# Supporting documents for citizenship



## Hertsfem (Jun 19, 2013)

We are almost ready to submit an application for my grandsons citizenship and I would like to know what supporting documents would be acceptable.

We shall be applying under section 3(2) as my son is British by descent but have lived in the uk for more than 3 years prior to his sons birth.

The childs birth certificate
His parents marriage certificate
My birth certificate and marriage certificate (paternal grandmother)
My sons passport and birth certificate (stating names of his parents)
A letter from the company he worked for in UK with the dates he worked there
A letter from the ex landlord to say he lived at his old address

We cannot seem to find my sons old passport

Will these documents suffice or have I left anything out?

Many thanks


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Read the detailed guidance in http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/s...nstructions/nichapter10/chapter10?view=Binary Page 5ff
I also suggest you apply though Nationality Checking Service offered by some local authorities.


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## Hertsfem (Jun 19, 2013)

Thankyou Joppa but that seems to confirm his entitlement rather than what the supporting documents are required. 

I have just purchased "full" birth certificates for myself and my father so I imagine this would give us more than enough evidence! Can you confirm this please?

Many thanks


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

10.7.2 Applications under s.3(2) should be supported by evidence as follows:
a. the child's birth certificate showing parents’ details; and
b. the relevant birth, marriage, death, adoption, registration, naturalisation certificates to establish that a parent (the “parent in question”) was a British citizen by descent (see Chapter 20) at the time of the person's birth; and
c. the relevant birth, marriage, death, adoption, registration, naturalisation certificates to establish that a parent of the parent in question was:
i. a British citizen otherwise than by descent (see Chapter 20) at the time of the latter's birth; or
ii. became, or would but for their death have become, such a citizen on 1 January 1983; and
d. if the parent in question is the father, evidence that he meets the definition of “Father” at Chapter 6
e. if the child was not born stateless, passports and/or other documents to establish that the parent in question:
i. lived in the United Kingdom (or the qualifying territories, if appropriate) for 3 years prior to the minor's birth; and
ii. was not absent from the United Kingdom (or the qualifying territories, if appropriate) for more than 270 days in that 3 year period; or
f. if the child was born stateless:
I. a letter from the authorities of the country of the child's birth
confirming that the child did not acquire that country's citizenship or nationality at birth; and,
ii. if the other parent is neither a British citizen nor a national of the country of the child's birth, a letter from the authorities of the country of which the other parent is a citizen confirming that the minor did not acquire that country's citizenship or nationality at birth.
NB. to the caseworker should also determine whether or not the child has any claim to any form of British nationality.


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## Hertsfem (Jun 19, 2013)

Now my head is really spinning :-(


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## Hertsfem (Jun 19, 2013)

i do not understand why they would require a letter from the authorities of the country of the child's birth
confirming that the child did not acquire that country's citizenship or nationality at birth as he could surely have dual citizenship even though he does not...


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## Newyorkaise (Nov 30, 2010)

As I read subsection f(i) and (ii), I believe that a letter from the authorities is only needed if the child is born stateless - clearly not the case for your grandson.

As your grandson was not born stateless, you will need to provide the documents set forth in subsection e(i) and (ii).

When "legalese" is written this way, without indentation for subparts of subsections, you have to keep very careful track of the lettering/numbering. Personally, it drives me crazy, and I deal with it nearly daily.


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## Hertsfem (Jun 19, 2013)

Thankyou NYA that is why I was asking if a letter from my sons previous employers would suffice. I'm not sure how he provided evidence that he did not leave the country for that period of time ( did not leave for more than 2 weeks during that period) other than an expired passport?


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## Hertsfem (Jun 19, 2013)

Does anyone know how to prove that one did not leave the country for more than 270 days within a three year period please?

Also regarding the supporting documents proving that my son lived in UK for more than three years he has been sent a screenshot from the company that he worked for which shows their records on him. This includes his name, the dates which he was in their employment, his job title. Will this be enough or do they need an original document?


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## Hertsfem (Jun 19, 2013)

Can anyone answer these questions please?


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Hertsfem said:


> Does anyone know how to prove that one did not leave the country for more than 270 days within a three year period please?


This is for the applicant = your grandchild, right? Passport stamps usually plus boarding pass, other travel tickets etc.



> Also regarding the supporting documents proving that my son lived in UK for more than three years he has been sent a screenshot from the company that he worked for which shows their records on him. This includes his name, the dates which he was in their employment, his job title. Will this be enough or do they need an original document?


This could be like rental contract, pay slips, mortgage statement, council tax statement etc, so circumstantial evidence will suffice. He should get a letter confirming his employment from his former boss instead of a screenshot.


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## Hertsfem (Jun 19, 2013)

Thankyou Joppa, yes it's for my grandsons citizenship. My son has a biometric passport and has mislaid his old one. He only ever left the UK twice for less than a week at a time so has never kept any boarding passes. Surely the fact he was in employment with the same company for almost 4 years shows that he could not have possibly left for any great length of time? He has asked for a copy of his leave record.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

That will be useful. Or just a letter confirming he didn't take leave (holidays) longer than permitted under his holiday allowance of 4 weeks or 6 weeks per year or whatever, i.e. no further paid or unpaid leave.


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## Hertsfem (Jun 19, 2013)

Phew! thankyou, you have just made my day lol


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## Hertsfem (Jun 19, 2013)

Hi Joppa, we have got the letter from my sons old company stating the dates he was employed there, however they say the leave records are no longer available as this dates back 2006 - 2009 they also say they cannot give a copy of his P60 because of technical difficulties. We have applied for a statement of his council tax payments for that period but how are we going to prove he did not leave the country for 270 days?


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## Hertsfem (Jun 19, 2013)

Can anyone help me with this please?


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Flight e-tickets, boarding pass, hotel receipts?


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## Hertsfem (Jun 19, 2013)

Joppa we are trying to prove that he did NOT leave the country not that he DID which is much more difficult. We are talking about 5 years ago here and I doubt anyone keeps boarding passes and the like, especially when leaving the UK to live in another country...


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

I know. 
Just find whatever circumstantial evidence you can unearth. If you have taken a holiday abroad, you have evidence of bookings and flight reservations. Pay slips and bank statement showing your salary remained constant.


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## Hertsfem (Jun 19, 2013)

I will ask him to see if he can go back and check on his flights, however I think he only went to Prague twice during the 4 year period for no more than a week at a time and stayed with a friend. Would a letter from the friend be ok saying he stayed with him over that period of time?

This is really a difficult one :-( Will the UKBA not check to see if he did in fact leave the country via their own information?


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

There is advance passenger information, but the record isn't complete (e.g. doesn't cover people leaving by ferries).
Just do the best and provided you are honest in your endeavour, it will be fine.


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## Hertsfem (Jun 19, 2013)

Thanks Joppa I will get some dates from him and do a bit of googling see how we get on.

He lived in the uk for about 5 years previous and in one job with house for almost 4 of those years. He then left in 2009 and went back to Zimbabwe so being a youngster you don't think of keeping (what you would think is pointless information at the time) I hope we can crack this as we realize Olivers citizenship hinges on this information...


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## Hertsfem (Jun 19, 2013)

Joppa I have looked at the UKBA advanced information page here UK Border Agency | Requests for personal data

And it appears that for £10 we can get all of my sons travel history am I correct?
This will take up to 40 days.

My question is this - is it worth us doing this and waiting up to another 40 days to submit the application as surely this is the information they themselves will be using when doing the background checks, or will we by doing this in fact simplyfy their job and the application "could" get processed a lot quicker? My grandson will have to wait for his mothers spouse visa sometime next April before he travels anyhow. Just a thought...


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

I don't think they have your British son's travel history as such.


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## Hertsfem (Jun 19, 2013)

I just thought they were clever enough to check up on when he went in and out of the country lol

Sounds like we should go for it then?


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## Hertsfem (Jun 19, 2013)

When affixing the photo to the application form it states "see notes on page 25 of guide" however there is nothing there about how to attach the photo??

Should we staple it?
Use double sided tape?
Glue?

Please help!


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## Hertsfem (Jun 19, 2013)

Joppa please?


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## Hertsfem (Jun 19, 2013)

Please can anyone answer this question for me?


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

What you can do is to put the photos in a small see-through envelope and attach to the form with a paperclip. Never staple or glue anything to the form.


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## Hertsfem (Jun 19, 2013)

Thanks Joppa - good idea


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## Hertsfem (Jun 19, 2013)

Phew finishing touches to form MN1 3(2) for my grandson
I read somewhere that you just put a line through everything which does not apply but cannot find it now, can you confirm this please?

Documents included..
Childs full birth certificate (original and a copy)
Mothers and fathers full birth certificates (originals and copies)
Paternal grandmothers full birth certificate (original and a copy)
Parents marriage certificate (original and a copy)
Fathers passport (original and a copy)
Photo of child
Fee of £673

Letter from previous company stating the periods my son worked there covering almost 4 years
Data certificate from UKBA stating dates outside the country for that period (when it arrives)
Copies of council tax statement covering the same period.

Have I missed anything?


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## Hertsfem (Jun 19, 2013)

Sorry I also have grandparents marriage certificate
Great grandfathers birth certificate

They are asking for proof of residence! what do you suggest??


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

As he is so young, I suppose things like residence permit, health service enrolment, nursery enrolment etc.


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## Hertsfem (Jun 19, 2013)

Oh I thought they were meaning my son Joppa?

Child born abroad to British citizen parents
•Child’s birth certificate showing the parents’ names
• Parents’ marriage certificate (if the father is a British citizen)
• British parent’s birth certificate or passport
• British grandparent’s birth certificate, registration or naturalisation certificate or 
passport
• Grandparents’ marriage certificate
• Evidence of residence

P.S. did you see the first questions above the post you replied to?


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Have to go back to MN1 form and re-examine requirements. Wait till tonight.


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## Hertsfem (Jun 19, 2013)

Ok thanks x


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## Hertsfem (Jun 19, 2013)

Any luck Joppa?


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Haven't had time. Answering other queries which takes less time.


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## Hertsfem (Jun 19, 2013)

I think I shall include something for both my son and grandson Joppa, then when my son takes the application to the document checking service they can decide what they want to keep...

Thanks anyhow


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

That would be one way, though don't expect the council staff at NCS to be fully conversant with Section 3(2) applications (they mainly deal with naturalisation).


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## Hertsfem (Jun 19, 2013)

Joppa said:


> That would be one way, though don't expect the council staff at NCS to be fully conversant with Section 3(2) applications (they mainly deal with naturalisation).



Ok thanks Joppa, perhaps UKBA can decide what they want when it gets there then? I have included a copy of my sons work contract and a copy of my grandsons clinic card with all of his inoculations recorded thereon...


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## Hertsfem (Jun 19, 2013)

Ok so we have just got back the "request for information" from UKBA which we asked for the dates which my son had been out of the country during that 3 year period.

It gives a random date of 01/01/2008 and 15/10/2013 that is ALL

So we are not no further forward in proving that he did not leave the country for more than 270 days during that 3 year period.

This is extreemly frustrating.

We have the letter from his previous company stating that he was in full time employment for almost 4 years and the council tax statements for that period. It looks like this is the best we are going to be able to do.

What do you say Joppa?


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## Hertsfem (Jun 19, 2013)

Hello


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## Hertsfem (Jun 19, 2013)

.......


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

It can only be circumstantial as there are no stamps in passport etc for British national. The fact that he has been in continual employment should be sufficient, esp if employer can state in writing his holiday allowance and no unpaid leave was taken?


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## Hertsfem (Jun 19, 2013)

Thankyou Joppa, however the employer is not able to do that as they do not hold the records any more. Lets just hold thumbs as we have certainly tried our best....


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

We have discussed this before. So just try your best!


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