# Permesso di Soggiorno Renewal



## BobbyS (Sep 4, 2014)

Hello everyone,

For the past several years my fiance and I have been spending spring and fall (3 months each time) in Italy and the other parts of the year in the US. Last year we rented an apartment in a small Umbrian town on an annual contract basis. We also each got an ER visa and then a PdiS so that we wouldn't have limitations on how long we could stay each trip or how soon we could return after a stay. Shockingly, both processes were pretty simple and we were not asked to provide any proof of health insurance, though I typically buy travel insurance for the duration of each trip. 

We are about to return to Italy for a couple of months and must submit the documentation for our PdiS renewals, since they expire in November. The question is, is the process for renewal exactly the same as for the initial application? Initially, we attached financial data, passport copies, etc. to the applications submitted at the post office and then at the first questura appointment provided additional copies of everything as well as 4 photos. At the 2nd questura appointment the next week, we were finger printed, asked a few questions about identifying marks (tattoos, birth marks, etc) and then excused. Does anyone know if the same will be required? I am also wondering about the cost of Italian health insurance if we are required to acquire it this time. If we were living full time there I would want some kind of insurance. However, with our current schedule, I would be happy to pay out of pocket for any required doctor visit and use my US insurance and US doctors if anything serious arose.

I appreciate any information or insight that anyone can provide.

Bob


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## BBCWatcher (Dec 28, 2012)

There's some inherent variability whenever you're dealing with different persons executing bureaucratic procedures. Aside from that inherent variability, no, it should be just about the same process, perhaps even less onerous.


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## Mozella (Nov 30, 2013)

I would say be ready for anything. First of all, my understanding of a PdiS based on an ER visa requires you to be "full time" residents. I don't remember exactly how long you can be absent from Italy each year, but I think it's less than 50% of the time. If you're visiting Italy for only 3 months each year and staying in the U.S. for the remainder, you're most likely in violation of the terms of your PdiS.

This summer I renewed my PdiS (based on an ER visa) as I always do every 2 years. But unlike years past, the clerk at the Questura, during the finger print procedure, demanded that I prove my health insurance for the entire 2 years. I buy ASL national health coverage every year. The only way to buy it (here in Piemonte anyway) is to purchase a card every January which expires on 31 December; i.e. you can't buy more than one year at a time. The PdiS clerk said I would have to purchase private insurance. 

This was not only a surprising change it's a ridiculous "Catch 22". The fact that one branch of the government has no idea of the rules of another branch isn't surprising, but it is frustrating. 

We negotiated for nearly an hour and then I was reduced to begging for 20 minutes. Finally he said OK. But it's been several months now and my PdiS has not been renewed. 

This insane event was the triggering point for us to leave our beloved Italy after many years, say goodby to our precious Italian friends, and move to another country. It breaks my heart, but in another 5 years we'll be too old to cope with the bureaucracy since we have no family support here in Italy. It will also plunge a knife into my wallet since we've sold our cars, furniture, and appliances at a huge losses and we expect to take an even bigger loss if and when we ever sell our house. .............. Sigh.


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## BobbyS (Sep 4, 2014)

Thanks for the info and insight Mozella and I'm sorry to hear about the frustrations that forced your departure. I do in fact spend at least 50% of the year in Italy, just not all at the same time. Most of the American expats with PdiSes that I know there do pretty much the same thing, part of the year in Italy and part in the US. But I do understand that implementation and even understanding of the rules are not consistent and this works to the advantage of some and disadvantage of others.

I also just discovered that my PdiS expires not on 11/9/2014 as I thought, but on 9/11/2014. I made the mistake of forgetting the format of the expiration date. Thus, I am scheduled to arrive in Italy 1 week after the expiration of my PdiS and I don't know if I should anticipate a problem getting in or not. Normally I guess one would just enter as a tourist in this case, however I just ended a 4 month stay there in July and as a tourist could not re-enter the country yet, according to the rules regulating tourists travel.


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