# Riding the Mordida Express



## Hound Dog (Jan 18, 2009)

Does mordida as a system of governance offend you? Is it more offensive at the street level between you and the street cop or at the municipal level between you and a court appointed functionary who may or may not be corrupt and, believe me, you will never know until you become fodder for the mill with no appellate proceedings even remotely possible. 

The roadside mordida process can be good and it can be bad as is true of all processes used to facilitate compliance with the law by ordinary citizens anywhere. If you are truly guilty of an infraction, mordida expedites the penalty process:and you can move on at reasonable cost. If you are set up, on the other hand by a crooked cop, the process is annoying to say the least. However, whether you pay for corruption at the street level or at the courthouse level, the simple fact that you pay your multa at city hall does not cure the problem if the municipal or state authorities are on the take.

The best solution is to negotiate your best deal and move on whether you are in Mexico or Nebraska.

Sanctimony is worth less than one centavo.


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## Guategringo (Nov 9, 2012)

Hound Dog said:


> Does mordida as a system of governance offend you? Is it more offensive at the street level between you and the street cop or at the municipal level between you and a court appointed functionary who may or may not be corrupt and, believe me, you will never know until you become fodder for the mill with no appellate proceedings even remotely possible.
> 
> The roadside mordida process can be good and it can be bad as is true of all processes used to facilitate compliance with the law by ordinary citizens anywhere. If you are truly guilty of an infraction, mordida expedites the penalty process:and you can move on at reasonable cost. If you are set up, on the other hand by a crooked cop, the process is annoying to say the least. However, whether you pay for corruption at the street level or at the courthouse level, the simple fact that you pay your multa at city hall does not cure the problem if the municipal or state authorities are on the take.
> 
> ...


Dawg,
I have ridden that express numerous times in my years in Latin America. Twice in Guatemala. Once with the government entity in charge of tourism and once with the courts over an issue with taxes for a business profit. Both times the situation was resolved so that both parties were pleased with the outcome. I also have ridden that express in Mexico with regard to a residency issue and that too was taken care of in a fashon where both parties were pleased with the final outcome. And of course too many times to count in Guatemala, Costa Rica, Honduras, El Salvador, Panama and Nicaragua with transit police for moving infractions, illegal parking, parking over the limit, etc. etc. etc.

Negotiating is the key to the process as the person who thinks they have the upper hand tries to turn things in their favor. However, the key is not to allow that to happen by being firm with how you stand and not allow all of what they want or request. 

Neither level bothers me since I see it done often on the street with traffic cops, at the municipal level and in the court system. Many will say it is a cop out or a way to allow the corrupt system to continue I say to each his own. I have worked in the region full time for 20 years and know what works, how and why. 

They all are on the take from the street level to the casa presidencial and do not believe anything different or you are fooling yourself.


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

Maybe I've been lucky, but I've never been asked for or paid a mordida.


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## vantexan (Sep 4, 2011)

Isla Verde said:


> Maybe I've been lucky, but I've been asked for or paid a mordida.


Sorry, just in that kind of mood, but are you saying you were asked for when a mordida a was paid? :rofl:


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## GARYJ65 (Feb 9, 2013)

Mordida, payoff, whatever the name is used, is corrupt and not legal, even though there are some people who defend it, saying it is widely used, and expedites things, I think it is a resource to get out of a problem when we did wrong, therefore, if we did wrong, we should pay for our actions, not payoff.
If corrupt people ask or demand for bribe, we should NOT pay, otherwise we are participating as equals in a corruption act, no matter how we try to explain.

Lastly, we should not discuss how or when to perform bribing acts, it's forbidden in the forum


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

vantexan said:


> Sorry, just in that kind of mood, but are you saying you were asked for when a mordida a was paid? :rofl:


Sorry about that. When I typed that message, I left out "never". I've just corrected my post, so it now reads "Maybe I've been lucky, but I've never been asked for or paid a mordida."


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## ehw23 (Sep 21, 2012)

GARYJ65 said:


> Mordida, payoff, whatever the name is used, is corrupt and not legal, even though there are some people who defend it, saying it is widely used, and expedites things, I think it is a resource to get out of a problem when we did wrong, therefore, if we did wrong, we should pay for our actions, not payoff.
> If corrupt people ask or demand for bribe, we should NOT pay, otherwise we are participating as equals in a corruption act, no matter how we try to explain.
> 
> Lastly, we should not discuss how or when to perform bribing acts, it's forbidden in the forum


It seems as if this is okay to discuss here and not forbidden? I see a moderator who has posted twice already in this thread so I dont think its forbidden unless they think so. 

It is one of the unwritten laws regarding mordidas... it may be 'illegal' to pay mordidas but that is how Mexico negotiates during times where both parties feel it necessary to move on. I hear of all these stories of people refusing to pay a little mordida and them ending up not having to pay a dime (great for those people)...but I ASSURE you that one of these days, they will run into the wrong person asking for a mordida and they very well may regret that decision for the rest of their life when they are sitting in jail ...in Mexico. 

If you want to think of it this way...pretend you are paying the persons salary because you know they dont make as much as they should 

Its called a DONATION for being allowed to live in Mexico expats hahaha. Mordidas will forever be a part of Mexico and many other countries including US.


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## Hound Dog (Jan 18, 2009)

_


Isla Verde said:



Maybe I've been lucky, but I've never been asked for or paid a mordida.

Click to expand...

_But, Isla, mi amiga, unless I am mistaken, you live and work in the extended center of Mexico City and do not drive. Not driving in the realm of the _Troll Under The Bridge_ relieves one of the necessity of occasionally paying the troll for unencumbered passage in life and, believe me, the alternative of appearing before the local bench in some God-Forsaken hellhole, whether in Mexico, the U.S. or anywhere else on the planet is not even to be contemplated. You commit an infraction and you pay on the spot. What the hell do you care what corrupt pocket that goes into - the cop or some slimy judge out in Neverland. 

If you have had a few glasses of vino at a restaurant and wish to drive yourself home afterwards as there is no alternative, thank God you are in Mexico and not France or California if you suffer from an encounter with the road cops who analyse your breath. Mordida beats a jail cell anyday and, once you are there and in the Gulag, you will learn the true meaning of corruption. Pay the frigging mordida and move on.


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

Hound Dog said:


> But, Isla, mi amiga, unless I am mistaken, you live and work in the extended center of Mexico City and do not drive. Not driving in the realm of the _Troll Under The Bridge_ relieves one of the necessity of occasionally paying the troll for unencumbered passage in life and, believe me, the alternative of appearing before the local bench in some God-Forsaken hellhole, whether in Mexico, the U.S. or anywhere else on the planet is not even to be contemplated. You commit an infraction and you pay on the spot. What the hell do you care what corrupt pocket that goes into - the cop or some slimy judge out in Neverland.


HD, amigo mío, you've hit the nail on the head! The fact that I don't own a car and don't drive protects me from 90% of the situations where a mordida is asked for in our México lindo y querido. The only trolls I am apt to encounter are of the online variety!


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## ehw23 (Sep 21, 2012)

Hound Dog said:


> But, Isla, mi amiga, unless I am mistaken, you live and work in the extended center of Mexico City and do not drive. Not driving in the realm of the _Troll Under The Bridge_ relieves one of the necessity of occasionally paying the troll for unencumbered passage in life and, believe me, the alternative of appearing before the local bench in some God-Forsaken hellhole, whether in Mexico, the U.S. or anywhere else on the planet is not even to be contemplated. You commit an infraction and you pay on the spot. What the hell do you care what corrupt pocket that goes into - the cop or some slimy judge out in Neverland.
> 
> If you have had a few glasses of vino at a restaurant and wish to drive yourself home afterwards as there is no alternative, thank God you are in Mexico and not France or California if you suffer from an encounter with the road cops who analyse your breath. Mordida beats a jail cell anyday and, once you are there and in the Gulag, you will learn the true meaning of corruption. Pay the frigging mordida and move on.


YES!

I want to let you in on something that I do when here. I always..ALWAYS..have a plan B for when I am out-n-about & vulnerable. I bring my decoy wallet that has a few extra pesos in it and some random business cards so that if I ever get jacked by someone or bribed by the police, I have a certain amount of money I am willing to forfeit in that decoy wallet. I always have extra money on me for mordida reasons...its only smart if you are a Mexican expat who goes out everyday(esp in the city). 

Mordida money is always on me...you never know what can happen.


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## ehw23 (Sep 21, 2012)

...I know, sounds crazy. Thats just how I am and may seem a little awkward to most


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## AlanMexicali (Jun 1, 2011)

ehw23 said:


> YES!
> 
> I want to let you in on something that I do when here. I always..ALWAYS..have a plan B for when I am out-n-about & vulnerable. I bring my decoy wallet that has a few extra pesos in it and some random business cards so that if I ever get jacked by someone or bribed by the police, I have a certain amount of money I am willing to forfeit in that decoy wallet. I always have extra money on me for mordida reasons...its only smart if you are a Mexican expat who goes out everyday(esp in the city).
> 
> Mordida money is always on me...you never know what can happen.


I have the same system and have since 2006. I use a front pocket instead of a second wallet. My back pocket wallet doesn´t have much in it. My bills are sorted front [small] to back and folded and I have a reserve mordida bill so I know what is going to come out of my pocket at all times.


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## Hound Dog (Jan 18, 2009)

[_QUOTE=ehw23;1196357]YES!

I want to let you in on something that I do when here. I always..ALWAYS..have a plan B for when I am out-n-about & vulnerable. I bring my decoy wallet that has a few extra pesos in it and some random business cards so that if I ever get jacked by someone or bribed by the police, I have a certain amount of money I am willing to forfeit in that decoy wallet. I always have extra money on me for mordida reasons...its only smart if you are a Mexican expat who goes out everyday(esp in the city). 

Mordida money is always on me...you never know what can happen.[/QUOTE]_

That is a good plan. However, if you are the victim of an accident down in Chiapas near the Guatemala border, the local cops will steal your wallet while "rescuing" you and if you have two wallets they will steal them both plus. in our case, the jack and everything they can make off with easily while you lie there suffering.

The local Tapachula cops stole everything and we complained to the Federales who then stole whatever was left, 

Total and absolute corruption from the local to the state to the federal level. I have lived full time in Mexico for 12 years and love this country but corruption is absolute and all-pervasive. Iif you can adjust to it, you can live with it and damn well enjoy it here but sanctimony wil get you nowhere.


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## GARYJ65 (Feb 9, 2013)

ehw23 said:


> It seems as if this is okay to discuss here and not forbidden? I see a moderator who has posted twice already in this thread so I dont think its forbidden unless they think so.
> 
> It is one of the unwritten laws regarding mordidas... it may be 'illegal' to pay mordidas but that is how Mexico negotiates during times where both parties feel it necessary to move on. I hear of all these stories of people refusing to pay a little mordida and them ending up not having to pay a dime (great for those people)...but I ASSURE you that one of these days, they will run into the wrong person asking for a mordida and they very well may regret that decision for the rest of their life when they are sitting in jail ...in Mexico.
> 
> ...


I do not pretend, I do not call things by different names, corruption is that, corruption. If you DO participate, shame on you.
And that story about ending in a mexican jail, is crap. If you don't do anything wrong, you do not end up in any freaking jail!
You cannot ASSURE nothing like that, that is speculation and therefore cannot be ASSURED
Sorry, I think and act different


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## GARYJ65 (Feb 9, 2013)

Hound Dog said:


> But, Isla, mi amiga, unless I am mistaken, you live and work in the extended center of Mexico City and do not drive. Not driving in the realm of the Troll Under The Bridge relieves one of the necessity of occasionally paying the troll for unencumbered passage in life and, believe me, the alternative of appearing before the local bench in some God-Forsaken hellhole, whether in Mexico, the U.S. or anywhere else on the planet is not even to be contemplated. You commit an infraction and you pay on the spot. What the hell do you care what corrupt pocket that goes into - the cop or some slimy judge out in Neverland.
> 
> If you have had a few glasses of vino at a restaurant and wish to drive yourself home afterwards as there is no alternative, thank God you are in Mexico and not France or California if you suffer from an encounter with the road cops who analyse your breath. Mordida beats a jail cell anyday and, once you are there and in the Gulag, you will learn the true meaning of corruption. Pay the frigging mordida and move on.


Or...do not think about driving after a few drinks, since that not only is illegal, but also irresponsible

I very clearly understand that in my Country it is still common or very common to bribe, but we should do things to change that, mostly expats, please, don' t come here to misbehave


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## Hound Dog (Jan 18, 2009)

[_QUOTE=GARYJ65;1196563]Or...do not think about driving after a few drinks, since that not only is illegal, but also irresponsible

I very clearly understand that in my Country it is still common or very common to bribe, but we should do things to change that, mostly expats, please, don' t come here to misbehave[/QUOTE]_

A fine sentiment, Gary and absolutely, unquestionnably morally correct. An especially moral stance for one living in Queretaro, a large, spread-out city with three pleasant plazas in its historic center filled with bars and restaurants but with residential areas spread out into infinity and dependent on the automobile for mobility. If one is to patronize the downtown restaurants and enjoy sharing a bottle of wine with companions then, in that city, normally, one must drive home which may be some distance away from that restaurant. There is no question that even indulging in one glass of wine or a beer with dinner is irresponsible and an act deserving of contempt if one knows one must then drive to get home but, after all, we are, for the moment anyway, on earth which is filled with irresponsible human beings at least for now.

As for expats coming here to misbehave, I lived in the U.S., France and many other places in my life and I have never lived in a country with more irresponsible drunkards driving on the highways than in Mexico and I am talking about locals - not expats. On Lake Chapala there is, as is commonplace all over Mexico, an area of family restaurants concentrated in nearby resort areas - in this case, on the lake at San Juan Cosala where people, in this case, Tapitios (Guadalajarans) come with their families to dine and get drunk on Sundays and then drive back to Guadalajara looped out of their minds and this is so bad that I try to never be on the road from Chapala to San Juan on any Sunday so don´t be singling out expats as the offenders. We have the same problem in Chiapas, some 1,500 kilometers from Lake Chapala and the crooked cops in both places are out there raking in the mordida before putting the borracho embiciles back behind the wheel to endanger everybody between the mordida point and whereever they are destined to go.

One other thing. If I choose to pay the "little bite" to a crooked roadside cop rather than inconvenience myself and pay later to a crooked migistrate because that is the alternative presented me by the institutionally corrupt system long in place before I got here and destined to be here long after I´m gone, that´s my business.


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## Guategringo (Nov 9, 2012)

Hound Dog said:


> [_QUOTE=GARYJ65;1196563]
> 
> One other thing. If I choose to pay the "little bite" to a crooked roadside cop rather than inconvenience myself and pay later to a crooked migistrate because that is the alternative presented me by the institutionally corrupt system long in place before I got here and destined to be here long after I´m gone, that´s my business._


_

I completely agree. Gary should be telling the 115 million plus living in Mexico to behave themselves not the expats who for the most part are retired, bring money into the economy, buy homes, rent homes, travel, etc etc... Imagine if they all left, how it would effect the economy especially in places like Lake Chapala, PV, the Riviera Maya, etc etc_


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

Guategringo said:


> I completely agree. Gary should be telling the 115 million plus living in Mexico to behave themselves not the expats who for the most part are retired, bring money into the economy, buy homes, rent homes, travel, etc etc... Imagine if they all left, how it would effect the economy especially in places like Lake Chapala, PV, the Riviera Maya, etc etc


I can't see a mass exodus of expats from Mexico City having any discernible effect on the local economy though what you say may be true for expat enclaves like Lake Chapala and so on.


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## Hound Dog (Jan 18, 2009)

[_QUOTE=Isla Verde;1197350]I can't see a mass exodus of expats from Mexico City having any discernible effect on the local economy though what you say may be true for expat enclaves like Lake Chapala and so on.[/QUOTE]_

A mass exodus from the urban part of Lake Chapala known colloquially as "Lakeside" (from about the Poncitlan Municipal line to about the West of the Jocotepec Municipal line) would change the economic situation in that part of Lake Chapala significantly but whether for better or worse is a matter of conjecture. The community here was here in one form or another far before the Spanish invasion. Who´s to say if today´s configuration is superior to what might have been had there been no influx of foreigners changing the dynamics of the community to suit their needs.

One doesn´t ever really hear what locals think about these changes to their community that are good for some and not so good or really bad for others. In the 1970s, my home community of Gulf Shores, Alabama began to experience a large influx of Canadian and Midwestern snowbirds whose demand for housing drove up prices significantly, especially on the beach, and many Alabamians who had planned to retire on the beach there were priced out of the market by refugees from the frozen tundra. Was that a good thing? It´s according to whom you ask. For real estate agents and owners of pizza and hamburger joints as well as other restaurateurs, the phenomenon was a gold mine but for the average Alabama person who had planned to retire on the Gulf, this influx of extranjeros overpaying for beacjh lands was a disiater.

The people of Gulf Shores don´t complain to the Canadians or other northerners seeking the sun just like the folks in "Lakeside" don´t complain to the extranjeros who come here to Lake Chapala but, believe me, they are not universally happy about this so lay low folks.


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## Hound Dog (Jan 18, 2009)

I should make one thing clear. When I write of the efficiency of the mordida syatem where one pays for moving violation infractions on the spot versus the more ponderous and time consuming system of paying for traffic infractions through the method of honoring traffic tickets by paying fines through a judicial process requiring an in-person presence at a municipal facility, I meant to infer that this is appropriate when one has clearly and admittedly committted an infraction. When one is stopped by a roadside cop thug on trumped up charges, one should pursue legal recourse through the court system although it is likely that in any jurisfdiction employing such slimy thugs as road warriors, everybody else is just as crooked so it remains best to pay any fines within reason and get the hell out of there ASAP.

If you are a mark in any given territory then you are a mark. Back in my home town in South Alabama in the 1950s, if you were a black guy driving a Lincoln or Cadillac with Michigan license plates, you were going to get a ticket no matter what you did.

. You paid it and got your ass back to Detroit on the Midnight Express.


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## GARYJ65 (Feb 9, 2013)

Guategringo said:


> I completely agree. Gary should be telling the 115 million plus living in Mexico to behave themselves not the expats who for the most part are retired, bring money into the economy, buy homes, rent homes, travel, etc etc... Imagine if they all left, how it would effect the economy especially in places like Lake Chapala, PV, the Riviera Maya, etc etc


I do understand perfectly the bribing problem in Mexico, and that the main offenders are nationals, anyway, as we have expats coming over, they should at least be law abiding people instead of misbehaving. We have a saying: ya eramos muchos y la abuela parió!

As for the expats leaving the country and not helping with economy...we could find our way of doing things, trust me. That is somethingthat we will never know. Same as if latinos come back to their original countries...who would do their jobs?


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## GARYJ65 (Feb 9, 2013)

Hound Dog said:


> I should make one thing clear. When I write of the efficiency of the mordida syatem where one pays for moving violation infractions on the spot versus the more ponderous and time consuming system of paying for traffic infractions through the method of honoring traffic tickets by paying fines through a judicial process requiring an in-person presence at a municipal facility, I meant to infer that this is appropriate when one has clearly and admittedly committted an infraction. When one is stopped by a roadside cop thug on trumped up charges, one should pursue legal recourse through the court system although it is likely that in any jurisfdiction employing such slimy thugs as road warriors, everybody else is just as crooked so it remains best to pay any fines within reason and get the hell out of there ASAP.
> 
> If you are a mark in any given territory then you are a mark. Back in my home town in South Alabama in the 1950s, if you were a black guy driving a Lincoln or Cadillac with Michigan license plates, you were going to get a ticket no matter what you did.
> 
> . You paid it and got your ass back to Detroit on the Midnight Express.


I really understand what you are saying, there was a tv ad showing a person, I believe it was a lady, paying off a policeman, it showed the policeman very happy about receiving the bribe, then, it showed the lady, now a kidnap victim and the same policeman asking for the ransom.
Things should change, it has to start somewhere with someone. I like to expedite things too and get back to business, but I've been a kidnapping victim myself, perhaps you understand my position now. I would not wish anyone to be in the ad's second part ( as victims) and then remember how they supported the system, if we can call it so


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