# South Africa Post FIFA 2010 World Cup: Pros and Cons



## vegasboy (Apr 28, 2010)

I really hope the world cup is a roaring success, after all, a lot of my taxes are invested in it.

It would be quite interesting to see what the future spin off, (pros and cons) are going to be.


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## zambezi.king (Oct 8, 2009)

They project that they will make R93 BILLION... not sure if that is profit or what??


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## jonathanb (Apr 26, 2008)

zambezi.king said:


> They project that they will make R93 BILLION... not sure if that is profit or what??


and who is going to make the R93 billion that FIFA and the corrupt individuals in the government are going to make. Us poor south africans. Dont know why anyone would ever want to come live in this terrible country


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## mman (Nov 15, 2009)

zambezi.king said:


> They project that they will make R93 BILLION... not sure if that is profit or what??


HUH WHAT?? Link Pls?


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## Daxk (Jan 20, 2008)

mman said:


> HUH WHAT?? Link Pls?


Sunday times online edition last Sunday.


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## Halo (May 8, 2008)

For our very own doubting Thomas
World Cup organisers get profit guarantee - Times LIVE


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## vegasboy (Apr 28, 2010)

BBC News - Footing South Africa's World Cup bill "When the costs of upgrading airports, inner city transport, telecoms infrastructure and the actual running of the show are counted, the total bill for the World Cup has risen more than tenfold, to almost $4bn."

"What then is left of the economic case for hosting the World Cup? Well, happiness could play a crucial part. This is not a flippant response. Indeed, economic research suggests that the hosts of major football tournaments experience a real rise in public contentment"


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## vegasboy (Apr 28, 2010)

Helen Zille: From SA Today: The "Thugocrats" that threaten our future:

".......The World Cup has given South Africans a great confidence-boost and a glimpse of what we, as a nation can be. But there is another South Africa just beyond the reach of the fanparks, fanjols and stadiums. It is a South Africa in the grip of feudal authoritarianism....."


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## Cnf (Mar 17, 2010)

Unfortunately is has been proven time and again that hosting a major sporting event netts the country very little financially .... if anything it costs the host country.


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## mman (Nov 15, 2009)

Front page in i think it was Daily Tribune shows Durban looking to bid for the 2020 olympics i think. Anyways what a joke!


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## vegasboy (Apr 28, 2010)

mman said:


> Front page in i think it was Daily Tribune shows Durban looking to bid for the 2020 olympics i think. Anyways what a joke!


 The upgraded roads are one positive that comes to mind. Also the new transport system they are implementing here in the Cape looks positive. So far, the soccer cup went off well. Come on guys, let's give them some credit:clap2:


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## Therooster (Jul 1, 2010)

Actually only 4 billion was spent on stadiums. And the gross majority of that 4 billion went to giving people jobs to build the stadiums to it's not like it went up in smoke. Furthermore the rest was spent on upgrading roads and public transport and much needed projects. The Durban beachfront renewal and JHb inner city renewal projects are something that might sting those of you who haven't been in the country for a while and were hoping for things to have gotten worse. 

One massive plus about the world cup is it exposes fear mongering alarmists, loonies like DakX who paint such an unfairly bleak picture of South Africa for what they really are.


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## Halo (May 8, 2008)

Therooster said:


> Actually only 4 billion was spent on stadiums. And the gross majority of that 4 billion went to giving people jobs to build the stadiums to it's not like it went up in smoke. Furthermore the rest was spent on upgrading roads and public transport and much needed projects. The Durban beachfront renewal and JHb inner city renewal projects are something that might sting those of you who haven't been in the country for a while and were hoping for things to have gotten worse.
> 
> One massive plus about the world cup is it exposes fear mongering alarmists, loonies like DakX who paint such an unfairly bleak picture of South Africa for what they really are.


Could you please supply links to that effect.


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## vegasboy (Apr 28, 2010)

http://www.sa2010.gov.za/en/node/2926

"The major contributions of the South African Government are to: 

• Stadium and precinct development: R9.8 billion
• Transport: R13.6 billion
• Broadcast and telecommunications: R300 million
• Event operations: R684 million 
• Safety and security: R1.3 billion 
• Event volunteer training: R25 million
• Ports of entry infrastructure: R3. 5 billion
• Immigration support: R630 million
• Communications, hosting, legacy and culture: R504 million"

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/13/world/africa/13stadium.html

“Those who’ll benefit from this are the wealthy that already have plenty in their hand,” he said, not in resentment so much as weariness. 

And indeed, with the stadium project came an infusion of money, catnip to the corrupt who congregate at the junction of money and power. 

“No point in trying to hide it, there was a total collapse of good governance, primarily around the World Cup,” said Lassy Chiwayo, Nelspruit’s mayor, who was installed as an emergency caretaker in late 2008 after his predecessor was removed. 

Independent investigators into the matter found that millions of dollars had been misspent on big contracts."


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## Therooster (Jul 1, 2010)

vegasboy said:


> http://www.sa2010.gov.za/en/node/2926
> 
> "The major contributions of the South African Government are to:
> 
> ...


And yet everything has run smoothly, we're guaranteed to make a huge profit and we've gone a long way to shrugging off doubts about our country. Viva Fifa ...viva !!


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## Halo (May 8, 2008)

Therooster said:


> And yet everything has run smoothly, we're guaranteed to make a huge profit and we've gone a long way to shrugging off doubts about our country. Viva Fifa ...viva !!


Take it on the chin son.....


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## Therooster (Jul 1, 2010)

Halo said:


> Take it on the chin son.....


Actually I had a brain fart and for a second thought the stadiums cost 4 billion DOLLARS. But of course that was the total world cup. I am pleasantly surprised to hear they only cost 9 billion RAND. 


What's that in real terms ? 9 billion/ 50 million people = R180 then divide it by 4 years = 45 rand per person per years. Or around R3.50 per month. So if we didn't have the world cup we could have bought everyone a packet of 2 minute noodles per month for 4 years !! Damn !!! That minimum of 40 billion rand profit and massive boost to tourism and international esteem doesn't seem so great now !! We could have had a packet of noodles a month each for 4 years instead !!

(sarcasm).


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## Halo (May 8, 2008)

Therooster said:


> Actually I had a brain fart and for a second thought the stadiums cost 4 billion DOLLARS. But of course that was the total world cup. I am pleasantly surprised to hear they only cost 9 billion RAND.
> 
> 
> What's that in real terms ? 9 billion/ 50 million people = R180 then divide it by 4 years = 45 rand per person per years. Or around R3.50 per month. So if we didn't have the world cup we could have bought everyone a packet of 2 minute noodles per month for 4 years !! Damn !!! That minimum of 40 billion rand profit and massive boost to tourism and international esteem doesn't seem so great now !! We could have had a packet of noodles a month each for 4 years instead !!
> ...


Just provide those links....... thats all I want.


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## Daxk (Jan 20, 2008)

Actually Rooster, your brain fart affected your maths.
4 billion US is not 9 billion Rands, there are all sorts of figures floating around, between 43 billion Rands and 63 Billion rands.
They needed 700,000 vistors each spending R30,000 over a perid of 18 days and that would give 21 billion Rands, Fifa are kickingback spmething but thats not the problem.

SA desparately needs Power generation as the collapse cost plenty, they tried to borrow money
to build more, could not get it, so tey are increasing electricity tarriffs, so less money all around.
The Stadia and the Gautrain took up the SS and Concrete allocations for Hospitals,schools and prisons, so thats on the back burner, so more criminals on the streets as they have nowhere to put them and R50 bail is the norm,more unemployed as SA lost 870,000 jobs last year according t the Prez, more illiterate kids as there aren't enough schools, etc..etc..

But you do have beautiful stadiums, now someone has to be paid to cut the grass and 144 Municipalities are bankrupt out of 239.
Then just to put the cherry on the cake, some of the Black owned mines aren't pumping the water out of them as they are bankrupt, so the water running over exposed rock is contamninated and toxic, it rises by a meter per day and is within a year of overspilling into the water table.
if that happens, goodbye Vaal dam and thats gautengs water supply.

its a FUBAR, to borrow an American phrase.


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## Therooster (Jul 1, 2010)

Daxk said:


> Actually Rooster, your brain fart affected your maths.
> 4 billion US is not 9 billion Rands, there are all sorts of figures floating around, between 43 billion Rands and 63 Billion rands.
> They needed 700,000 vistors each spending R30,000 over a perid of 18 days and that would give 21 billion Rands, Fifa are kickingback spmething but thats not the problem.
> 
> ...



Huh where did I say 4 billion dollars = 9 billion rands ? how the hell did you come to that conclusion ? Read my post again, I said I thought it was 4 billion dollars (28 billion rand ?) but I am glad to be corrected that it's only 9 billion rand on stadiums. 

Figures floating around ? Where Dakx ? Your head ? lol. 

And did you not get the memo ? We're guaranteed to make a profit. And that's in the short term ! that's not even counting the long term benefits to tourism and investment etc.

And again you seem quite out of touch. We did get the loan to build power stations. Just near my home they are currently trying to stop them building a new nuclear power plant (but that's a separate issue). And where is our power situation desperate ? I can't recall a load shedding issue since 2007. Move on old chap.

And no hospitals etc are not on the backburner. We increased spending on all of those the past 4 years. I can tell you my local government hospitals is 1000 times better today that 4 years ago. I have had an experience this past 2 weeks of amazement at the improvement. Let me know if you want me to go into details. 

More criminals in the street ? Is that why murder is down by 44% since 1994 ? why car theft is down 50 percent since 2005 ? I have the links for those stats if you're interested. Again, let me know.

And the jobs we lost...you know what most of those jobs were ? People working on building the freaking stadiums !! must I explain the irony of you using the loss of jobs the world cup caused to criticism it ? 

look I know you're butt hurt and would have loved this world cup and the country to be a terrible failure so you can validate to yourself why you left such a paradise. but get over it man. 3 years ago I was last on this forum and you were already flogging this dead horse then. I come back and you're still here doign the same little song and dance scaremongering negative routine. You must be the unhappiest most bitterly miserable homesick ex South African to ever exist to spend all your time like this trying to convince everyone else (but especially yourself I suggest) South Africa is a bad place to live. And you're still at it. Not quite convinced yet huh Dakx ? Don't hurry back yet. Give it another 30 or 40 years. After that if you're still not convinced you can come back I suppose, but don''t feel any pressure. We are quite happy here without you.

:eyebrows:


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## vegasboy (Apr 28, 2010)

Employment situation desperate - Mike Schussler - South Africa | Moneyweb

"Schussler said more South Africans received money from welfare than from employment with 12,8 million people working -- not all for money -- and 13,8 million people receiving welfare payments from the proceeds of five million taxpayers.

"I don't know of any other country in the world where the recipients of welfare are greater than the amount of people who work."

Schussler said that according to a recent joint report from the African Union and the United Nations, SA currently had the lowest adult employment ratio in Africa.

"This puts this country -- which is a relatively rich country -- to shame."


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## Halo (May 8, 2008)

Stop posting those facts I tell you.... Don't forget about the whites this and the whites that....

*A few things to remember wrt unemployment:*
_(before someone plays the race card I just want to concentrate on whites as our rooster friend seems to like to point that out)_

-	100's of thousands of whites have left leaving a skills gap that other skilled whites have filled
-	Wikipedia is not gospel
-	Many unemployed live with their parents and are not classified as such
-	Many have small businesses which fall under the radar.

BUT – As I have pointed out, as people migrate – Jobs become available…. It’s VERY seldom that a teller or a postman gets a skilled visa so using a little logic one can see why the numbers of white employed stays at a certain level. This is NOT rocket science.
More BUTs – The conditions of employment and worker right are almost non-existent compared to other 1st world countries and many cannot leave.

In closing 
Some people love it some hate it and some like myself and others just want a better/safer way of life for our families…. I want people to have ALL the facts so they can make an informed decision about something that will change their lives in so many ways and not be misled by the wilfully waffling unsubstantiated drivel some people posts. I like *facts*.


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## Halo (May 8, 2008)

Please refer to this document to better understand the statistics.
http://www.statssa.gov.za/publications/P0211/P02111stQuarter2010.pdf
(Search for the word white and the numbers will POP up 4.1% my arse)

PS And you still have to take SA Stats with a pinch of salt.

And "working age" starts at 15 - So how many whites etc are still studying so per/capita numbers are distorted. I won't teach you to suck eggs, we all have the time to come to the correct conclusions.


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## Therooster (Jul 1, 2010)

Halo said:


> Stop posting those facts I tell you.... Don't forget about the whites this and the whites that....
> 
> *A few things to remember wrt unemployment:*
> _(before someone plays the race card I just want to concentrate on whites as our rooster friend seems to like to point that out)_
> ...


Oh you got to love this guy. He loves facts !

Lol. The funny thing is mister "facts" doesn't have a single objective bone in his body. He doesn't like facts, he likes facts that meet his confirmation bias.

Let me demonstrate. The facts that support his claims about South Africa having one of the highest unemployment rates in Africa are sourced from one person. there's no objective quantifiable data for us to see, but he assures us this is a fact.

Then he goes on to post data that shows while last year the white unemployment rate from 15-65 was 4.6 last year it's post repression gone up to around 6.1%. Which given the state of the world is a pretty acceptably low unemployment rate given that people from 15-18 are included and a good proportion of white South Africans only start working after university/tech etc because mommy and daddy and generally rich enough to support them. So not liking this fact too much he goes on to say "but I would take S.A stats with a pinch of salt."

Funny thing is if there ever was a study done to find out who had the highest unemployment rates in Africa they'd come up with a big fat nothing. Most of Africa is simply not capable of even recording basic data about their populations. Take murder for example .

List of countries by intentional homicide rate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Look at the map on the right. See how much of Africa is in light gray ? Now look at the key. If that map is to be believe most of Africa has a murder rate less than Japan (less than 1 per 100 000) if their "data" (lack thereof) is to be believed. So in fact I would suggest anyone interested in "facts" would very much take such statements like "X country has the worse Y in Africa". Add in to that most of South America and South East Asia etc. 

Lastly regarding more people receiving welfare than working, I know many members of my staff receive welfare illegally despite working. The system is being milked for sure. But hey , it's all money coming back into the economy rather than sitting in government coffers so I throw a blind eye to it.


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## Halo (May 8, 2008)

Therooster said:


> Oh you got to love this guy. He loves facts !
> Lol. The funny thing is mister "facts" doesn't have a single objective bone in his body. He doesn't like facts, he likes facts that meet his confirmation bias.
> Let me demonstrate. The facts that support his claims about South Africa having one of the highest unemployment rates in Africa are sourced from one person.


I mad no such claim....



Therooster said:


> Then he goes on to post data that shows while last year the white unemployment rate from 15-65 was 4.6 last year it's post repression gone up to around 6.1%. Which given the state of the world is a pretty acceptably low unemployment rate given that people from 15-18 are included and a good proportion of white South Africans only start working after university/tech etc because mommy and daddy and generally rich enough to support them. So not liking this fact too much he goes on to say "but I would take S.A stats with a pinch of salt."
> 
> Funny thing is if there ever was a study done to find out who had the highest unemployment rates in Africa they'd come up with a big fat nothing. Most of Africa is simply not capable of even recording basic data about their populations. Take murder for example .
> 
> ...


*Let me address the rest of this quickly….*

Please leave Wikipedia alone…
Please don’t confuse (as you did above) my posts with others
You seem to have a problem with rich white people, get over it.
I’m unsure what the drivel in the middle is but stats need to be based on a per capita basis (its more complicated than that but its a good start)

Also, your understanding of basic economics is worrying; you would do well in government, perhaps the next minister of finance?


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## Therooster (Jul 1, 2010)

Halo said:


> I mad no such claim....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


And your status of "mister facts" takes another bruising ! Let's look at your 4 "points" in order.

1) The wikipedia numbers correlate exactly with the official murder rate.
2) strawman (ad hom) attack. you site no evidence to refute my claim.
3) The stats are per capita.
4) Again, strawman. 

:clap2:

lol


Sorry man, it wouldn't be so funny if you hadn't painted yourself as "mister facts."


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## Halo (May 8, 2008)

1) Go to nation master for those stats.
2) Don't need one - I never made the claim about employment in Africa
3) Refer to point No. 1
4) I think you miss one of the points somewhere as they don't tally

The last line was humour.


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## Therooster (Jul 1, 2010)

Halo said:


> 1) Go to nation master for those stats.
> 2) Don't need one - I never made the claim about employment in Africa
> 3) Refer to point No. 1
> 4) I think you miss one of the points somewhere as they don't tally
> ...


Nationmaster ??

Bwahahahahahahahahaha ! mister "facts" fails again. 

Nationmaster has data from 1998 as its source ! 

Ladies and gentlemen, you have just witnessed a perfect example of the "confirmation bias."

He finds nationmasters stat to be more valid, even though it's 12 years old ..why ? 

Because it matches his agenda ! It's the stat he wants to find. He's already made up his mind and not only considers stats that suit his agenda to be valid. This is a major fail in logic as to how the scientific objective method works. You're supposed to take the most recent, valid and complete data and fomr a conclusion from that. not form a conclusion and then cherry pick which data suits it the most and shrug off the rest. That's called "having a bias" or agenda. Which not to be hard on you, you clearly do have and no one should ever therefore take what you have to say about South Africa to be objective, fair or rational. 


Mister Facts ? 

Dude, you're making my day. You're like the dream person I want to argue with about South Africa. Because you claim it's getting worse here and you claim to stand by facts rather than sentiment. The fun part of me is that just about every available stat for south Africa shows the country getting better in just about every way, while the sentiment is the only thing that seems to claim it's getting worse. You're allowing me to demonstrate this with cutting precision.


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## Halo (May 8, 2008)

You are extremely aggressive but I it takes all types.. Please show me where I posted about unemployment rates in Africa... Thank you.

To your last point - I hope you are correct as I know many people there who live in fear about tomorrow and it would make me more than happy if you're right. The odds are against you.


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## Therooster (Jul 1, 2010)

Halo said:


> You are extremely aggressive but I it takes all types.. Please show me where I posted about unemployment rates in Africa... Thank you.
> 
> To your last point - I hope you are correct as I know many people there who live in fear about tomorrow and it would make me more than happy if you're right. The odds are against you.


You originally posted this as part of your quotes from that article. 



> Schussler said that according to a recent joint report from the African Union and the United Nations, SA currently had the lowest adult employment ratio in Africa.


To which I called bollocks because most African countries couldn't even tell you the first thing about their "stats." 

And I'm not being aggressive, I just think you are misguided in thinking your negative perceptions about South Africa are some kind of hard truth, when in fact all available evidence show that in fact the country is improving in almost every way. I know why you think like you do. the only news you get about South Africa in Australia is the only type of news people are interested in hearing..."the gory stuff."

You don't see all the improvements in infrastructure, meet the polite groups of mixed school kids, see the tangible improvements to the hospitals. You don't spend time here to live out a regular life like we all do devoid of any of the drama you're reading about that paints a buffoonish wild west type picture of the country. And I hope you're not offended but I suggest you also have prejudices against the current government that are in part formed through predictions and inherent beliefs you have about the abilities of black people. I understand why you would think that way. We ensured out fellow black country men were a very uneducated and dysfunctional lot. But I think it's fair to say they have exceeded all expectations and the country has boomed economically and reduced a whole host of social problems such as no housing, electricity and running water, no clinics or schools etc. Violent crime is also down nearly 50% . All signs for future growth and improvement are extremely positive.There is no better time to be a South African that today.


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## JairajVi (Jun 14, 2010)

Therooster said:


> You originally posted this as part of your quotes from that article.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Well said there Rooster...the wording couldn't have come out better....:clap2: I will back you up anytime with this...

I really don't know why people actually post such crap on this forum...facts are facts and opinions (personal), well are opinions...and u can never mix the two of them up...that's when agression takes over.

Why do people make SA seem as if it is unbearable to live in...??? I currently have family there and they don't live in fear, but merely enjoy SA as their home. I've lived there all my life...not in fear...but was always wary of the happenings surrounding us all. I guess that is in any country...where are u safe in this world...???

Anyways...this post was supposed to be about the World Cup pro's and con's....how the hell did it end up with this...

Anyways

Peace out....!!!


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## zambezi.king (Oct 8, 2009)

Therooster said:


> You originally posted this as part of your quotes from that article.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This what I hate... as soon as someone has anything negative to say the nall of a sudden they are racists or have negative black/white issues. Rubbish.
You say they have reduced a whole host of social problems... 
HOUSING: very badly buile RDP houses that have no proper infrastructure surrounding them.

ELECTRICITY: A cock-up that would have any self respecting CEO blowing his brains out. They knew 6-7 years ago about the problem and did nothing and now the country, people and economy suffers.

WATER: My goodness if you know nothing else but actually get me to agree with you about anything IT WILL NEVER BE THAT THE WATER SITUATION HAS IMPROVED. i AM AN ENVIRONMENTAL SCIENTIST AND DO MANY EIA's AND HABITAT SURVEYS... IT IS A TIME BOMB THAT WILL MAKE THE ELECTRICITY DEBACLE LOOK LIKE CHRISTMAS!

Lastly, many many of the clinics and schools that are built are done so by companies and NGO's, this is called offsetting and usually happens so that a company is awarded a contract, a type of "you scratch my back..." deal. And our existing state hospitals would be a joke if it was not so embarrasing and deadly.

As for the crime even if I conceded, which I'm not, that it is coming down I would say it is due to creative accounting of the reported / unreported figures. Plus how can we say that they are coming down when the OFFICIAL version was not released. Also many victims are actively discouraged from reporting cases or the dockets are misplaced. Categories are chopped and changed so as to "massage" the figures, this is not scaremongering but fact.


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## Therooster (Jul 1, 2010)

zambezi.king said:


> This what I hate... as soon as someone has anything negative to say the nall of a sudden they are racists or have negative black/white issues. Rubbish.
> You say they have reduced a whole host of social problems...
> HOUSING: very badly buile RDP houses that have no proper infrastructure surrounding them.


Some are badly build, most are adequate. A roof over a persons head with electricity may not seem like a big deal to use, but it's not all about us now is it ? And most do have proper infrastructure. Sewage , running water, electricity, garbage disposal, street lights etc etc.



> *ELECTRICITY: A cock-up that would have any self respecting CEO blowing his brains out. They knew 6-7 years ago about the problem and did nothing and now the country, people and economy suffers.
> 
> *


In 1994 30% of people have electricity. Now 80% do. How is that a cock up ? If you ask me that's freaking brilliant !



> WATER: My goodness if you know nothing else but actually get me to agree with you about anything IT WILL NEVER BE THAT THE WATER SITUATION HAS IMPROVED. i AM AN ENVIRONMENTAL SCIENTIST AND DO MANY EIA's AND HABITAT SURVEYS... IT IS A TIME BOMB THAT WILL MAKE THE ELECTRICITY DEBACLE LOOK LIKE CHRISTMAS!


Ok , because your comment was oh so objective. Again way more people on the grid ..overall..great job ! You can still drink water from almost any tap in the country.



> Lastly, many many of the clinics and schools that are built are done so by companies and NGO's, this is called offsetting and usually happens so that a company is awarded a contract, a type of "you scratch my back..." deal. And our existing state hospitals would be a joke if it was not so embarrasing and deadly.


I spent the last week visiting a sick relative at a state hospital. Compared to a previous experience 5 years ago the improvements are amazing. Clean, good dedicated nursing, dedicated doctors. Excellent improvement. As good as I have seen in other departments such as home affairs for example.



> As for the crime even if I conceded, which I'm not, that it is coming down I would say it is due to creative accounting of the reported / unreported figures. Plus how can we say that they are coming down when the OFFICIAL version was not released. Also many victims are actively discouraged from reporting cases or the dockets are misplaced. Categories are chopped and changed so as to "massage" the figures, this is not scaremongering but fac


Nice. When the stats say crime is going up you would be all over it. When they say it's comign down your confirmation bias comes into play and suddenly they're invalid. Very convenient.


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## mman (Nov 15, 2009)

zambezi.king said:


> WATER: My goodness if you know nothing else but actually get me to agree with you about anything IT WILL NEVER BE THAT THE WATER SITUATION HAS IMPROVED. i AM AN ENVIRONMENTAL SCIENTIST AND DO MANY EIA's AND HABITAT SURVEYS... IT IS A TIME BOMB THAT WILL MAKE THE ELECTRICITY DEBACLE LOOK LIKE CHRISTMAS!
> .


Hmmm you seem to be alot of things, water environmental scientist, polyprop salesman??


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## zambezi.king (Oct 8, 2009)

mman said:


> Hmmm you seem to be alot of things, water environmental scientist, polyprop salesman??


Yeah, I'm not 12 and have a little experience... the polyprop was in the early/mid 90's. What have you done with your life??


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## zambezi.king (Oct 8, 2009)

Therooster said:


> Some are badly build, most are adequate. A roof over a persons head with electricity may not seem like a big deal to use, but it's not all about us now is it ? And most do have proper infrastructure. Sewage , running water, electricity, garbage disposal, street lights etc etc.
> 
> Great standard to maintain... "most are adequate" as for the sewage they have it is so badly planned that it has left most of our rivers and dams so badly polluted that we have to heavily treat every litre before drinking it. These urban systems were only deisgned for about 10 people per acre but with the cluster/townhouse and RDP explosion they cannot cope. This means that they simply divert direct to the waterways or scoop the solids out and stockpile it next to the tanks until it can be dumped.
> 
> ...


Same game your playing. Actually the stink was raised by local opposition parties and investigative journolists. The categories were fiddled with to show (or not because they were never officially released) a drop in the "headline" crimes i.e. murder, rape, home/business invasion, violent crimes etc.


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## Halo (May 8, 2008)

Therooster said:


> You originally posted this as part of your quotes from that article.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Apology accepted.... Please remember that next time you accuse someone of saying/posting something they didn't. 

I'm ecstatic that the signs are good but while:
The (violent) crime rate is off the charts compared to where I live
The education system is blighted for my kids
A good "free" (yes nothing is free but) health system is missing
The farmers are being killed
The land being taken and run into the ground
I can’t walk around freely in the city day or night
I have to equate burglary with possible murder.
There are no more power station (worked for them for years and I know the score)
The ANC are in power

There is no way South Africa would see me again.


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## Therooster (Jul 1, 2010)

Halo said:


> Apology accepted.... Please remember that next time you accuse someone of saying/posting something they didn't.
> 
> I'm ecstatic that the signs are good but while:
> The (violent) crime rate is off the charts compared to where I live
> ...


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## vegasboy (Apr 28, 2010)

Therooster said:


> Halo said:
> 
> 
> > Apology accepted.... Please remember that next time you accuse someone of saying/posting something they didn't.
> ...


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## Halo (May 8, 2008)

I won't give you 3000 of anything but they way people are killed in South Africa is NOTHING like anyone experiences in the UK/USA/OZ etc. The torture and humiliation and desecration of human life is second to non.

Nice link you sent. One for the fact file. 

Q: How long does it take to build a nuke... & Please provide details of the new one. Thanks

*From the Eskom website...*. http://www.eskom.co.za/live/content.php?Item_ID=5608
Eskom currently finds itself in a position where the demand for electricity may exceed the available supply from time to time. In order to manage the situation in the best possible way, planned supply interruptions may have to be carried out. Customers who receive their electricity directly from Eskom will find information of possible outages on this website. Those who are supplied by their local municipalities, however, will have to obtain load shedding information from the municipal electricity departments.

PS Ease up on the NAT's, I'm not even a South African, I just had the misfortune of living there for a while.... You have some serious white guilt or black hate on your hands love.
PPS Just because something has not happened to you (cough cough) or because you state something does not make it so.


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## Therooster (Jul 1, 2010)

vegasboy said:


> Therooster said:
> 
> 
> > I’m just going to deal with one of your courageous statements you present as fact on this forum: Health care is NOT free! Seeing that this thread is about South Africa Post the Soccer World Cup, I will respond to this statement on the thread dealing with our Natioal Health Care System. See you there.
> ...


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## Therooster (Jul 1, 2010)

Halo said:


> I won't give you 3000 of anything but they way people are killed in South Africa is NOTHING like anyone experiences in the UK/USA/OZ etc. The torture and humiliation and desecration of human life is second to non.
> 
> Nice link you sent. One for the fact file.
> 
> ...




For someone who is not a South African you sure spend a lot of your time giving one sided neo-prejudiced opinions about the place. I understand that of South Africans who experienced the brain washing of the army etc. But what's your excuse ? That reeks of a huge emotional invetment to the place. Or pray tell what is your agenda being so negatively vocal here ? Even if South Africa was some kind of hell hole like you're claiming, what motivates here to come back and sing that old yarn ? You think people aren't already over- aware South Africa has problems ? Why jump on the bandwagon ? What are you achieving by heping over state the hype about the countries issues ?

And the fact that sometime in the near future the country might have to have "possible power outages from time to time." is hardly a case of the sky falling now is it ? Any country that puts an extra 50% of it's people on the grid in 16 years is going to experience growing pains.


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## Halo (May 8, 2008)

Can you please just answer the question, thank you.


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## Therooster (Jul 1, 2010)

Halo said:


> Can you please just answer the question, thank you.


What question ? I'm serious. What specific question should I answer.

Answer mine too please (What's your agenda to come here and talk down the country to such an extreme. Did you have something bad happen to you here ? I'm asking because it will enlighten other people to realise that perhaps you have a distorted emotionally compromised position regarding south africa and should be taken with a pinch of salt.)


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## Halo (May 8, 2008)

Therooster said:


> What question ? I'm serious. What specific question should I answer.
> 
> Answer mine too please (What's your agenda to come here and talk down the country to such an extreme. Did you have something bad happen to you here ? I'm asking because it will enlighten other people to realise that perhaps you have a distorted emotionally compromised position regarding south africa and should be taken with a pinch of salt.)


The one on the power station.


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## Therooster (Jul 1, 2010)

Another pro. It has gone into profit just from the tourists DURING the world cup!!!!


WooooHooooooo !


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## zambezi.king (Oct 8, 2009)

It has finally hit me... Rooster you are one of those that refuse to listen to any sort of reason that does not fit your point of view or does not promote your blogspot. What a tool!

You promote yourself as willing to concede the place is not utopia but any thing that detracts from your version of the truth is attacked visciously as a lie.

If you seriously believe that this place is has no crime problem unless you are poor, then you are at odds with so many including many you uphold as pillars of the country.

If you believe that the power and water issues are merely collateral damage in order that everyone can turn on the tap or flip the switch then all I can say is you are willing to sacrifice standards and long term stability for short term headlines.

By pandering to the populace the government has put long term stability and growth in jeopardy in favour of winning the next election. Just because you shout louder and longer than anyone else does not mena that you are right. Where others see a criminal under every bush you see a racist hasbeen of some bygone era. Where were you during the bad old days? I bet you have some great stories of your lone endevours to rid the world of the racist, capitalist pigs? Or maybe you also, along with 99.99999% of the population just got on with your life?

If you really think that things are just peachy then good luck to you, I'd rather b*tch and moan until we have a government and a society that we can actually be proud of instead of some false pie-in-the-sky rainbow nation.

Flame away, flame away!


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## Therooster (Jul 1, 2010)

zambezi.king said:


> It has finally hit me... Rooster you are one of those that refuse to listen to any sort of reason that does not fit your point of view or does not promote your blogspot. What a tool!
> 
> You promote yourself as willing to concede the place is not utopia but any thing that detracts from your version of the truth is attacked visciously as a lie.
> 
> ...


No need. Just stop the scaremongering that South Africa is such a terrible place and we have no gripes. South Africa is a good country to live in for middle classed people. Great actually. No drama there to report.


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## Halo (May 8, 2008)

*Rooster : I am still waiting for my reply - You seem to be short on those.... Cough Cough, please tell me about this new Nuke being built and when it is scheduled to be completed.*

PS SA is still a good place to live (compared to x) BUT there are much better/safer places to live hence why I would NEVER recommend moving from say the UK with a young family - its plain stupidity.


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## marieannetta (Mar 22, 2010)

This was quite an informative link
Tourism Industry Positive about the Impact of the World Cup on Future Tourism Growth for Cape Town - Press Release


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## Daxk (Jan 20, 2008)

Marienetta,I'm in SA at the moment and I think the WC costs are going to sink the place.
everyone here is as upbeat as usual, but tlking to the man in the street here, there is a great deal of dissatisfacyion about service delivery, about poverty alleviation and the people are getting restless about the 8 million spent on tickets here, and the 26 million spent on souveniers there etc...
Its been a financial failure and unless they can get an ADDITIONAL 700,000 tourists each spending about R30k in SA within 18 months, then the man on the street and the few taxpayers there are are going to feel some serious pain.r


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## Halo (May 8, 2008)

A decent read

BBC - Andrew Harding on Africa: Post-World Cup reality


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