# street food vendors licence



## thooman

Hi. Can anyone tell me if i need and if so where and how to obtain a license for selling street/beach food. 
Any help on this subject would be greatly appreciated.


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## jojo

thooman said:


> Hi. Can anyone tell me if i need and if so where and how to obtain a license for selling street/beach food.
> Any help on this subject would be greatly appreciated.


You would need to contact the local Town Hall/Ayuntamiento and they will tell you whats involved. The criteria and costs seem to be different in different areas 

Jo xxx


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## thooman

jojo said:


> You would need to contact the local Town Hall/Ayuntamiento and they will tell you whats involved. The criteria and costs seem to be different in different areas
> 
> Jo xxx


Ok cool thanks. Looks like ill have to wait until i get there in february


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## jojo

thooman said:


> Ok cool thanks. Looks like ill have to wait until i get there in february


You need to make sure that what you want to do is allowed and possible too. The laws on selling food "on the streets" arent the same as in the UK

Jo xxx


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## thrax

In fact they can be incredibly difficult, especially if any Spanish folk decide you are invading their patch. If they don't like it you won't get a licence. It's happened around here quite a few times so make sure you aren't likely to upset any locals.


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## Alcalaina

On the CDL the police patrol the beaches on quad bikes and confiscate the goods of unlicensed sellers. I expect this happens in other places too.


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## jojo

Alcalaina said:


> On the CDL the police patrol the beaches on quad bikes and confiscate the goods of unlicensed sellers. I expect this happens in other places too.


........ and they ride those "segway" things. Its quite amusing watching all the "lookie lookie" men gather up their belongings and run!

Jo xxx


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## DROOBY

thooman said:


> Hi. Can anyone tell me if i need and if so where and how to obtain a license for selling street/beach food.
> Any help on this subject would be greatly appreciated.



Hi,

I looked into this a couple of years ago and basically just gave up. In Spain from what i remember you can't really do any street food legally theres no such thing as catering vans, food carts etc.. as its just not allowed completely diffrent from the UK. There are some exceptions i,e Medieval markets, local Fiestas but the waiting lists are years to get a stall and it comes down to who you know, not what you know if you get my drift!
If you do try and someone thinks your stealing business the police are called before you blink. be very warey!!

D


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## fastlos

Wow, I read the responses here and hear a lot of whiners! I have started a specialty food business here in Granada and it is not that difficult. There is red tape, but nothing impossible. Spein just adopted the European licensing standards about 6 months ago and it is a lot easier..
First of all, mobil catering is not illegal here. Second, to apply for a food business you go to Sanidad first. That is where you apply for all the documentation. It took me 3 months, and I have a commercial kitchen here where I produce bbq sauces and spice american and mexican spice blends. After the initial inspections I won´t see inspectors now but once a year.
As far as competition and "localism" I think if you sell Spanish goods or foods you are trying to break into a small market. And Spaniards aren´t going to buy spanish goods from a foreigner. But.. sell them tacos. Sell them crumpets. Sell them bbq. They will buy!

Just my .02 cents

Carlos


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## jojo

fastlos said:


> Wow, I read the responses here and hear a lot of whiners! I have started a specialty food business here in Granada and it is not that difficult. There is red tape, but nothing impossible. Spein just adopted the European licensing standards about 6 months ago and it is a lot easier..
> First of all, mobil catering is not illegal here. Second, to apply for a food business you go to Sanidad first. That is where you apply for all the documentation. It took me 3 months, and I have a commercial kitchen here where I produce bbq sauces and spice american and mexican spice blends. After the initial inspections I won´t see inspectors now but once a year.
> As far as competition and "localism" I think if you sell Spanish goods or foods you are trying to break into a small market. And Spaniards aren´t going to buy spanish goods from a foreigner. But.. sell them tacos. Sell them crumpets. Sell them bbq. They will buy!
> 
> Just my .02 cents
> 
> Carlos


Not so much that people are "whining". It all depends on your knowledge of the rules and the language! You've made your experience sound easy, but the process is a relatively long one compared to how things are in the UK. Selling crumpets and good "english fayre" is a good idea tho!!??

Jo xxx


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## Pesky Wesky

fastlos said:


> Wow, I read the responses here and hear a lot of whiners! I have started a specialty food business here in Granada and it is not that difficult. There is red tape, but nothing impossible. Spein just adopted the European licensing standards about 6 months ago and it is a lot easier..
> First of all, mobil catering is not illegal here. Second, to apply for a food business you go to Sanidad first. That is where you apply for all the documentation. It took me 3 months, and I have a commercial kitchen here where I produce bbq sauces and spice american and mexican spice blends. After the initial inspections I won´t see inspectors now but once a year.
> As far as competition and "localism" I think if you sell Spanish goods or foods you are trying to break into a small market. And Spaniards aren´t going to buy spanish goods from a foreigner. But.. sell them tacos. Sell them crumpets. Sell them bbq. They will buy!
> 
> Just my .02 cents
> 
> Carlos


Nice to hear the other side of the argument, although I don't agree with your classification of whiners. People who have found the area more difficult than anticipated maybe?
I have a few questions which I'd like to ask you. Hope you have time to answer.
You say you have a commercial kitchen. Do you sell in the street in a mobile van/ stall as well? Do you speak Spanish? And how did you do the paperwork - through a gestor or yourself?
And, are you fom the States? How on earth did you manage to get your papers? I thought US citizens only got a visa if they were doing a job that couldn't be filled by someone from the EU?


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## fastlos

*ok, not whiners.*



jojo said:


> Not so much that people are "whining". It all depends on your knowledge of the rules and the language! You've made your experience sound easy, but the process is a relatively long one compared to how things are in the UK. Selling crumpets and good "english fayre" is a good idea tho!!??
> 
> Jo xxx


Please excuse my use of language! When people make uneducated replies or give unfounded advice it brings out the sarcasm in me.. 
The process in Spain is easier than in the United States, fact. Don´t know about the UK. Also, it makes me feel good that there are controls in place to make sure food is safe, or at least the people making the food have been trained. I´ve been to many countries where that is not the case and my poor innards have suffered from bad food. 
The process isn´t that hard at all, you just need a legal kitchen and some permits that do not require much. You can also hire a technico who will do everything including presenting your documents to sanidad for about 300-500 euros.
Then you can sell your crumpets! With my chili powder! Or chipotle bbq sauce..

Cheers


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## jojo

fastlos said:


> Please excuse my use of language! When people make uneducated replies or give unfounded advice it brings out the sarcasm in me..
> The process in Spain is easier than in the United States, fact. Don´t know about the UK. Also, it makes me feel good that there are controls in place to make sure food is safe, or at least the people making the food have been trained. I´ve been to many countries where that is not the case and my poor innards have suffered from bad food.
> The process isn´t that hard at all, you just need a legal kitchen and some permits that do not require much. You can also hire a technico who will do everything including presenting your documents to sanidad for about 300-500 euros.
> Then you can sell your crumpets! With my chili powder! Or chipotle bbq sauce..
> 
> Cheers



I dont think that people are making uneducated replies - they're simply passing on how _*they*_ found it!! Which could be caused thru lack of language and understanding of the system. Its also the waiting times that can cause frustrations. I had a friend who opened a cafe in Spain and he had to wait at least 6 weeks between every procedure, when he needed financially to get "up and running" as soon as possible! So, no it may not be difficult as such, but very frustrating and certainly complicated if you dont have prior experience or knowledge! - It does seem that British arent used to the way things are done in Spain and some dont even have experience in the way things are done in their home country, so it seems more complicated. Crumpets are served warm with butter melting over them and maybe a spot of raspberry jam - YUM!!!!!

Jo xxx


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## xabiaxica

Pesky Wesky said:


> Nice to hear the other side of the argument, although I don't agree with your classification of whiners. People who have found the area more difficult than anticipated maybe?
> I have a few questions which I'd like to ask you. Hope you have time to answer.
> You say you have a commercial kitchen. Do you sell in the street in a mobile van/ stall as well? Do you speak Spanish? And how did you do the paperwork - through a gestor or yourself?
> And, are you fom the States? *How on earth did you manage to get your papers*? I thought US citizens only got a visa if they were doing a job that couldn't be filled by someone from the EU?


yes, I'd be interested in that too - if only because so many US citizens come on the forum wanting advice as to how to move here on a permanent basis


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## DROOBY

fastlos said:


> Please excuse my use of language! When people make uneducated replies or give unfounded advice it brings out the sarcasm in me..
> The process in Spain is easier than in the United States, fact. Don´t know about the UK. Also, it makes me feel good that there are controls in place to make sure food is safe, or at least the people making the food have been trained. I´ve been to many countries where that is not the case and my poor innards have suffered from bad food.
> The process isn´t that hard at all, you just need a legal kitchen and some permits that do not require much. You can also hire a technico who will do everything including presenting your documents to sanidad for about 300-500 euros.
> Then you can sell your crumpets! With my chili powder! Or chipotle bbq sauce..
> 
> Cheers



I Recommend that if you can't read other peoples opinions or experiances without being sarcastic then don't bother reading a public forum as this is the whole point
I find being referred to as a whiner or as uneducated very disrepectful and personnally don't appreciate it and i'm sure that the others don't either.

I currently have a restaurant in Spain and have another due to open specialising in Street food. I also have had two in the UK. 
I am a personal chef for big music groups and cook all over the world so need to know most countries health and hygiene laws Fact! I could'nt give a monkey's how hard it is to open a catering place in the US this is'nt the US and that was'nt the question! Fact!! Then again i'm just uneducated!

I have found it easy to open commercial kitchens here but that was'nt what was being asked. If you had taken the time to read the questions the original op was asking for advise on selling street food in the street or on a beach etc...
Now where i live the townhall does not allow this and there is no such licence. If you are caught selling from a van, stand etc you WILL be fined and have your equipment siezed!!! I was lead to believe from the mayor this was the same all over. That may well be different where you are as we all know townhalls do things their own way.
I do however have a stall at some medievel markets selling food but these seem to be the exception along with local fiestas etc.. but i still have to prove i have a commercial kitchen to be allowed to take part in these!

This is my experiance in the matter please feel free to share yours, but just remember not everyone has a smooth time of it and sometimes it does go wrong maybe try showing some mutual respect by remembering this. We are hear for the same reason to give help and advice or ask for it!

D


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## fastlos

*lucky*

I was born here, and left to go surf in California when I was three. Dad was in the air force, my mom the Spaniard he married. 
I came back two years ago to help take care of my mom. Salaries aren´t what I was used to so I decided to start my own business. 
Now you can all help me by buying my bbq sauces, fajita mixs, Cajun blackening rub, or Texas chili powder with mexican ancho chili!

Thanks!


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## xabiaxica

fastlos said:


> I was born here, and left to go surf in California when I was three. Dad was in the air force, my mom the Spaniard he married.
> I came back two years ago to help take care of my mom. Salaries aren´t what I was used to so I decided to start my own business.
> Now you can all help me by buying my bbq sauces, fajita mixs, Cajun blackening rub, or Texas chili powder with mexican ancho chili!
> 
> Thanks!


stop touting for business!!!


do you in fact have a street vendors license???

that is what the OP wanted to know - & if you do have one how did you get it & do you sell your wares at street markets/on the beach or only at special events such as those suggested by DROOBY?

it sounds as if what you are selling would be sold in packets or jars, possibly at the mercado/mercadillo- not at all what the OP wanted to know about, which was iirc selling food - possibly fast food type stuff such as burgers on the street or the beach?


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## fastlos

Sorry Drooby, but I already apologized once! Hmm.. to sell in a street cart you need a comercial kitchen. So thats got to be done before you sell in your van. The mayor has nothing to do with permits, zoning does. the ayuntamiento gives you a business license. Sanidad authorizes you to make food and sell it publicly. 
Curiousity- Is your restaurant Scottish food? It sounds like your doing very well, opening up another restaurant. Why do you sell at the medievel fairs? the ones I´ve been to remind me of traveling carnivals, with the food being the same at all of them. Do you sell Spanish food there? 
Thanks and have a great day!


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## xabiaxica

fastlos said:


> Sorry Drooby, but I already apologized once! Hmm.. to sell in a street cart you need a comercial kitchen. So thats got to be done before you sell in your van. The mayor has nothing to do with permits, zoning does. the ayuntamiento gives you a business license. Sanidad authorizes you to make food and sell it publicly.
> Curiousity- Is your restaurant Scottish food? It sounds like your doing very well, opening up another restaurant. Why do you sell at the medievel fairs? the ones I´ve been to remind me of traveling carnivals, with the food being the same at all of them. Do you sell Spanish food there?
> Thanks and have a great day!


so - do you sell the sort of thing the OP wants to do - 'fast food on the street/beach' or not?

you are saying that you first have to have a commercial kitchen - which means that if you don't have one you can't do the street food thing


which is pretty much what we have all been saying in any case - you can't just get a licence to sell food on the street


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## DROOBY

fastlos said:


> Sorry Drooby, but I already apologized once! Hmm.. to sell in a street cart you need a comercial kitchen. So thats got to be done before you sell in your van. The mayor has nothing to do with permits, zoning does. the ayuntamiento gives you a business license. Sanidad authorizes you to make food and sell it publicly.
> Curiousity- Is your restaurant Scottish food? It sounds like your doing very well, opening up another restaurant. Why do you sell at the medievel fairs? the ones I´ve been to remind me of traveling carnivals, with the food being the same at all of them. Do you sell Spanish food there?
> Thanks and have a great day!


Think you'll find you excused your language then went on to say we're uneducated! If that's an apology I'm missing something!
Try rereading my post I said I needed a commercial kitchen to do the medieval Market not a street cart. Again this is just maybe the way it's done locally I only know what I have been told not what is right or wrong!! 
The OP is asking about selling food on the beach or in the streets via a van I presume. I personally have asked around and researched this and have been told this is not allowed as it is classed as street trading which IS illegal except at markets fiestas etc... If you believe this to be wrong then fair enough but provide useful info on how to go about obtaining street traders licences and permission to trade in at the side of the road or on the beach. I personally don't see how it would be possible as the static restaurants and chringetos would kick off big time.


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## fastlos

I know of a Hot Dog cart here in Granada, thats street food I think. I am going to ask him what he has done to be legal, if he is. 
Don´t want to ruffle feathers.. But the OP asked a question, and I feel only recieved negative responses. People told me I would never be successful with bbq sauces and spice blends here but they were all wrong...  maybe i´ll build a cart to sell bbq on the beach! 

Fastlos


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## xabiaxica

fastlos said:


> I know of a Hot Dog cart here in Granada, thats street food I think. I am going to ask him what he has done to be legal, if he is.
> Don´t want to ruffle feathers.. But the OP asked a question, and I feel only recieved negative responses. People told me I would never be successful with bbq sauces and spice blends here but they were all wrong...  maybe i´ll build a cart to sell bbq on the beach!
> 
> Fastlos


yes that would be street food - & it would be very interesting to know if he is indeed legal & how he got his licence if he is

the OP didn't ask if he could be successful doing street food - but how he could get a licence - we told him that as far as we know & in our experience he would be highly unlikely to get one - & pointed him in the direction of his local ayuntamiento where they could give him the definitive answer

our replies may well have been on the negative side - sometimes the truth is negative - but at least they answered his question


which you haven't at all - you have simply gone on & on about your bbq sauces & spices -one would almost think you only posted to advertise your business................I do hope you didn't

if however you do want to advertise - please be aware that it isn't permitted in the discussion forums - should you wish to advertise in the Marketplace however, you may do so by upgrading to Premium Membership


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## DROOBY

fastlos said:


> I know of a Hot Dog cart here in Granada, thats street food I think. I am going to ask him what he has done to be legal, if he is.
> Don´t want to ruffle feathers.. But the OP asked a question, and I feel only recieved negative responses. People told me I would never be successful with bbq sauces and spice blends here but they were all wrong...  maybe i´ll build a cart to sell bbq on the beach!
> 
> Fastlos


That's fair enough Carlos but it's not about being negative or ruffling feathers. Everyone is entitled to their opinions and to tell of their side of the story without being called names and told if their information is different to yours they must then be uneducated! 
The problem most of us have had here is that wherever you ask for advice from the officials, from 5 people you'll get 5 different answers.

If you do get a chance to speak to the hog dog chap that would be great and it would proof useful to alot of people. I'm glad you have made your business work. Alot of people give me negative views when I open but I take them on board but still follow what I think is right for me. One day they might be wrong but if you don't try you'll never know.


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## fastlos

xabiachica said:


> yes that would be street food - & it would be very interesting to know if he is indeed legal & how he got his licence if he is
> 
> the OP didn't ask if he could be successful doing street food - but how he could get a licence - we told him that as far as we know & in our experience he would be highly unlikely to get one - & pointed him in the direction of his local ayuntamiento where they could give him the definitive answer
> 
> our replies may well have been on the negative side - sometimes the truth is negative - but at least they answered his question
> 
> 
> which you haven't at all - you have simply gone on & on about your bbq sauces & spices -one would almost think you only posted to advertise your business................I do hope you didn't
> 
> if however you do want to advertise - please be aware that it isn't permitted in the discussion forums - should you wish to advertise in the Marketplace however, you may do so by upgrading to Premium Membership



My earlier post is below. And your negatives did not answer his question. I believe mine did. 

_Spain just adopted the European licensing standards about 6 months ago and it is a lot easier..
First of all, mobil catering is not illegal here. Second, to apply for a food business you go to Sanidad first. That is where you apply for all the documentation. It took me 3 months, and I have a commercial kitchen here where I produce bbq sauces and spice american and mexican spice blends. After the initial inspections I won´t see inspectors now but once a year.
As far as competition and "localism" I think if you sell Spanish goods or foods you are trying to break into a small market. And Spaniards aren´t going to buy spanish goods from a foreigner. But.. sell them tacos. Sell them crumpets. Sell them bbq. They will buy!¨"_Quote[/B][/B][/B][/U]

Maybe your talking about walking up and down the beach approaching people. When I hear "street food" I think a cart or chiringito where you can control the temp of your products. They are legal and all over Spain. Especially at the beach. You need a sanidad approved cart and a business license. 
So.. I feel I have offered an answer, and not a negative one. And I will stop mentioning my ______ anymore! if the original poster would like any help I may be able to offer free of charge(No advert!) I would be happy to do so.

Peace,

Fastlos

Kindest regards and apologies.


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## jojo

fastlos said:


> My earlier post is below. And your negatives did not answer his question. I believe mine did.
> 
> _Spain just adopted the European licensing standards about 6 months ago and it is a lot easier..
> First of all, mobil catering is not illegal here. Second, to apply for a food business you go to Sanidad first. That is where you apply for all the documentation. It took me 3 months, and I have a commercial kitchen here where I produce bbq sauces and spice american and mexican spice blends. After the initial inspections I won´t see inspectors now but once a year.
> As far as competition and "localism" I think if you sell Spanish goods or foods you are trying to break into a small market. And Spaniards aren´t going to buy spanish goods from a foreigner. But.. sell them tacos. Sell them crumpets. Sell them bbq. They will buy!¨"_Quote[/B][/B][/B][/U]
> 
> Maybe your talking about walking up and down the beach approaching people. When I hear "street food" I think a cart or chiringito where you can control the temp of your products. They are legal and all over Spain. Especially at the beach. You need a sanidad approved cart and a business license.
> So.. I feel I have offered an answer, and not a negative one. And I will stop mentioning my ______ anymore! if the original poster would like any help I may be able to offer free of charge(No advert!) I would be happy to do so.
> 
> Peace,
> 
> Fastlos
> 
> Kindest regards and apologies.


The trouble with Spains bureaucracy can be that the Funcionarios dont always get the facts, procedures or paperwork handed down to them and also they do without doubt work quite slowly, due again to the need for so much paperwork! So even something as simple as registering as autonomo can be a testing experience - and thats for spanish locals - its harder for British who have just arrived!

The bottom line is that you found it easy - whether its because your expectations were less, you speak Spanish, understand the system.... but in the main, the overwhelming experience from Brits is that is aint easy and the laws seem to be different wherever you go - fact!

Jo xxx


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## fastlos

jojo said:


> The trouble with Spains bureaucracy can be that the Funcionarios dont always get the facts, procedures or paperwork handed down to them and also they do without doubt work quite slowly, due again to the need for so much paperwork! So even something as simple as registering as autonomo can be a testing experience - and thats for spanish locals - its harder for British who have just arrived!
> 
> The bottom line is that you found it easy - whether its because your expectations were less, you speak Spanish, understand the system.... but in the main, the overwhelming experience from Brits is that is aint easy and the laws seem to be different wherever you go - fact!
> 
> Jo xxx


The laws are the same all over Spain. It's just that Brits expect people to cater to them in their language. You have to learn spanish! 
And be more positive!


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## jojo

fastlos said:


> The laws are the same all over Spain. It's just that Brits expect people to cater to them in their language. You have to learn spanish!
> And be more positive!







The laws are enterpreted differently, by different funcionarios, different offices, different days............ I have found that out simply by having to get my NIE, SS numbers and signing onto several different padrons, and of course you have those funcionarios who like to make things difficult as per the Spanish clip I've posted!


Jo xxx


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## fastlos

jojo said:


> Video Link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NmiPOYPZ-fA
> 
> The laws are enterpreted differently, by different funcionarios, different offices, different days............ I have found that out simply by having to get my NIE, SS numbers and signing onto several different padrons, and of course you have those funcionarios who like to make things difficult as per the Spanish clip I've posted!
> 
> Jo xxx


Spain adopted the EEUU food standards last year. Requirements for food based businesses are uniform throughout all of Spain. They are available on the web and your local sanidad office. Of this I am 100 percent positive. 
And you can quote me on that. 
One has to make an educated inquiry, preferably in the local language. Not expect spaniards to be professional to someone who does not even speak their language! 
If you want answers one must look in the right places. 
And thank you, my company is just great. We'll be in your grocery soon if not already!


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## xabiaxica

fastlos said:


> Spain adopted the EEUU food standards last year. Requirements for food based businesses are uniform throughout all of Spain. They are available on the web and your local sanidad office. Of this I am 100 percent positive.
> And you can quote me on that.
> *One has to make an educated inquiry, preferably in the local language. Not expect spaniards to be professional to someone who does not even speak their language! *
> If you want answers one must look in the right places.
> And thank you, my company is just great. We'll be in your grocery soon if not already!


well I guess we agree on one thing in any case......

however, the vast majority of those who make enquiries, on this & many other forums, about moving to Spain to open some sort of business can barely order a beer in a bar......... which is just one reason they will get 'negativity'


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## jojo

I think before we go on. There is a bit of a cultural difference going on here. Fastlos is American/Californian. He may not understand that historically Brits have been going to Spain for holidays and to live because up until recently, it was less developed (I cant think of a better expression), cheap and easy. They could sell small houses in the UK and buy luxury villas in Spain with seaviews, pools, land for nonepence. There was plenty of work to be found in building, catering, service and tourism. The need to speak Spanish wasnt essential as the locals were just happy to see Brits and their money. This has now ended. Spain is a modern and developed country and its no longer cheap. However the legacy of living cheap and well with plenty of work still lives on in the UK. So we have lots of Brits coming over to make an easy fortune in the sun. Then you have to factor in the recession, which has hit Spain hard - all of this means that the Dream that many Brits have simply isnt there anymore. Hence we appear to be negative, to dispell the old myth. Fastlos, you would be surprised how many British people are happy to sell up everything in the UK with their families, not a clue what they're going to do for an income, about the language, the paperwork, the rules, the harshness.... and assume that they'll be alright. Countless have done this in the last few years and its turned sour for them. they end up going back to the UK with nothing - fine if you're young, foot loose and fancy free, but if you have children and commitments....!!!!!!??? Nah!

jo


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## incastone

This has been very informative.

Everything Fastlos said makes perfect sense to someone who regards street food as being something that has to be _made_, and then sold.
It strikes me that many Brits when thinking about street carts and 'street food' are thinking about pre-made, usually frozen hotdogs, burgers, sausage rolls - crap, essentially - that just needs to be reheated and put in a mass-produced bun.

This aspect of British 'culture' is really abysmal and depressing. We can all do better than that. It's 2014..

There are towns that have English shops and greasy spoons that do a roaring trade in this stuff. I don't get it, but then again I've just realised that I am actually a bit of a food fascist. Oops!
Ah well, there's worse things to be.

To get a piece of the Spanish market (which ironically enough is where the money is in this sector), you need to do it right - simple, quality food that's just different enough to appeal but not too different that the often conservative Spanish eaters will reject it. 

When you look at it in terms of proper street food, then having to have a commercial kitchen before you can get a Sanidad approved cart/van/food truck seems a no-brainer, as you need somewhere hygienic and approved where you can prepare from scratch the items that you are going to vend on the street. 
I'm sure there are exceptions like Churro carts where you sometimes see them mixing batter in the cart, but this is such an old tradition, like 'burnt' (caramelised) almonds in Scandinavia or roasted chestnuts in the UK that I assume they don't really fall under the same rules, or there are special regulations for them?

Who knows. 
I've got my eye on this prize because the food revolution we were so lucky to have in the '90s in the UK thanks to Jamie Oliver of all people, hasn't happened in Spain yet, not on the general scale, but it will happen, of that I'm sure.
Even if it doesn't, then being one lonely fish in a big sea is even better because you'll have the market cornered, it's just a question of getting the product right. Frozen, pre-battered fish or dodgy burgers a la the vans at UK boot markets isn't going to make anyone any money, and just for ther sake of dignity, I wish people would stop trying to sell it


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## bob_bob

Jamie Oliver caused a food revolution in the 90? yer avin a jirraff mate intya.


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## incastone

No, mate, I'm not 

Before the first Naked Chef series you could not walk into a British supermarket and have access to what is now the best and most varied range of domestic _and international_ produce in Europe.

He encouraged people to be more creative and adventurous when it came to cooking more authentically at home, and understanding processes and knowledge that until then commercial restaurants held as 'trade secrets'.

The British have always consumed more foreign food in restaurants (in the UK) than other countries in Europe, but after the NC series people started cooking these dishes at home too on a much larger scale, and that is what prompted the supermarkets to start stocking the ingredients that those dishes required, and that has led us to the remarkable situation we enjoy today.

Of course if you don't cook restaurant style food at home, British or foreign, and you don't look for lime or curry leaves, galangal or rice paper etc when you go shopping, then what I'm saying will not make sense to you.
But for a huge portion of the population, a number that grows daily, this is plain fact.


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## mrypg9

incastone said:


> No, mate, I'm not
> 
> Before the first Naked Chef series you could not walk into a British supermarket and have access to what is now the best and most varied range of domestic _and international_ produce in Europe.
> 
> He encouraged people to be more creative and adventurous when it came to cooking more authentically at home, and understanding processes and knowledge that until then commercial restaurants held as 'trade secrets'.
> 
> The British have always consumed more foreign food in restaurants (in the UK) than other countries in Europe, but after the NC series people started cooking these dishes at home too on a much larger scale, and that is what prompted the supermarkets to start stocking the ingredients that those dishes required, and that has led us to the remarkable situation we enjoy today.
> 
> Of course if you don't cook restaurant style food at home, British or foreign, and you don't look for lime or curry leaves, galangal or rice paper etc when you go shopping, then what I'm saying will not make sense to you.
> But for a huge portion of the population, a number that grows daily, this is plain fact.



I think you'll find Elizabeth David predated Jamie Oliver by fifty years or so, although her 'revolution' was largely confined to the middle classes.

The ingredients you cite have always been available in big cities with large immigrant populations but yes, they are more widely available now.
But people did cook 'creatively and adventurously' before this fad for tv chefs spread the practice more widely. It's nothing new, just more popular amongst people who might not have been that interested in food before, other than as fuel.
I'd say it began in the 1960s.
Very little that is now trendy is, actually, new.


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## Alcalaina

Wasn't it dear Delia who introduced the masses to sun-dried tomatoes, balsamic vinegar and (groan) choreetho? I remember Sainsburys regularly sold out of such things after she'd used them in a recipe the night before. I'm sure that was before Jamie Oliver appeared on the scene.


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## mrypg9

Alcalaina said:


> Wasn't it dear Delia who introduced the masses to sun-dried tomatoes, balsamic vinegar and (groan) choreetho? I remember Sainsburys regularly sold out of such things after she'd used them in a recipe the night before. I'm sure that was before Jamie Oliver appeared on the scene.


Of course!! I'd forgotten Delia! And yes, she was titillating the taste buds of we proles long before Jamie appeared on the box. Maybe a good ten years before, even.
Every era has its 'culinary revolution' it seems. I remember getting hold of a copy of David's 'French Provencial Cooking' as a pretentious student at Uni badly wanting to impress with sophisticated candlelit dinner parties - most of the time we ate horrible food in Hall or baked beans from the saucepan. I failed as I am and always have been a lousy cook and anyway 99% of the ingredients were unheard of as well as unavailable at that time out in the sticks.
I've got a copy of David's 'Spices, Salt and Aromatics in the English Kitchen' on my desk...it's an interesting read if nothing else.
Claudia Roden was another populariser of good cooking way back then.


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## jojo

I remember ***** Craddock and her Johnny !! 

Jo xxx


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## mrypg9

jojo said:


> I remember ***** Craddock and her Johnny !!
> 
> Jo xxx


Mindreader!!!!! I was just going to post about her, she of the delete.
She was rather fond of the gin, if I remember rightly. Her catchphrase: 'Here's one I made earlier'.

Interest in good food and home cooking certainly did not begin with Jamie Oliver.


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## incastone

My favourite from the 80´s was Keith ´let me just pour myself another glass of red´Floyd 
What a legend!

There´s no argument about interest in food and home cooking predating Oliver by a long stretch, but that wasn´t really my point, it was that he was the first one that got enough people interested en masse that the supermarkets really got on board.
As some of you pointed out, before then either the ingredients weren´t available or equipment and budget requirements restricted the growth to limited numbers.

I was lucky in my house to have a very foodie dad who was cooking Asian food in the 70´s, but this was rare.
How many people were buying jars of Patak curry pastes in the 60s, 70s and 80s for example, let along creating and cooking with their own home ground masalas?


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## snikpoh

.... and what about the galloping gourmet - Graham Kerr?


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## mrypg9

incastone said:


> .
> How many people were buying jars of Patak curry pastes in the 60s, 70s and 80s for example, let along creating and cooking with their own home ground masalas?


Depended on the circles you mixed in. I lived in North London at that time and most of my friends were into what was, as you rightly suggest, then regarded as 'exotic' cooking.

What the tv chefs did was to popularise what had been previously of interest to a comparative lycosmopolitan well-travelled few.

I note you worked in Warsaw...I spent a lot of time in Poland in the 1970s and had many Polish friends back in London. I enjoyed Polish food in Krakow and back in London was able to source genuine Polish ingredients from a rather drab little shop in the Holloway Road...or it might have been Hornsey Road, it was a long time ago!

When I moved out of London I missed the Asian, Caribbean and Jewish corner shops and delis. I lived within an easy drive of Manor House where there were lots of Turkish and Greek grocery shops.

Quite a few 'ordinary' people patronised these shops and small cafes/restaurants.
But outside of London.....

I don't know what it was like in cities like Manchester or Glasgow then I never ventured that far beyond Potters Bar in those days -but you could of course get an authentic balti in Birmingham.


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## incastone

If I recall correctly the last 'best Indian restaurant in the UK' competition was won by a Birmingham establishment 

We're really spoiled in the UK for good foreign food compared to the rest of Europe, very easy to take it for granted.
There's loads of bad places of course, but then again there are loads of crap chippies as well, more's the pity.
But try and find a good Indian restaurant in Warsaw. Impossible. Or a great Vietnamese place in Copenhagen - very difficult, in fact there's only one, and that didn't arrive until about 2007.

I love the fact that many Brits have such cosmopolitan food tastes, it makes us quite unique, but it does mean that I feel short-changed option-wise when I live in other countries!


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## mrypg9

incastone said:


> If I recall correctly the last 'best Indian restaurant in the UK' competition was won by a Birmingham establishment
> 
> We're really spoiled in the UK for good foreign food compared to the rest of Europe, very easy to take it for granted.
> There's loads of bad places of course, but then again there are loads of crap chippies as well, more's the pity.
> But try and find a good Indian restaurant in Warsaw. Impossible. Or a great Vietnamese place in Copenhagen - very difficult, in fact there's only one, and that didn't arrive until about 2007.
> 
> I love the fact that many Brits have such cosmopolitan food tastes, it makes us quite unique, but it does mean that I feel short-changed option-wise when I live in other countries!


When I was last in Copenhagen, about three years ago, I ate well but was staggered at the cost of even a modest lunch. 

I'm not sure why but the idea of eating Indian, Vietnamese or Chinese food in Poland or the Czech Republic when I lived in Prague has never appealed. Irrational, I admit.

There are many 'foreign ' restaurants in the UK , true, but as to how authentic their cuisine, I wouldn't like to judge.
One of the best UK cities for eating well is imo Glasgow.


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## baldilocks

mrypg9 said:


> Mindreader!!!!! I was just going to post about her, she of the delete.
> She was rather fond of the gin, if I remember rightly. Her catchphrase: 'Here's one I made earlier'.
> 
> Interest in good food and home cooking certainly did not begin with Jamie Oliver.


What about Philip Harben who pre-dated the Craddocks and all the rest of the so-called celebrity chefs (Philip Harben - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia). Up until a few years ago I still had an egg poacher that bore the name Harbenware from back in the 60s


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## incastone

mrypg9 said:


> When I was last in Copenhagen, about three years ago, I ate well but was staggered at the cost of even a modest lunch.
> 
> I'm not sure why but the idea of eating Indian, Vietnamese or Chinese food in Poland or the Czech Republic when I lived in Prague has never appealed. Irrational, I admit.
> 
> There are many 'foreign ' restaurants in the UK , true, but as to how authentic their cuisine, I wouldn't like to judge.
> One of the best UK cities for eating well is imo Glasgow.


Oh man, yes food prices in Denmark are shocking. It´s the 2nd most expensive country to buy food after Norway. A half-kilo of cheee and a loaf of bread in the supermarket will set you back the equivalent of 9 euro.

It´s only visitors that really feel the pain though as when you´re living and working there ´in the loop´, you´re much better off than most other places so you don´t feel it. 
I don´t think your comment about eating local traditional food is irrational at all.
I´m not sure I would want to eat just Danish food living in Denmark or just Polish food in Poland though. 
I like to eat whatever I feel like eating, wherever I am. I don´t like imposing artificially limited choices on myself, even with the best intentions.
The only exception was Asia, where I didn´t have cravings for anything other than Asian food, but I´m biased. I could live on Indian and Thai food forever and not get bored of it.

I´m with you on the issue of just how authentic many of the foerign restaurants are. Like I said, there´s loads of bad ones. There´s loads of bad places selling British food in the UK as well, which baffles me. How can they still not get the basics right?!

No excuse for mediocre fish and chips.
I love fish and chips. But as with everything in life, it´s got to be done right, otherwise it´s just not worth it.

Saying that though, you will find me eating the cheapest tinned rice pudding and many varieties of awful mass produced processed cake, and loving it ha ha!!
Just don´t tell anyone..


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## incastone

mrypg9 said:


> I note you worked in Warsaw...I spent a lot of time in Poland in the 1970s and had many Polish friends back in London. I enjoyed Polish food in Krakow and back in London was able to source genuine Polish ingredients from a rather drab little shop in the Holloway Road...or it might have been Hornsey Road, it was a long time ago!


I had the most amazing meal in Krakow, it was a local dish of I think trout with a berry sauce and it was absolutely delicious, althogh it sounded strange at the time.

I have to say the food in Warsaw was not as inspiring, but it´s no secret even amongst the Poles that given the choice they would rather live in Krakow than Warsaw!

A beautiful city.


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## mrypg9

incastone said:


> I had the most amazing meal in Krakow, it was a local dish of I think trout with a berry sauce and it was absolutely delicious, althogh it sounded strange at the time.
> 
> I have to say the food in Warsaw was not as inspiring, but it´s no secret even amongst the Poles that given the choice they would rather live in Krakow than Warsaw!
> 
> A beautiful city.


Most cities in Central and Eastern Europe were so much more beautiful before 1989.
It was as if nothing had changed for centuries. 
Alas that included plumbing and other such not unimportant mod cons.
But then as was pointed out to me with some asperity when I mentioned this to a Czech friend, it would be a tad selfish to keep Czechs, Poles,Hungarians etc under socialism just to satisfy my aesthetic sensibilities.

I'm very much a European, not interested in Asia or North Africa although I have spent time there. We bought a place in rural Canada for retirement but realised we were too 'European' to settle.


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## bob_bob

mrypg9 said:


> I think you'll find Elizabeth David predated Jamie Oliver by fifty years or so, although her 'revolution' was largely confined to the middle classes.
> 
> The ingredients you cite have always been available in big cities with large immigrant populations but yes, they are more widely available now.
> But people did cook 'creatively and adventurously' before this fad for tv chefs spread the practice more widely. It's nothing new, just more popular amongst people who might not have been that interested in food before, other than as fuel.
> I'd say it began in the 1960s.
> Very little that is now trendy is, actually, new.


Well said Mary, not forgetting the likes of ***** Craddock and the army of other 'TV' chefs of the past 60 years and restaurateurs the likes of Albert & Michel Roux, Anton Mosimann and Ramond Blanc et al

Living in major cities meant I could get pretty much any ingredient I wanted and as I am a superb cook myself (  ) I took full advantage of said ingredients.

I've eaten in many Michelin star restaurants and also at young Mr Olivers...guess which was best lol


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## incastone

I always find it fascinating how many people can't help but weigh in with comments that completely miss the point, yet somehow phrase their offerings as if they've claimed some sort of philosophical victory


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## Pesky Wesky

incastone said:


> I always find it fascinating how many people can't help but weigh in with comments that completely miss the point, yet somehow phrase their offerings as if they've claimed some sort of philosophical victory


If this were verbal communication it would be called "chatting", not missing the point.


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## incastone

I didn't mean the chatting, I enjoy that


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## jojo

incastone said:


> I didn't mean the chatting, I enjoy that


Thats good cos we are a chatty bunch lol

Jo xxx

Sent from my D5803 using Expat Forum


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## Expatliving

fastlos said:


> Wow, I read the responses here and hear a lot of whiners! I have started a specialty food business here in Granada and it is not that difficult. There is red tape, but nothing impossible. Spein just adopted the European licensing standards about 6 months ago and it is a lot easier..
> First of all, mobil catering is not illegal here. Second, to apply for a food business you go to Sanidad first. That is where you apply for all the documentation. It took me 3 months, and I have a commercial kitchen here where I produce bbq sauces and spice american and mexican spice blends. After the initial inspections I won´t see inspectors now but once a year.
> As far as competition and "localism" I think if you sell Spanish goods or foods you are trying to break into a small market. And Spaniards aren´t going to buy spanish goods from a foreigner. But.. sell them tacos. Sell them crumpets. Sell them bbq. They will buy!
> 
> Just my .02 cents
> 
> Carlos


The reason why there are no 'mobile' catering vans in Spain is because of local restaurants having a massive sway on town hall/council leaders. This is also the case with alcohol in France, try and find an off licence selling cold beers there? Virtually no chance. This is because the bar/restaurant owners want you to spend in their establishments. Dare I say it's the most basic form of corruption/pressure being applied by town/village folk who may have been in residence for many generations? 

I've looked into the law in Spain regarding selling just about anything other than from a shop/restaurant/bar and the law is entwined in thick red tape ... Basically, protectionism in practice. Having said that, I'd probably prefer to buy food from a restaurant/bar etc that should have cold storage! 

I suspect in the very 'touristy' areas that companies like Macca Ds/Burger King/KFC etc must have spent a lot in convincing the local mayor/councillors to allow licences? I suspect that many of those officials have dined out for free on numerous occasions in 'said' establishments (sic).


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## mrypg9

It's great to hear about people enthusing about their new business ventures.
It would be even more satisfyingly to learn that these people were still enthusing two or three years on.
Not being 'negative' - that word is so misapplied- Just being realistic based on evidence of business start- ups.
Of course people who start new business ventures think they have a unique selling point and will conquer the world....or at least their few square km of it. And some do. But the food industry as a whole has produced a few successful wealthy entrepreneurs whereas the majority in that branch of the service sector work long hours for small reward.


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## mrypg9

Expatliving said:


> The reason why there are no 'mobile' catering vans in Spain is because of local restaurants having a massive sway on town hall/council leaders. This is also the case with alcohol in France, try and find an off licence selling cold beers there? Virtually no chance. This is because the bar/restaurant owners want you to spend in their establishments. Dare I say it's the most basic form of corruption/pressure being applied by town/village folk who may have been in residence for many generations?
> 
> QUOTE]
> 
> No, I'd say it's more because most Spanish people and a lot of us immigrants aren't 'grazers', as I believe people who like to wander around with a burger or whatever to munch are known.
> 
> Eating, dining, whatever you want to call it, is to many people an activity performed sitting down, at home or in establishments set up for the specific purpose, enjoyed in pleasant surroundings with or without friends and family and done in a leisurely, civilised manner.
> 
> There are no mobile food purveyors in our area and long may it be so. What we do have in our village is very many restaurants and café/bars catering to all tastes and wallets and which are primarily for people who like to be stationary at least whilst consuming food or drink and who may even on occasion wish to exchange a few sociable words with others who may feel the same way.
> 
> 
> Mobile food vans were however useful for me when many years ago I emerged from a club or disco slightly befuddled with drink and not really aware of what I was consuming from said mobile purveyors apart from that it staved off hunger for a while.


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## Expatliving

mrypg9 said:


> Expatliving said:
> 
> 
> 
> The reason why there are no 'mobile' catering vans in Spain is because of local restaurants having a massive sway on town hall/council leaders. This is also the case with alcohol in France, try and find an off licence selling cold beers there? Virtually no chance. This is because the bar/restaurant owners want you to spend in their establishments. Dare I say it's the most basic form of corruption/pressure being applied by town/village folk who may have been in residence for many generations?
> 
> QUOTE]
> 
> No, I'd say it's more because most Spanish people and a lot of us immigrants aren't 'grazers', as I believe people who like to wander around with a burger or whatever to munch are known.
> 
> Eating, dining, whatever you want to call it, is to many people an activity performed sitting down, at home or in establishments set up for the specific purpose, enjoyed in pleasant surroundings with or without friends and family and done in a leisurely, civilised manner.
> 
> There are no mobile food purveyors in our area and long may it be so. What we do have in our village is very many restaurants and café/bars catering to all tastes and wallets and which are primarily for people who like to be stationary at least whilst consuming food or drink and who may even on occasion wish to exchange a few sociable words with others who may feel the same way.
> 
> 
> Mobile food vans were however useful for me when many years ago I emerged from a club or disco slightly befuddled with drink and not really aware of what I was consuming from said mobile purveyors apart from that it staved off hunger for a while.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, that sounds pretty realistic, culture strikes again. And yes, waking up the next morning in the UK, after an evening on the sauce, smelling of Chili or garlic ... Happy days/nights!
Click to expand...


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## Pesky Wesky

> No, I'd say it's more because most Spanish people and a lot of us immigrants aren't 'grazers', as I believe people who like to wander around with a burger or whatever to munch are known.
> 
> Eating, dining, whatever you want to call it, is to many people an activity performed sitting down, at home or in establishments set up for the specific purpose, enjoyed in pleasant surroundings with or without friends and family and done in a leisurely, civilised manner.
> 
> There are no mobile food purveyors in our area and long may it be so. What we do have in our village is very many restaurants and café/bars catering to all tastes and wallets and which are primarily for people who like to be stationary at least whilst consuming food or drink and who may even on occasion wish to exchange a few sociable words with others who may feel the same way.
> 
> 
> Mobile food vans were however useful for me when many years ago I emerged from a club or disco slightly befuddled with drink and not really aware of what I was consuming from said mobile purveyors apart from that it staved off hunger for a while.


One thing that we as a faamily notice when we go back to the UK is that people are always eating and eat in the street a lot. Street eating is still not big here and I can only say thank goodness. Walking down a high street now seeing people happily chewing on burger, pasties, crisps, chocolate bars all washed down with the inevitable fizzy drink or "energy" drink turns my stomach. The amount of crap that people eat, and in public astonishes me.
In Weston Super Marvelous Mare I see people eating fish and chips any time from 11:00 onwards. What meal are they eating at 11:30? What meal are they eating at 15:30??


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## incastone

mrypg9 said:


> No, I'd say it's more because most Spanish people and a lot of us immigrants aren't 'grazers', as I believe people who like to wander around with a burger or whatever to munch are known.
> 
> Eating, dining, whatever you want to call it, is to many people an activity performed sitting down, at home or in establishments set up for the specific purpose, enjoyed in pleasant surroundings with or without friends and family and done in a leisurely, civilised manner.


This makes a lot of sense, and holds true in many parts of Spain, although ExpatLIving does have a point in that you had better make sure you don't step on anyone's toes when establishing a business here - that's true regardless of industry for a foreign entrepreneur though I reckon, especially one that 'encroaches' on grass-roots businesses like bars and cafes.

Your next post though mrypg9 betrays a little out-of-touchness with what the modern food truck movement actually is, if you'll forgive me for saying so!

It's not about pre-packaged frozen burgers and floppy bacon butties, although there are Brits who still peddle that stuff in some coastal areas to the shame of us all!

Food trucks nowadays stand for quality, gourmet even, foods produced fresh and from top quality ingredients, much more akin to quality pop-up restaurants than bootfair food vans that most people are aware of in the UK.

So there is a big market to be exploited there, when the Spanish are ready for it.
In the bigger cities there will definitely be a demand once someone starts doing it properly, but in the provinces I think you're correct in your assumption that people would rather retain the traditional aspects of eating and drinking.

Everyone enoys a good sit down meal of course, I know I do, but food trucks aren't there to replace this experience, they're designed to augment it, just as bars and cafes aren't supposed to replace dinner at home with friends.

There's a place for everyone's tastes, trends and needs in every different area. Trying to 'conquer the world' in a business sense sounds a bit melodramatic. 
I'd prefer if people just set out with the desire to produce good quality, good valuie products, whatever they might be, and if they succeed from there, that's great.
Making an honest living while providing something of real value to people is all any business person of integrity should be aiming for.


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## Pesky Wesky

incastone said:


> So there is a big market to be exploited there, when the Spanish are ready for it.
> In the bigger cities there will definitely be a demand once someone starts doing it properly, but in the provinces I think you're correct in your assumption that people would rather retain the traditional aspects of eating and drinking.


I think you're right that it's going to come to some part of Spain sooner or later, but I'm not sure what kind, the lower end or better quality end of the market.


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## incastone

Well the market always equalises itself.
Anyone that goes into business at the lower end won't stay in business. You don't need a degree to work that out 
Sure they might be replaced by someone else ad infinitum but they won't leave a lasting impression, just a stain.
HIgh-end in tnis context doesn't have to mean expensive or fancy either, it just has to be good and have the right kind of appeal to the right people in the right place at the right time.

The difference is that mediocre, tired and poorly executed food (or anything else) will only ever be a flash in the pan exercise even in the right place, at the right time.

People won't support an enterprise long-term that isn't worth supporting, but 'quality' products will have that support if they're timed and executed properly, no matter what the price bracket, and that's the key.


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## Pesky Wesky

incastone said:


> Well the market always equalises itself.
> Anyone that goes into business at the lower end won't stay in business.


You mean like McDonald's, 100 Montaditos and Rodilla?
 I don't think so.


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## mrypg9

Why does the term 'food truck' put me off??
Maybe I'm being irrational but quality food and strolling don't fit together. You either eat or you walk, as I see it. I enjoy walking, I enjoy eating...but not simultaneously. 
Oh well, sobre los gustos....


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## ccm47

Exactly, sobre los gustos.

Ever since I became responsible for feeding myself I have divided eating into two types The first is for fuel, if I am at work or out enjoying an event, countryside etc I do not want a dining experience, simply food to get by on and if it is a choice of sitting down to eat or eating on the hoof in order to do something else then I always choose the latter. Whether I take a sandwich with me, buy from a shop or a street vendor is of little importance for me. It's simply fuel.
Eat and move on.

The second type of eating is as a social occasion, which includes with family and friends, when I understand we must sit down, but even that can become a trial. Sitting at a table to chat never has been my idea of fun. Dining chairs are simply never comfortable enough IMO, nor do people concentrate on the taste as they are too busy swapping tales etc

What stands out in my mind was the conversation I had with a waiter in a Moroccan restaurant in Cannes where he was recalling his visit to London the number of people he had seen there eating whilst out and about. He regarded it as one of the greatest freedoms we had as such an idea is totally unacceptable in Morocco and outwith the French psyche too.


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## mrypg9

ccm47 said:


> Exactly, sobre los gustos.
> 
> Ever since I became responsible for feeding myself I have divided eating into two types The first is for fuel, if I am at work or out enjoying an event, countryside etc I do not want a dining experience, simply food to get by on and if it is a choice of sitting down to eat or eating on the hoof in order to do something else then I always choose the latter. Whether I take a sandwich with me, buy from a shop or a street vendor is of little importance for me. It's simply fuel.
> Eat and move on.
> 
> The second type of eating is as a social occasion, which includes with family and friends, when I understand we must sit down, but even that can become a trial. Sitting at a table to chat never has been my idea of fun. Dining chairs are simply never comfortable enough IMO, nor do people concentrate on the taste as they are too busy swapping tales etc
> 
> What stands out in my mind was the conversation I had with a waiter in a Moroccan restaurant in Cannes where he was recalling his visit to London the number of people he had seen there eating whilst out and about. He regarded it as one of the greatest freedoms we had as such an idea is totally unacceptable in Morocco and outwith the French psyche too.


It was totally outwith my psyche too when I was young. My rural working-class family had strict views about public (and private) behaviour and eating in the street 'wasn't nice'. This was reinforced at the girls' independent school to which I had won a scholarship...eating in the street in school uniform was a serious sin and, would you believe it, there were members of the public who would actually report girls who committed this heinous offence???
Maybe some of this has left its mark....

I think the main reason for my aversion to grazing is that I enjoy good food very much and I think it should be given respect and reverence, even. My grandmother was our cook at home and we ate very well as she was an excellent cook in the traditional English style. My granddad grew all our vegetables, we had fruit and currant trees and bushes and my grandmother's numerous nephews included butchers and fishmongers so we had excellent quality meat and fish. Some of the less respectable nephews were adept poachers so we had duck, hare and pheasant occasionally. Just writing this makes the juices flow....what I'd give for one of my Gran's Sunday roasts, beef with Yorkshires, roast spuds, parsnips and horseradish sauce - my job was to grate the horseradish.

So yes, I accept that some street food is of very good quality. But I would find it difficult to give equal attention to walking and savouring the food as it deserves.
But then I'm old and set in my ways, as I am beginning to discover.
(i am told I was like that when I was young but I didn't believe it....My ex-husband said I had spiritually never left the house I was born in and lived in until I left for Uni.)


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## ccm47

I just think that does reflect our own outlooks.
I too was brought up not to eat in the street, wear my full independent school uniform when travelling to and from school etc. and expect consequences if I didn't.
My grandfather not only grew veg for us in our garden but several neighbours' gardens as well as having an allotment and there were two professional cooks in the family. Thus most of our food was picked from a plot no more than 10 mins from home and cooked well. Surplus was common and was given away to neighbours and friends.
However I questioned what I was taught as being appropriate for me, accepted what suited me and rejected what didn't. Eating in a public place was by then tolerated as was not wearing a hat. So I do one and not the other.
I was also told dinghy sailing was "not for us", so I became an offshore yacht racer. On a boat that's racing food is very much fuel rather than pleasure, that suits me, it may not suit everybody.


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## Lellyowl

And how is it going now? I see your post was in 2007. Did you survive and still working in the food industry. I am thinking on similar lines, not Spanish food but something in.ine with the Spanish "sweet tooth!"
LH


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