# I cant see me ever going back to this !!



## Suenneil (Feb 17, 2009)

I read this article today and it makes me so glad I dont live in the UK anymore - but it makes me sad at the same time as my kids are still living their lives there - and I wish it were better for them and all the other people just trying to get on with their lives ....No matter how bad things are in Spain at the moment, I cant see myself ever going back to this ! ... and I cant imagine it will get any better ..... only worse.

I genuinely used to love the UK, I grew up feeling proud of where I was from, who I was, and how the World viewed the UK ..... that hasnt been the case now for a long long time ..... very sad 

The most violent country in Europe: Britain is also worse than South Africa and U.S. | Mail Online

Sue x


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

I agree Sue, and there is a sense of menace when you walk around the towns in the evening/night etc. The UK has almost become a lawless society these days, cos the government is so soft. However, the media, as usual exaggerate cos its not like that everywhere, but the danger of the exaggeration is it becomes a reality... talk about anything enough and it spreads and becomes a reality!

I have been here in the UK for nearly a week and its not a very pleasant place to be. When I get back I'm gonna write about my observations fully on here I think!?!

Jo xx


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## Suenneil (Feb 17, 2009)

jojo said:


> I agree Sue, and there is a sense of menace when you walk around the towns in the evening/night etc. The UK has almost become a lawless society these days, cos the government is so soft. However, the media, as usual exaggerate cos its not like that everywhere, but the danger of the exaggeration is it becomes a reality... talk about anything enough and it spreads and becomes a reality!
> 
> I have been here in the UK for nearly a week and its not a very pleasant place to be. When I get back I'm gonna write about my observations fully on here I think!?!
> 
> Jo xx


Hi Jo

I agree that the UK media has a nasty habit of exagerating! and looking at the bad - its rarely a balanced view! (look at the article yesterday about the heatwave for goodness sake!).....and sometimes this can lead to a self fulfilling prophecy !

I would be interested to read your first hand view of the UK as you saw it this past week ...... if you have the time I think many of us here would be interested!

Take care - Sue x


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## ChungyUK (Feb 27, 2008)

Yeah very disturbing article Suenneil. Yeah its unfortunately the case that you get in the UK and nothing is ever done to curb this problem. I for one would like to leave the UK one day and hopefully spend sometime away in Canada.

The biggest proble we have in the UK is the god damn little chavs who seem to get away with everything. I hate them so much because they give a s**t and have no respect for anyone but themselves. Things here are simply too expensive....everyday things in general are expensive in comparison to other countries. Petrol is the MAIN one that stands out, train tickets etc. I could go on but ill leave that for another time lol!


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

I think we may need to put things into a little perspective here 

A violent crime in the UK generally may be getting the crap kicked out of you on a Saturday night when you've been down the pub and drunk too much (although of course there are more serious crimes).

A violent crime in South Africa is more likely to be having your head blown off on your drive outside your house all for the sake of a mobile phone, or having your house broken into and seeing your wife and daughter gang raped in front of you just before you are stabbed to death.

Having had a fair amount of exposure to stories of SA life in the past, although the figures may or may not be right, I dont think you can really compare crime in SA to crime in the UK


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## James3214 (Jun 25, 2009)

Daily Mail eh?

Don't get too depressed. Most of us who have lived in different countries know that there are good and bad things in every country. We put up with the bad things to enjoy the good things. It just happens that one of the bad things about the UK is the deeply ingrained social problems. Saying that, it wouldn't stop me from going back to live in the UK again though.

I just surprised that all the 'Daily Mail' readers aren't locked in their bomb proof cellars with shot guns at the ready!


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## Suenneil (Feb 17, 2009)

James3214 said:


> Daily Mail eh?
> 
> Don't get too depressed. Most of us who have lived in different countries know that there are good and bad things in every country. We put up with the bad things to enjoy the good things. It just happens that one of the bad things about the UK is the deeply ingrained social problems. Saying that, it wouldn't stop me from going back to live in the UK again though.
> 
> I just surprised that all the 'Daily Mail' readers aren't locked in their bomb proof cellars with shot guns at the ready!


Hi James --- I agree that the Daily Mail isnt the most fair and balanced newspaper on the market! It isnt my daily read of choice! lol .... I read most of the papers online each day when Im researching etc ... so I just regularly come across articles on different subjects ... this one caught my eye today.
I thought about SA (another poster mentioned SA) when I read this actually, given some of the news that comes out of SA Im sure they have a point with the severity of certain violent crimes. However, a violent crime is violent crime and from a statistical point of view Im assuming some perameters were put in place to obtain the figures .... although even these may not be strictly correct!

At the end of the day it is just another indication as to how the UK is perceived - and the reality of life for a lot of people living there .... which is the real shame.


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## SunnySpain (Jul 30, 2008)

Strav made a good point

In Venezuela its almost common to have your child kidnapped for the ransom money and if you don't pay you literally don't ever see your child again

And believe me when I say this happens a lot and we know of a Spanish woman who's younger sister was kidnapped and they never saw her again

I also think that sometimes articles catch the eye of a certain type of person. For instance this article would appeal to an expat or someone wanting to be an expat

One could easily point to the example of the member of ETA who was convicted of murdering more than 20 people (with bombs mainly) and yet he was released within 2 years - a bad crime / criminal and a joke legal system to boot

Back to reality.

Dave 
:ranger:


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## Suenneil (Feb 17, 2009)

SunnySpain said:


> Strav made a good point
> 
> In Venezuela its almost common to have your child kidnapped for the ransom money and if you don't pay you literally don't ever see your child again
> 
> ...


Hi Dave ... always good to see you.

I think it caught my eye not because Im an expat - but because I have an interest in crime (in the best possible sense!) I was a Probation Officer in my previous UK life and crime figures / punishment / rehabilitation are sadly an interest!
But I take your point that in general that it may normally appeal to those already leaving the UK , or considering doing so .... or just giving people something else to fret about or whinge about!


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## SunnySpain (Jul 30, 2008)

Suenneil said:


> But I take your point that in general that it may normally appeal to those already leaving the UK , or considering doing so .... or just giving people something else to fret about or whinge about!



My point exactly and whats more it serves its purpose - to SELL newspapers

As does gossip about the Beckham's, Peter Andre or Susan Boyle


An interesting question however and one that I feel sure Sue will be interested in  might be - what do expats think about the reportedly large numbers of high profile criminals living on the Costa's ?

As apparently there is going to be another "most wanted" list published in the near future and I think they said it would actually be focusing on the CDS


Dave lane:


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## Suenneil (Feb 17, 2009)

SunnySpain said:


> My point exactly and whats more it serves its purpose - to SELL newspapers
> 
> As does gossip about the Beckham's, Peter Andre or Susan Boyle
> 
> ...


In a lot of ways Dave this "most wanted" campaign makes sense .... you mention large numbers of high profile criminals on the costa - but I suppose with a relatively small expat community the number of expat criminals in the midst constitutes a "high" proportion. However, I feel certain that the vast majority of high profile criminals from the UK are still in the UK ..... 

Being able to target the ones that are here works I suppose because its a smaller pond to be looking into ....

Any campaign that targets catching dangerous or high profile criminals, irrespective of where they reside, has to be a good thing.

I havent watched Crimewatch or similar programmes for years - but I guess each week they have a new list of those they want to apprehend - most of them dangerous to others, posing a high risk - and most likely still in the UK.

The campaign they have here is just another weapon in their armoury for tracking these people down .... and I applaud that.

Sue


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

Suenneil said:


> omes out of SA Im sure they have a point with the severity of certain violent crimes. However, a violent crime is violent crime and from a statistical point of view Im assuming some perameters were put in place to obtain the figures .... although even these may not be strictly correct!
> 
> At the end of the day it is just another indication as to how the UK is perceived - and the reality of life for a lot of people living there .... which is the real shame.


Fair enough, a violent crime is a violent crime ..... but any way you look at it the two scenarios I described to you are vastly different.

Tell you what ...... issue you with a challenge ....... post this in the SA section and tell them that crime in the UK is worse than in South Africa, and see what you come up with. Bit of research?


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## Suenneil (Feb 17, 2009)

Stravinsky said:


> Fair enough, a violent crime is a violent crime ..... but any way you look at it the two scenarios I described to you are vastly different.
> 
> Tell you what ...... issue you with a challenge ....... post this in the SA section and tell them that crime in the UK is worse than in South Africa, and see what you come up with. Bit of research?


lol .... dont tempt me - I enjoy researching! ..... I dont disagree with the point you were originally making Strav - and neither do I dispute that serious / violent crime in SA is probably a lot higher per capita than in the UK .... I havent re read the article, but may do later  but Im sure some of the stats were based on number of crimes to population numbers. Also "serious crime" should be divided into certain levels of seriousness ... for example Murder should sit seperately to other violent crime (GBH / Assault with intent etc) to make the figures more comparible.

If you seperate the levels of "seriousness" as applied in Courts/Legal Terms then perhaps we would have a much clearer picture - and quite possible a very different outcome in terms of where the most violent Country is !

lane:


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## crookesey (May 22, 2008)

Stravinsky said:


> I think we may need to put things into a little perspective here
> 
> A violent crime in the UK generally may be getting the crap kicked out of you on a Saturday night when you've been down the pub and drunk too much (although of course there are more serious crimes).
> 
> ...


Well Strav, in the past week there have been three seperate shooting incidents back here in Sheffield. Knife and gun murders are now common place, there are plenty of no go areas that used to be safe places.

The sink council estate 'post code' gangs often pose on u tube. The last one that I saw has two young teenagers (15'ish) holding machine guns, some had automatic hand guns, and the rest has axes, meat cleavers, Rambo knives etc. They organise battles with other like minded chavs from estates with different post codes.

The ethnic gangs are running riot, the Asians are at war with the Afro's for control of the drugs territories, and either will mow down anyone who gets in their way. These guys are are seriously dangerous, the Afro's are usually high on drugs and the Asians hate anyone who isn't Asian. 

You're completely out of touch Strav, parts of the UK are now as dangerous to be in as down town Beruit. Don't get me wrong, I don't see police officers patrolling Sheffield carrying machine guns, as I have in certain parts of Manchester. Come to think of it, I don't see police officers patrolling Sheffield persay.

So when you see the Guadia, Local and Municipal police out and about, think yourselves lucky, I'm thinking of starting a new craze called Spot The Cop.


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## Tallulah (Feb 16, 2009)

Thanks for the reality check guys - I am counting myself very lucky indeed being here. Especially for the sake of my children. I've been feeling rather down lately, missing my parents and sister back in the UK dreadfully - with all this talk of Jo going back and spending time there, the shopping LOL!!, it's made me realise that after not having stepped foot back there at all in four years now, it's time to take off the rose tinted glasses and realise that my "ideals" about the UK are non-existant and have not existed now for a couple of generations. OH suggested to me that I pop back for a while (if only to get it out of my system) but no way. I think I'll stay put and wait for everyone to come and see me here.

Tally.xx


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## crookesey (May 22, 2008)

crookesey said:


> Well Strav, in the past week there have been three seperate shooting incidents back here in Sheffield. Knife and gun murders are now common place, there are plenty of no go areas that used to be safe places.
> 
> The sink council estate 'post code' gangs often pose on u tube. The last one that I saw has two young teenagers (15'ish) holding machine guns, some had automatic hand guns, and the rest has axes, meat cleavers, Rambo knives etc. They organise battles with other like minded chavs from estates with different post codes.
> 
> ...


Sorry Strav, I wasn't up to date, one shot dead, three others injured last night, it's lovely to feel so safe.


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## XTreme (May 17, 2008)

I always think that the people who say they see no more crime or violence on the streets etc are probably dead right.

But it actually says more about where they live and the environment they're used to than anything else.

If you have the means to live in a better area and only generally deal with a "better class" of person....then you'll be oblivious to the rest of society.

I would suggest that those people really need to check out the environments where other people live.

Take a little walk through Toxteth, Brixton, Moss Side etc. If you think you can do it and come out unscathed, then go for it and prove me wrong.

In fact go to any major town and look beneath the surface of the glossy shopping malls etc. Cos you're going to find a very different Britain than what you're familiar with.

These tree hugging lefties always blame the media for their portrayal of the bad conditions in Britain.

The MEDIA is responsible!

Well I'll tell you something.....visit a cashpoint at midnight in any big city centre! 

Suddenly you hear noises behind you as you take out your cash!

And at that point the cold hard truth is going to hit you.......a Daily Mail reporter is now the _least_ of your worries.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

XTreme said:


> I always think that the people who say they see no more crime or violence on the streets etc are probably dead right.
> 
> But it actually says more about where they live and the environment they're used to than anything else.
> 
> ...


I agree to a point, but sadly you could say that about anywhere in the world, includin spain, there are areas of Madrid, Malaga..... you wouldnt feel safe in. 

What bothers me is the british media reporting these things and to the "young thugs" reading about it, it almost makes it seem alright, or "big" and "permitted" so they go and do it!

In my opinion, the UK is so bad these days due to frustration, dissatisfaction and above all, no decent punishments or laws. The UK is so soft and forgiving that its no big deal to be bad anymore!!!

Jo xxx


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## scharlack (Nov 21, 2008)

Suenneil said:


> I read this article today and it makes me so glad I dont live in the UK anymore - but it makes me sad at the same time as my kids are still living their lives there - and I wish it were better for them and all the other people just trying to get on with their lives ....No matter how bad things are in Spain at the moment, I cant see myself ever going back to this ! ... and I cant imagine it will get any better ..... only worse.
> 
> I genuinely used to love the UK, I grew up feeling proud of where I was from, who I was, and how the World viewed the UK ..... that hasnt been the case now for a long long time ..... very sad
> 
> ...



Hey Sue,

By reading the replies to this post I have no doubt that Britain has become more dangerous BUT it's still far from being anywhere close to S. America/Africa levels.

As far as the daily mail article, it is certainly exagerating but it is a good warning to the trends ...


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## crookesey (May 22, 2008)

XTreme said:


> I always think that the people who say they see no more crime or violence on the streets etc are probably dead right.
> 
> But it actually says more about where they live and the environment they're used to than anything else.
> 
> ...


We live in a really nice area but the thugs are able to travel. The wife and I were attacked a few years ago by 4 chavs and their Asian drug supplier when walking back home at 9,45 pm from from a lovely afternoon at some friend's house, albeit a little worse for wear.

The only thing that saved us from further violence was when king chav hit me as hard as he could on me ear, splitting it from top to bottom. The t**t didn't totally floor me and I got up and said "Is that all that you have got you you c**t", I faced up to the five of them and they ran off.

My son. his RAF pilot and police officer mates went out to find them the next day. I asked my son what happened, and all I got was "shut up Dad", strangely enough there were no more attacks.


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## XTreme (May 17, 2008)

jojo said:


> I agree to a point, but sadly you could say that about anywhere in the world, includin spain, there are areas of Madrid, Malaga..... you wouldnt feel safe in.


Big cities and certain Costa areas agreed!

But the overwhelming majority of traditional Spanish areas not ruined by immigrants are perfectly safe Jo.

Women and children can walk the streets at anytime here....cos everybody knows everybody....or is related to somebody.

The police are always patrolling (but have very little to do) and there is still a real fear of the gun happy Guardia!


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

XTreme said:


> Big cities and certain Costa areas agreed!
> 
> But the overwhelming majority of traditional Spanish areas not ruined by immigrants are perfectly safe Jo.
> 
> ...


The same applies n small villages etc in the UK tho. But I'm not arguing with you Xtreme, Spain and the Spanish people/kids on the whole have more respect for their community and other people than brits, they are brought up within an extended family with discipline and self worth, and of course a knowledge that if they do wrong theres the guardia waving their guns around!!!

Jo xx


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## SunnySpain (Jul 30, 2008)

XTreme said:


> Big cities and certain Costa areas agreed!
> 
> But the overwhelming majority of traditional Spanish areas not ruined by immigrants are perfectly safe Jo.
> 
> ...



I agree 100%, based on our experiences up North

As for the major cities and Southern costas, well thats a very different story indeed....as you said before and its not merely a coincidence that these places are full to the brim with expats from a variety of countries

Dave :ranger:


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## jkchawner (Dec 21, 2008)

Suenneil said:


> I read this article today and it makes me so glad I dont live in the UK anymore - but it makes me sad at the same time as my kids are still living their lives there - and I wish it were better for them and all the other people just trying to get on with their lives ....No matter how bad things are in Spain at the moment, I cant see myself ever going back to this ! ... and I cant imagine it will get any better ..... only worse.
> 
> I genuinely used to love the UK, I grew up feeling proud of where I was from, who I was, and how the World viewed the UK ..... that hasnt been the case now for a long long time ..... very sad
> 
> ...


as u may or may not no i live in nottingham which was renamed by the press as gun city 5 years ago. partly due to the marion bates shooting and a few others around the same time. its a sad fact of life now days the uk is fast becoming a no go area town centres pubs etc. i have had a knife pulled on me before just for asking youths to calm down in my local pub were my partner is the mangeress. dont get me wrong i could have gave the lad a quick slap and put him in his place any day of the week but when u have 6 inch of shiney stainless thrust at u it changes your mind quickly and im no chicken. one odf the reasons i along with lots of others whish to leave the uk is because of how kids are nowdays parents are as much if not more to blame for bringing them up like it in my eyes.


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## Tallulah (Feb 16, 2009)

SunnySpain said:


> I agree 100%, based on our experiences up North
> 
> As for the major cities and Southern costas, well thats a very different story indeed....as you said before and its not merely a coincidence that these places are full to the brim with expats from a variety of countries
> 
> Dave :ranger:


I don't think anyone should become laissez faire when it comes to personal safety though, or safeguarding their children. For example, I love to walk - I can walk for miles as a lone female quite happily with my dog. It drives my husband to distraction as he, of course, being a loving and cautious husband and father, would not want me to put myself in any danger. We're not in Utopia, wherever we are. In the UK for example, I would still walk alone (even though at one point it was a nightmare as we were living with the threat of a serial rapist in our area praying upon lone women walking with their dogs, often in broad daylight). At that point, I was armed (I won't tell you what with, as I don't want to get into trouble) but I was ******ed if I was going to give up the enjoyment that I had strolling with my dog for some sick opportunistic ******* to take that away from me. I think the difference between the UK feeling and here where I am now is that I walked with my eyes opened in the UK (and something in my hand) and in areas which were not completely isolated. Here, I walk through the woods, up hills and down vales, and I still keep my eyes open as old habits are hard to break, but I no longer carry a weopon and I'm not at Def Con 1 every time a person walks towards me on the same path, which I must add, is a very rare occurance - and when it does happen it's usually meeting with a smile and a buenos/buenas whenever the time might be. Bottom line, very different mindsight and comfort level, but not blindness in any case....cos you never know.

I would add however, that my OH's family asks me now not to walk through the woods alone - they know that even in this area times are changing, as they all have mass media exposure and even though it isn't this area, per se, they feel it might just be a matter of time. Reason being, of course, unlike in their youth, the bad news can come to you now with roads and car ownership being commonplace, unlike in their time when it was only for wealthy folk... We have had violence news from the nearby city, relating to domestic violence, rape, etc and so the TV brings everything closer...and it does leave one wondering how long our little piece of paradise will remain so. 

The thing about our previous life in the UK is though, that however freely the children seem to run around here and enjoy their youth for longer, my eyes are always on my three - and constantly looking over my shoulder. I will never take where I am for granted when it comes to our safety.

Having said all that, I think we're a long way off (hopefully never to reach it) the scenario where kids walk around with knives, where being pissed and creating havoc on the high street, attacking a stranger for a laugh, or punching someone's lights out accusing someone of jumping a supermarket queue, is a daily occurance. I talk with my parents back in the UK, obviously, and it's frightening how often they tell me of someone who's been randomly attacked/knifed in a place where I grew up and sure, there were fights, and people got hurt (sometimes badly, sometimes killed), but it didn't have the wild west feeling of today where it's become the norm, rather than the exception.

Tally.x


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## XTreme (May 17, 2008)

Word of advice to you dog walking ladies!

Get a Rottweiler....nobody will bother you. In fact you'll clear the streets!

Even more so in Spain......they're terrified of them....even to the point of climbing lamp posts or trees.

Doesn't matter if it's the biggest, softest Rottie on the planet.....people will just run for their lives!


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

jkchawner said:


> as u may or may not no i live in nottingham which was renamed by the press as gun city 5 years ago. partly due to the marion bates shooting and a few others around the same time. its a sad fact of life now days the uk is fast becoming a no go area town centres pubs etc. i have had a knife pulled on me before just for asking youths to calm down in my local pub were my partner is the mangeress. dont get me wrong i could have gave the lad a quick slap and put him in his place any day of the week but when u have 6 inch of shiney stainless thrust at u it changes your mind quickly and im no chicken. one odf the reasons i along with lots of others whish to leave the uk is because of how kids are nowdays parents are as much if not more to blame for bringing them up like it in my eyes.


Eh?? :confused2:
I just came back from another week in sunny Birmingham 
I found it was absolutely fantastic, and no sign of concern at all at night or during the day. Of course there are areas in Birmingham I wouldn't go, but having played over the last 20+ years in Birmingham Pool Leagues and going to some of the crappyest areas, I have never felt concern for my self.

I wouldn't for instance feel comfortable wandering around Chelmsley Wood at night, and I'm sure there are areas in all Cities the same.

But to make out that you fear for your life on the streets of the UK is nonsense


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## SteveBarbosa (Mar 17, 2009)

Another sensationalist story coming from err umm...the daily mail.

Sue, take it easy - it isnt that bad in the uk, well not yet anyway. Your kids I'm sure are ok and very safe.


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## Suenneil (Feb 17, 2009)

SteveBarbosa said:


> Another sensationalist story coming from err umm...the daily mail.
> 
> Sue, take it easy - it isnt that bad in the uk, well not yet anyway. Your kids I'm sure are ok and very safe.


Hi Steve ... honest, Im not a "sensationlist" person at all! but thanks for the reassurance re my kids .... I thought it was an interesting article and also felt pretty sure it would generate lots of discussion and comment - which is usually good for the old brain cells!

Have a good weekend!
Sue


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## SteveBarbosa (Mar 17, 2009)

Suenneil said:


> Hi Steve ... honest, Im not a "sensationlist" person at all! but thanks for the reassurance re my kids .... I thought it was an interesting article and also felt pretty sure it would generate lots of discussion and comment - which is usually good for the old brain cells!
> 
> Have a good weekend!
> Sue


Now if its about the uk weather then thats a different story altogether as its back to lows of 19c and cloudy again!


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## Suenneil (Feb 17, 2009)

SteveBarbosa said:


> Now if its about the uk weather then thats a different story altogether as its back to lows of 19c and cloudy again!


 Good job they put all the emergency services etc on ALERT earlier this week then!!


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## mickybob (Dec 31, 2008)

jojo said:


> I have been here in the UK for nearly a week and its not a very pleasant place to be. When I get back I'm gonna write about my observations fully on here I think!?!
> 
> Jo xx


I look forward to reading that Jo, for obviouse reasons.


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## Tallulah (Feb 16, 2009)

XTreme said:


> Word of advice to you dog walking ladies!
> 
> Get a Rottweiler....nobody will bother you. In fact you'll clear the streets!
> 
> ...


erm....well, I've got an overly large Golden Retriever - gorgeously soft but completely neurotic!! :crazy: People do ask if she bites if they want to pet her, but she'd just knock them flying as she's so big and heavy and lick them to death. Luckily the only thing we seem to have to worry about when walking round the woods is a stray bullet on hunting day  If that's all I've got to worry about really, then I count myself a lucky bunny.

Tally.xx


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## Guest (Jul 8, 2009)

I agree with Stravinsky and would like to add that a great many violent crimes in S. Africa (in fact, I think it's the majority) aren't reported or logged, especially as so many are rape and murder of poverty-stricken, homeless people and children who, officially, don't exist - they have no birth certificates, often no name, and scrape a living on rubbish heaps until they're raped, murdered and chucked into a mass grave.

I dislike the Daily Maul intensely - there's a nastiness, a wish to make people afraid, angry and miserable, which is far worse than the obvious shallowness. 

Incidentally, I hug trees (and chat to them) have done all my life, but I see no relevance between that fact and one's attitude to violent crime or choice of news medium. Oh, and I'm a socialist, too, which is great because I don't have to worry about financial crises, crunchy credit, or people nicking the dosh I haven't got.

If you've never hugged or talked with a tree, try it - you don't know what you're missing.


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## Suenneil (Feb 17, 2009)

Feyness said:


> I agree with Stravinsky and would like to add that a great many violent crimes in S. Africa (in fact, I think it's the majority) aren't reported or logged, especially as so many are rape and murder of poverty-stricken, homeless people and children who, officially, don't exist - they have no birth certificates, often no name, and scrape a living on rubbish heaps until they're raped, murdered and chucked into a mass grave.
> 
> I dislike the Daily Maul intensely - there's a nastiness, a wish to make people afraid, angry and miserable, which is far worse than the obvious shallowness.
> 
> ...


Think Ill give the tree hugging a miss today Feyness ..... it will dirty my lovely work blouse, plus I have more important things to do this morning like go and order my coffee and pitufo


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## Tallulah (Feb 16, 2009)

Suenneil said:


> Think Ill give the tree hugging a miss today Feyness ..... it will dirty my lovely work blouse, plus I have more important things to do this morning like go and order my coffee and pitufo



You go and order coffee and SMURFS???

Feyness - you keep hugging those trees :hippie:. I've just been outside, gathering lavender - couldn't hug it too tightly unfortunately because of the bees!


Tally.xx


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Suenneil said:


> Think Ill give the tree hugging a miss today Feyness ..... it will dirty my lovely work blouse, plus I have more important things to do this morning like go and order my coffee and pitufo


yes and my trees are all to thin to hug, plus I think they´ll be covered in bugs and creepy-crawlies!!  My son likes to climb them tho!!??

Jo xxx


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## milton43 (Oct 20, 2008)

jojo said:


> I agree Sue, and there is a sense of menace when you walk around the towns in the evening/night etc. The UK has almost become a lawless society these days, cos the government is so soft. However, the media, as usual exaggerate cos its not like that everywhere, but the danger of the exaggeration is it becomes a reality... talk about anything enough and it spreads and becomes a reality!
> 
> I have been here in the UK for nearly a week and its not a very pleasant place to be. When I get back I'm gonna write about my observations fully on here I think!?!
> 
> Jo xx[


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## milton43 (Oct 20, 2008)

lett me tell you it is and it is not the media i was mugged 7 30 sunday morning going to car boot sale needles to say i am more determind to move out of this country never to return


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

milton43 said:


> lett me tell you it is and it is not the media i was mugged 7 30 sunday morning going to car boot sale needles to say i am more determind to move out of this country never to return


I´m not just blaming the media for exaggerating, its also their almost "glorification" of how bad things are in the UK, they make it acceptable to those who seek attention and encourage that kind of behaviour!

Being mugged is grim and I´m sorry it happened to you, I hope they caught em!! Sadly, tho that happens in most countries and its a horrible crime, its so personal and thoughtless. If someone is really desparate for cash, for heavens sake rob a bank, dont hurt others or take other peoples hard earned possessions!!!!!

Jo xxx


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## mickybob (Dec 31, 2008)

jojo said:


> If someone is really desparate for cash, for heavens sake rob a bank, dont hurt others or take other peoples hard earned possessions!!!!!
> 
> Jo xxx


Sorry Jo, I usualy agree with a lot of what you say but this I cant. I cant think of something more frightening that being a work and some B*^&$"d comming in and putting a gun to your face screaming at you to give them the money not knowing if you are going home at the end of the day, or to hospital or worse. My sister-in-law worked in a bank in Northern Ireland, and she told me that when a branch gets robbed, the staff have to have counceling to get over it. Robbibg a bank, for the staff, is just like being mugged. Terifying.:focus:


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## milton43 (Oct 20, 2008)

*re*



jojo said:


> I´m not just blaming the media for exaggerating, its also their almost "glorification" of how bad things are in the UK, they make it acceptable to those who seek attention and encourage that kind of behaviour!
> 
> Being mugged is grim and I´m sorry it happened to you, I hope they caught em!! Sadly, tho that happens in most countries and its a horrible crime, its so personal and thoughtless. If someone is really desparate for cash, for heavens sake rob a bank, dont hurt others or take other peoples hard earned possessions!!!!!
> 
> Jo xxx


thank you jo for that it is just how i feel i has made me look hard at life could be a good lesson personal i have no family so for me finding a good comunnity is paramount hence i still look to residential mobile home site with this establised for poeple who are like minded


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## ♪♫♪♪♫☺ (Jul 6, 2009)

So the US has relinquished it's dubious accolade of "most violent in the industrialized world" to another country?! Wow, never thought I'd see that in my lifetime.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

mickybob said:


> Sorry Jo, I usualy agree with a lot of what you say but this I cant. I cant think of something more frightening that being a work and some B*^&$"d comming in and putting a gun to your face screaming at you to give them the money not knowing if you are going home at the end of the day, or to hospital or worse. My sister-in-law worked in a bank in Northern Ireland, and she told me that when a branch gets robbed, the staff have to have counceling to get over it. Robbibg a bank, for the staff, is just like being mugged. Terifying.:focus:



yes, I´m sorry, I worded that badly. I meant that (well actually if someone needs money they should damn well go out and earn it honestly!!!!!) I meant that they should do their stealling from some inanimate, annonymous company.... that sounds bad too...... oh you know what I mean!!! 

Jo xxx


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## KhwaamLap (Feb 29, 2008)

Eventually people will give up hoping that the police and government will do something and there will be a backlash. Watch for a surge in vigilante attacks (like the post above where his son and friends went back out after the scum) - at some point it will start to become organised and then Britain will be a war zone. 

The Government really have to take note and take back our towns a cities from the hoodlums - whatever they've been doing for the last 20 years or so isn't working. They should remember its easy to say sorry after the fact - so forget the PC crap and blag some violent crims.

They act soon enough if you don't pay your council tax or Tv license, that's for sure. Priorities completely up the swanny!

I the UK I lived in the counryside at it was praceful. However, I worked in London and I had friends in towns. I never felt safe walking out of a bar or club at midnight! I now live in Chiang Mai (Thailand) I feel absolutely safe meandering around at 3am half cut here - there are tuktuk drivers and other people wandering around too and not a sign of any violence or vandalism. 

If a kids started to write on a wall, someone would give him a clip around the ear - if he called to the police, they would tell him to p off and behave. No PC in Thailand, thank god.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Suenneil said:


> I read this article today and it makes me so glad I dont live in the UK anymore - but it makes me sad at the same time as my kids are still living their lives there - and I wish it were better for them and all the other people just trying to get on with their lives ....No matter how bad things are in Spain at the moment, I cant see myself ever going back to this ! ... and I cant imagine it will get any better ..... only worse.
> 
> I genuinely used to love the UK, I grew up feeling proud of where I was from, who I was, and how the World viewed the UK ..... that hasnt been the case now for a long long time ..... very sad
> 
> ...


I've just come back from a business trip to Denmark and Sweden -I attended a couple of Conferences -and I was struck by how orderly and community-minded everything seemed.
I was sitting in a square in Malmo and a group of teenagers appeared playing loud music from a boom box. A middle-aged man approached them and asked them to respect the comfort of others (presumably, as they switched it off).
If that had been the UK he might well have been assaulted.
Both are extremely expensive high-wage and high -tax societies but there does seem to be a real feeling of community and social responsibility. Welfare benefits are generous but a Danish lawyer colleague told me that there is very little abuse of the system.
I think our lack of social responsibility comes from a mixture of sixties 'me-ism' i.e. do whatever makes you feel good, down with all authority, added to the eighties consumer culture.
Good topic for debate there!!


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

XTreme said:


> Word of advice to you dog walking ladies!
> 
> Get a Rottweiler....nobody will bother you. In fact you'll clear the streets!
> 
> ...



Or a Rhodesian Ridgeback!!!
Mine is 54 kilos of muscle, not an ounce of fat on the little darling. Gentle and non-aggressive.......when not required to be!


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## Suenneil (Feb 17, 2009)

*Its not just the UK is it!!!*

Well, today I read that we shouldnt be feeding our kids ham sandwiches (link to news item below)

I think any research into cancer has to be a good thing, Ive lost close relatives myself to this disease .... but it still seems that everytime they announce some new evidence on the causes or possible causes its linked to some food or drink ...... now its ham and hot dogs etc! Now I dont know whether I should drink more or less red wine ... I cant remember these days if its good or bad for me ? or if chocolate is the same ... cos Im sure last year they told me to eat dark chocolate to reduce cholestrol ? or maybe I got that wrong ?

Its just getting so scarey! what to eat, what not to eat ? now should I be scared that my kids spent most of their school years taking ham sarnies in their pack up ? Will I be tortured with guilt waiting for them to become ill ? I hope not!! but then Ive eaten tons of ham in my lifetime so maybe Im destined for some bad years ahead myself!

God Im depressed ! 

Ham sandwich warning to parents - Yahoo! News UK

Sue x x x x


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## Chica (Mar 23, 2009)

Suenneil said:


> Well, today I read that we shouldnt be feeding our kids ham sandwiches (link to news item below)
> 
> I think any research into cancer has to be a good thing, Ive lost close relatives myself to this disease .... but it still seems that everytime they announce some new evidence on the causes or possible causes its linked to some food or drink ...... now its ham and hot dogs etc! Now I dont know whether I should drink more or less red wine ... I cant remember these days if its good or bad for me ? or if chocolate is the same ... cos Im sure last year they told me to eat dark chocolate to reduce cholestrol ? or maybe I got that wrong ?
> 
> ...


I'm sceptical about these food fads. It's just fashion...lol. I think everything in moderation is ok health wise. Be nice if I could stick to it tho'


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## the sarge (Mar 5, 2009)

*Montes de Malaga*



jojo said:


> I agree Sue, and there is a sense of menace when you walk around the towns in the evening/night etc. The UK has almost become a lawless society these days, cos the government is so soft. However, the media, as usual exaggerate cos its not like that everywhere, but the danger of the exaggeration is it becomes a reality... talk about anything enough and it spreads and becomes a reality!
> 
> I have been here in the UK for nearly a week and its not a very pleasant place to be. When I get back I'm gonna write about my observations fully on here I think!?!
> 
> Jo xx


Hi Jo Jo

Male 59 ready to retire, wife wants to stay in England but will move when things are sorted 5-10 years who knows I don’t understand a woman’s brain.

I Was in the Army lived in Cyprus have visited and stayed there since and was thinking of going there, but distance cost of flights, title deeds problem and now expensive houses, think of swapping 340 days sunshine in Cyprus for 300 days in Spain plus shorter distance, cheaper flights, cheaper houses, no title deeds issues!!!
To have two houses the Spanish one will have to be about £100,000. I have done great deal of Internet searching and think Malaga is the airport Cheap flights from Liverpool by Easy jet.
Inland is the Area, Montes de Malaga seems to fit the bill.

So Now the Questions
1.	If you had no mortgage to pay How much would you need to live on
2.	What is the climate like in the area Montes de Malaga as opposed to the coast
3.	Is Sky and Internet available in that area
4.	Is villa crime a problem in that area
Although I have not visited the area I know that I want to live in a warmer climate, a country house with some land seems to be affordable I will rent for a period to ensure that I am happy before purchasing.
Tips hints and advice please

Peter


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

the sarge said:


> Hi Jo Jo
> 
> Male 59 ready to retire, wife wants to stay in England but will move when things are sorted 5-10 years who knows I don’t understand a woman’s brain.
> 
> ...



1. 1000€ a month minimum to live reasonably comfortably
2. Its hotter in the summer, but colder in the winter than the costas, snow is not uncommon and I scraped ice off my car windscreen on several occasions during last winter (a shock to me too)
3. sky and internet isnt a problem, in the larger towns and villages its as easy as the UK, in the country/campo, theres usually a way, wifi, satelite etc
4. I've not come across villa crime at all or even read about it in the local papers??

Tip, rent dont buy, as you need to find somewhere you're totally happy with and that takes time and of course house prices are still falling here, Also you should be able to negotiate rentals at the mo cos its a renters market. Check internet connection etc, before you agree to rent (or you could end up with expensive connection costs on a rented place)

Thats all I can think of for now...!!!!  I'm sure others will add stuff 


Jo xx


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## the sarge (Mar 5, 2009)

Thanks Jo Jo I will wait for others to chip in dont think I will do it this year But want to be out of England by Aug next year only as it is my 60th then

Peter


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

the sarge said:


> Thanks Jo Jo I will wait for others to chip in dont think I will do it this year But want to be out of England by Aug next year only as it is my 60th then
> 
> Peter


I dont blame you, especially if next summer over there is as grim as this!! Mind you, its too hot here at the mo, hence my rather lethargic response for which I apologise. 

Jo xxx


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## Expat Ben (Jul 28, 2009)

the sarge said:


> Thanks Jo Jo I will wait for others to chip in dont think I will do it this year But want to be out of England by Aug next year only as it is my 60th then
> 
> Peter


Hello Peter,

I recommend you make your move before the summer as you can save a lot of money on your monthly rental payments. A good time to get a bargain is anytime between October and April.


I wish you all the best.

Ben


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## the sarge (Mar 5, 2009)

Thanks Ben will remember that.

Peter


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## Suenneil (Feb 17, 2009)

Hi Sarge

Sound advice so far .............. I would also add that you consider to plan at least one trip over in advance for a good look around areas and properties. Between Malaga airport and Gibraltar for example the differences between each Town are vast! and obviously it will depend on your own wants and needs. In addition there are slightly inland areas that a lot of people choose to settle - very different to the coast, but if its something you are considering then a visit is most definitely recommended.

Being here beforehand also gives you a chance to meet up with a couple of agents / owners ..... and dont be tempted to pay out any cash in advance of seeing a property! or meeting the person you are considering paying!

Im sure you know this already  but living here is completely different to being on holiday here  so visiting and looking through a different pair of eyes is a must! of course you can still check out the best beaches / restaurants / bars etc etc  but you will also need to know where the nearest Doctors / Health Centre / Hospitals / Supermarkets / Transport / Vets if you have pets etc etc are ....

Enjoy your research !!

Sue :ranger:


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## the sarge (Mar 5, 2009)

Suenneil said:


> Hi Sarge
> 
> Sound advice so far .............. I would also add that you consider to plan at least one trip over in advance for a good look around areas and properties. Between Malaga airport and Gibraltar for example the differences between each Town are vast! and obviously it will depend on your own wants and needs. In addition there are slightly inland areas that a lot of people choose to settle - very different to the coast, but if its something you are considering then a visit is most definitely recommended.
> 
> ...


Hi Sue
Yes, good positive advice so far, being an ex military man I probably plan too much, all your points are very valid and welcome.

I have probably lived abroad for over 12 years in total and am aware that living away from what one calls home is different than being on holiday, there are always times when the English way of life seems to be the best until you come home and realise that “it is what it is”. if you’re happy with that don’t move abroad, I have wide and various reasons for wanting a bit more sun on my back, including a more relaxed healthy outdoor way of living than is available in the UK for my retirement. Although I have a few years to do before the old age pension I should have enough to live on. The planning I have done for Cyprus will stand me in good stead for Spain I hope, even if the Tax breaks are not as good.

Peter


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## Suenneil (Feb 17, 2009)

the sarge said:


> Hi Sue
> Yes, good positive advice so far, being an ex military man I probably plan too much, all your points are very valid and welcome.
> 
> I have probably lived abroad for over 12 years in total and am aware that living away from what one calls home is different than being on holiday, there are always times when the English way of life seems to be the best until you come home and realise that “it is what it is”. if you’re happy with that don’t move abroad, I have wide and various reasons for wanting a bit more sun on my back, including a more relaxed healthy outdoor way of living than is available in the UK for my retirement. Although I have a few years to do before the old age pension I should have enough to live on. The planning I have done for Cyprus will stand me in good stead for Spain I hope, even if the Tax breaks are not as good.
> ...


Hi Peter

Forgive me!  Given your experiences of living abroad for so long Im obviously preaching to the well informed!!!  Sorry.

Anyway .... I suppose any new Country - no matter how many previous Countries you have lived in - is an adventure! and one that needs planning too ..... so best of luck with it all.

Sue


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## the sarge (Mar 5, 2009)

Suenneil said:


> Hi Peter
> 
> Forgive me!  Given your experiences of living abroad for so long Im obviously preaching to the well informed!!!  Sorry.
> 
> ...


Hi Sue
Reread my last post comes over a bit strong as "I know it all", 
So I must apologise to you, I lived abroad in an Army environment with all the support that I needed being provided. 
All I wanted was to say is that I have had that experience but this time I have to ensure that I do it as best as I can and achieve what I want, so all help is genuinely appreciated. 

Sorry If I offended you 
Peter


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## milton43 (Oct 20, 2008)

hi thought you might have taken cyprus for tax reasons i am supposing you have a milatary pension which is taken tax free and taxable income at 5 percent for more info on this i find belvin franks the best sourse this can be found on daily telegraph expats money guide the also cover tax in spain and portugal forgive me if you all ready know this


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## Calas felices (Nov 29, 2007)

Well there's lies, damn lies and the Daily Mail..

It only takes seconds to see the flaws in the article but only if you want to. One poster said 'Violent crime is violent crime everywhere - not if it's defined differently it isn't.

Lets just examine the article.

The figures, *compiled by the Tories,* - so no bias there then - are considered the most accurate and up-to-date available.

But criminologists say crime figures can be affected by many factors, including different criminal justice systems and *differences in how crime is reported and measured.*
New Home Secretary Alan Johnson is to make his first major speech on crime today

New Home Secretary Alan Johnson is to make his first major speech on crime today

*In Britain, an affray is considered a violent crime, while in other countries it will only be logged if a person is physically injured.*

There are also degrees of violence. While the UK ranks above South Africa for all violent crime, *South Africans suffer more than 20,000 murders each year - compared with Britain's 921 in 2007.
*

By all means make your point if you compare like with like but that wasn't what you wanted to do was it?


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## mike kelly (Aug 12, 2009)

SunnySpain said:


> One could easily point to the example of the member of ETA who was convicted of murdering more than 20 people (with bombs mainly) and yet he was released within 2 years - a bad crime / criminal and a joke legal system to boot


really? that seems incredible


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## Suenneil (Feb 17, 2009)

the sarge said:


> Hi Sue
> Reread my last post comes over a bit strong as "I know it all",
> So I must apologise to you, I lived abroad in an Army environment with all the support that I needed being provided.
> All I wanted was to say is that I have had that experience but this time I have to ensure that I do it as best as I can and achieve what I want, so all help is genuinely appreciated.
> ...


Hey Pete ! you didnt offend me honestly!!  We often say that its difficult to get the "tone" across in the written word! much easier when we are talking face to face ..... but trust me I took no offence at all !


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