# In Interesting Article for Future Expats to a Foreign Land



## Hound Dog (Jan 18, 2009)

This news article appeared in a regional Minnesota newspaper and was to be found on Google Mexico News this morning. I am informing the readers of this unfortunate incident not to alarm anyone but to remind those of you who may be considering living in isolation in a foreign land that there are inherent dangers in that election whether in Mexico or any other culture where you lack the support of well known family or friends. This could as easily have happened to this guy if he had moved into an isolated backwoods area in his native United States and associated with those with whom he was only marginally familiar. 


Apple Valley man beaten to death pursuing his dream in Mexico | StarTribune.com


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## Longford (May 25, 2012)

Thanks for including a link to the newspaper article. Yes, a tragic loss of life. I doubt if we'll ever know what really happened. Moving to a foreign land isn't for everyone.


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

Longford said:


> Thanks for including a link to the newspaper article. Yes, a tragic loss of life. I doubt if we'll ever know what really happened. Moving to a foreign land isn't for everyone.


It's a very sad story. One point the article mentioned was that the American had quite a bit of money and had built a flashy house in a very poor area of Jalisco, unwittingly making himself a target for crime.


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## Longford (May 25, 2012)

Isla Verde said:


> It's a very sad story. One point the article mentioned was that the American had quite a bit of money and had built a flashy house in a very poor area of Jalisco, unwittingly making himself a target for crime.


Bad news travels fast. There are so many successes which could be written about - and some of them are repeated here on this forum. There's a lot to consider when choosing a lifestyle, especially so when we're out of our 'element' in a foreign land.


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## TamiJ (Apr 8, 2010)

I know so many foreigners here in Mexico (including myself) who have lived here for years and feel perfectly safe and at peace. This is a very sad story, but fortunately this is not something that is terribly common (or else you wouldn't see as many foreigners making Mexico home).


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## Hound Dog (Jan 18, 2009)

[_QUOTE=TamiJ;1104843]I know so many foreigners here in Mexico (including myself) who have lived here for years and feel perfectly safe and at peace. This is a very sad story, but fortunately this is not something that is terribly common (or else you wouldn't see as many foreigners making Mexico home).[/QUOTE]_

We have lived in Mexico for 12 years both at Lake Chapala and in San Cristobal de Las Casas. Our homes are modest and unobtrusive and if we were wealthy, which we are not, we would not display that wealth by building homes that were ostentatious by the standards of the community in which we were settling, especially in rural Chiapas no matter how friendly and accepting our new neighbors seemed or how fluent we were in Spanish. Whether in Mexico or anywhere else in the world and no matter how sincere our motives, moving to a desperately poor area of high unemployment and builidng a sprawling homestead isolated on a primitive dirt road 30 minutes from the nearest neighbor and with no extended family or nearby law enforcement to help provide security is foolhardy. Add to that the fact that, at least in our experience, it is not typical of campesinos in Mexico, especially among the poorest or the poor, to live isolated in the country without the support of nearby family, friends and associates and when they see what they consider a filthy rich foreigner living that sort of eccentric lifestyle. there are certain among them who may wish to take advantage of this vulnerable person as did these yoiung men who beat and stabbed this unfortunate fellow to death for a pickup truck loaded with electronic paraphernalia they could never otherwise dream of owning themselves. And, these men carried out this gruesome crime right in front of the homeowners surveillance carmeras.

Think carefully before you emulate this guy.

A number of years ago we were considering a move to the Jalisco mountain town of Tapalpa not far from where this incident took place and a local Mexican homeowner was showing us his home in the center of town. He warned us that on the outside the home looked a bit shabby but not to worry as the home inside was quite luxurious and that turned out to be true. He told us then when we were relatively new to Mexico, that it was always best to present a modest face to the community no matter what lay behind closed doors. That is a good rule of thumb by which to live.


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## TamiJ (Apr 8, 2010)

Hound Dog said:


> _
> 
> 
> TamiJ said:
> ...






How close was this to Tapalpa? I love Tapalpa, by the way.


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## mickisue1 (Mar 10, 2012)

I don't think that the location was as much an issue (other than the isolation--and there are plenty of places in MX to build an isolated home) as much as the size of the home.

I saw that article this morning, and the word "sprawling" in the description hit me immediately. A sprawling home in a poor, isolated area, with no security? And, as a foreigner, inviting the people you had hired in as friends on a regular basis?

This is not to say that there's something inherently wrong in making friends of those in the trades. If so, my dad would have had a hard time--he owned a remodeling company, and most of his sub contractors became lifelong friends. But the dividing line between wealthy and not-wealthy is more distinct in MX than it (supposedly) is in the US, and he violated that line.

Sad that he gave his life for doing so.


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## joaquinx (Jul 3, 2010)

Hound Dog said:


> A number of years ago we were considering a move to the Jalisco mountain town of Tapalpa not far from where this incident took place and a local Mexican homeowner was showing us his home in the center of town. He warned us that on the outside the home looked a bit shabby but not to worry as the home inside was quite luxurious and that turned out to be true. He told us then when we were relatively new to Mexico, that it was always best to present a modest face to the community no matter what lay behind closed doors. That is a good rule of thumb by which to live.


In all the homes of Mexicans that I know, this is the case. Outside, nothing to brag about, but on the inside, yes, luxurious. Just a few doors down the street lies a beautiful house and fronting the street is a four-car garage. A few months ago, he was held for ransom for a few hours.


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## vantexan (Sep 4, 2011)

Hound Dog said:


> This news article appeared in a regional Minnesota newspaper and was to be found on Google Mexico News this morning. I am informing the readers of this unfortunate incident not to alarm anyone but to remind those of you who may be considering living in isolation in a foreign land that there are inherent dangers in that election whether in Mexico or any other culture where you lack the support of well known family or friends. This could as easily have happened to this guy if he had moved into an isolated backwoods area in his native United States and associated with those with whom he was only marginally familiar.
> 
> 
> Apple Valley man beaten to death pursuing his dream in Mexico | StarTribune.com


Ironic that Mexico is now requiring that foreigners have substantial means to get residency but having a little wealth can be risky.


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## vantexan (Sep 4, 2011)

mickisue1 said:


> I don't think that the location was as much an issue (other than the isolation--and there are plenty of places in MX to build an isolated home) as much as the size of the home.
> 
> I saw that article this morning, and the word "sprawling" in the description hit me immediately. A sprawling home in a poor, isolated area, with no security? And, as a foreigner, inviting the people you had hired in as friends on a regular basis?
> 
> ...


About 8 years ago I was working in uptown Sedona, AZ. I'm a courier, and went to a home that I had delivered to several times only to find it being swarmed by police. Couple in their 50's, very nice people who ran a business from home, were beaten to death by a contractor, his brother and employee who were doing remodeling work. Official cause blunt force trauma to head. All 3 were arrested next day while driving around in couple's expensive cars. Brother was arrested just north of Mexican border. Sedona is full of wealthy people, but discovered alot of angry ******** live in surrounding area.


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## Longford (May 25, 2012)

vantexan said:


> Ironic that Mexico is now requiring that foreigners have substantial means to get residency but having a little wealth can be risky.


I wouldn't describe the income requirements as "substantial". They're standards which are similarly asked for in other countries as well.


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## vantexan (Sep 4, 2011)

Longford said:


> I wouldn't describe the income requirements as "substantial". They're standards which are similarly asked for in other countries as well.


Guatemala, Costa Rica, Nicaragua, Panama, and Ecuador all have retiree visas available for $1000 a month or less income plus $100 to $200 per dependent. I believe Nicaragua's is $700 a month. Panama just started a program where if you are a citizen of one of 22 countries(includes U.S.) and can demonstrate any economic activity, such as starting a business or buying real estate, you can get immediate permanent residency and a cedula by depositing $5000 in a Panamanian bank plus $2000 per dependent. I've read that has been expanded to 47 countries and it does involve some time and paperwork to process.


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## Hound Dog (Jan 18, 2009)

_[QUOTE=TamiJ;1104960]
A number of years ago we were considering a move to the Jalisco mountain town of Tapalpa not far from where this incident took place and a local Mexican homeowner was showing us his home in the center of town. He warned us that on the outside the home looked a bit shabby but not to worry as the home inside was quite luxurious and that turned out to be true. He told us then when we were relatively new to Mexico, that it was always best to present a modest face to the community no matter what lay behind closed doors. That is a good rule of thumb by which to live.[/QUOTE]

How close was this to Tapalpa? I love Tapalpa, by the way.[/QUOTE]_[/I]

Yes,Tapalpa is a nice mountain town located in a high altitude valley among pines and mountain meadows with a splendid climate. It is a favorite weekend retreat for Guadalajarans and architecturally rustic and appealing. It is not that close to the area oif the crime reported that opened this thread , an area described as being about 18 miles north of Guadalajara in an isolated region with marginal access. As you know, Tamij, Tapalpa is not that isolated, is served by very good and scenic mountain roads and we seriously considered moving there from the shores of nearby Lake Chapala but chose the alpine, high mountain Jovel Valley in Chiapas instead. Both are nice places if you like high altitude living. To each his own but I would suggest that strangers moving into the isolated mountainous regions of either Jalisco or Chiapas refrain from living alone in the boonies. That is just a personal observation and you are on your own. 

This story of a seemingly decent man with good intentions, fluent in Spanish and 
sincerely embracing the local population in an isolated area meeting a violent end from an assault by local young men he had befriended and to whom he had 
provided gainful employment, reminded me of a news story that was making the rounds in 2001 big time when we first moved to Lake Chapala.

A reporter for a San Antonio, TX newspaper, I believe his name was Philip True, had taken an interest in the Huichol people inhabiting parts of extreme 
Northwestern Jalisco State in an area similarly isolated and generally perceived to be unwelcoming in places for strangers. He had taken it upon himself to hike alone in this isolated area inhabited solely by the Huichol people and rarely visited by outsiders. He had planned, I believe, to write about his adventure for his newspaper, had a genuine affection for the Huichol people and befriended those he met along the way with gifts and empathy. He was later found on a back country trail bludgeoned to death and his backpack stolen. Later, some local young men were identified as his assailants who had attacked and killed him for the contents of that backpack. This was simply a crime of opportunity and not of malice as far as I can remember and not a reflection on the Huichol community. Since that area is under indigenous law, I have no idea if these young men were ever punished for this killing and robbery and it is not uncommon in Mexico that the general public following the news is left in the dark by authorities as to the outcome of any legal action or even if there was any resulting legal action following 
a crime such as this one. In Mexico, there is the notion that one is responsible for personal actions such as hiking alone into what is generally thought of as potentially hostile territory and one pays the price for imprudence. Look at what is happening in the current case discussed above in the newspaper article out of Minnesota. The authorities investigating that murder are being vague about progress if any, the property is under lockdown and the victims personal property either stolen or impounded, an attorney is claiming entitlement to a percentage of the impounded property and the wheels of Mexican justice are grinding exceedingly slow if at all. Nothing unususal about that in these parts.


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## Longford (May 25, 2012)

Hound Dog said:


> [/I]In Mexico, there is the notion that one is responsible for personal actions such as hiking alone into what is generally thought of as potentially hostile territory and one pays the price for imprudence.


One of the ever increasing challenges independent, off-the-beaten-path, visitors and residents of Mexico face today, because of the domestic terrorism and related criminal activities, is knowing where it's safe to visit, how and when. One can get badly hurt, or worse.

One of the areas of the state of Oaxaca I enjoy is the Mixtec center of Tlaxiaco. About 2 hours 'over the mountains' from Tlaxiaco, traveling in the back of a pick-up truck, is a remote village I visited some years ago. Before the war started. I wandered about the village taking photos, talking to some people, etc. 

It was a depressing visit. The village was very poor. Most men had migrated to the USA, or elsewhere in Mexico looking for work/income. Women and children were left behind. This was at the year-end holiday period.

All of a sudden, out of nowhere, a pick-up with Utah plates came towards me driving fast. Horn blaring and man yelling from the window (in English), "Get in!". "Get in the truck, damn it." I was hesitant until he started screaming at me to get in the vehicle. So, I did. He rushed off to a house with some construction underway to enlarge it.

Turns out the man lived/worked in Salt Lake City. Returned home at year end, every year ... and continued to expand the family home where he hoped to retire to one day. He explained that 'word was out' in the village that a DEA agent (me, supposedly) was taking photos of the area, asking questions, looking for drugs, etc. He said that a group of men were on their way to either badly hurt me, or kill me. He quickly asked me a few questions about my visit then jumped back into the truck and drove off. He came back in 20 minutes and told me to stay at the house for a while before leaving for the truclk back to Tlaxiaco. And, not to take any more photos. 

I frequently wander-off the beaten path, exploring villages, visiting homes of local residents, learning/experiencing as much as I can. But it's far more dangerous to do that today than it was 10, 25- and 30 years ago. Some of the people who criticize folks asking questions about safety and security fail to recognize that not all visitors, or residents, stick to the gated AI hotels or housing sub-divisions. Many of us actually enjoy seeiing Mexico 'up close and personal.' And current and accurate information about the war, terrorism and other criminal activity is crucial to effective trip planning.


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## Hound Dog (Jan 18, 2009)

[_QUOTE=Longford;1106030]One of the ever increasing challenges independent, off-the-beaten-path, visitors and residents of Mexico face today, because of the domestic terrorism and related criminal activities, is knowing where it's safe to visit, how and when. One can get badly hurt, or worse.

One of the areas of the state of Oaxaca I enjoy is the Mixtec center of Tlaxiaco. About 2 hours 'over the mountains' from Tlaxiaco, traveling in the back of a pick-up truck, is a remote village I visited some years ago. Before the war started. I wandered about the village taking photos, talking to some people, etc. 

It was a depressing visit. The village was very poor. Most men had migrated to the USA, or elsewhere in Mexico looking for work/income. Women and children were left behind. This was at the year-end holiday period.

All of a sudden, out of nowhere, a pick-up with Utah plates came towards me driving fast. Horn blaring and man yelling from the window (in English), "Get in!". "Get in the truck, damn it." I was hesitant until he started screaming at me to get in the vehicle. So, I did. He rushed off to a house with some construction underway to enlarge it.

Turns out the man lived/worked in Salt Lake City. Returned home at year end, every year ... and continued to expand the family home where he hoped to retire to one day. He explained that 'word was out' in the village that a DEA agent (me, supposedly) was taking photos of the area, asking questions, looking for drugs, etc. He said that a group of men were on their way to either badly hurt me, or kill me. He quickly asked me a few questions about my visit then jumped back into the truck and drove off. He came back in 20 minutes and told me to stay at the house for a while before leaving for the truclk back to Tlaxiaco. And, not to take any more photos. 

I frequently wander-off the beaten path, exploring villages, visiting homes of local residents, learning/experiencing as much as I can. But it's far more dangerous to do that today than it was 10, 25- and 30 years ago. Some of the people who criticize folks asking questions about safety and security fail to recognize that not all visitors, or residents, stick to the gated AI hotels or housing sub-divisions. Many of us actually enjoy seeiing Mexico 'up close and personal.' And current and accurate information about the war, terrorism and other criminal activity is crucial to effective trip planning.[/QUOTE]_

A good and instructive story, Longford.

My wife works closely with many artisan friends among the indigenous of Chiapas, especially in the highlands around San Cristobal and I usually go along with her on these sojourns into the back country as her driiver and companion but am, at times, left alone in this or that indigenous village in the outback while she conducts business with her associates. There I am, an unknown, rather large and pale skinned stranger perhaps in our vehicle with Jalisco plates and to say that I am, in those curcumstances, a somewhat conspicuous and curious sight is an understatement. Strangers with no obvious business can become objects of community suspicion for no apparent reason and rumors of child kidnappers or government agents lurking about can start and grow out of control very quickly.

One day a few months ago I was sitting in our car on a street in a small Zapatista village in the highlands while my wife met a few blocks away with members of an iron working coop in the village when, out of the clear blue, I found myself the object of attention of village children who had just been let out of the local school which I had inadvertently parked adjacent to while waiting for her return. The kids were just horsing around pretending to be alarmed at the presence of this huge extarnjero but I have lived here long enough to recognize that as a volatile situation similar to one that had left two Mexican DEA agents lynched by townspeople after taking photographs at a high school in another indigenous town. Nothing ever happened that day but the mninute I discerned the situation I was in I hightailed it out of there and joined my wife at her meeting where local townspeople could attest to my innocence. 

The people of the Chiapas Highlands can be among the nicest and most hospitalble to strangers one can imagine but always respect their customs and take care not to be misunderstood, especially in the act of taking photos without specific permission in the presence of the locals who were authorized to give that permission. Remember that these folks have been mistreated for hundreds of years and have reason to be suspicious of strangers. Act accordingly.


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## mickisue1 (Mar 10, 2012)

Keep in mind that death in isolated areas isn't exclusive to MX. I vividly remember the case of two women who were hiking the Appalachian Trail and were raped and murdered.

A woman, an experienced hiker, was tortured, raped and murdered with a knife, and her boyfriend killed with a gun, along the trail.

That's just some--the trails system doesn't compile statistics for violent crime on national trails. Backpackers are not usually armed, and they certainly are not demonstrating conspicuous consumption.

One thing is certain, though--unless you plan to have bodyguards and heavy security, it's a mistake to flaunt your wealth, even if it's just comparative wealth, anywhere in the world.


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## Hound Dog (Jan 18, 2009)

[_QUOTE=mickisue1;1106088]Keep in mind that death in isolated areas isn't exclusive to MX. I vividly remember the case of two women who were hiking the Appalachian Trail and were raped and murdered.

A woman, an experienced hiker, was tortured, raped and murdered with a knife, and her boyfriend killed with a gun, along the trail.

That's just some--the trails system doesn't compile statistics for violent crime on national trails. Backpackers are not usually armed, and they certainly are not demonstrating conspicuous consumption.

One thing is certain, though--unless you plan to have bodyguards and heavy security, it's a mistake to flaunt your wealth, even if it's just comparative wealth, anywhere in the world.[/QUOTE]_

I remember that Appalachian Trail incident even though I lived in Mexico at the time. There was a fiend preying on vulnerable hikers and there is no way to guard againt maniacs along the way in life who could as easily prey upon you in a grammar school in Connecticut or a shopping mall in Oregon as well as along the Appalachian Trail in the remote wilderness. 

Remember the moron who murdered all those kids in Norway just because they were attending an island camp he thought leftist oriented and favoring liberalized immigration policies in that Scandanavian Country and remember that where ever you may be in this life, sanity and insanity are fluid concepts.

Random violence which could be experienced anywhere on the planet cannot be avoided. The purpose of my posting the terrible news story out of Minnesota was not to call attention to random violence anywhere in the world but to alert newcomers to Mexico or, for that matter, to Tanzania or Nepal or Alabama to tread lightly into that new milieu until you at least understand how not to inadvertently offend those you wish to befriend. 

Being naive does not deserve the death penalty but that does not bring our Minnesota friend back and nothing will.


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