# Shooting Range



## TigerFox (Aug 16, 2013)

I am sure there are quite a few Texans in Mexico. Texans typically have guns and like to shoot (ok, not all Texans). I am aware of the laws in Mexico that prevents people from having weapons to defend themselves.

For those who enjoyed target shooting as a sport, my question is, what are those folks doing to fill the void?


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

TigerFox said:


> I am sure there are quite a few Texans in Mexico. Texans typically have guns and like to shoot (ok, not all Texans). I am aware of the laws in Mexico that prevents people from having weapons to defend themselves.
> 
> For those who enjoyed target shooting as a sport, my question is, what are those folks doing to fill the void?


Why do you think you'll need to defend yourself once you're living in Mexico? From whom or what? 

Maybe target-shooting aficionados have found other things to do to fill their idle hours.

P.S. I moved this thread to the main Mexico Forum, because it deals with life in Mexico. The Chatarrería is for off-topic threads.


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## diablita (May 7, 2010)

Typical gun toting American way of thinking. I had several firearms when I lived in the almighty USA but sold them all before I moved here. You should do the same.


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## GARYJ65 (Feb 9, 2013)

I don't know how many Texans live in Mexico, but anyway, if you are going to move here and if you are Texan, yes, there are legal ways to own guns
You will find it a heck of a lot more difficult than in the US; you will not be able to apply for a concealed gun permit, you will have to be a permanent resident in order to start thinking about gun ownership permits, there are very few shooting ranges here ( I mean it, very few) ammo is very expensive.
Contrary to what many people believes, gun ownership in Mexico is legal, you have to fill out lots of applications and maybe, just maybe, you get your permit
Once again, don't try comparing to the US, different Country, different laws
One more thing, in general, the average citizen here do not try to protect themselves with guns


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## kito1 (Aug 4, 2012)

I saw what appeared to be air rifles for sale last week at Wally World in Guadalajara. I have no idea of the requirements to purchase one. My nephew got one for his 7th birthday last year and we actually used it for target practice some. At 30-40' it was pretty damn accurate when pumped to full capacity. I shot both it and my 22 Remington and it was extremely close. If you have the land, you could certainly have fun playing with one of them.


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## ElPaso2012 (Dec 16, 2012)

Wow, it sure did not take long for the PC police to form a gang around the OP for just mentioning the word "gun". The OP did not even mention personally owning a gun, liking guns, or wanting to have a gun in Mexico.


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## ElPaso2012 (Dec 16, 2012)

And, by the way, Texas is by no means the state with the highest percentage of gun owners.


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## GARYJ65 (Feb 9, 2013)

kito1 said:


> I saw what appeared to be air rifles for sale last week at Wally World in Guadalajara. I have no idea of the requirements to purchase one. My nephew got one for his 7th birthday last year and we actually used it for target practice some. At 30-40' it was pretty damn accurate when pumped to full capacity. I shot both it and my 22 Remington and it was extremely close. If you have the land, you could certainly have fun playing with one of them.


Air guns, pellet or bb's do not require any special permit


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## GARYJ65 (Feb 9, 2013)

TigerFox said:


> I am sure there are quite a few Texans in Mexico. Texans typically have guns and like to shoot (ok, not all Texans). I am aware of the laws in Mexico that prevents people from having weapons to defend themselves.
> 
> For those who enjoyed target shooting as a sport, my question is, what are those folks doing to fill the void?


Mexican laws DO NOT prevent people from having weapons for defense; you may have them , registered, up to a certain caliber, up to a certain number, and not take them out of your home.
If you hunt, there are permits for you to move them to the hunting places.

Once again, different laws; you may not carry them in a gun rack on your pick up

Hunting is by no means as popular as it is in the US


Target shooting you can practice with air rifles, or in shooting ranges, but they are not very many here


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## ElPaso2012 (Dec 16, 2012)

GARYJ65 said:


> Air guns, pellet or bb's do not require any special permit


Gary, I have a question for you since I believe you have said you are a Mexican citizen. 
In your opinion, what percentage of Mexican people do you believe would like to have a 2nd Amendment, or something similar that would allow personal gun ownership. I'm just curious because in Juarez, where there has been so much violence, I'd say it would be about 50/50. One man, a journalist I know, told me once that he believed that if citizens had guns the cartels violence would be over in six weeks. A lot of the other people I know thought it would make things worse. Just wondering about your opinion as to how you think the country as a whole would vote on such a question.

As you've pointed out, it can be done in Mexico with a lot of paperwork. I'm talking about much less restrictive gun laws.


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## GARYJ65 (Feb 9, 2013)

ElPaso2012 said:


> Gary, I have a question for you since I believe you have said you are a Mexican citizen.
> In your opinion, what percentage of Mexican people do you believe would like to have a 2nd Amendment, or something similar that would allow personal gun ownership. I'm just curious because in Juarez, where there has been so much violence, I'd say it would be about 50/50. One man, a journalist I know, told me once that he believed that if citizens had guns the cartels violence would be over in six weeks. A lot of the other people I know thought it would make things worse. Just wondering about your opinion as to how you think the country as a whole would vote on such a question.
> 
> As you've pointed out, it can be done in Mexico with a lot of paperwork. I'm talking about much less restrictive gun laws.


Wow (Hijole) That's a tough one, we need a few beers in front of us to talk about that issue!
First of all, many Mexicans are legally armed, many many are illegally armed, not counting criminals. 
There are many firearms owned by regular citizens and not registered, and that is illegal.

I would agree with you, maybe 50/50 sometimes 40% in favor, 60% opposed 

I am positive about having many changes to firearm laws in Mexico, BUT, having laws like in the US, I am also positive that would raise hell here. We Mexicans LIKE guns, and we go crazy with them...

I think if gun laws would be similar to the US, in no time we'd be having the same if not more gun related problems, as in the US.

About using firearms against drug dealers and finishing the job in a few weeks, I don't think so, if that was the case, the US would have cleaned the Country a long time ago.


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## ElPaso2012 (Dec 16, 2012)

GARYJ65 said:


> Wow (Hijole) That's a tough one, we need a few beers in front of us to talk about that issue!
> First of all, many Mexicans are legally armed, many many are illegally armed, not counting criminals.
> There are many firearms owned by regular citizens and not registered, and that is illegal.
> 
> ...


That sounds about like what I encountered in a small circle of friends, 50/50, or maybe 60/40. It's a question I like to ask intelligent people when I have the chance. My new cab driver friend in Durango's response bears out something else you said. He said the law didn't matter. People who wanted a gun in their homes had them, legal or not. He wasn't speaking personally, and I didn't ask.


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## GARYJ65 (Feb 9, 2013)

ElPaso2012 said:


> That sounds about like what I encountered in a small circle of friends, 50/50, or maybe 60/40. It's a question I like to ask intelligent people when I have the chance. My new cab driver friend in Durango's response bears out something else you said. He said the law didn't matter. People who wanted a gun in their homes had them, legal or not. He wasn't speaking personally, and I didn't ask.


Most probably he owns one or two!

It really is like that in Mexico; if you want one, you get it, period.
Down side to this is, if you get caught, you are fried, because Mexican laws are very hard on those subjects


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## sparks (Jun 17, 2007)

Lots of gun clubs and ranges in Mexico

El Club Cinegético Tecomán, A.C. Tiene el honor de invitar a usted y a su apreciable familia a la Competencia de Tiro “Carlos Sevilla Valdovinos” en la modalidad de Siluetas Metalicas, Skeet y Trap.

MÉXICO ARMADO - En pro de la cacería responsable, el tiro deportivo y la cultura de las armas - Novedades de la Comunidad


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## GARYJ65 (Feb 9, 2013)

I stick to my story
Not LOTS of shooting ranges, compared to the US


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## conorkilleen (Apr 28, 2010)

GARYJ65 said:


> Air guns, pellet or bb's do not require any special permit


This is true. Since I have been here I have built a cache of air-guns. The larger rifles I have are about as close to a 22 that you can get without actually using gun powder. They are pretty close to the competition style air rifles used in the Olympics and other semi-pro airgun clubs. The other ones I have are of the CO2 type (little and large bottles) that are multi shot with clips. Pretty damn fun to shoot if I do say so myself.

I shoot targets and whatnot. Cans, plastic bottles, etc. For home protection we dont have a gun here in Mexico...USA, si. Here in Mexico if you shoot someone, with a real gun, breaking into your house then you WILL go to jail. No question about it and no matter whose fault. Also the victims family will most likely come after you and do worse. Not a chance I would like to take.


PS- Just don't go walking around in your front yard with them....cops will come in a jiffy probably with their REAL guns drawn.

PS-2- Don't shoot your eye out.


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## TigerFox (Aug 16, 2013)

ElPaso2012 said:


> Wow, it sure did not take long for the PC police to form a gang around the OP for just mentioning the word "gun". The OP did not even mention personally owning a gun, liking guns, or wanting to have a gun in Mexico.


El Paso,

Thank you for your comment. I was not surprised that some people had to jump in and questions and criticize my question about gun ownership and target practice. They just can't seem to resist. So, for those that actually did answer my actual question, I thank you.

The ability to defend ones self is a God given right, not a government gifted right. I think this no matter the geography. Governments take away rights that God has given and criminals are quite pleased about that as it makes it easy for them to do their dirty work. Insofar as "typical American" thinking, I would refrain from making snap judgments about someone about whom absolutely nothing is known.

Without guns, the US would never have come into existence. We would still be under thumb of the English monarchy. This is the purpose of the Second Amendment, to protect against a tyrannical government as governments, without fail, throughout history will abuse their power, and take away all methods of resistance.


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## TigerFox (Aug 16, 2013)

ElPaso2012 said:


> And, by the way, Texas is by no means the state with the highest percentage of gun owners.


Thank you for that information. Good to know.


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## TigerFox (Aug 16, 2013)

GARYJ65 said:


> Mexican laws DO NOT prevent people from having weapons for defense; you may have them , registered, up to a certain caliber, up to a certain number, and not take them out of your home.
> If you hunt, there are permits for you to move them to the hunting places.
> 
> Once again, different laws; you may not carry them in a gun rack on your pick up
> ...


As I understand it, it is a bureaucratic nightmare having to justify you desire to have a gun. Thank you as well for taking the time to actually address my question instead of criticizing.


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## buzzbar (Feb 9, 2013)

Hmm, not sure I understand this. You make a statement about Texans having guns and people “having weapons to defend themselves”, then ask a question. Some people choose to comment on your statement and give their personal views on firearms. 

You return a few days later, have a dig at those who made comments rather than answering your question, and then proceed to give us your own thoughts on people defending themselves with weapons (along with a self serving, and in my opinion rather silly, account of USA history.)

Tigerfox, if you throw a controversial subject out there on a public discussion board, you are going to generate discussion, even if you tack a question on the end. That’s the way discussion boards work.


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## ElPaso2012 (Dec 16, 2012)

buzzbar said:


> Hmm, not sure I understand this. You make a statement about Texans having guns and people “having weapons to defend themselves”, then ask a question. Some people choose to comment on your statement and give their personal views on firearms.
> 
> You return a few days later, have a dig at those who made comments rather than answering your question, and then proceed to give us your own thoughts on people defending themselves with weapons (along with a self serving, and in my opinion rather silly, account of USA history.)
> 
> Tigerfox, if you throw a controversial subject out there on a public discussion board, you are going to generate discussion, even if you tack a question on the end. That’s the way discussion boards work.


Where in anything the OP said do you find that he is questioning your right to express an opinion? I believe he has a right to express his opinion of your opinion, too. As you said, that's the way things work on a discussion forum.


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## buzzbar (Feb 9, 2013)

ElPaso2012 said:


> Where in anything the OP said do you find that he is questioning your right to express an opinion? I believe he has a right to express his opinion of your opinion, too. As you said, that's the way things work on a discussion forum.


Please read my post again. I didn’t say the OP had questioned the right of anyone to have an opinion. I said that he had had a dig at those who - understandably and as he should have expected - chose to address his statements, rather than answer his question. 



TigerFox said:


> I was not surprised that some people had to jump in and questions and criticize my question about gun ownership and target practice. They just can't seem to resist.


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## ElPaso2012 (Dec 16, 2012)

buzzbar said:


> Please read my post again. I didn’t say the OP had questioned the right of anyone to have an opinion. I said that he had had a dig at those who - understandably and as he should have expected - chose to address his statements, rather than answer his question.


He has a right to "have a dig" right back at ya' then...

And frankly I doubt very much he was surprised at the comments.


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## buzzbar (Feb 9, 2013)

ElPaso2012 said:


> He has a right to "have a dig" right back at ya' then...
> 
> And frankly I doubt very much he was surprised at the comments.


I still don't think you got my point, but as an ignorant Aussie, who finds the whole USA gun thing completely incomprehensible, let's move this to a quiet conversation between ourselves over a Pacifico or two ElPaso2012, lest we stir up a full scale discussion on weaponry!!

eep:


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## ElPaso2012 (Dec 16, 2012)

buzzbar said:


> I still don't think you got my point, but as an ignorant Aussie, who finds the whole USA gun thing completely incomprehensible, let's move this to a quiet conversation between ourselves over a Pacifico or two ElPaso2012, lest we stir up a full scale discussion on weaponry!!
> 
> eep:


Peace...


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

buzzbar said:


> I still don't think you got my point, but as an ignorant Aussie, who finds the whole USA gun thing completely incomprehensible, let's move this to a quiet conversation between ourselves over a Pacifico or two ElPaso2012, lest we stir up a full scale discussion on weaponry!!
> 
> eep:


I'm from the US and I don't understand the gun thing either.


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## ElPaso2012 (Dec 16, 2012)

Isla Verde said:


> I'm from the US and I don't understand the gun thing either.


Well, since the forum moderator can't resist enlarging this highly off mission subject that probably belonged in the Chateria anyway, let me see if I can help.

Number one, you don't have to understand. It's in the Second Amendment of the US Constitution. You're certainly free to try and change that inconvenient truth, but good luck with that. 

That's the way most American gun owners feel about it. 

Come to think about it, there is a not a number two.


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

ElPaso2012 said:


> Well, since the forum moderator can't resist enlarging this highly off mission subject that probably belonged in the Chateria anyway, let me see if I can help.
> 
> Number one, you don't have to understand. It's in the Second Amendment of the US Constitution. You're certainly free to try and change that inconvenient truth, but good luck with that.
> 
> ...


I know all about the Second Amendment. What I don't understand is the attraction that guns have for some people and why they feel so passionate about them. It must be a cultural thing  .


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## ElPaso2012 (Dec 16, 2012)

Isla Verde said:


> I know all about the Second Amendment. What I don't understand is the attraction that guns have for some people and why they feel so passionate about them. It must be a cultural thing  .


I guess it must be...


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## GARYJ65 (Feb 9, 2013)

TigerFox said:


> As I understand it, it is a bureaucratic nightmare having to justify you desire to have a gun. Thank you as well for taking the time to actually address my question instead of criticizing.


You are very welcome

And no, it is not a nightmare since you don't have to justify anything, you just have to be Mexican and buy your firearms legally and register them. What is a nightmare is try to justify your need for a concealed weapon permit!


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## ElPaso2012 (Dec 16, 2012)

GARYJ65 said:


> You are very welcome
> 
> And no, it is not a nightmare since you don't have to justify anything, you just have to be Mexican and buy your firearms legally and register them. What is a nightmare is try to justify your need for a concealed weapon permit!


Does buying legally and registering them also apply to those with permanent residency visas? And I suppose this means for having a firearm *only* in your house, correct?


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## GARYJ65 (Feb 9, 2013)

ElPaso2012 said:


> Does buying legally and registering them also apply to those with permanent residency visas? And I suppose this means for having a firearm *only* in your house, correct?


Yes, you can only keep it at home, for defensive purposes

As for permanent residency visas, I don't know, let me find out


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## GARYJ65 (Feb 9, 2013)

ElPaso2012 said:


> Does buying legally and registering them also apply to those with permanent residency visas? And I suppose this means for having a firearm *only* in your house, correct?


Here it is
Artí**** 27.- A los extranjeros sólo se les podrá autorizar la portación de armas cuando, además de satisfacer los requisitos señalados en el artí**** anterior, acrediten su calidad de inmigrados, salvo el caso del permiso de licencia temporal para turistas con fines deportivos.


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## ElPaso2012 (Dec 16, 2012)

GARYJ65 said:


> Here it is
> Artí**** 27.- A los extranjeros sólo se les podrá autorizar la portación de armas cuando, además de satisfacer los requisitos señalados en el artí**** anterior, acrediten su calidad de inmigrados, salvo el caso del permiso de licencia temporal para turistas con fines deportivos.


Sounds like no permits for tourists but possible for those who satisfy the other requirements stated herein and are accredited immigrants?


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## GARYJ65 (Feb 9, 2013)

ElPaso2012 said:


> Sounds like no permits for tourists but possible for those who satisfy the other requirements stated herein and are accredited immigrants?


Tourists with sports or hunting purposes may apply for a permit


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## ElPaso2012 (Dec 16, 2012)

GARYJ65 said:


> Tourists with sports or hunting purposes may apply for a permit


Well, now you can see how well I do with espanol --- meaning I get about 50% right and 50% totally wrong. Or was it 100% in this case?


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## diablita (May 7, 2010)

Isla Verde said:


> I'm from the US and I don't understand the gun thing either.


I'm originally from Pennsylvania. My family has always had guns at home but only for hunting. As I grew up I had several guns as well but I don't really know why. I didn't hunt much, lived in a quiet neighborhood, and never had a need to use one. When I moved here I sold them all and still have never had the desire or need to use one even though I live in the one of the most so called violent cities in the world. If you are so in fear of your life here that you think you need a gun to protect yourself, why did you come here. Get over it, please.


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## ElPaso2012 (Dec 16, 2012)

diablita said:


> I'm originally from Pennsylvania. My family has always had guns at home but only for hunting. As I grew up I had several guns as well but I don't really know why. I didn't hunt much, lived in a quiet neighborhood, and never had a need to use one. When I moved here I sold them all and still have never had the desire or need to use one even though I live in the one of the most so called violent cities in the world. If you are so in fear of your life here that you think you need a gun to protect yourself, why did you come here. Get over it, please.


I don't think Isla wants a gun, diablita.


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

ElPaso2012 said:


> I don't think Isla wants a gun, diablita.


You've got that right, ElPaso!


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## ElPaso2012 (Dec 16, 2012)

Isla Verde said:


> You've got that right, ElPaso!


I was pretty sure I had.

I think she was talking to me, but surprise, that's not why I took the position I did earlier. That's an assumption on her part if I'm correct about who she was directing the post to. 

Having one in Mexico, in my book, is just going against the grain a bridge too far and would probably only lead to problems.


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## TigerFox (Aug 16, 2013)

Isla Verde said:


> Why do you think you'll need to defend yourself once you're living in Mexico? From whom or what?
> 
> Maybe target-shooting aficionados have found other things to do to fill their idle hours.
> 
> P.S. I moved this thread to the main Mexico Forum, because it deals with life in Mexico. The Chatarrería is for off-topic threads.


From whom would I need to defend myself? Interesting question as I didn't realize Mexico was crime free. 

About the target-shooting aficionados. Yes, that was exactly my question. What have they found as a substitute? It is a sport, after all.


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## TigerFox (Aug 16, 2013)

ElPaso2012 said:


> Gary, I have a question for you since I believe you have said you are a Mexican citizen.
> In your opinion, what percentage of Mexican people do you believe would like to have a 2nd Amendment, or something similar that would allow personal gun ownership. I'm just curious because in Juarez, where there has been so much violence, I'd say it would be about 50/50. One man, a journalist I know, told me once that he believed that if citizens had guns the cartels violence would be over in six weeks. A lot of the other people I know thought it would make things worse. Just wondering about your opinion as to how you think the country as a whole would vote on such a question.
> 
> As you've pointed out, it can be done in Mexico with a lot of paperwork. I'm talking about much less restrictive gun laws.


El Paso,
I know this question was not directed at me, but when I read your note what came to mind was that I bet those number are a lot different in the small towns that have experienced a lot of killings. When the criminals came in and gunned people down, I would bet they were wishing they had guns to defend themselves.

In fact, I wish I could really remember this in more detail so you could verify what I say here, but there is a town in Mexico where the citizens have taken up arms, cleaned up the the crime and have formed their own citizen protection group ,with weapons. I read that it has worked quite well and that the military is not welcome there and they stay away.


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## ElPaso2012 (Dec 16, 2012)

TigerFox said:


> El Paso,
> I know this question was not directed at me, but when I read your note what came to mind was that I bet those number are a lot different in the small towns that have experienced a lot of killings. When the criminals came in and gunned people down, I would bet they were wishing they had guns to defend themselves.
> 
> In fact, I wish I could really remember this in more detail so you could verify what I say here, but there is a town in Mexico where the citizens have taken up arms, cleaned up the the crime and have formed their own citizen protection group ,with weapons. I read that it has worked quite well and that the military is not welcome there and they stay away.


I believe this may be the story you are talking about.


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## diablita (May 7, 2010)

ElPaso2012 said:


> I don't think Isla wants a gun, diablita.


Sorry, I was trying to reinforce her position about not understanding the whole gun thing. One of you moderators can just delete my posts.


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

diablita said:


> Sorry, I was trying to reinforce her position about not understanding the whole gun thing. One of you moderators can just delete my posts.


I didn't really think your comments were directed at me, diablita. If it's ok with you, I'd like to keep your comments on this thread because they offer a unique point of view.


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

I do not get the gun thing either and frankly it is pretty obnoxious. 
Many people have guns in Mexico, I can hear them in my neighborhodd so I know there are plenty of them but people are not talking about it . People here do not have an obsession about guns, they have them and are quiet about it and that is wonderful.


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## ElPaso2012 (Dec 16, 2012)

citlali said:


> I do not get the gun thing either and frankly it is pretty obnoxious.
> Many people have guns in Mexico, I can hear them in my neighborhodd so I know there are plenty of them but people are not talking about it . People here do not have an obsession about guns, they have them and are quiet about it and that is wonderful.


Sorry that anyone who defends the 2nd Amendment in the US is considered "obnoxious" just for replying in kind to the snide comments of anti-gun crowd. I deeply apologize for jarring your political correct-o-meters... 

I guess you'll just have to get over that...

Do you please remember that although some of us will respect the law in Mexico in every respect regarding firearms that we don't and never will agree with anything you say about guns, and that we have a right to our opinions just as you do. 

I don't have any more to say to any of you on the subject.


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## GARYJ65 (Feb 9, 2013)

It is very clear that some people are pro firearms and some not.
Not big deal
Everyone has their own reasons that should be respected
It's almost like talking about religion
To me, guns, as well as everything in this world, are useful
What I don't understand is why some people warship firearms, I just like them as tools they might be
I don't get so far as to claim God gave me the right to own them, I am positive it has nothing to do with my God
If that was the case, it would have been very easy for God to get rid of criminals and help us out that way


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

I fear this thread is about to descend into useless bickering, so I have decided to close it.


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