# UK citizen moving to Germany with non-EU partner



## norman_norman

Hello! I'm sure these sorts of questions have been asked before, but as everything situation is different, we thought it would be more helpful to ask for advice about our specific circumstances.

I am a UK citizen and currently work as an English teacher in Hong Kong. My partner is from Hong Kong and we have recently moved into our first rented home together. We intend to marry in the next couple of years and we are considering our options for settling down in the not-too-distant future, but we're not sure which countries we would be able to move to. 

We looked into the UK initially, thinking it would be the most viable option, but found that the requirements, particularly the financial requirement, would make it very difficult for us. Hong Kong remains an option, but we would both prefer a place with less pollution and more affordable (and roomy) housing for our future family. 

We have done some research about moving to different EU countries and found that Germany might be a nice option for us. If I'm not wrong, I believe that it would be fairly easy for me to move there as a UK citizen. However, we're not quite sure what the requirements would be for him to come with me. A number of things we've read about the process make it seem fairly easy, which makes me think I'm not getting it quite right! Can anyone shed any light on Germany's policy regarding UK citizens and their non-EU partners settling in the country permanently? 

For example,

1.	As a UK citizen, are there any requirements that I should be aware of for myself before looking for work or entering the country for a permanent stay?

2.	What is the first step we should take, considering my partner is not from an EU country?

3.	Would my partner enter the country with a visitor visa then apply for residence after 3 months? If not, should he apply for the spouse residency before entering Germany? 

4.	Is a Hong Kong marriage certificate adequate in German law?

5.	What is the financial requirement for us both?

6.	Is there a language requirement for us both? If so, is it necessary for us to take any formal tests?


Even if you haven't got answers for these questions, we'd really appreciate any advice or help you can give us. 

Thank you!

Alice


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## ALKB

norman_norman said:


> Hello! I'm sure these sorts of questions have been asked before, but as everything situation is different, we thought it would be more helpful to ask for advice about our specific circumstances.
> 
> I am a UK citizen and currently work as an English teacher in Hong Kong. My partner is from Hong Kong and we have recently moved into our first rented home together. We intend to marry in the next couple of years and we are considering our options for settling down in the not-too-distant future, but we're not sure which countries we would be able to move to.
> 
> We looked into the UK initially, thinking it would be the most viable option, but found that the requirements, particularly the financial requirement, would make it very difficult for us. Hong Kong remains an option, but we would both prefer a place with less pollution and more affordable (and roomy) housing for our future family.
> 
> We have done some research about moving to different EU countries and found that Germany might be a nice option for us. If I'm not wrong, I believe that it would be fairly easy for me to move there as a UK citizen. However, we're not quite sure what the requirements would be for him to come with me. A number of things we've read about the process make it seem fairly easy, which makes me think I'm not getting it quite right! Can anyone shed any light on Germany's policy regarding UK citizens and their non-EU partners settling in the country permanently?
> 
> For example,
> 
> 1.	As a UK citizen, are there any requirements that I should be aware of for myself before looking for work or entering the country for a permanent stay?
> 
> 2.	What is the first step we should take, considering my partner is not from an EU country?
> 
> 3.	Would my partner enter the country with a visitor visa then apply for residence after 3 months? If not, should he apply for the spouse residency before entering Germany?
> 
> 4.	Is a Hong Kong marriage certificate adequate in German law?
> 
> 5.	What is the financial requirement for us both?
> 
> 6.	Is there a language requirement for us both? If so, is it necessary for us to take any formal tests?
> 
> 
> Even if you haven't got answers for these questions, we'd really appreciate any advice or help you can give us.
> 
> Thank you!
> 
> Alice




Hi Alice 

Welcome to the forum.

As you say that you want to marry within the next few years, nobody knows what the rules might be then.

Current legislation as it stands makes it very easy for an EU citizen to move to another EU country. 

For the first 90 days of your stay you don't need to register your address (but you can), don't need to show that you are employed or have any other source of income (but of course you can take up employment) and you don't need to have health insurance (but I strongly suggest to get some!!)

Regarding your questions:

1. There are no requirements for you as such. You might want to learn some German whether for work or for daily survival, it does come in very handy  My husband used to work at an English language school and they are always looking for qualified native speakers who don't need a work permit, so I think your chances are actually quite good.

2. Get married.

3. Once married, your partner can apply for a short term Schengen visa which is free of charge for family members of EU citizens. The visa is valid for 90 days. DON'T apply for the residence card AFTER the 90 days. Start getting your paperwork together right away. Register your residence (can be a sublet, anything as long as you have some written confirmation about it), get an appointment at the Ausländerbehörde (foreigner's department) and apply for your partner's residence card. Within the first 90 days of your stay you can exercise your EU treaty rights as a jobseeker, so no need to show a job or health insurance at that point. The residence card should arrive 3 - 4 weeks after your appointment and will be valid for 5 years unless you specify upon application that you only want to stay x amount of time (don't). The residence card gives your partner full access to the German job market.

4. Yes. Any official marriage certificate is recognised as long as it complies with the country you got married in. Even if the officiant is somebody dressed as Elvis. You might have to have the certificate translated into German by a certified translator. My Danish marriage certificate came in Danish, French, German and English - very nice of the Danes.

5. No financial requirement. After 90 days of stay you as the EU citizen have to exercise your treaty rights by either being employed or being self-employed. It can be a part time job and the amount you earn is not important but it has to be an official job, not cash in hand.

6. No. The language requirement only applies under domestic immigration law (spouse of a German national) so would not apply to you or your partner. This also means that your partner is not required to attend (or eligible for) an integration course. If you really want to settle long term in Germany, learning the language is quite vital. 


Are you looking at moving on to the UK under the Surinder Singh judgement?


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## norman_norman

*Reply*



ALKB said:


> Hi Alice
> 
> Welcome to the forum.
> 
> As you say that you want to marry within the next few years, nobody knows what the rules might be then.
> 
> Current legislation as it stands makes it very easy for an EU citizen to move to another EU country.
> 
> For the first 90 days of your stay you don't need to register your address (but you can), don't need to show that you are employed or have any other source of income (but of course you can take up employment) and you don't need to have health insurance (but I strongly suggest to get some!!)
> 
> Regarding your questions:
> 
> 1. There are no requirements for you as such. You might want to learn some German whether for work or for daily survival, it does come in very handy  My husband used to work at an English language school and they are always looking for qualified native speakers who don't need a work permit, so I think your chances are actually quite good.
> 
> 2. Get married.
> 
> 3. Once married, your partner can apply for a short term Schengen visa which is free of charge for family members of EU citizens. The visa is valid for 90 days. DON'T apply for the residence card AFTER the 90 days. Start getting your paperwork together right away. Register your residence (can be a sublet, anything as long as you have some written confirmation about it), get an appointment at the Ausländerbehörde (foreigner's department) and apply for your partner's residence card. Within the first 90 days of your stay you can exercise your EU treaty rights as a jobseeker, so no need to show a job or health insurance at that point. The residence card should arrive 3 - 4 weeks after your appointment and will be valid for 5 years unless you specify upon application that you only want to stay x amount of time (don't). The residence card gives your partner full access to the German job market.
> 
> 4. Yes. Any official marriage certificate is recognised as long as it complies with the country you got married in. Even if the officiant is somebody dressed as Elvis. You might have to have the certificate translated into German by a certified translator. My Danish marriage certificate came in Danish, French, German and English - very nice of the Danes.
> 
> 5. No financial requirement. After 90 days of stay you as the EU citizen have to exercise your treaty rights by either being employed or being self-employed. It can be a part time job and the amount you earn is not important but it has to be an official job, not cash in hand.
> 
> 6. No. The language requirement only applies under domestic immigration law (spouse of a German national) so would not apply to you or your partner. This also means that your partner is not required to attend (or eligible for) an integration course. If you really want to settle long term in Germany, learning the language is quite vital.
> 
> 
> Are you looking at moving on to the UK under the Surinder Singh judgement?



Thank you for your fast and detailed reply. You have been very helpful. 

We are currently researching the Surinder Singh judgement and have read that the UK are considering changes. So, we're not sure where that will leave us. I guess that its something we will just have to keep our eye on. From what I understand of it as it is at the moment, we would be free to move to the UK after living in any EU country, even if only for a short time. Is that right?

Regarding the Schengen visa, is it absolutely essential for my partner? We've found that HK passport holders are able to spend up to 90 days in Germany visa-free. Is this sufficient? Or does my partner need to have the schengen visa because it is a standard part of the process in obtaining a residence permit?

Although I would certainly be looking for work prior to moving to Germany, if, by chance, I could not find employment within the 90 days in which I am in Germany, what would happen? Would I just need to provide evidence that I am still looking for work or are there more complex consequences?

Is health insurance a legal requirement for both of us or just something that is recommended?

I'm glad to hear that there is no financial requirement! We would of course be sure to save as much as possible before moving anywhere! I'm also very glad to hear that it might not be too challenging to find work in Germany. However, I'm not sure what job prospects my partner would be likely to have. He is a native Cantonese speaker and has very good Mandarin and English. Do you know if non-EU citizens tend to have great difficulty finding work in Germany? Also, can you recommend any job websites? We've looked through some, but we haven't come across a great deal of jobs so far. Any ideas of key places to look are very welcome!

Thanks again for all your help!


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## ALKB

norman_norman said:


> Thank you for your fast and detailed reply. You have been very helpful.
> 
> We are currently researching the Surinder Singh judgement and have read that the UK are considering changes. So, we're not sure where that will leave us. I guess that its something we will just have to keep our eye on. From what I understand of it as it is at the moment, we would be free to move to the UK after living in any EU country, even if only for a short time. Is that right?
> 
> Regarding the Schengen visa, is it absolutely essential for my partner? We've found that HK passport holders are able to spend up to 90 days in Germany visa-free. Is this sufficient? Or does my partner need to have the schengen visa because it is a standard part of the process in obtaining a residence permit?
> 
> Although I would certainly be looking for work prior to moving to Germany, if, by chance, I could not find employment within the 90 days in which I am in Germany, what would happen? Would I just need to provide evidence that I am still looking for work or are there more complex consequences?
> 
> Is health insurance a legal requirement for both of us or just something that is recommended?
> 
> I'm glad to hear that there is no financial requirement! We would of course be sure to save as much as possible before moving anywhere! I'm also very glad to hear that it might not be too challenging to find work in Germany. However, I'm not sure what job prospects my partner would be likely to have. He is a native Cantonese speaker and has very good Mandarin and English. Do you know if non-EU citizens tend to have great difficulty finding work in Germany? Also, can you recommend any job websites? We've looked through some, but we haven't come across a great deal of jobs so far. Any ideas of key places to look are very welcome!
> 
> Thanks again for all your help!



There are changes in how the UK will deal with Surinder Singh applications coming into effect next week (01/01/2014).

Unfortunately nobody knows what that will mean in practice. The HO is obviously rather annoyed about people hopping over to another EU country and then re-entering the UK with their non-EEA spouse and having the right to benefits and whatnot.

If you want to move to Germany only for moving on to the UK, I would advise you to think very long and hard about it and to monitor several immigration forums for the next six months or so to see what people are experiencing.

On the other hand I think that you probably have a good chance at it. You have been living abroad and wanting to add a few months/a year of German experience to your CV will not look weird.

I think it's more the people who have always lived in the UK, leave the kids behind with the grandparents to work part time in a German supermarket for a month and then apply to go back with their spouse because managing their business from abroad is difficult that will come under a lot of scrutiny.

Up to now, a lot of people were thinking about 3-6 months abroad but this might change to 6 months to a year minimum or much longer.

A user of another forum recently posted the response they received regarding this under the freedom of information act and it basically said that HO has not yet released any detailed guidance on how to implement the rules.

I hadn't looked into visa requirements for people from HK, so yes, if he can enter Germany for 90 visa free then it's fine to just go. Just make sure to apply for the residence card within the 90 days.

If you don't find work within 90 days not much happens to you (but be sure to apply for the residence card prior to the 90 days elapsing because after that you can only apply for it showing that you are working). If you register with the jobcentre, they might ask you after half a year whether you don't want to return home but as long as you don't apply for benefits without having worked in Germany, nobody will bother you. In theory they could ask you to leave but really, they don't have time for this.

After 90 days health insurance is a legal requirement (before that you could still be a tourist, not deciding to settle in Germany after all, etc.). During the first 90 days you don't have to have it but imagine what would happen if you find yourself in need of expensive medical treatment a week after you arrive? Better have travel health insurance for 90 days, I don't think it's very expensive.

What is your husband's skill set? As soon as he has the residence card, he has proof that he is allowed to work. Whether it will be easy for him to find something depends on where you live and what his qualification is.

Speaking German is always a big asset in any job application.

monster.de

stepstone.de

are good job web sites. 

I would also stick to the big cities when deciding where to live. Have a look at the web sites of big local newspapers such as Morgenpost for Berlin:

morgenpost.de

kijiji.de is like the German version of gumtree and while it looks like it has been bought by ebay now, they have all sorts of jobs listed.

Craigslist is not very well known in Germany but a lot of expats seem to use it, so I have seen quite a few job offers for English speakers there.

In case you do want to stay long term, you could actually apply for all sorts of benefits as soon as you have a job (at least 15 hours/week if it's supposed to work for Surinder Singh) - help to pay the rent, for instance or topping up a part time salary to the survival minimum with social security. Your husband could register as a jobseeker and if he doesn't find anything within six weeks, he can ask for help such as a German language course.


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## norman_norman

ALKB said:


> There are changes in how the UK will deal with Surinder Singh applications coming into effect next week (01/01/2014).
> 
> Unfortunately nobody knows what that will mean in practice. The HO is obviously rather annoyed about people hopping over to another EU country and then re-entering the UK with their non-EEA spouse and having the right to benefits and whatnot.
> 
> If you want to move to Germany only for moving on to the UK, I would advise you to think very long and hard about it and to monitor several immigration forums for the next six months or so to see what people are experiencing.
> 
> On the other hand I think that you probably have a good chance at it. You have been living abroad and wanting to add a few months/a year of German experience to your CV will not look weird.
> 
> I think it's more the people who have always lived in the UK, leave the kids behind with the grandparents to work part time in a German supermarket for a month and then apply to go back with their spouse because managing their business from abroad is difficult that will come under a lot of scrutiny.
> 
> Up to now, a lot of people were thinking about 3-6 months abroad but this might change to 6 months to a year minimum or much longer.
> 
> A user of another forum recently posted the response they received regarding this under the freedom of information act and it basically said that HO has not yet released any detailed guidance on how to implement the rules.
> 
> I hadn't looked into visa requirements for people from HK, so yes, if he can enter Germany for 90 visa free then it's fine to just go. Just make sure to apply for the residence card within the 90 days.
> 
> If you don't find work within 90 days not much happens to you (but be sure to apply for the residence card prior to the 90 days elapsing because after that you can only apply for it showing that you are working). If you register with the jobcentre, they might ask you after half a year whether you don't want to return home but as long as you don't apply for benefits without having worked in Germany, nobody will bother you. In theory they could ask you to leave but really, they don't have time for this.
> 
> After 90 days health insurance is a legal requirement (before that you could still be a tourist, not deciding to settle in Germany after all, etc.). During the first 90 days you don't have to have it but imagine what would happen if you find yourself in need of expensive medical treatment a week after you arrive? Better have travel health insurance for 90 days, I don't think it's very expensive.
> 
> What is your husband's skill set? As soon as he has the residence card, he has proof that he is allowed to work. Whether it will be easy for him to find something depends on where you live and what his qualification is.
> 
> Speaking German is always a big asset in any job application.
> 
> monster.de
> 
> stepstone.de
> 
> are good job web sites.
> 
> I would also stick to the big cities when deciding where to live. Have a look at the web sites of big local newspapers such as Morgenpost for Berlin:
> 
> morgenpost.de
> 
> kijiji.de is like the German version of gumtree and while it looks like it has been bought by ebay now, they have all sorts of jobs listed.
> 
> Craigslist is not very well known in Germany but a lot of expats seem to use it, so I have seen quite a few job offers for English speakers there.
> 
> In case you do want to stay long term, you could actually apply for all sorts of benefits as soon as you have a job (at least 15 hours/week if it's supposed to work for Surinder Singh) - help to pay the rent, for instance or topping up a part time salary to the survival minimum with social security. Your husband could register as a jobseeker and if he doesn't find anything within six weeks, he can ask for help such as a German language course.



Thank you so much for your detail and fast reply again. 

Nice to meet you. My name is Norman, Alice's partner.

We still keep on searching the information immigration of Germany and UK. Germany is considerable for us to move to unless UK requirement changed.

We found out one problem while researching. Hope you can give us some suggestions.

The problem is both of us have student loan (not settled), but no other loans like credit card or else. Will the loan affect our immigration to Germany or even every countries? The reason I ask because the immigration requirement seems hasn't memtioned about the applicant's loan(s), or this forum no one ask about it too (maybe they don't have any loan).

We woud like to know the student loan issue will affect our immigration to Germany or not? (e.g. residency permit, etc.)

Any suggestions how we can handle it?

Is it necessary for us to notice German immigration about it in any application form or others?

Thank you for your help again.

Norman


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## ALKB

norman_norman said:


> Thank you so much for your detail and fast reply again.
> 
> Nice to meet you. My name is Norman, Alice's partner.
> 
> We still keep on searching the information immigration of Germany and UK. Germany is considerable for us to move to unless UK requirement changed.
> 
> We found out one problem while researching. Hope you can give us some suggestions.
> 
> The problem is both of us have student loan (not settled), but no other loans like credit card or else. Will the loan affect our immigration to Germany or even every countries? The reason I ask because the immigration requirement seems hasn't memtioned about the applicant's loan(s), or this forum no one ask about it too (maybe they don't have any loan).
> 
> We woud like to know the student loan issue will affect our immigration to Germany or not? (e.g. residency permit, etc.)
> 
> Any suggestions how we can handle it?
> 
> Is it necessary for us to notice German immigration about it in any application form or others?
> 
> Thank you for your help again.
> 
> Norman



Hi Norman 

When moving under the EU act of free movement, they can't ask for any sort of financial information beyond asking you to show that you are economically active after 90 days of arrival.

Or rather, they shouldn't ask - the UK EEA family permit form contains questions regarding income but you can answer them with N/A.

In any case, neither the German nor the UK authorities ask for loans and such even under domestic immigration law - they are more concerned about money coming in than in how you spend it 

What you should consider on the practical side of things, is that moving to another country is expensive (do you have lots of stuff to ship?) you will need to pay rent and deposits and utilities and food and transportation, etc. before you start a job and get your first salary. Finding a job might also take longer than anticipated.

So it would be good to have a realistic budget of the cost of such a move and make sure that you will be able to meet all your obligations throughout.

I have little to no knowledge about student loans (that's for tuition fees, right? Germany doesn't really have tuition fees and banks have only just started giving loans to students for living expenses during studies) so I don't know whether you can pause payments in case you are out of a job or something similar.

Are you looking at moving rather soon? Alice said in the next few years, if I remember right. Be careful to stay up to date on legislation as rules and laws can change. For instance there is an appeal pending regarding the UK minimum income requirement for spouse visa. It will be heard in March but it's not really expected to change anything, soon as HO will probably appeal again and again until they have exhausted all avenues.

And who knows what might happen if the UK really votes on leaving the EU and actually does it!


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## norman_norman

ALKB said:


> Hi Norman
> 
> When moving under the EU act of free movement, they can't ask for any sort of financial information beyond asking you to show that you are economically active after 90 days of arrival.
> 
> Or rather, they shouldn't ask - the UK EEA family permit form contains questions regarding income but you can answer them with N/A.
> 
> In any case, neither the German nor the UK authorities ask for loans and such even under domestic immigration law - they are more concerned about money coming in than in how you spend it
> 
> What you should consider on the practical side of things, is that moving to another country is expensive (do you have lots of stuff to ship?) you will need to pay rent and deposits and utilities and food and transportation, etc. before you start a job and get your first salary. Finding a job might also take longer than anticipated.
> 
> So it would be good to have a realistic budget of the cost of such a move and make sure that you will be able to meet all your obligations throughout.
> 
> I have little to no knowledge about student loans (that's for tuition fees, right? Germany doesn't really have tuition fees and banks have only just started giving loans to students for living expenses during studies) so I don't know whether you can pause payments in case you are out of a job or something similar.
> 
> Are you looking at moving rather soon? Alice said in the next few years, if I remember right. Be careful to stay up to date on legislation as rules and laws can change. For instance there is an appeal pending regarding the UK minimum income requirement for spouse visa. It will be heard in March but it's not really expected to change anything, soon as HO will probably appeal again and again until they have exhausted all avenues.
> 
> And who knows what might happen if the UK really votes on leaving the EU and actually does it!


Really really thank you so much for your help. You help us a lot, and also help someone who wants to move to Germany too. Very useful and detail information.
If you don't mind, we would like to ask more when we found other problem. And also, we will write our updated status in this forum.

All the best!

Norman


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