# Largest Expat population?



## dcraig

I am posting this for a family member back in Canada, as I am already registered, and they aren't that computer savvy, not that I'm much better.
They are starting to think about their retirement, and looking for places in Mexico, and would like to know, where on either coast of Mexico is the largest population of English speaking expats, both year round or even just seasonal. Only interested in coastal, beachfront cities, towns, area's etc, not inland locations. If you can provide approx. numbers, great, but know that would probably only be an estimated guess, they are planning on spending a few months somewhere this winter to see how they like it. They have visited several area's as tourists but never really with retirement in mind until lately. Much Gracias


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## sparks

Mazatlan and Vallata area for the Pacific. Vallarta area includes Nayarit thru Vallarta. Lots of smaller towns that grow a lot in the winter but still may have a couple hundred full timers. Do they really want to largest expat population.

If they are thinking retirement they better try the coast in the summer


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## RVGRINGO

If they really want a coastal location, they should visit right now, during the brutal heat and humidity season, and try it without A/C unless they have deep pockets; deep enough to have an inland second home at a higher elevation for the hot months.


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## TundraGreen

dcraig said:


> I am posting this for a family member back in Canada, as I am already registered, and they aren't that computer savvy, not that I'm much better.
> They are starting to think about their retirement, and looking for places in Mexico, and would like to know, where on either coast of Mexico is the largest population of English speaking expats, both year round or even just seasonal. Only interested in coastal, beachfront cities, towns, area's etc, not inland locations. If you can provide approx. numbers, great, but know that would probably only be an estimated guess, they are planning on spending a few months somewhere this winter to see how they like it. They have visited several area's as tourists but never really with retirement in mind until lately. Much Gracias


I think I understand the urge to live amongst others of similar background. It is clearly a universal urge: Look at all the Little Mexicos, Chinatowns, Japan towns in the US. And in former times, there were Italian, German, Irish enclaves, still are in many places.

However, I would like to comment that the complexion (figuratively and literally) of the place you live has consequences for the kind of life you will have. If most of your neighbors are from north of the border, most of your friends may be also. If all of your neighbors speak English, then the shop keepers will speak English. It is difficult enough, for me at least and for many people of retirement age, to learn a new language. Surrounding yourself with people who speak English ensures for many people that they will never master Spanish. 

But even more than language there are many things you learn from rubbing shoulders with locals. I learn a lot about the culture, local customs, local events and more from hanging out with locals. No one will ever mistake me for a Mexican, they usually guess that I am Italian for some reason. But my life is much richer and more interesting for the effort to learn a new language and different customs. 

And a fringe benefit is that, supposedly, learning a new language may help to prevent or delay the onset of Alzheimer's.

So live where ever suits you, but be aware that it is a decision that makes a big difference in the kind of life you will have. Neither is bad, just different.


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## RVGRINGO

Another consideration would be the expat population itself. Are they mostly seasonal tourists, who would have little in common with a resident, or are the majority full time residents with an interest in Mexico beyond the beach resorts?


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## citlali

Let´s face it many people have no interest in Mexico for its culture and no interest in learning Spanish otherwise why would they want to find a large expat community. Have you seen how many Brits, German and Scandinavian have places in Spain? I can assure you that very few of them have anything to do with anything Spanish.
Also it is easy to forget that many Europeans from northern Europe and people from cold countries, cold winters, grey type of climates are desperate for sun.I am the only one in my extended family who wants to live in the Highlands, all of my family wants sun and sea .the grass is always greener on the other side. 
If these people have their heart set on warmth, sea and sun , they are not going to listen to people advising them against the coast.
Just tell them where they can find a bunch of other expats who are basking in heat and humidity and if they find out that they do not like it they will figure out their next step. Let them have their dream . 
I know from personal experience in my family that none of them are chosing cooler climates after a few years, it is all a question of personal taste.

So it is back to Cabo San Lucas, Mazatlan ,Puerto Vallarta, Cancun/Playa del Carmen and so on Which ones of these areas have the largest amount of English Speaking expats?


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## AlanMexicali

I was from Canada, the prairies, and I know how hot some summers are and lived in the east for a year and know it was very hot and muggy that summer.

The one time I was back to visit on the prairies in 2005 it was 40 C. every day, but fairly dry. Nice.

I check coastal temps. in Mexico and this summer it rarely gets over 38 C. and humid, so far, also nice.

I feel it depends on where you lived before and what you like. Puerto Vallarta has many English only speaking full and part time Canadian, American and some European residents and most that cater to them have basic English skills or better. No need to speak Spanish there for the most part. Happy hour starts at 4PM after nap hour.


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## Isla Verde

AlanMexicali said:


> I was from Canada, the prairies, and I know how hot some summers are and lived in the east for a year and know it was very hot and muggy that summer.
> 
> The one time I was back to visit on the prairies in 2005 it was 40 C. every day, but fairly dry. Nice.
> 
> I check coastal temps. in Mexico and this summer it rarely gets over 38 C. and humid, so far, also nice.


If you can call 38ºC. "nice", then you and I have very different concepts of what "nice" is"!  For me "nice" is 24º to 27º C. max. with no humidity.


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## TundraGreen

Isla Verde said:


> If you can call 38ºC. "nice", then you and I have very different concepts of what "nice" is"!  For me "nice" is 24º to 27º C. max. with no humidity.


It isn't the moderate summers in DF that would bother me, it is the 5º C January mornings that I don't like. DF is about 700 m (7000 feet versus 5000 ft) higher than Guadalajara and it makes a big difference in the winter.

On average in January, Gdl has a high of 25 C and low of 10 C. 
DF has a high of 21 C and low of 6 C.


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## Isla Verde

TundraGreen said:


> It isn't the moderate summers in DF that would bother me, it is the 5º C January mornings that I don't like. DF is about 700 m (7000 feet versus 5000 ft) higher than Guadalajara and it makes a big difference in the winter.
> 
> On average in January, Gdl has a high of 25 C and low of 10 C.
> DF has a high of 21 C and low of 6 C.


But you're from Alaska, TG. Why would the cool January early mornings in Mexico City be a problem for you? Anyway, by the time the sun's been up for a few hours, it turns nice and warm and stays that way all day. When I go to sleep, I put my fluffy winter quilt on my bed and sleep like a log.


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## TundraGreen

Back to the original question...

I don't have experience with all of the big coastal cities, just Mazatlan, Puerto Vallarta, Cabo San Lucas, Tulum (the closest I got to Cancun). I have also visited a few smaller beach towns, like Melaque, Barra de Navidad, La Manzanilla, La Paz, Progresso, San Blas. 

If I were interested in a beach town with lots of foreigners and a reasonable nightlife, my first choice would be Mazatlan. It is not as overrun by people catering to the expats but there are lots of them there. North of the Zona Dorado, there are lots of huge condo complexes that seem mostly inhabited by expats.

One could live in one of those high-rise condos and you would need a car to get to shopping. I did not check out the beach on the ocean side of the condos so I don't know what that looks like. Or take the bus that runs along the malecon every few minutes. Or one could live behind Zona Dorado with a short walk to the beach. Or you could live down near the south end of the beach near the central plaza and the mercado. Lots of options.


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## GARYJ65

I would dare to say that my city, Mexico CIty has the most espat population in the Country


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## citlali

Yes but the question is the largest expat population on a beach, where is the beach is Mexico City??


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## Hound Dog

[_QUOTE=dcraig;1282217]I am posting this for a family member back in Canada, as I am already registered, and they aren't that computer savvy, not that I'm much better.
They are starting to think about their retirement, and looking for places in Mexico, and would like to know, where on either coast of Mexico is the largest population of English speaking expats, both year round or even just seasonal. Only interested in coastal, beachfront cities, towns, area's etc, not inland locations. If you can provide approx. numbers, great, but know that would probably only be an estimated guess, they are planning on spending a few months somewhere this winter to see how they like it. They have visited several area's as tourists but never really with retirement in mind until lately. Much Gracias[/QUOTE]_

Well dcraig:

I´m surprised you didn´t recommend Salinas to them since, from what I have seen on the internet, it seems like an excellent beach location with, according tothe internet, a nice year round climate - presumably because of a prevailing sea breeze. I take it that you are staying on in Ecuador but your relatives prefer Mexico which is fine. 

Since your family members are only interested in Mexican coastal towns with large English speaking expat populations, it seems safe to assume they don´t speak Spanish or have very limited Spanish speaking skills. An earlier poster referred to the fact that a Mexican beach resort environment with a large English speaking expat population is not normally a community with characteristics conducive to learning to cope with Spanish and that is a good point although that may not be an important factor as far as the family members of whom you speak are concerned. 

This notion that one finds an environment where few English speakers reside more conducive to picking up the local language than an environment with a large component of residents who speak one´s native tongue, is a valid one. This has definitely been my personal experience living part of each year at Lake Chapala in an area with many English speaking expats and locals alike and part of the year in San Cristóbal de Las Casas, Chiapas where there are very few Englsh speakers whether expat or local residents. At Lake Chapala in the area with a large concentration of English speaking expats, local residents befriending or catering to the expat community have little patience for expats attempting to practice their broken Spanish so it is easier simply to revert to English in handling every day affairs. In Chiapas, since very few with whom one must communicate speaks English, the expat must learn to cope in Spanish in order to survive in normal every-day social and business intercourse. Thus, my Spanish, of necessity, improves significantly while I am in Chiapas over that with which I can cope at Lake Chapala. While this may not be important to the family members of the OP, those of you planning to move down here full time should keep this in mind and if learing the local language is important to you, this will become a factor in choosing the place you wish to reside - beachfront or highlands.

This isn´t as important to some as to others. My wife, who is a French native, learned Spanish with relative ease compared with me and my elementary attempts at coping with Spanish have only been partially successful.


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## TundraGreen

GARYJ65 said:


> I would dare to say that my city, Mexico CIty has the most espat population in the Country


Also, the relevant statistic is not the absolute number of expats but rather, the ratio of expats to locals. Mexico City may have a lot of expats, but their influence is much less than in beach communities or Chapala or San Miguel de Allende.


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## Isla Verde

TundraGreen said:


> Also, the relevant statistic is not the absolute number of expats but rather, the ratio of expats to locals. Mexico City may have a lot of expats, but their influence is much less than in beach communities or Chapala or San Miguel de Allende.


Good point! And that's one of the reasons I like living here - I didn't move to Mexico to spend most of my time with people from my home country.


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## AlanMexicali

Isla Verde said:


> Good point! And that's one of the reasons I like living here - I didn't move to Mexico to spend most of my time with people from my home country.


I have met one American my age I visit and socialize with married to my wife´s friend and one American Expat also married to my wife´s friend who is in his 90s and we go to their parties and one other American Expat I met from this board where we met for coffee once. That´s it here for me, so far in 5 years.


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## Hound Dog

_


Isla Verde said:



Good point! And that's one of the reasons I like living here - I didn't move to Mexico to spend most of my time with people from my home country.

Click to expand...

_We, like Isla Verde, did not move to Mexico to live in an area with a large colony of English speaking expats, so after six years at Lake Chapala, we studied our maps and experiences in depth trying to find a place to move to with demographics less dominated by English speaking expats and also less influenced in attitudes by the typical crotchety nature exhibited by old goobers inhabiting retirement communites the world over - even as in the case of "Lakeside" which has a much larger componenet of young locals living among the retirees than one would find at Sun City. 

We are not beach people in that we have no desire to live in the beach environments in Mexico year round which, with the exception of the northern coastside area of Baja California from the California line to about Ensenada with that area´s cooling coastal fogs and cold ocean current, are impossibly hot and humid; for us anyway, having escaped the Alabama Gulf Coast for cool San Francisco eons ago. Therefore,we were not looking at beach towns with the exceptions of Puerto Vallarta, The Bays at Huatulco, Tulum and Puerto Morelos all of whom we untimately rejected for various reaaons except as deep winter vacation spots. We had left on our plate, Guadalajara, Cuernevaca, Oaxaca City, and reluctantly because of climate Mérida and Lake Bacalar. We finally settled on San Cristóbal de Las Casas after a brief viisit there as it met several of our criteria:
* High altitude, fresh climate which it delievered (perhaps a bit too well) at 2,000 Meters.
* Splendid historic architecture in its historic center.
* A smaller, but not too small, city with a population of about 130,000 people. Relative tranquility and civilized traffic but, and more importantly, a compact area within the mostly flat historic center topographically speaking with easy access to just about every place one might wish to go on foot or, even when walking is not feasible, cheap, non-metered taxis that will take one anywhere in town for $25MXN. When we go there, we park our car and walk of taxi or combi everywhere - cranking that car up only when we go on road trips or return to Lake Chapala.
* An endlessly fascinating local demographic profile 40% comprised of indigenous Maya from the city and surrounding mountainous indigenous communities with numerous artisanal crafts people.
* Wiithin reasonable drives of the Pacific, Gulf and Caribbean Coasts from Oaxaca State to Chiapas to the Yucatan Peninsula to Veracruz State according to our mood at the moment during the winter months when the climates in these places is bearable.

Your criteria may differ but I suggest sitting down and thnking out what is important to you before beginning exploratory trips here and there.

By the way, after we succeeded in acquiring a residence in San Cristóbal, we discovered that, despite the Lake Chapala negatives mentioned above, three factors have kept us at the Lake part of each year after all. First, the climate at Lake Chapala at 1,500 Meters mas or menos is nonpareil at least in Mexico or anywhere else in North America and the summer rains at San Cristóbal are really cold and clammy inundations so the lake beckons all summer. Secondly, the medical care available at nearby Guadalajara is among the best in Mexico or the world for that matter while the medical care in Chiapas leaves something to be desired to put it mildly - a factor that becomes more important the older one gets, and, finally, we have five dogs we can walk on endless deserted beaches at Lake Chapala while San Cristóbal is a totally built-up, row house urban zone lacking that dog friendly environment on federal beach lands open to all but seldom veisited by all those expat retirees up the hill in their gated enclaves- no crowds of beach strollers to share the beach with so no poop bags required.


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## dcraig

Gracias to those who have posted constructive answers to the original question, but I don't understand why, to some, its such a big deal that someone wants to move to an area with a large, English speaking community, but could be that, at their age (early 60's) they don't want to have to learn a new language in order to live day to day, have you ever been to a hospital and have to try explain what was wrong to people who don't know a word of English? I have!, luckily it wasn't something serious, and I have found that the larger the number of English speaking expats or tourists, the larger the number of locals that can at least speak a bit, if not a lot of English, it just makes day to day living easier and a lot less stressfull, especially when dealing with gov't workers, but also at the grocery store etc. I have been in a taxi in Vancouver and had a driver that neither of us could understand his poor english, and he was Canadian (from Quebec) and obviously never bothered to learn English until he left Quebec. At least here in Salinas, and wherever I have been in Mexico, most cab drivers understand enough English to communicate enough with. As for recommending they move here to Salinas, instead of Mexico, its too far away from family in BC, they where here for a visit last month, and while they loved everything, the time (and cost) it takes to get here from Vancouver is just too much for them, they have 4 kids in BC, 7 grandkids, plus their own brother/sister. So going back to visit or for family emergencies has to be easy. Most major coastal cities in Mexico have direct flights from Vancouver, so much easier to go back and forth, for both them and people who want to visit them without breaking the bank, for ex: YVR or SeaTac - PVR, on sale, under $400, and 5 hours, wheres Salinas, a least $1000 or more and 24 hours +- of travelling and 3-4 different flights, and those are the cheap flights. Anyway, it looks like they might be leaning towards PVR or Maz, but if anyone can shed light on anywhere else, sure they would appreciate it, Mucho Gracias


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## GARYJ65

citlali said:


> Yes but the question is the largest expat population on a beach, where is the beach is Mexico City??


I missed that part of the thread, it should say "where is the beach in Mexico City" anyhow


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## GARYJ65

TundraGreen said:


> Also, the relevant statistic is not the absolute number of expats but rather, the ratio of expats to locals. Mexico City may have a lot of expats, but their influence is much less than in beach communities or Chapala or San Miguel de Allende.


Ok, I take it back then... i don't know the answer


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## citlali

Well I am sure the Aztecs had some nice beaches but that was a long time ago and it had a different name. I wish I could have seen it then.I always think about the view the Spaniards must have had coming in from Puebla, if the road or path went through the same area, it must have been some sight, with that big lake..what a shame most of it is gone..


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## GARYJ65

citlali said:


> Well I am sure the Aztecs had some nice beaches but that was a long time ago and it had a different name. I wish I could have seen it then.I always think about the view the Spaniards must have had coming in from Puebla, if the road or path went through the same area, it must have been some sight, with that big lake..what a shame most of it is gone..


I bet that the remaining Aztecs think about the Spaniards too


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## GARYJ65

GARYJ65 said:


> I bet that the remaining Aztecs think about the Spaniards too


On second thought...I bet the Spaniards think about the good old times too!


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## vantexan

After looking at Guatemala and considering our fluency level we have put a deposit down on an apartment in San Miguel de Allende. It's $450 a month all inclusive. It's not only just having alot of English speakers in the area but there are alot of services catering to the needs of all those expats that make it a super easy transition. There's even a very detailed guide to the city published by a local expat that covers everything you could want or need with good directions. As our soon to be landlord says it's not much different than living in Brownsville, TX in terms of ease. Better weather and scenery though! There's a Tuesday tianguis that should meet most of our needs for economical living. Being a short distance from Guanajuato and Queretaro and numerous other places to explore is a huge plus too.


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## Marishka

San Miguel is a great choice for an expat who speaks little to no Spanish and wants an easy transition to living in Mexico. Plus, there's a ton of stuff to do there. You definitely won't be bored. How soon are you moving there?

Did you go there in person to check out this rental, or did you decide to rent it just based on photos and the landlord's description of the apartment and neighborhood?


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## vantexan

Marishka said:


> San Miguel is a great choice for an expat who speaks little to no Spanish and wants an easy transition to living in Mexico. Plus, there's a ton of stuff to do there. You definitely won't be bored. How soon are you moving there?
> 
> Did you go there in person to check out this rental, or did you decide to rent it just based on photos and the landlord's description of the apartment and neighborhood?


Found it on Craigslist. So far everything seems on the up and up. He's willing to walk through apartment with iPad on Skype to show us interior and only asked for a $250 deposit. Have seen pics of the outside of building on his Facebook page. Has a nice balcony with patio furniture.


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## TundraGreen

vantexan said:


> Found it on Craigslist. So far everything seems on the up and up. He's willing to walk through apartment with iPad on Skype to show us interior and only asked for a $250 deposit. Have seen pics of the outside of building on his Facebook page. Has a nice balcony with patio furniture.


My only experience with Mexican rentals on Craigslist is that they may be pricey. My former landlord charges about double the local market rate and gets almost all of his tenants from Craigslist because they will not realize the local rate until they have been here for awhile. Consequently, he does not have a lot of long term tenants. I didn't find it through Craigslist but I was equally naive about rates when I rented from him.


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## GARYJ65

vantexan said:


> Found it on Craigslist. So far everything seems on the up and up. He's willing to walk through apartment with iPad on Skype to show us interior and only asked for a $250 deposit. Have seen pics of the outside of building on his Facebook page. Has a nice balcony with patio furniture.


I live very close to San Miguel, if I can be of any assistance, please let me know!


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## vantexan

GARYJ65 said:


> I live very close to San Miguel, if I can be of any assistance, please let me know!


Thanks Gary, might take you up on that!


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## vantexan

TundraGreen said:


> My only experience with Mexican rentals on Craigslist is that they may be pricey. My former landlord charges about double the local market rate and gets almost all of his tenants from Craigslist because they will not realize the local rate until they have been here for awhile. Consequently, he does not have a lot of long term tenants. I didn't find it through Craigslist but I was equally naive about rates when I rented from him.


From what I've seen on the 'net $450 with utilities, cable, and wi-fi included is on the lower end of the scale in SMA. That's in ****** terms, most likely lower for locals. Seems prices go down as distance from Jardin increases. If it's a terrible place we're only out $250 but he's risking having us warn people on Craigslist so we like our chances it'll be nice enough.


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## Marishka

vantexan said:


> Found it on Craigslist. So far everything seems on the up and up. He's willing to walk through apartment with iPad on Skype to show us interior and only asked for a $250 deposit. Have seen pics of the outside of building on his Facebook page. Has a nice balcony with patio furniture.


I just asked because too often people rent something from an online ad and then discover when they get there that there's a terrible noise problem, or that it's in a neighborhood that's experiencing a lot of crime, that there's a problem with fumes from buses, the brick-burning kilns, etc., that the apartment or house gets way too hot because of the way it's situated, that there's a problem with the appliances, etc.

People find the best deals when they are actually there by asking around, looking for _se renta_ signs while walking through neighborhoods where they want to live, ads on local bulletin boards, etc. If you're there, you can check the neighborhood both day and night for issues like noise, smells (San Miguel lists are full of "What's that horrible smell in such-and-such neighborhood" posts) and safety issues.

You may have lucked out and gotten the perfect rental without having been there to check it out, but as long as you got a very short-term lease, you can find something better when you get there if it turns out to be not so ideal.


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## Isla Verde

vantexan said:


> From what I've seen on the 'net $450 with utilities, cable, and wi-fi included is on the lower end of the scale in SMA. That's in ****** terms, most likely lower for locals. Seems prices go down as distance from Jardin increases. If it's a terrible place we're only out $250 but he's risking having us warn people on Craigslist so we like our chances it'll be nice enough.


Keep in mind that Craig's List is not the place to go on the internet for rentals in Mexico. If you can read Spanish, I would check out segundamano.mx, adoos.com.mx and vivastreet.com.


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## Marishka

vantexan said:


> If it's a terrible place we're only out $250 but he's risking having us warn people on Craigslist so we like our chances it'll be nice enough.


One bit of advice I’ve read about leases in Mexico is that it’s a good idea to add a clause giving you the right to break the lease with a month's notice. That way, all you can lose is your deposit. 

I recently read about a woman who was almost beaten to death in her Ajijic rental home by an intruder. After she recovered from her injuries, she told the landlord that she was going to move out. She thought the landlord understood. She gave the keys to a lawyer to return them to the landlord. Apparently, the lawyer didn't follow through, and rent continued to accrue. 

One morning after she moved to another house, the woman awoke to the sound of someone knocking on her front door. It was the police, court staff, and a translator. They had brought a tow truck with them, and you can guess why. The landlord had sued her for the total amount of the lease. So far, the landlord is winning. 

Spencer McMullen, an attorney and official court translator in Chapala, wrote an article for _Mexico Expat Press_ about what to expect and what your rights are if you ever get that “early morning knock at the door.” Here's the link to that article:

6 Big Mistakes People Make in Mexican Lawsuits


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## vantexan

Isla Verde said:


> Keep in mind that Craig's List is not the place to go on the internet for rentals in Mexico. If you can read Spanish, I would check out segundamano.mx, adoos.com.mx and vivastreet.com.


I've been looking at vivastreet.com, thanks for the other two. There's also a Yahoo Group with over 1000 members devoted to posting SMA rentals. It, like Craigslist, is good for finding turnkey apartments primarily from ****** landlords. It's a bit daunting with very limited Spanish trying to figure out how to contact people on sites like vivastreet. You and others have pointed out how knowing Spanish opens up alot of doors and I believe it. I can make out a good deal of what's written in ads, but communicating in person is beyond me. Hope to remedy that! We really want to start with a completely furnished, utilities included apartment and go from there.


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## vantexan

Marishka said:


> I just asked because too often people rent something from an online ad and then discover when they get there that there's a terrible noise problem, or that it's in a neighborhood that's experiencing a lot of crime, that there's a problem with fumes from buses, the brick-burning kilns, etc., that the apartment or house gets way too hot because of the way it's situated, that there's a problem with the appliances, etc.
> 
> People find the best deals when they are actually there by asking around, looking for _se renta_ signs while walking through neighborhoods where they want to live, ads on local bulletin boards, etc. If you're there, you can check the neighborhood both day and night for issues like noise, smells (San Miguel lists are full of "What's that horrible smell in such-and-such neighborhood" posts) and safety issues.
> 
> You may have lucked out and gotten the perfect rental without having been there to check it out, but as long as you got a very short-term lease, you can find something better when you get there if it turns out to be not so ideal.


OK, you have me worried! Hopefully it's a decent place, certainly more affordable than many I've seen.


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## Isla Verde

vantexan said:


> I've been looking at vivastreet.com, thanks for the other two. There's also a Yahoo Group with over 1000 members devoted to posting SMA rentals. It, like Craigslist, is good for finding turnkey apartments primarily from ****** landlords. It's a bit daunting with very limited Spanish trying to figure out how to contact people on sites like vivastreet. You and others have pointed out how knowing Spanish opens up alot of doors and I believe it. I can make out a good deal of what's written in ads, but communicating in person is beyond me. Hope to remedy that! We really want to start with a completely furnished, utilities included apartment and go from there.


Dealing with a ****** landlord is probably not the best way to get a good deal, but till your Spanish speaking skills are up to snuff, having a landlord who speaks English should make things a bit easier at the start. I hope you're planning to sign up for some Spanish classes once you get to San Miguel.


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## Marishka

vantexan said:


> OK, you have me worried! Hopefully it's a decent place, certainly more affordable than many I've seen.


No te preocupes. I can think of all kinds of risky things I've done in my life that had a happy ending. Like marrying my husband only 6 weeks after we met.  That was 39 years ago and we're still very happy together, but I'd never recommend that others follow my example!

Likewise, you may have lucked out and gotten an absolutely great deal on your apartment. I just thought people reading this thread should know what can happen if you rent something without actually checking it out in person.

I'm looking forward to reading your posts from San Miguel, vantexan. How soon are you moving there?


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## sunnyvmx

After five years renting a casita in Catemaco and watching the property deteriorate while the landlord was swinging in his hammock, I posted my desire for a rental in Chapala. I immediately received a reply from Tom L about a one bedroom he had available. I asked a few questions and sent the rent payment in full. Sight unseen. I arrived two weeks later, saw another possible apartment which was being used as a storeroom, but had a large screened in patio. Tom and I discussed what I wanted and in three weeks the kitchen was installed, the electric outlets were placed where I needed, my new fridge was delivered, the rooms were cleaned top to bottom, patio shelving was in place for my extensive garden and the birds and I moved in. The right landlord can absolutely make all the difference and mine is a gem. The pool is sparkling clean and he's talking about solar heating this winter. The property is constantly being maintained and improved and it's truly my paradise.


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## citlali

A friend of mine asked me to find a place for her for 450 dollars, in a specific area, I saw a few nice 2 bedrooms casitas and I also saw a nice house in a bad location, and several others near evntos, others that did not have any security and so on. You can get lucky renting over the internet but I sure would not do it unless it was a short term rental and ther were not strings attached. If you can get out easily bo big deal,,
San Miguel is a pretty town but way far away from the towns you were looking into , actually quite the oposite. Always interesting to see what people thik they want and where they end up.
Enjoy San Miguel


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## Longford

dcraig said:


> Anyway, it looks like they might be leaning towards PVR or Maz, but if anyone can shed light on anywhere else, sure they would appreciate it, Mucho Gracias



Each of us has our own comfort levels and needs/wants ... and ... because of the high rates of crime/homicide and terrorist acts in Mazatlan and/ or elsewhere in the state of Sinaloa, if this were a move I was considering in the near future I'd likely delete Mazatlan from any list of possibilities.


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## RVGRINGO

I sure would prefer Mazatlan to Chicago! But then, I have been to Mazatlan in recent times, but not to Chicago for about 40 years. It was dangerous then, even to take a taxi, as a doctor friend did and was taken to an alley, stripped and left naked by a gang of accomplices, not far from the better hotels, where we were attending a convention.


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## Longford

I'm in Toronto as I write this and can't locate some of the statistics I've bookmarked, but Chicago had, in 2012, a homicide rate of about 19 per 100,000. Mazatlan's rate was, if I'm recalling correctly, more than 45-50 per 100,000. Greater than Los Angeles, New York City, etc. If someone has better statistics, for 2012, post them as a correction. In Mexico, however, accurate statistics are elusive. Sinaloa as a whole is one of the terrorist centers for violence in the nation. As I said, comfort levels vary.


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## RVGRINGO

So, I guess we will not be seeing you in Mexico soon.


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## AlanMexicali

Longford said:


> I'm in Toronto as I write this and can't locate some of the statistics I've bookmarked, but Chicago had, in 2012, a homicide rate of about 19 per 100,000. Mazatlan's rate was, if I'm recalling correctly, more than 45-50 per 100,000. Greater than Los Angeles, New York City, etc. If someone has better statistics, for 2012, post them as a correction. In Mexico, however, accurate statistics are elusive. Sinaloa as a whole is one of the terrorist centers for violence in the nation. As I said, comfort levels vary.


The only thing I know about Sinaloa besides what I read is a friend of mine had a best friend driving to Bucerias for a couple of months in 2005 in his fully loaded down, not so new pickup, and stopped outside Culiacan for the night at a cheap motel on the highway, his big mistake, and when he woke up it was gone. He never did get it back. Insurance paid for most of it, but not all.

My good friends from Culiacan never had had any serious problems living their lives there and their family, neighbors and friends etc. except their alcoholic younger brother´s violence at times. The police beat him up a few times when they called and left him in the front yard.


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## Isla Verde

RVGRINGO said:


> So, I guess we will not be seeing you in Mexico soon.


Unless he can find a city with a lower murder rate than Chicago's.


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## Marishka

Longford said:


> Each of us has our own comfort levels and needs/wants ... and ... because of the high rates of crime/homicide and terrorist acts in Mazatlan and/ or elsewhere in the state of Sinaloa, if this were a move I was considering in the near future I'd likely delete Mazatlan from any list of possibilities.


Longford, I don't understand why you would cross Mazatlan off your list based on its homicide rate. According to La violencia en los municipios de México 2012, Mazatlan has a homicide rate of 23 per 100,000. Compare that with couple of places that made your Top 5 Mexican Cities List.



Longford said:


> The next place I'll likely live in Mexico is on the list which follows ... in order of current preference / enjoyability / anticipated lifestyle:
> 
> *Zacatecas (the city)*
> Chilapa, Guerrero
> Tlaxcala (the city)
> Mexico City
> *Acapulco*


Zacatecas: 41.24 homicides per 100,000
Acapulco: 142.88 homicides per 100,000



Longford said:


> I'm in Toronto as I write this and can't locate some of the statistics I've bookmarked, but Chicago had, in 2012, a homicide rate of about 19 per 100,000. Mazatlan's rate was, if I'm recalling correctly, more than 45-50 per 100,000. Greater than Los Angeles, New York City, etc. If someone has better statistics, for 2012, post them as a correction. In Mexico, however, accurate statistics are elusive. Sinaloa as a whole is one of the terrorist centers for violence in the nation. As I said, comfort levels vary.


You're close on Chicago, which had 506 homicides in 2012, or a rate of 18.7 per 100,000. But you're way off on Mazatlan, which had 104 homicides in 2012, or 23 per 100,000.

Here are the homicide rates per 100,000 for the Top 10 Deadliest Cities in the U.S. in 2012:

1. Flint, Michigan: 64.9 
2. Detroit, Michigan: 54.6 
3. New Orleans, Louisiana: 53.5 
4. St. Louis, Missouri: 35.5 
5. Baltimore, Maryland: 35 
6. Birmingham, Alabama: 33.7 
7. Newark, New Jersey: 33.1 
7. Oakland, California: 33.1 
8. Baton Rouge, Louisiana: 28.9
9. Cleveland, Ohio: 24.6 
10. Memphis, Tennessee: 24.1 

As you probably noticed, there are actually 11 cities on that list, because Newark and Oakland tied for 7th place.

Mexico, on the other hand, has 35 cities that have over 24.1 homicides per 100,000 citizens, so I'm not going to take the time to list them all! But here are Mexico's top 10:

Top 10 Deadliest Cities in Mexico 2012 (with a population of over 100,000)

1. Acapulco de Juárez, Guerrero: 142.88 
2. Lerdo, Durango: 96.72 
3. Nuevo Laredo, Tamaulipas: 72.85
4. Cuernavaca, Morelos: 72.66 
5. Torreon, Coahuila: 69.53
6. Tecomán, Colima: 65.79
7. Zihuatanejo de Azueta, Guerrero: 64.70
8. Iguala de la Independencia, Guerrero: 64.08
9. Culiacánc, Sinaloa: 62.06
10. Navolato, Sinaloa: 61.22



RVGRINGO said:


> So, I guess we will not be seeing you in Mexico soon.





Isla Verde said:


> Unless he can find a city with a lower murder rate than Chicago's.


There are over 100 Mexican cities that have murder rates lower than Chicago's, so I think it's safe to say that Longford has plenty of choices!


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## tepetapan

[excised]
...... if you what to compare apples to apples, you should use Cook County to compare with Mazatlan.


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## Marishka

tepetapan said:


> [excised]
> ...... if you what to compare apples to apples, you should use Cook County to compare with Mazatlan.


I don't get it. How would comparing a city to a county be an apples-to-apples comparison?


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## tepetapan

Marishka said:


> I don't get it. How would comparing a city to a county be an apples-to-apples comparison?


 I feel that Mazatlan is covering the entire municipality , like a county. Not every thing that happened there happened in the city proper but within the municipality. 
Most the US has counties, Mexico has municipalities. sure it is a a bit out there but I was responding to Longford.


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## Marishka

tepetapan said:


> I feel that Mazatlan is covering the entire municipality , like a county. Not every thing that happened there happened in the city proper but within the municipality.
> Most the US has counties, Mexico has municipalities. sure it is a a bit out there but I was responding to Longford.


If you did it that way, the numbers for Cook County would no doubt be lower than for Chicago alone. 

The latest figures I could find for Cook County were for 2009. The homicide rate for the whole county was 10.5 per 100,000, while the homicide rate for Chicago that year was 16.1 per 100,000. 

I think it's important to keep in mind that crime in big cities everywhere varies greatly from neighborhood to neighborhood. For instance, in Chicago:


> Murder statistics show huge disparities between Chicago’s neighborhoods. Two-thirds of all murders take place in just 25 of Chicago’s 77 community areas, according to a database compiled by the Chicago Tribune’s RedEye. With a combined population of 750,000, these South and West side neighborhoods are 83 percent black and 12 percent Hispanic. A third of the people in these areas live below the federal poverty level. These neighborhoods are on pace to finish the year with 49 homicides for every 100,000 people.
> 
> Meanwhile, through the end of September, not a single person had been murdered this year in 19 of Chicago’s community areas. With a total population of nearly half a million, these neighborhoods — mostly concentrated on the North Side and the city’s central area — are 60 percent white, with a poverty rate of 11 percent.


There are online sites that list crimes by neighborhood for cities in the U.S., making it easy for someone looking for housing to pick a safe neighborhood. Are there any sites like that for cities in Mexico?


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## vantexan

Marishka said:


> No te preocupes. I can think of all kinds of risky things I've done in my life that had a happy ending. Like marrying my husband only 6 weeks after we met.  That was 39 years ago and we're still very happy together, but I'd never recommend that others follow my example!
> 
> Likewise, you may have lucked out and gotten an absolutely great deal on your apartment. I just thought people reading this thread should know what can happen if you rent something without actually checking it out in person.
> 
> I'm looking forward to reading your posts from San Miguel, vantexan. How soon are you moving there?


My fiancée reconnected with me on Facebook 4 months ago, 31 years after we dated in college. So I guess we sorta followed your example! We're moving to SMA Oct. 1st. Thanks for the good tips, will use them on the next rental if this doesn't work out.


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## Marishka

vantexan said:


> My fiancée reconnected with me on Facebook 4 months ago, 31 years after we dated in college. So I guess we sorta followed your example! We're moving to SMA Oct. 1st. Thanks for the good tips, will use them on the next rental if this doesn't work out.


Awww, that's so sweet. I hope you two will have many happy years together. 

You will post about your adventures in San Miguel, won't you?:fingerscrossed:


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## vantexan

citlali said:


> A friend of mine asked me to find a place for her for 450 dollars, in a specific area, I saw a few nice 2 bedrooms casitas and I also saw a nice house in a bad location, and several others near evntos, others that did not have any security and so on. You can get lucky renting over the internet but I sure would not do it unless it was a short term rental and ther were not strings attached. If you can get out easily bo big deal,,
> San Miguel is a pretty town but way far away from the towns you were looking into , actually quite the oposite. Always interesting to see what people thik they want and where they end up.
> Enjoy San Miguel


Thanks, SMA was always on my radar, but have found over the years on several forums that some react very negatively to it. Feel it's Disneyfied, too many expats, not the real Mexico, etc. I was under the impression I'd have to pay $600+ for an apartment in San Miguel so hoped to find an affordable alternative. I'm not expecting perfection but if it's decent and we can get along comfortably I'll be happy with it. And of course my fiancée had never even considered Mexico until I started telling her about it 4 months ago. She's excited about it, more so because San Miguel seems like a good compromise.


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## vantexan

Marishka said:


> Awww, that's so sweet. I hope you two will have many happy years together.
> 
> You will post about your adventures in San Miguel, won't you?:fingerscrossed:


Of course!


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## GARYJ65

vantexan said:


> Of course!


More of a reason for me to offer my assistance in this adventure!


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## Longford

Over the years, I've observed that the people most critical about San Miguel de Allende are those who are jealous they're not living there. The claims of expat population, by the critics, are off the wall idiotic ... IMHO. And ... the frequency of visits by people from the USA has declined markedly in the past few years. First and foremost ... SMA is a Mexican community and probably 90+ percent of tourism is national in nature, not foreign. It may not be the spot for everyone, but I think it compares favorably with most if not all of the other expat enclaves in Mexico.


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## Longford

Marishka said:


> There are over 100 Mexican cities that have murder rates lower than Chicago's, so I think it's safe to say that Longford has plenty of choices!


1. The Mexican statistics aren't reliably categorized, collected. 

2. Go ahead, join the snarky crowd around here. Ignorance is bliss! 

3. People choose places based on their own criteria, not yours ... or that of others. That's something not everyone understands.

:yo:


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## Hound Dog

_


Longford said:



Over the years, I've observed that the people most critical about San Miguel de Allende are those who are jealous they're not living there. The claims of expat population, by the critics, are off the wall idiotic ... IMHO. And ... the frequency of visits by people from the USA has declined markedly in the past few years. First and foremost ... SMA is a Mexican community and probably 90+ percent of tourism is national in nature, not foreign. It may not be the spot for everyone, but I think it compares favorably with most if not all of the other expat enclaves in Mexico.

Click to expand...

_The same is true of Ajijic at Lake Chapala. Many who live in other communities at what is generally known as "Lakeside", a community encompassing Chapala and Jocotepec municipalities and a little bit of Poncitlan Municipality, love to make fun on the Ajijic Delegación as a "****** ghetto" but that is pure envy because Ajijic is such a thriving and pleasant, often leafy and tranquil community in comparison to most other areas at "Lakeside". Housing in Ajijic is also a bit more expensive generally speaking so that pushes the envy button even harder. The fact is that Ajijic is also a Mexican community where only a small percentage of residents of the delegación are expats and even fewer are full-time expat residents. Almost all of the of the palatial estates fronting the lake here are owned by wealthy Tapatios (Guadalajarans) with a sprinkling of some cartel bosses here and there while a significant number of expats live in somewhat isolated gated hillside enclaves or are scattered here and there about the village. Tourists are also mainly Tapatios escaping the big city on weekends and looking for wide beaches upon which to blast car radios and dispose of their post-picnic basura.

I don´t know about San Miguel, but as for living in Ajijic, there is an up side to living in a community with a significant expat component . There is a wide variety of "exotic"(for Mexico) foodstuffs available in Ajijic that one cannot find just about anywhere in this country so when the Dawgmobile is cranked up to escape to Chiapas and get away from the expat influence for a while, the trunk is normally filled with all sorts of food items one cannot find in Chiapas at any price. On the other hand, the variety of great, locally grown vegetables in Chiapas brought down from nearby mountain milpas beats the hell out of what´s available anywhere almost anytime at Lakeside where most fruits and vegetables sold in stores or tianguis and municipal markets are commercial farm products straight from corporate farms in places like Guanajuato and Puebla States via the Guadalajara abastos. 

Variety is the spice of life.


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## Marishka

Longford said:


> 1. The Mexican statistics aren't reliably categorized, collected.
> 
> 2. Go ahead, join the snarky crowd around here. Ignorance is bliss!
> 
> 3. People choose places based on their own criteria, not yours ... or that of others. That's something not everyone understands.
> 
> :yo:


Longford, I'm well aware that crime is vastly underreported in Mexico. I also know that "the disappeared" aren't included in those homicide totals. But homicide numbers are the most accurate of any crime statistics in Mexico. And it's probably reasonable to assume that any city with a high homicide rate also has high numbers for other types of crime.

I'm sure we all agree that people choose places based on their own criteria. 

For example, you wrote: "because of the high rates of crime/homicide and terrorist acts in Mazatlan and/ or elsewhere in the state of Sinaloa, if this were a move I was considering in the near future I'd likely delete Mazatlan from any list of possibilities."

That's perfectly understandable. But you also wrote in the recent past: "The next place I'll likely live in Mexico is on the list which follows ... in order of current preference / enjoyability / anticipated lifestyle: 

Zacatecas (the city)
Chilapa, Guerrero
Tlaxcala (the city)
Mexico City
Acapulco"

So that leaves me wondering why you would delete Mazatlán from your list, on account of its "high rates of crime/homicide," but keep Acapulco, which has the highest rate of homicides in the country (over 6 times as many as Mazatlán) and Zacatecas, where the homicide rate is almost twice as high as Mazatlán's. 

Could you explain your reasoning on that?


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## dcraig

A lot of good, informative replies, but sooo many "off topic" as well. And wondering why no mention of Manzanillo, it seemed nice a few years ago, maybe just not many resident expats? A lot of nob familiar business's, WalMart, and now Sams Club, Home Depot, Burger King, Starbucks, Office Depot etc etc, and not over run with tourists.


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## Marishka

Hound Dog said:


> I don´t know about San Miguel, but as for living in Ajijic, there is an up side to living in a community with a significant expat component . There is a wide variety of "exotic"(for Mexico) foodstuffs available in Ajijic that one cannot find just about anywhere in this country so when the Dawgmobile is cranked up to escape to Chiapas and get away from the expat influence for a while, the trunk is normally filled with all sorts of food items one cannot find in Chiapas at any price.


That's interesting. What can you buy in Ajijic that can't be bought elsewhere in Mexico?

You've also mentioned before that your Spanish always noticeably improves during your stays in San Cristóbal de las Casas. What about Chapala? English isn't spoken as much there as in Ajijic, is it? Is that a good place to live for someone who wants to improve their Spanish?


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## RVGRINGO

Many imported items from all over the world are available between Chapala and Ajijic, in stores actually located in San Antonio Tlayacapan; all part of the Municipalidad de Chapala.
We lived in Ajijic from 2001 to 2004, then moved to Chapala. There seems little, if any difference in the language situation, but Chapala is a much more complete town for shopping, while Ajijic has the majority of the restaurants catering to expat tastes and Chapala restaurants tend to be more traditional in their menu selections and to lean toward more seafood selections.


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## Hound Dog

RV has a good point. I should have written that many "exotic" foods (for Mexico) sometimes difficult, often impossible to find in most of Mexico are available at variious retail food outlets located within the Chapala Municipality including the pueblos of Chapala, San Antonio Tlayacapan and Ajijic. That´s because some astute retailers have realized that the expat community, mostly American NOBBERS from the U.S. and Canada will buy certain food items for a premium at retail that the Mexican community may disdain or for which the Mexican community will show only modest demand. The significant buying power of the large expat community and their willingness to pay a premium for certain foods makes it feasible to incur the costs of importing certain items not in high demand in the Mexican community because this unusual expat market segment is resident here year round. The Chapala Municipality is still lacking in a variety of "exotic" food items including foods from the Far and Near East to the Indian Subcontinent to Northern and Sub-Sahara Africa and parts of Europe the Caribbean and South America among other places. For this reason, when we make one of our periodic trips to visit family in my wife´s native France, we must pig out on fabulous seafood from the North Atlantic to the Mediterranean, impossibly delicious French cheeses of endless variety and great North African food prepared by the many North African residents of the country. We can´t go too often for fear of clogged arteries from cheeses among other delicacies and iodine poisionning from excessive consumption of seafood and, anyway, who would leave the superb Lake Chapala climate for the miserable climate of France much of the year.


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## DennyDaddy

.
They are starting to think about their retirement, and looking for places in Mexico, and would like to know, where on either coast of Mexico is the largest population of English speaking expats, both year round or even just seasonal. Only interested in coastal, beachfront cities, towns, area's etc, not inland locations. If you can provide approx. numbers, great, but know that would probably only be an estimated guess, they are planning on spending a few months somewhere this winter to see how they like it. They have visited several area's as tourists but never really with retirement in mind until lately. Much Gracias[/QUOTE]
.............................................
Hello

You could have them look into Paurto Panasco on the Sea of Cortez. Has good medical, English speaking doctors, and most Mexicans you have to deal with speak English, Has a good tourist population all year around, and has a good expat population.

Is a short drive up the new Mexacian Coastal Hyway up to Yuma, Az for hospitals and doctors and shopping. Also the other road out of town will bring you to the Phoenix and Tucson area.

You can find here condos, gated housing areas, or expats spread out with the Mexican population like where we live.

It's one of the safest areas in Mexico for cartels or street gangs, or crimes in general. Has a good stright police dept., and a Navy base with a big detachment of highly trained Mexican marines, all patrol the town and keep crimes to a very low level.

Sure, summer can be hot and muggy, but a/c and most places you go to have a/c. We left 1st of Aug to visit family in the states and ya can get use to summers there. In fact, it's the summer vacation place for Arizonas.

Paurto Panasko Aka Rocky Point is a great place to call home as we do. We are surrounded where we live with Mexican families, and find that just as pleasant as being in a ****** area. 

It has everything anyone would want in living in Mexico! Has a big resort and condo area, gated communes, large Mexican residential areas, shopping, and good cheap mediacal, closeness to US on safe hyways, and a good size expat area if that's what you want.

Love being on the ocean and get cool breezes all thru the summer, and has a new remolded Malecon ocean walk and cool stores and lots of fish markets there.....ita great place where all gather and walk in summer eaveings with lots of street venders,
and just hand out with a Margareta!

DD


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## chicois8

DennyDanny writes:
"Paurto Panasko Aka Rocky Point is a great place to call home as we do."

Since you call this place home why not spell it correctly? *Puerto Penasco*......


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## Marishka

chicois8 said:


> DennyDanny writes:
> "Paurto Panasko Aka Rocky Point is a great place to call home as we do."
> 
> Since you call this place home why not spell it correctly? *Puerto Penasco*......


If we're going to be totally correct, we'll have to spell it like this: Puerto Peñasco

For all our Spanish students, here's some interesting information about the ñ:

Where did the Ñ come from?


----------



## Isla Verde

Marishka said:


> If we're going to be totally correct, we'll have to spell it like this: Puerto Peñasco
> 
> For all our Spanish students, here's some interesting information about the ñ:
> 
> Where did the Ñ come from?


Good point, Marishka. As a former Spanish teacher, I should have caught that spelling mistake!


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## Isla Verde

[This post is a contribution from Marishka, not Isla Verde.]

I subscribe to _Overseas Retirement Letter_, and they just recently rated 21 retirement destinations around the world.

Puerto Vallarta was the most fully appointed beach lifestyle option on their list. They gave it an A for infrastructure, English spoken and entertainment options, a B for local safety, existing expat community, local environmental conditions, residency options, healthcare, country infrastructure and real estate, and a C for cost of living and taxes.

I don't know how many expats live there, but I would think there would be a heck of a lot more snowbirds than full-timers there, due to the climate.


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## dcraig

Isla Verde said:


> [This post is a contribution from Marishka, not Isla Verde.]
> 
> I subscribe to _Overseas Retirement Letter_, and they just recently rated 21 retirement destinations around the world.
> 
> Puerto Vallarta was the most fully appointed beach lifestyle option on their list. They gave it an A for infrastructure, English spoken and entertainment options, a B for local safety, existing expat community, local environmental conditions, residency options, healthcare, country infrastructure and real estate, and a C for cost of living and taxes.
> 
> I don't know how many expats live there, but I would think there would be a heck of a lot more snowbirds than full-timers there, due to the climate.


Was this list from "International Living" ? I subscribe and don't remember seeing that list, either or, could you maybe cut/paste the list for all to see.
And question to moderators, why do you let postings get so far OFF TOPIC, without stepping in? This topic is supposed to be, where is the largest expat population. . A lot of postings /replies have nothing to do with the original question, and would maybe be more suited for a PM


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## Hound Dog

Well! Since you guys are nitpicking the spelling of Puerto Peñasco AKA the Arizona Coast, be advised that, unlike a characteristic of that pueblo pointed out by the OP who seems to live there, there can be no "ocean front" malecon at Puerto Peñasco but only a "sea front" malecon as Puerto Peñasco or Rocky Point does not front an ocean but the The Sea of Cortez or Gulf of California, as you prefer but that body of water is actually a large estuary draining the Colorado River.


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## Isla Verde

Hound Dog said:


> Well! Since you guys are nitpicking the spelling of Puerto Peñasco AKA the Arizona Coast, be advised that, unlike a characteristic of that pueblo pointed out by the OP who seems to live there, there can be no "ocean front" malecon at Puerto Peñasco but only a "sea front" malecon as Puerto Peñasco or Rocky Point does not front an ocean but the The Sea of Cortez or Gulf of California, as you prefer but that body of water is actually a large estuary draining the Colorado River.



Thank you, Hound Dog, for that clarification of geographic nomenclature!


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## DennyDaddy

chicois8 said:


> DennyDanny writes:
> "Paurto Panasko Aka Rocky Point is a great place to call home as we do."
> 
> Since you call this place home why not spell it correctly? Puerto Penasco......


Maybe you're right.....but I don't care how I spell it. ..and I do not proof read my stuff
Now..nix pick this!

DD


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## dcraig

*Off topic*

Incase this was missed in my last post:
And question to moderators, why do you let postings get so far OFF TOPIC, without stepping in? This topic is supposed to be, where is the largest expat population. . A lot of postings /replies have nothing to do with the original question, and would maybe be more suited for a PM, or even a new topic.


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## DennyDaddy

Hound Dog said:


> Well! Since you guys are nitpicking the spelling of Puerto Peñasco AKA the Arizona Coast, be advised that, unlike a characteristic of that pueblo pointed out by the OP who seems to live there, there can be no "ocean front" malecon at Puerto Peñasco but only a "sea front" malecon as Puerto Peñasco or Rocky Point does not front an ocean but the The Sea of Cortez or Gulf of California, as you prefer but that body of water is actually a large estuary draining the Colorado River.


Introduction (from Wikipedia):	Though generally described as several 'separate' oceans, these waters comprise one global, interconnected body of salt water sometimes referred to as the World Ocean or global ocean.	

A sea generally refers to a large body of salt water, but the term is used in other contexts as well. Most commonly, it means a large expanse of saline water connected with an ocean, and is commonly used as a synonym for ocean.

DD


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## gringotim

dcraig said:


> Incase this was missed in my last post:
> And question to moderators, why do you let postings get so far OFF TOPIC, without stepping in? This topic is supposed to be, where is the largest expat population. . A lot of postings /replies have nothing to do with the original question, and would maybe be more suited for a PM, or even a new topic.


Hey D, Why waste your breath, don't you remember when we used to post on the Canada forum, topics were always going OFF TOPIC, and we both know who some of the most frequent offenders were, its like letting the fox guard the henhouse. But back to the topic in question, I have heard it may only be around 500 full time expats, so know its not the largest expat population, but as you know, Manzanillo has everything an English speaking expat would want, including, still half decent prices for homes/condos. Way lowerr than PV or Maz etc. Manzanillo is still on our list, even more so now that we realize Salinas Equador is so far away from family in BC Canada, not easy to get to, and very expensive flights, and with everyone getting older, being able to go home in an emergency, or even to visit, or have people come visit us, is becoming more important. Just make sure they know not to rush into a purchase, no matter where it is.


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## TundraGreen

dcraig said:


> Incase this was missed in my last post:
> And question to moderators, why do you let postings get so far OFF TOPIC, without stepping in? This topic is supposed to be, where is the largest expat population. . A lot of postings /replies have nothing to do with the original question, and would maybe be more suited for a PM, or even a new topic.


I must have missed the part of the job description that says Moderators have to keep threads on topic. Moderators are volunteers that are charged with enforcing the Rules (See Rules at the top of every page). Nowhere in the rules does it say that threads have to stay on topic. 

Some people find it interesting when threads drift. Others are annoyed. Often, Moderators will split threads or otherwise intervene to help keep threads organized but it is not really part of the job description.

PS There is a rule, #5, against discussing Moderator actions. It is intended to prevent people from using the Forum to appeal decisions. That should be done offline. An overly sensitive Moderator, might find your post a violation of Rule 5. Fortunately, neither of the Mexico moderators are very sensitive.


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## gringotim

TundraGreen said:


> I must have missed the part of the job description that says Moderators have to keep threads on topic. Moderators are volunteers that are charged with enforcing the Rules (See Rules at the top of every page). Nowhere in the rules does it say that threads have to stay on topic.
> 
> Some people find it interesting when threads drift. Others are annoyed. Often, Moderators will split threads or otherwise intervene to help keep threads organized but it is not really part of the job description.
> 
> PS There is a rule, #5, against discussing Moderator actions. It is intended to prevent people from using the Forum to appeal decisions. That should be done offline. An overly sensitive Moderator, might find your post a violation of Rule 5. Fortunately, neither of the Mexico moderators are very sensitive.


I just remember having a moderator threaten posters to stop posting arguements between each other when it wasn't related to the topic at hand, to keep on topic and discuss non topic subject thru a pm or start a new thread or else they would close the topic to further postings, and delete ones that where off topic. But that could have been on the Canada forum, don't remember, but it's all good.


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## Isla Verde

TundraGreen said:


> PS There is a rule, #5, against discussing Moderator actions. It is intended to prevent people from using the Forum to appeal decisions. That should be done offline. An overly sensitive Moderator, might find your post a violation of Rule 5. Fortunately, neither of the Mexico moderators are very sensitive.


Please speak for yourself, fellow Mexico moderator .


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## DennyDaddy

[QUOTE="PanamaJack;134495

PanamaJack......

Thanks for the support. I just wish posters would just focus on substance, not nic picking on spelling, & weather a sea is an ocean, or other simple mistakes posters make.

That could cause posters to not post, as who wants to be ran thru the coals, over weather an e should be an a, or other "simple" mistakes.

This is a great form, not a grammer or geo class.

DD


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## Longford

Thread-drift is natural, for just about every forum. This or any other. Most of the time it's sincere discussions which cause the drift. Relatively few times on this forum it may be someone just playing with us, diverting us from the issue at hand. My observation has been that the Moderators do a good job of separating threads which get too far off topic ... into a discusson of their/its own. We can learn a lot from the _drifting_, however. Discussions are fluid and one comment leads to another which leads us in a different way. I've always thought it was the person who originated a discussion who has a responsibility for bring things back full circle, when the drifting gets too afar ... doing so gently. Otherwise, it's probably time for a Moderator to get involved.


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## Nils

Check out Puerto Vallarta, Playa del Carmen, Cancun, Cabo, La Paz


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## Isla Verde

Nils said:


> Check out Puerto Vallarta, Playa del Carmen, Cancun, Cabo, La Paz


I've never been to any of these places since I'm not a beach person. Do they all have large full-time expat populations?


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## citlali

Many sowbirds like any beach in Mexico but also full time expats.


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## DennyDaddy

Isla Verde said:


> I've never been to any of these places since I'm not a beach person. Do they all have large full-time expat populations?


Hello....

Paurto Penesco (oops) has a good sized expat population for its size. Plus its next to Arizona, and a 4 hour, or so trip, so it has a large tourest population and a large week end condo owner population. 

To some it may be the armpit of Mexico, but a lot of expats are just fine with that! But its growing fast, as now a major cruse line will home port one of its ships there. All has been approved by Mex gov and the pass ship line. Mexico has approved the money to start construction of the port. The little fishing port is growing up 

DD


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