# For all those who still think New Zealands housing market isn't that bad.



## mikesurf

http://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/home-property/68073553/What-Auckland-prices-can-get-you-in-France


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## inhamilton

Lol ... put those French mansions in the middle of Paris and see how much they would cost. The majority of the price for houses comes in the land, not the house itself. That last house in Te Atatu must have a huge subdividable section out of view or something, because anyone living here knows you can buy much better than that for $1.4 mil. Besides, Auckland housing market doesn't equal New Zealand. Not saying the Auckland housing market isn't crazy, because it is, but the median price of a house in NZ (NZ$450,000 Dec 2014) countrywide is still cheaper than the median house price in the UK (NZ$500,000 May 2013), for example, and probably France too.


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## escapedtonz

mikesurf said:


> What Auckland prices can get you in France | Stuff.co.nz


Great article.
Such a pity there's no work in France....well for me at least and then there's the language barrier. Difficult enough speaking English 
My in-laws lived in the Dordogne for 12 or so years and chateau's like those were all around and very affordable. Remember there being a few mahoosive ones within a Km of their property in La Gacherie - like 12 bedrooms, built of stone in acres of land for the same value as our house in the UK. We were so so tempted to up sticks to France, but in the cold reality of it all, I would have had to travel miles for work and get past the language barrier. I don't think we'd have stuck it there for long.


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## mikesurf

escapedtonz said:


> Great article.
> Such a pity there's no work in France....well for me at least and then there's the language barrier. Difficult enough speaking English
> My in-laws lived in the Dordogne for 12 or so years and chateau's like those were all around and very affordable. Remember there being a few mahoosive ones within a Km of their property in La Gacherie - like 12 bedrooms, built of stone in acres of land for the same value as our house in the UK. We were so so tempted to up sticks to France, but in the cold reality of it all, I would have had to travel miles for work and get past the language barrier. I don't think we'd have stuck it there for long.



Yes that's a very good point, the work situation is not great over here. As to the language barrier, yes it can be difficult. We moved here from New Zealand a few years ago and we had to revise and top up what French we already new. We do holiday rentals so no need to speak like a native, although we are always learning. The house that we bought here in France we could never have afforded in New Zealand, not even in the South Island. Also you've got to remember that earning potential in France is much higher than New Zealand, so the fact that a house costs $750,000 is no big deal if you can earn the money to pay for it, in New Zealand you can't.


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## inhamilton

mikesurf said:


> so the fact that a house costs $750,000 is no big deal if you can earn the money to pay for it, in New Zealand you can't.


There are plenty of people in NZ who can afford to buy houses at those prices. The price is dictated by the market. If no one could afford those prices then no one would be paying them. You've also got to remember that the NZ economy has improved markedly (fastest growing in OECD last year) since you left 5 or so years ago, so there's a lot more money about.


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## mikesurf

inhamilton said:


> There are plenty of people in NZ who can afford to buy houses at those prices.


Of course there are people who can afford it and also plenty who can't but that doesn't mean that what you are getting is value for money. It's the wealthy Chinese who are finding these properties affordable compared to Chinese prices and so keep pushing the market up. The vast majority of these prospectors don't need to worry about working to pay for their mortgage. Unfortunately this leads to kiwi's struggling to keep up with it. 

To me it just seems that if you are migrating from the UK you are travelling half way around the world to end up back in a country very similar to the UK with extortionate prices. It's always very exciting migrating to a new country but once the excitement wears off the reality sets in.


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## inhamilton

mikesurf said:


> It's the wealthy Chinese who are finding these properties affordable compared to Chinese prices and so keep pushing the market up.


I disagree. The prices in Auckland are going up (remembering that in some parts of NZ, prices are currently going down), because of supply and demand issues. Auckland has seen a huge increase in the number of people living there in recent times, and everything I've read suggests there are problems with the release of new land for housing development etc. So there is high demand, and not enough supply = increasing prices. As well, interest rates are at historic lows. Some of the people buying houses are obviously of Chinese origin, as well as Brits, South Africans, Indians, Filipinos and whathaveyou, but these people are Kiwi's too, as they have chosen to live here or were born here, so I don't get why a distinction needs to be made. And the majority are not 'prospectors'. Most are just families buying homes and living in them. Although there are also prospectors, who will probably end up getting burnt eventually.

Having said that, it is harder for people to buy a house in Auckland, compared to what it used to be. I notice in my circles there are people moving down here to the Waikato more than before. Why not, when you can buy a house for half to 2/3rds the price? Except there obviously isn't the same number of comparable jobs.



mikesurf said:


> To me it just seems that if you are migrating from the UK you are travelling half way around the world to end up back in a country very similar to the UK with extortionate prices. It's always very exciting migrating to a new country but once the excitement wears off the reality sets in.


For you maybe, but I know several UK expats who don't see it that way at all. Everyone's different I guess. 

I don't believe the prices are extortionate across the board. Going back to the article in question, I'm pretty confident I could show you a shoebox sized apartment in Paris or London and then a mansion sized house in the Hawkes Bay overlooking the sea for the same price.


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## mikesurf

inhamilton said:


> I don't believe the prices are extortionate across the board. Going back to the article in question, I'm pretty confident I could show you a shoebox sized apartment in Paris or London and then a mansion sized house in the Hawkes Bay overlooking the sea for the same price.


London, Paris and Auckland. I don't think Auckland fits into that category somehow.
How can you compare a large town with sprawling corrugated tin roofed suburbs with two of the major cities on the planet:confused2:

Like I said before it is earning potential which counts.

Auckland has become a bit of a laughing stock to people looking from the outside.


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## fourseasons

Mikesurf, I agree with you. It really makes me laugh when I see Auckland compared to the likes of London and Paris! 

The prices in Auckland are being pushed up by the Chinese, no doubt about it. They have the money and I guess if you live in a smog filled city in China, Auckland is like a dream. Oh and lets not forget all those Kiwis who are more than happy to take their money. 

Auckland is overpriced, I'm not sure when the correction will occur, if it does at all. If immigration continues as it is I'm not convinced there will be a correction. Auckland is seen as 'cheap' by many wishing to invest.


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## inhamilton

fourseasons said:


> The prices in Auckland are being pushed up by the Chinese, no doubt about it. They have the money and I guess if you live in a smog filled city in China, Auckland is like a dream. Oh and lets not forget all those Kiwis who are more than happy to take their money.


I disagree. I think there are probably as many Brits buying houses in Auckland as Chinese. It's just that the Brits are harder to recognise among the general population. Then there has been this stuff up by the council in the release of new land (which has been prominent in the news this week), and also a surge in the number of NZers returning from Australia in recent times, leading to a large increase in immigration. It certainly isn't the Chinese fault. It's just a growing population, whatever country they come from.


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## mikesurf

inhamilton said:


> I disagree. I think there are probably as many Brits buying houses in Auckland as Chinese. It's just that the Brits are harder to recognise among the general population. Then there has been this stuff up by the council in the release of new land (which has been prominent in the news this week), and also a surge in the number of NZers returning from Australia in recent times, leading to a large increase in immigration. It certainly isn't the Chinese fault. It's just a growing population, whatever country they come from.


I think you will find that China and India were the highest contributers to New Zealand migration last year. The fact of the matter is, wherever migrants are coming from, they are keeping kiwis off the housing ladder. How long would it take for the average wage earning Aucklander to pay off their $1 miilion mortgage?


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## inhamilton

mikesurf said:


> I think you will find that China and India were the highest contributers to New Zealand migration last year. The fact of the matter is, wherever migrants are coming from, they are keeping kiwis off the housing ladder. How long would it take for the average wage earning Aucklander to pay off their $1 miilion mortgage?


There are more than twice as many British born people living in NZ than Chinese. And these Brits and Chinese are just as much Kiwi as I am, in my book. I don't think anyone is denying that the Auckland house prices are very high and unaffordable to a lot of people.


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## mikesurf

Then why does it matter who the migrants are? It's the fact that kiwis born and bred are struggling to match wealthy overseas investors. This spells big trouble for New Zealands future.


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## inhamilton

mikesurf said:


> Then why does it matter who the migrants are? It's the fact that kiwis born and bred are struggling to match wealthy overseas investors. This spells big trouble for New Zealands future.


Investors? There are some, but stats show that most house buyers live here. I take an opposite view. I think immigrants contribute to the country and lead to a better future. Is your 'investing' in France spelling trouble for France's future?


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## mikesurf

inhamilton said:


> Investors? There are some, but stats show that most house buyers live here. I take an opposite view. I think immigrants contribute to the country and lead to a better future. Is your 'investing' in France spelling trouble for France's future?


No, but it could be if thousands like me came over and snapped up all the properties and trippled the housing market values.


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