# Creeping Drivers



## MrSpadge (Jun 7, 2015)

Having been over here for a bit now, I've noticed an interesting pattern of behaviour by local drivers. At traffic lights, when on red, they inch their cars forward, very slowly, bit by bit, to the extent that they've either obstructed or passed any pedestrian crossway and are all but out into the road junction.

I saw one today going south past Kings Avenue Mall, inching forward to turn left to head towards Paphos Airport. Over a minute or two he had virtually made the turn (there was no traffic coming from the other direction), and I must confess to my shame I caught myself thinking, "Just go, you ****, you're virtually round the corner anyway!" 

I mean, what is this creeping behaviour? They don't actually go until the lights change anyway. It's mental.


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## houdinibun (Oct 8, 2015)

TBH we have been visiting Paphos for years and this happens A LOT less than it used to....Our first visit in 2006 I thought traffic lights must be optional as no one seemed to stop for them!!!


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## debs21 (Mar 13, 2013)

Hang on...so those lights are not for decoration?? nor the yellow lines at the kerbside?? What about those white lines in car parks..are you meant to park between them..in fact park straight anywhere and consider other road users?? :confused2:


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## Baywatch (Mar 30, 2014)

MrSpadge said:


> Having been over here for a bit now, I've noticed an interesting pattern of behaviour by local drivers. At traffic lights, when on red, they inch their cars forward, very slowly, bit by bit, to the extent that they've either obstructed or passed any pedestrian crossway and are all but out into the road junction.
> 
> I saw one today going south past Kings Avenue Mall, inching forward to turn left to head towards Paphos Airport. Over a minute or two he had virtually made the turn (there was no traffic coming from the other direction), and I must confess to my shame I caught myself thinking, "Just go, you ****, you're virtually round the corner anyway!"
> 
> I mean, what is this creeping behaviour? They don't actually go until the lights change anyway. It's mental.


Welcome to Cyprus, 
If they took away the light on the opposite side of the crossing this would stop


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## PeteandSylv (Sep 24, 2008)

More than once I've seen the creeper go so far forward that, at certain junctions, he can't see the lights and all the traffic behind him goes hareing past when the lights change!

Pete


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## zach21uk (Jun 26, 2014)

Just add it to the long list of bad behaviour you see here. For my part I have noticed that most drivers here seem to be blissfully unaware of their mirrors existenceo or what they might be for. Almost had a pickup go into the side of me today when I was passing earlier. I was watching him carefully the whole time and he didn't bother checking his mirrors OR indicating before he tried to come out.


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## Veronica (Apr 5, 2008)

zach21uk said:


> Just add it to the long list of bad behaviour you see here. For my part I have noticed that most drivers here seem to be blissfully unaware of their mirrors existenceo or what they might be for. Almost had a pickup go into the side of me today when I was passing earlier. I was watching him carefully the whole time and he didn't bother checking his mirrors OR indicating before he tried to come out.


They rarely indicate and when they do it is when they have already started to turn.
This is just to inform themselves of what they happen to be doing at that moment.


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## MrSpadge (Jun 7, 2015)

Baywatch said:


> Welcome to Cyprus,
> If they took away the light on the opposite side of the crossing this would stop


I had to revisit this thread. I recall thinking that Anders might have had the right idea. Until...

A few days ago I was behind someone at roadwork lights in town in Paphos. Lo and behold the idiot began to creep. I watched with delight as he inched _past_ the single control light on our bit in anticipation of shaving a tenth of a second off his journey. I'd stayed back, so he could have recovered his position, although I'm sure neither his pride nor his brain cell would allow this course of action.

Anyway the traffic stopped flowing in our direction and the lights changed, and since I was enjoying the situation far too much, I didn't toot or move forward myself. He really started getting animated, swinging his head one way then the next, rocking back and forth, and generally doing everything except the sensible option of easing back a few feet so he could check and confirm his suspicion that the lights were now green.

So the lights turn to red again and traffic starts coming at us in dribs and drabs. I should mention that the system was three-way with a T-junction up the road and out of sight - us being on a blind curve, which makes his next action even more insane. Yep, he just takes off when he "sees a gap" in the traffic!

Much to my relief (I regretted not tooting him at this point, having underestimated the level of stupid he was capable of!) there was no accident further ahead. Which is impressive, considering that when I say he "took off", I mean it - the idiot was like a greyhound out of the traps.

Ah well, back to the drawing board - my personal preference would be an automatic gun turret mounted atop the lights. As Jimmy Carr (appropriately) once observed, the gene pool could do with a little chlorine now and again.


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## Baywatch (Mar 30, 2014)

MrSpadge said:


> I had to revisit this thread. I recall thinking that Anders might have had the right idea. Until...
> 
> A few days ago I was behind someone at roadwork lights in town in Paphos. Lo and behold the idiot began to creep. I watched with delight as he inched _past_ the single control light on our bit in anticipation of shaving a tenth of a second off his journey. I'd stayed back, so he could have recovered his position, although I'm sure neither his pride nor his brain cell would allow this course of action.
> 
> ...


Idiots will always be out there, but I am sure that 80% will disappear if they took away the opposite light. Next is to do like in Germany, where they have a camera mounted in the crossing that picture cars that pass the light post if it is read. Then you will get a fine home in the mailbox and three points in your driving license. But it seems that here they can't agree on who and how speeding tickets from cameras should be served to the driver/car owner. Well well....


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## PeteandSylv (Sep 24, 2008)

Baywatch said:


> Idiots will always be out there, but I am sure that 80% will disappear if they took away the opposite light. Next is to do like in Germany, where they have a camera mounted in the crossing that picture cars that pass the light post if it is read. Then you will get a fine home in the mailbox and three points in your driving license. But it seems that here they can't agree on who and how speeding tickets from cameras should be served to the driver/car owner. Well well....


....and thank goodness they can't agree. The last thing I want is Cyprus to become like so many other countries with Big Brother watching every move and fines for every minor offence.

The creeping at traffic lights is far less than it was when we arrived 7 years ago, but in any case it is simply stupid, not actually dangerous, and is usually to the detriment of the creeper.

Has anyone really thought about how over regulated so many EU countries are? Certainly the UK has thousands of speed cameras which, when operating, serve only to raise revenue. Very few of them are sited where they will have an effect on road safety. In any case the idiots, car thieves and daft teenagers take no notice of them. It is just the normal driver making a speed "mistake" that is hammered.

Cyprus needs improvement in driver education not speed cameras which would only serve to add stress to life here which is opposite to what most of us came here to enjoy.

Pete


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## Baywatch (Mar 30, 2014)

PeteandSylv said:


> ....and thank goodness they can't agree. The last thing I want is Cyprus to become like so many other countries with Big Brother watching every move and fines for every minor offence.
> 
> The creeping at traffic lights is far less than it was when we arrived 7 years ago, but in any case it is simply stupid, not actually dangerous, and is usually to the detriment of the creeper.
> 
> ...


Sorry Pete, I can't agree with you.

As with everything else, if you follow the rules, no need to stress

Same thing with parking on double yellow lines. Clamp the cars and it will stop very quickly


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## Veronica (Apr 5, 2008)

The problem is actually getting Cypriots to follow the rules, and after living here for many years many expats start to adopt the local ways. 
Certainly the police need to be more pro-active in matters like parking on corners, on double yellows, double parking to pop into the nearest kiosk etc. 

If more traffic police were employed and they clamped down with fines for these things the fines would pay for the extra staff and take many men off the unemployed list killing two birds with one stone. However as it mainly Cypriots who break these rules and not foreigners it is unlikey to happen.


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## PeteandSylv (Sep 24, 2008)

Baywatch said:


> Sorry Pete, I can't agree with you.
> 
> As with everything else, if you follow the rules, no need to stress
> 
> Same thing with parking on double yellow lines. Clamp the cars and it will stop very quickly


Well it hasn't in the UK or other countries where clamping companies and the police do a very good trade. A substantial proportion of double yellows solely exist to facilitate parking charges.

One thing to remember is that the northern EU countries are those that grew up with "rule books" and they are comfortable with that whereas the southern EU countries did not. Attitudes are therefore different which is why some should never haven't entered the EU which is dominated by rules, some good, some bad, which a vast army of bureaucrats sits solely to make up at enormous expense to the taxpayer.

Road safety has improved a great deal in Cyprus and all this without speed cameras everywhere. The majority of accident fatalities here are young, drunk drivers and many of those are on motorbikes.

I still believe that introducing change and better habits by the carrot of education is far better than using the stick of fines and penalties.

Pete


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## Baywatch (Mar 30, 2014)

PeteandSylv said:


> Well it hasn't in the UK or other countries where clamping companies and the police do a very good trade. A substantial proportion of double yellows solely exist to facilitate parking charges.
> 
> One thing to remember is that the northern EU countries are those that grew up with "rule books" and they are comfortable with that whereas the southern EU countries did not. Attitudes are therefore different which is why some should never haven't entered the EU which is dominated by rules, some good, some bad, which a vast army of bureaucrats sits solely to make up at enormous expense to the taxpayer.
> 
> ...


Tell me one country where better habits are implemented with carrot alone. Especially in a country where the culture to not bother about laws you don't like is widespread. 

It is still my opinion that the quickest way to teach a bettter behavior in this case is to hit where it hurts, and that is the wallet. Like in UK, confiscate the car if it has no paid tax or insurance or valid MOT


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## MrSpadge (Jun 7, 2015)

Veronica said:


> ...and after living here for many years many expats start to adopt the local ways....


Scarily true. I flit between the UK and Cyprus, and last trip back to Blighty caught myself a couple of times failing to signal at junctions. I've only been here 10 months and have started to unconsciously adopt the habit. This is even more disturbing considering I am(was?!) one of those individuals who would go quietly apoplectic when other drivers did this very same thing. Peer group osmosis is an insidious thing.


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## PeteandSylv (Sep 24, 2008)

Baywatch said:


> Tell me one country where better habits are implemented with carrot alone.


There isn't one and I never said or implied that there was. There must always be penalties for breaking laws. But I despise having laws introduced just to create penalties such as the UK did with speed cameras, the multi-million cash cow. On the positive side the UK introduced the option for drivers to choose to attend a training course instead of a fine for certain offences.

If you want a country where the carrot was used as the first measure ahead of the stick I suggest you take a look at Australia and New Zealand where I have just experienced the most polite, sensible, accommodating driving I have ever seen in both cities and countryside. Part of this stems from the awareness of the human cost of anti-social driving as well as the desire to be a friendly society with respect for others.

Pete


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## Baywatch (Mar 30, 2014)

PeteandSylv said:


> There isn't one and I never said or implied that there was. There must always be penalties for breaking laws. But I despise having laws introduced just to create penalties such as the UK did with speed cameras, the multi-million cash cow. On the positive side the UK introduced the option for drivers to choose to attend a training course instead of a fine for certain offences.
> 
> If you want a country where the carrot was used as the first measure ahead of the stick I suggest you take a look at Australia and New Zealand where I have just experienced the most polite, sensible, accommodating driving I have ever seen in both cities and countryside. Part of this stems from the awareness of the human cost of anti-social driving as well as the desire to be a friendly society with respect for others.
> 
> Pete


I don't know about UK, but in Sweden and Germany, the cameras have for sure calmed down the traffic. In Germany especially those mobile ones placed hidden in roadwork areas. 

Cyprus try also the carrot but does it help? For improved parking culture no. For more drivers paying road tax no. Do you not have the financial means to the road tax, insurance, MOT, well, then you should not drive. You play with other people's life. Government prolongs payment terms, you can split the payment. Does it help? It seems no, there are more and more unpaid cars on the roads.


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## PeteandSylv (Sep 24, 2008)

Baywatch said:


> I don't know about UK, but in Sweden and Germany, the cameras have for sure calmed down the traffic. In Germany especially those mobile ones placed hidden in roadwork areas.
> 
> Cyprus try also the carrot but does it help? For improved parking culture no. For more drivers paying road tax no. Do you not have the financial means to the road tax, insurance, MOT, well, then you should not drive. Zou play with other people's life. Government prolongs payment terms, you can split the payment. Does it help? It seems no, there are more and more unpaid cars on the roads.


Well I'm not sure where you're getting these facts about Cyprus. I've seen nothing about improving parking culture other than ex-pats whinging, but you may be right.

It seems, once again, that we see the problems and solutions in different lights so perhaps it's best to leave it at that before I'm accused of bullying.

Pete


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## Baywatch (Mar 30, 2014)

PeteandSylv said:


> Well I'm not sure where you're getting these facts about Cyprus. I've seen nothing about improving parking culture other than ex-pats whinging, but you may be right.
> 
> It seems, once again, that we see the problems and solutions in different lights so perhaps it's best to leave it at that before I'm accused of bullying.
> 
> Pete


OK we do so.

I will put up another question that probably will be discussed


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## Rema (Aug 12, 2012)

Yes, there are plenty of idiots out there! 
When I arrived I was initially amused then angered by the driving and parking habits, of car owners. Having lived here for some three years now my attitude has softened again as I get used to living here and have learnt to accept things as they are.
This is Cyprus not the UK, learn to live with it as I have and don't stress about things being done, or more often not done, as you would expect in a more regulated environment.

The sun is shining so go sit by the pool and have a nice cup of tea! 
Happy retirement to all.


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## mta (Dec 29, 2013)

I see an accident nearly every day on my 20 minute commute. 

But I'm sure if cyprus had 24/7 surveillance, gatsos, traffic light cameras, average speed cameras, bus lane cameras, parking cameras etc then driving standards would improve.


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## PeteandSylv (Sep 24, 2008)

mta said:


> I see an accident nearly every day on my 20 minute commute.
> 
> But I'm sure if cyprus had 24/7 surveillance, gatsos, average speed cameras, bus lane cameras, parking cameras etc then driving standards would improve.


Why? They haven't in the UK.

Pete


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## Cat Lady (Dec 16, 2008)

Saw a classic today just past the Debenhams roundabout (Paphos). A lady came out of the Debenhams exit and turned right going up the down dual carriageway, when she could she then turned across into the up dual carriageway. At least she was not on the phone with children unbelted hanging out of the windows!!


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## Baywatch (Mar 30, 2014)

Cat Lady said:


> Saw a classic today just past the Debenhams roundabout (Paphos). A lady came out of the Debenhams exit and turned right going up the down dual carriageway, when she could she then turned across into the up dual carriageway. At least she was not on the phone with children unbelted hanging out of the windows!!


Hardly Cypriot


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