# water softener



## pappabee (Jun 22, 2010)

Does any one know a good company that sells and maintains water softener systems in the Lakeside Area?


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## sparks (Jun 17, 2007)

100 years ago my mom was only interested in water softeners for her laundry.. Beyond that I don't know what hard water does to your water system


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## johnmex (Nov 30, 2010)

I don't know about Lakeside, but Aquaequipos in Guadalajara is a possibility.


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## bournemouth (May 15, 2007)

pappabee said:


> Does any one know a good company that sells and maintains water softener systems in the Lakeside Area?


We're very happy with H2Ole, Revolucion 111, above the carretera. //SNIP//


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## waterwhat (Apr 25, 2012)

sparks said:


> 100 years ago my mom was only interested in water softeners for her laundry.. Beyond that I don't know what hard water does to your water system


Soft water is much easier on your skin as well. Soap suds up much easier when using soft water.

-----------------------------------------
Rivers are roads which move, and which carry us whither we desire to go.
~Blaise Pascal


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## FHBOY (Jun 15, 2010)

*Water Filter*

We asked the landlord of the house we will be renting if we need to have bottled drinking water. She said yes, but if we wanted we could install a water filter (for about $300USD) and do away with that.

My question: does it pay to do this? What are the real costs? Do they work? IS there a whole house system?


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## AlanMexicali (Jun 1, 2011)

*Bottled water*



FHBOY said:


> We asked the landlord of the house we will be renting if we need to have bottled drinking water. She said yes, but if we wanted we could install a water filter (for about $300USD) and do away with that.
> 
> My question: does it pay to do this? What are the real costs? Do they work? IS there a whole house system?


Filters work if regularly maintained but only a 3 part filter system under sink can filter out microorganisms. The filter cartridges can get expensive for the 3 part system, but a 2 part system cleans the water and filters are less cost per year, but I have been told STILL bottled water is better for drinking at $10.00 pesos refill per garafon, just to be safe, and good exercise. I know a few houses with filters but seriously doubt they are maintained correctly. Only when they are completely plugged up would I suspect they are changed. If the source water is clean then that could be a long time. Ice machines were always filtered but people still did not maintain them until the taste got fairly bad. This is probably old school now as I feel the restaurants and hotels all over now do keep them serviced every 6 months or so.

So yes they work if you invest the time and money.

Filtering the main line into the house is a different system than drinking water systems. I am considering getting a whole house system. The cistern under our garage floor does a good job of elimination of particles from water [settles to the bottom] that is pumped up to the tinaco. These 2 have to be serviced about every year.


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## FHBOY (Jun 15, 2010)

AlanMexicali said:


> Filters work if regularly maintained but only a 3 part filter system under sink can filter out microorganisms. The filter cartridges can get expensive for the 3 part system, but a 2 part system cleans the water and filters are less cost per year, but I have been told STILL bottled water is better for drinking at $10.00 pesos refill per garafon, just to be safe, and good exercise. I know a few houses with filters but seriously doubt they are maintained correctly. Only when they are completely plugged up would I suspect they are changed. If the source water is clean then that could be a long time. Ice machines were always filtered but people still did not maintain them until the taste got fairly bad. This is probably old school now as I feel the restaurants and hotels all over now do keep them serviced every 6 months or so.
> 
> So yes they work if you invest the time and money.
> 
> Filtering the main line into the house is a different system than drinking water systems. I am considering getting a whole house system. The cistern under our garage floor does a good job of elimination of particles from water [settles to the bottom] that is pumped up to the tinaco. These 2 have to be serviced about every year.


What is/are the prices for whole house systems? I am sounding like a spoiled NOBer, I know. but I thought I'd ask anyway.


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## AlanMexicali (Jun 1, 2011)

*Water filters*



FHBOY said:


> What is/are the prices for whole house systems? I am sounding like a spoiled NOBer, I know. but I thought I'd ask anyway.


This is a common one used according to the large plumeria close to our house for $855.00 pesos and the fiber cartridges cost $313.00 pesos. 56 litros por minuto. 3 to 6 months per cartridge.

http://rotoplas.com/purificadores/?gclid=CMTo4Iip1q8CFeNeTAodPFC5_g#filtro-jumbo


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## FHBOY (Jun 15, 2010)

AlanMexicali said:


> This is a common one used according to the large plumeria close to our house for $855.00 pesos and the fiber cartridges cost $313.00 pesos. 56 litros por minuto. 3 to 6 months per cartridge.
> 
> Purificadores - Rotoplas


It looks like Rotoplas has two different systems. One is a whole house filter for sediments, the second is a microbial colloidal filter for drinking water. The second one seems localized to the individual taps, eg: one for the kitchen, another for the bath, etc. 

Let me ask a general question: is it really worth all the time and very small expense, or will we, after a while, just get acculturated to bottled water like everyone else - and it will become a habit of living?


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## mickisue1 (Mar 10, 2012)

AlanMexicali said:


> This is a common one used according to the large plumeria close to our house for $855.00 pesos and the fiber cartridges cost $313.00 pesos. 56 litros por minuto. 3 to 6 months per cartridge.
> 
> Purificadores - Rotoplas


The filter cost is good.

I need filtered water for my nutrition club, and that's about the cost for one that serves just one tap.


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## AlanMexicali (Jun 1, 2011)

FHBOY said:


> So, does this system take the need for bottled drinking water away? Does it affect the hardness of the water? $855 MXN is that the whole cost, or just the unit and then there is insatallation labor? I can't believe you'd be able to do the whole job for $855 MXN?



I could install it myself leaving the tinaco. It is just used to filter sediment, more or less. Helps keeps faucets and shower heads, washing machines, dish washers, sink water clean, bath water clean, hot water tanks ,pressure pumps from getting problems eventually. 

Bottled water for anything that you would drink is 100% the habit here.


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## pappabee (Jun 22, 2010)

Both of the places we've lived have had drinkable water. It made the transition much easier, no worry about brushing my teeth and the possible OOPS. Also living in Ajijic as we do even the ice is from bottled water. 

We do have a lot of friends who purchase bottled water some just because they like the taste better. Who knows? I really think that it's up to the individual. I will say that whole house water filtration can be a real headache if it doesn't work correctly.


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## AlanMexicali (Jun 1, 2011)

pappabee said:


> Both of the places we've lived have had drinkable water. It made the transition much easier, no worry about brushing my teeth and the possible OOPS. Also living in Ajijic as we do even the ice is from bottled water.
> 
> We do have a lot of friends who purchase bottled water some just because they like the taste better. Who knows? I really think that it's up to the individual. I will say that whole house water filtration can be a real headache if it doesn't work correctly.


I have always brushed my teeth with tap water in Mexico. One needs a little to combat microbes. I usually have a bit of stomach problems the first couple days after eating my first vendor food every time I arrive from more than a couple weeks in San Diego in Mexico. The common bacteria in the US is E-coli B, in Mexico it is E-coli A. My body needs some adjusting.


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

AlanMexicali said:


> I have always brushed my teeth with tap water in Mexico.


Me too. And I also make tea and coffee with tap water. For drinking, I use bottled water.


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## AlanMexicali (Jun 1, 2011)

Isla Verde said:


> Me too. And I also make tea and coffee with tap water. For drinking, I use bottled water.


Many years ago I lent my car to 3 couples from Canada to spend 4 nights at a resort in Baja. I told them to be careful of Margaritas in cheap bars because they don't service their ice maker's filters enough. They all went bar hopping and drank Margaritas the last night there. When they arrived to pick up their rental car from me the next morning all 6 where having not only terrible hangovers but had to stop every 20 minutes or so to take care of their cramping runs on the way back from Ensenada, about 100 mile south of San Diego. They looked terrible.

I use bottled water for coffee and cup of soup, myself. But boiling beans, noodles or making soup I use tap water. I keep the water for beans and eat frijoles de la hoya, not refried at home.


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## Grizzy (Nov 8, 2010)

My rental house lakeside has a water purification system with one faucet in the kitchen. It was in disrepair when I moved in and rather than spend money to clean it and replace the filters, test the water etc I just got used to bottled water. It is not hard and I like the taste. I wish the house had a water softening system. I use borax in laundry to soften the water and reduce the rust stains. I use vinegar in rinse water for clothes and dishes to keep the hard water marks off of them. If I bought a house here the first thing I would install is a water softening system. I get tired of the white stains on everything like faucets, shower curtains etc.


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## waterwhat (Apr 25, 2012)

FHBOY said:


> It looks like Rotoplas has two different systems. One is a whole house filter for sediments, the second is a microbial colloidal filter for drinking water. The second one seems localized to the individual taps, eg: one for the kitchen, another for the bath, etc.
> 
> Let me ask a general question: is it really worth all the time and very small expense, or will we, after a while, just get acculturated to bottled water like everyone else - and it will become a habit of living?


I currently drink both bottled water and tap water. I use bottled water more for the convenience of it than the taste (though I do love the taste of Arrowhead water). 

I am currently living in an apartment and haven't invested in a water purification system. I think it's a possibility when I move into a house and it makes more sense to invest since I'll be there a while. 

While I like bottled water, I remember hearing a podcast a while back -- maybe a year or two ago -- about how the bottled water industry is not really regulated like the public water systems (I don't think the testing of water or the requirements for public water are very high). I'd have to go back to it for specifics but from what I remember about it I think it makes sense to invest in my own filter rather than drinking bottled water forever.

-----------------------------------------
Rivers are roads which move, and which carry us whither we desire to go.
~Blaise Pascal


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## mickisue1 (Mar 10, 2012)

waterwhat said:


> I currently drink both bottled water and tap water. I use bottled water more for the convenience of it than the taste (though I do love the taste of Arrowhead water).
> 
> I am currently living in an apartment and haven't invested in a water purification system. I think it's a possibility when I move into a house and it makes more sense to invest since I'll be there a while.
> 
> ...


That's true. The two biggest bottled water companies in the US, Dasani and AquaFina, are both just (maybe) filtered tap water.

If you want to be certain that you are getting spring water, not tap water, look for the words, "bottled at the source" on the label. 

OTOH, if you can avoid drinking bottled water, or, at least, buy it in refillable bottles, you will help save literally tons of plastic waste, every year.


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## johnmex (Nov 30, 2010)

Ummm, Mikisue. 

The bottled water companies refill the "garafones" also. They wash them, sterilize them, refill them and sell it again and again. I, personally, do not trust the places that refill "garafones", do you know how often (if at all) they change their filters? I always buy "Ciel". It is the same water used to make Coca-Cola.


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## mickisue1 (Mar 10, 2012)

I'm not talking, necessarily, about the huge bottles of water purchased in MX. 

More about the single serving bottles that account for so much waste in the world at large. In the US it's awful, but it's pretty bad no matter where you go. If 1/2 liter bottles of water are available, they will become waste.


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## FHBOY (Jun 15, 2010)

johnmex said:


> Ummm, Mikisue.
> 
> The bottled water companies refill the "garafones" also. They wash them, sterilize them, refill them and sell it again and again. I, personally, do not trust the places that refill "garafones", do you know how often (if at all) they change their filters? I always buy "Ciel". It is the same water used to make Coca-Cola.


I noticed that about those 5 gallon water bottles (that is a garafones, right?). They seem to look "dirty", not crystal clear. It concerned me. Is Mexico so environmentally concerned that the water companies can't keep their containers looking clean and sparkely and toss out or recycle the ratty looking ones? Yes, I am a spoiled American about that, which is why I asked the question about filters for the house system, they just don't look clean to me.

Can you buy Ciel in a 5 gallon container?


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## AlanMexicali (Jun 1, 2011)

FHBOY said:


> I noticed that about those 5 gallon water bottles (that is a garafones, right?). They seem to look "dirty", not crystal clear. It concerned me. Is Mexico so environmentally concerned that the water companies can't keep their containers looking clean and sparkely and toss out or recycle the ratty looking ones? Yes, I am a spoiled American about that, which is why I asked the question about filters for the house system, they just don't look clean to me.
> 
> Can you buy Ciel in a 5 gallon container?


Those "dirty" looking garafones are just scratches from years of use on the outside. Walmart sells new ones for $55.00 pesos. I think Ciel comes in maximum around 2 gal. flimsy plastic bottles with a strap handle. I think Coca Cola owns it. Bonafont comes in garafones. Anyway it is all cheap compared to the US.


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## johnmex (Nov 30, 2010)

FHBOY said:


> I noticed that about those 5 gallon water bottles (that is a garafones, right?). They seem to look "dirty", not crystal clear. It concerned me. Is Mexico so environmentally concerned that the water companies can't keep their containers looking clean and sparkely and toss out or recycle the ratty looking ones? Yes, I am a spoiled American about that, which is why I asked the question about filters for the house system, they just don't look clean to me.
> 
> Can you buy Ciel in a 5 gallon container?


Yes, Ciel delivers 5 gallon "garafones" to my front door, about 3-4 a week. We pay about 25-30 pesos a "garafon". 

Mexican water companies don't reuse them to save the ecosphere, but to save pesos. Ciel's are generally cleaner than most other brands. At least here in Guadalajara.


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## ilovered (Apr 25, 2012)

try using diamond crystal with rust remover, it is a great product.


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## waterwhat (Apr 25, 2012)

mickisue1 said:


> I'm not talking, necessarily, about the huge bottles of water purchased in MX.
> 
> More about the single serving bottles that account for so much waste in the world at large. In the US it's awful, but it's pretty bad no matter where you go. If 1/2 liter bottles of water are available, they will become waste.


True. Then again, there's always recycling of those bottles. I heard that some of the recycling companies ship the plastic to China. Anybody know if there is substance to this claim? 
Made in China
used in US
Shipped back to China
--sounds wasteful.

-----------------------------------------
Rivers are roads which move, and which carry us whither we desire to go.
~Blaise Pascal


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

waterwhat said:


> True. Then again, there's always recycling of those bottles.
> 
> In Mexico City, plastic bottles of all sizes are recycled.


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## Davidc (Nov 20, 2011)

*Soft Water for Drinking?*

The answer is DON´T DRINK SOFT WATER! Ultimately, it will kill you.
It is so loaded with salt that you will turn in to that proverbial pillar of salt.


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## FHBOY (Jun 15, 2010)

Davidc said:


> The answer is DON´T DRINK SOFT WATER! Ultimately, it will kill you.
> It is so loaded with salt that you will turn in to that proverbial pillar of salt.


Interesting - never heard that before. I've got to look it up. Thanks for the tip.


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## mickisue1 (Mar 10, 2012)

waterwhat said:


> True. Then again, there's always recycling of those bottles. I heard that some of the recycling companies ship the plastic to China. Anybody know if there is substance to this claim?
> Made in China
> used in US
> Shipped back to China
> ...


As with most things like that, it depends. If you have a local recycling plant that takes that particular plastic, it will go there. If not, who knows?

Our local plant only recycles #1 and #2 plastics, in bottles. Others relatively close also recycle #5, which greatly expands the number of plastics that can be recycled close to home; yogurt containers are #5.

I eagerly await being able to recycle them.


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## waterwhat (Apr 25, 2012)

Davidc said:


> The answer is DON´T DRINK SOFT WATER! Ultimately, it will kill you.
> It is so loaded with salt that you will turn in to that proverbial pillar of salt.


I wasn't aware that soft water could kill you--but I guess if anybody has died of drinking soft water then they haven't been able to tell me about it so... 

What are your feelings about fluoride in our drinking water?


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## mickisue1 (Mar 10, 2012)

Water with salt in it is not dangerous.

Our bodies have highly refined feedback mechanisms to deal with the different levels of pH and minerals in our food and water supplies.

The only time I would avoid soft water is if I were making baby formula; their feedback systems aren't yet sophisticated enough to deal with the salt IF it's being used to soften inordinately hard water.

I'd be much more concerned about the damage to my body from the excess calcium and magnesium in hard water than the salt in softened. Not to mention the damage to my clothes, my sinks and my bathtub.


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## FHBOY (Jun 15, 2010)

mickisue1 said:


> Water with salt in it is not dangerous.
> 
> Our bodies have highly refined feedback mechanisms to deal with the different levels of pH and minerals in our food and water supplies.
> 
> ...


Hmmmm! I tend to agree, we can excrete excess salt as adults, and the body is very self regulating...so this sounds plausible...but shouldn't that also pertain to Ca and Mg salts too?

Personally, I like soft water and will pursue getting it. The NYC water was very soft and since I've lived in other places, I miss it.


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## Ken Wood (Oct 22, 2011)

mickisue1 said:


> Water with salt in it is not dangerous.
> 
> Our bodies have highly refined feedback mechanisms to deal with the different levels of pH and minerals in our food and water supplies.
> 
> ...


Having been a water professional in another lifetime, I agree with your assessment, however, having been a water professional in another lifetime, I can state that we'll reach a consensus on the Ford/Chevy question before we do on this one. The questions of what to do with hard water can tie up an entire board meeting of a water corporation, without ever coming near common ground. It's a very close argument to that of discussing the benefits/detriments of drinking mineralized water vs drinking demineralized water. Personally, I enjoy softened water and am not afraid of demineralized water, in spite of the mineral leaching theories. 

A little footnote question polled the group on the question of flouridation of water. I have worked in systems where this was done and, since I don't buy into all the dental benefits that are preached by the flouride salesmen, actually they sell fluorosilicic acid, I guess I am opposed to it, though I don't buy into all the health concerns either. In certain areas of the US, naturally fluoridated water "seems" to lead to fewer cavities amongst the populace; this is a big piece of the argument supporting artificial fluoride subsidies for water systems in areas where the water is not naturally fluoridated. We have never been completely successful when we attempt to duplicate some of Mother Nature's tricks, and I believe this is a good example.


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