# British/Australian moving to Spain seeks advice



## TVFH (Oct 29, 2017)

Hi,

I am new here so be gentle! My (DH) and I are both British born and bred and we emigrated to Australia 10 years ago. We hold British and Australian citizenship and passports. We have worked and travelled extensively in Australasia and are thinking of moving to Spain to be closer to family in the UK. The weather has a big factor to us not returning to Blighty.

Anyway, we think we have two options, to enter Spain on our British passports which I think is the easiest way, or to get a visa and enter through our Australian passport which seems much more complicated. A few questions:

1. Am I right in thinking we can enter Spain and stay indefinitely on our British passports until the rules change after Brexit?

2. If we are thinking of staying more than 3 months do we apply for the Residencia Permit straight away, do we need an NIE number and should we get that before the Residencia Permit?

3. I understand both the UK and Australia have dual taxation agreements with Spain, so if we transfer money from our Superannuation pension and savings in Australia, is there a box on the Spanish tax form which allows relief for tax already paid? 
In Australia we pay tax before the money goes into the Superannuation account, unlike the UK which taxes you when you take it out. We are self funded retirees, so will be drawing on our savings and Australian Superannuation pension fund as income.

4. Do we need to get a Residencia Permit, NIE before we can rent a property, open a bank account and buy a car?

5. Does anyone have any advice on areas where to settle? We prefer to be near the coast or just inland, in a smaller town with character but good medical facilities and shops etc. rather than a city.

I think I will leave it at that for now....I have so many questions but if you can offer any advice on any of the above we would much appreciate it.

Many thanks for at least taking the time to read!

TVFH :confused2:


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Hello!

Yes, as British passport holders you have the right to live in any EU country without a visa. In Spain, the requirements for residency are that you can prove you have enough money to live on and some sort of health insurance. The time limit for doing this is three months, but there's no reason you can't do it straight away. Just go to any police station that has an Oficina de Extranjeros with all your paperwork. You can get your NIE in the same process.

I believe you can rent a property and open a bank account without an NIE but the rules are changing all the time and can be interpreted differently depending where you are (a constant but irritating factor of life in Spain!)

Once you are settled, hire yourself a "gestor" who will sort out all your tax issues.

As for where to start looking, everyone will have different views, but if you want the benefits of being part of an international community where English is widely spoken, the Costa Blanca and the Costa del Sol are where most people start looking.


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## Pazcat (Mar 24, 2010)

One tip is if you hold an Aussie driving license you will need to take the complete theory and practical tests here in Spain. I have no idea if you exchanged your Brit license and if you can get it back or not but I guarantee that if you can it will save you a lot of time, money and confusion.


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## TVFH (Oct 29, 2017)

Thanks for your responses, I had no idea about the driving licence issue. We do have British licences but they would need to be renewed. Seems a lot of faffing about! I have looked into the tax situation a bit more and it does seem like the Spanish are more bureaucratic than the Brits, which is surprising. The Inheritance tax issue is also something I had not thought of....we have no tax issues like that over here. Seems a bit of a minefield. We paid tax on bringing our private pensions over here so we are reluctant to give up yet another chunk!


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## angkag (Oct 29, 2013)

I got a Spanish driving licence last year. I seem to remember my plastic British licence had expired, so I dug out my old paper licence (the one that expires at age 65) and used that to get a Spanish one issued, and it all went through fairly smoothly.

I thought to renew my British plastic licence first, but seem to remember I needed a UK address and also to declare that I was resident in the UK - so just went for the Spanish one instead.


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## brettaevans (Mar 23, 2012)

TVFH said:


> Hi,
> 
> 3. I understand both the UK and Australia have dual taxation agreements with Spain, so if we transfer money from our Superannuation pension and savings in Australia, is there a box on the Spanish tax form which allows relief for tax already paid?
> In Australia we pay tax before the money goes into the Superannuation account, unlike the UK which taxes you when you take it out. We are self funded retirees, so will be drawing on our savings and Australian Superannuation pension fund as income.
> ...


Hi TVFH,

you will need to make sure that any relocation doesn't adversely affect your superannuation. As an example if you currently hold your pension in a SMSF then by moving overseas you may breach the CM&C rules so tread carefully and put the proper measures in place BEFORE you go.

Have a great trip (if you end up moving)  .

All the best,

Brett


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## TVFH (Oct 29, 2017)

Hi Brett, 

Thanks for your response. The Super fund has now been converted to a Income Based Pension Fund and we are drawing down the minimum 4% as per the rules in Australia. We just wondered if the Spanish Tax Office would then tax us on that transfer to Spain if we emigrate....given that we have already paid tax on the Super fund in Australia?


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## TVFH (Oct 29, 2017)

angkag said:


> I got a Spanish driving licence last year. I seem to remember my plastic British licence had expired, so I dug out my old paper licence (the one that expires at age 65) and used that to get a Spanish one issued, and it all went through fairly smoothly.
> 
> I thought to renew my British plastic licence first, but seem to remember I needed a UK address and also to declare that I was resident in the UK - so just went for the Spanish one instead.


Thanks for that....I would think we would be snookered then as our UK licences have expired. Do you have to take a full driving and written test?


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## Pazcat (Mar 24, 2010)

Yes, the full written test, a medical and then the practical test which will be in Spanish.
The written is a series of multiple choice questions that can be done in English on a computer but the translations are poor and confusing and it is a grind to get to the point where they feel you can pass the actual test at the license center.

I would consider staying in the UK first for a month or so and renewing your UK one, it will be less faff and probably cheaper in rent and fees than doing the full Spanish course.
Then all you have to do is have a medical here and swap your license.


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## TVFH (Oct 29, 2017)

Pazcat said:


> Yes, the full written test, a medical and then the practical test which will be in Spanish.
> The written is a series of multiple choice questions that can be done in English on a computer but the translations are poor and confusing and it is a grind to get to the point where they feel you can pass the actual test at the license center.
> 
> I would consider staying in the UK first for a month or so and renewing your UK one, it will be less faff and probably cheaper in rent and fees than doing the full Spanish course.
> Then all you have to do is have a medical here and swap your license.


Gosh, it does seem like a lot of faffing....I had heard of the complicated Spanish bureaucracy, but it does seem a bit over the top, especially if you have had a driving licence for almost 50 years! Might have to have a rethink.  Thanks for your info anyway.


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## angkag (Oct 29, 2013)

TVFH said:


> Gosh, it does seem like a lot of faffing....I had heard of the complicated Spanish bureaucracy, but it does seem a bit over the top, especially if you have had a driving licence for almost 50 years! Might have to have a rethink.  Thanks for your info anyway.


Could be worse ! I've been a motorcycle enthusiast for many years, but to drive a motorbike in Japan, you have to take the local test. You get given a 500c bike for the test and you have to do a number of circus tricks with it to pass. Most foreigners fail before they even start the engine as you have to kick up the side-stand before sitting on the bike (which no-one ever does in practice) else insta-fail !

Even decades on bikes, one of the exercises - driving a tight figure eight, at very slow speed with a heavy unfamiliar bike, with very wide fairings and not touching the bollards - was quite memorable. 

Then to purchase a car you have to have a Japanese name. So you have to apply to get one, which ends up being a katakana phonetic version of what your name sounds like in Japanese, then you can get the all-important 'chop' (a stamp with your Japanese katakana characters on) - and THEN you can buy a car. 

Compared to the Japanese, the Spanish are amateurs at bureaucracy.


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## TVFH (Oct 29, 2017)

angkag said:


> Could be worse ! I've been a motorcycle enthusiast for many years, but to drive a motorbike in Japan, you have to take the local test. You get given a 500c bike for the test and you have to do a number of circus tricks with it to pass. Most foreigners fail before they even start the engine as you have to kick up the side-stand before sitting on the bike (which no-one ever does in practice) else insta-fail !
> 
> Even decades on bikes, one of the exercises - driving a tight figure eight, at very slow speed with a heavy unfamiliar bike, with very wide fairings and not touching the bollards - was quite memorable.
> 
> ...



They don’t make it easy do they? You have my sympathies!


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## TVFH (Oct 29, 2017)

brettaevans said:


> Hi TVFH,
> 
> you will need to make sure that any relocation doesn't adversely affect your superannuation. As an example if you currently hold your pension in a SMSF then by moving overseas you may breach the CM&C rules so tread carefully and put the proper measures in place BEFORE you go.
> 
> ...


Hi Brett....could I just ask what CM&C is?

Thanks. :confused2:


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## 95995 (May 16, 2010)

If you were to move to France, you wouldn't have to take a driving test as your Aussie licence is exchangeable. If you are an early retiree you could also join the French health system, which is a contributory one, once you can prove 3 months residence here (usually via utility bills). If one or both of you receives a British OAP, then you can apply to the DWP for an S1, irrespective of the EU country you to choose to move to. In France you can apply for French citizenship after 5 years' residence and dual or multiple citizenship is recognised. In France your superannuation pension is taxable, but you get taxed as a household which for most is an advantage. However France is also harsh when it comes to inheritance tax. You should check out the tax agreements for both countries on the ATO site https://treasury.gov.au/tax-treaties/income-tax-treaties/.


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## paulhe (Jan 2, 2018)

you should also be aware that if resident overseas from Australia your home in Australia is no longer exempt from CGT - and the whole period of ownership is regarded by ATO not just the period of overseas residence
Paul


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## TVFH (Oct 29, 2017)

EverHopeful said:


> If you were to move to France, you wouldn't have to take a driving test as your Aussie licence is exchangeable. If you are an early retiree you could also join the French health system, which is a contributory one, once you can prove 3 months residence here (usually via utility bills). If one or both of you receives a British OAP, then you can apply to the DWP for an S1, irrespective of the EU country you to choose to move to. In France you can apply for French citizenship after 5 years' residence and dual or multiple citizenship is recognised. In France your superannuation pension is taxable, but you get taxed as a household which for most is an advantage. However France is also harsh when it comes to inheritance tax. You should check out the tax agreements for both countries on the ATO site https://treasury.gov.au/tax-treaties/income-tax-treaties/.


Thanks very much for that info which is most helpful. We are keeping all our options open, so could end up anywhere at this rate! So many factors to consider and it’s not a simple procedure or choice given the tax issues etc. I’m thinking wherever we end up and if we do leave Australia we might be better off leaving the Income based pension fund here and drawing from it to fund our retirement. I wonder if there is anyone out there who knows if you can do that and if there are tax implications with Australia or the country that you move to, particularly if they have the DTT?


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## TVFH (Oct 29, 2017)

Thanks Norman....appreciate your input. I think we will take a look at a few places along the coast and spend some time doing a rekkie.


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## 95995 (May 16, 2010)

TVFH said:


> Thanks very much for that info which is most helpful. We are keeping all our options open, so could end up anywhere at this rate! So many factors to consider and it’s not a simple procedure or choice given the tax issues etc. I’m thinking wherever we end up and if we do leave Australia we might be better off leaving the Income based pension fund here and drawing from it to fund our retirement. I wonder if there is anyone out there who knows if you can do that and if there are tax implications with Australia or the country that you move to, particularly if they have the DTT?


I have left my super in my pension fund in Australia and use it to fund my retirement. I think most funds require you to have it paid into an Australian bank account - mine does but then I transfer it to my French account via one of the money transfer companies. Since I'm tax resident in France, I declare it here as a 'retraite' (pension) and as I'm no longer tax resident in Australia it's not taxable there. My superannuation pension happens to derive from government employment so is not taxable here, although the fisc reflects it in my RFR (revenu fiscal de référence or overall income). 

It seems that if you receive a pension you don't have to pay contributions to the French health system, at least in the 2nd calendar year that you are attached to the system.

There are some other key issues that you have to bear in mind when retiring overseas:


Exchange rate fluctuations (the AUD is pretty volatile and there is no way you can know what the exchange rate will be eg. in 5, 10, 15 years' time, so it's worth considering having some of your funds invested in eg. EUR or USD.
Real estate

what is the market likely to be if you choose to sell up and move elsewhere, including to another country?
what are the local costs to renovate (very high in France compared with Australia)
heating/cooling costs (some buildings in France for example can be cold and hard to insulate, but there is a regulated diagnostic process which should help you to avoid those and choose a property that performs well environmentally and in terms of energy use)

availability and standard of health care
the cost of living in the chosen country could increase, possibly dramatically


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## AliQ (Jan 5, 2018)

*Hi*

I'm following this thread with interest as we're in a similar situation ourselves.
My husband and I are both British and left many years ago to live in Australia.
My husband now receives a UK pension and I plan to retire this year, and we want to relocate to Spain or France.
I'm interested in the suggestion made by Pazcat about considering a temporary move back to the UK first.
Is this pertinent just to the driving licence issue ? or would a move to the UK first make it easier for other issues like applying for the EHIC card ?
And if a temporary move back to the UK is advisable, how long for ? and what else could we sort out (other than our driving licences) to make the transition smoother ?
Thank you.


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## Pazcat (Mar 24, 2010)

Well for me I would say purely for the license thing, if you went to the same driving school I did and there are two of you you would be over 2 grand out of pocket for a start.
It just seems to me that it would be easier to have an UK address for a while while you get your UK license back and then move on. Not sure how it works exactly in the UK but I know it says you need to be resident for 185 days to swap a license but does that count if you have previously had a UK license?

At the end of the day you can do the Spanish test here and it shouldn't be a problem but it is costly, time consuming and a source of frustration but if you need to drive it needs to be done one way or another.


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## AliQ (Jan 5, 2018)

Many thanks Pazcat - I appreciate such a quick reply.


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## TVFH (Oct 29, 2017)

EverHopeful said:


> I have left my super in my pension fund in Australia and use it to fund my retirement. I think most funds require you to have it paid into an Australian bank account - mine does but then I transfer it to my French account via one of the money transfer companies. Since I'm tax resident in France, I declare it here as a 'retraite' (pension) and as I'm no longer tax resident in Australia it's not taxable there. My superannuation pension happens to derive from government employment so is not taxable here, although the fisc reflects it in my RFR (revenu fiscal de référence or overall income).
> 
> It seems that if you receive a pension you don't have to pay contributions to the French health system, at least in the 2nd calendar year that you are attached to the system.
> 
> ...


Thank you for that....there are many things to consider and we will address all of them.
I think the things you mention are relevant to wherever you decide to lay your hat.
We have moved about 25 times and have lived on 4 continents so we are used to adjusting and coping with whatever the bureaucracy throws at us. Currency fluctuations are always a bane, but these things have a way of sorting themselves out one way or another.


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## TVFH (Oct 29, 2017)

paulhe said:


> you should also be aware that if resident overseas from Australia your home in Australia is no longer exempt from CGT - and the whole period of ownership is regarded by ATO not just the period of overseas residence
> Paul


Thanks for that Paul but it is not relevant in our case as we don’t have any property here.


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## TVFH (Oct 29, 2017)

Pazcat said:


> Well for me I would say purely for the license thing, if you went to the same driving school I did and there are two of you you would be over 2 grand out of pocket for a start.
> It just seems to me that it would be easier to have an UK address for a while while you get your UK license back and then move on. Not sure how it works exactly in the UK but I know it says you need to be resident for 185 days to swap a license but does that count if you have previously had a UK license?
> 
> At the end of the day you can do the Spanish test here and it shouldn't be a problem but it is costly, time consuming and a source of frustration but if you need to drive it needs to be done one way or another.


Hi Pazcat,
I think you are misinformed about the 185 days qualifying for the UK driving licence. I looked on the Gov.uk website yesterday and also did a bit more research and if you have a UK Driving licence which has expired then when you go back to the UK you can apply online. The DVLC has your records on their database. You just need to provide proof that you are who you say you are (copy of passport), a resident in the UK (no stated length) and payment of £14, and people say that you should get it back within a week.

Seems a much easier way than all the rigmarole and expense of taking a Spanish test!
Your suggestion of going back even for a short term seems to be the easiest thing.
If anyone is thinking of doing that, perhaps put your goods into store, move back to the UK for a while, then make the transition having done a rekkie in between.

If you find Spain is not for you, then you’ve lost nothing and you would stay put in Blighty....or maybe another EU country like France?

Thanks for your input.


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## TVFH (Oct 29, 2017)

AliQ said:


> I'm following this thread with interest as we're in a similar situation ourselves.
> My husband and I are both British and left many years ago to live in Australia.
> My husband now receives a UK pension and I plan to retire this year, and we want to relocate to Spain or France.
> I'm interested in the suggestion made by Pazcat about considering a temporary move back to the UK first.
> ...


Hi Ali,

Looks like we are having the same thoughts! I have replied to Pazcat, see below regarding the UK Driving Licence issue. It is also relevant to getting a EHIC Health card. If you go back to the UK and reside there and register with a GP then you can apply for the card. You don’t have to wait at all as far as I am aware, only to prove it you are resident (not a visitor) at the time. Expat visitors to the UK cannot have free healthcare but if it is your intention to reside in the UK again, then you are entitled to use the NHS and a GP. Perhaps you could msg me and I can share some info. I am new on here so I don’t know if I can do that but I would be happy to let you know what bits I have found out.


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## TVFH (Oct 29, 2017)

angkag said:


> I got a Spanish driving licence last year. I seem to remember my plastic British licence had expired, so I dug out my old paper licence (the one that expires at age 65) and used that to get a Spanish one issued, and it all went through fairly smoothly.
> 
> I thought to renew my British plastic licence first, but seem to remember I needed a UK address and also to declare that I was resident in the UK - so just went for the Spanish one instead.


That’s interesting....did you not need to sit the Spanish written test at all? Did they issue it based on your old UK paper copy or did you need to do the driving test? 
My UK licence expired in 2010, but I do still have the paper copy, I wonder if I could use that then? Would save a whole lot of money and going through the Spanish written test and medical etc....many thanks for that info.


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## justsean (Feb 25, 2020)

Hi, 
Did you ever find out the answer regarding taxes taking your superannuation income stream to Spain


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