# Returning to Scotland after 7 years in Ontario, Canada



## kingkenny (Jan 23, 2009)

Hi

Contemplating returning to Scotland after living in London, Ontario for 7 years.
After 7 years have decided that the pull of family & grand parents is to much.

When we left Glasgow we only looked at the bad things at home and the good things of Canada, now we are looking at the good things of Scotland that were always there.

Its been a very emotional time deciding whether to go back home or stay.
Our kids are young enough to re adjust.

I am just looking for reassurance that our decision is right and Scotland ( Glasgow & suburbs ) is the right choice for moving back.

Although our home and life in Canada has been good I have finally gave in to the fact that I miss my family, friends and the grandparents should see our kids while they are still alive.

Any thoughts or advice or even anybody who has returned home from living abroad.

Thank you


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## InspectorClusoe (Dec 18, 2010)

I think you are letting nostalgia cloud your judgement. In anycase it should be a democratic decision if you go back and you should think more about how settled the children are after all they had no choice in going to canada did they?


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## kingkenny (Jan 23, 2009)

InspectorClusoe said:


> I think you are letting nostalgia cloud your judgement. In anycase it should be a democratic decision if you go back and you should think more about how settled the children are after all they had no choice in going to canada did they?


Hi thank you for your response.
There are many factors involved in the decision.
My Children are 4 & 2, young enough to adjust if we move.
Canada has been good to us and I am not trying to now find fault in it after 7 years.

The main factor for us is, we have no support system.
Our parents are of retirement age and I think deserve to have a relationship with the grand kids, they were born in Canada.
We have been lucky and had many visits but these visits will become less as their income shrinks with retirement and perhaps health issues.

With less vacation time from work and cost of flying everyone back its likely we will see less of our parents.

It is a very difficult decision to make many pros & cons both sides.

the expat forum is good to voice opinions and concerns.

I do feel I could settle back in Scotland but I want to conclude we are doing the right move for the right reasons.


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## InspectorClusoe (Dec 18, 2010)

Well since no one else has responded , I am just giving my opinion and of course it's logical that people might want to return home. But I don't think your reasons, the reasons that you give justify your decision. Sounds like home sickness to me,(again nothing wrong with that, there are periods when people realise their lives have changed. My point is that at some point you have to live for your new family and not the old, I don't understand that you say you have no support system. What do you expect when you emmigrate thousands of miles? I'm not having a go I just think your reasons are not justifying your decision. If you say canada is nice that is about it but I feel we can't do any more and it would be nice to go back to scotland that makes perfect sense. But no supports structure? For scotland or glasgow I can't help never been there but I watched rab c nesbit a lot) Good luck,!


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## kingkenny (Jan 23, 2009)

InspectorClusoe said:


> Well since no one else has responded , I am just giving my opinion and of course it's logical that people might want to return home. But I don't think your reasons, the reasons that you give justify your decision. Sounds like home sickness to me,(again nothing wrong with that, there are periods when people realise their lives have changed. My point is that at some point you have to live for your new family and not the old, I don't understand that you say you have no support system. What do you expect when you emmigrate thousands of miles? I'm not having a go I just think your reasons are not justifying your decision. If you say canada is nice that is about it but I feel we can't do any more and it would be nice to go back to scotland that makes perfect sense. But no supports structure? For scotland or glasgow I can't help never been there but I watched rab c nesbit a lot) Good luck,!


Hi

by no support I mean of not having immediate family around to help in helping looking after the kids, if we had more family around us then we obviously would have more support maybe the option of my wife getting back into the workplace.

We have been discussing the pro's & cons all day and its evident that sometimes the pull of family is very strong and sometimes I think its not about living for the old family but the facts are my old family are still my present family and its hard to except that they won't see much of the kids.

But some points are valid, maybe expect for Rab C Nesbit but none the less funny.

I am aware of home sickness but this runs deeper and a lot of the things we talk about are logical, some older posts on the subject of expats returning home suggest that some people struggle to readjust or they are happy because they could not settle but I think family, work, circumstances are all valid reasons for looking back to our homeland.


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## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

One big issue in the decision to "return home" after living abroad is that you aren't really returning to the place you used to know. Things can change in seven years (or even in just a couple of years) and it might be better to approach this as a move to a new "foreign" country.

Besides the desire to see more of your parents, you need to consider your job opportunities, child care alternatives, school preferences, etc. etc. as if this were a brand new move. There is no "right" or "wrong" decision - whatever you decide to do, you then do what you have to do to adjust your circumstances to your decision.

If you decide to stay, maybe you don't make whole family trips back to Scotland, but have a couple of family members make the trip each year (possibly for a longer period of time) or make other adjustments, depending on your parents' needs. If you decide to go back, maybe you make plans to spend holidays in Canada, or look into the possibility of the kids attending university there (if they wish to do so).

Only you can decide what factors are important for you, and then you have to adapt your lifestyle to take care of what's most important. 
Cheers,
Bev


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## 90199 (Mar 21, 2010)

Many years ago I roamed the world, but eventually the good life ended. I returned to live in the U.K. Life was no longer the same and the U.K. had changed, my friends had started their own families, relatives had drifted away. I hated the life and longed for foreign shores.

Some 46 years later, I now live on the island of El Hierro, I am content here. I do not want to return to the U.K.

Had I had the opportunity to raise my children in Canada, I would have seized it without question, for I believe that you are in a far better environment than in the U.K. and that the future of your young ones will be better there with more opportunities.

Think long and hard.

Whatever you decide I wish you well,

Hepa


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## kingkenny (Jan 23, 2009)

*Still thinking ?*

Hi Thank you for all your comments thus far.

I have been reading expat blogs from various sites and the outlook is very negative in regards to returning home.

Given the fact I am off work after a hard year, its Christmas and arguably this is the worst time of year for feeling homesick.

My wife thankfully has tried to slow down the thought process and consider everything and the impact it could have on the kids future.

I have to admit the UK is not the standard of living we have here.

Perhaps a visit back would help but with the lack of vacation time its very hard.

only 10 days a year plus 9 stats is the norm for here.

Anyways we are still mulling over it and its very hard to decide 100 % one way or the other.


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## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

Sounds like a good plan to slow down the decision process. You may also want to look into some of the "technical solutions" - things like regular phone (or Skype) calls with your parents, maybe get a Skype number back in the UK so your parents and friends can call you without the long-distance fees.

It's not the same as visiting in person, but it's possible to make use of some of this whizz-bang technology to have somewhat closer contact (even if you wind up having to buy your folks a computer or netbook and make a trip over to show them how to use it). 
Cheers,
Bev


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## Punktlich2 (Apr 30, 2009)

kingkenny said:


> Hi thank you for your response.
> There are many factors involved in the decision.
> My Children are 4 & 2, young enough to adjust if we move.
> Canada has been good to us and I am not trying to now find fault in it after 7 years.
> ...


A small point now, but it might be important later: there is no totalisation agreement for Canada Pension Plan/National Insurance between the UK and Canada (there is a double-coverage agreement that prevents double charging). I understand there is no minimum number of years of coverage needed to collect a Canada pension but you should check. Also, if you have acquired property there may be capital gains taxation by Canada on "deemed sale" at expatriation, and further taxation by the UK at up to 28% when you sell, if in a different tax year, subject to certain protections under the tax treaty. Get specialist advice.

For the rest: it is usually best, if you can, to "try before you buy": to wait until after a trial period before cutting all ties and moving your stuff. I've seen people be sorry they made the move, but unable to afford undoing it.


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## dunstable diva (Feb 19, 2009)

Bevdeforges said:


> Sounds like a good plan to slow down the decision process. You may also want to look into some of the "technical solutions" - things like regular phone (or Skype) calls with your parents, maybe get a Skype number back in the UK so your parents and friends can call you without the long-distance fees.
> 
> It's not the same as visiting in person, but it's possible to make use of some of this whizz-bang technology to have somewhat closer contact (even if you wind up having to buy your folks a computer or netbook and make a trip over to show them how to use it).
> Cheers,
> Bev


I spent an hour and a half talking to my family on skype xmas morning. When i finally came off it i was sweating and my jaw ached from laughing so much. Then for the rest of the day i felt totally deflated. My 17 yr old spent the day at his gfs house and my 15 yr old moped about bored all day. on top of that my hubby was cooking as i had been working up till xmas and was working on box day and he decided to cook PORK STUFFED WITH CHICKEN LIVERS. Love him for effort but wished he hadnt bothered. It was truly disgusting. If after 7 years you still are thinking of going HOME then you should try it. Embrace the UK and all the goodness it has to offer. And stay away from all the negativity. I dont think Canada is as great as everyone thinks it is. Where I live it is rife with drugs and vagrants. Theres no soul or depth to the people (not all but many). Crammed with Tim hortons MCdonalds burger king and about another 100 different kinds of crappy fast food places. No great architecture. Oh I must stop I am starting to rant. Good luck with whatever you do


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## chocaddict (Jan 3, 2011)

*hope this is practical help*

Hi, 

I thought I would reply as I live in the area you are thinking of returning to and can give some practical advice. I cant help you with the big decision of whether you and your family are better here or in Canada but I can tell you what its like here since you left and this might help you decide if you can afford it here or if you can cope with the change to your lifestyle the move might make.
Houses: Prices have dropped roughly 10% in the last few years. If you are looking to live on the southside of glasgow you can get a family home in a nice neighbourhood for 150k - 180k this is cheaper if you move further out of the city, the west end of Glasgow as a general rule is more expensive and the east end and north are cheaper. Check out rightmove. co. uk
Cars: a new family car is probably going to cost 12-14k if you want get one second hand, check out autotrader. co. uk
mortgages / phones /utilties /tv:
mortgages are more expensive now, the less deposit you have the more you will pay. gas and electric are only getting more expensive, the free tv is ok, you can get sky TV or Virgin TV from 20-30 pounds per month but this can go up to 70 pounds per month if you want movies and sport and home phone and broadband. you can check out all these prices on moneysupermarket. co. uk
Clothes and food, the VAT has just gone up here to 20%, you can check out prices on asda.co. uk, sainsburys.co. uk, tesco.co. uk you can get clothes in all the supermarkets which are relatively good quality, lots of people shop at primark for clothes as they are really cheap and mostly only in fashion for a short time. you can check prices at next.co. uk, newlook.co. uk, for some ideas.
childcare: you can get free 15 hours from the govt for every child from the age of 3, some private nurseries will let you offset this, i.e you can put you kid into private nursery for 2/3 days per week if you need to and instead of sending your child to state nursery you can use the 'free hours' against the private childcare and reduce your costs, private nurserys charge 30-40 pounds per day depending on the age of your child. A lot of employers also have a child care voucher scheme where you can purchase vouchers before you pay tax,
holidays: I work for a local council and get 20 days annual leave and 12 days statutory holidays, the law is you must get 28 days but your employer can use statutories to make this up, I know people who do get 5-6 weeks hols plus all the public hols it just depends on your employer. you can check out jobs on jobsite,co. uk and s1jobs. com, there are not as many as there were 4 years ago and the salaries have come down as there are more people competing for the job. If you decide to make the move I would say try to get a job first.
I am sure you probabaly know most of this as you only left 7 years ago but i hope its food for thought.


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## jemmlove12 (Mar 20, 2012)

Hey,

I'm from Scotland, I'm still only young (21) and engaged, when I marry in 2014 me and my fiance are planning on starting our life together in Canada. I can completely understand the pull of family, the thought of leaving my mother breaks my heart but in the end I have to think of my life and my future childrens life. Saying that you want your children to have relationship with the grandparents is completely understandable but honestly they will probably no doubt hold a grudge when they are older and have spent most of their education in Scotland, which btw is awful. My parents had to move out to the suburbs miles out just to get a decent school for my siblings, I wasn't so lucky as I am a lot older and we did not have the money to move out of Glasgow then. 

My mam has said that when I go no doubt in a few years time her and my dad will follow. Have your parents never thought of retiring and spending rest of their lives in Cananda?


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## deebz (Mar 11, 2012)

Hey not sure if this will help much but here goes.

I recently just moved back to Scotland after living in Japan, best desicion I ever made. I love Scotland, found a job relatively easy and a house.

My fiance came over from Canada to visit me and fell in love with the place, we are now planning his move over here. While I like Canada and have a fair amount of time there and have loads of friends there I feel for me personally Scotland is the better option. 

I live near Dunfermline and have a good life. I may not make as much money as I did working in Japan but the living costs here are much cheaper. I have support from my family and friends and know that if something were to happen people would be there for me no matter what (instead of a tiring long plane ride away) 

Things are bad in most countries now economy wise but I didnt have much problem here finding a job and house. In my opinion from what I have lived and seen in Canada, living costs and housing are cheaper here as well. Why is milk so expensive in canada by the way??? I dont get it


Might not be of help but thats my experience, Scotland was a good move for me.


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## deebz (Mar 11, 2012)

jemmlove12 said:


> Hey,
> 
> I'm from Scotland, I'm still only young (21) and engaged, when I marry in 2014 me and my fiance are planning on starting our life together in Canada. I can completely understand the pull of family, the thought of leaving my mother breaks my heart but in the end I have to think of my life and my future childrens life. Saying that you want your children to have relationship with the grandparents is completely understandable but honestly they will probably no doubt hold a grudge when they are older and have spent most of their education in Scotland, which btw is awful. My parents had to move out to the suburbs miles out just to get a decent school for my siblings, I wasn't so lucky as I am a lot older and we did not have the money to move out of Glasgow then.
> 
> My mam has said that when I go no doubt in a few years time her and my dad will follow. Have your parents never thought of retiring and spending rest of their lives in Cananda?


I dont find the education bad here in the slightest, it is far better than other places and the kids here go to school for 20 days more than they do in Canada. My soon to be brother in Law is still at school in Canada and he is off all the time and the amount of "free" periods he gets is rediculous.


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## nyclon (Apr 3, 2011)

This thread is over a year old.


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## AnAmericanInScotland (Feb 8, 2012)

nyclon said:


> This thread is over a year old.


I know, I was thinking that as well. However, I've enjoyed the most recent posts and am glad this was bumped. I learned from the older posts-choosing to be an expat is not as simple as some folks would think and it was interesting to me to read this thread when it was first started. It gave me some points to think about before I decided to become an expat again. 

And I've wondered, what did the OP decide? I wish this had been updated by the OP, but then again maybe the silence speaks?


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## the returner (Mar 8, 2012)

*I hear you!*

I havent returned home but like you am seriously thinking about it. I left teh UK wow a long time ago and in that time I have spent 16 years in Australia. I also have family there and none here, and that is difficult. I want us all to enjoy each other my children to have grandparents ,my parents to have grand children and me to have my parents I do totally understand. 

I am thinking of doing a house exchange for a year or get a year transfer with my job. Just to see what it is like. Have you thought of that?


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## nyclon (Apr 3, 2011)

the returner said:


> I havent returned home but like you am seriously thinking about it. I left teh UK wow a long time ago and in that time I have spent 16 years in Australia. I also have family there and none here, and that is difficult. I want us all to enjoy each other my children to have grandparents ,my parents to have grand children and me to have my parents I do totally understand.
> 
> I am thinking of doing a house exchange for a year or get a year transfer with my job. Just to see what it is like. Have you thought of that?


The OP hasn't posted since he started this thread in December 2010, nearly 15 months ago. I imagine he has figured out what to do.


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## Juliet43 (Jun 19, 2014)

Punktlich2 said:


> A small point now, but it might be important later: there is no totalisation agreement for Canada Pension Plan/National Insurance between the UK and Canada (there is a double-coverage agreement that prevents double charging). I understand there is no minimum number of years of coverage needed to collect a Canada pension but you should check. Also, if you have acquired property there may be capital gains taxation by Canada on "deemed sale" at expatriation, and further taxation by the UK at up to 28% when you sell, if in a different tax year, subject to certain protections under the tax treaty. Get specialist advice.
> 
> For the rest: it is usually best, if you can, to "try before you buy": to wait until after a trial period before cutting all ties and moving your stuff. I've seen people be sorry they made the move, but unable to afford undoing it.


In reply to this post, actually there is a minimum number of years coverage required to collect CPP (Canada Pension Plan)...minimum is 35 years to collect full pension.


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## nyclon (Apr 3, 2011)

Juliet43 said:


> In reply to this post, actually there is a minimum number of years coverage required to collect CPP (Canada Pension Plan)...minimum is 35 years to collect full pension.


Please take the time to note the dates on posts. You responded to to a post that is over 3 years old and the poster hasn't logged on for over 3 years.


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