# Health Insurance



## hadi8253

In 2001 (58 years old) I chose Bupa Thailand as my health insurance. The benefit plan (Ruby), the guaranty of “life time” if I pay yearly my premium, the yearly amount for my premium, all this seemed to be OK.

It worsened in 2006 (63y). The premium raised yearly, in 2009 when I became 66 by almost 20 % also I did not make any claim. During the last 6 years the premium has almost doubled!
According to Bupa “medical inflation” and/or “age band” is responsible for the increase. My repeated question how much I will have to pay next year, when I will become 70 has after 9 (nine !) emails not yet been answered.

And it became really bad: My wife also insured by Bupa since 2001, never made a claim had a premium raise at 37,25 % when her age changed from 55 to 56 years.

The promise of “renewal is guaranteed for life” is easy done by Bupa. Bupa will raise the premium every year without any warning until you will be happy to leave this company …


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## joseph44

That's the case will most, if not all, insurance-providers. 
At this moment (51 yo) I pay USD 1182 per year, but by the time I'll be 65 I'll pay USD 2850 and that is not included the yearly increases. 
(Aprile Mobilite - France)


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## Mweiga

It's a trade off between risking a budget insurance company with lower premiums that may sooner or later become one of the several blacklisted by hospitals in Thailand or even go bust , and one of the large well-established universally accepted companies with high premiums.

Have had a BUPA International policy for the past 20 years on which have never made a claim but which now has skyrocketing annual premiums. Checked out BUPA's cred with the major hospitals and no problem for acceptability , so will bite the bullet and stick with them.

An American friend was laid up for a week in Pattaya's Bangkok International Hospital last year after a motorbike accident with a six figure bill and a policy from a US insurance company they advised him was blacklisted with them whilst he was recuperating and with the bill climbing daily. You pays yer money and takes yer choice.


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## hadi8253

You mean it's time to die early enough:confused2:


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## joseph44

hadi8253 said:


> You mean it's time to die early enough:confused2:


Time to do a sky-diving course from one of Pattaya's high rises? 

No, it's just time to face the consequences of getting older. One of the consequences is an increasing health-insurance-premium.


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## hadi8253

joseph44 said:


> Time to do a sky-diving course from one of Pattaya's high rises?
> 
> No, it's just time to face the consequences of getting older. One of the consequences is an increasing health-insurance-premium.


Yes - I know it and I do agree. But I have difficulties to understand: in the same year, same benefit plan, same insurance company, my premium rose by 5,86% (68y to 69y old) my wife's premium rose by 37,25% (55y to 56y old) no claims made since 6 years. And after 9 emails it should be possible, to answer my question how much we have to pay next year if we do not make a claim. Bupa treated me as a fool and I wrote them I will have to go public - that's it.


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## mikecwm

Self insuring.
As someone who plans on living into my 90s I have given serious thought to the prospect of ever increasing health insurance premiums and decided that I would rather put the annual premiums safely away (after first seeding the fund with 1,000,000B) in a savings account.
I fully expect that if I did take out insurance by the time I get into my 80s, the annual premiums would be astronomical - never mind in my 90s!
Eventually I would have to stop paying and be left with no coverage and no medical fund safely stashed away. 
I believe that now, at 65, is the time to make the crucial decision and start building up that self insurance fund.
The more I hear about Health Insurance companies - the less I am inclined to give them millions of Baht.


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## JWilliamson

I know many friends in Hong Kong who are working in various insurance companies and from what they have been telling me is that it is a good idea to go through an insurance broker. A broker can walk you through various insurance plans and find one that will serve what you need. Pacific prime or Globalsurance are just two that can provide international insurance.


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## hadi8253

*absolut right*



mikecwm said:


> Self insuring.
> As someone who plans on living into my 90s I have given serious thought to the prospect of ever increasing health insurance premiums and decided that I would rather put the annual premiums safely away (after first seeding the fund with 1,000,000B) in a savings account.
> I fully expect that if I did take out insurance by the time I get into my 80s, the annual premiums would be astronomical - never mind in my 90s!
> Eventually I would have to stop paying and be left with no coverage and no medical fund safely stashed away.
> I believe that now, at 65, is the time to make the crucial decision and start building up that self insurance fund.
> The more I hear about Health Insurance companies - the less I am inclined to give them millions of Baht.


When I started with Bupa as my health insurance I was 57y. Today 69y - I have to agree - it was a mistake. If I could start over, I would do the same!
hadi8253


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## SteveMcCrady

JWilliamson said:


> I know many friends in Hong Kong who are working in various insurance companies and from what they have been telling me is that it is a good idea to go through an insurance broker. A broker can walk you through various insurance plans and find one that will serve what you need. Pacific prime or Globalsurance are just two that can provide international insurance.


Pacific Prime and Globalsurance are one in the same.


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## stednick

*Rolling the Dice ?*

If you could predict the future you would not be concerned with health insurance. You would know exactly what you need and could plan accordingly. The problem with health insurance is the unknown. Is it "cost effective"? Yes it is ... provided you get a disease, infection or are involved in an accident. On the flip side ... it is a total waste of money if you do not need it. So ... roll the dice. 

A couple of guarantees; population growth will continue to provide the insurance companies with an ever increasing customer base (a greater pool to select from), health insurance costs and premiums will continue to rise, as people age they require increasing medical care, technical advances in medicines and medical procedures will increase life spans, it is impossible to predict the future, it is impossible to assign a monetary value to an individual's life as it is impossible to monetize quality-of-life. 

So, all-in-all, you are rolling the dice. Regardless of the method you choose to plan for your future health care needs and/or requirements, a time will come when sustaining your life is cost prohibitive. The more philosophical question is based on your quality of life and whether you or your heirs believe your quality of life is "good enough" to justify the expense of sustaining it. 

Concerning my retirement medical insurance; I will make my "formal" decision based on the size of my nest egg (feasible to self-insure), and the cost of medical premiums versus the coverage and limitations of the specific policies available.

I do keep in mind that a serious illness, disease or accident can result in tens or possibly hundreds of thousands of dollars, or tens of millions of Baht in related medical charges.

Medical insurance; Truly a question that only the individual can answer. Analyze your options and select carefully. Good luck.


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## CSI Texas

Mikecwm,

I like your idea of puting away the annual preiums into a savings and starting the account off with a good size deposit. One never knows when they will get sick but this sounds better than the preiums going up each year you grown older until you no longer can make the payments then your SOL. I will be 70 in 6 months so will probably go this route when we retire.


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## hadi8253

stednick said:


> If you could predict the future you would not be concerned with health insurance. You would know exactly what you need and could plan accordingly. The problem with health insurance is the unknown. Is it "cost effective"? Yes it is ... provided you get a disease, infection or are involved in an accident. On the flip side ... it is a total waste of money if you do not need it. So ... roll the dice.
> 
> A couple of guarantees; population growth will continue to provide the insurance companies with an ever increasing customer base (a greater pool to select from), health insurance costs and premiums will continue to rise, as people age they require increasing medical care, technical advances in medicines and medical procedures will increase life spans, it is impossible to predict the future, it is impossible to assign a monetary value to an individual's life as it is impossible to monetize quality-of-life.
> 
> So, all-in-all, you are rolling the dice. Regardless of the method you choose to plan for your future health care needs and/or requirements, a time will come when sustaining your life is cost prohibitive. The more philosophical question is based on your quality of life and whether you or your heirs believe your quality of life is "good enough" to justify the expense of sustaining it.
> 
> Concerning my retirement medical insurance; I will make my "formal" decision based on the size of my nest egg (feasible to self-insure), and the cost of medical premiums versus the coverage and limitations of the specific policies available.
> 
> I do keep in mind that a serious illness, disease or accident can result in tens or possibly hundreds of thousands of dollars, or tens of millions of Baht in related medical charges.
> 
> Medical insurance; Truly a question that only the individual can answer. Analyze your options and select carefully. Good luck.


Thanks for your answer. I did analyze but selected probably the wrong.
Too late to start over ...


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## stednick

*Never to late to review options*

hadi8253:

A thread titled "medical insurance" is located in the basement lounge section of this Thailand Ex-pat forum. On 12JUN12 Mr. Cooke responded to the thread and graciously shared a PDF file which showed the medical insurance quotations he received. I believe they were for a 64 yo Ex-Pat in Thailand, coverage date: FEB12

I believe Mr. Cooke used a broker, as identified on the PDF file as Rafael Ackermann [email protected]rime.com Tel: (+86) 21 6445 4592 ext. 121 Mobile (+86) 139 1675 5947

You may want to contact him to discuss your situation. As I have not used him, I cannot endorse him, however, he does appear to be a broker of Ex-Pat Insurance. He should be an expert it what is available to us Ex-Pats regarding insurance and he should be able to provide you with incite, details and suggestions about what will be the best fit for you and your wife. 

Just to expand on the insurance questions, in my experience, it is almost impossible to compare "apples-to-apples" when it comes to insurance plans. Every individual and situation is different and finding the best fit for insurance is a complex derivation. To select correctly you either need to be downright lucky, an insurance professional, or a self-taught expert (requires a ridiculous amount of hours of investigation and study). 

So, really, you need to seek an experts opinion to make the correct choices.

Once again, I would like to thank Mr. Cooke for sharing the information he received with us all. Thank You.

hadi8253, I hope this helps and good luck either in resolving this dilemma or at least satisfying yourself that you are being treated fairly and responsibly.


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## cooked

stednick said:


> hadi8253:
> 
> A thread titled "medical insurance" is located in the basement lounge section of this Thailand Ex-pat forum. On 12JUN12 Mr. Cooke responded to the thread and graciously shared a PDF file which showed the medical insurance quotations he received. I believe they were for a 64 yo Ex-Pat in Thailand, coverage date: FEB12
> 
> I believe Mr. Cooke used a broker, as identified on the PDF file as Rafael Ackermann [email protected] Tel: (+86) 21 6445 4592 ext. 121 Mobile (+86) 139 1675 5947
> 
> You may want to contact him to discuss your situation. As I have not used him, I cannot endorse him, however, he does appear to be a broker of Ex-Pat Insurance. He should be an expert it what is available to us Ex-Pats regarding insurance and he should be able to provide you with incite, details and suggestions about what will be the best fit for you and your wife.
> 
> Just to expand on the insurance questions, in my experience, it is almost impossible to compare "apples-to-apples" when it comes to insurance plans. Every individual and situation is different and finding the best fit for insurance is a complex derivation. To select correctly you either need to be downright lucky, an insurance professional, or a self-taught expert (requires a ridiculous amount of hours of investigation and study).
> 
> So, really, you need to seek an experts opinion to make the correct choices.
> 
> Once again, I would like to thank Mr. Cooke for sharing the information he received with us all. Thank You.
> 
> hadi8253, I hope this helps and good luck either in resolving this dilemma or at least satisfying yourself that you are being treated fairly and responsibly.


I should add that the quotes are for International insurance, so there may be an interest in reducing the coverage to Thailand, travel insurance is always available.


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## bkk

I have never bought health insurance but have instead saved money so that I can pay for healthcare needs myself. I also eat a healthy diet and exercise regularly. I think this is the best option. Even with insurance many companies won't pay for what you actually need because you either don't meet their criteria or you want treatment that they don't offer.

And, as the OP has found out, they will keep upping the premium until you can't afford it. It's mostly a waste of money.


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## JWilliamson

*A little of both*



bkk said:


> I have never bought health insurance but have instead saved money so that I can pay for healthcare needs myself. I also eat a healthy diet and exercise regularly. I think this is the best option. Even with insurance many companies won't pay for what you actually need because you either don't meet their criteria or you want treatment that they don't offer.
> 
> And, as the OP has found out, they will keep upping the premium until you can't afford it. It's mostly a waste of money.


I do believe in your plan of eating healthy and exercising. I do both but I still have had a history of needing dental work. I am from USA and I have had a history of needing my cavities fixed even though I brush 2 to 4 times everyday. Dental work is expensive and when I moved to Hong Kong some five years ago I did get insurance for this. Also I did get a health insurance plan which actually was very inexpensive due to having a bigger co-payment. I got this plan through Globalsurance (Insurance Broker)after looking and asking around for information. Two years after getting this plan i needed a hernia Operation and I have never used any insurance myself cause I have been generally healthy. I called Globalsurance and they helped me find a local doctor and helped me do all the paper work. Most of the paper work I had no idea where to start. I saw the doctor and he informed me of the Hospital then I informed Globalsurance and they talked to the insurance company and some weeks later I checked into the hospital. I was told that I was going to meet the insurance agent at the check in at the hospital. When I arrived the agent was there and the agent talked to the head nurse at the counter. I was looking to get a room with one other patient but the agent told me I can get a Private room all to myself and I was happy about that. I got a room like a huge hotel room with all the comforts and cable TV!. All went well and much easier then I ever thought. Also BTW my dental plan I have used many times and that too went well and easy. JW


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## stednick

*required TLC*



JWilliamson said:


> I called Globalsurance and they helped me find a local doctor and helped me do all the paper work. Most of the paper work I had no idea where to start. I saw the doctor and he informed me of the Hospital then I informed Globalsurance and they talked to the insurance company and some weeks later I checked into the hospital. I was told that I was going to meet the insurance agent at the check in at the hospital. When I arrived the agent was there and the agent talked to the head nurse at the counter. I was looking to get a room with one other patient but the agent told me I can get a Private room all to myself and I was happy about that. I got a room like a huge hotel room with all the comforts and cable TV!. All went well and much easier then I ever thought.


It is a great benefit (almost priceless) to have someone take care of the medical details involved in a hospital stay, operation, and/or ANY serious medical issue. 

It is an almost impossible task to protect your interests when you are in pain, incapacitated or unable to understand the implications of the decisions you must make. Such as a foreigner dealing with a foreign language's written medical and legal lingo. 

You do need a trusted advocate who is knowledgeable in all aspects of the foreign medical system. A reasonable medical insurance plan will provide this along with the peace-of-mind you need for a full recovery. 

Mr. Williamson. thanks for your story.


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## owenjones

hadi8253 said:


> In 2001 (58 years old) I chose Bupa Thailand as my health insurance. The benefit plan (Ruby), the guaranty of “life time” if I pay yearly my premium, the yearly amount for my premium, all this seemed to be OK.
> 
> It worsened in 2006 (63y). The premium raised yearly, in 2009 when I became 66 by almost 20 % also I did not make any claim. During the last 6 years the premium has almost doubled!
> According to Bupa “medical inflation” and/or “age band” is responsible for the increase. My repeated question how much I will have to pay next year, when I will become 70 has after 9 (nine !) emails not yet been answered.
> 
> And it became really bad: My wife also insured by Bupa since 2001, never made a claim had a premium raise at 37,25 % when her age changed from 55 to 56 years.
> 
> The promise of “renewal is guaranteed for life” is easy done by Bupa. Bupa will raise the premium every year without any warning until you will be happy to leave this company …


Google expats club Pattaya; go to their page and look up health insurance.

There are at least two schemes (one is for over 65).
I am 58 and pay 24k Baht a year.
They are corporate schemes so everyone pays the same regardless of claims, but premiums have risen a lot (doubled) in seven years.

Owen


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## MisterB

*Bupa*

We are aslo assured by Bupa and effectively the premliums rised but they are quite affordable and we had some claims, Bupa paid without problem. We have a friend assured by AIA, the premiums are more expensive, quite a lot more, and AIA does not pay well. Friend's wife is in hospital since 4 months and had three operations for a colon cancer. At that time AIA refused to pay, even for the room, the bills never match the insurance requirements. They said they may be will pay for the room but not for the operations and the drugs. At that time friends spent 600'000 bath. Same for another claim from him, AIA said the guy had hight blood pressure and did not mentioned it. He had blood pressure after an intervention at the hospital, but never before.... Be happy with Bupa or book an international insurance but the premiums are not the same.




















hadi8253 said:


> In 2001 (58 years old) I chose Bupa Thailand as my health insurance. The benefit plan (Ruby), the guaranty of “life time” if I pay yearly my premium, the yearly amount for my premium, all this seemed to be OK.
> 
> It worsened in 2006 (63y). The premium raised yearly, in 2009 when I became 66 by almost 20 % also I did not make any claim. During the last 6 years the premium has almost doubled!
> According to Bupa “medical inflation” and/or “age band” is responsible for the increase. My repeated question how much I will have to pay next year, when I will become 70 has after 9 (nine !) emails not yet been answered.
> 
> And it became really bad: My wife also insured by Bupa since 2001, never made a claim had a premium raise at 37,25 % when her age changed from 55 to 56 years.
> 
> The promise of “renewal is guaranteed for life” is easy done by Bupa. Bupa will raise the premium every year without any warning until you will be happy to leave this company …


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## owenjones

MisterB said:


> We are aslo assured by Bupa and effectively the premliums rised but they are quite affordable and we had some claims, Bupa paid without problem. We have a friend assured by AIA, the premiums are more expensive, quite a lot more, and AIA does not pay well. Friend's wife is in hospital since 4 months and had three operations for a colon cancer. At that time AIA refused to pay, even for the room, the bills never match the insurance requirements. They said they may be will pay for the room but not for the operations and the drugs. At that time friends spent 600'000 bath. Same for another claim from him, AIA said the guy had hight blood pressure and did not mentioned it. He had blood pressure after an intervention at the hospital, but never before.... Be happy with Bupa or book an international insurance but the premiums are not the same.


I can only speak for myself and my wife.

Three years ago i was diagnosed with premature senile cataracts.
In my right eye.
I went to Bangkok-Pattaya hospital and had a plastic lens fitted within my eye.
It cost 60k Baht and the insurance paid everything.

The following year, the other eye went and I had the same operation, but this time I had to pay 10k for the lens. When I queried it, they said they had made a mistake last time but let it ride.

In January this year, my wife slipped while cleaning the bathroom and broke her upper arm. The family took her to a local shama (no offence), but he did not set the bone before splinting it.He was an idiot and it nearly cost my wife her arm.

We went to hospital and it required surgery, staying there for 10 days and regular surveillance day and night.

The bill was 80k and the insurance paid the lot. 

The room was better than many hotels I have stayed in my life.

Just my experience.
No affiliate links.

Owen.
PS: its called AA Insure, not AIA, I don't know them.


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## MisterB

*Health insurance*

AA insure is a brokers company, AIA is a life-insurance company, also making health insurance. I do think that AA chosen a good health company for you and your wife. (depends also on the plan you have and the premiums you pay)





owenjones said:


> I can only speak for myself and my wife.
> 
> Three years ago i was diagnosed with premature senile cataracts.
> In my right eye.
> I went to Bangkok-Pattaya hospital and had a plastic lens fitted within my eye.
> It cost 60k Baht and the insurance paid everything.
> 
> The following year, the other eye went and I had the same operation, but this time I had to pay 10k for the lens. When I queried it, they said they had made a mistake last time but let it ride.
> 
> In January this year, my wife slipped while cleaning the bathroom and broke her upper arm. The family took her to a local shama (no offence), but he did not set the bone before splinting it.He was an idiot and it nearly cost my wife her arm.
> 
> We went to hospital and it required surgery, staying there for 10 days and regular surveillance day and night.
> 
> The bill was 80k and the insurance paid the lot.
> 
> The room was better than many hotels I have stayed in my life.
> 
> Just my experience.
> No affiliate links.
> 
> Owen.
> PS: its called AA Insure, not AIA, I don't know them.


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## owenjones

MisterB said:


> AA insure is a brokers company, AIA is a life-insurance company, also making health insurance. I do think that AA chosen a good health company for you and your wife. (depends also on the plan you have and the premiums you pay)


Yes, you are quite right, AA is the broker for the ex-pats club which holds the corporate plan with the Thai Health Insurance Co (I think).


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