# Immigration question from a regular young couple



## Janicz

Greetings all! 

I'm a new poster to the forum, but I've been reading a lot in the past few days. I chose to make my own thread as I'm unable to find exact an answer to my question. Hope you can help!

Some background info: 
We're both from Norway but have been working and living in London for the past couple of years but now want to move to NZ! I managed to secure a NZ job offer (currently waiting for references to be checked) in Auckland!

The job is listed in the Ops Manual, Appendix 6, Section A and I have a relevant Bachelor Degree. On the immigration points calculator we scored 160 points (Getting points for stuff like a skilled job offer and my partners education). We are both under 30. 

The question I have is:
*Assuming a start date of 5 weeks from now, how can I legally start this job? There's no chance I will have time to submit an EOI, get drawn, get all the things I need to fill out the application in the ITA, wait for processing and then get the Resident Visa in 5 weeks?*

I've done some research and I'm not allowed to work on a Tourist Visa, and a "Work and Travel" visa application would be dishonest as I would be coming to NZ to primarily work, not have holiday (listed as one of the points to be eligible for that visa). A silver fern visa is out of the picture as it is very hard to get and only opens on the 27 april. Skilled migrant seems to be the way to go. 

Any help here would be very much appreciated!!

Thanks!
Janicz


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## topcat83

Janicz said:


> Greetings all!
> 
> I'm a new poster to the forum, but I've been reading a lot in the past few days. I chose to make my own thread as I'm unable to find exact an answer to my question. Hope you can help!
> 
> Some background info:
> We're both from Norway but have been working and living in London for the past couple of years but now want to move to NZ! I managed to secure a NZ job offer (currently waiting for references to be checked) in Auckland!
> 
> The job is listed in the Ops Manual, Appendix 6, Section A and I have a relevant Bachelor Degree. On the immigration points calculator we scored 160 points (Getting points for stuff like a skilled job offer and my partners education). We are both under 30.
> 
> The question I have is:
> *Assuming a start date of 5 weeks from now, how can I legally start this job? There's no chance I will have time to submit an EOI, get drawn, get all the things I need to fill out the application in the ITA, wait for processing and then get the Resident Visa in 5 weeks?*
> 
> I've done some research and I'm not allowed to work on a Tourist Visa, and a "Work and Travel" visa application would be dishonest as I would be coming to NZ to primarily work, not have holiday (listed as one of the points to be eligible for that visa). A silver fern visa is out of the picture as it is very hard to get and only opens on the 27 april. Skilled migrant seems to be the way to go.
> 
> Any help here would be very much appreciated!!
> 
> Thanks!
> Janicz


Hi there - a difficult one! Hopefully your potential employer will be a little flexible on start dates, given the visa situation. 

How about applying for a Temporary Work visa in the short term? Work in NZ temporarily - that should be quicker. 

How many points do you get without the job offer? It might be worth setting things in motion in advance then adding the job offer once you get it. Do everything online and I believe you can do this. 

NZ Immigration should process the visa reasonably quickly, as you have a job offer. 

Does anyone else have experience of starting a job in advance of the visa? I did work with a Project Manager who came over on a visitors visa, started work but didn't get paid until his residents visa came through - not quite according to the rules but he got away with it...


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## antipodes

hi there,
I suggest apply for a work visa as soon as you can, all going well, you might just be able to get in 2-4 weeks. Once you get to NZ and start your work, you can look at starting your residence process, without being pressed for time anymore. 
good luck!



Janicz said:


> Greetings all!
> 
> I'm a new poster to the forum, but I've been reading a lot in the past few days. I chose to make my own thread as I'm unable to find exact an answer to my question. Hope you can help!
> 
> Some background info:
> We're both from Norway but have been working and living in London for the past couple of years but now want to move to NZ! I managed to secure a NZ job offer (currently waiting for references to be checked) in Auckland!
> 
> The job is listed in the Ops Manual, Appendix 6, Section A and I have a relevant Bachelor Degree. On the immigration points calculator we scored 160 points (Getting points for stuff like a skilled job offer and my partners education). We are both under 30.
> 
> The question I have is:
> *Assuming a start date of 5 weeks from now, how can I legally start this job? There's no chance I will have time to submit an EOI, get drawn, get all the things I need to fill out the application in the ITA, wait for processing and then get the Resident Visa in 5 weeks?*
> 
> I've done some research and I'm not allowed to work on a Tourist Visa, and a "Work and Travel" visa application would be dishonest as I would be coming to NZ to primarily work, not have holiday (listed as one of the points to be eligible for that visa). A silver fern visa is out of the picture as it is very hard to get and only opens on the 27 april. Skilled migrant seems to be the way to go.
> 
> Any help here would be very much appreciated!!
> 
> Thanks!
> Janicz


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## waynejenny

we applied under the talent visa/work to residancy visa with my wife and 3 young children involved. 
I have 30 month work visa for kiwi rail. Wife has 30 month work visa and children 30 month student visa's.
from submitting to getting visa back took 15 days. plus week for police check but can be quicker if you pay extra and if you can get in for a medical also about a week. so would say possible to do within a month.
ask your employer if they are talent visa recognised.


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## Janicz

Hi All, 

Thanks for the advice so far. Just wanted to give you an update. I'm still waiting for the job offer in writing before we continue submitting the EOI.

I will continue writing the EOI as soon as possible, but I wanted to ask if anyone knows if there will be any problems if we go to NZ on tourist visa and wait for the job visa there (assuming we wont get the visa in time)? 

Cheers,
Janicz


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## Janicz

Managed to complete the EOI by 2am NZ time on the 11th Jan and was selected on the draw the same day!

It now says "selected" and we're eagerly waiting for the invitation to apply. I've submitted requests for Police checks (seems this might be the slowest part of the application, eta 3 weeks) and I've gotten true copies of my university diploma, passport & birth certificate. We'll be booking chest X-rays shortly and making sure we have the rest as well.


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## relocatella

Selected the same day :clap2: Wow this must have been a great surprise!

I wish you to be as lucky all along the process and the move!


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## topcat83

Many Congratulations! And good going to get it selected the same day. Must be some kind of a record there!


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## Janicz

topcat83 said:


> Many Congratulations! And good going to get it selected the same day. Must be some kind of a record there!


Thank you! But isn't it a rule that *everyone* with over 140 points in a given draw get selected? If not, I didn't even realize how lucky we are!


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## topcat83

Janicz said:


> Thank you! But isn't it a rule that *everyone* with over 140 points in a given draw get selected? If not, I didn't even realize how lucky we are!


It's not a rule - but is usual. Sometimes though the offer comes with a stipulation that you must find a job in the area of shortage that you gained points for.


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## Neil M

topcat83 said:


> It's not a rule - but is usual. Sometimes though the offer comes with a stipulation that you must find a job in the area of shortage that you gained points for.


Can you please clarify that? You made it sound like you can qualify for the hiring points in an area of skill shortage in advance of actually getting a job offer. I thought that you needed the job offer first before you could claim 140+ points on a visa app. (I'm figuring it's hard to come up with 140 points without a job offer ... is for me). Thanks very much!


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## topcat83

Neil M said:


> Can you please clarify that? You made it sound like you can qualify for the hiring points in an area of skill shortage in advance of actually getting a job offer. I thought that you needed the job offer first before you could claim 140+ points on a visa app. (I'm figuring it's hard to come up with 140 points without a job offer ... is for me). Thanks very much!


It's a while since I needed to fill in an application (been here 5 years now so are eligible for citizenship - yay!) but I believe it is possible to get 140+ points (but unusual) without a job offer.
It used to be the case that NZ Immigration would offer PR with no job strings attached to anyone with 120+ points (this happened to me - we arrived and I had three months off before I even started looking!) but more recently people have been reporting that the Immigration website seems to be saying that the offer comes with the constraint that you must find a job in your declared field within a certain length of arriving.

There are some previous posts on this.

Does anyone with more recent experience have any updates to this?


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## Janicz

Hi All, 

We just got our application rejected! We're devastated... The points from the job offer got pulled since my qualification wasn't specific enough for the position to replace the work experience required, and 4.5 years work experience was short of the 5 years you need to replace the qualification. I don't know why I thought they would be a little flexible... its bureaucracy. 440NZD down the drain! But I fully accept It's my fault. 

My employer has recommended me to go for the temporary essential skills visa... But it's nowhere as convenient as the Skilled Migrant Visa. Does anyone have any advice/ideas on what to do now?

How long does it take to get a temporary work visa? 

Thanks,
J


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## sdh080

I came in under the working holiday scheme for the first year and applied for the work visa later.


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## topcat83

How annoying for you, Janicz. I'm afraid (like most bureaucracies) Immigration can be very inflexible. Hopefully the working visa route will work for you.
Otherwise - will the company that offered you the job wait another 6 months so you get the extra work experience? Worth asking...


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## bhullo

sdh080 said:


> I came in under the working holiday scheme for the first year and applied for the work visa later.


Hi which visa is this as it sounds like something I would look at as I have 130 points but if I could get a job as a chef it jumps to 170 but no one is really interested as not in nz 
Thanks


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## sdh080

bhullo said:


> Hi which visa is this as it sounds like something I would look at as I have 130 points but if I could get a job as a chef it jumps to 170 but no one is really interested as not in nz
> Thanks


There's a link on the immigration website, UK Working Holiday Scheme, you have to be 30 or under to apply.


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## Neil M

topcat83 said:


> It's a while since I needed to fill in an application (been here 5 years now so are eligible for citizenship - yay!) but I believe it is possible to get 140+ points (but unusual) without a job offer.
> It used to be the case that NZ Immigration would offer PR with no job strings attached to anyone with 120+ points (this happened to me - we arrived and I had three months off before I even started looking!) but more recently people have been reporting that the Immigration website seems to be saying that the offer comes with the constraint that you must find a job in your declared field within a certain length of arriving.
> 
> There are some previous posts on this.
> 
> Does anyone with more recent experience have any updates to this?


I called them up yesterday and it seems I do need a job offer before applying for the visa with the job offer points attached, and that there is no conditional visa granted so long as a job offer is obtained.


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## Janicz

topcat83 said:


> How annoying for you, Janicz. I'm afraid (like most bureaucracies) Immigration can be very inflexible. Hopefully the working visa route will work for you.
> Otherwise - will the company that offered you the job wait another 6 months so you get the extra work experience? Worth asking...


Thanks, but that won't work as I already quit my old job... ages ago  

New question though! 

Are we OK coming into NZ on a tourist visa, apply for a temporary work visa, and be tourists until I get a temp visa?


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## Neil M

Janicz said:


> Thanks, but that won't work as I already quit my old job... ages ago
> 
> New question though!
> 
> Are we OK coming into NZ on a tourist visa, apply for a temporary work visa, and be tourists until I get a temp visa?


Hi Janicz,

Sorry to hear of your visa refusal. I'm in a similar boat as you right now exploring the idea of entering NZ, and learning about visas, so thank you for sharing your bad news so others can avoid the same mistake.

One idea I did have for you, for what it may be worth, maybe nothing... but I understand if you have a work visa for Australia, it gets you in the door of NZ automatically, without having to impress NZ immigration channels with any other paperwork.

As for entering NZ on a tourist visa, and then poking around for work and then getting a visa that way, I've thought of that as well. One of the small problems with that I'm pretty sure you'll need a ticket out of the country in order to enter as a tourist. Not necessarily a return ticket, but just a ticket out of NZ, of course dated before the max time allowed for tourists in NZ. The second issue is the time it takes to get the visa after you manage to secure the points required for a permanent visa may take longer than your tourist time. Both problems might be addressed by arranging for a short tourist stay to find a job and apply for the visa, then flying out of NZ to somewhere nearby, perhaps Fiji or someplace similar to wait for the visa to be approved, then reentering NZ. 

For what it's worth... Good luck to you, and cheers!


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## Janicz

Neil M said:


> One idea I did have for you, for what it may be worth, maybe nothing... but I understand if you have a work visa for Australia, it gets you in the door of NZ automatically, without having to impress NZ immigration channels with any other paperwork.


Thanks for the idea, anything helps at this point!

I called immigration today... they were unable to give me a clear answer! She did recommend me to get the temp visa before arriving in NZ, but with a processing time of max 30 days and tickets to NZ already booked, we discussed the idea I originally had. Technically, I think it's wrong to come to the country on a tourist visa, then apply for temp work visa in NZ... but on the other hand, I think it happens and they might let it happen even though it's bending the rules a bit. I'm going to call again to see if I can get a second opinion.


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## sdh080

Janicz said:


> Thanks for the idea, anything helps at this point!
> 
> I called immigration today... they were unable to give me a clear answer! She did recommend me to get the temp visa before arriving in NZ, but with a processing time of max 30 days and tickets to NZ already booked, we discussed the idea I originally had. Technically, I think it's wrong to come to the country on a tourist visa, then apply for temp work visa in NZ... but on the other hand, I think it happens and they might let it happen even though it's bending the rules a bit. I'm going to call again to see if I can get a second opinion.


I applied for the Working Holiday Scheme online, had it approved within 24 hours and flew out to NZ a month or so later.

I then applied for the work visa towards the end of the 1 year I was allowed on the working holiday scheme, has worked out perfectly and no questions asked by immigration.


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## Neil M

sdh080 said:


> I applied for the Working Holiday Scheme online, had it approved within 24 hours and flew out to NZ a month or so later.
> 
> I then applied for the work visa towards the end of the 1 year I was allowed on the working holiday scheme, has worked out perfectly and no questions asked by immigration.


Perhaps the most limiting factor for that is the applicant must be between 18 and 30 years old.


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## sdh080

Neil M said:


> Perhaps the most limiting factor for that is the applicant must be between 18 and 30 years old.


The original poster stated they were under 30.


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## Janicz

Got a second opinion today and they said to NOT enter NZ on a tourist visa if we intend to later apply for a work visa. It could destroy our chances to get a work visa or residence further down the line.

We are now looking into applying in australia so that we only forfeit the last leg of our bank-breaking flight. Why isnt there a bridging visa in NZ like there is in australia?

J


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## J Holmes

Janicz said:


> Got a second opinion today and they said to NOT enter NZ on a tourist visa if we intend to later apply for a work visa. It could destroy our chances to get a work visa or residence further down the line.
> 
> We are now looking into applying in australia so that we only forfeit the last leg of our bank-breaking flight. Why isnt there a bridging visa in NZ like there is in australia?
> 
> J


I've just read your posts and you have had quite a roller-coaster of a ride over the last couple of days ! Its never a good idea to work anywhere on a tourist visa - it will come to haunt you later. 

Are you planning to head over to Australia instead of NZ now ? I'd also recommend taking a look at the Working holiday visa - its temporary, but allows you to work towards a permanent position. 

I guess the only downside is that you don't have access to resident benefits straight away even though you will be paying tax etc.


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## J Holmes

Janicz said:


> Hi All,
> 
> We just got our application rejected! We're devastated... The points from the job offer got pulled since my qualification wasn't specific enough for the position to replace the work experience required, and 4.5 years work experience was short of the 5 years you need to replace the qualification. I don't know why I thought they would be a little flexible... its bureaucracy. 440NZD down the drain! But I fully accept It's my fault.
> 
> My employer has recommended me to go for the temporary essential skills visa... But it's nowhere as convenient as the Skilled Migrant Visa. Does anyone have any advice/ideas on what to do now?
> 
> How long does it take to get a temporary work visa?
> 
> Thanks,
> J


Hi Janicz

I'm looking at moving to NZ with my wife. Could you be more specific about "the qualification wasn't specific enough for the position" ? What did you apply for and what qualification do you have ?
Do you mean that your qualification wasn't exactly stated in the Long term skills shortage list or something similar ? A concrete example would be greatly appreciated !

Thanks 

J


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## sdh080

Janicz said:


> Got a second opinion today and they said to NOT enter NZ on a tourist visa if we intend to later apply for a work visa. It could destroy our chances to get a work visa or residence further down the line.
> 
> We are now looking into applying in australia so that we only forfeit the last leg of our bank-breaking flight. Why isnt there a bridging visa in NZ like there is in australia?
> 
> J


Yeah, you can't enter on a tourist visa but if you're eligible for one of the working holiday visas as you seem to be then there's no reason not to apply.

I spent my first year on one and have just had my work visa approved giving me a further 2 years, now just to work on the residence part.


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## Janicz

J Holmes said:


> Are you planning to head over to Australia instead of NZ now ? I'd also recommend taking a look at the Working holiday visa - its temporary, but allows you to work towards a permanent position.


What we've decided to do is change our flight tickets so that we get dropped off in Australia in stead of NZ (there is a stopover there anyway). We then apply for a temp visa at the Sydney office and wait for the visa while being tourists in Australia (never visited so making the most out of the wait). As soon as we get the temp visa approved we buy flight tickets out of Australia and go to NZ and start working! It's cheaper to buy tickets from Australia to NZ than from London to NZ! 



J Holmes said:


> I'm looking at moving to NZ with my wife. Could you be more specific about "the qualification wasn't specific enough for the position" ? What did you apply for and what qualification do you have ?
> Do you mean that your qualification wasn't exactly stated in the Long term skills shortage list or something similar ? A concrete example would be greatly appreciated !


Quote from the EOI refusal letter I got (its also online):

_*SM7.10.5 Relevance of qualification(s) to employment*
Qualifications are relevant to employment if:
the major subject area of the principal applicant's recognised qualification is directly applicable to the employment; and/or
an immigration officer is satisfied that the qualification was a key factor in the employer's decision to employ the principal applicant in that position._

I have a business degree and the job is an ICT Business Analyst (261111). I have 4.5 years experience in an IT job. According to the LTSSL list It seems I should have had "Bachelor degree (Level 7) specialising in Information Technology (Computer Science, Information Systems or other Information Technology) OR Bachelor degree (Level 7) specialising in Electrical and Electronic Engineering and Technology."



sdh080 said:


> Yeah, you can't enter on a tourist visa but if you're eligible for one of the working holiday visas as you seem to be then there's no reason not to apply.


I could indeed, but my partner is not Norwegian and is not eligible for working holiday visa... so we decided to both apply for a temporary work visa. We called immigration and they said we can both apply simultaneously even though only I have the job offer. I'm quite sure there is a box in for INZ 1015 which she will need to tick differently from me.


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## G-Mo

Janicz said:


> What we've decided to do is change our flight tickets so that we get dropped off in Australia in stead of NZ (there is a stopover there anyway). We then apply for a temp visa at the Sydney office and wait for the visa while being tourists in Australia (never visited so making the most out of the wait). As soon as we get the temp visa approved we buy flight tickets out of Australia and go to NZ and start working! It's cheaper to buy tickets from Australia to NZ than from London to NZ!


Are the tickets you have to Australia return tickets?


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## Janicz

No, they are london - melbourne, auckland - london. Why?


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## G-Mo

Janicz said:


> No, they are london - melbourne, auckland - london. Why?


So they are return. They have you going back to your departure point eventually.

If you don't have the appropriate papers to stay in a country or a return ticket, they won't let you on the flight (or worse, they return you at point of destination).


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## Neil M

G-Mo said:


> If you don't have the appropriate papers to stay in a country or a return ticket, they won't let you on the flight (or worse, they return you at point of destination).


Many countries require that all visitors that don't have a right to stay in the country permanently (i.e. tourists) have either a return ticket or some kind of paid passage out of the country prior to the expiration of the legal time limit for tourists in order to enter the country in the first place. My current country of Ecuador makes airlines be the enforcing agent by fining them if they ever bring any tourists into the country who do not have paid passage out of the country, and that may well be generally universal in how things go. I found out the hard way on one early trip here to Ecuador that a one-way ticket wouldn't do, and had to buy a return ticket on the spot before they'd give me a boarding pass in the USA. Though on a later flight into Ecuador I had a separate airline flight booked out of the country and they never asked to see it. So it may be hit and miss depending on airline personnel and how busy they are, I guess. 

I assume from G-Mo's post that Australia does enforce this the same way, which shouldn't be surprising. (I've no first hand knowledge of Aus policies).

However, it certainly would not need not be a return ticket to your home country. It only needs to be a ticket onto another international destination, and could probably be a boat ticket as easily as a plane ticket, or even a bus or train ticket if it wasn't Australia we were talking about.

Since your ticket is round trip, then you'll have no problem boarding the flight, and if Aus is like Ecuador, then immigration likely won't ask to see your exit ticket (they are too busy looking at passports and getting passengers processed) and you'd _*probably*_ be fine. But if they did and your exit ticket/connecting flight is just 3 hours away then that could conceivably be a big problem, so it may not be worth taking a chance. If you could rebook the final leg from Aus to Auckland to a later date then that should make things clean for you, or maybe buy a refundable ticket to somewhere which could be cancelled and give more flexibility. Maybe not in line with the spirit of the rule, but I'm sure couldn't be illegal, and certainly would not be questioned at entry.

Good luck, and I appreciate your sharing your experiences as it's valuable.


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## Janicz

Hi All, 

Long time no speak!

Thought I would update our story finally. 

I'll recap:

 We lived in London 5 years prior to deciding that we want to go somewhere with better quality of life. Travelled a bit around *New Zealand*, fell in love in the country and decided to move here.
 Secured a job offer which I thought would be classed as Skilled. 
 Submitted EOI @ 160 points and got accepted same day.
 EOI got rejected because skilled job offer did not pass criteria for being skilled.
 As we had already bought tickets, we went to NZ on a tourist visa... no problem on border, they just said you need to apply for work visa ASAP (and we were so worried!). Also, you can NOT just jump off at a connecting airport - your return ticket will probably get cancelled. 
 Applied for essential skills temp visa, and got it within 5 days or so. Valid for 2 years.
 Started work on time and am loving it! It's BETTER than we thought!

The situation now is that both of us have work (both over 55k, permanent, in Auckland) and we are looking into lodging our EOI again soon. 

I went over to Immigration in Auckland and asked when we can apply again, they said 'any time' as long as the reason I got rejected the first time is no longer an issue. Medical was only valid for 3 months so I'll need to get another one. 

*Removing my skilled job offer, but marking off my partner as having skilled work gives us 140 points.* 

I've tried looking online as I think I heard something a while back... Do I NEED to be in a skilled job in order to get an 'Offer to apply'?

And has anyone seen the 'resubmit EOI' button? Would I be resubmitting the same EOI? Do I pay again?


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