# Professional investment Consultants



## woot79 (Apr 30, 2012)

Has anyone used PIC here in Dubai? Are they legit? Any details would be helpful. Thank you.


----------



## TallyHo (Aug 21, 2011)

Part of the DeVere group.

They're not really consultants but salesmen pushing you into investment schemes that don't really benefit you. They're also very litigious and aggressively chase negative reviews online.

Pretty funny description:

Mrs Madison's Dubai: The Financial Advisor

Muscat Confidential: DeVere Oman - Locally somewhat bent "Financial Advisors" - caught engaged in activities outside their license.

If you are American you should really be talking to American investment advisors. Most of the local investment advisors (including the good ones) are geared towards British expats. Because the financial regulatory laws and taxation policies are different in the UK many investment plans peddled here in Dubai aren't suitable for Americans.



woot79 said:


> Has anyone used PIC here in Dubai? Are they legit? Any details would be helpful. Thank you.


----------



## Jumeirah Jim (Jan 24, 2011)

hahaha

PIC DeVere have a terrible terrible name. Once you get here you will soon be warned to steer well clear. 

I've always followed that advice so to be honest I can't tell you what they do so badly. 

What really, really p1ss3s me off about them is their persistence. Once they get your number you will, 100% for sure, be incessantly hounded by them. No matter how rude you are to their cold calls, however patient you are explaining that you are really not interested they will still hound you. If you change your number they will miraculously find your new number within days. 

I add all the number they use to call me on as contacts in my iPhone and then block them. Trouble is everytime they recruit someone new they give them my numbe to call with a fresh mobile. To say I am "short" with these poor newbies is a huge understatement...

In answer to your more general question, there is/was a mod here, Elphaba, who is very good. She does/did write a column for The National newspaper. I haven't seen her name for a long time but someone here will know where she is. She is recommended and (rare for the UAE) properly qualified and experienced in a completely unregulated market. Unfortunately the firm she works/worked for are a less than savoury bunch and have recently been hounding me DeVere style  Elephaba is fine though.


----------



## woot79 (Apr 30, 2012)

Thanks for the advice.


----------



## twowheelsgood (Feb 21, 2013)

I had six calls from them today and fobbed them off after the first call, and then refused all further calls - I was overseas so didn't fancy running up a roaming bill.

The bit that put me off was that they clearly buy numbers and names and then just ting them without any thought. They actually rang my wife's PAYG phone and asked for me. The only company that ties the number with my name is Du and that's who they got it from. If they got it from any other source, the number is associated with my wife.

I am quite looking forward to them ringing me again, so I can be mean to them


----------



## blazeaway (Sep 28, 2011)

woot79 said:


> Has anyone used PIC here in Dubai? Are they legit? Any details would be helpful. Thank you.


I use a "local" Brit gut who is very good


----------



## blazeaway (Sep 28, 2011)

twowheelsgood said:


> I had six calls from them today and fobbed them off after the first call, and then refused all further calls - I was overseas so didn't fancy running up a roaming bill.
> 
> The bit that put me off was that they clearly buy numbers and names and then just ting them without any thought. They actually rang my wife's PAYG phone and asked for me. The only company that ties the number with my name is Du and that's who they got it from. If they got it from any other source, the number is associated with my wife.
> 
> I am quite looking forward to them ringing me again, so I can be mean to them


They use linkedin a lot to


----------



## vantage (May 10, 2012)

i kept a de vere cold-calling guy on the phone for 45 minutes a few months ago when i was really (really) bored, and sitting at the Mall waiting for someone.

I was pretending to want to invest around aed 500,000 with him and he was slavering all over the shop.

The call was terminated when i mentioned to him that my call had prevented somewhere near hundred people receiving irritating cold calls.

he called back an hour later, clearly the same guy, but putting on a voice pretending to be a Senior Manager demanding Consultation fees.

steer

well

clear


----------



## Fletch1969 (Nov 12, 2011)

Sorry, this is going to be a bit of a rant..

There are a lot of people with zero experience in finance on commission only packages here who are in my opinion dubiously accurate in their advice. You could be forgiven for thinking that they sell you what is best for their commission and then drop you like a stone as soon as thats in and you have made it clear that you are not interested in upping your investment, (and hence making them more commission); though I really couldn't comment on that. 

Personally, I am investing through one of these firms in a long term plan and I have both positive and negative things to say about the experience. The original salesman left the company very shortly after I started the plan and were it not for the fact that it is now being managed by someone I knew in London before I left the UK, (ex senior Finance officer in an international organisation - a real finance expert) I would have stopped it very soon after I started it and created whatever fuss I could about it. The original guy was simply dishonest in respect of how much I would lose if I stopped the plan and took the cash out before it matured. Having said I was likely to be in Dubai for 2-3 years and I wanted to save over that period of time so that when I returned to the UK I would have a pot of cash to pay off a mortgage/deposit on a new place I was told I'd lose a small % if I did so. On asking recently what that % is, I discovered its very substantial. A lot more than I was lead to believe at the time of starting the plan. 

I'm not going to name the organisation that originally managed this, as I've heard the same story from people about several of them. The positive side of this is that with a well managed plan I am making significantly more than I would through any other investment, so I've taken the hit on my original intention and have replanned around that. To hold my hand up, I could have checked more throughly before I started the whole thing, even though it was done through a personal recommendation. 

Buyer beware.

I've had repeated calls from various firms pestering/hounding me; sometimes trying to persuade me to not work with consultant 1 that they knew had just called me but swap to consultant 2 . I've had emails faked to make it look like we have had a long conversation and in one case to make it look like we are connected on LinkedIn. I think only one of the big firms out here has not done this to me so far. I'd love to be earning what they seem to think I am earning and also to know how I got on the database..

Anyone that does this gets added to my 'Ignore' contact on my phone and I simply never hear from them. I've also blocked at my server any emails from domains I don't want to be pestered by. 

My strong advice is to not entertain buying anything from any cold calling. I'm sorry to anyone thats reading this thats honestly starting out in this business and is genuine, (there must be one of you out there), but the behaviour I have seen from almost everyone in this respect is frankly appalling. 

That said, so many people here make no provision for the future whatsoever and they really need to. 

I'd be very happy to make a personal recommendation and an introduction offline to someone I know and trust here.


----------



## Stevesolar (Dec 21, 2012)

Hi,

I have developed a strategy for deflecting calls from unwelcome sales companies that really works for me.
Depending on my mood - I sometimes go for the simple non-confrontational version or sometimes for the wind-up version!

The simple version means that when I receive a call from Bloggs Financial adviser - I tell them that my father is a life long financial adviser and that he has arranged everything for me through his company. This gives them no opportunity to offer anything - as why would I not put my investments through my family member?

The confrontational version (which I used the other day on an unsolicited call from an adviser) was that I had been offered a job by that company and that when I did my homework, I decided that my reputation would be damaged working for them. If I wont work for a company - you can be sure that I would not invest with them!

To date - this method has worked here and in the UK for financial advisers, pensions, double glazing etc.

Cheers
Steve


----------



## vantage (May 10, 2012)

Stevesolar said:


> To date - this method has worked here and in the UK for financial advisers, pensions, *double glazing* etc.
> 
> Cheers
> Steve


Back in the UK, as a student, i was cold called by a well-known double glazing Company, and offered free replacement doors and windows if i ordered a Conservatory.
Sounded great, so i gave them my full address, and they said they'd come out and measure.

Apparently it was my fault that i didn't tell them i lived in an apartment on the 3rd floor. The address of "flat 3F, 9 XXX Street" should have been a clue, but apparently not.
Their 'Surveyor' (greasy oik with a tape measure and shiny suit) was not in the least bit impressed when i asked - dead-pan - how they planned to support my new conservatory, and would i need permission from the neighbours below.

Anything you can do to keep these maggots from cold calling other people is a good deed indeed!


----------



## Windsweptdragon (Aug 12, 2012)

I've not been contacted by anyone in UAE for a long-time now, maybe because I turned down every 'advisor' here in the first two years.  They had a great knack of asking to speak to someone senior and ending up with me. I'm contacted more now by people ringing from the Philippines or Sri Lanka, they obviously get turned down even quicker.


----------



## londonmandan (Jul 23, 2013)

Whilst I agree with the comments about the likes of DeVere/PIC and the others they have tarnished the market with their dodgy dealings which in turn has ruined it for the legitimate companies that try to setup shop here.

Some companies actually do help people and are truthful about how they operate.

I know a decent company that is quite new and my friend has been with them since the start, he got cold called and thought twice about it but thought he'd see what they had to offer turns out the guy was decent, started small and has gone from there.


----------



## kmdxb (Jan 19, 2014)

I always work on the concept that if someone is cold-calling me, they are not someone I will deal with. Simple as that. Cold-call me, and you will never get anything from me, and I will never deal with you or the company you work for. The only thing I will do, when I can be bothered, is try to waste as much of your time as I can.

There are various words and descriptions that can be given to cold-callers, but they are not once suitable for repeating in a public forum!


----------



## londonmandan (Jul 23, 2013)

Cold calling has been around for decades and it will never stop that's a fact but how do you expect someone to get business without actively seeking it? Cold calling is kind of like advertising, are you saying you would never ever buy something just because you didn't like the advert? People always say word of mouth blah blah blah but you can't sit and wait for word of mouth or you will just be there for ever.


----------



## QOFE (Apr 28, 2013)

londonmandan said:


> Cold calling has been around for decades and it will never stop that's a fact but how do you expect someone to get business without actively seeking it? Cold calling is kind of like advertising, are you saying you would never ever buy something just because you didn't like the advert? People always say word of mouth blah blah blah but you can't sit and wait for word of mouth or you will just be there for ever.


I feel there is an excessive amount of cold calling and spam texts here.
Cold calling is NEVER acceptable and spam texts annoy the s**t out of me. 
I'm also saying that there are plenty of products I'll never, ever buy just because the ads have been extremely annoying and that even goes for certain toilet paper!
How about doing proper marketing with qualified staff and good products??


----------



## londonmandan (Jul 23, 2013)

You can't blame the people that do it as that's just their job but you can blame the people that sold your number on to them.

The people that call you aren't all qualified that is true but most of the advisors that will see you have some form of qualification that is true (or at least in the company that I know of) and they all deal with HMRC products so it's all legit.

As I said it's the DeVere/GlobalEye/Fund Advisors of the world that annoy us all

Oh if you wanna know what the DeVere/PIC mob all look like just head on down to Dubai Marina Yacht Club, they will be the ones all wearing suits and white shirts on ladies night getting the girls to get them drinks :lol:


----------



## kmdxb (Jan 19, 2014)

Advertising does not call me up and cause me inconvenience and waste my time. Advertising does not keep calling me even though it has been told time and time again not to. It does not blatantly lie about where it got my details. It does not try and threaten me when it does not get it's own way. You certainly can blame the people who make the calls for the way they behave on those calls.

Maybe you can try and say cold-calling is just advertising, but why the hell would you want to rely on the most hated form of advertising in existence. I have been involved in running very successful business for more than 20 years now, and have never once had anyone cold-call anybody. It is a practice which only ever brings your business a bad reputation. Advertising in local print media, press releases and word-of-mouth have brought in every customer.

People who for whatever reason believe in cold-calling will never be convinced that it is bad. People who hate cold-calling will never be convinced it's good. From everyone that I know, there are way more people that hate it than there are who like it...


----------



## Beamrider (May 18, 2012)

Ok, my experience so far:

- I have been cold called by a PIC Biz Dev agent (British accent and name) a few weeks ago. I am fairly sure they purchase their contacts list from du.

- Being now 41 and not having any retirement plan nor having remotely thought about it, I decided to give them a chance and arranged an appointment.

- Because of working schedules, I had to reschedule the appointment several times across weeks. I have to say that the agent called me only at the times I asked him to (e.g. "sorry, I can't come tomorrow, can you call me back on Sunday lunchtime and I tell you when we can meet?") and none else. It was always the same guy btw.

- When I went there - I chose to meet them at the PIC offices in Marina - I have been introduced to one of their brokers. Brit guy, description as per previous posts. Nice office, FWIW.

- He profiled me and took me through what they do and what they can offer me based on my requirements (I have already invested in property and look for an extremely safe investment). We agreed for a retirement plan, and he would come back to me with a proposal.

- More weeks pass, as I have to bounce the appointment several times because of work and travel plans. We finally meet last week.

- The plan offered to me seems decent. It's an offshore mix, based mostly on bonds, relatively safe, by a known worldwide insurance/investment company (the name begins with Z and it's the biggest city in Switzerland, hint hint). The guy went through all the details and especially the charges, then handed me the related documentation (plan brochure by the insurance company, sample of predicted yield, etc.) I am reading thoroughly through the brochure and I don't see yet any deviation from what he said.

- I haven't taken any decision yet, also because I have already disclosed to them that I am talking to other investment advisors as well, but so far what I gather is in my case they are acting as brokers, i.e. reselling me a third party investment package, and provide advise in case I want to change the mix (the idea is to review it every 3 months).

Summarizing - yes, they cold call, but I can't see any blatant signal that PIC/deVere are scammers. Apart of rumours, does anybody have any example of misbehaviour by them? I'd like to take a decision soon and this can tilt the balance between an option or another.


----------



## twowheelsgood (Feb 21, 2013)

The priniple problem with such organisations here is that you have no meaningful comeback if it all goes wrong.

At least in the Uk we have a numbner of bodies who can sue the *** off them if they misbehave.

PPI misselling is probably rife here but nobody cares.


----------



## jk_1337 (Oct 25, 2012)

I have no idea why I'm only just reading about these guys now - after I signed up (everything seemed legit and above board - in fact, identical experience to Beamrider)..

The only issue I have had and it might be a red flag for some is that I was told that I could use my credit card each month for the investment and there would be no extra charges - however my bank charged me extra and this was 'the first' for PIC because this was 'unusual' ... Still waiting to get my reimbursement which has been promised to me but ruddy hell, after reading some of these comments, I wonder what I've gotten myself into now...


----------



## Gavtek (Aug 23, 2009)

Erm.... I would do a little more research than what you have read on here.

Particularly the "investment" you've signed up for. Let me guess, one of Royal London 360/Generali/Royal Skandia?


----------



## Dave-o (Aug 23, 2015)

I can only echo doing your own research.

Why pay someone else to buy shares for you when you can do it online yourself? And do you really trust their crystal ball in what's happening in the future? These guys don't know any special insider titbits of knowledge nobody else knows about. Always question someone's motives in why they want to put your money into their chosen investments. It's certainly not to make you money, it's to make them money.

Personally, I manage all my investments myself. Some have made money, some have lost money, but you only lose money when you press the sell button and on the whole I'm very happy. I also have nobody to blame but myself if I lose out.


----------



## jk_1337 (Oct 25, 2012)

Gavtek said:


> Erm.... I would do a little more research than what you have read on here.
> 
> Particularly the "investment" you've signed up for. Let me guess, one of Royal London 360/Generali/Royal Skandia?


7 months down the line.. probably too late to do much now.

none of those.. its all done thru Zurich.


----------



## jk_1337 (Oct 25, 2012)

Dave-o said:


> Why pay someone else to buy shares for you when you can do it online yourself?


so you do everything for yourself do you? like literally, everything? :juggle: 

fwiw I do feel like an absolute idiot for not researching more - and yeah, probably could do stuff myself if I was able to spend the time each night learning and implementing... or you know, I could just get someone else to do it...


----------



## Dave-o (Aug 23, 2015)

Yeah, everything. You choose how much you want to invest, what stocks, commodities and shares you want to put it into, when to buy, when to sell, how risky the investments are and what the potential rewards and losses can be. Started off playing with sums I could afford to loose - the type of money you could spend on a drinking session and just picked it up as I go along.

Sure, a full time trader could make a lot more money but I'm just happy that I'm getting a better rate of interest than the bank.

But if you just want to give someone your life savings to look after it for you, I don't like the lack of control over my money and question what calibre of people are assigned to your case and exactly what they're doing with your money. Banks offer terrible rates of interest but at least you know (or hope) they will still be there when you want to get your hands on your money again and it hasn't all disappeared with no transparency.


----------



## jk_1337 (Oct 25, 2012)

yeah, you have the know how through, I'm guessing, many hours of learnining over a significant period of time... unless of course, this is something you can pick up on in a short span of time but really cut your teeth on once you start investing and winning/losing..

Like anything, some things can be done yourself (unclog the toilet) or you can get someone else to do it (plumber) - the question is time, effort, money and the ever important.. know how. Yeah you can watch a youtube video to do just about anything but not always the best way?


----------



## Lovish (Jul 25, 2015)

I don't know much about professional traders in other nations... but in India I prefer to invest with professional traders as they keep the ball rolling, and in india even though bank rates of interest are not that bad approx 9% in comparison to 11% inflation.... its kinda mandate if you need additional money keep investing with rates higher than 11% so you are at least at par... The guy that I have been dealing with has given me approx 30% return annually for investments having a time frame of approx 3 years or more and 18% for time frame within 1-3 years... apart from that it also saves a lot of research and daily nonsense of watching market going up and down frequently. Crashed approx 3000 points day before.... imagine the shock 

Sent from my SM-N750 using Tapatalk


----------



## Dave-o (Aug 23, 2015)

I wouldn't claim I have the 'know-how' at all. I'm just a regular guy with a regular day job playing with small sums of money and I've only been doing it for about a year. Time spent playing xbox and watching TV in the evening can be better spent IMO.

It's daunting seeing the huge range of things you can put your money in but if you concentrate on the industries you work in or are interested in, something you know a little bit about and sift facts from opinions you'll do ok.


----------



## Gavtek (Aug 23, 2009)

There's nothing wrong with using financial advisors in principle, the problem is that the vast majority of the advisors in Dubai have no idea what they're talking about and are just interested in selling you "offshore" investment schemes for which they get a large commission and your money is gone for up to 20 years.

The first 2/3 year of payments you make to these schemes cover the agent commission and the investment company's fees effectively. 

This is a useful summary: Creveling & Creveling Private Wealth Advisory | Bangkok, Thailand - Five Things to Consider Before Buying Offshore Investment Schemes


----------



## jk_1337 (Oct 25, 2012)

that's a good read Gavtek, thanks for that.


----------



## Dave-o (Aug 23, 2015)

Indeed. 

Good to see how these things stack up. I never had any concrete evidence but I smelled a rat going by the sheer number of cold calls I get about these tax efficient, offshore investment opportunities.

If so many people are ringing up then it's not the one-off opportunity they make out. So, "Sir, do you want to hand over your life savings for me to put in a fund you've never heard of, managed by a company you've never heard of?"


----------



## Lovish (Jul 25, 2015)

It's a very good read Gavtek, and a very sound advise Dave appreciate it, but I already had a very horrible experience may be it was just fate... or a bad decision and a bad time that I ended up loosing a lot while I was investing on my own.. so I rely on expertise a bit more than usual in terms of stock market... at the same time it saves me from the horrors as well... and I can simply relax even at the times when market is turbulent.... but the times we live in single salary source is definitely not enough to live in peace... 

Sent from my SM-N750 using Tapatalk


----------



## jgw99 (May 26, 2014)

Lovish said:


> It's a very good read Gavtek, and a very sound advise Dave appreciate it, but I already had a very horrible experience may be it was just fate... or a bad decision and a bad time that I ended up loosing a lot while I was investing on my own.. so I rely on expertise a bit more than usual in terms of stock market... at the same time it saves me from the horrors as well... and I can simply relax even at the times when market is turbulent.... but the times we live in single salary source is definitely not enough to live in peace...
> 
> Sent from my SM-N750 using Tapatalk


I'm not sure if these products are available at exchanges where you intend to put some money to work but there are such things as index tracking securities. It holds a basket of equities/commodities/interest rate products/sectors etc. This allows you to spend less time researching about individual companies if a) you don't have the time and/or b) feel like you are unqualified to analyze properly. It won't give you the same alpha to the upside compared to individual company stock but it also reduces the gyrations (or so that's what old school investing tells you). Just look at the Chinese and US indices the past week. 

Of course investing assumes that you expect the market to be higher within your given timeframe. Since timing a "bottom" or a "top" is left to gamblers, the best approach is still cost averaging (for investing, not trading).

I think comes November, there will be a lot of markets that will be on "sale" with the assumption that global deflationary pressures abates. :fingerscrossed:


----------



## Wise man says.... (Jun 9, 2016)

Fletch1969 said:


> Sorry, this is going to be a bit of a rant..
> 
> There are a lot of people with zero experience in finance on commission only packages here who are in my opinion dubiously accurate in their advice. You could be forgiven for thinking that they sell you what is best for their commission and then drop you like a stone as soon as thats in and you have made it clear that you are not interested in upping your investment, (and hence making them more commission); though I really couldn't comment on that.
> 
> ...


The majority of contracts sold in UAE have tie in periods where agents and employers are paid there commission up front and if you have a 20 - 25 year plan it is impossible to make a profit until about ten years ! - Other problem is once signed for you are stuck with them or you will lose the first 18 months payments.....especially on the longer term plans. Think very carefully and look for companies that dont tie you in....


----------



## Reddiva (Feb 24, 2016)

I used to be stalked by them on a daily basis. At first I politely said no then they resorted to calling my work pretending to be clients. I now do two things depending upon my mood. Put my phone by the radio and turn it up really loud for 5 minutes or tell them I am in debt up to my eyeballs and may need to leave. Evil I know but thankfully this has done the trick and now no more calls


----------



## londonmandan (Jul 23, 2013)

Reddiva said:


> thankfully this has done the trick and now no more calls


Until the next new boy off the plane buys some data with your number on it :lol:


----------



## aakhan7 (Dec 12, 2014)

Announcement in the news media the latest addition to trades that require license to operate in UAE.

This link would help in answering to many queries if expats who wish to work from home for small business.


http://www.emirates247.com/news/8-n...under-commercial-licenses-2016-06-12-1.632711

Sent from my SM-J500F using Tapatalk


----------



## QOFE (Apr 28, 2013)

Here's something to read...

Drained financially and emotionally - by Dubai financial advisers | The National


----------

