# NLV renewal - modify to another visa



## Joe4271 (3 mo ago)

Hi,

I'm looking at moving out to Spain (between Almeria and Murcia) with my family. Some brief background, we go out to Spain alot as our family (non resident) has property out there and we visit regularly, we probably more treat it as a second home. We try mostly to keep on the Spanish side with language and places we go etc. Everytime we come home we want to go back!

I've done alot of research and I've been planning to use the NLV visa using savings for a year without any work. After a year I would then look to renew the visa by changing over to a work visa to aim for full residency. I would be job hunting 3-4 months before the renewal. This as I understand gets round most of the difficulty of obtaining a work visa outside of Spain as we would already have the authorisation to live there. I work in IT so hopefully something that is sought after.

Has anyone done this modification in renewal and could they share their experience?


----------



## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

I don't think it is quite as easy as that. You would need to find a job offer ( presumably in English in IT) somewhere in Spain ( probably not going to be in tourist areas) which can't be done by an EU member. In other words it needs to be pretty rare skill that you have . Then you would all need to return to UK to activate the work visa and wait for sponsorship. All of which begs the question why don't you start looking for job whilst in uk and then if lucky you can simply get a work visa? I have a feeling that people who manage to do this are probably situated in the larger cities in Spain and are already working for major international English speaking companies.


----------



## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

kaipa said:


> I don't think it is quite as easy as that. You would need to find a job offer ( presumably in English in IT) somewhere in Spain ( probably not going to be in tourist areas) which can't be done by an EU member. In other words it needs to be pretty rare skill that you have . Then you would all need to return to UK to activate the work visa and wait for sponsorship. All of which begs the question why don't you start looking for job whilst in uk and then if lucky you can simply get a work visa? I have a feeling that people who manage to do this are probably situated in the larger cities in Spain and are already working for major international English speaking companies.


I agree with most of that - except the part about having to return to the UK to modify the visa. 

Yes, a job offer would be required, & the employer would indeed have to prove that no EU citizen were available for the position. 

However, since applications are made in the country of legal residence, & the OP would already be legally resident in Spain, the application would be made from within Spain.


----------



## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

Maybe a pedantic note, but I see on many posts that the employer has to "prove that no EU citizen is available to do the job".

The law actually doesn't put it quite like that. In fact there are two ways that the employer can justify employing a non-EU worker and sponsoring the visa:

1) If the position is listed on the register of "difficult to cover occupations" (catálogo de ocupaciones de difícil cobertura), or,
2) If the employer can acredit that he has not been able to fill the position through the public employment service, i.e. Job Centers.

It is however required that the employee can demonstrate that he / she is technically qualified to do the job for which they are being recruited. i.e. a self taught person cannot obtain a visa this way. And if the profession is a regulated profession in Spain then the qualifications would need to be formally recognised by the regulating authority.


----------



## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

Here is the link to the "catálogo de ocupaciones de difícil cobertura":



https://www.sepe.es/HomeSepe/empresas/informacion-para-empresas/profesiones-de-dificil-cobertura/profesiones-mas-demandadas.html


----------



## Joe4271 (3 mo ago)

Thanks for everyone's input 



Overandout said:


> Maybe a pedantic note, but I see on many posts that the employer has to "prove that no EU citizen is available to do the job".
> 
> The law actually doesn't put it quite like that. In fact there are two ways that the employer can justify employing a non-EU worker and sponsoring the visa:
> 
> ...


Noting this register, is this the same as the shortage occupation list? I have read somewhere this list didn't apply if you were already a resident in Spain.


----------



## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Joe4271 said:


> Thanks for everyone's input
> 
> 
> 
> Noting this register, is this the same as the shortage occupation list? I have read somewhere this list didn't apply if you were already a resident in Spain.


That's exactly what it is.

A work visa is more likely to be issued if the job is on that list.

Anyone who doesn't need a visa can take any employment offered.

Almost everything on that list for all comunidades seems to be boat related, except for professional sports people & trainers.


----------



## Barriej (Jul 23, 2012)

I have an ex work colleague with the same issues, he is now here on an NLV from Canada (which like all NLV state no work). 
He is a highly trained installation and service engineer and has tried to get a work visa here and was refused, even though the company (which he worked for in Canada) could demonstrate they had advertised nationaly but had not been able to get someone to fill the post. 
Like most things here in Spain (and in the various consulates) it doesn't matter what the rules say, it's all down to the official on the day, what his (or her) partner put in their sandwiches, did the football team win.... Etc... 

He has no decided to go autonomo and work contract for them.....


----------



## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Barriej said:


> I have an ex work colleague with the same issues, he is now here on an NLV from Canada (which like all NLV state no work).
> He is a highly trained installation and service engineer and has tried to get a work visa here and was refused, even though the company (which he worked for in Canada) could demonstrate they had advertised nationaly but had not been able to get someone to fill the post.
> Like most things here in Spain (and in the various consulates) it doesn't matter what the rules say, it's all down to the official on the day, what his (or her) partner put in their sandwiches, did the football team win.... Etc...
> 
> He has no decided to go autonomo and work contract for them.....


Let us know how he gets on.

Getting a self-employment visa isn't a walk in the park, either.

One thing that has to be shown is how the business will benefit the local area.


----------



## Barriej (Jul 23, 2012)

xabiaxica said:


> Let us know how he gets on.
> 
> Getting a self-employment visa isn't a walk in the park, either.
> 
> One thing that has to be shown is how the business will benefit the local area.


The Spanish arm of the company are, oh how can I say this diplomaticaly?

Oh well they are useless, they don't service the smaller machines, they hate dealing with a certain high sugar drink and they don't do refurb work.
The Italian parent company has been complaining about them for years. 
I used to travel to Barcelona to Cacaolat on a regular basis because they didn't want to service the machines..
He is hoping to open a small workshop and refurb machines as, in the UK, Canada, France and Italy, hundreds of machines are available at low cost for this. 
And a refurb is around 60% cheaper than a new machine. 
One of the Uk contractors runs a good sideline doing this at home in his garage..

I will be talking with him soon as I may just work with him and cover this area (he is in Bilbao and Im on the other side of the country).
Obviously I came here before Brexit so working is no issue for me..

The main point for this is for the OP, that even if they can find a job they may still not get the working visa, even if the company is willing to sponsor them. 
The OP states 'IT', which unless its connected to rocket science or quantum telephones  I doubt thats a job that is on the 'wanted list'
Could be wrong but thats my 2c


----------



## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

All I know is that there are IT jobs out there but the vast majority require you to speak but Spanish and English. I work for a large constructor in Alicante they have a big IT department with different nationalities working there but all of the speak Spanish and then English or whatever other language they need. So that could be the main barrier. Can't Imagine there are any companies in Spain who conduct everything in English even big international ones.


----------



## Joe4271 (3 mo ago)

Thanks all, I would be going into this to integrate into Spain. I already speak some Spanish to get me by and I'm continuing to improve this, we want to put our daughter into a Spanish nursery and again jobs I would be looking at Spanish speaking with English as an additional benefit. 

With reference to this leaflet:



https://extranjeros.inclusion.gob.es/ficheros/InformacionInteres/folletos_informativos/archivos/triptico_trabajadores_extranjeros_eng.pdf



This does suggest that the national labour market situation (I assume this is the shortage list) does not apply to foreigners who are already resident to Spain in some form - i.e if you have held a residence permit for one year. I admit this isn't exactly clear so I could have read this wrong. I have also read the same in a couple of other places hence the query here. 

As above there is still the hurdle that a company would sponsor but the officials can reject it.


----------



## Barriej (Jul 23, 2012)

Joe4271 said:


> Thanks all, I would be going into this to integrate into Spain. I already speak some Spanish to get me by and I'm continuing to improve this, we want to put our daughter into a Spanish nursery and again jobs I would be looking at Spanish speaking with English as an additional benefit.
> 
> With reference to this leaflet:
> 
> ...



Nope see point 2 below...

From what my friend has said, the company still has to prove that the job cannot be done by an EU citizen or permanent resident. 
Even if you are already here on a visa (NLV, Golden) as he is, having to setup as an Autonomo and possibly open a business to change his visa is his only route. 
Me and all those who arrived here in the last couple of years (and those that continue to do so on the NLV etc) are considered temporary resident until you have been here 5 years.

But again different consulates and their officials will and do interpret the rules as they see fit.
We have heard tales that Alicante is harder on all applicants than other places, I know of one couple who moved from near here (Alfaz) to Malaga because the conditions of their visa change were easier to over come.

The document you linked to states various things.

*With some exceptions the national labour market situation must allow the hiring of foreign non-EU workers, either because the occupation is included in the National Occupation Shortage List (see https://www.redtrabaja. es) or by presenting a certificate issue by the Regional Public Employment Service.*

So there is a list of trades etc,

*2. Foreigners living in Spain who hold a residence permit in Spain
Foreigners may obtain a residence and work permit if they meet the requirements stated at the beginning of this leaflet, except the one related to the national labour market situation. In addition, except in the case of holders of a residence permit for family reunification, a year of ordinary residence in Spain is required.*

This seems to state that you need a full years residence before you can apply for a visa to work. And mentions the list again.
I think you need to check this list because I have a feeling thats going to be the one thing that will be of importance...

Having been through the residence and other processes, the system here is nothing like that in the UK... Here we have multiple shades of grey (even black and white are grey).....


----------



## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

That is how I read it too (I found the original Spanish version also).

Basically, if the foreigner is in Spain with a residentce only visa, thay have to complete one year under that residency only visa before "upgrading" to a working visa. 
Employing someone who is not yet resident obviously does not have this 12 month rule.

Other than that, the requirements (labour market, qualifications, solvency of the employer etc.) are the same


----------



## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

Surely it would be better to try and get a job first than move on a NLV hoping that you find one whilst in spain? I doubt you would find a well paid English speaking IT job in the south of spain so you would probably have to unsticks and move again. Spain ( as most of us know) is not a good place for work and even when you find it the pay is very low compared with uk so a bit of care is needed especially if you are a young family.
Also although it may sound like a long way in the future if you did remain in Spain you might be limiting your child's educational opportunities for Higher education. Prior to Brexit uk nationals could return to UK for university etc by 2028 all uk nats in EEA will become same as EU nats for university fees which means international rates and no loans! That could be very costly given a current overseas student can pay nearly 20,000 in tuition fees a year. Of course your child could go to a Spanish University but that would mean going through the full Spanish system which many British kids don't manage especially if they are living in areas where there are high levels of other foreign nationals. Something to consider as this is quite a new development.


----------



## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

I would always recommend to anyone wanting to work in Spain to first get a job in their home country in a company with a presence in Spain. Do a few years there and prove your worth, then try to get them to move you to their Spanish entity. This is by far the best way to get a job in Spain. Even if they cut your salary, you'll still be earning far more than if you start from 0 in Spain.


----------

