# Which Visa do I need?



## VinceW (Sep 8, 2010)

Hi, My girlfiriend and I have been living together for about 8 years. We currently live in the UK and she has indefinite leave to remain. We have visited SA for about 3 weeks every year so I hope she still has SA citizenship. She still has her SA passport but this runs out next year. I am a UK citizen and have a UK passport.

We are seriously considering moving to SA but I can not see how I will get a residency visa. I can not see a partners visa like she obtained when she was in the UK. I work in telecommunications but do not think I will qualify for scarse skills.

We are happy as we are so don't really want to get married. Is there a visa that will allow me to work and live in SA without gettting married. If so which one would I need to apply for? If it is necessary to get married which Visa do I need to apply for and will that let me work and live in SA indefinately?

Thanks Vince


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## Saartjie (Mar 1, 2010)

VinceW said:


> Hi, My girlfiriend and I have been living together for about 8 years. We currently live in the UK and she has indefinite leave to remain. We have visited SA for about 3 weeks every year so I hope she still has SA citizenship. She still has her SA passport but this runs out next year. I am a UK citizen and have a UK passport.
> 
> We are seriously considering moving to SA but I can not see how I will get a residency visa. I can not see a partners visa like she obtained when she was in the UK. I work in telecommunications but do not think I will qualify for scarse skills.
> 
> ...


Hi Vince,

You do not need to get married to get residency in SA. For a Temporary Residency permit you can apply for the Life Partner version, this can also be endorsed for work. There are others on this forum who has applied for this who should be able to provide you with exactly what you will need to evidence your relationship. You can also apply for Permanent Residency as all you need to evidence is that you have been in a 'spousal relationship' for 5 years or more (this does not mean that you have had to be married for 5 years but that you have lived together as man and wife would do for that time). As Permanent Residency applications currently takes up to two years to be processed my advise would be that you apply for your Temporary Residency and your Permanent Residency at the same time as the TR should come through much quicker than that.

Hope the above helps.

Saartjie


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## LegalMan (Dec 26, 2012)

Hi Vince

Saartjie is correct, what she refers to is a type of Relative's Permit called the Life Partner Permit (it is for both homosexual and heterosexual applicants). You will need to prove cohabitation and shared financial responsibility, as well as a few other more easily obtainable things.

As a life partner of a South African citizen or permanent resident the normal stringent requirements of a work permit or a business permit are waived when applying for the work or business authorisation/endorsement.


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## 2fargone (Jun 14, 2011)

VinceW said:


> Hi, My girlfiriend and I have been living together for about 8 years. We currently live in the UK and she has indefinite leave to remain. We have visited SA for about 3 weeks every year so I hope she still has SA citizenship. She still has her SA passport but this runs out next year. I am a UK citizen and have a UK passport.
> 
> We are seriously considering moving to SA but I can not see how I will get a residency visa. I can not see a partners visa like she obtained when she was in the UK. I work in telecommunications but do not think I will qualify for scarse skills.
> 
> ...


Hi Vince I got the Life Partner Visa I applied in the USA it took about 3 weeks. But I suspect it took that long because it was around the holidays.
-Application Forms 
Bi1738 (Application for temp residence)
Bi806 (Radiology Report) (TB or X-ray)
Affidavit by life partner
Medical Report 
<The above 4 forms can be found on the South African Embassy Website> 

In addition to the 4 forms you will need:
Passport 
2 Passport size photos 
Police clearance 
Flight to S.A. copy of this
South African had to provide a letter they are employed by a company 
South African had to provide a copy of their ID book 
South African has to state how long they have known you in writing 
South African has to provide a letter they will support you in S.A.

The US Embassy wanted 3 people that we both knew to write letters saying how long we had been in a relationship (I am guessing to prove it was a real relationship.)

I think different things are required depending on where you apply for the visa, but I would rather have more information then not enough. If you have any other questions feel free to ask.


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## LegalMan (Dec 26, 2012)

Hi 2fargone

I presume you mean the SA Embassy in New York? Out of interest, how long did you permit take to complete, and roughly when did you submit and receive it?


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## 2fargone (Jun 14, 2011)

LegalMan said:


> Hi 2fargone
> 
> I presume you mean the SA Embassy in New York? Out of interest, how long did you permit take to complete, and roughly when did you submit and receive it?


I went to the South African Embassy in Washington, D.C. the Consulate is in N.Y.C.

My permit took 3 weeks, but as I stated in my previous post I think that is because it was during the holidays. I don't remember when I dropped it off. ( I drove to D.C. and they mailed my Passport and Visa back to me.)


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## VinceW (Sep 8, 2010)

OK, looking at form BI 1738 I have to advise which type of Temporary Residence Permit I require. I can not see a section for Life Parner or Spouse only relative. The form is on a link from the UK South African High Commission site

http://southafricahouseuk.com/documents/bi-1738_trpform.pdf

Reading further down the form the only section that appears to mention Spouse is Part O In respect of a relatives permit. I imagine this is why so many people have been issued relatives permits and not spouse permits reading information on other posts in this forum.

We will not be moving to SA for for at least 6 months, maybe longer. How long does a Temporary permit last for? Does a Permanent Residence Permit have to be renewed or is this indefinate?

Thanks Vince


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## 2fargone (Jun 14, 2011)

Yes from what I gather people who applied outside of S.A. were issued the Relatives permit and people who applied inside S.A. were issued the Life Partner. (That is what I was told unless I was told wrong.)

It's good for 2 years. 

I am not sure honestly how many times you can renew it. Someone else might have a better idea. I am thinking that as long as you are still in a relationship you can apply and submit your papers again and renew it every 2 years. But then you could apply for PR after you have been together for 5 years. So you wouldn't have TR but you would have PR.


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## VinceW (Sep 8, 2010)

Do you need specific forms for medical, radiological and police report? I cannot find them. The Temporary Resident Permit web page states there is a link to them from the Temporary Resident Permit download form. I have searched this form and cannot find them. Is there a problem with the web site?


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## 2fargone (Jun 14, 2011)

VinceW said:


> Do you need specific forms for medical, radiological and police report? I cannot find them. The Temporary Resident Permit web page states there is a link to them from the Temporary Resident Permit download form. I have searched this form and cannot find them. Is there a problem with the web site?


Hi Vince you do need a specific form for medical and radiological. I can send you a Private Message with my e-mail and you can e-mail back your address. I'll send you the correct forms. 

For the police report I was coming from the USA and I did FBI Clearance so I sent in that from the FBI. There is not a specific form required.


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## lavidarachel (Dec 26, 2012)

Hi,


We've just had medicals and radiology reports done, and police check. I thought it would be like a CRB, but it wasn't - it's issued by ACPO. I'm not sure if we've still got the form, but I can have a look if you need it, just let me know.

Rachel

Sent from my iPhone using ExpatForum


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## VinceW (Sep 8, 2010)

Hi Rachel, had some forms e-mailed to me, thanks for the offer. The UK web site mentions you need to have the checks done but does not provide links to the forms or state whether or not you need to use specific forms. The details provided are not very clear to say the least! Thanks Vince


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## lavidarachel (Dec 26, 2012)

VinceW said:


> Hi Rachel, had some forms e-mailed to me, thanks for the offer. The UK web site mentions you need to have the checks done but does not provide links to the forms or state whether or not you need to use specific forms. The details provided are not very clear to say the least! Thanks Vince


Glad you are sorted. Don't know what we'd do if his new company wasn't sorting everything!

Sent from my iPhone using ExpatForum


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## LegalMan (Dec 26, 2012)

*Please note: A Spousal Permit is a type of Relative's Permit. A Life Partner Permit is a type of Relative's Permit. So regardless, you will get a Relative's Permit!*

Let me write it more formally:
What is a Relatives Permit?
A temporary residence Relatives permit can be applied for by a family member of a South African citizen or permanent resident if they fall within the 1st or 2nd line of kinship. This includes spouses, life partners, parents, children and siblings.

So please, let's try to educate everyone now about this. I see it on every forum 100 times. It shows two things: (1) People don't understand the Immigration Act and should use immigration lawyers, and (2) Home Affairs should also make their forms easier to understand.

But let me not make this a rant.


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## concord (Jan 9, 2012)

I'll be honest because I'm one of the dummies who don't understand the Immigration act. Ok, I get that LPP and spousal permits are types of a relative's permit.
I have a relative's permit in my passport. It's regulated by the section 18 of the above-mentioned Immigration act which clearly states that I am not allowed to work. If I want to work I have to get a work endorsement.
Here I have a question to *Saartjie* (because you legally work) and *LegalMan* (because you're a very knowledgable person). If I apply and get a work endorsement which sticker will I have in my passport. Will it still be a relative's permit (section 18) plus a work endorsement? Or something else?


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## Saartjie (Mar 1, 2010)

concord said:


> I'll be honest because I'm one of the dummies who don't understand the Immigration act. Ok, I get that LPP and spousal permits are types of a relative's permit.
> I have a relative's permit in my passport. It's regulated by the section 18 of the above-mentioned Immigration act which clearly states that I am not allowed to work. If I want to work I have to get a work endorsement.
> Here I have a question to *Saartjie* (because you legally work) and *LegalMan* (because you're a very knowledgable person). If I apply and get a work endorsement which sticker will I have in my passport. Will it still be a relative's permit (section 18) plus a work endorsement? Or something else?


My Relatives Permit that I initially had was governed by s18 which did not entitle me to work. My new permit states: *Visitors (s11.6) Permit *and the condition at the bottom states: *To reside with SA Spouse ID No.... and to take up employment within the field of Management/Legal/Finance/Realestate*.


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## VinceW (Sep 8, 2010)

If I apply for permenant residency, and it gets granted, is this indefinate or does it have to renewed every so often?

I have worked in telecommunicatons and electrical installation. I have worked in the field and call centres/customer service desks. If I apply for permenant residency as a life partner as I have been with my partner for 8 years will I automatically get a work permit? Can it be open as to which of my trades I could work in?

I have no real ties in the UK now, My girlfriend/Partner is a SA national and all her family are in SA. At present I am dealing with my late mothers estate and working out the finances if we can afford to move to SA. It is a lot more complicated than I thought it would be! Is it possible to apply for permanent residency now and say move in 2 years time or is there a time limit? So if you are not resident in SA you lose the permenant residency?

Thanks Vince


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## Saartjie (Mar 1, 2010)

VinceW said:


> If I apply for permenant residency, and it gets granted, is this indefinate or does it have to renewed every so often?
> 
> I have worked in telecommunicatons and electrical installation. I have worked in the field and call centres/customer service desks. If I apply for permenant residency as a life partner as I have been with my partner for 8 years will I automatically get a work permit? Can it be open as to which of my trades I could work in?
> 
> ...


I will try to answer your questions and I am sure Legal Man can fill in any blanks.

The life span of a Permanent Residence Permit depends upon on which ground it is granted. For example, if you apply as a Spouse/Life Partner the permit is valid as long as you stay in that relationship. If you divorce/separate permanently then the permit is no longer valid otherwise I guess you could say that it is indefinite. If for example your PR is granted on the basis of being a parent of a SA citizen (like me) then the permit is valid until my child turns 21 when it will expire (I guess if I am still here in 19 years when it would expire I would have applied for citizenship so can stay anyway)

A PR (as far as I know) automatically entitles you to work and it is not job specific so you do not have to stipulate your field of work etc you can work wherever you want in whatever field you chose. Onceyou have it you do not have to make any further applications.

Legal Man can probably answer the question about applying for PR now and move later but please bare in mind that as an application for PR can at the moment take up to two years, you would be wise in any even to apply now if you are planning to move in two years time because it may take that long for it to come through.

Hope the above helps.


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## LegalMan (Dec 26, 2012)

2FarGone wrote:


> Yes from what I gather people who applied outside of S.A. were issued the Relatives permit and people who applied inside S.A. were issued the Life Partner. (That is what I was told unless I was told wrong.)
> 
> It's good for 2 years.
> 
> I am not sure honestly how many times you can renew it. Someone else might have a better idea. I am thinking that as long as you are still in a relationship you can apply and submit your papers again and renew it every 2 years. But then you could apply for PR after you have been together for 5 years. So you wouldn't have TR but you would have PR.


You can apply for any legal permit at any SA Embassy. They are usually valid for 2 years, but not always. You can renew it, yes.

VinceW wrote:


> OK, looking at form BI 1738 I have to advise which type of Temporary Residence Permit I require. I can not see a section for Life Parner or Spouse only relative. The form is on a link from the UK South African High Commission site


The Spousal and Life Partner "Permits" are both types of Relative's Permits.


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## concord (Jan 9, 2012)

Saartjie said:


> My Relatives Permit that I initially had was governed by s18 which did not entitle me to work. My new permit states: *Visitors (s11.6) Permit *and the condition at the bottom states: *To reside with SA Spouse ID No.... and to take up employment within the field of Management/Legal/Finance/Realestate*.


 Saartjie, thank very very much for making it finally clear to me!!! Now I see how it really works.

But I want to say why all these people including me got so confused. Like you mentioned your permit is called "a visitor's permit" (not a spousal permit) and is regulated by s11(6) of the Act. So it's a completely different permit and I guess you have to submit a new application to get it in exchange.

Now think of the websites of many immigration agencies which help you with paperwork. I can't say about all of them but most tell you that if you want to work you need to get your relative's/spousal permit endorsed. So here's the ground for that big confusion. Reading that someone would imagine that she/he can work after receiving a work endorsement for already existing s18 permit. I remember even you in your earlier post used to call s11(6) permit a spousal permit. But now we'll know that it's not true.

Thank you very much again!:clap2:


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## LegalMan (Dec 26, 2012)

concord said:


> I'll be honest because I'm one of the dummies who don't understand the Immigration act. Ok, I get that LPP and spousal permits are types of a relative's permit.
> I have a relative's permit in my passport. It's regulated by the section 18 of the above-mentioned Immigration act which clearly states that I am not allowed to work. If I want to work I have to get a work endorsement.
> Here I have a question to *Saartjie* (because you legally work) and *LegalMan* (because you're a very knowledgable person). If I apply and get a work endorsement which sticker will I have in my passport. Will it still be a relative's permit (section 18) plus a work endorsement? Or something else?


@Concord:
Privet - vi tochno iz Rossii?


> Will it still be a relative's permit (section 18) plus a work endorsement?


Yes, exactly that. The endorsement is not a separate permit.


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## LegalMan (Dec 26, 2012)

*Permanent Residence*



VinceW said:


> If I apply for permenant residency, and it gets granted, is this indefinate or does it have to renewed every so often?
> 
> I have worked in telecommunicatons and electrical installation. I have worked in the field and call centres/customer service desks. If I apply for permenant residency as a life partner as I have been with my partner for 8 years will I automatically get a work permit? Can it be open as to which of my trades I could work in?
> 
> ...


You never have to renew Permanent Residence, unless you lose it. It never expires, but you can lose it. There are numerous ways, like being out of the country for a full 3 years, etc. As I have stated elsewhere, it will be very suspicious (although not illegal at all) if you enter for the first time a whole two years after getting your permanent residency. If I were you, I'd enter SA (go on a holiday to visit the family!) soon after getting the PR. Then just don't stay away for longer than two years.

PS: On a personal note - it really shouldn't take 2 years to sort things out.


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## concord (Jan 9, 2012)

LegalMan said:


> @Concord:
> Privet - vi tochno iz Rossii?
> 
> Yes, exactly that. The endorsement is not a separate permit.


LegalMan, in my previous post I said that it was clear to me but now I'm confused again. 

Saartjie just mentioned that she has a s11(6) Visitor's permit in her passport and you say that it a s18 relative's permit plus a work endorsement. What is correct.

P.S. Ya ne iz Rossii, a iz Belarusi


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## LegalMan (Dec 26, 2012)

Privet Concord and Hi Saartjie

Ok, let's get this confusion sorted out. Sorry, I caused it with my poorly worded answer.

So, let's say you obtain a South African *Relative's* Permit (Section 18 of the Immigration Act), of which the type is a Life Partner Permit. Then you want to work. You don't want a new type of Work Permit, so you need a work endorsement. Or you want to open a business with a business endorsement.

But Section 18 doesn't allow endorsements! What do you do? No, actually, what is Home Affairs *supposed* to do?

They are supposed to change you to an Accompanying Life Partner *Visitor's* Permit with the endorsement, since Section 11.6 allows for endorsements. Usually these have a duration of 2-3 years.

I've seen Home Affairs do it wrong so often and give an (actually not valid or legal) Relative's Permit with an endorsement. Heaven only knows what happens to these people later...


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## concord (Jan 9, 2012)

LegalMan said:


> Ok, let's get this confusion sorted out. Sorry, I caused it with my poorly worded answer.
> 
> So, let's say you obtain a South African *Relative's* Permit (Section 18 of the Immigration Act), of which the type is a Life Partner Permit. Then you want to work. You don't want a new type of Work Permit, so you need a work endorsement. Or you want to open a business with a business endorsement.
> 
> ...


 I completely understand everything now after spending over a year in the country and exploring web sites and forums 

I think it would be great to have a thread right at the top of the forum where we could list all kind of existing permits so people could see it straight away.


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## LegalMan (Dec 26, 2012)

*Immigration to South Africa guide*



concord said:


> I completely understand everything now after spending over a year in the country and exploring web sites and forums
> 
> I think it would be great to have a thread right at the top of the forum where we could list all kind of existing permits so people could see it straight away.


I would gladly spend time doing this, however would really appreciate some sort of link so that if someone did need further assistance, they could contact me. I'll gladly give away free answers to questions, but to give away a whole batch of information that clients usually pay for requires some give and take...

There is also one concern - I find that even when people read the whole Immigration Act, follow forums, speak to Home Affairs and sometimes even speak to immigration practitioners, that they still don't know the right information.

So we can post something if the site allows us, but it will carry a disclaimer.

Saartjie - where to from here?


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## Saartjie (Mar 1, 2010)

LegalMan said:


> I would gladly spend time doing this, however would really appreciate some sort of link so that if someone did need further assistance, they could contact me. I'll gladly give away free answers to questions, but to give away a whole batch of information that clients usually pay for requires some give and take...
> 
> There is also one concern - I find that even when people read the whole Immigration Act, follow forums, speak to Home Affairs and sometimes even speak to immigration practitioners, that they still don't know the right information.
> 
> ...


I think it would be excellent if people had a resource where the information found is correct. As you said, after speaking to HA, immigration practitioners and other expats, the information tends to get muddled and people end up more confused then they were from the beginning. I totally do understand that you cannot give complete advise for free (I certainly do not). I am not sure how the forum works in this regard but as you've got a Premium Account I am sure you are allowed to provide some sort of link, perhaps Jo or any of the moderators can confirm. I think it would be an excellent idea for the expats here to have a direct link to an immigration lawyer who knows what they are talking about. It would certainly de-stress a lot of people as the most difficult thing in this immigration mess is to find someone who can tell you how it is and how the system works.


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## VinceW (Sep 8, 2010)

The UK SA High Commision web site has not got links to download all the forms needed for a Permanent residency/Temporary residency permit. I have downloaded the Medial check and Radiological check from the USA site.

Do I need a police vetiing certificate/form for emmigration from the UK to SA. I cannot see an official form? How do I obtain the vetting and the form if required. Thanks Vince


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## laiguk (Nov 25, 2012)

While you are busy sorting tnis out, get yourgirlfriend to naturalise in UK but make sure she gets a letter from SA High Commission for permission to hold dual citizenship because you may run to problems when she wants to return as they have clamped down on UK immigration.


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## VinceW (Sep 8, 2010)

Charlene's got permenant leave to remain in the UK already. She has now received notification that she has got UK citizenship, the only thing left to complete is her citizenship ceremony. We applied to the SA high commision to retain her SA citizenship before we applied for British citizenship. Thanks for the advice.


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