# Renting in Paris for expats



## DC12345

Hi. What are some websites/companies for finding furnished rentals in Paris catering to expats? I know the French ones (SeLoger, Leboncoin, Bien'ici PAP,etc) but I heard that French landlords don't like to rent to expats... Of course there are Airbnb and VRBO but looking for other options and ones where we don't have to pay all the platform fees. Thank you.


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## BackinFrance

Sabattical Homes might be a possibility. I know other expats have rented through them.


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## bhamham

Yes, Sabbatical Homes is a good one to try. We rented an apt in Oberkampf through them for a year. No fees and dealt directly with the owner. We also rented with Paristay. I'm not sure I'd recommend them. We arranged the rental while we were in the US and the photos were really slick but nothing like reality as furniture was tatty and well worn. Plus their fees are quite high. It's definitely a plus if you're in Paris and can view the apt before renting.


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## GraceS

Other possibilities, specialized in furnished Paris apartments:

www.parisattitude.com
www.parisrental.com
www.lodgis.com

I've used the first one three times. Staff speaks English and the contract is in French and English.


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## DC12345

So helpful. Thank you everyone!


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## BackinFrance

Let us know how you get on - I'm sure ot would appreciate the feedback.


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## saffron_gin

Lodgis refused to work with me as a LSV- Tourist...just so you know...(if you fall in that category)...


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## DC12345

IlaKain said:


> Lodgis refused to work with me as a LSV- Tourist...just so you know...(if you fall in that category)...


Wow....we have a Long Stay Visa - Visiteur....so I think similar. Why would they refuse that segment?


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## BackinFrance

DC12345 said:


> Wow....we have a Long Stay Visa - Visiteur....so I think similar. Why would they refuse that segment?


Depends which accommodation you are looking at, because they do standard leases as well and also some accommodation would attract tourist tax. However your visa seems to be something else.


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## Bevdeforges

Not sure what you mean by a LSV - tourist. But just be aware that furnished residential property falls into a different category regulation wise than does standard unfurnished residential property when it comes to rental terms and conditions. We have had problems in the past with expats renting "holiday rentals" who then discovered clauses in the lease stating that the property could NOT be used as a "primary residence" or something to that effect - which, if you're staying for the long term in France could become a real problem.


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## saffron_gin

Bevdeforges said:


> Not sure what you mean by a LSV - tourist.


Long stay visa- tourist...



DC12345 said:


> Wow....we have a Long Stay Visa - Visiteur....so I think similar. Why would they refuse that segment?


Don't know...it was for a furnished rental...but they asked for employment/student info...and when I clarified, they said we don't rent to 'tourists'...So your guess it as good as mine...


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## saffron_gin

BackinFrance said:


> Depends which accommodation you are looking at, because they do standard leases as well and also some accommodation would attract tourist tax. However your visa seems to be something else.


I think same?


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## BackinFrance

IlaKain said:


> I think same?


It depends, the are many kinds of visitor visas, but if it is for 1 year or can be extended in France it is not the same.


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## Bevdeforges

IlaKain said:


> but they asked for employment/student info.


Because there is no centralized "credit rating" agency here in France, most credit decisions (whether by your bank or by a potential landlord or rental agency) are based on your monthly regular income. As a "visitor" (NOT a tourist) the usual assumption is that you are retired, and thus should have some sort of a pension, which is the regular income by which your credit status will be measured. This has to be "proven" with either a statement of your pension benefits or by showing bank statements that have the monthly deposit of your pension for the last several months.

Your rent cannot exceed about a third of your regular monthly income. (I think that may actually be enshrined in the law somewhere.)


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## saffron_gin

May be I used the term 'tourist' in the wrong capacity...I mean the visitor visa on a private capacity...does that make better sense?


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## BackinFrance

Lodgis does not spécialisé in furnished rentals for expats, though they do student rentals which are subject to different requirements.


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## GraceS

GraceS said:


> Other possibilities, specialized in furnished Paris apartments:
> 
> www.parisattitude.com
> www.parisrental.com
> www.lodgis.com
> 
> I've used the first one three times. Staff speaks English and the contract is in French and English.


Hi All--I posted the above reply a couple of days ago. Sounds like there have been problems with Lodgis? Sorry to hear that. I got all three website names from reliable Americans I met in Paris in early 2019: Lodgis, used by an American couple in Paris for a year of work; ParisRental, used by a retired American couple; and ParisAttitude, used by several different Americans, each with a different life situation/visa type. 

Of the three, I have personal experience only with ParisAttitude.


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## DC12345

BackinFrance said:


> Let us know how you get on - I'm sure ot would appreciate the feedback.


So I contacted both Lodgis and ParisAttitude (PA)and I had positive experience with both of them but ended up going with ParisAttitude simply because they had the listing I wanted. PA seems to charge higher commissions but in the end the rent I pay is much less than if I had used Airbnb for a comparable apartment. But at the same time, its a bit more work (with Airbnb, you are done after a few clicks) but with PA (and Lodgis), you have to send your financial docs to make the French landlord feel comfortable (eg if you don't have a regular pay slip, you have to get a guarantor from a company like Garantme or just pay everything upfront). My only concern with PA is that they have a lot of negative reviews on YELP about how the landlords do not return the 2 month security deposit (or take a long time) and PA doesn't do much to assist ....but I can't worry about that now and I have to trust that at the end of my stay my new landlord will be fair and honest. For now, I'm just relieved that I found something decent for my family in Paris. Merci beaucoup à tous!


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## TomMM

DC12345 said:


> So I contacted both Lodgis and ParisAttitude (PA)and I had positive experience with both of them but ended up going with ParisAttitude simply because they had the listing I wanted.


Thanks for this info. Last week I reached out to Lodgis concerning a furnished apartment and the person stopped communicating when I explained my situation. Today I expressed and interest for 2 apartments with PA and will see how that goes.

But I am wondering if I am using the right approach. My plan is to start the Long Stay Visa process in approximately 6-8 months but I am currently making a long weekend trip to Paris each month to slowly get acquainted with life there which has been great as I am making contacts etc. What I want to do now is to rent an apartment for my time there and in preparation for my move. 

When Lodgis initially responded to my inquiry about an apartment they asked the purpose of my stay and for how long I wanted to rent for. I responded with the above and have recieved no response. Is there a better way of accomplishing this?


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## Bevdeforges

One issue you may be running into is that rentals here usually aren't contracted way in advance like that. If you haven't even started the visa application process, there is a very real concern that something will "happen" in the next few months so that you won't be able to make the anticipated move. They are normally dealing with folks who have given notice wherever they are living and who are planning to move in within a month or six weeks of signing the lease.

What you could do is to look into an "apart-hotel" which is one of those suites places where you have cooking facilities and can live more or less like you were in an apartment. That way you only pay for the place the long weekends that you're in town but you get to live more like a long-term resident. Admittedly you don't have the convenience of being able to leave your stuff there between visits.


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## saffron_gin

Bevdeforges said:


> One issue you may be running into is that rentals here usually aren't contracted way in advance like that. If you haven't even started the visa application process, there is a very real concern that something will "happen" in the next few months so that you won't be able to make the anticipated move. They are normally dealing with folks who have given notice wherever they are living and who are planning to move in within a month or six weeks of signing the lease.
> 
> What you could do is to look into an "apart-hotel" which is one of those suites places where you have cooking facilities and can live more or less like you were in an apartment. That way you only pay for the place the long weekends that you're in town but you get to live more like a long-term resident. Admittedly you don't have the convenience of being able to leave your stuff there between visits.


But Lodgis did the same thing to me as TomMM and I was willing to take on something ASAP...Initially someone responded and when I explained I was going to be there on LSV-TS as visitor (may have used the word 'tourist' which couldn't have helped matters at all) they sent a curt no-reply email saying that they don't deal with visitors lol.


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## TomMM

Bevdeforges said:


> One issue you may be running into is that rentals here usually aren't contracted way in advance like that. If you haven't even started the visa application process, there is a very real concern that something will "happen" in the next few months so that you won't be able to make the anticipated move. They are normally dealing with folks who have given notice wherever they are living and who are planning to move in within a month or six weeks of signing the lease.
> 
> What you could do is to look into an "apart-hotel" which is one of those suites places where you have cooking facilities and can live more or less like you were in an apartment. That way you only pay for the place the long weekends that you're in town but you get to live more like a long-term resident. Admittedly you don't have the convenience of being able to leave your stuff there between visits.


Thanks that makes sense. I was hoping to bring a few items over I also wanted to open a bank account which seems to require a local address but reading above I see not all apartments may be used as a “primary residence “ which I am guessing means I couldn’t use the address for a bank account?


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## BackinFrance

You could open a non-resident bank account on the basis of your US primary residence and associated documentation and get it converted to a resident account once you can demonstrate that France is your primary residence. What you are planning won't qualify you for a resident French bank acc anyway.


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## TomMM

BackinFrance said:


> You could open a non-resident bank account on the basis of your US primary residence and associated documentation and get it converted to a resident account once you can demonstrate that France is your primary residence. What you are planning won't qualify you for a resident French bank acc anyway.


Yes, a non-resident account is what I am interested in. Based on another user's experience HSBC does offer non-resident accounts but they reported having to upload a copy of their lease contract. I did access HSBC's registration site and one of the first items it asked for was my phone # in France which I didn't have at the time. I'll take another look at the registration process and see how far I can get.

Thanks for all of the good information.


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## GraceS

DC12345 said:


> My only concern with PA is that they have a lot of negative reviews on YELP about how the landlords do not return the 2 month security deposit (or take a long time) and PA doesn't do much to assist ....but I can't worry about that now and I have to trust that at the end of my stay my new landlord will be fair and honest. For now, I'm just relieved that I found something decent for my family in Paris. Merci beaucoup à tous!


As I mentioned uptread, I've used Paris Attitude more than once. Each time, I got my full deposit back with no hassle at all, well within the allowed timeframe. 

There were a couple of steps that I think helped along the way, most suggested by folks on this forum. For example, I:
1. Gave my full attention to the etat des lieux at move in and move out.
2. Took photos/video at move in and move out.
3. Emailed the landlord immediately after move out, noting details of how I left things in the apartment and confirming that I had move in/out photos that could "help answer any questions"


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## Donnezmoi

DC12345 said:


> Hi. What are some websites/companies for finding furnished rentals in Paris catering to expats? I know the French ones (SeLoger, Leboncoin, Bien'ici PAP,etc) but I heard that French landlords don't like to rent to expats... Of course there are Airbnb and VRBO but looking for other options and ones where we don't have to pay all the platform fees. Thank you.


*We have had great experiences with SabbaticalHome.*


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## DC12345

UPDATE: My nightmare scenario happened -- when I moved out my landlord would not return my deposit (2 months worth of rent) . He said that some of the items were damaged and the apartment has not been cleaned hence in his view it is justified. For example, the sofa had some scratches but instead of charging me a repair cost, he is asking me to pay for whole a new sofa....and not giving me details of how he came up with his quote for the new sofa despite my multiple requests. Parris Attitude (the agency I used) is getting involved but I'm just wondering what kind of rights I have as a tenant esp as an expat and what are some actions I can take. Appreciate any advice. Thank you.


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## DC12345

DC12345 said:


> So I contacted both Lodgis and ParisAttitude (PA)and I had positive experience with both of them but ended up going with ParisAttitude simply because they had the listing I wanted. PA seems to charge higher commissions but in the end the rent I pay is much less than if I had used Airbnb for a comparable apartment. But at the same time, its a bit more work (with Airbnb, you are done after a few clicks) but with PA (and Lodgis), you have to send your financial docs to make the French landlord feel comfortable (eg if you don't have a regular pay slip, you have to get a guarantor from a company like Garantme or just pay everything upfront). My only concern with PA is that they have a lot of negative reviews on YELP about how the landlords do not return the 2 month security deposit (or take a long time) and PA doesn't do much to assist ....but I can't worry about that now and I have to trust that at the end of my stay my new landlord will be fair and honest. For now, I'm just relieved that I found something decent for my family in Paris. Merci beaucoup à tous!


UPDATE: My nightmare scenario happened -- when I moved out my landlord would not return my deposit (2 months worth of rent) . He said that some of the items were damaged and the apartment has not been cleaned hence in his view it is justified. For example, the sofa had some scratches but instead of charging me a repair cost, he is asking me to pay for whole a new sofa....and not giving me details of how he came up with his quote for the new sofa despite my multiple requests. Parris Attitude (the agency I used) is getting involved but I'm just wondering what kind of rights I have as a tenant esp as an expat and what are some actions I can take. Appreciate any advice. Thank you.


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## Bevdeforges

One of the key factors in any dispute over return of a deposit is whether or not you have the état des lieux documented - both on taking over the place and the one on your moving out.


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