# RP becoming harder to get?



## joaquinx (Jul 3, 2010)

Interest post on Facebook about a couple applying for a RP and being denied and had to settle for a RT. The reason was:_ "We met with very nice staff who informed us that while we fully met the requirements for permanent residency, at this time, they are under orders from the MX government to only grant "temporal". He was very kind and shook his head and said "due to current situation"!!! "_


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## TurtleToo (Aug 23, 2013)

Not a good omen. Still, it would be very surprising if everything just continued to roll along as before. (Before = when the US and Mexico treated each other as friendly neighbors, allies, and cooperative trading partners.) 

..


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

joaquinx said:


> Interest post on Facebook about a couple applying for a RP and being denied and had to settle for a RT. The reason was:_ "We met with very nice staff who informed us that while we fully met the requirements for permanent residency, at this time, they are under orders from the MX government to only grant "temporal". He was very kind and shook his head and said "due to current situation"!!! "_


That is very interesting. I wonder if it is a general policy coming from Mexico City or some lower level within INM.


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## lagoloo (Apr 12, 2011)

TundraGreen said:


> That is very interesting. I wonder if it is a general policy coming from Mexico City or some lower level within INM.


I surely hope this isn't an omen of things to come.:fingerscrossed:


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## AlanMexicali (Jun 1, 2011)

TundraGreen said:


> That is very interesting. I wonder if it is a general policy coming from Mexico City or some lower level within INM.


Or more likely another Facebook troll trying to excite people over the Trump pushback "possibly" happening/going to happen in Mexico by the Mexican federal government against US citizens. I have seen this in other forms about the Mexican Federal government institutes on other webboads this week and I feel it is BS. All were unsubstantiated claims of discrimination in opposition to the federal governments laws and rules against Americans. Watch for more made up stories to come. IMO


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## lagoloo (Apr 12, 2011)

So......maybe "FAKE NEWS". OMG.

...But not necessarily, so is there any way to get the *official* word on this?


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## esga (Feb 9, 2017)

I saw that also. We know that consulates don't all do the same thing in the same way. That couple reported their experience, and someone else reported they'd had no trouble at another consulate. I don't think it's someone trying to spread panic and false news, and I also don't think there's reason to assume it's the shape of things to come. I remember someone else being told in the last month or so that the particular consulate they went to was not processing any applications for residency, because they were anticipating having their hands full helping Mexican nationals who are being deported, or afraid of being deported. That also will differ from place to place.


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## TurtleToo (Aug 23, 2013)

AlanMexicali said:


> Or more likely another Facebook troll trying to excite people over the Trump pushback "possibly" happening/going to happen in Mexico by the Mexican federal government against US citizens. I have seen this in other forms about the Mexican Federal government institutes on other webboads this week and I feel it is BS. All were unsubstantiated claims of discrimination in opposition to the federal governments laws and rules against Americans. Watch for more made up stories to come. IMO


Well, I'm not so sure. While you could well be right, and that would not be at all surprising, there are a couple of things that give me pause. There is a kind of well-considered precision in choosing this particular group, RP applicants. No economic cost to Mexico is incurred, since most RP hopefuls will accept the RT, and still end up in Mexico spending their $$$. 

Refusing 180-day visitante status, on the other hand, would cost the country financially, as well as being much more noticeable. Changing the visa waiver system could create some drama, and an escalation of tension, not to mention fewer tourists. But offering RT status to RP applicants costs nothing, and is unlikely to set off any diplomatic alarms. Mexico still gets its new money-spending residents, but on a wait-and-see basis until more is known about how US-Mexico relations will shake out. It seems a pretty carefully balanced position to me--not taking on any more permanent US immigrants, but not refusing them either. And not escalating the situation. If the current tensions blow over, or are resolved, they can proceed to becoming permanent residents in a few years. If not . . . 

Or, you could be right, and it's just a troll! If one of those other forums you mention is the one I am thinking of, it is swarming with wild-eyed nasty creatures armed with sharp little knives and too few active brain cells to sustain a rational thought. 

.


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## rohbear (Feb 28, 2017)

AlanMexicali said:


> Or more likely another Facebook troll trying to excite people over the Trump pushback "possibly" happening/going to happen in Mexico by the Mexican federal government against US citizens. I have seen this in other forms about the Mexican Federal government institutes on other webboads this week and I feel it is BS. All were unsubstantiated claims of discrimination in opposition to the federal governments laws and rules against Americans. Watch for more made up stories to come. IMO


Unfortunately, these days, unless it's a first-person account, you have to have doubt about the truth of anything you see online.


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## cscscs007 (Jan 8, 2011)

I have seen this, but I just don't believe it. If someone qualifies for a category the usual routine is to approve their documents and let INM do the final approval once in Mexico. Consulates only do pre-approval and not the whole process. You can be pre-approved in the US and still be denied at INM if you don't meet the criteria at the INM office where you go. Whether this actually happens, I don't know, as I have never been issued a denial as of yet.


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## joaquinx (Jul 3, 2010)

rohbear said:


> Unfortunately, these days, unless it's a first-person account, you have to have doubt about the truth of anything you see online.


There were two persons, one in Arizona and one in Texas, who said that they were denied the RP and offered a RT.


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## RVGRINGO (May 16, 2007)

joaquinx said:


> There were two persons, one in Arizona and one in Texas, who said that they were denied the RP and offered a RT.


I suspect that the reason was insufficient financial proofs; nothing more sinister.
That said; all of this thread is based upon rumor and hearsay. No facts have been presented; just imagination and suspicion.


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## Bodega (Apr 20, 2016)

*My RP*

Just got my RP card (within the last two weeks) and the process seemed no more strenuous than the one I went through for RT. A nice young man named Ramses in the Querétaro office worked with me, completely professional but maybe a bit nicer than he has to be.


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## eastwind (Jun 18, 2016)

Congrats! How many years had you been on RT and how many times had you renewed the RT?


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## Bodega (Apr 20, 2016)

*RT*

One 1 year RT, one 2 year RT, then RP. Time flies. My wife is Mexican, don't know how much that helped, if any. I don't recall that much was asked about her.


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## circle110 (Jul 20, 2009)

Bodega said:


> One 1 year RT, one 2 year RT, then RP. Time flies. My wife is Mexican, don't know how much that helped, if any. I don't recall that much was asked about her.


Since your wife is Mexican you are only required to spend 2 years as RT instead of the normal 4. So, that fact definitely helped you because you made RP in only 3.


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## DebInFL (Dec 1, 2016)

I wonder if this is also going to make it harder to renew a Visitor's Visa. I want to move down, stay a year, then decide if I want to go RP. I don't really meet requirements for an RP right now, but I will meet RT requirements in a year or so of living in a cheaper place, then can work my way up to RP, if I want to. 

I have one friend who has been living in MX for 7 years on visitor's visas, and she said they sort of balked at renewing hers last time. She didn't know if it was because of her long residency, or because of Trump, but she says she heard they want people to move their money down to MX if they stay over a year.


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## surabi (Jan 1, 2017)

You can't move down for a year on a Tourist visa. They are only good for 180 days. If you just go up to the border then, do an immediate turn around and reapply for another tourist visa, you may very well be denied. Some have been, and with the current political climate, I could see them becoming stricter about this. 

Am not suggesting you go through all the rigamarole of getting a TR before even knowing that you actually will want to live here, but maybe plan on after the 180 day visa is expired, that you spend a couple weeks up north doing some shopping (I'm sure you'll have a list by then of things you want but can't find here), visiting, etc. before coming back on another tourist visa. Or maybe you'll love it here and just go for the TR up north after the 180 days are up.

Unless the madman self-destructs or is removed, I foresee people being able to live in Mexico for 7 years on a tourist visa becoming impossible.


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## eastwind (Jun 18, 2016)

Who has been denied a second 180-day tourist entry?


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## DebInFL (Dec 1, 2016)

eastwind said:


> Who has been denied a second 180-day tourist entry?


I didn't say anyone had been. I said that border runs may be getting cracked down on. They did this in Thailand. Not sure, but they made you leave for a certain amount of time before you could come back. 

I can't afford to hang around shopping for a couple of weeks in the U.S. to get back in, and I'm certainly not going to leave all my stuff there if I don't know if I can come back. 

This is just crazy. One day, the President of Mexico is saying he welcomes us to come to Mexico, then the gov't starts hassling us at the border. Well, we're even hassliing people from Quebec now, so what can we expect? 

I may have to just tough it out here until this nightmare is over. I can't take the chance of having nowhere to go and not being able to get back in to get my stuff.


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## surabi (Jan 1, 2017)

I was not suggesting that you would not be allowed back into Mexico on another 180 day tourist visa. But there have been reports on several Mexican expat forums stating that people were questioned, told it wasn't the intent of a tourist visa, etc, (as you yourself said, your friend reported that INM agent "kind of balked" when she did a turn-around renewal) when just crossing the border north and immediately crossing back and applying for another tourist visa.

I have never heard that Mexico wants people to move their money here if staying long term, and there is nothing anywhere that suggests or states this. In fact, many expats never open a Mexican bank account and just get their funds by wire transfers, or ATMs. But really, the intent of a tourist visa is that you are a tourist. It doesn't seem unreasonable that people who take up residency should be expected to apply for residency.


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## eastwind (Jun 18, 2016)

Sorry, I was just responding to surabi, who said "some have been [denied]". I'd like to separate fact from reasonable concern and reasonable concern from less reasonable concern.

There are so many differences between Mexico and Thailand that I think Thailand is not a good model for use in predicting what will happen with Mexico's attitude toward immigration during the Trump Presidency. Mexicans and Thais think in such different ways that they are likely to react at least somewhat differently even if the situations were the same.


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## DebInFL (Dec 1, 2016)

I'm just saying I'm not in a financial situation to be able to get an RT yet, so I can't take a chance that a border run will go wrong and I'll have to leave everything I own in MX. I would literally have no place to go if that happened. 

I always like to be on the safe side, so it's safer for me to just give up the dream for now, or else not renew my Visa and be an illegal in MX! LOL I was watching a YouTube vid on that, and it seems the authorities are not too hot on throwing people out of the country who are spending money and not breaking any laws. I wish our government felt that way.


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## eastwind (Jun 18, 2016)

surabi said:


> I was not suggesting that you would not be allowed back into Mexico on another 180 day tourist visa. But there have been reports on several Mexican expat forums stating that people were questioned, told it wasn't the intent of a tourist visa, etc, (as you yourself said, your friend reported that INM agent "kind of balked" when she did a turn-around renewal) when just crossing the border north and immediately crossing back and applying for another tourist visa.


Yes. Its one thing for an immigration official to point out that they can see you're doing a border run and kind of push back on you a little bit and suggest nicely that you really should apply for an RT. It's quite a different thing for them to tell you you simply can't enter. 

I suspect the only way to get flat out denied is to get defensive or belligerent with them when they question you. If you politely promise them that this is the very last time and next time you'll get an RT, I bet you can continue doing border runs for years.


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## DebInFL (Dec 1, 2016)

eastwind said:


> Yes. Its one thing for an immigration official to point out that they can see you're doing a border run and kind of push back on you a little bit and suggest nicely that you really should apply for an RT. It's quite a different thing for them to tell you you simply can't enter.
> 
> I suspect the only way to get flat out denied is to get defensive or belligerent with them when they question you. If you politely promise them that this is the very last time and next time you'll get an RT, I bet you can continue doing border runs for years.


Yes, I imagine that it being your second visitor visa and your 14th would make a great deal of difference. She got through by telling them that she had to get a prescription for meds she could not get in MX, and showed them her prescription, and also to shop for things she could not get in MX. It helped, I think, that she spoke fluent Spanish and that she lives in Baja, which has a bit different rules than the rest of MX, or so she says. According to her, there is some sort of trade agreement between the U.S. and Baja that allows people to bring their cars in on visitor visas and not have to register them with in MX, and people are allowed to pass freely back and forth over the border with a valid visa. She had no problem freely going back and forth until she tried to do the last border run. 

I believe it's not so much the government, but the border personnel who are angry about Trump's policies and are making arbitrary decisions. Can't blame them. If MX suddenly said "no more Visas" when we let them come in freely on work visas, I would feel the same way. It is demeaning to throw out all of their people and expect them to let us just come and go as we please.


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## eastwind (Jun 18, 2016)

Mexicans who have a valid passport can get a US B-2 visa to enter the US for tourism. Both countries also have work visas that can be obtained by following the applicable rules. That's fair, isn't it? 

Both countries expect people to follow their laws and not just come and go as they please. That's fair, isn't it?

If you could come and go as you please to Mexico, you wouldn't be on this forum asking about the requirements.

As US citizens, we expect our border agents to follow the laws and not make up their own. And if they do, we have courts to overrule them. That's fair, isn't it?

What do you suppose would happen in the US if a US immigration agent decided on their own that they weren't going to let in people from certain countries even when those people had correct documentation? Would you have blamed them if they'd started doing that after 9/11?


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## joaquinx (Jul 3, 2010)

eastwind said:


> What do you suppose would happen in the US if a US immigration agent decided on their own that they weren't going to let in people from certain countries even when those people had correct documentation? Would you have blamed them if they'd started doing that after 9/11?


They are already doing this. That's not fair. Is it?


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## eastwind (Jun 18, 2016)

If immigration agents are making up their own rules, they should be fired and jailed. Just like any other law enforcement officer that swears to uphold the law and then refuses to enforce it because they don't agree with it.

I'm not referring to President Trump's executive order, that's not the same as an individual agent changing the rules, because agents don't have that authority. And President Trump will have his authority to issue his EO's litigated. And he will abide by the result of that litigation, as he has already shown by replacing the EO that a court found fault with.


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## Ajijic Lady (Jan 19, 2009)

FWIW, we got our preliminary RP's at the Orlando FL consulate last month. They were very helpful via email prior to our appointment. We were in and out in an hour.


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

comparing the visa process to get into Mexico to the one a Mexican needs to go through to enter the US is ludicrous. Many Mexicans are turned down for tourist visa and no reason has to be given and they do not get their 2000 something pesos back either.
I help people from Chiapas to apply for starters they need to go to Mexico city or Merida for 2 interviews on 2 different days then pay the fee then get turn down without reason given.. and that is the way it is folks so getting a tourist visa to get into Mexico is a piece of cake then if you want to apply for a visa to work or stay over whatever days they want to give you the real fun start..


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## horseshoe846 (Feb 8, 2017)

I don't know. We have a close Mexican friend, perhaps mid 30's, and last year this time she received a 10 year visa from the US. She visits friends in the US perhaps twice a year. She is a teacher in Mexico City. To be honest I don't know how she can afford all her travel. Last year her entire family went on vacation to Europe. We have been to her parent's house many times. Neither of her parents work. They live very low middle class. They have two small VWs. In December we got together for lunch and she insisted that she pick up the tab 'since we always pay'. i'm happy she is so happy.


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## eastwind (Jun 18, 2016)

citali, I wasn't comparing the processes, I was pointing out that they existed in an attempt to destroy DebInFl's false equivalence:



DebInFL said:


> It is demeaning to throw out all of their people and expect them to let us just come and go as we please.


I was responding to both halves of DebInFl's statement.

The first half, implying that we're throwing out all the Mexicans in the country, is demonstrably untrue. First of all, we have a process for legal entry and legal work in the US (tourist visa, H1-B and H2-B visas) and no one is talking about throwing Mexicans out who are in the country legally on any of those visas. Moreover, we are not throwing out all the people in the country illegally. Nor are we even throwing out all the people in the country illegally who are also working illegally (breaking not just immigration but employment laws). 

The second half of DebInFl's statement was that we expect Mexico to allow us to come and go as we please. That's also an emotional statement, and not fact-based. As a matter of foreign policy, the US supports the right of Mexico, as a sovereign nation, to set rules for tourism and visas and conditions under which foreigners can work in Mexico. And by and large US citizens respect those laws and there are not vast numbers of US citizens illegally living and working in Mexico. And the fact that DebInFl is on this forum asking about the rules is a case in point that she does not expect to be allowed to come and go as she pleases. 

There are legal processes for tourist travel in both directions. They don't need to be the same. It is not unfair that they are not the same. It is fair that every nation sets its own rules according to its own perceived needs, without respect to the wishes of people from other countries. That's what sovereignty is about. Each country makes their own rules based on their desired balance between attracting tourism and ensuring security and protecting their own people's jobs.

The US has a big problem with people overstaying tourist visas, so it makes perfect sense to assess a tourist visa applicant's likelihood of overstaying or of trying to work illegally while in the country on a tourist visa. The only people that Mexicans should blame for the difficulty in getting a tourist visa to the US are the many Mexicans who have gone before them and broken the laws.


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## horseshoe846 (Feb 8, 2017)

I believe there is a sizable number of Canadian/American expats currently in Mexico illegally. If I were in any position of power in Mexico - I would increase the military checkpoints to check credentials etc.


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

In the last 16 years I have lived in Mexico I never had my credentials checked in Jalisco or Chiapas.
I was checked a few times on a bus in Vera Cruz and Tabasco..


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## ExpatEmigre (Nov 22, 2015)

horseshoe846 said:


> I believe there is a sizable number of Canadian/American expats currently in Mexico illegally. If I were in any position of power in Mexico - I would increase the military checkpoints to check credentials etc.


To what end? Just to do it? What would be the benefit to Mexico in doing so?
To be sure, I have legal residence & it wouldn't impact me, but I'm curious as to why you would do what you say you would do if you had the power to do it. Just to show your power?


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## horseshoe846 (Feb 8, 2017)

Why do police have speed traps ?

In our Mexican state there were a lot of cars being driven without insurance. So - they changed the design of the plates and required everyone to replace them - with the requirement of showing proof on insurance.

Why would a Canadian or American be in Mexico illegally ? Many years ago I overstayed a visa (in another country). I was just an arrogant American. Looking back it is kind of interesting how it was handled. They didn't take me to the border. They stamped my passport 'exceso permanencia' and said I had something like 3 days to get out for good - which I did. I think those NOB expats currently in Mexico illegally are just being arrogant. 

We recently took a trip to Ixtapa - between Acapulco and Ixtapa there were two military checkpoints. They didn't ask us for anything. Pretty much they just looked into the car and told us to proceed. But if they had I would not have minded.


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## perropedorro (Mar 19, 2016)

citlali said:


> In the last 16 years I have lived in Mexico I never had my credentials checked in Jalisco or Chiapas.
> I was checked a few times on a bus in Vera Cruz and Tabasco..


I've no idea where you live or hang out in Chiapas, but my recent border experience was different. Went to Guatemala three weeks ago and re-entering Mexico both documents and possessions are well-checked at Talismán. Then again at a checkpoint only about 2 kilometers in. The driver got a call tipping him off so he stopped halfway there and announced it, in case anyone wanted to get off. About a third of the passengers did. The migra inspection lasted a while with officials targeting a young woman from whom one took her residence card and walked away with it. Then another asked for ID two minutes later, clearly harassment. Another five inspections on the 250 km. bus ride from Tapachula to Arriaga, at three of which all passengers had to collect belongings, get off, and go through inspections. I understand that this is done by Mexico at the behest of the Mérida Initiative and the U.S. foots the bill for it. As for undocumented immigrants, both Central Americans and a considerable number from anywhere else in the world, Mexico also has some interest given that if they're allowed to continue it's likely they'll get stuck in Tijuana, unable to pass into the U.S. There's already a substantial accumulation of Haitians and many are applying to Mexico for refugee status.


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## ExpatEmigre (Nov 22, 2015)

horseshoe846 said:


> Why do police have speed traps ?


Arguably to lower speeds & improve safety. I presume you're suggesting that it merely is to raise revenue. In my experience, Mexicans generally & the Mexican government more specifically rightfully are shrewder than that. The ease of being here is a big draw for many gringos & their dollars. I don't see officials wanting negatively to impact that. But then again, I live in Puerto Vallarta, so my experiences necessarily are coloured by the driving forces of this locality, which may not be characteristic of much of the republic.


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## horseshoe846 (Feb 8, 2017)

I guess I could have worded that question differently. In reality I meant police anywhere. And the answer I had in mind was to enforce the law. 

Ok, we have permanent residency, but we are still required to inform INM of any substantive change in our situation (address, employment status etc) - and we do. But if we didn't, and we somehow got caught, I think Mexico would have the right to re-evaluate our status. Just as I think that Mexico has the right to know the legality of all within its borders.


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## Orfin (Sep 26, 2016)

And thats not helping my concerns about the drive back to USA after my 6 months tourist stay is done.
I know they have more checkpoints on the way back and may decide to increase their scrutiny of US returnees.
Also at the border on the US side coming back in. I won't be surprised i get a full and bruising internal cavity invasion ,and my car fully dismantled without the courtesy to hand me a wrench when they bark at me to put my vehicle back together and get lost.
"Times are a changing" said the poet who won the noble literature prize and refused to show up for it...


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## horseshoe846 (Feb 8, 2017)

I am not as patriotic as my father who was a marine (and proud of it).

The sad thing is that in order to fly to a lot of international destinations you have to fly through some sort of US hub. I hope I never have to visit a US airport again in my life, and it is VERY unlikely we will ever drive in. We have a few friends whom my wife keeps in weekly contact with via phone. I think for now at least we are going to destinations Mexico and South.


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## RickS (Aug 6, 2009)

Orfin, I did not read all the Posts in this long thread so may have missed something, but.....

Your Post is about as far from (my) reality as any I've seen. I drive in/out of Mexico a lot... just returned this week from one stay for example. Yes, there are military stops all over and surely going north... always have been. I have heard a lot of people 'wringing their hands' about what is (maybe) going to happen but.... I passed through the normal stops in my 750 mile trip north and if anything I saw more laxness than ever before. At one stop there was just one lone person flagging everyone through. At the others I and those around me just got a cursory look as we slowly passed through.

One thing that I am sure about.... IF things get more 'involved' in the future these Mexican Forums will be buzzing with that information. So far, all I see and hear is a lot of 'what -ifs'. Wake me when it starts happening but before then I can't get excited [cut].


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

perropedorro said:


> I've no idea where you live or hang out in Chiapas, but my recent border experience was different. Went to Guatemala three weeks ago and re-entering Mexico both documents and possessions are well-checked at Talismán. Then again at a checkpoint only about 2 kilometers in. The driver got a call tipping him off so he stopped halfway there and announced it, in case anyone wanted to get off. About a third of the passengers did. The migra inspection lasted a while with officials targeting a young woman from whom one took her residence card and walked away with it. Then another asked for ID two minutes later, clearly harassment. Another five inspections on the 250 km. bus ride from Tapachula to Arriaga, at three of which all passengers had to collect belongings, get off, and go through inspections. I understand that this is done by Mexico at the behest of the Mérida Initiative and the U.S. foots the bill for it. As for undocumented immigrants, both Central Americans and a considerable number from anywhere else in the world, Mexico also has some interest given that if they're allowed to continue it's likely they'll get stuck in Tijuana, unable to pass into the U.S. There's already a substantial accumulation of Haitians and many are applying to Mexico for refugee status.



Let me clarify, I have never been asked for my papers outside of the border check points.. and I have never been asked for my papers at the checkpoint between Frontera Corozal and Palenque. I was all over that area a couple of days ago and again no one checked my papers.


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## DebInFL (Dec 1, 2016)

eastwind said:


> citali, I wasn't comparing the processes, I was pointing out that they existed in an attempt to destroy DebInFl's false equivalence:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You have taken everything I said and twisted it to your own designs. Who is this "We" you keep speaking of? Are you in the Trump administration? I honestly do not understand why you want to pick my statements in particular apart and misrepresent them.


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