# Whoa boy..



## Zorro2017 (Jan 9, 2017)

Researchers with the Universidad Nacional Autonoma de Mexico found horsemeat present in raw and cooked samples sold as beef or unclearly labeled in butcher shops, markets and informal selling points such as street stalls in six Mexican cities.

The study, commissioned by Humane Society International, also found high levels of clenbuterol in some raw meat samples. Clenbuterol, a veterinary drug commonly prescribed for horses, is not approved for food producing animals, and can be harmful to humans.

Researchers collected samples in the following cities: Aguascalientes, Zacatecas, Chihuahua, Mexico City, Pachuca and San Vicente Chicoloapan. The researchers studied 433 samples of cooked and raw meats, and surveyed 339 vendors. More than 40 of the samples collected tested positive for horsemeat. Researchers analyzed clenbuterol presence in 29 of the samples that tested positive for horsemeat (only raw meat could be analyzed for clenbuterol). They found significant clenbuterol concentrations in nearly all the tested samples.

The researchers also found that the majority of the vendors surveyed did not want to sell horsemeat and were unaware of the presence of horsemeat in the meat products they were selling.

Anton Aguilar, HSI/Mexico director, said: “The results of this study show that it is important for consumers to realize that meat mislabeling may occur and can be hazardous for their health, especially because the majority of vendors surveyed in the study were unaware that they were selling horsemeat as beef. We hope this study helps shed some light into the industry.”

The study only tested samples for the presence of clenbuterol, but other toxic substances may have been present. Horses often receive multiple chemical substances that are known to be dangerous to humans, are untested on humans, or are specifically prohibited for use in animals raised for human consumption.

In addition to the health effects involving the consumption of horses not raised for meat, the horse slaughter industry is inherently cruel. Unwanted horses, formerly used in racing or as riding companions, are sold to exporters who then pack them into semi-trucks and transport them long distances often under hot weather conditions with little or no food, water or veterinary care.

Mexico is the second largest horsemeat producer in the world, after China. According to the Mexican Ministry of Trade, in 2015 Mexico exported almost 3,000 tons of horsemeat worth almost $9 million, mainly to Vietnam and Russia. Many of the horses slaughtered in Mexico are imported from the United States – where horse slaughterhouses have been closed since 2007 following the withdrawal of funding for US Department of Agriculture slaughter plants inspections.

Horsemeat sold as beef found in markets and street stalls in various Mexican cities : Humane Society International


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## lagoloo (Apr 12, 2011)

I'm curious about the thought process of those who think it's okay to slaughter pigs, cattle, chickens and other fowl, but not okay to slaughter horses, aside from the drug issue. There is reportedly an excess of wild horses in the U.S.
BTW, I'm not a vegetarian.


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## UrbanMan (Jun 18, 2015)

lagoloo said:


> I'm curious about the thought process of those who think it's okay to slaughter pigs, cattle, chickens and other fowl, but not okay to slaughter horses, aside from the drug issue. There is reportedly an excess of wild horses in the U.S.
> BTW, I'm not a vegetarian.


If you found a healthy horse that had no history of being injected with many chemicals, eating its meat would be fine. Horse meat is in fact eaten in many countries.

Horses do not process food intake as efficiently as cows or pigs. It is not even close. Though this was not a proven thing in pure science terms until somewhat recently, farmers even 1000 years ago knew by virtue of experience that cows, and in the right climates pigs (assuming lots of water), were the way to go. Also, horses can have hard to handle personalities, cows and pigs in general not so much.

Chickens offer the advantage of providing eggs somewhat prodigiously as they get fattened up (or at least they did, not sure about modern large scale ways). Plus they don't require a lot of land.

In summary, its about economic efficiency.


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## lagoloo (Apr 12, 2011)

I think you nailed it. Economic efficiency has to be the reason. I didn't know the other factors you mentioned, like the way the horse processes food...so thanks for the very good explanation.


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## perropedorro (Mar 19, 2016)

UrbanMan said:


> If you found a healthy horse that had no history of being injected with many chemicals, eating its meat would be fine. Horse meat is in fact eaten in many countries.


 That's the thing. Horsemeat _labeled_ as such, from a healthy animal not doped up with chemicals is fine. Back in 1973 when the U.S. had a beef shortage, horsemeat became a much talked about alternative in some places. I found it to be too tough for steaks, but it was OK when ground up for hamburger or sausage and the right spices added to balance taste that's sweeter and gamier than beef.


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## ojosazules11 (Nov 3, 2013)

I also think cultural norms play a big part. I know people from India who will eat meat such as goat and lamb, but would never consider eating beef, given the sacred status cows hold in that culture. 

Some cultures eat dog meat, but as a companion animal and family member in our culture, just the idea is repugnant to most. Mind you, I grew up on a farm and had my own cows for 4H. I grew quite attached to them, and was very glad we raised dairy cattle rather than beef, so they weren’t sent to the slaughterhouse. Nevertheless I continued eating beef from cattle I wasn’t emotionally attached to.


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## Zorro2017 (Jan 9, 2017)

Please, allow me* to speak for myself*. I never said *I had a problem *with people eating horse, *just let me order it if I wish*. I have eaten plenty of squirrels, rabbits and even raccoon. I have no problem whatsoever with people eating horse, rat, cat or even dog as long as they know what they are eating. I don't blame people for eating human flesh in situations such as the Donner Pass or the plane crash, I understand survival. 

But to sell horse, particularly poked up with unacceptable drugs disguised as beef is not acceptable and if it is going on here in Mexico, it was my duty to mention it to alert people to it.


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## eastwind (Jun 18, 2016)

I agree with everything Zorro said. I'd go over all his points and repeat them all myself, but at this point that would just be...


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## Zorro2017 (Jan 9, 2017)

That's almost 10% of the meat sampled, pretty high. I'd assume that none of us buy our meat from the open air vendors that are common here and the large stores such as Chedraui and Soriana are probably safe. The study said butcher shops, markets and informal selling points such as street stalls. We eat carnitas from a small restaurant with a butcher shop next door. The man speaks English and I have been tempted to buy ribs from him because a real rack of ribs is hard to find here. Chedraui sells small packs of ribs but they are packaged with the fat hidden on the bottom and it is hard to trim but after this report I'll pass on the butcher shop.

On a side note, never buy the spiced or seasoned meat that has a rub on it, they do that for a reason.


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## AlanMexicali (Jun 1, 2011)

If yo go to any supermarket to the butchers counter and ask for whole slabs or cut a portion of a slab of pork ribs they will get it for you. The pork ribs in the display case prewrapped are cut into smaller pieces. They will show you the slab and you can ask them to trim the fat.


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## Zorro2017 (Jan 9, 2017)




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## lagoloo (Apr 12, 2011)

Good video.

Back in the States, there was a huge chain which probably did all of the above. I was suspicious, and began to go to the butcher display section where the meats were not packaged and would select a fair sized roast, which I then asked the butcher to grind into hamburger. As it happened, one could see what was going on in the process, so I got what I asked for. I am still doing it here in Mexico. Trusting? Nope. 

This was the same chain that had "specials" on items, and the good brand would be displayed, but when truth time came at checkout, it turned out that there was very fine print on the sign that specified the price only applied to the (inferior) house brand.

All we can do is watch our own backs and not rely on 'regulations' or the stores' "ethics".


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## ElPocho (Aug 25, 2017)

Zorro2017 said:


> Please, allow me* to speak for myself*. I never said *I had a problem *with people eating horse, *just let me order it if I wish*. I have eaten plenty of squirrels, rabbits and even raccoon. I have no problem whatsoever with people eating horse, rat, cat or even dog as long as they know what they are eating. I don't blame people for eating human flesh in situations such as the Donner Pass or the plane crash, I understand survival.
> 
> But to sell horse, particularly poked up with unacceptable drugs disguised as beef is not acceptable and if it is going on here in Mexico, it was my duty to mention it to alert people to it.


There is a mexican saying for everything....

"que no te den gato por liebre" (don't let them give you cat for rabbit)


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## xolo (May 25, 2014)

Hey Pocho, not to quibble, but that's a Mexican saying if you mean it's used in Mexico ... but it comes from the Spain. (And is well known in Spain, which is why I think of it as Spanish).


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## ElPocho (Aug 25, 2017)

xolo said:


> Hey Pocho, not to quibble, but that's a Mexican saying if you mean it's used in Mexico ... but it comes from the Spain. (And is well known in Spain, which is why I think of it as Spanish).


En todos lados se cuecen habas...

I heard it in Mexico first, so from my subjective perspective it is Mexican. 
We could probably trace it back to the Roman Empire, or the Moorish culture, at which point both your subjective and my subjective realities are erroneous. 


I try to use these to help people learn the culture. If I were to say an old Roman saying goes ".... ", I believe I would lose the rhetorical value, though it would be correct. 

Lol



Sent from my moto x4 using Tapatalk


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## xolo (May 25, 2014)

Lavar cerdos con jabón es perder tiempo y jabón.

My comment was based on knowledge, not on idle speculation, but have a nice day anyway!


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## ElPocho (Aug 25, 2017)

xolo said:


> Lavar cerdos con jabón es perder tiempo y jabón.
> 
> My comment was based on knowledge, not on idle speculation, but have a nice day anyway!


I'll have to remember not to "throw pearls to the pigs" myself. 

Thank you for letting me know that you are an authority and do not speculate. I will avoid disagreeing with you in the future.

I also wish you a good evening...

Sent from my moto x4 using Tapatalk


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

ElPocho said:


> I'll have to remember not to "throw pearls to the pigs" myself.
> 
> Thank you for letting me know that you are an authority and do not speculate. I will avoid disagreeing with you in the future.
> 
> ...


Moderator's Note: Cool it you two (El Pocho and Xolo), or you both will end up with infractions.


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## ojosazules11 (Nov 3, 2013)

If we can go from bread to booze, why not horse meat to sayings? All this talk of pigs made me think of “You can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear” which then brought to mind:

“Aunque el mono se vista de seda, mono se queda.” 

(Even if a monkey dresses in silk, it’s still a monkey)

Although I first heard this in Guatemala, I’m pretty sure this is known throughout Latin America and probably Spain. 

And I’m not directing the saying at anyone on this forum. No _indirectas_ here. Just the saying that came to mind with all this talk about pigs.


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## Zorro2017 (Jan 9, 2017)

My wife is Mexican and she indeed has a saying about everything. We were going to the Toyota dealership and she wanted me to wear a button up shirt, not a T.

"Como te vemos, asi que te tratamos." or "As we see you, so we treat you."


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## Zorro2017 (Jan 9, 2017)

More horse stuff..


Mexican horse meat a gourmet product
Abattoirs slaughtered 128,000 horses last year, mostly for export of the meat

Mexico News Daily | Thursday, November 9, 2017

Horse meat was in the news last week when a study found some stores selling it as beef. But while not popular domestically, the product is actually exported to seven countries around the world where it is considered a delicacy.

More than 2.6 million kilograms of horse meat, graded as high-quality, reached foreign shores last year with Russia, Hong Kong, Egypt, Japan, Vietnam, Kazakhstan and Belgium among the customers.

There are 11 federally-certified slaughterhouses that have permission to kill horses for their meat, according to information from the Agriculture and Livestock Secretariat (Sagarpa).



Located in the states of Aguascalientes, Coahuila, Chihuahua and Zacatecas, the abattoirs slaughtered just over 128,000 horses last year.

Some of the product ended up in in Japan where a raw horse meat dish called basashi is considered a delicacy while in Europe the flesh is consumed in a variety of traditional recipes. In Kazakhstan its consumption is closely linked to the population’s nomadic roots.

At least some horse meat also ends up on dinner plates in Mexico although in most cases its consumption might occur unwittingly.

A study conducted by the National Autonomous University and published last week found that almost 10% of beef samples taken from meat markets in five cities turned out to be horse meat.

Three of the cities where the meat was detected — Aguascalientes, Zacatecas and Chihuahua — are located in states where abattoirs are legally slaughtering the animals.

In the wake of the revelation that horse is being sold off as beef, producers of the latter have called on authorities to tighten controls in order to avoid that consumers are deceived.

“The consumer has the right to know what meat they are buying,” said Enrique López, the head of AMEG, a national beef producers’ association.

“Authorities must do the work to check that another [kind of] meat is not being given to the consumer. The sale of horse meat isn’t prohibited but it’s not regulated for commercialization [aimed at] human consumption in the country . . .” he added.

While many consumers were shocked to find out that they may have been sold and consequently eaten horse meat inadvertently, if properly produced following normal sanitary guidelines it poses no danger to health and in fact is both highly nutritious and low in fat.

Nevertheless, the probability that taco stands will start offering tacos de caballo (horse tacos) — openly, at least — alongside tacos al pastor or tacos de bistec remains low. 

However, according to a 2015 telephone poll some people may have already eaten them.

A national survey carried out by the consultancy Gabinete de Comunicación Estratégica found that 71.8% of Mexicans who eat tacos in the street believe that there are stands that use not only horse meat in their tacos but dog meat as well.


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## UrbanMan (Jun 18, 2015)

Is your toad still hanging around?

Eating cane toads a win-win solution for all, says academic - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)



FromTheArticle said:


> Professor Hayward said cane toad meat is a healthy meat option that is high in essential omega 3.
> 
> He has eaten the warty-skinned brown toad and said it does not taste as bad as one might think.
> 
> ...


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## Zorro2017 (Jan 9, 2017)

I have eaten frog, it's popular in the south as well as alligator.


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

Zorro2017 said:


> My wife is Mexican and she indeed has a saying about everything. We were going to the Toyota dealership and she wanted me to wear a button up shirt, not a T.
> 
> "Como te vemos, asi que te tratamos." or "As we see you, so we treat you."


Excellent advice, especially in Mexico!


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