# Capillarity and settlements - costs?



## IKnowNothing (Nov 9, 2018)

Hi,

newbie here. We're in the process of buying a house north of Malaga. The surveyor we hired has quite a few remarks on "humidity and cracks from capillarity" and "stress cracks on walls". Looking at the fotos he took it sure doesn't look so good, but we didn't see these problems when we visited the house and there was no bad smell or so. 

Unfortunately I can't post any fotos yet due to forum rules. But I will as soon as I can.

Looking for advice here. How bad is this? How common is it? And, above all: anyone who has fixed similar problems, and what did it cost?

Cheers.


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## growurown (Sep 3, 2018)

When was the house built???


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## IKnowNothing (Nov 9, 2018)

In 1989 but I think that's a sort of "standardized date".I think it means it's more than 20 years old but less than 35... It has been extended with some extra 40-50 m2 10-15 years ago. The extension was built on gravel but I think it has the same problems with capillarity as the rest of the house. Strange since gravel should break capillarity, as far as I understand.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Get quotes as to how much it would cost to put right and negotiate this off the selling price?


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## IKnowNothing (Nov 9, 2018)

Thanks, tried that but two different surveyors I've contacted claim they have to "make holes around the house" before even giving me ballpark figures. Can't even get best/worst case estimates. 

Too bad I can't upload the fotos yet.


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## IKnowNothing (Nov 9, 2018)




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## IKnowNothing (Nov 9, 2018)

Hmm... tried posting fotos but the post came out blank...


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

IKnowNothing said:


> Hmm... tried posting fotos but the post came out blank...


Try again as you now have at least 5 posts


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## IKnowNothing (Nov 9, 2018)

Hooray!

Ok, here goes:


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

IKnowNothing said:


> Hi,
> 
> newbie here. We're in the process of buying a house north of Malaga. The surveyor we hired has quite a few remarks on "humidity and cracks from capillarity" and "stress cracks on walls". Looking at the fotos he took it sure doesn't look so good, but we didn't see these problems when we visited the house and there was no bad smell or so.
> 
> ...


 Hmm, I don't really understand... You have a surveyor and he has noticed these problems. Hasn't he given you any indication of how serious the problem is, because he is surely the one who is most qualified to do so, and isn't that what you're paying him for?
Maybe someone on here has had similar problems, but I think it's difficult to compare info from photos. Can you ask the surveyor for the info you're asking for on the forum?


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## IKnowNothing (Nov 9, 2018)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Hmm, I don't really understand... You have a surveyor and he has noticed these problems. Hasn't he given you any indication of how serious the problem is, because he is surely the one who is most qualified to do so, and isn't that what you're paying him for?


Good point. He claims he can neither give me a cost estimate nor recommend the best method(s) to fix this, without having "made holes around the house".

Regarding how serious the problems are, he uses three categories, worst category is like "don't even dare enter the house" and best is "more or less esthetic problem". He categorizes these problems in the best category. I'm not sure I should agree with him on that.


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

IKnowNothing said:


> Good point. He claims he can neither give me a cost estimate nor recommend the best method(s) to fix this, without having "made holes around the house".
> 
> Regarding how serious the problems are, he uses three categories, worst category is like "don't even dare enter the house" and best is "more or less esthetic problem". He categorizes these problems in the best category. I'm not sure I should agree with him on that.


Most of what I see on the pictures looks like a normal problem in Spain - rising damp.

This is because most houses (not new houses) don't have any damp proof membrane.

To remedy this one uses breathable paint and render and keeps the rooms well ventilated.

The other cracks don't look to bad, to me, but them I'm no expert.

It's simple. If you have doubts and don't trust your surveyor - WALK AWAY.


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

I’m no expert but looks like every Spanish house I know


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## Nomoss (Nov 25, 2016)

In some of those images the damage seems a bit high for capillary action (rising damp).

We had a similar problem in our house in Mallorca, which was built of blocks of marés - fine soft sandstone, which is worked by cutting it with a saw.

Several English and Spanish builders diagnosed it as rising damp, but I eventually found a builder who agreed with me that the moisture was coming from above.

The roof was constructed of cast hollow concrete blocks, fitted between pre-stressed concrete beams, covered in a 5 cm cement screed, with the usual curved tiles over that.

A certain amount of water getting through the tiles was soaking into the roof as it ran down, then into the walls, saturating them all the way to the ground. The 60 cm thick walls absorbed so much water that they remained damp almost all year.

The builder removed the tiles, covered the roof with heavy aluminium-backed bitumen material, sealed the joints with bitumen, put a 5 cm screed over that, and replaced the tiles.

The walls dried out in a couple of months, and the problem never reappeared in the 20+ years we had the house.


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## IKnowNothing (Nov 9, 2018)

Interesting. Will keep that possibility in mind. Thanks.


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## The Skipper (Nov 26, 2014)

IKnowNothing said:


> Hooray!
> 
> Ok, here goes:


Every house we viewed back in 2007 looked like this, including the one we eventually bought! At the time we were told that every house in Spain suffers from cracks or damp in walls (which is not true!). The problem in the area where we live is made worse by clay soil which swells in the wet season and shrinks during the long, dry summer, causing the ground beneath the foundations to move. We have strengthened our walls in the places where the worst cracking occurred by "stitching" them with steel bars which is a fairly simple and inexpensive procedure. We eliminated damp in walls by putting a concrete ribbon around the house (as recommended by the Spanish architect who surveyed the property for us). Some friends bought a new-build house near to us ten years ago and this does not suffer from wall cracks because it was built on a concrete "raft" which appears to resist ground movement more effectively.


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## IKnowNothing (Nov 9, 2018)

Good information and feedback, thanks again  Great forum, this.

I found a foto with some left over building material, guess these could be the kind of bricks they used in the walls.


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

Damp is one thing, which although can be unpleasant and difficult to deal with, it doesn't usually result in an uninhabitable house.

The stress cracks however would be more worrying for me.

Of the photos of the "stress cracks", are any of them visible on the other face of the wall?


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## IKnowNothing (Nov 9, 2018)

I've only visited the house on two different occasions, so I can't be absolutely certain, but I'd say none or very few are visible from the outside. I have, however, got the impression the outside has been fixed 1-2 years ago. Could be that there are cracks going all the way through but they're covered by new plaster on the outside.

The surveyor doesn't think there's a risk of the house falling down, though.


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

The outside has been repaired? Or the outside has had the damage covered up?

I haven't seen this house, and it's not my money, so the choice is yours, but if it was me I'd be walking (or maybe running) away.


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

Overandout said:


> The outside has been repaired? Or the outside has had the damage covered up?
> 
> I haven't seen this house, and it's not my money, so the choice is yours, but if it was me I'd be walking (or maybe running) away.


I wouldn't.

I'd be taking the advice of the architect (structural surveyor) - they are far more qualified to know if all is well with the property or not


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

snikpoh said:


> I wouldn't.
> 
> I'd be taking the advice of the architect (structural surveyor) - they are far more qualified to know if all is well with the property or not


And how do you know that I am not a qualified building surveyor?


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## The Skipper (Nov 26, 2014)

IKnowNothing said:


> Good information and feedback, thanks again  Great forum, this.
> 
> I found a foto with some left over building material, guess these could be the kind of bricks they used in the walls.


I have used blocks like this for building walls around my property but I am not sure if they are commonly used in house construction (I am not, by the way, a builder - just a keen DIY-er). My house has an original part built (circa 1960) with large and very heavy solid concrete blocks. Various extensions over the years have been built with terracotta bricks which have a honeycomb-like interior. Most new building work I see in my area seems to use this type of brick.


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

Sorry to say, but the type of blocks used in the wall is not really going to help an internet second guess (which is what we are doing). We have no idea if the walls (which may have been built using these blocks) are even load bearing or there is a structural frame to the building.

I confess that in my last comment (about running away) I was assuming that the walls with stress cracks are load bearing, but of course that is a big assumption to make. 

Sorry for being alarmist.

Although I do find the OP's surveyor's reluctance to commit to firm recommendations quite odd.


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## IKnowNothing (Nov 9, 2018)

I appreciate all the comments. And I'm happy to hear that my confusion and uncertainty seems to be shared among some of you. Hmm... don't know quite what to do. Calling in a second surveyor sounds silly. 

Does anyone have any worst case scenarios and costs to share? A naive question, I know....


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

IKnowNothing said:


> I appreciate all the comments. And I'm happy to hear that my confusion and uncertainty seems to be shared among some of you. Hmm... don't know quite what to do. Calling in a second surveyor sounds silly.
> 
> Does anyone have any worst case scenarios and costs to share? A naive question, I know....


I disagree calling in a second surveyor seems sensible as clearly you don’t trust what you are being told! Nobody on here can give you worst case scenarios or costs because we haven’t seen the property. We can only give you advice based on our own experiences. We bought a house with damp, leaks and cracks all of which have been resolved but, big caveat, my husband was builder by trade. At the end of the day, it’s your money and your risk. Sounds to me, and again it’s only my opinion, the fact that you are undecided tells me your not happy to take the risk ?


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## IKnowNothing (Nov 9, 2018)

I handed the first surveyors report to the second surveyor, who told me she couldn't give an estimate for repair costs either. The first surveyor wants his firm to start the job (initially by making holes around the house) without a price estimate, which is why I am unsure about him. 

I can take the risk but would prefer to know what kind of sums we're talking about. Hence the question about what other people have payed. I'm just asking for round figures, and don't need info that can identify the owners or objects. OK?


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## The Skipper (Nov 26, 2014)

IKnowNothing said:


> I handed the first surveyors report to the second surveyor, who told me she couldn't give an estimate for repair costs either. The first surveyor wants his firm to start the job (initially by making holes around the house) without a price estimate, which is why I am unsure about him.
> 
> I can take the risk but would prefer to know what kind of sums we're talking about. Hence the question about what other people have payed. I'm just asking for round figures, and don't need info that can identify the owners or objects. OK?


I think you are asking for information that nobody on this forum is in a position to answer. It’s like asking “how long is a piece of string!” I could give you some idea of what I paid ten years ago to resolve similar problems but my house is probably totally different than the one you are interested in buying. Personally I would not pay for detailed surveying work on a house that I didn’t own. I would tell the vendor that he should pay for reports that explain the reason for cracks and damp. If he refused I would walk away. I did have an architect’s report on my house but it came as part of a fixed-price package from a company that arranged viewings with estate agents and also handled all the legal work of buying. The full package cost €5,000 but it didn’t include any excavation or drilling into walls (just photos and a written report). My architect’s opinion was that water would be trapped around the house in heavy rain and that damp in the walls was due to this (penetrating damp rather than rising damp from below ground moisture). He recommended a concrete ribbon around the vulnerable outside walls with drainage to carry away water. We did this and re-plastered the inside walls which have remained bone dry ever since. We were also advised to fell four huge pine trees close to the house. Each one of these, apparently, extracted annually about 50,000 litres of water from the soil which exacerbated the ground movement that caused cracking. This was not a total success and I still have to fill some cracks at the end of every dry season but that is not too much of a problem (I always keep all the inside walls the same colour and keep a spare tin of paint for touching up!). As mentioned earlier, I also “stitched” the walls with steel bars in the worst places and so far this has proved successful. All of this work (some of which I did myself) probably cost about another €5,000 but it was a long time ago and was done at the same time as some major general building improvements. I can’t, therefore, be too sure about figures and, of course, it is not really much of a guide for you as our properties are probably totally different. However, I hope my comments provide some food for thought!


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## IKnowNothing (Nov 9, 2018)

I know it was a "question impossible" but still, your answer was exactly the type I was looking for. Thanks!

Hmm...just thinking. If I calculate with up to 20 000 Euros for fixing this, but also keep some additional money in reserve, then it sounds as if I might not be in too great a risk of going bankrupt. Or?


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