# Electricity bill



## Shaalan (Sep 10, 2013)

Hi All,

I am new to Madrid. I received my second electricity bill. There is an item that I can not understand in the bill called "Potencia Facturada" it calculated as follows:

5.5 KW * number of days* 0.09 Euro/KW

I thought at the beginning that this item is my consumption for the period but the units as you see are KW not KWh. Also I found another two items based on KWh. The shocking is the "Potencia Facturada" item is almost half the bill value or 40%.

If anyone can explain I will be very grateful. 

Thanks


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Hi, the "potencia" is the maximum power for your contract. It means that you can use a maximum of 5.5 kW at any one time, otherwise it will trip and all the lights will go out (you can switch it back on in the box on the wall). 5.5 kW should be fine unless you have an electric oven, kettle, iron and radiators all on at once.

The lower your potencia, the less you pay for your electricity, both per unit and standing charge. Everything under 10 kW is on the TUR rate which is controlled by the government.


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## zenkarma (Feb 15, 2013)

The Potencia Facturada is the Kw 'tariff' you're on and is calculated as a 'standing charge'. In other words it's the 'tariff' in your case a 5.5Kw one calculated by the number of days supply.

The government recently changed this, upping the tariff standing charge and reducing the actual Kwh charge. In other words spanking low users of electricity by upping the standing charge and helping those higher Kwh users.

It's particularly hit second home owners who perhaps only use a couple of months electricity per year with disproportionately higher bills due to the 'standing charge' now accounting for the largest part of the annual electricity bill.

Yes it's not fair, but since when has the Spanish government ever done anything considered to be fair?


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## 90199 (Mar 21, 2010)

Ours is 4,4 costs €25.36 for 59 days. Unless you are using a huge amount of Electrical appliances, you should be able to get the potencia lowered. We are all electric and ours hardly ever trips the fuses.

Hope this helps……..


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## Shaalan (Sep 10, 2013)

Thanks a lot guys for your fast reply. So to make sure that I understood you correctly.

The 5.5KW is the maximum I can consume per day, right? so if my consumption is below 5.5kW I should be paying only the price of the 5.5KW right? I am checking this point because in the invoice, I have three items

1- 5.5KW *64 days*0.09 euro/KW
2- 363 KWh * 0.130 euro/KWh for the period from 6 Nov to 31 Dec
3- 59 KWh * 0.133 euro/KWh for the period from 31 Dec to 9 Jan

So does this mean that I had exceeded the 5.5KW per day and the other two items are the excess consumption or the 5.5KW per day here is paid in all situation and the two items are my normal consumption per month.


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## zenkarma (Feb 15, 2013)

Shaalan said:


> The 5.5KW is the maximum I can consume per day, right?


No.

5.5Kw is your potencia rating. It is essentially the total amount of 'power draw' you can have at any one time before you trip the fuses. In other words it's the total Kw draw of all appliances you can be using at any one time.

The lower the potencia rating (the lower the power draw) the cheaper the potencia standing charge and vice versa.



Shaalan said:


> 1- 5.5KW *64 days*0.09 euro/KW
> 2- 363 KWh * 0.130 euro/KWh for the period from 6 Nov to 31 Dec
> 3- 59 KWh * 0.133 euro/KWh for the period from 31 Dec to 9 Jan


1 is your 'potencia' rating and the standing charge per day amount of that rating.

2 is the total Kw use at €0.13 per Kwh

3 is the total Kw use at the increased rate of €0.133 Kwh


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## DesWalker (Mar 12, 2014)

Hi All,

My Potencia rating is also 5.5KW which I understand dictates the level of my Standing Charge. 

Reading the around the subject this Potencia seems one level too high for my 2 bed apartment recently purchased as a Repo from Sabadell (I am the first occupant although it was built back in 2008). I have no dishwasher or heating but do have (all newly installed in the last month) an electric hob, oven, microwave, washing machine, water heater, TV, ceiling fans and lower energy lights.

I think I've been put on this level by Endesa as a sort of default option seeing as this apartment has never had an occupier and so has never drawn electricity before. 

Has anybody tried to get their Potencia rating lowered and if so what did you do to convince your electricity company ?

Many thanks,

Des


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

DesWalker said:


> Hi All,
> 
> My Potencia rating is also 5.5KW which I understand dictates the level of my Standing Charge.
> 
> ...


As far as we were concerned we didn't have to convince them at all, just tell them that we wanted it changed


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## extranjero (Nov 16, 2012)

We upgraded from 3.3 to 5.75kw.we had to obtain a boletin and have some cables changed as they were only lighting quality.the work and boletin cost 600euros, and can cost a lot more.
Some put stronger fuses in to avoid tripping, but that is illegal and dangerous.


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

Just this week, I have been dealing with a Spanish electrician to get some upgrading work done (inc installing a new meter box to conform to current regulations) and a boletin issued to enable a friend who has inherited a house here to get the electricity contract changed into her name and the potencia upgraded. It's a very old contract, although the house was rewired in 2005 but by an English electrician and no boletin, hence the contract is still in at least the owner before last's name, could even be older than that for all I know.

The current potencia is only 1.5kw. The minimum potencia you can get with any new contract now is 3.45kw, which is what my friend wants to upgrade to. Before confirming that this would be sufficient, the electrician asked whether gas or electricity was used for cooking. In this case it is gas, so he said 3.45kw would be OK - meaning, I take it, that if she had an electric oven and hob she would need more.

As the OP has electric oven,hob, etc I'm not sure how much they would be able to reduce it from the current 5.5 kw.


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## kalohi (May 6, 2012)

Lynn R said:


> As the OP has electric oven,hob, etc I'm not sure how much they would be able to reduce it from the current 5.5 kw.


I was thinking the same thing. We have 4.4 contracted which we really need to increase because not infrequently the ICP cuts us off for passing the 4.4 limit. We have a gas hob and I have often thought that we could never have electric or else we'd end up in the dark every time I cook. Heating elements are are huge draw on electricity.


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## DesWalker (Mar 12, 2014)

Thanks for all the replies to my questions. The reason I thought I could get away with reducing my Potencia down to the next lowest level of 4.6 rather than my current level of 5.75 (not 5.5 as I incorrectly said above) was that Endesa's online usage calculator throws out this 4.6 level when I check all the boxes next to my appliances. But reading here it would appear I would be playing it way too close to the line by considering any reduction from 5.75.

Really interesting stuff. Up until yesterday I just thought these Potencia levels were a funny, cack-handed way of staggering levels of standing charge. Only now do I realise that they actually have some real-life consequences !

I am new to Spanish property ownership so it's all a learning experience. I am still very excited about my recent purchase of a property over there but there are times when I discover how fortunate we are in the UK, most notably when comparing the prices in supermarkets but now also that we can have every single appliance on in the house without giving it a second thought ! Not meant to be controversial as there are oh so many downsides to the UK too, just a statement of a few annoyances in Spain. I'm sure you guys know far more in addition )


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## stevelin (Apr 25, 2009)

It would also appear that you can only get certain potencia rates is certain areas. IE in Malaga its 10.395 for 3 phase and a couple of different rates for single phase. If you check Endesa web site they quote many different rates?


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## elisa31bcn (Jan 23, 2013)

I recently had my potencia reduced from 6.9 to 3.9 when someone perusing my electric bill commented that it seemed like a waste given the size of my flat, 60 sq. meters. So far no problems with usage, seems exactly the same, and hopefully my bill will show the effects.


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## DesWalker (Mar 12, 2014)

Thanks elisa,

My flat is roughly the same size. Would you mind listing the electric appliances you have installed. Excluding various low energy lights all I have is a water tank, ceramic hob, oven, extractor, microwave, washing machine, kettle and TV.

Thanks,

Des


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## elisa31bcn (Jan 23, 2013)

Roughly the same, water heater, stove top, microwave, washer, toaster, TV. No AC or central heater, just small oil space heater I use sparingly. And I´m not using 
everything at once, but I haven´t varied my routine since lowering the potencia. I´m hoping with the changes, and also the changes in the law which will go into effect in July, it will help lower the bill. I´ll see in the one at the end of the month what´s up.


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

elisa31bcn said:


> Roughly the same, water heater, stove top, microwave, washer, toaster, TV. No AC or central heater, just small oil space heater I use sparingly. And I´m not using
> everything at once, but I haven´t varied my routine since lowering the potencia. I´m hoping with the changes, and also the changes in the law which will go into effect in July, it will help lower the bill. I´ll see in the one at the end of the month what´s up.



What changes in the law are these?


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

snikpoh said:


> What changes in the law are these?


The replacement for the_ subasta_ (auction) system. Consumers will be able to pay the actual daily rate for the electricity they use, or opt for a flat rate fixed annually. It was supposed to change on 1 April but has been put back for a couple of months (presumably they need to install more "smart meters" which can calculate the daily rate).


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## rewdan (Feb 23, 2010)

I'm currently on a 2.3kw potencia which isn't enough, I believe that to get it raised I would need my installation inspected, can anyone confirm this? At the moment I have a bigger fuse that allows me to use more electricity, apparently common practise, but it sounds like this will change if I get a smart meter, is it possible to avoid this or will I have no choice.


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

rewdan said:


> I'm currently on a 2.3kw potencia which isn't enough, I believe that to get it raised I would need my installation inspected, can anyone confirm this? At the moment I have a bigger fuse that allows me to use more electricity, apparently common practise, but it sounds like this will change if I get a smart meter, is it possible to avoid this or will I have no choice.


I can confirm that you will need a boletin at least - this will show that your installation meets the current regulations and that it will be OK for the new, increased load. I think the minimum supply is now 3.75Kw



Alcalaina said:


> The replacement for the_ subasta_ (auction) system. Consumers will be able to pay the actual daily rate for the electricity they use, or opt for a flat rate fixed annually. It was supposed to change on 1 April but has been put back for a couple of months (presumably they need to install more "smart meters" which can calculate the daily rate).


How will this work then when, probably, 95% of the meters around here are still the old ones? What will happen to those on a 'fixed' contract that goes passed that date - I guess they don't get to choose.


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

rewdan said:


> I'm currently on a 2.3kw potencia which isn't enough, I believe that to get it raised I would need my installation inspected, can anyone confirm this? At the moment I have a bigger fuse that allows me to use more electricity, apparently common practise, but it sounds like this will change if I get a smart meter, is it possible to avoid this or will I have no choice.


I've been through this process myself and in the last week have been helping a friend who lives in the UK organise the same thing.

The electricity companies (Endesa certainly has) have had a rolling programme for some time to replace meters with the digital "smart" ones which are capable of being read remotely (although when mine was replaced in January 2013 the letter I received said that this capability would be used in the future but for the time being the meter would continue to be read bi-monthly). This will probably be accelerated now because of the new system for charging which is due to be introduced in July.

Yes, all the new meters do have an ICP incorporated, so your electricity will trip if you exceed the 2.2 potencia. To increase the potencia, you need to get a qualified electrician to inspect the installation, carry out any modifications that may be needed to bring it up to current regs, and issue a boletin. In my case, that cost a total of €890, and for my friend €420, so as Neptuno said earlier, the costs can vary widely depending on how much needs to be done. You then take the boletin to your electricity supplier and request the increase in potencia (and, if the actual contract is not in your name as opposed to just the bill, as was the case with both me and my friend), get a new contract in your own name.


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## extranjero (Nov 16, 2012)

rewdan said:


> I'm currently on a 2.3kw potencia which isn't enough, I believe that to get it raised I would need my installation inspected, can anyone confirm this? At the moment I have a bigger fuse that allows me to use more electricity, apparently common practise, but it sounds like this will change if I get a smart meter, is it possible to avoid this or will I have no choice.


It may be common practice to put in a stronger fuse, but it is illegal and potentially dangerous.
I believe the minimum potencia now is 5.75 kw, and , in time everyone will have this, or higher if they choose.


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

Alcalaina said:


> The replacement for the_ subasta_ (auction) system. Consumers will be able to pay the actual daily rate for the electricity they use, or opt for a flat rate fixed annually. It was supposed to change on 1 April but has been put back for a couple of months (presumably they need to install more "smart meters" which can calculate the daily rate).


I don't like the sound of this new system at all. How can anybody know what size of bill they might be facing at the end of each period, or check it to make sure the supplier is charging the right amount? As for opting for a fixed annual rate, call me cynical but I rather suspect it would be fixed on the high side, and if the actual wholesale price over the year worked out lower, the supplier would just pocket the difference.


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

extranjero said:


> It may be common practice to put in a stronger fuse, but it is illegal and potentially dangerous.
> I believe the minimum potencia now is 5.75 kw, and , in time everyone will have this, or higher if they choose.


No, it's 3.75Kw


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Lynn R said:


> I don't like the sound of this new system at all. How can anybody know what size of bill they might be facing at the end of each period, or check it to make sure the supplier is charging the right amount? As for opting for a fixed annual rate, call me cynical but I rather suspect it would be fixed on the high side, and if the actual wholesale price over the year worked out lower, the supplier would just pocket the difference.


Yes, they have said if you opt for the annual rate you will probably pay more. But paying the actual market rate hour by hour, which smart meters will enable, should lead to lower bills.

It's bad news for people who own homes here but only use them for short periods. The non-variable standing charges are going up, but they won't benefit from the lower price per unit used. This could lead to a situation where the standing charges are three times as much as the actual consumption. For holiday homes it's definitely worth switching to the lowest potencia and remembering not to put the kettle on while the oven's heating up!


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## extranjero (Nov 16, 2012)

snikpoh said:


> No, it's 3.75Kw


Well, here it is 5.75. 3.3 was only ever for holiday homes not residential.I would be very surprised if lowering the potencia to 3.3 would be allowed, since 5.5 will be needed when everyone has a smart meter.Then, all those with the illegal fuses will be in a mess,as they will only get the potencia they were originally contracted for. Lot of tripping !


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

extranjero said:


> Well, here it is 5.75. 3.3 was only ever for holiday homes not residential.I would be very surprised if lowering the potencia to 3.3 would be allowed, since 5.5 will be needed when everyone has a smart meter.Then, all those with the illegal fuses will be in a mess,as they will only get the potencia they were originally contracted for. Lot of tripping !


It is certainly 3.45 kw here, and not confined to holiday homes at all. As I said in my earlier post, the electrician I have been dealing with this past week confirmed that this would be sufficient so long as gas was being used for cooking, not electricity. 3.45kw is what I have myself, and I only changed my contract fairly recently. I use gas for cooking too - and I have a smart meter which was installed last year, so it just isn't true that 5.5kw is needed for those.

As to the illegal fuses, I agree with you on that point.


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## extranjero (Nov 16, 2012)

Possibly different requirements in different regions. I' m only going by what my supplier said!


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## rewdan (Feb 23, 2010)

I had an idea it was dodgy to up the fuse rating but it was done before I bought the house so it has always been the situation, I have checked and confirmed that there is no fire risk, the installation could easily handle a 100 amp load as the original owner , back in the 90's was a uk electrician, but he did it himself so there is no way it will conform to Spanish regs albeit being safe. If they install a smart meter without discussing it with me will I remain on the 2.3kw or will they up me?


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## extranjero (Nov 16, 2012)

rewdan said:


> I had an idea it was dodgy to up the fuse rating but it was done before I bought the house so it has always been the situation, I have checked and confirmed that there is no fire risk, the installation could easily handle a 100 amp load as the original owner , back in the 90's was a uk electrician, but he did it himself so there is no way it will conform to Spanish regs albeit being safe. If they install a smart meter without discussing it with me will I remain on the 2.3kw or will they up me?


I imagine you would have to pay for the boletin and any necessary work to be carried out


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## rewdan (Feb 23, 2010)

do you think they will just install the new meter and leave me on 2.3 kw?


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## extranjero (Nov 16, 2012)

rewdan said:


> do you think they will just install the new meter and leave me on 2.3 kw?


Why not ask your supplier? I would imagine you would want to be upgraded anyway


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## rewdan (Feb 23, 2010)

I would happily be upgraded but the original installation is not going to conform to present regs in spain as it was installed with uk cable and board. What I am trying to avoid is a house rewire that doesn't need one. Do you think that's possible?


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## extranjero (Nov 16, 2012)

rewdan said:


> I would happily be upgraded but the original installation is not going to conform to present regs in spain as it was installed with uk cable and board. What I am trying to avoid is a house rewire that doesn't need one. Do you think that's possible?


If it doesn't conform with regs then obviously you will need to have the boletin done, and any necessary work. Make sure your electrician has the qualifications approved by Iberdrola, or whoever, otherwise the boletin won' t be accepted.


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## rewdan (Feb 23, 2010)

will I just be left on 2.3kw if they fit the new smart meter without my knowing?


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

rewdan said:


> will I just be left on 2.3kw if they fit the new smart meter without my knowing?


It depends, I think, on whether your existing meter housing is capable of taking one of the new style meters. If it isn't, the supplier should contact you and tell you you have to change it - which would involve going down the boletin route. If the contract is not in your name, just the bills, it can get complicated as the supplier will only deal with the contract-holder when it comes to things affecting the supply. If people have bought resale properties it's very common for only the bills to have been changed into the new owner's name. I've met several people who have sworn blind that "our lawyer/estate agent dealt with all that, they got the contract put in my name and we didn't need one of those bulletin thingies" - until I've pointed out the different name at the top right hand corner of the bill!


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## rewdan (Feb 23, 2010)

I have just has a look at my bills and mine is the only name on them so I think it's in my name, I am still in touch with the original owner of the house as well. My meter is in a purpose built Casita with a few other meters so that won't be a problem. The thing is I would rather leave things as they are, but it sounds like they will change me to a smart meter without my input. Is this the case?


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

rewdan said:


> I have just has a look at my bills and mine is the only name on them so I think it's in my name, I am still in touch with the original owner of the house as well. My meter is in a purpose built Casita with a few other meters so that won't be a problem. The thing is I would rather leave things as they are, but it sounds like they will change me to a smart meter without my input. Is this the case?


The plan is certainly to have everyone on a smart meter - eventually. A previous post suggested that it MUST be done by July but this is simply impossible!

Given that this is an EU directive, then your supplier will want to do whether you agree or not.

As to the potencia, then I suspect they will take this opportunity to get you on to the minimum tariff (3.45Kw) at the same time. This will involve cost and a bolletin which, in your case, WILL require a rewire as it sounds as though you have had an English person wire it incorrectly for Spain.


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## rewdan (Feb 23, 2010)

The wiring was done by the previous owner, he built the house from scratch and as he was and English electrician, did the wiring himself as he would have in England! It's perfectly safe, however I don't think the Spanish use twin and earth cables, they seem to use singles. The colours of the cables would be incorrect too but this could be overcome with sheathing.
Can they force me to have a re-wire? If I refuse would they terminate my supply?


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

extranjero said:


> Possibly different requirements in different regions. I' m only going by what my supplier said!


Maybe you're supplier was having you on?! The 3.3 kw rate is the lowest and the cheapest, and is available nationwide. Most of the pensioners and families on low incomes across the country are on it.


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## extranjero (Nov 16, 2012)

Alcalaina said:


> Maybe you're supplier was having you on?! The 3.3 kw rate is the lowest and the cheapest, and is available nationwide. Most of the pensioners and families on low incomes across the country are on it.


Daily life on 3.3 is a nightmare if you have several appliances on.I got fed up with juggling them so as not to trip.It sounds appropriate to me to make the minimum 5.75.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

extranjero said:


> Daily life on 3.3 is a nightmare if you have several appliances on.I got fed up with juggling them so as not to trip.It sounds appropriate to me to make the minimum 5.75.


We had 3.3 when we were only using our house as a holiday home, then when we moved here permanently, upgraded to 4.6 which is plenty. We have electric radiators on during the winter and it never trips. If you have to watch your pennies, you can easily manage with 3.3 kw. As I said before, millions of people do!


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

extranjero said:


> Daily life on 3.3 is a nightmare if you have several appliances on.I got fed up with juggling them so as not to trip.It sounds appropriate to me to make the minimum 5.75.


In just over a year since my ICP was fitted, with a 3.45kw potencia our electricity has tripped exactly twice - both times when my OH unthinkingly put the kettle on whilst I was using my 2000w hairdryer. As we use gas for all our cooking and 95% of our heating, it really isn't a problem.

Making 5.75 the minimum would cause severe hardship for the millions of Spanish households who don't have houses and especially kitchens full of electrical appliances. There are many among my neighbours whose only cooking facility is a 2 ring table top gas hob, what we would think of as a camping stove, and they have no heating at all. Why should they be forced to pay high standing charges for a potencia they just don't need, they have enough problems already. It will never happen.


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## moonman (Oct 1, 2012)

i am not in spain at the moment, going over next week. i have had an email from a friend of mine and he has told me that a lot of people have been fined for not having the icp boxes installed when they were told to get them a few years ago. has anyone any info this is in the fuengirola/los boliches/torreblanca of costa del sol..


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

moonman said:


> i am not in spain at the moment, going over next week. i have had an email from a friend of mine and he has told me that a lot of people have been fined for not having the icp boxes installed when they were told to get them a few years ago. has anyone any info this is in the fuengirola/los boliches/torreblanca of costa del sol..


The ICP is not a box but is actually just a breaker (fuse).

It is true that if you have been told to get one and have not, then you could be fined.


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## Tapas (Jul 13, 2012)

Anyone knows, why Spain has this weird "potencia" system in place? 

Why not just billing by actual consumed amount like it is done in other countries? Any other EU country having this billing logic??


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

Tapas said:


> Anyone knows, why Spain has this weird "potencia" system in place?
> 
> Why not just billing by actual consumed amount like it is done in other countries? Any other EU country having this billing logic??


I'm not sure I understand. When we were in the UK, the system was just the same - we paid a standing charge just like we do here.


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## moonman (Oct 1, 2012)

in ireland the normal house/apt . are given a level of 6.3 kw. if one had say a very large 7 or 8 bed mansion the allowence is 7,6 but you pay a bigger standing/meter charge.


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## Tapas (Jul 13, 2012)

Ah, ok, then. I am not from UK originally, just lived there for some period of time recently and did not bother about electricity charges as company paid it


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## extranjero (Nov 16, 2012)

snikpoh said:


> The ICP is not a box but is actually just a breaker (fuse).
> 
> It is true that if you have been told to get one and have not, then you could be fined.


The plan is for every property to have a Smart meter, which has an ICP incorporated in it, so I don't think the Electricity companies will bother checking up.


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