# Compelling reason to trade to France from UK?



## manuka

We want to travel from UK as an EU couple to view a property in France with view to buying it. We have a limited company in Uk and will want to transfer the business to France- so run a business from the property in France that we buy. Does that come under the permission to come to France we wonder? To avoid being turned away at arrival in France, is there an address we can write an email to for clarification/permission, as we are not sure from the business criteria given. Hopefully the situation will be eased soon, but we want to get on a plane asap as do not want to lose the property.


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## manuka

We were thinking of this criteria: Missions necessary for the pursuit of an economic activity requiring presence on site (which cannot be postponed).
Document required: proof from employer. - this would be written by one of the ltd company directors- eg one of us.


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## BackinFrance

manuka said:


> We were thinking of this criteria: Missions necessary for the pursuit of an economic activity requiring presence on site (which cannot be postponed).
> Document required: proof from employer. - this would be written by one of the ltd company directors- eg one of us.


Yes, I thought that you meant compelling reasons relating to business. 

Unfortunately I cannot give you a definitive answer, although I personally would think it fits.


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## Bevdeforges

France is one of those countries where it doesn't really do much good to get an "advance" opinion from one official, since the officials in place at the time have "discretion." (Trust me on this one, it was the source of my immigration woes when I first came to France.) 

Unless you are already resident in France, I suspect that "visiting" to view a property you "might" buy to transfer your UK based business to is something of a long shot. However, if you are planning on flying to France, you may just want to give it a try. It is very rare that someone flying to France will be turned down for entry at arrival. If the airline allows you to board the flight, you'll be allowed to enter France. Check with your airline and see what they think. (They are very likely to be overcautious, if anything, given that it's their responsibility to take you back home if they let you on the flight "in error.")


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## Crabtree

The problem is that you are writing your own letter I think what they would be looking at would be a letter from a French company


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## BackinFrance

Crabtree said:


> The problem is that you are writing your own letter I think what they would be looking at would be a letter from a French company


I don't really agree with that because it seems to me that France is happy to have foreign companies set up business here.


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## Bevdeforges

BackinFrance said:


> I don't really agree with that because it seems to me that France is happy to have foreign companies set up business here.


Depends on what the business is, how many employees they have (or are likely to have), etc, etc.


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## manuka

Bevdeforges said:


> France is one of those countries where it doesn't really do much good to get an "advance" opinion from one official, since the officials in place at the time have "discretion." (Trust me on this one, it was the source of my immigration woes when I first came to France.)
> 
> Unless you are already resident in France, I suspect that "visiting" to view a property you "might" buy to transfer your UK based business to is something of a long shot. However, if you are planning on flying to France, you may just want to give it a try. It is very rare that someone flying to France will be turned down for entry at arrival. If the airline allows you to board the flight, you'll be allowed to enter France. Check with your airline and see what they think. (They are very likely to be overcautious, if anything, given that it's their responsibility to take you back home if they let you on the flight "in error.")


Thank you Bev.


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## BackinFrance

Bevdeforges said:


> Depends on what the business is, how many employees they have (or are likely to have), etc, etc.


Can also be for example moving an entire business, even if it does not currently or may not employ people, especially if there may be some flow on benefit to France (though of course employment is the big one). But I do agree with you that the best way for the OP is to check with the airline).


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## manuka

BackinFrance said:


> Can also be for example moving an entire business, even if it does not currently or may not employ people, especially if there may be some flow on benefit to France (though of course employment is the big one). But I do agree with you that the best way for the OP is to check with the airline).


Thank you; good thinking,


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## BackinFrance

Perhaps Crabtree meant the French company selling the property (if it is owned by a company). 

You might be wise to include details of your business, that could perhaps include where your customers are and how you will keep them as customers. A declaration about where the negotiation on the property stand. But it really is not possible to know what they will want, whereas it is the airline that will check them and therefore hopefully be able to advise you. Just be prepared to explain precisely what the reason for the visit is. 

I am of course assuming you are talking about an established and profitable small business.


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## 255

@manuka -- France does not have any restriction on "foreigners" owning property, whether real estate or a company. Why not come to France on a Schengen visa and both "house hunt" and meet with an attorney to form an SAS (no resident directors needed.) You can then both move to France and transfer your business to your new French company, from your UK Ltd. company, file/pay taxes, social charges etc. and go on your merry way. I'm sure your attorney can get you on the right track. Cheers, 255


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## manuka

255 said:


> @manuka -- France does not have any restriction on "foreigners" owning property, whether real estate or a company. Why not come to France on a Schengen visa and both "house hunt" and meet with an attorney to form an SAS (no resident directors needed.) You can then both move to France and transfer your business to your new French company, from your UK Ltd. company, file/pay taxes, social charges etc. and go on your merry way. I'm sure your attorney can get you on the right track. Cheers, 255


Thanks; But my husband is an EU citizen, so we have a right to settle and move freely if it was not for current restrictions: we need to look at the property we want to buy.


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## BackinFrance

I believe it is the compelling reason to travel that is the issue, not a visa. I could be mistaken. There seems to be some urgency.

Sorry, post crossed with OP's.


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## manuka

Looking at airlines to Limoges, it seems to be only Ryan air...urg...maybe they will be helpful! I will give an email a shot to them!


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## BackinFrance

If you have never seen the property and are not in negotiation, you may have a problem.


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## manuka

BackinFrance said:


> If you have never seen the property and are not in negotiation, you may have a problem.


Yes well we have to start somewhere- due to covid no travel to view has been possible.


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## BackinFrance

I suspect you are taking the risk anyway that an offer may have been accepted before you get there. If you are prepared to risk that, then you would I think be prepared to turn up at the airport or in France and be turned away in which case you should maybe gather copies of as much supporting documentation as you can for each of you., including a business plan. You may be lucky. Right now the info on the government website states that even French citizens whose principal residence is not in France and do not meet some restricted requirements cannot travel from the UK.


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## manuka

BackinFrance said:


> I suspect you are taking the risk anyway that an offer may have been accepted before you get there. If you are prepared to risk that, then you would I think be prepared to turn up at the airport or in France and be turned away in which case you should maybe gather copies of as much supporting documentation as you can for each of you., including a business plan. You may be lucky. Right now the info on the government website states that even French citizens whose principal residence is not in France and do not meet some restricted requirements cannot travel from the UK.


Thanks.BIF. So by the time we have decide this rules may have been adjusted favourably ( hopefully)
So we may just go ahead. I have written to Ryan air and in a few days they promise a response. Be interesting to see. It will be even more interesting if the rules are slackened and we get there before anyone else.

The last time we went to France to view in 2019, by the time we arranged a schedule with the agents and got there nothing on our list was available.

So yes that is the reason for not wanting to wait now. If we can get there in these stringent times, and make an offer- There are two properties that match what we need and have right price for us.,

Sometimes I feel like making an offer without a viewing...- has anyone ever done that?


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## Clic Clac

Restrictions on entry from the 'UK' are set to be lifted 'very soon'.


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## manuka

Clic Clac said:


> Restrictions on entry from the 'UK' are set to be lifted 'very soon'.


Hopefully!


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## manuka

Received reply immediately from Ryan Air:

"Regarding your query please be advised that if the flight is still operational, there is no possibility of refund/voucher or free move. 


All the restrictions/quarantines are enforced by local governments, Ryanair is committed to follow government guidelines, however, it is the responsibility of each passenger to make sure they are allowed to enter the country and have the necessary documentation and tests available. 

The travel requirements can vary for each country, in order to receive the most up to date information regarding the requirements, you will have to contact the embassy of the departure and destination country."

Yours Sincerely
Edina K
Customer Support


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## 255

@manuka -- "Sometimes I feel like making an offer without a viewing...- has anyone ever done that?" Yes, I have done this and have friends that have done this; however, I've not done this in France. My opinion is that "listings" in France are often outdated. I would hire someone to "view" the property for me, if I was going to do this, in France.

As @Clic Clac said, restrictions are set to ease soon. France's Winter tourist season was decimated last year and them opening up might offer you a window to travel. Cheers, 255


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## manuka

Certainly may go ahead and book flights for next week


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## BackinFrance

Clic Clac said:


> Restrictions on entry from the 'UK' are set to be lifted 'very soon'.


Have been walking my dog and haven't caught up with that. Hopefully it will apply to many of the current restrictions which IMHO have brought France to its knees, not just in terms of winter tourism. Just saw some polling on the Presidential elections here and whilst Macron has lost some ground he is well in the lead for the first round, but it is a different story for the 2nd round (not that I have much confidence in polls. I also caught a second or 2 of Véran in the Senate, something to do with Omicron not being particularly serious. 

Anyway I shall try to catch up this afternoon or evening.


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## BackinFrance

I think 'soon' is very vague. I wonder what the trigger is to do it. Has anyone seen that information?


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## Crabtree

But I still cannot see how going on a house hunting expedition with a vague idea of buying and then an even vaguer idea of moving a business to France sometime in the future whilst in possession of a letter written by yourself confirming all this is going to wash with the frontier police who has not had his pause cafe yet and whose piles are playing up* 
Personally I would hang fire to see what changes Macron introduces rather than risk a turn round
* I think this is known as subsidiarity


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## BackinFrance

manuka said:


> Certainly may go ahead and book flights for next week


I can't see you being able to travel next week. It is frustrating but this has occurred because of the virus and government réponses to it. I do seem to recall that there was a window of opportunity to travel around October/November last year because one of our members travelled to his holiday home then and it was definitely all above board. Things could change significantly over the next 2 to 3 months.


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## manuka

Crabtree said:


> But I still cannot see how going on a house hunting expedition with a vague idea of buying and then an even vaguer idea of moving a business to France sometime in the future whilst in possession of a letter written by yourself confirming all this is going to wash with the frontier police who has not had his pause cafe yet and whose piles are playing up*
> Personally I would hang fire to see what changes Macron introduces rather than risk a turn round
> * I think this is known as subsidiarity


We live in uncertain times, where options change. I don't recognise that my ideas are vague. It is reasonable, not vague, to want to go and see a house that fits what we seek. Our house sale in Uk will be done soon, then we won't have a place to live here. That is why it is important to have an idea of where we are going and why I am casting around for options in this strange time.


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## Clic Clac

BackinFrance said:


> I think 'soon' is very vague. I wonder what the trigger is to do it. Has anyone seen that information?


An announcement is expected 'by the end of the week' according to a Govt spokesperson, hopefully to give the green light for next week.


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## BackinFrance

Clic Clac said:


> An announcement is expected 'by the end of the week' according to a Govt spokesperson, hopefully to give the green light for next week.


Can you tell us where you saw or heard that?


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## manuka

Clic Clac said:


> An announcement is expected 'by the end of the week' according to a Govt spokesperson, hopefully to give the green light for next week.


I read that as "announcement ...by... a God spokesman...to give light...." here in the blurry morning without my glasses


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## Clic Clac

BackinFrance said:


> Can you tell us where you saw or heard that?


I can't reveal my sources BiF.
Messages received on rice paper. 😅

*All 'compelling reason' restrictions to be lifted from tomorrow (for the fully vaccinated).


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## BackinFrance

Clic Clac said:


> I can't reveal my sources BiF.
> Messages received on rice paper. 😅
> 
> *All 'compelling reason' restrictions to be lifted from tomorrow (for the fully vaccinated).





Clic Clac said:


> I can't reveal my sources BiF.
> Messages received on rice paper. 😅
> 
> *All 'compelling reason' restrictions to be lifted from tomorrow (for the fully vaccinated).


Haven't been able to confirm it here and gave up looking last night. Perhaps I happen on something, but I think that is unlikely before there is something more definite.


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## Crabtree

Manuka-I am sure that in your own mind you have concrete ideas it is just that people looking in from the outside especially in France and French bureaucracy in particular will want to see a manifestation of those ideas usually in the form of bits of paper and that will be the rythm of your life in France at least at the beginning which why I would advise you to wait until things become clearer


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## BackinFrance

Announced by the French Minister for Education today that the compelling reasons for travel from the UK, I did not catch when it comes into effect.


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## Clic Clac

BackinFrance said:


> Announced by the French Minister for Education today that the compelling reasons for travel from the UK, I did not catch when it comes into effect.


Tomorrow. 



https://mobile.twitter.com/jblemoyne?lang=en


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## BackinFrance

Clic Clac said:


> Tomorrow.
> 
> 
> 
> https://mobile.twitter.com/jblemoyne?lang=en


Yes, from the 14 January, I just did a search.


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## Crabtree

There you go By hanging on a few days then problem solved!!!!
Once you have looked at properties then I suggest that you make contact with the Chambres de Commerce in the area They can help in all sorts of ways to get your business set up and importantly make sure you have the right business structure
www.cci.fr


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## Clic Clac

Here we go again...

The 'compelling reason' clause is back if you were double jabbed more than 9 months ago and haven't had a 'booster'.


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## noblesse

Clic Clac said:


> Here we go again...
> 
> The 'compelling reason' clause is back if you were double jabbed more than 9 months ago and haven't had a 'booster'.


From
Certificate of international travel

*The rules that apply from Friday January 14, 2022 for travel between the UK and France are as follows*


All travelers, vaccinated or not, must initially present a negative test (PCR or antigen test) of less than 24 hours.
For vaccinated travelers, there is no longer any obligation to justify a compelling reason for coming to France, nor any obligation to respect a period of isolation upon arrival on national territory. As such, the need to register, prior to travel, on the "passenger eOS" digital platform has been lifted. Arrival screenings may be conducted at the places of arrival. If the result is positive, the traveler will be placed in isolation.


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