# Include parents in your Visa Application for Immigration



## sajid021 (Nov 15, 2012)

Hi All

Can anyone help me to find out any risk associated with parents being included in visa application. 

My agent told me not to include your parents as it is quite possible that due to their health issues your visa may get rejected.

I am statying in UAE with my mother and wife under my sponsorship. I want to include both on my visa application. My mother has no any critical desease but was diagnose some minor which is just because of her age factor.

pls suggest


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## Guest (Feb 4, 2013)

Is it just your mother, where is your father? 

Does she live in your home? 

Does she work or have income from anywhere? 

How is her general health?


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## UdayBASIS (Dec 24, 2012)

sajid021 said:


> Hi All
> 
> Can anyone help me to find out any risk associated with parents being included in visa application.
> 
> ...


Hi Sajid,

The reason, why agents prefer not to take 'Parents' on board a PR application is the Medical fact.

You have already explained that, your mother might be having age related health issues.
In this case, the chance of Your whole family Unit's PR application getting affected due to mother's health status is undeniable.

The below could be a much safer bet, provided, there is somebody at UAE to take care of Your mother, until You get settled in Australia!.

You and your wife take PR, then once settled in OZ(May be 6 months), apply for a Family Sponsored visa(Not sure about the visa name - forgive me for that) for your mother, which I think, You can get for a long duration (may be 3 years and more) and it would be a sponsored visa.


BR,
Uday


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## Guest (Feb 4, 2013)

UdayBASIS said:


> Hi Sajid,
> 
> The reason, why agents prefer not to take 'Parents' on board a PR application is the Medical fact.
> 
> ...


 Not necessarily true.

Many people with health problems get permanent visas for Australia. Myself included, I have epilepsy. 

Many health issues are acceptable if 

1, they will not cost the Australia government a lot in health care, welfare benefits and social care. Normal old age health care is not usually excessively expensive in the same way cancer, HIV, Chronic and quickly progressive illnesses are.

2, They are not a hazard to the Australian community ie TB

3, The benefit of having the main applicants in Australia outweighs what costs the dependent with poor health will cost. 

Yes you could apply for a long stay tourist visa for your parents but it is just a tourist visa. No work, No healthcare, No welfare and always classed as an international person when it comes to charging for services. You would also need to prove intent for them to return home at the end of the visa, difficult if you are the only child they have, they don't have work back home, don't own property back home etc.

To sponsor a parent for PR later you need to be resident in Australia for 2 years. The parent also needs to pass the balance of family test. ie more children in Australia as PR than in any other country.


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## espresso (Nov 2, 2012)

Hi sajid021, 

to add to __shel_'s excellent post: You should really think about this in detail. There is a considerable queue for non-contributory parent visa applicants. As published by DIAC in an article about the Parent Visa Queue: 



> Based on current planning levels, if your are applying for a Parent (non-contributory) visa you can expect an approximate *15 year wait* before visa grant consideration after being allocated a queue date.


If you want your parents to join you permanently in Australia in the next couple of years you will either need the funds to pay for a Contributory Parent visa (expect wait: 12-24 months before visa grant consideration; cost per parent more than 40,000 AUD) or include them in your application now. As __shel_ mentioned not all parents can be included, they have to pass the medicals and be _dependent_ on you. Read the information on Including family members on the SkillSelect page. Most people - me included - cannot just include their parents in the application. 

Recommended reading: DIAC Booklet 3 - Parent Migration

All the best, 
Monika


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## sajid021 (Nov 15, 2012)

_shel said:


> Is it just your mother, where is your father?
> 
> Does she live in your home?
> 
> ...


Hi shel, 
Thanks for yr reply,

My father is passed away on 1987.
She is house wife and dnt work
General health is good, she is not a diabetic or suger issues but her readings are on the border line. Apart of this due to weight she has soiling on her legs etc

Sajid


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## sajid021 (Nov 15, 2012)

_shel said:


> Not necessarily true.
> 
> Many people with health problems get permanent visas for Australia. Myself included, I have epilepsy.
> 
> ...


Very detailed answer shel, thank you very much, by the grace of God my mom have no issues mentioed above. wht do u advice shall i include her or look for other option i.e temporary visa?
I have two brothers but i prefare to live with mother, in this case pls guide me.

Sajid


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## Guest (Feb 4, 2013)

sajid021 said:


> Hi shel,
> Thanks for yr reply,
> 
> My father is passed away on 1987.
> ...


 Personally i would add her now. She has no major health issues and meets the requirements of dependency. It wouldn't take any longer to process and yes it is 1 fail all fail but i see no reason she should fail to meet the requirements so long as you have the documentation to prove her dependency on you. Proof she lives with you, proof of no income and your fathers death certificate should do it.


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## sajid021 (Nov 15, 2012)

espresso said:


> Hi sajid021,
> 
> to add to __shel_'s excellent post: You should really think about this in detail. There is a considerable queue for non-contributory parent visa applicants. As published by DIAC in an article about the Parent Visa Queue:
> 
> ...


Thanks Espresso,

Very helpful post. I have two more brothers, one is living in Pakistan and other in USA(on green card) and my mother is used to travel to both location. She has residance visa of UAE sponsored by me. In USA she used to travel on visa visa. Pls suggest wht shld i do

Thanks
Sajid


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## sajid021 (Nov 15, 2012)

_shel said:


> Personally i would add her now. She has no major health issues and meets the requirements of dependency. It wouldn't take any longer to process and yes it is 1 fail all fail but i see no reason she should fail to meet the requirements so long as you have the documentation to prove her dependency on you. Proof she lives with you, proof of no income and your fathers death certificate should do it.


Thanks shel,

I forgot to mention one thing, i have two more brothers one is living in pakistan and other in USA( ON GREEN CARD NOT CITIZEN) and my mother used to travel to USA and PAKISTAN every year. But yes she has residance visa of UAE under my sponsorship.

Yes i can show death certificate of father, but how can i provide proof of her no income?

Pls suggest
Sajid


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## espresso (Nov 2, 2012)

Hi sajid021, 

I would add her to your current application as well. Since she is widowed and living with you (even sponsored by you on an UAE visa) you should have good chances. Try to assess which bills/contracts you can submit that you paid/signed in her name (medicals, daily living expenses, flights, rental agreements etc.). Go through the points listed on the Including Family Members page again and think about evidence you can provide in each section. You should also consider that one of the criteria is that your mother should 



> have no other relative able to care for them in their own country.


Any reasons why your brother in Pakistan cannot car for your mother? Maybe he is unmarried and cannot look after her during the day? I'm sure you'll think of something .

All the best, 
Monika


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## sajid021 (Nov 15, 2012)

espresso said:


> Hi sajid021,
> 
> I would add her to your current application as well. Since she is widowed and living with you (even sponsored by you on an UAE visa) you should have good chances. Try to assess which bills/contracts you can submit that you paid/signed in her name (medicals, daily living expenses, flights, rental agreements etc.). Go through the points listed on the Including Family Members page again and think about evidence you can provide in each section. You should also consider that one of the criteria is that your mother should
> 
> ...


Thanks Monika,

My brother is married and my mother feels more comfortable to stay with me and me too. However she frequently travel to pakistan and stay with elder brother too.


Sajid


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## Guest (Feb 4, 2013)

sajid021 said:


> Thanks shel,
> 
> I forgot to mention one thing, i have two more brothers one is living in pakistan and other in USA( ON GREEN CARD NOT CITIZEN) and my mother used to travel to USA and PAKISTAN every year. But yes she has residance visa of UAE under my sponsorship.
> 
> ...


 With brothers living outside of Australia you would not be able to sponsor her later but you can add her to your visa as the same requirements do not apply.

You show her bank statements showing she has no income going in other than from you or maybe your brothers. 
You show the visas you both have for UAE which shows she is with you. Perhaps some letters addressed to her at your address. This shoes she is dependent on you for her needs.


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## sajid021 (Nov 15, 2012)

_shel said:


> With brothers living outside of Australia you would not be able to sponsor her later but you can add her to your visa as the same requirements do not apply.
> 
> You show her bank statements showing she has no income going in other than from you or maybe your brothers.
> You show the visas you both have for UAE which shows she is with you. Perhaps some letters addressed to her at your address. This shoes she is dependent on you for her needs.


Thanks shel, your comments are really valuable....

My agent has already lodged EOI two days before without mother details, will he able to add mother at this stage? In addition, i have applied for NSW SS, on that form my agent has entered no. Of dependent 1 i.e for wife. In this case will it be any issue. Because if agent modify EOI details then there will be mismatch between EOI form NSW form. If i get NSW approval, is there a chance they create issue regarding this mismatch.

Pls advice


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## ChrisJAnderson (Dec 17, 2012)

This post has got me a lot worried. I have just started the process of Australian pr. My dad is currently working in the UAE and mum is a housewife. Both are 49 at the moment. I understand that I can't include them as dependents since dad is earning 4 times than me. But I would like both to join me in Australia after his retirement. Is there no way for me to achieve this? By the way I also have two sisters here so they fail the bof test as well.


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## Guest (Feb 4, 2013)

While there are more siblings outside of australia than in, no you can not sponsor them for PR.

Sajid you need to update your EOI asap and instruct your agent what you want them to do that you are paying them for!!!


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## kark (Oct 16, 2012)

sajid021 said:


> Thanks shel,
> 
> I forgot to mention one thing, i have two more brothers one is living in pakistan and other in USA( ON GREEN CARD NOT CITIZEN) and my mother used to travel to USA and PAKISTAN every year. But yes she has residance visa of UAE under my sponsorship.
> 
> ...



Sajid

I think you may not be able to include your mom because one of the condition for

Other dependent relatives is

have no other relative able to care for them in their own country


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## Guest (Feb 5, 2013)

Rubbish!

Mum lives in UAE with the OP. One child in a country she needs visas for. And although she has a child in pakistan that is not where she lives now.


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## kark (Oct 16, 2012)

_shel said:


> Rubbish!
> 
> Mum lives in UAE with the OP. One child in a country she needs visas for. And although she has a child in pakistan that is not where she lives now.


may be im wrong but what do you mean by own country...in my understand the country you hold the passport ???there is some ambiguity


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## sajid021 (Nov 15, 2012)

_shel said:


> Rubbish!
> 
> Mum lives in UAE with the OP. One child in a country she needs visas for. And although she has a child in pakistan that is not where she lives now.


You are rite shel, but she used to travel to both child every year and stay there four to five months. Last time she visited pakistan and stay there almost 6 months.

Will this be a prob, does her frequent flying to other brothers shows that she has other sons also who can take care of her in my abcense.

Pls advice


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## Guest (Feb 5, 2013)

No ambiguity, DIAC would not expect someone to shove an elderly parent on a plane to live in a country even if tbe only one they hold citizenship to, when they in fact are living in another country and dependent on a person they are there with.

They also do not like to separate families which is why non migrating dependent family members must undergo health and medical assessments.


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## ChrisJAnderson (Dec 17, 2012)

Sajid I have also heard about a five year tourist visa for parents that allows 12 months in 18 months stay while I was searching for something for my parents. I would like opinions of seniors like Shel on it as they are more informed.


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## sajid021 (Nov 15, 2012)

sajid021 said:


> You are rite shel, but she used to travel to both child every year and stay there four to five months. Last time she visited pakistan and stay there almost 6 months.
> 
> Will this be a prob, does her frequent flying to other brothers shows that she has other sons also who can take care of her in my abcense.
> 
> Pls advice


Dear shel,

can you pls advice me on above query. I really need yr opinion

Thanks
Sajid


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## Guest (Feb 5, 2013)

sajid021 said:


> You are rite shel, but she used to travel to both child every year and stay there four to five months. Last time she visited pakistan and stay there almost 6 months.
> 
> Will this be a prob, does her frequent flying to other brothers shows that she has other sons also who can take care of her in my abcense.
> 
> Pls advice


 No I do not think so. Visiting family is all she is doing even if for extended periods at times. Day to day care, her housing and medical needs are usually attended to by you as the person she usually lives with. If she was dependent on them and not you she would be living with them the majority of them time and she is not. Living in the same household is the biggest test of dependency to DIAC after day to day needs and financial dependence. Visiting someone is not living with them her usual residence would still be with you.


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## sajid021 (Nov 15, 2012)

_shel said:


> No I do not think so. Visiting family is all she is doing even if for extended periods at times. Day to day care, her housing and medical needs are usually attended to by you as the person she usually lives with. If she was dependent on them and not you she would be living with them the majority of them time and she is not. Living in the same household is the biggest test of dependency to DIAC after day to day needs and financial dependence. Visiting someone is not living with them her usual residence would still be with you.


Many thanks shel for helping me.


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## Guest (Feb 5, 2013)

sajid021 said:


> Many thanks shel for helping me.


 Not a problem, I too do not like families to be split and I think many are under the misconception that they can take their nearest and dearest with them. 

Whilst there are strict requirements it is actually a fairly simple process to add parents if you are from a developing country so long as you meet the dependency and health requirements.

Not so if you are from a developed country with a welfare system, free or partially free health care and allowances if you can not work. So it is actually something you have in your favour, you get to keep your mum with you.


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## kark (Oct 16, 2012)

_shel said:


> Not a problem, I too do not like families to be split and I think many are under the misconception that they can take their nearest and dearest with them.
> 
> Whilst there are strict requirements it is actually a fairly simple process to add parents if you are from a developing country so long as you meet the dependency and health requirements.
> 
> Not so if you are from a developed country with a welfare system, free or partially free health care and allowances if you can not work. So it is actually something you have in your favour, you get to keep your mum with you.


well addressed shel...
but hv you heard of any such instances before in this forum or else where ?coz you are quite confident in telling this..but there was lot of ambiguity whn I read the immigration website


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## Guest (Feb 6, 2013)

I have honestly seen it many times on this and other forums since I started investigating my husbands citizenship by descent and my own spouse visa way back in 2008. 

I have seen lots of people from the UK try and include parents only to be rejected because they are not dependent due to having government provided pensions and health care. 

I have also seen many from developing countries happily take their parents with them. 

So long as they meet the requirements there is no reason why not and it does not mean you can your whole clan because that doesnt work!

If they genuinely live in your home, are not married or in a relationship, do not work and have no other source of income, meet the health and charterer requirements is what is says on the DIAC site, nothing more than what I say on here.


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## hawaiisurf (Jan 17, 2013)

espresso said:


> Hi sajid021,
> 
> to add to __shel_'s excellent post: You should really think about this in detail. There is a considerable queue for non-contributory parent visa applicants. As published by DIAC in an article about the Parent Visa Queue:
> 
> ...


Hi 
I have a quick question, 

Is it mandatory for my mother to give IELTS exam ? Can she just avoid the exam and can I say to the CO that I will pay 4200$ and for her adult english program in australia ( she is uncomfortable at this age to give an exam)?


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## Guest (Jun 10, 2013)

If she can not pass IELTS you simply pay the extra fee for English lessons.


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## hawaiisurf (Jan 17, 2013)

_shel said:


> If she can not pass IELTS you simply pay the extra fee for English lessons.



Actually I will be filing my EOI 189 soon. 
My husband and my mother are my dependents. 
Husband's education was in English and My mother's education was in native language. 

From the posts by other expats, I realized that my husbnad can just provide a letter from his college or univesity stating that the medium of education was english. If the CO insists for IELTS then he has to give the exam and get above 4.5 right? 

FOr my mother, can she avoid giving IELTS and can I say to the CO that I will pay 4200$ OR Is it mandatory that she first give IELTS? 

Please clarify.
Thanks
HS


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## Guest (Jun 10, 2013)

Did I not just answer that question?


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## hawaiisurf (Jan 17, 2013)

_shel said:


> Did I not just answer that question?


Hi Shel, 

thank you for your time and for the answer. 
But you have'nt exactly addressed my question. 

When you say "she cannot pass".....did you imply that, my mother first give the ielts exam and when she cannot pass THEN pay 4200$? 

OR directly pay 4200$ without even attempting the ielts exam?


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## VGrover (Sep 6, 2012)

Hello Shel/Senior Team Members,

First of all Thanks for the numerous informative posts on the forum. 

As Sajid, I also have my in-laws (both Mother-in-law and Father-in-law) who are dependent on us financially and they live with us as of now.
They both are 59 years old, we have included them as non-migrating dependents in our 189 application, but considering a loooooong queue for parent visa, we are thinking of including them in our PR application. 
As evident from the posts above , health is a major hurdle when parents are included, Fortunately, both the parents enjoy good health status , except that my mother-in-law had been detected with Osteoporosis 6 months back and she's only taking nutritional supplements for that . 
Our major concern is , if we include them in our application now, is it going to add delay in grant? If yes, how long will the application be delayed?
If there is a risk or long delay involved, Could you please suggest any other alternative through which we can call our parents to live with us for long term(we can take care of their health expenses)? 
Thanks.


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## Guest (Jul 17, 2013)

Regardless of your in laws health you should not include them in your application. A married couple can not be your dependents according to DIAC rules. It is irrelevant that you pay for all of their needs because they are adults and married. They are each others dependents and not yours.


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## VGrover (Sep 6, 2012)

Thanks for the reply shel, 
Is there any alternate way of getting them to Australia with us later excpet parent visa which takes really long time??


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## Guest (Jul 17, 2013)

Not really. You can sponsor them for the contributory parent visa after you have been resident for 2 years. It cost $40,000 each but is granted in 18 months. Much quicker than the other parent visa.


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## VGrover (Sep 6, 2012)

Yeah I read about it. One more thing of concern here is why it is required to put the dependents information in 189 application if a separate parent visa is required in any case ? 

Moreover what is the repercussion of adding /deleting them from our application at this point of time, taking into consideration that we have to apply for Parent/Contributory Parent visa later?


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## Guest (Jul 17, 2013)

Because dependents need medical and PCC checks even when not migrating.

Put them in other family if they are not dependent by DIAC standards.


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## VGrover (Sep 6, 2012)

Yeah I checked the dependent definition online on DIAC website and found the following 

To be considered a dependent relative you must prove they:
1> have no other relative able to care for them in their own country --- OK
2> are not currently married, engaged or in a de facto relationship --- NOK NOK NOK 
3> usually are a resident in your household ---- OK
4> depend on you for financial support for their basic needs and you have supported them for a substantial period -OK 
5> depend on you more than any other person or source. -- OK 
Point 3 is the one which you mentioned. SO we should put them under non-migrating family members as we will not be able to prove dependency.


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