# weather is important



## Upsy Daisy (Apr 5, 2016)

Hello
I am planning a move in the next couple of years, Weather is important not to hot, but over 65. Retirement community. Not an overly rainy area. where I can garden and is peaceful but close enough to city, to get there. How is the transportation, in case I can't drive? Is there such a place??????


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## chuck846 (Jan 15, 2016)

Upsy Daisy said:


> Hello
> I am planning a move in the next couple of years, Weather is important not to hot, but over 65. Retirement community. Not an overly rainy area. where I can garden and is peaceful but close enough to city, to get there. How is the transportation, in case I can't drive? Is there such a place??????


South Florida ?


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

Siince you did not mention anything about wanting to live in a foreign culture or lear a differnt culture , I would say that part of California or the Sotu is what you are looking for.


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## coondawg (May 1, 2014)

Upsy Daisy said:


> Hello
> I am planning a move in the next couple of years, Weather is important not to hot, but over 65. Retirement community. Not an overly rainy area. where I can garden and is peaceful but close enough to city, to get there. How is the transportation, in case I can't drive? Is there such a place??????


Since you are asking that question here, I would think Chapala is the closest fit to that. At least that I know here on the Mexico Forum. Good weather, just one rainy season, and usually at night so the days are nice; large retirement area of U.S. and Canada(you do not have to be fluent in Spanish); close to Guadalajara; and good bus system.


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

citlali said:


> Siince you did not mention anything about wanting to live in a foreign culture or lear a differnt culture , I would say that part of California or the Sotu is what you are looking for.


I think that by posting on the MEXICO forum, the OP implies that she wants to move here, not to California or the Sotu, wherever that is.


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## dichosalocura (Oct 31, 2013)

I second Lake Chapala and its North shore villages. If the OP had said culture, history, and colonial environs were important, I would have suggested possibly San Miguel de Allende, for its large urban area and large expat community. But the OP wants great climate and an excellent place to have a green beautiful garden. The OP also wants a tranquil place (I say Lake Chapala is tranquil very sparingly, because anybody who know anything about life in Mexico knows that tranquility means something very different in Mexico than what it means for people from the US and Canada) and the fact that it is not difficult to find a home with a green garden here. Lake Chapala is a very green naturalistically beautiful area renowned for its houses having large green, vibrant, tropical gardens full of fruit trees and flowers. While San Miguel and many of the beautiful colonial cities tend to be on the dry and desert side. The Chapala area is very small, comprised mainly of small fishing villages with a large expat community living in most of the villages. Transportation isn't as good as in the large cities, but it is not terrible either, many of the expats here rely on the bus system and taxis. And the huge metropolitan city of Guadalajara is under an hour away by bus, the buses leaving from the Chapala bus station to Gdl leave every 30 mins. And because we are such a large expat community, most things can be found here with a very decent and mid sized import food store called Super Lake where you can find most US style food products.


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## chuck846 (Jan 15, 2016)

dichosalocura said:


> I second Lake Chapala and its North shore villages. If the OP had said culture, history, and colonial environs were important, I would have suggested possibly San Miguel de Allende, for its large urban area and large expat community. But the OP wants great climate and an excellent place to have a green beautiful garden. The OP also wants a tranquil place (I say Lake Chapala is tranquil very sparingly, because anybody who know anything about life in Mexico knows that tranquility means something very different in Mexico than what it means for people from the US and Canada) and the fact that it is not difficult to find a home with a green garden here. Lake Chapala is a very green naturalistically beautiful area renowned for its houses having large green, vibrant, tropical gardens full of fruit trees and flowers. While San Miguel and many of the beautiful colonial cities tend to be on the dry and desert side. The Chapala area is very small, comprised mainly of small fishing villages with a large expat community living in most of the villages. Transportation isn't as good as in the large cities, but it is not terrible either, many of the expats here rely on the bus system and taxis. And the huge metropolitan city of Guadalajara is under an hour away by bus, the buses leaving from the Chapala bus station to Gdl leave every 30 mins. And because we are such a large expat community, most things can be found here with a very decent and mid sized import food store called Super Lake where you can find most US style food products.


Just for giggles - can I find White Castle Hamburgers in the frozen food section of Super Lake ?


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## coondawg (May 1, 2014)

chuck846 said:


> Just for giggles - can I find White Castle Hamburgers in the frozen food section of Super Lake ?


Maybe Blue Bell Ice Cream ! Yummy !!! 
Heard a rumor they were going to open a new Whataburger in Guad soon, too !!!


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## chuck846 (Jan 15, 2016)

coondawg said:


> Maybe Blue Bell Ice Cream ! Yummy !!!
> Heard a rumor they were going to open a new Whataburger in Guad soon, too !!!


In Cuernavaca - Sam's has Blue Bell Ice Cream. Costco has Hagan Daz (but it is pricey).

Haven't seen a Whataburger - but there is a new Carl's Jr (which we have not yet been to).


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## coondawg (May 1, 2014)

chuck846 said:


> In Cuernavaca - Sam's has Blue Bell Ice Cream. Costco has Hagan Daz (but it is pricey).
> 
> Haven't seen a Whataburger - but there is a new Carl's Jr (which we have not yet been to).


Chuck, you need to make time to "smell the roses" !


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## dichosalocura (Oct 31, 2013)

No, but you can find chex mix snacks and many processed American foods like hamburger helper for that last day of the month that you are too wiped out to have to cook _everything_ from scratch! It has many wonderful and/or horrible processed food comforts for the Americanized expat that just wants a taste of home every now and then. But you will definitely pay for it in highly taxed import prices. And for the greenery with the mountains, many folks have compared to Hawaii but with cooler temperatures, since it is at the same latitude and everything that grows in Hawaii does and easily grows here. Of course if you want cactus and succulents as your garden landscaping, they grow great here, and if you want banana trees and tropical flowers and plants everywhere they grow great here too! The Chapala area is very green compared to many other corners of central Mexico.


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## dichosalocura (Oct 31, 2013)

Right next to the Pranzo Bistro Italian restaurant in La Floresta Ajijic, we have a Blue Bell Ice crème Parlor which is a doable walk from Super Lake!


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## chuck846 (Jan 15, 2016)

dichosalocura said:


> No, but you can find chex mix snacks and many processed American foods like hamburger helper for that last day of the month that you are too wiped out to have to cook _everything_ from scratch! It has many wonderful and/or horrible processed food comforts for the Americanized expat that just wants a taste of home every now and then. But you will definitely pay for it in highly taxed import prices. And for the greenery with the mountains, many folks have compared to Hawaii but with cooler temperatures, since it is at the same latitude and everything that grows in Hawaii does and easily grows here. Of course if you want cactus and succulents as your garden landscaping, they grow great here, and if you want banana trees and tropical flowers and plants everywhere they grow great here too! The Chapala area is very green compared to many other corners of central Mexico.


I'm always hesitant to 'sell' someone on someplace - never would have made a good real-estate agent I guess.

In our 'yard' we have perhaps 20+ trees ; red and gold grapefruit, several varieties of orange (including great navels), lime, lemon, fuschwah (my spelling stinks - but it comes from Columbia), plums, peaches, avacados, pepper, mangos, queen palms, pomagrauentes (?), poisiena (?), coffee and on and on.


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## coondawg (May 1, 2014)

dichosalocura said:


> Right next to the Pranzo Bistro Italian restaurant in La Floresta Ajijic, we have a Blue Bell Ice crème Parlor which is a doable walk from Super Lake!


Isn't Chapala GREAT !


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## chuck846 (Jan 15, 2016)

coondawg said:


> Isn't Chapala GREAT !


Another food thread coming  Hello chat area...


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## dichosalocura (Oct 31, 2013)

I'm not interested in selling the area either, I don't have a dog in the race, I am not a real estate agent nor do I run any business period and certainly not one that would benefit from more expats in the area. Someone asked for a recommendation on a good area to move to, and I freely give my personal opinions on why I like the Chapala are, nothing more. And sometimes I talk about why I prefer Chapala over Ajijic, but they are just my personal opinions from my limited 5 years in the area and from all the areas where I have traveled to in Mexico and Latin America. Honestly, I would prefer Chapala to remain a secret and never to turn into what Ajijic has turned into, but a small handful of new expats to Chapala might improve our restaurant scene!


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## RVGRINGO (May 16, 2007)

Ditto to that! We settled in Ajijic in 2001, but relocated to Chapala in 2004 and stayed there for a decade. Wish we were able to stay even longer, as Chapala really became home to us. Ajijic was OK, but Chapala is more “normal“, more walkable and a bit less expensive.


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## joaquinx (Jul 3, 2010)

coondawg said:


> Isn't Chapala GREAT !


Just like back home.


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## dichosalocura (Oct 31, 2013)

I wouldn't say that Chapala is like any place _back home_, but after living here 5 years, it certainly feels like home. Chapala is not Americanized in the slightest, it is very much a humble Mexican fishing village populated by 95% Mexican citizens. Ajijic, on the other hand, offers much more in the way of American goods and services along with the higher price tags and the high concentration of non-Mexicans. The good thing is, is that they are just down the road from each other. They are as different as night and day.


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## coondawg (May 1, 2014)

Yep. spent from about 1999 until 2013 in Chapala and it meets the OP's needs in my opinion.


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## coondawg (May 1, 2014)

joaquinx said:


> Just like back home.


Nope, not for me, maybe for you. Completely different, but certainly has its own plusses and minuses. Obviously, Blue Bell is a plus.


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## chuck846 (Jan 15, 2016)

I've never been to this Chapala/Ajiic area but for my own education - is there anyone familiar with that area and lets say - Lake Atilan in Guatemala ? Is it a similar experience ?


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

no no comparaison. Lake Atitlan with its volcano and indigenous villages is stunning. Panaachel used to be a real dump but it has gone more upscale, still nothing like Chapala. Lake Atitlan is also much more isolated, the roads can be bad getting out of there. There are much more amenities and foreign goods in Chapala.
The population in Chapala does not have a whole bunch of hippies hanging out either.Not sur why Pana and An Cristobal de las Casas is attracting all of these people who are still living in the 70´s or who were bor way later but have decided that being a hippy on pappa´s money is cool..


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

calling Chapala a fishing village is stretching it..They are some fisherman but it is not a fishing village any longer, I would not call it a village either..


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## chuck846 (Jan 15, 2016)

citlali said:


> no no comparaison. Lake Atitlan with its volcano and indigenous villages is stunning. Panaachel used to be a real dump but it has gone more upscale, still nothing like Chapala. Lake Atitlan is also much more isolated, the roads can be bad getting out of there. There are much more amenities and foreign goods in Chapala.
> The population in Chapala does not have a whole bunch of hippies hanging out either.Not sur why Pana and An Cristobal de las Casas is attracting all of these people who are still living in the 70´s or who were bor way later but have decided that being a hippy on pappa´s money is cool..


When I was in my 20s I lived in Guatemala - had a 'farm' just outside the city. Often my 'job' required I travel about and one day I happened upon Lake Atitlan. I am 62 now but I will never forget the image of that lake as I came across the crest of that hill. 

fwiw : on that same trip I came upon an isolated 'pond' with the most incredible blue color - kind of like that you see when you fly over the bahamas. Well I couldn't pass up the opportunity and jumped in. A couple weeks later when I couldn't hear out of my ear I went to a doctor. He pulled this huge leech out of my ear !


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## dichosalocura (Oct 31, 2013)

Yes, Citlali, calling Chapala a fishing village may be a little outdated. It is a healthy, growing, very small city by Mexican standards I would say. Most people, just arriving from North of the Border for the very first time, may find Chapala to be a little busier than they would expect a similar sized city in the US or Canada to be. Since it is a very small area, and everything is super duper close to everything (unless you live in the more further out more humble areas or up the hill), most people just walk everywhere resulting in the feel of much larger than what it really is. All you need to do is watch the really cool video on youtube called Chapala from the sky to see how small it really is. But it is really dense, sure, full of people!


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## dichosalocura (Oct 31, 2013)

When viewing the video, focus on the first half, which is Chapala, of course Ajijic is smaller but it appears and IS much more spread out.


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

Yes Lake Atitlan is still spectacular..I saw it for the first time in 94 and I was blown away, I hated Pana but loved the lake and the villages.. There are more tourists than ever there bow and the villages are more like little disney land and the women are not wearin gtheir costumes like they used to do. In one of the village accross from Pana, where the priest was killed the women used to have these incredible headdresses ... last year I saw one woman wearing that headdress..that is a real shame..
The volcano and the lake are still breathtaking..


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## chuck846 (Jan 15, 2016)

citlali said:


> Yes Lake Atitlan is still spectacular..I saw it for the first time in 94 and I was blown away, I hated Pana but loved the lake and the villages.. There are more tourists than ever there bow and the villages are more like little disney land and the women are not wearin gtheir costumes like they used to do. In one of the village accross from Pana, where the priest was killed the women used to have these incredible headdresses ... last year I saw one woman wearing that headdress..that is a real shame..
> The volcano and the lake are still breathtaking..


I think we may be kindred spirits.


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## lagoloo (Apr 12, 2011)

No, I wouldn't call Chapala a "fishing village" at all. It's busy town.

It is a human tendency to make our choices the right ones, so I'll add my dos pesos about Ajijic, since I live in the center of town. Unless one is wearing blinders, you'd notice that most of the population is Mexican.
If you like to walk, there is a fine lakeside walking "malecon" right by the lake, with a recreation park next to that, equipped with many kinds of exercise equipment for all. Picnic table and barbeques, too.
The town itself is very walkable and buses run frequently. Lots of little shops selling fresh fruit and vegetables. A farmers' market every Tuesday a few miles up the road (west). A Blue Bell ice cream shop next to a pleasant outdoor tabled restaurant. Many and varied restaurants; some catering to expat tastes as well as Mexican food.

Weather: very mild all year around. Rainy season a few months in the year. Everything grows.
Many interest clubs, from cooking to art and reading clubs (and everything else you can think of.)
Property cost and rents higher than Chapala, but not so much in the adjacent villages of Riberas and San Antonio.

Suggestion: come on down and rent in various parts of "lakeside" and decide which is the best fit.


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

What is more Mexican??? Have you guys tried Santiago near Monterrey or Valley de Bravo near Mexico City..
Ajijic has lots of foreigners and the traffic is bad because many of the foreigners who do not live there show up on a daily basis to eat at decent restaurants, and enjoy the amenities that the other towns do not have..

Ajijic is plenty Mexican if you live in the village and take part in community events but then you have to speak Spanish so that reduces the number of people able to participate. 

The nice thing about Ajijic is that you can live that you would in the US or you can mix with the village people if that is what you want to do or the Tapatios who come on the week-end..it is all up to each individual to find its comfort level.

The whole Lakeside area can be called "Gringolandia" if you compare it to most of Mexico so what?? Enjoy the place the way it is, it can be really nice to be able to find things you cannot find anywhere else in Mexico, have good doctors and hospitals not too far away and above all a hell of a great climate.

San Antonio is still a village and probably has the best location as far as shopping goes, that would be my choice if I were moving now to lakeside..


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## RVGRINGO (May 16, 2007)

Most of the businesses that attract expats are located east of Ajijic, along the carretera to Chapala; actually in San Antonio Tlayacapan and Riberas del Pilar. We found these places easier to get to from Chapala than from Ajijic, due to the traffic congestion in Ajijic, especially in the winter.


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

Unless you shop at Pacifico del Mar and then you have to go to west Ajijic. 
We have local stores in that shopping market west of Ajijic and so the traffic does not bother us. I also rarely go via the carreterea as I just go via Ocampo through the village.
I am less and less Lakeside so right now I walk everywhere, I have one of the best market in the country at less than 2 blocks from house so the traffic which is truly insane in San Cristobal is irrelevant.

I only go to Chapala when I need to go to city hall and I have not done that for a long time, there is nothing I would go shopping for as I go to Guadalajara on a regular basis anyways.


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

Yes the San Antonio area has the best location as far as shopping for food and if you live around there you do not have to drive at all..even better..


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## lagoloo (Apr 12, 2011)

One caveat about walking, busing, etc.: The lakeside towns or villages are paved with picturesque but very tricky cobblestones. You must keep your eyes downcast or become one of the "fallen women" of the area. If you have any issues with knees or backs, buses are a real problem with their high entry steps. A walking stick helps in navigation. There are plenty of taxis available, too.

As Brigitte said: It's "gringolandia" but so what? Unless you're allergic to your former countrymen, this can be a plus. Even if you aren't fluent in Spanish, many of the Mexican residents here are bilingual after having traveled NOB for jobs in the past......so there's lots of opportunity for communication with everybody.


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## coondawg (May 1, 2014)

Wonder what happened to the OP?


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## izzenhood (Jun 8, 2013)

What about the Lake itself?
Like the OP I am considering a move to Mexico and the Lake Chapala area is on the list of possibilities. I have been to Ajijic and briefly to Chapala. The proximity to Guadalajara and other medical facilities is a plus. However, I was first interested in the area because of the lake, even though I had read it isn't exactly pristine. I would like to hear various opinions. I've mucked around in some pretty nasty swamps so might have a stronger stomach when it comes to boating or eating fish out of this lake. If they sell fresh fish on the streets how bad could it be?


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

I would think that if you do not eat it every day it is no problems. People have been doint it for a long time.
I ate fish and crawfish and learn how to swim when I was a kid in a river that was so poluted that they forbade people to swim in it and eat the fish..we survived. They cleaned it up and last year when I saw it I could not believe that we used to swim there..I guess it all depends on what your system is used to. Some people swim in the lake and many eat the fish, I do not because I am not crazy about fresh water fish but I would say that eating that fish once in a while will not kill you.


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## dichosalocura (Oct 31, 2013)

If you are interested in the health of Lake Chapala, look up Dr. Todd Strong, he is an engineer and works and assists the local government here in studying the lake and its effects on the local population. He claims the lake is not as polluted as many people think, and that currently the fish from the lake is safe to consume. The real problem with Lake Chapala is that it is an extremely shallow lake and you can see the muddy bottom from the surface so it will always appear dirty and the water will look cloudy and muddy. Another problem is that water enters the lake via the Lerma River and several smaller rivers or creeks carrying all that contaminated run-off but its only way to exit the lake is through evaporation. The lake historically had only one outlet for the water to exit but as far as I understand it has been damned up. The higher the lake level, the healthier and cleaner the lake will be. And the good news is that the lake is pretty full right now, fuller than it has been in several years, and we have had very little evaporation this year, probably due to the El Niño effect. The rainy season should be upon us in another month and a half and I look forward to seeing the lake fill up even more!


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

dichosalocura said:


> If you are interested in the health of Lake Chapala, look up Dr. Todd Strong, he is an engineer and works and assists the local government here in studying the lake and its effects on the local population. He claims the lake is not as polluted as many people think, and that currently the fish from the lake is safe to consume. The real problem with Lake Chapala is that it is an extremely shallow lake and you can see the muddy bottom from the surface so it will always appear dirty and the water will look cloudy and muddy. Another problem is that water enters the lake via the Lerma River and several smaller rivers or creeks carrying all that contaminated run-off but its only way to exit the lake is through evaporation. The lake historically had only one outlet for the water to exit but as far as I understand it has been damned up. The higher the lake level, the healthier and cleaner the lake will be. And the good news is that the lake is pretty full right now, fuller than it has been in several years, and we have had very little evaporation this year, probably due to the El Niño effect. The rainy season should be upon us in another month and a half and I look forward to seeing the lake fill up even more!


The Rio Santiago flows out of Lake Chapala, past Guadalajara in a deep barranca (canyon), then on to the Pacific in Nayarit. The Lerma-Santiago combined are often considered a single river.


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## dichosalocura (Oct 31, 2013)

Just curious, how big is the Rio Santiago that carries water out of the lake? I always had the understanding that much more water flows into the lake and very little actually exits the lake except for the pipelines going to Guadalajara. If I am wrong I am sorry, but it just proves the lake is healthier than many people are willing to except.


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

dichosalocura said:


> Just curious, how big is the Rio Santiago that carries water out of the lake? I always had the understanding that much more water flows into the lake and very little actually exits the lake except for the pipelines going to Guadalajara. If I am wrong I am sorry, but it just proves the lake is healthier than many people are willing to except.


The Rio Santiago is a big river. I don't know what fraction of the water comes from Lake Chapala, and what part is added by streams flowing into it after it leaves Chapala. There are some very polluted streams flowing off the sides of canyon into the Santiago. There are a couple of dams on the Santiago in the canyon below Guadalajara. The larger one backs up a reservoir that is probably a 1/4 mile across and 2 miles long. The smaller reservoir is somewhat narrower but nearly as long. Both are used for power generation by CFE. After the dams, the Rio Verde joins the Santiago and the Santiago flows off to the northwest through Nayarit and many more dams, finally reaching the Pacific a little north of Tepic.


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

TundraGreen said:


> The Rio Santiago is a big river. I don't know what fraction of the water comes from Lake Chapala, and what part is added by streams flowing into it after it leaves Chapala. There are some very polluted streams flowing off the sides of canyon into the Santiago. There are a couple of dams on the Santiago in the canyon below Guadalajara. The larger one backs up a reservoir that is probably a 1/4 mile across and 2 miles long. The smaller reservoir is somewhat narrower but nearly as long. Both are used for power generation by CFE. After the dams, the Rio Verde joins the Santiago and the Santiago flows off to the northwest through Nayarit and many more dams, finally reaching the Pacific a little north of Tepic.


TG, I dub you the Knight of Riparian Ecology!


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

Isla Verde said:


> TG, I dub you the Knight of Riparian Ecology!


I guess that is better than being called the Night of the Living Dead.


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

TundraGreen said:


> I guess that is better than being called the Night of the Living Dead.


¡Claro que sí!


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## RVGRINGO (May 16, 2007)

I recall hearing Dr. Stong mention that water from Lake Chapala had not flowed into the Rio Santiago for at least 30 years. And he said that several years ago.


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## dichosalocura (Oct 31, 2013)

I am certainty no authority on the subject, but I also recall reading that water flows into the lake but water doesn't flow out. And that the Santiago outlet had been filled in or something.


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## mattoleriver (Oct 21, 2011)

TundraGreen said:


> I guess that is better than being called the Night of the Living Dead.


If you're talking about the Rio Santiago the difference may be quite slim.

It is interesting that at least one of those downstream reservoirs is well known for its bass fishing. I can't help but wonder if those fish are any less contaminated than their oft slandered Lake Chapala cousins.


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## coondawg (May 1, 2014)

The only thing I remember about the condition of the lake was that several years ago there was a problem with women losing fertility or birth defects (something in that area) in a city on the other side of the lake. At that time, seems like the "health officials" said something like if a person did not eat catch from the lake too often, there should not be that problem. In all my years at Lake Chapala, I had never known anyone (Mexican, nor extranjero) that had ever eaten catch from the lake. If you had seem the BLACK sewage rising in the lake in the afternoons like we have, you might decide not to eat or swim or wade there. Each to his own.


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

dichosalocura said:


> I am certainty no authority on the subject, but I also recall reading that water flows into the lake but water doesn't flow out. And that the Santiago outlet had been filled in or something.





RVGRINGO said:


> I recall hearing Dr. Stong mention that water from Lake Chapala had not flowed into the Rio Santiago for at least 30 years. And he said that several years ago.


I can't tell from Google's satellite image if there is any water in the Santiago when it leaves Lake Chapala. It looks like at about El Salto you can see water. There is definitely water in the river when it gets to Guadalajara. One of the things I have thought about doing, but haven't gotten around to, is to walk upstream along the river from Guadalajara to where it leaves Lake Chapala. If I ever do it, I will report back at what point the river is dry. That might make the walking easier.


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

coondawg if the lake was that contaminated the fish would die. When I was a kid we found out about my grand father secret fishing spot..He came back wevery day with nice shrimp we would eat..well it was where the sewer entered the bay..never got sick, once in a while you would have an outbreak of cholera but otherwise we had some great shrimp. I know quite a few people who eat the fish from the lake and they are fine...


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## chuck846 (Jan 15, 2016)

citlali said:


> coondawg if the lake was that contaminated the fish would die. When I was a kid we found out about my grand father secret fishing spot..He came back wevery day with nice shrimp we would eat..well it was where the sewer entered the bay..never got sick, once in a while you would have an outbreak of cholera but otherwise we had some great shrimp. I know quite a few people who eat the fish from the lake and they are fine...


Only somewhat related - we spent a lot of years diving off the SE coast of Florida. They have huge/long conduits which run off-shore, from the water treatment plants. The abundance/size of life in those areas was incredible. Particularly the lobster which we enjoyed very much.

Unfortunately we had the misfortune once of being right at one of those openings as someone mainland decided to 'flush'. While the water 'warmed-up' in a hurry - the 'visibility' decreased in a hurry as well.


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## coondawg (May 1, 2014)

chuck846 said:


> Only somewhat related - we spent a lot of years diving off the SE coast of Florida. They have huge/long conduits which run off-shore, from the water treatment plants. The abundance/size of life in those areas was incredible. Particularly the lobster which we enjoyed very much.
> 
> Unfortunately we had the misfortune once of being right at one of those openings as someone mainland decided to 'flush'. While the water 'warmed-up' in a hurry - the 'visibility' decreased in a hurry as well.


Though similar, I am going to guess that in Florida they normally do not run out of funds to treat the sewage. In Chapala, it is not uncommon that when the government "spends" its money, there are not funds to purchase chemicals to treat things and there can be months when they are not purchased. That is based on the comment of a friend's son who has been with Simapa for many years. Just telling it like we have seen it and heard it. Everyone should make their own personal decision based on their experience, not on someone else.


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## coondawg (May 1, 2014)

citlali said:


> coondawg if the lake was that contaminated the fish would die.


I don't think I said the lake was contaminated. Did you actually read those words, or did you make that up? I doubt the fish would die from what I said. Growiing up on the Houston Ship Channel, fish seemed to survive very nicely on those chemicals dumped into that water.


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## dichosalocura (Oct 31, 2013)

First of all, I think someone would have to be really uninformed to suggest that the lake is in a pristine state of being, I don't think anybody here is saying that, and I also don't think anybody is saying that the lake is so extremely contaminated that it is a health risk for the community, yet! But of course Lake Chapala has quite a bit of contaminates and poisons floating around in there, its main source of water is the Rio Lerma which is probably the most polluted body of water in Mexico feeding into the lake. And think about all those gorgeous gardens you see in peoples homes around the lake, think about all those harmful high level commercial poisons people can easily buy here and the gardeners that use them on our gardens. The lake is contaminated just like almost every body of water on this planet is during this day and age, except for maybe the polar glacier regions. But I think that Chapala looks dirtier and murkier than most lakes due to its shallowness.


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## coondawg (May 1, 2014)

With water in the lake, and it just being there to see daily, and being able to ride in a boat if one feels like it, makes living at Lake Chapala an attractive prospect to me. YMMD. 

Forgot the FABULOUS Sunsets across the lake !!!


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

coondawg said:


> With water in the lake, and it just being there to see daily, and being able to ride in a boat if one feels like it, makes living at Lake Chapala an attractive prospect to me. YMMD.
> 
> Forgot the FABULOUS Sunsets across the lake !!!


Like this one?


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## jwagner (Feb 11, 2013)

Re: anybody who know anything about life in Mexico knows that tranquility means something very different in Mexico than what it means for people from the US and Canada.

This is a very good and important point. For Mexicans, a place that is "tranquilo" has nothing whatever to do with peace and quiet. It has to do with an absence of disrukptive criminal activity, personal safety. Earplugs to sleep well make life much easier here. It is an extremely noisy country, and there are precious few exceptions. Small town life is especially noisy. It is what is known as a "barking dog culture." Not only dogs kept on roofs, however, but also, the common presence of crowing roosters, church bells, noisy neighbors, honking horns, car alarms going off at all hours, wandering sales with megaphones on the car or truck, huge speakers blaring music at store fronts, karaoke bars blaring music at night. One could go on and on. There is little or no zoning, and no regulations involving noise pullution. In a general way, the culture is indifferent to the needs for privacy of others, and civic sense and the need for peace and quiet are very low on the scale of values. It is not a disciplined population. Some find this charming, others do not.


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## eastwind (Jun 18, 2016)

I live in an older condo, and a lot of the apartments seem to be under renovation. In the five weeks I've lived here I've been woken up almost every working day morning by pounding. Even if it's 5 floors up and a couple apartments over it's very audible due to vertical chimneys built into the building for pipes and wiring. I've gotten so I can sleep through it. In fact, some workmen came to my apartment early on a morning I was sleeping in and failed to wake me because they were pounding on the door. After a while they called my cell phone and that woke me up.

I had some work done in my apartment to put new pull handles on the balcony doors, and they decided to take the sliding doors off the tracks to replace the rollers. It required pounding to get the doors off the tracks, pounding to get the old rollers out of the doors, pounding to get the new rollers to fit into the doors, and pounding to get the doors back on the tracks. 

In the other apartments they are replacing the tile floors, a process that requires breaking up the old tiles by pounding on them. When I was staying at a hotel before renting this place, they were doing the same thing to a patio area there. Everything here is tiled rather than carpeted, and they seem to change the tile about as often as carpet is changed in the US, only with a lot more pounding.

The hammer should be declared the national tool of Mexico. In fact it should be on the Mexican flag. (no sickle, just the hammer). 

I'm hoping that there's an end to the renovation season in my condo, but I'll have to live and learn.


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## chicois8 (Aug 8, 2009)

citlali said:


> coondawg if the lake was that contaminated the fish would die.
> 
> ( Or be born with 3 eyes )
> 
> well it was where the sewer entered the bay..never got sick, once in a while you would have an outbreak of cholera but otherwise we had some great shrimp.


( Just an outbreak of Cholera ) LOL.


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## ojosazules11 (Nov 3, 2013)

jwagner said:


> ...
> In a general way, the culture is indifferent to the needs for privacy of others, and civic sense and the need for peace and quiet are very low on the scale of values. It is not a disciplined population. Some find this charming, others do not.



I agree with your basic premise, in that if someone is looking to move to Mexico, it's important for them to know that the level and types of noise are different than what they are used to NOB. If they are noise adverse or intolerant, they should be forewarned, because Mexico is not going to change for them (fortunately)!

However, I'm not sure how you are defining "civic sense". In our town in Mexico, there is a strong sense of civic pride and community cohesion. This expresses itself in many ways, including all sorts of "fiestas del barrio", saints' days, parades, Carnaval, Quinceaños, baptisms, Posadas, etc., all of which are celebrated with lots of noise.

In terms of "a disciplined population", again, not sure how you define this. I see men and women getting up before the crack of dawn to start their daily labours, working hard throughout the day, often for little pay. I see school children pristine in their uniforms, hair neatly combed, off to school. I see homeowners and shopkeepers sweeping and washing the sidewalks in front of their homes or stores. I see women selling freshly made tortillas throughout the day with masa fresh ground that morning at the local _molino_ (in our town, using corn they grew themselves in their _milpa_). I see youth working in various jobs to help out their family. I see lots of discipline. Now after a hard day's or hard week's work, if they find ways to relax and celebrate that involves noise, that hardly makes them "undisciplined". 

I agree that "peace and quiet" may be low down on the scale of values, but there are other values which are higher on the scale, including family and community. It's not that I find it "charming", it's simply a better fit for me.


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

ojosazules11 said:


> I agree with your basic premise, in that if someone is looking to move to Mexico, it's important for them to know that the level and types of noise are different than what they are used to NOB. If they are noise adverse or intolerant, they should be forewarned, because Mexico is not going to change for them (fortunately)!
> 
> However, I'm not sure how you are defining "civic sense". In our town in Mexico, there is a strong sense of civic pride and community cohesion. This expresses itself in many ways, including all sorts of "fiestas del barrio", saints' days, parades, Carnaval, Quinceaños, baptisms, Posadas, etc., all of which are celebrated with lots of noise.
> 
> ...


Ojos, thanks for posting this wonderful, heart-felt paean to Mexico!


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## jwagner (Feb 11, 2013)

All good points, Ojos. Salud! I maintain my points, however, after living in Mexico for almost 30 years. I still live here, so of course I see the positive sides and that they outweigh the negative ones.


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