# Sweden to Spain - open a restaurant?



## omaradam (Mar 7, 2013)

We are thinking of leaving Sweden after 20yrs and my husband wants to try Spain 1st,(Malaga), as his brother can give us a place to live. My husband is in the restaurant business and wants to buy a small place. Its very scarey to start over again we do not want to make a mistake. A restaurant/cafe bar that makes enough to live on with a little over.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Now isnt a good time to buy or even lease and run a restaurant in Spain, there are already too many, especially on the costas and sadly there are also many that havent survived the recession. You need to do a few visits to get a feel for how things are and what opportunities you may find. But restaurants/bars/cafes are very high risk and unlikely to make enough money to live on.

Jo xxx


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## gus-lopez (Jan 4, 2010)

I wouldn't be buying any restaurant /bar etc ; although you'll be inundated with people offering you ones to buy/rent. If you do need to sell again it will take years .


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## omaradam (Mar 7, 2013)

Thanks for the quick replies, this is just the kind of info we need.


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## tarot650 (Sep 30, 2007)

omaradam said:


> We are thinking of leaving Sweden after 20yrs and my husband wants to try Spain 1st,(Malaga), as his brother can give us a place to live. My husband is in the restaurant business and wants to buy a small place. Its very scarey to start over again we do not want to make a mistake. A restaurant/cafe bar that makes enough to live on with a little over.


You are going to get answers here from people who have never owned a bar/restaurant here and what it entails.You don't specifically state any area apart from Malaga and what type your husband would like to open.Be it A La Carte or whatever about the clientele that you wich to target.Location,location,location is the main ingredient.There are successful bars as it's not all doom and gloom but this is the but they own the feehold and have been in the same family for years so have a proven track record and clientele.Me and the other half have owned a bar restaurant here in Benalmadena costa and from our point of view it was a no no but when we owned ours years ago you could sell them on with no problems.Sincerely wish you the best of luck and at least you will have somewhere to live and if you do go for it remember it's a cutthroat business.


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## thrax (Nov 13, 2008)

Our landlord owns three very successful restaurants in Nerja so he must be doing something right and for me that is the crux of the matter. Many restaurants here open and close with great rapidity but those I know of (in that I have been to them) have clearly not thought through their business plan and it was fairly easy to predict which ones would close down and which would be succesful. You definitely need to do a number of research visits over a (I would say) 2 year period to see for yourselves which restaurants survive and which ones fail. It is a very tough business to be in in the best of times let alone a recession and massive unemployment so you really do need to tread very carefully. But that isn't to say whatever you do in the business is doomed. But you absolutely have to get it right.


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## mickbcn (Feb 4, 2013)

As a "spanish"(catalan)owner of one restaurant i in Catalonia area i would like to say you that don't waste your money. here in my area now a lot of bars and restaurant are closing the doors because customers don't have money because don't have work and the people that have money don't expend because they are waiting what will happend in the future.I think that if in a rich region like Catalonia we have this problems i don't want imagine what happend in Andalucia.In all my life (64) i never saw one crisis like this except when i was child in the post spanish civil war.I wish the best for you.
( I hope you can understand my poor english)


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## tarot650 (Sep 30, 2007)

mickbcn said:


> As a "spanish"(catalan)owner of one restaurant i in Catalonia area i would like to say you that don't waste your money. here in my area now a lot of bars and restaurant are closing the doors because customers don't have money because don't have work and the people that have money don't expend because they are waiting what will happend in the future.I think that if in a rich region like Catalonia we have this problems i don't want imagine what happend in Andalucia.In all my life (64) i never saw one crisis like this except when i was child in the post spanish civil war.I wish the best for you.
> ( I hope you can understand my poor english)


I wish my written Spanish was as good as you written English.I speak your language,which I should do after all the years of living here,which is in respect for yourself and your people but at the end of the day I am an imigrant in your country and sadly a lot of imigrants who saw the boom years are now deserting the sinking ship.God alone knows when it will end and if you say it is the worst you have ever known then it must be bad.Respect to you and your family.


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## mickbcn (Feb 4, 2013)

soulboy said:


> I wish my written Spanish was as good as you written English.I speak your language,which I should do after all the years of living here,which is in respect for yourself and your people but at the end of the day I am an imigrant in your country and sadly a lot of imigrants who saw the boom years are now deserting the sinking ship.God alone knows when it will end and if you say it is the worst you have ever known then it must be bad.Respect to you and your family.


For me you and all the people who elige "my" country to live no are inmigrants you are one more of us with the same rights than us. The spaniards and the catalans are made with different people along the centuries and I am proud that you elige this country to live .


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## tarot650 (Sep 30, 2007)

mickbcn said:


> For me you and all the people who elige "my" country to live no are inmigrants you are one more of us with the same rights than us. The spaniards and the catalans are made with different people along the centuries and I am proud that you elige this country to live .


mickbcn,muchas gracias.Buena persona con buen corazon.This is my adopted home and I would not have it any other way.SB.


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## omaradam (Mar 7, 2013)

*more info*



soulboy said:


> You are going to get answers here from people who have never owned a bar/restaurant here and what it entails.You don't specifically state any area apart from Malaga and what type your husband would like to open.Be it A La Carte or whatever about the clientele that you wich to target.Location,location,location is the main ingredient.There are successful bars as it's not all doom and gloom but this is the but they own the feehold and have been in the same family for years so have a proven track record and clientele.Me and the other half have owned a bar restaurant here in Benalmadena costa and from our point of view it was a no no but when we owned ours years ago you could sell them on with no problems.Sincerely wish you the best of luck and at least you will have somewhere to live and if you do go for it remember it's a cutthroat business.


We would be living in Riviera del sol Mirafloes, Mijas Costa but my husbands brother who does a lot of business is our guide to where the best place to have a restaurant would be. My husband will be coming out to look and we would be leasing with option to buy if we wanted to. I was actually ready to go home after 20yrs in Sweden but I quite like the thought of a new adventure in Spain,our youngest son is 9 so finding a school is another priority.


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## mickbcn (Feb 4, 2013)

You are welcome


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## mickbcn (Feb 4, 2013)

soulboy said:


> mickbcn,muchas gracias.Buena persona con buen corazon.This is my adopted home and I would not have it any other way.SB.


You are welcome.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

soulboy said:


> You are going to get answers here from people who have never owned a bar/restaurant here and what it entails.You don't specifically state any area apart from Malaga and what type your husband would like to open.Be it A La Carte or whatever about the clientele that you wich to target.Location,location,location is the main ingredient.There are successful bars as it's not all doom and gloom but this is the but they own the feehold and have been in the same family for years so have a proven track record and clientele.Me and the other half have owned a bar restaurant here in Benalmadena costa and from our point of view it was a no no but when we owned ours years ago you could sell them on with no problems.Sincerely wish you the best of luck and at least you will have somewhere to live and if you do go for it remember it's a cutthroat business.


You don't need to have owned a bar to see how quickly they open and close 
Of course location is important, but so is your knowledge of the potential clientel and marketing, none of which is news to people who alraedy work in this field. So what's the deciding factor in Spain? The economic situation as others have already said. 
Don't underestimate it.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

omaradam said:


> We would be living in Riviera del sol Mirafloes, Mijas Costa but my husbands brother who does a lot of business is our guide to where the best place to have a restaurant would be. My husband will be coming out to look and we would be leasing with option to buy if we wanted to. I was actually ready to go home after 20yrs in Sweden but I quite like the thought of a new adventure in Spain,our youngest son is 9 so finding a school is another priority.



Your brother in law will be an advantage, as he'll know how things are in Spain. Have a good look around, and be wary of agents and their "promises" and advice, there are a lot of desperate people. But looking and learning is the best way forward. Knowledge is the key, but it is a huge risk as things are in Spain - Especially if you have a young child to consider.

Jo xxx


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## omaradam (Mar 7, 2013)

There must be some restaurants that are doing ok and the owners want to sell for some other reason ,maybe it is wishful thinking.

simone


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

omaradam said:


> There must be some restaurants that are doing ok and the owners want to sell for some other reason ,maybe it is wishful thinking.
> 
> simone


Sadly, from what I can see anyway, the only ones who are doing ok are the ones who have longevity and own their own properties. Altho I guess if you have a "gimmick" or something special it can work???? But its the overheads, the licences/permits and other outgoings that can make it so difficult just to start up. I know one couple who opened a very "classy" restaurant, but it took so long for the permits etc to be granted, that by the time they started, they couldnt recoup enough of the money lost during the wait and had to "do a runner" back to the UK. Another couple I know have been running a restaurant/bar for a couple of years, they are lovely and altho they dont admit it, they are really struggling and it shows on their faces. They work al the hours god sends and deserve success - Friends of theirs make sure that they always go there and support them. Hopefully the summer will bring them the tourist trade they need. 

Jo xxxx


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## omaradam (Mar 7, 2013)

If you buy an established restaurant does it take as long to get the permits, and how long?, we have had some bad luck already these past 3 years but my Husband and his brother (especially his brother) thinks Spain would be good. As i have said before we would not have to pay rent on an apartment and we would get funding from my husbands family in the beginning, my husband is looking for a traditional Spanish restaurant, i could work with him to save money. We are looking to give it 2 years and see what happens, we will have high cost for the school i have been looking at, how does driving work is our British license ok?,how long have you lived in Spain.?


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## webmarcos (Dec 25, 2012)

If you search on 100 montaditos (and sister chain La sureña) and also Lizarran, you will see that they are chains that are expanding both in Spain, and abroad in Europe and the US. Although expensive to start, you may consider taking a franchise with them to take advantage of their marketing, knowledge of purchasing Spanish food, permits, employment laws etc. Add in your ability to bring in the Guiri customers and you may stand a chance. Otherwise, as stated here, it's a very difficult market to succeed in another country. Isn't the average lifespan for a new restaurant less than 12 months even outside of Spain and even in the good times?


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

omaradam said:


> If you buy an established restaurant does it take as long to get the permits, and how long?, we have had some bad luck already these past 3 years but my Husband and his brother (especially his brother) thinks Spain would be good. As i have said before we would not have to pay rent on an apartment and we would get funding from my husbands family in the beginning, my husband is looking for a traditional Spanish restaurant, i could work with him to save money. We are looking to give it 2 years and see what happens, we will have high cost for the school i have been looking at, how does driving work is our British license ok?,how long have you lived in Spain.?


A UK drivers licence is ok initially, BUT, you need to have your correct address on it and that means it needs to be a spanish licence if thats where your address is!!? 

If you're looking at international schools, then I recommend you choose one from this site Schools in Spain | Nabss, the governing body. I know the schools in the Mijas/Malaga area and there are one or two international schools that arent on that list for a reason!!!!!!!!!!

Jo xxx


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

omaradam said:


> There must be some restaurants that are doing ok and the owners want to sell for some other reason ,maybe it is wishful thinking.
> 
> simone


There must be!
The difficult thing will be to sift through the restaurants you see and find out which ones really are viable and which ones are being sold 'cos the market just isn't there.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

jojo said:


> A UK drivers licence is ok initially, BUT, you need to have your correct address on it and that means it needs to be a spanish licence if thats where your address is!!?
> 
> If you're looking at international schools, then I recommend you choose one from this site Schools in Spain | Nabss, the governing body. I know the schools in the Mijas/Malaga area and there are one or two international schools that arent on that list for a reason!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> Jo xxx


the plastic UK photo licence is valid until such time as the photo expires...............

however - if it is lost or stolen you can't get a replacement - you would then have to get a Spanish one


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Pesky Wesky said:


> There must be!
> The difficult thing will be to sift through the restaurants you see and find out which ones really are viable and which ones are being sold 'cos the market just isn't there.



........ and dont forget "the rent-a-crowd"!! I know that agents do this cos I had a friend who was an agent and for a free drink, I (and other friends) used to go to restaurants and bars so that they looked busy!!!!

Jo xxx


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

omaradam said:


> If you buy an established restaurant does it take as long to get the permits, and how long?, we have had some bad luck already these past 3 years but my Husband and his brother (especially his brother) thinks Spain would be good. As i have said before we would not have to pay rent on an apartment and we would get funding from my husbands family in the beginning, my husband is looking for a traditional Spanish restaurant, i could work with him to save money. We are looking to give it 2 years and see what happens, we will have high cost for the school i have been looking at, how does driving work is our British license ok?,how long have you lived in Spain.?


I wonder why they think that Spain would be good as opposed to other countries? Why, if you are looking for work, would you come to the country with the worst unemployment history in the EU?
http://epp.eurostat.ec.europa.eu/st..._rates,_seasonally_adjusted,_January_2013.png









UK 7.7%. Spain 26.2% unemployment

Another question, what would you and OH's role in the restaurant be? Chef, waiting tables, owners and managing only???


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Its not a good time, thats for sure, but you need to come over with your eyes open and the rose tinted glasses off. Work out costs, budgets, overheads, business plans etc. and make an informed decision! See it as a holiday and a fact finding mission and get a feel for everything. Thats the only way - dont do or sign anything until you are certain that it will work for you and have a "plan B" in case of mind changes etc!!

Jo xxx


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## webmarcos (Dec 25, 2012)

Pesky Wesky said:


> I wonder why they think that Spain would be good as opposed to other countries? Why, if you are looking for work, would you come to the country with the worst unemployment history in the EU?
> http://epp.eurostat.ec.europa.eu/st..._rates,_seasonally_adjusted,_January_2013.png
> 
> 
> ...


Only 57 million tourists visit each year!
And Lizarran, 100 montaditos, Mercadona, Ikea, Apple etc., have managed to keep expanding and growing sales, even if Apple pretend they don't make a profit by exporting the profit to Irish less-taxland.
Not saying the restaurant idea is a great idea, but there are still people doing ok in hospitality biz in Spain (every time I go to Madrid I see packed bars, restaurants).
Personally I think all ventures on the coast are up against it, as there is a long close season. But hey, loads of expats want to be near the sea for some reason.


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## omaradam (Mar 7, 2013)

Pesky Wesky said:


> I wonder why they think that Spain would be good as opposed to other countries? Why, if you are looking for work, would you come to the country with the worst unemployment history in the EU?
> http://epp.eurostat.ec.europa.eu/st..._rates,_seasonally_adjusted,_January_2013.png
> 
> 
> ...


My husbands brother has done business in Spain for many years so he has good contacts with the banks and other areas, where as if we went back to England(and they are our only 2 options now)It would be harder to get started as we have both been away for so many years. We both do not want to stay in Sweden anymore how long until the economy is Spain gets better?


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## omaradam (Mar 7, 2013)

jojo said:


> A UK drivers licence is ok initially, BUT, you need to have your correct address on it and that means it needs to be a spanish licence if thats where your address is!!?
> 
> If you're looking at international schools, then I recommend you choose one from this site Schools in Spain | Nabss, the governing body. I know the schools in the Mijas/Malaga area and there are one or two international schools that arent on that list for a reason!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> Jo xxx


So now i checked out the schools, the one i liked is NOT on that list but there was another i found which i had seen before. What does it meen if they are not on that site??

simone.x


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

omaradam said:


> So now i checked out the schools, the one i liked is NOT on that list but there was another i found which i had seen before. What does it meen if they are not on that site??
> 
> simone.x


it doesn't necessarily mean it's not a good school - just that it's not a member of NABSS - NABSS is an _association _which schools can choose to join - or not

we generally recommend that you check that site out because to be a member the school does have to adhere to certain standards, conditions & inspections 

only you can decide if a school is right for your child though


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

omaradam said:


> So now i checked out the schools, the one i liked is NOT on that list but there was another i found which i had seen before. What does it meen if they are not on that site??
> 
> simone.x



NABSS http://www.nabss.org/ is the overseeing body that makes sure that all the schools that belong to it are correct, operate correctly and are what they say they are - There are international schools around that have no correct teachers - I know of one whose headmaster ran a chip shop in Spain prior to starting the school. My kids unfortunately went to a school for a while where their English GCSE teacher was actually a primary school teacher!!! 

I think I kinda guessed which school you're looking at from the location you're talking about ????? and thats why I put the comment. I cant be seen to be making derogatory comments on here lol!!!! Theres a good school called "Sunnyview" in Torremolinos. The one my kids went to "The British College" in Torremuelle, Benalmadena. Both these schools are very close to train stations, which are very cheap and safe. Mine took the train from the age of 10.

Obviously you need to go and take a look. Alot depends on your son and what you want for him, some kids do well regardless and others dont do well even with the correct education. I used to sit outside of schools at drop off and pick up time and watch (no I wasnt a pervert - honest lol!!), I found it beneficial to see how well behaved the kids were at those times, whether they were happy, stressed, relaxed, neat and tidy..... and to see what the other parents were like.

Jo xxxx


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## tarot650 (Sep 30, 2007)

jojo said:


> ........ and dont forget "the rent-a-crowd"!! I know that agents do this cos I had a friend who was an agent and for a free drink, I (and other friends) used to go to restaurants and bars so that they looked busy!!!!
> 
> Jo xxx


The rent a crowd are nothing new.It's been going on for years.In all honesty I would be utterly ashamed to be associated with them but it's suprising what people will do for a free drink.


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## omaradam (Mar 7, 2013)

Thanks Jo so much great info, because we have been living in Sweden my children have only studied in Swedish even though they can both speak fluent English. My eldest child will not be coming with us(He is nearly 20 and will continue his studies here). My youngest has had some issues in school (in regards to learning)and the Swedesh system is quite laid back. So i do worry that he will fit in to a new school with a totaly different teaching method. I am looking for a school that can give extra help and with small classes.

simone x


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

jojo said:


> A UK drivers licence is ok initially, BUT, you need to have your correct address on it and that means it needs to be a spanish licence if thats where your address is!!?
> 
> If you're looking at international schools, then I recommend you choose one from this site Schools in Spain | Nabss, the governing body. I know the schools in the Mijas/Malaga area and there are one or two international schools that arent on that list for a reason!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> Jo xxx


This is not correct. There is special dispensation for people who move abroad. The DVLA accept that the address may be wrong if you have moved abroad - and they are happy with this.

However, once the photo card part expires (it only lasts up to 10 years) then it will need updating and this can only be done to a valid UK address. If you live abroad, then obviously you can't do this so have to exchange it for a Spanish one before it expires.


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