# Is anyone else tired of this endless run for the border nonsense?



## surreal

Let me recount my trips....
I've been in a bus crash on the way back from the border. 
I've been turned away at the border. 
I've tried to keep up with constantly changing regulations. 30 days indefinitely, 30 days but only 3 times then exit, 15 days, but not too many, and goodbye passport pages. Full pages for a visa? Give me a break.
I've spent tons of cash. 
I've wasted so much time. 
I've curled up in the fetal position for countless of hours in bargain basement buses with no toilets while cockroaches danced in front of me obscurring my view out the window. All the while listening to all the fun the "short term" tourists have been having while they're getting drunk and making the bus driver stop at every 7/11 so they can buy more booze. 
I think in the past five years I've aged ten.
I am not looking forward to doing another visa run.


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## TomTao

surreal said:


> Let me recount my trips....
> I've been in a bus crash on the way back from the border.
> I've been turned away at the border.
> I've tried to keep up with constantly changing regulations. 30 days indefinitely, 30 days but only 3 times then exit, 15 days, but not too many, and goodbye passport pages. Full pages for a visa? Give me a break.
> I've spent tons of cash.
> I've wasted so much time.
> I've curled up in the fetal position for countless of hours in bargain basement buses with no toilets while cockroaches danced in front of me obscurring my view out the window. All the while listening to all the fun the "short term" tourists have been having while they're getting drunk and making the bus driver stop at every 7/11 so they can buy more booze.
> I think in the past five years I've aged ten.
> I am not looking forward to doing another visa run.


This is why I applied for and now have a twelve month visa, if you are married to a Thai you can go from a multi stay visa to a twelve month visa, cost is 1,900 Baht, a bit more paper work, but instead of reporting every three months you mail in an address confirmation slip, but an overstay on a multi visa is 500 Baht, if you are late posting in the slip it is 2000 Baht a day, you can either post your slip in or attend the mobile Immigration team if they go to your area.


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## wildfk

get a proper visa!


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## Dumbo

You have several other options of visa's without doing border runs


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## wildfk

If you are single you and wish to stay for a long period in Thailand - the main option is a non-immigrant "O" visa. It is available in many forms - the simplest being 90 days.
These are available outside Thailand and have some finical prerequisites - e.g. about 800k baht in a bank in your own country or Thailand.
You can get a 12 month non imm "O" with a multiple entry stamp - this enables you to come and go as you please for the duration of the visa with a maximum single stay of 90 days. Each time you return you will receive permission to stay another 90 days. So in theory you only need to do 3 or 4 border runs per year and the last one will give you some extra time over the year too.
THese are not available everywhere or even consistently - you need to get the latest info before setting off to get one and make sure you have all the docos........ most people get them in their home country of an honorary consulate, but Singapore is also a fairly reliable place to go. Penang is not.


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## nevilleanimusic

TomTao said:


> This is why I applied for and now have a twelve month visa, if you are married to a Thai you can go from a multi stay visa to a twelve month visa, cost is 1,900 Baht, a bit more paper work, but instead of reporting every three months you mail in an address confirmation slip, but an overstay on a multi visa is 500 Baht, if you are late posting in the slip it is 2000 Baht a day, you can either post your slip in or attend the mobile Immigration team if they go to your area.


Yes. completely bonkers. The Thai authorities don't seem to realise that with the neighbouring countries opening up they are dooming their own country. I fancy Cambodia soon, possibly next year.


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## Song_Si

While the system can be frustrating, it's the only option if one chooses to stay here.
Other countries may well be easier - eg Cambodia, and Malaysia if you have the $; by the same token, trying to move to work or retire to eg USA, UK, Australia, NZ and so on would either be far more difficult, or impossible. 
I don't think there is any sense of 'dooming their own country' - yet to see any statistic that shows the expat community keep the country economically sound.


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## TomTao

Song_Si said:


> While the system can be frustrating, it's the only option if one chooses to stay here.
> Other countries may well be easier - eg Cambodia, and Malaysia if you have the $; by the same token, trying to move to work or retire to eg USA, UK, Australia, NZ and so on would either be far more difficult, or impossible.
> I don't think there is any sense of 'dooming their own country' - yet to see any statistic that shows the expat community keep the country economically sound.


Agreed, it can be frustrating here, but it is relatively easy to get a long stay visa, we tried to get my wife's cousin a visitors visa to enter Australia a couple of years ago, she was refused entry based on 'economic flight risk' because she did not earn enough or have enough saved, I went guarentee for her, Australian Immgration still refused entry even with a guarentor. It may be inconvenient here, and frustrating at times, but all up, it is easy to obtain a visa.


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## wildfk

I think making comparisons in this case isn't very helpful....especially as anyone refused a visa is always a bit indignant at having lost face.

However a lot of people try to get visas for their girlfriends who were prostitutes - unfortunately immigration officials in many countries find this to be unacceptable and although they may not say it directly, they find an excuse not to issue a visa. In Oz this is ridiculous as prostitution is legal is most states and they are always looking for new girls - in fact declaring oneself to be a sexworker might prove to be be a good way for a girl (or boy?) to get into Thailand as he/she will be guaranteed a job

At the end of the day though the main criteria for any immigration such as Oz UK is that the person will LEAVE within the allotted time....or try to work "economic flight" etc.

The truth is that most "guarantors", "boyfriends" etc bring this problem upon themselves as they fail to be convincing enough to the officials.

Many are pretty inarticulate themselves and I've watched in horror as they talk themselves - or rather their g/fs - out of a visa........

As for the against - well they are almost to a man charlatans.


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## Dumbo

Also remember that it is our decision to come here so accept the laws and regulations of the country.


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## wildfk

Dumbo said:


> Also remember that it is our decision to come here so accept the laws and regulations of the country.


THat's actually a pretty facile argument. There are many reasons why we are here - some are working some are married and have families some are just supporting girlfriends or retired....often our decisions are at least partially made for us by external events and circumstances.
furthermore if we see something that is illogical, unfair or badly run it is perfectly normal behaviour to criticise and at least say what we feel is wrong rather than blandly accept and cow-tow to circumstances just because we aren't a citizen of the country (or rather subject in the case of Thailand)


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## Dumbo

There are things here I don't agree with. I came here with an open mind and darned if I am going waste time being critical of everything. I was not being critical of the OP. He asked what he could do and has been advised. And goodluck to him. I love it here. All members are free to express there thoughts and opinions. I don't co-tow to anyone. But for goodness sake enjoy it here and be happy.


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## johnbirchthai

To avoid arduous visa runs one can also just make one's residence at the border i.e. Nong Khai or Mukdahan for Laos.


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## johnbirchthai

nevilleanimusic said:


> Yes. completely bonkers. The Thai authorities don't seem to realise...


I disagree ... The Thai authorities realize _everything_.


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## twinbuddha

*Amazing Thailand!*

Of course the constant frustrations most of us feel with the whole business of getting and keeping a visa here may ultimately drive some to quit Thailand altogether. But, I believe all the "hoops" are intentional. They tell us, indirectly, "We do not need you or depend on you, but if you want to stay and be a good guest, prove it!"

I always ask myself how on earth did Thailand ever keep itself from being taken over by the Western powers during their heyday. Well, one way is to be friendly to all visitors and let them know: You are welcomed guests; however, do not ever think that this is your country, and do not show us a rude, frustrated, arrogant attitude, because if you do, we will keep making it harder or even impossible for you to stay here."

You might ask me, "How dare you compare expats to conquering armies!" Well, I lived in Costa Rica for ten years and know just how giving unbridled entrance to anyone with the money can do great damage to a country, not the least of which is ruining a country's self-image and their whole way of life. Costa Rica has, as does Mexico, very liberal and generous visa policies, especially their pension visa program. I think Thailand took a look at what such liberal and easy immigration policies can truly doom a country.

Also, you historians in the group, How did the United States get Texas and Hawaii?

And haven't all of us met foreigners here who we would never want living in our house?

Yes, boys and girls,it's all a test! Can you pass it?


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## Chiang Mai

get a visa - retirement with multi-entry


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## jb44

wildfk said:


> THat's actually a pretty facile argument. There are many reasons why we are here - some are working some are married and have families some are just supporting girlfriends or retired....often our decisions are at least partially made for us by external events and circumstances.
> furthermore if we see something that is illogical, unfair or badly run it is perfectly normal behaviour to criticise and at least say what we feel is wrong rather than blandly accept and cow-tow to circumstances just because we aren't a citizen of the country (or rather subject in the case of Thailand)


+This is good comment.
Not just border runs ,but the whole process of visa applications,a blizzard of paperwork now needed,and if one sits for hours in a immigration centre witnessing the corruption that is all too apparent. Visa run company representatives with countless passports welcomed with open arms, paperwork that is evidently fraudulent presented to corrupt officials with different amounts of tea money attached to each application,Amazing Thailand.

Thailand,I believe is now in terminal decline,the countless manufacturing companies flooded out will not continue operations in Thailand,and that is, or was the lifeblood of Thailand No matter what sentiments Toyota, Honda or the other companies state ,shareholder are after profits,the dangers are far too obvious for more damaging flooding on a more than frequent occurrence,taxes will increase,not that they were already high enough on a majority products .

The only reason I see from the many farang friends I have is that the majority of whom wish to stay here at the present is the situation in many of the the countries they are eying to as an alternative to Thailand is that they are in far bigger mess,but that can easily change,but not Thailand's I fear


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## Chiang Mai

jb44 said:


> +This is good comment.
> Not just border runs ,but the whole process of visa applications,a blizzard of paperwork now needed,and if one sits for hours in a immigration centre witnessing the corruption that is all too apparent. Visa run company representatives with countless passports welcomed with open arms, paperwork that is evidently fraudulent presented to corrupt officials with different amounts of tea money attached to each application,Amazing Thailand.
> 
> Thailand,I believe is now in terminal decline,the countless manufacturing companies flooded out will not continue operations in Thailand,and that is, or was the lifeblood of Thailand No matter what sentiments Toyota, Honda or the other companies state ,shareholder are after profits,the dangers are far too obvious for more damaging flooding on a more than frequent occurrence,taxes will increase,not that they were already high enough on a majority products .
> 
> The only reason I see from the many farang friends I have is that the majority of whom wish to stay here at the present is the situation in many of the the countries they are eying to as an alternative to Thailand is that they are in far bigger mess,but that can easily change,but not Thailand's I fear


There is no credible alternative to Thailand at the moment - not that i can see - I love the Philippines and go every year but the infrastructure is very poor compared to here


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## brianmarinus

I think that the way to get better options about this and several other things-like own the land you build on, is the way I know the Sweedish expats(second home owners) have done.
They contactet and get in tuch whit the Sweedish-and the Thai-chamber of comerce,and have come so fare that the Thai/Sweedish chamber listen to what they say-and have made a report-very large about thise problems and some of the Sweedish expats are invited to join the club(as they call it until another name must come up)-
So next year they are in this club whit the two chambers and there fore have the opportunity to made a different view at thise things and maby change something.
My vision is,that us from denmark-and hopefully people from many countries will do the same-contact the c-hamber of comerce in their home country and by this way get in tuch whit the thai chamber-and that we all can go together and put some pressure on the thai chamber,and through them,the goverment.
That must be the way,as if we dont do enything-nothing will ever change.
I remember when I first told some danish and Uk. expats about this-in the very beginning-they thought I was crazy and told me,that we never ever wood get eny influence-now they dont make fun out of it(or me) enymore,as they can se how fare the Sweedish have made it.


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## grega711

*Annual Visas available in Thailand*

If you're over 50 and can deposit 800,000 Baht into a Thai bank for 90 days, you can get a 1 year retirement visa, renewable once a year. And you have to report in person or by post every 90 days. My experience on that is that if you're polite to the Immigration people, they won't ding you if you're a couple of days late, but they can if they want to, and the fines can be expensive. 

As another poster said, if you're married to a Thai person, you can also apply for a one year visa, even if you're not over 50. Not sure of the requirements there but I think you only need 400,000 Baht deposited in the bank. The Immigration people discouraged me from applying for this one, even though I'm married to a Thai woman. It's extra paperwork for you and them, so they prefer the retirement visa. 

I usually follow their suggestions and they, in turn, have been cooperative and helpful every time we go there for almost 9 years now. My wife and I come with all documents in hand and the annual renewal usually takes about 2 hours from start to finish. 

There are also student visas. Many Thai schools will obtain them for you and the schools cost about 30,000 Baht/year. You're supposed to be studying Thai or teaching XX as a second language, but enforcement is spotty and in the past it has turned out to be basically another way to get an annual visa before you reach age 50.

And investment visas, I think, if you set up a Thai corporation and invest either 1,000,000 or 3,000,000 Baht in it -- in a Thai bank, that is. The corporation also comes with a work permit. I'm not sure about the details on this one, but one of my friends is single, under 50, and has one, so they do exist. 

Talk to a couple of lawyers, maybe someone friendly at Immigration (if you can find a helpful person), and read this forum and maybe ThaiVisa. There are several ways to get a proper visa and get out of the visa run rat race. Other countries are apparently easier, but if you want to be in Thailand, you can get it done. 

I got my first visa in Singapore (90 days) and went from there. Got it changed into a retirement visa when I renewed it at a Thai Immigration office. I was already here and didn't understand that my entry stamp wasn't a visa. Thought I was going to have to go home and start all over again, but a quick trip to Singapore did the trick. 

If you don't have any visa at all and don't want to go home to get one, you'll have to check around and see which Immigration offices in countries nearby are issuing them. And/or who can exert a little influence to help you out. It changes constantly but can usually be done. 

BTW, most of the Immigration offices outside Bangkok are easier to deal with than the office in BKK, I've heard. I've had good luck in Chiang Mai and Phuket.

Good luck.


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## Song_Si

another visa trip . . . went to KL 22 Nov and a simple process
there at 9.30am to join the queue, issued a number - was 28th so should have been there earlier. Out by 10.05am.
Fee is 110 ringgit, approx 1100 baht/22 GBP/$35UD
Returned next day 2.30pm, 10min and back outside with passport/single-entry Tourist Visa

Made a small holiday of the trip as had bought cheap air tickets in an Air Asia sale early this year, flew Bangkok-KL, from the embassy went straight to bus station and 8.30pm we were in George Town Penang, from there to Batu Ferringhi for a few days, and flew back Penang-Bangkok. 

Am a fan of Air Asia sales, we got tickets to Phnom Penh for May next year at 30 baht each way (missed out on the 'free' ones, they were just airport taxes/fees), plus airport taxes but still a bargain. Easy to plan ahead in a 3mth cycle.


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## wildfk

All this is fine until someone in Penang decides they don't like your face............


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## wildfk

I do hope you aren't working innThailand????


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## Song_Si

wildfk said:


> All this is fine until someone in Penang decides they don't like your face............


visa was gained in KL; fully aware of restrictions from Penang have had one TV from there in the past, hence the arrival KL and Penang for holiday only and some tourist activities; last time there the funicular railway up Penang Hill was being upgraded, did it this time quite an engineering feat, according to their media it exceeds 50% gradient in two places, a mix of electric train/cablecar. On previous trip I'd gone to Batu Ferringhi and chose not to swim due to water conditions - that was in Feb and I thought maybe just the time of year, however Nov it was worse - seriously in shin-deep water I couldn't see my feet, can see now why people go there to jetski, parasail etc but not swim. 

Note: Penang is known for not issuing Tourist Visas if you have already had one or more extensions on previous TVs. KL - so far - does not have the same restictions.


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## Song_Si

wildfk said:


> I do hope you aren't working innThailand????


Nope . . . no chance of that. When eligible I'll switch to the Non Immigrant retirement option.
If I worked - as one of two English-speakers in a town of approx 5000 I suspect I'd be 'potted' within a day. Even tree felling on my partner's mother's property 200km north generated a friendly visit from a policeman. 
We go away for a few days and return to so many 'where have you been?' questions, my absence noted at swimming pool, fitness park, laundry, market . . . the hills have eyes!


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## TomTao

Song_Si said:


> Nope . . . no chance of that. When eligible I'll switch to the Non Immigrant retirement option.
> If I worked - as one of two English-speakers in a town of approx 5000 I suspect I'd be 'potted' within a day. Even tree felling on my partner's mother's property 200km north generated a friendly visit from a policeman.
> We go away for a few days and return to so many 'where have you been?' questions, my absence noted at swimming pool, fitness park, laundry, market . . . the hills have eyes!


I have another five years till I can go the retirement option, the Immigration officer at Ranong said it is much easier than the 12 month non-immigrant O visa I eventually got, I have a disability/veterans pension from Australia that pays the way so I have no need to work.


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## Song_Si

^ the nice lady at Aranyaprathet Immigration once helpfully suggested it would be easier for me if I were married - to her! Yes, may be easier, but for now I'll stick with the short-term visa options. We're only an hour from the nearest border crossing, one day intend to take a bus with my bike, and cycle back, a little challenge for 2012.


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## TomTao

Song_Si said:


> ^ the nice lady at Aranyaprathet Immigration once helpfully suggested it would be easier for me if I were married - to her! Yes, may be easier, but for now I'll stick with the short-term visa options. We're only an hour from the nearest border crossing, one day intend to take a bus with my bike, and cycle back, a little challenge for 2012.


I met and married my Thai wife in Australia, the problem I have now is one of the officers wants me to go into the office after I posted my 90 day registration in, they know how much I get and I have been told that the officer may want a little extra in the kitty, but there is no need for me to go in at all till the visa comes due for renewal next year.


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