# Perplexed re health & illegal use of



## shoemanpete (Jan 4, 2010)

The papers are full of the changes to access to health care here in Spain so that new expats cannot abuse the system. I am dying to know how others have been using the health system 'illegally'? You either have to be contributing into the system via working or have the appropriate UK S1 form. The EHIC is for emergency use as we know. Our S1 entitlement has expired and I am not in receipt of a pension yet. The Dr here has categorically said 'that's it'. 
So how have people been 'abusing the system'?


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

shoemanpete said:


> The papers are full of the changes to access to health care here in Spain so that new expats cannot abuse the system. I am dying to know how others have been using the health system 'illegally'? You either have to be contributing into the system via working or have the appropriate UK S1 form. The EHIC is for emergency use as we know. Our S1 entitlement has expired and I am not in receipt of a pension yet. The Dr here has categorically said 'that's it'.
> So how have people been 'abusing the system'?


simply - Spain has tightened up the systems

people HAVE been using the EHIC for years even though they live here - & doubly abusing systems by returning to the UK for operations because they are 'entitled' to - but of course they aren't really 

they just slipped through the net - they were allowed to register as temporary patients with the EHIC & just kept using their temp cards forever - sometimes even getting new ones!!

it has been a gradual tightening up - but it does seem to be getting there


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## shoemanpete (Jan 4, 2010)

Thanks for the explanation, I guessed that what it was. 
I know a couple of people who regularly go to the UK to see their Dr and get meds, and he even knows they live here. So he too (the Dr) is allowing the system to be abused!




xabiachica said:


> simply - Spain has tightened up the systems
> 
> people HAVE been using the EHIC for years even though they live here - & doubly abusing systems by returning to the UK for operations because they are 'entitled' to - but of course they aren't really
> 
> ...


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

shoemanpete said:


> Thanks for the explanation, I guessed that what it was.
> I know a couple of people who regularly go to the UK to see their Dr and get meds, and he even knows they live here. So he too (the Dr) is allowing the system to be abused!


in my region there are also some people who got health cards during the time that Valencia was giving 'free health care to all residents' to encourage foreigners to buy in the area

when the rules changed a few years ago they just held onto the cards which were supposed to have been cancelled .............. I know at least one English person still using theirs, even though they are neither paying NI nor entitled to an S1


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

xabiachica said:


> in my region there are also some people who got health cards during the time that Valencia was giving 'free health care to all residents' to encourage foreigners to buy in the area
> 
> when the rules changed a few years ago they just held onto the cards which were supposed to have been cancelled .............. I know at least one English person still using theirs, even though they are neither paying NI nor entitled to an S1


Equally, a number of health centres issued SIP cards based upon an out-of-date EHIC card.

When we first came our local centre insisted in us having to show our EHIC card even though we had an S1 in place. I tried (initially) to argue that we did not have valid EHIC cards as we were now resident here, but they insisted in seeing the old ones or we would not be covered (this despite the S1). I think the third time of arguing, I gave up and just showed my sons EHIC card.

They were in complete and utter disarray - I (personally) think they still are!


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

snikpoh said:


> Equally, a number of health centres issued SIP cards based upon an out-of-date EHIC card.
> 
> When we first came our local centre insisted in us having to show our EHIC card even though we had an S1 in place. I tried (initially) to argue that we did not have valid EHIC cards as we were now resident here, but they insisted in seeing the old ones or we would not be covered (this despite the S1). I think the third time of arguing, I gave up and just showed my sons EHIC card.
> 
> They were in complete and utter disarray - I (personally) think they still are!


yes, a lot of the medical centres still are in a mess

I fully expect to be questioned if any of us go to the doctor soon - I have 'baja'd' from paying autónomo atm, because I'm not working this month - if the computer shows that I might be refused treatment - usually healthcare continues for 3 months & I will have 'alta'd' again long before then - but who knows?

luckiily I know the receptionist well


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## 90199 (Mar 21, 2010)

I have a E.H.I.C., the authorities in the U.K. have been informed that I do not live there any more, and have not done so for years. When the card expires they send me a replacement to my address here in the Canary Isles.

Apparently this is all quite legal and it is the way the system works.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Hepa said:


> I have a E.H.I.C., the authorities in the U.K. have been informed that I do not live there any more, and have not done so for years. When the card expires they send me a replacement to my address here in the Canary Isles.
> 
> Apparently this is all quite legal and it is the way the system works.


yes, that's because you get a pension & your healthcare is paid for by the UK, so your EHIC is issued by the UK - _your _EHIC isn't for use in Spain though - it's for anywhere else in the scheme....... including if you visit the UK


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## shoemanpete (Jan 4, 2010)

I think you still get a new card for when you travel out of Spain, we have them too.




Hepa said:


> I have a E.H.I.C., the authorities in the U.K. have been informed that I do not live there any more, and have not done so for years. When the card expires they send me a replacement to my address here in the Canary Isles.
> 
> Apparently this is all quite legal and it is the way the system works.


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## 90199 (Mar 21, 2010)

xabiachica said:


> yes, that's because you get a pension & your healthcare is paid for by the UK, so your EHIC is issued by the UK - _your _EHIC isn't for use in Spain though - it's for anywhere else in the scheme....... including if you visit the UK


Ahhh, the advantages of being an old git


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## shoemanpete (Jan 4, 2010)

Hepa said:


> Ahhh, the advantages of being an old git


All the years we try to delay ageing, and now suddenly I cannot wait to get to 65


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Apparently in Andalucia they have discovered 70,000 tarjetas sanitarias in active use by people who have been dead for years!

So it isn't just the Brits abusing the system.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Alcalaina said:


> Apparently in Andalucia they have discovered 70,000 tarjetas sanitarias in active use by people who have been dead for years!
> 
> So it isn't just the Brits abusing the system.


of course it isn't 

but for some reason the press - including the Spanish press - seems to pick on the Brits 

this report doesn't say how many in Andalucía - but 150,000 country wide!!

El Gobierno identifica 150.000 tarjetas de muertos que estaban activas | Sociedad | EL PAÍS



typically spanish version The co-payment system for medicines has revealed quite widespread fraud


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## NickZ (Jun 26, 2009)

xabiachica said:


> this report doesn't say how many in Andalucía - but 150,000 country wide!!


Who are the people using the cards of the dead? Don't all Spaniards have access to the health system?


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

NickZ said:


> Who are the people using the cards of the dead? Don't all Spaniards have access to the health system?


not all of them, no

until recent changes (which haven't happened yet), if you stop paying into the system your health cover generally stops after 3 months


also, pensioners got free meds until a few weeks ago - & they still get them cheaper than the rest of us

I guess a lot of these cards were from elderly relatives who had died


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## jimenato (Nov 21, 2009)

xabiachica said:


> yes, that's because you get a pension & your healthcare is paid for by the UK, so your EHIC is issued by the UK - _your _EHIC isn't for use in Spain though - it's for anywhere else in the scheme....... including if you visit the UK


HA! Last time we went for Spanish EHIC's we were told by the lady that we would have to apply to the UK for them. I was puzzled and asked why. 

"Because you are retired" she said. 

***** - I was only 54 at the time. 

When she realised her mistake she was embarrassed, apologetic and very helpful.


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## jimenato (Nov 21, 2009)

xabiachica said:


> not all of them, no
> 
> until recent changes (which haven't happened yet), if you stop paying into the system your health cover generally stops after 3 months
> 
> ...


Do you know when those changes are happening?


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

jimenato said:


> Do you know when those changes are happening?


I think I read 1st September - but I'll believe it when I see it when it comes to expats........

there's a link here somewhere, I think Alcalaina posted it :confused2:


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

jimenato said:


> HA! Last time we went for Spanish EHIC's we were told by the lady that we would have to apply to the UK for them. I was puzzled and asked why.
> 
> "Because you are retired" she said.
> 
> ...


oops !


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

xabiachica said:


> of course it isn't
> 
> but for some reason the press - including the Spanish press - seems to pick on the Brits
> 
> ...


Quote from article


> Sin embargo, no ha especificado en cuántos de estos casos además de existir la tarjeta activa, ésta se utilizó para la compra de medicamentos y la suplantación de personalidad.


The cards haven't been cancelled, but they don't know if they've been used fraudulently or not. If a member of my family had died I don't think I'd run round to the health centre to cancel their card.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Quote from article
> The cards haven't been cancelled, but they don't know if they've been used fraudulently or not. If a member of my family had died I don't think I'd run round to the health centre to cancel their card.


no - I don't think it would be the first thing on my list either

there are plenty of Brits though who have continued to claim/receive a dead relative's pension from the UK - sometimes for years - so that now if a Brit dies in Spain the funeral company takes the passport from you & returns it to the consulate - awful but true

I know a former neighbour of mine continued to claim/receive TWO dead husband's pensions after they died - I know because she was caught after the second one died....

it must be very temping to get cheaper meds by using an old card - & let's face it, until recently they weren't exactly checking very carefully...


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## 90199 (Mar 21, 2010)

I have to pay 10% of prescription charges.

Those who work in the Chemists are going loopy, they have to administrate the changes, and are always running out of small change.


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## 90199 (Mar 21, 2010)

xabiachica said:


> no - I don't think it would be the first thing on my list either
> 
> there are plenty of Brits though who have continued to claim/receive a dead relative's pension from the UK - sometimes for years - so that now if a Brit dies in Spain the funeral company takes the passport from you & returns it to the consulate - awful but true
> 
> ...


I have to fill a form in, stating that I am still alive, and get it witnessed by a reputable person of some standing. This happens about every other year.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Hepa said:


> I have to fill a form in, stating that I am still alive, and get it witnessed by a reputable person of some standing. This happens about every other year.


things are for sure being tightened up


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## 90199 (Mar 21, 2010)

xabiachica said:


> things are for sure being tightened up


Not really, I have had to do this since my early fifties, I have a government pension, it is probably standard policy. If the pension administrators cannot contact you, they stop the pension.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Hepa said:


> Not really, I have had to do this since my early fifties, I have a government pension, it is probably standard policy. If the pension administrators cannot contact you, they stop the pension.


someone must have been 'helping' my ex neighbour then 

she was caught when she moved & didn't get the mail forwarded............


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