# To Register as Resident or Not?



## Fidgety (Nov 1, 2011)

Okay. Speaking as someone who is still wading through the Toll thread - I'll just buy a gadget - I've ended up totally confused by the Residency laws.

I'm not quite sure where I'm coming from here because I've read on many forums, including ones about Spain, where people live in the country but don't actually register as resident and still have a UK address.

For starters I don't know how I could still have a UK address unless I could afford 2 houses - which I can't, but the whole thing still leaves me wondering if I get a choice to register as resident and if I do, which would be the preferred option?


----------



## siobhanwf (Mar 20, 2009)

You might find reading this pubilication by the Foreign Office useful
http://ukinportugal.fco.gov.uk/resources/en/pdf/18177967/ResPortugals 
Under EU directives and in compliance with a recent change in Portuguese law, you may remain in Portugal for a maximum of 3 months without having to comply with any formalities.

Basically if you intend to remain in Portugal for a period exceeding 3 months, you must apply to your nearest town hall or to the Portuguese Immigration Service - the Servço de Estrangeiros e Fronteiras (SEF) for a Registration Certificate, during the 30 days following the 3-month period. 
= This certificate is valid for 5 years from the date of issue ( or for your period of intended residency - if this is less than 5 years)


----------



## Fidgety (Nov 1, 2011)

That link is Page Not Found, Siobhan - maybe they've changed the rules already!

It is very confusing. More so if you go onto the Spainish forums where from what I can see a lot of people live there but aren't registered as residents. It sounds a bit dicey to me.


----------



## robc (Jul 17, 2008)

Hi Fidgety

It is actually quite straightforward(ish)

Firstly, if you are not going to live in Spain, why worry about what their Foreign nationals do. Spain is different to Portugal in many ways, immigration is I guess just one of them.

Secondly, you have to decide where *you* want to live, I see from your first post that you do not intend having more than the one house in Portugal. This simplifies matters no end.

Thirdly, if you will be living in Portugal permanently (in as much as more than 3 months per year) then you have 3 plus current month to register your residency, which you will need to do in order to get access toany state entitlements that you qualify for.

Now, if you had 2 houses, for example one in the UK and one in Portugal then that would be altogether different. I think that this is maybe where the confusion creeps in.

HTH

Rob


----------



## siobhanwf (Mar 20, 2009)

Fidgety said:


> That link is Page Not Found, Siobhan - maybe they've changed the rules already!
> 
> It is very confusing. More so if you go onto the Spainish forums where from what I can see a lot of people live there but aren't registered as residents. It sounds a bit dicey to me.


try this one 

http://ukinportugal.fco.gov.uk/resources/en/pdf/18177967/ResPortugal it is working for me


----------



## Fidgety (Nov 1, 2011)

Thank, Siobhan. Nice and simple - easy to follow!

Rob - How does it complicate matters if you have a property here and in the UK (I'm thinking of winning the lottery!)


----------



## robc (Jul 17, 2008)

Fidgety said:


> Thank, Siobhan. Nice and simple - easy to follow!
> 
> Rob - How does it complicate matters if you have a property here and in the UK (I'm thinking of winning the lottery!)


It means that you have to make some elections with regard to your Tax status which in turn will affect your domicility or residence status.

There have been many threads written on this subject, various rules and regulations and the like have been discussed, for example 183 days in the UK.

Many people have, I believe, owned a property in the UK and then a holiday home in the southern Mediterranean, they have spent most of their time in the south, used all the services available locally and yet continued to pay tax in the UK.

Slowly and inexorably this will be stopped as it is unfair on the Mediterranean country.

HTH

Rob


----------



## canoeman (Mar 3, 2011)

Siobhán link to FCO explains requirements, you also reguire a Astedado (proof of address) from your local Junta (Parish Council) costs of Registering is €15 pp, you might be reguired to prove financial Independence and health cover.
I've never found out what fines are but it is a fine-able offence not to register Residence.

Tax is a more complicated issue, but basically if you are a Resident (spend 183 days cumulatively and your main residence is here) then your tax return is made here and if any tax due paid here.

You can own property or earn money anywhere outside Portugal, you just declare it on your returns.


----------



## Fidgety (Nov 1, 2011)

Thanks for all your replies - very, very helpful.

I can clearly see why the authorities would consider clamping down if you weren't registered as a resident. Put the boot on the other foot and folk would be going mad in the UK.

There are a lot of things that still concern me and I'm not quite to the bottom of it yet. Still trying to get over being peeved with the UK, who don't seem to transfer any safety nets over if you move even though I've paid in since being 16. 

The UK pension isn't much fun either because as self employed I discover that if I want a full UK pension I've got to pay the highest rate of NI. Still not sure what I would be entitled to under PT legislation even when I pay into that system.

Then, of course, there is the euro and currency issues. Should I put all my eggs in one basket and stop paying UK NI (possibly cutting my own nose off) and just claim my pension forecast when the time is due (They will probably raise the retirement age to about 88 by the time they're finished!)

Oooh. So many quandries!


----------



## canoeman (Mar 3, 2011)

A lot depends on your age and your current entitlement, easiest is to get a Pension Forecast from UK and make your plans from there.
If you intend working and paying Social Security in Portugal then your UK pension entitlement at date you leave is added, but Portuguese state pensions aren't UK's levels and would be based on what you paid in.

You can transfer or be entitled to some benefits the information is on the UK Gov site if you search.

If your not earning in UK then you don't pay NI although it might be possible to make voluntary contributions but it depends on balancing what you pay in to get out!


----------



## Fidgety (Nov 1, 2011)

I did have a pension forecast done at the beginning of this year (so I guess I've got another tax year which will increase it) which is when I discovered about paying the higher NI rate to the UK if I wanted a full UK pension. 

To be honest I haven't got a clue what a PT pension would be. I should have checked by now.

I spoke to somebody about the transferable benefits and it seemed just to be either unemployment or disability and that was only if you were registered as such when you left the UK.

The concern is that if I'm ill in PT or the work stops coming in, then I won't be able to claim anything from anybody. 

I think I'll just get another pension forecast done and it might help me make up my mind!


----------



## canoeman (Mar 3, 2011)

"The concern is that if I'm ill in PT or the work stops coming in, then I won't be able to claim anything from anybody. "

Do you mean by this you'll continue working in UK or you intend working in Portugal? a different scenario and procedure to retiring to Portugal


----------



## Fidgety (Nov 1, 2011)

Should have made myself clearer.

I intend on moving to Portugal and working there as self employed until I retire. Unless one of the above nasties happens and then I'm in Schtook.


----------



## canoeman (Mar 3, 2011)

You have a lot of research on self employment to do for Portugal then, it is not as easy and straightforward as UK.
The easiest way is to contact a Portuguese accountant who can spell out the steps and requirements.
I hope you have a _niche_ profession or skill as finding work especially for an Expat is not easy.


----------



## siobhanwf (Mar 20, 2009)

Have you decided on what are you are moving to or would like to move to?


----------



## canoeman (Mar 3, 2011)

Just to go back to your original question, if you intend to work here and hope for any rights to unemployment, health care, pension then you have to Register and pay into the Social Security system, it really is not an option.


----------



## Fidgety (Nov 1, 2011)

Hi Siobhan,
Hoping to move into the Coimbra area.

Canoeman - I've already got the employment as I work from home and to transfer it to PT would be better than the UK because most of my customers are European. For the most part I actually get paid in Euros, so I lose out the biggest part of the time.

It didn't seem too bad when I last looked into self employment status there and better than Spain. It practically costs you a fortune to become self employed there.

Not looking to avoid registration. Just wanted to clarify if there was a choice - and if there was, pick the most advantageous.


----------



## canoeman (Mar 3, 2011)

Best of luck, nice area Coimbra


----------



## TAO22 (Dec 30, 2010)

Hi there,
Having been through the same quandry myself one thing I would consider also is if you are a UK car owner, and wish to keep your car in Portugal, then be aware that the current matriculation process can only be started within 6 months of 'registering' yourself in Portugal! This can be quite important if you intend to use said vehicle for your business here...hope this helps.


----------



## siobhanwf (Mar 20, 2009)

Fidgety said:


> Hi Siobhan,
> Hoping to move into the Coimbra area.
> 
> Canoeman - I've already got the employment as I work from home and to transfer it to PT would be better than the UK because most of my customers are European. For the most part I actually get paid in Euros, so I lose out the biggest part of the time.
> ...


Not too far from me! And a lovely area. Just returning to the UK but will contact you when I get back. I have someone who has just helped a friend set up as self employed here. The whole processed took two months!!


----------

