# Where do you get buried?



## surfrider (Oct 4, 2011)

Just been thinking about a question and thought I would throw it out for discussion. We are all going to have to look into the future and figure out what we want to happen to us when we die if we are still living in Mexico at the time. 
I am sure some of you already have plans on this and I thought (morbid as it may seem to some) if we should open this up for discussion? I would much rather think about surfing but physical realities do happen and we (I think) should have some idea about what to do.


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## Ken Wood (Oct 22, 2011)

I don't plan to be buried...everyone has their own idea of the proper way to dispose of us after we end our short cycle here on the planet, and mine is to have my next of kin, whoever might be around at the time, turn me into ashes and respectfully return me to the earth. The situation might well be different here in Mexico, but I've seen too many entrepreneurs in the states who prey on the family of those recently deceased. I understand that some may have religious beliefs that will not allow cremation, and I can certainly respect that, but, as for me, send me back to dust in as short a time, and as economical, as possible.


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## mickisue1 (Mar 10, 2012)

Ken Wood said:


> I don't plan to be buried...everyone has their own idea of the proper way to dispose of us after we end our short cycle here on the planet, and mine is to have my next of kin, whoever might be around at the time, turn me into ashes and respectfully return me to the earth. The situation might well be different here in Mexico, but I've seen too many entrepreneurs in the states who prey on the family of those recently deceased. I understand that some may have religious beliefs that will not allow cremation, and I can certainly respect that, but, as for me, send me back to dust in as short a time, and as economical, as possible.


I'm right there with you, Ken.

Having departed from the religion of my upbringing long ago, I have no desire to be "buried in sanctified ground", and prefer my ashes to nourish new life, rather than decaying in an air and water tight, overpriced, casket.


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## FHBOY (Jun 15, 2010)

Interesting morbid (but necessary) contemplation.

Unless something radical happens, my family will still be living in the USA, probably in the Mid-Atlantic to Northeast (From DC to Boston). I can't see them moving to Mexico. So I duck the question. My remains will be shipped back to New York to be buried where my parents are buried. While strict adherence to my faith does not allow for cremation, I do not subscribe to that, however, dealing with death is for the survivors (after all I'm dead), and knowing my family, cremation or interment in Mexico would not be giving them the closure that they need.

From Shawshank Redemption: "Either get busy living or get busy dying" - I'll take the former - Next week we'll be back in Ajijic to get busy living!!! :clap2:

PS: Are you aware that one of the largest industries in Florida is the shipment of human remains? Look it up. After all, South Florida is God's Waiting Room! L'chayim!


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

Interesting question.

I have thought about several options. My parents are buried in a tiny grave yard in Maine and I occasionally visit there. This caused me to think about an option like that.

I spent some of my formative years as a draftee in Vietnam and I believe this makes be eligible for burial in one of the US national cemeteries. I thought about that too.

But my current statement of my wishes, written for the benefit of my kids, specifies that my ashes are to be scattered on the wind at a place of their choosing.

Dilbert's comment on this subject


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## surfrider (Oct 4, 2011)

Does anyone know what the laws in Mexico are pertaining to this?


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## RVGRINGO (May 16, 2007)

As a firm believer in the fact that all religions are shams, we happily carry our cremation cards and have another on file at home. Here, the Lake Chapala Society can make these 'post life' arrangements. That takes away the worry about family concerns, wiich probably makes them happy to be relieved of the problem. Dead is dead; we won't be worried at all.


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## RVGRINGO (May 16, 2007)

surfrider said:


> Does anyone know what the laws in Mexico are pertaining to this?


You may be burried or cremated, as you wish. No embalming is required for natural deaths and burial or cremation within a day. Shipping will require embalming, casket and a lot of expensive complications, including autopsy and storage fees. It is wise to have a 'family doctor' who will come and prepare the death certificate. One does not call the police, etc. as up north. The MD will help with contacting the funeraria or crematorum and you should make prior arrangements if you don't have a lot of family close by. It is a good idea anyway. Don't forget to have a Mexican will and arrangments for final bills, including 'disposal'.


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## Longford (May 25, 2012)

I've thought about the question, previously. 

I visit many cemeteries in Mexico, and in other places I travel to. I wouldn't want to be buried in one in Mexico, however. 

It's not easy to predict what'll happen at "the end" of this life and the beginning of the next. I think most expats who've moved to Mexico will return home for care pre-death and die there (USA or Canada, as examples) surrounded by family/friends. That's instictive, I think. 

I believe (but don't know with certainty) the death of foreigners in Mexico is something the Mexican government requires be reported and in turn reports to the Embassy of the country from which the foreigner came. The statistics on this are probably not well kept. 

My sentiments regarding in-the-ground burial vs. cremation fluctuate. At the present time I've made plans to have my body buried in our family plot in a cemetery just outside Chicago. If I'm in Mexico when I pass I will be returned "home."


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

surfrider said:


> Does anyone know what the laws in Mexico are pertaining to this?


The Panteon de Mezquitan (cemetery) near me has a sign pointing out that 6 years are required before they can reuse the space if you are buried, but only 3 months if you are cremated first. I suspect this appeals to families with limited space.


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## surfrider (Oct 4, 2011)

R.V. thank for the info about the Lake Chapala Society - I did not know that. By the way - the R.V. ****** handle - do you drive an RV> just curious.


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## sparks (Jun 17, 2007)

A good friend died and was cremated here a little over year ago. It required an ex-wife coming down from the US to confirm his wishes. He made no prior arrangements. Half his ashes were for wife to take back and half for Mexican girlfriend. Not sure what happened up north but we scattered his ashes on the beach here in Melaque.

Unless you want to be buried in your backyard ... don't take up the real estate


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## HolyMole (Jan 3, 2009)

I'm all for keeping costs as low as possible - and have opted for cremation, wherever death occurs. That said, I believe cremation is the exception, rather than the rule in Mexico, and cremation facilities exist only in the larger cities, (and maybe where there's a ready supply of aging gringos?)
That's an interesting statement about having a Mexican will. I can certainly see the necessity if one owns property in Mexico, but would a will be necessary with respect to making one's wishes known re burial vs. cremation?

As an aside: How do we log off? Can't find where or how.


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## Detailman (Aug 27, 2011)

HolyMole said:


> I'm all for keeping costs as low as possible - and have opted for cremation, wherever death occurs. That said, I believe cremation is the exception, rather than the rule in Mexico, and cremation facilities exist only in the larger cities, (and maybe where there's a ready supply of aging gringos?)
> That's an interesting statement about having a Mexican will. I can certainly see the necessity if one owns property in Mexico, but would a will be necessary with respect to making one's wishes known re burial vs. cremation?
> 
> As an aside: How do we log off? Can't find where or how.


At the top of the page you will see two separate dark green menu bars. The second one down has "LOG OUT" as the last item on it. Just click on it.


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## HolyMole (Jan 3, 2009)

Detailman said:


> At the top of the page you will see two separate dark green menu bars. The second one down has "LOG OUT" as the last item on it. Just click on it.


Nope, not on my screen. There was a time when putting my cursor on "User CP" would show a drop-down with "Log Out" (or "Log Off"), but that's no longer there.
Since I can't find the Log Off, I just close the site and move to something else....wondering if I've somehow left myself open to something.


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

HolyMole said:


> Nope, not on my screen. There was a time when putting my cursor on "User CP" would show a drop-down with "Log Out" (or "Log Off"), but that's no longer there.
> Since I can't find the Log Off, I just close the site and move to something else....wondering if I've somehow left myself open to something.


Curious. I see the "Log Out" button. After I log out, it is no longer there. 

This site sets a bunch of cookies when you are logged in. They tell the site who you are and keep track of which posts you have already viewed. This site does not use these cookies to track where you go when you are logged out, in the way that FaceBook does. But, if it concerns you, you can delete the cookies after logging out.


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## Detailman (Aug 27, 2011)

HolyMole said:


> Nope, not on my screen. There was a time when putting my cursor on "User CP" would show a drop-down with "Log Out" (or "Log Off"), but that's no longer there.
> Since I can't find the Log Off, I just close the site and move to something else....wondering if I've somehow left myself open to something.


I think that TundraGreen has the answer. If you are viewing the site to read the posts but have not logged in under your user name you will not see the "LOG OFF" button but if you have logged in with your user name and password it will appear and you can use it to log off and clear the cookies TG speaks about.


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## Anonimo (Apr 8, 2012)

Does anyone else see the unintended (?) irony in an off topic question about "logging off" during a discussion of burial vs cremation?

:focus:


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## Detailman (Aug 27, 2011)

Anonimo said:


> Does anyone else see the unintended (?) irony in an off topic question about "logging off" during a discussion of burial vs cremation?
> 
> :focus:


Good one Anonimo!! Didn't cross my mind. But now that I think about it ...


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## RVGRINGO (May 16, 2007)

surfrider said:


> R.V. thank for the info about the Lake Chapala Society - I did not know that. By the way - the R.V. ****** handle - do you drive an RV> just curious.


We did have a motorhome, but no more. I'm losing my eyesignt and can't even walk straight any more. I can touch-type, but must use my computer's voice to hear postings, once I find the damned cursor. So, I'm much less active than before.


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## stilltraveling (May 7, 2012)

I plan on a sky burial. If it's not available in the country where I shake off this moral coil, I'll have to go for cremation and scattering in the sea. I can't see the point of wasting precious land on a burial.


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## FHBOY (Jun 15, 2010)

stilltraveling said:


> I plan on a sky burial. If it's not available in the country where I shake off this moral coil, I'll have to go for cremation and scattering in the sea. I can't see the point of wasting precious land on a burial.


You may have already shaken off your moral coil, while not shaking off your mortal coil!


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## mickisue1 (Mar 10, 2012)

Sky burial is???


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## stilltraveling (May 7, 2012)

FHBOY said:


> You may have already shaken off your moral coil, while not shaking off your mortal coil!


Darn you spell check!!


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## stilltraveling (May 7, 2012)

mickisue1 said:


> Sky burial is???


Sky burial - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

stilltraveling said:


> Darn you spell check!!


Or maybe he just knows how to spell.


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## terrybahena (Oct 3, 2011)

My husband promised me to take a boat out to sea and throw me overboard! However we made need to add in cremation. My daughters would probly fly down for the closure of it. We spread my dad's ashes over Pt Reyes (N Calif coast) in 1980 and my mom's ashes, a year old in Sept are headed for Yosemite and a hike up her favorite trail to be spread.


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## HolyMole (Jan 3, 2009)

Detailman said:


> I think that TundraGreen has the answer. If you are viewing the site to read the posts but have not logged in under your user name you will not see the "LOG OFF" button but if you have logged in with your user name and password it will appear and you can use it to log off and clear the cookies TG speaks about.


Still nope. (Of course if I was just "visiting" and had not logged-in, I wouldn't need to "log-off").
There's no Log Out button anywhere on my screen, or as a drop-down. Nada.

And kudos to the poster who equated "logging out" with the main topic. I KNEW I wasn't off-topic.


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## cuylers5746 (Mar 19, 2012)

*Mexican Funeral Laws*



TundraGreen said:


> The Panteon de Mezquitan (cemetery) near me has a sign pointing out that 6 years are required before they can reuse the space if you are buried, but only 3 months if you are cremated first. I suspect this appeals to families with limited space.


Here's my 3 cents worth; Gotta have a sense of humor til the end, eh?

1.) Federal Law, you MUST be buried within 24 hours! Only your State Govt. offices can give
a waiver on this, and then you must be embalmed like in the States, and then special
permits to cross any Mexican State lines, or into USA. This is very serious thing in Mexican
Law. Get about 15 Certified Original Copies of the Death Certificate. Between USA 
Insurances, Mexican Insurances, Hospitals, Govt. Agency's on both sides of the Border you 
need them. We did with my Mother who passed away in a Hospital in Ensenada, Baja and 
now, years later we only had two left over.
2.) If you die via an accident or anything remotely questionable - then expect that the Mexican
Govt. will demand an autopsy be conducted before they release the body to your family.
(happened to my Brother-on-Law when we died of a Coronary Arrest on a Surfing Trip in
Baja). Unless you die in Bed with your Personal Physican here in Mexico signing off on
cause of death, or die in the Hospital after ton's of test were taken, that would equate any
way to an Autopsy, your body might have to endure that.

The whole idea behind this law is that the Mexican Govt. doesn't not want anything to do
with finger pointing as to the cause of death after the fact with the US Embassy involved and
with the family. Smart, and correct approach - I would say?
3.) Cremation, for carrying across Mexican State Lines and into USA (done that) require you
have Certified Original Copies of the death Certificate. Way cheaper way to go.
4.) Pantions, or Cemetaries in Mexico. Now a days there's some where you can actually buy
the plot like in the USA, but most are renting you the space. Have to repay each year or
what ever terms they made to you - or out with your bones. 

Me, I personally think the Cremation is a whole lot more humane way to go. But, if my family wants to put me in their Family Crypt that dates back to 1800's, then they can, but I demand
a Louisiana Style, Banda type Band accompany me along with my friends all the way to the Pantion.


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## mickisue1 (Mar 10, 2012)

cuylers5746 said:


> Here's my 3 cents worth; Gotta have a sense of humor til the end, eh?
> 
> 1.) Federal Law, you MUST be buried within 24 hours! Only your State Govt. offices can give
> a waiver on this, and then you must be embalmed like in the States, and then special
> ...


That's all well and good. But how do you simultaneously arrange for the autopsy and the burial within 24 hours?

As for sky burial...it's an idea that I think I need to ponder. I understand it from an intellectual POV, not quite at the point where I can understand it from an emotional one.

And, that much the less, my kids.

My extended family is very big on the big Catholic funeral, complete with a LONG wake.

But their wishes are not what concerns me. It's getting closure for my husband (should he outlive me) and my kids, and any grandkids that may magically appeared by the time I die.

I know that they, all, are in favor of cremation and scattering the ashes in a place that's meaningful to the dead one. So, we're good on that score.

NOW. That's done. We can all go on with this amazing life, for a long long time.


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## Longford (May 25, 2012)

I've cared for family and friends, as they prepare for "the end." I live in and am active in a building where more than 50 people have died in less than a decade. In every instance regarding family/friends and with many of my neighbors I was friendly with ... they reverted to traditional values/customs regarding final arrangements. I think that's natural. What we think now is really irrelevant. It's the rare/unusual person who shuns family/friends and the values they were raised with.


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## edgeee (Jun 21, 2012)

Anonimo said:


> Does anyone else see the unintended (?) irony in an off topic question about "logging off" during a discussion of burial vs cremation?
> 
> :focus:


thanks for the heads up.
you are quite perceptive my friend.
but if its all the same to you, i'd rather not add suicide to the mix.

while i'm here i want to mention one thing.
_(sure, of course, *just ONE thing!*)_

my wife and i both wish to be cremated upon our demise, hopefully not at the same time. (tho i'm not quite sure why.)

my original reasoning - from fifty years ago - was that devoting precious land to deposit bones seemed illogical; i was Spock before there was Spock.
cremation just always seemed to be more considerate and more sensible.
after all, it's hard to take a grave with you if you move.

but we have slightly divergent views on the matter.
i claim she wants to keep my ashes so she can continue to yell at me after i'm gone.
she says it's so she can ignore me as often as she wants.

either way, i'm just dying to see how hot this topic can get when y'all turn up the gas.
but please, don't start piling on dirt.
no clods allowed.


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## HolyMole (Jan 3, 2009)

edgeee said:


> ....
> i claim she wants to keep my ashes so she can continue to yell at me after i'm gone.
> she says it's so she can ignore me as often as she wants.
> 
> ...


Reminds me of that cartoon, (Herman, maybe?) where the elderly couple are sitting across from each other, in their favourite living room chairs, each behind their newspaper, when she says: "Do you want to be buried or cremated?"
Without looking past his newspaper, he replies: "Surprise me."


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## ptrichmondmike (Aug 26, 2010)

surfrider said:


> Just been thinking about a question and thought I would throw it out for discussion. We are all going to have to look into the future and figure out what we want to happen to us when we die if we are still living in Mexico at the time.
> I am sure some of you already have plans on this and I thought (morbid as it may seem to some) if we should open this up for discussion? I would much rather think about surfing but physical realities do happen and we (I think) should have some idea about what to do.


Morbid? Not at all. I'd call it inevitable.

Me, I plan to walk into the desert and let the vultures take me. Like the Parsis do, in India. It's very cost-effective, with a very small carbon footprint.


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## edgeee (Jun 21, 2012)

ptrichmondmike said:


> Morbid? Not at all. I'd call it inevitable.
> 
> Me, I plan to walk into the desert and let the vultures take me. Like the Parsis do, in India. It's very cost-effective, with a very small carbon footprint.


good luck with that Mike.
but how do you find the strength to find the buzzards, far enough away that you only attract the winged type of vulture.

and chances are you won't really have enough time to make that decision.

but i do admire the spirit inside the idea.


via con dios mi amigo.

p.s.
as a kid, i watched vultures by the dozens roost in trees in the river bottoms.
while riding the school bus, of all things.
now that i live in urban areas, i never see one, seldom even see a hawk.


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## surfrider (Oct 4, 2011)

The American Indians would also leave the dying behind with a few days food and then whatever. My Dad always said that he would just go off into the hills and wait for death. However, as stated above, planing for something does not always work out. He died very quickly without any knowledge that death was coming. 
I do not think that the actual "death" of a person has much to do with the person who is doing the dying but has more to do with the loved ones left behind. But having never experienced it before - who knows? For me, I think of the grand children and family and want to ease their sorrow (or joy?) with having something for emotional closure.


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## ptrichmondmike (Aug 26, 2010)

Lol...edge and surf -- I'm more likely to be felled suddenly than to slowly waste away, so I doubt if I would ever get the chance. But it's romantic notion, no? I hear spaghetti western music...

Anyone here remember Bishop Pike?


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## edgeee (Jun 21, 2012)

surfrider said:


> . . . I do not think that the actual "death" of a person has much to do with the person who is doing the dying but has more to do with the loved ones left behind. But having never experienced it before - who knows? For me, I think of the grand children and family and want to ease their sorrow (or joy?) with having something for emotional closure.


like you, i don't know what to expect, but it must be pretty special.
i do believe reincarnation is a possibility, like a privilege to be earned maybe.

the case of James Leininger, an 11 year old boy at the time of the story on FOX, is enough proof for me.
i'm no fan of FOX, but they got this right. Youtube has the video, and the book _Soul Survivor_ takes the whole idea much further.

i'm pretty sure it was on 60 Minutes too, tho i couldn't find it online. However,
i remember seeing a story like this, probably the same one, expanded, but the boy had a scar that matched with the fatal wound on his previous body. 
that's enough for me. makes me look at Shirley McClain in a different way.

and yes, from this viewpoint, the survivors do take center stage eventually.
i wonder if we can look back and see who is glad or sad that we are gone?

p.s.
mike, you're showing your age.


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## edgeee (Jun 21, 2012)

sorry, i left out the best part.

where was the soul of James Huston for more than 50 years until James Leininger was born?


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## RVGRINGO (May 16, 2007)

Reincarnation can work if you don't buy the expensive casket and vault. Then, you will have a few choices for your form upon return: worm, bug or grass. Burial at sea offers another choice: seafood.


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## ptrichmondmike (Aug 26, 2010)

>>p.s.
mike, you're showing your age. <<

Watch it, sonny! There's a world of wisdom 'neath this wrinkled brow.


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## surfrider (Oct 4, 2011)

so do you need a body to be reincarnated from - just thinking of Hoffa? 
I like the die and go to heaven thing - don't get me wrong, I had more life and living by the time I was 40 than most people have in 90 years. I have had a ball and still am - but once is enough for me - I am always ready to start a new adventure, I do not want to come back and do it over. Would not change anything that I did or did not do in this life. I want to see what is next and I want it to be something different.


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## edgeee (Jun 21, 2012)

RVGRINGO said:


> Reincarnation can work if you don't buy the expensive casket and vault. Then, you will have a few choices for your form upon return: worm, bug or grass. Burial at sea offers another choice: seafood.


RVGRINGO, i have missed you lately my friend.

list the things that are impossible. 
you are smudging the line, unless you think grass has a soul. 
bugs and worms, maybe, i won't say they don't. it all hinges on what the word soul means. 
studies show that some plants like to be talked to.

it reminds me of the discussion about whether other animals have emotions, feelings if you will.
some people will swear they don't. beats me.

but let me impose a bit, with apologies.

about five years i was being my usual useless sloth, online and TV on too.
Oprah can be very inspiring, and that day she moved me to make this modest effort.
i hope you like it.

this post is long, but i'm real fond of worms, and you mentioned them first.

The Noble Earthworm
By reeeldeeep
@Authornation(dot)com
*​
Today on Oprah a lot was said about the earth and how we abuse her.

They also discussed modifying our lifestyle to diminish the negative impacts we make every day.
It went pretty well for about five minutes.

First Oprah introduced her friend and fellow world saver, Julia Roberts.
Then some woman (I missed her name) came out to demonstrate the beauty and value of some tricks they want all of us to learn.

Usually you can count on Oprah to come up with a deserving topic, and valuable knowledge of what is causing the problem, 
with steps to correct things that you and I can take.
She is a bit of a hero that way. Not always the brightest bulb on the marquis, 
but selfless to a fault when it comes to the desire to help others.
It is only a matter of time until she is awarded a Nobel Prize. It will not be for driving though.

She correctly judges that spontaneity makes her show better, and her reactions can be priceless to behold.
On this day, the third woman showed off a fancy compost container with one wall transparent so we could see the ingredients.
To me it looked fake, the layers so distinct, it could not be real, but why be picky?

As they raced through the benefits and how easy it is to do, 
Julia Roberts was given the chore of demonstrating how to stir the compost, a must-do that makes it work.
I think Julia mentioned her own working unit at home, but I may have imagined it.

J.R. reached in the top of the tall unit -well above her waist, maybe up to her armpits,
(my mind is already purposely blocking out the traumatic memory details),
with a long tool and proceeded to ‘stir' the compost.
I think she managed to dig all the way into the second of about seven layers.
It was embarrassing to watch.

The punch line made it worth all that painful waiting and watching.
As all people who are serious about such things know, 
what really makes the whole thing work is the noble earthworm.
(it will decompose without them, but the tailings add sooo much. you could say, "it's the real $h1t"!)
the best rich topsoil you could ever ask for comes out when the earthworm eats the garbage in your compost container.

When woman #3 introduced the earthworm in to the mixture, I thought Julia and Oprah were going to faint.
Those two heroes nearly ran off the stage at the mere sight of the puny (but slimy) wonder workers.

If the champions of the cause are this ignorant of the facts and this squeamish about the simple easy parts, 
how much help can they be when it starts getting ugly (uglier)?
How much can simple everyday people change things for the better?
Actually, quite a bit; in fact no one else can help more.
That's really the point the saviors are selling, even if the watchers don't know it.
They join the revolution without even wondering what their cause is.

Maybe celebrity does have a true benefit to society after all; they convince more of us to do what is needed, 
(when they actually get that part correct).

I wonder how many saw this and noticed the marvelous lesson inside the lesson.

The tiny creatures at the bottom of the heap are the ones who make it all work.

Without them it just rots away.

Just between you, the compost, and me I think I will just wiggle away.

Remember, two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts do.
Happy trails, ed.
Copyright 2008, an excerpt from "_The Most Recent Rock in the Road_", by ed elledge.

(mention microbes if you want, i didn't have sufficient space for such.)


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

edgeee said:


> ...
> When woman #3 introduced the earthworm in to the mixture,
> ...


There is an effort to introduce worm composting to rural areas in Mexico. SEMARNAT (Mexican EPA sort of) has a demonstration worm composting facility in Ciudad Guzman.


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## stilltraveling (May 7, 2012)

TundraGreen said:


> There is an effort to introduce worm composting to rural areas in Mexico. SEMARNAT (Mexican EPA sort of) has a demonstration worm composting facility in Ciudad Guzman.


Interesting thing about earthworms; they aren't indigenous to the Americas. They were brought over by Europeans in the 16th century. I can't imagine how the soil managed for as long as it did without them.


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## edgeee (Jun 21, 2012)

stilltraveling said:


> Interesting thing about earthworms; they aren't indigenous to the Americas. They were brought over by Europeans in the 16th century. I can't imagine how the soil managed for as long as it did without them.


Quite correct sir. A worm farmer educated me some about that process.

they aren't the source of all good soil, but they do a good job of helping it along.
without them, other items induce good results.
where i grew up, in river bottoms in southern Illinois, we benefited from what is known as "the original black gold".
dirt so dark it looked like coal. it is still that way today through much of Illinois.

not sure when the earthworms arrived but they had good stuff to work with.
for thousands of years the area had been swamps, and as they slowly drained the rich soil became tillable.

but i still think i don't want to be buried there.
i'm a wanderer, a ramblin' man, and i don't want my bones bound by geography.


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## mickisue1 (Mar 10, 2012)

stilltraveling said:


> Interesting thing about earthworms; they aren't indigenous to the Americas. They were brought over by Europeans in the 16th century. I can't imagine how the soil managed for as long as it did without them.


Probably with the native microorganisms, many of which are in danger from the new farming ideal of no weeds and no bugs.

See? We're back to biochemistry.


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## ptrichmondmike (Aug 26, 2010)

stilltraveling said:


> Interesting thing about earthworms; they aren't indigenous to the Americas. They were brought over by Europeans in the 16th century. I can't imagine how the soil managed for as long as it did without them.


Are you sure about that? I dimly remember from a zoology class that there were a couple of species of earthworms in North America before European contact, but that introduced earhworms quickly came to dominate that particular niche.


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## mickisue1 (Mar 10, 2012)

Interesting--you're both right.

Native species that lived south of the glaciers survived the last ice age. But those in the glaciated areas did not.

And, as is the case with so many other exotic species, the non-natives rushed in to fill the gap, when they were introduced, probably from ballast filled with dirt, dumped on shore when ships landed here from Europe.

There's a whole article about the damage that they do to the forest floor in MN, where the native flora developed a worm-free ecosystem. Worms speed up decomposition to such a rate that the seedlings, which evolved with thick layers of fallen leaves to grow up in, struggle to survive.

All this, from a discussion on how one deals with one's human remains after death. 

It's been a good day. I learned a lot!


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## edgeee (Jun 21, 2012)

mickisue1 said:


> Interesting--you're both right.
> 
> Native species that lived south of the glaciers survived the last ice age. But those in the glaciated areas did not.
> 
> ...


i agree.
any day i learn new things is a good day.
very interesting that the worms can also be a problem for certain plants.
i did not know they have a dark side, but it fits my notion of things in general.
balance will always exist, and it doesn't really care whether i notice or not.

i think mike is probably right too.
when i mention worms, i think of the ones i know about, and the ones i DON'T know about are probably too numerous to count.
it just makes sense that some kind of worm has been here forever.

i do feel some guilt because i'm sooo off topic.
if i was the OP, i might be sitting back, cursing, wondering,
"yes, that's all good, but it doesn't answer my question!"

so, if i come to live in Mexico, when i die who decides such things?
of course the local authorities will decide, but where is the line that tells them it is up to someone else or some legal document to make that call?

i don't want to think about that, but i'm sure the OP wants us to.


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