# Working out the feasibility



## raptorfan (Nov 15, 2016)

My wife and I are considering making a move from Canada to the Costa del Sol area. My income as a retired teacher is around $4000 CAD (2800 EURO) a month. We would want to live in an area near other expats while we work on our Spanish. We're not big partiers but go out for a meal or movie now and again. I understand this is a very general question and it depends on our extra spending, but is my income sufficient to cover the basics (rent, food, utilities, healthcare, a few nights at out)? :canada:


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

raptorfan said:


> My wife and I are considering making a move from Canada to the Costa del Sol area. My income as a retired teacher is around $4000 CAD (2800 EURO) a month. We would want to live in an area near other expats while we work on our Spanish. We're not big partiers but go out for a meal or movie now and again. I understand this is a very general question and it depends on our extra spending, but is my income sufficient to cover the basics (rent, food, utilities, healthcare, a few nights at out)? :canada:


:welcome:

Yes I'd say that income would be enough for that lifestyle.

But it might not be enough to secure a retirement visa. Not all consulate websites give a figure for income requirement, but those that do, ask for in excess of 3000€ a month for a couple. 

http://www.exteriores.gob.es/Consulados/SANFRANCISCO/en/ConsularServices/Documents/visas/RetirementVisa.pdf


Although the Toronto consulate says $3500 CAD for a non-lucrative visa (retirement visa isn't mentioned). Although that's for one person. It doesn't say how much extra for family members, so it's likely to come out more or less the same. http://www.exteriores.gob.es/Consulados/TORONTO/en/Consulado/Documents/non%20lucrative%20residence.pdf

You really need to contact the nearest consulate - which is where your visa would be issued - for a definitive answer.


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## DonViaje (Nov 17, 2016)

I'm living in Spain on this "retirement visa", officially called the "non-lucrative visa". Essentially, if you can show that you have a passive income (or savings amounting to the required annual total), provide your own health insurance (costs me 42 euros per month in Madrid), and a pile of other bureaucratic paperwork proving you have no criminal record, they will let you reside in Spain essentially indefinitely. I'm not even close to retirement- I telecommute to my job in the USA, earning an income from the USA while living in Madrid. In my experience the financial requirements are more of a "strong recommendation," it seems they consider your whole profile in addition to your income when deciding to approve you. If you're close to the It looks like you should be able to qualify for the visa, especially if you have savings in addition to your pension.

The interesting thing is that the income level, as already pointed out by several others, seems to differ depending on which consulate you apply through. The Toronto fact sheet lists 3500 CAD plus 890 CAD per family member, but the consulate in Montreal, and San Francisco (where I applied) say 2130 euros plus 534 euros per family member. Note that the actual middle class cost of living in most areas of Spain is significantly less than this. Even in the center of Madrid my overhead is maybe 1500 per month. 

Which Spanish consulate you would have to work through in Canada (if you're a Rapter fan you're from Toronto?) all depends which province you reside in, but there are consulates in Montreal, Toronto, and Ottawa.

I went through the process myself as an American via the consulate in San Francisco and have been living in Madrid for one year (no plans to leave). This visa is renewable for up to 5 years, after which you can qualify for permeant residency. I'd be happy to answer any more specific questions you have about this visa, the application process, or moving to and living in Spain as a North American.

NOTE: I tried to post links to the Spanish Consulate website in Toronto and a fact sheet about the visa (I think someone else beat me to it anyway) but because i'm a new poster it won't let me.. but you should be able to find it yourself with a quick google search.


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## holt (Jul 15, 2011)

As a fellow Canadian I thought I'd chime here, have you considered the Canary islands? I'm in Tenerife, on a pretty town called Puerto de la Cruz, good presence of British nationals here as well as lots of Spanish, a good balance of both.
Your budget sounds more than enough for living in Spain.
good luck with the move.


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## DonViaje (Nov 17, 2016)

The Canaries are incredibly affordable because of the lack of VAT.. I'm told it's one of the most inexpensive areas of Spain to live?


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## holt (Jul 15, 2011)

I am not that knowledgeable on this but my impression is that the difference in cost of living from the Canaries and mainland are small, if any. I guess the biggest difference is in the lack of need for heating in the winters, also no winter clothing necessary. Gas is cheaper too. Rather than that, many things might be more expensive than on mainland, like cars. Still, it doesn't compare with Northern Europe or North America, from my observations, it's indeed a world of difference as they say.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

DonViaje said:


> The Canaries are incredibly affordable because of the lack of VAT.. I'm told it's one of the most inexpensive areas of Spain to live?


I didn't think you were right, but you are!


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## raptorfan (Nov 15, 2016)

DonViaje said:


> I'm living in Spain on this "retirement visa", officially called the "non-lucrative visa". Essentially, if you can show that you have a passive income (or savings amounting to the required annual total), provide your own health insurance (costs me 42 euros per month in Madrid), and a pile of other bureaucratic paperwork proving you have no criminal record, they will let you reside in Spain essentially indefinitely. I'm not even close to retirement- I telecommute to my job in the USA, earning an income from the USA while living in Madrid. In my experience the financial requirements are more of a "strong recommendation," it seems they consider your whole profile in addition to your income when deciding to approve you. If you're close to the It looks like you should be able to qualify for the visa, especially if you have savings in addition to your pension.
> 
> The interesting thing is that the income level, as already pointed out by several others, seems to differ depending on which consulate you apply through. The Toronto fact sheet lists 3500 CAD plus 890 CAD per family member, but the consulate in Montreal, and San Francisco (where I applied) say 2130 euros plus 534 euros per family member. Note that the actual middle class cost of living in most areas of Spain is significantly less than this. Even in the center of Madrid my overhead is maybe 1500 per month.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the info, and yes we are from the Toronto area. My gross pension per month is $4700 CAD ($3800 CAD after taxes). My medical insurance costs an additional $350 per month, but I'd drop that. I do have approx $800k in investments. I assumed this would be taken into account as I can funnel a couple thousand into my monthly income from interest on those investments. My only concern is if I'd be required to move the my investments from my Canadian bank to one in Spain. 

To be honest, we're really unsure if we could make such a huge change in our lives like moving to another continent. Neither of us speak any Spanish and would have to learn on the fly (maybe you can teach an old dog new tricks). We just despise the Canadian winters and it's getting more expensive to spend winter months at our Florida home (plus I'm not a fan of the current political climate). We're attracted to the south of Spain particularly for the climate (plus the comparisons shown by the NUMBEO site that shows a 30% lower cost of living). Another complication is how to get our dog over there without too much trauma. I'm all ears for any advice or recommendations


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## raptorfan (Nov 15, 2016)

holt said:


> As a fellow Canadian I thought I'd chime here, have you considered the Canary islands? I'm in Tenerife, on a pretty town called Puerto de la Cruz, good presence of British nationals here as well as lots of Spanish, a good balance of both.
> Your budget sounds more than enough for living in Spain.
> good luck with the move.


No we haven't looked at the Canary Islands, but to be honest we just stumbled on Spain after watching a House Hunters International show on Costa del Sol. We were actually initially looking at the Algarve in Portugal, but Spain looked good as well and I figured Spanish might be a little easier than Portuguese to pick up. Maybe you can give me the high points and the low points of living in the Canary Islands. It's always more valuable to get the info straight from an expat. Most of my info has come from International Living and House Hunters and I know they are HEAVILY biased!


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## holt (Jul 15, 2011)

If you would like more detailed information from me we'll have to arrange a chat somehow, which I don't mind. Otherwise, briefly I'd say the main selling point of the Canary Islands is the climate. It doesn't get cold here in the winter. And maybe the main disadvantage is having to fly a little longer to get here. To us Canadians doesn't make much difference since we have 2 flights to here anyway, like if you fly into London, then instead of 2+ hours fly time to Costa del Sol there are 3+ hours to here.
Overall not big difference from the rest of Spain, but that's only my impression.
You know you don't have to move to Spain yet, instead come and visit, you can visit for 3 months at the time no problems, that way you find out if indeed Spain is for you, which place, and don't have to worry about financial requirements and other bureaucratic arrangements.


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## raptorfan (Nov 15, 2016)

Can anyone clue me in on how easy it is to bring a dog with you? Does it require quarantine?


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Pesky Wesky said:


> I didn't think you were right, but you are!


Good map and data but has serious drawbacks. For example, living in a big city such as Granada, Málaga or Sevilla is considerably more expensive than living in an inland country town or village. One often hears comments such as "But there is no Corté Inglés store there or, it is a long way to Ikea..." But how often do you need to go to those places? We live in a village and out cost of living is considerably lower than the big cities or big towns. Our IBI (coundil tax) is 131€ per year and car tax is 59€. We get lots of local fresh fruit and vegetables from local people, (some bought, but most given for free.) In the village (pop. 4700) we have five supermarkets all within walking distance, four bakers, all of which deliver fresh bread to the door. We don't have traffic fumes nor the constant noise of heavy traffic and we have good road connections (over roads that are relatively traffic-free) to Granada, Córdoba, Jaén with fairly close access to major routes to Madrid, the North and France; to Almería, Valencia, Murcia and up the east coast to Barcelona and almost past the village is the N432 direct through to Badajoz and Portugal; and with links to the A4/E5 to Sevilla, and Madrid.

We are part of Andalucía but our cost of living is probably 75-80% of the figure shown for that AC.


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