# Hindsight?



## biscuit

Just wondering if anyone 'out there' (in Egypt) can give me the benefit of hindsight before I get carried away with relocating?

Is there anything you would have done differently or wish you had known before making the move?

What I am looking for is if you could go back and tell yourself anything before you made the move what would it be! 

Those who have lived in Egypt all their lives must have some gems? I could offer so much about the NE of England.

Bit late at 40 to become a 'free spirit' but it looks like thats happening whether I like it or not.


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## MaidenScotland

Hi Biscuit and welcome to the forum.

I am not really the person to give you gems about this as I came here just to work although it has been many years I do not consider this my home.
We all come for different reasons sometimes it works sometimes it doesn't.
Personally I would not live here if it wasn't for my job, but saying that I have an English friend who lives here because she wants to and is very happy.

Maiden


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## biscuit

Thanks, what is it that makes you feel that you would not live there out of choice? 

My whole adult life I've hankerd after living abroad and investigated many places. 

Until recently I worked in a job that was very regimented, you wouldn't dare express a non PC thought or do anything to express individuality if it wasn't written in policy (policy, policy, policy...). There are people who bend the rules but I can not sleep if I so much as miss dotting an i so after 20 years I got out.

I intend to keep our home in England as my hubby doesn't want to quit his job yet so we would be travelling to and from whenever possible.

I am at the fledgling stages of looking at Egypt at it ticks many boxes (more than Oz or Canada). We intend to visit many times before committing to try to be as sure as possible.

Sorry if that's bored you!

Biscuit


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## MaidenScotland

Ohh Biscuit you may have opened a can of worms with me lol
Why would I not live here other than for work...
I would say the biggest reasons are the fact as a foreigner I am expected to pay well over the odds for anything I buy unless it is from a supermarket, it is not the money it is the principle. 
I hate the filth and it is filthy here in Cairo
I hate the basic lack of hygiene. I was in a local bakers and the chap was picking at his shoe, then he tried to pick up a loaf and sell it to me... he couldn't understand why I walked out.
I hate the constant hinting for money... maids etc constantly tell you that their child is ill and they have to buy medicine or some equally heart wrenching tale.... I was a walking bank when I first came out here.
I work here and do jobs that are well out of my contract but I never say ohh that is not my job, here if you ask an Egyptian to do something I constantly get .. but that is not my job regardless that they might be sitting and have sat for hours doing nothing.

What do I like
The weather
The friends I have met here.
The sound of the call to prayer
The flight home for my holiday 

Maiden


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## biscuit

Bless you.

On the same note...

I am sick of the horrible bored young people who have not been taught any form of morals whatsoever. I do two afternoons a week in a friends Newsagents, I had an awful day yesterday as one guy got his bike stolen from outside, I had a confrontation with the 'boy' who did it and he literally is a lost cause even his friends were telling him to stop speaking to me the way he was!

I then stopped one of the new eastern european settlers from simply and blatantly walking out with unpaid for stock, he was taller than me and was in my face. Fortunately I have a lot of experience of dealing with conflict and the best and worst of society however I fear for others who do not. 

God I could go on and on about this country it makes me so sad that a few people with a lot of power have ruined it for the majority of decent people who live here (and I mean of all creeds etc; my best friend is Polish and she would hate to be tarred with the brush that I have read about on the posts). I live in an area which people say is 'posh' but my husband got punched in the face simply walking home last summer, the youth who did it went to Youth court and together with a number of other charges basically got nothing. He had Previous convictions as long as my arm and is 17. Sadly it is not really his fault, he was high on drugs and alcohol, has been badly let down by society beginning with parenting and on it goes. 

In Egypt I saw boys younger than that working many hours a day I assume they don't have the energy/motivation to waste their precious time off in such a fashion? Please correct me if I am wrong?

It just seems that most of us have had enough and are leaving (I have tried to do something about it many times which has literally broken my heart) I am not old (40 in March) I have been around the block a few times (ha ha).

Also re the being overcharged for everything doesn't that happen here but in a more sly way? Everyone just gets charged the same...Eggs, milk, bread and potatoes should be made really cheap so that those with very little can afford to feed their families (the ones who have lost their jods in the recession etc) but they aren't, half a dozen eggs is about 90p. Shame on you big supermarkets.

If you saw the amount of offtakes on my hubbys salary it's a joke and then Council tax, cost of fuel oh dear shut me up!!

I have enjoyed this though thanks


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## MaidenScotland

biscuit said:


> Bless you.
> 
> On the same note...
> 
> I am sick of the horrible bored young people who have not been taught any form of morals whatsoever. I do two afternoons a week in a friends Newsagents, I had an awful day yesterday as one guy got his bike stolen from outside, I had a confrontation with the 'boy' who did it and he literally is a lost cause even his friends were telling him to stop speaking to me the way he was!
> 
> I then stopped one of the new eastern european settlers from simply and blatantly walking out with unpaid for stock, he was taller than me and was in my face. Fortunately I have a lot of experience of dealing with conflict and the best and worst of society however I fear for others who do not.
> 
> God I could go on and on about this country it makes me so sad that a few people with a lot of power have ruined it for the majority of decent people who live here (and I mean of all creeds etc; my best friend is Polish and she would hate to be tarred with the brush that I have read about on the posts). I live in an area which people say is 'posh' but my husband got punched in the face simply walking home last summer, the youth who did it went to Youth court and together with a number of other charges basically got nothing. He had Previous convictions as long as my arm and is 17. Sadly it is not really his fault, he was high on drugs and alcohol, has been badly let down by society beginning with parenting and on it goes.
> 
> In Egypt I saw boys younger than that working many hours a day I assume they don't have the energy/motivation to waste their precious time off in such a fashion? Please correct me if I am wrong?
> 
> It just seems that most of us have had enough and are leaving (I have tried to do something about it many times which has literally broken my heart) I am not old (40 in March) I have been around the block a few times (ha ha).
> 
> Also re the being overcharged for everything doesn't that happen here but in a more sly way? Everyone just gets charged the same...Eggs, milk, bread and potatoes should be made really cheap so that those with very little can afford to feed their families (the ones who have lost their jods in the recession etc) but they aren't, half a dozen eggs is about 90p. Shame on you big supermarkets.
> 
> If you saw the amount of offtakes on my hubbys salary it's a joke and then Council tax, cost of fuel oh dear shut me up!!
> 
> I have enjoyed this though thanks


Biscuit Hi

Just because there are no crime statistics here or if they are believe me the figures will be doctored there is crime.. just because we don't read it doesn't mean it doesn't go on.
Drugs.. plenty of drug addicts here, only two years ago a friend of mine was murdered by her son when he was high on drugs.. the only reason he has not been hung is that he also holds a British passport.
Another friends son is a heroin addict.. called brown sugar here.
Mugging... it goes on plenty but the police do nothing or little about it, my friend had the gold chain from her neck snatched and the police watched as she chased the guy up the road. One man has had his wallet taken, and one woman I know of has been mugged twice in the same street, another guy who lives next door to an embassy came home to find someone lifting his television
I have been sexually molested in the lift of the building I used to live in.
Friend who had their laptop in the boot of their car was stuck in traffic and someone walked behind just opened the boot and took the laptop.
Another doctor friend had his bag sitting on the passenger seat again stuck in traffic and a guy just put his hand in and took the bag, luckily there were no drugs in the bag.

Now these are people that I know, not someone told someone and so on and so on.. I personally find that a pretty high figure for a country that says there is only petty crime.

On another note, did you know foreigners have to have an HIV test here when they are getting a working visa? Egyptians don't have HIV.. it is only foreigners who get it! There are no homosexuals in Egypt lol now that is the biggest laugh

Maiden


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## josmiler05

biscuit said:


> Thanks, what is it that makes you feel that you would not live there out of choice?
> 
> My whole adult life I've hankerd after living abroad and investigated many places.
> 
> Until recently I worked in a job that was very regimented, you wouldn't dare express a non PC thought or do anything to express individuality if it wasn't written in policy (policy, policy, policy...). There are people who bend the rules but I can not sleep if I so much as miss dotting an i so after 20 years I got out.
> 
> I intend to keep our home in England as my hubby doesn't want to quit his job yet so we would be travelling to and from whenever possible.
> 
> I am at the fledgling stages of looking at Egypt at it ticks many boxes (more than Oz or Canada). We intend to visit many times before committing to try to be as sure as possible.
> 
> Sorry if that's bored you!
> 
> Biscuit


Hi Biscuit,
Your thread sounds familiar! I have longed to move abroad for several years, in 2007 I had a holiday in Sharm and loved it, went again and bought an apartment as investment to start with but now I am looking to spend alot more time there! The weather is amazing and I love the fact we spend more time outside when there.Its very relaxed, once you get over being hassled alot and remember to haggle for everything! What part of Egypt were you looking at?
There is a lady on here called Sam who has given me lots of good info.


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## Beatle

biscuit said:


> Just wondering if anyone 'out there' (in Egypt) can give me the benefit of hindsight before I get carried away with relocating?
> 
> Is there anything you would have done differently or wish you had known before making the move?
> 
> What I am looking for is if you could go back and tell yourself anything before you made the move what would it be!
> 
> Those who have lived in Egypt all their lives must have some gems? I could offer so much about the NE of England.
> 
> Bit late at 40 to become a 'free spirit' but it looks like thats happening whether I like it or not.


I guess the answer to your question may partly depend on where you want to live. There are pros and cons to the different areas.


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## Sam

MaidenScotland said:


> Biscuit Hi
> 
> Just because there are no crime statistics here or if they are believe me the figures will be doctored there is crime.. just because we don't read it doesn't mean it doesn't go on.
> Drugs.. plenty of drug addicts here, only two years ago a friend of mine was murdered by her son when he was high on drugs.. the only reason he has not been hung is that he also holds a British passport.
> Another friends son is a heroin addict.. called brown sugar here.
> Mugging... it goes on plenty but the police do nothing or little about it, my friend had the gold chain from her neck snatched and the police watched as she chased the guy up the road. One man has had his wallet taken, and one woman I know of has been mugged twice in the same street, another guy who lives next door to an embassy came home to find someone lifting his television
> I have been sexually molested in the lift of the building I used to live in.
> Friend who had their laptop in the boot of their car was stuck in traffic and someone walked behind just opened the boot and took the laptop.
> Another doctor friend had his bag sitting on the passenger seat again stuck in traffic and a guy just put his hand in and took the bag, luckily there were no drugs in the bag.
> 
> Now these are people that I know, not someone told someone and so on and so on.. I personally find that a pretty high figure for a country that says there is only petty crime.
> 
> On another note, did you know foreigners have to have an HIV test here when they are getting a working visa? Egyptians don't have HIV.. it is only foreigners who get it! There are no homosexuals in Egypt lol now that is the biggest laugh
> 
> Maiden


WOW!!!!! 

That is a lot of crime in Cairo!!!!!
I know of a few isolated crimes in Sharm, but nothing to that extent. And I would tend to agree on the police doing nothing opinion too, although mostly because the majority of police you see around are traffic police and I think they have some kind of stupid rules where they cannot leave their post under any circumstances, so them running after the robber would actually get them in trouble. I'd like to think the tourist police here might help - but I've no personal experience either way to comment.

Did you know that foreigners, if married to an Egyptian, are exempted from the HIV test?? Apparently their immunity is as contagious as our diseases?!


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## MaidenScotland

Did you know that foreigners, if married to an Egyptian, are exempted from the HIV test?? Apparently their immunity is as contagious as our diseases?!


And to think the cure for H.I.V. is here in Egypt lol

Maiden


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## Sam

biscuit said:


> Just wondering if anyone 'out there' (in Egypt) can give me the benefit of hindsight before I get carried away with relocating?
> 
> Is there anything you would have done differently or wish you had known before making the move?
> 
> What I am looking for is if you could go back and tell yourself anything before you made the move what would it be!
> 
> Those who have lived in Egypt all their lives must have some gems? I could offer so much about the NE of England.
> 
> Bit late at 40 to become a 'free spirit' but it looks like thats happening whether I like it or not.



With the gift of hindsight I would certainly do a few things differently, but I have never regretted a single day of living in Sharm.

What would I have done differently:
I would have bought a property immediately, given the prices have almost doubled since I arrived.
I would have exchanged ALL my money into EGP and put it into a high interest account here (given that the exchange rate was 11.5 when I came)
I would have spent my two months holiday before working more constructively that sleeping all day 
I would have sold my car in the UK before the soft top went mouldy, brakes seized and recession hit.
I would have made more of an effort to learn Arabic (although I realise I am still not making any effort)

So, what do I love about Sharm (I can't say Egypt as life here is so different to elsewhere)...
Weather
People (although they would also come under my list of what I hate, lol)
Being able to go to the beach any time, and guaranteeing it will be hot and sunny
Being able to wear flip flops (almost) all year round
Seeing the sea daily
People don't spend their life complaining, they are (mostly) thankful for what they have
Not having to get out of the car at a petrol station (and not have to spend a months salary to fill the tank)
Being able to order a food delivery, and ask them to pick up a few things from the supermarket on the way
Generally being able to do or get almost anything with a not-so-hefty tip
Being able to sit back and laugh at the behaviour of the tourists (and in some cases think "that used to be me", lol)
Funny phrases you see & hear - like "crap soup" lol, makes me giggle every time. Or when you can take your drink in small, madam or large, lol.

There are many things I love about this place, it's not perfect but I am happy to call it home.


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## DeadGuy

Sam said:


> Did you know that foreigners, if married to an Egyptian, are exempted from the HIV test?? Apparently their immunity is as contagious as our diseases?!



That's the funniest comment I ever heard by anyone anywhere 

But if you have to PAY for the test? then that would explain why you have to take it!


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## biscuit

Ha ha I enjoyed those posts! Off to get son so will answer queries later on.


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## MaidenScotland

Ahhh but it often needs a Brit to understand our humour.


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## biscuit

Thanks Sam.... Interesting and funny.

I am learning Arabic as of today so Ahlan! I like to be able to get by in the countrys I go to so French & Spanish ok, tiny bit of Turkish (enough to order beers etc) Arabic NONE but working on it ha.

I also find the people lovely and awful but because the seem happy it's not so bad when you can't get away. Is it a British thing that we are so polite and frightend to offend that we make our lives difficult? I found walking in a hurry was a useful ploy. Or carrying a McDonalds bag... 

DEAD GUY why do you say unfortunately in Egypt? I suppose I am unfortunately in England...

MAIDEN I can't access the first page of this as my son has the ethernet and I am using offline. However apart from being molested in the lift (except my husband with consent) everything else has happend to me or my nearest and dearest here too, but I do understand what you are saying. We were followed in Marrakesh because we had jewlery on, it was taken off and hidden immediately. People must be desperate to do such things, I had the front window of my car smashed when I was stopped at traffic lights in Newcastle City Centre and the bag I had on the seat was stolen, when I leave my puppy in the car I am terrified that when I get back she'll be gone. It's so sad; whichever country it's happening in, but it will and does happen. I just think if you know that then you are hopefully more prepared and it is less likely to happen to you?

I am now going to borrow the ethernet off my son so I can post this and have a look at MAIDENS post again...


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## biscuit

josmiler05 said:


> Hi Biscuit,
> Your thread sounds familiar! I have longed to move abroad for several years, in 2007 I had a holiday in Sharm and loved it, went again and bought an apartment as investment to start with but now I am looking to spend alot more time there! The weather is amazing and I love the fact we spend more time outside when there.Its very relaxed, once you get over being hassled alot and remember to haggle for everything! What part of Egypt were you looking at?
> There is a lady on here called Sam who has given me lots of good info.


I wouldn't go very far from Sharm if I was to buy a property, I enjoyed Naama Bay, pavement cafes are my thing...people watching one of my past times, London is good for that too.

I like to laugh and be happy and am quite juvenile for my age (ha) I find that I get looked at funny here for being that way. People think there is something wrong with me and 'say your happy' in a condecending way!! I say 'I'm always happy' they don't have a reply for that 

Ha..


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## biscuit

MaidenScotland said:


> Biscuit Hi
> 
> Just because there are no crime statistics here or if they are believe me the figures will be doctored there is crime.. just because we don't read it doesn't mean it doesn't go on.
> Drugs.. plenty of drug addicts here, only two years ago a friend of mine was murdered by her son when he was high on drugs.. the only reason he has not been hung is that he also holds a British passport.
> Another friends son is a heroin addict.. called brown sugar here.
> Mugging... it goes on plenty but the police do nothing or little about it, my friend had the gold chain from her neck snatched and the police watched as she chased the guy up the road. One man has had his wallet taken, and one woman I know of has been mugged twice in the same street, another guy who lives next door to an embassy came home to find someone lifting his television
> I have been sexually molested in the lift of the building I used to live in.
> Friend who had their laptop in the boot of their car was stuck in traffic and someone walked behind just opened the boot and took the laptop.
> Another doctor friend had his bag sitting on the passenger seat again stuck in traffic and a guy just put his hand in and took the bag, luckily there were no drugs in the bag.
> 
> Now these are people that I know, not someone told someone and so on and so on.. I personally find that a pretty high figure for a country that says there is only petty crime.
> 
> On another note, did you know foreigners have to have an HIV test here when they are getting a working visa? Egyptians don't have HIV.. it is only foreigners who get it! There are no homosexuals in Egypt lol now that is the biggest laugh
> 
> Maiden




Crime stats...doctored in this country? Well that would never happen....

Re Hepatitis we've had the jabs so hopefully should be ok...

HIV well thats something else, however if I had it I'd like to know so as long as they use a clean needle. I doubt I'll be ever living 100% in Egypt anyway probably between the two.

I would like however to do voluntary work hopefully in the school which my son will attend. Has anyone done this?


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## MaidenScotland

biscuit said:


> Thanks Sam.... Interesting and funny.
> 
> I am learning Arabic as of today so Ahlan! I like to be able to get by in the countrys I go to so French & Spanish ok, tiny bit of Turkish (enough to order beers etc) Arabic NONE but working on it ha.
> 
> I also find the people lovely and awful but because the seem happy it's not so bad when you can't get away. Is it a British thing that we are so polite and frightend to offend that we make our lives difficult? I found walking in a hurry was a useful ploy. Or carrying a McDonalds bag...
> 
> DEAD GUY why do you say unfortunately in Egypt? I suppose I am unfortunately in England...
> 
> MAIDEN I can't access the first page of this as my son has the ethernet and I am using offline. However apart from being molested in the lift (except my husband with consent) everything else has happend to me or my nearest and dearest here too, but I do understand what you are saying. We were followed in Marrakesh because we had jewlery on, it was taken off and hidden immediately. People must be desperate to do such things, I had the front window of my car smashed when I was stopped at traffic lights in Newcastle City Centre and the bag I had on the seat was stolen, when I leave my puppy in the car I am terrified that when I get back she'll be gone. It's so sad; whichever country it's happening in, but it will and does happen. I just think if you know that then you are hopefully more prepared and it is less likely to happen to you?
> 
> I am now going to borrow the ethernet off my son so I can post this and have a look at MAIDENS post again...



The difference is the UK accepts it has crime... here it is denied.
Thank you for your flippant comment regarding my molesting I just hope it doesn't happen to you.

Maiden


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## DeadGuy

biscuit said:


> Thanks Sam.... Interesting and funny.
> 
> I am learning Arabic as of today so Ahlan! I like to be able to get by in the countrys I go to so French & Spanish ok, tiny bit of Turkish (enough to order beers etc) Arabic NONE but working on it ha.
> 
> I also find the people lovely and awful but because the seem happy it's not so bad when you can't get away. Is it a British thing that we are so polite and frightend to offend that we make our lives difficult? I found walking in a hurry was a useful ploy. Or carrying a McDonalds bag...
> 
> DEAD GUY why do you say unfortunately in Egypt? I suppose I am unfortunately in England...
> 
> MAIDEN I can't access the first page of this as my son has the ethernet and I am using offline. However apart from being molested in the lift (except my husband with consent) everything else has happend to me or my nearest and dearest here too, but I do understand what you are saying. We were followed in Marrakesh because we had jewlery on, it was taken off and hidden immediately. People must be desperate to do such things, I had the front window of my car smashed when I was stopped at traffic lights in Newcastle City Centre and the bag I had on the seat was stolen, when I leave my puppy in the car I am terrified that when I get back she'll be gone. It's so sad; whichever country it's happening in, but it will and does happen. I just think if you know that then you are hopefully more prepared and it is less likely to happen to you?
> 
> I am now going to borrow the ethernet off my son so I can post this and have a look at MAIDENS post again...



Well, things in here are a bit different, MaidenScotland was right about things in here being denied, and not just that! but people in here are loving being in denial as well!!! In UK or any other country you can report whatever unfortunate incident that happens, and you will get at least some response, but in here??? things are totally different, I'm not gonna go through any details cause that pissed some people in here off, so that's all I can say.


So my advice would be like that: if you're planning to move in here? even if a "part time" as you said that you're doubting that you'd be living in here 100%??? just try it in here first, rent a place instead of buying one, take a look how things are going in here, and see if both your family and yourself would fit in here or not before you just "move" to here.


Being in a place for a holiday isn't the same as living in that place, even if not a "100%" living there; so just try it first, and I think that you already know that everyone looks at things from their own perspective, what makes someone happy won't necessarily make everyone happy, so may be I hate it in here or others do, but you might like it! so just start with a trial before you commit yourself to it.


Good luck with whatever you're gonna decide!


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## biscuit

MaidenScotland said:


> The difference is the UK accepts it has crime... here it is denied.
> Thank you for your flippant comment regarding my molesting I just hope it doesn't happen to you.
> 
> Maiden


It has happend to me but I chose not to disclose that as I was young at the time.

I find that some people on this site are so sensitive to everything...allegations of racism etc for expressing free thought.

I am sorry if I offended you but I have lived for too long worrying about everything I did and said and have released myself from that (taking a massive financial loss). If I can't be myself I will withdraw from making comments and simply read what other people post instead.

Thank you all for your lovely info....


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## MensEtManus

I came to Egypt for work and quite honestly for the opportunity to build a business. Looking back, I guess the amount of cash is simply not worth the humiliation, fear, and loneliness that came out of this whole mess. Now, I have a lot of sunk cost, and it is extremely difficult to liquidate my assets and leave. However, in the long run, I am planning to liquidate and leave. I would rather have a simple 9-5 job over in the USA than the life I have created for myself here. 

Once upon a time Alexandria was beautiful I was mesmerized with its beauty, its people, its weather and the opportunity to create a successful business. 

The weather is still the same; however, I feel all the Alexandrian citizens are now replaced with fanatics and fundamentalists who simply hate foreigners. Once upon a time, my business was flourishing, and slowly the demand for my product started to diminish. The reason was because the competition started claiming I was a Jew and things never became the same. The competition even went to the several dozen government agencies claiming I was a Jew and this company is creating products to destroy the Egyptian fiber. Consequently, a flood of court cases appeared and I am still battling them till today. 

Everyday I live in constant fear from getting hit with new random court cases. Almost all of them stem from hatred. I deal daily with workers who expect to do nothing and get paid. I always have a large absentee, but when production is stopped, surprisingly everyone shows up! They simply don't want to work and feel that working for a foreigner is a big shame. Again, this type of mentality simply did not exist in the past. It only arrived recently this unbelievable hatred towards foreigners. I was betrayed several times by my workers who stole merchandise, who sold my secrets to the competition, who took my client lists/distribution networks, who deliberately destroyed my machines and the list goes on. I've had several foreign engineers come help me out here and all of them are always amazed how the men never work around here. 

The flip side of the equation that I discovered is that females are far superior than males in this country. A female only thinks when she'll get married, so she works diligently to make some cash, whereas the males think of how to steal, how not to work, how to hunt for females, etc. Going back to the foreign engineers, they would always ask me why do the men tell the girls to do the work when the engineer specifically asked the men to do it. I always answer and say that the males simply don't want to work!

As the years have passed, I have come to sympathize with the females a lot more. Every time I think I have it bad, I think of the girls here who have it far far worse than anyone else. They are treated like objects used to create a son and for pleasuring the male. What is even worse, is that fathers tend to throw their girls to work so the father can sit at the cafes all day and do nothing. I stopped walking in Alex now and I simply drive to minimize the annoyances. Anyhow, while driving, I always see how the guys try to brush up on the girls and its simply disgusting. The girls are too scared to do anything or say anything. They simply just walk faster. 

Females here are petrified of males; let me share a random story of one of my workers. She recently married and for months she could not provide a child for her husband. The worker came to me to ask for help. I was very confused about what exactly she needed from me to do. Eventually, she ended up going with her cousin to help get her pregnant. She was too scared that her husband would divorce her if she could not offer him a child. I got very curious about the whole aforementioned situation and it turned out to be a lot more common than I had expected. 


In short, I think it really depends on your circumstances and location. I recall when Alexandria had a lot more foreigners (Greeks, Armenians, French, English, Italians, etc.). Now the mix of foreigners has shifted to Chinese, Turks, and Indians. The Europeans are almost gone from Alex. I tend to believe that life is far better in the red sea area as it probably resembles Alexandria past! The city I fell in love with and continue to feel sorry that it is now ruined by this wave of fanaticism. 

To put things in perspective, Egypt had a population of 21 million people in 1960. Today, there are around 82 million people in Egypt. UK had 52 million in 1960 and today there are around 62 million folks.


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## MaidenScotland

MensEtManus said:


> I came to Egypt for work and quite honestly for the opportunity to build a business. Looking back, I guess the amount of cash is simply not worth the humiliation, fear, and loneliness that came out of this whole mess. Now, I have a lot of sunk cost, and it is extremely difficult to liquidate my assets and leave. However, in the long run, I am planning to liquidate and leave. I would rather have a simple 9-5 job over in the USA than the life I have created for myself here.
> 
> Once upon a time Alexandria was beautiful I was mesmerized with its beauty, its people, its weather and the opportunity to create a successful business.
> 
> The weather is still the same; however, I feel all the Alexandrian citizens are now replaced with fanatics and fundamentalists who simply hate foreigners. Once upon a time, my business was flourishing, and slowly the demand for my product started to diminish. The reason was because the competition started claiming I was a Jew and things never became the same. The competition even went to the several dozen government agencies claiming I was a Jew and this company is creating products to destroy the Egyptian fiber. Consequently, a flood of court cases appeared and I am still battling them till today.
> 
> Everyday I live in constant fear from getting hit with new random court cases. Almost all of them stem from hatred. I deal daily with workers who expect to do nothing and get paid. I always have a large absentee, but when production is stopped, surprisingly everyone shows up! They simply don't want to work and feel that working for a foreigner is a big shame. Again, this type of mentality simply did not exist in the past. It only arrived recently this unbelievable hatred towards foreigners. I was betrayed several times by my workers who stole merchandise, who sold my secrets to the competition, who took my client lists/distribution networks, who deliberately destroyed my machines and the list goes on. I've had several foreign engineers come help me out here and all of them are always amazed how the men never work around here.
> 
> The flip side of the equation that I discovered is that females are far superior than males in this country. A female only thinks when she'll get married, so she works diligently to make some cash, whereas the males think of how to steal, how not to work, how to hunt for females, etc. Going back to the foreign engineers, they would always ask me why do the men tell the girls to do the work when the engineer specifically asked the men to do it. I always answer and say that the males simply don't want to work!
> 
> As the years have passed, I have come to sympathize with the females a lot more. Every time I think I have it bad, I think of the girls here who have it far far worse than anyone else. They are treated like objects used to create a son and for pleasuring the male. What is even worse, is that fathers tend to throw their girls to work so the father can sit at the cafes all day and do nothing. I stopped walking in Alex now and I simply drive to minimize the annoyances. Anyhow, while driving, I always see how the guys try to brush up on the girls and its simply disgusting. The girls are too scared to do anything or say anything. They simply just walk faster.
> 
> Females here are petrified of males; let me share a random story of one of my workers. She recently married and for months she could not provide a child for her husband. The worker came to me to ask for help. I was very confused about what exactly she needed from me to do. Eventually, she ended up going with her cousin to help get her pregnant. She was too scared that her husband would divorce her if she could not offer him a child. I got very curious about the whole aforementioned situation and it turned out to be a lot more common than I had expected.
> 
> 
> In short, I think it really depends on your circumstances and location. I recall when Alexandria had a lot more foreigners (Greeks, Armenians, French, English, Italians, etc.). Now the mix of foreigners has shifted to Chinese, Turks, and Indians. The Europeans are almost gone from Alex. I tend to believe that life is far better in the red sea area as it probably resembles Alexandria past! The city I fell in love with and continue to feel sorry that it is now ruined by this wave of fanaticism.
> 
> To put things in perspective, Egypt had a population of 21 million people in 1960. Today, there are around 82 million people in Egypt. UK had 52 million in 1960 and today there are around 62 million folks.



Hi Men,

Sorry to hear of your problems and sad that after all your hard work you feel unable to continue. I understand your reasons, maybe people reading this will realise that life here is not Utopia for the foreigner if you are working and trying to make a living. I am lucky that my job insulates me from a lot of the day to day hassles but for you the hassles have become too frequent.
I wish you all the best in whatever you choose to do

Maiden xx


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## Sam

MensEtManus said:


> I came to Egypt for work and quite honestly for the opportunity to build a business. Looking back, I guess the amount of cash is simply not worth the humiliation, fear, and loneliness that came out of this whole mess. Now, I have a lot of sunk cost, and it is extremely difficult to liquidate my assets and leave. However, in the long run, I am planning to liquidate and leave. I would rather have a simple 9-5 job over in the USA than the life I have created for myself here.
> 
> Once upon a time Alexandria was beautiful I was mesmerized with its beauty, its people, its weather and the opportunity to create a successful business.
> 
> The weather is still the same; however, I feel all the Alexandrian citizens are now replaced with fanatics and fundamentalists who simply hate foreigners. Once upon a time, my business was flourishing, and slowly the demand for my product started to diminish. The reason was because the competition started claiming I was a Jew and things never became the same. The competition even went to the several dozen government agencies claiming I was a Jew and this company is creating products to destroy the Egyptian fiber. Consequently, a flood of court cases appeared and I am still battling them till today.
> 
> Everyday I live in constant fear from getting hit with new random court cases. Almost all of them stem from hatred. I deal daily with workers who expect to do nothing and get paid. I always have a large absentee, but when production is stopped, surprisingly everyone shows up! They simply don't want to work and feel that working for a foreigner is a big shame. Again, this type of mentality simply did not exist in the past. It only arrived recently this unbelievable hatred towards foreigners. I was betrayed several times by my workers who stole merchandise, who sold my secrets to the competition, who took my client lists/distribution networks, who deliberately destroyed my machines and the list goes on. I've had several foreign engineers come help me out here and all of them are always amazed how the men never work around here.
> 
> The flip side of the equation that I discovered is that females are far superior than males in this country. A female only thinks when she'll get married, so she works diligently to make some cash, whereas the males think of how to steal, how not to work, how to hunt for females, etc. Going back to the foreign engineers, they would always ask me why do the men tell the girls to do the work when the engineer specifically asked the men to do it. I always answer and say that the males simply don't want to work!
> 
> As the years have passed, I have come to sympathize with the females a lot more. Every time I think I have it bad, I think of the girls here who have it far far worse than anyone else. They are treated like objects used to create a son and for pleasuring the male. What is even worse, is that fathers tend to throw their girls to work so the father can sit at the cafes all day and do nothing. I stopped walking in Alex now and I simply drive to minimize the annoyances. Anyhow, while driving, I always see how the guys try to brush up on the girls and its simply disgusting. The girls are too scared to do anything or say anything. They simply just walk faster.
> 
> Females here are petrified of males; let me share a random story of one of my workers. She recently married and for months she could not provide a child for her husband. The worker came to me to ask for help. I was very confused about what exactly she needed from me to do. Eventually, she ended up going with her cousin to help get her pregnant. She was too scared that her husband would divorce her if she could not offer him a child. I got very curious about the whole aforementioned situation and it turned out to be a lot more common than I had expected.
> 
> 
> In short, I think it really depends on your circumstances and location. I recall when Alexandria had a lot more foreigners (Greeks, Armenians, French, English, Italians, etc.). Now the mix of foreigners has shifted to Chinese, Turks, and Indians. The Europeans are almost gone from Alex. I tend to believe that life is far better in the red sea area as it probably resembles Alexandria past! The city I fell in love with and continue to feel sorry that it is now ruined by this wave of fanaticism.
> 
> To put things in perspective, Egypt had a population of 21 million people in 1960. Today, there are around 82 million people in Egypt. UK had 52 million in 1960 and today there are around 62 million folks.



Such a sad story.

I just can't believe your competition accused you of being a Jew, and then society condemned you for it. So what if you were a Jew? Why should your beliefs have any influence on your business or quality of your products. And the worst part is the court cases and way it was all taken so seriously, and it all boils down to religion.

I cannot comment on personal experience having only been to Alex once, but my partner has told me so many stories of growing up there, and when he goes back now he just can't believe how society has changed so drastically in such a short time. And I must admit, the stories he tells has no reflection on the reality we see. 

I really hope you can sort out this horrible legal situation you have found yourself in and get back to a happy life. I'm sure you already have some great lawyers on your case, but if you ever feel the need for another opinion then I know the best 

We'll be heading up to Alex again hopefully within the next 2-3 weeks, if you fancy hooking up for a coffee let me know.

Sam x


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## DeadGuy

MensEtManus said:


> I came to Egypt for work and quite honestly for the opportunity to build a business. Looking back, I guess the amount of cash is simply not worth the humiliation, fear, and loneliness that came out of this whole mess. Now, I have a lot of sunk cost, and it is extremely difficult to liquidate my assets and leave. However, in the long run, I am planning to liquidate and leave. I would rather have a simple 9-5 job over in the USA than the life I have created for myself here.
> 
> Once upon a time Alexandria was beautiful I was mesmerized with its beauty, its people, its weather and the opportunity to create a successful business.
> 
> The weather is still the same; however, I feel all the Alexandrian citizens are now replaced with fanatics and fundamentalists who simply hate foreigners. Once upon a time, my business was flourishing, and slowly the demand for my product started to diminish. The reason was because the competition started claiming I was a Jew and things never became the same. The competition even went to the several dozen government agencies claiming I was a Jew and this company is creating products to destroy the Egyptian fiber. Consequently, a flood of court cases appeared and I am still battling them till today.
> 
> Everyday I live in constant fear from getting hit with new random court cases. Almost all of them stem from hatred. I deal daily with workers who expect to do nothing and get paid. I always have a large absentee, but when production is stopped, surprisingly everyone shows up! They simply don't want to work and feel that working for a foreigner is a big shame. Again, this type of mentality simply did not exist in the past. It only arrived recently this unbelievable hatred towards foreigners. I was betrayed several times by my workers who stole merchandise, who sold my secrets to the competition, who took my client lists/distribution networks, who deliberately destroyed my machines and the list goes on. I've had several foreign engineers come help me out here and all of them are always amazed how the men never work around here.
> 
> The flip side of the equation that I discovered is that females are far superior than males in this country. A female only thinks when she'll get married, so she works diligently to make some cash, whereas the males think of how to steal, how not to work, how to hunt for females, etc. Going back to the foreign engineers, they would always ask me why do the men tell the girls to do the work when the engineer specifically asked the men to do it. I always answer and say that the males simply don't want to work!
> 
> As the years have passed, I have come to sympathize with the females a lot more. Every time I think I have it bad, I think of the girls here who have it far far worse than anyone else. They are treated like objects used to create a son and for pleasuring the male. What is even worse, is that fathers tend to throw their girls to work so the father can sit at the cafes all day and do nothing. I stopped walking in Alex now and I simply drive to minimize the annoyances. Anyhow, while driving, I always see how the guys try to brush up on the girls and its simply disgusting. The girls are too scared to do anything or say anything. They simply just walk faster.
> 
> Females here are petrified of males; let me share a random story of one of my workers. She recently married and for months she could not provide a child for her husband. The worker came to me to ask for help. I was very confused about what exactly she needed from me to do. Eventually, she ended up going with her cousin to help get her pregnant. She was too scared that her husband would divorce her if she could not offer him a child. I got very curious about the whole aforementioned situation and it turned out to be a lot more common than I had expected.
> 
> 
> In short, I think it really depends on your circumstances and location. I recall when Alexandria had a lot more foreigners (Greeks, Armenians, French, English, Italians, etc.). Now the mix of foreigners has shifted to Chinese, Turks, and Indians. The Europeans are almost gone from Alex. I tend to believe that life is far better in the red sea area as it probably resembles Alexandria past! The city I fell in love with and continue to feel sorry that it is now ruined by this wave of fanaticism.
> 
> To put things in perspective, Egypt had a population of 21 million people in 1960. Today, there are around 82 million people in Egypt. UK had 52 million in 1960 and today there are around 62 million folks.


Well, sorry about what's happening to you,

Couple advices? the lawyers? make sure you choose the right ones, cause they can be much more low than the workers who are fooling around and ruining your machines and selling your secrets, and in the lawyers case? they either sell it to who pays more, or just use it to blackmail you, so you need to make sure you got a real decent one that you do trust, and you need to learn as much as you can about what can or can not get you in troubles with the Egyptian law so you don't get blackmailed for nothing, so start canceling any powers given to any lawyer that you do not fully trust, you do NOT need to give them these powers unless you're planning to stay away from courts, they can still be your lawyers but you'd need to go to the court room while your case is being handled, but it's much better than giving them all the power they need to sell all your stuff if you ask me!!

As for the reason they hate working for a foreigner these days???? it's not about your nationality, but it's far more complicated and many other factors involve in it, your gender, your beliefs, etc.

As for people's changing radically from how they were back in the "old" days? I've mentioned in another thread that there are other parties who do support a certain kind of people and that they could be a threat for lives, so you do need to start worrying about your own life as well.

Hope you get yourself together soon, and please, do worry about your own safety and your family's if they're here, and you do need to start worrying about that since the "Jew" thing was already mentioned, EVEN IF YOU'RE NOT A JEW, they won't wait to make sure if it was true or not!!

Good luck, that's all I can say


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## DeadGuy

By the way, about helping some of the "girls" working for you with their troubles??? Don't! They're probably not worth it, and you can get yourself in a trouble by just helping them doing what they want, and you don't need more troubles I can see!

Good luck


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## expatinalex

biscuit said:


> Just wondering if anyone 'out there' (in Egypt) can give me the benefit of hindsight before I get carried away with relocating?
> 
> Is there anything you would have done differently or wish you had known before making the move?
> 
> What I am looking for is if you could go back and tell yourself anything before you made the move what would it be!
> 
> Those who have lived in Egypt all their lives must have some gems? I could offer so much about the NE of England.
> 
> Bit late at 40 to become a 'free spirit' but it looks like thats happening whether I like it or not.


Hi biscuit.

We bought a villa in Alexandria 2 years ago and I have to be honest and say I don't think the crime rate is as high here as it is in Cairo.

Certainly we have never been the victim of any crime. In fact the opposite the hospitality we have been shown is second to none.

Cairo.....as you have read from others is a different kettle of fish..........the poverty in Cairo makes it a breeding ground for anything bad I hate the place.
It's filthy, manky disgusting etc etc........

I suppose the worst thing we have faced is as one reply to you read..........people here do treat you as idiots because they know you are not familiar with prices etc and will rip you off as soon as look at you.

They think that all westerners are made of money........in comparisson I suppose we are!

Would I have done anything different........yes.

I would have spent more time here before investing in a villa.......maybe I would have bought in Hurghada or Sharm where there is a higher European population.

And most definately I would have made some attempt at learning the language.

If you decide to relocate I wish you all the best and if you decide tocome to Alex keep in touch.


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## biscuit

Head above the parapet, preparing to be shot down in flames!!

Having read most of the posts on here I nowhave a little bit of understanding about the main players 

It's all very interesting though lol


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## biscuit

Don't have any control over the spacebar though it appears!!


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## Beatle

biscuit said:


> Head above the parapet, preparing to be shot down in flames!!
> 
> Having read most of the posts on here I nowhave a little bit of understanding about the main players
> 
> It's all very interesting though lol


The question is has any of it helped with your decision as to whether or not to relocate?!


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## biscuit

oh yes! i'm planning my next visit now. will see after that. Ha.


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## mamasue

Biscuit.....
I lived and worked in Egypt for several years.
I went alone.... and as an over-50 woman planned to stay alone!
The main thing I would warn you about are the young gigolos..... they see a foreign woman, and they're around her like flies round sh*t....especially an older woman.
They're usually looking for money, visas, whatever they can get!
they're great liars...... very convincing, I've seen many women taken in by their dubious charms.
For example...... I'd be sitting outside a coffee shop minding my own business.... and a 25-or-so- year old would come and sit near me.... and the quistions would start "Where you from, are you married", etc.etc.
The last thing in my life I was looking for was a boyfriend young enough for me to have given birth to..... so I was usually pretty abrupt.... these guys are persistent!
Also..... it's handy to learn a bit of Egyptian Arabic before you go....... you're less likely to be ripped off if they think you're a resident rather than a tourist.
Learn the written numbers at least, so you can read price stickers. Someone asking the price of a stickered item is a dead giveaway!
I lived in Hurghada and worked as a scuba instructor.
Life in Egypt can be good or bad.... depending how you deal with it.


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## biscuit

its a sad thing realy that anyones life is so desperate that they have to resort to selling themselves. I am completley in love with my husband who is my soul mate  to the envy of my friends. Ha ha. I come from a background of dealing with dishonest people so hopefully not too naive. I wont be employing staff so hopefully my beef will stay in the fridge. Actualy i lived in a hostel when i first started my career any everything was stolen (but never money not even a penny) sorry about the grammar but im using the phones web. In saying thats its still the same now hubby cant leave his motorbike gear out as it will get pilfered, this is in a place where you would expect it to be as safe as houses! Ha.


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## biscuit

iam learning arabic thats really good advice abov the numbers thanks


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