# Using a RHD car in Spain



## Williams2 (Sep 15, 2013)

Just out of interest could Brits be overstaying their welcome in driving their Right-hand drive
cars in Spain. 
Suffice to say the Brit in question, namely myself has followed all the procedures in getting
my RHD British car matriculated onto Spanish plates, when required after arriving in Spain
plus all the other requirements; with the only inconvenience caused to Spanish drivers
is when they laugh, seeing me get out of the car to collect my parking ticket
( on the left hand side ) in the multistorey car parks.

I have been pondering whether to go green and buy a brand new LHD Electric
car or Hybrid/Biofuel car but have always been put off by the fact that they are all 
Automatic transmission cars. Therefore the only way to go green and still
be on Manual transmission, is to go for an Autogas car or what they call
LPG Cars in the UK but LPG seems to be in decline with most manufacturers
producing new Hybrid/Biofuel or Electric cars these days.


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## Simply Simon (Jan 18, 2019)

Williams2 said:


> Just out of interest could Brits be overstaying their welcome in driving their Right-hand drive
> cars in Spain.
> Suffice to say the Brit in question, namely myself has followed all the procedures in getting
> my RHD British car matriculated onto Spanish plates, when required after arriving in Spain
> ...


I am completely the other road round, I haven't driven a manual car for donkey's years. I can't be bothered with all that gear changing nonsense I like my car to do as much of the work as possible so auto, cruise control - and preferably the wife doing the driving suits me nicely. I can't wait for self-driving cars to do the steering for me on those rare occasions when I have to drive.


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## davexf (Jan 26, 2009)

Hola 

All "non-carbon" fuelled cars are in their infancy - battery technology has not yet advanced sufficiently. There is no solution just round the corner, technology will eventually catch up but I question if it will be in my life time. 

Half the "un-greenness" of a car is actually making it, driving it is the other half. Therefore it is better for the environment to keep old cars going at their most efficient for as long as possible 

Davexf


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

We drove our RHD Meriva here for about eight years before trading it in for an eco-friendly new version. There was a government scheme which contributed €2,000 to the price. Given the fuel savings, everything else being equal, it will have paid for itself in 8 years.

I'm not sure I'd want to drive an automatic round the town where I live, perched on a steep hill and full of narrow winding cobbled streets and anarchic Spaniards reversing down one-way streets in the wrong direction (they seem to think it's OK if you go backwards). But if I lived somewhere I bit less "picturesque" I'd love an electric car.

I think you're right about LPG going into decline, I'd worry about availability in the future.


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## Williams2 (Sep 15, 2013)

Alcalaina said:


> We drove our RHD Meriva here for about eight years before trading it in for an eco-friendly new version. There was a government scheme which contributed €2,000 to the price. Given the fuel savings, everything else being equal, it will have paid for itself in 8 years.
> 
> *I'm not sure I'd want to drive an automatic round the town where I live, perched on a steep hill and full of narrow winding cobbled streets* and anarchic Spaniards reversing down one-way streets in the wrong direction (they seem to think it's OK if you go backwards). But if I lived somewhere I bit less "picturesque" I'd love an electric car.
> 
> I think you're right about LPG going into decline, I'd worry about availability in the future.


Yes that was one of the BIG things putting me off automatic transmission cars in my neck of the
woods; as there's plenty of steep hills with narrow lanes & sharp bends in Asturias; that and the
fact that I've never driven Auto's much except when there's no other courtesy cars available.


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## Williams2 (Sep 15, 2013)

davexf said:


> Hola
> 
> All "non-carbon" fuelled cars are in their infancy - battery technology has not yet advanced sufficiently. There is no solution just round the corner, technology will eventually catch up but I question if it will be in my life time.
> 
> ...


Also to cut down on greenhouse gasses and reduce our impact on the environment - were told it's best 
for us to turn Vegan or Vegetarian !!

I wonder if thats the next big thing in environmentally friendly cars - motors that run on Veggie Power ?
Maybe even engines that run on Broccoli - that the kids tend to leave behind on the plate.


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## 95995 (May 16, 2010)

Alcalaina said:


> We drove our RHD Meriva here for about eight years before trading it in for an eco-friendly new version. There was a government scheme which contributed €2,000 to the price. Given the fuel savings, everything else being equal, it will have paid for itself in 8 years.
> 
> I'm not sure I'd want to drive an automatic round the town where I live, perched on a steep hill and full of narrow winding cobbled streets and anarchic Spaniards reversing down one-way streets in the wrong direction (they seem to think it's OK if you go backwards). But if I lived somewhere I bit less "picturesque" I'd love an electric car.
> 
> I think you're right about LPG going into decline, I'd worry about availability in the future.


Oh, at least hybrids are not nearly as bad as you clearly think - I don't have one but I am speaking from significant experience driving the both in Oz and even more so here in France including in equally difficult areas to those you describe. LPG is what it says it is (liquid petroleum gas), so not a wise longer term investment. Electric cars IMHO will not get you around all of Europe and most certainly not around all of France. If I were looking to change my high eco version petrol fuelled Citroen now, I would choose hybrid. Hybrids also significantly reduce your fuel usage, but check on how and when they re-charge (I suspect they are not all the same).


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## 95995 (May 16, 2010)

Brakes apparently contribute more to carbon emissions than fuel.

Re reducing meat eating or going vegetarian, take a look at the very recent IPCC report and the specific issues for Spain. But overall like it or not we are going to have to reduce meat consumption. That's actually not so hard for the Spanish, but if you want to continue to consume large amounts of meat you can expect prices to increase significantly in coming years. The G7, the EU, and individual countries are all looking at it and at the very least the EU is going to have to provide a response and take it into account in relation to future free trade agreements (including the one with Mexico and various Latin American countries).


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## 95995 (May 16, 2010)

There is certainly an argument for not just sending older cars to the scrap yard.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

I'm not sure that keep an old gas-guzzler on the road is in anyone's interest. Isn't virtually all of the scrap recycled in some way?

EH you are quite right about braking. When I learnt to drive 15 years ago it was all about driving economically, slowing down by taking your foot of the gas well in advance rather than using the brake at the last minute. But my OH, who's been driving for decades, hates the idea...

However, we should really be trying to reduce car usage. How many journeys are really necessary? I walk everywhere but I see locals here driving round the village on short trips that they could walk in 5 or 10 minutes, it's crazy. Especially when they drive to the gym!


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## 95995 (May 16, 2010)

Alcalaina said:


> *I'm not sure that keep an old gas-guzzler on the road is in anyone's interest. Isn't virtually all of the scrap recycled in some way?
> 
> *EH you are quite right about braking. When I learnt to drive 15 years ago it was all about driving economically, slowing down by taking your foot of the gas well in advance rather than using the brake at the last minute. But my OH, who's been driving for decades, hates the idea...
> 
> However, we should really be trying to reduce car usage. How many journeys are really necessary? I walk everywhere but I see locals here driving round the village on short trips that they could walk in 5 or 10 minutes, it's crazy. Especially when they drive to the gym!


It seems that there are issues with the recycling, so IMHO it's open to further consideration. In any case, we definitely should not assume that recycling is good per se, considering that it involves carbon emissions. I'm all for recycling, but it does need to be done intelligently.

I hardly use my car at all now, and even then it's really only to avoid carrying things that I can no longer manage otherwise - that's now a lot of things given my health, so I do as much as possible in a single trip and then unload gradually over several days (even one of those wheeled shopping trolleys, and I do have one, has become very difficult) - it seems that physically I am not ageing well


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## Simply Simon (Jan 18, 2019)

EverHopeful said:


> It seems that there are issues with the recycling, so IMHO it's open to further consideration. In any case, we definitely should not assume that recycling is good per se, considering that it involves carbon emissions. I'm all for recycling, but it does need to be done intelligently.
> 
> I hardly use my car at all now, and even then it's really only to avoid carrying things that I can no longer manage otherwise - that's now a lot of things given my health, so I do as much as possible in a single trip and then unload gradually over several days (even one of those wheeled shopping trolleys, and I do have one, has become very difficult) - it seems that physically I am not ageing well


Sorry to hear you're not ageing well, it's a pain in the backside getting old. I'm doing everything I can to fight back, but I get really frustrated when I can't open a jar - do they put the lids on extra tight in Spain or am I falling to bits? We don't use our car unless we need to, once a week we buy beer and bottles of fizzy water - yeah I know, plastic but I can't live without a nice cold fizz and beer is non-negotiable! Walking or cycling to the shops / market makes the food taste better.


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## davexf (Jan 26, 2009)

EverHopeful said:


> Hybrids also significantly reduce your fuel usage, but check on how and when they re-charge (I suspect they are not all the same).


Hola 

While my Toyota was being serviced, I checked on the Hybrids on display - you cannot charge them except through driving them! There is nowhere to plug them in !!! 

Davexf


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## 95995 (May 16, 2010)

davexf said:


> Hola
> 
> While my Toyota was being serviced, I checked on the Hybrids on display - you cannot charge them except through driving them! There is nowhere to plug them in !!!
> 
> Davexf


There is a model (not Toyota) that I saw advertised that can also be plugged in - it is expensive of course, otherwise they charge whilst driving. But certainly the Hybrid vehicles I have driven all charge whilst driving, which is a blessing here in France, even more so for those like me who live in apartments and for various reasons cannot charge standard electric vehicles even at home. Renault do electric vehicles with a removable battery that I could plug in at home, you can even rent the battery though doing it that way is very expensive and if you are driving longer distances you need two batteries. Charging electric vehicles in a lot of France is not easy, yet there is a significant emphasis here on buying electric vehicles which are hellishly expensive even if you are entitled to a government rebate. Right now you are primarily paying for companies to further develop the research.


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## 95995 (May 16, 2010)

Hybrids switch to fuel in certain conditions or when the battery is running too low.


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## davexf (Jan 26, 2009)

Hola 

In the UK many company cars are hybrids because the taxes are better for the users. The BBC ran a program on how the vast majority never ever charge the batteries except when driving thereby negating the advantages of a hybrid. 

The point is that by charging overnight the car is greener than by using fossil fuels to charge the battery. 

Davexf


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

EverHopeful said:


> Electric cars IMHO will not get you around all of Europe and most certainly not around all of France. If I were looking to change my high eco version petrol fuelled Citroen now, I would choose hybrid. Hybrids also significantly reduce your fuel usage, but check on how and when they re-charge (I suspect they are not all the same).


 Apparently this is the map to use when looking for point for recharging in Spain/ Europe. There are actually a lot in Spain, but not enough to make an unplanned journey in many areas.
https://www.electromaps.com/


People do argue that electric cars are not The Answer to the problems of pollution and or Co2 emissions as of course the electricity has to be produced somehow. However as far as noise pollution goes they are great, in fact they are so quiet they produce their own problems. They make so little noise people are unaware of their presence. Our car (Kio Rio) is also very quiet even though its not hybrid or electric and in residential areas we have to be very patient as people will walk in groups in the road and just don't hear the car behind them.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Williams2 said:


> Also to cut down on greenhouse gasses and reduce our impact on the environment - were told it's best
> for us to turn Vegan or Vegetarian !!


 And it is. Using land to keep animals to produce meat on the present scale and on the scale predicted for the future is yet another thing that is unsustainable.
However, people will not change their driving or eating habits until governments step in and prohibit this that and the other. Sad, but true.
In Madrid just recently the local government introduced a restricted driving scheme aimed at reducing the city's pollution among other things. The city centre was only open to public transport, residents and eco vehicles.When the new government came in however they wanted to overturn this. I'm not sure what's happening at the moment, but at one point the sale of electric and hybrid vehicles was rising like crazy, but only because restrictions had been put in place.
Oh, and people say that for these schemes to work there needs to be better public transport. From the people I know in the companies where I work, few people are interested in public transport and they wouldn't take it if the was a stop outside their door and it was FREE! What they want is comfort and to not have to think. Get in the car and go.


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## Juan C (Sep 4, 2017)

Just to note

The abolishion of the ban on cars in Madrid, promised by the government in their election manifesto, remains in force following a public demonstration

PS just to keep my post almost on thread. That applies to RHD cars as well !!!!


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Juan C said:


> Just to note
> 
> The abolishion of the ban on cars in Madrid, promised by the government in their election manifesto, remains in force following a public demonstration
> 
> PS just to keep my post almost on thread. That applies to RHD cars as well !!!!


Sorry but are you saying that the ban or its abolition is still in force?


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## Juan C (Sep 4, 2017)

Ban remains in force 

https://www.citylab.com/transportat...ap-city-politics-mayor-court-decision/594487/


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## Simply Simon (Jan 18, 2019)

I always thought that a replacement battery service would be a better idea, like the gas canisters. If folks could just drive into the service station and swap out their depleted battery for a freshly charged one many more people would go for electric cars.


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## 95995 (May 16, 2010)

Lots of places in Australia where there recharging points are in abundance and it is free (they are charged by solar energy). 

I believe there are places (can't remember where) that are trialling just swapping the battery free of charge.

So there is quite a bit of variation across countries within and outside the EU.

What annoys me is the really significant push to change to electric cars in France (which for the govt is all about Renault of course - the business, not necessarily the French economy), but very little investment in these sorts of options. Perhaps Macron could tell Renault to work on that


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## VFR (Dec 23, 2009)

Alcalaina said:


> We drove our RHD Meriva here for about eight years before trading it in for an eco-friendly new version. There was a government scheme which contributed €2,000 to the price. Given the fuel savings, everything else being equal, it will have paid for itself in 8 years.
> 
> I'm not sure I'd want to drive an automatic round the town where I live, perched on a steep hill and full of narrow winding cobbled streets and anarchic Spaniards reversing down one-way streets in the wrong direction (they seem to think it's OK if you go backwards). But if I lived somewhere I bit less "picturesque" I'd love an electric car.
> 
> I think you're right about LPG going into decline, I'd worry about availability in the future.


An automatic (especially a modern one) would be far better than a manual in the place you describe.


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## VFR (Dec 23, 2009)

Williams2 said:


> Just out of interest could Brits be overstaying their welcome in driving their Right-hand drive
> cars in Spain.
> Suffice to say the Brit in question, namely myself has followed all the procedures in getting
> my RHD British car matriculated onto Spanish plates, when required after arriving in Spain
> ...


Electric is the future & if you can charge at home (only then & off peak) then this is the sensible option.
Maintenance is a fraction of what an ICE car is so a big saving there.
Road tax 0 ....?
Fuel cost per Km way lower.
Battery's giving well over 150.000km's without any major degradation.
Purchase depreciation is non issue on many EV's.

Test drive a few & you may well be amazed.


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## northernlights (Aug 2, 2019)

Williams2 said:


> Just out of interest could Brits be overstaying their welcome in driving their Right-hand drive
> cars in Spain.
> Suffice to say the Brit in question, namely myself has followed all the procedures in getting
> my RHD British car matriculated onto Spanish plates, when required after arriving in Spain
> ...


''have always been put off by the fact that they are all 
Automatic transmission cars'',,,,, automatic transmission systems are ideal when connected to an electric motor as electric motors deliver their power in a linear manner IE they produce as much power at low revs as the do at high revs, think diesel/electric trains, they have an internal combustion engine connected to a generator and it is the electrical power that is the motive force to propel the train.


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## Barriej (Jul 23, 2012)

VFR said:


> Purchase depreciation is non issue on many EV's.


Err.

Think not. At the moment the depreciation of electric and hybrid vehicles is a lot higher than their carbon based versions.

see here for example.
https://www.insurethegap.com/articl...c-cars-varies-greatly-across-different-models

Its also be proved that at present producing the battery packs causes more CO2 than any other type of fuel. Also disposing of the cells at the end of their live will cost a fortune 

This article makes for good reading.
https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2017...lectric-cars-carbon-sustainable-power-energy/

Im all for alternatives to petrol but we have to be careful about which route to go down.

Just think of the current issues over power generation and then put 30 million electric cars in the uk all being switched on to charge at 5pm as well as the TV, kettle, washing machine. We hardly have enough power to cope with use in the winter here. 

I don't know why all electric cars don't have solar cells fitted into the bonnet, roof etc so they can harvest 'free' power whilst parked and driven outside. Makes more sense to me to do it this way than to plug in at home. 

I can't charge at home as we live on the second floor and a long extension lead won't work. Although as I own a 27 year old car anyway. Plugging it in might not be a good idea anyway...


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## VFR (Dec 23, 2009)

Barriej said:


> Err.
> 
> Think not. At the moment the depreciation of electric and hybrid vehicles is a lot higher than their carbon based versions.
> 
> ...


You forgot to Google the other points i made.


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## Barriej (Jul 23, 2012)

VFR said:


> You forgot to Google the other points i made.


Couldn't be bothered as the others were correct...


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## Williams2 (Sep 15, 2013)

Barriej said:


> I can't charge at home as we live on the second floor and a long extension lead won't work. Although as I own a 27 year old car anyway. Plugging it in might not be a good idea anyway...


Yes Electric cars that need the overnight recharge from you home is ok for the UK in
areas like Suburbia but not really practical for apartment dwellers like you & me in Spain;
and no doubt for many Spanish towns and cities, where people are brought up on
apartment block living. Unless of course, the apartment comes with its own car park
space & adjacent lockup ( with electric point ) in the apartment blocks underground
car park.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Williams2 said:


> Yes Electric cars that need the overnight recharge from you home is ok for the UK in
> areas like Suburbia but not really practical for apartment dwellers like you & me in Spain;
> and no doubt for many Spanish towns and cities, where people are brought up on
> apartment block living. Unless of course, the apartment comes with its own car park
> ...


 There are/ will be public points for recharging in petrol stations, car parks and even in the street. According to this document there are 39 public charging points as of July 2018. How many have been maintained and are actually working is another matter!

https://www.madrid.es/UnidadesDesce...2PtosRecarga/Ficheros/201806EstrucRecarga.pdf
Madrid had to up its game when restricted access to the central area came in.
Of course, this will take years to become a real life option in this country and others. It will only happen when the government gets behind it and restricts ICE cars and gives rewards to electric car owners.


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## Williams2 (Sep 15, 2013)

Pesky Wesky said:


> There are/ will be public points for recharging in petrol stations, car parks and even in the street. According to this document there are 39 public charging points as of July 2018. How many have been maintained and are actually working is another matter!


Thanks - although the 24 million dollar question is how long you have to wait for your
Electric car to recharge at these petrol stations, car park recharge points etc.

If it's as quick as topping up your car with petrol, then all well and good, if its longer 
than that and your talking about 30 minutes or more then here's the rub.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

I remember reading an inspiring article by our former PSOE president Jose Luis Rodríguez Zapatero when I first moved here, about how Spain would be a world leader in renewable energy by 2020 and the surpous power generated by wind turbines and solar farms during the day would bu used to charge electric vehicles overnight. I thought, this is the country I want to live in!

Sadly, although all this is technically possible, politics got in the way.


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## northernlights (Aug 2, 2019)

When you consider that electric cars charge up around 12anps or more I can see a lot of electric car owners having problems charging up at home whilst using the supply for normal day to day use due to the limited potencia (5.5kw) that the electricity companies impose on domestic properties.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

I'm thinking of putting my roof to better use. We currently have a solar panel for [very] hot water but I have 42 sq. m. facing roughly SSW that could be used for solar electricity - just need the price for storage to come down a bit.


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## northernlights (Aug 2, 2019)

Alcalaina said:


> I remember reading an inspiring article by our former PSOE president Jose Luis Rodríguez Zapatero when I first moved here, about how Spain would be a world leader in renewable energy by 2020 and the surpous power generated by wind turbines and solar farms during the day would bu used to charge electric vehicles overnight. I thought, this is the country I want to live in!
> 
> Sadly, although all this is technically possible, politics got in the way.


i remember all through the 60's and 70's being told that due to nuclear power being so cheap that it will not be worth installing meters lol.


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## Williams2 (Sep 15, 2013)

northernlights said:


> When you consider that electric cars charge up around 12anps or more I can see a lot of electric car owners having problems charging up at home whilst using the supply for normal day to day use due to the limited potencia (5.5kw) that the electricity companies impose on domestic properties.


That's true, there's the extra cost to factor in when it comes to the potencia, the domestic usage allowance
imposed by Spanish utility companies. When recharging your car overnight, at home.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

northernlights said:


> When you consider that electric cars charge up around 12anps or more I can see a lot of electric car owners having problems charging up at home whilst using the supply for normal day to day use due to the limited potencia (5.5kw) that the electricity companies impose on domestic properties.


You can pay for an increase in the Potencia BUT where the electric companies my impose a limit is if the wiring is not suitable. Our house was rewired when we bought it, but the potencia was just the basic 3.3 kW. When we tried to increase the potencia we couldn't increase to more than 4.5 because the internal wiring isn't suitable so we have a limit to what we can have on at the same time.


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## northernlights (Aug 2, 2019)

baldilocks said:


> You can pay for an increase in the Potencia BUT where the electric companies my impose a limit is if the wiring is not suitable. Our house was rewired when we bought it, but the potencia was just the basic 3.3 kW. When we tried to increase the potencia we couldn't increase to more than 4.5 because the internal wiring isn't suitable so we have a limit to what we can have on at the same time.


Technically speaking the only wires/cables that might/would need upgrading after an increase in potencia are the supply 'tails' from the meter to your consumer unit as after that all the individual circuits should be 'fused' according to their csa, but who am i to ask i was only a mere electrical test engineer for a good few years. But like you say they do insist on a full 'boletin' before upgrade.


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## 95995 (May 16, 2010)

Alcalaina said:


> I remember reading an inspiring article by our former PSOE president Jose Luis Rodríguez Zapatero when I first moved here, about how Spain would be a world leader in renewable energy by 2020 and the surpous power generated by wind turbines and solar farms during the day would bu used to charge electric vehicles overnight. I thought, this is the country I want to live in!
> 
> Sadly, although all this is technically possible, politics got in the way.


Politics always seems to get in the way. One of the issues I have with electric cars in France relates to nuclear energy and electric cars just being another driver to continue down that path :mad2:

And now they are looking to privatise the dams, thus hydro-electricity :mad2::mad2::mad2:


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## northernlights (Aug 2, 2019)

baldilocks said:


> I'm thinking of putting my roof to better use. We currently have a solar panel for [very] hot water but I have 42 sq. m. facing roughly SSW that could be used for solar electricity - just need the price for storage to come down a bit.


Do you remember a couple of years back when the Spanish government tried to 'tax the sun' by charging people with solar panels, and i believe they wanted you to 'feed' into the national grid any surplus electricity you produced for free.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

northernlights said:


> Do you remember a couple of years back when the Spanish government tried to 'tax the sun' by charging people with solar panels, and i believe they wanted you to 'feed' into the national grid any surplus electricity you produced for free.


 Yes, I remember. There were threads about solar energy on the forum.

The news now is more encouraging. However, as the government is not yet formed, politics might well get in the way again.
https://elpais.com/elpais/2019/02/05/inenglish/1549357123_580894.html


> Solar power is paving the way for a rise in self-generated energy in Spain. Installed capacity grew for the second year running in 2018 with a 94% hike on 2017 figures – and 90% of that was self-generated.
> José Donoso, UNEF managing director
> 
> Installed solar power in Spain passed the 5,000-MW mark of installed capacity last year, indicating a decade of vertiginous growth. Despite a slowdown in 2012, solar energy is once again powering ahead with both companies and homes installing the technology in a bid to curb costs.
> ...


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## Rooinek (Aug 7, 2019)

Does anyone know if the headlights must be changed from right hand drive to left hand and if buying and fitting a used set from a breaker is acceptable? Thanks for any advice.


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## Barriej (Jul 23, 2012)

Rooinek said:


> Does anyone know if the headlights must be changed from right hand drive to left hand and if buying and fitting a used set from a breaker is acceptable? Thanks for any advice.


Yes and you have to check the reversing and rear fog as if only one of each are fitted they will be the wrong way round.

So you will have to replace both rear clusters as well.


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