# State of NZ



## Scoojez

I'm trying to remain optimistic about our plans to return to NZ . The ongoing media reports of a struggling economy seem to echo the early 90's and our reason for high tailing it out of there. 

It seems kiwis can't afford to live in their own country. Long standing small businesses closing their doors, increasing mortgagee repossessions, cutbacks in education and other public services.

I see so many posts regarding people wanting to emigrate to NZ. I'm intrigued to know what professions these newcomers are in? Retirees? Movie Producers?

Maybe it's the government's grand plan


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## anski

Scoojez said:


> I'm trying to remain optimistic about our plans to return to NZ . The ongoing media reports of a struggling economy seem to echo the early 90's and our reason for high tailing it out of there.
> 
> It seems kiwis can't afford to live in their own country. Long standing small businesses closing their doors, increasing mortgagee repossessions, cutbacks in education and other public services.
> 
> I see so many posts regarding people wanting to emigrate to NZ. I'm intrigued to know what professions these newcomers are in? Retirees? Movie Producers?
> 
> Maybe it's the government's grand plan


At the moment almost every country seems to be reporting the same.

Facts are- shops like Briscoes, Harvey Norman etc are constantly having sales but that's the same in other countries.

People are still spending - a prestige jewellery shop is having the best year in 15 years.

Retired friends with own home have good standard of living on $36,000 nett maintain 2 cars & have holidays, clothes, etc, buy quality food but don't waste money on take aways, eating out or Sky tv. 

Some people would struggle on a million $ & others are better managers.


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## topcat83

Scoojez said:


> I'm trying to remain optimistic about our plans to return to NZ . The ongoing media reports of a struggling economy seem to echo the early 90's and our reason for high tailing it out of there.
> 
> It seems kiwis can't afford to live in their own country. Long standing small businesses closing their doors, increasing mortgagee repossessions, cutbacks in education and other public services.
> 
> I see so many posts regarding people wanting to emigrate to NZ. I'm intrigued to know what professions these newcomers are in? Retirees? Movie Producers?
> 
> Maybe it's the government's grand plan


...interesting to see though that NZ is on a par with the UK for GDP per capita (they lay at 22nd & 23rd in the world) and is much better off for % public debt - 34% for NZ against 86% for the UK. (Oz beats both of us).

Unfortunately there are problems all over the world at the moment - especially in Europe. So in comparison I personally don't think we're struggling as much as other places in the world.

See List of countries by GDP (nominal) per capita - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia and List of countries by public debt - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## sabfrance

It's often the way that people remember their home country as the way it was when they left - frozen in time.

The world keeps spinning and things change. Not better, not worse, just different.

When analyzing the fortunes of the country it is easy to look at just the financials. But what price on freedom of choice, peace, the outdoors and civil liberties?

The global financial crsis has changed much but I would still rather live in a southern hemisphere location than northern.


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## inhamilton

New Zealand's doing ok I think (by comparison to much of the northern hemisphere anyway). Interest rates are at an all time low. Unemployment is relatively low. My dollar seems to be going as far as it always has, to be honest. Whether that's just my perception or not, I don't know. I certainly couldn't buy a TV or Computer or washing machine or fridge 10 years ago for as cheaply as you can now compared to income (due to the high dollar I think). I know that much.
The price of petrol is astronomical though.


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## anski

Inhamilton said [QUOTE The price of petrol is astronomical though.[/QUOTE]

Sorry I have to disagree whilst I have mostly observed petrol selling at $2.15L it is often discounted by shopping at various supermarkets or through AA loyalty cards. Frequently lately both Pak n Save & New World have been giving coupons with 30c per litre discount on fuel by spending $200 on groceries (which is not hard to do)

So that would bring the price down to $1.85 litre converted to Euros it equals €1.12
$2.15 = €1.31 & as the following chart shows we are cheaper than many countries in Europe including Spain €1.38L which has low wages & extremely high unemployment.

UK at €1.70 - I consider exorbitant when you take into consideration how much extra fuel is used because of driving on congested roads.


Fuel prices in Europe: the cost of petrol 

The chart is updated about once every 2 months. This update April 19th 2012. The data is collected from various sources, some from official government websites, some from fuel companies' sites, and some from price comparison sites in the respective countries.

Since the last update in February Eastern Europe has seen the biggest rises in petrol prices, with Slovenia leading with a 12% increase and Poland and the Czech Republic next. But Western Europe has seen the biggest rise in diesel prices with Norway and Spain seeing rises of 16% and 13% respectively.

Norway remains most expensive for diesel, the first country to hit the 2 euro mark, and the UK comes in second dearest. Luxembourg hangs on to its position for the cheapest diesel. Norway is also the dearest country for petrol, with the UK 5th dearest, and Spain manages to remain the cheapest.

To make comparisons easier this chart shows all petrol prices in Euros to help you compare.

Petrol Prices in Europe as at April 19th 2012 in Euros

Country	Unleaded 95	

Austria € 1.52	
Belgium € 1.61	
Czech Rep € 1.48	
Denmark € 1.77	
France € 1.65	
Germany € 1.73	
Hungary € 1.53	
Ireland € 1.64	
Italy € 1.83	
Latvia € 1.48	
Luxembourg € 1.47	
Netherlands€ 1.72	
Norway	€ 1.86	
Poland	€ 1.47	
Portugal	€ 1.60	
Slovakia	€ 1.58	
Slovenia	€ 1.53	
Spain	€ 1.38	
Sweden	€ 1.68	
Switzerland € 1.50	
UK € 1.70	

I found this website interesting Top Ten Cheapest - World Petrol Prices

Comparing counties with cheap fuel UK is rated as 3rd most expensive & the cheapest is Caracas, Venezuela - 2p per litre (average)

Maybe we should all move there :clap2:


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## Scoojez

On reflection my view is/was rather skewed. I've been living in Aussie for almost 20 years so my expectations are possibly 'skewed'. Indeed food, petrol and utilities costs have increased here in Aussie too. 

I admire the Experience NZ ads on telly promoting Auckland and the Southern Alps but there's a hell of a lot more to NZ than the obvious. 

Ive been an Australian citizen for 15 years and almost weekly I receive comments about my 'down to earth, optimistic personality'. I certainly didn't inherit this from my (dys)functional family. I attribute my way of responding to the world to the privilege of being raised a kiwi. Bottle this and we gave an answer lol!


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## anski

Scoojez said:


> On reflection my view is/was rather skewed. I've been living in Aussie for almost 20 years so my expectations are possibly 'skewed'. Indeed food, petrol and utilities costs have increased here in Aussie too.
> 
> I admire the Experience NZ ads on telly promoting Auckland and the Southern Alps but there's a hell of a lot more to NZ than the obvious.
> 
> Ive been an Australian citizen for 15 years and almost weekly I receive comments about my 'down to earth, optimistic personality'. I certainly didn't inherit this from my (dys)functional family. I attribute my way of responding to the world to the privilege of being raised a kiwi. Bottle this and we gave an answer lol!


I lived in Australia for 32 years & moved to NZ 11 years ago. I go back frequently to see my family in NSW & QLD & I know that Australia has got more expensive.

Just take buying a house no stamp duty here & no capital gains tax either,no stamp duty on cars either & cars are so much cheaper here. My son drools when he sees the prices of used late model luxury cars here.

Then car registration people moan here it's expensive from memory NZ$230 & that includes ACC (used too be cheaper) but compared to Green Slip & Registration in Australia, It is CHEAP.

Wages may be lower for some but hey rents, houses, food are no longer cheap in Australia.

All depends which country you prefer at the end of the day, I prefer here. Sydney got too congested, Qld too hot & humid & that goes for nearly all of the Eastern states.

Why do you want to move back? if you are really so uncertain either don't do it or just come & try it for a spell but don't burn your bridges in Australia in case NZ is not for you.


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## anski

anski said:


> Inhamilton said [QUOTE The price of petrol is astronomical though.


Sorry I have to disagree whilst I have mostly observed petrol selling at $2.15L it is often discounted by shopping at various supermarkets or through AA loyalty cards. Frequently lately both Pak n Save & New World have been giving coupons with 30c per litre discount on fuel by spending $200 on groceries (which is not hard to do)

So that would bring the price down to $1.85 litre converted to Euros it equals €1.12
$2.15 = €1.31 & as the following chart shows we are cheaper than many countries in Europe including Spain €1.38L which has low wages & extremely high unemployment.

UK at €1.70 - I consider exorbitant when you take into consideration how much extra fuel is used because of driving on congested roads.


Fuel prices in Europe: the cost of petrol 

The chart is updated about once every 2 months. This update April 19th 2012. The data is collected from various sources, some from official government websites, some from fuel companies' sites, and some from price comparison sites in the respective countries.

Since the last update in February Eastern Europe has seen the biggest rises in petrol prices, with Slovenia leading with a 12% increase and Poland and the Czech Republic next. But Western Europe has seen the biggest rise in diesel prices with Norway and Spain seeing rises of 16% and 13% respectively.

Norway remains most expensive for diesel, the first country to hit the 2 euro mark, and the UK comes in second dearest. Luxembourg hangs on to its position for the cheapest diesel. Norway is also the dearest country for petrol, with the UK 5th dearest, and Spain manages to remain the cheapest.

To make comparisons easier this chart shows all petrol prices in Euros to help you compare.

Petrol Prices in Europe as at April 19th 2012 in Euros

Country	Unleaded 95	

Austria € 1.52	
Belgium € 1.61	
Czech Rep € 1.48	
Denmark € 1.77	
France € 1.65	
Germany € 1.73	
Hungary € 1.53	
Ireland € 1.64	
Italy € 1.83	
Latvia € 1.48	
Luxembourg € 1.47	
Netherlands€ 1.72	
Norway	€ 1.86	
Poland	€ 1.47	
Portugal	€ 1.60	
Slovakia	€ 1.58	
Slovenia	€ 1.53	
Spain	€ 1.38	
Sweden	€ 1.68	
Switzerland € 1.50	
UK € 1.70	

I found this website interesting Top Ten Cheapest - World Petrol Prices

Comparing counties with cheap fuel UK is rated as 3rd most expensive & the cheapest is Caracas, Venezuela - 2p per litre (average)

Maybe we should all move there :clap2:[/QUOTE]

Just received an email saying 35c L discount on their fuel if you buy $200 of groceries for a limited time only.


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## USAGary

sabfrance said:


> It's often the way that people remember their home country as the way it was when they left - frozen in time.
> 
> The world keeps spinning and things change. Not better, not worse, just different.
> 
> When analyzing the fortunes of the country it is easy to look at just the financials. But what price on freedom of choice, peace, the outdoors and civil liberties?
> 
> The global financial crsis has changed much but I would still rather live in a southern hemisphere location than northern.


I agree with your assessment but I am not prepared to qualitatively compare the North and South Hemispheres.

In your own words, "Not better, not worse, just different."


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## Song_Si

perhaps a better indicator than fuel is the cost of housing as a percentage of earnings; gasoline here (Thailand) takes a minimum wage earner 1 hour 20min gross wages to buy one litre (300 baht per day for 10hr day, 42 baht per litre); to make a comparison with NZ - $13.50, gasoline would have to be around NZ$18 litre to be equitable. Not a valid comparison.


from the OECD Better Life Index - NZ if number 36 on the list of 36 in the OECD countries.



> New Zealand, households on average spend 29% of their net disposable income on keeping a roof over their heads, the highest level in the OECD, where the average is 22%.


one issue is the aging population - with so many working-age people departing:

from today's NZ Herald



> *Paying for the grey tsunami*
> 
> According to widely accepted industry figures, New Zealand's total population is expected to grow by 20 per cent to 5million people by 2026, but the number of people reaching retirement age will boom by 85 per cent to just under a million over the same time frame.


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## Boodle

topcat83 said:


> ...interesting to see though that NZ is on a par with the UK for GDP per capita (they lay at 22nd & 23rd in the world) and is much better off for % public debt - 34% for NZ against 86% for the UK. (Oz beats both of us).
> 
> Unfortunately there are problems all over the world at the moment - especially in Europe. So in comparison I personally don't think we're struggling as much as other places in the world.
> 
> See List of countries by GDP (nominal) per capita - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia and List of countries by public debt - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



It just shows what statistics can prove. How about checking this link:

List of countries by GDP (PPP) per capita - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This one takes out the exchange rate factor and puts NZ just behind Slovenia and slightly ahead of Greece. Perhaps a more balanced and realistic view?


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## topcat83

Boodle said:


> It just shows what statistics can prove. How about checking this link:
> 
> List of countries by GDP (PPP) per capita - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> This one takes out the exchange rate factor and puts NZ just behind Slovenia and slightly ahead of Greece. Perhaps a more balanced and realistic view?


Statistics, statistics and [email protected] lies, eh? So true.

I supposed the point to make is that us who live here (generally) don't feel we're doing any worse than the rest of the world at the moment, and are doing much better than some. 

Also our lives may not be full of gadgets but the quality of our life makes up for it in other ways.


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## Boodle

topcat83 said:


> Statistics, statistics and [email protected] lies, eh? So true.
> 
> I supposed the point to make is that us who live here (generally) don't feel we're doing any worse than the rest of the world at the moment, and are doing much better than some.
> 
> Also our lives may not be full of gadgets but the quality of our life makes up for it in other ways.


This is true. Using GDP per capita etc. is only an indication. A more accurate method would be to use the McDonald's Index (or whatever it's called) i.e. how long do you need to work to afford a Big Mac?

Alternatively, how much of your wage is left after all deductions and paying for essentials lke accommodation, food, heating etc.

As long as you have enough to afford what you need/want there is no need for a shed load of gadgets.


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## inhamilton

Boodle said:


> It just shows what statistics can prove. How about checking this link:
> 
> List of countries by GDP (PPP) per capita - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> This one takes out the exchange rate factor and puts NZ just behind Slovenia and slightly ahead of Greece. Perhaps a more balanced and realistic view?


Still ... 32nd in the world out of 190 countries on the list. Pretty good. 

Plus (according to wikipedia) :
PPP largely removes the exchange rate problem, but has its own drawbacks; it does not reflect the value of economic output in international trade, and it also requires more estimation than GDP (nominal) per capita.


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## topcat83

Boodle said:


> ...A more accurate method would be to use the McDonald's Index (or whatever it's called) i.e. how long do you need to work to afford a Big Mac?
> ...


I think we ought to submit this unit to New Scientist as an unusual but useful unit of measure...


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## anski

Boodle said:


> This is true. Using GDP per capita etc. is only an indication. A more accurate method would be to use the McDonald's Index (or whatever it's called) i.e. how long do you need to work to afford a Big Mac?


What if you do not eat McDonalds?


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## topcat83

anski said:


> What if you do not eat McDonalds?


How about the new KFC chicken, mash & gravy pie?


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## Boodle

topcat83 said:


> I think we ought to submit this unit to New Scientist as an unusual but useful unit of measure...




The Economist already use it. Check this


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## Boodle

anski said:


> What if you do not eat McDonalds?


Bloody vegetarians.


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## Boodle

inhamilton said:


> Still ... 32nd in the world out of 190 countries on the list. Pretty good.
> 
> Plus (according to wikipedia) :
> PPP largely removes the exchange rate problem, but has its own drawbacks; it does not reflect the value of economic output in international trade, and it also requires more estimation than GDP (nominal) per capita.


Hence the economist using the Big Mac Index. Probably still not the best way. I prefer looking at what %age of your salary is left after paying for essentials. I have seen surveys using this method to compare the Eurozone countries. They also included GB but then converted the £ to Euros which defeated the object of the exercise as GB was up and down like a yo-yo compared to Germany, France etc. depending on the exchange rate.


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## Davey crockett

Scoojez said:


> I'm trying to remain optimistic about our plans to return to NZ . The ongoing media reports of a struggling economy seem to echo the early 90's and our reason for high tailing it out of there.
> 
> It seems kiwis can't afford to live in their own country. Long standing small businesses closing their doors, increasing mortgagee repossessions, cutbacks in education and other public services.
> 
> I see so many posts regarding people wanting to emigrate to NZ. I'm intrigued to know what professions these newcomers are in? Retirees? Movie Producers?
> 
> Maybe it's the government's grand plan


I currently live in the UK and have a long held desire to move, permanently, to NZ. I am recently divorced and got pretty cleaned out! I have been offered a permanent position in North Palmeston, on $85k per year. I will be arriving eith about $50k to set myself up - buy a house, car, etc etc. Will I cope? Its just me and my fiancee, and 2 dogs! We do not have expensive tastes at all, but want to be able to afford to live, and not just survive. Thoughts very much appreciated!


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## inhamilton

In my opinion, you should be fine on $84,000 per year in Palmerston North. That's a pretty good salary. Also houses there are probably about half the price of Auckland, so that's a good start. Perhaps you could rent for a while first so that you'll get an idea of your standard of living before committing yourself totally.


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