# No residency, no Padron- Pego



## Rabbitcat (Aug 31, 2014)

To complicate things further whilst researchinginfo on Pego I have just discovered via a forum the issue being discussed that Pego council will not allow you to sign on Padron unless you are registered resident- really throws even more confusion on these matters

http://www.monte-pego-weather.info/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=286&SearchTerms=Padron


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Rabbitcat said:


> To complicate things further whilst researchinginfo on Pego I have just discovered via a forum the issue being discussed that Pego council will not allow you to sign on Padron unless you are registered resident- really throws even more confusion on these matters
> 
> Monte Pego Community Forum - Applying for Padron in Pego.


The law on this was changed in April 2015 & EU citizens are indeed required to register as resident before going on the padrón.

I posted about it at the time. I know that Jávea & Denia also ask for the 'green certificate', though a lot of aytos apparently don't as yet, from what I've read on FB & other forums.

Makes sense in a way - only residents are supposed to be on the padrón. 

Not sure why it's confusing. You don't have to produce a padrón cert when you register as resident.


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

Rabbitcat said:


> To complicate things further whilst researchinginfo on Pego I have just discovered via a forum the issue being discussed that Pego council will not allow you to sign on Padron unless you are registered resident- really throws even more confusion on these matters
> 
> Monte Pego Community Forum - Applying for Padron in Pego.


That's the way it SHOULD be! Nothing new there!

You should NOT be on the padron unless you are a resident.


However, some places (including where I live), insist that you are on the padron before allowing you to be resident.


.... go figure ...


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

xabiachica said:


> Not sure why it's confusing. You don't have to produce a padrón cert when you register as resident.


You do here! There's even a government poster stating this in their office.


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## Rabbitcat (Aug 31, 2014)

Yes SP it sure ain't consistent 

IMHO it should def be Res first then Padron. Makes more sense and also makes life easier for non residents, basically don't have to do either until you are settling permanently


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## Helenameva (Aug 15, 2014)

snikpoh said:


> That's the way it SHOULD be! Nothing new there!
> 
> You should NOT be on the padron unless you are a resident.
> 
> ...


And yet many many posters consistently say on here how easy registration is. What you have described is the kind of loop I was stuck in. I got there in the end but it was far from easy.


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## Rabbitcat (Aug 31, 2014)

Ah Helen -as one of those pesky posters who has regularly questioned the idiotic inconsistent nonsensical bureaucracy on Res/Padron matters , only to be rebuked that's it's all entirely straightforward and logical- it feels good that I am not alone!!!!!

Having read this about Pego, where it would appear you do sod all until you are going to live there permanent- its beginning to sound my kinda place!!!


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## Helenameva (Aug 15, 2014)

It's not always logical and straightforward, I can testify to that. However, as was said on another thread, roll with the punches, don't question too much (it won't always make sense) and persevere.


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## Rabbitcat (Aug 31, 2014)

Agree with you Helen

Bu if you get into the bureaucratic vortex of no Padron without a Res but no Res without a Padron it would be a tad irksome


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Rabbitcat said:


> Ah Helen -as one of those pesky posters who has regularly questioned the idiotic inconsistent nonsensical bureaucracy on Res/Padron matters , only to be rebuked that's it's all entirely straightforward and logical- it feels good that I am not alone!!!!!
> 
> Having read this about Pego, where it would appear you do sod all until you are going to live there permanent- its beginning to sound my kinda place!!!


It doesn't matter where you over to in Spain, you should never go on the padrón unless it's your main home..

You don't register as resident unless you live there either

what's complicated?

In the case of Ontinyent, presumably they are one of the aytos not asking for resident cert before you go on the padrón


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## Rabbitcat (Aug 31, 2014)

Indeed there they are insisting you are on the Padron before you can get residency!!

Consistency.......

Bottom line, always leave for a day after 90 consecutive and never exceed 183 days total in a year and you're laughing


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Rabbitcat said:


> Indeed there they are insisting you are on the Padron before you can get residency!!
> 
> Consistency.......


two different offices.

What I mean is, since people _are_ managing to register at the extranjería in Ontinyent, presumably with a padrón cert in hand, the ayuntamiento is clearly not asking for the res cert before allowing you to go on the padrón


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## Rabbitcat (Aug 31, 2014)

Lol

Whatever way you look at it its not consistent with other areas! 

SP states that in his area it's Padron first before Res, whilst Pego is the opposite


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## Helenameva (Aug 15, 2014)

xabiachica said:


> It doesn't matter where you over to in Spain, you should never go on the padrón unless it's your main home..
> 
> You don't register as resident unless you live there either
> 
> ...


It shouldn't be complicated but it often is, that's a fact. Some places interpret the rules differently, a lot of us can testify to that. Fortunately those of us who found this forum early realise we are not alone. Those poor people stuck in the loop alone i feel sorry for. So thank you forum mods and posters for helping to help us all. Mwah! Happy Sunday! Today I'm going to see Castellers!


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## Rabbitcat (Aug 31, 2014)

I think the "do nothing until you're gonna stay" vibe is cool

Too much stress sorting stuff could easily put me off my churros

Ps As long as I can buy a new car without Res, Padron- I am happy ( car dealer has told me required docs are- proof of address, NIE, two forms of ID....plus a lot of cash!)


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

It really isn't hard or complicated.

You simply follow the rules of where you are/will be living.


Getting on the padron is simple. Getting residency (if you follow the rules and in my experience) is simple.


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

snikpoh said:


> You do here! There's even a government poster stating this in their office.


we had too as well. Padron then residency.


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## Helenameva (Aug 15, 2014)

snikpoh said:


> It really isn't hard or complicated.
> 
> You simply follow the rules of where you are/will be living.
> 
> ...


Going along and being told to come back on 8th August, then 1st August, without explanation, sounds hard to me. They move the goalposts all the time, that isn't easy to deal with. Different people in the same office abide by different rules. You're lucky if you think your office is easy, although by your own posts I wouldn't say it is. It can be hard, it can be complicated, my experience.


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## paintersmate (Dec 1, 2015)

we bought a new car without residency, but had to have NIE and Padron (they even wanted to see deeds of the house) then there was a further delay as we had to be registered for tax ( Gestor arranged this), it all took almost as long to buy the car as it did to buy house


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## Rabbitcat (Aug 31, 2014)

So just go be clear about this painter in the Pego area you effectively must be resident to buy a car ( as there they want residency before you can sign on Padron) PLUS you must have lived there 6 months, ie tax registered????

Madness


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Rabbitcat said:


> So just go be clear about this painter in the Pego area you effectively must be resident to buy a car ( as there they want residency before you can sign on Padron) PLUS you must have lived there 6 months, ie tax registered????
> 
> Madness


You shouldn't need padrón to buy a car, nor to be resident. 

A non-resident property owner who wishes to buy a car would provide tráfico with the property deeds (escritura) as proof of address, & passport for proof of ID.


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## Rabbitcat (Aug 31, 2014)

That's what I was told by SEAT dealer in Denia


NIE, Passport, another ID, proof of address 

Everywheres apparently VERY different


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Rabbitcat said:


> That's what I was told by SEAT dealer in Denia
> 
> 
> NIE, Passport, another ID, proof of address
> ...


That dealer is likely used to dealing with non-residents.

Usual proof of address for residents is the padrón cert., & dealers who aren't used to dealing with non-residents will often demand it. 

Tráfico won't though, for the transfer of ownership. Maybe some funcionarios not used to dealing with non-residents might ask for it. But if it's explained to them that you aren't resident, & can provide your escritura, that should suffice.


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## paintersmate (Dec 1, 2015)

I dont know about Pego area, Rabbit, we were at Renault dealership in Gandia, and when buying our house we followed the advise of lawyer/gestoria ( from same office) we had NIE first, then Padron , registered for tax purposes as there was IVA to be paid on new car, then finally, residency


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## Rabbitcat (Aug 31, 2014)

Bit about IVA makes me wonder how did the car dealer I spoke to ( SEAT Denia) reckon I could pay that whilst being non resident and not tax resident

But I am sure I have read here before that non residents could buy new cars. Oh how we live and and learn! Thanks painter

Ps according to this link residency is NOT required

http://spainlawyer.com/guia-legal/su-vehiculo-y-el-trafico/la-compra-del-coche-2#05010301000000


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## Rabbitcat (Aug 31, 2014)

Oops waited to long to edit but just wanted to add I thought the dealer would add the IVA to the car price??


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

Rabbitcat said:


> So just go be clear about this painter in the Pego area you effectively must be resident to buy a car ( as there they want residency before you can sign on Padron) PLUS you must have lived there 6 months, ie tax registered????
> 
> Madness


Just one more thing to correct;

You don't need to wait 6 months to ne tax registered. After 6 months you AUTOMATICALLY are considered tax resident. However, if you choose you can be tax resident from day 1!


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## Rabbitcat (Aug 31, 2014)

True but ones hardly gonna rush to pay tax somewhere you aren't actually living just go be able to buy a car. I still think any tax owed on new car would be paid to the car dealer in the total price paid


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Rabbitcat said:


> True but ones hardly gonna rush to pay tax somewhere you aren't actually living just go be able to buy a car. I still think any tax owed on new car would be paid to the car dealer in the total price paid


You can register as tax-resident but that doesn't mean you are going to have to pay any tax - for example if you've already paid tax on earnings in the UK you won't have to pay twice. Or if your income during the previous calendar year was below the threshold.

We bought a new car last year and the IVA was included in the price paid to the dealer. I've never heard of anyone having to pay it separately.

Maybe if you are non-resident you can claim some of it back?


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## Rabbitcat (Aug 31, 2014)

Lol
Like your thinking re a refund, but would be happy enough just to be able to buy the car without Res or Padron


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

Rabbitcat said:


> Lol
> Like your thinking re a refund, but would be happy enough just to be able to buy the car without Res or Padron


We helped a friend to buy a car recently - he's non-resident and therefore not on the padron but he does own property here (and therefore pays non-resident tax).

Absolutely no problem - this was in Calpe.


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## Rabbitcat (Aug 31, 2014)

I love you Snikpoh and I want to have your babies


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## paintersmate (Dec 1, 2015)

Hi Rabbit, the IVA was included in the price quoted, not on top xx


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## Rabbitcat (Aug 31, 2014)

Yes but if it was included in the retal price then why were they requiring you to be registered for tax purposes? If it's a straightforward retail sale you are no more liable for other taxes ( other than the included IVA) than if you are buying an ice cream


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## chrisnation (Mar 2, 2009)

paintersmate said:


> we bought a new car without residency, but had to have NIE and Padron (they even wanted to see deeds of the house) then there was a further delay as we had to be registered for tax ( Gestor arranged this), it all took almost as long to buy the car as it did to buy house


How absurd. What has it got to do with buying a car, all this 'docamenti'? A Danish pal who came to stay with me in Bristol got a bit carried away by the amazingly cheap prices in UK for 2nd hand BMW m/bikes. He spent a good deal of his late dad's legacy on 22 BMWs, 2 Moto Guzzis and a Ducati! Oh - and renting two shipping containers and buying a Renault master LWB and a horse trailer to get these bikes back to DK. All with just wads of notes in hand.

I its the same nonsense if you buy from a private seller? Or ebay?


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## piersuk (Nov 13, 2015)

snikpoh said:


> Just one more thing to correct;
> 
> You don't need to wait 6 months to ne tax registered. After 6 months you AUTOMATICALLY are considered tax resident. However, if you choose you can be tax resident from day 1!


Can I just pick up on this... What stops you registering as a tax resident and living in the UK? I understand you may not have to pay tax as earnings in the UK have already been taxed but this perhaps creates a loophole in terms of residency in Spain when you don't live there.... 

Sorry, there is a question in there... Is it possible? 

Our lawyer (recommended by some big guns on here) says you cannot be tax resident in two countries... Am I getting confused with this?


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

piersuk said:


> Can I just pick up on this... What stops you registering as a tax resident and living in the UK? I understand you may not have to pay tax as earnings in the UK have already been taxed but this perhaps creates a loophole in terms of residency in Spain when you don't live there....
> 
> Sorry, there is a question in there... Is it possible?
> 
> Our lawyer (recommended by some big guns on here) says you cannot be tax resident in two countries... Am I getting confused with this?


I don't know about being "tax *resident*" but you can certainly be tax liable and pay tax in multiple countries.

In Spain, you don't actually "register as tax resident" it happens automatically when you meet the necessary criteria. You are then required/expected to submit a tax return.

To be deemed tax resident in Spain requires you to be living there for more than 183 days in a calendar (tax) year or to have your centre of economic interests there. So, how could you live in UK and meet those requirements?


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## Allie-P (Feb 11, 2013)

We applied for Residency in 2013, _ then _ took the documentation to sign on to the Padron.

That is how it works in Mijas Costa. 

_ but _

Our neighbour who owns a holiday home, & is non- resident, was told that she had to sign on to the Padron......before getting a licence to put in a new front gate, which allows their hired car to be kept in the courtyard.

All very confusing !! They receive extra money for all those signed on the Padron. Could that be the reason why the rules are changed


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Allie-P said:


> We applied for Residency in 2013, _ then _ took the documentation to sign on to the Padron.
> 
> That is how it works in Mijas Costa.
> 
> ...


A lot of ayuntamientos want every property owner to be on the padrón for that reason. However, Madrid, where the money comes from has been clamping down on this & actually fining aytos with non-residents on the padrón. Also the law was tweaked last year so that EU citizens are supposed to produce the green resident cert/card when going on the padrón.

A lot of aytos are ignoring that too  

Tell your neighbour to come off the padrón asap. Being on the padrón has the same triggers as being tax resident - that you spend most of the year at that address/in Spain. It's possible that Hacienda might start asking questions as to their tax residency status, & it could also cause them problems if they ever move here, if they are already on the padrón.


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## Allie-P (Feb 11, 2013)

Yes, Xabia, I have already mentioned this to my neighbour - but, she was told....No Padrón - no permit !! 

If, they insisted with her - it must be a wide-spread policy. How do you counter it ?


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Allie-P said:


> Yes, Xabia, I have already mentioned this to my neighbour - but, she was told....No Padrón - no permit !!
> 
> If, they insisted with her - it must be a wide-spread policy. How do you counter it ?


I would ask whoever is insisting what does a Spanish person who lives in Madrid, is on the padrón there, & has a holiday home in Mijas do about a permit?

They cannot be on the padrón in more than one town, & have to be on the padrón in the town where they have their main home.

I've actually used that argument with a Spanish councillor, & when I put it that way, they finally understood my point about holiday home owners not being on the padrón. 

If you're British, you're are on the census/electoral roll in your home town in the UK - so you cannot be on the census/electoral roll in Spain, which is basically what the padrón is.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

chrisnation said:


> How absurd. What has it got to do with buying a car, all this 'docamenti'? A Danish pal who came to stay with me in Bristol got a bit carried away by the amazingly cheap prices in UK for 2nd hand BMW m/bikes. He spent a good deal of his late dad's legacy on 22 BMWs, 2 Moto Guzzis and a Ducati! Oh - and renting two shipping containers and buying a Renault master LWB and a horse trailer to get these bikes back to DK. All with just wads of notes in hand.
> 
> I its the same nonsense if you buy from a private seller? Or ebay?


You have to provide an a address and proof of it when buying a car because the place where is is kept determines which Ayuntamiento will collect the car tax.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

snikpoh said:


> To be deemed tax resident in Spain requires you to be living there for more than 183 days in a calendar (tax) year or to have your centre of economic interests there. So, how could you live in UK and meet those requirements?


Quite simple because the dates of the tax years in both countries are not coincident.

For example: Residing in Spain from 1st January 2015 to 10th August 2015 then residing in UK 11th August 2015 to 5th April 2016, one would be tax resident in two countries for the period 6th April 2015 to 31st December 2015.


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

baldilocks said:


> Quite simple because the dates of the tax years in both countries are not coincident.
> 
> For example: Residing in Spain from 1st January 2015 to 10th August 2015 then residing in UK 11th August 2015 to 5th April 2016, one would be tax resident in two countries for the period 6th April 2015 to 31st December 2015.


You need to read the other posts (which you may have overlooked).

I stated that you can be resident in more than one country at the same time.

What the OP was asking is, can he be tax resident in Spain whilst living (permanently) in UK.


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