# second thoughts



## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

I'm back in the UK for christmas at the mo and I am totally shocked and amazed at how much cheaper it is HERE!! HERE IN THE UK!! Most of the food I buy is a good 20% cheaper here that in Spain, Petrol is the same price here (exchange rate not helping). The climate is exactly the same today 13c, the UK house is lovely and warm with the central heating and carpets. I'm having serious doubts about spain! apart from the summer weather, which is in fact too hot, what is it over there I liked so much???? The streets are cleaner here, no stray dogs or cats, no rubbish laying around, roads are safer, marking and signs clearer, the laid back attitude I thought I liked is appearing more like laziness and disinterest. Help me, I think I want to come back to the UK

Jo


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## SteveHall (Oct 17, 2008)

Why should we "help"? How can we "help". 

You know - as you have been kind enough to help so many people - that it is entirely down to you/them as to where is best as per individual circumstances. All I would do is wish you the very best in whatever decision you make. I hope that if you decide that the UK is best for you and your family that you consider your time in Spain in a positive manner and that you do not feel you have lost or failed. It was yet another life experience. 

You know, when somebody asks that dumb question, "Where is the best place to live in Spain/Andalucia/Torremolinos?" or wherever, I often feel like jumping down their throat and asking, "Would I like Central London, Exmoor, Blackpool, the Shetlands or Liitle Hedgerow in the Sludge?" I am sure all these places have a lot to offer but it's what is good for YOU that matters. 

I realise more and more as I grow older, that what this "What is GOOD for you" is NOT where you are but who you are with. The wrong neighbours in Spain or Sweden absence from family and friends in Thailand or Tuvalu could make or break that place for you. 

Yes, it is very dull and dank here today but yesterday was gorgeous and I am sure tomorrow will be too. This is the main reason I do not live in Madrid - 9 meses de infierno y 3 meses de invierno - or was it the other way! The weather - too cold in winter and too hot in summer. Other than that it ticks just about all my boxes. I have spent the last three Christmases in different countries - Spain, Sweden, Thailand and ALL of them have something to offer both as places to "be" and as places to live. 

IF and it is a very big IF I could get the best of Sweden, Norway, Spain, India, Thailand, the UK then and pretty much every other country in the world then "yes" I probably would have found paradise. Realistically, I don't believe it is possible to bring together my history in Sweden, the natural beauty of Norway, my "home" in Spain, the culture of the East and ???? in the UK. Mmmmm let me think there has to be something good in the UK (LOL). * Until then, I try to make my "paradise" just wherever I am. I hope you can do too. 

¡Os deseo mucha suerte! 

*Of course, rugby league, Man Utd, Gillingham FC, the language, Yorkshire Puds, Birds Custard, Manchester Evening News - all "pulls" but at this moment nowhere near strong enough to encourage me to go back.


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## SunnySpain (Jul 30, 2008)

jojo said:


> I'm back in the UK for christmas at the mo and I am totally shocked and amazed at how much cheaper it is HERE!! HERE IN THE UK!! Most of the food I buy is a good 20% cheaper here that in Spain, I'm having serious doubts about spain! apart from the summer weather, which is in fact too hot, what is it over there I liked so much???? The streets are cleaner here, no stray dogs or cats, no rubbish laying around, roads are safer, marking and signs clearer, the laid back attitude I thought I liked is appearing more like laziness and disinterest. Help me, I think I want to come back to the UK
> 
> Jo


Cheaper you say, well actually I imagine it is with the exchange rate and all the sales. No shops here with 50-75% off the original price.

I agree with you - the summer is too hot in Andalucia. Its not particularly clean or indeed safe on the roads. In the North however, the bins are emptied and the streets get cleaned 6 nights a week and there are no stray cats and dogs either

So there are diferenced between the South and the North in Spain.

Maybe for you its a choice between Sun and the Wind & the Rain.

I was different you see, my reason for living in Spain was simply because I wanted something new and whereas we often feel a tad jealous of those in
the south - due to the weather. On the other hand, we have mountains, rivers, lakes and fantastic (natural) beaches.

IF, I ever moved back to the UK it would have to be for a very good reason
and despite my disappointment at most of what I have seen in the South,
Spain remains 1st choice for me and my family - but in the North in real Spain - lol

Cheers, Dave


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## XTreme (May 17, 2008)

I'll never go back!

I lived in the UK for 51 years.....was never happy there....and never felt like I belonged! Never had anything in common with other Brits, and always felt like a fish out of water. So did the wife!

We've been here 3 years now....and instantly we felt like we'd come home. Everything felt right and totally natural, which it never did in the UK.


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## Xose (Dec 10, 2008)

jojo said:


> I'm back in the UK for christmas at the mo and I am totally shocked and amazed at how much cheaper it is HERE!! HERE IN THE UK!! Most of the food I buy is a good 20% cheaper here that in Spain, Petrol is the same price here (exchange rate not helping). The climate is exactly the same today 13c, the UK house is lovely and warm with the central heating and carpets. I'm having serious doubts about spain! apart from the summer weather, which is in fact too hot, what is it over there I liked so much???? The streets are cleaner here, no stray dogs or cats, no rubbish laying around, roads are safer, marking and signs clearer, the laid back attitude I thought I liked is appearing more like laziness and disinterest. Help me, I think I want to come back to the UK
> 
> Jo


Jojo, looks like you've done a good job of convincing yourself... and best of luck to you if that is the case.

So far as prices go - I pay 16% less (on average) at my local petrol station, for my diesel than my inlaws pay in the supermarkets in the UK. I pay about 20% what they pay for water bills, and I have 3 kids and they are just the 2 of them. I pay 10% what they pay for house rates. I pay about 30% more for shopping, but I eat local foods, no UK exclusive products unless they arrive in a suitcase with visitors. I pay the same private for my dental care as I paid in the UK under the NHS (filling for filling, I kid you not) and checkups are free same as UK. The cleanup every 6 months is cheaper here than in the UK under NHS. I pay for my medicines about 30% what I paid in the UK as perscription charges went through the roof - and if I got panadol, I'd bin the prescription like everyone else and just buy the things - here, paracetamol and the like still exist in their true medicine form and not just the 200% plus on cost TV add marketing machine medicine s only., and so, MUCH cheaper.

As for repairs to cars etc., staying away from the main dealers of course - there is NO comparison. And the general workman things, when was the last time you paid €50 in the UK to get a themostat replaced on your boiler. I just have here. In the UK the plumber would think you should have a word with yourself talking sums like that.

So, costs aside then, if you're happy there, make the move because you don't want to wake up one day and wish you had when you could. But realise that not all Spain, like not all England, is the same. Prices , cultures, peoples, all very a great deal from one area of Iberia to another.

As for the lazy Spaniards, not sure what to say there. Other than you get all sorts everywhere. I had to run around like a blue arsed fly when I sold my property in the UK to move over here because the solicitor that did our conveyencing was a lazy sod and didn't do half the things required on a new build (local tree preservation checks, road adoption etc., etc.) and so I had to do all that myself to have on the deeds to be able to sell the place. Sort of thing that happens here a lot, apparently!

Good luck in whatever you decide to do.


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## Burriana Babs (Nov 22, 2007)

I would never even consider it. Spain is home and will continue to be. Good Luck.


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

jojo said:


> I'm back in the UK for christmas at the mo and I am totally shocked and amazed at how much cheaper it is HERE!! HERE IN THE UK!! Most of the food I buy is a good 20% cheaper here that in Spain, Petrol is the same price here (exchange rate not helping). The climate is exactly the same today 13c, the UK house is lovely and warm with the central heating and carpets. I'm having serious doubts about spain! apart from the summer weather, which is in fact too hot, what is it over there I liked so much???? The streets are cleaner here, no stray dogs or cats, no rubbish laying around, roads are safer, marking and signs clearer, the laid back attitude I thought I liked is appearing more like laziness and disinterest. Help me, I think I want to come back to the UK
> 
> Jo


Its strange you know I'm also in the Uk and feel completely different. Have spent a fortune since we got here, just got back from a meal for 8 which cost £220, in Spain could have done the same for €64

I didn't leave the UK in the first place to escape from anything though, i moved for a change of lifestlye which i presently enjoy, and looking forward to going back.

The weather may be 13 deg today, but I've been here since 13 Dec and its been bloody freezing, wet, cold, damp and grey most of the time!


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## chris(madrid) (Mar 23, 2008)

Odd - Just spent 2 weeks in the UK and despite the exchange rates and discounts - IT'S STILL more expensive for the things that interest me. But I've been away now so long - I am a foreigner in the UK anyway. 

Sure it was warm - but also DAMP. It's one reason why I love Madrid. Hot or Cold it's DRY air, so my lungs don't clog up. 2 weeks on the Spanish coast and I'm just as screwed as 2 weeks in a wintery Bournemouth.

What I miss about the UK is some folk. One or two old friends and my parents. But very little else.


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## SteveHall (Oct 17, 2008)

Just been for a walk and it was 16º+. 

What did I notice? Buses and trains running (NO chance in UK), a complete lack of drunken youths in streets, many Spaniards impecably dressed (no shellsuits!), large family groups enjoying themselves without threatening anybody else, Spanish bars open at normal prices with no "full menu @ 40 euros only" signs.

Town WAS quiet and the restauarants were quiet too. Chinese @5,95 menú, Indian @ 12 euros or English at 50 euros (including a GLASS (!)! of wine) were all struggling. On what planet do bar-owners think that a couple would want to pay approx 110 GBP for a meal cooked by a guy who was a Sheffield shelf-stacker or a Denbeigh dentist this time last year washed down with Spanish beer or a plonko from a carton? 

Busiest places? Internet cafés at 1 euro per hour ..... with most drinks at 1 euro too! 

¡Felices fiestas a todos!


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## XTreme (May 17, 2008)

I was out styling and profiling on the bike today! Couldn't have done that in Britain!

Actually went to Church as well....cos I visited the historic church and sanctuary in Caravaca de la Cruz.


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## griz616 (Sep 9, 2008)

jojo said:


> I'm back in the UK for christmas at the mo and I am totally shocked and amazed at how much cheaper it is HERE!! HERE IN THE UK!! Most of the food I buy is a good 20% cheaper here that in Spain, Petrol is the same price here (exchange rate not helping). The climate is exactly the same today 13c, the UK house is lovely and warm with the central heating and carpets. I'm having serious doubts about spain! apart from the summer weather, which is in fact too hot, what is it over there I liked so much???? The streets are cleaner here, no stray dogs or cats, no rubbish laying around, roads are safer, marking and signs clearer, the laid back attitude I thought I liked is appearing more like laziness and disinterest. Help me, I think I want to come back to the UK
> 
> Jo


where have you come to in the u.k, cos I find it damp, & expensive here. Last saturday we went out for a meal & a good drink £500+ for 4of us. same 4 of us do it in spain, for £120. griz


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## chris(madrid) (Mar 23, 2008)

XTreme said:


> I was out styling and profiling on the bike today! Couldn't have done that in Britain!


Yes you could - Oh I see! - you don't do cold/wet  - Always was part of my UK Xmas routine. New year run was often postponed due to snow - odd really.

Oh I was out too - but really should not have gone - ended up coughing too much onto the inside of the visor.

So back to the grind today - happy days dealing with the merry seasonal Power Cuts!.


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## XTreme (May 17, 2008)

chris(madrid) said:


> Yes you could - Oh I see! - you don't do cold/wet


Well that's the luxury of having a motorcycle built by those inscrutable Nips Chris!
The damn things just start every day.....so we can pick and choose when we want to ride. 

However, if you're one of those deluded people who have a tractor that's been assembled by NASCAR obsessed hillbillys from a trailer park, you just got to grab the opportunity to ride on one of the few days it decides to clatter into life.


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## chris(madrid) (Mar 23, 2008)

XTreme said:


> However, if you're one of those deluded people who have a tractor that's been assembled by NASCAR obsessed hillbillys from a trailer park, you just got to grab the opportunity to ride on one of the few days it decides to clatter into life.


What? - Guzzis, Ducatis and laverdas - Oh and Benellis? - For everyday use - I have a car you see. The Harley thing is all new to me - You mean folk don't ride them everyday? I haven't had a Jappo (well not a bike) since I passed my test!


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

griz616 said:


> where have you come to in the u.k, cos I find it damp, & expensive here. Last saturday we went out for a meal & a good drink £500+ for 4of us. same 4 of us do it in spain, for £120. griz


I'm in Worthing, West Sussex. Yes, it is still expensive eating out in the UK, we went out to lunch the other day and it was probably double what we would have paid in spain. But the supermarkets here are definately a lot cheaper in the UK than before we left last February and I would say that the Spanish supermarkets (mercadona and Carrefour) are definately more expensive than when we first arrived in Spain. It seems prices have swapped - I can only talk about the stuff I buy, which isnt necessarily representative of everything, but it was a bit of a shock to me!

I think my original post was a bit of a "knee-jerk" reaction, but its giving me some food for thought. I'm back to Spain on sunday and will hopefully settle back into things there and find all the things I loved about it - I'm sure I will. Possibly my thoughts are also affected by the fact that my OH loves the UK and works here 80% of the time. He would love us to come back here and has mayb tried to make things seem better here????

Jo x


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## SunnySpain (Jul 30, 2008)

Hiya Jo,

I was thinking about your original post and maybe you could rent for 9 months in the South and then go somewhere different come the extremely HOT months

Surely your kids are not at school during the summer and therefore it would give you all an opportunity to sample something different.

I have met many an expat that live near to Malaga and come the summer they head to the North to escape the excessive heat. Another alternative might be to spend 3 months in Tenerife between July and September.

Just a thought


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## chris(madrid) (Mar 23, 2008)

jojo said:


> Possibly my thoughts are also affected by the fact that my OH loves the UK and works here 80% of the time. He would love us to come back here and has mayb tried to make things seem better here???? Jo x


I'm sure it would be cheaper if you were all in on place anyway! - Frankly I'd not like to be in your position, Jo - I've experienced a commercial separation (work & home/wife separate) and I'd not like to repeat it.


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## SteveHall (Oct 17, 2008)

I agree - not wanting to get into your "domestics" but I have spent toooooo long on the road not to be aware of the risks. That has been the death knell for a number of my relationships over the years. A relationship has to be VERY strong to work when you only get together 2on2off, every other weekend or whatever. Two expat friends recently separated - he'd been working on the rigs of Nigeria whilst she had been working her way through his finances. The end was perhaps inevitable. Sad! 

You have also written recently that their are issues at school, that it is too hot in summer/too cold in winter and that you are only renting, so I think you may have serious thinking to do over the next few weeks - good luck!


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## mycal44 (Dec 27, 2008)

Hello we have booked a months vacation in the costa del sol region of spain and i am curious to know the cost of basic grocerys and the cost of having a lunch and evening meal out now and again also as in canada can you purchace a inexpensive cell phone with pre paid minutes any other basic info would be apprecated . regards Michael


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## SteveHall (Oct 17, 2008)

You can get a menú del dia (3 courses + drink) from anything from 6 euros to about 20 (usually 7-12) A set meal can cost you top dollar, especially in Marbella, but there are plenty of places where you will get a good a la carte meal for no more than 15 euros. Eating out by European standards is cheap and alcohol is very cheap.


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## crookesey (May 22, 2008)

I think that it's all about comfort zones, I haven't seen any fat drunken yobs wearing shell suits over Christmas because I know where to go to avoid them. I spent my time in The Peak District National Park around Chatsworth, Bakewell and Hathersage, it was mainly cold but sunny so I layered up and thoroughly enjoyed it.

Had I been in Spain I would have opted for somewhere like Benalmadena Pueblo, I have never seen a shell suit there in summer so I would have felt confident that none would be on show at Christmas. A Christmas day morning beach walk from say Calahonda to La Cala would have been nice to.

As for prices, the half price turkey that I bought from Tesco on Christmas Eve morning didn't go anywhere in compensating me for the £450.00 gas bill that I received yesterday, I can't wait for the electricity bill. I'm currently paying around 99 pence per litre for diesel and doing circa 40 mpg over 150 miles per week so I don't think that I would save much in Spain. Spanish supermarket booze is cheaper than in the UK as are none imported food products so I would think that Spain still has the edge over the UK.

It has been officially declared this morning that 5 people per week are killed due to knife crime in the UK, how does this compare with Spain? Are Spanish school teachers terrified of their pupils? I think not.

Just a quick question for SteveHall, if EastEnders is supposed to be a true reflection of every day life in the UK, why isn't it full of Manchester United supporters?


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## chris(madrid) (Mar 23, 2008)

crookesey said:


> Are Spanish school teachers terrified of their pupils? I think not.


Erm - I think you may find that NOT to be a true version of reality. 

Spanish TV gets reports often enough of Teachers leaving jobs due to violence. Not helped by the fact that the students parents often join in. 

Does depend WHERE though. But similarly I doubt the teachers at my old UK school fear much for their lives either.


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## SteveHall (Oct 17, 2008)

crookesey said:


> Just a quick question for SteveHall, if EastEnders is supposed to be a true reflection of every day life in the UK, why isn't it full of Manchester United supporters?


Classic line!!!  Actually I moved to Salford Quays so I could walk to the games as the 2 hours in a care for the 10 miles from Stockport spolit my day. 

Are you still interested in La Fustera? If so please PM me


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

crookesey said:


> As for prices, the half price turkey that I bought from Tesco on Christmas Eve morning didn't go anywhere in compensating me for the £450.00 gas bill that I received yesterday, I can't wait for the electricity bill. I'm currently paying around 99 pence per litre for diesel and doing circa 40 mpg over 150 miles per week so I don't think that I would save much in Spain. Spanish supermarket booze is cheaper than in the UK as are none imported food products so I would think that Spain still has the edge over the UK.


As it stands at the moment, unleaded petrol here in Spain is dearer than the UK and diesel is slightly cheaper. My electricity bill here, due to the cold weather we've had recently was 176 euros for a month, then there's the wood for the fire which is working out about 40 euros a month. We dont have gas, but I think thats still cheaper in Spain. 

Booze and ciggies are definately cheaper in spain, but food is NOT CHEAPER in Spain anymore - even non imported stuff - meat and veg in the street markets are cheaper than the supermarkets - but the same applies in the UK. I went to our local street market in Worthing when I was there for christmas and the street market prices in the UK are cheaper than street market prices in Spain. Imported stuff like coke, diet coke, fanta, baked beans etc are cheaper in UK, I certainly noticed on my visit that the prices of these things has dropped since I moved to Spain. But even spanish processed foods have gone up - Mercadonas own brand is dearer than comparable own brand stuff in Tescos.

Having arrived back from my trip to the UK tho, I do love Spain and want to stay here - BUT, it is no longer cheap here. My OH has worked out that our outgoings have risen by over 30% in the last 3 months - because of the increased costs here and the exchange rate and the interest on our savings has plummeted. The only good thing is that we have a tracker mortgage in the UK. 

Anyway, we're about to re-negotiate our rent - which apparently a lot of folk are doing here and we're looking at ways to save money - if this fails, we'll be going back - we have to!!

Jo


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## chris(madrid) (Mar 23, 2008)

I think many folk without Income in Euros that covers their daily needs will be heading back, Jo. It's basic finance - and totally understandable. And tbh - I think it still has to get a bit worse before it starts recovering. Electricity will rise by about 3,5% in 2009. Gas I've not seen yet.

Official figures suggest that property prices are not dropping anywhere near as fast as (say) the UK either. About 6.5% so far. But a HUGE drop could well happen early 2010 in "used" properties. 

It will be interesting to see if the increased number of SPANISH passport holders envisaged through the change to Spanish law (regarding citizenship for "Spaniards" this far denied a passport due to enforced exile of grandparents) props prices up. There are an estimated 500,000 and some are bound to leave Cuba/Argentina etc for Spain.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

chris(madrid) said:


> It will be interesting to see if the increased number of SPANISH passport holders envisaged through the change to Spanish law (regarding citizenship for "Spaniards" this far denied a passport due to enforced exile of grandparents) props prices up. There are an estimated 500,000 and some are bound to leave Cuba/Argentina etc for Spain.



Have you got anymore info on this? or anyone got any thoughts ? ... the impact it will have on jobs, life etc???

Jo


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## SteveHall (Oct 17, 2008)

I was talking to an Argentinian cleaner yesterday and she is really struggling and thinking of going back to the Argentine. She has two university degrees - one the equivalent of M.Sc and in 18 months has not a contract and a few hours of work which which she regards as digno she has to quote her "Being cleaning expats' toilets". I got her 8 hours teaching next week (to cover for a Spaniard who wanted a whole week puente and was prepared to sell her lessons off at 15 euros an hour so as not to lose her class) You would have thought she'd won the lottery. She says she could get a "good" job back in Córdoba, Argentina, that she would be much better off and, basically, regrets bitterly coming here. 

So, just where will these "new" españoles work? Inetersting that Málaga last week abandoned it's lista gris of work which nobody wanted - farm work, sea-hands etc. This is all turning into a horrible mess!


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Its not a pretty picture here at the moment thats for sure. I guess/hope that when the summer arrives, things will at least "look" better. I cant imagine whats going to happen to the tourist industry this year - one of Spains major industries. So with rising cost of living, mass unemployment and an influx of "new" Espanoles arriving........???

I was talking to some friends who have lived here for 7 years last night and they were saying that for the first time since they've been here, they've noticed the usually upbeat and happy local Spanish are totally beaten and depressed by everything thats happening, not surprisingly.

Jo


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## SunnySpain (Jul 30, 2008)

chris(madrid) said:


> I think many folk without Income in Euros that covers their daily needs will be heading back, Jo. Electricity will rise by about 3,5% in 2009. Gas I've not seen yet.
> 
> Official figures suggest that property prices are not dropping anywhere near as fast as (say) the UK either. About 6.5% so far. But a HUGE drop could well happen early 2010 in "used" properties.
> 
> It will be interesting to see if the increased number of SPANISH passport holders envisaged through the change to Spanish law (regarding citizenship for "Spaniards" this far denied a passport due to enforced exile of grandparents) props prices up. There are an estimated 500,000 and some are bound to leave Cuba/Argentina etc for Spain.



Yes, all very true and it will certainly be interesting to see the outcome.
Our elecricity bill was 100 Euros for 2 months, but our Gas bill was 180 Euros.

Property prices are going down in most regions of Spain (but not all) and whilst there may be bargains to be had in parts of Andalucia right now, will they find it just as easy to sell when they want to do so (and for what price) ?

I totally agree with the decision to allow the 500,000 the right to Spanish citizenship, but how many will actually come and how of those will want to stay once they get here and realise its not the Utopia they had hoped for ?

As Jo and Chris point out, Spain is no longer the cheap option for expats, many
will return and others will just find somewhere else thats cheaper E.g. Portugal

Property prices will need to drop a lot more before we are tempted into making a purchase. In much of the North of Spain, property is more expensive than in most parts of the UK, which to many people, might come as a shock - 

Question is, will the value of "the Euro" overtake that of "the Pound" ?


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## owdoggy (Jul 23, 2008)

Hells teeth! this all makes depressing reading but in true Doggy......... er .......was going to say "style" there but maybe not eh .......... bloody mindedness me & the boss are coming over there come what may and if it all collapses around our ears then so be it but it won't be for the want of trying. And anyway, it's been a while since we've done anything daft


Doggy


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

owdoggy said:


> Hells teeth! this all makes depressing reading but in true Doggy......... er .......was going to say "style" there but maybe not eh .......... bloody mindedness me & the boss are coming over there come what may and if it all collapses around our ears then so be it but it won't be for the want of trying. And anyway, it's been a while since we've done anything daft
> 
> 
> Doggy


Yeah, I'm sorry doggy, I am a misery at the moment. I think its lotsa things with me, not only the gloomy economic crisis, but it was nice to see my old UK home and my older daughters. I didnt think I'd miss any of em much, but....!!

Things are definately not good here. however, this isnt a dress rehearsal (I dont think lol!!!!??) and if you dont try then you'll always regret it and who knows??? My one regret is that we didnt do this sooner. It seems those that have been successful over here are the ones that came out pre-2005 in general and if we'de come out sooner, my kids may have intergrated better and my OH may have been able to start his business here. We're not giving up yet and are carefully looking into all options and possibilities, cos essentially it is a truly wonderful place to live

Jo xx


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## owdoggy (Jul 23, 2008)

jojo said:


> Yeah, I'm sorry doggy, I am a misery at the moment. I think its lotsa things with me, not only the gloomy economic crisis, but it was nice to see my old UK home and my older daughters. I didnt think I'd miss any of em much, but....!!
> 
> Things are definately not good here. however, this isnt a dress rehearsal (I dont think lol!!!!??) and if you dont try then you'll always regret it and who knows??? My one regret is that we didnt do this sooner. It seems those that have been successful over here are the ones that came out pre-2005 in general and if we'de come out sooner, my kids may have intergrated better and my OH may have been able to start his business here. We're not giving up yet and are carefully looking into all options and possibilities, cos essentially it is a truly wonderful place to live
> 
> Jo xx


I hope you get sorted Jo. Chin up & remember, if it wasn't for the downs the ups wouldn't be as good(Philosophy from Doggy??? ........ that doesn't happen very often)
That last bit says it all for Mrs Doggy & mesel, mind you, you must admit ........... our timing stinks



Doggy


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## Burriana Babs (Nov 22, 2007)

Well financial crises or not moving here was the best thing we ever did. We just go with the flow and adjust to the financial situation just as we would have to do anywhere else. We buy Spanish so our costs stay down and we do not lose any quality. I still say this is the best place to live.


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## griz616 (Sep 9, 2008)

*2nd thoughts*



jojo said:


> Yeah, I'm sorry doggy, I am a misery at the moment. I think its lotsa things with me, not only the gloomy economic crisis, but it was nice to see my old UK home and my older daughters. I didnt think I'd miss any of em much, but....!!
> 
> Things are definately not good here. however, this isnt a dress rehearsal (I dont think lol!!!!??) and if you dont try then you'll always regret it and who knows??? My one regret is that we didnt do this sooner. It seems those that have been successful over here are the ones that came out pre-2005 in general and if we'de come out sooner, my kids may have intergrated better and my OH may have been able to start his business here. We're not giving up yet and are carefully looking into all options and possibilities, cos essentially it is a truly wonderful place to live
> 
> Jo xx


Hi jojo
very sorry to see you so down, When joined the forum, you were the life and soul of the forum, as you know I joined the forum to try to find a property swap, as my wife & I are wanting to live in spain. One of the things I was wondering, is if you could get paid from the local english newspapers for writing articles as you seem to have a way of keeping up with what is going on in the area. Perhaps you could get involved in the what's on section or something like that. It may take your mind off things, and perhaps put a few sheckles in the coffers.
one other point have you got a shop called LIDL near you I saw one when last in malaga area, this is one of the shops wich I find have good prices along with good quality products, try them. Hope you decide to stay! The england you saw for a holiday break is like looking through rose coloured glasses, liveing here full time, is very depressing, ask one who knows. regards griz


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

griz616 said:


> Hi jojo
> very sorry to see you so down, When joined the forum, you were the life and soul of the forum, as you know I joined the forum to try to find a property swap, as my wife & I are wanting to live in spain. One of the things I was wondering, is if you could get paid from the local english newspapers for writing articles as you seem to have a way of keeping up with what is going on in the area. Perhaps you could get involved in the what's on section or something like that. It may take your mind off things, and perhaps put a few sheckles in the coffers.
> one other point have you got a shop called LIDL near you I saw one when last in malaga area, this is one of the shops wich I find have good prices along with good quality products, try them. Hope you decide to stay! The england you saw for a holiday break is like looking through rose coloured glasses, liveing here full time, is very depressing, ask one who knows. regards griz


thats really sweet - thank you and I'm taking on board what you've said!!! Since I posted this thread I'm back in Spain and yes, it is lovely and I really want to stay here, I've been doing a "pros and cons" list and the "pros" are winning, so I'm hoping the money saving plans will happen!!?? 

On a lighter note, the people who live over the road from me have recently aquired a new pet - a pig! Now, I'm easy going and live and let live...... BUT, have any of you heard how much noise pigs make??? The damn thing squeals and grunts very loudly all day and night - it sounds like someones being murdered!! and of course, it sets the neighbourhood dogs off. So I'm now thinking, rather than ask my landlord for a rent reduction, we should look into moving!!!?? Failing that........... Bacon anyone???

Jo xx


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## griz616 (Sep 9, 2008)

*2nd thoughts*



jojo said:


> thats really sweet - thank you and I'm taking on board what you've said!!! Since I posted this thread I'm back in Spain and yes, it is lovely and I really want to stay here, I've been doing a "pros and cons" list and the "pros" are winning, so I'm hoping the money saving plans will happen!!??
> 
> On a lighter note, the people who live over the road from me have recently aquired a new pet - a pig! Now, I'm easy going and live and let live...... BUT, have any of you heard how much noise pigs make??? The damn thing squeals and grunts very loudly all day and night - it sounds like someones being murdered!! and of course, it sets the neighbourhood dogs off. So I'm now thinking, rather than ask my landlord for a rent reduction, we should look into moving!!!?? Failing that........... Bacon anyone???
> 
> Jo xx


suckling pig sounds great, is your BBQ big enough?
I am trying to get a list of LIDL shops in spain, to help any body out there, but when I spoke to the main office in u.k the only help they coul give me is the web site: www.lidl.es problem is it is in a foreign language ha. ha. but seriously it may help you. maybe someone out there can get into it, regards griz.:


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## SunnySpain (Jul 30, 2008)

jojo said:


> Since I posted this thread I'm back in Spain and yes, it is lovely and I really want to stay here, I've been doing a "pros and cons" list and the "pros" are winning, so I'm hoping the money saving plans will happen!!??
> 
> So I'm now thinking, rather than ask my landlord for a rent reduction, we should look into moving!!!?? Failing that........... Bacon anyone???
> 
> Jo xx


Hiya Jo,

We have just negotiated a 50 Euros a month rental reduction, which I think is fair, but saying that I see the rentals have reduced a lot more in parts of Andalucia and maybe you can find a place with more adequate heating for a better price 

Dave


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## chris(madrid) (Mar 23, 2008)

jojo said:


> BUT, have any of you heard how much noise pigs make??? The damn thing squeals and grunts very loudly all day and night - it sounds like someones being murdered!!


Wait until the "matanza" - when it literally is murdered (sorry I mean Butchered) - BOY do they squeal then. It is of course a great excuse for a street party. You could always join in the fun Jo - Get some geese or peacocks. Or are you a "townie"?

LIDL main office in the UK will know squat - especially as it's a German chain. LIDL are just about everywhere. We have at least 2 in a 10mile radius and we're WAY out in the sticks. They are AGGRESSIVELY attempting to expand btw.


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## willh (Nov 11, 2008)

I lived in spain for almost 18 years, i went to school over there, then college and eventually malaga uni. I love spain and it will always have a place in my heart especially as my parents and brother still live there....But all that said, i have now been back in the uk for 2 years, i have a good job earning more than double what i did in spain (and before anyone says "but the cost of living is so expensive" i have factored that into the equation!!), more friends than in spain, more of a social life and am happier than i have ever been. i was in spain for christmas which was amazing due to being with my family, but apart from that i was bored out of my skull. i suddenly realised that during winter in spain there is nothing to do whatsoever. the people are sullen and dull without sun, and regardless of the fact that i speak like a native, i still get the sense that the spanairds hate us over there! although i was there for 2/3rds of my life i will never call it home and would never move back there for love nor money! expats always slate the uk, but for me its home.


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## SunnySpain (Jul 30, 2008)

willh said:


> I lived in spain for almost 18 years, i went to school over there, then college and eventually malaga uni. I love spain and it will always have a place in my heart especially as my parents and brother still live there....But all that said, i have now been back in the uk for 2 years, i have a good job earning more than double what i did in spain (and before anyone says "but the cost of living is so expensive" i have factored that into the equation!!), more friends than in spain, more of a social life and am happier than i have ever been. i was in spain for christmas which was amazing due to being with my family, but apart from that i was bored out of my skull. i suddenly realised that during winter in spain there is nothing to do whatsoever. the people are sullen and dull without sun, and regardless of the fact that i speak like a native, i still get the sense that the spanairds hate us over there! although i was there for 2/3rds of my life i will never call it home and would never move back there for love nor money! expats always slate the uk, but for me its home.


lol - you are right about some things you say, although I am not going to get into which part exactly, but I actually find your post somewhat refreshing, as most people that come onto this forum tend to have a rather different viewpoint


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

willh said:


> I lived in spain for almost 18 years, i went to school over there, then college and eventually malaga uni. I love spain and it will always have a place in my heart especially as my parents and brother still live there....But all that said, i have now been back in the uk for 2 years, i have a good job earning more than double what i did in spain (and before anyone says "but the cost of living is so expensive" i have factored that into the equation!!), more friends than in spain, more of a social life and am happier than i have ever been. i was in spain for christmas which was amazing due to being with my family, but apart from that i was bored out of my skull. i suddenly realised that during winter in spain there is nothing to do whatsoever. the people are sullen and dull without sun, and regardless of the fact that i speak like a native, i still get the sense that the spanairds hate us over there! although i was there for 2/3rds of my life i will never call it home and would never move back there for love nor money! expats always slate the uk, but for me its home.


Food for thought!! thanx Willh

Jo x


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## griz616 (Sep 9, 2008)

jojo said:


> Food for thought!! thanx Willh
> 
> Jo x


Hi jo
talking about food for thoughts, check out the thread "cheaper shopping in spain"
regards griz


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## chummers (Jan 4, 2009)

*Dont do it*

Jo Jo

I am ding the opposite and planning to move out to Spain things are bad everywhere, food maybe cheaper but tax gas electricity and council tax are all high, crime with increase with all the job losses and the rain and cold get to you. You look good! and want to feel good so go back.

The UK would be better its a lovely country but is going to the dogs


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

chummers said:


> Jo Jo
> 
> I am ding the opposite and planning to move out to Spain things are bad everywhere, food maybe cheaper but tax gas electricity and council tax are all high, crime with increase with all the job losses and the rain and cold get to you. You look good! and want to feel good so go back.
> 
> The UK would be better its a lovely country but is going to the dogs


I agree with you about the UK, but its such a financial struggle that if we dont do something, we simply wont have the money to stay. Our outgoings have increased by 30% in the last 3 months, mainly due to the exchange rate and rising costs here. 

Jobs are going faster here than the UK, Spain has one of the highest unemployment figures in europe and is set to rise

Jo x


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## SteveHall (Oct 17, 2008)

jojo said:


> Jobs are going faster here than the UK, Spain has one of the highest unemployment figures in europe and is set to rise


..........and a whole new tranche of South Americans will have the right to live and work here. Obviously, these ALL speak fluent Spanish so the chances of expats finding work are even more limited.

All this at the time the government are PAYING legalised non-Spaniards to return to S. America, N.Africa or Eastern Europe. 

I will be interviewing again this week but there is zero chance of me employing a Brit unless he/she can speak Swedish or Norwegian and Finnish as well as fluent Spanish. 

I'll have no problems filling the other role - Dutch/Spanish speaker who I am sure will also speak German and French too.


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## SunnySpain (Jul 30, 2008)

SteveHall said:


> ..........and a whole new tranche of South Americans will have the right to live and work here. Obviously, these ALL speak fluent Spanish so the chances of expats finding work are even more limited.
> .


Ah yes but no, but yes but seriously though, I think you will find that the majority of the 500,000 (possible) new Spanish citizens are aged over 65, well over in fact. 

So I doubt many of them will be looking for work - lol


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## SteveHall (Oct 17, 2008)

.....and do you not think that the abuelos will be bringing their hijos y nietos? 

I have just spent 90 minutes discussing this with an Argentinian friend. She is a cleaner and has had her hours cut by more than 30% in the last six months as more and more of her customers have (a) gone back to the UK/Ireland and (b) her Spanish clients have battened down the hatches and started doing their own cleaning again. 

She is a BRIGHT girl with TWO degrees but sadly is "lost" here and doesn't speak English so it's hard for me to help her. I know her well and joked "You'll just have to get yourself a Spanish husband to "join the clubs"! Well, I thought it was a joke but she lost it and spat back "That's the last thing I'd do to xxxxx stay here, Esteve. Well, actually, the second to last thing. Well, actually the last thing." She did not need to comment more. 

We discussed the huge number of latinos here who are sin papeles and she says the figures are far far higher than the government would like to admit but IAC as they are entitled to no benefits she made a case for them being good for the area as they circulate cash. She also commented that Málaga province has done away with its lista negra of jobs that it would not expect claimants to accept and the arable workers and labour work in the fishing industry has now to be accepted or your unemployment can be stopped. Historically this was work that the latinos, N.Africans and to a lesser extent Eastern Europeans would do. 

This is a mess


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## chris(madrid) (Mar 23, 2008)

SteveHall said:


> .....and do you not think that the abuelos will be bringing their hijos y nietos?


Nietos - as this is the basis of recent changes - it applies to GRANDCHILDREN - Those actually exiled or their children have had the chance before.


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## SteveHall (Oct 17, 2008)

Sorry, I scribbled this out .... the point I was "trying to made" was cousins, nephews, brothers-in-law, the guy over the road, Pedro from the petanca team, pet budgies etc Thanks for tidying. 

I guess it is a basic human "need" - travel. For me and hundreds of millions of others over thousands of years it is almost as important as water, food, shelter etc etc - our "fix"!
Sometimes it is economy (necessity or to better ourselves), sometimes asylum, sometimes ... it is simply that basic human yearning to experience new sights, sounds, smells, people, religions etc 

I have lived on the road for over 30 years (either as an expat) or through work. Whilst Spain is "Home" I guess I'd accept that "Home is where the heart is" and if the right opportunity came up in a Scandi or Spanish speaking country I could be "tempted". Likewise I yearn to understand India and maybe even Thailand. I expect to die in India ...... but not for a long time yet!!


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## chris(madrid) (Mar 23, 2008)

Aha - a fellow sufferer. Pet budgies eh -Mmmmmmm


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## SunnySpain (Jul 30, 2008)

chris(madrid) said:


> Nietos - as this is the basis of recent changes - it applies to GRANDCHILDREN - Those actually exiled or their children have had the chance before.



I stand corrected. The latest change is indeed regarding the GRANDCHILDREN of those exiled. But hey, I think the decision is the right one.


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