# Benidorm? Wow, just wow...



## Dionysus (Jan 4, 2016)

First, let me start off by saying I hope I don't offend too many people here with my impressions; I feel like I am still a stranger, not having made enough posts to begin offending people, but I wanted to get input about this place called Benidorm.

What is it?!  Before researching for a place in the sun to retire to in Spain, I had never even heard of it. Either it's a well kept secret, or they don't market it well in the US. As far as I know, they don't market it period.

When I first heard of it in this forum, I Googled it and saw amazing photos, the beach, the water, etc. But something stood out, it did not look like the Spain I know. The high rise buildings were a clue. Up until this time, my memories of Spain were traditional, but I think I may have spoiled them.

When I met my (now) wife back in the 90's, we used to go backpacking to Europe, she always took me with her to her place of birth, Barcelona. We went every year until 2014, because of of our kids school activities. We traveled throughout Spain, from Barcelona to San Sebastian, Pamplona to Santiago de Compostela, to Sevilla, Granada, Zaragosa, etc. We used to take the train before the speed train was built and we would stop in many towns along the way. She has family in Vigo as well.

I've always loved the urban feel, the bars on almost every corner, the cafes and bakeries. The winding streets, the narrow streets in Sevilla, in Sitges, and almost any town we ever visited, even the 'modern' Barcelona.

Benidorm is new, and after doing a little research, I see that the city charter is not that old, which explains the layout, and the buildings, etc. To me it looks more like the Dubai of Spain, the Vegas of Spain, and the Miami Beach of Spain.

What do you all think of it? Are there many expats who retire there? At first I thought I could consider it, but then I saw this: 




Wow, just wow. If young Brits need that much to remind them of home, maybe they should just stay home. That is nothing of what Spain is like, not one bit. It looks horrible, people harassing you in the street to spend money at their business, British bar after British bar, sort of like what I'd expect in Thailand. How could Spain have allowed this to happen to this city? I thought people went to Spain to experience Spain. What I saw on that video is not what I know of Spain.

I feel like I've entered the Twilight Zone here, no one I asked at the office today has ever heard of Benidorm, not even my wife's family who lived in Barcelona. I guess they did not get out much. By the looks of it, everyone in the UK knows of it? What am I missing? Is life like the rest of Spain away from the tourist areas? Is it pricey? Give me your feedback. Thanks, and sorry if I've offended you in any way.


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## lorort (Dec 24, 2015)

Just watched the video and I agree WOW but not in a good way. It does have that Las Vegas strip kind of feel to it or Cancun. I know where I won't be settling. I just wonder how the locals feel about this, but I guess when your country's unemployment is through the roof you put up with this craziness. It made me kind of sad to see what some parts of Spain are becoming.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Dionysus said:


> First, let me start off by saying I hope I don't offend too many people here with my impressions; I feel like I am still a stranger, not having made enough posts to begin offending people, but I wanted to get input about this place called Benidorm.
> 
> What is it?!  Before researching for a place in the sun to retire to in Spain, I had never even heard of it. Either it's a well kept secret, or they don't market it well in the US. As far as I know, they don't market it period.
> 
> ...


I have only driven through Benidorm.
Yes the Spanish have chosen to ruin large parts of their territory, imo of course, by allowing money to be the major factor in development. It is thought to be the birthplace of package tourism with Franco and Fraga (Minister of tourism at the time) behind it. In Britain at one time it was known as sun, sex and sand tourism. Lots of young Brits (and other nationalities) go there precisely for those 3 reasons, but drink is also high on the list as it's a lot cheaper than the the UK and more freely available. So it's a potent mix.
On the other hand grey tourism is also really high. It's cheap and sunny and that's all a lot of people want.
Try Googling videos of Magaluf. Now that's really going to make your hair stand on end. And Salou. Another one used to be Tossa del Mar, but I don't hear about that so much nowadays...
Anyone who lives in Spain knows about Benidorm, but then maybe your inlaws don't think they live in Spain?
Spain really does have something for everyone, but as you're finding it's essential to do a bit of research beforehand


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## kalohi (May 6, 2012)

Dionysus said:


> Wow, just wow. If young Brits need that much to remind them of home, maybe they should just stay home. That is nothing of what Spain is like, not one bit. It looks horrible, people harassing you in the street to spend money at their business, British bar after British bar, sort of like what I'd expect in Thailand. How could Spain have allowed this to happen to this city? I thought people went to Spain to experience Spain. What I saw on that video is not what I know of Spain.


Spain is a country with very varied types of lifestyles. This is one of them. Spain depends on tourism to keep its economy going, and this kind of tourism can be found in many cities on the costas and islas. Benidorm is probably the most iconic.



Dionysus said:


> I feel like I've entered the Twilight Zone here, no one I asked at the office today has ever heard of Benidorm, not even my wife's family who lived in Barcelona. I guess they did not get out much. By the looks of it, everyone in the UK knows of it? What am I missing? Is life like the rest of Spain away from the tourist areas? Is it pricey? Give me your feedback. Thanks, and sorry if I've offended you in any way.


Everyone in Spain knows of Benidorm. In my opinion you are missing nothing...it's a place to go mainly for the wild nightlife and chicas in bikinis. Not my thing. But obviously there are plenty of people who thinks it's great.


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## SandraP (Apr 23, 2014)

A woman I work with holidays in Benidorm several times a year, she wont go anywhere else. When asked why she said that you can't see great bands anywhere else & cheap drink. Mind you she also spends many weekends of the year in Blackpool. She doesn't understand why I like to go places and see a bit of culture and beautiful buildings & scenery or unusual pieces of art etc.


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## Pazcat (Mar 24, 2010)

Never really been into Benidorm proper but we have gone to the zoo's and theme parks on the outskirts and I am thankful for them having that kind of entertainment available at least.


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## CampelloMan (Jan 19, 2016)

To be honest it's actually quite a nice place to visit. Years ago (and we're talking 30!) I worked there for a couple of years when I first came to live in Spain. I didn't speak Spanish then, so I commuted in from Alicante every day.

Everyone I meet always "holds their noses" when talking about Benidorm but it's got lovely beaches, loads of entertainment and it's cheap - so I totally get why people go back year after year. When I've taken UK family members, they've always been pleasantly surprised.

As Pazcat says above, it has theme parks and there is still "life" in the Winter months, even when the other towns on the coast are empty and dark. I wouldn't go near the place in July or August - but you can say that about most tourist resorts.

The old town area is worth a visit and there's a pretty lively Spanish tapas scene going on - even though most Brits never find it. I also feel safer in Benidorm than in Barcelona, particularly after dark, but that's just my personal opinion.


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## Chopera (Apr 22, 2013)

Pesky Wesky said:


> ...Another one used to be Tossa del Mar, but I don't hear about that so much nowadays...


We went to Tossa last summer and could not understand where that reputation came from. OK it was September, but it just came across as a quiet, picturesque and unassuming place, with no real high rise, Brit bars, or all day breakfasts to be seen.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

As P W says, Spain is a big country. Like most other countries it has many different facets.
One thing must be made clear: Benidorm IS Spain. It's as Spanish as a white-walled mountain pueblo. It has not been dropped from some alien planet. It was created and developed by canny farsighted Spaniards. It gives immense pleasure to millions. It is a different knd of Spain, just as Barcelona and Seville are different.
Like any pleasure park anywhere, Benidorm attracts the less decorous crowd as well as families enjoying a comparatively cheap summer holiday. Nothing unique about that. I read that posh ski resorts like Klosters and Verviers are attracting a loud, boozy crowd, 'lowering the tone'. I dare say prim Victorians tutted at the antics of the proles in Southend and Yarmouth.
Benidorm has become a symbol for a certain type of experience, one not to my taste or that of many people. It's not Sodom or Gomorrah, it is brash, in your face and vulgar and a good thing too since a bit of vulgarity from time to time isgood, it looses you up.
And, as I always say, sobre los gustos.....


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## Chopera (Apr 22, 2013)

CampelloMan said:


> To be honest it's actually quite a nice place to visit. Years ago (and we're talking 30!) I worked there for a couple of years when I first came to live in Spain. I didn't speak Spanish then, so I commuted in from Alicante every day.
> 
> Everyone I meet always "holds their noses" when talking about Benidorm but it's got lovely beaches, loads of entertainment and it's cheap - so I totally get why people go back year after year. When I've taken UK family members, they've always been pleasantly surprised.
> 
> ...


I agree. Benidorm just does what it says on the tin and it does it well. I believe the majority of holidaymakers there are in fact Spanish anyway, but for many Brits looking for a holiday it ticks all the boxes: clean beaches, plenty of entertainment, a familiar feel, and no real need to deal with another culture if you don't want to.


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## Isobella (Oct 16, 2014)

If you know Spain well I am surprised you hadn't heard of Benidorm:confused2: was popular even in the 70's, probably one of the first places to offer package holidays and build high rise hotels. Not always rowdy, full of British, German etc pensioners getting some winter warmth.

A couple of contradictory threads recently, one where I was slated for having the audacity to criticise the place.


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## Rabbitcat (Aug 31, 2014)

Well I like Benidorm as I leave my car for long term parking in sticky Vicky until I return to Spain


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## Horlics (Sep 27, 2011)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Anyone who lives in Spain knows about Benidorm, but then maybe your inlaws don't think they live in Spain?


Loved this bit!


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## DunWorkin (Sep 2, 2010)

I live 30 minutes tram ride from Benidorm and visit there about once a week at this time of year. I also stay there for a couple of nights from time to time - in fact I have just come back from a weekend there with friends.

I have been visiting there since the last 1960s and really like it.

There are several different areas of Benidorm, each with a different character.

There is the old town with lots of shops, bars and restaurants. This has a more Spanish feel than the rest of Benidorm. It is also known as the gay area with lots of gay bars and drag shows.

There is what is called 'new town' which is the area that most English people centre around. There are English bars and restaurants and some very lively nightlife.

There are 2 main beaches - Poniente and Levante - one on either side of the old town headland. The Poniente side is more for families and older people. The Levante side is more for the party crowd. In spring and early summer there can be a lot of stag and hen groups staying a few nights.

Another area is called Rincon de Loix (or normally just Rincon). This is at the far end of Levante beach with a main road containing lots of restaurants and night clubs leading up to Benidorm Palace where you can have a meal and see a show. The shows there are as good as many I have seen in Las Vegas.

There is something for everyone in Benidorm. Theme parks, water parks, great beaches, good weather most of the year, cheap drink, all types of restaurant from fast food to top end dining.

I would never want to live there (as I am sure most Americans would not want to live in Las Vegas) but it is a great place to visit if you want a fun filled few days. Just don't take the place too seriously.


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## Horlics (Sep 27, 2011)

Shall I post a video of Vegas and tell stories of the time I crossed the country stopping at small towns and eating in chrome diners.

US has Vegas. Cyprus has Aya Napa. Mid East has Dubai. UK has Blackpool. 

Never mind your wife's relatives getting out much, do you?


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## Horlics (Sep 27, 2011)

mrypg9 said:


> As P W says, Spain is a big country. Like most other countries it has many different facets.
> One thing must be made clear: Benidorm IS Spain. It's as Spanish as a white-walled mountain pueblo.


I have a Spanish friend who lives in Alcoy, and when he wants a night by the beach he takes the hour long trip to Benidorm. The Spaniards love it too.


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## Isobella (Oct 16, 2014)

Horlics said:


> I have a Spanish friend who lives in Alcoy, and when he wants a night by the beach he takes the hour long trip to Benidorm. The Spaniards love it too.


Yes, they do like it. Just googled 'como es Benidorm' and lots of stuff. This is 10 good things about Benidorm in easy t o understand Spanish. Some comments at the end.


10 cosas buenas que tiene Benidorm >> El Viajero Astuto >> Blogs EL PAÍS


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Isobella said:


> If you know Spain well I am surprised you hadn't heard of Benidorm:confused2: was popular even in the 70's, probably one of the first places to offer package holidays and build high rise hotels. Not always rowdy, full of British, German etc pensioners getting some winter warmth.
> 
> A couple of contradictory threads recently, one where I was slated for having the audacity to criticise the place.


You didn't criticise the place, you commented on the lifestyles of some people who live there. Perfectly reasonable, in my opinion. Look through previous threads and you'll see adverse comments about people who live in Britzones, vote UKIP, spend all day on the beach.
From what I have read, the growth of Benidorm and similar purpose-designed tourist areas played a major role in creating the economic prosperity that put Spain back on its feet after the stagnation of the Franco years. It also contributed to a relaxing of strict social conventions and taboos with its at the time 'daring' bikini beach culture.
I travelled through Spain as a student in the 1960s, 1967 I think it was. At that time many of the Benidorm highrises were in the process of construction. I posted a photo of that some months ago. Alicante was small and sedate, Torrevieja was a village surrounded by salt flats and orange groves. Very Spanish and piss poor.
I doubt the local businesspeople and those they employ turn up their noses or deplore the 'unSpanish' character of these resorts. 
We Brits love putting places, customs and lifestyles in a hierarchy. We all do it, even as we deplore it. People on this Forum have cheerfully admitted to being 'cultural snobs'. I think I'm one, tbh. But if there weren't places like Benidorm ,Alicante, Torremolinos, those who shun them in their search for the 'real Spain' would have nothing to feel superior about, would they...


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Rabbitcat said:


> Well I like Benidorm as I leave my car for long term parking in sticky Vicky until I return to Spain


Of course...Benidorm and Sticky Vicky ....I'd forgotten about Sticky Vicky, of whose existence I was unaware until Isobella kindly enlightened me in a previous thread and I undertook further research.
Again I have to say....sobre los gustos..


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

*I thought people went to Spain to experience Spain*.

I've just reread the OP and that sentence sticks in my mind.
I had to look up Benidorm on the map to reassure myself that yes, it was still in Spain, firmly attached, had not floated off to join Blackpool or Vegas.
Thankfully. The Spaniards would miss it.


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## tarot650 (Sep 30, 2007)

Late 60's early 70's three main resorts Lloret De Mar,Benidorm and Torremolinos.Wish I had a euro for all the donkeys and sombreros that were fetched back.Brought a lot of pleasure to a lot of people but like the passing of time these resorts have had to adapt to what people want but have been told by a friend that this year might see a big increase in tourism due to what has happened in Egypt and Turkey.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Horlics said:


> I have a Spanish friend who lives in Alcoy, and when he wants a night by the beach he takes the hour long trip to Benidorm. The Spaniards love it too.


I know at least 2 Spanish people who love going to Beni with their families. One woman was brought up there and goes back at every opportunity. The other is a grandmother whose daughter and English husband live there. It seems that if you want the bawdy, in yer face drinking and puking holiday you can have it, but you can also have, as others on here have said, a fairly cheap sunny break with a lot of British food and British influence (entertainment, information, people around you), or you can also get a Spanish feel holiday too.
It's not for me first and foremost for the sheer number of people, but also I'm not fond of that area in general, very dry and hot (I've been along the coast from Calpe to Benidorm) and I do prefer, when in Spain, to be among the Spanish... Just a personal preference.. However, I do understand why people like to visit, but I can't see the pleasure of living in Benidorm.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Dionysus said:


> First, let me start off by saying I hope I don't offend too many people here with my impressions; I feel like I am still a stranger, not having made enough posts to begin offending people, but I wanted to get input about this place called Benidorm.
> 
> What is it?!  Before researching for a place in the sun to retire to in Spain, I had never even heard of it. Either it's a well kept secret, or they don't market it well in the US. As far as I know, they don't market it period.
> 
> ...


Benidorm, like many other resorts on the Mediterranean coast (and later the Canary Islands), was developed specifically for low-budget tourism during the latter part of the Franco regime. It coincided with the growth of cheap charter flights from Northern Europe.

As someone said earlier, it is as much a part of Spain as the Alhambra in Granada (which has a similar number of overseas visitors). You probably wouldn't want to live in either of these places, but fortunately Spain is big enough and diverse enough to provide for all tastes. There are still plenty of sleepy little towns with bars on every corner and the smell of freshly-baked bread coming from the local _horno_ (I live in one). Good hunting!


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Here is the Wiki on Benidorm. 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benidorm
Here's an interesting Wikifact (ie is it really a fact?)



> In 1952 Benidorm’s fishing industry went into decline; a factor in encouraging the town council to approve many new development plans aimed at the tourist market.


So the fishing industry was in decline first. It wasn't tourism that made it decline.
And here's another


> Benidorm has the most high-rise buildings per capita in the world.


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## Maureen47 (Mar 27, 2014)

I think Benidorm has something for everyone, parts of the old town are really beautiful with menu del dia and tapas available. There is a degree of snobbery thats goes on with places like Benidorm , go with the flow and give it a go. Its exactly the same in our village , there are according to some folks desirable places to live as a Brit and others not so, we live as these folks refer to it on 'the dark side' , I rather like where I live and cant see the point of a couple living in a six bedroom villa have a crazy hectic life that Benidorm can offer but as long as you are happy with your choice then thats ok too. Its far too easy to be judgmental about other peoples life choices , as long as they arent hurting anyone then live and let live.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

maureen47 said:


> I think Benidorm has something for everyone, parts of the old town are really beautiful with menu del dia and tapas available. There is a degree of snobbery thats goes on with places like Benidorm , go with the flow and give it a go. Its exactly the same in our village , there are according to some folks desirable places to live as a Brit and others not so, we live as these folks refer to it on 'the dark side' , I rather like where I live and cant see the point of a couple living in a six bedroom villa have a crazy hectic life that Benidorm can offer but as long as you are happy with your choice then thats ok too. Its far too easy to be judgmental about other peoples life choices , as long as they arent hurting anyone then live and let live.


Hmmm I tend to agree with you Maureen, and I've learnt to be a lot more accepting of other people's lifestyles to some extent through this forum and also by visiting some of the so called "Brit enclaves". It's not for me, but


> as long as they arent hurting anyone then live and let live.


But I think the drink/ easy drug, puke it up on the street brigade do hurt, they do do damage.
I also find it difficult to comprehend and also accept the way large areas of Spanish coastline have been virtually destroyed by building, no matter how tasteful (or not), roads, golf courses etc leaving not only these areas but all around devoid of water, more susceptible to desertification, erosion and pollution.

Thinking of another thread I wonder which view is seen as more PC or more OTT - Live and let live or The environmentalist


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## Horlics (Sep 27, 2011)

Pesky Wesky said:


> I know at least 2 Spanish people who love going to Beni with their families. One woman was brought up there and goes back at every opportunity. The other is a grandmother whose daughter and English husband live there. It seems that if you want the bawdy, in yer face drinking and puking holiday you can have it, but you can also have, as others on here have said, a fairly cheap sunny break with a lot of British food and British influence (entertainment, information, people around you), or you can also get a Spanish feel holiday too.
> It's not for me first and foremost for the sheer number of people, but also I'm not fond of that area in general, very dry and hot (I've been along the coast from Calpe to Benidorm) and I do prefer, when in Spain, to be among the Spanish... Just a personal preference.. However, I do understand why people like to visit, but I can't see the pleasure of living in Benidorm.


I wouldn't live there, it would be one of the last places I would choose. But it is possible to have very different kinds of holidays as you say. I stayed at a hotel at the very southern end of the beach a few years ago, a very traditional hotel beautifully decorated and full of heavy dark wood furniture. A very Spanish feel right down to the waiters who hardly spoke any English.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Hmmm I tend to agree with you Maureen, and I've learnt to be a lot more accepting of other people's lifestyles to some extent through this forum and also by visiting some of the so called "Brit enclaves". It's not for me, but
> But I think the drink/ easy drug, puke it up on the street brigade do hurt, they do do damage.
> I also find it difficult to comprehend and also accept the way large areas of Spanish coastline have been virtually destroyed by building, no matter how tasteful (or not), roads, golf courses etc leaving not only these areas but all around devoid of water, more susceptible to desertification, erosion and pollution.
> 
> Thinking of another thread I wonder which view is seen as more PC or more OTT - Live and let live or The environmentalist



Tasteless or tasteful building isn't found only in Spain. Have you travelled to the South of France lately, or many other parts of France, come to that... Or the coast around Naples? Or around Venice? Or Florida?
Even unspoilt parts of the Czech countryside are being transformed by estates of modern housing. There are many beautiful parts of the CR....a lovely cherry orchard near where I lived was slowly being built over with bungalow type dwellings. The tiny village nearby had an estate of large imo rather vulgar 'executive' type houses built on the outskirts.
Nothing to be done. People demand houses and holidays. Golf brings money and jobs. I'm not sure what point in time we'd like to go back to....buildings considered ugly by contemporaries centuries ago now get preservation orders.
I'm lucky in that I live on a relatively unspoilt - but short - stretch of the coast, no high rise. It's true there are some ugly parts of all the costas, some ugly inland towns and villages too. All that can be done is to try to introduce some element of aesthetics into planning but from what I've seen, planning is done very differently inSpain than the UK.
More and more people are coming to Europe, to live or on holiday.
Over a million migrants last year, more expected this year. Chinese, Russians and others vacationing in Europe. 
Unstoppable.


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## bob_bob (Jan 5, 2011)

mrypg9 said:


> Of course...Benidorm and Sticky Vicky ....I'd forgotten about Sticky Vicky, of whose existence I was unaware until Isobella kindly enlightened me in a previous thread and I undertook further research.
> Again I have to say....sobre los gustos..



Sticky Vicky has retired but panic not, here daughter has taken the helm 

Another good video here, programme starts 1:50 in


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## Isobella (Oct 16, 2014)

Nice to see the Daughter following her Mother in her career choice


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## Chica22 (Feb 26, 2010)

As some other posters have said, Benidorm does have its mix of Spanish holidaymakers as well as tourists, mainly from the UK.

In September, we were visiting family in Castellon, so decided to stay in Benidorm for two nights en route. We had never visited Benidorm but have a number of neighbours (English) who visit at least 2 or 3 times a year.

It took me hours to reseach a suitable hotel, we didnt want all inclusive, we didnt want a party time but wanted to be in the centre of Benidorm. I finally found a hotel, which did not have any reviews from English people on Trip Advisor only Spanish (very unusual) and booked the hotel.

We had booked 'room only' but on checking in, the receptionist asked us if we wanted full board for 3 euros per person per day!!!!! At that price we could not refuse, just to see what was offered for one euro per head per meal. We were also told we had to pay 30 euros deposit if we wanted to have the remote control for the TV!!!! Do people really 'steal' remote controls these days???

The hotel was fully booked, I was the only English person at the hotel. The evening meal was a 'bun fight' with the Spanish, pushing in the queue outside the dining room waiting for a table, running to the buffet to get the 'best food'. Drinks were free, which consisted of 3 large water canisters, one with water, one with diluted orange, and one with red wine!!!! 

Each night, there was 'entertainment' which consisted of a 'man with an organ' playing the typical 'old' Spanish tunes. The Spanish were dancing and partying until the early hours.

My point is, I realised Benidorm is really a fun place for both Spanish and English alike, and attracts a certain type of person irrespective of their Nationality.

We enjoyed the experience, it was certainly different from other 'tourist' resorts we have visited, but is probably not a place I would return.


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## Dionysus (Jan 4, 2016)

*Huh?!*

I wish someone would have given us Americans a warning! 

I've never heard of 'Sticky Vicky', so I Googled, 'Sticky Vicky Wiki', no kidding. No wiki, but I found images. Oh my!  'Didn't bother reading what she did once I saw an image with that name and something about a 'Magic Vagina'. Must be entertaining I'm sure.  I'm learning more about Benidorm than I could have dreamed of.


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## Horlics (Sep 27, 2011)

Sticky Vicky is what we might describe as an institution. I think there are many people who go so that they can say they did, probably more than those who go to actually see the talent on display. I gave in and looked her up on Youtube and I have to say, she ain't that good. I've seen far more impressive feats performed by vaginas in Thailand and Prague.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Horlics said:


> Sticky Vicky is what we might describe as an institution. I think there are many people who go so that they can say they did, probably more than those who go to actually see the talent on display. I gave in and looked her up on Youtube and I have to say, she ain't that good. I've seen far more impressive feats performed by vaginas in Thailand and Prague.


Intriguing. I don't suppose the Mods will allow you to elaborate.


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## Dionysus (Jan 4, 2016)

*Ha...*



Horlics said:


> Sticky Vicky is what we might describe as an institution. I think there are many people who go so that they can say they did, probably more than those who go to actually see the talent on display. I gave in and looked her up on Youtube and I have to say, she ain't that good. I've seen far more impressive feats performed by vaginas in Thailand and Prague.


'Sounds like you've been around the block a few times there, Horlics. Ha...


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

mrypg9 said:


> Intriguing. I don't suppose the Mods will allow you to elaborate.


PMs please.
I really don't want to know!


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## Isobella (Oct 16, 2014)

Chica22 said:


> We had booked 'room only' but on checking in, the receptionist asked us if we wanted full board for 3 euros per person per day!!!!! At that price we could not refuse, just to see what was offered for one euro per head per meal. We were also told we had to pay 30 euros deposit if we wanted to have the remote control for the TV!!!! Do people really 'steal' remote controls these days???
> 
> The hotel was fully booked, I was the only English person at the hotel. The evening meal was a 'bun fight' with the Spanish, pushing in the queue outside the dining room waiting for a table, running to the buffet to get the 'best food'. Drinks were free, which consisted of 3 large water canisters, one with water, one with diluted orange, and one with red wine!!!!
> 
> ...


Had to smile. About 15 years ago we booked a cruise with a Spanish line, leaving from Malaga. Probably even worse than a bun fight pushing and shoving for everything, getting on and off the ship, served in the shops. The buffet could turn you anorexic. Around 95% were Spanish. It was a scrum, dog eat dog. Half way through the week I learnt from them how to use your elbows for maximum domination or if all else fails tread on people's feet.

Not bad getting served at the bars as alcohol was not included. Didn't stop them taking up all the seats with two drinking beer and another eight sat without drinks! The ship was a dump, beds like camp beds. Food was slop. Have been on better car ferries. Read afterwards it was fifty years old and was used when Russia was still Communist. So the Spanish got it cheap. Not very stable, always seemed to have a list and lots of vomit around.

We went with the flow, had lots of giggles and the Ports were good but I think I would rather do Blackpool than go through that again. It was cheap, even then we didn't get what we paid for


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## jimenato (Nov 21, 2009)

You've reinforced my conviction that I never want to go on a cruise.


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## The Skipper (Nov 26, 2014)

During the low season Benidorm is packed with Spanish pensioners who take advantage of the Imserso subsidised holidays provided by the Spanish Government and it can be quite a pleasant place for a day out. Whenever we have friends from the UK staying with us we tend to take them to Benidorm because the road from our house to the coast passes through spectacular mountain scenery and Guadalest is always worth a stop for a beer before reaching the coast. During July and August, especially at the "British end" (Rincon) the place is best avoided, especially at night. The behaviour of UK holidaymakers can make you ashamed to be British. My Spanish friends, in fact, told me there was a documentary on Spanish TV a few years ago about the British in Benidorm and hotel cleaners who were interviewed talked about the disgusting mess that was found in bedrooms. I can't bear to repeat what they said!


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## Maureen47 (Mar 27, 2014)

The Skipper said:


> During the low season Benidorm is packed with Spanish pensioners who take advantage of the Imserso subsidised holidays provided by the Spanish Government and it can be quite a pleasant place for a day out. Whenever we have friends from the UK staying with us we tend to take them to Benidorm because the road from our house to the coast passes through spectacular mountain scenery and Guadalest is always worth a stop for a beer before reaching the coast. During July and August, especially at the "British end" (Rincon) the place is best avoided, especially at night. The behaviour of UK holidaymakers can make you ashamed to be British. My Spanish friends, in fact, told me there was a documentary on Spanish TV a few years ago about the British in Benidorm and hotel cleaners who were interviewed talked about the disgusting mess that was found in bedrooms. I can't bear to repeat what they said!


Having seen a few TV programmes about Brits abroad , this seems to happen in many places , I dont understand why they feel the need to 'trash' hotel rooms or maybe thats what they do at home and how they live . My kids have been all over the world with groups and as couples and I would hate to think they did not respect the properties they were staying in. I think it boils down to a minority who feel its ok to behave like this , I know I said 'iive and let live' in my post but this was about having fun and not hurting anyone , clearly this behaviour has a hurtful impact on people.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Our esteemed Prime Minister, Chancellor and the current Mayor of London did a lot of trashing of restaurants when they were members of the prestigious Bullingdon Club at Oxford.
But they had a whip round and paid for the damage so I suppose that was alright then....


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## Isobella (Oct 16, 2014)

The Skipper said:


> During July and August, especially at the "British end" (Rincon) the place is best avoided, especially at night. The behaviour of UK holidaymakers can make you ashamed to be British. My Spanish friends, in fact, told me there was a documentary on Spanish TV a few years ago about the British in Benidorm and hotel cleaners who were interviewed talked about the disgusting mess that was found in bedrooms. I can't bear to repeat what they said!


I am never ashamed to be British. I don't see myself being responsible for the behaviour of a minority of 66 million Brits. have seen Dutch and German youth behaving badly too in Torremolinos. Not to mention all the complaints about botellones in Spain. College kids in America have their binges too. Just they don't have channel5 etc to big up bad behaviour. Of course would be nice if everyone behaved like the Chinese tourists but it could be said they have things to be ashamed of too.

See ashamed to be British comment frequently on here. Daily Mail comments and a few journalists from the Guardian etc use it. Ashamed of a country which gives more overseas aid than every country in the world. Benefits to foreigners who have contributed nothing. Free entrance to the amazing National Gallery, British Museum where other countries charge. 

We are also supposed to be ashamed of our colonial past although most other powerful countries did the same. I refuse to be a hand wringing apologist


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Isobella said:


> I am never ashamed to be British. I don't see myself being responsible for the behaviour of a minority of 66 million Brits. have seen Dutch and German youth behaving badly too in Torremolinos. Not to mention all the complaints about botellones in Spain. College kids in America have their binges too. Just they don't have channel5 etc to big up bad behaviour. Of course would be nice if everyone behaved like the Chinese tourists but it could be said they have things to be ashamed of too.
> 
> See ashamed to be British comment frequently on here. Daily Mail comments and a few journalists from the Guardian etc use it. Ashamed of a country which gives more overseas aid than every country in the world. Benefits to foreigners who have contributed nothing. Free entrance to the amazing National Gallery, British Museum where other countries charge.
> 
> We are also supposed to be ashamed of our colonial past although most other powerful countries did the same. I refuse to be a hand wringing apologist


Yes, we do tend to enjoy doing ourselves down. How many times have we seen posts with sentiments like 'I can't wait to get out of the hell-hole that is the UK' variety. I can't recall ever seeing comments along the lines of 'I'm ashamed to be German/American' and I can't imagine anyone saying they were ashamed to be French, mon Dieu!!

Like you I've seen bad behaviour from nationalities other than British. We aren't the world's only drunken louts. Neither do I go along with 'everything in Spain is better than in the UK' apart of course from the weather. I enjoyed good fresh produce of all kinds in the UK, in fact some things were better, and although people in Spain are on the whole more friendly and sociable not every person in the UK is a snarling anti-social curmudgeon.

As for our Imperial past.....Spain and Belgium, to name just two Western Imperial powers, didn't treat their colonial subjects with kid gloves. We do indeed have much to be proud of......the first Parliament, the first welfare state, our comparative transparency and probity in public life - no comparison with Spain or states in other parts of the world. It's unimaginable that the Mayors of Margate, Eastbourne, Brighton, Portsmouth, Dover, Folkestone would be locked up or charged with various offences of corruption but that's the comparable situation where I am. David Cameron may be a heartless grinder of the poor into the dust but unlike Rajoy he hasn't been discovered having a slush fund in Switzerland or somewhere.

We also have in our national psyche those wonderful expressions of autonomy: 'Who do you think you are?' and 'I know my rights'. Not many of the world's citizens find those phrases springing so readily to their lips.


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## Isobella (Oct 16, 2014)

Running down your own country isn't new. Was surprised to read this from George Orwell. (Although I don.'t think it is just lefties) 

"Why are the left embarrassed by patriotism? England is perhaps the only great country whose intellectuals are ashamed of their own nationality. In left wing circles it is always felt that there is something disgraceful in being an Englishman and that it is a duty to snigger at every English institution from horse racing to suet pudding."

From an article in New Statesman this week. 

Why are so many on the left embarrassed by patriotism?


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Isobella said:


> Running down your own country isn't new. Was surprised to read this from George Orwell. (Although I don.'t think it is just lefties)
> 
> "Why are the left embarrassed by patriotism? England is perhaps the only great country whose intellectuals are ashamed of their own nationality. In left wing circles it is always felt that there is something disgraceful in being an Englishman and that it is a duty to snigger at every English institution from horse racing to suet pudding."
> 
> ...


Thanks for that. Expresses my views, more or less. And Orwell is one of my three favourite authors ( Tolstoy and George Eliot the other two).


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Isobella said:


> Running down your own country isn't new. Was surprised to read this from George Orwell. (Although I don.'t think it is just lefties)
> 
> "Why are the left embarrassed by patriotism? England is perhaps the only great country whose intellectuals are ashamed of their own nationality.* In left wing circles it is always felt that there is something disgraceful in being an Englishman* and that it is a duty to snigger at every English institution from horse racing to suet pudding."
> 
> ...


I don't think that's the case (sorry Eric). Not sure if I qualify as a "left wing English intellectual" but I've certainly met a few and I don't recognise that attitude, quite the opposite. Is it not possible to be proud of the good things done by English citizens or institutions while at the same time deploring the bad things? 

The sort of patriotism that irritates me personally is the attitude parodied in the Flanders and Swann song that I posted on the national anthem thread, "The English are best", i.e. that sense of superiority and entitlement which you still encounter occasionally amongst people from all walks of life. For example, Nigel Lawson going on about the EU the other day said "they need us more than we need them, so of course they'll give into our demands". Or the boozy British holiday-makers with the attitude that "we can do what we like because they need our money". 

That "us and them" attitude is so arrogant. We're all human beings, let's be proud of what our fellow-countrymen do well and honest about what we get wrong.


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## DunWorkin (Sep 2, 2010)

I think we have wandered a bit off subject


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Alcalaina said:


> I don't think that's the case (sorry Eric). Not sure if I qualify as a "left wing English intellectual" but I've certainly met a few and I don't recognise that attitude, quite the opposite. Is it not possible to be proud of the good things done by English citizens or institutions while at the same time deploring the bad things?
> 
> The sort of patriotism that irritates me personally is the attitude parodied in the Flanders and Swann song that I posted on the national anthem thread, "The English are best", i.e. that sense of superiority and entitlement which you still encounter occasionally amongst people from all walks of life. For example, Nigel Lawson going on about the EU the other day said "they need us more than we need them, so of course they'll give into our demands". Or the boozy British holiday-makers with the attitude that "we can do what we like because they need our money".
> 
> That "us and them" attitude is so arrogant. We're all human beings, let's be proud of what our fellow-countrymen do well and honest about what we get wrong.


A breath of fresh air.
A bit of honesty goes a long way


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Alcalaina said:


> I don't think that's the case (sorry Eric). Not sure if I qualify as a "left wing English intellectual" but I've certainly met a few and I don't recognise that attitude, quite the opposite. Is it not possible to be proud of the good things done by English citizens or institutions while at the same time deploring the bad things?
> 
> The sort of patriotism that irritates me personally is the attitude parodied in the Flanders and Swann song that I posted on the national anthem thread, "The English are best", i.e. that sense of superiority and entitlement which you still encounter occasionally amongst people from all walks of life. For example, Nigel Lawson going on about the EU the other day said "they need us more than we need them, so of course they'll give into our demands". Or the boozy British holiday-makers with the attitude that "we can do what we like because they need our money".
> 
> That "us and them" attitude is so arrogant. We're all human beings, let's be proud of what our fellow-countrymen do well and honest about what we get wrong.


I have never encountered that English 'sense of superiority and entitlement' of which you speak, not in the circles I'm used to at least and it wasn't those attitudes the piece was discussing. So PW's 'fresh air and honesty' don't come into it.
I have however observed instances of yobbish behaviour from Brits..Germans, Czechs, Dutch, Americans.....

The New Statesman article was not interested in the attitudes you highlight. If anything it was discussing and deploring the fact that 'internationalism' rather than patriotism is a pronounced component of left-wing thought be it British, which the NS piece focused on, German, Spanish, whatever.
After all, Karl did say 'Workers of the world unite', not 'Workers of Britain, Spain etc.'

These questions are most likely coming to the fore because of the migrant issue, the old 'charity begins at home' as against 'we are all fellow humans' which of course we are, doesn't need pointing out, really. It's about priorities.


Lawson was very obviously making a political and economic point (which may be true) and not a jingoistic boast.


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## Isobella (Oct 16, 2014)

Ashamed is different. I can do plenty of whinging about the UK. Especially over a bottle of vino don't feel particularly proud either, just happy in my own skin. I think on the whole the UK is a caring and compassionate country compared to most of the rest of the world.

What Lawson said was true and is an important fact in the debate. Nothing to do with being ashamed or jingoistic.


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## therese1 (Jan 28, 2016)

DunWorkin said:


> I think we have wandered a bit off subject


We have. I'd like to wander further.
Spent a couple of hours in benidorm very recently, didn't see any mad embarrassing incidents. The beach is quite lovely. The drag is no more tacky than Magaluf or Fuengirola or wherever.
But Benidorm truly is the capital of the motorised disabled buggy. Or, as my friend called it the fatty buggy. There is disquiet about the amount of folks descending on the resort for the winter who hire buggies en masse. They rule the beach front. Some are souped up.

Agree we wouldn't all be able to get here if it wasn't for such resorts. My Alicante fight was full. I love Spain. So do the folks who go to the same place in Benidorm every year. But we're all responsible for what we do and taking liberties to the extent of being hospitalised or having police squads patrol holiday 'hotspots' is beyond the pale. I wish the holiday or eco taxes were confined to the resorts because they hoover up many of the expensive resources in managing excessive behaviour.
I should say that in winter it is popular with elderly Spanish visitors also, they were small and prim though and didn't require buggies.


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## therese1 (Jan 28, 2016)

mrypg9 said:


> I have never encountered that English 'sense of superiority and entitlement' of which you speak, not in the circles I'm used to at least and it wasn't those attitudes the piece was discussing. So PW's 'fresh air and honesty' don't come into it.
> I have however observed instances of yobbish behaviour from Brits..Germans, Czechs, Dutch, Americans.....
> 
> The New Statesman article was not interested in the attitudes you highlight. If anything it was discussing and deploring the fact that 'internationalism' rather than patriotism is a pronounced component of left-wing thought be it British, which the NS piece focused on, German, Spanish, whatever.
> ...


There was a fascinating programme on today about the East india company in Calcutta. There is very much an attitude of superiority towards economic and war migrants. it ignores the crude exploitation and the vast wealth and political meddling in huge swathes of all of the continent, by British, French, Spanish and so on.
it isn't about self-hating lefties at all. But we cannot dress up what they did as pioneering while denying folk now attempting to escape from poverty and war. Or we can, and dress them in red bracelets or yellow stars. And take in a pitiful amount compared to other countries. We'll be called out for it. We deserve to be. Particularly those of us who've swanned about the world deciding where we'd like to live and decided ourselves when we should up sticks.


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## The Skipper (Nov 26, 2014)

therese1 said:


> We have. I'd like to wander further.
> Spent a couple of hours in benidorm very recently, didn't see any mad embarrassing incidents. The beach is quite lovely. The drag is no more tacky than Magaluf or Fuengirola or wherever.
> But Benidorm truly is the capital of the motorised disabled buggy. Or, as my friend called it the fatty buggy. There is disquiet about the amount of folks descending on the resort for the winter who hire buggies en masse. They rule the beach front. Some are souped up.
> 
> ...


The "motorised buggies" are known as Madge-mobiles. You need to watch an old episode of the UK TV comedy show "Benidorm" to find out why!


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## therese1 (Jan 28, 2016)

Isobella said:


> Ashamed is different. I can do plenty of whinging about the UK. Especially over a bottle of vino don't feel particularly proud either, just happy in my own skin. I think on the whole the UK is a caring and compassionate country compared to most of the rest of the world.
> 
> What Lawson said was true and is an important fact in the debate. Nothing to do with being ashamed or jingoistic.


The OP had a little whinge about benidorm. We were all quick to point out that it wasn't representative either of British folk or of Spain.
There's a view of asylum seekers and migrants which is equally narrow. It conforms crudely to 'they're taking our jobs, filling our houses, raping our women…' 
It was blown out of the water quite literally by a 3 year old kid.
And further undermined when the much trumpeted amount we've spent on refugee camps was shown up as folly - the camps are empty. Who would live there? 
We went to war in iraq and Afghanistan on the back of jingoistic breast-beating. Up to our necks in the outcome, and should be willing to enter into european wide agreements as to how we manage the situation. Is this likely? No, we're busy contemplating an exit strategy from the much maligned europe at the exact time it could and should be to the fore in easing the plight of refugees.
Cannot see anything factual about what Lawson said, ranks with Cameron's bunch of migrants crass comment. Let's do crass while folk are drowning. Nothing british about it, chimes with folk of that political bent throughout Europe. Likewise the compassionate response doesn't recognise national boundaries. I'm proud of that.


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## Isobella (Oct 16, 2014)

What a load of tripe. We are discussing Benidorm not the rights and wrongs of Europe, migrants, drowning kids whatever. Stick to the topic. Yawn. Get off your soapbox.


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## Horlics (Sep 27, 2011)

therese1 said:


> ....The drag is no more tacky than Magaluf or Fuengirola or wherever.


Glad to see this. I was in Benidorm not too long ago and thought that as it is (seemingly) singled out as mainland Spain's Brits-abroad hell hole, my memory of the CDS must be playing tricks. I remember a visit to Benalmadena a few years ago and leaving with the strong desire to never see the place again.


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## therese1 (Jan 28, 2016)

Isobella said:


> What a load of tripe. We are discussing Benidorm not the rights and wrongs of Europe, migrants, drowning kids whatever. Stick to the topic. Yawn. Get off your soapbox.


I also was discussing Benidorm until someone veered right and made non topic observations. which I responded to.
I'm new so not sure what is allowed etc.
Feels a bit like wandering into the daily mail comments section.
Beep beep isobella reversing her soap box as she doesn't take kindly to anyone who disagrees with her. 
Good of you to ignore the points I raised while continuing the Cameron/Lawson crass dismissal of migrants. (Another 30 of the pesky blighters drowned yesterday)
Wouldn't dream of posting the yawn comment at anyone but go right ahead with your curious version of forum etiquette.


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## Isobella (Oct 16, 2014)

You are new, are you sure.


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## Isobella (Oct 16, 2014)

This anyone still watching the series? This week everyone looked burnt to a crisp.


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## raynard (Nov 26, 2014)

The Skipper said:


> The "motorised buggies" are known as Madge-mobiles. You need to watch an old episode of the UK TV comedy show "Benidorm" to find out why!


Or Council Go-cart


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

therese1 said:


> I also was discussing Benidorm until someone veered right and made non topic observations. which I responded to.
> I'm new so not sure what is allowed etc.
> Feels a bit like wandering into the daily mail comments section.
> Beep beep isobella reversing her soap box as she doesn't take kindly to anyone who disagrees with her.
> ...


We often veer off topic and I'm one of the chief offenders
We also enjoy robust political discussion but prefer our assertions to be backed by fact.
Imo what you term the Cameron/ Lawson 'crass dismissal of migrants' - Láwson was in fact discussing future UK membership of the EU not migrants - was seized on by naive people and blown up into a massive smokescreen which obscured the real issues of that day, namely the ruling about the ridiculous Bedroom Tax and the disgraceful google tax arrangements. Since you find the word 'bunch' to be crass, perhaps you could enlighten us as to the pc approved term for a large congregation of migrants.
As long as the British - or come to that Spanish - Left continues to concern itself with trivia and grandiose but empty posturing it will continue to be marginal and irrelevant.


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## EdofWigan (Jun 28, 2015)

I am glued to it. I watch it on player, accompanied by a lightly buttered croissant and a cup of freshly ground Java. 

I like to alternatively watch the documentary with the comedy. 

In fact, I think it is time for a little 'Blow n Go'


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## Justina (Jan 25, 2013)

*Buggies*



raynard said:


> Or Council Go-cart


Friends were in llandudno in July and said that there were buggies zipping around all over the place. The way to go?


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## jimenato (Nov 21, 2009)

Same in Weston Super Mare, it must be a seaside thing. :confused2:


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## therese1 (Jan 28, 2016)

mrypg9 said:


> We often veer off topic and I'm one of the chief offenders
> We also enjoy robust political discussion but prefer our assertions to be backed by fact.
> Imo what you term the Cameron/ Lawson 'crass dismissal of migrants' - Láwson was in fact discussing future UK membership of the EU not migrants - was seized on by naive people and blown up into a massive smokescreen which obscured the real issues of that day, namely the ruling about the ridiculous Bedroom Tax and the disgraceful google tax arrangements. Since you find the word 'bunch' to be crass, perhaps you could enlighten us as to the pc approved term for a large congregation of migrants.
> As long as the British - or come to that Spanish - Left continues to concern itself with trivia and grandiose but empty posturing it will continue to be marginal and irrelevant.


Thanks for reply.
No problem at all with off topic, political discussion - the more robust the better.
I commented on some of the points you and she made to be met with the yawn, soapbox patter.
I may be a bit old for the left right malarkey but i don't believe Merkel will regret the million migrants they've taken in. She no doubt realises they cannot take them all and is correct to say that they've more than done their bit.
I don't know what Isobella's cryptic 'new' comment is about so will agree to differ. 
No offence intended by me. I don't insult folk and would appreciate reciprocity.


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## Isobella (Oct 16, 2014)

Justina said:


> Friends were in llandudno in July and said that there were buggies zipping around all over the place. The way to go?


Seems to have come from America, are there really a lot in Benidorm? An old man near me takes his dog a walk on his. When the dog is tired it rides on the oldie carrier. I think they are a bit dangerous, especially when some of the owners appear to have lost the plot....silent killers


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## EdofWigan (Jun 28, 2015)

The Germans have accepted so many for the future sake of their economy. It is on a demographic course for breakdown and they desperately need more young workers to pay in (taxes) to offset the cost of the retiring population costs. 

Merkel has played a really good game and hopes to draw down proportionate central Euro monies but teh underlying reason is one of demographics not purely compassion.

Why Germany needs migrants more than UK - BBC News


Great Britain, simply is not in the same position


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

therese1 said:


> Thanks for reply.
> No problem at all with off topic, political discussion - the more robust the better.
> I commented on some of the points you and she made to be met with the yawn, soapbox patter.
> I may be a bit old for the left right malarkey but i don't believe Merkel will regret the million migrants they've taken in. She no doubt realises they cannot take them all and is correct to say that they've more than done their bit.
> ...


Merkel has already 'regretted' her open welcome. She has stated in the last day or two that she expects the refugees to return to their home countries as soon as possible. Germany is also expected to return some 80000 migrants who do not qualify for refugee status.
Denmark and Sweden have also back- peddled on earlier open door policies and have closed borders with Germany as well as instituting border checks between Sweden and Denmark.
The Netherlands is also reviewing its stance as is Austria.
Over 50000 migrants have arrived in Europe this month alone.
However we may regret it, Europe simply cannot accommodate the many millions who are fleeing violence or simply wanting a better life.
It seems that over thirty migrants attempting to reach Greece from Turkey may have drowned this morning. The direct responsibility for those deaths lies with the callous people smugglers who cram these people into unsuitable crafts and leave them to steer as best they can. The Turkish police have arrested the gang responsible for the latest tragedy. Blaming the UK, the EU or any political body for bad policy is one thing, the activities of criminal gangs who take advantage of such situations and the willingness of people who can pay thousands of dollars is another.
The past colonial history of western nations is irrelevant to the current Middle Eastern situation. Bringing up the 2003 invasion of Iraq is also pointless. We all know it was a terrible mistake, crime even.
I could bring up the oppression of my Dorset peasant ancestors by the wicked gentry and squirearchy and whilst it might go down well at a Corbyn rally it wouldn't get me anywhere


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

EdofWigan said:


> The Germans have accepted so many for the future sake of their economy. It is on a demographic course for breakdown and they desperately need more young workers to pay in (taxes) to offset the cost of the retiring population costs.
> 
> Merkel has played a really good game and hopes to draw down proportionate central Euro monies but teh underlying reason is one of demographics not purely compassion.
> 
> ...


Germany needs to fill an estimated 600000 new job vacancies in the next ten years, hence theinitial 'welcome'. I pointed out on this Forum several weeks ago that her policy was one of national interest and not compassion.
However....having seriously underestimated the numbers that arrived and the problems regional and municipal authorities are encountering in coping with the arrivals, not to mention public disquiet, she has back- peddled.
Rather like the UK underestimating the number of Eastern Europeans who would take advantage of the 2004 opening of EU borders.


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## EdofWigan (Jun 28, 2015)

It, imho, is far more basic. Yes, Germany needs a younger workforce to pay the aging populations pensions but recent events has allowed the Far Right undercurrent to grab the attention of and make vocal the populous. This the political 'Angel' needs to be taken. 

The plight of these people will now be part of the political leverage machine. The age old game of scaring folk to justify increased taxation. 

The war between the French and Britain = Income Tax, as an example, i am sure folk here have many more...


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## outdoorlife (Jan 31, 2016)

I kind of agree with you however I could also suggest the same of Cancun with regards to the USA? It's not the 'real' Mexico...


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## Dionysus (Jan 4, 2016)

*Ha...*

I was reading a US WEB site that had a link to a UK site, and I saw http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/benidorm-legend-sticky-vicky-retire-7415755

I had a chuckle because I had never heard of her until I started this thread a while ago, and her name was mentioned.


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## Isobella (Oct 16, 2014)

In the DM too. I didn't know she was Spanish, born in Tenerife. There is a YouTube clip too. Don't look Pesky Wesky.

Benidorm favourite Sticky Vicky retires after 35 years of 'sexy magic show' | Daily Mail Online


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