# Landlord Problem



## Trubrit (Nov 24, 2010)

I moved in to a really nice rented house in August but the landlord is obnoxious and refuses to do anything about the problems I have including:

one of the circuits in the house does not work so we have problems with some lights and sockets.

There is a problem with the sewage exploding (yes exploding) in to the toilet of an unused bathroom and covering the floor with muck.

On my contract the landlord is an inversion company in Madrid but the actual owner seems to be a lawyer in Madrid and the last time I asked him to rectify the problems all I had back was a note saying "IT IS NOT A HOTEL"

Can anyone please advise me on the path to take.


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

Trubrit said:


> I moved in to a really nice rented house in August but the landlord is obnoxious and refuses to do anything about the problems I have including:
> 
> one of the circuits in the house does not work so we have problems with some lights and sockets.
> 
> ...



Firstly, to answer your specific question, 'I don't know'.

What does it say in the contract in respect of repairs?

What I would do is to write to him stating that as he will not repair basic items, then you will get them repaired and then take the costs out of any rent due.

Get the problems fixed, keep PROPER receipts showing IVA paid, company numbers etc. and then submit them with any remaining rent due.


This may, however, be a rocky road to ruin so be prepared to move.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

oh, my sympathies, "been there, done it, got the tee shirt" as they say!

My advice???????? Well we ended up not paying the last months rent and moving out - in fact at that point, we moved back to the UK (long story lol)

However, what we tried to do (I'm not sure of the legalities) was to get some quotes to get the work done, sent them to the landlord (company) and asked for permission to go ahead.(Thats as far as we got!!)

I'm assuming these faults are breaching the terms of the contract (fit for purpose)?? You then need deduct the costs from the rent - do get his permission in writing tho!! and good luck!!!!

Jo xxxx


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## Trubrit (Nov 24, 2010)

The landlord has now stopped replying to any emails that I send.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Trubrit said:


> The landlord has now stopped replying to any emails that I send.


What does it say on your contract about repairs and services??? Altho as a rental roperty, it may not be a hotel, but it should be "fit for purpose"


Jo xxx


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## Trubrit (Nov 24, 2010)

Hi Jo, the contract is very basic, in fact it says very little, just the start date etc and the bank account details.


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## zenkarma (Feb 15, 2013)

Trubrit said:


> The landlord has now stopped replying to any emails that I send.


Perhaps the landlord will start replying to your emails once you stop paying the rent? In the meantime my advice would be to start looking for somewhere else.

It is not acceptable (in my opinion) for a landlord to shirk responsibility for basic maintenance of a property they are being paid rent for.

I would not pay anything to have these problems fixed because I know you'll have real problems getting the money refunded to you.

I'd start looking for somewhere else.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

I would still go down the Fit for purpose route (as long as your complaints are genuinely rendering your rental property unfit and not what you should expect). Get some sensible estimates in for the work, send them to the company, telling them that you're quite happy to deduct the amounts from your monthly rental, could he comfirm that this will be ok - and see what happens

Jo xxx


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

zenkarma said:


> Perhaps the landlord will start replying to your emails once you stop paying the rent? In the meantime my advice would be to start looking for somewhere else.
> 
> It is not acceptable (in my opinion) for a landlord to shirk responsibility for basic maintenance of a property they are being paid rent for.
> 
> ...


 and yes, you could also e-mail them saying that as the property isnt in a fit condition, then they are in breach and therefore you will be leaving without completing or paying for the remainder of the term - and have something else lined up PDQ

Jo xxx


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## CapnBilly (Jun 7, 2011)

This is what the law says about repairs (translated)

_Article 21 Preservation of housing

1. The landlord is obliged to perform, without the right to raise the rent therefore, all repairs necessary to keep the house in the living conditions to serve the agreed usage, unless the impairment for which compensation is concerned is attributable the tenant under the provisions of the 1,563 articles and 1564 of the Civil Code._

Articles 1563/1564 just say if you have caused the problems.

It seems to me the landlord is in breach of contract, and the things you mention are, IMHO, both health & Safety risks.

This is what the law says (translated )

_Article 27 Failure to comply

1. Failure by either party of its obligations under the contract shall entitle the party who has fulfilled his to enforce the obligation or promote the termination of the contract in accordance with the provisions of Article 1124 of the Civil Code .


2. Similarly, the tenant may terminate the contract for the following reasons:

a) The non-performance by the landlord of repairs referred to in Article 21._

This what article 24 says (translated)

_Article 1124

The power to settle the obligations is implied in reciprocal understanding, for if one does not fulfill the obligation incumbent upon it.

The injured party may choose between demanding the fulfillment or termination of the obligation, with the payment of damages and payment of interest in both cases. You can also order the resolution, even after opting for compliance, when it proves impossible.

The Court shall order the resolution that is claimed to have no justifiable reasons to indicate that the authorized term._

I would just write to him setting out the problem asking him to authorise the repairs and for you to deduct from the rent, using the above to support your case.


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## Calas felices (Nov 29, 2007)

It was good of CapnBilly to research the Law but do you really think that you are going to resolve your problems by going to a Spanish court and against a Spanish lawyer? Cut your losses, use up the deposit by not paying the last month's rent (or however much this comes to and move. It takes a brave person to challenge the Court system in Spain - but against a lawyer? Put it down to experience.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Calas felices said:


> It was good of CapnBilly to research the Law but do you really think that you are going to resolve your problems by going to a Spanish court and against a Spanish lawyer? Cut your losses, use up the deposit by not paying the last month's rent (or however much this comes to and move. It takes a brave person to challenge the Court system in Spain - but against a lawyer? Put it down to experience.


You have a point, a good one!! If nothing else, it's an uncomfortable way to live, when you don't get on with your landlord!

Jo xxx


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## CapnBilly (Jun 7, 2011)

Whilst I agree with the last comments about actually taking action, there is a big difference between doing that, and at least letting the landlord know, that you know you have rights.

As I understood the original post, Trubrit has only been in the property since August, so, I guess its an 11/12 month contract, so unless I have misunderstood, they cannot move and keep the last months rent until next summer. In addition, they cannot legally break the contract until February anyway (after giving 30 days notice, which they can do in January), and even then there may be a penalty. If its a longer term contract, then the penalty is a months rent for every year remaining. Less that a year its proportionate. However, it needs to be in the contract, which it doesn't sound like it is. 

So I can't see anything to lose by at least showing you know something of your rights. He may do something, he may not, but he's not doing anything now anyway.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

When we first came to Spain,we had problems with a rogue agent who we think may have been letting without the owner's knowledge.
We did as suggested: found somewhere else to live, lived out the 1800 euros deposit which we knew would never be returned and out of sheer spite and revenge used as much water and electricity as we could before moving out leaving no forwarding address. The bills were not in our name, I hasten to add. We gave literally hundreds of litres if not more of water to a friend who lived on the campo...he came with a trailer with many enormous barrels and filled them all.
I had absolutely no regrets about this as by then I had found out quite a lot about the activities of the unscrupulous and downright criminal agent, who is still advertising in the local press. I will supply details by pm.
Reading posts like this I realise how lucky we are to have an excellent landlord who allows us to do all repairs and deduct from the rent and with whom we have just signed a further three year contract at a rent 50% lower than when we first moved in five years ago.


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

CapnBilly said:


> Whilst I agree with the last comments about actually taking action, there is a big difference between doing that, and at least letting the landlord know, that you know you have rights.
> 
> As I understood the original post, Trubrit has only been in the property since August, so, I guess its an 11/12 month contract, so unless I have misunderstood, they cannot move and keep the last months rent until next summer. In addition, they cannot legally break the contract until February anyway (after giving 30 days notice, which they can do in January), and even then there may be a penalty. If its a longer term contract, then the penalty is a months rent for every year remaining. Less that a year its proportionate. However, it needs to be in the contract, which it doesn't sound like it is.
> 
> So I can't see anything to lose by at least showing you know something of your rights. He may do something, he may not, but he's not doing anything now anyway.



This is not correct (in my opinion from reading the recent changes to the law).

The law states that any rental contract can be terminated by either party giving one month's notice (subject to sufficient reason on the part of the landlord).

Even if you sign a 12 month agreement, there is no reason why you can not leave sooner than that if you wish with no penalty.


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## Trubrit (Nov 24, 2010)

Things are worse this morning as sewage is coming up in to the bath and it is already half full. I have tried using a plunger but it does nothing. I have just written very politely to the landlord again.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Trubrit said:


> Things are worse this morning as sewage is coming up in to the bath and it is already half full. I have tried using a plunger but it does nothing. I have just written very politely to the landlord again.


Is there the Spanish equivalent of the local authority health inspector? This property is surely unfit for habitation.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Get in touch with the ayuntamiento and ask them about a health inspector as mrypg9 suggested.
I think you need to get all hands on deck here. It really is a health hazard. Ask you're students for any useful contacts, or any other locals you know.
Dirty bathrooms call for dirty tactics
Film it and put it on the local web page, send it to the landlord.
Are any of his relatives around??


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Calas felices said:


> It was good of CapnBilly to research the Law but do you really think that you are going to resolve your problems by going to a Spanish court and against a Spanish lawyer? Cut your losses, use up the deposit by not paying the last month's rent (or however much this comes to and move. It takes a brave person to challenge the Court system in Spain - but against a lawyer? Put it down to experience.


The case of the Prestige oil spill has just come through the courts.
It happened 11 years ago!!


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

Trubrit said:


> Things are worse this morning as sewage is coming up in to the bath and it is already half full. I have tried using a plunger but it does nothing. I have just written very politely to the landlord again.


It's time to act and not send 'polite emails'!

Get the problem fixed and take the cost out of this month's rent.

(I am a landlord and would NOT find fault with this approach).


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## Calas felices (Nov 29, 2007)

It would appear you don't even have a legal contract. These are the latest rules:
Tenancy Amendments 4/2013 .:. Mallorca Mietbörse S.L.

Don't cause yourself anymore hassle ,ive out your deposit and go and look for somewhere better. There's a lot out there.


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## Trubrit (Nov 24, 2010)

Thanks everyone but I am concerned that he will give me notice to quit. He really is a nasty guy.


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## xgarb (May 6, 2011)

I think you need to start collecting evidence like film and photos of the muck and showing the part of the house where the power doesn't work.

Then either go get the contract checked with a decent lawyer and if it's invalid.. move and let the house fill up with muck.

Or, if you are feeling brave post it on the internet and send the landlord the link and mention you are going to put the address of the house and his name on the page and the whole world will know his house is inhabitable and worthless.


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## CapnBilly (Jun 7, 2011)

snikpoh said:


> This is not correct (in my opinion from reading the recent changes to the law).
> 
> The law states that any rental contract can be terminated by either party giving one month's notice (subject to sufficient reason on the part of the landlord).
> 
> Even if you sign a 12 month agreement, there is no reason why you can not leave sooner than that if you wish with no penalty.


Well, I think I said I assumed it was an 11/12 month contract. On that basis, unless I am reading a different law to you,it says the minimum period is 6 month, and then the lessor can give 30 days notice. For this contract, the landlord can only give notice for self (or close family) occupation.

I did say the penalty clauses (which are set out in the law) must be included in the contract, so if they are, then they are contractually liable.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Trubrit said:


> Thanks everyone but I am concerned that he will give me notice to quit. He really is a nasty guy.


Then be nasty!! Right is on your side. Fight back. Dunkirk spirit and all that!

When we had problems with that ***** of an agent five years ago, weak and feeble women as we are, up with unreasonable behaviour we did not put.
Remember, the law is on your side. I don't know about your area but round here good tenants -indeed tenants of any kind - are as scarce as hens' teeth.

Some of these grasping landlords need telling that this is a renters' market.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

mrypg9 said:


> Then be nasty!! Right is on your side. Fight back. Dunkirk spirit and all that!
> 
> When we had problems with that ***** of an agent five years ago, weak and feeble women as we are, up with unreasonable behaviour we did not put.
> Remember, the law is on your side. I don't know about your area but round here good tenants -indeed tenants of any kind - are as scarce as hens' teeth.
> ...


 While I agree with your approach and would also advise it.......... hhhmmmm, having been thru this, its actually easier and more peaceful to just cut and run. Find somewhere else, dont pay the last months rent, dont even clean the place! Just simply disappear and relax in a new home!!! 

Jo xxxx


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

jojo said:


> While I agree with your approach and would also advise it.......... hhhmmmm, having been thru this, its actually easier and more peaceful to just cut and run. Find somewhere else, dont pay the last months rent, dont even clean the place! Just simply disappear and relax in a new home!!!
> 
> Jo xxxx


Yes, I agree, he should go...but as you said, without cleaning and when he is ready and has found a better place to live. That could take a few months..


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## Trubrit (Nov 24, 2010)

It is now Wednesday and I first reported this sewer problem last Friday. The whole house stinks and I fear for the health of my family and my pets. I think that I will have to get the job done and take it out of next months rent although this is probably illegal, I just can't just sit around in case a plumber may decide to arrive.


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## GUAPACHICA (Jun 30, 2012)

Trubrit said:


> It is now Wednesday and I first reported this sewer problem last Friday. The whole house stinks and I fear for the health of my family and my pets. I think that I will have to get the job done and take it out of next months rent although this is probably illegal, I just can't just sit around in case a plumber may decide to arrive.


Hi - sorry to hear you're having such problems with your landlord! I'm very sympathetic because I, too, was suffering from both a rental agent and landlady who did nothing, for two years, to undertake several necessary repairs, of which they'd been advised, by myself, on a monthly basis...! Eventually, after having despaired of ever getting anything done, a good Spanish friend (a landlady in her own right) advised me to send the agent a 'Burofax' which is, in effect, a recorded fax requiring a signature from the recipient, via the Spanish Post Office! See the link, below, copied from 'Andalucia.com' :

*
"Burofax is just the Spanish equivalent of a UK registered letter, requiring a delivery signature by the addressee"

there are also "registered letters" here, but the difference is that firstly a burofax is delivered almost immediatly even if sent to the other end of the country, as it is sent to the nearest correos by a type of fax
secondly with a burofax you can have proof of the contents of the letter, not just that "a" letter was received, often people forget the importance of that when the send a registered letter, there is no proof of what was in that letter(it could have been a birthday card!!!).you need to specify that you want the certificate of the contents when you send the burofax.*

In my Burofax I listed, once again, all the repairs required and gave the agent one week in which to arrange for them to be all completed - failing which, I would find an appropriate professional, pay for the repairs myself and hand in the receipts to the agent along with the much reduced rent! 

I was advised by the local Post Office immediately the Burofax had been hand-delivered and signed for. I received no response from the agent, so went ahead and initiated the repairs, as stated! As my friend had told me, the agent and landlady would be 'crazy' to take me to court, given that they'd been advised of the need for those repairs, many times (in writing) and I had photographs and witnessess, if necessary, to support my case! In fact, the only response was the surprise on the face of the agent's receptionist when I turned up at his office with copies of all the receipts and a very small amount of rent, LOL! 

In your own case, the repairs are urgently required! I'd take photos, get a witness or two and send the Burofax ASAP! I would state in it that you'd advised the landlord (listing the dates and content) of the serious problems concerned, but that, given nothing's been done, you've no choice but to go ahead and get the work done - for the sake of your health and that of your family! (I would also send a copy of this fax to the relevant local Ayuntamiento dept). 

Following all of the above, I'd aim to move out, as soon as you can! I'm planning to do the same, as I'm well aware that I'd be faced with the very same hassles, should any further repairs be required in the flat which I rent! 

Good luck - within the law, if at all possible! BTW, the agent with whom I had to do battle is married to a lawyer - but the Burofax still came up trumps!

Saludos,
GC


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## Trubrit (Nov 24, 2010)

Just a quick update. My landlord still refuses to pay for the sewer problem. He says that we have misused the toilet by putting too much paper down !! We are just 2 people in a 5 bedroomed house, really? too much paper? It's just as well that all the bedrooms are not full. I have decided to pay this bill and look for another house, it's very sad because I love my home.
A big thank you to everyone who has given me advice, I really appreciate it.


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## el pescador (Mar 14, 2013)

Trubrit said:


> Just a quick update. My landlord still refuses to pay for the sewer problem. He says that we have misused the toilet by putting too much paper down !! We are just 2 people in a 5 bedroomed house, really? too much paper? It's just as well that all the bedrooms are not full. I have decided to pay this bill and look for another house, it's very sad because I love my home.
> A big thank you to everyone who has given me advice, I really appreciate it.


ask him for proof of that...whether it was they watching you whilst you pooped or they got someone in to inspect the drains.


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## Trubrit (Nov 24, 2010)

The landlord said that the contractor said that there was lots of kitchen roll blocking the pipes too. We never, ever put kitchen roll down the loo but my landlord has a plaster for every sore. We have only been in the house 11 weeks and it has been sheer hell trying to get things done. I have already paid for an electrician to correct faults he refuses to pay for and now the bleedin' sewer problem.


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## zenkarma (Feb 15, 2013)

Trubrit said:


> I have decided to pay this bill and look for another house, it's very sad because I love my home.


I think that's the best thing to do.

From what you've said about this landlord so far he really doesn't seem at all interested in the satisfaction of his tenants. Knowing this now, any future problems are likely to be equally tedious to resolve.

Sometimes you just have to chalk these types of problems down to experience and take steps to ensure they don't happen again in the future.

At the end of the day, using your feet to do the protesting is by far the best option. Walk away and find somewhere else and leave this Scrooge landlord to stew in his own juices.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

zenkarma said:


> I think that's the best thing to do.
> 
> From what you've said about this landlord so far he really doesn't seem at all interested in the satisfaction of his tenants. Knowing this now, any future problems are likely to be equally tedious to resolve.
> 
> ...


Or in his own sewage

Don't clean up before you leave. You could leave a piece of old fish tucked away somewhere to rot and perfume the place...that and the sewage smell will surely put off any prospective tenants. That should teach him a lesson.


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## GUAPACHICA (Jun 30, 2012)

Trubrit said:


> The landlord said that the contractor said that there was lots of kitchen roll blocking the pipes too. We never, ever put kitchen roll down the loo but my landlord has a plaster for every sore. We have only been in the house 11 weeks and it has been sheer hell trying to get things done. I have already paid for an electrician to correct faults he refuses to pay for and now the bleedin' sewer problem.


Hi again - if you do decide to pay for this work to be done, use a different contractor - I don't see why you should be required, by the landlord, to use his contractor! Personally, I would NOT pay for this sewage problem to be fixed - I'd do what others here have advised and find a new home (even a temporary one) ASAP, without paying another euro to benefit this  thief!

Saludos,
GC


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## Madliz (Feb 4, 2011)

This French guy had his €2000 deposit withheld by his landlord. It appears he is a little upset:


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## gus-lopez (Jan 4, 2010)

:rofl:


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