# General Strike Impact



## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Around here absolutely zero impact. Shops open, some buses running.

I found this comment on a Guardian blog, it's from a Spanish woman. I rather liked it...

* According to electricity consumption levels here in Spain, it seems the strike will be a limited success confined to what´s left of the industrial sector and the transport sector.
The Trade Unions here are still anchored in a rhetoric of a bygone time with plenty of red flag waving and throaty male discourses clamouring for jobs for the workers. But where are the jobs going to come from?
Iberia is shedding nearly 5,000 workers in a large part due to unrealistic trade union demands and actions that have kept wages unrealistically high (a flight attendant earns up to 64,000 Euros and pilots around 200,000 Euros) for far too long.
Not surprisingly the low cost airlines have taken them to the cleaners, exactly as foreign producers in Asia and now South America are doing with other sectors of European industry.
While there is indeed scope to decide how the deficit problem is solved between tax increases for the wealthier echelons or public spending cuts to health and education and some serious criminal charges that need to be brought against the banking sector, nobody in Spain, today, is discussing the real issues of a loss of sovereignty to Brussels and Germany and how on earth Spain is going to re-employ the millions of workers who until recently were finishing off empty airports, unviable conference centres and the million unsold properties around the country*


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## goingtobcn (Sep 9, 2012)

I came on here to post about the strike too... interesting comment from the Guardian blog.

On our main street all of the shops are closed. My bank was open, and I thought one chain supermarket was, but it had its shutters closed on my way back. This could be due to the protestors blocking the street, tipping rubbish bins over etc. They were peaceful enough, but I found the hoods and masks quite disconcerting and didn't hang around. Metro running a limited service, and I know there's a big protest planned sometime around now at Plaça de Catalunya.

Interesting to hear from people in different parts of Spain.


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## Guest (Nov 14, 2012)

In my village the post office was shut - no surprise there, as nice as they are over the counter they will not go to work on the flimsiest of excuses. A notice went up today saying that in future they will be permanently closed from 10 until 11am. Considering that they don't open until 9am and shut at 2pm it seems like a good job to have. And no, they aren't 'in the back' doing clerical stuff as I see them all leaving at 2pm - 1pm on Saturdays. The banks were open, the buses were running but funnily enough most of the shops had their front doors open for trade - but all the window blinds and shutters were down. There was a Guardia Civil car and two officers in the main street which is unusual as they rarely visit here. No trouble though.


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## Madliz (Feb 4, 2011)

Halfway to Correos with a parcel this morning I thought, 'Oh no, they'll be on strike' but they were not. I noticed one shop closed but all others open, including the local supermarket. This is a pueblo in the Sierra de Madrid.


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## country boy (Mar 10, 2010)

Everything was normal here today including the Banks and Post office open. Buses and trains running " Minimum Service" . All supermarkets open with the exception of Dia and Coviran for some reason. ( They are both franchises in our town).
Thought Mary's extract from the Guardian was spot-on. What a shambles!


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## jimenato (Nov 21, 2009)

We went down to the local (un)employment office (very helpful people - don't believe all you hear about funcionarios) and they were working but said their lock had been superglued overnight. 

Walking back up through the village the owner of the Chinese Bazaar was also trying to break into his own building to open up.

It all helps the situation I suppose...


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

jimenato said:


> We went down to the local (un)employment office (very helpful people - don't believe all you hear about funcionarios) and they were working but said their lock had been superglued overnight.
> 
> Walking back up through the village the owner of the Chinese Bazaar was also trying to break into his own building to open up.
> 
> It all helps the situation I suppose...


I think you all know I am a life-long trades union activist. I support the right to strike.

I do not support the right to interfere with the rights of those who wish to work whether by thuggish intimidatory behaviour or by the actions you describe.

The people who do these kinds of things are usually the hard-core anarchists, Trots and other revolutionaries who resort to what thry call 'direct action' because they know they lack support from the workers they profess to champion.


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

Are Iberia's salaries kept "artificially high" by the trade unions, or are these wages in an international industry simply in line with the market? The figures quoted mean nothing unless compared with BA or Lufthansa data.

It has been well recognised that in almost all sectors Spain's wages are significantly below the levels in other EU countries where living costs are comparable.

I cannot see anything wrong with any initiatives which attempt to redress the balance, be it by trade unions or anyone else.... in fact, if I was being paid close to the UK / Germany rate for my job, I probably wouldn't have to leave Spain. Instead I am seeing that my already comparatively low wage is being frozen instead of rising to close the gap (of course I know that this is due the "crisis" as is everything that happens these days).

If an article I read was correct, 1 million people left Spain last year, in 2012 it will be more, and in 2013 I will be amongst them.

The only people of working age left in Spain if they continue as they are will be those with no other option. Perhaps that what the govt wants, but it's an odd concept to me.

So the Guardian, in its wisdom thinks that Spain should return to its 1980s - 1990s situation of rapidly rising living costs and below par salaries. Well it seems that they'll get their wish. But I, along with literally millions of others won't be forming part of that "dream".


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Overandout said:


> Are Iberia's salaries kept "artificially high" by the trade unions, or are these wages in an international industry simply in line with the market? The figures quoted mean nothing unless compared with BA or Lufthansa data.
> 
> It has been well recognised that in almost all sectors Spain's wages are significantly below the levels in other EU countries where living costs are comparable.
> 
> ...




That's your choice. Yo are lucky to have one, millions don't.

An important fact to bear in mind is that compared to Germany Spanish wages rose three times as fast in the early 2000s and productivity significantly decreased.


You say rightly that it is market factors which determine wages and salaries. The market has chosen to increase the turnover and profitability of the low-cost no-frills airlines at the expense of the high cost high price 'regular' carriers. That is a fact.
If you can't compete, you die.
Of course people should have decent living standards and a decent social wage. But all this has to be paid for. It doesn't just happen. Government spending is financed by two main sources: taxation of businesses, individuals and sales transactions of various kinds or borrowing. If business isn't profitable and individuals aren't working the tax take is down. If the markets don't like a government's policies yields rise to unsustainable levels.
Spain like other EU states took advantage of the Single European Act and the subsequent adoption of the euro to indulge in an orgy of corporate and private borrowing.
Now the boom has turned to bust, a pattern endemic to capitalism, and for all the handwringing I have yet to discover from any party whether left or right a viable solution.
Anmd that it is the gist of what the Spanish woman -not the Guardian, please read carefully- was saying in her piece on the Guardian blog.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Overandout said:


> If an article I read was correct, 1 million people left Spain last year, in 2012 it will be more, and in 2013 I will be amongst them.


If that was the article that said over a million (or 40%) of British expats were leaving - it was complete and utter crap based on a rigged survey to justify the sales pitch of a financial company that was offering to transfer funds. Only 200 people were asked and of those who responded (less than 40) 40% (i.e. 16 or less) said they were "thinking of going home". This was irresponsibly taken up at face value by some UK National dailies and blown up out of all proportion.

True, a fair number of expats have "gone home" or elsewhaere but in many cases, they were people who should never have come here in the first place - they did no planning or research into where they were going, they had no job, no income, no savings, no hope! so really they were no great loss.

Thousands of Spaniards leave (temporarily) every year to go to work in the harvests and other seasonal agricutural work of other EU countries, just as there is usually a great influx here when it gets around to the olive season, that has gone on for years.


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## 90199 (Mar 21, 2010)

Many have departed from here, we believe 20 to 25%. They have gone to find employment elsewhere, or departed when the tremors where occurring, however unemployment on this island is forecast to rise to 40%, so no doubt more will leave.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

What general strike? Everything here worked as normal including the health centre, schools, Ayuntamiento, etc


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

baldilocks said:


> What general strike? Everything here worked as normal including the health centre, schools, Ayuntamiento, etc


our health centre was closed

the schools were 'open', but there weren't going to be many teachers so the majority of kids weren't going in - & that became moot anyway when the police ordered them closed because of the flood alert

couldn't say about anything else though.....


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## fergie (Oct 4, 2010)

We have had Pharmacy strike here in Valencia region since the 5th of November,
Pharmacy's open on a rota once or twice a week. The pharmacy I like to use was only open today, closed tomorrow, and half day Saturday.
I stood in a long queue today, to be served, along with many others, no one complained, as probably like me they sympathise with the strike, The local Valencian gov. is not paying them for prescription medications. They cannot work for nothing, they have to earn a wage and many have families to support.


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## fergie (Oct 4, 2010)

xabiachica said:


> our health centre was closed
> 
> the schools were 'open', but there weren't going to be many teachers so the majority of kids weren't going in - & that became moot anyway when the police ordered them closed because of the flood alert
> 
> couldn't say about anything else though.....


I wonder why the Health centre was closed, do you think they had a problem due to the rain we have had? or going in sympathy with the pharmacists?
I stopped at our Vet. Rosa on the way back from town today, they were closed at quarter to one, not like her! mind you the Vets use the local pharmacies for medications as well, but at least the pharmacists get the full cost of Vet meds. from the client.
I did not think the market would have risked opening today, but as it was just overcast and not raining, i trotted uphill toward the market with the dog, and bloomin heck! the market was just packing up, I should have gone earlier.

BTW, have you noticed I am an official Javea person now, I figured out how to change my location, as I've only been over to HK twice this year.:clap2:


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

fergie said:


> I wonder why the Health centre was closed, do you think they had a problem due to the rain we have had? or going in sympathy with the pharmacists?
> I stopped at our Vet. Rosa on the way back from town today, they were closed at quarter to one, not like her! mind you the Vets use the local pharmacies for medications as well, but at least the pharmacists get the full cost of Vet meds. from the client.
> I did not think the market would have risked opening today, but as it was just overcast and not raining, i trotted uphill toward the market with the dog, and bloomin heck! the market was just packing up, I should have gone earlier.
> 
> BTW, have you noticed I am an official Javea person now, I figured out how to change my location, as I've only been over to HK twice this year.:clap2:


vet Rosa was closed yesterday apparently - I'm told because someone had broken a window or something & they were replacing it yesterday - no idea why it would be shut early today - although they do usually close at 1pm??

they were open in all that rain on Tuesday, she 'emasculated' my two not-quite-boy-now kittens Tuesday evening!!


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

baldilocks said:


> If that was the article that said over a million (or 40%) of British expats were leaving - it was complete and utter crap based on a rigged survey to justify the sales pitch of a financial company that was offering to transfer funds. Only 200 people were asked and of those who responded (less than 40) 40% (i.e. 16 or less) said they were "thinking of going home". This was irresponsibly taken up at face value by some UK National dailies and blown up out of all proportion.
> 
> True, a fair number of expats have "gone home" or elsewhaere but in many cases, they were people who should never have come here in the first place - they did no planning or research into where they were going, they had no job, no income, no savings, no hope! so really they were no great loss.
> 
> Thousands of Spaniards leave (temporarily) every year to go to work in the harvests and other seasonal agricutural work of other EU countries, just as there is usually a great influx here when it gets around to the olive season, that has gone on for years.


No, it wasn't an article specifically about returning "expats" (I suspect from your rather harsh criticism of this group that you are referring to UK or perhaps German nationals who came to Spain seeking cheap Sangría and sun all year long). It did speak of immigrants from Latin America and Eastern Europe who are now finding that the demand for workers and living standards are now better for them in their own coutries.

It also spoke of Spanish workers who have no choice but to move, long term, to countries such as Germany and Norway for work. This is not the same as those harvesters who make the trip on an annual and planned basis.

I have made a good home for myself and my family in Spain over the last 9 years, and I suspect that I am not alone in plan to leave to where I will not see my childrens' schools close their libraries, where my wages will not be frozen whilst inflation tends to rise, where there is not a threat of redundnacy month to month.

I am not pointing fingers here, I do not have the solution either. I understand perfectly the reason for the situation we are all in, but blaming the individual is not, in most cases, appropriate.

The strike (which I could not support, but my children were not able to go to school) is justified. The government, whilst democratically chosen, has an obligation to do what is best for the population (not just the ones that elected them), and I question the policies that lead to this progressive reduction of the population eligible to work. In my opinion growth and recovery cannot be succesful without a labour base.

That is all.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Overandout said:


> No, it wasn't an article specifically about returning "expats" (I suspect from your rather harsh criticism of this group that you are referring to UK or perhaps German nationals who came to Spain seeking cheap Sangría and sun all year long). It did speak of immigrants from Latin America and Eastern Europe who are now finding that the demand for workers and living standards are now better for them in their own coutries.
> 
> It also spoke of Spanish workers who have no choice but to move, long term, to countries such as Germany and Norway for work. This is not the same as those harvesters who make the trip on an annual and planned basis.
> 
> ...


Everything you say is true. People have the right to withdraw their labour although noone has the right to coerce or in any way intimidate any one else into withdrawing their labour and it seems a lot of that goes on here.

The strike has harmed the economy and benefited noone. Co-ordinated protests across the country with perhaps an hour's token stoppage would have been more effective and less harmful and inconvenient to millions of citizens.

I too question the policies you cite questioning and answering those questions are entirely different actions and I repeat ...there has as yet been no feasible alternative from those protesting.

Back to the perceptive Spanish woman in the Guardian.....


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Overandout said:


> I have made a good home for myself and my family in Spain over the last 9 years, and I suspect that I am not alone in plan to leave to where I will not see my childrens' schools close their libraries, where my wages will not be frozen whilst inflation tends to rise, where there is not a threat of redundnacy month to month.
> 
> I am not pointing fingers here, I do not have the solution either. I understand perfectly the reason for the situation we are all in, but blaming the individual is not, in most cases, appropriate.
> 
> ...



So in view of what you say, I presume you are not considering relocating to the UK, where this pathetic excuse for a Government has cut public spending to the point where not only school libraries but schools themselves are being forced to close to make way for Michael Gove's 'free schools' which is of course a facade for those who aspire to a private education but can't afford to pay for it.

It seems that the UK is experiencing a return of 'stag-flation' and the very flexible labour laws are creating job insecurity unrivalled in most European countries. Public sector wages have been frozen and the vast majority of workers in the private sector will see no increae in real wages for the foreseeable future.

As for blaming individuals...well, no-one is pointing a finger at Alberto Ruiz or Nellie Postlethwaite. 
But it is undeniable that higher living standards have to be earned and the harsh truth is that the explosive rise in material living standards and wages over the past thirty years has been based almost entirely on credit and while the good times were rolling we all went along with it. We re-elected governments who enabled a steady flow of cheap and easy credit and most of us took advantage of it. Public service quality declined over this period partly because we reelected governments that cut taxes.

Sometimes collective guilt is appropriate!


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## thrax (Nov 13, 2008)

Everywhere I went yesterday was open and everything seemed completely normal, well as normal as it can be for Spain!! All the main shopping centres were open but I didn't check our clinic or post offices. But I was able to buy brandy. If anyone had super-glued the brandy to the shelves then I might have noticed something but luckily nobody had...


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