# Road Tax etc.



## redwolf (Sep 13, 2012)

I read with great interest the various threads and answers regarding road tax, licensing, registration etc. and have to admit, getting a bit twitchy when I see the costs involved here.
I have a 1991 Honda Goldwing GL1500 and a Honda VTX1300C, which I am hoping to bring with me from RSA. No cars, not worth it, as we drive on the wrong (right?) side of the road here in RSA.
Now if any one on this forum knows and could help, it would seem to be travelling-man, as he has recently gone through the relocation process from RSA to Portugal, and his latest thread regarding his classic Jeep (I have a grand cherokee) and the process to register, license etc. seems to be very stressful.
Maybe I have lived in Africa too long, where the rules are VERY different and costs a lot less. For example, once I own a vehicle and register it and it has had its road worthy test, I DO NOT have to have another road worthy on the vehicle as long as I own it. And from the fees which I have seen banded around for annual licensing, WOW!!!!! at the present rate of 10:1 for the euro to Rand, I could license 12 vehicles here for one in europe, and Portugal is a lot cheaper (I believe) than the UK.

So my question is, what does it cost to license/register a motorcycle in Portugal? I have owned both bikes since new (i.e Goldwing for 21 years)


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## canoeman (Mar 3, 2011)

You can only bring in 1 vehicle per person and not pay ISV or import duty, if theres two of you each could bring in 1 each but you must also meet certain conditions, 2 basic ones you must have owned the vehicle in single names and prove Residence outside Portugal for at least 12 months before moving to Portugal.
So if both bikes are registered as you as owner you could bring 1 in with no import duty and the other pay import duty.

You can import any number of vehicles when you are a Resident and pay import duty, motorcycles are relatively cheap to import
Simulator here Portal das Finanças

Yearly road tax 2012 up to 750cc €55,12 +750cc €110,44, no prices for the possible yearly IPO tests but a car is €28

There's little point in comparing certain things with RSA as you have to comply with legislation of the country you move to as annoying as it might be.


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## somanyhands (Apr 9, 2011)

Import duty on motorcycles is considerably less than for cars anyway.
Drop into a documents office somewhere, with your bike details, and ask them if they'll do you a mock up of charges for importing each. Pay the tax on whichever bike costs less in tax and import the more expensive tax one tax-free.

I think the actual tax aspect of our motorcycle import (Honda Fireblade) last year was only a hundred euros or so (we could actually have imported it tax-free had we done it early enough but we didn't actually import it until we were certain we were going to stay here in Portugal)

Sent from my iPad using the ExpatForum app


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## redwolf (Sep 13, 2012)

Many thanks to you both, obviously not as expensive as I initially thought. Understand the country legislation thing canoeman, just have to get my head round it, unfortunately, Africa is so laid back and basic, you sometimes compare everything, which I know is wrong!!


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## travelling-man (Jun 17, 2011)

Redwolf

If you don't speak/read Portuguese, it's a better idea to use an agent to do the registration and costs something in the region of E500 upwards. Tax on a bike will be fairly inexpensive I'd have thought...... I got hit for E773 a year but my car has a 5.9 V8 engine..... so it's a case of **** happens for me.... I might be able to get it classified as of historical interest in which case it reverts to zero rated but I've been too busy to look into that yet.

Canoeman (as usual) has it right about how many you can import tax free but if you know someone in the traffic dept in RSA, they might be able to help you get one bike registered to your wife for the required time. 

FWIW, I don't know about bike values here but car values are dramatically different here compared to RSA..... My Jeep for example was worth virtually nothing there but I've been told by several dealers here that it's worth between E25K - E30K.


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## redwolf (Sep 13, 2012)

thanks for the info TM, I do know a couple of people, so will have a word. With regards to your Jeep.....WOW!! a 2002 Jeep GC is only worth about R75000 at the moment


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## travelling-man (Jun 17, 2011)

The import & registration process isn't cheap or easy & several people have told me it's not worth importing if you have to pay tax but I'm not so sure.

For example, I KNOW I can buy restored LHD mid 60s Merc SL190 in RSA for something in the region of R100K, ship it for about R20K & customs here tell me the total duty is about E10K & the matriculation fee is about E500 or E600. They retail here for anything up to E50K........ I reckon it's worth a punt on one next year & I'll see how it works out.

And od course, your neck of the woods is chokka with old SLs.


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## canoeman (Mar 3, 2011)

With current crisis are people buying collectible or not cars in that price bracket? mitula have 10 for sale but you don't make a profit till you sell


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## travelling-man (Jun 17, 2011)

That's indeed true but I'll say that in times of economic crisis, people often put surplus money into moveable assets and especially things like classic cars. I guess the answer is some people are buying some classic cars....... but truth be told, I actually wouldn't be too heartbroken if I had to keep the car & use it for my own enjoyment for a while. :eyebrows:

Mrs TM might not be quite so keen on the idea though! 

Have you got a website you could PM me for mitula please?

FWIW, what seems to be selling are the cheapies and the very expensive with the mid range not selling quite so well.... I know of a 1925 Lincoln that sold for more that US$250K a few months ago. I believe the buyer was an Arab.


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## canoeman (Mar 3, 2011)

Motor de busca de Classificados de Automóveis de segunda mão, Carros, Veículos em Portugal | Mitula Automóveis might devalue on roads in your area


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## travelling-man (Jun 17, 2011)

The prices I've quoted for my Jeep came from local PT dealers & the Merc prices came from local classic car mags and the dealers when called, tell me they sell those models at those sort of prices...... of course, they're all salesmen but despite that, I reckon they're about right..... if anything, I'd have expected them to tell me the opposite so I'd be more inclined to buy from them rather than import.


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## oronero (Aug 24, 2012)

I agree with you travelling-man, good classic cars or bikes always find buyers, the cream get bought up by all sorts and even speculators, a bit like some artwork.

I have heard of a group of investors paying circa £80,000 plus, recently, for a nice 1974 Ducati 750 ss (roundcase) also known as a 'greenframe'. 

I have personally had a 10% gain per year on one of my own motorcycles for the last 10 years and if a similiar example sells for the asking price that the vendor is seeking that would make my growth over 25% per year for each of those 10 years.

Save my money in the bank...sorry rather spend it on some that interests me...enjoy the Merc SL!


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## travelling-man (Jun 17, 2011)

As an example, Ariel square fours & Vincents are increasing in value by something in the region of 30% per annum year on year on year and Brough values do even better. (all genuine ex factory with good provenance) compared to something in the region of 2 or 3 percent from the banks.

Sorry to have gone off topic there!


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## canoeman (Mar 3, 2011)

Ariel square 4's used to ride them as solos, pigs in the wet and that nearside rear cylinder always an oil feed problem


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## travelling-man (Jun 17, 2011)

I'd also think the rear cylinders would suffer overheating problems in this country.

And just to bring you some good memories:


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## oronero (Aug 24, 2012)

travelling-man said:


> I'd also think the rear cylinders would suffer overheating problems in this country.
> 
> And just to bring you some good memories:


Why would the rear cylinder be a problem there compared to anywhere else, after all air-cooled beetles were sold quite successfully there for years.


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## travelling-man (Jun 17, 2011)

The rear cylinders always tended to have an overheating problem (even) in UK summer temperatures & in PT summer temperatures where it get to around 40C, I'd have expected that to be more of a problem..... I could be wrong though.


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## canoeman (Mar 3, 2011)

Think your right we actually fitted scoops to help, but forever stripping down, I try not to think of bikes I've owned over the years and look at current prices


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## travelling-man (Jun 17, 2011)

I reckon a modern oil cooler would make all the difference in the world to them.

There's a Vincent being for sale in PT at the moment & assuming the numbers etc tie up, I reckon it'd be an excellent long term investment for someone..... too rich for me though! LOL!


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## canoeman (Mar 3, 2011)

But didn't have them back in the 60's, yes Vincent my two would have been valued in excess of £18,000 each and I paid if I remember under £300 each, don't think I want to reminisce anymore


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## travelling-man (Jun 17, 2011)

UKP300!....... eish but that brings tears to my eyes...... I know some who are willing to pay up to UKP50K for a good Shadow with original provenance...... but they're almost as rare as rocking horse doo doos now.


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## oronero (Aug 24, 2012)

As somebody pointed out to me recently, it's not that the things are becoming rarer, it's the fact that not so many were built and not everybody wants to sell the ones they have. 

I think the correct phrase is difficult to find one for sale, though some will have been destroyed along the way with the passage of time.


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## redwolf (Sep 13, 2012)

*Road tax etc.*

I honestly CANNOT believe this!!!!!!
In the last 7 months, I have just sold my 1953 Vellocette 200 flat twin, hand start and hand change. My 1975 Norton commando, and my BSA Goldstar.
So, based on my earlier statement about driving on the wrong (right) side of the road, I am now seriously thinking of bringing my 1955 Austin-Healy frogeye sprite, which I had actually promised to a friend of mine


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## redwolf (Sep 13, 2012)

As I am sure travelling-man is aware (being an ex soutie) the amount of really old UK bikes that are lying around in the likes of Zimbabwe, Zambia and Botswana, just rotting away in some forgotten garden patch or shed is unbelievable. Anyone up for a business venture, BEFORE I leave Africa?????


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## travelling-man (Jun 17, 2011)

redwolf said:


> I honestly CANNOT believe this!!!!!!
> In the last 7 months, I have just sold my 1953 Vellocette 200 flat twin, hand start and hand change. My 1975 Norton commando, and my BSA Goldstar.
> So, based on my earlier statement about driving on the wrong (right) side of the road, I am now seriously thinking of bringing my 1955 Austin-Healy frogeye sprite, which I had actually promised to a friend of mine


I'd have bought all 3 of those bikes from you sight unseen. 

Why not register one bike to your wife and the Sprite to you and bring them over tax free and pay the tax on the cheaper bike.


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## travelling-man (Jun 17, 2011)

redwolf said:


> As I am sure travelling-man is aware (being an ex soutie) the amount of really old UK bikes that are lying around in the likes of Zimbabwe, Zambia and Botswana, just rotting away in some forgotten garden patch or shed is unbelievable. Anyone up for a business venture, BEFORE I leave Africa?????


I know of several collections over there..... One is in Zim and I can buy the entire collection for about E4K in Zim and sell in the UK for more than 10 times that BUT Zim being Zim, you can't get export & police clearance certificates for them & without those, you can't get them into the UK or Europe & so they're effectively worthless. :confused2:


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## redwolf (Sep 13, 2012)

travelling-man said:


> I know of several collections over there..... One is in Zim and I can buy the entire collection for about E4K in Zim and sell in the UK for more than 10 times that BUT Zim being Zim, you can't get export & police clearance certificates for them & without those, you can't get them into the UK or Europe & so they're effectively worthless. :confused2:


Where there's a will there's a way!!!

I have some VERY good contacts in the traffic dept here, registration is the easy part, class 3..rebuild


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## redwolf (Sep 13, 2012)

travelling-man said:


> I'd have bought all 3 of those bikes from you sight unseen.
> 
> Why not register one bike to your wife and the Sprite to you and bring them over tax free and pay the tax on the cheaper bike.


I have already sent a mail to a friend in CT to look at starting the process for me. The frogeye I have re-built from scratch, love them cars, one of the first I had back in the 60's, the first was actually a ford popular (sit up and beg), followed by a 3 wheeled mesherschmidt then frogeye, followed by my most favorite classic of all time Jag MK II


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## travelling-man (Jun 17, 2011)

Funnily enough, the motor museum in White River is restoring a Frogeye they found in Mozambique that had been used for racing..... it's gonna be a stunner.


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## oronero (Aug 24, 2012)

I have a Jag mkII axle in my TR7 V8 rally car, it was a 'works' period modification as the std unit was as useful as a chocolate fire extinguisher.


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## redwolf (Sep 13, 2012)

hahahaha....funnily enough, that's exactly how I came across mine, as an ex racer. Inside was a bit chewed up and the gearbox shot, took a while but managed to get things sorted, those little 995 austins are great to work on


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