# EEA national's spouse successfully entered without FP - now what?



## onaka (May 1, 2013)

Hi all!

This is my first post on this forum, but I and my wife have already greatly benefited from reading the discussions here. Thanks especially to Jrge and Oleander77 for their wonderful advice!

This post has two purposes: 1) to share our experience of entering UK as an EEA national and non-EEA spouse without a Family Permit, and 2) to request advice on the next steps.

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First the report. The starting point was that I and my Japanese wife were living in Finland. I then accepted a job offer in the UK. There wasn't enough time to apply for a Family Permit for her, because the next available time at the mobile biometric clinic in Helsinki was beyond my job start date. So we decided to go for the "Code 1A" route described on this forum. We simply got on the plane with the following documentation at hand: i) my contract, ii) an extract from the Finnish population registry (official English translation) to prove our marriage, iii) a printed copy of the Border Force Operations Manual EEA Nationals (often quoted on this forum) and iv) a printed copy of the UKBA EEA family permits guidance.

Once arrived, my wife filled in a landing card, indicating that she intended to stay for a number of years (as a Japanese national she would normally be entitled to enter and remain for only six months without a visa). We approached the immigrations together and I simply said that I'm a Finnish national moving to UK to work and that this is my wife. The official checked her passport, noted the absence of a visa or Family Permit, and said that she "needs" one. I said that we didn't have time to apply for one and that we've understood that she could instead get a Code 1A stamp at the border. The official then excused himself and went away with the passport for about three minutes. When he got back, he said everything was ok and stamped the passport. He didn't ask for any documentation such as a marriage certificate at any point. But the stamp that she got is the same 6-month one as she would get when entering the UK as a tourist.

The whole business lasted perhaps five minutes and the official was very polite throughout. However, I wonder what would have happened if we hadn't asserted ourselves and specifically requested the Code 1A. Would he have insisted on a visa and sent her back? Or just eventually given her the Code 1A (i.e. tourist?) stamp? I'm guessing the latter actually. The fact that Japanese nationals can enter for 6 months without a visa perhaps made things easier for us than they are for those entering from visa countries.

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As for the next steps, I had it all planned out based on what I've read on this forum before: Apply for EEA1 for me and EEA2 for her, both at the same time. However, this border official advised us that she should now apply for a Family Permit within UK. This confuses me. I thought the FP was only needed for getting into the country for in the first place, and that after that its usefulness would be limited. I thought that from now on, the residence card (EEA2) would be the thing that is needed for seeking employment, smoothing subsequent entries, etc. But the official flatly contradicted this, saying that the FP is what gives her EEA rights, establishes the permission work and so on, and that the residence card is not necessarily sufficient documentation for re-entry.

My suspicion is that the official perhaps didn't quite know what he was talking about, and that we should stick with the original plan and go for EEA1 and EEA2 now. But I'd like to hear your opinions -- should she go for EEA2 or FP? To make matters slightly more complicated, she needs to travel abroad for a few days in about 1.5 months from now, so she'd need to have her passport back by then.

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Again, thanks for providing such a useful resource. I hope my report, too, is of some small use to someone. And if you have any advice on the next steps we should take, we'd be extremely grateful!


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## PinkOrange (Apr 20, 2013)

onaka said:


> Hi all!
> 
> This is my first post on this forum, but I and my wife have already greatly benefited from reading the discussions here. Thanks especially to Jrge and Oleander77 for their wonderful advice!
> 
> ...


You got lucky you had a japannies wife who doesn't need visa for 6 months. If she was to be from the high risk countries she wouldn't have been given entrance. 

Congradulations & welcome to Britain.


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## holborn (Jan 31, 2013)

PinkOrange said:


> You got lucky you had a japannies wife who doesn't need visa for 6 months. If she was to be from the high risk countries she wouldn't have been given entrance.
> 
> Congradulations & welcome to Britain.




i disagree,luck has nothing to do with what happen with the op case..
first of all they were lucky to even get to the plane,because with port cases u need to manage to board a plane and then u can seek admission, nevertheless,what happened here is that Japanese citizen don't need visa to travel to the uk,so it was easy to board the plane and seek the code 1A.

second,even visa nationals from high risk countries as u mentioned have the right to seek admission with their eu/eea citizen from any port(i.e calais),as long as they have both passports and can prove that they are married and prove by other means that they are covered by the free movement of citizens of the directive of the europeen union then they are fine and any couple who turns up at port has the right of admission,no matter of race,gender,nationality,it don't matter at all,what is more important is that the non-eea/eu citizen travels or join the sponsor(eea/eu citizen)and if needed i can supply links of success stories.

No visa but still want to travel? | freedom of movement in the EU and 
Directive 2004/38/EC | freedom of movement in the EU

and finally,after admission and in the OP case,they can apply straight away for EEA1 and EEA2 in the same time,follow the instructions in the UKBA website, basically u need just both passports,marriage certificate,passport pictures,the contract of work of the EEA national to prove exercising treaty rights and then u have just to wait the long queue.. if u are planing to travel in the next month or so,then it is less likely that u will get the passport back in time,what i suggest is that u submit the application after u come back because once u send an application it could take up to 6 month,check this link below.

Immigrationboards.com :: View topic - EEA2 Application Timelines - ONLY 1 TOPIC - UpToDate

forgot to mention,no need for the family permit,once u are in the uk,u are in the uk..the family permit is an entry clearance,basically its a visa to get to the uk,and needs to be applied from outside of the uk not inside,there is no authority in the uk to issue a visa for this purpose,unless u travel and apply from outside and frankly,it is remotely stupid to do so and i don't know why the IO even asked u to apply for one within the uk.!!!!
once u get to the uk with your spouse,u have the right to apply for the residence cards for both of u straight away if u wish,under eu laws,u are covered when u are exercising your treaty rights as a worker or self-employed or a student or self-sufficient person,and in your case as a worker..so don't worry,it looked like he did not know what he was talking about.

i hope this helps.


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## Jrge (Mar 22, 2011)

Hi,


onaka said:


> Hi all!
> 
> This is my first post on this forum, but I and my wife have already greatly benefited from reading the discussions here. Thanks especially to Jrge and Oleander77 for their wonderful advice!
> 
> This post has two purposes: 1) to share our experience of entering UK as an EEA national and non-EEA spouse without a Family Permit, and 2) to request advice on the next steps.


Welcome to the Forum!

If your spouse is traveling in the near future, I would advise to refrain on applying for the RC now, and to do so once she's back to the UK. As a rule of thumb, when returning please make sure she carries evidence of your marriage/relationship and that you are readily available on the phone, should IO have the need to talk to you.

Well done, Welcome to the UK!

Animo
(Cheers)


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## onaka (May 1, 2013)

holborn said:


> forgot to mention,no need for the family permit,once u are in the uk,u are in the uk..the family permit is an entry clearance,basically its a visa to get to the uk,and needs to be applied from outside of the uk not inside,there is no authority in the uk to issue a visa for this purpose,unless u travel and apply from outside and frankly,it is remotely stupid to do so and i don't know why the IO even asked u to apply for one within the uk.!!!!
> once u get to the uk with your spouse,u have the right to apply for the residence cards for both of u straight away if u wish,under eu laws,u are covered when u are exercising your treaty rights as a worker or self-employed or a student or self-sufficient person,and in your case as a worker..so don't worry,it looked like he did not know what he was talking about.
> 
> i hope this helps.


Thanks for the response! Very helpful, confirms what I thought.


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## onaka (May 1, 2013)

Jrge said:


> Hi,
> 
> Welcome to the Forum!
> 
> ...


Thanks!


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## onaka (May 1, 2013)

Jrge said:


> If your spouse is traveling in the near future, I would advise to refrain on applying for the RC now, and to do so once she's back to the UK.


Hmm now that we think about it, after her first trip we will both go on another trip in a couple of months, and then most likely again later in the autumn. So if we try to wait until a 6-month period during which she stays put in the UK, that might never come.

The EEA2 application form contains the following paragraph:



> We generally advise that you should not make any travel plans until we have returned your passport. However if you need your passport because you have to travel urgently and unexpectedly, call 0845 010 5200 and provide the personal and other details listed immediately above.


Searching the forum, I've found that spouse visa applications are aborted if you ask them to return the documents, but hopefully this is not the case for EEA1/EEA2?

Happy bank holiday eve


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Onaka? Strange username meaning stomach/belly!


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## Jrge (Mar 22, 2011)

Hi,


onaka said:


> Hmm now that we think about it, after her first trip we will both go on another trip in a couple of months, and then most likely again later in the autumn. So if we try to wait until a 6-month period during which she stays put in the UK, that might never come.
> 
> The EEA2 application form contains the following paragraph:........
> 
> ...


Asking for her passport will not affect the process unless you clearly withdraw the applications. However, I encourage you to have this sorted out as per European Regulations. Send your applications (EEA1/EEA2) and patiently wait. Those beautiful places y'all want to go to, are always going to be there.

Animo
(Cheers)


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

On the whole, insisting on your rights under EU law without complying with what the UK has put in place, i.e. EEA family permit, residence card etc, isn't recommended. It makes life a lot simpler if you just get the expected document and present it at the border. Asking for code 1A stamp (which looks very different from leave to enter as visitor for 6 months) means more work for the border officials, some of whom aren't familiar with it and have to consult their supervisors. The idea of family permit is to speed up the border process, by doing all the background work beforehand at overseas visa stations. By insisting on your derivative EU rights, you are bound to put their back up and may lead to less than pleasant experience at the border, let alone delay.


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## davidmckendrick (Mar 9, 2013)

So she entered UK as a Japanese tourist and has permission to stay for 6 months. She has no entitlement to work or use free NHS or apply for any Benefits. She would have had these Rights with an A1 stamp as the spouse of an EEA National. 
Send your applications (EEA1/EEA2) as soon as possible.


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## onaka (May 1, 2013)

Everyone, thanks for your responses. Here's a quick update. We submitted the EEA1/EEA2 by mail and she already received a certificate of application. Unfortunately the certificate was in her maiden name, not in her legal name, so now she's trying to sort that out with them over the phone. I suppose they inadvertently picked the maiden name from the passport (Japanese passport shows both).

Now the next issue is that I'm supposed to travel to Brussels next month (funny how everyone assumes we're travelling for pleasure - I wish that was so. I don't suppose there's any way I can do this without my passport(?), so now I'm wondering whether to wait for a while and see if the application is processed and documents returned in time, or if I should call the number in the application form right away and ask them to return my passport. Opinions? Also, I wonder if I can/should ask them to return all of our documents, not just my passport, since we only provided a single return envelope (our mistake).

Cheers!


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## onaka (May 1, 2013)

davidmckendrick said:


> So she entered UK as a Japanese tourist and has permission to stay for 6 months. She has no entitlement to work or use free NHS or apply for any Benefits. She would have had these Rights with an A1 stamp as the spouse of an EEA National.


Thanks for your view. Having read the relevant statute as well as the advice on the Border Agency's site, I've actually formed a different impression. Her legal rights here in the UK depend on her being the spouse of an EEA National exercising treaty rights, not on the possession any particular document.

Of course she has to be able to prove to any relevant institutions, such as the NHS, the fact that she's married to an EEA National exercising treaty rights. The residence card (EEA2) is provided as a handy way of doing that -- but there is no legal obligation to have one. Case in point, NHS recognized her status based on my contract and our marriage certificate.

Anyway, hoping to get the EEA1 & EEA2 soon to make things easier! Cheers.


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## davidmckendrick (Mar 9, 2013)

onaka said:


> Now the next issue is that I'm supposed to travel to Brussels next month (funny how everyone assumes we're travelling for pleasure - I wish that was so. I don't suppose there's any way I can do this without my passport(?)
> Cheers!


You can travel throughout EEA without a passport. You can legally travel with an ID card of some kind although you may have to argue a bit in airports. Do you have a photo ID card of some kind such as a Finnish ID card or a photo driving license? 

I know your wife was able to register with NHS with proof that she was the wife of an EEA Citizen. Has she tried to register for a UK National Insurance card to allow her to work in UK? 

Best wishes and good luck,
David


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Yes, if the OP has official Finnish identity card (issued by the police), he can use it to travel to Belgium and back. UK doesn't recognise other documents except passport for travel, and he will find difficulty re-entering UK or even to board the plane/train back to UK, even if he manages to enter Belgium.


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## onaka (May 1, 2013)

davidmckendrick said:


> You can travel throughout EEA without a passport. You can legally travel with an ID card of some kind although you may have to argue a bit in airports. Do you have a photo ID card of some kind such as a Finnish ID card or a photo driving license?


I don't have a photo ID card, but I do have a photo driving licence issued by the Finnish police. Technically this should not be accepted at the UK border as it only proves my identity (national ID number) but not my nationality (person of any nationality residing in Finland could get the same card). But I wonder if a) the UK border agents know/care about this and b) whether they could piece together my nationality from the photo driving license plus their records? Any experiences?



davidmckendrick said:


> I know your wife was able to register with NHS with proof that she was the wife of an EEA Citizen. Has she tried to register for a UK National Insurance card to allow her to work in UK?


She has not tried this yet, but I asked about it when I had my own NINo interview. I was told that the Job Centre will only accept EEA2 (residence card) as proof of her status, and will not consider a NINo application without seeing the EEA2. So EEA2 would be needed for getting a NINo, at least in our Job Centre.

Otoh, my understanding is that having a NINo is strictly speaking not a legal requirement for employment in the UK. I started my job before I got it. I don't know what would have happened if I had not eventually gotten one -- nothing good no doubt. The employer can obviously get into trouble if it turns out that you didn't have the right to work in the UK. So I think in cases where the right to work is not obvious (i.e. not an EEA passport), responsible empoyers would want to see NINo as proof of that right before they let you start working.


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## davidmckendrick (Mar 9, 2013)

If you have an EEA passport you should not have any difficulty getting a job first and NINo afterwards but without an EEA passport or a passport that clearly says that the holder can work in UK it is a different matter. I think the current fine is £9,000 per employee for employing someone who does not have a documented right to work in UK. (A Japanese tourist, for example).


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## onaka (May 1, 2013)

A little update again in case someone is interested. Contains both success and frustration.



onaka said:


> We submitted the EEA1/EEA2 by mail and she already received a certificate of application. Unfortunately the certificate was in her maiden name, not in her legal name, so now she's trying to sort that out with them over the phone. I suppose they inadvertently picked the maiden name from the passport (Japanese passport shows both).


So two weeks ago the actual EEA2 residence documentation arrived, yay! But it's in her maiden name!  This is despite her notifying them of that error right after receiving the COA both via phone and then as requested via email.

Now we're trying to figure out how to get it corrected. She called UKBA the same day the documentation arrived and got an email address ([email protected]omeoffice.gsi.gov.uk) where to request for a correction. Today, a reply finally came, but it simply says that they are the wrong place to ask ("This is the Biometric Residence Permit (BRP) error service. Your residence permit is in the form of a visa/vignette."), with no info on who to contact instead. Also she's no longer able to get hold of any real person on UKBA's phone service, seems they've changed it??

Any ideas??



onaka said:


> Now the next issue is that I'm supposed to travel to Brussels next month (funny how everyone assumes we're travelling for pleasure - I wish that was so.


Also in case someone is wondering how this turned out, I called the number provided in the EEA1 application instructions for requesting password returns. The number had an automated message saying that I should apply via email instead. I mailed the address provided on the UKBA website ([email protected]). I got an autoresponse saying that the documents are returned "usually within ten working days".

Unfortunately it took 19 working days and I missed my meeting by two days.

Overall not terribly excited about UKBA's performance at the moment.


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