# 11 month rentals - help please??



## jojo

So, what happens when you have an 11 month contract that runs until September and the landlord "pops" in and declares that they've sold the house and we need to leave by June at the latest - but it would be better for us to move out before the start of the summer season so that we can get a decent rental price on another property???

I've just come home from work and the agent (who lives next door) has just greeted me with this. Apparently the owners came round earlier and spoke to my son while I was at work! I simply said that we have a contract that runs out at the end of September - help anyone???

Jo xxx


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## Pesky Wesky

jojo said:


> So, what happens when you have an 11 month contract that runs until September and the landlord "pops" in and declares that they've sold the house and we need to leave by June at the latest - but it would be better for us to move out before the start of the summer season so that we can get a decent rental price on another property???
> 
> I've just come home from work and the agent (who lives next door) has just greeted me with this. Apparently the owners came round earlier and spoke to my son while I was at work! I simply said that we have a contract that runs out at the end of September - help anyone???
> 
> Jo xxx


Oh ******!!
Try Steve in Spain, Bakeja, djfwells...
Sorry to hear that Jojo


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## Caz.I

Yes sorry to hear that too, Jo. I dont know the ins and outs of rental contracts TBH but I cant see the logic in having a 11 month contract signed by both parties if one can wriggle out of it when they feel like it! Otherwise what is the point of having a contract? Maybe he is just trying it on? Or maybe it is more complicated than that...


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## donz

oh gawd!!! I know in the UK they have to give you a certain amount of notice (even if you have a contract until Sept, they can give you 2mths notice for example) 

Have you read the contract itself to see if that is written in there - when the landlord needs to give you notice?

How rubbish is that though - I know this was a better house for you and this year was starting to look up - maybe this is 'fate' & there is an even better house for you out there x


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## kaz101

The other thing you could try is agree that you would like to help them to out by moving out then but could they pay you something towards 'moving costs'?


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## xabiaxica

kaz101 said:


> The other thing you could try is agree that you would like to help them to out by moving out then but could they pay you something towards 'moving costs'?


I'd certainly try for that

but it doesn't matter how long a contract is for, if the contract says that either the tenant or owner can give a certain amount of notice at any time (which all standard contracts do seem to) then there's nothing much you can do

make the agent feel really guilty jojo - they must have known that the property was on the market & should have made you aware of that - make them find you somewhere great for a good rent - even if they have to take a cut in their cut (if you see what I mean)

your instinct is right - get out asap - the chances of getting a long term rental diminish exponentially the nearer you get to the summer - some owners will hold out for the possibility of a high rent summer let, even if it means the place ending up empty


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## gus-lopez

Was it on the market or has he found someone willing to pay ' summer rates ' ? I'd want the agents fee back, plus moving costs , etc.


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## dinnow

jojo said:


> So, what happens when you have an 11 month contract that runs until September and the landlord "pops" in and declares that they've sold the house and we need to leave by June at the latest - but it would be better for us to move out before the start of the summer season so that we can get a decent rental price on another property???
> 
> I've just come home from work and the agent (who lives next door) has just greeted me with this. Apparently the owners came round earlier and spoke to my son while I was at work! I simply said that we have a contract that runs out at the end of September - help anyone???
> 
> Jo xxx


I think you will find that it depends entirely on what your rental contract says. Does it include a clause on notice? If so, what does it say? If it doesn't I suspect that you are legally entitled to sit tight until the end of the contract.
When selling a property there is a standard clause in the escritura to the effect that the property has no sitting tenant. If the landlord has chosen not to tell the buyer about you and there is no notice provision in your rental contract, then you are in a wonderful position. You have the choice of seeing out the contract till September or screwing a ransom payment out of the landlord.


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## Alcalaina

He can´t change the contract just to suit him! He can only terminate it early if any of the following apply:

a) The landlord may terminate the rental contract when the tenant:

* Does not pay the rent or deposit.
* Rent the property to a third party without the landlord’s consent.
* Deliberately causes damages to the property.
* Undertake repairs without landlords’ consent.
* Causes serious nuisance to the neighbours.

So if you move earlier, you would be doing him a big favour - and he must know this. Make sure he makes it worth your while to move, don´t let him bully you and if he tries to put pressure on, go talk to an abogado,


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## Alcalaina

More on tenants´ rights re short term contracts:
"A landlord can evict a tent and regain his property on several grounds, including failure to pay the rent (but courts have often ruled that *these arrears must exceed six months* before any action can be taken), damage done to the property, use of the property for immoral purposes, subletting without permission from the owner, and causing a serious nuisance to the neighbors. *In any of these cases, a court order must be obtained against the tenant and many months could pass before he is evicted*."


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## jojo

I have been "squeaky" clean. I've done nothing immoral (sadly), I pay my rent and the bills on time and I look after the house and its contents. I think (apart from everything else) whats annoying/worrying me is that my son is due to sit his GCSEs in May/June so we really dont want the upheaval or unrest that moving would cause - he doesnt need an excuse to do badly at his exams!!!!!

I know that the agent and landlord dont declare that we're living here so dont pay any tax on the rental - maybe I could make a veiled threat???????????

Thanks for everyone replies 

Jo xxx


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## fourgotospain

Agree with Xab - have a strong word with the agent. Every one that we've ever asked have had a strict policy that the house is off the market while rented unless agreed by the tenant (for a reduced rent for example). I would also berate the agent about the owners just 'popping in' - usually they have to give you notice.


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## xabiaxica

jojo said:


> I have been "squeaky" clean. I've done nothing immoral (sadly), I pay my rent and the bills on time and I look after the house and its contents. I think (apart from everything else) whats annoying/worrying me is that my son is due to sit his GCSEs in May/June so we really dont want the upheaval or unrest that moving would cause - he doesnt need an excuse to do badly at his exams!!!!!
> 
> I know that the agent and landlord dont declare that we're living here so dont pay any tax on the rental - maybe I could make a veiled threat???????????
> 
> Thanks for everyone replies
> 
> Jo xxx


I'd make more than a veiled threat!!!

but in all honesty - if your contract says that either tenant or landlord can give notice (usually equal to he number of months deposit) for any reason at any time - as every contract we've had here does - then there's nothing you can do really



PM me the contract if you like & I'll check over it


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## dinnow

jojo said:


> I have been "squeaky" clean. I've done nothing immoral (sadly), I pay my rent and the bills on time and I look after the house and its contents. I think (apart from everything else) whats annoying/worrying me is that my son is due to sit his GCSEs in May/June so we really dont want the upheaval or unrest that moving would cause - he doesnt need an excuse to do badly at his exams!!!!!
> 
> I know that the agent and landlord dont declare that we're living here so dont pay any tax on the rental - maybe I could make a veiled threat???????????
> 
> Thanks for everyone replies
> 
> Jo xxx


You still don't say what the contract says on notice. You may have the option of telling the landlord to get stuffed and just sit tight. Well, in practice, you have that option anyway because, as has been said earlier, he'd be unlikely to get you out before September anyway. But I'd change the locks if you were thinking of going down that route.


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## jojo

dinnow said:


> You still don't say what the contract says on notice. You may have the option of telling the landlord to get stuffed and just sit tight. Well, in practice, you have that option anyway because, as has been said earlier, he'd be unlikely to get you out before September anyway. But I'd change the locks if you were thinking of going down that route.


The contract says nothing about notice on either side, unless I fail to adhere to the terms (pay, maintain etc...)! My lovely neighbour who is Spanish and totally bilingual has just gone to the agent with me and she told them in no uncertain terms that they cannot ask me to leave cos its not in the contract, but if they really want me to they will have to either compensate me handsomely or provide me with another property of the same type, standard, in the same area AND pay my moving costs. She also told them off for the owners turning up at the house unannounced (not allowed without an appointment, (according to the contract)

Jo xx


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## xabiaxica

jojo said:


> The contract says nothing about notice on either side, unless I fail to adhere to the terms (pay, maintain etc...)! My lovely neighbour who is Spanish and totally bilingual has just gone to the agent with me and she told them in no uncertain terms that they cannot ask me to leave cos its not in the contract, but if they really want me to they will have to either compensate me handsomely or provide me with another property of the same type, standard, in the same area AND pay my moving costs. She also told them off for the owners turning up at the house unannounced (not allowed without an appointment, (according to the contract)
> 
> Jo xx


go girl!!!!:clap2::clap2:

VERY unusual to say nothing about a notice period in a rental contract though:confused2:


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## Alcalaina

jojo said:


> The contract says nothing about notice on either side, unless I fail to adhere to the terms (pay, maintain etc...)! My lovely neighbour who is Spanish and totally bilingual has just gone to the agent with me and she told them in no uncertain terms that they cannot ask me to leave cos its not in the contract, but if they really want me to they will have to either compensate me handsomely or provide me with another property of the same type, standard, in the same area AND pay my moving costs. She also told them off for the owners turning up at the house unannounced (not allowed without an appointment, (according to the contract)
> 
> Jo xx


Must be a big relief for you. Sounds like a good neighbour to have!


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## dinnow

xabiachica said:


> go girl!!!!:clap2::clap2:
> 
> VERY unusual to say nothing about a notice period in a rental contract though:confused2:


Not in an eleven month contract which is why I wondered. Great result though. Delighted for you Jo.


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## lynn

Alcalaina said:


> Must be a big relief for you. Sounds like a good neighbour to have!


If it's the neighbour I think it is Jo, then yes folks, she is a wonderful neighbour!!

I'm appalled that you have had to go through all this, and hope that it sorts itself out to your satisfaction. If there is anything I can do, please let me know 

Lynn
x


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## jojo

lynn said:


> If it's the neighbour I think it is Jo, then yes folks, she is a wonderful neighbour!!
> 
> I'm appalled that you have had to go through all this, and hope that it sorts itself out to your satisfaction. If there is anything I can do, please let me know
> 
> Lynn
> x



Yes - my "neighbour" is the chilean lady opposite who has the son that my daughter is "in love" with lol. The one we went to the market with!!!!!! Its confusing, cos my agent is also a neighbour who lives a couple of doors down the road - she's French! the neighbours directly next door to me are dutch - not many Spanish..... or indeed British about in our part of expatfordshire!!!!!

Jo xxx


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## xabiaxica

dinnow said:


> Not in an eleven month contract which is why I wondered. Great result though. Delighted for you Jo.


every rental contract we've had - 3 months to a proper 'long term' contract - has had a notice period

I'd insist on it in any case - what if you found you had to move before the '11 months' or whatever was up - for whatever reason - you need to be able to give notice & move


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## dinnow

xabiachica said:


> every rental contract we've had - 3 months to a proper 'long term' contract - has had a notice period
> 
> I'd insist on it in any case - what if you found you had to move before the '11 months' or whatever was up - for whatever reason - you need to be able to give notice & move


I have had experience of 11 month contracts that provide for no notice on either side for the first six months and a months notice by the tenant after that with the landlord committed to the full eleven months. And I have had experience of eleven month contracts with no provision for notice by either party. Depends largely when they start.
At the end of the day, the contract is the outcome of a negotiation. You might try to insist on a notice period but you would probably not succeed very often. The point of an eleven months contract is that the landlord has guaranteed rental income for those eleven months and agrees a rent which averages out the low, medium and high season. How reasonable do you think it would be for a tenant to pay the lower annualised rent for the summer months and then leave in September. Doesn't work.


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## xabiaxica

dinnow said:


> I have had experience of 11 month contracts that provide for no notice on either side for the first six months and a months notice by the tenant after that with the landlord committed to the full eleven months. And I have had experience of eleven month contracts with no provision for notice by either party. Depends largely when they start.
> At the end of the day, the contract is the outcome of a negotiation. You might try to insist on a notice period but you would probably not succeed very often. The point of an eleven months contract is that the landlord has guaranteed rental income for those eleven months and agrees a rent which averages out the low, medium and high season. How reasonable do you think it would be for a tenant to pay the lower annualised rent for the summer months and then leave in September. Doesn't work.


as I said - in over 7 years, I've _never _had a property rental contract without a notice period - and would never sign one

I think the nearest we had was when we first arrived - we had a renewable 3 month contract, and every 3 months committed the next 3 months - so 3 months notice in a way - or no notice at all, if either we or the owners had decided not to renew at the last minute

as it happened, when we decided to move, we did give the owners a month warning that we wouldn't be renewing


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## jojo

Well I've gotta be honest, in theis particular instant I'm glad we dont have a months notice either way cos otherwise we would be legally obliged to leave here by June and we so dont want to. 

In any case, surely if these 11 month contracts have a "get out" clause, doesnt it make the tenant a little vunerable??? You could get notice at anytime and in a strange country when you've only just got settled...........?????

Jo xxx


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## dinnow

xabiachica said:


> as I said - in over 7 years, I've _never _had a property rental contract without a notice period - and would never sign one
> 
> I think the nearest we had was when we first arrived - we had a renewable 3 month contract, and every 3 months committed the next 3 months - so 3 months notice in a way - or no notice at all, if either we or the owners had decided not to renew at the last minute
> 
> as it happened, when we decided to move, we did give the owners a month warning that we wouldn't be renewing


Congratulations. I am happy for you. You clearly have a talent for finding landlords who are either dumb or desperate. Or both.


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## jojo

dinnow said:


> Congratulations. I am happy for you. You clearly have a talent for finding landlords who are either dumb or desperate. Or both.


Maybe Xabiachica finds like-minded people who are happy to play fair. There are plenty of them around if you move in the right circles and integrate

Jo xxx


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## mrypg9

Alcalaina said:


> More on tenants´ rights re short term contracts:
> "A landlord can evict a tent and regain his property on several grounds, including failure to pay the rent (but courts have often ruled that *these arrears must exceed six months* before any action can be taken), damage done to the property, use of the property for immoral purposes, subletting without permission from the owner, and causing a serious nuisance to the neighbors. *In any of these cases, a court order must be obtained against the tenant and many months could pass before he is evicted*."


And there was talk of the power of landlords over tenants!! Doesn't seem like that from reading that.
I would never rent out a property here as I could end up severely out of pocket, especially if I had a mortgage to pay or the tenant had damaged my property. From the above, it's clear that a landlord could wait several months, a year even, without regaining the property or receiving a cent in rent.
But this agent/landlord is well out of order and I think you should kick up a MAJOR fuss, Jo.
You have been messed about with and no decent landlord would behave in this way to a good tenant. Find out what your rights are and demand that they be respected.


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## jojo

I think I've sussed out the situation I'm in. The owner of my house is actually a personal friend of one of the owners of the letting agency - they're both french and their houses are close to each other. So the lady/agent up the road from me is going to be "looking out" for her friends who obviously want this house for holiday rentals througthout the summer - I must admit its in a cracking position!!!! I think they see that I'm a woman on my own (most of the time) and assume that I'm a soft touch!!!! However, the agent (spanish) who we saw in the office yesterday didnt seem to have any bias and because I went in with another neighbour (also spanish), they discussed the terms on the contract and there is no clause to say that anyone can give notice to leave - my friend didnt mince her words either, it was a real "spanish" conversation, which resulted in the agent saying that if there was any reason for me to have to move then they would supply and move me to a property of equal, if not better standards - in fact she did mention a property nearby which I've since driven passed and.... hmmm, very nice!!!?

The scary thing is that the owners have now made an appointment to visit the house here tomorrow, as I had also mentioned that there was quite a large patch of damp/peeling paint on a wall which they want to look at - I wish I hadnt said anything now. I can actually speak french, but I think I'll simply "play dumb" (I'm good at that!!) and say nothing!!! 


Jo xxx


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## xabiaxica

dinnow said:


> Congratulations. I am happy for you. You clearly have a talent for finding landlords who are either dumb or desperate. Or both.


there area lot of desperate owners around at the moment, it's true

but none were dumb - just reasonable & sensible


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## gus-lopez

jojo said:


> I think I've sussed out the situation I'm in. The owner of my house is actually a personal friend of one of the owners of the letting agency - they're both french and their houses are close to each other. So the lady/agent up the road from me is going to be "looking out" for her friends who obviously want this house for holiday rentals througthout the summer - I must admit its in a cracking position!!!! I think they see that I'm a woman on my own (most of the time) and assume that I'm a soft touch!!!! However, the agent (spanish) who we saw in the office yesterday didnt seem to have any bias and because I went in with another neighbour (also spanish), they discussed the terms on the contract and there is no clause to say that anyone can give notice to leave - my friend didnt mince her words either, it was a real "spanish" conversation, which resulted in the agent saying that if there was any reason for me to have to move then they would supply and move me to a property of equal, if not better standards - in fact she did mention a property nearby which I've since driven passed and.... hmmm, very nice!!!?
> 
> The scary thing is that the owners have now made an appointment to visit the house here tomorrow, as I had also mentioned that there was quite a large patch of damp/peeling paint on a wall which they want to look at - I wish I hadnt said anything now. I can actually speak french, but I think I'll simply "play dumb" (I'm good at that!!) and say nothing!!!
> 
> 
> Jo xxx


That's the best way & when they start discussing how to get you out in French , you'll know what's going on without them realising ! As I said in my 1st post , holiday rentals !


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## dinnow

xabiachica said:


> there area lot of desperate owners around at the moment, it's true
> 
> but none were dumb - just reasonable & sensible


You seem very sensitive on this subject. Just because it hasn't happened to you doesn't mean it has never happened nor ever could.
Jo's experience shows why a tenant needs long-term security without the provision for the landlord to give notice and get them out legally when summer comes along. But by the same token if the contract started in May, the landlord would want the same security to prevent the tenant getting a low rent over the peak July and August holiday let season and then legally being able to disappear.


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## xabiaxica

dinnow said:


> You seem very sensitive on this subject. Just because it hasn't happened to you doesn't mean it has never happened nor ever could.
> Jo's experience shows why a tenant needs long-term security without the provision for the landlord to give notice and get them out legally when summer comes along. But by the same token if the contract started in May, the landlord would want the same security to prevent the tenant getting a low rent over the peak July and August holiday let season and then legally being able to disappear.


no, I'm not sensitive - just stating what has happened to me - & not saying it never happens or never could - although you seemed to be of the opinion that the contracts we have had didn't happen


yes jojo is lucky that in this case there is no notice period - although I suspect this might not be the end of the matter - a determined landlord can make things difficult

but - what if her situation had changed & she needed to leave before the 11 months was up - I bet there was some clause that said she'd have to pay penalties to get out of it - & I equally bet that there is no mention of any penalties to be paid by the owner


I would still never sign a contract with no agreed notice period stated


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## dinnow

xabiachica said:


> but - what if her situation had changed & she needed to leave before the 11 months was up - I bet there was some clause that said she'd have to pay penalties to get out of it - & I equally bet that there is no mention of any penalties to be paid by the owner



The contracts that I was involved with when I was working in this area provided that both parties were committed for the eleven months. So if a tenant left early they were liable for the balance of the full eleven months' rent. Getting them to pay it was another matter, of course, as others have mentioned on this thread. And if a landlord wanted the tenants out early, tough - it simply wasn't allowed. This provision was always made clear to tenants and was understood by them. We never had any problems.


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## jojo

xabiachica said:


> yes jojo is lucky that in this case there is no notice period - although I suspect this might not be the end of the matter - a determined landlord can make things difficult


You can also suspect that a determined tenant can make things difficult back if necessary 

I'd just like to add that I have rented a lot here, I know people who rent their properties out and I've known a lot of rental agents - there are all manner of contracts out there - from watertight, buttclenching ones to contracts written on the back of a *** packet. What matters is that it is read thoroughly and understood  and that both parties who sign it, agree to it! But better than that, it helps if both parties respect and like each other

Jo xxx


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## xabiaxica

jojo said:


> You can also suspect that a determined tenant can make things difficult back if necessary
> 
> 
> Jo xxx


:clap2::clap2:


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## jojo

Well I often wonder who one should speak to if you know that theres tax evasion going on?? I have to pay my rent in cash and all bills are addressed to the owner who I reimburse!

Jo xxx


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## xabiaxica

jojo said:


> Well I often wonder who one should speak to if you know that theres tax evasion going on?? I have to pay my rent in cash and all bills are addressed to the owner who I reimburse!
> 
> Jo xxx


I'd be surprised if any of the owners we have rented from declared all the income - and the arrangement with the bills you have is the only way we have ever paid bills - the only ones we have had in our name is telephone!


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## jojo

xabiachica said:


> I'd be surprised if any of the owners we have rented from declared all the income - and the arrangement with the bills you have is the only way we have ever paid bills - the only ones we have had in our name is telephone!



Well niether have any I've rented from either. My point is that if I get any grief from these ones, they may be get a retrospective tax bill!

Jo xxx


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## jojo

Heres a question. What happens if the owners of a property dont realise that you are renting it, but think you are simply trying it out with a view to buying it?????? Therefore the agent is able to pocket all the rent!!? And they're in the position whereby they are wanting a decision and would like to have the place back for the summer if the answer is no

Jo xxx


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## gus-lopez

jojo said:


> Heres a question. What happens if the owners of a property dont realise that you are renting it, but think you are simply trying it out with a view to buying it?????? Therefore the agent is able to pocket all the rent!!? And they're in the position whereby they are wanting a decision and would like to have the place back for the summer if the answer is no
> 
> Jo xxx


I'd think that the agent would be deep in the **** ! If that turned out to be the case
you've got a contract for rental, show them that. The problem would be between the agent & owner , I'm sure.


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## xabiaxica

gus-lopez said:


> I'd think that the agent would be deep in the **** ! If that turned out to be the case
> you've got a contract for rental, show them that. The problem would be between the agent & owner , I'm sure.


I agree

if the owner doesn't know you are renting it what the heck do they think you are doing there?

perhaps they think you are there on a rent to buy thing?

in which case surely you'd still be paying something?


I'd make sure the owner knows about the contract one way or another - if they don't/didn't, it's not your problem - it's the agent's


this agent sounds a bit dodgy as it is


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## jojo

I'm very confused and not sure what to do - My neighbour told the agents partner the other day that we had an 11 month contract and she said that they would honour that. I think my next step is to take a copy of my contract to the french agent and tell her to stick it where the sun dont shine!! Who's signatures should be on the contract - Xabiachica, you've seen a copy of said contract, is it ok??????????

Jo xxx


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## xabiaxica

jojo said:


> I'm very confused and not sure what to do - My neighbour told the agents partner the other day that we had an 11 month contract and she said that they would honour that. I think my next step is to take a copy of my contract to the french agent and tell her to stick it where the sun dont shine!! Who's signatures should be on the contract - Xabiachica, you've seen a copy of said contract, is it ok??????????
> 
> Jo xxx


I just had another look

your contract is between you & a french person with a french adderss - I assume the owner

I imagine from what you say the agent signed it?

I can't see anywhere saying _representado por_ (represented by), thus giving the agent the right to sign as representative of the owner

so the owner should have signed it


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## jojo

xabiachica said:


> I just had another look
> 
> your contract is between you & a french person with a french adderss - I assume the owner
> 
> I imagine from what you say the agent signed it?
> 
> I can't see anywhere saying _representado por_ (represented by), thus giving the agent the right to sign as representative of the owner
> 
> so the owner should have signed it



So the contract isnt worth the paper its written on????

Jo xxx


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## xabiaxica

jojo said:


> So the contract isnt worth the paper its written on????
> 
> Jo xxx


pass:confused2: - don't think so but not sure

you really need to see a lawyer if you want to make an issue of it I think -you should beable to get an initial consultation quite cheaply

did you actually see the agent sign it, or was it already signed?

what would worry me more is that the owners don't seem to know what is going on- which I feel could be more problematic - you could find youreslf in the middle of an unholy mess, especially if the contract isn't legal

I _think_ you would be OK - having signed in good faith -but as I said, I'm no lawyer


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## gus-lopez

If there's dodgy dealings going on then the best thing when the owners come to look at the damp is to sort it out then & there. Say you have a contract signed by their agent for 11 months until september & no way would you have entertained renting it if you had known that there was a possibility of being asked to leave. In addition if you had known that it was up for sale & possible for it to be sold before the end of the contract then you wouldn't have rented , not wanting the upheaval whilst your sons exams were in progress ! If anyones being kept in the dark , get it all out in the open. Might be an idea to have the spanish speaking neighbour there to ensure that they know exactly your side.


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## Caz.I

Are you sure the owners dont know about the 11 month contract? I find that hard to believe. It sounds like a feeble attempt to wriggle out of a contractual obligation, on the part of the agent. They might just be trying to come up with all sorts of ruses to persuade you that you have no rights to be there for 11 months so that you will just go along with it and leave when they want you to.
If they had rented out the house without the owner's permission they would be in serious trouble... And if it was a rent to buy agreement, you can guarantee there would a contract for that! No one just "tries out" a house without some kind of legal contract!


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## susanspain

Sorry, Haven't read all the ins and outs here.. But I understand you were/are being asked to leave before the 11 months is up..
As far as I am concerned if I have signed a 'Temporada', then if I were to cut the contract short, I am legally obliged to pay the remaining balance of rent whether I stay or not...
Likewise, if I were asked to leave, I would expect the full amount of the period left on the rental contract. (No small sum if it were 6 months at 600 pcm). 

(Plus I might push for extra cash for 'inconvenience', but not sure I'd get it)... 

Stick your ground.


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## jojo

*update*

OH went and saw the French agent this morning and, as he is a man of few, but direct words. He made it quite clear that our intentions are to stay in the property until the end of the contract. If they wish to breach the terms then we will require compensation. 

The agent acknowledged she knew what the contract states and said she would pass his comments on to the owners! Its such a shame it has to be like this cos we actually are text book tenants, when you hear of how others behave in rented properties they should be so glad they have us lol!!!!

Jo xxx


----------



## dinnow

jojo said:


> *update*
> 
> OH went and saw the French agent this morning and, as he is a man of few, but direct words. He made it quite clear that our intentions are to stay in the property until the end of the contract. If they wish to breach the terms then we will require compensation.
> 
> The agent acknowledged she knew what the contract states and said she would pass his comments on to the owners! Its such a shame it has to be like this cos we actually are text book tenants, when you hear of how others behave in rented properties they should be so glad they have us lol!!!!
> 
> Jo xxx


Jo, I really hope you get the result you want. And I don't want to be the party pooper. But if the two parties to the contract are you and/or hubby and this French bloke then, to be enforceable, it has to be signed by you and/or hubby and the French bloke. If someone has signed on his behalf, I strongly suspect that he can walk away from the contract unless you can prove that he authorised that person to sign.


----------



## jojo

dinnow said:


> Jo, I really hope you get the result you want. And I don't want to be the party pooper. But if the two parties to the contract are you and/or hubby and this French bloke then, to be enforceable, it has to be signed by you and/or hubby and the French bloke. If someone has signed on his behalf, I strongly suspect that he can walk away from the contract unless you can prove that he authorised that person to sign.


Yes, the contract is signed by me only, however, because the agent has accepted my rent, the money for the bills and has acknowledged the existence of the contract and the dates, by implication it is valid apparently!??????? In any case, should they attempt to breach it, we would then take legal action, which would leave them open to having to pay all back taxes as they "forgot" to declare that they've been accepting rent for it. One thing I'm not too sure about is that the named owner on the contract is a company which was set up to buy the property in the first place! I dont know if that makes a difference???

Jo xxx


----------



## dinnow

jojo said:


> Yes, the contract is signed by me only, however, because the agent has accepted my rent, the money for the bills and has acknowledged the existence of the contract and the dates, by implication it is valid apparently!??????? In any case, should they attempt to breach it, we would then take legal action, which would leave them open to having to pay all back taxes as they "forgot" to declare that they've been accepting rent for it. One thing I'm not too sure about is that the named owner on the contract is a company which was set up to buy the property in the first place! I dont know if that makes a difference???
> 
> Jo xxx


That's great. You sound pretty well sorted. 
On your last point, assuming the bloke is a director and that it is a limited company/SL equivalent, then it makes no difference to you. You are contracting with a legal person, not a physical person.


----------



## xicoalc

Hi Jo

Sorry, only jsut seen this. Moved house myself and only recently got online. OK a few things. I worry about the owner not signing the contract, but I am guessing that the agent must have some written authority by the owner to sign on his behalf and I assume you have receipts for all the money you have paid (or bank records).

I refer to a book entitles "you and the law in Spain" which talks about these 11 month contracts. It is commonly known in the courts in Spain that many owners ask tenants to sign 11 month contracts because they believe that it will give them more rights (as they can chuck you out) after 11 months. As you probably know, if you have a 12 month contract then the landlord cant do much to get you out for five years.

I just signed a new one and insisted on 12 months to secure my interests, but also negotiated that I can leave at ANY time with 1 months notice and I have the option to buy at the end of the 5 year term.

Anyway... more about you. According to my book, the aw in Spain is very much on the side of the tenant. If you sign an 11 month contract and can prove that you have made the house your home then you would win in court if he tried to evict you. In other words the court would allow you to stay in the property. I think a lot of this comes down to what is fair. You signed an 11 month contract. This in its very nature, although common practice, would be seen in court that the landlord was trying to pull a fast one to ensure his rights at the cost of yours. You signed in good faith with the plan, i presume, to stay in the property long term and consequently you have made the house your home. Your children are in education, your life is settled in that house.

I think that he would have a very difficult time to throw you out. I had a company as a landlord once. I think this would if anything (and in my opinion also) go in your favour. If someone is estute enough to set up an SL to take advantage of the benefits for the sole purpose of renting the property then they know what they are doing and in court who would the judge favour... the big SL company who is clearly trying to do whats best for his pocket and to hell with everyone else, or the little blonde girl (sorry Jo... time for the "please mister, i didnt know, i just wanted a nice home for my little children" act) who knew no better and is just trying to make a home for her family?

You have paid everything on time, are not in breach and my gut says he would have a very difficuly time enforcin any actions to chuck you out. Obviously speak to a lawyer... problem in Spain is that all lawyers say different things and Judges in courts have differing opinions.... in the UK judges are time served lawyers, barristers etc who are highly trained and skilled in logical thinking. In Spain you get judges as young as their 20´s who have literally been to uni and studied "judging". Consequently outcomes in courts can vary. My abogado once was going to take someone to court on my behalf and she said that she would have to cross fingers about Judge...there were two possible judges, one would throw it out and the other would favour us... crazy but this is Spain after all!

I think though you need some professional help, but my GUT says that he would have a very difficult time in throwing you out. You may want to look at the book I mentioned, its available in Carrefour... the section is small, so dont buy it.. browse it in the isles!

I really hope it works out for you Jo.
Steve


----------



## donz

Nice one Steve, if you let me know the page number/s I could scan it in and send it to Jo if needed


----------



## xicoalc

donz said:


> Nice one Steve, if you let me know the page number/s I could scan it in and send it to Jo if needed


Sadly I don´t.. having just moved I am living out of boxes and the book is....well somewhere!


----------



## jojo

steve_in_spain said:


> Hi Jo
> 
> Sorry, only jsut seen this. Moved house myself and only recently got online. OK a few things. I worry about the owner not signing the contract, but I am guessing that the agent must have some written authority by the owner to sign on his behalf and I assume you have receipts for all the money you have paid (or bank records).
> 
> I refer to a book entitles "you and the law in Spain" which talks about these 11 month contracts. It is commonly known in the courts in Spain that many owners ask tenants to sign 11 month contracts because they believe that it will give them more rights (as they can chuck you out) after 11 months. As you probably know, if you have a 12 month contract then the landlord cant do much to get you out for five years.
> 
> I just signed a new one and insisted on 12 months to secure my interests, but also negotiated that I can leave at ANY time with 1 months notice and I have the option to buy at the end of the 5 year term.
> 
> Anyway... more about you. According to my book, the aw in Spain is very much on the side of the tenant. If you sign an 11 month contract and can prove that you have made the house your home then you would win in court if he tried to evict you. In other words the court would allow you to stay in the property. I think a lot of this comes down to what is fair. You signed an 11 month contract. This in its very nature, although common practice, would be seen in court that the landlord was trying to pull a fast one to ensure his rights at the cost of yours. You signed in good faith with the plan, i presume, to stay in the property long term and consequently you have made the house your home. Your children are in education, your life is settled in that house.
> 
> I think that he would have a very difficult time to throw you out. I had a company as a landlord once. I think this would if anything (and in my opinion also) go in your favour. If someone is estute enough to set up an SL to take advantage of the benefits for the sole purpose of renting the property then they know what they are doing and in court who would the judge favour... the big SL company who is clearly trying to do whats best for his pocket and to hell with everyone else, or the little blonde girl (sorry Jo... time for the "please mister, i didnt know, i just wanted a nice home for my little children" act) who knew no better and is just trying to make a home for her family?
> 
> You have paid everything on time, are not in breach and my gut says he would have a very difficuly time enforcin any actions to chuck you out. Obviously speak to a lawyer... problem in Spain is that all lawyers say different things and Judges in courts have differing opinions.... in the UK judges are time served lawyers, barristers etc who are highly trained and skilled in logical thinking. In Spain you get judges as young as their 20´s who have literally been to uni and studied "judging". Consequently outcomes in courts can vary. My abogado once was going to take someone to court on my behalf and she said that she would have to cross fingers about Judge...there were two possible judges, one would throw it out and the other would favour us... crazy but this is Spain after all!
> 
> I think though you need some professional help, but my GUT says that he would have a very difficult time in throwing you out. You may want to look at the book I mentioned, its available in Carrefour... the section is small, so dont buy it.. browse it in the isles!
> 
> I really hope it works out for you Jo.
> Steve




Jo xxxxxxxx


----------



## xicoalc

jojo said:


> Jo xxxxxxxx


Does your contract say VIVIENDA in the title by any chance Jo, or temp? if it says vivienda its yours for 5 years! Even if temp, as said if its yoru home i think he would have hard job to get you out!


----------



## jojo

The top of the contract says;

*CONTRATO DE ARRENDAMIENTO PARA USO DISTINTO DEL DE VIVIENDA-TEMPORADA*

Jo XXX


----------



## xicoalc

jojo said:


> The top of the contract says;
> 
> *CONTRATO DE ARRENDAMIENTO PARA USO DISTINTO DEL DE VIVIENDA-TEMPORADA*
> 
> Jo XXX


temporada is short term, but what the book tells me makes sense!
i see its a while since you posted this one... where at you up to now Jo?


----------



## xabiaxica

jojo said:


> The top of the contract says;
> 
> *CONTRATO DE ARRENDAMIENTO PARA USO DISTINTO DEL DE VIVIENDA-TEMPORADA*
> 
> Jo XXX


which loosely translated means it's not supposed to be your main home - all 11 month contracts that I have seen say that 

I had a 'conversation' with Mary recently about this

if push came to shove in court, the simple fact that it IS your only/main home would bring the court down on your side as long as you kept paying the rent & they kept accepting it

for as long as you wanted to stay................

if it IS your main home - then the contract would be deemed unsuitable

I imagine the agent knew that it is your main home before you sgned?


----------



## xicoalc

xabiachica said:


> which loosely translated means it's not supposed to be your main home - all 11 month contracts that I have seen say that
> 
> I had a 'conversation' with Mary recently about this
> 
> if push came to shove in court, the simple fact that it IS your only/main home would bring the court down on your side as long as you kept paying the rent & they kept accepting it
> 
> for as long as you wanted to stay................
> 
> if it IS your main home - then the contract would be deemed unsuitable
> 
> I imagine the agent knew that it is your main home before you sgned?


exactly, and therefore the professional agent and landlord (considering this is a pro landlord byt he fact he is an SL company) would be at blame for not advising correctly and allowing you to live permanently in what basically is nothing more than a holiday let... and hey presto mr judge lets you stay!


----------



## xabiaxica

steve_in_spain said:


> temporada is short term, but what the book tells me makes sense!
> i see its a while since you posted this one... where at you up to now Jo?


how's your spanish steve?

there's a link to the Ley Arrendamientos Urbanos in the useful links sticky


----------



## jojo

steve_in_spain said:


> temporada is short term, but what the book tells me makes sense!
> i see its a while since you posted this one... where at you up to now Jo?


My OH arrived back on Sunday and we went straight up to see the agent and my husband just said to her that our contract doesnt run out until 3rd October and we have no intention of moving out before then. She then said that she may have another property that may interest us and my husband told her that we're not planning on moving anywhere unless she made it financially worth our while. She said she would tell the owners - and then added "are you sure you dont want to buy the house???" My husband just said "of course we dont want to buy it"! Anyway, she has asked us to go into her office (uummmm - today actually - forgot!!) and she would show us details of this other house she may rent to us?! At least she's acknowledged the existence of the contract and now realises that I may be a dumb blonde (surely not lol), but my OH is neither dumb or blonde lol!!!!

I dont think we've heard the last of this as the owners dont seem the type to be beaten, afterall they came all the way over from France (where they live) to Benalmadena to tell us they want it back?

Jo xxx


----------



## xicoalc

xabiachica said:


> how's your spanish steve?
> 
> there's a link to the Ley Arrendamientos Urbanos in the useful links sticky


un poco xabia jaja.. improving every day! i will take a look... my OH is spanish so it helps!


----------



## xicoalc

jojo said:


> My OH arrived back on Sunday and we went straight up to see the agent and my husband just said to her that our contract doesnt run out until 3rd October and we have no intention of moving out before then. She then said that she may have another property that may interest us and my husband told her that we're not planning on moving anywhere unless she made it financially worth our while. She said she would tell the owners - and then added "are you sure you dont want to buy the house???" My husband just said "of course we dont want to buy it"! Anyway, she has asked us to go into her office (uummmm - today actually - forgot!!) and she would show us details of this other house she may rent to us?! At least she's acknowledged the existence of the contract and now realises that I may be a dumb blonde (surely not lol), but my OH is neither dumb or blonde lol!!!!
> 
> I dont think we've heard the last of this as the owners dont seem the type to be beaten, afterall they came all the way over from France (where they live) to Benalmadena to tell us they want it back?
> 
> Jo xxx


It would take them longer than October to take you to court anyway from what I know... landlord tenant cases can drag on for years and years! Just keep paying and refuse to move... if they try anything denounce them! Interesting to see what they offer you... you never know... someone might pay you to move! Oh and the cost of moving can run into the thousands.. not to mention time off work etc etc


----------



## jojo

steve_in_spain said:


> It would take them longer than October to take you to court anyway from what I know... landlord tenant cases can drag on for years and years! Just keep paying and refuse to move... if they try anything denounce them! Interesting to see what they offer you... you never know... someone might pay you to move! Oh and the cost of moving can run into the thousands.. not to mention time off work etc etc


 That was my argument, the cost and actually the hassle and I dont want to move! But we'll see. Apparently the law has changed recently on evictions and it can now be done in 30 days???? Summat like that - not that they have any cause to evict us! I was and still am a little worried that on my copy of the contract there is only my signature, but the agent has now admitted that she has seen it, so she obviously has the copy with both our signatures!

Jo xxx


----------



## xabiaxica

jojo said:


> That was my argument, the cost and actually the hassle and I dont want to move! But we'll see. Apparently the law has changed recently on evictions and it can now be done in 30 days???? Summat like that - not that they have any cause to evict us! I was and still am a little worried that on my copy of the contract there is only my signature, but the agent has now admitted that she has seen it, so she obviously has the copy with both our signatures!
> 
> Jo xxx


& that's the end of it all in any case......thay have to have cause!

I too have heard that some courts are moving quickly on eviction cases too


----------



## xicoalc

jojo said:


> That was my argument, the cost and actually the hassle and I dont want to move! But we'll see. Apparently the law has changed recently on evictions and it can now be done in 30 days???? Summat like that - not that they have any cause to evict us! I was and still am a little worried that on my copy of the contract there is only my signature, but the agent has now admitted that she has seen it, so she obviously has the copy with both our signatures!
> 
> Jo xxx


Like you said, to evict you then you have to be in breach of contract,,, ie not pay the rent, or cause problems for neighbours etc

You are up to date on everything and I imagine you keep the late night raves to a miimum so you have done nothing wrong... i cant see how he can evict you...even if the contract has a clause saying one month notice and your out, i dont see how it could be enforced because to the best of my knowledge (and i am no lawyer remember) but surely you have the right to stay for X amount of time.

As I said, my contract is one year, renewable for 5 years but totally at MY choice.. i can leave at any time with a months notice but unless i breach the terms there is nothing the landlord can do to get me out!

As for the fast track 30 days thing... i know little... but I do know in my last house the owner asked me to sign a seperate document which the agent told me was an insurance policy to cover a fast track eviction if i didnt pay... from what the agent told me (and this may be wrong) this is expensive to do, so unless they made you sign one of these policies also (and it was clearly an insurance policy, carbon copy job) then it would cost a fortune as far as i know for him to get you through the courts and with a very small chance of him winning!

Like i said before though, run it by a lawyer to be sure Jo.. then you can relax!


----------



## gus-lopez

jojo said:


> I dont think we've heard the last of this as the owners dont seem the type to be beaten, afterall they came all the way over from France (where they live) to Benalmadena to tell us they want it back?
> 
> Jo xxx


What you've written seems to bear out what I posted before. The owners have it up for sale & want to rent it out in the peak season . Someone's rented it to you whilst possibly telling the owners that you're ' trying before buying '. It would be nice to know what the owners ' Think' you are doing there ! I reckon they're being conned as well.


----------



## xicoalc

gus-lopez said:


> What you've written seems to bear out what I posted before. The owners have it up for sale & want to rent it out in the peak season . Someone's rented it to you whilst possibly telling the owners that you're ' trying before buying '. It would be nice to know what the owners ' Think' you are doing there ! I reckon they're being conned as well.


VERY VALID POINT GUS wouldnt surprise me if the owners are in the dark too! There are so many horror stories about bad agents!


----------



## xabiaxica

gus-lopez said:


> What you've written seems to bear out what I posted before. The owners have it up for sale & want to rent it out in the peak season . Someone's rented it to you whilst possibly telling the owners that you're ' trying before buying '. It would be nice to know what the owners ' Think' you are doing there ! I reckon they're being conned as well.


how did you get into our PMs??

that's almost exactly what I PMd before jojo posted!!!


----------



## mrypg9

xabiachica said:


> which loosely translated means it's not supposed to be your main home - all 11 month contracts that I have seen say that
> 
> I had a 'conversation' with Mary recently about this
> 
> if push came to shove in court, the simple fact that it IS your only/main home would bring the court down on your side as long as you kept paying the rent & they kept accepting it
> 
> for as long as you wanted to stay................
> 
> if it IS your main home - then the contract would be deemed unsuitable
> 
> I imagine the agent knew that it is your main home before you sgned?


We will have been in this house for twenty-two months on the 15th of this month.
Our landlord wants to sign an another 11 month contract - temporada.
As we no longer own property this really is our only residence.
So..am I right in thinking that if we wished we could stay here forever??
We only want to stay for a few more years though and he's happy for us to do that but it seems there's nothing he could do to chuck us out...
We pay our rent in advance in six-monthly chunks and look after the place...after all, it is our home as long as we're in Spain.
I was in the UK at the weekend and over dinner my son mentioned that a few years ago he helped a friend renovate some houses in a hamlet he bought near Cahors, Southern France, which he now rents out.
That's where we'll most likely be off to but not yet.
We like it here.
I flew yesterday from cold, wet, windy London to warm, sunny Malaga.
What's not to like?


----------



## xicoalc

mrypg9 said:


> We will have been in this house for twenty-two months on the 15th of this month.
> Our landlord wants to sign an another 11 month contract - temporada.
> As we no longer own property this really is our only residence.
> So..am I right in thinking that if we wished we could stay here forever??
> We only want to stay for a few more years though and he's happy for us to do that but it seems there's nothing he could do to chuck us out...
> We pay our rent in advance in six-monthly chunks and look after the place...after all, it is our home as long as we're in Spain.
> I was in the UK at the weekend and over dinner my son mentioned that a few years ago he helped a friend renovate some houses in a hamlet he bought near Cahors, Southern France, which he now rents out.
> That's where we'll most likely be off to but not yet.
> We like it here.
> I flew yesterday from cold, wet, windy London to warm, sunny Malaga.
> What's not to like?


As you have been there for more than 12 months you have the right now (in mu understanding) to remain there for upto 5 years and the landlord can only increase the rent by the rate of inflation. I would get legal advice before signing another 11 monther... i THINK you have granny rights with or without contract now to remain there. :clap2:


----------



## mrypg9

steve_in_spain said:


> As you have been there for more than 12 months you have the right now (in mu understanding) to remain there for upto 5 years and the landlord can only increase the rent by the rate of inflation. I would get legal advice before signing another 11 monther... i THINK you have granny rights with or without contract now to remain there. :clap2:


Errr.... what are 'granny rights', Steve?? Do they come with strings attached e.g. must be able to knit, play bingo, drink milk stout???


----------



## gus-lopez

xabiachica said:


> how did you get into our PMs??
> 
> that's almost exactly what I PMd before jojo posted!!!


Great minds think alike ! Or is that doubtful, untrusting, paranoid.... Hmmm!


----------



## gus-lopez

mrypg9 said:


> Errr.... what are 'granny rights', Steve?? Do they come with strings attached e.g. must be able to knit, play bingo, drink milk stout???


short for 'Grandfather rights '. I.E. When they introduced licences for heavy plant & machinery ( JCB's, excavators , etc , ) all those operating from previous years were granted licences automatically without the need to pass tests.

Grandfather clause - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## mrypg9

gus-lopez said:


> short for 'Grandfather rights '. I.E. When they introduced licences for heavy plant & machinery ( JCB's, excavators , etc , ) all those operating from previous years were granted licences automatically without the need to pass tests.
> 
> Grandfather clause - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Oh, I see....sort of..


----------



## xicoalc

mrypg9 said:


> Errr.... what are 'granny rights', Steve?? Do they come with strings attached e.g. must be able to knit, play bingo, drink milk stout???


yeah grandfather rights, that was the phrase i was looking for... its been a long day... although i think if you get a rocking chair and do a bit of knitting it would be a cold hearted so and so to evict you Mary!


----------



## mrypg9

steve_in_spain said:


> yeah grandfather rights, that was the phrase i was looking for... its been a long day... although i think if you get a rocking chair and do a bit of knitting it would be a cold hearted so and so to evict you Mary!


Yes...a poor, defenceless old woman....


----------



## mrypg9

Sorry, duplicated. Proof I'm losing me marbles:confused2:


----------



## jojo

mrypg9 said:


> Yes...a poor, defenceless old woman....


WHAT??? - you're none of those things Mary!!!!!!

Jo xxx


----------



## xicoalc

jojo said:


> WHAT??? - you're none of those things Mary!!!!!!
> 
> Jo xxx


:clap2::clap2::clap2:


----------



## gus-lopez

jojo said:


> WHAT??? - you're none of those things Mary!!!!!!
> 
> Jo xxx


So are you saying she is a battle axe ?  Looks like a hole you're digging Jo !


----------



## jojo

gus-lopez said:


> So are you saying she is a battle axe ?  Looks like a hole you're digging Jo !



:tape:

Jo xxx


----------



## mrypg9

jojo said:


> WHAT??? - you're none of those things Mary!!!!!!
> 
> Jo xxx


Blast!! You've blown my cover...
Although I am feeling a bit weak and feeble today....long weekend, much travelling. Takes it out of yer at my age.....


----------



## xicoalc

mrypg9 said:


> Blast!! You've blown my cover...
> Although I am feeling a bit weak and feeble today....long weekend, much travelling. Takes it out of yer at my age.....


This is the problem once you hit 27 Mary... you wait another couple of years until you are 30! Ay señor mio!


----------



## mrypg9

gus-lopez said:


> So are you saying she is a battle axe ?  Looks like a hole you're digging Jo !


Well, gus, I've got all me teeth and (last time I counted) all me marbles....
But I've got a mean old swing on me walking stick....


----------



## mrypg9

Landlord has just given us our third eleven-month contract but it has on it a clause saying something along the lines of us not working in Spain and has our address as my son's in the UK. Does this affect our granny rights?
We're not considering staying forever, just curious.


----------



## xicoalc

mrypg9 said:


> Landlord has just given us our third eleven-month contract but it has on it a clause saying something along the lines of us not working in Spain and has our address as my son's in the UK. Does this affect our granny rights?
> We're not considering staying forever, just curious.


Im not sure nanna! None of my contracts have had any UK address on them, but they have always been 12 month ones... The whole idea of a short term contract is that really it is a holiday let... stay for a while and move on... but as you have been there so long, im sure you could as part of the fixtures now!


----------



## mrypg9

steve_in_spain said:


> Im not sure nanna! None of my contracts have had any UK address on them, but they have always been 12 month ones... The whole idea of a short term contract is that really it is a holiday let... stay for a while and move on... but as you have been there so long, im sure you could as part of the fixtures now!


Our landlord was relieved when I said we wanted to stay. Apparently we're the only tenants who have paid the rent! I noticed the contract has a six-month renewal option.


----------



## xabiaxica

mrypg9 said:


> Landlord has just given us our third eleven-month contract but it has on it a clause saying something along the lines of us not working in Spain and has our address as my son's in the UK. Does this affect our granny rights?
> We're not considering staying forever, just curious.


If you have a UK address on it, then it's a way for them to claim that it isn't your main home - that you are using it just for holidays - a way - they think - of getting around the long term 'proper' contract

if however you can provein soemway that it is in fact your main home - on the padrón, signed on the resident list at that address - voting etc, then as far as I understand it, the contract simply isn't considered suitable in the legal sense

if it came to a court case then the implication is that a long term contract should have been used, & your rights under such a contract would be enforced


----------



## mrypg9

xabiachica said:


> If you have a UK address on it, then it's a way for them to claim that it isn't your main home - that you are using it just for holidays - a way - they think - of getting around the long term 'proper' contract
> 
> if however you can provein soemway that it is in fact your main home - on the padrón, signed on the resident list at that address - voting etc, then as far as I understand it, the contract simply isn't considered suitable in the legal sense
> 
> if it came to a court case then the implication is that a long term contract should have been used, & your rights under such a contract would be enforced


Thanks for that I gave my son's address but yes, we're on the padron etc. and will have lived at this address since May 2009. This will be our third contract.
As I said, we've got a great relationship with our landlord and wouldn't take advantage of him but it's good to know that we couldn't be thrown out that easily.


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## susanspain

Let us know how you get on JoJo. I know it is not a nice feeling, but I know if you were to stay on regardless, it will take the owner at least 6 months to get it all through court - and any judge will see that you have been paying rent the whole time, are good tenants and even if the agents did sign anything on owners behalf his gripe is with them - not you. 

(Plus it will cost landlord about Eu1,000).... 

Such a shame when you are model tenants (like ourselves  

Any chance the landlord/agents will find you another property if it came to it - at a discount of course! (Although I am sure you are not keen to deal with them again....)


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## jojo

susanspain said:


> Let us know how you get on JoJo. I know it is not a nice feeling, but I know if you were to stay on regardless, it will take the owner at least 6 months to get it all through court - and any judge will see that you have been paying rent the whole time, are good tenants and even if the agents did sign anything on owners behalf his gripe is with them - not you.
> 
> (Plus it will cost landlord about Eu1,000)....
> 
> Such a shame when you are model tenants (like ourselves
> 
> Any chance the landlord/agents will find you another property if it came to it - at a discount of course! (Although I am sure you are not keen to deal with them again....)


Theres also the fact that its obvious that neither our agent or the owner are claiming that we're even here - its all "cash" and our names are on nothing, which suggests they're not paying tax on us. I dont know if they'd want it to go too far!!

Anyway, the latest is - nothing more!? I went to the office and paid the rent a few days ago and nothing was mentioned! The last conversation on the matter was them asking us to leave for the summer, putting our stuff in one room and then returning in September! We told them no, but we may be prepared to leave at their request IF they give us adequate compensation!!!

So we'll see ?????????

Jo xxx


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## jojo

I've just had a phone call from the agent. she has some prospective buyers who want to view the house!? I've agreed to let them come, however, if they want to buy it I guess they'll have to buy us, the tenants too??????????????????? Is that how it works??

Jo xxx


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## lynn

jojo said:


> I've just had a phone call from the agent. she has some prospective buyers who want to view the house!? I've agreed to let them come, however, if they want to buy it I guess they'll have to buy us, the tenants too??????????????????? Is that how it works??
> 
> Jo xxx


I would say you are part of the furniture until the contract runs out.... Realistically, what are the chances of a sale going through before your contract ends anyway Jo? 
What is very clear is that you have little chance of renewing the contract when it ends, and will have to look for alternative accommodation. But at this stage, I wouldn't get too stressed.... and don't spend any time tidying up before viewings!!!


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## jojo

lynn said:


> I would say you are part of the furniture until the contract runs out.... Realistically, what are the chances of a sale going through before your contract ends anyway Jo?
> What is very clear is that you have little chance of renewing the contract when it ends, and will have to look for alternative accommodation. But at this stage, I wouldn't get too stressed.... and don't spend any time tidying up before viewings!!!


Its not a very nice way to live tho - luckily the housing market and the price they're asking suggests that it'll be a while before they sell this place and there havent been many viewings anyway. But could I have refused to let them come??? If they want us out before the contract runs out then they'll have to make it financially worth our while!!!!!!!

As for it being tidy, well I have my very fastidious daughter coming to stay this weekend, so I'm blitzing it as we speak lol!!! 

Jo xxx


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## lynn

jojo said:


> Its not a very nice way to live tho - luckily the housing market and the price they're asking suggests that it'll be a while before they sell this place and there havent been many viewings anyway. But could I have refused to let them come??? If they want us out before the contract runs out then they'll have to make it financially worth our while!!!!!!!
> 
> As for it being tidy, well I have my very fastidious daughter coming to stay this weekend, so I'm blitzing it as we speak lol!!!
> 
> Jo xxx


No, it isn't a very nice way to live, I agree. That's the down side of renting. As for refusing to let them come, well, I guess it depends what it says in your contract about access.... If it doesn't have a clause about giving access for viewings, then I guess you can just refuse. If you do have to give access, I'd make sure you only let them come at your convenience, and state that you wanted an agent with the client at all times (after all, it's your belongings in the property).


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## jojo

lynn said:


> No, it isn't a very nice way to live, I agree. That's the down side of renting. As for refusing to let them come, well, I guess it depends what it says in your contract about access.... If it doesn't have a clause about giving access for viewings, then I guess you can just refuse. If you do have to give access, I'd make sure you only let them come at your convenience, and state that you wanted an agent with the client at all times (after all, it's your belongings in the property).



There's no clause, so technically I could refuse. It'll be interesting if these people wish to buy the house, as I say, we'll want compensation if they want to break the contract!!!! 

Interestingly the agent specifically said that she WASNT coming with them hhhhhhhmmmmm - assuming they're spanish.... LORENA????? What are you doing tomorrow morning?? (private joke lol)

Jo xxx


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## jojo

Can anyone help me with my on going saga???? What happens if the owner of my rental property thinks that we've only signed a six month contract (thats apparently what they agreed with the agent), but the agent has authorised and we've signed an eleven month contract??

Jo xxx


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## lynn

jojo said:


> Can anyone help me with my on going saga???? What happens if the owner of my rental property thinks that we've only signed a six month contract (thats apparently what they agreed with the agent), but the agent has authorised and we've signed an eleven month contract??
> 
> Jo xxx


They really are piling on the pressure Jo aren't they! 
It sounds to me like it's time to take some professional legal advice....


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## xabiaxica

jojo said:


> Can anyone help me with my on going saga???? What happens if the owner of my rental property thinks that we've only signed a six month contract (thats apparently what they agreed with the agent), but the agent has authorised and we've signed an eleven month contract??
> 
> Jo xxx


as far as I can work out from what I remember.......................

the agent is screwed!!

you have signed in good faith - who was the contract with again? - who signed it?

get the owner to put in writing that the agent wasn't authorised

you can both then denounce the agent

you can stay til the end of your contract - or someone (the agent) can pay for you to leave

I do think it's getting into the realms of really needing proper legal advice now, though


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## mrnkar

They are coming up with more lame excuses to get you out before summer but it doesn't matter who thought what, your contract is still for 11 months so they can't throw you out. The stress of this must be terrible & probably at times you just want to give in and move but that's more stress. Hopefully a solution will be found soon to your benefit.


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## Caz.I

mrnkar said:


> They are coming up with more lame excuses to get you out before summer but it doesn't matter who thought what, your contract is still for 11 months so they can't throw you out. The stress of this must be terrible & probably at times you just want to give in and move but that's more stress. Hopefully a solution will be found soon to your benefit.


I totally agree, it sounds like they are clutching at straws to get her out. They know they cant do anything, so they are just trying any ruse they can. But, as said before, legal advice may be necessary or at least speaking to a professional who knows the ins and outs of rental contracts.


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## Pesky Wesky

Sorry you're STILL having problems with this Jo.
As everyone else has said, you're at the stage now where you need official papers, signed and stamped, to say that you can and will be staying at the house for the time stated in the contract. Give the bill directly to the agency.
You might even want to consider a "Orden de Alejamiento" (Restraining Order) to keep everyone at bay.


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## jojo

I've spoken to an abogado and she said its "coercion" and they are not allowed to contact me or to send viewers round, they're not even allowed to ask me to leave once - let alone keep hassling me! As long as I'm adhering to the contract then they can do nothing!

The next time my letting agent or landlords contact me I'm to give them the abogados number and we'll take it from there. In the meantime I have to produce a diary of events! But the abogado thinks that once they know that I have contacted one, they'll back down as she's sure (and so am I) that they dont pay tax on the rent received and the letting agent could/would get into serious trouble

I wish I'd done this before now, it would have saved me a lot of stress

Jo xxx


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## Pesky Wesky

jojo said:


> I've spoken to an abogado and she said its "coercion" and they are not allowed to contact me or to send viewers round, they're not even allowed to ask me to leave once - let alone keep hassling me! As long as I'm adhering to the contract then they can do nothing!
> 
> The next time my letting agent or landlords contact me I'm to give them the abogados number and we'll take it from there. In the meantime I have to produce a diary of events! But the abogado thinks that once they know that I have contacted one, they'll back down as she's sure (and so am I) that they dont pay tax on the rent received and the letting agent could/would get into serious trouble
> 
> I wish I'd done this before now, it would have saved me a lot of stress
> 
> Jo xxx


Well, hope this is the answer for you.

You might want to look on internet to see if the property is actually being advertised as a holiday let at this moment...


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## xabiaxica

Pesky Wesky said:


> Well, hope this is the answer for you.
> 
> You might want to look on internet to see if the property is actually being advertised as a holiday let at this moment...


what a good idea!!


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## jojo

Pesky Wesky said:


> Well, hope this is the answer for you.
> 
> You might want to look on internet to see if the property is actually being advertised as a holiday let at this moment...



ooooooohhhhh!!! :eyebrows: .... I'm just nipping off to "surf the net" :ranger:

Jo xxxx


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## mrnkar

jojo said:


> I've spoken to an abogado and she said its "coercion" and they are not allowed to contact me or to send viewers round, they're not even allowed to ask me to leave once - let alone keep hassling me! As long as I'm adhering to the contract then they can do nothing!
> 
> The next time my letting agent or landlords contact me I'm to give them the abogados number and we'll take it from there. In the meantime I have to produce a diary of events! But the abogado thinks that once they know that I have contacted one, they'll back down as she's sure (and so am I) that they dont pay tax on the rent received and the letting agent could/would get into serious trouble
> 
> I wish I'd done this before now, it would have saved me a lot of stress
> 
> Jo xxx


That sure sorts them out. Good on you for getting it sorted. I too often wondered if it was being advertised to let.


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## jojo

The latest and I am exploding with rage!! An E-mail from the french agent of my property! Its so untrue, but she sent this to me and the owners - I've never known anyone to print bare faced lies like this!!!

To Jo : First of all, you have never paid any fee to me. YOU TELL LIES. maybe you pay to your agent who was an english man : Robert. I can tell you I never receive fee from you and YOU NEVER COME TO MY OFFICE TO SIGN CONTRACT. You did it in a very singular way with Robert but he forgot to sign, so you are the only one who have signed your own contract. We don't know when and even if Robert agree with you on this dates !!!!!! I told him the house was for a 6 months contract and for sale, so I don't understand that suddenly, when you decide you are going to stay till september, you produce a contract for 11 months. A few weeks before, when I asked you for a copy of your contract because I could see it was misunderstanding, you did not want to give it to me.....After 2 months that I had to go and collect the rent at your house, you mention you were not feeling confortable paying at home, so I gave you my office address because you had no idea where it was. Then you start changing your mind every time I saw you : once you wanted to buy, once to go to England, another time to go to another house in Torremuelle... You said you were going after your son's exam !!! the only thing common was trying to find excuses not to pay or to pay very late. Today, MM. BALLE inform me that you have still not paid June's rent who is due from the day 3rd of each month.
You have now the number of account in BBVA of the owner so please, put them the rent!

Can you write clearly to the owner the date that you are going from their house, so they can organize their summer
and their arrival here. Thank you


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## xabiaxica

jojo said:


> The latest and I am exploding with rage!! An E-mail from the french agent of my property! Its so untrue, but she sent this to me and the owners - I've never known anyone to print bare faced lies like this!!!
> 
> To Jo : First of all, you have never paid any fee to me. YOU TELL LIES. maybe you pay to your agent who was an english man : Robert. I can tell you I never receive fee from you and YOU NEVER COME TO MY OFFICE TO SIGN CONTRACT. You did it in a very singular way with Robert but he forgot to sign, so you are the only one who have signed your own contract. We don't know when and even if Robert agree with you on this dates !!!!!! I told him the house was for a 6 months contract and for sale, so I don't understand that suddenly, when you decide you are going to stay till september, you produce a contract for 11 months. A few weeks before, when I asked you for a copy of your contract because I could see it was misunderstanding, you did not want to give it to me.....After 2 months that I had to go and collect the rent at your house, you mention you were not feeling confortable paying at home, so I gave you my office address because you had no idea where it was. Then you start changing your mind every time I saw you : once you wanted to buy, once to go to England, another time to go to another house in Torremuelle... You said you were going after your son's exam !!! the only thing common was trying to find excuses not to pay or to pay very late. Today, MM. BALLE inform me that you have still not paid June's rent who is due from the day 3rd of each month.
> You have now the number of account in BBVA of the owner so please, put them the rent!
> 
> Can you write clearly to the owner the date that you are going from their house, so they can organize their summer
> and their arrival here. Thank you


HA!!

I hope you told her you're staying til October


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## mepossem

Ok, I' ve only read your initial post and left the rest of replies without reading them.

My recommendation is simple

a) stay till the end of september - if he wants, he can go to court (should take him half a year ....)

b) he cannot move in, go to the police etc. to move you out without a court order

c) make SURE you 'use up' the fianza in lieu of rental payment, as you are unlikely to see it back.

d) you have NOT received even a recorded letter? And you are worried? Is this a joke or what?

Just this afternoon checked prices in Alicante - rental prices have fallen to less than half. Why are you worried?

/SNIP/

Mark


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## mepossem

oh and reading some more info here: if they insist the contract was only for 6 months, you are an 'ocupa'. don t pay rent, and let them go to the courts./SNIP/


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## mrypg9

jojo said:


> The latest and I am exploding with rage!! An E-mail from the french agent of my property! Its so untrue, but she sent this to me and the owners - I've never known anyone to print bare faced lies like this!!!
> 
> To Jo : First of all, you have never paid any fee to me. YOU TELL LIES. maybe you pay to your agent who was an english man : Robert. I can tell you I never receive fee from you and YOU NEVER COME TO MY OFFICE TO SIGN CONTRACT. You did it in a very singular way with Robert but he forgot to sign, so you are the only one who have signed your own contract. We don't know when and even if Robert agree with you on this dates !!!!!! I told him the house was for a 6 months contract and for sale, so I don't understand that suddenly, when you decide you are going to stay till september, you produce a contract for 11 months. A few weeks before, when I asked you for a copy of your contract because I could see it was misunderstanding, you did not want to give it to me.....After 2 months that I had to go and collect the rent at your house, you mention you were not feeling confortable paying at home, so I gave you my office address because you had no idea where it was. Then you start changing your mind every time I saw you : once you wanted to buy, once to go to England, another time to go to another house in Torremuelle... You said you were going after your son's exam !!! the only thing common was trying to find excuses not to pay or to pay very late. Today, MM. BALLE inform me that you have still not paid June's rent who is due from the day 3rd of each month.
> You have now the number of account in BBVA of the owner so please, put them the rent!
> 
> Can you write clearly to the owner the date that you are going from their house, so they can organize their summer
> and their arrival here. Thank you



Outrageous!!!

If you need moral and physical support, we'll turn up with Our Little Azor. I'm sure others would rally round.
I'm sure you have evidence of payment so you can tell them to stuff their letters where the sun don't shine...


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## xabiaxica

mrypg9 said:


> Outrageous!!!
> 
> If you need moral and physical support, we'll turn up with Our Little Azor. I'm sure others would rally round.
> I'm sure you have evidence of payment so you can tell them to stuff their letters where the sun don't shine...


I'd LOVE to see that!!

sometimes I wish I lived down that way............


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## mrypg9

xabiachica said:


> I'd LOVE to see that!!
> 
> sometimes I wish I lived down that way............


We are a mere forty-five minutes' drive away........
Seriously, though, Jo is on her own for much of the time and although she is a tough, smart cookie there is strength in numbers.
Although I'm off to London next week and then to Prague for a few days thenm back to London for a Conference.
I haven't been back to Prague since we left over two years ago. Should be an interesting visit.
I'm looking forward to seeing old friends but apprehensive about being faced with several days of pork, dumplings and sauerkraut, goulash and dumplings, beef stew and dumplings, fruit-filled dumplings, meat-filled dumplings, plain dumplings....


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## jojo

I think my problem is all over. I received this from the owners in response to my "reply" e-mail to the agent!!

"nous sommes fatigués de cette situation nous vous demandons simplement de nous payer le loyer et les charges que je vous ai déjà indiqués
vous avez nos coordonnées bancaires. en ce qui concerne le dépôt de garantie nicole reconnait qu'elle l'a et qu'il vous sera reversé quand l'état
des lieux sera fait votre contrat se terminant début octobre j'espère que vous tiendrez vos engagements
Mr BALLE"

Which roughly translated means, "We're tired of this situation, just pay the damn rent into our bank account, Nicole acknowledges that she'll give you the deposit back when you leave the house in good condition when your contract ends in October"

Shame it coulda been fun having my street full of forum members!! It is about time I saw mrypg and HLA - Nicole, the agent up the road doesnt like dogs lol!!!!!!!!


Jo xxx


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## Stravinsky

jojo said:


> I think my problem is all over. I received this from the owners in response to my "reply" e-mail to the agent!!
> 
> "nous sommes fatigués de cette situation nous vous demandons simplement de nous payer le loyer et les charges que je vous ai déjà indiqués
> vous avez nos coordonnées bancaires. en ce qui concerne le dépôt de garantie nicole reconnait qu'elle l'a et qu'il vous sera reversé quand l'état
> des lieux sera fait votre contrat se terminant début octobre j'espère que vous tiendrez vos engagements
> Mr BALLE"
> 
> Shame it coulda been fun having my street full of forum members!! It is about time I saw mrypg and HLA - Nicole, the agent up the road doesnt like dogs lol!!!!!!!!
> 
> 
> Jo xxx


Thats as clear as mud to me then


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## mepossem

Much ado about nothing  then ...

Do you live in Spain?


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## xabiaxica

mrypg9 said:


> We are a mere forty-five minutes' drive away........
> Seriously, though, Jo is on her own for much of the time and although she is a tough, smart cookie there is strength in numbers.
> Although I'm off to London next week and then to Prague for a few days thenm back to London for a Conference.
> I haven't been back to Prague since we left over two years ago. Should be an interesting visit.
> I'm looking forward to seeing old friends but apprehensive about being faced with several days of pork, dumplings and sauerkraut, goulash and dumplings, beef stew and dumplings, fruit-filled dumplings, meat-filled dumplings, plain dumplings....


I love dumplings


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## Alcalaina

jojo said:


> I think my problem is all over. I received this from the owners in response to my "reply" e-mail to the agent!!
> 
> "nous sommes fatigués de cette situation nous vous demandons simplement de nous payer le loyer et les charges que je vous ai déjà indiqués
> vous avez nos coordonnées bancaires. en ce qui concerne le dépôt de garantie nicole reconnait qu'elle l'a et qu'il vous sera reversé quand l'état
> des lieux sera fait votre contrat se terminant début octobre j'espère que vous tiendrez vos engagements
> Mr BALLE"
> 
> Shame it coulda been fun having my street full of forum members!! It is about time I saw mrypg and HLA - Nicole, the agent up the road doesnt like dogs lol!!!!!!!!
> 
> Jo xxx


Well, if there's a mere sniff of harassment in future, go and make a denuncia!

Maybe Mrypg can send you a tape of OLA barking, which you can play from just inside the door ...


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## Stravinsky

xabiachica said:


> I love dumplings


What an admission


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## mepossem

ok, off to the swimming pool  glad it was solved - in any case, you never got a recorded letter, no official notice etc. - enjoy the day and that's basically it.


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## jojo

Stravinsky said:


> Thats as clear as mud to me then


Which roughly translated means, "We're tired of this situation, just pay the damn rent into our bank account, Nicole acknowledges that she'll give you the deposit back when you leave the house in good condition when your contract ends in October"





Jo xxx


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## Stravinsky

jojo said:


> Which roughly translated means, "We're tired of this situation, just pay the damn rent into our bank account, Nicole acknowledges that she'll give you the deposit back when you leave the house in good condition when your contract ends in October"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jo xxx



The French, eh!?
What can you say

Decided for sure what you are going to do long term then?


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## jojo

Stravinsky said:


> The French, eh!?
> What can you say
> 
> Decided for sure what you are going to do long term then?


Yes - dont ask :rofl: :tape:

Jo xxx


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## Stravinsky

jojo said:


> Yes - dont ask :rofl: :tape:
> 
> Jo xxx


I wont ask then


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## MaidenScotland

When it´s time to hand over your keys an independent witness on the condition of the villa might be a wise move.


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## gus-lopez

MaidenScotland said:


> When it´s time to hand over your keys an independent witness on the condition of the villa might be a wise move.


& get someone to surrepticiously photograph the agent in the house when she comes to check & it would be a good idea to record the whole conversation , preferably with a mobile phone .:eyebrows:


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## LuLu89

If you sit tight they can't do anything. Even if they go to the courts it will take 6-8months and that is the best they can do. I would stand your ground and move out at the end of the contract.


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