# House guests from UK



## Melosine (Apr 28, 2013)

Apparently Brit expats living in France will now have to pay for a special invitation for family and friends to visit. 
Cannot find any info on whether Spain might follow suit.


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

Melosine said:


> Apparently Brit expats living in France will now have to pay for a special invitation for family and friends to visit.
> Cannot find any info on whether Spain might follow suit.


Really. How odd... Especially as they're hoping to open to tourists. ? Where did you read this... I'm happy to pay but seems an odd idea!


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Apparently....but I’ve yet to find official confirmation of this from any EU or EU member state bulletin.


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## blondebob (Aug 16, 2019)

Is this it?


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## Relyat (Sep 29, 2013)

I saw this referring to Spain. 
It was on FB, ask Richelle Andalucia. 

A lot to read, including what might be an "exemption" for holders of return tickets. 
I can't see it being widely implemented.


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

Looks to be something from 2007! Can't see any fees attached. Oh well it is what it is.. like everything else I'll wait for an official source


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

Carta de invitación


Ministerio del Interior, Espa�a



www.interior.gob.es


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## blondebob (Aug 16, 2019)

Megsmum said:


> Looks to be something from 2007! Can't see any fees attached. Oh well it is what it is.. like everything else I'll wait for an official source


Was posted today on FB site other than that I have No idea. Are none of the links in the text official sources?

Says in text at bottom fee 74,31 euro


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## blondebob (Aug 16, 2019)

Megsmum said:


> Carta de invitación
> 
> 
> Ministerio del Interior, Espa�a
> ...


That link leads to the form I posted above with the 2007 date?


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

Bit more digging I think it's to do with visa application for those tourists 




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Carta de invitación para visitar el espacio Schengen | AXA Schengen


La carta de invitación es uno de los documentos clave para realizar un viaje al espacio Schengen, tanto de corta duración como por un período superior a tres meses.




www.axa-schengen.com


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

The Legislative Order refered to is indeed from 2007 and applies to all non-EU tourists visiting Spain, so I can't see why it wouldn't apply to UK tourists now:





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BOE.es - BOE-A-2007-9609 Orden PRE/1283/2007, de 10 de mayo, por la que se establecen los términos y requisitos para la expedición de la carta de invitación de particulares a favor de extranjeros que pretendan acceder al territorio nacional por motivos de carácter turístico o privado.







www.boe.es


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

Overandout said:


> The Legislative Order refered to is indeed from 2007 and applies to all non-EU tourists visiting Spain, so I can't see why it wouldn't apply to UK tourists now:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I agree. But. It's equally been agreed that UK citizens do not require a tourist visa... 
With a visit here in four weeks I've not seen anything apart from this thread ( thanks👍)


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

I thought that was for anyone needing a visa such as a Schengen visa to visit Spain, & indeed the legislation does talk about Schengen, on a quick look through.


British citzens don't need a Schengen visa, so my gut feeling is that the letter of invitation isn't needed.

Happy to be corrected if anyone ever finds out for certain though.


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

That was my take on it. I'm pretty certain with tourist season potentially starting soon this would have been picked up by hysterical media and airline industry etc


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## Isobella (Oct 16, 2014)

I think it is where it is suspected that the person may be intending to work, has no return ticket etc. Years ago we had Spanish au pairs and I issued them with a letter, they also had to register at local Police station. I am visiting Daughter in Paris in July and she hasn’t heard anything.


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

Just spoke to a friend who is living in France. The French government announced free PCR tests for tourists yesterday so he feels it's highly unlikely they will start charging to visit


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## The Skipper (Nov 26, 2014)

Isobella said:


> I think it is where it is suspected that the person may be intending to work, has no return ticket etc. Years ago we had Spanish au pairs and I issued them with a letter, they also had to register at local Police station. I am visiting Daughter in Paris in July and she hasn’t heard anything.


My son, a lawyer, lives in Paris and he sent me a message last week: "We’ve just learnt this week that the UK now falls into “other countries” that require us to declare non-EU visitors as guests, a month in advance of arrival and 30€ a pop, with a whole bunch of paperwork. I assume it’s the same in Spain as it’s a Schengen area document. Takes the spontaneity away, but to be fair we always planned ahead. It’s not a new formality (was already there for non-EU) but I’ve only just realized it applies." This is the link he attached: Attestation d'accueil


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

The Skipper said:


> My son, a lawyer, lives in Paris and he sent me a message last week: "We’ve just learnt this week that the UK now falls into “other countries” that require us to declare non-EU visitors as guests, a month in advance of arrival and 30€ a pop, with a whole bunch of paperwork. I assume it’s the same in Spain as it’s a Schengen area document. Takes the spontaneity away, but to be fair we always planned ahead. It’s not a new formality (was already there for non-EU) but I’ve only just realized it applies." This is the link he attached: Attestation d'accueil


For tourists who require a visa. UK citizens don't so this we think this does not apply.


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

Although I feel like I should possibly cut back on my legal posts and leave this to the professionals, my last comment on this is that the 4th paragraph of the BOE Order does clearly say that the invitation letter applies to foreign visitors from 3rd countries who do not need visas to visit Spain and that the border agent can ask to see it.

In the 5th paragraph it says that for 3rd country nationals who do need a visa to visit Spain, the same letter can be used as a document to support the application.

The entire Order is about standardising and formalising the letter, so I really can see how the view of The Skipper's son would be totally correct assuming French law and Spanish law have ratified the same EU Directive, which is quite a safe assumption I think.


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## Isobella (Oct 16, 2014)

Doesn’t make sense. How can they differentiate between tourists coming to stay with family to those who have rented a villa for a few weeks. This all started with the half baked Guardian story of the Spanish girl coming over to look after her Brothers kids and brought a letter. She did not have a return flight.


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## NickZ (Jun 26, 2009)

Hotels in much of Europe have always taken your info and forwarded it. Nothing new there. In Italy in theory if you were staying in a private residence you had to register.



> Lo straniero proveniente _da altro Paese dell’area Schengen_ e già in possesso del timbro uniforme Schengen sul passaporto apposto dalla Polizia di frontiera del Paese di primo scalo, all’ingresso in Italia, entro otto giorni, dovrà rendere la “*dichiarazione di presenza*”, al Questore della provincia in cui si trova. Tale dichiarazione non è necessaria se ha preso alloggio in una struttura alberghiera.


Which translates to

A foreigner coming from within the Schengen zone with a stamped passport has to file the form unless staying in a hotel.

If you fly directly into Italy your passport is stamped and you avoid this filing. 

None of this is new.


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

NickZ said:


> Hotels in much of Europe have always taken your info and forwarded it. Nothing new there. In Italy in theory if you were staying in a private residence you had to register.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I don't think anyone is saying it's not new. It's simply that other &3rd countries require a tourist visa..that's my understanding, UK citizens will not. I'm pretty certain this, if it applies, will be on airline and tourism websites, just like all other information, equally, the UK Gov website would have, imho , put this on the post brext website. Because it's come from Karen on Facebook doesn't make it a fact. My daughters booked to arrive on june 24. No where has this been mentioned. I'm not for one moment dismissing it but until Spain formally announced it or reports of people bring turned sway at the airport I'll worry.


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## Turtles (Jan 9, 2011)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1394720800234684422


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## NickZ (Jun 26, 2009)

Megsmum said:


> I don't think anyone is saying it's not new. It's simply that other &3rd countries require a tourist visa..that's my understanding, UK citizens will not.


We don't know if this is a visa thing. From this discussion it only applies to people staying in private residences. That means it's nothing to do with a visa requirement. If you stay in a hotel the hotel handles it .

What percentage of UK visitors are going to be staying with friends? The Italian equivalent even applies to AirBnB


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

NickZ said:


> We don't know if this is a visa thing.


Yes we do, the Spanish legislative order says that you need it (the formal invitation letter) even if no visa is required, and that if you need a visa you should submit the invitation letter as part of the visa application. 

I can't comment on the Italian version.


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## NickZ (Jun 26, 2009)

Overandout said:


> Yes we do, the Spanish legislative order says that you need it (the formal invitation letter) even if no visa is required, and that if you need a visa you should submit the invitation letter as part of the visa application.
> 
> I can't comment on the Italian version.


But it only applies to house guests right? That's my point. If it was a visa requirement it would apply to everybody.


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

The basic idea is that the authorities want to know where all non EU tourists are at all times. 

If you are booked into a hotel or legal guest house, that information is reported by the owner / manager, if you go to a private home, this process serves the same purpose.


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

A number of other 3rd country nationals apart from UK citizens don't need visas to come to Schengen zone countries as tourists, though, Megsmum. 









Visas for Spain: Tourist, Student and Work | Spain Visas


Do you need a visa for Spain? Find out everything you need to know about different types of visas and how to apply.




www.spainvisa.eu




.


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

Lynn R said:


> A number of other 3rd country nationals apart from UK citizens don't need visas to come to Schengen zone countries as tourists, though, Megsmum.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thank you..didn't realise as it's not had an affect on me an mine before. 
Surley though, this should be announced LOUDLY to all those traveling to Spain. If it wasn't for this thread and done digging I'd be none the wiser .Where/who in officildom do I get an answer from. ?


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## blondebob (Aug 16, 2019)

Just seen on another forum. 

*IMPORTANT NOTICE*
There has been much said already about the ‘carta de invitación’ (letter of invitation). Most of the comments on social media have been circulated without evidence of source so are really just hearsay and not something we condone. However, Richard and I have been trying to get the facts about whether the ‘carta de invitación’ will be applied to UK Nationals and we are told that the answers are held by the Spanish authorities and can be found on the Interior Ministry website with more limited information on the Policia Nacional website.
http://www.interior.gob.es/.../regime.../carta-de-invitacion
https://sede.policia.gob.es/.../extr.../pr_doc_car_invi.html
What is the ‘carta de invitación? It is a type of ‘permission’ entitling those visitors who require a visa who do not have a named accommodation (ie those staying in private accommodation with friends/family or their own second homes here) and has to be obtained from the police and paid for by the host in advance of the visitor arriving who then presents it upon arrival. It assists third country nationals, who intend to spend time in Spain, to comply with the Schengen Border Checks. We all know that the British are now allowed to visit Spain for up to 90 days in any 180 days without the need for a visa but we are told that UKNs will, in theory, also be subject to full Schengen Border Checks. Visitors might therefore be asked to produce an onward/return ticket, a hotel booking, rental contract, property deeds etc.
Please note the inconclusive words ‘in theory’ and ‘might’ in the previous paragraph because nothing seems to carry a simple yes/no answer where Brexit is concerned and we all know how the WA has been misinterpreted even by the professionals. Will this be applied to UKNs and, if it is, how strict will the border checks be especially given the free access of up to 90 days to the Schengen area? Not forgetting, of course, the necessary admin, manpower, time and costs that Spain would need to invest in. However, until we have a further and conclusive response we recommend that any of you who are expecting visitors soon consult the websites above and contact the Interior Ministry/National Police in case of doubt.
Until we know more, no posts will be accepted on the subject. It has already been said that we deal in fact and we certainly do not want to add to any rumours and scaremongering!


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

NickZ said:


> But it only applies to house guests right? That's my point. If it was a visa requirement it would apply to everybody.


If where they are staying is a legal residence (hotel, licenced B&B, licenced holiday let etc.) then the document isn't required as the details are handled by that establishment.

If, however, they are staying in a private residence, then there are 2 options - get a tourist licence or use the form and pay the fee (74€ plus 6€ per person ish)


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

snikpoh said:


> If where they are staying is a legal residence (hotel, licenced B&B, licenced holiday let etc.) then the document isn't required as the details are handled by that establishment.
> 
> If, however, they are staying in a private residence, then there are 2 options - get a tourist licence or use the form and pay the fee (74€ plus 6€ per person ish)


So in the case of my daughter, due on the 24th I have to get this?

Also if I get it here PRESUMABLY I have to send it to her to show?
How long does it take to get
Where do I get locally??
Does this include second home owners


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

Anyone got an answer????


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## Melosine (Apr 28, 2013)

Megsmum said:


> Anyone got an answer????


As there is zilch on UK.gov website i suspect that IF this is going to happen ( and as it a good money making scheme) !! it hasnt yet. So wouldn't worry.
Am sure when people are freer to travel without Covid restrictions, next year may be, it will make headline news.


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

I can't see anything to suggest that the order I posted a link to wouldn't apply to the UK post brexit. Obviously when the order was published the UK tourists weren't affected by it, but all other 3rd country tourists were. Whether border officials ever asked for evidence or not is another matter.

If there is anything which exempts UK tourists from this it would be in the W.A. I guess, but I'm not aware of anything (but haven't looked exhaustively).

The copy and paste fromn blondebob is interesting though as it suggests that it might be applied to UK nationals (implying in the future). So that in turn implies that something stopped it from applying as of 31st December automatically as I would have expected.

The safest option would be to complete the process of course.


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## Melosine (Apr 28, 2013)

Read article in Euro weekly.


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

Overandout said:


> I can't see anything to suggest that the order I posted a link to wouldn't apply to the UK post brexit. Obviously when the order was published the UK tourists weren't affected by it, but all other 3rd country tourists were. Whether border officials ever asked for evidence or not is another matter.
> 
> If there is anything which exempts UK tourists from this it would be in the W.A. I guess, but I'm not aware of anything (but haven't looked exhaustively).
> 
> ...


What I don't get isi have to pay€80 plus euros for a family visit. Do hotels etc pay to register guests.
Whilst I'm not bothered by the change I'm really pissed off at the lack of clarity and the lack of publicity. Is this just France and Spain...?


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

I've just spoken to a friend working within the tourist industry. She has been in touch with embassy regarding this it is not for UK citizens it is to stop 3 rd country people who need tourist visas not the U.K. our agreement was part of withdrawal agreement with the EU that it would only apply over 90 days. The requirements have always been there pre 1974 ...I'm told and the embassy will be putting out a statement in the next few days. This has been talked about today in most EU countries.

So fingers crossed looks like


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## Melosine (Apr 28, 2013)

NWhat I don't get isi have to pay€80 plus euros for a family visit. Do hotels etc pay to register guests.
Whilst I'm not bothered by the chanoge I'm really pissed off at the lack of clarity and the lack of publicity. Is this just France and Spain...?
[/QUOTE]
Shouldn't think so but they do pay business taxes and would hazard a guess that we who have had legal family visitors are now going to be paying for those who have been earning undeclared income for years via advertising airb/b and similar.
Even though Gov. did bring in a ruling re registration it like everything else it has been ignored. 
Now although there is a way to tie up all loose ends there are always fall guys. And guess we are it.
Am sure we are not alone in knowing people who have done this blatantly


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## fortrose52 (Nov 29, 2018)

It looks like the Carta de Invitacion is coming our way, possibly from next year. We are non-Schengen. There is a lot of paperwork and fees and preparation by the look of it. It is not on the Gov.uk website yet. It looks like the person resident or with a holiday home who is doing the 'inviting ' must get the Invitation letter from the police and send to the family member to produce on arrival, so that they know where you will be staying. This is for the Tourist visa with return date, which we will have to produce.


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

fortrose52 said:


> It looks like the Carta de Invitacion is coming our way, possibly from next year. We are non-Schengen. There is a lot of paperwork and fees and preparation by the look of it. It is not on the Gov.uk website yet. It looks like the person resident or with a holiday home who is doing the 'inviting ' must get the Invitation letter from the police and send to the family member to produce on arrival, so that they know where you will be staying. This is for the Tourist visa with return date, which we will have to produce.


Please see my post above 
British Embassy to release statement in next few days


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## fortrose52 (Nov 29, 2018)

Travelling in Italy in large towns and cities for years, On going to pay for my 'quoted' price for my accommodation, in last few years, have had to pay the tourist tax app E2 per person per day added ie about E30 per week for a couple.


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## fortrose52 (Nov 29, 2018)

Megsmum, if this is true about the Carta and not a rumour, you have to get an apt at police station in advance of the visit to get the form


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

Megsmum said:


> Please see my post above
> British Embassy to release statement in next few days


The British Embassy?

Bu the requirement comes from Spanish legislation (presumably ratified from EU Directives) so surely it is the Spanish (or EU) authorities who need to clarify its application or not?


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

Does this mean every visit a UK national takes to holiday home will need one?


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

Overandout said:


> The British Embassy?
> 
> Bu the requirement comes from Spanish legislation (presumably ratified from EU Directives) so surely it is the Spanish (or EU) authorities who need to clarify its application or not?


The British Embassy obviously acts on behalf of its citizens. They've been in contact, apparently, to clarify they're issuing a statement for the understanding of Thier citizen s, after all the average holiday msker is not going to read BOE bullitins from Spain, just as I'd expect the Spanish embassy in London to post any changes or queries for the Spanish living in the UK, This was apparently all agreed in the WA I've no idea about statements from EU countries hence I didn't mention them. I suppose they'll either change the criteria posted or not. It is what it is, if it's a case of you should but might then that's what it is, I'm simply posting what I've heard



kaipa said:


> Does this mean every visit a UK national takes to holiday home will need one?


Not sure... How can you invite yourself...!
I'm sure it'll come out in the wash somewhere


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## Barriej (Jul 23, 2012)

I found this about the permission letter. 





__





Carta de invitación


Ministerio del Interior, Espa�a



www.interior.gob.es





I will make no comment other than to say, if this is to happen. My family and friends can go stay in a hotel, I aint running off to the cop shop every month or so..


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## fortrose52 (Nov 29, 2018)

Also. My sister and I are going together from UK. So how am I supposed to get the dammed thing? I have an Irish passport, but my sister does not. Wonder if this will apply as I am the house owner. Hope we hear soon as time running out.


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

Megsmum said:


> The British Embassy obviously acts on behalf of its citizens. They've been in contact, apparently, to clarify they're issuing a statement for the understanding of Thier citizen s, after all the average holiday msker is not going to read BOE bullitins from Spain, just as I'd expect the Spanish embassy in London to post any changes or queries for the Spanish living in the UK, This was apparently all agreed in the WA I've no idea about statements from EU countries hence I didn't mention them. I suppose they'll either change the criteria posted or not. It is what it is, if it's a case of you should but might then that's what it is, I'm simply posting what I've heard


I'm not convinced, I can just picture the Brits shouting at the Spanish border official at the airport "but the UK Government says that your laws don't apply to me!"... 

But if it's a clarification about the W.A. I hope that the EU reciprocates and shares that, otherwise things could get messy!


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

Overandout said:


> I'm not convinced, I can just picture the Brits shouting at the Spanish border official at the airport "but the UK Government says that your laws don't apply to me!"...
> 
> But if it's a clarification about the W.A. I hope that the EU reciprocates and shares that, otherwise things could get messy!


I don't disagree . I can only report what was said. I think it'll come in but I can't see it happening at this time...


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## MataMata (Nov 30, 2008)

Can we please get one thing straight, this is *nothing* to do with the WA!


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

I wonder why it's necessary to be so agressive. I didn't say it was I said

*This was apparently all agreed in the WA. *

the key word apparently.
As also said in my previous post ... I suspect it'll come in , due to the nature of it, but clearly , it's caused confusion across the expat community, it's even being discussed on the French forum but without the superiority one often finds here.


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## blondebob (Aug 16, 2019)

This is the latest from a FB site.............Please delete if posting a FB site is not allowed





__





Log into Facebook


Log into Facebook to start sharing and connecting with your friends, family, and people you know.




www.facebook.com


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

Brexit: UK travellers to France and Spain may need proof of accommodation


People in France hosting non-EU nationals need to submit £26 form to their town hall as part of post-Brexit changes




www.theguardian.com





Well now it has been picked up by the media in uk


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

I like the way the say that "since Brexit anyone hosting non-EU nationals" has to do this, avoiding stating the fact that before Brexit anyone hosting non-EU nationals had to do it anyway and it is just the change in status of UK nationals that thas made this apply....


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## KVP (Apr 16, 2017)

I'm curious as, we live in Ireland, and my daughter and her family live in Canada (no EU citizenship) and several times they have flown to Spain to join us for a 2 week holiday. I book the accommodation and email her a copy which she prints in case immigration request and to fill out the declaration they must complete upon arrival. No questions are ever asked, she has never had to provide proof of accommodation. When we arrive at the accommodation, I always fill out any papers and they take a copy of my passport. At no stage do I give any info regarding the 3 Canadian's in the group. We are charged the "tourist tax", so I guess they inform the number of people in the group.

Do UK nationals now have to fill out this declaration when they land? If not, how do they know where you are meant to be staying? Is this a case of what they don't know won't hurt them? Not trying to bend any rules or suggest otherwise, maybe I'm not understanding the issue?


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## Barriej (Jul 23, 2012)

I have just recieved this in an email from .gov

*Regular entry requirements*

*At Spanish border control, you may need to use separate lanes from EU, EEA and Swiss citizens when queueing. Your passport may be stamped on entry and exit. You may also need to:
*

*show a return or onward ticket*
*show you have enough money for your stay*
*show proof of accommodation for your stay, for example, a hotel booking confirmation, proof of address if visiting your own property (e.g. second home), or an invitation from your host or proof of their address if staying with a third party, friends or family. The Spanish Government has clarified that the “carta de invitation” is one of the options available to prove that you have accommodation if staying with friends or family. More information is available from the Spanish Ministry of Interior.*
There are separate requirements for those who are resident in Spain. If you are resident in Spain, you should carry proof of residence as well as your valid passport when you travel. For further information see Requirements for UK nationals resident in Spain.

page here.








Entry requirements - Spain travel advice


Latest FCDO travel advice for Spain including on entry requirements, safety and security and local laws and customs.




www.gov.uk


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## MataMata (Nov 30, 2008)

MataMata said:


> Can we please get one thing straight, this is *nothing* to do with the WA!


Not directly aimed at you or anyone in particular just trying to keep to facts


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## fortrose52 (Nov 29, 2018)

I didn't see any aggression in your post. Don't worry about it


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