# Driving Licences



## Simply Simon (Jan 18, 2019)

I don't know the 'official' rules and I am not interested in an argument or daft PMs telling me how clever the PM'er is and how dumb I am , this is like everything else just an observation of my own real life experiences.

We went to a British Consul meeting a couple of months back there was a chap from Brexpats brexpats.es) who posed an interesting question ' Who could pass a driving test in the Uk in English?' No hands went up, I couldn't. 

He then went on to suggest that passing a Spanish driving test in Spanish might be a smidgeon trickier and that we would need a Spanish licence in 'n' months. 'n' was a number that may have been bigger than 12 or not. I am sure an expert will let me know. My fear was that if the dreadful, awful, stupid, ridiculous 'B' word actually happens then our UK licences might be useless.

So, we have had the medicals (the 'rules' say we didn't need them but the licence feds said we did), our lawyer sent our licences, photos, and 800 documents off to wherever it was (so much paperwork, I have lost track) - we have temporary permits and are waiting for our Spanish licences.

I don't know if we actually needed to swap our licences, who knows? Maybe its worth thinking about if you don't have a Spanish licence?


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Simply Simon said:


> I don't know the 'official' rules and I am not interested in an argument or daft PMs telling me how clever the PM'er is and how dumb I am , this is like everything else just an observation of my own real life experiences.
> 
> We went to a British Consul meeting a couple of months back there was a chap from Brexpats brexpats.es) who posed an interesting question ' Who could pass a driving test in the Uk in English?' No hands went up, I couldn't.
> 
> ...


One advantage of having a Spanish licence is that frequently, it will be accepted as a form of identification and thus save you having to carry your passport with you. I have lived here over ten years and the only time I carry my passport with me is when we go on holiday to a different area. Another advantage of using your Spanish d/l as an identification is it has your NIE number on it. The process of changing is relatively easy, much better than having to do the Spanish driving test. Renewals (over 70) are simple - go to a local testing centre have a quick medical and that's it, your new licence will arrive in the post.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Simply Simon said:


> I don't know the 'official' rules and I am not interested in an argument or daft PMs telling me how clever the PM'er is and how dumb I am , this is like everything else just an observation of my own real life experiences.
> 
> We went to a British Consul meeting a couple of months back there was a chap from Brexpats brexpats.es) who posed an interesting question ' Who could pass a driving test in the Uk in English?' No hands went up, I couldn't.
> 
> ...


Not sure what you mean by your opening sentences (PM on this forum usually means Personal Message), but anyway, here goes.
There are 2 things here, people who are residing in Spain permanently and those who are on holiday. Add to that mix pre and post Brexit, so 4 different possible scenarios, not 2.
Pre Brexit

1. British person on holiday in Spain and wanting to drive.

Nothing special needed.
2. British person who is living in Spain.
After 2 years or before needs to exchange the licence for a Spanish one. This doesn't mean the driver must take the Spanish driving test, which is why it's called exchange (canje), but a medical is required

https://sede.dgt.gob.es/es/tramites...duccion/canje-de-permisos/union-europea.shtml
In Spanish. Best to get it translated by a professional translator if there are any doubts.

Post Brexit
1. British person on holiday in Spain and wanting to drive.
You may need an IDP
2. British person who is living in Spain.
Perhaps there will be a special agreement as there is with Serbia, Peru, Andorra, Japan... Or perhaps not and Brits will have to take a test in Spain like Americans have to


That what I understand anyway


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## Juan C (Sep 4, 2017)

I exchanged my UK D/.L a long time ago. It was straightforward but I don’t remember exactly what I did. At the time I did not speak Spanish. I did the exchange without any help do it was simple 

A few years ago a friend from the Philippines who had a philippines DL which he had obtained before he came to spain through a friend of a friend. He could not drive

On coming to spain I helped him to exchange his philippines licence for a spanish one. He needed the licence, he paid the fee and completed the application form at trafico, and the medical cert. His Spanish DL was sent to him two weeks later. He still cannot actually drive although permitted to do so. He hopes one day to get a car and have a friend teach him to drive it.

I post this to prove how simple the process is 

I would recommend everyone who has decided to live in spain to exchange their U.K. licence. Apart from the Spanish requirement to do it, if it is lost or needs renewing, then unless one actually lives in U.K. they cannot renew in U.K. and of course cannot drive here unless they have the licence in their possession.


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## bikerboy123 (Sep 30, 2018)

This piece of advice is to people who have entitlements on their licences over the standard 'car licence', ie HGV, PSV, TRACKED VEHICLES, MOTORBIKE etc. If you still have access to a British address then contact DVLA to inform them that you have lost/missed placed your licence and apply for a replacement, when you replacement licence arrives check that all your entitlements are still on it, this new licence is the one you use day to day ie renting cars etc the old one is put somewhere safe, ''why'' I hear you ask, well here goes,,,,,, many many people who have renewed their licence have found to their horror that entitlements can now be missing and it is up to YOU to prove that you were entitled to it in the first place, how many of you bikers out there could prove that you took and passed the motorbike test 20/30+ years ago?????, my friend back in Britain has just had to re-take his bike test as he couldn't prove he passed 25 years ago. By keeping a genuine past licence you can use this as proof of being entitled to the missing entitlement. As an aside another of my friends received his licence back with a HGV class1 endorsement, he's never even sat in a HGV lol.


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

bikerboy123 said:


> This piece of advice is to people who have entitlements on their licences over the standard 'car licence', ie HGV, PSV, TRACKED VEHICLES, MOTORBIKE etc. If you still have access to a British address then contact DVLA to inform them that you have lost/missed placed your licence and apply for a replacement, when you replacement licence arrives check that all your entitlements are still on it, this new licence is the one you use day to day ie renting cars etc the old one is put somewhere safe, ''why'' I hear you ask, well here goes,,,,,, many many people who have renewed their licence have found to their horror that entitlements can now be missing and it is up to YOU to prove that you were entitled to it in the first place, how many of you bikers out there could prove that you took and passed the motorbike test 20/30+ years ago?????, my friend back in Britain has just had to re-take his bike test as he couldn't prove he passed 25 years ago. By keeping a genuine past licence you can use this as proof of being entitled to the missing entitlement. As an aside another of my friends received his licence back with a HGV class1 endorsement, he's never even sat in a HGV lol.


Rather than committing fraud, why not simply take a photo or scan a copy into your PC (both sides)?


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

snikpoh said:


> Rather than committing fraud, why not simply take a photo or scan a copy into your PC (both sides)?


Bearing in mind that photo-editing software is freely available and not much skill is required to use it, would such a photo be acceptable?


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## bikerboy123 (Sep 30, 2018)

photos or scanning are not accepted, where's the fraud?


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## Juan C (Sep 4, 2017)

Simply Simon said:


> We went to a British Consul meeting a couple of months back there was a chap from Brexpats brexpats.es) who posed an interesting question ' Who could pass a driving test in the Uk in English?' No hands went up, I couldn't.


Assuming the people, who drive, in the audience were just not too shy to answer, I would find that alarming. It might seem to imply they should stop doing so.

I am aware many Brits who drive in Spain have rather little knowledge of how the rules here are different from those in UK. Hardly any have read the ´Normas de Circulación´ (more or less the equivalent to the UK Highway Code) which must be studied by those taking a driving test in Spain to ensure they have enough knowledge to drive safely. Thus one might reasonably assume that those who have never read it should not be driving, 

Assuming that is so, then may be it would be wise for Spain to insist one needs to pass the theoretical test before the licence is changed, to prove they have sufficient knowledge to drive safely . 

PS One example of how UK and Spain differ are the rules on how one negotiates roundabouts. If you do not know what I mean, that supports what I say !

See http://www.ibexinsure.com/news-item/how-to-drive-in-a-roundabout-in-spain

PPS If one does not LIVE in UK they cannot renew their UK D/L. Read the info on the application form . I think the wording is, ´habitually resides in UK.´ Failing to conform to that is a criminal offence under I believe one of the Road Traffic Acts.


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## Barriej (Jul 23, 2012)

Juan C said:


> Assuming the people, who drive, in the audience were just not too shy to answer, I would find that alarming. It might seem to imply they should stop doing so.
> 
> I am aware many Brits who drive in Spain have rather little knowledge of how the rules here are different from those in UK. Hardly any have read the ´Normas de Circulación´ (more or less the equivalent to the UK Highway Code) which must be studied by those taking a driving test in Spain to ensure they have enough knowledge to drive safely. Thus one might reasonably assume that those who have never read it should not be driving,
> 
> ...


1. Im not sure I could pass todays driving test in the Uk and I do on average 50k miles a year in the Uk and another 10k in other countries. The theory test is passable by guess work having had a licence for the last 40 years. (I did one of those trial tests and passed, so did my son who cannot drive)

2. Doubt if more than 1% of Uk drivers has read the Highway code since passing the test. I drive on a regular basis in about 10 different countries and have never seen a copy of a code to driving from any of them. They exist of course but only learners ever use them. 

3. Roundabouts. What you should do and what people do do. Are a million different things. We have a roundabout here in Shoreham that you get in the outside lane NO MATTER what exit you take. The lines are painted in a spiral. There are accidents here all the time. And because its marked as such, it takes presidence over the highway code (asked a copper a while ago). And people in Spain as in other countries, cut straight across if no-one else on the roundabout (except Canada where there are signs a couple of KM before warning you about a roundabout and giving instructions on how to navigate such) I will look for a picture of it from my last visit.

4. Agree here and having 2 driving licences is illegal, if you are old enough to have the paper counterpart I would just use this to ensure your entitelment remained the same (I still have mine as a back up to show the bike and other stuff i can drive)


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## bikerboy123 (Sep 30, 2018)

''having 2 driving licences is illegal'', ok so after you have checked to see that your new licence has still got all your entitlements on it then bin it, jeezzz it's not like plod is going to kick your door in at 4 in the morning, and if they did, just say that you found the old one yesterday.


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## Simply Simon (Jan 18, 2019)

Juan C said:


> Assuming the people, who drive, in the audience were just not too shy to answer, I would find that alarming. It might seem to imply they should stop doing so.
> 
> I am aware many Brits who drive in Spain have rather little knowledge of how the rules here are different from those in UK. Hardly any have read the ´Normas de Circulación´ (more or less the equivalent to the UK Highway Code) which must be studied by those taking a driving test in Spain to ensure they have enough knowledge to drive safely. Thus one might reasonably assume that those who have never read it should not be driving,
> 
> ...


Alarming? I didn't find it alarming, I doubt if anyone who has held a licence for donkey's years would pass the UK test without lessons and reshaping their driving methods - suggesting they shouldn't be driving - bjaaah! Me and the boss have over 70 years of licence holding between us and if Included my friends and family it would be thousands of years - the only ones I know who have had prangs are two of the grandsons who have recently passed the UK test, so maybe people who CAN pass the test shouldn't be allowed to drive?


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Simply Simon said:


> Alarming? I didn't find it alarming, I doubt if anyone who has held a licence for donkey's years would pass the UK test without lessons and reshaping their driving methods - suggesting they shouldn't be driving - bjaaah! *Me and the boss have over 70 years of licence holding between us* and if Included my friends and family it would be thousands of years - the only ones I know who have had prangs are two of the grandsons who have recently passed the UK test, so maybe people who CAN pass the test shouldn't be allowed to drive?


I can manage 60 years on my own and, in that time. there have been many changes, for example, I no longer need to know how the way a person driving a horse and carriage holds his or her whip signifies the way it is going.


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## bikerboy123 (Sep 30, 2018)

baldilocks said:


> I can manage 60 years on my own and, in that time. there have been many changes, for example, I no longer need to know how the way a person driving a horse and carriage holds his or her whip signifies the way it is going.


LOL! and when did anyone last use the correct hand signals except of course the old universal one (you know the one) to let another driver what you think of them


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## Simply Simon (Jan 18, 2019)

I think the idea of having a medical to exchange/renew your licence is a good'un. I found the computer game thingy stressful, having to keep the two 'cars' on the road, then they test your blood pressure!


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## Juan C (Sep 4, 2017)

Although ‘official sites’ on the internet say the medical rests are the same at all test centres, I have had different experiences at different centres. I have also heard the experience of others. 

For example: in the several (quite a few) tests I have had since changing my licence about 25+ years ago, I have never had a blood pressure test nor heard of anyone else having one.

From my research however I discovered that people who are identified with potential problems, or who have specific medical conditions, are investigated further. 

That may explain, as with the blood pressure test, why some have some tests which others are not subjected to !

PS I do not recall anyone actually failing the medical, although I do know some people who have had a shorter than standard period of validity. One guy was also not permitted to drive more than 25 KMS from his home, not allowed to drive at night and the validity was for just one year. 

In that instance I assisted him to question the reasoning and it was discovered that the result of the medical test had been incorrect. He was re-tested by a Tráfico doctor and restrictions were removed


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

I nearly failed my last medical due to that stupid test with two dots on the bendy road (but as Juan C says, not all centers use that test).

I am still relatively young and I can drive / ride fairly well (I can do a lap of Jarama on a motorbike in under 2 minutes), but that test is stupidly difficult.

After several minutes of the machine buzzing as one off the dots went of the road again and again, the "doctor" said something like "well, good enough I suppose"... 

I am dreading doing it again.


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## Williams2 (Sep 15, 2013)

snikpoh said:


> Rather than committing fraud, why not simply take a photo or scan a copy into your PC (both sides)?


The Photocard license is renewed every 10 years ( unless your approaching your 70 birthday ) 
there's nothing to stop you retaining your old one upon renewal ( in the UK - not sure about
Spain, unless you mislaid it just before renewal ? )
Which is the simplest way of proving your class of vehicle entitlements with a perfectly legit
( but expired & no longer legal to drive ) old photocard driving license.

Which means no photocopying required in the above case.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Williams2 said:


> The Photocard license is renewed every 10 years ( unless your approaching your 70 birthday )
> there's nothing to stop you retaining your old one upon renewal ( in the UK - not sure about
> Spain, unless you mislaid it just before renewal ? )
> Which is the simplest way of proving your class of vehicle entitlements with a perfectly legit
> ...


But in Spain, you don't get to keep your old licence.


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## Williams2 (Sep 15, 2013)

baldilocks said:


> But in Spain, you don't get to keep your old licence.


Thanks for that, I was referring to the UK driving license renewal - and that's why I pointed out
- Not sure about Spain.


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## Juan C (Sep 4, 2017)

baldilocks said:


> But in Spain, you don't get to keep your old licence.


Please don’t tell Tráfico, I have my last three expired Spanish driving licences


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## tarot650 (Sep 30, 2007)

baldilocks said:


> But in Spain, you don't get to keep your old licence.


Just goes to show Baldi old pal you shouldn't believe everything you read on forums.I am looking at 2 of my old licences here right now.LOL.


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## Williams2 (Sep 15, 2013)

And nobody can quibble about the classes of vehicle you can drive on your old license, as opposed to 
photocopies of the same license that can be amended ( thanks to photoshop apps, etc ) if there
were any doubts about the legitimacy of the photocopy.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Overandout said:


> I nearly failed my last medical due to that stupid test with two dots on the bendy road (but as Juan C says, not all centers use that test).
> 
> I am still relatively young and I can drive / ride fairly well (I can do a lap of Jarama on a motorbike in under 2 minutes), but that test is stupidly difficult.
> 
> ...


I don't know what the deal is with that test, but I can tell you you don't have to keep the dots in the lines because I never have and neither has anyone I know. It's impossible!!


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## Williams2 (Sep 15, 2013)

Pesky Wesky said:


> I don't know what the deal is with that test, but I can tell you you don't have to keep the dots in the lines because I never have and neither has anyone I know. It's impossible!!


Yes having done the test myself. It reminded me so much of one of those early computer arcade games back
in the UK of the 1980's - which makes me wonder whether the Spanish bought the royalty rights to one of
these old games; to infuriate all those that are due to apply for a new driving license in the years to come.


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## Juan C (Sep 4, 2017)

Pesky Wesky said:


> I don't know what the deal is with that test, but I can tell you you don't have to keep the dots in the lines because I never have and neither has anyone I know. It's impossible!!


I was told, I do not know if it is correct and have been unable to confirm it online, the test is not keeping within the lines but how long it takes to get back within the lines when you have strayed. So it’s a reaction test

I have been thinking about the question, do I think I could pass a driving test now? 

I passed my motorcycle test on a 500cc when I was 16 and my car test when I was 18. When 22 I attended police motorcycle and car courses. At the conclusion of both I passed and was authorise to drive on duty. 

When I was 57 whilst in USA I took a another test as I wanted a USA D/L. I took that practical test in my Ford Fiesta, which the car I towed with my 30 ft motorhome . 

Having passed all five tests the first time, still riding a 600 cc M/C, a car, riding a road bicycle on busy inter-town roads, and having driven in several countries in Europe and Asia in addition to USA, Spain amd U.K. I think, with a couple of hours confirming I am up to date with the theory, at 79, I could easily pass a car or M/C driving test almost anywhere. As I am sure many others could too.


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

Juan C said:


> I was told, I do not know if it is correct and have been unable to confirm it online, the test is not keeping within the lines but how long it takes to get back within the lines when you have strayed. So it’s a reaction test


Actually, I don't think that is correct, the test centre has to run the test for a certain time (not sure now how long) and the driver has to keep both dots on the road for a minimum of 10% of the run-time. The machine buzzes when either one of the balls goes off the road, so in theory you are supposed to minimise the buzzing to not more than 90% of the time of the test.

So the pass rate is low, but the objective is to actually keep the dots on the road.

At least that is what I was able to find about it when I was researching.

EDIT: Found it, the test is 1 minute and 30 seconds minimum and the pass rate is from 10% to 100%.

https://certimedic.es/test-coordinacion-viso-manual/


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## Juan C (Sep 4, 2017)

Overandout said:


> Actually, I don't think that is correct, the test centre has to run the test for a certain time (not sure now how long) and the driver has to keep both dots on the road for a minimum of 10% of the run-time. The machine buzzes when either one of the balls goes off the road, so in theory you are supposed to minimise the buzzing to not more than 90% of the time of the test.
> 
> So the pass rate is low, but the objective is to actually keep the dots on the road.
> 
> ...


Well having taken that test lots of time in my 32 years here, nevertheless I may be wrong. But I have never actually known or heard of anyone I know, failing. Even a 90 year old friend, who when her new licence arrived cut it up as she said she was unsafe to be on the road.

But as I said what do I know ?


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## Juan C (Sep 4, 2017)

Cancelled too complicated


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## bikerboy123 (Sep 30, 2018)

good current thread about missing entitlements in the flame pit on the motorist forum 'Pepipoo'.


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## captainendeavour (Jan 14, 2016)

Simply Simon said:


> I think the idea of having a medical to exchange/renew your licence is a good'un. I found the computer game thingy stressful, having to keep the two 'cars' on the road, then they test your blood pressure!


Quite so! I never play computer games so that test was pretty demanding. I consider myself, now 70, still sharp on hand/eye coordination but I hit the side of the road several times. The two staff and my gestora cheered me on, saying I was doing OK. I I would have failed me but they passed me.

Then the blood pressure test! OMG! 175/XX! They passed that, too.


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## Juan C (Sep 4, 2017)

Captain. I understand it is not hitting the edges but your reaction to getting back on the road, which is tested 

Juan 
79 still car driver, 600 cc m/c and road racing biker


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## captainendeavour (Jan 14, 2016)

bikerboy123 said:


> LOL! and when did anyone last use the correct hand signals except of course the old universal one (you know the one) to let another driver what you think of them


Two weeks after turning 17, in 1968, I took the test. Never had any lessons from an instructor, just hours on Catterick Camp's Driver Training Ground with my dad, complete with Zebra crossings, 'traffic lights' and Stop signs.

Failed 

1] Crossing arms going round a corner "Bit of a rally driver, are we?"
2] Not winding the window down and waving my arm up and down to signal 'pulling in to the left'. "Did we turn left?. No. What should we have done? ...]


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## captainendeavour (Jan 14, 2016)

Who could pass a driving test in the Uk in English?' Well, I did. I took the bus driver test in 2005, aged 56. I completed the theory test with 100% and in under 5 minutes, They allow 20. 

The Bristol test centre logged that as a new record time for a 100% pass. 

Who's a clever boy, then?


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## Juan C (Sep 4, 2017)

Juan C said:


> Captain. I understand it is not hitting the edges but your reaction to getting back on the road, which is tested
> 
> Juan
> 79 still car driver, 600 cc m/c and road racing biker


Ps. I passed car and M/C tests first time without any lessons. Some years later did the car and m/c courses with the police and passed those too. That was all a long time ago !!


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## Juan C (Sep 4, 2017)

Juan C said:


> Juan C said:
> 
> 
> > Captain. I understand it is not hitting the edges but your reaction to getting back on the road, which is tested
> ...


PPS. When I was 67 passed car (30 ft motor home ) test in Florida after reading their ‘Highway code’.


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## captainendeavour (Jan 14, 2016)

Juan C said:


> Captain. I understand it is not hitting the edges but your reaction to getting back on the road, which is tested
> 
> Juan
> 79 still car driver, 600 cc m/c and road racing biker


Juan, as you have been there, done that - exchanged your licence for turning 70, can you [or anybody] clear this up.

Back in May I turned in my UK licence to get a SP one. I considered sooner rather than later a better bet, having just registered as resident and with my 70th b/d and Brexit looming.

My licence, UK or SP, would have expired 19/08/'19 and a new one for 70 y.o. then req'd. Trafico issued a 3 month provisional [which ran out 15 days before 19/08] and, 89 days after my application, issued a SP licence.

We [myself and gestora] presumed they had held off issuing a licence valid for only 95 days, issuing one starting from Day 1 of the 70. y.o. licence

This licence was post dated* 07/05/'19 start and 07/05/'24 end*. Thus my new licence will expire 95 days before I am obliged to renew it.

Is this standard practice or should they have issued the new licence dated from expiry of original UK licence?


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## captainendeavour (Jan 14, 2016)

Juan C said:


> Ps. I passed car and M/C tests first time without any lessons. Some years later did the car and m/c courses with the police and passed those too. That was all a long time ago !!


Congrats! My bus driver instructor told me that the bus driving test [UK] is the hardest test for 'a driver not wearing uniform - poilce/military etc]


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## Juan C (Sep 4, 2017)

Captain

I think you misunderstood what happened.

When you have a licence exchanged you get a temporary licence not a provisional, valid for three months, although another can be issued for a further three months, if the DL has not been issued for some treason. (Mine was once lost in the post so I need a second temporary one). That is because in Spain one must have their DL with them at all times when driving.

There is no special DL for over 70. It runs for the appropriate period, depended on age and medical condition, from the date issued. 

From what I remember, my Spanish DL ran from the day I applied for it, certainly not from when my UK was due to expire, some 25 years in the future when I would have been 70 and, had I still been in UK, time to renew my UK D/L


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## MataMata (Nov 30, 2008)

bikerboy123 said:


> ''having 2 driving licences is illegal''


 :boink:That refers to two separate EU driving licences NOT expired ones kicking around in a drawer, doh!

EU rules mean that when exchanging a licence the most recent one issued instantly cancels and invalidates any and all others so 'losing' a UK licence in order to fraudulently obtain a replacement to hang onto when applying for a Spanish one is futile.

Surrendered licences are returned to the issuing authorities in order for them to update their records which means, for obvious reasons, it's the shiny new one which you will have to surrender, the cancelled licence you're left with being a completely worthless piece of plastic useful only for scraping ice off a windscreen!

Whilst living in France I had personal knowledge of a case where somebody did surrender a supposedly lost licence in exchange for a French one, he wanted to keep the heavier vehicle groups on the UK licence to be able to tow a double horse box and in France that would have meant annual medicals.

It was nearly a year later when his fraud was reported back to the French authorities by DVLA that the gendarmes knocked on his door and arrested him. He was taken to court, heavily fined, and ordered to take a French driving test before being allowed to drive again.

For anyone worried about losing entitlements on a UK licence then for £5 (payable by card but by phone request only) DVLA will send you a 'Letter of Entitlement' which lists your entitlements and in essence is what the Spanish will be requesting prior to exchanging a UK licence for a Spanish one, albeit I doubt they will be phoning or paying a fiver each time, but it's the process all the same. Obtaining that verification of entitlement, which the EU directive on driving licences requires licence authorities to do, is one of the main reasons for the delays which occur.

Although the document is only valid for three months in terms of possible future disputes with DVLA then even expired they they cannot argue with their own letter!


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## VFR (Dec 23, 2009)

captainendeavour said:


> Congrats! My bus driver instructor told me that the bus driving test [UK] is the hardest test for 'a driver not wearing uniform - poilce/military etc]


May have been a good few years back (London Transport days) but the standards have dropped way down now, spend anytime driving around London now and you will see for yourself.
Remember watching a fly on the wall program a few years back that followed a group of (i think) mainly women going through the recruitment / training scheme to become bus drivers and no matter how bad a few were they all passed.
Military ?, well I used to go in for the Lorry Driver of the year comp a good few years back & it is just like an extended HGV test.
One section is manoeuvring / reversing in a very big test area & the military drivers were the worst there every year which surprised me as I thought they would spend a lot of time training beforehand unlike most of the commercial drivers.


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