# A little courtesy goes a long way



## Elphaba (Jan 24, 2008)

Please, sir, spare a moment for some common courtesy - The National Newspaper

Nice article from The National.


And if you want to spare a moment for the labourers and petrol pump attendants etc in the summer heat, have a look at a new FB group called 'Love Our Labourers'.


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## Andy Capp (Oct 5, 2008)

Facebook link

Funnily enough there's a few familiar names there...

I really don't know how the assistants, especially in the "western" coffee shops keep their cool, cos I'm quite sure if it was me working there I'd have dragged a few of the insolent pigs, sorry, customers, over the counter and shoved the steam jet up their... 

Anyway, common courtesy and manners distinguishes you apart from the crowd, it shows you respect others and you can make someone's day by a kind word.

The fact that you're late is YOUR problem, not theirs....


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## sandypool (Sep 12, 2009)

I agree with every word. I always try to smile and say thank you to the guys the other side of the counter. Have been there myself. The stunned look on their faces when you thank them with a smile says it all - it is clearly not often they receive this. Do the same at the weighing counter in the fruit and veg section. It has earned me enough respect that when one of said rude people pushes in front of me the attendant asks me to come forward (but I do live in ever so small Al Ain).

It's not just the service attendants that get it either. Have been ordering my usual chilled caffeine beverage on many occasions only to have my conversation with the attendant interrupted with "Give me Large Cappuccino". I used to let it slide I now tend to stand my ground and point out that waving money at people is slightly rude (in the most polite way I can).

It infuriates me so much and I quite often have to pinch the back of my hand when I see a service attendants being belittled or just plain rudeness. If I am in Jail at some point in the future for enforcing a little decorum would you please bail me out?


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## JoeW1075 (Dec 29, 2009)

Having worked in the food service industry for almost a decade in my former life, I can tell you this goes a long way on those hectic days.


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## Iron Horse (Apr 10, 2008)

One of my issues/pet peeves in business school was never to buy into the idea that "the customer is always right", because people can be downright rude at times, myself included.

While this article makes some good points, I always like to look at the other side of the coin for argument sake. How many times have I been at the supermarket where the cashier finishes scanning the items, takes your money, but items of yours still waiting to be bagged (sometimes the guy is just buried in items or sometimes it's me sacking my own) and the cashier starts into the next order and sending items down the chute?

I'm all in favor of saying thank you and try to make a habit of it, even though I fail at times because I'm wrapped up in some other thought. However, part of receiving the thank you is for good work. If giving out a thank you for errors or poor work becomes the standard it really cheapens the meaning. This becomes a two way street where all of us need to improve the way we go about things, no matter if we are the Director of Engineering, Sales Clerk, or the Flag Man at the construction site.

Like JoeW most of us have worked in a customer service industry at one point in our lives. The thank you will go a long way, but from my soap box view it needs to be earned too.


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## Andy Capp (Oct 5, 2008)

How can you earn something when your interaction is just seconds - like with the guys that bag the fruit and veg? 

And just because the other person is not courteous doesn't mean that you have to stoop to their level...


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## Ossy (Feb 14, 2010)

Being courteus can also bring you benefits (without even intending for them)... I remember this one time at TGIFridays a friend and I were having a meal, we thought it was really good so we called the manager (he thought we were going to complain) and told him that the meal was very good... he was surprised that this was the reason we called him. At the end of our meal the bill came empty with the only the words "thank you" and we got a chocolate cake!! FREE MEAL FOR SAYING THANK YOU!!!


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## stewart (Jun 21, 2009)

Elphaba said:


> Please, sir, spare a moment for some common courtesy - The National Newspaper
> 
> Nice article from The National.
> 
> ...


I always do cause I have over 500 of them working for me


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## CarlZA (Nov 12, 2008)

Courtesy has made my first week very welcoming indeed. 

But the other night something very odd happened - i went outside my hotel to smoke on the corner of the street. Next moment, an Emirati and his friend coming riding along, he opens the window, spits towards me all the while speaking in Arabic.

Now, I wasn't wearing anything offensive. I don't have a FUBAR hairstyle, in fact I got very short cut hair. I was just smoking, minding my own business.

Very odd indeed.


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## Tropicana (Apr 29, 2010)

Its all about some people of 2 or 3 types.

1 is the Leb/Levant Arab/Iraqi who thinks he is a hotshot just because he had his pics published on Ahlan and he is GM/MD of some company. Guys/girls of this category often act very fussy....

2 is the Indian who just came from India and thinks its ok to snap fingers at waiters and call them by saying "Hello"

The other day this Leb girl is refused cigarettes because she is under 18, and she yells at the cashier "you Filibbinia, you have no right to stop me buying",, the cashier yells back, not very typical scene but I wasnt surprised.


Of course customer service can be very bad and stupid here, but that doesnt mean we should shout....


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## Maz25 (Jul 6, 2008)

Iron Horse said:


> One of my issues/pet peeves in business school was never to buy into the idea that "the customer is always right", because people can be downright rude at times, myself included.
> 
> While this article makes some good points, I always like to look at the other side of the coin for argument sake. How many times have I been at the supermarket where the cashier finishes scanning the items, takes your money, but items of yours still waiting to be bagged (sometimes the guy is just buried in items or sometimes it's me sacking my own) and the cashier starts into the next order and sending items down the chute?
> 
> ...


I agree with you completely. Whilst customers should say thank you, the person serving them should also thank them for their custom.

I have actually given a taxi driver a tip and then taken it back for the simple reason that he practically ripped the money from my hands and then sat there in a huff waiting for me to get out of the taxi. I asked for my tip back and politely pointed out that thank you goes a long way - I had already paid for the fare and was under no obligation to pay anything extra. If he appreciated the gesture, I think thank you is a free word and he should have used it. The fact that I had thanked him for the journey was more than a big enough hint!! That kind of behaviour gives every other taxi driver a bad name, even the taxi driver that, after I tipped him AED 5, flashed me a huge smile and exclaimed "thank you ma'am, have a very nice day." I'm not sure which one of us was more surprised!


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## Mr Rossi (May 16, 2009)

Good manners cost nothing, go a long way and has elevated some of us from the barbaric.


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## Iron Horse (Apr 10, 2008)

Andy Capp said:


> How can you earn something when your interaction is just seconds - like with the guys that bag the fruit and veg?
> 
> And just because the other person is not courteous doesn't mean that you have to stoop to their level...


Are you goading me or asking a serious question? Either way, I'll bite. 

Say you are standing in the supermarket and the queue is all over the place with people reaching over your shoulder handing the fruits/vegetables in the bag to be weighed. The guy/gal clearly sees someone reaching over your shoulder to place the bag on the scale and he/she decides to take that bag even though you have been waiting there patiently. There should be enough common sense and courtesy here for the guy/gal at the weigh station to brush aside the person jumping the queue.

If they drop your bag in the basket do you still say thank you? Even though now your might have a few damaged vegetables? For me at least there is an obvious line.

The queue at the supermarket is very deep. A new cashier opens another register next to the one you are waiting for and then doesn't take the person who was next waiting longer and allows others to jump the queue.

The guy at the parking area taking the token from you. Does he sit inside the shelter talking on his mobile or to the other guys in there and act very casual to get up and accept the token from you to open the gate?

A few observations from me there. Yes, the thank you goes a long way, even in a brief interaction and a lot can happen in that small amount of time. But I still hold to the idea that things should be earned and I don't think it is asking a lot of people.


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## CarlZA (Nov 12, 2008)

Iron Horse said:


> Are you goading me or asking a serious question? Either way, I'll bite.
> 
> Say you are standing in the supermarket and the queue is all over the place with people reaching over your shoulder handing the fruits/vegetables in the bag to be weighed. The guy/gal clearly sees someone reaching over your shoulder to place the bag on the scale and he/she decides to take that bag even though you have been waiting there patiently. There should be enough common sense and courtesy here for the guy/gal at the weigh station to brush aside the person jumping the queue.
> 
> ...


Coming from ZA, I'm fairly used to the above. It stinks sometimes, but hey what can you do?

I just keep being nice and friendly, and in some instances it pays off and in others not. Won't let it get to me though.


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## sandypool (Sep 12, 2009)

IH I know what you mean but the trouble is the servers here put up with the rudeness day in and day out. They are paid appallingly, treated terribly and then we expect them to be jolly and happy before we show them a modicum of decency. I believe in Karma, being impolite should not be the response to impoliteness.


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## Elphaba (Jan 24, 2008)

I am not all at surprised at serving staff here being grumpy, considering the lousy wages, long hours and the rudeness of so many customers. 

Saying hello to the checkout assistant or taxi driver puts everyone in a good mood. I just hate the superior complex of so many expats.

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## Jynxgirl (Nov 27, 2009)

Tip above and beyond the 15% in everything I pretty much do here. I have heard over and over now by others that I am 'over' paying. This is on par with what I would pay at home and what I feel is only right. I am here, making more then I do at home. If I can not pay at least equal to what I make at home, in a country that costs much more to live in, then shame on me. And these people put up with the attitude more then I could EVER put up with! Just in doing so and making it thru a day, deserves my tip, even without the thank you or the smile!

So many of the workers, retail and service people are paid horrible rates.


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## web.Wiz (Jun 17, 2010)

"A little courtesy goes a long way "
indeed! and saying thank you wont cost anything, just shows that you have manners.


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## binden365 (Jan 18, 2010)

One taxi driver my wife and I had said that drivers ignore Emiraties hailing cabs as they are generally rude, especially the young ones! Good work fella.


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## Andy Capp (Oct 5, 2008)

binden365 said:


> One taxi driver my wife and I had said that drivers ignore Emiraties hailing cabs as they are generally rude, especially the young ones! Good work fella.


You and your wife "had" a taxi driver?


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## binden365 (Jan 18, 2010)

Andy Capp said:


> You and your wife "had" a taxi driver?


 LOL, yeah - he was a nice guy!


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## Jynxgirl (Nov 27, 2009)

binden365 said:


> One taxi driver my wife and I had said that drivers ignore Emiraties hailing cabs as they are generally rude, especially the young ones! Good work fella.


Have only 'met' two emiratis (both young late twenties/early thirties) on a personal level and both are overly nice to the workers and over tip. Maybe they just do that when I am there but they just are very very nice people. 

I can say I havent found the same about a number of the expats I have come across.


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## Tropicana (Apr 29, 2010)

Jynxgirl said:


> Tip above and beyond the 15% in everything I pretty much do here. I have heard over and over now by others that I am 'over' paying. This is on par with what I would pay at home and what I feel is only right. I am here, making more then I do at home. If I can not pay at least equal to what I make at home, in a country that costs much more to live in, then shame on me. And these people put up with the attitude more then I could EVER put up with! Just in doing so and making it thru a day, deserves my tip, even without the thank you or the smile!
> 
> So many of the workers, retail and service people are paid horrible rates.


You are free to do what you wish but you are inadvertently skewing their expectations which affects other customers who arent paid as well as you. 

I paid 20 Dhs on a taxi ride which cost 16, and the driver claimed most people would give tips of at least 20 dhs on a ride which costs 16 so I should have given him 35-40 Dhs !


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## Jynxgirl (Nov 27, 2009)

Which is just another of my many issues with this place... that the pay scale is so scewed  

Asking/telling you someone gave him 100% tip of the amount was just being a prick.


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## Felixtoo2 (Jan 16, 2009)

If a taxi driver did that to me i would wait for my four dirhams change. I am pretty generous when it comes to tipping cabbies as I used to be one myself but sometimes you know they are trying to rip you off with indirect routings and downright lies.


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## eastern star (May 18, 2010)

When i was over 2yrs back , and went out for brunch . my bro in law and a english woman really treated the staff like dirty. And they took in , and moved us n the other lot. I didn't know where to look , there was no nead for it .

Another one i was in the wafi food court and waiting my turn. Some guy jump in front. Not worried about it , a nice local lady kick off he jump the queue. And man serving made him go to the end of the line. Its was like being back at school again. Its nice to be nice it will go long way .


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## sdh080 (Jan 20, 2010)

Jynxgirl said:


> *Which is just another of my many issues with this place... that the pay scale is so scewed
> *
> Asking/telling you someone gave him 100% tip of the amount was just being a prick.


Is it?

In the last year or so, the days of crazy salaries are becoming less and less, people are paid in line with the value they bring to a business, that's the same no matter where you go in the world, there's obviously some exceptions here but in the main it holds.


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## Elphaba (Jan 24, 2008)

sdh080 said:


> Is it?
> 
> In the last year or so, the days of crazy salaries are becoming less and less, people are paid in line with the value they bring to a business, that's the same no matter where you go in the world, there's obviously some exceptions here but in the main it holds.


Do you know how much the average labourer earns?

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## sdh080 (Jan 20, 2010)

Elphaba said:


> Do you know how much the average labourer earns?
> 
> -


Of course I do, I don't think there is anyone here that doesn't.

I'm not talking about the extremes, I've read a few posts from Jynxgirl talking about salaries etc and I'm not sure I agree with her.


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## Elphaba (Jan 24, 2008)

What about taxi drivers, hospitality staff etc? Some exceptions? No, many many people here are paid poor wages that are not commensurate with the work they do.

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## sdh080 (Jan 20, 2010)

Elphaba said:


> *What about taxi drivers, hospitality staff etc?* Some exceptions? No, many many people here are paid poor wages that are not commensurate with the work they do.
> 
> -


That's not specific to here though is it, taxi drivers and hospitality staff are poorly paid across the world. 

As I said, no matter where you go in the world, people are paid relative to the value to the company, hence why some jobs are ten a penny and others are highly paid.

It's no different here.


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## Andy Capp (Oct 5, 2008)

sdh080 said:


> That's not specific to here though is it, taxi drivers and hospitality staff are poorly paid across the world.
> 
> As I said, no matter where you go in the world, people are paid relative to the value to the company, hence why some jobs are ten a penny and others are highly paid.
> 
> It's no different here.


I really can't see your argument. Let's take labourers and a "C" level individual at EMAAR, that individual gets paid AED250,000 a month (say) so are you saying that relatively 250 labourers/bricklayers/plumbers/sparkies give less value to the company in 1 month than the said individual? 

Cos I don't.


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## Jynxgirl (Nov 27, 2009)

sdh080 said:


> Of course I do, I don't think there is anyone here that doesn't.
> 
> I'm not talking about the extremes, I've read a few posts from Jynxgirl talking about salaries etc and I'm not sure I agree with her.


You dont have to. I think most people here think that this is some utopia for western people to have cheap maids, cheap drivers, cheap taxis, cheap workers to come do mundane things they would normally do at home, and treat the 'others' very poorly to say the least. 

If you believe paying a maid 1200 dirhams a month, someone to clean ones car 100 dirhams a month (I pay equivalent to that for 2 car washes at home), a qualified (I doubt most of them are qualified but the argument was that they are good qualified nannies) nanny 1500 a month, a hired driver even less... is ok wages to directly pay someone, then so be it in your conscious. That is your world, and I absolutely choose not to be a part of that. I cant change everything, but I surely can effect those that I have direct contact with and utilize. 

Then there are the 50% of the population that are paid very very very little here, treated worst then the above people who the westerners have no problem with avoiding and seeing the reality of it, living in the slave ooops.. they call them worker camps, who do the real work to build this country. The thread recently about complaining that one has to go to work early made me very sad. I would think that a few western men being inconvenienced not seeing their family for a few months would be more then ok as having hundreds of men not forced to take siestas mid afternoon for a few hours during the hottest period with no where to go!!!!! but under a tree where its still so extremely hot I wouldnt let my dog stay out in. They dont get paid enough to even be lucky enough to have their families here and get to see them for a second a day. Can we get some flippin compassion??? 50% of the population being laborers treated terribly is pretty extreme to me.


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## sdh080 (Jan 20, 2010)

Andy Capp said:


> I really can't see your argument. Let's take labourers and a "C" level individual at EMAAR, that individual gets paid AED250,000 a month (say) so are you saying that relatively 250 labourers/bricklayers/plumbers/sparkies give less value to the company in 1 month than the said individual?
> 
> Cos I don't.


It depends what the C level individual does, if they're winning business for the company that bring it millions of revenue to help build the company then they are worth every penny.

It's why Sir Terry Leahy as the Head of Tesco is paid millions when someone in one of his shops get paid minimum wage.


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## sdh080 (Jan 20, 2010)

Jynxgirl said:


> You dont have to. I think most people here think that this is some utopia *for western people to* have cheap maids, cheap drivers, cheap taxis, cheap workers to come do mundane things they would normally do at home, and treat the 'others' very poorly to say the least.
> 
> If you believe paying a maid 1200 dirhams a month, someone to clean ones car 100 dirhams a month (I pay equivalent to that for 2 car washes at home), a qualified (I doubt most of them are qualified but the argument was that they are good qualified nannies) nanny 1500 a month, a hired driver even less... is ok wages to directly pay someone, then so be it in your conscious. That is your world, and I absolutely choose not to be a part of that. I cant change everything, but I surely can effect those that I have direct contact with and utilize.
> 
> Then there are the 50% of the population that are paid very very very little here, treated worst then the above people who the westerners have no problem with avoiding and seeing the reality of it, living in the slave ooops.. they call them worker camps, who do the real work to build this country. The thread recently about complaining that one has to go to work early made me very sad. I would think that a few western men being inconvenienced not seeing their family for a few months would be more then ok as having hundreds of men not forced to take siestas mid afternoon for a few hours during the hottest period with no where to go!!!!! but under a tree where its still so extremely hot I wouldnt let my dog stay out in. They dont get paid enough to even be lucky enough to have their families here and get to see them for a second a day. Can we get some flippin compassion??? 50% of the population being laborers treated terribly is pretty extreme to me.


I think you should change that to "some western people"

And for the record, I don't have any of those things listed and it's certainly not my world.

You obviously have a problem with certain elements of "western people" but don't tar us all with the same brush.

I've been in various labour camps, there's some terrible conditions but again they aren't all the same, some companies realise they have to look after their employees a bit better.

I actually don't find the westerners or our hosts to be the worst, some of the sub-continent nationals who have somehow got themselves into some pretty decent positions have been amongst the most rude and ignorant I've come across.


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## Guest (Jun 20, 2010)

sdh080 said:


> That's not specific to here though is it, taxi drivers and hospitality staff are poorly paid across the world.
> 
> As I said, no matter where you go in the world, people are paid relative to the value to the company, hence why some jobs are ten a penny and others are highly paid.
> 
> It's no different here.


I'm not sure about that, I think the difference is more marked here. There is no minimum wage

Can't agree that people are paid relative to their value. For example work that is considered "women's" is paid less in almost any country than men's work of equal value, for example nurses, child care workers, nannies, etc. 

But aside from that, I guess it's what you consider what work is more valuable. Nannies, for example, are paid poorly for what they do. Who could argue that caring for a child isn't one of the most important jobs in the world? Or teachers who are responsible for educating people who will affect the future?


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## pmac34 (Jan 4, 2010)

Ossy said:


> Being courteus can also bring you benefits (without even intending for them)... I remember this one time at TGIFridays a friend and I were having a meal, we thought it was really good so we called the manager (he thought we were going to complain) and told him that the meal was very good... he was surprised that this was the reason we called him. At the end of our meal the bill came empty with the only the words "thank you" and we got a chocolate cake!! FREE MEAL FOR SAYING THANK YOU!!!


Here's my TGI Fridays story which did not have as good an outcome as yours - My wife and I place our order. My burger arrives with no sign of my wife's. I start to eat and after a few minutes we call the waiter and explained politely that we wished to eat together and could he find out what had happened to my wife's meal. Another five minutes, I am nearly finished my meal and my wife’s arrives. No apology. My wife is about to take a bite out of her burger and I notice some long hairs hanging from the burger. We call the water and explain the situation. He takes the plate away and tells us that he will bring another one. Again no apology. 

Second burger arrives. This is a good 15-20 minutes since I received mine and I am finished. We look at the plate and spot more hair. This hair was not from someone’s head if you get my meaning. We are both furious at this point and ask for the manager. The waiter comes back with the manager and we explain our story. She completely goes on the defensive telling us aggressively that the chef is bald and that there is no way the hair could have come from their kitchen. I was going to ask if he also shaved down below, but she had gone to the kitchen at this point and pulled out a stunned looking bald guy and brought him to our table. My wife and I looked at each other, said nothing, got up and left.

Hope I did not bore you all with that!


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## Gavtek (Aug 23, 2009)

No-one likes a hairy burger!


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## Andy Capp (Oct 5, 2008)

pmac34 said:


> Here's my TGI Fridays story which did not have as good an outcome as yours - My wife and I place our order. My burger arrives with no sign of my wife's. I start to eat and after a few minutes we call the waiter and explained politely that we wished to eat together and could he find out what had happened to my wife's meal. Another five minutes, I am nearly finished my meal and my wife’s arrives. No apology. My wife is about to take a bite out of her burger and I notice some long hairs hanging from the burger. We call the water and explain the situation. He takes the plate away and tells us that he will bring another one. Again no apology.
> 
> Second burger arrives. This is a good 15-20 minutes since I received mine and I am finished. We look at the plate and spot more hair. This hair was not from someone’s head if you get my meaning. We are both furious at this point and ask for the manager. The waiter comes back with the manager and we explain our story. She completely goes on the defensive telling us aggressively that the chef is bald and that there is no way the hair could have come from their kitchen. I was going to ask if he also shaved down below, but she had gone to the kitchen at this point and pulled out a stunned looking bald guy and brought him to our table. My wife and I looked at each other, said nothing, got up and left.
> 
> Hope I did not bore you all with that!


Which TGIs - just for future avoiding...

(Personally I hate TGIs here, whereas in the UK they used to be great best part of 20 years back, now they're just so passée - and the don't do long island iced teas here either!)


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## CarlZA (Nov 12, 2008)

Andy Capp said:


> Which TGIs - just for future avoiding...
> 
> (Personally I hate TGIs here, whereas in the UK they used to be great best part of 20 years back, now they're just so passée - and the don't do long island iced teas here either!)


Do they sell beer? You still owe me one... :becky:


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## pmac34 (Jan 4, 2010)

Andy Capp said:


> Which TGIs - just for future avoiding...
> 
> (Personally I hate TGIs here, whereas in the UK they used to be great best part of 20 years back, now they're just so passée - and the don't do long island iced teas here either!)


Sorry-should have said in my post. No need to worry this TGI Friday experience was in Covent Garden London about four months ago. Won't be going back!

Any good steakhouse restaurants you can recommend here in Dubai Andy?


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## Andy Capp (Oct 5, 2008)

Have a look in Time Out, they have a section on Steakhouses. JWs in Deira has a good following as does The Meat Company - but when I ate their (albeit a few years back) I wasn't impressed.


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## stewart (Jun 21, 2009)

Try the Butcher Shop at MOE, think there are a couple around Dubai as well.
Great Steaks-never been disapointed yet.


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## sdh080 (Jan 20, 2010)

stewart said:


> Try the Butcher Shop at MOE, think there are a couple around Dubai as well.
> Great Steaks-never been disapointed yet.


Seconded.

They are at MOE, JBR and new one has just opened in Mirdif City Centre.

I know the guy that runs them, they pride themselves on the good quality meat they buy.


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## Elphaba (Jan 24, 2008)

:focus:

The is thread is about being nice to people less fortunate, not about where to stuff your faces.

Take a look at this if you need reminding

7DAYS - Labourers left to starve

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## sdh080 (Jan 20, 2010)

Be nice to the staff at the butcher shop while you're there


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## stewart (Jun 21, 2009)

Elphaba said:


> :focus:
> 
> The is thread is about being nice to people less fortunate, not about where to stuff your faces.
> 
> ...


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## Ossy (Feb 14, 2010)

pmac34 said:


> Sorry-should have said in my post. No need to worry this TGI Friday experience was in Covent Garden London about four months ago. Won't be going back!
> 
> Any good steakhouse restaurants you can recommend here in Dubai Andy?


You missed the point on the TGI Fridays story :s but whatever.

Steakhouses... i would recommend Gran Grill.. beats the Butcher Shop my miles.


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## Elphaba (Jan 24, 2008)

stewart said:


> It is not everywhere, I have over 500 working for me and not one complaint.


Glad to hear it.  There are a few companies who provide decent facilities for their employees, but just once company that acts like Portland Technical Marine Servies is one too many.


:focus: Again!

Surely it isn't just me who thinks that itis rather tasteless to discuss restaurants on a thread about people who have next to nothing??
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## Ossy (Feb 14, 2010)

Well if you guys really want to help, you can follow this charity 

HelpingHandsUAE

They hold book sales and such for raising money for labourers. Their events are usually enjoyable.

EDIT: oops i posted this on the wrong thread...


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## Elphaba (Jan 24, 2008)

Ossy said:


> Well if you guys really want to help, you can follow this charity
> 
> HelpingHandsUAE
> 
> They hold book sales and such for raising money for labourers. Their events are usually enjoyable.


We held a booksale on 12th June, but few posters from this board came along. No further sales planned until after the summer.

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## pmac34 (Jan 4, 2010)

Elphaba said:


> :focus:
> 
> The is thread is about being nice to people less fortunate, not about where to stuff your faces.
> 
> ...


Sorry Elphaba,

Not a very clever discussion to be having in light of this article. I just read the other post and if you find out that there is access to the camp PM me and I will add another SUV of food and water or contribute to yours, whatever is needed.


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