# USA to Spain??



## starzz (Sep 10, 2010)

First, I want to thank all of you for the valuable information you have posted as it has really helped me with this decision-making process.

My husband and I met in Santander, where his parent live, and have currently been living in the USA, which is where I am from. We are thinking about moving back to Spain to be closer to his parents for a few years as we have spent 7 years here with my family. We also have an 11 mo. old daughter. I am a certified Spanish teacher who also has experience in the hotel and pharmaceutical industries. My husband is an industrial engineer. Ideally, we would be interested in moving to northern Spain to be closer to his parents. However, from what we can see on infojobs, the majority of job opportunities for us would be in Madrid or Barcelona. I know the economy is not good in Spain right now and we would not be able to move for another 1-2 years as we need to save a lot of money and take care of all of the paperwork, etc. However, we are trying to make the decision as to whether we should stay in the USA and just visit Spain or if we want to make the big move permanently(or at least for a few years). Therefore, any information you have would be greatly appreciated. 

I am especially interested to hear from any Americans or Canadians as you also have a long flight home like me. I would also love any members input; however, I have never been to England or the UK, so I am not experienced in what your daily life is like there. If you are from the USA/Canada, could you please tell me if you are happy that you moved to Spain? We are trying to figure out where we would have the best quality of life for our family, which I know is subjective to each individual. I know that it is a completely different lifestyle in Spain, which I love, but I know jobs are hard to come by and pay much less. However, I like the Spanish lifestyle and would love to be able to travel in Europe with my children as they grow up. From what I have read on other posts, it is also a great place to raise kids. Do you agree?

Again, thank you all for any and all information.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

starzz said:


> First, I want to thank all of you for the valuable information you have posted as it has really helped me with this decision-making process.
> 
> My husband and I met in Santander, where his parent live, and have currently been living in the USA, which is where I am from. We are thinking about moving back to Spain to be closer to his parents for a few years as we have spent 7 years here with my family. We also have an 11 mo. old daughter. I am a certified Spanish teacher who also has experience in the hotel and pharmaceutical industries. My husband is an industrial engineer. Ideally, we would be interested in moving to northern Spain to be closer to his parents. However, from what we can see on infojobs, the majority of job opportunities for us would be in Madrid or Barcelona. I know the economy is not good in Spain right now and we would not be able to move for another 1-2 years as we need to save a lot of money and take care of all of the paperwork, etc. However, we are trying to make the decision as to whether we should stay in the USA and just visit Spain or if we want to make the big move permanently(or at least for a few years). Therefore, any information you have would be greatly appreciated.
> 
> ...


hi & welcome

I'm from the UK, so can't help specifically - but there are a couple of regular posters in 'Spain' from the US who will no doubt answer - & some in other parts of Europe too


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## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

I'm a bit north of Spain (i.e. in France) but I can give you a bit of perspective on the distance issue. Living overseas is always going to be "different" - different from how you're living in the US and different from what you expect when you first arrive. You have to kind of resolve to roll with the punches. Much of it is great, but there will be tough spots - loneliness, missing family members, missing certain favorites from "back home" including some of the many conveniences Americans take for granted. It comes and goes the first few years out.

As Americans (or Canadians or Aussies) we have a long flight back if we just want to visit - and depending on work and financial circumstances, it may work out that you are lucky to get back home once a year for a couple of weeks. I've gone through periods as long as 2 or 3 years between visits - but I've got a fairly small family back there and not that many family ties left.

It's easy to become jealous of the Brits, who are much closer to home and can get back more easily and more cheaply when necessary. When you're planning your budget, be sure to include both time and budget for periodic trips "home" including emergency money for a short-notice trip should parents or other family members require your presence in case of death, illness or other tragedy. You need to have some idea in your mind of what level of emergency will warrant a trip back across the pond, and possibly acknowledge the possibility that you won't be able to "be there" for some critical events.

Over time, too, your ties to the US tend to fade and the US becomes more and more of a foreign country when you're back there. This is not necessarily a bad thing, but for some people it can cause some concerns. Take a look at Bill Bryson's book "I'm a Stranger Here Myself" for a fun treatment of the notion of returning "home" as a foreigner. (It's significant that he wound up moving back to the UK.) Oh, and don't forget to file your US tax returns. You never get out of that little "custom" no matter where in the world you live. (It will also be an obligation for your kids for the rest of their lives.)
Cheers,
Bev


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## Guest (Sep 11, 2010)

starzz said:


> My husband and I met in Santander, where his parent live, and have currently been living in the USA, which is where I am from. We are thinking about moving back to Spain to be closer to his parents for a few years as we have spent 7 years here with my family. We also have an 11 mo. old daughter. I am a certified Spanish teacher who also has experience in the hotel and pharmaceutical industries. My husband is an industrial engineer. Ideally, we would be interested in moving to northern Spain to be closer to his parents. However, from what we can see on infojobs, the majority of job opportunities for us would be in Madrid or Barcelona. I know the economy is not good in Spain right now and we would not be able to move for another 1-2 years as we need to save a lot of money and take care of all of the paperwork, etc. However, we are trying to make the decision as to whether we should stay in the USA and just visit Spain or if we want to make the big move permanently(or at least for a few years). Therefore, any information you have would be greatly appreciated.


First, where was/is your husband certified as an industrial engineer? Did he attend university in the States or in Spain? I ask this because you (and possibly he) will possibly need to legalize (_homologar_) your degree(s). I am currently waiting to hear what the Ministry of Education has to say about my degree. It's a bit of a pain, and if you majored in Spanish, you might not have you degree recognized as having a Spanish major automatically, as a Spanish degree in Spain is quite different than one from the US/Canada - this is the problem I have. 

Regarding jobs, have you looked at work in Pais Vasco or Asturias? I was looking at the "Catálogo de ocupaciones de difícil cobertura" and there's a number of regions which need engineers, but I'm not sure if your husbands studies fit into the demand. Finding work as a Spanish teacher will be a bit more difficult, but you can most definitely take advantage of the fact that you speak both languages, especially up here in the north where we're few and far between. Be flexible, and you should do fine! 

As for the munchkin, most Cantabrian schools take kids as young as two for _infantil_, and a number of them are now accepting babies as well. I've really been impressed with the schools in Cantabria, and the real push they're giving for bi/trilingualism. 



starzz said:


> I am especially interested to hear from any Americans or Canadians as you also have a long flight home like me. I would also love any members input; however, I have never been to England or the UK, so I am not experienced in what your daily life is like there. If you are from the USA/Canada, could you please tell me if you are happy that you moved to Spain? We are trying to figure out where we would have the best quality of life for our family, which I know is subjective to each individual. I know that it is a completely different lifestyle in Spain, which I love, but I know jobs are hard to come by and pay much less. However, I like the Spanish lifestyle and would love to be able to travel in Europe with my children as they grow up. From what I have read on other posts, it is also a great place to raise kids. Do you agree?



I'll be getting married to a boy from Pais Vasco next summer, and we're planning to stay here for awhile. Once both of us become full time teachers in the national system, we're hoping to apply for a spot in one of the official Spanish schools in the United States so that we can both have work over there, albeit for a placement of one or two years. The ONLY thing that I've found significantly difficult is with my family. It's been tough for some to understand that I've moved half way around the world, and there have been some... disagreements. That is *very* tough. But, I hope, with time things will get better. 

Combined, we both make enough to get through the month paying the car and the mortgage but I try to squirrel away enough for trip(s) to the states, whether for emergency or to visit. Tickets from Bilbao to the US are running around 700-800 euros if you buy them far enough in advance. If you're flying into a more "major" US airport (NYC) you could probably find cheaper tickets out of Madrid. I choose to pay a wee bit more and fly out of Bilbao because I'd have to spend that amount on a bus/train/gas to Madrid anyhow. I'm not sure what the flights are like out of Santander, but it's a much smaller airport. 

As for lifestyle... I hate to say one is better than the other. I don't know where in the States you're from, so I'll make the comparison as what it would be for me. 

Pay for a teacher in the US is much higher. If you're interested, I can try and find the table for what a public school teacher earns each month in Cantabria. However, in my opinion, your work hours as a public school teacher will be far less than you have in the States. Jobs, in my opinion, are just as difficult to come by as they are in the States. The vast majority of kids I graduated with three years ago are still scraping by as waiters/waitresses or living at home, still searching for a job. I have a friend here who just graduated as an engineer, and he's having a tough time (although I'm not sure just how hard he's looking.) There's only two people out of my friends and family that I can think of who are not working right now. 

In my opinion, Spain is a good place to raise kids. In the US, I was able to play outside constantly and with my bike, I had free range over my small town. That was good. Here, kids seem to be welcome pretty much anywhere. You have the same classic problems of adolescence here as you would there. Families seem a bit closer here than there, which could be a good or bad thing depending on how you feel. 

I don't think you'd need to worry that much about paperwork. So long as your marriage and your child are registered with the Spanish government you shouldn't have to do much (if anything) back in the States. 

I think it's worth it. I'm happy here, and am finding random work quite easy to come by. PM me if you're interested in a teaching opportunity in Cantabria, and I can give you further details. 

Best of luck! It's a tough decision, but everything will work out.


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## Guest (Sep 11, 2010)

*moved from another thread*



starzz said:


> Anyways, we are not 100% sure about whether to move to Spain or not as the economy isn't good right now so if we did move, it would probably be 1-2 years from now. Also, I am a certified Spanish teacher here in SC. I was hoping to teach English in Spain, but I still have a lot of research to do. My husband is an engineer. Bilbao would be a great location for us; however, we don't speak Basque, so I'm assuming that would be a major issue for us. Therefore, we've thought of Madrid and Barcelona just because of the higher prospect of job opportunities, but would really like to be more in northern Spain. How is the Bilbao area? Do you like it? Have you had success finding jobs? What do you miss about the USA? Are you glad you made the move? Sorry for all of the questions, but I'm just trying to get as much information as possible before we make a decision. Finally, I noticed you mentioned the DELE. What is the benefit of doing that and is it necessary? Thanks for all of your help!


First, here's another site with job listings to take a look at. I have it searching in Vizcaya, but you can change to whatever region you would like: Anuncios gratis Empleo Vizcaya 3507 
There is a listing for an "ingeniero de procesos" today - Ingeniero de procesos senior - Vizcaya - 11/09/2010 : TusAnuncios.com

I was going to suggest you look at Bilbao. I don't think you or your husband would have many problems with Euskera, as I'm not sure just how much of a requirement it is in the public sector. ESPECIALLY since the both of you fluently (I assume) speak English. The last election brought the socialists to power in Pais Vasco, although I'm not sure how long it will last. The "great linguistic change" that some had hoped for hasn't, for now, come around. However, it is rumored that even those who have a very low level of Basque language are able to find public sector work. My fiancé is from here - _de toda la vida_ - but refuses to take the required language exam and thus cannot work as a teacher in his home region. Therefore, we both work in Cantabria. However, I reiterate that I'm not sure that it is/would be a problem in the public sector. 

As an American certified teacher, you might be able to find work in the American school here in Bilbao. There's also British schools in Vizcaya and Asturias, but to the best of my knowledge nothing comparable in Cantabria. Your greatest problem will be that you're a Spanish teacher. Would you be willing to switch gears and teach English? I studied to be a Spanish teacher, but am happy as a foreign language teacher, albeit English. Same deal, different country. 

I have had a lot of "stupid" luck with employment. I am officially here on a _beca_. However, through contacts I have been able to find other opportunities quite easily. My poor fiancé is quite jealous, and I feel bad. Just last night he commented that in the long run it's going to be me who "brings home the bread." You will find that here in the north, skills of a bilingual native are, for now, very much in demand. 

I miss my family. I miss silly little things like the bank being open from 7 am to 7 pm, or stores that are open on Sunday. I miss America's enormous variety of foods and international cuisine. I'M SICK OF ALUBIAS AND CHORIZO!  All of these things I can get over, but as I've mentioned the family issue is the greatest hurdle. It's tough, but at least I have the support of a few in the family. 

I am happy I "made the move," especially since it means I met my man  ZTo be honest, I don't think I would be as happy in any other region of Spain. It's a combination of the people and the landscape here that help keep me happy. The paperwork can be a pain in the neck, but if you take it all with a smile and a good sense of humor you should do fine!

I took the DELE Superior because in 2012 I hope to take the _oposiciones_ to be come an English teacher in the public system. If you're not a native Spanish speaker, they make you take a Spanish test - IF you don't have the DELE. I'm not sure whether or not it's needed for the private sector, but it's a pretty paper to have and be able to hand in here with other papers. I think it's worth the 110 it costs. As a Spanish teacher, you shouldn't have any problems. I spent a lot of time doing the online practice tests, and studying a number of Spanish phrases (eg. "estar de Rodriguez", etc.) and passed. The only thing that nearly tripped me up was grammar, but I passed! 

Anyhow, I'm more than happy to help with whatever questions you may have.


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## Caz.I (Mar 21, 2009)

Halydia, 
Let us know how you get on at the Ministry of Education re your degree, would be interesting to know. Mind you, I have heard it can take a while...


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## Guest (Sep 11, 2010)

Caz.I said:


> Halydia,
> Let us know how you get on at the Ministry of Education re your degree, would be interesting to know. Mind you, I have heard it can take a while...


I've been waiting since April...


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## geez (Apr 4, 2010)

Hi Starzz,

Looks like Halydia has given you a wealth of good advise there but I'll chip in too. I'm not from the US but have lived there for a couple of years in different places so I'm familiar with some aspects of the lifestyle there and here.

Our situation: my OH (Swiss-Australian) is in mechanical engineering too, but on the practitioner side of things. He is considered an engineer when he works in the States, but not in Europe. As your partner is from Spain he's well aware of the differences professionally (ie, that engineering is in some respects better respected here in Spain and Europe generally, but can be lower on the pay scales). My OH works here in Bilbao and enjoys the work environment immensely, perhaps more than the location itself. We are more big city people, really, and find Bilbao a little provincial at times even though there is some amazing developments happening here (Guggenheim, etc). Some aspects of the lifestyle here remind me of the things that also concern me about my home country, Australia. Binge-drinking is much more an aspect of life here than it is elsewhere in Spain. Having said all that, Bilbao is kind of growing on me slowly, but after spending two years in Barcelona we find that we are a longing for a place that is a little bit more international in focus (strangely given the relatively good employment prospects here in Bizcaya, there's actually a lot fewer migrants and people tend to stay in the one job, one spot forever). There are many things on the plus side: we love the public transport (not having to have a car easily pays for a couple of long-haul flights each year; Bilbao is soon to be connect via fast trains to France and Madrid), the quality of food very good, the location is brilliant (we just spent the weekend in France, you've great beaches, mountains, etc), and the people are warm once you break through.

I would not worry about Basque language requirement for your partner's employment prospects. His English will be a great selling point, though. The Euskara requirement seems to be limited to public sector employment, and I gather the standard required is generally not too flash. It's a politically fraught topic in this part of the world, but it would be a great surprise if the quoted figures on fluency in the Euskara reflect reality, at least in Biskaya. As a teacher of language you'll no doubt understand the difference between passing high school language tests and fluency, and perhaps the two are a little confused here. In fact, we live right in the centre of Bilbao and I must admit that I hear more French here than Euskara. Castellano is the lingua franca. Back onto pay, I gather that many of the engineering pay rates are based on national agreements and these don't really work too well for regions such as Pais Vasco and Catalunya where the cost of living is around 30% more than the national average so that is definitely something to consider. On getting a job, I'd advise your partner to mine his contacts... it's the way people get jobs in this country.

I'm with Halydia on the DELE front... it's likely to make your life easier. I was studying for it a few months ago but tossed it in for the time being when morning sickness set in. I'll get back to it post-baby (ha!). On kids: this is one of the reasons to move to Spain. I've lived in so many countries and would rate Spain as the best place to bring up kids. We are trying to find a way of staying longer as we await our first. 

I've only popped over to Santander for the odd weekend but love it. It's not without industry as well so I would not be ruling it out as an option.

Best of luck with your plans.


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## Guest (Sep 13, 2010)

geez said:


> I'm with Halydia on the DELE front... it's likely to make your life easier. I was studying for it a few months ago but tossed it in for the time being when morning sickness set in. I'll get back to it post-baby (ha!).


Side note: If you need a book to study for the superior level, let me know. I've got the "Punto Final: Curso Superior ELE" book and answer key. I didn't end up using it much, since I found doing all of the practice tests they had online far more useful. 

Ok - sorry - :focus:


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## Guest (Sep 14, 2010)

Caz.I said:


> Halydia,
> Let us know how you get on at the Ministry of Education re your degree, would be interesting to know. Mind you, I have heard it can take a while...


Update: I went to the office today and asked about the status of my homologación a grado (please note: this is NOT full blown homologación of what I studied - just "a grado de licenciada"). I was told that my case is open, and should´ve been resolved two months ago. We sent a nice letter telling them to please hurry up. So, the saga continues.


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## Caz.I (Mar 21, 2009)

halydia said:


> Update: I went to the office today and asked about the status of my homologación a grado (please note: this is NOT full blown homologación of what I studied - just "a grado de licenciada"). I was told that my case is open, and should´ve been resolved two months ago. We sent a nice letter telling them to please hurry up. So, the saga continues.


Well at least they havent lost your file then, that is something! The reason I said it might take a while is because I know of someone who had to wait 7 years before she got her qualification validated!  However, I am sure this was an extreme case, although I have heard about people losing the offer of a job because it took so long to do it. I suppose it depends on the specific qualification and the backlog of cases they have to work through.

In Europe they have introduced a system called Europass whereby all European qualifications can be given a European grading to show what level it corresponds to in different European countries. It has only just started so I dont think all, or many, countries are using it yet but I think anyone using it would still need to go through the same process as you anyway.


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## starzz (Sep 10, 2010)

*Thanks!*



halydia said:


> First, where was/is your husband certified as an industrial engineer? Did he attend university in the States or in Spain? I ask this because you (and possibly he) will possibly need to legalize (_homologar_) your degree(s). I am currently waiting to hear what the Ministry of Education has to say about my degree. It's a bit of a pain, and if you majored in Spanish, you might not have you degree recognized as having a Spanish major automatically, as a Spanish degree in Spain is quite different than one from the US/Canada - this is the problem I have.
> 
> Regarding jobs, have you looked at work in Pais Vasco or Asturias? I was looking at the "Catálogo de ocupaciones de difícil cobertura" and there's a number of regions which need engineers, but I'm not sure if your husbands studies fit into the demand. Finding work as a Spanish teacher will be a bit more difficult, but you can most definitely take advantage of the fact that you speak both languages, especially up here in the north where we're few and far between. Be flexible, and you should do fine!
> 
> ...


Thank you for all of the information. As far as our degrees, my husband looked into getting his degree validated. I think it will be a beneficial process to go through; however, he did ask 2 friends that are living in Madrid and Barcelona about their degrees. They said that they did not go through the homologacion process and they have not had any problems with getting jobs nor has anyone asked for it. My husband also found out that for engineers, they can work w/o validating their degrees; however, if they will be doing any designing, then they must do the homologacion. As for my degree in Spanish, I agree with you that it is not the same as getting a degree in Spanish from Spain....so I think my degree will be pretty worthless there. However, I am hoping that my teaching experience as well as my professional certification to teach in the USA will be worth something. From what I've read, it seems that I need to get the CELTA; however, I'm not sure with my experience if I could get by with just the TEFL or if I need CELTA....I'll have to look into that. Thanks for mentioning the DELE, I think that would be very helpful to me to take that. I can't thank you enough for all of the information you have provided and for responding to my post. Congratulations on your engagement! Also, as I come up with more questions and begin the process, I hope you don't mind if I ask you some other things later....I just don't know what else to ask about right now. Thanks again!


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## starzz (Sep 10, 2010)

*engineering degree*



geez said:


> Hi Starzz,
> 
> Looks like Halydia has given you a wealth of good advise there but I'll chip in too. I'm not from the US but have lived there for a couple of years in different places so I'm familiar with some aspects of the lifestyle there and here.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the information on Bilbao, we are definitely going to look into that. Also, what is your husband considered to be in Europe? You said that he was a mechanical engineer; however, he's not recognized as that in Europe. You said you were from Barcelona, which I love Barcelona. So you like Barcelona better than Bilbao? I loved Barcelona, but it would be far from my husband's family in Santander. Madrid or Bilbao would be better locations for us in order to be closer to his family, but I do love Barcelona. I did not know that Bilbao was so much more expensive than the rest of the country; however, Madrid and Barcelona would still be more expensive to live in, right?

Also, congratulations! I know it is an exciting time for you and your husband! 

Thanks again for all of the information!


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