# The 10-year escape to Spain plan



## AlanS (Jan 1, 2013)

In 2010 my OH and I set ourselves a ten-year plan to emigrate to Spain, like many before us on here the dream being a moving to sunnier climes, a slower paced lifestyle and something different to what is going on here in Blighty.

Part 1 of the plan is to learn the lingo over the years, to date we have completed 2 years of College evening classes learning Spanish although we won't be doing a third year this time round due to work commitments. We want to be able to get by in Spanish so that communication is never an issue in deciding where to live. We holiday each year in Spain, trying different resorts (so far prefer Del Sol) and we always hire a car so we can get around to see as many places as possible.

Part 2 is in a few years to buy a property, a holiday home if you will, so we can visit more frequently over time and become more accustomed to the local way of life in Spain. Like others I am sure, we will be monitoring the falling property prices in Spain and hopefully the timing will be right for when we are in a position to buy.

Your top tips please. Having read through many posts on here giving advice to folk who are itching to get on the next plane out of the UK I wonder what you thoughts would be if in hindsight you had a few years to plan the move? What else should we consider, given that our intended move won't be for some time yet. I will be 55 in 2020, my partner 51. Thanks.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

I think your planning is sound and sensible. Few 'experts' believe property prices in Spain will recover in the next ten years. Its good that you're learning Spanish too. 

My only comment would be that I don't feel comfortable when I hear the word dream ' used in connection with a move to Spain. Don't get me wrong, life here can be extremely enjoyable, especially for those like you who plan ahead carefully. But apart from a lot more sunshine, life here is in most respects just like life in the UK. JoJo always reminds us that you go shopping, cook dinner, do the washing, clean the loo....just as in the UK.
It can be very cold and damp in winter and Spanish houses tend to be built with summer in mind. It's not so cold on the coast but inland it can be bitterly cold with frost and snow.
There are hazards in some parts too. Floods, fires, mudslides blocking roads, rivers dry in summer that become raging torrents in winter.
But there's no doubt that life can be good here.We came from three years in Prague planning to move on to France after a few years but we're here for good now.
We weren't 'itching to get out of the UK'- in many ways it's a kinder place to its citizens than Spain. 
But if you come prepared and prepared for the unexpected there's no reason you shouldn't be as happy as we are.
Oh..be sure to read up on Spanish tax rules...


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## thrax (Nov 13, 2008)

My advice would be don't buy anything here just now. Have more holidays in different areas so that you feel comfortable with where you think you want to live. Holidays in Spain are nothing like living here so to buy too early could be a terrible mistake.


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## bob_bob (Jan 5, 2011)

Why on earth buy when you can rent and retain mobility?

I don't know how old you are Alan but you'll be a decade older when you move so don't burn your bridges with the UK as there may come a day when you need to leave Spain and own a property you just can't sell or if you do perhaps without loosing money on it.

Make sure you have enough in your back pocket to cover a return, as I'm sure your aware you can no longer just turn up in the UK and get benefits and housing; those days are gone. If you only have one UK property look at renting it out. If you have more than one then consider selling one and using the proceeds to fund long term rental until you are sure Spain is for you and you'll never return.


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## crookesey (May 22, 2008)

Ten years, making you both currently in your 40's, you can't plan for your 50's when your in your 40's, believe me. What you can do is to keep on having a look around, save enough to give you say, 12 months in Spain without having any money concerns, I quite envy you guys, go for it.


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## zenkarma (Feb 15, 2013)

AlanS said:


> Your top tips please. Having read through many posts on here giving advice to folk who are itching to get on the next plane out of the UK I wonder what you thoughts would be if in hindsight you had a few years to plan the move? What else should we consider, given that our intended move won't be for some time yet. I will be 55 in 2020, my partner 51. Thanks.


It's admirable you're planning that far ahead—that's the right way to go about things. It allows you the time to fully research everything you will need to know about relocating and living in Spain.

Learn from others mistakes. We live in very uncertain times and a lot can change and change quite quickly which is why you need to build in flexibility. 

Flexibility is key—giving you the ability to quickly change your plans if you need to without unnecessary financial burden and expenditure.

The question you really need to ask, understand and answer is what are the advantages of buying a property as opposed to renting one, in this current market? Renting could well give you much greater flexibility to adapt, change and experience different areas over buying a property.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

AlanS said:


> In 2010 my OH and I set ourselves a ten-year plan to emigrate to Spain ...


This is more or less what we did, and it worked for us. 

I'm glad we bought our house rather than renting. We used it as s holiday home for a few years before retiring. It was lovely knowing it was there like a comfy pair of shoes waiting for us when we needed a break. 

We were careful to buy a house big enough to accommodate us and our various hobbies when we did eventually move here permanently in 2008. Planning is everything!


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

I understand why you'd want to buy a property and can see where Alcalaina's post is coming from, but I would also advise you to rent before you buy if for no other reason than an area can change a lot in 10 years. Also your needs could change. In those 10 years you could rent lots of properties in lots of areas, or a few properties in just one area to really get a feel of what would suit you.
I think it makes sense to go slowly in a country that you don't really know and where you don't really speak the language. I don't think it's so easy to pick up on new roads that are being built, changes in land use, future plans for public land etc. Also it's vital that you visit the same area in all the different seasons. 10º as an outside winter temp might sound great now, but it's not so great if the house you're in has poor insulation and no central heating . In the winter the forum fills up with posts from people in the south talking about wearing blankets 24/ 7 inside their houses, gas heaters and mould on the walls!!!
Changing the subject, it's a wonderful idea to learn as much Spanish as possible. Not only that, I'd say it's essential to gain understanding of the country that after all will be your home. A couple of pointers. I fully understand that keeping up classes twice a week for years is difficult, but don't take this year off from Spanish completely. You run the risk of losing everything you've done so far! I always recommend the free BBC online courses which you can look at at home. It may be too easy for you, but there are plenty of other things out there (Spanish steps, also by the BBC isn't available any more)
BBC - Languages - Spanish - Mi Vida Loca
BBC - Learn Spanish with free online lessons


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

If we had bought the first property we lived in we would both have been as miserable as sin. 
If we had bought the property we now enjoy living in so much we wouldn't be able to easily move and downsize in around five years' time when the house will be far too big for us to look after.
If we had bought instead of renting we wouldn't be in a position where we would be worrying about the need for possibly choosing high quality private health care in our dotage as we invested the proceeds of the property sales.

But that's us. We've had properties all our lives, those we've lived in, those we've rented out and our commercial premises. So for us it was like ridding ourselves of a millstone on our backs. We chose to turn bricks and mortar into investment funding and ready cash.. We hope to die penniless.

Others have different needs and experiences they bring with them. Like Alcalaina, they think it through, plan carefully, choose well and are content. We planned to the extent that we knew where we wanted to be at various stages in our lives but we are also aware as Pesky wisely points out that environments change and your once peaceful country cottage can find itself beside a major highway or near to a sewage works.

If you are intent on buying, fair enough. You may wish to leave your property as an inheritance for your family. My son and dil already have properties in Spain and my ex-husband has property in France they will inherit. So no worries there. But renting in an area *before* you buy is imo essential. You need to know things you can't possibly find out in a visit of comparably short duration. When we first arrived, we lived in a rented piso for three months which we hated...it was like being in a hotel. Owners rented out their flats for holiday accommodation so there was constant comings and goings and there were few Spaniards living there. It just didn't feel as if we were living in Spain, it was like one of those impersonal international hotel chains. I hated it and didn't feel settled and happy until we found our current home and I could settle in and feel I was living in Spain and not on some kind of extended holiday.

But as I said, that's my way of looking at it. Horses for courses.


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## zenkarma (Feb 15, 2013)

mrypg9 said:


> So for us it was like ridding ourselves of a millstone on our backs. We chose to turn bricks and mortar into investment funding and ready cash...


Yes, good post.

Owning property can become a millstone if your future requirements, needs and current environment changes—and no-one can predict that.

Buying a property nails you to one place. People will argue with some conviction that you can always sell up and move on. But that's not easy in this current Spanish property market and one of the reasons why so many people are stuck with properties they can't sell.

The conventional argument against renting has always been that it's dead money and in some ways it is, but it doesn't have to be. Take someone with an average UK property, they could sell that, buy a smaller one with half the money and rent it out. Now that rental income can fund a rental property in Spain which wouldn't cost a bean. The only money thats been invested in property is in the UK where the property market is far more stable than Spain and likely to hold its value. 

That in my opinion gives people much greater flexibility without committing large amounts of capital.

There's also option to buy rental schemes out there too that are looking very attractive at the moment. You agree a price in this market to buy and you rent for 1-5 years depending on the contract length. If you decide to buy the rental money goes towards the purchase price, if you decide not to exercise your option to buy you just move on somewhere else.

Buying and committing capital outlay on Spanish property isn't the only option out there at the moment.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

zenkarma said:


> The conventional argument against renting has always been that it's dead money and in some ways it is, but it doesn't have to be.


It's only dead money if you're doing it when the perfect property to buy is next door. If you're doing it to prevent a possible buying disaster that you may have to sell further down the line 'cos you made a mistake when you bought, then it's not dead money at all. It's a kind of investment. 
Buying the wrong property may not only be dead money , it might be a nail in the coffin.
But, as others have said, only the OP can make up his/ her mind what's right for them.


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## zenkarma (Feb 15, 2013)

Pesky Wesky said:


> It's only dead money if you're doing it when the perfect property to buy is next door.


I understand what you mean but it's not what I meant by 'dead money'. What I really mean by this expression is that it's money that's been spent with no chance of getting any of it back—it's dead. Or in financial speak it's 'sunk' you can't get it back and you can't use it for anything else.

When you buy a property, the money you pay on a mortgage isn't 'dead' because it's going towards the acquisition of an asset. That asset should theoretically increase in value was well. So ultimately the money you invest in buying a property asset should at some point in the future be returned to you either via rental income or by liquidating the asset. The same applies if you buy a property with cash rather than a mortgage, the cash invested should at some point be returned to you, hopefully at an increased margin.

What you're really talking about here is 'opportunity cost' which is slightly different.



Pesky Wesky said:


> But, as others have said, only the OP can make up his/ her mind what's right for them.


Of course. What works for one person won't necessarily work for someone else.

What's important though is to put up all the various options and let people decide for themselves which might be best for them in the short, medium and long terms.

The Spanish property market at the moment is extremely unstable and no-one really knows what's it's going to do over the short and long term. It could go down even further, it could continue to stagnate or it might even start to rise. 

You can only make decisions at a particular point in time based on the veracity, integrity and accuracy of the information you have available to make them. Once that information changes, the basis on which you've made your decision may become unstable depending on how the changes may affect you. 

Given that no-one can currently accurately predict what the Spanish property market is going to do—any decisions based on current information are going to be somewhat dubious.

In my opinion, renting gives people the greatest flexibility to change and adapt as the Spanish property market also changes.

Personally I think the current situation will simply continue for some years. There's currently 2 million empty and unsold properties. Current sales are in the region of about 50,000 a year (although I'd need to check that figure). You do the maths on how long it will take that backlog to be sold and the demand be there to start moving the market again.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Pesky Wesky said:


> It's only dead money if you're doing it when the perfect property to buy is next door. If you're doing it to prevent a possible buying disaster that you may have to sell further down the line 'cos you made a mistake when you bought, then it's not dead money at all. It's a kind of investment.
> Buying the wrong property may not only be dead money , it might be a nail in the coffin.
> But, as others have said, only the OP can make up his/ her mind what's right for them.


Everyone's situation is unique to them. Twenty years ago I would have been horrified at the very thought of not owning property. Now it's the last thing I want although we have funds enough to buy if we so wished.

The main plus point for us is the flexibilty..and not having money tied up in still-depreciatingnbricks and mortar....


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## AlanS (Jan 1, 2013)

Thanks for all of your comments guys, all noted 

Renting is probably the way to go until such a time that we are absolutely certain of location and of course employment! But that is all a long way off. I intend to learn business lingo too (and not just conversational) as I will need to work for a fair few years if I did come over. 

Pesky, thanks for the links to the BBC language website that is probably the route we will take for this academic year, any learning has to be better than none eh? You are right that if we didn't do any refresher learning for a year or so there would be a danger of forgetting most of what we had already learned.

I appreciate that at the moment jobs are hard to come by and that will certainly be a major factor when considering the best time to make the move. Hopefully things will improve soon for those of you who are struggling to find work.

Gorgeous day here in Nottingham btw!


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## lee25767 (Sep 22, 2013)

hi, I too would like to get out to spain, my wife and I are goingh over for a week to have a look about but can anyone give me some advise on where the warmest place is in winter?


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## AlanS (Jan 1, 2013)

Welcome to the site Lee. Prepare for some realism with regard to temperatures at night in Spain in winter, I don't live over there yet but from what I gather Canaries is the place to be if it is winter sun you are after.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

lee25767 said:


> hi, I too would like to get out to spain, my wife and I are goingh over for a week to have a look about but can anyone give me some advise on where the warmest place is in winter?


:welcome:

yes, as Alan says, if you want guaranteed warmth all year round it would have to be the Canaries

we've already had temps of 12º at night this month - & out of the sun it's quite chilly even during the day - a friend of mine wrapped up in a blanket when we were sitting outside a bar on Friday about 11am - it was hot actually in the sun, but we were out of it & there was a bit of a breeze!


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## crookesey (May 22, 2008)

AlanS said:


> Thanks for all of your comments guys, all noted
> 
> Renting is probably the way to go until such a time that we are absolutely certain of location and of course employment! But that is all a long way off. I intend to learn business lingo too (and not just conversational) as I will need to work for a fair few years if I did come over.
> 
> ...


It still is a lovely day, I have been shooting on the Renishaw Estate, not too far from you, I reckon that I've topped up my tan.

Back on topic, you have 10 years to sort things out, I suggest that ruling out finding employment but creating something to bring in money would be the best way to go. But none of us know anything about the pair of you, skills wise, you might just have what is needed to survive without seeking employment. 

Please don't mention football.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

AlanS said:


> Welcome to the site Lee. Prepare for some realism with regard to temperatures at night in Spain in winter, I don't live over there yet but from what I gather Canaries is the place to be if it is winter sun you are after.


We get plenty of all year round sun here too. In fact, most months you'll have enough sun to sit out comfortably. 

Our current problem is lack of rain. It hasn't rained since April.


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## A1sauce (Jul 20, 2013)

Good luck to the OP! A lot of solid advice here...especially regarding being very careful in selecting the right place to live, before you jump into...which is the exact mistake that we made when we purchased a house on a whim in France ~10 yrs ago. However, we now have a slightly different perspective...our current plan is to buy a place (with all cash) in the most desirable location/city that we can afford, that is within close walking distance of beach/amenities but also located in the historic center of a desirable town. I am 55 years old, I really want to have a place when I retire in ten years that has no mortgage, which seems almost impossible in the USA given the very high property values that are created with 30 year mortgages. Interestingly, the prices of the type of property that I described are currently much less costly in Spain, than in the best areas of Mexico...which mirror the USA. Nothing against Mexico (I have a daughter that was born there) but it is no Spain and doesn't have the easy access to the rest of Europe. Since I have a minimum ten year horizon, I am seriously considering buying a "placeholder" that we can use at least several times a year, until we finally move there and (conceptually) not miss out on value increases that occur, that could price us out of the market down the road...which I sense may occur having been thru several downturns. The pendulum always swings too far in each direction in real estate. ..people forget the good and bad times. However, feel free to tell me that I am wrong, as this will be a rather large investment for us. We are planning to buy something next year, after looking for the right place (just several times)...but we think we know what we want and we don't have the possibility of renting ahead of time. Having made the site selection mistake in France (where we learned a valuable lesson) and being in real estate for the last 30 years, I feel confident that we won't make a terrible blunder, but maybe I am looking at it all wrong. Based upon what some people are saying, should we just keep the money in the bank and see where we are in ten years time? Possibly, but life is too short and that doesn't sound like much fun! BTW, I do hear that some "big money" is looking at Spain as a very smart (though long term) investment, something that also happened here in California. Thoughts?


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

A1sauce said:


> Good luck to the OP! A lot of solid advice here...especially regarding being very careful in selecting the right place to live, before you jump into...which is the exact mistake that we made when we purchased a house on a whim in France ~10 yrs ago. However, we now have a slightly different perspective...our current plan is to buy a place (with all cash) in the most desirable location/city that we can afford, that is within close walking distance of beach/amenities but also located in the historic center of a desirable town. I am 55 years old, I really want to have a place when I retire in ten years that has no mortgage, which seems almost impossible in the USA given the very high property values that are created with 30 year mortgages. Interestingly, the prices of the type of property that I described are currently much less costly in Spain, than in the best areas of Mexico...which mirror the USA. Nothing against Mexico (I have a daughter that was born there) but it is no Spain and doesn't have the easy access to the rest of Europe. Since I have a minimum ten year horizon, I am seriously considering buying a "placeholder" that we can use at least several times a year, until we finally move there and (conceptually) not miss out on value increases that occur, that could price us out of the market down the road...which I sense may occur having been thru several downturns. The pendulum always swings too far in each direction in real estate. ..people forget the good and bad times. However, feel free to tell me that I am wrong, as this will be a rather large investment for us. We are planning to buy something next year, after looking for the right place (just several times)...but we think we know what we want and we don't have the possibility of renting ahead of time. Having made the site selection mistake in France (where we learned a valuable lesson) and being in real estate for the last 30 years, I feel confident that we won't make a terrible blunder, but maybe I am looking at it all wrong. Based upon what some people are saying, should we just keep the money in the bank and see where we are in ten years time? Possibly, but life is too short and that doesn't sound like much fun! BTW, I do hear that some "big money" is looking at Spain as a very smart (though long term) investment, something that also happened here in California. Thoughts?


Russian and Arab money, maybe.

Really wealthy Brits buy in more exotic places in the Caribbean, France, parts of Italy ...and the US!


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## gus-lopez (Jan 4, 2010)

A1sauce said:


> BTW, I do hear that some "big money" is looking at Spain as a very smart (though long term) investment, something that also happened here in California. Thoughts?



Yes, I was reading an article friday. Buying in the 00's & 000's, but investment firms. Don't ask for a link as I've no idea where it was as I read so much tat during the day.if I come across it again I'll post it.


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## bob_bob (Jan 5, 2011)

lee25767 said:


> hi, I too would like to get out to spain, my wife and I are goingh over for a week to have a look about but can anyone give me some advise on where the warmest place is in winter?


The Canary Islands, you get less brick for your money because of the year round weather but... its warm


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## AlanS (Jan 1, 2013)

crookesey said:


> Please don't mention football.


Sheff Utd lost, is that ok?


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## AlanS (Jan 1, 2013)

mrypg9 said:


> We get plenty of all year round sun here too. In fact, most months you'll have enough sun to sit out comfortably.
> 
> Our current problem is lack of rain. It hasn't rained since April.


As long as the golf courses survive Mary ;-)


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## crookesey (May 22, 2008)

AlanS said:


> Sheff Utd lost, is that ok?


That's fine, they don't constitute anything to do with football.


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## zenkarma (Feb 15, 2013)

gus-lopez said:


> Yes, I was reading an article friday. Buying in the 00's & 000's, but investment firms. Don't ask for a link as I've no idea where it was as I read so much tat during the day.if I come across it again I'll post it.


I was reading a similar article, it might have been this one in El Pais:

Spain: for sale | In English | EL PAÍS

There's some seriously large money being invested in Spanish real estate at the moment by the institutional investors. Which rather suggests (I say somewhat cautiously) that the bottom my well have been reached. It's important not note however, that most of this money is being invested in large swathes of property in and around major cities. Very little of it is being invested in or around the coastal regions.


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## lee25767 (Sep 22, 2013)

thanks for your reply but want to buy in spain, maybe Andalucia area?
just wanted to know about the temp in winter, not too bothered about night time. My wife and i are planning a trip for a week in Feb to have a look about and get a feel for the place


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

lee25767 said:


> thanks for your reply but want to buy in spain, maybe Andalucia area?
> just wanted to know about the temp in winter, not too bothered about night time. My wife and i are planning a trip for a week in Feb to have a look about and get a feel for the place


Andalucia is a huge area. I live in the southwest and we have mild winters with quite a lot of rain but plenty of warm sunny days. The rain makes it green and beautiful until the end of May. Then it is hot and dry till Sept-Oct.


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## lee25767 (Sep 22, 2013)

hi,
thanks for the tip. I know its not going to be boiling hot like the summer months but still better than snowy/cold england! lol


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## LindaT (Sep 9, 2014)

If I had my time again, I would rent. It is easy to get out of if you want to move again. The way the property market is going, you might lose a lot of money - I did! Unfortunately we always think the grass is greener on the other side, but please think again. Go there with your eyes well and truly open. Keep safe on the financial front. Err on the side of great caution.


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