# Renovation cost of living sticky??



## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

How about renovating the cost of living sticky (with apologies to Stravinsky)??

It's over a year old and as we know things have changed here in Spain and all 

over!! As we have people from all over Spain on the forum we should be able to 

compare prices in a wide range of areas, but if we try to look at too many things

it'll get too complicated and people won't have time to do it. I propose looking at 

a few basic items with brand names to make the comparison easier. For example 

1l Lauki ordinary milk

1 pkt Bonka ground coffee

1 pkt Fonteneda digestive biscuits

1 doz eggs

1 baguette

6 pack Mahou beer

What do you think? Too complicated??


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Pesky Wesky said:


> How about renovating the cost of living sticky (with apologies to Stravinsky)??
> 
> It's over a year old and as we know things have changed here in Spain and all
> 
> ...



funny that - I was thinking much the same myself

maybe we should include some supermarket 'own brands' too?

have we all got a mercadona?

maybe unit costs for gas, leccy & water too?


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

xabiachica said:


> funny that - I was thinking much the same myself
> 
> maybe we should include some supermarket 'own brands' too?
> 
> ...


I have a Mercadona nearish, but much prefer Alcampo. I think Mercadona is probably the best choice though as there seem to be loads south of Madrid. What about the north?
Definitely need info about other stuff too, tv's, computers, house prices, renting etc, but it gets a bit diff to handle all the info. 
Another thing. I think we should steer clear of offers, just give the real price. 
Is that the TIME!! gotta go!


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Pesky Wesky said:


> I have a Mercadona nearish, but much prefer Alcampo. I think Mercadona is probably the best choice though as there seem to be loads south of Madrid. What about the north?
> Definitely need info about other stuff too, tv's, computers, house prices, renting etc, but it gets a bit diff to handle all the info.
> Another thing. I think we should steer clear of offers, just give the real price.
> Is that the TIME!! gotta go!


we don't have Alcampo - or that brand of milk you mentioned


I think rental prces might be hard since they vary so much area to area

Strav only lives just over half an hour from me, but rentals are so much cheaper there


if it wasn't for my students we'd be more than tempted to move there


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## Chica (Mar 23, 2009)

Maybe we could combine this with UK prices too!? The only problem is the branding whereby Mahou and Bonka are bound to be more expensive. It could be done say with Tesco's own brand and mercadonnas or are people not really interested?!


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Chica said:


> Maybe we could combine this with UK prices too!? The only problem is the branding whereby Mahou and Bonka are bound to be more expensive. It could be done say with Tesco's own brand and mercadonnas or are people not really interested?!


I'd be interested in a comparison like that - with the caveat that I think Mercadona's own brand is vastly superior to the 'value' Tesco stuff iirc

do Tesco have a 'mid range' own brand - I seem to remember they used have an 'upmarket' one?


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## Chica (Mar 23, 2009)

xabiachica said:


> I'd be interested in a comparison like that - with the caveat that I think Mercadona's own brand is vastly superior to the 'value' Tesco stuff iirc
> 
> do Tesco have a 'mid range' own brand - I seem to remember they used have an 'upmarket' one?


Yes I think they do have a mid range product. Is there anyone based in the UK willing to do this for us?? I suppose it doesn't have to be Tesco's as long as it's a major supermarket chain like Mercadonna.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Chica said:


> Yes I think they do have a mid range product. Is there anyone based in the UK willing to do this for us?? I suppose it doesn't have to be Tesco's as long as it's a major supermarket chain like Mercadonna.


someone must be able to get onto their online thingy?!


I tried a while ago but they wanted phone numbers & things I couldn't lie about easily



not that I lie easily, you understand.....................


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## paul.I.O.W (Jul 13, 2009)

xabiachica said:


> someone must be able to get onto their online thingy?!
> 
> 
> I tried a while ago but they wanted phone numbers & things I couldn't lie about easily
> ...


I use tesco online all the time so i can do you a comparison on spanish prices to english,just let me know which items to compare.

kind regards 
paul iow[vanessa]


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

xabiachica said:


> we don't have Alcampo - or that brand of milk you mentioned
> 
> 
> I think rental prces might be hard since they vary so much area to area
> ...


The idea for rental prices was to compare how much they vary. If we looked at a two bedroomed flat for example I could say how much one was in the centre of Madrid near a metro station and one in the centre of Galapagar a town 30km out of Madrid that many people commute from.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Chica said:


> Maybe we could combine this with UK prices too!? The only problem is the branding whereby Mahou and Bonka are bound to be more expensive. It could be done say with Tesco's own brand and mercadonnas or are people not really interested?!


I'm not following you here Maggie. I mean using the same brands in Spain to make sure the comparison is only taking into account the area that you live in, not the product you buy. If we compare with a UK supermarket it'll have to be a similar product - ground coffee from Nestle or Kenko for example...

PS How's it going!!?? Are you "vaporising"?


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## Chica (Mar 23, 2009)

Pesky Wesky said:


> I'm not following you here Maggie. I mean using the same brands in Spain to make sure the comparison is only taking into account the area that you live in, not the product you buy. If we compare with a UK supermarket it'll have to be a similar product - ground coffee from Nestle or Kenko for example...
> 
> PS How's it going!!?? Are you "vaporising"?


Hi PW. yes I meant a simular product. Someone else mentiones Bonka and Mahou. 

I'm fine. On my second day now and feeling OK. Don';t think much about ciggies at the mo but I know the craving is going to get worse so I will just stick the vaporizer in me gob and suck hard on it...lol. :baby: Haven't heard from JK so I don't know how he's doing?


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## paul.I.O.W (Jul 13, 2009)

Cost at Tesco[iow]

Hovis sliced white loaf 800G £1.10 or 3 for £2.50
Tesco value loaf 800G 47p each

Eggs box of 10 £2.00

Named brand chedder 400g £4.41
Tesco chedder 250g £ 2.47

Nescafe gold blend 100gm £2.62
Tesco gold blend 100gm £1.39

Tesco milk 2litres £1.59

Tesco Digestive biscuites 500gm 52p
Named brand 500gm £1.47

Wine 75cl £3.99

Tesco/value bacon 500gm £1.79[adverage good bacon £2.80 FOR 500GM.

Beef roasting joint £6.00kg
Lamb joint £6.00kg[
Pork joint £5.98kg
Large Chicken £2.79kg[max price £8.37
ALL THESE MEAT PRICES ARE ADVERAGE QUALITY MEATS.

Hope this is helpful

paul iow[vanessa]


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## Chica (Mar 23, 2009)

paul.I.O.W said:


> Cost at Tesco[iow]
> 
> Hovis sliced white loaf 800G £1.10 or 3 for £2.50
> Tesco value loaf 800G 47p each
> ...


Thanks Vanessa! It'll be interesting to compare the prices!


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## richie rich (Aug 12, 2009)

hej Pesky,...If you could get that information up within the next month, I think you'd be entitled to a hand delivered bottle of Veuve Cliquot. The information your talking about is exactly the sort of thing I'm looking for. 
Cheers and hope all is well
Rich


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## JBODEN (Jul 10, 2009)

This is an interesting post. 
I think that some items such as rents & rates are too subjective to be included in a COLI (cost of living index) since one would have to take too many factors into account eg living area, number of rooms, pool (or not), village, town etc.
Maybe one could quote prices of goods 'per 100 gm' or '100 ml' - that would make for ease of comparison. 
Does everyone have access to Excel? If so then I could creat a spreadsheet with all the information. If not, then one can download a free open office version.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

richie rich said:


> hej Pesky,...If you could get that information up within the next month, I think you'd be entitled to a hand delivered bottle of Veuve Cliquot. The information your talking about is exactly the sort of thing I'm looking for.
> Cheers and hope all is well
> Rich


Haha.
I don't know what it is, but it sounds good!
I'd like to get this going (well somebody has already posted uk prices for some things) but I'm spending far too much time here! :ranger:I started an intensive course on Monday for two weeks and my other clients are starting up bit by bit after the holidays and I've got 5 doors to varnish, and my mother in law's here!!


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

JBODEN said:


> This is an interesting post.
> I think that some items such as rents & rates are too subjective to be included in a COLI (cost of living index) since one would have to take too many factors into account eg living area, number of rooms, pool (or not), village, town etc.
> Maybe one could quote prices of goods 'per 100 gm' or '100 ml' - that would make for ease of comparison.
> Does everyone have access to Excel? If so then I could creat a spreadsheet with all the information. If not, then one can download a free open office version.


I have access to excel, but just writing the words are an effort for me!! But it would be REALLY good if you or someone else could do it. I agree that to make this as comparable as poss we should quote per litre or whatever. Perhaps including property is a bit too ambitious. Is just that I know people want to know!
When I have time I'll go to Mercadona, probably before the weekend.
_*Posters from the North*_ we could do with your info too. Then you'll have the satisfaction of confirming that everything is cheaper up your way. (I have to say MIL had just gone to the hairdressers here cos it's cheaper than in Bilbao and so are veggies etc. However she lives in a "good" area in the city and we live in a normal area out of the city...)


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

paul.I.O.W said:


> Cost at Tesco[iow]
> 
> Nescafe gold blend 100gm £2.62
> Tesco gold blend 100gm £1.39
> ...


That's a good way of doing it!!


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Pesky Wesky said:


> That's a good way of doing it!!


mercadona today - euros obviously

fresh trimmed chicken breast from the butchery counter - 5.29 /kilo

olive oil/litre - 2.55

12 large eggs - 1.20

own brand digestives - 800g - 1.49

nectarines - loose 1.49/kilo (89c for 4)

lemons - loose 1.95/kilo (1.12 for 3)

non-stick rice (not Uncle Bens) 1kg bag - 1.05

semi-skimmed milk (not fresh milk) - pk 4 x 1 lt - 2.20

own brand 'special k' - 1.75

own brand 'coco pops' - 1.40


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## JBODEN (Jul 10, 2009)

Here's a COLI template. Unfortunately I can't upload an excel file so I'll create a KNOL and advise you its address. In the meantime have a look at the doc attachment. 

Please advise:
- additional categories
- new products
- list of Spanish regions which we would like to monitor [should the regions be split between town & rural?]
I suggest supplying information once a month (during the 1st week of the month).
All comments and suggestions will be gratefully recieved.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

JBODEN said:


> Here's a COLI template. Unfortunately I can't upload an excel file so I'll create a KNOL and advise you its address. In the meantime have a look at the doc attachment.
> 
> Please advise:
> - additional categories
> ...


Can't open it, but I think it's a problem from my end not yours cos we're having computer problems.
I think your ideas are ok, but as there's not too much interest it probably won't happen. Still we can try. As I said before, I think this is information that we're often asked about and that people not yet living in Spain need to know.


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## richie rich (Aug 12, 2009)

man, I really have to move to Spain, it's hard to imagine that food stuffs are so cheap down there. UP here, 200gms instant coffee sets me back 60DKK which is about 8 Euros, a standard beer ( 500mls) in a pub is 40DKK so that's about 6.50 E I think...the list goes on.
Can't wait to get down there ))


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## JBODEN (Jul 10, 2009)

richie rich said:


> man, I really have to move to Spain, it's hard to imagine that food stuffs are so cheap down there. UP here, 200gms instant coffee sets me back 60DKK which is about 8 Euros, a standard beer ( 500mls) in a pub is 40DKK so that's about 6.50 E I think...the list goes on.
> Can't wait to get down there ))


Richie Rich - richer!


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## Chica (Mar 23, 2009)

JBODEN. I downloaded your sheet sin problemas. My problem is that for the normal run of the mill things I buy in Aldi. I suppose that wouldn't matter tho' coz the foodstuffs they sell are OK except for cereals...yuk!


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## Suenneil (Feb 17, 2009)

:clap2::clap2::clap2: I just wanted to say thanks to you guys for this .... you are doing a great job and Im sure it will be really useful for a lot of people in the future.

I feel guilty for not contributing - but I never do the shopping given my work hours - thats down to my OH


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Suenneil said:


> :clap2::clap2::clap2: I just wanted to say thanks to you guys for this .... you are doing a great job and Im sure it will be really useful for a lot of people in the future.
> 
> I feel guilty for not contributing - but I never do the shopping given my work hours - thats down to my OH


maybe this should now be merged with the original sticky now?


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## JBODEN (Jul 10, 2009)

Suenneil said:


> :clap2::clap2::clap2: I just wanted to say thanks to you guys for this .... you are doing a great job and Im sure it will be really useful for a lot of people in the future.
> 
> I feel guilty for not contributing - but I never do the shopping given my work hours - thats down to my OH


Here's your chance to gain control over him. Make sure that you get the itemized till receipt (... why did you buy that ...????) and forward the info on to me.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

xabiachica said:


> maybe this should now be merged with the original sticky now?


Let's wait until the weekend when a few people might get inspired by the initiative us shoppers are showing!!


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Let's wait until the weekend when a few people might get inspired by the initiative us shoppers are showing!!


I feel another shopping trip coming on!


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## JBODEN (Jul 10, 2009)

xabiachica said:


> I feel another shopping trip coming on!


If you have the chance could you make note of prices of basic groceries, irrespective of whether you intend to buy them, or not?


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## Guest (Sep 4, 2009)

We will have a look next time we go shopping. Got a little tied up this week though as our friends have gone back to the UK for a wedding and we are running thier property business for them while they are away. Must have been mad to agree to this. Meeting and greeting people, smiling all the time, flight delays, cleaners not cleaning properly the lisy goes on!! Sorry rant over


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

JBODEN said:


> Here's a COLI template. Unfortunately I can't upload an excel file so I'll create a KNOL and advise you its address. In the meantime have a look at the doc attachment.
> 
> Please advise:
> - additional categories
> ...


I eventually went shopping on Monday. I went to Alcampo because, as I said 
before, I don't normally go to Mercadona. Only xabiachica had posted some things 
she had bought in Mercadona anyway.
Well, I found it impossible to fill in the list given by JBODEN (sorry). There was just too much stuff. After 2 mins of looking at the fruit I realised it was a waste of time. Fruit changes price every 5 mins and there were black grapes, white grapes, huge grapes and mini grapes. The prices ranged from 1,89 - 2,79 per kilo. The milk - fresh milk or pasturised, full fat or semi, slashed price for this week , supermarket own brand or well known Spanish household name?? In fresh milk alone the range in price was from 89cents to 1,39 per litre!!
It was madness :crazy: and I abandoned ship. I wanted Parmesan cheese, juice and ordinary coffee and none of that was on the list anyway!
So sorry, either we go back to about six named items (like 1 dozen supermarket brand eggs, 1 box Kellogs cornflakes, 1 x 6 pack Mahou beer etc) or any more ideas?:noidea:


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## JBODEN (Jul 10, 2009)

When I come over in October I'll create a price list (whether it is representative or not is another matter) and you can compare against prices in your area. My brother & sister-in-law live in Chichester so I can get 'provincial' UK prices from them. Finally I can get a few friends to supply me with prices in Poland (now isn't that exciting!!!).
PS. I'll add those missing items to my list - I have a feeling that it will become very long.





Pesky Wesky said:


> I eventually went shopping on Monday. I went to Alcampo because, as I said
> before, I don't normally go to Mercadona. Only xabiachica had posted some things
> she had bought in Mercadona anyway.
> Well, I found it impossible to fill in the list given by JBODEN (sorry). There was just too much stuff. After 2 mins of looking at the fruit I realised it was a waste of time. Fruit changes price every 5 mins and there were black grapes, white grapes, huge grapes and mini grapes. The prices ranged from 1,89 - 2,79 per kilo. The milk - fresh milk or pasturised, full fat or semi, slashed price for this week , supermarket own brand or well known Spanish household name?? In fresh milk alone the range in price was from 89cents to 1,39 per litre!!
> ...


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## richie rich (Aug 12, 2009)

I confess I was really suprised when I read PW's post,...Milk costing 89 cents to 1.39....those prices are comparable if not more expensive than what I pay in Denmark.
extras for you,...dozen free range eggs,..45 DKK
Milk,..pasturized, low fat etc, 8.99DKK
Beer...60DKK for 4 cans
2oo gram Nescafe 99DKK


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

JBODEN said:


> When I come over in October I'll create a price list (whether it is representative or not is another matter) and you can compare against prices in your area. My brother & sister-in-law live in Chichester so I can get 'provincial' UK prices from them. Finally I can get a few friends to supply me with prices in Poland (now isn't that exciting!!!).
> PS. I'll add those missing items to my list - I have a feeling that it will become very long.


You need to get out more J !!!! However, the comparisons will be interesting! That said, my OH spends most of his time in the UK and he says food costs in Spain now are not that different, according to him, the UK has gone down slightly and Spain has increased slightly?? But I guess it depends on what you buy and I'm sure all of our shopping baskets are very different!!

Jo xx


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

richie rich said:


> I confess I was really suprised when I read PW's post,...Milk costing 89 cents to 1.39....those prices are comparable if not more expensive than what I pay in Denmark.
> extras for you,...dozen free range eggs,..45 DKK
> Milk,..pasturized, low fat etc, 8.99DKK
> Beer...60DKK for 4 cans
> 2oo gram Nescafe 99DKK


Well, Spain aint cheap mate!
Those prices are for _*fresh *_milk *normal *milk here is pasturised I think it is, or long life, and prices for that went from 49 cents to 90 cents. But I'm not giving any more prices! Like I said it drove me crazy looking at all the prices. Imagine the cheese! Made from cows milk, goats milk, or ewes milk or - a mix!! Fresh, semi matured or mature!!! The list goes on:boom:


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## Xose (Dec 10, 2008)

richie rich said:


> I confess I was really suprised when I read PW's post,...Milk costing 89 cents to 1.39....those prices are comparable if not more expensive than what I pay in Denmark.
> extras for you,...dozen free range eggs,..45 DKK
> Milk,..pasturized, low fat etc, 8.99DKK
> Beer...60DKK for 4 cans
> 2oo gram Nescafe 99DKK


Not sure what's going down in Costa Plenty or in Vaya, Vaya, Aqui no hay playa (Madrid), but Eroski charges 47 - 49 Cents for a ltr of milk (Past, Semi and Full).
This is not for any of the brands with a big TV advertising budget or Football sponsoring deals. They are €1 + per ltr. We need to keep in mind that the Milk Marketting Board (also known as the monopoly that Brussels hasn't gotten to yet) doesn't exist in Spain - so BIG open market for all players to brand and pitch in.

Lots of Beer around at 27 Cents for a 33Cl tin. No bear to follow or sexy babe with geordie accent, but 4.5% larger that tastes just like you'd expect it to.

Eggs (you pays your money and takes your choice, but from around a €1 to €1.1 a dozen and up to ones that cook themselves and are removed gently from the hen with its own pool for about €3.5 a dozen.

200G No es cafe is around €4.65

Same variances on Bread - but fresh baggette (about 45Cm long by about 6 wide) for 38Cents.

Basically, the cheap option on certain items still remains - but I think the Tax Man may be looking at putting an end to that any day now.

Xose


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## richie rich (Aug 12, 2009)

well today is my shopping day, so I'll grab teh receipt and copy it out....Bare in mind I'm a batchelor so my shopping basket is not full of the goodies a family or couple would necessarily buy ( read into that that it's light on fruit, veggies etc. )
I'll copy out teh prices in DKK. I think exchange rate is currently 1Euro = 7DKK
I think it will be interresting to get a comparison


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Xose said:


> Not sure what's going down in Costa Plenty or in Vaya, Vaya, Aqui no hay playa (Madrid), but Eroski charges 47 - 49 Cents for a ltr of milk (Past, Semi and Full).
> Eggs (you pays your money and takes your choice, but from around a €1 to €1.1 a dozen and up to ones that cook themselves and are removed gently from the hen with its own pool for about €3.5 a dozen.
> Xose


Like the egg comments!

Hmmm. I'm going to do exhaustive research into the price of milk around here. Looks like Alcampo are robbing me blind. Don't forget the first prices I gave for milk are for *fresh *milk which is always more expensive.


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## Hombre (Sep 10, 2009)

If its OK me and the present Mrs Hombre will "represent " the north east. We do have a Mercadona but its outside of town and we use a local supermarket called "Bon Preu".
This may be a good choice as it does not cater for tourists, only locals.
Once we all agree on a "template" of goods to check on we can start submitting.


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## Suenneil (Feb 17, 2009)

Hombre said:


> If its OK me and
> 
> 
> > the present Mrs Hombre
> ...


 Is Mrs H on a warning or something ? do you have anyone else lined up!!

:ranger: Sue x


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## Hombre (Sep 10, 2009)

Suenneil said:


> Is Mrs H on a warning or something ? do you have anyone else lined up!!
> 
> :ranger: Sue x


Helps to keep em on their toes I find.....need to know their place.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Suenneil said:


> Is Mrs H on a warning or something ? do you have anyone else lined up!!
> 
> :ranger: Sue x


I noticed that too, but thought it might not be wise to comment!

Would love to have comments from Hombre (and even more so from Mrs. Hombre!)


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Hombre said:


> Helps to keep em on their toes I find.....need to know their place.


oh my!!! You do know that this forum has TWO FEMALE MODERATORS and we keep the men "on their toes"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:eyebrows::eyebrows:


Jo xxx


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## Guest (Sep 16, 2009)

jojo said:


> oh my!!! You do know that this forum has TWO FEMALE MODERATORS and we keep the men "on their toes"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:eyebrows::eyebrows:
> 
> 
> Jo xxx


Its the thigh high leather boots and the 
horse whip that keeps us all under control


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## Suenneil (Feb 17, 2009)

Hombre said:


> Helps to keep em on their toes I find.....need to know their place.


And we thought you were such a nice man and a welcome addition to the forum Mr H!


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Suenneil said:


> And we thought you were such a nice man and a welcome addition to the forum Mr H!


I think we've frightened him Sue!! 

Jo xx


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## Suenneil (Feb 17, 2009)

jojo said:


> I think we've frightened him Sue!!
> 
> Jo xx


Course we did ..... they bend to our will in the end


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## richie rich (Aug 12, 2009)

hmmm, grocery shopping,..not my favourite task, but if I don't do it no other ****** will.
Here's the list....
Organic fresh milk 1ltr 8.75
Lindt Chocolate 22.95 ( on special)
minced beef 500g 39.95 ( on special)
Nestle Fitness cereal 375g 27.95
5 pre cooked meat patties 12.00
packet bacon 8 rashers 10.00
fresh chicken breast 400 g 39.95
8 party sausages 15.00
Ribena blackcurrant 1 ltr 31.95
no name pasta 250 gram 5.00
geavlia instant coffee 250 gram 79.95
chicken tikka cooking sauce 23.95
Irish cheddar 200 gram 29.95
Instant mash potato mix, 15.00
satay cooking sauce 19.95
Danish fresh mushrooms 14.00
3 leeks 19.95
baby spinach ( prepacked) 15.95
Avocados 25.00 each

The prices are in DKK, and as posted prviously,..I think it's about 7.00 DKK to 1 euro.
Cheers
Rich.


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## Xose (Dec 10, 2008)

richie rich said:


> The prices are in DKK, and as posted prviously,..I think it's about 7.00 DKK to 1 euro.
> Cheers
> Rich.


Hi Rich,
Aunty Beeb says "Danish Kroner 8.36800 " - now, I know that we don't get the interbank, but 7.00's nearly 20% diff.... so which is it?!

Thanks,
Xose


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

over 13 euros / kilo for chicken in Denmark



I suppose for a direct comparison we'd need to know average wages though - I mean if you earn nearly 3 times as much as here................


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## JBODEN (Jul 10, 2009)

richie rich said:


> hmmm, grocery shopping,..not my favourite task, but if I don't do it no other ****** will.
> Here's the list....
> Organic fresh milk 1ltr 8.75
> Lindt Chocolate 22.95 ( on special)
> ...


Thank's for the input.


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## richie rich (Aug 12, 2009)

just checked on x-rates.com. 7.44 DK to 1 Euro as at 13.16 GMT


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## richie rich (Aug 12, 2009)

xabiachica said:


> over 13 euros / kilo for chicken in Denmark
> 
> 
> 
> I suppose for a direct comparison we'd need to know average wages though - I mean if you earn nearly 3 times as much as here................


good point, the average hourly rate in DK is between 140 and 150 DKK an hour. From that, you also have to take the average tax rate which is 42% plus you also hae to deduct union, church and social fees'----as rule of thumb, a Dane's salary after everything has been taken out is a little under half of their pre tax income.
So for someone earning 30,000 DKK a month before tax, their nett income would nomrally come in between 13500 and 14500 DKK.
I'm deliberately talking in approximations here as the Danish employment system is quite complex, combining both salary banding ( like you'd have in a government department) and individual employment agreements within the one emplyer/employee relationship.


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## Hombre (Sep 10, 2009)

richie rich said:


> good point, the average hourly rate in DK is between 140 and 150 DKK an hour. From that, you also have to take the average tax rate which is 42% plus you also hae to deduct union, church and social fees'----as rule of thumb, a Dane's salary after everything has been taken out is a little under half of their pre tax income.
> So for someone earning 30,000 DKK a month before tax, their nett income would nomrally come in between 13500 and 14500 DKK.
> I'm deliberately talking in approximations here as the Danish employment system is quite complex, combining both salary banding ( like you'd have in a government department) and individual employment agreements within the one emplyer/employee relationship.


Flippin eck !!
Its getting a bit heavy now in it ??
By the way...sorry for the 3 hour time delay but I instructed Mrs H to take me out to lunch to celebrate my birthday...and, after much whimpering and hand wringing, she duly complied.
She did me proud too...vino...tapas..a walk in the sunshine...by the eck..she knows how to treat a lad !!
So...do we have a "template" for goods to be surveyed or do we all just pile in willy nilly ?


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## Suenneil (Feb 17, 2009)

Hombre said:


> Flippin eck !!
> Its getting a bit heavy now in it ??
> By the way...sorry for the 3 hour time delay but I instructed Mrs H to take me out to lunch to celebrate my birthday...and, after much whimpering and hand wringing, she duly complied.
> She did me proud too...vino...tapas..a walk in the sunshine...by the eck..she knows how to treat a lad !!
> So...do we have a "template" for goods to be surveyed or do we all just pile in willy nilly ?


Im fast losing faith in your Mr H! I thought you were showing signs of being more of a equal ops type of guy ... instead you appear to be more in our lovely, but very strange, Mr Xtreme camp!


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## richie rich (Aug 12, 2009)

Me thinks Mr Hombre is actually quite the gentleman, but with a slight twist to the way he shows it.....I would even go so far as to guess that mrs hombre has even taught him to put the seat down )


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## Suenneil (Feb 17, 2009)

richie rich said:


> Me thinks Mr Hombre is actually quite the gentleman, but with a slight twist to the way he shows it.....I would even go so far as to guess that mrs hombre has even taught him to put the seat down )


 ... and me thinks if Mrs H popped on the forum she would give him a good thrashing!


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## Hombre (Sep 10, 2009)

richie rich said:


> Me thinks Mr Hombre is actually quite the gentleman, but with a slight twist to the way he shows it.....I would even go so far as to guess that mrs hombre has even taught him to put the seat down )


Quite the contrary...she has been taught to leave the seat up


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## Hombre (Sep 10, 2009)

By the way..how do you do the line after your message.....as in " I just love talking" ??


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Hombre said:


> By the way..how do you do the line after your message.....as in " I just love talking" ??


You have to go into "user cp" across the top panel and then "Edit signature", I think then you write what you wanna say, make sure its "switched on" and it should show up on all your posts ???


Jo xxx


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## Hombre (Sep 10, 2009)

Thanks Jo..x


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## Suenneil (Feb 17, 2009)

Hombre said:


> Thanks Jo..x


I can see you have managed it no problem ....


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## Hombre (Sep 10, 2009)

Suenneil said:


> I can see you have managed it no problem ....


Education is a wonderful thing....


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## JBODEN (Jul 10, 2009)

Hombre said:


> Flippin eck !!
> Its getting a bit heavy now in it ??
> By the way...sorry for the 3 hour time delay but I instructed Mrs H to take me out to lunch to celebrate my birthday...and, after much whimpering and hand wringing, she duly complied.
> She did me proud too...vino...tapas..a walk in the sunshine...by the eck..she knows how to treat a lad !!
> So...do we have a "template" for goods to be surveyed or do we all just pile in willy nilly ?


Pile them in willy-nilly. I'm creating a spreadsheet and will post it in Google KNOL 'cause I can't attach an excel file to this site.


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## Hombre (Sep 10, 2009)

JBODEN said:


> Pile them in willy-nilly. I'm creating a spreadsheet and will post it in Google KNOL 'cause I can't attach an excel file to this site.


OK...here goes
Purchased today
pack of 4 Activia Muesli....2.15
600 g sliced bread............0.99
265g Viejo cured cheese..3.70
345g Kellogs Special K......2.79
1 litre Virgin Olive Oil.........2.59
1 litre skimmed milk...........0.61
1 litre fresh orange juice (with bits)...0.95
500ml white wine vinegar...0.39
Mrs H tells me from behind the attic door that there is no money left....so, its bread and milk for the rest of the week.
As for me...I'll just have to make do at local restaurants. !!


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Hombre said:


> Mrs H tells me from behind the attic door that there is no money left....so, its bread and milk for the rest of the week.
> As for me...I'll just have to make do at local restaurants. !!


I'm beginning to wonder is Mrs. H actually exists. I mean, what woman could put up with this!!!!!!!


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## Suenneil (Feb 17, 2009)

Pesky Wesky said:


> I'm beginning to wonder is Mrs. H actually exists. I mean, what woman could put up with this!!!!!!!


They wouldnt! ,,, But I think Mr H is similar to my OH in terms of humour! those hubbies who speak about their wifes in this way are usually pussycats and totally in love with their better halves! I know mine is  

Harmless fun me thinks ...


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## Hombre (Sep 10, 2009)

Suenneil said:


> They wouldnt! ,,, But I think Mr H is similar to my OH in terms of humour! those hubbies who speak about their wifes in this way are usually pussycats and totally in love with their better halves! I know mine is
> 
> Harmless fun me thinks ...


........


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

richie rich said:


> good point, the average hourly rate in DK is between 140 and 150 DKK an hour. From that, you also have to take the average tax rate which is 42% plus you also hae to deduct union, church and social fees'----as rule of thumb, a Dane's salary after everything has been taken out is a little under half of their pre tax income.
> So for someone earning 30,000 DKK a month before tax, their nett income would nomrally come in between 13500 and 14500 DKK.
> I'm deliberately talking in approximations here as the Danish employment system is quite complex, combining both salary banding ( like you'd have in a government department) and individual employment agreements within the one emplyer/employee relationship.


using XE.com currency converter 1145DKK is around 19.50 euros gross

I'm not sure I know anyone who earns that much an hour!


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## Suenneil (Feb 17, 2009)

xabiachica said:


> using XE.com currency converter 1145DKK is around 19.50 euros gross
> 
> I'm not sure I know anyone who earns that much an hour!


Comes out around 2000k euros a month after tax etc by my calculations ... I agree the 20 euros per hour is way above the average here in Spain, but the taxes and deductions are much higher in Denmark so it brings the net salary down quite a bit.

2000k euros a month here in Spain is still a pretty good salary though. I think the average salary here is around 1100 / 1200 a month.

Sue :ranger:


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

richie rich said:


> good point, the average hourly rate in DK is between 140 and 150 DKK an hour. From that, you also have to take the average tax rate which is 42% plus you also hae to deduct union, church and social fees'----as rule of thumb, a Dane's salary after everything has been taken out is a little under half of their pre tax income.
> So for someone earning 30,000 DKK a month before tax, their nett income would nomrally come in between 13500 and 14500 DKK.
> I'm deliberately talking in approximations here as the Danish employment system is quite complex, combining both salary banding ( like you'd have in a government department) and individual employment agreements within the one emplyer/employee relationship.


What's that??


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

I hazard a guess, but:
*Union* - trade union subs deducted automatically?
*Church* - optional church tax for those who declare themselves to be a member of a particular denomination, such as the state Lutheran Church. Called _Kirchensteuer_ in Germany.
*Social* - social security deductions, like national insurance contributions?


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## JBODEN (Jul 10, 2009)

Hombre said:


> OK...here goes
> Purchased today
> pack of 4 Activia Muesli....2.15
> 600 g sliced bread............0.99
> ...


??? ... rest of the week ...??? There is only 2 days to go to the end of the week!.


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## Xose (Dec 10, 2008)

Suenneil said:


> Comes out around 2000k euros a month after tax etc by my calculations ... I agree the 20 euros per hour is way above the average here in Spain, but the taxes and deductions are much higher in Denmark so it brings the net salary down quite a bit.
> 
> 2000k euros a month here in Spain is still a pretty good salary though. I think the average salary here is around 1100 / 1200 a month.
> 
> Sue :ranger:


Hi Sue,
I guess it depends what sector one works in, but if we're talking averages:

The average salary in Spain is €21,408 (Oct 2008)
But, financial Sector is €40.012 and Hotels Sector is 15.164 euros.

Same report has the UK on €40,000 average (and we all know of a hell of a lot of folk on less than that and some on a lot more).

We all know how good averages are at representing reality, but given the countless reports about the poor "Mileuretes" and how on earth they're managing with this crisis, I don't think the average is as low as that, perhaps around the €15-1800 per month. - Though €11-1200 is probably right in certain parts of the country (Galicia, Canarias and Extremadura being 3 of them)

Xose


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## JBODEN (Jul 10, 2009)

Xose said:


> Hi Sue,
> I guess it depends what sector one works in, but if we're talking averages:
> 
> The average salary in Spain is €21,408 (Oct 2008)
> ...


" lies, damned lies and statistics"


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## Suenneil (Feb 17, 2009)

Xose said:


> Hi Sue,
> I guess it depends what sector one works in, but if we're talking averages:
> 
> The average salary in Spain is €21,408 (Oct 2008)
> ...


Reality ? mmmmmm I dont know what this is anymore  I know that on the costa del sol the "average" salaries (certainly for expats) is 1200 a month plus commissions in many sectors. But what we are seeing is that the few jobs that are advertised have done away completely with the basic and are advertised as commission only, there always used to be many comm only jobs even in the good times ... but now its seems to be all of them! My OH has had at least 6 interviews in the past couple of months where the posts were advertised as salaried or with a basic, but at interview he was told "the wrong advert had gone in" and it was comm only! I think many companies are taking advantage!

Anyway I suppose we are lucky because if the averages are correct at just over 21k, then Ive been earning above that for quite some time.

Sue


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## richie rich (Aug 12, 2009)

HI guys,...sorry for the late reply,...I just got all those posts in one go. Joppa is right in what he says about unions being trade unions etc....I just had a thought,....am happy to put up the details and deductions of one of my old payslips so you can see how our salaries from being quite good, are whittled down to often less than half our gross income. ( obviously I'll leave out certain elements like name of employer etc, but that's normal business practice.
A question for Sue though,......if the company your OH has gone for a job interview for and had the conditions of employment altered at the time of interview,....isn't there a case arguable on that? I'm thinking: false advertising, seeking to obtain advantage by deception, stress, possible depression....the list goes on. Or,....am I being too american in my thinking ???


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## Suenneil (Feb 17, 2009)

richie rich said:


> HI guys,...sorry for the late reply,...I just got all those posts in one go. Joppa is right in what he says about unions being trade unions etc....I just had a thought,....am happy to put up the details and deductions of one of my old payslips so you can see how our salaries from being quite good, are whittled down to often less than half our gross income. ( obviously I'll leave out certain elements like name of employer etc, but that's normal business practice.
> A question for Sue though,......if the company your OH has gone for a job interview for and had the conditions of employment altered at the time of interview,....isn't there a case arguable on that? I'm thinking: false advertising, seeking to obtain advantage by deception, stress, possible depression....the list goes on. Or,....am I being too american in my thinking ???


 Yes too Amercia Rich ... in the 5 years I have been here I have had to "let go" of a lot of my thoughts and feelings on business practices / ethics / morals / terms and conditions of employment etc .... it is a bit like the OK Corral sometimes, particularly with the "British" companies that set up and recruit.

Im lucky I think in that Ive managed to work for the vast majority of my time here for decent reputable companies ... but thats not the case for a lot of people (non Spanish)

I seriously wish I had the funds to start my own business, because I know I could wipe the floor with a lot of them out here in terms of structure / practices / service ...... oops Im not good at blowing my own trumpet ordinarily so now feel slightly embarassed for doing so .... but in this case I mean it! 

Sue :ranger:


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## richie rich (Aug 12, 2009)

I know what you mean Sue,.. and you're not blowing your own trumpet just by saying you have much better skills than many of those around you,...if it's fact, it's fact. 
After reading a stack of stuff that PW wrote about the language schools there, I'm sorely tempted to start my own as I know, like you, I'd blow them away...but, there's also that thing called 'understanding teh terrain' and that's what I don't ....yet


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

richie rich said:


> I know what you mean Sue,.. and you're not blowing your own trumpet just by saying you have much better skills than many of those around you,...if it's fact, it's fact.
> After reading a stack of stuff that PW wrote about the language schools there, I'm sorely tempted to start my own as I know, like you, I'd blow them away...but, there's also that thing called 'understanding teh terrain' and that's what I don't ....yet


I too know I could run a language school better than most around here - especially the one I used to work for!


but now is not the time to start a new business - and I'm getting enough private work at the moment

I nearly did, though, about a year ago - was looking at licences, premises & so on - then suddenly everything dried up around Christmas time - so glad I didn't commit to anything

things are improving a bit - but not enough that I'd be ready to commit financially to premises etc - even if I could afford it, which at the moment I can't


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## Suenneil (Feb 17, 2009)

xabiachica said:


> I too know I could run a language school better than most around here - especially the one I used to work for!
> 
> 
> but now is not the time to start a new business - and I'm getting enough private work at the moment
> ...


:eyebrows::eyebrows: ... maybe this is a sign! we could all go into business together and pool our skills! given our own opinions of how fab we all are we could create a monster in a very short period of time!  .... maybe Ill keep this in mind ........... Sue :ranger:


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Suenneil said:


> :eyebrows::eyebrows: ... maybe this is a sign! we could all go into business together and pool our skills! given our own opinions of how fab we all are we could create a monster in a very short period of time!  .... maybe Ill keep this in mind ........... Sue :ranger:


all we need is a sugar daddy


or an angel........


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

richie rich said:


> I know what you mean Sue,.. and you're not blowing your own trumpet just by saying you have much better skills than many of those around you,...if it's fact, it's fact.
> After reading a stack of stuff that PW wrote about the language schools there, I'm sorely tempted to start my own as I know, like you, I'd blow them away...but, there's also that thing called 'understanding teh terrain' and that's what I don't ....yet


Just FYI Richie, I personally would never set up a language school here - too many issues, too much stuff to deal with. One of the most difficult things is to find and keep *good *teachers. The most I would ever get into would be some type of association with fellow teachers which is more or less where I'm at now. Too much paperwork too...
That's what I think anyway


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## richie rich (Aug 12, 2009)

ahh Sue,...I think you're echoing all our thoughts,..but there are those two old sayings 'due diligence' and Caveat Emptor. 
However, I do know what you mean. Sooo tempting, but the timing is wrong at the moment.
Give it a couple of years and I think we could create one hell of a monster......it'd be nice to knock mr Vaughan off his perch. I'd love to have companies like Accenture and/or Pfizer on my client list ))))))))))))


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## Suenneil (Feb 17, 2009)

richie rich said:


> ahh Sue,...I think you're echoing all our thoughts,..but there are those two old sayings 'due diligence' and Caveat Emptor.
> However, I do know what you mean. Sooo tempting, but the timing is wrong at the moment.
> Give it a couple of years and I think we could create one hell of a monster......it'd be nice to knock mr Vaughan off his perch. I'd love to have companies like Accenture and/or Pfizer on my client list ))))))))))))


Well lets put a note in our diaries to come back to this in 12 months time!

Sue x


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Just FYI Richie, I personally would never set up a language school here - too many issues, too much stuff to deal with. One of the most difficult things is to find and keep *good *teachers. The most I would ever get into would be some type of association with fellow teachers which is more or less where I'm at now. Too much paperwork too...
> That's what I think anyway


That was what worried me most when I was looking into it

the one I reckon is the best around here does all the admin & most of the teaching herself - and for many years only taught Spanish to foreigners

I have noticed that they now do German too, so I imagine she has found a good German teacher - or possibly is letting a room to one on a 'share the income' idea

it works for hairdressers - a lot around here rent a 'chair' - go 50/50 on the income

with a group of good teachers that might work...............


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## richie rich (Aug 12, 2009)

HI PW,..now we come to what I used to do for a living  without being arrogant, I was a head hunter and quite a good one as well,....so without any bells or whistles, I now how to sort the wheat from teh chaff and get good people on the pay roll. As for Keeping them, it's not too hard if you think just a little bit ahead. Salary is important, but so is teh work environment and letting them know that they're not just valued as employees but as people as well...it's no always an easy balancing act, but when you do it well, the benefits are enormous. ))))))))))))


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## richie rich (Aug 12, 2009)

One of the unfortunate things about running a successful business, is that the better the business is,...the more paperwork that gets generated, however, it's part of the machine.
I used to have to do the payroll for a temp agency,...man that was a ******,...different companies, different rates of pay, different overtime rates, bonuses, varying hours etc etc etc ......So I got my people to send in their timesheets on a friday ( if they weren't working on a weekend) and I'd simply trot in a couple of hours early on a monday morning and chew through them before the phones started ringing. Result,...zero mistakes in the temp's pay so they were happy campers and zero stress for me )))))


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

richie rich said:


> One of the unfortunate things about running a successful business, is that the better the business is,...the more paperwork that gets generated, however, it's part of the machine.
> I used to have to do the payroll for a temp agency,...man that was a ******,...different companies, different rates of pay, different overtime rates, bonuses, varying hours etc etc etc ......So I got my people to send in their timesheets on a friday ( if they weren't working on a weekend) and I'd simply trot in a couple of hours early on a monday morning and chew through them before the phones started ringing. Result,...zero mistakes in the temp's pay so they were happy campers and zero stress for me )))))


been there

I wasn't a temp controller so it wasn't actually my job - but it was all hands on deck

No timesheet by close of play Friday - (unless working weekend or late) - no pay next Thursday


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## richie rich (Aug 12, 2009)

Yep, I know what you mean,....I never enforced the 'not in by friday' rule. If i didn't get a timesheet, I'd be on the phone and tell them to get their ass to a fax and send it in. If they didn't get a signature, I'd get them to go back to the employer and get one....it took me not even two months and by then, the temps knew that I'd back them 100% so they made sure that my job was as easy as possible too


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## Suenneil (Feb 17, 2009)

richie rich said:


> HI PW,..now we come to what I used to do for a living  without being arrogant, I was a head hunter and quite a good one as well,....so without any bells or whistles, I now how to sort the wheat from teh chaff and get good people on the pay roll. As for Keeping them, it's not too hard if you think just a little bit ahead. Salary is important, but so is teh work environment and letting them know that they're not just valued as employees but as people as well...it's no always an easy balancing act, but when you do it well, the benefits are enormous. ))))))))))))


A man after my own heart! Since being here I have been astounded at the short sightedness of some people running businesses, particularly in relation to staff and how they believe staff should be managed, motivated, and rewarded.

Any company is only as good as its staff - ALL their staff.

Im going now before I step up on my soapbox!

Sue


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## richie rich (Aug 12, 2009)

YOu're dead right Sue, many companies understand that it's necessary to motivate their staff to get the best performace out of them which is true,..but the best way to motivate people is to treat them as people,....make them feel valued and wanted as people, not just as an asset to the company. As asset is a thing, not a person. It's a big mistake that many companies make with the end result being increased staff turnover....but Sue, while I could bang on about this all day, we're getting off topic.


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## Suenneil (Feb 17, 2009)

richie rich said:


> YOu're dead right Sue, many companies understand that it's necessary to motivate their staff to get the best performace out of them which is true,..but the best way to motivate people is to treat them as people,....make them feel valued and wanted as people, not just as an asset to the company. As asset is a thing, not a person. It's a big mistake that many companies make with the end result being increased staff turnover....but Sue, while I could bang on about this all day, we're getting off topic.


I agree! :focus: sorry! ... I was enjoying that. :focus::focus:


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## richie rich (Aug 12, 2009)

me too,...HR is a real passion of mine,...maybe we should start a new sticky re employment comments/ ideas or something )))))))))))))


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## Suenneil (Feb 17, 2009)

richie rich said:


> me too,...HR is a real passion of mine,...maybe we should start a new sticky re employment comments/ ideas or something )))))))))))))


In principal not a bad idea ... in practice probably is a bad idea! we start to post all our comments / ideas / experiences / best practices etc and before you know it someones created the "monster" that should have been ours! lol lane:


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

richie rich said:


> HI PW,..now we come to what I used to do for a living  without being arrogant, I was a head hunter and quite a good one as well,....so without any bells or whistles, I now how to sort the wheat from teh chaff and get good people on the pay roll. As for Keeping them, it's not too hard if you think just a little bit ahead. Salary is important, but so is teh work environment and letting them know that they're not just valued as employees but as people as well...it's no always an easy balancing act, but when you do it well, the benefits are enormous. ))))))))))))


I set up a cooperative with other teachers that is still going. I left for "living out of Madrid reasons" but prefer working for myself.
It's difficult keeping tefl teachers 
- cos they want to travel 
and 
- you send them into companies and they want the classes themselves
Anyway, we'll talk about this some other time


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