# Tonight 7pm - How Spain became a Casualty of the crisis...



## brocher (Mar 21, 2011)

For anyone interested, with access to BBC 2, tonight (Sun) 7pm - an investigation of how Spain became a casualty of the crisis.


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## Leper (May 12, 2010)

No need to spend an hour dissecting everything that was said on television. The cause of Spain's demise is the same as Ireland's i.e. Greed, greed and more greed.

The banks lent money they never had, clients got in head over heels and could not repay the loans and Hey Presto - the banks went belly-up. And guess what, the taxpayer will have to fund the banks. In short the people whom the banks screwed have to pay up to get screwed again.

Add in the corrupt politicians (are any of them honest?) who allowed the banks to behave the way they did. More greed, of course. Worse agin no politician or banker involved will ever see the inside of a prison.

Spain could of course go down the road that Iceland went and not pay the banks . . . but Spain will pay . . . you see the main banks are in Germany and Angela Merkel wants "her own" paid.


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## neddie (Jun 11, 2012)

Leper said:


> No need to spend an hour dissecting everything that was said on television. The cause of Spain's demise is the same as Ireland's i.e. Greed, greed and more greed.
> 
> The banks lent money they never had, clients got in head over heels and could not repay the loans and Hey Presto - the banks went belly-up. And guess what, the taxpayer will have to fund the banks. In short the people whom the banks screwed have to pay up to get screwed again.
> 
> ...



.....you make it sound like the borrowers had virtually nothing to do with the problem.....!!!!


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## dunmovin (Dec 19, 2008)

Leper said:


> No need to spend an hour dissecting everything that was said on television. The cause of Spain's demise is the same as Ireland's i.e. Greed, greed and more greed.
> 
> The banks lent money they never had, clients got in head over heels and could not repay the loans and Hey Presto - the banks went belly-up. And guess what, the taxpayer will have to fund the banks. In short the people whom the banks screwed have to pay up to get screwed again.
> 
> ...



Actually the bigger question is "Where did all the money go? Who has it?"

Ahhh let the banks go under....and let's not give a rat's arse about all the people with savings in those banks, who's businesses depend on those banks, all the people who work those businesses....more people without savings,more unemployed, more assets siezed(but are worthless, as no one wants or can afford them, but wtf...it looks good on the asset and liabilty books).

There is no easy answer to this, but perhaps a good start would be to pursue the people who made millions from this and get their "golden handshakes"(read that as "here's a huge payout and hiss of quietly, you snake and we'll try to cover your ass and our's) back. Find the leeches and "creative accounts" who knowingly made a fortune from the crisis and get their cash off them and put it back where it came from.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

I only saw the end of the programme and it sounded very negative!!

As for where money goes and who has it - well money isnt real - its only a promise. It can inflate or deflate as "promises" are broken. The whole concept has to be taken away from facts and figures and seen for what it is and then you can start to see what an almost surreal commodity money really is

Jo xxx


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

If you didnt see it

Jo xxx


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

So much of it totally misses the point that much of the present crisis is down to:

The US banks with their negative equity mortgages that triggered the worldwide crash
The screwing of the banking system in Spain by certain people (supporters of the present government) who also took big bonuses
The plight of the poor in the 40s emphasised in the film was down to the Latifunda system (which the current government would like to see return) in which the rich take 99% while the poor are often not allowed even 1%

Given that Rajoy and his mob are allowing the Electricity companies to up their charges to a struggling set of consumers (who had been protected by Zapatero's Government), introducing prescription charges which disproportionately affect the poorer while allowing the rich PP to get away with lots of perks, it all sounds like Camoron, Clogg et al in the UK.

In both cases (UK and Spain) it is all blamed on the previous adminsitration.


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## Goldeneye (Nov 12, 2011)

This may seem simplistic but I really think they are a very worthwhile watch.. If you want to *really* understand about the banking system, money, credit DEBT then PLEASE take the time to watch Money as Debt!! 







We are all fed a bunch of lies from TPTB The powers that be.. We are avid readers of alternative non mainstream media fed BS, so when Pulson The U.S. secretary of the treasury at the time stood up and said 'The worst of the credit crisis is behind us I remember my hubby and I looking aghast and saying to each other.. If we know the worst is yet to come The Secretary of the Treasury of the USA MUST know!!
less than 2 weeks later Lehman Brothers collapsed 


Quotation of President Woodrow Wilson: After his passing of the Federal reserve act

I am a most unhappy man. I have unwittingly ruined my country. A great industrial nation is now controlled by its system of credit. We are no longer a government by free opinion, no longer a government by conviction and the vote of the majority, but a government by the opinion and duress of a small group of dominant men.
aka_ ( The bankster at the Fed)_

..
.


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## thrax (Nov 13, 2008)

baldilocks said:


> So much of it totally misses the point that much of the present crisis is down to:
> 
> The US banks with their negative equity mortgages that triggered the worldwide crash
> The screwing of the banking system in Spain by certain people (supporters of the present government) who also took big bonuses
> ...


I recall a pretty good joke about the UK. Sorry if it offends so don't read it if it does. The UK has gone to [email protected]@ocks hasn't it. We used to be an Empire run by an Emperor, then we were a Kingdom run by a king. Now we are a country......


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

thrax said:


> I recall a pretty good joke about the UK. Sorry if it offends so don't read it if it does. The UK has gone to [email protected]@ocks hasn't it. We used to be an Empire run by an Emperor, then we were a Kingdom run by a king. Now we are a country......


The UK is now in a *moron*ic state and run by Ca*moron* and is an a*crony*m for *U*nripe *K*aki run by *cronies* of the said Ca*moron* and his *crony* Clogg 

p.s. I liked that one, thrax


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## Navas (Sep 2, 2012)

baldilocks said:


> So much of it totally misses the point that much of the present crisis is down to:
> 
> The US banks with their negative equity mortgages that triggered the worldwide crash
> The screwing of the banking system in Spain by certain people (supporters of the present government) who also took big bonuses
> ...


I'd just like to add that the poverty in Spain didn't magically end at the start of the 1950s! I've only just started watching the documentary and there is a short piece of footage of a woman scrubbing clothes on the bank of a river. In the early 60s, one of my aunts lived in a small village called Vozmediano (on the way up Moncayo in Soria) and I recall seeing her do exactly this, as well as the washing up. She used grit as a scourer for her pans. There was no running water (apart from the stream!) in the village and a big culture shock to me, as an 8 year old from London, having to use the hillside as a toilet. 

I have seen Spain change dramatically since the death of Franco. I just hope that the current crisis doesn't send the Spanish people back to those dark days.

It strikes me that it's never the rich who suffer at times like this. They are still spending vast sums on sickeningly luxurious lifestyles.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Navas said:


> It strikes me that it's never the rich who suffer at times like this. They are still spending vast sums on sickeningly luxurious lifestyles.


 However, the rich and their luxurious lifestyles does bring wealth with it - gardeners, cleaners, builders, decorators, chauffeurs, eating out....................

Wealth from the top, trickles down and it should also create aspiration and ambition, not jealousy.

Back to the tv programme tho. It seems to me that Spain simply misspent and didnt look sensibly to or pan for the future - just short term greed!?

Jo xxx


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## neddie (Jun 11, 2012)

jojo said:


> However, the rich and their luxurious lifestyles does bring wealth with it - gardeners, cleaners, builders, decorators, chauffeurs, eating out....................
> 
> Wealth from the top, trickles down and it should also create aspiration and ambition, not jealousy.
> 
> ...


...Jo.. I agree with you.

....and how do you think the country could/should solve it's problem?

....I think that while it would introduce new problems initially, the country should pull out of the Euro. The "new Peseta" would find it's value and the government would be in a position to control it's own economy...instead of a bunch of burro-crats sitting in Brussels telling them what to do.


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## Navas (Sep 2, 2012)

OK, I've seen the whole programme now. I agree there was an element of short term greed and overspending but that's also easy to see in hindsight. A few years ago we drove past huge new areas of ugly tower blocks in the suburbs of Madrid and commented that nobody would ever want to live there, yet a year or two later my cousin's daughter moved into a very similar development on the outskirts of Zaragoza. She loves it there - it's a world away from the ancient town houses she was used to. With immigration on the rise at the time, were they really overbuilding in those inland areas? Maybe on the costas, but inland?

I also found myself partially agreeing with the Valencian government official, talking about the City of Arts and Science there. In my opinion, it is really stunning, and, in the longer term, I don't think it will be seen as a folly, but as visionary and forward thinking. Is it really so wrong, when at the time of planning you believe that money is no object, to create such a project? After all, it would have created employment at the time and will be around for people to enjoy and marvel at for many generations to come.

But I also saw parallels with the UK in the programme. In particular, the man who was hardly being ever paid, or being paid late, for being at work and feeling like he had to go for fear of being out of work altogether. My own daughter, working for a large international architects practice in London, has been experiencing the same situation for the whole of this year: months where she has not been paid on time, months where she is not paid at all. I have been supporting her as best I can. This is a company that has no connection with Spain! 

The food bank we saw in San Miguel de Salinas, seems to be a growing feature in the UK too.

The rich may create some jobs for those around them, but "aspiration and ambition rather than jealousy"? Tell that to those having to survive on handouts from the food banks and benefits that are constantly being cut.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Where are my and Baldy's posts?


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

mrypg9 said:


> Where are my and Baldy's posts?


 well we went off on one didnt we. I hope you dont mind, but I moved our thread drift stuff here 

http://www.expatforum.com/expats/la-tasca/135839-we-should-run-economy.html


Jo xxx


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## Mexberry (Dec 19, 2011)

I can understand the current government blaming previous administrations for the mess Spain and others are in. Canada came through the financial crisis better than most, not because Canadian bank are less greedy or that Canadian consumers are more frugal than others. It happened because laws governing the banks are more strict and that the Bank of Canada has a extremely competent governor. Mr. Carney will shortly take over as the governor of the BofE. The UK prime minister and his finance minister have made a prudent choice. Sterling will strengthen under Carney's watch which is good news for all expats drawing a UK pension.
Those not living in Spain could help by buying Spanish goods - every little bit helps keep Spaniards employed .
Mexberry.

Sent from my iPad using ExpatForum


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

jojo said:


> THE GREAT SPANISH CRASH - YouTube If you didnt see it
> 
> Jo xxx


Thanks for posting this. I really wanted to see it and couldn't.
I've watched 30mins and so far think it's telling it like it is. For example, the effect that the Guggenheim had on Bilbao and as the programme says, on Spain was amazing. The museum definitely marks a before and after in the history of Bilbao. The people, the shops, the businesses, the tourists - everything changed after the Guggen. opened and then, as is said, the effects were seen around Spain in other grandiose building projects.
I feel for the man in Valencia who's speaking outside the school made of freight containers and who says he could break down and cry due to the impotence that he feels in this situation. What kind of people build a formula one race track instead of schools??


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Navas said:


> OK, I've seen the whole programme now. I agree there was an element of short term greed and overspending but that's also easy to see in hindsight. A few years ago we drove past huge new areas of ugly tower blocks in the suburbs of Madrid and commented that nobody would ever want to live there, yet a year or two later my cousin's daughter moved into a very similar development on the outskirts of Zaragoza. She loves it there - it's a world away from the ancient town houses she was used to. With immigration on the rise at the time, were they really overbuilding in those inland areas?
> *Yes, they were unfortunately, and a lot of the building was done on sites that had ecological value, was built on rights of way, was built on dangerous ground (old mines/ under electric pylons/ on flood land) was built on land that was sold by a member of the local council to the town hall at hugely inflated prices (otherwise known as a backhander) etc etc and this was common practise EVERYWHERE and for years on end.*
> Maybe on the costas, but inland?
> 
> ...


***


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Quote (Navas):
*"Yes, the UK is not in good position, but it's still streets ahead of Spain in terms of wealth"
*

Yes the Uk is in debt to £375 billion (QE) at the last count, versus Spain's just under €100 billion (needed but not yet asked for) - I guess you could say that puts the UK streets ahead in the race to bankruptcy!


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

baldilocks said:


> Quote (Navas):
> *"Yes, the UK is not in good position, but it's still streets ahead of Spain in terms of wealth"
> *
> 
> Yes the Uk is in debt to £375 billion (QE) at the last count, versus Spain's just under €100 billion (needed but not yet asked for) - I guess you could say that puts the UK streets ahead in the race to bankruptcy!


Baldilocks, it was Pesky Wesky who you quoted, not Navas! You might be able to correct it still.

The figures are not adding up somewhere as Valencia alone is 25 billion Euros in debt according to this programme, and that's local debt, not national


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Baldilocks, it was Pesky Wesky who you quoted, not Navas! You might be able to correct it still.
> 
> The figures are not adding up somewhere as Valencia alone is 25 billion Euros in debt according to this programme, and that's local debt, not national


Sorry, that's why I couldn't do an automatic quote - you'd cheated and added it onto Navas's post. 

But the *national* indebtedness, i.e. the amount that Rajoy needs to borrow is only €100bn or so. The UK has *national* indebtedness of £375bn (QE money printing) these national amounts are outside of what is owed internally and outside, too, of the National Debt.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

baldilocks said:


> Sorry, that's why I couldn't do an automatic quote - you'd cheated and added it onto Navas's post.
> 
> But the *national* indebtedness, i.e. the amount that Rajoy needs to borrow is only €100bn or so. The UK has *national* indebtedness of £375bn (QE money printing) these national amounts are outside of what is owed internally and outside, too, of the National Debt.


OK assuming that those figures are correct (not doubting you, just the info that we are fed) would you agree that Spain is more in the sh*t than the UK as far as its people are concerned, 'cos that's what it looks like from here.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Pesky Wesky said:


> OK assuming that those figures are correct (not doubting you, just the info that we are fed) would you agree that Spain is more in the sh*t than the UK as far as its people are concerned, 'cos that's what it looks like from here.


Personally, I think not. In the UK, people are so used to spending what they haven't got so they are still splashing out money (mostly borrowed on cards, etc) on Christmas - the feel-good factor. I can only vouch for what I see here which is not much because these people (in rural Andalucía) have backgrounds from poor downtrodden people and do not spend what they haven't got. Just as we are having work done on parts of the house bit by bit as and when we can afford them and have the money to pay, so the locals don't run up bills for things for which they don't have the money. Hence, so far, we have only had one shop close for lack of business but had two open. As I have said before "crisis, what crisis?"


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## cyclequeen (Oct 5, 2012)

Well I have to say we watched this with interest as we are thinking of moving to Spain, our son lives in La Linea, next year. We don't intend to work but still feel nervous about it now as the scale of the problem is very frightening. The thought of not being able to get medicine etc & if essential workers are not being paid then how long till the country collapses. Ironically we watched Central News the same night watching about food parcels for people in need in Oxford, one of the UK's most affluent counties! The clip in this programme could have been the same actually. So it shows the same is happening all over, I do think our goverment has a better handle on it, I hope!!! We were thinking of renting for the first year then buying but not so sure now, also who would want to put all their money into a Spanish bank, worse than the UK banks.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

cyclequeen said:


> Well I have to say we watched this with interest as we are thinking of moving to Spain, our son lives in La Linea, next year. We don't intend to work but still feel nervous about it now as the scale of the problem is very frightening. The thought of not being able to get medicine etc & if essential workers are not being paid then how long till the country collapses. Ironically we watched Central News the same night watching about food parcels for people in need in Oxford, one of the UK's most affluent counties! The clip in this programme could have been the same actually. So it shows the same is happening all over, I do think our goverment has a better handle on it, I hope!!! We were thinking of renting for the first year then buying but not so sure now, also who would want to put all their money into a Spanish bank, worse than the UK banks.


 I think what makes it worse in Spain than the UK is that the UK has a comprehensive benefits system. Spain doesnt! Altho in my opinion the benefit system in the UK is being exploited beyond belief and creating a generation of people who are unable to fend for themselves - at least (and its a small blessing if at all right now) the spanish are strong and proud and resourceful! But in my small mind, it seems to me that the more folk that move to Spain who DONT NEED EMPLOYMENT the better for the country - it at least brings in some money


Jo xxx


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## jimenato (Nov 21, 2009)

baldilocks said:


> Personally, I think not. In the UK, people are so used to spending what they haven't got so they are still splashing out money (mostly borrowed on cards, etc) on Christmas - the feel-good factor. I can only vouch for what I see here which is not much because these people (in rural Andalucía) have backgrounds from poor downtrodden people and do not spend what they haven't got. Just as we are having work done on parts of the house bit by bit as and when we can afford them and have the money to pay, so the locals don't run up bills for things for which they don't have the money. Hence, so far, we have only had one shop close for lack of business but had two open. As I have said before "crisis, what crisis?"


You surprise me a little there baldi.

In the UK there are around 8% unemployed but in Spain the figure is 25% - as a measure of how the crisis is affecting the ordinary people I see that as very telling.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

jimenato said:


> You surprise me a little there baldi.
> 
> In the UK there are around 8% unemployed but in Spain the figure is 25% - as a measure of how the crisis is affecting the ordinary people I see that as very telling.


In the village, we are less dependent upon jobs from outside. There are the olives and other agriculrure, a certain amount of contruction/building maintenance but that is within the village and only paid for by people who can afford it. Here there has always been a measure of unemployment as there often is in rural areas but some of this is down to a lot of work being seasonal. When there is no work on the olives, cherries, almonds, kakis etc, then some of our workforce goes to other areas - France, Germany, Italy, etc - to help with their harvests (apples/pears/grapes, etc all mature at a different time from the olives!). Last year and this, we have told the Moroccans not to bother to come because their isn't enough work on the olives for them.

CORRECTION to my previous post - have heard today that the gestor is not doing so well since there is a lack of immigrants etc requiring his services and the small sub-branch of Banco Sabadel that they have in their office is likely to close because Santander are taking over Sabadel.


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## Goldeneye (Nov 12, 2011)

This kinda puts things in perspective...


U.S. National Debt Clock : Real Time <<<< This is my favourite site to vist for USA Debt 


World Debt Clock :: National Debt Clocks From Around The World


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## Navas (Sep 2, 2012)

baldilocks said:


> Quote (Navas):
> *"Yes, the UK is not in good position, but it's still streets ahead of Spain in terms of wealth"
> *
> 
> Yes the Uk is in debt to £375 billion (QE) at the last count, versus Spain's just under €100 billion (needed but not yet asked for) - I guess you could say that puts the UK streets ahead in the race to bankruptcy!


'Twas not me that said that, but Peskywesky, I believe, responding to a point that I had made.


EDIT: Just seen others telling you the same thing, sorry! I would have deleted this, if I could have.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Navas said:


> 'Twas not me that said that, but Peskywesky, I believe, responding to a point that I had made.
> 
> 
> EDIT: Just seen others telling you the same thing, sorry! I would have deleted this, if I could have.


No te preocupes,


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Baldilocks, it was Pesky Wesky who you quoted, not Navas! You might be able to correct it still.
> 
> The figures are not adding up somewhere as Valencia alone is 25 billion Euros in debt according to this programme, and that's local debt, not national




Great to see you back!!!


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Pesky Wesky said:


> OK assuming that those figures are correct (not doubting you, just the info that we are fed) would you agree that Spain is more in the sh*t than the UK as far as its people are concerned, 'cos that's what it looks like from here.


Yes. The UK has growth prospects, a lucrative financial sector, a AAA credit rating for what it's worth and can borrow at low yields and relend at higher rates..

Spain has serious structural problems and no plan for growth. Because it's in the eurozone it can't devalue, unlike the UK which is apparently planning even more QE...printing money and devaluing the £ to promote exports.

Spain can only compete on price and it is in competition with Greece, Portugal and similar economies in Eastern Europe.

So you are right.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

baldilocks said:


> Personally, I think not. In the UK, people are so used to spending what they haven't got so they are still splashing out money (mostly borrowed on cards, etc) on Christmas - the feel-good factor. I can only vouch for what I see here which is not much because these people (in rural Andalucía) have backgrounds from poor downtrodden people and do not spend what they haven't got. Just as we are having work done on parts of the house bit by bit as and when we can afford them and have the money to pay, so the locals don't run up bills for things for which they don't have the money. Hence, so far, we have only had one shop close for lack of business but had two open. As I have said before "crisis, what crisis?"


I agree that we should only comment on what we know, and you probably remember that one of my pet hates is when people talk about Spain when what they really mean is "the 50 mile radius of Spain that I know", but sometimes we have to look at the wider picture. Those unemployment figures about Spain and the UK are facts, and the tax that's flowing or rather trickling in from us workers is also a fact. The investment that the Spanish government is making into creating is also there for all to see. 

What, you can't see any? 

Exactly...

I was glad to see the E scheme from the previous government was brought up in the programme. I remember discussing it with people on the forum pointing out that it was a huge waste of public money that, whilst making a few plazas prettier and immproving one or two roads, was not going to lead to employment. It merely kept a reduced number of people in employment for a few months. If that money had been invested in starting up businesses in a controlled environment with expert guidance something might have come of it. As it is, absolutely nothing came of it.

Anyway, back to what I see.
Many closed shops and failed businesses.
People working on reduced salaries.
Prices for services dropping and then being raised slightly to accomodate the latest tax increases.
Young people staying on for as long as possible in educaction, but even this possibility is being chipped away as the government has introduced charges where there were none before (FP mentioned in the programme) or have increased charges (universities)

Ah well. At least it's not raining!!!


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

mrypg9 said:


> Great to see you back!!!


Thanks!


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## Guest (Dec 22, 2012)

Pesky Wesky said:


> I agree that we should only comment on what we know, ...


Quite true, but that would make all discussions much, much shorter!


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Well, I went shopping in a big shopping centre near Madrid today. Bit silly so close to Christmas and with money being tight I hear you say. Not at all. Many shops had offers on 30% in Springfield, got 20% off some boots, 50% in Woman's Secret.
In Murcia they've started the official sales already when they normally don't start until the 7th of Jan.

Now *I* think that's a sign of a recession going on.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

bobería said:


> Quite true, but that would make all discussions much, much shorter!


Which may not be such a bad idea in some cases.

BTW what does your signature mean?


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## Guest (Dec 23, 2012)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Which may not be such a bad idea in some cases.
> 
> BTW what does your signature mean?


"I put on airs of being intelligent, consequently I cause myself a lot of embarrasment" 

I'm not sure, that is my translation into English!


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Shopping centres are full here but are people actually buying, I wonder? After all, it seems that 'going to look around the shops' is now fast becoming Europe's Number One leisure activity.

Within a 50 km radius of where I am unemployment exceeds 40% and many bars and restaurants are struggling to stay open.

Yet....last week ADANA was invited to have a stall at a Christmas 'market' organised in its foyer by the five star Kempinski Hotel. The car park was choc-full of posh Spanish-plated cars with the odd German or Swiss-plated Merc or Porsche among them.

The hotel was obviously well-booked and the waiters were busy ferrying glasses and bottles of champagne to thirsty guests.

A few metres from our stall, which did quite well, animal charities usually do at events like that, was a stall collecting for the Estepona comedor social. Most of the expensively-attired guests passed it without a glance....
At times like that my previous socialist convictions stir within me, albeit momentarily.
I'm told that Sunday brunch at the Kempinski costs 60 euros a head....

Round our way, big posh houses are selling, although slowly. Pisos and adosados in the 150k to 350k price range aren't shifting.

Which goes to show that the truly wealthy are sailing through this crisis, if anything increasing their wealth.

Statistics for abandoned dogs may not be a reliable indicator of economic woe but for what it's worth, our shelter took in over seventy dogs in the past few weeks, many more than usual at this time of year.
Sandra and I found three pups by the rio yesterday while walking Our Little Azor.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

These were for sale originally at 155k euros, if I remember rightly. They are in a bad location, between a goat farm and the village sewerage works.
The first price reduction was 35%, then 55% then 66%.....soon they'll be offering BOGOF.
Says all you need to know about Spain's burst construction bubble....


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## ruefguet (Dec 8, 2011)

Unfortunately you need those expensively attired individuals to keep spending money otherwise those waiters at the Kempinski may well not have jobs.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

My friends have just arrived in Nerja (we're renting a villa with them for a few months). They were there last year at this time and they've noticed the contrast between last year and this because of the crisis. Lots of bars and shops closed, more street crime and a sense of depression. Its still lovely and they love Nerja, but it is starting to show!

Jo xxx


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

ruefguet said:


> Unfortunately you need those expensively attired individuals to keep spending money otherwise those waiters at the Kempinski may well not have jobs.



A pity they don.'t spend their money in less elegant establishments...If they did, there might not be so many millions unemployed....


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Ah well. At least it's not raining!!!


Glad you're back online. The voice of reason to counter the firebrands such as Mary and me!


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

mrypg9 said:


> These were for sale originally at 155k euros, if I remember rightly. They are in a bad location, between a goat farm and the village sewerage works.
> The first price reduction was 35%, then 55% then 66%.....soon they'll be offering BOGOF.
> Says all you need to know about Spain's burst construction bubble....


My first glance at that picture suggested ADANA - *they are* kennels aren't they?


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