# Basic questions 1 EARNINGS



## tomtit (Jun 13, 2012)

I joined the forum for some advice on property etc but I'm already realising that there is much to learn!!
I read on another thread that proof of income would be required when moving to Spain. So. . . 

1. Is there a minimum income level that is set and if so what is it?

2. Who do you have to provide evidence to and in what format?.

3. If I buy spanish property without disclosing this, what would be the consequenses ?

4. As my income is mainly pension and therefore not likely to rise, how often will it be checked and again. . .by whom and how?

sorry about the asks and thanx in advance


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

tomtit said:


> I joined the forum for some advice on property etc but I'm already realising that there is much to learn!!
> I read on another thread that proof of income would be required when moving to Spain. So. . .
> 
> 1. Is there a minimum income level that is set and if so what is it?
> ...


the answer to all of those is that we don't know yet................

keep an eye on the link to UKinSpain on the sticky post about this

an income of +/-430€ a month per person has been mooted - & a friend who runs a legal firm here got resident certs in the past week or so for clients by showing bank statements & S1 forms


I don't really understand your #3.........


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## tomtit (Jun 13, 2012)

sorry. . . .question 3, suppose I have the funds to buy a house?. Then someone says 'show me your income' and it doesn't meet the required level. . .do I get booted out and the house confiscated or burnt at the stake or even worse


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

tomtit said:


> sorry. . . .question 3, suppose I have the funds to buy a house?. Then someone says 'show me your income' and it doesn't meet the required level. . .do I get booted out and the house confiscated or burnt at the stake or even worse


if you can afford to buy a house.............. then you can buy a house


you wouldn't have to be resident to do that anyway


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## tomtit (Jun 13, 2012)

PS. I already have a pension of £13k pa which will rise by a further £6k in 2 years. . .but will not rise much further. This would be for 2 people as my partner is not gauranteed to find an income and is not due to recieve a pension for a long time.
There is also a very real possibility that my son will ask me to do some pricing for his contracting business. . .which I do at present and which would probably generate a further £5k pa. 
I thought it easier to provide figures as I am unknown to anyone and it can be assessed more factually.
cheers again


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

tomtit said:


> PS. I already have a pension of £13k pa which will rise by a further £6k in 2 years. . .but will not rise much further. This would be for 2 people as my partner is not gauranteed to find an income and is not due to recieve a pension for a long time.
> There is also a very real possibility that my son will ask me to do some pricing for his contracting business. . .which I do at present and which would probably generate a further £5k pa.
> I thought it easier to provide figures as I am unknown to anyone and it can be assessed more factually.
> cheers again


well....... as I said, no one really knows yet exactly what is required

but if the expected 430 pp pm is about right then you should be OK


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## Solwriter (Jan 10, 2012)

tomtit said:


> PS. I already have a pension of £13k pa which will rise by a further £6k in 2 years. . .but will not rise much further. This would be for 2 people as my partner is not gauranteed to find an income and is not due to recieve a pension for a long time.
> There is also a very real possibility that my son will ask me to do some pricing for his contracting business. . .which I do at present and which would probably generate a further £5k pa.
> I thought it easier to provide figures as I am unknown to anyone and it can be assessed more factually.
> cheers again


As xabiachica said, no one knows for sure at the moment, but it does look like your present income would be considered enough to sustain you and your wife - as long as you get S1s sorted out to bring with you.

As to the probability that you will earn more money working for your son...
I would leave this until you know for sure you will be getting this.
By that time, you should be here and have had the time to sort out an accountant or gestor who can help you deal with the tax implications of this.

Do you get the UK state pension by the way?
If so, this opens up another area of debate as regards earnings.
It would be considered unusual for a pensioner to set up also as autonomo (and wouldn't be worth it for 5k per annum), and many accountants would advise against this in any case. So your son would have to pay you as an employee.
But (hopefully!) an accountant would work that out for you and him when the time comes.


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## tomtit (Jun 13, 2012)

cheers for the help, very kind. 
So I can buy a house and live there as long as I pay my way?
And I would only need to show proof of income if I wish to REGISTER for some spanish benefits? if not I won't need to prove anything but just be a model citizen 
SOLWRITER
At the mo I took early company pension so don't get the state pension for another 2 years.
Part of the idea of the small extra income could be the uk benefits. Ie if I set up a small company . . .in the UK. . .say 'dads pricing sevice ltd.co.uk' or whatever, I would be able to offset some of these earnings with say an anual flight back to the uk  and internet costs as part of my expenditure against income.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

tomtit said:


> cheers for the help, very kind.
> So I can buy a house and live there as long as I pay my way?
> And I would only need to show proof of income if I wish to REGISTER for some spanish benefits? if not I won't need to prove anything but just be a model citizen
> SOLWRITER
> ...


yes, basically - you can live here if you can pay your way

if you've been paying NI in the UK you will likely be able to access the Spanish health service by using an S1 from the UK - the UK then pays Spain for the service....... that is for up to 2 years so could well last you until you get your state pension

you do need to register as resident to get that though - & you should in any case after 90 days - it's required by the Spanish govt under EU rules

there aren't any Spanish benefits though............:confused2:


I actually think it might complicate matters if you set up a UK company like that ..... not sure what UK benefits you mean either


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## tomtit (Jun 13, 2012)

well . . .one benfit may be a company health insurance. . bupa or the like. They give good rates to employees and could cover me while I am abroad. I need to look into it. . . but again, best regards for your help


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

tomtit said:


> well . . .one benfit may be a company health insurance. . bupa or the like. They give good rates to employees and could cover me while I am abroad. I need to look into it. . . but again, best regards for your help


ahhhhh but with the S1 you wouldn't need it


you seem to be bypassing the fact that it isn't a choice............ if you want to live here you have to register as resident

if you're here more than 183 days a year you're automatically tax resident


chances are, also, that private health ins from a Spanish company in Spain, if you needed it, would be cheaper than anything you could get in the UK


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## Solwriter (Jan 10, 2012)

tomtit said:


> cheers for the help, very kind.
> So I can buy a house and live there as long as I pay my way?
> And I would only need to show proof of income if I wish to REGISTER for some spanish benefits? if not I won't need to prove anything but just be a model citizen
> SOLWRITER
> ...


You can buy a house here.
However....

You will *either* have to use it as a holiday home and be a non-resident (spending less than 183 days a year here and _up to_ 90 consecutive days at one time) and pay tax as a non-resident (this is usually worked out on the basis that the house in Spain would be your second home and you would be collecting rent from it).

*Or*, you can live here for more than 183 days per year, sign on at the Oficina de Extranjería as a resident of Spain and submit tax returns each year as a resident.

There is no legal middle way.

Under the first option, you remain a UK resident, paying tax and insurance in the UK, with full access to the _UK_ NHS, any benefits you may be entitled to and using an EHIC (plus perhaps private health insurance) for your visits to Spain. 

Under the second option, you pay tax in Spain on all your Worldwide income, use an S1 for state health care and get an EHIC (from the UK, as they will be issuing your S1) to cover you for visits to the UK.
This means that, even if you set up a company in the UK (which you are fully entitled to do), you are still liable to pay tax on profits in Spain and will need a good accountant to sort this out for you regarding what you can claim as expenses.


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## tomtit (Jun 13, 2012)

wow. . .I have seen the light .
If I come, I will have sold my UK home to finance it so I will be registering and paying tax in spain. I will only return home for a few weeks holiday. 
I gather that health insurance is optional if I decide and that my general health would be dealt with under an S1.
Basically speaking, is taxation on a par with the UK?


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## gus-lopez (Jan 4, 2010)

tomtit said:


> wow. . .I have seen the light .
> If I come, I will have sold my UK home to finance it so I will be registering and paying tax in spain. I will only return home for a few weeks holiday.
> I gather that health insurance is optional if I decide and that my general health would be dealt with under an S1.
> Basically speaking, is taxation on a par with the UK?


You'd probably be better off under the spanish tax system. 
As the others have pointed out you'll be covered by the S1 until you receive your state pension when you'll still be covered by virtue of being a pensioner. 

Personally I wouldn't advise buying straight away but rent until you are 100% sure you are where you really want to be. Normally I'd be the 1st to say money paid as rent is lost but in the current economic climate rents are on the floor & once you've bought you will have to wait years, unless you are really lucky, to sell it on if you don't like where you are.


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## chrisnation (Mar 2, 2009)

*Yes, put buying on pause.*



gus-lopez said:


> You'd probably be better off under the spanish tax system.
> As the others have pointed out you'll be covered by the S1 until you receive your state pension when you'll still be covered by virtue of being a pensioner.
> 
> Personally I wouldn't advise buying straight away but rent until you are 100% sure you are where you really want to be. Normally I'd be the 1st to say money paid as rent is lost but in the current economic climate rents are on the floor & once you've bought you will have to wait years, unless you are really lucky, to sell it on if you don't like where you are.


I'm teetering on the edge of heading for Spain, myself. My UK house is under offer [and proceeding v.e.r.y. s.l.ow.l.y.] With the turmoil in Spain's economic affairs now - and with the bailout actually seeming to have put yet more wind up the buyers of Spain's 10-year bonds - it looks certain to get worse. Nothing will induce me to buy a property until it is manifestly safe to do so. That may take _years_.


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## agua642 (May 24, 2009)

So if someone is permanent resident of Spain with Spanish tax declaration registered on Spanish S.S system they can get an EHIC medical card? From the uk? Not from Spain.

Sent from my iPhone using ExpatForum


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

agua642 said:


> So if someone is permanent resident of Spain with Spanish tax declaration registered on Spanish S.S system they can get an EHIC medical card? From the uk? Not from Spain.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using ExpatForum


from Spain if they pay SS here - from the UK if they are using an S1 from the UK to access the healthcare here


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