# Fresh UK grad starting career in Dubai?



## recentgrad (Feb 4, 2012)

Hi guys, 

Just wanted some advice- going to graduate this summer and have the opportunity to start my career in Dubai at a well known international bank on their grad scheme. 

Was just wondering would it be easy for someone of my age (22) to settle in as a young professional and socialise/meet new people or is the crowd a lot older? 

also, those of you in then banking industry, is it wise to begin my career there when I also have the opportunity to work in the london office? 

any advice much appreciated thanks


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## Mr Rossi (May 16, 2009)

Easy to settle in, loads of young people here, however the London position would be 100 times more beneficial to your career.


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## Perfectionist (Feb 3, 2012)

which one pays u more?the amount difference?if it is not much then i think u'd better catch the london job


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## recentgrad (Feb 4, 2012)

Thanks guys- pay will be same as uk around 40k (pounds) per year but would I be right to expect some accommodation allowances etc even as a grad in their first year?

Is there anybody who has any idea of packages for UK grads straight out of Uni in dxb or any experience of working in Dubai so soon in their career?

Also those of you who answered any particular reason why London would be better? Is it harder to go back to London if I ever wanted down the line?

Also would I be tax exempt straight away or does that happen after a few years?

Sorry for all the questions it's just a massive decision so would be most grateful for any answers...


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## ArabianNights (Jul 23, 2011)

recentgrad said:


> Thanks guys- pay will be same as uk around 40k (pounds) per year but would I be right to expect some accommodation allowances etc even as a grad in their first year?


40K for a graduate student, on a graduate programme - are you having a laugh?


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## recentgrad (Feb 4, 2012)

Not having a laugh, not quite sure what you mean? That's standard starting pay in UK investment banks


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## Mr Rossi (May 16, 2009)

The skills and experience you gain here will pale in comparison to what you'll learn in London. If you're good there I imagine you'll be able to work anywhere in the world. If you come out here on a grad scheme the only thing you'll be fit for when you want to leave will be tied into the region.


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## ArabianNights (Jul 23, 2011)

recentgrad said:


> Not having a laugh, not quite sure what you mean? That's standard starting pay in UK investment banks


wow.... i am actually quite amazed... I just searched this into google, your right! Last time I checked graduate schemes, they were in the 15,000-25,000 mark 

I dont get it :confused2: what with all this stuff about recession and all....


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## recentgrad (Feb 4, 2012)

Haha can't complain! Anyone any idea about the earlier tax question?


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## Mr Rossi (May 16, 2009)

ArabianNights said:


> I dont get it :confused2: what with all this stuff about recession and all....


I hope the irony that investment banks had a large part to play in causing the recession isn't lost on you either.

To the OP, there is no income tax on your earnings at all.


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## recentgrad (Feb 4, 2012)

Is that even if you want to keep some kind of "connection" with the UK? Like for when I want to come back


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## ArabianNights (Jul 23, 2011)

Mr Rossi said:


> I hope the irony that investment banks had a large part to play in causing the recession isn't lost on you either.


Thats EXACTLY what I was thinking!


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## fcjb1970 (Apr 30, 2010)

recentgrad said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> is it wise to begin my career there when I also have the opportunity to work in the london office?
> 
> any advice much appreciated thanks


Quite honestly I cannot see why one fresh out of college (or uni as you call it over there) would choose here over a job in London, unless his long term goal really was to be located in MENA. Granted because of taxes you may be able to save some more money here if you put your mind to it. But career wise seems London offers more. Fun wise, sure there are things to do in Dubai, but compared to London with all your other fresh out of school mates, cannot see how it compares. At 22 have some kicks, you can start saving after 25 (or 27...)

I say that as someone who has never actually been to London, but my understanding is it has fun pubs everywhere and great live music to be had every night of the week, no comparison. Just my opinion and like they say opinions are like...


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## ashb (Nov 19, 2011)

Hi there,

Ur post caught my attention as I find myself in a similar situation to you. Just graduated from uni, im 22 also, and will be moving to Dubai from Australia in a couple of weeks, working for a multi nat. property development firm. Just negotiated and signed my contract, so I can clear a couple of things up straight off the bat.

Your income is tax free, even if ur employer pays u into an offshore bank account or one back in the U.K. Just get someone at ur bank to write the tax department a letter stating that u are a foreign resident of dubai after about 6 months of working there. 

Regarding ur salary, its spot on, same as mine. However that 40k pounds should be NETT salary after all ur allowances such as transport, accommodation, medical, furniture and relocation. Ur total salary should be around 55k pounds and 40k after allowances. 

The argument that ull be better of in London than Dubai doesnt really stack up in my mind. Iv talked to countless HR Execs and CEO's, they all say the same thing.
- Global business exposure is a valuable asset in ur CV
- Companies are often out of pocket more when they send people overseas, due to allowances etc, so they tend to extremely stringent when selecting candidates, which is good in ur CV also.
- declining UK economy isnt going to help u - means more competition willing to work for less
- Bonuses and salary increases in dubai are explicitly linked to performance and are generally larger and more frequent than in UK and AUS. no tax on these aswell. 
- Companies in Dubai are heavliy exposed to underdeveloped economies, especially africa and middle east, which is definately something u want to get ur hand in on

Also if u decide to keep ur money offshore or in U.K think about opening foreign currency accounts, as ull probably be getting paid in U.S $$. these accounts wont charge fees on conversions etc. 

I'm also interested to find out how people our age get on meeting ppl in Dubai. Maybe some of the dinosaurs in the forum can add some input.

Sorry for such a lengthy first post, but interesting to see theres others in the same boat


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## Mr Rossi (May 16, 2009)

fcjb1970 said:


> I say that as someone who has never actually been to London, but my understanding is it has fun pubs everywhere and great live music to be had every night of the week, no comparison.


It''s one of the greatist cities in the world for nightlife/things to do. Time Out London is the size of a telephone directory.


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## Mr Rossi (May 16, 2009)

ashb said:


> The argument that ull be better of in London than Dubai doesnt really stack up in my mind. Iv talked to countless HR Execs and CEO's, they all say the same thing.


To use an analogy - you've more chance making the Man United first 11 if you were to take an apprenticeship at Man U rather than start your career of at Port Vale.

I'm guessing how to cope with "Boss on holiday, he sign the cheque" and "Insh'Allah" is not an in demand skill set at Canary Wharf.


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## recentgrad (Feb 4, 2012)

ashb said:


> Hi there,
> 
> Ur post caught my attention as I find myself in a similar situation to you. Just graduated from uni, im 22 also, and will be moving to Dubai from Australia in a couple of weeks, working for a multi nat. property development firm. Just negotiated and signed my contract, so I can clear a couple of things up straight off the bat.
> 
> ...



Thanks for your post- great to see someone else in the same position, just had a few questions and comments:

Regarding tax: so do you still have to pay tax for the first 6 months you are there?

Also regarding your package, do you mean on top of your base salary you got extras worth 15k for all the things you mentioned? I am yet to receive full details on mine but when I do will obviously be a huge bearing on my decision..

And have to agree with your thinking, as having interned in both cities for international companies I have found Dubai is like working in london just with better weather- all the staff seemed to be from us/uk/aus/south africa...so I don't really see how training would be affected unless you worked for a local company there. Only thing I noticed there was less of a graduate network as there were only a few people straight out of Uni there but that could work in your favour in the office when it comes to promotions etc? 

I do understand mr Rossi point about becoming specialised to one region too soon as well though but you can't ignore the fact your standard of living will be similar to someone 5 years your senior back in the UK...

Also ashb just out of interest how long you looking to stay in dubai, and did you go through a recruitment company there to land the job or in aus? Cheers


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## ashb (Nov 19, 2011)

recentgrad said:


> Thanks for your post- great to see someone else in the same position, just had a few questions and comments:
> 
> Regarding tax: so do you still have to pay tax for the first 6 months you are there?
> 
> ...



Hey,
No u dont pay tax at any point of ur employment in Dubai. In Aus (may be different in UK) u have to live in Dubai for a minimum of 6 months to be officially considered a resident of that country, by Aus standards. However this mainly applies to contractors and consultants so not really an issue for us. I just told my bank to notify the tax agency after this 6 month period to avoid issues and to make my residency in Dubai official.

regarding salary - yes u should get 13-15k pounds on top of ur salary. Once u receive ur letter of offer u want to agree on a base salary pretty much straight away, then negotiate as much allowances on top of that as u can. If u try to negotiate ur salary up they will usually reduce ur allowances and u dont want that. Do ur homework and make sure EVERYTHING is included in the contract, even utillities, phone, fuel etc. 

It is extremely hard to get a job in dubai as a fresh graduate. Employers tend to turn away graduates because there is an abundance of experience professionals over there already that compete directly with graduates for the same jobs. So if u get an offer from ur company to relocate thats fantastic, ur one of the lucky ones, competition for graduates to secure jobs over there atm is mental.
I got my job through a contact of mine whos been over for awhile now.

regarding how long ill be there for - well im most likely going to relocate permanently. Its my understanding that the maximum term of a contract is 2 or 3 years, which at the end of the term it automatically rolls over for another 2-3 years unless advised otherwise by ur employer. 
And yer standard of living is meant to be very high at a fraction of the cost in comparison.

Hope that helped a bit.
Cheers


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## recentgrad (Feb 4, 2012)

Wow didn't realise packages went beyond housing allowances, especially for graduates- did you just specify you wanted xyz in the contract too and they obliged? U must be a good negotiator!


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## ArabianNights (Jul 23, 2011)

Bloody 'ell, I still cannot believe it.... 40k for a graduate student who probably has no experience.... :faint:


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## Pink Fairie (Sep 9, 2011)

u .... ur .... atm .... yer

[/QUOTE]

For a start, its you not u; your not ur; at the moment not atm and again your not yer!! 

Surely someone who is about to earn circa 55k really shouldn't be this illiterate?? Not being funny but learn to type words in full!!


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## Mr Rossi (May 16, 2009)

recentgrad said:


> but you can't ignore the fact your standard of living will be similar to someone 5 years your senior back in the UK...


How do you work that one out?


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## recentgrad (Feb 4, 2012)

Well if you are 22 and earning 40k tax free you are effectively earning around 60k by UK standards...on top of this you have free accommodation and other extra allowances...now I'm pretty sure the average 27 year old in the UK does not enjoy this?


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## Mr Rossi (May 16, 2009)

recentgrad said:


> Well if you are 22 and earning 40k tax free you are effectively earning around 60k by UK standards...on top of this you have free accommodation and other extra allowances...now I'm pretty sure the average 27 year old in the UK does not enjoy this?


Fair enough. At 22 and just at the beginning your career I still think you'd be a complete fool to take here over London, especially in finance/banking. I'm sure you'll still earn more than most people do in life though, but you'll hit a glass ceiling of agas and boob jobs for a leathery skinned wife rather than a truly, despised 1% er.


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## ashb (Nov 19, 2011)

recentgrad said:


> Wow didn't realise packages went beyond housing allowances, especially for graduates- did you just specify you wanted xyz in the contract too and they obliged? U must be a good negotiator!


Well you will definitely have to look closely at what they are offering you exactly. I say the cost of living is low in comparison, however that is subject to 40k being your nett salary, not inclusive of allowances etc. If the offer is 40k all inclusive you may find your standard of living to be quite low to be honest. for e.g:

- housing = 12k p.a
- transport = 4k p.a
- relocation allowance (includes flight, temporary accommodation etc.) = 4.5k one off payment
- utilities = 2k p.a

The list goes on. So as you can see you really wont be left with much after that. However, all of these things should be taken care of by the company on top of your base pay. Of the 10-15 contracts I'v read from different people in the same situation, I'm yet to see one that doesn't include these allowance on top of salary, the majority of these were also from the finance sector.

Generally, in your letter of offer they will include the basics like housing and transport, which are normally non-negotiable. What you do need to ask for are the smaller things such as utilities, medical, phone and relocation allowance. The small things tend to add up to be quite significant amounts of money and will have a bearing as to how well you live over there. 

I mean you can speculate all day about what may or may not be included, so I suggest you ask for a letter of offer initially and go from there. Just be careful not to sign your letter prematurely, because when you agree on the terms of the offer they build your contract around those terms and from that point forward you don't really have the power to negotiate or amend the contract itself. 

When you receive your offer hit me up and I'll do my best to help you out.

cheers


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## 151261 (Jan 11, 2012)

I'm 22 as well and just about to move to Dubai to start a job within an architect firm today. I'm a graduate but really don't know if this is worth my time. I've been applying for jobs in the UK for over 6 months and no luck but have managed to secure a contract with this firm. I start on the 19th and my flight is at 13:25 today. I told myself that I'll give myself three months out there and if I don't like it then I'll come home. I'm just afraid of not making friends out there. So get in contact if you do decide to move there.


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## recentgrad (Feb 4, 2012)

ashb said:


> Well you will definitely have to look closely at what they are offering you exactly. I say the cost of living is low in comparison, however that is subject to 40k being your nett salary, not inclusive of allowances etc. If the offer is 40k all inclusive you may find your standard of living to be quite low to be honest. for e.g:
> 
> - housing = 12k p.a
> - transport = 4k p.a
> ...


thanks mate really appreciate the advice

do you think it would be wise to ask them to put children's education in the contract from now? obv dont have kids or anything now but if i'm looking to go permanently would it be a wise move to get them to agree to this if it happened later on down the line, even within next 5-7 years? and do you think/have u heard of this clause being put in without actually having kids at the time of signing i.e preemptively?


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## ashb (Nov 19, 2011)

recentgrad said:


> thanks mate really appreciate the advice
> 
> do you think it would be wise to ask them to put children's education in the contract from now? obv dont have kids or anything now but if i'm looking to go permanently would it be a wise move to get them to agree to this if it happened later on down the line, even within next 5-7 years? and do you think/have u heard of this clause being put in without actually having kids at the time of signing i.e preemptively?


No worries. 

Unless you have a child or expecting one soon, I highly doubt you will get child allowance. The contracts are for 2-3 year periods, so if your planning to stay long term you may be able to negotiate with HR after your initial contract is up or when you start planning to have kids. They only compensate you for immediate out of pocket expenses, not future expenses. Even medical and things of that nature are only paid when you need them, not as monthly allowances. Even if you did manage to get child allowance they would withhold the money from you until you have a kid, so either way it wont make any difference.

Another point - In your letter of offer it may state that you get a one off payment for either furniture allowance or child allowance, which is really your relocation allowance to help you get by for the first month. Don't know why they cannot just call it relocation allowance but have been told that it is easier for the company to justify furniture or child payment, rather than 'relocation' which apparently is a bit too vague. 

cheers


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## recentgrad (Feb 4, 2012)

Ashb- was just wondering have you now completed your move to Dubai? How are you settling in workwise and socially? Would be good to hear of your experiences so far


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