# is it too late to move to Spain and get EU residency



## infrid (Sep 5, 2016)

*tl;dr*
Can I turn up in Spain last week of November, put money in a bank account, get a 1 year rental contract, and do the various steps and apply for residency before December 31st?

*Full version*
I'm British, living in Ecuador. Our intention was come and move to Spain with my Bolivian wife and 2 half Britsh/half latino kids.

Seeing as me and the kids hold UK passports, the idea was to come over, get residency, and then have the wife visit and give it to her.. that was all well and good until the world locked down 

We're currently waiting for my wife to get a renewed passport (hers is expired and the renewal is delayed due to covid), and once we get it we will travel. The spanish embassy said they'd give her a visa so we can travel together.

I've paid various lawyers who've told me a bunch of codswallop such as, I can turn up next year and there is a special agreement for Brits, to claim residency. The same lawyers also told me that I can turn up whenever and just stick 30k Euros in a bank account and rent a property and I'm good.

Many of you peeps are sage and have up to date info: what is the truth? Will I be able to come, rent a property, deposit money in a spanish account and get residency, or is there a 3 month minimum?

I' want to get it right, as I don't want to travel, with all the myriad risks posed by covid, to achieve absolutely nothing: the worst case scenario of stay in Ecuador and apply for a non-lucrative visa, next year, will be better than come to Spain and get nothing..

Please help us out; we've paid hundreds of dollars and I don't trust these lawyers a jot.

Thanks everyone.


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## infrid (Sep 5, 2016)

To be clear; laywer said I could stick 21000 euros in an account, and then go and apply. not a monthly minimum.


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## infrid (Sep 5, 2016)

I also found this:



> How much money do Brits registering for residency in Spain before December 31st need to show?
> 
> The Withdrawal Agreement and the Royal Decree covering Spain's Brexit contingency measures guarantee that Brits living in Spain before the end of 2020 are treated the same as all other EU/EEA citizens, even if they have their residency appointment after the December 31st 2020 deadline.
> 
> ...


from /SNIP/ via thelocal .es (can't paste links yet; account is too new)

so it sounds like I will be able to do this afterall.. Still, if anyone here has specific info/guidance, then please share.


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## Glynb (Oct 6, 2016)

The main issue for British wanting to move to Spain next year, as I see it, will be the higher savings and income requirements. They are currently lower for EU members than for non-EU. So those British on a modest income/savings would be better to apply this year, than risk not being able to meet the higher income requirements for non-EU applicants (which British will be from 2021).

You'll still be able to apply next year, but it certainly won't be any easier.

It's very tight now to get everything in place. You'll need a NIE, bank account, address, padron cert, proof of regular amounts going in the bank.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

infrid said:


> I also found this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The organisation you quoted has no official standing. It's a forum similar to this one, so quoting it is against forum rules, which is why I removed references to it. 


The figures quoted are more or less what is required at the moment - some extranjerías accept less, some more. 

What IS happening atm though, is that for a first TIE (WA version) many more extranjerías than previously are expecting funds to have been in an account for 3 months or more before 'approval'.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Glynb said:


> The main issue for British wanting to move to Spain next year, as I see it, will be the higher savings and income requirements. They are currently lower for EU members than for non-EU. So those British on a modest income/savings would be better to apply this year, than risk not being able to meet the higher income requirements for non-EU applicants (which British will be from 2021).
> 
> You'll still be able to apply next year, but it certainly won't be any easier.
> 
> It's very tight now to get everything in place. You'll need a NIE, bank account, address, padron cert, proof of regular amounts going in the bank.


A NIE would be issued at the time of first application.


Yes, next year financial requirements will be MUCH higher.

Going by what is currently required for non-EU citizens, for a family of four, it would be in the region of 52,000€ a year + private healthcare insurance.

The visa application is more complicated too, & has to be done before coming to Spain.


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## Catalunya22 (Apr 25, 2020)

infrid said:


> *tl;dr*
> Can I turn up in Spain last week of November, put money in a bank account, get a 1 year rental contract, and do the various steps and apply for residency before December 31st?
> 
> *Full version*
> ...



You need to come THIS year if possible.
From next year as a UK citizen you will need a MUCH higher income level....4 or 5 times as much.PLUS private healthcare for everyone. You need private healthcare if you come this year too....but the income thresh-hold is lower.


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## infrid (Sep 5, 2016)

Catalunya22 said:


> You need to come THIS year if possible.
> From next year as a UK citizen you will need a MUCH higher income level....4 or 5 times as much.PLUS private healthcare for everyone. You need private healthcare if you come this year too....but the income thresh-hold is lower.





> What IS happening atm though, is that for a first TIE (WA version) many more extranjerías than previously are expecting funds to have been in an account for 3 months or more before 'approval'.


I totally get it's better to come this year. This is what we are trying to do. The issue I have, is, I don't think I can come before last week of November, and first week of December.

Lawyers are telling me that's fine. A lot of folks are saying I need a Spanish bank account with money in it for 3 months (how can I do that before coming to spain)? My money is in online services, similar to paypal, not regular banks. So I worry that even if I move the cash to spanish bank account, that we will be rejected, then would have come for nothing.

What would happen in that case? As I understand it, they're not even doing appointments now; but having an application before December 31st is enough to secure the TIE. The only bit I'm unsure of is this 3 month requirement. 

I can't even fly to Spain today if I wanted; it's closed for non-spanish citizens from Ecuador, and if I wanted to go, I'd have to quanrentine in the UK (God forbid)


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

infrid said:


> I totally get it's better to come this year. This is what we are trying to do. The issue I have, is, I don't think I can come before last week of November, and first week of December.
> 
> Lawyers are telling me that's fine. A lot of folks are saying I need a Spanish bank account with money in it for 3 months (how can I do that before coming to spain)? My money is in online services, similar to paypal, not regular banks. So I worry that even if I move the cash to spanish bank account, that we will be rejected, then would have come for nothing.
> 
> ...


There are appointments still - though there has been such a huge rush that some offices are overwhelmed. People are checking online several times each day & grabbing what they can. 

Only the specific office to which you'll be applying can say if they require the funds to have been in the account for 3 months.


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## Barriej (Jul 23, 2012)

We moved over in August.
You will be ok to move end of November. 

You will need to open a Spanish non resident account and put your money in. 
If you are coming to the Alicante area. You will need 9000 in the account for you and extra for the kids (don't know how much as we don't have kids)
You then have to spend from this account daily or whenever, for 3 months and keep the account at or around the 9000 and once the 3 months is up you can apply. 

You will also need private healthcare, NIE for everyone, an address, padrón cert less than 3 months old at time of application, detailed bank statements signed and stamped from the bank to show the transactions. 

So if you get here 1st December you can apply for residency on the 1st March 2021 at the earliest. 
As you were here and can prove it (bank transactions, airline tickets) you still qualify under the Brexit agreement.

These requirements are from Alicante where we will be applying, from other areas the amount etc will be different.


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## infrid (Sep 5, 2016)

xabiaxica said:


> There are appointments still - though there has been such a huge rush that some offices are overwhelmed. People are checking online several times each day & grabbing what they can.
> 
> Only the specific office to which you'll be applying can say if they require the funds to have been in the account for 3 months.


I appreciate you answering. Do you have any idea how I can get in touch with them before I pack up my house and drag my family over to Spain? I could call them before making plans.

We're planning to live in Granada; but I'd probably move anywhere that would give me the ability to get residency, even if I have to do the application with a cheap flat I only use to get the residency, and then move to Granada afterwards: losing the deposit (or even a years rent) would be better than not getting residency.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

infrid said:


> I appreciate you answering. Do you have any idea how I can get in touch with them before I pack up my house and drag my family over to Spain? I could call them before making plans.
> 
> We're planning to live in Granada; but I'd probably move anywhere that would give me the ability to get residency, even if I have to do the application with a cheap flat I only use to get the residency, and then move to Granada afterwards: losing the deposit (or even a years rent) would be better than not getting residency.


Usually I'd suggest calling them. 


One idea springs to mind. Under the terms of the WA, if you can become resident before the end of the year, you bring your family over later, even next year. So only you need to pack up & move in a hurry.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Barriej said:


> So if you get here 1st December you can apply for residency on the 1st March 2021 at the earliest.
> As you were here and can prove it (bank transactions, airline tickets) you still qualify under the Brexit agreement.
> 
> These requirements are from Alicante where we will be applying, from other areas the amount etc will be different.


One snag is if you have a UK driving licence and you want to continue driving in Spain (your own car, hire car when you need one etc), unless you start the licence exchange process before the end of the year (for which you need residency document - TIE), you will have to pass driving test in Spanish. It's possible that Spain may allow extra time to exchange licence without requiring passing driving test (theory and practical), but there is no news about it.


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## infrid (Sep 5, 2016)

xabiaxica said:


> Usually I'd suggest calling them.
> 
> 
> One idea springs to mind. Under the terms of the WA, if you can become resident before the end of the year, you bring your family over later, even next year. So only you need to pack up & move in a hurry.



yes. that might be an option (we'd rather avoid splitting up the family during turbulent times, of course).

Who does one call? sorry that's not at all clear to me.

I'll call whoever I need to first thing Monday, if know who to call.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

infrid said:


> yes. that might be an option (we'd rather avoid splitting up the family during turbulent times, of course).
> 
> Who does one call? sorry that's not at all clear to me.
> 
> I'll call whoever I need to first thing Monday, if know who to call.


The extranjeria office to which you make your residency application.


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## Glynb (Oct 6, 2016)

infrid said:


> What would happen in that case? As I understand it, they're not even doing appointments now; but having an application before December 31st is enough to secure the TIE. The only bit I'm unsure of is this 3 month requirement.
> 
> I can't even fly to Spain today if I wanted; it's closed for non-spanish citizens from Ecuador, and if I wanted to go, I'd have to quanrentine in the UK (God forbid)


You are British. So why can't you fly to UK, pre-arrange a second connecting flight straight out from UK to Spain? Spain might be blocking people from Equador, but it isn't blocking Brits from UK, no requirement to isolate, and as far as I'm aware travellers on connecting flights don't have to quaratine in UK.

Once in Spain you could get an address, NIE, set up a bank account with regular payments going in, and get the wheels in motion. You'd then start to accumulate the evidence from Oct/Nov/Dec needed to backup up your application for Spanish residency.


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

If your wife is Bolivian then she can apply for residency in Spain circumventing Brexit etc. South America has a different residency arrangement with Spain. My mother in law is from Paraguay. Residency was easy and spanish citizenship was granted in 5 years. Once your wife has it you can then apply under her umbrella.


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

Barriej said:


> So if you get here 1st December you can apply for residency on the 1st March 2021 at the earliest.


Why do you say that?

You can actually apply on 1st December! You just have to meet the criteria of funds/income etc. You do NOT have to show 3 months of bank statements if you have savings (for example)


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

snikpoh said:


> Barriej said:
> 
> 
> > So if you get here 1st December you can apply for residency on the 1st March 2021 at the earliest.
> ...


I wouldn't be sure about the 3 months of statements. Many people applying for TIE have said that in some offices it has been asked for. As we all know nothing about this is fixed in stone or consistent in all areas


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## Catalunya22 (Apr 25, 2020)

kaipa said:


> I wouldn't be sure about the 3 months of statements. Many people applying for TIE have said that in some offices it has been asked for. As we all know nothing about this is fixed in stone or consistent in all areas


I wasn´t asked for any bank statements.
I had with me a letter from my Spanish bank stating how much was in there...that was all...

This was in Barcelona.


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## Pipeman (Apr 1, 2016)

Another important point, if you gain residency before Dec 31st then your future rights for pension and healthcare are assured under the terms of the WA


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## infrid (Sep 5, 2016)

Catalunya22 said:


> I wasn´t asked for any bank statements.
> I had with me a letter from my Spanish bank stating how much was in there...that was all...
> 
> This was in Barcelona.



thanks for chiming in. Really appreciate it.

Where did you show this info? I've got an idea bout how to apply for an online appointment; but I don't know what the ministry/agency/whatever is called so I can find a phone to call. 

Is there a website/phone number?
Thanks


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## Glynb (Oct 6, 2016)

infrid said:


> thanks for chiming in. Really appreciate it.
> 
> Where did you show this info? I've got an idea bout how to apply for an online appointment; but I don't know what the ministry/agency/whatever is called so I can find a phone to call.
> 
> ...


Please be aware that the requirements vary depending on the area and how the rules are being interpreted. Granada is where you said you wanted to end up, not Barcelona? I got my Residencia in Alicante and can confirm that Bank Statements were definitely required in Valencia, a bank paying in book was rejected, they had to be actual statements (stamped and signed by the bank). The clerk looked at the statements to check.

You can book an appointment for Residencia at this following link and can probably work out how to get in touch with them from the help section:
https://sede.administracionespublicas.gob.es/icpplus/index.html


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## SonicToo (Sep 19, 2020)

infrid said:


> I also found this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Hi. Re the amounts you posted. Is that from an 'official source'? As this is the very thing I've been trying to find out.

I won't have a regular monthly income to show for any official residency purposes and am trying to find out for sure if a certain amount in a bank account is allowed as an alternative to a regular income and also exactly how much.


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

SonicToo said:


> Hi. Re the amounts you posted. Is that from an 'official source'? As this is the very thing I've been trying to find out.
> 
> I won't have a regular monthly income to show for any official residency purposes and am trying to find out for sure if a certain amount in a bank account is allowed as an alternative to a regular income and also exactly how much.


As above, I’m not sure an amount in a bank will suffice, unless it’s a large amount. In my area it’s a combination of both a regular income and money in the bank if the income is not sufficient. At the moment the income is €12kpp income. You need to speak to a local gestor or the local office to determine exactly what the requirements are. Every location is different there are no hard and fast rules..that is Spain


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## Catalunya22 (Apr 25, 2020)

SonicToo said:


> Hi. Re the amounts you posted. Is that from an 'official source'? As this is the very thing I've been trying to find out.
> 
> I won't have a regular monthly income to show for any official residency purposes and am trying to find out for sure if a certain amount in a bank account is allowed as an alternative to a regular income and also exactly how much.



In Barcelona I just showed a letter from my bank stating how much I had in the account...it was 34,000 euros. They didn´t ask about any regular income, but each area differs.


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

My advice is to find a local gestor who has experience doing residency in your area. These people will know the nuances of the local offices. There is no point in looking for official advice as it really varies from place to place. Get a Spanish gestor to do the process for you which is probably worth the 100 euros they will charge


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## GerryJ (Sep 22, 2020)

Barriej said:


> We moved over in August.
> You will be ok to move end of November.
> 
> You will need to open a Spanish non resident account and put your money in.
> ...


1st look at the forum. 1st post... and it is one of grateful thanks for putting my mind at rest.

Always been my plan to spend the rest of my life in Spain... but in a couple of years. Circumstances have changed with the joyous news today that I'm being made redundant next week... not being sarcastic  

Visited a friend in Oliva at the beginning of the month, and instantly gelled with the place. I got an offer of a long term house let last week from someone I met on the trip, and everything is just falling into place. 

I'm past retirement age now, so is there any advice you can give an old git who'll be arriving at the end of Oct?


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## Catalunya22 (Apr 25, 2020)

infrid said:


> thanks for chiming in. Really appreciate it.
> 
> Where did you show this info? I've got an idea bout how to apply for an online appointment; but I don't know what the ministry/agency/whatever is called so I can find a phone to call.
> 
> ...


Where will you be based.? Ah, I´ve just noticed. Oliva...I only know about Barcelona. Everywhere seems to be different.
You need the EXTRANJERIA Office first...the Foreigners office.

Anyway....as long as you are here by the end of the year you will be ok...And Good Luck.
Just think of it this way....in a few months there will be millions of jobs lost in the UK....here too....but as you are past retirement age it shouldn´t be a problem.


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## SonicToo (Sep 19, 2020)

Hi. I've just read through this thread again.

It seems that most people are saying that you need to have money in a Spanish bank account for 3 months before you can apply for residency.

This would suggest that the OP wouldn't be able to turn up in November and put money into an account and apply for residency before December 31st, right?

Similarly I won't be able to do the same (as my plan is to come in the 2nd week in October).


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## MataMata (Nov 30, 2008)

Pipeman said:


> Another important point, if you gain residency before Dec 31st then your future rights for pension and healthcare are assured under the terms of the WA


No. 

It's if you gain residency under the WA terms which give you 6 months AFTER Dec 31st.

Try reading it!


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## infrid (Sep 5, 2016)

tried getting in touch with them.. just a robot on a phone (literally, not being snarky).

Impossible to book appointments in granada, where I want to live.

almost tempted to rent some cheap crappy apartment in a city where I can get an appointment, and lose the rental deposit and move out once I get the TIE card.

Only thing I'm still not sure of, is the 3 months min bank balance. some folks say I have to wait 3 months to apply; but I still can if I'm here before December 31st. I never understood it like that. I read it as if I was _eligible_ before December 31st.

I think the best bet is get a gestor. I spoke to balcells lawyers; but from what I gather, after spending hundreds of dollars getting conflicting advice from them, is that they won't even do the process for me, they'll just speak to me online..

Anyone can recommend a good gestor to contact? or how to find one?

Thanks.


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## Morrissey007 (Mar 20, 2019)

We came over to Malaga province in August this year and these are the FACTS as at today (for this province only of course, others may differ, and I say today as the rules are already tighter now than maybe some of the other posters had experienced) as we're going through our residency application right now ; we have had to provide Minimum 6 months of bank statements and these have had to show a minimum income every month, and never have been overdrawn and we were required to pay to have them translated by an approved translator. We have had to get private health insurance, this can be anything from 1,000 to 20,000 per annum depending on your medical history and a full year paid for, not monthly instsllments which would not have been accepted. We have had to provide proof of a minimum 6 months rental. We had to be registered on the Padron. We had to have NIES. It's taken until now to get all this together, our application was submitted today. This application will take around a month due to "the sheer volume of residency applications". So if you're thinking of November it's going to be tight/impossible and frankly I can't see you making it (it took us just 2 weeks to get our local Ayuntamiento to issue our Padron certificate), I would get your NIEs now, get a gestor or company that specialise in helping obtain residency. Good luck!


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## Catalunya22 (Apr 25, 2020)

But even if you arrive at the end of December you will be able to apply and have the rights under Article 50 and I8.4
You don´t need to have received your TIE by then........Just BE HERE before the end of the year.


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## infrid (Sep 5, 2016)

Catalunya22 said:


> But even if you arrive at the end of December you will be able to apply and have the rights under Article 50 and I8.4
> You don´t need to have received your TIE by then........Just BE HERE before the end of the year.


This is the bit I'm unsure about. My spanish is pretty good, and the law to me looks like it says if you are ELIGIBLE before December 31st, not PRESENT.

Where do you get this info from Catalyunya22, coz I would happliy come to Spain in December, if this was true and I could apply for my TIE in the new year, having gotten the minimum rental period, bank statements, etc together.


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

infrid said:


> This is the bit I'm unsure about. My spanish is pretty good, and the law to me looks like it says if you are ELIGIBLE before December 31st, not PRESENT.
> 
> Where do you get this info from Catalyunya22, coz I would happliy come to Spain in December, if this was true and I could apply for my TIE in the new year, having gotten the minimum rental period, bank statements, etc together.


You MUST be able to prove that you are living here by 31-12-2020. You then have until June 2021 to complete the process. I believe it is all documented in the withdrawal agreement


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## infrid (Sep 5, 2016)

snikpoh said:


> You MUST be able to prove that you are living here by 31-12-2020. You then have until June 2021 to complete the process. I believe it is all documented in the withdrawal agreement


I know I'm really dragging this out, and I'm so sorry; it's just leaving Ecuador during covid, with kids. .man.. it's a tough one. I want to make sure I'm right.

So in your opinion, are you saying that, having a bank account in December, and rental contract, and health insurance, and money in the bank, will be enough, or does "prove you are living here" mean "prove you have been here for 3 months, prior to 31st December"?

I know at some point this all comes down to human beings and conversations; but if I know my chances are totally zero, we'll wait in Ecuador and apply for visas, you see. That's the very worst case scenario for us, though. I can assure you.

Related question.

If I do come in December, and if by the grace of God my wife get's an emergency visa to travel with us (embassy said she would), but I wont' get my residency for several months, what would happen if she ends up at the end of her visa period? Could she still get the residency if she's in the country; but has overstayed her tourist visa at that point?

Bolivian's have such a crappy time getting visas, if the embassy here offers us clemency, I'd not wager that she'd get that again, and might get stuck outside the country for a whole year. rocks and hard places all around.


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## Morrissey007 (Mar 20, 2019)

Don't forget you must also be on the Padron too before you can apply for residency


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## Catalunya22 (Apr 25, 2020)

infrid said:


> This is the bit I'm unsure about. My spanish is pretty good, and the law to me looks like it says if you are ELIGIBLE before December 31st, not PRESENT.
> 
> Where do you get this info from Catalyunya22, coz I would happliy come to Spain in December, if this was true and I could apply for my TIE in the new year, having gotten the minimum rental period, bank statements, etc together.


It is in all the OFFICIAL documents about the TIE issued by the Spanish authorities in Spanish and English.


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## Catalunya22 (Apr 25, 2020)

infrid said:


> I know I'm really dragging this out, and I'm so sorry; it's just leaving Ecuador during covid, with kids. .man.. it's a tough one. I want to make sure I'm right.
> 
> So in your opinion, are you saying that, having a bank account in December, and rental contract, and health insurance, and money in the bank, will be enough, or does "prove you are living here" mean "prove you have been here for 3 months, prior to 31st December"?
> 
> ...


You don´t need to have been living here for 3 months by 31st December.....you just need to BE HERE by 31st December. It is in all the OFFICIAL information issued by the Spanish Government.


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## Sally Sunshine (Apr 16, 2020)

Hello I'm not resident in Spain, but I've just come to Cyprus to do exactly what you are planning to do in Spain, so MAYBE it is similar. I came here at the end of August. The immigration authorities want me to open a local bank account with minimum €5,000 in it and I must have 3 months of local bank statements to show when I go for my immigration appointment in November. I must also show the immigration office that I have a local rental agreement for a period of 12 months and I must also show that I have 3 months of utility bills in my name. I have transferred the water account into my name for this purpose. I am also dealing with lawyers to assist me in the process. One person in the lawyer's office told me I only have to prove €500/month income, and another person in the same office told me I also need to have about €30k in a bank account AND prove that I also have an income (so which is the truth? I wish I knew!). I have to show documents to prove that I get an income every month, i.e.: pay slips if I am working (even working abroad is fine), or a rental agreement and bank statements if I have a property abroad that I am renting out and receive a rental income, or if I have a pension, or if I have dividends from investments, etc., etc. I'm not saying that Spain will be the same as Cyprus, but this is just to give you a guideline as Cyprus is also an EU country. I have also heard that so long as I have LANDED in Cyprus before 31.12.2020 it will be fine to still have my immigration appointment in 2021, but for my own peace of mind, I wanted to get my immigration appointment AND get my residence permit well before the end of 2020 - just in case the authorities would ever turn around in years to come and tell me that my permit was only issued after Brexit, so therefore it doesn't count.... If I were you, I would try to get to Spain ASAP, just to be on the safe side. Make sure your rental agreement has original signatures of both the landlord and the tenant (yourself). I didn't know that my landlord lives abroad and this has caused a 1 month delay in me getting a lease agreement with his original signature on it because it has to be sent in the post from abroad! All the best of luck....!


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

I think what is occurring is that offices have been told to determine if you are actually living here and not just trying to get registered and then return to UK as some people think this is possible. If you turn up and immediately apply they probably are trying to assess the legitimacy of your claim, hence the need for documentation that shows you are living here. This is why they want a Spanish account which is being used actively. The same for Padron etc. They probably work on the idea that a tourist is here for up to 3 months and then needs to apply. My advice for anyone doing this is get a local gestor to do it for you.


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## Catalunya22 (Apr 25, 2020)

kaipa said:


> I think what is occurring is that offices have been told to determine if you are actually living here and not just trying to get registered and then return to UK as some people think this is possible. If you turn up and immediately apply they probably are trying to assess the legitimacy of your claim, hence the need for documentation that shows you are living here. This is why they want a Spanish account which is being used actively. The same for Padron etc. They probably work on the idea that a tourist is here for up to 3 months and then needs to apply. My advice for anyone doing this is get a local gestor to do it for you.


The Spanish will have to extend the date for applying for a TIE....I read somewhere that you have until 30 June next year to apply....as long as you can prove you have been living here since the end of December


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## infrid (Sep 5, 2016)

Thank you everyone.

you are so gracious and helpful. I really appreciate it. I'll ask my question about wifey's situation on a separate thread.


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## Sea Breeze (Nov 18, 2020)

infrid said:


> Thank you everyone.
> 
> you are so gracious and helpful. I really appreciate it. I'll ask my question about wifey's situation on a separate thread.


Hi Infrid, How did you get on? I am considering doing the same as you in ( Lanzaroty ) and I was getting confused then found this forum post. I contacted someone and they are saying I have to become a fiscal resident so effectivly emigrate to Spain, not just prove residency This does not sound acturate. I would appreicate any info you have?


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Sea Breeze said:


> Hi Infrid, How did you get on? I am considering doing the same as you in ( Lanzaroty ) and I was getting confused then found this forum post. I contacted someone and they are saying I have to become a fiscal resident so effectivly emigrate to Spain, not just prove residency This does not sound acturate. I would appreicate any info you have?


The issue is that to retain the right to residency you have to spend more than half the year in Spain. That makes you automatically a fiscal resident except in one or two extremely specific & difficult to prove circumstances. 

Logical really. Being a resident means that you live here. That you have emigrated here to do so.


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## MataMata (Nov 30, 2008)

Since posting in this topic earlier I've been made aware of facts which contradict the statement I made, repeated by others, regarding having 6 months in 2021 to apply for residency provided that you are living in Spain before the end of the year.

In brief under the WA EU member states were free to decide between two types of residency systems, Constitutive or Declaratory. Spain has chosen the Declaratory system.

Under the Constitutive system there is indeed a grace period of 6 months from the end of the transition period on 31.12.2020 but for the Declaratory system the door shuts on that date hence the imperative to at least get a residency application in the system before that, this does not require an appointment as it can be done completely online using the Modelo EX20 and once that is approved then delays in continuing with an application via the EX23 are of no real consequence.

Note that the information currently on the Welcome to GOV.UK web site is misleading as it fails to point out the distinction between the Constitutive and Declaratory systems and simply states:

*Moving to another EU country*

*You can still move to another EU country, on the same terms as before 31 January 2020, until the transition period ends on 31 December 2020. You will have until at least 30 June 2021 to apply for a residence status in that country, if you need to*.

The true position is as per this document.


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## incatalunya (Nov 16, 2020)

MataMata said:


> Since posting in this topic earlier I've been made aware of facts which contradict the statement I made, repeated by others, regarding having 6 months in 2021 to apply for residency provided that you are living in Spain before the end of the year.
> 
> In brief under the WA EU member states were free to decide between two types of residency systems, Constitutive or Declaratory. Spain has chosen the Declaratory system.
> 
> ...


So are you saying if you arrive on the last day of the year, you have no chance?


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## MataMata (Nov 30, 2008)

Yes.

Regardless of anything else though it's patently ridiculous to think that you could arrive on the final day and claim it meant that you were living here!

Frankly I'd say that anybody arriving pretty much from now but who hadn't done any groundwork such acquiring their NIE, buying or renting a property, getting a bank account set up etc. might find themselves struggling to justify that claim.


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## incatalunya (Nov 16, 2020)

MataMata said:


> Yes.
> 
> Regardless of anything else though it's patently ridiculous to think that you could arrive on the final day and claim it meant that you were living here!
> 
> Frankly I'd say that anybody arriving pretty much from now but who hadn't done any groundwork such acquiring their NIE, buying or renting a property, getting a bank account set up etc. might find themselves struggling to justify that claim.


I´m not disagreeing with you....I´m just asking the question.
I thought that as long as you were here by the end of the year you had until 30 June to get your TIE.
I bow to your better knowledge though, but the official guidelines are not very clear for people to fully understand.
Just one example, the British Consulate say that after you have lived here for 5 years you are entitled to free healthcare....but assuming you are not of retirement age I have no idea why they are saying that. How?


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## incatalunya (Nov 16, 2020)

As you say yourself...you have said this in the past yourself along with many other people ....me included


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## MataMata (Nov 30, 2008)

I agree it can be confusing and it's not at all helped by the UK government issuing advice in separate places which contradict each other.

Based on what I've recently learnt about the Constitutive and Declaratory systems, and the date of the document I've taken it from (Oct 16th), and the Spanish government's official guide to the process it's clear that Dec 31st. is the deadline for applications (EX20 submission and approval) NOT arrival or proof of living here prior to that even if it has been for 3 months or more. 

To quote from that guide:

*For those arriving in Spain after 6 July and in order to avoid double requests 
(certificate of registration of a citizen of the EU and residence document) a 
procedure for issuing residence documents under the Agreement during the 
transition period has been designed. Once this procedure is operational (6 
July), applications for registration certificates or residence cards for the 
family member of the Union citizen submitted by the beneficiaries of the 
Agreement shall be processed as applications for the residence document 
referred to in Article 18.4 of the Agreement.*

It then goes on to say:

*Both Brexit and the Withdrawal Agreement make it necessary to know which 
UK nationals reside in Spain before the end of the transition period and 
which ones arrive after that date. 
This is because the former, those who reside in Spain before 31 December 
2020, will have the rights of residence, free movement and social security 
recognised by the Withdrawal Agreement. While those who arrive after that 
date will have different rights, either those that recognise the future 
relationship between the EU and the United Kingdom, or, in its absence, 
those recognised by Spanish law.*


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## incatalunya (Nov 16, 2020)

It still doesn´t make sense though...You could arrive on 31 December and become a resident surely.....or am I getting it all wrong.


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

incatalunya said:


> It still doesn´t make sense though...You could arrive on 31 December and become a resident surely.....or am I getting it all wrong.



Not in reality. If you haven't been able to get registered before the 31st of Dec you would need to provide evidence that you were actually living permanently in Spain prior to this. That means some kind of substainsl proof.Just walking in and announcing tthat you are here wont be enough. I imagine if you have started the process then they will let you continue but there again different offices will deal with it in different ways.


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## incatalunya (Nov 16, 2020)

kaipa said:


> Not in reality. If you haven't been able to get registered before the 31st of Dec you would need to provide evidence that you were actually living permanently in Spain prior to this. That means some kind of substainsl proof.Just walking in and announcing tthat you are here wont be enough. I imagine if you have started the process then they will let you continue but there again different offices will deal with it in different ways.


Well not long to go now. I guess there will be a lot of people panicking about getting a TIE and changing their driving licences. It´s difficult even to get an appointment, and you can forget the last 10 days in December.....everywhere will be all but closed.


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## MataMata (Nov 30, 2008)

incatalunya said:


> Well not long to go now. I guess there will be a lot of people panicking about getting a TIE and changing their driving licences. It´s difficult even to get an appointment, and you can forget the last 10 days in December.....everywhere will be all but closed.


An initial residency application (Modelo EX-20) does not require an appointment, it can be done wholly online either through a lawyer or by yourself if you have a digital certificate. It can also be done by phone.

There is also a new facility on the DGT website for pre registering a driving licence but you still need to be quick as the receiving of validation of a licence from DVLA is the key ingredient and that inevitably needs some time.


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