# Camaras. town councils



## Mac62 (May 13, 2015)

Hello folks!

I was reading on another expat forum recently regarding temp residency, and on there a few people were saying that some Cameras have only been issuing temp residency cards
for only weeks, as opposed to years? The reason given is Brexit. Has anyone on here know if this is true?

Cheers!


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## MrBife (Jul 26, 2009)

People from all over the world apply for Portuguese residency, it seems illogical and unlikely that Brexit features in the thoughts of anyone responsible or motivates their action.

Why would anyone believe this to be true?

Posts like this one only server to perpetuate a misunderstaning


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## travelling-man (Jun 17, 2011)

It's months not weeks & more precisely it's 6 months & as of about a week ago it's happened to at least 10 people spread over several Cameras & all are UK passport holders. 

This from the lady who is collating the info: 

"For those of you who don’t know me, I am part of the core groups of Brexpats Hear Our Voice (BHOV) and British in Portugal Facebook groups. Both of these groups were created as the Brexit process commenced and, it was clear that citizens rights, including residency, needed to be addressed and negotiated with the relevant government departments, both in the respective EU27 countries, and the UK. As a direct consequence BHOV started and has maintained direct communication with many of the British Embassies in the EU.

As British in Portugal is affiliated with BHOV, discussions commenced with the British Embassy in order to help, as much as possible, British citizens not only retain/obtain their rights but to ensure they were assisted both on the ground and by the relevant authorities. Subsequently, this has resulted in a number of discussions with the Embassy, over the past few months, about residency in Portugal.

It is essential that British citizens, in order to retain/obtain any rights they are entitled to, come 29th March 2019, that they are a registered resident. This can be carried out initially at the Camara office local to where a person is residing. It has become apparent, over a number of years that the various Camara offices have differing requirements when it comes to residency. Some require proof of income, some don’t. If they do this can be done by providing wage slips, pension payments or even bank statements showing where the income is paid into. On the SEF website it states that the Portuguese minimum wage income is required for residency. This, at the moment, is €603 per month but obviously will rise slightly next year when it is reevaluated. Camaras will ask whether a person has income not necessarily proof of it. This is due to the varying interpretations of the law within each Camara.

Another interpretation is the provision of a British passport as proof of identity. Some Camaras will issue residency papers just until the expiry date of the presented passport, others will give the full initial five years regardless of when a new passport is required. What is standard across the Camara offices is a need to provide proof of an address. This, for example, can take the form of house deeds, a rental contract or a utility bill.

In other words, regarding the information and documents that are required it will depend on the Camara office that is attended. If a Camara office only provides an initial six month residency period, then a polite enquiry should be made as to why it isn’t for five years. If six months has already been given then it is best if a return visit is made requesting the reason for this.

Finally, in addition to the information above, the British Embassy have a number of meetings being held over the next few months around Portugal. Additional meetings are in the process of being planned and once they have been confirmed notice will be given of when and where they are."


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## Mac62 (May 13, 2015)

Thank you travelling-man for taking the time to post a helpful reply, rather than the pompous, peevish and arrogant post of the other reply to my original post.


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## Knollbrow (Aug 15, 2017)

Coincidentally I just got my 5 year residency sorted today in Odemira (Alentejo) - and i’m totally delighted!

No mention of Brexit whatsoever.

I had to provide the following to the Odemira Camara:

Proof of address (Atestado de Residencia) - I had to get this from my local Junta de freguesia in São Teotónio- cost €8. To get this I needed to provide my passport, the caderneta predial Urbana (building permit) for my property and to fill in a form provided by them (it included NIF, address, DoB, passport number, expiry etc)

Passport (again)

Proof of income (bank statement and pension statement)

This cost €15
So €23 in total

I think probably the best €23 I have ever spent !


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## Mac62 (May 13, 2015)

Parabens Knollbrow! 

Could you please share how long the process took? I want to apply as soon as I arrive in Jan/Feb, and have it sorted before March 29th.

Cheers.


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## travelling-man (Jun 17, 2011)

Mac62: Registering residency should only take about 20-30 minutes & you can wait whilst it's being done................ And for what it's worth, the Camaras in my area let you just rock up with no need for an appointment but I understand some do ask you to book beforehand. 

You probably know the process but in case you don't: 

As you have a passport from an EU member state, you have the right to enter & reside. 

Once here, you need to go to a Fiscal Office (usually in the Camara/Town Hall) and get a Fiscal number/document & to do that you need to provide your passport, some kind of ID to show your address & a few Euros........ this should take about 20 minutes. 

After you've been here 3 months & before 4 months, (it can be before 3 months if you wish) you go to your local Camara & register your residency status with them. This document is called a Residencia & is valid for 5 years. You need to provide your passport, Fiscal Document (AKA NIF) address in Portugal & a few Euros.

Then you go to your local Junta/Council & get your Attestado and for that you need passport, NIF & Residencia. 

NOTE: 
Some Camaras require the applicant to get their Attestado before they’ll issue the Residencia but the Attestado attests that you are a resident & if you’re not yet resident how can it attest to that? However the easy answer to that is just to go with the flow & give them what they want. - If the person issuing the Attestado refuses to issue it before you have the Residencia just have one call the other & sort it out amongst themselves. 

As Portuguese NHS entitlement is now SOLELY based on residency, you're then entitled to register with a Doctor & get the same care as any Portuguese person. 

Now the variables........ Portugal sometimes suffers from variable bureaucracy where individual civil servants misinterpret the rules. 

A couple of examples are some Doctor's surgeries ask you to provide a social security number before you can register but this is no longer required.......... but if you're going to work, you need one anyway so easier to go with the flow & just get one from the SS office. 

If your not going to work then just tell the person at the Doctor's office to call the SS office & let them sort it out between them. 

Some Camaras (notably Penela) try to ask EU passport holders (sic) to provide proof of income or financial security but this should only apply to non EU passports & they have no right to ask for that. 

Some EU legislation does suggest that holders of EU member state passports do need 'sufficient funds' to gain residency but I can find no mention of having to actually prove 'sufficient funds' or what amount of funds is sufficient therefore assume that if the individual says he/she has sufficient funds then the funds they say they have are sufficient. 


Right to reside EU PPT holders & partners

http://www.sef.pt/portal/v10/en/aspx/apoiocliente/detalheApoio.aspx?fromIndex=0&id_Linha=4351 

UK entitlement to PT NHS with/without SS number 

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/living-in-portugal 


How to register on the PT NHS in Portuguese & English

https://www.ers.pt/pages/438?news_id=1203 

If you need to complain about not getting registered on the PT NHS system: https://www.ers.pt/pages/356 

You can apply for your Portuguese EHIC card here: https://www.portaldocidadao.pt/en/w...eguro-de-doenca-da-seguranca-social-renovacao 

This link from SEF refers to “sufficient means” but fails to quote a figure of what constitutes ‘sufficient means’ & as SEF only deal with renewals for EU member state passport holders & all applications & renewals of non EU member state passport holders I’m not sure it’ll be of much help in many cases: 
https://imigrante.sef.pt/en/renovar...dbZLeUgGxW9PUPBA2bom4fOKZ-gopAA-R75LuBquGFrzw


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## Knollbrow (Aug 15, 2017)

Hi Mac62

To get the Atestado de Residencia it took me 24hrs - I submitted the request to the Junta de Fregeusia and was told to come back to collect it next day - it then took 5 mins to retrieve the document and issue a receipt.

Armed with the Atestado, I then went straight to the Camara in Odemira - I took a ticket and waited 5 mins for my number to be called and it then took me about 30 mins sitting with a lady from the Camara before I had the residency document in my hand. There were some additional questions- like is this my first application (yes), was I married (yes), and how long was my further education period (4 years at university).

So if you have all your documents to hand i’d allow a couple of days to sort it out.
If could be quicker or slower depending on the Junta/Camara you are dealing with.

I made a real effort to ask in Portuguese (it’s easy with google translate app on your phone) - I think it was appreciated- i said I was so pleased to be a recognised citizen now and she beamed with pride- like I said I was totally delighted.

Good luck with your application 
Cheers 
Russ


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## Mac62 (May 13, 2015)

Thank you both for the prompt replies! 

I'm a wee bit confused with the wording of how soon you can first apply. Can I apply within the first weeks of my arrival, obviously provided I have a long term rental agreement/address and all the appropriate docs?

Cheers again!


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## Knollbrow (Aug 15, 2017)

Hi Mac62

I’d say give it a try... the worst that can happen is that they tell you to come back in say 60 days time.

To be honest I wasnt aware of any specific arrival date check being applied in my application- but that doesn’t mean there wasn’t one.

In my case i applied exactly 90 days after I arrived on 24 August - I had this thing carefully planned for as long as the Brexit date was known... I even retired 1 year earlier than planned to be sure to get residency well before Brexit. 

We’ve been coming to Portugal as family for 20+ years and it was our dream to retire here. I was very very lucky to find the most fantastic home, and took the biggest financial gamble of our lives to secure it. Maybe all those hellish years working as a technology programme manager in a bank honed my planning and delivery skills - but it all went like clockwork and we have literally found paradise. As the Portuguese might say ... Paraiso Escondido!

To ease the application process (and also for future arrangements - wills, tax, driving licence etc) make sure you have hardcopy of your latest bank statements to prove you will not be a burden on the Portuguese state ( like me you’ll probably need to enable paper statements for a bit), pension/income statements, photocopies of passport - infact bring everything you can think of (birth cert, marriage cert, driving licence, educational qualifications etc) this is still a very paper based bureaucratic country, so it is better to bring more docs rather than less - at some point in the future you’ll be glad that you did (that’s good prep for you to focus on right now)

Good luck with your application... go with a positive outcome in mind, smile, speak a little Portuguese, pay the fees ... and you’ll be sorted !
Cheers


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## travelling-man (Jun 17, 2011)

They prefer you to register residency not before 3 months & before 4 months but you can do it sooner if you want and/or if you have good reason................. I registered mine within 2-3 weeks of arrival because I wanted to create as large a time window as possible for the tax free car import/matriculation application & they didn't even question it.


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## Mac62 (May 13, 2015)

Thanks again Russ!


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## Mac62 (May 13, 2015)

Good to know travelling-man, I appreciate the reply.


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## ukReturner (Mar 23, 2017)

> It is essential that British citizens, in order to retain/obtain any rights they are entitled to, come 29th March 2019, that they are a registered resident.


Does this mean that a UK person going to Portugal after 29th March will not be able to obtain residency?
I know there is probably not a definitive answer to this yet, but is there good reason for thinking that this will be the case?


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## travelling-man (Jun 17, 2011)

ukReturner said:


> Does this mean that a UK person going to Portugal after 29th March will not be able to obtain residency?
> I know there is probably not a definitive answer to this yet, but is there good reason for thinking that this will be the case?


As you say no-one knows but the most likely scenario (IMO) is they'll lose the right to enter, reside & work etc & will probably then need to meet the same criteria as applicants from non EU member state countries such as the US & Oz etc.

The right to enter etc applies only to EU member states & (assuming it goes to plan) the UK will obviously no longer be a member state.


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## ukReturner (Mar 23, 2017)

travelling-man said:


> Mac62: Registering residency should only take about 20-30 minutes & you can wait whilst it's being done................ And for what it's worth, the Camaras in my area let you just rock up with no need for an appointment but I understand some do ask you to book beforehand.
> 
> You probably know the process but in case you don't:
> 
> ...


ma
This is very useful information.
Thanks for your efforts


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