# Corruption in Us immigration system



## NotHuman (Jul 10, 2009)

Hi

Got loads to say, but you can read it all on my website. I want to give a warning to all those travelling to the US. I also seek help getting back there myself so I can reclaim what few possessions I may have left.

Go to my website and click on the 'My Story' link to see what happened to me.

I'm not the only victim, lots of others are suffering too. Our own Government (Foreign Office) have informed me of numerous and regular meetings with Homeland Security to complain about the unfair and cruel treatment dished out to many British travellers, only for HS to give back the 'middle finger'. HS said it is their country and they can do what they like to the Brits.

Is this a fair way to be treated? Our troops are dying every day to fight an illegal war started by the Americans and yet we get treated like dirt.

I miss my trips to Eugene in Oregon and miss my friends there. I also lost the woman I loved due to being victimised by US immigration. I have lost so much there it is heartbreaking.

Contact me if you have also suffered. Contact me if you can help - attorneys, advice, stories (inc. photos) I can put on my website, political action, etc.


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## Fatbrit (May 8, 2008)

Well that wasted an hour of my life I'll never get back!

I did try to read your story but it went on and on with rants between the facts. Perhaps just a short summary of the facts at the beginning would make reading easier. In what I picked up, I'd say it showed the perils of attempting US immigration without doing your homework but vaguely hoping you'd get away with it. Much of the injury you suffered was, in fact, self-inflicted. But I suppose there's a lesson for all who attempt to navigate the system: don't do it your way!

And even with your extensive rant and obviously many hours putting the web site together, you seem to have little or no idea of how the various parts of the US immigration system work.


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## NotHuman (Jul 10, 2009)

Hi Fatbrit

Yes, I do sound angry on my website and I believe I have every right to be. Not just at the US immigration system, but myself for taking too much for granted.

Self-inflicted problems? Yes, too a degree - for being too honest. Must learn to keep my mouth closed and just tell lies if I try to get back. Seems to work for everyone else.

I did do some homework as well, but got too casual. My intentions were honest enough, but as John Major once said, "they butter no parsnips".

Just a shame that the US rewards and values dishonesty and corruption more than sincerity. But what's new? It's the American Way, so to speak.

As for a shorter version of my story, I am planning short-cut links on the homepage to the nitty-gritty stuff. Cannot make any of the episodes shorter though as I'm only covering the basics as it is.

Thanks for the input though.

You said ...



Fatbrit said:


> Well that wasted an hour of my life I'll never get back!
> 
> I did try to read your story but it went on and on with rants between the facts. Perhaps just a short summary of the facts at the beginning would make reading easier. In what I picked up, I'd say it showed the perils of attempting US immigration without doing your homework but vaguely hoping you'd get away with it. Much of the injury you suffered was, in fact, self-inflicted. But I suppose there's a lesson for all who attempt to navigate the system: don't do it your way!
> 
> And even with your extensive rant and obviously many hours putting the web site together, you seem to have little or no idea of how the various parts of the US immigration system work.


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## Fatbrit (May 8, 2008)

NoHumanityDotCom said:


> Hi Fatbrit
> 
> Yes, I do sound angry on my website and I believe I have every right to be. Not just at the US immigration system, but myself for taking too much for granted.
> 
> ...


No, the problems were caused by you not understanding the US immigration system And the problem is that you still don't understand it. With some understanding and forward planning, you would most probably have been able to live with your wife in the US. 

But since you obviously don't think much of us Americans from what you've just said, perhaps it all worked out best in the end, anyway?


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## Fatbrit (May 8, 2008)

BTW, the lighthouse anecdote on your home page was declared false by Snopes.


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## coolbadger (Sep 17, 2008)

Fatbrit said:


> Well that wasted an hour of my life I'll never get back!
> 
> I did try to read your story but it went on and on with rants between the facts. Perhaps just a short summary of the facts at the beginning would make reading easier. In what I picked up, I'd say it showed the perils of attempting US immigration without doing your homework but vaguely hoping you'd get away with it. Much of the injury you suffered was, in fact, self-inflicted. But I suppose there's a lesson for all who attempt to navigate the system: don't do it your way!
> 
> And even with your extensive rant and obviously many hours putting the web site together, you seem to have little or no idea of how the various parts of the US immigration system work.


I actually liked the idea of using Abraham Lincoln and Martin Luther King as evidence! :boxing:

How dare they ignore such a strong case!

Thanks for the earlier tip about an hour of your life wasted. I cut it short after 5 minutes.


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## NotHuman (Jul 10, 2009)

*More misunderstanding*

I only care for Governments who care for those whom they are supposed to respect (re: roughly quoting former President Jefferson). The US, UK and many other Governments are not always like this. But to answer some of your points (briefly, I promise):

[1] The US immigration system is complex. Different immigration officials interpret immigration laws differently and many I have spoken to give the wrong advice and do not understand their own rules. This is a stone-cold FACT. So how am I to succeed when I have to rely upon the inconsistent opinions and rulings of those who do not know how to do their jobs? And what about arbitary judgements made against me that I cannot appeal?

[2] My wife was an illegal. Now she has remarried for a Green Card. There is no way I could have lived with her in the US. In fact, our own (UK) immigration laws were put the test late last year when a Law Lords ruling would have allowed me to bring my wife to the UK - where we wanted to be all along. I could not bring her to the UK until this powerful legal ruling - but it came too late. The only reason I panicked and tried to reach my wife in September 2008 was because of the threat to my marriage.

[3] I have met numerous American people and made numerous friends. More than in my entire lifetime. I'm not anti-American people, I am anti-American insititulionalised corruption (same with the UK and other Governments too).

[4] Suggest a solution if you can so I can get back, locate and get my last few possessions, and see my friends again. Pro-active advice is better than negative criticism.

Thanks for your continuing interest though.

You said:



Fatbrit said:


> No, the problems were caused by you not understanding the US immigration system And the problem is that you still don't understand it. With some understanding and forward planning, you would most probably have been able to live with your wife in the US.
> 
> But since you obviously don't think much of us Americans from what you've just said, perhaps it all worked out best in the end, anyway?


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## NotHuman (Jul 10, 2009)

*Changes in progress ...*

Hi

Thanks for your contribution. I'm going to put my 'pre-court statement' up on the homepage as the quick version of my story. It focusses more upon the relevant facts - albeit that it will still run to about 11 pages.

Please read my quote from former President Jefferson as well. It's somewhat pertinent.

Just for interest, I once worked for Westland Helicopters. I was a progress chaser for several years and my work is still fresh in my mind - even though it was over 30 years ago. 'Progressed' everything from buying materials to sending finished items to the work floor. Happy (?????) days!

You said:



coolbadger said:


> I actually liked the idea of using Abraham Lincoln and Martin Luther King as evidence! :boxing:
> 
> How dare they ignore such a strong case!
> 
> Thanks for the earlier tip about an hour of your life wasted. I cut it short after 5 minutes.


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## MHolkham (Jan 22, 2009)

*Well Said!!!*



Fatbrit said:


> No, the problems were caused by you not understanding the US immigration system And the problem is that you still don't understand it. With some understanding and forward planning, you would most probably have been able to live with your wife in the US.
> 
> But since you obviously don't think much of us Americans from what you've just said, perhaps it all worked out best in the end, anyway?


I agree for someone who is so down on Americans, they wouldn't like living here anyway


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## NotHuman (Jul 10, 2009)

*Answering / questioning other points:*

I am not criticising Americans collectively, but America as an institution which makes ambiguous laws, does not know how to enforce them, are open to abuse without answerability, and allow widespread discrimination of UK (and no doubt other) tourists. Even many of my full-blooded American friends are embarrassed by what happens in their country.

*Abuse & Ambiguity, Example 1:* Told at San Francisco International airport I was not yet in the US, merely on the 'doorstep'. Despite my FULL co-operation, I was further told I had no human rights, no right to representation, no right to telephone my Embassy or Consulate, and that they could me in a cell and throw away the key.

I was blackmailed into signing a statement containing falsehoods and inaccuracies under the pain of having my wife victimized. I had to sign under duress, and under protest, to protect her.

*Abuse & Ambiguity, Example 2:* When held at Pacific Highway, WA, was told I HAD entered the US and was in the State of Washington. Threatened with pepper-spray AFTER I collaped with blood pressure of 216/140 and was found lying on the floor of my cell. After being taken to hospital, returned to US immigration who then removed my VALID and LEGAL passport and sent me back to Canada where I was now (obvously) treated as an illegal immigrant - because of the theft of my passport by US immigration. About 3 days later, I was released by the Canadians who were angry with the Americans for trying to misrepresent me and not return my passport (... at least for 10 days).

*Questions ...*

*Question 1:* If I enter the US by plane, or by land, it makes no difference. So why does one immigration official in CA tell me I am not in the US, when later, in WA, I am told I am in the US? Explain this to me please?

*Question 2:* If Americans are so proud of their country, and their so-called civil liberites, explain to me why these actions were justified. Can you justify blackmail and chemical assaults on a person with disabilities and breathing problems???

My suggestion is when you stop treating foreigners like dirt, then you will have respect. Stop behaving like playground bullies and accept that immigration abuses do happen on a regular basis, and that your country's might does not give you the right to abuse those who are smaller than you. Might is NOT right.

*M Holkham said:*



MHolkham said:


> I agree for someone who is so down on Americans, they wouldn't like living here anyway


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## Fatbrit (May 8, 2008)

NotHuman said:


> Different immigration officials interpret immigration laws differently and many I have spoken to give the wrong advice and do not understand their own rules.


Why are US officials expected to give you advice?



NotHuman said:


> So how am I to succeed when I have to rely upon the inconsistent opinions and rulings of those who do not know how to do their jobs? And what about arbitary judgements made against me that I cannot appeal?


Plenty of other people have made it over here without your issues. My own immigration was a doddle -- I went from having never visited the US to citizen in 66 months flat. Why do you think they picked on you and not me?



NotHuman said:


> [2] My wife was an illegal. Now she has remarried for a Green Card. There is no way I could have lived with her in the US. In fact, our own (UK) immigration laws were put the test late last year when a Law Lords ruling would have allowed me to bring my wife to the UK - where we wanted to be all along. I could not bring her to the UK until this powerful legal ruling - but it came too late. The only reason I panicked and tried to reach my wife in September 2008 was because of the threat to my marriage.


So the whole trip to the US was a complete waste of time since there was no way you could ever legally live here on this basis.



NotHuman said:


> [3] I have met numerous American people and made numerous friends. More than in my entire lifetime. I'm not anti-American people, I am anti-American insititulionalised corruption (same with the UK and other Governments too).


There is certainly corruption within the US government. But neither you nor your case have demonstrated this.



NotHuman said:


> [4] Suggest a solution if you can so I can get back, locate and get my last few possessions, and see my friends again. Pro-active advice is better than negative criticism.


You're out! But it was YOUR actions that put you out and nobody else. I'd hazard a guess that you most probably won't be returning to the US. If you want your possessions back, get someone to mail them to you.


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## coolbadger (Sep 17, 2008)

Fatbrit said:


> Why are US officials expected to give you advice?
> 
> 
> Plenty of other people have made it over here without your issues. My own immigration was a doddle -- I went from having never visited the US to citizen in 66 months flat. Why do you think they picked on you and not me?
> ...




Good morning

I accept what FatBrit said and apologise if my previous comments caused offence.

I have re-read your submission and also Fatbrits reply and have to ask a question.

If your wife was an illegal and you are a UK citizen then how could you have hoped to live in the USA? One of you needed to be a US citizen and even then the process can take several months for the spouse to obtain a visa.

Also why did you not just move your wife to the UK if that was your intended location? Why put the US immigration to the test?

Resting on the special relationship between the UK & USA means little when the borders of the USA are bombarded with people wanting to enter the country illegally.

Would the UK Immigration have allowed your wife to enter the UK considering she was in the USA on an illegal status? Could she have even travelled out of the USA?

The whole thing must have deeply hurt you but honestly, considering the legal status of those involved, do you still believe you were unfairly treated?


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## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

OK, I'm going to jump in here with my two cents, too. I've had to deal with the immigration services in three different countries so far (UK, Germany and France) and so have developed an interest in how my home state (US) treats immigrants.

Immigration is by definition a process of discrimination. Immigration laws are enacted to keep out "undesirables" however defined and most immigration laws are expressed in strictly negative terms - i.e. defining in great detail conditions for which a visa can be denied or a foreigner can be expelled from the country. There are darned few immigration laws that spell out the conditions under which anyone is "promised" or "guaranteed" the right to remain or to enter in the first place.

And every country I'm familiar with grants huge discretionary powers to the immigration officers on the front lines. Add to that, the fact that the customs and immigration people always seem to report to an entirely different ministry than do the embassy and consulate personnel who administer the visa application process. On the seemingly universal principle that no two government agencies ever communicate with each other, it's inevitable that you'll get conflicting advice, especially when changing procedures aren't transfered from one department to another.

Thanks to some of that conflicting advice, I wound up illegal here in France for 20 months after marrying a French citizen in our local mairie, so to a certain extent, I understand your feelings of frustration and outrage. Looking back, I handled the situation very badly - and I now admit I could have avoided lots of the problems I brought down on myself if I had known then what I know now. The French system is no more (or no less) corrupt, stupid and unfair than any other immigration system. You have to learn how it works and how to work it to your advantage. Until you figure that out for yourself, though, you're going to make yourself miserable - like I did the first 7 years I lived here in France.
Cheers,
Bev


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## NotHuman (Jul 10, 2009)

I'm quite used to talking to brick walls so I'm sufficiently equipped to make yet another statement about people just not listening to what I say. But here it is again, and using simple terms:

[1] I initially travelled to the US for holidays on the Visa Waiver Programme (VWP). I had NO intention of living there, but I liked the climate, the scenery, all the friendly people I met, and the lifestyle. I figured if I could start a successful business in the UK, I could MAYBE relocate to Eugene, Oregon, at some time in the future. At worst, I could travel there as often as LEGALLY possible as a tourist.

[2] I met and married an illegal immigrant in 2007. I made in perfectly clear in a previous (last?) statement that I knew that we could NOT live in the US together. I was prepared to make the sacrifice of ever thinking of returning to the US on a long-term basis because of my wife's status.

[3] I visited the Immigration (USCIS) office in Portland to ask about the VWP so I could see how often I could return to the US - while I was trying to resolve the legal issue of my wife not being able to join me in the UK. The 'plan' was to spend as much time with my wife in the US UNTIL I could find a way to bring her to the UK. I expected to get advice from the USCIS on the VWP as there is little advice provided on the websites run by the USCIS either in the UK or the US. As a result of my visit to the 'experts', I was given the incorrect advice. If the USCIS doesn't know how to interpret the VWP, then who the Hell does??????

[4] My trips to the US were not a complete waste of time. I initially went there to take holidays and for health reasons. As someone on long-term disability, I found my health improved living in a drier climate. I also needed a break from a stressful life back in the UK. So, physically, and emotionally, my earliest trips to the US did me a great deal of good.

[5] My allegations of corruption will be my word against theirs. But there is corruption. The fact my last pasport was illegally removed from me before being sent back to a 3rd country clearly demonstrates that there was an intention to falsely incriminate me with this 3rd country's immigration system. IF the Americans were going to send me back to the Canadians, I should have been given my passport back. It is the property of her Majesty the Queen's UK Government, not the American Government. As they did steal my passport from me, they should also have detained and charged me until such time that I did get my passport back. They instead opted for criminal behaviour.

[6] Some of my possessions cannot yet be located. I need to be in the US to track them down and collect them. Also, some items cannot be shipped due to Federal regulations.

[7] UK law did not change until later last year when it would then have been possible to bring my wife to the UK. But by then it was too late. IF I had been allowed to make just two more legitimate trips to the US on the VWP, which I should have been allowed, then both I and my wife would now be living in the UK. All the immigration succeeded in doing was destroying our marriage and allowing an illegal immigrant (my ex) to stay in the US. Where's the sense in that?

[8] On the issue of morality, if the US wnats to keep out illegal immigrnats, then US companies operting in 3rd world countries, where they exploit cheap 'slave' labour, should think about paying decent wages and not just focussing on making obscene profits. There are people in these 3rd world countries making barely enough to feed themselves, and for the 'privilege' of living in open-sewered shanty towns. There lives are one of ongoing suffering and exploitation by the West. Guess thats why they will take any chance to get to the West where they can get back some of the money you have bled them for. Can you blame them for doing this? Would you work in a stinking sweatshop for a few dollars a day for a Western (American) company so that we in the West can have cheap (ie) tuna, or a certain famous brand of Sports clothing? And what of the Western (American) employers who take on illegal labour in their own countries? Oh!! I forget!! The US is perfect and American businesses never employ illegals. Shame on ICE for reporting all those busts that never really happen.

Treat people like dirt and they will hate you for it. Even if you think 911 was not a conspiracy, can you expect to have any respect for you when try to exploit, denegrate, bomb, mutilate or murder them? You want to know something? Aside my health reasons, I also went to the US initially to see for myself what the country was really like - and I met many lovely people. Then I fell foul of the gutter trash who have no respect for anyone who is not a full-blooded Yankee red-necked moron.

Finally ...

How many more times do I have to repeat myself on obvious statements? Why have my critics got it into their heads I'm trying to exploit the immigration system? Why have some immigration officials always welcomed me back to the US when others have frowned upon my presence? That's rhetorical, actually. The answer is that the system is open to abuse - corruption and other criminal behaviour. 'nough said.

*You said:*



coolbadger said:


> Good morning
> 
> I accept what FatBrit said and apologise if my previous comments caused offence.
> 
> ...


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## twostep (Apr 3, 2008)

Without going into this public pitty-party:

a) You knowingly married an illigal immigrant in the US?
b) Short of dope, non-documented antiques and illegal weapons I cannot think of anything that cannot be shipped given propper procedure.


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## coolbadger (Sep 17, 2008)

NotHuman said:


> I'm quite used to talking to brick walls so I'm sufficiently equipped to make yet another statement about people just not listening to what I say. But here it is again, and using simple terms:
> 
> [1] I initially travelled to the US for holidays on the Visa Waiver Programme (VWP). I had NO intention of living there, but I liked the climate, the scenery, all the friendly people I met, and the lifestyle. I figured if I could start a successful business in the UK, I could MAYBE relocate to Eugene, Oregon, at some time in the future. At worst, I could travel there as often as LEGALLY possible as a tourist.
> 
> ...


Fair enough Chris

But us 'brick-walls' & 'critics' were somewhat confused initially as to why are you posting a problem with the VWP on the EXPAT forum which is for:

'America Expat Forum for Expats Living in America The America Expats forum is dedicated those individuals that have chosen to make the USA their new home. This forum is an ideal place for Expats now living in the United States to meet and discuss all aspects of their new American way of life. If you want to talk about Real Estate, food, meeting people, employment or anything else you are welcome to join in.'

However I now understand where you are coming from, thank you for explaining.

I shall now leave you in peace.:cool2:


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

I´ve only skimmed this thread, cos its not really my area of expertise, however, the thing that screams out at me from everything the OP has said (from my skimmining) is, why go to the USA?? if its too complicated !!

I´ll go again now, I´m sure there must be some very valid reasons that I´ve missed

Jo xxx


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