# Tourist



## MaidenScotland

Just had tea with someone in the tourist industry.. someone who makes descions on what will happen.
The short term view is that there is no tourist industry this year.. there are hotels in Sharm/Hurgada that will not open again this year. Flights are going to be cut again, no one is buying holidays the only people who are coming are holiday makers who had already booked a holiday and they cannot see this changing.
Aswan.. is dead, Luxor is not much better and they can see no improvement.
The Marriot hotel in Cairo is empty, restaurants in the hotel are closed weekdays.
I was actually told figures etc but I thought it would be rather rude to write them down as this was a social afternoon, I can't recall the numbers but it doesn't look good..he also mentioned if September brings in a hardline government you can say good bye to tourism.


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## marenostrum

MaidenScotland said:


> Just had tea with someone in the tourist industry.. someone who makes descions on what will happen.
> The short term view is that there is no tourist industry this year.. there are hotels in Sharm/Hurgada that will not open again this year. Flights are going to be cut again, no one is buying holidays the only people who are coming are holiday makers who had already booked a holiday and they cannot see this changing.
> Aswan.. is dead, Luxor is not much better and they can see no improvement.
> The Marriot hotel in Cairo is empty, restaurants in the hotel are closed weekdays.
> I was actually told figures etc but I thought it would be rather rude to write them down as this was a social afternoon, I can't recall the numbers but it doesn't look good..he also mentioned if September brings in a hardline government you can say good bye to tourism.


Sounds like more boats heading to Sicily with UK as final destination


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## Sonrisa

MaidenScotland said:


> Just had tea with someone in the tourist industry.. someone who makes descions on what will happen.
> The short term view is that there is no tourist industry this year.. there are hotels in Sharm/Hurgada that will not open again this year. Flights are going to be cut again, no one is buying holidays the only people who are coming are holiday makers who had already booked a holiday and they cannot see this changing.Aswan.. is dead, Luxor is not much better and they can see no improvement.
> The Marriot hotel in Cairo is empty, restaurants in the hotel are closed weekdays.
> I was actually told figures etc but I thought it would be rather rude to write them down as this was a social afternoon, I can't recall the numbers but it doesn't look good..he also mentioned if September brings in a hardline government you can say good bye to tourism.


Very uncertain times for the industry. All hotels are empty. The Hyatt has pulled off and so has Fairmont heliopolis I think. Many others , closed The owners are calling the shots as they are loosing scandalous amounts of money. Many wokers are on strike, asking for better conditions/ turning nasty. 

Expats were running the show and hopefully most will be transfered or holding on until when/if things normalise. But it is the egyptians I feel sad about, for many turism is their livehood.They need the turists, they need the work. 
Many are talented, honest and hard working. What are these people going to do? 

I really hope that this person is wrong about the new government (i presum MB) not supporting the tourist industry. It would be devastating. 

Just out of couriosity. Was that a Marriott person, you were talking to?


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## MaidenScotland

Sonrisa said:


> Very uncertain times for the industry. All hotels are empty. The Hyatt has pulled off and so has Fairmont heliopolis I think. Many others , closed The owners are calling the shots as they are loosing scandalous amounts of money. Many wokers are on strike, asking for better conditions/ turning nasty.
> 
> Expats were running the show and hopefully most will be transfered or holding on until when/if things normalise. But it is the egyptians I feel sad about, for many turism is their livehood.They need the turists, they need the work.
> Many are talented, honest and hard working. What are these people going to do?
> 
> I really hope that this person is wrong about the new government (i presum MB) not supporting the tourist industry. It would be devastating.
> 
> Just out of couriosity. Was that a Marriott person, you were talking to?




No it wasn't a Marriot person... but a director of the Marriot told me two years ago..
Hotels here have to get their pricing structure sorted.. for $5 you could stay at the Marriot in Paris, who would want to come here and be ripped off from the minute you land at the airport when for peanuts more you could be in Paris.
Ramadan in summer months doesn't help the tourist industry either.


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## Sonrisa

True. 
But the fact remains that the industry was thriving pre 25-january, and many exclusive hotel groups were looking to expand, and occupancy figures were above expectations, even with their high room rates. The current lack of turists is a direct result of the middle east and north africa crisis, and safety concerns. 

Prices will dive. Not sure the industry will recover;. I hope the new government will keep in mind that tourists feed many families in this country


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## hhaddad

Just checked incoming flight schedules in hurghada and sharm for today 15 flights for hurghada and about the same for sharm.Thats less than half of what it used to be.


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## Sam

MaidenScotland said:


> Just had tea with someone in the tourist industry.. someone who makes descions on what will happen.
> The short term view is that there is no tourist industry this year.. there are hotels in Sharm/Hurgada that will not open again this year. Flights are going to be cut again, no one is buying holidays the only people who are coming are holiday makers who had already booked a holiday and they cannot see this changing.
> Aswan.. is dead, Luxor is not much better and they can see no improvement.
> The Marriot hotel in Cairo is empty, restaurants in the hotel are closed weekdays.
> I was actually told figures etc but I thought it would be rather rude to write them down as this was a social afternoon, I can't recall the numbers but it doesn't look good..he also mentioned if September brings in a hardline government you can say good bye to tourism.


Such sad news.

It's heartbreaking to see how empty the streets are and businesses closing. Not even the 2005 bombs made things so quiet in Sharm.

No doubt this would also delay the expansion of the airport. Many people do not realise how many lives are affected by the destruction of the tourist industry, and the sad fact of the matter is that there is absolutely no reason for a tourist not to come to Sharm or Hurghada. I haven't been to the other areas of Egypt recently to give a personal perspective, but in these areas at least I cannot see any safety issue.


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## MaidenScotland

Sam said:


> Such sad news.
> 
> It's heartbreaking to see how empty the streets are and businesses closing. Not even the 2005 bombs made things so quiet in Sharm.
> 
> No doubt this would also delay the expansion of the airport. Many people do not realise how many lives are affected by the destruction of the tourist industry, and the sad fact of the matter is that there is absolutely no reason for a tourist not to come to Sharm or Hurghada. I haven't been to the other areas of Egypt recently to give a personal perspective, but in these areas at least I cannot see any safety issue.




Quite simply people are scared it is ok today but no one knows what tomorrow will bring, this country is not stable and expecting people to come to an unstable country even if it is in a quiet part is unrealistic. It is very sad for the country as each tourist generates 1000 pound sterling to the Egyptian economy and making up that short fall will be impossible.


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## marenostrum

Sam said:


> Such sad news.
> 
> It's heartbreaking to see how empty the streets are and businesses closing. Not even the 2005 bombs made things so quiet in Sharm.
> 
> No doubt this would also delay the expansion of the airport. Many people do not realise how many lives are affected by the destruction of the tourist industry, and the sad fact of the matter is that there is absolutely no reason for a tourist not to come to Sharm or Hurghada. I haven't been to the other areas of Egypt recently to give a personal perspective, but in these areas at least I cannot see any safety issue.


True.

One positive is that with less tourists in the red sea maybe the corals will get a break, ie no more russian tourists walking and trampling over the corals.


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## MaidenScotland

At least someone understands

Standing amongst the placard-wielding crowds demanding justice and political reform in central Cairo they made for an unusual sight. Crowned with Pharaoh headdresses and wrapped in rustic robes, the hundred-strong group at yesterday's demonstrations had quite different demands. Chanting slogans in support of the revolution, they called for their compatriots to treat foreign tourists with respect.

It was neither a floorshow of ancient Egyptian folklore nor a demonstration of traditional hospitality -– livelihoods are at stake as the tourist trade struggles to revive.


Al aharam . newspaper


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## MaidenScotland

And another part of the article


Mounir Abdel Nour, Egypt's recently-appointed Minister of Tourism has claimed the recovery is already underway. "We have been hit very badly but I am confident that before the end of March we will be on track again," he said while attending a Berlin travel fair earlier this month.

“Charter planes are landing in Hurghada and Sharm El-Sheikh. Hotel occupancy is increasing. We believe that the situation is bouncing back quicker than we thought.”


Seems likes the lies haven't stopped...I know for a fact that one of the big tour operators has slashed and is expecting to slash more flights as they are not selling any holidays... I hope they are proven wrong and find they are suddenly short of airplanes but I somehow dout it. You can read the full article Egyptian tourism sector eyes brighter future - Economy - Business - Ahram Online


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## MaidenScotland

Egypt’s Minister of Tourism has called on the United States to lift its travel ban recommendation for Americans wishing to visit Egypt. The minister, Mounir Fakhry Abdel Nour, made the request during a meeting with the US Ambassador to Egypt, Margaret Scobey, said local reports on Thursday.

Abdel Nour told Scobey the security situation in Egypt is more stable and being revised on a daily basis, adding that several countries, including Russia, have dispatched missions to some tourist destinations in Egypt and gave positive reports regarding the security situation and the stability of the country.

Scobey said the US Foreign Ministry was proceeding with caution, adding that she understands the importance of a lift of the ban and its effects on Egyptian tourism. She said the US is currently preparing to return the families of its diplomats and employees to the Embassy in Cairo.

Russia and Italy have lifted their travel bans to Egypt and Germany promised to ease the restrictions on traveling to Egypt soon.


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## Sam

MaidenScotland said:


> Egypt’s Minister of Tourism has called on the United States to lift its travel ban recommendation for Americans wishing to visit Egypt. The minister, Mounir Fakhry Abdel Nour, made the request during a meeting with the US Ambassador to Egypt, Margaret Scobey, said local reports on Thursday.
> 
> Abdel Nour told Scobey the security situation in Egypt is more stable and being revised on a daily basis, adding that several countries, including Russia, have dispatched missions to some tourist destinations in Egypt and gave positive reports regarding the security situation and the stability of the country.
> 
> Scobey said the US Foreign Ministry was proceeding with caution, adding that she understands the importance of a lift of the ban and its effects on Egyptian tourism. She said the US is currently preparing to return the families of its diplomats and employees to the Embassy in Cairo.
> 
> Russia and Italy have lifted their travel bans to Egypt and Germany promised to ease the restrictions on traveling to Egypt soon.



Sharm is still as quiet as ever. I know a few bans have been lifted, but the people it seems still have the fear the ban instilled.

Have seen a few Russians back though!


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## MaidenScotland

I cannot blame Americans and British for staying away.. after all they are the first to be blamed of the ills of the worlds and this country is not stable. 
Let me ask this... if Sharm is/was so safe why didn't the embassies move their staff from Cairo to Sharm instead of sending them back home?


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## aykalam

BBC's Fasttrack coverage "How will unrest in the Middle East affect tourism?"

BBC News - Fast Track - How will unrest in the Middle East affect tourism?


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## Sam

MaidenScotland said:


> I cannot blame Americans and British for staying away.. after all they are the first to be blamed of the ills of the worlds and this country is not stable.
> Let me ask this... if Sharm is/was so safe why didn't the embassies move their staff from Cairo to Sharm instead of sending them back home?


I would imagine it would be because sending them home means they foot the flight costs, whereas sending them to Sharm they have to foot the bill for accommodation as well, just a guess though.

My personal opinion is that the country is unstable and that there are areas which it is advisable not to go. But I cannot honestly say that there is anything to fear in Sharm. There may be things I don't know, but as an individual going about my day-to-day life I can see no danger. That's my personal opinion.


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## MaidenScotland

Sam said:


> I would imagine it would be because sending them home means they foot the flight costs, whereas sending them to Sharm they have to foot the bill for accommodation as well, just a guess though.
> 
> My personal opinion is that the country is unstable and that there are areas which it is advisable not to go. But I cannot honestly say that there is anything to fear in Sharm. There may be things I don't know, but as an individual going about my day-to-day life I can see no danger. That's my personal opinion.




They could have taken over a hotel after all they were/are empty .. I know people who were put up in hotels in London. This would have had the embassy staff plus the British Council who were also sent home a basis still in Egypt.

I wonder if people are aware that foreign governments bring in secuity specialist to wonder around the towns finding out what are potential hotspots and where the nearest escape route is? Sometimes these people know far more than we do although they were caught short the last time.


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## Sam

MaidenScotland said:


> I wonder if people are aware that foreign governments bring in secuity specialist to wonder around the towns finding out what are potential hotspots and where the nearest escape route is? Sometimes these people know far more than we do although they were caught short the last time.


I didn't know that!!!

It's like a mystery shopper 

It does make sense, although I wonder what kind of information would be available to them. Or is it a case of just looking at the same things we do, but with a trained eye??


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## marenostrum

Sam said:


> I would imagine it would be because sending them home means they foot the flight costs, whereas sending them to Sharm they have to foot the bill for accommodation as well, just a guess though.
> 
> My personal opinion is that the country is unstable and that there are areas which it is advisable not to go. But I cannot honestly say that there is anything to fear in Sharm. There may be things I don't know, but as an individual going about my day-to-day life I can see no danger. That's my personal opinion.


It must be said that embassy and consular staff don't always spark as the brightest bulbs and that applies not only to uk staff.....
It must have certainly cost the taxpayer a lot of money to get them back to london.


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## txlstewart

marenostrum said:


> It must be said that embassy and consular staff don't always spark as the brightest bulbs and that applies not only to uk staff.....
> It must have certainly cost the taxpayer a lot of money to get them back to london.


Evacuating them from any dangerous post is a condition of employment. (This could be due to civil unrest or natural disaster.) There is usually a contingency amount built into the annual budget.

My school evacuated us out of Cairo, and most oil industry firms evacuated their staff as well. It's a cost of doing business in this part of the world.


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## marenostrum

txlstewart said:


> Evacuating them from any dangerous post is a condition of employment. (This could be due to civil unrest or natural disaster.) There is usually a contingency amount built into the annual budget.
> 
> My school evacuated us out of Cairo, and most oil industry firms evacuated their staff as well. It's a cost of doing business in this part of the world.


I understand that but i don't think its fair charging your own citizens 300 pounds to get out of the country in a moment of crisis and also IMHO you should be the last one to leave. You are supposed to protect your fellow citizens if they are in difficulty abroad.

i can understand why a school would evacuate its staff but an embassy or consular staff? I don't agree.

All imho of course.


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## Eco-Mariner

You've got it in a nutshell TXL.

Market forces will play the biggest part in getting Egypt's tourism back on track. However, I do wonder who will benefit from the increased revenue...

The Egyptian people relying on the work, or the remnants of the regime that skimmed all the profits in the past ?


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## txlstewart

marenostrum said:


> I understand that but i don't think its fair charging your own citizens 300 pounds to get out of the country in a moment of crisis and also IMHO you should be the last one to leave. You are supposed to protect your fellow citizens if they are in difficulty abroad.
> 
> i can understand why a school would evacuate its staff but an embassy or consular staff? I don't agree.
> 
> All imho of course.


I'm not sure that all foreign hire embassy staff should have to stay--I can't imagine an administrative assistant picking up a gun to protect me. My embassy evacuated non-essential personnel, and the others stayed.

And as for assessing a fee to those regular citizens who are evacuated via embassy flights--it seems as it's a no-win situation in your viewpoint. The government is damned if they do charge (see your quote above) and damned if they don't (the cost being borne by the entire country). In your HO, how would this dilemna be solved?


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## marenostrum

txlstewart said:


> I'm not sure that all foreign hire embassy staff should have to stay--I can't imagine an administrative assistant picking up a gun to protect me. My embassy evacuated non-essential personnel, and the others stayed.
> 
> And as for assessing a fee to those regular citizens who are evacuated via embassy flights--it seems as it's a no-win situation in your viewpoint. The government is damned if they do charge (see your quote above) and damned if they don't (the cost being borne by the entire country). In your HO, how would this dilemna be solved?


I must have not made myself clear in the previous posts.

If there was a danger situation in any specific country I would expect my home country to arrange for my free evacuation. I take your point about thr admin assistant not being able to protects us but it is not as if western countries are not able to mobilize special forces within a few days (ie. the british sas who have been operating in lybia at a two day notice).

I find it ludicrous that anyone should be charged 300+ pounds to be on a flight to leave an unsafe country especially when all our home countries bend over backwards to help refugees from other continents, so it is not as if there is no money or equipment.


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## txlstewart

marenostrum said:


> I must have not made myself clear in the previous posts.
> 
> If there was a danger situation in any specific country I would expect my home country to arrange for my free evacuation. I take your point about thr admin assistant not being able to protects us but it is not as if western countries are not able to mobilize special forces within a few days (ie. the british sas who have been operating in lybia at a two day notice).
> 
> I find it ludicrous that anyone should be charged 300+ pounds to be on a flight to leave an unsafe country especially when all our home countries bend over backwards to help refugees from other continents, so it is not as if there is no money or equipment.


So--you would be fine with your government footing the bill to evacuate everyone, even those who traveled to that country after the unrest began? (For example, in Egypt it would be those who traveled here after 25 January.) 

Also, are you advocating outside force should be used all the time? I sensed from some of your previous posts that you were against this sort of thing. Perhaps it's just situational...


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## MaidenScotland

Sam said:


> I didn't know that!!!
> 
> It's like a mystery shopper
> 
> It does make sense, although I wonder what kind of information would be available to them. Or is it a case of just looking at the same things we do, but with a trained eye??





They usually arrive and a car and driver is given to them and they just wander around the city discreetly working out if for example... there was a sudden terrorist attack in Mohandiseen how quickly they the terrosit could get to the embassy of the security guy. They listen to what is going on in the streets, read local blogs etc.


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## MaidenScotland

My point was.. the British were still telling people it was ok for them to come to the Red Sea resorts as they are/were safe whilst they were evacuating their people back to the U.K...they were telling people to come to a country that only had skelton embassy staff.


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## Charlie's Angel

MaidenScotland said:


> Quite simply people are scared it is ok today but no one knows what tomorrow will bring, this country is not stable and expecting people to come to an unstable country even if it is in a quiet part is unrealistic. It is very sad for the country as each tourist generates 1000 pound sterling to the Egyptian economy and making up that short fall will be impossible.



My parents flew out to Luxor last Wednesday to go on a Nile Cruise, I have spoken to them everyday and they say they're having a wonderful time, the boat is quiet, but there are other Brits on board aswell as a handful of Germans. They did think about cancelling, but I have a few friends in Luxor and they said everything was OK and safe to go, and so far it seems they were right.

I myself are due to go back out to Egypt on 4th May, and I also know someone else who has just gone out to Sharm. I sincerely hope tourism does recover as many many Egyptians will suffer badly if it doesn't. Worrying times, lets hope thing's can only get better


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## marenostrum

txlstewart said:


> So--you would be fine with your government footing the bill to evacuate everyone, even those who traveled to that country after the unrest began? (For example, in Egypt it would be those who traveled here after 25 January.)
> 
> Also, are you advocating outside force should be used all the time? I sensed from some of your previous posts that you were against this sort of thing. Perhaps it's just situational...


I'll try again to explain my position.

I think that a country should do everything in its power to evacuate its citizens from a dangerous situation, even employing special forces to do so.

Do you think employing special forces to escort your own citizens out of a danger zone is the same as using special forces to fight a proxy war against a dictator in another country for oil gains?
Of course it is not.

And certainly if flights are organized, people should not be charged 300+ pounds to get out.

The evacuations from egypt were a shambles and some goverments had to apologize in parliament for this.

This did not affect me as i stayed here throughout but I did not have children here that were in danger. I would have been mighty pissed off if i had 3 or 4 kids and had to pay 2000 pounds to my government to get them out of here.


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## menas

Yes you are all right. But the Russian Foreign Minister just lifted the ban on Travelling to Egypt has positive effects on the Red Sea and Sinai areas. All the Tour Agencies tried their best at the ITB Berlin and with no success. I work in the French market and we have some clients but the premium season was dead because of the political unrest and the summer is already a low season with this unrest it’s NULL season and let's think of the summer where the Gulf send more tourist but Ramadan in the middle of the summer, not good at all. Enough keep Gulf people with their families with no travel. I thought myself about quitting my job or taking a long break for 6 months till we have the new season by this September 2011. 
We need the whole world with fingers crossed , might help !


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## txlstewart

marenostrum said:


> I'll try again to explain my position.
> 
> I think that a country should do everything in its power to evacuate its citizens from a dangerous situation, even employing special forces to do so.
> 
> Do you think employing special forces to escort your own citizens out of a danger zone is the same as using special forces to fight a proxy war against a dictator in another country for oil gains?
> Of course it is not.
> 
> And certainly if flights are organized, people should not be charged 300+ pounds to get out.
> 
> The evacuations from egypt were a shambles and some goverments had to apologize in parliament for this.
> 
> This did not affect me as i stayed here throughout but I did not have children here that were in danger. I would have been mighty pissed off if i had 3 or 4 kids and had to pay 2000 pounds to my government to get them out of here.


pe t

I would hope that your employer would cover evacuation expenses (if you have an expat package). That would not only cover your expenses but your family's as well.

I believe that tourists coming to a country should be cognizant of what is going on in the country they are visiting, regardless of where their destination should be. As I stated earlier, those who arrived in Egypt after 25 Jan. should have known things were unsettling here.


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## MaidenScotland

I have never been to Sharm but as I have lived in Cairo for many years I think I can safely say I know how things operate out here. Tourists have been lost due to the instability but how many tourists have been lost over the years due to the way tourists are treated as walking ATMs from the minute they walk off the plane?
This maybe a time for the trade to shake it self up and start afresh.


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## PoleDancer

marenostrum said:


> I find it ludicrous that anyone should be charged 300+ pounds to be on a flight to leave an unsafe country


The Embassy / FCO made their position on this clear. The £300 charge was made in order to avoid under-cutting the commercial air operators. If the FCO was flying people out for free, the commercial airlines would have had little incentive to continue sending planes here. A very sensible decision in my view.


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## aykalam

txlstewart said:


> pe t
> 
> I would hope that your employer would cover evacuation expenses (if you have an expat package). That would not only cover your expenses but your family's as well.


That would be great. Unfortunately , many "expats" in Egypt don't enjoy an "expat package". And what about the self-employed?

I think charging £300 for a one-way ticket was a complete rip-off. But in a way the Brits can consider themselves lucky as most EU countries never bothered to make arrangements for their people to leave Egypt, not even by charter flight.


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## Eco-Mariner

MaidenScotland said:


> I have never been to Sharm but as I have lived in Cairo for many years I think I can safely say I know how things operate out here. Tourists have been lost due to the instability but how many tourists have been lost over the years due to the way tourists are treated as walking ATMs from the minute they walk off the plane?
> This maybe a time for the trade to shake it self up and start afresh.


Well said fair Maiden.

But you know, as soon as these tourists return to their "packaged" sunshine holidays and the beautiful corals, the vermin will be there like flies round the preverbial.... because they have little respect for the overall value of these tourists and look at them as fodder for the family table.

A newly appointed South Sinai Governor, with a true understanding of this industry would be my first step towards bringing tourist towns back from the "Forty Thieves" scenario to a welcoming industry people visit in other 21st century resorts. 

But while Mubarak is still around that will be impossible.


Alan.
Coralife-Style Consultants.


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## hurghadapat

marenostrum said:


> I understand that but i don't think its fair charging your own citizens 300 pounds to get out of the country in a moment of crisis and also IMHO you should be the last one to leave. You are supposed to protect your fellow citizens if they are in difficulty abroad.
> 
> i can understand why a school would evacuate its staff but an embassy or consular staff? I don't agree.
> 
> All imho of course.


As working abroad as an expat does that not give you a tax free situation as long as you do not return to the uk for more than 91 days....and also as long as none of your income
is uk sourced.....therefore why should the uk government be liable for your repatriation when you are no longer paying uk tax.....the company you are working for should be doing this for you!! Surely you can't expect to have all of the perks when you choose to live and work abroad.


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## MaidenScotland

I am in a tax free situation however I pay NI I also pay tax at source on savings plus I pay rates and tax on a propery I rent out. I have not lived in the U.K for so many years and I do not take anything out of the system. 
Ireland laid on military planes to evacuate, the Philipines laid on free flights and the list goes on.
My problem was/is with the lack of information from the embassy plus the rush of embassy personal to the planes, seats were sold on a first come first served basis and of course the banks were closed , you could then contact a member of your family who were to pay your flight and fax/email the details to the embassy. A telephone number was given out and it was constantly busy. 
What if UK citizens were killed whilst waiting for a flight? How would have taken care of things?


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## Ladylav

I can't imagine any new government making tourism difficult.  It wouldn't make any sense. Even if there were a more Muslim Brotherhood type government, unless they created so many new jobs that it wasn't necessary....and doubt that would happen. Having said that, watching the new constitution be implemented is a little scary. To be fair, it will take a while to get it 'right' whatever 'right' may be for Egyptians.


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## marenostrum

MaidenScotland said:


> I have never been to Sharm but as I have lived in Cairo for many years I think I can safely say I know how things operate out here. Tourists have been lost due to the instability but how many tourists have been lost over the years due to the way tourists are treated as walking ATMs from the minute they walk off the plane?
> This maybe a time for the trade to shake it self up and start afresh.



I think you make a very valid point.
I often wonder how much custom does your average egyptian shopkeeper lose in constantly harassing and begging shoppers to come in his shop. I, for one, hate being pestered and if someone invites me in their shop I'll give it a wide berth. Surely i must not be the only one. Never understood why they insist so much. I think it is counterproductive, am I wrong?

Also the hygiene thing needs to be improved. It is not possible that even today so many tourists fall ill in the Red Sea or Nile Cruises with a stomach bug. If one comes here for a week and they are ill four days out of the seven, it is not really a holiday. Many of them get fixed by a local pharamcist issuing antiobiotics but half the time they are antibiotics that are not even allowed for sale in west and from what i have heard sometimes they even prescribe veterinary antiobiotics 

I have a friend of mine who wants to come here on honeymoon. I've told her stay clear, why risk getting ill during your honeymoon?


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## MaidenScotland

Going back a few years.

The MB said that if they were ever to form a government tourisim would still be a big factor in the economy of Egypt, they would still allow tourists to drink alchol and gamble.
Can the MB be trusted to keep that sentiment?
Who will be classed as a tourist? Will it be anyone who is on holiday here? Will expats still be be allowed alcohol? Will you still be allowed to gamble if you are here as an expat? 
What if you are muslim and on holiday? think how much Gulf Arabs pump into the economy, they are the biggest spenders in the casinos. 
What if you have retired here and have residency? 
My money is on
The MB banning all alcohol and gambling in the country.


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## Sonrisa

Rummour has it that the MB has been lately up to buying alcohol licenced establishments. Why would they do that? I hear you asking.... Well aparently so they can avoid alcohol being served in such premises. 

Should MB take up power we can all kiss bye bye our sakara beers.


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## hurghadapat

MaidenScotland said:


> I am in a tax free situation however I pay NI I also pay tax at source on savings plus I pay rates and tax on a propery I rent out. I have not lived in the U.K for so many years and I do not take anything out of the system.
> Ireland laid on military planes to evacuate, the Philipines laid on free flights and the list goes on.
> My problem was/is with the lack of information from the embassy plus the rush of embassy personal to the planes, seats were sold on a first come first served basis and of course the banks were closed , you could then contact a member of your family who were to pay your flight and fax/email the details to the embassy. A telephone number was given out and it was constantly busy.
> What if UK citizens were killed whilst waiting for a flight? How would have taken care of things?


Yes agree with you in a way as have been there as well as i also had property i rented out so had to pay tax on that.....but to be honest all the time i spent in Egypt as far as i can remember not once did i ever hear anything good from expats about the BE being helpful and many times people wanting help could not get through to them.....but my thoughts when i went to live abroad was you are out of your own country so in a way you are out on a limb so if push comes to shove you have to fend for yourself....and if not on an expat package you have to learn to do very quickly....which i did !


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## marenostrum

Sonrisa said:


> Rummour has it that the MB has been lately up to buying alcohol licenced establishments. Why would they do that? I hear you asking.... Well aparently so they can avoid alcohol being served in such premises.
> 
> Should MB take up power we can all kiss bye bye our sakara beers.


Well they wanted the revolution, now they have to deal with the results!!!
There was always a chance MB would take power here.


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## MaidenScotland

hurghadapat said:


> Yes agree with you in a way as have been there as well as i also had property i rented out so had to pay tax on that.....but to be honest all the time i spent in Egypt as far as i can remember not once did i ever hear anything good from expats about the BE being helpful and many times people wanting help could not get through to them.....but my thoughts when i went to live abroad was you are out of your own country so in a way you are out on a limb so if push comes to shove you have to fend for yourself....and if not on an expat package you have to learn to do very quickly....which i did !


The embassy I work for couldn't do enough for me and yet the BE as you say are not helpful.


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## marenostrum

MaidenScotland said:


> The embassy I work for couldn't do enough for me and yet the BE as you say are not helpful.


Well I hold dual passports so i could have chosen either the brits or the italians to get out if i had wanted to.

the first just wanted to make ££ as discussed and the italians were just plain disorganised i think they managed to arrange a meeting point at a local italian hospital here but again closed numbers.

I think embassy staff in general are not very efficient or willing to help their fellow citizens in the time of need.


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## Eco-Mariner

Whether Egypt is run by the NDP regime or the Muslim Brotherhood, both are two faced parties that say one thing and do another.

The country must not go backwards. A new government will surely understand that their people need to live in a Global Society. 21st century technology and freedom of information which the masses now use to overthrow such authoritarian regimes in the Middle East, will no longer accept bullies and religious ideology to posses power over minds. Though it will take time.

I am positive the tourism industry will also be reformed. Health and safety issues, corruption and money-laundering will be highlighted and not hidden from the press or the media once a new system is in place. 

What these regimes forget is that the world is watching very closely now and lies are not acceptable.


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## bat

Eco-Mariner said:


> Whether Egypt is run by the NDP regime or the Muslim Brotherhood, both are two faced parties that say one thing and do another.
> 
> The country must not go backwards. A new government will surely understand that their people need to live in a Global Society. 21st century technology and freedom of information which the masses now use to overthrow such authoritarian regimes in the Middle East, will no longer accept bullies and religious ideology to posses power over minds. Though it will take time.
> 
> I am positive the tourism industry will also be reformed. Health and safety issues, corruption and money-laundering will be highlighted and not hidden from the press or the media once a new system is in place.
> 
> What these regimes forget is that the world is watching very closely now and lies are not acceptable.


i admire your optimism,
but if your thinking that its going to happen here,
no i dont think so.:nono:


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## Eco-Mariner

What nature creates, men destroy. Then tourism stops and Egypt fails.

From day one I was party to how Sharm and Hurghada and Marsa Alam proceeded in sustainable tourism growth. Now the reality is for them to shape up or lose it.

Alan.


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## PoleDancer

Sonrisa said:


> Rummour has it that the MB has been lately up to buying alcohol licenced establishments. Why would they do that? I hear you asking.... Well aparently so they can avoid alcohol being served in such premises.


Interesting rumour.

Can anyone identify any such establishment?


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## MaidenScotland

PoleDancer said:


> Interesting rumour.
> 
> Can anyone identify any such establishment?




How can you identify a rumour? but bear in mind there could be some truth in the rumour.


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## Sonrisa

MaidenScotland said:


> How can you identify a rumour? but bear in mind there could be some truth in the rumour.


Hello Pole Dancer. .> No of course I don't know ....nor I whish to name who told me. 

But if you really need to investigate the rumour, maybe the main suppliers of alcoholic berverages in Cairo will possibly have more reliable information? 

If it is just that you are concerned about BCA or ACE club, don't worry, these two are still serving alcohol as far as I know! :tongue1:


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## hhaddad

I think that it is just a rumour because it's dificult for them to buy up Al Haram Beverages Co the main supplier in Egypt with its Drinkies outlets and breweries . Probably a M.B. member bought a independant outlet only.

Check out :Al Ahram Beverages Company


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## Sonrisa

Yes, sorry , probably I didn't express myself properly, I meant to say that if MB are buying up outlets, al Ahram for example would possibly know about the rumour and if there is any truth in it. 
Hypothetically.l


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## MensEtManus

(Reuters) - A British airliner travelling from Britain to the Egyptian resort of Sharm el Sheikh made an emergency landing at Athens airport on Monday after receiving a bomb threat.

All 213 passengers and crew aboard the Thomson Airways Boeing aircraft are safe and police are checking the plane for any explosives, Greek police and Defence Ministry officials told Reuters.


"Thomson Airways can confirm that a security alert was raised during one of its flights, TOM 226, today from Bristol to Sharm el Sheikh. As a precautionary measure and in the interests of customer safety, the pilot took the decision to divert the aircraft into Athens airport," the company said.


"There were no customer injuries as a result of the alert," said Thomson, which is owned by UK's TUI Travel (TT.L).

The passengers are now in the airport terminal, a police official said, adding that it would take some time to check the whole plane.


Greek jets escorted the plane to Athens after it received the bomb threat, a Defence Ministry official told Reuters.

"At 1417 (1117 GMT) the plane requested to land, at 1422 (1122 GMT) two F16 jets took off from Greece and escorted it, at 1452 (1152 GMT) the Boeing landed at Athens international airport," said the official who declined to be named.


The British Foreign Office said it was looking into the incident. "We are urgently investigating," said a spokeswoman. (Reporting by Renee Maltezou in Athens and Matt Scuffham in London; Writing by Ingrid Melander)


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## Horus

I must be the only one who thinks the peace and quiet is fantasic, this was reinforced after I saw the one and only group of lard heads with football shirts singing, let this people go to Benidorm

For me business as usual, the sun always shines in Sharm for me

If this drives down property prices so much the better, I could give 2 hoots about MB and alcohol

Should push to come shove and westerners are not welcome I shall simply live in Portugal

I think some of these crap shops that scam tourists are now paying the price for offering such mindless tacky non-sense

I am sure the relevant scummy people will return here when they can snap up a cheap holiday in The Sun newspaper

If those tubby beasts and the Jabba Hut family who have turned the pool into a watering hole move from here and the Adam's family whose kid also swills pool in his mouth and bounces his football depart I shall breath a sigh of relief

Before people have a go at me you don't have to look at the monstrosity of flesh and blubber I do when I open my curtains


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## txlstewart

Horus said:


> I must be the only one who thinks the peace and quiet is fantasic, this was reinforced after I saw the one and only group of lard heads with football shirts singing, let this people go to Benidorm
> 
> For me business as usual, the sun always shines in Sharm for me
> 
> If this drives down property prices so much the better, I could give 2 hoots about MB and alcohol
> 
> Should push to come shove and westerners are not welcome I shall simply live in Portugal
> 
> I think some of these crap shops that scam tourists are now paying the price for offering such mindless tacky non-sense
> 
> I am sure the relevant scummy people will return here when they can snap up a cheap holiday in The Sun newspaper
> 
> If those tubby beasts and the Jabba Hut family who have turned the pool into a watering hole move from here and the Adam's family whose kid also swills pool in his mouth and bounces his football depart I shall breath a sigh of relief
> 
> Before people have a go at me you don't have to look at the monstrosity of flesh and blubber I do when I open my curtains


It's always nice to read your posts when you're in a happy, upbeat mood....lol


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## MaidenScotland

Horus said:


> I must be the only one who thinks the peace and quiet is fantasic, this was reinforced after I saw the one and only group of lard heads with football shirts singing, let this people go to Benidorm
> 
> For me business as usual, the sun always shines in Sharm for me
> 
> If this drives down property prices so much the better, I could give 2 hoots about MB and alcohol
> 
> Should push to come shove and westerners are not welcome I shall simply live in Portugal
> 
> I think some of these crap shops that scam tourists are now paying the price for offering such mindless tacky non-sense
> 
> I am sure the relevant scummy people will return here when they can snap up a cheap holiday in The Sun newspaper
> 
> If those tubby beasts and the Jabba Hut family who have turned the pool into a watering hole move from here and the Adam's family whose kid also swills pool in his mouth and bounces his football depart I shall breath a sigh of relief
> 
> Before people have a go at me you don't have to look at the monstrosity of flesh and blubber I do when I open my curtains




Keep your curains closed..
Didn't you complain about children making loud remarks about your body hair? Well you are as rude.


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## marenostrum

Horus said:


> I must be the only one who thinks the peace and quiet is fantasic, this was reinforced after I saw the one and only group of lard heads with football shirts singing, let this people go to Benidorm
> 
> For me business as usual, the sun always shines in Sharm for me
> 
> If this drives down property prices so much the better, I could give 2 hoots about MB and alcohol
> 
> Should push to come shove and westerners are not welcome I shall simply live in Portugal
> 
> I think some of these crap shops that scam tourists are now paying the price for offering such mindless tacky non-sense
> 
> I am sure the relevant scummy people will return here when they can snap up a cheap holiday in The Sun newspaper
> 
> If those tubby beasts and the Jabba Hut family who have turned the pool into a watering hole move from here and the Adam's family whose kid also swills pool in his mouth and bounces his football depart I shall breath a sigh of relief
> 
> Before people have a go at me you don't have to look at the monstrosity of flesh and blubber I do when I open my curtains


Is it really that quiet now in Sharm?

Also I was wondering if anyone knew how Marina near Alex is and also Marsa Matrouh. 
I'm looking for a quiet weekend in a place which is not geared too much towards foreign tourists but more for locals and of good standard of accomodation / food.
I've heard a lot of the rich Cairenes go to these places is that right.


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## Horus

Sure come to Sharm however Naama is a bit like a classy version of Benidorm

Sadly I keep the curtains open I was hoping that as this is a small community someone somewhere would read this and get the hint and sit at another pool or take up my offer of a diet plan, I honestly don't know how people do it

This morning was the first time I was actually gagging it's never happened before

I am just setting up my "beast cam" wireless IP camera so that the world can be greeted by live streaming 24/7 non-action hopefully that will work as I am at wit's end


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## MaidenScotland

Horus said:


> Sure come to Sharm however Naama is a bit like a classy version of Benidorm
> 
> Sadly I keep the curtains open I was hoping that as this is a small community someone somewhere would read this and get the hint and sit at another pool or take up my offer of a diet plan, I honestly don't know how people do it
> 
> This morning was the first time I was actually gagging it's never happened before
> 
> I am just setting up my "beast cam" wireless IP camera so that the world can be greeted by live streaming 24/7 non-action hopefully that will work as I am at wit's end




Tell me you are kidding??? Who are you to mock other peoples body? I hope someone tells the police you have a camera up and you get charged with peeping tom or something. What offends you doesn't necessary offend others and as you are someone that has to have posts contantly edited/deleted because of their content you have a damn cheek.
Take up your offer of a diet plan? I suggest as we would say in Scotland
Go boil yer heid.


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## hurghadapat

MaidenScotland said:


> Tell me you are kidding??? Who are you to mock other peoples body? I hope someone tells the police you have a camera up and you get charged with peeping tom or something. What offends you doesn't necessary offend others and as you are someone that has to have posts contantly edited/deleted because of their content you have a damn cheek.
> Take up your offer of a diet plan? I suggest as we would say in Scotland
> Go boil yer heid.[/QU
> 
> :clap2::clap2::clap2:....love your way with words MS ))


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## MaidenScotland

hurghadapat said:


> MaidenScotland said:
> 
> 
> 
> Tell me you are kidding??? Who are you to mock other peoples body? I hope someone tells the police you have a camera up and you get charged with peeping tom or something. What offends you doesn't necessary offend others and as you are someone that has to have posts contantly edited/deleted because of their content you have a damn cheek.
> Take up your offer of a diet plan? I suggest as we would say in Scotland
> Go boil yer heid.[/QU
> 
> :clap2::clap2::clap2:....love your way with words MS ))
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Honestly it's enough to drive you to drink.. this coming from a man who posted an almost obscene photo of himself then told us about his black head back, his boil in the groin, his tuft of hair.. Does the saying "if you were chocolate you would lick yourself" come to mind?
Click to expand...


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## hurghadapat

MaidenScotland said:


> hurghadapat said:
> 
> 
> 
> Honestly it's enough to drive you to drink.. this coming from a man who posted an almost obscene photo of himself then told us about his black head back, his boil in the groin, his tuft of hair.. Does the saying "if you were chocolate you would lick yourself" come to mind?
> 
> 
> 
> Without a doubt.....but also feel he is getting some sort of weird enjoyment out of this
Click to expand...


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## Horus

My issues have been solved..the pool is quiet again I simply bought myself some white and gold speedos


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## marenostrum

Horus said:


> My issues have been solved..the pool is quiet again I simply bought myself some white and gold speedos


Have you we got another photo as well to go along with the speedos and the towel?


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## Sam

You complain that the Egyptians are keeping you from your exceedingly busy day, but you seem to have all this time on your hands to spend the day observing the scenes out of your window. Did it ever cross your mind that these people might not care, they are happy. 
People harp on about tolerance of religion, race or whatever, body shape and size can be put into that category too. 
These people have as much right to be there as you do, let them enjoy themselves. If you don't like it, don't look.


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## Karena

Horus you would'nt be from Essex by any chance! "Chigwell" "Birds of a feather" springs to mind. the thought of the gold medallion hanging round your neck with the gold speedos:nono: actually that look went out in the 80's give me a man in swimming shorts anyday.


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## Eco-Mariner

I'm thinking Tim Heeley from "Benidorm"


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## marenostrum

Eco-Mariner said:


> I'm thinking Tim Heeley from "Benidorm"


I'm thinking he is more of a Danny Dyer type.


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## hurghadapat

marenostrum said:


> I'm thinking he is more of a Danny Dyer type.


No comment......because Maiden will delete it if i really posted my opinion....but something beginning with A springs to mind.


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## marenostrum

hurghadapat said:


> No comment......because Maiden will delete it if i really posted my opinion....but something beginning with A springs to mind.


Well I know now I am likely to get shot down in flames for saying this, worse than the egyptian interior ministry building on revolution day, but I think we should give the guy a break. Personally i find him quite amusing and light hearted.
He is harmless.


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## Eco-Mariner

though sometimes a bit insensitive.


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## MaidenScotland

marenostrum said:


> Well I know now I am likely to get shot down in flames for saying this, worse than the egyptian interior ministry building on revolution day, but I think we should give the guy a break. Personally i find him quite amusing and light hearted.
> He is harmless.




Once again I ask you not to discuss my moderating on this board you are violating one of the forum rules, if you have a problem with me deleting/editing posts please contact the admin.
No one has ever said he is not harmless however his post can and have verged on the side of tasteless, crude and obnoxious on many occasions.
I do give the guy a break maybe that is the problem I have given him too many!!


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