# Montpellier or Lyon, which would you choose?



## kgalb2

I have posted before about our move over in this thread: Spouse of French citizen planning a move but keeping US...

This is a bit of a shot in the dark but maybe some folks here have some opinions or thoughts.

We are inching closer to our move from the US to France this fall (September/October). My wife is from the South of France (just outside Toulon) and we will have our 2-year old son and dog coming along with us. We had originally been looking at moving to Lyon. We have visited there before and really enjoyed our time. It’s a big enough city, with lots of culture, green spaces, and was an overall great experience. Additional research has shown us that it is well within our budget, has solid childcare options, good public transportation, solid apartment situations that would work for our family, etc. So it seems to check all the boxes in terms of what we are looking for.

But we got interested in Montpellier recently. My understanding is that it is more of a university town. But it would be a bit closer to family, it would be in the South so somewhat better weather, seems like it has good childcare options as well, etc. I’m less clear on if it has great public transportation (we are trying to avoid owning a car our first year in France because of the license situation). So I’m just curious if folks here have opinions on Lyon versus Montpellier for a family moving from the US to France.


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## Bevdeforges

We used to have a somewhat "cantankerous" forum member who had very definite - and very negative - opinions about Lyon. I don't know the town that well other than having passed through it on the way to Grenoble and my big impression was that the traffic there is horrible.

Have been to Montpellier a couple of times and really like the town. To get by without a car you will have to live pretty much in the downtown area (which is actually pretty nice from what I've seen of it). But go to the town website and hunt around for their transit maps. Living in reasonable proximity to the transit routes (they have a tram system and buses, as I recall) should be do-able. And the university offers a number of advantages in terms of cultural, art and general ambiance.


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## BackinFrance

I love Montpellier. And it has a good tram network, plus buses. I would certainly consider living there if I could afford to live within a few kilomètres of the town centre. Great street art too. I don't really know Lyon, but it's too cold for me in the winter. Toulouse is nice too.


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## ARPC

Licence situation? You are free to drive on your us license for up to a year (or longer with your proof of application paper). There is no driving test and the process is online and pretty easy, just one weird form you have to find on your state’s dmv website. An American license makes no drama for purchasing nor insuring a car either. And it’s fun because the local douane patrol starts calling you « madam TeXAS». Montpellier is lovely, downtown is well served with a bus system and bike lanes, but I think I would want a car if I were living there. I have a few friends who live there and work at the university. They love it, but they all have cars.


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## TravisM479

Personally, I would go with Lyon. Montpellier may be fantastic: I know at least a half-dozen folks who studied there in college. And I believe the majority of them enjoyed it. But, in my opinion, the fact that it is so frequently a college programme destination is also a possible weakness: it is perhaps too simple to meet other individuals with whom one may wind up speaking English rather than French.


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## JayBee1

Hello. I haven’t lived in Lyon but will give 2 thumbs up for my new home city of Montpellier. Tram and bus is excellent with expansions on tram lines and a new bus/tram by 2025. Public transportation will be free for all by the end of 2023. I love the university town feel as it has a great vibe. Lyon probably provides better direct options by train. Love the access to sea and mountains. We don't own a car, we have things delivered if necessary. We rent a car from time to time. Great old city but an equally beautiful new area. They are instituting a fee for driving in certain areas starting in July (as I'm sure is starting to happen in many cities.) Montpellier is putting in a bid to be the 2028 European culture capital for 2028 so we should see growth in culture as well. Good luck!


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## Xyz789

I live in Lyon. It is a nice city, plenty of English speakers and a decent public transport network if you live centrally. But it is quite polluted, has aggressive drivers, many services are oversubscribed, and you can still have a longish commute depending on where you live/work (and I say this having moved from a much larger city abroad). Cost of living is also high relative to local salaries. However I can't comment on Montpellier, might be similar!


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## saffron_gin

Montpellier has been on my mind too...as the possibility of finding a suitable rural house within the year seems to slightly diminish...I visited it for my OFII and so have a 'taste' of it. Was really impressed by the artisanal market near OFII...it had flair! Stayed a couple of nights in a nice little hotel near the Gare and the area was pretty clean...Didn't explore much beyond a little bit around the hotel/center...it was biting cold to my surprise at times. And windy. I think @jweihl might have better comments to add as he considered moving there but went to Nîmes instead...

I was thinking areas just outside the center for myself as I bought a used car already and don't wish to quickly sell it off, as it was a 'process' to find and buy. 

It was a friendly city. And youthful one from what I saw. Worth another visit to properly explore it, especially other parts besides centre-ville.


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## kgalb2

ARPC said:


> Licence situation? You are free to drive on your us license for up to a year (or longer with your proof of application paper). There is no driving test and the process is online and pretty easy, just one weird form you have to find on your state’s dmv website. An American license makes no drama for purchasing nor insuring a car either. And it’s fun because the local douane patrol starts calling you « madam TeXAS». Montpellier is lovely, downtown is well served with a bus system and bike lanes, but I think I would want a car if I were living there. I have a few friends who live there and work at the university. They love it, but they all have cars.


Yes, sorry I wasn't very clear. The license situation would be fine for the first year as I can drive in France without much additional documentation. But after the first year, I believe I would have to take a driving test (written and road) as my state doesn't have reciprocity with France (https://fr.usembassy.gov/wp-content/uploads/sites/50/acs_driving-2018.pdf). It's not the end of the world if I do need to do that. I believe my fluency is at a high enough level that I may even be able to do the _candidat libre _option. I guess I'm just not looking to solve the car problem as soon as we arrive in France. So having options for the first 3-6 months where we don't need a car is ideal.



> Hello. I haven’t lived in Lyon but will give 2 thumbs up for my new home city of Montpellier. Tram and bus is excellent with expansions on tram lines and a new bus/tram by 2025. Public transportation will be free for all by the end of 2023. I love the university town feel as it has a great vibe. Lyon probably provides better direct options by train. Love the access to sea and mountains. We don't own a car, we have things delivered if necessary. We rent a car from time to time. Great old city but an equally beautiful new area. They are instituting a fee for driving in certain areas starting in July (as I'm sure is starting to happen in many cities.) Montpellier is putting in a bid to be the 2028 European culture capital for 2028 so we should see growth in culture as well. Good luck!


@JayBee1 do you have any quarters that you recommend over others? We are totally new to Montpellier so any areas to look at are always appreciated.



Xyz789 said:


> I live in Lyon. It is a nice city, plenty of English speakers and a decent public transport network if you live centrally. But it is quite polluted, has aggressive drivers, many services are oversubscribed, and you can still have a longish commute depending on where you live/work (and I say this having moved from a much larger city abroad). Cost of living is also high relative to local salaries. However I can't comment on Montpellier, might be similar!


Thanks @Xyz789! I don't think English speakers are a high priority for us. We both speak French fluently but having some fellow English speakers/expats that we could chat about French bureaucracy with might not be a bad idea in the long run 


It sounds like there are opinions in both camps. Keep them coming if you have them! Very helpful and is honestly making the decision a bit harder, but that's a good thing 

One thing that others have touched on that I didn't state explicitly is that we likely want to be in a relatively calm quarter. Obviously, we don't want to live somewhere with a high amount of crime, etc, etc. But we would prefer a quarter that is relatively family-friendly, isn't full of bar noise until 3 AM, has a park to have a picnic that is within walking distance, good restaurants not far, grocery stores, etc, etc. Having been to Lyon and having done quite a bit of research on different quarters to live in, I think we're confident those exist. We haven't done that research for Montpellier, but I'm sure they exist as well, so if you have ideas for quarters to check out, we're all ears.


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## Bevdeforges

For Montpellier, you may want to consider contacting The American Women's Group of Languedoc Roussillon which is, in fact, an "international" group of women. Home

Quite a few years back I attended a conference held by them in Montpellier and found them to be a really friendly and helpful group. They may even publish a book about living in Montpellier (many of the FAWCO groups do publish something like this). But I still remember fondly the warm welcome from this group in Montpellier - my first time in the town - and the fascinating group of women there.


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## JayBee1

That's a tough one. Something close to line 1 stops :Mondial 98, Millenaire and or Port Marianne (has line 1 and 3) will offer what you see to be asking for, but it's a newer area. Parks,funky restaurants, bike lanes along the river. Modern shopping area Odysseum at the end of line. As for older areas...not sure about exact locations with what you're looking for.


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## BraveHorse

When it comes to Lyon, I suggest you drive through "grande rue de la Guillotière" in the late afternoon, or in the evening. That may change your opinion about Lyon...
Montpellier's much better to me.
The best thing about Lyon is that, it's central. If you want to move around, there are fast trains to Geneva, Paris or Nice, but Montpellier is better because you can easily go to the beach, in Palavas les flots or La grande Motte.


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## bdelancy

I wanted to be closer to the sea, and wanted maximum sunshine, so the area around Montpellier was my pick. Our home is actually about 40 km from Montpellier, but I go into the city often and love it.


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## zekeDR

Expat american here, long time resident of Lyon (18 years). Lyon is a rather intense city. Very busy, noisy, but dynamic and interesting. The city is in constant evolution, usually for the better. New tramlines constantly added, green spaces are being enlarged and created every year. The Ecologist governmenent in power is pushing HARD for as much ecological transformation as possible (bike lanes, car reduction (the entire centre-ville just passed to 30kmh speed limit), sustainability projects, etc) before they get voted out in the next elections because these transitions are painful and encroache on people's freedoms, even though they are all necessary. The quality of life is rather good, but it all depends on what quartier you're in. One area can be a real dump but then a few blocks away it can be really calm and clean. Crime is mostly limited to drug deals, stolen cars, vandalism, and a lot of basic incivilities like people motoring on the sidewalks and littering. Violent crime exists, but that's the case in all major cities. Real estate is very expensive, but prices are starting to come down after several years of ridiculous prices. One thing I've struggled with over the years is the amount of wet, humide, cloudy weather in the winter time. Once summer is in swing it's lovely. The central location is fabulous as you can drive to the Alps in a couple hours, Italy is several hours, Ardeche in 2 hours. Good international airport. TGV service in all directions. 

As for your drivers license plan: the idea of presenting as candidat libre can be kind of a longshot. I drove several years on my american license until I got caught, arrrested, fined for "defaut de permis". I had to go the driving school route. Cost me 600€ and a couple months of my time, but the way it's set up it's almost impossible to succeed at the official driving test with a state monitor without having gone through a school. Some may have done it, but it's not easy. It's just a different way of driving here, and a monitor will quickly find a detail that you haven't learned without having be "trained" by a school. My school instructor wasn't even born when I first started driving at 15 and she treated me like I was a total noob, constantly correcting me and hammering me with details that I wouldn't have integrated had I not gone through the school, details which helped me pass the driving test with the state monitor.

I wish you luck on your adventure. You'll have to really mentally prepare for this transition because the first few years can really be tough going. Lot's of hurdles and tests for your patience. You won't be the same person after you've fully integrated.


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## zekeDR

One more thing: I don't know about Montpellier, but going through the immigration process here in Lyon, with the prefecture, is daunting. The number of demands at immigration services is extreme. When I first got here in 2004 the prefecture was in an old building that wasn't adapted to the high demand and so it was a nightmare. Now, they have a big new building where the distribution of tickets for the waiting is a lot better organized. That said, you still have to be there between 4 and 5am to start waiting in line if you want to get a ticket that allows you to get services before the afternoon cut-off time. It's a real drag, and you'll have to do this several times over the course of your early years. Montpellier might be a more reasonable process, I can't say. I read your other thread regarding your preparation for your move and saw you talking about spousal visa and such. For me, it was rather easy, I was here on a "tourist visa" meaning none, for 2 years bumming around keeping a low profile, living with the girlfriend. We got married (wife was french), and as soon as I had my livret de famille I went straight to the prefecture and got my recipissé for a demande de carte de sejour immediately, which got me my carte sécu rather quickly and then I got a job within a month. Don't know if its still possible to proceed this way or not.


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## Peasant

BraveHorse said:


> When it comes to Lyon, I suggest you drive through "grande rue de la Guillotière" in the late afternoon, or in the evening. That may change your opinion about Lyon...


Would you judge all of New York City from a visit to Times Square? All of London by a quick trip to Brixton? 
Give us a break, please...


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## davegreen

I find Lyon, and residents of Lyon, a tad aggressive. I live very near Montpellier and I love it. As someone said above, close to the beach and the mountains. Would be Montpellier for me.


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## Peasant

davegreen said:


> I find Lyon, and residents of Lyon, a tad aggressive.


I find the residents of Lyon to be very friendly, and helpful. They also tend to be very proud of their city. It's kind of like Chicago in many ways.


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## BackinFrance

Oops wrong thread.


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## Aloysius_

I formerly lived in Lyon and think it's a great town. As for your description of what you're looking for (park close by, quiet at night, etc.) the 6th arrondissement would be a good choice, if you can afford it. We lived a 5 minute walk from Parc de la Tête d'Or and it was great. Can be a bit crowded on nice summer weekends, but generally it's not. 

And, as others have noted, Lyon's location is good -- easy to get to the Alps, to Italy, Switzerland, Massif Central, and southern France, and only two hours from Paris by train. Traffic into and out of town can be a major issue, but in town you don't really need a car unless you have haul something, and you can rent one for that if you need to.

The biggest drawback of Lyon to me was the summer heat. Too far south for my taste. Montpelier is nice (I've only visited) but it definitely would be too hot for me in the summer.

I will agree with a previous commenter who noted the préfecture. It got better over time, but the first year we had to renew my wife's carte de séjour we went twice in the early morning and both times the tickets were used up before we could get in. I finally got the attention of one of the workers and asked her when I should show up to make sure I got a ticket. 3 AM was her answer -- I'm not kidding.

So, a few days later, I got up at 2, realized the buses don't run that time of night (duh) and walked quite a way to préfecture. In February. I got in line (I was about 30 people back from the door) and stood for hours through occasional snow flurries until the sky started to brighten and my wife showed up with a thermos of coffee and a warm baguette. We got in that time. As I noted above, it got better over time, but that initial experience made it seem that they intentionally were trying to make it difficult.


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## lmoore954

I lived in Lyon for four years and I loved it. It was a great place to start as someone new to France, having to learn the language and trying to start a new life. Lots of museums, restaurants, activities, things to do, good transport, and centrally located. The American Club of Lyon is also a great resource, the members are helpful and just wonderful people in general. Coming from the US, I couldn't have asked for a better 'first French home' than Lyon.

I left 2 years ago for a smaller city, and I can't fathom going back to Lyon now. The noise is intense, the pollution too. Summers are hell, and some arrondissements have significantly less green space than others. Invest in an air conditioner; every summer the heat waves were extreme - up to 104° at one point. The real estate market is extremely expensive, probably even worse today because of all the Parisians who got the hell out of Paris post-confinements.

The visits to the Préfecture are not to be underestimated; they are long, but I will say that I was lucky in that I always got polite (and sometimes even really pleasant) treatment whenever I finally got to the guichet - and that's no small feat considering what an exhausting job that must be.


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## Last Chance

lmoore954 said:


> I left 2 years ago for a smaller city, and I can't fathom going back to Lyon now.


I am with you on that. 

Lyon is very 'special'. And tooo hot. Not just in the summer.


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## Peasant

lmoore954 said:


> Summers are hell...


If you've ever lived in Texas, or anywhere in most of the Southern or Central US, Summers in Lyon are easy-peazy.
There are usually a few hot days (upper-30s+) but not that many. I've lived through a month of 100F weather in bucolic Nebraska...


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## tardigrade

And cold in the winter; Lyon that is


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## Last Chance

tardigrade said:


> And cold in the winter; Lyon that is


Lyon is very hot in the summer but not that cold in winter anymore. 

Something to do with global warming I believe.

Tis was 24/25 degrees the other day in Lyon. 29 in Montpellier.

That is not good at this time of the year ?


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