# How far south to avoid damp houses



## Kikie (Nov 7, 2008)

How far south in Spain do we have to go to avoid high humidity levels in Spanish houses? The hygrometer in our present house constantly reads high 60s to low 70s, even when outside is reading much lower, despite the house being a newish build. 

My health is suffering from this and any hidden mold, particularly aspergillus, is a danger to my partner. Dehumidifiers will only help a little.


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## davexf (Jan 26, 2009)

Hola 

I live in the Cádiz region and it is very wet here - my weather station will help you understand 

chiclana weather station meteo tiempo forcast 

Davexf


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

I know of people in Madrid with damp problems in older properties.

I think the quality of construction is the overriding factor for damp in the building, but of course the air humidity outside depends more on geography, but not so much on latitude, but on other factors such as altitude, distance from the coast etc....


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Probably the Canaries......... more settled temperatures & I believe low humidity

All of mainland Spain gets cold & damp.


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

The yellow / orange areas are this with lowest RH (yearly average).

So, xabiachica is correct with the Canaries being the driest, but only the larger islands and away from the coast.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Damp in most houses arises from two sources and has different methods of transmission and treatment. Very few houses have a damp-proof course in their walls or under the floor, so they suffer from rising damp this manifests itself in the walls of the ground floor or lower. Many properties have little proofing against rain penetration through the walls. In 2009 we had a lot of rain and the water was coming through, then running down the inside (note - this was not condensation,) in addition, this also makes the walls very cold so any airborne dampness in the house condenses on the cold surface.

How to deal with these forms of dampness.:
1. Cover it up: When we bought our house, the walls on the ground floor had some horrible plastic cladding up to a metre from the floor. We have seen other houses that have tiles half way up the wall which can be quite attractive but they are only to keep the damp in the wall and stop it coming to the surface where it forms moulds which are both unsightly and unhealthy for the occupants. We removed the ugly cladding, cut back the affected plaster and painted the wall thoroughly with PVA (poly vinyl acetate = Unibond which is difficult to get in Spain so we used white glue (same stuff) diluted 2:1 with water to make it easier to apply and painted the walls up to a metre with this solution, left it to dry, repainted and again left it to dry; Replastered the wall using ready-mixed filler, then painted with plastic emulsion - end of problem. The damp is still in the wall especially the lower parts but the PVA acts as a barrier and prevents it coming to the surface.
2. Keep it out: Outside walls on the lower _and_ upper floors can suffer from rainwater penetration which is made worse by the fact that the paint on the outside is frequently "Cal" (whitewash.) What is required is for the outer surface to be hacked back and resurfaced with "Capa-fina" which forms a water-proof barrier on the outside of the wall. The Capa-fina is then over painted with plastic emulsion (pintura plastica) which will last at least seven years unless you are in a very exposed location. Allow the wall to dry out; paint the inside of the wall where the dampness was with PVA diluted as before (this is to prevent any salts in the wall drawing any moisture in the wall to the surface, then paint with pintura plastica. These should stop you having a damp house unless, you are in the habit of allowing steam from the kitchen/laundry free access to other rooms.


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

baldilocks said:


> Damp in most houses arises from two sources and has different methods of transmission and treatment. Very few houses have a damp-proof course in their walls or under the floor, so they suffer from rising damp this manifests itself in the walls of the ground floor or lower.


Did you know that the use of a damp-proof course (plastic strip in wall) is against building regulations in most (all?) of Spain. I was told this is because we are in an earthquake zone and the house would simply 'slip' off the foundations.

Myth or truth???


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

snikpoh said:


> Did you know that the use of a damp-proof course (plastic strip in wall) is against building regulations in most (all?) of Spain. I was told this is because we are in an earthquake zone and the house would simply 'slip' off the foundations.
> 
> Myth or truth???


I have heard that before and, I guess it is feasible, but they could use what they used to use in UK - slate.


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

snikpoh said:


> Did you know that the use of a damp-proof course (plastic strip in wall) is against building regulations in most (all?) of Spain. I was told this is because we are in an earthquake zone and the house would simply 'slip' off the foundations.
> 
> Myth or truth???


Total myth.

I was asked by a British Building Surveyor if this was true and I helped him by looking into the building regs here.

In fact, in certain circumstances (depending on foundation design, materials used, groundwater table depth) it can be obligatory to use a physical membrane in Spain.

If I remember I will look up the building codes. I think I kept them somewhere.

What is true is that it is not common here as the circumstances which make it obligatory are not common as they are in the UK.


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

Overandout said:


> Total myth.
> 
> I was asked by a British Building Surveyor if this was true and I helped him by looking into the building regs here.
> 
> ...


The building regs are in the FAQ - I posted them there a couple of years ago.


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## VFR (Dec 23, 2009)

baldilocks said:


> Damp in most houses arises from two sources and has different methods of transmission and treatment. Very few houses have a damp-proof course in their walls or under the floor, so they suffer from rising damp this manifests itself in the walls of the ground floor or lower. Many properties have little proofing against rain penetration through the walls. In 2009 we had a lot of rain and the water was coming through, then running down the inside (note - this was not condensation,) in addition, this also makes the walls very cold so any airborne dampness in the house condenses on the cold surface.
> 
> How to deal with these forms of dampness.:
> 1. Cover it up: When we bought our house, the walls on the ground floor had some horrible plastic cladding up to a metre from the floor. We have seen other houses that have tiles half way up the wall which can be quite attractive but they are only to keep the damp in the wall and stop it coming to the surface where it forms moulds which are both unsightly and unhealthy for the occupants. We removed the ugly cladding, cut back the affected plaster and painted the wall thoroughly with PVA (poly vinyl acetate = Unibond which is difficult to get in Spain so we used white glue (same stuff) diluted 2:1 with water to make it easier to apply and painted the walls up to a metre with this solution, left it to dry, repainted and again left it to dry; Replastered the wall using ready-mixed filler, then painted with plastic emulsion - end of problem. The damp is still in the wall especially the lower parts but the PVA acts as a barrier and prevents it coming to the surface.
> 2. Keep it out: Outside walls on the lower _and_ upper floors can suffer from rainwater penetration which is made worse by the fact that the paint on the outside is frequently "Cal" (whitewash.) What is required is for the outer surface to be hacked back and resurfaced with "Capa-fina" which forms a water-proof barrier on the outside of the wall. The Capa-fina is then over painted with plastic emulsion (pintura plastica) which will last at least seven years unless you are in a very exposed location. Allow the wall to dry out; paint the inside of the wall where the dampness was with PVA diluted as before (this is to prevent any salts in the wall drawing any moisture in the wall to the surface, then paint with pintura plastica. These should stop you having a damp house unless, you are in the habit of allowing steam from the kitchen/laundry free access to other rooms.


So to summarize you removed the cladding (that the vast bulk of Spanish houses have) and replaced it with plastic emulsion (liquid cladding) inside & out.

https://youtu.be/Ck7RGBkxy8k?t=89


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

VFR said:


> So to summarize you removed the cladding (that the vast bulk of Spanish houses have) and replaced it with plastic emulsion (liquid cladding) inside & out.


If you can't be bothered to read the post properly and without preconceived ideas, it's not my fault.


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## VFR (Dec 23, 2009)

baldilocks said:


> If you can't be bothered to read the post properly and without preconceived ideas, it's not my fault.


I read what "you" wrote.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

It seems to me that the local geography has a lot to do with dampness but little to do with how far south you are. For me Nerja was one of the worst places I have ever visited because it was in the summer and the humidity was unbearable. That's probably because I've spent 30 years living in the very dry area of the Sierra de Madrid. Where I am there is very little damp, I'd go so far as to say none, but Over and Out lives in a different area of Madrid and says he knows people who suffer from damp in their property so I think it's a very localised problem. I do know that near the coast there is logically more damp. I have noticed it in Formentera, Valencia, Tarragona, Nerja, Torrevieja and funnily enough not so much in Bilbao, but it's probably noticiable in older properties


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

It's more to do with construction than location. Our house, built in 1988, has no damp. Others in the same street have damp coming through the walls every winter and are constantly fighting black mound. They are old townhouses with walls 2 or 3 feet thick made from mud and rubble. Ours is made from concrete blocks with plenty of airbricks.

Good ventilation and prodigious use of bleach is is the best solution. Always moisten mould with bleach solution and leave for half an hour before scrubbing it off. That way you won't spread live spores.


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## Europa47PG (Sep 11, 2017)

When I lived in an old townhouse in a village just outside Granada we had damp patches and there was no rhyme or reason as to where they appeared, it drove me mad but when I mentioned it to the locals they just shrugged and said that was just part of living in an old property. When a house was being built on a plot of land a few streets away I was staggered to see they didn't put a damp course in and that was only 5 yrs ago. I went through bottle after bottle of bleach....in the end it got the better of me and I sold and moved on to a property that didn't suffer the problem.


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## davexf (Jan 26, 2009)

Hola 

As was said, "Ventilation is the key" - I use a dehumidifier 24 X 7 from now until April and don't have a problem with mould - but I use portable gas heaters which need dehumidifiers. 

Davexf


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## bob_bob (Jan 5, 2011)

Dave, as I'm sure you know (but others may not) that portable gas heaters throw out a lot of water as a byproduct of the gas combustion process with heaters with no access to a flue... you may as well spray water on your walls; hence the need for a dehumidifier(s).

In Spain you need 'dry' heat such as gas central heating or electric heating, if you have a good source of well seasoned wood then a wood burner will work well.


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## davexf (Jan 26, 2009)

bob_bob said:


> Dave, as I'm sure you know (but others may not) that portable gas heaters throw out a lot of water as a byproduct of the gas combustion process with heaters with no access to a flue... you may as well spray water on your walls; hence the need for a dehumidifier(s).
> 
> In Spain you need 'dry' heat such as gas central heating or electric heating, if you have a good source of well seasoned wood then a wood burner will work well.


Absolutely correct - Even my log effect gas fire gives water out while burning. And when the house cools, condensation is a problem unless you take positive steps to deal with it. 

Electric heating is expensive when compared to other types of heating, but everyone should be aware of the need to avoid mould 

Davexf


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## thrax (Nov 13, 2008)

Well where we live a damp proof course is illegal but it does vary depending on where in Spain you are. I believe Almeria is the least likely area to be affected by damp and humidity in Southern Spain.


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

bob_bob said:


> Dave, as I'm sure you know (but others may not) that portable gas heaters throw out a lot of water as a byproduct of the gas combustion process with heaters with no access to a flue... you may as well spray water on your walls; hence the need for a dehumidifier(s).
> 
> In Spain you need 'dry' heat such as gas central heating or electric heating, if you have a good source of well seasoned wood then a wood burner will work well.


Very true.... we only get damp mouldy bits in bathroom and it is the room where we have the gas heater. Thanks to this forum we realized that was the issue. We are now having a small estufa put in at that end of the house to get more heat.... we have as much oak as we need


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## bob_bob (Jan 5, 2011)

Good that you have Oak, stick to only burning 'hard woods' as they burn longer and won't easily clog your flue with tar and or risk flue fire which soft wood such as pine will.


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

bob_bob said:


> Good that you have Oak, stick to only burning 'hard woods' as they burn longer and won't easily clog your flue with tar and or risk flue fire which soft wood such as pine will.


Yes we are very lucky with the oak..My husband helps lots of different locals with olive, grape and fig harvest his reward oak..... plus we have oak all over the finca, our neighbor allows us to cut his oak down, so we get the licenses from appropriate place and at the moment we have about two years worth drying plus two years ready


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## Deiter (Sep 24, 2017)

Having recently bought and am in the process of moving in to a townhouse a lot of valuable tips here gracias


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## bob_bob (Jan 5, 2011)

Megsmum said:


> Yes we are very lucky with the oak..My husband helps lots of different locals with olive, grape and fig harvest his reward oak..... plus we have oak all over the finca, our neighbor allows us to cut his oak down, so we get the licenses from appropriate place and at the moment we have about two years worth drying plus two years ready


Here in Wales I've a little over five hundred acres of woodland so standing/fallen 'dead wood' is not a problem for me.

I try and leave fallen wood as it is because each fallen tree is a tiny microcosm for insect life plus I have wonderful mushrooms


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

Pesky Wesky said:


> It seems to me that the local geography has a lot to do with dampness but little to do with how far south you are. For me Nerja was one of the worst places I have ever visited because it was in the summer and the humidity was unbearable. That's probably because I've spent 30 years living in the very dry area of the Sierra de Madrid. Where I am there is very little damp, I'd go so far as to say none, but *Over and Out lives in a different area of Madrid and says he knows people who suffer from damp in their property so I think it's a very localised problem.* I do know that near the coast there is logically more damp. I have noticed it in Formentera, Valencia, Tarragona, Nerja, Torrevieja and funnily enough not so much in Bilbao, but it's probably noticiable in older properties


The example I had in mind when I made my statement was actually a ground floor flat ner the river in Madrid. Built around 120 yrs ago with solid brick walls and almost certainly no DPC. A goode example of wht DPCs are required in certain circumstances. I would expect a surveyor to conclude that the root cause as high(ish) water table, combined with brick footings and no DPC, but I have not performed a survey on the property so this is just my educated guess (I am, at least as far as my degree certificate in concerned a buiding surveyor).

I live in a 40 yr old concrete framed property about 8 kms away and as far as I know it has no issues with damp despite it being extremely unlikely that it has a DPC (except the top floor suffering water ingress due to poor roofing but that's not really waht we're talking about).


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## The Skipper (Nov 26, 2014)

Overandout said:


> Total myth.
> 
> I was asked by a British Building Surveyor if this was true and I helped him by looking into the building regs here.
> 
> ...


I renovated and extended an agricultural building beside our house about eight years ago and we now use this as guest accommodation. The work was done by an English builder who put a DPC (the type that comes on a roll) in the base of the brickwork for the extension. In January this year there was a small earthquake (2.2) with the epicentre very close to us. Two neighbours suffered cracked swimming pools and small cracks in walls. Our only damage of concern was the new extension. The brickwork along the DPC line appeared to move and crack quite badly. An architect and a Spanish builder both told us that the DPC should not have been used and the damage we had suffered was because of the DPC. Our main house and the original agricultural building do not have a DPC and we have never had any damp problem. I am therefore following this thread with much interest!


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## davids0865 (Apr 12, 2016)

I have nothing tech to add, just this, I am currently in my home in Villar del Arzobispo (40km NW of Valencia) at 560m altitude, 27° and 21% (Yes really 21%, no dehumidifier running for months) humidity indoors. House built in 1987 of terracotta block rendered and a flat roof.

I think the key is ventilation,ventilation,ventilation.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

bob_bob said:


> Here in Wales I've a little over five hundred acres of woodland so standing/fallen 'dead wood' is not a problem for me.
> 
> I try and leave fallen wood as it is because each fallen tree is a tiny microcosm for insect life plus I have wonderful mushrooms


Around here where we have millions of Olive trees, all fallen wood, prunings/thinnings and grubbed out trees have to be burnt to prevent the spread of pests and diseases. Our log burner consumes it all very nicely (and cheaply) and just requires a flue clean once a year.


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## Isobella (Oct 16, 2014)

baldilocks said:


> Around here where we have millions of Olive trees, all fallen wood, prunings/thinnings and grubbed out trees have to be burnt to prevent the spread of pests and diseases. Our log burner consumes it all very nicely (and cheaply) and just requires a flue clean once a year.


I like olive wood, burns well and has a nice aroma.


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## Townfanjon (Jan 2, 2016)

Stored in my memory banks from years ago was that bleaches do not kill off damp spores , they temporarily kill them but white vinegar kills them .


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Townfanjon said:


> Stored in my memory banks from years ago was that bleaches do not kill off damp spores , they temporarily kill them but white vinegar kills them .


Not sure how you can kill something "temporarily"... but bleach does the trick most of the time.
Does Bleach Kill Mold? Ratio to Water, Solution, Oxygen & Chlorine



> Bleach kills bacteria and viruses and sanitizes the surfaces it's used on. Bleach also kills mould if it comes into contact with it. The spores and allergens from mould are neutralized as well.
> 
> Bleach will kill mould growing on non-porous surfaces like glass, tiles, bathtubs and counter tops. However bleach cannot completely kill mold growing in non-porous materials like drywall and wood. Bleach does not penetrate into these non-porous substances and so only the mould growing above the surface is killed.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Overandout said:


> The example I had in mind when I made my statement was actually a ground floor flat ner the river in Madrid. Built around 120 yrs ago with solid brick walls and almost certainly no DPC. A goode example of wht DPCs are required in certain circumstances. I would expect a surveyor to conclude that the root cause as high(ish) water table, combined with brick footings and no DPC, but I have not performed a survey on the property so this is just my educated guess (I am, at least as far as my degree certificate in concerned a buiding surveyor).
> 
> I live in a 40 yr old concrete framed property about 8 kms away and as far as I know it has no issues with damp despite it being extremely unlikely that it has a DPC (except the top floor suffering water ingress due to poor roofing but that's not really waht we're talking about).


Yes, I'm convinced that the place, the very local peculiarities that each location has contributes just as much as the building itself does.


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## Keral (Sep 16, 2017)

Our first village house here in Spain was built directly on the ground so we just raised everything on the ground floor to create a "crawl space". Meant walking up a few stairs to come in but reduced the stairs to go to the 2nd floor. The ceilings were already really high.

Never a problem with damp after that.. The english moving into the neighborhood is a different story though. Sold up before the tidal wave...


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## Chopera (Apr 22, 2013)

Overandout said:


> The example I had in mind when I made my statement was actually a ground floor flat ner the river in Madrid. Built around 120 yrs ago with solid brick walls and almost certainly no DPC. A goode example of wht DPCs are required in certain circumstances. I would expect a surveyor to conclude that the root cause as high(ish) water table, combined with brick footings and no DPC, but I have not performed a survey on the property so this is just my educated guess (I am, at least as far as my degree certificate in concerned a buiding surveyor).
> 
> I live in a 40 yr old concrete framed property about 8 kms away and as far as I know it has no issues with damp despite it being extremely unlikely that it has a DPC (except the top floor suffering water ingress due to poor roofing but that's not really waht we're talking about).


I doubt if being near the river has much influence as it hardly has any water in it! I live near it and have never seen a flat with a damp problem. There seems to be a debate as to whether rising damp really happens anyway. My experiences of damp back in the UK were usually down to condensation or water infiltrating through cracks in walls. I guess the same might happen in Madrid.


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## Roy C (Sep 29, 2012)

Our house is about eight years old and we are the first occupiers, bought from the bank. The ground floor is the top floor and it has two floors below that. When we bought it there were a couple of damp patches on the ground floor. A builder told us the roof terrace had blown, so we contacted the bank and under insurance it was repaired (not replaced) also they addressed the damp issues inside , with I think some type of damp proof paint. It is raining today so it will be interesting to see if it is working or not, as last time it rained when we were here we actually were able to see the damp appear on the wall before our eyes. 

If it has worked, I'm thinking my next step is to apply a sealant on the roof terrace annually as a precaution. Any views would be gratefully appreciated. The only other bit of damp was just below ground level were the inside wall met the pavement sub surface if you know what I mean?


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## Claudine M. (Aug 30, 2016)

We're in Galicia atm, in that little dark green area up there.
Both places we have rented in this area stink and all the furniture stinks. We have gone through a lot of bleach by cleaning off mold that just keeps coming back. The furniture our present house was furnished with had a thick layer of mold underneath all the tables and the beds and end tables and on the backs of the wardrobes. Every colour of the rainbow was represented in mold, even a thick white mold grew there. So we bought some new things, a table, some kitchen drawers and all those are molded now too, including some of our leather, wooden and wicker things we brought with us. All those have had to be thron away, acouple of things we painted with the paint that is supposed to stop mold growth, including painting the wardrobes. My husband has gotten asthema, first time in his life, so we're looking for a desert place now.

We found that small dehydraters do work, still, in a place with relative humidity between 87 and 98 all year, its kind of a waste of time. Well, thats our opinion after 9 months of fighting it anyways!

I think both the apartment and the house we rent are made of clay brick overlaid with the typical white plaster on both sides. The floors are all aggregate tiles or ceramic tiles. At least the bathrooms are tiled all over and they are totally mold free! even the shower is ok. Its all very strange to me, I grew up in a high dry dry climate myself.
Its amazing to me that the laundry can actually still be wet after a few days sitting inside on the clothes drying wrack!


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## Claudine M. (Aug 30, 2016)

*heating*

We had wall storage heaters in the apartment, pretty useless. Now we have proper radiators, hot water heating, brand new. We thought that would make it ok, but it doesn't keep humidity, or mold away. Am I being a little negative about this?


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Claudine M. said:


> We had wall storage heaters in the apartment, pretty useless. Now we have proper radiators, hot water heating, brand new. We thought that would make it ok, but it doesn't keep humidity, or mold away. Am I being a little negative about this?


No, but it won'ts stop the damp until you stop it coming in. Increasing the temperature on the inside only stops condensation.


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## cermignano (Feb 9, 2017)

The sooner you are out of there the better.


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