# Cutting in Line



## eastwind (Jun 18, 2016)

Just got back from INM and I am still stressed from the experience. I don't know why it is so stressful for me, but the way people handle the queue there just really bugs me. 

There is always a long line to talk to the person who sits under the "information" sign. There is room for about 4 people to stand in line immediately in front of the desk, then the line runs into the door which has to be kept unblocked because people are constantly going in and out to get in other lines. On the other side of the door there are seats, and there's an established pattern as to which seat is "next" and so on, and people generally sit in these seats and slide or move to the next row when the line moves up. When those seats are full, the security guard forces additional people to wait outside and the line goes across the courtyard.

The problem is the guard doesn't stand at the door all the time, he wanders around. People cut into the line by walking up and going in and standing at the end of the 4 people lining up in front of the desk. Or sometimes they go inside and wander around inside until the line moves up and then sit down in one of the designated seats and cut into the line that way.

Today I was waiting outside and there was a Mexican woman at the head of the outside part of the line who stood at the door for literally half an hour letting people in but not going in herself and blocking everyone lined up behind her. Some of those people she let in were going in to use the toilet, some were going in to get in other lines, some where just going out and back in, and some were doing a little of all of that in order to hide the fact that they were cutting in line. The line did not move one person for over half an hour. 

Some people will be quite sharp to tell people ahead of them that they are cutting in line and where the back of the line is, what I find stressful is when somebody up at the front simply isn't paying attention and lets others cut in line.

The guard will generally prevent people from cutting when he notices it, except when he facilitates it. All you have to do is bring along someone else's child or be pregnant and you get to skip to the front of the line. While that offends my sense of equality and equal rights, I can accept it as being a remnant of a backward chauvanist male-dominated culture. But there were probably 15-20% of the people going through the line that didn't wait in the whole line, and that bugs me.

Eventually I got to the front and got "serviced", and it took all day as expected, so I guess I should just accept that the system worked. Sort of.

Are all INM offices this chaotic?


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

eastwind said:


> …
> 
> Are all INM offices this chaotic?


No. 

In Guadalajara they give you a number on a slip of paper. At least that is the way it worked last time I had to go there. That was several years ago, before I got a permanent visa and before I became a citizen.


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## AlanMexicali (Jun 1, 2011)

No. Here you get to the info. desk and get a yellow or orange plastic coated card with a number on it and sign the sign in register. The yellow means you are there for the first time and the orange means you have started the "tramite" and are back to continue by showing the guard your NUT form. Not one person cuts into line and the private security guard doesn´t leave the info. desk. There are 2 INM clecks, one for yellow and one for orange.

As a side note when at the IMSS, ISSSTE or Seguro Popular to see a specialist by myself or helping people - wife´s older relatives, friends etc. I/we always ask who is last person to arrive? Then I/we know we are next no matter where we sit to wait and keep an eye out for the person in front of us. If someone tries to cut in front of someone else there is usaually a big scene and the cutter in is told to shove off, but politely.


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## joaquinx (Jul 3, 2010)

The highest number of applicants that I've seen in our office here has been no more that six or even seven. Often it's one or two, but then we are not in a high density ****** area. 

Was this a grino woman guarding the door? And you just sucked up your courage and let this happen? Tsk, tsk.


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## eastwind (Jun 18, 2016)

This was at the Cancun office. It's a real zoo. When I arrived today there were perhaps 20 people in line outside, and the line inside for information has room for about 20 people seated and a couple standing up. Plus there is room for another 20-30 people there for other lines than "information".

The hesitant woman who seemed to need an invitation to go inside was exactly 10 people ahead of me in line, and was not a ******. If I had been closer to her in line I certainly would have given her some encouragement. 

It took somewhere between an hour and a half to two hours to get through the whole line and get my two minutes at the front of it.


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## horseshoe846 (Feb 8, 2017)

eastwind said:


> This was at the Cancun office. It's a real zoo. When I arrived today there were perhaps 20 people in line outside, and the line inside for information has room for about 20 people seated and a couple standing up. Plus there is room for another 20-30 people there for other lines than "information".
> 
> The hesitant woman who seemed to need an invitation to go inside was exactly 10 people ahead of me in line, and was not a ******. If I had been closer to her in line I certainly would have given her some encouragement.
> 
> It took somewhere between an hour and a half to two hours to get through the whole line and get my two minutes at the front of it.


But - last I read - you were concerned about the crime in Cancun and were considering returning to the US, That and you had problems negotiating your rental fee...


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## chicois8 (Aug 8, 2009)

Puerto Vallarta has the take a number system......

Joaquinx, what is a grino woman? just a misprint? meant to write ******?


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## eastwind (Jun 18, 2016)

I am concerned about the murder rate in Cancun, but so far it has not extended to tourists/gringos with the exception of a rare kidnapping. I didn't have a place lined up to go to back in the US and the rental was renegotiated for what I had hoped so I've signed the lease for another year and we'll see.

If I had gone back to the US I'd likely be somewhere in Texas suffering from Harvey! I was going to look along the Texas coast for a place.


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## joaquinx (Jul 3, 2010)

chicois8 said:


> Puerto Vallarta has the take a number system......
> 
> Joaquinx, what is a grino woman? just a misprint? meant to write ******?


I would like to blame this on my computer, but the truth is, I had just wash my hands and I couldn't do anything with them. It is ******, but should we be concerned with grinos, too?


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## eastwind (Jun 18, 2016)

The Grinos are the worst, they just stand there in line smiling and don't go in the door.


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## RVGRINGO (May 16, 2007)

When an INM agent has sent your to get another copy, or to go to the bank to pay and return, you usually are told to come right back in; not to get back in line. Yes, to a new arrival, or one now aware of that detail, it would look like a line-jumper. It is also common for those of “tercer edad“ to go to the head of any line in Mexico.


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## horseshoe846 (Feb 8, 2017)

RVGRINGO said:


> When an INM agent has sent your to get another copy, or to go to the bank to pay and return, you usually are told to come right back in; not to get back in line. Yes, to a new arrival, or one now aware of that detail, it would look like a line-jumper. It is also common for those of “tercer edad“ to go to the head of any line in Mexico.


The same is true every year we renew our IMSS insurance. We go to a particular window - do our business - run to the bank to pay - and then return to the same window to re-enter the process...


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## eastwind (Jun 18, 2016)

RVGRINGO said:


> When an INM agent has sent your to get another copy, or to go to the bank to pay and return, you usually are told to come right back in; not to get back in line. Yes, to a new arrival, or one now aware of that detail, it would look like a line-jumper. It is also common for those of “tercer edad“ to go to the head of any line in Mexico.


I understood that some of the people heading in were not line jumping, since I've been all the way through the process a year ago. A lot of the in/out traffic was definitely people headed across the street to the internet cafe to get copies or pictures or whatever, but those are people who have already been through the information line, filled out a tramite, and gotten started. When they come back in they will be going back to see one of the other (6 to 8 or so) agents that handle people with appointments, (nearly) complete paperwork, etc.


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## eastwind (Jun 18, 2016)

Well, anyway, it's good to know that the chaos at this one INM office is not typical and that line cutting is also typically handled gracefully and effectively.


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## ElPocho (Aug 25, 2017)

that's when you cut in front of the line right in front of the lady. If she says something you say she owes you 2-3 people... 

that or you speak up when it's happening.


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## perropedorro (Mar 19, 2016)

eastwind said:


> Are all INM offices this chaotic?


No, at least it isn't in Manzanillo. Probably a lot smaller too and not as busy with retired expats. Mostly working foreigners with business connected to the seaport. They write your name down, you wait in one of the 25 or so chairs (never seen the place even half full), and somebody calls you. I was in and out for an RT in less than an hour.


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## Zorro2017 (Jan 9, 2017)

I haven't experienced cutting in line but if you pull up to a red light and leave any amount of space to the side, someone will squeeze their car into it even if you have your blinker on indicating a turn. I am currently driving a full size Toyota Tundra and these streets are not made for such a truck nor are the parking lots so I leave a little room for the turn as my wife hates it when the back tire hops a curb. I honestly don't know how they drive the bus around like they do but they will not wait. If the road only has one lane due to cars parked on both sides and they see you coming they will still pull forward making it almost impossible to get around them. I'll never understand how such a laid back people turn into such crazed speed demons once they get behind the wheel.


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

Zorro2017 said:


> I haven't experienced cutting in line but if you pull up to a red light and leave any amount of space to the side, someone will squeeze their car into it even if you have your blinker on indicating a turn. I am currently driving a full size Toyota Tundra and these streets are not made for such a truck nor are the parking lots so I leave a little room for the turn as my wife hates it when the back tire hops a curb. I honestly don't know how they drive the bus around like they do but they will not wait. If the road only has one lane due to cars parked on both sides and they see you coming they will still pull forward making it almost impossible to get around them. I'll never understand how such a laid back people turn into such crazed speed demons once they get behind the wheel.


I don't think of Mexicans as being particularly laid back, but cultural norms tend to keep negative words and thoughts under cover. Perhaps when they get behind the wheel, they give themselves permission to release all of the demons they've been keeping hidden.


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## Zorro2017 (Jan 9, 2017)

Isla Verde said:


> I don't think of Mexicans as being particularly laid back, but cultural norms tend to keep negative words and thoughts under cover. Perhaps when they get behind the wheel, they give themselves permission to release all of the demons they've been keeping hidden.


Maybe so, I was referring to the slow pace of life otherwise. "Manana" means "Any day except today."


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

Zorro2017 said:


> Maybe so, I was referring to the slow pace of life otherwise. "Manana" means "Any day except today."


Slow pace of life, you say? Not in Mexico City, at any rate.


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## Zorro2017 (Jan 9, 2017)

Isla Verde said:


> Slow pace of life, you say? Not in Mexico City, at any rate.


I know, I tell people "You can't scare me, I've driven in Mexico City!"


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## horseshoe846 (Feb 8, 2017)

Isla Verde said:


> Slow pace of life, you say? Not in Mexico City, at any rate.


We left Mexico City(for Taxqenua) early this morning. The taxi driver we met up with at the angel was certainly one of the most aggressive we have ever had. I normally do not put on my seat belt when in a taxi - but today I did. I made the comment - me gusta vida. I asked him if he was in training for the Mexican Gran Prix. 

What was interesting (to me at least) was that he had spent years in Chicago. Then when we got to our home town we got in another taxi - and where was he from ? - Chicago.


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

horseshoe846 said:


> We left Mexico City(for Taxqenua) early this morning. The taxi driver we met up with at the angel was certainly one of the most aggressive we have ever had. I normally do not put on my seat belt when in a taxi - but today I did. I made the comment - me gusta vida. I asked him if he was in training for the Mexican Gran Prix.
> 
> What was interesting (to me at least) was that he had spent years in Chicago. Then when we got to our home town we got in another taxi - and where was he from ? - Chicago.


This is not surprising to me - there has been a huge Mexican community in Chicago for many years.


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## horseshoe846 (Feb 8, 2017)

Isla Verde said:


> This is not surprising to me - there has been a huge Mexican community in Chicago for many years.


Then I hope it is a 'sanctuary city'... (Hopefully that comment does not turn this into a sanctioned thread). And I am certainly not placing blame anywhere


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## Zorro2017 (Jan 9, 2017)

horseshoe846 said:


> Then I hope it is a 'sanctuary city'... (Hopefully that comment does not turn this into a sanctioned thread). And I am certainly not placing blame anywhere


My wife is Mexican Horseshoe. eace:


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## perropedorro (Mar 19, 2016)

Isla Verde said:


> This is not surprising to me - there has been a huge Mexican community in Chicago for many years.


La Villa. Sorta like L.A.'s _EastLos_, except it doesn't predate the city itself. But, like in any large (along with small) U.S. cities, both have expanded far beyond Mexican immigrants' traditional barrio.


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## ElPocho (Aug 25, 2017)

Zorro2017 said:


> I know, I tell people "You can't scare me, I've driven in Mexico City!"


My wife always got on my case about my driving. I learned to drive in CDMX. Went we went there and rented a car she understood.
If you can drive in CDMX you can drive anywhere. I would break into a cold sweat at once least a day driving in CDMX when I lived there.


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## Zorro2017 (Jan 9, 2017)

When we were leaving Mexico City the traffic on the highway was so bad a girl was selling loosies on the center line. The cops ahead of us bought one.


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## Anonimo (Apr 8, 2012)

Zorro2017 said:


> When we were leaving Mexico City the traffic on the highway was so bad a girl was selling loosies on the center line. The cops ahead of us bought one.


What are "loosies"?


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## Zorro2017 (Jan 9, 2017)

Anonimo said:


> What are "loosies"?


Single cigarettes.


Loosie

A loose cigarette or "loosie" is a single cigarette purchased at the store for usually between 10 cents to a quarter.


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

Zorro2017 said:


> Single cigarettes.
> 
> 
> Loosie
> ...


Is that 10 cents usd? I just heard recently that cigarettes go for $13 usd/pack in New York now. That is 65 cents each. Maybe cigarette smuggling will replace marijuana smuggling.


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## Zorro2017 (Jan 9, 2017)

TundraGreen said:


> Is that 10 cents usd? I just heard recently that cigarettes go for $13 usd/pack in New York now. That is 65 cents each. Maybe cigarette smuggling will replace marijuana smuggling.


I quit smoking almost 2 years ago while I was here, but in the states my wife and I combined smoking was one of our biggest expenses. I can't imagine $13.00 a pack. Even here you can easily spend over $200.00 a month.


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## horseshoe846 (Feb 8, 2017)

I started smoking at about the age of 15 or so. At one point I smoked close to two packs a day of Marlboro's. I quit about 33 years ago when a pack went for maybe 50 or 60 cents. I don't know that I ever bought a carton myself (I did receive some as gifts from time to time) - because I often thought that THIS pack is my last. I tried those organizations etc to quit but in the end - I took a new job which put me in a situation where I was very challenged and I simply could not afford the time to go outside the building to have a smoke. But I have worked for organizations where the powers that be all smoked and they spent the better part of the day standing outside smoking and having 'meetings'. In a way it was a great way to advance (smoking with the bosses).


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## Zorro2017 (Jan 9, 2017)

I smoked for 48 years but to a smoker, the world is his ashtray, just flip them everywhere. A smoker will smoke when they don't need to just because they know they aren't going to be able to smoke for a while, like "We are going into the movies theater, can't smoke for over an hour, better smoke 2."


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## horseshoe846 (Feb 8, 2017)

I smoked for perhaps 15 years. I used to get up in the middle of the night trying to find someplace like a bar to buy cigarettes if I ran out.. I remember when I was perhaps 20 or so - a friend and I put some surfboards on the roof of the car and drove to Florida. In Delaware we got pulled over and the cop profiled us as druggies because there were perhaps 20 or so empty packs of cigarettes on the floor in the back. The cops tore the car apart looking for drugs. 

I guess what saved me is that even though I smoked I was very athletic. Football in HS, Rugby in college and all the way I could still run a mile in under 6 minutes. Still - at some point within the last 5 years some doctor somewhere was looking at my chest xray and asked if I ever smoked. When I said yes - he said I see some scarring.


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## eastwind (Jun 18, 2016)

TundraGreen said:


> Is that 10 cents usd? I just heard recently that cigarettes go for $13 usd/pack in New York now. That is 65 cents each. Maybe cigarette smuggling will replace marijuana smuggling.


Even though I'm not a smoker (I even had to look up the number of packs in a carton and cigarettes in a pack), I'm always curious about the economics of things like this. 
So I did a little searching and found this old article from the NY Times about loosie sellers.

It was written back in 2011 when the cost was $12.50 a pack (62.5 cents per cigarette), and it says that the price of loosies then (in NYC) was 2 for US$1. They are smuggled from Virginia and the loosie seller is buying them for $50/carton from the smuggler, and also selling the full packs for $8 each. It doesn't say what the cost to the smuggler in Va was, but presumably less than $50/carton.

So the end customer is getting a discount over the retail cost, which was what I was wondering - whether the loosie sellers were passing on part of the savings from smuggling or charging a premium for convenience.


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## Zorro2017 (Jan 9, 2017)

People in Texas were driving to Louisiana to avoid the state tax levied against cigarettes, saving a lot of money. I remember driving through Kentucky where they grew tobacco and buying them pretty cheap at one time. 

Nicotine is in my opinion by far the most addictive substance on the face of the earth. Even after 2 years at times I still want one, but it is not overwhelming like it was.


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## horseshoe846 (Feb 8, 2017)

Zorro2017 said:


> People in Texas were driving to Louisiana to avoid the state tax levied against cigarettes, saving a lot of money. I remember driving through Kentucky where they grew tobacco and buying them pretty cheap at one time.
> 
> Nicotine is in my opinion by far the most addictive substance on the face of the earth. Even after 2 years at times I still want one, but it is not overwhelming like it was.


For me - when I tried cutting out caffeine cold turkey it was far far worse than nicotine. I literally spent a day in bed curled up in a fetal position. It was like the worst migraine headache I have ever had.


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## Anonimo (Apr 8, 2012)

What happened to the original topic, which, I believe, was "Cutting In Line"?


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## Zorro2017 (Jan 9, 2017)

Anonimo said:


> What happened to the original topic, which, I believe, was "Cutting In Line"?


It was answered.


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