# Engineers Australia Relative experience



## Mohsobhy86 (Feb 28, 2016)

*Dears,
I'd like to share my case with you to help me to take the right decision

I am Electrical Engineer with 8 yrs experience ,

I submit my assessment to EA and chose to have a relative work experience assessment for extra 300$ But unfortunately, they approved on 5yrs and 5 months only .

as they did not consider my first 2 years, although I have experience letter from my company as per the EA standard , and have social insurance letter that proves my employment at this period 












So my points are 55 points and I am struggling with IELTS and PTE


Now, one of immigration expert said to my that I did a mistake when I chose to let EA make a relative work experience assessment. and he adviced me to just reassessment for my qualification and get the outcome letter like the below one 











as per him, the immigration officer will count my experience since my first job .and then I will be able to apply for 189 now without IELTS 7777.

Really I am afraid to go in this process and after I pay the application fees the officer refuse the 8 years and then I will lose my money .*

*Please, what I have to do?? I am confused *


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## sp999 (Aug 7, 2016)

Mohsobhy86 said:


> *Dears,
> 
> I'd like to share my case with you to help me to take the right decision
> 
> ...




It's better to call or email immigration department directly Before you waste money for skill assessment again. Ask them which experience they calculate. 

In some occupations they only count assessed experience only. In your case its 5.5 year. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Hello_mate (Aug 15, 2016)

Well, i think there is a reason that EA has been authorized by DIBP to outline a Relevant Skill Assessment (RSA). 
If i were in your shoes, i would not go down the road of reassessment of only the academics and then make my case weaker. Also, i doubt EA will entertain such request too. 

My advise is to opt for State Sponsorship instead. Yes there will be a limitation in SS but its the only viable option. 

Also, you might have to wait ages and ages to get a invite and then if nothing goes as plan, you might loose it all and don't forget the ban they might impose.


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## Mohsobhy86 (Feb 28, 2016)

Hello_mate said:


> Well, i think there is a reason that EA has been authorized by DIBP to outline a Relevant Skill Assessment (RSA).
> If i were in your shoes, i would not go down the road of reassessment of only the academics and then make my case weaker. Also, i doubt EA will entertain such request too.
> 
> My advise is to opt for State Sponsorship instead. Yes there will be a limitation in SS but its the only viable option.
> ...


But As you surely know, it is not compulsory to go for the (RSA) this was an option
and this option costs me around 300 AUD extra
and this is only solution for me, 

However, Why I can take a ban?? I did not submit any fake papers.


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## Hello_mate (Aug 15, 2016)

Mohsobhy86 said:


> But As you surely know, it is not compulsory to go for the (RSA) this was an option
> and this option costs me around 300 AUD extra
> and this is only solution for me,
> 
> However, Why I can take a ban?? I did not submit any fake papers.


yes true, its not mandatory. However, if you want to claim points for experience with DIBP then you *NEED *to have a RSA done. I'll explain why : 

Suppose you have a degree in mechanical engineering. But you are working as an electrical engineer (for example). Now, the DIBP COs might not understand this clash of academics and work experience. To eradicate this issue, they have authorized RSA authorities (WHO ARE EXPERT PROFESSIONALS) to provide a preliminary report that the work experience and academics are both in accordance with the ANZSCO guidelines and GSM.

Moreover, its an option because individuals might not need to claim points in case they have, lets say, 8 each in ielts and total points exceed 60 without including work experience. 

I hope you understand why RSA is required, if it was not "compulsory", no one in their right minds would pay extra for it. Regarding the ban, DIBP have clear guidelines that you need to prove what you have claimed in the submitted EOI. If they reject your workexperience for some reason, they can ask you to either withdraw or MIGHT put a ban, considering you were unable to prove your claims.

Good luck !!


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## Mohsobhy86 (Feb 28, 2016)

Hello_mate said:


> yes true, its not mandatory. However, if you want to claim points for experience with DIBP then you *NEED *to have a RSA done. I'll explain why :
> 
> Suppose you have a degree in mechanical engineering. But you are working as an electrical engineer (for example). Now, the DIBP COs might not understand this clash of academics and work experience. To eradicate this issue, they have authorized RSA authorities (WHO ARE EXPERT PROFESSIONALS) to provide a preliminary report that the work experience and academics are both in accordance with the ANZSCO guidelines and GSM.
> 
> ...


I think you are right brother, I will not take this risk 
thanks for your advice


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## Mohammad786 (Jun 13, 2017)

Dear Brother Mohsobhy86,

I am facing the same issue as you had. EA deducted 3 years of my work experience. Did you find any best solution of this issue? please share with me for your kind help. Thanks.


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## Mohammad786 (Jun 13, 2017)

Hi Dear Mohsobhy86,

I am facing the same problem as you had. EA Deducted 3 yrs of my work experience in my outcome letter for the same reason as you had. 
Did you find any best solution of this issue? Please share if you find the solution for helping me. I am in trouble. Thanks brother.


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## JP Mosa (Mar 14, 2013)

Hello_mate said:


> yes true, its not mandatory. However, if you want to claim points for experience with DIBP then you *NEED *to have a RSA done. I'll explain why :
> 
> Suppose you have a degree in mechanical engineering. But you are working as an electrical engineer (for example). Now, the DIBP COs might not understand this clash of academics and work experience. To eradicate this issue, they have authorized RSA authorities (WHO ARE EXPERT PROFESSIONALS) to provide a preliminary report that the work experience and academics are both in accordance with the ANZSCO guidelines and GSM.
> 
> ...



What was explained is pertaining to RPL where academics differ from work experience.

Ban will be imposed only when applicant fail to support his claims when served with NJL.


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## JP Mosa (Mar 14, 2013)

Mohsobhy86 said:


> I think you are right brother, I will not take this risk
> thanks for your advice



In your case, assessed with 5.5 years relevent experience which you can claim for points.

More than that will be at your own risk.


I guess your academics and work expeience in same filed


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## Mohammad786 (Jun 13, 2017)

Brother, My work experience and academics are in the same field. EA deducted the 3 yrs from another company which they asked me to provide Insurance record that I was not entitled by my company. I provided alternative which they didn't considered and immediately sent my outcome letter with 3 yrs deduction.


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## JP Mosa (Mar 14, 2013)

Mohammad786 said:


> Brother, My work experience and academics are in the same field. EA deducted the 3 yrs from another company which they asked me to provide Insurance record that I was not entitled by my company. I provided alternative which they didn't considered and immediately sent my outcome letter with 3 yrs deduction.



which means they did not accpet the third party evidence you provided.

Now a days, EA is very adamant about third party evidence


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## Mohammad786 (Jun 13, 2017)

Yes they did not accepted that third party and sent me outcome without requesting any alternate. Now I should go for DIBP and provide them with all evidence of that experience or what else? IELTS or PTE is another option but that will take much preparation and I dont have time due to busy job schedules.


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## JP Mosa (Mar 14, 2013)

Mohammad786 said:


> Yes they did not accepted that third party and sent me outcome without requesting any alternate. Now I should go for DIBP and provide them with all evidence of that experience or what else? IELTS or PTE is another option but that will take much preparation and I dont have time due to busy job schedules.



If you have all supporting documents for the work experience deducted, you can claim.

But, its your own call bro


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## Mohammad786 (Jun 13, 2017)

Yes brother I have following supporting documents of that deducted work experience.

1. Job Contract letter
2. Experience reference letter
3. All Payslips
4. Full Bank statement of 3 years
5. Group training certificates

Is there any chance of this experience acceptance by DIBP?


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## JP Mosa (Mar 14, 2013)

Mohammad786 said:


> Yes brother I have following supporting documents of that deducted work experience.
> 
> 1. Job Contract letter
> 2. Experience reference letter
> ...



They are enough

If you can try to include

Offer letter
Emp ID card
Tax returns


Make sure somebody answer verification call in that place if any

Good luck


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## Mohammad786 (Jun 13, 2017)

I have offer letter and employment ID Card. I don't have tax return. In 2008 my salary was below Tax deduction level. I am totally confused with this situation as DIBP fee is huge and there will be a great loss of money and even ban.

I am wasting your time bro, plz give me last advise or options that i should consider now. Thank you very much.


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## JP Mosa (Mar 14, 2013)

Mohammad786 said:


> I have offer letter and employment ID Card. I don't have tax return. In 2008 my salary was below Tax deduction level. I am totally confused with this situation as DIBP fee is huge and there will be a great loss of money and even ban.
> 
> I am wasting your time bro, plz give me last advise or options that i should consider now. Thank you very much.




1. If you have required score even without that 3 years non relevent experience as per EA, that's well and good.

2. If you want to claim those 3 years experience which deducted by EA, provide anything and everything pertaining to that experience

3.Regarding tax documents, check if you can file your own tax returns even below the tax bracket income or try to get a letter from that company HR stating that you do not fall under tax bracket ,hence no tax deduction.

Good luck


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## Mohammad786 (Jun 13, 2017)

I need to include that 3 yrs for points as I need 8 yrs experience in total for 60 points. Now with 3 yrs deduction I stuck at 55. I can get tax exemption letter from HR of the company. Rest all the doc I have.

Thank you very much brother. I will apply now and will take the risk as I have all proof of this job.


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## JP Mosa (Mar 14, 2013)

Mohammad786 said:


> I need to include that 3 yrs for points as I need 8 yrs experience in total for 60 points. Now with 3 yrs deduction I stuck at 55. I can get tax exemption letter from HR of the company. Rest all the doc I have.
> 
> Thank you very much brother. I will apply now and will take the risk as I have all proof of this job.



Good luck Bro


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## farrukh.rashid (Mar 22, 2017)

Mohammad786 said:


> I need to include that 3 yrs for points as I need 8 yrs experience in total for 60 points. Now with 3 yrs deduction I stuck at 55. I can get tax exemption letter from HR of the company. Rest all the doc I have.
> 
> Thank you very much brother. I will apply now and will take the risk as I have all proof of this job.


Even if you include the 3 years experience then DIBP might not consider it because firstly EA had deducted the 3 years experience and secondly if you you want to claim the points of those 3 year, then DIBP will require tax document (FBR document for Pakistan) or Provident Fund Statement as 3rd party evidence. It is useless to provide bank statement as EA does not consider it as 3rd party evidence. Moreover, while filling EOI I found the following note on DIBP website 

"Clients who have an opinion on their skilled employment from the relevant assessing authority should enter employment periods as specified on the letter from the assessing authority." So that means you will be only able to claim the points of your 5 years experience only. When I applied for assessment at EA I didn't provide any 3rd party evidence document and then EA sent an email to provide any of them. Therefore, I provided 3 provident fund statements & 1 year tax document as my salary for the 1st 2 years was non-taxable.

I will advise you to apply for Relevant Work Experience Assessment again on EA and try to provide the 3rd party evidence document. The same case happened with my colleague as he didn't provide 3rd party document on time and EA deducted his experience. But, then he applied again for the work experience assessment only with all the documents and thus received the updated outcome letter with the all of his experience mentioned.


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## m_hegazy (Apr 18, 2017)

Guys , I think you confused me 
based on my colleagues who got already the grant and all are engineers 

You have two options ;

1- Either to go with MSA 
2- or pay more for RSA 

If EA deducted more years , at the end DIBP the sole part who can verify your points NOT EA , please don't be pessimistic !! then how the engineers got granted if they went before for MSA ??? without showing any experience in their EA Outcome !!! the CO is qualified to assess any duty letters and any documents pertaining any experience is being claimed , that is why EA made an option for RSA first to get more money , secondly to give more protection for your case 

If I were you , I would go for lodging BUT submit allllllll papers you can give to them , social insurance , bank statements , duty letter , statutory declaration , End of service letter , etc. 
CO is not a ROBOT , he is a human and have a space to understand these mistakes


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## damsey64 (May 11, 2017)

@JP, I think I am also having the same issue. I went for educational assessment with EA & got positive outcome thinking I will get 20points from English test but now I need to apply with my 8yrs experience. My concern now is that I got my M.Sc during d 8yrs although I was on paid study leave 2 UK for the programme. I use d M.Sc as part of CPD submitted to EA but use qualifications obtained in 2007 to get positive outcome. My question is how we DIPB or EA compute my year of experience? I need clarification urgently.
Thanks.


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## m_hegazy (Apr 18, 2017)

damsey64 said:


> @JP, I think I am also having the same issue. I went for educational assessment with EA & got positive outcome thinking I will get 20points from English test but now I need to apply with my 8yrs experience. My concern now is that I got my M.Sc during d 8yrs although I was on paid study leave 2 UK for the programme. I use d M.Sc as part of CPD submitted to EA but use qualifications obtained in 2007 to get positive outcome. My question is how we DIPB or EA compute my year of experience? I need clarification urgently.
> Thanks.


Elaborate more !!! that means you got the EA outcome for BSC only ? without considering MSC ??


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## damsey64 (May 11, 2017)

I got positive outcome as civil engineering draftsperson with Advanced diploma obtained in 2007, I started my present job in 2009 & I got sponsorship with full salary paid leave to study M.Sc in 2013. I submitted M.Sc document initially to be access as PE. I later email EA to use d Advanced diploma & transfer d MSc to CPD which he obliged & outcome positive.


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## JP Mosa (Mar 14, 2013)

damsey64 said:


> @JP, I think I am also having the same issue. I went for educational assessment with EA & got positive outcome thinking I will get 20points from English test but now I need to apply with my 8yrs experience. My concern now is that I got my M.Sc during d 8yrs although I was on paid study leave 2 UK for the programme. I use d M.Sc as part of CPD submitted to EA but use qualifications obtained in 2007 to get positive outcome. My question is how we DIPB or EA compute my year of experience? I need clarification urgently.
> Thanks.


You were assessed for diploma obtained in 2007
job experience 2009-2013- Approx 4 years
2013-M.Sc ...Am I right ? missing something?


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## damsey64 (May 11, 2017)

JP Mosa said:


> damsey64 said:
> 
> 
> > @JP, I think I am also having the same issue. I went for educational assessment with EA & got positive outcome thinking I will get 20points from English test but now I need to apply with my 8yrs experience. My concern now is that I got my M.Sc during d 8yrs although I was on paid study leave 2 UK for the programme. I use d M.Sc as part of CPD submitted to EA but use qualifications obtained in 2007 to get positive outcome. My question is how we DIPB or EA compute my year of experience? I need clarification urgently.
> ...


Yes, We EA deduct the 1yrs study since I was on paid leave & was still doing part of duty offshore.
Thanks.


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## JP Mosa (Mar 14, 2013)

damsey64 said:


> Yes, We EA deduct the 1yrs study since I was on paid leave & was still doing part of duty offshore.
> Thanks.


If its part of your PG studies, that will not be considered as work experience,if you are going for assessment based on your PG.

Since Dip is completed in 2007 and you started working in 2009, if you claim W.E after dip....i.e 2009, there is a chance that you will be assessed for W.E.

In the second scenario, you need to state that your PG is part time and you dedicate your max hours to work that you claimed.


Its my understanding of your case


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## m_hegazy (Apr 18, 2017)

@ JP , I have one question 

How DIBP assess the duty letters and experience certificates for the engineers have MSA EA outcome , without work experience assessment ?? I know one of my friends , didn't submit all his experience certificates to EA , only the experience certificates which mentioned in the three Episodes ?? There is any internal verification between EA and DIBP ? As I know from my agent , DIBP checks only the outcome letter is fake or not ??!!


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## JP Mosa (Mar 14, 2013)

m_hegazy said:


> @ JP , I have one question
> 
> How DIBP assess the duty letters and experience certificates for the engineers have MSA EA outcome , without work experience assessment ?? I know one of my friends , didn't submit all his experience certificates to EA , only the experience certificates which mentioned in the three Episodes ?? There is any internal verification between EA and DIBP ?




They are interlinked.
Its not like EA is assessing whatever applicant requests to gain money, it is the only authorized organization allowed by DIBP to assess applicant's credentials whether they are relevant or not and to decide suitable profession.


It all depends on how an applicant present himself professionally with minimum flaws in his application.


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## m_hegazy (Apr 18, 2017)

JP Mosa said:


> They are interlinked.
> Its not like EA is assessing whatever applicant requests to gain money, it is the only authorized organization allowed by DIBP to assess applicant's credentials whether they are relevant or not and to decide suitable profession.
> 
> 
> It all depends on how an applicant present himself professionally with minimum flaws in his application.


Yes , but what I was asking , if anyone goes for MSA without RSA , how DIBP assesses his experience certificates and duty letters ? As I know , incase you are going to MSA you can only submit your experience certificates which associated with your 3 episodes ONLY , and afterwards you can claim your experience points @ DIBP lodging stage , 
for example ; I am mechanical engineer with 8 years experience ( 6 years in one company and 2 years in another ) , I go with MSA without RSA , and I did my 3 episodes with the 6 years working experience company , without submitting any documents for the 2 years experience , and the EA outcome is accredited my bachelor degree only. Afterwards in EOI , I submit the full 8 years experience.
The question is , this two years , DIBP can deduct it ? or how they will evaluate it ??


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## JP Mosa (Mar 14, 2013)

m_hegazy said:


> Yes , but what I was asking , if anyone goes for MSA without RSA , how DIBP assesses his experience certificates and duty letters ? As I know , incase you are going to MSA you can only submit your experience certificates which associated with your 3 episodes ONLY , and afterwards you can claim your experience points @ DIBP lodging stage ,
> for example ; I am mechanical engineer with 8 years experience ( 6 years in one company and 2 years in another ) , I go with MSA without RSA , and I did my 3 episodes with the 6 years working experience company , without submitting any documents for the 2 years experience , and the EA outcome is accredited my bachelor degree only. Afterwards in EOI , I submit the full 8 years experience.
> The question is , this two years , DIBP can deduct it ? or how they will evaluate it ??



Well,

When one opts exclusively for MSA without RSA, Applicant will submit any document that supports h/her CEs.In this case ,some ppl submit W.Exp Letters.

EA is bothered to assess qualification only as applicant requested.

Now, If applicant wants to lodge visa application and willing to claim W.exp points without EA RSA assessment, h/she can at their own risk if h/she holds all required documents pertaining to the w.exp.

In this scenario, I can not comment because the decision to accept or reject the work experience which is not assessed is at sole discretion of CO dealing with that particular case.


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## m_hegazy (Apr 18, 2017)

@ JP , So if it is risky , why EA make RSA as Optional ??!!


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## JP Mosa (Mar 14, 2013)

m_hegazy said:


> @ JP , So if it is risky , why EA make RSA as Optional ??!!




Because all applicants do not want to claim points for Work Exp.


Many try to get points through other means, 

That may be the reason they did it as optional.


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## m_hegazy (Apr 18, 2017)

JP Mosa said:


> Because all applicants do not want to claim points for Work Exp.
> 
> 
> Many try to get points through other means,
> ...


Ok , that means is not risky from beginning to go with MSA 

As I told you , claiming points is DIBP sole responsibility NOT EA , as mentioned from EA booklet


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## JP Mosa (Mar 14, 2013)

m_hegazy said:


> Ok , that means is not risky from beginning to go with MSA
> 
> As I told you , claiming points is DIBP sole responsibility NOT EA , as mentioned from EA booklet




Its clearly understandable that DIBP is responsible for checking points claimed by applicant and authenticity of their claims,I never said EA is responsible for awarding points for PR.

EA is authorized body assigned by DIBP to provide an opinion on applicants credentials.


I still say its risky, If someone want to claim work experience without RSA.

Remember one thing, If someone gets through successfully, same doesn't apply to all applicants.

So I still stress, that they are interlinked, those who wanna jump the wall can take risk.


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## m_hegazy (Apr 18, 2017)

@JP , what it is meaning of "interlinked" and it is pre or post lodging the Visa ??? 

I have 5 cased of my friends they went through MSA without Relevant Skilled Employment and they got granted very fast !!


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## JP Mosa (Mar 14, 2013)

m_hegazy said:


> @JP , what it is meaning of "interlinked" and it is pre or post lodging the Visa ???
> 
> I have 5 cased of my friends they went through MSA without Relevant Skilled Employment and they got granted very fast !!


Once an applicant applies to EA, all that applicant record will be maintained in EA database

DIBP can request the record of any particular applicant's assessment at anytime from EA which was clearly written in EA that the information of candidates will be shared with DIBP at any time.


I said earlier, one can take risk of claiming work experience without RSA,If h/she thinks that they can provide all necessary documents to support their Work experience claims. In any case, DIBP conducts its own verification.

If applicant is confident of facing any kind of checks from DIBP,they can go ahead.

Case to case is different. One can not compare with other.


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## m_hegazy (Apr 18, 2017)

JP Mosa said:


> Once an applicant applies to EA, all that applicant record will be maintained in EA database
> 
> DIBP can request the record of any particular applicant's assessment at anytime from EA which was clearly written in EA that the information of candidates will be shared with DIBP at any time.
> 
> ...


Totally with you , and believe me all the cases are on risk due to the current circumstances 

But this statement "DIBP can request the record of any particular applicant's assessment at anytime from EA which was clearly written in EA" is not mentioned in the EA booklet ?? from where you derive it ?


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## JP Mosa (Mar 14, 2013)

m_hegazy said:


> Totally with you , and believe me all the cases are on risk due to the current circumstances
> 
> But this statement "DIBP can request the record of any particular applicant's assessment at anytime from EA which was clearly written in EA" is not mentioned in the EA booklet ?? from where you derive it ?



Did you read EA site?


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## JP Mosa (Mar 14, 2013)

m_hegazy said:


> Totally with you , and believe me all the cases are on risk due to the current circumstances
> 
> But this statement "DIBP can request the record of any particular applicant's assessment at anytime from EA which was clearly written in EA" is not mentioned in the EA booklet ?? from where you derive it ?




MSA Booklet--->> Page 11--->>Ethical Standards says:



*Information you provide to Engineers Australia may be 
used for data matching with Australian Government 
agencies.* 




*The sanctions regarding misleading applications include 
notification to the Department of Immigration and Border 
Protection and up to 12 months ban from applying for a 
skills assessment with Engineers Australia.
*


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## vikaschandra (Aug 5, 2015)

Smks1989 said:


> Hi,
> 
> I just got positive outcome form engineering australia but they ahve reduced 1 year from my experience i.e they have assessed me from 2013 to 2017 june and due to this i cannot claim points for 5 years. Now i wanted to know that i will be filing application for subclass-189 in next couple of months and i beleive it will take atleast 8 months or more to get invitation (with the current situation of points score) and till that time i will have 5 years of experience. So i will get points for experience that engineering australia has verified ?or this additional experience will also be added (till the time of invitation) and i can claim points for 5 years experience ?
> 
> Please help , i am confused.


replied on the other thread please check


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## zymeth27 (Dec 19, 2016)

*EA deducted years exp.*

Hi All, 

I have the same case, but mine is under 1 company only. 
Im in my company for 9 years,, from july 2008 till present. But EA deducted year 2008-2012, beacuse i have missed to submit the tax for that year. 

Now i have all the tax and other supporting documents. 

Can someone please advise if I can still claim the max point for work experience?


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