# Filing Fbar



## FilingLate

Guys i have a few questions on Fbar.

i am about to go through the Domestic Streamline process

I have 2 questions

1) Do i need to type my Canadian passport number or will SS do fine or is it both?

2) Back in 2008 i closed my Canadian corp unfortunately i didn't close the bank account till 2011 and now i am wondering how would i list this account as?
Should i list is as personal or Corp? If i list it as corp the corp was closed in 2008?

Thanks


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## diharv

FilingLate said:


> Guys i have a few questions on Fbar.
> 
> i am about to go through the Domestic Streamline process
> 
> I have 2 questions
> 
> 1) Do i need to type my Canadian passport number or will SS do fine or is it both?
> 
> 2) Back in 2008 i closed my Canadian corp unfortunately i didn't close the bank account till 2011 and now i am wondering how would i list this account as?
> Should i list is as personal or Corp? If i list it as corp the corp was closed in 2008?
> 
> Thanks


If you have a SSN , use it. Once you type it in you will not need any foreign id numbers . As for your second question , I too have personal and corp bank accts but I just listed them under either single acct holder or accts held in joint if my wife's name was on them. I'm not worrying about personal vs corp mumbo jumbo. One long FBAR for everything I own , not gonna make it more complex than it needs to be.


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## FilingLate

Awesome

But wont they be able to tell if an account is corp or personal?
Just curious


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## BBCWatcher

I'm hard pressed to think of an occasion when a Canadian passport number would _ever_ be reported on a U.S. tax return or financial reporting form. Where are you seeing that?

FBAR (and FATCA) are very simple: who is the account holder of record (or account holders)? If the account holder is you, personally, it goes in the top section of the FBAR. If it's a corporation, and you have signature authority over the account (or equivalent), it goes in the other section for signature authority accounts. If it's joint it goes in the joint account holder section. I don't think it's complicated.

So, when you get bank statements for this account (online or paper), who (or what) is the account holder? That's exactly how you report the account.


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## FilingLate

Correct but Bev my question is that my corporation was closed in 2008 the bank account tied to the corp closed in 2011.

If i file fbar won't IRS be interested to know why i haven't filed corp taxes? Which i shouldn't have since the corp was closed?


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## BBCWatcher

Maybe they'd be curious. Probably not. But that's the explanation.

What alternative are you suggesting? To lie on your FBAR?

Good grief, there are lots of innocent people trying to act guilty. WTF?


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## Bevdeforges

FilingLate said:


> Correct but Bev my question is that my corporation was closed in 2008 the bank account tied to the corp closed in 2011.
> 
> If i file fbar won't IRS be interested to know why i haven't filed corp taxes? Which i shouldn't have since the corp was closed?


Unless there is something "funny" on your FBARs or tax filings for those years, they are simply going to file your reports away. The chances of them "checking" anything on the report is pretty slim.
Cheers,
Bev


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## BBCWatcher

It baffles me why one would even contemplate lying on a government disclosure form, under pain of criminal penalties, in exchange for the possibility (hardly certainty) of avoiding _mere questions_ (easily answered) from the IRS or the U.S. Treasury.

Hasn't anybody learned by now the cover-up is worse than the crime? Especially when there's no crime!

Simple rule: don't lie unless there's at least a _damn good reason_, and probably not even then. "The U.S. Treasury might send me a letter" is not a damn good reason.


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## FilingLate

Sorry Bev but i am not remotely trying to hide or cheat the question i asked was Corp closed in 2008 Bank account related to corp closed in 2011. How should i file Fbar for 2010 and 2011 should i still say its a corp or should i say its personal since the corp was closed.


I have to report this one way or the other i was simply trying to figure out the CORRECT way to do it.
I doubt anyone coming to the message board will try to hide or cheat, people who hide or cheat just do it they don't try to justify it by coming to message board and get someone's approval

Once again sorry you felt that way
Thanks


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## Nononymous

Well I try to hide and cheat, and I come here to persuade others that it's the right thing to do.


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## Bevdeforges

If the account was still in the company's name, you report it that way. Normally a company account can be reported in the section where they ask for accounts where you have "signature authority but no financial interest." If the account was in your name under a DBA (doing business as) registration, it probably counts as a personal account.

But they don't really ask for personal vs. corporate accounts, do they? There are accounts you own on your own, then those you hold jointly with anyone else. And the "signature authority but no financial interest." It really doesn't matter all that much whether the corporation was closed at that time or not. It's more a matter of what the name was on the account. (And there's no real penalty for reporting in the "wrong" section. They might come back and ask you about it. But as long as you've reported the account, they have what they need and want.)
Cheers,
Bev


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## Bevdeforges

Nononymous said:


> Well I try to hide and cheat, and I come here to persuade others that it's the right thing to do.


Tsk, tsk, tsk - where I come from that's called "selective compliance." Just be you "select" not to comply at all.... that's your "selection."
Cheers,
Bev


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## BBCWatcher

Again, what are you trying to accomplish by prevaricating? What's the bloody point? *So what* that the corporation was dissolved in 2008. The Pan Am Building in New York maintained its name for years after Pan Am (the company) collapsed. If somebody asked you for the name of that building, the answer would have been "the Pan Am Building." (Now the answer is "the MetLife Building.")

Answer the questions asked as they're asked, that's all.

Good grief, this isn't complicated.


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## diharv

Just lump the corp acct with all the rest of your accts! It does not matter if its corp or personal. Yhis is the way I've done it for the past 8 FBARs. My accountant who I've paid thousands and thousands to has not come back and told me I'm doing it wrong after I send him paper copies . I'm with BBCwatcher on this one. It is not complicated so don't try to make it that way. The way I see it , this is a great forum , the best actually , but there are alot of people who are insistent on looking under alot of rocks for nasty surprises and when they don't find any they try to create one where none exists. The forum is rife with fear and paranoia and I'll bet that the powers that be love it. The prospect of fines and penalties ,however rarely levied and questionably collectable has caused mass hysteria in the masses. Of course I also went through this (see my first post in the renunciation sticky) but I have decided to just do what I have to and not make this consume my life at the expense of my family. Family comes first , leisure next then job and so on. I'm going to let what I'm having for dinner tomorrow to matter more than all this BS.Do what you have to to be compliant or not but don't let it consume you. Otherwise they win. Besides I don't think they care all that much anyway. All the reports and returns coming in they're probably thinking wow its actually working , all the rhetoric from the last few years.


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## Nononymous

I think everyone has the panic reaction when they first discover the situation. I certainly did. And you have to start digging a bit before you find places like this forum, or helpful statements from the finance minister about penalties not being enforced north of the border. So it takes a while to calm down, realize that you're not exactly in trouble, and decide what (if anything) one should do about it.

Also the original poster on this thread - by his own admission; no judgement, it is what it is - suffers from OCD and seems very keen on looking under all possible rocks.


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## FilingLate

Nononymous said:


> I think everyone has the panic reaction when they first discover the situation. I certainly did. And you have to start digging a bit before you find places like this forum, or helpful statements from the finance minister about penalties not being enforced north of the border. So it takes a while to calm down, realize that you're not exactly in trouble, and decide what (if anything) one should do about it.
> 
> Also the original poster on this thread - by his own admission; no judgement, it is what it is - suffers from OCD and seems very keen on looking under all possible rocks.



Wow you have a great memory. Per my Psychiatrist massive OCD.
Its getting better though i am on prozac now.


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## FilingLate

BBCWatcher said:


> Again, what are you trying to accomplish by prevaricating? What's the bloody point? *So what* that the corporation was dissolved in 2008. The Pan Am Building in New York maintained its name for years after Pan Am (the company) collapsed. If somebody asked you for the name of that building, the answer would have been "the Pan Am Building." (Now the answer is "the MetLife Building.")
> 
> Answer the questions asked as they're asked, that's all.
> 
> Good grief, this isn't complicated.



Isnt the purpose of this forum to help others?
Everyone who comes and ask questions gets an answer. Now if your answer for every question is just report the damn thing its not that complicated.... sorry but that's not an answer.

On another note you are very helpful so thanks for that.


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## FilingLate

@Diharv

So if i get this right you have listed your corp account as personal?
From what i know if you list the account as Corp then it has a seperate Fbar reporting and i don't want to go through that hassle.
Thanks for Clearing it up for me


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## BBCWatcher

FilingLate, there is a section on the FBAR for accounts over which you have signature authority. Take a look, it's there. That's where that corporate account would get reported, isn't it?

I can't help you with your OCD.


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## Bevdeforges

Basically, there are 4 sections on the FBAR form:

1. Accounts owned separately
2. Accounts owned jointly
3. Accounts where filer has signature or other authority but no financial interest in the account
4. Accounts where filer is filing a consolidated report

In the grand scheme of things, it's probably not a huge issue if you report an account in the "wrong" section. They are mainly after the account identification information. The balance information is more for their ease of evaluating the "risk" of the account. But in general sections 1 and 2 (as indicated above - the numbering is a bit different on the actual forms) are self explanatory. 

Section 3 is weird, but usually is intended for "corporate" or association accounts where the account is in the name of the corporation, business or some other organization and the person doing the filing "only" has signature authority over the account. (There are some other technical definitions in the instructions, but basically this is the distinction.)

And section 4 is really only for organizations filing the report, mostly business entities. 
Cheers,
Bev


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## DownunderInUS

Are questions on FBAR raised in this forum because one is filing the FBAR himself? Because I assumed that the CPA that one is using should be able to answer FBAR questions. 

I am doing research and I read one that advised that the taxpayer do it himself. 

Is filing for oneself a good option?


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## Nononymous

It is if the taxpayer is capable of filing it correctly. And while I've not done so (refusing to cooperate) I'm told that it's quite simple.


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## Bevdeforges

The FBAR filing is pretty much a simple informational filing. No calculations and nothing more complicated than a listing of your overseas accounts. The "high balance" information requested is normally satisfied by a good faith estimate if access to the appropriate documents is an issue.
Cheers,
Bev


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