# Hidden Side of Canadian Immigrants & Jobs



## NatureFairy (Sep 8, 2010)

A European-based professional trying in vain to be hired in Canada posted this & I thought it would be worth it to share this with the potential expats here, as it gives a more realistic, balanced view of the situation for a large proportion of immigrants, so that people won't develop unreallistic expectations. 

Taxi Driver Syndrome by Jeffrey G. Reitz - The Literary Review of Canada

This really confirms what I've been hearing, except that the article sort of contradicts itself by stating that immigrants still technically have a better chance, so technically, they're still better off despite driving taxis with a Bachelor's degree. Also, they're wrong about the racial issue; I've lately spoken to 3 Europeans & 2 Americans who have the same difficulty.

Undoubtedly, if you're lucky to have a solid offer, many immigrants, particularly Irish I notice, do quite well. But for a large portion, it seems it's not worth it. Too many try for Vancouver (increasing competition in an already expensive city that contends with foreign investors) thus making it like New York, or worse.

What do people here think?


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## Freddy_uk (Feb 11, 2012)

As an engineer Im finding it difficult. Everyone wants peng but you can't get this without 1yr as an engineer in Canada. Im visiting later this month so hopefully convince someone Im worth the risk.


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## NatureFairy (Sep 8, 2010)

Hey Freddy,

Thanks for responding. What part of Canada are you looking at? 

Yes, it's more difficult to secure work than expats think, and even you having trouble as an engineer tells me lots. You're always hearing that engineers are needed everywhere!

I've no idea WHY the Canadian govt let in all these immigrants & encourages more to come when they're only needed to fill low-paying jobs that should go to native Canadians who actually need them. :confused2: 

I've been doing my research for awhile now, & I don't think they need immigrants as much as people think. Sure there are a few who will luck out in finding jobs in certain skills, but for the rest, when people get there all they hear is that they need Canadian certification + experience! Obviously, they don't want immigrants _that much._

It's funny how the article states that the govt set up orgs to assist immigrants ....I'm guessing immigrants can't find work there either!  

It probably doesn't help that so many want to move to Vancouver or Toronto.


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## Freddy_uk (Feb 11, 2012)

Well I'm looking at Alberta as that's were i have started the process to licensed as an engineer, but equally any province would be fine. You have to focus your efforts a little if only to reduce the number of job advertisements you read.

I have read and been told about doctors etc just driving taxis etc because the can't get their qualifications recognized. That is true, my wife's family in Canada know such immigrants.

I think some don't do their research and fly to Canada, enter on the points system and look for work. It's a funny system were someone with an engineering degree has enough points to enter as a fsw, but to work as an engineer has to then become licensed by the province.

The license is in too parts, engineer-in-training which determines if your qualifications are equivalent to Canada, or provisional license which determines if you have also had equivalent experience to that of a Canadian professional engineer. The problem is employers what the peng status, no immigrant can achieve this without first having one of the two licensing options I first mentioned and then getting an engineering job in Canada. So you can't get peng without finding work, and it's difficult to find work that's doesn't specifically say they want peng.

It's always going to be easier for an employer to hire a canadian.


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## Sirtravelot (Jul 20, 2011)

...Yeah, I'm just going to say what everyone is thinking: Canada is racist towards immigrants.

When I lived there there was a website that made it on the news discussing the issues with immigration. The big problem was 1. The weather causing immigrants to return to where they came from and 2. Highly educated people being turned down and being forced to drive taxis or minimum wage jobs.

You should have seen how quickly that website had been taken down.

Canada. Not even once.


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## NatureFairy (Sep 8, 2010)

You didn't read the article, did you? 

No, Canada IS NOT racist towards immigrants, & not everyone thinks that; some people actually bother to critically analyze a situation. European expats have the same trouble. I'm sick of the PC liberal sheep who throw the race card at every opportunity. 

Non-English speakers must learn English/French and at least TRY to adapt to Western values. Like someone else said on another thread here, Canada's allowed themselves to become pretty multicultural at a great deal of expense. Lots of different people living together often end up clashing....history is filled with examples of this. A good current one would be in Europe, where a small % of muslims demanding tolerance for their religious practices, plus their refusal to comply with Western law has led to massive crime, rape etc & triggered nationalist parties looking to preserve their nations against sharia.

And I hope you're not referring to Indians, as some of them do find success. Lately, Indian expats have been found to be guilty of massive fraud w.r.t. their qualifications & experience, so the govt taking a bit of precaution isn't unreasonable. And you'll notice the article I posted is STILL up, & in a Canadian publication, no less.

Expats on the whole are having difficulty, because of the trouble the article mentioned. The system is geared towards making expats -ALL EXPATS, even Europeans- dump their savings into the economy & stringing them along on a low paying job...this works for everyone because Canada gets educated people who will work hard to send their kids to school rather than return home, & educated immigrants are less likely to turn to crime.


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## Freddy_uk (Feb 11, 2012)

Sirtravelot said:


> ...Yeah, I'm just going to say what everyone is thinking: Canada is racist towards immigrants.
> 
> When I lived there there was a website that made it on the news discussing the issues with immigration. The big problem was 1. The weather causing immigrants to return to where they came from and 2. Highly educated people being turned down and being forced to drive taxis or minimum wage jobs.
> 
> ...


I wouldn't go so far as to say they are racist. They are protecting professional titles, sadly this makes it more difficult to find employment in those fields for immigrants. The flip side is you can have a country like the UK where it's much easier, but you can end up with people in skilled jobs that shouldn't be.

I'll get there eventually.


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## NatureFairy (Sep 8, 2010)

Sirtravelot said:


> ...Yeah, I'm just going to say what everyone is thinking: Canada is racist towards immigrants.
> 
> ...


If they're so racist towards non-euro immigrants (because immigrants could be whites too, don't you know) then why have they invited them to come over & spread out in their most popular cities (Vancouver, Toronto) for decades now? 

And many DO obtain good jobs, or at least their kids do. Like I said, all immigrants are lured to prop up the economy & make things easier for native Canadians. Even after the FSW guidelines are revised, I do think people from all backgrounds will STILL have a chance, providing they have lots of $$$$$$ to feed into the economy.


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## Sirtravelot (Jul 20, 2011)

NatureFairy said:


> You didn't read the article, did you?
> 
> No, Canada IS NOT racist towards immigrants, & not everyone thinks that; some people actually bother to critically analyze a situation. European expats have the same trouble. I'm sick of the PC liberal sheep who throw the race card at every opportunity.
> 
> ...


Sorry, my wording was not correct so I'll take it back. It's not racist, it's "discriminatory against immigrants". That counts towards Europeans and whites as much as any other race or nationality.

So what you are saying is that Canada gets expats to come over, buy a house, spend taxes, work a low paying job...and this works for everyone because Canada gets educated people who will work hard (are we talking about the doctors who turned into taxi drivers here?) and send their kids to school, rather than return home.

Not my particular experience, but I do know several Europeans who have returned home or plan to.


Bolded part: One particular case study was of a man of Indian background, yes. This was ten years ago and he was a man who was highly specialized in India.


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## NatureFairy (Sep 8, 2010)

> Not my particular experience, but I do know several Europeans who have returned home or plan to.


Yep, so do I, hence my rejection of the 'racist' label. 

On the Indian issue, yes, this has happened to many Indians as well. But their situation is a bit different, imo. If so many educated Indians leave India, the brain drain will affect the 900 million poor they have. What will happen to them, I wonder?

And yes, Canada benefits greatly from the money immigrants bring in. But only EDUCATED immigrants. Poor immigrants won't have much. If you can only get a low paying job but have the opportunity to send your kids to Canadian school so they'll be able to enter the job market, lots would take that offer, especially since Canadian life is relatively easy going.


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## Sirtravelot (Jul 20, 2011)

NatureFairy said:


> *If they're so racist towards non-euro immigrants (because immigrants could be whites too, don't you know) then why have they invited them to come over & spread out in their most popular cities (Vancouver, Toronto) for decades now? *
> 
> And many DO obtain good jobs, or at least their kids do. Like I said, all immigrants are lured to prop up the economy & make things easier for native Canadians. Even after the FSW guidelines are revised, I do think people from all backgrounds will STILL have a chance, providing they have lots of $$$$$$ to feed into the economy.


I know immigrants can be white, I'm a white European and I was beaten up on my first day of school because "I wasn't Canadian".

Bolded part: No idea why, maybe to invest their money? Anyone's welcome if they have money. However I do know there is growing resentment in other parts of Canada that immigrants are "taking over" and "threatening Canadian culture", all quotes which I have heard being said by Canadians. 

Not bolded parts: "Or at least their kids do" - Bingo! I have heard this one before. But let's step back a minute. Let's say these educated immigrants enter Canada, don't get recognized for their career, but say "Hey, that's fine, I'll work, give me all the jobs that Canadians don't want".

Fast forward a couple years. How exactly are the parents, who worked low-wage jobs, supposed to pay for their expensive children's college and university fees? Oh, the children have to go into debt and pay it off for the rest of their lives? Fantastic. Long live the Canadian dream.

I understand that Canada has to make money from immigration, and that's fine, but they also boast to be "obviously better than the USA, therefore the best country in the world" and that's where I disagree. Just my 2 cents.


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## Sirtravelot (Jul 20, 2011)

NatureFairy said:


> Yep, so do I, hence my rejection of the 'racist' label.
> 
> *On the Indian issue, yes, this has happened to many Indians as well. But their situation is a bit different, imo. If so many educated Indians leave India, the brain drain will affect the 900 million poor they have. What will happen to them, I wonder?
> *
> And yes, Canada benefits greatly from the money immigrants bring in. But only EDUCATED immigrants. Poor immigrants won't have much. If you can only get a low paying job but have the opportunity to send your kids to Canadian school so they'll be able to enter the job market, lots would take that offer, especially since Canadian life is relatively easy going.


Well in my case, I returned to the EU and have started studying in Scotland for FREE doing a degree that would put me at +$200,000 in debt had I stayed in Canada which would also take me 9 years to complete instead of 5. I could, in theory, go back to Canada after graduating, but knowing now what I learned of the way they treat professionals from outside the country, do I really want to risk it and go back and invest my money in there? Plus, see all that snow again . Not really!

Bold: But is that justified to refuse him to work as a doctor in the country that he chose to work in and live in?


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## NatureFairy (Sep 8, 2010)

> However I do know there is growing resentment in other parts of Canada that immigrants are "taking over" and "threatening Canadian culture", all quotes which I have heard being said by Canadians.


That happens everywhere & it's quite understandable as I explained in my previous post. Too many non-Western immigrants or even Western immigrants who threaten Canadian culture ISN'T a good thing. They must adapt. If a load of non-Africans settle in sub-Saharan Africa or a load of non-Japanese settle in Japan (which is about 90-something % ethnic Japanese), the same would be said. It's human nature, to preserve your own.
The same is being said over in the UK, where sharia courts have gone up & rape rate & harassment of gays have skyrocketed. Preservation is important.

Having said that, r.e.: 


> I know immigrants can be white, I'm a white European and I was beaten up on my first day of school because "I wasn't Canadian".


I am truly sorry about that, I don't support that sort of behaviour at all. I daresay that isn't the norm for Canadians, though. The new kid usually endures some harassment though, regardless of nationality.

I agree with you about the Canadian dream being exaggerated; you're not the only one with similar sentiments I've encountered. I was disappointed myself that the govt lies to people. 

But for many, it's a compromise. Which is why I posted this, in the hope of informing people so that they'll be aware of the reality rather than the dream. For me, if I can get a GOOD offer, I'll take it...I have zero intention of going over there & looking. Makes no sense. The reward for me would be a nation that speaks my native tongue & has a culture I like, with a good standard of living. Believe me if I could go somewhere else, I would. I'm looking at Chile which is dead easy to obtain citizenship, work permit etc, but is only useful if you're an entrepreneur or have connections.

So...one has to make compromises. It depends on how desperate one is. Lots of Irish for example, are finding Canada to be a blessing compared to their economy.


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## NatureFairy (Sep 8, 2010)

Sirtravelot said:


> Well in my case, I returned to the EU and have started studying in Scotland for FREE doing a degree that would put me at +$200,000 in debt had I stayed in Canada which would also take me 9 years to complete instead of 5. I could, in theory, go back to Canada after graduating, but knowing now what I learned of the way they treat professionals from outside the country, do I really want to risk it and go back and invest my money in there? Plus, see all that snow again . Not really!


Yikes!  *9 yrs & $200,000!* Crazy...It's always bloody expensive to study in a foreign nation. A 1 yr MSc in the UK will cost me about the same in my currency. I have a degree myself, but won't waste my time advancing right now...want to work & save money for now. 

No, it's not worth it, IMO. 



> Bold: But is that justified to refuse him to work as a doctor in the country that he chose to work in and live in?


No, THAT reason isn't something they care about anyway. But it's not the reason they refuse ppl like him work. I suppose they have a choice to hire whoever they please; it's the Canadian govt's fault for falsely advertising they need foreign doctors, IMO.

Hopefully, people will wise up & think seriously about whether it's worth it to make the move.


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## Sirtravelot (Jul 20, 2011)

NatureFairy said:


> That happens everywhere & it's quite understandable as I explained in my previous post. Too many non-Western immigrants or even Western immigrants who threaten Canadian culture ISN'T a good thing. They must adapt. If a load of non-Africans settle in sub-Saharan Africa or a load of non-Japanese settle in Japan (which is about 90-something % ethnic Japanese), the same would be said. It's human nature, to preserve your own.
> The same is being said over in the UK, where sharia courts have gone up & rape rate & harassment of gays have skyrocketed. Preservation is important.
> 
> Having said that, r.e.:
> ...


Well, that's just it. Feels a bit like false advertising, doesn't it?

I have a cousin who was crazy about Canada for years. He had read everything he could gets his hands on about Canada. For him, it was meant to be the land of Milk and Honey. Meanwhile we lived there, helped him out with his application, and as he we left to go back to the EU, he got the green light to move to Canada.

Result: He hates it and wants to go back. He had worked as an engineer in Amsterdam and London but was driving a lorry through Canada because it was the only job he could get. No amount of books had prepared him for that disappointment. Now he either plans on staying there to save money or moving back if he gets a job offer.


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## NatureFairy (Sep 8, 2010)

Indeed, it *is false advertising.* And the Canadian govt will continue to allow it as long as an influx of immigrants are beneficial to their economy.

Sorry to hear that about your cousin. It's good to get this info out in the open; the reason why I posted the article. Like I said, it depends on your luck and situation. To many Irish, Canada IS a land of milk & honey compared to Ireland right now, which is basically bankrupt.

For me, I need a nice, English-speaking nation, easy to make friends etc that needs my skills & where I can do volunteer work. England is out, Scotland is out, Ireland is definitely out, USA is the worst of the lot -bankrupt, corrupt, decreasing freedoms etc...

Where else can I try for but Canada? 

Hope it works out for your cousin. Perhaps he'd be better off in Europe...he's got no reason to work as a driver when he could get a proper job elsewhere.


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## Sirtravelot (Jul 20, 2011)

NatureFairy said:


> Indeed, it *is false advertising.* And the Canadian govt will continue to allow it as long as an influx of immigrants are beneficial to their economy.
> 
> Sorry to hear that about your cousin. It's good to get this info out in the open; the reason why I posted the article. Like I said, it depends on your luck and situation. To many Irish, Canada IS a land of milk & honey compared to Ireland right now, which is basically bankrupt.
> 
> ...


Well, that's the thing, he wants to go back home to Portugal with his family but engineers are either earning peanuts or can't find work.

Well you know, I'm not British, but I find the Scottish to be very nice. The weather here, however, is awful. Canada is a bit similar I suppose, weather can be pretty bad, but the people can be nice, depends where you live in Canada, really.


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## headzred (Mar 20, 2012)

I realize that a lot of my future friends on me, and I know it won't be easy. However, i think if the attitude of Canada as a whole is that the only value of immigrants is the money they initially bring in, then the country is sadly mistaken. The beauty if the country lies not in its economics, geography, or scenery, but in its people. Making it hard or impossible for highly skilled and knowledgeable immigrants to find meaningful work means that Canada is importing their own brain drain. Doesn't the country understand that increasing intellectual diversity can only be a good thing for productivity and the welfare of the immigrants as well?


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## Albrown (Nov 22, 2011)

*PEng and Engineering*



Freddy_uk said:


> As an engineer Im finding it difficult. Everyone wants peng but you can't get this without 1yr as an engineer in Canada. Im visiting later this month so hopefully convince someone Im worth the risk.


Freddy, its actually against the law to call yourself an Engineer in Canada without being licensed with one of the engineering bodies and it carries a $25,000 fine. However saying that, I immigrated with a CEng and worked under PEng's who took responsibility for my work and this is legal, but note I wasn't an Engineer. It really depends on which line of engineering you are in. Just to recap. You need to have your qualifications assessed and there is a minimum requirement. You may be asked to retake exams depending on the degree you took. You will almost certainly will have to take the legal and ethics exams and pass it before licensing. The process took me about a year. Make sure you have your degree transcripts handy!

Try this website for details on how to go about the process for Ontario. There are a number of links here to help you and I do remember there being assistance for immigrants making the conversion.

Try the Professional Engineers Ontario website for info

Hope that helps


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## Freddy_uk (Feb 11, 2012)

Albrown said:


> Freddy, its actually against the law to call yourself an Engineer in Canada without being licensed with one of the engineering bodies and it carries a $25,000 fine. However saying that, I immigrated with a CEng and worked under PEng's who took responsibility for my work and this is legal, but note I wasn't an Engineer. It really depends on which line of engineering you are in. Just to recap. You need to have your qualifications assessed and there is a minimum requirement. You may be asked to retake exams depending on the degree you took. You will almost certainly will have to take the legal and ethics exams and pass it before licensing. The process took me about a year. Make sure you have your degree transcripts handy!
> 
> Try this website for details on how to go about the process for Ontario. There are a number of links here to help you and I do remember there being assistance for immigrants making the conversion.
> 
> ...


Thanks.

I actually kicked off the EIT process a few month ago with apega as i dont have enough experience post degree. I have 6 years in total but they only accept 12months pre degree, meaning right now i can only claim 2! years in total.

Anyway i should have EIT later this month so at least i can show my transcripts have been assessed like ya say, and im a little further down the road to peng.

Im hoping my degree is ok. I got 2:1 on a control and instrumentation degree that's accredited by both the IET and InstMC. So if the have a problem i will appeal.


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## CDN2012 (Jun 15, 2011)

Its not hidden, many many people know about this issue for sometime now.


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