# Dreaming of new life



## lottyclarke (Jun 27, 2013)

Hello! I am a newbie, and hope that you may be able to help. ....

My husband, and two little ones are hoping to move to Spain as soon as feasible. 

I am a nurse, and my hubbie is in IT. 

We have seen a property in which we could run a business, and are now seriosly researching everything to move closer to that dream! 

A few queries....

1)NIE number - what exactly is it, and can I obtain one whilst still resident in UK?

2)We will need a mortgate for a property - does anyone have advice on what Spanish banks will lend to Brits, and how to approach them?

3)Padron - is this a solicitor - do you have to use a spanish solicitor to buy in Spain?

4) For those of you with little ones, would you recommend State or International schools?

I may well return with more questions!! 

Charlotte


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

welcome

first point is. once in Spain for 90 days you have to register, to do this you have to show proof of income and health cover

If you are looking at going self employed you will have to pay autonomo everymonth which is about 280 euros no matter what you income. Not all businesses can be autonomo 

There is a FAQ thread. and others will know more


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Welcome to the forum. 

The NIE number is initially a temporary number which allows you to make large purchases, have utility bills etc - Thats why you need one, altho I'm sure someone will be along to tell you the official need. You can obtain a temporary one if you're buying a property, but to gain a permanent one and become a resident, you'll need to show proof of income and healthcare provision.

As long as the kids are young (under around 10yo), they'll probably be alright in a state school - which fortunately is free - apart from the school books. International schools arent.

Mortgages arent easy and the rules seem to vary - a while ago, I heard that Spanish banks wouldnt give mortgages to expats, unless they lived in Spain and had a good history there... But as with everything in Spain, things change daily, from area to area and depending who you speak to at the time.

The question is what sort of business are you thinking of running - bare in mind that nothing is the same as in the UK, there are many strange rules and regulations you'd need to have in place for most businesses. 

As "Cambio" has pointed out, to be self employed, you need to pay autonomo which would at least cover the cost of healthcare.

The best thing you can do is go over on some fact finding trips and get a feel for things and of course have a good look around the forum

Jo xxx


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## lottyclarke (Jun 27, 2013)

Ahhh, thanks for that...
The property is a villa that we would rent out rooms in
Do you know if we can obtain an NIE from here in the UK?


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

lottyclarke said:


> Ahhh, thanks for that...
> The property is a villa that we would rent out rooms in
> Do you know if we can obtain an NIE from here in the UK?


Your husband is in IT. If all his work is in the UK, or he is employed by a UK company, he wont necessarily need to register as autonomo in Spain, he can do a spanish tax return declaring his income

If you were hoping to get work nursing in Spain, I would say the chances are slim

As regards the room renting, you will (if doing it properly) have to register your property with the local authorities as a rental home. You will need insurance that covers people staying with you, and you should also bear in mind a very important point. Currently the Spanish Govt has been under pressure from the leisure industry about people doing holiday lets in their properties. To that end, legislation is being formulated to stop home owners letting their properties for less than 1 month. In other words, you may not be able to let your property for 1, 2 or 3 week periods.


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

lottyclarke said:


> Ahhh, thanks for that...
> The property is a villa that we would rent out rooms in
> Do you know if we can obtain an NIE from here in the UK?


I don't want to be negative, but, we were considering this, to top up a pension income, but once we had visited, looked around and investigated all the costs etc it was not worth it, every B&B / Apt we stayed in were struggling and looking for more work. If you look at owners direct and look at the properties and then the availability, there is a HUGE amount of competition. You would have to be offering something very different, imho to feed a family of 4. We are only 2 and decided against this idea, and will now not be worrying about topping up pension pot. Unless you have another definite income stream, I personally would not go down this route.


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

cambio said:


> I don't want to be negative, but, we were considering this, to top up a pension income, but once we had visited, looked around and investigated all the costs etc it was not worth it, every B&B / Apt we stayed in were struggling and looking for more work. If you look at owners direct and look at the properties and then the availability, there is a HUGE amount of competition. You would have to be offering something very different, imho to feed a family of 4. We are only 2 and decided against this idea, and will now not be worrying about topping up pension pot. Unless you have another definite income stream, I personally would not go down this route.


But owners direct and the rest of them ..... they wont be able to operate at all if the current legislation I mentioned goes through


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Stravinsky said:


> But owners direct and the rest of them ..... they wont be able to operate at all if the current legislation I mentioned goes through


I've heard a lot about various new rental legislation re: EPC certs for long term rentals & registration for holiday rentals, but this is the first I've heard about 1 month minimum rental periods :confused2:


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

If you would be relying on income from rentals to pay your mortgage it would imo not be a very good idea...Of course this may not be the case,but if you were you might run into problems.
Unemployment in Spain, especially in the Costas, is very high, well over 30%. Rents and prices for holiday lets are in freefall as owners desperately compete for custom. There are loads of cheap holiday lets available everywhere.
As someone has said, you would have little chance of working as a nurse here, in fact, you'd have little chance of working, full stop.
Spain is a great place to live.... if you have a job, have a good chance of getting one or don't need to work. Otherwise, it's not a dream, it's a nightmare....There is no welfare state as in the UK, no Child Benefit, Housing Benefit etc. 
When we who live and, some of us, work here, point out the reality of life in Spain in 2013 we get accused of 'negativity'. But the sad fact is that Spain now is not the Spain of ten years ago and I doubt it ever will be again.
My view is that if you are young, have no dependents...as long as you have the price of a ticket back to the UK, go for it.
But with children....it's risky.


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

xabiachica said:


> I've heard a lot about various new rental legislation re: EPC certs for long term rentals & registration for holiday rentals, but this is the first I've heard about 1 month minimum rental periods :confused2:


I cant get you the link, because the forum in question that you know is a problem for me at the moment due to false malware blocking. there was a discussion on it and a link to the relevant story.


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

xabiachica said:


> I've heard a lot about various new rental legislation re: EPC certs for long term rentals & registration for holiday rentals, but this is the first I've heard about 1 month minimum rental periods :confused2:



Heres a story on it 

Ending with illegal rental properties for tourists in Spain | Property Marbella apartments and villas blog

This means that it will be unlawful to rent a property out for short-term tourists, says Eliseo Martinez, Secretary General of the Association Asociación de Gestores the Viviendas de uso Turístico de Madrid, Asotur dealing with rental of tourist accommodation..................


And here in Spanish
http://www.02b.com/es/notices/2013/...uileres_a_turistas_en_casas_privadas_5897.php


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Stravinsky said:


> I cant get you the link, because the forum in question that you know is a problem for me at the moment due to* false malware blocking*. there was a discussion on it and a link to the relevant story.


I've decided to ignore that :fingerscrossed: & I've been to have a look 

I've also been following the Spanish press on this for several months & I can't recall a single mention of a 1 month minimum let


in any case - I'd be surprised if that made a difference - those letting 'illegal, unlicensed' holiday lets aren't going to be bothered by it, are they?


and everything I've read states that the idea is to get holiday villas/apartments etc licensed & subject to certain reglautions, not to shut them down

this is the most recent news report I can find atm Entra en vigor la Ley del Alquiler, que vincula los alojamientos turísticos a la norma sobre turismo de CC.AA.

googletranslate version Google Translate


when you find the link you're talking about I'd be interested to see it


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

xabiachica said:


> I've decided to ignore that :fingerscrossed: & I've been to have a look
> 
> I've also been following the Spanish press on this for several months & I can't recall a single mention of a 1 month minimum let
> 
> ...


Its definitely an issue .... I talked to the estate agent who came to our house about it, and he was also concerned.
There was talk about the authorities scanning the main holiday sites, and of course the police are always visiting around our way. As usual, the clincher is the level of fines they apply for (a) not registering with the local authorities and (b) letting out for short periods


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Stravinsky said:


> Its definitely an issue .... I talked to the estate agent who came to our house about it, and he was also concerned.
> There was talk about the authorities scanning the main holiday sites, and of course the police are always visiting around our way. As usual, the clincher is the level of fines they apply for (a) not registering with the local authorities and (b) letting out for short periods


yes, I've spoken to a couple of local agents here

one is registered with the Valencian Tourist office & has heard absolutely nothing from them....

another is speaking to the owners they represent to find out if they declare....


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## tommy.irene (Apr 5, 2013)

Its Illegal to let out your property without a licence from the Town Hall.. Longterm lets are ok if they are over a month.. The hotel owners are losing buseness with people letting out weekly..


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

tommy.irene said:


> Its Illegal to let out your property without a licence from the Town Hall.. Longterm lets are ok if they are over a month.. The hotel owners are losing buseness with people letting out weekly..


so are you saying that it's illegal to let a property for less than a month full stop?

or just that you need a licence to do so (as you have for a loooong time, in fact)


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## tommy.irene (Apr 5, 2013)

If i was you and your husband i wouldnt sell my house in England as you can rent it out.. and if things go wrong you can go back to it .. Come to Spain for 3 to 6 months and see if things work for you,s..There is no work here so i hope your husband has a job to come to ..come and give it a try and goodluck to the 4 of you..


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## lottyclarke (Jun 27, 2013)

The property we are purchsing is a plot with 1 family house, and 2 villas that we would rent out - it is already licensed , and in a rural area - would this still be included in the new laws.....
Anyone know when or if this legislation will be passed?


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## tommy.irene (Apr 5, 2013)

Tommy Johnston
- Spain declares war on holiday rentals - Herald.ie

Spain declares war on holiday rentals - Herald.ie
Herald.ie - Herald.ie
PRIVATE holiday rentals could be restricted across Spain under a law being debated in parliament seen as favouring the hotel industry.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

tommy.irene said:


> No More Short-term Rentals (Really, They'll be Much Happier in a Hotel)
> [.More cases here... http://www.janetanscombe.com/illegal...n-the-canaries then click on..Owning property ..then click....Illegal letting
> http://www.janetanscombe.com/illegal...n-the-canaries
> Welcome To Janet Anscombe in Tenerife | Janet Anscombe



thanks - from one of those I've found this - the actual boletín - which has a lot of interesting stuff about long term rental - which deserves a thread of its own when I have time - mentions holiday lets needing to be subject to tourism industry regulations.......... it doesn't seem to say they have to stop & I can't see anything about 1 month minimum lets

http://www.boe.es/boe/dias/2013/06/05/pdfs/BOE-A-2013-5941.pdf


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## tommy.irene (Apr 5, 2013)

Britons facing £15,000 fines in Canaries for letting homes and breaking a law that's not been enforced for years | Mail Online
Britons facing £15,000 fines in Canaries for letting homes and breaking a law that's not been enforc 
Home | Mail Online
The regional government is sending out teams of inspectors to check if foreign nationals have written

Britons facing £15,000 fines in Canaries for letting homes and breaking a law that's not been enforc
Home | Mail Online
The regional government is sending out teams of


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## tommy.irene (Apr 5, 2013)

xabiachica said:


> thanks - from one of those I've found this - the actual boletín - which has a lot of interesting stuff about long term rental - which deserves a thread of its own when I have time - mentions holiday lets needing to be subject to tourism industry regulations.......... it doesn't seem to say they have to stop & I can't see anything about 1 month minimum lets
> 
> http://www.boe.es/boe/dias/2013/06/05/pdfs/BOE-A-2013-5941.pdf


Take your time and read the ones of people who were fined for illegal letting..you are not aloud to let out your house to anyone ...


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## tommy.irene (Apr 5, 2013)

Longterm lets start at one month...Hotels arnt worried about them ..only weekly ones.. The new laws will sort everyone out and so will the Tax man..


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

tommy.irene said:


> Take your time and read the ones of people who were fined for illegal letting..you are not aloud to let out your house to anyone ...



a couple of the links aren't working - but that's what I've been saying, as has everything I've read in the Spanish press

it's not intended to stop holiday lets completely - just to regularise them & make sure people pay their taxes etc


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

xabiachica said:


> a couple of the links aren't working - but that's what I've been saying, as has everything I've read in the Spanish press
> 
> it's not intended to stop holiday lets completely - just to regularise them & make sure people pay their taxes etc



All I can tell you is that from within the industry I was told there are attempts to limit the renting periods of villas .. and yes to have them declared as well, but the way it was put to me was that not many houses actually get approved. Of course we wont know the full thing until time has moved on a bit.


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## tommy.irene (Apr 5, 2013)

The police are looking at the newspapers and on websites for illegal letting..


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

lottyclarke said:


> The property we are purchsing is a plot with 1 family house, and 2 villas that we would rent out - it is already licensed , and in a rural area - would this still be included in the new laws.....
> Anyone know when or if this legislation will be passed?


I really think that the legislation is the least of your problems. How will a family live on holiday letting income?


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

lottyclarke said:


> The property we are purchsing is a plot with 1 family house, and 2 villas that we would rent out - it is already licensed , and in a rural area - would this still be included in the new laws.....
> Anyone know when or if this legislation will be passed?


I have to agree with Cambio. It could be more difficult to eke out a living from weekly lets in the campo away from the tourist areas.
Renting your house in the UK isn't a reliable way of paying off a mortgage. We rented ours when we first left the UK but sold as we had problems with tenants. By the time you've paid an agent to manage your property, paid any tax due, forked out for repairs...there isn't much left of your rental income.

I'm not sure how easy it would be to get a mortgage in Spain now. At one time the saying went that you needed only a passport and a pulse to get one. No doubt that's why so many British immigrants have got in over their heads.

Another very important point: you say this property is in a rural area ...I would check very carefully that it has ALL the permissions required. If the 'licence' is from the local Ayuntamiento, it may not be agreed by the Regional Planning Authority. Many houses in rural areas have been given licences by their mlocal Town Hall but not by the Junta. Agan , everything may be perfectly above board...but you need to check as you don't want to wake up and find a bulldozer at your front door.

You need an awful lot of luck plus a USP to do well in renting rooms on a weekly basis in the campo. Some do well, very many don't.

As I always say in reply to posts like yours....if you have no dependent children and an exit strategy, go for it. But with children to consider some risks are just......well, too risky.

If your OH can work in IT from Spain then obviously the risk is less but his chances of getting work doing anything in Spain, especially in a rural area, are, like yours, very slim indeed.

In order to get your NIE in the first place, before you start thinking about autonomo taxes, licences, getting your children in school, transport - you can only drive your UK plated car here for 90 days, I think it is, then you must have it put on Spanish plates which could be expensive - you will have to show proof of monthly income paid directly into a Spanish bank account. The amount is around £600 per person and that includes children.

Spain just isn't a 'dream' anymore, if it ever was, I'm afraid. It's a great place to live if you have a job or don't need one. Like anywhere in the world, really. But for many immigrants, their dream has turned into a nightmare.


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## tommy.irene (Apr 5, 2013)

Another new law has just been passed.... 
The new energy efficiency law has now come into force, everyone assumed that the Canary Islands would be exempt because as a general rule of thumb we don't have heating here.

But, the long and the short of it is, that nobody is allowed to advertise/have a property for sale or for rent, unless they can provide the notary, purchaser or tenant with the Energy Performance Certificate.

Those that do not have a certificate will be fined by the government, the law also states that an agency advertising a property will be fined heavily, if it cannot provide the certificate for a property on their books.

.................


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

tommy.irene said:


> Another new law has just been passed....
> The new energy efficiency law has now come into force, everyone assumed that the Canary Islands would be exempt because as a general rule of thumb we don't have heating here.
> 
> But, the long and the short of it is, that nobody is allowed to advertise/have a property for sale or for rent, unless they can provide the notary, purchaser or tenant with the Energy Performance Certificate.
> ...


here's the discussion we started here in March if you want to join in 

http://www.expatforum.com/expats/sp...in/148372-energy-performance-certificate.html


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## thrax (Nov 13, 2008)

I once dreamed of a new life and it was wonderful. And then I woke up....


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