# Hidden costs or other nasties



## Superheterodyne (Aug 2, 2012)

Just interested to find out the pitfalls - if any - of renting a property on a long term basis. I intend eventually to buy somewhere to reside but really need to seek out the best area/deal/bars/etc beforehand.:fingerscrossed:

OR! would buying a static caravan be a sensible option pro tem? Iv'e seen squillions advertised for silly money - perhaps I'm being _suspicious_ but I'm sure the knowledgeable folk on here will be able to say why they're being "given" away...

Many thanks for any assistance given.

Nic


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Renting IMO is by far the best option. The only pitfalls I can think of are, finding work if you need to, health insurance if you are under 65 and proving you have an income and healthcare provision to enable you to become a resident

Jo xxx


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## larryzx (Jul 2, 2014)

Over the recent past I have been having doubts about whether, if 26years ago, I had known what it would be like now, would I have decided to make Spain my home? 

I would suggest to anyone thinking about it, to take professional legal advice on what it entails, including taxation, health care, succession tax (IHT), banking, social support and benefits for the aged and / or the poor, language difficulties. (Evidence shows you will be unlikely to learn enough Spanish to deal easily with every authoritarian problem which occurs, Example: With health problems, maybe a time when you are too ill to want to make the 'language effort' to understand and be understood). 

Spain over the years has done some strange things, at least some of which would not encourage settlement here, the latest, the worldwide asset declaration (form 720) and the new law concerning capital gains tax on property sales, to become fact on 1st Jan 2015.

I would add, don't go for the cheapest legal advise as almost certainly the cheapest will be the worst and almost certainly wrong.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Why, I wonder, should Modelo 720 discourage anyone from settling here?


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## larryzx (Jul 2, 2014)

mrypg9 said:


> Why, I wonder, should Modelo 720 discourage anyone from settling here?


I cited it as ONE potential problem. It is estimated that 95% of those who should have made the declaration have not done so. I suspect that means the majority may not 'like' it, for 'some good reason'. I do not know one person who is happy that they were obliged make the declaration and who would not have chosen not to do so, if if they been given the choice. 

That includes me, despite having always declared and paid taxes on all my earnings on such worldwide assets. 

Last year, having closed an account which had matured and then transferring the same funds to another account, I was obliged to make another 720 Declaration. My assets had not changed.

If one settles in Spain they are in effect choosing voluntarily, to adopt the 720 measures. 

We have read many have left Spain as a result of the720. I am not saying they were right or wrong but before anyone chooses to make Spain their home, I believe they might consider, with proper legal advice, why those people 'voted with their feet'.


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

larryzx said:


> I cited it as ONE potential problem. It is estimated that 95% of those who should have made the declaration have not done so. I suspect that means the majority may not 'like' it, for 'some good reason'. I do not know one person who is happy that they were obliged make the declaration and who would not have chosen not to do so, if if they been given the choice.
> 
> That includes me, despite having always declared and paid taxes on all my earnings on such worldwide assets.
> 
> ...


I, for one, was happy to make this declaration - maybe I'm just naive.


The same sort of rule exists elsewhere so it's not just a 'Spanish thing'.

I think a lot of people left Spain (or chose not to come) simply because they didn't understand the requirement or couldn't be bothered to find out.

If you declare all assets legally and pay tax on them, what's the issue??? Surely it's only those that try and hide information who worry about the 720?


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

mrypg9 said:


> Why, I wonder, should Modelo 720 discourage anyone from settling here?


It mystifies me too, especially as it's common to so many other countries to have to declare all assets worldwide, and declare and pay tax on all worldwide income.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

larryzx said:


> I cited it as ONE potential problem. It is estimated that 95% of those who should have made the declaration have not done so. I suspect that means the majority may not 'like' it, for 'some good reason'. I do not know one person who is happy that they were obliged make the declaration and who would not have chosen not to do so, if if they been given the choice.
> 
> That includes me, despite having always declared and paid taxes on all my earnings on such worldwide assets.
> 
> ...


It is not a 'potential problem'. It is not a problem at all. As Lynn has pointed out (several times on different threads) this is now a requirement common to many countries.

I'll tell you why I think people 'voted with their feet. As I've said to you before on another thread, many of them couldn't really afford to live here in the first place and should have retired in Southend or somewhere they could live comfortably in a British community with access to British social services. Perhaps one should have done one's sums before one left.
Secondly - and this has to be said - I am constantly amazed at the sheer ignorance of some immigrants here, not to mention the 'beware of Johnny Foreigner' attitude. You know, 'Don't trust these *****, they're all out to cheat you'. I've heard it said that Spain would be truly lovely...if all the Spaniards left.

I get really fed up with people referring to Spain as if it were some banana republic. Anyone who has lived and worked beyond Magaluf or Benidorm will know only too well that Spanish bureaucratic procedures are a doddle compared to those in many other EU countries - even Germany. As for Austria, the Czech Republic and so on...
The facts are that getting NIE/Residencia, buying and registering a car, signing on for health insurance, sorting out your tax affairs and so on are not the cumbrous, complicated procedures they are often made out to be. Find out what you need and take it with you, be pleasant and patient, speak Spanish if you can, even just to say Good Morning and Thankyou and in 99% of cases doors will open.

The plain facts are that there are two barriers to a successful life in Spain: not having adequate financial means and having the wrong attitude. Neither of these are Spain's fault.

So I would say to the OP: do your sums. If you know you can live comfortably and weather inflation, exchange rate fluctuations, have a 'cushion' to protect against the unexpected, then come on over.
My advice would be to rent not buy but it's advisable to rent first anyway to get the 'feel' of a place. Then if it doesn't suit you you can move on.

It's true that people are leaving to go back to the UK. But there are still very many arriving, adequately resourced and well0prepared, to start their new retirement life in Spain.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

A propos of my previous post: on Monday I went to the taller I use to get a tyre fixed. While I was waiting an English chap, round about seventyish, came in and as we waited we chatted.
He complained that he had been stopped a couple of times by GC and PN roadblocks in the past few weeks. 
I replied that being a mature inglesa obviously had its benefits as I was always politely waved on at such checks.
'Oh no', said he. 'Your cars on Spanish plates, isn't it....mine aren't. I bet you speak the lingo too'.
The mechanic told me that the gentleman had resided in Spain for years and had two UK plated vehicles.
If that chap had assets sufficient for reporting on Modelo 720.....I'll walk naked through Estepona if he has done so.


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

mrypg9 said:


> As Lynn has pointed out (several times on different threads) this is now a requirement common to many countries.


'Ere, what's with the ?

I'd stop saying it, I'm boring myself never mind you, but people just don't seem to get it and will persist in portraying Spain as the villain of the piece and acting in a way which is in some way unusual and almost vindictive to foreigners, Brits epecially. 

There is only one thing some British (and other) people have a legitimate grievance about IMO, and that is the situation some unfortunate people have found themselves in after buying homes which were later deemed illegal. The ones who did so in good faith, having used a lawyer and bought a property which had a building licence (which turned out to have been issued illegally by a corrupt local Mayor) have been very badly served by the Spanish political and justice system.

I just cannot get my head around the way in which some of the people who ask questions on here get so indignant about the fact they will be required to pay Spanish tax, at Spanish rates, on their income should they become resident here. They have moved away from the UK. Why on earth do they expect just to carry on paying UK taxes when they live in a different country, other than on things such as Government pensions where the UK has sole taxation rights? Do they think a Pakistani or Polish person who moves to the UK should carry on paying tax in Pakistan or Poland?

I saw someone on a forum the other day whinging that as a non-resident, he should get the same reductions on the IBI on his holiday home as residents do, rather than, as he put it "just giving all the time". Since when, in any country, have people sufficiently prosperous to own two homes been given tax breaks? He should think himself lucky. I read just yesterday that in France, Hollande's Government is proposing to increase property taxes on non-residents by 20%.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Lynn R said:


> 'Ere, what's with the ?
> 
> I'd stop saying it, I'm boring myself never mind you, but people just don't seem to get it and will persist in portraying Spain as the villain of the piece and acting in a way which is in some way unusual and almost vindictive to foreigners, Brits epecially.
> 
> ...


The  wasn't aimed at the fact you posted it but that you needed to repost it as it obviously hadn't sunk in with some people....so exasperation not aimed at you
Something tells me it may well have to be reposted...the myths about Modelo 720 live on.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Lynn R said:


> .
> 
> I read just yesterday that in France, Hollande's Government is proposing to increase property taxes on non-residents by 20%.


Oh Lynn...you will now cause spluttering over teacups and the Daily Mail and major fear outbreaks...

It could happen here


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

mrypg9 said:


> Oh Lynn...you will now cause spluttering over teacups and the Daily Mail and major fear outbreaks...
> 
> It could happen here


Well, if that nasty Podemos get in, they are Communists, you know.

I'm sick of the scaremongers having all the fun. If you can't beat 'em, join 'em.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Lynn R said:


> Well, if that nasty Podemos get in, they are Communists, you know.
> 
> I'm sick of the scaremongers having all the fun. If you can't beat 'em, join 'em.


No, they're not communists, some are/were Trots, though. 
Like UKIP, the policies as so far stated aren't viable.
I'm holding my nose and sticking to PSOE.
PSOE Andalucia, that is...


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Shall we stick to the topic of hidden 'horrors' when moving to Spain 

Jo xxx


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## larryzx (Jul 2, 2014)

jojo said:


> Shall we stick to the topic of hidden 'horrors' when moving to Spain
> 
> Jo xxx


OK Jojo, then I will repost my earlier post:- 

_Over the recent past I have been having doubts about whether, if 26years ago, I had known what it would be like now, would I have decided to make Spain my home?

I would suggest to anyone thinking about it, to take professional legal advice on what it entails, including taxation, health care, succession tax (IHT), banking, social support and benefits for the aged and / or the poor, language difficulties. (Evidence shows you will be unlikely to learn enough Spanish to deal easily with every authoritarian problem which occurs, Example: With health problems, maybe a time when you are too ill to want to make the 'language effort' to understand and be understood).

Spain over the years has done some strange things, at least some of which would not encourage settlement here, the latest, the worldwide asset declaration (form 720) and the new law concerning capital gains tax on property sales, to become fact on 1st Jan 2015.

I would add, don't go for the cheapest legal advise as almost certainly the cheapest will be the worst and almost certainly wrong. _


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

larryzx said:


> OK Jojo, then I will repost my earlier post:-
> 
> Over the recent past I have been having doubts about whether, if 26years ago, I had known what it would be like now, would I have decided to make Spain my home?
> 
> ...


There's alot of information on the forum about what needs to be done and thought about. But also a few fact finding trips to get the area right help 

Jo xxx


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## larryzx (Jul 2, 2014)

PS I had typed a longish extra piece to go with my last post, but, yet again the power went off so I lost it. I will not bother to type it again, but maybe suffice to say, in 48 years in UK I can only remember once that the power went off !!!


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

jojo said:


> Shall we stick to the topic of hidden 'horrors' when moving to Spain
> 
> Jo xxx


There are none. Forewarned is forearmed.
Alarmist posts are unhelpful and very often inaccurate.


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## extranjero (Nov 16, 2012)

Lynn R said:


> 'Ere, what's with the ?
> 
> I'd stop saying it, I'm boring myself never mind you, but people just don't seem to get it and will persist in portraying Spain as the villain of the piece and acting in a way which is in some way unusual and almost vindictive to foreigners, Brits epecially.
> 
> ...


However the EU has decided that non residents cannot be discriminated against regarding IHT , and must have the regional allowances that residents have.( unfortunately none in Murcia)


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

larryzx said:


> PS I had typed a longish extra piece to go with my last post, but, yet again the power went off so I lost it. I will not bother to type it again, but maybe suffice to say, in 48 years in UK I can only remember once that the power went off !!!


... so do what I did when in UK and still have now - a 'battery back-up system' (un-interuptable power supply). 

These work great for those odd occasions (for us anyway) when the power spikes or is lost altogether.


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## larryzx (Jul 2, 2014)

snikpoh said:


> ... so do what I did when in UK and still have now - a 'battery back-up system' (un-interuptable power supply).
> 
> These work great for those odd occasions (for us anyway) when the power spikes or is lost altogether.


My third one having given up the ghost I decided enough was enough so have not replaced the USP that I need, at a cost of around 220€. In the property where i am now it's not been a significant problem unlike my last house. out of town, where it was a regular one. And I guess in UK one might be forgiven for asking, 'What's power spike' but of course WE know all too well ! 

As I said another 'nasty' for Superheterodyne, to be aware of when coming to Spain.


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## Superheterodyne (Aug 2, 2012)

jojo said:


> Renting IMO is by far the best option. The only pitfalls I can think of are, finding work if you need to, health insurance if you are under 65 and proving you have an income and healthcare provision to enable you to become a resident
> 
> Jo xxx


Thanks jojo, I don't think finding work would pose me much of a problem. Yes I'm under 65, close tho  I wonder if you might shine a little light on the health insurance point?

Thanks a mil


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## Superheterodyne (Aug 2, 2012)

larryzx said:


> My third one having given up the ghost I decided enough was enough so have not replaced the USP that I need, at a cost of around 220€. In the property where i am now it's not been a significant problem unlike my last house. out of town, where it was a regular one. And I guess in UK one might be forgiven for asking, 'What's power spike' but of course WE know all too well !
> 
> As I said another 'nasty' for Superheterodyne, to be aware of when coming to Spain.


Have you had your wiring checked? UPS's are generally voltage/current tolerant.
Is it "guarded" by a dedicated RCD? If not you might want to buy one?


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## Superheterodyne (Aug 2, 2012)

mrypg9 said:


> There are none. Forewarned is forearmed.
> Alarmist posts are unhelpful and very often inaccurate.


Sounding better all the time

Thanks


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## Superheterodyne (Aug 2, 2012)

Thanks to you all for your kind input.

I will indeed rent initially. Costa Blanca bekons.

N.


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

Superheterodyne said:


> Thanks jojo, I don't think finding work would pose me much of a problem. Yes I'm under 65, close tho  I wonder if you might shine a little light on the health insurance point?
> 
> Thanks a mil


Anyone wanting to be resident in Spain who is under state pension age (both if married) will need to fund private health care for at least a year in order to meet the residency requirements.

After a year of being legally resident (tax returns, etc.), then you are eligible for the convenio especial where you can make payments into a regional health scheme. This is almost available every where now and costs about 60€ per person per month.


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## Lolito (Aug 25, 2012)

Hidden horrors? Well, Council Tax is much cheaper here, as are the medicines, we haven't got to pay TV Licence... health system is much better, and many other 'hidden horrors'... and you don't need to cross the road when you see a group of youngsters hanging around....


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## Horlics (Sep 27, 2011)

I thought we'd agreed, no more marches 



mrypg9 said:


> I'll walk naked through Estepona if he has done so.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Superheterodyne said:


> Thanks jojo, I don't think finding work would pose me much of a problem. Yes I'm under 65, close tho  I wonder if you might shine a little light on the health insurance point?
> 
> Thanks a mil


You will need to get private healthcover until you are receiving a pension. I dont know of any companies, but a few have been mentioned on a variety of threads, and on the http://www.expatforum.com/expats/sp...-living-spain/2725-faqs-lots-useful-info.html

If you're working in Spain, or remotely from Spain, you will be required to pay autonomo and taxes in Spain, so that actually would entitle you to national health care and income, which means you would become a resident

Jo xxx


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

the language discussion is now here http://www.expatforum.com/expats/la-tasca/595585-use-language.html


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Horlics said:


> I thought we'd agreed, no more marches


More of an exhibition than a march....

And certainly no hidden horrors...they would be only too visible.....


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

jojo said:


> Shall we stick to the topic of hidden 'horrors' when moving to Spain
> 
> Jo xxx


Having looked back to the original question, the OP was actually looking for advice about the possible pitfalls of renting a property long term, or buying a static caravan, rather than those relating to moving to Spain in general.

I've never done either so can't offer any advice, but perhaps those who have rented\are renting can. I don't think I would enjoy living in a caravan in Spain either during the heat of summer nor when it's raining hard (imagine the noise on a caravan roof), and have heard\read comments about the fact that although the caravans may look cheap to buy, site rental and service charges can be very high. Other than that, I'm out!


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Lynn R said:


> Having looked back to the original question, the OP was actually looking for advice about the possible pitfalls of renting a property long term, or buying a static caravan, rather than those relating to moving to Spain in general.
> 
> I've never done either so can't offer any advice, but perhaps those who have rented\are renting can. I don't think I would enjoy living in a caravan in Spain either during the heat of summer nor when it's raining hard (imagine the noise on a caravan roof), and have heard\read comments about the fact that although the caravans may look cheap to buy, site rental and service charges can be very high. Other than that, I'm out!



We do have a habit of straying a tad off topic sometimes dont we. He also asked this


Superheterodyne said:


> Thanks jojo, I don't think finding work would pose me much of a problem. Yes I'm under 65, close tho  I wonder if you might shine a little light on the health insurance point?
> 
> Thanks a mil


Jo xxx


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

jojo said:


> We do have a habit of straying a tad off topic sometimes dont we. He also asked this
> 
> Jo xxx





> Originally Posted by *Superheterodyne*
> _Thanks jojo, I don't think finding work would pose me much of a problem. Yes I'm under 65, close tho I wonder if you might shine a little light on the health insurance point?
> 
> Thanks a mil_



... which we've already answered.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Back to 'hidden horrors'.....in the past week I've had to get two new tyres for my LR, the fridge and washing machine have developed leaks, the water in the pool has gone green and murky, the drive band on the tractor thing used to cut the grass has broken and one of our persilianas is stuck in the 'down' position.
These aren't really horrors or hidden as they are everyday problems that can crop up anywhere at any time.
But it's an example of the kind of thing that you need to be prepared for and have the means to pay for if you're not a DIY expert. If you're on a tight budget these things can make a nasty dent.
And all these things have had to be dealt with in Spanish....


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## larryzx (Jul 2, 2014)

mrypg9 said:


> But it's an example of the kind of thing that you need to be prepared for and have the means to pay for if you're not a DIY expert. If you're on a tight budget these things can make a nasty dent.


 Yes a problem if one canot fix it them selves.

Yesterday we had a loud noise from the washing machine as the drum revolved. I managed to partly strip it down and found a bra support wire between the inner and outer drums. Removed it and job done. No expense and no new washer.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

larryzx said:


> Yes a problem if one canot fix it them selves.
> 
> Yesterday we had a loud noise from the washing machine as the drum revolved. I managed to partly strip it down and found a bra support wire between the inner and outer drums. Removed it and job done. No expense and no new washer.


Err.....where did you say you lived, Larry......


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## larryzx (Jul 2, 2014)

mrypg9 said:


> Err.....where did you say you lived, Larry......


Sorry that one has gone over my head. Where I live !


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## larryzx (Jul 2, 2014)

larryzx said:


> Sorry that one has gone over my head. Where I live !


Opps the penny has just dropped.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

larryzx said:


> Opps the penny has just dropped.


I forgive you, it's Friday....and cold and miserable here.

I accept help wherever it's kindly offered....but luckily there are some reliable workmen round here and our gardener can do most things.

But the work has to be paid for. Our neighbour Juan is always willing to assist helpless women but I always give him a bottle of something, whisky or rum, which he complains about and says he doesn't want but tucks under his arm.....


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

larryzx said:


> Yes a problem if one canot fix it them selves.
> 
> Yesterday we had a loud noise from the washing machine as the drum revolved. I managed to partly strip it down and found a bra support wire between the inner and outer drums. Removed it and job done. No expense and no new washer.


You will just have to stop wearing wired bras.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

baldilocks said:


> You will just have to stop wearing wired bras.


Especially so since he gets power cuts.....


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