# Moving



## WildAly86 (May 28, 2020)

Hello I Plan on Moving to Mexico but what are the Safest cities to search for??


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## lat19n (Aug 19, 2017)

WildAly86 said:


> Hello I Plan on Moving to Mexico but what are the Safest cities to search for??


I think the Merida Chamber of Commerce/Tourist Board would tell you Merida. 

In reality there are good and bad places most everywhere (in the world for that matter) within the same city/locale. You need to find a place you like and then drill down within it to find a place that is safe. 

We live in a gated/secure community and we sleep with the windows open (doors locked) but within a 2 mile radius there have probably been at least 6 to 12 people killed in the last year - mostly drug related.


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## WildAly86 (May 28, 2020)

Thanks! I Have several friends that live in various cities of Mexico(PV,Cancun,Juriquilla Queretaro,San Luis Potosi,Cabo San Lucas & Oaxaca) if anyone had more info on where to stay from & would be affordable?? Plus What The danger level is with cartels/gangs? One of my friends hasn't been heard from since late April (San Luis Potosi area) not normal to go silent this long. I Hate to ask would it be possible to post her picture with some info here? Thanks for your help Ttyl


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

WildAly86 said:


> Thanks! I Have several friends that live in various cities of Mexico(PV,Cancun,Juriquilla Queretaro,San Luis Potosi,Cabo San Lucas & Oaxaca) if anyone had more info on where to stay from & would be affordable?? Plus What The danger level is with cartels/gangs? One of my friends hasn't been heard from since late April (San Luis Potosi area) not normal to go silent this long. I Hate to ask would it be possible to post her picture with some info here? Thanks for your help Ttyl


Forum rules prohibit "missing person" type posts.


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## izzenhood (Jun 8, 2013)

*Safe Cities*



WildAly86 said:


> Hello I Plan on Moving to Mexico but what are the Safest cities to search for??


You might want to post some details on your climate preferences, medical needs, fitness level, etc. I would recommend Guanajuato, but there's no beach, fewer engish speakers than some cities, and fitness would make it more pleasant. While there is a lot of crime in Guanajuato State, most is in cities way south of Guanajuato City.


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

Lots of areas are pretty safe.. You first need to figure out your preferrences and then you can look for safety.If you want to be safe move to a village in Switzerland.. That should do it..


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

citlali said:


> Lots of areas are pretty safe.. You first need to figure out your preferrences and then you can look for safety.If you want to be safe move to a village in Switzerland.. That should do it..


There are no guarantees:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annecy_shootings


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

Annecy is in France.. ja ja.. It is pretty but not a village.. My brother has a condo in a village one hour from Annecy and I can assure you you can walk the streets at night without worrying but as you say there is no guaranty...

I remember those murders in 2012, that was really weird.. an I see they had more in 2017.. I guess I am not going to visit my brotehr s place any longer.. Better stay on the Swiss side.. Ha ha


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## WildAly86 (May 28, 2020)

OK Thank You


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## WildAly86 (May 28, 2020)

Omg lol


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## hyracer (Aug 14, 2011)

If safety is your highest priority, then I wouldn't recommend living in a city and that's not just Mexico. Criminal types like all the modern conveniences that a city has to offer just as much as the non-criminal types.
As far as "gangs/cartels" are concerned, anyone can be unlucky enough to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. But in general your chances of being victimized by gangs/cartels are lessoned if you don't flaunt your wealth. Don't flash cash in public, don't wear flashy jewelry. Don't do drugs, don't associate with any friend or acquaintance that do. Don't be out and about late at night, etc.


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

citlali said:


> Annecy is in France.. ja ja


I knew that but it was the closest I could come.


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## Trad+Cath+2022 (Jan 2, 2022)

WildAly86 said:


> Hello I Plan on Moving to Mexico but what are the Safest cities to search for??


Look up the FBI data, The US has 9x more crime than Mexico, though Mexico has more homicides. Stay away from cartel areas and your chances of being murdered go way down.


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

Cartel areas?? They are just about everywhere...


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## Trad+Cath+2022 (Jan 2, 2022)

citlali said:


> Cartel areas?? They are just about everywhere...


Doubtful. I've traveled MX for 40 years and they are not "just about" everywhere. They only dare stick their neck out when they know the global military industrial complex isn't going to chop it off.


citlali said:


> Cartel areas?? They are just about everywhere...


Then wear body armor.


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

I do not need to.. They have stopped me at gun point on a mountain road... question me and amy friends and let us go.. if you do not mess with them , they have no interest in you... You may have travelled Mexico for 40 years but if you do not know they are everywhere including where the guards, the police and the army are, you do not know a whole lot about Mexico.


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## eastwind (Jun 18, 2016)

Well, the cartels are everywhere in Mexico to some extent, its just that in some areas they are all that's there, because the government/military is _not _everywhere. In Cancun you can see the graffiti where the cartels have tagged a wall or a business. If you don't think they are around then you don't know what to look for.


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## surabi (Jan 1, 2017)

citlali said:


> You may have travelled Mexico for 40 years but if you do not know they are everywhere including where the guards, the police and the army are, you do not know a whole lot about Mexico.


This new poster seems to think they know a whole lot about just about everything. In the past 24 hours, they've offered their "expertise" on vaccinations, tetanus, religion, cartels, and feeding one's cats.


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## kphoger (Apr 22, 2020)

The cartels may be everywhere, but they aren't violent everywhere. In a lot of places, the local members are just out to raise money for the higher-ups. So, for example, if you were to organize a horse race or a community dance, then you might be intimidated by a cartel member into giving them a portion of the proceeds. In such areas, the pre-2008 equilibrium of power seems to carry on as usual, with the police and the cartels enjoying an uneasy peace and there never really being any need for extreme measures by anyone involved.

Chances are, if a city is known for cartel violence, then it has had a bad reputation for decades anyway. Take Torreón compared to Saltillo, for example: back when municipio-level data was still being published by the Mexican secretary of state's office (gosh, was that really eleven years ago already?), Torreón accounted for 80% of the state's narco-related homicides but only 20% of the total population—but it's had a reputation as a rough town in general since long before Calderón took office.

So, probably, it may be worthwhile to simply ignore the cartel factor entirely and ask what cities have the lowest crime rates in general. With that in mind, everyone's list always seems to include Mérida (and really all of Yucatán) and Querétaro. Puerto Vallarta and nearby communities along the Nayarit riviera make a lot of lists too, as does the southern end of Baja. A more surprising city to top a lot of lists might be Puebla. And Guanajuato seems to come and go from year to year, so it's probably a tentatively good choice.

But, really, you shouldn't let crime rates lead you to live in one place or another. There's crime everywhere, and there's also relative safety everywhere too. When looking at crime data, it's easy to forget that you're really just comparing infinitesimal risks to each other, and at some point you really just need to ask yourself what you're expecting to find. A few tips:

1. Don't flash your wealth around. This is true everywhere, of course, but it's especially true when you're a green-go in Mexico.

2. You're going to be seen as a wealthy 'mark' no matter what you do or don't do. This is, to some degree, unavoidable. My best friends drive a 16-year-old vehicle, rent a somewhat modest house in Mexico, are usually just-above-broke, etc. And still, while they were stateside for a couple of months a year ago or so, they still had their house broken into. He had just helped build his own gate and install security bars on the windows before coming stateside, too. The intruders gave up on their grinder and went to such trouble as pry-bending a couple of the security bars out from their footings in the wall to squeeze in between them, leaving a trail of blood all over the house wherever they went. There wasn't much of value to be found inside because, as I said, my friends aren't rich by any stretch, but their green-go-ness but a bullseye on their house nonetheless.

3. Many crimes are never solved in Mexico. Even with the perpetrator obviously having been seriously injured, and even with a local pastor-friend keen to find out who it had been, and even with another local church member-friend being an interested party as landlord, still the crime was never solved. This is not unusual. In fact, plenty more crimes never even get reported at all.

4. Good neighborhoods are better than bad neighborhoods, no matter where you are in the world. And daytime is better than nighttime, no matter where you are in the world.


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## Trad+Cath+2022 (Jan 2, 2022)

surabi said:


> This new poster seems to think they know a whole lot about just about everything. In the past 24 hours, they've offered their "expertise" on vaccinations, tetanus, religion, cartels, and feeding one's cats.


And your desire to demonstrate an intolerance for anything that defies your pre-existing biases and beliefs has been showcased exceptionally well. Even calling upon moderators when the world doesn't conform to your world view. When did you intend to learn how to tolerate that which was not made in the image of your ego? Thanks for your consideration.


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## kphoger (Apr 22, 2020)

Trad+Cath+2022 said:


> And your desire to demonstrate an intolerance for anything that defies your pre-existing biases and beliefs has been showcased exceptionally well. Even calling upon moderators when the world doesn't conform to your world view. When did you intend to learn how to tolerate that which was not made in the image of your ego? Thanks for your consideration.


You are not the world.

And let's stop insulting each other, OK?


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## Trad+Cath+2022 (Jan 2, 2022)

kphoger said:


> So, probably, it may be worthwhile to simply ignore the cartel factor entirely and ask what cities have the lowest crime rates in general. With that in mind, everyone's list always seems to include Mérida (and really all of Yucatán) and Querétaro. Puerto Vallarta and nearby communities along the Nayarit riviera make a lot of lists too, as does the southern end of Baja. A more surprising city to top a lot of lists might be Puebla. And Guanajuato seems to come and go from year to year, so it's probably a tentatively good choice.


Thanks for this list! Very helpful!


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## Trad+Cath+2022 (Jan 2, 2022)

kphoger said:


> You are not the world.
> 
> And let's stop insulting each other, OK?


I am Christian. I am all for peace. You are forgiven.


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## kphoger (Apr 22, 2020)

Trad+Cath+2022 said:


> I am Christian. I am all for peace. You are forgiven.


I didn't just mean you and me specifically. I meant all of us. No more personal attacks. Intelligent people can arrive at different conclusions, and that's OK.

= = = = =

As for locations that are safer than others, I suggest just doing a Google search for {safest places in mexico}, then look at a dozen of them. Pay attention to what year it was posted online, whether it was made my a blogger or a travel magazine or whatever, and what specific criteria the author was comparing. Then figure out which locations made it onto the most lists, and which locations made it near the top of those lists.


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

You may be thinking of the places where expat go, mostly cities as safe in Puebla or Guanajuato but I work with an organization that works with artisans in country and I can tell you than many places in the state of Puebla and Guanajuato arre not saf The San Martin Texmalucan area is not safe and neither is the area close to the Vera Cruz border. This information we got directly from artisans working in these areas and not from blogs or forum. A lot of things are going on that do not make the news with foreigners but many places in the country are not safe.
The man who is now banned ws looking to relocate in the country not in a ****** area and the situation is very differnt for people wanting to move in the middle of nowhere and who do not know the lay of the land.


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## kphoger (Apr 22, 2020)

Yes, most of those lists are compiled for the purposes of expats and tourists.

When you stop and think about things, it's actually rather unreasonable to expect to find a large swath of arable land in the middle of nowhere that _isn't_ of interest to a cartel. I'm somewhat close with a family in an area of Coahuila that has largely escaped any cartel violence, whose patriarch for years had the dream of starting a pecan farm. About a dozen years ago now, the family finally acquired a plot of land and planted the stick-type tree starters in dugout pits. I was there the day the generator was hooked up to the well, I helped dig ditches to the pits, I witnessed the first gush of water from the conduit. The patriarch had died by the time any of those trees began producing nuts, but it was a generations-long dream come true, and his daughter always lights up whenever I ask her about the farm, and she's always eager to show me how the trees and any vegetables are doing that year—walking between the rows with sun-shielding umbrella in hand. But they know full-well that, at a moment's notice someday, the family could be approached by a member of the cartel, and a demand could be made to hand over their land. Only one or two properties away—visible from the field, in fact—is land whose owner had been approached in just that way not long prior. Moreover, back in 2010 or so, a member of the cartel showed up at the children's home where the granddaughter was director at the time, and he demanded that the cartel be given the family's heirloom horse gate. Her brother, upon hearing news of such brazen intimidation, went over to the cartel member's "place of business" and chewed him out for approaching his sister like that, and the cartel member backed down. But that brother also admits that, if push had come to shove, he'd have given away the gate for the sake of peace. And, when we asked him one day what would happen if the cartel were to demand their prized orchard land, he paused only for a second before answering, "I'd give it to them. It's just land."

And thank you to whomever banned that user. A year and a half ago, I found myself consumed by the politics of the pandemic. I was watching a lot of talk on YouTube to feed my confirmation bias, and I was engaging in a lot of spirited arguments online about the situation. I was getting to the point of not liking who I was becoming, and I was spending way more time watching stuff on YouTube than I was spending with my wife and children. So, a little more than a year ago now, I divorced my smartphone (got a dumbphone instead), and took time off from internet forums for a few months. The forum I usually frequent has become a lot busier over the last several months, with plenty of argument going around, and I haven't been on there in probably four months now. And now, just when I decide that this forum is a quiet enough place to pop on once in a while, _this guy_ shows up and stirs my pot. So thank you for the moderation decision. I personally appreciate it.


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

kphoger said:


> Yes, most of those lists are compiled for the purposes of expats and tourists.
> 
> When you stop and think about things, it's actually rather unreasonable to expect to find a large swath of arable land in the middle of nowhere that _isn't_ of interest to a cartel. I'm somewhat close with a family in an area of Coahuila that has largely escaped any cartel violence, whose patriarch for years had the dream of starting a pecan farm. About a dozen years ago now, the family finally acquired a plot of land and planted the stick-type tree starters in dugout pits. I was there the day the generator was hooked up to the well, I helped dig ditches to the pits, I witnessed the first gush of water from the conduit. The patriarch had died by the time any of those trees began producing nuts, but it was a generations-long dream come true, and his daughter always lights up whenever I ask her about the farm, and she's always eager to show me how the trees and any vegetables are doing that year—walking between the rows with sun-shielding umbrella in hand. But they know full-well that, at a moment's notice someday, the family could be approached by a member of the cartel, and a demand could be made to hand over their land. Only one or two properties away—visible from the field, in fact—is land whose owner had been approached in just that way not long prior. Moreover, back in 2010 or so, a member of the cartel showed up at the children's home where the granddaughter was director at the time, and he demanded that the cartel be given the family's heirloom horse gate. Her brother, upon hearing news of such brazen intimidation, went over to the cartel member's "place of business" and chewed him out for approaching his sister like that, and the cartel member backed down. But that brother also admits that, if push had come to shove, he'd have given away the gate for the sake of peace. And, when we asked him one day what would happen if the cartel were to demand their prized orchard land, he paused only for a second before answering, "I'd give it to them. It's just land."
> 
> And thank you to whomever banned that user. A year and a half ago, I found myself consumed by the politics of the pandemic. I was watching a lot of talk on YouTube to feed my confirmation bias, and I was engaging in a lot of spirited arguments online about the situation. I was getting to the point of not liking who I was becoming, and I was spending way more time watching stuff on YouTube than I was spending with my wife and children. So, a little more than a year ago now, I divorced my smartphone (got a dumbphone instead), and took time off from internet forums for a few months. The forum I usually frequent has become a lot busier over the last several months, with plenty of argument going around, and I haven't been on there in probably four months now. And now, just when I decide that this forum is a quiet enough place to pop on once in a while, _this guy_ shows up and stirs my pot. So thank you for the moderation decision. I personally appreciate it.


You can thank my fellow moderator Tundra Green for banning"He Whose Name Must Not Be Spoken".


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## kphoger (Apr 22, 2020)

Isla Verde said:


> "He Whose Name Must Not Be Spoken"


I literally considered referring to him in precisely that way when writing my post—was debating with myself, in fact, about whether it should be "He Whose Name" or "Him Whose Name" based on the grammatical context, before deciding to just use his screenname, then being too lazy to actually scroll up and remind myself what it was, and finally settling on (the admittedly lame) "that user".


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## AnneLM (Aug 16, 2016)

Yes, thank you! The regulars and most posters on this forum hold a very broad range of opinions on a very broad range of topics, and I suspect some of us (not me!!!) actually agree with this guy on certain things. But digging up long dead threads just to display his views and provoke was exasperating, to put it mildly.


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## surabi (Jan 1, 2017)

kphoger said:


> was debating with myself, in fact, about whether it should be "He Whose Name" or "Him Whose Name" based on the grammatical context,


"Him whose name" is grammatically incorrect, regardless of any context.


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

kphoger said:


> I literally considered referring to him in precisely that way when writing my post—was debating with myself, in fact, about whether it should be "He Whose Name" or "Him Whose Name" based on the grammatical context, before deciding to just use his screenname, then being too lazy to actually scroll up and remind myself what it was, and finally settling on (the admittedly lame) "that user".


We moderators are here to serve!


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## kphoger (Apr 22, 2020)

surabi said:


> "Him whose name" is grammatically incorrect, regardless of any context.


Disagree. My sentence would have thus ended in the phrase "...banned he whose name must not be spoken". I don't think the word "he" should ever be used as a direct object.

That would be like saying "We should invite they over for dinner with us sometime soon."


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## MangoTango (Feb 8, 2020)

Perhaps I am a skeptical person - but when I see activity such as this (bringing back old content) on a 'stalling' website I assume that there is someone associated with the site (like someone from a board other than Mexico) who is attempting to increase traffic...


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## eastwind (Jun 18, 2016)

'whose name cannot be spoken' is a relative clause which can be used to modify a noun whether the noun is in the subjective/nominative or objective. Therefore, whether you use 'him' or 'he' depends not on the relative clause but what case the word him/he should be in based on its usage in the rest of the sentence. I.e, leave out "whose name cannot be spoken" and write the sentence as you normally would, then add the clause and it's correct.

So:

You can thank my fellow moderator for banning him (whose name must not be spoken)

is the correct form.

Or you can say:

He (whose name must not be spoken) has been banned forever and good riddance to a turbulent priest.


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## kphoger (Apr 22, 2020)

Wow, a permanent ban? You guys don't fool around on here! When I read the forum rules/guidelines, there were so few of them that I assumed it would take an act of God to get someone banned. Thank goodness that isn't the case.


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

kphoger said:


> Wow, a permanent ban? You guys don't fool around on here! When I read the forum rules/guidelines, there were so few of them that I assumed it would take an act of God to get someone banned. Thank goodness that isn't the case.


On the Mexico Forum TG and I have supernatural powers, though we are not quite as powerful as The Almighty!


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## mr_manny (Nov 22, 2013)

Yesterday our car was stopped by soldiers as we where driving home. We live in a small pueblo, which does see soldiers from time-to-time...check-points not so much. 
He was polite and asked if he could perform a routine inspection of our vehicle. During the inspection, he asked what was life like in our pueblo...todo tranquilo? Yes, I replied. 
He continued asking about our community, and if we had any concerns.
I'm sure he was mainly interested in illegal activity, but I replied with a rant about my neighbors overly aggressive dogs and their impact on our neighborhood.

Yes illegal activity does exist, but if it isn't a part of your life...you don't see it.


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