# Custody



## JPCE (Jul 14, 2008)

Hi, hoping someone can help. My daughter and 2 sons (ages 2 and 5) moved to Houston 3 years ago when her husband got work there. They are all British. My daughter has tried her hardest to settle down but is desperately unhappy. She wants to move back to the UK but her husband has said that if she does, he will take out an injunction to stop her taking the boys out of the USA. Can anyone tell me if he can legally do this? I will be really grateful of any help, thanks


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## Fatbrit (May 8, 2008)

JPCE said:


> Hi, hoping someone can help. My daughter and 2 sons (ages 2 and 5) moved to Houston 3 years ago when her husband got work there. They are all British. My daughter has tried her hardest to settle down but is desperately unhappy. She wants to move back to the UK but her husband has said that if she does, he will take out an injunction to stop her taking the boys out of the USA. Can anyone tell me if he can legally do this? I will be really grateful of any help, thanks


Yes, he can! Your wife needs legal advice from a US family lawyer experienced in family law and international custody issues. Child abduction is covered by the Hague Convention of which both countries are signatories, and your daughter may well be arrested and the children returned to the US were she just to return home with them without her spouse's permission.

She may also need the advice of an immigration attorney since it would seem that her children may remain in the US.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.


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## JPCE (Jul 14, 2008)

Thanks for this but as she isn't working she has no money to pay for a lawyer. What makes it worse is she went on the understanding that after 3 years if she didn't like it they would return to the UK and now he has changed his mind, thanks anyway


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## Fatbrit (May 8, 2008)

What is your daughter's current immigration status in the US? 

e.g. green card, L2 dependent, E2 dependent


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## JPCE (Jul 14, 2008)

He is L1 and my daughter is L2. Thanks for your interest.


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## Fatbrit (May 8, 2008)

JPCE said:


> He is L1 and my daughter is L2. Thanks for your interest.


Rock and a hard place, then. Her immigration status is dependent on her spouse -- divorce and she would have to leave. Yet she would have to present overwhelming reasons for the family court to change the kids' country of residence if the husband fought it. Presumably, also, the younger child is a US citizen

If she had a green card (it's possible from L2), she would at last have independent status were she to divorce.

The cost of any lawyer would be paid for by her husband -- Texas is a community property state. However, given her current circumstances, it would be very unwise to seek divorce. She could possibly pay privately for a one-off consultation with a family lawyer to investigate her options. She should mention her immigration status complications to whoever she does this with.


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## synthia (Apr 18, 2007)

But if her husband were to die, she would be required to leave along with her two children. We deport US citizens who have not reached majority and don't have a parent legally resident in the US.

The best plan would be to appear to adjust, and apply for a green card on her own. Then divorce, then leave.


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## Fatbrit (May 8, 2008)

synthia said:


> But if her husband were to die, she would be required to leave along with her two children. We deport US citizens who have not reached majority and don't have a parent legally resident in the US.
> 
> The best plan would be to appear to adjust, and apply for a green card on her own. Then divorce, then leave.


Now you mention it, I think her best solution would indeed be for the husband to die! Then she can return to the UK with the kids. But it seems a little drastic (not to mention conspiratorial) -- and we really shouldn't take sides!

She can't apply for a green card on her own! Her husband's company must sponsor them. But at least that would mean she would not be separated from her kids were she to divorce him and the court refused her permission to take them to the UK. Of course, it would be in the husband's interest if she didn't have permanent residence.

In her present status and with a failing marriage, I can easily see a situation whereby her kids remain in the US but has no permission to live here. Not good for any mother.


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## RICHNTRISH (Jun 4, 2008)

synthia said:


> But if her husband were to die, she would be required to leave along with her two children. We deport US citizens who have not reached majority and don't have a parent legally resident in the US.


Wow , steady on there ! One side of the story and all that , he might be the nice guy .


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## JPCE (Jul 14, 2008)

Strange as it may seem, apart from this issue, they are still a relatively happily married couple. On the assumption that my son-in-law does not take out an injunction, when my daughter and their sons come to the UK in September for 4 weeks holiday, with his full approval, do you know what would happen if she decided not to go back? Also assuming there is no injunction taken out, what would happen if she decided to pack up and return to the UK with no intention of returning to USA? If he does take out an injunction, is my daughter notified of this? Thanks for so much help.


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## RICHNTRISH (Jun 4, 2008)

Sorry , buts thats terrible. Men are parents as well you know and all decicisons should be made jointly , not just take his kids away from him and tell him 4 weeks later!


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## JPCE (Jul 14, 2008)

Yes, point taken. I am only looking at any options. Considering when they moved it was on the understanding that if either of them disliked it they would move back to the UK and now he has had a total change of mind, it is very unfair on my daughter as she has given it her best shot. Now if the shoe had been on the other foot, they would have moved back even if my daughter had loved the USA. And don't get me wrong I get on very well with my son-in-law and would never wish him any harm but just don't like this black cloud hanging over my daughter when she is so far away and has nobody to turn to.


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## twostep (Apr 3, 2008)

She does not want to stay in the US so why the GC talk? They were legally married in the UK. How can a US court get involved? They are not citizens.

My question - why is she so unhappy?


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## JPCE (Jul 14, 2008)

Why is she unhappy? She is quite a shy person anway, yes she has made friends but not close friends. She was brought up surrounded by aunts, uncles, grandparents, cousins and friends, which she feels the boys are missing out on as she had such a happy time. She has to see to the boys practically 24/7 as her husband does very little to help, preferring, 2-3 times a week to drive home late via a bar, which she is totally against and he would never have done in the UK. Depending on how 'stressful' a day he has had, he expects the boys to be quiet when he does come home early so that he can relax. I truly think she has every reason to be unhappy.


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## Fatbrit (May 8, 2008)

JPCE said:


> Strange as it may seem, apart from this issue, they are still a relatively happily married couple. On the assumption that my son-in-law does not take out an injunction, when my daughter and their sons come to the UK in September for 4 weeks holiday, with his full approval, do you know what would happen if she decided not to go back? Also assuming there is no injunction taken out, what would happen if she decided to pack up and return to the UK with no intention of returning to USA? If he does take out an injunction, is my daughter notified of this? Thanks for so much help.


If the husband files, it comes under the Hague Convention. Some countries have a good record of ignoring the Convention, but the UK is not one of these. The children's home is undoubtedly the US, and they will be returned there under the jurisdiction of a US court. If he does nothing, she's home and dry. She needs legal advice before she does anything so drastic.


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## Fatbrit (May 8, 2008)

twostep said:


> She does not want to stay in the US so why the GC talk? They were legally married in the UK. How can a US court get involved? They are not citizens.
> 
> My question - why is she so unhappy?


The GC talk is because it gives her the right to live and work in the US independent of her husband. Since she is in a position where her young children might well remain in the US, this gives her some degree of safety -- even if she does hate the place!

A US court can certainly be involved. If you decide to rob the bank tomorrow and they catch you, you will be sitting in the US District Court answering your accusers. If you decide that your spouse's inability to place the toilet seat in the correct position must lead to divorce, you can file for divorce in a family court. Your home country's court may or may not respect your divorce -- but the US authorities certainly will.


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## Fatbrit (May 8, 2008)

JPCE said:


> Why is she unhappy? She is quite a shy person anway, yes she has made friends but not close friends. She was brought up surrounded by aunts, uncles, grandparents, cousins and friends, which she feels the boys are missing out on as she had such a happy time. She has to see to the boys practically 24/7 as her husband does very little to help, preferring, 2-3 times a week to drive home late via a bar, which she is totally against and he would never have done in the UK. Depending on how 'stressful' a day he has had, he expects the boys to be quiet when he does come home early so that he can relax. I truly think she has every reason to be unhappy.


So the other answer is to work on her life and/or the marriage. How far did she get on the education ladder? US education is flexible, provides crèches, and will get her out and about meeting people instead of hanging out lonely in a McMansion all day. Just a thought.


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## twostep (Apr 3, 2008)

As unhappy and uninvolded as she seems to be here - she has no reason to stay. Let her go on vacation, take the kids, look at the situation from a remote perspective and deal with it on familiar ground - the UK. 

It takes a lot for a US judge to grant custody to a father. Not to mention he is not here on a permanent basis yet.


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## Fatbrit (May 8, 2008)

twostep said:


> As unhappy and uninvolded as she seems to be here - she has no reason to stay. Let her go on vacation, take the kids, look at the situation from a remote perspective and deal with it on familiar ground - the UK.
> 
> It takes a lot for a US judge to grant custody to a father. Not to mention he is not here on a permanent basis yet.


Google for the "Hague Convention on Child Abduction" and read. The court with jurisdiction is the court where the children are resident. And, if the father pushes the matter, the children will most probably be returned to the US and its jurisdiction. The mother may or may not be arrested and tried for abduction.

Also, never forget there are two separate issues here:
Immigration is a federal issue and under the jurisdiction of federal courts.
Divorce and child custody issues are under the jurisdiction of state courts.


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## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

JPCE said:


> Why is she unhappy? She is quite a shy person anway, yes she has made friends but not close friends. She was brought up surrounded by aunts, uncles, grandparents, cousins and friends, which she feels the boys are missing out on as she had such a happy time. She has to see to the boys practically 24/7 as her husband does very little to help, preferring, 2-3 times a week to drive home late via a bar, which she is totally against and he would never have done in the UK. Depending on how 'stressful' a day he has had, he expects the boys to be quiet when he does come home early so that he can relax. I truly think she has every reason to be unhappy.


OK, she is unhappy, but is she actively considering divorce here? If she isn't to that point yet, perhaps she ought to be looking at counseling of some variety (marriage, psychological or whatever else is available). Maybe even a vacation away from the boys (all three of them) for a week or two (back to England or not). 

Being an expat has its ups and downs, and sometimes getting away from things for a while can convince you that your situation is more bearable than you had thought. I don't say that to trivialize things. Being more or less "trapped" at home in a strange country (and in lots of ways the US can be very strange) can bring anyone down. Perhaps she needs to get out and work, simply to find her own "space" and life outside the home. Or at least to get involved in something (classes or volunteer work) outside the home. Find day care or a nursery school for a couple days a week - or hire a local kid to babysit after school a couple afternoons a week to give her a chance to get out on her own.
Cheers,
Bev


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## exexpat (Jul 7, 2008)

Your daughter has to be served with the injunction, or a 'reasonable effort' must be made to serve it on her, so yes, she would be notified.
As for not returning to the States? my guess would be that there could be a case of Parentel Kidnapping if the youngest boy was born in the States. If not have her consult a lawyer in the UK about filing for divorce here (I'm assuming that they were married in the UK). 
It really depends on the citizen status of the youngest child.
Other than that, Fatbrit and Synthia are right on the money! You need professional legal advice!


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## JPCE (Jul 14, 2008)

Both children were born in the UK and they were married in the UK. I would like to thank you all for your comments which I have taken on board and passed on to my daughter although to be honest we are non the wiser. Don't understand why she could be accused of abduction by taking her sons back to the land of their birth. Anyway we have decided to go through the proper channels and seek legal advice here. Thanks again to all of you.


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