# News about Spain June 2012



## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

I swear I'm not deliberately looking for negative news, but...

BBC News - Spain's manufacturing sector sees contraction worsen

This article includes such gems as 


> The rate of contraction in Spain's manufacturing sector was worse than that of Greece in May, according to a business survey.


and


> "Things went from bad to worse in the Spanish manufacturing sector during May," said Andrew Harker, the report's author.


Of course it's not just Spain


> Chris Williamson, chief economist at Markit, said the figures were a cause for concern: "All four of the largest eurozone nations are now reporting worryingly sharp downturns in their manufacturing sectors.


(France, Germany, UK and Spain???)


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## nigele2 (Dec 25, 2009)

Pesky Wesky said:


> I swear I'm not deliberately looking for negative news, but...
> 
> BBC News - Spain's manufacturing sector sees contraction worsen
> 
> ...


Pesky hopefully it is good news for Spain in a sense as it illustrates that stimulating demand and thus growth is a broader requirement and not just a spanish problem. Up to now Germany has done very well out of the pain of others (although not necessarily by deliberate policy). 

The danger is of course that France and Germany will look after themselves leaving Spain to sink. And the UK will just print some more money 

But we don't have to wait long for the Greek result (or non result ) and then we will know what the short-term future holds :  or


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## Sonrisa (Sep 2, 2010)

nigele2 said:


> The danger is of course that France and Germany will look after themselves leaving Spain to sink. And the UK will just print some more money


Nah. If we sink, we will drag them with us. 
Besides, France's debt problem is huge, but no one seems to acknowledge it


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## jimenato (Nov 21, 2009)

Pesky Wesky said:


> I swear I'm not deliberately looking for negative news, but...
> 
> BBC News - Spain's manufacturing sector sees contraction worsen
> 
> ...


UK not in the Eurozone - probably Italy.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

jimenato said:


> UK not in the Eurozone - probably Italy.



:doh: Duh!
Yes, sorry.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Spain's overall debt and deficit are lesser than those of the UK. Credit to Zapatero.
But....that isn't the crucial factor.
Spain's borrowing costs are approaching the unsustainable. The UK's borrowing costs are at a much lower level , as deposits flee from euros to the 'safety' of the £ and Swiss franc. Billions of euros have left Spain for these 'safe havens' although the UK won't be for long as more QE is in the pipeline, it seems.
The point is that Spain has severe structural problems and is uncompetitive. Its wage costs have risen and productivity fallen. It has currently no plans for growth.
The Spanish banking sector is in need of urgent rescue....the question is how and by whom...
The UK is in a mess too....the stronger £ has given a setback to the growth via exports strategy of Boy George. But it has low borrowing costs and - still - the world's major financial sector which brings in over one-fifth of Government revenue.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

More on 
To Bail Out or not To Bail Out.

BBC News - Spain: No request for bailout, says minister

Why doesn't Merkel want the money to go directly to the banks?


And we also have this from newsy.com which shows snippets from different news sources
Europe Weighs Spanish Bailout

Meanwhile we have the tennis and the football to look forward to...


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

*worth a read*

This is a couple of paragraphs from a very thought-provoking article in today's 'Conservative Home' website.

Well worth further reading.


*Andrew Lilico: Can democracy and private property coexist for much longer*?

I'm angry. And when I'm angry I sometimes struggle to express myself, in writing, moderately and temperately and coherently. That Spain should choose to bankrupt itself bailing out banks that are too large for the state to afford, that it should do so having seen the example of Ireland before it, and that it should cross the Rubicon to doing so because it would be politically embarrassing for the ruling party to allow Bankia to fail because Bankia's establishment in 2010 was the pet project of the ruling party's regional governors is...shameful.

The concept of private property seems to have become devoid of meaning. Somehow if a rich person is going to lose money because she lent money to the wrong bank - either in the form of large deposits or the bonds bought by her pension fund, or whatever - it's become unthinkable that she should lose any of it. It isn't simply her money to lose - her business; her private property. Somehow it is a common political duty of the whole country - maybe the whole developed world - to keep her rich. Her property is ours. "Su casa es mi casa."


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Pesky Wesky said:


> More on
> To Bail Out or not To Bail Out.
> 
> BBC News - Spain: No request for bailout, says minister
> ...


I think I shouldn't have started that new 'Worth a read' thread but posted on this one instead.


Merkel wants to avoid giving money directly to the banks as it would infuriate many Greeks and would have a direct effect on the outcome of the election. Greece would see it as Spain being let off lightly, getting favourable terms and conditions as opposed to the stringent ones Germany was instrumental in imposing on them.

Rajoy and his team have made themselves look complete incompetents by mishandling this situation in the vain hope of maintaining their political street-cred.


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## nigele2 (Dec 25, 2009)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Why doesn't Merkel want the money to go directly to the banks?


Possibly that question is the EU problem in a nutshell.

When the UK put money into LloydsTSB and RBS they took shares. If Germany/ECB put money into Bankia do they get shares?

If Germany/ECB give it to Spain then they presumably buy control and accountability! Which might be why Rajoy doesn't want it to go through his books!

But only 12 days before we get the Greek result. And in the meantime today Spain is entering the bond market which 48 hours earlier it said was closed to it. We will see.

Exciting if sad times


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Alessandro Giansanti of ING (via Reuters)


It was a good auction. The amount was very limited, and especially in the five-year to the 10-year there was some cheapness on the curve that helped them rally into the auction. There is a better environment over the last few days for Spanish bonds.

Talk of a rescue for Spanish banks is the thing that is reducing risk aversion in the markets.

9.49am: Breaking - Spain's bond auction has just finished. Bond yields have risen, but there was solid demand for the debt. And crucially, Spain sold slightly more than it was aiming for - €2.07bn in total.

Here are the details:

€638m of two-year bonds sold at a yield of 4.335%, up from 3.463%
€825m of four-year bonds sold at a yield of 5.353%, up from 4.319%
€611m of 10-year bonds sold at a yield of 6.044%, up from 5.743%

UPDATE: The bid-to-cover ratios (which show how much demand there was) rose for all three bond types. Another good sign.

However, as we mentioned earlier, there was speculation that Spain's domestic banks might help the Madrid government by bidding heavily in the auction. We should see details of that later


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## Solwriter (Jan 10, 2012)

Here's the link if anyone wants to read the full article.
Andrew Lilico: Can democracy and private property coexist for much longer? Conservative Home Columnists
Going to read it now.


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## Solwriter (Jan 10, 2012)

Ok.... Ive read the article (and the comments).

My first thought was that this read like a rather earnest PhD students paper. It opened a debate by taking a rather one-sided view, hoping that others would fill in the blanks!
I also thought that the case regarding the loss of private property to government subsidised institutions (subsidised by the taxes of ordinary people, who then _in theory_ became the owners of that property) wasn't well argued (hence some of the comments).

*Mary*,
you picked out the two most pointed statements in the whole article.

I agree with the first statement absolutely, but the second (I think...) is muddled.

I can see that the writer is stating that those who invest their private property in banks are doing so at their own risk and therefore, should not expect to be helped by a bail out when things go wrong. After all, we live in a democracy where the decisions we make on the use of our property should be ours, not the states.

But the writer appears to assume that it is only the rich who do this.

As at least one person commented, to let the banks collapse would hit the poor and particularly the people in the middle, whose pension funds are invested there, much more than it would hurt the rich.

Perhaps more later....


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## Solwriter (Jan 10, 2012)

mrypg9 said:


> I think I shouldn't have started that new 'Worth a read' thread but posted on this one instead.


Now she tells me!!!


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Why doesn't Merkel want the money to go directly to the banks?


If it goes to governments in the form of a bailout it has all sorts of strings attached - not only forced austerity measures, but the privatisation of public assets. These can then be bought up at rock-bottom prices by German investors. It effectively puts an end to democracy in the bailed-out country, as it restricts what future governments can spend on social welfare, education etc.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

mrypg9 said:


> I think I shouldn't have started that new 'Worth a read' thread but posted on this one instead.
> 
> .


sorted


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Alcalaina said:


> If it goes to governments in the form of a bailout it has all sorts of strings attached - not only forced austerity measures, but the privatisation of public assets. These can then be bought up at rock-bottom prices by German investors. It effectively puts an end to democracy in the bailed-out country, as it restricts what future governments can spend on social welfare, education etc.


The official line is that Spain has already implemented most of the necessary austerity measures, including privatisations.

I think it's more likely that the reason is the knock-on effect on countries like Greece, Portugal and Ireland if Spain gets off 'lightly'.

Real democracy, whatever that is, ended with the Single European Act. Because so many free market meassures have a severely negative impact on 'ordinary' people, it's imperative to thin out democracy as much as possible. Decisions that constrain government room to act are taken at the highest level removed from popular control: the IMF,WTO, G8, European Commission, ECB. What real control have the people of Spain or any other country have over these institutions?

There is amidst all this chaos an opportunity for a different European Union. But the move to closer fiscal integration or a United States of Europe will not be progress towards democratic accountability - quite the opposite.


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## Muddy (Jan 14, 2010)

mrypg9 said:


> The official line is that Spain has already implemented most of the necessary austerity measures, including privatisations.
> 
> I think it's more likely that the reason is the knock-on effect on countries like Greece, Portugal and Ireland if Spain gets off 'lightly'.


Without knowing the fine details I've seen and heard it said plenty of times now Greece cooked the books big time before entry to the euro so compared to Spain which did meet requirements then do you think Spain should be allowed a different approach considering it hopefully only needs a fraction of billions compared to Greece? I think it should!


> Real democracy, whatever that is, ended with the Single European Act. Because so many free market meassures have a severely negative impact on 'ordinary' people, it's imperative to thin out democracy as much as possible. Decisions that constrain government room to act are taken at the highest level removed from popular control: the IMF,WTO, G8, European Commission, ECB. What real control have the people of Spain or any other country have over these institutions?


That sounds right to me


> There is amidst all this chaos an opportunity for a different European Union. But the move to closer fiscal integration or a United States of Europe will not be progress towards democratic accountability - quite the opposite.


 And that's the truth.

They're trying to cure the disease of a very sick patient with an aspirin, when at the very least it needs full on antibiotics.
Ok a silly way of putting it, but what keeps coming into my thoughts is, if something can last for around 2400 years (please correct me as my history is only a google search away lol) , then it, the Drachma can't have been so bad can it?
Surly removing Greece in an orderly way is better as this will limit the shock factor.
Rather than the EU chucking more cash down a very deep Greek hole in the ground and burdening Greeks with even more decades of debt, surly it would be better to support their own currency for a few years to offset things like essential imports that will cost the people more if they do go back to the Drachma. The single currency isn’t working for Greece, being shackled to it has hurt Spain also.
Extra short-term pain for some long-term gain! IMHO is needed.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Muddy said:


> Without knowing the fine details I've seen and heard it said plenty of times now Greece cooked the books big time before entry to the euro so compared to Spain which did meet requirements then do you think Spain should be allowed a different approach considering it hopefully only needs a fraction of billions compared to Greece? I think it should!
> That sounds right to me
> And that's the truth.
> 
> ...



The main difference between Spain and Greece is that the Greek Government borrowed wildly and used the 'cheap' loan money to create even more jobs in the already bloated private sector and to fund unrealistic public sector wages and pensions - thus no doubt hoping to create a grateful 'client base'.

The Spanish Government under Zapatero was comparatively prudent. The bank debt was run up by corporations and individuals during the ill-fated construction boom.

But....although yes, Greece did 'cook the books', aided and abetted by those clever people at Goldmann Sachs, it is not the only eurozone country to bend the rules.
Germany obviously did not exercise due diligence over the Greek application.....or didn't want to.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

*good news??*

a local councillor has posted this link on FB this morning

the article is in Spanish but the main point as far as Jávea is concerned is that the town has the highest number of new jobs/employed in the Marina Alta............ 104

and that the number of registered unemployed in the town has dropped to 2000

if that's the _good _ news, what's the bad :confused2:

Xbia lidera la creacin de nuevos puestos de trabajo durante el mes de mayo. Las Provincias


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Solwriter said:


> Ok.... Ive read the article (and the comments).
> 
> My first thought was that this read like a rather earnest PhD students paper. It opened a debate by taking a rather one-sided view, hoping that others would fill in the blanks!
> I also thought that the case regarding the loss of private property to government subsidised institutions (subsidised by the taxes of ordinary people, who then _in theory_ became the owners of that property) wasn't well argued (hence some of the comments).
> ...


Lilico is a hard-line free marketeer. I like to read from both 'sides' to try to get a balanced picture.

The problem is that by going overboard for free market policies we've backed ourselves into a corner. The central issue is simply that by allowing banks and other such institutions to be 'too big to fail' because as you rightly point out the 'little people' and indeed the whole economy would be hurt we have created a situation where these institutions know they have total immunity, no matter what they do, what risks they take as the taxpayer will bail them out.

I cannot for the life of me see why banks that are saved by taxpayers' money should not be immediately nationalised. That would guarantee liquidity and allow for some democratic control over them.

At the moment our 'leaders' seemed to be paralysed....decisions have to be made and inevitably these will hurt some people. Far better to hurt those who can stand the pain.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Spain now downgraded to triple B....100 billion euros said to be needed for bank bailout.


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## Muddy (Jan 14, 2010)

Writing off mortgages can't be good for the banks either, but at the same time the people are keeping them up and running.
Saw this story last night. It pulls me in both directions. Yeah sure it would be nice to walk away from 90% of my mortgage, but at the same time it doesn't make sense to kick people out of their home adding to all the other empty property stock!
I would hope they don't do this with everyone. I think it better to offer people to pay back half, or maybe double the length of the term but not add interest.
Everyone is a different case of course.
Spain House Evictions: Homeowners In Battle With Banks Over Unpaid Mortgages - Sky News Video Player


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Muddy said:


> Writing off mortgages can't be good for the banks either, but at the same time the people are keeping them up and running.
> Saw this story last night. It pulls me in both directions. Yeah sure it would be nice to walk away from 90% of my mortgage, but at the same time it doesn't make sense to kick people out of their home adding to all the other empty property stock!
> I would hope they don't do this with everyone. I think it better to offer people to pay back half, or maybe double the length of the term but not add interest.
> Everyone is a different case of course.
> Spain House Evictions: Homeowners In Battle With Banks Over Unpaid Mortgages - Sky News Video Player


If I were still involved in social housing provision I would call on Aytos to put Compulsory Purchase Orders on empty blocks where owners are bankrupt or for whatever reason cannot use them commercially.
I would then allocate units to homeless people and charge affordable rents to help pay for repairs and general maintenance.

Whilst it is true that many homeless people are so because of taking bad decisions, the punishment for stupiduty should never be loss of some kind of decent roof over your head, both for the sake of the individual and his/her family and for the wider community.


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## Muddy (Jan 14, 2010)

Some news I found today. This guy is making the case for how Europe can easily fix its problems and what it shouldn't be doing! 11 mins long so go make a cupa and sit back and listen


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

mrypg9 said:


> Spain now downgraded to triple B....100 billion euros said to be needed for bank bailout.


 Now when I see that they have downgraded the USA (which is where downgrading is really deserved seeing as they caused all this mess), then that will be news


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Muddy said:


> Some news I found today. This guy is making the case for how Europe can easily fix its problems and what it shouldn't be doing! 11 mins long so go make a cupa and sit back and listen
> 'Budget cuts for Europe like pouring gas on fire' - YouTube


Thanks for posting this. I heard about this guy on the radio about a week ago, but it wasn't very easy to find any material on him. Will hopefully find time to watch tomorrow.


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## Muddy (Jan 14, 2010)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Thanks for posting this. I heard about this guy on the radio about a week ago, but it wasn't very easy to find any material on him. Will hopefully find time to watch tomorrow.


 I've only been watching that news channel for a couple of months and it makes for a refreshing change over the usual sanitized versions of news on most other channels IMO. They spend much more time interviewing people usually.
A must watch is the "Keiser Report" He's an ex stockbroker and seems to know what he's talking about and does it with a certain sense of style. Not everyone's taste but IMO he holds no shots and puts the boot in big time!! Very funny at times but he gets serious matters across really well.
Stacy Herbert his co-host keeps him in check lol and she usually covers the fine detail.
See what you think..


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Muddy said:


> I've only been watching that news channel for a couple of months and it makes for a refreshing change over the usual sanitized versions of news on most other channels IMO. They spend much more time interviewing people usually.
> A must watch is the "Keiser Report" He's an ex stockbroker and seems to know what he's talking about and does it with a certain sense of style. Not everyone's taste but IMO he holds no shots and puts the boot in big time!! Very funny at times but he gets serious matters across really well.
> Stacy Herbert his co-host keeps him in check lol and she usually covers the fine detail.
> See what you think..
> Keiser Report: Paper Money Collapse (E297) - YouTube


I watched the Mark whatsisname video and the first part of the Keiser report, and they were well worth watching!!
Took me a while to get into the Keiser report as he's sssoooo - American I suppose is the word, but yes, it was informative and he did make me laugh too 

So, if you have time I recommend the first part where they make some good points about .4%, Dixons, Richard Branson, arsonists, the role of corporations...


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## Muddy (Jan 14, 2010)

Pesky Wesky said:


> I watched the Mark whatsisname video and the first part of the Keiser report, and they were well worth watching!!
> Took me a while to get into the Keiser report as he's sssoooo - American I suppose is the word, but yes, it was informative and he did make me laugh too
> 
> So, if you have time I recommend the first part where they make some good points about .4%, Dixons, Richard Branson, arsonists, the role of corporations...


Glad you liked it. And... there are much funnier vids than that one if you have a search around. Mr Keiser always gets a bit carried away but I do enjoy a good laugh and he seems to be on a bit of a quest to show things how they really are.
Just in case anyone thinks he's only just all over the UK and Europe he isn't. He comes down very harsh on US bankers and such so hard I'm amazed with some of the things he says he hasn't been locked up yet lol :boxing:
If I can find a really funny one I watched a few weeks back I'll post it up.


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## Burpy (Apr 10, 2012)

Here´s an amusing report from today´s _Publico_ online edition:

Detenido en Ceuta por ir a misa disfrazado de diablo - Público.es



> Los agentes de la Policía Local de Ceuta han denunciado a un hombre, cuya identidad no ha sido facilitada, cuando pretendía acceder al interior de la Santa Iglesia Catedral disfrazado de diablo mientras se daba una misa.


Its in Spanish, but the gist is this: A man was arrested in Ceuta today for attempting to enter a church dressed as a devil whilst mass was being said. The police say that they arrested him on a public order offence and that he put up no resistance.


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## Burpy (Apr 10, 2012)

Here´s an amusing report from today´s _Publico_ online edition:

Detenido en Ceuta por ir a misa disfrazado de diablo - Público.es



> Los agentes de la Policía Local de Ceuta han denunciado a un hombre, cuya identidad no ha sido facilitada, cuando pretendía acceder al interior de la Santa Iglesia Catedral disfrazado de diablo mientras se daba una misa.


Its in Spanish, but the gist is this: A man was arrested in Ceuta today for attempting to enter a church dressed as a devil whilst mass was being said. The police say that they arrested him on a public order offence and that he put up no resistance.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Burpy said:


> Here´s an amusing report from today´s _Publico_ online edition:
> 
> Detenido en Ceuta por ir a misa disfrazado de diablo - Público.es
> 
> ...


What the devil will we get, next?


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

A detailed analysis of the Bankia disaster (in English), if you can bear it.

Interesting that defaulted loans to property developers are five times as much as defaulted mortgages. This is what happens when politicians run banks and put their wives and cousins on the board (with stipends of up to €500,000 a year), who then approve loan recommendations for dodgy building projects without question.

The bank that brought about a bailout | In English | EL PAÍS


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Front page news in El Periodico and other papers today
Sin derecho a la sanidad
*Sin derecho a la sanidad *

*Un arquitecto en paro se quedará sin tarjeta sanitaria si no prueba que es pobre en virtud del decreto de Mato*

Miércoles, 13 de junio - *00:30h.* 

 Un *arquitecto catalán* de *28 años*, *Francesc Romero*, vecino de *Mataró (Maresme)*, *sin contrato laboral* que le permita cotizar como asegurado en el régimen de la *Seguridad Social*, ha sido informado de que a partir del próximo 1 de septiembre perderá el *derecho a la asistencia pública *que aún le facilita su *tarjeta sanitaria*, salvo si certifica que sus ingresos anuales son tan escasos que no superan un "límite reglamentario" aún por decidir. En este caso, mantendría su credencial.

No right to Medical Care
An unemployed architect will not have a social security card unless he can prove that he is poor because of the Mato decree.
A 28 year old Catalan architect, Francesc Romero from Mataró (Maresme), who does not have a work contract that allows him to contribute to the SS, has been informed that as from Sept 1st he will lose his right to the public health system, for which he still holds a card. Only if he can prove that his annual income does not excede a "regulated limit", that has yet to be stipulated, will he maintain his rights.

I heard on the radio that as he is over 26 he can not go on his mothers social security number.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Front page news in El Periodico and other papers today
> Sin derecho a la sanidad
> *Sin derecho a la sanidad *
> 
> ...


So how will this work I wonder, if they don't take out health insurance? Will they still be able to use state facilities, but be given a bill?


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## nigele2 (Dec 25, 2009)

Alcalaina said:


> This is what happens when politicians run banks and put their wives and cousins on the board (with stipends of up to €500,000 a year), who then approve loan recommendations for dodgy building projects without question.


That's very unfair Alcalaina  They always asked how much their cut was


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## Solwriter (Jan 10, 2012)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Front page news in El Periodico and other papers today
> Sin derecho a la sanidad
> *Sin derecho a la sanidad *
> 
> ...


That is awful. 
As immigrants to Spain, we talk about what our rights are to the public health care system here, but we often forget that the same rules apply to Spanish citizens.
I think that those of us who come from the UK, where residence is the criteria for public health care, just cant get our heads around this.

This is a sad case, and I expect we will be hearing about plenty more of them in the coming months. 
I would hazard a guess that citizens like Francesc Romero are falling foul of rules being enforced to stop health tourism, but IMHO it definitely isn't fair. So I hope that those who make the rules, and those who enforce them, are listening and will try to sort out this mess.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Solwriter said:


> That is awful.
> As immigrants to Spain, we talk about what our rights are to the public health care system here, but we often forget that the same rules apply to Spanish citizens.
> I think that those of us who come from the UK, where residence is the criteria for public health care, just cant get our heads around this.
> 
> ...


A roof over one's head and access to health and education regardless of income is a basic entitlement in any society that claims to be civilised.

Not only for the welfare of the individual and his/her family but for the sake of society - social cohesion - as a whole.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

mrypg9 said:


> A roof over one's head and access to health and education regardless of income is a basic entitlement in any society that claims to be civilised.
> 
> Not only for the welfare of the individual and his/her family but for the sake of society - social cohesion - as a whole.


Yep, that's what all the immigrants (both legal and illegal) to UK claim


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

baldilocks said:


> Yep, that's what all the immigrants (both legal and illegal) to UK claim


Ahh....but that's because we allow virtually anyone in to the UK, regardless of whether or not they are able to fend for themselves....unlike Spain and some other EU states.

I think a country has a duty to its citizens to provide the necessities of a civilised life...for society's sake as I said.
But I've also made it clear that rights go hand in hand with responsibilities and no one should expect owt for nowt, as the saying goes.


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## fergie (Oct 4, 2010)

mrypg9 said:


> Ahh....but that's because we allow virtually anyone in to the UK, regardless of whether or not they are able to fend for themselves....unlike Spain and some other EU states.
> 
> I think a country has a duty to its citizens to provide the necessities of a civilised life...for society's sake as I said.
> But I've also made it clear that rights go hand in hand with responsibilities and no one should expect owt for nowt, as the saying goes.


If you ever look onto the British forum, the main topic of conversation at the moment is how to get into UK mainly before the boarder agency rules and requirements change, I think in July, there are some who are still worrying about the new criteria for entering UK after that date. I don't want to get into any big discussion about what is going on there, but you can clearly 'read between the lines' to see that some people just have not got a clue how they will fend for themselves long term in the UK, they just want to get there regardless.
Hopefully the newer UKBA rules due to be released will deter some who are not entering for honest reasons, i.e. for the good of UK tax payer, its free national health and to integrate with citizens.:focus:


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Front page news in El Periodico and other papers today
> Sin derecho a la sanidad
> *Sin derecho a la sanidad *
> 
> ...


More on this story as posted in another thread somewhere
Ministry backtracks on healthcare entitlement restrictions | In English | EL PAÍS
_" is a radical change from an April decree that stipulated that non-contributors had to prove a complete lack of income in order to be eligible for a public health card.
But that decision left out social groups like rentiers or members of religious congregations, who do not pay Social Security, but have an income. The new legislation is an attempt to patch up these holes. From now on, anyone over 26 who has never paid Social Security will still be allowed to use the public health network, as long as they make under 100,000 euros a year._"


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## gus-lopez (Jan 4, 2010)

Pesky Wesky said:


> More on this story as posted in another thread somewhere
> [ From now on, anyone over 26 who has never paid Social Security will still be allowed to use the public health network, as long as they make under 100,000 euros a year.[/I]"


I think that will cover the vast majority !!


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## agua642 (May 24, 2009)

And as long as they are doing a Tax declaration in Spain under 10,000

Sent from my iPhone using ExpatForum


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## Solwriter (Jan 10, 2012)

agua642 said:


> And as long as they are doing a Tax declaration in Spain under 10,000


And that's something else they don't seem to have considered.


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## chrisnation (Mar 2, 2009)

Oh but they do. I saw a piece only today on the possibility of France sticking her hand out for a hand-out.


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## jimenato (Nov 21, 2009)

Farage alert!

It's difficult to argue with much of this. 

I would prefer it if he suggested some solutions rather than just banging on about the problems. 

No more lifeboats left on EU Titanic - YouTube


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## nigele2 (Dec 25, 2009)

jimenato said:


> Farage alert!
> 
> It's difficult to argue with much of this.
> 
> ...


Tx jimenato. Very amusing and sickening. His reference to Rajoy got smiles from the people around him and there were less jeers and more applause than I remember him receiving say last year. It is of course the same message many are giving including the youth of Spain so not sure whether his research comes from simply reading web forums or not. 

But with luck and the efforts of sensible and honest people the end will now come quickly. And then the rebuild can begin and then we will see if Farge has something positive to offer. I get the feeling however that he is more suited to being opposition than government.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

> Former Bankia chairman Rodrigo Rato has offered to forego the 1.2 million euros he is due from the nationalized bank in exchange for the lender not enforcing a clause in his contract that bars him from working for a rival for two years after his departure.
> Rato offers to waive payoff package from Bankia | In English | EL PAÍS


Words fail me.

Not because he is being rewarded for failure with a €1,2m bonus - we're used to that - but because there is evidently another bank out there who would employ him!


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Alcalaina said:


> Words fail me.
> 
> Not because he is being rewarded for failure with a €1,2m bonus - we're used to that - but because there is evidently another bank out there who would employ him!


I hope it isn't mine!


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## chrisnation (Mar 2, 2009)

*Just like the footie*



Alcalaina said:


> Words fail me.
> 
> Not because he is being rewarded for failure with a €1,2m bonus - we're used to that - but because there is evidently another bank out there who would employ him!


Funny that. Just like footie managers who get the sack from one club and are then hired by another. I mean,how many clubs is Mick McCarthy going to go thru before the clubs realise that, nice bloke as he seems to be, he's a duff manager. 

And on the political front, Mr N Kinnock and 'Lord' Mandelson must rank as all-time greats in this class of operator - copper-bottomed, yard-wide, fully certified failures who get promoted.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

nigele2 said:


> Tx jimenato. Very amusing and sickening. His reference to Rajoy got smiles from the people around him and there were less jeers and more applause than I remember him receiving say last year. It is of course the same message many are giving including the youth of Spain so not sure whether his research comes from simply reading web forums or not.
> 
> But with luck and the efforts of sensible and honest people the end will now come quickly. And then the rebuild can begin and then we will see if Farge has something positive to offer. I get the feeling however that he is more suited to being opposition than government.


I get the feeling he may be better suited to joining up with Marine Le Pen, Nick Griffiths and the Czech anti-Semites, racists and homophobes of D.O.S.T.whose guest he was in Prague a couple of weeks ago.


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## chrisnation (Mar 2, 2009)

*Nick who?*



mrypg9 said:


> I get the feeling he may be better suited to joining up with Marine Le Pen, Nick Griffiths and the Czech anti-Semites, racists and homophobes of D.O.S.T.whose guest he was in Prague a couple of weeks ago.


Give Nick Griffith a break! He's a great guy - viz

_Nick Griffiths, author of Dalek I Loved You, In the Footsteps of Harrison Dextrose, Looking for Mrs Dextrose_

I think you mean Nick Griffin.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

chrisnation said:


> Give Nick Griffith a break! He's a great guy - viz
> 
> _Nick Griffiths, author of Dalek I Loved You, In the Footsteps of Harrison Dextrose, Looking for Mrs Dextrose_
> 
> I think you mean Nick Griffin.


Give Mary a break, she's probably still drugged up on painkillers!


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## chrisnation (Mar 2, 2009)

*Sounds great!*



Alcalaina said:


> Give Mary a break, she's probably still drugged up on painkillers!


Is she 'sittin in a rainbow, close yer eyes and drift aaawayyyy'?


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

chrisnation said:


> Is she 'sittin in a rainbow, close yer eyes and drift aaawayyyy'?


Thanks Alca...you are a very kind person and I mean that..
No Chris, I save 'drifting away' for later

I made a silly mistake....just lately I've been careless with names..
But Griffith or Griffin, the man's a fascist (expletive deleted by Mod)


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Someone has just sent me this. Video about Spain, The EU, The Titanic and lifeboats. What do you think?
The Genius of Mutual Indebtedness - Nigel Farage - YouTube
PS: I know nothing about this bloke except what I've read on here...


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## agua642 (May 24, 2009)

Very amusing Pesky Wesky But so true

Sent from my iPhone using ExpatForum


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Someone has just sent me this. Video about Spain, The EU, The Titanic and lifeboats. What do you think?
> The Genius of Mutual Indebtedness - Nigel Farage - YouTube
> PS: I know nothing about this bloke except what I've read on here...


I refuse to raise his YouTube rankings by clicking on it, but I can guess what he's saying. He's very clever at describing the problem, but the one thing he never does is suggest a workable solution.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Alcalaina said:


> I refuse to raise his YouTube rankings by clicking on it, but I can guess what he's saying. He's very clever at describing the problem, but the one thing he never does is suggest a workable solution.


You may have a point there, but I have to say, so does he!!

Anyway, don't bother clicking on it as it's the same as Jimenato posted before.

Sorry, I wasn't paying attention 

PS. He's a good speaker, isn't he?


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

I think he's brilliant. I also think those around him are disgustingly rude!! They arrogantly ignore him. He seems to speak sense to me. No he doesnt appear to have an answer, but maybe those arrogant twits sitting around him have an answer since they created the problem. In any case, its manners to at least to look as though they are interested!!

Dont worry alcalaina, I listened to it twice to bring up his Youtube ranking lol 

Jo xxx


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

jojo said:


> I think he's brilliant. I also think those around him are disgustingly rude!! They arrogantly ignore him. He seems to speak sense to me. No he doesnt appear to have an answer, but maybe those arrogant twits sitting around him have an answer since they created the problem. In any case, its manners to at least to look as though they are interested!!
> 
> Dont worry alcalaina, I listened to it twice to bring up his Youtube ranking lol
> 
> Jo xxx


I did watch it when Jimenato posted it.

So do you agree that Britain should leave the EU then? That's what UKIP is about, after all. He gathers popular support by saying things that everyone agrees with.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Alcalaina said:


> I did watch it when Jimenato posted it.
> 
> So do you agree with him that Britain should leave the EU then? That's what UKIP is all about after all.



I dont agree with all he says, but I do agree with his way of describing the mess! I dont think that the UK should leave the EU - its all in too deep now and for anyone to leave would be too complicated to unravel (altho maybe gradually we should pull away and go back to the common market???) IMO, it it was never going to work and the EU should have been started up far more slowly and gently - if at all. Certainly even a fool could see that it wouldnt ever work in its present format. I'm glad the UK didnt go for the euro. 

And yes, UKIP is ok, although in fairness I'm not a political animal and havent studied their manifestos. From what I can gather it believes in keeping nations as they are - nations. I'm not racist or anti anything, but we all need our tribes and are merrily supporting our "tribe" in the olympics - its natural. People still want to retain their identity and culture, so thats a good enough reason for UKIP to try to keep the UKs????

Jo xxx


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

jojo said:


> I dont agree with all he says, but I do agree with his way of describing the mess! I dont think that the UK should leave the EU - its all in too deep now and for anyone to leave would be too complicated to unravel (altho maybe gradually we should pull away and go back to the common market???) IMO, it it was never going to work and the EU should have been started up far more slowly and gently - if at all. Certainly even a fool could see that it wouldnt ever work in its present format. I'm glad the UK didnt go for the euro.
> 
> And yes, UKIP is ok, although in fairness I'm not a political animal and havent studied their manifestos. From what I can gather it believes in keeping nations as they are - nations. I'm not racist or anti anything, but we all need our tribes and are merrily supporting our "tribe" in the olympics - its natural. People still want to retain their identity and culture, so thats a good enough reason for UKIP to try to keep the UKs????
> 
> Jo xxx


But the UK has lots of different "tribes" as you put it. UKIP only represents one of them.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Alcalaina said:


> I refuse to raise his YouTube rankings by clicking on it, but I can guess what he's saying. He's very clever at describing the problem, but the one thing he never does is suggest a workable solution.


Superficially he is very entertaining. He is articulate, a good debater and often makes some very valid and telling points.

However......he has a dark side which is rarely shown to the British public.
UKIP is basically a one-trick-pony libertarian Party....and imo anyone who swallows that particular philosophy needs to lie in a darkened room or seek medical help.

There is a case, a very strong case, for a redefinition of what it means for the UK to be a member of the EU but UKIP want withdrawal and seem to imagine that this is a merely formality, a technical readjustment of treaties, with no consideration for British jobs or how we would find trading partners to replace the 50% plus trade we have with the EU.

UKIP profess that we would be able to continue trading within the EU...well, yes, we would...but with unfavourable tariffs. They talk blithely of trading with the U.S., with Canada, Australia and other Commonwealth countries, seemingly oblivious to the fact that these countries have moved on and founnd other partners and alliances.

The fact that Farage went to Prague to meet with D.O.S.T. as their guest should not be minimised. These are fascists, homophobes, racists, anti-Semites, the Czech equivalent of the BNP.

We've already got the UK Conservatives in a bloc in the European Parliament with Polish homophobes and anti-Semites, Latvians who honour the SS, Hungarian fascists and Czech loonies....


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Alcalaina said:


> But the UK has lots of different "tribes" as you put it. UKIP only represents one of them.


Now that Millipede decided to pay attention to what a very large number, probably a majority, of British people of all ethnicities, think, maybe the debate about immigration can be uncoupled from 'racism'.

The data supplied by Jonathan Portes purporting to show that EU immigration has been of benefit to the UK is highly partisan...'twas he who made the comment about 'rubbing people's noses in multi-culturalism'.

We are a small, densely populated island. All very well to counter well-founded claims that the strain on our infrastructure can be removed by building more houses, schools, hospitals.... Do we want a UK covered in concrete??

It's time for honesty and Millipede hasn't been totally honest. There is one question that needs to be answered before anyone debating this issue can be taken seriously:

Do you think there should be no limit too immigration into the UK?


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Alcalaina said:


> . He's very clever at describing the problem, but the one thing he never does is suggest a workable solution.


Well, he's not the only one, is he..... That could be said of many politicians and Parties/groupuscules of left or right.

Much criticism of Tory policies is just that...

Many of the solutions on offer are either away with the fairies as Scottish OH says or more suitable for a sixth-form Political Studies debate.

'Abolish capitalism!'; is the cry.

To replace it with.....

I've asked a few questions I've not had answered. ....


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