# EU/US couple want to retire to France



## draga

Hello, my husband and I are wanting to retire to France. We are both US citizens - he is a naturalized citizen and I am US native born. We researched moving to France as US citizens with a long-stay visa and know that once we arrive in France we would need to have a medical exam and meet with OFII to get our carte de sejour.

But since my husband was born in Europe, he probably would not get a long-term visa and we would need to move with him exercising his freedom of movement right, and me applying for a residency card as his spouse. Based on our research of this route, an EU national does not need to apply for a carte de sejour, but he can ask for one. After 5 years of residency, he has the right for permanent residency. As his spouse, I would need to apply for a carte de sejour within 3 months of arrival. This would be valid for 5 years and can be renewed. After 5 years of residency, I could apply for a permanent residence card.

Is our understanding correct? If we move by him exercising his freedom of movement rights, do we still meet with OFII? Is there anything else that we need to do?

Thank you in advance for any information you may have about this.


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## Bevdeforges

Your understanding of things is pretty much correct (save any last minute changes in procedure along the way and the vagaries of the departement and prefecture of whatever departement you settle in).

You won't need any contact with the OFII on arrival and no medical exam. You will still need private medical coverage to tide you over until you have your 3 months of bona fide residence established and can apply for national cover. There is a reason that the visa requirement is for a full year's cover - namely that the settling in process and processing your enrollment can take longer than expected. So ideally you may want to try and find a health care policy you can cancel at short notice (i.e. a month or two) once your national cover kicks in. (You'll also want to find a mutuelle cover - the "top up" insurance that you can tailor to your individual needs and situation.)

The one potential catch is that your husband (i.e. the EU member of the family) should be receiving some form of "state pension" (US SS or drawing from your IRA, 401K or similar plan works just fine) so that when you go to register as the "close family member of an EU national exercising their freedom of movement rights" he has proper claim on the status of "inactif - retraité." There will be a certain level of "confusion" over the fact that despite his EU nationality, he has no health care cover from his "home" country in the EU. You're far from the first to have this "issue" and it will take a certain amount of "discussion" to get through it all.


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## ALKB

draga said:


> We are both US citizens - he is a naturalized citizen and I am US native born.
> 
> But since my husband was born in Europe, he probably would not get a long-term visa and we would need to move with him exercising his freedom of movement right, and me applying for a residency card as his spouse.


Just checking - your husband is a dual national with a valid passport from his native country and didn´t have to give up/lost his EU nationality when he naturalized?


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## BackinFrance

ALKB said:


> Just checking - your husband is a dual national with a valid passport from his native country and didn´t have to give up/lost his EU nationality when he naturalized?


It is not usually men who have been required to give up their EU nationaliy when taking another, with perhaps the exception of German nationals, and even so it is quite rare'


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## ALKB

BackinFrance said:


> It is not usually men who have been required to give up their EU nationaliy when taking another, with perhaps the exception of German nationals, and even so it is quite rare'


Germans and Austrians (all genders) automatically lose their citizenship when naturalizing as the national of another country (recently, Germany has allowed dual nationality with EU countries) unless retention of citizenship is applied for and granted before applying for naturalization.

Dutch citizenship (all genders) can be lost if one lives abroad for too long.

This has caught lots of people unaware. As I said, I was just checking.


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## BackinFrance

Not true.


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## draga

Bevdeforges said:


> Your understanding of things is pretty much correct (save any last minute changes in procedure along the way and the vagaries of the departement and prefecture of whatever departement you settle in).
> 
> You won't need any contact with the OFII on arrival and no medical exam. You will still need private medical coverage to tide you over until you have your 3 months of bona fide residence established and can apply for national cover. There is a reason that the visa requirement is for a full year's cover - namely that the settling in process and processing your enrollment can take longer than expected. So ideally you may want to try and find a health care policy you can cancel at short notice (i.e. a month or two) once your national cover kicks in. (You'll also want to find a mutuelle cover - the "top up" insurance that you can tailor to your individual needs and situation.)
> 
> The one potential catch is that your husband (i.e. the EU member of the family) should be receiving some form of "state pension" (US SS or drawing from your IRA, 401K or similar plan works just fine) so that when you go to register as the "close family member of an EU national exercising their freedom of movement rights" he has proper claim on the status of "inactif - retraité." There will be a certain level of "confusion" over the fact that despite his EU nationality, he has no health care cover from his "home" country in the EU. You're far from the first to have this "issue" and it will take a certain amount of "discussion" to get through it all.


Thank you, Bev, for confirming our understanding, particularly that we don't need to meet with the OFII. It's a good idea to look for a health insurance policy that can be canceled at short notice. And thanks for the reminder about needing a "state pension". That is not a problem.


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## draga

ALKB said:


> Just checking - your husband is a dual national with a valid passport from his native country and didn´t have to give up/lost his EU nationality when he naturalized?


Thanks for you input. My husband does have dual citizenship.


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## Nunthewiser

draga said:


> Hello, my husband and I are wanting to retire to France. We are both US citizens - he is a naturalized citizen and I am US native born. We researched moving to France as US citizens with a long-stay visa and know that once we arrive in France we would need to have a medical exam and meet with OFII to get our carte de sejour.
> 
> But since my husband was born in Europe, he probably would not get a long-term visa and we would need to move with him exercising his freedom of movement right, and me applying for a residency card as his spouse. Based on our research of this route, an EU national does not need to apply for a carte de sejour, but he can ask for one. After 5 years of residency, he has the right for permanent residency. As his spouse, I would need to apply for a carte de sejour within 3 months of arrival. This would be valid for 5 years and can be renewed. After 5 years of residency, I could apply for a permanent residence card.
> 
> Is our understanding correct? If we move by him exercising his freedom of movement rights, do we still meet with OFII? Is there anything else that we need to do?
> 
> Thank you in advance for any information you may have about this.


I am a US/EU dual (Italian) and I can confirm this is all correct. The only catch is that in order to get into PUMa, the TCN spouse will need to have the CdS or at least the recepisse in hand. Then the usual wait from CPAM. So, it will likely be a long process. You also may find that the prefectures will want to give the spouse a one year CdS. The law is written such that the duration is based on the expected length of time (max 5 years) that the citizen will be in country, so you need to make the case that the citizen will be permanently resident, if you can.


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## Bevdeforges

ALKB said:


> Germans and Austrians (all genders) automatically lose their citizenship when naturalizing as the national of another country (recently, Germany has allowed dual nationality with EU countries) unless retention of citizenship is applied for and granted before applying for naturalization.


I think there is some EU ruling or regulation that requires all EU countries to be considerably more lenient about allowing dual nationality between two EU countries. Only know this because the husband of a friend of mine has dual French-German nationality - when I asked, I think she told me that he had to show ongoing "contact" with Germany when taking French nationality, which was fairly easy given that his children and grandchildren all still live in Germany and he visits them frequently. I think he's even still in touch with his ex-wife there. But yes, you do have to notify the German Embassy before (or possibly as part of the process of) applying for the second nationality. It is also to have dual nationality if the person was German and the other nationality from birth. (Another friend's children - she was American and her husband was German. At the time the kids were born, they were supposed to decide at age 18 but the law changed at some point before the kids turned 18.)


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## BackinFrance

My DIL is Australian. She could become a naturalized citizen of various countries without losing her Australian citizenship. She certainly would not automatically lose her Australian citizenship. The only downside would be that she could not run for Federal Parliament or the Senate without first renouncing other citizenships. There have been instances where the previous Australian government tried to claim that certain first nations people were not Australian citizens, but that view was rejected by the highest court in the land.


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## ALKB

BackinFrance said:


> My DIL is Australian. She could become a naturalized citizen of various countries without losing her Australian citizenship. She certainly would not automatically lose her Australian citizenship. The only downside would be that she could not run for Federal Parliament or the Senate without first renouncing other citizenships. There have been instances where the previous Australian government tried to claim that certain first nations people were not Australian citizens, but that view was rejected by the highest court in the land.


Many countries allow dual natioanlity. Many don´t. What Australia allows has no relevance to what individual countries in the EU do or do not allow.

Austria:









Dual citizenship







www.oesterreich.gv.at





Germany:









Dual citizenship - multiple nationality


Is it possible to have another citizenship in addition to German citizenship?




www.bmi.bund.de





(There was a huge problem in the 1980s or early 1990s, when lots of naturalized Germans of Turkish origin reapplied for Turkish passports, not realizing they would automatically lose their German citizenship, then found themselves without residence permit and facing being evicted from the country in some cases. Also, my husband, who is from an Asian country most definitely had to renounce his citizenship before naturalizing as German.)

Netherlands:





__





Dual nationality | IND


Find out when you are allowed to have dual nationality, if you are or want to become a Dutch citizen.




ind.nl





Spain:



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_nationality_law#Dual_citizenship



I hear the Baltic countries are also not keen.

In any case, this was just to make sure OP is aware and since they confirmed that he was able to retaun hus citizenship, the point is moot.


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## BackinFrance

There is a big difference between being naturalized and having a nationality by birth. My German born friends in the US did not lose their German citizenship by becoming naturalized US citizens despite no contact with Germany for several decades (they have visited Germany over the past 20 years with their German passports).


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## draga

Nunthewiser said:


> I am a US/EU dual (Italian) and I can confirm this is all correct. The only catch is that in order to get into PUMa, the TCN spouse will need to have the CdS or at least the recepisse in hand. Then the usual wait from CPAM. So, it will likely be a long process. You also may find that the prefectures will want to give the spouse a one year CdS. The law is written such that the duration is based on the expected length of time (max 5 years) that the citizen will be in country, so you need to make the case that the citizen will be permanently resident, if you can.


Thank you for this information. It's good to know.


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## Bevdeforges

Net-net, "immigration" is an area that the EU (in its wisdom) has elected not to touch for the individual countries - other than perhaps some of the finer points of "freedom of movement" considerations for EU nationals moving to other EU countries. As you look into it, you'll find that each EU country has its "quirks" and particular conditions and variations on the notions of jus sanguinis vs. jus soli or the combination of the two. And most countries have changed (or at least "evolved" a bit) over the last decade or two. Some countries do (or don't) allow their nationals to pass on the "family" nationality to a child born overseas (even within the EU) and some countries do (or don't) allow children born on their territory to take local nationality (or place very precise conditions on that ability).


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## Peasant

BackinFrance said:


> It is not usually men who have been required to give up their EU nationaliy when taking another, with perhaps the exception of German nationals, and even so it is quite rare'


IIRC, Denmark and Austria don't allow dual citizenship.


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