# Business Ideas, American



## BitcoinGuy (May 7, 2018)

I made this post on Reddit looking for advice and I'm wondering the same thing here:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Philippine...oving_to_philippines/?st=jikzfo68&sh=8893aa80


tl;dr: I have skills listed below and after posting this, I think I'm going to look at buying a few condos around BGC, preferably in the same building and running an "American Expat" Airbnb... thoughts on this based on what's below?


Post:

I'm 40, semi retired. I sold my computer tech company in December and, while I'm not crazy rich, I have enough to survive and live much more comfortably.

With my daughter off to college in August, I have no ties where I live now... no family to speak of, no business, no child and no girlfriend. As such, I am looking to move to the Philippines in November of this year. Well, I'm going over for six months to see if I can "make a go of it" as it were... i.e., find enough income to pay just my expenses (which I estimate at 100k pesos per month).

I'm looking to see if someone can answer the one question I have and if anyone knows a lead on work I could perform while I'm there so bear with me, this one might be a little long:

Question: I was told that, if I do not have an outbound ticket when I come through customs, I may have to buy one on the spot... I have an outbound ticket for March, four months after arrival but since that's not within the 30-days of visa-free travel, I did not know if it would "count"... will I need to buy an outbound ticket within 30 days too or will this suffice?

Skills:

I currently teach Bitcoin and Crypto currencies over here in the states and online <snip> we are changing it next week over to a direct hourly consulting site and selling all classes on Udemy instead). I've emailed 15 colleges in Manila to see if they would like to add a Bitcoin class to their lineup but only one even has replied so far.

Former business handled anything computer related: fixing and building computers, repairing them, cleaning viruses etc all the way up to network engineering, data security, encryption systems, etc... over the last few years I handled the higher end projects we got in to but I'm capable of handling everything from start the finish.

Skilled in running a moderately busy Airbnb group of listings so hospitality is something I could work in as well... more "buy a resort" but I know I can't own land and I don't plan on getting married any time soon so this is off the plate for a while. Unless someone wanted to partner, I'm open to that idea.

I thought about several possible business ideas... I'm a pretty decent network engineer so one thought that occurred to me was hourly-charged public wifi. I realize this would not work for the Filipino people themselves as they have cellular Internet but tourists don't and my cell phone (from Verizon at the time) could not get Internet more than a few minutes at a time. I would pay $0.25 an hour to get it from restaurants in tourist areas just to have it when I needed to upload something or talk to my kid.

I also thought I would do well in real estate helping expats move to the country. As an American, I understand their concerns more, my English is more conversational, I know how they lived back home, etc. I thought it might be a good way to cater to a particular crowd but can I even get hired by a company for this? Is there anyone who would even want me? I know there's a Visa requirement but I'm asking more in the: would a Filipino company consider me since I'm not Filipino?

Any other advice you could offer would be great. I'd love to get feedback. All I know right now is that I can't stay here and everyone I met in the Philippines were amazing... friendly, happy, just great. It's hard to find here the happiness you guys seem to wake up with over there. You're the people I want to spend my time with.


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## JRB__NW (Apr 8, 2015)

BitcoinGuy said:


> I made this post on Reddit looking for advice and I'm wondering the same thing here:
> 
> https://www.reddit.com/r/Philippine...oving_to_philippines/?st=jikzfo68&sh=8893aa80
> 
> ...


No problem on the return flight. I enter all the time on a 30 day tourist visa with a return flight scheduled 4-6 months later. The airline is usually the one who asks before they let you get on the plane, ie. at check-in. Rarely at Immigration. I always have the email with my flight info handy on my phone.

As to the other questions - really hard to run a business here but people do it. Other option is there are certainly local companies who will want a good tech, but they probably will not pay what you're used to. Best option would be to work here (or somewhere else in SE Asia) for a US company so the pay is commensurate.

The other thing I would mention is to make sure you have full experienced the country, the culture, and the weather before committing or making investments. The people are friendly, as you say, but things are not always as they appear on the surface, and being a developing country there are things that will wear on you over time.


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## Manitoba (Jun 25, 2014)

For the onward ticket, it is a toss-up how long in advance you can have the booking. There are always cheap throw away tickers on Air Asia to places like Macau or Hong Kong for less than $50 US. Have one all lined up on your phone and if hasslds just buy one on the spot. Expedia also often has tickets with a no fee 24 hour cancellation, just but one the airport and cancel it when you arrive in country.

You cannot work here without a work permit. You cannot get a work permit on a tourist visa.

If you get an SRRV you can get a work permit. At your age that means a $US50 k deposit plus annual fees. The deposit is a major issue but the lack of ongoing need to renew a tourist visa plus a few other benefits make yop for it especially if you convert the deposit into a condo ownership.

The Philippines is full of tech savvy people working for less than 30k p or about $US 600 a month so forget about working as a local, you would not make a go of it. It would be mostly a hobby activity. The business climate here is very complex and the requirements for all the permits is very unclear. You can ask two different government officials and get three sets of mutually exclusive regulations, permits and licenses needed to operate a business. Ask again tomorrow and bet another set of rules. 

Unless you can run something on line from here and provide service to people willing to pay a western fee schedule not much use trying anything local.

With an SRRV you are not taxed on income from off shore, unfortunately for you as an American the US will still tax you. 

Come for the 6 months, look around, travel and see if there is a place you want to settle. Don’t even think of working while here or you could be deported and not allowed back.


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## Tukaram (Dec 18, 2014)

I flew in with an exit ticket dated a year in advance. I used the same ticket twice: when I came back from a visit to the US, then again 8 months later, when we went to Honk Kong for a vacation. The date, outbound city, and destination do not matter... just an exit ticket.

Working is an iffy proposition. You need a work visa or like a spouse visa to work here. You can not work on a tourist visa. Also, there are a lot of jobs foreigners are not allowed to do. Most expats, I know, either run a restaurant/bar/hotel (in their wife's name) or make money online, so not a Philippine job. 

Honestly if I needed to work I would rather work for dollars, not pesos.


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## BitcoinGuy (May 7, 2018)

JRB__NW said:


> No problem on the return flight. I enter all the time on a 30 day tourist visa with a return flight scheduled 4-6 months later. The airline is usually the one who asks before they let you get on the plane, ie. at check-in. Rarely at Immigration. I always have the email with my flight info handy on my phone.
> 
> As to the other questions - really hard to run a business here but people do it. Other option is there are certainly local companies who will want a good tech, but they probably will not pay what you're used to. Best option would be to work here (or somewhere else in SE Asia) for a US company so the pay is commensurate.
> 
> The other thing I would mention is to make sure you have full experienced the country, the culture, and the weather before committing or making investments. The people are friendly, as you say, but things are not always as they appear on the surface, and being a developing country there are things that will wear on you over time.


I wish I had known about the flight... I was told it wouldn't work having a flight four months out... not a big deal, just bought a $53 ticket to Singapore that's two weeks after my arrival...

On the business: do you know if my tourist visa will allow me to run a business that I don't "make a business"? ie, with airbnb it's just me renting spaces out, no official documentation... I've checked the pay there and you're right: not really worth my time. I'm not looking for a regular 40 hour workweek.. just something to break even on the bills and keep my interest.

On the stay: you're right  I plan on being there 4-6 months initially to make sure it's right for me before I buy anything. Even if I think it's right for me, I will prob rent the first year before I commit to a condo. I'm a little worried about the failing peso... bad economic times usually means people are looking for a scapegoat.


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## BitcoinGuy (May 7, 2018)

Manitoba said:


> For the onward ticket, it is a toss-up how long in advance you can have the booking. There are always cheap throw away tickers on Air Asia to places like Macau or Hong Kong for less than $50 US. Have one all lined up on your phone and if hasslds just buy one on the spot. Expedia also often has tickets with a no fee 24 hour cancellation, just but one the airport and cancel it when you arrive in country.
> 
> You cannot work here without a work permit. You cannot get a work permit on a tourist visa.
> 
> ...


ok, so when you say "work" do you mean "even self employed"? like... could I run the Airbnb idea without a business registration and be ok or would I be in violation of my visa? The deposit is not a problem, especially since you're saying I could "deposit" it by buying a condo? I was wondering about that... I don't have to just "let it sit" in an account?

I knew I couldn't work without a work visa but if the SRRV will allow me to run a business, that's what I'll need to work towards... but I do plan on being there 4-6 months first before I commit to anything. Honestly, several other countries over there are on the list to try out... I thought PH, with its close proximity to everything in SE asia and its low cost of living would be a good "base" to run my travels out of next...


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## BitcoinGuy (May 7, 2018)

Tukaram said:


> I flew in with an exit ticket dated a year in advance. I used the same ticket twice: when I came back from a visit to the US, then again 8 months later, when we went to Honk Kong for a vacation. The date, outbound city, and destination do not matter... just an exit ticket.
> 
> Working is an iffy proposition. You need a work visa or like a spouse visa to work here. You can not work on a tourist visa. Also, there are a lot of jobs foreigners are not allowed to do. Most expats, I know, either run a restaurant/bar/hotel (in their wife's name) or make money online, so not a Philippine job.
> 
> Honestly if I needed to work I would rather work for dollars, not pesos.


yeah, the peso does not appear as though it has a good short term future... I've checked the charts and the tariffs Trump imposed shot it down another 3+% in one day after the announcement... I'm going to try and keep as much in USD as possible and slowly move it over only as I need it...

thoughts on a few airbnbs? I do NOT want to get married any time soon (contrary to every women I've met over there) so something I can run without having to "file" would be nice... but I don't want to get deported and not allowed back...


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## Manitoba (Jun 25, 2014)

BitcoinGuy said:


> ok, so when you say "work" do you mean "even self employed"? like... could I run the Airbnb idea without a business registration and be ok or would I be in violation of my visa? The deposit is not a problem, especially since you're saying I could "deposit" it by buying a condo? I was wondering about that... I don't have to just "let it sit" in an account?
> 
> I knew I couldn't work without a work visa but if the SRRV will allow me to run a business, that's what I'll need to work towards... but I do plan on being there 4-6 months first before I commit to anything. Honestly, several other countries over there are on the list to try out... I thought PH, with its close proximity to everything in SE asia and its low cost of living would be a good "base" to run my travels out of next...


I have heard that the majority of the deportations for working without a permit come from locals turning you in to the BI. Run an Airbnb and the locals will know it and can and will turn you in for any reason, an inadvertent insult can result in your using that ticket home earlier than you expect.

One thing about this place, it is almost impossible to get good information. Visit two branches of the same government department and talk to two people at each and you will get at least 4 different explanations of what is happening. No one will tell you that you also need to talk to three more different agencies to be compliant with all the rules either.

Is Airbnb operations "work" I would think so but others might not. Give an official an opportunity to take a hard line decision which will not get him into any trouble and perhaps provide an opportunity to collect some "fines" on the spot and it is not rocket science to guess what he will do.

I have stayed at Airbnb's with all the business licenses in place and others that are obviously someone renting out their place while they are OFW and letting "auntie" manage it. Let a local think you took some business away from them and watch out.

There are two threads where you are asking the same question. The general answer is that any sort of working here without a work permit is dangerous and grounds for deportation with the possibility of a blacklist While you will not have much chance of getting caught for stuff you do in private online, the risk still exists. Anything like the Airbnb idea is pretty public and your odds of getting caught increase.

On the other hand I met a guy who was running a used car lot but everything was in his gf's name. It was well known that he worked there more than her, made all the management decisions, etc. He never signed any sale contracts, just handed them to his gf or a salesman to sign once he OK'ed them and he was not deported. (Might be by now, never know lol)

I have done some favours for people back home. ( I am an engineer.) I have reviewed some reports for them, no money changing hands, just a favour for friends to review a document for readability and consistency by a fresh set of eyes. I don't tell anyone here about that because I don't have a work permit. I may be overcautious but I have not been deported either.

Personally it is not worth the risk to me to do anything ongoing or public without a work permit in place. You have to decide on your risk tolerance but the effort to get a work permit once you have an SRRV is not that much and well worth the security that comes with it.



Yes the deposit is convertible to your condo price. (or long term lease or country club memberships) There are some restrictions on how much foreign ownership and minimum value of the unit. My plan is to buy a condo in a couple years, I will pick a general area to settle and spend a while there to be sure before spending the money on a place. I have no idea the general resale of places but I do know that in Jazz Residences in Makati new units were about $US20k more than used units there which tells me that the resell is not too good. SM can afford to hang on to units while people having to sell out are taking a bath.

To me the SRRV is the best option but I have some Canadian tax concerns that are taken care of by having the SRRV. The deposit is not a big issue for me and eventually I will convert it into a condo purchase. I have already saved more in Canadian tax than the deposit so even if I don't get it back (or lose on condo resale) I am ahead of the game.


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## fmartin_gila (May 15, 2011)

Manitoba makes some very good points in his post and it comes down to each has to plan & play their own game depending on their own risk tolerance & circumstances.

Fred


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## hogrider (May 25, 2010)

I'm not sure what you mean by renting out AirBnB spaces. Do you mean buying condos and letting them out via AirBnB, or subletting. Buying condos is not a good idea, especially if you only plan to be there 4 to 6 months before committing to anything. Can't see any profit in subletting.


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## Tiz (Jan 23, 2016)

I live in a condo in BGC. My next door neighbour is an AirBnB unit.
Its probably occupied at max 4 nights per month.

On top of that, the condo management has just put in place restrictions on using your condo for short term lease.

Minimum stay is now 3 nights, so I'm guessing my next door will be permanently empty as in the past I've never known it to have anyone stay that long.

They have also implemented additional surcharges, deposits and fees for any short term rental.


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## BitcoinGuy (May 7, 2018)

Manitoba said:


> I have heard that the majority of the deportations for working without a permit come from locals turning you in to the BI. Run an Airbnb and the locals will know it and can and will turn you in for any reason, an inadvertent insult can result in your using that ticket home earlier than you expect.
> 
> One thing about this place, it is almost impossible to get good information. Visit two branches of the same government department and talk to two people at each and you will get at least 4 different explanations of what is happening. No one will tell you that you also need to talk to three more different agencies to be compliant with all the rules either.
> 
> ...


so basically it boils down to: if someone in PH is making money on it (gov official or your wife), the locals don't care... makes sense and pretty common for poorer countries. I've heard of a lot of the backstabbing you're talking about from multiple people...

so, shortish plan: don't work in PH, work on SRRV over the next year, decide where I want to stay/live and maybe airbnb once (and only once) I have my SRRV. all income will come from overseas during this time...


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## BitcoinGuy (May 7, 2018)

yeah, I'm hearing that too... I contacted several condo builders and they're all restricting short term stays... I'll just have to work online in the US or wherever. I was hoping to find something to keep me busy during the day but like most plans, this one will evolve over time as I get my feet on the ground over there.



Tiz said:


> I live in a condo in BGC. My next door neighbour is an AirBnB unit.
> Its probably occupied at max 4 nights per month.
> 
> On top of that, the condo management has just put in place restrictions on using your condo for short term lease.
> ...


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