# Horses



## MaidenScotland (Jun 6, 2009)

I have as a friend on facebook ESMA 'Egyptian Society for Mercy to Animals' | Facebook but I am in a bit of an argument with them over the wording of their appeal for help in feeding starving horses.
Firstly.. I am a horse lover and have kept horses myself so I am well aware of the needs of horses. 
Secondly I will donate something to the appeal and I am trying to think of a way that I could also raise some more money.

My argument with them is that they are saying because the tourists aren't here horses have starved to death because the owners haven't the money to feed them.
I have objected to this as it blames the lack of tourists and the reality is these horses starved to death in a matter of days... no animal that is fed properly dies of starvation in days.. Tourists are ripped in off big time at the pyramids to ride these animals and yet the owners still don't feed them, buy proper well fitting tack, shoe them properly and the list goes on and on and yet now the owners are crying out for help to feed them, yes I can understand now a month down the line that they may be struggling and this is why I will give now. 

I have never in all my years seen a well cared for working horse/camel/donkey/ass 

Am I wrong in thinking that maybe these animals dying are a good thing albeit I wished they hadn't died the horrible death they endured?, Now that these badly kept animals have been culled perhaps the government will now bring in regulations for these tourist attraction animals. I am not talking about the poor chap who collects rubbish etc and doesn't look after his animals as in a way I can understand.. no one cares about him or his children going hungry so why should he care about a donkey.I am talking about the horses up at the pyramids that rake in a fortune for the owners.

Maiden..


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## bat (Dec 1, 2010)

MaidenScotland said:


> I have as a friend on facebook ESMA 'Egyptian Society for Mercy to Animals' | Facebook but I am in a bit of an argument with them over the wording of their appeal for help in feeding starving horses.
> Firstly.. I am a horse lover and have kept horses myself so I am well aware of the needs of horses.
> Secondly I will donate something to the appeal and I am trying to think of a way that I could also raise some more money.
> 
> ...


What is all this about the people in tourism being poor, they rake in a fortune, buy all sorts with the money, you can't tell me they can't flog some of there gold etc to keep the means of there livelihood in working order ie the horses camels etc,
So if there letting them die in a month what about other business owners have they all shut up shop , no there doing all they can to keep afloat.
As much as I feel so sorry they are starving, I think if they are letting them die it's on purpose as they then don't have to spend money, and they know that there are bleeding hearts who will help them out . Surely the horse charities should tell them in the good times give us the money to help in the bad.


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## hurghadapat (Mar 26, 2010)

MaidenScotland said:


> I have as a friend on facebook ESMA 'Egyptian Society for Mercy to Animals' | Facebook but I am in a bit of an argument with them over the wording of their appeal for help in feeding starving horses.
> Firstly.. I am a horse lover and have kept horses myself so I am well aware of the needs of horses.
> Secondly I will donate something to the appeal and I am trying to think of a way that I could also raise some more money.
> 
> ...


have to agree with you about them dying.....and hopefully gone to a better place.
In Luxor the Brooke Soc.built shelters for the horses that pull the caleches so when they weren't working the horses could rest out of the sun,but what did the owners do......back the caleches into the shelter so they could have a sleep on the seat and be in the shade and the poor horses where left to stand in the sun:
Egypt has an awful lot to learn when it comes to looking after animals as their whole attitude towards them is totally different to ours.
Have put a couple if ideas on your Facebook for raising money....but one i forgot was having a book sale.


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## MaidenScotland (Jun 6, 2009)

hurghadapat said:


> have to agree with you about them dying.....and hopefully gone to a better place.
> In Luxor the Brooke Soc.built shelters for the horses that pull the caleches so when they weren't working the horses could rest out of the sun,but what did the owners do......back the caleches into the shelter so they could have a sleep on the seat and be in the shade and the poor horses where left to stand in the sun:
> Egypt has an awful lot to learn when it comes to looking after animals as their whole attitude towards them is totally different to ours.
> Have put a couple if ideas on your Facebook for raising money....but one i forgot was having a book sale.




I saw that Pat thanks.. trouble is I got rid of everything in November when I thought I was off... 
I am thinking of doing a Benidorm night.. inviting friends round for a glass of vino and to watch the series on dvd... I have sort of arranged to do this anyway at a friends house but I might charge now lol


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## Sam (Aug 27, 2009)

The first time I went to Cairo my ex husband and I did the tourist thing and took horses around the Pyramids. The guide got off his horse to take photos of us and when he went to get back on the horse turned on him trying to kick and bite him and wouldn't let him get back on. The horse was very sweet and kind natured, he came to me very willingly and it was me who had to calm the horse to allow the guide to continue, but it made it so obvious that these poor creatures were obviously suffering at the hands of their owner.

The problem in Egypt is that people believe themselves to be far superior to animals and do not treat them with the respect they deserve, without touching on the care and attention they deserve.

There are many groups and pages on facebook trying to protect the animals of Egypt, not just the working animals, but the problems lie in the education of the masses (or lack thereof) and a proper and organised authority to regulate the standards of all animals. Street animals should be humanely culled and/or neutered and working animals should be regularly checked.

Animal abuse goes beyond starvation. I agree that every little helps, but I wonder whether there would ever be a system in place to really get the animal's situation in this country under control.

Sam


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## MaidenScotland (Jun 6, 2009)

Sam said:


> The first time I went to Cairo my ex husband and I did the tourist thing and took horses around the Pyramids. The guide got off his horse to take photos of us and when he went to get back on the horse turned on him trying to kick and bite him and wouldn't let him get back on. The horse was very sweet and kind natured, he came to me very willingly and it was me who had to calm the horse to allow the guide to continue, but it made it so obvious that these poor creatures were obviously suffering at the hands of their owner.
> 
> The problem in Egypt is that people believe themselves to be far superior to animals and do not treat them with the respect they deserve, without touching on the care and attention they deserve.
> 
> ...




All animals used for tourist attractions should be licensed and be subject to a vet inspection every 2 months..it has to be every two months to ensure that the horse has good properly fitted shoes. The animals must be wormed, treated etc by the vet there and then not left for the owner to find another vet. Horses to be branded.tattooed and given a passport. 

Yes people will say that it will be open to bribes but we have to start somewhere.. also it could be run with the help of an animal charity. 

Tour group that take people to the horses also need to be responsible and if they allow their guests to use horses that are not fit for purpose then they too should be fined.


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## hurghadapat (Mar 26, 2010)

MaidenScotland said:


> All animals used for tourist attractions should be licensed and be subject to a vet inspection every 2 months..it has to be every two months to ensure that the horse has good properly fitted shoes. The animals must be wormed, treated etc by the vet there and then not left for the owner to find another vet. Horses to be branded.tattooed and given a passport.
> 
> Yes people will say that it will be open to bribes but we have to start somewhere.. also it could be run with the help of an animal charity.
> 
> Tour group that take people to the horses also need to be responsible and if they allow their guests to use horses that are not fit for purpose then they too should be fined.


:clap2::clap2::clap2: Totally agree with you Maiden but the charities that are already there seem to have an uphill struggle because of the attitude of the Egyptians towards their animals.....and as to the government doing anything to implement any of the things you mentioned....what chance of that when they can't even look after their own people.


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## lostsheep (Jan 24, 2011)

Maiden please excuse my ignorance regarding the ESMA as I know nothing about them.

Do they have their own adopted horses that this money will go to feed or are they just collecting and then donating it to the tour operators? If the latter is the case then isn't it more than likely the tour operators will just put the money in their own pockets and no money or the bare minimum will be used on the horses?

While I do believe this is a worthy cause it would really suck if this is just a scheme by the tour operators to fleece more money for themselves.


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## MaidenScotland (Jun 6, 2009)

lostsheep said:


> Maiden please excuse my ignorance regarding the ESMA as I know nothing about them.
> 
> Do they have their own adopted horses that this money will go to feed or are they just collecting and then donating it to the tour operators? If the latter is the case then isn't it more than likely the tour operators will just put the money in their own pockets and no money or the bare minimum will be used on the horses?
> 
> While I do believe this is a worthy cause it would really suck if this is just a scheme by the tour operators to fleece more money for themselves.




The money that Esma is looking for is to help feed horses at the pyramids that owners are not feeding the tour operators have nothing to do with feeding the horses but they do collect a fee for bringing tourists to ride these poor ill treated under fed animals,


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## marenostrum (Feb 19, 2011)

MaidenScotland said:


> I have as a friend on facebook ESMA 'Egyptian Society for Mercy to Animals' | Facebook but I am in a bit of an argument with them over the wording of their appeal for help in feeding starving horses.
> Firstly.. I am a horse lover and have kept horses myself so I am well aware of the needs of horses.
> Secondly I will donate something to the appeal and I am trying to think of a way that I could also raise some more money.
> 
> ...


these people that work around the pyramids with the poor animals are scum imho.

Some of them are well known "faces" that were even used bu Mou's brigade during the uprising ie the ones charging the crowds in Thair on horse and donkey. They don't give a damn about the animal's welfare. I mean in the west police horses are covered with protection on for their eyes, feet etc etc, in Thiair the owners just used the poor animals for their own selfish gain ie a twenty note stuck in the backpocket by mou's thugs...

I have friends coming over at Easter and they have asked me about taking them to the pyramids and have a few pics taken with camel etc. Not looking forward ot it and especially not looking forward to paying these scum my money whilst theyb treat their animals like ......


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## bat (Dec 1, 2010)

marenostrum said:


> these people that work around the pyramids with the poor animals are scum imho.
> 
> Some of them are well known "faces" that were even used bu Mou's brigade during the uprising ie the ones charging the crowds in Thair on horse and donkey. They don't give a damn about the animal's welfare. I mean in the west police horses are covered with protection on for their eyes, feet etc etc, in Thiair the owners just used the poor animals for their own selfish gain ie a twenty note stuck in the backpocket by mou's thugs...
> 
> I have friends coming over at Easter and they have asked me about taking them to the pyramids and have a few pics taken with camel etc. Not looking forward ot it and especially not looking forward to paying these scum my money whilst theyb treat their animals like ......


They should use the money to euthanize , them your feeding these horses to keep them alive to be Ill treated and malnourished again when the tourists come back that for the animal is cruel and unusual punishment, it's like reviving the prisoner so you can torture him again
.these horses are bought cheaply to work earn an income when that income dries up it's cheaper to get rid of them wait it out and buy another one ,
Like the hotels when times are tough they send all there staff home, they get new when the tourists return, I don't see any body collecting money for them.
Let theses hoers have a dignified death, as there lives are cruel and savage, yes collect money and let the people bring them to be euthanized.
Instead of the slow deaths they are having now.


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## MaidenScotland (Jun 6, 2009)

bat said:


> They should use the money to euthanize , them your feeding these horses to keep them alive to be Ill treated and malnourished again when the tourists come back that for the animal is cruel and unusual punishment, it's like reviving the prisoner so you can torture him again
> .these horses are bought cheaply to work earn an income when that income dries up it's cheaper to get rid of them wait it out and buy another one ,
> Like the hotels when times are tough they send all there staff home, they get new when the tourists return, I don't see any body collecting money for them.
> Let theses hoers have a dignified death, as there lives are cruel and savage, yes collect money and let the people bring them to be euthanized.
> Instead of the slow deaths they are having now.




Yes I would agree with euthanasia for the sick animals but what a can of worms that would open.
The owner of the horse would want compensated, and no guarantee he would look after his new horse any better.. in fact there would be no need as once it was on it's last legs he would get money to buy a new one.

Can you imagine ... Two men bring their horses to be put to sleep and collect compensation.. one of the horses could be saved if it was just fed properly and the man is told no whereas the other one has his horse put to sleep and given compensation.

First man... You didn't pay me because I am Muslim... and now we have another set of problems/riots on our hands.



The tourist industry and tourist has make a policy of not using animals that are undernourished and in bad shape... it's the only way to do it, make these men see we will not be party to working these poor creatures to death.


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