# ref 99% chance we are taking a bar on i about 4 wks help please with legal issues etc



## jkchawner (Dec 21, 2008)

hi me and the better half (worse really) are flying out to alicante this weekend to view a combined house and business package.
what we need to no as we are completly new to all of this is all the nitty gritty in,s and out,s legal wise etc on running a bar.
over in the uk we no all there is to no about it licences etc
what do we need to no about running one in spain ?
whats the pit falls to watch out for etc ?
the bar is a well established one with good profits and bookwork to prove etc so thats not an issue really. 
what and who do we have to register with to be legal to work and live in spain etc etc ?
also another matter i have an insurance policy in the uk a traders policy that allows me to drive any car van etc fully comp.can i get the same in spain and whats the costs compared with uk will it be the same or dont they do such a thing in spain?

all help will be great as we are completly new to all of this and need help asap this something we will be doing in the future if not this time.

and before u gun us down in flames i am looking in to the books side of things etc with the bar with a finetooth comb.
i dont want to take on a lame horse myself !
thanks all


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

jkchawner said:


> hi me and the better half (worse really) are flying out to alicante this weekend to view a combined house and business package.
> what we need to no as we are completly new to all of this is all the nitty gritty in,s and out,s legal wise etc on running a bar.
> over in the uk we no all there is to no about it licences etc
> what do we need to no about running one in spain ?
> ...


Mate, be careful! I dont know anything about bars or businesses so I cant help you, but there are so many rules and regulations out here that need looking at perhaps you should get a spanish Jestor or Abogado to look into it as well????? 

Sorry, I dont mean to nag, you are a grown up afterall!!!!? Is it the one you were looking into???

Jo xx


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## jkchawner (Dec 21, 2008)

jojo said:


> Mate, be careful! I dont know anything about bars or businesses so I cant help you, but there are so many rules and regulations out here that need looking at perhaps you should get a spanish Jestor or Abogado to look into it as well?????
> 
> Sorry, I dont mean to nag, you are a grown up afterall!!!!? Is it the one you were looking into???
> 
> Jo xx


yes its the one i sent u the info on.
the guy is a real nice old chap from up north he brought it as a package last year along with a lot of other property and 2 other business,s. it was a pure business profit package for him no other reason. he has as u will have seen on the info i sent you. had someone running the bar for the past year while refurbing it at the same time. it was going to be a retirment package for him but he has changed his mind on the idea. and now just wants to rent all his property out for his retirment income.
(he,s that secret millionaire all your women want lol)

thats the lowdown on it really its been making around £500 -£1000 a week profit since running for the last year with proof books etc depending on time of year etc. the owner has even told us if its ran right he will reduce rent etc in the winter when are takings are not as ggod as he would rather have good tennents and keep them than be greedy and lose them.
he,s a very fair man indeed.
its a big chance to take we no. as we will have to sell up everything we have and make the move within 4 - 5 wks we think.
one we are prepaired to do if all the sums add up.
(everything in life is a gamble) im just trying to reduce the odds thats all.


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## XTreme (May 17, 2008)

Be careful!


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

jkchawner said:


> yes its the one i sent u the info on.
> the guy is a real nice old chap from up north he brought it as a package last year along with a lot of other property and 2 other business,s. it was a pure business profit package for him no other reason. he has as u will have seen on the info i sent you. had someone running the bar for the past year while refurbing it at the same time. it was going to be a retirment package for him but he has changed his mind on the idea. and now just wants to rent all his property out for his retirment income.
> (he,s that secret millionaire all your women want lol)
> 
> ...


See what the others on here say. Sounds like I can hear a match striking on your UK bridge tho...... and what do I always say?? dont burn your bridges LOL!!

You know I´m gonna have to drive over and have a drink at this bar dont you and its a long way!!!!!! 

Keep us posted and make sure you look into everything, one thing springs to mind, check that the wholesalers will deal with you, I have heard of new landlords being refused credit and not being able to buy the drinks, food etc. I´ll ask my friend who´s an estate agent and very knowledgable if she has any useful tips

Jo xx


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## jkchawner (Dec 21, 2008)

jojo said:


> See what the others on here say. Sounds like I can hear a match striking on your UK bridge tho...... and what do I always say?? dont burn your bridges LOL!!
> 
> You know I´m gonna have to drive over and have a drink at this bar dont you and its a long way!!!!!!
> 
> ...


jo the best i can do from myside is to check the books ask around when im there etc and try and get a feel for the place myself.
if he has cooked the books i will no anyway i have been in business a long time myself as you no.
its a masssive gamble we no and all points good or bad raised on here will not be taken lightly thats why im asking its no use asking in less you take all advice and digest it is it ?
i can run any bar nightclub etc with my eyes closed ive had 3 over the years but they were in the uk not in spain.
thats were we no nothing about it the spainish side of it. i can walk in the tomorrow and run it thats easy bit !
all advice will be left to run around in my grey matter i can assure you


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## jkchawner (Dec 21, 2008)

XTreme said:


> Be careful!


oh dont worry i will be i dont want to light the matchs on the bridge just yet !

just looked at your video lol

be carefull


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

jkchawner said:


> jo the best i can do from myside is to check the books ask around when im there etc and try and get a feel for the place myself.
> if he has cooked the books i will no anyway i have been in business a long time myself as you no.
> its a masssive gamble we no and all points good or bad raised on here will not be taken lightly thats why im asking its no use asking in less you take all advice and digest it is it ?
> i can run any bar nightclub etc with my eyes closed ive had 3 over the years but they were in the uk not in spain.
> ...


Please dont take this the wrong way, but if you have to ask on here then you really haven't done enough research and need to take great care moving forward

All bars are doing very well, and are profitable. You wont get a feel for it sitting in the UK, the only way you will know for sure is to get over here and watch the place. Dont tell them you are coming, so they dont get rent a crowd in. Then you need to go to a good business gestoria.

It may well be that you have fallen on one of the profitable good bars in Spain .... I hope so, but the odds are against you so just take care and dont get parted from your money easily. Theres a good saying .... if it sounds too good to be true then it probably is.


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## jkchawner (Dec 21, 2008)

Stravinsky said:


> Please dont take this the wrong way, but if you have to ask on here then you really haven't done enough research and need to take great care moving forward
> 
> All bars are doing very well, and are profitable. You wont get a feel for it sitting in the UK, the only way you will know for sure is to get over here and watch the place. Dont tell them you are coming, so they dont get rent a crowd in. Then you need to go to a good business gestoria.
> 
> It may well be that you have fallen on one of the profitable good bars in Spain .... I hope so, but the odds are against you so just take care and dont get parted from your money easily. Theres a good saying .... if it sounds too good to be true then it probably is.


point taken but its the legal side we need info on to be frank
licences were and what we have to register etc etc
im very aware of the countless pitfalls involved with any business i have been self employed all my life and this would be my 4th bar inc 2 owned outright. and my mrs is a mangeress of a large pub now.
we have freinds and relatives in benidorm who are going to do some snooping around for us.
its a gamble we no but one we are prepaired to take if the sums add up.
any help on legal side and genral things we need to do to come and live and work in spain please would be great
regards shaun


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

jkchawner said:


> point taken but its the legal side we need info on to be frank
> licences were and what we have to register etc etc
> im very aware of the countless pitfalls involved with any business i have been self employed all my life and this would be my 4th bar inc 2 owned outright. and my mrs is a mangeress of a large pub now.
> we have freinds and relatives in benidorm who are going to do some snooping around for us.
> ...


But you aint owned a bar in Spain mate and been subjected to the prejudices that are often reported. Obviously by the sounds of it you need to get a gestoria when you come to research all the licencing etc
Good luck


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## Cazzy (Nov 23, 2008)

We are thinking of doing the same in our village, We know that our village needs another bar, and the natives are very friendly. The national Insurance contributions are the killer, as it is euro 260 per persom regardless of what you earn a month. As for everything else we are still looking into it!! I hope all goes well for you, but be very careful!
Caz


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## SteveHall (Oct 17, 2008)

Cazzy said:


> We are thinking of doing the same in our village, We know that our village needs another bar, and the natives are very friendly. The national Insurance contributions are the killer, as it is euro 260 per persom regardless of what you earn a month. As for everything else we are still looking into it!! I hope all goes well for you, but be very careful!
> Caz


....are there enough expats in your area? In all the years I have been here I have NEVER EVER ONCE seen an expat owned bar survive in a Spanish area based on Spanish Spanish clientele. When push comes to shove the Spaniards will always vote Spanish. OBVIOUSLY if you have a Spanish partner and /or have lived here 30years, have native children and speak fluent Spanish you have a chance but otheriwse...... 

As for JKChawner, I am sorry I am not even going to continue. To open a bar in Benidorm at this moment is just not something I'd even consider. I would think it would be less risky and more fun to simply flush your very last cent down the loo. I hate being so blunt but I am seeing so many bars collapse. One of my best friends has sold commercial properties to expats for many years and in addition to all that I have seen I hear his professional experiences. 

I wish you both every success.


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## Tallulah (Feb 16, 2009)

jkchawner said:


> point taken but its the legal side we need info on to be frank
> licences were and what we have to register etc etc
> im very aware of the countless pitfalls involved with any business i have been self employed all my life and this would be my 4th bar inc 2 owned outright. and my mrs is a mangeress of a large pub now.
> we have freinds and relatives in benidorm who are going to do some snooping around for us.
> ...


Hi Shaun,

As everyone's saying - be very careful - get yourself down to the Gestoria to look over everything for you. Wishing you both the very best of luck though - we're keeping our fingers crossed for you. May pop down there myself if I ever get to do this tour of Spain I've always promised myself. Mine's a V&T by the way!

Tallulah.x


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## Cazzy (Nov 23, 2008)

SteveHall said:


> ....are there enough expats in your area? In all the years I have been here I have NEVER EVER ONCE seen an expat owned bar survive in a Spanish area based on Spanish Spanish clientele. When push comes to shove the Spaniards will always vote Spanish. OBVIOUSLY if you have a Spanish partner and /or have lived here 30years, have native children and speak fluent Spanish you have a chance but otheriwse......
> 
> As for JKChawner, I am sorry I am not even going to continue. To open a bar in Benidorm at this moment is just not something I'd even consider. I would think it would be less risky and more fun to simply flush your very last cent down the loo. I hate being so blunt but I am seeing so many bars collapse. One of my best friends has sold commercial properties to expats for many years and in addition to all that I have seen I hear his professional experiences.
> 
> I wish you both every success.


There are a lot of Expats in our area and the surrounding villages, It is a very integrated community between the expats and the spanish, I think the Spanish would use it. But more research is needed, though the mayor is fully behind it as he feels the village would benefit.


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## Tallulah (Feb 16, 2009)

Afraid I really don't know much about the areas you're all talking about here, but where we are, the bars all seem to be thriving...in fact we all comment where the hell is the crisis if they're still so busy....doesn't really seem to stop anyone drinking and eating tapas/playing cards. In fact a little one in our village has just reopened and is undercutting prices elsewhere in the area - we asked how comes they're so cheap in comparison to other bars - they said they aren't concerned with making a huge profit, it's a question of survival now and they're happy just to make a living. And they are full absolutely every day. Maybe it's a zone thing, I don't know?

Tallulah.x


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

My_Name_is_Tallulah said:


> Afraid I really don't know much about the areas you're all talking about here, but where we are, the bars all seem to be thriving...in fact we all comment where the hell is the crisis if they're still so busy....doesn't really seem to stop anyone drinking and eating tapas/playing cards. In fact a little one in our village has just reopened and is undercutting prices elsewhere in the area - we asked how comes they're so cheap in comparison to other bars - they said they aren't concerned with making a huge profit, it's a question of survival now and they're happy just to make a living. And they are full absolutely every day. Maybe it's a zone thing, I don't know?
> 
> Tallulah.x



I think as you say, the spanish run local bars are less concerned with profit, most older ex franco generation spaniards tend to still be content with making a living and getting on with life as opposed to huge profits and success (just my thoughts??)

The bar Shawn is looking at I believe, is on the coast in the tourist area, which has a totally different mentality, set of rules and objectives.... I could be wrong! 

However, forums are funny things arent they, it feels like Shawn and Mrs Shawn are friends and I really want it to work for them, as I´m sure we all do. But that also means if we can see dangers then we need to make sure that we at least make em aware - sadly I think this maybe the case!

Jo


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## Tallulah (Feb 16, 2009)

The bar Shawn is looking at I believe, is on the coast in the tourist area, which has a totally different mentality, set of rules and objectives.... I could be wrong! 

However, forums are funny things arent they, it feels like Shawn and Mrs Shawn are friends and I really want it to work for them, as I´m sure we all do. But that also means if we can see dangers then we need to make sure that we at least make em aware - sadly I think this maybe the case!

Jo[/QUOTE]

I really hope it works out for them - seem like really nice people. And hopefully the Gestorias in those more touristy areas are able to speak English and take them through all the legalities. I'd hate to see a dream crash and burn.

Tallulah.x


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## jkchawner (Dec 21, 2008)

hi we are looking and digesting i can assure you.
and the bar is in alicante not benidorm, the great thing what makes it so diffarent from others in the area is it has a full size snooker table and games room which attracts a lot of customers alone the books show a very healthy profit with this adding to that quite a lot.
i will update as and when we have viewed monday flight hopefully confirmed today.


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## Cazzy (Nov 23, 2008)

jkchawner said:


> hi we are looking and digesting i can assure you.
> and the bar is in alicante not benidorm, the great thing what makes it so diffarent from others in the area is it has a full size snooker table and games room which attracts a lot of customers alone the books show a very healthy profit with this adding to that quite a lot.
> i will update as and when we have viewed monday flight hopefully confirmed today.


Good Luck
Caz


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## SteveHall (Oct 17, 2008)

Oh no! I was not going to comment but if you are seriously thinking about Alicante I'd better jump in. If you are talking about Alicante City it is 99% NON-expat and you will fail. If it is the Alicante province (which covers an enormous area from North of Denia to south of Torrevieja there are expat emclaves, Spanish/valenciano only and mixed areas. I know the province well - I have lived there for nearly 7 years this time. 

If I could think of one way to guarantee a bar would fail it is to have a snooker table. It takes up a hideous amount of space and you can only have a maximum of 4 people at any one time who are usually not heavy drinklers but wrapped up in their game.

I know snooker/pool well. My ex was semi-pro so I knew every table west of Málaga I think. I have also owned a bar here and can tell you that you are stacking up all the cards against yourself. 

I wish you every success and if you want to pick my brains on a call I'd be happy to chat this through. Just PM me with a good time/number to call you if you want.


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## jkchawner (Dec 21, 2008)

SteveHall said:


> Oh no! I was not going to comment but if you are seriously thinking about Alicante I'd better jump in. If you are talking about Alicante City it is 99% NON-expat and you will fail. If it is the Alicante province (which covers an enormous area from North of Denia to south of Torrevieja there are expat emclaves, Spanish/valenciano only and mixed areas. I know the province well - I have lived there for nearly 7 years this time.
> 
> If I could think of one way to guarantee a bar would fail it is to have a snooker table. It takes up a hideous amount of space and you can only have a maximum of 4 people at any one time who are usually not heavy drinklers but wrapped up in their game.
> 
> ...


thank for that steve i have sent u a pm
and it is alicante province


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## SteveHall (Oct 17, 2008)

I will reply privately


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