# Autonomo for young people



## MauPow (Oct 2, 2012)

Hola,
So I have been living and working as an English teacher in Barcelona for about a year now, but with contracts in language schools. I have an NIE and Social security number here due to an Estonian passport I picked up from my family's heritage (sweet!). So it's been pretty easy to find jobs even as an American because I am technically a European citizen now. I recently got screwed over by a nice school job I was offered and signed a contract for, but they told me a day before I started that they actually don't have any classes for me due to low demand. La **** crisis. Blegh. So I had to get some in-company classes. So here is my situation:

Right now, I have 19.5 hours with my employer. I make €12.40/hr on a "obras" contract. If I go autonomo, I get €18/hr. I know the cost of the autonomo is about €250, and 15% in taxes. But yesterday my boss told me that there is a discount for young people, where you pay ~€150-180 and 7% in taxes. Is this true? Would it be worth it for me to declare autonomo? Thanks for your advice in advance.

Edit: Another question, about Social Security. My understanding is that this is for when you retire. I'm only 24, and not planning to live in Spain for the rest of my life. What happens to my money? Will I get it back at some point, or is that just the price of working here?


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

MauPow said:


> Hola,
> So I have been living and working as an English teacher in Barcelona for about a year now, but with contracts in language schools. I have an NIE and Social security number here due to an Estonian passport I picked up from my family's heritage (sweet!). So it's been pretty easy to find jobs even as an American because I am technically a European citizen now. I recently got screwed over by a nice school job I was offered and signed a contract for, but they told me a day before I started that they actually don't have any classes for me due to low demand. La **** crisis. Blegh. So I had to get some in-company classes. So here is my situation:
> 
> Right now, I have 19.5 hours with my employer. I make €12.40/hr on a "obras" contract. If I go autonomo, I get €18/hr. I know the cost of the autonomo is about €250, and 15% in taxes. But yesterday my boss told me that there is a discount for young people, where you pay ~€150-180 and 7% in taxes. Is this true? Would it be worth it for me to declare autonomo? Thanks for your advice in advance.
> ...


:welcome:

it's simple maths

do you mean 19.5 hours a week?

or a month?

if it's a week then that's +/- 78 hours a month - 18.00-12.40 = 5.60

78x 5.60 = 436.80 a month more - even if you pay full autonómo out of that you're better off


if it's 19.5 hours a month - then 19.5 x 5.60 = 109.20 - that's less than the autónomo payment so you'd be worse off

I don't know if it's true about the lower payments


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## MauPow (Oct 2, 2012)

xabiachica said:


> :welcome:
> 
> it's simple maths
> 
> ...


Yes I did the math, I would make a lot more with autonomo, obviously. It's 19.5/weekly, btw. My main question here was whether there is a lower rate for young people. Would it be worth it to get a gestor? I do speak Spanish, but not legalese.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

MauPow said:


> Yes I did the math, I would make a lot more with autonomo, obviously. It's 19.5/weekly, btw. My main question here was whether there is a lower rate for young people. Would it be worth it to get a gestor? I do speak Spanish, but not legalese.


I use a gestor for all my paperwork - they tend to know the answers

even if you didn't keep one on retainer as I do, a one-off appointment doesn't usually cost that much


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## NathanInSpain (Sep 23, 2012)

Hi Maupow,

Sorry I don't know specifically about young people discount - but if you find out let me know!

As far as I'm aware though giving english lessons is tax exempt so you shouldn't need to pay tax. There is an exception where the client is a company rather than an individual. I'm not sure if it makes a difference that an academy is paying you rather than the client directly though.

I know you don't have to pay social security if you earn less than 600 euros a month. Not relevant to you but perhaps a less scrupulous person might only declare less than that amount to the tax man......


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

NathanInSpain said:


> Hi Maupow,
> 
> Sorry I don't know specifically about young people discount - but if you find out let me know!
> 
> ...


giving English lessons is IVA exempt - but not income tax exempt

with the 600€ a month thing - do you know if you have to register as autónomo, pay the NI & then claim it back, or if you just don't register?

also - is it averaged out - say one month you earn 800€ & the next just 300€ - does that work?

I really must ask my gestor about that!


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## NathanInSpain (Sep 23, 2012)

Ah I see about the IVA thing.

By the sound if it you just don't have the register if you earn under 600. I will I'm just paraphrasing what the lawyer said. I'll paste it here for you:

"The self-employ is a good option to complement your incomes. When you start your activity you should communicate it to the Agencia Tributaria (Tax Agency) and you need a NIE (spanish tax number for foreigners). After that, the Social Security establishes the obligation of paying the SS for “continuing activity with regular incomes”. That means that only in the case your incomes are more than the minimum salary (+- 600 euros) you should pay the Social Security.



So, you will need a NIE that you can obtain now in the nearest Consulate of Spain or here in Spain.



Once here in Spain as English tutor, when you invoice your services you don’t have to include VAT because this activity is exempt but when you make invoices to companies (only to companies) you should include a deduction of 8% (the first 2 years, after 21%) of the invoice in advance of your income tax return."


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

I've just posted this on another thread - but it's relevant here too..............

I've seen my gestor this morning









he says that there is no official '600€' threshold below which you don't have to declare - if you are working AT ALL you are supposed to register as autónomo

he did say that most people earning so little wouldn't bother - but that then of course they would really be working illegally & the autónomo system is one of the reason so many do & that's (in his opinion) the main reason this country is in the mess it's in

under 30s do pay less though - I think he said 183€ a month


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## NathanInSpain (Sep 23, 2012)

xabiachica said:


> he says that there is no official '600€' threshold below which you don't have to declare - if you are working AT ALL you are supposed to register as autónomo
> 
> he did say that most people earning so little wouldn't bother - but that then of course they would really be working illegally & the autónomo system is one of the reason so many do & that's (in his opinion) the main reason this country is in the mess it's in


I see thanks for that. I guess what my lawyer is saying is that you only have the declare if its 'regular income' (although from what you say yours disagrees on that too :/) and that if you're earning under 600 then the authorities will regard it as not regular. A bit of a nonsense really isnt it :/. I can't understand at all why parliament haven't made it clear. Frustrating.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

NathanInSpain said:


> I see thanks for that. I guess what my lawyer is saying is that you only have the declare if its 'regular income' (although from what you say yours disagrees on that too :/) and that if you're earning under 600 then the authorities will regard it as not regular. A bit of a nonsense really isnt it :/. I can't understand at all why parliament haven't made it clear. Frustrating.


I think it's the 'regular' bit that counts

if you are doing the occasional class here & there, or making a little bit of money now & then on e-bay, or selling hand made greetings cards on an ad hoc basis - then that's not regular


but if you are teaching the same clients each week, even if you are only doing maybe 4 hours a week that's regular......


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## CampoKid (Mar 29, 2012)

The law is pretty clear on this; if you receive money by way of selling services or products, no matter how small the sums involved, you must register as Autonomo and pay the set fee every month. 

Never assume that a Gestor is telling you the truth - they are simply the managers in the great Spanish game of tax evasion, and it isn't them who would end up in prison.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

CampoKid said:


> The law is pretty clear on this; if you receive money by way of selling services or products, no matter how small the sums involved, you must register as Autonomo and pay the set fee every month.
> 
> Never assume that a Gestor is telling you the truth - they are simply the managers in the great Spanish game of tax evasion, and it isn't them who would end up in prison.


exactly - but no-one really expects anyone to declare the odd bit of income - if you just make a few Euro here & there on an occasional basis

it's just at what level does 'a bit now & then' become 'regular income' ?

it really would help if the govt would sort this out properly once & for all


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## MauPow (Oct 2, 2012)

Thanks for the great info guys. So to get this straight:

(19.5x18) * 4 = €1404 monthly. 

1404-183 = €1221.

Teachers don't pay IVA apparently, so my take home would be €1221, correct? My work is through a company who sets me up with clients. I go through them and would make my invoices to the English services company, not the client itself (a hospital, some manufacturing plants, and a bank). Would this 8% deduction apply here? Since I'll be making more than €600 monthly without fail, that information wouldn't apply to me.

Thanks for the info guys, I am only 24 and my father took care of all my taxes when I was living in the states, so this is a taste of the big scary world out there  

One more question, I am perfectly happy with €18/hr, but is this a decent rate? I have heard figures of €25-30 for autonomo, though I have never been offered them in the real world.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

MauPow said:


> Thanks for the great info guys. So to get this straight:
> 
> (19.5x18) * 4 = €1404 monthly.
> 
> ...


I think that's a decent rate if you have someone setting all the clients up for you

I can make quite a lot more than that an hour, but I set up all my own business


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