# Free health care and tarjeta sanitaria/SIP cards - NEW RULES SUCCESS STORY!



## chica de cocentaina

This is something very new, and is of interest to all of us who are legal and registered for tax purposes in Spain. Do not believe all the negative coverage in the local English press about the new healthcare rules in Spain, if you are legally registered as a fiscal resident of Spain, you are now entitled to a social security number and SIP card (providing your income is less than 100k a year).

The new law gives EU residents in Spain (regardless of age) the same rights as Spanish citizens. To prove the point my husband and I downloaded Form TA1 from the government website, filled it in and presented it along with the necessary paperwork to our local TGSS office. We walked out 15 minutes later with a Spanish social security number.

We went straight to the local health centre, handed them the TGSS form and a copy of our up to date padron and passport, and were immediately issued with a provisional SIP card, with the promise that the permanent plastic version would be ready for collection before Christmas.
We often wondered why we had bothered to do everything legally when we moved to Spain in 2008, as no-one else seemed to bother, now it seems we are getting the reward for doing everything by the book.
By the way,we retired early, and still have several years to go before we reach state pension age, so this change in the law is an incredible benefit to us. We pay for private health care, but there are numerous exclusions on the policy due to pre-existing conditions, so potentially we could have faced serious problems without state health cover.My husband's company pension was taxed in the UK, but now we are fiscally resident in Spain we fall below the tax threshold, so for us it's better in more ways than one to be legal.


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## xabiaxica

chica de cocentaina said:


> This is something very new, and is of interest to all of us who are legal and registered for tax purposes in Spain. Do not believe all the negative coverage in the local English press about the new healthcare rules in Spain, if you are legally registered as a fiscal resident of Spain, you are now entitled to a social security number and SIP card (providing your income is less than 100k a year).
> 
> The new law gives EU residents in Spain (regardless of age) the same rights as Spanish citizens. To prove the point my husband and I downloaded Form TA1 from the government website, filled it in and presented it along with the necessary paperwork to our local TGSS office. We walked out 15 minutes later with a Spanish social security number.
> 
> We went straight to the local health centre, handed them the TGSS form and a copy of our up to date padron and passport, and were immediately issued with a provisional SIP card, with the promise that the permanent plastic version would be ready for collection before Christmas.
> We often wondered why we had bothered to do everything legally when we moved to Spain in 2008, as no-one else seemed to bother, now it seems we are getting the reward for doing everything by the book.
> By the way,we retired early, and still have several years to go before we reach state pension age, so this change in the law is an incredible benefit to us. We pay for private health care, but there are numerous exclusions on the policy due to pre-existing conditions, so potentially we could have faced serious problems without state health cover.My husband's company pension was taxed in the UK, but now we are fiscally resident in Spain we fall below the tax threshold, so for us it's better in more ways than one to be legal.


that's such brilliant news!! I was hoping someone would do this & succeed :clap2:

I suspect a lot of people who have been here for years will be kicking themselves that they haven't registered soon enough or done tax returns & so on - well done you! 

I don't suppose you have a link for the form? I can put it on the FAQs then


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## chica de cocentaina

*Free health care and SIP cards*



xabiachica said:


> that's such brilliant news!! I was hoping someone would do this & succeed :clap2:
> 
> I suspect a lot of people who have been here for years will be kicking themselves that they haven't registered soon enough or done tax returns & so on - well done you!
> 
> I don't suppose you have a link for the form? I can put it on the FAQs then


The following web site gives the link for the form download and also gives a clear example of how to complete it:

Spanish Social Security Number: How to apply using the form TA1Costa Consulting Bureau


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## xabiaxica

chica de cocentaina said:


> The following web site gives the link for the form download and also gives a clear example of how to complete it:
> 
> Spanish Social Security Number: How to apply using the form TA1Costa Consulting Bureau


ta muchly


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## jimenato

Very good info.:clap2:

Mrs J and I already have health card/soc sec numbers but as she finished work a couple of years ago and I did a couple of months ago our health cover will stop at the end of this month.

Anybody got any idea how we sort that out? Presumably we cut into this process at some point. 

We are tax resident here and earn somewhat less than 100,000


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## jimenato

Also - does the fact that you have a soc sec number and a health card mean that you can get free health care?


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## xabiaxica

jimenato said:


> Also - does the fact that you have a soc sec number and a health card mean that you can get free health care?


that's exactly what it means - they are now entitled to the full range of state healthcare


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## gus-lopez

jimenato said:


> Very good info.:clap2:
> 
> Mrs J and I already have health card/soc sec numbers but as she finished work a couple of years ago and I did a couple of months ago our health cover will stop at the end of this month.
> 
> Anybody got any idea how we sort that out? Presumably we cut into this process at some point.
> 
> We are tax resident here and earn somewhat less than 100,000


You should be able to apply using the ' Solicitud de Reconocimiento del derecho a la Asistencia Sanitaria de la Seguridad Social '. 
Obtainable from the INEM/SEPE office. Once completed & an appointment made, assuming you are entitled ( It would only be too much income which would prevent that) you will receive a ' Documento acreditativo del derecho a asistencia sanitaria ' which you take to the centro salud for renewal / registration.


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## jimenato

gus-lopez said:


> You should be able to apply using the ' Solicitud de Reconocimiento del derecho a la Asistencia Sanitaria de la Seguridad Social '.
> Obtainable from the INEM/SEPE office. Once completed & an appointment made, assuming you are entitled ( It would only be too much income which would prevent that) you will receive a ' Documento acreditativo del derecho a asistencia sanitaria ' which you take to the centro salud for renewal / registration.


Cheers Gus. Do you know what 'too much income' is? Is it this 100,000 that has been mentioned?


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## expatrocks

Does this only apply if you became a legal resident some time ago?


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## chica de cocentaina

yes you had to have been legally registered, as in residencia before April 24th 2012...if you haven't got your residencia before that date, you will have to jump through hoops to get one!
From now on to obtain a residencia you will have to prove that you have sufficient means to be able to support yourself in Spain and not become a burden on the state. You will also have to prove that you have sufficient private medical insurance


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## expatrocks

I just received Spanish residency 2 days ago, but I can't receive the medical card, correct?


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## xabiaxica

expatrocks said:


> I just received Spanish residency 2 days ago, but I can't receive the medical card, correct?


it depends............

iirc you are married to a Spanish national??

in your case you could be registered as a dependant I believe - though I'm not sure - it might depend upon your spouse's own situation


in other cases though, you'd need to be working & paying into the system to get a card


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## gus-lopez

jimenato said:


> Cheers Gus. Do you know what 'too much income' is? Is it this 100,000 that has been mentioned?



Sorry, I've no idea.


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## xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxenjoylife

chica de cocentaina said:


> This is something very new, and is of interest to all of us who are legal and registered for tax purposes in Spain. Do not believe all the negative coverage in the local English press about the new healthcare rules in Spain, if you are legally registered as a fiscal resident of Spain, you are now entitled to a social security number and SIP card (providing your income is less than 100k a year).
> 
> The new law gives EU residents in Spain (regardless of age) the same rights as Spanish citizens. To prove the point my husband and I downloaded Form TA1 from the government website, filled it in and presented it along with the necessary paperwork to our local TGSS office. We walked out 15 minutes later with a Spanish social security number.
> 
> We went straight to the local health centre, handed them the TGSS form and a copy of our up to date padron and passport, and were immediately issued with a provisional SIP card, with the promise that the permanent plastic version would be ready for collection before Christmas.
> We often wondered why we had bothered to do everything legally when we moved to Spain in 2008, as no-one else seemed to bother, now it seems we are getting the reward for doing everything by the book.
> By the way,we retired early, and still have several years to go before we reach state pension age, so this change in the law is an incredible benefit to us. We pay for private health care, but there are numerous exclusions on the policy due to pre-existing conditions, so potentially we could have faced serious problems without state health cover.My husband's company pension was taxed in the UK, but now we are fiscally resident in Spain we fall below the tax threshold, so for us it's better in more ways than one to be legal.


excellent News.....thanks for that


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## expatrocks

> iirc you are married to a Spanish national??
> 
> in your case you could be registered as a dependant I believe - though I'm not sure - it might depend upon your spouse's own situation


I am married to a Spanish citizen. How can I get more info on this?



> in other cases though, you'd need to be working & paying into the system to get a card


I may be starting an online business in Spain. Would that get me the card?


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## xabiaxica

expatrocks said:


> I am married to a Spanish citizen. How can I get more info on this?


I always ask my gestor about this sort of thing if I don't know the answer - your OH would probably know one


expatrocks said:


> I may be starting an online business in Spain. Would that get me the card?


yes - if you register as autónomo you will get full access to healthcare & in the future you'd also get a pension


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## xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxenjoylife

I have a social security number as autonomo but from 10 years ago
is this still valid?

If yes ,as I understood I only need to go to I n e m to apply for solicitud
de reconocimiento del derecho a la asistencia Sanitaria?

Thanks


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## xabiaxica

enjoylife said:


> I have a social security number as autonomo but from 10 years ago
> is this still valid?
> 
> If yes ,as I understood I only need to go to I n e m to apply for solicitud
> de reconocimiento del derecho a la asistencia Sanitaria?
> 
> Thanks


I suspect they'll want to see a current resident registration cert.....


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## xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxenjoylife

xabiachica said:


> I suspect they'll want to see a current resident registration cert.....


yes I got this one also.....


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## snikpoh

enjoylife said:


> I have a social security number as autonomo but from 10 years ago
> is this still valid?
> 
> If yes ,as I understood I only need to go to I n e m to apply for solicitud
> de reconocimiento del derecho a la asistencia Sanitaria?
> 
> Thanks


As this was 10 years ago, whilst you hold onto the number, hasn't your right to free health care lapsed after you stoped making the autonomo payments?

Obviously, once you start paying again then the health cover starts.


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## xabiaxica

enjoylife said:


> yes I got this one also.....


then as long as you were registered (with the new green resident registration cert) & fiscally resident before April 24th you should be OK

let us know how you get on


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## xabiaxica

snikpoh said:


> As this was 10 years ago, whilst you hold onto the number, hasn't your right to free health care lapsed after you stoped making the autonomo payments?
> 
> Obviously, once you start paying again then the health cover starts.


yes, but IF as in the case of the OP he was properly registered & fiscally resident before April 24th this year, that shouldn't make a difference now


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## xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxenjoylife

xabiachica said:


> then as long as you were registered (with the new green resident registration cert) & fiscally resident before April 24th you should be OK
> 
> let us know how you get on



Actually I have been this morning at the INEM office they said
I need to apply at the CENTRO SANITARIO....
let you know further details.....


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## Sunhat

Husband and I, both retired early, tax residents etc. We both have a SS number, and we have the orange cards. They are chip and pin cards. On the back it says Junta de Andalucia, Consejería de salud and Tarjeta Sanitaria. 
Our neighbour who works as a secretary at the local ´hospital´ (a kind of out patients hospital) checked about 5 years ago and said we had no NHS health cover, so since then we have paid into the private system. 

Any ideas as to what we can do to find out if we are covered?


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## snikpoh

xabiachica said:


> yes, but IF as in the case of the OP he was properly registered & fiscally resident before April 24th this year, that shouldn't make a difference now



I'm confused (not hard these days), on what basis would they be granted free health care?

Are they pensioners?
Are they paying into the system?
Did they use their (up to) 2 years reciprocal cover last time or are they entitled to it again?

We're properly registered, fiscally resident before April 24th but can't get free health care for any of us (including children). My children even have SS numbers (don't know how or why but they have).


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## xabiaxica

snikpoh said:


> I'm confused (not hard these days), on what basis would they be granted free health care?
> 
> Are they pensioners?
> Are they paying into the system?
> Did they use their (up to) 2 years reciprocal cover last time or are they entitled to it again?
> 
> We're properly registered, fiscally resident before April 24th but can't get free health care for any of us (including children). My children even have SS numbers (don't know how or why but they have).


they are covered under the new rules which came in 1st September - the ones which say all legal residents are entitled to free health care

they aren't pensioners, they don't pay into the system - maybe they did have 2 years worth of cover at first - but that's not relevant

you _should _now be able to get it, just like they did

I'm a bit  tbh - I could get it too - both the legally registered way & because I actually have S1s for all 3 of us................ but as I can't afford to give up work completely & couldn't sleep nights if I worked 'on the black' even just a little bit I'll just have to carry on paying the 270€+ a month autónomo...........


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## Sunhat

I am so confused- easily done I know. 

I thought the new rules said folk had to be able to ´support themselves´ with an income and medical cover? We renewed our residencia´s 2 years ago, we have the large sheet of paper one. 


Where can we find the new rules from 1st September?:ranger:

Sunhat


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## Sunhat

OH has been looking on the net, he thinks he has found the info so Wednesday morning we will head off to the SS office, so fingers crossed - we could spend the money we save on a new car

Sunhat


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## gus-lopez

snikpoh said:


> I'm confused (not hard these days), on what basis would they be granted free health care?
> 
> Are they pensioners?
> Are they paying into the system?
> Did they use their (up to) 2 years reciprocal cover last time or are they entitled to it again?
> 
> We're properly registered, fiscally resident before April 24th but can't get free health care for any of us (including children). My children even have SS numbers (don't know how or why but they have).


The new Health care rules were introduced last year & enacted into law in january this year. They basically mean that nearly anyone who is spanish or legally resident foreigner ( before 24th april this year ) is entitled to h/care subject to circumstances. If you are a resident ,before april, & have an income below the minimum then you are entitled to healthcare. You do not have to be of pensionable age. If you have an income , from private pension , savings , etc; above the minimum then you will struggle to get it , even though the rules say you are entitled the same as a spaniard.

The new residency rules , brought in on april 24th were designed to stop the immigrants , illegals, & anyone from the EU that wasn't legally registered from all being entitled to free healthcare.
They are two completely separate things & are being confused by many .

Your children, under the age of 18, are entitled to full healthcare under both Spanish & EU laws.

Here , Artí**** I last line . page 31286.
" En todo caso, los extranjeros menores de dieciocho años recibirán asistencia sanitaria en las mismas condiciones que los españoles.»"

http://www.boe.es/boe/dias/2012/04/24/pdfs/BOE-A-2012-5403.pdf
Print it , highlight & go & argue again.

As residents before this year you qualify under the old rules , as updated, & shown here in Artí**** 12 . ( take no notice that it is year 2000 , it is the same on the 2009 one )

" Article 12. The Right to Health Care.
1. Foreign nationals in Spain who are registered in the census of the municipality in
which they normally reside shall have the right to health care in the same
conditions as Spaniards.
8
2. Foreign nationals in Spain have the right to emergency public health care in the
case of serious illness or accident, whatever the cause, and to the continuance of
such care, until a medical release has been given.
3. Foreign nationals in Spain who are younger than eighteen years of age shall
have the right to health care in the same conditions as Spaniards.
4. Foreign nationals in Spain who are pregnant shall have the right to pre-natal,
delivery and post-natal health care."

from here

http://www.unhcr.org/refworld/pdfid/402237554.pdf

If they still deny you , then make an official complaint using the ' hojas de 
reclamación ' & also to the EU throughtheir SOLVIT system.

EU – Do you need help? – Your Europe


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## Alcalaina

But does Article 12 specify that all this healthcare will be free? Might you get a bill for emergency treatment, for example?


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## xabiaxica

Alcalaina said:


> But does Article 12 specify that all this healthcare will be free? Might you get a bill for emergency treatment, for example?


if you are issued with a tarjeta sanitaria then you are on an equal footing with citizens, surely?


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## jimenato

xabiachica said:


> if you are issued with a tarjeta sanitaria then you are on an equal footing with citizens, surely?


Having a tarjeta sanitaria and a social security number does not in itself entitle you to free healthcare. I have both and I am not entitled. I am going to try to sort this out tomorrow - I will let you know how I get on.


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## Sunhat

jimenato said:


> Having a tarjeta sanitaria and a social security number does not in itself entitle you to free healthcare. I have both and I am not entitled. I am going to try to sort this out tomorrow - I will let you know how I get on.


Same here, we are going to try to sort it out tomorrow 

Sunhat


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## xabiaxica

jimenato said:


> Having a tarjeta sanitaria and a social security number does not in itself entitle you to free healthcare. I have both and I am not entitled. I am going to try to sort this out tomorrow - I will let you know how I get on.


well yes, tarjetas can/could be cancelled - under the rules once you stopped working your healthcare only continued for 3 months - however, under the new rules apparently all legal & fiscal residents from before April 24th, (such as you?) that would seem to no longer be the case :confused2:

good luck - let us know how you get on


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## snikpoh

As I have had it explained to me, nothing much has changed.


Ex-pats are treated exactly as though they were Spanish nationals rolleyes.

That is, if they are below the 'poverty' line then they can go "sin recurso" and get FREE health care. In all other cases, they must pay into the system to get anything - whether via a UK pension or by working in Spain and paying SS contributions.

Ex-pats who have retired early and are not working in Spain get NOTHING - even under the 'new' ruling. I know people quote an income figure of 100,000 euros per year but who the heck earns that much???

I still think it depends on who you ask - it is all as clear as mud even for the Spanish officials.


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## xabiaxica

snikpoh said:


> As I have had it explained to me, nothing much has changed.
> 
> 
> Ex-pats are treated exactly as though they were Spanish nationals rolleyes.
> 
> That is, if they are below the 'poverty' line then they can go "sin recurso" and get FREE health care. In all other cases, they must pay into the system to get anything - whether via a UK pension or by working in Spain and paying SS contributions.
> 
> Ex-pats who have retired early and are not working in Spain get NOTHING - even under the 'new' ruling. I know people quote an income figure of 100,000 euros per year but who the heck earns that much???
> 
> I still think it depends on who you ask - it is all as clear as mud even for the Spanish officials.


but the OP *did *get cards when they couldn't before..........


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## gus-lopez

Alcalaina said:


> But does Article 12 specify that all this healthcare will be free? Might you get a bill for emergency treatment, for example?


No because emergency treatment is free to all in all EU countries. I don't know about Spain but in the UK as soon as you are moved from A&E to a ward then the UK will give you a bill .


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## xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxenjoylife

I have been this morning at the Marbella Seguridad Social Office
I think it is not so easy to get the Tarjeta Sanitaria .....

first the ask me, if I live with somebody or alone !!

1. certificado de no cobrar pension ni tener asistencia sanitaria de mi pais( which is Austria)
2. certificado de la agencia tributaria de mi pais de no tener rentas sujetas a tributacion...

this is the latest information at least here in Marbella...it is possible in a other
region of spain the way to receive the health card its easier..


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## snikpoh

enjoylife said:


> I have been this morning at the Marbella Seguridad Social Office
> I think it is not so easy to get the Tarjeta Sanitaria .....
> 
> first the ask me, if I live with somebody or alone !!
> 
> 1. certificado de no cobrar pension ni tener asistencia sanitaria de mi pais( which is Austria)
> 2. certificado de la agencia tributaria de mi pais de no tener rentas sujetas a tributacion...
> 
> this is the latest information at least here in Marbella...it is possible in a other
> region of spain the way to receive the health card its easier..




This is quite standard, we have to get the same documents from the UK as well - probably the same for all European countries.


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## gus-lopez

& that is what I was told. i obtained both, made an appointment at which I was then told that all that was required was the 
A)letter stating that I had no entitlement to healthcare in the UK & was not in receipt of a pension or any benefits. 
B) residents certificate + passport to back it up 
C) Completed 'reconocimiento etc; form
D) Marriage cert; childrens full birth certs; if adding beneficiaries

There was no requirement to show any income tax form ,even though we had them. 
Actually they cannot legally ask you this question as an EU resident . They did not ask me , only for A above; which in the UK, is called a 'letter of legislation ' & is available in any language.

I asked the question of the EU legal advisors & was told that it is illegal to ask a question of an EU permanent resident , that would not be asked of a Spanish national & therefore they cannot ask whether you have income from another country.If I remember correctly the rules covering this are EU directive 883/4


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## jimenato

gus-lopez said:


> & that is what I was told. i obtained both, made an appointment at which I was then told that all that was required was the
> A)letter stating that I had no entitlement to healthcare in the UK & was not in receipt of a pension or any benefits.
> B) residents certificate + passport to back it up
> C) Completed 'reconocimiento etc; form
> D) Marriage cert; childrens full birth certs; if adding beneficiaries
> 
> There was no requirement to show any income tax form ,even though we had them.
> Actually they cannot legally ask you this question as an EU resident . They did not ask me , only for A above; which in the UK, is called a 'letter of legislation ' & is available in any language.
> 
> I asked the question of the EU legal advisors & was told that it is illegal to ask a question of an EU permanent resident , that would not be asked of a Spanish national & therefore they cannot ask whether you have income from another country.If I remember correctly the rules covering this are EU directive 883/4


Who do you ask for the letter of entitlement?


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## xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxenjoylife

gus-lopez said:


> & that is what I was told. i obtained both, made an appointment at which I was then told that all that was required was the
> A)letter stating that I had no entitlement to healthcare in the UK & was not in receipt of a pension or any benefits.
> B) residents certificate + passport to back it up
> C) Completed 'reconocimiento etc; form
> D) Marriage cert; childrens full birth certs; if adding beneficiaries
> 
> There was no requirement to show any income tax form ,even though we had them.
> Actually they cannot legally ask you this question as an EU resident . They did not ask me , only for A above; which in the UK, is called a 'letter of legislation ' & is available in any language.
> 
> I asked the question of the EU legal advisors & was told that it is illegal to ask a question of an EU permanent resident , that would not be asked of a Spanish national & therefore they cannot ask whether you have income from another country.If I remember correctly the rules covering this are EU directive 883/4





A)letter stating that I had no entitlement to healthcare in the UK & was not in receipt of a pension or any benefits.

from where did you get this letter?from the consulat in Spain?

thanks


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## gus-lopez

The letter is obtained from the Overseas Healthcare Team (Newcastle):

Overseas Healthcare Team (Newcastle)
Room TC001
Tyneview Park
Whitley Road
Newcastle upon Tyne
NE98 1BA

Phone 0191 218 1999 (Monday to Friday 8am-5pm).

You will receive a covering letter , in English, & a letter setting out that you have no entitlement etc; in Spanish.

I actually posted all this before & thought xabiachica had added it to the stickies.


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## gus-lopez

enjoylife said:


> A)letter stating that I had no entitlement to healthcare in the UK & was not in receipt of a pension or any benefits.
> 
> from where did you get this letter?from the consulat in Spain?
> 
> thanks


You would have to get yours from the Austrian equivalent of the UK's ' Overseas health care' section.


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## Clemmie00

I'm so confused. I just moved to Spain, obtained my NIE, am working and will be registering for SS this week. I've been told by my boss that this will entitle me to full health care in Spain and that I just need to register with a doctor etc. Is this accurate?


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## jojo

Clemmie00 said:


> I'm so confused. I just moved to Spain, obtained my NIE, am working and will be registering for SS this week. I've been told by my boss that this will entitle me to full health care in Spain and that I just need to register with a doctor etc. Is this accurate?


Yes!! As long as you have an employment contract!!!! I have to be honest, I havent read thru this thread, but I'm sure it applies to those who have lived in Spain prior to the changes?????

Jo xxx


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## xabiaxica

jojo said:


> Yes!! As long as you have an employment contract!!!! I have to be honest, I havent read thru this thread, but I'm sure it applies to those who have lived in Spain prior to the changes?????
> 
> Jo xxx


you're right, it does

essentially the changes mean that those who were registered properly & doing tax returns before 24th April this year - ie, with all their paperwork in order - should now be able to get free state healthcare where previously they couldn't

conversely - a lot of people who somehow managed to obtain tarjetas sanitarias & yet _didn't _have all their paperwork in order, are finding that their cards are being cancelled.............

it's part of the same series of law changes which mean that new residents (after 24th April on paper, but certainly since September) have to have income & healthcare provision _already in place _before they can register


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## xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxenjoylife

Thanks a lot for this great infos........very much appreciated


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## chica de cocentaina

xabiachica said:


> you're right, it does
> 
> essentially the changes mean that those who were registered properly & doing tax returns before 24th April this year - ie, with all their paperwork in order - should now be able to get free state healthcare where previously they couldn't
> 
> conversely - a lot of people who somehow managed to obtain tarjetas sanitarias & yet _didn't _have all their paperwork in order, are finding that their cards are being cancelled.............
> 
> it's part of the same series of law changes which mean that new residents (after 24th April on paper, but certainly since September) have to have income & healthcare provision _already in place _before they can register


Thanks for putting this on...you have summarised the contents of my original post perfectly! For the record, we are early retirees, have registered for tax purposes, previously had temporary SIP cards when we first moved over here, but as we have only a Spanish address( because that is where we live!) we couldn't renew the temporary SIP cards.


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## jimenato

This is from a friend's blog in Tenerife.










These are the two relevant parts



> People who were registered as Spanish residents prior to 24th April 2012 and do not have entitlement to state healthcare paid for by the UK, (e.g. as a UK state pensioner) may now find they can register for the national health service in Spain as residents. If you think this may apply to you, then speak with your local INSS office to check your entitlement. Your local office can be found at www.segsocial.es


Which I think merely confirms what we already know, but...



> Those who do not have access to Spanish state-run healthcare by any other means should shortly be able to pay into a nation-wide Convenio Especial (Special Agreement). Contact your local health authority for further information, including how to register.


which I for one have not heard mentioned before


----------



## Megsmum

Costa News - Nationwide healthcare quota system

found this as well not sure if it helps anyone


----------



## gus-lopez

jimenato said:


> This is from a friend's blog in Tenerife.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> These are the two relevant parts
> 
> 
> 
> Which I think merely confirms what we already know, but...
> 
> 
> 
> which I for one have not heard mentioned before



Yes it is in the april 24th legislation but I'd forgotten about it as it just said 'to be worked out at a later date' which can mean never here.


----------



## Jonners

chica de cocentaina said:


> This is something very new, and is of interest to all of us who are legal and registered for tax purposes in Spain. Do not believe all the negative coverage in the local English press about the new healthcare rules in Spain, if you are legally registered as a fiscal resident of Spain, you are now entitled to a social security number and SIP card (providing your income is less than 100k a year).
> 
> The new law gives EU residents in Spain (regardless of age) the same rights as Spanish citizens. To prove the point my husband and I downloaded Form TA1 from the government website, filled it in and presented it along with the necessary paperwork to our local TGSS office. We walked out 15 minutes later with a Spanish social security number.
> 
> We went straight to the local health centre, handed them the TGSS form and a copy of our up to date padron and passport, and were immediately issued with a provisional SIP card, with the promise that the permanent plastic version would be ready for collection before Christmas.
> We often wondered why we had bothered to do everything legally when we moved to Spain in 2008, as no-one else seemed to bother, now it seems we are getting the reward for doing everything by the book.
> By the way,we retired early, and still have several years to go before we reach state pension age, so this change in the law is an incredible benefit to us. We pay for private health care, but there are numerous exclusions on the policy due to pre-existing conditions, so potentially we could have faced serious problems without state health cover.My husband's company pension was taxed in the UK, but now we are fiscally resident in Spain we fall below the tax threshold, so for us it's better in more ways than one to be legal.


This certainly sounds very encouraging but I wonder if anyone on this forum could help with the specific circumstances affecting my wife and I.

We purchased a second home in Spain in 2004 at which time we obtained a NIE and registered on the Padron. Since then we have paid all local taxes and I think of more relevance the Non Residents Tax.

Since 2004 we have both become pensioners in all senses of the word.

We are currently resident in the UK and obviously that is where we receive our healthcare. Our Doctor is very accommodating and provides us with up to 3 months of prescriptions at a time for our increasingly lengthy stays in Spain. (They will amount to almost 5 months this year.)

Whilst we are in Spain we rely on the EH1C for emergency cover and thankfully, so far, have not needed to use it. However given the increasing length of our stays this is probably a bit of a stretch and not what it was intended for. However because of previous medical conditions (hence the ongoing prescriptions) private medical insurance is prohibitively expensive.

So my question is this. Would we be entitled to a SIP card under the new rules even though we are non residents. Does paying the Non residents Tax along with the NIE give us a fiscal presence in Spain.

My concern is that during one of our stays we might need medical treatment that is not considered an emergency and also that the use of the EH1C for such lengthy stays could be called into question.

As an example of my worries is the recent experience of a friend on a 2 week holiday visit. He was stung by a wasp and went in to anaphylactic shock. He was sent to the new hospital in Denia by the local doctor and despite the EH1C Card the hospital demanded the immediate payment of 149 Euros before any treatment was given. It would appear that one medicos emergency could be another's routine illness LOL


----------



## xabiaxica

Jonners said:


> This certainly sounds very encouraging but I wonder if anyone on this forum could help with the specific circumstances affecting my wife and I.
> 
> We purchased a second home in Spain in 2004 at which time we obtained a NIE and registered on the Padron. Since then we have paid all local taxes and I think of more relevance the Non Residents Tax.
> 
> Since 2004 we have both become pensioners in all senses of the word.
> 
> We are currently resident in the UK and obviously that is where we receive our healthcare. Our Doctor is very accommodating and provides us with up to 3 months of prescriptions at a time for our increasingly lengthy stays in Spain. (They will amount to almost 5 months this year.)
> 
> Whilst we are in Spain we rely on the EH1C for emergency cover and thankfully, so far, have not needed to use it. However given the increasing length of our stays this is probably a bit of a stretch and not what it was intended for. However because of previous medical conditions (hence the ongoing prescriptions) private medical insurance is prohibitively expensive.
> 
> So my question is this. Would we be entitled to a SIP card under the new rules even though we are non residents. Does paying the Non residents Tax along with the NIE give us a fiscal presence in Spain.
> 
> My concern is that during one of our stays we might need medical treatment that is not considered an emergency and also that the use of the EH1C for such lengthy stays could be called into question.
> 
> As an example of my worries is the recent experience of a friend on a 2 week holiday visit. He was stung by a wasp and went in to anaphylactic shock. He was sent to the new hospital in Denia by the local doctor and despite the EH1C Card the hospital demanded the immediate payment of 149 Euros before any treatment was given. It would appear that one medicos emergency could be another's routine illness LOL


:welcome:

your friend should NOT have been charged at all - did he have his passport with him as well though? if not, that might have been it - they would want to see proof that the EHIC was his

as pensioners, if you were to become resident in Spain, you could use S1 forms to take advantage of the reciprocal agreement with the UK & your healthcare here would be paid by the UK - if you're here less than 90 days at a time your EHIC should be fine though

only residents can have SIP cards though


btw - unless you are resident you aren't supposed to be on the padrón


----------



## Jonners

Many thanks for that. Reassuring to know we are covered by the EH1C. My friend certainly had his passport but all to no avail. I suspect it is hard to be insistent about your entitlements when you are rolling on the floor in agony LOL

Interesting to note what you say about the padrón. Here is what the EYEONSPAIN website says. 

'Anybody who owns a property in Spain should register, whether they live here permanently or not.' 


All the other websites are either delightfully vague or say it is for residents. However they do not specifically mention long term non residents and property owners such as ourselves. What they all stress is the need to be on the padrón to interact with any government body.

On balance I think you are correct and we should not be on the padrón . However when renewing we have never been asked to prove our residency and of course it is in the interest of the Ayuntamiento to have us registered as this entitles them to more resources from central government. The more the merrier as they say.


----------



## snikpoh

Jonners said:


> Many thanks for that. Reassuring to know we are covered by the EH1C. My friend certainly had his passport but all to no avail. I suspect it is hard to be insistent about your entitlements when you are rolling on the floor in agony LOL
> 
> Interesting to note what you say about the padrón. Here is what the EYEONSPAIN website says.
> 
> 'Anybody who owns a property in Spain should register, whether they live here permanently or not.'
> 
> 
> All the other websites are either delightfully vague or say it is for residents. However they do not specifically mention long term non residents and property owners such as ourselves. What they all stress is the need to be on the padrón to interact with any government body.
> 
> On balance I think you are correct and we should not be on the padrón . However when renewing we have never been asked to prove our residency and of course it is in the interest of the Ayuntamiento to have us registered as this entitles them to more resources from central government. The more the merrier as they say.



Just this last year though, they removed thousands from the padron to clear up just this sort of mess! Many had to reapply because they had been wrongly removed.

Many, many, many people don't bother to de-register from the residencia of from the padron when they return to the UK and it leaves the town hall in a big mess - most of it is of our own making (and articles in places like eyeonspain who should know better!!!)


----------



## Sunhat

We went to the Social Security office, it helped a friend of ours works there. Our details were changed on the computer and we have the forms to take to the medical centre tomorrow to register with a Doctor there. He said if we have any problems get them to ring him at his office.
It will be lovely to save over 2,000€ a year on health cover.


----------



## Sunhat

We went to the medical center this morning- they wanted a copy of the empadriamento (excuse the spelling!) which we had left at the Social Security office the day before, so we went back to the Town Hall, the computers were ´down´ so had a coffee and went back 30 min later and got our forms. Back to the medical center and handed over all the forms and were told to go back on Friday for the paperwork.:clap2: The lady said all was ok. 
I will get all the moneysworth out of my last 2 months private cover before it runs out at the end of the year  
Many thanks original poster for letting us know the new situation :clap2::clap2: A gold star to you :cheer2

Sunhat


----------



## xabiaxica

Sunhat said:


> We went to the medical center this morning- they wanted a copy of the empadriamento (excuse the spelling!) which we had left at the Social Security office the day before, so we went back to the Town Hall, the computers were ´down´ so had a coffee and went back 30 min later and got our forms. Back to the medical center and handed over all the forms and were told to go back on Friday for the paperwork.:clap2: The lady said all was ok.
> I will get all the moneysworth out of my last 2 months private cover before it runs out at the end of the year
> Many thanks original poster for letting us know the new situation :clap2::clap2: A gold star to you :cheer2
> 
> Sunhat


yay!!

just a point - most private medical insurers want 2 months notice to cancel......so cancel now!!


----------



## Sunhat

Thanks for the reminder, we have until the end of the month!
Sunhat


----------



## Sunhat

Today we went back to the health center and were given our Dr´s name and told all was in order. On Monday we go and cancel the private insurance, it is due to be re-newed on 1st January. So the timing could not be better. 
I have an appointment on Wednesday, the man said to tell the Dr my medical history- it could be a long morning :blabla:


----------



## fergie

Sunhat said:


> Today we went back to the health center and were given our Dr´s name and told all was in order. On Monday we go and cancel the private insurance, it is due to be re-newed on 1st January. So the timing could not be better.
> I have an appointment on Wednesday, the man said to tell the Dr my medical history- it could be a long morning :blabla:


Hi Sunhat, great news, does your Dr. speak English or do you speak Spanish? I need to see my new Spanish doctor soon, and I think I will google translate my medical history and print it for ease of communication, it might be worth thinking about doing this if you are not sure about the new doctor.


----------



## mrypg9

fergie said:


> Hi Sunhat, great news, does your Dr. speak English or do you speak Spanish? I need to see my new Spanish doctor soon, and I think I will google translate my medical history and print it for ease of communication, it might be worth thinking about doing this if you are not sure about the new doctor.


I used to work as a translator/interpreter....Beware when using any internet-based translating tool!!

I've never translated medical stuff- I did mainly technical.commercial work - apart from once when I translated a German document for a friend but when working I kept at hand a list of errors produced by these 'translation tools'.

The best was the translation of 'hydraulic ram' as 'water buffalo'.


So make sure your doctor doesn't get the idea you want part of your anatomy removed or a sex-change or something


----------



## Sunhat

Between us our Spanish is not too bad- provided the Doctor does not talk too fast. I am going to give him a ´potted history´ of the past and the x-rays I have of my of my wonky leg and the blood test results - I will print out the last 18 months so he can see what is happening.

Sunhat


----------



## jimenato

Last week we went to the local social security office to get new EHIC cards - we had tried to get them online but failed - they don't tell you why you have failed. 

We told the chap this and also that although we have both worked for the last 10 years - neither of us did so any longer. He looked at our records on his computer, gave us a form and told us to come back today which we did. 

We now have healthcare as personas sin recursos. This is different from the 'everyone's entitled' scenario - why they did it this way rather than that I'm not sure.

As long as we get healthcare I'm not really bothered. 

One thing she said was that the healthcare entitlement is only valid in Andalucia - not the rest of Spain. Also we are not entitled to EHIC cards but she will send us a paper which will give us the same entitlements when abroad but for a maximum of 3 months in any one year.


----------



## Chris Sweetman

*Chris Sweetman*

Yesterday I asked about the change in the law re health. Today I went to our local social security office, where is was confirmed that health care for early retirees, who are residents (before April 2012) who fill in a Renta (Tax) and do not earn 100,00 euros a year (I wish) qualify for free healthcare, but still pay a portion of the cost of prescriptions. I have also been told that if you have paid the next quarterley payment you can apply at your local medical centre for a refund (it could take up to 3 months to get this back) as they have all the forms for this. Hope this helps anyone out there who like me has been paying 90 euros a month to the Valencian Health since this started in Nov 2009


----------



## xabiaxica

Chris Sweetman said:


> Yesterday I asked about the change in the law re health. Today I went to our local social security office, where is was confirmed that health care for early retirees, who are residents (before April 2012) who fill in a Renta (Tax) and do not earn 100,00 euros a year (I wish) qualify for free healthcare, but still pay a portion of the cost of prescriptions. I have also been told that if you have paid the next quarterley payment you can apply at your local medical centre for a refund (it could take up to 3 months to get this back) as they have all the forms for this. Hope this helps anyone out there who like me has been paying 90 euros a month to the Valencian Health since this started in Nov 2009


so you'll be getting the payment back


----------



## dee53

*good news on sip card*

Great news for anyone whose sip card was cancelled like mine was recently. I am currently receiving cancer treatment and my card was cancelled last month. My oncologist discovered this fact when he tried to arrange my next appointment with him. I made an appointment with the social security office in Torrevieja and had an interview with a very friendly and helpful young lady, she told me that I needed a legislative letter from UK and this could be faxed to her straight away because of the urgency in my case. I received my new sip card the next day. I was without any medical treatment and also had to pay for my drugs which worked out to over 130 euros. This was well worth paying and now I am fully covered for all my treatment for an indefinite period. I wouldnt like to go through this stress again but in the end Spanish health care is great! Just wanted to add that I have worked in spain for 11 years but have been sick for the last 3 years without claiming benefit. I am now classed as an sin recursos.


----------



## xabiaxica

dee53 said:


> Great news for anyone whose sip card was cancelled like mine was recently. I am currently receiving cancer treatment and my card was cancelled last month. My oncologist discovered this fact when he tried to arrange my next appointment with him. I made an appointment with the social security office in Torrevieja and had an interview with a very friendly and helpful young lady, she told me that I needed a legislative letter from UK and this could be faxed to her straight away because of the urgency in my case. I received my new sip card the next day. I was without any medical treatment and also had to pay for my drugs which worked out to over 130 euros. This was well worth paying and now I am fully covered for all my treatment for an indefinite period. I wouldnt like to go through this stress again but in the end Spanish health care is great! Just wanted to add that I have worked in spain for 11 years but have been sick for the last 3 years without claiming benefit. I am now classed as an sin recursos.


:welcome:

yes, the Spanish healthcare system IS great - & it's also great that you're getting the treatment you need, & that the system is working 

here's wishing you a speedy recovery!


----------



## Ger Dolan

We have paid our quarterly payment,are we entitled to get it back if we do get free health care


----------



## xabiaxica

Ger Dolan said:


> We have paid our quarterly payment,are we entitled to get it back if we do get free health care


yes - if you go to the health centre they will give you some claim forms

:welcome: btw


----------



## Ger Dolan

Hi Chrs,we got our SIP card yesterday,we also were paying €270 every quarter,my husband went to the bank and cancelled last payment,the Salud didnt know about any claim forms,so they can contact us and sort it out .


----------



## Ger Dolan

Thank you for the information,we got our SIP card xxx


----------



## pittstop

This is awesome news, my partner and I are semi-retired full time residents in Spain who were issued with padrons, NIE and Social Security numbers when we first got here, but obviously once the E111 ran out have been paying for health care. 

If all you really need is you passport, padron and social security number there seems no logical reason we cannot get SIP cards now. 

Our income from pensions and investments is well below the minimum and obviously work is non-existent at the moment, so falling under the minimum contribution level shouldn't be a problem. 

The original post makes no mention of proof of income. I'm assuming that would be subject to a check against your Cadastral and NIE against their banking and tax records, which thankfully we sorted out via the local Agencia Tributaria and have been filing on-line for nearly 4 years. 

Just one (more) question though.

- when you say "local health centre" I'm guessing you mean national health centre. Any ideas how I might locate mine? Is there a website?


----------



## xabiaxica

pittstop said:


> This is awesome news, my partner and I are semi-retired full time residents in Spain who were issued with padrons, NIE and Social Security numbers when we first got here, but obviously once the E111 ran out have been paying for health care.
> 
> If all you really need is you passport, padron and social security number there seems no logical reason we cannot get SIP cards now.
> 
> Our income from pensions and investments is well below the minimum and obviously work is non-existent at the moment, so falling under the minimum contribution level shouldn't be a problem.
> 
> The original post makes no mention of proof of income. I'm assuming that would be subject to a check against your Cadastral and NIE against their banking and tax records, which thankfully we sorted out via the local Agencia Tributaria and have been filing on-line for nearly 4 years.
> 
> Just one (more) question though.
> 
> - when you say "local health centre" I'm guessing you mean national health centre. Any ideas how I might locate mine? Is there a website?


you go to the 'centro de salud' - where the doctors are


----------



## pittstop

xabiachica said:


> you go to the 'centro de salud' - where the doctors are


the reason I ask is because there is a private medical centre and a Red Cross centre very close to where I live and I'm sure neither would be Government sponsored.


----------



## xabiaxica

pittstop said:


> the reason I ask is because there is a private medical centre and a Red Cross centre very close to where I live and I'm sure neither would be Government sponsored.


where did you go when yu were still covered under your E-whatever?

that would have been the state medical centre, surely?


----------



## pittstop

xabiachica said:


> where did you go when yu were still covered under your E-whatever?
> 
> that would have been the state medical centre, surely?


No where, I've not been ill.


----------



## xabiaxica

pittstop said:


> No where, I've not been ill.


ah... that's lucky 

here in the Valencia region we have www.san.gva.es - that has a link listing the centros de salud


I don't know where you are, but I should imagine your region has something similar


----------



## montgorhino

Hi all, My Wife and I have just been re assessed and have been given new SIP cards. We are not retiring age, we do not pay into the system. The most important document you need is a letter from Works and Pensions in Newcastle stating that you are not covered for treatment in the UK. This letter will also automatically be given to you in Spanish too. You need this, your Passport,your Green Residency form, up to date Padron (now runs out after 3 months for official use) NIE, your Marriage Certificate if applicable (this may need to be officially translated into Spanish although we did not need to do this)Form TA1 download from Spanish Gov site or collect from local Seguridad Social Office (we didnt need this either but take it anyway). Make an appointment, it makes life easier. Thats it, the key to it all is the letter from Newcastle...it takes time to get, 7 months for me, but well worth it ...Good luck.


----------



## xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxenjoylife

Hi,
did you go with this documents to the Centro de salud ?


----------



## gus-lopez

enjoylife said:


> Hi,
> did you go with this documents to the Centro de salud ?


No you make an appointment at the INEM/SEPE office where they will put you on the system & give you a form stating that you have the right to health care which you then take to the Centro de salud + your residencia ,where they will sign you on to the system. It is all in earlier posts on this thread.


----------



## montgorhino

enjoylife said:


> Hi,
> did you go with this documents to the Centro de salud ?


Hi,we live in Javea.....We went to the Seguridad Social, Paseo saladar 41, Denia with all the required documents. The first thing they asked " Do you have the confirmation from DWP Newcastle, this we had. From that point she issued the required form duly stamped and signed....Documento Acreditativo del Derecho a Asistencia Sanitaria. 
Then we went directly to The Centro de Salud in Javea.
They issued us with new SIP cards
Good luck


----------



## montgorhino

enjoylife said:


> Hi,
> did you go with this documents to the Centro de salud ?


I just realised you are from Austria, your Country will have a similar form stating that you are not entitled to treatment in Austria as you are now Resident in Spain


----------



## xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxenjoylife

No you make an appointment at the INEM/SEPE office where they will put you on the system & give you a form stating that you have the right to health care which you then take to the Centro de salud + your residencia ,where they will sign you on to the system. It is all in earlier posts on this thread.


Actually I have been at the INEM office and the told me to go to Seguridad
Social......which they ask me to bring also a certificate from the Tax office in
in my country,that I have no taxes to pay in my country....which here at the 
forum somebody said it is illegal to ask for that....


----------



## Naythan

_This is just my friend's experiences, I hope you do better._
Excuse me, but here is a heads up, there are no longer translators at hospitals or police stations. I have had totally legit/registered expat friends denied assistance(rudely told to p.ss off after waiting an hour in line) due to their lack of language skills. The Andaluz speaking clerk refused to listen to tourist Castellano. You may be registered, but you will never be equal! When the spending cuts get worse, expat benefits will be the first thing to be cut.


----------



## xabiaxica

Naythan said:


> _This is just my friend's experiences, I hope you do better._
> Excuse me, but here is a heads up, there are no longer translators at hospitals or police stations. I have had totally legit/registered expat friends denied assistance(rudely told to p.ss off after waiting an hour in line) due to their lack of language skills. The Andaluz speaking clerk refused to listen to tourist Castellano. You may be registered, but you will never be equal! When the spending cuts get worse, expat benefits will be the first thing to be cut.


we have translators at our hospital...


----------



## xabiaxica

enjoylife said:


> No you make an appointment at the INEM/SEPE office where they will put you on the system & give you a form stating that you have the right to health care which you then take to the Centro de salud + your residencia ,where they will sign you on to the system. It is all in earlier posts on this thread.
> 
> 
> Actually I have been at the INEM office and the told me to go to Seguridad
> Social......which they ask me to bring also a certificate from the Tax office in
> in my country,that I have no taxes to pay in my country....which here at the
> forum somebody said it is illegal to ask for that....


yes, it's the INSS office you need to go to

essentially they need you to prove that were legally & fiscally resident in Spain before they made the rule changes - that was in April this year, although they weren't actually implemented until 1st September

if you have the resident certificate from before April that's halfway there - if you've been doing tax returns here you shouldn't need anything else

if you haven't been doing the tax returns then you need something to prove that you have no right to healthcare in your country of birth because you don't live there or have income/tax there

the UK is supplying British citizens with proof in the form of an official 'Legislation Letter.


----------



## Manin_bcn

I have been living in spain for over three years now. Fully legal. NIE, SS, Residencia. I am working (but no contract - some English schools typically do this) but, I receive a UK NHS pension every month, for the rest of my days (I retired early from the pension scheme). Can I still register to get my health card here? I had one in Barcelona where I lived previously but the new changes weren´t in effect, then.


----------



## gus-lopez

xabiachica said:


> yes, it's the INSS office you need to go to
> 
> essentially they need you to prove that were legally & fiscally resident in Spain before they made the rule changes - that was in April this year, although they weren't actually implemented until 1st September
> 
> if you have the resident certificate from before April that's halfway there - if you've been doing tax returns here you shouldn't need anything else
> 
> if you haven't been doing the tax returns then you need something to prove that you have no right to healthcare in your country of birth because you don't live there or have income/tax there
> 
> the UK is supplying British citizens with proof in the form of an official 'Legislation Letter.


Here the INSS ( social security office known here as 'the red one ') office issues social security numbers . If you have any other queries/business you have to go to the INEM office ( known as ' the green one ' ). Anything to do with above, or pensions, sign on /off paying soc. sec ; etc; etc.


----------



## xabiaxica

gus-lopez said:


> Here the INSS ( social security office known here as 'the red one ') office issues social security numbers . If you have any other queries/business you have to go to the INEM office ( known as ' the green one ' ). Anything to do with above, or pensions, sign on /off paying soc. sec ; etc; etc.


yes.... they are going to get a social security number :confused2:


----------



## xabiaxica

Manin_bcn said:


> I have been living in spain for over three years now. Fully legal. NIE, SS, Residencia. I am working (but no contract - some English schools typically do this) but, I receive a UK NHS pension every month, for the rest of my days (I retired early from the pension scheme). Can I still register to get my health card here? I had one in Barcelona where I lived previously but the new changes weren´t in effect, then.


the key seems to be the resident certificate, the TA1 & now in some cases the Legislation Letter - so I don't see why you'd have a problem


----------



## snikpoh

xabiachica said:


> you're right, it does
> 
> essentially the changes mean that those who were registered properly & doing tax returns before 24th April this year - ie, with all their paperwork in order - should now be able to get free state healthcare where previously they couldn't
> 
> conversely - a lot of people who somehow managed to obtain tarjetas sanitarias & yet _didn't _have all their paperwork in order, are finding that their cards are being cancelled.............
> 
> it's part of the same series of law changes which mean that new residents (after 24th April on paper, but certainly since September) have to have income & healthcare provision _already in place _before they can register



A quick update ...

Even those people who have been here for many years, have been registered on the padron, have their residencias and have been making tax returns are having their SIP cards cancelled!

Don't know why they were cancelled yet as they are all on strike today. I will accompany them to the SS offices tomorrow and see if they can shed light on why children's cards (as well as their own) are being cancelled even when all their paperwork is in order!


Here we go again .....:boxing:


----------



## xabiaxica

snikpoh said:


> A quick update ...
> 
> Even those people who have been here for many years, have been registered on the padron, have their residencias and have been making tax returns are having their SIP cards cancelled!
> 
> Don't know why they were cancelled yet as they are all on strike today. I will accompany them to the SS offices tomorrow and see if they can shed light on why children's cards (as well as their own) are being cancelled even when all their paperwork is in order!
> 
> 
> Here we go again .....:boxing:


quite a lot have been cancelled in error - I've advised various local people on this - as long as they can prove that they have everything paperwork-wise they re-activate the cards


----------



## snikpoh

xabiachica said:


> quite a lot have been cancelled in error - I've advised various local people on this - as long as they can prove that they have everything paperwork-wise they re-activate the cards


OK. We were able to book an appointment today (nobody around here seems to be on strike).

It was explained to us that ALL SIP cards have had to be cancelled for foreigners as a new department is now dealing with them (at least in the Valencia/Alicante region).

Everyone has now to re-apply with either their S1 (if pensioners) or a ton of paperwork if not. Luckily the people we were helping had everything;

Passports for parents and children
Birth cirtificates for all
Marriage certificate
Padron for all
Residencias for all
Letter from DWP (no cover via UK) - one per person including children!
Tax returns (proving income of less than 100k)

All had to be photocopied (twice). A form was filled in. This all then gets sent to Valencia where they sit on it for a while then, if you're lucky, they write back explaining their decision. This can take a while apparently!

I am told that there is NO guarantee that one will get SIP cards! I mentioned the new law and was told that things were tough and not to expect too much.

What annoyed our friends was that they had done all of this just a year ago but, because it was a new department handling it now, it all had to be done again - the two departments apparently don't (won't) communicate!

I was also told that they may have to re-apply for new letters from DWP as the last ones might be 'too old'!


... what an absolute farce. I good way to waste governmental money!!!!


Once again, even though I hear of success stories, it depends where you are as to what you are told!


----------



## xabiaxica

snikpoh said:


> OK. We were able to book an appointment today (nobody around here seems to be on strike).
> 
> It was explained to us that ALL SIP cards have had to be cancelled for foreigners as a new department is now dealing with them (at least in the Valencia/Alicante region).
> 
> Everyone has now to re-apply with either their S1 (if pensioners) or a ton of paperwork if not. Luckily the people we were helping had everything;
> 
> Passports for parents and children
> Birth cirtificates for all
> Marriage certificate
> Padron for all
> Residencias for all
> Letter from DWP (no cover via UK) - one per person including children!
> Tax returns (proving income of less than 100k)
> 
> All had to be photocopied (twice). A form was filled in. This all then gets sent to Valencia where they sit on it for a while then, if you're lucky, they write back explaining their decision. This can take a while apparently!
> 
> I am told that there is NO guarantee that one will get SIP cards! I mentioned the new law and was told that things were tough and not to expect too much.
> 
> What annoyed our friends was that they had done all of this just a year ago but, because it was a new department handling it now, it all had to be done again - the two departments apparently don't (won't) communicate!
> 
> I was also told that they may have to re-apply for new letters from DWP as the last ones might be 'too old'!
> 
> 
> ... what an absolute farce. I good way to waste governmental money!!!!
> 
> 
> Once again, even though I hear of success stories, it depends where you are as to what you are told!


I'm pretty sure ours haven't been cancelled (well they hadn't last week, anyway) - maybe it's because I'm autónomo...


useful info though - thanks


----------



## chica de cocentaina

our friend's parents, one in late 70's and one in his 80's haven't had their SIP cancelled,,,in fact he is due to go back to the doctors this morning for a blood test...so it hasn't happened here either


----------



## GallineraGirl

chica de cocentaina said:


> our friend's parents, one in late 70's and one in his 80's haven't had their SIP cancelled,,,in fact he is due to go back to the doctors this morning for a blood test...so it hasn't happened here either


Nor to us. We were at Denia Hospital on Tuesday.


----------



## Peter Mitry

This is good news for us. My wife and I are British pensioners who have been living and working in Egypt for four years where health care, although cheap, has to be paid for. We are in the process of moving back to the Almeria area of Spain this month (we were resident in Costa del Sol from 97 - 2009). We had read conflicting reports about whether healthcare was free but from our research we decided that it was. My wife had a cancer removed in March so the reason for coming back is the aftercare; we also have two grandchildren living with us, both of whom were born in Spain, and the schooling in Spain is way superior to Egypt. We are all bi-lingual.


----------



## fergie

Peter Mitry said:


> This is good news for us. My wife and I are British pensioners who have been living and working in Egypt for four years where health care, although cheap, has to be paid for. We are in the process of moving back to the Almeria area of Spain this month (we were resident in Costa del Sol from 97 - 2009). We had read conflicting reports about whether healthcare was free but from our research we decided that it was. My wife had a cancer removed in March so the reason for coming back is the aftercare; we also have two grandchildren living with us, both of whom were born in Spain, and the schooling in Spain is way superior to Egypt. We are all bi-lingual.


I'm also a pensioner, but we pay 10% of the cost of medication, which is not bad at all, the 10% is worked out, and printed on the actual prescription we get from the Doctors.
When I received my pension, it did advise on the letter to have private medical insurance as well, which we have already.


----------



## xabiaxica

Peter Mitry said:


> This is good news for us. My wife and I are British pensioners who have been living and working in Egypt for four years where health care, although cheap, has to be paid for. We are in the process of moving back to the Almeria area of Spain this month (we were resident in Costa del Sol from 97 - 2009). We had read conflicting reports about whether healthcare was free but from our research we decided that it was. My wife had a cancer removed in March so the reason for coming back is the aftercare; we also have two grandchildren living with us, both of whom were born in Spain, and the schooling in Spain is way superior to Egypt. We are all bi-lingual.


yes, if you are in receipt of state pensions from the UK you can access the state healthcare in Spain


----------



## xabiaxica

fergie said:


> I'm also a pensioner, but we pay 10% of the cost of medication, which is not bad at all, the 10% is worked out, and printed on the actual prescription we get from the Doctors.
> When I received my pension, it did advise on the letter to have private medical insurance as well, which we have already.


why would they advise you to have private health insurance??

you really don't need it...


----------



## fergie

xabiachica said:


> why would they advise you to have private health insurance??
> 
> you really don't need it...


I really don't know the answer to that one, maybe they are not sure what the Spanish government will do in the future! :confused2:


----------



## xabiaxica

fergie said:


> I really don't know the answer to that one, maybe they are not sure what the Spanish government will do in the future! :confused2:


I guess - but you'd soon be able to take out insurance if & when you needed it - why pay for something you don't need in the meantime?


----------



## chica de cocentaina

xabiachica said:


> I guess - but you'd soon be able to take out insurance if & when you needed it - why pay for something you don't need in the meantime?



ahh but any ailment you may have got under government health cover would become a pre-existing condition as far insurance companies are concerned, and they wouldn't cover that/those ailments!


----------



## extranjero

Why aren't ex pat pensioners asked to prove they are tax resident in Spain, before being given free healthcare? After all, they are given the same healthcare as any Spanish national, who is obviously on the tax system. Imagine the rush for FD9 forms, and what's more it'll help the Spanish economy.


----------



## xabiaxica

extranjero said:


> Why aren't ex pat pensioners asked to prove they are tax resident in Spain, before being given free healthcare? After all, they are given the same healthcare as any Spanish national, who is obviously on the tax system. Imagine the rush for FD9 forms, and what's more it'll help the Spanish economy.


 they should be doing tax returns of course - but with the S1 the UK is paying for the healthcare, so it's not exactly free


----------



## xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxenjoylife

well at the end I received today the paper that I get access
to the healthcare......I think for the tarjeta it takes some weeks
to arrive
can somebody tell me if the tarjeta is valid for all the provinces
or only the province it was issued ?

thanks to all for this excellent infos here at the forum


----------



## xabiaxica

enjoylife said:


> well at the end I received today the paper that I get access
> to the healthcare......I think for the tarjeta it takes some weeks
> to arrive
> can somebody tell me if the tarjeta is valid for all the provinces
> or only the province it was issued ?
> 
> thanks to all for this excellent infos here at the forum


only where it's issued - but if you're in a different one on holiday you can still get treatment - you have to 'register' as _desplazado _& they bill where you live.............


----------



## jimenato

Actually I'm pretty sure it's valid for an Autonomous Region (e.g.Andalucia) rather than Province (e.g. Cadiz).


----------



## xabiaxica

jimenato said:


> Actually I'm pretty sure it's valid for an Autonomous Region (e.g.Andalucia) rather than Province (e.g. Cadiz).


you'd be right


----------



## British Bulldog

*Re:- sip card/not so straight forward!*

Hi there,

Let me i am afraid throw a spanner in the works slightly here re-SIP CARD good news,not intentionally or with malice just by informing!,but as a matter of reality and fact!,all the happiness over spain granting seemingly to everyone of expats of free SIP cards,it does not always go to plan or happen to be this easy or automatic or even happen!.

My own experience today plus this afternoon of finding many more ex-pats people enduring the same problem and local expat papers.

My experience:-Having the correct TA1 form filled in and copies of the required documents gone early morning to the social security office to get my social security number(so far no problems) it was quickly done and efficient,nice guy and even had a coffee with him afterwards and a chat.

I then full of confidence and feeling this was going well especially as some friends of mine pre-retired ex-pats i know had successfully this week got their temporary health SIP cards no problem.
I went to the same nearby health centre to present the SS form with my social security number on it and again copies documents required resedentia (padron) .N.I.E ect,i want to make it clear i have done this before years ago until they withdrew SIP cards,so i am not a newbie to this procedure only the getting of a social security number was new here.
The woman asked me if i had an EHIC card?,i said no,she said do you live in spain?,well yes of course look at the forms (idiot!) OF COURSE),padron,NIE,copy resedentia card,i have lived in spain 5 years and pay my taxes yearly,so she made a call to valencia and then said that my SS and form ect number did not give me the right to access spanish health care in spain,i said why and she i do not know,just not entitled???,well what do i do now?,so she said i had to go to the INSS social security office,so i did,and there i explained the situation and was told that i had to get a CERTIFICATE letter from the DHSS in the UK saying that i do not have or receive health cover in the uk and and am not entitled to it and that they have no interest in health cover for me uk!.,once i have this certificate i can submit again?.

So not such fantastic news? er but not for me anyway!, but for those who have had plain sailing in getting their SIP card,i am pleased for them,BUT people need to know that it does not always work to plan getting their SIP card and people ex-pats especially should be aware of that fact.

Hopefully also the spanish authorities don't do the dirty later on in the future and remove peoples entitlement to SIP cards and health treatment again like they have done before in the valencia area,i like many others we had sip cards for 2 years+ then it all stopped!!,so were forced to take out private healthcare,even though we paid into uk system for 40 years continuosly,uk did not want to know us or help,pre-retirees.

In my area they withdrew a womans previous on-going treatment for cancer medicine just like that morrocan woman cancelled her SIP card too,and left her in blinding agony,she collapsed outside the ajuntamiento bleeding all over the place,shame on spain to let this happen in 2012.

bulldog


----------



## gus-lopez

I think most people on here had to get the ' letter of legislation' from Newcastle.


----------



## xabiaxica

gus-lopez said:


> I think most people on here had to get the ' letter of legislation' from Newcastle.


you're right, a lot did have to get it

it's simple enough, just contact the DWP & they send it if you qualify for it

apparently the wait time atm is about a month though, & yes British Bulldog, when it arrives just go back to the centro de salud with everything & ask again


I have advised & spoken to lots of people about this in the past few weeks - I have come across some who have had their cards cancelled in error, but they have been re-instated reasonably simply

I have also come across some who for years have had use of the healthcare system who shouldn't have - somehow they got hold of cards at some point & are now up in arms because they have been cancelled

some of these people have never registered, done tax returns, have been working 'on the black' for years - some don't even live here & never have - who has been paying for their healthcare?


----------



## snikpoh

You may also be asked to get this 'legislation letter' for any children!

However, the UK will say that it's not possible as children do not have SS numbers and that as dependants, they don't need the letter, and Spain will say that you must get them for everyone - including children!


Upon advice from this forum, I have just reapplied for SIP cards for my family. Initially, like Bulldog, I was told that I was not entitled to healthcare in Spain (nor my children!). I mentioned the recent change in law and so we eventually filled in a number of forms. I was told that it would take at least 6 weeks to find out if I would be "successful"!


----------



## xabiaxica

snikpoh said:


> You may also be asked to get this 'legislation letter' for any children!
> 
> However, the UK will say that it's not possible as children do not have SS numbers and that as dependants, they don't need the letter, and Spain will say that you must get them for everyone - including children!
> 
> 
> Upon advice from this forum, I have just reapplied for SIP cards for my family. Initially, like Bulldog, I was told that I was not entitled to healthcare in Spain (nor my children!). I mentioned the recent change in law and so we eventually filled in a number of forms. I was told that it would take at least 6 weeks to find out if I would be "successful"!


were you issued with 'temporary' cards?

I have heard of some people who have been

I suspect that the number of people applying has overwhelmed them somewhat.....

let us know what happens


----------



## British Bulldog

*re-sip card refused*



xabiachica said:


> you're right, a lot did have to get it
> 
> it's simple enough, just contact the DWP & they send it if you qualify for it
> 
> apparently the wait time atm is about a month though, & yes British Bulldog, when it arrives just go back to the centro de salud with everything & ask again
> 
> 
> I have advised & spoken to lots of people about this in the past few weeks - I have come across some who have had their cards cancelled in error, but they have been re-instated reasonably simply
> 
> I have also come across some who for years have had use of the healthcare system who shouldn't have - somehow they got hold of cards at some point & are now up in arms because they have been cancelled
> 
> some of these people have never registered, done tax returns, have been working 'on the black' for years - some don't even live here & never have - who has been paying for their healthcare?


Thanks for the help with this posting,i will contact DWP in uk and ask for the letter or certificate whatever.

bulldog


----------



## British Bulldog

*re-sip card*



snikpoh said:


> You may also be asked to get this 'legislation letter' for any children!
> 
> However, the UK will say that it's not possible as children do not have SS numbers and that as dependants, they don't need the letter, and Spain will say that you must get them for everyone - including children!
> 
> 
> Upon advice from this forum, I have just reapplied for SIP cards for my family. Initially, like Bulldog, I was told that I was not entitled to healthcare in Spain (nor my children!). I mentioned the recent change in law and so we eventually filled in a number of forms. I was told that it would take at least 6 weeks to find out if I would be "successful"!



Hi,

Can you tell me did you ask for a letter/certificate from the DWP in the UK?,if so what exactly did you ask for please?.
When i went to the INXX SOCIAL SECURITY OFFICE the woman there gave me some forms with 7 pages at the reception desk called PRESTACION DE ASISTENCIAS SANITARIA(instrucciones para cumplimentar la solicitud),were these the same forms you were given?,did youo e-mail DWP Or phone?,these forms did you fill in and hand back to the INXX office?.:confused2:

regards

bulldog


----------



## British Bulldog

snikpoh said:


> You may also be asked to get this 'legislation letter' for any children!
> 
> However, the UK will say that it's not possible as children do not have SS numbers and that as dependants, they don't need the letter, and Spain will say that you must get them for everyone - including children!
> 
> 
> Upon advice from this forum, I have just reapplied for SIP cards for my family. Initially, like Bulldog, I was told that I was not entitled to healthcare in Spain (nor my children!). I mentioned the recent change in law and so we eventually filled in a number of forms. I was told that it would take at least 6 weeks to find out if I would be "successful"!



Hi,

Can you tell me did you ask for a letter/certificate from the DWP in the UK?,if so what exactly did you ask for please?.
When i went to the INXX SOCIAL SECURITY OFFICE the woman there gave me some forms with 7 pages at the reception desk called PRESTACION DE ASISTENCIAS SANITARIA(instrucciones para cumplimentar la solicitud),were these the same forms you were given?,did youo e-mail DWP Or phone?,these forms did you fill in and hand back to the INXX office?.

regards

bulldog


----------



## British Bulldog

*re-sip card probs*



xabiachica said:


> you're right, a lot did have to get it
> 
> it's simple enough, just contact the DWP & they send it if you qualify for it
> 
> apparently the wait time atm is about a month though, & yes British Bulldog, when it arrives just go back to the centro de salud with everything & ask again
> 
> 
> I have advised & spoken to lots of people about this in the past few weeks - I have come across some who have had their cards cancelled in error, but they have been re-instated reasonably simply
> 
> I have also come across some who for years have had use of the healthcare system who shouldn't have - somehow they got hold of cards at some point & are now up in arms because they have been cancelled
> 
> some of these people have never registered, done tax returns, have been working 'on the black' for years - some don't even live here & never have - who has been paying for their healthcare?


Thanks for the help and advice

bulldog


----------



## snikpoh

xabiachica said:


> were you issued with 'temporary' cards?
> 
> I have heard of some people who have been
> 
> I suspect that the number of people applying has overwhelmed them somewhat.....
> 
> let us know what happens



No, no temporary cards.

We were told that if ANY of us needed care, we would have to pay for it until our decision (not our cards) came through.


----------



## snikpoh

British Bulldog said:


> Hi,
> 
> Can you tell me did you ask for a letter/certificate from the DWP in the UK?,if so what exactly did you ask for please?.
> When i went to the INXX SOCIAL SECURITY OFFICE the woman there gave me some forms with 7 pages at the reception desk called PRESTACION DE ASISTENCIAS SANITARIA(instrucciones para cumplimentar la solicitud),were these the same forms you were given?,did youo e-mail DWP Or phone?,these forms did you fill in and hand back to the INXX office?.:confused2:
> 
> regards
> 
> bulldog


Yes, these are the same forms that we had to fill in. 

We already had our legislation letters as we have been 'round this loop before. Remember, the Spanish INSISTED that we had one for each of us - including the children. In the end I had to get the consulate involved so that our children could be seen to have to cover in the UK as well!

We just asked for the 'legislation letter'.


----------



## British Bulldog

*r-SIPO CARDS TEMPORARY*



snikpoh said:


> No, no temporary cards.
> 
> We were told that if ANY of us needed care, we would have to pay for it until our decision (not our cards) came through.


Some expats living near me pre-retiress got their SIP cards during last weeek temporary no problems?,they were told later on 6 week time approx they would get the plastic SIP cards sent out,they did not have to apply to DWP strange they do not work?:confused2:

bulldog


----------



## xabiaxica

British Bulldog said:


> Some expats living near me pre-retiress got their SIP cards during last weeek temporary no problems?,they were told later on 6 week time approx they would get the plastic SIP cards sent out,they did not have to apply to DWP strange they do not work?:confused2:
> 
> bulldog


& that's how it is supposed to work - although some health centres are asking for the Legislation Letter - maybe it's a 'belt & braces' approach?

some people who hadn't been doing tax returns have also been able to get cards with their green resident certs & the Legislation Letter

where snikpoh lives they do seem to be particularly 'difficult'


----------



## British Bulldog

*Re-forms*



snikpoh said:


> Yes, these are the same forms that we had to fill in.
> 
> We already had our legislation letters as we have been 'round this loop before. Remember, the Spanish INSISTED that we had one for each of us - including the children. In the end I had to get the consulate involved so that our children could be seen to have to cover in the UK as well!
> 
> We just asked for the 'legislation letter'.


Thanks when the forms are completed return them back to INXX security office presumably? and before contacting DWP or after receiving the legislation letter?

bulldog


----------



## xabiaxica

British Bulldog said:


> Thanks when the forms are completed return them back to INXX security office presumably? and before contacting DWP or after receiving the legislation letter?
> 
> bulldog


you mean the INSS don't you?

phone the DWP on Monday for the Legislation Letter

when that arrives apply again - take everything all at the same time


----------



## British Bulldog

xabiachica said:


> & that's how it is supposed to work - although some health centres are asking for the Legislation Letter - maybe it's a 'belt & braces' approach?
> 
> some people who hadn't been doing tax returns have also been able to get cards with their green resident certs & the Legislation Letter
> 
> where snikpoh lives they do seem to be particularly 'difficult'


I See, she did ask me strangely if i had an EHIC card which i don't now but did have when first moved here because they asked for that from me and i got a sip card temporary for 2 years then it stopped,maybe they have on record that i am still registered in the uk?

bulldog


----------



## British Bulldog

xabiachica said:


> you mean the INSS don't you?
> 
> phone the DWP on Monday for the Legislation Letter
> 
> when that arrives apply again - take everything all at the same time


Yes the INSS did i say differntly oops,i;ll phone them monday thankyou lots.

bulldog:clap2:


----------



## gus-lopez

British Bulldog said:


> Yes the INSS did i say differntly oops,i;ll phone them monday thankyou lots.
> 
> bulldog:clap2:


The phone number & what to ask for is in the early part of this thread.


----------



## British Bulldog

gus-lopez said:


> The phone number & what to ask for is in the early part of this thread.


Thanks Gus

bulldog


----------



## CJeff

My husband needs to have his 'permanent' SIP card re-activated - it has recently been cancelled. I have been reading this thread with interest. Is there anyone you can recommend to assist us with this as our Spanish isn't too good. Our local INSS office is Orihuela, but is it possible to go to INSS in Torrevieja?


----------



## bernadettemeechan

chica de cocentaina said:


> This is something very new, and is of interest to all of us who are legal and registered for tax purposes in Spain. Do not believe all the negative coverage in the local English press about the new healthcare rules in Spain, if you are legally registered as a fiscal resident of Spain, you are now entitled to a social security number and SIP card (providing your income is less than 100k a year).
> 
> The new law gives EU residents in Spain (regardless of age) the same rights as Spanish citizens. To prove the point my husband and I downloaded Form TA1 from the government website, filled it in and presented it along with the necessary paperwork to our local TGSS office. We walked out 15 minutes later with a Spanish social security number.
> 
> We went straight to the local health centre, handed them the TGSS form and a copy of our up to date padron and passport, and were immediately issued with a provisional SIP card, with the promise that the permanent plastic version would be ready for collection before Christmas.
> We often wondered why we had bothered to do everything legally when we moved to Spain in 2008, as no-one else seemed to bother, now it seems we are getting the reward for doing everything by the book.
> By the way,we retired early, and still have several years to go before we reach state pension age, so this change in the law is an incredible benefit to us. We pay for private health care, but there are numerous exclusions on the policy due to pre-existing conditions, so potentially we could have faced serious problems without state health cover.My husband's company pension was taxed in the UK, but now we are fiscally resident in Spain we fall below the tax threshold, so for us it's better in more ways than one to be legal.


If anyone could help I would be extremely grateful ... 

2 months pregnant, when I first applied for my SIP card in Communidad Valenciana I was working full tme, contracted and all paperwork in order. Was given one provisionally which never turned out to be a full time plastic card. I have had the run around and now I am not workign with baby on the way. I now have had my provisional sip card taken from me too. I have 2 small widows pensions that are transferred here and I was informed that I could leave them in the UK without any difficulty. I have full residency here, pay my taxes, changed my bank accounts and have my residency green card. 

What do I do to have to get a proper sip card here?????

I have my EHIC card which they have given me a semi sip card which I have to present with my passport, EHIC, NIE and other papers every time I need to go to the doctor, however, I am terrified as I am diabetic, baby on the way that I will be left with nothing should the british government not pay for what I need as I am, afterall, legally resident in spain, although as I said I have two small pensions that are paid in Britain ... 

Anyone ... I am about to climb the walls and seriously thinking of returning back to Scotland ... this isn't a way of life as I have tried in all my powers to do everything correctly with my paperwork both in the UK and here in Spain ... 

thank you in advance ... Bernadette


----------



## xabiaxica

bernadettemeechan said:


> If anyone could help I would be extremely grateful ...
> 
> 2 months pregnant, when I first applied for my SIP card in Communidad Valenciana I was working full tme, contracted and all paperwork in order. Was given one provisionally which never turned out to be a full time plastic card. I have had the run around and now I am not workign with baby on the way. I now have had my provisional sip card taken from me too. I have 2 small widows pensions that are transferred here and I was informed that I could leave them in the UK without any difficulty. I have full residency here, pay my taxes, changed my bank accounts and have my residency green card.
> 
> What do I do to have to get a proper sip card here?????
> 
> I have my EHIC card which they have given me a semi sip card which I have to present with my passport, EHIC, NIE and other papers every time I need to go to the doctor, however, I am terrified as I am diabetic, baby on the way that I will be left with nothing should the british government not pay for what I need as I am, afterall, legally resident in spain, although as I said I have two small pensions that are paid in Britain ...
> 
> Anyone ... I am about to climb the walls and seriously thinking of returning back to Scotland ... this isn't a way of life as I have tried in all my powers to do everything correctly with my paperwork both in the UK and here in Spain ...
> 
> thank you in advance ... Bernadette


:welcome:

sounds complicated....

but it shouldn't be

just one question

were you registered as resident & working, therefore paying tax before 24 April 2012?

if so, then you are entitled to healthcare here - that's a fact

have you taken your resident cert, your passport & your vida laboral to the INSS?

if that isn't getting you anywhere then contact the DWP in Newcastle & ask for the 'Legislation Letter' - that usually works if all else fails


----------



## fyfin

:confused2:


chica de cocentaina said:


> This is something very new, and is of interest to all of us who are legal and registered for tax purposes in Spain. Do not believe all the negative coverage in the local English press about the new healthcare rules in Spain, if you are legally registered as a fiscal resident of Spain, you are now entitled to a social security number and SIP card (providing your income is less than 100k a year).
> 
> The new law gives EU residents in Spain (regardless of age) the same rights as Spanish citizens. To prove the point my husband and I downloaded Form TA1 from the government website, filled it in and presented it along with the necessary paperwork to our local TGSS office. We walked out 15 minutes later with a Spanish social security number.
> 
> We went straight to the local health centre, handed them the TGSS form and a copy of our up to date padron and passport, and were immediately issued with a provisional SIP card, with the promise that the permanent plastic version would be ready for collection before Christmas.
> We often wondered why we had bothered to do everything legally when we moved to Spain in 2008, as no-one else seemed to bother, now it seems we are getting the reward for doing everything by the book.
> By the way,we retired early, and still have several years to go before we reach state pension age, so this change in the law is an incredible benefit to us. We pay for private health care, but there are numerous exclusions on the policy due to pre-existing conditions, so potentially we could have faced serious problems without state health cover.My husband's company pension was taxed in the UK, but now we are fiscally resident in Spain we fall below the tax threshold, so for us it's better in more ways than one to be legal.


We also wanted to do everything legally, but we only moved here permanently (Turre, Almeria) in Oct 2012 having taken early retirement. Obtaining S1 forms from Newcastle was remarkedly easy, just a phone call and they were posted to our UK address inside 2 weeks. 

Signing on the Padron was also straightforward at the Ayuntamiento, and obviously we already had our NIE numbers from when we purchased the apartment at the end of 2010.

Of course we had also completed our non resident tax returns as soon as we were legally obliged to.

The next step was to go to the Oficina de Extranjeros to be registered as you are obliged to, if you remain in Spain more than 90 days. I won't go into detail on this thread but it took a bit longer than we expected - all to do with proving income and acceptable forms of evidence translated etc etc.

Anyway as of last Friday we have 2 little credit card size green pieces of cardboard, plastic coated on one side (in our case the old guy at the office stuck the cards in the wrong way so the plastic coating is on the back :confused2. So we are officially Spanish residents.

The last hurdle will be registering on The Spanish Healthcare system and this is why this thread is so interesting, but I am not entirely certain what I need to do.

I believe that as I have S1 forms for myself and my wife and now have our little green residency certs, I should be able to present ourselves at the Huercal Overa 
INSS office (although the OP mentioned TGSS so slightly confused). I assume the objective there is to obtain a Social Security number and I suspect I will need to complete TA1 forms which I have already printed out. 
I assume we tick box "asignacion numero de seguridad social". I'm not sure exactly which documents to take but I will take everything that might be relevant including 2 copies of each, the only thing is whether I need to say on the form which documents we are bringing.

If we are successful I assume we then take everything to the local health centre and there is one in the town so hopefully that part will be easy, and I assume if we're lucky we will have a temporary SIP card, or as apparently only referred to as "Tarjeta Sanitaria" in Andalucia. I also wonder will there be an expiry date as our S1 forms only run until 2014 and I will not be a pensioner until 2016.


----------



## VFR

bernadettemeechan said:


> If anyone could help I would be extremely grateful ...
> 
> 2 months pregnant, when I first applied for my SIP card in Communidad Valenciana I was working full tme, contracted and all paperwork in order. Was given one provisionally which never turned out to be a full time plastic card. I have had the run around and now I am not workign with baby on the way. I now have had my provisional sip card taken from me too. I have 2 small widows pensions that are transferred here and I was informed that I could leave them in the UK without any difficulty. I have full residency here, pay my taxes, changed my bank accounts and have my residency green card.
> 
> What do I do to have to get a proper sip card here?????
> 
> I have my EHIC card which they have given me a semi sip card which I have to present with my passport, EHIC, NIE and other papers every time I need to go to the doctor, however, I am terrified as I am diabetic, baby on the way that I will be left with nothing should the british government not pay for what I need as I am, afterall, legally resident in spain, although as I said I have two small pensions that are paid in Britain ...
> 
> Anyone ... I am about to climb the walls and seriously thinking of returning back to Scotland ... this isn't a way of life as I have tried in all my powers to do everything correctly with my paperwork both in the UK and here in Spain ...
> 
> thank you in advance ... Bernadette


The way I see this is that having worked you are entitled to a S.I.P card here in Valencia & if I were you I would visis a good Gestor to get them on the case.
Were are you based ?


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## Allie-P

I wish you success, fyfin

We are pensioners & armed with our Residencia, SI's & all other relevant certificates & paperwork - plus numerous photocopies !!! - we presented ourselves at Fuengirola INSS.

Everything was in order - however, we were told there is a 6 week wait before the required letter, enabling our health care registration, is sent to our home address.

Perhaps, each Provence differs......Please let us know.


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## fyfin

I thought they returned a copy of your S1 and then you took it to your local health centre and got a temporary card of some sort until the proper one turned up but I will certainly relay our story when we have a go at doing it.
We might even go up there tomorrow.


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## Allie-P

fyfin said:


> I thought they returned a copy of your S1 and then you took it to your local health centre and got a temporary card of some sort until the proper one turned up but I will certainly relay our story when we have a go at doing it.
> We might even go up there tomorrow.




Hi - So did I !!! 

They stamped our returned SI & told us we had to wait for up to 6 weeks for, "the letter."..... We were dealt with at the initial reception desk, a ticket was not needed.

Please let us know how you get on & ensure that you get there as early as possible......we were there at 8.30- they open at 9 am - & there was a huge queue already !


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## gus-lopez

They are just pulling your leg & gaining time without additional people registered who are wholly entitled. 
With the correct paperwork the health registration certificate should be presented to you immediately & then the cards should follow after. In the mean time you can use the paper until they arrive.


----------



## fyfin

So is the stamped S1 not the document you take to your local Health Centre and then they do the rest i.e. issue cards etc or have I got it wrong again!

Also forgot to mention I have completed a TA1 form which I was going to take as I thought you needed a Social Security number before you could go to the medical centre.


----------



## Allie-P

fyfin said:


> So is the stamped S1 not the document you take to your local Health Centre and then they do the rest i.e. issue cards etc or have I got it wrong again!
> 
> Also forgot to mention I have completed a TA1 form which I was going to take as I thought you needed a Social Security number before you could go to the medical centre.



Such a confusing subject !!

We didn't need the TA1 form - I receive a UK state pension & OH is my dependent .

We were told that we had to wait 6 weeks for the letter/certificate - *then* take it to our local Health centre with the stamped S1......


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## fyfin

Now I am definitely confused and hopefully one of the more experienced members on here will come back with a definite answer. I thought you had to have a Social Security number (hence the TA1) before you could progress any further with the Tarjeta Sanitaria.

I suppose I could just go to Huercal Overa with the S1 forms and see what happens but the OP mentioned the TA1 forms but I'm not sure if they were retired or not, maybe that makes a difference.


----------



## snikpoh

gus-lopez said:


> They are just pulling your leg & gaining time without additional people registered who are wholly entitled.
> With the correct paperwork the health registration certificate should be presented to you immediately & then the cards should follow after. In the mean time you can use the paper until they arrive.


This is simply wrong.

If you go to your local INSS office, they have to then send all paperwork to their 'head' office (be that Valencia, Alicante, Madrid or where ever). The head office then makes a decision and sends you a letter, they also update the computer.

When you have the letter, it is this that is taken to the health centre. They then check on their computer and, if all is OK, then can produce your health cards.

Until you have been approved and have your health cards, if you need to visit a doctor, then you will be charged.


This is the process that we have had to follow and we have had it confirmed by the UK consulate (who intervened for us). By-the-way, it took over 5 months for us even though we had health care previously (which they cancelled for no valid reason).


----------



## fyfin

But surely there is no decision to make, if you have an S1 form and your Empadronamiento and residencia, you are automatically entitled to health cover in Spain as per UKinspain website :-

"Once you have your certificates, take them, along with both copies of your S1, to the local Instituto Nacional de la Seguridad Social (INSS) office. They will keep one copy and return the other copy signed and stamped. This copy can now be used in order to access the healthcare system.

You don’t need to register with a local GP but be aware this may mean that you’re not seen by the same doctor every time.

The S1 is valid until the expiry date shown on the document and you may be treated as a private patient if the form has expired and you haven’t got any other right to Spanish State healthcare. If there isn’t an end date, the document is valid until the International Pension Centre (IPC) tells Spain that the cover has to end. When visiting the UK, you will still be able to access NHS services under the normal rules. S1 holders should continue to use their UK-issued EHIC when visiting a third EU Member State."

My question is whether we need to complete TA1 forms as stated by the original poster.


----------



## chica de cocentaina

There seems to be total confusion in the minds of many people over health care entitlement in Spain and I will try to clarify the issue. My husband and I retired early and are not in receipt of UK State pensions. Therefore, until the Spanish government passed its new healthcare law last year we were not entitled to free State healthcare in Spain and we relied upon private health insurance. Before the new law came into force in September last year you could not get free health care in Spain unless you were in receipt of a UK State pension or were the dependent of a UK pensioner. UK State pensioners are issued with a Form SI from the UK government which is then submitted to a Spanish INSS office along with the usual other documents and entry into the Spanish State healthcare system is very straightforward. Why wouldn´t it be? After all, the UK government pays the Spanish government €4,200 a year for each pensioner who registers their Form S1 with the INSS!
Getting entry into the Spanish healthcare system if you are not of UK pension age, and therefore do not have a Form S1, is a little more complicated. Firstly, you must have a Residencia issued BEFORE April 24, 2012, and you must be able to prove that your income is less than €100,000 a year (We did this by submitting a copy of our 2011 Spanish tax return). Also, you must have a “Legislative Letter” issued by the UK Overseas Healthcare Team at Newcastle, which explains in Spanish that you are no longer entitled to State healthcare in the UK (a simple phone call to Newcastle will get this posted to you). You download and complete “documento acreditativo del derecho a assistencia sanitaria” from the INSS website, make an appointment on-line and then attend with all your paperwork. We were in and out within 15 minutes with the acceptance forms in hand. These you take to your local health centre who issue a temporary SIP card. The permanent plastic card can be collected a few weeks later.
Now, my original post mentioned Form TA1 which we obtained from our local TGSS office. This may be a red herring and I must admit that I am really not sure. It secured us a temporary SIP card from our local health centre but when we went back to collect the permanent card we were told we needed another piece of paperwork. This, it turned out, was the form we were later issued by the INSS. When we completed the application form for the INSS (documento acreditativo del derecho a assistencia sanitaria) this asked for our Spanish social security numbers. As we had these to hand, we entered them on the form and all went well. But, having now read the British Consulate healthcare web site (Health Care In Spain | Working through the British consulate looking to offer information on health care requirements for UK residents living and working in Spain) I am a little confused because this says you do not need to visit the TGSS office. All I can say is that we did get a Spanish SS number using Form TA1 and it worked. If it´s not necessary, that´s great, but it´s easy to get so it´s not a problem one way or the other.
I hope this post has clarified matters. But please remember, the new Spanish healthcare law only works for expats who were legally registered in Spain BEFORE April 24 last year. If you are one of those many people who couldn´t be bothered to do things properly, and have illegally relied upon the UK EHIC card for healthcare in Spain, tough luck, you have missed the boat!


----------



## fyfin

Thank you for your excellent post but unfortunately my circumstances are that I took early retirement and only moved permanently to Spain in Oct 2012 so no chance to register before April 2012. As I had been working up to end of 2011 I was entitled to an S1 form (the same as a UK state pensioner but with an expiry date).

So I have the S1 form and am now also resident and on the Padron but like you having done some research I thought I needed a Social Security number so hence I completed the TA1 to take with us along with the other documents and copies.

However, I am holding back from going there in case someone on here can clarify the situation regarding my particular circumstances.


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## Allie-P

The original OP wasn't receiving a UK pension. It was a follow on regarding Residencia obtained prior to April 2012.......

I hope you receive a definitive reply regarding your TA1 query....we, as pensioners, didn't need to complete it. We did get a Spanish speaking friend to phone the INSS - on our behalf - prior to our visit, regarding procedure. That might be an option - they would tell you if that specific form is required.

I agree with you - once the collective paperwork is deemed satisfactory- the decision is made........Unfortunately, it has to be rubber stamped at Head office.


----------



## snikpoh

chica de cocentaina said:


> There seems to be total confusion in the minds of many people over health care entitlement in Spain and I will try to clarify the issue. My husband and I retired early and are not in receipt of UK State pensions. Therefore, until the Spanish government passed its new healthcare law last year we were not entitled to free State healthcare in Spain and we relied upon private health insurance. Before the new law came into force in September last year you could not get free health care in Spain unless you were in receipt of a UK State pension or were the dependent of a UK pensioner. UK State pensioners are issued with a Form SI from the UK government which is then submitted to a Spanish INSS office along with the usual other documents and entry into the Spanish State healthcare system is very straightforward. Why wouldn´t it be? After all, the UK government pays the Spanish government €4,200 a year for each pensioner who registers their Form S1 with the INSS!
> Getting entry into the Spanish healthcare system if you are not of UK pension age, and therefore do not have a Form S1, is a little more complicated. Firstly, you must have a Residencia issued BEFORE April 24, 2012, and you must be able to prove that your income is less than €100,000 a year (We did this by submitting a copy of our 2011 Spanish tax return). Also, you must have a “Legislative Letter” issued by the UK Overseas Healthcare Team at Newcastle, which explains in Spanish that you are no longer entitled to State healthcare in the UK (a simple phone call to Newcastle will get this posted to you). You download and complete “documento acreditativo del derecho a assistencia sanitaria” from the INSS website, make an appointment on-line and then attend with all your paperwork. We were in and out within 15 minutes with the acceptance forms in hand. These you take to your local health centre who issue a temporary SIP card. The permanent plastic card can be collected a few weeks later.
> Now, my original post mentioned Form TA1 which we obtained from our local TGSS office. This may be a red herring and I must admit that I am really not sure. It secured us a temporary SIP card from our local health centre but when we went back to collect the permanent card we were told we needed another piece of paperwork. This, it turned out, was the form we were later issued by the INSS. When we completed the application form for the INSS (documento acreditativo del derecho a assistencia sanitaria) this asked for our Spanish social security numbers. As we had these to hand, we entered them on the form and all went well. But, having now read the British Consulate healthcare web site (Health Care In Spain | Working through the British consulate looking to offer information on health care requirements for UK residents living and working in Spain) I am a little confused because this says you do not need to visit the TGSS office. All I can say is that we did get a Spanish SS number using Form TA1 and it worked. If it´s not necessary, that´s great, but it´s easy to get so it´s not a problem one way or the other.
> I hope this post has clarified matters. But please remember, the new Spanish healthcare law only works for expats who were legally registered in Spain BEFORE April 24 last year. If you are one of those many people who couldn´t be bothered to do things properly, and have illegally relied upon the UK EHIC card for healthcare in Spain, tough luck, you have missed the boat!


I assume you are in Cocentina? That being the case, is your INSS 'head office' in Valencia or Alicante?

I ask because we live just up the road from you and were NOT allowed to go the route that you did. We came here in 2007, have been legal all that time (residencia, tax forms etc. etc.) yet were told that Valencia operate differently. Eventually we got UKinSpain (consulate) involved but even they gave up when they found that Valencia are openly going against this new law!!!


----------



## gus-lopez

snikpoh said:


> This is simply wrong.
> 
> If you go to your local INSS office, they have to then send all paperwork to their 'head' office (be that Valencia, Alicante, Madrid or where ever). The head office then makes a decision and sends you a letter, they also update the computer.
> 
> When you have the letter, it is this that is taken to the health centre. They then check on their computer and, if all is OK, then can produce your health cards.
> 
> Until you have been approved and have your health cards, if you need to visit a doctor, then you will be charged.
> 
> 
> This is the process that we have had to follow and we have had it confirmed by the UK consulate (who intervened for us). By-the-way, it took over 5 months for us even though we had health care previously (which they cancelled for no valid reason).



I can assure you it isn't. With the correct paperwork once you go to the inss office the decision, well there isn't a decision to be made actually. With the correct paperwork , residencia before april 24th 2012 & the ' solicitud de reconocimiento del derecho a la asistencia sanitaria de la seguridad social ' application filled in you are a spaniard without the passport.
Once the paperwork is entered in to the system at the inss office the paper ? Documento Acreditativo del Derecho A asistencia Sanitaria ' is printed straight away & it isthis that you take to the medical centre where you are signed on ,on production of it & given the ' documantación para la emisión y/o modificación de la tarjet sanitaria'; which entitles you to healthcare immediately until the tarjetas arrive. Even if the cards do not arrive for years the paper remains your entitlement to healthcare .
The only things required to register for healthcare at the INss are
1) Residencia
2) letter of legislation
3) marriage certificate if registering benificiaries ( In english & no translation required ) 
4) spanish driving licence to prove who you are ( passport can be used )
5) the 'solicitud de reconocimiento del derecho a la asistencia sanitaria de la seguridad social ' form


If you have all the above , make an appointment you will walk out with the 'Documento Acreditativo del Derecho A asistencia Sanitaria '

If you then take this to your medical centre you will be signed on & out with ' documantación para la emisión y/o modificación de la tarjet sanitaria' . If you get the INSS appointment first thing it is possible to do in a morning.

As I said before they are pulling your leg & delaying there is no decision to be made for anyone with residencia before april 24th. They cannot deny you as you are the same as a spaniard. 

chica de cocentaina I've been here 11 years. I still have 8 years to retirement. 
We have always had spanish healthcare since we came. The only requirement before was registration on the padron. I did not know that my spanish teacher told me & made us go & do it !


----------



## gus-lopez

snikpoh said:


> . Eventually we got UKinSpain (consulate) involved but even they gave up when they found that Valencia are openly going against this new law!!!


& there you have it. The reason that they are against it is that having offered healthcare to all & sundry foreigners over many years by abusing the ' extranjero titular sin recursos' which is what they were signing them all on under; then finding that they now had an unbalanced & overloaded health system due to the sheer amount of retiree's that they had encouraged, they pulled the rug from under them all & brought in the payment system , 90€ (?) month per person. 

That is the reason why they don't like the new system , they are losing money.


----------



## ericban

Hi All,

I have read this whole thread, and it appears to have become more confusing the further I have got.

I went to see a Gestoria a couple of days ago, armed with all of this new information, and was told that in my case they could not get involved and I had to sort it out personally, but were helpful(ish) in telling me where to go to start. Cartagens Main Police Station.

Is anyone else on here in a similar situation to me so that I can pick there brains?

I am 49, I was injured in the Marines and forced to retire early (although I had completed over 22 years, so received my full pension Tax Free). I also receive a War Pension at 70% disablement Tax Free. I have lower limb problems so receive Unemployability Supplement (as I will not work again, in this lifetime anyway. lol)

We have "Run to the sun" in Spain on 22nd January this year and have travelled from Alicante up to the Pyreenees along or near to the coast looking for somewhere to live permanently. We have headed back south and are currently at La Torre golf Resort, Roldan, Murcia where we have just signed an 11 month rental and our daughter has been accepted into Kings College International School. I was told I need an NIE and Spanish bank account ASAP. I kind of knew that anyway so started the ball rolling.

However, according to the Gestoria, 
1, Early retirement is not a valid reason to apply for NIE alone, so I must go for Residentia, 
2, I do not pay tax so I must go straight for residentia.
3. I need the NIE number from my residentia to go on the Padron.
4. I need transport daily. I am paying a fortune for hire cars, I want to buy a car ASAP but cannot until this is all sorted out.
Is this all correct? As it means I cannot do much or anything for months.

I have applied to Overseas Healthcare and they are sending an S1 to my UK address with my wife and daughter as dependants, this is because I was injured in service. It will be sent out to me by family in UK.

SPVA (Pensions) are sending me a breakdown of my pension so that I can prove we will not be a burden on the Spanish State. (apparently it will take up to 8 weeks for me to get that letter, I think they must carve it from stone, lol).

None of us work or will work but are totally self sufficient. The UK will pay Spain over £4k/year for healthcare for each of the 3 of us according to Overseas Healthcare Team.

So, Is the information I have correct? Do I have to go straight for full residentia? Can we get temporary medical cover from our EHIC cards while waiting for our residentia to be sorted out. I think I read that you can take your EHIC and get a temporary SIP. Is this correct? Is my next step to sit and wait for the paperwork from the UK, or is there something I can be getting on with in the meantime? Do I really need Marriage and Birth Certificates? They are in storage in the UK and it will mean a flight back just to get them.

Sorry for the long post, but it seems the more I read, the more my case does not fit anything I read.

TIA for any help
Regards


----------



## chris&vicky

chica de cocentaina said:


> This is something very new, and is of interest to all of us who are legal and registered for tax purposes in Spain. Do not believe all the negative coverage in the local English press about the new healthcare rules in Spain, if you are legally registered as a fiscal resident of Spain, you are now entitled to a social security number and SIP card (providing your income is less than 100k a year).
> 
> The new law gives EU residents in Spain (regardless of age) the same rights as Spanish citizens. To prove the point my husband and I downloaded Form TA1 from the government website, filled it in and presented it along with the necessary paperwork to our local TGSS office. We walked out 15 minutes later with a Spanish social security number.
> 
> We went straight to the local health centre, handed them the TGSS form and a copy of our up to date padron and passport, and were immediately issued with a provisional SIP card, with the promise that the permanent plastic version would be ready for collection before Christmas.
> We often wondered why we had bothered to do everything legally when we moved to Spain in 2008, as no-one else seemed to bother, now it seems we are getting the reward for doing everything by the book.
> By the way,we retired early, and still have several years to go before we reach state pension age, so this change in the law is an incredible benefit to us. We pay for private health care, but there are numerous exclusions on the policy due to pre-existing conditions, so potentially we could have faced serious problems without state health cover.My husband's company pension was taxed in the UK, but now we are fiscally resident in Spain we fall below the tax threshold, so for us it's better in more ways than one to be legal.


I find this post rather confusing. It was a worry of mine that as I will be 61 when the temporary cover provided by the S1 form expires for me, and private cover will have the exclusions you talk of for me too. I thought that I would not qualify for cover provided by the Spanish State until I reach the age that I receive my UK pension (67). Everything I have read or have been told has said this, are you saying that is not the case now?


----------



## xabiaxica

chris&vicky said:


> I find this post rather confusing. It was a worry of mine that as I will be 61 when the temporary cover provided by the S1 form expires for me, and private cover will have the exclusions you talk of for me too. I thought that I would not qualify for cover provided by the Spanish State until I reach the age that I receive my UK pension (67). Everything I have read or have been told has said this, are you saying that is not the case now?


it's not the case as long as you were registered as resident & submitting tax returns before April 24th 2012

if you were, then you can access state healthcare now


in most areas - there are a couple of comunidades ignoring the ruling, apparently


if you registered after that date &/or weren't doing tax returns you don't qualify


----------



## xabiaxica

ericban said:


> Hi All,
> 
> I have read this whole thread, and it appears to have become more confusing the further I have got.
> 
> I went to see a Gestoria a couple of days ago, armed with all of this new information, and was told that in my case they could not get involved and I had to sort it out personally, but were helpful(ish) in telling me where to go to start. Cartagens Main Police Station.
> 
> Is anyone else on here in a similar situation to me so that I can pick there brains?
> 
> I am 49, I was injured in the Marines and forced to retire early (although I had completed over 22 years, so received my full pension Tax Free). I also receive a War Pension at 70% disablement Tax Free. I have lower limb problems so receive Unemployability Supplement (as I will not work again, in this lifetime anyway. lol)
> 
> We have "Run to the sun" in Spain on 22nd January this year and have travelled from Alicante up to the Pyreenees along or near to the coast looking for somewhere to live permanently. We have headed back south and are currently at La Torre golf Resort, Roldan, Murcia where we have just signed an 11 month rental and our daughter has been accepted into Kings College International School. I was told I need an NIE and Spanish bank account ASAP. I kind of knew that anyway so started the ball rolling.
> 
> However, according to the Gestoria,
> 1, Early retirement is not a valid reason to apply for NIE alone, so I must go for Residentia,
> 2, I do not pay tax so I must go straight for residentia.
> 3. I need the NIE number from my residentia to go on the Padron.
> 4. I need transport daily. I am paying a fortune for hire cars, I want to buy a car ASAP but cannot until this is all sorted out.
> Is this all correct? As it means I cannot do much or anything for months.
> 
> I have applied to Overseas Healthcare and they are sending an S1 to my UK address with my wife and daughter as dependants, this is because I was injured in service. It will be sent out to me by family in UK.
> 
> SPVA (Pensions) are sending me a breakdown of my pension so that I can prove we will not be a burden on the Spanish State. (apparently it will take up to 8 weeks for me to get that letter, I think they must carve it from stone, lol).
> 
> None of us work or will work but are totally self sufficient. The UK will pay Spain over £4k/year for healthcare for each of the 3 of us according to Overseas Healthcare Team.
> 
> So, Is the information I have correct? Do I have to go straight for full residentia? Can we get temporary medical cover from our EHIC cards while waiting for our residentia to be sorted out. I think I read that you can take your EHIC and get a temporary SIP. Is this correct? Is my next step to sit and wait for the paperwork from the UK, or is there something I can be getting on with in the meantime? Do I really need Marriage and Birth Certificates? They are in storage in the UK and it will mean a flight back just to get them.
> 
> Sorry for the long post, but it seems the more I read, the more my case does not fit anything I read.
> 
> TIA for any help
> Regards



you can usually open a non-resident bank account with your passport - if they ask for a NIE number, then when you apply for a NIE number, say that's why you need it - for a *non-resident bank account - *although if you shop around you'll find one which will take just your passport
when you have the bank account, start getting your pension or regular transfers paid into it, & it's probably an idea to get a lump sum transferred, too

you live here, so you have to register as resident - you can do that with the S1s as proof of healthcare provision

use your non-resident bank account as proof of funds

that should all be much faster 

the EHIC is for emergency use on holiday - after 90 days here you are considered resident (whether or not you have registered) so you can legitimately use it until the 90 days have passed


----------



## chris&vicky

xabiachica said:


> it's not the case as long as you were registered as resident & submitting tax returns before April 24th 2012
> 
> if you were, then you can access state healthcare now
> 
> 
> in most areas - there are a couple of comunidades ignoring the ruling, apparently
> 
> 
> if you registered after that date &/or weren't doing tax returns you don't qualify


I move to Spain this year and will obtain temporary cover with the S1 form. After that I will get private cover. Looks like I have no chance of cover under the state scheme so will just have to deal with any exclusions that arise on the insurance then.


----------



## ericban

xabiachica,

Thanks for your reply. I will open a passport account then transfer it when I get the residentia sorted.

I tried to speak to both HMRC and Overseas Pensions today to hurry them up a bit, but they were short staffed due to industrial action and asked me to call later this week, typical.

SPVA are sending me more forms so that I can have the pensions sent to my new Spanish bank once it is opened.

So everything seems to be going in the right direction today.

Do you think I will need marriage and birth certificates? If so, it is a trip back home I'm afraid.

Regards


----------



## xabiaxica

ericban said:


> xabiachica,
> 
> Thanks for your reply. I will open a passport account then transfer it when I get the residentia sorted.
> 
> I tried to speak to both HMRC and Overseas Pensions today to hurry them up a bit, but they were short staffed due to industrial action and asked me to call later this week, typical.
> 
> SPVA are sending me more forms so that I can have the pensions sent to my new Spanish bank once it is opened.
> 
> So everything seems to be going in the right direction today.
> 
> *Do you think I will need marriage and birth certificates? If so, it is a trip back home I'm afraid.*
> 
> Regards


yes you will - you will also need them apostilled (& maybe even officially translated but the apostille is supposed to be enough)

this can all be arranged online


----------



## fyfin

Just to let you know - today we travelled to the INSS office in Huercal Overa (nice and early arrived at 9.15am) to see if we could register on the Spanish Healthcare system.

We went to a desk first as you cannot take a ticket until they know why you are there. As soon as he saw the S1 forms he pressed a button and a ticket was printed for us, about 5 mins later or less , desk no 3 was put up on the screen for us. The guy on the desk was very helpful and could speak good English although we were quite prepared to communicate in Spanish (as best we could).

Luckily I had taken our marriage certificate and a copy as that was requested along with a copy of the Empadronamiento cert, residencia cert and a copy of passport. All copies were handed back at the end to us as they scan them now.

It took a little while (about 20 mins) as he had to deal with two applications but at the end after much computer inputting and stamping , he handed back one each of our S1 forms duly stamped with another form attached.
He explained that as our S1 was temporary we would not receive a Tarjeta Sanitaria and instead we would have to take the stamped S1 form if we wanted treatment.

So we are sorted until Jan 2014 when we will have to decide what to do then , probably some sort of private health insurance until I am 65 in Jul 2016 as it appears we will not receive free treatment as we were not resident before April 24th 2012..

I noticed something else regarding the dates on the S1, ours run from just after when I contacted them 01.11.2012 to 04.01.2014 which is a bit more than a year and I suspect that had I contacted them earlier then it would have still run until 04.01.2014 which is 2 years after I stopped paying NI in UK.


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## chris&vicky

I noticed something else regarding the dates on the S1, ours run from just after when I contacted them 01.11.2012 to 04.01.2014 which is a bit more than a year and I suspect that had I contacted them earlier then it would have still run until 04.01.2014 which is 2 years after I stopped paying NI in UK.[/QUOTE]

Sorry I don't understand this bit? I thought you got 2 to 2 1/2 years from when you stopped paying NI and that'it?


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## xabiaxica

chris&vicky said:


> Sorry I don't understand this bit? I thought you got 2 to 2 1/2 years from when you stopped paying NI and that'it?


it's complicated - it's to do with how much NI you have paid as well as how recently - the _maximum_ you get is 2.5 years, but some people obviously will get much less

and then when you are receipt of your state pension it starts again as an add-on to the pension


----------



## Allie-P

I am very glad to hear of fyfin's success at his local INSS office.........

I wonder why it was different for us . 

We attended with our SI - I receive a state pension, husband is my dependant - INSS photocopied all relevant papers, Residencia, Padron etc - returning us a copy of the S1, duly stamped.

We were then told to go....they said that we would receive the appropriate letter, by post - within 6 weeks.

Nearly 3 weeks & waiting !!!! I am very confused about the different INSS procedures.

Was it different for us , because we will be entitled to permanent Health cards


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## fyfin

Just saw this reply, I suspect that as you are a pensioner then you will have to wait for the actual card or letter to take to the Health Centre to get a card but in the meantime the stamped S1 will suffice if you need treatment.

Having tried to read the new law in Spanish I am now somewhat confused regarding the 24th April 2012 date as it appears to me that the only criteria is that you have to be resident. The 24th April was significant as that is when it became harder to be a resident by showing you had means to support yourself and "medical cover i.e in my case S1 form).

But when the S1 runs out (and I will not be 65 until 2016), I will be able to get a letter from Newcastle stating that I have no cover in UK so in theory I should fall into the category that can be covered in Spain. 

Am I reading this right?


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## Stravinsky

fyfin said:


> But when the S1 runs out (and I will not be 65 until 2016), I will be able to get a letter from Newcastle stating that I have no cover in UK so in theory I should fall into the category that can be covered in Spain.
> 
> *Am I reading this right?*


No, I dont think so unless I am missing something about your situation

When your S1 runs out you will need private health cover unless you are working here or of pensionable age.


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## xabiaxica

fyfin said:


> Just saw this reply, I suspect that as you are a pensioner then you will have to wait for the actual card or letter to take to the Health Centre to get a card but in the meantime the stamped S1 will suffice if you need treatment.
> 
> Having tried to read the new law in Spanish I am now somewhat confused regarding the 24th April 2012 date as it appears to me that the only criteria is that you have to be resident. The 24th April was significant as that is when it became harder to be a resident by showing you had means to support yourself and "medical cover i.e in my case S1 form).
> 
> But when the S1 runs out (and I will not be 65 until 2016), I will be able to get a letter from Newcastle stating that I have no cover in UK so in theory I should fall into the category that can be covered in Spain.
> 
> Am I reading this right?


Strav is correct - you have to have been registered as resident & fiscally resident before the residency rules changed in order to access free healthcare

anyone registering after that date has to contribute in some way (work/S1)


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## fyfin

So if this was UK I could claim discrimination!  It does seem a bit of an anomoly though. As an EU citizen and having contributed to the UK healthcare system for 38 years, despite not being retired, you would think I would be entitled to free healthcare somewhere.

If we still lived in the UK we would be entitled to free treatment but I can understand why the Spanish imposed this rule, it's just unlucky for us that we only moved over after April 2012.


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## Calas felices

_"As an EU citizen and having contributed to the UK healthcare system for 38 years, despite not being retired, you would think I would be entitled to free healthcare somewhere."_

But you are - the UK.! If all the money went into a general pot and then was shared out by each country, then maybe it would be different. However the money you paid into the UK pot was not kept for your future but paid for you every time you saw the doctor or went to hospital. The UK Government does pay Spain for your healthcare when you become a pensioner though. Spain only looks after it's own.


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## fyfin

Calas felices said:


> _"As an EU citizen and having contributed to the UK healthcare system for 38 years, despite not being retired, you would think I would be entitled to free healthcare somewhere."_
> 
> But you are - the UK.! If all the money went into a general pot and then was shared out by each country, then maybe it would be different. However the money you paid into the UK pot was not kept for your future but paid for you every time you saw the doctor or went to hospital. The UK Government does pay Spain for your healthcare when you become a pensioner though. Spain only looks after it's own.


Words of wisdom! And you know something, living here in Almeria makes up for much more than lack of free healthcare. We have missed one of the coldest longest winters in UK and our lifestyle has vastly improved so I will thank God that I am in fairly good health and at least can get out for a walk every day without worrying I might slip on the ice! :clap2:


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## chris&vicky

xabiachica said:


> anyone registering after that date has to contribute in some way (work/S1)


So why would I not get free healthcare if Spain is taxing me on private pension income, income from renting my UK home, and income from UK investments? I am contributing, probably more than many who work.


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## Stravinsky

fyfin said:


> So if this was UK I could claim discrimination!  It does seem a bit of an anomoly though. As an EU citizen and having contributed to the UK healthcare system for 38 years, despite not being retired, you would think I would be entitled to free healthcare somewhere.
> 
> If we still lived in the UK we would be entitled to free treatment but I can understand why the Spanish imposed this rule, it's just unlucky for us that we only moved over after April 2012.


Why discrimination?
If you lived in the UK you WOULD have been entitled to free healthcare, because its the country that you lived in. If you however choose to move abroad then the UK washes its hands of you unless you satisfy certain requirements. You're treated like a leper! Its not particularly the Spanish therefore that imposed this rule, its the UK government NOT refunding the cost


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## Allie-P

fyfin said:


> Just saw this reply, I suspect that as you are a pensioner then you will have to wait for the actual card or letter to take to the Health Centre to get a card but in the meantime the stamped S1 will suffice if you need treatment.
> ?




Cheers for the reply, fyfin

I am very glad your temporary SI was deftly sorted.

You are probably right about our situation - nearly 4 weeks & still waiting  If we should need treatment before receipt of the letter - hopefully, the stamped S1 *will* be sufficient !

I would rather not put it to the test, though


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## fyfin

chris&vicky said:


> So why would I not get free healthcare if Spain is taxing me on private pension income, income from renting my UK home, and income from UK investments? I am contributing, probably more than many who work.


Good point - I hadn't thought that way.

Yes it was our choice to move to Spain and glad we did!


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## anles

chris&vicky said:


> So why would I not get free healthcare if Spain is taxing me on private pension income, income from renting my UK home, and income from UK investments? I am contributing, probably more than many who work.


Because to be entitled to healthcare, you have to pay contributions to the INSS (equivalent to NI contributions) which is completely different from what you would be paying to Hacienda (tax) unless you qualify for reciprocal healthcare or you are entitled to free healthcare provided to immigrants who were residing here prior to April 2012.


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## fyfin

Now a slightly different question and maybe I should start a new thread. What happens regarding EHIC cards, ours run out in Sep 2013 and I am tempted to renew online and lie about being in Spain although I am not comfortable about giving false info. The Gov website states :-

"If you are a UK state pensioner living in Spain and registered for healthcare with an S1, the UK is responsible for issuing your EHIC to use on a temporary stay in the UK and a third EU country. For more information, telephone the Overseas Healthcare Team on +44 191 218 1999. "

But it says nothing about early retirees and my suspicion is that we will not be entitled to an EHIC card issued by UK unless a) we are past retirement date or b) we were resident before April 2012. And of course we are probably not eligible for one from Spain either.

I could ring Newcastle but that would probably open a can of worms.


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## snikpoh

fyfin said:


> Now a slightly different question and maybe I should start a new thread. What happens regarding EHIC cards, ours run out in Sep 2013 and I am tempted to renew online and lie about being in Spain although I am not comfortable about giving false info. The Gov website states :-
> 
> "If you are a UK state pensioner living in Spain and registered for healthcare with an S1, the UK is responsible for issuing your EHIC to use on a temporary stay in the UK and a third EU country. For more information, telephone the Overseas Healthcare Team on +44 191 218 1999. "
> 
> But it says nothing about early retirees and my suspicion is that we will not be entitled to an EHIC card issued by UK unless a) we are past retirement date or b) we were resident before April 2012. And of course we are probably not eligible for one from Spain either.
> 
> I could ring Newcastle but that would probably open a can of worms.


It's really quite simple. The EHIC card (or TSE equivalent) is only for use in an emergency whilst you are on holiday in a country other than your normal residence.

So, as a resident of Spain and below retirement age, your EHIC card is of NO (zero) use to you. If you do try and use one and are subsequently found out, then you will be billed and possibly fined.

Your best bet is to get holiday insurance.


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## xabiaxica

snikpoh said:


> It's really quite simple. The EHIC card (or TSE equivalent) is only for use in an emergency whilst you are on holiday in a country other than your normal residence.
> 
> So, as a resident of Spain and below retirement age, your EHIC card is of NO (zero) use to you. If you do try and use one and are subsequently found out, then you will be billed and possibly fined.
> 
> Your best bet is to get holiday insurance.


I _think _there's a misunderstanding here

iirc from earlier posts, fyfin has (temporary) access to state healthcare here via the S1as an early retiree

s/he wants to know where to get an EHIC from - do they apply for a Spanish TSE, or do they get an EHIC from the UK, as a UK pensioner with an S1 would


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## snikpoh

xabiachica said:


> I _think _there's a misunderstanding here
> 
> iirc from earlier posts, fyfin has (temporary) access to state healthcare here via the S1as an early retiree
> 
> s/he wants to know where to get an EHIC from - do they apply for a Spanish TSE, or do they get an EHIC from the UK, as a UK pensioner with an S1 would


No, there is no confusion.

They were asking about health cover whilst abroad. I pointed out that their existing EHIC was now invalid and that they are unable to get either a TSE or EHIC as they are not pensioners nor are they working.

Their only bet is holiday insurance.


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## xabiaxica

snikpoh said:


> No, there is no confusion.
> 
> They were asking about health cover whilst abroad. I pointed out that their existing EHIC was now invalid and that they are unable to get either a TSE or EHIC as they are not pensioners nor are they working.
> 
> Their only bet is holiday insurance.


this (which was just posted elsewhere in response to the same question) seems to say that if you have a UK S1 you get an EHIC from the UK, whether or not you are a pensioner

Health Care In Spain | Working through the British consulate looking to offer information on health care requirements for UK residents living and working in Spain




> *IF YOU ARE A UK STATE PENSIONER/INSURED PERSON WITH A REGISTERED S1/E121 IN SPAIN, THE UK EHIC IS ONLY FOR USE OUTSIDE OF SPAIN WHEN ON HOLIDAY WITHIN THE EUROPEAN UNION.
> 
> *


though I could be misunderstanding it :confused2:


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## fyfin

I have also seen that quote but then if you try and renew yiur EHIC on the government website you get this " I understand that should any person on this application decide to remain abroad to live or work, then the relevant authorities must be informed and the EHIC returned. " which implies I shouldn't even be able to use the one I have and is still in date.

The whole issue is confusing as there is contradictory information even on government websites so what chance do we have.

I'm really inclined to say stuff the EHIC and accept that we will take out travel insurance if/when we visit UK or another EU country.

I have also accepted that we will have to take out private health cover when the S1 runs out , until I reach retirement age 65.


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## xabiaxica

fyfin said:


> I have also seen that quote but then if you try and renew yiur EHIC on the government website you get this " I understand that should any person on this application decide to remain abroad to live or work, then the relevant authorities must be informed and the EHIC returned. " which implies I shouldn't even be able to use the one I have and is still in date.
> 
> The whole issue is confusing as there is contradictory information even on government websites so what chance do we have.
> 
> I'm really inclined to say stuff the EHIC and accept that we will take out travel insurance if/when we visit UK or another EU country.
> 
> I have also accepted that we will have to take out private health cover when the S1 runs out , until I reach retirement age 65.



I'd phone the DWP myself - it certainly can't do any harm

I'm pretty sure it has to be issued by them, UK pensioners in Spain have to apply directly to them - they can't order one online


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## pittstop

The EIHC issue is something I'm investigating too. As a European citizen resident in Spain but holding a British passport, having medical cover from the Spanish system means a British issued EIHC would not be valid for use in Spain (while I hold a SIP card) BUT, what do I do when I visit UK? 

According to the British embassy Spain DO issue EIHC cards to Spanish residents for medical cover while on holiday in other European states, therefore I WILL need to hold one when on holiday in the UK which has been issued by SPAIN. 

So where do I get one? 

By the way. I now have my temporary SIP, but when do I get my full one? and will it be posted direct or sent to the medical centre for collection? Instructions from the very unhelpful receptionist who processed my application left me uncertain about what happens next.


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## xabiaxica

pittstop said:


> The EIHC issue is something I'm investigating too. As a European citizen resident in Spain but holding a British passport, having medical cover from the Spanish system means a British issued EIHC would not be valid for use in Spain (while I hold a SIP card) BUT, what do I do when I visit UK?
> 
> According to the British embassy Spain DO issue EIHC cards to Spanish residents for medical cover while on holiday in other European states, therefore I WILL need to hold one when on holiday in the UK which has been issued by SPAIN.
> 
> So where do I get one?
> 
> By the way. I now have my temporary SIP, but when do I get my full one? and will it be posted direct or sent to the medical centre for collection? Instructions from the very unhelpful receptionist who processed my application left me uncertain about what happens next.


is your SIP issued via an S1 or because you pay NI here in Spain?

if the latter you apply for a TSE here - the Spanish version of the EHIC - if the former then you get an EHIC from the DWP in Newcastle

you have to phone them - you can't order it online - they issue one that is valid for use in the UK


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## pittstop

xabiachica said:


> is your SIP issued via an S1 or because you pay NI here in Spain?


I have a sip because I'm a spanish resident earning below the threshold to pay NI in spain and no longer covered by the british system, so neither.


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## xabiaxica

pittstop said:


> I have a sip because I'm a spanish resident earning below the threshold to pay NI in spain and no longer covered by the british system, so neither.



I'd say that you get a TSE here in that case


I'm curious - what's the threshold below which you don't pay NI?

I asked my gestor about it & he said there was no official figure


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## gus-lopez

You can apply online using this.

Seguridad Social:Trabajadores


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## xabiaxica

gus-lopez said:


> You can apply online using this.
> 
> Seguridad Social:Trabajadores


yes, I did that

mine arrived within days - my daughters' cards still haven't a LONG time later 

my elder daughter goes to Latvia in a week - my gestor is trying to find out what the problem is - they just keep saying that the info is incorrect - but it's the same as the info on their tarjetas sanitarias, resident certs & my SS number

luckily it's a school/EU initiative/educational trip & there's private insurance in place, because one of the other students is having the same problem


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## snikpoh

pittstop said:


> I have a sip because I'm a spanish resident earning below the threshold to pay NI in spain and no longer covered by the british system, so neither.


We have friends that we helped with their SIP cards. They too applied for SIP cards on the grounds of 'sin recurso' just like you.

However, when they asked about TSE cards, they were told that they were not entitled to them as they were 'sin recurso'.

We chased this point and eventually were able to get 'temporary' TSE paperwork. They don't actually issue a card (which just lasts for 12 months in Spain unlike UK) but issue a sheet of paper covering them for 3 months.

So, you might be able to get a 'temporary' TSE but not a full card.


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## ericban

*Got Residentia 1st Time*

Hi all,

Just a quick update. We got our residency cards this morning down at Cartagena Police Station (first Attempt), mainly due to the good advice on here and a bit of stern refusal to accept their waving of arms and the word no as the default answer.

We will update later on the thread about residency. We managed to get them on the strength of just my S1 to cover the 3 of us, as it says "and family" on the first line!

However, now the fun starts. Next stop Padron, which seems simple enough, then of course trying to get our SIP cards.

As the Overseas Healthcare team have only sent one S1, with my name only on it, we are again waiting with no health cover for the other two to arrive. Their advice is just pay for medical treatment (what the hell with) then claim it back from the INSS (like we will get it back!) once you get the lack of S1 problem sorted.

We will be reading the thread through again prior to the SIP step.

Fingers crossed, now to hurry up and wait for the postman!

EB


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## Pesky Wesky

ericban said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Just a quick update. We got our residency cards this morning down at Cartagena Police Station (first Attempt), mainly due to the good advice on here and a bit of stern refusal to accept their waving of arms and the word no as the default answer.
> 
> We will update later on the thread about residency. We managed to get them on the strength of just my S1 to cover the 3 of us, as it says "and family" on the first line!
> 
> However, now the fun starts. Next stop Padron, which seems simple enough, then of course trying to get our SIP cards.
> 
> As the Overseas Healthcare team have only sent one S1, with my name only on it, we are again waiting with no health cover for the other two to arrive. Their advice is just pay for medical treatment (what the hell with) then claim it back from the INSS (like we will get it back!) once you get the lack of S1 problem sorted.
> 
> We will be reading the thread through again prior to the SIP step.
> 
> Fingers crossed, now to hurry up and wait for the postman!
> 
> EB


So you got a card, with no photo on it, to say that you have registered on the eu residents list, is that right?


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## ericban

Pesky Wesky said:


> So you got a card, with no photo on it, to say that you have registered on the eu residents list, is that right?


Yes, a little green credit card sized part laminated thing. I believe it replaces the A4 one that many have now.

We are a bit of an awkward case, as I am 49 but retired and on a War Pension and Military Pension Tax Free, so do not pay taxes into the Spanish system directly (other than all the money my missus spends. lol), but the UK government pay around £4k/year for each of us to cover medical expenses.

EB


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## Pesky Wesky

ericban said:


> Yes, a little green credit card sized part laminated thing. I believe it replaces the A4 one that many have now.
> 
> We are a bit of an awkward case, as I am 49 but retired and on a War Pension and Military Pension Tax Free, so do not pay taxes into the Spanish system directly (other than all the money my missus spends. lol), but the UK government pay around £4k/year for each of us to cover medical expenses.
> 
> EB


Thanks, yes I have The Big One, if you know what I mean!!


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## SpanishScot

*A million thanks*

I'd like to send a personal message but am unable to do so.
I was searching the internet and found this topic in December last year. Suffice to say, a fortune has been saved. Thanks again.


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## SpanishScot

As I can't seem to be able to send a pm, I'll elaborate. A relation of mine who is under retirement age had private medical insurance. This was a blessing as he was diagnosed with cancer. He had to pay around €7,000 for chemotherapy pills. Because of your excellent post with a link to the appropriate form, he is now on the Spanish system. He has now to undergo another round of chemotherapy. Cost = nil. A million thanks again.


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## Abby6354

*Social Security Number*

If you receive a Social Security Card/Number does this mean you are liable to pay monthly Social Security contributions?


----------



## gus-lopez

Abby6354 said:


> If you receive a Social Security Card/Number does this mean you are liable to pay monthly Social Security contributions?


No.


----------



## Abby6354

Abby6354 said:


> If you receive a Social Security Card/Number does this mean you are liable to pay monthly Social Security contributions?


Thanks


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## Peter Mitry

As UK pensioners we get the card as a right and we do not pay any more.


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## baldilocks

Don't get confused. If you get a Soc Sec number - this is the number against which you pay your contributions - this is not your Health Service number for which you get a health card and can register with the health service. You only get the health card if you are either paying into the Social Security system OR you have presented (and had accepted) a Form S1 saying that your healthcare is paid for by your previous country. Don't forget that if you are a resident you cannot use a EHIC - it is illegal.


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## baldilocks

Peter Mitry said:


> As UK pensioners we get the card as a right and we do not pay any more.


except that like Spanish pensioners you still pay a proportion of your prescription costs.

You only get the Tarjeta Sanitaria IF you have registered a form S1 with the authorities.


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## Peter Mitry

baldilocks said:


> except that like Spanish pensioners you still pay a proportion of your prescription costs.
> 
> You only get the Tarjeta Sanitaria IF you have registered a form S1 with the authorities.


True but we have S1 and now the tarjeta sanitaria and we pay 10% of the normal cost of the prescription.


----------



## Abby6354

Peter Mitry said:


> As UK pensioners we get the card as a right and we do not pay any more.


Sorry Peter I may have not explained fully. Understand if a pensioner you can obtain your SIPP however my wife and I are 55 an 59. We chose to not work and live on my private pension which is well under the 100000 threshold. Thanks


----------



## Peter Mitry

Abby6354 said:


> Sorry Peter I may have not explained fully. Understand if a pensioner you can obtain your SIPP however my wife and I are 55 an 59. We chose to not work and live on my private pension which is well under the 100000 threshold. Thanks


No worries - mere youngsters! We are 67 & 64 and in receipt of our normal pensions.


----------



## Spainspain

Hi,

My husband I are living in the canary islands and unfortunately my husband had an accident a month ago and had to receive urgent medical treatment. My husband did not have private health insurance (as we were also told that due to his high blood pressure that this would not be of benefit to us) and we were unaware of the royal decree which allows those who have been resident prior to April 2012 and earning less than 100k a year to apply for a SIP card. Having since researched and found out about the decree we have both obtained the neccessary documentation and have been granted our SIP cards (which we would have been entitled to since the new legislation came into effect). We wondered if anyone else had any experience as to whether such cards will apply retrospectively (and would consequently apply to the treatment my husband received a month ago for which we have just recieved the medical bills). I can't seem to find any information or advice on the internet about this. Any help, advice or similar experiences are very much appreciated.


----------



## CapnBilly

Spainspain said:


> Hi, My husband I are living in the canary islands and unfortunately my husband had an accident a month ago and had to receive urgent medical treatment. My husband did not have private health insurance (as we were also told that due to his high blood pressure that this would not be of benefit to us) and we were unaware of the royal decree which allows those who have been resident prior to April 2012 and earning less than 100k a year to apply for a SIP card. Having since researched and found out about the decree we have both obtained the neccessary documentation and have been granted our SIP cards (which we would have been entitled to since the new legislation came into effect). We wondered if anyone else had any experience as to whether such cards will apply retrospectively (and would consequently apply to the treatment my husband received a month ago for which we have just recieved the medical bills). I can't seem to find any information or advice on the internet about this. Any help, advice or similar experiences are very much appreciated.


Unfortunately I don't think it will be retrospective. This is an extract from the INSS website about applying for health cover

" Deadlines:	
The entitlement to health care for both the insured person and their dependants, begins the day of affiliation in the Social Security System and becomes effective as of the day after applying for active contributor status in the appropriate Scheme.


----------



## Cappa

I've read page through page and I can't seem to find an answer. Also the Seguridad Social website is of no use. I've emailed the consulate of Seguridad Social here in the US and awaiting a response.

In the meantime hoping someone here may have the answer, from what I gather the "new law" entails anyone who was a resident in Spain prior to 2011 is entitled to the Seguridad Social correct? In my case, I've been a Spanish citizen since I was born in America pretty much. I've had the DNI and Spanish passport for many many years, I've just never lived in Spain.

If I move to Spain, and not have a job, but have a means of showing that I can support myself (i.e. a bank account with substantial amount of funds which I do have) should I be able to get the seguridad social without an issue?

thank you in advance


----------



## xabiaxica

Cappa said:


> I've read page through page and I can't seem to find an answer. Also the Seguridad Social website is of no use. I've emailed the consulate of Seguridad Social here in the US and awaiting a response.
> 
> In the meantime hoping someone here may have the answer, from what I gather the "new law" entails anyone who was a resident in Spain prior to 2011 is entitled to the Seguridad Social correct? In my case, I've been a Spanish citizen since I was born in America pretty much. I've had the DNI and Spanish passport for many many years, I've just never lived in Spain.
> 
> If I move to Spain, and not have a job, but have a means of showing that I can support myself (i.e. a bank account with substantial amount of funds which I do have) should I be able to get the seguridad social without an issue?
> 
> thank you in advance



I don't think any of us would know really - we're all expats & tend to know how things affect expats rather than citizens

except maybe Lolito - he's a Spanish citizen who returned here from the UK after many years ...... he might know


----------



## Cappa

xabiachica said:


> I don't think any of us would know really - we're all expats & tend to know how things affect expats rather than citizens
> 
> except maybe Lolito - he's a Spanish citizen who returned here from the UK after many years ...... he might know


I figured as much thank you, unfortunately people in my situation are few and far in between so it's very difficult to find any information online and of course we all know how "helpful" the Spanish websites are.

thanks anyway


----------



## Cappa

after much googling this and that I think I finally came across it... looks like alot of paperwork requests but all doable and looks like I "should" be covered and eligible.

In case anyone in my situation is interested
Ministerio de Empleo y Seguridad Social: Asistencia Sanitaria en EEUU


----------



## Peter Mitry

Cappa said:


> I've read page through page and I can't seem to find an answer. Also the Seguridad Social website is of no use. I've emailed the consulate of Seguridad Social here in the US and awaiting a response.
> 
> In the meantime hoping someone here may have the answer, from what I gather the "new law" entails anyone who was a resident in Spain prior to 2011 is entitled to the Seguridad Social correct? In my case, I've been a Spanish citizen since I was born in America pretty much. I've had the DNI and Spanish passport for many many years, I've just never lived in Spain.
> 
> If I move to Spain, and not have a job, but have a means of showing that I can support myself (i.e. a bank account with substantial amount of funds which I do have) should I be able to get the seguridad social without an issue?
> 
> thank you in advance


This one beats me Cappa, My wife and I have been Residents since 1997 and until we reached retirement age we had private health insurance. I have never heard of the law you refer to. We did have a business here from 2003-2008 and we had the Tarjeta Sanitaria because of that. However, that expired in 2008 and our Gestor did not advise us of any other options, which is why we did not get another Tarjeta Sanitaria until we reached retirement age in 2011.


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## Lolito

Uhm... I am not too sure myself, laws changes here in Spain like the wind, so it is difficult to keep us even for us Spanish citizens. 

I spent half my life in the UK and when I came back in 2011 I went to the SS office to get both mine and Mark's SIP cards. I didn't have any trouble as I worked in Spain before I left many yonks ago, so they gave me the card with the same SS number obviously and without an expiry date on it. 

Mark got his because of the S1, but that expired earlier this year and thanks god he is never sick or in need of a GP, so we have left it like that. I suppose if we do get married here in Spain then I can 'put' him under my SS number and he'll have no problem or so I have been told.

However, you being a Spanish Citizen, but never worked in Spain I am not sure, although I have been told (I am always being told something or the other... lol!) that they can give you a SS card on that basis, and put you as 'persona sin recursos', which means you are covered and won't have to pay for medicines. 

If I hear something about it, then I will let you know.


----------



## Cappa

thank you lolito... you're right it's always changes and even my friends in Spain say the same they never know... according to the website it doesn't seem like there are any restrictions on whether or not I was working/born in Spain previous to returning so it's either incredibly vague(which wouldn't be a surprise) or it doesn't list any restrictions because there really aren't any. I'm going to attempt to call el consulado sometime this week and hope they are helpful.... they usually aren't when it comes to things like this so I'm not holding my hopes though. thank you again!

I also found this neat website Ayudas a emigrantes retornados | Cita previa INEM

Which is for returning immigrants but it does sound like you needed to have been born in Spain, left, and the come back... but everything is worth a shot. Doesn't hurt to try?


----------



## Lolito

Ayuda al Emigrante retornado, used to be around 400 euros, you will need to keep a copy of your flight tickets together with a letter from the Consulate saying which day you leave the USA, and they will give you a certificate of emigrante retornado, I think if you can prove that you have no money they help moving you over here (as in removals, etc), but I believe that helps has now gone. 

I do have the certificate of emigrante retornado too, but I didn't need to get it as it is only for people moving to Spain from the outside the EEC, like USA or Australia, but the people at the Unemployment Centre asked me for one, no matter how many times I told them I was coming from the UK, they wouldn't listen. So I got one which later on, another person at the same jobcentre told me I don't need it as I come from UK ... go figure!


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## Abby6354

Thanks for this information. We are 56 & 59 and chose to give up work early 5 years ago ( don't like retired as it makes you sound old) We have been here for almost five years. We followed your instructions and we have been issued with SIP cards so fantastic news. We live in Cost Blanca.


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## spain2

*health cover*

Hola chica de cocentaina :yo:
About your health cover success story.....we have downloaded the TA1 form and have all the documents you mentioned. If we are not registered as a fiscal resident of Spain ( also early retired like you) can we still get the SIP card. Ta very much


----------



## xabiaxica

spain2 said:


> Hola chica de cocentaina :yo:
> About your health cover success story.....we have downloaded the TA1 form and have all the documents you mentioned. If we are not registered as a fiscal resident of Spain ( also early retired like you) can we still get the SIP card. Ta very much


have you been registered as resident (green certificate/card) since before April 24th 2012? If so you _might _be able to , even without proving fiscal residency - but it will likely be a battle

you really should be submitting tax returns though, regardless (or at least one, the first year you were resident)


----------



## CapnBilly

xabiachica said:


> have you been registered as resident (green certificate/card) since before April 24th 2012? If so you _might _be able to , even without proving fiscal residency - but it will likely be a battle
> 
> you really should be submitting tax returns though, regardless (or at least one, the first year you were resident)


Submitting a tax return in Spain is clearly the easiest way, as Xabiachica says, but it isn't the only way. You may be asked to provide a certificate from the HMRC certifying you income for the year. Note the year in question is November to November, so you will need certificates covering two years. A translated P60 should be sufficient, but you never know. You may even get lucky and not be asked for anything.


----------



## snikpoh

spain2 said:


> Hola chica de cocentaina :yo:
> About your health cover success story.....we have downloaded the TA1 form and have all the documents you mentioned. If we are not registered as a fiscal resident of Spain ( also early retired like you) can we still get the SIP card. Ta very much


Might be a stupid question but how long have you been in Spain? If longer than a year, why are you not submitting tax returns?

Remember also that 'SIP' is the name that Valencia gives to their cards, I think other areas call them something different.


----------



## baldilocks

snikpoh said:


> Might be a stupid question but how long have you been in Spain? If longer than a year, why are you not submitting tax returns?
> 
> Remember also that 'SIP' is the name that Valencia gives to their cards, I think other areas call them something different.


Andalucía they are "Tarjeta Sanitaria Individual", at least mine is.


----------



## spain2

*reply to snikpoh*



snikpoh said:


> Might be a stupid question but how long have you been in Spain? If longer than a year, why are you not submitting tax returns?
> 
> Remember also that 'SIP' is the name that Valencia gives to their cards, I think other areas call them something different.


Hello snikpoh. We have been living in Spain for 7 years. For 3 years we submitted tax returns and then were told by a gestoria that we didn`t need to do this any longer cos I paid tax on my pension in UK & the wife has no pension so pays no tax. 
What`s next? Thanks


----------



## snikpoh

spain2 said:


> Hello snikpoh. We have been living in Spain for 7 years. For 3 years we submitted tax returns and then were told by a gestoria that we didn`t need to do this any longer cos I paid tax on my pension in UK & the wife has no pension so pays no tax.
> What`s next? Thanks


Hopefully you have now changed gestoria and are submitting returns! Whether, ultimately you need to or not (although I think you'll find one has to by law), it will pay dividends in so many ways - health cover, succession tax etc. etc.

Have you submitted a modelo 720 or did you not need to?

If you were not registered as tax resident (submitting tax returns) before 24th April 2012, then you will not be able to get health cover other than by going private.


----------



## Andrew.in.Alora

Apologies for coming onto this thread so late, but I have been searching the forum for some information regarding health cover and this thread seems the closest. We currently live in the UK but planning to move permantly to our house in Malaga, Spain. I recently retired and in receipt of state pension, however my husband is 10 years younger, disabled, and has recently been retired early from work due to his ill health with a works pension (local government).
I understand that I would be entitled to free state health care due to recieving State Pension, but was wondering about my husband. He receives the care element of DLA, but not incapacity benefit which I think is the key benefit, but could he be classed as my dependant partner?


----------



## snikpoh

Andrew.in.Alora said:


> Apologies for coming onto this thread so late, but I have been searching the forum for some information regarding health cover and this thread seems the closest. We currently live in the UK but planning to move permantly to our house in Malaga, Spain. I recently retired and in receipt of state pension, however my husband is 10 years younger, disabled, and has recently been retired early from work due to his ill health with a works pension (local government).
> I understand that I would be entitled to free state health care due to recieving State Pension, but was wondering about my husband. He receives the care element of DLA, but not incapacity benefit which I think is the key benefit, but could he be classed as my dependant partner?


Very simply, if he is your husband (not just partner), then yes.


----------



## Andrew.in.Alora

Thank you for this, and yes he is my husband, married for nearly 30 years with children and grandkids. (I think the confusion is that I am using my husbands login details to the forum).

Its just that I was getting a bit worried as wanted to do everything legal and above board so we could sleep easily at night, and as he is under state retirement age I worried I would not get him covered by the state system.

Thanks again


----------



## Allie-P

Myself & husband moved to Spain, a year ago. I receive the UK state Pension, he doesn't qualify until 2015....

He is classed as my dependant. We are both, now, in the happy position of receiving free Spanish state health care.

The long & winding road of how we obtained it - that is another story - but, very well documented in my previous posts !!

Good luck


----------



## norman port

chica de cocentaina said:


> This is something very new, and is of interest to all of us who are legal and registered for tax purposes in Spain. Do not believe all the negative coverage in the local English press about the new healthcare rules in Spain, if you are legally registered as a fiscal resident of Spain, you are now entitled to a social security number and SIP card (providing your income is less than 100k a year).
> 
> The new law gives EU residents in Spain (regardless of age) the same rights as Spanish citizens. To prove the point my husband and I downloaded Form TA1 from the government website, filled it in and presented it along with the necessary paperwork to our local TGSS office. We walked out 15 minutes later with a Spanish social security number.
> 
> We went straight to the local health centre, handed them the TGSS form and a copy of our up to date padron and passport, and were immediately issued with a provisional SIP card, with the promise that the permanent plastic version would be ready for collection before Christmas.
> We often wondered why we had bothered to do everything legally when we moved to Spain in 2008, as no-one else seemed to bother, now it seems we are getting the reward for doing everything by the book.
> By the way,we retired early, and still have several years to go before we reach state pension age, so this change in the law is an incredible benefit to us. We pay for private health care, but there are numerous exclusions on the policy due to pre-existing conditions, so potentially we could have faced serious problems without state health cover.My husband's company pension was taxed in the UK, but now we are fiscally resident in Spain we fall below the tax threshold, so for us it's better in more ways than one to be legal.


Thanks for the encouragement - shall come over and give it a whirl again. Norman


----------



## CapnBilly

norman port said:


> Thanks for the encouragement - shall come over and give it a whirl again. Norman


 Just for the sake of clarity, and so there is no confusion, legally registered means before the 24th April 2012. If you were not registered before this date, then unless you are a state pensioner, you will not be entitled to fee healthcare. Once you are registered for a year, you will be able to pay to join the health scheme, and it will cover existing conditions. There's a lot of information further up in the thread.


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## Ladyinred

We are in a similar situation, have been in receipt of social security number and health card due to me being paid incapacity benefits by uk. Under the news ESA as I am not terminally ill I would no longer qualify unless I was living in the uk [ which I have no intension of ever doing) . From now on we will have our private pensions only until we receive our government retirement pensions, will our health care continue as we have full residency and still have our issued health cards, or will we have to reapply?


----------



## norman port

Dear Ladyinred,
Sorry I can't help as I do not fully understand your situation, like, what is "news ESA" please?
From what I've been able to gather; you need to be a UK Government pensioner before you can receive Spanish healthcare cover. Please don't take this as "Gospel", maybe your nearest Consulate can help? Tc, Norman


----------



## xabiaxica

Ladyinred said:


> We are in a similar situation, have been in receipt of social security number and health card due to me being paid incapacity benefits by uk. Under the news ESA as I am not terminally ill I would no longer qualify unless I was living in the uk [ which I have no intension of ever doing) . From now on we will have our private pensions only until we receive our government retirement pensions, will our health care continue as we have full residency and still have our issued health cards, or will we have to reapply?


so you live in Spain & have health cards?

I'm guessing that they are linked to the ESA & that you have/had an S1 ?

they usually have an expiry date on them unless they are for state pensioners & therefore the health card would also expire

however - if you were registered as resident & submitting tax returns before that magic April 24th 2012 then you would be able to apply again under the 'new rules' as set out at the beginning of the thread


----------



## xabiaxica

norman port said:


> Dear Ladyinred,
> Sorry I can't help as I do not fully understand your situation, like, what is "news ESA" please?
> From what I've been able to gather; you need to be a UK Government pensioner before you can receive Spanish healthcare cover. Please don't take this as "Gospel", maybe your nearest Consulate can help? Tc, Norman


it's rather more complicated than that, but all the info is here on the thread


----------



## norman port

Dear xabiachica,

You are right! Shall leave my situation pending until I can actually return to the Costa and review everything. 

Thanks for your help and I'm sorry if I've been trying to teach a crocodile how to swim.

Best regards.

Np


----------



## xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxenjoylife

one more question:
is the "tarjeta sanitaria individual" andaluza
also valid in other spanish regions and
if i should become resident for example
in Valencia o Baleares?

thanks


----------



## xabiaxica

enjoylife said:


> one more question:
> is the "tarjeta sanitaria individual" andaluza
> also valid in other spanish regions and
> if i should become resident for example
> in Valencia o Baleares?
> 
> thanks


at the moment you would have to exchange it for a local one

a 'national' card is currently being rolled out, though


----------



## xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxenjoylife

ok thanks.
.always a lot of good infos here..


----------



## spain2

*health care and sip card*

I already have a NUHSA number, Residencia NIE number and Padron. I am 53 and have taken early retirement through injury. What other paperwork is needed to get a SIP card. I hope you can help and thanks alot.


----------



## xabiaxica

spain2 said:


> I already have a NUHSA number, Residencia NIE number and Padron. I am 53 and have taken early retirement through injury. What other paperwork is needed to get a SIP card. I hope you can help and thanks alot.


when did you register as resident & have you been submitting annual tax returns?


----------



## spain2

Could you tell the relevant papers that we need to apply for the Sip card thanks for your help


----------



## xabiaxica

spain2 said:


> Could you tell the relevant papers that we need to apply for the Sip card thanks for your help


it depends on your answer to my last question...........


----------



## spain2

*health care*

I did tax returns in 2009 and 2010. Then I was told by a gestoria that I did not need to do them anymore. Thanks again for your help


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## norman port

xabiachica,

Good morning.

"Why does the butterfly, flutter by?"

normanport


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## norman port

Because the Woodpecker behind would peck her behind.
np


----------



## xabiaxica

spain2 said:


> I did tax returns in 2009 and 2010. Then I was told by a gestoria that I did not need to do them anymore. Thanks again for your help


in that case you need to do what is described in the first post of this discussion thread


----------



## xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxenjoylife

from age 65 how much is the "copago "for medicine?

thanks


----------



## baldilocks

enjoylife said:


> from age 65 how much is the "copago "for medicine?
> 
> thanks


Varies according to the A.C. but if you are fully registered then it is usually in the order of 10% with a limit according, again to the A.C. I think our maximum is €10 per month.


----------



## Abby6354

Did you ever receive your pernamant SIPP Card. We applied and were issued with Provisional SIPP Cards which expired at the end of March 2014. Went back to our local Medical Centre in Rojales and was told that our card were now valid until 26 June when we will be issued with either another Provisional period or a Pernamant SIPP Cards. Went to our local Salud today and was rudely informed that the Provisional SIPP was not valid and that I wasnot working so was not entitled to it. I could not make an appointment to see the Doc. Went to Rojales medical Centre and they have sent me back to the INSS Office in Torrevieja as the SIPP Cards have been cancelled by Valencia Administation and we need a new Social Security Number. Don't understand as the Social Srcurity Number that was issued to us in Dec is for life. how can they give you the SIPP Card then take it away. Any advise would be appreciated.


----------



## fergie

Abby6354 said:


> Did you ever receive your pernamant SIPP Card. We applied and were issued with Provisional SIPP Cards which expired at the end of March 2014. Went back to our local Medical Centre in Rojales and was told that our card were now valid until 26 June when we will be issued with either another Provisional period or a Pernamant SIPP Cards. Went to our local Salud today and was rudely informed that the Provisional SIPP was not valid and that I wasnot working so was not entitled to it. I could not make an appointment to see the Doc. Went to Rojales medical Centre and they have sent me back to the INSS Office in Torrevieja as the SIPP Cards have been cancelled by Valencia Administation and we need a new Social Security Number. Don't understand as the Social Srcurity Number that was issued to us in Dec is for life. how can they give you the SIPP Card then take it away. Any advise would be appreciated.


Are you UK pensionable age? If so you should get a permanent SIPP card. Even when I got my UK state pension papers, they, from Newcastle advised to take out private health insurance as well, which we have anyway. You have to get an S 1 form from Newcastle, then take it to your local SS office in Spain (we had to make an appointment in our area, just to do this)they then give you another form to take back to the Salud clinic who will then put you on their system, with yet another temporary card until the permanent one is ready-mine took three months.
I think, if you are under UK pensionable age, you have to have an NIE number and be working in Spain to qualify for Salud medical care, in some areas there is a contribution based medical salud care, not sure about Valencia region yet! As there have been a lot of a changes in the last couple of years. If you are not working, or early retired you have to either contribute if your area runs that scheme, or, get private medical insurance.


----------



## Abby6354

Thanks for reply. We are below pension age but were told that if you had Residencia ( and had paid all you Spanish Taxes) prior to Apr 2012 and had an income of below 100000 euro per year you were entitled to a SIPP Card once you obtain your Social Security Number. After Apr 2012 if you want to obtain Residencia and are below pension age you must prove that you have sufficient income and have private health care if you want to live permanent in Spain under EU rules.


----------



## xabiaxica

fergie said:


> Are you UK pensionable age? If so you should get a permanent SIPP card. Even when I got my UK state pension papers, they, from Newcastle advised to take out private health insurance as well, which we have anyway. You have to get an S 1 form from Newcastle, then take it to your local SS office in Spain (we had to make an appointment in our area, just to do this)they then give you another form to take back to the Salud clinic who will then put you on their system, with yet another temporary card until the permanent one is ready-mine took three months.
> I think, if you are under UK pensionable age, you have to have an NIE number and be working in Spain to qualify for Salud medical care, in some areas there is a contribution based medical salud care, not sure about Valencia region yet! As there have been a lot of a changes in the last couple of years. If you are not working, or early retired you have to either contribute if your area runs that scheme, or, get private medical insurance.


for a non-pensioner it depends when they moved here, as it says in the first post of the thread. 

we do have the 'buy-in' convenio especial in the Valencia region


----------



## Abby6354

We moved to Spain in Apr 2009and became resident in Sep that year.


----------



## Abby6354

Below is a quote on British Embassy (Alicante) web site 


"If you registered as a resident in Spain before 24 April 2012, have an annual income of less than €100,000 and are not covered for healthcare though any other means, speak to your local INSS office to register for healthcare in Spain as a resident."


----------



## snikpoh

Abby6354 said:


> Below is a quote on British Embassy (Alicante) web site
> 
> 
> "If you registered as a resident in Spain before 24 April 2012, have an annual income of less than €100,000 and are not covered for healthcare though any other means, speak to your local INSS office to register for healthcare in Spain as a resident."


You need to go back to the INSS with a print out of this particular law. You then need to fill in the appropriate forms to apply for your SIP cards.

Some INSS offices will try and argue otherwise but if you can show them the particular law under which you are applying for health cover, then all '*should*' be OK.


----------



## Lolito

The above is what I have done with my partner (from UK) last week, took him to INSS with a letter from UK (Legislation letter) and voila! five minutes later we came out with a form, went to our 'ambulatorio' and got a permanent with no out of date SIP card. It was far too easy and there I was thinking it would take months or years! lol!


----------



## norman port

Congratulations - is the genie still available !!!


----------



## Abby6354

snikpoh said:


> You need to go back to the INSS with a print out of this particular law. You then need to fill in the appropriate forms to apply for your SIP cards.
> 
> Some INSS offices will try and argue otherwise but if you can show them the particular law under which you are applying for health cover, then all '*should*' be OK.


Went INSS today no luck told me I needed an E106 Form. I argued and showed them that I had the E106 Form in 2009 and was not entitled to anymore. They insisted that I would get a new E106 and gave me the DWP details to contact. Dejected thinking to myself they were sending me on a wild goose chase went home and called DWP. I was correct I am not eligible fir another E106. All they DWP could offer me was a letter in Spanish and English stating that I was Not eligible for Health Care from the UK. So guess I have to wait for these letters to arrive and try again. In the infirm I have e-mailed the British Consulate in Alicante and explained the complete situation, as yet have not had a reply not even an acknowledgement of receipt of my e-mail. Watch this space.


----------



## xabiaxica

Abby6354 said:


> Went INSS today no luck told me I needed an E106 Form. I argued and showed them that I had the E106 Form in 2009 and was not entitled to anymore. They insisted that I would get a new E106 and gave me the DWP details to contact. Dejected thinking to myself they were sending me on a wild goose chase went home and called DWP. I was correct I am not eligible fir another E106. All they DWP could offer me was* a letter in Spanish and English stating that I was Not eligible for Health Care from the UK*. So guess I have to wait for these letters to arrive and try again. In the infirm I have e-mailed the British Consulate in Alicante and explained the complete situation, as yet have not had a reply not even an acknowledgement of receipt of my e-mail. Watch this space.


that's what was missing - with that - known as the 'legislation letter' you should be able to get it sorted out


----------



## Abby6354

xabiachica said:


> that's what was missing - with that - known as the 'legislation letter' you should be able to get it sorted out


Thanks, fingers crossed we get it sorted once letter arrives.


----------



## spain2

How do I get a print out of the legislation letter To help us to get a sip card thanks for your help. phil


----------



## xabiaxica

spain2 said:


> How do I get a print out of the legislation letter To help us to get a sip card thanks for your help. phil


you can't

you have to phone the DWP & they will send a personal letter out to you

ask for one each if you have family here


----------



## Abby6354

Received Letter Of Non Entitlement to Health Care in UK (letter in Spanish). Went back to local INSS office and we were issued with paperwork to the right to receive health care in Spain. Went to local Saluid and they issued us with paper SIP card and told us to come back in two weeks and we would get plastic card. Tested card at doctors and works perfect was given 12 months prescription of high blood pressure tablets. My wife also booked a full MOT and got appointments at Hospital for Cervical Swab and Breast Monogram X-Ray. So looks like we have resolved it will see if we get Plastic SIP card in a weeks time.


----------



## Abby6354

Went to the Salud in Rojales today and received our permanent SIP cards. Success at last perserveance has finally paid off. Happy chappie.


----------



## falcon123

Abby6354 said:


> Thanks for reply. We are below pension age but were told that if you had Residencia ( and had paid all you Spanish Taxes) prior to Apr 2012 and had an income of below 100000 euro per year you were entitled to a SIPP Card once you obtain your Social Security Number. After Apr 2012 if you want to obtain Residencia and are below pension age you must prove that you have sufficient income and have private health care if you want to live permanent in Spain under EU rules.


I have seen everywhere this mention of Apr 2012. Here, I provided a link to a gov't site and says nothing about 2012, just in general that if resident and under 100k, then qualify? maybe? unless I missed something

Ministerio de Empleo y Seguridad Social: Asistencia Sanitaria en EEUU


----------



## xabiaxica

falcon123 said:


> I have seen everywhere this mention of Apr 2012. Here, I provided a link to a gov't site and says nothing about 2012, just in general that if resident and under 100k, then qualify? maybe? unless I missed something
> 
> Ministerio de Empleo y Seguridad Social: Asistencia Sanitaria en EEUU



when the law was changed it was for anyone who was_ already resident_ as of that date - & that was April 24 2012

anyone arriving or registering after then, simply doesn't qualify


it was a HUGE change for Spain - until then, even Spanish Nationals would lose the right to healthcare very soon after they stopped work - it was purely a contribution-based system

some (many) of us were totally convinced that although the law was changed then, & planned for activation the following August, that somehow long term foreign residents would be excluded 

imagine our surprise & delight that we were included - although in my case I'm working & will be for probably many years to come - it is comforting to know that healthcare for me & my children won't suddenly stop if I have to stop work for any reason


----------



## xabiaxica

the UK Consulate has info on its website & there was a lot of discussion in the press, if you read Spanish

https://www.gov.uk/healthcare-in-spain



> If you registered as a resident in Spain before 24 April 2012, have an annual income of less than €100,000 and are not covered for healthcare though any other means, speak to your local INSS office to register for healthcare in Spain as a resident.


----------



## chica de cocentaina

A quick update. I am definitely on the system, as I was contacted by letter inviting me to go for a mammogram as part of the breast screening here in Valencia Communidad. Didn't need to show my SIP card though, as they had all my details on their computer.


----------



## akshulman

If only this was the case with American expats in Spain as well - or does anyone know if it is? Thanks in advance!


----------



## xabiaxica

akshulman said:


> If only this was the case with American expats in Spain as well - or does anyone know if it is? Thanks in advance!


yes, if they fulfill all the criteria


----------



## lind

*Lind*



chica de cocentaina said:


> This is something very new, and is of interest to all of us who are legal and registered for tax purposes in Spain. Do not believe all the negative coverage in the local English press about the new healthcare rules in Spain, if you are legally registered as a fiscal resident of Spain, you are now entitled to a social security number and SIP card (providing your income is less than 100k a year).
> 
> The new law gives EU residents in Spain (regardless of age) the same rights as Spanish citizens. To prove the point my husband and I downloaded Form TA1 from the government website, filled it in and presented it along with the necessary paperwork to our local TGSS office. We walked out 15 minutes later with a Spanish social security number.
> 
> We went straight to the local health centre, handed them the TGSS form and a copy of our up to date padron and passport, and were immediately issued with a provisional SIP card, with the promise that the permanent plastic version would be ready for collection before Christmas.
> We often wondered why we had bothered to do everything legally when we moved to Spain in 2008, as no-one else seemed to bother, now it seems we are getting the reward for doing everything by the book.
> By the way,we retired early, and still have several years to go before we reach state pension age, so
> 
> this change in the law is an incredible benefit to us. We pay for private health care, but there are numerous exclusions on the policy due to pre-existing conditions, so potentially we could have faced serious problems without state health cover.My husband's company pension was taxed in the UK, but now we are fiscally resident in Spain we fall below the tax threshold, so for us it's better in more ways than one to be legal.



Hello, your position sounds like a carbon copy of our situation, we are from the uk and have been here 2 years. We have done everything by the book, we retired early ( and we have several years to 
go too ) and my husband has his private pension paid into our spanish bank account. Our sip card 
runs out in January so we need to pay into the spanish system and would be happy to do so. We do 
not see the point of Private health insurance if this does not include existing conditions ( or you haveto pay extra for it ). I had an operation in a private hospital in march this year and found that the op including the MRI and other scans came to less than a boob job!!! so all in all would cost a lot 
less than the premium we would have paid for the year.

We believe we have to get a convenio especial but where do we get one? and what do we do with it? we live in Alicante Province.
we would appreciate any help you could give, many thanks Lind.


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## snikpoh

lind said:


> Hello, your position sounds like a carbon copy of our situation, we are from the uk and have been here 2 years. We have done everything by the book, we retired early ( and we have several years to
> go too ) and my husband has his private pension paid into our spanish bank account. Our sip card
> runs out in January so we need to pay into the spanish system and would be happy to do so. We do
> not see the point of Private health insurance if this does not include existing conditions ( or you haveto pay extra for it ). I had an operation in a private hospital in march this year and found that the op including the MRI and other scans came to less than a boob job!!! so all in all would cost a lot
> less than the premium we would have paid for the year.
> 
> We believe we have to get a convenio especial but where do we get one? and what do we do with it? we live in Alicante Province.
> we would appreciate any help you could give, many thanks Lind.



The first question I guess is "were you resident in Spain before June 2012" (I think it was June but someone can correct me if I'm wrong).

Because, if you were, then you can get free health care!

If not, then you need to apply via the INSS I think for the convenio especial.


Have you been TAX RESIDENT for more than a year?


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## xabiaxica

snikpoh said:


> The first question I guess is "were you resident in Spain before June 2012" (I think it was June but someone can correct me if I'm wrong).
> 
> Because, if you were, then you can get free health care!
> 
> If not, then you need to apply via the INSS I think for the convenio especial.
> 
> 
> Have you been TAX RESIDENT for more than a year?


the magic date was April 24th 2012 

& yes, you go to the INSS to sign up for the convenio especial


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## lind

*Lind*



snikpoh said:


> The first question I guess is "were you resident in Spain before June 2012" (I think it was June but someone can correct me if I'm wrong).
> 
> Because, if you were, then you can get free health care!
> 
> If not, then you need to apply via the INSS I think for the convenio especial.
> 
> 
> Have you been TAX RESIDENT for more than a year?



Hello,
We registered as Resident oct 2013 and became Tax Resident on 1st Jan 2013

We moved to Spain Sept 2012.


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## xabiaxica

lind said:


> Hello,
> We registered as Resident oct 2013 and became Tax Resident on 1st Jan 2013
> 
> We moved to Spain Sept 2012.


you'll be able to join the convenio especial when your SIPs expire, then


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## extranjero

lind said:


> Hello,
> We registered as Resident oct 2013 and became Tax Resident on 1st Jan 2013
> 
> We moved to Spain Sept 2012.


I think it was April
So Lind isn't eligible


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## xabiaxica

extranjero said:


> I think it was April
> So Lind isn't eligible




she is eligible for the 'buy in' convenio especial, because by the time their SIPs expire they will have been registered residents for more than 12 months - that's the only criteria

they aren't eligible for free healthcare though, that is correct, because they weren't registered on April 24th 2012


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## Katie81

*Katie*

Hi My son was born in Spain and therefore we both had a SIP card, however my ex partner seems to of disposed of them - his twisted way of making things difficult for me! Do you know if there is any way of getting a replacement card?


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## gus-lopez

You should be able to go to your local health centre & with aid of name/address/nie , etc; they should be able to supply new ones.


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## michaelbr51

Thanks to all who contributed to this thread. I saw that most the people here are from EU, so it seems easier to get the government health care and tax card, can someone please tell me if for someone from Brazil or Taiwan can get the health card / tax card as easily? Where do I go to get it?

I recently went to Social Security and they told me that I'm not eligible for government health care, I needed to be resident before 2012. Then this thread said if I have a tax number, I can get the heath card, I'm lost here, am I eligible for government health care being Brazilian, I got here in Jan/16, I'm 64, retired and got a no working visa. If need any other details, please just let me know.


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## xabiaxica

michaelbr51 said:


> Thanks to all who contributed to this thread. I saw that most the people here are from EU, so it seems easier to get the government health care and tax card, can someone please tell me if for someone from Brazil or Taiwan can get the health card / tax card as easily? Where do I go to get it?
> 
> I recently went to Social Security and they told me that I'm not eligible for government health care, I needed to be resident before 2012. Then this thread said if I have a tax number, I can get the heath card, I'm lost here, am I eligible for government health care being Brazilian, I got here in Jan/16, I'm 64, retired and got a no working visa. If need any other details, please just let me know.


If you have been a legally registered resident for 12 months,no matter what nationality you are, then you can join the _convenio especial._ if it is available where you live. That isn't free though, & neither are prescriptions. 

Currently, for someone under the age of 65 this is 60€ per month & 157€ per month, over the age of 65. Some private health insurers charge less than this, but the main advantage of this scheme is that all pre-existing conditions are covered. Not all regions offer this scheme, but the plan is that it will eventually be available nationwide.


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## michaelbr51

xabiachica said:


> If you have been a legally registered resident for 12 months,no matter what nationality you are, then you can join the _convenio especial._ if it is available where you live. That isn't free though, & neither are prescriptions.
> 
> Currently, for someone under the age of 65 this is 60€ per month & 157€ per month, over the age of 65. Some private health insurers charge less than this, but the main advantage of this scheme is that all pre-existing conditions are covered. Not all regions offer this scheme, but the plan is that it will eventually be available nationwide.


Thanks xabiachica for your reply. What about the social security number, am I eligible to have one? I went to seguridad social site and the form TA1 is just for workers in Spain, is it right? What about us who are retired and also paying taxes (property tax, etc.), can we get tax number? if so how?
ps: my status is no working/retirement visa and I live in Barcelona since Jan/16 and I have a 1 year residence permit.


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## xabiaxica

michaelbr51 said:


> Thanks xabiachica for your reply. What about the social security number, am I eligible to have one? I went to seguridad social site and the form TA1 is just for workers in Spain, is it right? What about us who are retired and also paying taxes (property tax, etc.), can we get tax number? if so how?
> ps: my status is no working/retirement visa and I live in Barcelona since Jan/16 and I have a 1 year residence permit.


TA1 - you can get a SS number whether you work or not - you would need one to access the health system.

You say that you have a one year residence permit from Jan this year? You won't be able to apply for the _convenio especial_ until Jan 2017. Until then, you'll have to carry on with private healthcare.

I assume you have a NIE & have sorted out your _tarjeta de residencia _ / residence card? The NIE will be on the card. The date you can apply for the _convenio especial_ will be 12 months from the date that was issued.


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## kalohi

michaelbr51 said:


> Thanks xabiachica for your reply. What about the social security number, am I eligible to have one? I went to seguridad social site and the form TA1 is just for workers in Spain, is it right? What about us who are retired and also paying taxes (property tax, etc.), can we get tax number? if so how?
> ps: my status is no working/retirement visa and I live in Barcelona since Jan/16 and I have a 1 year residence permit.


The number on your residence card is your tax number. This is also your NIE number. 

You aren't eligible for a social security number (and access to state health care) unless you are working or until you have been resident here for a year.


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## xabiaxica

kalohi said:


> The number on your residence card is your tax number. This is also your NIE number.
> 
> You aren't eligible for a social security number (and access to state health care) unless you are working or until you have been resident here for a year.


Yes that's right. although he doesn't have to be working to have a SS number, he will have no reason to have one (& therefore won't be able to get one) until he needs it for the_ convenio especial_ - if it's available in Barcelona - I'm not sure that it is yet, but might be in a year from now.


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## michaelbr51

kalohi said:


> The number on your residence card is your tax number. This is also your NIE number.
> 
> You aren't eligible for a social security number (and access to state health care) unless you are working or until you have been resident here for a year.


Thanks kalohi & xabiachica for your reply. I do have NIE, and was told that NIE is used also for tax purpose, is the NIE the same as residence card or there's another residence card? For instance, if I come back from a travel abroad, I just show my NIE and passport at the Spanish immigration? The reason is my Spanish visa is already expired by the end of Jan/16, I don't need to get another Spanish visa abroad in order for me to come back, if my NIE is still valid, right?


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## snikpoh

michaelbr51 said:


> Thanks kalohi & xabiachica for your reply. I do have NIE, and was told that NIE is used also for tax purpose, is the NIE the same as residence card or there's another residence card? For instance, if I come back from a travel abroad, I just show my NIE and passport at the Spanish immigration? The reason is my Spanish visa is already expired by the end of Jan/16, I don't need to get another Spanish visa abroad in order for me to come back, if my NIE is still valid, right?


There is no such thing as an NIE card - just an A4, white sheet of paper. This is the certificate.

However, this number appears on a variety of other documents including your 'residencia' if you have one.

Your NIE has nothing to do with your right to enter Spain nor is it anything to do with visas or immigration in general.


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## kalohi

michaelbr51 said:


> Thanks kalohi & xabiachica for your reply. I do have NIE, and was told that NIE is used also for tax purpose, is the NIE the same as residence card or there's another residence card? For instance, if I come back from a travel abroad, I just show my NIE and passport at the Spanish immigration? The reason is my Spanish visa is already expired by the end of Jan/16, I don't need to get another Spanish visa abroad in order for me to come back, if my NIE is still valid, right?


I think you are calling your residency card a NIE (when it should be called a residency card) and this is making your question confusing. You do have an actual plastic card with your photo and fingerprint on it, don't you? That's a residency card. It's only the number found on it that is your NIE.

Assuming that you hold a valid residency card, you do not need another Spanish visa to get back into Spain if you travel abroad. You only need to show your passport and the residency card.


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## michaelbr51

kalohi said:


> I think you are calling your residency card a NIE (when it should be called a residency card) and this is making your question confusing. You do have an actual plastic card with your photo and fingerprint on it, don't you? That's a residency card. It's only the number found on it that is your NIE.
> 
> Assuming that you hold a valid residency card, you do not need another Spanish visa to get back into Spain if you travel abroad. You only need to show your passport and the residency card.


Thanks for your explanation, now it's clear for me, I got confused because everywhere I go they asked for my NIE/NIE card, so I thought it was NIE card, you're right, on the card it said "Permiso de residencia", has the NIE number at the bottom left side and my signature on bottom right side, but there's no finger print (they did ask me to finger print when I requested the card), so this must be the residence card. Thanks


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## Relyat

Although not free health care as stated in the thread title, as it has drifted somewhat I thought this may be of interest.

I recently accompanied someone in their journey to access the Convenio Especial. They are NOT on the register of foreigners, i.e.. do NOT have Residencia (whichever you understand or prefer).
They signed onto the Padron in Jan 2015 and that was enough.
A visit to the main office in Valencia armed with said Padron, Passport, NIE certificate. A form to fill in, a direct debit for 60 Euros per month and that was it ! A couple of weeks later and the SIP card arrived, we visited the local surgery and all was well.

I know that this is not the "right" way to do things, but it has worked out for her. The next thing is to get her to register.


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