# non resident taxes and fees?



## NickZ (Jun 26, 2009)

Okay let's assume eventually the world returns to normal :fingerscrossed:

Does anybody have a rough estimate on non resident taxes and fees in the Almeria province? Small one or two bedroom apartment. 

How does it work? Property value or something else? I'm not worried about utilities. 

I see that the legit rental holiday rentals have numbers. How hard would it be to get a permit to rent out for just one or two summer months?

Thanks


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

NickZ said:


> Okay let's assume eventually the world returns to normal :fingerscrossed:
> 
> Does anybody have a rough estimate on non resident taxes and fees in the Almeria province? Small one or two bedroom apartment.
> 
> ...


There are many variables.

Assuming that you are talking about the tax liability that only owning a property would bring, you need to think about:

1) If you don't rent it, just leave it empty, the tax paid is calculated on the catastral value, it isn't very much but see point 3 below.
2) If you rent it out, you are taxed on the actual income generated (this starts getting more expensive).
3) The rate you pay depends if you are tax resident in an EU country or not, last time I looked it was 19% for EU tax residents and 24% for non-EU but it changes every year (expect it to go up in the Covid Financial Crisis). NOTE. It is not your nationality, it is your tax residence that counts.
4) There are no tax free amounts of deductible expenses.

So, the worst case is:

Renting out a property in Spain whilst living in a non-EU country.

This is what happened to me while I lived in Thailand and I paid 24% of the rent in tax.


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

I've just looked it up.

It is still 19% EU and 24% non-EU.

For non-rented properties, the calculation of tax is on either 2% of the catastral value if it has not been updated in the last 10 years, and 1.1% if it has.


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

The catastral value often doesn't correspond closely to the sale price of a property - it can be a lot lower, but sometimes the catastral value can be higher than the sale price (happens when the most recent catastral revision in the area was at a time when property prices were high). We will see a lot of that after the corona virus crisis when property prices drop but the catastral values lag behind.

So it isn't really possible to calculate the non-resident property tax (imputed rental income) by using the sale price.

Also be aware that if you buy a property for below the "official" value that gives rise to the complementary transfer tax, whereby people pay the transfer tax due on the amount they actually paid for the property but receive an additional demand at a later date for extra transfer tax on the difference between what they paid and the official value of the property.

https://blog.abacoadvisers.com/myth-busting-spanish-complementary-tax/


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## NickZ (Jun 26, 2009)

Lynn R said:


> Also be aware that if you buy a property for below the "official" value that gives rise to the complementary transfer tax, whereby people pay the transfer tax due on the amount they actually paid for the property but receive an additional demand at a later date for extra transfer tax on the difference between what they paid and the official value of the property.
> 
> https://blog.abacoadvisers.com/myth-busting-spanish-complementary-tax/


That's basically what happened with my home here. My purchase price was below the official value so I paid tax on the official value.


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

Also, if you look at a property and it has not been re-evaluated for Catastral value recently, it might look good on paper with the tax base being 2% of a low value.

But you would need to factor in that when the revise it (the whole country is slowly having this revision), you may find that although the rate would drop to 1.1%, that is no good for you if the catastral value is later tripled.


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## DonMarco (Nov 20, 2016)

NickZ said:


> Okay let's assume eventually the world returns to normal :fingerscrossed:
> 
> Does anybody have a rough estimate on non resident taxes and fees in the Almeria province? Small one or two bedroom apartment.
> 
> ...


Why not try a dummy run using the online form Modelo 210. Then you would know exactly.

https://www.citizensadvice.org.es/wp-content/uploads/Form-210-Payment-Abroad-V1.pdf


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

DonMarco said:


> Why not try a dummy run using the online form Modelo 210. Then you would know exactly.
> 
> https://www.citizensadvice.org.es/wp-content/uploads/Form-210-Payment-Abroad-V1.pdf


But you need to know the catastral value in order to be able to do that, if you want the result to be anywhere near accurate.


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## NickZ (Jun 26, 2009)

The places I will likely be looking at aren't that old. I think one on my potential wish list was built in 2006. I'm guessing between everything that happened in the last 14 years the value isn't too far out of whack. Famous last words I know -)


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## Barriej (Jul 23, 2012)

NickZ said:


> The places I will likely be looking at aren't that old. I think one on my potential wish list was built in 2006. I'm guessing between everything that happened in the last 14 years the value isn't too far out of whack. Famous last words I know -)


You might be surprised. 

We purchased a 3 bed 2 bath 2nd floor apartment in march 2019.
Was built 2005 and we paid 17 thousand euros less than what it sold for new. We got it from the original owners, so thats how I know.
However its catastral value is still at the original amount. So I paid the extra tax. Cant remember off hand how much, but I had been warned about this from our solicitor.


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## NickZ (Jun 26, 2009)

Barriej said:


> You might be surprised.
> 
> We purchased a 3 bed 2 bath 2nd floor apartment in march 2019.
> Was built 2005 and we paid 17 thousand euros less than what it sold for new. We got it from the original owners, so thats how I know.
> However its catastral value is still at the original amount. So I paid the extra tax. Cant remember off hand how much, but I had been warned about this from our solicitor.


I was thinking in terms of the 1 or 2 % annual tax.


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## DonMarco (Nov 20, 2016)

Lynn R said:


> But you need to know the catastral value in order to be able to do that, if you want the result to be anywhere near accurate.


I would have thought any property owner would know their catastral value.


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

DonMarco said:


> I would have thought any property owner would know their catastral value.


A property owner would, but the OP is someone who is considering buying.


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## Barriej (Jul 23, 2012)

NickZ said:


> I was thinking in terms of the 1 or 2 % annual tax.


Example using ours.

Cadastral value is 91k. We are in the Alicante region (postcode 03520)
So our multiplier is 1.1%

Thats 91000 / 100 *1.1 = 1001 euros.

Tax is on that amount. So at the mo we are EU citizens (not residents yet) 
Tax is 19% of 1001 = 190.19 euros. Not enough to even worry about. Even at 24%, which it will be after 31st Dec 2020 gives me 240.24 euros to pay (but we won't as, we should be resident by the end of the year) fingers crossed.


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

We shouldn't get confused about what the catastral value is meant to represent. It was never intended to be a representation of the commercial value as it cannot take into account subjective factors.

As an example, I live on the 10th floor of a block with a south-west facing balcany with a view of the mountains, but the catastral value of my apartment is the same as the 1st floor one with a north-east facing balcony and a view of the street.

Another way to look at it is like the venal value of a vehicle used for tax, registration and insurance purposes. According to that, a vehicle that is 10 years old is virtually worthless (residual value), but the market value can be 10 times higher.


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## NickZ (Jun 26, 2009)

How long is the average time on market in southern Spain? 

I found one interesting property. Google streetview shows it has had a for sale sign since at least May 2017.


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

NickZ said:


> How long is the average time on market in southern Spain?
> 
> I found one interesting property. Google streetview shows it has had a for sale sign since at least May 2017.


You can find some information about averages in this 2019 article. It isn't unusual for properties to be on the market for years, though.

https://www.eleconomista.es/empresa...nda-se-templa-aumenta-el-tiempo-de-venta.html

We sold our old house in 2017, 3 months after putting it on the market, listed with just one agent.. 
Another house nearby (similar type and size, similar state of repair, similar sale price - although the vendors had reduced the asking price by almost 50% by the time it sold) sold around the same time after being on the market for 8 years, continuously, listed with just about every agent in the surrounding area.

When we were looking for a new property to buy, we found something we liked being sold privately. We agreed to pay the asking price, were cash buyers because we'd already sold our house and moved into temporary accommodation so could complete quickly. The day before we were to sign the compraventa the vendor pulled out of the sale and would not give a reason. That property had been for sale since 2014 at that stage, ie 3 years.


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## Barriej (Jul 23, 2012)

NickZ said:


> How long is the average time on market in southern Spain?
> 
> I found one interesting property. Google streetview shows it has had a for sale sign since at least May 2017.


Thats a piece of string question.

The flat we have was on the market about 6 months before we purchased it, there were 2 others for sale round the corner (at higher prices because they have a better outlook) 
Both of these are still for sale some 18months later, one of them has just been reduced by €10k.


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## NickZ (Jun 26, 2009)

The one I'm looking at seems to be used as a vacation rental. The photos show the exit sign. Fire extinguisher. Actually at least fifteen apartments in that complex are on AirBnb. Three or four are currently for sale. Okay it's a large complex of supposedly 350 apartments.

I can understand the ones that have been put up for sale recently. With the virus things are going to be rough. But the one that has been for sale for years just seems curious. The prices are all low enough that just the August rental would likely pay a years mortgage.


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## Juan C (Sep 4, 2017)

I believe for the non residents the 210 tax is based on the purchase price or catastral value, which ever is the highest 

For those who are not aware :
Non EU nationals (after the transition period that means U.K. nationals too) who are non resident in spain, pay 24% tax on the gross rental income. So no expenses are deductible. 

One example I looked at showed, a uk national now would have 2,000 euro income after tax. After transition period, with the same gross rental income, but no expenses deductible, net income 80 euros. 

PS. The ‘second home tax’ is payable by Spanish tax residents on all properties, in addition to their main home in spain, which they own worldwide. I pay that tax on a lock up garage I own in spain and an unlet property my wife owns in philipinnes, based on 50% of the purchase price. It is included in my annual tax declaration.


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