# British kids in schools in Spain



## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Some of you may want to comment on this
Overseas education: British kids experience education problems in Spain - Analysis - TES Connect

And whilst we're on the subject of education...
I've seen lots of factual stuff on other forums, but what I haven't seen is a wide spectrum of more subjective views on the types of education available here, comparisons to the UK, advatages and disadvantages etc. Just a lot of different peoples' views and experiences together in one thread. Any contributions to be made??


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## SteveHall (Oct 17, 2008)

Thanks for posting, very interesting. Thought-provoking, even


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Some of you may want to comment on this
> Overseas education: British kids experience education problems in Spain - Analysis - TES Connect
> 
> And whilst we're on the subject of education...
> I've seen lots of factual stuff on other forums, but what I haven't seen is a wide spectrum of more subjective views on the types of education available here, comparisons to the UK, advatages and disadvantages etc. Just a lot of different peoples' views and experiences together in one thread. Any contributions to be made??


OOPs, sorry, maybe this wasn't clear.
What i haven't seen is  lot of different peoples' views and experiences together in one thread, and that's what I would be interested to see.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Well this is my opinion of the Spanish education system based on my daughters 6 month trial at a state school.

The teachers were strict but friendly which I liked. The Spanish pupils were fine, the english pupils there were in the main not intergrating, were not academic, not interested in learning anything and were simply there cos the law states they have to go to school (altho it would be interesting to know what their attendance records were like!!). As a result the school tried to put on extra Spanish lessons and extra homework to help, but the english kids didnt bother and I suspect their parents could or wouldnt help them because of a variety of reasons!!. My daughter didnt really get on with the Spanish cos they didnt like the english kids and the english kids werent really her type! She did make friends with a Spànish bilingual girl who was sweet, but unfortunately hanging around with a "guiri" wasnt the done thing.

I would conclude that there alot of British families who move out here without giving their childrens schooling much thought and dont take it seriously. Its fine when they're tiny and can start without prejudice and open to learning, but as they get older they will fall into the "tribal" them and us. It may not be a violent war, but its an undercurrent. I dont blame the Spanish kids or the education system, I think its cos there are too many British in these schools and they herd together, its actually better if there are only one or two in a school, then they're more of a novelty and not a "pack". Whats really needed in my opinion are some State British schools, where they are taught the Spanish curriculum and gradually learn the spanish language.

Jo xxx


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## Suenneil (Feb 17, 2009)

jojo said:


> Well this is my opinion of the Spanish education system based on my daughters 6 month trial at a state school.
> 
> The teachers were strict but friendly which I liked. The Spanish pupils were fine, the english pupils there were in the main not intergrating, were not academic, not interested in learning anything and were simply there cos the law states they have to go to school (altho it would be interesting to know what their attendance records were like!!). As a result the school tried to put on extra Spanish lessons and extra homework to help, but the english kids didnt bother and I suspect their parents could or wouldnt help them because of a variety of reasons!!. My daughter didnt really get on with the Spanish cos they didnt like the english kids and the english kids werent really her type! She did make friends with a Spànish bilingual girl who was sweet, but unfortunately hanging around with a "guiri" wasnt the done thing.
> 
> ...


I have no first hand experience of this given that my kids finished their education in the UK ... But I would suggest that part of the problem with integration for the older kids is compounded by the fact that their parents dont speak or write Spanish either - so with the best will in the World on the part of the schools in giving additional homework and extra Spanish lessons - if the kids parents cant sit down and help them with it, or encourage them to work at it (given that they arent learning themselves!) theres little hope for the kids to crack on with it.

Sue x


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Suenneil said:


> I have no first hand experience of this given that my kids finished their education in the UK ... But I would suggest that part of the problem with integration for the older kids is compounded by the fact that their parents dont speak or write Spanish either - so with the best will in the World on the part of the schools in giving additional homework and extra Spanish lessons - if the kids parents cant sit down and help them with it, or encourage them to work at it (given that they arent learning themselves!) theres little hope for the kids to crack on with it.
> 
> Sue x


Yes!! I think parent interest is also an issue in some areas. I dont know, but I'm sure there are a lot of parents who come over here for the relaxing lifestyle who send their kids to school without a care or a thought of how they're getting on. In fact I'm sure for some its actually a nuisance to have to get up in the mornings to get their children there on time and possibly dont bother half the time!!

Jo xxxx


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## SteveHall (Oct 17, 2008)

jojo said:


> In fact I'm sure for some its actually a nuisance to have to get up in the mornings to get their children there on time and possibly dont bother half the time!!
> 
> Jo xxxx


Exactly! 52% truancy in the summer term at my local school ..... usually from the expat kids and specifically the nuisance ones so the teachers would "hacer el sueco" (turn a blind eye) to it. 

As I have noted many times, when a schools' inspector was assigned to Torrevieja he was quoted in Información "What crime have I committed to merit Torrevieja?"


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Some of you may want to comment on this
> Overseas education: British kids experience education problems in Spain - Analysis - TES Connect
> 
> And whilst we're on the subject of education...
> I've seen lots of factual stuff on other forums, but what I haven't seen is a wide spectrum of more subjective views on the types of education available here, comparisons to the UK, advatages and disadvantages etc. Just a lot of different peoples' views and experiences together in one thread. Any contributions to be made??


interesting report - backs up a lot of what I've been saying over the past few years


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Pesky Wesky said:


> OOPs, sorry, maybe this wasn't clear.
> What i haven't seen is  lot of different peoples' views and experiences together in one thread, and that's what I would be interested to see.


I will write a long reply later


right now I'm off to watch fama a bailar!! in spanish



I'm still waiting for a drool smiley


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## Tallulah (Feb 16, 2009)

xabiachica said:


> I will write a long reply later
> 
> 
> right now I'm off to watch fama a bailar!! in spanish
> ...


Was that you on the comments section, Xab?? So true, so true......


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Tallulah said:


> Was that you on the comments section, Xab?? So true, so true......


yes it was me

here's what I said for anyone who doesn't want to click the link again



> My children are in state education on the Costa Blanca, not Benidorm - but there are a lot of ex-pats here too. They were 4 & 7 when they started in Spanish School. They weren't put back their first year & have never been held back, either. The older one finishes in the top few every year & the younger one gets good grades too, even though dyslexic. In fact she receives one to one help with this.
> 
> My older child (13 now ) chose to move into the Valencian line when she started ESO because there would be less foreigners in the class.
> 
> ...


so that's what I think about state education

as for 'International'......................

My two were in private International school the first year we were here. I still can't decide whether or not it was a complete waste of money & a year! It did give them a bit of a psychological cushion the first year, but educationally it really was a waste of time & money.

That's not to say all International schools are like that, though from reading on various forums I suspect they are in the majority A lot of Brits here just don't realise that just because you pay for it, it isn't necessarily better. I'd say the school they were at provided a barely adequate 'english state' education.

Given the choice & an endless supply of money I would love my kids to go to a _truly _bilingual school - the only ones I know of are fee-paying & beyond our pocket.

For newly-arrived older kids I reckon you have no choice but International/British- it's just downright cruel to put teens into a school where they don't speak the language & have little chance of learning it quickly enough to graduate. You could be completely ruining a young life. Some kids manage - but they are a very small minority.

It is also true that as parents we need to be involved no matter where our kids go to school, and if they are in Spanish state school it means we need to learn the language too.


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## Tallulah (Feb 16, 2009)

SteveHall said:


> Exactly! 52% truancy in the summer term at my local school ..... usually from the expat kids and specifically the nuisance ones so the teachers would "hacer el sueco" (turn a blind eye) to it.
> 
> As I have noted many times, when a schools' inspector was assigned to Torrevieja he was quoted in Información "What crime have I committed to merit Torrevieja?"




Hi Steve, 

Yes, I remember you saying that before on another thread re the appalling education levels at certain schools in the South. Doesn't seem as if there's been any improvement, does there??

Hi PW - well, I'm afraid to say that it's not a surprise at all......but don't feel as if I have the right to comment too much on it as don't seem to have that problem where we are. By the way, any issues in Madrid/Barcelona - as there must be some larger pockets of expats in those areas (or maybe they're all in fancy private schools??!!).

xxx


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

jojo said:


> Well this is my opinion of the Spanish education system based on my daughters 6 month trial at a state school.
> 
> The teachers were strict but friendly which I liked. The Spanish pupils were fine, the english pupils there were in the main not intergrating, were not academic, not interested in learning anything and were simply there cos the law states they have to go to school (altho it would be interesting to know what their attendance records were like!!). As a result the school tried to put on extra Spanish lessons and extra homework to help, but the english kids didnt bother and I suspect their parents could or wouldnt help them because of a variety of reasons!!. My daughter didnt really get on with the Spanish cos they didnt like the english kids and the english kids werent really her type! She did make friends with a Spànish bilingual girl who was sweet, but unfortunately hanging around with a "guiri" wasnt the done thing.
> 
> ...


Thanks for kicking this off. 
I *was* surprised - at first at British children grouping together and failing at school. After I'd thought about it a bit it wasn't so much of a surprise. 
My daughter doesn't encounter these problems because she's Spanish and there aren't any English speakers at her school. There are plenty of South Americans (Colombians abd Ecuadorians mainly) and although they have the advantage of speaking the same language their school curriculum doesn't match the Spanish one well and they often end up repeating a year. There are also Morrocans, Bulgarians and others. I don't know if they tend to band together or not, I presume so because there's more of a language problem, (haven't heard of any "problems tho) but the south Americans in general mix in well (although in the past ,5 or more years ago, there were problems of gangs). 
I think Jo and others are right that the attitude of the parents has a huge influence. When I go to the library here there are always muslim children taking out books, none of them are with their parents, but I presume their parents encourage them to go(???)
In Madrid they're just starting to have the problems that the UK encountered years ago of having more immigrant children than Spanish children in some areas and I can't see that they have the resources and they certainly don't have the training to deal with it. Given the scenario the Spanish with enough money are sending their kids to concertados or privates as quick as possible and the public system is getting more and more marginalised.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Thanks for kicking this off.
> I *was* surprised - at first at British children grouping together and failing at school. After I'd thought about it a bit it wasn't so much of a surprise.
> My daughter doesn't encounter these problems because she's Spanish and there aren't any English speakers at her school. There are plenty of South Americans (Colombians abd Ecuadorians mainly) and although they have the advantage of speaking the same language their school curriculum doesn't match the Spanish one well and they often end up repeating a year. There are also Morrocans, Bulgarians and others. I don't know if they tend to band together or not, I presume so because there's more of a language problem, (haven't heard of any "problems tho) but the south Americans in general mix in well (although in the past ,5 or more years ago, there were problems of gangs).
> I think Jo and others are right that the attitude of the parents has a huge influence. When I go to the library here there are always muslim children taking out books, none of them are with their parents, but I presume their parents encourage them to go(???)
> In Madrid they're just starting to have the problems that the UK encountered years ago of having more immigrant children than Spanish children in some areas and I can't see that they have the resources and they certainly don't have the training to deal with it. Given the scenario the Spanish with enough money are sending their kids to concertados or privates as quick as possible and the public system is getting more and more marginalised.


Libraries..........

my two take books out from the local library - to read for pleasure - often the books haven't been taken out for more than a few years!

I asked the librarian & he said hardly anyone takes books out around here - of any nationality

often my 2 are the only kids with books out


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

xabiachica said:


> Libraries..........
> 
> my two take books out from the local library - to read for pleasure - often the books haven't been taken out for more than a few years!
> 
> ...


Oh no, not the case here. The library is packed in the evenings, and not just students studying. Mostly children getting books out. And the library's not very good either!


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## Tallulah (Feb 16, 2009)

(PW says : There are plenty of South Americans (Colombians abd Ecuadorians mainly) and although they have the advantage of speaking the same language their school curriculum doesn't match the Spanish one well and they often end up repeating a year.)

Yes, absolutely true here as well...my twins have just started first year of ESO and they have children who have often repeated throughout now in their class. Bearing in mind my twins are 11 - they have two boys now in their class of 15 & 14and a girl of 14. One from Uruguay, one from a "gitano" family and the other is just, well, a bit of a problem with bunking off school and causing general trouble. We are starting to hear of a few problems now with those older boys making "comments" to the younger girls in the class. You can imagine, I'm sure. Just their age I know, but I think the school has started to take it seriously and keep on top of things, by calling their parents, etc as apparently it's gotten a bit out of hand in the past.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Tallulah said:


> Hi Steve,
> 
> Yes, I remember you saying that before on another thread re the appalling education levels at certain schools in the South. Doesn't seem as if there's been any improvement, does there??
> 
> ...


Hey Tallulah,
But are you happy with the schooling your children are getting in state school primary? Do you think the children are taught in a different way to the way they would be in the UK?

I remember for example that I just couldn't get over the fact that the children were never given paints. I remembered from my childhood having painting afternoons every week! It was considered a fundamental part of the curriculum. Years later I trained as a middle school teacher and there were the paints again. Came to Spain and not a paint pot in sight!!:confused2:


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## Tallulah (Feb 16, 2009)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Hey Tallulah,
> But are you happy with the schooling your children are getting in state school primary? Do you think the children are taught in a different way to the way they would be in the UK?
> 
> I remember for example that I just couldn't get over the fact that the children were never given paints. I remembered from my childhood having painting afternoons every week! It was considered a fundamental part of the curriculum. Years later I trained as a middle school teacher and there were the paints again. Came to Spain and not a paint pot in sight!!:confused2:


Well, PW, I have to say that so far I'm very happy (and of course a very proud mummy as well!) in the education they're receiving. They've never repeated and have come in the top tier of results in the class as well - I guess just adding proof to what's been said about kids coming over at a younger age, with little or no expat presence. The materials list we have to buy is crazy. They're only just getting their "responsible" heads on and that we refuse to replace things every bloody week if they lose stuff because they're not looking after it properly! And don't get me (and probably Anles too!) started on Feijoo here in the Xunta. What they're doing now with Plastica in ESO is more technical drawing and actually exploring art properly - instead of just colouring in, or making up models. The maths is great - I would say it is a more advanced level here. Shame about the English in Primaria - but there seems to be a bit of an improvement here in ESO - even with their teacher now agreeing to give them more advanced material to work with. In Primaria they would often correct the teacher - which was rather embarrassing! I would say they are disciplined here very well - and there appears to be good communication between the teachers/parents. The Director is a very approachable and understanding man as well. 

xx


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Tallulah said:


> (PW says : There are plenty of South Americans (Colombians abd Ecuadorians mainly) and although they have the advantage of speaking the same language their school curriculum doesn't match the Spanish one well and they often end up repeating a year.)
> 
> Yes, absolutely true here as well...my twins have just started first year of ESO and they have children who have often repeated throughout now in their class. Bearing in mind my twins are 11 - they have two boys now in their class of 15 & 14and a girl of 14. One from Uruguay, one from a "gitano" family and the other is just, well, a bit of a problem with bunking off school and causing general trouble. We are starting to hear of a few problems now with those older boys making "comments" to the younger girls in the class. You can imagine, I'm sure. Just their age I know, but I think the school has started to take it seriously and keep on top of things, by calling their parents, etc as apparently it's gotten a bit out of hand in the past.


we get an attendance report through the post every couple of weeks, which we have to sign & return

it's not perfect - dd1 was marked 'absent without permission' from one class when the entire year was on a school trip!


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

and speaking of parental involvement..........


I'm off to hear dd2 read - in english tonight

spanish tomorrow


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## Tallulah (Feb 16, 2009)

xabiachica said:


> we get an attendance report through the post every couple of weeks, which we have to sign & return
> 
> it's not perfect - dd1 was marked 'absent without permission' from one class when the entire year was on a school trip!


:clap2:Ye-es.  Actually, that's pretty good with the attendance report thing - especially if it's directed at every pupil and not those who have a history with truancy... At the moment, I'm doing the school runs (several times a day I might add with the different finishing times of Primaria/ESO) so there's no excuse for them not turning up!! And there's a whopping big gate at the entrance to the school that's locked.....and they don't wanna make their mum angry, cos they wouldn't like me when I'm angry! 

xx


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

xabiachica said:


> It is also true that as parents we need to be involved no matter where our kids go to school, and if they are in Spanish state school it means we need to learn the language too.





> I think the school has started to take it seriously and keep on top of things, by calling their parents, etc as apparently it's gotten a bit out of hand in the past.


Tallulah

This is something I've learned about the state school system, but i think it's probably true the privates too. As a parent you have to be on top of everything, more than in the UK I think. The kids don't tell you everything either because they don't know it's important, because they can't be bothered, or they're scared of what their parents or teacher might say. As you get very little communication coming from the school, you have to make the first move. 
If a child isn't handing work in (not one piece of work, but several), they won't tell you until he's failed an exam. Well, they don't tell you then, you'd see it in the report. Happened to a friend of mine. 
You have to be on top of the teachers as much as the children. For example I didn't ask my daughter exactly where they were up to in Physics, just asked about what they were doing and did she understand etc. They were finishing the second term when a dad discovered they were only on unit 3 of a 12 unit book. Now, to me it doesn't matter if you do 10 or 12 units, but 6 out of 12 means something's gone wrong. It hadn't occured to me that I had to keep an eye on the teacher fulfilling the teaching time table.

Ask for an appointment to see the tutor every term.


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## Tallulah (Feb 16, 2009)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Tallulah
> 
> This is something I've learned about the state school system, but i think it's probably true the privates too. As a parent you have to be on top of everything, more than in the UK I think. The kids don't tell you everything either because they don't know it's important, because they can't be bothered, or they're scared of what their parents or teacher might say. As you get very little communication coming from the school, you have to make the first move.
> If a child isn't handing work in (not one piece of work, but several), they won't tell you until he's failed an exam. Well, they don't tell you then, you'd see it in the report. Happened to a friend of mine.
> ...



That's very good advice all round, PW. Yes, we do have regular meetings - in fact they encourage it in our school - every Tuesday one can meet the teacher to discuss work - and the children have regular "controles" during and when they've finished a "tema" within the text books, as well as examenes. I'm really on top of the kids here anyway - I was like that in the UK, and I'm still like it here...I don't really relax about things like their education or who they're hanging round with. Even though it's tempting with living in a rural community, I just thing it's an accident waiting to happen, or what it could lead to. I think at the moment because of the age of my three, it's a little easier to control...what worries me is when they move further up in to ESO and then the Instituto....I just hope we have that same level of communication.

xxx


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

I think part of the reason why I like my kids in the international school is that I know how it is run, I know what they're learning, I can help with their homework and I can speak the language and communicate my thoughts to the teachers and vice versa! I've often said that I dont care if my kids intergrate into the community, well what I mean is that I care much, much more about their education! One day they'll be grown and I want to know I've done the very best for them. It wont matter then if they intergrated. Quite frankly, from my daughters brief experience in state school, I dont think she would have intergrated anyway, cos the Brit kids there just didnt! 

Jo xx


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Tallulah
> 
> This is something I've learned about the state school system, but i think it's probably true the privates too. As a parent you have to be on top of everything, more than in the UK I think. The kids don't tell you everything either because they don't know it's important, because they can't be bothered, or they're scared of what their parents or teacher might say. As you get very little communication coming from the school, you have to make the first move.
> If a child isn't handing work in (not one piece of work, but several), they won't tell you until he's failed an exam. Well, they don't tell you then, you'd see it in the report. Happened to a friend of mine.
> ...


I'm replying to myself here. I was going to edit this, but halfway through got called to see el Hormiguero on the telly by my daughter and then it wouldn't let me edit any more. So this post was gonna be a bit better, but...

It's a bit like saying "I did my homework, but the dog ate it, honest teacher!"


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## Tallulah (Feb 16, 2009)

Pesky Wesky said:


> I'm replying to myself here. I was going to edit this, but halfway through got called to see el Hormiguero on the telly by my daughter and then it wouldn't let me edit any more. So this post was gonna be a bit better, but...
> 
> It's a bit like saying "I did my homework, but the dog ate it, honest teacher!"


I only like the song at the end - especially "que los padres quieren vivir". Off to bed kids!!:clap2:


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Tallulah said:


> I think at the moment because of the age of my three, it's a little easier to control...what worries me is when they move further up in to ESO and then the Instituto....I just hope we have that same level of communication.
> 
> xxx


You may do, but i doubt it. From what I've seen (which obviously isn't a great deal, my daughter's school and the experiences of 3 or 4 friends) the emphasis is very much shifted on to the pupil in the secondary school, so parents aren't contacted. You have to contact them. I've always been made to feel very welcome when I've gone however.

PS earlier on you said something about the level of English in schools. I think the teaching level has gone up tremendously in the last 10 years say. However my daughter has only ever had *one* teacher who has taken an interest in her and had actually tried to help/ teach/ encourage her. With all other teachers she's seen as a nuisance, a threat or a wierdo


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## Tallulah (Feb 16, 2009)

Pesky Wesky said:


> You may do, but i doubt it. From what I've seen (which obviously isn't a great deal, my daughter's school and the experiences of 3 or 4 friends) the emphasis is very much shifted on to the pupil in the secondary school, so parents aren't contacted. You have to contact them. I've always been made to feel very welcome when I've gone however.
> 
> PS earlier on you said something about the level of English in schools. I think the teaching level has gone up tremendously in the last 10 years say. However my daughter has only ever had *one* teacher who has taken an interest in her and had actually tried to help/ teach/ encourage her. With all other teachers she's seen as a nuisance, a threat or a wierdo


Hmmm...well, yes, it's embarrassing really when your children end up correcting the teacher!!  Although this was in Primaria - and he was truly dreadful...I think he was "elected" to go on a course. Youngest came back and told us about his lessons - which left a LOT to be desired....we commented on it (really shouldn't do that in front of impressionable young minds!) and he went back to the teacher saying "my parents say your English is terrible".....oooh, couldn't look that man in the eye for about a year after that! It seems to be improving as they're going up the school - OK, not native teachers, but certainly teachers who seem to be bilingual and in fact go to the UK every year for experience/courses etc....makes a huge difference. The twins teacher was really sweet and brought them a little present back from London last time!


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## SteveHall (Oct 17, 2008)

Torrevieja - great library, very professional and attentive staff and almost ZERO expats. In evening a lot of teenagers studying in silence. Mainly latinos. Never managed to work out why.


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## jockm (Jun 23, 2009)

*My thoughts...*

Hi, Jockm here - hoping to go to Logrono mid next year with my husband and 14 (to be) year old daughter...

This topic is of great interest to me, as the one issue that makes me nervous about our move is the desire that my daughter will be able to successfully integrate into Spanish society, learn the language, make Spanish friends, and survive in the Spanish educational system. I have read virtually everything there is to read about schools in Logrono and an international school is not an option for us (they don't exist). Our choice is between the concertados and the IES'.

What makes all this so much easier for us is that my daughter will return to Australia to complete years 11 and 12 (last two years of school), so the risk of a failed education is significantly lessened. (Her dad will still be in Australia). My view is that the experience of having been in Spain will contribute invaluably to her "education" - but I have the insurance that all her future options won't be set on her time in Spain (2 years). I acknowledge I (she) has less to lose given she will finish her schooling in Oz.

Logrono is interesting - British students aren't an issue there (which for me is good, because I am sure my daughter would pal up with them in the first instance because of the language) - but there has been an incredible rise in the number of immigrant students there, with "ghettos" developing in some areas with 60% of the students e.g. morrocan, pakistani, or latin americans. It has been interesting to read that some of the concertados (funded by the public!!) have a relatively tiny immigrant population. One concertado had NO immigrant students! I am yet to work out how that could be!! For Logrono it appears to be early days - grappling with such a massive change in the make-up of the population - although I have read gov't papers addressing the issue and there is a conscious desire to create more of a balance across the schools. 

For me, I would not wish to live in a place where Spanish was not the dominant language in the playground - but then I want to be in Spain because I want to be in Spain - and experience its language, culture and people.

The article seems to imply that it is the case that some of these areas would happily cut out the Spanish element altogether (except the weather) if they could, and create a little Britain... I know it is not black and white, and that there is the full gamit of immigrant "types" in Spain. I do know I would be concerned in my own country if I felt that certain groups had no intention of becoming part of the community. I think too that concern exists in the UK towards immigrants...? What do you think?

Un abrazo,
Jockm


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

jockm said:


> Hi, Jockm here - hoping to go to Logrono mid next year with my husband and 14 (to be) year old daughter...
> 
> This topic is of great interest to me, as the one issue that makes me nervous about our move is the desire that my daughter will be able to successfully integrate into Spanish society, learn the language, make Spanish friends, and survive in the Spanish educational system. I have read virtually everything there is to read about schools in Logrono and an international school is not an option for us (they don't exist). Our choice is between the concertados and the IES'.
> 
> ...


hhhmm, Hi Jockm. 14 is a hellish age IMO!! Not just for education, but hormones, changes, attitudes (oh ATTITUDES!!)... I've got a 14 yo son and I have older daughters and 14 has been a "landmark" for all of mine so far (I love them all to bits and the older ones are wonderful now, BUT.......). I dont know how you're daugther will cope with the change of language, enviroment etc cos all 14 yos are different. again, in my opinion its not the best age to put her into a Spanish school and expect her to pick it all up easily, but who knows. The school will probably put her in a lower year which again amy cause problems socially, but the school will do that because of the language and education issues. However, it will give her a wider knowledge of the world and her place in it. So its not all bad. And as a 14yo, its her job to surprise you, so she could take to it luck a duck to water!!!!!!!

As for immigrants, I've found the worst by far in Spanish schools (certainly in my area) are the British. Other nationalities seem to be more humble and willing and eager to learn. But all schools, teachers and kids are different.

You must let us know how you get on

BTW, I hope I havent come across at too negative or anything, thats not my intention. I guess its having a 14yo with "attitude" myself at the mo


Jo xxx


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

*native teachers???*



Tallulah said:


> Hmmm...well, yes, it's embarrassing really when your children end up correcting the teacher!!  Although this was in Primaria - and he was truly dreadful...I think he was "elected" to go on a course. Youngest came back and told us about his lessons - which left a LOT to be desired....we commented on it (really shouldn't do that in front of impressionable young minds!) and he went back to the teacher saying "my parents say your English is terrible".....oooh, couldn't look that man in the eye for about a year after that! It seems to be improving as they're going up the school - OK, not native teachers, but certainly teachers who seem to be bilingual and in fact go to the UK every year for experience/courses etc....makes a huge difference. The twins teacher was really sweet and brought them a little present back from London last time!


I have to say I've always told my daughter not to correct the teacher, especially in front of the class, doesn't make for good teacher student relationships ... 
I've said before in other threads that IMPO I don't think you have to be a native teacher to be a good teacher. In fact being a Spanish teacher of English is a positive advantage in many cases because they should know exactly what the problems are for the Spanish learner. However what seems to make the difference is what you said Tallulah, being interested in what they are doing and being dynamic about it - courses, trips etc. That goes for any kind of teaching I think. The science teacher who goes to the science fair, the biology teacher who has a gerden and goes on walks, you know what I mean???


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

jockm said:


> Hi, Jockm here - hoping to go to Logrono mid next year with my husband and 14 (to be) year old daughter...
> 
> This topic is of great interest to me, as the one issue that makes me nervous about our move is the desire that my daughter will be able to successfully integrate into Spanish society, learn the language, make Spanish friends, and survive in the Spanish educational system.
> 
> ...


Well, your case certainly isn't a typical one, is it? Your nationality (at least where you're coming from) and your destination are not the norm on the forum. But I'm glad you've had the chance to read the posts here because I think they give a general view of what's happening in Spain. 

I just wanted to say smth about the concertados. As far as I understand, they operate in a similar way to private schools ie their intake is filtered, although I believe it shouldn't be. This has been well commented in the news in Madrid this year as Espe Aguirre (presidente de Madrid) wants to build more and more concertados and not state schools. One of the problems with this is that the concertados don't take immigrants. Perhaps somebody else knows more about this area??:confused2:


As far as your daughter integrating, from what I can make out, if your not in an area of high British immigration it's not so problamatic. If it comes to choosing between school A or B try to find out what help your daughter will have in each school because it may vary.

Would love to hear about your experiences in Logroño


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

jojo said:


> hhhmm, Hi Jockm. 14 is a hellish age IMO!! Not just for education, but hormones, changes, attitudes (oh ATTITUDES!!)... I've got a 14 yo son and I have older daughters and 14 has been a "landmark" for all of mine so far (I love them all to bits and the older ones are wonderful now, BUT.......). I dont know how you're daugther will cope with the change of language, enviroment etc cos all 14 yos are different. again, in my opinion its not the best age to put her into a Spanish school and expect her to pick it all up easily, but who knows. The school will probably put her in a lower year which again amy cause problems socially, but the school will do that because of the language and education issues. However, it will give her a wider knowledge of the world and her place in it. So its not all bad. And as a 14yo, its her job to surprise you, so she could take to it luck a duck to water!!!!!!!
> 
> As for immigrants, I've found the worst by far in Spanish schools (certainly in my area) are the British. Other nationalities seem to be more humble and willing and eager to learn. But all schools, teachers and kids are different.
> 
> ...


Jo, I love this post, it's great!!
Especially "and as a 14yo its her job to surprise you"
You are sooo right!
PS I don't think you've come across as negative, you've come across as somebody who's been there and has experience.:tongue1:


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## jockm (Jun 23, 2009)

*Ah the 14 year olds....*

Hi Jo
Not at all - I hear what you are saying. And I can tell you I am reading as much as I can and trying to ensure I have a realistic attitude to the situation. As far as 14 year olds go, does the expression "whatever" resonate with you?!! It's her punch line! Mind you, my daughter has a choice in whether she comes, and I am making sure she understands what might come with that - so it will be her call. At the same time, if she does come, I want it to be a success, and don't want her to be miserable! We have a few advantages, my husband is Argentinian, and I have a degree in spanish, so I will be dedicated to assisting her as much as I can. I also have plans of summer camp before she starts, getting a tutor, etc etc. I will invest all I can in assisting her in coping with the language and the experience more generally.

We also plan to do a reccie in January to talk to the schools and find out if some assistance can be provided in helping my daughter get up to speed - I'm sure after visiting the schools I will have a better feel for things.

I appreciate your open comments about the British - must be hard to make that observation about your kith n' kin!

And also, lovely to speak to you, I have been reading the forum for some time, but thought I should now get involved!

It's night time here, so I shall continue with my after-work wine,

Jock


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## jockm (Jun 23, 2009)

*Ooooh!*

Oooh, as I was typing that I read your reply Pesky Wesky! You're right, no negativity, and I am here because I want to hear people's thoughts. I certainly will keep you posted - and I also would love to know more about the concertado philosophy - I can't believe that a school funded publicly could find any justification for not having 1 immigrant student when they are 22% of a city's population!


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

"Whatever" is definately no. 1! Followed by, "In a minute", "do I have to", "why should I", "when I've finished this level" (you need to have a PS3/Xbox etc for that one!)...... 

And another favourite at the moment is "mingin".......... I've sussed it means somethings bad, but what a strange word????? Or am I showing my age??????

Jo xxx


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## jockm (Jun 23, 2009)

*Slightly off track...*

My daughter joined a group on Facebook called "I'll do it in a minute". I think there is a teen conspiracy. She has a penchant for talking in (what she thinks is) a sarf london accent, so "whatever" is "wo -eva"! I love mingin' - it's a great expression. No doubt you've done "care factor?" - I am convinced I did not speak to my mother in this fashion!!! We will know in December re: Logrono, so we are sweating it big time (see, I can do the lingo!) - but we are very keen, and very much looking forward to wineries!!!


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## jockm (Jun 23, 2009)

*One offs*

And I saw that there are 5 Australians in Logrono, according to the ayuntamiento, so we will be a curiosity!


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

jockm said:


> My daughter joined a group on Facebook called "I'll do it in a minute". I think there is a teen conspiracy. She has a penchant for talking in (what she thinks is) a sarf london accent, so "whatever" is "wo -eva"! I love mingin' - it's a great expression. No doubt you've done "care factor?" - I am convinced I did not speak to my mother in this fashion!!! We will know in December re: Logrono, so we are sweating it big time (see, I can do the lingo!) - but we are very keen, and very much looking forward to wineries!!!


CARE FACTOR!!! and "Do I look bovvered"?? I wouldnt have dared speak to my mother as mine do to me, but that said, mine arent really rude or disrespectful to me, they're just not as polite as I had to be when I was their age. Altho my mum and I did have our "moments", especially when I went thru my "punk" phase and came home with green hair (Wow, thats a memory that will stay with me!!!)... thats a mum and teenage daughter thing I guess.

Anyway, back to your daughter and your move, I think from what you've said and how you're trying to deal with it, its an experience that will help her to become confident and "worldly wise". The world is no longer a small place, its out there for the next generation to go and make the most of! So the more they see of it, the better as long as they have strong and caring parents looking out for them, encourage them and "try" to guide them!!

Jo xxx


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

jockm said:


> My daughter joined a group on Facebook called "I'll do it in a minute". I think there is a teen conspiracy. She has a penchant for talking in (what she thinks is) a sarf london accent, so "whatever" is "wo -eva"! I love mingin' - it's a great expression. No doubt you've done "care factor?" - I am convinced I did not speak to my mother in this fashion!!! We will know in December re: Logrono, so we are sweating it big time (see, I can do the lingo!) - but we are very keen, and very much looking forward to wineries!!!


don't forget 'why should I?, I didn't make the mess/use that plate/cup/glass!'

I'm hearing a lot of 'como', too

you know -'it's like, mine, like'

'es como, mio, como'

I had no idea they'd do it in spanish too!


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## lynn (Sep 25, 2008)

We have just moved over to the Costa del Sol with three children aged 16, 12 and 10. They are going to an International School and are absolutely loving it! We felt that it was unfair to plunge them into a Spanish school, and in fact at this International school, a high proportion of the kids there are actually Spanish. Therefore there seems to be no problem at all with integration at all. About a third are Spanish, a third are from the UK and a third from other parts of the world (and that is very wide!). My three all attended state schools in the UK before we moved over, and I have to say, I do feel that we are getting good value for money at this particular International School. I guess I'm saying that those that dismiss the International option on the grounds of 'integration' might be surprised!


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

lynn said:


> We have just moved over to the Costa del Sol with three children aged 16, 12 and 10. They are going to an International School and are absolutely loving it! We felt that it was unfair to plunge them into a Spanish school, and in fact at this International school, a high proportion of the kids there are actually Spanish. Therefore there seems to be no problem at all with integration at all. About a third are Spanish, a third are from the UK and a third from other parts of the world (and that is very wide!). My three all attended state schools in the UK before we moved over, and I have to say, I do feel that we are getting good value for money at this particular International School. I guess I'm saying that those that dismiss the International option on the grounds of 'integration' might be surprised!



I totally agree with you! I think once kids are over say 10 ish (depends on the child tho), its easier and better for their education to stick with a familiar format, curriculum and language. 

Jo xxx


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

lynn said:


> We have just moved over to the Costa del Sol with three children aged 16, 12 and 10. They are going to an International School and are absolutely loving it! We felt that it was unfair to plunge them into a Spanish school, and in fact at this International school, a high proportion of the kids there are actually Spanish. Therefore there seems to be no problem at all with integration at all. About a third are Spanish, a third are from the UK and a third from other parts of the world (and that is very wide!). My three all attended state schools in the UK before we moved over, and I have to say, I do feel that we are getting good value for money at this particular International School. I guess I'm saying that those that dismiss the International option on the grounds of 'integration' might be surprised!


Not surprised, pleased  . You're very happy and so is Jo. I'm glad you're not paying for something you don't agree with. 
It has been said, but I think on another thread, that in all systems - private, concertado and state - there are good and bad hwell: . What is true of ALL schools is that as far as you can they should be checked out in both your and your childrens' interest . 
In state schools it may be a little difficult, but if you insist...


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Not surprised, pleased  . You're very happy and so is Jo. I'm glad you're not paying for something you don't agree with.
> It has been said, but I think on another thread, that in all systems - private, concertado and state - there are good and bad hwell: . What is true of ALL schools is that as far as you can they should be checked out in both your and your childrens' interest .
> In state schools it may be a little difficult, but if you insist...


The problem I personally have with State schools is that I simply dont understand the language well enough to "discuss" policies, the education and how good a particular school. also I couldnt discuss my daughters individual issues and her progress - or lack of it! AND when my daughter tried state school we didnt actually have the choice of which school, it was the local one! And sadly I didnt have a clue whether it was a good school or not. The englsih mums at the school gate seemed to think it was ok...!!????

Jo xxx


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## Tallulah (Feb 16, 2009)

jojo said:


> The problem I personally have with State schools is that I simply dont understand the language well enough to "discuss" policies, the education and how good a particular school. also I couldnt discuss my daughters individual issues and her progress - or lack of it! AND when my daughter tried state school we didnt actually have the choice of which school, it was the local one! And sadly I didnt have a clue whether it was a good school or not. The englsih mums at the school gate seemed to think it was ok...!!????
> 
> Jo xxx


Hi Jo,

Yes, unfortunately with the system here and the absence of an "OFSTED" type report available to the public, we're left to our own research and word of mouth.... We were at a school meeting yesterday and were informed that the Conselleria de Educacion would be carrying out a "diagnostica" in the next few weeks in Primaria and ESO. No individual child's name would be logged, it was just for general results to see how the school was doing results wise. When we gently enquired whether we would be able to see the results, the answer was a resounding "NO" !!! Lets see if we can dig out the info from elsewhere later...


Tally.xxxx


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## Caz.I (Mar 21, 2009)

Tallulah said:


> Hi Jo,
> 
> Yes, unfortunately with the system here and the absence of an "OFSTED" type report available to the public, we're left to our own research and word of mouth.... We were at a school meeting yesterday and were informed that the Conselleria de Educacion would be carrying out a "diagnostica" in the next few weeks in Primaria and ESO. No individual child's name would be logged, it was just for general results to see how the school was doing results wise. When we gently enquired whether we would be able to see the results, the answer was a resounding "NO" !!! Lets see if we can dig out the info from elsewhere later...
> 
> ...


Yes Tally, I think the concept of schools, or the education authority, being accountable in any way is yet to catch on here.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Caz.I said:


> Yes Tally, I think the concept of schools, or the education authority, being accountable in any way is yet to catch on here.


Hey there Caz.I!
How is your little boy doing at school? Did he have to start little by little, I mean did he go a few hours a day before he went "full time"?
That's what they do here with the little ones and it's not to everybody's liking. The idea is that the child has a period of adaptation, but what they usually do is have the child go in alternate days for a couple of hours for the first week/ two weeks. Most of these children have already been in play school and are perfectly "adaptados" to being away from mum and dad and the adaptation period in fact upsets them more than anything else. It also means the parents have to get time off work...
What was your experience of this?


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## Caz.I (Mar 21, 2009)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Hey there Caz.I!
> How is your little boy doing at school? Did he have to start little by little, I mean did he go a few hours a day before he went "full time"?
> That's what they do here with the little ones and it's not to everybody's liking. The idea is that the child has a period of adaptation, but what they usually do is have the child go in alternate days for a couple of hours for the first week/ two weeks. Most of these children have already been in play school and are perfectly "adaptados" to being away from mum and dad and the adaptation period in fact upsets them more than anything else. It also means the parents have to get time off work...
> What was your experience of this?


Hi there Tally,
Apart from still not holding his pencil correctly, I think he is doing okay in school.

This year is his second year in the local infant school, and this year it was only the first day he went for a few hours, after that, it was till 2. However, for the first two weeks last year he had to go for about an hour a day for the first week, and then 2 hours the second and so on, building up to the regular timetable of 9-2pm. 

In his case too, yes, he was already familiar with this kind of time-table (and slightly longer), as he was in nursery school from 15 months because I had to work. So it was probably more confusing when he started school. For those mothers I know who work, this period was more complicated to arrange our work schedules too. Last year, I was fortunate that my son was looked after by his dad for the first 2 weeks of school as he had arranged his holidays for this purpose. But it was more difficult for other parents. The first 2 weeks in September before school starts is always complicated for this reason too. But we also managed this period by organising a babysitting rota between me and 2 of my friends, which worked quite well.

Last year, though, my son had a lovely teacher but she moved to another school this year (only having a temporary contract). This year his teacher is also the head of the curriculum, so she has to be available for this responsibility between 9-10 every day, possibly other times too. At these times then, he has someone else taking his class so I dont really think this a very good setup, in terms of consistency.
Given the current economic crisis, its not like they can be short of teachers, can they?

Anway, after reading this thread I am inspired to go down there soon and have a chat to find out what is going on in the class. I did do that last year and felt quite reassured, though I am worried cos he still cant hold his pencil correctly. As for integrating, he is more Spanish than British, and at school has lots of friends, nearly all Spanish . (Despite living in an expat area, there are very few Brits in his school). In fact he has integrated so well, I often seem them with their arms round each others shoulders, or giving each other a hug, its so sweet!

Caz. I


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## Caz.I (Mar 21, 2009)

Sorry, Pesky, I got confused there for a moment, there and addressed you as Tally!


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Caz.I said:


> Hi there Tally,
> Apart from still not holding his pencil correctly, I think he is doing okay in school.
> 
> SNIP
> Caz. I


get him some triangular pencils


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## Caz.I (Mar 21, 2009)

xabiachica said:


> get him some triangular pencils


yes, he has some, its getting him to use them thats the problem.


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## lynn (Sep 25, 2008)

Caz.I said:


> yes, he has some, its getting him to use them thats the problem.


My youngest child had problems with his fine motor skills when he started school, and couldn't hold a pencil. The school he was at in England put him with the special needs teacher who did various exercises to help him. Apparently, it is quite common, particularly with boys, and it is wrong to force them to hold the pencil as it is a physical delayed development. We were encouraged to do things like sprinkling glitter on to cards, or herbs onto the top of pizzas! That pincer action needs to be exercised to help develop the muscles in the hand. He was also delayed at reading as well as writing, and I was very perplexed, as he could comprehend quite complex information and talk very intelligently about things. Now he is 10 and top of his class! I have been told that he is one of the quite common children who aren't really ready for formal education until 7 years old, and then he just blossomed! It may be worth trying something similar, and don't worry too much as he will get there in his own time


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## Caz.I (Mar 21, 2009)

lynn said:


> My youngest child had problems with his fine motor skills when he started school, and couldn't hold a pencil. The school he was at in England put him with the special needs teacher who did various exercises to help him. Apparently, it is quite common, particularly with boys, and it is wrong to force them to hold the pencil as it is a physical delayed development. We were encouraged to do things like sprinkling glitter on to cards, or herbs onto the top of pizzas! That pincer action needs to be exercised to help develop the muscles in the hand. He was also delayed at reading as well as writing, and I was very perplexed, as he could comprehend quite complex information and talk very intelligently about things. Now he is 10 and top of his class! I have been told that he is one of the quite common children who aren't really ready for formal education until 7 years old, and then he just blossomed! It may be worth trying something similar, and don't worry too much as he will get there in his own time


Thank you Lynn, that's wonderful advice! :clap2::clap2::clap2:


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Caz.I said:


> for the first two weeks last year he had to go for about an hour a day for the first week, and then 2 hours the second and so on, building up to the regular timetable of 9-2pm.
> 
> In his case too, yes, he was already familiar with this kind of time-table (and slightly longer), as he was in nursery school from 15 months because I had to work. So it was probably more confusing when he started school. For those mothers I know who work, this period was more complicated to arrange our work schedules too.
> 
> ...


That's exactly what I meant Caz.I, difficult for the child sometimes and very difficult for the parents. I'm not sure if this happens in the UK or not, which is why i wanted to bring it up here. In theory it's a good idea, but just doesn't do it somehow.

As for the teachers, it has nothing to do with how many teachers are available. It has to do with how much money central and/ or local government are willing to put into education, so I'm sorry, but forget about having a logical, well run education system for now!

As for confusing me with Tally, well!!?? I think I can forgive you!!


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