# We want to live in Portugal



## Super Gibo

Hi Everyone,

My wife and I have recently made the decision that we want to move and live in Portugal. we've been toying with the idea for a long time, so it's not a choice made lightly. we have been visiting the Algarve for quite a number of years and absolutely love the way of life, climate, people, culture and just about everything else about the place ( except maybe some of the locals driving abilities.....lol ). our 2 kids who are 12 yrs old and 7yrs old consider it there 2nd home and my father in law lives there just outside of Loule as do a few of our family friends, so were hoping to move some where near to them all if we can.

Although we already have a link to the Algarve, I guess I'm looking for some advise on some of the things to look out for when taking steps to move out there, it would be great to get someone else's advise who's not family. I've worked in the building trade as a kitchen fitter for a long time and also have a good back ground in sales ( not kitchen sales ) and my wife has been a nurse in a learning disability home for about 7 years. I've got a couple of ideas for a business I'm hoping to set up as well, so if anyone has any advise on that, it would be really handy. 

Thanks for any advise you can give, it's really appreciated

All the best

Lee.


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## silvers

When starting a business, as well as the factors affecting the practical life of the company decisions have to be taken regarding the fiscal regime and type of company structure to be utilised. We will explain both in simple terms here

FISCAL REGIMES

There are two ways you can operate your accounting and reporting structure-regime simplificado (simplified regime) and regime geral (general regime).


Regime Simplificado

The simplified regime is designed for smaller businesses with lower turnovers that do not need, or could not afford an accountant. Once your turnover reaches a certain amount you are obliged, in fact, to change to the general regime.

Both individuals and companies can work under this regime. Rather than facturas (invoices) recibo verdes (green receipts) are used, a type of pro-forma that allows you to easily calculate IVA (VAT) and tax deductions.

When entering the simplified regime, there are a number of options regarding the charging of Iva and the method and amount of income tax deduction. Professional advice should be sought to ensure you make the correct choices and understand the requirements, as failure to comply will result in fines.

The simplified regime is good for small businesses, and those starting up. There is no requirement to retain the services of a TOC (accountant); administration and running costs are kept to a minimum. However, there are also serious downsides to this regime. All costs the person has are disregarded, as there is a set formula for assuming how much of your income is profit (varying from 20% to 65% depending on the type of activity). This does work well for some activities, however it is considered to be a lot higher than one would normally expect for a well run company, thus more tax will be paid. Once you have chosen this regime, you are forced to stay in it for 3 years, or until your sales turnover reaches 149 739,37€ for two consecutive years, or 25% greater than this in one year. If your business grows nicely (bit does not hit this limit), and has costs higher than that assumed by this regime, you could end up paying a lot more tax.



Regime Geral

The general regime is what most people consider a “normal” trading shell. It is compulsory to employ a TOC and provide quarterly returns of IVa and formal company accounts at the end of the trading year. Actual costs can be deducted and equipment etc. acquired can be written off. There are many other financial benefits that will give a fiscal benefit to a healthy company.

Pagamento especial por conta is a tax that companies within this regime must pay. This tax is 1% of turnover (not profit) and is paid every year after the first 2 years of activity. The minimum payment is 1,250 euros and the maximum payment is 70,000 euros.

It is possible to change from the general regime to the simplified regime if you wish.

In summary, the general regime is for small and medium sized businesses that can afford the services of an accountant, have a degree of allowable costs and want to maximise the fiscal benefits available.



COMPANY STRUCTURES

One of the key choices you must make at the inception of your business is the type of company you wish to use. There are both practical and fiscal considerations which will affect your choice.


Empresário em Nome Individual or Empresa Individual

This is a type of company where it is run by one person who has sole responsibility for the actions and liabilities of the company. The owner of the company is personally (and without limitation) responsible for any debts the company has.

There is no need for any social capital, as there is no limit to the liability of the owner.

Within this form of company, the owner has total control but also total liability. The profits of the company form part of the yearly personal IRS of the owner, leading to simplified administration.

It is difficult to attract outside investment to a company of this type, as there are no shares to sell.

This form of company is recommended for activities that have a low risk, and do not need investment on a large scale.


Sociedade por Quotas

This type of company is the most commonly used, particularly for small and medium sized companies. A minimum of two share holders (which can be individuals or companies) are required, and the liability of the shareholders is limited to the amount of the capital (capital social). A minimum capital if 5,000 euros is required, divided into shares (quotas) between the shareholders (socios).

This type of company must have a manager (gerente) appointed which can be, but does not have to be, one of the shareholders.

The personal responsibility of the shareholders is limited to their share of the capital. Their personal wealth and goods are safeguarded (therefore the personal risk is minimal), however the appointed manager of the firm is personally and totally liable for debts to the state (IVA and Social Security). By having more than one shareholder, experience, investment and knowledge can be shared. If credit is required, banks will often look favourably upon this type of company, as there are a number of shareholders who can each act as guarantors.

If the company is formed with a large amount of capital, the personal risk to the shareholders is greater.

It should be noted that no one person has total control over the company, which can be a negative point when important decisions need to be taken and an accord is needed.

This type of company is taxed under the IRC (corporation tax) regime, and profits/losses can not be utilised by the shareholders as part of their personal IRS.

A company of this form is recommended when a limited liability is desirable, and when it is beneficial to work in partnership with one or more other parties, either for financial or practical reasons.


Sociedade Unipessoal por Quotas

This is a type of company, which is effectively the same as a Sociedade por Quotas, with the only difference being that there is one unique shareholder, rather than a number of shareholders.

The rules regarding capital and liability etc are the same.

This form of company is recommended in cases where a higher risk is inherent, but with low initial investment. Importantly, when this is compared to an empresa individual, the main fiscal difference is that the profits and losses stay within the company, rather than being part of the owners IRS.


Sociedade Anónima

Another type of company with limited liability, with a minimum social capital of 50,000 euros, and a minimum of 5 shareholders (or investors).

Companies of this type have a more complicated organisational structure, more complicated administration, higher initial investment and higher running costs. For these reasons, it is unlikely that anyone starting their first business would consider a Sociedade Anónima.


Other types of Sociedade

There are two other types of company that are worth mentioning, sociedades em nome colectivo and sociedades em comandita.

Sociedades em nome colectivo
In this form of company, the shareholders (socios), are personally responsible for all the debts and responsibilities of the company. There has to be a minimum of two shareholders.

Sociedades em comandita
This is an unusual form of company, that has shareholders with limited responsibility (those who have contributed to the initial share capital), and shareholders that have unlimited responsibility (those who assume the management and control of the company on a day to day basis). The minimum number of shareholders is two (or five if the share capital is held in “acções”).


CONCLUSION

Whilst there are many different types of company that can be formed, historically the most popular are those that reduce the liability of the shareholders.

At the time of writing (July 2006) the Portuguese government is in the process of implementing a number of measures that will simplify, amongst other things, the formation and administration of companies. This will both reduce the time and costs business owners incur. More information can be found at http://www.ucma.gov.pt/simplex/


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## omostra06

Hi Lee, welcome to the forum


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## Super Gibo

omostra06 said:


> Hi Lee, welcome to the forum


Thanks for that, i'll make sure to check it out. thanks also for the info on business, should prove usefull.


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## fionae

*Go for it!*

I have lived in the Algarve for nearly 10 years and it´s the best thing ever. My husband has an 2 bed apartment to rent in Quarteira which is 10 mins from Loule if you are interested. Also we have work opportunities for you, these are commission only and have no limit. Get in contact if you are interested!



Super Gibo said:


> Hi Everyone,
> 
> My wife and I have recently made the decision that we want to move and live in Portugal. we've been toying with the idea for a long time, so it's not a choice made lightly. we have been visiting the Algarve for quite a number of years and absolutely love the way of life, climate, people, culture and just about everything else about the place ( except maybe some of the locals driving abilities.....lol ). our 2 kids who are 12 yrs old and 7yrs old consider it there 2nd home and my father in law lives there just outside of Loule as do a few of our family friends, so were hoping to move some where near to them all if we can.
> 
> Although we already have a link to the Algarve, I guess I'm looking for some advise on some of the things to look out for when taking steps to move out there, it would be great to get someone else's advise who's not family. I've worked in the building trade as a kitchen fitter for a long time and also have a good back ground in sales ( not kitchen sales ) and my wife has been a nurse in a learning disability home for about 7 years. I've got a couple of ideas for a business I'm hoping to set up as well, so if anyone has any advise on that, it would be really handy.
> 
> Thanks for any advise you can give, it's really appreciated
> 
> All the best
> 
> Lee.


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## Mr.Blueskies

Hi Super Gibo,

"Although portugal is an E.U. country, this is where the
similarity ends ! Life here although very nice, is absolutely nothing like
what you are used to in the uk and in my opinion anything that you have
learned in the uk will be worthless and non applicable here.

So you know, it is not that expats who are living here are
all being negative and just trying to put you and others off (although this
is how it seems I know) it is just that they know (because they have
already seen it ) that people coming here with a uk mentality and mindset
who actually know nothing, or very little about day to day living here and
about the economy, the markets, the culture and the language are almost
CERTAINLY doomed to fail.

I was extremely lucky and fortunate in that I was able to come
here for a year, first on a trial basis and just to rent so that I could see and
discover these things first hand and for myself. Although it hascot me a tidy
sum to do this, it was money well spent and only now after 10 months of
living here, do I feel that I know enough to now make good sensible 
choices based on the facts and not on some preconceived pipe dream and
idealistic fantasy that I had from afar. Do not think that I am having a go at
you, because this is certainly not the case. I just don't want to see anyone
jumping in feet first with rose tinted blinkers on, that's all. By all means give
it a go, but it is nothing like the uk.


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## patsy

Hi gibo dont know if you have made the move already, but we moved to portugal a few years ago, whith our son my advice to you is have a good look round because what is good for others may not be ok for your family most folks come to retire and dont have a child .Like you we had to think of our child as well if you need any information about the shcools ect just i will try to give my honest answers patsy


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## Super Gibo

Hi,
Thanks guy's for all the advise, it's really good to hear other people's experiences, i think the problem is as Mr Blueskies said before, it's really easy to see the whole thing through rose coloured glasses, and not to see the pit falls we could face, i know thing are not going to be the same as in the UK, and that our options will be a little more limited, but we are still pretty sure that this is the life style we are looking for.
My wife and i are pretty much set on the idea of moving over to Portugal, but we are just not sure when to do it know, financially we could do with being in a slightly better position, so we will at least wait for that to get better before we attempt anything.
One of my biggest hesitations is weather or not i will be able to pick up work or not, does anybody know of any good websites i could check out, or if any one has any good advise about finding work out there. I was thinking of working for myself out there, but I'm not sure that is such a sensible thing to do straight away.
Thanks again for all the advise, it's nice to know that there are so many people willing to offer help and advise.
Lee


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## John999

*Moving to Portugal*

Hi Lee 
You have to kids at school age, and you have to be aware that the school system here is completely different than the UK. In particular for the 12 years old, because, even in a private school he will have to achieve the minimum grades to pass, or else he will stay behind, and having to repeat the same school year on the fallowing one. As older they are, as harder will be, in particular, the Portuguese language, (Grammatik), and Portuguese History. Keep that in mind
All the best
John 999


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## cotton32

*Moving to Portugal---July 2010*

Hi Fionae,

I was reading your post and I would like to get some more information on your apartment and also possible employment. My wife and I went to the Algarve last summer and we fell in love with place. We decided to make the move and we are starting the visa process in Feb 2010 with the hopes of arriving in July 2010. We made some contacts in Loule but we are also looking for some more contacts concerning employment. I would appreciate any information on the apartment and also the job if they are still available. We are planning to stay at least a year. I look forward to hearing from you.

Warm regards,
joe







fionae said:


> I have lived in the Algarve for nearly 10 years and it´s the best thing ever. My husband has an 2 bed apartment to rent in Quarteira which is 10 mins from Loule if you are interested. Also we have work opportunities for you, these are commission only and have no limit. Get in contact if you are interested!


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## Bevdeforges

cotton32 said:


> Hi Fionae,
> 
> I was reading your post and I would like to get some more information on your apartment and also possible employment. My wife and I went to the Algarve last summer and we fell in love with place. We decided to make the move and we are starting the visa process in Feb 2010 with the hopes of arriving in July 2010. We made some contacts in Loule but we are also looking for some more contacts concerning employment. I would appreciate any information on the apartment and also the job if they are still available. We are planning to stay at least a year. I look forward to hearing from you.
> 
> Warm regards,
> joe


Joe, just be advised that most of the other posters in this thread are EU nationals and thus don't have the same visa concerns you and your wife will have. For someone to hire you in Portugal, they will have to justify hiring a non-EU national over any possible Portuguese or other EU national available for work.
Cheers,
Bev


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## cotton32

Bev,

Thanks, I am fully aware of the visa requirements. I have been to the Portuguese consulate 4 times and our visa which will allow us both to work has been all but secured. It is really not as difficult as you would think! But we will be arriving in Sunny Portugal next summer with a long stay work visa.

Cheers

Joe 





Bevdeforges said:


> Joe, just be advised that most of the other posters in this thread are EU nationals and thus don't have the same visa concerns you and your wife will have. For someone to hire you in Portugal, they will have to justify hiring a non-EU national over any possible Portuguese or other EU national available for work.
> Cheers,
> Bev


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## jojo

cotton32 said:


> Bev,
> 
> Thanks, I am fully aware of the visa requirements. I have been to the Portuguese consulate 4 times and our visa which will allow us both to work has been all but secured. It is really not as difficult as you would think! But we will be arriving in Sunny Portugal next summer with a long stay work visa.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Joe


Its really nice to hear a success story on here Joe. Keep us posted as to how you get on and hopefully you could impart some of your knowledge on the visa thing with some of the newbies!! Cos I, for one have never managed to get my head around it! 

Portugal is a lovely place, we considered it when we were looking to move, but Spain won cos the flights were better to the UK and there seemed to be more work opportunities at the time, mind you, that was before the credit crunch!! But Portugal does seem a lot more laid back than Spain! 

Jo xxx


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## omostra06

Everyone knows someone that is always saying work is hard to find, there are no jobs around etc etc!
even in the uk we all know people that dont work and blame everyone else and everything else.

The same thing applies here in Portugal, some people come here to relax and enjoy the sunshine and the lifestyle, they dont want to work here. so they will never find a job, because they dont want one!

some people do want to find work, or do have to find work to make the move to portugal, these types of people will find a job or will start a business, and quite possibly do better here in portugal than they would have in the uk, there are some great opertunities here in portugal for people that want to work.

We started two businesses here in portugal from scratch, they both do well, we employ quite a few people half locals half expats, its fairly easy to run a business here, or find a job here, if you really want to find work. 

I think anyone coming here looking for work will find a job quite easilly, as long as they want to work, if they come here needing to find work for an income but expect to spend the day drinking beer and sunbathng then think again! chances are you will run out of money and have to go back.

an example of someone who wants a job and to move here to Portugal and does something about it,happend to me last week.

I got a call from a guy called chris, living in the uk, asking if we had any jobs, i said yes we do have some openings, he said ok i will fly in to see you, he did fly in, we met last week and he starts working for us full time in November. I guess he found it easy to get a job here.
well done chris looking forward to having you join our team.
There is work for those that want it. (we are still looking for more staff, if anyone else needs a job!)


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## PETERFC

*Gizza job Derek*

Derek 

I hope you are old enough to remember the Tv program Boys from the blackstuff. How's this for a job application.

Peter :clap2:


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## cotton32

I completely agree with you post!!!! Life is what you make of it, plain and simple. My wife and I are heading over in July 2010 and we will find jobs! It would be great to find a job before we come over but that isn't going to stop us from going over if we don't.

We are both hard-working people and we want experience a culture other that the one we have here in the states.


What kind of businesses do you own? will you still be looking for employees in July?







omostra06 said:


> Everyone knows someone that is always saying work is hard to find, there are no jobs around etc etc!
> even in the uk we all know people that dont work and blame everyone else and everything else.
> 
> The same thing applies here in Portugal, some people come here to relax and enjoy the sunshine and the lifestyle, they dont want to work here. so they will never find a job, because they dont want one!
> 
> some people do want to find work, or do have to find work to make the move to portugal, these types of people will find a job or will start a business, and quite possibly do better here in portugal than they would have in the uk, there are some great opertunities here in portugal for people that want to work.
> 
> We started two businesses here in portugal from scratch, they both do well, we employ quite a few people half locals half expats, its fairly easy to run a business here, or find a job here, if you really want to find work.
> 
> I think anyone coming here looking for work will find a job quite easilly, as long as they want to work, if they come here needing to find work for an income but expect to spend the day drinking beer and sunbathng then think again! chances are you will run out of money and have to go back.
> 
> an example of someone who wants a job and to move here to Portugal and does something about it,happend to me last week.
> 
> I got a call from a guy called chris, living in the uk, asking if we had any jobs, i said yes we do have some openings, he said ok i will fly in to see you, he did fly in, we met last week and he starts working for us full time in November. I guess he found it easy to get a job here.
> well done chris looking forward to having you join our team.
> There is work for those that want it. (we are still looking for more staff, if anyone else needs a job!)


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## omostra06

PETERFC666 said:


> Derek
> 
> I hope you are old enough to remember the Tv program Boys from the blackstuff. How's this for a job application.
> 
> Peter :clap2:
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lvTXRdLtz5w


sorry peter, but iam not sure you would be right for our organisation....


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## Mr.Blueskies

"Gizza job ?


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