# 2 Americans Considering Dubai



## reamund11 (Nov 14, 2011)

My husband is an emergency medicine doctor whose employer has offered him a 3-year contract and a substantial salary in Dubai; however, I have some reservations about limited rights/freedoms for women in the UAE. I was wondering if any of the women in this forum might be able to shed some light on my biggest concerns, outlined below. (For the record: if if makes any difference, we're both Americans, but I'm very pale-skinned and have blonde hair and blue eyes; his father is originally from Pakistan, so my husband's got a darker complexion and a more Middle Eastern-sounding first and last name, though he was raised in an agnostic household that didn't follow any of the rules of Islam.)

1. Crime and Safety

Human Rights Watch has several articles on their website that suggest that women in the UAE who're raped are jailed for reporting their crimes. Specifically, I'm thinking about an Australian woman working at a hotel in either Dubai or Abu Dhabi who was drugged, gang raped, and then jailed for 6 months for having "sex outside of marriage" when she reported it to the police. Is this a common "punishment" for reporting crimes against women? 

Additionally, my husband is insistent that (if we move) I need to dye my hair brown so I don't stand out as much. Does anyone think this is a good idea?

2. Starting a Family

If we choose to make the move, we'll be locked into living in the UAE for at least 3 years. We want to have children, and I don't want to put it off, but I also want to make sure that A.) there's adequate ob/gyn care and B.) being pregnant in public is "ok" (meaning I could run errands by myself with a big ol' belly).

3. Making Friends

I can't imagine staying in by myself all day every day while my husband works the crazy hours required of emergency medicine. How easy is it to make friends in the UAE? Are there groups of western women who meet up to commiserate on life in another country, or make play dates for the kids? Or are people so spread out that they keep mostly to themselves? 

Thanks, everyone. Those are my biggest concerns right now - knowing more about how ex-pats who've already made the plunge and are living there feel about these issues would help us make a more informed decision.


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## sezley (Oct 22, 2011)

reamund11 said:


> My husband is an emergency medicine doctor whose employer has offered him a 3-year contract and a substantial salary in Dubai; however, I have some reservations about limited rights/freedoms for women in the UAE. I was wondering if any of the women in this forum might be able to shed some light on my biggest concerns, outlined below. (For the record: if if makes any difference, we're both Americans, but I'm very pale-skinned and have blonde hair and blue eyes; his father is originally from Pakistan, so my husband's got a darker complexion and a more Middle Eastern-sounding first and last name, though he was raised in an agnostic household that didn't follow any of the rules of Islam.)
> 
> 1. Crime and Safety
> 
> ...


You do not have to dye your hair Dubai is multi cultural, we drive, great expat life, great restaurants, being pregnant is not a problem locals love children, is a large American community and a very good American school. Lots of gyms.


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## pamela0810 (Apr 5, 2010)

reamund11 said:


> My husband is an emergency medicine doctor whose employer has offered him a 3-year contract and a substantial salary in Dubai; however, I have some reservations about limited rights/freedoms for women in the UAE. I was wondering if any of the women in this forum might be able to shed some light on my biggest concerns, outlined below. (For the record: if if makes any difference, we're both Americans, but I'm very pale-skinned and have blonde hair and blue eyes; his father is originally from Pakistan, so my husband's got a darker complexion and a more Middle Eastern-sounding first and last name, though he was raised in an agnostic household that didn't follow any of the rules of Islam.)
> 
> 1. Crime and Safety
> 
> ...


Answers in blue. You really need to research this place a little more than just reading what the Human Rights Society has published. A first hand experience works much better.


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## Tropicana (Apr 29, 2010)

I dont think the OP made a mistake in checking HRW. Yes they are biased, but they are so for every country, they bring the worst cases to light. The incident mentioned did happen, and newcomers should be aware of how things can go wrong.

The good side is that the chances of things going wrong are very less in Dubai as the crime rate is low, but when they do go wrong, it may not be pretty


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## pamela0810 (Apr 5, 2010)

That may be true Tropicana but you cannot base your opinion about an entire city or country simply because you read the worst of it all. I am not a big fan of Dubai but I wouldn't judge it based on one perspective only. The very fact that the OP asked if being pregnant in public is OK means that they need to be educated on this place a lot more before making the big leap.


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## reamund11 (Nov 14, 2011)

pamela0810 said:


> Answers in blue. You really need to research this place a little more than just reading what the Human Rights Society has published. A first hand experience works much better.


I am researching more, as evidenced by my joining this forum. 

I want to get a more rounded-out picture of life in Dubai beyond what I've already read (and continue to read). But - and surely you can understand - even just 1 story of a woman being punished for reporting a sexual assault is enough to make me take pause (and there has been more than 1 story of this happening in UAE).


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## reamund11 (Nov 14, 2011)

pamela0810 said:


> That may be true Tropicana but you cannot base your opinion about an entire city or country simply because you read the worst of it all. I am not a big fan of Dubai but I wouldn't judge it based on one perspective only. The very fact that the OP asked if being pregnant in public is OK means that they need to be educated on this place a lot more before making the big leap.


Again: I _am_ trying to learn more, hence my presence here (plus the months I've been reading this site before signing up and posting myself).

My husband's father grew up in a strict Muslim home and has told me stories about the women in his family having to modify their routines during pregnancy in ways that are not out of line with what I posted. Hence, my question about pregnancy. However, I have no idea if this was just the people in his family, or if it was regional, or if what he told me is completely off base. 

I'm just trying to understand what the UAE/Dubai is like today so we can make an informed decision when the time comes. That's all. If my questions sound stupid and I've offended anyone for it, I apologize.


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## reamund11 (Nov 14, 2011)

sezley said:


> You do not have to dye your hair Dubai is multi cultural, we drive, great expat life, great restaurants, being pregnant is not a problem locals love children, is a large American community and a very good American school. Lots of gyms.


Thanks for the quick and kind reply! Very helpful!


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## Jumeirah Jim (Jan 24, 2011)

reamund11 said:


> Thanks for the quick and kind reply! Very helpful!


No offence but it sounds like you have a very hazy idea of how life is in Dubai. As others have said your concerns are not anything to worry about. 

I think the only way you can really make a decision as to whether you want to move here for 3 years is to visit. A few days here, spending some time away from the 5* beach hotels/tourist hang outs, seeing where expats life/shop/socialise etc would enable you to make an informed decision.

Yes you can do online research and read about expat life on sites like this but that really isn't a substitute for a recce. Have you ask your husband's employer to arrange a visit for you?


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## Tropicana (Apr 29, 2010)

pamela0810 said:


> That may be true Tropicana but you cannot base your opinion about an entire city or country simply because you read the worst of it all.


Its often the worst incidents that tell you more about a place than the dozens of "its all so great" experiences.
A somewhat unrelated example: when booking a hotel, i dont just read the +reviews, rather i go and search the negative reviews and see if there is a pattern...


The OP is definitely uninformed about Dubai but she does seem to ask us whether such cases are the norm, rather than make blanket statements like "Why does Dubai treat women like this etc.'

I will just repeat what other postsers said and recommend a visit of at least 5-6 days to see Dubai .


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## Lita_Rulez (Nov 4, 2010)

reamund11 said:


> My husband is an emergency medicine doctor whose employer has offered him a 3-year contract and a substantial salary in Dubai; however, I have some reservations about limited rights/freedoms for women in the UAE. I was wondering if any of the women in this forum might be able to shed some light on my biggest concerns, outlined below.



As everyone said, the items you list are not cause for concern.


1. Crime and Safety

Dubai is still one of the safest cities in the world. I've told this story a thousand times, but it is still symptomatic for me of the life here : in a crowded bar, with a dozen friends we were occupying 80% of a huge corner table. There were two guys occupying the end of the table, and a couple of us had to stand, we'd do the usual bar stuff and take turns sitting / standing. At one point, the guys left the table to go... wherever they went. Since they were coming back, and didn't want us to move in, they left their wallet and black berry on the table.
I have lost my wallet in Mall of the Emirates, full of cash( I had just been paid for 3 months T&E in cash). Realized it when I got home 2 hours later. Drove back, it had been found and brought to security, untouched.
Some people leave their car running (for the AC) on the parking when they walk into a convenience store. And the car is still there when they leisurely walk out 30 minutes later.
That's how safe the city is. Where else would you see that. Back home ? I would never (though I do have to work at not doing it when I am on holidays there. You forget it's not that easy everywhere).
Are there crimes committed ? Of course it happens. You've read some of the cases on HRW, some more classic forms you will not find them (like burglary and such) but it is the exception, not the norm.
Yes, in the rare cases when there actually is a problem, the law does not necessarily help on the woman's side. 
But, for the few stories you have read collected over the last couple of years in the UAE, bear in mind that in the US, there is a rape *every 3 minutes*.


2. Starting a Family

Many of us have done so, and it is a great place to start a family. Great ob/gyn (you can find European or anglo-saxon training as you please), great facilities for delivery, not crazy about pediatricians so far, but that's personal , great mid-wives though they are outside the traditional hospital system so you need to actively look for one (important and not often mentioned), and being pregnant in public is not a problem at all, quite the contrary.

There are also lots of advantages after delivery as well.
The biggest one, quite frankly, is the assistance you can get.
Back home, I could not afford to have a full time nanny. They would also argue that it's their job to take care of the kid, not clean or cook (as in cook for the baby) or take care of the cats (as in poor food and water in their bowl twice a day, clean the litter once), and the hours, and the this, and the that, it would mean staying home longer, it would mean finding a daycare center, then someone to pick them up, etc.
Here, we have found a great nanny, who is at home from 7:30 AM to 7:30 PM, takes good care of our daughter, loves her (truly does, she calls during her holidays to see how the baby's doing) , and as a bonus, also does our cleaning and laundry.
That, is a luxury I appreciate every day and will sorely miss when we go back home.

As for beeing pregnant in public, I have never had so much passing exchanges with locals then since my wife was pregnant (and the delivery made things even nicer).
You know, just a knowing smile or a kind wave goes a long way to make you feel good when you pass a family with 2 or 3 kids in tow and you are pregnant.
Then during the first year, it was the other way around. Many a time, a couple of locals would be walking by, and when they would see our baby, the pregnant woman would come and wave at the baby, ask if she could hold her, and the man would always smile. 
Not exactly the stuff HRW articles are made of.


3. Making Friends

It's the same as everywhere else in the world : it all depends on your activities.
If you stay at home, you won't make friends. If you go out and practice a sport, or actively get involved in a hobby, or take classes of something, you'll meet people who are interested in at least one thing you have in common and things will just follow their natural course.
The big difference will lie in the type of people you meet in the various activities. If you stick to golf, you probably won't meet a majority of labourers, if you stick to cricket events, you'll be surrounded by britts and sub-continent people, if you stick to Salsa, you'll meet people from all around (guess what my choice is  )



All in all, honestly, I would definitely not peg Dubai as a bad place to live in. It's safe, the weather is good, we can bring our daughter to the beach and the park every weekend, there are loads of nice places to eat, you just have to be conscious of the limitations of the place :

- It is still a muslim country, though most of the time it does not feel like it. Don't get stone drunk in public, don't be to affectionate in public (holding hands is OK for married couples), don't dress inappropriately, don't insult people or give them the finger while driving, don't do drugs, don't even think about drugs, and you should be fine.

- Don't expect people to drive properly, they have no sense of what basic common sense is. It's not turkey or Saudi, but it's not a great place to drive either (and I come from Paris...)

- Remember that you are a guest here, and you are not meant to stay indefinitely. Don't bring in all your assets, and don't block the ones you will create here inland. If you get into an argument with a local, you will most likely be wrong every time, and good luck in getting anything out of the country then.

- Get all your affairs in order as far as last will and testament goes. If anything were to happen to your husband while here, all assets will be frozen to be passed on the the first male heir, you will not be able to touch any of it. Having all organized, notarized and registered here could save a lot of trouble. (wonderful case of do as I say, not as I do, but still worth putting out there).



.
..
...



Now, as far as dying your hair before coming, I believe it is hard to say without a frame of reference. Send me a couple of nude pictures, and I'll give you a proper opinion based on facts, not on supposition of what you might look like :eyebrows:


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## Lita_Rulez (Nov 4, 2010)

Tropicana said:


> Its often the worst incidents that tell you more about a place than the dozens of "its all so great" experiences.



The problem is that most people do what you say : check the worst of a place to know what they might risk. They just usually forget to check what the worst about the place where they live is.
If you are going to be comparing home and potential future home, compare like to like, not the comfortable idea you have of where you live, and the bad reports of where you are considering living.

I don't think Pamy meant anything else with her initial comment.


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## Tropicana (Apr 29, 2010)

Lita_Rulez said:


> Some people leave their car running (for the AC) on the parking when they walk into a convenience store. And the car is still there when they leisurely walk out 30 minutes later.
> That's how safe the city is. Where else would you see that.


Many people keep their cars running and some lose their cars as well this way. In some cases and places, locked cars are broken into.


I myself had had a a wallet stolen when it was in a table next to me (my mistake), so yes, Dubai is relatively safe but the "you can keep your doors unlocked/cars running" stuff is true half the time and wrong the other half...
Where Dubai and Abu Dhabi/Al Ain shine wrt crime is the relative absence of muggings/kidnappings. Softer crimes like pickpocketing and breaking into cars unfortunately do occur a bit more


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## ccr (Jun 20, 2010)

I second everything that Lita Rulez wrote.

*Crime:*

Just an example, we had an opportunity to move to KL earlier this year, found a great villa there but was warned that we would need security guards around the clock since it was in a quiet neighborhood and kidnapping was known to happen. Quite a contrast from Dubai where we don't lock the door all day except when going to bed.

We came from a city in the US where most people have access to concealed weapons (car / person) and definitely in their homes.

*Family:*

Can't say anything personally about pregnancy, but we moved to UAE when our son was 6-month old. And everytime we were in the Mall, people constantly coming to play with him. A few times, unknown local women just pick him up without asking us - which is unheard off where we came from.

Lots of friends had babies in UAE, and never heard a bad story.

*Friends:*

Made / making lots of friends in UAE who come from all over the world, and all walks of life. The only negative thing is most are transient friends who do not keep up once separated, but selected few are life-long friends.

With your husband being part-Pakistani (even with American passport), not sure if a plus or minus... It will depend on the individual who he deals with.


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## reamund11 (Nov 14, 2011)

Many thanks to all who've given me some much needed advice!

We're planning a week long visit in the near future, so hopefully that will give us a better picture of the place.

For those of you who've made the move, what do you wish you'd known BEFORE you settled in? What do you wish someone had told you about living in UAE before you moved there?

Many, many thanks!


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## Amal_44 (Nov 15, 2011)

I am German but have an American father, US citizenship, lived there for 15 years. I have blonde hair and blue eyes, and would never consider dyeing it, nor did my husband ever ask me to, and he is Arab. We lived in Dubai for a few months only in 2009 but we are going back in a month (we live in Doha now). It is safe and clean, no worries. And there are pregnant women and plenty of facilities, much better then other places I've been in the Middle East including here. When I went to the ER in Dubai my husband could be with me, and not in Doha at all which brought me intense tears. Anyway, the US portrays all of the Middle East in a negative light in my opinion, and you will probably be surprised how different it is than you think. But dyeing hair and worrying about pregnancy sounds like more of a personal issue rather than cultural, at least not here anyway.


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## laurb85 (Nov 16, 2011)

reamund11 said:


> My husband is an emergency medicine doctor whose employer has offered him a 3-year contract and a substantial salary in Dubai; however, I have some reservations about limited rights/freedoms for women in the UAE. I was wondering if any of the women in this forum might be able to shed some light on my biggest concerns, outlined below. (For the record: if if makes any difference, we're both Americans, but I'm very pale-skinned and have blonde hair and blue eyes; his father is originally from Pakistan, so my husband's got a darker complexion and a more Middle Eastern-sounding first and last name, though he was raised in an agnostic household that didn't follow any of the rules of Islam.)
> 
> 1. Crime and Safety
> 
> ...





Okay, firstly the crime issue you mentioned, yes it is true, as they see it that you have had sex end off!! Harsh, unfortunately that is what it is in the uae.

Being blonde and blue eyed - yes you will stand out, but so do I and im brunette with blue eyes.
Honesltly, if you are white, you will get stared at ALOT, but you get used to it. You just need to make sure you respect the culture and don't wear short skirts etc which will draw the unwanted attention.
The local men are very respectful of women over here so i don't worry.
If you use the metro, there is a lady's only part you can use. 
There are special ques for ladys at the supermarkets.

It is a hard place to get used to.

Over here they are baby mad!! I have an 11m old, blue eyed blonde boy and they go nuts. They are so baby friendly it's unture - you do need to make sure you set limits however - not allowing photots to be taken, not allowing them to take them from the puchchair!

There is pleanty of medical care available, but unfortunately, i can't give much advice on it as i gave birth in the Uk before making our move here in may.

There are pleanty of expat meet ups also, so yes it can be easy to make friends. As always, you have to find the people you click with.

There are some fantastic coffee mornings for expecting mums, mums and babies, when that time comes for you.

Sorry for my ramble. I hope some may have helped


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## dbuffin (Nov 16, 2011)

Reamund11
I am an American originally from NY and left CT 1 week ago today to live in Dubai. My husband accepted a position here in July. I had visited Dubai once in 2006 and in September before we decided to go ahead with the move. 

I can give you my opinion on the things you mentioned:
1) Sadly, as you know, it is true. However, my husband and I both realize if you keep your nose to the ground and not put oneself in situations, life here can be just fine
2) You do not need to dye your hair brown. Blonds attract attention whenever they are not the norm. Ever been to Central or South America? Same thing.
3) Pregnant in public, not an issue at all and I did not think it was a silly question. All cultures do treat pregnant women different, so your inquiry was valid.
My own thoughts:
Research where you want to live and what is comfortable for you - a villa or an apartment? Do you mind jumping in your car to get groceries or would you prefer to walk to stores, etc?
I do not have small children, but there seem to be plenty of moms getting together for coffee mornings. 
We chose an area to live in that was comfortable for us as a family and our dogs. Being in downtown was not a priority for us as we have dogs. We wanted a pool and space in our yard. We opted for a community that could be considered the "burbs, but we love it.
The status of women can at times be frustrating, but persistence pays off. Most companies, etc only want to deal with whomever is the visa sponsor for the family, which in most cases, is the husband. I've learned that everything can and will get done, it just takes patience and a lot of time. Things that you take for granted are a little harder to accomplish, but all can get done.
As for the healthcare, it is topnotch. There is an American Hospital that is JCHO international accredited. Sadly, we know from 1st hand experience as my 17yr old stepson was admitted to ICU last week. Getting an ambulance to arrive at our villa was another story, so my husband drove him.

Visit before if you can, 3 years will either go by quickly or it will drag on and on and on if you are not happy. There is plenty to keep you busy, if you are interested - cooking classes, Arabic lessons, etc.


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## fcjb1970 (Apr 30, 2010)

reamund11 said:


> For those of you who've made the move, what do you wish you'd known BEFORE you settled in? What do you wish someone had told you about living in UAE before you moved there?


The concept of not having street addresses, although being told is one thing actually comprehending it is another matter.


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## ccr (Jun 20, 2010)

fcjb1970 said:


> The concept of not having street addresses, although being told is one thing actually comprehending it is another matter.


There is street address, just not as similar to what you are used to in the US.


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## pamela0810 (Apr 5, 2010)

Most of the streets unfortunately are named after AL 

(Reminds me of that Paul Simon song!)


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## Tropicana (Apr 29, 2010)

ccr said:


> There is street address, just not as similar to what you are used to in the US.


But no one seems to use that street address. 

Btw is it just me or do most "professional" drivers here have little "positional awareness"?

So many people dont know that Jebel Ali is to the south of Dubai or that Jumeirah is to the west of SZR.


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## ccr (Jun 20, 2010)

pamela0810 said:


> Most of the streets unfortunately are named after AL


Only as frequent as Egyptians named "Mohamed" 

I never had to worry about remember names in Cairo, 90% of the time I am right. And if the first name isn't correct, it will still match one of remaining part of his name.


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## ccr (Jun 20, 2010)

Tropicana said:


> ... that Jumeirah is to the west of SZR.


Sorry, but which "Jumeirah" ?

I know a couple of "Jumeirah" *east *of SZR...


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## Tropicana (Apr 29, 2010)

ccr said:


> Sorry, but which "Jumeirah" ?
> 
> I know a couple of "Jumeirah" *east *of SZR...


The actual Jumeira area of Dubai and there is only one of it.

The other "Jumeiras" dont refer to the area, rather something more of a brand.

I live in JLT, and whenever i dealt with the police for my car, they always called it and wrote it as "Lakes Towers"


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## Amal_44 (Nov 15, 2011)

yeah I didnt even know until we got an apartment, I was like, what is the address so my family can send me a letter or a package. they didnt even understand the concept of address. same thing when we go to visit a friend or try to go basically anywhere, its like this... go straight, one light past the burger king, the second roundabout turn, the building with the red car in front, etc lol!!


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## ccr (Jun 20, 2010)

To add to the confusion...

In Abu Dhabi, a lot of the main streets got "nicknames" as well as their "AL" names: "Electra street", "Airport road", etc.

When I first arrived to AD, it was always confusing to tell the taxi drivers where to go without knowing the nicknames.

AFAIK, this is not a problem in Dubai...


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## AngelOfTheNorth (Nov 17, 2011)

While we're on the subject of women in Dubai, I have a couple of questions too. I'm new, and have had a look around already, but please don't flame me if I'm being very very stupid!

Bit of background- husband and I are potentially interested in moving over for a couple of years. Not a permanent thing, but to give us chance to live abroad and also we thought it might be a good opportunity to save up for a deposit for a property at home in the UK. I'm a solicitor, so obviously would be looking for that line of work. Although would consider legal secretarial/related fields if the position and pay were right. I've looked at various adverts, and couldn't help noticing that a lot of the lawyer adverts referred to the prospective candidate as 'he'. Also that the legal secetary vacancies tended to refer to the prospective candidate as 'she'. I've looked this up, and found examples of professional women working in Dubai, so it's obviously allowed. But is it a lot more difficult for a woman than a man to get work there? I'm not wasting my time am I?

Also, is it true I wouldn't be able to sponsor my husband? I read that only very senior women expat workers are usually able to do that. We're in our 20s, so while I have professional experience, I'm not exactly head of department material yet.

Lastly, we weren't necessarily thinking of coming out for a visit first, given the cost and the fact that we wouldn't be planning on a permanent move. Is this stupid?


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## AngelOfTheNorth (Nov 17, 2011)

Sorry, one more question- can anyone recommend a reputable legal recruitment agency for Dubai? I've seen lots whilst researching this, but obviously don't have any way of knowing who's reputable.


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## US Expat (Jan 23, 2012)

Reamund11, I moved to Dubai 2 years ago with my wife after being born/raised in Cincinnati (I see you're from Cleveland) so I can give you a good perspective as to what its like for a midwesterner. /SNIP/


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