# Permanent Residency and work



## cypruska (Nov 25, 2010)

Hi there 

Probably this topic was discussed hundred million times, but I will try again.

My partner and I thinking to move from our current location to Canada. I did self-assessment test on the Canadian immigration website and scored 69 points, my partner's qualifications are on shortage skill list so we qualify under skilled worker visa. That sounds great, but...:
- how can he find work prior going to Canada? 
- we have 2 small children (3 y.o and 8 months old) which province is best for bringing up kids?
- weather is a big factor too. I am used to cold (where I'm from we have harsh winters too) but my partner is used to warm weather. I understand, that there won't be 30 degrees heat etc, but which part has the mildest climate?
- what is better to do, try to get visa on my own or hire attorney?
- what about pets? We have 2 small dogs and I worry that I will have to leave them here...
- initial costs... what are we looking at? 

Thanks for any comment.
Ania


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## pmarc (Nov 21, 2010)

Ania,

Do your research, see where your skills would be in most demand.
Research the city, the province, the surroundings.

Look, I am from Brazil. Temperatures here seldom get below +10 Celsius. I am planning to go to Alberta, I see that most work opportunitties I may find are there, be it Calgary or Edmonton. From my research, I see that with exception of those few days where temperatures get in the minus 40s, everything works normally. Houses have good insulation and heating (I guess Poland is like that too, although not as cold).
At first, I (married, no kids) am planning on moving somewhere close to Calgary, then adjust move as necessary.

Also, work on your language skills, that woud also be dependent on where your professional skill are most sought after. If that happens to be Quebec or Ontario, get yourself in a french class (mostly Quebec), but don't forget to brush-up your english. If Quebec is for you, then apply directly to Quebec, they don't have that "skill shortage list".

Also, look for videos of a "Lionel Laroche" on blip.tv.

As for the pets, I assume that if you could travel with them, you could move with them. Just take the necessary vaccines, medications and certificates.


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## telcoman (Feb 11, 2010)

SW BC is the warmest. Dogs are OK, just make sure they have had rabies shots.


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## volit (Nov 22, 2010)

Canada is a BIGGG country. It's the 2nd largest in the WORLD by land mass. Asking where the "best" is for anything is really vague and no way to know. It's going to take a lot of research to find out the best happy medium for YOU.


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## cypruska (Nov 25, 2010)

Thanks guys for your response 

Pmarc, my partner is from SA, so he saw snow for the first time when he went for holidays to Scotland  Canada will be a bit of shock for him, but hey, it's a small price for a better life. 

After my research I think Toronto or Vancouver will be best for us. I remember cold winters in Poland (the coldest was -40 C ) and I'm not fond of having polar bear as a next door neighbour 

I read that test checking your English proficiency is a must. I understand me, non-English speaking person, but what about my partner who is a native speaker? Does he need to take IELTS ?

I need to remind myself my French, I had it at school but because of teacher i really hated it  I think it's time to find my books and ask my French friends for help 

Thanks guys and regards from sunny Cyprus!


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## cypruska (Nov 25, 2010)

I forgot to ask. We are not married but live together for 6 years and we have 2 children together. I understand it's referred as common law or de facto. Will immigration ask us for proof of our relationship? Will plane tickets, photos, christening invitations, joined bank account etc. be enough?


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## pmarc (Nov 21, 2010)

cypruska said:


> I forgot to ask. We are not married but live together for 6 years and we have 2 children together. I understand it's referred as common law or de facto. Will immigration ask us for proof of our relationship? Will plane tickets, photos, christening invitations, joined bank account etc. be enough?


Yes, IIRC, you would need to prove that, with both your names on bank statements, utility bills, property titles, whatever, plus legal proof of the common law status.

As for language, IELTS for you, but you partner do not need any comfirmation.


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## telcoman (Feb 11, 2010)

Your english does not seem bad. Common law relationships are recognized here as equivalent to marriage after 2 years, just have some proof you have been in a continual relationship.


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## JimJams (Jan 11, 2010)

pmarc said:


> Yes, IIRC, you would need to prove that, with both your names on bank statements, utility bills, property titles, whatever, plus legal proof of the common law status.
> 
> As for language, IELTS for you, but you partner do not need any comfirmation.


No, everybody (including me, from England, where the language was apparently invented) will need to take the IELTS exams. This changed in July this year I believe.

I'm glad they are doing the IELTS but think it is pushing it too far to make everyone do it even when their entire schooling was in english... but on the flip side it means a minimum standard from the start.


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## telcoman (Feb 11, 2010)

Boy, that should eliminate most Americans. LOL.


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## pmarc (Nov 21, 2010)

JimJams said:


> No, everybody (including me, from England, where the language was apparently invented) will need to take the IELTS exams. This changed in July this year I believe.
> 
> I'm glad they are doing the IELTS but think it is pushing it too far to make everyone do it even when their entire schooling was in english... but on the flip side it means a minimum standard from the start.


Thanks for the correction.

I am astounded as to how many brazilians think they can get by with just minimal language skills.
I see many people going to Quebéc, with just 3 semesters of french classes.
Yes, they do not now a word in english, because of that silly anti-americanism that was instilled from the 1960's onward.

I was reading some canadian newspiece earlyer, and it seems that only 18% of immigrants speak english (the applicants), their families do not. How come a person moves to another country in which they do not now the language?


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## Shadowhunter (Nov 28, 2010)

We are sort of in the same boat so thank you for asking the question because it has given me some great info 
Thanks guys!


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## MarylandNed (May 11, 2010)

pmarc said:


> How come a person moves to another country in which they do not now the language?


Some people do it because they want to learn the language. Being immersed in a new language is the best way to learn it.


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## pmarc (Nov 21, 2010)

MarylandNed said:


> Some people do it because they want to learn the language. Being immersed in a new language is the best way to learn it.


Not wanting to start a whole off-topic thread, but that would be best achieved in a full immersion course.

Immigrating means that you would really need to survive using your (nonexistant) communication habilities. It is totally irresponsible to move to a place where you cannot communicate. More so if you have a family depending on you.


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## JimJams (Jan 11, 2010)

I think you will find that most people do it to find a better life for themselves. Certainly my father came to UK in 1960's without knowing a word of english, having grown up in a little village in India. He didn't do it to learn the language. He did it to make a better life for himself, and the rest of his family (his brothers, sisters and parents, he wasn't married at the time).

But times have changed since then, but a lot of people's reasons for moving have not, so I think a minimum level of language ability is important. But calling is totally irresponsible is probably going too far.

I have also been researching Australia. They also require a minimum IELTS lvel, but only for only non-English countries. I think that makes more sense than a blanket test.


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## JimJams (Jan 11, 2010)

pmarc said:


> Yes, IIRC, you would need to prove that, with both your names on bank statements, utility bills, property titles, whatever, plus legal proof of the common law status.
> 
> As for language, IELTS for you, but you partner do not need any comfirmation.


pmarc, i just re-read your answer and realised i read it wrong.

Yes, you are right, the primary applicant does need to have the IELTS, I am not sure about secondary or other members of family, I have only been researching for myself. On of the more senior members will no doubt have the answer.


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## pmarc (Nov 21, 2010)

JimJams said:


> I think you will find that most people do it to find a better life for themselves. Certainly my father came to UK in 1960's without knowing a word of english, having grown up in a little village in India. He didn't do it to learn the language. He did it to make a better life for himself, and the rest of his family (his brothers, sisters and parents, he wasn't married at the time).


That is the main overall motive I see in other brazilians.



> But times have changed since then, but a lot of people's reasons for moving have not, so I think a minimum level of language ability is important. But calling is totally irresponsible is probably going too far.


I agree, that was an attempt at "poetic liberty".



> They also require a minimum IELTS lvel, but only for only non-English countries. I think that makes more sense than a blanket test.


Well, I think that testing people from english-speaking countries is a bit too much.
However, it seems that families which do not have language skill suffer a bit more than necessary.

Also, it seems (reading edmontsun.com commetators) that canadian population is getting a bit xenophobic. I am not sure if that this was fueled by recent events, or because the majority of immigrants there are visibly different from the canadian self-image. Or, because as quoted in some news piece, only 18% of albertan immigrants speak english (the rest are family).

This is one of my main worries, I plan to keep an eye on that, since I aplanning to move to Canada in the next 18 to 24 months.


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## MarylandNed (May 11, 2010)

pmarc said:


> Not wanting to start a whole off-topic thread, but that would be best achieved in a full immersion course.
> 
> Immigrating means that you would really need to survive using your (nonexistant) communication habilities. It is totally irresponsible to move to a place where you cannot communicate. More so if you have a family depending on you.


Maybe but I know some people who would disagree. My wife's uncle deliberately moved to France to learn French because he was getting nowhere with it in the UK. Full immersion courses aren't for everyone. Obviously more people probably make the move in search of a better life and then learn the language after the move. I don't think it's irresponsible - I think it's brave and I admire people who speak multiple languages.


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## pmarc (Nov 21, 2010)

MarylandNed said:


> Maybe but I know some people who would disagree. My wife's uncle deliberately moved to France to learn French because he was getting nowhere with it in the UK. Full immersion courses aren't for everyone. Obviously more people probably make the move in search of a better life and then learn the language after the move. I don't think it's irresponsible - I think it's brave and I admire people who speak multiple languages.


I see your point now.
The irresponsible thing I see is to move to another country, unable to communicate when other people depend on you to live. I wouldn't be willing to move to Canada if my wife didn't speak a word in English.

Also, there is this issue with brazilians - I see them as superestimating their own ability to communicate in other languages. Maybe it is because I am "language shy" - I studied english for 6 years before having to use it. It was scary at first, then I got used to it. But I still struggle to let out words in spanish (no study) or french (6 months).


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## JimJams (Jan 11, 2010)

Us brits are just as bad too be honest. I would say the majority of europeans speak at least 2 languages, their own plus english, a lot speak 3 or 4 languages. We brits rock up anywhere we want, shout at the poor cab drivers/bar/hotel/restaurant staff and then have the nerve to curse them because they don't speak english (or at least well enough to understand us).

I was in Thailand backpacking a couple years back, and a young guy (can't remember if he was brit or US) started ranting at the cab driver. Asked him what was up and said the guy couldn't understand something or other he was tellking him and the "he should learn f***ing english". I told him he was their country now and should learn their language. He still didn't get the point, said he worked in "tourism" so should learn it! Ha, what a jackass!

I know what you mean about courses versus just moving somewhere. I studied french for years at school. I couldn't understand them and they couldn't understand me when i went on holiday! When you move somewhere, it's sink or swim time and it's amazing how quickly you learn in that situation!

I do think that people will find it very tough to move somewhere and make friends if they don't speak the language. That making friends part is SOOOOO important to help you settle in and "get over" your previous life. Remember, you are leaving behind all the friends and family you could rely on, and so will have to start a fresh. Not going to be easy if you can'y socialise with your neighbours.


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## November7 (Jul 24, 2008)

JimJams said:


> No, everybody (including me, from England, where the language was apparently invented) will need to take the IELTS exams. This changed in July this year I believe.
> 
> I'm glad they are doing the IELTS but think it is pushing it too far to make everyone do it even when their entire schooling was in english... but on the flip side it means a minimum standard from the start.





IELTS for everyone?! Far out.... I'm originally from Russia but have been studying and working in New Zealand for the past 6.5 years.... Was just wondering if I would have to take IELTS again for Canadian visa... Looks like you've answered my question...


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## cypruska (Nov 25, 2010)

Guys, thanks a lot for your answers and discussions, I really appreciate it 

As for IELTS, my partner registered for 22 of January... I really don't understand why native speakers have to take it, but hey, they obviously had good reasons for such requirement. 
I'm not sure if I have to take IELTS too, but I will. It might make things easier for me in the future.

Do you think it's possible to find job prior arriving to Canada? I found quite a few job ads on Job Bank website and I wonder...
Another thing which worries me a bit. How do you find accommodation? I just can't imagine to immigrate without having place to stay... We want to rent first, fully furnished in British Columbia (I've decided finally!!) and everything I can find on Internet is holidays rentals. I just want to have a basic idea about costs of living too, how much do you spend on normal shopping for essentials, how much do nappies (diapers) cost, how much do you spend on electricity, water and other communal expenses. Do you know if nursery schools are expensive? 
Jeez, you will have enough of me pretty soon  

Ps. My partner just asked me, how do you prove relationship? We have plenty of photos, joined bank account but that's about it... We have 2 children together, but I don't think that counts


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