# The Good, the Bad and the "Ugly"



## wingsofsunrise (Apr 27, 2010)

Greetings all,
This is more than likely the last place I would have thought of searching for help because most forums are very positive, full of excitement and new experiences and I would think it very rare indeed that anyone would happen upon the question I am about to ask. We moved to Portugal because we fell in love with the place and the people. Of course it helped my husband being Portuguese even though he had resided his whole life in the UK until our move 12 months ago.
Our one error was the choice of location to move to. We were buying a small cafe/bar with residence attached in a small country town, central Portugal and close to the border of Spain. The most amazing and beautiful countryside. That's where the horror story begins. We discovered the people we were purchasing off were in fact trying to defraud us so after months of renovations and trying to restablish the small business the brakes were put on with the purchase. Fortunately under Portuguese law we are fully protected but this process will take approximately 5 years to complete. The small town is rather full of unscrupulous people and even some of the locals have stated it was the worst part of Portugal we could have ever chosen to move to. We've been threatened both verbally and physically, discriminated against, harassed, stolen from and even racist comments made towards my husband because they don't class Madeirans here as being Portuguese. The latest form of harrassment has been the illegal disconnection of our water service to our business and residence. We have now been without water and santitation for close to 2 months now and although we have legal representation (who I might add is working on a commission basis) nothing has been done to rectify the situation as it's a huge money generator for them so they are taking their sweet time. Of course due to health and safety reasons we had to close our bar and since that time we've run out of money and now reduced to all but begging and no funds to switch legal firms to get this dealt with swiftly. I've contacted the United Nations Commissioner for Human Rights, Australian Embassy, DECO, SIC TV, Provedor de Justica, The President of the Republic of Portugal. The responses I received were from the President who says it warrants his personal attention and Provedor de Justica who is investigating. All others organisations I have contacted stated they are unable to assist. I assume it may be only another matter of weeks before we get the water reinstated and then the suit for all damages commence. Unfortunately, we received no advice and/or information on being able to obtain emergency financial assistance during all my attempts at pleading for help and we are in pretty much a crisis situation with no water, sanitation, money, food or family to assist. 

I'm hoping that someone out there may have some idea of who we can turn to for emergency financial assistance not including the local states as they are the ones we are suing. I've tried every resource I can think of and no longer have no idea where to turn or who to ask for help. If anyone knows of any organisation that can assist then it would be greatly appreciated. The horror just continues!


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## Mr.Blueskies (Feb 24, 2009)

That is a truly shocking situation that you now find yourselves in. The
portuguese do in many ways seem to be a law unto themselves and they most
certainly do have a way of frustrating the hell out of you and just wearing you
down. Sorry to say that I cannot offer any practicle help or solution. The trouble
is as I see it, that once you have got on the wrong side of them ( even though it is their own fault) even if you do manage to gets things sorted through legal 
means, you probably will no longer wish to remain there among them anyway.

It is something of a catch 22 situation. Sorry that I cannot offer any helpful advice. Good luck.


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## John999 (Jul 6, 2009)

hi and welcome to the forum
The only 2 places you might be able to get some sort of help are the Portuguese social services or your own embassy. Can´t see any other organisation capable to help over here


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## wingsofsunrise (Apr 27, 2010)

*the Good the bad and the "ugly"*

Thank you John and blueskies for your response.

Fortunately, I'm wise enough not to stereotype Portugal by our experience here as other personal experience has taught me differently but I certainly don't wish to remain in this part of Portugal with what we've constantly had to endure. As for contacting the embassy, that was one of my first ports of call when all of this kicked off, but as I'm a resident of portugal there is no assistance they are able to offer us with the exception of ringing occasionally to check in on me and offer me moral support.

At the end of the day and with the changes to Portuguese law, we are going end up quite well off as both situations we are involved in is a win win case set down by the new laws. However, with the way things move very slowly here, it doesn't assist with our current situation. I remember travelling to so many parts of the world and feeling sorry everytime I came across a homeless sitting on the streets begging for money which I could never ignore. I now know and understand the humiliation, embarrassment and degradation they must have felt. What's worse is the local government owes us quite a substantial amount of money, but as the funds set aside for reimbursement of such was spent fraudulently by way of buying peoples votes for the recent local government election back in September they now have no funds left to reimburse us what is owed.

Yep certainly a catch 22 situation. Certainly makes me reminisce about home and the UK and the respect and equality they showed to foreginers.

Thanks again for your input and kind words.
Alison


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## PETERFC (Apr 3, 2009)

*Reply*



wingsofsunrise said:


> Thank you John and blueskies for your response.
> 
> Fortunately, I'm wise enough not to stereotype Portugal by our experience here as other personal experience has taught me differently but I certainly don't wish to remain in this part of Portugal with what we've constantly had to endure. As for contacting the embassy, that was one of my first ports of call when all of this kicked off, but as I'm a resident of portugal there is no assistance they are able to offer us with the exception of ringing occasionally to check in on me and offer me moral support.
> 
> ...


Hi Alison

It's a very sad tale and i am so sorry for you. It's not much but keep logging in here and we will try and keep you smiling.

Peterfc 666?


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## sarah.rawlinson (Mar 19, 2010)

Hi, I'm not shocked by your experience! I had to move back to the Uk 2 yrs ago and leave my house in the hands of a disreputable agent. My house has been empty for 9months yet my solicitor who is acting on my behalf is telling me I have to pay extortionate utility bills although everything had been switched off! eg: my water bill has ranged from 900 euros which is 3 times what I'm paying here in the UK!!! to 400 euros and now 750 euros my solicitor in Portugal has yet to e mail mr proof or a copy of this bill, the water company has been on to my property and removed the water meter!!!!! so know it can't be read, the same is happening with my electric and to add insult to injury there price alters too. I don't know whos telling the truth anymore and now I've got penalties incurred on a daily basis until my solicitor tells me the final amount. Consequently I'm working two jobs to now pay off decietful
lying utility companies if its actually them ?????? I empathise with you whollly! the only consolation you got is time and like you said change in the law! good luck to you both!
Sarah x


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## PETERFC (Apr 3, 2009)

*Reply*



sarah.rawlinson said:


> Hi, I'm not shocked by your experience! I had to move back to the Uk 2 yrs ago and leave my house in the hands of a disreputable agent. My house has been empty for 9months yet my solicitor who is acting on my behalf is telling me I have to pay extortionate utility bills although everything had been switched off! eg: my water bill has ranged from 900 euros which is 3 times what I'm paying here in the UK!!! to 400 euros and now 750 euros my solicitor in Portugal has yet to e mail mr proof or a copy of this bill, the water company has been on to my property and removed the water meter!!!!! so know it can't be read, the same is happening with my electric and to add insult to injury there price alters too. I don't know whos telling the truth anymore and now I've got penalties incurred on a daily basis until my solicitor tells me the final amount. Consequently I'm working two jobs to now pay off decietful
> lying utility companies if its actually them ?????? I empathise with you whollly! the only consolation you got is time and like you said change in the law! good luck to you both!
> Sarah x


Hi Sarah

If i may say it looks like you are being ripped of. It amy be time to get things in order a new honest Lawyer seems top of the list, if you are working two jobs then you need to get things done properly. 

Why not ask for help from the Forum from those who have used a good lawyer.

Good luck

Peterfc 666?


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## John999 (Jul 6, 2009)

Bought my first property in Portugal, praia da rocha, in the early 80´s, left the algarve a few years ago, we live on silver coast now. Our "new" house is our fifth buy in this country, and i have to say, we never had problems like that. A good homework and triple checking everything, has been our way to go, and that includes checking your lawyer/solicitor, and the people who takes you to them.Water/electric companies will treat you the same way as anyone else, if not better. Moving to a different country is never easy:
1. Homework
2. learn about the culture and see if you can feat in
3. Don´t expect especial treatment, at the end of the day you are the outsider, and if anyone is doing a favour, it´s them and not you who does it
4. Double check new friends, meaning locals and other expats
5. Before you sign anything make sure you know really what you signing

If anything goes wrong you will be the only one to blame for


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## sarah.rawlinson (Mar 19, 2010)

Hi Peter, thanks for your reply, my solicitor is supposed to be a top one! she's charging me 250 euros a year to represent me! i can't recall the term they use in portugal but i guess she's the equivalent of a barrister over here maybe you can remember the term.
I'm absolutely sick of paying out! she will not send me evidence of a final bill. After reading the horror story of the couple whose thread i replied too I dare'nt not pay! you never know if they'll take the house off me or remove items!
It's hard to believe its an EU country when so much fraudulent activity can take place with little or no support from government agencies etc. Scary stuff!
thanks sarah..........


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## John999 (Jul 6, 2009)

have you asked yourself what have you done wrong???because you are one in a million


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## Mr.Blueskies (Feb 24, 2009)

"One in a million ? Most certainly NOT !


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## omostra06 (Sep 11, 2007)

sarah.rawlinson said:


> Hi Peter, thanks for your reply, my solicitor is supposed to be a top one! she's charging me 250 euros a year to represent me! i can't recall the term they use in portugal but i guess she's the equivalent of a barrister over here maybe you can remember the term.
> I'm absolutely sick of paying out! she will not send me evidence of a final bill. After reading the horror story of the couple whose thread i replied too I dare'nt not pay! you never know if they'll take the house off me or remove items!
> It's hard to believe its an EU country when so much fraudulent activity can take place with little or no support from government agencies etc. Scary stuff!
> thanks sarah..........


Sarah it does sound like you are being ripped off, those bills are too high for an empty house, you need to do something to stop this happening to you.

Write to your lawyer and tell them you no longer want them to represent you,

Find another lawyer. i suspect that this one is making money from you with false bills, especially if you dont get to see the bills. an empty house should cost around 10-15 euros per month for both utillities.

organise your own utillity bills, get the meters read, set up a direct debit for both accounts. if your in pt or not, you do not have to pay these bills through a lawyer. this way you get to see what the bills are and keep an eye on the payments/useage etc.

Think about putting someone into the house, this will help you with the costs and may even make you some money, you could rent the house out, even if you charge enough to cover all your costs.


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## sarah.rawlinson (Mar 19, 2010)

Thank you again for more sound adivce!
My house was let out and the agent that was looking after the tenants appears to have not paid the utility bills as he was collecting it off the tenants.
My house needs to be let and fortunately through this forum I've finally managed to find a reputable agent. As I'm living here in the UK its be very difficult for me to keep tabs on bills and trusting unscruplous agents etc.
Hopefully my Solicitor will provide evidence this week of the final bills otherwise as you suggest I will be using someone else!


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## stephanie (Nov 11, 2008)

wingsofsunrise said:


> Greetings all,
> This is more than likely the last place I would have thought of searching for help because most forums are very positive, full of excitement and new experiences and I would think it very rare indeed that anyone would happen upon the question I am about to ask. We moved to Portugal because we fell in love with the place and the people. Of course it helped my husband being Portuguese even though he had resided his whole life in the UK until our move 12 months ago.
> Our one error was the choice of location to move to. We were buying a small cafe/bar with residence attached in a small country town, central Portugal and close to the border of Spain. The most amazing and beautiful countryside. That's where the horror story begins. We discovered the people we were purchasing off were in fact trying to defraud us so after months of renovations and trying to restablish the small business the brakes were put on with the purchase. Fortunately under Portuguese law we are fully protected but this process will take approximately 5 years to complete. The small town is rather full of unscrupulous people and even some of the locals have stated it was the worst part of Portugal we could have ever chosen to move to. We've been threatened both verbally and physically, discriminated against, harassed, stolen from and even racist comments made towards my husband because they don't class Madeirans here as being Portuguese. The latest form of harrassment has been the illegal disconnection of our water service to our business and residence. We have now been without water and santitation for close to 2 months now and although we have legal representation (who I might add is working on a commission basis) nothing has been done to rectify the situation as it's a huge money generator for them so they are taking their sweet time. Of course due to health and safety reasons we had to close our bar and since that time we've run out of money and now reduced to all but begging and no funds to switch legal firms to get this dealt with swiftly. I've contacted the United Nations Commissioner for Human Rights, Australian Embassy, DECO, SIC TV, Provedor de Justica, The President of the Republic of Portugal. The responses I received were from the President who says it warrants his personal attention and Provedor de Justica who is investigating. All others organisations I have contacted stated they are unable to assist. I assume it may be only another matter of weeks before we get the water reinstated and then the suit for all damages commence. Unfortunately, we received no advice and/or information on being able to obtain emergency financial assistance during all my attempts at pleading for help and we are in pretty much a crisis situation with no water, sanitation, money, food or family to assist.
> 
> I'm hoping that someone out there may have some idea of who we can turn to for emergency financial assistance not including the local states as they are the ones we are suing. I've tried every resource I can think of and no longer have no idea where to turn or who to ask for help. If anyone knows of any organisation that can assist then it would be greatly appreciated. The horror just continues!


Wow! You are not having much luck are you? We were rather financially desperate ourselves last year - although I have to say that everything else was fine. But if you have access to a computer and are computer literate (which you clearly are) then you should look at this website: Hacked By: Gaurav_Raj420 I heard about it on BBC radio 4 and I'm sure it is completely genuine.
The idea is that you register for the sort of work you can do and then bid for jobs. Obviously employers will not just pick the lowest bid so you need to put together a good CV too. But the point is that you could get work from home and be paid for it! 
Unfortunately, there are rather a lot of people looking for work at the moment so this brings the rates down a bit, but anything is better than nothing when you are stuck isn't it!?

I really wish you luck with all your problems,

Stephanie


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