# roof spain continued



## mimi855559 (Jun 16, 2012)

Can someone advise if you need permission to repair a roof on a small casita...The English builder we are dealing with says we do..:eyebrows:


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

mimi855559 said:


> Can someone advise if you need permission to repair a roof on a small casita...The English builder we are dealing with says we do..:eyebrows:


quite possibly you do.....

every ayuntamiento has slightly different rules & the only way to know for sure is to ask at the planning dept


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## mimi855559 (Jun 16, 2012)

xabiachica said:


> quite possibly you do.....
> 
> every ayuntamiento has slightly different rules & the only way to know for sure is to ask at the planning dept


thanks...I am getting a bit worried as the quote has doubled and is silly for such a small casita....My roof at home in Jersey was £10 K and my house is huge and to be quoted half that for a tiny casita is just ridiculous.......


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

mimi855559 said:


> thanks...I am getting a bit worried as the quote has doubled and is silly for such a small casita....My roof at home in Jersey was £10 K and my house is huge and to be quoted half that for a tiny casita is just ridiculous.......


ah - so he's offering to sort out the planning permission

as I said, it's quite possible you do need permission - I believe you're _supposed _to get permission to even do interior work like painting!!

check it out yourself though, & if you need it, then sort it out yourself, or get a quote from gestor to do it for you


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## mimi855559 (Jun 16, 2012)

xabiachica said:


> ah - so he's offering to sort out the planning permission
> 
> as I said, it's quite possible you do need permission - I believe you're _supposed _to get permission to even do interior work like painting!!
> 
> check it out yourself though, & if you need it, then sort it out yourself, or get a quote from gestor to do it for you


Yes he is offering to sort planning permission..how do I sort myself? My spanish at mo is limited to ordering a Paella..lol....He says is no problem...but has returned with price twice what he originally quoted. He has done some work which is sub-standard..and of course we are starting to get a bit twitchy..


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

mimi855559 said:


> Yes he is offering to sort planning permission..how do I sort myself? My spanish at mo is limited to ordering a Paella..lol....He says is no problem...but has returned with price twice what he originally quoted. He has done some work which is sub-standard..and of course we are starting to get a bit twitchy..


does sound a bit much - go & see a gestor, as I said - that's what they are there for & usually don't cost the earth!


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## mimi855559 (Jun 16, 2012)

thanks for your advice I appreciate it..where do I find a gestor in Aragon and what precisely is a gestor lol.....


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

mimi855559 said:


> thanks for your advice I appreciate it..where do I find a gestor in Aragon and what precisely is a gestor lol.....


a gestor is a sort of 'facilitator' - they sort out all the paperwork that is either too complicated for you or that you don't have time for

around here there's one on just about every street corner - & speak to pretty much anyone & they'll use one

do have a bar that you use regularly? - they'll have one they use for sure


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## donz (May 5, 2010)

gotta say I didn't bother to get permission to replace the roof on my house but I don't know if I NEEDED to - it is different with every local ayuntamiento, however I am still waiting for permission to build what amounts to a shed on the end of my kennels for a grooming studio nearly 2 years in which I was told should be automatically approved as it was less than 10% of the existing building & wasn't for human habitation (plus €700 for architects plans & €200 for the licence application) so......go and ask informally and find out what you DO need before deciding what you will do......


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## dunmovin (Dec 19, 2008)

mimi855559 said:


> Can someone advise if you need permission to repair a roof on a small casita...The English builder we are dealing with says we do..:eyebrows:


Surely, if you are *repairing* and *not altering* the roof, you don't need permission. 

I would get the opinion of another builder, just to be sure.


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## gus-lopez (Jan 4, 2010)

Basically the law in Spain is the same ,just allowing for some local differences. You need a licence to do anything , whether repairs or new, inside or out.
It depends on what is actually required to the op's roof as to what is required on the licence & for ho much. 
What you require is a licence for 'obras menores' , small works in English.
If it is for changing the tiles only then it shouldn't cost a lot . Here it is around 75cents per square metre. Mine cost 88 euros for 120 m2 of roof. You can apply yourself . If the roof beams need replacing then here the licence will cost more.


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

gus-lopez said:


> Basically the law in Spain is the same ,just allowing for some local differences. You need a licence to do anything , whether repairs or new, inside or out.
> It depends on what is actually required to the op's roof as to what is required on the licence & for ho much.
> What you require is a licence for 'obras menores' , small works in English.
> If it is for changing the tiles only then it shouldn't cost a lot . Here it is around 75cents per square metre. Mine cost 88 euros for 120 m2 of roof. You can apply yourself . If the roof beams need replacing then here the licence will cost more.



Absolutely correct - you need a licence for everything.


We had to have a new roof on our flats - the (Spanish) builder said we didn't until the town hall intervened! We chose to completely redo the roof with new beams, concrete and a full layer of insulation before tiling. It will now last for years and is fully insulated. 

The application process can be daunting, especially if you need scaffolding etc. We used the services of an architect who not only drew up plans with all the necessary calculations for the structure (loadings), but also managed the licence process too.


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## mimi855559 (Jun 16, 2012)

snikpoh said:


> Absolutely correct - you need a licence for everything.
> 
> 
> We had to have a new roof on our flats - the (Spanish) builder said we didn't until the town hall intervened! We chose to completely redo the roof with new beams, concrete and a full layer of insulation before tiling. It will now last for years and is fully insulated.
> ...


Thanks for all your advice the roof basically needs repairing and some of the tiles replaced. The beams are fine but it is an old building. Would one need permission just to replace roof tiles, I am assuming, that if there was a storm you would not need to go through onerous procedures just to make the roof wind and watertight again? Oh the joy of it all...........lol :eyebrows:

M


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

mimi855559 said:


> Thanks for all your advice the roof basically needs repairing and some of the tiles replaced. The beams are fine but it is an old building. Would one need permission just to replace roof tiles, I am assuming, that if there was a storm you would not need to go through onerous procedures just to make the roof wind and watertight again? Oh the joy of it all...........lol :eyebrows:
> 
> M




It's interesting. Our roof had collapsed (old wooden beams rotted through) and was in danger of falling on the road. We asked the town hall to expedite the licence as it was a "health and safety" issue. They just laughed and said it would take up to 8 weeks to get the necessary paperwork.

In the mean time, if any one was injured, then I would be held liable.


I couldn't even put acro props in to hold it up (although I did).


Welcome to Spain.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

mimi855559 said:


> Can someone advise if you need permission to repair a roof on a small casita...The English builder we are dealing with says we do..:eyebrows:


Ask a local Spanish builder, get him/her to quote for just what you need doing, then compare. Ask neighbours about which Spanish builder they would use/have used and what the work was like. Remember that if he is local, he will most likely still be here and will sort out any other minor problems (often for free!) long after the Brit has upped-sticks and left.


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## dunmovin (Dec 19, 2008)

I agree with Baldi...get a local builder. Several reasons for this, normally they are cheaper per hour (e.g. Brit plumber 35 euros per hour, local plumber 20 euros per hour), they know what does and doesn't need permission and even if the work needs it, there is no language problems between them and the town hall. 

Add to that, there are a lot of Brits in Spain who call themselves "builders" (not all, but quite a few") who don't know what the bubble in a spirit level is for. I know of three like this, one was a salesman back in the UK, one done building work when his dad,s failing estate agent business could not afford to pay him (as a labourer), and the last got made redundant from his UK job, decided to come Spain and set up as a builder.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

dunmovin said:


> I agree with Baldi...get a local builder. Several reasons for this, normally they are cheaper per hour (e.g. Brit plumber 35 euros per hour, local plumber 20 euros per hour), they know what does and doesn't need permission and even if the work needs it, there is no language problems between them and the town hall.
> 
> Add to that, there are a lot of Brits in Spain who call themselves "builders" (not all, but quite a few") who don't know what the bubble in a spirit level is for. I know of three like this, one was a salesman back in the UK, one done building work when his dad,s failing estate agent business could not afford to pay him (as a labourer), and the last got made redundant from his UK job, decided to come Spain and set up as a builder.


We, mistakenly used a Brit "builder" to do some work for us - we are still sorting out the problems he left - his electrician left bare wires, didn't tighten up the screws of terminal blocks so that when one of the local painters was redecorating, the lights kept going off, and one double socket shorted out inside the box because of bare wires. Absolutely useless.

So many Brits who have done a bit of DiY come to Spain and set themselves up as a builder - avoid them like the plague. When all their failures start to catch up with them - they skip town. A local Spanish builder will have family here and can't just up sticks and leave his disasters behind. Never, ever give the "builder" money for materials, you may never see it again - ask him what he needs, you order it and have it delivered into your secure storage.

Remember that you are more likely to be ripped off by a fly-by-night Brit than you are by a local Spaniard.


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

baldilocks said:


> ...
> 
> Remember that you are more likely to be ripped off by a fly-by-night Brit than you are by a local Spaniard.



Quite true - use local Spanish trades first.

However, we were ripped off by a Spanish builder who was recommended to us. We speak the language fluently (my wife has lived here for most of her life), we know the processes yet we were still ripped off.

We took the builder to court (quite unheard of in Spain!) only to find that we were in a long list of similar people who had been ripped off by him. Our lawyer and the judge both agreed that we would win the case yet 5 years on, the case is still 'in the system'.

Needless to say, the 'builder' is still trading and continues to rip people off including Spanish!


Soooooo - be careful!


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## dunmovin (Dec 19, 2008)

Yet another point to consider about "Brit builders"(not the legitimate ones, but the ones who should arrive on a horse, wear a stetson and greet you with "Howdy partner") , is a lot of them will insist on cash,no receipts will be given. In other words paid in "black money".

Several problems to this. If they "cock-up" the job so badly that someone gets hurt as a result, how do you prove it was their bad workmanship that caused it? They damage your house or other property("Ooops, didn't mean that chimney to fall on your car guv. Hope you got good insurance,coz we got none"), you can't say it was the cowboy's fault, as you would be admitting to tax evasion.


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## thrax (Nov 13, 2008)

As far as I know you don't need a licence to breathe - yet.... A friend of ours is a very good legit British builder so I've asked him what happens here..


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

thrax said:


> As far as I know you don't need a licence to breathe - yet


Don't say that too loudly - at least not in earshot of Camoron and Clogg. I see their cronies in the gas and electricity industries are proposing to take another £50million in profits between now and the end of the year. I bet they don't increase the Winter Fuel allowance!


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## thrax (Nov 13, 2008)

The dreadful summer UK has suffered they should have been having the winter fuel allowance all year long


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## thrax (Nov 13, 2008)

My friend has said that yes you do need a licence; however, most Spanish builders will not bother for a repair to the roof job especially if you are not in an urbanisation where the chance of being seen doing the repair is unlikely. He had to apply for a licence to repair two tiles on a house next to a police station and it took two years.


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## ivalls (Oct 6, 2012)

You need to go to the town hall and ask. Give it a try yourself even if your Spanish bad, they will probably be someone who speaks a bit of English. Take some photos and a Google translate of what you want to say.

If it is a roof of a house and the work is structural (replacing the beams) then you will probably be told that you need a "licencia de obra mayor" if it not structural then "licencia de obra menor" 

You will need a Architect for "licencia de obra mayor" but for not for "licencia de obra menor" 

Get at least a couple of quotes from different biulders.


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