# Why people leave the UK?



## ChungyUK (Feb 27, 2008)

Hey!!

I'm just interested to find out why so many brits leave the UK? I just wants your views on the country itself. Any comments would be great. 

Thanks


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## lucylox (Feb 11, 2009)

ChungyUK said:


> Hey!!
> 
> I'm just interested to find out why so many brits leave the UK? I just wants your views on the country itself. Any comments would be great.
> 
> Thanks


oooh chungy where do we start!!!

I think number 1 is the weather...lack of sunlight and constant rain makes most of the country depressing, miserable and aggressive (thats my theory!!)

and then i think high taxes and cost of living means you cant afford to do anything except watch the pathetic wannabe celebrities on tv. 

The crime and violence may also be a factor...

Its not that bad really...I do love my homeland but I can just see how other countries with better weather can seem so appealing!


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## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

Somewhere back in the archives there is a long thread on pretty much this very topic. And most of the reasons cited are precisely the same reasons given for why people are looking to leave the US, most European countries, and most "developed" countries in the world:

- hectic lifestyle,
- over-emphasis on money, a lack of jobs,
- "the country is being overrun by foreigners" (which is funny when you think about it - coming from someone looking to emmigrate),
- bad schools, 
- lousy place to raise kids,
- bad food,
- depressing weather,
- everything is too expensive,
- crime, 
- problems with the health care system, 
- crooked politicians... and well, you get the general idea.

Everyone complains about these same things. With luck, you're hoping to find a country that does some of them in a manner that fits better with your own personal lifestyle and tastes. 
Cheers,
Bev


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## Pasanada (Feb 5, 2008)

High cost if living
Political Correctness
The Labour Party
Racism
Crime
Weather
Big Brother

Having spent the past 6 months back in my home country after 6 years away, I'm itching to leave it for good this time. It's not the country I grew up in.

There are problems in other countries, Eutopia does not exist but I have found one place that sure as hell is as close to it as I'll ever get!!!


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## lucylox (Feb 11, 2009)

So Pasanada where is your near Eutopia? the UAE? 

My 16 year old cousin who is from Dubai tells me she is so lucky to live in such an amazing place. How many 16 year olds in this country can say the same?


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## Pasanada (Feb 5, 2008)

lucylox said:


> So Pasanada where is your near Eutopia? the UAE?


Correct.....despite the country's judicial system using Sharia law, I can honestly say I've never been to a safer and friendlier place. As a woman who has travelled (and lived) abroad alone, thats No1 on my list of things that are important to me.


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## ChungyUK (Feb 27, 2008)

Yeah you're so right....you won't find too many 16 year old saying that they love the UK. I would love to go to Dubai....heard so many nice things about Dubai. Teenagers in the UK today are out of control and need a good talking from their own parents. 

The weather is appalling here but thats not exactly countrys fault and generally the prices you have to pay for things are a little expensive compare to other countries.


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## Pasanada (Feb 5, 2008)

Dubai is a great place to live if you have money, it's not cheaper than the UK!! It's glitzy and glamorous but in my opinion, it's a city without a soul. Abu Dhabi was the place I would escape to at weekends to unwind from the crazy city!!! LOL

There is crime in Dubai but not on the same level as you find in the UK. At least in Dubai I never worried about my personal safety or my property being damaged/stolen.


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## ChungyUK (Feb 27, 2008)

Pasanada said:


> Dubai is a great place to live if you have money, it's not cheaper than the UK!! It's glitzy and glamorous but in my opinion, it's a city without a soul. Abu Dhabi was the place I would escape to at weekends to unwind from the crazy city!!! LOL
> 
> There is crime in Dubai but not on the same level as you find in the UK. At least in Dubai I never worried about my personal safety or my property being damaged/stolen.


Yeah your expected to get crime wherever you go around the world but I can imagine Dubai is not as high as the UK in terms of crime, knife attacks etc.


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## Pasanada (Feb 5, 2008)

LOL god, no! I found most people to be well mannered, including young people/youths. The only time I felt anyone trying to intimidate me was whilst driving but I soon learnt to be bolshy!! I refused to be bullied into moving out of the way for those who flashed their lights or honked their horns, if it wasn't safe, I wasn't moving! Arabs are the worst for this annoying trait.

Since being back in the UK AKA YUK, I've experienced youths pulling out in front of my car and then being abusive (sticking their head in my car window and telling me to f*** o**!!) because I was trying to avoid THEM, been given the birdie by some idiot who reversed out onto a main road thus causing me to brake hard and general bad manners on the roads. As for the feral youths, I give them a wide berth, they really do concern me, something I've never experienced in other countries.


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## ChungyUK (Feb 27, 2008)

Pasanada said:


> LOL god, no! I found most people to be well mannered, including young people/youths. The only time I felt anyone trying to intimidate me was whilst driving but I soon learnt to be bolshy!! I refused to be bullied into moving out of the way for those who flashed their lights or honked their horns, if it wasn't safe, I wasn't moving! Arabs are the worst for this annoying trait.
> 
> Since being back in the UK AKA YUK, I've experienced youths pulling out in front of my car and then being abusive (sticking their head in my car window and telling me to f*** o**!!) because I was trying to avoid THEM, been given the birdie by some idiot who reversed out onto a main road thus causing me to brake hard and general bad manners on the roads. As for the feral youths, I give them a wide berth, they really do concern me, something I've never experienced in other countries.


I know tell me about it. So how long have you lived out in the middle east? and how often do you come back to the UK?


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## Spence1987 (Feb 16, 2009)

ChungyUK said:


> Hey!!
> 
> I'm just interested to find out why so many brits leave the UK? I just wants your views on the country itself. Any comments would be great.
> 
> Thanks


Unfortunately Brits are encouraged to have a very negative view of their country. It's a real shame as it makes people overlook its history, its amazing scenery, the good humour of its people and all the other benefits that it has. Silly newspaper headlines will also make people see problems that are not there. Like any place it has it's problems but the levels of crime (just as an example) are greatly overstated.


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## kaz101 (Nov 29, 2007)

Spence1987 said:


> Unfortunately Brits are encouraged to have a very negative view of their country. It's a real shame as it makes people overlook its history, its amazing scenery, the good humour of its people and all the other benefits that it has. Silly newspaper headlines will also make people see problems that are not there. Like any place it has it's problems but the levels of crime (just as an example) are greatly overstated.


The history never bothered me one way or the other. 

The scenery really depends on where you live. Borehamwood didn't have much in the way of scenery and neither do large parts of big cities. 

The good humour of the people? This doesn't happen often in the big cities where people won't even make eye contact with you since they don't know what you will do. Humour often goes when you are squashed while commuting!

Levels of crime? Overstated in some places and possibly understated in others. 

All this depends on where you live in the UK. 

We left because my husband has poor circulation and the weather in the UK is cool and you can't rely on the summers there. 

The red tape when trying to run your own business was ridiculous - we spent more and more time on that and not on the profitable side of our businesses. 

We could simply have the lifestyle that we wanted elsewhere which is why we moved to South Australia.

I may sometimes miss family and friends but I don't miss the UK at all.

I agree that Brits (English in particular) aren't brought up to be proud of their country - we don't even celebrate St George's day yet St Patrick's Day is celebrated everywhere. Not sure how that is going to change. 

I agree with Bev that nowhere is perfect but Australia suits us more than the UK. 

Regards,
Karen


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## IOWgirl (Nov 7, 2008)

I agree a lot with what Kaz has said. The history was never a factor for me. I guess we could be proud of what we achieved, but when so much of it is pompous, (never could spell that word), idealism, based upon a class system, it, for the most part, never resonated with me.
What I notice the most is the 'you made your bed, you lie in it', attitude that the UK has. It's like everyone is just a bystander. I left 24 years ago, so quite possibly the attitude has changed, but from what I remember it was very resigned. I came to Canada and it was all about personal growth, awareness etc. It was more accepting, more open.
Still, the English in me craves the English. I miss the sarky sense of humour. I miss the self depreciation, even though we know we don't mean it fully, but maybe a little. I miss home and I always will. I see pictures and cry sometimes. Yet I know as much as I miss it I could never go back. I am an expat. Forever relishing where I live, yet homesick for where I came from.


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## christosandkim (Oct 26, 2008)

ChungyUK said:


> Hey!!
> 
> I'm just interested to find out why so many brits leave the UK? I just wants your views on the country itself. Any comments would be great.
> 
> The bad weather! The way that you cant just buy a house and live in privacy wiithout everyone having to know who you are etc.Council tax that shoudnt exist as it doesnt in any other parts of Europe.Too many rules and regulations so that it seems to be turning into a communist country.Cost of living is far too high,Taxes too high etc.everything goes up and up and up except peoples wages.Cold and miserable country.Do you need more!


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## Minuvweyna (Aug 6, 2008)

I realize I am really not your target audience for this question, since I am an American who has moved to the UK... but I really think all of the things people keep mentioning here are relative.

I hear a LOT of complaining about British weather, and it certainly doesn't get hot in the summer, but it also doesn't get cold in the winter. I grew up in Michigan, which is nearly Canada, and we had both very hot summers (35 C/90 F was common, for weeks at a time, especially recently,) and winters are harsh, with lots of snow, ice and sub-zero temperatures (I don't mean Celsius here either, we're talking FRIGID.) In comparison, the winter here in Edinburgh is so mild. My fiance is from London, and though he's gotten used to Edinburgh's winters he sure feels the "cold" more than I do. I'm thrilled by the weather, and loved the mild weather in the summer too. If you like heat, the UK may not be ideal, but if you like mild temps all the time, I think it's perfect.

Crime also gets talked about a lot. I've not been afraid at all in Edinburgh, and I go out to clubs and am looking for a cab at 3am. That doesn't mean there isn't crime, but it certainly isn't that bad compared to most US cities. I compared crime statistics before I moved here and Edinburgh had crime levels very similar to the MUCH smaller American city in which I lived, and it's violent crime rate was actually lower! I didn't move to Glasgow, I admit, partly because the violent crime stats there make me nervous. I haven't compared, but I bet Glasgow is safer than Detroit though, which was near where I used to live... course I wouldn't ever move to Detroit either. So it really depends on where you live I think.

Cost of living probably is a factor, and some things here are quite expensive, but not as much more expensive than the US as I'd expected. Petrol is a lot more, but with excellent public transport, which I didn't have in the US, I don't need a car, so the petrol is a moot point for me. I'm sure there are cheaper places to live, my uncle retired and left the US to live in Honduras because it was cheap. It was also unsafe, not terribly stable, and he was knifed at one point. He could live like a king on $3 a day, but he didn't dare drink the water. I guess I'd rather pay a little more... 

Surveillance is one that bothers me, but despite all the CCTV cameras and talk about logging basic info on telephone calls, texts and emails, it's still probably more private than the US, where warrants are no longer needed for wire taps it seems. So again, it's relative and you have to decide what bugs you more.

In the end, I love it here. I've found people to be more friendly than in the US Midwest, which tends to be nosey and gossipy. That doesn't mean I haven't met surely bartenders or seen people that looked just a little... "off." But you get those everywhere. I've had plenty of nice conversations with random people while at bus stops, on long train journeys, and in clubs (admittedly goth/alternative clubs are less threatening and more friendly than the average "meat market" style nightclub, so again I might just be picking nicer places.)

I've never been to Australia, nor have I done more than visit Canada (by the way, I generally find Canadians to be polite and kind folks,) let alone places like Thailand where I am seeing some people posting from. So I cannot compare the UK to these places, but I can say, it certainly has its good points as well as its drawbacks (and one person's drawback may be someone else's great bonus, like the weather for me,) and I'm delighted that I chose it over the US.

Best Wishes,
Elle


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## ChungyUK (Feb 27, 2008)

Hey guys!!!

I like what I'm hearing from you people and it great to hear other peoples opinions on the UK. As a UK native and having been living here for 24 years I do like my country but I wouldn't say I love it. The UK does have its good points such as the weather.....who am i kidding lol...nah but the UK is great for its jobs and you do get paid well. However, people are a little reserved and are little miserable. Whenever I go to America or Canada the folks there are far more happier and enjoy getting to know a newcomer to the country. It is true that America embraces their country very much and celebrate in style, thats not to be said of the UK. 

The crime here in the UK is bad and need to be addresses. I understand that every country does have its fair share of crime but teenagers here in the UK are out of control. I really do blame the parents for their upbringing but why isn't the government doing more to combat this problem.


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## Minuvweyna (Aug 6, 2008)

Alright, I did some research, because I am obsessive like that. I looked up the crime statistics for the US on average, Detroit, Scotland on average, and Glasgow ("murder capital of Europe.") What I found was sobering (but only if you are living in America.)

In 2006, the US national average was 7 murders per 100,000 people. My data for Scotland and Glasgow was for 2004-5, and I had to do my own maths, but the Scottish national average came to 2.74 murders per 100,000 persons, and Glasgow itself only 5.5 per 100,000. Detroit's average was utterly horrifying. Per 100,000 people, there are 47.3 homicides.

There was a total of 137 murders in Scotland in 2004-5, and the Scottish population was about 5 million at the time. The next year was safer, with 2005-6 seeing only 94 homicides in all of Scotland. Detroit, a single, not particularly large, American city, grossed 418 murders in 2006. Detroit has a population of about 900,000 people. With less than 1/5 the population of Scotland they had more than 4 times as many homicides.

Edinburgh, my beloved new home, had 11 murders in 2006-7. While any murder is a bad thing, this comes to 2.4 per 100,000 when Edinburgh's 460,000 strong population is considered.

Obviously crime is not limited to murder, and other crimes are of concern. When combining all sexual and non-sexual violent crime for Glasgow in 2004-5 there were 850 violent crimes for every 100,000 individuals. In Detroit during 2006, there were 2,418.9 for every 100,000. The US national average for violent crime is 553.5 per 100,000. Scotland's is only 370 for every 100,000 people.

The UK may feel like it has a crime problem, just like everyone else, but let's retain a sense of perspective here. I for one walk very confidently on these Scottish streets, because frankly, I used to live 2 hours from the murder capital of the western world. The murder capital of Europe being an hour away really doesn't concern me.

It is all about perspective. And of course, most of the violent crime is committed by young gang members in Detroit, so the "youth problem" certainly isn't limited to the UK.

Best Wishes,
Elle


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## ChungyUK (Feb 27, 2008)

Minuvweyna said:


> Alright, I did some research, because I am obsessive like that. I looked up the crime statistics for the US on average, Detroit, Scotland on average, and Glasgow ("murder capital of Europe.") What I found was sobering (but only if you are living in America.)
> 
> In 2006, the US national average was 7 murders per 100,000 people. My data for Scotland and Glasgow was for 2004-5, and I had to do my own maths, but the Scottish national average came to 2.74 murders per 100,000 persons, and Glasgow itself only 5.5 per 100,000. Detroit's average was utterly horrifying. Per 100,000 people, there are 47.3 homicides.
> 
> ...


Very nice stats there and yeah i've heard a lot about Detroit being the most murderous city in the USA...and to be quite frank I wouldn't step foot there. Thats where Eminem was brought up wasnt it?


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## jlms (May 15, 2008)

*UAE is a scam.*



lucylox said:


> So Pasanada where is your near Eutopia? the UAE?
> 
> My 16 year old cousin who is from Dubai tells me she is so lucky to live in such an amazing place. How many 16 year olds in this country can say the same?


The property prices are falling due to exuberant construction:

People are pouring out of Dubai - Boing Boing

It is a society that does not understand the meaning of political, cultural and social openness:

WSJ Europe pulls Dubai tennis sponsorship | Sports | Reuters

British author Geraldine Bedell banned from Dubai book festival - Telegraph

and that has a disgraceful record of dealing with poor foreign workers:

Dubai’s Kerala Connection

If that is an Utopian place to live, then I hope Utopia will never ever come to us.


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## christosandkim (Oct 26, 2008)

Minuvweyna said:


> I realize I am really not your target audience for this question, since I am an American who has moved to the UK... but I really think all of the things people keep mentioning here are relative.
> 
> I hear a LOT of complaining about British weather, and it certainly doesn't get hot in the summer, but it also doesn't get cold in the winter. I grew up in Michigan, which is nearly Canada, and we had both very hot summers (35 C/90 F was common, for weeks at a time, especially recently,) and winters are harsh, with lots of snow, ice and sub-zero temperatures (I don't mean Celsius here either, we're talking FRIGID.) In comparison, the winter here in Edinburgh is so mild. My fiance is from London, and though he's gotten used to Edinburgh's winters he sure feels the "cold" more than I do. I'm thrilled by the weather, and loved the mild weather in the summer too. If you like heat, the UK may not be ideal, but if you like mild temps all the time, I think it's perfect.
> 
> ...


I actually dont mind having a freezing cold winter with snow etc if it follows a really hot summer.At least the seasons are defined in Canada/America.Here its all over the place and its the cold and dampness that is there most of the time that I hate.You cant plan a trip to the beach or a barbie in advance in case of rain etc and summer is so short here. I have lived in different parts of Europe and I have many Canadian/American friends.All are very happy, friendly,lovely people but I find many of my fellow Brits to be miserable,moody,and rude and I cant wait to leave this place again later this year!!!!!


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## TTdots (Feb 17, 2009)

UK is a very nice coutnry to live.
The weather is not as bad as they say, but I think that people do search for warmer places.


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## christosandkim (Oct 26, 2008)

TTdots said:


> UK is a very nice coutnry to live.
> The weather is not as bad as they say, but I think that people do search for warmer places.


Yes! the UK is an ok country to live in but ive had better!!When you experience better then you are never going to settle for 2nd best.


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## TTdots (Feb 17, 2009)

christosandkim said:


> Yes! the UK is an ok country to live in but ive had better!!When you experience better then you are never going to settle for 2nd best.


to be honest I left 2 times from the UK. I would always go back as I find that the working environment is the most professional. 
So I have to settle for 2nd best quality of life for 1st best working environment.


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## ChungyUK (Feb 27, 2008)

TTdots said:


> to be honest I left 2 times from the UK. I would always go back as I find that the working environment is the most professional.
> So I have to settle for 2nd best quality of life for 1st best working environment.


I agree that working in the UK is good because the salaries that employers offer you is great. In fact it is very well paid thats why you see so many immigrants moving from European countries to come here.....and most europeans come to the south east/London and thats why it is so overcrowded and over populated.


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## christosandkim (Oct 26, 2008)

ChungyUK said:


> I agree that working in the UK is good because the salaries that employers offer you is great. In fact it is very well paid thats why you see so many immigrants moving from European countries to come here.....and most europeans come to the south east/London and thats why it is so overcrowded and over populated.


Yes! The salaries are good.That is why my OH works in the UK for a few months of the year and the rest of the time he holidays in Greece with me ,He would have to work 7 days a week, all year round to get the same wage as in the UK.This way we get the best of both worlds and we never really lose touch with whats going on in the UK either.Several times over the years we have tried to resettle in the UK but we always end up going back.Two years was the longest we ever managed.I always said that if we could combine the 2 into one place it would be ideal , but then everyone would live there ,I guess and that would be overcrowded.


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## ChungyUK (Feb 27, 2008)

christosandkim said:


> Yes! The salaries are good.That is why my OH works in the UK for a few months of the year and the rest of the time he holidays in Greece with me ,He would have to work 7 days a week, all year round to get the same wage as in the UK.This way we get the best of both worlds and we never really lose touch with whats going on in the UK either.Several times over the years we have tried to resettle in the UK but we always end up going back.Two years was the longest we ever managed.I always said that if we could combine the 2 into one place it would be ideal , but then everyone would live there ,I guess and that would be overcrowded.


Thats alright! at least you have 2 different lives one in the UK and one in Greece...if that were me I probably do the same thing as you and work sometimes in the UK or Greece. For me as a british native it be great to do more travelling just like you but I dont have family or contacts except in Hong Kong.

But my ultimate dream is to live and work in either America or Canada...i've been there a few times and everytime i go there i feel completely feel relaxed and soak up the culture better than I do in the UK.


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## christosandkim (Oct 26, 2008)

ChungyUK said:


> Thats alright! at least you have 2 different lives one in the UK and one in Greece...if that were me I probably do the same thing as you and work sometimes in the UK or Greece. For me as a british native it be great to do more travelling just like you but I dont have family or contacts except in Hong Kong.
> 
> But my ultimate dream is to live and work in either America or Canada...i've been there a few times and everytime i go there i feel completely feel relaxed and soak up the culture better than I do in the UK.


We fancy that too! its the immigration process and rules and regulations and red tape and the time it all takes that puts me off. I want to just get up and go to a place and stay if I like it and leave if I dont.Freedom!!! It seems we can only really do that in Europe.They should make America,Canada and Australia more like Europe is so that us Brits could come and go as we please easier,


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## ChungyUK (Feb 27, 2008)

christosandkim said:


> We fancy that too! its the immigration process and rules and regulations and red tape and the time it all takes that puts me off. I want to just get up and go to a place and stay if I like it and leave if I dont.Freedom!!! It seems we can only really do that in Europe.They should make America,Canada and Australia more like Europe is so that us Brits could come and go as we please easier,


Yeah!! I've done loads and i mean loads of research on how to go about living and working in the USA....and believe me it is so tough to secure a Visa. The only clear path in securing a visa is to get a transfer from a company in the UK that has offices in the USA. I thought about studying there but realise its going to cost me too much and also universities are quite competitive. So i have decided to find work here in the UK and work for a few years....gain some experience then ask for a transfer......but i need to find work first lol!!! Obama really needs to lighten up on the immigration front and make it easier for people like myself and you to live and work there.

As for Canada, Australia and New Zealand it is easier to gain entry because they have a points system that you can use to determine if your eligible to work.....and if you have a so called special skill that they may need it makes things that little easier. Yep Europe is easier to find work because of the UK being part of the EU so therefore finding work would be simple. But it isnt for me because of the thought of trying to learn a new language and adapting to a complete new culture etc....but who knows i might work in Europe one day!!!


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## Suenneil (Feb 17, 2009)

*greener grass....*

I know its a very old saying ... but the grass is not always greener elsewhere ... we left the UK to try and give ourselves a better work/life balance 5 years ago ..... yes we now get fabulous weather for a very long Summer .... but the winters are surprisingly long (November through to April) and in those months it is awful in the apartments / houses - no insulation, no carpets and central heating. And being cold for what seems like months on end is definitely no fun!
Also the work life balance .... yuo dont get it any better outside the UK - in fact it is much much harder to achieve. In Spain staff are expected to work very long hours - for much less pay - with very few employment rights / perks etc ...

So Im not complaining about life here in Spain - we enjoy it - but it is at a price - and dont assume that all the lovely sunny, laid back countries are any better for you than the uk ...


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## DanT99 (Aug 27, 2008)

I can well believe what you have written, I hear that sort of thing often. People do think the grass is greener and then find out the hard way. We also lambast our health service etc but then some people do still get excellent results from it. The climate is a moot point, but the changing seasons we have are nice...even if there is sometimes a tad too much rain, but thats what gives us such a green and pleasant landscape!


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## Suenneil (Feb 17, 2009)

Dan - your comment regarding the health service in the UK is a very valid one - its not perfect but again its perhaps difficult for people who have never lived outside the uk to recognise just how good it is! The Spanish system is very good too - we have had first hand experience of it - but when you are ill it can add to the stress when you are struggling with another language! despite how good you think your Spanish is it tends to fail you at important times. 
And again I agree with on the seasons you get in the UK - one of the things I do miss is the autumn .. which you dont get here.
Having said that I feel I should praise all that is good about living here (Im not one of the sterotypical expats who expects fish and chips and warm beer on every corner!!) ..... the long summers, the menu del dia, the chiringuitos (beach bars), great coffee, relaxed atmosphere and a strong family way of living! .... it certainly makes our weekends enjoyable despite the very long working week!


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## DanT99 (Aug 27, 2008)

Suenneil said:


> Dan - your comment regarding the health service in the UK is a very valid one - its not perfect but again its perhaps difficult for people who have never lived outside the uk to recognise just how good it is! The Spanish system is very good too - we have had first hand experience of it - but when you are ill it can add to the stress when you are struggling with another language! despite how good you think your Spanish is it tends to fail you at important times.
> And again I agree with on the seasons you get in the UK - one of the things I do miss is the autumn .. which you dont get here.
> Having said that I feel I should praise all that is good about living here (Im not one of the sterotypical expats who expects fish and chips and warm beer on every corner!!) ..... the long summers, the menu del dia, the chiringuitos (beach bars), great coffee, relaxed atmosphere and a strong family way of living! .... it certainly makes our weekends enjoyable despite the very long working week!




I was happy to read your comments: I love spain and used to work a lot with that country (contracting hotels for a city break company) but now am more involved with Italy. I love tapas...patatas bravas, boquerones (sorry for the spelling!) and of course gambas! I also rather enjoyed their beer as well as way of life and was fortunate to have a friend in Madrid who used to take me to the bullring (is it las ventas?) anyway I can only ask if you can have a cold san miguel on my behalf later. I am drinking guinness (the extra calories get me thru the UK winter...)


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## Suenneil (Feb 17, 2009)

ha ha! consider it done Dan ... its beautiful here today and the weekend forecast is looking good - so I know that we will be visiting a chiringuito at some point over the weekend .... sunday mornings is usually a good one - pick up the sunday papers (the only time we but a UK newspaper), walk down to the beach, read and watch the world go by ... Im looking forward to it already!!!
Enjoy your guiness and I hope the eventual UK summer is kind to you


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## bxb (Feb 22, 2009)

the uk is a beautiful country filled with the most stunning scenery. it has a rich history, the most beautiful old buildings and people have much better manners there, especially on the roads. driving through places like mid wales will take your breath away. its not all hoodies and politics just travel around a bit and you wont be disappointed


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## Pasanada (Feb 5, 2008)

jlms said:


> The property prices are falling due to exuberant construction:
> 
> People are pouring out of Dubai - Boing Boing
> 
> ...


I would like to ask you; have you ever been to the UAE? If not, then instead on relying upon the media for an opinion, actually visit the country and then give an opinion based on experience.

I'm not disputing there are Asian workers who are abused by their employers but even in a country such as the UK, you will find workers are also abused, work long hours and paid peanuts. Don't believe for one minute the UK is a civilised country.

As for the banning of people entering the country, well, sorry to burst your bubble but it happens in the UK too, the most recent case was of a Dutch MP being refused entry.....who says free speech is welcomed in the UK???

You will find property prices are falling globally!!! I lived in Spain for 5 years before the Middle East (still own property there and visit often) and I can tell you that due to over building, greed and corruption, Spain is facing similar problems due to exuberant building practices....it's not just a UAE problem so your posting of more media drivel is unfair...

I don't make the rules of any country but based on my experiences, I enjoyed my time in the UAE and it will always hold a special place in my heart. At least I can say I've never been a victim of crime there, enjoyed wonderful weather, wasn't taxed to the point of death and met the most well mannered people out of anywhere I've travelled to, expats and Emirates alike. I'm ashamed to say that as a native of the UK, I never experienced anything like that.

So, to conclude, Eutopia for me is the UAE, despite some of it's problems, but I never would claim its for everyone, jlms. Your posting of media hype is biased and one sided, check out other countries too and tell me that they don't have problems. I hope you enjoy my home country.


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## IOWgirl (Nov 7, 2008)

You may also be interested to know that I am a brit living in Canada. I had employers, (I was their nanny), who totally tried to take advantage of me when I was applying to become a landed immigrant. Also I have heard of some real horror story's of phillipino nannies being completely bullied, taken advantage of, even one being locked up like a prisoner. No country is perfect.


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## jlms (May 15, 2008)

Pasanada said:


> I would like to ask you; have you ever been to the UAE? If not, then instead on relying upon the media for an opinion, actually visit the country and then give an opinion based on experience.
> 
> I'm not disputing there are Asian workers who are abused by their employers but even in a country such as the UK, you will find workers are also abused, work long hours and paid peanuts. Don't believe for one minute the UK is a civilised country.
> 
> ...




Yes, I have been to the UAE, if I quote the media is just to make my point, not because I have not been there.

What is going on in the UAE is not remotely comparable to any abuses that may be going on in the UK, to even suggest this shows a shallowness that begs belief, as reported by Human Rights Watch “One of the world’s largest construction booms is feeding off of workers in Dubai, but they’re treated as less than human,” said Sarah Leah Whitson, Middle East and North Africa director at Human Rights Watch.

The UK certainly bans people entering the country, every country does, but while the UK does this in order to avoid minorities to be unjustly demonized (like Mulsims) the UAE does so in order to censor ideas. Now, that is fine, if a country wants to live culturally in the dark ages that is their choice, but for goodness sakes, don't come here to tell us that is a plus.

Now, the UAE can do whatever they want, that is their problem, but any Westerners deciding to live there should know that relocating comes at a price that other people are paying in the currency of human misery. Closing our eyes to this is completely immoral.


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## Pasanada (Feb 5, 2008)

jlms said:


> Yes, I have been to the UAE, if I quote the media is just to make my point, not because I have not been there.
> 
> What is going on in the UAE is not remotely comparable to any abuses that may be going on in the UK, to even suggest this shows a shallowness that begs belief, as reported by Human Rights Watch “One of the world’s largest construction booms is feeding off of workers in Dubai, but they’re treated as less than human,” said Sarah Leah Whitson, Middle East and North Africa director at Human Rights Watch. *- Having 38 years experience of the UK (born and bred), I dispute that. I come from an area where ethnic minorities are abused by their employers, we just don't see too much of that reported in the Media. You may not be aware of the Chinese cockle pickers who died in Morcambe due to the negligance of their employer's or hear of the attrocious conditions they had to endure or the below the National Minimum wage they received. It goes on all the time in the UK.*
> 
> ...


Have a good day!


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## jlms (May 15, 2008)

*Have a nice day too*



Pasanada said:


> Have a good day!


I respect your opinions, they just have no base on reality.

Honestly, the UAE just makes it too easy to see how backwards they really are:

UAE plans ban on negative economic reporting - Boing Boing

it would be funny if it wasn't so tragic.


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## Pasanada (Feb 5, 2008)

jlms said:


> I respect your opinions, they just have no base on reality.
> 
> Honestly, the UAE just makes it too easy to see how backwards they really are:
> 
> ...


If my opinions have no base on reality, I must have dreamt I lived there!!! LOL

What country IS perfect? I've been to other countries which are far worse than the UAE....

We could go round and round on this subject and end up severely pissed off.....we'll agree to disagree for the sake of our poor typing fingers.


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## DanT99 (Aug 27, 2008)

Guys, not sure if I am interjecting inappropriately, but this post was never about the UAE was it? seems so long ago...


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## Pasanada (Feb 5, 2008)

DanT99 said:


> Guys, not sure if I am interjecting inappropriately, but this post was never about the UAE was it? seems so long ago...


Sorry, Dan, it wasn't about the UAE but I gave my reason for why I left the UK (but back for a short while) and why I felt the UAE was my chosen place to live. Jlms has given his/her opinion, I gave mine, nothing more than that. 

Sorry for the confusion.


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## DanT99 (Aug 27, 2008)

Pasanada said:


> Sorry, Dan, it wasn't about the UAE but I gave my reason for why I left the UK (but back for a short while) and why I felt the UAE was my chosen place to live. Jlms has given his/her opinion, I gave mine, nothing more than that.
> 
> Sorry for the confusion.


Absolutely no need to apologise, I was enjoying reading the discussion actually. I really had no real knowledge of the UAE before, I do now. I didnt expect to learn much from the forum but I have!


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## Pasanada (Feb 5, 2008)

Thanks, Dan. Travel is my passion in life and I too, love to learn, visit and explore new countries.....only made it to 6 countries last year!!! 

Forums are a great source of information, glad to have helped a little.


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## DanT99 (Aug 27, 2008)

Pasanada said:


> Thanks, Dan. Travel is my passion in life and I too, love to learn, visit and explore new countries.....only made it to 6 countries last year!!!
> 
> Forums are a great source of information, glad to have helped a little.




I agree with you! I work in travel and always have...been to some amazing places, just wish I could do more! wheres your number 1 spot in the world then?
Mine is a toss up between Florence and the Cook Islands.


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## Pasanada (Feb 5, 2008)

I have a choice of 3....Marrakesh, Abu Dhabi and the Canadian Rockies....just love them all and can't decide which would be my absolute favourite....if I could take a piece of each and make my own little place, then I would be a very happy woman!!


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## DanT99 (Aug 27, 2008)

Pasanada said:


> I have a choice of 3....Marrakesh, Abu Dhabi and the Canadian Rockies....just love them all and can't decide which would be my absolute favourite....if I could take a piece of each and make my own little place, then I would be a very happy woman!!



well they say different strokes for different folks...I have only been to Marrakech from your list and it doesnt rank so highly in my book (I think the place is an acquired taste). I had torrential rain when I went there and a lorry drove into our car, so suppose I didnt have the best start!


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## seayork2002 (Feb 1, 2009)

I am by no means a feminist but I couldn't live in a country where women are second class citizens. I am not picking on any particular country or having a go about anyone elses choices


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## Pasanada (Feb 5, 2008)

Seayork, I NEVER felt like a 2nd class citizen, you have to visit to understand what I mean. I was always treated with respect and it's the only place I've been where I felt my personal safety wasn't threatened.

Now, if you are referring to the likes of Saudi Arabia and Afghanistan......hmmmmmm


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## DanT99 (Aug 27, 2008)

Pasanada said:


> Seayork, I NEVER felt like a 2nd class citizen, you have to visit to understand what I mean. I was always treated with respect and it's the only place I've been where I felt my personal safety wasn't threatened.
> 
> Now, if you are referring to the likes of Saudi Arabia and Afghanistan......hmmmmmm



Look, women are not second class citizens, they just arent as important as men (and shouldnt speak unless spoken to first).


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## seayork2002 (Feb 1, 2009)

I wasn't relplying to your particular post it just happened to appear after yours. The west could definetley learn respect more that is defenite, and there is more of a crime problem I do agree




Pasanada said:


> Seayork, I NEVER felt like a 2nd class citizen, you have to visit to understand what I mean. I was always treated with respect and it's the only place I've been where I felt my personal safety wasn't threatened.
> 
> Now, if you are referring to the likes of Saudi Arabia and Afghanistan......hmmmmmm


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## Pasanada (Feb 5, 2008)

No worries, seayork, was just responding to your post. 

Dan, I was beginning to like you...grrrrrrrrrrrrrrr lol

Ok, back to the original thread before we get told off!!


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## DanT99 (Aug 27, 2008)

Pasanada said:


> No worries, seayork, was just responding to your post.
> 
> Dan, I was beginning to like you...grrrrrrrrrrrrrrr lol
> 
> Ok, back to the original thread before we get told off!!



Sorry, I couldnt resist...they do say sarcasm is the lowest form of wit and it is Monday morning...so I should be forgiven! 
Ok back to the original post whatever that was!


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## Pasanada (Feb 5, 2008)

Oh...you were being witty??? Sorry, I forgot to laugh....silly me.... lol


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## willh (Nov 11, 2008)

always on these forums people slate the youth of today and the uk and all that rubbish, if everyone on these sites is so anti the uk why keep on posting on such sites...why still speak english, why care? if the uk is so far down the pan surely there is no point in even whingeing about "youths pulling out in front of me","having to break hard", "feral youths"...etc etc...
maybe if you were paying more due care and attention to the road you wouldn't have to apply so much pressure to the breaks.... the youth of today aren't entirely to blame for the state the country is in, it's the elder generation who played a huge part in the shaping of the country that we should look to to blame...


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## DanT99 (Aug 27, 2008)

good point well made. You will find (my opinion) that a lot of people that 'knock' Britain only do so because secretly they know it is superior in so many ways to so many other countries. There are a lot of people in the world who would gladly exchange places with a Brit in order to escape poverty, persecution and just to have a better life. For every Brit that leaves these shores, there are thousands of other people in the world who would come back the other way...


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## Pasanada (Feb 5, 2008)

willh said:


> always on these forums people slate the youth of today and the uk and all that rubbish, if everyone on these sites is so anti the uk why keep on posting on such sites...why still speak english, why care? if the uk is so far down the pan surely there is no point in even whingeing about "youths pulling out in front of me","having to break hard", "feral youths"...etc etc...
> maybe if you were paying more due care and attention to the road you wouldn't have to apply so much pressure to the breaks.... the youth of today aren't entirely to blame for the state the country is in, it's the elder generation who played a huge part in the shaping of the country that we should look to to blame...


An interesting post....if I'm allowed, I will answer...

I'm not slating ALL the youth of today, indeed, I'm a Mother and Step Mother to 5 children whose ages range from 13 to almost 21 years, I feel in a position to comment about the youth of the UK.

English isn't only spoken in the UK, there are many countries worldwide where English is spoken so if ok with you, I'll continue speaking my mother tongue although you will find the English spoken in the UK is actually a Germanic language and did not originate in England/UK. I also happen to speak Spanish, shall we ban that too because Spain has it's social problems which I find hard to understand or dislike?

You quoted my words when describing incidents I've experienced in the UK; may I ask you, Sir/Madam, were you actually present during these incidents and are you in receipt of my driving history? I was in full control of my vehicle, if someone pulls out in front of you, thats what an emergency stop is all about - are you suggesting I shouldn't brake???

As for me blaming the youth of today for all the troubles in the UK, you have obviously misunderstood my posts. I've not blamed any particular age group. But please, don't deny we have feral youths who make it their business to intimidate, commit crime, have a total disregard for others and their possessions and a general apathy towards society. Have you never heard of joy riders? Under-age pregnancy? ASBO's???

A question was asked and the OP was seeking the opinions of members of this Forum - whats your problem with that? Silly me for thinking we had the right to free speech, I thought we lived in a democratic society, obviously, it's autocratic...missed that one!


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## DanT99 (Aug 27, 2008)

Pasanada said:


> An interesting post....if I'm allowed, I will answer...
> 
> I'm not slating ALL the youth of today, indeed, I'm a Mother and Step Mother to 5 children whose ages range from 13 to almost 21 years, I feel in a position to comment about the youth of the UK.
> 
> ...




Sarky Moo,
I like your style...not sure any little asbos would want to cross you in a hurry! On the same subject did you hear about some little lass who is pregnant now, I think she was only about 12 or something, her boyfriend was about same age. They asked him what would he do financially, he said 'whats financially?' Anyway since the news came to press, another 2 or 3 lads have come forward to say they were also sleeping with her and may be the father. I think rather than compare our great nation to others, we could just accept we 'could do better'.


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## Pasanada (Feb 5, 2008)

Yes, I've been following the story of Alfie and Chantelle - I compare my experiences of UK youth to youth abroad - it's not a generalisation, as I've said, I speak from experience, which was the point of the OP.

But you have to admit, it's rather sad that the UK has the highest number of underage pregnancies in Europe....and I firmly blame our Govt for undermining parents, not the youth of today.....someone may have got a better answer from me if they showed some respect and actually asked me more questions instead of throwing teddies about.....


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## willh (Nov 11, 2008)

Pasanada said:


> An interesting post....if I'm allowed, I will answer...
> 
> I'm not slating ALL the youth of today, indeed, I'm a Mother and Step Mother to 5 children whose ages range from 13 to almost 21 years, I feel in a position to comment about the youth of the UK.
> 
> ...



well as a feral youth myself that has gotten into his fair sure of bother over the years I must say that most of it happened in Spain(i grew up there, so you're not the only one that happens to have the ability to speak 2 languages!) all the problems i got into were with kids in school that proved to be taught to be xenophobic from the moment they stopped suckling upon their mothers breast, and have always wondered how expats that live there can possibly be as naive as they are to the crime,filth and degradation they live in, when all they do is whine about "back home"...the answer is simple, they watch sky, read the daily mail/sun/mirror whatever their fancy and decide to completely ignore the utter shambles of the make believe land they inhabit...i dont deny the existence of bad natured youths in this country, id be blind to see it, but i feel safer walking around london at night than i would in fuengirola/benalmadena or malaga...

as far as england being germanic, fair point, but you misunderstood mine, most of the expats i have ever come across slate the uk and yet support it and fly the patriotic flag for all to see...i was just stating a fact that most expats(maybe i will be hounded for this...) especially the mature ones, are so hypocritical its a joke...

as for the driving...i find it a joy and a pleasure to drive here whereas back in spain i'd fear for my life everytime i either got behind the wheel or even worse when i'd jump on my motorbike, although it is true that anywhere you go you get bad drivers i think that spain is of the mindset that it is involved in a demolition derby 24/7!!!

im sorry if i misunderstood your posts or if you feel im wrong, but as you pointed out, we do live in a democracy and was just excercising my right to free speech as you too pointed out....

Happy Driving


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## Pasanada (Feb 5, 2008)

willh said:


> well as a feral youth myself that has gotten into his fair sure of bother over the years I must say that most of it happened in Spain(i grew up there, so you're not the only one that happens to have the ability to speak 2 languages!) all the problems i got into were with kids in school that proved to be taught to be xenophobic from the moment they stopped suckling upon their mothers breast, and have always wondered how expats that live there can possibly be as naive as they are to the crime,filth and degradation they live in, when all they do is whine about "back home"...the answer is simple, they watch sky, read the daily mail/sun/mirror whatever their fancy and decide to completely ignore the utter shambles of the make believe land they inhabit...i dont deny the existence of bad natured youths in this country, id be blind to see it, but i feel safer walking around london at night than i would in fuengirola/benalmadena or malaga... *- Totally concur that Spain has serious problems too, there would be some parts I wouldn't feel safe walking through BUT overall, I've felt far safer in Spain than the UK....maybe this is due to our sex difference??? I avoided the Expat scene, I do detest it with a passion. I prefered the company of Spaniards who I always found to be warm, welcoming and fun to be with.*
> 
> as far as england being germanic, fair point, but you misunderstood mine, most of the expats i have ever come across slate the uk and yet support it and fly the patriotic flag for all to see...i was just stating a fact that most expats(maybe i will be hounded for this...) especially the mature ones, are so hypocritical its a joke... *- No misunderstanding, you told me to stop speaking English because I happen to point out some facts I find abhorant about the UK. I did grow up there, I do recall that we were taught respect and manners, unfortunately, due to Govt interferance, parents are undermined and we now see a "chav" culture...when you've grown up here, believe me, you notice the changes. Expats are entitled to be patriotic but their opinions must be balanced, I've not given my positive opinions about the UK yet but you assumed I hated the country with a passion which is far from the truth.*
> 
> ...


I'm always happy when driving, it's my second passion.


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## willh (Nov 11, 2008)

Pasanada said:


> I'm always happy when driving, it's my second passion.


at the end of it...agree with you on most points and the main one being about female drivers...my partner has been driving for years, again no miss daisy, but whenever anyone seems to f##k up in front of her(generally some chav in souped up citreon saxo!!) she is the one everyone looks at...

always good to hear valid points and arguments! all the best!!!


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## patkelly08 (Jan 15, 2009)

I am looking to leave the UK for good very soon, and i have to agree with most of the reasons given by many posters above.

Personally, my number 1 reason is that in the UK it is now almost impossible to build a life, even before the "credit crunch" it has become so bogged down with stupid piontless laws and "political correctness/health and safety". also the moral standards of our young seem to be non existant anymore, (but maybe thats a more or less global thing?)

As for the UK being "overun by foriegners", well i supose thats true, but frankly, i dont mind who comes to live here, what i do object to is the blatant erasing of our culture and even some of our laws to make our country more suitable for certain other cultures, when i move abroad, i am more than happy to adapt to another culture and live by the laws of my host country.


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## DanT99 (Aug 27, 2008)

PatKelly,
They are all good reasons for wanting a change and maybe you will be happier somewhere else, but the things you mention also happen in other countries too. By other countries I mean western democracies really. Yes we do bend over too much for anyone that shouts loud enough rather then listen to the wishes of the majority.


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## DanT99 (Aug 27, 2008)

christosandkim said:


> I agree with everything you have said! After many years of living in Greece, we decided to give our own country a go, as the children wanted a british education as they thought that maybe the greek education they had was basic.In turns out it wasnt so basic after all as they have shot straight to the top levels and they also find foreign languages a diddle.they also cannot believe how disruptive and badly behaved most of their fellow classmates are and now that they have had a taste of UK life they cant wait to get back later this year.we can honestly say we gave England a go for the children and to be sure that it was not just our own desires of wanting to live in sunnier,friendlier and less stressful climes!!!As a family we have to fit in with the Greek culture and way of life and that makes it all the better.We know now that the grass is definately greener!!!!!



I am glad you had that experience (Greece is also a great place!) but my only comment, much as people are similar the world over, so there will always be bad schools in Greece and good ones in England. You may find at another place of education (maybe thats not possible) that the teaching is better... also the same in Greece...a bad level of teaching is also possible there I am sure.
Anyway the best advice to you, stick with what you know...and like. Sounds like Greece is the place!


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## vlee (Oct 24, 2008)

Thank you everyone for your discussion, it was quite interesting to read and informative. I think everyone is right that "the perfect place" does not exactly exist...but if you can come close to what "perfect" means to you ....then that's perfect


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## ChungyUK (Feb 27, 2008)

I am glad that I created this forum and the response has been overwhelming...lol!! Yeah its great to hear peoples views and opinions on the UK and what it represents. Keep it coming lol!


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## DanT99 (Aug 27, 2008)

ChungyUK said:


> I am glad that I created this forum and the response has been overwhelming...lol!! Yeah its great to hear peoples views and opinions on the UK and what it represents. Keep it coming lol!




Well as they say, home is where the heart is! I guess people dont generally stay in one place too long if they dont like it, so usually where anyone is, they like it! Thank goodness its not all the same place or it might get crowded...


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## barrov (Jun 8, 2008)

Well, I left because I met a fantastic Italian girl and moved to Italy to be with her!

I adore the UK, and I do miss it... but Italy (and my girlfriend) is/are so lovely that I am happy with my decision to leave.

They don't have proper pubs here though, or Marmite!


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## christosandkim (Oct 26, 2008)

DanT99 said:


> Well as they say, home is where the heart is! I guess people dont generally stay in one place too long if they dont like it, so usually where anyone is, they like it! Thank goodness its not all the same place or it might get crowded...


So right! Part of having a great life is being able to travel to new and exciting places ,discovering and having so much fun on the way.Home really is where the heart is (and the sunshine too! of course)!!


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## barrov (Jun 8, 2008)

christosandkim said:


> So right!...


Aaaaahhh, I thought you were agreeing about the Marmite there!


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## christosandkim (Oct 26, 2008)

barrov said:


> Aaaaahhh, I thought you were agreeing about the Marmite there!


Well!You either love it or haye it eh! I love it too!


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## patkelly08 (Jan 15, 2009)

HEHE, yet another good reason to leave UK, I dont recall seing marmite in thailand, but they do have guiness, LOL


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## DanT99 (Aug 27, 2008)

barrov said:


> Well, I left because I met a fantastic Italian girl and moved to Italy to be with her!
> 
> I adore the UK, and I do miss it... but Italy (and my girlfriend) is/are so lovely that I am happy with my decision to leave.
> 
> They don't have proper pubs here though, or Marmite!



Damn...that is the best reason yet! Med girls are quite simply the best in Europe (a close run between Italian and Spanish...) but Italy wins it I think, anyway I take my hat off to you!
The first really good reason to leave blighty...


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## ChungyUK (Feb 27, 2008)

I can tell you one good thing about living in the UK....if your a youth or a Chav its perfect....terroristing everyone lol!!!! and also the excellent weather we have here.


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## gemo (Mar 7, 2009)

Pasanada said:


> High cost if living
> Political Correctness
> The Labour Party
> Racism
> ...


YOu are close to Eutopia in Afghanistan? I am impressed!!


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## iburrows (Mar 11, 2009)

Anyone know any countries that charge really low or no income tax?


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## Suenneil (Feb 17, 2009)

iburrows said:


> Anyone know any countries that charge really low or no income tax?


Dubai .... not taxes at all at the moment, but the cost of living is high so you probably pay more hidden taxes.


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