# Irritating little things about living in Spain



## tonymar

Ok I give in lets start a doom and gloom list

Things I DONT like about Spain

I will start , Again !

Spanish paper work -- hate it always something missing !!

Next please 

Cheers Tony


----------



## jojo

tonymar said:


> Ok I give in lets start a doom and gloom list
> 
> Things I DONT like about Spain
> 
> I will start , Again !
> 
> Spanish paper work -- hate it always something missing !!
> 
> Next please
> 
> Cheers Tony


lol, I used to find those stupid road bumps/sleeping policemen/traffic calming metal bars across the road really irritating and the lack of catseyes. 

Jo xxx


----------



## tonymar

jojo said:


> lol, I used to find those stupid road bumps/sleeping policemen/traffic calming metal bars across the road really irritating and the lack of catseyes.
> 
> Jo xxx


Well done Jo

Keep them coming 

How about the signs that say Carrafour 5 mins and an arrow pointing in a general direction 

And half an hour later you still cant find it !!

Tony


----------



## jojo

tonymar said:


> Well done Jo
> 
> Keep them coming
> 
> How about the signs that say Carrafour 5 mins and an arrow pointing in a general direction
> 
> And half an hour later you still cant find it !!
> 
> Tony


yes directional road signs were always a bit hit and miss - especially with my sense of direction lol

Jo xxx


----------



## tonymar

Rabbitcat said:


> I hate the rule that you must be taxed 90 days before your cars classed as a resident for 180 weeks to claim your CGT with your EHIC


Good one , quite gloomy !, not very exciting -- top marks 



Tony


----------



## el romeral

:rofl:Where do I start lol .

Having to have ID and driving licence with you at all times or risk a hefty fine:frusty:.

Regularly queuing for half an hour or more at the Post Office just to do a simple thing or pick up something:frusty:.

Having my mortgage with a bank which applies the "clauso suelo" and robs me of hundreds of euros a month in excess interest charges:frusty:.

Double/inconsiderate parking :frusty:.

Better leave some for others. Bit gloomy there:eyebrows:.


----------



## Lolito

The expats (commonly named inmigrants) bars that are full of alcoholic inmigrants at 11 a.m. moaning about everything in Spain.


----------



## Pazcat

Lack of cuts of pork with the fat left on and mediocre sausages.


----------



## Justina

I can't think of anything to complain about. Am I missing out on the rich tapestry of living in Spain?


----------



## Lynn R

Litter, dog crap and graffiti, which make a beautiful country less beautiful than it could be.


----------



## DunWorkin

Community of Owners AGM. 

We had ours yesterday and our administrator kept telling us things that are not true and a president that thinks the sun shines out of his ... and who has enough proxy votes to outvote everyone else.


----------



## Alcalaina

Lynn R said:


> Litter, dog crap and graffiti, which make a beautiful country less beautiful than it could be.


I saw far more of all that in the UK when I had to walk through a "park" on the way to work - discarded needles and condoms too.  At least here everything gets cleaned up before I've even had my breakfast.

Some "irritating little things" of my own:


Too many dogs, especially tiny yappy ones.
All the council staff go to breakfast at the same time so there's no-one in the office between 10.00 and 10.45.
Speed cameras where you don't need them and none where you do.
Televisions in bars left on at full volume when nobody's watching.
Cristiano Ronaldo.


----------



## mrypg9

I get annoyed when asked to list my 'likes' and 'dislikes' about Spain. Too busy enjoying my life to give such things a moment's thought.
It reminds me of those Women's Own type questionnaires....'What are your husband's irritating habits?', that kind of thing.


----------



## Lynn R

Alcalaina said:


> I saw far more of all that in the UK when I had to walk through a "park" on the way to work - discarded needles and condoms too.  At least here everything gets cleaned up before I've even had my breakfast.
> 
> Some "irritating little things" of my own:
> 
> 
> Too many dogs, especially tiny yappy ones.
> All the council staff go to breakfast at the same time so there's no-one in the office between 10.00 and 10.45.
> Speed cameras where you don't need them and none where you do.
> Televisions in bars left on at full volume when nobody's watching.
> Cristiano Ronaldo.


They had to put up with Cristiano Ronaldo in the UK for quite a while too, I know because he played for Man U. Big spoilt baby who thinks he's god's gift.


----------



## Lolito

...but he's God's gift? isn't he?


*runs and hides behind sofa*


----------



## 90199

Pillowcks that park on pedestrian crossings.


----------



## Alcalaina

Lolito said:


> ...but he's God's gift? isn't he?


He certainly thinks he is!

Interesting that Messi could have drawn equal with him last night in the _pichichi _(most goals scored in the Liga this season) but let Neymar take a penalty instead.


----------



## Pesky Wesky

I dislike living in Spain for coming up to 30 years, writing posts on a forum about foreigners living in Spain and being considered negative, pessimistic and a manic depressive for merely writing about things I see and live!

Obviously I am very happy with life here, otherwise I wouldn't have stayed so long, but one thing that I cannot reconcile myself to is the amount of money I have to pay to be self employed at 265€ a month.


----------



## Alcalaina

mrypg9 said:


> I get annoyed when asked to list my 'likes' and 'dislikes' about Spain. Too busy enjoying my life to give such things a moment's thought.
> It reminds me of those Women's Own type questionnaires....'What are your husband's irritating habits?', that kind of thing.


They are fun though. I like to see what other people get annoyed about.


----------



## SandraP

I am irritated about the fact I do not live in Spain and cannot experience the little niggles that Spain puts upon the residents.


----------



## 213979

Pesky Wesky said:


> I dislike living in Spain for coming up to 30 years, writing posts on a forum about foreigners living in Spain and being considered negative, pessimistic and a manic depressive for merely writing about things I see and live!
> 
> Obviously I am very happy with life here, otherwise I wouldn't have stayed so long,* but one thing that I cannot reconcile myself to is the amount of money I have to pay to be self employed at 265€ a month*.


My 30 months of reduction just came to an end, right in time for it to be taken out of my maternity leave pay! I'm praying DH gets a full-time _vacante_ next year. If not, I fear I won't be able to take the full 4 month leave. 


EDIT: And 265€ is just the minimum.


----------



## 213979

Alcalaina said:


> They are fun though. I like to see what other people get annoyed about.


Here's one: 

The MASSIVE amount of "I'll scratch my back, but you MUST scratch mine" public works projects and/or blatant political favors going on at the municipal level right now, JUST in time for elections. 

I got very stern with a local politician the other day telling them that I did not want the favor they were trying to give me; if it hasn't happened until now, it can surely wait until later. 

I probably just shot myself in the foot but I do not want ANY part in this foolishness. I know I'm new in town but I am not going to deal with this stupid old-regime open bribery. I am also horribly ticked off that people complain and complain about it but DON'T DO A DARN THING. 

...I can't even vote in _municipales_!!!


----------



## Lolito

C'mon! I want more digs, more irritating spanish things because so far, I can't see anything different to UK, long queues at the Post Office, parking in pedestrian crosses, graffiti, slow dealings with the Town Hall, political favors, corruption, etc, etc. 

uhm....let be more 'original' - I'm waiting.... 

I'll say one thing, as a Spanish person, I really hate that they close 3 hours for the siesta, just when I go out shopping... or wait outside the shop at 5pm to the owner to open and he turns up at 5.30 as if he didn't have a long enough break... pah! (and yessss, this is a Spanish thing!!)


----------



## jojo

Lolito said:


> C'mon! I want more digs, more irritating spanish things because so far, I can't see anything different to UK, long queues at the Post Office, parking in pedestrian crosses, graffiti, slow dealings with the Town Hall, political favors, corruption, etc, etc.
> 
> uhm....let be more 'original' - I'm waiting....
> 
> I'll say one thing, as a Spanish person, I really hate that they close 3 hours for the siesta, just when I go out shopping... or wait outside the shop at 5pm to the owner to open and he turns up at 5.30 as if he didn't have a long enough break... pah! (and yessss, this is a Spanish thing!!)



My dislike of the speed bumps and no catseyes in the middle of the road are different from the UK 

Jo xxx


----------



## Lolito

Lots of speed bumps in Hull where I lived.. especially around council estates! lol!


----------



## jojo

Lolito said:


> Lots of speed bumps in Hull where I lived.. especially around council estates! lol!


But not those nasty metal/hard plastic ones, which are laid on main roads and can really give the car a jolt if you're not fully aware of them and then you get cars swerving onto the wrong side of the road to avoid them - evil things lol!! The ones in the UK are made of tarmac, are very gentle and usually have a damn great arrow on them.

No I dont miss the Spanish ones!

Jo xxx


----------



## Lolito

You are right ,I keep changing my rear light bulbs... they keep falling off and my little mirror needs adjusting every 5kms.. lol!


----------



## tonymar

How quick beer gets warm in the summer

its so annoying !!


----------



## WeeScottie

Just need to drink it quicker x


----------



## tonymar

WeeScottie said:


> Just need to drink it quicker x


Cheers WeeScottie

good advice , I will try my best 

Some bars use glasses from the freezer that helps a little !

all this talk of beer uis making me thirsty 


Tony


----------



## Tigerlillie

Lolito said:


> I'll say one thing, as a Spanish person, *I really hate that they close 3 hours for the siesta, just when I go out shopping... or wait outside the shop at 5pm to the owner to open and he turns up at 5.30 as if he didn't have a long enough break... pah!* (and yessss, this is a Spanish thing!!)


Although I don't live in spain yet this is one I can identify with as it's not only spanish shopkeepers that do this but french ones as well and that's *after* having sunday and monday off and perhaps a wednesday afternoon too


----------



## 213979

Lolito said:


> C'mon! I want more digs, more irritating spanish things because so far, I can't see anything different to UK, long queues at the Post Office, parking in pedestrian crosses, graffiti, slow dealings with the Town Hall, political favors, corruption, etc, etc.
> 
> uhm....let be more 'original' - I'm waiting....
> 
> I'll say one thing, as a Spanish person, I really hate that they close 3 hours for the siesta, just when I go out shopping... or wait outside the shop at 5pm to the owner to open and he turns up at 5.30 as if he didn't have a long enough break... pah! (and yessss, this is a Spanish thing!!)


The pre-election backscratching is new to me. Municipal officials would be strung up by their little toe if they tried this foolishness back in my hometown.


----------



## Pesky Wesky

Lolito said:


> C'mon! I want more digs, more irritating spanish things because so far, I can't see anything different to UK, long queues at the Post Office, parking in pedestrian crosses, graffiti, slow dealings with the Town Hall, political favors, corruption, etc, etc.
> 
> uhm....let be more 'original' - I'm waiting....
> 
> I'll say one thing, as a Spanish person, I really hate that they close 3 hours for the siesta, just when I go out shopping... or wait outside the shop at 5pm to the owner to open and he turns up at 5.30 as if he didn't have a long enough break... pah! (and yessss, this is a Spanish thing!!)


The self employment payment is a definite complaint against Spain. The shop being opened late I agree with, but the smaller shops closing at lunch time doesn't bother me that much. I think they deserve a long break as they do open late in the evenings!
It does annoy me that the average UK high street closes down at 5.30-6.00. Some shops in Weston high street close at 5.00.


----------



## GUAPACHICA

Pesky Wesky said:


> The self employment payment is a definite complaint against Spain. The shop being opened late I agree with, but the smaller shops closing at lunch time doesn't bother me that much. I think they deserve a long break as they do open late in the evenings!
> It does annoy me that the average UK high street closes down at 5.30-6.00. Some shops in Weston high street close at 5.00.


Hi - yes, but it annoys me even more that the Cádiz city Ayuntamiento offices close around one- thirty p.m. - and DON't re-open..! Neither, of course do the offices of our only Electricity and Water companies - but their officials still all take their morning breakfast break together, leaving their poor, long- suffering clients to hang about, watched only by the doorman/security guard, until these 'workers' deign to return, knowing they'll be heading home, having finished for the day, about two whole hours later..!

I have to pay my monthly rent into the Santander bank account of my apartment's agent. This bank will not accept payment by my UK bank's Visa debit card ( obviously, a new- dangled notion..), so I have to pay in the requisite amount of cash! There is never more than one cashier on duty, despite the fact that there are always long queues of weary clients, all, apparently, with the whole morning to spare and nothing pressing to do! 

Every two months, I enter the portals of 'Unicaja' to pay my 'Utilities' bills into the accounts of the two companies concerned. There are, always, at least, a hundred and fifty other clients all there for the same purpose ( we each take a numbered ticket and then wait our turns..), so it might be assumed that this very large and locally prestigious bank would plan ahead and so employ sufficient numbers of staff to take the payments efficiently and speedily. This, of course, cannot happen ( we are speaking of Cádiz, after all, LOL). 

Instead, a single, very irritated and impatient female cashier sits behind her glass panel barking out commands to each of us in turn - so, we shuffle forward, meekly and silently, hoping to be able to pay our bills prior to expiring from the heat and the almost complete lack of air! As Spanish fellow sufferers have explained to me; '' We are much nearer to Africa, here, than to the rest of Europe, so 'customer service' is not yet a priority for Spanish companies based here..!'' The other explanation for the stoic acceptance, by local Spanish residents, of long periods spent waiting around at the behest of some jumped- up minor official, is that the older generation had learnt to keep quiet and avoid being noticed during the 'Franco' years!

It seems that in 21st Century Cádiz, there is still a great reluctance to challenge 'Authority' and 'Bureaucrats', even whilst the 'Gaditanos' are incredibly vocal and assertive, socially - and certainly not averse to standing up for themselves, amongst their friends and neighbours..! 

BTW, Lolito - please don't feel the need to respond to every example given here by claiming that the same occurs within the UK! This is an 'Expat' forum, so our posts are valid for us - as foreigners. I wouldn't necessarily expect to agree with all posts of a similar nature on the UK forum - I'm British and so the 'expat' perspectives would, very probably, be somewhat different from my own - but, as it's their 'expat' forum, they are entitled to post as they see fit, based on their own individual experiences of life in my country - wouldn't you agree?

Saludos, 
GC.


----------



## Lynn R

GUAPACHICA said:


> Hi - yes, but it annoys me even more that the Cádiz city Ayuntamiento offices close around one- thirty p.m. - and DON't re-open..! Neither, of course do the offices of our only Electricity and Water companies - but their officials still all take their morning breakfast break together, leaving their poor, long- suffering clients to hang about, watched only by the doorman/security guard, until these 'workers' deign to return, knowing they'll be heading home, having finished for the day, about two whole hours later..!
> 
> I have to pay my monthly rent into the Santander bank account of my apartment's agent. This bank will not accept payment by my UK bank's Visa debit card ( obviously, a new- dangled notion..), so I have to pay in the requisite amount of cash! There is never more than one cashier on duty, despite the fact that there are always long queues of weary clients, all, apparently, with the whole morning to spare and nothing pressing to do!
> 
> Every two months, I enter the portals of 'Unicaja' to pay my 'Utilities' bills into the accounts of the two companies concerned. There are, always, at least, a hundred and fifty other clients all there for the same purpose ( we each take a numbered ticket and then wait our turns..), so it might be assumed that this very large and locally prestigious bank would plan ahead and so employ sufficient numbers of staff to take the payments efficiently and speedily. This, of course, cannot happen ( we are speaking of Cádiz, after all, LOL).
> 
> Instead, a single, very irritated and impatient female cashier sits behind her glass panel barking out commands to each of us in turn - so, we shuffle forward, meekly and silently, hoping to be able to pay our bills prior to expiring from the heat and the almost complete lack of air! As Spanish fellow sufferers have explained to me; '' We are much nearer to Africa, here, than to the rest of Europe, so 'customer service' is not yet a priority for Spanish companies based here..!'' The other explanation for the stoic acceptance, by local Spanish residents, of long periods spent waiting around at the behest of some jumped- up minor official, is that the older generation had learnt to keep quiet and avoid being noticed during the 'Franco' years!
> 
> It seems that in 21st Century Cádiz, there is still a great reluctance to challenge 'Authority' and 'Bureaucrats', even whilst the 'Gaditanos' are incredibly vocal and assertive, socially - and certainly not averse to standing up for themselves, amongst their friends and neighbours..!
> 
> BTW, Lolito - please don't feel the need to respond to every example given here by claiming that the same occurs within the UK! This is an 'Expat' forum, so our posts are valid for us - as foreigners. I wouldn't necessarily expect to agree with all posts of a similar nature on the UK forum - I'm British and so the 'expat' perspectives would, very probably, be somewhat different from my own - but, as it's their 'expat' forum, they are entitled to post as they see fit, based on their own individual experiences of life in my country - wouldn't you agree?
> 
> Saludos,
> GC.


Totally agree. The fact that bills can only be paid at the bank for a couple of hours on designated days (sometimes feels like every third Wednesday if there's a full moon and an R in the month) is ridiculous. If I didn't pay my utility bills and almost everything else by direct debit I think I'd have lost the will to live by now.

And another thing - the fact that public offices like the Extranjeria or the Ayuntamiento don't have payment facilities for either cash or credit/debit cards so you have to go to the office to submit the paperwork (such as for NIEs, registering as resident, applying for building licences, etc) then make a separate trip to a bank to pay the fee involved and then go back to the public office again to collect whatever it was you wanted. Crazy.


----------



## Lynn R

Lolito said:


> C'mon! I want more digs, more irritating spanish things because so far, I can't see anything different to UK, long queues at the Post Office, parking in pedestrian crosses, graffiti, slow dealings with the Town Hall, political favors, corruption, etc, etc.


I didn't like those things when I lived in the UK either, and if the question had been about irritating things about living in the UK I'd have mentioned them there too. But it wasn't.


----------



## el romeral

When people who live here make out that everything is perfect.


----------



## Alcalaina

elenetxu said:


> Here's one:
> 
> The MASSIVE amount of "I'll scratch my back, but you MUST scratch mine" public works projects and/or blatant political favors going on at the municipal level right now, JUST in time for elections.
> 
> I got very stern with a local politician the other day telling them that I did not want the favor they were trying to give me; if it hasn't happened until now, it can surely wait until later.
> 
> I probably just shot myself in the foot but I do not want ANY part in this foolishness. I know I'm new in town but I am not going to deal with this stupid old-regime open bribery. I am also horribly ticked off that people complain and complain about it but DON'T DO A DARN THING.
> 
> ...I can't even vote in _municipales_!!!


Corruption's not an Irritating Little Thing though. It's a Big Stinky Thing.


----------



## Pazcat

GUAPACHICA said:


> It seems that in 21st Century Cádiz, there is still a great reluctance to challenge 'Authority' and 'Bureaucrats', even whilst the 'Gaditanos' are incredibly vocal and assertive, socially - and certainly not averse to standing up for themselves, amongst their friends and neighbours..!
> 
> GC.


Well it's not just Cadiz if it makes you feel any better. What is probably more annoying than the actual shoddy systems, opening hours, etc... is the reluctance to actually fix it. 

As tax payers you should have rights, as consumers you are keeping people in jobs and are paying all these peoples wages so how is it acceptable that it has gotten to a stage where if you ever want to do anything you have to run a gauntlet of officialdom to only discover that the correct paperwork you needed was in the bottom of a locked filing cabinet stuck in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door saying 'Beware of the Leopard'.
It's a very odd way of doing things and a huge waste of taxpayer money. It's not normal and the less said about the house purchasing process the better.


----------



## Helenameva

Lynn R said:


> Totally agree. The fact that bills can only be paid at the bank for a couple of hours on designated days (sometimes feels like every third Wednesday if there's a full moon and an R in the month) is ridiculous. If I didn't pay my utility bills and almost everything else by direct debit I think I'd have lost the will to live by now.
> 
> And another thing - the fact that public offices like the Extranjeria or the Ayuntamiento don't have payment facilities for either cash or credit/debit cards so you have to go to the office to submit the paperwork (such as for NIEs, registering as resident, applying for building licences, etc) then make a separate trip to a bank to pay the fee involved and then go back to the public office again to collect whatever it was you wanted. Crazy.


Banks here are bonkers. The nearest small town to me has a population of 12,000. You can walk from one side of the centre to the other in 30 minutes, yet all of the major banks have 3 or 4 branches dotted around and in all of them you have to queue a minimum of 20 minutes before you are seen to. I say queue, it is more a bunch of irate people standing / sitting / chatting / fanning themselves / getting irate. When entering, if you forget to ask who is last in the queue you'll have trouble. Quite often, the person in front of you is doing something that can be done at a machine, or collecting some free gifts because they've got lots of points they've collected, and the guy behind the desk has to wade through a thousand boxes of goodies to see which one has the the iron or toaster or whatever has been ordered. But no kettles, never any kettles, why aren't there any kettles? What kind of country doesn't need kettles? Or pork pies. OMFG. Bonkers.


----------



## Turtles

The peculiar rules relating to lane use on roundabouts + the Guardia Civil believing that roundabouts are a safe place for them to park.


----------



## Pazcat

And delivery companies that don't actually deliver.


----------



## The Skipper

Sandflies and mosquitos (although, to be fair, I´m not now bothered by the midges that used to drive me mad in the UK!)


----------



## Isobella

Customer service, or should I say the lack of. Why is it so difficult to return goods, especially if they are faulty.


----------



## Tigerlillie

Wow just...Wow. How is it you guys don't have nervous breakdowns?


----------



## Helenameva

Tigerlillie said:


> Wow just...Wow. How is it you guys don't have nervous breakdowns?


Because the mental health service here is sh*te.


----------



## Brangus

One peeve of mine is something that I call "The Manchegan Twice-Over." It's always females who do this: Stone-faced, they look you in the eye, pause, then slowly lower their eyes down to your shoes, where they pause again, then slowly travel back up your body with their eyes. It ends with a slight sneer and possibly a raised eyebrow before she turns away.

Maybe it's a local thing...? I know I need to "get a life," but ¡No me gusta!


----------



## snikpoh

Brangus said:


> One peeve of mine is something that I call "The Manchegan Twice-Over." It's always females who do this: Stone-faced, they look you in the eye, pause, then slowly lower their eyes down to your shoes, where they pause again, then slowly travel back up your body with their eyes. It ends with a slight sneer and possibly a raised eyebrow before she turns away.
> 
> Maybe it's a local thing...? I know I need to "get a life," but ¡No me gusta!


Have you thought about changing your shoes - or maybe dress differently?


----------



## Pesky Wesky

Brangus said:


> One peeve of mine is something that I call "The Manchegan Twice-Over." It's always females who do this: Stone-faced, they look you in the eye, pause, then slowly lower their eyes down to your shoes, where they pause again, then slowly travel back up your body with their eyes. It ends with a slight sneer and possibly a raised eyebrow before she turns away.
> 
> Maybe it's a local thing...? I know I need to "get a life," but ¡No me gusta!


Are you sure it's a sneer? Many people look people up and down in the Madrid area, but I woulwouldn't say they're sneering, just observing in a more open manner than other nationalities do!


----------



## Isobella

Lynn R said:


> Totally agree. The fact that bills can only be paid at the bank for a couple of hours on designated days (sometimes feels like every third Wednesday if there's a full moon and an R in the month) is ridiculous. If I didn't pay my utility bills and almost everything else by direct debit I think I'd have lost the will to live by now.
> 
> And another thing - the fact that public offices like the Extranjeria or the Ayuntamiento don't have payment facilities for either cash or credit/debit cards so you have to go to the office to submit the paperwork (such as for NIEs, registering as resident, applying for building licences, etc) then make a separate trip to a bank to pay the fee involved and then go back to the public office again to collect whatever it was you wanted. Crazy.


It has improved now with direct debit. I remember our first attempt to pay IBI many, many years ago. Firstly no bills were sent out, they had to be collected at the officia de redacion. This involved a queue of hundreds of people. Just when you thought you were close to the front a few would turn up and say they were behind their mates
Having finally got the bill we had to go to a bank to pay it and our local bank wasn't listed as a recipient. Foolishly we decided to take cash instead of a cheque. Car journey to bank where we were informed that the bank did not take cash for these payments...eh! I said what sort of a bank doesn't take cash but made no difference. Another car journey for cheque book and voila...paid. You don't know you're born these days.


----------



## Lynn R

Isobella said:


> It has improved now with direct debit. I remember our first attempt to pay IBI many, many years ago. Firstly no bills were sent out, they had to be collected at the officia de redacion. This involved a queue of hundreds of people. Just when you thought you were close to the front a few would turn up and say they were behind their mates
> Having finally got the bill we had to go to a bank to pay it and our local bank wasn't listed as a recipient. Foolishly we decided to take cash instead of a cheque. Car journey to bank where we were informed that the bank did not take cash for these payments...eh! I said what sort of a bank doesn't take cash but made no difference. Another car journey for cheque book and voila...paid. You don't know you're born these days.


Obviously not. I confess, I just don't understand the people I know who refuse to pay by direct debit and are willing to put up with this treatment (apart from anything else, I don't get up early enough to get to the bank by 10.30 when they stop taking payments), I just couldn't stand it. Maybe perpetuating this system is a cunning plan by the banks to force everybody to move to direct debits, a form of psychological torture.


----------



## Pazcat

Why do people put up with it though? 
That is what gets under my skin.


----------



## Lynn R

Pazcat said:


> Why do people put up with it though?
> That is what gets under my skin.


I think they're slowly getting less willing to put up with it. We were in the bank a few months ago when there were long queues and a Spanish lady stormed into the Manager's office and gave him a real earful, after which he emerged rather red faced, took his jacket off and went behind the counter and started serving customers. Wonderful to watch!


----------



## Justina

*Why do people put up with it?*



Pazcat said:


> Why do people put up with it though?
> That is what gets under my skin.


I had a neighbour in Mexico who was 'feliz de la vida' in queues Her pension could have been deposited in her account and likewise her telephone, electricty and whatever bill could have been paid, but no, she preferred to chitter chatter in queues.
I don't see much difference here.


----------



## GUAPACHICA

Justina said:


> I had a neighbour in Mexico who was 'feliz de la vida' in queues Her pension could have been deposited in her account and likewise her telephone, electricty and whatever bill could have been paid, but no, she preferred to chitter chatter in queues.
> I don't see much difference here.


Hi all - well, I certainly don't enjoy standing about in queues. In fact, tomorrow morning I've to face the 'Unicaja' tedium again, as it's time to pay the 'Luz y agua' bills, once more! 

My reasons for refusing to set up direct debits are twofold; firstly, on arrival in Andalucía, a few years ago, I heard an expat. Radio station warning Malaga listeners to check their bank accounts. An Electricity company had extracted large sums of money from several of its clients' accounts ( three thousand euros, in one case..), causing all sorts of mayhem with their finances! The excuse given was 'a computer glitch' which sounded plausible - but then, the company began to drag its feet, when requested to repay the dosh! 

It took a few months, significant group pressure and the oxygen of adverse publicity before most clients were reimbursed - and, as they made clear, in the radio broadcast, not all of them were financially well- heeled enough to cope, even with the temporary loss of large sums from their bank accounts! All were planning to shut down their 'direct debit' arrangements with the company concerned and to pay bills with cash, only, in future..! I was very affected by their plight - which was still unresolved by the time I left the city.

In Cádiz, I did, nonetheless, agree to paying via 'direct debits' for both 'Utilities.' However, I soon discovered that this was a big mistake, on my part - because each of the two companies took funds out of my bank account on unspecified dates, for unspecified amounts, without my having had sight of the bills concerned or any notification of the chosen dates! It seemed that they were entitled, by virtue of the 'direct debit' instruction to do just that... In subsequent discussion with my bank manager, I learnt that this was 'normal' practice for the two 'Utility' companies - and that most customers ''simply accepted it', rather than make a fuss! 

In my case, I preferred to shut down both 'DD's and to pay by cash - however stultifying the queueing process would certainly be..! 

One further point - I was advised by a Cádiz resident, during the last 'Unicaja' experience, that 'the bank would be well aware that many queueing, on that day, would be paying bills with cash because they had no bank accounts ( due, probably, to the effects of 'El Crisis', whether being unemployed or lowly paid, full/part time workers, although many were , clearly, very elderly)! 

The clear implication was that the bank would be entirely uninterested in the level of discomfort and time- wasting inflicted upon these people by its interminable queues. so would fail to act on any complaints received...! Therefore, in preferring to pay by cash, for electricity and water, I really feel solidarity with the hundreds of clients who haven't the luxury of making a choice - and whom the Unicaja bank appears to be treating in a manner which seems both dismissive and callous! 

Saludos, GC.


----------



## Justina

*Direct debit*

Santander and BBVA both have machines where one can pay utility bills and various others automatically without standing in the queues. Natch, they give a receipt and change.


----------



## Lynn R

Justina said:


> Santander and BBVA both have machines where one can pay utility bills and various others automatically without standing in the queues. Natch, they give a receipt and change.


Now that is a good idea. I suppose there could still be some people who don't like to use machines (my 90 year old aunt won't even use the cash machine but gets one of us to draw her money out for her).


----------



## Pazcat

Maybe, just maybe utility companies can broaden their horizons slightly and allow online payments and banks can actually let you do some banking.
No doubt there will always be some who oppose such a thing but I don't see any reasonable excuse not to be able to pay your bills, fines etc... online.
Seems to work elsewhere.


----------



## Alcalaina

Pazcat said:


> Maybe, just maybe utility companies can broaden their horizons slightly and allow online payments and banks can actually let you do some banking.
> No doubt there will always be some who oppose such a thing but I don't see any reasonable excuse not to be able to pay your bills, fines etc... online.
> Seems to work elsewhere.


I'm confused, which bills CAN'T you pay online?  I've never come across one. Even our ayuntamiento bills can be done online now, though it does involve keying in a 24-digit number that you need a magnifying glass to read.


----------



## Pazcat

Then what is with all the queing at the bank and grizzling about it?

I can understand people not wanting a direct debit but if you can pay with any card you own or via paypal then that takes the risk out of it.


----------



## Alcalaina

GUAPACHICA said:


> Hi all - well, I certainly don't enjoy standing about in queues. In fact, tomorrow morning I've to face the 'Unicaja' tedium again, as it's time to pay the 'Luz y agua' bills, once more!


You can pay the agua etc. by bank transfer on the Diputación de Cadiz website.
https://sprygt.dipucadiz.es/

But it might take nearly as long as queueing in the bank.


----------



## Lolito

I pay everything online, been years since I went inside a bank, I remember while living in the UK I had to spend my lunch hour queueing at the bank or Post Office to pay bills, so decided to do it all online, I don't know the queues in Spanish banks as I never go to any. 

I miss the 'cash-back' facility in Spain.. Pah!


----------



## Pesky Wesky

We also pay everything on line, but you do have to be on top of it and check those statements!


----------



## Lynn R

Pesky Wesky said:


> We also pay everything on line, but you do have to be on top of it and check those statements!


You do, but I like the facility there is here whereby if you notify the bank within 2 weeks that a direct debit has been taken from your account which you did not want to pay, they will take the money back and recredit it to your account. I did that when an insurance company took the annual premium from my account after I'd sent them the required 2 months' notice in writing that I didn't want to renew the policy, and it worked well. I don't know if that also applies to the utility companies or not.


----------



## Pesky Wesky

Lynn R said:


> You do, but I like the facility there is here whereby if you notify the bank within 2 weeks that a direct debit has been taken from your account which you did not want to pay, they will take the money back and recredit it to your account. I did that when an insurance company took the annual premium from my account after I'd sent them the required 2 months' notice in writing that I didn't want to renew the policy, and it worked well. I don't know if that also applies to the utility companies or not.


Yes, that is a great thing to have up your sleeve and that I'd forgotten about. OH (who is in charge of bills) has used it on occasion, but can't remember for what bills


----------



## GUAPACHICA

Justina said:


> Santander and BBVA both have machines where one can pay utility bills and various others automatically without standing in the queues. Natch, they give a receipt and change.


Hi - Unicaja is the nominated bank for cash payments to both Cádiz ciudad 'Utility ' companies! This morning, I was number 224 and whilst waiting for the queue to lessen, I was able to go for a coffee and buy a Spanish language keyboard in the 'GoldenMac' shop. I still had to hang out in the bank, along with a hundred other remaining unfortunates, for two more hours..!

As always, the 'assistente' was baleful and impatient; yet, during my 'turn' at her counter. she decided to make a couple of phone calls, with no word to me, so I simply waited, helpless, for my receipt, until she'd decided to finish!

To anyone here who thinks this is acceptable customer service, could I please invite you to visit my UK bank, in Kingston, where you will join a very short queue, if any, before being greeted, very pleasantly, by one of three ( minimum) counter assistants? On completion of your business, you'd be asked if there is anything else with which she/he might help you, before being bidden '' Good day!'' 
Thus, the whole experience would be pleasant, rather than infuriating, as in Unicaja, Cádiz! 

I find the implied assumption that such appalling customer service is acceptable, in Spain, to be insulting both to my Spanish friends ( who feel just as annoyed by such poor service as I do) and to myself - I love life in Spain, but this thread is about the things which we DON'T like - blatant rudeness towards bank customers is one of those, in my case! 

Re. Banco de Santander, I have asked to be able to pay my monthly rent via one of the machines, but have been refused ( no reason given), so have no choice but to queue, as my flat's agent has her account in that bank. Inside, there are two counters, one for 'clientes' and the other for ' non- clientes' like myself. The queue for the latter is always much lengthier, as many bills are paid, in person, at that desk.

Santander is a major international bank with branches also in the UK. There is absolutely no reason that the same level of customer service should not be available in Spain as in my country. Re. Unicaja, I believe that this bank needs to up its game, in both Recruitment and in Staff Training. Its Spanish clients should expect no less than I do, as a 'guiri - and those who had to wait long hours in that bank today were certainly no more happy than me!

Saludos, GC


----------



## Tilley

Lolito said:


> C'mon! I want more digs, more irritating spanish things because so far, I can't see anything different to UK, long queues at the Post Office, parking in pedestrian crosses, graffiti, slow dealings with the Town Hall, political favors, corruption, etc, etc.
> 
> uhm....let be more 'original' - I'm waiting....
> 
> I'll say one thing, as a Spanish person, I really hate that they close 3 hours for the siesta, just when I go out shopping... or wait outside the shop at 5pm to the owner to open and he turns up at 5.30 as if he didn't have a long enough break... pah! (and yessss, this is a Spanish thing!!)


This made me lol re the parking on a zebra crossing in the UK thing. You can't have been to the UK for yonks as if you park on a zebra crossing (or the zigzagy things either side ) you would have someone plonk an 80 quid fine on you in a nano second lol and if you didn't pay it in a week it would double and the next thing you would be up infront of the beak.


So maybe the more flexible parking in Spain is a kind of positive - Opps wrong thread, I was reading the positive thread until I clicked the link to here.


----------



## baldilocks

I've just read through ALL the posts on this thread. What a miserable moaning lot you are!

Bank queues - what queues? maybe one or two in front of you with whom you haven't had a chat for ages.
Can't pay this or that in the bank? - no problems, can pay anything and have DDs with no difficulty.
Speed bumps? - no problem provided you reduce your speed, which is what they are there for.
Vehicles double 'parking' while the driver has a chat? - you can't meet up with everybody in the bank or at the health centre.
Customer service? - no problems, we always get good service, even in the post-office now (but there is a secret!)

Relax, don't be in such a hurry, life is too short to be forever rushing about and getting yourself all worked up. One of the reasons we moved here was to get rid of stress.

  :relax:


----------



## gus-lopez

GUAPACHICA said:


> Santander is a major international bank with branches also in the UK. There is absolutely no reason that the same level of customer service should not be available in Spain as in my country.
> 
> Saludos, GC


The 2 of them . apart from being run by the same dubious family , have no connection with each other. The staff here all appear to be trained at the same appallingly low level. 
The one occasion I had to use them was enough for me.


----------



## Pazcat

The constant food poisonings.

https://au.totaltravel.yahoo.com/ne...you-re-most-likely-to-get-food-poisoning-are/


----------



## Isobella

Hmm. I wonder how many of those "food poisonings" are through sun and booze.

I had a bad case in Turkey many years ago. Some local places I know I wouldn't eat their tapas as I know they fill up the leftovers from the day before.


----------



## baldilocks

Pazcat said:


> The constant food poisonings.
> 
> https://au.totaltravel.yahoo.com/ne...you-re-most-likely-to-get-food-poisoning-are/


They are re-running something that was in the Express, a newspaper that enjoys publishing stories of doubtful provenance.


----------



## Isobella

It was in the Mail too. Obviously a press release from some org wanting a mention


----------



## Pazcat

They were reporting on a survey done by a law firm which was picked up by a number of different papers, websites.
The express was not the source.

British holidaymakers sick of food poisoning


----------



## baldilocks

Irritating things? 

Newspapers that insist on publishing stories about Spain that have little or no truth in order to boost demand for their rag, be it to boost sales revenue or, in the case of freebies, advertising revenue. They have no thought for the impact such stories have on the gullible public who then do not travel or change their travel plans so that businesses, and the people they employ, who depend on tourists for their livelihood are left struggling.

People who pick up on those stories and believe them hook line and sinker, retell them and even adapt them to include themselves as victims (Munchausen's syndrome).


----------



## Pazcat

lol


----------



## Lynn R

Pazcat said:


> The constant food poisonings.
> 
> https://au.totaltravel.yahoo.com/ne...you-re-most-likely-to-get-food-poisoning-are/


I am a victim! I once ate mussels in Mallorca and spent about the next 5 days confined to either my bed or the bathroom. However, it was about 25 years ago. Can I still sell my story to the Mail or the Express, do you think? Probably. They can just leave out that unimportant detail.


----------



## Pazcat

I had food poisoning from mussels in France, it's the second sickest I have ever felt and don't think I have the stomach for mussels again now.
No idea if I have been sick here from food or not, we rarely eat out anyway.


----------



## Pesky Wesky

Pazcat said:


> The constant food poisonings.
> 
> https://au.totaltravel.yahoo.com/ne...you-re-most-likely-to-get-food-poisoning-are/


Whilst I'm sure there are a lot of incidences of food poisoning in Spain the large number of visitors that it receives should also be taken into account. What I mean is that there are so many more visitors to Spain than Turkey or Croatia for example that there are bound to be more cases here.


----------



## Isobella

Pazcat said:


> They were reporting on a survey done by a law firm which was picked up by a number of different papers, websites.
> The express was not the source.
> 
> British holidaymakers sick of food poisoning


Hmmm ambulance chasing!

What about cruise ships too.


----------



## Alcalaina

Pazcat said:


> They were reporting on a survey done by a law firm which was picked up by a number of different papers, websites.
> The express was not the source.
> 
> British holidaymakers sick of food poisoning


It puts Spain at the top of the list of places for getting sick abroad. It doesn't say that only applies to food poisoning, just that Spain is top of the list for medical insurance claims. Could that be because more people go to Spain than anywhere else? How many of them are down to sunburn, heatstroke or too much alcohol? I've never got food poisoning here, ever, or known anyone who has.


----------



## passiflora

My gripe is the staff at my local Mercadona. It is not unusual for the person serving me to talk loudly to another cashier, nonstop, while processing my shopping and my payment as though I'm invisible and then do exactly the same with the next customer. At the Consum supermarket on an English urbanisation, the staff are completely different and smile, say hello, good morning or whatever and then thank you as you go.


----------



## Isobel

*online bills?*



Alcalaina said:


> You can pay the agua etc. by bank transfer on the Diputación de Cadiz website.
> 
> sprygt.dipucadiz.es
> 
> But it might take nearly as long as queueing in the bank.


I pay my agua/IBI bills via this url, but does anyone know if you can view/download the bills online as I never seem to receive them and always incur a penalty.
Thank you


----------



## Andrew_tyrrell

Zebra crossings at the entrance and exits or roundabouts. Lack of indicators, middle lane driving and undertaking.
I age everytime I drive on a motorway.


----------



## Alcalaina

Isobel said:


> I pay my agua/IBI bills via this url, but does anyone know if you can view/download the bills online as I never seem to receive them and always incur a penalty.
> Thank you


Hi neighbour!

No you can't view them online. Your Ayuntamiento website should have the dates when everything is due, so it's your "civic duty" to check and find out.  They don't send bills to remind you, only after it's overdue. Direct debit is much simpler!


----------



## baldilocks

Alcalaina said:


> Hi neighbour!
> 
> No you can't view them online. Your Ayuntamiento website should have the dates when everything is due, so it's your "civic duty" to check and find out.  They don't send bills to remind you, only after it's overdue. Direct debit is much simpler!


Cheapskates (the Ayuntamiento, not you)! We have D/D and still get bills to say what is due and when - no problems.


----------



## Lynn R

baldilocks said:


> Cheapskates (the Ayuntamiento, not you)! We have D/D and still get bills to say what is due and when - no problems.


Yes, so do we.


----------



## Trubrit

Hepa said:


> Pillowcks that park on pedestrian crossings.


Do you have pedestrian crossings on El hierro or for that matter, Roads?


----------



## Elyles

What drives me nuts here in Jaca is the tourists in August who constantly blow through the zebra crossings with blinders on. I often look to see if they are looking in their rear view mirror when I flip them off or if they have their window down hen I call them a gilipollas.


----------



## baldilocks

Elyles said:


> What drives me nuts here in Jaca is the tourists in August who constantly blow through the zebra crossings with blinders on. I often look to see if they are looking in their rear view mirror when I flip them off or if they have their window down hen I call them a gilipollas.


It must be where you live. Generally here we find that pedestrian crossing discipline is quite good, if frustrating.


----------



## Elyles

It is where we live. The weekenders here have little respect for anything but the locals are very respectful. Jaca, normally 12000, swells to 40,000 in August but it is only for one month. A friend owns a frutería and complains constantly about customers not respecting the (do not handle the fruit ) signs or sampling the fruit. This place is a madhouse in August with all the second home people. The rest of the year makes up for it though. For 11 months we have very few vecinos.


----------



## Rabbitcat

Haven't moved there yet but on my various visits I really find the bloody shop hours very annoying!! I take my hat off to those who aren't irked by the opening times!!!! Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!!!!!


----------



## passiflora

Rabbitcat said:


> Haven't moved there yet but on my various visits I really find the bloody shop hours very annoying!! I take my hat off to those who aren't irked by the opening times!!!!


Like everything else, you get used to it. In larger shopping centres (and the pharmacia in our village!) opening hours do not include a siesta.


----------



## Elyles

The horarios ( opening hours and schedules). Are only an inconvenience when first here and you go out to buy something at 2pm and you forget.


----------



## jimenato

Elyles said:


> It is where we live. The weekenders here have little respect for anything but the locals are very respectful. Jaca, normally 12000, swells to 40,000 in August but it is only for one month. A friend owns a frutería and complains constantly about customers not respecting the (do not handle the fruit ) signs or sampling the fruit. This place is a madhouse in August with all the second home people. The rest of the year makes up for it though. For 11 months we have very few vecinos.


I'm hoping that Spanish drivers are warned when they go to the UK that pedestrians have right of way on crossings - they don't appear to in Spain.

Also, like roundabouts, crossings are seen as a handy place to park.

And the pavement just by the crossings is just the right place for the old boys to stand and chat and smoke - looking for all the world like they are about to cross - but they're not.


----------



## Elyles

I doubt they care! Pedestrians have the right of way here too but a few think the rules don't apply to them


----------



## Pazcat

passiflora said:


> Like everything else, you get used to it. In larger shopping centres (and the pharmacia in our village!) opening hours do not include a siesta.


I doubt I will ever come to terms with it although thankfully living in or near a larger town like Alicante you can generally find something open depending on what you are after.
But it is disappointing to go sofa shopping or looking at floorboards or something a bit specialist on a Saturday afternoon and nothing is open between 12 and 5pm. 

Still siestas and weekend shopping aside what is even more baffling are the, banks, town halls and other public services(I use the term loosely) that only open for 4 hours a day on a weekday and often the particular department you need or guy to talk to is only there once a week.
Fine I guess if you have nowt better to do but if you work then you need to take time off just to do a simple task.


----------



## Pesky Wesky

Pazcat said:


> Still siestas and weekend shopping aside what is even more baffling are the, banks, town halls and other public services(I use the term loosely) that only open for 4 hours a day on a weekday and often the particular department you need or guy to talk to is only there once a week.
> Fine I guess if you have nowt better to do but if you work then you need to take time off just to do a simple task.


4 hours a day?
That's unusual.
It's usually 8:30 - 14:30/ 15:00.

I've just seen that the summer time table is 9:00 - 13:30, Sat 9:00 - 13:00


----------



## Desiato

Keeping with the driving theme...

Having to look through your sun roof or peer at a 90' angle through your steering wheel to see when the lights have changed. 

Driving through the town centre with your eyes peeled so that you don't mow down the young pedestrian lemmings. These town dwelling creatures spend most of their time hanging around lorries that are parked either side of a crossing. As you approach they march straight out in front of you and give you the stern "hey, I'm crossing here!" look as you screech to a stop. 

Then there are the sloth crosses. These are a cousin of the lemmings in that they also tend to be young but this bread are hypnotised by the small flat shiny object that they hold in front of their face. They shuffle across the road at an average speed of 2 miles a day and any attempt to communicate with them through waving, shaking of the head or throwing your arms up in the air will be futile as is any form of verbal communication as they have their ears plugged to negate this very possibility.


----------



## Pazcat

The 4 hours is our new Town Hall so I was using that as an example, 10am till 2pm weekdays only. But yes it does vary depending on where exactly you need to go. Even still those times are not great though.

And another thing that drives me to despair is emails or lack of use of them.


----------



## passiflora

Spanish websites I often find difficult to use.


----------



## Desiato

Ok, can’t shop in the afternoon, meh, queuing at the bank, sigh, having to take time off to see the guy at the town hall that is only there for half an hour a week, yawn…..I think you guys haven’t fully grasped what is REALLY annoying about life in Spain….the TV adverts!!!

In the UK I got pretty good at guessing how long the ad break would be and could channel hop until my internal clock said “your 3 minutes are up, time to go back” and sure enough, I’d hit the sweet spot where they were just about to fade back in. But seriously, who in the name of the Lord is in charge of the adverts in Spain? I’ve noticed on one channel that there are two lengths to the ad breaks, 6 minutes (which they will happily tell you) and 15 minutes (which they don’t). They clearly have never heard of the fade button and I used to think this was a deliberate ploy to keep you tuned. They would go to the adverts half way through a sentence, something like “So in light of all the evidence it is my conclusion that the murderer is….merca-dooooona, merca-dona!” aaahhhh!! The problem was, after 15 minutes of ads the program would restart so abruptly that you would miss what he said. But that’s not the most annoying thing, oh no!

Having come back from the adverts I spotted how long the program was on for before going back to the ads. “Can you believe it, that was maybe 4 minutes of program?”, then it was two minutes and then we had the “one program break to rule them all!”…..5 seconds!!!!! So having waited 15 minutes for the program to restart, there were 5 seconds of show and then another 15 minutes of ads…..ahhhhhhhhh!!!!

It was then that I came to the only logical conclusion which was that the person in charge of when the advert breaks started and finished was in fact a cat, walking across a keyboard. No human would have 5 seconds of show sandwiched between 30 minutes of adverts and as lovable as they are, they make rubbish TV controllers.


----------



## el romeral

Agree about the Spanish websites. They are rubbish. Why do they have to put everything into catagories and then sub catagories? 
Also the adverts on Nova & Neox, as mentioned are unbelievable. Just about at the end of a program then without warning, 7 minutes of adverts. Then program ends and then loads more adverts.
When they show a film, you have no chance to see the credits, incase you wanted to see who was in it etc. Cut and straight to the ads.


----------



## Alcalaina

I think the thing with the ads on those commercial TDT channels is that they are all owned by the same company (Mediaset?) and the same ads are shown on all of them at the same time.

I get round this by downloading the series I want to watch from torrent sites and watching them ad-free in my own time.

I use IMDB to check the cast of the movies.

There's always a solution ...


----------



## baldilocks

Alcalaina said:


> I think the thing with the ads on those commercial TDT channels is that they are all owned by the same company (Mediaset?) and the same ads are shown on all of them at the same time.
> 
> I get round this by downloading the series I want to watch from torrent sites and watching them ad-free in my own time.
> 
> I use IMDB to check the cast of the movies.
> 
> There's always a solution ...


The ad problem is, in my opinion, an American phenomenon, however, Spanish TV was pulled up about the quantity of commercial breaks which often used to be every few minutes so they created fewer but longer batches of ads. I vaguely recall there being an "ad" with a little dog complaining about the advertisements. Anyone else have more info on that?


----------



## Madliz

baldilocks said:


> The ad problem is, in my opinion, an American phenomenon, however, Spanish TV was pulled up about the quantity of commercial breaks which often used to be every few minutes so they created fewer but longer batches of ads. I vaguely recall there being an "ad" with a little dog complaining about the advertisements. Anyone else have more info on that?


The one which comes to mind was quite famous at the time, about the dog packing up and leaving because his best friend would only sit and watch tv. Is this the one you were thinking of?


----------



## baldilocks

Madliz said:


> The one which comes to mind was quite famous at the time, about the dog packing up and leaving because his best friend would only sit and watch tv. Is this the one you were thinking of?
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qEQhLDEmJXM


it might be, I thought that the one I'd heard of involved something like a Jack Russell and was against the ads - I don't watch TV myself so I only pick up on things on the side.


----------



## Pazcat

el romeral said:


> Agree about the Spanish websites. They are rubbish. Why do they have to put everything into catagories and then sub catagories?


I don't know, this one is a bit good. Not entirely sure it's totally Spanish but it well could be.
Best Spanish Websites
I guess we should be thankful they have a website at all. I do wish they wouldn't put a contact form on their website though when they have no intention of using it.


----------



## baldilocks

Pazcat said:


> I don't know, this one is a bit good. Not entirely sure it's totally Spanish but it well could be.
> Best Spanish Websites
> I guess we should be thankful they have a website at all. I do wish they wouldn't put a contact form on their website though when they have no intention of using it.


Part way down the page you get:
"n.b.: The translation below was done with an online translator"
and this is a website telling you about language learnings? Go figure!


----------



## jcarlos165

Speaking loudly


----------



## passiflora

jcarlos165 said:


> Speaking loudly


Speaking loudly is very common ! The more people the louder they become. Also, when trying to get their meaning across to a foreigner (moi ) some of my Spanish friends feel the need to almost shout at me as if their raised voice will help me understand better and I have to put a finger to my lips to get them to shush a bit which they always laugh at!


----------



## Andrew_tyrrell

jcarlos165 said:


> Speaking loudly


Interrupting, the Spanish can do that at an Olympic level.

While shouting of course.


----------



## Andrew_tyrrell

Desiato said:


> Ok, can’t shop in the afternoon, meh, queuing at the bank, sigh, having to take time off to see the guy at the town hall that is only there for half an hour a week, yawn…..I think you guys haven’t fully grasped what is REALLY annoying about life in Spain….the TV adverts!!!
> 
> In the UK I got pretty good at guessing how long the ad break would be and could channel hop until my internal clock said “your 3 minutes are up, time to go back” and sure enough, I’d hit the sweet spot where they were just about to fade back in. But seriously, who in the name of the Lord is in charge of the adverts in Spain? I’ve noticed on one channel that there are two lengths to the ad breaks, 6 minutes (which they will happily tell you) and 15 minutes (which they don’t). They clearly have never heard of the fade button and I used to think this was a deliberate ploy to keep you tuned. They would go to the adverts half way through a sentence, something like “So in light of all the evidence it is my conclusion that the murderer is….merca-dooooona, merca-dona!” aaahhhh!! The problem was, after 15 minutes of ads the program would restart so abruptly that you would miss what he said. But that’s not the most annoying thing, oh no!
> 
> Having come back from the adverts I spotted how long the program was on for before going back to the ads. “Can you believe it, that was maybe 4 minutes of program?”, then it was two minutes and then we had the “one program break to rule them all!”…..5 seconds!!!!! So having waited 15 minutes for the program to restart, there were 5 seconds of show and then another 15 minutes of ads…..ahhhhhhhhh!!!!
> 
> It was then that I came to the only logical conclusion which was that the person in charge of when the advert breaks started and finished was in fact a cat, walking across a keyboard. No human would have 5 seconds of show sandwiched between 30 minutes of adverts and as lovable as they are, they make rubbish TV controllers.


Volvemos en 8374 minutos...


----------



## Lolito

at least here in Spain, you can walk the dog, take the rubbish with you, have a good shower and make a cup of tea and a spanish omelette while the ads are on....


----------



## baldilocks

Lolito said:


> at least here in Spain, you can walk the dog, take the rubbish with you, have a good shower and make a cup of tea and a spanish omelette while the ads are on....


So, for some of you, it's not all bad then! I don't watch TV so I have to do all those things in *my own* time.


----------



## Desiato

Lolito said:


> at least here in Spain, you can walk the dog, take the rubbish with you, have a good shower and make a cup of tea and a spanish omelette while the ads are on....


Now THAT'S what I call positive thinking!


----------



## Gazeebo

Pazcat said:


> Lack of cuts of pork with the fat left on and mediocre sausages.


Yeah, well, just had Sainsburys Finest Cumberland port sausages - lovely. Even better by miles are our local butcher's. Yummy yummy! I suppose I will have to live without sausages from October. 

I'll let you know what I find irritating about Spain once I dock in October.


----------



## baldilocks

Gazeebo said:


> Yeah, well, just had Sainsburys Finest Cumberland port sausages - lovely. Even better by miles are our local butcher's. Yummy yummy! I suppose I will have to live without sausages from October.


Sausages - always make my own, have done for years, even back in UK. At least I know what has gone into them.


----------



## Pesky Wesky

Gazeebo said:


> I suppose I will have to live without sausages from October.


You can get sausages from the butcher's here, but I don't expect they taste the same as British ones.


----------



## Escapecommittee

*Foreigners in Spain!*

Hi first post here for me. Irritating are the folks who come on holiday to our urbanisation in the far west of Spain. On the other hand it might be the people who rent out their properties that irritate. Suddenly in July and August we are surrounded with other people's dogs and other people's children. Everyone wants to party around the pool. The rules of the Manzana are ignored and unenforced, therefore pointless. How would these people feel if I stood next to their workplace (I work from home) and shouted, partied, played football? Doh!

Anyway good thing is that we are now looking for a country property near CDS where we can become hermits  The alternative is to go back to the UK. Hmmm maybe not!


----------



## passiflora

I find the sausages here,from English butchers, yuck. Some Spanish ones are pretty good but most are not to my taste. Some things, I think you've really got to be born Spanish to like.........such as fried blood.


----------



## Andrew_tyrrell

Pesky Wesky said:


> You can get sausages from the butcher's here, but I don't expect they taste the same as British ones.


Sounds crazy but I do a "sausage and bacon" run once a year, with my trusty triple freezer bag.


----------



## Pesky Wesky

Andrew_tyrrell said:


> Sounds crazy but I do a "sausage and bacon" run once a year, with my trusty triple freezer bag.


What ever you need to keep you going!

A few years ago I decided to "break all food ties" with the UK. 
Except tea *of course.*
We all have our weaknesses...


----------



## baldilocks

Pesky Wesky said:


> What ever you need to keep you going!
> 
> A few years ago I decided to "break all food ties" with the UK.
> Except tea *of course.*
> We all have our weaknesses...


SWMBO likes tea, I don't. Some friends who will be coming at the end of the month have been commissioned to bring Sainsbury's Red Label tea bags which SWMBO reckons makes the best tea (either hot or iced) with the water we have here. Have also asked them to bring a bottle of Walnut Oil which does not seem to be available here.


----------



## Helenameva

baldilocks said:


> SWMBO likes tea, I don't. Some friends who will be coming at the end of the month have been commissioned to bring Sainsbury's Red Label tea bags which SWMBO reckons makes the best tea (either hot or iced) with the water we have here. Have also asked them to bring a bottle of Walnut Oil which does not seem to be available here.


Is the walnut oil for painting the patio furniture?

My weakness is Mentos, 3 packets for a pound in UK, 1€ s packet here, and then they are usually the fruity ones not mint. All visitors are instructed to bring as many as they can.


----------



## passiflora

I bought walnut oil here but can't remember if it was in Corte Ingles or a little gourmet type food shop in San Javier. Tea is my weakness as well but I have to buy online as I like green and white teas such as milky oolong and other tasty tipples. Waitrose morning tea can be bought here and we quite like that sometimes.


----------



## baldilocks

Helenameva said:


> Is the walnut oil for painting the patio furniture?


No, the walnut oil is part of the dressing on a warm salad of potatoes, celery, walnuts and blue cheese, which will be served up to the visitors while they are here.

For furniture, teak oil is best. Our patio furniture is plastic acquired at a very cheap price (a.k.a. gratis) when a bar in a nearby village was closing down - the nice part about it is the fact that it doesn't have a beer advert on it.


----------



## Madliz

I find most weird oils in my local health food shop, and, if not, they can generally order for me. Worth a try?


----------



## Lynn R

baldilocks said:


> SWMBO likes tea, I don't. Some friends who will be coming at the end of the month have been commissioned to bring Sainsbury's Red Label tea bags which SWMBO reckons makes the best tea (either hot or iced) with the water we have here. Have also asked them to bring a bottle of Walnut Oil which does not seem to be available here.


Isn't it good to have kind friends? This morning we've just received from friends who arrived last night a large box of Yorkshire teabags, Cauldron brand vegetarian sausages for my OH, some plumbing fittings and a surprise for me, loads of packets of Parma Violets sweets which I mentioned to them once I used to like, but haven't seen them for years. Hope they still taste as good. The teabags are now lasting twice as long as I can't drink tea any more, not being allowed caffeine on doctor's orders.


----------



## extranjero

Lynn R said:


> Isn't it good to have kind friends? This morning we've just received from friends who arrived last night a large box of Yorkshire teabags, Cauldron brand vegetarian sausages for my OH, some plumbing fittings and a surprise for me, loads of packets of Parma Violets sweets which I mentioned to them once I used to like, but haven't seen them for years. Hope they still taste as good. The teabags are now lasting twice as long as I can't drink tea any more, not being allowed caffeine on doctor's orders.


Decaffeinated tea?


----------



## Madliz

extranjero said:


> Decaffeinated tea?


There's even Mercadona's own brand now.


----------



## Pesky Wesky

Madliz said:


> There's even Mercadona's own brand now.


Is there???
I'll have to track that down. It would mean no more trips to Carrefour!


----------



## Desiato

Irritating little things about living in Spain results in Brits waffling on about tea...who would have thunk it!


----------



## Andrew_tyrrell

Desiato said:


> Irritating little things about living in Spain results in Brits waffling on about tea...who would have thunk it!


My Spanish partner will never understand my love of tea, it's been cooler theses last few days, so the teapots been out.


----------



## Alcalaina

Gazeebo said:


> Yeah, well, just had Sainsburys Finest Cumberland port sausages - lovely. Even better by miles are our local butcher's. Yummy yummy! I suppose I will have to live without sausages from October.
> 
> I'll let you know what I find irritating about Spain once I dock in October.


They make very nice sausages in Spain, they are called_ salchichas_. The main difference is that they don't add cereal to the mince like the English ones, but you soon get used to them and they go well on the BBQ.


----------



## Lynn R

extranjero said:


> Decaffeinated tea?


Thanks, I have seen it on sale but as I'm already having to buy decaffeinated coffee as well as the ordinary kind for my OH, I've decided just to do without the tea. I don't like the decaff coffee very much, but what can you do? I walk past people drinking lovely cups of café con leche outside bars, glowering. It's sooo unfair.


----------



## Desiato

Alcalaina said:


> They make very nice sausages in Spain, they are called_ salchichas_. The main difference is that they don't add cereal to the mince like the English ones, but you soon get used to them and they go well on the BBQ.


There aren't too many spicy things in the Spanish diet but I do like a nice bit of chistorra. The black pudding (or fried blood) is quite tasty too :evil:


----------



## passiflora

The fried blood they have here isn't like a sausage or black pudding, it's chunks of congealed pig or chicken blood fried with some onions..........me no like.


----------



## Desiato

passiflora said:


> The fried blood they have here isn't like a sausage or black pudding,* it's chunks of congealed pig or chicken blood fried with some onions*..........me no like.


mmmm...stop it, you are making me drool.


----------



## Madliz

Somebody brought me some Wall's sausages back from the UK recently, goodness only knows why. What a thorough disappointment. Tasteless and textureless. Give me a Spanish sausage of any size, shape or colour any day!

Mercadona's Te Descafeinado was something I spotted only recently and sent a photo to my daughter who is visiting soon and likes her decaff. She laughed her head off when she read underneath 'desteinado' - "You're going to offer me tea-less tea?" 
It is, I imagine, continental strength, like any brand that isn't British. I don't care for tea-less tea so have no opinion to offer as yet.
I get my PG or Tetleys in Carrefour (where I also found some Yorkshire recently) or Mercadona for PG.


----------



## Isobella

I didn't realise they still sold Walls sausages, they were crap over 20 years ago. Fancy someone having the cheek transporting them to Spain


----------



## Gazeebo

Isobella said:


> I didn't realise they still sold Walls sausages, they were crap over 20 years ago. Fancy someone having the cheek transporting them to Spain


Well we in Brit don't want them! Be thankful for small mercies.


----------



## passiflora

desiato said:


> mmmm...stop it, you are making me drool. :d


grosssssssssss!!!


----------



## Pesky Wesky

Madliz said:


> Somebody brought me some Wall's sausages back from the UK recently, goodness only knows why. What a thorough disappointment. Tasteless and textureless. Give me a Spanish sausage of any size, shape or colour any day!
> 
> Mercadona's Te Descafeinado was something I spotted only recently and sent a photo to my daughter who is visiting soon and likes her decaff. She laughed her head off when she read underneath 'desteinado' - "You're going to offer me tea-less tea?"
> It is, I imagine, continental strength, like any brand that isn't British. I don't care for tea-less tea so have no opinion to offer as yet.
> I get my PG or Tetleys in Carrefour (where I also found some Yorkshire recently) or Mercadona for PG.


I thought "desteinado" was referring to tea without tannin, but it's a less invasive way of taking out the caffeine than the method used to make "descafeinado", so for me the Mercadona brand is double good news, so thanks for telling me. Can't wait to try the Mercadona brand.
The strength of the tea is the same . "Descafeinado/ desteinado" doesn't affect the strength of taste.


----------



## Pesky Wesky

Lynn R said:


> Thanks, I have seen it on sale but as I'm already having to buy decaffeinated coffee as well as the ordinary kind for my OH, I've decided just to do without the tea. I don't like the decaff coffee very much, but what can you do? I walk past people drinking lovely cups of café con leche outside bars, glowering. It's sooo unfair.


Have you tried different brands? I can't tell the difference between decaff ground coffee and normal at home.In a bar sometimes a cafe con leche can seem weaker, but that's down to how much coffee they put in, not if it's decaff or not.
Same with tea. I can't tell the difference between decaf and normal, Maybe if they were side by side I could.
I'm not under doctor's orders, but I suddenly stopped sleeping because of caffeine. Mind you, even without it I sleep badly. Last night I woke up at 4:30 for example.


----------



## baldilocks

Pesky Wesky said:


> Have you tried different brands? I can't tell the difference between decaff ground coffee and normal at home.In a bar sometimes a cafe con leche can seem weaker, but that's down to how much coffee they put in, not if it's decaff or not.
> Same with tea. I can't tell the difference between decaf and normal, Maybe if they were side by side I could.
> I'm not under doctor's orders, but I suddenly stopped sleeping because of caffeine. Mind you, even without it I sleep badly. Last night I woke up at 4:30 for example.


We usually buy Lidl's Decaf instant coffee. The water here is unsuited for making proper coffee. PW, both you and I know where to get the best coffee and why, but if you don't have the right water...


----------



## Pesky Wesky

baldilocks said:


> We usually buy Lidl's Decaf instant coffee. The water here is unsuited for making proper coffee. PW, both you and I know where to get the best coffee and why, but if you don't have the right water...


That's true


----------



## smitty5668

*decaf tea*

we use Lidl brand in the uk (think they're called knightsbridge) in a blue box. very good they are too.


----------



## sdj101

I have to be extremely careful that no one serves me decaffeinated coffee as I am allergic to the chemicals used to remove the caffeine!!! I will be bringing a stash of Nescafe Gold Blend with me for use at home!!!


----------



## passiflora

baldilocks said:


> We usually buy Lidl's Decaf instant coffee. The water here is unsuited for making proper coffee. PW, both you and I know where to get the best coffee and why, but if you don't have the right water...


We stayed in an hotel in Suffolk the other week while we were there for a wedding. The tea used in the hotel was Fairtrade tea and in the room itself guests had to use tapwater to make a cuppa.......the resulting brew was pretty foul both in the room and at breakfast. We then stayed overnight at the wedding venue hotel where the room tea was Twinings and the water was bottled.......what a difference!


----------



## passiflora

Pesky Wesky said:


> Have you tried different brands? I can't tell the difference between decaff ground coffee and normal at home.In a bar sometimes a cafe con leche can seem weaker, but that's down to how much coffee they put in, not if it's decaff or not.
> Same with tea. I can't tell the difference between decaf and normal, Maybe if they were side by side I could.
> I'm not under doctor's orders, but I suddenly stopped sleeping because of caffeine. Mind you, even without it I sleep badly. Last night I woke up at 4:30 for example.


Nothing to do with tea but I sometimes have trouble either getting asleep or staying asleep and find listening to a DVD helps a lot. I usually listen to a voice giving me instructions on breathing and relaxing and before I know it I've dropped off! It doesn't always work but it usually does. Also book tapes are good,just lie in the dark,listening to a bedtime story (so to speak! ) and soon the Land of Nod beckons.


----------



## Trubrit

I sleep really badly and like Pesky I regularly wake up at 4.30 ish and should I need a wee at 3.00 then thats it, I can never get back to sleep. I have tried every idea imaginable to get back to sleep but I feel that I am destined to have just a few hours of sleep, but if Maggie can do it then so can I.


----------



## Pesky Wesky

Trubrit said:


> I sleep really badly and like Pesky I regularly wake up at 4.30 ish and should I need a wee at 3.00 then thats it, I can never get back to sleep. I have tried every idea imaginable to get back to sleep but I feel that I am destined to have just a few hours of sleep, but if Maggie can do it then so can I.


I too have decided to accept it rather than think about how many hours sleep a week I lose. Thank goodness I haven't got to the wee in the middle of the night stage yet.
Maggie did it, but she she did end up completely senile, which I'd quite like to avoid if possible .
If the mods don't chop this off and make a separate thread I'll open up a new one later on in La Tasca because it would be good to have some tips.


----------



## Lynn R

Pesky Wesky said:


> Have you tried different brands? I can't tell the difference between decaff ground coffee and normal at home.In a bar sometimes a cafe con leche can seem weaker, but that's down to how much coffee they put in, not if it's decaff or not.
> Same with tea. I can't tell the difference between decaf and normal, Maybe if they were side by side I could.
> I'm not under doctor's orders, but I suddenly stopped sleeping because of caffeine. Mind you, even without it I sleep badly. Last night I woke up at 4:30 for example.


Yes, I've tried different ones at home and also had descaffeinado de macchina in a variety of bars, and none of them taste as good as "real" coffee. The coffee doesn't seem to affect my sleeping pattern (I never drank it after 4pm anyway) but it's because of arrythmia that I can't have caffeine and it definitely makes a difference to that so however unwillingly, I have to stick with it.


----------



## Madliz

Spotted today in my local Carrefour


----------



## Pesky Wesky

Pesky Wesky said:


> .
> If the mods don't chop this off and make a separate thread I'll open up a new one later on in La Tasca because it would be good to have some tips.


New thread open if anyone's interested
http://www.expatforum.com/expats/la-tasca/839705-how-get-good-nights-sleep.html#post7975553


----------



## Pesky Wesky

Madliz said:


> Spotted today in my local Carrefour


Yes, that's what I buy atm from Carrefour El Pinar. And the PG Tips decaff is much cheaper than the Tetly decaff


----------



## passiflora

They sell PG Tips in Mercadona here near Cartagena. Me no like .


----------



## Isobella

I don't see how not being able to buy a favourite sausage, tea bag, bacon etc. can be classed as irritating. It is something that people know before moving. Imagine a Spaniard saying they were irritated they couldn't get a decent paella in Manchester

Main irritation for me is the how rules and regulations change. Like needing to be on the Padron to buy a car etc.


----------



## Pazcat

Gazpacho soup cartons in the fridge by the checkout at the shops instead of cold water or soft drink while they have warm drinks sitting next to the fridge.
The mind boggles.


----------



## Pesky Wesky

Isobella said:


> I don't see how not being able to buy a favourite sausage, tea bag, bacon etc. can be classed as irritating. It is something that people know before moving. Imagine a Spaniard saying they were irritated they couldn't get a decent paella in Manchester
> 
> Main irritation for me is the how rules and regulations change. Like needing to be on the Padron to buy a car etc.


I think we got way off topic by talking about decafeinated tea, which in my case is not an irritation of living in Spain at all. My "irritation" was plainly stated on post 18, but I'll post it again to get the thread back on topic, perhaps


> I dislike living in Spain for coming up to 30 years, writing posts on a forum about foreigners living in Spain and being considered negative, pessimistic and a manic depressive for merely writing about things I see and live!
> 
> Obviously I am very happy with life here, otherwise I wouldn't have stayed so long, but one thing that I cannot reconcile myself to is the amount of money I have to pay to be self employed at 265€ a month.


----------



## Madliz

Irritating for me is the heavy handed behaviour of authorities here. An example is this new gagging law. The _authorities_ serve _us_, the people, no? Their pay comes from our contributions, no? Yet how dare we call them out when they do wrong?

A prime example is this lady who took a photograph of an empty police car in a disabled bay, posted it on Facebook and was fined €800. Is this sort of thing going to help community relations? To me it makes Spain a laughing stock and a place to avoid.

Spanish woman fined â‚¬800 for taking picture of police car in disabled parking space - Europe - World - The Independent


----------



## Madliz

Ooh, I see that Alcalaina has started a thread about this already.


----------



## GUAPACHICA

Isobella said:


> I don't see how not being able to buy a favourite sausage, tea bag, bacon etc. can be classed as irritating. It is something that people know before moving. Imagine a Spaniard saying they were irritated they couldn't get a decent paella in Manchester
> 
> Main irritation for me is the how rules and regulations change. Like needing to be on the Padron to buy a car etc.


Hi - Actually, I used to have to listen to Spanish friends moaning a lot, after trips to the UK, that they couldn't find their favourite Spanish foods ( normally, Jamon Iberico and chorizo..), whilst there - or 'decent' Spanish restaurants! That's all changed, thanks to supermarkets such as Waitrose - and, of course, M&S, both of which now offer authentic Spanish food products, to the delight of other Spanish friends who've now moved to England, to work!
As for Spanish restaurants, London, at least, now has several well- known ones, whilst 'tapas' bars can be found in most UK cities and large towns!

There's nothing untoward about hankering after favourite foods or drinks from one's own country - why should there be? None of my Spanish friends would expect to be required to give up their own 'tastes of home' - they would laugh at the very thought!

We Brits. hail from a nation which revels in the availability of foodstuffs from all over the world - and all of the necessary ingredients are svailable to buy, in British supermarkets, specialist food shops and markets. Why, then, would anyone, having relocated to Spain, feel obliged to restrict him/herself only to 'Spanish' foods?

I can, of course, understand the need to appreciate that we should not expect to find international food options in the Spanish 'campo' and that we should all, as guests of Spain, make the effort to sample local Spanish dishes. Here in Cádiz, we resident (guiris) foreigners certainly do our best to support the city's food market and the local speciality foods/ menús! 

Nonetheless, my own Spanish friends love our 'International' lunches and suppers, which we organise through the colder months - and which I initiated, for the sake of my then students, to give them the opportunity to taste Chinese and other Asian foods especially curries ( with the spices having been brought across by me, on flights back from the UK..)! 

In fact,,Cádiz 'city' does have one Chinese restaurant - but none from India/Pakistan/Bangladesh/Thailand or any other Asian country, so, our shared meals are hugely popular, even if many of the flavours are virtually unknown to my Spanish volunteer 'assistant' chefs, LOL!

BTW, I don't eat suasages, of any kind, but would be grateful if someone here could please advise me as to the nature of the ingredient in Spanish suasages and bacon which gives them that strange pinky- red appearance..? Even some raw pork chops and 'filetes' have the same rosy tinge - and, no, I'm not talking about the 'meat' content...!

My own concern, with many processed Spanish food products, is the inevitable addition of added sugar and salt! Our local supermarket shelves are groaning with jars and cans of 'Tomate Frito', which seems very popular. I've checked the lists of ingredients - all brands include both sugar and salt - as do all available brands, here, of tinned tomatoes, bottled, pulped tomatoes and other vegetables ( which are bought, in quantity, by local Spanish customers - in case you are horrified at my food- shopping habits...)! 

I prefer unsweetened, wholly natural 'live' yoghurt, but that's not available in any of the three supermarkets closest to me. All their yoghurts are full of sugar and, usually, various thickeners and artificial flavourings. I have to trek either to Cortes Inglés or to a 'Health- food' shop, some distance away, to buy any which have not been so adulterated!

I freely admit to enjoying having a wander around the Cortes Inglés 'Gourmet' section - to discover what is, actually, considered 'gourmet'.... So many 'ordinary' British foodstuffs can be found there, including lemon curd' ( which I love..), ha, ha!

Saludos,
GC.


----------



## baldilocks

I, also, do not see why the non-availability of a person's food/drink choice should be classed as an irritation. Surely, if that person had researched her/his move properly, she/he would have known, in advance, that substance was not available and either decided to do without, or arranged an alternative supply or decided on a substitute. The real irritation is the fact that those people are moaning about their *own* failure to properly prepare.

I recently made some sausage-meat and used it to stuff some large tomatoes, one of which, we took along to the lady (Spanish) who supplied the tomatoes and she thought it was delicious and so full of flavour. She would like the recipe. Next time I am making sausage-meat, she will come and watch.


----------



## Pazcat

It's hardly a case of being prepared or poor judgement, it is what it is and even the fact that one would have to arrange an alternative or go without is by itself even more irritating than having cracker bangers readily available. It's not just a Spain thing though, it's a trait seen throughout continental Europe and the discerning sausage consumer would be aware of this and be slightly bothered by it.
That's it though, it's hardly the end of the world but that is exactly the theme of this thread.

So yes, before I even moved I had come to terms with the fact that it is highly unlikely that we shall see a "Sausage Revolution" sweep across Europe lead by swathes of Aussie butchers brandishing meat trays and raffle tickets spreading the joys of the humble bbq pork sausage. But it still annoys me I haven't had a good sausage in 7 years.

So I'm happy with the talk of sausages, tea(bleurghh),driving standards, lack of email response and all the other seemingly trivial and often personal complaints stated in this thread which are then in my view contrasted by these new gagging laws, crippling autonomo payments, kafkaesque bureaucracy, huge unemployment and so on which the word irritating is possibly the nicest word one can say in regards to them.
These are more serious issues which have far more of an impact on Spanish society as whole with actual physical, socialogical, mental and financial consequences and probably deserve a higher billing than just the "irritating little things"


----------



## baldilocks

Pazcat said:


> So yes, before I even moved I had come to terms with the fact that it is highly unlikely that we shall see a "Sausage Revolution" sweep across Europe lead by swathes of Aussie butchers brandishing meat trays and raffle tickets spreading the joys of the humble bbq pork sausage. But it still annoys me I haven't had a good sausage in 7 years.


Why not make your own?


----------



## passiflora

I guess that sometimes in the hustle and bustle of moving to a new country with a new language and new sets of rules etc., it might just slip ones mind to think about something as mundane as tea! I agree that it might be a bit strong to call it an irritation though as tea can be found everywhere it just depends as to whether it's to the individuals taste. I also have found that the Spanish are very narrow minded where food is concerned and the locals here don't appreciate my food at all and when I took them to England for their first visit there they insisted on eating in Spanish restaurants while there and I had a job to convince them to try a typical Sunday roast lunch! A friend's son travels the world with his job with a metal fabrication/construction company and hates the food in all the countries he's been to this year.......Germany, Brazil and Japan. I'd give my eye teeth to travel free to Japan and sample the cuisine but Javi couldn't wait to get home to eat some decent food! So being picky about our cuppa or our bangers seems nought compared to someone who thinks ALL foreign food is yeugh!


----------



## Alcalaina

GUAPACHICA said:


> In fact,,Cádiz 'city' does have one Chinese restaurant - but none from India/Pakistan/Bangladesh/Thailand or any other Asian country, so, our shared meals are hugely popular, even if many of the flavours are virtually unknown to my Spanish volunteer 'assistant' chefs, LOL!
> 
> I prefer unsweetened, wholly natural 'live' yoghurt, but that's not available in any of the three supermarkets closest to me. All their yoghurts are full of sugar and, usually, various thickeners and artificial flavourings. I have to trek either to Cortes Inglés or to a 'Health- food' shop, some distance away, to buy any which have not been so adulterated!


There used to be an Indian restaurant not far from the RENFE station - we went there once for my birthday. It was pretty dire, and they used Mexican tortillas instead of chapatis. I think it was run by some Brits - I'm not surprised it's closed.

It's really easy to make unsweetened natural yoghurt at home. You just need a hot water bottle and a small insulated coolbox. Add a small tub of probiotic natural yoghurt to a litre of full cream milk, warmed to body temperature. Stir well then pour it into a covered jug, and leave it in the coolbox with the hot water bottle overnight so it stays warm. You can re-use some for the next batch.


----------



## Lynn R

passiflora said:


> I guess that sometimes in the hustle and bustle of moving to a new country with a new language and new sets of rules etc., it might just slip ones mind to think about something as mundane as tea! I agree that it might be a bit strong to call it an irritation though as tea can be found everywhere it just depends as to whether it's to the individuals taste. I also have found that the Spanish are very narrow minded where food is concerned and the locals here don't appreciate my food at all and when I took them to England for their first visit there they insisted on eating in Spanish restaurants while there and I had a job to convince them to try a typical Sunday roast lunch! A friend's son travels the world with his job with a metal fabrication/construction company and hates the food in all the countries he's been to this year.......Germany, Brazil and Japan. I'd give my eye teeth to travel free to Japan and sample the cuisine but Javi couldn't wait to get home to eat some decent food! So being picky about our cuppa or our bangers seems nought compared to someone who thinks ALL foreign food is yeugh!


I have people in my own family who are like that, so it's not just Spanish people who feel that way. My brother won't eat pasta or pizza, would be horrified if asked to eat curry or Chinese food or anything containing garlic. He travels widely for his job, in IT, too.


----------



## Alcalaina

passiflora said:


> I guess that sometimes in the hustle and bustle of moving to a new country with a new language and new sets of rules etc., it might just slip ones mind to think about something as mundane as tea! I agree that it might be a bit strong to call it an irritation though as tea can be found everywhere it just depends as to whether it's to the individuals taste. I also have found that the Spanish are very narrow minded where food is concerned and the locals here don't appreciate my food at all and when I took them to England for their first visit there they insisted on eating in Spanish restaurants while there and I had a job to convince them to try a typical Sunday roast lunch! A friend's son travels the world with his job with a metal fabrication/construction company and hates the food in all the countries he's been to this year.......Germany, Brazil and Japan. I'd give my eye teeth to travel free to Japan and sample the cuisine but Javi couldn't wait to get home to eat some decent food! So being picky about our cuppa or our bangers seems nought compared to someone who thinks ALL foreign food is yeugh!


We all have different approaches to what we like to eat. Some people are very nervous about trying things they haven't had before, which is perfectly understandable, while others (like me) will always want to sample new flavours. The ones I feel sorry for are the married couples containing one from each category. Mealtimes must be a nightmare!


----------



## Madliz

> I prefer unsweetened, wholly natural 'live' yoghurt, but that's not available in any of the three supermarkets closest to me. All their yoghurts are full of sugar and, usually, various thickeners and artificial flavourings. I have to trek either to Cortes Inglés or to a 'Health- food' shop, some distance away, to buy any which have not been so adulterated!


I make my own with a yoghurt maker I bought from Lidl over a decade ago. One small pot of yoghurt of your choice, a litre of milk with the same fat content, 14 hours overnight and I have six jars of delicious, creamy yoghurt in the morning. You can use one of the jars to make the next batch, and so on. No need to trek any more, and the savings will soon pay for the machine.



> Why not make your own?


I used to in the UK and they were the best ever. Do you get your sausage skins from the butcher, out of interest?


----------



## Pazcat

baldilocks said:


> Why not make your own?


That is a fair comment and I could but even then they tend to turn out too good, more of a gourmet sausage if you will.
Too good to waste in a piece of bread with sauce.

Help may be at hand though.
www.sausagemaking.org • Index page


----------



## baldilocks

Madliz said:


> I make my own with a yoghurt maker I bought from Lidl over a decade ago. One small pot of yoghurt of your choice, a litre of milk with the same fat content, 14 hours overnight and I have six jars of delicious, creamy yoghurt in the morning. You can use one of the jars to make the next batch, and so on. No need to trek any more, and the savings will soon pay for the machine.
> 
> 
> 
> I used to in the UK and they were the best ever. Do you get your sausage skins from the butcher, out of interest?


Nope - don't bother with a skin - it isn't necessary and most shop bought sausages have an artificial skin anyway. 

SWMBO makes her own yoghurt in a thermally insulated outer into which she pours hot water then places the 1 litre container for an overnight rest.



> That is a fair comment and I could but even then they tend to turn out too good, more of a gourmet sausage if you will.
> Too good to waste in a piece of bread with sauce.


No sausage is too good to waste, but I must admit I don't make them too often to maintain that "special"-ness.


----------



## jimenato

Interesting posts about being fussy about foreign foods. 

In my experience Brits have a far more cosmopolitan taste in food than most nationalities - probably because the UK is such a cosmopolitan place - you can get anything there and have been able to for years - and also Brits have been travelling extensively on holiday and business more than many nationalities.

The people who came to our restaurant who would try something new tended to be young professionals, teachers and so on and they really appreciated it _but_ they were doing it as an adventure whereas Brits regularly prepare and eat foreign in their own homes as a matter of course.

Contrary to those previously mentioned Spanish people who went to the UK and insisted on only eating Spanish, my experience is that Brits who come to Spain usually immediately dive into Spanish food and Spanishness in general, often to the extent of eschewing all things British although the initial enthusiasm usually wanes over time.


----------



## Isobella

jimenato said:


> Interesting posts about being fussy about foreign foods.
> 
> In my experience Brits have a far more cosmopolitan taste in food than most nationalities - probably because the UK is such a cosmopolitan place - you can get anything there and have been able to for years - and also Brits have been travelling extensively on holiday and business more than many nationalities.


There is a little Cafe on the beach near Chichester. We often walk the dog around there and have coffee or a bacon butty. Very traditional but on the blackboard menu including whitebait etc. are calamari, moules, paninis.


----------



## Alcalaina

jimenato said:


> Interesting posts about being fussy about foreign foods.
> 
> In my experience Brits have a far more cosmopolitan taste in food than most nationalities - probably because the UK is such a cosmopolitan place - you can get anything there and have been able to for years - and also Brits have been travelling extensively on holiday and business more than many nationalities.
> 
> The people who came to our restaurant who would try something new tended to be young professionals, teachers and so on and they really appreciated it _but_ they were doing it as an adventure whereas Brits regularly prepare and eat foreign in their own homes as a matter of course.
> 
> Contrary to those previously mentioned Spanish people who went to the UK and insisted on only eating Spanish, my experience is that Brits who come to Spain usually immediately dive into Spanish food and Spanishness in general, often to the extent of eschewing all things British although the initial enthusiasm usually wanes over time.


I agree Jimenato. But a big factor in the waning of that initial enthusiasm for Spanish food must be the poor quality of cooking in many tourist restaurants, ventas and bars. They start off with fantastic ingredients and manage to ruin them. The best way to appreciate Spanish food is to learn to cook it yourself!


----------



## baldilocks

Isobella said:


> There is a little Cafe on the beach near Chichester. We often walk the dog around there and have coffee or a bacon butty. Very traditional but on the blackboard menu including whitebait etc. are calamari, moules, paninis.


Sorry but just using foreign names for things doesn't count, so on the blackboard they have squid, mussels, sandwiches...


----------



## mrypg9

Alcalaina said:


> I agree Jimenato. But a big factor in the waning of that initial enthusiasm for Spanish food must be the poor quality of cooking in many tourist restaurants, ventas and bars. They start off with fantastic ingredients and manage to ruin them. The best way to appreciate Spanish food is to learn to cook it yourself!


Not necessarily because of 'poor quality of cooking in 'tourist restaurants etc.' Why do you assume 'tourist restaurants' must serve poor food? I'm a tourist when I visit other places in Spain and I don't expect and wouldn't accept poor quality food wherever I eat. Most tourists have standards just as we immigrant Brits do and any restaurant that served crap food wouldn't last long. Tourism and poor quality don't go hand-in-hand. There are many poor quality food outlets out in the sticks. 
Maybe people's enthusiasm for Spanish food wanes because they find they prefer other types of food. I eat a mixture of things....Chinese, Indian, Mexican....I'd love a fish and chip supper but I'd have to travel for an hour there and back to the nearest fish'n'chip shop.
Not everyone who cooks Spanish food will turn out a quality meal. I'm sure not every Spaniard is a first class chef.A poor cook can ruin the best of ingredients. 
Believe me, I know....I often do.


----------



## mrypg9

Alcalaina said:


> We all have different approaches to what we like to eat. Some people are very nervous about trying things they haven't had before, which is perfectly understandable, while others (like me) will always want to sample new flavours. The ones I feel sorry for are the married couples containing one from each category. Mealtimes must be a nightmare!


Although I am not a vegetarian I have become a vegetarian....in other words, I can't be arsed to cook separately for vegetarian Sandra so very rarely eat meat myself.
When I do, I really enjoy it.


----------



## Pesky Wesky

Pazcat said:


> Gazpacho soup cartons in the fridge by the checkout at the shops instead of cold water or soft drink while they have warm drinks sitting next to the fridge.
> The mind boggles.


It doesn't seem mind boggling to me.
Gazpacho goes off and needs to be refridgerated. Coke and Fanta don't go off and don't need to be in cool storage. One point for the supermarket for not using energy to keep goods cool that don't need to be.


Pazcat said:


> So I'm happy with the talk of sausages, tea(bleurghh),driving standards, lack of email response and all the other seemingly trivial and often personal complaints stated in this thread which are then in my view contrasted by these new gagging laws, crippling autonomo payments, kafkaesque bureaucracy, huge unemployment and so on which the word irritating is possibly the nicest word one can say in regards to them.
> These are more serious issues which have far more of an impact on Spanish society as whole with actual physical, socialogical, mental and financial consequences and probably deserve a higher billing than just the "irritating little things"


Which, I suppose, is why this thread is called "irritating little things about living in Spain" and not "serious issues which have an impact on Spain as a whole". 
There are plenty of threads about these "serious issues" already open and a large number were started by me


----------



## Rabbitcat

Vegetarians really are a joke going around making sausages, etc out of vegetables

We meat eaters don't go about making carrots or turnips out of steak.

Annoyed, Tunbridge Wells


----------



## Alcalaina

mrypg9 said:


> Not necessarily because of 'poor quality of cooking in 'tourist restaurants etc.' Why do you assume 'tourist restaurants' must serve poor food? I'm a tourist when I visit other places in Spain and I don't expect and wouldn't accept poor quality food wherever I eat. Most tourists have standards just as we immigrant Brits do and any restaurant that served crap food wouldn't last long. Tourism and poor quality don't go hand-in-hand. There are many poor quality food outlets out in the sticks.
> Maybe people's enthusiasm for Spanish food wanes because they find they prefer other types of food. I eat a mixture of things....Chinese, Indian, Mexican....I'd love a fish and chip supper but I'd have to travel for an hour there and back to the nearest fish'n'chip shop.
> Not everyone who cooks Spanish food will turn out a quality meal. I'm sure not every Spaniard is a first class chef.A poor cook can ruin the best of ingredients.
> Believe me, I know....I often do.


I did say _many_ tourist restaurants, not all. How do I know? Because I've been in them! They are popular because they serve cheap meals at midday and early evening when non-Spaniards get hungry. The top sellers are watery gazpacho and microwaved "paella". OH once had a plate of "chicken stew" in Cadiz that was all skin and bones in a sauce so salty it could have been made with seawater. Yet it was marketed as authentic Spanish cooking and the place was teeming with tourists off a cruise ship, who they know will never go back!

The quality of cooking in the rustic ventas is often appalling - again I know from experience. There are always good ones if you know where to look, but they are basically catering for workers and hunters who just want a plate of calories, nothing fancy thank you.

The best way to enjoy these wonderful seasonal ingredients is to buy them fresh and do as little as possible with them. You don't have to be a great cook, just learn a few basic techniques.


----------



## Pazcat

oops reply to Pesky's post

But it's marketing more than anything, poor marketing at that. The idea behind having products placed at or near the checkout is more for the impulse buyer and should be somewhat logical.

They already have fridges full of gazpacho and other things that may go off elsewhere in the shop but after spending an hour fending off tourists and queing and such and then knowing you have to walk out into the heat I haven't often decided that I could do with a nice fresh 2 litres of gazpacho to quench my thirst. But had those warm bottles of water or fizzy drink been put in that fridge then the whole family would probably purchase a drink.
Maybe I'm wrong and gazpacho is a huge seller and it does make sensible business practice, still seems peculiar.


----------



## Pesky Wesky

Alcalaina said:


> I did say _many_ tourist restaurants, not all. How do I know? Because I've been in them! They are popular because they serve cheap meals at midday and early evening when non-Spaniards get hungry. The top sellers are watery gazpacho and microwaved "paella". OH once had a plate of "chicken stew" in Cadiz that was all skin and bones in a sauce so salty it could have been made with seawater. Yet it was marketed as authentic Spanish cooking and the place was teeming with tourists off a cruise ship, who they know will never go back!
> 
> The quality of cooking in the rustic ventas is often appalling - again I know from experience. There are always good ones if you know where to look, but they are basically catering for workers and hunters who just want a plate of calories, nothing fancy thank you.
> 
> The best way to enjoy these wonderful seasonal ingredients is to buy them fresh and do as little as possible with them. You don't have to be a great cook, just learn a few basic techniques.


I've had horrible meals here, and horrible meals in the UK, in pubs, in mesones...


----------



## jimenato

Alcalaina said:


> I agree Jimenato. But a big factor in the waning of that initial enthusiasm for Spanish food must be the poor quality of cooking in many tourist restaurants, ventas and bars. They start off with fantastic ingredients and manage to ruin them. The best way to appreciate Spanish food is to learn to cook it yourself!


Agreed - but you could have left the word _tourist_ out. Also, unless you travel around Spain a bit, the food can get a bit samey.


----------



## baldilocks

I must admit to complaining on one occasion about the flood of oil on an otherwise delicious plate of jamon Iberico and my host agreed that some oil might be OK but this amount (about 6-7 mm deep) was too much.


----------



## xabiaxica

the discussion about Racism in Spain is now here


----------



## mrypg9

jimenato said:


> Agreed - but you could have left the word _tourist_ out. Also, unless you travel around Spain a bit, the food can get a bit samey.


Yes, I dislike the inference that 'tourists' are undiscerning. I equally can't agree that anything and everything Spanish MUST be superior to anything British.
I don't know about the rest of the UK but we enjoyed fresh fruit and vegetables of a standard equal or in some instances superior to anything in Spain. OK, we had easy access to farm shops and local markets but it's not right to assume that once you leave Gatwick you are destined for eternal culinary delight.
The other thing is this: what exactly is a 'tourist restaurant'? Is it one that no Spaniard would eat in, one exclusively for non-Spanish tourists? Recently, we've got in the habit of eating out on Saturday nights. All of the restaurants we've eaten in have been mid-price range and the clientele has been mixed but mainly Spanish apart from one which in summer has a mainly British clientele but which offers a variety of dishes, enjoyable but not Cordon Bleu. In the winter most of these restaurants cater to an almost exclusively Spanish clientele. They don't lower their standards just because it's the tourist season and besides many of the tourists are Spanish.


----------



## Alcalaina

jimenato said:


> Agreed - but you could have left the word _tourist_ out. Also, unless you travel around Spain a bit, the food can get a bit samey.


OK, but we were talking about the impressions foreigners get of Spanish food. Many go to these tourist places purely because they are open and serving meals at the times when they want to eat (e.g. lunch at 1, dinner at 7.30). They don't have a very nice experience and think all Spanish food is like that.


----------



## baldilocks

Alcalaina said:


> OK, but we were talking about the impressions foreigners get of Spanish food. Many go to these tourist places purely because they are open and serving meals at the times when they want to eat (e.g. lunch at 1, dinner at 7.30). They don't have a very nice experience and think all Spanish food is like that.


At home, we still do have lunch at 1 and merienda at 7 because they are times that fit in with the other things we do and we don't like to eat late and go to bed with a stomach full of food awaiting digestion. Even when out, we still prefer to have lunch in the 1-2 slot rather than the 3-4 slot.


----------



## jimenato

Alcalaina said:


> OK, but we were talking about the impressions foreigners get of Spanish food. Many go to these tourist places purely because they are open and serving meals at the times when they want to eat (e.g. lunch at 1, dinner at 7.30). They don't have a very nice experience and think all Spanish food is like that.


You're right - we were. 

The point I was really making was that in general Brits appear to be more prepared to have a go at foreign foods than most.


----------



## jimenato

baldilocks said:


> At home, we still do have lunch at 1 and merienda at 7 because they are times that fit in with the other things we do and we don't like to eat late and go to bed with a stomach full of food awaiting digestion. Even when out, we still prefer to have lunch in the 1-2 slot rather than the 3-4 slot.


Spanish people who come to the UK must get pretty irritated with 90% of the pubs/restaurants finishing food at 9.


----------



## Lynn R

jimenato said:


> Spanish people who come to the UK must get pretty irritated with 90% of the pubs/restaurants finishing food at 9.


My OH and I were once eating in a British bar in Nerja (he fancied a veggie burger). A lady came in at 2.05 pm and tried to order lunch but was told sorry, the chef finishes at 2.00pm.

We had the same experience in Ambleside once when we'd driven up there one Easter weekend, and after driving round for ages because we couldn't find anywhere to park, we walked into the bar/restaurant of a hotel at just after 2.00 pm and the first words mine host greeted us with (not hello, good afternoon, what can I get you?) were "I hope you don't want anything to eat, we stop serving at 2.00 pm. I often wonder what foreign tourists must make of that kind of service.


----------



## Alcalaina

mrypg9 said:


> The other thing is this: what exactly is a 'tourist restaurant'? Is it one that no Spaniard would eat in, one exclusively for non-Spanish tourists? Recently, we've got in the habit of eating out on Saturday nights. All of the restaurants we've eaten in have been mid-price range and the clientele has been mixed but mainly Spanish apart from one which in summer has a mainly British clientele but which offers a variety of dishes, enjoyable but not Cordon Bleu. In the winter most of these restaurants cater to an almost exclusively Spanish clientele. They don't lower their standards just because it's the tourist season and besides many of the tourists are Spanish.


You think these places don't exist because you haven't been to them? 

OK here's an example. My mum and stepfather, like thousands of others each year, went on a Saga coach tour in Andalucia a few years ago. They ate lunch every day at restaurants where you could park a bus and get a three course meal for 50 people turned round in an hour. (Of course the Spaniards don't eat there, they are in a venta round the corner.) They came back saying Spanish food "wasn't very nice". Not surprising really. When I took her to Estepona last year and introduced her to tapas she became addicted to _boquerones fritos_, but many visitors have no idea how to _tapear_.

Another example. A friend with three children under 14 was staying in a coastal resort last month. She was on a tight budget and couldn't afford to eat in what you call "mid-price range" establishments. She tried them on an 8€ menú del día but one found a bit of splintered bone in her chicken (quite common as they don't clean the portions properly) and the other was gagging on an extremely salty revuelta with yesterday's chips stirred into the scrambled egg. They now think all Spanish food is horrible and would only eat at Burger King, Dominos pizza or a place selling those pre-cooked microwaveable paella dishes.


----------



## jimenato

Lynn R said:


> My OH and I were once eating in a British bar in Nerja (he fancied a veggie burger). A lady came in at 2.05 pm and tried to order lunch but was told sorry, the chef finishes at 2.00pm.
> 
> We had the same experience in Ambleside once when we'd driven up there one Easter weekend, and after driving round for ages because we couldn't find anywhere to park, we walked into the bar/restaurant of a hotel at just after 2.00 pm and the first words mine host greeted us with (not hello, good afternoon, what can I get you?) were "I hope you don't want anything to eat, we stop serving at 2.00 pm. I often wonder what foreign tourists must make of that kind of service.


At least things have changed in the last few years. It is now possible to eat/drink throughout the afternoon in lots of places. Nearly everywhere - town and country - there are mega pubs which are usually part of a brewery chain that serve reasonable food from breakfast to dinner. 

They often have offers like free food for children from 3 to 5pm to capture the after school trade. 

Many still finish at 9 though...


----------



## Lynn R

Alcalaina said:


> You think these places don't exist because you haven't been to them?
> 
> OK here's an example. My mum and stepfather, like thousands of others each year, went on a Saga coach tour in Andalucia a few years ago. They ate lunch every day at restaurants where you could park a bus and get a three course meal for 50 people turned round in an hour. (Of course the Spaniards don't eat there, they are in a venta round the corner.) They came back saying Spanish food "wasn't very nice". Not surprising really. When I took her to Estepona last year and introduced her to tapas she became addicted to _boquerones fritos_, but many visitors have no idea how to _tapear_.
> 
> Another example. A friend with three children under 14 was staying in a coastal resort last month. She was on a tight budget and couldn't afford to eat in what you call "mid-price range" establishments. She tried them on an 8€ menú del día but one found a bit of splintered bone in her chicken (quite common as they don't clean the portions properly) and the other was gagging on an extremely salty revuelta with yesterday's chips stirred into the scrambled egg. They now think all Spanish food is horrible and would only eat at Burger King, Dominos pizza or a place selling those pre-cooked microwaveable paella dishes.


I find Spanish restaurants very hit and miss. Some which serve reasonably priced menus del dia can be very good (there's one we've always enjoyed in the centre of Loja, which is always busy with local workers, normally a good sign) but we had probably the worst meal we've ever had in Spain in one in Antequera. Nasty gristly piece of meat, a few soggy, pallid chips and salad consisting almost entirely of iceberg lettuce which was brown at the edges and swimming in water. I can't remember what the starter was but the best thing about it was the supermarket "flan" served for dessert. Even the bread was nasty. In the past, I have ordered tortilla and been served one made with what I suspect were chips left over from someone else's meal.

Thank goodness they're not all that bad, but you are right, they certainly do exist and are more common in areas where most of their customers are tourists because they know they will be moving on.


----------



## Isobella

Lynn R said:


> My OH and I were once eating in a British bar in Nerja (he fancied a veggie burger). A lady came in at 2.05 pm and tried to order lunch but was told sorry, the chef finishes at 2.00pm.
> 
> We had the same experience in Ambleside once when we'd driven up there one Easter weekend, and after driving round for ages because we couldn't find anywhere to park, we walked into the bar/restaurant of a hotel at just after 2.00 pm and the first words mine host greeted us with (not hello, good afternoon, what can I get you?) were "I hope you don't want anything to eat, we stop serving at 2.00 pm. I often wonder what foreign tourists must make of that kind of service.


Most foreign tourists are not from Spain and eat more or less the same time as the British. Spanish stick mainly to London and the South. The germans, French and Dutch tend to eat dinner early. Americans even earlier than us.


----------



## Lynn R

Isobella said:


> Most foreign tourists are not from Spain and eat more or less the same time as the British. Spanish stick mainly to London and the South. The germans, French and Dutch tend to eat dinner early.


I bet the Americans, however, are more used to being able to order whatever they like whenever they like, with ingredients left out or added and not just being expected to stick to what the menu says, and getting it served up with a smile rather than "we stop serving at xxx".

Another establishment, in Kirkby Lonsdale, refused to serve us as we only wanted coffee and didn't want to order anything to eat. And other than ourselves only one other table in the place was occupied, so it wasn't as if we would have been taking up a table that other people who would have ordered food might have wanted.

But bad service and rudeness is certainly not confined to the UK. We were out with relatives staying with us and went into a large restaurant in Colmenar on Sunday lunchtime. There were about 4 options on the menu which would have been suitable for my vegetarian OH, and I tried to order each of them in turn for him, only to be told they weren't available. I explained to the waitress that my husband is vegetarian and doensn't eat meat or fish, and asked if there was anything he could have, expecting maybe to be offered an omelette. "Lechuga" she said, and laughed. The four of us got up and left, but I don't suppose they cared as the place was packed with Spanish families.


----------



## mrypg9

Alcalaina said:


> You think these places don't exist because you haven't been to them?
> 
> OK here's an example. My mum and stepfather, like thousands of others each year, went on a Saga coach tour in Andalucia a few years ago. They ate lunch every day at restaurants where you could park a bus and get a three course meal for 50 people turned round in an hour. (Of course the Spaniards don't eat there, they are in a venta round the corner.) They came back saying Spanish food "wasn't very nice". Not surprising really. When I took her to Estepona last year and introduced her to tapas she became addicted to _boquerones fritos_, but many visitors have no idea how to _tapear_.
> 
> Another example. A friend with three children under 14 was staying in a coastal resort last month. She was on a tight budget and couldn't afford to eat in what you call "mid-price range" establishments. She tried them on an 8€ menú del día but one found a bit of splintered bone in her chicken (quite common as they don't clean the portions properly) and the other was gagging on an extremely salty revuelta with yesterday's chips stirred into the scrambled egg. They now think all Spanish food is horrible and would only eat at Burger King, Dominos pizza or a place selling those pre-cooked microwaveable paella dishes.


My point is this: that tourists come in a variety of nationalities, Spanish too and not all are so undiscerning that they will eat crap food. I also have yet to come across a restaurant that caters solely for 'tourists' - mind you, I have yet to go on a Saga tour.

I'm sure you must have been a tourist, in Spain before you came to live and in other countries too. Did you eat in the kind of places you describe? I certainly didn't when I was a tourist. It simply isn't true that most tourists have undiscerning palates or that most Spanish people, whether tourists or resident, are gourmets.

I don't doubt that awful restaurants exist. I didn't dispute that. What I am saying is that bad restaurants exist everywhere and anywhere and are not necessarily going to offer poor quality fare because they happen to be patronised by tourists, as if tourists were incapable of knowing good food - cheap good food too - from bad food.
Some Spanish ventas and restaurants far away from main tourist areas can be as dire as any in areas like Benidorm or Torremolinos.

It's not difficult to 'tapear', though, is it...'. An enjoyable way of eating very easily acquired. Very many visitors enjoy it too.


----------



## Lolito

'in my first years in the UK, I worked at 3 different spanish tapas bars (Portobello, Camden and Fulham), all 3 still open today and I am talking about 1989 and 1990. 

These were packed daily Monday to Sunday a few times over.

I can assure you all, that all the 'spanish' food was crap, 90% tinned, we used to open the can, empty the contents in a tapas dish and microwave it for 1, 2 o 3 mins and the customers (mostly british) will love it all, even the gazpacho, garbanzos y alubias riojanas were tinned. 

So I would stay away from any 'tapas' bar in the UK.


----------



## mrypg9

jimenato said:


> Spanish people who come to the UK must get pretty irritated with 90% of the pubs/restaurants finishing food at 9.


Gawd knows what they'd think of Prague.....when we met up for dinner with friends we always met at 6pm. We'd be home by 9.00.
A Spanish friend is visiting Prague next week. I've warned her...
Now that's a place where tourists are ripped off, even to the extent of having menus in English with prices several times those for Czechs.
Truly awful food too, but for everyone....no 'racism' here. Czechs eat crap too.


----------



## Lolito

Here in Spain, we, Spanish people in general, try to stay away from all those places in 'primera linea de playa' (by the beach), i rather go more 'inside' the village/city and find a good cosy restaurant, usually the difference between one menu and another is 1 or 2 euros, but the quality of food is very different, but then again , I am spanish and I know if the merluza a la koskera con almejas is good or not, same way i couldn't really tell if my first ever Sunday Roast was good or not...


----------



## Lolito

ooopps ! I think i have not explained things very well, sorry, but i am on lots of medication right now and i a bit all over the place today.

What i meant to say is that if you come to Spain and eat something for the first time that you have never tried before, you might either like it or hate it. But you won't know whether the thing you have eaten was done well enough of if it wasn't, i.e, my mum makes a very mean txitxarro al horno and where i come from, they do it very well, but i have tried it here in Valencia area, and it is crap. Not remotely similar.

Same thing with the calamares en su tinta, i love them if someone cooks them, but the ones they sell in shops, tinned, i would never eat them as it is nothing to do with the real thing. 

pah! i give up! i can't explainmyself even in spanish... lol!


----------



## jojo

Lolito said:


> ooopps ! I think i have not explained things very well, sorry, but i am on lots of medication right now and i a bit all over the place today.
> 
> What i meant to say is that if you come to Spain and eat something for the first time that you have never tried before, you might either like it or hate it. But you won't know whether the thing you have eaten was done well enough of if it wasn't, i.e, my mum makes a very mean txitxarro al horno and where i come from, they do it very well, but i have tried it here in Valencia area, and it is crap. Not remotely similar.
> 
> Same thing with the calamares en su tinta, i love them if someone cooks them, but the ones they sell in shops, tinned, i would never eat them as it is nothing to do with the real thing.
> 
> pah! i give up! i can't explainmyself even in spanish... lol!


 You explained it beautifully 

Jo xxx


----------



## Pesky Wesky

Lolito said:


> 'in my first years in the UK, I worked at 3 different spanish tapas bars (Portobello, Camden and Fulham), all 3 still open today and I am talking about 1989 and 1990.
> 
> These were packed daily Monday to Sunday a few times over.
> 
> I can assure you all, that all the 'spanish' food was crap, 90% tinned, we used to open the can, empty the contents in a tapas dish and microwave it for 1, 2 o 3 mins and the customers (mostly british) will love it all, even the gazpacho, garbanzos y alubias riojanas were tinned.
> 
> So I would stay away from any 'tapas' bar in the UK.


Just like all the Chinese/ Indian food we eat in the UK or Spain or New York - not authentic. We went to an authentic Chinese restaurant here. Most of the stuff on the menu was not what I'd actually classify as food, let alone eat! Now I know why the Cinese adapt their menus to Western world tastes


----------



## Lynn R

Lolito said:


> 'in my first years in the UK, I worked at 3 different spanish tapas bars (Portobello, Camden and Fulham), all 3 still open today and I am talking about 1989 and 1990.
> 
> These were packed daily Monday to Sunday a few times over.
> 
> I can assure you all, that all the 'spanish' food was crap, 90% tinned, we used to open the can, empty the contents in a tapas dish and microwave it for 1, 2 o 3 mins and the customers (mostly british) will love it all, even the gazpacho, garbanzos y alubias riojanas
> 
> So I would stay away from any 'tapas' bar in the UK.


I wouldn't think the tapas bars are the only ones, either - that's why firms like this exist, it's big business. Please note, they even supply the gravy, ready made.


Nostalgia


----------



## Chica22

Not so much an irritating thing, but more amusing, is why the cashiers at the tills in Mercadona always try and sell you something that you really do not want?

Unloading a weekly shop, I am regularly offered a bathroom cleaning product, stain remover etc. or a salami!!! It never ceases to amaze me. Now if they had some delicious chocolate, cake, cava or wine, surely more people would be tempted.


----------



## Pesky Wesky

Chica22 said:


> Not so much an irritating thing, but more amusing, is why the cashiers at the tills in Mercadona always try and sell you something that you really do not want?
> 
> Unloading a weekly shop, I am regularly offered a bathroom cleaning product, stain remover etc. or a salami!!! It never ceases to amaze me. Now if they had some delicious chocolate, cake, cava or wine, surely more people would be tempted.


In the UK they always ask me if I want cash back or roll back or something like that, and I never do.

In the petrol station here I'm always being offered chocolate or wine or olive oil or something.

Why?
Well I would imagine they are told to do it in an effort to sell more, not for the fun of it!


----------



## Lolito

Mercadona is really a sect. Poor workers!


----------



## baldilocks

Chica22 said:


> Not so much an irritating thing, but more amusing, is why the cashiers at the tills in Mercadona always try and sell you something that you really do not want?
> 
> Unloading a weekly shop, I am regularly offered a bathroom cleaning product, stain remover etc. or a salami!!! It never ceases to amaze me. Now if they had some delicious chocolate, cake, cava or wine, surely more people would be tempted.


Never been offered anything of the sort. Had some free chocolate covered marshmallows given to us in Lidl because they were almost out of date.


----------



## Chica22

baldilocks said:


> Never been offered anything of the sort. Had some free chocolate covered marshmallows given to us in Lidl because they were almost out of date.


Must be just in Mercadona in our area then (how strange). I have never shopped at a Lidils, maybe I should, just for the marshmellows


----------



## Madliz

Pesky Wesky said:


> Just like all the Chinese/ Indian food we eat in the UK or Spain or New York - not authentic. We went to an authentic Chinese restaurant here. Most of the stuff on the menu was not what I'd actually classify as food, let alone eat! Now I know why the Cinese adapt their menus to Western world tastes


- even in China. We visited on our honeymoon, as much for the cuisine as anything else, and the first night in our hotel we were served tinned (Heinz?) tomato soup. They must have known that's what westerners liked to eat!


----------



## Brangus

Chica22 said:


> Not so much an irritating thing, but more amusing, is why the cashiers at the tills in Mercadona always try and sell you something that you really do not want?
> 
> Unloading a weekly shop, I am regularly offered a bathroom cleaning product, stain remover etc. or a salami!!! It never ceases to amaze me. *Now if they had some delicious chocolate, cake, cava or wine, surely more people would be tempted.*


On various occasions Mercadona cashiers have offered me doughnuts, tinto de verano, beer, or fartons with horchata. I can turn down everything but a farton!


----------



## baldilocks

Brangus said:


> On various occasions Mercadona cashiers have offered me doughnuts, tinto de verano, beer, or fartons with horchata. I can turn down everything but a farton!


was that selling or gratis?


----------



## Brangus

baldilocks said:


> was that selling or gratis?


Selling, always selling.

This practice used to irritate my OH no end until we got to know the Mercadona cashiers somewhat and realized that many are our neighbors -- good people just doing their job.


----------



## Pesky Wesky

People working in a shop are told to push a certain product, and they do.
It happens all the time in the UK too. In WSM in the two nearest newsagent's to my sister they often try to sell you what ever it is they've decided to push that day when you go to the till, just like they do at Mercadona, the Campsa petrol station and when I used to work in Peter Lord's when I was at 6th Form.
Is it really an unknown practice?


----------



## Rabbitcat

Exactly Pesky

Indeed a friend of mine was in a hyper store which sells virtually everything.

He was with his wife who had just bought some feminine products so the cashier asked my friend would he like to buy a lawnmower. My friend asked why he was offering him a lawnmower and the cashier said because its obvious you will be doing nothing else for a while so you may as well cut the friggin grass!!!


----------



## baldilocks

Pesky Wesky said:


> People working in a shop are told to push a certain product, and they do.
> It happens all the time in the UK too. In WSM in the two nearest newsagent's to my sister they often try to sell you what ever it is they've decided to push that day when you go to the till, just like they do at Mercadona, the Campsa petrol station and when I used to work in Peter Lord's when I was at 6th Form.
> Is it really an unknown practice?


As I've said, we haven't experienced it, but that may be because it is us. If we were Spanish... IDK


----------



## Pesky Wesky

baldilocks said:


> As I've said, we haven't experienced it, but that may be because it is us. If we were Spanish... IDK


I'm not Spanish either.

Anyway, not to worry, you're not missing anything, I can assure you.


----------



## Isobella

Happens all the time in the UK. Read that some shoe shops give staff a monthly target for selling additional products like shoe cream etc. even M&S food offered me cut price biscuits at the till


----------



## baldilocks

Isobella said:


> Happens all the time in the UK. Read that some shoe shops give staff a monthly target for selling additional products like shoe cream etc. even M&S food offered me cut price biscuits at the till


You mean that you can afford to food-shop in M&S?????????


----------



## Lynn R

Isobella said:


> Happens all the time in the UK. Read that some shoe shops give staff a monthly target for selling additional products like shoe cream etc.


I'd never thought about that until I read your post, but not once have I ever bought shoes in a Spanish shop and had them try to sell me shoe cream, shoe trees, insoles, or whatever. It used to irritate me in the UK.

What I disliked more than anything was when the high street banks started giving their staff targets to flog insurance products, etc. to customers. My bank here haasn't done that either, when I go into the branch.

I don't like people trying to sell me something I don't want, if I wanted whatever it was I'd have bought it anyway before I got to the till, but I don't get annoyed with the staff in Mercadona because it's their managers' fault, not theirs.


----------



## Isobella

That is why I try not to snap when shoe shops try to sell add ons or electrical shops trying to sell costly product insurance because I know the Company are pushing them to do so, although I do get irritated and cut them short. Sol bank can be a bit pushy but haven't come across it in other Spanish shops.


----------



## Chica22

Pesky Wesky said:


> People working in a shop are told to push a certain product, and they do.
> It happens all the time in the UK too. In WSM in the two nearest newsagent's to my sister they often try to sell you what ever it is they've decided to push that day when you go to the till, just like they do at Mercadona, the Campsa petrol station and when I used to work in Peter Lord's when I was at 6th Form.
> Is it really an unknown practice?



I agree certainly common in the UK, but there it seems to be more the type of product that you would buy 'on a whim' whilst at the checkout. Here, well in the Mercadona I use, the products they try and sell are just really obscure. Last week, for example, they asked me if I wanted to buy some cotton wool pads. It just makes me smile, the type of products they offer.


----------



## Alcalaina

Lynn R said:


> I'd never thought about that until I read your post, but not once have I ever bought shoes in a Spanish shop and had them try to sell me shoe cream, shoe trees, insoles, or whatever. It used to irritate me in the UK.


They don't try and sell you three year warranties for electrical goods here either. It used to drive me mad in places like Comet. Sometimes the insurance cost more than the appliance!


----------



## Alcalaina

Chica22 said:


> I agree certainly common in the UK, but there it seems to be more the type of product that you would buy 'on a whim' whilst at the checkout. Here, well in the Mercadona I use, the products they try and sell are just really obscure. Last week, for example, they asked me if I wanted to buy some cotton wool pads. It just makes me smile, the type of products they offer.


They are just trying to get rid of surplus stock. Sometimes they actually give it away. Better than throwing it in a skip, especially for low income families.


----------



## mrypg9

Lolito said:


> Mercadona is really a sect. Poor workers!


I think you will find that Mercadona employees have good pay and conditions for that kind of work and apart from temporary summer season staff, are on permanent contracts.
The pay is slightly higher than most independent supermarkets and all staff receive training. Many are unionised.


----------



## mrypg9

jimenato said:


> Agreed - but you could have left the word _tourist_ out. Also, unless you travel around Spain a bit, the food can get a bit samey.


I've noticed the tendency for people, some people, to use the words 'traveller' or 'travelling' lately. A friend told me only the other day that her son was 'travelling' in Asia.
Do you think travellers get served the same poor food as tourists seem to?


----------



## Lolito

Still a sect Mary, both my sisters work there and my brother in law too, the horror stories they tell me! All phycological tho. My other brother in law was fired because one month he couldn't sell the target of 45 jamones, I remember seeing him shouting 'jamones baratossssssssssss'. lol! 

They get paid well, they also have a bonus in March each year, of course, all depending on the 'appraisal' from your manager, but they all know that one day they do something wrong like eating in the toilet a bar of choc' (my niece) and she was fired there and then. pah! Considering they knew she was diabetic and needed it.

Also, they don't employ people with disabilities, it gives a bad image to customers apparently.


----------



## mrypg9

Lolito said:


> Still a sect Mary, both my sisters work there and my brother in law too, the horror stories they tell me! All phycological tho. My other brother in law was fired because one month he couldn't sell the target of 45 jamones, I remember seeing him shouting 'jamones baratossssssssssss'. lol!
> 
> They get paid well, they also have a bonus in March each year, of course, all depending on the 'appraisal' from your manager, but they all know that one day they do something wrong like eating in the toilet a bar of choc' (my niece) and she was fired there and then. pah! Considering they knew she was diabetic and needed it.
> 
> Also, they don't employ people with disabilities, it gives a bad image to customers apparently.


But how do they get away with firing people for such reasons?


----------



## Lynn R

Lolito said:


> they also have a bonus in March each year, of course, all depending on the 'appraisal' from your manager


I think that's pretty standard in the UK now. In my last 3 years working in the public sector, even if a pay rise was agreed for the organisation, nobody actually got the rise unless their appraisal was satisfactory, let alone a bonus. No such thing as automatic incremental rises any more.


----------



## Pesky Wesky

Isobella said:


> Happens all the time in the UK. Read that some shoe shops give staff a monthly target for selling additional products like shoe cream etc. even M&S food offered me cut price biscuits at the till


That's what I meant about Peter Lord's (it was/ is a shoe shop). There was a shop/ area/ national competition to see who could sell more add ons and you had to be part of it.


----------



## Pesky Wesky

Lolito said:


> Still a sect Mary, both my sisters work there and my brother in law too, the horror stories they tell me! All phycological tho. My other brother in law was fired because one month he couldn't sell the target of 45 jamones, I remember seeing him shouting 'jamones baratossssssssssss'. lol!
> 
> They get paid well, they also have a bonus in March each year, of course, all depending on the 'appraisal' from your manager, but they all know that one day they do something wrong like eating in the toilet a bar of choc' (my niece) and she was fired there and then. pah! Considering they knew she was diabetic and needed it.
> 
> Also, they don't employ people with disabilities, it gives a bad image to customers apparently.


In Mercadona?


----------



## mrypg9

Lynn R said:


> I think that's pretty standard in the UK now. In my last 3 years working in the public sector, even if a pay rise was agreed for the organisation, nobody actually got the rise unless their appraisal was satisfactory, let alone a bonus. No such thing as automatic incremental rises any more.


Once, years ago, we had an inspection by an HMI. I and two others were deemed by the Inspector to be 'Teachers of Excellence'. (One of my rare good, inspirational, Miss Jean Brodie days )
With the award came £1000 reward.
The Head refused to accept it on our behalf as he said it would upset the other staff and be 'divisive', the *******.....


----------



## Lynn R

mrypg9 said:


> Once, years ago, we had an inspection by an HMI. I and two others were deemed by the Inspector to be 'Teachers of Excellence'. (One of my rare good, inspirational, Miss Jean Brodie days )
> With the award came £1000 reward.
> The Head refused to accept it on our behalf as he said it would upset the other staff and be 'divisive', the *******.....


Towards the end of my working life in the UK (up to late 2006) I worked in two different public sector organisations, the Disability Right Commission and the Healthcare Commission, where performance related pay was operated and bonuses paid. I got the highest rating possible 3 years in a row, so I did all right out of it. Your Head was right in a way, though, it is very divisive IMO and also diverts a lot of atttention and time away from the job itself, with people having to write their own "objectives" (to deliver your job description should be your objective IMO), agree them in a meeting with their manager, have monthly one to one "supervision" meetings, a half yearly appraisal and an annual appraisal. It takes up huge amounts of time. In my last job, I had to tell one of my staff he wouldn't be gettting a pay rise that year because despite my interventions throughout the year, arranging extra training for him and another member of staff to mentor him, his work still wasn't satisfactory. He went home that night and tried to commit suicide and I got a phone call the next morning from his father to let me know. You can imagine how I felt. It was no cry for help, either, he sustained a fractured pelvis and two broken legs and was off work for six months.


----------



## mrypg9

Lynn R said:


> Towards the end of my working life in the UK (up to late 2006) I worked in two different public sector organisations, the Disability Right Commission and the Healthcare Commission, where performance related pay was operated and bonuses paid. I got the highest rating possible 3 years in a row, so I did all right out of it. Your Head was right in a way, though, it is very divisive IMO and also diverts a lot of atttention and time away from the job itself, with people having to write their own "objectives" (to deliver your job description should be your objective IMO), agree them in a meeting with their manager, have monthly one to one "supervision" meetings, a half yearly appraisal and an annual appraisal. It takes up huge amounts of time. In my last job, I had to tell one of my staff he wouldn't be gettting a pay rise that year because despite my interventions throughout the year, arranging extra training for him and another member of staff to mentor him, his work still wasn't satisfactory. He went home that night and tried to commit suicide and I got a phone call the next morning from his father to let me know. You can imagine how I felt. It was no cry for help, either, he sustained a fractured pelvis and two broken legs and was off work for six months.


That's awful and I don't really like your post but 'like' it, you know what I mean..

Yes, everything you say is quite right. We wasted so much time on Performance Management...silly meetings with small groups of colleagues, one acting as 'appraisor'. We had a pink folder with sheets of tick boxes and other daft 'criteria by which to judge our own and others 'performances'. I remember that we had to decide on three objectives for professional and personal development...one relating to developing our 'professionalism', one relating to specific objectives with our student group (not strangling one of the little ******s could have been my objective) and one personal objective which could be anything not work-related, like learning Mandarin or winning first prize in the village Fruit and Vegetable Show. I used to toy with the idea of writing something like 'Having wild sex with fifty strangers before the end of the month'.
All this was a total waste of time that could have been spent on planning lessons, interviewing students, you know, doing the job we were paid to do.
What was most irritating was that after a solemn start, the whole daft process seemed gradually to lose impetus and get forgotten about. After a few months the little pink folders got lost and group meetings ended up as gossip or bitching sessions. 
Didn't stop the whole silly charade from starting up again at the start of the next academic year, though...

I bet they don't do that kind of thing in Spain.


----------



## Lynn R

How I wish they could have been forgotten about in the organisations I worked in! However, since it was part of my own objectives to make sure they happened (and every monthly supervision meeting for every member of staff had to be written up afterwards and kept on file, too) unfortunately that wasn't an option. If I asked one member of staff to take on some extra responsibility, or a new project, or represent us at some meeting or other, it would cause much resentment and whining from the others who hadn't been chosen because they would see it as giving the "chosen" person an advantage when it came to their appraisals.

And lest anyone think that this only happens in the public sector, whilst I'm sure it doesn't in small businesses, my OH worked for a large travel company, my brother works in IT for a multi-national and my nephew works for BT, and they did/do have to jump through all the same hoops.


----------



## mrypg9

Lynn R said:


> How I wish they could have been forgotten about in the organisations I worked in! However, since it was part of my own objectives to make sure they happened (and every monthly supervision meeting for every member of staff had to be written up afterwards and kept on file, too) unfortunately that wasn't an option. If I asked one member of staff to take on some extra responsibility, or a new project, or represent us at some meeting or other, it would cause much resentment and whining from the others who hadn't been chosen because they would see it as giving the "chosen" person an advantage when it came to their appraisals.
> 
> And lest anyone think that this only happens in the public sector, whilst I'm sure it doesn't in small businesses, my OH worked for a large travel company, my brother works in IT for a multi-national and my nephew works for BT, and they did/do have to jump through all the same hoops.


I saw a programme on BBC a while ago about a branch of NatWest somewhere in the Midlands. The staff had to attend a meeting once a week, I think it was, where they had to say what they had achieved during the past week, what they could have done better, how they could improve in future... that sort of thing. Like one of those socialist-era works meetings my Czech friend used to describe..
What struck me most was that the Manager, a youngish woman, was responsible for sixty staff yet earned less than £30k p.a.
I bet she gets pissed off when people bang on about bankers with huge salaries and bonuses.

And no, small and medium sized businesses these days are too busy struggling to survive to waste time on performance management...they have to perform to keep their jobs.


----------



## Lynn R

And don't get me started about PRINCE2 Project Management.

How on earth did anything ever get done before all this b····x was invented?


----------



## Pesky Wesky

mrypg9 said:


> I bet they don't do that kind of thing in Spain.


:lol::bounce:ound: :lol:

Uhhh.

No, you're quite right.

On the other hand OH has had to work with teachers who pass their class time reading newspapers or in the school cafeteria for example,which I don't think would happen in the UK, so being less accountable doesn't give good results either.


----------



## Lynn R

mrypg9 said:


> one personal objective which could be anything not work-related, like learning Mandarin or winning first prize in the village Fruit and Vegetable Show. I used to toy with the idea of writing something like 'Having wild sex with fifty strangers before the end of the month'.


That reminds me - my last ever personal objective said "to sell my house and move to Spain". By that time I was past caring whether they thought I was being flippant or not, but actually I was deadly serious. And it was achieved, in full, well before the end of the year so I guess that counted as a resounding success but sadly I didn't stick around long enough to collect the pay rise.


----------



## mrypg9

Pesky Wesky said:


> :lol::bounce:ound: :lol:
> 
> Uhhh.
> 
> No, you're quite right.
> 
> On the other hand OH has had to work with teachers who pass their class time reading newspapers or in the school cafeteria for example,which I don't think would happen in the UK, so being less accountable doesn't give good results either.


I wouldn't describe that performance management pantomime as being accountable, though.
What your OH experienced wouldn't, couldn't happen in a UK school, not now although I recall similar experiences when I did a year's teaching before going back to University.
Accountability now comes in the form of league tables and publicly available Inspection Reports. Pressure is put on local education authorities from central government and the LEAs pass it down to the School Heads who pass it on to the teaching staff...There is a lot of pressure on the classroom teacher, what with lesson planning, student progress reports, tracking pupil progress throughout the school career, 'meaningful' marking, i.e. ticks not enough, pertinent comments and 'next steps' suggestions on each piece of work.. then pushy parents...
Btw, red ink has been a huge no-no in schools for some time. Comments must be made in green ink. Ticks and crosses are also no-nos.
I'm not sure that any of this has raised standards of numeracy, literacy and general knowledge of history, geography etc.
Is that sort of lunacy to be found in Spanish schools?



Both my grandsons were educated at prep then public schools, reasonably good ones. Neither will set the world alight with their intellectual genius but they are very polite, thoughtful and pleasant young men.
Some years ago, when one was about fifteen, he rang my son, who was at the time in Spain installing the washing machine in our kitchen, as he had an urgent question to ask. I swear this is true....
The question was: 'Which side of a ruler is inches and which centimetres?'
Well, my son exploded. He danced around the kitchen enraged, I thought he was going to have an apoplectic fit, shouting 'He's thick, ****ing thick, all that money ****ing wasted on their ****ing education....!!!'
My dil said nothing, being aware of her sons' limitations, hence the money spent on giving them an advantage and those important contacts.
Which turned out to pay off as both got good steady jobs within weeks of getting mediocre degrees at a not very well-thought of former Poly university.


----------



## Justina

Who taught your son to installl a machine and could the grandsons do likewise?


----------



## Pesky Wesky

mrypg9 said:


> I wouldn't describe that performance management pantomime as being accountable, though.
> What your OH experienced wouldn't, couldn't happen in a UK school, not now although I recall similar experiences when I did a year's teaching before going back to University.
> Accountability now comes in the form of league tables and publicly available Inspection Reports. Pressure is put on local education authorities from central government and the LEAs pass it down to the School Heads who pass it on to the teaching staff...There is a lot of pressure on the classroom teacher, what with lesson planning, student progress reports, tracking pupil progress throughout the school career, 'meaningful' marking, i.e. ticks not enough, pertinent comments and 'next steps' suggestions on each piece of work.. then pushy parents...
> Btw, red ink has been a huge no-no in schools for some time. Comments must be made in green ink. Ticks and crosses are also no-nos.
> I'm not sure that any of this has raised standards of numeracy, literacy and general knowledge of history, geography etc.
> Is that sort of lunacy to be found in Spanish schools?


No absolutely not!
Red pens reign. The half point or even quarter point is all important and bug*er the comments. They don't make pupils pass or fail the exams, only the *points* do!!!

At secondary level there is no teaching practice, no teacher training to speak of. There are no obligatory class observations at any level, and I'm not sure, but it's probably illegal for a teacher to be observed by peers or heads.

Inspections do take place, but they don't actually see teaching in progress and a teacher can still fail whole classes with out anybody actually questioning the teacher's work...


----------



## mrypg9

Justina said:


> Who taught your son to installl a machine and could the grandsons do likewise?


I don't understand what you mean, Justina....My son has an IT consultancy company, one grandson is working for Disney and is on a cruise ship somewhere in the world, the other, who is very sporty and worked in Switzerland as a ski instructor for a year, is now in the insurance industry. Very different career paths.
My point is that they both benefited from their education not so much intellectually but in terms of what happened after uni - it was primarily knowing people that got them jobs.
That kind of thing used to make me angry when I was working in a school with students from deprived backgrounds, many of whom were highly intelligent and talented but of whom far too many had no prospects of any kind of job and all too often ended up addicted to drugs and/or alcohol.
I attended far too many funerals of young people who ODed.


----------



## Justina

*Machines*



mrypg9 said:


> I don't understand what you mean, Justina....My son has an IT consultancy company, one grandson is working for Disney and is on a cruise ship somewhere in the world, the other, who is very sporty and worked in Switzerland as a ski instructor for a year, is now in the insurance industry. Very different career paths.
> My point is that they both benefited from their education not so much intellectually but in terms of what happened after uni - it was primarily knowing people that got them jobs.
> That kind of thing used to make me angry when I was working in a school with students from deprived backgrounds, many of whom were highly intelligent and talented but of whom far too many had no prospects of any kind of job and all too often ended up addicted to drugs and/or alcohol.
> I attended far too many funerals of young people who ODed.


It was a very simple question since you mentioned the washing machine. Not all men can install machines and it was unlikely that your son learnt at school and even less your grandkids. My husband was very good at getting thi gs working as is my daughter, but my son is hopeless.


----------



## mrypg9

Justina said:


> It was a very simple question since you mentioned the washing machine. Not all men can install machines and it was unlikely that your son learnt at school and even less your grandkids. My husband was very good at getting thi gs working as is my daughter, but my son is hopeless.


Ahh. I see I have always thought that the reason women are attracted to my son isn't for his good looks etc. but for the fact that he is very practical and skilled at most electrical and mechanical stuff from washing machines to motorbikes to plumbing, plastering etc.
I put this down to my having ordered him to do various household jobs like painting, wallpapering and so on from a very early age. Friends accused me of child cruelty but I ignored them. I gave him a Black and Dekker tool set for his fifteenth birthday and told him he could use it to earn his pocket money.
His dad is very practical too. He started professional life as an electronics research engineer before going into politics/housing but always did all his car repairs and all jobs around the house.
Whereas I am the opposite, totally useless in that regard. I can't sew, cook, knit, can only do basic IT things...
Takes all sorts, as my Gran used to say.


----------



## baldilocks

mrypg9 said:


> Ahh. I see I have always thought that the reason women are attracted to my son isn't for his good looks etc. but for the fact that he is very practical and skilled at most electrical and mechanical stuff from washing machines to motorbikes to plumbing, plastering etc.
> I put this down to my having ordered him to do various household jobs like painting, wallpapering and so on from a very early age. Friends accused me of child cruelty but I ignored them. I gave him a Black and Dekker tool set for his fifteenth birthday and told him he could use it to earn his pocket money.
> His dad is very practical too. He started professional life as an electronics research engineer before going into politics/housing but always did all his car repairs and all jobs around the house.
> Whereas I am the opposite, totally useless in that regard. I can't sew, cook, knit, can only do basic IT things...
> Takes all sorts, as my Gran used to say.


But you CAN argue the hind-leg off a donkey when it comes to politics and other themes that interest you.


----------



## The Quilt

tonymar said:


> Ok I give in lets start a doom and gloom list
> 
> Things I DONT like about Spain
> 
> I will start , Again !
> 
> Spanish paper work -- hate it always something missing !!
> 
> Next please
> 
> Cheers Tony


 Things I don't like about Spain is foreigners living here(with short memories) moaning about everything and anything.


----------



## mrypg9

baldilocks said:


> But you CAN argue the hind-leg off a donkey when it comes to politics and other themes that interest you.


But many would not consider being able to do that as 'useful'...
I did it from an early age, though, and my Gran used to apply the same 'hind leg off a donkey' epithet, plus ' Always has to have the last word'.
In our house I was referred to as 'Matilda', not sure why but I think after a character in a children's book.


----------



## tonysbs

There are many annoying things everywere you are in the world like an african women told me walking to school with my daughter after i moaned about the ****ty summer we were getting and she replied you must embrace the weather here.
I will remind myself how great the weather is everyday how cheap the diesel is how cheap the food is etc etc,
and that i will embrace the language and not suclude myself just to the english.
Get around the red tape and enjoy....


----------

