# UPDATED IMMIGRATION PROCEDURES, May, 2010



## RVGRINGO

Mexico’s National Immigration Institute (INM) has announced a range of amendments to its immigration and internment procedures to be implemented starting May 1, 2010. Although the amendments do not significantly alter the core rules and regulations which underpin current immigration law, the changes will make the paperwork and procedures less complicated for foreigners wishing to enter Mexico; particularly for those coming to Mexico to do business and those who wish to live, work or retire here.

The new entry form is the FMM, or Forma Migratoria Multiple.

The new FMM will cover visits of up to 180 days for tourists, business visitors and technical visitors, with sections on the form for each category type. The FMM must be surrendered when leaving Mexico; it is a single entry document.

The new FMM forms were introduced on May 1 and the new FMM-based procedures will be available to visitors who are passport holders of countries eligible for entry to Mexico. 

For people who are staying in Mexico longer than 180 days using still current FM3 or FM2 visas, the current paper booklets will be replaced with plastic cards, as a 'credencial' and we will no longer need to change address, change of business activity, marital status, et al, annotated on the document proper. Resident foreigners will still be required to file notification of changes in personal and professional circumstances, but the procedures which required the surrender of the document to the institute for a period of up to several weeks while changes were annotated will no longer be required. You will be able to accomplish those changes online.

Mexican consulates outside Mexico can no longer issue FM3 visas. In fact, the terms FM2 and FM3 don't appear on the new 'credencial'. They will, instead, issue a sticker that is placed in the applicant’s passport and the applicant will then need to enter Mexico within 365 days and obtain the new FMM at the entry point.

In summary:

Tourists: If you enter Mexico as a tourist, your entry will remain virtually unaffected by the new procedures. You will simply need to complete the ‘Tourist’ section of the new FMM visitor’s card at the port of entry, and when you enter the country you will be granted leave to remain in Mexico for no longer than 180 calendar days. There are no extensions for an FMM and you must leave the country before it expires, turning in the exit part of the FMM form and taking your vehicle if you brought one into Mexico.

Business Visitors: If you visit (or plan to visit) Mexico to undertake business activities or to undertake work in Mexico for periods of 180 days or less, you will enjoy greater flexibility by way of these new arrangements. There are no extensions for an FMM and you must leave the country before it expires, taking your vehicle, if you brought one into Mexico. 

Long Term Visitors and Residents: If you wish to remain in Mexico for longer than six months, there are some welcome simplifications being introduced to the 'no inmigrante' and 'inmigrante' visa procedures, especially in relation to doing-away with the process of surrender and re-issue of paper booklets.
To apply, you must do so within 30 days of the expiration date of your FMM. Otherwise, you must leave Mexico and start over again or, for a short time, apply late and pay a daily fine for the number of days that your FMM has expired. This is not recommended and you cannot be forgiven if exceeding six months.
The application for your initial credencial, annual renewals, changes of address or other situation, must be done online, in Spanish (they hope for other languages someday) at www.INAMI.gob.mx where you may complete the necessary forms and go to an official INM office, usually in the capital of your state or a major port. There, upon presentation of your printed forms, or the code number provided online, you can obtain the SAT forms (not yet online), pay the fee at the nearest bank, return and present all of the necessary forms. If incorrect, you start all over again. They cannot assist you with corrections, other to tell you what is wrong. Once your forms are accepted, you will be given a letter with an online link to determine the date to return for your new 'credencial' card (instead of the previous booklet forms).
The process is interactive, in that you select each step from the choices given on the website, and you will be led to each successive step. You may need a translator to assist you if you don't have basic Spanish. You may also authorize another person to present your documents at the INM office.
If you don't have a CURP number to enter (also required to register cell phones), you must have your passport, even for renewals.
You will also need five 'infantile' size photographs; 3 front view without glasses or earrings and 2 right profile views.
There are no changes in the current fees.

The new website is:

Instituto Nacional de Migración http://www.inm.gob.mx/


----------



## grndy85

What are the requirements for FM3 and FM2, monthly income as well? And also, do you know how it works regarding marriage if my partner and I were to get married?


----------



## RVGRINGO

The income requirements and proofs seem to be in flux at the moment, since the changes on May 1st. As such, I would suggest that you go to the INM website, given in the first post, where you will find up to date information on the requirements as you go through the process.
Basically, I think it is about $1200 USD per month for the FM3 and about 50% more for the FM2. That does not change, if married, and applying as a spouse, but they may then include your husbands income from a legitimate, tax paying company; something you can prove. Then, after two years, you may apply for naturalization as the spouse of a Mexican.

One welcome change is that proofs of income are now only required at first and fifth applications, not annual renewals.
The seemed unsure about the lower requirements for those on an FM3 and owning a home in Mexico, but they think it still applies.


----------



## beauxmex

*Immigration: new procedures, May 1, 2010.*

It seems pretty clear that the "new procedures" includes the authorities not showing up in Chapala on Wednesday mornings anymore. I understand that this is the 4th Wednesday in a row. I know they will try to charge an extra fee because the fm3 was not renewed in a timely manner!


----------



## RVGRINGO

We have been informed that the approval of an official INM office for Chapala is a fact. However, funding and finding a suitable office are delaying the process for an indefinite time of, "A few months or, maybe, six months."
In the meantime, INM cannot handle the new procedures in Chapala and we must go to Guadalajara, on the fourth floor of the federal building at Aldama #500, between 9AM and 1PM.

Yes, there are fines for being late, even though INM is still in a 'learning curve' with the new procedures.


----------



## Gatita

I want to get my FM3. I have owned a vacation home in MX. for 10 years. I am now moving permanently. I am going down next week to buy my permanent home. I am wondering if it would be easier to start the process while in Mexico. Then I could complete it when I go down to sign the closing papers. Do you think that would work? It is a long drive to the consulate here in Portland, Oregon and it sounds like I may have to make more than one trip. It sounded bad enough having to stop at the capital for an apostile (sp?) stamp and then on to the consulate. I checked it out in Bucerias last year and it seemed easier but I wasn't going to be there long enough to complete the process. Now since I am going back before I move I thought it might work. I need the FM3 to get my belongings moved. Any feedback is greatly appreciated.


----------



## beauxmex

The problem is: who and where do you show it? They have not shown up in Chapala for the last 5 wks so you must either hire someone or try to figure the procedures (and location) in Guadalajara.


----------



## RVGRINGO

You are correct, Gatita. Your present house will suffice to get your 'credencial'. You must apply in Mexico and will have to go to Guadalajara, once you have printed out your documents and collected the other documents necessary for your particular status. That must be done within a certain number of days (10 or 30 ????) from the time you apply online; otherwise, your data and registration number will vanish from the system and you'll have to start over again. As such, I suggest that you do it when you will have time to complete the application and present it in Guadalajara, then wait a couple of weeks more to go back for the completed 'credencial'. Once that is done, you can come and go freely and arrange for your shipment.
Remember, Immigration is not concerned with your household goods or your vehicle. Those are strictly Aduana and Bancercito affairs. A good example is that one might be forgiven for a short time, under certain circumstances, for being out of the country when a visa expires. They could re-enter and apply for late renewal, maybe with a small fine. However, they can't bring their vehicle into Mexico with an expired visa and it is illegal to get an FMM to try to get around that situation. One may not have two immigration credentials at the same time and the system is now computerized.


----------



## RVGRINGO

Beauxmex,
Please read the entire thread and updates.
You must apply online for any immigration procedure. The process will create the appropriate list of requirements for your application. At present, you must do it in Spanish. Once done and printed, you'll have to go to Aldama #500, Guadalajara, fourth floor and present the file number you will have been given online, along with the required documents (for the moment, you'll have to get SAT forms and run out to pay at a bank, then return) for your procedure. Then, they'll give you a form with a computer link to trace the progress of your application. When it is ready, usually in a matter of days, you will go back to Guadalajara, with the necessary pictures, and they'll create your 'credencial' and give it to you. Be sure to mark your calendar for next year's renewal and repeat the process. Maybe, in that time, we'll have a Chapala office and the online process will have more English pages. It is a work in progress.


----------



## Demonio

Gatita, you can apply for your new FM# at a MX consulate abroad or at INM in MX. Either way you MUST begin the process online and print out the initial application and record the "Número de Pieza" (file number) that is generated. If you apply at a consulate you still need to go to INM in MX to complete the process since consulates are no longer permitted to issue FM# (they can only process the application and issue a visa that facilitates obtaining the FM# in MX). Once you completed the online application, you have 90 DAYS to go to a MX consulate or IMN in MX to compete the process, otherwise your application and file number are void and you must complete another online application.


----------



## RVGRINGO

Glad to see the clarification of the '90 Days' limit from online application.
What purpose is served by applying at a consulate? Will it allow a 'menaje de casa' to be started without actually having an immigration credential?


----------



## Demonio

I think it just allows you to complete most of the paper work before entering MX. How much you can do there is still unknown to me. I'm in the States right now and considered applying in L.A., but was turned off by the requirement to complete the process within 30 days upon entering MX. What if something happens and you can't perform within that time? I think I'll opt to enter on a 180 day FMM, with my car, and apply at INM in MX.


----------



## RVGRINGO

Yes, that 30 day requirement is a problem. That's why I recommend doing as you plan; enter on an FMM and have more time to complete the process in Mexico.


----------



## Demonio

A lengthy debate occurred on another board when someone posted that when you enter MX on a 180 day tourist FMM and intend to apply for an FM#, you have to declare your intentions to INM and then you'll only have 30 days to complete the process. Of course that only applies to those who initiate the process at a MX consulate abroad and obtain a 365 day visa because obtaining their FM# at INM in MX is then guaranteed. The following is verbatim from the INM website and my translation of same:

Toda vez que cuentas con una legal estancia en el país acreditado mediante una forma migratoria la cual se encuentra vigente el trámite correspondiente es el cambio de tu característica migratoria.

Este trámite lo podrás realizar en la oficina del INM cercana a tu lugar de residencia.

*Whenever you are legally in the country (MX) accredited by a valid migration form (like a tourist FMM), the appropriate action is to change your migration status.

This action can be accomplished at the INM office closest to your residence. *


----------



## beauxmex

Its more complicated than you think because I have had the fm3 for 5 years now and, becuse of that, I must either leave the country for a day or go to INM in Guad and sign a letter stating that this is my home and I cannot travel to the US. This is all retaliation for the stupid laws that the US (Arizona) and Canada have been enacting.


----------



## Southbound

beauxmex said:


> Its more complicated than you think because I have had the fm3 for 5 years now and, becuse of that, I must either leave the country for a day or go to INM in Guad and sign a letter stating that this is my home and I cannot travel to the US. This is all retaliation for the stupid laws that the US (Arizona) and Canada have been enacting.


Beauxmex, for all of us trying to keep up with the Visa changes from here in the U.S., please explain where it is stated that you cannot return to the U.S.? This seems a bit obfuscated and a some clarification would help! Are you still talking about an FM3, or would it possibly be an FM2?
Thanks


----------



## beauxmex

Its an fm3. Its a new twist the lawyers tell me. The fm3 is good for 5 yrs and must be renewed each year on the same date (for me, May 29. The booklet is now done, used, finished. Now I am told I must return to the states and come down on a tourist visa and the start over on a new fm3 OR go to INM in Guadalajara and sign a letter of some sort stating that this is my home (Mexico) and that I am unable to return to the states.
It is not that I am not permitted to return to the states. According to their new rules, I am supposed to return but I don't want to and really don't want the hassle.
I hope this is clearer.


----------



## Southbound

Thanks for the reply Beauxmex, it would seem that the simpler of the two, assuming that you do want to stay in Mexico, would be to just make a trip to Guadalajara and sign the papers. It would certainly be less trouble than a trip to the border, would it not?
Please pardon if you feel that I still do not have the larger picture of your situation.


----------



## beauxmex

****! My reply disappeared. YES! I am going to INM on Monday and hope they will accept the fact that I am unable to return to the us.


----------



## RVGRINGO

Beauxmex,
Before going to INM, please visit the INM online application procedure and follow the directions to get a new credential. Since your original FM3 is about to expire, you will find that your specific list of requirements will require proof of income and a brief note stating that you have resided in Mexico on your own resources for X years and wish to continue to do so.
As long as you do this now, before it actually expires, you will not have to leave the country. It seems your lawyer is even more confused than most. If you don't have enough Spanish to complete the form, just have a bilingual friend help. Otherwise, in San Antonio Tlayacapan, you could visit Marielena at the 'Novidades' store near Mario's restaurant; where she will end your worries and do all of your paperwork, including that letter, for about $100 pesos. She's the only 'agent' that I noticed at the informational meeting with INM in Chapala last week.


----------



## Barbara S

*for MAC users*

You must use Firefox to fill out the form on your Mac, not Safari. You must close Safari first because you will have to download an Adobe application. You will also have
to disable the pop-up blocker. After that it's a piece of cake. Make sure you have a printer because the goal is to produce a print-out with a bar code to take to immigration.


----------



## Barbara S

I'm running with Snow Leopard OS X 10.6.3 
All I know is that the form was not accepted when I used Safari. I didn't close Safari when I went to Firefox. I could not complete the form in Firefox without downloading the form in Adobe, which for some reason required I close Safari first. 

I'm not saying Adobe doesn't work with Safari, but rather that Safari is incompatible with the immigration form. Apparently the Adobe for Firefox differs from the Adobe for Safari.


----------



## BryansRose

Thanks for posting this, RVGringo. I'd heard about the new cards but not about all the rest.


----------



## MJB5293

just completed tyhe new F 2 and it was i must say easer then the old f_3 visa


----------



## pvtexmex

*about the new processes*

What exactly does the term "within 30 days" mean? My FM2 has an expiration date of Aug. 19, 2010. I take this to mean I should begin my renewal before July 19. How soon before July 19 can I do this? I already have plans to be in the US from July 7 to July 21. Can I start now? I assume I will be surrendering my FM2 booklet and getting an FMM ID card with the appropriate sticker. How long does this take? Is the processing for FM2s still done in Mexico City as before. Is the process for getting the inmigrado still the same, i.e., is the fifth and last renewal of the FM2 (inmigrante) still the application for inmigrado status?


----------



## RVGRINGO

You must apply within the thirty days prior to expiration of your present immigration document. In your case; between July 20 and August 19. Therefore, you cannot start before July 20th. You must start the process online.
You will surrender your current FM2 booklet with the other documents required for your particular status, and cannot leave Mexico without special permission and a letter from INM.
After presenting your documents, you will be given a number and a password to use online to check the status of your application.
Application for 'inmigrado' is done through the same online site after five years as 'inmigrante', unless that time is shortened by relationship to a Mexican, etc.
I understand that you can present your documents at the PV INM offices, avoiding a trip to Guadalajara. Check with them, to be sure.

Check Rolly's site for more details: http://rollybrook.com/inm-forms.htm


----------



## 13JohnnyL

I applied for an FM3 at the consulate in Chicago on May 18th. Took in my letters of reference, bank statements, etc. On May 20th I received a booklet which states that I am No Inmigratne Visitante Rentista for 365 days. However, they also put card in the back of my passport that is rather ambiguous. It states validity from 20 May to 20 November but also says it´s good for 365 days. Going to immigration in Puebla to get this clarified. Will let you know what happens


----------



## pvtexmex

Interesting. I think, though I am not sure, that the problem is that you applied for your FM3 ( no inmigrante) in the US. I believe that with the new procedures, you must do this in Mexico. I will be interested to know how this turns out.


----------



## RVGRINGO

For what it is worth; I think the consulates are not aware of the new procedures since May 1st. Your 'booklet' may be accepted, or it may be invalid. The new INM procedure requires that you apply online, print the forms, etc., then present them at an INM office.

Those dates, ending November 20th are the time frame within which you must enter Mexico. Your FM3 must then be registered in Mexico. My guess is that you will have to go through the process again.


----------



## MJB5293

*fm2 im done*

I just got my F2 today the process went well with out too much trouble except for the following.
You cannot print the form once you complete the form go to the immigration office and give them the number that you were provided with. They will print it and tell you what you need. 
Also they will tell you to check the web in 8 days using the number, don’t just go back to the office, as the web does not show anything. I called the number that was provided on the web the man who spoke English said they were having trouble. Cost 2800, I live in Querétaro and this office is very nice over worked but will respond. I talked to the lady and she told me that most applying are from the USA, Spain, Cuba and Columbia. 
Next it was off the, Aduna (police for importation) for my car not a problem with the new immigration card form they just stamp your paper and your good no cost, you will need to have a Xerox copy of your title registration and FM2 or 3, they keep this in a file in case you have a problem 
Also I had a copy of rule 106 they said keep a copy of it as the police do not know this rule very well 
all toll it took 10 days im good to go 




pvtexmex said:


> Interesting. I think, though I am not sure, that the problem is that you applied for your FM3 ( no inmigrante) in the US. I believe that with the new procedures, you must do this in Mexico. I will be interested to know how this turns out.


----------



## RVGRINGO

To be able to print the forms, you must first hit the 'save' button. Otherwise, everything that you have entered will vanish. That said, not all browsers seem to be supported by the system. It is still a 'work in progress'.
It is true that they will not deal with you unless you have all the forms & documents in hand when you go to the INM offices, but if you couldn't print, they'll do that for you at this point.


----------



## MJB5293

*not true*

i went to imagration with just the number and they printed all the forms 
got my f2 in 20 days


----------



## Johang

" To apply, you must do so within 30 days of the expiration date of your FMM."

I believe this should be within 30 days of the issuance of your FMM. i.e. if your FMM is more than 30 days old you cannot use it to get an FM3 or an FM2. It is an important distinction so please correct me if I am wrong.

".....you can obtain the SAT forms (not yet online),...."

You actually enter the data into the Formato Basico on a computer system at the office. Some offices will accept the printed formato bassico for some procedures. You can fill it out on line in to the Spanish form ( English version version of it also exists) (address when I am allowed to post URL's) and it is a great help to have it printed out when you arrive at the INM office even if you have to reenter it.

"You may need a translator to assist you if you don't have basic Spanish."

Rolly's web site ( a couple of threads below this one) explains the options in text form to the extent that you should not need an interpreter and Johan's web site gives you screen shots of each option that anyone can follow without an interpreter.

"...you will be given a letter with an online link to determine the date "....

And a password. They tell you to check it in 10 days to see the status of your application.


----------



## MangoMike

*Having my FM3 Ducks in a row.*

I've read countless posts about how to get an FM3. Here's what I think I know.
1) Enter Mexico on an FMT and then convert to FM3 while in México and definitely with at least 30 days remaining on the FMT. 2) Fill out the INM Application form online; print out the completed form and be certain to write down the application ID number for the INM folks at my office (Mazatlán in my case). 3) Fill out the "Formato Básico" as they will need that at INM as well. I found that on RollyBrooks site. 4) Take the forms; ID numbers; Original FMTs; Passports; 3 most current and original bank statements proving income; Proof of México address like originals of phone or electric bills, lease or deed; Birth Certificate; Marriage License; Pictures front and profile with no jewelry or glasses and hair off the forehead and ears; Some Pesos for the fee; and possibly some sort of letter stating your intentions (like, .. We are retired, and financially secure and want to live in México full time) translated into Español. 
Please let me know if any of this is wrong. Also I'm unclear as to whether we need our Marriage Certificate with apostille or just certified? My wife does not have proof of income required on her own so I will be qualifying her based on mine. We were married in California and I'm having a heck of a time finding out from the State office whether or not they even the offer Marriage Certificate with apostille.. The County does not. I'm not too clear on what exactly I should say in the letter either? Lastly, I've seen some variance on the size and number of pictures required. I plan to go to someone near INM who does it all the time and should know best. Thanks. MM


----------



## RVGRINGO

Please note, whenever you apply, the need for multiple photos and copies of your documents.
Also, You don't pay at INM. You must have the appropriate forms for your procedure, indicating the correct amount, and you must make the payment at a bank. Then, make two copies of the receipts before going to INM.


----------



## MJB5293

https://www.californiaapostilles.com/ this is for your apostilles 

also all letters must be in spanish other then that you got it.

Moderator's note:
All apostiles must come from the Secretary of State where the document was issued.


----------



## MangoMike

*So is the "Apostille" required?*



MJB5293 said:


> https://www.californiaapostilles.com/ this is for your apostilles
> 
> also all letters must be in spanish other then that you got it



Anyone out there just get an FM3 for the first time? Anyone with my situation? I will have a pension and my wife will not. That must be fairly common. Do I only need the marriage certificate with apostille because my wife doesn't have income on her own? What's the rationale?
MM


----------



## ltslovak

*can I just let it expire?*

I am not really going to be needing my FM3 now for several more years and have one that I got last year. It expires in November. I will be going down to Mexico in November but only for about 8 days. Since the process has changed, can I just enter on a tourist card and let my current FM3 expire ?


----------



## Johang

ltslovak said:


> I am not really going to be needing my FM3 now for several more years and have one that I got last year. It expires in November. I will be going down to Mexico in November but only for about 8 days. Since the process has changed, can I just enter on a tourist card and let my current FM3 expire ?


If your FM3 is not expired you are required to use it each time you enter and exit the country. Once it expires you can just use the FMM. If it expires while you are in Mexico for those 8 days you would technically be in the country without permission. The old system was not computerized to the extent that it could be detected if you simply used an FMM and failed to present your FM3.


----------



## Johang

MangoMike said:


> Anyone out there just get an FM3 for the first time? Anyone with my situation? I will have a pension and my wife will not. That must be fairly common. Do I only need the marriage certificate with apostille because my wife doesn't have income on her own? What's the rationale?
> MM


You can use a joint bank account to prove you have income. Bank statements must show your wife's name and yours, of course. Where the income comes from is not the issue only that it exists. Supply copies of three most recent months with sufficient balance in the account and you should be OK.


----------



## RVGRINGO

Mango Mike,
You should get an apostile of your marriage certificate, just in case INM insists on a 'dependent' FM3 for your wife.

Itslovak,
If you have an FM3, you must use that. It would be illegal to use another immigration document while the FM3 exists. Actually, your FM3 should be cancelled by you, at the border INM the next time you exit Mexico if you aren't going to be in Mexico to renew it at the proper time each year, as required. If you don't cancel it, you may be fined if you return within the five year period. The FM3 is for temporary residents and the FMM is for visitors staying less than 180 days.


----------



## RVGRINGO

Mango Mike,
You should get an apostile of your marriage certificate, just in case INM insists on a 'dependent' FM3 for your wife.

Itslovak,
If you have an FM3, you must use that. It would be illegal to use another immigration document while the FM3 exists. Actually, your FM3 should be cancelled by you, at the border INM the next time you exit Mexico, if you aren't going to be in Mexico to renew it at the proper time each year, as required. If you don't cancel it, you may be fined for each day beyond the required renewal date, if you return within the five year period. The FM3 is for temporary residents and the FMM is for visitors staying less than 180 days.


----------



## Johang

RVGRINGO said:


> .... Actually, your FM3 should be cancelled by you, at the border INM the next time you exit Mexico, if you aren't going to be in Mexico to renew it at the proper time each year, as required. If you don't cancel it, you may be fined for each day beyond the required renewal date, if you return within the five year period....


I cannot find any information about cancelling your FM3 and the possible fine mentioned here. Do you have a source for this information? I am assuming the cancellation is automatic if you do not renew but I can't fine confirmation of that either. The document I am relying on is here:
DOF - Diario Oficial de la Federación

The only mention of cancellation in it is regarding absence from the country with an FM2 and in case of loss or theft.


----------



## RVGRINGO

I can't quote the law, and don't have the time to search it out, but you may rest assured that your FM3 should be cancelled, by you, at the border, if you won't return in time to renew it. Yes, people have been fined for not doing so. If you wish to argue the point, please feel free to do so with the Aduana officials. They'll enjoy that, but you won't. That I can guarantee.


----------



## Johang

RVGRINGO said:


> I can't quote the law, and don't have the time to search it out, but you may rest assured that your FM3 should be cancelled, by you, at the border, if you won't return in time to renew it. Yes, people have been fined for not doing so. If you wish to argue the point, please feel free to do so with the Aduana officials. They'll enjoy that, but you won't. That I can guarantee.


The document I linked to is supposed to include all the details so it is possible that the requirement has changed. Perhaps other can help us out with personal experiences as we learn how the changes will be implemented. I am certainly not looking for an argument with you or the INM.


----------



## RVGRINGO

Others have gone before you and those of us who have lived here for a decade are simply recounting their experiences. If you wish to test the waters anew, please feel free to do so.
This is not the USA and being 'armed with the law' usually results in 'big complications'. The 'law' is the agent in front of you at the moment. Asi es la vida.


----------



## ltslovak

Far be it from me to want to run afoul of the rules!!
Just looking for solutions to my dilemma. I will be in Mexico 8 days and my FM3
( it's rentista) expires on the second day I am there. I am flying both ways.
I got the FM3 last year thinking we were going to have to get a new car down there but as it turns out that's not the case. I do not plan on retiring for at least another 5 years so really don't need it at this point. I won't be staying past the 180 days for a long time to come. If I can start the renewal process online and be complete enough so that I can only have to go one time to the office in Manzanillo for renewal , I may do that.
I see on Rolly's site that there is a document they can give you to exit Mexico if your FM3 renewal isn't done by the time you leave, so it looks like either way I will have to go down there at least once. Any feedback on how the renewal process is going for others at the Manzanillo office would be greatly appreciated.

just as an FYI...to this point the Manzanillo office has never fined anyone with an expired with an FM3, even if it's been expired for over a year, when they went to renew but things could always change!!

I also wonder about a few things and maybe you all have some insight...


If I decide not to renew my FM3 but I will have to enter on it, do you think I will then be able to go to the Manzanillo office and just have them cancel it and give me the exit form....could the airport office of the INM do this?
I got the FM3 at the consulate's office here in the US. I know they cannot issue them anymore but could they be any help in canceling it?
I live close enough to Tijuana that I can make a quick trip over the border. Could the FM3 be canceled at any office or does it have to be the one closest to your residence in Mexico? I believe you can only renew at the one closest to your residence
.


----------



## RVGRINGO

Since your FM3 is to expire within days of arriving in Mexico, I would suggest that you ask INM at the airport to cancel it and issue you an FMM (180 day limit) for your visit. If that request confuses them, go straight to INM at your destination and try to do it there. If they won't, you can usually use their computer, or one nearby, to do your application for renewal, make payment at the bank, get everything copied and present your documents before you expire. Once that's done, the clock stops ticking. INM's chief in Guadalajara has said that there will be fines for late applications, especially high for flagrant lateness. It is calculated on a daily rate, which I don't have knowledge of.
You also appear to have other options:
1. You could hop over to Tijuana and stop at INM on the way out and have them cancel your FM3.
2. You could ask your nearest Mexican Consulate if they can cancel it. Of that, I'm uncertain.
3. You could do the online process now, at home, and head for INM with your documents upon arrival.


----------



## ltslovak

Thanks RV ******! Not sure which way I am going to go with this yet but I'll do a post about my experience when I do.


----------



## Johang

ltslovak said:


> ... a post about my experience when I do.


I would love to hear what happens. Your situation points out how much we still have to learn.

I think RVGRINGO's suggestion that you fill out the form and try taking it to the INM is a good one. Unfortunately there is no option for cancelling your FM3 so I suggest using these options in the first two lines of the on line form:

Realizar actividades diferentes a las autorizadas

Cambio de característica migratoria

And then in the notes at the bottom (Commentraios) write: 

Quiero cancelar mi FM3

Like you I am concerned they may not want to deal with it except in the nearest INM office to your Mexico address but I would love to know what happens if you present that document at the Tijuana border.

Full instructions on filling out the rest of the form and turning off you pop-up blocker here.


----------



## FHBOY

*SAT Form*

I am new to this and planning on a move with my wife after I retire in 2012-2013 (after I reach age 62). So I am collecting info. What is an SAT form? Are there people that can be hired to help us through all this red tape? We will be settling in PV. Thanks.


----------



## RVGRINGO

A 'SAT form' is a federal form that one uses to make payment, at a bank, for governmental procedures.
There are a multitude of 'facilitators' who will be happy to take your cash to help you with any government procedure. Some are OK and others have no better idea of the process than you do.
These immigration procedures are much simpler than they were in the past and you can do it yourself. If you don't read Spanish, you may need a bilingual friend or a hired person to help with that. Otherwise, just follow the steps in the online INM site, get your documents in order and go to INM at the appropriate times.


----------



## RVGRINGO

Due to the apparent confusion regarding Consulates in the USA or Canada and the issuing of a Menaje de Casa, with the requirement for a visa (no inmigrante FM3), I have contacted the head of the INM (immigration) offices in Guadalajara to confirm the present situation. Here is his answer:

"No, The Mexican Consulates in the USA, CANNOT issue either an FM3 or the new No Inmigrante Credencial They can only issue the stamped visa which informs the Agentes de Migracion (Inmigrants Agentes) upon arrival in Mexico to issue the FMM (180 day visitor permit) which must be changed to a No Inmigrante Credencial only at INM offices in Mexico."

He had no information regarding Aduana and the Menaje de Casa, suggesting that interested parties inquire directly to Aduana. 
So, it seems that if a Menaje de Casa is required, one will have to move to Mexico first, with an FMM on entry, then proceed to the new 'no inmigrante credencial' before being able to return to their home country to obtaine the menaje de casa and arrange shippment of goods.


----------



## Guest

One thing that the INM office in Queretaro also required when applying for the renewal of my FM2 was two copies of every page of the green visa booklet and one copy of every page in my passport. 

Have to also say that they were very helpful and the process was painfree. Their front door is locked at 1:00 pm, but if you are inside before then, you will be processed that afternoon.


----------



## RVGRINGO

By April of 2011, there will be no more 'green visa booklets' in existence, with the possible exception of those who have been approved as 'inmigrados' and no longer have to visit INM. I suspect they will have the option, or possibly the requirement, to change that for the new plastic 'credencial' card.


----------



## chicois8

More confused now, 

1. So if I enter Mexico on a FMM with the goal of applying for a FM3 do I do this within 30 days upon arrival or within 30 days of when the 180 day FMM expires?

2. Are there limits on how much money I can earn with only a FMM?


----------



## RVGRINGO

1. You should apply for your 'no inmigrante credencial' within 30 days of entry, if you intend to stay more than 180 days.

2. You may not earn any money in Mexico on an FMM. Working in Mexico requires the express permission of INM and that permission must be applied for as a part of your visa.


----------



## chicois8

Hola RV, That's way I started my post with "Confused", on the front of the FMM form there is a line that states:
" Visitor, Lucrative Activity, Maximunm stay up to 180 Days"

Then under that there are 6 boxes, 1 being Artist-Sportsperson... It seems to me that if I checked that box and was allowed entry it means I could enter my art in a gallery or shop, and earn money...am I missing something with this thought...thanks


----------



## RVGRINGO

If you are an artist, you can be asked to show your proof; a portfolio, etc. My guess is that you could then exhibit in Mexico, but if you are going to stay more than 180 days, you need to apply for a visa within 30 days.
My best guess is that they don't get too excited about art work, as it is not dutiable. Beyond that, the logic evades me. Even some INM agents seem confused, so don't feel bad.


----------



## Guest

RATS ! Trusted the photo place to take the right photos, and INM has changed the specs. My bad for not reading all the way to the bottom of the instructions. Now need 2.5 cm X 3 cm color photos, so the B & W photos as used before ain't gonna cut it.


----------



## Soma Sengupta

Hi RVGringo,

First, thanks for the info, it is of great help. My question is, how long does the application to stay on take to be processed? Is it less thgan 30 days?

Thanks,
Soma


----------



## RVGRINGO

Yes, the new system is very much more efficient and, if all of your documentation is in order, the process can be no more than a couple of weeks. Renewals are even faster, taking only 4-5 days in some cases.


----------



## RVGRINGO

*Contributed by "Silence820"*

Well I just returned from my visa renewal here in México City, and I hope this will be useful. (You can renew your visa 30 days before it expires.)
1) Fill out and print this form, make sure you turn off all pop-ups. 
Solicitud de Estancia - Instituto Nacional de Migración
2)	Fill out and print this form (you can go to INM and pick up this form and they will give you the instructions on how to fill it out, or you can just print this one.)
http://www.marinersmexico.com/docume...on-Form-FB.pdf
3)	Fill out and print this form then you can take this to any bank and pay $1294 (Subject to change each year, so check first) also make two copies of the receipt. INM will keep the original.
Instituto Nacional de Migración
4)	If you are using your bank statements for proof of income, do not bring any part of your statement that does not pertain to your account. My bank prints information about new bank policies in the top portion of my statement and I had to have that information translated into Spanish on a separate paper. Also as a tip use a highlighter to highlight your deposits and balance. Trust me this will help greatly.
5)	You will need a cover letter. This is an example of the one I used I received this info from INM
Instituto Nacional de Migracion. 
Yo, (your name here), bajo protesta de decir verdad manifiesto que subsisten las condiciones por las cuales me fue otorgada la característica migratoria y continuo realizando las mismas actividades. Gracias,
6)	You will need 1 black and white copy of your passport (the I.D. page only)
7)	Bring your old visa
8)	Get 5 infantile photos 2.5x3.0 they are smaller than the old ones and can be in color. 3 of the front and 2 of your right profile
9)	I did not need it but just in case bring a copy and original of a utility bill. (Necessary for new applicants & 5 year renewals).
10)	Take all of your documents to the INM office. When you walk in you may get a number or be directed to a line. Go where indicated and wait to be called. Some of the clerks will speak some English). 
In one week you will return to INM to receive your new visa. You may be given a sheet with a website and password to follow the progress of your application online.

If the link above doesn't work, try these:
Solicitud de Estancia - Instituto Nacional de Migración
"http://www.inm.gob.mx/index.php/page/Solicitud_de_Estancia"

http://www.marinersmexico.com/docume...on-Form-FB.pdf
"http://www.marinersmexico.com/documents/Mexico-Immigration-Form-FB.pdf"

Instituto Nacional de Migración
"http://derechos.inami.gob.mx/WebDatos.aspx"


----------

