# One Year Stay in Portugal



## swedeinus

Hello everyone.

I'm a Swedish-Portuguese expat living in the US, and have for some time considered a move back to Europe (grew up in Sweden). For a year I'm hoping to take my two sons to live somewhere in the south (Portugal, Spain, Italy or Greece). My husband will stay here and keep working, paying off some debt before eventually moving all of us to either Ireland or England. So, I won't be looking for work myself (I'm a stay-at-home-mom here), nor will I need to find a school for my kids since we're homeschoolers. 

I'm wondering what towns would be good to stay in. I like our time there to be about 1 part vacation and 2 parts living the 'Portuguese' way (getting to know the locals, cooking their food etc). So, this means I'm not looking for a traditional holiday spot (like certain areas of Algarve), nor am I looking for anything too out of the way. But rather a living/working town where the locals outnumber the tourists, with a lot of charm.

Some things that are important to us:

*Being able to shop for food at local open-air markets and specialty food shops like butchers etc. I want local meat and local produce. I don't want to live somewhere where our only option is a supermarket. It's a plus if open market shopping is the norm with the locals.
*Close to natural areas for hiking/wildlife observation.
*A community that is at least somewhat open to foreigners (I'm half Portuguese but don't speak the language fluently), but most of all very friendly and enjoy a laid-back lifestyle.
*Children play outside in the streets/parks/neighborhoods. Not like in the US where kids are either too busy with afterschool activities or parents are afraid to let the kids out of sight. Children are playful, not jaded like kids here in the US (seems odd perhaps, but generally comparing American to Mexican kids here for example you see a marked contrast in playfulness/boisterousness). Someone told me Portuguese children do play outside but things change fast. 
Because we're homeschoolers, this is important to us as I want them to be exposed to other kids outside of school. 
*We like to be close to the coast, close enough to a beach (swimmable at least in the summer) to where we can either take public transportation or walk/bike. 
*Lower cost of living and decent availability of rentals. I want to rent long-term but am having the hardest time finding quotes online as long-term is apparently considered a week or two. Any sites you suggest? Portuguese ones are fine. I'm not looking to arrange anything while in the US, but need to get an estimate for different regions. Would need either a large fully equipped studio or one bedroom. We don't spend a lot of time inside so don't need lots of space, just a fully equipped kitchen. 
*A lively atmosphere with family-friendly events, festas. Not a night-clubbing scene, nor a sleepy town.

I would love to be in Algarve for the climate and more laid-back lifestyle, but I'm wondering whether a no/less touristy town there would be too 'out-of-the-way'. I've read a little about Tavira, though it has lots of tourists, apparently it has preserved much of its traditional way of life? It seems large, so perhaps a village/hamlet nearby. 
I'm also interested in Viana Do Castelo (or other charming towns in the Minho) as that's where my father's family is from. 

For groceries (mainly meat and veggies, very few condiments; we cook everything from scratch), does anyone have a few examples of prices (say, a kilo of stew meat, and a kilo of potatoes), again from shopping at markets/butchers? Any information about public transportation would be nice too, such as types available, reliability, frequency and cost. 

Also, a few remaining general questions, all applicable to small/medium sized towns:
*When do kids get off shcool?
*What is a typical day for a typical Portuguese family?
*In regards to learning the language, what can I expect? I've been to other places where people don't have patience with struggling beginners and simply switch to English (arghh). My understanding is that English is not widely understood--even with the younger population? My skills are currently hovering around beginners/intermediate. 

If you have a suggestion for a suitable place based on my 'ideals', let me know what the general 'feel'/atmosphere of the place is. How people are like etc.

Muito Obrigada!


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## silvers

Hi Swede,
Welcome to our nuthouse. That is a lot of questions you have there. Do you by any chance use Skype? It is just going to be a lot quicker talking to you than answering everything on here.
James


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## silvers

Visit São Martinho do Porto



This is a very beautiful area, take a look at the amenities. Also search youtube for carnival Nazare as that is the next main beach. You have many smaller communities around here, you can be as "touristy" as you like, or you can choose to melt into the Portuguese background. It really is your choice.


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## Mr.Blueskies

"Caldas da Rainha !


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## mitz

Look to the Silver Coast as mentioned above by people living here.

São Martinho do Porto is a super place for swimming ( with its protected bay ) and walks and cycling, with some local shops and a small market and close to larger towns like Caldas da rainha and Alcobaça with its beautiful monastery.
Children can play in the park late at night with relaxed parents nearby, I have never felt so safe, it's cosy if you know what I mean.

Our kids have got on great with the local kids who are outgoing and friendly in the main.

Nazaré is larger, with a nice beach but it is not always safe to swim there. It has a large weekly open air market and also the indoor market selling fresh fish from the fishing fleet in the harbour there and local meat, veg, cheese, bread, jam, fruit, cakes etc.

We can get pork on the bone for about €4 kg, reasonable mince for €3 kg, chicken about the same. Good beef is expensive as anywhere.

Our kids start school at 9 am and could finish at 3.30 pm but they stay for extra activities until 5.30 pm. They then like to play with their friends in the yard there so we pick them up about 5.50-6.00. The staff leave at 6.00 pm so they can't stay longer.

The language is hard for us grownups, sounds like you've got a good headstart though.
There are plenty to help you out here if you need it, I always give it a go though before they help me out.
It's nice to try!

A lot of Portugal still remains unspoilt, I think you will have a hard choice deciding where to stay.

Good luck,

Nick.


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## silvers

Casa - Apartamento para aluguer Leiria


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## swedeinus

Thanks a bunch everyone. 

Nuthouse? Sounds exciting!

Silvers, no I don't have Skype. Yes, a lot of questions....

That rental site is great. I'm assuming so, but do you know whether the rentals are listing their monthly rates? It seems so cheap, I'm hoping it's not weekly.

I've been researching Sao Martinho, it looks great.


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## silvers

In my opinion, those are monthly charges.


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## swedeinus

great--that is a steal compared to rentals here. good to know i'll be saving on that front. 
does anyone know what a heating bill might run? Just a very rough estimate...


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## silvers

Heating depends on which system you will be using. We have electric heaters and our electricity bill is around 70 euros a month, which is averaged over a year. I believe that gas central heating can be quite expensive to run.


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## swedeinus

how big is your place? 

thanks.


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## silvers

It's a 3 bedroom villa.


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## mitz

Having some form of heating over the winter period is a necessity, unless you are quite hardy.
But central heating is not. All we use for heating the house is a recuperador ( log fire with fan ) which is adequate. We used about €320 worth of logs over the winter.
Hot water is supplied by a combi boiler. Mains gas is priced reasonably, we use it to cook every day and we all shower or bath every day and we spend @ €30 a month.


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## southpark

*Olhao*



swedeinus said:


> Hello everyone.
> 
> I'm a Swedish-Portuguese expat living in the US, and have for some time considered a move back to Europe (grew up in Sweden). For a year I'm hoping to take my two sons to live somewhere in the south (Portugal, Spain, Italy or Greece). My husband will stay here and keep working, paying off some debt before eventually moving all of us to either Ireland or England. So, I won't be looking for work myself (I'm a stay-at-home-mom here), nor will I need to find a school for my kids since we're homeschoolers.
> 
> I'm wondering what towns would be good to stay in. I like our time there to be about 1 part vacation and 2 parts living the 'Portuguese' way (getting to know the locals, cooking their food etc). So, this means I'm not looking for a traditional holiday spot (like certain areas of Algarve), nor am I looking for anything too out of the way. But rather a living/working town where the locals outnumber the tourists, with a lot of charm.
> 
> Some things that are important to us:
> 
> *Being able to shop for food at local open-air markets and specialty food shops like butchers etc. I want local meat and local produce. I don't want to live somewhere where our only option is a supermarket. It's a plus if open market shopping is the norm with the locals.
> *Close to natural areas for hiking/wildlife observation.
> *A community that is at least somewhat open to foreigners (I'm half Portuguese but don't speak the language fluently), but most of all very friendly and enjoy a laid-back lifestyle.
> *Children play outside in the streets/parks/neighborhoods. Not like in the US where kids are either too busy with afterschool activities or parents are afraid to let the kids out of sight. Children are playful, not jaded like kids here in the US (seems odd perhaps, but generally comparing American to Mexican kids here for example you see a marked contrast in playfulness/boisterousness). Someone told me Portuguese children do play outside but things change fast.
> Because we're homeschoolers, this is important to us as I want them to be exposed to other kids outside of school.
> *We like to be close to the coast, close enough to a beach (swimmable at least in the summer) to where we can either take public transportation or walk/bike.
> *Lower cost of living and decent availability of rentals. I want to rent long-term but am having the hardest time finding quotes online as long-term is apparently considered a week or two. Any sites you suggest? Portuguese ones are fine. I'm not looking to arrange anything while in the US, but need to get an estimate for different regions. Would need either a large fully equipped studio or one bedroom. We don't spend a lot of time inside so don't need lots of space, just a fully equipped kitchen.
> *A lively atmosphere with family-friendly events, festas. Not a night-clubbing scene, nor a sleepy town.
> 
> I would love to be in Algarve for the climate and more laid-back lifestyle, but I'm wondering whether a no/less touristy town there would be too 'out-of-the-way'. I've read a little about Tavira, though it has lots of tourists, apparently it has preserved much of its traditional way of life? It seems large, so perhaps a village/hamlet nearby.
> I'm also interested in Viana Do Castelo (or other charming towns in the Minho) as that's where my father's family is from.
> 
> For groceries (mainly meat and veggies, very few condiments; we cook everything from scratch), does anyone have a few examples of prices (say, a kilo of stew meat, and a kilo of potatoes), again from shopping at markets/butchers? Any information about public transportation would be nice too, such as types available, reliability, frequency and cost.
> 
> Also, a few remaining general questions, all applicable to small/medium sized towns:
> *When do kids get off shcool?
> *What is a typical day for a typical Portuguese family?
> *In regards to learning the language, what can I expect? I've been to other places where people don't have patience with struggling beginners and simply switch to English (arghh). My understanding is that English is not widely understood--even with the younger population? My skills are currently hovering around beginners/intermediate.
> 
> If you have a suggestion for a suitable place based on my 'ideals', let me know what the general 'feel'/atmosphere of the place is. How people are like etc.
> 
> Muito Obrigada!


I would suggest Olhao which is very close to Faro, has a thriving fishing trade, is as yet relatively crime free and has two huge markets with an amazing range of seafood, fruits and vegetables on offer. It is a relaxed town, not fully 'tainted' by tourism fall-out.


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## swedeinus

southpark said:


> I would suggest Olhao which is very close to Faro, has a thriving fishing trade, is as yet relatively crime free and has two huge markets with an amazing range of seafood, fruits and vegetables on offer. It is a relaxed town, not fully 'tainted' by tourism fall-out.


I'll take that as a sign, southpark! Just yesterday I was reading about it and thinking it might be worth to check out. Any website in particular that you recommend?
Do you know anything about rentals there? Just don't want to land somewhere where there are only holiday short term rentals...
I'm looking into Tavira as well--have you been there? The books say it's got tourists but still remains a town of its own (the beach being a bit away I guess helps). 

Thanks!


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## southpark

swedeinus said:


> I'll take that as a sign, southpark! Just yesterday I was reading about it and thinking it might be worth to check out. Any website in particular that you recommend?
> Do you know anything about rentals there? Just don't want to land somewhere where there are only holiday short term rentals...
> I'm looking into Tavira as well--have you been there? The books say it's got tourists but still remains a town of its own (the beach being a bit away I guess helps).
> 
> Thanks!


Tavira is nice too, but very rapidly developing a tourist outlook. A couple of new golf courses, new hotels...even an Irish Bar. Yes, the beach is (like Olhao) a ferry trip, but it still gets more tourists than Olhao. Olhao's seafront is nicer - Tavira's 'front' in effect spans both banks of a river. The Portuguese themselves tend to choose Olhao for their holiday, so as to avoid the traditional non-Portuguese tourists.
As far as long term rental is concerned, you shouldn't have too much of a problem. I myself have a few properties in Olhao and Tavira, and I regularly let them out on long term rental - albeit usually for 6 months (winter) so that I can avail of the higher summer rates. Anything else I can help on, just shout.


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## swedeinus

southpark said:


> Tavira is nice too, but very rapidly developing a tourist outlook. A couple of new golf courses, new hotels...even an Irish Bar. Yes, the beach is (like Olhao) a ferry trip, but it still gets more tourists than Olhao. Olhao's seafront is nicer - Tavira's 'front' in effect spans both banks of a river. The Portuguese themselves tend to choose Olhao for their holiday, so as to avoid the traditional non-Portuguese tourists.
> As far as long term rental is concerned, you shouldn't have too much of a problem. I myself have a few properties in Olhao and Tavira, and I regularly let them out on long term rental - albeit usually for 6 months (winter) so that I can avail of the higher summer rates. Anything else I can help on, just shout.


I've looked into Olhao and it sounds great, at the moment at least. I like that its economy isn't entirely focused on tourism. However, I just read that the town is rebuilding its marina with a 5 star hotel and setting up a shopping mall on its main road. do you know of these developments and how/if they may change Olhao for the worse?
how much on average does a one bedroom apartment run there? I'm thinking i will head elsewhere for the summer so it'd be a 6 to 9 month stay (starting this coming fall). where are rentals located within the town?
Oh, and how are the locals like? Any young families around? 

Thanks!


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## southpark

swedeinus said:


> I've looked into Olhao and it sounds great, at the moment at least. I like that its economy isn't entirely focused on tourism. However, I just read that the town is rebuilding its marina with a 5 star hotel and setting up a shopping mall on its main road. do you know of these developments and how/if they may change Olhao for the worse?
> how much on average does a one bedroom apartment run there? I'm thinking i will head elsewhere for the summer so it'd be a 6 to 9 month stay (starting this coming fall). where are rentals located within the town?
> Oh, and how are the locals like? Any young families around?
> 
> Thanks!


Firstly Swedeinus, the language is pretty difficult but most people speak a little or a lot of english and unlike the spanish and french, are prepared to do so.
Apartments are available all around Olhao including Fuseta, Quelfes and Moncarapacho, if you want to stay 'out of town'.
yes, i know about the new shopping mall - i have rented out two of my apartments to building staff involved in it. It can only be good for the town.
And the new marina is just that, Olhao already has two marinas. The Marina Village complex is very tasteful and like the Hotel, will only enhance the town, in my view.
Bear in mind that all the 'tourism' development is confined mainly to the waterfront area. Because Olhao sits astride the Ria Formosa Nature Reserve, the local council (camara) go out of their way to protect the ecosphere.
From here on in, no building can exceed 4 stories under new planning restrictions.
Lots of young families, lots of retired fisherfolk too. Locals mix well with visitors - I know, I have experienced it first hand. Cheers.


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## swedeinus

Thanks again for your information. 
Oh, the language is the least of my worries, I love Portuguese and have studied it in the past, along with other Roman languages. How's the accent in Algarve though? 
I was thinking more about renting inside town, preferrably very central, as I like to be able to walk most places, such as grocery shopping etc. Are rentals available in the centre and what is the difference in cost compared to outlying locations?
Is the town compact or spread out? Any sprawl. 
So, I'm a little confused, some of the guidebooks I've read describe Olhao as a charming, hidden gem whereas other books say the complete opposite, that there is only a small 'old town' left in the very centre and most of town is dreary and modern. I'm not looking for a place with lots of sights and such, but I do like atmosphere. 

About Tavira, how is it like there in the fall, winter and spring?

Thanks.


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## silvers

Some pictures for you.
Olhao - Google Image Search


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## southpark

swedeinus said:


> Thanks again for your information.
> Oh, the language is the least of my worries, I love Portuguese and have studied it in the past, along with other Roman languages. How's the accent in Algarve though?
> I was thinking more about renting inside town, preferrably very central, as I like to be able to walk most places, such as grocery shopping etc. Are rentals available in the centre and what is the difference in cost compared to outlying locations?
> Is the town compact or spread out? Any sprawl.
> So, I'm a little confused, some of the guidebooks I've read describe Olhao as a charming, hidden gem whereas other books say the complete opposite, that there is only a small 'old town' left in the very centre and most of town is dreary and modern. I'm not looking for a place with lots of sights and such, but I do like atmosphere.
> 
> About Tavira, how is it like there in the fall, winter and spring?
> 
> Thanks.


The town is relatively compact Sweeinus. But of course, it has outlying residential areas, mostly north of the N125, the old main road which literally bisects the town.
No problem getting a property for rent in the centre of the Old Town or indeed, close to the seafront. And no way is Olhao dreary or modern - it is a traditional old fishing port and whilst a number of residential bloks have gone up recently, they are mostly well away from the seafront/old town.
Regards, Southpark.


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## mickybob

Hi Swedeinus, 
I am wondering why you would want to move to Pgl, then, after a year move to Ireland or UK. I live in Ireland so would like to let you know how things stand here. Unemployment is at the moment 11%, the government admits that it will rise by years end too 15%, us in the real world expect 15% or more. What does your husband do? I do hope that it is not in construction, as that ha collapsed and there is NO work there. IT, not a lot there either. If you can tell me what he works as, I will try to find out what the job situation is in that area. 
the one good thing is that if you are buying a house, the house prices have gone through the floor, and are set to go still lower ( sorry to those still trying to sell). So, you are in a good position there. 
Health care. As such, we dont have a good one. It cost about €50 to go to the doctor, unless you have a Medical Card, and they are not easy to get, means tessted im afraid.Then you pay for medication. The heath service are closing hospitals down, just ask those in Nenagh and Ennis, and suspected, in Clonmel where I live. They have scrapped the cervical cancer vaccine for young girls, it would cost €10 million a year to impliment, but found over €150 million to pay consultants more. So that will explaine thier out look on health care. 
Schooling, they are making 1000 Special Needs Teachers redundant. The schooling is good(ish) compared to UK. But, they are cutting back all the time. As for home schooling, i have heard of no-one doing it, I will try to find out if you can do it. 
The facilities in Ireland are not as good as the UK. You do get a bit more for your money there.
Think carfully befor you make your final choice, Ireland has some great sceanery, (Im a photographer, I have seen a lot of it) but dont listen to the romantic images you will hear of the place. It can be nice, but the unemployment situation is getting worse and will do so for some time, just like the rest of europe. Make sure your husband has a job to come to. And, if you do come, I hope you dont mind the cold, it isn't a warm country.
I will help you with questions on Ireland if I can.


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## swedeinus

Well, I guess it's a bit complicated. I'm mainly going to Portugal for a year as a long-ish vacation and to give myself an opportunity to get to know the country and people--my father is from there. Meanwhile my hubby will work in the States about 80 hours a week, he now works 72 hours just so we can pay debt and maintain a decent way of life. We're tired of life here in the States for a myriad reasons, but what justifies me going to Portugal for year while my husband is away from home most of his waking time, is that we'd be saving money AND I would make use of our freedom as homeshcoolers by following my passion for travel and foreign cultures. We pay an enormous amount of money on just transportation (roughly 750 bucks a month, depending on gas prices which luckily now have gone down by 50%). I never needed a car in Sweden. Renting is very expensive here as well. 

But like I said, there are so many reasons for us wanting to leave the US. 
Now, to your question, why move to the north after being in the south? Well, I figured with the language barrier, my husband would have a very hard time finding work in Portugal. Though obviously there's currently a world-wide recession, we thought his chances of finding job in ireland or Uk would be higher than Portuga. We could stay in the States until we figure out a way to make a living in Portugal but I have a feeling that would take a long time and it seems that living in Ireland/UK would be no worse than living in the US, only over there I'm much closer to Portugal and equally important, Sweden as that's where I'm from and for the past 10 years I have not been able to see my family frequently at all (every 2-3 years at best).
While I do like some qualities of Ireland, such as culture and yes, scenery, I know that much has changed there so obviously it's not going to be paradise. But as I said formerly, Ireland or Uk seem a better bet than the US for us at the moment, considering mostly location and language. 

My husband actually works in the health care field! He's worked at group homes for clients with DD for the past 6 years. He's been lucky here as layoffs have not affected his line of work. There are people with disabilities the world over so we're hoping by spring of 2011 there should be some work opportunities for him. The recession will end sometime, probably sooner than one might think. In fact, I'm not even considering the recession so much, since no one knows what the future will bring. We can always make alterations to our plans. And we're still open to just bypassing the Isles altogether if we can find a way to make Portugal work right away. We're looking into the possibility of living in an intentional community there, as that sort of arrangement has attracted us for a number of years. We're also working out ideas for homebased business and if that results in anything feasible, location may be irrelevant too. 

We moved to Oregon at a time when they had the highest unemployment in the country, but we still found a way. I believe it's so anywhere, it's whatever you make of it. My husband is open to a variety of work opportunities, in OR he worked in a factory. Didn't pay for luxuries, but we got by--we're pretty low-maintenance.

Yes, actually there's a fair number of homeschoolers in Ireland, I belong to a yahoo list and just their number is 150 families, though that obviously does not account for the national estimated number of families of homeschool, which is higher. However, we're a minority here in the US as well, and we're used to it (comments, disbelief etc don't bother us much). 
I'd never consider formal schooling so that situation doesn't affect us. 
For health care, it sucks pretty much everywhere, it's the nature of our capitalistic system. Here in the States, we can't even afford insurance, even as it is offered through husband's employer. In Sweden it really sucks too, people waiting for years for surgery etc. 

You did hit the spot on one thing for sure--the weather!!. No, I don't like cold, but I can handle it as I grew up in Sweden, and lived here ten years with extreme winter temps. Though we can always count on a warm summer, something you can't in Ireland, right? But since I homeschool the kids, I plan to live part of the year in southern Europe, cause I think after putting up with chilly climes for so long, I deserve a break!;D

Thanks for your offer to help me with questions about Ireland. I will definitely keep you in mind as the time gets closer. I've had other Irish folks tell me how Ireland isn't all that great as it once was (or maybe it never was, I'm sure some will say!), so we're putting more energy into researching viable options in non English speaking places as well. It's always been my dream to live in southern Europe--I studied French, Italian and Portuguese but for some odd reason (hmm, marriage perhaps) ended up here!;D The land of absolutely no culture at all (depending on your definition of it). 

Thanks again!


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## Mr.Blueskies

Hi Swedeinus,

Please, please, please do not set foot in ireland. I an irish
(Dublin irish) and I came to live in portugal one year ago, after I took a voluntary
redundancy/ early retirement package at work there. "Wild horses would not 
drag me back there kicking and screaming now !  The entire country is a total
mess. Your chances of finding work there now will be almost zero. The majority
of immigrants who came to ireland during the brief boom period (the only one in
the history of the state) have now left for home because once the recession 
began to bite they all lost their jobs. During the boom period things were ok for
them, but once the downturn began, irish attitudes to immigrants now quickly
changed to one of abuse and hostility and they were now left in no doubt that
they were now no longer welcome.

You talk about irish scenary and culture. "Yes! the scenary
is nice, if you can ever get out to enjoy it with the constant rain which never
stops. As for the culture, "hmmmmm! everything in ireland is about the bottle
and is alcohol related. Generations of my family have lived and died there so I
think that I am qualified to say that the irish are a nation of repressed and
dysfunctional alcoholics in the main who should ALL be in rehab or therapy or
both rehab and therapy more like. lol 

There is a heavy air of doom and gloom and depression, that
hangs over the whole country. On street drunkeness and loutish behaviour is 
the norm and the irish have no respect for themselves never mind for anyone
else. They are also extremely pessimistic and negative in all things and they
will all depress the hell out of you with their constant whinging and crying. If
they would just put the bottle down and get off of their bone idle backsides 
things could get better, but they all just much prefer to whine and get plastered.
"Never ever ask an irish person, well how are you ! 

Other predominant irish traits that await you there, are an
army of on street beggars and obnoxious dysfunctional bums who are to be
found lurking in every doorway and street corner. Many have taken up 
permanent residence at A.T.M. machines. To make matters worse, since recently
joining the E.U. a horde of Romanain gypsies have decended on the place and
they will have you bag or wallet in a flash. 

The irish are also famous for their back stabbing and outright
begrudgery. They have a pathological hatred of success. Anyone who does well
is a crook and a robber in their opinion and in many ways they are correct when
one sees the crooks and robbers who are running the country and who blatently
steal everything that is not nailed down or painted while telling the man in the
street that he is living WAY beyond his means. lol

I hope that this has given you a flavour for what awaits you there
should you decide to go ? 

"I jest not !


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## mickybob

I have to agree somewhat with the last comments. I have been trying to go back to the UK for 14 years, but the wife wont go, it's her home. The employers here treat employees like trash, unpaid overtime is common, Some of what was said in the last reply IMHO is over the top, there are a lot of wonderfull people here, but there are wonderfull people everywhere. Rain, well yes it does a bit, but it wouldn't be so green without it, hahaha. 
Also bear in mind, no matter what, the state has put a ban on employing any more in the health sector. There is a real possibility that Ireland will have to go to the I.M.F or get a bail out from Europe. That can mean only one thing, mas redundancy of state employees, and higher taxes, even though they have just taken lots more off of us in the second budget in 5 ( YES 5 ) months and have warned us that there is more hardship to come.
I would not have put it so strong as the last person, but as she is Irish, she has a right to say it.
But then again, the UK aint going to be a bad of roses either.


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## Mr.Blueskies

Hi MickeyBob,

"My comments were quite tongue in cheek actually,
considering that the reality in Dublin anyway, is SO much worse ! The best
thing about Ireland in my opinion, is the view from Dublin airport as you are
leaving. lol Do you know that the irish have their own form of ethnic cleansing
through enforced emmigration. Ireland also has the distinction as the country
within all of europe with the highest sustained mass levels of emmigration for
aeons. So what does that tell you about the place ? The worse country in the
world to be irish, is in ireland. Also, I am a guy.

Good riddance.


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## jamescollis

We picked Coto on outskirts of Caldas da Rainha for very similar reasons and values. Have built up time to 3 months per year and plan to live permanently in 2010, including schooling for then 5 year old.

Happy to talk, share experience and learn.

Can do phone, skype or email.

Haven't read all replies so you may well be all answered up.

regards

James


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## Mr.Blueskies

Hi again MickyBob,

If you are correct and they (the irish) have to go to
europe cap in hand and with their begging bowl, they may end up bitterly
disappointed and just end up getting a good had kick in the goolies. "Oh happy
days !  After all, they did reject the Lisbon treaty. "Poetic justice perhaps !

Also, it will be high time if there are mass redundancies in the state
sector. This sector has held the country to ransom for decades and have bled
it dry and all the time being cossetted and pampered beyond belief. What did
the tax payer get in return ? a third rate third world service. This entire sector
is top heavy with deadwood, deadbeats and total incompetents who ALL have
jobs for life and enjoy inflated salaries for in the main just turning up. They all
have zero targets, zero quotos to meet and zero accountability. Most of them
would be incapable of holding down a job at Mc Donalds.

"There may be more hardship to come and this time, I do so hope that
it IS for them !


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## Mr.Blueskies

Hi again Swedeinus,

Sorry about the irish rant, but even after a year 
away memories of that banana republic still makes my blood boil.  For me
anyway, portugal has been like a breath of fresh air. I have had my fill of city
living, so caldas da Rainha is my area of choice now. Finding paid work here
will be your biggest challenge. This may limit your options as to where you can 
go. You may have little choice really, outside of Lisbon or Porto.


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## mickybob

I think we'll put that one to bed now Mr B, but I know where your comming from. As for being gay, there are a few people who are openly gay arround Clonmel, they seem to be accepted ok. Might be the attitude of where you are from. as for me, well, live and let live. I cant agree on your best view being on the way out, I once got a flight into Dublin and sat in the cockpit as we came into land at Dublin at night.....Magic. That was 14 years ago, cant do it now.


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## Mr.Blueskies

Hi MickyBob,

"You have me confused now, to say the least ? [As for being
gay,there are a few people who are openly gay in Clonmel  they seem to
be accepted ok ] I don't understand what this means, or where this
has sprung from or it's relevance to anything that I have said. 

"I'm a happily married hetro man !


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## silvers

You said you were a guy, it must be your accent!


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## mickybob

Sorry, wrong glasses on Mr B. just looked at your post and I see Silvers has spotted my mistake, sorry.


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## Mr.Blueskies

[ Ello, honky tonks ]


Dick Emery.


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## mickybob

Oh,You are awfull, but I like you. hahaha


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## Mr.Blueskies

"DAD, I think I got it wrong again !


Gaylord.


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## mickybob

Good to meet another of Dick's fans. Used to have me in stitches.


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