# Have you come to Spain in the last year and found work?



## Pesky Wesky

*Have you come to Spain in the last year and found work?*

If you have could you tell us the geographical area and what kind of work? It's good to know where they're taking on people and what kind of work you can expect to find.
Thanks!


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## mrypg9

And if it's legal work i.e. not on the black...


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## Monkey Hangers

*Work*

I moved to Spain September 2011 and thus far have had 5 weeks temporary work in Iceland, San Javier up until Christmas period. Astounded how many people handed cvs in on a daily basis. Permanent job is like waiting for dead men's shoes. Nothing since.


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## mazlester

Same job and location as Monkey Hangar but was taken back on after Xmas.


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## 90199

We keep getting approached to give English lessons, conversational and grammatical, however we always try to decline, mainly because neither of us are English teachers, plus we are retired and don't need to work. 

The last was a young lady who is studying law in Madrid, not wanting to disappoint, we spent time with her in a bar just chatting in English, and she would have been prepared to pay for this.

This week we were asked by the Tourist information office, to check translations from Spanish to English, we did this for free.

We have also been approached by the Bus and Taxi Co-Op, to assist in giving classes to the drivers in basic English, mainly for the correct pronunciation, we shall not accept payment for this.

Perhaps there is an opportunity here for a self employed English teacher, a brave one!


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## MaidenScotland

Sadly I don't think this will be a long thread,


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## jojo

I was in Spain for 3 years before I got work. Admittedly, I wasnt looking desperately, because of childcare and school runs, my husband was commuting which covered our finances. However, I finally found a job in a friends cafe (200€ a month for full time work), but this was on the black/cash in hand and he eventually had to close up.
We then moved down to the coast, Benalmadena and I found there was a fair bit of work on the costas doing commission only telesales, I seemed to do fairly well at it, but it was horrendous. I worked for three different companies and the last two actually put me on a contract and gave me a small basic + commission. They were selling time share, in the guise of cheap holidays to Brits over the phone. The first one (a well known timeshare company) was very high pressured and if you didnt hit your target in the first month tho you were out - it was so strict, every call was monitored and you actually had to stand up when you spoke to customers and read exactly from a script!! Looking back, I dont know how or why I did it. The second one was more laid back, altho the pressure to hit targets was all consuming

Jo xxxx


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## mrypg9

I think the main focus should be on the kind of work ...the hours and the pay.
If you are single you could perhaps be satisfied with a low rate and longish hours. After all, if /when you've had enough you can move on. But if you are looking to bring a family over it's a wholly different ballgame.
And that's why we try to tell people this is not the time to relocate with your family if you need work to survive.
Working casually for a day or so a week will not bring in enough to pay the rent and if you are illegal you won't get health care or other benefits if you are in need.


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## Casslar

The only jobs I see advertised locally are sales and marketing based, it looks like most are commission-heavy, ie little or no basic. I am sure some people make good money this way, and a portfolio of representation work - going out and meeting potential clients rather than pounding away at a phone - might be lucrative for the right person. But I think to get by in Spain as an expat currently, it's good if you can consult for clients overseas or somehow make your own work...


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## Pesky Wesky

mazlester said:


> Same job and location as Monkey Hangar but was taken back on after Xmas.


So, you are employed full time at Iceland??
Well done to you!:clap2:
Would you say pay and conditions are similar to the UK?

And do you know Monkey Hangers (OK, that's just being nosey, but I thought I'd ask!)


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## Monkey Hangers

Pesky Wesky said:


> So, you are employed full time at Iceland??
> Well done to you!:clap2:
> Would you say pay and conditions are similar to the UK?
> 
> And do you know Monkey Hangers (OK, that's just being nosey, but I thought I'd ask!)


I wouldn't like to say anything about pay and conditions as I hadn't worked in the UK for six years, I was self employed in the US. If maz is who I think she is, yes she knows me


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## jojo

Monkey Hangers said:


> I wouldn't like to quote on pay and conditions, if maz is who I think she is, then yes she knows me


I can quiote what I know, cos I'm not there LOL! I applied for a job at the Iceland in Fuengirola, if memory serves it was 99€ a week for full time (4 days a week???) - with a contract!!!!

Jo xxx


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## Pesky Wesky

jojo said:


> I can quiote what I know, cos I'm not there LOL! I applied for a job at the Iceland in Fuengirola, if memory serves it was 99€ a week for full time (4 days a week???) - with a contract!!!!
> 
> Jo xxx


I wasn't actually being as indiscreet as to ask for actual amounts!! 
I just wondered if it was comparable to the UK???

PS How can full time be 4 days a week?


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## jojo

Pesky Wesky said:


> I wasn't actually being as indiscreet as to ask for actual amounts!!
> I just wondered if it was comparable to the UK???
> 
> PS How can full time be 4 days a week?


 It depends on the amount of hours. The pay is less than Iceland the UK 

Jo xxx


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## mrypg9

There is a headlined piece in the Daily Mail about Spain's Ghost Towns.....it tells it like it is about the situation here.


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## bob_bob

Should post a sticky link to that.


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## tazster

mrypg9 said:


> There is a headlined piece in the Daily Mail about Spain's Ghost Towns.....it tells it like it is about the situation here.


think this is the article 

Spain haunted by ghost towns built during boom years as unemployment tops 5million | Mail Online


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## Leper

This forum was in a vampire state for months and months i.e. half alive - half dead. Suddenly, there is a glut of people wanting to move to Spain and think that a job will be picked up shortly after touchdown at the airport. Many ask for advice but not as many heed it. They are chasing the dream and believe success is just around the corner.

Lately, I have never seen a day go by that I have not heard of somebody jumping ship and returning from whence they came. This is the reality of ex pats on the costas at the moment and will be for some time to come. Still the rush is on and every day some hairdresser, beautician, plasterer, brickie, chippy, painter, go-for, etc arrives and is going to change Spain for the better. Very few are listening to advice of people who know Spain and how it works or does not work as the case may be. 

Some people have a Plan B ie. when all else fails they think they will survive doing unofficial airport runs or that every bar/restaurant is waiting to discover them. The reality is that I have a greater chance of winning the Miss Venezuela Pageant than they have of getting a decent job and I'm male and the wrong side of sixty.


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## jojo

Leper said:


> This forum was in a vampire state for months and months i.e. half alive - half dead. Suddenly, there is a glut of people wanting to move to Spain and think that a job will be picked up shortly after touchdown at the airport. Many ask for advice but not as many heed it. They are chasing the dream and believe success is just around the corner.
> 
> Lately, I have never seen a day go by that I have not heard of somebody jumping ship and returning from whence they came. This is the reality of ex pats on the costas at the moment and will be for some time to come. Still the rush is on and every day some hairdresser, beautician, plasterer, brickie, chippy, painter, go-for, etc arrives and is going to change Spain for the better. Very few are listening to advice of people who know Spain and how it works or does not work as the case may be.
> 
> Some people have a Plan B ie. when all else fails they think they will survive doing unofficial airport runs or that every bar/restaurant is waiting to discover them. The reality is that I have a greater chance of winning the Miss Venezuela Pageant than they have of getting a decent job and I'm male and the wrong side of sixty.



I often wonder why people think that Spain is the answer?? Why not Germany or France?? they're supposed to be relatively stable???

I guess its that wonderful summer holiday, the sunshine, the idea that everything is easy in Spain. the British news doesnt really mention spain and its problems very much. At the moment they're concentrating on Greece.

Spain isnt a British colony, it is Spain and it is a harsh country, its not easy and the winters are cold - the houses are cold, there is little in the way of insulation or heating and when it rains it floods. If things go wrong in Spain, there is no social housing available, no benefits, no child allowance and no nanny state. I have to say that prior to moving to Spain I was very disillusioned with the UK and thought Spain would be the answer. Well yes I loved it there, but my husband commuted and so we didnt have to worry about work. However, my children had to come back to the UK for their education and ultimately work. So we came back and I do now see that, for all the faults of the UK, it is a safe place to be. 



jo xxx


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## Pesky Wesky

Leper said:


> Suddenly, there is a glut of people wanting to move to Spain and think that a job will be picked up shortly after touchdown at the airport. Many ask for advice but not as many heed it. They are chasing the dream and believe success is just around the corner.


Well fear not! The Daily Mail has picked up the story so perhaps it'll make breaking news in the UK and the islands will be informed!


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## xabiaxica

tazster said:


> think this is the article
> 
> Spain haunted by ghost towns built during boom years as unemployment tops 5million | Mail Online


thanks for the link - I'm adding it to the 'economic situation' sticky


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## mrypg9

Pesky Wesky said:


> Well fear not! The Daily Mail has picked up the story so perhaps it'll make breaking news in the UK and the islands will be informed!


Maybe people will believe what we're telling them now the Maul has picked it up - not for the first time, mind you.
After all, we only live here. What do we know?


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## Pesky Wesky

mrypg9 said:


> Maybe people will believe what we're telling them now the Maul has picked it up - not for the first time, mind you.
> After all, we only live here. What do we know?


Exactly.


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## thrax

Whilst I am not a fully qualified teacher I was on a private schools lecture circuit teaching cosmology, astronomy and quantum physics. When we moved to Spain I came with a pension (early retirement), my wife was made redundant so we had some money and both our parents now live here so we also have some financial security from them should we ever need it. We came over with a novel business idea which we had researched thoroughly, although, because of the demands of a young boy, we haven't progressed with it yet, but we will. We have made some good friends here, Spanish, German and English and through one of them I suddenly discovered my abilities as an English teacher (I mainly teach Spanish kids but also some English kids who are struggling with their mother tongue). I work Mondays to Thursday and earn enough to pay the rent. We live very comfortably on the pension. There are far more parents asking for me to teach their kids than I can pòssibly cope with so my friend has suggested we set up a proper English school. There are already plenty of them here but most are appalling and none employ native speakers, the result being that the kids who go there speak English but pronunciation follows Spanish rules. Wife is weefay etc. So at the moment we are doing all right. There seems to be plenty of work out there if I want it. I earn between 20 and 40 euros an hour. Some of the work is official in that I am employed by state run industries and other work is in the black economy. I make no apology for it, it's what the parents insist on. Sometimes the work is very difficult especially lesson planning and oftentimes it is very rewarding. I started this work in June last year.


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## robinjgraham

Myself and my other half moved here just over a year ago. She works in Gibraltar so the Spanish employment situation doesn't apply, and we chose not to live on the Costa because we were eager to experience Spain and learn the language (still working on that!).

I understand that a lot of the negative comments are well-intentioned attempts to warn people about the recession, and I have no idea what it's like to be an expat bricky, carpenter, plumber etc on the costas. They are kind of their own world and economy and I wouldn't pretend to know.

But I have to say that for TEFL or ESL teachers in Cadiz province and in normal Spanish towns away from the costa things are not too bad. In fact there is a point of view that when things are tight it makes parents even more aware of the value of having their children learn English.

It isn't all doom and gloom.


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## Pesky Wesky

robinjgraham said:


> Myself and my other half moved here just over a year ago. She works in Gibraltar so the Spanish employment situation doesn't apply, and we chose not to live on the Costa because we were eager to experience Spain and learn the language (still working on that!).
> 
> I understand that a lot of the negative comments are well-intentioned attempts to warn people about the recession, and I have no idea what it's like to be an expat bricky, carpenter, plumber etc on the costas. They are kind of their own world and economy and I wouldn't pretend to know.
> 
> But I have to say that for TEFL or ESL teachers in Cadiz province and in normal Spanish towns away from the costa things are not too bad. In fact there is a point of view that when things are tight it makes parents even more aware of the value of having their children learn English.
> 
> It isn't all doom and gloom.


I agree, it isn't all doom and gloom, which is why I opened the thread. Somebody, somewhere has got to find work I suppose.
I do, however see people being quite unrealistic as to what their prospects are in Spain (95% of the time that means south, coastal Spain), what they can expect in terms of work, salary, job opportunities, and most of the time with poor Spanish skills.
For the moment there will always be some English teaching work available. Give it 5 years and the demand will probably be for Chinese and German. But, as a long time English teacher myself I can say you'll have to have a pretty jammy job or be working a huge amount of hours spread out over the day to be able support a family on the salary. If you have experience, company classes and you'll work early morning, lunch time and evenings therefore chopping up the day considerably you may be able to get enough money for the family. Salaries in the south of Spain for teaching are pretty low in general. BTW, I'm talking about someone who aspires to have medical coverage and a pension one day; someone who pays their taxes.
If you're single, you'll probably make enough.
It's certainly true that when there's a crisis in sight people will try to make sure that they reactivate their English and will shell out for extra classes for their kids too.

I'm not trying to make negative comments for the sake of it. I'm trying to help people see what living in Spain in 2012 means because from the queries we get on here it obvious that a lot of people do not know.


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## jojo

I'm gonna say it! To make it in Spain you have to have a brain!!! Its no good coming over thinking that you can pick up "any job" and live happily ever after and blindly leave the UK closing doors behind you! Those who have made it recently prove that

You need to have confidence, be innovative and have the intelligence to turn your hand to something such as teaching english, you need some financial buffer, be it adequate savings, a private income and above all, you need to plan and be informed as to the situation. It isnt easy! Also having children doesnt make it easy - educational issues? childcare? school holidays? school fees?? So its not something that is really a good idea if you have a family and commitments

Jo xxx


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## Pesky Wesky

jojo said:


> I'm gonna say it! To make it in Spain you have to have a brain!!!


Exactly.

Please read carefully and memorise this message


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## Leper

It is difficult to be positive in a negative situation. I know Brits in Spain who will inform anybody that the employment situation is not as bad as it may sound. These are usually people who have property to rent and any renter will do on the premise that a half rented apartment is better than a non rented apartment. They have a way of reframing everything to hide the real truth. I rent out our apartment but I inform people of the truth. When the trapdoor opens then nobody can blame Good Ol' Leper.

Obviously, there are exceptions e.g. if there is not an English speaking dentist nearby it is likely that an new English speaking dentist will prosper. I mentioned hairdressers, beauticians etc because it is people in those occupations tend to follow the Sun. If they do get work they experience tips at a fraction of the amount they would get in the UK. I didnt mention basic pay as it is lower also, a lot lower.


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## mrypg9

robinjgraham said:


> Myself and my other half moved here just over a year ago. She works in Gibraltar so the Spanish employment situation doesn't apply, and we chose not to live on the Costa because we were eager to experience Spain and learn the language (still working on that!).
> 
> I understand that a lot of the negative comments are well-intentioned attempts to warn people about the recession, and I have no idea what it's like to be an expat bricky, carpenter, plumber etc on the costas. They are kind of their own world and economy and I wouldn't pretend to know.
> 
> But I have to say that for TEFL or ESL teachers in Cadiz province and in normal Spanish towns away from the costa things are not too bad. In fact there is a point of view that when things are tight it makes parents even more aware of the value of having their children learn English.
> 
> It isn't all doom and gloom.




I know we've thrashed this out before....but could you tell me exactly when the Costas were detached from Spain? Have they become independent statelets??
Could you tell us which Spanish towns you regard as 'abnormal'?
Spanish friends I've mentioned your post to are perplexed and slightly worried.
They find themselves speaking Spanish, even though they live in Estepona, San Pedro, Marbella or even Mijas..
They are also wondering what country they are living in since you say it cannot be Spain.

Oh...I see. I explained to them that you've only been here a short time. They understand that you may not know your way about yet. They ask me though: is Blackpool not a British town? 
Is Folkestone not in England? Do they not speak English in Bournemouth?
They wonder why so many British immigrants have such odd ideas about Spain......and are slightly peeved that you don't understand that although of course it's not ALL gloom and doom here over one in three of them have no job, half of the young people have no jobs and for them life is very gloomy with not many rays of light to illuminate it.


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## robinjgraham

mrypg9 said:


> I know we've thrashed this out before....but could you tell me exactly when the Costas were detached from Spain? Have they become independent statelets??
> Could you tell us which Spanish towns you regard as 'abnormal'?
> Spanish friends I've mentioned your post to are perplexed and slightly worried.
> They find themselves speaking Spanish, even though they live in Estepona, San Pedro, Marbella or even Mijas..
> They are also wondering what country they are living in since you say it cannot be Spain.
> 
> Oh...I see. You've only been here a short time. They understand that you may not know your way about yet. They ask me though: is Blackpool not a British town?
> Is Folkestone not in England? Do they not speak English in Bournemouth?
> They wonder why so many British immigrants have such odd ideas about Spain...


Very, very defensive reply. There is absolutely nothing in my post which was disparaging about the Costas or the Spanish or foreign people who live there - just the self-evident truth that they are indeed distinct from many other parts of Spain in terms of demographics. There had been a huge influx into these area and to suggest that this has not changed them is not sensible. The frequency with which one will be spoken to in English on the Costa del Sol, for example, even when one has initiated the converstaion in an attempt at Spanish, is a very different to the frequency with which this will happen parts of the country less visited by tourists and expats. Our concern about immersing ourself in the language is therefore perfectly legitimate and insults no one.

Except you, apparently.


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## Solwriter

When we first moved to Spain, and after a few financial mishaps, we realised that living here was going to be hard, I looked for a number of 'work opportunities' to help us out.
And I'll admit, these were in the black economy, simply because combined they did not pay enough for me to make regular autonomo payments.

When I first discovered, about a year in, that I could make money with online work (website design, SEO advice, copy writing, affiliate sales, etc), I also worked in the black for a short while, until I could guarantee a regular income.
I was lucky in that I'm a fast learner, because I was always aware that I should be paying into the system and breathed a sigh of relief when I was able to.
But I still supplement that income with working several months a year in the UK. Just to make sure I have enough money to pay the bills (and because nowadays I cannot rely on our internet :frusty.

Teaching English - we do that here free of charge, and learn Spanish and make friends in return. But I guess that in the right area, we could make a profit at this.
But here, nowadays, people are willing to exchange, but not to pay for learning English.
It very much depends on where you are situated.


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## jojo

robinjgraham said:


> Very, very defensive reply. There is absolutely nothing in my post which was disparaging about the Costas or the Spanish or foreign people who live there - just the self-evident truth that they are indeed distinct from many other parts of Spain in terms of demographics. There had been a huge influx into these area and to suggest that this has not changed them is not sensible. The frequency with which one will be spoken to in English on the Costa del Sol, for example, even when one has initiated the converstaion in an attempt at Spanish, is a very different to the frequency with which this will happen parts of the country less visited by tourists and expats. Our concern about immersing ourself in the language is therefore perfectly legitimate and insults no one.
> 
> Except you, apparently.



I have to agree with mrpg9 on this. I've lived and visited many Spanish towns, both on the costas and in land. They're all pretty much the same - cosmopolitan towns. The only thing that has changed them is that the Spanish are now european and have the same wants and wishes as other europeans. In fact I'd go as far as to say that the "typical" Spanish towns and villages I have been to are full of tourists, tourist paraphernalia and expats!! 

Jo xxx


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## Alcalaina

jojo said:


> I have to agree with mrpg9 on this. I've lived and visited many Spanish towns, both on the costas and in land. They're all pretty much the same - cosmopolitan towns. The only thing that has changed them is that the Spanish are now european and have the same wants and wishes as other europeans. In fact I'd go as far as to say that the "typical" Spanish towns and villages I have been to are full of tourists, tourist paraphernalia and expats!!
> 
> Jo xxx


Well, Tarifa is a cosmopolitan tourist town but it is very different from Fuenguirola. Alcalá where I live isn't a tourist town and is very different from either of those.

Can't we just celebrate the fact that Spain has something to offer everyone, whatever one's tastes and preferences?


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## robinjgraham

Alcalaina said:


> Well, Tarifa is a cosmopolitan tourist town but it is very different from Fuenguirola. Alcalá where I live isn't a tourist town and is very different from either of those.
> 
> Can't we just celebrate the fact that Spain has something to offer everyone, whatever one's tastes and preferences?


The voice of reason. I was beginning to feel under attack. A couple of hours after returning to this forum and I have attracted an infraction for posting one entirely non commercial link and for being accused of "surveying" forum members when I attempted to start a thread about bars and restaurants, and then this barrage of defensiveness when I had the audacity to express a preference over what kind of place I would like to live in.

Quite a reception. I think I'll leave it there for the time being. I'll make sure to stop by your blog Alcalaina


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## Pesky Wesky

robinjgraham said:


> The voice of reason. I was beginning to feel under attack. A couple of hours after returning to this forum and I have attracted an infraction for posting one entirely non commercial link and for being accused of "surveying" forum members when I attempted to start a thread about bars and restaurants, and then this barrage of defensiveness when I had the audacity to express a preference over what kind of place I would like to live in.
> 
> Quite a reception. I think I'll leave it there for the time being. I'll make sure to stop by your blog Alcalaina


It's a shame you felt under attack. Some people express their opinions more forcebly than others and it looks like you ran into a couple of rules.
However, you did make a remark about not wanting to be on the Costas and wanting to be in Spain...
What follows is not directed at you personally.

It seems there are still a fair few people who think that Spain is like X and Spain isn't like Y. Parts of Spain are warm year round, parts get snow, parts are _*4 hours*_ from the beach and parts have the beach on the doorstep. There are parts that are desert and parts that are like the green hills of Wales. There are parts that have huge immigrant populations, but are those populations Brits, Germans, Scandinavians, Moroccons or Somalians?
It's a huge, diverse country and _*all*_ of it, although the native population might disagree, although there are more immigrants than Spaniards, is part of
*Spain* 

BUT
The topic of this thread is immigrants and work, so
:focus:


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## anles

When a pointed out a few days ago about the reception new member were getting many of the regular posters put it down to new posters taking umbrage because they weren't hearing what they wanted to hear. I disagree because it is not about what is being said, but how it is being said. I have seen several posters say recently they are leaving because of the response from posters here and others have just stopped posting. Now it's not just wannabes but people who actually live here and could become valuable contributors. As I said before, I don't think this forum is doing itself any favours unless it aims to become an exclusive club for a few posters who can do no wrong.


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## mrypg9

robinjgraham said:


> Very, very defensive reply. There is absolutely nothing in my post which was disparaging about the Costas or the Spanish or foreign people who live there - just the self-evident truth that they are indeed distinct from many other parts of Spain in terms of demographics. There had been a huge influx into these area and to suggest that this has not changed them is not sensible. The frequency with which one will be spoken to in English on the Costa del Sol, for example, even when one has initiated the converstaion in an attempt at Spanish, is a very different to the frequency with which this will happen parts of the country less visited by tourists and expats. Our concern about immersing ourself in the language is therefore perfectly legitimate and insults no one.
> 
> Except you, apparently.



Not just me, as seen from other responses. I am, frankly, sick of reading posts from people who imagine 'their' Spain is somehow more 'Spanish' than parts where there is a high proportion of immigrants. 
It's insulting to Spanish people. They are quite capable of retaining their own culture, you know.
As has been said, Spain is a country of infinite contrast. The village I live in is small and in winter has few foreign residents aming its 1800 population. There are probably more resident Brits where you live.
When you have travelled around you will understand that Spain is a country of contrasts....regional to name perhaps the most significant, but as in any other country: differences between town and country, coast and inland.
If 'one initiates a conversation in Spanish' in my village, 'one' will be replied to in Spanish. One could immerse oneself in Spanish very easily here - in fact one would experience considerable difficulties in the conduct of one's every-day life if one did not speak Spanish at more than a basic level.
It seems you do not appreciate the diversity to be found along the Costa Del Sol....San Pedro is very different from Mijas. Marbella is very different from Estepona.
The longer you live in Spain the more you will perhaps come to realise that there are very many Spains, just as there are very many Englands, Americas, Frances.
Thankfully homogeneity is not the rule.


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## mrypg9

anles said:


> When a pointed out a few days ago about the reception new member were getting many of the regular posters put it down to new posters taking umbrage because they weren't hearing what they wanted to hear. I disagree because it is not about what is being said, but how it is being said. I have seen several posters say recently they are leaving because of the response from posters here and others have just stopped posting. Now it's not just wannabes but people who actually live here and could become valuable contributors. As I said before, I don't think this forum is doing itself any favours unless it aims to become an exclusive club for a few posters who can do no wrong.


The reason this forum is so successful is that it is neither bland nor full of downright insulting invective, unlike other forums, one or two of which have closed down through lack of interest.
When people post opinions or comments I disagree with I shall say so. They are free to reply in kind.
Some people post informative, interesting stuff which is thought-provoking. Some people post illiterate uninformed drivel. 
The mixture works.
And frankly, if people post something I find insulting, patronising, or downright stupid, I will say so in terms which the moderators accept as reasonable.
I expect to receive the same treatment. Words don't hurt me or most other sensible people.
Are we all so tender sensitive souls that we take offence when our opinions, whether daft or sound, are criticised? Do we really want a sanitised, lets-all-agree-incase-someone-takes-offence forum?
I have been called a a***Hole and told to f*** off by an Australian 'gentleman' - the Mods missed that.
I am not such a shrinking violet that I had to sit in a darkened room with sal volatile to get over it.


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## mrypg9

Alcalaina said:


> Well, Tarifa is a cosmopolitan tourist town but it is very different from Fuenguirola. Alcalá where I live isn't a tourist town and is very different from either of those.
> 
> Can't we just celebrate the fact that Spain has something to offer everyone, whatever one's tastes and preferences?


Out of interest and maybe a new topic: what exactly is a tourist town?
Don't you get any tourists in Alcala? From the little Ive 'seen of it passing through it's very pretty.
I guess I was a tourist there...


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## Alcalaina

mrypg9 said:


> Out of interest and maybe a new topic: what exactly is a tourist town?
> Don't you get any tourists in Alcala? From the little Ive 'seen of it passing through it's very pretty.
> I guess I was a tourist there...


I would define a tourist town as a place whose economy depends largely on tourism, where there are shops, bars and restaurants specifically catering for visitors. 

Alcalá is pretty from a distance, nestling like a pile of white sugar-lumps in the mountains. I don't know how many people make the detour off the A381 to take a closer look. The main reason people come here is to shoot the wildlife in the Parque Natural. We get a few birdwatchers during the migration periods, and cyclists and bikers who stop over at the _hostal_ on their way up to the Sierras. 

We used to have a tourist information office but it closed a few years ago. There's a sanctuary a few miles away which attracts a lot of visitors for the romería in September, but that's about it.

The council have started a "tourism committee", or rather a sort of focus group, which I am on because I run an English language blog about the town. After six months they have finally agreed to put up some signs pointing to the castle and the church.


----------



## anles

Pesky Wesky said:


> It's a shame you felt under attack. Some people express their opinions more forcebly than others and it looks like you ran into a couple of rules.
> However, you did make a remark about not wanting to be on the Costas and wanting to be in Spain...
> What follows is not directed at you personally.
> 
> It seems there are still a fair few people who think that Spain is like X and Spain isn't like Y. Parts of Spain are warm year round, parts get snow, parts are _*4 hours*_ from the beach and parts have the beach on the doorstep. There are parts that are desert and parts that are like the green hills of Wales. There are parts that have huge immigrant populations, but are those populations Brits, Germans, Scandinavians, Moroccons or Somalians?
> It's a huge, diverse country and _*all*_ of it, although the native population might disagree, although there are more immigrants than Spaniards, is part of
> *Spain*
> 
> BUT
> The topic of this thread is immigrants and work, so
> :focus:


As you say, there are people who think that if you go to the shops, doctor's, chemist's, etc. and can get by with English alone it's a less Spanish environment than in a village where no one speaks English. The perception that certain areas are Little Britain, Little Germany, etc. but that is as valid a description a the one whereby someone insists it's equally Spanish or equally Spain. In fact, I doubt many Spaniards are worried by this as it's their concept, too. The same as nationalists who say Cataluña is not Spain; it's an opinion I don't agree with, but it's their opinion. I have never lived in an area where you could get by in any other language than Spanish, but I must admit when I first met someone from somewhere in Alicante who had lived there for nine years and could speak no Spanish I was not only shocked but a little disgusted! Now, I am much more tolerant. I realise that I am not the only one who has all the answers and that my way may not be the only way and in fact, I may be a little mistaken in some of the answers. However, I do think that it's their loss because interaction with the people around you is one of the most important and enjoyable aspects of every day life. I have now become part of an exchange group where people get together to practise Spanish and English, and now French, which is a huge success because people are free to do as they wish, some just come for the social event and some get huge satisfaction from practising a new language but every person's input is equally valid


----------



## owdoggy

Everyone is banging on about “change” with the influx of immigrants but exactly how much has changed? Yes, there’s different languages spoken but that’s about it as far as I can see.

Here, there’s definitely “more” of things because of more money being in the local economy but the farmers still farm, the hunters still hunt, the goatherds still wander past, the thieves still steal (may they rot in hell) and bar owners, although finding it hard in these difficult times, are still there but actual change? ……. I’m not so sure.

Oh aye …… I’ve just remembered what the topic was about so just to have you all lining up to have a pop at me (as if you would) I can say that I’ve been offered (quite a lot of) work here and turned it down…… soy jubilado y feliz.

And no, we’re not rich, indeed we’re having to be a bit careful at the moment but to us happiness is everything ……if you ain’t got happiness you ain’t got nowt.


Doggy


----------



## anles

mrypg9 said:


> The reason this forum is so successful is that it is neither bland nor full of downright insulting invective, unlike other forums, one or two of which have closed down through lack of interest.
> When people post opinions or comments I disagree with I shall say so. They are free to reply in kind.
> Some people post informative, interesting stuff which is thought-provoking. Some people post illiterate uninformed drivel.
> The mixture works.
> And frankly, if people post something I find insulting, patronising, or downright stupid, I will say so in terms which the moderators accept as reasonable.
> I expect to receive the same treatment. Words don't hurt me or most other sensible people.
> Are we all so tender sensitive souls that we take offence when our opinions, whether daft or sound, are criticised? Do we really want a sanitised, lets-all-agree-incase-someone-takes-offence forum?
> I have been called a a***Hole and told to f*** off by an Australian 'gentleman' - the Mods missed that.
> I am not such a shrinking violet that I had to sit in a darkened room with sal volatile to get over it.


I suppose where we differ is in our concept of _successful_. For me, a successful forum is one where people who join, wish to stay. And I believe words can be very harmful, which is why there are laws against libel, slander, mental cruelty, etc. In most cases, if I consider a post is illiterate, uninformed drivel or just downright stupid, I just ignore it as it's not worth my time to reply, but maybe I will make an exception as neither am I a shrinking violet. Your previous post was quite revealing as to how much this "real Spain" affects you but you should just take this as it is, a bit of fun to relieve the boredom. Not only have you felt the need to discuss the _problem_ with your Spanish friends (I'm quite sure mine would have no interest in what a bunch of foreigners think is real Spain) but you have had time to consult in Mijas, San Pedro, Estepona and Marbella! And that from someone who has admitted to having limited Spanish, I'm impressed. I'm sorry that this has caused them concern, I would have thought that the fact that one in three have no job and half the youths don't either would have made this matter seem quite irrelevant. They should look at it more light-heartedly, a bit like the post in a previous thread called "you know you have lived in Spain when..." Seeing things through other people's eyes can be enlightening but it can just be plain amusing. I am also very impressed at their knowledge of Britain. Sadly, I left the UK when I was 7 and two of my big sorrows are I can't recognise British accents like I can Spanish and Latin American accents and that I only know Wolverhampton, and that I would probably not recognise today. I can pintpoint on a map large cities and I have heard of Blackpool as I remember my uncle bringing me some rock from there and I had heard of Bournemouth but not Folkstone, which they not only know but can even identify them either as tourist areas or places with large immigrant population. Me quito el sombrero ante ellos.


----------



## Pesky Wesky

anles said:


> As you say, there are people who think that if you go to the shops, doctor's, chemist's, etc. and can get by with English alone it's a less Spanish environment than in a village where no one speaks English. The perception that certain areas are Little Britain, Little Germany, etc. but that is as valid a description a the one whereby someone insists it's equally Spanish or equally Spain. In fact, I doubt many Spaniards are worried by this as it's their concept, too. The same as nationalists who say Cataluña is not Spain; it's an opinion I don't agree with, but it's their opinion. I have never lived in an area where you could get by in any other language than Spanish, but I must admit when I first met someone from somewhere in Alicante who had lived there for nine years and could speak no Spanish I was not only shocked but a little disgusted! Now, I am much more tolerant. I realise that I am not the only one who has all the answers and that my way may not be the only way and in fact, I may be a little mistaken in some of the answers. However, I do think that it's their loss because interaction with the people around you is one of the most important and enjoyable aspects of every day life. I have now become part of an exchange group where people get together to practise Spanish and English, and now French, which is a huge success because people are free to do as they wish, some just come for the social event and some get huge satisfaction from practising a new language but every person's input is equally valid


Yes, as you say there are parts that are like little Britain/ Germany etc, just as there are parts of Birmingham or London or Manchester etc (that you wouldn't have seen as you left a while ago) that are completely given over to the Indians or immigrants from Bangledesh or Pakistan - the people that you see, the shops - everything except the red brick buildings.

I too used to think it was terrible that people who came to Spain wanted to live in places like I've described above. These people who are not interested in learning the language, only interested in living a British life in the sun. Hopefully I've become more tolerant, thanks in great measure to this forum. I still have some reservations however.

You say that _In fact, I doubt many Spaniards are worried by this as it's their concept, too_ by which I think you mean the Spaniards don't mind calling Little Britain areas Spain? I'm not so sure of that. If they're making money out of someone they probably don't care. As soon as they perceive the job market changing and the crisis closing in, immigrants become scapegoats. It happens everywhere in the world.

Might as well take this thread completely off course and ask you what has prompted you to get more involved with English again?


----------



## Pesky Wesky

anles said:


> I suppose where we differ is in our concept of _successful_. For me, a successful forum is one where people who join, wish to stay. And I believe words can be very harmful, which is why there are laws against libel, slander, mental cruelty, etc. In most cases, if I consider a post is illiterate, uninformed drivel or just downright stupid, I just ignore it as it's not worth my time to reply, but maybe I will make an exception as neither am I a shrinking violet. Your previous post was quite revealing as to how much this "real Spain" affects you but you should just take this as it is, a bit of fun to relieve the boredom. Not only have you felt the need to discuss the _problem_ with your Spanish friends (I'm quite sure mine would have no interest in what a bunch of foreigners think is real Spain) but you have had time to consult in Mijas, San Pedro, Estepona and Marbella! And that from someone who has admitted to having limited Spanish, I'm impressed. I'm sorry that this has caused them concern, I would have thought that the fact that one in three have no job and half the youths don't either would have made this matter seem quite irrelevant. They should look at it more light-heartedly, a bit like the post in a previous thread called "you know you have lived in Spain when..." Seeing things through other people's eyes can be enlightening but it can just be plain amusing. I am also very impressed at their knowledge of Britain. Sadly, I left the UK when I was 7 and two of my big sorrows are I can't recognise British accents like I can Spanish and Latin American accents and that I only know Wolverhampton, and that I would probably not recognise today. I can pintpoint on a map large cities and I have heard of Blackpool as I remember my uncle bringing me some rock from there and I had heard of Bournemouth but not Folkstone, which they not only know but can even identify them either as tourist areas or places with large immigrant population. Me quito el sombrero ante ellos.


I think a successful forum is one where people feel they can contribute, exchange thoughts, listen and be listened too. Of course it's better if new people stay and join the group, but sometimes people are not suited to forum life in as much as they can't follow the etiquette for what ever reason (they are rude or they want free advertising for example) or they want something that is not provided like people telling them there's always good weather in Spain or they are just not in the right place.

I do agree with you though that words are harmful, and in some ways the written word more than the spoken. I do think Mary's post was harsh. I also know that the Real Spain issue is important to her, which neither you nor robinjgraham knew, and neither should you.

Finally, I think what image foreigners have of Spain is interesting to the Spanish. Why wouldn't it be? Especially in these times when we need people to come and visit Spain and speak well of the country. A good look at yourself through the eyes of others "can be very enlightening"


----------



## Pesky Wesky

owdoggy said:


> Everyone is banging on about “change” with the influx of immigrants but exactly how much has changed? Yes, there’s different languages spoken but that’s about it as far as I can see.
> 
> Here, there’s definitely “more” of things because of more money being in the local economy but the farmers still farm, the hunters still hunt, the goatherds still wander past, the thieves still steal (may they rot in hell) and bar owners, although finding it hard in these difficult times, are still there but actual change? ……. I’m not so sure.
> 
> Oh aye …… I’ve just remembered what the topic was about so just to have you all lining up to have a pop at me (as if you would) I can say that I’ve been offered (quite a lot of) work here and turned it down…… soy jubilado y feliz.
> 
> And no, we’re not rich, indeed we’re having to be a bit careful at the moment but to us happiness is everything ……if you ain’t got happiness you ain’t got nowt.
> 
> 
> Doggy


I think we can only talk about the areas we know, but there are areas in Spain that have been completely changed due to foreign immigration because of the sheer volume of building that's gone on to accomodate all those Brits who want to live in the sun. In some places along the coast people can't, for example, hunt anymore 'cos rabbits can't do a lot of burrowing under concrete. 
In other areas there are thousands of muslim immigrants. They are usually happy to occupy existing buildings, but their influence is felt in other ways - dress, food shops, (not) participation in local festivals.


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## brocher

:focus::focus:

My daughter came to Spain last year, *only* because she was offered a good job, in her field, salary similar to UK for her age and experience. 

At the end of her studies and training, ready for a "new adventure" - no ties, nothing to lose if it hadn't worked out.


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## bob_bob

In the past we had the likes of Bob Hope, Jonny Cash, Steve Jobs, now they are all gone, no Hope, no Cash and no Jobs


----------



## anles

Pesky Wesky said:


> Yes, as you say there are parts that are like little Britain/ Germany etc, just as there are parts of Birmingham or London or Manchester etc (that you wouldn't have seen as you left a while ago) that are completely given over to the Indians or immigrants from Bangledesh or Pakistan - the people that you see, the shops - everything except the red brick buildings.
> 
> I too used to think it was terrible that people who came to Spain wanted to live in places like I've described above. These people who are not interested in learning the language, only interested in living a British life in the sun. Hopefully I've become more tolerant, thanks in great measure to this forum. I still have some reservations however.
> 
> You say that _In fact, I doubt many Spaniards are worried by this as it's their concept, too_ by which I think you mean the Spaniards don't mind calling Little Britain areas Spain? I'm not so sure of that. If they're making money out of someone they probably don't care. As soon as they perceive the job market changing and the crisis closing in, immigrants become scapegoats. It happens everywhere in the world.
> 
> Might as well take this thread completely off course and ask you what has prompted you to get more involved with English again?


Maybe my opinion on that has been coloured by the area where I have lived most of my life: Galicia. Although I did live for three years in what was then an unknown village in Burgos which has lately become famous due to its unusual names. In fact, much as I loved living there this oddity was paramount in my wishing to leave before my daughter was born!! Everyone was quite excited by her impending arrival and they were determined she be named Olimpia as she was born in 1992 and her dad was being posted to Salou during the Olympic Games. Gallegos have emigrated everywhere, even to the moon... and wherever they have been in any they have created associations and kept up their culture, in effect creating a Galicia Pequena in many parts. The first time I heard the term little England was from a Spaniard who was very amused by it. 
In essence my life has been Spanish, or Galician, although I still felt proud to be English, not the correct term either as I'm British, half English, half Welsh, but I feel English in many aspects. People like myself can grow up with identity issues  my British friends consider me Spanish as do friends I have of other nationalities, but for most of the people who have known me since I was a child, I'm "La inglesa" except for my closest friends who just accept me as myself and don't think about nationalities. When I started to work in my last job, I met people from many places, but mostly Brits, and I have made some wonderful English speaking friends. I learnt many things about the UK, some that I had been more or less aware of but couldn't believe and I have learned to appreciate my life here more. But on the other hand I have also discovered new things made in UK which I think are wonderful and rediscovered others. Now my children are older I have more time. I have always thought being part of a community and society is vital, but I have found new ways. I run a second hand market every second Sunday of the month which is a local adaptation of Car Boot Sales and I help run the intercambio group because I have found out that there are things I can share which are greatly enjoyed without it being detrimental to the local traditions and culture.


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## Pesky Wesky

brocher said:


> :focus::focus:
> 
> My daughter came to Spain last year, *only* because she was offered a good job, in her field, salary similar to UK for her age and experience.
> 
> At the end of her studies and training, ready for a "new adventure" - no ties, nothing to lose if it hadn't worked out.


Sounds like she was using that thing Jo was talking about, what was it again? Oh yeah, Her Brain!


----------



## brocher

Pesky Wesky said:


> Sounds like she was using that thing Jo was talking about, what was it again? Oh yeah, Her Brain!


Don't think she's got one of them things!!


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## Pesky Wesky

anles said:


> In essence my life has been Spanish, or Galician, although I still felt proud to be English, not the correct term either as I'm British, half English, half Welsh, but I feel English in many aspects. People like myself can grow up with identity issues  my British friends consider me Spanish as do friends I have of other nationalities, but for most of the people who have known me since I was a child, I'm "La inglesa" except for my closest friends who just accept me as myself and don't think about nationalities.


The concept of intergration has been discussed a fair few times here and I've always said that, although I've been in Spain for 25 years, this town for almost 18, there will always be people who refer to me as La inglesa, I'm sure. But, like you, my friends call me by my name 'cos that's who I am to them - the nationality is not an important element in the relationship.


----------



## jojo

robinjgraham said:


> The voice of reason. I was beginning to feel under attack. A couple of hours after returning to this forum and I have attracted an infraction for posting one entirely non commercial link and for being accused of "surveying" forum members when I attempted to start a thread about bars and restaurants, and then this barrage of defensiveness when I had the audacity to express a preference over what kind of place I would like to live in.
> 
> Quite a reception. I think I'll leave it there for the time being. I'll make sure to stop by your blog Alcalaina


Hey, I wasnt attacking you, I'nm a big softy and wouldnt dare - I'm sorry if it came across like that!!! I think we get a tad protective of the cost del sol cos it is much maligned as some sort of Chavvy British playground, whish it isnt - nowadays its a region in Spain that attracts tourists from all over the world. 

Anyway, take no notice of us and stay with us. Its nice to hear different views and discuss them

Jo xxxx


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## dijiste

I moved here five months ago, though I already had a job as an English teacher in a Spanish Primary school lined up. It pays quite well - just over 2000 a month before tax - though you have to be a qualified teacher. I live in Navarra.

Anyone interested in joining the Bilingual Project could follow this link. Hope this is ok - it's not a commercial enterprise: Teach with Bilingual Schools | Spain.

Oh, and I love my job and my life here in Spain, though it's been absolutely freezing this winter!


----------



## Pesky Wesky

dijiste said:


> I moved here five months ago, though I already had a job as an English teacher in a Spanish Primary school lined up. It pays quite well - just over 2000 a month before tax - though you have to be a qualified teacher. I live in Navarra.
> 
> Anyone interested in joining the Bilingual Project could follow this link. Hope this is ok - it's not a commercial enterprise: Teach with Bilingual Schools | Spain.
> 
> Oh, and I love my job and my life here in Spain, though it's been absolutely freezing this winter!


That *is* quite good pay!!
You're in a lovely part of Spain, although I have to say I haven't actually been to Tudela, but it is a bit colder than many other parts. Hope you get to stay in the summer too. I see you're ideally situated to go to both Barcelona + coast or San Sebastian or Santander coast.


----------



## mazlester

Pesky Wesky said:


> So, you are employed full time at Iceland??
> Well done to you!:clap2:
> Would you say pay and conditions are similar to the UK?
> 
> And do you know Monkey Hangers (OK, that's just being nosey, but I thought I'd ask!)


Hi,

I was taken on Full time but asked to go Part Time as I wanted flexibility so now I work 3 days a week which really suits me. As for pay and conditions being comparable with the UK I really couldn't tell you as I've just retired from the Army after 24 years! So a total change of conditions and pay. I do know that Full time is 40hrs a week over 5 days, various shift timings to fit in with opening hours. I enjoy working there, the people who work there make it enjoyable! 

Yes I do know Monkey Hangers we were taken on at the same time.

Maz


----------



## simonsaysjapan

Is there work in the Marbella area teaching English?


----------



## jojo

simonsaysjapan said:


> Is there work in the Marbella area teaching English?


If you are qualified there maybe a few bits and pieces, but you'll be up against many, many others who will be looking for the same work

Jo xxx


----------



## mrypg9

simonsaysjapan said:


> Is there work in the Marbella area teaching English?


As Jo says, work in the Marbella area of any kind is hard to find. I have a friend who spent time and money on a TEFL course last year, having lost her admin job here...and she is waitressing to supplement her income.
Unemployment in Malaga Province is amongst the highest in Spain - over one in three people are on the register and of course there are many more jobseekers who haven't 'signed on'.
.
Although people often make critical comments about the UK the fact is, as we often point out, that life in Spain is much harder and harsher than in the UK. You will be entitled to free health care only when you have paid into the system and as a EL/TEFL teacher you would presumably be self-employed and therefore have to pay the 'autonomo' tax which I think is around 250 euros a month regardless of your actual earnings which could be less than that.
Sorry to sound gloomy but sugaring the pill just isn't kind when people ask for advice about planning important changes in their lives..


----------



## Pesky Wesky

This was posted by Sarajanexx on another thread



> *Posted by Sarajanexx* My name is Sara I moved to Spain on the 10th of may 2012 even though I had received negative comments from everyone saying i would not find work and i was being stupid.. as i didn't speak much Spanish and there is a recession on... Within three weeks of being here i have managed to turn down two jobs that didn't suit me and have one that i love to bits! Have made loads of new friends and i am really enjoying it. What can i say.. maybe i got lucky. I think if you are hungry for it you will always succeed! I'm not trying to sugar coat it by any means sorting out paper work and finding a job is scary when you are in another country alone. After you grow some balls and get it done its worth it for sure!!
> 
> Ignore any negative comments, If you want it.. go and get it.



I asked Sarajanexx if she could post some info about the job that she managed to get, and this is what she posted, on another thread



> Okay so i moved to spain in may got my nie and padron, but my NIE is only valid for three months... I two jobs pretty quick but dropped one because i hated it.. The place i am working haven't mentioned a contract and nobody on the staff has one but when i spoke to them about their NIE numbers they said they thought they were for life?


So it's a job without a contract and she hasn't got an NIE number either which she'll need for health care in the social security if she wanted to avoid private health care, for example.


----------



## mrypg9

Pesky Wesky said:


> This was posted by Sarajanexx on another thread
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I asked Sarajanexx if she could post some info about the job that she managed to get, and this is what she posted, on another thread
> 
> 
> So it's a job without a contract and she hasn't got an NIE number either which she'll need for health care in the social security if she wanted to avoid private health care, for example.



Says it all, doesn't it....I'm glad you posted that.
Whenever I read posts that tell people to ignore the 'negativity' (aka as 'realism') and just 'Go for it' I wonder how much they know of Spain beyond their computer screen.
If having that kind of insecure, no doubt poorly-paid and almost certainly 'illegal' job is what makes up the 'Spanish dream' for some people, it says quite a lot about the current state of British society.
Strange how some people have this apparent belief that a bit of sunshine is the be-all and end-all....


----------



## jojo

Pesky Wesky said:


> This was posted by Sarajanexx on another thread
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I asked Sarajanexx if she could post some info about the job that she managed to get, and this is what she posted, on another thread
> 
> 
> So it's a job without a contract and she hasn't got an NIE number either which she'll need for health care in the social security if she wanted to avoid private health care, for example.



If Sara is young, free and single then great, altho unless she's autonomo, she's working illegally and will have to pay if she needs to visit a doctor.

To move to Spain properly tho, you need contracted employment, an NIE number and residencia - which you now need to prove income and healthcare arrangements to obtain apparently

Jo xxx


----------



## Pesky Wesky

jojo said:


> If Sara is young, free and single then great, altho unless she's autonomo, she's working illegally and will have to pay if she needs to visit a doctor.
> 
> To move to Spain properly tho, you need contracted employment, an NIE number and residencia - which you now need to prove income and healthcare arrangements to obtain apparently
> 
> Jo xxx


Well, exactly, Sarajane may be very happy with her situation in Spain; in fact I think she is, so that's fine. I just wanted to clear up any confusion over the kind of situation that she is in, because some people might read her posts thinking it's relatively easy to find legal work in Spain, whereas in fact it isn't, and as you and others have pointed out that's not helpful, nor realistic.


----------



## xabiaxica

Pesky Wesky said:


> Well, exactly, Sarajane may be very happy with her situation in Spain; in fact I think she is, so that's fine. I just wanted to clear up any confusion over the kind of situation that she is in, because some people might read her posts thinking it's relatively easy to find legal work in Spain, whereas in fact it isn't, and as you and others have pointed out that's not helpful, nor realistic.


& really the point is, it IS illegal - almost certainly - if the company doesn't do contracts there's pretty much zero chance that they are paying the NI contributions - & who know what else isn't being declared 

& the really sad thing is, that Sarajanexx probably doesn't even realise that she's working illegaly - along with hundreds if not thousands of others 

unless/until she logs in & reads these posts & the reply to he question


----------



## Pesky Wesky

xabiachica said:


> & the really sad thing is, that Sarajanexx probably doesn't even realise that she's working illegaly - along with hundreds if not thousands of others


Do you think people without a contract don't know they're working illegally or they just don't care?

If I was 20 something, with no kids, I probably wouldn't care about it. But when children come into the picture, or other dependants you've just got to be more careful, I think.


----------



## xabiaxica

Pesky Wesky said:


> Do you think people without a contract don't know they're working illegally or they just don't care?
> 
> If I was 20 something, with no kids, I probably wouldn't care about it. But when children come into the picture, or other dependants you've just got to be more careful, I think.


some I'm sure don't care............. but fresh off the plane, from the UK where working on the black isn't so rife - or at least not so 'in your face' ............ then I think there are many who genuinely don't realise

at first, anyway

then if they have been getting away with it for a while...... and they're maybe not planning to stay forever............. it just goes on & on


----------



## mrypg9

I have come to understand why many Spanish people have no moral scruples about working on the black. As someone -PW? -pointed out once, it's a safety valve in times of very high unemployment. If you don't have enough money to feed and care for your family because you have no work, you do what you must. I now accept that. As Brecht aptly said: "Eats first, morals afterwards".
But that doesn't apply to job-seekers from outside Spain.
I've read that the Government is paying for jobless immigrants to return to South America. If other immigrants come here and work, whether on the black or legally, it kind of cancels that out, doesn't it?


----------



## Solwriter

jimenato said:


> Blimey! Imagine the fuss that would ensue if the British government offered to pay immigrants to go back to where they came from!!


I'm actually not going to discuss this (either way) as this thread is about _finding work in Spain_


----------



## xabiaxica

thread drift posts moved to here http://www.expatforum.com/expats/la-tasca/117135-repatriation-other-solutions-unemployment-2.html#post827272

carry on


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## madrid2012

interesting thread, yes - I and several others have found work within a week from graduating our TEFL course. However I did a lot of research before making the move, the school has an excellent reputation and contacts throughout the city. I am working legally. 
The two graduates with british passports got work immediately and have been offered full time contracts starting sept, myself and the american passport holders have been offered fill in hours that keep increasing each week. I do think that an extremely professional attitude goes a long way. I also didn't come here to make money, enough to cover expenses and do a bit of travel is fine by me, it's more about the experience. I also made sure I came with a lot of savings.
Hope that helps someone


----------



## Pesky Wesky

madrid2012 said:


> interesting thread, yes - I and several others have found work within a week from graduating our TEFL course. However I did a lot of research before making the move, the school has an excellent reputation and contacts throughout the city. I am working legally.
> The two graduates with british passports got work immediately and have been offered full time contracts starting sept, myself and the american passport holders have been offered fill in hours that keep increasing each week. I do think that an extremely professional attitude goes a long way. I also didn't come here to make money, enough to cover expenses and do a bit of travel is fine by me, it's more about the experience. I also made sure I came with a lot of savings.
> Hope that helps someone


Glad you have found work. It seems to me that qualified TEFL teachers in Madrid, who don't want to make enough money to support a family, and have no illusions about great working conditions, can probably still do it.
I'm interested to hear how you managed with the visa issues though, especially the Americans. Are you working reduced hours on a student visa by any chance?


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## madrid2012

thanks, yes I made sure I had all my ducks in a row for such a big move! I was also extremely nervous about coming to such a bad economy so had a couple of Plan B's.

Your right, I don't have any dependents. That would make life hard. Frankly sometimes I feel pretty guilty that I can come here and get work when so many are struggling.

The non-eu passport holders can indeed come in on student visas and have up to 20 hours a week to support themselves. the usual thing is to teach english I guess.

there appears to be a lot of unprofessional, unreliable people in the industry so if you have a good work ethic it goes a long way or so it seems. I'm a bit older too with a corporate background, so seem to fit teaching Business English in company.

Even today I had a call about some work and our academy sends out jobs almost daily.
in saying that, yep I won't ever make my millions, but that's not my intention.
Not sure about TEFL in other regions of Spain, interested to hear about that.


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## Pesky Wesky

madrid2012 said:


> thanks, yes I made sure I had all my ducks in a row for such a big move! I was also extremely nervous about coming to such a bad economy so had a couple of Plan B's.
> 
> Your right, I don't have any dependents. That would make life hard. Frankly sometimes I feel pretty guilty that I can come here and get work when so many are struggling.
> 
> The non-eu passport holders can indeed come in on student visas and have up to 20 hours a week to support themselves. the usual thing is to teach english I guess.
> 
> there appears to be a lot of unprofessional, unreliable people in the industry so if you have a good work ethic it goes a long way or so it seems. I'm a bit older too with a corporate background, so seem to fit teaching Business English in company.
> 
> Even today I had a call about some work and our academy sends out jobs almost daily.
> in saying that, yep I won't ever make my millions, but that's not my intention.
> Not sure about TEFL in other regions of Spain, interested to hear about that.


I wouldn't feel guilty about it, you're filling a need that the Spanish have and you're not exactly lining your pockets with gold. If you wanted to "give something back" to this country, you could try giving classes at cut prices to a couple of teens that have failed their end of term exams, or a couple of people who are trying to pass First of Advanced in order to get a job, or a better job.
I agree there are still a lot of cowboys winging their way through "conversation" classes AKA "have a chat classes". Professionality is more and more appreciated by the student however, and if they have the money available to pay for it, they will. 
Having said that, demand has gone down considerably around here (Las Rozas) for company classes an whereas in other years I was literally inundated with calls and emails they are few and far between this year. Hope it picks up in Sept.
Anyway, I think you have a healthy attitude, so it sounds like you'll survive in Madrid. I get the impression that in other parts of Spain there's not so much work and the pay is MUCH lower than here.
What's the scoop on the visa?


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## gracegaldo

In Granada there seems to be plenty of TEFL work if you are qualified. My husband has been offered work from several Language schoosl and agencies. He is holding off because he doesn't yet have his NIE, and when he does, he will be working for TEFL in Spain, a new TEFL school here in Granada, as a teacher trainer. He has his TEFL and also a Masters in Education with a good few years experience so it has been easier for him. Even if you only have your TEFL, if you do not need to support a family and don't mind kind of rubbish working conditions, teaching English here in Granada you can make enough money to live.

I've been doing a few private English classes as well, exam time is coming up so plenty of people are looking for private lessons. One thing I notice is how the pay has changed pretty drastically since I last lived in Spain (2006). I used to be paid 10 euros an hour working as an inexperienced english nanny and english tutor. Now, I have much more experience and yet I'm charging 8 euros an hour as people simply do not have the money that they used to. I remember reading that the minimum a qualified English teacher should charge in Granada is 15 euros an hour. Now, in 2012, nobody would dare ask for that, and if they do, they are not going to get many students. I've seen posters offering classes for as little as 3 euros an hour here!


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## xabiaxica

gracegaldo said:


> In Granada there seems to be plenty of TEFL work if you are qualified. My husband has been offered work from several Language schoosl and agencies. He is holding off because he doesn't yet have his NIE, and when he does, he will be working for TEFL in Spain, a new TEFL school here in Granada, as a teacher trainer. He has his TEFL and also a Masters in Education with a good few years experience so it has been easier for him. Even if you only have your TEFL, if you do not need to support a family and don't mind kind of rubbish working conditions, teaching English here in Granada you can make enough money to live.
> 
> I've been doing a few private English classes as well, exam time is coming up so plenty of people are looking for private lessons. One thing I notice is how the pay has changed pretty drastically since I last lived in Spain (2006). I used to be paid 10 euros an hour working as an inexperienced english nanny and english tutor. Now, I have much more experience and yet I'm charging 8 euros an hour as people simply do not have the money that they used to. I remember reading that the minimum a qualified English teacher should charge in Granada is 15 euros an hour. Now, in 2012, nobody would dare ask for that, and if they do, they are not going to get many students. I've seen posters offering classes for as little as 3 euros an hour here!


3€ an hour?!!

surely that isn't one-to-one?

there was a language school offering Spanish classes at 2€ an hour - but that was in a big group & you had to pay a year upfront


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## mrypg9

I simply wouldn't work for those rates of pay. Even in the Czech Republic five years ago I got 20 euros an hour for teaching a class of six students. I worked for a government body. People I kinew who worked for private companies were able to command a higher hourly rate.

I have a BA Hons degree from UC, London University and have taught MFL and worked as an interpreter/translator so I guess I'm 'qualified'.

I'm so glad I'm not looking for work now....


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## xabiaxica

mrypg9 said:


> I simply wouldn't work for those rates of pay. Even in the Czech Republic five years ago I got 20 euros an hour for teaching a class of six students. I worked for a government body. People I kinew who worked for private companies were able to command a higher hourly rate.
> 
> I have a BA Hons degree from UC, London University and have taught MFL and worked as an interpreter/translator so I guess I'm 'qualified'.
> 
> I'm so glad I'm not looking for work now....


less than 5 years ago the language academy I worked for was paying 10€ an hour whether you were teaching a one to one or a group of 8 

I made a lot more with my private classes


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## mrypg9

It's scandalous to work for 3 euros an hour and even worse to *pay* someone 3 euros an hour.

Have such people no shame


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## 90199

Perhaps it is 3€ an hour per person, a class of 10 to 20 persons could be quite lucrative!


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## xabiaxica

Hepa said:


> Perhaps it is 3€ an hour per person, a class of 10 to 20 persons could be quite lucrative!


yes, that's what the local language school was charging - 2€ an hour per person - massive groups though


it seems to have disappeared........


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## gracegaldo

xabiachica said:


> 3€ an hour?!!
> 
> surely that isn't one-to-one?
> 
> there was a language school offering Spanish classes at 2€ an hour - but that was in a big group & you had to pay a year upfront


I know!! It was on a poster for "classes particulares", so most of the time I imagine it's just one to one. It could be quite good if you had a group of 4-6 students together each paying 3 euros, but if thats not the case it's barely worth it. 

Saying all of this, my husband and I had a very short lived career working at a beach front bar in Almeria in 2006 where we were paid about 3 euros an hour. I'm not sure what we, or the owner, were thinking, but needless to say we didn't stay long!


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