# My First Dealings with Estate Agents in Spain



## StevejR1 (May 21, 2013)

Well we've been thinking of a move to Spain for months now, but recently we went over to Andalucia to thoroughly research areas to try and narrow down our choices, and to do four viewings on properties to get a feel for the market, and to try and get a better idea what we want from a Spanish property, and what sort of style, and location, we prefer.

We met three Estate Agents, and ended up viewing eight properties.

The first agent was Spanish, nice enough, didn't ignore the 'crisis' in his viewing patter, and seemed approachable and realistic....the property was lovely, but overpriced (in my opinion!) and unfortunately not in the best of locations (we had asked to view, so our choice).

The second agent was British, has lived in Spain for many years, and was knowledgable, and informative. She took the time to answer our questions, and go for a drink to discuss what we were looking for, and gave us some very sensible advice. We warmed to her, and would happily deal with her further.
Her properties were nice. First one was nice, but not suitable. The second one lovely, but needing total restoration, and was very overpriced (based on asking price+restoration costs=way above market value). Again these were our choices to view.

The third agency was seeing five properties but with two agents. We saw two very interesting properties with one of them, one we quite liked, one we didn't, but in an area we knew little about. The agent was friendly, and helpful, but less polished.

The 5th property we saw was with the same agency, but with a different agent (the boss). We thought the house was ok, but hated the location. The agent was very 'slick!'!

My impression was quite good considering all I'd heard of these lying, cut throat dealers preying on green sun-seekers with more money than sense! 

The Spanish guy I'd happily deal with again, the second one I've got faith in to forge a good understanding with, the third I think seems a good base to start negotiations with.

It's the fourth, the boss, I'm doubting......

I sent two emails out this week, I was honest and open in both. I put my cards on the table, and stated that some of the properties were based on values in owners heads, not based on what buyers like myself were prepared to risk on spending on properties in Spain in the present climate. I sent that to agent 2, and agent 4.

The reply from agent 2 was as honest as mine, she understood what I was saying, and said I was in the position to negotiate, and right to be cautious, and to keep my eyes open rather than be blinded by the dream etc. ....in my eyes an honest response.

Agent number 4's was a little different....he suggested that the prices have fallen to as low as they're going to fall, and that the nice properties are being snapped up, and house sales are the highest since 2008, so if we bought now we wouldn't sell at a loss if we decided to sell later.....

.....how daft does he think we are??? Those comments are so wide of the mark that I feel a little insulted!

I was only reading yesterday that the house values have dropped a further 10% over the last quarter, and that follows a continuing trend. Also, the two properties are very nice properties...both have been on the market for 18 months..no 'snapping up' there! It would be interesting to know what price band the high sales are in, and how much below the asking price the sales were?

I honestly believe that the Spanish housing market is kidding itself of the value of property. I think it's fuelled by owners unwilling to accept that their equity has vanished, and are clinging onto past values. And agents desperate for a sale at a high commission.

I think a calculation of €1000 per m2 is also only accurate if it is relevant to the market...I'm afraid it isn't anymore!

As a potential buyer, I think it is ridiculous the amount of money some owners/agents are expecting for some properties, and how much buyers like me are being asked to risk in the Spanish market at the moment. And it is a risk!...it's not about how much I can AFFORD to spend, it's about how much I'm prepared to RISK in the purchase of a Spanish property at the moment. The prices at the moment aren't encouraging buyers like me to take that risk.

I think some owners/agents should take a peak at properties in France....they are less than half the money for twice as much. And it's time owners realised that the current climate means buyers are having to be more savvy and cautious with their money, and aren't just blinded by 'the dream' and the sun!

Don't get me wrong, I do feel for the owners, but unfortunately that is the situation they are in. If I buy a property I would accept I'm now in the same boat. But I'm not going to be so stupid to fall for inflated prices just to minimise somebody else's troubles and then drastically increasing my own!....and I'm a bit annoyed that an agent thinks I'm so 'green' that I'll believe any old twaddle!


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## Calas felices (Nov 29, 2007)

You might find it advantageous to find out what the owner of the property thinks it is being advertised for.


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## StevejR1 (May 21, 2013)

Calas felices said:


> You might find it advantageous to find out what the owner of the property thinks it is being advertised for.


Wouldn't they know??? If I had a house for sale with an agent I'd agree a fee, then I'd have a look on their website at my property...just to see how it presented....but if I saw it was on at anything other than the agreed price I'd be cracking heads!! 

So surely the owner would know?


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## maxd (Mar 22, 2009)

I like this monster 

5 bedroom villa for sale in La Paloma, Manilva (Malaga) - Spain, Spain

Shame it needs another 200k to finish it off.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

I can only speak for what we experienced and that was a few years ago (2006-2007).

We met with both Spanish and British estate agents. None tried to push us (but the selling stakes were not quite as difficult then) however there was a wide variation in the expectations and reality. It was often difficult to tell whether the price being quoted by the agent accurately reflected the market value (or the owner's expectations) or was overinflated to allow room for negotiation while still giving the agent a decent take and for the owner to be content. 

After seeing a number of houses in various states of (dis)repair and being sold both by Spanish and by Brits we came to the conclusion that Brit houses being sold by Brit agents were the more overpriced to the point of being unrealistic - they often had cheap DiY makeovers, electrics wired to Brit standards (illegal in Spain) even using Brit 13A plugs and socket and bayonet fittings on lights (Selling point - don't need to change plugs or bulbs), shiny slippery tiles on stairs (no need to polish), etc.

The most ruinous houses we saw were via Spanish agents selling on behalf of Spanish, but to be fair, the prices invariably reflected the state of decrepitude although they did also have houses that were 'sort-of OK'. A few Spanish-owned houses were being sold by Brit agents and, again, they were often overpriced. With many of the houses, we never saw the owners and a lot were unoccupied. 

When the owner was there, he/she would often contribute to your seeing the house and frequently supplied interesting titbits of information (not available through the agent) so that you got to know more about the house - "My great-grandfather had the house built in 1905 and, then, this was in the centre of the village, not like it is now. "I was born in that bedroom. "In 1962, the house was pulled down and rebuilt using block and beam. "This is my favourite room and I sit here when I do my sewing and have a lovely view of the mountains. " That photo? "They were my husbands parents, mine are in that photo over there" etc.

When a house is clearly Spanish owned but unoccupied, frequently the previous owner will have died and the heirs are selling it to get their hands on the inheritance. You may see no problems with this, BUT check that ALL the new owners/heirs are in agreement about selling and about the price because you can waste a lot of time and money trying to make the purchase only to find, in the end, that one recalcitrant owner does not agree and everything falls apart.

We bought our house and it is useful knowing that it was rebuilt in 1962 with a more sturdy construction! The asking price in 2007 was €87k and we paid 85. We paid what we considered was the right price and by being friendly with the owner, we got latitude in making our payments (we needed to sell our flat in UK) and she and her family have been firm friends ever since. They have a huerta with their new house and we frequently get surplus produce from them including 50kg potatoes last weekend.


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## StevejR1 (May 21, 2013)

maxd said:


> I like this monster
> 
> 5 bedroom villa for sale in La Paloma, Manilva (Malaga) - Spain, Spain
> 
> Shame it needs another 200k to finish it off.


That is a good example of what I'm talking about!.....a big villa certainly, but worth €500,000?!??! No way!..and it's not even finished!! So like you say, pay another €200k getting it finished, and you've got yourself a €700,000 property!.....er, no, I don't think so!!

By the time it's finished you might be able to ask €600,000 for it, but more likely to get far far less to actually sell it!! That to me tells me the asking price is far too high to even contemplating buying it, then finishing it, to even stand a chance of breaking even!! What planet are they on???

But if you really were interested, and you offered €250,000 do you think they'd take it??

My other point is about the risk in the Spanish housing market.....do you really think me, or anyone, would happily invest €700k of my hard earned money into a house in Spain at the moment?...no matter how lovely the house is, the answer is no!...unless you've got more money than sense!

Do people not realise what I could buy in the UK for the equivalent of €700k?....it would be a very very impressive house, in a good area, well presented, and more to the point, with a fraction of the risk involved to my money invested, and my life in general, than buying in Spain!

It really is starting to annoy me that I'd love to buy in Spain, I've got the money waiting, I'm a serious buyer...but I'd practically have to insult some of these people with my offers because they are so far removed from reality!!


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## StevejR1 (May 21, 2013)

baldilocks said:


> I can only speak for what we experienced and that was a few years ago (2006-2007).
> 
> We met with both Spanish and British estate agents. None tried to push us (but the selling stakes were not quite as difficult then) however there was a wide variation in the expectations and reality. It was often difficult to tell whether the price being quoted by the agent accurately reflected the market value (or the owner's expectations) or was overinflated to allow room for negotiation while still giving the agent a decent take and for the owner to be content.
> 
> ...


That is very interesting, and very similar to my impressions so far. I've not seen any 3-pin plugs...but I'm going to look more closely now! 

I would like to do what you suggest..offer a fair price, haggle a bit, then buy with both parties happy. As it stands in most cases now it'd be, see house, make an offer 40-50% below the asking price, insult the owner, annoy the agent, lose any potential goodwill in the deal, and proceed if accepted under tension!......not how I like to do business!

Trouble is we're not talking €87k now...we're still talking silly money!..despite the current climate.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Steve.R said:


> Wouldn't they know??? If I had a house for sale with an agent I'd agree a fee, then I'd have a look on their website at my property...just to see how it presented....but if I saw it was on at anything other than the agreed price I'd be cracking heads!!
> 
> So surely the owner would know?


Not necessarily. Often the owner can't even read (very true of many over 65-70 years of age) and will perhaps ask for, say 150k. The agent will say I can get you more than that, maybe 200k, leave it with me. I'll do all the talking so don't say anything. He puts on the market for 250k and maybe sells for 225k. The buyer thinks he has got 25k (10%) off. The seller gets 175k (25k more than he wanted so he's happy. The buyer is told , that for tax purposes the paperwork will only show 160k so give the agent a brown envelope containing 65k which by the time it gets to the seller is down to 15k (not hard to guess where the other 50k went). 
Net result: 

Seller happy got 25k more than he expected of which 15k is black money.
Agent happy made an nice 50k plus his commission
Buyer bought a house and got 25k off it so he's happy, UNTIL he goes to sell it for say 280k (55k profit) and gets hit with a tax bill on 120k profit (difference between paperwork price and new selling price)


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## StevejR1 (May 21, 2013)

I think I've heard mention of that before....I obviously wouldn't get involved with anything like that.

Most of the villas/houses we looked at were British owners...so I'm sure they wouldn't be as gullible as that...would they??


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## A1sauce (Jul 20, 2013)

maxd said:


> I like this monster
> 
> Shame it needs another 200k to finish it off.


Interesting...what would you say is the replacement costs in it's current condition? I live in Southern Calif and want to move to Spain to get out of the rat race. around here for the equivalent of $500K Euro, you get a generic home on a small lot in a bland suburban area, but there is financing available. So I guess it is all relevant in terms of price.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

A1sauce said:


> Interesting...what would you say is the replacement costs in it's current condition? I live in Southern Calif and want to move to Spain to get out of the rat race. around here for the equivalent of $500K Euro, you get a generic home on a small lot in a bland suburban area, but there is financing available. So I guess it is all relevant in terms of price.


:welcome:

were you thinking of taking advantage of the new (proposed) 'investors visa'?

or do you have another kind of visa already in the pipeline?


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## tarot650 (Sep 30, 2007)

Steve.R said:


> I think I've heard mention of that before....I obviously wouldn't get involved with anything like that.
> 
> Most of the villas/houses we looked at were British owners...so I'm sure they wouldn't be as gullible as that...would they??


Steve,it's all down to how desperate they are to sell and some people really are that desperate to get out.I agree 1oo% with baldilocks and what he said.Sadly it's nothing new the old back pocket money was going on when we came to live here nearly 19years ago.There are some good estate agents around but sadly over the years they have been tarred with the same brush as the bad ones.I remember my first experience with an estat agent as if it was only yesterday.Danish guy called Ralph.We saw a property advertised and arranged to meet the agentHe was a right pushy hurdy gurdy.Anyway he showed us the property which we both liked and then the crap came out that we would have to leave him a deposit as there were a lot of other people interested.Oh I forgot to say at the time he did not have the keys for the back door which we didn't think anything of but to cut a long story short we went back that night to look on our and get a feel for the area and went round to the back of the property and then realised why he didn't want us to see the back.Lo and behold three doors away there was a big notice,se vende direct from the owner.Quick telephone call and it saved us three and a half million pesetas.Roughly 14thousand pounds.If I was buying today,which we are not,I would still go the same way and buy direct from the owner.One thing in your favour is that you have forums like this and the internet.Something that we never had.Regards.SB. Stay away from the old back pocket money as you might think that you are saving something but the way Spain is now that saving might just come back to haunt you and I don't mean that disrespectfully.


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## maxd (Mar 22, 2009)

Short list. For the 500k guy, see if you can knock off 100k off asking on these.


5 bedroom villa for sale in Benitachell, Alicante, Spain, Spain

9 bedroom villa for sale in Andalusia, Almería, Turre, Spain


5 bedroom house for sale in Andalusia, Jaén, Alcalá la Real, Spain

4 bedroom villa for sale in Benissa Coastal, Alicante, Spain, Spain

6 bedroom villa for sale in Salobreña, Granada, 18680, Andalucia, Spain, Spain


5 bedroom villa for sale in Andalusia, Málaga, Estepona, Spain

4 bedroom villa for sale in La Duquesa, Manilva (Malaga) - Spain, Spain

4 bedroom villa for sale in Valencia, Alicante, Moraira, Spain

4 bedroom detached villa for sale in Andalusia, Málaga, Marbella, Spain

5 bedroom villa for sale in Andalusia, Málaga, Casares, Spain

5 bedroom villa for sale in Almuñecar, Granada, 18690, Andalucia, Spain, Spain

4 bedroom villa for sale in Almuñecar, Granada, 18690, Andalucia, Spain, Spain

6 bedroom villa for sale in Benissa Coastal, Alicante, Spain, Spain


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

I only live a couple of miles (as the crow flies) from the Alcalá la Real one. I'd be interested to know whether all the building permits were obtained for that conversion and where are all the international banks in Alcalá la Real? or are they counting Santander as an international bank, because I wouldn't. The manager at that branch is an incompetent and his bungling had the Banco de España block our opening an account for three months.


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## A1sauce (Jul 20, 2013)

xabiachica said:


> :welcome:
> 
> were you thinking of taking advantage of the new (proposed) 'investors visa'?
> 
> or do you have another kind of visa already in the pipeline?



Interested in the investment visa, but seems like there might be taxation issues as a resident status, expecially if we don't move in for a period of time...double taxation possibilities? maybe coming in October to look around. Really seem to like the area from Moraira-Valencia


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## A1sauce (Jul 20, 2013)

maxd said:


> Short list. For the 500k guy, see if you can knock off 100k off asking on these.
> 
> 
> Thanks for posting all these...a few of them look really good. You get a lot more for your money in Spain than here, that's for sure.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

A1sauce said:


> Interested in the investment visa, but seems like there might be taxation issues as a resident status, expecially if we don't move in for a period of time...double taxation possibilities? maybe coming in October to look around. Really seem to like the area from Moraira-Valencia


it would be possible to remain non-tax resident as long as you weren't here more than 183 days in a calendar year - but that wouldn't really be living here

I don't know if there are any agreements between the US & Spain, but this might help - I haven't read it so I don't know for sure http://www.freshfields.com/uploadedFiles/SiteWide/Knowledge/New DTC between US and Spain.pdf



from reading the discussion document/proposed law which talks about the 'investors visa' , it seems that any property would have to be purchased without finance, so a cash buy, & residency would only initially be granted for a year

sounds like you'll be in my area when you come over


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## donz (May 5, 2010)

if you want to buy property here you can always look at the bank repo's - they just want them off their books!!

Also, remember this is a nation of hagglers - we got a total of €185k off the initial asking price of our property when we bought it in 2010!


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## StevejR1 (May 21, 2013)

donz said:


> if you want to buy property here you can always look at the bank repo's - they just want them off their books!!
> 
> Also, remember this is a nation of hagglers - we got a total of €185k off the initial asking price of our property when we bought it in 2010!


If you don't mind me asking...what was the initial asking price?

I feel in the 'exclusive villa' market the prices are totally unrealistic. I even found what I'd call a 'luxury villa' on an agency last night that was only a handful of €k's more than one of the villas we looked at, yet it was 50% bigger!


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## donz (May 5, 2010)

€475k. This is not an exclusive villa however but a sizeable campo property with a business behind it too.


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## StevejR1 (May 21, 2013)

donz said:


> €475k. This is not an exclusive villa however but a sizeable campo property with a business behind it too.


Did you pay €475 then, or offered €295k on a €475 property?

I'm very interested to find out....cos although €475 is way above what we're looking at its not so far away. And that's not far along the lines that we feel is more realistic...the property is €400k...but we feel €260-280k is a far more realistic price!

But that almost seems ridiculous/insulting to offer that....but then I guess to try and expect me to pay such an inflated price is also a bit of an insult to my intelligence!


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## Lolito (Aug 25, 2012)

Just rent for a year or so, chances are that the properties you are now viewing, would still be there next year, much cheaper.... don't listen to Estate Agents... things are not getting better at all, if any, they are getting worse. 

Our house was (in Euros) 300k in 2008, then 215k in 2010, and today is 150k .... and keeps falling. The realistic price for this property before the market boom, lets say 1997, would have been around 120k at the most.


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## tarot650 (Sep 30, 2007)

maxd said:


> Short list. For the 500k guy, see if you can knock off 100k off asking on these.
> 
> 
> 5 bedroom villa for sale in Benitachell, Alicante, Spain, Spain
> ...


Don't think anybody can deny there are some really tasty villa's here but knock off the 10% agents fees and they look even more tasty.If agents were more flexible on their fees it might just improve the market but not a lot.


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## StevejR1 (May 21, 2013)

soulboy said:


> Don't think anybody can deny there are some really tasty villa's here but knock off the 10% agents fees and they look even more tasty.If agents were more flexible on their fees it might just improve the market but not a lot.


I'm not so sure it's the 10% agents fees that are making the properties look unappealing, it's the unrealistic asking prices.

To be honest, it's easy to look on the Internet and be impressed by the properties.....but when it comes to actually being in the position to buy you realise these are very inflated prices, and it's a lot of your money to waste!!!


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## StevejR1 (May 21, 2013)

Lolito said:


> Just rent for a year or so, chances are that the properties you are now viewing, would still be there next year, much cheaper.... don't listen to Estate Agents... things are not getting better at all, if any, they are getting worse.
> 
> Our house was (in Euros) 300k in 2008, then 215k in 2010, and today is 150k .... and keeps falling. The realistic price for this property before the market boom, lets say 1997, would have been around 120k at the most.


That is an interesting statistic. So basically your property is back to the value of about 2000?

The thing with market values is that you have to accept that they fluctuate...in 2008 your house was worth every penny of €300k because that's what they were *selling * for......today it is worth €150, maybe less, because that is what it will *sell* for (..or whatever it may be).

I'm not saying you are, but there are owners/agents still wanting to achieve, or be very close, to the €300k value they once were.....so they ask for €275k....then I have to 'insult' them with an offer of €145k....it makes it look like I'm being ruthless, when in fact I'm just being realistic.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Lolito said:


> Just rent for a year or so, chances are that the properties you are now viewing, would still be there next year, much cheaper.... don't listen to Estate Agents... things are not getting better at all, if any, they are getting worse.
> 
> Our house was (in Euros) 300k in 2008, then 215k in 2010, and today is 150k .... and keeps falling. The realistic price for this property before the market boom, lets say 1997, would have been around 120k at the most.


I think that is a fair comparison. Take the pre-boom price and add about 20 - 25%, assuming that one can identify the pre-boom price.


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## tarot650 (Sep 30, 2007)

Steve.R said:


> I'm not so sure it's the 10% agents fees that are making the properties look unappealing, it's the unrealistic asking prices.
> 
> To be honest, it's easy to look on the Internet and be impressed by the properties.....but when it comes to actually being in the position to buy you realise these are very inflated prices, and it's a lot of your money to waste!!!


500K property,10%.50K fees.Not a bad little earner and I am willing to bet you will find the odd agent charging 15%.Like somebody else said,come over,rent for 6months and you never know you might just find that perfect property you are looking for plus the exchange rate doesn't do a lot of people favours.


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## StevejR1 (May 21, 2013)

baldilocks said:


> I think that is a fair comparison. Take the pre-boom price and add about 20 - 25%, assuming that one can identify the pre-boom price.


Is there any way of finding out previous market sales in Spain?

There is a website in the UK (..my partner uses it,I'd have to find out what it's called) which will give you all that information, even the last sale price, and when, of a particular address....just wondered if you could do that with spanish property?


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## tarot650 (Sep 30, 2007)

Lolito said:


> Just rent for a year or so, chances are that the properties you are now viewing, would still be there next year, much cheaper.... don't listen to Estate Agents... things are not getting better at all, if any, they are getting worse.
> 
> Our house was (in Euros) 300k in 2008, then 215k in 2010, and today is 150k .... and keeps falling. The realistic price for this property before the market boom, lets say 1997, would have been around 120k at the most.


When we came a nice T shaped family villa on nice plot with pool,garage,give or take 20million pesetas roughly 80,000 british pounds.One of the reasons we first came to live in Spain was the cost of living.It was just so cheap it was unreal.I would say that we first saw a rise in prices around 1999 and then when the euro came in people had that much mattress money to get rid of there was a real hike in prices.I know you won't believe me but it's perfectly true people were turning up at the notary's office with suitcases full of money.One thing is for sure even at the cost of living here today I honestly can't think of a nicer place to live.I suppose it's because we have an enjoyable lifestyle and have been accepted into a Spanish community.


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

Lolito said:


> Just rent for a year or so, chances are that the properties you are now viewing, would still be there next year, much cheaper.... don't listen to Estate Agents... things are not getting better at all, if any, they are getting worse.
> 
> Our house was (in Euros) 300k in 2008, then 215k in 2010, and today is 150k .... and keeps falling. The realistic price for this property before the market boom, lets say 1997, would have been around 120k at the most.



Just out of interest, how do you know what a property is worth? 

Agents won't give you a price unless you are on an urbanization and you can compare with others.

I'm just curious as to how people can say that a property is 'over priced' or 'offer 20% less than they are asking". In the next breath, the advice is to ask a realistic price when selling. But why do that when the same person was advising earlier to offer 20% less????



The whole industry is a mess and one should only pay what one thinks it is worth to them - irrespective of how much it's on sale for!


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## doro (Aug 1, 2010)

snikpoh said:


> Just out of interest, how do you know what a property is worth?
> 
> Agents won't give you a price unless you are on an urbanization and you can compare with others.
> 
> ...



Agree and not.

Sellers bet to catch peoples who don't know anything about construction or market in general, and just go for eye candy.

That 700k villa, build from scratch can cost less that 150k in materials cost. Put up the workers money, and you still cant reach 300k to build it.

Agents works with 1000-2000 euro/mp2 build? Really?


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## StevejR1 (May 21, 2013)

snikpoh said:


> Just out of interest, how do you know what a property is worth?
> 
> Agents won't give you a price unless you are on an urbanization and you can compare with others.
> 
> ...



I agree, and this is my view too.

Property value is only based on what similar properties have actually *sold* for recently. It's not based on an estimate of what it used to be worth.

If a property, no matter how lovely, has been on the market for 18 months and not sold, then it's obviously overpriced. If it was reduced to a level when it became such good value that it would be worth the risk of buying at the price, it would sell.

And that is what it's all about I think...the risk element! How much are people prepared to risk in a declining market, with an uncertain economic climate. That's the position I'm in. I really don't see how agents expect people to *risk* the amount of money they are asking in the Spanish market.

If you were offered a nice small townhouse for €50-75k...not too much risk. Small villa for €100k..you'd think about it. Nice villa for €150..that's good value. Exclusive villa/lovely restored finca for €200k...it's worth the risk..........blow €3-400k on a villa when I could get more for my money in the *UK*!!!! Ridiculous!!!!

Personally, and being totally honest, I'm only prepared to *risk* €2-250k of my money in a property in Spain at the moment, now that I've don my research. I'd go to €300k but it'd have to be a dream villa (which to be honest would be too big for me anyway).

If the owners/agents think I'm living in cloud cuckoo land?....then I'll have to wait, and see if they drop to my valuation...or walk away cos they were right......but I think I know whose more likely living in cloud cuckoo land!


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

doro said:


> Agree and not.
> 
> Sellers bet to catch peoples who don't know anything about construction or market in general, and just go for eye candy.
> 
> ...



Not that I'm selling but I'd be VERY happy to take 1000-2000 euro/mp2 on my villa. It's 550m2 which mean it is valued at between 550,000 euros and 1.1 million - I wish!

It also means that the bakery I have (500m2 of living space), which is for sale, is valued at anywhere between 500k and 1 million - it's on the market for 100k!!!


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## StevejR1 (May 21, 2013)

doro said:


> Agents works with 1000-2000 euro/mp2 build? Really?


I have been quoted two or three times that values are based on €1000 per m2 of the building...then variants depending on land.

I think it should more realistically be based on €500


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## StevejR1 (May 21, 2013)

snikpoh said:


> Not that I'm selling but I'd be VERY happy to take 1000-2000 euro/mp2 on my villa. It's 550m2 which mean it is valued at between 550,000 euros and 1.1 million - I wish!
> 
> It also means that the bakery I have (500m2 of living space), which is for sale, is valued at anywhere between 500k and 1 million - it's on the market for 100k!!!


Exactly what I'm saying! It's ridiculous!!


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Steve.R said:


> I have been quoted two or three times that values are based on €1000 per m2 of the building...then variants depending on land.
> 
> I think it should more realistically be based on €500


Don't you look at something like this?
Precio medio por provincia | elmundo.es
Or are these values not correct either?

Or this
http://images.fotocasa.es/inmesp/noticias/sala_prensa/informes/15177/2013_1er_trimestre.pdf


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## StevejR1 (May 21, 2013)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Don't you look at something like this?
> Precio medio por provincia | elmundo.es
> Or are these values not correct either?
> 
> ...


So a house in the area that I am looking at is worth €1,500 per m2?

Are those houses priced at that, or at the lower rate of €1000 per m2, sold???

....I seem to think not!

I learnt a long time ago that you can make figures say exactly what you want them to say....governments are very good at it 

Like a poster has said..it's about how much you're prepared to risk personally...I've stated what I'd risk, if the market doesn't coincide with my views, then I walk away and it's another buyer lost by the Spanish market because they're not encouraging investors to invest in properties.


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## Madliz (Feb 4, 2011)

Steve, I think the UK site you're referring to is Zoopla, where you can check 'sold' prices.

"A house was worth €x in year y" - would that be an official valuation, estate agent speak, owner's wishful thinking or the price it sold at? Huge differences for each category! 

House prices this month, according the Ministerio de Fomento published this week, house prices in June were equivalent to those of 2003, that is, ten years ago. This represents a drop of 29.5% from the peak of 2008, at an average price per m2 of €1456.20. This, of course is the average for all property for the whole of the country.

As far as politicians' salaries go, are they having a hard time recruiting so have to push the salaries up? Hardly!


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## StevejR1 (May 21, 2013)

Madliz said:


> Steve, I think the UK site you're referring to is Zoopla, where you can check 'sold' prices.
> 
> "A house was worth €x in year y" - would that be an official valuation, estate agent speak, owner's wishful thinking or the price it sold at? Huge differences for each category!
> 
> ...


Zoopla, I think that's the one.

€1,500 per m2 as an average may be right....I'm sure certain areas like Barcelona and Madrid, and even some of the islands might bump up the figures.

But I stand by the facts, rather than figures...a house standing unsold means that it's overpriced to attract a buyer.

I do accept that if you don't want to sell at the current market values you don't have to, but then I don't see the point of having a house up for sale for two years either?


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## Madliz (Feb 4, 2011)

If you find a house you like, make an offer. What's the worst that can happen? If they decline you're no worse off, it might open negotiations or if you're very fortunate (and they're very desperate) they may even accept! Whatever happens, you don't lose anything, so give it a go (and let us know, naturally!).


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## StevejR1 (May 21, 2013)

Madliz said:


> If you find a house you like, make an offer. What's the worst that can happen? If they decline you're no worse off, it might open negotiations or if you're very fortunate (and they're very desperate) they may even accept! Whatever happens, you don't lose anything, so give it a go (and let us know, naturally!).


This is our plan....it's just not the way I like to conduct myself...I'd rather make a fair bid, at a fair price, rather than practically insult someone. I have got sympathy for the owners, and their situation, it's not a great place to be....but of course once I buy that'll be me too!...so I have tobe rational


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## maxd (Mar 22, 2009)

Steve R, I cannot help that you are being a little bit too greedy. Have you ever built a house? It really takes a ton of time and money.

A developer will build a house @ 1000 euro per m2 and he will probably want 20% margin for his trouble. Then there is the land acquisition costs.

All those Villas I listed are not really bad value, especially if you could knock 20-25% off.

If you want something for nothing you might be waiting a long time. For me if I was buying I would be happy at going in at cost level, over the long term if you are planning to hold it you will not lose out.

Yeah, OK thing tend to overshoot in a crisis. I was looking in Florida in 2010/11 and I kept on telling myself things were going to fall further, now things have pinged back and it is almost overheating again.

Find a few you like, look at the m2, location, level of finishing and then make a judgement based on that.

Things might go down another 10%, but in the long term you will be good to go.


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## StevejR1 (May 21, 2013)

maxd said:


> Steve R, I cannot help that you are being a little bit too greedy. Have you ever built a house? It really takes a ton of time and money.
> 
> A developer will build a house @ 1000 euro per m2 and he will probably want 20% margin for his trouble. Then there is the land acquisition costs.
> 
> ...


I wouldn't like to think that I was being greedy...mearly realistic.

I have seen 8 properties so far, that's litterally scratching the surface....but when I've seen two very similar properties, in the same village, virtually the same size, same sort of style, and one of them is €1000k dearer, it doesn't take an economic specialist to tell that something is amiss....or a run down property for €450k, needing €100k to renovate, and would be worth, even in the best scenario, €450k afterwards if you were lucky....I could go one...

I stand by what I've said....if a villa is up for €400k, but I don't think it is worth it (based on what I could buy in the UK as only one comparison alone) then I make a bid that I feel is fair, if they refuse then I walk away.
If they are correct, then that house will sell. If I'm correct that house will remain unsold until it drops to my offered value. It's a risk on missing out on a property we may want, but if I'm wrong, I'm wrong...but if I'm right I've just saved €100-150k and helped secure my future.

I'm not trying to 'screw' anyone...I'm trying to be fair, I'm just in a strong position, and am not going to be so naive that I offer a deal that I feel is in their favour far more than in mine.

If that is greed I guess I may have a different interpretation of what greed is. I think it's just using common sense.


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## Lolito (Aug 25, 2012)

Some people, still don't know that there is a 'crisis' in Spain. Refusing to sell for less. Two years ago we went to view a house, 1600m2 garden/orange groves etc. Beautiful 3 bed villa. Next to beach for 165K (euros), we wanted to rent it to start with, to get a feel, but the owner wasn't interested in renting it. 

The price for that house was fair, but I thought we would offer 150k for it and they didn't accept and made sure we understood that they wouldn't accept anything below 165k... 

Two years later, the house is still up for sale, owner not interested in renting it. Owner not interested in selling it and still on the market for 165k euros... not a penny less. 

House is empty and has been empty for years... just a pity. 

The owner said he paid well over 200k for it a few years ago and spent lots doing things to it, so he won't sell it for anything less that 165k... 

Oh well.... fair enough. 

(THe owner is English by the way).


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Lolito said:


> Some people, still don't know that there is a 'crisis' in Spain. Refusing to sell for less. Two years ago we went to view a house, 1600m2 garden/orange groves etc. Beautiful 3 bed villa. Next to beach for 165K (euros), we wanted to rent it to start with, to get a feel, but the owner wasn't interested in renting it.
> 
> The price for that house was fair, but I thought we would offer 150k for it and they didn't accept and made sure we understood that they wouldn't accept anything below 165k...
> 
> ...


That's his choice! However, from your description and without seeing it, 165k does sound a fair price. It may be that he borrowed money to buy it and needs to clear that loan. Who knows? and if the owner isn't telling you any more than he already has...


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## Jaxx (Apr 21, 2010)

*Estate agents*

I can very highly recommend "Spanish property choice"in Mojacar. A company with English owners,Steve and Sharon.They are reliable,will give you great advice and only sell properties which are fully legal and have all the paper work required. They are on the Internet and have a spread each week in the Euro weekly news.i cannot recommend them highly enough.


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## StevejR1 (May 21, 2013)

baldilocks said:


> That's his choice! However, from your description and without seeing it, 165k does sound a fair price. It may be that he borrowed money to buy it and needs to clear that loan. Who knows? and if the owner isn't telling you any more than he already has...


That is his choice, and I can sympathise with the owner, but it's a ridiculous situation!

Why bother having a home on the market for two years+ when there's no chance of selling it because it's overpriced (assuming it is). Unless he's being forced to sell because of a debt on the property?...but then I'd have thought the lender would be forcing his hand to actually get it sold?!?

But to have a property on the market under those circumstances seems pointless to me. The logic is beyond me....is he waiting for the market to raise to his valuation?...or someone silly enough to come over and pay over the market rate?

Unfortunately there seems to be a lot of owners like this....and it makes buying property very hard in Spain....because the values are based on owners stubborn beliefs rather than market value....so their property is in fact unsellable...and so the market is saturated with properties that aren't actually trying to be sold, they're just stagnating the market in my opinion.


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## Frogfish (Nov 16, 2013)

Steve.R said:


> That is his choice, and I can sympathise with the owner, but it's a ridiculous situation!
> 
> Why bother having a home on the market for two years+ when there's no chance of selling it because it's overpriced (assuming it is). Unless he's being forced to sell because of a debt on the property?...but then I'd have thought the lender would be forcing his hand to actually get it sold?!?
> 
> ...


Slightly old topic, and I am not even resident in Spain but in Shanghai, China (though I do work in the real estate market here), but the situation was the same here a couple of years ago (prices on the increase now) and even more so when I worked in RE in Hong Kong prior to their property crash in the late 2000's (and current market prices have now obliterated even those pre-crash prices).

Some buyers simply have no need to sell and won't sell below what they feel is reasonable based on the price they paid and their input into the property. They quite rightly feel that holding onto the property will eventually cover all of their perceived losses (and assumed alternative investment gains were they to cash out) and is a better investment that realising the capital in that property and re-investing it via an IFA (don't get me started on them) 

If you take a good look at historical data anywhere then you will see that these type of owners are not wrong, property will always recover and they will achieve their targets .._ if they can afford to wait._ It may take 10 or 15 years but they will not be out of pocket in the long run _if they have the funds to sustain both the property and themselves _in the meantime.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Frogfish said:


> Slightly old topic, and I am not even resident in Spain but in Shanghai, China (though I do work in the real estate market here), but the situation was the same here a couple of years ago (prices on the increase now) and even more so when I worked in RE in Hong Kong prior to their property crash in the late 2000's (and current market prices have now obliterated even those pre-crash prices).
> 
> Some buyers simply have no need to sell and won't sell below what they feel is reasonable based on the price they paid and their input into the property. They quite rightly feel that holding onto the property will eventually cover all of their perceived losses (and assumed alternative investment gains were they to cash out) and is a better investment that realising the capital in that property and re-investing it via an IFA (don't get me started on them)
> 
> If you take a good look at historical data anywhere then you will see that these type of owners are not wrong, property will always recover and they will achieve their targets .._ if they can afford to wait._ It may take 10 or 15 years but they will not be out of pocket in the long run _if they have the funds to sustain both the property and themselves _in the meantime.


There is also the other complication that if they have a loan that has to be paid off from the sale proceeds, it rather restricts how low they can go and even more so if they then have to buy somewhere else to live.


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## extranjero (Nov 16, 2012)

we're selling our house, we've reduced it 3 times. Anyone buying it will get a lovely
villa, furnished, extras, heating,mature well cared for garden with expensive stone tables etc., pool, rejas, all the hard work done.
Yes, we are insulted if someone wants to knock a great chunk off! You cannot blame someone who has spent thousands getting it to a good standard not wanting to give it away to some greedy, yes, greedy so and so who makes an insulting offer because the owner may be desperate. We bought this villa which was on a muddy patch of ground, had to bury our own pipes, had bare wires from the ceiling , a shell really, although it did have a kitchen. There was nothing there, yet someone will come along expect everything to be included, and then try and knock the owner down by 40,000 euros!
If owners refused to accept these very low offers, and agents stated that no offers below a certain level would be accepted, then others would stand a chance of selling at a reasonable price.
As for agents charging 10% plus commission for selling, people must be mad to use them - ours charges 4% +iva and that's too high. When I sold in UK the agent's fee was 1%-that was standard. I don't agree agents have more to do when selling a property in Spain-that's their justification for high fees.
Considering we are told to allow 10% of the selling price for expenses, agent, solicitor, plus valia etc, the amount left to the vendor is considerably reduced, therefore therefore this"inflated" selling price is not so inflated after all.
Would be buyers-what do you want-blood?


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

extranjero said:


> we're selling our house, we've reduced it 3 times. Anyone buying it will get a lovely
> villa, furnished, extras, heating,mature well cared for garden with expensive stone tables etc., pool, rejas, all the hard work done.
> Yes, we are insulted if someone wants to knock a great chunk off! You cannot blame someone who has spent thousands getting it to a good standard not wanting to give it away to some greedy, yes, greedy so and so who makes an insulting offer because the owner may be desperate. We bought this villa which was on a muddy patch of ground, had to bury our own pipes, had bare wires from the ceiling , a shell really, although it did have a kitchen. There was nothing there, yet someone will come along expect everything to be included, and then try and knock the owner down by 40,000 euros!
> If owners refused to accept these very low offers, and agents stated that no offers below a certain level would be accepted, then others would stand a chance of selling at a reasonable price.
> ...


 It is horribly unfair isnt it. Sadly, properties are an investment and with investments there are risks. In spain furing the "golden years" agents were charging as much as 25% WTF!!! So this paltry 4% is nothing by comparison. They may have to try to sell harder to a shrinking market, but thats tough. and of course, they have to make money somehow??!?

In the end tho, you have to be guided by the market and blood, sweat, tears and a beautiful villa arent enough as things are today

Jo xxx


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

extranjero said:


> we're selling our house, we've reduced it 3 times. Anyone buying it will get a lovely
> villa, furnished, extras, heating,mature well cared for garden with expensive stone tables etc., pool, rejas, all the hard work done.
> Yes, we are insulted if someone wants to knock a great chunk off! You cannot blame someone who has spent thousands getting it to a good standard not wanting to give it away to some greedy, yes, greedy so and so who makes an insulting offer because the owner may be desperate. We bought this villa which was on a muddy patch of ground, had to bury our own pipes, had bare wires from the ceiling , a shell really, although it did have a kitchen. There was nothing there, yet someone will come along expect everything to be included, and then try and knock the owner down by 40,000 euros!
> If owners refused to accept these very low offers, and agents stated that no offers below a certain level would be accepted, then others would stand a chance of selling at a reasonable price.
> ...



No...they want to pay the current market price.

I understand everything you say. Your house has been your home, you've put a lot of love and work into it.
But it's a commodity, like a kilo of bananas, a pair of shoes, a used car. It has no intrinsic value, it has only a market price..


If I were buying from you I'd want to knock down your asking price as low as I could.
When we sold our UK properties we took the first reasonable offer...we could 
Have hung on and asked formore but as we didn't intend to buy property ever again we were happy to have thebcash.

Not long after the crisis kicked in..our properties could be on the market to this day..

It's-not about being greedy, it's about being realistic.


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## extranjero (Nov 16, 2012)

fortunately, properties have recently been sold for not far off the asking price-hope mine will be next!
mrypg9
I sent a pm, hope you received it


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## gus-lopez (Jan 4, 2010)

2 years on the market , in the Spanish view of things is a mere moment! 
I can take you to look at at least 6 properties that we looked at over 11 years ago & which have never sold & are still for sale. One , which I quite liked but the wife didn't was priced at £90k. Last time I looked he'd divided it into 4 seperate sales & it totalled over 500k € !!! I do like a laugh. :lol:
Around here when we first looked no Spaniard would even entertain offers. the price was fixed & written in stone. A Spanish girl I used in Exeter for translations told me her Gran had one that had been for sale for 5 years & was gradually falling down, " but the price never will" she laughingly said. 
Around here prices of the older houses have always maintained a reasonable price & more so if there is land in excess of 5000m2 with them. Then, they average around 500k € . The house is just looked upon as a bonus as it is the land that everyone is willing to buy , even now. 
As an aside I have an article on housebuilding form around 2005/6 detailing the costs of constructing a 5 bedroom , 4 bathroom, 3 storey house complete with salon & kitchen & large front & rear terraces & a 3 car garage, for 79k euros for all materials , labour, Architects plans, Architectural technicians supervision & all licences fees. constructed in Toledo & no land cost . The licences, Architect & technician cut came to nearly 15K.
The formula here appears the same as the UK; 3 x thirds. One third land cost, 1 third building cost & 1 third profit.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

extranjero said:


> fortunately, properties have recently been sold for not far off the asking price-hope mine will be next!
> mrypg9
> I sent a pm, hope you received it


Yes, I got it, thanks

I'll keep fingers crossed for you. It is distressing enough to leave a property you've lived in for years without seeing it go like some knocked-down bargain basement item...but sadly, that's life.

I hate moving as it is. I loved our two-hundred and fifty year old cottage back in the UK, modernised, I hasten to add. My ex-husband once said that I had spiritually never left the house I was born in which I admit is probably true. 
I lived in one place for over thirty-two years but since leaving the UK we've moved five times...and with all our furniture, goods and chattels. At least we've stayed in this house for five years and have just signed up to another three.

There are 1008 inhabitants in our village. By the end of the next three years I reckon I'll have exchanged friendly chat with all of them who are capable of speech..


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## Madliz (Feb 4, 2011)

I feel for you, extranjero. I am also trying to sell and have reduced the price in line with Spanish averages, around 30% from the peak, but refuse to give it away. Luckily, I'm not desperate, although I really *want* to live somewhere else, closer to family and familia (yes, English and Spanish ones!) and with a milder climate (snow today!). 

I think those of us in this situation, with properties to sell, have the most rotten luck at the moment. It's just the luck of the draw that I am in this situation, not through greed or speculation. I understand that human nature means we all want something for nothing, indeed, if I get a sale I will be looking to get a good deal myself, when I go house-hunting. Personally, I think the prospect of derisory offers is keeping the prices artificially high, as there's a limit to how much people can drop to get a sale and knowing that buyers will expect further falls on top of the 'reduced selling price' is just too much. Those who are desperate, alas, often have no other options.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

In the end tho, its all about supply and demand. Due to the state of the Spanish economy, few folk can afford to buy property and therefore prices are falling simply to try to appeal to a wider market. Also things were stupid a few years ago and prices went artificially high - that was destined not to last really.

I gues the answer is to wait. I'm sure with the way things are in Europe, theres a lot of migrating going on right now and Spain is a beautiful country with the appeal of sun, heat etc (well not today its been snowing lol). So hopefully, it will start calling people back and then the economy will move in the right direction????????

Jo xxx


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## zenkarma (Feb 15, 2013)

jojo said:


> So hopefully, it will start calling people back and then the economy will move in the right direction????????


It's not going to happen anytime soon though in my opinion. In many ways what has happened is a reset back to where property values should be before they were artificially inflated by easy credit and a greed/corruption fueled building boom. Those stuck holding properties worth less than they paid for them simply paid too much for them in the first place unfortunately.

The forward economic situation for the Spanish housing market just doesn't look good for the short or long term. Massive over-supply, little to no demand, stringent bank borrowing requirements, high debt ratios and the worst of all—high unemployment, particularly amongst the young equals a significant lack of demand for the foreseeable future. It's hard to see where the catalyst is going to come from to get the market moving again.

What's happening now is, cash buyers are picking off the prime properties in good areas for bargain prices and leaving the rest and those over-priced alone.

The prospect many sellers currently face, particularly if they're not prepared to lower their prices or be more flexible in considering offers is prices reducing even further in the future and still not being able to sell.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

zenkarma said:


> It's not going to happen anytime soon though in my opinion. In many ways what has happened is a reset back to where property values should be before they were artificially inflated by easy credit and a greed/corruption fueled building boom. Those stuck holding properties worth less than they paid for them simply paid too much for them in the first place unfortunately.
> 
> The forward economic situation for the Spanish housing market just doesn't look good for the short or long term. Massive over-supply, little to no demand, stringent bank borrowing requirements, high debt ratios and the worst of all—high unemployment, particularly amongst the young equals a significant lack of demand for the foreseeable future. It's hard to see where the catalyst is going to come from to get the market moving again.
> 
> ...


Yes, you're probably right, altho its common knowledge that alot of wealthy Russians are moving to Spain, there are also northern Europeans..... So maybe they will bring with them wealth and "spread it around"????

But, yes it could take some time

Jo xxx


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## NickZ (Jun 26, 2009)

Frogfish said:


> If you take a good look at historical data anywhere then you will see that these type of owners are not wrong, property will always recover and they will achieve their targets .._ if they can afford to wait._ It may take 10 or 15 years but they will not be out of pocket in the long run _if they have the funds to sustain both the property and themselves _in the meantime.



That's not true. IIRC home prices in Detroit for example are below 1980s levels.

It's one thing to say Hong Kong which is a fairly limited area without a huge oversupply of properties will recover. It's a totaly different thing to talk about a relatively huge area with many surplus homes. Many of those empty homes will go mouldy (or worse) before being sold.

The real problem with this thread is the assumption "Spain" is one simple market. I'm sure there are homes in upscale parts of Madrid and Barcelona that have suffered very little or might even be up in price.

OTOH you'll see the banks selling new build (never lived in homes) for prices less then the cost of the materials. 

Neither is wrong. Ten years from now the cheap places will still be cheap. The expensive places will be even more expensive.

The other strange thing about this thread is thinking in terms of averages. Some people spend more for a kitchen or even a bathroom then I'd like to spend for a whole house. 

There is no point thinking about average selling prices unless you're looking at a block of buildings. All fairly similar.

Location can make a fairly large difference in price even if the homes are similar.

Finally remember you're in the minority for most of the Spanish market. They aren't priced to attract the non Spanish market. If your GF wants to live within walking distance of her mother I promise you'll end up paying more for the location


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Anywhere, no matter where it is or what it is, is only worth what somebody is prepared to pay for it!


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## NickZ (Jun 26, 2009)

But what people will pay varies by where it is.

50metre apartment in the right posh section of Madrid will sell for more then a villa in the wrong area of Spain.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

NickZ said:


> But what people will pay varies by where it is.
> 
> 50metre apartment in the right posh section of Madrid will sell for more then a villa in the wrong area of Spain.


To a point, but everyones rights and wrongs are different, with different needs, reasons, likes..... It also depends on how many buyers are around looking in the different areas, with there different criteria. Thats the main problem on the costas right now. Most places there, both new builds and existing were built predominantly for expats, who stopped coming

Jo xxx


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## Frogfish (Nov 16, 2013)

NickZ said:


> That's not true. IIRC home prices in Detroit for example are below 1980s levels.
> 
> It's one thing to say Hong Kong which is a fairly limited area without a huge oversupply of properties will recover. It's a totaly different thing to talk about a relatively huge area with many surplus homes. Many of those empty homes will go mouldy (or worse) before being sold.


Well that is true but then Detroit is a very special case .. not many cities go bankrupt ! If however you want to pick something over in Europe (UK) or even in the USA (say Florida which suffered badly) then take a look at prices before any peak, at the bottom of the trough and 10-15 yrs on ....... HK is not so different since, as per the point you make below, land prices will keep rising, salaries will (eventually !) keep rising, the cost of living never dips for long before rising .. and so on. So it's impossible for property prices to buck the trend for long.



NickZ said:


> The real problem with this thread is the assumption "Spain" is one simple market. I'm sure there are homes in upscale parts of Madrid and Barcelona that have suffered very little or might even be up in price.


This is the case in most countries, the top end of the market is fairly resilient and attracts investment from overseas. London being an almost perfect case in point (but it's similar for top quality property in any major city).


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## Expatliving (Oct 21, 2013)

Interesting thread, I've yet to experience the dreaded Real Estate splurge, but I'm ready for heaps of BS from both experienced and inexperienced agents around spring of 2014.

Without insulting some of the people currently resident/or home owners in Spain, but if you've bought property there in the decade leading up to around 2010? Well, your investment (if it was an investment?) was a bit of a disaster ...darling! 

I'm a builder by trade, when (and if) I go into the Spanish real estate arena, I will ask both the vendor and the estate agent the same questions. 

Obviously, many Brits want to get home, especially if they are renting out their costa homes, as investment in the South East of England & especially London, is making a mockery of 'investing' in Spain. I can't comment for elsewhere in the UK, but the fact is why would people invest in a skint, corrupt country ... When they can do that in the UK? ;-) 

Spanish property prices have been vastly overpriced for years, only lifestyle change and non-financial reasons would have seen you wanting to buy in Spain over the last decade.

Brits in the UK will talk down the Spanish market ... Because it's massively inflated. 

Ps/ Loved the post from Steve about £700k, that wouldn't even buy you a house in several inner London boroughs.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Expatliving said:


> Without insulting some of the people currently resident/or home owners in Spain, but if you've bought property there in the decade leading up to around 2010? Well, your investment (if it was an investment?) was a bit of a disaster ...darling!
> 
> I'm a builder by trade, when (and if) I go into the Spanish real estate arena, I will ask both the vendor and the estate agent the same questions.
> 
> Obviously, many Brits want to get home, especially if they are renting out their costa homes, as investment in the South East of England & especially London, is making a mockery of 'investing' in Spain. I can't comment for elsewhere in the UK, but the fact is why would people invest in a skint, corrupt country ... When they can do that in the UK? ;-)


Not everyone buys property simply as an investment, they are buying homes in places they want to be. Its really not all about money and what you can make - lifes about living and being where you want to be. HOME!

Jo xxx


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## Expatliving (Oct 21, 2013)

jojo said:


> Not everyone buys property simply as an investment, they are buying homes in places they want to be. Its really not all about money and what you can make - lifes about living and being where you want to be. HOME!
> 
> Jo xxx


Precisely Jojo, that is why I will be heading South even though my London home has gone up in value by at least 10% in the last year. I try to be straight and to the point, the Spanish market (currently) is in the doldrums ... This will change. However, I still think there is readjustment to take place in Spain before calm descends back on the Costas. 

With regard to the UK? The key date is May 2015 ... General election. Up till then there will be a host of sweeteners for the voters, but not too much, as the feel good factor can make people consider change ... So I would expect the Tories to continue dangling the carrot in front of the donkey. 

By that time I want to be settled in Spain, when I will joining the rest of you who have realised there is more to life than cash and would never dare dream of living in Spain, but keeping your toes in the UK door for health and emergency reasons 

Great profile photo BTW.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Expatliving said:


> Precisely Jojo, that is why I will be heading South even though my London home has gone up in value by at least 10% in the last year. I try to be straight and to the point, the Spanish market (currently) is in the doldrums ... This will change. However, I still think there is readjustment to take place in Spain before calm descends back on the Costas.
> 
> With regard to the UK? The key date is May 2015 ... General election. Up till then there will be a host of sweeteners for the voters, but not too much, as the feel good factor can make people consider change ... So I would expect the Tories to continue dangling the carrot in front of the donkey.
> 
> ...


 Hhhmmm, if you want to talk politics, why dont you start a thread in La Tasca - Expat Forum For People Moving Overseas And Living Abroad ?????? Its for off-topic chats. The rest, well if you live in Spain you dont keep your toe in the UK door, you really should accept what Spain gives you or you shouldnt move there! 

Jo xxx


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## Expatliving (Oct 21, 2013)

I think you need to take on board that UK politics will effect the demand for house purchases in Spain by Brits (back to the original thread question). The benefits of an actual move to the country can only be judged if you really believe it will improve your quality of life? The fear for many 'would-be' expats is that life in Southern Europe isn't getting any better soon? It's kicking off again in Gib' by the way. That sort of nonsense also has a negative effect on house prices and non-expats perception of living in and around Spain.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Expatliving said:


> I think you need to take on board that UK politics will effect the demand for house purchases in Spain by Brits (back to the original thread question). The benefits of an actual move to the country can only be judged if you really believe it will improve your quality of life? The fear for many 'would-be' expats is that life in Southern Europe isn't getting any better soon? It's kicking off again in Gib' by the way. That sort of nonsense also has a negative effect on house prices and non-expats perception of living in and around Spain.



Only by Brits, but there are so many other nationalities moving to Spain, Brits seem to have taken a "back seat" for now. 

Its all about the world wide recession, employment and the overbuilding of properties at the end of the boom years, which Spain didnt see coming. I'm sure order will rise from the chaos and it will sort itself somehow, but the UK government really isnt a key factor in any of it IMO. But like I say, have a discussion about that in La Tasca - put your point across and see what some of the others think??

Jo xxx


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

jojo said:


> Only by Brits, but there are so many other nationalities moving to Spain, Brits seem to have taken a "back seat" for now.
> 
> Its all about the world wide recession, employment and the overbuilding of properties at the end of the boom years, which Spain didnt see coming. I'm sure order will rise from the chaos and it will sort itself somehow, but *the UK government really isnt a key factor in any of it IMO.* But like I say, have a discussion about that in La Tasca - put your point across and see what some of the others think??
> 
> Jo xxx


IYO! What about the stopping of S1 s from 1st April 2014 - that certainly puts a bit of a dent in the plans of those who are not OAPs.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

baldilocks said:


> IYO! What about the stopping of S1 s from 1st April 2014 - that certainly puts a bit of a dent in the plans of those who are not OAPs.


Well that is gonna slow the Brits down in the future - that's for sure!!

Jo xx


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## Madliz (Feb 4, 2011)

Two interesting headlines today from idealista.com:


la venta de viviendas cae un 6,8% en el tercer trimestre, según fomento 

la actividad de la construcción en españa creció un 6,1% en septiembre, la segunda mayor subida de la ue


So property sales fell 6·8% in the third quarter and construction grew 6·1% in September, the second highest rise in the EU.

Only in Spain!


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## NickZ (Jun 26, 2009)

You're talking percentages of two different markets.

If new construction was 1 and it went up to 2 the increase would be a massive 100%. Nobody is going to be excited by the one extra unit. Also what sort of building? That line doesn't mention it so it likely includes everything from single family to multi to commerical to industrial. 

The one that is worrying is the drop in sales. When sales are already weak and they fall -(


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## maxd (Mar 22, 2009)

Since this thread started I bought a place.

Tenerife house prices and trends - Tenerife province

6 bed villa cost me 260k. I have no idea where they are getting those prices above. The point is if a house is in a decent area and is priced correctly it will sell. A lot of people are still asking 500k for a place that should be selling at 300.

My tip is if you want a monster villa cheap search a) your target area b) put in 5 bedroom plus c) sort by price cheapest to most expensive and see which pictures grab you. Make 4 or 5 viewings and pick the one you like best.

There are motivated sellers as well as deluded sellers, it is your job to find the deals and ignore the fantasists.


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## GUAPACHICA (Jun 30, 2012)

jojo said:


> Hhhmmm, if you want to talk politics, why dont you start a thread in La Tasca - Expat Forum For People Moving Overseas And Living Abroad ?????? Its for off-topic chats. The rest, well if you live in Spain you dont keep your toe in the UK door, you really should accept what Spain gives you or you shouldnt move there!
> 
> Jo xxx


Hi - Who says...? 

GC.


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