# what the hell home office?!(joppa help plz



## kbritsman (Aug 4, 2013)

hello, 

question as home office confuses the hell out of me. 

i got 2 emails today that contradict each other.

emails received at 1107am:
________________________________________________
Dear Applicant,

Your visa has been issued and printed. The package containing your passport and other relevant documents will be shipped to you later today via your chosen carrier.

Regards,

UK Visas and Immigration
British Consulate-General 
_________________________________________________

emailed received 3 min later at 1110 am:

__________________________________________________
Dear Applicant,

We regret to inform you that after careful consideration against the immigration rules, your UK visa application has been unsuccessful. Along with the return of your passport and documents, you will find enclosed a detailed notice explaining exactly why your application was refused and information on your appeal rights.

Your passport will be dispatched from the New York office and will be delivered by FEDEX Your FEDEX tracking number is blank

We encourage you to give feedback on the UK visa application process at: UKBA Visa Services Customer Survey 

This is an automated e-mail. Please do not reply. 
___________________________________________________

which is it? issued and printed? or refused? why cant the home office just be bloody straight forward. 

any advice on this? or do i have to wait till i get my passport to see which email was the wrong email sent to me?


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Unusual but not unknown.
It's very unusual for them to say in an email that you have been denied, as it has confidentiality implication.
Just wait till you get your passport back. Or send an email query to the consulate.


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## kbritsman (Aug 4, 2013)

do you know the email or number i can contact?

thank you

but whats your opinion here joppa what do you thinks happened with it?


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Any sender shown on messages received?
Possibly confused about applicants.


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## kbritsman (Aug 4, 2013)

both emails are from [email protected]

but the issued email is signed off as 

UK Visas and Immigration
British Consulate-General 

and the refused email says 

This is an automated e-mail. Please do not reply.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

If that address doesn't work, send it to [email protected] .


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## kbritsman (Aug 4, 2013)

ive wrote back to both emails the one who emailed me and the one youve requested.

asking them bassically which is it but nicely.

is this just an error on their part? cause i dont see how it can be issued and printed. and then be refused.


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## BronwynBean (Nov 20, 2012)

Eeek that is horrid!!! Let us know what the outcome was!


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## Sel (Mar 17, 2013)

have you checked the UKBA Visa Services Customer Survey? It doesn't look like a website that UKBA would make :S


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## kbritsman (Aug 4, 2013)

i clicked on it and it says "survey has ended" even though i havnt even done anything. is it a dodgy thing? i just clicked it now and now im running security things on my computer just incase. the email that had the survey on it had my fedex tracking number though. and if they screw up my fedex tracking that would be completely messed up.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

It looks like your rejection mail was a scam, a worm to spread malware. Download Malwarebytes to get rid of it.
Good news is your visa has probably been issued.


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## Sel (Mar 17, 2013)

kbritsman said:


> i clicked on it and it says "survey has ended" even though i havnt even done anything. is it a dodgy thing? i just clicked it now and now im running security things on my computer just incase. the email that had the survey on it had my fedex tracking number though. and if they screw up my fedex tracking that would be completely messed up.


It says to register. It's a bit strange if you ask me but I'm sure its nothing. You would think if it was some kind of survey it would be on the UKBA website or have it's logo. You just have to wait and see. Good Luck :fingerscrossed:


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## kbritsman (Aug 4, 2013)

thats insane. 

i mean fedex just picked up my package so im not as worried about not getting my passport as much as i get it at 1030 tomarrow as planned.

but how the hell would the scam have my fedex tracking stuff?


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## Sel (Mar 17, 2013)

that's a joke - people must be so sad.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Hack the system?


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## Sel (Mar 17, 2013)

Joppa said:


> Hack the system?


It's pretty lame what people do with their spare time.


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## kbritsman (Aug 4, 2013)

why would they do such a thing. i hope that means i have my visa then and my 1st email was correct and accepted. that would great if it was accepted but what a terrible joke to play on people. what do they get from it? do you know so i know what to watch?


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Often a scammer sends malware and then makes you buy their program to get rid of it and makes money that way. And of course their 'program' doesn't work! 
What is worrying is that the security on UKBA system isn't as tight as it should be, and once you resolve this issue, send an email to UKBA (there is a technical department listed on UKBA site) and let them know so that actions will be taken.


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## kbritsman (Aug 4, 2013)

ok so they hacked the British consulate of new york? or me? cause they used their email. sounds like a problem they should fix if its a scam.

sent this to you before you edited what you said.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Remember email isn't secure and can and has been intercepted. I don't know where the security breach occurred but UKBA should be told about it.


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## kbritsman (Aug 4, 2013)

fiances wondering does that mean we got the visa then?


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

As I said it seems that way, but hold your horses and wait till you get your passport back.


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## kbritsman (Aug 4, 2013)

thanks joppa

will let you know the outcome tomorrow morning.


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## kbritsman (Aug 4, 2013)

got my passsport today. with a refusal letter saying that i dont have strong enough ties to the USA as my job wouldn't give me a letter. 

the other thing is my passport has 2 stamps in it on 2 different pages.

the stamps are red boxes that look sort of like this

######
_________
UK

NEW YORK
_________
06/09/13

and they have a pen line drawn through them.

with my 6 digit reference number on top and what looks like dates on the bottom.

the other stamp is dated 10/09/13

so i take it thats when it was a possibility of having my visa and then they ended the visa on the 10th? or is that my visa? or was it actually refused?


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Sorry about that. We did feel that not having an employer's letter could be tricky.
You were refused all right, but I don't know what happened with your stamps. The first stamp dated 6/9/13 looks like refusal stamp, esp with a pen line drawn through (or a cross over it). I don't know what the second stamp is. What else does it say, and is it in red too?


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## kbritsman (Aug 4, 2013)

yes its a red square stamp as well looks kind of like this and its on the next page from the 1st stamp.

######
_______________
UK

NEW YORK
_______________
10/09/13


also had a line through it.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Looks like you have two refusal stamps (don't know why). 
You really need to show strong ties in US which means you need to get an official letter stating you are expected back by a certain date.
Meanwhile if you want to meet your partner, I suggest you do so in a neutral country, though a refusal stamp will raise anyone's eyebrows. US may be the safest.


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## kbritsman (Aug 4, 2013)

i have a plane ticket to go and see my fiance in the uk on monday. shes going to be at the airport if they have any needs to question us. im going on monday on the standard us visitor visa which i dont have to apply for as a us national. but if they have the need to question me they can i have nothing to hide and i just want to be with my fiance for the holidays. 

do you see a problem with me going on a normal visitor visa?

i have no problem explaining to them that both refusal stamps were in the same application process as its the truth and the dates are so close together it makes sense that they are the truth cause it would take atleast 2 weeks to re apply. 

i am going on monday regardless and i will fight to be with my fiance for the holidays and to be there for 6 months on a visitor visa that doesn't let me do anything period any way. why should i be put in a situation where i cant even visit my fiance at her home? that's ridiculous


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Bad idea, that. You run a very high risk of being turned away at UK border and put on the next flight home, with yet another refusal on your record. The reason why you failed in your application for marriage visitor visa was not showing a strong enough tie in US, fearing you may overstay and work illegally. The same risk is there when you turn up as a would-be general visitor. The moment they put your passport in the reader, the fact of your visa refusal will flash up on their screen, and you will be taken aside to be questioned in depth. 
Can you change your flight so you arrive, say, in Paris, and you arrange to meet your partner there?


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## kbritsman (Aug 4, 2013)

i cant change my flight. 

but my partner will be at the airport for when they question me in depth. 

i dont wish to work illegally in the uk. 

i wish to be with my partner for the holidays. as my application was refused which changed our original plans of getting married.

however. i can bring my last payslip to the border with me. and a phone number for them to contact hearing factual proof from my employer that i work for them as i do work for them. and anything else that i need to bring. maybe you can suggest what else i should bring? and why paris? we wouldnt be able to sneak back to her home in the uk from paris and i cant hang out with her in paris for months on end as she has children. but why paris? is the euro tunnel easier?


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

I'm afraid that won't make any difference. They won't go over the same ground that ECO did while processing your visa application, and just decide there and then whether you should be given leave to enter. And all indications are that they will probably conclude it's too risky, days after marriage visitor visa denial, to admit you as general visitor.

I suggested Paris because it's in another country, they have nothing to do with your UK visa denial and they are usually quite lenient in granting entry for 90 days, even if they may be a bit concerned about the refusal stamp. There is full border control between France and UK so there is no chance of a backdoor entry into UK.


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## kbritsman (Aug 4, 2013)

you said they would question me in depth i have no problem showing them exactly whats going on. 

how can they instantly turn me around and question me in depth?

its not like im going to be a guy who doesnt know what to say and im lieing. im going to be honest and truthful and have proof. its not my fault the eco wouldnt grant me my visa due to me working for a staffing agency who wouldnt give me a letter. but they can call them and hear that i am employed.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

But they will still in all likelihood deny you entry and put on next flight home. I have 40+ years of experience with UK immigration and this is what they do. What they will take note is the fact that an ECO working for UKBA has decided, in the last few days, you should not be issued with marriage visitor visa, which isn't a heavyweight visa like spouse visa but a special kind of visitor visa. They can look up the full report written up by ECO in NYC and find out all the ins and outs of your visa denial. So the odds are heavily stacked against you, and I urge you not to travel to UK, which will only make your situation worse. OK you lose your flights but it's better than getting another red stamp and huge problems you face when applying for another visa, such as spouse settlement.


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## kbritsman (Aug 4, 2013)

the only reason it was denied was because my employer wouldnt give me a letter. but atleast in person talking and defending my case instead of a piece of paper. i can prove to them that i do have employment to go back to to do my spouse visa as well as answer any other questions they have for me where i can prove im just a genuine person wanting to be with his partner for a few months


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## Lorelli (Jan 6, 2012)

kbritsman said:


> its not my fault the eco wouldnt grant me my visa due to me working for a staffing agency who wouldnt give me a letter. but they can call them and hear that i am employed.


Actually, the onus _is_ upon the applicant to provide the proof required by the UKBA. It's not for the ECO to bend rules around individual applications. 
If you attempt to enter and are denied, it will complicate future attempts/applications even more. Far better to take Joppa's sound advice and meet up in Europe - at least until you can supply the evidence required for the visa you need.


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## kbritsman (Aug 4, 2013)

i apreciate your opinions on this and thank you but its not do able for me to force my partner and her kids to another country when they have school and everything else for months. im pretty sure im going to go and fight my case through because for all i know they mite say ok that makes sense and let me in with just a little bit of a factual conversation its unknown you just never know. yes the eco officer denied my application for me to get married to my partner. but they didnt deny me the right to come to the uk and see my partner its normal for a relationship to see each other. heck the eco officer even denied my application twice cause he decided he wanted to screw up. thats not my screw up thats his screw up for doing it twice why should i be penalized for his mistake? 

but i do need to ask could i fly into ireland


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## kbritsman (Aug 4, 2013)

and if they ask me why am i trying to get in right after my denial. ill say look. i planned to be here for 6 months to spend time with my partner. the only difference with the stupid decision is that now i cant marry my partner thats the only difference my letter stated that i wanted to spend the holidays with my partner before returning for a spouce visa. the only difference i see is that now i cant get married and we will just have to marry int he USA when i go back to the usa then apply in which ever way we need to.


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## mehemlynn (Nov 16, 2011)

Ireland has access to UK immigration information. It isn't likely to be better there (someone else might be able to say more about Ireland, but it might just look like you are trying to get into the UK by the back door).

Nobody on this board can stop you from flying into the UK on Monday. You asked advice and will most likely only be told not to try it at this point, particularly for six months (which is a challenge even if you didn't just get denied another visa). 

M


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## kbritsman (Aug 4, 2013)

what if i changed it to 4 months? then atleast id make it to have new years with my partner even though id very sadly and very messed up to me would miss her birthday in febuary.


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## kbritsman (Aug 4, 2013)

what if i change my visit to 2 months? and then bought another plane ticket later? would that cause me problems? i mean when i went for 2 weeks a long time ago they said it was good for 6 months no matter what it didnt have a date on it for me leaving they jsut wanted me to tell them i was leaving. or 2 weeks or a month or anything else. i mean im not breaking a rule. im allowed to be there for 6 months as an american in the uk and all i want is to see my partner. its ridiculous and if they ask me about my marriage visa then i can say well im not happy about that decidion that was made but i already had the time off for it and i want to see my partner.


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## kbritsman (Aug 4, 2013)

AND the last time i showed up i left on time as i promised them. they have no reason to suspect me as i followed their rules on my visits


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## AmyD (Jan 12, 2013)

You are going to be bounced out of the country. There is very little doubt about it, especially with your entitled attitude. It is up to you to provide the evidence required; you didn't do that so they refused you. Now you're saying that you have a job, yet you're taking off six months (or four or two) to see your wife. This is not going to go over well at the airport. You're going to be questioned, a big black stamp is going in your passport, and you're going to be sent back home on the next flight.

A better idea is to meet her in another neutral country for a few days or a week, return to your home country, wait another six months, and try again. By barging in and acting so arrogant - that you're just SO SURE that they will listen to you, disregarding and disrespecting the fact that they've refused you - you're not doing yourself any favors. Seriously, listen to Joppa and the others here. Chill. Re-assess. And then try again.


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## kbrit (Jul 15, 2013)

AmyD said:


> You are going to be bounced out of the country. There is very little doubt about it, especially with your entitled attitude. It is up to you to provide the evidence required; you didn't do that so they refused you. Now you're saying that you have a job, yet you're taking off six months (or four or two) to see your wife. This is not going to go over well at the airport. You're going to be questioned, a big black stamp is going in your passport, and you're going to be sent back home on the next flight.
> 
> A better idea is to meet her in another neutral country for a few days or a week, return to your home country, wait another six months, and try again. By barging in and acting so arrogant - that you're just SO SURE that they will listen to you, disregarding and disrespecting the fact that they've refused you - you're not doing yourself any favors. Seriously, listen to Joppa and the others here. Chill. Re-assess. And then try again.


in all honesty I feel your response was slightly OTT. Obviously emotions are running sky high here, hurt , disappointment , confusion which can make anyone more ditzy than usual so do cut him some slack as no attitude is meant. We appreciate all of the advise from all of you, especially Joppa who has gone out of his way to assist us, we are grateful. the disappointment we feel no words can describe it, the wedding plans which were all paid and booked , we had little choice as we had to prove wedding plans were going ahead. My children who was looking forward to being a bridesmaid/usher that kind of thing its natural we are both hurt and hugely disappointed. We are law abiding people, his visa was refused not because of evidence not being given , it couldn't be given however it was documented and well written as to why. But that is irrelevant now. However his questions about seeing me in my country for a trip is not silly to ask, we have shelled out even more money changing plane tickets we have documented proof in place from financial to my work and his , some ECO's do get it wrong and I know the one who looked at ours did , its well documented . Thanks again like I said for all of your responses.

Regards


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

I won't repeat myself again but believe me, my advice, endorsed by other regulars here, is soundly based on experience and knowledge, not emotion or gut reaction. In the cool light of the day, I hope kbritman will realise that a little patience and self-control now will eventually pay dividend, and get the result you all want. Instead, what you are trying to do will put your prospect of being married and together even further into the distance.
I wish you the best but I fear the worst.


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## BronwynBean (Nov 20, 2012)

Is there no way he could re-apply, or appeal the decision, and send in the employment letter? Not sure if this would work the same as a refusal on a spouse visa? Is there anyway you can change your airline ticket to a later date, if you speak to the airline and explain the situation they may agree to allowing a date change?

I can imagine your disappointment, but try and re group yourself and find a way to move forward. You don't want to do something that may end up causing even more difficulties later on.


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## MacUK (Jul 3, 2012)

I really feel for you, as a refusal can be devastating for the whole family. However, I urge you to think this through and to act wisely. I waited a year to be reunited with my husband as our child and I stayed behind in my country because of the rule change. Please reconsider. I sincerely hope and wish that your plan works but from personal experience I would suggest that you wait and re-apply.
Good luck.


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## UKE90 (Nov 27, 2012)

I ****ing hate all this immigration control on non eu citizens, when all the EU people are free to cross our borders and do whatever they want. 

I am a UK citizen who has akways paid taxes and have been law abiding. Why on earth do i now have to prove that the relationship with my wife is genuine. If i had married someone from the EU it would have been fine. Bloody disgraceful. 

OP i hope your situation gets better, i really do feel for you. But i would say to take Joppa's and other peoples advise. I would feel the same as you and would want to go and fight it at the small chance they might say yes. But its a lot to risk. 

All the best


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## kbritsman (Aug 4, 2013)

Hi From the UK. I got granted my 6 months visitor visa. Brought all the paper work I said I would bring and everything went fine. Thanks Joppa for your previous help, me and my fiancé appreciate it.


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## Sel (Mar 17, 2013)

kbritsman said:


> Hi From the UK. I got granted my 6 months visitor visa. Brought all the paper work I said I would bring and everything went fine. Thanks Joppa for your previous help, me and my fiancé appreciate it.


That's fantastic news! It just goes to show what actually happens when you arrive into the UK. Enjoy your time here


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Good.
What questions did they ask? What evidence did you show? And what did they say? A full account of what happened would be of use to others.
You know that even you have 6-month leave as general or family visitor, you cannot marry in UK?


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## juhi (Jul 7, 2013)

kbritsman said:


> Hi From the UK. I got granted my 6 months visitor visa. Brought all the paper work I said I would bring and everything went fine. Thanks Joppa for your previous help, me and my fiancé appreciate it.


Bravo!!! finally you met ur partner Good wishes 
we would want to know how it went on, at the airport.


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## kbritsman (Aug 4, 2013)

when I arrived at the airport I got in my line for everyone except nationals/eu. then when it was my turn to talk to the passport control desk or whatever, I handed them my passport and my itinerary and they asked the general questions. how long you staying, what for, do you have a job to go back to. I then handed them my weeks payslip of the previous week. then I was told to sit and wait as they had enquires to make. and to cut a long story short it wasn't easy from then. they checked my bags which is normal. and they made sure I was who I was and I was officially detained. they interviewed me and all of that. they interviewed my partner over the phone not in person which I found weird and she was waiting for me in arrivals. and they basically called her when they needed questions answered and talked to me when they needed questions answered. questions like what im there for and about my job and while they were asking me questions and they were writing it all down by hand. they also told me why my marriage visa was refused. it was refused do to not having a kid or a house owned to me as a job apparently isn't a real tie to my country. and they called my fiancé quite a few times to update her on the process and asking her why they should allow me in. to which she answered ive never overstayed, and im not gonna risk over staying as it would affect our future if I was banned and after 6 hours of all that security stuff they came and got me from the detention room and told me I had good news and that they were gonna accept me in. and I said thank you and was on my way. they actually gave me a general visitor visa for 6 months. and yes we know we cant get married on it that's illegal.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Thanks. I would still advise people not to risk what you did, as it could have gone the other way depending on who was on duty and using individual judgment ('balance of probability'). Not inviting your partner in is standard procedure, as you were still landside (i.e. hadn't yet entered UK).
6 hours!
At least it turned out ok for you.


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## bradsham (Sep 18, 2013)

Yesterday I received a message which only said:

"Dear Applicant,

The package containing your passport and other relevant documents will be shipped to you later today via: FedEx 


Regards,

UK Visas and Immigration
British Consulate-General"

I'm not even sure now if I can confirm whether my visa was approved or not. Any ideas?


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Wait until you get your documents back, or if you can't, send an email query to the sender of original mail and ask if the visa has been issued or not.


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