# Life in Spain?



## Onmarkoneill (Mar 20, 2018)

Hi guys

Been visiting spain for few years as my parents live there, is life in Spain for kids to grow up in good and worth the move??

3 young kids , be around the Estepona Area? Just want some feedback on people that moved there kids..

Thanks


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Onmarkoneill said:


> Hi guys
> 
> Been visiting spain for few years as my parents live there, is life in Spain for kids to grow up in good and worth the move??
> 
> ...


I didn't move here with kids, but I can tell you that your experience will vary greatly depending on 
A - The age of your children
B - Whether you'll be looking for work

If any of the children are above primary school age you may have to consider private education for them due to language issues, and that will increase the budget. Don't be fooled by people who say that children are like sponges; some are and some aren't. Most under 10's, given the right support at school and home learn the language. Some don't and others have more emotional difficulties settling than others and that will affect their learning. Some kids have learning difficulties in their own language so giving them another to contend with is not helping matters.
As for work, well Spain still has a lot more unemployment than the UK.

We need more info about your situation.


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## Onmarkoneill (Mar 20, 2018)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Onmarkoneill said:
> 
> 
> > Hi guys
> ...


Hi

Kids are very young and speak 2 language's already, 6 , 3 & 10 months, my Partner is polish so they speak English and polish,,, we are gonna start Spanish lessons for them too.

As for work were gonna take a lease on a restaurant premises and open a nice restaurant, tricky in the south of Spain but I done my home work and research on this, plus I'm a chef years and worked around the world.. 

Any more info be great thanks


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

If I were you I'd make it a short lease. Presumably you've thoroughly researched the area in peak and off-season.

I live in the Estepona area and eat out a lot. The area is saturated with restaurants of all types, ranging from small local backstreet cafes and tapas bars to classy restaurants with very good reputations.

In the winter season even the established restaurants stay empty most nights. Some close down for the winter. Restaurants in Estepona like La Rada, La Pampa and Pescador are packed in summer and winter but they have a solid local clientele.

The last time I went into Estepona I noticed several new eating places in the busiest areas, Calle Real, Calle Malaga, the streets parallel to the Paseo Maritimo. Japanese, Italian, French, Thai and of course Spanish. 
A lot will depend on location.
Benahavis and Cancelada villages have several restaurants, all with established local and tourist clientele. Both these villages are dead in the off-seasons.

As long as you have a Plan B if things go wrong, I guess it's worth a go. Presumably you'll have to apply for your licences, health and safety and other inspections. Good luck with that, if you speak little or no Spanish you'll need professional help.


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

Sounds like you at least know your way around the business which is a must if you are going to work a restaurant. However without a pretty good level of Spanish you are probably going to have big problems. You might feel that customers will be happy with English but as you know you need to have good connections with suppliers and they will most likely speak only Spanish. After a while it can be hard trying to get through everyday with even fairly good Spanish never mind basic. Plus you will not understand any of the admin without some kind of translation help and that might not come free. It is a big challenge you have set yourselves especially with a young family


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## Onmarkoneill (Mar 20, 2018)

mrypg9 said:


> If I were you I'd make it a short lease. Presumably you've thoroughly researched the area in peak and off-season.
> 
> I live in the Estepona area and eat out a lot. The area is saturated with restaurants of all types, ranging from small local backstreet cafes and tapas bars to classy restaurants with very good reputations.
> 
> ...



Hi 

Thanks for you comment , yeah I have done alot of research, a massive amount over few months, my parents have a place in Cancelada last 14 years and we been over alot so know the area well, El Carnisieo is the only restaurant there that is ticking over all year round, few closed in that village, I have a plan B for sure, I know a few top chefs in Marbella I'm close with that I worked in the Michelin star kitchens, got Good back round and experience to get into a good place if all doesn't work out, listen Locals is the people I'll be targeting the most, I ate out alot in a few good restaurants in Estepona, nothing special and think there is good market there to do well, the great produce in the Markets that's available to chefs to amazing, it's a tricky buisness to get into alright in the south of Spain.. as for licences and all its straight forward compared to here . Gotta take risks in life for a good life for your kids .. outdoor life 👍


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

It is true you life might need some risks to it but saying as though it justifies doing something might be very foolhardy.

People tend to think Spain will give them and their family a better life. They tend to think their children will live in a better society because the weather is warmer etc. I am, as a parent, sorry to say it is not true. You will work harder here than in the UK and will have less time for your kids unless you make them hang out in your restaurant from morning to night which is what Spanish families do. Spanish families usually work them as family businesses meaning everyone in the extended family has a part to play. That is the only way to make it work economically. My Spanish/English friend told me he worked 12 hour days 7 days a week for over 2 years as a waiter just to maintain the same level living as he had in England working part time. Experience as a chef is great but will not keep you afloat.
What ever you do do not throw everything in to this. I would try working for someone else as a chef first so your partner has time for your kids.


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## Onmarkoneill (Mar 20, 2018)

kaipa said:


> Sounds like you at least know your way around the business which is a must if you are going to work a restaurant. However without a pretty good level of Spanish you are probably going to have big problems. You might feel that customers will be happy with English but as you know you need to have good connections with suppliers and they will most likely speak only Spanish. After a while it can be hard trying to get through everyday with even fairly good Spanish never mind basic. Plus you will not understand any of the admin without some kind of translation help and that might not come free. It is a big challenge you have set yourselves especially with a young family


Spanish side is all good, started lessons plus I have friends from Marbella which are Spanish to help me out, Front of House Waiters will be Spanish, locals only, I'll pick up the lingo fast, I lived in Germany for 3 years and spoke that very good in a matter of time, my dad's Solicitor over there gonna help with the tax and licences etc... Admin side of restaurant will be my misses and she ran restaurant's


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## Onmarkoneill (Mar 20, 2018)

kaipa said:


> It is true you life might need some risks to it but saying as though it justifies doing something might be very foolhardy.
> 
> People tend to think Spain will give them and their family a better life. They tend to think their children will live in a better society because the weather is warmer etc. I am, as a parent, sorry to say it is not true. You will work harder here than in the UK and will have less time for your kids unless you make them hang out in your restaurant from morning to night which is what Spanish families do. Spanish families usually work them as family businesses meaning everyone in the extended family has a part to play. That is the only way to make it work economically. My Spanish/English friend told me he worked 12 hour days 7 days a week for over 2 years as a waiter just to maintain the same level living as he had in England working part time. Experience as a chef is great but will not keep you afloat.
> What ever you do do not throw everything in to this. I would try working for someone else as a chef first so your partner has time for your kids.


I'm in the industry long enough to understand,, I worked 18 hours a day over 6 day in Ramsays restaurants for years , I know the story very well, I have alot of family there for help so we have that all planned out, I know the fundamentals of a family run restaurants as I worked in them also for years, life in Ireland is **** and a complete Rat Race , giving my kids the outdoor lifestyle is what I love them to have, and another plus for that there Grandparents, cousins & aunties all living with them..


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

Sounds like you know what you are doing which begs the question why did you need any advice in the first place? Anyway you seem pretty determined and strong minded so good for you. Keep up the spanish.


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## Onmarkoneill (Mar 20, 2018)

kaipa said:


> Sounds like you know what you are doing which begs the question why did you need any advice in the first place? Anyway you seem pretty determined and strong minded so good for you. Keep up the spanish.


Ah you know yourself I would put a serious amount of money and investment unless you know you can make it, took alot to consider, was gonna do it here but so difficult here with insurances etc... rent is killing it too, I just wanted people advice and opinion on life in Spain for kids , Schools, life in general and society.. not about opening a restaurant.. thanks for the info and help 👍👍... interesting what you say about the winter season with restaurants closing,, Marbella end seems alot better on that front, my friends is head chef in Puerto Romano and he says last 2 winters it's getting better and busier, hope this Brexit doesn't have a major effect on it though


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

Sorry I now notice that your question seems to relate to bringing up your kids in Spain as opposed to Ireland. Well as a dad of a 12 year old it comes as a shock to find my boy sitting in his room with curtains closed playing his Sony PlayStation cursing away in Spanish and refusing to go out when today it is about 23 degrees sun shining and beaches bustling. That might sound odd but ask anyone with kids out here and you will find that they pretty all will say their kids just get bored of sun and beaches and do exactly what the kids do in the UK. It's a funny old world. Good luck


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## Onmarkoneill (Mar 20, 2018)

kaipa said:


> Sorry I now notice that your question seems to relate to bringing up your kids in Spain as opposed to Ireland. Well as a dad of a 12 year old it comes as a shock to find my boy sitting in his room with curtains closed playing his Sony PlayStation cursing away in Spanish and refusing to go out when today it is about 23 degrees sun shining and beaches bustling. That might sound odd but ask anyone with kids out here and you will find that they pretty all will say their kids just get bored of sun and beaches and do exactly what the kids do in the UK. It's a funny old world. Good luck[/QUOTE
> 
> All good, really Yeah??? It's the kids of this day and age now,, all in playing video games etc.. not out playing football or what ever..same here... so makes no difference with weather etc.. funny that.. thanks again 👍


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

So regarding schools. Your children under 8 will be fine in state schools. Your 10 year old will struggle especially if neither you or your partner are Spanish speaking. Believe you me. I work as a teacher and witness it every year. Your child can still attend but might have to repeat a year. Try looking at private schools that are bilingual . Otherwise not a problem


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## Onmarkoneill (Mar 20, 2018)

kaipa said:


> So regarding schools. Your children under 8 will be fine in state schools. Your 10 year old will struggle especially if neither you or your partner are Spanish speaking. Believe you me. I work as a teacher and witness it every year. Your child can still attend but might have to repeat a year. Try looking at private schools that are bilingual . Otherwise not a problem


Ok thanks for that. See were gonna head over next January or there abouts, Maya our 10 year old she will be at that time , we were gonna get Spanish lessons for her now, a lady close by comes to your house and as a 1 to 1 for €10 an hour which is good, Now Maya speaks , English ,Polish and Irish all fluently so she is multi lingo at 3 to 4 years old so she should pick it up quick we hope, thanks for advice .. one quick one is the school days quite long for kids I heard?


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

No not at primary 9.00-1400 
If the school is on the end system. But lots of homework. About an hour a day and lots of exams. Be prepared much tougher than uk


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

kaipa said:


> No not at primary 9.00-1400
> If the school is on the end system. But lots of homework. About an hour a day and lots of exams. Be prepared much tougher than uk


Here primary is 9:00 - 14:00 (no lunch) 9:00 - 15:00 (with lunch) if the parents have voted for a continuous timetable. If not 9:00 - 16:00 with lunch and longer break time. However the timetable varies at the beginning and end of the year...


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Here primary is 9:00 - 14:00 (no lunch) 9:00 - 15:00 (with lunch) if the parents have voted for a continuous timetable. If not 9:00 - 16:00 with lunch and longer break time. However the timetable varies at the beginning and end of the year...


8 am to 2 pm in most of Andalucia. Then home for lunch.


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

Depends where you live. Kids like the jornada completa but some parents feel it requires finding people to look after their kids for 3 hours more a day. Either way the poor things seem to spend their whole time studying for exams so the day might seem short but the work involved is quite a lot.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Onmarkoneill said:


> Hi
> 
> Thanks for you comment , yeah I have done alot of research, a massive amount over few months, my parents have a place in Cancelada last 14 years and we been over alot so know the area well, El Carnisieo is the only restaurant there that is ticking over all year round, few closed in that village, I have a plan B for sure, I know a few top chefs in Marbella I'm close with that I worked in the Michelin star kitchens, got Good back round and experience to get into a good place if all doesn't work out, listen Locals is the people I'll be targeting the most, I ate out alot in a few good restaurants in Estepona, nothing special and think there is good market there to do well, the great produce in the Markets that's available to chefs to amazing, it's a tricky buisness to get into alright in the south of Spain.. as for licences and all its straight forward compared to here . Gotta take risks in life for a good life for your kids .. outdoor life 👍


Not true that quite a few restaurants have closed. The only restaurant closed for any period of time is El Legado which closes over Christmas then reopens in mid January. We eat there regularly and walk our dogs with Juan the owner. One other restaurant did close briefly, was Spanish, then changed hands to Irish, now a rather seedy looking Oriental which doesn't seem to be doing well whenever I pass by, though I don't go thare that often.

You cannot be serious in your comment that getting licences in Spain is 'straightforward' compared to the UK. You start with three disadvantages....you are a guiri ( foreigner) you don't speak Spanish and you are not 'enchufado', i.e. you don't have those all important contacts with people who can get things done or be obstructive.
If you are employing staff you need to be au fait with Spanish labour laws which are far more demanding than those in the UK.

Targetting locals will not be easy until you speak and understand Spanish to a high level unless of course you mean guiri locals. 

Yes, business life involves risks. It also involves much research, thorough knowledge of your intended area, hard to get when you can't speak to locals in their language, familiarity with all laws, regulations etc relating to your intended business area, plenty of finance for your venture and agood business plan.
Without these, risk can slide into recklessness.
Your children are young so if things don't work out it will be easier to move on.


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## Onmarkoneill (Mar 20, 2018)

mrypg9 said:


> Onmarkoneill said:
> 
> 
> > Hi
> ...



Hi

Yes the restaurant was called Aidans was terrible, La Posada closed down to and up for sale, I know the area very well, Parents are there years, speak the lingo so all good there? I have friends in Marbella (Spanish chefs to give me a dig out) , I'm learning the language now and should have a good base of it when I move there,

Opening a restaurant in spain is aloolt more straight forward than IRELAND trust me I know,, I'm in the industry all my life,, the health and safety in spain is so more laid back than here also ...thry need to up there standard in spain..bit shocking what I seen visiting places around, 

I have good Spanish connections to help and work with us so not fazed by that at all..i wouldn't do it other wise..makes no sense .. be going to a bigger town also.. cancelada , Benhavis to small


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

I think what the other person is saying is something you will not have found on any research. That's what is known as a enchufe. If you live in a Spanish area and start a business which aims to compete with other Spanish businesses you will need it. Some think of it as a kind of community corruption others as a simple fact of social life. Either way everyone uses it if they have it. As soon as you say you are targetting locals I think of your competition and how their enchufe might work against you. Put the shoe on other foot : imagine a top class spanish chef with zero English telling everyone how easy it is to start a restaurant in the UK. How does he communicate with his staff? Surely the communication and no enchufe will put you at an extreme disadvantage ?


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Onmarkoneill said:


> I have good Spanish connections to help and work with us so not fazed by that at all..i wouldn't do it other wise..makes no sense .. be going to a bigger town also.. cancelada , Benhavis to small


You say he needs enchufe


kaipa said:


> I think what the other person is saying is something you will not have found on any research. That's what is known as a enchufe. If you live in a Spanish area and start a business which aims to compete with other Spanish businesses you will need it.


He says he has connections
= the same


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## JimmyLocksDad (Nov 2, 2017)

Good luck, hope it all works out for you and your family


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## Onmarkoneill (Mar 20, 2018)

kaipa said:


> I think what the other person is saying is something you will not have found on any research. That's what is known as a enchufe. If you live in a Spanish area and start a business which aims to compete with other Spanish businesses you will need it. Some think of it as a kind of community corruption others as a simple fact of social life. Either way everyone uses it if they have it. As 4soon as you say you are targetting locals I think of your competition and how their enchufe might work against you. Put the shoe on other foot : imagine a top class spanish chef with zero English telling everyone how easy it is to start a restaurant in the UK. How does he communicate with his staff? Surely the communication and no enchufe will put you at an extreme disadvantage ?


Read before you waste your time writing,, I have connections there,, Friends that are chefs, Solicitors , Front of House etc .. Amigos.... I know all what to do... look at the food that is produced at most of the good restaurants around .. bit shocking to say the least. There is top Spanish chefs in London also doing well lol... I meet them.. you let the food & value for money speak for its self with a good SPANISH front of House team . 

Lol alot of Expats on this Forum very negitve ...


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## JimmyLocksDad (Nov 2, 2017)

Onmarkoneill said:


> Lol alot of Expats on this Forum very negitve ...


Best advice is just ignore them, you'll soon identify the ones who think they know it all but actually as you say are just negative.


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## Onmarkoneill (Mar 20, 2018)

JimmyLocksDad said:


> Onmarkoneill said:
> 
> 
> > Lol alot of Expats on this Forum very negitve ...
> ...


Thanks a mill for your comment and advice, but surprised with some of the comments been very negative, like if some one putting a good few thousand into a restaurant in sure they would have make sure it's 100% ... thanks again


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

Sorry if you think the advice is too negative but you did ask for advice and therefore you have to be prepared to read what people think. You wanted to know if moving with your family to Spain will be worth it because you feel it is not worth staying in Ireland.
You are confident that you can have a successful business here and you have all the necessary support and knowledge required for that. You haven't really asked a lot about how things might be for family so it reads as if it is solely the business that matters. 
I don't know about the restaurant trade as a profession but what I do know is that you can not just have a tick-list based on research to evaluate how successful it will be. Without 3 years of Spanish I think you will struggle. That's not being negative just realistic.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

As I live in the area too, have done for years, know it very well, speak whst you call 'the lingo', I will look forward eagerly to the opening night of your restaurant, wherever it may be.
Maybe even give it a good review on Tripadvisor.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

JimmyLocksDad said:


> Best advice is just ignore them, you'll soon identify the ones who think they know it all but actually as you say are just negative.


There was an interesting debate some threads back on the very real differences between 'negativity' and 'realism'.

Because there are differences and very real ones.


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

I agree. Warning people of the real dangers of assuming that because you know how to well in the UK you will equally succeed in Spain is not being negative. I sometimes wish someone had told me how arrogant I was about coming here and talking up the dream. It has taken a long period of having to be humble, embarrased and contrite to reach a position of being able to survive here as an immigrant and a long long time to speak Spanish. I think it is extremely ignorant to suggest that learning the "lingo " is just something that you pick up on the way


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## Onmarkoneill (Mar 20, 2018)

kaipa said:


> Sorry if you think the advice is too negative but you did ask for advice and therefore you have to be prepared to read what people think. You wanted to know if moving with your family to Spain will be worth it because you feel it is not worth staying in Ireland.
> You are confident that you can have a successful business here and you have all the necessary support and knowledge required for that. You haven't really asked a lot about how things might be for family so it reads as if it is solely the business that matters.
> I don't know about the restaurant trade as a profession but what I do know is that you can not just have a tick-list based on research to evaluate how successful it will be. Without 3 years of Spanish I think you will struggle. That's not being negative just realistic.


Lads go way to the top and read my first and only question ...getting carried away with yourselfs

Plus I know about learning language and living abroad,,, I lived in London , Germnay for few years and learnt the language , Australia etc... plus I'm doing Spanish classes here in Ireland NOT UK,, it's another year before I head over. So a year of Spanish for me and my kids will start us off slowly. 

MY PARENTS LIVE THERE 14 YEARS...THEY WORK AND KNOW IT BETTER THAN MOST OF US LOL


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## Onmarkoneill (Mar 20, 2018)

mrypg9 said:


> As I live in the area too, have done for years, know it very well, speak whst you call 'the lingo', I will look forward eagerly to the opening night of your restaurant, wherever it may be.
> Maybe even give it a good review on Tripadvisor.




Lads go way to the top and read my first and only question ...getting carried away with yourselfs
Plus I know about learning language and living abroad,,, I lived in London , Germnay for few years and learnt the language , Australia etc... plus I'm doing Spanish classes here in Ireland NOT UK,, it's another year before I head over. So a year of Spanish for me and my kids will start us off slowly. 
MY PARENTS LIVE THERE 14 YEARS...THEY WORK AND KNOW IT BETTER THAN MOST OF US LOL

I never asked about the profession...now how was it raising your kids in Spain????????????


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Asked & answered :closed_2:


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