# Residency as the spouse of an EU citizen,



## Brooksey Boy (May 10, 2021)

Hi, my wife has an Irish passport and i will be seeking residency as the spouse of an EU citizen. We are emigrating to Spain from the UK, has anyone gone down this route since Brexit and if so any tips to share.


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## Do28 (Dec 21, 2010)

Its pretty easy. She will register as an EU national, you will register as her spouse. All paperwork must be within the last 3 months and this includes your marriage certificate! So you must get a new copy of it dated within the 3 months prior to your application or something else that proves you are still married. Forms are below:






PORTAL DE INMIGRACIÓN. Modelos generales


PORTAL DE INMIGRACIÓN - Ministerio de Inclusión, Seguridad Social y Migraciones: Página sobre modelos generales de solicitud del Portal de Inmigración




extranjeros.inclusion.gob.es


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## Laurens Pilger (Sep 23, 2021)

If you are the spouse of a citizen of the Republic of Ireland, which falls under the European Union, you will have no issues requesting permanent residency in Spain, however it does not matter much that your spouse originates from a country within the European Union and there are some rules and requirements to adhere. The process you should follow is to first apply for a NIE number at the Policia Nacional, this is the tax identification number for foreigners in Spain. The NIE does not expire, and will allow you to rent or buy a property - it does not grant you a residence permit per se.

Applying for your NIE can be tedious and frustrating, you'll need to be able to speak basic Spanish and be prepared for long queues. I recommend you make an appointment via the website of the Spanish government, to be precise the "Administraciones Públicas" department, and pick a Policia Nacional station in a lesser touristic town or city, such as Alcoy. This can save you an entire day of waiting in line. The link to make the appointment is: Proceso automático para la solicitud de cita previa

Following your NIE application and once you have an address, you need to register in the "Padrón Municipal", you do this by going to the town hall ("ayuntamiento") of your municipality where you will present your rental contract, deed of a purchased property in your name or in case of a property in the name of your spouse a statement granting you permission to use said address as your place of residence, after which the town hall will register you at said address. This process is called "empadronar" and generally only takes a couple of minutes.

When you are in possession of both the NIE and a "volante de empadronamiento" (proof of registration in the municipality) you can now request a TIE card. The TIE card is the official identity document for foreigners in Spain and features your photo, personal details and address of residence, and is essentially your residence permit - it's simply an ID card that also mentions your address. The TIE card needs to be renewed when it expires, I believe the period of validity is 5 years.

To be granted a TIE card (and as such, a residence permit), you will need to be able to provide one of the following:

proof of employment in the form of a work contract (or pre-contract if you have not started working), OR;
proof of private health insurance, fully comprehensive and paid 1 year upfront, AND proof of funds in a Spanish bank account in your name - minimum of €7000 for individuals, or €10.000 for married couples. Proof of funds need to be stamped and certified as authentic by your Spanish bank - screenshots of internet banking will NOT suffice, neither will accounts at online banks such as N26 or Revolut. In case you own the property of your residence in Spain and have paid off a fair amount of the mortgage (there are no set rules for this), this can also suffice as proof of funds.

If you're self-employed in Spain, don't get me started - lots of forms and basically means setting the difficulty level to "Extreme". 

The backlog for TIE applications in most municipalities is huge, so it's important you take care of all paperwork directly following up on your NIE and empadronamiento.

Your spouse will have a breeze in comparison - she just needs to have a NIE number and empadronamiento. Officially it is required to apply for the TIE if your stay in Spain is longer than 3 months, but generally most people don't even bother and never go past simply registering at the town hall.

Hope this helps.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Laurens Pilger said:


> If you are the spouse of a citizen of the Republic of Ireland, which falls under the European Union, you will have no issues requesting permanent residency in Spain, however it does not matter much that your spouse originates from a country within the European Union and there are some rules and requirements to adhere. The process you should follow is to first apply for a NIE number at the Policia Nacional, this is the tax identification number for foreigners in Spain. The NIE does not expire, and will allow you to rent or buy a property - it does not grant you a residence permit per se.
> 
> Applying for your NIE can be tedious and frustrating, you'll need to be able to speak basic Spanish and be prepared for long queues. I recommend you make an appointment via the website of the Spanish government, to be precise the "Administraciones Públicas" department, and pick a Policia Nacional station in a lesser touristic town or city, such as Alcoy. This can save you an entire day of waiting in line. The link to make the appointment is: Proceso automático para la solicitud de cita previa
> 
> ...


SO much of that information just isn't correct!

I'm working atm, but I'll come back on my break & go through the points one by one.


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## Laurens Pilger (Sep 23, 2021)

xabiaxica said:


> SO much of that information just isn't correct!
> 
> I'm working atm, but I'll come back on my break & go through the points one by one.


I should note that in my reply i'm assuming the topic starter has no previous history in Spain and is starting out fresh.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Laurens Pilger said:


> I should note that in my reply i'm assuming the topic starter has no previous history in Spain and is starting out fresh.


So am I.


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## Laurens Pilger (Sep 23, 2021)

xabiaxica said:


> So am I.


Then I would love to hear your feedback on the matter, as my reply is based on regulations that me and my colleagues follow on a daily basis, and obtained first-hand from the Spanish authorities. I hope it goes without saying that my intention is not to cause confusion, but rather to contribute factually correct and helpful information.


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

The main piece of information is roughly right although we are a fairly pedantic bunch here so you will get lots of people pointing out small errors . For example you dont get permanent residence until you have lived for 5 consecutive years in Spain with less than 10 months absence etc.

I fear this is going to be a long thread....


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## Laurens Pilger (Sep 23, 2021)

kaipa said:


> The main piece of information is roughly right although we are a fairly pedantic bunch here so you will get lots of people pointing out small errors . For example you dont get permanent residence until you have lived for 5 consecutive years in Spain with less than 10 months absence etc.
> 
> I fear this is going to be a long thread....


I am aware, but i'm sure you'll agree that your residency status 5 years from now is one of those bridges you cross when you get there. 

Fact is that ever since Brexit the process of applying for residency for British citizens has gotten a lot more difficult and if you do not yet live in Spain and are in possession of the green permiso de residencia, you're in for a treat.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Laurens Pilger said:


> If you are the spouse of a citizen of the Republic of Ireland, which falls under the European Union, you will have no issues requesting permanent residency in Spain, however it does not matter much that your spouse originates from a country within the European Union and there are some rules and requirements to adhere. The process you should follow is to first apply for a NIE number at the Policia Nacional, this is the tax identification number for foreigners in Spain. The NIE does not expire, and will allow you to rent or buy a property - it does not grant you a residence permit per se.
> 
> Applying for your NIE can be tedious and frustrating, you'll need to be able to speak basic Spanish and be prepared for long queues. I recommend you make an appointment via the website of the Spanish government, to be precise the "Administraciones Públicas" department, and pick a Policia Nacional station in a lesser touristic town or city, such as Alcoy. This can save you an entire day of waiting in line. The link to make the appointment is: Proceso automático para la solicitud de cita previa
> 
> ...


1. The NIE does not need to be applied for in advance. If the applicant doesn't have one, it will be issued as part of the application. This is the case for everyone, regardless of whether they are registering as an EU citizen, as spouse of an EU citizen, or as a third country citizen.
Some 'facilitators' are sadly insisting that you have to get a NIE before doing anything else, but then of course they can charge the applicant more! 

2. Eu citizens should first register as resident, then on the padrón. While some aytos ignore this, it is how it is supposed to happen.

3. A 3rd country citizen qualifying family member (including spouse) of an EU citizen does NOT need to go through the TIE process as described in the quoted post. They do NOT need a job / work contract. They are registering as a dependant of the EU citizen so that person has to show that THEY can support the dependent.

First, the EU citizen registers asap after arrival. The good news is, it's a one appointment process, & as long as all paperwork is in order, the applicant walks out with their registration card. They use form EX 18
The 3rd country dependant MUST apply within 90 days of arrival in Spain. Use form EX 19.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Laurens Pilger said:


> I am aware, but i'm sure you'll agree that your residency status 5 years from now is one of those bridges you cross when you get there.
> 
> Fact is that ever since Brexit the process of applying for residency for British citizens has gotten a lot more difficult and if you do not yet live in Spain and are in possession of the green permiso de residencia, you're in for a treat.


After the first year, when the applicant of a TIE not issued under the WA applies for the first extension, checks are made to see if the applicant has been in Spain for the required period.

Then again at the 3 year point when the second extension is applied for.

As kaipa said, a maximum of 6 consecutive months up to a TOTAL of 10 months in the first 5 years. So if someone goes away for 6 months within the first 12 months, they can only leave the country for 4 months TOTAL in the next 4 years.

If the applicant cannot prove that, the extension is refused. So, anyone advising people to leave that bridge to cross until the 5 year point, is giving terribly misleading advice.


Even holders of a TIE issued under the WA must ensure that they spend more time in Spain than away - at least 6 months a year, for the first 5 years.


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## timwip (Feb 27, 2017)

kaipa said:


> The main piece of information is roughly right although we are a fairly pedantic bunch here so you will get lots of people pointing out small errors . For example you dont get permanent residence until you have lived for 5 consecutive years in Spain with less than 10 months absence etc.
> 
> I fear this is going to be a long thread....


I have heard the less than 10 months in 5 year rule cited a number of times by various people. Not that I doubt it, but can anyone point me to an official Spanish website that states that?


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## timwip (Feb 27, 2017)

I am really interested in this "less than 10 months in five years" issue since I do quite a bit of travel. On the Ministry of Interior website, under Permanent Residency, no where does the "less than 10 months in five years" appear. They talk about "continuous over five years" but never define continuous. Furthermore, it is not in the section Permanent Residency Card for Family Members of EU Citizens. Where does this 10 months come from?

Residencia de carácter permanente - Ministerio del Interior


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

timwip said:


> I am really interested in this "less than 10 months in five years" issue since I do quite a bit of travel. On the Ministry of Interior website, under Permanent Residency, no where does the "less than 10 months in five years" appear. They talk about "continuous over five years" but never define continuous. Furthermore, it is not in the section Permanent Residency Card for Family Members of EU Citizens. Where does this 10 months come from?
> 
> Residencia de carácter permanente - Ministerio del Interior


Anyone with residency as a dependant of an EU citizen is subject to the same cionditions as an EU citizen, which is why the 10 months doesn't apply. 

Continuous residence for 5 years for an EU citizen - or holder of a temporary TIE issued under the WA, means that at least 6 months per year must be spent in Spain.


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## Do28 (Dec 21, 2010)

xabiaxica said:


> Anyone with residency as a dependant of an EU citizen is subject to the same cionditions as an EU citizen, which is why the 10 months doesn't apply.
> 
> Continuous residence for 5 years for an EU citizen - or holder of a temporary TIE issued under the WA, means that at least 6 months per year must be spent in Spain.


At the risk of being pedantic, no country makes anyone a prisoner. The definition of residency is you must maintain Spain as your base which would be your home etc and not actually be physically present all the time in the country as immigration do recognise that in a modern global world people can be taken away for longer periods. The 6 months comes from you abandoning your base in Spain which means no home etc. not just being out the country.

An example would be some working in aviation or oil who is away for long periods of time but has Spain as their home with family here etc would still be considered resident. There are lots of nuances that have to be looked at.

Its not as cut and dried as people seem to think on forums and a lot of people post very out of date information that reflected what happened to them when they came to Spain which can often be donkeys years old.


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

It makes sense or else Spanish residency would mean you could over 5 years have spent practically half of that in UK ( going away 6 months every year). And that would then allow people to start saying they are residents for tax in one country, domiciled in another, centre of interest in different one from tax resident etc. Lots of folk here still seem to think that they have worked out clever solutions to suit there own personal requirements or having the best of both worlds.( The: I live in Spain but I dont register any where,I dont make a tax declaration, I dont do the padron, use bank account ,phone etc - so I dont owe Spain anything!) We have been through this debate so many times. As I said I was investigated and when they do it they are very good at tracking everything ( access to bank details, electricity bill, ISAs, property transfers) . If you are confident you are doing nothing wrong you can just phone la Hacienda and they will confirm everything but you need to be totally honest about everything not selective!!


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## Do28 (Dec 21, 2010)

kaipa said:


> It makes sense or else Spanish residency would mean you could over 5 years have spent practically half of that in UK ( going away 6 months every year). And that would then allow people to start saying they are residents for tax in one country, domiciled in another, centre of interest in different one from tax resident etc. Lots of folk here still seem to think that they have worked out clever solutions to suit there own personal requirements or having the best of both worlds.( The: I live in Spain but I dont register any where,I dont make a tax declaration, I dont do the padron, use bank account ,phone etc - so I dont owe Spain anything!) We have been through this debate so many times. As I said I was investigated and when they do it they are very good at tracking everything ( access to bank details, electricity bill, ISAs, property transfers) . If you are confident you are doing nothing wrong you can just phone la Hacienda and they will confirm everything but you need to be totally honest about everything not selective!!


Absolutely right. Somewhere along the piper has to be paid and people need to make sure they are on the right side of the rules. The rules are actually quite generous and it is perfectly possible to be domiciled in one place and live in another and also be dual domiciled. Its not as cut and dried as some of the advice on this forum would indicate as people tend to measure everything by their own circumstances so good professional advice is needed. For those who are more global with work outside Spain and living in Spain the double taxation agreements are actually very favourable but anyone thinking they can hide from the authorities could be in for a shock!


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

I should just add. I am organising my divorce in Spain and have discovered that by having my spouse transfer her half of the uk property to me whilst I do the same for her with Spanish property we face a huge tax claim as all gifts between spouses are taxable! My lawyer said, normally Spanish just equalise the prices to avoid this but as I have done a modelo 720 this wont be possible as they can check quite easily. Even if I become a uk resident I will face tax in spain as my wife still lives here and therefore my centre of financial interest still is here!!. Its a real minefield which in the past was easily avoided as the Spanish system was not very good. But now!! Things are very different. So good luck those of you who think you can out smart them


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

flybe said:


> Absolutely right. Somewhere along the piper has to be paid and people need to make sure they are on the right side of the rules. The rules are actually quite generous and it is perfectly possible to be domiciled in one place and live in another and also be dual domiciled. Its not as cut and dried as some of the advice on this forum would indicate as people tend to measure everything by their own circumstances so good professional advice is needed. For those who are more global with work outside Spain and living in Spain the double taxation agreements are actually very favourable but anyone thinking they can hide from the authorities could be in for a shock!


True but irrespective you cant be absent from Spain for more than 10 months in first 5 years without losing your residency. Your dates will be recorded even if you just submit a TIE at controls and passport is not stamped. If they didnt do this it means people with temporary TIEs could just come and go anytime over the 5 year card period. Only after 5 years of residency can you do this and only for 5 consecutive years.


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## timwip (Feb 27, 2017)

xabiaxica said:


> Anyone with residency as a dependant of an EU citizen is subject to the same conditions as an EU citizen, which is why the 10 months doesn't apply.


Thanks for clearing this up! I am in the same situation as the original poster, resident of Spain due to marriage to an EU citizen. When people started bringing up this 10 months in five years rule which, as it turns out, had no relevancy to the original post, I was getting confused since I had never read that before nor had my lawyer discussed that with me. As it turns out, posters were just confusing the issue by bringing in extraneous information.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

timwip said:


> Thanks for clearing this up! I am in the same situation as the original poster, resident of Spain due to marriage to an EU citizen. When people started bringing up this 10 months in five years rule which, as it turns out, had no relevancy to the original post, I was getting confused since I had never read that before nor had my lawyer discussed that with me. As it turns out, posters were just confusing the issue by bringing in extraneous information.


Agreed.

Unfortunately a new member who apparently makes a living in the field posted some misleading information, which had to be corrected - but then that's the nature of forums!


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## timwip (Feb 27, 2017)

xabiaxica said:


> Agreed.
> 
> Unfortunately a new member who apparently makes a living in the field posted some misleading information, which had to be corrected - but then that's the nature of forums!


The problem is that his misleading information was being corrected with false information. But like you say, that´s the nature of forums!


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