# Moving to UK without a job



## RyanGP (Nov 30, 2011)

Hi! This is my FIRST POST. 
We, my wife and I, had vacationed in England for three weeks in 2006 and really liked it. I drove from London anti-clockwise around the south coast, staying for a few days each at Tetbury, Bude, Falmouth, Pewsey, and Goudhurst. Each place was used as a base to explore the country round. 

The first week of November, 2011, we decided that we would like to retire to England if at all possible. What prompted this? Well, I was watching the news on the telly. The 1st story was a shooting of a pregnant woman. She died. The 2nd story was also a shooting to death. Shootings happen all the time here. The 3rd story: 2 ten-year-old boys pushed a trolley cart off the fourth floor of a multi-storey carpark and 'critically injured' (that is, crushed) a woman leaving a Target store. I had the thought: “That's it. I have to live out the remainder of my life somewhere sane.” 

Our timeline is to move in 2018 when my wife retires. Since we live in Seattle now, we believe that the weather won't be a problem as we're pretty much used to it. Britain has a maritime climate similar to Western Washington, yet in Falmouth we saw banana trees and palm trees growing outdoors! We are considering somewhere within a few miles of the coast in Cornwall, Devon, or Dorset. Perhaps Lostwithiel, Kingsbridge, or Bridport. You might think that a sunnier climate would be more suitable, but I have no desire to live where everyday business is conducted in Italian, Spanish, or Greek. They're lovely countries but I would rather speak english. Living in England puts us in range to visit Europe. Good enough. I speak a little German.

So my first question: I've read about people emmigrating to the UK when one spouse or the other is already British, and read here about work visas, but what about two Americans wanting to retire to the UK and not work? Is that possible? Will we be let into the country without a job? Our income will consist of Social Security, some stocks and bonds, and I will have my Pension from working for a municipal government.


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## Crawford (Jan 23, 2011)

RyanGP said:


> Hi! This is my FIRST POST.
> We, my wife and I, had vacationed in England for three weeks in 2006 and really liked it. I drove from London anti-clockwise around the south coast, staying for a few days each at Tetbury, Bude, Falmouth, Pewsey, and Goudhurst. Each place was used as a base to explore the country round.
> 
> The first week of November, 2011, we decided that we would like to retire to England if at all possible. What prompted this? Well, I was watching the news on the telly. The 1st story was a shooting of a pregnant woman. She died. The 2nd story was also a shooting to death. Shootings happen all the time here. The 3rd story: 2 ten-year-old boys pushed a trolley cart off the fourth floor of a multi-storey carpark and 'critically injured' (that is, crushed) a woman leaving a Target store. I had the thought: “That's it. I have to live out the remainder of my life somewhere sane.”
> ...


Just as in the US, there is no retirement visa for non-EU persons. However as US passport holders you are allowed to spend up to 6 months in the UK - so why not become something like a "snow bird" spending 6 months in the US and 6 months in the UK?

You will need to have assets to fund your stay and you will need travel insurance including medical cover since you will not be eligible for the NHS. There are plenty of places that do longterm rentals.

Devon and Cornwall are lovely places but please remember that living somewhere longterm is not the same as spending a few weeks on vacation. Rose colored glasses comes to mind.

If you want to read "horror stories" about living in the UK read the Daily Mail !!!


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## nyclon (Apr 3, 2011)

Your visa options at the moment in 2011 are the same as anyone's. You can marry a Brit, enrol in university, be sponsored for or job or have a huge sum of money to invest in or start business in the UK. But, who knows what the immigration laws will be in 2018.


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## RyanGP (Nov 30, 2011)

*"Retirement Visa"?*



Crawford said:


> Just as in the US, there is no retirement visa for non-EU persons. However as US passport holders you are allowed to spend up to 6 months in the UK - so why not become something like a "snow bird" spending 6 months in the US and 6 months in the UK?
> 
> You will need to have assets to fund your stay and you will need travel insurance including medical cover since you will not be eligible for the NHS. There are plenty of places that do longterm rentals.
> 
> ...


A "Retirement Visa"? I have never heard of this.  I really have NO desire to be a snowbird. If living in the UK requires giving up US citizenship I will do that.  There is nothing to hold me here. Becoming a UK citizen would allow access to the NHS, yes?
As to assets: I expect to collect approx $4500 per month from various sources, which should be adequate for day-to-day expenses and reinvesting. For housing, we will not be renting except during our house hunting, but expect to be able to sell our 4-bedroom US house for $440,000 in 2017 and then purchase a UK 2-bedroom cottage or bungalow for less than that, and for cash. I'm not reading the Daily Mail currently but will look into it. Now I'm reading the Guardian.

Ryan


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## RyanGP (Nov 30, 2011)

*Seems limited.*



nyclon said:


> Your visa options at the moment in 2011 are the same as anyone's. You can marry a Brit, enrol in university, be sponsored for or job or have a huge sum of money to invest in or start business in the UK. But, who knows what the immigration laws will be in 2018.


Marry a Brit is out, too old to do university, I'm RETIRED and don't want a job, and I don't want to start business in the UK. Truly, these are my ONLY options??? 

Ryan


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## Crawford (Jan 23, 2011)

RyanGP said:


> A "Retirement Visa"? I have never heard of this.  I really have NO desire to be a snowbird. If living in the UK requires giving up US citizenship I will do that.  There is nothing to hold me here. Becoming a UK citizen would allow access to the NHS, yes?
> As to assets: I expect to collect approx $4500 per month from various sources, which should be adequate for day-to-day expenses and reinvesting. For housing, we will not be renting except during our house hunting, but expect to be able to sell our 4-bedroom US house for $440,000 in 2017 and then purchase a UK 2-bedroom cottage or bungalow for less than that, and for cash. I'm not reading the Daily Mail currently but will look into it. Now I'm reading the Guardian.
> 
> Ryan


Unless you have British born parents or can claim decendency of British citizens you are not eligible to become UK citizens.

There is no visa which allows you to retire to the UK and you cannot live in the UK without a visa.

Your assets are good, but these alone will not allow you to live in the UK on a permanent basis. 

Sorry, but that's just the way it is.


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## nyclon (Apr 3, 2011)

RyanGP said:


> Marry a Brit is out, too old to do university, I'm RETIRED and don't want a job, and I don't want to start business in the UK. Truly, these are my ONLY options???
> 
> Ryan


Yes. 



> A "Retirement Visa"?


There is no such thing. The options I noted are the only ones. The trend has been towards tightening immigration laws. Even obtaining a spousal visa is likely to become more difficult in the coming months with an income threshold being set in order to assure that UK spouses can support their non-UK/EU spouses without resorting to public funds. In the last year the Tier 2 work visa has been limited to 20,700/year unless you earn a salary over £150,000/year. That is a huge curtailment in economic migrants. The UK is happy to have you pay international student fees or throw your money into a UK business.



> If living in the UK requires giving up US citizenship I will do that.


It doesn't. It does require you to have a visa, though. As a US citizen, you are allowed dual citizenship. However, it is a long road to get there. As an aside, giving up US citizenship isn't that easy. You have to present yourself to an Embassy or possible a Consulate or maybe the State Department, pay a fee of a couple of hundred dollars and make a declaration. Even by doing this, you will still likely be liable for US taxes for another 10 years.



> Becoming a UK citizen would allow access to the NHS, yes?


Well, yes but one of the reasons there is no longer a visa for retirees is to try to prevent burdening the NHS with people who will undoubtably need an escalating amount of care as they age. The NHS is not without it's own problems.



> Well, I was watching the news on the telly. The 1st story was a shooting of a pregnant woman. She died. The 2nd story was also a shooting to death. Shootings happen all the time here. The 3rd story: 2 ten-year-old boys pushed a trolley cart off the fourth floor of a multi-storey carpark and 'critically injured' (that is, crushed) a woman leaving a Target store. I had the thought: “That's it. I have to live out the remainder of my life somewhere sane.”


I guess you missed the story in August about the rioting, looting and general lawlessness that took place across the country ignited when a gang/drug dealer was shot while fleeing the police.



> There is nothing to hold me here.


The grass is always greener. The UK is in the midst of a horrible recession and unemployment is the highest it's been in something like 25 years.

Immigration laws are subject to change every 6 months. Who knows what the laws will be in 2018? The current trend however, suggests that it will become harder to for non-EU citizens to settle in the UK rather than easier.


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## jp1 (Jun 11, 2011)

I would say your chances of being able to retire in the UK are almost zero.

With regard to the British NHS, entitlement is by virtue of the fact of residency. So if you are temporarily resident in the UK via a work visa or a student visa (for a course of study more than 6 months) then you will receive free NHS treatment for the duration of your stay. If you are in the UK on a tourist visa then you are not ordinarily resident and will not be entitled to free treatment.


So by retiring to the UK you will be entitled to free NHS treatment, and basically become a burden to the state during a period of your life when (but I hope not) medical treatment will become costly. All of this benefit being received without having made any contribution to UK life.

If you were younger and coming to the UK for work, or coming with money to invest to create employment opportunities, then your chances of being granted a visa which could then lead to permanent right of leave to remain would be much greater.

The system in no different to the US. In fact the US visa requirements are even more strict, especially with regrads to work visas.


Have a look on the UK border agency website. ( I can't post a link as I am a new member)

By all means try to obtain a visa, but be realistic of your chances!


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## RyanGP (Nov 30, 2011)

*Section 266 info.*



jp1 said:


> I would say your chances of being able to retire in the UK are almost zero.
> 
> Have a look on the UK border agency website. ( I can't post a link as I am a new member)
> 
> By all means try to obtain a visa, but be realistic of your chances!


OK, I looked at the UKBA site and have a fuller understanding. I pasted in the relevant section 266 below. It seems that I will be able to meet EVERY requirement except one - and that one is 266(i) - because _the g'ment no longer issues visas for "entry clearance as a retired person of independent means"_ so *all dependent clauses are therefore moot*. :hurt:

But, who knows what the laws will be in 2018.
--- Ryan

266. The requirements for an extension of stay as a retired person of independent means are that the applicant:
(i) entered the United Kingdom with a valid United Kingdom entry clearance as a retired person of independent means; and 
(ii) meets the following requirements: 
(a) has under his control and disposable in the United Kingdom an income of his own of not less than £25,000 per annum; and 
(b) is able and willing to maintain and accommodate himself and any dependants indefinitely in the United Kingdom from his own resources with no assistance from any other person and without taking employment or having recourse to public funds; and 
(c) can demonstrate a close connection with the United Kingdom; and 
(iii) has made the United Kingdom his main home. 
*Extension of stay as a retired person of independent means*
266A. DELETED
266C. DELETED
266D.DELETED
266E. DELETED
267. An extension of stay as a retired person of independent means, with a prohibition on the taking of employment, may be granted so as to bring the person's stay in this category up to a maximum of 5 years in aggregate, provided the Secretary of State is satisfied that each of the requirements of paragraph 266 is met.
*Refusal of extension of stay as a retired person of independent means*
268.An extension of stay as a retired person of independent means is to be refused if the Secretary of State is not satisfied that each of the requirements of paragraph 266 is met.
*Indefinite leave to remain for a retired person of independent means*
269. Indefinite leave to remain may be granted, on application, to a person admitted as a retired person of independent means provided he:
(i) has spent a continuous period of 5 years in the United Kingdom in this capacity; and 
(ii) has met the requirements of paragraph 266 throughout the 5 year period and continues to do so; and 
(iii) does not have one or more unspent convictions within the meaning of the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act 1974.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

When the RPIM category was abolished 3 years ago on 27th November 2008, one of the reasons given was that so few people applied for it - only about 100 a year, so it was decided to close the category to deploy immigration resources elsewhere.

Phil Woolas, the immigration minister at that time, said in Parliament:

_'We recognise that those entering under the retired persons of independent means route are required to be self-sufficient. But, as was pointed out during the consultation, these people may not have enough disposable income to match the demands they may place on public services. In the light of this, and the limited numbers applying under this route, we believe it is right to no longer permit entry as a retired person of independent means. We will therefore amend the immigration rules to this effect by deleting paragraphs 263-65.'_
Migration Reform (Points-Based System): 4 Nov 2008: Hansard Written Answers and Statements - TheyWorkForYou

You are right. Nobody knows what the rules are going to be in 7 years' time. But I'd hazard a guess that they will hardly be more lenient that they are today, and likely to be harsher and more demanding. It has recently been announced that the economic downturn in UK is liklely to continue for at least 5 more years. A case in point - in the proposed change in rules for family reunion, people joining their spouse and partner in UK will in future need to show UK partner's income of around £26,000 a year, nearly double the current guideline.


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## FreeSpirit1 (Nov 30, 2009)

*Retirement*

I too had planned to 'retire' in the UK then they pulled the plug on that one but fortunately both my Grandparents are British so $424 dollars and I have a 3 year work visa in the pipeline.
I am 61 can work (already have a job to go to), have to 'support' myself and no NHS then after 3 years do it all over again until I can apply to stay permanently.
Britian has the same problems that every other country has but my feet connect with the earth there so I want to live out the rest of my days where my senses are delighted.
Maybe you could explore those options, rent out your house until the house prices rise again.


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## nyclon (Apr 3, 2011)

FreeSpirit1 said:


> I too had planned to 'retire' in the UK then they pulled the plug on that one but fortunately both my Grandparents are British so $424 dollars and I have a 3 year work visa in the pipeline.
> I am 61 can work (already have a job to go to), have to 'support' myself and no NHS then after 3 years do it all over again until I can apply to stay permanently.
> Britian has the same problems that every other country has but my feet connect with the earth there so I want to live out the rest of my days where my senses are delighted.
> Maybe you could explore those options, rent out your house until the house prices rise again.


Th Ancestry Visa is only open to Commonwealth citizens so this option is not available to the original poster who is an American citizen.


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## FreeSpirit1 (Nov 30, 2009)

*Commonwealth*



nyclon said:


> Th Ancestry Visa is only open to Commonwealth citizens so this option is not available to the original poster who is an American citizen.


Really, so many Brits packed up & went in search of a new life to other countries :-(
Well so much for that idea, (I am glad the Australian public still want to be part of the Commonwealth).
I do know of one NZer that has already gone and started a small, no fuss business which has entitled him and his family permanent residency. Maybe that is an avenue?
Where there is a will, there is a way!


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## nyclon (Apr 3, 2011)

FreeSpirit1 said:


> Really, so many Brits packed up & went in search of a new life to other countries :-(
> Well so much for that idea, (I am glad the Australian public still want to be part of the Commonwealth).
> I do know of one NZer that has already gone and started a small, no fuss business which has entitled him and his family permanent residency. Maybe that is an avenue?
> Where there is a will, there is a way!


Where there is a LOT of money, there is a way.


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## 90199 (Mar 21, 2010)

I believe there are retirement visas to retire in Spain for rich citizens of the United States.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Hepa said:


> I believe there are retirement visas to retire in Spain for rich citizens of the United States.


If your name is Bill Gates, I can't think of any country in the world, other than North Korea perhaps, that won't roll out the red carpet for you!


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## RyanGP (Nov 30, 2011)

FreeSpirit1 I like your post of 7 Dec 2011. I do own a large metal lathe that I fool around with, and have worked in the (distant) past as a machinist. Perhaps this hobby can transform into a small business? Does Britain need machinists?


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## RyanGP (Nov 30, 2011)

*'arf Canuck????*



nyclon said:


> Th Ancestry Visa is only open to Commonwealth citizens so this option is not available to the original poster who is an American citizen.


Nyclon, let me run this scenario past you and see what you think of it:

My mother was born in Canada to Canadian parents. 
She married an American in 1954 and moved to the USA. 
I was born in 1955 (in America).
My mother didn't become a naturalized American citizen until 1960 so, _at the time of my birth _ and until I was 5 years old she was legally a Canadian even tho residing in America.

Does this make me half-Canadian in the eyes of the (British) law? 

RyanGP


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

RyanGP said:


> Nyclon, let me run this scenario past you and see what you think of it:
> 
> My mother was born in Canada to Canadian parents.
> She married an American in 1954 and moved to the USA.
> ...


It appears you are a Canadian citizen by descent from your mother born in Canada. The only important fact is that she was born in Canada and was a Canadian citizen and you were born to her . The fact that she subsequently gave up Canadian citizenship in order to be naturalised in US is immaterial. 

The only way to find out for sure is to apply for a citizenship certificate:
Proof of citizenship: Who can apply

You then need to take out a Canadian passport and apply for ancestry visa based on your UK-born grandparent.


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## RyanGP (Nov 30, 2011)

Joppa said:


> It appears you are a Canadian citizen by descent from your mother born in Canada. ...... You then need to take out a Canadian passport and apply for ancestry visa based on your UK-born grandparent.


Ah! There's the rub! Although my mother was Canadian HER parents were... (drum roll please)... from Norway! :tsk:


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## nyclon (Apr 3, 2011)

RyanGP said:


> Nyclon, let me run this scenario past you and see what you think of it:
> 
> My mother was born in Canada to Canadian parents.
> She married an American in 1954 and moved to the USA.
> ...


In addition to the above and just to be clear, being a Canadian citizen allows you to apply for a UK ancestry visa but only if you have a grandparent born in the UK. So, if your grandparents were from Brazil, Canadian citizenship makes no difference. Also, one of the conditions of the ancestry visa is that you intend to work. You've stTed that you want to retire in the UK so this option isn't going go work for you.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

RyanGP said:


> Ah! There's the rub! Although my mother was Canadian HER parents were... (drum roll please)... from Norway! :tsk:


But if one of your father's parents was born in UK, you will still qualify for ancestry visa.


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