# My twist on the "which city?" question



## shomer (Jul 7, 2014)

My wife and I (mid 50's) are considering moving to Mexico, but we're having trouble choosing a city that we might both like. I'd appreciate your suggestions. I've been spending two or more months each year solo in San Cristóbal de las Casas since 2004, and I'd happily relocate there: walkable city, lively arts scene, temperate climate, and lots of interesting, friendly (but younger) expats. I speak Spanish and mostly socialize with Spanish speakers while I'm in Mexico. My wife, on the other hand, didn't like or feel safe in San Cris after visiting me there twice. She doesn't speak Spanish and doesn't think she could learn the language. 

Some of our considerations:

* Access to an airport (elderly father-in-law in the USA)
* Temperate climate (no hot or humid beach towns)
* Clean air (San Miguel de Allende is off our list for that reason)
* Friendly, English-speaking expat community 
* Markets that sell organic vegetables, natural chickens, and other "natural" products
* Safe, walkable neighborhoods
* Wired internet access for my work (I think that limits us to being in or on the edge of a decent-sized town)

Lake Chapalla is one place we've considered, but I don't want to live in an American suburb planted in Mexico; I worry that I'd end up constantly traveling back and forth to Guadalajara to get my arts & culture "fix." I imagine it would meet my wife's requirements pretty well, though. 

What other cities should we consider visiting?


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## RVGRINGO (May 16, 2007)

Welcome to Chapala. It will fit your needs, is not gringolandia, has direct bus service to Guadalajra every 30 minutes if you need a ‘fix‘ and our home, just three blocks from the bus station, and everything else, can be yours, if you wish.


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## chicois8 (Aug 8, 2009)

Have you considered Ensenada in Baja California...
60 miles to the USA ....
Pacific ocean breeze & no humidity except some fog,LOL
fresh salt air
ex pats all over the area
organic farms in the Guadalupe wine country close by
safe neighborhoods with wifi and cable
no vehicle permits needed ...............


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## mxfan (Jun 7, 2014)

I was going to suggest Ensenada too because it fits your description plus it's close to the border so your wife may not feel trapped. Maybe live close to the border for awhile to let her acclimate then take some time to figure out the next step south. It's a nice city.

I would endorse wherever you choose but I am sensing your wife may need some time in the shallow end before getting in deep.


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

mxfan said:


> I was going to suggest Ensenada too because it fits your description plus it's close to the border so your wife may not feel trapped. Maybe live close to the border for awhile to let her acclimate then take some time to figure out the next step south. It's a nice city.
> 
> I would endorse wherever you choose but I am sensing your wife may need some time in the shallow end before getting in deep.


Excellent advice, mxfan! Retirement in Mexico can be difficult for couples if one partner is very gung-ho about the idea and the other one is not.


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## shomer (Jul 7, 2014)

OK, Lake Chapala stays on the list; thanks, RVGRINGO. 

I hadn't even considered Ensenada or anywhere else in Baja; I assumed the weather was hotter than (now that I actually look it up) it is. Plus, it's only one (long) day's drive from where we live in California now. 

Should Oaxaca city be on our list?


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## GARYJ65 (Feb 9, 2013)

shomer said:


> OK, Lake Chapala stays on the list; thanks, RVGRINGO. I hadn't even considered Ensenada or anywhere else in Baja; I assumed the weather was hotter than (now that I actually look it up) it is. Plus, it's only one (long) day's drive from where we live in California now. Should Oaxaca city be on our list?


Why Oaxaca?


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## coondawg (May 1, 2014)

I think you might also put Guanajuato on your list, but Chapala would be my first choice. RV has a beautiful home he is selling VERY reasonable, too.


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## AlanMexicali (Jun 1, 2011)

shomer said:


> My wife and I (mid 50's) are considering moving to Mexico, but we're having trouble choosing a city that we might both like. I'd appreciate your suggestions. I've been spending two or more months each year solo in San Cristóbal de las Casas since 2004, and I'd happily relocate there: walkable city, lively arts scene, temperate climate, and lots of interesting, friendly (but younger) expats. I speak Spanish and mostly socialize with Spanish speakers while I'm in Mexico. My wife, on the other hand, didn't like or feel safe in San Cris after visiting me there twice. She doesn't speak Spanish and doesn't think she could learn the language.
> 
> Some of our considerations:
> 
> ...


If your wife cannot communicate in Spanish and won´t learn then Chapala in Central Mexico is the best place to consider. San Miguel de Allende has been trying to close down the wood fueled brick making operations and this has cleaned up the air lately. It would be another place in Central Mexico where someone could get by with no Spanish. All other places, except Guanajuato, it would be almost impossible to do. IMO

Where I live in San Luis Potosí, a lovey colonial city of 1.4 million in Central Mexico, excellent climate and modern, you could not live here comfortably without basic comminicative Spanish and I feel Querétaro, another fine colonial city, it would be the same, I am not sure but suspect it is.

I feel Guadalajara would be the same as where I live for non Spanish speakers except tourist hotspots as in some hotels, some tourist frequented bars and restuarants in the colonial center etc.

it appears your options are limited.


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## shomer (Jul 7, 2014)

GARYJ65 said:


> Why Oaxaca?


Because I think it might meet our requirements, and because I liked what I saw of the place during two brief visits. But is there, for example, a natural foods grocery with an English-speaking clerk?


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## coondawg (May 1, 2014)

shomer said:


> Because I think it might meet our requirements, and because I liked what I saw of the place during two brief visits. But is there, for example, a natural foods grocery with an English-speaking clerk?


Austin, Texas, has one of those natural foods grocery, but I don't think they have a "temperate" climate year round, but meet your other criteria.


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## shomer (Jul 7, 2014)

coondawg said:


> I think you might also put Guanajuato on your list, but Chapala would be my first choice. RV has a beautiful home he is selling VERY reasonable, too.


I really enjoyed wandering around Guanajuato for a couple of days last Summer. Walkable but steep: a recipe for a healthy lifestyle. 

How is the air quality; does the valley trap the smog? Is there a natural food grocery store with English-speaking clerks?


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## chicois8 (Aug 8, 2009)

And if the OP was in Oaxaca today he could see the annual teachers strike which started today and closed down Centro Historical for who knows how long........que lastima......


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

chicois8 said:


> And if the OP was in Oaxaca today he could see the annual teachers strike which started today and closed down Centro Historical for who knows how long........que lastima......


Indeed it is a pity, a crime really. Why doesn't the city government do anything to keep these "teachers" under control?


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## chicois8 (Aug 8, 2009)

Isla, do you really believe the teachers are orchestrating these events or are being used by the puppet masters?


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

chicois8 said:


> Isla, do you really believe the teachers are orchestrating these events or are being used by the puppet masters?


Of course not. That's why I put "teachers" in quotation marks.


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## chicois8 (Aug 8, 2009)

Yes, I caught that after I posted and edit time had run out.......Last Feb. when I was there the news was all 13 burnt buses had been removed from inbound roads and highways around the city the day before...


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## AlanMexicali (Jun 1, 2011)

Reducirían 90% la contaminación con hornos ecológicos 


Google Translation:

"El Sol de León 

20 de febrero de 2011 


"90% reduction of pollution would happen with ecological ovens

They test them in San Miguel de Allende 


María Guadalupe 

Leon Guanajuato.- Producers Ladrilleras Refuge conducted the first tests in the ecological oven in San Miguel de Allende, in order to seek alternatives that reduce the environmental pollution generated by performing mainly septum and streamline your work. 

Carlos Frías Mejia, brickmaker producer, said the traditional way in which it is produced is not profitable because the resources hundred percent are not exploited, so it is necessary to generate other options to improve the conditions in which the brick is made , since in the furnaces currently used in the burning of raw bricks, is wasted at least 40 percent. 

He added that all efforts for some years performed to someday make their product is well paid that is a means to cushion poverty being experienced by the population due to the proceeds from the sale of the septum are lacking to invested more than you earn. 

The Guild of brickmakers in this population is confident that with the support of the authorities of the three levels of government will be achieved finalize the project, including the acquisition of at least 150 furnaces that equals the number of producers who are working in this office. 

The investment required is producing 60 thousand pesos each, this amount intended to be funded by the three levels of government and the brick, to make it next year as they are already using ecological ovens. 

Frias Mejia said of his stay in San Miguel de Allende, "we went three companions in order to see alternatives in question to improve the environment by us brickmakers, because we know that our work generates some pollution in the environment and we are working to mitigate the impact that our brick kilns. "

He said the paper where the characteristics of topo oven mk-2 explained was provided by the creator himself, Roberto Marquez, same as explained the parts and operation of this including: boilers or combustion chambers, where it takes After burning fuel, either wood, oil or other material. Arcos: supporting the bricks that will burn, let the fire spread in burning bricks, door fueling its function is to feed fuel to the boiler and distribute, through this door enters the air used to combusting the fuel. 

It also includes cargo doors: behind the ovens where it enters the brick oven is sealed with mud and lies burning to load or unload. Tunnels lead the smoke of a furnace to another, have gates or cutters to cut the smoke and use the filter. Dome: provides better combustion, reach temperatures in less time, it is the part containing the furnace smoke, prevents escape outwards and channels makes the filter. Fireplace: Drive the smoke outside once passed through the filter. 

Moreover, he added, "it became a practical test in the oven with a fuel oil treaty is sold by Mexican additives Queretaro. Demonstration was conducted to learn how the filter having this oven is a filter based raw bricks, has two ovens that burn when you have the other one charging raw and that serves as a filter for emissions of soot particles or mentioning us Dr. Robert Marquez, depending on the fuel that can reduce pollution up to 90 percent. "We tested carrying bricks from the community to San Miguel de Allende. 

It is noteworthy that the fuel used was in this wood case, yielding a positive result, "we are in the stage of looking for other fuels because organic standard is a little strict, nothing're accommodating what might be economically viable and friendly to the environment. ""


Another explaination of brick oven air contamination:

http://es.slideshare.net/antoniodelaserna/aspectos-tcnicos-de-la-contaminacin-por-ladrilleras

Evidently some brick ovens burn trash with even plastic mixed in with the trash in San Miguel de Allende.


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## Longford (May 25, 2012)

Sounds to me as if the Lakeside communities meet the criteria. Your wife would need to have a conversational level of Spanish to live in Guanajuato, SMA or Oaxaca. The suggestion regarding Baja California is a good one, also. Best of luck.


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

I would think that the answer is would your wife like it. So maybe she should be doing the search so you would be off the hook.
Oaxaca has a beautiful center, the rest of the city is the pits. Many expats live in the surrounding villages like in the Etlas so your wife could meet English speaking people, also many go to the beaches in Oaxaca like Puerto Escondito, Mazunte and Huatulco.
Oaxaca is like San Cristobal you need to get out for a while so the beaches are the perfect place to do it. Also Puebla and Df are not that far if you really want out for a while.


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## RVGRINGO (May 16, 2007)

Wherever you go, you may have to adapt to very fresh vegetables from the local mercados publicos or weekly tianguis. English speaking clerks? Why would you even expect them to speak English? You will be in Mexico. In spite of that, you will do just fine and soon learn the names of various foods, or just pick them up and then take your basket to the clerk.


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## shomer (Jul 7, 2014)

Thanks to all of you for the helpful comments and suggestions. It looks like we should do some more research about the Lake Chapala area and Baja Norte. 

Alan, the article about brick kilns near SMA was interesting. I have read that one major kiln burns lots of old tires illegally, along with other trash, but since the owner is politically connected, nothing can be done about it quickly. Probably by the time the air gets cleaned up, housing prices will be so high that we wouldn't be able to afford to live there!

Citlali, I like your suggestion that my wife do the research. Our other option is to move to a less expensive part of the USA, and she's researching that. We're in the frustrating and rather scary situation of having reached very different answers to the question, "What do you want to do with the rest of your life?" We're trying to sort it out together.


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## shomer (Jul 7, 2014)

RVGRINGO said:


> English speaking clerks? Why would you even expect them to speak English? You will be in Mexico.


I only expect clerks to speak English if they were students in my English classes in San Cris!


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

Looking at what you want to do for the rest of your life is scary and depressing, Iwould look at it for the next 2 or 3 years and then inertia sets in and you do not move if you are happy. No need to make a major decision and all decisions can be reversed anyways so do not buy rent and remain flexible.

A friend of mine is going through tha decision and ended up in a deep depression. The rest of your life is just to scary to think about, take it one day at a time and end up where ever, you can always change your mind and go somewhere else if it does not work out.

We have been living in Mexico for 13 years,the longest we have ever been in one place but we have two places so that helps.
One thing you cannot do is get out of an expensive area and think you will ever be able to go back and have the same life style, just do not go back and do not look for something you used to have because you will not find it.


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## ojosazules11 (Nov 3, 2013)

citlali said:


> Looking at what you want to do for the rest of your life is scary and depressing, Iwould look at it for the next 2 or 3 years and then inertia sets in and you do not move if you are happy. No need to make a major decision and all decisions can be reversed anyways so do not buy rent and remain flexible.
> 
> A friend of mine is going through tha decision and ended up in a deep depression. The rest of your life is just to scary to think about, take it one day at a time and end up where ever, you can always change your mind and go somewhere else if it does not work out.
> 
> ...


I agree. I have planned out the rest of my life countless times over the past 35 years. But life has a way of inserting detours into the best laid plans. I think those detours have turned out better than if I had rigidly stuck to the original plan. We sometimes lock ourselves into unhappiness and don't realize we ourselves have the key to get out. 

Planning for the future can be a good thing, as long as you don't forget that important clause, "subject to change."


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## coondawg (May 1, 2014)

citlali said:


> Looking at what you want to do for the rest of your life is scary and depressing,
> take it one day at a time and end up where ever, you can always change your mind and go somewhere else if it does not work out. all decisions can be reversed anyways so do not buy, rent and remain flexible.
> 
> We have been living in Mexico for 13 years,the longest we have ever been in one place but we have two places so that helps.
> ...


Very good information here.


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## Chao (Aug 21, 2014)

coondawg said:


> Austin, Texas, has one of those natural foods grocery, but I don't think they have a "temperate" climate year round, but meet your other criteria.


I moved away from Austin three months ago after living there for 35 years. In that time period, Austin went from a sleepy little college town to a metro area of almost 2 million people. If it hasn't already, the Austin metro area will soon surpass the San Antonio metro area in population. Austin's roads are seriously congested. 

Temperate climate year round? Ha! Their summers are hot and humid. A few years ago (2011?) Austin had 67 days of 100 degrees or more. The time of the year to be in Austin is November through April. Winters are mild. Typically in January, 60's for highs and 40's for lows.

Austin has natural foods grocery stores. The biggest chain is Whole Foods. Whole Foods started out in Austin. Some people refer to it as Whole Paycheck, as that's how much you'll spend there on groceries.


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## andi_correa (Jan 24, 2015)

I know this is an older message but I was wondering if you made the decision? If so, where did you end up? 
I'm making the same considerations right now.
~andi~


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## shomer (Jul 7, 2014)

andi_correa said:


> I know this is an older message but I was wondering if you made the decision? If so, where did you end up?
> I'm making the same considerations right now.
> ~andi~


No, we are still dithering! I spent the Fall teaching in Colombia, and while I was in the neighborhood I took a short vacation in Cuenca, Ecuador. I liked Cuenca a lot, and I think my wife might too. The main drawback was that it would have been expensive and inconvenient to visit my father-in-law. He passed away unexpectedly last week, and he was our only close family tie to the States. It will take some time before we can put things in perspective and decide where to move.


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