# A Casino in Chapala



## mariben (Jul 3, 2011)

Hi,

For all expats living in Chapala and AJijic:

Please comment on alleged plans of building a new development in Chapala or Ajijic (not sure) that will include a Casino. Is this true? If so: How does the community visualizes it?

I'm thinking of moving to the Chapala area and if true, those are bad news for me. Please reply.

Thanks,
Mariben


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## pappabee (Jun 22, 2010)

According to The Guad Reporter there is a full resort being built above Chula Vista Norte in San Antonio Tlay. There is also a casino that has just opened across from WalMart in the same village.

It seems to me that casinos are the best and worst of worlds. As for the best it means money coming in to the area because people not only come to gamble but they spend money in the surrounding areas. The worst is because gambling is an addictive occurrence and many who play can not stop. It is also a wonderful place to launder money as proved by the Las Vegas scene years ago (and probably now still).

I would be very interested on how much revenue the village, city and state would make from these casinos. 

According to Stateline.org here are the states tax revenue listing from all sources": 
Pennsylvania $1.3 billion
Indiana $875 million
Nevada $835 million
Louisiana $572 million
New York $503 million
Missouri $486 million
Illinois $466 million
West Virginia $378 million
Michigan $311 million
New Jersey $306 million

As you can see, if we allow lotteries then why would we have a problem with casinos? Nevada and New Jersey are the two states most people thing about when we talk about for-profit casinos. Yes there might be a few smaller ones in other states but nothing compared to those two. 

IMHO I really don't see a problem with them. OH btw, I do not gamble because I hate to loose.


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## FHBOY (Jun 15, 2010)

*In Ajijic*

There is already a casino, just south of the carretera on Calle Juan Alvarez.


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## conorkilleen (Apr 28, 2010)

I think Casinos in Mexico are a bad thing. Just look at what happened last night a few blocks away from where I live in Monterrey. I saw the carnage first hand.

Cartels launder their money there. They get bribes from there. NO Casino in Mexico is without corruption....they are an easy target. Right now, Mexico should outlaw Casinos until they have the drug war under control. Yes, they bring in revenue, tourism, and pay taxes for the area, but they also are the filth from which other filth feed off of.

Stay out and boycott Casinos in Mexico, please.


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## conorkilleen (Apr 28, 2010)

I think Casinos in Mexico are a bad thing. Just look at what happened last night a few blocks away from where I live in Monterrey. I saw the carnage first hand.

Cartels launder their money there. They get bribes from there. NO Casino in Mexico is without corruption....they are an easy target. Right now, Mexico should outlaw Casinos until they have the drug war under control. Yes, they bring in revenue, tourism, and pay taxes for the area, but they also are the filth from which other filth feed off of.

Stay out and boycott Casinos in Mexico, please.


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## sparks (Jun 17, 2007)

There seems to be uncontrolled growth along the whole north side of the lake .... which is why I didn't want to live there after 14 months. I'd rather live in a city where neighborhoods and traffic don't change drastically in a short period .... or live in the country/small town.

Lakeside is becoming more and more the playground for Guadalajara (let's go to the LAKE!) and the space and facilities are lacking to handle it. The 1000+ cracker-box houses and apartments just outside of Jocotepec was the last straw for me.

And the ocean is so much prettier than the lake ... so here I am.


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## joaquinx (Jul 3, 2010)

conorkilleen said:


> I think Casinos in Mexico are a bad thing. Just look at what happened last night a few blocks away from where I live in Monterrey. I saw the carnage first hand.
> 
> Cartels launder their money there. They get bribes from there. NO Casino in Mexico is without corruption....they are an easy target. Right now, Mexico should outlaw Casinos until they have the drug war under control. Yes, they bring in revenue, tourism, and pay taxes for the area, but they also are the filth from which other filth feed off of.
> 
> Stay out and boycott Casinos in Mexico, please.


The insident at the casino in Monterrey had nothing to do with the evils of gambling. Cartels do not launder their money there. What happened was a case of extortion. The casino didn't pay and they got bombed.

Casinos in Mexico are 95% or more slot machines. Not much money exchanges hands. The casinos in Mexico are not that same as those in Reno, Las Vegas, or Atlantic City.


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## conorkilleen (Apr 28, 2010)

joaquinx said:


> The insident at the casino in Monterrey had nothing to do with the evils of gambling. Cartels do not launder their money there. What happened was a case of extortion. The casino didn't pay and they got bombed.
> 
> Casinos in Mexico are 95% or more slot machines. Not much money exchanges hands. The casinos in Mexico are not that same as those in Reno, Las Vegas, or Atlantic City.


I politely disagree. Apparently you have not done as much research and puzzle assembly with the info as I have. There are over 30 just in the Monterrey area alone. There are actually quite a few close to the border as well that just got attacked a few days ago and a few yesterday not counting the Royale here in MTY. Do some research as to who owns them and what the families are involved in/with.

Just because the amount of cash that flows through them is not the same amount as Vegas, does not mean they are not capable of handling the amounts of money that the cartels bring back into Mexico. It's not the only launder scheme, but it's one of them.

Here in MTY is basically common knowledge that it happens. Maybe different in Veracruz? Yesterdays attack was said to be because they did not pay a mordida of 130,000 pesos to the Z....but common...that's like 2 days takings at the Royale.

Yes, it had nothing to do with the evils of gambling...and it was not just a bombing....it was mass murder. 60+ people died.

You should see the local news about the Casinos here the day after...NOBODY is going. Empty chairs and bars.


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## pappabee (Jun 22, 2010)

Let's get a few facts straight first. 

MONTERREY, Mexico (AP) — Mexican President Felipe Calderon declared three days of mourning Friday following the arson of a casino by presumed drug traffickers that killed 52, calling those responsible "true terrorists."

That "AP" is the Associated Press and they're saying that 52 people were killed not the 60+ you stated. You also state that NO casino in Mexico is without corruption. That's a very broad statement and you offer no proof. Of the over 6,000+ casinos in the US I would say that many (OK maybe almost all) have some form of corruption but not ALL of them. So how can you state that all of the Mexican casinos are corrupt? Please spice up your posts with facts.

You stated that the reason for the attack was that the casino had not paid it's protection money. I'm not sure that it is true but it makes a lot of sense. Also where do you get the fact that the Royal takes in $65,000 per day? (I'm not saying that they don't I just want to know where you get your facts.)

In other words, I've spoken about "yellow press" in the past and I feel that your posting is an example of "yellow posting". 

FYI I'm not saying that gambling or casinos in Mexico are any better or cleaner than anywhere else. Nor am I saying that the corruption that we all know happens in Mexico doesn't happen with regard to the casinos. Lots of cash, little control. What I am saying is if you state something please back it with some proof.


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## conorkilleen (Apr 28, 2010)

pappabee said:


> Let's get a few facts straight first.
> 
> MONTERREY, Mexico (AP) — Mexican President Felipe Calderon declared three days of mourning Friday following the arson of a casino by presumed drug traffickers that killed 52, calling those responsible "true terrorists."
> 
> ...


no true proof...I just live here. Media says 52, my sources says 60+. Lets squabble over 10 lives. its still over 50.... Less than 50 is OK?

65,000 is a good weekend in the Royale. 2 days. remember they are open 24 hours with rich San Pedrians flocking at all hours. I may be off and that may be an exaggeration, but 65k is nothing to a casino here in Monterrey. The rent for the month may be 130,000 pesos depending on the real estate.


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## conorkilleen (Apr 28, 2010)

so....back to on topic. After this weeks attacks on 4 Casinos and 50+ deaths, are you willing to frequent one or condone one in your neighborhood (in Mexico)? The Royale has never been hit before...will yours be next?

The war is not limited to the border..Acapulco?

again...not saying don't come to Mexico..just boycott the casinos. Its nothing but trouble. This week has shown.

Bubblepats and business expats alike.


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## conorkilleen (Apr 28, 2010)

conorkilleen said:


> no true proof...I just live here. Media says 52, my sources says 60+. Lets squabble over 10 lives. its still over 50.... Less than 50 is OK?
> 
> 65,000 is a good weekend in the Royale. 2 days. remember they are open 24 hours with rich San Pedrians flocking at all hours. I may be off and that may be an exaggeration, but 65k is nothing to a casino here in Monterrey. The rent for the month may be 130,000 pesos depending on the real estate.


Total mistake made on the conversion. 130,000 pesos is 10.5k USD. not 65k. Emotional typing. My mistake for not catching.


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## conorkilleen (Apr 28, 2010)

conorkilleen said:


> Total mistake made on the conversion. 130,000 pesos is 10.5k USD. not 65k. Emotional typing. My mistake for not catching.


so thats 5.25K usd per day. As I said. Thats a good weekend for the Royale. 50-75 people in there at any given time blowing 20 bucks an hour. Open 24 hours. Yeah. Thats the take at the minimum.

130,000 pesos is chump change per month.

Boycott Casinos in Mexico


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## pappabee (Jun 22, 2010)

conorkilleen said:


> no true proof...I just live here. Media says 52, my sources says 60+. Lets squabble over 10 lives. its still over 50.... Less than 50 is OK?
> 
> _ First of all I think this comment is completely uncalled for. I was only questioning your facts not the actual incident. I can't feel comfortable with any death let along 50 or 60. I'm not "squabbling" over 10 lives I'm concerned with your lack of facts. A few days ago I posted erroneous information regarding the FM2-FM3. I was quickly called on it and rightly so.
> 
> ...


_I have a some very good friends who currently live in Monterrey and are in the commercial real estate business and they say that 130,000 per month seems a little high. With the drug violence on the rise there the land values have gone down.

I do not condone the killing, burning or destroying of any one or any thing. But anytime you use the 'all are' or 'none are' expressions you are opening yourself up to question. Very little in this world is absolute._


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## pappabee (Jun 22, 2010)

:focus:

Again IMHO if you agree that casinos are bad or that they foster corruption then by all means boycott them. If you feel gambling is bad and addictive then by all means boycott them. 

BUT, if you feel that gambling is enjoyable and you do not feel that it is a means of corruption then by all means partake of their offerings. I know many people who visit Vegas three or four times a year with a specified amount of money to spend. They have a great time, either win or loose and plan their next trip. It is their form of entertainment. 

Again, it is my opinion that visiting a casino either here or in the states is an option that each and everyone must make for themselves.


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## conorkilleen (Apr 28, 2010)

Sorry Pappa. Emotional day yesterday here in MTY with everything going on. Please except my apology for my disrespectful post about "squabbling" over the deaths.

Regrading where I get my news about the death toll from- "My sources" = Local/National news, people in the know, and word of mouth (rumors). I've seen counts of 48, 51, 52, 53, 60, and 61. I know AP is reputable, but with so many numbers flying around I decided to make a point using the highest.

Regrading the rent of 130,000 pesos a month for rent- again this was not based on fact, rather assumption. I pay 80,000 for a Bodega and Office space here in that same area. I was figuring adding another 50,000 for a large parking lot and a upscale Casino in that exact location was about right. This statement was not based on facts, more bringing up that 10.5k usd is not allot of money for a casino here. That can be made in one weekend no doubt.

There is more to the story than just the supposed "not paying the bribe so they got bombed". We all may never know the true story, but it does seem that the attacks on Casinos in Torreon, Reynosa, and Mata the last few days are somehow connected.


My whole point before it got blown way out of proportion (partially my fault) is to avoid Mexico Casinos like the plague right now.

Again, please except my apology for last nights ranting. Stating "facts" on the internet is sometimes useless. The things about the laundering and corruption is just known locally here in MTY to be true. Asking the sources to state their facts is like asking them if they can prove that the sky is blue.


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## RVGRINGO (May 16, 2007)

Hmmm. Where does the 'sky' begin, and where does 'it' end? Is 'it' really blue, or is that just our perception of something that 'it' contains?

Off topic, but intended to get your thinking about something other than casinos.


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## Detailman (Aug 27, 2011)

RVGRINGO said:


> Hmmm. Where does the 'sky' begin, and where does 'it' end? Is 'it' really blue, or is that just our perception of something that 'it' contains?
> 
> Off topic, but intended to get your thinking about something other than casinos.


RVGringo,


Finally decided to register for this site.

I follow this particular expat forum on a weekly basis and have done so for the last two years, after spending a number of months in Ajijic, with a view to a possible move. I always enjoy your posts and authoritative answers. The same holds true for some of the other senior expats who provide a wonderfful service for those contemplating a move to Mexico.

Loved your answer regarding the Casino. No, the sky is not really blue. You could say perceived as blue - which is true of so many things in life that can be looked at differently depending on viewpoint and amount of (or lack of) information. (Casino issue.)

"Of course the sky has no intrinsic color. The sky appears blue because the molecules in the air scatter light in the higher wavelengths (that is, the blue light), while lower wavelength light (that is, the light on the red end of the spectrum) goes through to the ground. So the light that get finally reflected down from the scattering is blue, therefore a blue sky. This is called Rayleigh scattering." (Not original - simply copied from another site.)


Keep up the good work.

Detailman


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## RVGRINGO (May 16, 2007)

Aw shucks! Now everybody knows.


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## conorkilleen (Apr 28, 2010)

I like RV's posts as well. He's kinda snarky...but I like snarky.


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## pappabee (Jun 22, 2010)

More information from Yahoo:


Mexican army, feds raid casinos after arson attack - Yahoo! News

Backs up a lot of what was said earlier.


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## joaquinx (Jul 3, 2010)

pappabee said:


> Backs up a lot of what was said earlier.


Extortion and not money laundering. Apparently blocking emergency exits puts them in league with andros, nightclubs, and discos.


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## conorkilleen (Apr 28, 2010)

Lets agree to disagree? I like the article. I read it before you posted it. It backs up a little of both of our stories.

I can listen and disagree where I see fit. I do not however subscribe to the thought that casinos in Mexico DO NOT launder money...especially this close to the border.


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## GnJ.in.MX (Mar 26, 2009)

*Casinos at Lake Chapala*

There are people here that actually believe that the casino/resort being built above Chula Vista Norte is going to make Lake Chapala a destination and that people will want to buy houses here and the real estate values will increase.

While that all sounds very nice and everything, I don't see that happening for a minute. There are 2 casinos in Ajijic already and they haven't done anything for real estate prices.

Some people really do look at the world thru rose coloured glasses.


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## joaquinx (Jul 3, 2010)

GnJ.in.MX said:


> There are people here that actually believe that the casino/resort being built above Chula Vista Norte is going to make Lake Chapala a destination and that people will want to buy houses here and the real estate values will increase.
> 
> While that all sounds very nice and everything, I don't see that happening for a minute. There are 2 casinos in Ajijic already and they haven't done anything for real estate prices.
> 
> Some people really do look at the world thru rose coloured glasses.


They might be trying to attract foreigners and then while they are at the resort, sell them on the advantages of living in LC. Casinos in Mexico are primarily slot machines with a little sport betting. They have card gaming but they have electronic dealers as the law forbids human dealers. Casinos alone attract locals while a resort might attract foreigners.


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