# US expat banking question



## Barbalee (Mar 26, 2011)

I posted this question on another thread but received no responses. You are all so incredibly helpful, I suspect it just got overlooked, so I thought I'd try again:

Okay, this is a tough one for me: I currently live in Oklahoma (USA) and will be arriving in Dubai in August. I believe I can have no more than USD $10,000 in a Dubai bank at the end of the year for taxation reasons (as well as Sharia laws). I'm considering opening a US HSBC (New York) bank account as well as one in Dubai HSBC so that I can transfer money from Dubai to the US. Is this true? Is this possible? Is this the best thing to do? So confused!


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## cobragb (Mar 15, 2010)

It is possible to transfer money from any bank outside the US to any bank inside the US. You just need the swift code and account number.

I have no idea about the Sharia law you mention.

You can have more than $10k USD in a financial institution outside the US, but when you file your taxes, you are supposed to fill out the appropriate form for the treasury department. This is a fairly new requirement. Last two years, I think.

Hope this helps....


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## Barbalee (Mar 26, 2011)

cobragb said:


> It is possible to transfer money from any bank outside the US to any bank inside the US. You just need the swift code and account number.
> 
> I have no idea about the Sharia law you mention.
> 
> ...


Yes, this helps because I may not need to get an extra bank account...but what is a swift code? Is it the same as the routing number?

Thanks, Cobrabg!


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## cobragb (Mar 15, 2010)

Swift Is for international transactions and routing numbers are for inside the US. You should be able to find the swift code for you bank on it's website.


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## cobragb (Mar 15, 2010)

saaf said:


> yes it is really good post good to know that swift code? credit card no type of code?


I think it is just a six alphanumeric code. Each bank has one.


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## Barbalee (Mar 26, 2011)

cobragb said:


> Swift Is for international transactions and routing numbers are for inside the US. You should be able to find the swift code for you bank on it's website.


Not on the website, but a call shall be made. Thanks again! :clap2:


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## NYC4Life (Jul 5, 2011)

Barbalee said:


> I believe I can have no more than USD $10,000 in a Dubai bank at the end of the year for taxation reasons (as well as Sharia laws).


Is this true? I'm an American who is in the process of relocating to UAE as well. So what do American expats do?


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## neilrock (May 7, 2011)

A swift bid code is an 11 digit number used by swift to identify the bank and branch...

E.g. BARCGB20XXX is for Barclays HQ

CHASUS33 is JP Morgan...

N

Sent from my iPhone using ExpatForum


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## Barbalee (Mar 26, 2011)

neilrock said:


> A swift bid code is an 11 digit number used by swift to identify the bank and branch...
> 
> E.g. BARCGB20XXX is for Barclays HQ
> 
> ...


I'll have to find one for the ******* branch of Bank of the Wichitas...trust me, it won't be classy~


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## Barbalee (Mar 26, 2011)

NYC4Life said:


> Is this true? I'm an American who is in the process of relocating to UAE as well. So what do American expats do?


I'm not even there yet, so I can't give solid advice, but I believe that if you have anything over USD $10,000 in an overseas bank at the end of the year, there are special US treasury forms you need to fill out and send to the US...that's why I'm trying to figure out the best way to send money from the UAE to the US.

I also understand that no matter what your will might say, Shariah law takes precedence. So if something unthinkable happened that causes an early demise, anything you have (money, goods, property, bills, whatever) would go to the oldest surviving male relative. I wouldn't want that to happen, so I want anything I have of consequence to go to my kids...that means it would have to be in the US.

Now, a senior expat may well be ready to prove my misunderstanding.... so be ready for that!


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## Canuck_Sens (Nov 16, 2010)

HSBC offers a product called global view which allows you to transfer funds to different accounts. So yes you could easily transfer your funds held in HSBC Dubai to US.

I use global view. It is convenient and hassle free. 

You can also wire your funds as some of other posters explained. You need the BIC code and your account number. If you have an HSBC account in Dubai you can wire online too and it is easy!


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## md000 (Dec 16, 2008)

Barbalee said:


> I'm not even there yet, so I can't give solid advice, but I believe that if you have anything over USD $10,000 in an overseas bank at the end of the year, there are special US treasury forms you need to fill out and send to the US...that's why I'm trying to figure out the best way to send money from the UAE to the US.
> Now, a senior expat may well be ready to prove my misunderstanding.... so be ready for that!


This is somewhat true. My tax accountant has advised me on the following:

You must report the maximum value in the account during the calendar year - NOT at the end of the year. You must file if the amount exceeds $10,000 at any time during the calendar year OR if the aggregate of all foreign accounts exceeds $10,000. You must do this for each foreign bank account - even if you have multiple accounts at the same institutions (i.e. current account, savings account, investment account, etc.) The form is located at: FBAR- Form TD F 90-22.1 

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f90221.pdf

If you fail to file this form and get caught, the IRS is evil. They have the ability to fine you $10,000 plus 50% of the total balance exceeding $10,000.

If you need a proper US-based foreign tax account, please private message me and I will refer you.

-md000/Mike


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## Barbalee (Mar 26, 2011)

md000 said:


> This is somewhat true. My tax accountant has advised me on the following:
> 
> You must report the maximum value in the account during the calendar year - NOT at the end of the year. You must file if the amount exceeds $10,000 at any time during the calendar year OR if the aggregate of all foreign accounts exceeds $10,000. You must do this for each foreign bank account - even if you have multiple accounts at the same institutions (i.e. current account, savings account, investment account, etc.) The form is located at: FBAR- Form TD F 90-22.1
> 
> ...


This is an absolutely critical distinction! Thank you, Mike. I will PM.


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## cobragb (Mar 15, 2010)

Still, it is up to you to tell the IRS how much you make outside the US and it all depends on 
when or if you return to the USA. I.E. Retirement age. 

Legally, whatever you make outside the US and you spend outside the US as long as it is below
the 95,500 USD mandated by the IRS, then you are okay despite what the treasury department
says, you are still abiding by the letter of the law and maintain your USA Passport legitimacy. 

There seems to be a conflict between the IRS and the treasury department at the present time. 

The thing to do is to get a great accountant that is familiar with expat laws before you leave.


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## Barbalee (Mar 26, 2011)

cobragb said:


> Still, it is up to you to tell the IRS how much you make outside the US and it all depends on
> when or if you return to the USA. I.E. Retirement age.
> 
> Legally, whatever you make outside the US and you spend outside the US as long as it is below
> ...


Boy, that last line sure sounds true! And it's not easy to do when one doesn't have a US home base!


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## Coldubs (Jun 11, 2011)

My wife is american and I am colombian. We are moving to dubai next month and we both have jobs lined up in dubai. We were wondering if she will have to file taxes based on both of our incomes or just hers being that I am not an american citizen. Any help is appreciated.


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## md000 (Dec 16, 2008)

Coldubs said:


> My wife is american and I am colombian. We are moving to dubai next month and we both have jobs lined up in dubai. We were wondering if she will have to file taxes based on both of our incomes or just hers being that I am not an american citizen. Any help is appreciated.


As I've mentioned numerous times, please consult a proper U.S. tax accountant for these types of issues. If you need a recommendation on someone, please send me a private message.

In my situation (I am American and my wife is not, nor is she a Green Card holder), I file individually. This may or may not work for others.

-md000/Mike


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## jfambrini (Jul 12, 2011)

*Sharia and Inheritance*

Dear Barbalee:
Very interesting discussion. I'm surprised that no one has corrected your misunderstanding of the Sharia Law. Actually 1400 years ago Quran was the first book that discontinued the practice of property passing to the eldest son. In Shariah the property goes to all the children including the female children and the wife. I'm not sure if Shariah law will apply to a non-Muslim though.

The Quran gave women right to property ownership, right of inheritance, right of education and right of divorce. These rights were not available in Jewish, Christian, Hindu or Buddhist scriptures and these rights only became accessible to these countries when they became secular. 

Women did not have property or inheritance rights even in Europe till the 19th century. In United Kingdom women only got right to property and inheritance in 1870. Prior to that any property or wage she obtained went to her husband by law. A women in Europe including England was not a separate legal being by law. If she wrote a book and got some royalty that royalty went to her husband by law. If her father left her some property it became ownership of her husband. Generally property went to male kins and women were not even included but in the rare case when the father left her something in his will, it passed to her husband. Even after this Act she still could not inherit more than 200 pounds, any more and it went to her husband. 

A Muslim woman was always considered a legal person in her own right thanks to the Quran and was able to transact business, hold property, become Head of State and by law the Father was bound to give his daughters and wives specified share in his property. Even if he wanted he could not pass his property just to his sons. In India, Europe and most of Asia property was passed to the eldest son to preserve feudal system. In India and most of non-Muslim Asia and Africa property is still not passed to women.

Thanks,
Regards,
John



Barbalee said:


> I'm not even there yet, so I can't give solid advice, but I believe that if you have anything over USD $10,000 in an overseas bank at the end of the year, there are special US treasury forms you need to fill out and send to the US...that's why I'm trying to figure out the best way to send money from the UAE to the US.
> 
> I also understand that no matter what your will might say, Shariah law takes precedence. So if something unthinkable happened that causes an early demise, anything you have (money, goods, property, bills, whatever) would go to the oldest surviving male relative. I wouldn't want that to happen, so I want anything I have of consequence to go to my kids...that means it would have to be in the US.
> 
> Now, a senior expat may well be ready to prove my misunderstanding.... so be ready for that!


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## indoMLA (Feb 6, 2011)

^UAE has a civil law that states that if a foreigner does not have a will that the UAE government can't follow/utilize, then his assets become property of the state. That is why it is important to have a will that dictates how you want assets in the UAE to be divided among your heirs. The other solution is to not have any assets in the UAE. No assets=No issues.

Shariah law doesn't technically apply to non-muslims, but if your assets are in a Muslim country, then how those assets are dealt with will follow Shariah law.


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## indoMLA (Feb 6, 2011)

Oh and some good reads on Shariah are:
LINK  - Deals with allocation of wealth to family & 
LINK (this one is specific to the UAE) - Some laws specific to property

To the OP, can your company pay you directly into a US account? If so, that would be the better option and then just withdraw your cash as needed from a no-fee ATM in the UAE. Also, might look into no fee credit cards for use internationally. Good Luck.


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## Barbalee (Mar 26, 2011)

A like, a thanks, and a Wow! Wow! Wow! I am definitely misguided on this one, and I'm delighted to find out!



jfambrini said:


> Dear Barbalee:
> Very interesting discussion. I'm surprised that no one has corrected your misunderstanding of the Sharia Law. Actually 1400 years ago Quran was the first book that discontinued the practice of property passing to the eldest son. In Shariah the property goes to all the children including the female children and the wife. I'm not sure if Shariah law will apply to a non-Muslim though.
> 
> The Quran gave women right to property ownership, right of inheritance, right of education and right of divorce. These rights were not available in Jewish, Christian, Hindu or Buddhist scriptures and these rights only became accessible to these countries when they became secular.
> ...


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## Vetteguy (Jan 3, 2010)

cobragb said:


> It is possible to transfer money from any bank outside the US to any bank inside the US. You just need the swift code and account number.
> 
> I have no idea about the Sharia law you mention.
> 
> ...


I bank with HSBC here and have no HSBC acct. in the USA. Also I have no idea what a "Swift #" is either. I wire transfer money to the USA every month with only my USA bank routing # with no problem what so ever. It is really easy to transfer $$$$ from here to there.. Just remember that Uncle Sam and the IRS will see anything over $5k at any one transfer. It used to be $10k each time but since Sept 11 2001 that has changed.


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## Benee (Jul 13, 2011)

*Transferring money abroad*

I am with HSBC and you can transfer money to your home account online. You can even set up your account in your home country whilst you are in Dubai setting up the account here. If you qualify for the top tier of banking then this can even be done for free. I hope this helps...


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## Barbalee (Mar 26, 2011)

Okay, HSBC it is! Just to be on the safe side, I think I'll get a US account before my arrival in Dubai. Since the service seems to require the "patience hat," I'll find one of those, too ! Thanks, Vetteguy and Bennee!


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## Benee (Jul 13, 2011)

Barbalee said:


> Okay, HSBC it is! Just to be on the safe side, I think I'll get a US account before my arrival in Dubai. Since the service seems to require the "patience hat," I'll find one of those, too ! Thanks, Vetteguy and Bennee!


Hi Barbalee, yes if you open a standard account in the US and then when you come to Dubai you can open an account here. The best for doing the global transfers is the premier account as it's free and you can see both accounts on one login. If you need someone efficient out here to set up your premier account then let me know as I know someone who did mine.


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## Barbalee (Mar 26, 2011)

Benee said:


> Hi Barbalee, yes if you open a standard account in the US and then when you come to Dubai you can open an account here. The best for doing the global transfers is the premier account as it's free and you can see both accounts on one login. If you need someone efficient out here to set up your premier account then let me know as I know someone who did mine.


This one is a giggle for me. I'm a long way from the funds for a premier account, but maybe someday....


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## indoMLA (Feb 6, 2011)

Barbalee, a few questions:
1. Where in the US are you located? There might be a Compass bank and they charge no ATM fees for withdrawing money anywhere (word-wide). Best interest to get you one of these accounts.

2. Will your company pay you direct to a US account or will they only pay direct to a local bank? If US, then you can have some of your money go there and some come to the Dubai bank. That way you can withdraw with no issues.

3. Look into a No Foreign Transaction Fee credit card. Most require you to have perfect credit (I don't know what your credit score is), but then you can buy everything on credit and use the US accounts to pay it off.

Good Luck.


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## Barbalee (Mar 26, 2011)

indoMLA said:


> Barbalee, a few questions:
> 1. Where in the US are you located? There might be a Compass bank and they charge no ATM fees for withdrawing money anywhere (word-wide). Best interest to get you one of these accounts.
> 
> 2. Will your company pay you direct to a US account or will they only pay direct to a local bank? If US, then you can have some of your money go there and some come to the Dubai bank. That way you can withdraw with no issues.
> ...


1. Where I am is rather confusing! Today I am in Oklahoma. Next week I'll be in New Mexico. The week after that, I'm moving to Virginia (DC area), and then two weeks later I'll be moving to Dubai. I'm planning to open an HSBC account in DC, but I'll look to see if there is a Compass bank there. That might be an even better thing to do than open two HSBC accounts.

2. The company will only pay me direct to a Dubai account...that's why I want to be able to transfer money from there to the US bank without exorbitant fees.

3. Any suggestions as to where I might find a No Foreign Transaction Fee credit card? My credit score should be good enough to get one.

Thanks for the suggestions!


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## indoMLA (Feb 6, 2011)

Barbalee said:


> 1. Where I am is rather confusing! Today I am in Oklahoma. Next week I'll be in New Mexico. The week after that, I'm moving to Virginia (DC area), and then two weeks later I'll be moving to Dubai. I'm planning to open an HSBC account in DC, but I'll look to see if there is a Compass bank there. That might be an even better thing to do than open two HSBC accounts.
> 
> 2. The company will only pay me direct to a Dubai account...that's why I want to be able to transfer money from there to the US bank without exorbitant fees.
> 
> ...


1. Your home state is what I was after... look at Compass bank website and try to find a location.

2. That sucks. If this is truly the case, then no need to deal with the bank or the credit card as you can grab money out of the local bank with no issues. For transfers, you should be able to use any exchange service to transfer money to your US bank account with no issues. The fees might be there, but I think the others might be able to help better then me.

3. Credit Cards - although you might not need it.


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## Barbalee (Mar 26, 2011)

indoMLA said:


> 1. Your home state is what I was after... look at Compass bank website and try to find a location.
> 
> 2. That sucks. If this is truly the case, then no need to deal with the bank or the credit card as you can grab money out of the local bank with no issues. For transfers, you should be able to use any exchange service to transfer money to your US bank account with no issues. The fees might be there, but I think the others might be able to help better then me.
> 
> 3. Credit Cards - although you might not need it.


You're awesome help...don't knock yourself (the world will do that for you anyway)!


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## NYC4Life (Jul 5, 2011)

indoMLA said:


> Barbalee, a few questions:
> 1. Where in the US are you located? There might be a Compass bank and they charge no ATM fees for withdrawing money anywhere (word-wide). Best interest to get you one of these accounts.
> 
> 2. Will your company pay you direct to a US account or will they only pay direct to a local bank? If US, then you can have some of your money go there and some come to the Dubai bank. That way you can withdraw with no issues.
> ...


Days of #3 are long gone in the US of A.


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## indoMLA (Feb 6, 2011)

NYC4Life said:


> Days of #3 are long gone in the US of A.


Huh? Please explain. Are you talking about getting a no foreign transaction fee credit card as most credit card companies are moving in that direction. Most of the companies that offer them are from the US (Capital One and Chase are two that I know of).

Or were you talking about having a credit score considered perfect? If that is the case then again you are wrong as there are a lot of people that have them.


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## Jynxgirl (Nov 27, 2009)

What’s the Best International Travel Credit Card? Our Transaction Fee Survey Results


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## Barbalee (Mar 26, 2011)

Jynxgirl said:


> What’s the Best International Travel Credit Card? Our Transaction Fee Survey Results


Thanks, Jynx! 120 days, eh? I hope you find Texas all that it used to be!


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## cobragb (Mar 15, 2010)

Haha, she'll be back in Texas wishing for real service and complaining about paper towels in the bathrooms in no time......


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## Jynxgirl (Nov 27, 2009)

Barbalee said:


> Thanks, Jynx! 120 days, eh? I hope you find Texas all that it used to be!


:cheer2::cheer2::cheer2:

No changes in my neck of the woods... Going for hikes in the hill country with grass and trees (even if it is brown), Sixth street and every type of live music imaginable most days of the week, wide open roads to ride my motorcycles all over, family and friends bbq's every weekend, my parents no longer babysitting my dog to complain at me daily  and just having my big head saint to pal around with and do 'stuff' outdoors  

God bless Texas lane: (my office is so annoyed with me )


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## cobragb (Mar 15, 2010)

I hear ya, I miss San Antonio. Went to school on the North West side of town...., UTSA!


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## Jynxgirl (Nov 27, 2009)

cobragb said:


> I hear ya, I miss San Antonio. Went to school on the North West side of town...., UTSA!


Texas State myself... 

Now :focus: Before the mods slap us.


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## cobragb (Mar 15, 2010)

oops, sorry. I forgot what we were talking about....

Sent you a PM.


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## indoMLA (Feb 6, 2011)

cobragb said:


> I hear ya, I miss San Antonio. Went to school on the North West side of town...., UTSA!


That is University of Texas South of Austin, right?


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## Andrew James (Nov 6, 2010)

md000 said:


> This is somewhat true. My tax accountant has advised me on the following:
> 
> You must report the maximum value in the account during the calendar year - NOT at the end of the year. You must file if the amount exceeds $10,000 at any time during the calendar year OR if the aggregate of all foreign accounts exceeds $10,000. You must do this for each foreign bank account - even if you have multiple accounts at the same institutions (i.e. current account, savings account, investment account, etc.) The form is located at: FBAR- Form TD F 90-22.1
> 
> ...


Hi Mike,

You might be surprised to know that you don't have to go all the way back to the US for expert advice, you can find it locally.

Please remember that it's not just bank accounts that you need to report.

Cheers,

Andrew


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## NYC4Life (Jul 5, 2011)

indoMLA said:


> Huh? Please explain. Are you talking about getting a no foreign transaction fee credit card as most credit card companies are moving in that direction. Most of the companies that offer them are from the US (Capital One and Chase are two that I know of).
> 
> Or were you talking about having a credit score considered perfect? If that is the case then again you are wrong as there are a lot of people that have them.


Most CC companies in the US are reinstituting foreign transaction fees. I have a Chase card (highest tier card of Chase Sapphire) and they just started charging foreign transaction fees. CapOne not sure. That's why I use my Amex Plat, but there is obviously an annual fee there.


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## cobragb (Mar 15, 2010)

indoMLA said:


> That is University of Texas South of Austin, right?


OUCH! That hurt!


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## md000 (Dec 16, 2008)

Can you private message me the names/emails/numbers of UAE-based tax accountants that have experience with the US tax code? 

And, yes, I know - you need to report all financial instruments.

-md000/Mike



Andrew Landin said:


> Hi Mike,
> You might be surprised to know that you don't have to go all the way back to the US for expert advice, you can find it locally.
> 
> Please remember that it's not just bank accounts that you need to report.


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## jfambrini (Jul 12, 2011)

Barbalee said:


> A like, a thanks, and a Wow! Wow! Wow! I am definitely misguided on this one, and I'm delighted to find out!


Dear Barbalee:
Good luck on your move. One wonderful thing about moving to new climes is its ability to shave our stereotypes. I recommend anyone moving to a new culture to read at least one book about it to avoid big faux paus. You won't have to study Christianity to move to Europe or study Buddhism to move to East Asia but it certainly does help to familiarize oneself with Islam as to my knowledge Islam is the only religion which still permeates all aspects of Muslim countries so my investment in some books on Islam not only corrected many of my misperceptions but also gave me a deeper understanding of this faith. 

If you can read only one book I would recommend "the Complete Idiot's Guide to Understanding Islam" by Yahiya Emerick written by a white American convert to Islam and is therefore more accessible to folks like us. If that does not whet your appetite then books by John Esposito are pretty good.


Regards,
John


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## Barbalee (Mar 26, 2011)

jfambrini said:


> Dear Barbalee:
> Good luck on your move. One wonderful thing about moving to new climes is its ability to shave our stereotypes. I recommend anyone moving to a new culture to read at least one book about it to avoid big faux paus. You won't have to study Christianity to move to Europe or study Buddhism to move to East Asia but it certainly does help to familiarize oneself with Islam as to my knowledge Islam is the only religion which still permeates all aspects of Muslim countries so my investment in some books on Islam not only corrected many of my misperceptions but also gave me a deeper understanding of this faith.
> 
> If you can read only one book I would recommend "the Complete Idiot's Guide to Understanding Islam" by Yahiya Emerick written by a white American convert to Islam and is therefore more accessible to folks like us. If that does not whet your appetite then books by John Esposito are pretty good.
> ...


Thank you, John! I appreciate the book tip. I found a different one in the library, but I didn't come away understanding much of anything. I'll go book shopping next!


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## NewUSExpat (Jun 10, 2011)

NYC4Life said:


> Most CC companies in the US are reinstituting foreign transaction fees. I have a Chase card (highest tier card of Chase Sapphire) and they just started charging foreign transaction fees. CapOne not sure. That's why I use my Amex Plat, but there is obviously an annual fee there.


I have a CapOne Visa, no foreign transaction fees.

I also use Charles Schwab Bank for regular stateside banking. No ATM fees worldwide (actually they reimburse you every month). No foreign transaction fees. No min balance. A decent website. Oh and the new cool thing is that you can deposit checks using your iphone or Android phone. Using their app you take a picture of the front and back and submit it electronically...pretty cool for when you get that random check. 

BTW, I've never been to a Schwab Bank branch nor am I in the same state where they have branches. It was all done online and via mail.

Don

And no, I do not work for them...just a satisfied customer


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