# IMMI s57 Natural Justice- guide me - urgent



## prabhufk (Feb 22, 2016)

Hello friends and Experts i urgently need your help as i got IMMI s57 Natural Justice by my Case officer on 22 Aug 2016.

I applied visa as A Toolmaker (ANZSCO code 323412). From June 2004 to Sep 2007 I had worked as a tool maker. Later I learnt the cad software and started working as a Design engineer. My roles and responsibilities are designing the tools, moulds and product design. 

On 8 -Aug-2016 I got the call from Delhi, the officer asked about the my roles and responsibilities. and he asked whether my current company have any tool room or not.

My reply was as below: 

You stated that you are working at ***** as a Senior Design Engineer and was
promoted to lead design engineer last month.

● You are in-charged in designing products as requested by company clients and issue
bill of materials thereof;
● You further stated that you designed sheet metal part which forms the major part of
work undertaken;
● You stated that your role is limited to design and drawing;
● You utilised software tools such as Pro-E and CAD in your work;
● You confirmed you rarely get projects relating to make and repair tools, jigs and
fixtures ;
To elaborate your work, you stated that the customers send design document which
would have all the assembly and the customers would ask your company to add another part to the design of the product. In particular, you then design the additional part using the software. Most of their clients were in the USA and manufacturing is done at client
side only.
● You confirmed that there is no tool room in the company.

Now I got the mail form CO as below:
Based on the evidence and information before me , I am not satisfied that your employment claims with **** ***a Ltd is closely related to your nominated occupation. I am also not satisfied that this document supports your claim that you were employed at a skilled level and undertook duties of the complexity and level of depth expected for the occupation of Toolmaker (ANZSCO code 323412 ) with ******. during the relevant period.

Experts and friends your advise and comments really appreciated. Kindly help me to resolve this issue.

If any one want to advice me contact on <*SNIP*> number.
*
Please don't put personal information such as phone numbers and email addresses in your posts - see Rule 4: http://www.expatforum.com/expats/general-expat-discussions/2397-forum-rules.html kaju/moderator*

Thanks in advance.

Regards,
Prabhu


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## BulletAK (Sep 21, 2015)

Well, I really dont have much idea about your occupation but maybe more documentary evidence will do as some sort of declarations from your colleagues.

What docs have you submitted so far for employment claims?


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## prabhufk (Feb 22, 2016)

BulletAK said:


> Well, I really dont have much idea about your occupation but maybe more documentary evidence will do as some sort of declarations from your colleagues.
> 
> What docs have you submitted so far for employment claims?


I have submitted offer letters, and declaration from colleagues.
but CO point is that my current roles and responsibilities and Tool maker responsibilities are not matching.


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## backhome (Jul 14, 2016)

prabhufk said:


> I have submitted offer letters, and declaration from colleagues.
> but CO point is that my current roles and responsibilities and Tool maker responsibilities are not matching.


If that is the case than how was your skill approved? i mean is your skill verifiedby Vetasses or any other authority before? course it was. you only gotta re-claim your point. a signed affidavit form from your manager describing your roles and responsibilities can work. 

Good luck bro! i hope the matter gets sorted


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## BulletAK (Sep 21, 2015)

prabhufk said:


> I have submitted offer letters, and declaration from colleagues.
> but CO point is that my current roles and responsibilities and Tool maker responsibilities are not matching.


How they are not matching? Did you described different roles when they took your interview?


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## prabhufk (Feb 22, 2016)

backhome said:


> prabhufk said:
> 
> 
> > I have submitted offer letters, and declaration from colleagues.
> ...


I done the TRA. And I have applied 489 visa. Before providing 10 points.they did the verification with my old employer.


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## prabhufk (Feb 22, 2016)

BulletAK said:


> prabhufk said:
> 
> 
> > I have submitted offer letters, and declaration from colleagues.
> ...


I have described,as same as I defined. While approving the TRA they not had the issue, while providing 10 points(489 visa). They not had the problem. But while providing the visa they are raising this issue.


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## dave85 (Sep 8, 2015)

prabhufk said:


> I have described,as same as I defined. While approving the TRA they not had the issue, while providing 10 points(489 visa). They not had the problem. But while providing the visa they are raising this issue.


It does not matter whether TRA had the issue or not. DIBP is acting well within its rights to check your employment, roles and responsibilities. DIBP conducts its own verification checks that can be independent from the skills assessing body. 

It seems that the CO is not convinced that your actual job duties actually match up with the nominated skilled occupation. I think the most questionable parts are "there is no tool room" and that "your role is limited to design and drawing". 

One of the core duties of Toolmaker is to "... makes and repairs tools, dies, jigs, fixtures and other precision parts and equipment to fine tolerances for machine tools and other production machinery", and perhaps "shaping metal and wood stock using machine tools" - This information can be found from the internet. 

Since your workplace has no tool room, and you confirm that "you rarely get projects relating to make and repair tools, jigs and fixtures", the CO is querying whether you actually do in fact work within your nominated occupation.


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## prabhufk (Feb 22, 2016)

Yes, you are correct. As I gained the experience I started to doing the design of the products and tool design. To do the any design designer must have the tooling knowledge then only he do the design without any failure.
Hence design also part of the tooling.


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## Maggie-May24 (May 19, 2015)

prabhufk said:


> Yes, you are correct. As I gained the experience I started to doing the design of the products and tool design. To do the any design designer must have the tooling knowledge then only he do the design without any failure.
> Hence design also part of the tooling.


Yes, but the occupation you have applied under is a tool maker. If you don't have at least 3 years working experience in the past 10 years as an actual toolmaker, then you cannot claim 10 years work experience. It sounds like you have 3 years work experience, but it is not within the past 10 years so you cannot claim it all for points.


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## BulletAK (Sep 21, 2015)

If you are unable to justify your roles and responsibilities, then its better to withdraw your application. Its better then a rejection. Step carefully.


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## prabhufk (Feb 22, 2016)

Maggie-May24 said:


> Yes, but the occupation you have applied under is a tool maker. If you don't have at least 3 years working experience in the past 10 years as an actual toolmaker, then you cannot claim 10 years work experience. It sounds like you have 3 years work experience, but it is not within the past 10 years so you cannot claim it all for points.


Hi,
Thanks for your advise.
I have completed NTTF in the year 2004 June. And did 6 month training in Tool room.
From 2004 June to 2007 Sep i worked in tool room.
Hence Including my training I have more than 3 years of experience.
Even after Even though I shifted to Design I used to handle projects related to tooling.

Waiting for your advice. 

Regards,
Prabhu


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## BulletAK (Sep 21, 2015)

prabhufk said:


> Hi,
> Thanks for your advise.
> I have completed NTTF in the year 2004 June. And did 6 month training in Tool room.
> From 2004 June to 2007 Sep i worked in tool room.
> ...


Then do mention this to your CO. Try to arrange an affidavit from your manager stating this and also a shift of your roles and responsibilities since then. Make sure that your experience is counted after post qualification. You need to justify this to your CO. And you better know how to do it.


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## dave85 (Sep 8, 2015)

prabhufk said:


> Hi,
> Thanks for your advise.
> I have completed NTTF in the year 2004 June. And did 6 month training in Tool room.
> From 2004 June to 2007 Sep i worked in tool room.
> ...


I think you are getting confused over the roles and responsibilities of a toolmaker. First, if you handle projects related to tooling (i.e., in design), it means that you have not been making and repairing actual tools during that period. Whether you think that it is related to tooling is irrelevant, because DIBP will match your current job duties to the nominated occupation roles and responsibilities (which include ongoing work with tools). 

Second and in my opinion, the 6-month training is not relevant because it was more than 10 years ago. Also, your work in the tool room between 2004 to 2005 is alost more than 10 years ago. Essentially, within the last 10 years, you have only worked approximately 1 year in the tool room (i.e., 2006 to June 2007), which is insufficient for the nominated occupation.

In other words, it seems that the CO is saying that you do not have three years of full-time paid employment in the nominated occupation at the required skill level, and/or
at least 12 months of paid employment in the nominated occupation in the last three years.

I think you should consult a migration agent before you respond to the CO. It is not as simple as submitting new affidavit because you provided adverse information - on yourself - during your interview. In fact, I think that your current roles and responsibilities are more comparable to 312511 MECHANICAL ENGINEERING DRAFTSPERSON and the skills assessment body is EA, not TRA.


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## liaqatali.mgi (Oct 12, 2015)

Dear I am here in 323214 metal machinist trade.tell me about your qualification and experience exactly.then lets discuss your case. were you offshore candidate. where you asses your experience in tool make.


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