# For those who have a mortgage here....



## leedsutdgem (Jun 3, 2010)

Hi everyone,

Just wanted to ask. Does anyone on here have something called a "clausula suelo" on their mortgage. I just wanted to make people aware of this as theres been nothing about it in the expat newspapers. In 2008 my husband and myself signed for what we thought was a variable mortgage. Euribor +0.75 were our conditions. The euribor then started to go down and so would our mortgage, or so we thought. When it didnt go down we went to the bank (unicaja) and they informed us that we had a 3.5% minimum on our mortgage or a "clausula suelo". This is something that the bank does to protect themselves from the euribor going low. Another case of the spanish banks conning people. At no time in our negociations with the bank were we informed of this. The notary did not mention it either when we went to sign. 
So, i just wanted people to check their mortgages and make sue that they dont have this. There are 4 million families affected by it. I am honestly getting so sick and tired of this country.


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## leedsutdgem (Jun 3, 2010)

leedsutdgem said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> Just wanted to ask. Does anyone on here have something called a "clausula suelo" on their mortgage. I just wanted to make people aware of this as theres been nothing about it in the expat newspapers. In 2008 my husband and myself signed for what we thought was a variable mortgage. Euribor +0.75 were our conditions. The euribor then started to go down and so would our mortgage, or so we thought. When it didnt go down we went to the bank (unicaja) and they informed us that we had a 3.5% minimum on our mortgage or a "clausula suelo". This is something that the bank does to protect themselves from the euribor going low. Another case of the spanish banks conning people. At no time in our negociations with the bank were we informed of this. The notary did not mention it either when we went to sign.
> So, i just wanted people to check their mortgages and make sue that they dont have this. There are 4 million families affected by it. I am honestly getting so sick and tired of this country.


Woopsss, havent finished. In my case we are currently paying 180€ in interest too much each month for our mortgage. This clause is in the escrituras i will admit that but we just feel as if they were out to con us from the beginning. There was recently a sentence passed by the Tribunal Supremo and they have declared null and void these clauses on all BBVA, CAJAMAR and NCG mortgages, but that the money paid over the odds would not be returned to the customer!!! We are currently fighting unicaja to get ours lifted and if needs be we will take them to court over it. To this day we have paid them 8000€ in the last 4 years in extra interest. 
So, if your mortgage has not gone down over the last few years check and make sure you have no "suelo".


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## tonyinspain (Jul 18, 2011)

Funny enough i have just burofaxed sabadell for this exact thing as its been made illegal here 
I have given the bank 14 days to comply and my solicitor wrote the latter to present to the bank 
I must say the bank manager wasn't too impressed


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## gus-lopez (Jan 4, 2010)

It isn't solely a Spanish problem. UK banks used to do it as well.

They are being written into more & more UK mortgages now as they got burnt at the outset of the crisis.

What is a Cap and Collar Mortgage? | UK Mortgage Guide


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## leedsutdgem (Jun 3, 2010)

tonyinspain said:


> Funny enough i have just burofaxed sabadell for this exact thing as its been made illegal here
> I have given the bank 14 days to comply and my solicitor wrote the latter to present to the bank
> I must say the bank manager wasn't too impressed


Tony its not illegal unfortunately, ive looked into it. Whats your spanish like? You can find info about it all on a forum called Josportal.

There are families who have been evicted because of this abusive clause. Its a disgrace and something needs to be done about it.


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## cerrillo (Nov 10, 2012)

Hi, my sister lives in the UK but has a spanish mortgage on her house here with Cajamar, which I only realised last year also had Clausuelo Suelos on it, I came across a letter from somewhere on the internet which I completed and forwarded to her bank, they replied a couple of weeks later saying it was in the mortgage deed. However we had no knowledge of this and were never told about it, and I couldnt understand why her mortgage had not gone down as the Euribor had.

However I followed various bits about this in the Spanish newspapers and the three banks mentioned previously in a post including Cajamar were being taken to court in Seville and the last hearing was on the 9th May when the clause was declared null and void, there would be no back dating but it would come into effect on the 9th May. I then waited to see what her mortgage would be and she had a notification dated 14th June adjusting her mortgage payment for the monthof May, and then I checked again at the end of June and her mortgage has now been reduced to 1.9% instead of 3.25%. She only has a small mortgage but it makes a difference.

I dont know if any other banks were taken to court over this, but I would definitely get on to them.


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## tonyinspain (Jul 18, 2011)

leedsutdgem said:


> Tony its not illegal unfortunately, ive looked into it. Whats your spanish like? You can find info about it all on a forum called Josportal.
> 
> There are families who have been evicted because of this abusive clause. Its a disgrace and something needs to be done about it.


Sorry to disagree but it is illegal as it was put before the EU law courts and they have said that its illegal and the banks have to repay it to the client hence i was made aware of it 6 months ago and awaited the EU s decision in our favour 
Thats why the letter i took to my bank was written by my abogado to take into the sabdell atlanticio bank friday if you would like a copy for your bank + english translation pm me 
Regards tony


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## leedsutdgem (Jun 3, 2010)

tonyinspain said:


> Sorry to disagree but it is illegal as it was put before the EU law courts and they have said that its illegal and the banks have to repay it to the client hence i was made aware of it 6 months ago and awaited the EU s decision in our favour
> Thats why the letter i took to my bank was written by my abogado to take into the sabdell atlanticio bank friday if you would like a copy for your bank + english translation pm me
> Regards tony


Tony, sorry to disagree again.

Read this article http://www.lavanguardia.com/economi...ntencia-tribunal-supremo-hipotecas-suelo.html 
it clearly states that they are legal in Spain which my lawyer and el banco de españa have also confirmed.

The sentence on the 9th of May declared that they are null and void in those cases where there is a "falta de transparencia" (ie. where it has not been made clear to the person signing the mortgage the repercussions of the euribor going to a low level, which it has done). The 3 banks which have been condemned are BBVA, CAJAMAR and Nova Galicia. They have all removed the clausula from mortgages already signed but the tribunal has said that the customers from these banks cannot reclaim the money overpaid- an absolute disgrace!

For the rest of us its up to us now to prove that the bank did not sufficiently inform us about the clause, the Tribunal Supremo have given a list of things that the banks should have done in order to make it clear to people what they were signing for. 99% of the mortgages with a clausula suelo in spain do not have any of the things on the list of the Tribunal Supremo so it is looking good for the rest us whose bank has not been condemned. The banco de españa have given the rest of he banks until the 31/7 to examine their escrituras so watch this space I suppose.

It is going to be a long drawn out process, i am currently waiting on an answer from unicaja to a letter i wrote to them just after the 9th of may sentence. If they dont remove it then we will be taking legal action against them. It will cost us 1500€ but well worth it. We will not reclaim the money overpaid as the Tribunal Supremo says you cant and no judge will go against what they say. 

Good luck with it all. I will keep you posted about how we get on.


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## tonyinspain (Jul 18, 2011)

Same here good luck seems like different rules different regions my abogado seems in the know as this was planned 6 months ago so thats why only friday i hit them with the letter informing them that if they don't comply in 14 days i will take action for fraud watch this space
One thing brits are is tenacious and I'm like a terrier i don't quit
Ill keep you posted 
Regards


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## leedsutdgem (Jun 3, 2010)

tonyinspain said:


> Same here good luck seems like different rules different regions my abogado seems in the know as this was planned 6 months ago so thats why only friday i hit them with the letter informing them that if they don't comply in 14 days i will take action for fraud watch this space
> One thing brits are is tenacious and I'm like a terrier i don't quit
> Ill keep you posted
> Regards


Ooh i wont be giving up either. They've done this to the wrong person.


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## sunstroke (Jan 9, 2014)

*BancSabadell Clausula Sueto*

Hi guys,

I´m intrigued by this thread as I've only become aware that the Spanish System has finally taken it upon themselves to address the situation of "Clausula Suelo".

I don't mind sharing with you that my family has been struggling since 2010 with our mortgage. We sold up from N. Ireland in 2006, when our 3 children where all below secondary education; with a view to ensuring a better life for them, away from "the troubles", into a fantastic outdoor life filled with interest and untold freedom.

We have absolutely no regrets on that front! Spain has opened up such a world of choice and stability for the children/(some now adults) that we are happy that they will grow further to be the confident, well mannered (and hopefully successful) offspring that we envisaged - by moving.

The sad thing is that we, as parents - 53yrs & 40yrs - are quietly suffering in the background because of our mortgage. We have been caught by the forms we signed with BancSabadell on the day of our mortgage. Minimum 4%.

Our no.2 child is at University this year and we feel even more compelled to assist financially. My wife, who is Catalan, is not so stressed as she is used to the "Spanish System", but I am pulling my hair out at the thought that these "anonymous" bank administrators and staff, who have us 'dance' merrily to their tunes, don't lose sleep over their sharp practices to normal family folk!

I wish to challenge my bank, BancSabadell, in the very near future. They have me held to a 2.0% interest rate + Eurobor. [that equates to 2.55 at the moment]

Yet they have me held to 4.0% since 2008, when the Eurobor dipped below 1%. This is hundreds of pounds every month!

I would love to hear from someone who has been successful against their Spanish bank recently, or even those who have taken recent legal advice in Spain. Is there an opportunity to "grab back" to 2008?

I will endeavour to keep you all updated with my own experiences, as I live them, with challenging my bank - BancSabadell in Barcelona - in my venture for fair treatment.

Best wishes,

Stephen


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

One must question who was your legal adviser at the time of purchase because she/he should have made sure that you were aware of all the relevant clauses in the agreements.


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## sunstroke (Jan 9, 2014)

baldilocks said:


> One must question who was your legal adviser at the time of purchase because she/he should have made sure that you were aware of all the relevant clauses in the agreements.


Two points to your post.

1. "Legal Advisors" are something we should all consider nowadays, after the crisis situation of 2008.

2. Having come from a country which is highly 'in favour' of the consumer, one began to trust that ones dealings in every heavily regulated industry will adopt the same trustworthy stance, to both parties.

Granted we have all learnt now Not to assume trust from conglamorates; but we must not shy away from the fact that people are honest at heart! It is prudent to assume that where there is anonimity.....or where no one person will assume responsibility...then we have to be-AWARE!


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## sunstroke (Jan 9, 2014)

I am also open to experiences of those who have "moved" mortages from one Spanish bank to another; in the hope of not getting caught with the same "Clausula Suelo" clause.

Perhaps it is worthwhile spending the extra money to ensure the benefits of a low Eurobor rate?

Stephen


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## sunstroke (Jan 9, 2014)

baldilocks said:


> One must question who was your legal adviser at the time of purchase because she/he should have made sure that you were aware of all the relevant clauses in the agreements.


Admonishment is no substitute for advice


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## tonyinspain (Jul 18, 2011)

sunstroke said:


> Hi guys, I´m intrigued by this thread as I've only become aware that the Spanish System has finally taken it upon themselves to address the situation of "Clausula Suelo". I don't mind sharing with you that my family has been struggling since 2010 with our mortgage. We sold up from N. Ireland in 2006, when our 3 children where all below secondary education; with a view to ensuring a better life for them, away from "the troubles", into a fantastic outdoor life filled with interest and untold freedom. We have absolutely no regrets on that front! Spain has opened up such a world of choice and stability for the children/(some now adults) that we are happy that they will grow further to be the confident, well mannered (and hopefully successful) offspring that we envisaged - by moving. The sad thing is that we, as parents - 53yrs & 40yrs - are quietly suffering in the background because of our mortgage. We have been caught by the forms we signed with BancSabadell on the day of our mortgage. Minimum 4%. Our no.2 child is at University this year and we feel even more compelled to assist financially. My wife, who is Catalan, is not so stressed as she is used to the "Spanish System", but I am pulling my hair out at the thought that these "anonymous" bank administrators and staff, who have us 'dance' merrily to their tunes, don't lose sleep over their sharp practices to normal family folk! I wish to challenge my bank, BancSabadell, in the very near future. They have me held to a 2.0% interest rate + Eurobor. [that equates to 2.55 at the moment] Yet they have me held to 4.0% since 2008, when the Eurobor dipped below 1%. This is hundreds of pounds every month! I would love to hear from someone who has been successful against their Spanish bank recently, or even those who have taken recent legal advice in Spain. Is there an opportunity to "grab back" to 2008? I will endeavour to keep you all updated with my own experiences, as I live them, with challenging my bank - BancSabadell in Barcelona - in my venture for fair treatment. Best wishes, Stephen


check this out it got upto date info and i have had problems with this bank for three years so your not alone when you can pm me ill send you the forms to get the money back clausula suelo good luck http://adwww.rdtabogados.co.uk/


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## andoba (Jan 12, 2014)

_Cláusulas suelo_ have been declared illegal by the supreme court. You will be able to find many articles on the spanish press just by googling it, I'd post a link but I'm not able to (I'm not a full member yet).

Sadly, banks aren't too eager to follow the judgement unless forced to. If you're in the case of having a mortgage with _cláusulas suelo_ don't cease on your insistence as justice is on your side.


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## leedsutdgem (Jun 3, 2010)

andoba said:


> Cláusulas suelo have been declared illegal by the supreme court. You will be able to find many articles on the spanish press just by googling it, I'd post a link but I'm not able to (I'm not a full member yet). Sadly, banks aren't too eager to follow the judgement unless forced to. If you're in the case of having a mortgage with cláusulas suelo don't cease on your insistence as justice is on your side.


They are only illegal if you have a mortgage with bbva, novagalicia or cajamar. These are the 3 banks condemned by the supreme court. Clausula suelos in spain ARE legal. What though is important is how the bank informed you about the clause. There are a series of requisitos that the bank must have complied with. 99%}of the banks did not comply with these guidelines. I personally have denounced my bank Unicaja and i hope to have a date for court this month. I have also requested that they return to me ALL of the money that I have/am overpaying them each month.


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## Qualmpeddle (Jan 26, 2015)

*Unicaja min. Interest*

Hi Leedsutdgem
I just found this forum and the topic affects me. I have been with Unicaja for 7 years and was also surprised my interest payments did not go down with the Euro.

What is you latest status on this, did you win your case ?

Thanks

Tim


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## sunstroke (Jan 9, 2014)

Finally!!!!!!!!!

1 year later, I have gotten a compromise with Banc-Sabadell! [Sabadell-Atlantico].

Suelo reduced from 4% to 1.5% for the next 35yrs! (end of my mortgage).

Lots of talking, lots of negotiation, lots of frustration; but eventually we came to an agreement which saves us around 500 euro per month.

Part of the agreement (Contract), was that I am not permitted to tell anyone about this.

Perhaps, my new friend, who had the same predicament, will log in sometime and tell you of his own similar Banc-Sabadell experience.

For now, I will say.................keep approaching, keep bantering, keep pressurising your bank managers and you WILL gain something!

Sunstroke


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## el romeral (May 8, 2012)

Great result. 
I can only dream of rates as low as 1.5% as I continue to line the pockets of the Banco Pastor (now Popular) bosses with hundreds of Euros a month in excessive interest paymens on my 3.5% mortgage. 
I spoke to them about it some months ago and they flatly refused to do anything about it. I think I will have another go though, in light of the above post.


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## Qualmpeddle (Jan 26, 2015)

That's great news !

Well done, so there may be hope for the rest of us.

I wonder how Leedsutdgem is getting on.


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## sunstroke (Jan 9, 2014)

One small tip in dealing with BancSabadell.

We found out that in 2008, the Crisis, all mortgage decisions were automatically re-directed to head office based in the city of Sabadell. Then, in around 2012 the Head Office gave back some authority to the branch managers again...but with very limited powers.

During all this time we were battling against our local branch manager, who didn't want to "go running" to head office. He stuck to his "limited" authority by towing the company line, that "BancSabadell was not mentioned by name in the Supreme Court ruling".

In the meantime the Sabadell head office was considering the implications of continuing to adopt this stance, in the face of growing criticism and disquiet.

My wife and I decided to attack on two fronts: she moved her bank account to the city of Sabadell head office, (on the pretence that her teaching job was taking her to Sabadell) whilst I remained with our normal branch. We then began harassing both banks with requests to reduce the Suelo.

In the end the Head Office told our local branch to "wind in their necks" and granted most of our our wishes!

They still wouldn't move on backdating over-payments, but at least we can begin to enjoy again the house that we built.

We got the feeling that the BancSabadell [Sabadell-Atlantico], is eventually going to come in line with the Supreme Court ruling...but only to those who request it. There is a certain softening happening.

So.....maybe changing your account to the Head Office branch in Sabadell might be the way to go. That is where the power base lies.

I sincerely hope this info might help some of you.

Sunstroke.


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