# refused visa



## axl365 (Jul 24, 2012)

i am absolotely devasted and havent eaten anything since the news..

i am soo soo sad and depressed and sucidal...

after a long wait of almost 9 months in total we have gotten a refusal.


sucks really bad and im having heart problems too..

i dont know what to say.. i just want to die.


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## Leanna (Oct 22, 2012)

axl365 said:


> i am absolotely devasted and havent eaten anything since the news..
> 
> i am soo soo sad and depressed and sucidal...
> 
> ...


I'm so sorry to hear about your refusal. If you can, please type out the EXACT wording of your refusal letter here, and we can help determine the cause and if you have a case for appeal.


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## axl365 (Jul 24, 2012)

i dont have the letter in hand its with my partner.. but apparently so far i know is that they are saying that the job's payslips are low quality and that they can easily be done on any computer..

so they only go and calculate one job's payslips and say its not enough therefore we are refusing


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## Leanna (Oct 22, 2012)

axl365 said:


> i dont have the letter in hand its with my partner.. but apparently so far i know is that they are saying that the job's payslips are low quality and that they can easily be done on any computer..
> 
> so they only go and calculate one job's payslips and say its not enough therefore we are refusing


The exact wording will be more helpful so we can determine exactly what they were saying. Can you get your partner to forward you the wording?

Did you have original payslips or printed/copies? If they were copies, did you have them authenticated by the company ie. stamped, etc? Or have them mentioned in your letter of employment that they are true?

Either way, if you can get the wording, we can be of help.


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## axl365 (Jul 24, 2012)

all originals.. ill get the details tommorow faxed to me..


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## Leanna (Oct 22, 2012)

axl365 said:


> all originals.. ill get the details tommorow faxed to me..


Great if you return here with the wording we will all be much more helpful. Again, sorry to hear about your refusal. We will go through all the details with you tomorrow.


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## 2farapart (Aug 18, 2011)

Yes, if that's the only reason, you can appeal with better-quality payslips signed and stamped by your employer. Although I doubt it will be any consolation to you right now, UKBA are outright refusing applications where they once would have contacted you to provide replacement documents. I'm so sorry you've had such bad news but hang in there and let's see if we can turn the result around in an appeal (we've seen some appeal successes recently for similar circumstances).


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Yes, it's called document verification and they have a system for examining the authenticity of supporting documents (have a special department for it), and if they have a reasonable ground for believing it's not genuine, they can refuse your application.
Supplying properly authenticated documents can have the decision overturned, provided you otherwise meet the requirement.


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## axl365 (Jul 24, 2012)

they are real documents from a real accountant and a letter from teh accountant is also prodived and signed.


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## girlaussie (Nov 21, 2012)

axl365 said:


> i am absolotely devasted and havent eaten anything since the news..
> 
> i am soo soo sad and depressed and sucidal...
> 
> ...



Extremely sorry to hear this, it's a difficult time but stay strong. Can't help you but hoping you sort out this issue real soon.

Best,

Aussie Girl


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Yes, but from which country do your documents come from?


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## axl365 (Jul 24, 2012)

UK

has my NI on them too.. cant they just check with the inland revenue if i am actually working.. and paying my taxes.. than rather just check the paper and dislike it so reject the visa.. 

they just wrecked our lives.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

axl365 said:


> UK
> 
> has my NI on them too.. cant they just check with the inland revenue if i am actually working.. and paying my taxes.. than rather just check the paper and dislike it so reject the visa..
> 
> they just wrecked our lives.


It's up to the applicant to show they have all the required documents, in the correct format, sufficient to prove your case. It's not for UKBA to do a background check for you.


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## axl365 (Jul 24, 2012)

yes but the thing is the documents are originals and authentic.. what can i do if they dont like the type of paper its printed on?
kill myself?

this is very sinister and unfair


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

axl365 said:


> yes but the thing is the documents are originals and authentic.. what can i do if they dont like the type of paper its printed on?
> kill myself?
> 
> this is very sinister and unfair


Calm down. Don't do anything silly.
Obviously UKBA had a legitimate concern about the authenticity of some of your crucial documents relating to finance. You need to address the issue in your appeal, answering all their concerns expressed in the letter of rejection.

Just sleep on it. I think you have a good chance of success. Decision can be overturned by administrative review, which doesn't normally take long.


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## axl365 (Jul 24, 2012)

im crying and im an old man... i dnt remember crying since i was like 10... anyway im sorry to be a big moaner.. thanks for your words of support everyone .


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Make a hot cuppa and sleep on it.
And get on with your appeal tomorrow.


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## Harun (Jan 27, 2013)

I deffo want to see the refusal letter. Because if you are saying that all your pay slips and documents were GENUINE and you met the threshold etc.. then the UKBA have dropped a bollock and you have a good case to appeal.

Also stories like these are starting to scare me!


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## lessenich (Sep 28, 2012)

axl365 said:


> UK
> 
> has my NI on them too.. cant they just check with the inland revenue if i am actually working.. and paying my taxes.. than rather just check the paper and dislike it so reject the visa..
> 
> they just wrecked our lives.


Call HMRC have your personals detail at hand they will ask you few security question before answering your question tell them you want them to send you your work history it would be there since you paid tax on your incomes is easy you will get a letter from them in 2 weeks.


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## axl365 (Jul 24, 2012)

will do that tommorow lessenich.

currently i dont have the letter its with my lawyer.

for one of the jobs i dont have have money coming into my bank, but altough i regularly deposit money.. and for that job i get cash in hand.

so therefore they are not counting that job .. and saying i only get 5k ish a year.

and that the job's payslips are of poor quality and can be reproduced on any computer easily.

also i want to know, what documents i need for the appeal? and where can i find the appeal form online

many thanks


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## 2farapart (Aug 18, 2011)

axl365 said:


> will do that tommorow lessenich.
> 
> currently i dont have the letter its with my lawyer.
> 
> ...


Ah - I think I can see why they err'd on the side of refusal. Two issues: uncertainty about how much income you're paying into your bank, and the quality of your employer's payslips being very poor (something you yourself cannot help)...

First, on cash in hand, UKBA reasonably expects that sufficient money is paid into your bank account to at least meet monthly outgoings such as rent/mortgage, utility bills and such - especially if your second job is only £5000 a year (placing the weight of proof of your financial standing on your cash-in-hand job). What you could do is provide any tax returns if applicable to prove you've been paying cash on these earnings (which hopeully will convince UKBA to count the cash as legitimate earnings).

Regarding the payslips, whatever you can do here could help... For example: is it possible to speak to your employer, explain the situation and see whether better, more convincing payslips can be generated or obtained? If not, is the employer prepared to write (on the company's official stationery) that they acknowledge that their payslips aren't of great quality, but they can confirm that you did earn X amount on X dates? Best of all, can they stamp, sign and date every pay-slip and add a covering letter on company-headed paper to confirm they've done this for you?

If you can remedy both these, you could have grounds for appeal. If not (ie you have no tax records and the employer is not willing to stamp past payslips), all I can recommend is that you start banking all your cash-in-hand payments fully from this point on (any cash you need in pocket you can withdraw from your account afterwards), and each new pay-slip you receive, ask for it to be signed/dated or stamped by the company. Additionally, do what you can to make sure you have good tax records (that way, your cash-in-hand payments in the bank will be regarded as net rather than gross, which should help you further). This will ready you for a new application.


I'm so sorry about your refusal. it's unfortunate that there are so many unscrupulous applicants trying to trick their way into the UK and other countries, and this is why UKBA is forever suspicious to anything that isn't a perfect match to their requirements or has the appearance that it could have been a faked document. I hope that your employer will be of some help and that you can overturn the decision in an appeal, but if not, plan ahead, seek advice from your accountant if necessary on tax, and prepare for a new application with better supporting evidence.

Wishing you the very best of luck.


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## axl365 (Jul 24, 2012)

. There is no independent proof of the size or occupancy of the property . I am therefore not satisfied that there will be adequately accommodation without recourse to public funds . I therefore refuse your application under paragraph EC-P.1.1(d) of appendix FM of the Immigration Rules (E-ECP.3.1) 


You have failed to provide the specified documents of your employment . I therefore refuse your application under paragraph EC-P.1.1(d) of Appendix FM of the lmmigration rules . (E-ECP.3.1)


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## Leanna (Oct 22, 2012)

axl365 said:


> . There is no independent proof of the size or occupancy of the property . I am therefore not satisfied that there will be adequately accommodation without recourse to public funds . I therefore refuse your application under paragraph EC-P.1.1(d) of appendix FM of the Immigration Rules (E-ECP.3.1)
> 
> 
> You have failed to provide the specified documents of your employment . I therefore refuse your application under paragraph EC-P.1.1(d) of Appendix FM of the lmmigration rules . (E-ECP.3.1)


Is that the whole letter?

The first paragraph indicates that they are concerned about overcrowding. What documents did you provide regarding your housing situation? This might be fixed if you get a Housing Report from your local council or surveyor, as well as tenancy agreement (if applicable) or mortgage/deeds/etc.

Did your ECO list any additional statements regarding your employment? Listen to what 2farapart has suggested regarding what to do regarding employment.


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## axl365 (Jul 24, 2012)

im gonna appeal. i have no other hope


and the thing is any earnings i didnt give to my rent/ council tax and food / other expenditutes/ bills went into the bank...


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## 2farapart (Aug 18, 2011)

axl365 said:


> . There is no independent proof of the size or occupancy of the property . I am therefore not satisfied that there will be adequately accommodation without recourse to public funds . I therefore refuse your application under paragraph EC-P.1.1(d) of appendix FM of the Immigration Rules (E-ECP.3.1)
> 
> 
> You have failed to provide the specified documents of your employment . I therefore refuse your application under paragraph EC-P.1.1(d) of Appendix FM of the lmmigration rules . (E-ECP.3.1)


Can I ask: are you sharing the property with other people? Are you renting it? Or both? This is just for our better understanding of why UKBA are refusing applications generally. In either (or both) of those situations, a *Housing Inspection Report for Immigration Purposes* will definitely address that concern, and I recommend you arrange this as soon as possible in case you do go ahead with an appeal (depending on what you can do about your pay-slips and cash-in-hand problems). Call your local council and ask for the Building department, and request from them the report. There is a fee (they tend to vary from £50 to £200). If your council does not offer this, approach a local estate agent in your area (those mentioning RICS membership should offer this along with other surveying services).

The employment documents I already made suggestions on. If you CAN obtain properly authenticated (signed, dated or stamped) pay-slips by the company that employs you, you have a good chance of appeal. The fact your accountant sent a letter doesn't really remove the doubt (because the accountant could be someone you know personally, for example). The proof really needs to come from your employer in the form of satisfactory pay-slips. For cash-in-hand, you *must* provide proof that you've been paying tax on those earnings (this is mentioned in the guidance, so it's better to sort this out before appealing). If tax is deducted from your cash by your employer, it will be sufficient to arrange properly authenticated pay-slips showing the tax deductions, otherwise you will need to produce a tax return showing how much tax you've been paying.

Good luck!


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## axl365 (Jul 24, 2012)

the pay slips you have provided for Comapny Ltd are of a poor quality easily obtained and reproduced on a home computer . the bank statement you have provided for you sponsor does not demonstrate regular payments from Company Ltd . this is specified in our guidance and must be provided .


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## axl365 (Jul 24, 2012)

its only me and im even getting auto discount for 1 person in property for council tax. 

and it says on the council tax information letter i have provided.


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## Leanna (Oct 22, 2012)

axl365 said:


> im gonna appeal. i have no other hope
> 
> 
> and the thing is any earnings i didnt give to my rent/ council tax and food / other expenditutes/ bills went into the bank...


I've gone back through some of your previous posts. Did you apply under Category A or Category B for financial requirement?

If you applied under Category A, that may explain part of your refusal. The wording could be better, but as far as we can tell, Category A is for ONE job, while Category B is for multiple jobs/different jobs/fluctuating pay. If you applied under Category A the ECO may have decided to only count pay from ONE job, rather than BOTH. Didn't help that they didn't trust the validity of your documents.

You can go back and read what Joppa and 2farapart had to say in your thread here:

http://www.expatforum.com/expats/br.../127301-confused-spouse-visa-please-help.html

Can you remember what Category you used?


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## Leanna (Oct 22, 2012)

axl365 said:


> the pay slips you have provided for Comapny Ltd are of a poor quality easily obtained and reproduced on a home computer . the bank statement you have provided for you sponsor does not demonstrate regular payments from Company Ltd . this is specified in our guidance and must be provided .


Best to do what you've been recommended here. From TODAY onwards, every penny you get paid from your cash-only job needs to be deposited into the bank. Doesn't matter the amount. Every ££ that shows on a payslip should be reflected into your bank. That will make it easier if you have to re-apply in the future.


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## 2farapart (Aug 18, 2011)

axl365 said:


> the pay slips you have provided for Comapny Ltd are of a poor quality easily obtained and reproduced on a home computer . the bank statement you have provided for you sponsor does not demonstrate regular payments from Company Ltd . this is specified in our guidance and must be provided .


Did you read my answer to that above? You need to speak with your employer about this and discuss some of the options I mentioned. This is essential. There is no point in appealing until you've put this right because you will not have addressed this issue, meaning the UKBA refusal will stand.

Forget council tax as proof and arrange the housing inspection report. This will be accepted by UKBA as proof of no overcrowding.


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## axl365 (Jul 24, 2012)

its two jobs under cat A.. however nothing is saying that it shouldn't be under that category. they just said one employer's payslip is poor quality and you are not getting payments paid in.

employer gets the tax from me and gives me wages after tax. 


here is the things i will do. 

1. get a survey done asap

2. get report from inland revunue of my tax payments.

3. get letter from employer regarding payslips.

judging by your thoughts do how easy would it be to overturn this?


also just before i got my refusal.. i changed my job hours.. the part time job wanted me to do more hours and change my contract to full time.. and therefore because i get more money from here i agreed. so in this job i get around 22k a year now

the other full time job was ok with making it part time. and in this job i get around 4k now

i was going to let them know asap but after getting text from courier i said lets just wait.


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## Leanna (Oct 22, 2012)

axl365 said:


> its two jobs under cat A.. however nothing is saying that it shouldn't be under that category. they just said one employer's payslip is poor quality and you are not getting payments paid in.
> 
> employer gets the tax from me and gives me wages after tax.
> 
> ...


Hard to say about appeal. Are you saying now that you work full-time at your previous part-time job? What about your other full-time job?

And yes I know it doesn't say anything specifically about NOT using Category A, HOWEVER, you were advised several times by members, including Joppa, that Category B was specifically meant for people with multiple jobs. Might've saved you a bit of the headache.


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## lessenich (Sep 28, 2012)

axl365 said:


> its two jobs under cat A.. however nothing is saying that it shouldn't be under that category. they just said one employer's payslip is poor quality and you are not getting payments paid in.
> 
> employer gets the tax from me and gives me wages after tax.
> 
> ...


That will be nice !!


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## axl365 (Jul 24, 2012)

im still working in both jobs but they are now reversed part time to full time vice versa and as a result im earning more than before.


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## axl365 (Jul 24, 2012)

2farapart or anyone here know a good + legitimate company for a Housing Inspection Report for Immigration Purposes .


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## axl365 (Jul 24, 2012)

all the ones that i found on the internet are not local, can an estate agent do it ?


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## 2farapart (Aug 18, 2011)

Your local council should be able to do it. Call them and ask for the Building department. If not, call local estate agents (they will be more expensive than the council though).

Great about your tax (I assume your pay-slips show this). As for your appeal, *ask your employer to sign and date each of your payslips *and to mention that they've done this in your letter. This will help a LOT! You could also include the letter detailing your job offer (where your pay changes to £22,000); although 'new evidence' is usually ignored, it won't hurt your case to include it.


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## MacUK (Jul 3, 2012)

I'm so sorry to interfere here...but reading your thread and the fact that you were refused made me so angry! I wish I could rant and rant, I wish I could get someone to understand what it's like to be apart from the person you love, to have your family torn apart, to be left alone with a child, to not have a husband and the father of your baby present when that baby is sick, or has spoken her first words...

I sincerely hope you can prove them wrong and be with the person you love as soon as possible!!! 

As for me, I'm a very strong person, but, I regret I ever agreed to such a thing, after this I am never applying for another visa ever again!!! Even though I am from a poor developing country, at least I am allowed to be with my husband here, to be a family, to just live our lives. I surely can't say that I'm living my life now, because I'm miserable and I am using every ounce of my being to just hold on because of our daughter....and every child deserves to be a happy child with happy parents! 
I really really hope you can get this sorted out!!!

I'm really sorry, I just had to say this, and I am so sorry this happened to you, but I am sure you will get through it, and win!!!


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## axl365 (Jul 24, 2012)

i am considering moving from here completely... i guess thats what they want!


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## MacUK (Jul 3, 2012)

Of course it's what they want, do you think they care about people like us? 
Don't give them the pleasure of leaving, stick through this and stay strong!!! Do not give up, lodge your appeal and fight this through!!!


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## axl365 (Jul 24, 2012)

cant find anyone locally who does this, council doesnt do it either, anyone know any good reputable outlet in london that would do this house report?


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## WestCoastCanadianGirl (Mar 17, 2012)

Perhaps you might consider ringing Foxtons or Dexters of KFH and ask them if they do housing surveys and if they don't, could they suggest someone who does?


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## axl365 (Jul 24, 2012)

All done. Now the waiting begins


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