# Regularise my tax position



## timirina (Sep 21, 2013)

In 2006 we paid 200,000 for a villa we have just discovered that we should fill in a tax form every year and pay some sort of tax on the benefit. Can anyone give us some idea as to how we can regularise out position and how much it is likely to cost.


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## Campesina (Dec 17, 2011)

Assuming you are non-resident you have to pay non-resident income tax on the property.

Enter the search term 'non-resident imputed income tax form 210' into Google and follow the first unsponsored link. It was of great help to me when I was seeking information on this subject and I can now submit my own tax returns.


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

Your flags would suggest that you are actually resident in Spain. As such you should be filling in a resident tax return every June for the preceding year.

If you are, in fact, non-resident (spend less than 183 days per calendar year in Spain) then your tax return must be done by December 31st each year.


PS. I'm not sure what you mean by "tax on the benefit" - what benefit?


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## extranjero (Nov 16, 2012)

timirina said:


> In 2006 we paid 200,000 for a villa we have just discovered that we should fill in a tax form every year and pay some sort of tax on the benefit. Can anyone give us some idea as to how we can regularise out position and how much it is likely to cost.


SO- how were you not aware, presuming you live in Spain more than 183 days each year, that you should have been making income tax declarations in Spain for the last 6 years, on all your pensions,worldwide income including savings tax, investments etc plus lump sums, ISAs, inheritances?Don't know if you've been reading all these posts on paying capital gains tax in Spain, on the sale of your UK house if you sold up and moved to Spain in the same year before July 2nd?
The expat press is full of advice, articles on these matters.
There is a firm that regularly advertises in Expat press, that will make you tax legal in Spain; what you would have to do about the missing years, except pray, I don't know!Perhaps Cap'n Billy will.


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## zenkarma (Feb 15, 2013)

snikpoh said:


> PS. I'm not sure what you mean by "tax on the benefit" - what benefit?


I think the OP is referring to the imputed rental earnings tax on the property that all non-residents have to pay. That's assuming of course that the OP is a non-resident. I can't think of any other tax you would have to pay as a resident that would be a 'benefit' of owning the property. All that of course is assumption and supposition—I don't actually know.

This imputed rental earnings tax is one that many non-residents don't pay because they don't know they have to and the Hacienda don't chase them for it. The problem is of course is that ignorance is no defence and that come resale time they get slapped with all that back tax plus interest.

This tax has always irked me. The Hacienda takes the view that, if you were renting that property out you'd be paying so much in tax on the rental income. But because you don't rent it out, we're going to charge you a non-resident tax on what we estimate the rental income might have been!

Just another unfair tax the Spanish Hacienda slaps on non-resident second home owners.


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## gus-lopez (Jan 4, 2010)

extranjero said:


> SO- how were you not aware, presuming you live in Spain more than 183 days each year, that you should have been making income tax declarations in Spain for the last 6 years, on all your pensions,worldwide income including savings tax, investments etc plus lump sums, ISAs, inheritances?Don't know if you've been reading all these posts on paying capital gains tax in Spain, on the sale of your UK house if you sold up and moved to Spain in the same year before July 2nd?
> The expat press is full of advice, articles on these matters.
> There is a firm that regularly advertises in Expat press, that will make you tax legal in Spain; what you would have to do about the missing years, except pray, I don't know!Perhaps Cap'n Billy will.


It is quite easy to be " not aware" . If ,like me you don't read papers & I've only been using the internet for 4 years, it is easy to assume that as I have no requirement to pay in the UK , why would there be a requirement to pay elsewhere ? I gave up attempting to declare as there was nothing to declare & they wouldn't allow me to declare a 'nil' return as it "wasn't worth the paperwork" .
Many people don't use the internet either.
I know 2 couples who have been here nearly 10 years & have no idea of anything that is required by the spanish authorities !


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## gus-lopez (Jan 4, 2010)

zenkarma said:


> This tax has always irked me. The Hacienda takes the view that, if you were renting that property out you'd be paying so much in tax on the rental income. But because you don't rent it out, we're going to charge you a non-resident tax on what we estimate the rental income might have been!
> 
> Just another unfair tax the Spanish Hacienda slaps on non-resident second home owners.


I thought that spaniards with second & third homes paid it as well ? Otherwise it would be illegal under EU rules.


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## extranjero (Nov 16, 2012)

gus-lopez said:


> It is quite easy to be " not aware" . If ,like me you don't read papers & I've only been using the internet for 4 years, it is easy to assume that as I have no requirement to pay in the UK , why would there be a requirement to pay elsewhere ? I gave up attempting to declare as there was nothing to declare & they wouldn't allow me to declare a 'nil' return as it "wasn't worth the paperwork" .
> Many people don't use the internet either.
> I know 2 couples who have been here nearly 10 years & have no idea of anything that is required by the spanish authorities !


Ignorance is no excuse;even if people don't have internet or read papers they should realise their responsibilities and research such important topics in the country they have retired to;Did theses couples simply assume they could carry on as if they lived in the UK;I think it's a case of not wanting to know rather than not knowing what Spanish authorities required.Shame on them! Perhaps when they sell a property or one of them dies, they'll get a short sharp shock!Quite simply, they are crooks!
Gus-Change your accountant-you 've been given bad advice!


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

extranjero said:


> Ignorance is no excuse;even if people don't have internet or read papers they should realise their responsibilities and research such important topics in the country they have retired to;Did theses couples simply assume they could carry on as if they lived in the UK;I think it's a case of not wanting to know rather than not knowing what Spanish authorities required.Shame on them! Perhaps when they sell a property or one of them dies, they'll get a short sharp shock!Quite simply, they are crooks!
> Gus-Change your accountant-you 've been given bad advice!


It's easy top be judgemental isn't it 
Not everyones lives are as straightforward as that


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## extranjero (Nov 16, 2012)

Stravinsky said:


> It's easy top be judgemental isn't it
> Not everyones lives are as straightforward as that



Nothing to do with being judgmental. Whatever your circumstances, you should try and follow the rules. why should those who flout the laws and live happily under the radar be excused, and those trying to live legally subsidise them?
In which circumstances would YOU say it is ok to cheat the system?


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

extranjero said:


> Nothing to do with being judgmental. Whatever your circumstances, you should try and follow the rules. why should those who flout the laws and live happily under the radar be excused, and those trying to live legally subsidise them?
> In which circumstances would YOU say it is ok to cheat the system?


Agree with all you've said although the language in your post about 'crooks' was a bit strong imo...never thought I'd say that

But ignorance of the law is never an excuse. Most people research thoroughly before moving to a new country. Because I'd been spending regular protracted periods of time in the Czech Republic/Czechoslovakia before moving there to live I thought I knew all I needed to know.

What a mistakea -to -makea as the Italian Captain used to say in "'Allo 'Allo", my all-time favourite tv comedy series.


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

I wonder if the OP will ever come back and tell us if they are resident or not.


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## gus-lopez (Jan 4, 2010)

extranjero said:


> Ignorance is no excuse;even if people don't have internet or read papers they should realise their responsibilities and research such important topics in the country they have retired to;Did theses couples simply assume they could carry on as if they lived in the UK;I think it's a case of not wanting to know rather than not knowing what Spanish authorities required.Shame on them! Perhaps when they sell a property or one of them dies, they'll get a short sharp shock!Quite simply, they are crooks!
> Gus-Change your accountant-you 've been given bad advice!


I haven't an accountant , it was the Hacienda. It doesn't make a lot of difference to me whether I declare or not as there is nothing to pay as there is no income & it makes no difference to cgt if I decided to sell & not roll-over into another property as the tax would be more or less the same & horrific.

A friend of mine, now retired, has been in to them on numerous occasions over the last few years regarding declaring /paying tax.Has house's here & UK ; pays UK tax . Twice they told him that as he paid in UK no need to declare here. Last time they gave him a " Not you again " & a letter stating what they had told him previously, that he had no need to declare! 
He wonders whether it's worth the headed Hacienda paper it is written on.  
I told him to guard it with his life.
A second person , who I only met recently, told the exact same story & has email correspondence to confirm it as well ! 
All a bit peculiar to me.


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## zenkarma (Feb 15, 2013)

gus-lopez said:


> I thought that spaniards with second & third homes paid it as well ?


I really don't know what taxes Spaniards pay on their second homes. I'll have to do some digging to find out.

All I know is that if you are a Spanish non-resident and own a property in Spain you have to pay a non-resident property tax. It's calculated as 2% of the valor cadastral and taxed at 24.75% of that amount. It's imputed income, or income you would earn if you were renting the property. The Netherlands have a similar non-resident property tax in place.


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## CapnBilly (Jun 7, 2011)

zenkarma said:


> I really don't know what taxes Spaniards pay on their second homes. I'll have to do some digging to find out. All I know is that if you are a Spanish non-resident and own a property in Spain you have to pay a non-resident property tax. It's calculated as 2% of the valor cadastral and taxed at 24.75% of that amount. It's imputed income, or income you would earn if you were renting the property. The Netherlands have a similar non-resident property tax in place.


 Gus is correct, the tax applies to all homes which are not your main residence, and applies to all spanish residents, and non residents with a property in Spain. This means if you are a Spanish resident and still have a property in the UK, then you are liable for this tax . If the cadastral value has been revised since 1st jan 1994 then it's 1.1%, otherwise it's 2%.


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## CapnBilly (Jun 7, 2011)

extranjero said:


> what you would have to do about the missing years, except pray,


You should submit tax returns for the previous four years. You can access the Padre program for each year on the Hacienda website. You just complete and submit the return. You will have to pay a fine as well as interest. I can't remember what the fines are, and I'm away, and it's a bit cumbersome checking on an iPhone. I'm pretty certain the sane applies to form 210 (for non-residents).

Having said that they also have 4 years, so just because they've charged your account doesn't mean your safe. You can check the position if you have a digital Id.y son has just had to repay €600 plus interest for a reduction he made for a capital loss in 2009 plus interest @ 5%.


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## Campesina (Dec 17, 2011)

snikpoh said:


> I wonder if the OP will ever come back and tell us if they are resident or not.


I shouldn't think so would you? Anyway, the OP has already indicated that he/she lives and pays tax in the UK. The flags mean nothing because there is no option in the UserCP to indicate that the member is actually a non-resident. 

It always amazes me how a simple question on fora such as this can end up with responses covering several pages but with no-one actually answering the original question.


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

Campesina said:


> I shouldn't think so would you? Anyway, the OP has already indicated that he/she lives and pays tax in the UK. The flags mean nothing because there is no option in the UserCP to indicate that the member is actually a non-resident.
> 
> It always amazes me how a simple question on fora such as this can end up with responses covering several pages but with no-one actually answering the original question.


If they are living in UK then they are not an 'expat in Spain' - simples!

Whether they are resident or not is crucial and a very simple question for the OP to answer - better that than us assuming anything.

If the OP tells us the cadastral value of the property, then the imputed rental tax can be worked out for them.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Campesina said:


> I shouldn't think so would you? Anyway, the OP has already indicated that he/she lives and pays tax in the UK. The flags mean nothing because there is no option in the UserCP to indicate that the member is actually a non-resident.
> 
> It always amazes me how a simple question on fora such as this can end up with responses covering several pages but with no-one actually answering the original question.


the question has been answered as far as it's possible to be without knowing if the OP is resident or not - answers have been given for both non-resident and resident scenarios

the OP has put Valencia as location, which would indicate that that is where they are, as opposed to putting UK or something like 'Basingstoke'

I do agree that they probably are non-resident though


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## Campesina (Dec 17, 2011)

As I said, the OP has indicated in another post that (s)he still lives and pays tax in the UK so it is pretty obvious that (s)he is non-resident in Spain.

http://www.expatforum.com/expats/expat-tax/213322-regularise-my-tax-position.html


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Campesina said:


> As I said, the OP has indicated in another post that (s)he still lives and pays tax in the UK so it is pretty obvious that (s)he is non-resident in Spain.
> 
> http://www.expatforum.com/expats/expat-tax/213322-regularise-my-tax-position.html



so she did - but not on the question here - & it seems that no-one on this forum visited the tax forum

in any case - she HAS had a reply on this thread, so with any luck she'll come back & see it

the rest of the info on the thread will almost certainly be useful to someone else if not to her


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

extranjero said:


> Nothing to do with being judgmental. Whatever your circumstances, you should try and follow the rules. why should those who flout the laws and live happily under the radar be excused, and those trying to live legally subsidise them?
> In which circumstances would YOU say it is ok to cheat the system?


I complete agree with you, and wasnt suggesting that its Ok to cheat the system. 

What I was saying is that not everyone is as smart and thoughtful as you. Some people are maybe a bit less savvy and intelligent, and you comments towards them would be interpreted as a bit harsh. They pay the price when caught, but it doesnt necessarily follow that they are all crooks.


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## Campesina (Dec 17, 2011)

xabiachica said:


> so she did - but not on the question here - & it seems that no-one on this forum visited the tax forum...


Well, I obviously did otherwise I wouldn't have seen it.


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

Campesina said:


> Well, I obviously did otherwise I wouldn't have seen it.


Which doesn't make it 'obvious' as you put it. We can't be expected to trawl all threads to find information that should be on this thread.

If the OP was at all interested in getting an answer to their problem, surely they would have come back to the thread.


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## Campesina (Dec 17, 2011)

I didn't 'trawl all threads...'. I have neither the time nor the inclination to do so but I noticed that the OP only had made two posts so I implemented the simple expedient of using the 'search users posts' facility to see if the other one was related... which it was. Simple really.


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