# Can someone list the Pros and Cons



## celticlass

of taking residency in Spain, please.

We have had a home in Spain for some years and freely admit to spending more than 183 days sometimes, but have never applied for residency. Simply because I have known people who when they had to leave Spain and return to the Uk had a whole load of problems getting Bank accounts / registered with doctors etc.
Fortunately I only spend less than 6 months of the year in Spain these days so it's immaterial for the moment.


However, my daughter has just bought a thriving business which also has a finca and guest house attached, and will be leaving the Uk Next month for her new life in Spain, and hopefully continued success with the business.

Can someone please explain how residencia works...*and/or the disadvantages with regards to her situation, and also does anyone know where to find more information on the problems associated with being an employer in Spain. (she has inherited several staff) 

She's keen to do everything within the law. 

Incidentally this is for me to understand, she's already believes due to a very good lawyer that she has everything under control.

Having seen many an expat go in to business as green as grass (thinking they know what they're doing) and come out even greener and more skint, I'd just like to know what pitfalls she could be setting herself up for.

Thanks everyone, *


----------



## Stravinsky

celticlass said:


> of taking residency in Spain, please.
> 
> We have had a home in Spain for some years and freely admit to spending more than 183 days sometimes, but have never applied for residency. Simply because I have known people who when they had to leave Spain and return to the Uk had a whole load of problems getting Bank accounts / registered with doctors etc.
> Fortunately I only spend less than 6 months of the year in Spain these days so it's immaterial for the moment.
> 
> 
> However, my daughter has just bought a thriving business which also has a finca and guest house attached, and will be leaving the Uk Next month for her new life in Spain, and hopefully continued success with the business.
> 
> Can someone please explain how residencia works...*and/or the disadvantages with regards to her situation, and also does anyone know where to find more information on the problems associated with being an employer in Spain. (she has inherited several staff)
> 
> She's keen to do everything within the law.
> 
> Incidentally this is for me to understand, she's already believes due to a very good lawyer that she has everything under control.
> 
> Having seen many an expat go in to business as green as grass (thinking they know what they're doing) and come out even greener and more skint, I'd just like to know what pitfalls she could be setting herself up for.
> 
> Thanks everyone, *


*

Just on the subject of residencia (as you call it), there are no pro's and con's as such if you live in Spain. You are required by law to sign on the list of foreigners .. you have no choice if you permanently reside here. This is what is now called residencia.

It makes no difference to what will happen to you in the UK should you go back. You will experience similar problems if you sign or if you don't. The problem is generally that you have no recent credit history when you go back, or utility bills etc etc. Thats why I kept bank accounts and credit cards running in the UK .. just in case

When you get your cert nowadays its on the same document as your NIE number (green A4 sheet). Its becoming a requirement for more and more things these days. 

Presumably your daughter will have to register as autonomo and pay the NI charges every month, which I assume with the help of her lawyer she has already sorted out*


----------



## celticlass

Stravinsky said:


> Just on the subject of residencia (as you call it), there are no pro's and con's as such if you live in Spain. You are required by law to sign on the list of foreigners .. you have no choice if you permanently reside here. This is what is now called residencia.
> 
> It makes no difference to what will happen to you in the UK should you go back. You will experience similar problems if you sign or if you don't. The problem is generally that you have no recent credit history when you go back, or utility bills etc etc. Thats why I kept bank accounts and credit cards running in the UK .. just in case
> 
> When you get your cert nowadays its on the same document as your NIE number (green A4 sheet). Its becoming a requirement for more and more things these days.
> 
> Presumably your daughter will have to register as autonomo and pay the NI charges every month, which I assume with the help of her lawyer she has already sorted out



Thanks *S* yes she has already sorted all of that, she is married into a Spanish family who have provided their own lawyers for her use.

but really it was for me because I have never taken Spanish residence even though I lived there for many years on a permanent basis just commuting back to the uk a couple of times a year, so I'm a bit out of touch. Furthermore I've never owned a business in Spain so all that side of it new to me.

I still live on the CB 1/2 the year and have no intention of taking out residencia even now, because I need to use my NHS doctor & dentist on a regular basis..so my NIE and padron have been more than useful enough for me. 

Please feel free to explain things more clearly to me, I'm a bit slow when it comes to official type stuff...I won't be offended, as long as no-one swears at me 


Good thing my daughter is a lot more intelligent than her mother!


----------



## gus-lopez

There aren't any pros & cons it's a legal requirement . 

Any EU citizen intending to stay in Spain for more than three months is obliged to register to be added to the Central Register of Foreign Nationals (Registro Central de Extranjeros) at a Foreigners Office (Oficina de Extranjero) or local police station (Policia Nacional) if there is no foreigner's office in the area in which they intend to reside. 

A Registration Certificate as an EU Resident (Certificado de registro como residente comunitario) is issued. This document certifies residence in Spain and includes the holders name, address, nationality, and foreigners tax identification number (Número de Identificación de Extranjero - NIE) along with the date of registration.

Note: Prior to the introduction of the Registration Certificate in April 2007, foreigners were required to submit a separate application for an NIE. This is no longer necessary, as application for an NIE is incorporated in the residence certificate application process. 

The "inherited some staff " would worry me , especially if they have full contracts . I would hope that allowance has been made for this in the asking price as if you take over a business with contracted staff you're also taking on their redundancy payments which can be up to 45 days pay for every year they've been employed !

In the 8 years I've been here I've never seen any spaniard take over a business & retain the staff. They might be working there the following week but they've had their redundancy money from the seller & are re-employed by the new owner.


----------



## gus-lopez

Sorry strav, posts crossed. Celticlass, you probably won't need to worry about the rest of my post then if she's married in to a spanish family .


----------



## Stravinsky

celticlass said:


> Thanks *S* yes she has already sorted all of that, she is married into a Spanish family who have provided their own lawyers for her use.
> 
> but really it was for me because I have never taken Spanish residence even though I lived there for many years on a permanent basis just commuting back to the uk a couple of times a year, so I'm a bit out of touch. Furthermore I've never owned a business in Spain so all that side of it new to me.
> 
> I still live on the CB 1/2 the year and have no intention of taking out residencia even now, because I need to use my NHS doctor & dentist on a regular basis..so my NIE and padron have been more than useful enough for me.
> 
> Please feel free to explain things more clearly to me, I'm a bit slow when it comes to official type stuff...I won't be offended, as long as no-one swears at me
> 
> 
> Good thing my daughter is a lot more intelligent than her mother!


Errr well ... dont take offence then ... I'm just telling you it as it is 

If you are no longer a UK resident, which by your initial comment above you are not, then by using the NHS service you are actually defrauding the NHS as you are not entitled to their services any more.

By not registering on the Spanish foreigners list you are more than likely breaking Spanish law as it is a requirement that you do so. The UK authorities don't actually know you have done this, so it doesn't actually affect anything really if you eventually go home. 

I'm assuming you DO spend most of the year here from the initial comment, and therefore you will most likely be a Spanish tax resident and therefore should make a tax declaration here. It will certainly apply to your daughter, and she will no longer be entitled to NHS services either

As I say though I dont know your full circumstances


----------



## celticlass

gus-lopez said:


> Sorry strav, posts crossed. Celticlass, you probably won't need to worry about the rest of my post then if she's married in to a spanish family .


Gus, no everything you say is relevant to me, thank you.. 

I'm also a little concerned about the staff situation having witnessed existing bar staff taking new owners who hadn't done their homework to the cleaners so to speak 


Just to make it clear...the f'family' are in now way connected with this new business.

They are Spanish , but raised their son in England before leaving to go back to Spain...so their Spanglish for want of a better expression, but having run their own businesses on the CDS for 30 years they certainly have experience and good lawyers to hand.

My daughters' new business is on the CDS but not close to the in-laws!


----------



## celticlass

No offence taken *S* I fully admit to not being totally legal in Spain, but then again on the odd occasion I've needed to use it I've always paid for private medical attention.

I don't work in Spain and I'm too young for a pension, and of course I do pay all the suma on my car and on my house, so I can't see any advantage to becoming resident particularly as I spend more time in the UK these days than I do in Spain. 


Anyway thankyou thus far for your help , I'll pass your comments onto my daughter, and doubtless be back to pick your brains more if I may be so bold :clap2:


----------



## 90199

celticlass said:


> I don't work in Spain and I'm too young for a pension, and of course I do pay all the suma on my car and on my house, so I can't see any advantage to becoming resident :


I can see an advantage, several, from opening a bank account, buying property, even this afternoon activating my Spanish bank account card. On each of these occasions, my N.I.E. number was asked for. 

However in my case the main advantage that far outweighs all the others is a financial advantage, because of Canary Island residencia, I get a *huge* discount on Spanish internal flights and ferry fares,

Hepa


----------



## Pesky Wesky

Hepa said:


> I can see an advantage, several, from opening a bank account, buying property, even this afternoon activating my Spanish bank account card. On each of these occasions, my N.I.E. number was asked for.
> 
> However in my case the main advantage that far outweighs all the others is a financial advantage, because of Canary Island residencia, I get a *huge* discount on Spanish internal flights and ferry fares,
> 
> Hepa


The OP already has an NIE. And she/ he's on the padron. From what I can make out she/ he doesn't have the *certificate.
*So how did you get the NIE, and when did you get it???

OP, you don't have to _*take out a residencia*_you have to 
sign on the padron (which you say you've already done, but you may need to renew)
Get an NIE (which you say you've already done, but you need an A4 sized certificate to say that you've got it)

The idea of doing this is that the local town hall is designated funds based on how many people are officially registered in its area, so if you don't sign on you're doing yourself and others out of public services.

Please confirm/ reject this OP and forum members!


----------



## celticlass

Pesky Wesky said:


> The OP already has an NIE. And she/ he's on the padron. From what I can make out she/ he doesn't have the *certificate.
> *So how did you get the NIE, and when did you get it???
> 
> OP, you don't have to _*take out a residencia*_you have to
> sign on the padron (which you say you've already done, but you may need to renew)
> Get an NIE (which you say you've already done, but you need an A4 sized certificate to say that you've got it)
> 
> The idea of doing this is that the local town hall is designated funds based on how many people are officially registered in its area, so if you don't sign on you're doing yourself and others out of public services.
> 
> Please confirm/ reject this OP and forum members!


I already Have an NIE which I got in 2004 when we first bought our house. In those days the NIE was not part of the residencia certificate. I have an A4 sized certificate which lives happily beside my escritura. In those days we had to be up at the crack of dawn and stand in a queue hours long in Alicante along with our agent, to get the NIE. I've still got the pictures.

I am signed on the Padron and it's updated every year so there's enough essential services to go around in our village. In fact now so many expats have gone home there's probably more than plenty.

I have several Spanish bank accounts..I have an NIE , and signed on the Padron, have been for years, this isn't about me this is about my daughter and her imminent arrival on the CDS to run a business.

Thanks Pesky wesky for trying to help. :clap2:


----------



## mayotom

The one thing that has been confusing my re residency for UK citizens is that the british government recognises you as resident if you spend 90 days in the country, however most other countries are over 180 days, so what happens for example to celticclass if he spends 100 days in the UK and the rest in Spain, which country should he pay taxes in first?


----------



## celticlass

mayotom said:


> The one thing that has been confusing my re residency for UK citizens is that the british government recognises you as resident if you spend 90 days in the country, however most other countries are over 180 days, s*o what happens for example to celticclass if he spends 100 days in the UK* and the rest in Spain, which country should he pay taxes in first?


 Good question Mayotom...but just one thing..I am a girl.. :cheer2:


----------



## Alcalaina

celticlass said:


> Good question Mayotom...but just one thing..I am a girl.. :cheer2:


... there´s a bit of a clue in your forum name!!!

The British Embassy in SpaIn have a good website which clarifies this issue, An NIE is not the same as a residence certificate. 

Entry & residence requirements

"*Residence requirements*

From 28 March 2007, Royal Decree 240/07 requires that all EU citizens planning to reside in Spain for more than 3 months should register in person at the Oficina de Extranjeros in their province of residence or at designated Police stations. However, you will no longer be issued with a residence card. Instead you will be issued a *Residence Certificate* stating your name, address, nationality, NIE number (Número de Identificación Extranjeros) and date of registration.

If you are an EU citizen with a valid residency card, you do not need to do anything until your card expires. On expiry you must register at the Oficina de Extranjeros or designated police stations.

You should apply in person within 3 months of entry into Spain at the Oficina de Extranjeros in your province of residence. You will be asked to present a valid passport, complete an application form and pay a fee."


----------



## 90199

Pesky Wesky said:


> The OP already has an NIE. And she/ he's on the padron. From what I can make out she/ he doesn't have the *certificate.
> *So how did you get the NIE, and when did you get it???
> [/QUOTE
> 
> I got my N.I.E. at the same time that I obtained residencia, from the office that deals with passports, driving licences etc. ( Not Traffico we don't have them here) I obtained mine maybe 10 years ago possibly less,
> 
> Hepa


----------



## Stravinsky

Alcalaina said:


> ... there´s a bit of a clue in your forum name!!!
> 
> The British Embassy in SpaIn have a good website which clarifies this issue, An NIE is not the same as a residence certificate.
> 
> Entry & residence requirements
> 
> "*Residence requirements*
> 
> From 28 March 2007, Royal Decree 240/07 requires that all EU citizens planning to reside in Spain for more than 3 months should register in person at the Oficina de Extranjeros in their province of residence or at designated Police stations. However, you will no longer be issued with a residence card. Instead you will be issued a *Residence Certificate* stating your name, address, nationality, NIE number (Número de Identificación Extranjeros) and date of registration.
> 
> If you are an EU citizen with a valid residency card, you do not need to do anything until your card expires. On expiry you must register at the Oficina de Extranjeros or designated police stations.
> 
> You should apply in person within 3 months of entry into Spain at the Oficina de Extranjeros in your province of residence. You will be asked to present a valid passport, complete an application form and pay a fee."


Thank you Alcalaina
Its never true to say (as some do) that people residing here don't need to take "residencia". They are required to by law. The confusing thing is that due to EU intervention it's no longer really called residencia, as it's just signing on the list of Extranjeros


----------



## Alcalaina

Stravinsky said:


> Thank you Alcalaina
> Its never true to say (as some do) that people residing here don't need to take "residencia". They are required to by law. The confusing thing is that due to EU intervention it's no longer really called residencia, as it's just signing on the list of Extranjeros


Yes, and I'm sure many British citizens would be very unhappy if they thought people were coming into the UK from other parts of Europe without making themselves known to the authorities! It works both ways.


----------



## Pesky Wesky

Stravinsky said:


> Thank you Alcalaina
> Its never true to say (as some do) that people residing here don't need to take "residencia".



Which is _*exactly*_ what I said in my post Stravinsky, as I'm sure you realise!



> The confusing thing is that due to EU intervention it's no longer really called residencia, as it's just signing on the list of Extranjeros


I'd take out the "really" and then you've got it.

I rest my case !!

Actually I give up trying to explain to people what you've got to do. It's really not complicated, but the threads on the forum go round and round :blabla: and round and round. Just look at the sticky on the subject!!
I feel sick, so I'm getting off


----------



## mayotom

celticlass said:


> Good question Mayotom...but just one thing..I am a girl.. :cheer2:


right I have to give up these 3am posts, Sorry celticlass


----------



## Stravinsky

Pesky Wesky said:


> Which is _*exactly*_ what I said in my post Stravinsky, as I'm sure you realise!
> 
> 
> I'd take out the "really" and then you've got it.
> 
> I rest my case !!
> 
> Actually I give up trying to explain to people what you've got to do. It's really not complicated, but the threads on the forum go round and round :blabla: and round and round. Just look at the sticky on the subject!!
> I feel sick, so I'm getting off


Err ... yes I realise
You think it goes round and round? 
I've been on these forums now for 6 years ... answering the same questions every two weeks or so. So you perhaps understand why I get so frustrated when sometimes people come on forums who heard a guy in the pub telling someone how to do something, and therefore what the forum is telling him is wrong.


----------



## Alcalaina

Stravinsky said:


> Err ... yes I realise
> You think it goes round and round?
> I've been on these forums now for 6 years ... answering the same questions every two weeks or so. So you perhaps understand why I get so frustrated when sometimes people come on forums who heard a guy in the pub telling someone how to do something, and therefore what the forum is telling him is wrong.


You Mods must have the patience of saints.:angel:

I´ve met that guy in the pub. In our case it was the estate agent who sold us the house! We went down so many blind alleys before we got it all sorted ...


----------

