# Remember This first of All - you Must Protect Your Own Hiney



## Hound Dog

There is this (as normal) mindless debate going on on on a couple of Lake Chapala fórums about personal security among foreigners settled there in retirement and, while I have been down here in Highland Chiapas, which might as well be on a different planet than Lake Chapala, for the past few months, a sojourn we make annually for a few moinths in the Winter, I thought some of you participants in this forum who are considering Mexico as a retirement haven, might like to hear a perspective from people who live in both the retirement colony at Chapala and the somewhat isolated and, in terms of demographics, Central American oriented colonial city of San Cristóbal from some who inhabit both places about half of each calendar year.

When we first moved to West Ajijic in the Chapala Municipality in 2001, one of our reasons for moving there, in addition to the community´s fabulous climate, was its tranquility and friendliness and the seeming lack of local crime but, over the years, Ajijic changed and petty crime such as burglaries and home assaults became more and more commonplace as ill-trained and poorly-controlled adolescent morons became more and more brazen in attempting home break-ins so we adjusted to the way things had become. In the early 2000s, we left our home at Lake Chapala and locked it down with no home sitter and no security system at all. Eight foot stone walls and barred Windows and doors but that was it. 

Then, a few years ago, the Chapala delegación of Ajijic took what I would charitably call a downward turn and petty and some serious crime became prevalent locally. We were there and saw this first hand. This was not amusing nor to be taken lightly.

Today, our home in Ajijic has eight foot stone walls topped by three feet of concertina wire hidden by beautiful vines of exquisite beauty and the interior of our courtyard is wired to a constantly monitored alarm system and an ear-splitting alarm that would make the Devil himself sh*t in his pants. Every door and window is barred and even, in some cases, doublé barred. 

Do not kid yourself. Towns change becoming better or worse over time and the quiet village of Ajijic went from a quiet pleasant lakeside village to a crap-pot. It is in no way the place we chose to live in 2001. On the other hand, Bogotá is looking nicer by the day.


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## Isla Verde

Hound Dog, do you feel safer now in Ajijic or San Cristóbal?


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## Hound Dog

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Isla Verde said:



Hound Dog, do you feel safer now in Ajijic or San Cristóbal?

Click to expand...

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Easy, Isla; San Cristóbal. Don´t let me be provocative, however, both are nice towns, as you know. Perhaps I am being naive but to simplify things, it seems to me that a cry for help in San Cristóbal is a call to arms for the whole neighborhood and a call for help in Ajijic is a call to hide under the mattress and pray for the culmination of nearby distress without their involvement . This is certainly an oversimplication of community values in each community and for that transgression I apologize.


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## makaloco

When I first moved here, La Paz felt like the US in the '50s compared to the big cities where I'd lived for the past several decades (Cairo, Boston). But I got over that notion three years later when someone tried to break in through my back door and window one morning while I was at Zumba class. My dog was just a few months old at the time and was probably standing with his frisbee in his mouth waiting to play. Whoever it was -- the police suspected neighborhood muchachos as opposed to pros -- didn't get in, but I reinforced the back security bars, installed a monitored alarm system, and my dog is bigger and scarier now. Overkill, maybe, but as a woman living alone, I'd just as soon err on the safe side. My hiney isn't what it once was, but I'm kinda attached to it.

Funniest part of the story was that afterwards a neighbor came by, looked around, and said, "But you don't have anything!!" Hopefully he spread the word.


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## Isla Verde

I live in a pretty safe small building in Mexico City (no doorman but you have to be buzzed in), but we have had a few thieves who got into the building somehow, though they never managed to break into any of the apartments. They tried to get into apartments on the first and second floors, but never went up to the third floor, where I live. I figure they wanted to be fairly near the entrance to the building to make a quick getaway. I did confront two of them one day who were obviously trying to get into a neighbor's place. I asked them what they were doing, and they mumbled some phony excuse and quickly left the premises!


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## lagoloo

In case Hound Dog hasn't noticed while the years have drifted by, the whole world has become more crime ridden than it was in the good old days when people left the keys in the ignition and the front door unlocked. Things have changed, everywhere. We deal with it as it is, not as we remember it was, or ought to be.
The world I grew up in didn't include road rage, school shootings, home invasions on a regular basis or any number of other unpleasant advances in society. However, that was then and this is NOW. My hiney is as well covered as I can reasonably make it, as a result.
If Bogota looks better at this point, there is no reason it won't change for the worse, is there?


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## GARYJ65

Isla Verde said:


> I live in a pretty safe small building in Mexico City (no doorman but you have to be buzzed in), but we have had a few thieves who got into the building somehow, though they never managed to break into any of the apartments. They tried to get into apartments on the first and second floors, but never went up to the third floor, where I live. I figure they wanted to be fairly near the entrance to the building to make a quick getaway. I did confront two of them one day who were obviously trying to get into a neighbor's place. I asked them what they were doing, and they mumbled some phony excuse and quickly left the premises!


Wow!
Did you know they were thieves?


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## Longford

Maybe this is a book to read:












> In light of recent concerns about the desperate measures taken by vigilantes and armed self defense groups in rural Mexico, this new book provides a timely effort to evaluate the constructive responses of Mexican society in the face of years of crime and violence, bringing together experts from the United States and Mexico to consider a variety of related issues.


Read more: Special Event: Book Launch, “Building Resilient Communities in Mexico: Civic Response to Crime and Violence” | Justice in Mexico


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## Hound Dog

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makaloco said:



When I first moved here, La Paz felt like the US in the '50s compared to the big cities where I'd lived for the past several decades (Cairo, Boston). But I got over that notion three years later when someone tried to break in through my back door and window one morning while I was at Zumba class. My dog was just a few months old at the time and was probably standing with his frisbee in his mouth waiting to play. Whoever it was -- the police suspected neighborhood muchachos as opposed to pros -- didn't get in, but I reinforced the back security bars, installed a monitored alarm system, and my dog is bigger and scarier now. Overkill, maybe, but as a woman living alone, I'd just as soon err on the safe side. My hiney isn't what it once was, but I'm kinda attached to it.

*Funniest part of the story was that afterwards a neighbor came by, looked around, and said, "But you don't have anything!!" *Hopefully he spread the word.[/QUOTE

Click to expand...

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makaloco said:


> ]
> 
> Ah, but you do have at least one thing, makaloco, and that is that constantly monitored alarm system which if as professionally managed in La Paz as are the alarm companies we utilize in our towns of Ajijic and San Cristóbal de Las Casas, is a godsend. Yes, those two subscriptions to central monitoring cost us about $750Pesos a month in the aggregate but that expenditure is warranted indeed and, in our case, a couple of years ago prevented our house in Ajijic from being ransacked by local thugs when the "hounds-of-hell" alarm went off as they were trying to pry open an alarmed door while we were out of town. Those guys were so freaked by that shrill alarm, they must have soiled their britches and were half way to Jocotepec before the alarm company representative and cops arrived at our residence a few minutes later.
> 
> This alarm, high Wall, concertina wire and barred windows and doors business (all of which we are grateful to have), disdained by some and embraced by others, has worked well for us in both of the áreas in which we reside. We have found, especially at Lake Chapala, that those residing on our street, which is relatively affluent for our poor barrio, who do not have alarm systems are the folks who suffer from burglaries and home invasions. After all, why would a thief with even a modicum of intelligence invade an alarm-wired and obviously secured house when there are many adjacent houses with no alarm systems and amateurish, easily compromised security features.
> 
> This reminds me of one of my favorite jokes.
> 
> These two guys were hiking in the deep forest one day when they rounded a large tree and came upon a highly irritated grizzly bear with her cub who became extremely and obviously irritated at their presence and immediately charged them with the clear intent of tearing them from limb-to-limb before, perhaps, dining upon their carcasses. Of course, these two fellows started running for their lives but after a few minutes, one hiker, who had been wearing hiking boots, kneeled down to discard the boots and put on a pair of tennis shoes. The other hiker was astonished at this act and shouted, "Are you nuts, you can´t outrun a grizzly bear!" to which the other hiker responded, "I don´t have to outrun the grizzly bear, I just have to outrun you."
> 
> By the way; when we first arrived at Lake Chapala in 2001, we had four dogs of whom three were giant mastiffs, two Bordeaux and one Neopolitan. Really scary creatures weighing about 130 pounds each and with reputations for silent but vicious attacks on intruders upon their walled domain and also, when they chose to bark, not a common occurence, they would frighten God himself. Well, they are all dead now but we gained a reputation as having really scary dogs and we still have five dogs who are relative pussy-cats but bark like maniacs at even pedestrians who cross our path too close to our gate. Dogs can be a great deterrent to potential intruders and, as long as we are capable of caring for them, they will always be our companions. To each his own.


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## diablita

From what I'm reading, I don't think I belong on this forum. You folks live a whole lot more ostentatiously here than I could imagine. I live in an old Infonavit community and inhabit a small, 2BR departamento. No out of the ordinary security measures other than bars on the windows and doors, just like all the other departamentos. I know most of my neighbors, have lived here for 16 years and have never had anything stolen or vandalized. Most folks from the almighty USA would probably consider my community a ghetto but I couldn't care less. But as one poster said, "To each his own".


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## citlali

Plenty of Mexicans get robbed not every Mexican lives in an Infonavit apartments. Some live in places that are splendid, it has nothing to do with the way people live in the USA. Actually most of he estates on the lake in Lake Chapala are used a few times a year and are owned by Mexicans.
By the way I know a woman who has 3 kids lives in a one room little shack , has nothing to steal. She was robbed. The thieves had to know her husband got paid on Saturday, they entered the place when the family was at the circus with the kids , found the money for the week and took it. No need to have a lot to be a target. They also poisonned their dog.


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## diablita

citlali said:


> Plenty of Mexicans get robbed not every Mexican lives in an Infonavit apartments. Some live in places that are splendid, it has nothing to do with the way people live in the USA. Actually most of he estates on the lake in Lake Chapala are used a few times a year and are owned by Mexicans.
> By the way I know a woman who has 3 kids lives in a one room little shack , has nothing to steal. She was robbed. The thieves had to know her husband got paid on Saturday, they entered the place when the family was at the circus with the kids , found the money for the week and took it. No need to have a lot to be a target. They also poisonned their dog.


So what does this have to do with what I wrote?


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## Hound Dog

diablita said:


> From what I'm reading, I don't think I belong on this forum. You folks live a whole lot more ostentatiously here than I could imagine. I live in an old Infonavit community and inhabit a small, 2BR departamento. No out of the ordinary security measures other than bars on the windows and doors, just like all the other departamentos. I know most of my neighbors, have lived here for 16 years and have never had anything stolen or vandalized. Most folks from the almighty USA would probably consider my community a ghetto but I couldn't care less. But as one poster said, "To each his own".


An interesting observation, diablita:

You say you "...couldn´t care less...." if "...Most folks from the almighty USA would probably consider my community a ghetto...." but you clearly care what they consider or you would not have responded to the poster you consider "ostentatious", especially in such an unpleasant manner using an adjective normally meant to be a pejorative expression of disapproval. 

This fórum is intended, as far as I can discern, to attract people of all classes and persuasions including you whether you live in an infonavit development or a mansión at the beach. 

Lighten up.


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## citlali

I would think that after 16 years in Mexico you would know that people in the"ghetto" , your workd not mine, get robbed as well. 
Maybe you do not have any problem where you live because all neighbors know each other so watch out for each other , which is a major deterrent,
We do not have a problem in San Cristobal where we all live on top of each other and have a problem in Jalisco where the properties are larger and neighbors cannot see in each other property, pretty simple.
Most thieves look for oportunities and will hit anyone anywhere if they can.


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## Isla Verde

GARYJ65 said:


> Wow!
> Did you know they were thieves?


I used my detect-a-thief super powers.


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## Isla Verde

diablita said:


> From what I'm reading, I don't think I belong on this forum. You folks live a whole lot more ostentatiously here than I could imagine. I live in an old Infonavit community and inhabit a small, 2BR departamento. No out of the ordinary security measures other than bars on the windows and doors, just like all the other departamentos. I know most of my neighbors, have lived here for 16 years and have never had anything stolen or vandalized. Most folks from the almighty USA would probably consider my community a ghetto but I couldn't care less. But as one poster said, "To each his own".


Live ostentatiously, moi? I live in what I refer to as the ugliest building on my street - no elevator, often not much water, a bit run-down (but with a great view from the roof) - in a very small one-bedroom apartment with the world's tiniest kitchen.


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## diablita

Isla Verde said:


> Live ostentatiously, moi? I live in what I refer to as the ugliest building on my street - no elevator, often not much water, a bit run-down (but with a great view from the roof) - in a very small one-bedroom apartment with the world's tiniest kitchen.


I apologize for the unwarranted generalization.


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## Isla Verde

diablita said:


> I apologize for the unwarranted generalization.


We accept your apology, diablita


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## conorkilleen

I live in a gated community in the Bosques. My neighbors a few doors down were robbed....inside job. Good friends of their maid I heard. Trust NO ONE. Here in Mexico you think you know someone until someone that knows that someone wants something that you have...all bets are off.

Thats why we don't have a nanny, maid, chauffeur, gardener, etc. I'll raise my own kids, drive myself, clean my house, cut my own grass and rake my own leaves thank you very much.


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## Isla Verde

conorkilleen said:


> I live in a gated community in the Bosques. My neighbors a few doors down were robbed....inside job. Good friends of their maid I heard. Trust NO ONE. Here in Mexico you think you know someone until someone that knows that someone wants something that you have...all bets are off.
> 
> Thats why we don't have a nanny, maid, chauffeur, gardener, etc. I'll raise my own kids, drive myself, clean my house, cut my own grass and rake my own leaves thank you very much.


Trust on one - that's a bit harsh, don't you think? Should I give up all of my Mexican friends, some of whom I've known for many years?


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## conorkilleen

Isla Verde said:


> Trust on one - that's a bit harsh, don't you think? Should I give up all of my Mexican friends, some of whom I've known for many years?


I don't think its harsh. If its your "inner circle" then its your decision. I'm not that naive to think that everyone has a good heart and wants to help you. Trust is something that is earned and not just given away to someone with a nice smile and is good at pushing a mop.


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## Isla Verde

conorkilleen said:


> I don't think its harsh. If its your "inner circle" then its your decision. I'm not that naive to think that everyone has a good heart and wants to help you. Trust is something that is earned and not just given away to someone with a nice smile and is good at pushing a mop.


None of my Mexican friends push mops for a living.


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## conorkilleen

Maybe we just have different backgrounds and don't share the same opinions. I don't see eye to eye with very many people regarding the trust thing. That may be one of my downfalls, but its also a deeply engrained self preservation feature of my being that has kept me from getting duped many times.

Just for the record, there is a difference between trusting someone and having faith in someone. Don't get them confused.


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## Isla Verde

conorkilleen said:


> Maybe we just have different backgrounds and don't share the same opinions. I don't see eye to eye with very many people regarding the trust thing. That may be one of my downfalls, but its also a deeply engrained self preservation feature of my being that has kept me from getting duped many times.


My background is growing up working class in Levittown, PA. What's yours? I think the trust thing has more to do with your personality and life experiences, rather than where you grew up.


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## conorkilleen

The trust thing has more to do with living in another country as a young adult as watching my back as well as watching the backs of my wife and kids. I do not pretend that everything is all roses and gumdrops here in Mexico....or the US for that matter. Self preservation is important to me and warrants the attitude and outlook...at least for myself.


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## Isla Verde

conorkilleen said:


> The trust thing has more to do with living in another country as a young adult as watching my back as well as watching the backs of my wife and kids. I do not pretend that everything is all roses and gumdrops here in Mexico....or the US for that matter. Self preservation is important to me and warrants the attitude and outlook...at least for myself.


I've been living in Mexico for over six years, after having spent many shorter periods of time here since 1966, so I feel almost as at home in Mexico as I do back in the States. I'm a single older woman, so the only person I have to look out for is myself. I've never thought that life here is, as you put, all roses and gumdrops, but neither have I felt the need to watch my back. I tend to trust people and situations till something happens to prove otherwise. I wish you well in your gated community in Bosques and may your wife and children (and you, of course) have a happy life.


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## conorkilleen

I actually don't like my neighbors. They look down on me because I do my own yard work and wash my own car. They thought my wife was my maid and almost directed her to start sweeping the leaves because "thats what your job is". She corrected them quickly and I also let them know where I stand on the subject as only an Irishman could. We get that all the time. I think we will be out of here in a year and move somewhere we fit in better.


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## Isla Verde

conorkilleen said:


> I actually don't like my neighbors. They look down on me because I do my own yard work and wash my own car. They thought my wife was my maid and almost directed her to start sweeping the leaves because "thats what your job is". She corrected them quickly and I also let them know where I stand on the subject as only an Irishman could. We get that all the time. I think we will be out of here in a year and move somewhere we fit in better.


Ignorant snobs! It doesn't sound like your kind of place at all. You'd probably like my neighborhood a lot more than the place where you're living now.


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## citlali

Frankly I do not see anything wrong with having nannies, maids or gardeners or whatever help you can afford.
I was working full time and travelling 80% of the time, I had help and had to trust them with the house. 
We had people from Guatemala, Puerto Ricans and Chinese and black and white Americans and no one ever took anything from us. 
I think a lot depends on the relationship you have with people working for you .If you expect them to steal they probably will. If you treat them right treat them with respect, tell them what you expect and hold them accountable, most people respond well.
Managing people can be a pain in the neck but I wil do it rather than spend my time on something I have no interest in doing.
I never was afraid something would disappear and if it had it would not have been the end of the world. They would have been gone and my life would have gone on. 

If you enjoy doing the garden or washing your car, more power to you just do it and hell with the neighbors.


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## Hound Dog

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conorkilleen said:



I actually don't like my neighbors. They look down on me because I do my own yard work and wash my own car. They thought my wife was my maid and almost directed her to start sweeping the leaves because "thats what your job is". She corrected them quickly and I also let them know where I stand on the subject as only an Irishman could. We get that all the time. I think we will be out of here in a year and move somewhere we fit in better.

Click to expand...

_CK:

Where, on earth are you going to find a more cosmopolitan place accepting of diverse values than massive Mexico City?

OK, here are some (10) thoughts:

Los Angeles
Paris
New York City
Chicago
Sao Paulo
Marseilles
San Francisco
London
Mérida
Ouagadougu

That´s it.


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## TundraGreen

conorkilleen said:


> I actually don't like my neighbors. They look down on me because I do my own yard work and wash my own car. They thought my wife was my maid and almost directed her to start sweeping the leaves because "thats what your job is". She corrected them quickly and I also let them know where I stand on the subject as only an Irishman could. We get that all the time. I think we will be out of here in a year and move somewhere we fit in better.


I am surprised that your being different in your behavior causes problems with your neighbors. I am pretty different than most of my Mexican friends and neighbors (atheist, vegan, no car) but I get along with all of them and they accept the differences. They may not understand, and we often have discussions about our differing life styles, but they have always been friendly discussions and I have never felt "looked down upon" for being different.


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## diablita

Isla Verde said:


> My background is growing up working class in Levittown, PA. What's yours? I think the trust thing has more to do with your personality and life experiences, rather than where you grew up.


My background is growing up in a working class family in central PA. I have a tendency to trust most folks and will continue to do so. What a ****ty life having to constantly worry that everyone was out to get what you have. I have loaned my neighbors thousands of pesos over the years. Most of the time they pay me back, sometimes they don't. Living among them and seeing how many barely survive, I don't worry about it. I'm just glad I'm able to help. Criticize and ridicule me all you want, but it sure beats living in some gated community.


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## citlali

I like you attitude Diablita but what makes you think that someone from a gated community would not help?


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## diablita

TundraGreen said:


> I am surprised that your being different in your behavior causes problems with your neighbors. I am pretty different than most of my Mexican friends and neighbors (atheist, vegan, no car) but I get along with all of them and they accept the differences. They may not understand, and we often have discussions about our differing life styles, but they have always been friendly discussions and I have never felt "looked down upon" for being different.


You sound a bit like me. At least the atheist and no car part. Couldn't handle the vegan life. One of my neighbors, a 51 year old widow with 3 grown kids, became one of my best friends. She was a staunch Catholic and had had a lot of bad breaks in her life. She used to tell me that god sent me here to help her and I would just smile and roll my eyes. She knew I was a non-believer. Sadly, she died suddenly several weeks ago. I'm glad I was able to make her short life a little brighter.


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## diablita

citlali said:


> I like you attitude Diablita but what makes you think that someone from a gated community would not help?


No offense, but how would you know if anyone needed help if you were not living among them and made them feel comfortable asking for it?


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## citlali

I do not know but I know for exemple that people living in a gated community are helping my cleaning lady and pay for her 3 kids to go to a private school. I think they found out about her through the teachers from the public school who identified her son as being very bright but of little means, 
I think people who want to help can find a way to do it even if they live in a gated community.


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## vantexan

TundraGreen said:


> I am surprised that your being different in your behavior causes problems with your neighbors. I am pretty different than most of my Mexican friends and neighbors (atheist, vegan, no car) but I get along with all of them and they accept the differences. They may not understand, and we often have discussions about our differing life styles, but they have always been friendly discussions and I have never felt "looked down upon" for being different.


Could it be that the U.S. holds "self reliance" in more esteem while in Latin America being a "patron" who can employ others for manual labor is seen as the ideal?


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## conorkilleen

diablita said:


> What a ****ty life having to constantly worry that everyone was out to get what you have.


Actually my life is pretty great. I don't spend 100% of my time thinking about people "taking what I have"...thats just silly. Lighten up, Francis.


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## vantexan

conorkilleen said:


> Lighten up, Francis.


Love that movie!


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## TundraGreen

vantexan said:


> Love that movie!


I had to google that quote. I missed that movie.


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## AlanMexicali

diablita said:


> My background is growing up in a working class family in central PA. I have a tendency to trust most folks and will continue to do so. What a ****ty life having to constantly worry that everyone was out to get what you have. I have loaned my neighbors thousands of pesos over the years. Most of the time they pay me back, sometimes they don't. Living among them and seeing how many barely survive, I don't worry about it. I'm just glad I'm able to help. Criticize and ridicule me all you want, but it sure beats living in some gated community.




My wife and I live well beyond your means it appears and have to think of us as a possible target one day [ you don´t have this problema ] in the big scheme of things and need to protect our lifelong accumulation of property and possessions being professionals and having very responsible jobs and being compensated accordingly.

We would be absolutly foolish to live in your enviorment.

We live in a gated, guarded privada.

I don´t know any neighbors and they don´t know me. That is the way everyone seems to like it here. A slight upperward nod when passing is all you need to do.

We have our good friends, friends and family to deal with and this is more than enough.


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## conorkilleen

Again everyone,,,just to clarify and you can stop your judging -My life and situation is different than probably 95% of yours. Extortion is rampant in Mexico...phone scams, kidnapping, false claims of kidnapping just to get you to pay a fake ransom, etc...the list goes on. I have 4 young children that I am protective of and would dies 10x for. We are in a strange country/city/culture and even though we feel comfortable here, my Spanish is fluent, and my wife if from Oaxaca, there are still many dangers that are different than what we were used to in the US. Its not that there is more danger, just a different breed.

For example: 3 weeks ago we had 1 straight week of "someone" calling our house and asking for someone that does not live there. We politely told them that they were mistaken and we hung up. 10 minutes later I got another call from a different number asking again.... the next 30+ calls were someone just breathing on the phone. We called TELMEX to see if we could get the call blocked and they said its not possible. Just don't answer the phone. What Telmex said is that the "game" is that the professional extortionists call your house and record the conversation and listen for voices in the background, identify any young children by name, schedules of when you are answering, and just getting general information about you/family while they try to chat you up asking for someone that does not live there. The irritating thing was that Telmex said that its super common and just to not answer the phone...WHAT? REALLY? Thats the answer? Thats just one example of what goes on here and warrants a little proactivity on my side to not be trusting of everyone.

"What a ****ty life having to constantly worry that everyone was out to get what you have"...uh...no. Its not only worrying about people wanting what I have,its people targeting to take advantage. Its being aware that here in Latin America,taking advantage of people is built into the culture. I've seen it in business and in personal engagements. Not all Latin Americans are like this. I have many close friends in Mexico, CA, and SA that yes I do trust, but it was earned over time...a very long time.

So before you judge me, sit up from your beach chair and take the Pina Colada out of your face and think about how well you don't know me.


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## Detailman

Very we'll put. Not that it matters but I think your stance is correct.

I say that based on many factors in life with only one of them being that my business associates for over 30 years were ex-RCMP officers that had spent decades in the service.

I consider myself a trusting person but I am not naive and I know many things to watch for to determine a person's true integrity. It has helped me, my family & a wide assortment of friends over the years.

There are many that are far too trusting and because bad things do not happen feel that their viewpoint is totally correct & that others are simply far too jaundiced. I would not try to change their outlook. It is true, to a certain extent, that viewpoint is molded by BOTH experiences in life AND knowledge. When and if something really bad happens their experience in life will have changed & their knowledge will be expanded.

I think it is better to practice caution, while still enjoying life to the full. 

All the best to you.

Sent from my iPhone using ExpatForum


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## surfrider

I have never felt myself in danger in any location I have live in. Having said that however, I did live lakeside when body parts of several people were discovered. I also lived in Michoacan where violence was suppose to be present. Now living in Bucerias I am feeling an increase of resentment or dislike from the Mexican community. I live in the "Mexican" part of the city that is out a ways from the angelo communities. 
My thoughts about this are that as more Americans and Canadians relocate here the more disruption in the Mexican communities from their "normal" life is occurring to their culture and I do not think that change is wanted or liked. Personally thought about moving back to the US are coming to the forefront. I am saddened by this realization for I really like Mexico and I had planed on staying here indefinitely. But I am not rushing or packing up and leaving any time soon. I have truly enjoyed Mexico and the Mexican communities, but as I said, lately I have felt a difference in acceptance.


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## Isla Verde

surfrider said:


> I have never felt myself in danger in any location I have live in. Having said that however, I did live lakeside when body parts of several people were discovered. I also lived in Michoacan where violence was suppose to be present. Now living in Bucerias I am feeling an increase of resentment or dislike from the Mexican community. I live in the "Mexican" part of the city that is out a ways from the angelo communities.
> My thoughts about this are that as more Americans and Canadians relocate here the more disruption in the Mexican communities from their "normal" life is occurring to their culture and I do not think that change is wanted or liked. Personally thought about moving back to the US are coming to the forefront. I am saddened by this realization for I really like Mexico and I had planed on staying here indefinitely. But I am not rushing or packing up and leaving any time soon. I have truly enjoyed Mexico and the Mexican communities, but as I said, lately I have felt a difference in acceptance.


Maybe you should consider moving to a part of Mexico whose way of life (and possibly cost of living) is not being disrupted by the arrival of large groups of American and Canadian expats.


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## AlanMexicali

surfrider said:


> I have never felt myself in danger in any location I have live in. Having said that however, I did live lakeside when body parts of several people were discovered. I also lived in Michoacan where violence was suppose to be present. Now living in Bucerias I am feeling an increase of resentment or dislike from the Mexican community. I live in the "Mexican" part of the city that is out a ways from the angelo communities.
> My thoughts about this are that as more Americans and Canadians relocate here the more disruption in the Mexican communities from their "normal" life is occurring to their culture and I do not think that change is wanted or liked. Personally thought about moving back to the US are coming to the forefront. I am saddened by this realization for I really like Mexico and I had planed on staying here indefinitely. But I am not rushing or packing up and leaving any time soon. I have truly enjoyed Mexico and the Mexican communities, but as I said, lately I have felt a difference in acceptance.


My Mexican American buddy spent 2 vactions in a row in PV. 2006/2007. His wife has a few cousins living there their whole lives. He said her cousins and their friends did actually resent the fact that foreigners were buying into their part of town. 

Not so much that the older residents were affected by the 3 year price jump of a nice 3 br. house there from $85,000 US to $130,000 US but NOW their children would not be living in the neigborhood because it was overpriced compared to other áreas. 

So it appears you are feeling exactly what he was told by the residents there 8 years ago.


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## conorkilleen

I think that my upper class neighbors look at me funny because they see a ****** living in that neighborhood and they are either 1)Threatened 2)Think that I should be Mr. Moneybags, or 3)Think that I am bringing a bad image to the 'hood by doing my own work.

Like Alan said, all I get is a head nod from my neighbors sometimes...sometimes. I am actually friends with my neighbors driver because we chat every Saturday while we are washing our cars. He lent me some soap the other day and I gave him some polish and let him use my buffer. Do I trust he will give me back my buffer? No, but I know where he spends 12 hours out of his day.

Life goes on and I don't need the love an affection of some inflated ego fresas. Thats not me and never will be.


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## surfrider

I have been feeling this for some time but the feeling has gotten stronger. I would not say that it is only PV and Lakeside or just San Miguel etc. I felt this - maybe even stronger living in an adobe house in the mountains outside of a "no american" little tiny town. I have just noticed that the resentment seems to becoming stronger. .. or maybe I am just more attuned to it.?


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## Isla Verde

conorkilleen said:


> I think that my upper class neighbors look at me funny because they see a ****** living in that neighborhood and they are either 1)Threatened 2)Think that I should be Mr. Moneybags, or 3)Think that I am bringing a bad image to the 'hood by doing my own work.
> 
> Like Alan said, all I get is a head nod from my neighbors sometimes...sometimes. I am actually friends with my neighbors driver because we chat every Saturday while we are washing our cars. He lent me some soap the other day and I gave him some polish and let him use my buffer. Do I trust he will give me back my buffer? No, but I know where he spends 12 hours out of his day.
> 
> Life goes on and I don't need the love an affection of some inflated ego fresas. Thats not me and never will be.


If you're not fond of the fresa mentality, why did you choose to move to a typical fresa neighborhood?


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## conorkilleen

Isla Verde said:


> If you're not fond of the fresa mentality, why did you choose to move to a typical fresa neighborhood?


Because I needed 3 things
-security
-3 bedrooms 
-a house with some space/provacy

I had 2 acres and a 2500 sq for house in the US...


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## Longford

Isla Verde said:


> ... not being disrupted by the arrival of large groups of ... Canadian expats.


Did someone mention _Canadians_?










:canada:


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## Hound Dog

This is a worldwide phenomenon and has nothing to do with the simple regional phenomenon of Mexican locals versus foreigners moving in and driving up property values. A few examples among many:

Hound Dog grew up on the Alabama coast in the 1940s and 50s when it was a virtually unknown land of endless, isolated and extraordinarily beautiful beaches fronting a crystal clear aquamarine Gulf of Mexico and the only structures there for miles in any direction were small, inexpensive fishing shacks on beachfront lands that could be purchased for peanuts. Beginning in the 1970s, the Canadians and Midwesterners began buying up beach properties there at exhorbitant prices forcing out the locals and, today, we are taiking wall-to-wall high rise condomiums as far as the eye can see largely populated by gullible snowbirds driving the price of properties through the roof.

When I first visited the Mediterranean coast of France in the 1960s, beach lands were relatively cheap there but then that área was "discovered" by Parisians, other Northern French people and an international group of wealthy folks seeking beach properties on the sea and willing to pay outrageous prices for properties fronting the Meditteranean. Locals were forced out for economic reasons, 

The splendid beacxh lands of Quintana Roo were virtually unknown until the Mexican government decided to develop the isolated lagoon and beachlands that became Cancun back in the 1970s. Today, these beachlands are entirely out of the reach of locals who now inhabit the slums of the sprawling service city of nearby beachless Cancun which has nothing to do with the crystal Caribbean waters and endless margaritas of the beach zone except for thankless jobs mopping up the vomit left by underaged American brats escaping parental supervisión and restrictive U.S. liquor laws.

In the last few decades, Californians riding a property boom, sold their houses in such places as Metropolitan San Francisco and L.A. and bought up homes in the then relatively impoverished nearby regions from the Pacific Northwest to Arizona and Nevada and this phenomenon drove up property prices in those regions far beyond anything the local economies warranted. This phenomenon eventually became dubbed the "Californification" of surrounding regions and I think I needn´t explain the meaning of that.

Get used to it here in Mexico. It has only just begun. The developers and their cohorts in the government have you by the gonads.


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## conorkilleen

Longford said:


> Did someone mention _Canadians_?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> :canada:


hahaha. Coto?


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## Longford

conorkilleen said:


> hahaha. Coto?


Yes, most Mexicans I know who are familiar with Canadian visitors consider them _cheap_, incredibly cheap. As in _codo_!


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## AlanMexicali

Longford said:


> Yes, most Mexicans I know who are familiar with Canadian visitors consider them _cheap_, incredibly cheap. As in _codo_!


Most Mexicans I know who are familiar with Maruchan say the same thing about it.

Example:

https://mx.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20110327203123AA4HvNv

Urban myths are abundant here also. "La realidad es que TODO lo anterior es un mito urbano producto de la ignorancia." "The reality is that ALL of the above is an urban myth, product of ignorance."

Diña had the best answer of all. :gossip:


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## TundraGreen

AlanMexicali said:


> Most Mexicans I know who are familiar with Maruchan say the same thing about it.
> 
> Example:
> 
> https://mx.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20110327203123AA4HvNv
> 
> Urban myths are abundant here also. "La realidad es que TODO lo anterior es un mito urbano producto de la ignorancia." "The reality is that ALL of the above is an urban myth, product of ignorance."
> 
> Diña had the best answer of all. :gossip:


I don't understand where this thread has gone. 

First of all, the idea that Canadians are cheap is a generalization. I have no idea if it is true of the statistically average Canadian, but I know that, like all generalizations, it tells you absolutely nothing about any particular Canadian.

Secondly, what does Maruchan have to do with the price of tea in China, or in this case the necessity for considering security? Is the point that cheap Canadians and plastic Maruchan are both urban myths?

What does any of this have to do with the topic of this thread, or have to do with anything for that matter?


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## AlanMexicali

TundraGreen said:


> Is the point that cheap Canadians and plastic Maruchan are both urban myths?


Yes and, as Diña pointed out, ignorance is the cause of such talk.


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## Longford

Well Maruchan might not be plastic, and I've never heard that speclulation before, but it's probably one of the most consumed food products in Mexico, not far behind one of the varieties of Sabritas. True, not urban myth. As for Canadians ... well, that's not much of a myth either ... in parts of the country where you find them in large numbers. That's been my observation and the observation of so many Mexicans who I've heard comment about it (people in the service industry). As for what all of this has to do with the theme of the discussion? The path of the discussion took a curve ... back at page 3. One could argue, suggest ... that comments about consumption of _Maruchan_ or the thrifty nature of many Canadians would cause conflict, depending upon the environment in which those topics are discussed. 

My favorite variety of Maruchan:










And, in remembrance of my many family members still living in Canada:


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## Hound Dog

Over the years we have lived in Ajijic we have heard a few restaurateurs complaining about "Codos" Canadians when it comes to tipping and I had one Ajijic restaurateur whose place I used to frequent complaining back when we frst arrived at Lake Chapala that he had tried a buffet Sunday and dropped it because he had developed a Canadian clientele that would nearly stuff themselves to the point of pending illness and then ask for a doggy bag for what they couldn´t eat at the table for "dear old Fido". According to him this incensed him so he discontinued the all-you-can-eat buffet. I have no idea if the tales he told me were true or not but I found him amusing for a time, especially after a few drinks so I kept returning to that restaurant for a while until I lost interest and we initiated our seasonal move to Chiapas.

Sincé my wife is from Paris where a "service compris" or mandatory tip of from 15% to 20% is automatically added on to most restaurant bills, I was aware that, in San Cristóbal de Las Casas, the French had gained a reputation for tight-fisted tips because they were used to generous tips being added automatically on the tab and not as an option but an obligation.

As it turns out, Chiapas is a popular destination among European tourists while Europeans in general are less attracted to the Lake Chapala área as a tourist destination which tends to attract U.S. and Canadian tourists instead generally speaking. U.S. and Canadian tourists view tips as an option and often base the amount of the tip on the quality of the food and service. Europeans, on the other hand are so used to the tip comprising an element of the overall charge at a restaurant, that they were often not tipping at all - not out of insensitivity but ignorance of the culture here in Mexico where tips - if any - are at the discretion of the diner.

Restaurateurs here in San Cristóbal - or at least those catering to tourists along the andadors near the tourist oriented central plaza -came up with a seeming solution to this problem. When you receive your check for a meal in one of those places, there will be a charge which will include an additional 10% for "propinas". 10% is considered a generous tip in Mexico almost anywhere but a restaurant lacks the option to actually collect the "propina" so restaurateurs have cleverly designed these "cuentas" in such a way as to inform the customer in the small print that (my translation) " The bill is actually so much but we have added on 10% as a tip for the wait staff which you may disregard at your discretion." I have no doubt in my mind that Europeans used to customs there, pay the full Price without scouring the bill for inaccuracies so, while I have no idea if this clever scheme is working for them, I´ll bet revenues are up. Now, whether the wait staff profits of not in all cases from this insertion of an optional charge for service is another question which I cannot answer.


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## HolyMole

*Another Bear Story*



Hound Dog said:


> This reminds me of one of my favorite jokes.
> 
> These two guys were hiking in the deep forest one day when they rounded a large tree and came upon a highly irritated grizzly bear with her cub who became extremely and obviously irritated at their presence and immediately charged them with the clear intent of tearing them from limb-to-limb before, perhaps, dining upon their carcasses. Of course, these two fellows started running for their lives but after a few minutes, one hiker, who had been wearing hiking boots, kneeled down to discard the boots and put on a pair of tennis shoes. The other hiker was astonished at this act and shouted, "Are you nuts, you can´t outrun a grizzly bear!" to which the other hiker responded, "I don´t have to outrun the grizzly bear, I just have to outrun you."
> 
> Interesting thread and a good joke.
> 
> In British Columbia folks ask:
> 
> How can you tell if the bear chasing you is a black bear or a grizzly?
> 
> Well, climb at tree. If the bear comes up after you, it's a black bear. If he knocks the tree down, it's a grizzly.


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