# Do you respect the country that pays your salary???



## Free_Spirit (Aug 30, 2009)

I was tought by my parents that when I go to someone's else house, I need to respect the rules of that house and same goes for the country. 
If I go to Saudi Arabia or Iran, I cannot uncover my head or shoulders just because I am different religion or culture. 
Why so many people, including this forum, make unrespectable comments about arabs, muslims, way of life, etc here? I don't defend anyone but I really can't get it - what are you doing here if you don't like it? Go back home and enjoy your usual environment. You ARE in a muslim country, and this country pays you looks like better than your home country, so what the he.l? Do you agree?


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

I agree to a point Definately, Saudi is different and its not for people to go and try to change it - their rules and ways are to be respected! However, sometimes this forum gives people a chance to let off steam!

Jo xxx


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## Elphaba (Jan 24, 2008)

If you make a choice to move to another country then you have to accept the laws and live by them. That said, it does not mean you cannot disagree with some of them and want to change them.

I don't think you can say the country pays salaries either. Many people are working for international companies or are self-employed so are really getting little from the UAE itself.

-


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## Free_Spirit (Aug 30, 2009)

Elphaba said:


> If you make a choice to move to another country then you have to accept the laws and live by them. That said, it does not mean you cannot disagree with some of them and want to change them.
> 
> I don't think you can say the country pays salaries either. Many people are working for international companies or are self-employed so are really getting little from the UAE itself.
> 
> -


I disagree, the salary range in UAE is much better than in the same company in other countries as hardly anywhere else in the world you will get your house, car insurance, fuel etc paid by the company.


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## Elphaba (Jan 24, 2008)

Ella_and_Yousef said:


> I disagree, the salary range in UAE is much better than in the same company in other countries as hardly anywhere else in the world you will get your house, car insurance, fuel etc paid by the company.


Just a few people are are feather-bed packages these days & what has that got to do with the government unless they are working for a government entity? I have hundreds of clients in the UAE and I can assure you that fewer and fewer people are on full packages.

Please re-read my post to understand what I am saying.

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## Andy Capp (Oct 5, 2008)

Ella_and_Yousef said:


> I disagree, the salary range in UAE is much better than in the same company in other countries as hardly anywhere else in the world you will get your house, car insurance, fuel etc paid by the company.


It's paid in that way (allowances etc.) so that the company don't have to pay bigger gratuities (as end of service is based purely on basic). And having housing etc. "given" to you by employers is common practice the world over for expats that are hired from abroad.

As for salary range, to compare like for like - eg Emirates and BA - the salaries Emirates pay are rubbish in comparison, ie a lot less than half the equivalent person is on in the UK and yes, that includes all allowances.

At the other end of the scale, a lot of the labourers her are paid more than in their home country - you just have to see the (relative) amount they send back each month to see that, so in that respect, yes they are paid more.

Horses for courses I guess...


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## Free_Spirit (Aug 30, 2009)

Elphaba said:


> Just a few people are are feather-bed packages these days & what has that got to do with the government unless they are working for a government entity? I have hundreds of clients in the UAE and I can assure you that fewer and fewer people are on full packages.
> 
> Please re-read my post to understand what I am saying.
> 
> -


No need to re-read, I can speak English )
anyhow the concept in not about the salary, but about attitude people express towards muslims and arabs and in return we hear from them - porkeaters
it's a sad ping pong, isn't it?


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Ella_and_Yousef said:


> No need to re-read, I can speak English )
> anyhow the concept in not about the salary, but about attitude people express towards muslims and arabs and in return we hear from them - porkeaters
> it's a sad ping pong, isn't it?



Its unfortunately how humans are - tribal!

Jo xxx


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## Free_Spirit (Aug 30, 2009)

jojo said:


> Its unfortunately how humans are - tribal!
> 
> Jo xxx


yap, very sad, people forget the real values of life


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## mrbig (Sep 10, 2009)

Live in thier country, respect thier rules. The end.


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## Gavtek (Aug 23, 2009)

I follow the rules, I don't respect them or the UAE really.

Emiratis don't want me in their country, they want to use my skills to bring wealth to them then kick me out when they don't need me any more.

I'm here to use my skills to bring wealth to myself so I don't have to stay any longer than I have to.

If I wasn't treated with contempt and wasn't prohibited from putting roots down here I may feel differently.


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## Jynxgirl (Nov 27, 2009)

This country isnt nearly as strict as other countries, and as such, I agreed to come here for half of what I would have gotten if I had went to one of the other countries over here. I had the choice to go to different countries and we were not required to wear the garb regardless of any place that I choose (iraq, afghan, qatar, kuwait). I choose here simply because I would have to deal with less from the 'locals'. 

This is a muslim dominated country, so be it. I am not muslim, so will not follow muslim ways. My emirati friend is perfectly fine with me the way I am and we get along quite well. Respect their rules and obey laws. Other then that, I dont have to respect a whole lot. I dont go along with the status quo 'christianity' crazies at home either.


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## dizzyizzy (Mar 30, 2008)

I follow the rules and obey the law. 

As for respect, that is another thing. I believe it should be earned, and should go *both *ways. If I feel fully respected both as a foreign of whatever nationality I am, and also as a woman, this nation and its nationals will have my full respect. Unfortunately I've had a couple of bad experiences where I have been personally bullied and harrassed therefore my level of respect remains neutral. I hope my future interactions with Emiratis go better


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## Felixtoo2 (Jan 16, 2009)

Agree with Gavtek, to respect a country that only let`s you stay here because they can`t run it for themselves you really have no self respect. As Andy touched on, you only have to look at the way Emirates has been treating it`s pilots over the past couple of years to see how much respect expat proffessionals receive for their labours. We are here to do what they can`t and to take the money and leave. This country doesn`t want you the just need you!!


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## titirangi (Aug 14, 2008)

mrbig said:


> Live in thier country, respect thier rules. The end.


Yep, and if you don't like it, leave. or go find a message board and have a good (harmless) moan.


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## Free_Spirit (Aug 30, 2009)

I am surprised... we have lots of Emarati friends very educated and respectable people open-minded and conservative at the same time with a fair balance of both, sorry about your bad experiences


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## indigora (Feb 9, 2010)

yes, there are many a good Emirati, but it's that bad apple that we always think about, or that gets on our nerves. I agree with Andy, learn it, live it, and Be Have!! Grrrrwl! Anyway, one must learn the rules before they can break them. In the words of Frost, "why not go out on a limb, isn't that where the fruit is?"


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## sandypool (Sep 12, 2009)

I think the crux of the issue is that unlike ex-pats in our home countries who are entitled to stand up and have their voices heard, here in the UAE, questioning the establishment is Taboo. Therefore you tend to find people come onto these forums to vent, for fear of recriminations for doing so in public.

I whole heartedly agree that as individuals I would struggle to point to a Local person I have met and didn't like. My local friends, and others I have met have never been anything other than welcoming and generally lovely. Overly obsessed with revving their engines at 2am but that's another story!

My problem is, I find a theocratic society difficult to relate to my own values. I respect to an extent anyone's ability to have faith in anything, but as someone who thinks it odd to believe in a religion and god that didn't show up until 4 billion years after the earth was created, i have a problem with it playing any part in the running of a society.

My biggest problem is that I was a Student Union President and so spent 4 years in college campaigning for equal rights for women, black students, Muslims, Jews, gay students and those with disabilities (non exhaustive) and so laws which actively seek to discriminate against any such groups, rile me.

I actually really like the UAE, the climate, the multiculturalism, the locals. But I don't like Government discrimination and that will always prevent me from 100% respecting the country.

I do however respect the achievements they have made, and the moves towards a more moderate society. I respect the Arab hospitality and the warmth I have been shown. I also respect Shwarma & Sheisha!

Basically I am not having a go, I am just pointing to the reasons why some may find certain aspects of society here hard to deal with, and I think it better that they come on here and have a little rant than let it build up and get them down.


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## Elphaba (Jan 24, 2008)

Good post sandypool :clap2:

-


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## Free_Spirit (Aug 30, 2009)

sandypool said:


> I think the crux of the issue is that unlike ex-pats in our home countries who are entitled to stand up and have their voices heard, here in the UAE, questioning the establishment is Taboo. Therefore you tend to find people come onto these forums to vent, for fear of recriminations for doing so in public.
> 
> I whole heartedly agree that as individuals I would struggle to point to a Local person I have met and didn't like. My local friends, and others I have met have never been anything other than welcoming and generally lovely. Overly obsessed with revving their engines at 2am but that's another story!
> 
> ...



wish everyone would have your wisdom !!!


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## sandypool (Sep 12, 2009)

awww shucks guys! Wisdom? that makes me sound old hehe. No the thing is I really understand what you mean - I can't bear my expat friends when all they do is moan about being here, but a little rant online can be healthy as long as we all take it in the way it is intended.

Bottom line the UAE is what you make of it. A positive attitude goes a long way. Where else can you be in Liwa Desert one day with local friends enjoying the local culture and the next skiing in Dubai before heading to Hofbrauhaus for an entirely European day. Plus I get more visits from friends these days than I ever did living in Croydon!!!


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## Free_Spirit (Aug 30, 2009)

sandypool said:


> awww shucks guys! Wisdom? that makes me sound old hehe. No the thing is I really understand what you mean - I can't bear my expat friends when all they do is moan about being here, but a little rant online can be healthy as long as we all take it in the way it is intended.
> 
> Bottom line the UAE is what you make of it. A positive attitude goes a long way. Where else can you be in Liwa Desert one day with local friends enjoying the local culture and the next skiing in Dubai before heading to Hofbrauhaus for an entirely European day. Plus I get more visits from friends these days than I ever did living in Croydon!!!


cool, me too, I have lots of friends and relatives visits from other countries - Dubai is easy access from everywhere and getting a visa is not an issue


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## Andy Capp (Oct 5, 2008)

sandypool said:


> I get more visits from friends these days than I ever did living in Croydon!!!


And that surprises you?

Hmm, Croydon with it's trams and chavs, or Dubai with it's metro and dishdashs....


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## sandypool (Sep 12, 2009)

Andy Capp said:


> And that surprises you?
> 
> Hmm, Croydon with it's trams and chavs, or Dubai with it's metro and dishdashs....


Haha - the only positive thing I can say about Croydon - easy commute to work and city for nights out. I had a scary experience on the Tram once - I am trying to forget it.


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## Local (Feb 9, 2010)

I understand that it's difficult for the majority of expats to relate to anything that's not a democracy. But I think Dubai, and the UAE, is a glowing example of how sometimes development requires the flexibility/mobility of a theocratic society rather than the slow pace of a democracy.

You should always keep in mind that this city and country was a democracy before it became theocratic. 

Each person was part of a family (example: Al Maktoum). Every family had a self-appointed representative head/leader (example: Shaikh Mohammed Al Maktoum). 

Families were then part of tribes (example: Shaikh Mohammed Al Maktoum of the Bu Falasah tribe). Families appointed an INDIVIDUAL as the head of the tribe - this appointment was dependant on the ability of the candidate to bring prosperity and included a quasi-election campaign. This person was, in effect, a democratically elected president.

The head of each tribe was responsible for the "foreign" affairs of the tribe - i.e. in dealing with other tribes - as well as the domestic affairs of the tribe - i.e. in the overall strategy of the tribe's economy, rulings, etc.

More often than not, tribal disputes were settled by an independent arbitrator from another tribe. Much like politics today, these disputes would sometimes escalate beyond the point of arbitration.

It was only when these tribes and families landed on a gold mine that it became necessary to centralize power to one tribe rather than one individual, to ensure that decision making remained quick and flexible. A good example is that the Al Nahyan family was voted as the head of the tribe indefinitely.

The transition is not a coincidence. The people running this coutnry are also fully aware of the advantages of a democracy and therefore we are seeing slow but steady efforts to implement the organs of a democratic government. This process will no doubt take time for a number of reasons - the most important of which is the appropriate timing of the change for UAE nationals, the qualifications/experience of UAE nationals, and confidence that the system put in place is strong enough to hold.

For a great example of a failed and rushed democracy, please see Kuwait. A poor attempt, barely a democracy if at all, and constantly re-shuffling. No progress since day 1.

On a personal note, please understand that this country needs help from non-UAE nationals, but this country does not need YOU personally. I assure you that if you expressed your view to the government, they would very quickly illustrate to you how much they "need" you. What this country needs is people to come and HELP and the only reason there are expats in Dubai with a "me me me, love me" attitude is because it is virtually impossible to distinguish between someone who gives a damn about Dubai and someone who doesn't - especially when waving a wad of cash in front of their faces.

I assure the rest that Emaratis sincerely appreciate the efforts of expats who actually care about this culture, this country and this economy alongside, ofcourse, their own personal interests. Thank you for supporting this country like a home away from home.


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## sandypool (Sep 12, 2009)

I hope we haven't got crossed wires Local - I sincerely do enjoy being in this country and trust me it's not the money, yes I have difficulties relating to a theocratic government, but that's mainly, as I said, because I grew up in a secular democracy. This doesn't mean that I don't appreciate what the ruling families have achieved and of particular importance is the "love" Emiratis have for historical and current leaders, especially Sheikh Zayed the father of the nation. Moreover I consider myself a guest here and don't presume, or expect, that I should have any influence over how things are run.

All I am getting at is that, for want of a better description, you can take the boy out the democracy but not the democracy out of the boy, it is difficult to adjust your entire mentality when coming from a place where we (very often) openly criticise our elected leaders, (which is ironic when I have never heard an Emirati complain about their hereditary leaders!)

For that reason I think a little rant is healthy, and on here, it doesn't do any harm.


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## SimoneHermsone (Feb 22, 2010)

Key thing to understand about the UAE, and Mideast in general, is that you can criticize the process, but not the personality. Most of the time you can discuss pretty much freely just how terrible x and y is, just don't blame it on a person...


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## pmac34 (Jan 4, 2010)

To all who have joined in this debate, thank you - I have learned something new today. It is good to get opinions from both sides - local and expat.

Although I only arrive with my family in Dubai in April, I can honestly say that I really look forward to experiencing a new country and a new culture. Having worked in many other countries around the world and yes, getting paid well, the best thing that I have taken away from everywhere I have visited is an appreciation for local people, their country and their cultures. I have not agreed with a lot of the local politics and laws in these countries, however I have accepted them on the basis that I am a visitor in their country. It is no more than I would expect from a visitor to my own home country, which has many faults of its own.

An open mind in such situations does go a long way as well as respect for you fellow human beings although, as I have found, this may not be reciprocated. You should research and know the rules and laws of a country you are visiting and if they conflict with you own belief systems then do not go.

Finally I would say that having a forum like this to blow off steam is a great idea and I look forward to many such rants in the future.


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## Free_Spirit (Aug 30, 2009)

pmac34 said:


> To all who have joined in this debate, thank you - I have learned something new today. It is good to get opinions from both sides - local and expat.
> 
> Although I only arrive with my family in Dubai in April, I can honestly say that I really look forward to experiencing a new country and a new culture. Having worked in many other countries around the world and yes, getting paid well, the best thing that I have taken away from everywhere I have visited is an appreciation for local people, their country and their cultures. I have not agreed with a lot of the local politics and laws in these countries, however I have accepted them on the basis that I am a visitor in their country. It is no more than I would expect from a visitor to my own home country, which has many faults of its own.
> 
> ...


fun is guaranteed ))


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## marc (Mar 10, 2008)

sandypool said:


> I hope we haven't got crossed wires Local - I sincerely do enjoy being in this country and trust me it's not the money.


Your not here for the money!

I am!! 

I cant really think of another reason for being here...


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## Free_Spirit (Aug 30, 2009)

:clap2: don't know why others are trying hard to hide it ))))



marc said:


> Your not here for the money!
> 
> I am!!
> 
> I cant really think of another reason for being here...


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## Elphaba (Jan 24, 2008)

I think that staying in Dubai _only_ for the money is a route to unhappiness. 

-


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## Free_Spirit (Aug 30, 2009)

Elphaba said:


> I think that staying in Dubai _only_ for the money is a route to unhappiness.
> 
> -


Nobody said it's only money, however indeed I can't think of another prime reason for that. I don't think expats in this country are so kind just to come and help UAE to grow for minor salary or is anyone so dumn to come here on their own will if they can make more money back home? Can't get it...


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## Elphaba (Jan 24, 2008)

Ella_and_Yousef said:


> Nobody said it's only money, however indeed I can't think of another prime reason for that. I don't think expats in this country are so kind just to come and help UAE to grow for minor salary or is anyone so dumn to come here on their own will if they can make more money back home? Can't get it...


I know that English is not your first language, but you have misunderstood what I said.

-


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## Free_Spirit (Aug 30, 2009)

Elphaba said:


> I know that English is not your first language, but you have misunderstood what I said.
> 
> -


I know that rules of the forum do not allow personal attacks and insalt. I think my 
English is very good for Russian:focus:


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## Elphaba (Jan 24, 2008)

Ella_and_Yousef said:


> I know that rules of the forum do not allow personal attacks and insalt. I think my
> English is very good for Russian:focus:


No one has said you speak bad English. I simply recognised that it is not your first language so you have misunderstood my meaning. There has been no personal attacks on you. Posters on this forum are free to disagree with your comments and many have done so, in milder terms that you have used against other people.

-


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## sandypool (Sep 12, 2009)

marc said:


> Your not here for the money!
> 
> I am!!
> 
> I cant really think of another reason for being here...


Well I don't get paid anymore than at home.

For me the primary reasons were; getting into the line of work that interests me most and having a bit of an adventure at the same time.

I had a similar job offer in the UK with similar salary (taking into account the taxation) but the opportunity to come here was what swayed me.

I like the climate, I like the location (it enables me to travel to a lot of the places I like), I have good friends here, both local and expat and I enjoy being part of something new.

I am not going to say that my reason to be here is to help develop the country. 1. I think that I would be being quite arrogant to assume that what I am doing here is of any use to anyone in terms of the development of the UAE and 2. I am not that selfless. I do however enjoy being part of something new in a place that, despite all the recent financial problems, feels like it can achieve anything.

I do like being paid to though!


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## Free_Spirit (Aug 30, 2009)

Elphaba said:


> No one has said you speak bad English. I simply recognised that it is not your first language so you have misunderstood my meaning. There has been no personal attacks on you. Posters on this forum are free to disagree with your comments and many have done so, in milder terms that you have used against other people.
> 
> -


didn't mean to upset anyone, maybe misunderstanding because of my "English" 
sorry, Elphaba, I am mean


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## Jynxgirl (Nov 27, 2009)

Money for me. I hear 'means to and end" from people here alot. Its a route to pay off my bachelors and get me thru my masters, so I can go into a biology field and make very little but to love what I do. And thus be happy and broke  

If I wanted to go live in a desert, the usa has beautiful deserts without the restrictions.


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## lady4dubai (Feb 23, 2010)

*Beg to differ*

Hi, umm you should think a bit more before saying you get little from the UAE. First of all, if the salary in your country was good you would not be here. Second, you have the comfort of security and can walk around safely, which you don't have in most counties. Third you have security that there is minimal chance for your daughters being raped. Fourth, you have the security of knowing that kidnapping is very very low here, not so in other countries. You all are in such good shape financially and with security and to top it off you can run around and party, go to the beaches, which many locals cannot do anymore because of nakedness every where. Locals and Arab Muslims are the poor people in this situation as many places we cannot enter because of indecent dress and actions. I am not being rude or having a tone I am just putting out facts. Expats need to feel the state that the Muslim community is going through and be understanding and greatful. Socialize with arabs and get a sence of who they are and again people,,, be greatful...
Peace







Elphaba said:


> If you make a choice to move to another country then you have to accept the laws and live by them. That said, it does not mean you cannot disagree with some of them and want to change them.
> 
> I don't think you can say the country pays salaries either. Many people are working for international companies or are self-employed so are really getting little from the UAE itself.
> 
> -


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## Jynxgirl (Nov 27, 2009)

Hum.. I think Elphaba is one of the most positive white wave flagging for UAE on the forums. I dont think it was coming across what she was saying well or it just was lost in transit. 

That nakedness comment kind of throws me for a loop.


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## marc (Mar 10, 2008)

Elphaba said:


> I think that staying in Dubai _only_ for the money is a route to unhappiness.
> 
> -



Not for me, I have a plan and goal to achieve then I'm leaving....


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## Free_Spirit (Aug 30, 2009)

lady4dubai said:


> there is minimal chance for your daughters being raped
> 
> And this is 1000000000 times more precious than any money


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## lady4dubai (Feb 23, 2010)

*@Ella_and_Yousef*

Thx Ella/Yousef, I totally agree, people here are so lucky, they have safety and money but few appreciate it.....





Ella_and_Yousef said:


> lady4dubai said:
> 
> 
> > there is minimal chance for your daughters being raped
> ...


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## Free_Spirit (Aug 30, 2009)

lady4dubai said:


> Thx Ella/Yousef, I totally agree, people here are so lucky, they have safety and money but few appreciate it.....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Elphaba (Jan 24, 2008)

Ella_and_Yousef said:


> Believe me, they are and they know it, it's just that their pride does not let them admit it. Otherwise why would they stuck in UAE for ages Just don't take statements about arabs and locals personal, many europeans just envy the wealth and style of life you have... As much as they european woman is free (thinks that she is free), it's her and not local arab woman, who has to work hard to earn money, clean her house, wake up in the nights for the kids, limit herself in shopping and outing, drive cheap car, etc (talking about majority of those, who live back homes as here europeans indeed have a good life)
> P.S. Expecting many attacks from europeans now ))) ready for it ))))



Oh for heaven's sake, no one has ever attacked you. 

So your definition of 'freedom' is to be a kept woman? To be financed by a husband? (And in many cases subject soleley to his wishes.) I think you will find that to many modern woman that is the opposite of freedom. 

-


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## Free_Spirit (Aug 30, 2009)

Elphaba said:


> Oh for heaven's sake, no one has ever attacked you.
> 
> So your definition of 'freedom' is to be a kept woman? To be financed by a husband? (And in many cases subject soleley to his wishes.) I think you will find that to many modern woman that is the opposite of freedom.
> 
> -


i make my statements based on comments from my european colleagues and friends - most of them can't afford to drive same car they do here back home for example - 1. price of car is higher, 2. fuel is expensive

i don't find anything wrong to be financed by a husband and i bet majority of women are dreaming of it, but because their husband can't buy them a Bentley or Aston Martin (as for example, my local friend's husband did a few months ago), they start to criticize local women.

they travel, they go out, they are well dressed, they drive expensive cars, as per my knowledge many of them have private villas in Switzerland or whereever, they are not bitten by their husbands, their marriage is protected, even if their husband marries another woman, he HAS to treat both the same, which is far not the case anywhere else in the world


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## lady4dubai (Feb 23, 2010)

*@Ella_and_Yousef*

Hey Ella,
Ya, but I think we could all learn from eachother, take the good points and learn to be better people. It's true many locals have a posh life but at what cost also? They would find it harder to survive if they suddenly have to work a physical job and actually raise their own kids, they would have a tough time because they are not used to it. I know women who have 4/5 kids but have probley rarely given their kids a bath or changed a diaper. I am local but originally from the USA, I have been here for 17 years and all my friends are local/Arabs and every culture has negative points and I WISH we could take the good from eachother and leave the negative. Also I wish people coming into the UAE would RESPECT our culture and be modest in their dressing/modest meaning, minimal/no cleavage, skirts to the knees and nothing see through....
Thx





Ella_and_Yousef said:


> lady4dubai said:
> 
> 
> > Thx Ella/Yousef, I totally agree, people here are so lucky, they have safety and money but few appreciate it.....
> ...


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## Free_Spirit (Aug 30, 2009)

i am fairly fine with all the nationalities, but i am just slightly irritated that people in the other parts of the world still think that arab women live like prisoners

some of my friends when they knew i am getting married to an arab, asked me - are you going to cover your face now? it's hilarious, as my husband didn't even ask me to convert, he takes a good care of me, respects me, let me do pretty much everything i want as long as it in line with respect to our marriage, i go to the beach, i swim, i have ladies nights out, i travel on my own, etc 
let everyone enjoy their lives without criticizing other cultures especially when they are living in that environment, that's what i stand for


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## Free_Spirit (Aug 30, 2009)

lady4dubai said:


> Hey Ella,
> Ya, but I think we could all learn from eachother, take the good points and learn to be better people. It's true many locals have a posh life but at what cost also? They would find it harder to survive if they suddenly have to work a physical job and actually raise their own kids, they would have a tough time because they are not used to it. I know women who have 4/5 kids but have probley rarely given their kids a bath or changed a diaper. I am local but originally from the USA, I have been here for 17 years and all my friends are local/Arabs and every culture has negative points and I WISH we could take the good from eachother and leave the negative. Also I wish people coming into the UAE would RESPECT our culture and be modest in their dressing/modest meaning, minimal/no cleavage, skirts to the knees and nothing see through....
> Thx
> 
> ...


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## Elphaba (Jan 24, 2008)

Ella_and_Yousef said:


> i make my statements based on comments from my european colleagues and friends - most of them can't afford to drive same car they do here back home for example - 1. price of car is higher, 2. fuel is expensive
> 
> i don't find anything wrong to be financed by a husband and i bet majority of women are dreaming of it, but because their husband can't buy them a Bentley or Aston Martin (as for example, my local friend's husband did a few months ago), they start to criticize local women.
> 
> they travel, they go out, they are well dressed, they drive expensive cars, as per my knowledge many of them have private villas in Switzerland or whereever, they *are not bitten by their husbands*, their marriage is protected, even if their husband marries another woman, he HAS to treat both the same, which is far not the case anywhere else in the world


 You are hilarious! Are you living in the 1930's? Have you not heard of equality?

The women I know do not want to be kept playthings and would never accept their husband being unfaithful by taking a second wife. And Western men bite their wives?? 

Happiness is not about being given expensive toys or living in, what is for many woman that you describe, a gilded cage. I am sure you have previously said that happiness is not about money, but now you contradict yourself again by claiming that it is. 

-


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## Free_Spirit (Aug 30, 2009)

Elphaba said:


> You are hilarious! Are you living in the 1930's? Have you not heard of equality?
> 
> The women I know do not want to be kept playthings and would never accept their husband being unfaithful by taking a second wife. And Western men bite their wives??
> 
> ...


sorry Elphaba, i will stop replying your comments, as looks like we don't understand each others English, precisely because English is not my native language ))))


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## lady4dubai (Feb 23, 2010)

*@Elphaba*

Hi Elphaba,

So can I ask what you definition of freedom is?
First of all ALL women are kept by their husbands if you think about it, and some local women work to make their own money and some do not, just like women everywhere. If you yourself are not working, your being finaced by your hubby, and many many European men are controling and his wife MUST obey so why do you put this only on us?
So is you definition of freedom that you work, you make your own money and that is it??? If so that is a low standard for freedom








Elphaba said:


> Oh for heaven's sake, no one has ever attacked you.
> 
> So your definition of 'freedom' is to be a kept woman? To be financed by a husband? (And in many cases subject soleley to his wishes.) I think you will find that to many modern woman that is the opposite of freedom.
> 
> -


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## Elphaba (Jan 24, 2008)

lady4dubai said:


> Hi Elphaba,
> 
> So can I ask what you definition of freedom is?
> First of all ALL women are kept by their husbands if you think about it, and some local women work to make their own money and some do not, just like women everywhere. If you yourself are not working, your being finaced by your hubby, and many many European men are controling and his wife MUST obey so why do you put this only on us?
> So is you definition of freedom that you work, you make your own money and that is it??? If so that is a low standard for freedom


All women are NOT kept by their husbands. 

Freedom is choice. You may choose to be kept & subserviant to your husband, many of us do not.

If you has been around here a while you would know that I am not a kept woman. The links in my signature amply demonstrate that.

-

-


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## Elphaba (Jan 24, 2008)

Ella_and_Yousef said:


> sorry Elphaba, i will stop replying your comments, as looks like we don't understand each others English, precisely because English is not my native language ))))


I have understood what you said. You have stated that you think that ALL women want to be kept & are made happy by money. I disagree.

Please stop trying to have things both ways. If you make a bold statement then stick by it. 

-


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## Free_Spirit (Aug 30, 2009)

Elphaba said:


> I have understood what you said. You have stated that you think that ALL women want to be kept & are made happy by money. I disagree.
> 
> Please stop trying to have things both ways. If you make a bold statement then stick by it.
> 
> -


hehehehehee you made my day, that's not at all what I said )))))
see, I couldn't even keep my word and not reply, it's so rediculous
anyways, i think this thread gave some experience same as big big fun to many who read it, otherwise this forum start to be too boring - talking about which apartment to rent, how to find a job and how to pick up a guy/girl
have a nice day:eyebrows:


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## Elphaba (Jan 24, 2008)

Ella_and_Yousef said:


> hehehehehee you made my day, that's not at all what I said )))))
> see, I couldn't even keep my word and not reply, it's so rediculous
> anyways, i think this thread gave some experience same as big big fun to many who read it, otherwise this forum start to be too boring - talking about which apartment to rent, how to find a job and how to pick up a guy/girl
> have a nice day:eyebrows:


OK, you didn't say all, but you did say the majority want that.  

I still disagree though... 

-


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## Free_Spirit (Aug 30, 2009)

Elphaba said:


> OK, you didn't say all, but you did say the majority want that.
> 
> I still disagree though...
> 
> -


i propose white flag and peace, i don't support ladies fight as it gives too much pleasure to men, let them go back to work and earn money for their wives


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## lady4dubai (Feb 23, 2010)

*@Elphaba*

My dear,
No woman wants to be a plaything to her husband, don't insult us by making people think that it is ok with us and how many European men CHEAT on their wife, but that is different right? As long as there is no attachment either physically/emotionally? How many married men have affairs and what happens if she gets pregnant? To bad so sad he dumps her and leaves her to raise a child alone? Islam gives women dignity and Allah knowing that 85% of men cheat due to many reasons, mostly desire, Allah declared that he can have more than one wife IF he can afford it, he must be equal with them in every aspect and respect them. So now isn't that better than going around humping anything infront of your face, having illegitimate kids? It is not something we Muslim women like, no one want to share their man but I truly believe it is a better more respecable alternative to ******* kids and whores.






Elphaba said:


> You are hilarious! Are you living in the 1930's? Have you not heard of equality?
> 
> The women I know do not want to be kept playthings and would never accept their husband being unfaithful by taking a second wife. And Western men bite their wives??
> 
> ...


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## marc (Mar 10, 2008)

Girl power!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Elphaba (Jan 24, 2008)

lady4dubai said:


> My dear,
> No woman wants to be a plaything to her husband, don't insult us by making people think that it is ok with us and how many European men CHEAT on their wife, but that is different right? As long as there is no attachment either physically/emotionally? How many married men have affairs and what happens if she gets pregnant? To bad so sad he dumps her and leaves her to raise a child alone? Islam gives women dignity and Allah knowing that 85% of men cheat due to many reasons, mostly desire, Allah declared that he can have more than one wife IF he can afford it, he must be equal with them in every aspect and respect them. So now isn't that better than going around humping anything infront of your face, having illegitimate kids? It is not something we Muslim women like, no one want to share their man but I truly believe it is a better more respecable alternative to ******* kids and whores.



Not all European men are cheats in the same men than not all Arab men are fine husbands. Evidence is rather to the contrary in fact. I disagree with pretty much all that you say, but I will not get into that kind of argument on this board.

Your last sentence (as well as a number of others) is very insulting and I ask you to desist from making such anti-Western comments. As an American, where the issue of equality is important, I would have expected you to have known better.

-


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## marc (Mar 10, 2008)

shes like some Extremist... its a bit scary...


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## lady4dubai (Feb 23, 2010)

*Elphaba*

Before I am anything I am a Muslim first and and Emirati second and Euopean blood third. And while 80% of local men are terrible husbands and ignorant about their roles as husbands and fathers, the fact remains that MEN CHEAT and it is better to give the other woman and any possible kids respect and dignity. Western woman are only concerned with sharing the physical/financial/emotional aspect of poligamy and like I said, we may not like it but in the relm of religion it makes more sence, but most people don't think abou God anyway so they cannot understand.







Elphaba said:


> Not all European men are cheats in the same men than not all Arab men are fine husbands. Evidence is rather to the contrary in fact. I disagree with pretty much all that you say, but I will not get into that kind of argument on this board.
> 
> Your last sentence (as well as a number of others) is very insulting and I ask you to desist from making such anti-Western comments. As an American, where the issue of equality is important, I would have expected you to have known better.
> 
> -


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## Elphaba (Jan 24, 2008)

lady4dubai said:


> Before I am anything I am a Muslim first and and Emirati second and Euopean blood third. And while 80% of local men are terrible husbands and ignorant about their roles as husbands and fathers, the fact remains that MEN CHEAT and it is better to give the other woman and any possible kids respect and dignity. Western woman are only concerned with sharing the physical/financial/emotional aspect of poligamy and like I said, we may not like it but in the relm of religion it makes more sence, but most people don't think abou God anyway so they cannot understand.


Yes, some men cheat and some women cheat. So? Local men cheat and so do some local women. And your point is? What has that to do with giving (?) women respect and dignity? If the majority of men are lousy husbands, I would say there is even more reason for women to be financially independent and to reclaim their dignity by not being kept by or solely reliant on a man. 

Many people don't think about god as they don't believe in he/she/it. 

-


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## Free_Spirit (Aug 30, 2009)

lady4dubai said:


> Before I am anything I am a Muslim first and and Emirati second and Euopean blood third. And while 80% of local men are terrible husbands and ignorant about their roles as husbands and fathers, the fact remains that MEN CHEAT and it is better to give the other woman and any possible kids respect and dignity. Western woman are only concerned with sharing the physical/financial/emotional aspect of poligamy and like I said, we may not like it but in the relm of religion it makes more sence, but most people don't think abou God anyway so they cannot understand.


I am well aware about Islam (being a Christian) and I perfectly understand and agree to what you say, however I prefer to continue in a private messages cuz as I said, don't expect everyone to admit obvious things. People are against Islam and that's unfortune, they believe to what mass media says about Islam which is very vice versa. I have a huge respect to this religion and yes, not all muslims are Muslims, however when it comes to Ramadan and comments about Allah, even the very very Moroccan (sorry for this comment) will fast and never insult Allah, while us, Christians make caricatures on Jesus Christ and other Prophets, shame on us.


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## lady4dubai (Feb 23, 2010)

*Elphaba*

Lol, ok I totally understand now.
Do you not visit government dept and Universities? Plenty of local women are working, but it does not define you.







;249276 said:


> Yes, some men cheat and some women cheat. So? Local men cheat and so do some local women. And your point is? What has that to do with giving (?) women respect and dignity? If the majority of men are lousy husbands, I would say there is even more reason for women to be financially independent and to reclaim their dignity by not being kept by or solely reliant on a man.
> 
> Many people don't think about god as they don't believe in he/she/it.
> 
> -


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## Free_Spirit (Aug 30, 2009)

marc said:


> shes like some Extremist... its a bit scary...


Marc, she is not an extremist, be careful with such kind of expressions, you are in Middle East, not in UK. She is a woman, who respects God and her religion apart from many other people.


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## lady4dubai (Feb 23, 2010)

Lol, Really?
Bcuz I believe in Islam and am not ashamed to say it IN MY OWN COUNTRY, lol, ya I would be better off running around half naked, drunk, screwing whoever whenever....Ya then you would accept me







marc said:


> shes like some Extremist... its a bit scary...


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## Free_Spirit (Aug 30, 2009)

lady4dubai said:


> Lol, Really?
> Bcuz I believe in Islam and am not ashamed to say it IN MY OWN COUNTRY, lol, ya I would be better off running around half naked, drunk, screwing whoever whenever....Ya then you would accept me


))) straight to the point


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## indigora (Feb 9, 2010)

Somebody had a western boyfriend and/or husband, got dumped and now the baby must go too (with the bath water). Such broad strokes being used to claim superiority -- no wonder the discussion is blurred and fails to clarify situations that certainly need to be addressed. If you want to convice anyone, then you should use reason -- and that would take a much smaller brush, to get the details. 

I hope that you find some relief for all your frustrations, in whatever form that may be.


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## Elphaba (Jan 24, 2008)

lady4dubai said:


> Lol, Really?
> Bcuz I believe in Islam and am not ashamed to say it IN MY OWN COUNTRY, lol, ya I would be better off running around half naked, drunk, screwing whoever whenever....Ya then you would accept me


If you are trying to imply that is how non-Muslims bwhave, then you can stop it right now. Just because people do not believe what you do, it is not a reason to be insulting. 

-


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## lady4dubai (Feb 23, 2010)

My dear, I am not frustrated and I am not claiming superiority nor am I trying to convince anyone for I am totally at peace and happy as a Muslim, however, I converted to Islam and chose to move to a Muslim country to live free as a Muslim, so I suggest people who wish to live free as Christians you do the same. If you feel so jailed/trapped here then move on to a place that better suits you like I did.






indigora said:


> Somebody had a western boyfriend and/or husband, got dumped and now the baby must go too (with the bath water). Such broad strokes being used to claim superiority -- no wonder the discussion is blurred and fails to clarify situations that certainly need to be addressed. If you want to convice anyone, then you should use reason -- and that would take a much smaller brush, to get the details.
> 
> I hope that you find some relief for all your frustrations, in whatever form that may be.


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## indigora (Feb 9, 2010)

What makes you think that I was directing my comments at you, lady4dubai?


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## lady4dubai (Feb 23, 2010)

*indigora*

Bcuz you u replied to my thread directly






indigora said:


> What makes you think that I was directing my comments at you, lady4dubai?


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## indigora (Feb 9, 2010)

Sorry you thought it was directed at you. I was thinking of someone else when I wrote that. I couldn't possibly have directed such at you, since you are so mature, reasoned and well thought. Your manners and behavoir are clearly not the childish reactionary demonstrations that I was refering. How could I confuse you and an immature emotionally beaten down jaded loser of a woman? That is clearly not you, right?


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## lady4dubai (Feb 23, 2010)

*indigora;*

Why are you so hostile?
I am just trying to give understanding to our culture and thinking, why does that offend you so?







indigora said:


> Sorry you thought it was directed at you. I was thinking of someone else when I wrote that. I couldn't possibly have directed such at you, since you are so mature, reasoned and well thought. Your manners and behavoir are clearly not the childish reactionary demonstrations that I was refering. How could I confuse you and an immature emotionally beaten down jaded loser of a woman? That is clearly not you, right?


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## marc (Mar 10, 2008)

This all smells of Troll...


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## SBP (Jan 4, 2010)

Ella_and_Yousef said:


> it's a sad ping pong, isn't it?


Are we discussing Thailand again?? :tongue1:


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## Free_Spirit (Aug 30, 2009)

SBP said:


> Are we discussing Thailand again?? :tongue1:


))) why not?


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## marc (Mar 10, 2008)

Ting Tong!! preeeeeze Mr Dudley!! I will do anything!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Free_Spirit (Aug 30, 2009)

marc said:


> Ting Tong!! preeeeeze Mr Dudley!! I will do anything!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


MARC is high today


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## Mohammeddin (Feb 24, 2010)

*Respect*

Yes, I do. I respect my country very much. UAE is one of the richest countries in the world & I'm proud of living & working here.


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## Free_Spirit (Aug 30, 2009)

Mohammeddin said:


> Yes, I do. I respect my country very much. UAE is one of the richest countries in the world & I'm proud of living & working here.


then I suggest you read the whole thing, not only beginning of the thread, you will like the disputes ))


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## marc (Mar 10, 2008)

You knows what wealth is these days, you think someone / a country is wealthy - and it turns out its all debt. No one knows the truth..

I have said it all along... its meaningless - all part of the New World Order.


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## Free_Spirit (Aug 30, 2009)

marc said:


> You knows what wealth is these days, you think someone / a country is wealthy - and it turns out its all debt. No one knows the truth..
> 
> I have said it all along... its meaningless - all part of the New World Order.


))) delighted to hear that some people know about New World Order, Starbucks (Star Bucks), Illuminati and etc.... scary subject...


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## lady4dubai (Feb 23, 2010)

*Hmmm,*

whatever mac just respect us that is all we ask






marc said:


> This all smells of Troll...


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## Jynxgirl (Nov 27, 2009)

WOW. Glad I was sleeping during all of this. 

I know a number of muslim women at home, who live very normal lives. In my four months, I can already see there are douche bag emirati men just as there are douche ameircan men - ie cheating on their wives, not getting a second wife as was suggested. The hotel clubs/bars and prostitution issue isnt just a western/european thing.... If you want to argue this, lets go have a sit down outside one of the establishments. Some women dress modestly and cover there heads and there entire arms, but then have hooker hills on. I find it VERY inappropriate to be out wearing hooker heels in any environment, more so then showing your upper arm. The women staying home to take care of their kids, but then having nannies to take care of them bewilders me. I could go on and on about this contradictive environment. This is no difference then back home though. Christian crazies are the same way, more or less. Useless to try and reason by using religion as a reasoning tool. Its just a circular argument.


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## Felixtoo2 (Jan 16, 2009)

Ok Ting Tong, maybe you could stay just one more night!!


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## marc (Mar 10, 2008)

lady4dubai said:


> whatever mac just respect us that is all we ask


its Marc not Mac !!!! -


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## Free_Spirit (Aug 30, 2009)

Jynxgirl said:


> WOW. Glad I was sleeping during all of this.
> 
> I know a number of muslim women at home, who live very normal lives. In my four months, I can already see there are douche bag emirati men just as there are douche ameircan men - ie cheating on their wives, not getting a second wife as was suggested. The hotel clubs/bars and prostitution issue isnt just a western/european thing.... If you want to argue this, lets go have a sit down outside one of the establishments. Some women dress modestly and cover there heads and there entire arms, but then have hooker hills on. I find it VERY inappropriate to be out wearing hooker heels in any environment, more so then showing your upper arm. The women staying home to take care of their kids, but then having nannies to take care of them bewilders me. I could go on and on about this contradictive environment. This is no difference then back home though. Christian crazies are the same way, more or less. Useless to try and reason by using religion as a reasoning tool. Its just a circular argument.


i think you are very far from the core of discussion, keep on sleeping


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