# moving to Spain before March 2019 -



## suiko (Dec 7, 2015)

hi everyone

I posted on here a few months ago about residency:

http://www.expatforum.com/expats/spain-expat-forum-expats-living-spain/1226889-applying-residency.html

It seems the thread went somewhat awry while I was otherwise occupied 

Anyway, things have moved on a bit, and I am becoming more and more convinced that, in order to continue to enjoy the rights of an EU citizen (and in due course perhaps to renounce my British citizenship and apply for Spanish), I need to move to Spain in 2018. Failure to do this may, it seems, make it impossible to use Spanish healthcare (reimbursed by NHS) in future years. I want to live in Spain again, but my future income will unfortunately not allow me to afford private health insurance in Spain.

To do this, I have decided that the best option and to return to working as an EFL teacher in Spain, as I did for some years over 20 years ago (I am now 53). This has been tough, as my current job in the UK is fairly prestigious, and going back to EFL work in Spain will mean a cut in salary of about 75%, and (obviously) far worse working conditions. 

I'm very interested to know what the take of Brits actually living in Spain now is on all this, and how our rights are likely to be affected by Brexit. From what I have gathered, it seems that current arrangements under which Brits' healthcare is reimbursed by the NHS will continue for those already resident in Spain (and presumably for those who are resident by March 2019)?

As you can imagine, it is a huge decision to make. All input gratefully received


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

suiko said:


> I'm very interested to know what the take of Brits actually living in Spain now is on all this, and how our rights are likely to be affected by Brexit. From what I have gathered, it seems that current arrangements under which Brits' healthcare is reimbursed by the NHS will continue for those already resident in Spain (and presumably for those who are resident by March 2019)?
> 
> As you can imagine, it is a huge decision to make. All input gratefully received


The negotiations between the UK and the EU relating to citizens' rights are still ongoing and nothing has been formally agreed. So although we all have our fingers crossed that our healthcare will continue to be paid for by the UK, it is by no means definite. Sorry!


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## suiko (Dec 7, 2015)

Alcalaina said:


> The negotiations between the UK and the EU relating to citizens' rights are still ongoing and nothing has been formally agreed. So although we all have our fingers crossed that our healthcare will continue to be paid for by the UK, it is by no means definite. Sorry!


Not that one can believe a word this bunch of liars and crooks say, but....

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/aug/31/brexit-healthcare-deal-is-good-news-for-pensioners

The article does appear to suggest that this is one of the few things that HAS been agreed (not that they couldn't mess even this up with their idiocy from this point on, of course!)


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

suiko said:


> Not that one can believe a word this bunch of liars and crooks say, but....
> 
> https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/aug/31/brexit-healthcare-deal-is-good-news-for-pensioners
> 
> The article does appear to suggest that this is one of the few things that HAS been agreed (not that they couldn't mess even this up with their idiocy from this point on, of course!)


Yes, as a pensioner I was very relieved to see that. But although it looks likely those of use who are already getting our health cover will continue to do so, there's no guarantee it will apply to new applicants. It all depends what cut-off date is eventually agreed. And at 53 you are a long way from being a state pensioner.

If you are working in Spain though, you'll be making contributions here and will be covered by the Spanish system.


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## suiko (Dec 7, 2015)

Yeah, obviously I'm thinking of in the future! 

I can't see how they can possibly establish a cut-off date that is before March 2019 - when else could it be? That's why I'm thinking I need to be resident before that.

Presumably someone in your position who moves to Spain next week, gets legalised etc, would be in the same position as you?


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

suiko said:


> Yeah, obviously I'm thinking of in the future!
> 
> I can't see how they can possibly establish a cut-off date that is before March 2019 - when else could it be? That's why I'm thinking I need to be resident before that.
> 
> Presumably someone in your position who moves to Spain next week, gets legalised etc, would be in the same position as you?


You won't be entitled to an S1 & therefore have the UK fund your healthcare by March 2019 though. 

I'll be very surprised if anyone not already in the position of having their healthcare funded at that date, will qualify.


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## suiko (Dec 7, 2015)

xabiachica said:


> You won't be entitled to an S1 & therefore have the UK fund your healthcare by March 2019 though.
> 
> I'll be very surprised if anyone not already in the position of having their healthcare funded at that date, will qualify.


And an S1 is not issued until one is retired, right? And if one takes early retirement in order to obtain the form?


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## Chica22 (Feb 26, 2010)

Although I have lived in Spain for many years (I am currently a dependant on my husbands S1/NHS health care). I think it is extremely unlikely that I will be able to apply for my own NHS health care when I reach pension age (in 9 years time!!!!). I have requested clarification on this issue on numerous occasions from the UK Government with the usual bland response!!!! I think there must be quite a number of UK immigrants who are not working and are not of pension age that in future may have to purchase private health care.

Perhaps something to take into consideration before you make the move.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

suiko said:


> And an S1 is not issued until one is retired, right? And if one takes early retirement in order to obtain the form?


It's linked to your state pension & is only issued when you qualify for that.


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

Chica22 said:


> Although I have lived in Spain for many years (I am currently a dependant on my husbands S1/NHS health care). I think it is extremely unlikely that I will be able to apply for my own NHS health care when I reach pension age (in 9 years time!!!!). I have requested clarification on this issue on numerous occasions from the UK Government with the usual bland response!!!! I think there must be quite a number of UK immigrants who are not working and are not of pension age that in future may have to purchase private health care.
> 
> Perhaps something to take into consideration before you make the move.


I am in the same position and have the same misgivings. I certainly won't be cancelling my private health insurance (which we had to have before we became entitled to S1s and kept on when my husband reached state pension age), just in case).


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Chica22 said:


> Although I have lived in Spain for many years (I am currently a dependant on my husbands S1/NHS health care). I think it is extremely unlikely that I will be able to apply for my own NHS health care when I reach pension age (in 9 years time!!!!). I have requested clarification on this issue on numerous occasions from the UK Government with the usual bland response!!!! I think there must be quite a number of UK immigrants who are not working and are not of pension age that in future may have to purchase private health care.
> 
> Perhaps something to take into consideration before you make the move.



Unless Spain changes the rules though, because you were registered resident before April 24 2012 ( I think you were? ) you will be entitled to Spanish healthcare in your own right, should it coem to that.


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## Chica22 (Feb 26, 2010)

xabiachica said:


> Unless Spain changes the rules though, because you were registered resident before April 24 2012 ( I think you were? ) you will be entitled to Spanish healthcare in your own right, should it coem to that.


Yes thanks xabiachica, I am aware that I can apply for Spanish healthcare in my own right, but perhaps others are not as fortunate. It is just another incredibly annoying and frustrating thing about Brexit, that none of us planned for when relocating to Spain.

More frustrating for me is trying to get a response from an offical in the UK, I sent an email to the British Consulate in Spain and received a response that the British Consulate does not reply to emails and directing me to the Government website!!! I sent an email to David Davis and his reply must have been wrote by a 6 year old he even spelt Prime Minister wrong!!!! (Minster) . 

But yet all that is heard on TV is that the British Government is focussed on protecting its own citizens rights


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## Chica22 (Feb 26, 2010)

[
, but my future income will unfortunately not allow me to afford private health insurance in Spain.



Remember in order to apply for Residencia you will have to show sufficient income and private health care or a contract of employment. (Not sure about autonomo, perhaps others can advise)


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Chica22 said:


> Yes thanks xabiachica, I am aware that I can apply for Spanish healthcare in my own right, but perhaps others are not as fortunate. It is just another incredibly annoying and frustrating thing about Brexit, that none of us planned for when relocating to Spain.
> 
> More frustrating for me is trying to get a response from an offical in the UK, I sent an email to the British Consulate in Spain and received a response that the British Consulate does not reply to emails and directing me to the Government website!!! I sent an email to David Davis and his reply must have been wrote by a 6 year old he even spelt Prime Minister wrong!!!! (Minster) .
> 
> But yet all that is heard on TV is that the British Government is focussed on protecting its own citizens rights


I think they just don't know yet  And probably won't until everything is done & dusted.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Chica22 said:


> [
> , but my future income will unfortunately not allow me to afford private health insurance in Spain.
> 
> 
> ...


Yes, autónomo covers both the income & healthcare requirements.

You are of course actually expected to run a business & prove that you do, if you register as autónomo.


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## suiko (Dec 7, 2015)

Chica22 said:


> [
> , but my future income will unfortunately not allow me to afford private health insurance in Spain.
> 
> 
> ...


I will obviously be employed when I come to Spain and get (temporary) residency, so presumably won't need private cover at that point, or for the medium term.

Thanks for clarifying the S1 situation. I wonder whether it will make any difference being in Spain before March 2019 (apart from the fact that the bureaucracy for getting a work permit will presumably be a lot harder)? Would be interested to know people's take on this?

Honestly, though, I don't even care that much about the money anymore. Simply don't want to be in this country anymore, even if it does mean living in relative poverty!


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

suiko said:


> I will obviously be employed when I come to Spain and get (temporary) residency, so presumably won't need private cover at that point, or for the medium term.
> 
> Thanks for clarifying the S1 situation. I wonder whether it will make any difference being in Spain before March 2019 (apart from the fact that the bureaucracy for getting a work permit will presumably be a lot harder)? Would be interested to know people's take on this?
> 
> Honestly, though, I don't even care that much about the money anymore. Simply don't want to be in this country anymore, even if it does mean living in relative poverty!


Most of us don't believe that anyone will be entitled to anything from the UK that they aren't already in receipt of on B day. 

If you're going to be working in Spain, either on a contract, or registered as autónomo, then you will be entitled to state healthcare, & will eventually be entitled to a pension. With that pension will also come entitlement to state healthcare.

Should you stop work before retirement age, you might have to have private healthcare in the intervening years, depending on how long you work. 

I'm not 100% certain though.


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## suiko (Dec 7, 2015)

Thanks for the super-clear explanation 

So can anyone think of a reason why it would be better to move before March 2019 (apart from the obvious ones of (a) more hassle getting a work permit - though I imagine Spanish "academias" will have to get used to this as there will be far fewer potential teachers) and (b) ever-declining value of the pound)?

Of course, I am hoping I shall get offered redundancy here.... that would make it a whole lot easier...


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

suiko said:


> Thanks for the super-clear explanation
> 
> So can anyone think of a reason why it would be better to move before March 2019 (apart from the obvious ones of (a) more hassle getting a work permit - though I imagine Spanish "academias" will have to get used to this as there will be far fewer potential teachers) and (b) ever-declining value of the pound)?
> 
> Of course, I am hoping I shall get offered redundancy here.... that would make it a whole lot easier...


Only the visa / work permit situation really.... if you're earning in Spain the value of the pound won't make any difference to you.

I'm not really convinced that many academies will go to the hassle of applying for visas for native English speaking teachers tbh


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## suiko (Dec 7, 2015)

xabiachica said:


> Only the visa / work permit situation really.... if you're earning in Spain the value of the pound won't make any difference to you.
> 
> I'm not really convinced that many academies will go to the hassle of applying for visas for native English speaking teachers tbh


Well, if it's anything like in "my day" (and I can't imagine it's changed that much), all the better academies (i.e. the only ones you might want to work for!) employed native speaker teachers. Snob appeal, almost certainly (I am quite sure a well-qualified Spaniard - or indeed Romanian! - can do the job just as well), but it has always been something middle-class parents want. I did this process before Maastricht, and I would say the hassle was more or less equally divided between employer and employee.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Yes I admit that I got my first job in an academy because I'm native English & what's more have a 'home counties' accent!

The bigger, better, & therefore better paid academies will probably want native speakers - but I still doubt that small local ones like those in my town will want the hassle.


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

[


suiko said:


> And an S1 is not issued until one is retired, right? And if one takes early retirement in order to obtain the form?


Can't get S1 for early retirement 

I also am an English teacher. Although based on some of my posts on here you'd be hard pressed to believe it!

I am working because 

I get health care as autonomo ( as does my husband) for € 280 pm but more importantly we will get healthcare when we retire as we will apply for our Spanish pension first topped up by our U.K. State. As don't believe the U.K. will fund future retirees healthcare however old you are. They don't fund outside the EU so no shock there


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## suiko (Dec 7, 2015)

xabiachica said:


> Yes I admit that I got my first job in an academy because I'm native English & what's more have a 'home counties' accent!
> 
> The bigger, better, & therefore better paid academies will probably want native speakers - but I still doubt that small local ones like those in my town will want the hassle.


Sure! But while I will probably look to buy a house in a village (see endless threads from Before the Brexastrophe!) I'll be working in a city.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

suiko said:


> Sure! But while I will probably look to buy a house in a village (see endless threads from Before the Brexastrophe!) I'll be working in a city.


Do you already have a job offer?


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## suiko (Dec 7, 2015)

xabiachica said:


> Do you already have a job offer?


No. I haven't left my job here yet. Getting a job offer should be easy, though, once I decide what I'm doing - I'm pretty highly qualified, worked for all the best people in the past, and speak excellent Spanish too, so I can't imagine it'll be that hard to find an EFL Macjob!


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

suiko said:


> No. I haven't left my job here yet.* Getting a job offer should be easy,* though, once I decide what I'm doing - I'm pretty highly qualified, worked for all the best people in the past, and speak excellent Spanish too, so I can't imagine it'll be that hard to find an EFL Macjob!


Now there's the nub. With the level of unemployment in Spain of Spanish jobseekers many very well qualified and with experience and willing to work.. !


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

baldilocks said:


> Now there's the nub. With the level of unemployment in Spain of Spanish jobseekers many very well qualified and with experience and willing to work.. !


But...


> to find an EFL Macjob!


which is what she wants it shouldn't be difficult if she has coroprate experience and a TEFL qualification. Obviously there's no real money in it...


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## Keral (Sep 16, 2017)

suiko said:


> No. I haven't left my job here yet. Getting a job offer should be easy, though, once I decide what I'm doing - I'm pretty *highly qualified*, *worked for all the best people in the past*, and speak excellent Spanish too, so I can't imagine it'll be that hard to find an EFL Macjob!


I think you have very "rosé tinted glasses" on there. Already by your wording, you have priced Spain out of the equation with your pay requirements & remember that in March, 2019 you will not be a EU citizen by birthright, just another lost soul looking for the sun in which Spanish employers have to bypass and find a national or EU citizen for the job. I also think that no employer will give you or should give you anything in writing for past March-2019.

I would not cut any ties you have from the UK as they might come in handy/needed in April-2019 - with a brexit agreement or not one..


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

The posts discussing healthcare are now here http://www.expatforum.com/expats/la-tasca/1334482-healthcare-comparisons.html


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

suiko said:


> No. I haven't left my job here yet. Getting a job offer should be easy, though, once I decide what I'm doing - I'm pretty highly qualified, worked for all the best people in the past, and speak excellent Spanish too, so I can't imagine it'll be that hard to find an EFL Macjob!


IN THE PAST... are the key words here..... whilst you many well get a job, living off the wages is a totally different matter. Also, from my own research the best places require a degree level teaching certificate and TEFL. Don't presume getting a job here is easy, also you have Brexit to deal with.


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## suiko (Dec 7, 2015)

baldilocks said:


> Now there's the nub. With the level of unemployment in Spain of Spanish jobseekers many very well qualified and with experience and willing to work.. !


I know all about that. Nothing much has changed there in the 30 years plus since I first worked in Spain. 

Finding an EFL teaching job is never difficult for well-qualified experienced teachers, except in very popular places like Granada and central Barcelona. The issue is the poor pay and working conditions!


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## Chopera (Apr 22, 2013)

suiko said:


> I know all about that. Nothing much has changed there in the 30 years plus since I first worked in Spain.
> 
> Finding an EFL teaching job is never difficult for well-qualified experienced teachers, except in very popular places like Granada and central Barcelona. The issue is the poor pay and working conditions!


Indeed I know a few EFL teachers in Madrid and they never have problems finding work. Another growth area in Madrid is teaching in International schools. I know one EFL teacher who has some kind of primary school PGCE that she did via distance learning, but didn't give her the experience to gain QTS, and that has been sufficient for her to find reasonable work in International schools. If you can do a genuine PGCE with work experience in the UK before moving to Spain, you should be in an even better position, should that line of work interest you of course.


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## suiko (Dec 7, 2015)

Chopera said:


> Indeed I know a few EFL teachers in Madrid and they never have problems finding work. Another growth area in Madrid is teaching in International schools. I know one EFL teacher who has some kind of primary school PGCE that she did via distance learning, but didn't give her the experience to gain QTS, and that has been sufficient for her to find reasonable work in International schools. If you can do a genuine PGCE with work experience in the UK before moving to Spain, you should be in an even better position, should that line of work interest you of course.


I do have a PGCE - my problem with that is that my degree was in Spanish. Ergo not terribly useful for teaching in Spain!


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## Chopera (Apr 22, 2013)

suiko said:


> I do have a PGCE - my problem with that is that my degree was in Spanish. Ergo not terribly useful for teaching in Spain!


Based on what I've heard (I'm not a teacher so have no first hand experience) native English and a PGCE (albeit for teaching Spanish) should still be sufficient for teaching English in international schools. When I say international schools, I'm not thinking of the big established ones, but the smaller Spanish run private schools that teach mainly in English, and might even attempt to follow the UK primary curriculum. Quite a few seem to have popped up over the last ten years or so. 

They won't necessarily pay more than a well-paid job teaching business English, but it's another option.


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

Chopera said:


> Indeed I know a few EFL teachers in Madrid and they never have problems finding work. Another growth area in Madrid is teaching in International schools. I know one EFL teacher who has some kind of primary school PGCE that she did via distance learning, but didn't give her the experience to gain QTS, and that has been sufficient for her to find reasonable work in International schools. If you can do a genuine PGCE with work experience in the UK before moving to Spain, you should be in an even better position, should that line of work interest you of course.


PGCE distant learning...... never knew that. Off to google:smash:


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