# Even Dr Zuma has a sense of humour!



## JoziJoe (Mar 21, 2008)

> Ladies and Gentlemen,
> 
> The history of the Jewish people across the world is one of achievement and resilience.
> 
> ...


Politicsweb - DOCUMENTS - We need skilled South Africans to return - Jacob Zuma

Living up to expectations in Palestine after a huge exodus from Johannesburg late 1980's and early 1990's.


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## DannyBoy (Apr 29, 2009)

*Sense of Humour ??*



JoziJoe said:


> Politicsweb - DOCUMENTS - We need skilled South Africans to return - Jacob Zuma
> 
> Living up to expectations in Palestine after a huge exodus from Johannesburg late 1980's and early 1990's.


Where is the sense of Humour, what do you mean??
Are you sayin the Jews (Helen Suzman etc.) did not contribute to the demise of apartheid?
Are you saying that the doctors, lawyers, professors at Wits and UCT did NOT contribute to the betterment of S.A?

WHAT ARE YOU SAYING?


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## Halo (May 8, 2008)

Its called grinding your axe on a public forum.....


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## JoziJoe (Mar 21, 2008)

Danny, no, it’s not that I don’t acknowledge that some Jewish citizens of South Africa made an effort to bring an end to discrimination, many other groups, even some white Afrikaners, were dedicated and supported Mandela’s struggle.

It is the *ambiguity *of British and Jewish life during the Apartheid era in South Africa that I query.



> Oppenheimer's family was reported to be worth $2.5 billion, according to Forbes magazine's 1997 list of the world's super-rich.
> Oppenheimer, arguably South Africa's most respected businessman, was a v*ocal opponent of his country's racist regime that sanctioned apartheid for decades.*
> "Disagreeable though it may be, we must admit that the racial policy which has been pursued here over the last 40 years has made South Africa stink in the nostrils of decent, humane people around the world," Oppenheimer said in a speech in 1989.
> *But Oppenheimer's role as the leading businessman in South Africa made his position within the racist regime ambiguous.
> ...


Harry Oppenheimer; Led Diamond Giant - Los Angeles Times



> One of the most influential campaigners against the* "Jew-imperialist design" in South Africa was John A. Hobson* (1858-1940), a prominent journalist and economist.
> 
> In 1899 the Manchester Guardian sent him to South Africa to report first-hand for its readers on the situation there. During his three month investigation, Hobson became convinced that a s*mall group of Jewish "Randlords" was essentially responsible for the strife and conflict.*
> 
> ...


The Boer War Remembered




> *Barney Barnato, a dapper, vulgar fellow from London's East End (born Barnett Isaacs), was one of the first of many Jews who have played a major role in South African affairs.* Through pluck and shrewd maneuvering, by 1887 he presided over an enormous South African financial-business empire of diamonds and gold.
> 
> In 1888 he joined with his chief rival, Cecil Rhodes, who was backed by the Rothschild family of European financiers, in running the De Beers empire, which controlled all South African diamond production, and thereby 90 percent of the world's diamond output, as well as a large share of the world's gold production.note 3 (
> 
> *In the 20th century, the De Beers diamond cartel came under the control of a German-Jewish dynasty, the Oppenheimers, who also controlled its gold-mining twin, the Anglo-American Corporation. With its virtual world monopoly on diamond production and distribution, and grip on a large part of the world's gold production, the billionaire family has ruled a financial empire of unmatched global importance. **It also controlled influential newspapers in South Africa. So great was the Oppenheimers' power and influence in South Africa that it rivaled that of the formal government.)*


The Boer War Remembered


SA millionaire John Schlesinger:



> At 40 Schlesinger is only beginning. Though his social life has not appreciably slowed down, he has proved himself as industrious on the job as his father. His working day begins at 8:30 a.m., and even on vacation he runs the show from an office on his converted British Fairmile motor torpedo boat. A U.S. Air Force bombardier during World War II, Schlesinger renounced his American citizenship in 1947 (his American wife won a legal separation from him in 1958). Now a South African citizen, he has no use for apartheid. "There will have to be changes here," he says. "The government's policy of separate development is not the answer. South Africa must eventually become multiracial, but in the first instance whites will have to play the dominant role." He is busy doing just that.


South Africa: His Father's Son - TIME

Doing what? All of them *publicly *“supported” the Anti Apartheid struggle but fully utilized the cheap black labour to grow their own fortunes. Harry Oppenheimer was one of the richest men on earth. These people were powerful enough to bring about change in South Africa by merely equalizing the salaries of their labour force, but they did not. Why?

John Schlesinger, like thousands of other unbelievably wealthy British and Jewish families, strangely departed from South Africa around 1994, just before or after the release of Mandela. It does not make sense, why leave the country when the struggle and dream you have supported for years was about to become a reality?


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## JoziJoe (Mar 21, 2008)

DannyBoy said:


> Where is the sense of Humour, what do you mean??
> Are you sayin the Jews (Helen Suzman etc.) did not contribute to the demise of apartheid?
> Are you saying that the doctors, lawyers, professors at Wits and UCT did NOT contribute to the betterment of S.A?
> 
> WHAT ARE YOU SAYING?


Continued...

Is it realistic to believe that *4 million whites*, mostly ordinary farm folk, had the power, money and military ability to keep *45 million blacks in control?* 

Do the math, at an estimated 1:11 white: black ratio, what chance did they stand? The exploitation of dirt cheap labour resources to mine the abundant, african mineral resources could only have been a *well planned strategy *by huge financial powers with sophisticated military backing to enforce it.

It's no big secret that SA used Israeli intelligence in SA Border Control and Wars.

Brilliant marketing though, depict the SA white farmers as the source of the problem.



> Many Jewish South Africans, both individuals and organizations, helped support the anti-apartheid movement.
> 
> *Still, the Jewish Board of Deputies refused to take a stand against apartheid until 1985, arguing that it was not a Jewish one. The rabbinate also avoided taking a stance on the issue until the late 1980's.*





> *Israel maintained diplomatic relations with South Africa throughout the period, as did most Arab countries, Taiwan, Belgium, and Britain. Despite the arms embargo, these countries sold arms to South Africa during the apartheid era. There have even been reports of nuclear cooperation. Various Israeli leaders publicly condemned the apartheid system.* During the early 1960's, Israel aligned with other African countries against the apartheid system, straining its relationship with South Africa. After the Six-Day War in 1967, most African countries broke diplomatic ties with Israel, except for South Africa, and this led to increased relations between the two.





> *Jews prospered during the apartheid era, as did many non-Jewish white citizens.* The Jewish population, however, contained a higher than usual percentage of college graduates. More than 50 percent of the Jews were matriculated, compared to the average 23% in the total white population.* Ten percent of the Jewish community had university degrees, compared to only 4% of the total white population. Jews were disproportionately represented in the commercial and financial sectors of society.*






> Between 1970 and 1992, more than 39,000 Jews left South Africa, during this same period approximately 10,000 Israelis moved into the country.


The Virtual Jewish History Tour - South Africa



Is it by any coincidence that there is a monument to Harry Oppenheimer in Tel Aviv?

Harry Oppenheimer Diamond Museum | Harry Oppenheimer Diamond Museum, Tel Aviv, Israel | Whatsonwhen


Is it by coincidence that there are now strong references to Apartheid being practised on the Westbank?

'This is like apartheid': ANC veterans visit West Bank - Middle East, World - The Independent


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## JoziJoe (Mar 21, 2008)

It remains a mystery as to why someone would kill off the goose that lays the golden egg. 

Perhaps this cartoon comes closest to the answer:

ReverendFun.com : Cartoon for Jul 28, 2008: "The Wolf found Shepherd's Clothing worked even better"


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## JoziJoe (Mar 21, 2008)

Halo said:


> Its called grinding your axe on a public forum.....


Public Forums generally provide an opportunity for debate. You should really watch those sensitive British toes... but if the shoe fits....


Wouldn't it be great if British/EU Educational Institutions could in future teach subjects such as :

_How to colonise without causing genocide_
(Lord Kitchener would have excelled at that one)

The South African disaster could serve as a perfect case study, as long as the *FACTUAL *events are stated in proper, chronological order :


*Introduction & Evolving of Apartheid under British Rule *


*1892* Franchise & Ballot Act,	Black Vote limited by Finance & Education
*1894* Natal Legislative Assembly,	Denies Indians the right to vote

*1905* Lagden Commission institutionalises Racism	Later known as Apartheid. (Denies Blacks the right to vote, required to carry a pass, separate living areas)

*1906* Asiatic Registration Act,	Indians required to register & carry passes

*1910* The South Africa Act	Empowers Whites with complete political control over all other races
The Union of South Africa established	a British Colony with a self governing Dominion within the British Empire

*1913* Native Land Act,	Restricts Blacks from owning land
*1914* National Party founded,	Afrikaner Nationalist Party formed

*1918* Natives in Urban Areas Bill,	Blacks forced into urban reserves known as "locations" (Much like Red Indian Reserves)
*
1923* Urban Areas Act,	Enforces residential segregation providing cheap labour for white industry (fully utilised by Diamond and Gold Mining Groups such as De Beers and Anglo American, the Oppenheimer dynasty)

*1926* Color Bar Act,	Blacks cannot practice skilled trades
*1927* Native Administration Act	British Crown monopoly over African Affairs
*1946* Asiatic Land Tenure Bill	Prevents Land Sales to Indians



*Perpetuation of Apartheid under white Afrikaner Nationalist Rule	*

*1948* Nationalist Party wins elections	Afrikaner Nationalists take power in SA, DF Malan as Prime Minister

*1949* Prohibition of Mixed Marriages Act	

*1950* Population Registration Act,	classifies South Africans by Race
Immorality Act	prohibits sexual contact across colour barriers
Group Areas Act,	Assigns racial groups to separate residential & business areas

*1951* Separate Representation of Voters Act,	Affects the Vote of people classed as "Colored'
Bantu Authorities Act,	Principle of Blacks Reserves (Much like Red Iandian Reserves), known as 'Homelands'
*
1953* Bantu Education Act	, Separate education for Blacks
Separate Amenities Act,	prohibits different races from using same public amenities
Settlement of Disputes Act,	prohibits Black Strike Action
*
1955* Group Areas Development Act	

*1956* Mines & Works Act,	enforces racial discrimination on work level
Natives Act,	Denies Blacks appeal to enforced removal

*1957* Natives Church Act,	expulsion of Blacks from Church services

*1958* Hendrik Verwoerd Era,	Verwoerd, known as the "Architect of Apartheid" becomes Prime Minister

*1958* Promotion of Black self government	independent Black homelands established, classifies Blacks into 8 ethnic groups

*1961* South Africa declares independence,	Becomes a Republic & withdraws from the British Commonwealth

Indemnity Act	Relieves government officials from responsibility for Sharpeville Massacres

Source:

Apartheid South Africa by British Author, John Allen


As for the future, well, Politicians may come and go, but a diamond is forever.




> *But while the pundits debate the first year of the Mandela era, DeBeers continues to control 80 percent of the world's diamond trade, "with 50 percent of these diamonds by value coming from the company's own mines in South Africa, Botswana, and Namibia."*50 Jonathan M.E. Oppenheimer, Harry Oppenheimer's grandson, the son of Nicholas F. Oppenheimer of Johannesburg, deputy chairman of the great mining giants, the Anglo-American Group and DeBeers Consolidated Mines, Ltd., *the latter founded by Cecil Rhodes with the backing of the Rothschilds, *represents the next generation of Oppenheimers as he continues his work as a management trainee at N.M. Rothschild & Sons in London.51 *Politicians may come and go, but as the DeBeers ad claims on television, "a diamond is forever." *


U.S. Policy in South Africa


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## DannyBoy (Apr 29, 2009)

Why are you SPECIFICALLY targeting the Jews?

Are you saying that "PEOPLE LIKE YOU" and "YOUR FAMILY" are innocent of the so-called apartheid legacy, and that ONLY the "EVIL JEWS" who rejected the Mythical Christ should be sent back to the "Labour Camps in the East" to atone for the "great crimes against the native Africans".

Explain....'cos I don't get what you're saying.


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## JoziJoe (Mar 21, 2008)

DannyBoy said:


> Why are you SPECIFICALLY targeting the Jews?
> 
> Are you saying that "PEOPLE LIKE YOU" and "YOUR FAMILY" are innocent of the so-called apartheid legacy, and that ONLY the "EVIL JEWS" who rejected the Mythical Christ should be sent back to the "Labour Camps in the East" to atone for the "great crimes against the native Africans".
> 
> Explain....'cos I don't get what you're saying.



It’s a pity that you interpret my questions regarding the *ambiguity *of Jews *as well as, the British, *who formed an *undeniably prominent part of South African society during the Apartheid era,* as specifically targeting the "evil Jews". That was not the intention at all.

Rest assured though, you are in good company, being depicted as “evil” has been the fate of many nations. As far as South Africa goes, the *white Afrikaner *farmer, *to date,* still stands strongly “accused” and associated as being the major cause of the evil named Apartheid. 

Misrepresentation of the white Afrikaner’s role in Apartheid (a smear campaign of massive proportion engineered by the very people who were the original architects of Apartheid) ensured that this concept was globally cemented into the minds of those just watching TV news, an audience unlikely to query the motivations of such a campaign over a dinner of bangers and mash. *The White Afrikaners were not the architects of Apartheid, they were the perpetrators of Apartheid.*

By the same token, *the Black nations of Southern Africa* have suffered misrepresentation on massive scale too, being portrayed as a savage, tribal society without structure, intellectually incapable of political and economical success. 

It makes being called “evil Jews” almost mild in comparison.

The only *prominent part of the complex South African Apartheid Society* that seem to be *free of condemnation or blame, are the British,* the group that laid the *cornerstone of Apartheid.* Irrespective of historical facts, they live in total denial and accept no responsibility for their actions. 



> British High Commissioner Milner, with crucial "gold bug" backing, began secretly to foment a full-scale war to drag the Boer lands into the Empire. While publicly preparing to "negotiate" with President Kruger over the status of the "uitlanders," Milner was secretly confiding his intention to "screw" the Boers.


The Boer War Remembered

Were any *British *or *Jewish Apartheid benefactors* called to testify at the TRC (Truth and Reconciliation Commission), as were the white Afrikaner villains of Apartheid? Perhaps Harry Oppenheimer should have been summonsed to explain his actions: 



> But Oppenheimer's role as the leading businessman in South Africa made his position within the racist regime ambiguous.
> His labor-intensive mines thrived on a migrant labor system that forced black workers to live apart from their families, and his companies paid black workers far less than whites.
> 
> *His economic success was considered crucial to the survival of the apartheid government,* which ruled until South Africa's first all-race elections in 1994.



Harry Oppenheimer; Led Diamond Giant - Los Angeles Times

I bear no personal loyalties to any groups of Apartheid South Africa, my ancestry is German. No need to explain the “evil” of being German to anyone, and the Germans resident in South Africa were even more evil, they slipped across Swaziland borders during the Apartheid era and produced dark, olive skinned children with wavy hair and piercing blue eyes, found to be totally unclassifiable in South Africa.

I just think it is time that, for the sake of a better understanding, Apartheid was analysed in more detailed perspective.

I wonder if the Oppenheimer family will publically voice their protest against BEE as they did with Apartheid? Will we see the equivalent of a Helen Suzman rise against this Racist policy implemented by the ANC? Are the strong comparisons to Apartheid on the West Bank in Palestine an indication that perhaps, there were some Jews that *were not as partial to racial integration as Helen Suzman would have want the world to believe?* Helen Suzman courted Nelson Mandela, who represented the ANC, well known for it’s communistic agenda. Yet on the South African borders, South Africans were fighting communism with the aid of these overseas countries?



> Israel maintained diplomatic relations with South Africa throughout the period, as did most Arab countries, Taiwan, Belgium, and Britain. Despite the arms embargo, these countries sold arms to South Africa during the apartheid era.


The Virtual Jewish History Tour - South Africa

It’s not as if there were no other highly elligible black candidates available for election:



> *Buthelezi appealed to those who never had any use for white liberals like Helen Suzman,* whose Liberal party had been outlawed,* and who maintained a life of luxury in the midst of a system she purported to detest.* As the cast of "Wait A Minim," the South African musical comedy mocked, "*the only thing the liberals hate more than apartheid is the blacks.*"
> 
> *Buthelezi, highly intelligent and articulate, played the role of the radical conservative, to the increasing attention of the United States. *Capable of appearing fiercely traditional in tribal dress one minute, and handsome and immaculate in a Saville Row suit the next, *Buthelezi began to capture the imagination of the power brokers. He not only spoke all the languages of South Africa, he seemed to speak to the economic and political needs of the country, with its astonishing diversity, as well. There was a vacuum and he appeared to be the only player capable of filling it. *With Buthelezi and his ideas for a federal republic of South Africa, investment would be safe, and whites and blacks could be placated. Even his appeal to royalty, his professed loyalty to the King of the Zulus, Goodwill Zwelethini (also his nephew), impressed whites who sought modest change in the context of stability, and blacks, for whom royalty had always held a certain attraction as a dimension of African pride.


U.S. Policy in South Africa

But let’s get back to British hypocrisy and their denial about being benefactors of Apartheid. Will we see the British/EU propaganda machine passionately produce more films (ie Cry Freedom) and inspire more global protest initiatives against current Racism in Reverse and Genocide in Southern Africa?


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## JoziJoe (Mar 21, 2008)

JoziJoe said:


> *The White Afrikaners were not the architects of Apartheid, they were the perpetrators of Apartheid.*


correction:

The White Afrikaners were not the architects of Apartheid, they were the *perpetuators *of Apartheid.


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## DannyBoy (Apr 29, 2009)

Your post above said - 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
One of the most influential campaigners against the "Jew-imperialist design" in South Africa was John A. Hobson (1858-1940), a prominent journalist and economist.

In 1899 the Manchester Guardian sent him to South Africa to report first-hand for its readers on the situation there. During his three month investigation, Hobson became convinced that a small group of Jewish "Randlords" was essentially responsible for the strife and conflict.

In a Guardian article dispatched from Johannesburg just a few weeks before the outbreak of the war, he told readers of the influential liberal daily:

In Johannesburg the Boer population is a mere handful of officials and their families, some five thousand of the population; the rest is about evenly divided between white settlers, mostly from Great Britain, and the [native black] *******, who are everywhere in White Man's Africa the hewers of wood and the drawers of water.

The town is in some respects dominantly and even aggressively British, but British with a difference which it takes some little time to understand. That difference is due to the Jewish factor. If one takes the recent figures of the census, there appears to be less than seven thousand Jews in Johannesburg, but the experience of the street rapidly exposes this fallacy of figures. The shop fronts and business houses, the market place, the saloons, the "stoops" of the smart suburban houses and sufficient to convince one of the large presence of the chosen people. If any doubt remains, a walk outside the Exchange, where in the streets, "between the chains," the financial side of the gold business is transacted, will dispel it.

So far as wealth and power and even numbers are concerned Johannesburg is essentially a Jewish town. Most of these Jews figure as British subjects, though many are in fact German and Russian Jews who have come to Africa after a brief sojourn in England. The rich, rigorous, and energetic financial and commercial families are chiefly English Jews, not a few of whom here, as elsewhere, have Anglicised their names after true parasitic fashion. I lay stress on this fact because, though everyone knows the Jews are strong, their real strength here is much underestimated. Though figures are so misleading, it is worth while to mention that the directory of Johannesburg shows 68 Cohens against 21 Joneses and 53 Browns.

The Jews take little active part in the Outlander agitation; they let others do that sort of work. But since half of the land and nine-tenths of the wealth of the Transvaal claimed for the Outlander are chiefly theirs, they will be chief gainers by an settlement advantageous to the Outlander. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This kind of thinking about the Jews running the world and "Johannesburg" was rampant at the time (1899) that John Hobson journalised his Johannesburg visit. It's what people in Europe and Britain wanted to hear and it sold newspapers. It's what influenced the young Adolf Schicklgruber to persue a career in politics and what he discovered was THE way to gain votes for his Nationalist Socialist Worker Party, in a post war Germany. It is chronicled very well in a book called "The Politics of Hate: Anti-Semitism, History, and the Holocaust in Modern Europe".
(a highly recommended book by the way).

Britain didn't care then, and it doesn't care now what it did to other people in other countries (India, Palestine etc.). The Afrikaners did get and still are getting a raw deal, and it's an outright shame, but before 1948 the dirt poor Afrikaners were living side by side with the "Africans" and not in a GOOD way according to the Afrikaner elders (Church leaders and people higher up in the Afrikaner hierarchy). 

White Afrikaner children ran around with snotty noses, barefoot playing in the bush with their neighbours who happened to be other dirt poor blacks. There was a lot of racial mixing. For the sake of not losing the Afrikaner as a nation (and I don't have the links to this information anymore, you can google it) the elders decided that if they could rule the country, they would impliment a seperate development policy. 
There was no hatred against the black man at that time by the Afrikaner, (pre 1948), it was solely to ensure that the Afrikaner would survive as a people. 
Once in power however, due to corruption and greed the seperate development policies became nasty. 

The Afrikaner however also attempted to seperate himself from other people living in South Africa at the time, such as the English, Jews, Portuguese, Chinese and Indians. Even in 1985 an Afrikaans girl from a "good family" marrying a "nice guy from Joburg" was frowned upon. God forbid if that "nice guy from Joburg happened to be Harry Cohen or the son of the local Rabbi". 

The point is that a lot of people started seeing the Afrikaner as EXCLUSIVISTS, who did not want to mingle or associate with other people. This caused immense resentment amongst many of the English speaking South Africans. More so after the second world war when people learned or remembered that many amongst the Afrikaans volk had been pro-Germany, even though South Africa had been an ally of Britain. 

Also from your email above -
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The rich, rigorous, and energetic financial and commercial families are chiefly English Jews, not a few of whom here, as elsewhere, have Anglicised their names after true parasitic fashion. I lay stress on this fact because, though everyone knows the Jews are strong, their real strength here is much underestimated.---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Once again, "Anglicised names after true PARASITIC fashion" is typical of the thinking at the time. One only needs to read Henry Fords book "The International Jew" or Mein Kampf to confirm this.

From your posts, you appear to be very PRO Afrikaner, for whatever reason, and that is not a bad thing. As mentioned Seperate Development was a policy that they used to ensure the survival of their people. Does that make them evil,......No, it's what they thought was best for the Afrikaner at the time. It brought the Afrikaans people back into the modern world. They could get good jobs (mostly in the Government service), good schooling and leave the tent camps that many of them were living in at the time. 

The British were an Empire at the time, so arrogance was the order of the day. Yes, they will never admit their crimes, but the colonies have come back to haunt them and they are paying dearly with massive third world immigration, Sharia Law being practised in their back yard, religious extremists born in Britain who hate and want to destroy the British way of life. Things don't bode well for the future of Britain (England). 

As for the Jews, many do pay dearly for their crimes (Maddof comes to mind as well as others associated with the Enron and Worldcom companies that went bust), but here again to scapegoat an entire people for the crimes of a few is also insane, but sadly also the accepted order of the day.

Life Happens, people and especially people in power make mistakes.


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## Daxk (Jan 20, 2008)

excellent post. dannyboy.


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## JoziJoe (Mar 21, 2008)

DannyBoy said:


> Y
> This kind of thinking about the Jews running the world and "Johannesburg" was rampant at the time (1899) that John Hobson journalised his Johannesburg visit. It's what people in Europe and Britain wanted to hear and it sold newspapers. It's what influenced the young Adolf Schicklgruber to persue a career in politics and what he discovered was THE way to gain votes for his Nationalist Socialist Worker Party, in a post war Germany. It is chronicled very well in a book called "The Politics of Hate: Anti-Semitism, History, and the Holocaust in Modern Europe".
> (a highly recommended book by the way).
> 
> .


I don’t know whether the perception that Jews are running the world or, for that matter, Johannesburg, was in the past or present. There certainly seems to be a lot of powerful groups, world bankers and financiers, positioned far above the public face or power of politicians, that have dramatic impact on human existance on the planet. Whether they are Jewish or not is not really the point. (not mine anyway).

It is however a fact that Johannesburg, in it’s heyday, had a large representation of Jewish, British and Afrikaners as a priviledged elite. Johannesburg Northern Suburbs such as Berea, Yeoville, Killarney, Houghton, Rosebank, Westcliffe strongly represented wealthy Jewish families. Johannesburg (known comically as “Jewberg” at one stage) had an “English” image, whilst Roodepoort, Krugersdorp and Pretoria were the Afrikaner outposts.



> The Afrikaner however also attempted to seperate himself from other people living in South Africa at the time, such as the English, Jews, Portuguese, Chinese and Indians. Even in 1985 an Afrikaans girl from a "good family" marrying a "nice guy from Joburg" was frowned upon. God forbid if that "nice guy from Joburg happened to be Harry Cohen or the son of the local Rabbi".
> 
> The point is that a lot of people started seeing the Afrikaner as EXCLUSIVISTS, who did not want to mingle or associate with other people. This caused immense resentment amongst many of the English speaking South Africans.



Correct, the extremely conservative Afrikaans families, much like the orthodox Jews, frowned upon association, marriage or accepting values of unfamiliar entities.

But good ‘ol hollywood style romances between SA Barbie Doll Anneline Kriel and Sol Kerzner or the controversial Jani Allan, who truly swung the pendulum between being married to Jewish businessman, Gordon Schachat and having an affair with Neo Nazi Eugene Terreblanche proved that money can cross just about any barriers.



> More so after the second world war when people learned or remembered that many amongst the Afrikaans volk had been pro-Germany, even though South Africa had been an ally of Britain.


Many Afrikaner families and their descendants, who suffered the injustices of Kitchener’s schorched earth policy and in rememberance of thousands of Afrikaners who died horribly in the Boer War concentration camps, were *openly anti British.* Whether that influenced their pro German attitude I don’t know. Even in more modern South African times, there was always rivalry between the Afrikaners and the English in South Africa. 



> From your posts, you appear to be very PRO Afrikaner, for whatever reason, and that is not a bad thing. As mentioned Seperate Development was a policy that they used to ensure the survival of their people. Does that make them evil,......No, it's what they thought was best for the Afrikaner at the time.



Yes, during my search of *credible knowledge* (not necessarily googled textbook facts) to try and inform a totally, ignorant of their own colonial history and catastrophies, British audience, I surprised myself at almost wanting to defend the Afrikaner, something that conflicts totally with my personal and family convictions. I admit, I was in unfamiliar waters. And whilst I agree that the preservation of one’s own culture is not evil or incorrect, I think South Africa has taught us the lesson that it cannot be done at the exploitation, disrespect for or possible extermination of other cultures.

You on the other hand appear to be very PRO Jewish, which is also not a bad thing. Dr Zuma also thinks it is kiss and make up time, he has issued them a personal invitation to return.


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## JoziJoe (Mar 21, 2008)

Daxk said:


> excellent post. dannyboy.


There you go Dannyboy, a pat on the back of someone you recently irritated the hell out of.

Daxk, I am very surprised to see you hanging out on a thread that is not really your "cup of tea" (for lack of an equivalent Irish expression). This thread is about people's perceptions, personal insight and interpretations of daily life in South Africa and specifically Johannesburg, emotional IQ, that sort of thing.

Very little googled, textbook facts here I'm afraid.


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## Daxk (Jan 20, 2008)

This thread is about people's perceptions, personal insight and interpretations of daily life in South Africa and specifically Johannesburg, emotional IQ, that sort of thing.

Very little googled, textbook facts here I'm afraid. "

Actually,it appears to be your monologue.
but as I enjoy reading anyway, i'm hoping for something that might strike a chord or give me some new insight.
Nothing yet,I'm afraid. but Dannyboys post was good.


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## JoziJoe (Mar 21, 2008)

Daxk said:


> but as I enjoy reading anyway, i'm hoping for something that might strike a chord or give me some new insight.
> Nothing yet,I'm afraid.


Perhaps that is because you are not the intended audience, it's like watching a movie not intended for your age group.

And I agree, Danny made some* excellent points,* *this one in particular is a stunner!*. A point, strongly contested by your comrade, Halo. 

Dannyboy:


> The British were an Empire at the time, so arrogance was the order of the day. Yes, they will never admit their crimes,* but the colonies have come back to haunt them and they are paying dearly with massive third world immigration, Sharia Law being practised in their back yard, religious extremists born in Britain who hate and want to destroy the British way of life. Things don't bode well for the future of Britain (England).*


That explains/confirms why the British form the *LARGEST group of immigrants* in some of their ex colonies, especially New Zealand and Australia! Larger than any Asian Immigration group, now that is really interesting! And, contrary to popular belief, their presence in South Africa is on the rise, not on the decline (I've lost the link to that article unfortunately) but can vouch for the conspicious British Immigration to NZ and Australia. 



> Actually,it appears to be your monologue.


Yes, with the British being one of the largest immigration groups in the world, their presence on Expat Forums will reflect same, and this particular subject matter will not be considered easy dialogue.

Seeing that you love reading Daxk, it's time to brush up a little on the current rising, working, black middle class earning good money these days in SA, well nurtured by dr Zuma. A little climate Meteorology wouldn't go amiss either, comparing climates from a sunny, short wintered South Africa to bleak and rainy Ireland just don't gel.


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## DannyBoy (Apr 29, 2009)

JoziJoe said:


> I don’t know whether the perception that Jews are running the world or, for that matter, Johannesburg, was in the past or present. There certainly seems to be a lot of powerful groups, world bankers and financiers, positioned far above the public face or power of politicians, that have dramatic impact on human existance on the planet.


Hello

well here's the thing, why the specific mention to Bankers? (with a subtle hint to JEWISH Bankers.

Remember a while back when Deputy Defense Secretary Paul D. Wolfowitz, a key architect of the Iraq war, was nominated by George Bush as head of the World Bank. Well the "white Supremist" groups in the U.S had a field day. Germans were polled on the streets of Hamburg and many said that they were "uncomfortable" having Wolfowitz in such a powerful position. Even the right wing moslem bunch were OUTRAGED by the appointment of PRO-ISRAELI Wolfowitz. The fact that the man could do the job was besides the point. Who he WAS, was more important than his ability or lack thereof. 

Happily for all these folks, Wolfawitz didn't last long, and his departure convinced even more people on the planet that "those greedy and deceitful people" truly can't be trusted.

But why stop at the power of Jewish bankers.
Lets look further afield to other "areas of influence" to PROVE that there really is a WORLD CONSPIRACY by the Jews to take over the world.

Lets look at Music:
1) Leonard Bernstein in Classical music, George Gershwin, Isaac Stern, Yitzhak Perlman., not to mention all the violinists from Israel overrunning the planet. 

2) In Modern Music, why, here we have - Burt Bacharach, Neil Diamond, Bob Dylan, Art Garfunkel, Neil Sedaka, Paul Simon, Bruce Springsteen, 3 of the members from KISS, Barbara Streisand, Robbie Robertson, Lou Reed, Leonard Cohen, all of the Beastie Boys, Van Halen: lead singer/founder David Lee Roth, Carole King, Carly Simon, Dire Straits: Mark Knopfler, Randy Newman, Kenny G, Lenny Kravitz, Andrew Dice Clay, Janis Ian, Barry Manilow, Bette Midler, Arlo Guthrie, Dave Bromberg, Billy Joel, Wallflowers: Jakob Dylan, Sha Na Na: Ritchie Joffe, Elliot Cahn, John "Bowser" Baumann, Manfred Mann, T Rex: Marc Bolan, Neil Sedaka - 
It's an outrage,....how are non-jews supposed to compete with THIS BUNCH and get anywhere in the music industry?

And don't get me started on Jewish movie stars,.....now there's another WORLD CONSPIRACY in action - 

Barbara Stresiand, David Arquette, Hank Azaria, 
Matthew Broderick, Mel Brooks, George Burns, Billy Crystal, Tony Curtis, Rodney Dangerfield, Daniel Day-Lewis, Kirk Douglas, Michael Douglas, Robert DowneyJr., Richard Dreyfuss, David Duchovny, Peter Falk, Elliott Gould, Cary Grant, Harrison Ford, Goldie Hawn, Dustin Hoffman, Bette Midler, William Shatner, Alicia Silverstone, Ben Stiller.

What about Jewish Democrats currently IN POWER in the U.S -
Senator Barbara Boxer (California)
Senator Benjamin Cardin (Maryland)
Senator Russ Feingold (Wisconsin)
Senator Al Franken (Minnesota)
Senator Dianne Feinstein (California)
Senator Herb Kohl (Wisconsin)
Senator Frank Lautenberg (New Jersey)
Senator Joe Lieberman (Connecticut) (Independent)
Senator Carl Levin (Michigan)
Senator Bernard Sanders (Vermont) (Independent)
Senator Charles Schumer (New York)
Senator Arlen Specter (Senator, Pennsylvania)
Senator Ron Wyden (Oregon)

Man, this is scary stuff.

So in view of this, it would appear that the Jews are indeed running the world.

Global Warming, the current Economic meltdown, problems in Zimbabwe and South Africa, war in Iraq and Afghanistan and Sudan, drug cartels in South America, H1N1 and AIDS, heck even the Ebola Virus, diversity and racial mixing, liberalism, rapid growth of Islam in Africa and parts of Asia, uncontrollable non-white immigration to Europe, birth rates in third world countries, inability to find a cure for cancer, wasting money looking for water on Mars, Nuclear proliferation, ..........
ALL can be blamed on ONE and ONLY one group of people,.....come on,...say it isn't so. Yes,....it's them parasites. They did it.

Man I go down on my knees every Sunday in church and I thank the Good Lord that I'm not one of them....Oh My,.....I just realised,....................even the Good Lord,...when he visited the planet,........HE WAS "ONE OF THEM" !!!!!!!!!!!!.

Man, you just can't win.

Move on Jozi,.....you know as well as I do that the Jewish World Domination card is an old one that's been played so many times it's getting kinda tatty.

Just live your life happily with the people that you love and don't get distracted by things that don't matter. when you're on your deathbed thinking about what might have been, none of this B/S matters anyway.


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## Halo (May 8, 2008)

DannyBoy said:


> Just live your life happily with the people that you love and don't get distracted by things that don't matter. when you're on your deathbed thinking about what might have been, none of this B/S matters anyway.


How about

Nobel facts?

The Global Jewish population is approximately 14,000,000 or about 0.02% of the world population.

They received the following Nobel Prizes:

Literature:
1910 - Paul Heyse
1927 - Henri Bergson
1958 - Boris Pasternak
1966 - Shmuel Yosef Agnon
1966 - Nelly Sachs
1976 - Saul Bellow
1978 - Isaac Bashevis Singer
1981 - Elias Canetti
1987 - Joseph Brodsky 1991 - Nadine Gordimer World

Peace:
1911 - Alfred Fried
1911 - Tobias Michael Carel Asser
1968 - Rene Cassin
1973 - Henry Kissinger
1978 - Menachem Begin
1986 - Elie Wiesel
1994 - Shimon Peres
1994 - Yitzhak Rabin

Physics:
1905 - Adolph Von Baeyer
1906 - Henri Moissan
1910 - Otto Wallach
1915 - Richard Willstaetter
1918 - Fritz Haber
1943 - George Charles de Hevesy
1961 - Melvin Calvin
1962 - Max Ferdinand Perutz
1972 - William Howard Stein
1977 - Ilya Prigogine
1979 - Herbert Charle s Brown
1980 - Paul Berg
1980 - Walter Gilbert
1981 - Roald Hoffmann
1982 - Aaron Klug
1985 - Albert A. Hauptman
1985 - Jerome Karle
1986 - Dudley R. Herschbach
1988 - Robert Huber
1989 - Sidney Altman
1992 - Rudolph Marcus
2000 - Alan J. Heeger

Economics:
1970 - Paul Anthony Samuelson
1971 - Simon Kuznets
1972 - Kenneth Joseph Arrow
1975 - Leonid Kantorovich
1976 -! Milton Friedman
1978 - Herbert A. Simon
1980 - Lawrence Robert Klein
1985 - Franco Modigliani
1987 - Robert M. Solow
1990 - Harry Markowitz
1990 - Merton Miller
1992 - Gary Becker
1993 - Robert Fogel

Medicine:
1908 - Elie Metchnikoff
1908 - Paul Erlich
1914 - Robert Barany
1922 - Otto Meyerhof
1930 - Karl Landsteiner
1931 - Otto Warburg
1936 - Otto Loewi
1944 - Joseph Erlanger
1944 - Herbert Spencer Gasser
1945 - Ernst Boris Chain
1946 - Hermann Joseph Muller
1950 - Tadeus Reichstein
1952 - Selman Abraham Waksman
1953 - Hans Krebs
1953 - Fritz Albert Lipmann
1958 - Joshua Lederberg
1959 - Arthur Kornberg
1964 - Konrad Bloch
1965 - Francois Jacob
1965 - Andre Lwoff
1967 - George Wald
1968 - Marshall W. Nirenberg
1969 - Salvador Luria
1970 - Julius Axelrod
1970 - Sir Bernard Katz
1972 - Gerald Maurice Edelman
1975 - Howard Martin Temin
1976 - Baruch S. Blumberg
1977 - Roselyn Sussman Yalow
1978 - Daniel Nathans
1980 - Baruj Benacerraf
1984 - Cesar Milstein
1985 - Michael Stuart Brown
1985 - Joseph L. Goldstein 1986 - Stanley Cohen [& Rita Levi-Montalcini]
1988 - Gertrude Elion
1989 - Harold Varmus
1991 - Erwin Neher
1991 - Bert Sakmann
1993 - Richard J. Roberts
1993 - Phillip Sharp
1994 - Alfred Gilman
1995 - Edward B. Lewis

Physics:
1907 - Albert Abraham Michelson
1908 - Gabriel Lippmann
1921 - Albert Einstein
1922 - Niels Bohr
1925 - James Franck
1925 - Gustav Hertz
1943 - Gustav Stern
1944 - Isidor Issac Rabi
1952 - Felix Bloch
1954 - Max Born
1958 - Igor Tamm
1959 - Emilio Segre
1960 - Donald A. Glaser
1961 - Robert Hofstadter
1962 - Lev Davidovich Landau
1965 - Richard Phillips Feynman
1965 - Julian Schwinger
1969 - Murray Gell-Mann
1971 - Dennis Gabor
1973 - Brian David Josephson
1975 - Benjamin Mottleson
1976 - Burton Richter
1978 - Arno Allan Penzias
1978 - Peter L Kapitza
1979 - Stephen Weinberg
1979 - Sheldon Glashow
1988 - Leon Lederman
1988 - Melvin Schwartz
1988 - Jack Steinberger
1990 - Jerome Friedman
1995 - Martin Perl


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## JoziJoe (Mar 21, 2008)

DannyBoy said:


> ALL can be blamed on ONE and ONLY one group of people,.....come on,...say it isn't so. Yes,....it's them parasites. They did it.


My! Poor little 'ol me just asking questions, I seem to have triggered an avalanche!

With such an impressive curriculum vitae of Jewish achievement you both supplied, are you surprised that Jacob Zuma is on bended knee begging them to return to South Africa and enrich the SA gene pool? The phrase *return *in this particular instance is very significant as it actually *proves their impressive presence as major benefactors of Apartheid South Africa was not a figment of South African conspiracy imagination! * 

Furthermore, it also indicates that their impact on Apartheid South Africa was so dramatic that their absence is unbearable, especially those that fought so hard for the release of Mandela and then, in true soap opera style, a curious twist of fate, (the Hollywood factor), fled the country in their thousands just before his release! (somehow bypassing the extremely strict SA Exchange Control Regulations).

Please bring back that clever ambiguity into our gene pool, share it with us, teach us how. Renegades and Mavericks are not a concern anymore. White Afrikaner Farmer Ethnic cleansing, brutal slaying of Zimbabwean refugees and Aids will take care of all the unwanted elements still hanging on for dear life in that cesspool.

The big question of course is, are they willing to share? Never really been a strong point with this particular group of the priviledged white Apartheid elite. (strongly reminiscent of your point regarding the resentment caused by white Afrikaners being seen as *exclusivists*).

Two good looking, single, jewish sisters living in fashionable (at the time), Berea, Johannesburg apartments, their choice of marriage partners severely marginalized by their strict, rich Jewish father. Thou shalt marry thy own kind. They spent their weekends at Jewish single clubs, trying their best to mingle and be suited with the fragile unavailability of elligible Jewish men in their own age group. Shopping in Sandton, coffee shops in Hyde Park, Killarney, Cyrildene, Greenside. Lorraine was in her early forties, when, thank goodness, Manny came into her life and took her off the shelf but Lara, alas, she grew to be an old maid condemned to having affairs with her non Jewish lovers (I think they called them bagels?), waiting for the old man to kick the bucket.

They form such a small part of the talented, global population. By no means as expendable as the rest. whose sheer numbers send them all over the world, hunting for new homelands and recognition of their talents, as their own countries are in the process of being destroyed for one reason or another, a fate even the British have to face these days. Africa is being destroyed by stupid Africans you know, it has nothing to do with resource wars and exploitation. Who knows, maybe Africa has mass weapons of destruction?

Scary stuff? You forgot to include the Nobel prize for Peace List! Gasp! Judging by the 2009 appointment, it seems the criteria to receive the prize no longer includes proving ability first. And as for Henry Kissinger, Oi vei!

• 2009 - Barack Obama 
• 2008 - Martti Ahtisaari 
• 2007 - Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, Al Gore 
• 2006 - Muhammad Yunus, Grameen Bank 
• 2005 - International Atomic Energy Agency, Mohamed ElBaradei 
• 2004 - Wangari Maathai 
• 2003 - Shirin Ebadi 
• 2002 - Jimmy Carter 
• 2001 - United Nations, Kofi Annan 
• 2000 - Kim Dae-jung 
• 1999 - Médecins Sans Frontières 
• 1998 - John Hume, David Trimble 
• 1997 - International Campaign to Ban Landmines, Jody Williams 
• 1996 - Carlos Filipe Ximenes Belo, José Ramos-Horta 
• 1995 - Joseph Rotblat, Pugwash Conferences on Science and World Affairs 
• 1994 - Yasser Arafat, Shimon Peres, Yitzhak Rabin 
• 1993 - Nelson Mandela, F.W. de Klerk 
• 1992 - Rigoberta Menchú Tum 
• 1991 - Aung San Suu Kyi 
• 1990 - Mikhail Gorbachev 
• 1989 - The 14th Dalai Lama 
• 1988 - United Nations Peacekeeping Forces 
• 1987 - Oscar Arias Sánchez 
• 1986 - Elie Wiesel 
• 1985 - International Physicians for the Prevention of Nuclear War 
• 1984 - Desmond Tutu 
• 1983 - Lech Walesa 
• 1982 - Alva Myrdal, Alfonso García Robles 
• 1981 - Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees 
• 1980 - Adolfo Pérez Esquivel 
• 1979 - Mother Teresa 
• 1978 - Anwar al-Sadat, Menachem Begin 
• 1977 - Amnesty International 
• 1976 - Betty Williams, Mairead Corrigan 
• 1975 - Andrei Sakharov 
• 1974 - Seán MacBride, Eisaku Sato 
• 1973 - Henry Kissinger, Le Duc Tho





DannyBoy said:


> Man I go down on my knees every Sunday in church and I thank the Good Lord that I'm not one of them....Oh My,.....I just realised,....................even the Good Lord,...when he visited the planet,........HE WAS "ONE OF THEM" !!!!!!!!!!!!.



Yes, how can you forget, he was crowned KING OF THE JEWS when they crucified him!



DannyBoy said:


> Man, you just can't win.
> 
> Move on Jozi,.....you know as well as I do that the Jewish World Domination card is an old one that's been played so many times it's getting kinda tatty.
> 
> Just live your life happily with the people that you love and don't get distracted by things that don't matter. when you're on your deathbed thinking about what might have been, none of this B/S matters anyway.



In other words, sweep it under the carpet, then it’s out of sight, never mind the ambiguity, or else what, face cement boots or yet another mind boggling assassination?


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

This has got to be the most boring thread I've ever red on the forum!!? Keep it clean and free from personal or racial insults wont you, otherwise I'll have to read thru it again, in fact if I've missed any already, I'm sorry, I fell asleep half way thru!! 
Jo xxx


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## Stevan (Jun 30, 2009)

Anybody got any pictures of funny shaped vegtables or cute animals to keep ur spainish visitores amused. 

:focus:


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Stevan said:


> Anybody got any pictures of funny shaped vegtables or cute animals to keep ur spainish visitores amused.
> 
> :focus:


cheeky b*****!!!!!!!! 

just letting you all know that you're being moderated .... by a dumb blonde  


Jo xxxx


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## Stevan (Jun 30, 2009)

jojo said:


> cheeky b*****!!!!!!!!
> 
> just letting you all know that you're being moderated .... by a dumb blonde
> 
> ...


Please accept my most humble apologies, never been moderated before but i will try anything once.


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## JoziJoe (Mar 21, 2008)

Stevan said:


> Anybody got any pictures of funny shaped vegtables or cute animals to keep ur spainish visitores amused.
> 
> :focus:


Apologies JoJo, I know the politics of other countries, especially the complex, corrupt politics of African countries, can be boring.

The only pics I am able to supply are these:


SAJBD Welcome


I see the SAJBD has also condemned the Brandon Huntley Canadian refugee case. Seems they don't regard BEE as a form of racism against SA whites/non blacks. 

SAJBD rejects portrayal of SA as being anti-white


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## DannyBoy (Apr 29, 2009)

JoziJoe said:


> I see the SAJBD has also condemned the Brandon Huntley Canadian refugee case. Seems they don't regard BEE as a form of racism against SA whites/non blacks.
> 
> SAJBD rejects portrayal of SA as being anti-white


Well Jozi, when you're RIGHT, you're RIGHT.
I can't fathom why these folk would get involved with stuff like that. I can't see that it's any of their business. They should stick to badmouthing Goldstone for his Gaza report. I guess everyone wants to appease the "New President" (Zuma).
Maybe they want to suck up to him to stay in his good books.

The link says - "The SAJBD believes that South Africa is a country that goes to extraordinary lengths to ensure justice and equality for every sector of its diverse population.
For further comment, contact Zev Krengel (082 557 9681) or Wendy Kahn (083
444 3625)"

EXTRAORDINARY LENGTHS and yet the crime is still through the stratosphere.

Who knows. Not Me.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

I'm trying not to get involved in the politics of the thread cos I dont understand them, nor do I need to (hense my point about it being boring - my way of staying out of it!!) I'm just trying to stop the thread from becoming full of personal attack which are nowt to do with anything!

You guys, carry on discussing your views and opinions, cos thats what forums are all about "opinions"!!!!

I just pop in every now and again to make sure you're all behaving LOL

Jo xxxx


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## JoziJoe (Mar 21, 2008)

jojo said:


> I'm trying not to get involved in the politics of the thread cos I dont understand them, nor do I need to (hense my point about it being boring - my way of staying out of it!!) I'm just trying to stop the thread from becoming full of personal attack which are nowt to do with anything!
> 
> *You guys, carry on discussing your views and opinions, cos thats what forums are all about "opinions"!!!!*
> 
> ...


Ditto JoJo!


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## JoziJoe (Mar 21, 2008)

DannyBoy said:


> Well Jozi, when you're RIGHT, you're RIGHT.
> I can't fathom why these folk would get involved with stuff like that. I can't see that it's any of their business. They should stick to badmouthing Goldstone for his Gaza report. I guess everyone wants to appease the "New President" (Zuma).
> Maybe they want to suck up to him to stay in his good books.
> 
> ...



You don’t know how much I actually *want to be WRONG *about all this *BS *Danny! If I were wrong it would mean I could stop rolling the dice about going home, just buy that plane ticket and land in a truly free South Africa (You know, the one Mandela promised).

Echoing JoJo, the following is just my humble opinion:

Whether you are a South African Jew, Brit (ahem, the ones that actually admit to being benefactors of apartheid SA), Afrikaner ******, Blackie, Asian, Coloured, whatever. *We all know that South Africa is NOT free. *

Lara and Lorraine, the 2 good looking Jewish sisters, actually exist, I met them whilst working for “Uncle Harry” in downtown Marshalltown, Johannesburg. They were not “evil jews”, they also voted for Mandela because they truly believed what he promised. (especially Lara, because the non jewish man of her dreams also happened to be “not quite white”). So this is *not *an essay of conspiracy against Jews.

At the time, we all thought working for “Uncle Harry” was an honour, a man so openly outspoken against Apartheid, he was the “saviour” and the Afrikaner was the “big bad enemy”.

But working so closely in the areas of accountancy, media, patents and other legal issues, as we did, brought about a paradigm shift. Incidents that left us stunned about the power of Uncle Harry and his “ability” to manipulate SA politics and finance. 

Lara and Lorraine, both still in SA, even recently speculated that “Mandela was orchestrated” because Uncle Harry’s operations in Southern Africa was drawing *just too much attention* under “white rule”. That is why many people believe that all that has changed in SA is that a “black elite” has replaced the previous “white elite”, it’s just much less hassle and easier to manipulate. 

The true victims of Apartheid, the poorest of the poor, still without electricity and proper nutrition in those black townships created *under British Colonial Rule*, has seen *no change.* The focus is now on crime and Aids, which *draws a lot less international attention* than openly declared Racism. Uncle Harry’s operations is now listed on the London Stock Exchange and for him, it’s business as usual in Southern Africa.

Call us suspicious, conspiracy theorists, whatever you like. As I said before, I would love to be proven WRONG, because then I can go home and look for a job based on my abilities, not my colour. (sounds just like Apartheid SA, does it not?)


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## Daxk (Jan 20, 2008)

JoziJoe, If you had read what the very people you have attacked have written on other threads you would have seen that by and large, we are all singing from the same hymn sheet regarding lack of service delivery and performance.
wether it is a conspiracy by Big Business I have no idea.
But to date you have attacked Brits, Jews, Afrikaners and Black South Africans.
Its taken three pages to come down to the nitty gritty.
That Anglo American had the power to influence .
And that most of the Corporates moved offices out of SA in case they were Nationalised.
I thought that Nicky and Gordon had taken themselves out of Anglo and de Beers when they sold out to a BEE Consortium?
AFIK, they still hold majority of CSO?
As to power, Anton Rupert and John Schlesinger wielded as much and used it the same way.
I refer to the meetings in Lusaka,Zurich and England.

Whatever, you want to figure its the Illuminati, go ahead.


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## JoziJoe (Mar 21, 2008)

Predictably, I was expecting a response from the social police on this Forum (kudos to you Chinasings)



Daxk said:


> JoziJoe, If you had read what the very people you have attacked have written on other threads you would have seen that by and large, we are all singing from the same hymn sheet regarding lack of service delivery and performance.


We may all sing from the same hymn sheet but we serve different Masters Daxk, I knew that the day you called Ghandi a racist!



Daxk said:


> wether it is a conspiracy by Big Business I have no idea.


Thank you God, there is something that the great Daxk admits he does not know!
But when I previously suggested something along these lines, you and your comrade Halo condemned and tried to put me in the "thingy" box, remember, quick change of mindset there Daxk? 



Daxk said:


> But to date you have attacked Brits, Jews, Afrikaners and Black South Africans.
> Its taken three pages to come down to the nitty gritty.
> That Anglo American had the power to influence .


And your point is? Are you paying for the Server Storage Space of this Forum?
Do you dictate how I will express myself?



Daxk said:


> And that most of the Corporates moved offices out of SA in case they were Nationalised.
> I thought that Nicky and Gordon had taken themselves out of Anglo and de Beers when they sold out to a BEE Consortium?
> AFIK, they still hold majority of CSO?
> As to power, Anton Rupert and John Schlesinger wielded as much and used it the same way.
> I refer to the meetings in Lusaka,Zurich and England.


You should know the name of the game in SA by now Daxk, change of name/sellout does not necessarily equate change of power. eg Infoplan is still alive and well in SA, living under a BEE name. I have not followed Uncle Harry & Son's recent footprints, so I really don't know. 




Daxk said:


> Whatever, you want to figure its the Illuminati, go ahead.


That is your *spaced out* terminology that you try to box me in with Daxk, I truly don't know much about them and I don't have time to sit and read all day like you do, I have merely shared my very OWN experiences regarding Uncle Harry.

And as for Anton Rupert, Uncle Harry had many eager beavers dining at his table, including Afrikaner politicians like Voster, Pik Botha. Lucrative career choices! For what it is worth, it is also speculated that those with their own ideas, that did not want to dine at the table, received, amongst other nasties, extremely bad press reports!

Keep following those dots Daxk, you have the time and you are so good at it, who knows, you might even spot the umbilical cord all the way to the financial heart of Mother Britain. 

Illuminati? I must admit, as I watched a forensic team scrape skull and blood fragments off the ceiling in the office of a legal advisor who worked in downtown Marshalltown, who had supposedly committed suicide, I looked at Uncle Harry's smiling, autographed picture on the wall (he had one in every office of that building you know) and the word..... Maffia...... came to mind....
that's all.


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## Daxk (Jan 20, 2008)

Jozi Joe, you are off on so many tangents its not possible to have a coherent discussion with you.
If I recall, I commented on Ghandi being a racist by todays standards because someone had held him to be a shining example of a Human rights fighter.
whatever.


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## Halo (May 8, 2008)

Daxk said:


> Jozi Joe, you are off on so many tangents its not possible to have a coherent discussion with you.
> If I recall, I commented on Ghandi being a racist by todays standards because someone had held him to be a shining example of a Human rights fighter.
> whatever.


I am of the opinion the Jozi is not exactly sure what he believes..... Perhaps as mentioned before he just has an axe to grind. As for Ghandi etc, things change - Perhaps Jozi need to realise that ALL cultures/civilizations had oppressors and the oppressed in some shape or form.


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## JoziJoe (Mar 21, 2008)

Halo said:


> I am of the opinion the Jozi is not exactly sure what he believes..... Perhaps as mentioned before he just has an axe to grind. As for Ghandi etc, things change - Perhaps Jozi need to realise that ALL cultures/civilizations had oppressors and the oppressed in some shape or form.


And I am of the opinion that neither Daxk or his sidekick *have a clue *what the philosophies of Ghandi means. Let us not forget that Ghandi's protest started *against British racist conduct * in South Africa!



> *You must be the change you wish to see in the world.*
> 
> It may be long before the law of love will be recognized in international affairs.
> 
> ...


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## Halo (May 8, 2008)

JoziJoe said:


> And I am of the opinion that neither Daxk or his sidekick *have a clue *what the philosophies of Ghandi means. Let us not forget that Ghandi's protest started *against British racist conduct * in South Africa!


At least its yours.....
Please don't forget which country was the FIRST to abolish slavery...... :spit:

Have you got Brit envy or something?


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## JoziJoe (Mar 21, 2008)

Halo said:


> At least its yours.....
> Please don't forget which country was the FIRST to abolish slavery...... :spit:


You're running out of arguments Halo, you tried that one before and I've told you:

You abolished slave trade and then replaced it with CHEAP BLACK LABOUR in Southern Africa! Wow, what an accomplishment.:clap2:

Your path of destruction in Southern Africa started with CECIL RHODES who lies buried in Zimbabwe, who set the stage for the Oppenheimer dynasty to exploit Southern Africa for it's mineral resources! And nothing has changed, you are still calling the 'shots' in Southern Africa under manipulated Black Governments. Mugabe studied at Oxford University, is that where you taught him his "tricks"? 



Halo said:


> Have you got Brit envy or something?


I think *you are the one*, like many of your compatriots, who has a problem with South Africans and even Australians!



Halo said:


> Perth.... Avoid the South Africans





Halo said:


> Humid up north and WAY WAY to many South Africans who speak the TAAL in Perth..... And its a DORP of note far away from anything that even resembles culture.
> 
> LESSON 1: Weather is not everything





Halo said:


> LOL, I spend 20 years in SA....
> Depends - if you actually like South Africans - then Perth is the place
> 
> BOTTOM LINE - OZ is SA without the problems.


The Brits are immigrating all over the world these days, they are all over our countries. Why? Why don't you go home and FIX your own problems. That's the question you keep asking South Africans when you encounter them. It's payback time you know....(grimace)

Why don't you follow your own advice and go home and fix your problems, or is it payback time for you too? It it Karmic law at play here?



Halo said:


> Have you got Brit envy or something?





> I will let Ghandi answer that one :
> 
> Mahatma Gandhi, when asked what he thought of Western civilization
> Indian political and spiritual leader (1869 - 1948)
> ...


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## zambezi.king (Oct 8, 2009)

This is my first post on the forum so I will jump right in with both feet and probably insult everyone 

I am a Zambian - Rhodesian - South African with distant Britsh and "Afrikaaner" ancestry. I have seen most of what Africa has to offer and where large chunks of the blame, IMHO, could be placed.

The west is by and large the purpetrators of mess as well as the creators. To blame the Jews for ANY of the problems is not only short sighted but misses the point entirely. Yes they profited from apartheid, also way before, simply because the Jewish people are superb businessmen. The saw the potential way before anyone else and were prepared to eek out a living in small shops and retail outlets (as many still do worldwide). All that rubbish at the start of the thread about the disproportionate amount of Jewish shops etc and "the Jews taking over" etc just smacked of anti-semitism and the usual propaganda put out by neo-nazi / Islamist/pro-arab, anti Jew small minded yahoos across the globe that feel depressed with their own lives... ah, shame! Get over it!

In South Africa we currently have zero, nil, nada, people who supported or benefitted from apartheid... just ask anyone they all condemn apartheid, were all pro "freedom" and all on the "right" side of the arguement. COMPLETE BS!!
Sorry JoziJo but you condemn the Jews (Oppenheimers etc) for leaving but where are you at the moment (you say you want to come back)? If I had built up a huge fortune I too would have moved it out to prevent it being nationalised as has happened in every (?) newly independant country on the continent. (Just as an aside my uncle was the farm manager on Gwamanyanka farm outside Bulawayo. This farm belonged to Nikki oppenheimer. He kept the farm going and employed hundreds of staff even with thousands of sqatters on the property and no hunting and very little cattle left. If he was the "typical" Jew he would have dumped the losing asset years before. He actually lost millions in Zimbabwe. If he/they, the Jews, were really in control they Zimbabwe situation would have been sorted out long ago.

If you want to blame someone for the shambles in South Africa's early years and the start of apartheid and the resentment between the Afrikaaner and the English then look to Britian. Yes they were brutal and arrogant and they are now paying for it.

If you want to know who supported the apartheid regime in is quite simply everybody. Britian and the States on one side and Russia and China on the other. They all prospered from the turmoil and are reaping even bigger benefits now. As an example where else in the world can you get a producing copper mine and associated infrastructure for $50 million except in Zambia. They have beggered the country to the point that they think the west is doing them a favour by buying the mines. And China, well they are a little more subtle about thier inroads into Africa. They too buy the minerals but also put up the infrastructure such as roads etc... only problem it is all usually substandard and thereafter the only import Chinese for employment.

Blame who you all want but I don't think the Jews are anywhere near the top of the list.:boxing:

Or have I missed the point completely!


----------



## Daxk (Jan 20, 2008)

JoziJoe said:


> And I am of the opinion that neither Daxk or his sidekick *have a clue *what the philosophies of Ghandi means. Let us not forget that Ghandi's protest started *against British racist conduct * in South Africa!


All you have posted is rhetoric from Ghandi, mostly Political.

Kindly post what he wrote at the time about Black Africans, 

As you are an avowed expert on Ghandi, kindly also post what his opinions were towards the caste system in India and especially equality for them.

with links.


----------



## JoziJoe (Mar 21, 2008)

zambezi.king said:


> This is my first post on the forum so I will jump right in with both feet and probably insult everyone



Your post does not offend me at all, in fact, I agree with most of your points!




zambezi.king said:


> The west is by and large the purpetrators of mess as well as the creators. *To blame the Jews for ANY of the problems is not only short sighted but misses the point entirely. Yes they profited from apartheid, also way before, simply because the Jewish people are superb businessmen. The saw the potential way before anyone else* and were prepared to eek out a living in small shops and retail outlets (as many still do worldwide). All that rubbish at the start of the thread about the disproportionate amount of Jewish shops etc and "the Jews taking over" etc just smacked of anti-semitism and the usual propaganda put out by neo-nazi / Islamist/pro-arab, anti Jew small minded yahoos across the globe that feel depressed with their own lives... ah, shame! Get over it!


I could not agree more! They are *superb businessmen and they prospered from Apartheid! * They saw the *potential of cheap black labour* and the massive *Oppenheimer dynasty made full use of it, exploiting it.* So why not just admit it? Why hide behind Helen Suzman and popular ‘belief” that Jews are not racist and, together with the world, point the finger at the Afrikaners? 

Why did they not, like the Afrikaners Apartheid villians, stand trial at the TRC for exploiting the cheap black labour ON LARGE SCALE and were MAJOR benefactors of Apartheid? 

The *disproportionate representation of Jews in business in SA, in particular Johannesburg (Jewberg)*, is reported by the Jewish Virtual Online Library itself, are you saying the Jews themselves are talking rubbish? Oh God, and of course, the word anti-semitism just had to pop up, whenever the Jews do something wrong, then we are being anti-semitic? Why don’t they just admit that they too, just like the rest of the world, have racist tendencies, as is perfectly being demonstrated on the West Bank in Palestine!



zambezi.king said:


> In South Africa we currently have zero, nil, nada, people who supported or benefitted from apartheid... just ask anyone they all condemn apartheid, were all pro "freedom" and all on the "right" side of the arguement. COMPLETE BS!!


You are entitled to your opinion.




zambezi.king said:


> Sorry JoziJo but you condemn the Jews (Oppenheimers etc) for leaving but where are you at the moment (you say you want to come back)?



I am querying the *AMBIGUITY *of the Jews and the British in South Africa, it’s hard to draw the line as a lot of them were BRITISH JEWS. I’m querying the fact that only the Afrikaner Apartheid villains stood trial at the TRC, whilst a LARGE section of major Jewish & British Apartheid Benefactors got off scott free. 

None of the South Africans currently participating on this thread live in South Africa, so what? I left for NZ in 2005 because of unemployment in SA. NZ Immigration to this day “recruits” South Africans with overemphasized visions of jobs, safety, racial harmony, 100% pure NZ. 

Jobs in NZ are scarce because of the global recession, the anti-Asian sentiment in NZ is tangible (In some aspects, Apartheid was kindergarten compared to it), I have worked 18 hour days, I was paid for 8, I have never had so much respiratory problems in my life because of the extreme damp and the mould and the housing is crap and overpriced, Auckland has a ‘real estate bubble” because of all the immigrants being lured to NZ! I would be better off working 18 hr days being paid for 8 in SA, I'm starting to think dying by bullet is easier than pneumonia!






zambezi.king said:


> If you want to blame someone for the shambles in South Africa's early years and the start of apartheid and the resentment between the Afrikaaner and the English *then look to Britian. **Yes they were brutal and arrogant and they are now paying for it.*
> 
> *If you want to know who supported the apartheid regime in is quite simply everybody. Britian and the States on one side and Russia and China on the other. They all prospered from the turmoil and are reaping even bigger benefits now.* As an example where else in the world can you get a producing copper mine and associated infrastructure for $50 million except in Zambia. They have beggered the country to the point that they think the west is doing them a favour by buying the mines. And China, well they are a little more subtle about thier inroads into Africa. They too buy the minerals but also put up the infrastructure such as roads etc... only problem it is all usually substandard and thereafter the only import Chinese for employment.
> 
> ...


This particular thread focuses on Jews, because I'm trying to highlight there were OTHER WHITE BENEFACTORS OF APARTHEID, it was not just the AFRIKANER, as the British Propaganda Machine brainwashed the world to think! The rest of my sentiments expressed on this Forum in other threads are much the same as yours.


*Thank you, Thank you God!!
There is someone else who has realized that the SH1T going on in Africa is about the exploitation of mineral resources, the whole f---- industrial world is leeching off Africa's resources! *. 

China was even so bold as to send ships with ammunition to assist Robert Mugabe during the “elections”!!


----------



## JoziJoe (Mar 21, 2008)

Daxk said:


> All you have posted is rhetoric from Ghandi, mostly Political.
> 
> Kindly post what he wrote at the time about Black Africans,
> 
> ...



Ooooh I know your toes are sore about this one Daxk! 
I have told you before, I am not an expert on Ghandi or the Caste System in India and I’m not about to swot up for links on your command. Yet again, you just cannot see things in context of what is being said.

If the world is going to label Ghandi Racist, then Mandela should be labeled Racist too! Mandela’s activism was intended for the BLACK COMMUNITY, who knows, *perhaps even excluding the Zulus? * Is Mandela Racist? He did what he felt was right for HIS community, so did Ghandi. 

For me personally, my admiration for Ghandi lies in the fact that he so *accurately **PINPOINTED the TRUE source of racist problems* in Southern Africa, which was *Racism introduced under British Rule! * 

Curiously, Mandela has yet to realize, admit and broadcast that *reality*. I’m sure it’s not because of lack of intelligence or insight!


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## Daxk (Jan 20, 2008)

"If the world is going to label Ghandi Racist, then Mandela should be labeled Racist too! Mandela’s activism was intended for the BLACK COMMUNITY, who knows, perhaps even excluding the Zulus? Is Mandela Racist? He did what he felt was right for HIS community, so did Ghandi. "

So did the Brits, and the Jews, and the Afrikaners.
They did what they felt was right for their communities.

But you seem to be expecting some sort of mass mea culpa for what was done in the past, and lauded and admired in the past and reviled by todays standards.

what exactly do you expect from readers of your diatribes?
The Brits took what they could by force and coercion,
so did every other Race and nation and tribe.
and some religious beliefs too.
still do.
which part of this dont you understand?


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## JoziJoe (Mar 21, 2008)

Daxk said:


> what exactly do you expect from readers of your diatribes?
> The Brits took what they could by force and coercion,
> so did every other Race and nation and tribe.
> and some religious beliefs too.
> ...


Shame on you Daxk! Trying to justify Jewish/British hypocrisy and atrocities in Southern Africa as "just another human global trend". I am intrigued by your obsessed attempts at honouring the hypocrisy! It's *just my humble, Ghandified opinion* that genocide, ethnic cleansing, exploitation of vulnerable elements should *not* be part of colonisation, neither should blaming another party for your sins. Blameshifting by organised protests and propoganda. You claim to support Human Rights but approve (and even reward) mass slaughter of innocent people in your own colonies? Tsk Tsk.....

By the way, there is a vast difference between political activism and colonisation.


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## JoziJoe (Mar 21, 2008)

*Chinese ship carries arms cargo to Mugabe regime*

*Chinese ship carries arms cargo to Mugabe regime*



> A Chinese cargo ship believed to be carrying 77 tonnes of small arms, including more than 3m rounds of ammunition, AK47 assault rifles, mortars and rocket-propelled grenades, has docked in the South African port of Durban for transportation of the weapons to Zimbabwe, the South African government confirmed yesterday. It claimed it was powerless to intervene as long as the ship's papers were in order.
> 
> Copies of the documentation for the Chinese ship, the An Yue Jiang, show that the weapons were sent from Beijing to the ministry of defence in Harare. Headed "Dangerous goods description and container packing certificate", the document was issued on April 1, three days after Zimbabwe's election. It lists the consignment as including 3.5m rounds of ammunition for AK47 assault rifles and for small arms, 1,500 40mm rockets, 2,500 mortar shells of 60mm and 81mm calibre, as well as 93 cases of mortar tubes.
> 
> ...


Chinese ship carries arms cargo to Mugabe regime | World news | The Guardian


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## JoziJoe (Mar 21, 2008)

*Israel Loves Mugabe?*

Oh Gosh no, not another one....


> What in the name of all that’s holy is Israel, a democratic state founded by socialist idealists, doing supporting one of the most reviled despots on earth – one who, furthermore, is no friend of Israel, at least officially. The answer may be found in certain Israeli-based economic interests, which, in turn, could have an inordinate influence on that nation’s Africa policy – specifically in the case of Zimbabwe and the “Democratic Republic of the Congo.”






> *Unfortunately, Israel’s policy in regard to Zimbabwe is not the exception that proves the rule: it is business as usual.*
> 
> The moral depravity of Israel’s African policies are highlighted by the close cooperation that existed between Tel Aviv and the apartheid regime of South Africa. Israel provided the expertise, experience, and technology, as well as other covert military aid, which enabled white Pretoria to hold off the African National Congress for as long as it did. And, as Jimmy Carter and others have pointed out, I*srael has replicated its former ally’s policy toward black South Africans in the occupied territories. *


Israel Loves Mugabe by Justin Raimondo -- Antiwar.com


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## zambezi.king (Oct 8, 2009)

I could not agree more! They are *superb businessmen and they prospered from Apartheid! * They saw the *potential of cheap black labour* and the massive *Oppenheimer dynasty made full use of it, exploiting it.* So why not just admit it? Why hide behind Helen Suzman and popular ‘belief” that Jews are not racist and, together with the world, point the finger at the Afrikaners? 

No-one around the world would argue that Oppenheimer exploited black labour. Everyone did and still does. Now it is just as bad. Look at the orient, cheap labour is still being exploited... that's life. Do you really think that either the Far East or South Africa could either now or in the past pay our labour the "going" rate? As far as Suzman goes there are, in every culture, the good and the bad. EVERY CULTURE is racist, period, fullstop, the end! The Afrikaaner was the scapegoat (although they were extremely tough on the local population at times, but then again show me any country that has never had to give thier "unwashed masses" a good slap every now and again! Furthermore, do you remember who were the biggest anti-apartheid loud mouths... it was the USA and Australia... THE 2 COUNTRIES THAT ALMOST EXTERMINATED THEIR INDIGENOUS POPULATION! 



Why did they not, like the Afrikaners Apartheid villians, stand trial at the TRC for exploiting the cheap black labour ON LARGE SCALE and were MAJOR benefactors of Apartheid? 

Because they left the country and they were not required to... if they were extradited to SA then it would have opened the door for all the leaders of industry and nations to be held accountable... can't have that! Lastly they were not the ones in the death / torture / intelligence gathering squads.

The *disproportionate representation of Jews in business in SA, in particular Johannesburg (Jewberg)*, is reported by the Jewish Virtual Online Library itself, are you saying the Jews themselves are talking rubbish? Oh God, and of course, the word anti-semitism just had to pop up, whenever the Jews do something wrong, then we are being anti-semitic? Why don’t they just admit that they too, just like the rest of the world, have racist tendencies, as is perfectly being demonstrated on the West Bank in Palestine!

Ahh, the old "double bluff" routine... any time someone mouths off on an anti-semitic tirade and is then called up on it people play the ANTI-anti-semitic card. The noe-nazi KKK kind of rubbish. As stated above ALL nations are racists, just some more than others. Why are you actually singling out the Jews? Why not everyone... afterall every nation is saying they are blameless. A recent ruling in the states has given blacks that were "hurt/disadvantaged/oppressed by the fact that American companies operated here during apartheid the right to sue those companies. 



You are entitled to your opinion.

I am still living in Johannesburg so my opinion is based on fact! No-one here has a backbone anymore! Everyone was "secretly in the resistance". BS!




I am querying the *AMBIGUITY *of the Jews and the British in South Africa, it’s hard to draw the line as a lot of them were BRITISH JEWS. I’m querying the fact that only the Afrikaner Apartheid villains stood trial at the TRC, whilst a LARGE section of major Jewish & British Apartheid Benefactors got off scott free. 


I agree but see above...

None of the South Africans currently participating on this thread live in South Africa, so what? I left for NZ in 2005 because of unemployment in SA. NZ Immigration to this day “recruits” South Africans with overemphasized visions of jobs, safety, racial harmony, 100% pure NZ. 

Yip the BEE idea is rubbish... I was passed over last month for a serious step up and the guy they hired is FAR less qualified! 

Jobs in NZ are scarce because of the global recession, the anti-Asian sentiment in NZ is tangible (In some aspects, Apartheid was kindergarten compared to it), I have worked 18 hour days, I was paid for 8, I have never had so much respiratory problems in my life because of the extreme damp and the mould and the housing is crap and overpriced, Auckland has a ‘real estate bubble” because of all the immigrants being lured to NZ! I would be better off working 18 hr days being paid for 8 in SA, I'm starting to think dying by bullet is easier than pneumonia!

I an not leaving because of job issues (well not primarily anyway) but because I have a wife and 2 kids that I worry about due to the crime rate. And secondly the education system is "in the toilet" now and it is only going to get worse. 



This particular thread focuses on Jews, because I'm trying to highlight there were OTHER WHITE BENEFACTORS OF APARTHEID, it was not just the AFRIKANER, as the British Propaganda Machine brainwashed the world to think! The rest of my sentiments expressed on this Forum in other threads are much the same as yours.

See above...

*Thank you, Thank you God!!
There is someone else who has realized that the SH1T going on in Africa is about the exploitation of mineral resources, the whole f---- industrial world is leeching off Africa's resources! *. 

China was even so bold as to send ships with ammunition to assist Robert Mugabe during the “elections”!![/QUOTE]

NO arguement here, it is systematic destabilisation... keep Africa off balance and at war with itself and you can rob them blind in broad daylight. The West had the continent sown up for years now it is the Chinese for the next period.


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## Halo (May 8, 2008)

"Jozi sits at home grinding his/her axe with a tin-foil hat on - Muttering -- The jews, jews and those damm Brits...... They always blame the Afrikaaner deez lot...... Oppenheimer... Debeeers - ek sal jou kry" (waves finger like PW Botha)


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

keep it clean and avoid personal insults wont you!!!

Jo xxx


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## Halo (May 8, 2008)

jojo said:


> keep it clean and avoid personal insults wont you!!!
> 
> Jo xxx


Always.... can't get much cleaner than that...... :tongue1:


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## Daxk (Jan 20, 2008)

JoziJoe said:


> correction:
> 
> The White Afrikaners were not the architects of Apartheid, they were the *perpetuators *of Apartheid.


And they did it very well.


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## JoziJoe (Mar 21, 2008)

zambezi.king said:


> *The Afrikaaner was the scapegoat (although they were extremely tough on the local population at times,*


Excellent point. The Afrikaner was being used as a scapegoat although they undoubtedly utilised Apartheid for their own gain! I did not focus on their role because volumes has already been written about it, the media has not focused on the British and Jewish being benefactors of Apartheid, as much as they did on the Afrikaner's role.



zambezi.king said:


> Furthermore, do you remember who were the biggest anti-apartheid loud mouths... it was the USA and Australia... THE 2 COUNTRIES THAT ALMOST EXTERMINATED THEIR INDIGENOUS POPULATION!


Now we know why HALO fled to Australia, weighing up the odds.....
:boink:

Yeah, and in Australia, guess who was *originally responsible* for the *near extinction of the Aboriginals?*
They were declared as being "part of the fauna" and the "shoot on sight" rule only recalled a view years ago!





zambezi.king said:


> Because they left the country and they were not required to... if they were extradited to SA then it would have opened the door for all the leaders of industry and nations to be held accountable... can't have that! Lastly they were not the ones in the death / torture / intelligence gathering squads.


Absolutely! The Afrikaner was "policing" the system for the other white Benefactors.




zambezi.king said:


> NO arguement here, it is *systematic destabilisation..*. keep Africa off balance and at war with itself and you can rob them blind in broad daylight. The West had the continent sown up for years now it is the Chinese for the next period.


Could not have expressed it better myself!


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## JoziJoe (Mar 21, 2008)

Daxk said:


> And they did it very well.


Oh God, which *part of the context of this thread* is it that y*ou don’t understand?? * 

I have *repeatedly stated* that I am *deliberately focusing* on the “*other white benefactors of Apartheid*” besides the *obvious*, the British Propaganda machine h*as written volumes and made movies blaming the Afrikaner for Apartheid,* we all know that the Afrikaner abused the Apartheid system, few know aboutg the white Jews and the British!

The *DIFFERENCE *lies in the fact that the Afrikaner has ACKNOWLEDGED, ADMITTED, stood TRIAL at the TRC, and is busy paying by GENOCIDE for his sins during Apartheid! 

While the magician is diverting your focus, *WATCH what the OTHER hand is doing!*

:eyebrows:


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## JoziJoe (Mar 21, 2008)

Halo said:


> "Jozi sits at home grinding his/her axe with a tin-foil hat on - Muttering -- The jews, jews and those damm Brits...... They always blame the Afrikaaner deez lot...... Oppenheimer... Debeeers - ek sal jou kry" (waves finger like PW Botha)


Awwww This is so cute! 
It’s like a straggly little stray cat from Manchester meowing, in order to hide it’s cowardice, in front of a full grown African Lion. 

It’s does not fit the environment and has never bothered to learn any African language, of black or white origin, so it does not know how to communicate with Africa, i*t’s only there because it is hungry.* 

I know Jo Jo is going to nail me for this one but I hope I can make up for it with my next post, which, *the intended audience,* will find inspiring.


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## JoziJoe (Mar 21, 2008)

Africa is an ancient, ancient continent and so are it’s people’s. It has *ancient wisdom and an advanced Consciousness of the mind not recognised and ridiculed by “Western Civilisation”. * It has riches in abundance, for which it is being bled dry, it is being strangled to death.

It is time for all once enslaved people’s to return to Africa, to *restore *it. Do not come to Africa if you are hungry, for you will receive nothing. Come to Africa to restore it and you will be rewarded in abundance, both in riches and ancient wisdom. Your attitude towards Africa will determine your future.

The solution for Racism will come from Southern Africa, the countries that have been scorned by this evil, for they are the *only *ones that truly understand the solution to the problem.

______________________________________________


More Ghandi Quotes for the restoration of Africa:



> *A coward is incapable of exhibiting love; it is the prerogative of the brave.
> *
> A religion that takes no account of practical affairs and does not help to solve them is no religion.
> 
> ...


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

I dont know whay you guys dont just agree to disagree! In your own small ways on the forum, you're doing what causes the problems and disharmony out there in the big wide world!

Jo xxx


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## Daxk (Jan 20, 2008)

Yawn!


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Daxk said:


> Yawn!


Ok, ok so my idea is the boring option!! sorry LOL 


Jo xxx


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## Daxk (Jan 20, 2008)

jo, my apologies, the yawn was for Jozi joes rants and post


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## Daxk (Jan 20, 2008)

Hey Jozi, which African languages do you speak?
Interesting concept, a return of all whose ancestors were enslaved.
I assume that also means all those who have left since?
I assume back to their Countries of origin?
Like the liberia and Sierra Leone experiments, both setup to return slaves back to Africa?
I think France and Spain and probably Italy would do double backflips of Joy if their illegal imigrant populations returned.

I also assume that the white population would need to return to their roots?
so my Family would have to return to Prussia from which they emigrated to SA in 1748, Malaya, Bali, France, Holland, and Ireland and I assume my Zulu (Nguni)roots would have to return back up to Ethiopia

Interesting concept, that only leaves descendants of the San and the Coloured (Mulatto) population who have no place else to go in Southern Africa
So thats your master plan!!!


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## JoziJoe (Mar 21, 2008)

Daxk said:


> So thats your master plan!!!


Why do you keep hounding a thread that is boring you to death?

I should have put the first bit of my last post in quotes because it is actually a very ROUGH translation from a* spiritual leader*, an elder, *highly respected *amongst Zulus. If you knew anything about your country (besides the white culture) or respected it, you would know that, understand the s*piritual message *and your ultimate insult, it would not bore you. I guess that's why you're back in Ireland, where you belong, in your Library, sucking up facts from dusty, hypocritic British history books, written by those who *exterminate ancient civilisations *to introduce their own which they believe to be superior. They fear diversity.

*It is a cry for help,* because he believes Africa is dying, and from what he has experienced from the white man in Africa, he does not believe that any white or any current, (manipulated by whites) Black Government system, solution or plan could help his people, specially those that are dying in their thousands from Aids and poverty and still being exploited as cheap black labour to mine African resources. 

I won't be able to write again for a while, as I am going away, but this is an *African spiritual message*, written by an African spiritual leader, that's why I said it is for an intended audience, let me spell it out,* it's not for you.*

Together with your sidekick Halo, go display your *disrespect for African tradition * and spirituality on other threads, I've told you many times, we don't serve the same Master.


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## Halo (May 8, 2008)

Has the rhetoric but never the answers.... PAR for the course.


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## JoziJoe (Mar 21, 2008)

Halo said:


> Has the rhetoric but never the answers.... PAR for the course.



You want *answers*? You or Daxk have never bothered to answer any of my questions or even acknowledge any of my arguments? Why is that, because you did not know what to say? You demand answers but have never displayed common curteousy or respect?

*I owe you nothing! * You, on the other hand, have many debts, taken from Africa but given nothing in return. Your *disrespect of South Africa *and it’s people’s, and now, even your *new host,* the Australians, is all over this Forum. 

Tread carefully, the cities of Melbourne and Sydney are not doing too well financially, bordering on bankruptcy I believe, I don't think going home is an option for you, no matter how much you try and deny it! You might be forced to move North or West, you know, where all dem wild South Africans and Aussies are, cause that's where the money in Australia is being made! (the mines)


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## JoziJoe (Mar 21, 2008)

With *respect *to the *great, spiritual Zulu leader* who wrote the following for his people, I have used my little bit of knowledge to try and convey (translate) some of his *many wisdoms* for the healing for Africa. This great Zulu elder, a man of vision and mature insight, does not want publicity at this time, as he is old and suffering ill health and wishes to focus on other spiritual matters pertaining to his life right now. 

*How to heal Murderers*
The murderer must witness a woman giving birth. The principle being that the giving of life will cancel out the taking of life.

*How to heal Thieves*
An Employer witnessed his employee stealing chocolates wrapped in silver foil paper. The employer then wrapped some cow dung in silver foil paper and placed it in the chocolate holder. The principle being that the thief must learn that what he steals is worthless. (is worth SH1T  )

Nqyiabonga Baba.


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## Halo (May 8, 2008)

JoziJoe said:


> You want *answers*? You or Daxk have never bothered to answer any of my questions or even acknowledge any of my arguments? Why is that, because you did not know what to say? You demand answers but have never displayed common curteousy or respect?
> 
> *I owe you nothing! * You, on the other hand, have many debts, taken from Africa but given nothing in return. Your *disrespect of South Africa *and it’s people’s, and now, even your *new host,* the Australians, is all over this Forum.
> 
> Tread carefully, the cities of Melbourne and Sydney are not doing too well financially, bordering on bankruptcy I believe, I don't think going home is an option for you, no matter how much you try and deny it! You might be forced to move North or West, you know, where all dem wild South Africans and Aussies are, cause that's where the money in Australia is being made! (the mines)


Thing is - You just don't have any answers.

PS There is no way I will be staying for any length of time in Australia - its good fun and all but not for me. (I'll say hi to Frikki for you )


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## Daxk (Jan 20, 2008)

I assume you are talking about credo? his books are interesting , especially his indaba my children ,his tales well written, if it is your interest you need to read Dr Peter Beckers books on the Zulu, he was the first one to live with the zulu and he transcribed the Folklore tales and History of the Zulu in the 1950's dating back to the History of the Zulu as carried down through the ages and passed on word of mouth.
I knew him as a child and he would tell the stories in readings at night.
fascinating stuff.

credo too has read beckers books which he and I discussed at a conference unfortunately now out of print but you may find them second hand on Kalahari.net or Amazon. or, which you will only get from the Book Collections now
Path of Blood, Hill of destiny and Rule of fear were the titles..

There was another about Shaka and they are all in my dusty Library at my office in South Africa
another pleasure taken from you would have been to listen David Rattray who was recently murdered tell and re-enact Isandhlwana and the defense of rorkes drift. from both the British and from stories carried down from the grandfathers who fought on the zulu side.

Unfortunately, credo who is a fascinating man to talk to, has fallen out of favour with the ruling party.he was the Praise singer, but is now sidelined.

oh, your salute to a father/elder/grandfather/mentor would be more believable if it was done phonetically.
the response from Baba would have been "Nkosi, hamba gahle or Sala Gahle where the hle is pronounced shelle but with a long e.

so I will greet you Cunjani umfaan., sikhona? (Phonetically)


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## JoziJoe (Mar 21, 2008)

Daxk said:


> Unfortunately, credo who is a fascinating man to talk to, has fallen out of favour with the ruling party.he was the Praise singer, but is now sidelined.


No, because he is so outspoken against the corruption and exploitation in South Africa, and his negative views on Barack Obama, he has been forced to go into hiding. His life is under threat.



Daxk said:


> oh, your salute to a father/elder/grandfather/mentor would be more believable if it was done phonetically.
> the response from Baba would have been "Nkosi, hamba gahle or Sala Gahle where the hle is pronounced shelle but with a long e.
> 
> so I will greet you Cunjani umfaan., sikhona? (Phonetically)


My understanding of Zulu is poor, I never claimed otherwise, I merely said thankyou, thankyou to a great spiritual leader, who is known amongst his people as Baba Credo Mutwa. A man who predicted the fall of Mbeki as far back as 1999 and now foresees the killing of Obama.

Baba Vusamazulu Credo Mutwa on Barack Obama | Credo Mutwa Zulu Shaman


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## Daxk (Jan 20, 2008)

you psssed a comment on how "we" internationals had not even bothered to learn an African language.
so it appears, neither have you.
I said Credo is a fascinating man, that he is intelligent, and that enjoyed speaking with him.
wether he is the African Nostradamus I do not know, or the Afrikaans Siener van Rensburg or Edward Cacey .
he could also be Nonkwazi, (not the Xhosa spelling) who persuaded amongst other that if they killed their cattle the russians would come across the sea and remove Lord Grey. 
and thousands of Xhosa starved to death.
(strange things Dusty Libraries, they teach you things)

Is credo a fraud? I dont know.were the missing statues I asked him about that were "destroyed" by "terrorists" in 1985 the african Rosetta stone or not?
I have no idea.
pity that the photo's seem to show something copied from diferent texts and that they could not be verified
.the two toed village descended from Aliens in Zimbabwe has never been found by anyone else.
and no-one in those areas or across in zambia has even a oral tradition about it.
Yeah, he is a great guy, can speak well, is intelligent and makes a killing with the tourists.
But he has stepped on toes, especially about being paid a salary by the ANC.
he felt that as he had supported Mbeki's statements that Black South Africa had ruled Egypt and been responsible for lots of good things entitled him. 

Predicting Mbeki was going to go wasn't difficult.
his prediction for Obama?
possible, the last catholic Pres of the USA who was also young and making waves against big business was taken out.
so I guess a "black" Pres is also at risk. 
However, this war of exposure you rant on I still dont understand what it is that you want those who benefitted from Apartheid to do
I did, I got a great education, nice house, some great cars, a swimming pool at home when no-one else had one ,
Yeah, so what?
My dad worked hard.
the gardener worked hard and put the child he named after my father through school with the education money my father paid him extra, as did Margeret and Lizzie, both of whose kids all went to school, and the brightest of their children went on to University on the Insurance Education Endowment policies my father took out for them.
and paid for.
Sir Earnest and Harry were always Sir to me, Mary was a brat and Nicky fell often.
John Schlessinger and Basil Read both tested my mind and they might have all been Robber barons, but so what, it was what happened.
The quick and the poor to paraphrase a book.
I did some research, three people killed themselves at Anglo offices, two shot themselves, one who was disbarred and fired for dipping into the well and the other was a manic depressive.
what exact date and name was your experience?

so fun as all this is, I know and have posted ad Naseum about why I am out of SA, why are'nt you back there?
it sounds as if you are legal, why aren't you sueing these big people for reparations?


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## JoziJoe (Mar 21, 2008)

Daxk said:


> you psssed a comment on how "we" internationals had not even bothered to learn an African language.
> so it appears, neither have you.


I was referring to Halo's extremely poor Afrikaans and degradation of Afrikaners, especially as he mentioned he lived in SA for 20 odd years. Communication with Africa is also much more than language, when you immigrate you have to respect your host to some degree, you can't go to Africa and expect to create a little Britain for whingeing poms. You can't claim to support Human Rights, the abolishment of slavery and then score off Apartheid with an underpaid gardener and maid. You know there were thousands of Brits living in South Africa during apartheid, specially in Kempton Park, closest to the Airport, all supporting the struggle but left just before the release of Mandela. Hypocrits!



Daxk said:


> I said Credo is a fascinating man, that he is intelligent, and that enjoyed speaking with him.


I became interested in Credo after his prediction in 1999 about the split in the ANC ranks of power. Highly intelligent, a man of vision. He philosophies in many ways can be compared to that of Ghandi, he is also a healer, and much spurned by western civilisation for it.



Daxk said:


> However, this war of exposure you rant on I still dont understand what it is that you want those who benefitted from Apartheid to do


I have every right to express my feeling on a Forum! As long as the "lie" about the Afrikaner being responsible for Apartheid is perpetuated, used as a scapegoat by other parties that *are still very active in Africa,* the corruption has the perfect environment to continue. If the lie could be exposed about how Africa is being kept at war to rob her in broad daylight (brilliantly expressed by Zambezi King) then it could be stopped.



Daxk said:


> they might have all* been Robber barons, *but so what, it was what happened.


That's exactly the attitude that enables them continue, IT IS NOT IN THE PAST TENSE!





Daxk said:


> I did some research, three people killed themselves at Anglo offices, two shot themselves, one who was disbarred and fired for dipping into the well and the other was a manic depressive.
> what exact date and name was your experience?


Private information. Make of it what you want.





Daxk said:


> so fun as all this is, I know and have posted ad Naseum about why I am out of SA, why are'nt you back there?
> it sounds as if you are legal, why aren't you sueing these big people for reparations?


I have posted ad Naseum about why I am out of SA. I'm not legal. You seem to be the big cog in the wheel that has some punch though, what have you done? 

Sit on ExpatForum blaming the imcompetent current, manipulated Black Government? They are NOT the source of the problem!


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## Daxk (Jan 20, 2008)

Thank you.
a post without sweeping rhetoric.

I hear what you say about not learning the language of the country.

I was once in a queue in a post office for something I HAD to post off to the University,
ahead of me was a little old lady who had been in Country for a number of years, was very negative about Lord Carrington and the whole exercise, front of queue, she encountered an officious little man who hearing her obviously Brit accent, addressed her in Afrikaans.

she apologised and said she had dificulty learning the language when this arrogant little man,in very bad English, proceeded to lecture her on what bad manners it was to not be able to talk to him in his home language.

I was about to intervene when she spoke to him in what I assume was welsh.
then in English she advised him she would be happy to chat with him when he was able to speak to her in her home language.
she bid him Goeie More and left to applause. from a bunch of mostly Afrikaaners.

here in Ireland I'm faced with something similar.
Gaelic.

My 10 year old daughter speaks it perfectly, we have Irish road signs, Irish radio stations, Irish TV Stations, and sometimes officious little people who insist on being spoken to in Irish.
I used to get irritated with the bloody pom immigrants, 

Now I can understand their point of view.
about Afrikaans.

as to their leaving in 76, 82 and 93/94, who can blame them.
in excess of 1,000,000 true blue sarf Effricans have left too.
a lot of them Arikaans.

I assume you were one of them.

your next point about credo being spurned by western Civilisation,
most of the people who are pushing the x-files alien invasion theories are seen as crackpot,.
pehaps?
I dont know, I have an open mind.

a lot of credo's work has unfortunately been found to be plagiarised and re written.
I refer specifically to his writings on the "Kankerbos" (cant remember the latin name)as an aids treatment as well as a cancer treatment

parts were lifted off older books about "Boere raad" which was gleaned from the bushmen in times past.

I had two fleishes who swore by it and washed the wounds when a chopper could not get get into us, with some they found.

those wounds healed a lot quicker than others.

Unortunately, dr Betroots Spaza shop in Canada destroyed a lot of credibility.

"have posted ad Naseum about why I am out of SA. I'm not legal. You seem to be the big cog in the wheel that has some punch though, what have you done? "

Nope, just someone who has led a very full life, given more than I have taken and leave a legacy of something a bit better than I found it.

I left because they would not keep the scum in Prison and they threatened my then 5 year old child if I testified.

Whats your story?
what have you done with what as given to you?

other than b!tch?

Manipulated Black Govt?
hehheh you really have'nt lived there for a while, have you?

Its every man for himself and Devil take the hindmost.

They worried about the communists too much.
Its fully Capitalist..
From the Pres down.
pay me time and I always loved that Number Plate on the rolls, "[email protected] the Poor"
its very valid..
for the new Rulers.


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## JoziJoe (Mar 21, 2008)

I have explained ad Naseum in 2005 because of BEE, not because of crime or violence, unemployment is way more scary than that. Besides, if it is your time, it is your time. I'm also looking to return.

Don't thank me for anything too soon yet! I have to go now but will reply in a week or two, don't have time.


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## Daxk (Jan 20, 2008)

No, you misunderstand.
it was the first post from you that was, just normal conversation, different viewpoints, but no gotterdammerung!
enjoy, hear from you in a fortnight.


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## Halo (May 8, 2008)

Nothing worse than a self hating Afrikaner..... First they go and lose the war then their country - next thing, their identity. 

Kombuis tall kom ou wa. 

Now please go back and fix the mess the Afrikaners made - Then we all can go to SA any enjoy the good weather and warmth of Africa.


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## Daxk (Jan 20, 2008)

Careful Halo, you will re-start the Boer War.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Daxk said:


> Careful Halo, you will re-start the Boer War.



The "Bore" war!! I know absoulutely nothing about south africa, but I do know if this is a small sample of the issues going on there then I would imagine its a dreadful place to live!!

Jo xxx


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## Daxk (Jan 20, 2008)

jojo said:


> The "Bore" war!! I know absoulutely nothing about south africa, but I do know if this is a small sample of the issues going on there then I would imagine its a dreadful place to live!!
> 
> Jo xxx


Jo, its an incredibly Beautiful place,with a warm temperate Weather,
Its people are by and large,intelligent,friendly and have a great sense of humour.
It has immense mineral wealth, soil that could feed Africa and the world, 
it borders the Warm Indian Ocean and the Atlantic Ocean so it had the ability to provide large fish stocks,
until recently it suppled 75% of Sub Saharan Africa's electricity.
It is also an incredibly dangerous place for the unwary.
starting from when you are a toddler, be it snakes, swimming pools, Bilharzia,Malaria, TB, through to mostly superb roads,high Driving speeds, AIDS,
and finaly, thefact that 50 people a day get murdered and 150 an children women get raped on average per day.

It still does not mean you are guaranteed to be a victim, just that there is a strong likelyhood if you drop your awareness level for a moment.
Its very easy to spot a newly arrived South African anywhere in the world,
they are very watchful, will look behind them every few minuts, head constantly swivels, will lock car doors immediately, check Front and Back doors are locked etc..

But... SA is a place of such great promise and there is anger that its potential is being wasted.
anyway,if you are young and dont have children, I cant think of a better place to live, as long as you are aware of the rules.


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## DannyBoy (Apr 29, 2009)

*Bee post from 2005*



JoziJoe said:


> I have explained ad Naseum in 2005 because of BEE, not because of crime or violence, unemployment is way more scary than that. Besides, if it is your time, it is your time. I'm also looking to return.
> 
> Don't thank me for anything too soon yet! I have to go now but will reply in a week or two, don't have time.


Hey Jozi,

what was the title to the BEE post from 2005. If it's still available I'd be interested in reading it.

I too would like to return, but am hesitant due to the job situation. I'm 40- something and not a good businessman that I could start my own business. So I'd need to find a job in a Financial Corporation where I hear BEE is strictly enforced.
It's crap getting old,...what can I say.


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## Halo (May 8, 2008)

Daxk said:


> Careful Halo, you will re-start the Boer War.


I just can't take its subjectivity......


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## Halo (May 8, 2008)

jojo said:


> The "Bore" war!! I know absoulutely nothing about south africa, but I do know if this is a small sample of the issues going on there then I would imagine its a dreadful place to live!!
> 
> Jo xxx


Daxk summed it up well - Unfortunately there are always those "fringe" groups and the in-house problems of Africa - Lets not forget Francisco Franco from your side of the world.....! (lets add ETA)


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Halo said:


> Daxk summed it up well - Unfortunately there are always those "fringe" groups and the in-house problems of Africa - Lets not forget Francisco Franco from your side of the world.....! (lets add ETA)


yep and of course dont forget hitler! I cant say I could be bothered to argue the rights and wrongs of it all for 8 pages tho !!!! 

Jo xxx


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## Halo (May 8, 2008)

jojo said:


> yep and of course dont forget hitler! I cant say I could be bothered to argue the rights and wrongs of it all for 8 pages tho !!!!
> 
> Jo xxx


Agreed but discourse it not always about the individuals participation.... its also about those that read that very discourse and make up their own minds. 

Subjective people need to be taken to account.

Karl


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