# costa blanca



## spanster (Oct 18, 2009)

hi everyone,

i am looking at moving out to spain in may/june 2010 with family including baby,
we are selling up and i just wondered what is the situation on vacancies in the building trade.

thankyou


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

spanster said:


> hi everyone,
> 
> i am looking at moving out to spain in may/june 2010 with family including baby,
> we are selling up and i just wondered what is the situation on vacancies in the building trade.
> ...


I would strongly recommend you dont sell up. Rent out and rent here maybe?? The building industry is not good here. There are millions of half built and unsold properties here due to the economic crisis, building companies going bust all over the country. 17% unemloyment and rising and thats spanish nationals! From what I can see, the only building work that is continuing here, is government generated to keep the builders etc in employment. At one point there were alot of polish builders working at Málaga airport, but I think alot of those have gone now (probably to the UK LOL) cos the Spanish didnt like their jobs being taken

Come over by all means, cos it is a nice place to bring up a child, but you'll need a steady and secure income. So dont burn your UK bridges, certainly not until you're sure you can survive over here!

Jo xxx


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

*Spain October 2009*

Hi Spanster,
I get the impression you haven't looked through some of the recent posts about the situation in Spain at the moment. Try looking at these...

http://www.expatforum.com/expats/spain-expat-forum-expats-living-spain/29832-spains-recession.html

http://www.expatforum.com/expats/spain-expat-forum-expats-living-spain/30737-hoping-move-spain.html

http://www.expatforum.com/expats/spain-expat-forum-expats-living-spain/30197-moving-spain.html


I'm afraid they are not optimistic if you don't have a job to go to and don't speak Spanish. Sorry,  but better to know now than when it's too late


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## spanster (Oct 18, 2009)

jojo said:


> I would strongly recommend you dont sell up. Rent out and rent here maybe?? The building industry is not good here. There are millions of half built and unsold properties here due to the economic crisis, building companies going bust all over the country. 17% unemloyment and rising and thats spanish nationals! From what I can see, the only building work that is continuing here, is government generated to keep the builders etc in employment. At one point there were alot of polish builders working at Málaga airport, but I think alot of those have gone now (probably to the UK LOL) cos the Spanish didnt like their jobs being taken
> 
> Come over by all means, cos it is a nice place to bring up a child, but you'll need a steady and secure income. So dont burn your UK bridges, certainly not until you're sure you can survive over here!
> 
> Jo xxx


 Thanks i appreciate it x


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

jojo said:


> I would strongly recommend you dont sell up. Rent out and rent here maybe?? The building industry is not good here. There are millions of half built and unsold properties here due to the economic crisis, building companies going bust all over the country. 17% unemloyment and rising and thats spanish nationals! From what I can see, the only building work that is continuing here, is government generated to keep the builders etc in employment. At one point there were alot of polish builders working at Málaga airport, but I think alot of those have gone now (probably to the UK LOL) cos the Spanish didnt like their jobs being taken
> 
> Come over by all means, cos it is a nice place to bring up a child, but you'll need a steady and secure income. So dont burn your UK bridges, certainly not until you're sure you can survive over here!
> 
> Jo xxx


As Jo says come over, but don't burn your bridges!
Look at the thread *Good news for those living in Spain!*


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## chickenkiev (Oct 8, 2009)

jojo said:


> I would strongly recommend you dont sell up. Rent out and rent here maybe?? The building industry is not good here. There are millions of half built and unsold properties here due to the economic crisis, building companies going bust all over the country. 17% unemloyment and rising and thats spanish nationals! From what I can see, the only building work that is continuing here, is government generated to keep the builders etc in employment. At one point there were alot of polish builders working at Málaga airport, but I think alot of those have gone now (probably to the UK LOL) cos the Spanish didnt like their jobs being taken
> 
> Come over by all means, cos it is a nice place to bring up a child, but you'll need a steady and secure income. So dont burn your UK bridges, certainly not until you're sure you can survive over here!
> 
> Jo xxx


I would start looking for a rental place now, the long term rentals are dropping like a stone due to the previous two months bad weather. By May/June next year they always seem to increase their prices for the summer months. Or if you are in the building game, consider a shell or half build, as the Developers cant move them at the moment.


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## Suenneil (Feb 17, 2009)

timetravel4u said:


> I would start looking for a rental place now, the long term rentals are dropping like a stone due to the previous two months bad weather. By May/June next year they always seem to increase their prices for the summer months. Or if you are in the building game, consider a shell or half build, as the Developers cant move them at the moment.


The only problem with looking for a rental property now, if they arent planning on coming over until 2010 is holding it .... landlords would expect rent up front to reserve a property for that length of time , and I wouldnt personally do that so far in advance.

Also long term rents are usually driven by the weather are they  if you are renting long term you are here all year round so the weather doesnt affect the price, and whereabouts in Spain are yoy the last 2 months here the weather has been fabulous! 
If they are planning to be living here by May 2010, then coming over for a visit and viewing around March/April time should be fine and there will be plenty of long terms rentals still out there.

Sue


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## chickenkiev (Oct 8, 2009)

*Next April is to late for a good deal*



Suenneil said:


> The only problem with looking for a rental property now, if they arent planning on coming over until 2010 is holding it .... landlords would expect rent up front to reserve a property for that length of time , and I wouldnt personally do that so far in advance.
> 
> Also long term rents are usually driven by the weather are they  if you are renting long term you are here all year round so the weather doesnt affect the price, and whereabouts in Spain are yoy the last 2 months here the weather has been fabulous!
> If they are planning to be living here by May 2010, then coming over for a visit and viewing around March/April time should be fine and there will be plenty of long terms rentals still out there.
> ...


I am in Pedreguer, which is the Costa Blanca, it rained non stop from the 
6th of September until the start of October, the start of October was very hit and miss, and if you would have seen the Costa Blanca newspapers you would have seen, some of the worst weather here for years. 
Yes the weather does affect the price, even on long term, this part of the Costa Blanca feeds of tourism as much as the rest of Spain, so after a hard summer, a very wet autumn, the economy, 18% unemployment, and the fact that this winter will be one of the hardest going for small businesses, a good time to come over is in the next few months, to look for long term rental, but not from an agent, go direct to the owner, and negotiate yourself, and just leave a deposit, there are many British expats, who would be happy, just to have a guarantee that someone is renting. Nearly all the estate agents here, are moving into long term rental, as the property market is not moving.
Take Gata Residencial estate, in Gata De Gorgos, there are 450 houses built around 5 or 6 years ago. They have now some 200+ up for rent, at prices lower than 1 year ago. However a lot choose at the begining of the year either to go for the summer rental or long term, they will not leave the summer rental option to long, as they will Not fill their allocation, leaving it until April, is to late in my opinion.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

timetravel4u said:


> ........ a good time to come over is in the next few months, to look for long term rental, but not from an agent, go direct to the owner, and negotiate yourself, and just leave a deposit, there are many British expats, who would be happy, just to have a guarantee that someone is renting. Nearly all the estate agents here, are moving into long term rental, as the property market is not moving.
> .



I´m not sure I'd reccomend that, unless you pay the rental for the whole period as well, or have a very watertight contract drawn up for both parties involved. Quite frankly I cant see why you need to rush at all!! When you choose to come over you'll find just as many properties at just the same prices, unless you're looking at holiday homes, which tend to charge extremely high prices thru the summer. Normal long term rentals dont change their prices much, altho they are still dropping, its a renters market!

Jo xxx


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

timetravel4u said:


> a good time to come over is in the next few months, to look for long term rental, but not from an agent, go direct to the owner, and negotiate yourself, and just leave a deposit, there are many British expats, who would be happy, just to have a guarantee that someone is renting.
> 
> 
> Yes, put the money in a pretty envelope, tie it with a nice pink bow and write 'Happy Christmas' on it.
> Seriously, that doesn't seem a very prudent way to do business. A good agent will not charge a tenant a 'finders fee' and will see that you have a proper legally-binding rental contract and, if appropriate, an inventory.


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## chickenkiev (Oct 8, 2009)

mrypg9 said:


> timetravel4u said:
> 
> 
> > a good time to come over is in the next few months, to look for long term rental, but not from an agent, go direct to the owner, and negotiate yourself, and just leave a deposit, there are many British expats, who would be happy, just to have a guarantee that someone is renting.
> ...


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

timetravel4u said:


> mrypg9 said:
> 
> 
> > All agents charge a "finders fee" whether it is passed on to the renter by way of double deposit, is a different matter. If you have been in Spain for a time, then you know most contracts here, are only as good as the agents, landlords and renters that enter into it. One point you are correct on is the money, but with officialy registered escrow agents now, you can leave a deposit that is safe, and secure for both parties, and costs very little, which is as close to a guarantee as possible. The only thing thats guaranteed in life is death.
> ...


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

timetravel4u said:


> mrypg9 said:
> 
> 
> > All agents charge a "finders fee" whether it is passed on to the renter by way of double deposit, is a different matter. If you have been in Spain for a time, then you know most contracts here, are only as good as the agents, landlords and renters that enter into it. One point you are correct on is the money, but with officialy registered escrow agents now, you can leave a deposit that is safe, and secure for both parties, and costs very little, which is as close to a guarantee as possible. The only thing thats guaranteed in life is death.
> ...


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## chickenkiev (Oct 8, 2009)

mrypg9 said:


> timetravel4u said:
> 
> 
> > All contracts are only as good as the intentions of the signers anywhere. Our landlord was charged one month's rent by the Agency we both used. For that money the Agent arranged for transfer of utility accounts and the drawing up of a contract of rental.
> ...


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

timetravel4u said:


> mrypg9 said:
> 
> 
> > All agents charge a "finders fee" whether it is passed on to the renter by way of double deposit, is a different matter. If you have been in Spain for a time, then you know most contracts here ??, are only as good as the agents, landlords and renters that enter into it. One point you are correct on is the money, but with officialy registered escrow agents now, you can leave a deposit that is safe, and secure for both parties, and costs very little, which is as close to a guarantee as possible. The only thing thats guaranteed in life is death.
> ...


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## chickenkiev (Oct 8, 2009)

Pesky Wesky said:


> timetravel4u said:
> 
> 
> > Hi timetravel4u,
> ...


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## anles (Feb 11, 2009)

timetravel4u said:


> mrypg9 said:
> 
> 
> > All agents charge a "finders fee" whether it is passed on to the renter by way of double deposit, is a different matter. If you have been in Spain for a time, then you know most contracts here, are only as good as the agents, landlords and renters that enter into it. One point you are correct on is the money, but with officialy registered escrow agents now, you can leave a deposit that is safe, and secure for both parties, and costs very little, which is as close to a guarantee as possible. The only thing thats guaranteed in life is death.
> ...


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

timetravel4u said:


> Pesky Wesky said:
> 
> 
> > A contract can be legal, but does not mean it will be adhered to by the landlord or renter, the standard contract that is used is purchased for about 18 euros from the post office. Yes you should read and understand it, however understanding it does not mean " you should be OK". As I am sure you are aware trying to get things done over here, when it comes to a complaint are sometimes a little frustrating. If the agent does not charge a finders fee, it is loaded on as a secound deposit, if they charge the landlord without it being added on to the deposit then fine.
> ...


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## chickenkiev (Oct 8, 2009)

Pesky Wesky said:


> timetravel4u said:
> 
> 
> > Well, I don't think you _did_ understand what I was saying. You said that
> ...


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## SteveHall (Oct 17, 2008)

Quote: In Spain short term lets (typically 11 months) have been devised to waive the Rental Act (LAU). The LAU stipulates that any tenant staying longer than a year in a property without the landlord’s opposition is entitled legally to stay in it for the next 4 years making a 
total of 5 years (long term let).

**This issue about 11 months is trotted out WRONGLY so often it is no wonder that people believe it. 

Here are THE FACTS 

"It is at these times that landlords suffer from not having received appropriate legal advice before the rental contract was ever signed. One of the most frequent errors that we find when reviewing rental contracts that have already been signed by our clients (without our advice, of course) is the duration of such contracts: 11 months. This duration had been agreed as the landlord had tried to avoid the rental contract being automatically extended up to 5 years. This is completely incorrect thinking. The key factor to avoid in the contract being automatically extended up to a maximum of 5 years is not that the initial duration of the contract is less than a year; the decisive point is that the property in question is different from the tenant's primary residence (irrespective of whether the contract states a duration greater than one year). Thus, it is vital that the address stated on the contract for notifications to the tenant is different to the one of the property rented. The tenant must also confirm that this other property is his/her primary residence. As a result of these type of mistakes, many clients are forced to accept an extension to their rental contracts despite the fact that the term indicated in these contracts was 11 months and because they have not stated that the property was for other purposes (sale, rent, own use, etc)." From eLs lawyers. 


Much of everything else you say is opinion. I will disagree with you, you will disagree with me. My opinion is (a) it would be folly to sell up in UK (b) that the OP will have zero problem finding a long term rent WHENEVER it suits them and (c) I would not dream of leaving a deposit with anybody for 7/8 months - agent or owner. Will the agent survive? Doubtful. Will the landlord rent to the next person who comes along and offers a long-term contract from today? Yes. 

Good luck, OP. It is and will continue to be a buyer's/tenant's market. That is the good news. Whether you can earn enough to cover even a reduced rental is IMHO doubtful.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

timetravel4u said:


> Pesky Wesky said:
> 
> 
> > If you think here and the UK are the same, when it comes legal or not legal then I think your wrong, the laws in Spain are very much different than the UK. Below is two differences of law, which are not in the UK
> ...


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## chickenkiev (Oct 8, 2009)

:frusty: Have a good nights sleep, and dont worry.

Some of just will not listen:deadhorse:

Regards

Kevin


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## Suenneil (Feb 17, 2009)

Well Im sorry but Im going to have a different opinion too  We have rented here for 5 years - 5 different properties (always moved due to work) and we have never paid a finders fee, we have been asked a couple of times, but not many, and we have always refused and moved to a different agent. We have rented directly from Agents, directly from owners, and at the moment directly from the Developer of the apartment we are in - no finders fee to any of them.

Also, when we have tried to plan ahead and source a property some months in advance of needing to move, it was impossible unless we were willing to leave deposits covering the entire period of time we were holding the property for - ie holding it for 4 months - pay 4 months rent to secure it .... we refused to do this too as its too costly, and not necessary ... the amount of long term rental stuff out there doesnt give any reason for someone to pay this much upfront and "reserve" something.

Im still confused on how the weather these past couple of months affects the long term rental market prices .... but we may have to agree to disagree on this one 

Sue 
:ranger:


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

anles said:


> timetravel4u said:
> 
> 
> > Here up North, reputable agents don't charge a finder's fee either for renting or or purchasing. The vendor pays the fee or the comission. 10% of the rent or between 2 and 3% for a sale.
> ...


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## Suenneil (Feb 17, 2009)

mrypg9 said:


> anles said:
> 
> 
> > timetravel4u said:
> ...


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Suenneil said:


> mrypg9 said:
> 
> 
> > anles said:
> ...


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## chickenkiev (Oct 8, 2009)

Suenneil said:


> mrypg9 said:
> 
> 
> > anles said:
> ...


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

chickenkiev said:


> Suenneil said:
> 
> 
> > mrypg9 said:
> ...


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## chickenkiev (Oct 8, 2009)

I like your new name chickenkiev BTW !!!! LOLOLOL

Jo xxx[/QUOTE]

Some chap in Gran Canaria called me this about 9 years ago, it stuck as most people think I run around like a headless chicken:rofl:


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## JBODEN (Jul 10, 2009)

jojo said:


> chickenkiev said:
> 
> 
> > Suenneil said:
> ...


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

JBODEN said:


> It seems to me that that would be logical. If a landlord comes to an agent and asks him to find a tenant, then _the agent is acting on behalf of the landlord_. If the agent tried to act for both sides then there would be a conflict of interest.
> In Poland it is common for estate agents to get commission from sales/lets from both parties. A conflict of interest, if there ever was one.


This is why there should be proper regulations and a governing body in place to serve all parties, especially as there is so much rental in Spain. Altho I guess it woulod mean an awful lot of landlords would suddenly have to pay tax on their rents AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHH!!!!


Jo xxx


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Have just returned from very pleasant lunch with landlord. As both food and wine were excellent -quite expensive restaurant -and he paid the bill, I did not feel it was the right time to ask for a reduction in the rent we pay....


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## Suenneil (Feb 17, 2009)

mrypg9 said:


> Have just returned from very pleasant lunch with landlord. As both food and wine were excellent -quite expensive restaurant -and he paid the bill, I did not feel it was the right time to ask for a reduction in the rent we pay....


oooooooooooooooooooooooh I think you missed an opportunity there M! lol  had he drunk some wine ???? you could have got him whilst he was under the influence! ah well it just means you will have to do it all over again!!

Glad you enjoyed the lunch though!

S xx


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Suenneil said:


> oooooooooooooooooooooooh I think you missed an opportunity there M! lol  had he drunk some wine ???? you could have got him whilst he was under the influence! ah well it just means you will have to do it all over again!!
> 
> Glad you enjoyed the lunch though!
> 
> S xx


Yes, we had a really good Rioja. He's a really nice man, I like him. I've invited him for coffee tomorrow and I'm on my own for a week so maybe I can conjure up that je ne sais quoi that seems to work with Spanish policemen
Seriously, we'll pay the rent we agreed for our contractual year but after that it's a reduction or I'm on the line to the Spanish equivalent of Pickfords.
Is there one, by the way? I mean a really good, reliable removals firm?
We made a big mistake when we moved our goods and chattels from the UK -we took the cheapest quote. The UK firm shipped the stuff to Dover where a Czech firm picked up the trailer and stored our things in a warehouse where it was cold and damp. They didn't deliver on the day they were supposed to and made some feeble excuse about the snow preventing them from driving the truck. Our clothes and bedding were wet when they eventually arrived. When the removal men brought our furniture in they cut wildly at wrapping with boxcutters and slashed a six inch cut in the arm of a leather sofa. They also 'lost' a few things.
So when we moved to Spain we used an expensive but very very good international company, AGS. The same guys who packed and loaded our stuff drove it here and unpacked it. I would recommend them - it's a French company with branches all over Europe. I don't think they do local removals though, just long-distance.


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## Suenneil (Feb 17, 2009)

mrypg9 said:


> Yes, we had a really good Rioja. He's a really nice man, I like him. I've invited him for coffee tomorrow and I'm on my own for a week so maybe I can conjure up that je ne sais quoi that seems to work with Spanish policemen
> Seriously, we'll pay the rent we agreed for our contractual year but after that it's a reduction or I'm on the line to the Spanish equivalent of Pickfords.
> Is there one, by the way? I mean a really good, reliable removals firm?
> We made a big mistake when we moved our goods and chattels from the UK -we took the cheapest quote. The UK firm shipped the stuff to Dover where a Czech firm picked up the trailer and stored our things in a warehouse where it was cold and damp. They didn't deliver on the day they were supposed to and made some feeble excuse about the snow preventing them from driving the truck. Our clothes and bedding were wet when they eventually arrived. When the removal men brought our furniture in they cut wildly at wrapping with boxcutters and slashed a six inch cut in the arm of a leather sofa. They also 'lost' a few things.
> So when we moved to Spain we used an expensive but very very good international company, AGS. The same guys who packed and loaded our stuff drove it here and unpacked it. I would recommend them - it's a French company with branches all over Europe. I don't think they do local removals though, just long-distance.


You go for it M! if it works on the police Im sure it will work on your landlord 

Everyone is haggling and negotiating rents at the moment , we have just signed a second 11 month contract with ours and got them down again! even though the rest of the 3 beds in our building are paying more than we are! its just that they didnt ask for the reduction .... its worth a try, particularly when you are a good tenant and they know it! we rent from the developer and they told us straight up that they liked having us in there because we were "nice people" .... 

There are plenty of large reputable removal firms on the coast, but I would hang on and see what your landlords does with the rent first 

Sue x


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Suenneil said:


> You go for it M! if it works on the police Im sure it will work on your landlord
> 
> Everyone is haggling and negotiating rents at the moment , we have just signed a second 11 month contract with ours and got them down again! even though the rest of the 3 beds in our building are paying more than we are! its just that they didnt ask for the reduction .... its worth a try, particularly when you are a good tenant and they know it! we rent from the developer and they told us straight up that they liked having us in there because we were "nice people" ....
> 
> ...


He's a very cautious kind of man inspite of having had four wives (he complained that women were an expensive hobby so I suggested he took up stamp collecting instead - he did not receive this suggestion with much enthusiasm) so he may well prefer to stick with us. When he came to pick me up for lunch he remarked how clean the house was....I didn't know whether to be pleased or insulted. But he has had bad experiences with previous tenants.
Yes, I'll take your advice and will sound him out nearer the date. But our contract ends on June 30th and that isn't a good time to move, is it?


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## Suenneil (Feb 17, 2009)

mrypg9 said:


> He's a very cautious kind of man inspite of having had four wives (he complained that women were an expensive hobby so I suggested he took up stamp collecting instead - he did not receive this suggestion with much enthusiasm) so he may well prefer to stick with us. When he came to pick me up for lunch he remarked how clean the house was....I didn't know whether to be pleased or insulted. But he has had bad experiences with previous tenants.
> Yes, I'll take your advice and will sound him out nearer the date. But our contract ends on June 30th and that isn't a good time to move, is it?


If you find yourself needing to find somewhere else then looking in April / May time should be ok with a view to starting a contract at the end of June ..... I still think landlords would prefer to get a guaranteed 11 month rental as opposed to an ad hoc weekly holiday rent at the moment ... and I dont see that changing in the near future.

S x


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Suenneil said:


> If you find yourself needing to find somewhere else then looking in April / May time should be ok with a view to starting a contract at the end of June ..... I still think landlords would prefer to get a guaranteed 11 month rental as opposed to an ad hoc weekly holiday rent at the moment ... and I dont see that changing in the near future.
> 
> S x


That's reassuring. I really want to stay in one place for a few years. The original plan was that my son would buy a house and rent it to us but they already have properties here which have decreased hugely in value so that's not on the cards for a while. We lived in their house for a month when we first came here but there wasn't a secure garden for Our Little Azor. Our current house is on two plots and has a very large garden, much of which is just lawn so it's ideal for him. His requirements play a major role in determining where we live!
We've moved three times in less than a year, twice in the three years before that and I HATE moving so I just want to put down roots for a while. I love it here -we live in a 'real' street, not a community, with Spanish neighbours.


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