# Not buying Anymore.... But?????



## promethian (May 10, 2014)

Me and the missus are retiring early next year.. Me 56 her 52.

We were looking to buy somewhere in Spain, but to be quite honest its a complete minefield.

We also don't like the idea of being a resident after staying more than 183 days etc. Declaring UK income... Re registering cars etc etc.

I don't trust the Spanish government from dipping into my pensions and saving.. ( I don't trust UK government either but not as much lol..)

So we are thinking about going about things in a different way.

What we intend to do... if its possible... is rent in Spain for 6 months then, hop across the border and rent in Portugal for 6 months etc etc etc until we get fed up doing it or things improve till we eventually buy somewhere.

This way we will still be British registered as we would probably spend most time in uk ish.

What problems can anyone highlight to us in doing things this way???
We cant think of any.. apart from Car registration.

How long do you have to register a UK car... is it 3 months or 6 months... As I will still be a UK resident I will be on UK plates and only renting for less than 6 months/ 183 days.

The EU directive makes no mention of time periods, durations etc, the directive is quite clear.

If you are a citizen of a member state then you are free to use your car in any other member state without having to register your car or pay any taxes in the host state.

I also will not be working.

Surely motor homers don't have to register their vehicle, if they stay longer than 3 months????

please feel free to add your thoughts


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

The first thing that springs to mind is that you will lose your entitlement to NHS care if you live permanently outside the UK as you say you intend to do.
Pretending to be UK resident and using these services when you are not entitled is fraud.

There are other complications too relating to car use etc. but others will no doubt tell you in detail about these.

Those of us happily resident and compliant with all Spanish rules and regulations don't worry about pension and other asset grabs, the UK leaving the EU, the collapse of the euro and such terrors.
Life here is too pleasant to be distracted by such chimeras!


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## 90199 (Mar 21, 2010)

You are supposed to apply for residencia within 90 days, many don't bother, however there is a penalty if caught not doing do. 183 days relates to tax resident, you have to make a tax return. If you are rich and your overseas assets are over 50,000€ either in a bank and or houses, or I believe insurance or investments then they have to be declared.

I have completed all three, and with the advice of an accountant and a financial adviser, I have just arranged for my assets to avoid CGT on death. and also to avoid any further declarations in respect of declaring the said assets.

I do not have the same worries that you have, i am so content in my lifestyle that I have applied for Spanish nationality, this also has financial advantages, as did obtaining resedencia.

Hope this will help you and good luck with your new life.


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## extranjero (Nov 16, 2012)

promethian said:


> Me and the missus are retiring early next year.. Me 56 her 52.
> 
> We were looking to buy somewhere in Spain, but to be quite honest its a complete minefield.
> 
> ...


So, where will you be paying your income tax? Spain or Portugal, it has to be one or the other if you are spending 6 months in each country
As your EHIC can only be used for emergencies for 3 months, how will you obtain healthcare?

I don't think you have researched enough about this


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## promethian (May 10, 2014)

extranjero said:


> So, where will you be paying your income tax? Spain or Portugal, it has to be one or the other if you are spending 6 months in each country
> As your EHIC can only be used for emergencies for 3 months, how will you obtain healthcare?
> 
> I don't think you have researched enough about this


UK... and you dont have to fiscally resident if you spend less than 183 days in a country.... did you do enough research of that before you answered?

I can also get healthcare policy independant of EHIC... so wheres the problem there?????


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

promethian said:


> What we intend to do... if its possible... is rent in Spain for 6 months then, hop across the border and rent in Portugal for 6 months etc etc etc until we get fed up doing it or things improve till we eventually buy somewhere.
> 
> This way we will still be British registered as we would probably spend most time in uk ish.


How will you manage to spend most of your time in the UK if you rent in Spain for 6 months, hop across the border and rent in Portugal for 6 months etc etc? Last time I looked, there were still only 12 months in one tax year.

Why would the Spanish Government be wanting to dip into your bank accounts/savings when they are on the verge of announcing reductions in various types of tax, rather than on a cliff edge awaiting an EU bailout? I think you've been reading too many scare stories.


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## promethian (May 10, 2014)

Hepa said:


> You are supposed to apply for residencia within 90 days, many don't bother, however there is a penalty if caught not doing do. 183 days relates to tax resident, you have to make a tax return. If you are rich and your overseas assets are over 50,000€ either in a bank and or houses, or I believe insurance or investments then they have to be declared.
> 
> I have completed all three, and with the advice of an accountant and a financial adviser, I have just arranged for my assets to avoid CGT on death. and also to avoid any further declarations in respect of declaring the said assets.
> 
> ...


I'm afraid you are wrong... you have to apply for residency within 3 months if you are staying longer than 183 days.... you could be on a 3-4 month holiday

What exactly are the benefits of residency?


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## promethian (May 10, 2014)

Lynn R said:


> How will you manage to spend most of your time in the UK if you rent in Spain for 6 months, hop across the border and rent in Portugal for 6 months etc etc? Last time I looked, there were still only 12 months in one tax year.
> 
> Why would the Spanish Government be wanting to dip into your bank accounts/savings when they are on the verge of announcing reductions in various types of tax, rather than on a cliff edge awaiting an EU bailout? I think you've been reading too many scare stories.


I said I intend to rent.... not stay there... I will be spending approx 4 months in the UK in a year... and yes well done there are 12 months in a year


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## extranjero (Nov 16, 2012)

promethian said:


> UK... and you dont have to fiscally resident if you spend less than 183 days in a country.... did you do enough research of that before you answered?
> 
> I can also get healthcare policy independant of EHIC... so wheres the problem there?????


If you are spending 6 months each in Spain and Portugal, presumably you are spending more than 183 in one of those countries? Previously, you did not make it clear that you would be spending 4 months in UK!
So, you're spending 4 months in each country, then, not 6?


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

promethian said:


> UK... and you dont have to fiscally resident if you spend less than 183 days in a country.... did you do enough research of that before you answered?
> 
> I can also get healthcare policy independant of EHIC... so wheres the problem there?????


So...if you will be paying income tax in the UK you will presumably have a UK address.....although you will not be resident in the UK. 
I'm not sure but I think you cannot legally drive your UK plated vehicle for more than ninety days in Spain and as has been said previously you are required to register your presence after a certain period of time, ninety days. Yiu are required to show proof of income and savings, paid into a Spanish bank account as well as proof of health insurance.
Then there is the issue of car insurance. 
Health and car insurance issues can be resolved of course.
But I wonder if you have done your research that thoroughly....EU Directives nearly always have provision for individual member states to have their own requirements for such issues as residence, car registration etc. When I lived in Prague I had to meet different requirements from those in Spain.
Tax on pension income if accrued from a government or local government pension is usually subject to a DTO and paid in the UK so the Spanish Government would have no claim on your pension.


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## promethian (May 10, 2014)

extranjero said:


> If you are spending 6 months each in Spain and Portugal, presumably you are spending more than 183 in one of those countries? Previously, you did not make it clear that you would be spending 4 months in UK!
> So, you're spending 4 months in each country, then, not 6?


 I did say rent... not live, I just don't want to come under Spanish jurisdiction as I have not got the faith you have in the Spanish bureaucratic system.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

promethian said:


> I'm afraid you are wrong... you have to apply for residency within 3 months if you are staying longer than 183 days.... you could be on a 3-4 month holiday
> 
> What exactly are the benefits of residency?


Being legal and not cheating the systems. Complying with the law. Little things like that.

As you seem to have all the information you require, why ask people living in Spain about these issues?


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## promethian (May 10, 2014)

mrypg9 said:


> So...if you will be paying income tax in the UK you will presumably have a UK address.....although you will not be resident in the UK.
> I'm not sure but I think you cannot legally drive your UK plated vehicle for more than ninety days in Spain and as has been said previously you are required to register your presence after a certain period of time, ninety days. Yiu are required to show proof of income and savings, paid into a Spanish bank account as well as proof of health insurance.
> Then there is the issue of car insurance.
> Health and car insurance issues can be resolved of course.
> ...


None of this is true... you can be on holiday for 6 months in Spain if you want.... after that you stop being a Tourist.

I will still have propery in the UK, where I am registered


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## promethian (May 10, 2014)

mrypg9 said:


> So...if you will be paying income tax in the UK you will presumably have a UK address.....although you will not be resident in the UK.
> I'm not sure but I think you cannot legally drive your UK plated vehicle for more than ninety days in Spain and as has been said previously you are required to register your presence after a certain period of time, ninety days. Yiu are required to show proof of income and savings, paid into a Spanish bank account as well as proof of health insurance.
> Then there is the issue of car insurance.
> Health and car insurance issues can be resolved of course.
> ...


None of this is true... you can be on holiday for 6 months in Spain if you want.... after that you stop being a Tourist.

I will still have property in the UK, where I am registered


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## promethian (May 10, 2014)

mrypg9 said:


> Being legal and not cheating the systems. Complying with the law. Little things like that.
> 
> As you seem to have all the information you require, why ask people living in Spain about these issues?


I am not trying to cheat the system, just abide by the rules.

I am asking if there are any I haven't thought of... why are you so arsey FFS
If you have nothing positive to add dont bother replying


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

promethian said:


> None of this is true... you can be on holiday for 6 months in Spain if you want.... after that you stop being a Tourist.
> 
> I will still have property in the UK, where I am registered


I can only marvel at your extensive knowledge of the rules and regulations related to living in Spain.


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## extranjero (Nov 16, 2012)

promethian said:


> I did say rent... not live, I just don't want to come under Spanish jurisdiction as I have not got the faith you have in the Spanish bureaucratic system.


If you are renting in a country you are living there, and whether you are a property owner or renting, after 183 days you are resident for tax.
How can you pay your income tax, other than that on a government pension, in the UK, if you are only spending 4 months there?


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

promethian said:


> I am not trying to cheat the system, just abide by the rules.
> 
> I am asking if there are any I haven't thought of... why are you so arsey FFS
> If you have nothing positive to add dont bother replying


Firstly, I did not suggest you were trying to cheat the system.
Secondly, I do not take kindly to abuse from strangers on forums.
Be polite or sign off.


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## promethian (May 10, 2014)

mrypg9 said:


> I can only marvel at your extensive knowledge of the rules and regulations related to living in Spain.


Are you still posting on this thread............ zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz


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## 90199 (Mar 21, 2010)

promethian said:


> I'm afraid you are wrong... you have to apply for residency within 3 months if you are staying longer than 183 days.... you could be on a 3-4 month holiday
> 
> What exactly are the benefits of residency?


I tried to help you in my first post, you obviously disagree, so I will not comment further.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Hepa said:


> I tried to help you in my first post, you obviously disagree, so I will not comment further.


S/he doesn't need help. Knows it all.


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## promethian (May 10, 2014)

extranjero said:


> If you are renting in a country you are living there, and whether you are a property owner or renting, after 183 days you are resident for tax.
> How can you pay your income tax, other than that on a government pension, in the UK, if you are only spending 4 months there?


So if you are on holiday you live in a country.... really? Thats new to me.

Do I also apply for residency in Portugal when I rent there too?


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

There are people on thirty years holiday in Spain. Some still drive their UK plated cars. No need for tax or MOT! They are resident in Spain but have no NIE, neither are they registered on the padron.
Some fly back for NHS care as they have property which they rent - no tax declared - which serves as a UK address for various purposes.
Yup, you can holiday for as long as you like.


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## promethian (May 10, 2014)

promethian said:


> So if you are on holiday you live in a country.... really? Thats new to me.
> 
> Do I also apply for residency in Portugal when I rent there too?





mrypg9 said:


> There are people on thirty years holiday in Spain. Some still drive their UK plated cars. No need for tax or MOT! They are resident in Spain but have no NIE, neither are they registered on the padron.
> Some fly back for NHS care as they have property which they rent - no tax declared - which serves as a UK address for various purposes.
> Yup, you can holiday for as long as you like.


Thankyou,

There is no way I would not Tax and MOT my car... surely insurance is not valid for a start.

I want to do everything legal and within the rules.

I was looking into RV ing & travelling...Europe as well, but as rents are so so cheap I can rent for a period, then move on anywhere as I see fit.

I'm not trying to cheat the system... just live within it, in my own way


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## jimenato (Nov 21, 2009)

extranjero said:


> If you are renting in a country you are living there, and whether you are a property owner or renting, after 183 days you are resident for tax.
> How can you pay your income tax, other than that on a government pension, in the UK, if you are only spending 4 months there?


Easily actually. I spend no time in the UK but am required to do a tax return as I have a let property there. I include my pension income on the return. 

When I do my Spanish return, any tax I have paid in the UK is subtracted from that which I have to pay in Spain.

183 days is exactly 6 months. If you spend 182 days or fewer in Spain and the same in Portugal then you do not become tax resident in either. You have to pay your taxes somewhere and I'm sure the UK tax authorities will be pleased to take yours.

Health cover will be no problem - health insurance is quite cheap in Spain.

Car legalities might not be so easy - it would be worth investigating a cheap rental car.

Mind you I'm not sure why I or anybody else is bothering to help you - you obviously think you know the lot and have an bad attitude (that's the OP not extranjero)


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

jimenato said:


> Easily actually. I spend no time in the UK but am required to do a tax return as I have a let property there. I include my pension income on the return.
> 
> When I do my Spanish return, any tax I have paid in the UK is subtracted from that which I have to pay in Spain.
> 
> ...


I think it's worth pointing out though, Simon, that whilst it's true that the insurance premiums may be inexpensive, you very often have to pay through the nose for any specialist treatment and prescriptions.
Before Sandra became eligible for regional health care she paid thousands of euros for treatment for skin nasties. The annual premium was around 500 euros.
I forked out a lot of money for consultants' fees ...and for totally inaccurate diagnoses. I'm more than happy with the Andalucian health service.


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## promethian (May 10, 2014)

jimenato said:


> Easily actually. I spend no time in the UK but am required to do a tax return as I have a let property there. I include my pension income on the return.
> 
> When I do my Spanish return, any tax I have paid in the UK is subtracted from that which I have to pay in Spain.
> 
> ...


Aha ... seems someone else has been asking the same questions...

And heres an answer re the UK reg car 6 months.

http://www.expatforum.com/expats/sp...n-visitor-period-greater-than-3-months-4.html

Just need to find that info on an official spanish site now


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Find what?? there were various answers to that query. But there is a correct one.

You posted this:

... *you can be on holiday for 6 months in Spain if you want.... after that you stop being a Tourist*.

I'd be interested as no doubt would others to have a link or reference to the site where you found that information. How, for example, if you hadn't notified the authorities that you were present in Spain as a tourist when you arrived, would they know if you were to exceed the six-month time period?


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

*Here's another post from that thread:



"When you reside in Spain for more than 3 months, you are required to register with the local authorities and apply for a registration certificate"

2) Mentions about car registration

"The rules on vehicle registration remain by and large governed by national law and are not regulated by EU legislation. Therefore if you are residing in Spain, you need to register your car with the authorities there. We understand that the deadline to register your car in is usually six months from the date you first entered the country in question with the intention to reside there"


BUT it also stated this !!!


We understand that when you enter Spain with your car, you should obtain a temporary registration certificate from Spanish customs. This will enable you to drive in Spain in your UK-registered car for up to 6 months as explained on this official Spanish tourist office website: 
Driving in Spain: practical information and advice. |spain.info in English


And this is the statement from the official Spanish Website

Quote:

"Tourists travelling in their own vehicles should be aware that the following documentation is required:

Temporary registration certificate: It is valid for six months and you can request it at customs."

So even if you take a 1 day day-trip into Spain you have to get an import certificate*.

Others insist the period is three months, ninety days. But the rules may be different if you have a rental address which if you have registered as required you would of course have. Tourists are surely by definition 'touring'.

So...what do the 'official' as opposed to forum opinions state?


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

If the OP thinks the Spanish Government would be likely to steal all his money (and whilst they have their faults, personally I think that's nonsense but he's entitled to his opinion), I'm wondering why he hasn't considered just taking up residence in Portugal, where there is no inheritance tax between spouses (something that concerns a lot of people about Spain, I know) and by all accounts not the same problem with illegal houses? Or is it just a distrust of foreigners in general - which would make it a bit odd wishing to spend two thirds of every year living amongst them.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

we do seem to be going around in circles don't we 

Spain _*requires*_ you to register as resident if you are, or intend to be, here 90+ days

you have to prove that you have healthcare provision & sufficient income to support yourselves in order to register

this has nothing to do with tax residency - that's a different matter entirely

and it has nothing to to with there being benefits (or not) to doing so

if you won't believe us, perhaps you'll believe this EU website - & it's in plain English, too

EUROPA


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## promethian (May 10, 2014)

mrypg9 said:


> Find what?? there were various answers to that query. But there is a correct one.
> 
> You posted this:
> 
> ...


As I said I'm trying to do things correctly, I'm sure the Guardia could ask you to prove you hadn't been resident longer than 6 months... then its up to you to prove otherwise. I would be sure to hand them the proof ready if they asked to save a lot of hassle.

I have an good idea of EU regulations and all EU countries have to abide with them. The 6 month residency rule is key for changing ones situation. The reason I am asking on this site is that the populous is living in Spain and may know how to access the Spanish Gov version of them for reference.

I can easily access the British version.. but Spanish gov versions for me are a little more difficult.


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## promethian (May 10, 2014)

xabiachica said:


> we do seem to be going around in circles don't we
> 
> Spain _*requires*_ you to register as resident if you are, or intend to be, here 90+ days
> 
> ...


Oh... seems I am wrong on that apologies to all.

Well as long as its just residency and not for Tax purposes, its just a bit of a pain...


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

promethian said:


> As I said I'm trying to do things correctly, I'm sure the Guardia could ask you to prove you hadn't been resident longer than 6 months... then its up to you to prove otherwise. I would be sure to hand them the proof ready if they asked to save a lot of hassle.
> 
> I have an good idea of EU regulations and all EU countries have to abide with them. The 6 month residency rule is key for changing ones situation. The reason I am asking on this site is that the populous is living in Spain and may know how to access the Spanish Gov version of them for reference.
> 
> I can easily access the British version.. but Spanish gov versions for me are a little more difficult.


I have a good idea of EU regulations too. My job until recently was to give seminars explaining them.
So can I ask again where you found that rule about being a tourist for six months as I am genuinely interested in knowing about it.

By 'populous'/populace I take it you mean Spanish-speaking British residents here. But if as you say the rules are the same for all EU countries the Spanish and English versions should be identical, no?


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

promethian said:


> As I said I'm trying to do things correctly, I'm sure the Guardia could ask you to prove you hadn't been resident longer than 6 months... then its up to you to prove otherwise. I would be sure to hand them the proof ready if they asked to save a lot of hassle.
> 
> I have an good idea of EU regulations and all EU countries have to abide with them. The 6 month residency rule is key for changing ones situation. The reason I am asking on this site is that the populous is living in Spain and may know how to access the Spanish Gov version of them for reference.
> 
> I can easily access the British version.. but Spanish gov versions for me are a little more difficult.


read my post above - & yes, the Guardia or traffic police *will* expect you to prove that you have been in the country less than 90 days

I once recieved a phone call at 2am from someone who lived here (more than 2 years by that time) - he wanted me to pretend to be a friend of the family & say that he was here on holiday - he had been stopped by the traffic police for some driving issue

I refused to lie for them - they no longer live here - & my phone is now put on silent once I go to bed................


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## promethian (May 10, 2014)

xabiachica said:


> read my post above - & yes, the Guardia or traffic police *will* expect you to prove that you have been in the country less than 90 days
> 
> I once recieved a phone call at 2am from someone who lived here (more than 2 years by that time) - he wanted me to pretend to be a friend of the family & say that he was here on holiday - he had been stopped by the traffic police for some driving issue
> 
> I refused to lie for them - they no longer live here - & my phone is now put on silent once I go to bed................


Yes sorry, I accept what it says...

As long as its just for residency then that's OK...

How does Insurance work then, is there such a thing as European insurance that is accepted by Spain and other EU countries?


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## gus-lopez (Jan 4, 2010)

promethian said:


> Thankyou,
> 
> There is no way I would not Tax and MOT my car... surely insurance is not valid for a start.
> 
> ...


I'll explain the rules then.
You are a resident & required to register as one after 90 days in Spain . This has nothing to do with paying tax & being a fiscal resident. This is cumulative , so after 89 days you can leave & the clock resets.

You are a fiscal resident after 183 days. This is cumulative.

You can be a fiscal resident without being a resident & a resident without being a fiscal resident.

No ,you cannot legally have a '3 month+ holiday' without obtaining a certificate of non-residence. 
You certainly cannot have a '3 month +holiday' in Spain without said certificate otherwise you are required to register as resident.

" So if you are on holiday you live in a country.... really? Thats new to me." 
Then you learn something every day . As it is quite true & the M/H's below are all breaking various laws. 
You need to learn the EU rules & how they interact with individual country legislation. 

The majority of Long term motorhomers , & I have been into this in great detail, are all breaking many laws. Not only UK but whatever country they are in. Some obtain a cert. of non-residence majority don't. The vast majority , certainly if out of UK more than 183 days have forefeited their right to healthcare/Ehic , etc.
We are also into whether the DVLA consider that the vehicle should have been exported when more than 6 months out of UK. 
Regardless of whether you own a home in the UK pay income tax , national insurance, council tax, vat, whatever, you have no right whatsoever to healthcare including an EHIC ,unless your feet are their on the ground. 
Legally , if you split it between 3 countries , 4 months a piece you are not entitled to anything anywhere.

Additionally there is an all-encompassing catch-all specifically to prevent this occurring. If you enter an EU state KNOWING that you are going to stay in excess of the period laid down for residency,registration on foreigners list, etc; then you must register immediately regardless .

Earlier in the year I had to spend time in the UK . The likelihood was that it would be in excess of 90 days continuously & so would have required me to re-register as a UK citizen. I wouldn't have stayed ,I would have left but even that wasn't clear-cut. 
In the UK now it is not just the 90 day rule; or the 183 days & you are a tax resident, it also goes on to averaging 91+ days over a 4 year period. 

It is now so complicated that it is virtually impossible to comply with laws in one EU state without breaking others in ones where you are resident or vice -versa.

Now by complying with the UK requirements I was technically breaking the new Spanish rule that applies to all Spanish nationals, & under EU rules that must include any registered foreign residents , that 30 day continuously out of Spain & you lose the right to healthcare & have to re-apply! 

So a Spaniard can't even have a 31 day 'holiday'. :lol:


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## promethian (May 10, 2014)

mrypg9 said:


> I have a good idea of EU regulations too. My job until recently was to give seminars explaining them.
> So can I ask again where you found that rule about being a tourist for six months as I am genuinely interested in knowing about it.
> 
> By 'populous'/populace I take it you mean Spanish-speaking British residents here. But if as you say the rules are the same for all EU countries the Spanish and English versions should be identical, no?


I was wrong sorry


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## promethian (May 10, 2014)

gus-lopez said:


> I'll explain the rules then.
> You are a resident & required to register as one after 90 days in Spain . This has nothing to do with paying tax & being a fiscal resident. This is cumulative , so after 89 days you can leave & the clock resets.
> 
> You are a fiscal resident after 183 days. This is cumulative.
> ...


Oh my Gawd....

So if you are a Spanish resident do you automatically stop becoming a UK resident.... say if you stay in Spain 4 months but spend the rest of time in UK??

I will still have my house in UK lived in by my Son


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

promethian said:


> I was wrong sorry


Apology graciously accepted.
We do our best to try to help people. When I first left the UK to live abroad many years ago now I was very poorly prepared for life as opposed to extended stays in another country. I made mistakes and got ripped off. 
This site was very helpful for me when I decided to move from Prague to Spain. By taking advice I avoided the mistakes I'd made before.
You also have to understand that all of us regulars are very law-abiding We pay our taxes, register ourselves and our cars, do all the right things. We want to live in Spain, not off Spain.
It peeves us to see or hear about people who flout all the rules, dodge taxes, drive crappy old illegal cars...
Now you may not have intended to do that but sadly there are many who do.


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## gus-lopez (Jan 4, 2010)

In many places the Guardia will ASSUME that you are a resident , or should be a resident, if they have seen your vehicle about for a while & issue 'notice of requirement to rematriculate your vehicle' . If this happened it would be a nightmare for you. 

It isn't up to them to prove you are a resident but for you to prove you aren't. This notice ,once issued , is then on the Trafico database & if not complied with , or the vehicle removed from Spain ( which in itself would be illegal) before the deadline it would be subject to being impounded if stopped again.

This is why you need the 'certificate of non-residency'. Obtainable from National police station/foreigners office.


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## gus-lopez (Jan 4, 2010)

promethian said:


> Oh my Gawd....
> 
> So if you are a Spanish resident do you automatically stop becoming a UK resident.... say if you stay in Spain 4 months but spend the rest of time in UK??
> 
> I will still have my house in UK lived in by my Son


Theoretically , yes. EU rules state that you can't be resident in 2 states at one time , even though the UK rules & the Spanish rules would require you to be under there National requirements. 
To be honest , not enough thought was given to people living in other countries/more than 2 countries/ moving about & many laws & Eu rules contradict each other.
Your best way, avoiding the requirement to register, is to obtain the certificate of non-residency from the National police ( In Spain, don't know about Portugal). You can then be on an 'extended holiday.


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## promethian (May 10, 2014)

gus-lopez said:


> Theoretically , yes. EU rules state that you can't be resident in 2 states at one time , even though the UK rules & the Spanish rules would require you to be under there National requirements.
> To be honest , not enough thought was given to people living in other countries/more than 2 countries/ moving about & many laws & Eu rules contradict each other.
> Your best way, avoiding the requirement to register, is to obtain the certificate of non-residency from the National police ( In Spain, don't know about Portugal). You can then be on an 'extended holiday.


Ah thanks... that seems more sensible. I can ask on the Portuguese forum regarding issues there.

I may decide to rent in Greece for a while too if the fancy takes me.

I have seen some lovely places to rent for long periods at ridiculously low rents already, and the idea of rent hopping around Europe really appeals, and even the SWMBO is up for it.


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## promethian (May 10, 2014)

So according to this

Importing a Car to Spain advice

If I get a temporary import I can use the car in Spain for more than 3 months too


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## gus-lopez (Jan 4, 2010)

promethian said:


> So according to this
> 
> Importing a Car to Spain advice
> 
> If I get a temporary import I can use the car in Spain for more than 3 months too


No it doesn't actually mean 'temporary import' in the sense that you get a piece of paper ,etc. It just means that according to EU rules you can run around for up to 182 dfays. BUT , unfortunately the Spaniards won't let you & dependant on region & area within region they won't let you run around for over 30 days. Additionally they have just proposed bringing in a new law that states that residents & non-resident holiday home owners must drive a Spanish registered vehicle. I.E. if you come down in your UK car you could have problems. Legally under EU rules I cannot see that it will take off BUT next door to me , in Almeria, the Guardia decided that anyone with an NIE number was a resident . They started dishing out replate your car papers topeople on holiday. Even when it was explained to El Jefe, El Teniente, that an NIE number didn't make you a resident he found it very hard to believe.

That's what you are dealing with in some regions. 
A motorhome is looked on differently by the Guardia . They know that he is going home ( So they assume!) I've no idea why when they see that the same ones have been kicking about for months on end, but a car in identical circumstances they'd dish out replate papers too.


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## promethian (May 10, 2014)

gus-lopez said:


> No it doesn't actually mean 'temporary import' in the sense that you get a piece of paper ,etc. It just means that according to EU rules you can run around for up to 182 dfays. BUT , unfortunately the Spaniards won't let you & dependant on region & area within region they won't let you run around for over 30 days. Additionally they have just proposed bringing in a new law that states that residents & non-resident holiday home owners must drive a Spanish registered vehicle. I.E. if you come down in your UK car you could have problems. Legally under EU rules I cannot see that it will take off BUT next door to me , in Almeria, the Guardia decided that anyone with an NIE number was a resident . They started dishing out replate your car papers topeople on holiday. Even when it was explained to El Jefe, El Teniente, that an NIE number didn't make you a resident he found it very hard to believe.
> 
> That's what you are dealing with in some regions.
> A motorhome is looked on differently by the Guardia . They know that he is going home ( So they assume!) I've no idea why when they see that the same ones have been kicking about for months on end, but a car in identical circumstances they'd dish out replate papers too.


All this is sounding very disheartening, I feel like giving Spain a miss and just research other southern EU countries or are they all the same???

Why should I be obliged to get a Spanish registered vehicle that I want to use in other EU countries for just as long as periods?

I am getting the same smell of Spanish Money Grabbing that put me off buying in Spain after I researched a little into it.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

promethian said:


> All this is sounding very disheartening, I feel like giving Spain a miss and just research other southern EU countries or are they all the same???
> 
> Why should I be obliged to get a Spanish registered vehicle that I want to use in other EU countries for just as long as periods?
> 
> I am getting the same smell of Spanish Money Grabbing that put me off buying in Spain after I researched a little into it.


Personally I don't think it's so much money grabbing as bad organisation, but it has to be said that Spain needs every penny it can get right now.

It seems that you're quite convinced that Spain is out to get you, and if you came here you'd probably be on the look out for that, and if that's what you're looking out for, that's what you're going to find, so yes, I agree, you should give Spain a miss. Why don't you try Greece?


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

promethian said:


> All this is sounding very disheartening, I feel like giving Spain a miss and just research other southern EU countries or are they all the same???
> 
> Why should I be obliged to get a Spanish registered vehicle that I want to use in other EU countries for just as long as periods?
> 
> I am getting the same smell of Spanish Money Grabbing that put me off buying in Spain after I researched a little into it.


You haven't lived in Spain and you admit that your previous research led you to false conclusions...yet now you say you 'smell Spanish money-grabbing'.
You must have a very long nose to detect it from the UK.

What evidence do you have of this 'Spanish money-grabbing' I wonder? What exactly do you mean by it? 
I have lived in Spain for over five years, visited for long periods over many years before becoming resident here and have yet to come across any examples of what you are referring to.
However...I have come across cases of money-grabbing, cheating British immigrants here. Incompetent tradespeople, people who live under the radar, people who live off the black economy, people who avoid taxes by driving British cars, people who cheat the UK welfare system...as for house purchase, there are very many rogue Brits in that trade here in Spain.
Stop and think about what you have posted. It really is an offensive comment based on what seems to be zero experience. You were wrong before, you are wrong again.
PW is right. Spain is not the place for you. But then there are few places left in Europe or the world where we Brits can go and do what we please. 
It's some time now since the world map stopped being coloured pink.


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## promethian (May 10, 2014)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Personally I don't think it's so much money grabbing as bad organisation, but it has to be said that Spain needs every penny it can get right now.
> 
> It seems that you're quite convinced that Spain is out to get you, and if you came here you'd probably be on the look out for that, and if that's what you're looking out for, that's what you're going to find, so yes, I agree, you should give Spain a miss. Why don't you try Greece?


I don't think Spain is out to get me in particular, that sounds a little uber inventive.

But what Gus-Lopez just stated above seems to be really absurd when all I want to do is comply with the rules.

I live in near Kings Lynn and we have many hundreds of Polish, Latvian, Lithuanian registered vehicles on the roads around here. The UK doesn't invent its own rules just to harass these people off the roads as long as they are EU legal.

Whats the point of the EU after all?


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## promethian (May 10, 2014)

mrypg9 said:


> You haven't lived in Spain and you admit that your previous research led you to false conclusions...yet now you say you 'smell Spanish money-grabbing'.
> You must have a very long nose to detect it from the UK.
> 
> What evidence do you have of this 'Spanish money-grabbing' I wonder? What exactly do you mean by it?
> ...


??????

I lived in many countries in the world.. all over the world... dont even point your little Englander finger at me.

As I pointed out above Whats wrong with following rules.

I find your acceptance of the non compliance of Spanish regions offensive too


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## promethian (May 10, 2014)

mrypg9 said:


> You haven't lived in Spain and you admit that your previous research led you to false conclusions...yet now you say you 'smell Spanish money-grabbing'.
> You must have a very long nose to detect it from the UK.
> 
> What evidence do you have of this 'Spanish money-grabbing' I wonder? What exactly do you mean by it?
> ...



Sorry but your reply needs a further response.

Spain is officially recognized as having one of the largest Black economies in Europe.

You must either be blind or just totally stupid to have posted that drivel.

If you've spent 5 years as a resident and not noticed then you have must have pickled your brain with sangria.

I run my own company in the UK and deal with EU legislation as a daily occurrence.

Wherever I end up it will still be running.

So your stereotype British postings fall on stoney ground with me... and I dont expect you to apologise unlike I had the guts too when I was wrong, because I sense the nature of the beast.


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## Lolito (Aug 25, 2012)

I've been reading this thread with interest and wondered why people felt the need to reply to this person. 

He has been pretty insulting with his comments.

He seems to know everything about Spain yet he's still wasting his time asking silly questions here.

Maybe he should take the advice given to him earlier. Try Greece. I don't think Spain needs/wants people like him.


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## gus-lopez (Jan 4, 2010)

promethian said:


> I live in near Kings Lynn and we have many hundreds of Polish, Latvian, Lithuanian registered vehicles on the roads around here. The UK doesn't invent its own rules just to harass these people off the roads as long as they are EU legal.
> 
> Whats the point of the EU after all?


Nor does the UK enforce the law either. All of those vehicles that you describe once past 6 months in the UK are all meant to be re-registered. If the people owning them are actually working in the UK then the registration becomes automatic & immediate, same as it would here.


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## DunWorkin (Sep 2, 2010)

You say you have looked at rental prices in Spain and they seem quite reasonable.

Have you been looking at long term rentals (with a minimum of about a year) or rentals for 6 months? 

You may experience problems finding a 6 month rental, particularly in summer, as most landlords prefer short holiday rentals which are much more expensive.

Also, if you do find a 6 month let, how are you going to show you are a tourist? How will you pay your utility bills?

You may be able to do what you are suggesting by staying in hotels but that would be a very expensive option.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Lolito said:


> I've been reading this thread with interest and wondered why people felt the need to reply to this person.
> 
> He has been pretty insulting with his comments.
> 
> ...


He lives in Kings Lynn. All can be forgiven. 

We had a business in East Anglia, probably larger than this silly know-all. There is a flourishing black economy there just as there is in the rest of the UK. We took no part in it, most did.

If Spain had intelligence tests for those wishing to reside here many of that sort would be turned back at the borders. Greece is desperate so that could indeed be the best destination


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

promethian said:


> Sorry but your reply needs a further response.
> 
> Spain is officially recognized as having one of the largest Black economies in Europe.
> 
> ...



Maybe I haven't noticed because I deal with honest people.
Perhaps you don't.


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## Lolito (Aug 25, 2012)

Well travelled business man? He sounds more like a chav & benefit scrounger... lol!


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

before this gets any more personal & half the posters end up with infractions........


:closed_2:


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