# Mexico's military



## Zorro2017 (Jan 9, 2017)

All males are required to participate in a lottery for service in the military. My wife's son had to go to a military "school" once a week every Saturday for a year to fulfill his obligation. The population is just too large to absorb all males into the military once they become eighteen but this is Mexico's way of assuring they have an adequate military.

My question is *can a person volunteer to serve*? I have researched it but can't really find an answer except that women can volunteer, this was to boost the number of women in the service.

Before the forum wisenheimers chime in, no, I'm not looking to join the army. The kids in our small village have hopes and dreams like all kids but the opportunities just don't exist nor does the money for them to buy the clothes then get the transportation to the city to look for work. The sad reality is that they will wind up chopping sugar cane twice a year like all of their ancestors and live in poverty. At least in the military they could learn an occupation and have a pension. 

The Mexican military has planes, vehicles and ships. Training is the key for these kids to advance, someone has to repair the equipment and my wife's dentist was trained in the army.


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## ojosazules11 (Nov 3, 2013)

Yes, young people can voluntarily join the military as a career. The husband of one of my nieces did just that. He’s been with the military for several years now, straight out of high school. My neighbour boy is considering the same. They are quite poor, and he thinks it would give him better prospects than the casual manual labour his parents and grandparents do to get by.


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## Zorro2017 (Jan 9, 2017)

ojosazules11 said:


> Yes, young people can voluntarily join the military as a career. The husband of one of my nieces did just that. He’s been with the military for several years now, straight out of high school. My neighbour boy is considering the same. They are quite poor, and he thinks it would give him better prospects than the casual manual labour his parents and grandparents do to get by.


Thank you Ojosazules, the only other prospect is the Federales or other branch of the police which is a lot more dangerous with cartel activity. We will encourage the parents to consider this and encourage the kids not to quit school so they can live a better life. It is no problem driving them to a recruiting office or whatever they call it here.

The air force has large planes and trainers, they can go as far as their drive and motivation takes them if they apply themselves. Imagine going from the cane fields to becoming a pilot.


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## ElPocho (Aug 25, 2017)

Military service is required for all men at the age of 18. For those who do have to do it it's called "marchar". They have the kids March for 2-3 hours once a week for a year. After which you get your "cartilla de servicio militar".
I don't even think they get to fire a rifle.

The very poor enlist as a means to support themselves. 

If you are middle class you can go to the military academy, you need connections. 

There is an academy for each force. These are officer schools. I knew people from both the Army and Navy.


Judicial Federal may of had changed, but I had a friend who's interview went along "would you kill someone or do you have corazón de pollo?". He had a very interesting story about his "ride along" especially the helicopter ride. 

The Zetas started out as military, got special training and then went into service as police. 

There are other police forces that are paramilitary, they pull from Army. 

Federal de Caminos has its own School. 



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## UrbanMan (Jun 18, 2015)

ElPocho said:


> Judicial Federal may of had changed, but I had a friend who's interview went along "would you kill someone or do you have corazón de pollo?". He had a very interesting story about his "ride along" especially the helicopter ride.


Back in my teen years, I considered the military, going as far as to go through what at the time was called pre-enlistment steps (this in my native Canada, it was screening for entry into an officer program).

They asked me "the kill" question. My impression is it is common. It is the military, not the place for you if you absolutely cannot kill regardless of circumstance.

In my case, the pre-enlistment program involved them putting me (along with a few dozen others) in a mini basic training for week. THAT convinced me the military was not for me.


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## ElPocho (Aug 25, 2017)

UrbanMan said:


> Back in my teen years, I considered the military, going as far as to go through what at the time was called pre-enlistment steps (this in my native Canada, it was screening for entry into an officer program).
> 
> They asked me "the kill" question. My impression is it is common. It is the military, not the place for you if you absolutely cannot kill regardless of circumstance.
> 
> In my case, the pre-enlistment program involved them putting me (along with a few dozen others) in a mini basic training for week. THAT convinced me the military was not for me.


In Fernando's case he actually go to see the kill part first hand. He rode in the first helicopter, that one would clear the field. They opened up a window put the m16 out and shot anyone within 150 meters of the field. He said they got an old lady running. Then the second helicopter rigged to spray paraquat came down real low and slow.
This was in guerrero around 1980. Fernando didn't follow through, and married the daughter of a politician in Jalapa.

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## Zorro2017 (Jan 9, 2017)

We had the family or families over for burgers yesterday and presented the idea of the military to the father, I was pleasantly surprised that he was all for the idea and even receptive to the kids becoming Federales which we discouraged but after a lifetime of poverty chopping cane the police look pretty good to him. Now the boys want to be Marines.


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## eastwind (Jun 18, 2016)

I think they can also enlist in the US army, get better pay and ultimately citizenship.


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## Zorro2017 (Jan 9, 2017)

eastwind said:


> I think they can also enlist in the US army, get better pay and ultimately citizenship.


It's pretty difficult to get a visa, even if you have the money which they don't. The military is probably the best option for the poor here. I was surprised to learn that the Air Force here has over 250 large planes and training planes as well. Even becoming a mechanic beats chopping cane twice a year.


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## ElPocho (Aug 25, 2017)

Zorro2017 said:


> It's pretty difficult to get a visa, even if you have the money which they don't. The military is probably the best option for the poor here. I was surprised to learn that the Air Force here has over 250 large planes and training planes as well. Even becoming a mechanic beats chopping cane twice a year.


IMHO You can't become an pilot without an education and contacts. A pilot is an officer. 

The most respected branch is La Marina, the Navy. 




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## Zorro2017 (Jan 9, 2017)

:scared:


ElPocho said:


> IMHO You can't become an pilot without an education and contacts. A pilot is an officer.
> 
> The most respected branch is La Marina, the Navy.
> 
> ...


The Navy is the most difficult branch to qualify for. I know they will probably never be a pilot but in our community the poverty is unbelievable, any training they can receive beats what they have to look forward to here. They also recieve a pension I believe after 5 years. If we are still alive we will take them to the recruiter when they come of age. Even cars are rare here with most families getting by with a motorcycle.


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## ElPocho (Aug 25, 2017)

Zorro2017 said:


> :scared:
> 
> The Navy is the most difficult branch to qualify for. I know they will probably never be a pilot but in our community the poverty is unbelievable, any training they can receive beats what they have to look forward to here. They also recieve a pension I believe after 5 years. If we are still alive we will take them to the recruiter when they come of age. Even cars are rare here with most families getting by with a motorcycle.


The Navy is the best service in Mexico. That's why they use them against the Narcos. It is true to it's core values. Or at least it was 30 years ago.

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## Zorro2017 (Jan 9, 2017)

ElPocho said:


> The Navy is the best service in Mexico. That's why they use them against the Narcos. It is true to it's core values. Or at least it was 30 years ago.
> 
> Sent from my moto x4 using Tapatalk


Is it true that there is a height requirement?


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## ElPocho (Aug 25, 2017)

Zorro2017 said:


> Is it true that there is a height requirement?


That would make sense. They are bigger. I'd also think a little more education than the army. 

They are definitely a notch above. 

There is a movie I think it's called El Infierno. It's about a mojado that goes back. In the plot a couple of army folks are hired to help the good Narcos. 
It seems dead on with stereotypes of army. They are Indian, speak Spanish as a second language. Very short. The army makes them mean. A lot of them come from Oaxaca.

Watch the movie. 



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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

ElPocho said:


> That would make sense. They are bigger. I'd also think a little more education than the army.
> 
> They are definitely a notch above.
> 
> ...


"Good Narcos"? Please explain, ElPocho.


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## ElPocho (Aug 25, 2017)

Isla Verde said:


> "Good Narcos"? Please explain, ElPocho.


It's Mexico... LOL

One of the best was Camelia la Tejana. That started the whole process of romantizing that Archetype. Almost an extension of Pancho Villa. A little bit of Robin Hood, defiant of authority in the face off corruption, and with a death wish mixed in with a little machismo.

From the perspective of the lower class, the marginalized, Narcos are defiant and somewhat free. 

Plus they are the ones that kill the Judiciales... It's funny the good guys kill the cops. Surrealistic. 

Watch the movie, it's good. A little raw. 

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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

ElPocho said:


> It's Mexico... LOL
> 
> One of the best was Camelia la Tejana. That started the whole process of romantizing that Archetype. Almost an extension of Pancho Villa. A little bit of Robin Hood, defiant of authority in the face off corruption, and with a death wish mixed in with a little machismo.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the review and comments, ElP. I find it sad that some people's lives are so miserable that they have to look for heroes among the narcos. By the way, both the "good" and the bad ones often excuse their way of life by giving things to the poor of their communities - kind of what the political parties do to get votes!


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

ElPocho said:


> That would make sense. They are bigger. I'd also think a little more education than the army.
> 
> They are definitely a notch above.
> 
> ...


_El Infierno_ is a good movie. Damien Alcazar is the lead as Bennie. It is a nice combination of some humor while still treating a serious subject in a serious and educational way. It contains ome insight into why people may be recruited into the cartels in spite of the obvious danger.


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## ElPocho (Aug 25, 2017)

TundraGreen said:


> _El Infierno_ is a good movie. Damien Alcazar is the lead as Bennie. It is a nice combination of some humor while still treating a serious subject in a serious and educational way. It contains ome insight into why people may be recruited into the cartels in spite of the obvious danger.


I agree. Good movies IMHO are generally social commentaries without being too apparent. They kind of slowly sink in
It was disturbing, but good.
The lead actor was great. His character evolved (or devolved) in a very credible way.

They did touch on the corrido factor in the movie which was good. 


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## Zorro2017 (Jan 9, 2017)

From what I understand many leave the military and then are recruited into the cartels, or are recruited by the cartel and then leave the military after learning how to use and care for a weapon. They also learn tactics. 

I don't know what they earn here in our community but it is pitiful. The cane is only harvested twice a year so that is when the work takes place and I'm sure the pay is pitiful. Augustine, our neighbor hunts for mushrooms in the mountains to make a little money and they don't hesitate to dig through trash for aluminum cans which very few throw away. Considering this, the money made working with the cartels is probably pretty enticing. 

They do have public relations campaigns ongoing though as this article shows, it is a little dated but there are more recent ones such as this one about the gas situation.

https://thesocietypages.org/trot/2017/02/10/mexican-cartels-as-community-heroes/

Here is the older story.



Mexico drug cartels helping with storm relief


PUBLISHED: September 24, 2013 at 12:00 am | UPDATED: August 28, 2017 at 8:06 am
MEXICO CITY, Mexico — As stricken communities dig out from the one-two punch of tropical cyclones that hit Mexico’s coasts last week, organized crime has been pitching in.

The Gulf Cartel, the drug-trafficking organization that controls much of the country’s northeast, is believed to have dispensed food, water and medical supplies to a rural town slammed by Hurricane Ingrid in Tamaulipas state.

A YouTube video local media attributed to the drug gang appears to show its aid effort.

“This is how the Gulf Cartel fulfilled the mission,” a message at the end of the rap-accompanied video says shortly before an image of a smiling Jesus Christ flashes on the screen.

Storm relief fits perfectly into Mexican gangsters’ long-practiced public relations campaigns, many of them carried on YouTube and other social media. The powerful drug gangs strive to present themselves as the “good bad guys,” interested only in smuggling narcotics to consumers in the United States while leaving Mexican communities in peace.


Former Gulf Cartel boss Osiel Cardenas, now serving a long sentence in a US federal prison, for years has paid for annual toy giveaways in communities where the gang reigns. The cartel and other warring gangs routinely hang banners in battleground communities, assuring residents of their good intentions and vowing to go after criminals preying on the locals.

“We don’t kidnap or murder innocents,” read banners recently strung up in western Mexico and signed by the Jalisco Cartel-New Generation. That group claimed credit two years ago for murdering 35 supposed members of the bloody Zetas gang and dumping their bodies on a busy street in the port of Veracruz. The gang vowed to “clean up” the city on behalf of citizens.

It’s likely, if still unclear, if similar post-cyclone good works are under way in northwestern Sinaloa state, where Hurricane Manuel landed late last week, flooding coastal towns and cities and dropping inches of rain deep inside the marijuana and opium poppy-producing Sierra Madre.

Sinaloa is the turf of supposed uber-gangster Joaquin “El Chapo” Guzman and many other major Mexican traffickers. Chapo’s faction of the so-called Sinaloa Cartel has been a war with rivals in recent months for control of much of the northern half of the state.

The Gulf Cartel’s alleged relief effort came as President Enrique Peña Nieto toured the stricken areas of Mexico’s Pacific coast, where Manual’s deluge caused most of last week’s death and destruction.

Some 115 people have been confirmed killed by the dual storms, most of them in impoverished Guerrero state. The body count continues to rise amid relief work in communities isolated by road collapses and mudslides.

Peña Nieto said Saturday there was scant hope of finding nearly 70 people who remain missing after a mudslide in the mountain village of La Pintada, about 30 miles northwest of the badly flooded resort city of Acapulco. At least 18 bodies were pulled from the mud in La Pintada last week.

On Sunday, Mexican officials announced that the relief effort and rebuilding would inflate the 2014 federal budget, which already is under scrutiny because a proposed fiscal reform seeks to increase social spending while raising taxes on the wealthy and middle class.

The Red Cross and other groups are collecting tons of food, clothing and other aid for storm around the country. But the Mexican media reports that much of the aid so far has failed to reach some of the hardest hit areas.

No worries, the friendly neighborhood gangsters stand at the ready.

“They have been good people, in good times and bad in Aldama,” say messages that appear on the screen as the camera pans the food being handed out. “If they are helping, it’s because they have heart.”

Mexico drug cartels helping with storm relief – Daily News


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## ojosazules11 (Nov 3, 2013)

I’ve read several articles about a difference between the older cartels and their leaders, like El Chapo, who do provide assistance in many forms to poor communities to win “hearts and minds” (and, I suspect, a steady stream of young, impressionable recruits who have no idea what they’re really getting into). The newer cartels, specifically the Zetas, do not have a “soft and fuzzy” side. They are brutal. Do what we say or suffer the consequences. No need to win hearts and minds, just obedience and silence (and extortion money).


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## ElPocho (Aug 25, 2017)

Zorro actually most start working for the cartels when they are in the military. Guarding airstrips, even killing 

The military were involved in a mass killing. According to one version, which makes sense...
Regarding the 42 students, it seems that they hijacked two buses with an important shipment. 
The military stepped in, stopped the buses to recover the packages. Somehow the cat got out of the bag, and the cleanup was a huge blunder, since it was done military style. 

Things have been rough in Guerrero since the 70's. 



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## ElPocho (Aug 25, 2017)

ojosazules11 said:


> I’ve read several articles about a difference between the older cartels and their leaders, like El Chapo, who do provide assistance in many forms to poor communities to win “hearts and minds” (and, I suspect, a steady stream of young, impressionable recruits who have no idea what they’re really getting into). The newer cartels, specifically the Zetas, do not have a “soft and fuzzy” side. They are brutal. Do what we say or suffer the consequences. No need to win hearts and minds, just obedience and silence (and extortion money).


The zetas are ex army. Trained in the USA. All business. They went rogue...
None of the "charm" of Pancho Villa sticking it to the Gringos.


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## Zorro2017 (Jan 9, 2017)

ojosazules11 said:


> I’ve read several articles about a difference between the older cartels and their leaders, like El Chapo, who do provide assistance in many forms to poor communities to win “hearts and minds” (and, I suspect, a steady stream of young, impressionable recruits who have no idea what they’re really getting into). The newer cartels, specifically the Zetas, do not have a “soft and fuzzy” side. They are brutal. Do what we say or suffer the consequences. No need to win hearts and minds, just obedience and silence (and extortion money).


The first story I linked to was February 2017. No doubt the cartels are still making money from the stolen gasoline though.Mexico had as much gasoline stolen last year through illegal taps on the pipelines.

The selling of Mexico’s nationalized oil company has caused gas shortages and rising gas prices, sparking nationwide protest. In the midst of “El Gasonlinazo,” unlikely heroes have stepped forward to fight for affordable gasoline — Mexican drug cartels. The cartels are threatening to burn gas stations, specifically those run by foreign companies, and they have started stealing oil and selling it back to Mexican citizens for a lower cost. They claim that it is a disservice to the people of Mexico to make them pay such high prices for gas, especially when many do not even make a living wage.

It is not unusual for individuals or groups with a negative image to present themselves in the best way possible through “impression management,” and drug cartels are no exception. Past research shows that developing an image of being helpful to the community helps cartels and gangs to garner legitimacy and respect. In Mexico, there is a long tradition of rebel groups acting in the name of the community, for example, the Zapatistas portrayed themselves as liberators, rather than criminals, in their fight against globalization.


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## TurtleToo (Aug 23, 2013)

> . . . the Zapatistas portrayed themselves as liberators, rather than criminals, in their fight against globalization.


I would suggest that there is little comparison between political groups who perform acts that may be criminal, and criminal groups who perform acts that are political (or humanitarian.)

.


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## Zorro2017 (Jan 9, 2017)

TurtleToo said:


> I would suggest that there is little comparison between political groups who perform acts that may be criminal, and criminal groups who perform acts that are political (or humanitarian.)
> 
> .


With over half of Congress being millionaires I'd suggest there is little difference between politicians and criminals.


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

The Zapatistas brought in changes in Chiapas that needed to happen, they are not criminals. They are not worst than Pri and their paramilitary groups or other parties.
They fought for their rights and hep bring changes. 
They are not criminals but campesinos trying to improve their lives. 

You may agree or not with their politics or they way of life but all in all they are people like anyone else. I had a meeting with a Zapatista governor today as a matter of fact and I saw no gun, no violence, no mask or propaganda... amazing what you see when the press is not around..


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

So because politicians are rich that makes them criminals?


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## AlanMexicali (Jun 1, 2011)

Zorro2017

"The selling of Mexico’s nationalized oil company has caused gas shortages and rising gas prices, sparking nationwide protest."


Mexico did not sell Pemex [PRD misinformation]. It allowed partnerships with Pemex from the private sector but all of Pemex and most of the products/gas, oil, plasitic, petrol chemicals etc. and production/refineries and distribution/pipelines etc. already in place is still owned by Mexico.


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## AlanMexicali (Jun 1, 2011)

TurtleToo said:


> I would suggest that there is little comparison between political groups who perform acts that may be criminal, and criminal groups who perform acts that are political (or humanitarian.)
> 
> .





Zorro2017 said:


> With over half of Congress being millionaires I'd suggest there is little difference between politicians and criminals.



If over 1/2 of the Congress are millionaires [is that a known fact?] because they stold government funds [or got rich by actually being criminals] then this insinuation which is a hasty judgement [logical falacy = untrue] then you are excluding the possibility they were already millionaires through business or inheritance like most politicians in most countires are and have been since democracy began.

Your denigration of some Mexicans seems to be included in your perception of Mexicans in Mexico in statements like this but has no basis in fact only your speculations and experiences. IMO


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## Zorro2017 (Jan 9, 2017)

AlanMexicali said:


> Zorro2017
> 
> "The selling of Mexico’s nationalized oil company has caused gas shortages and rising gas prices, sparking nationwide protest."
> 
> ...


Splitting that hair a little thin aren't you? "Allowed partnerships from the private sector" means that they sold the government owned company to private interests. It was bankrupt, do a search and you will find..

Mexican President Enrique Peña Nieto proposed historic changes to this nation’s state-run energy sector Monday, cracking open the door for global oil giants such as Exxon Mobil and Shell to invest in Mexico’s lethargic 75-year-old state oil monopoly, Pemex, the eighth-largest oil company in the world and a symbol of deep nationalist pride.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...06b928603b2_story.html?utm_term=.0670f2eff4ae

"Invest in" in other words,* buy into* so in that respect yes, the once government owned company is no longer government owned. It is in hock up to the eyeballs. To say that the refineries and pipelines "are still owned by Mexico" when the company just sold 4 billion in bonds isn't quite accurate.


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## Zorro2017 (Jan 9, 2017)

AlanMexicali said:


> If over 1/2 of the Congress are millionaires [is that a known fact?] because they stold government funds [or got rich by actually being criminals] then this insinuation which is a hasty judgement [logical falacy = untrue] then you are excluding the possibility they were already millionaires through business or inheritance like most politicians in most countires are and have been since democracy began.
> 
> Your denigration of some Mexicans seems to be included in your perception of Mexicans in Mexico in statements like this but has no basis in fact only your speculations and experiences. IMO


I get it Alan, you don't like me or my political views so you try to pick an argument with me at every turn. There is a very useful feature on this forum, it is called the "ignore" feature. I utilize it, just put me on your ignore list and you won't see my comments. 

Again do a search and you will find that over half of congress are millionaires. To deny the fact that lobbyists and politicians are in bed together is beyond naive, they invest all right, with a lot of inside information. The salary is $174,000 a year, my son and his wife pull that much in and yes, they have toys and live well, but they are far from millionaires, especially when you remove the cost of living, raising kids, etc. You just keep on believing that congressmen are getting rich honestly if you wish, personally I don't care.

"Your denigration of some Mexicans seems to be included in your perception of Mexicans in Mexico in statements like this but has no basis in fact only your speculations and experiences." 

That politicians are crooked was my statement, how is that remotely denigrating to Mexicans? Perhaps my Mexican wife can explain to me my perception of Mexicans in Mexico while we live here in Mexico. You are trying to paint me with a brush of your own making.

Life is way too short for this, please just put me on ignore, neither one of us are going to suddenly change our views and this forum could be better served by things other than you and I bickering, things such as asking "Can a young person volunteer for the military in Mexico even though they have a lottery?"


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## AlanMexicali (Jun 1, 2011)

Zorro2017 said:


> Splitting that hair a little thin aren't you? "Allowed partnerships from the private sector" means that they sold the government owned company to private interests. It was bankrupt, do a search and you will find..
> 
> Mexican President Enrique Peña Nieto proposed historic changes to this nation’s state-run energy sector Monday, cracking open the door for global oil giants such as Exxon Mobil and Shell to invest in Mexico’s lethargic 75-year-old state oil monopoly, Pemex, the eighth-largest oil company in the world and a symbol of deep nationalist pride.
> 
> ...



Pemex sells US$4 billion in bonds - OE Digital

"The Mexican state-led company is offering seven-year bonds at a yield of 4.62%, and the 30-year bonds at 6.75%.

Newman said that Pemex also used $1.5 billion to buy back bonds that come due in 2018 and 2019, and the remainder of around $2.5 billion will go toward 2017 financing needs."


https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...-billion-sale-leaseback-sources-idUSKCN0Z22QC


"Pemex [PEMX.UL], which has suffered from a prolonged oil rout, will sell some of its infrastructure assets to the fund, but will continue to operate and maintain them for 15 years and pay rent to KKR. Pemex plans to repurchase the assets after the lease ends, one of the sources said, speaking on condition of anonymity.

It has also received some $4.2 billion in a cash injection from the federal government."


Pemex Bonds are not stock bonds but closer to government term investment bonds [Government owned company] If you buy them you own nothing of the government´s assets.

Not that hard to follow.


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## AlanMexicali (Jun 1, 2011)

Zorro2017 said:


> I get it Alan, you don't like me or my political views so you try to pick an argument with me at every turn. There is a very useful feature on this forum, it is called the "ignore" feature. I utilize it, just put me on your ignore list and you won't see my comments.
> 
> Again do a search and you will find that over half of congress are millionaires. To deny the fact that lobbyists and politicians are in bed together is beyond naive, they invest all right, with a lot of inside information. The salary is $174,000 a year, my son and his wife pull that much in and yes, they have toys and live well, but they are far from millionaires, especially when you remove the cost of living, raising kids, etc. You just keep on believing that congressmen are getting rich honestly if you wish, personally I don't care.
> 
> ...


Not likely; then you have free reign to blurt out anything that comes to mind and if another poster/s without me around doesn´t comment your comments will be read by everyone and some people may be fooled. Better you put me on ingore and that way I will be the one with special entitlement. I prefer the later. :confused2:

Moderators: It might be time to lock this thread.


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

AlanMexicali said:


> Not likely; then you have free reign to blurt out anything that comes to mind and if another poster/s without me around doesn´t comment your comments will be read by everyone and some people may be fooled. Better you put me on ingore and that way I will be the one with special entitlement. I prefer the later. :confused2:
> 
> Moderators: It might be time to lock this thread.


No need for that if the anger level of the comments calms down.


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## Zorro2017 (Jan 9, 2017)

AlanMexicali said:


> Not likely; then you have free reign to blurt out anything that comes to mind and if another poster/s without me around doesn´t comment your comments will be read by everyone and some people may be fooled. Better you put me on ingore and that way I will be the one with special entitlement. I prefer the later. :confused2:
> 
> Moderators: It might be time to lock this thread.


Yes, by all means we need you to keep me in line lest I go around fooling people. I tire of arguing with you because you are often in denial of the facts and refuse to admit when you are wrong. Pemex is no longer a totally government owned company, you are very selective in what you believe but being as you chose Reuters for a source...

Efforts by Mexico’s state-owned oil company Pemex to attract about $5 billion in capital to help modernize its two largest refineries so far have proved futile, according to two people familiar with the process who declined to be named because they were not authorized to speak publicly.

The company is seeking a joint venture partner for its Salina Cruz refinery on the West Coast. It’s also looking for an investor to complete construction of a coking unit to process heavy crude at its Tula refinery just north of Mexico’s capital.

Among those to rebuff overtures from Pemex over the past year are U.S. refining giants Valero Energy Corp (VLO.N) and Tesoro Corp TSO.N, the people said.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...-its-refineries-but-whos-buying-idUSKBN1810JT


The effects of the legislation are not apparent so much because the price of oil tanked but according to your own CNN...

Still, the oil crash has dealt a big blow to Mexico's efforts to end Pemex's monopoly on the Mexican oil business. *Reforms passed in 2013 under President Enrique Pena Nieto tried to encourage private investment, but little new production has come of it so far.
"It just happened that Mexico decided to open up its energy sector at the worst possible time," said Glossop.*

Mexico forced to rescue drowning oil giant Pemex - Apr. 14, 2016

Yet another source...

*Pemex is considering offering to the private sector up to six of its refineries to obtain some liquidity for its financial restructuring. As announced by Pemex’s CEO, José Antonio González Anaya,* estimated individual transaction values may range from US$500 million to US$1.5 billion per refinery. The six refineries are currently operating at a collective, estimated annual loss of MX$100 billion (approximately US$5.8 billion). Pemex is considering various structures for these transactions, including straight sale, sale-leaseback arrangements with private equity funds, and joint ventures. Pemex’s divestiture of these refineries would create an opportunity for upstream and midstream private sector participants vertically to integrate their operations in Mexico.

Pemex Considering Sale of Refineries to Private Investors | News | Haynes and Boone, LLP

We can do this all day but what is the point? You refuse to accept any sources of information that are not of your choosing.


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## Zorro2017 (Jan 9, 2017)

I suggest you start another thread about Pemex if you wish to continue to argue about it. It is pointless to discuss this with you any further as you refuse to believe anything that you don't want to believe.


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## AlanMexicali (Jun 1, 2011)

Zorro2017 said:


> Yes, by all means we need you to keep me in line lest I go around fooling people. I tire of arguing with you because you are often in denial of the facts and refuse to admit when you are wrong. Pemex is no longer a totally government owned company, you are very selective in what you believe but being as you chose Reuters for a source...
> 
> Efforts by Mexico’s state-owned oil company Pemex to attract about $5 billion in capital to help modernize its two largest refineries so far have proved futile, according to two people familiar with the process who declined to be named because they were not authorized to speak publicly.
> 
> ...


I read the articles. You are trying to concoct a story that if Pemex sells, for example, the 5 outdated refineries to the private sector that these private sector companies now own a percentage of Pemex and it´s assets not in the deal for the 5 refineries as you state Pemex is not 100% owned by Pemex now when in reality Pemex is simply trying to sell unproductive refineries to gain capital to invest in modern refineries.

How is Pemex not owned by Pemex anymore in any scenario presented in all the articles you posted and the 2 that I posted. Please tell me, I really want to understand how this is possible. :confused2:

Or is it not posible and that you don´t understand business´ asset liquidation or partnership investments, example 1/2 Pemex and 1/2 private sector company for a specific project? In your comments you seem to insinuate these private sector companies partnerships allow these companies some ownership of Pemex and a percentage of their assets?

Or is Pemex still a government owned company with all it´s assets owned by them except where they have a partnership deal on specific projets where they share profits for that project and no other part of Pemex assets or profits are shared by private sector companies?

In conclusión Pemex is still 100% owned by Mexico. :smile:


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## AlanMexicali (Jun 1, 2011)

Isla Verde said:


> No need for that if the anger level of the comments calms down.


I don´t want to spend anymore time explaining to Zorro he has all this Pemex stuff so confused in his head he might end up blowing a gasket if he tries to sit down and actually figure out what all these articles are stating. 

I would like to see the thread locked for reasons of futile bantering. Please.


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

AlanMexicali said:


> I don´t want to spend anymore time explaining to Zorro he has all this Pemex stuff so confused in his head he might end up blowing a gasket if he tries to sit down and actually figure out what all these articles are stating.
> 
> I would like to see the thread locked for reasons of futile bantering. Please.


I will confer with my fellow mod and get back to you soon. In the meantime, you could just refrain from responding to posts that get your dander up.


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