# Good news for those living in Spain



## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

*Good news for those living in Spain!!*

British families are worse off than some of their fellow Europeans when it comes to the cost of fuel, quality of healthcare, life expectancy, education, retirement age, working hours and holiday entitlement.

*According to The uSwitch.com Quality of Life Index . *

*WARNING - It does also say (in a fuller report, not here)* 
This year’s index does not reveal the full impact of the recession – this can be expected to show next year 

Spain Is The Best Place to Live In Europe! - RTN Costa Blancas Free Newspaper - Round Town News


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## Caz.I (Mar 21, 2009)

Pesky Wesky said:


> *Good news for those living in Spain!!*
> 
> British families are worse off than some of their fellow Europeans when it comes to the cost of fuel, quality of healthcare, life expectancy, education, retirement age, working hours and holiday entitlement.
> 
> ...


Hi Pesky, 
I am just being half-glass-empty pessimistic or is this not just bad news for them, rather than good news for us? Plus, its the last sentence in this post that kind of worries me and seems to outweigh the good in the survey! Not to mention that your post is Numbered 666! 
Caz.


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## Tallulah (Feb 16, 2009)

666 posts?!? What a great opportunity to use this smilie then ... :evil: mwhahahahaaaa! (we know you're really an ... :angel: ).


I had to have a giggle at the "Scourge of the Phantom Diner" article...had my suspicions it could have been Steve Hall, until they provided a description...and of course the lack of getaway vehicle (the camper van!!). 

Anyway...:focus:.....


Spain has long since been a place where wealth is difficult to generate than the UK or other European countries, but in balance, generating wealth in the UK and coming to Spain to spend it or enjoy one's retirement has long since been the favoured choice. It makes sense if you think about it. Imagine, having £300k and going off to live in India. I'm not suggesting Spain is like India, of course, but the cost of simply existing is less than the UK due to the economic models and particularly indirect taxation.

The fact that Spain was not long ago a bit like a South American country with people existing with very little money, has made it a popular target for those living close by - the bad news ... how long before Spain adopts all the economic models in the Northern countries and becomes less attractive to live in? Other than simply climate? Hopefully, for those who have external revenue a long way off! But the change as I'm sure most have noticed, has already started. 

Tallulah.x


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## Hombre (Sep 10, 2009)

It can't be that bad....we're all here !!!


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## Tallulah (Feb 16, 2009)

Hombre said:


> It can't be that bad....we're all here !!!


Exactly Mr H!!

When my OH was a teen, he remembers driving back here on hols to visit his family. He was in a Ford Cortina Mk3, and you'd think he had a Bentley or something. Everyone thought his parents were wealthy!! Most people didn't have a car (had a donkey or a cow though!!) and those that did, had a clapped out Renault 4, 2CV, or if they were really well off...had a Fiat 127 which was seen as the sporty, speedy car around here! Mind you, those were the days of packed earth floors in houses, and the animals were inside - you slept in a room above for warmth! The roads other than the nationals, were more hardcore than tarmac. Poor lad.

As this was in the last 25 years or so, it's frightening when you consider how things have gotten since then. Bearing in mind that apart from all the good stuff (none of the above really anymore), there is also the reality that people then used to get on very nicely with smallholdings and a minimum amount of cash. Nowadays it's very different and I suspect in the next decade or so, cash will become king and smallholdings a thing of the past, as evident now with masses of land here that used to be cultivated and is now simply left and cleared up once a year, with all the inheritors working elsewhere. Oh well, hopefully the current model will remain where if you want to see someone specifically in the ayuntamiento, you have to go on a given day at a given time - unlike the UK where it's any day 9-5 and therefore indirect taxation will remain under the same logic as today - where we pay for what we get and once we realise it, we're quite happy to pay the lesser amount. Question of self adjustment, really.

I know where I'd rather be.

Tally.x


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## Suenneil (Feb 17, 2009)

Hi 

I agree in part with what Caz said - its perhaps bad news for those in the UK rather than good news for us here in Spain - and as always with this type of report its all relative isnt it ? ......... if you are here in Spain and only earning 1200 euros a month, or are out of work as many expats are at the moment .... then it doesnt really matter whats happening elsewhere in the World ... in your own World its rubbish !!!!! 

I do think things are changing rapidly here in terms of taxation, costs etc and I do think this will impact greatly on any future reports in the coming years ... I do of course live in hope that those changes dont prevent me or anyone else from being able to choose to live here ...

Sue x :juggle:


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Caz.I said:


> Hi Pesky,
> I am just being half-glass-empty pessimistic or is this not just bad news for them, rather than good news for us? Plus, its the last sentence in this post that kind of worries me and seems to outweigh the good in the survey! Not to mention that your post is Numbered 666!
> Caz.


Ok, let's get rid of post 666 :evil: :wacko: :mad2: :evil:

Of course, of course Caz. I. It's just that I'd given the gloom and doom message yet again to another hopeful mover and I wanted to brighten things up a bit without being a total liar.So I found this article, but I knew that everyone would come down on me (quite rightly so) like a ton of bricks :brick: if I didn't put the small print about the crisis on.

What a great smilie opportunity this has been! Come on folks, get those smilies out!!


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## Suenneil (Feb 17, 2009)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Ok, let's get rid of post 666 :evil: :wacko: :mad2: :evil:
> 
> Of course, of course Caz. I. It's just that I'd given the gloom and doom message yet again to another hopeful mover and I wanted to brighten things up a bit without being a total liar.So I found this article, but I knew that everyone would come down on me (quite rightly so) like a ton of bricks :brick: if I didn't put the small print about the crisis on.
> 
> What a great smilie opportunity this has been! Come on folks, get those smilies out!!


 Im always up for smiling Pesky!!! I bloody hate all the doom and gloom - it goes against my whole personality and reason for being! 

oops couldnt post this at first cos Id apparently used too many smiley faces! lol


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## Xose (Dec 10, 2008)

I think we can all relax. Spain will never follow the UK example - small town USA. Other than the NHS, and we'll see what happens there.

Hopefully Spain will follow France. Work ethic there is more of a social contract, as opposed to the UK where it is much more a commercial contract. Try getting a French man to work through lunch. Try the hire and fire ethic we have in the UK (I know what the law says about hiring in the next 6 months.... coblers - been there, done that... just change the title and you're sorted. As for the permanent contract theory - for the 1st year (used to be 2) you might as well be on a temporary contract because the rights you have are virtually zero. In France, once someone's permanent, it's a job and half to build up a case and get rid of them. Also, no temp/contract labour if the job is a proper post. Not allowed. The job's there, so hire someone.... it's ze law.

Spain.SA needs the minerals to realise that the direect to indirect employment in it's factory is a joke. The efficiency rating must be somewhere between 50% and 75%. It's effectiveness rating must be somewhere between 40% and 50%. If it was a factory it would have shut down years ago. The EU money is starting to dry up. It needs a new vision and a new GOAL. The goal, as we all know, is to make money - be it making computers or staples. The sooner Spain realises that, and stops taxing those who already earn the square root of ****** all, the sooner it stands a chance of joining the rest of the European contributing nations.

Champions league my arse. ZP needs to get a job - another job I mean.

So, I agree with Talli in that change is obvious and fast, and would add that the model followed will be the French Social employment contract and economic model. People will be first within the reality of commerce success being a must have (as opposed to more and more for the wealthy and more and more funccionarios and sod all for the workers) and we will all be happy as Larry.

Spain currently has a lead on renewable energy. The world (including Gordon yesterday) agree that this is the way to go.... or else. Let's hope they don't p!ss it away on 25 funcionarios to every wind/solar farm.

That's my theory

Xose


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Xose said:


> I think we can all relax. Spain will never follow the UK example - small town USA. Other than the NHS, and we'll see what happens there.
> 
> Hopefully Spain will follow France. Work ethic there is more of a social contract, as opposed to the UK where it is much more a commercial contract. Try getting a French man to work through lunch. Try the hire and fire ethic we have in the UK (I know what the law says about hiring in the next 6 months.... coblers - been there, done that... just change the title and you're sorted. As for the permanent contract theory - for the 1st year (used to be 2) you might as well be on a temporary contract because the rights you have are virtually zero. In France, once someone's permanent, it's a job and half to build up a case and get rid of them. Also, no temp/contract labour if the job is a proper post. Not allowed. The job's there, so hire someone.... it's ze law.
> 
> ...


Very few smilies there xose - satisfactory, but could do better with a little more effort... 

I don't like discussing politics on the forum, but as far as ZP is concerned all I will say is just look at the alternative. :scared:

Renewable energy is IMO the way to go and Spain could make this their trademark as much as the Swiss are renowned for cheese and chocolate. But there are some kind of restrictions at the moment on solar power farms. No more money to be invested in them at the moment or smth like that :confused2:


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

The trouble (from the little I know) with solar energy is that its not that good!!!! A friend of mine installed it into her house for 11.000+€ and its only works for half the day and so she had to then install a generator to back it up, which isnt efficient at all! She reckons it'll be 30 odd years before its paid for itself! She and her son are limited on the ammount of time they can use electricity, TV, PC, hairdryer, showers etc. cos they save it for essentials like cooking and lighting! Its certainly not the way forward from her perspective!

They need to do some serious work on this to get it up and running and efficient! Cos in Spain, its a brilliant idea - if it works properly!

Jo xxx


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## Xose (Dec 10, 2008)

jojo said:


> The trouble (from the little I know) with solar energy is that its not that good!!!! A friend of mine installed it into her house for 11.000+€ and its only works for half the day and so she had to then install a generator to back it up, which isnt efficient at all! She reckons it'll be 30 odd years before its paid for itself! She and her son are limited on the ammount of time they can use electricity, TV, PC, hairdryer, showers etc. cos they save it for essentials like cooking and lighting! Its certainly not the way forward from her perspective!
> 
> They need to do some serious work on this to get it up and running and efficient! Cos in Spain, its a brilliant idea - if it works properly!
> 
> Jo xxx


That's right Jo. A solar panel on the roof will not supply a house with 5Kw of continuous energy.

However, hectare uppon hectare of Solar Panel farms generating gigawats into the national gird is BIG business. And the power companies are paying at rates of 3, 4 and even 5 times what we pay for a Kw. Hence the famous arguments about the balance of energy costs they're always on about regardless of the zillions profits they make.

Spain has the square mileage to do this - and then some. Also, panel technology is changing at a hell of a pace. Those who have the infrustructure in place first will win the day. Taht's why I hope Spain stops building bloody flats and tower blocks and starts R&D in its future.

Xose 
P.S. Same goes for the wind farms and hydroelectric.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

*solar power*



Xose said:


> That's right Jo. A solar panel on the roof will not supply a house with 5Kw of continuous energy.
> 
> However, hectare uppon hectare of Solar Panel farms generating gigawats into the national gird is BIG business. And the power companies are paying at rates of 3, 4 and even 5 times what we pay for a Kw. Hence the famous arguments about the balance of energy costs they're always on about regardless of the zillions profits they make.
> 
> ...


 
I agree, it's solar power farms where the investing needs to take place at the moment. On an individual basis it's not really viable yet. But there are problems. Here's an article in Spanish sorry, don't have time to translate anything at the moment, am supposed to be working...
Frenazo a la energía solar española | Ciencia | elmundo.es


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## Xose (Dec 10, 2008)

Pesky Wesky said:


> I agree, it's solar power farms where the investing needs to take place at the moment. On an individual basis it's not really viable yet. But there are problems. Here's an article in Spanish sorry, don't have time to translate anything at the moment, am supposed to be working...
> Frenazo a la energía solar española | Ciencia | elmundo.es


Yes the politics are a bit screwed up and I agree on the options to ZP. 

We have one of Rajoy's boys running the Xunta here at the moment. And so far it ain't very funny.

Yes there is some political issue with solar energy at the moment. But believe me, I have some contacts in the field, it isn't stopping those that hopefully will be the big players in the future getting their infrastructure in place. I know of several large fields in Southern Spain that were once worth not a lot and are today worth millions just because the politicians locally agreed for it to be a solar plant...one day.:juggle: It's in its infancy, so far as large plant layouts are concerned and as at now property speculation based on the possibility of it BEING big enough, etc etc is in itself big business. These guys I know do not kid themselves that they will ever take on the likes of Iberdrola Renovables, but they are preparing what will in my opinion be a huge piece of cheese for them.

Don't worry on the doc - I'm Spanish so not a prob for me!

Have some more smilies by the way...:spit::ranger:

Xose.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Xose said:


> Yes the politics are a bit screwed up and I agree on the options to ZP.
> 
> We have one of Rajoy's boys running the Xunta here at the moment. And so far it ain't very funny.
> 
> ...


 
Xose, much better on the smilie front!!

Here is a rough translation of a few things mentioned in the report in my previous post for those of you whose Spanish isn't up to it...
There are 100 projects (solar farms??) which need to be registered before they can operate. 34 of those are being built.
The Ministery of Industry hasn’t passed the decree which would serve as the legal framework in which these plants would be operating after they have been registered. 
Right now the sector is booming , but the delay in the bureaurocracy will put the brakes on any further develpments in 2010.
Spain is the only country in the EU which has the land and conditions necessary for the development of large scale thermo electric solar power plants. Each plant of 50 MW would generate some 10.000 jobs during its construction.
And that last point on its own makes me feel that the govenment is losing a golden opportunity with the crisis to retrain and invest in these markets rather than have a few bods doing some building work for the town halls for a year.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Tallulah said:


> 666 posts?!? What a great opportunity to use this smilie then ... :evil: mwhahahahaaaa! (we know you're really an ... :angel: ).
> 
> 
> I had to have a giggle at the "Scourge of the Phantom Diner" article...had my suspicions it could have been Steve Hall, until they provided a description...and of course the lack of getaway vehicle (the camper van!!).
> ...


I agree with everything you have written. I remember coming bhere many years ago when I was a student. Torrevieja was a charming little village then! In those days, Spain was a bit like Turkey was in the late '70s.
In the early 80s we used to spend the summers in pre-trendy clubber Ibiza. We lived in a finca outside Santa Eulalia, then an unspoilt village. I saw a photo of Santa Eulalia recently - didn't recognise the place.
Things began to change after Spain joined the EU. The pace of change has been quite rapid. 
I fear you are right about the inevitable social changes that will accompany growing prosperity.
Strange, really: both wealth and poverty create their own unique problems....


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