# FBAR Timeline



## Guest

I would like to hear specifically from US citizens residing in Canada.

Two questions...

How many people in Canada (percentage wise) do you think have filed so far? You can include through a quiet disclosure? 

I am thinking, (since it take a long time to tabulate your information) that less than 10% have filed so far.

Also...for those of us who HAVE filed....how long ago did you submit and have you heard anything back yet?


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## Stargazer

I don't know. I remember reading an article by a cross-border accountant that estimated fewer than 20% of Americans in Canada file US taxes at all. Not sure how that would have changed now that it's in the news.


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## Guest

IMO I think a lot of people are desparatly trying to file...but as you know it does not happen overnight. It took me a good 6 weeks to get my ducks in a row.

there is also a large percentage of Dual Citizens/Permanent residents who could just not be bothered.


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## 416

Stargazer said:


> I don't know. I remember reading an article by a cross-border accountant that estimated fewer than 20% of Americans in Canada file US taxes at all. Not sure how that would have changed now that it's in the news.


It's far fewer than that. In 2006 35,000 US returns declared Canadian income at all. Not all of those filers would have been based in Canada.


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## Stargazer

Mach7 said:


> IMO I think a lot of people are desparatly trying to file...but as you know it does not happen overnight. It took me a good 6 weeks to get my ducks in a row.
> 
> there is also a large percentage of Dual Citizens/Permanent residents who could just not be bothered.


I can't imagine how onerous it would be to have to file years of back tax returns and FBARs.

As for your second point, I have blogged about this issue before, and occasionally mentioned it to people in my town who are American citizens. But I know many people in my small town who seem totally oblivious to this. And I wrestle with whether or not to inform them directly or not. Part of me hopes they'll just be OK if they do nothing...


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## Vangrrl

Stargazer said:


> I can't imagine how onerous it would be to have to file years of back tax returns and FBARs.
> 
> As for your second point, I have blogged about this issue before, and occasionally mentioned it to people in my town who are American citizens. But I know many people in my small town who seem totally oblivious to this. And I wrestle with whether or not to inform them directly or not. Part of me hopes they'll just be OK if they do nothing...


I live in a border town and 3 of my kid's classmates have American parents (who arrrived as adults, not long time duals like me). I asked them directly if they were filing US taxes. All 3 of them said the same thing "No, I know I should, but I don't owe any taxes to the US so I stopped bothering with it". They raised their eyebrows a bit when I mentioned Fbar and penalties. They all said they'd probably go ahead and file back a couple of years (these are all young parents with normal earned income and modest assets). But honestly, I don't think any of them did.

Based on that small sample size, I'd say that most are not filing, even knowing that they should, and don't think this is something worth taking seriously. They might be right. I've back-filed 5 years and will continue filing in good faith going forward but if it seems like there is really no consequence to not filing (as I suspect there isn't), I may fall off the radar again in a few years.

BTW - I filed in mid-September. My understanding is that you don't hear anything from the IRS (there is no equivalent to the notice of assessment we get from CRA). Fbar.... I'm sure there is a backlog. Still not really expecting to hear anything.


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## Stargazer

Vangrrl said:


> I live in a border town and 3 of my kid's classmates have American parents (who arrrived as adults, not long time duals like me). I asked them directly if they were filing US taxes. All 3 of them said the same thing "No, I know I should, but I don't owe any taxes to the US so I stopped bothering with it". They raised their eyebrows a bit when I mentioned Fbar and penalties. They all said they'd probably go ahead and file back a couple of years (these are all young parents with normal earned income and modest assets). But honestly, I don't think any of them did.
> 
> Based on that small sample size, I'd say that most are not filing, even knowing that they should, and don't think this is something worth taking seriously. They might be right. I've back-filed 5 years and will continue filing in good faith going forward but if it seems like there is really no consequence to not filing (as I suspect there isn't), I may fall off the radar again in a few years.
> 
> BTW - I filed in mid-September. My understanding is that you don't hear anything from the IRS (there is no equivalent to the notice of assessment we get from CRA). Fbar.... I'm sure there is a backlog. Still not really expecting to hear anything.


I imagine people have to make a risk assessment for themselves. We file because: we moved here as adults, we may move back to the US at some point, I may get a US inheritance at some point, I definitely want any Social Security money we have due, and I don't want problems renewing US passports or traveling to see American family members. 

Contrast this with one friend I have in town. Moved to Canada with her biological family as a kid, married a Canadian, plans to stay in Canada, never worked in the US. It may be less risky for her to do nothing, I don't know.


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## Vangrrl

Stargazer said:


> I imagine people have to make a risk assessment for themselves. We file because: we moved here as adults, we may move back to the US at some point, I may get a US inheritance at some point, I definitely want any Social Security money we have due, and I don't want problems renewing US passports or traveling to see American family members.
> 
> Contrast this with one friend I have in town. Moved to Canada with her biological family as a kid, married a Canadian, plans to stay in Canada, never worked in the US. It may be less risky for her to do nothing, I don't know.


I agree. I'm a mix of the categories you describe. I have a Canadian family, no financial ties (no inheritance or SS) and chances are next to none that I will ever move to the US. BUT I want to travel freely to the US and basically just keep living my life as usual.


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## Guest

The coming Canada-U.S. tax war - The Globe and Mail

Poll

"If you are an American citizen living in Canada, how are you planning to deal with the IRS cross-border tax crackdown?


9% 273 votes 
I applied for the limited-time amnesty
. 

10% 321 votes 
I am still working out a plan with a financial professional
. 

25% 799 votes 
I am not sure what my options are
. 

56% 1776 votes 
Nothing, how will they find me?


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## Guest

Well....that pretty well sums it up. I am surprised at the high percentile of OVDI....


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## Peg

That poll implies you have to use a professional --- and right now I disagree but when I hear from the IRS we'll see if I change my mind 

Both my sibling and I filed under OVDI - their financial advisers recommended it and I didn't have enough time to research it before the deadline and simply looked at small or large penalty. I have since opted out.

So, where do I fit in the G&M poll???

Joined OVDI, opted out, backfiled 5 years and Renounced - all in 71 days!


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## Guest

Peg said:


> That poll implies you have to use a professional --- and right now I disagree but when I hear from the IRS we'll see if I change my mind
> 
> Both my sibling and I filed under OVDI - their financial advisers recommended it and I didn't have enough time to research it before the deadline and simply looked at small or large penalty. I have since opted out.
> 
> So, where do I fit in the G&M poll???
> 
> Joined OVDI, opted out, backfiled 5 years and Renounced - all in 71 days!



Fitting in is not what it's cracked up to be -- and why we're all supporting one another here. 

HAPPY U.S. THANKSGIVING ALL. Hope you've had some family phone calls -- and lots of good memories of Thanksgivings past. 

I'm thankful for celebrating with my family here in October.


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## Guest

Calgary411 said:


> HAPPY U.S. THANKSGIVING ALL. Hope you've had some family phone calls -- and lots of good memories of Thanksgivings past.


Yes, HAPPY THANKSGIVING! I am driving down tomorrow due to a wedding in the family on Saturday and have made arrangements to see favorite aunts and so on. Especially poignant as underneath, having the fear that I may never see any of them again - they are getting on in years and I am not going to pay any FUBAR fines, so who knows? Hope the only trouble I get is wait time at the border - didn't realize til today that the cross-border shopping will be a nightmare.

And day after I get back, first renunciation meeting. So, hmm, am I just a 1/2 American now, since dual or am I a 1/2 American after the first meeting?


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## Peg

Calgary411 said:


> Fitting in is not what it's cracked up to be -- and why we're all supporting one another here.


Does this line from "What a Girl Wants" apply (read with British accent):

_Why are you trying so hard to fit in when you were born to stand out?_


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## Vangrrl

Calgary411 said:


> Fitting in is not what it's cracked up to be -- and why we're all supporting one another here.
> 
> HAPPY U.S. THANKSGIVING ALL. Hope you've had some family phone calls -- and lots of good memories of Thanksgivings past.
> 
> I'm thankful for celebrating with my family here in October.


Happy Thanksgiving all!!

We're heading across the border tomorrow night for Thanksgiving Dinner at a close friends house (who are Canadian ex-pats and all the guests are Canadians, hence the Saturday dinner lol). Safe travels to those who are braving the border this weekend!


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