# Double Dip Recession how is it affecting life in Italy



## FlowerFairy5457 (Jan 2, 2014)

Heading to Italy next month for a holiday but dreaming of retiring to Italy (mad???). Would love to hear from expats living there and how the austerity measures are affecting living standards. Trying to find unbiased opinions from people who do not have a vested interest in us moving/relocating to Italy. After living here in Oz for 40-odd years (ex UK) are we nuts thinking about leaving our comfortable (perhaps boring) but modest life in Oz?


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## pudd 2 (Dec 10, 2008)

FlowerFairy5457 said:


> Heading to Italy next month for a holiday but dreaming of retiring to Italy (mad???). Would love to hear from expats living there and how the austerity measures are affecting living standards. Trying to find unbiased opinions from people who do not have a vested interest in us moving/relocating to Italy. After living here in Oz for 40-odd years (ex UK) are we nuts thinking about leaving our comfortable (perhaps boring) but modest life in Oz?


we moved here to abruzzo after taking early retirment , and have not looked back we luive on a small english penshion the weather is good the food is good wine good hearthcare second to none freindly people salt of the earth well they are here in the midle of italy Abruzzo 

downside there is not much work or money Flying about 

but all in all paradiso sept for tghe buragrats


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## FlowerFairy5457 (Jan 2, 2014)

Thanks for your quick response. Nice to 'hear' from you again. You certainly appear to be happy in your decision. I think we are thinking too much about it. It will be interesting to see how we feel after a month there, though this trip we will not be going to Abruzzo - we are doing the usual trinity - Rome, Florence, Venice and places inbetween. Are also taking the opportunity to look at a property just outside Spoleto purely because it fits in with our itinerary and we like the house


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## BBCWatcher (Dec 28, 2012)

The "double dip" is really only a technicality. The Italian economy never recovered to anywhere near pre-crisis levels. Last I checked it's about 9% off its pre-crisis peak (in GDP terms). It certainly feels and looks like one, long recession or even depression. That's true of much of Europe, though. Italy is somewhere in the middle of the pack in this respect.

I don't think the economic situation will dramatically affect your experience in retirement, and the impact will be mixed anyway. Inflation is certainly subdued or even non-existent, so that's great if you're on a fixed nominal euro-denominated income. It's a buyer's market for real estate, but take your time. If you plan to buy, find something you _really_ like and want to hang onto because you may not be able to sell it quickly or at a price you'd like. There's pressure on social services such as healthcare, and retirees tend to consume healthcare. Tax rates are high, and tax filing is complex, but retirees get a better deal than workers.

It's not a particularly English-speaking country, especially in southern Italy, so it's wise to spend some effort on learning the language. Whereupon you still won't understand many local dialects. 

All in all I think it's a very reasonable place to retire. Wish I could convince my wife.


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## FlowerFairy5457 (Jan 2, 2014)

Thanks for your input. As mentioned in earlier post I think we are thinking too much! We need to get over there and hopefully we will have an epiphany! When one has only limited resources and at our age one tends to 'worry wart' a bit! There's no going back once the next decision is made. There is no doubt life in Australia is 'comfortable' but can be very boring and thee is nothing wrong with wanting a change trouble is if we do jump there is no going back (i.e. there is a risk of throwing out the baby with the bathwater). At the moment I am struggling through Pimsleur but do not think I am getting very far. I think being on the ground and would take lerssons. Learning Italian would certainly keep the brain cells working! So looking forward to flying out on the 7th!


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## NickZ (Jun 26, 2009)

Italy is in a depression has been for a few years. Real GDP is down more then nominal.

I'd disagree with the comment on it not affecting you.

Small hospitals are closing. Even schools are closing. That will lead to problems for families in those areas. In general local taxes are going up. In many areas you'll find large numbers of shops closed. I know of one large shopping centre that is a ghost town. Not an old creaky one either but one that just a few years ago was considered the modern one in the area. You can blame the idiot French owners for not understanding what was going on but still there are literally tumbleweeds in the parking lot.


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## FlowerFairy5457 (Jan 2, 2014)

Thanks for your input NickZ. It would be interesting to know the name of the town/village where the shopping centre that is now a ghost town? As we will be retirees without a family some things will not affect us but health care (or the lack thereof) will. Will you be returning home (wherever that is) due to the current climate? If not, your thoughts on why not will be interesting. We have not sold our property here which has given us more time to think which can be both helpful and/or dangerous!


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## NickZ (Jun 26, 2009)

Centro Commerciale Sannicola

It's this one.

No I'm not leaving. I can handle things well enough. But then I'm Italian and have family spread around the country .

I wouldn't gloss over the issues. Things will be bad for quite a while. They've underestimated the follow on issues. They tend to stick their heads in the sand. Then they try gimicky things that any sane person knows won't work. Worse they then complain when people point out they won't work.


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## FlowerFairy5457 (Jan 2, 2014)

Understood. I did not realise you were Italian which, of course, makes all the difference. Out of interest I will check out Centro Commercial Sanicola. Cheers


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## rocco850 (Sep 5, 2014)

One thing to remember if you plan to buy in Italy and are not a resident you will be buying a second house. It is considered a second house or vacation home no matter if you own another home or not somewhere else in the world. What this means is you will be paying double the tax on the home at closing. This is not negotiable. Also this is not the tax based on what you paid for the house but on what the italian state deems the houses value. In many areas of Italy house prices are below the value by a considerable amount. In our case the value placed on the home by the state was double what we paid. Sound great but really it is not. There are many vacant properties and few buyers because of the economic state. This is especially true in the South of Italy where we bought. Double taxes and fees can be a considerable sum of money. When we closed on the house we paid a third of the value of the home in taxes and fee to the notaio. No kidding 33%! It was a surprise for us for sure as we had been told it would be half this one day and when we arrived at the notaio it was doubled.

Don't get me wrong we are happy with the house. The little village is just what we were looking for. Simple life, great people, fantastic food and beautiful vistas in all directions. On a pension so no need to work. Thank goodness because there are no jobs in the area.

Be prepared to spend some time perhaps a considerable amount waiting in line and offices and being told there is another document needed. My experiences has taught me to ask up front for a list of all documents required ans still there will be one more


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