# Low egipcian marriage



## Mio (Jul 19, 2011)

After all this things you can look in all pages in in Internet......



Anybody can speak about the low in egipcian marriage in a contract of " orfi"?!!???????? 



Thanks in advance!!!


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## hhaddad (Apr 14, 2010)

Mio said:


> After all this things you can look in all pages in in Internet......
> Anybody can speak about the low in egipcian marriage in a contract of " orfi"?!!????????
> Thanks in advance!!!


The non notarized marriage (which is called 3orfi ) is not recognized by lots of destinations ( courts- official paperwork regarding inheritance- pension unless with a decision from court), but it is a correct marriage if it has the correct conditions of marriage in Islam
2)If the Notarized marriage is in secret-- it would violate an Islamic condition in marriage which is announcing,,, which means denying marriage even for one person cancel the marriage- so even with a marriage with Maazon.. but not announced , that is violating to the conditions of marriage)
3) The reason that the non notarized marriage is not recognized by the government, is that the marriage tax is not paid , Paying Taxes (marriage fees) means the ability to have services,, If the marriage is not notarized- tax is not paid,, the government does not interfere in a possible dispute/ conflict in the marriage (deprive its service)...so the courts does not interfere
.
Now something very important, fatherhood does not need a notarized marriage to be proved,, so if the fatherhood is proved , the children will inherits as if in the notartized marriage...(the problem of orfi marriage that If there is a dispute between the man and the woman, the court will not interfere,,, that is it ,, for the previous reasons I mentioned)

The orfi marriage can really be a problem , if it is done in secret,,, (without announcing,, and of course if the two witnesses to the marriage are not reliable,, that can create lots of problem, and of course the court will not interfere in them(so the woman can lose lots of her rights,,,that is it)
-----The condition of the correct marriage:- 
-The approval of the two parties
-Two reliable male witnesses
- Announcing... (some sec also add alwali if the pride is not
Sayb),,,
- Sadak : dowry
If the Orfi marriage contains the above conditions it is 100% correct marriage , does not matter if it is not notarized or not.. (of course if the notarized marriage has one less conditions than those,, It is not correct marriage even if it is notarized)


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## MaidenScotland (Jun 6, 2009)

Yes don't do it unless its all out in the open,


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## charleen (Apr 26, 2009)

whats the point anyway? Just have a happy great wonderful wedding day with your family...otherwise why get married??? IMHO


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## Mio (Jul 19, 2011)

Well, this is like the information I find, but I want know the low exactly, obligations and rights, divorce, death of the spouses or one of them, orphans .... legislation regarding


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## Milouk84 (Mar 17, 2012)

Mio said:


> Well, this is like the information I find, but I want know the low exactly, obligations and rights, divorce, death of the spouses or one of them, orphans .... legislation regarding


If he asked you to marry him orfi, so based on hhaddad's reply you should ask yourself or him, why he doesn't want to have a contract. You can use a marriage contract anywhere for any reason, I don't think you can use an orfi paper for any thing, unless you have a lawyer. Stay on the safe side and go ask a lawyer. Know your rights before you find yourself stuck.


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## hhaddad (Apr 14, 2010)

Mio said:


> Well, this is like the information I find, but I want know the low exactly, obligations and rights, divorce, death of the spouses or one of them, orphans .... legislation regarding


With an Orfi marriage you have no legal rights at all as far as I know and there's no divorce just tear up the contract but make sure that both copies are destroyed otherwise if he still has a copy your still married to him.


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## MaidenScotland (Jun 6, 2009)

For legal advice... see a lawyer don't rely on information from a forum.

You are obviously worried so don't do it..have a look through the forum we did a thread on Orfi marriages before. If you are not good enough to marry legally with all his family, your family etc then why would you consider being with someone/


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## hhaddad (Apr 14, 2010)

MaidenScotland said:


> For legal advice... see a lawyer don't rely on information from a forum.
> 
> You are obviously worried so don't do it..have a look through the forum we did a thread on Orfi marriages before. If you are not good enough to marry legally with all his family, your family etc then why would you consider being with someone/


We have been here before an Orfi marriage means an Egyptian can marry a woman and then dump here when he wants without paying and normally with foreigners this is after he's emptied her bank account.


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## MaidenScotland (Jun 6, 2009)

BBC News - The perils of young Egyptians' secret marriages


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## MaidenScotland (Jun 6, 2009)

Sheri & Bob Stritof, About.com Guides
. 








Definition: Urfi marriages are unregistered/undocumented marriages in Egypt. 
Requirements for an Urfi Marriage:
• It must take place before a Muslim cleric.


• The couple must say "We got marriage" and pledge their commitment before God.


• They must have two witnesses.


• A document must be written that the two are married and must be signed by the witnesses. Having two copies of the contract/document is recommended -- one for the bride and one for the groom.



Reasons for Urfi Popularity in Egypt:
• Sex before marriage is forbidden in conservative Egyptian society. 


• Couples view an urfi marriage as a way to legitmise their sexual relationship.


• A husband is not financially responsible for his wife.



Urfi Marriage Issues:
• Under Egyptian Law 1/2000, if a woman can produce proof of an urfi marriage in court, she can ask for a divorce without alimony or child support.


• If a husband hides or destroys the urfi marriage document, a woman can't prove she was married. This prevents her from getting a divorce or remarrying.


• If conducted in secret without the consent of their families, a couple's urfi marriage is not sanctioned by Islam.



Also Known As: secret marriage


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## hhaddad (Apr 14, 2010)

MaidenScotland said:


> BBC News - The perils of young Egyptians' secret marriages


I think that explains it very well.


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## Mio (Jul 19, 2011)

I stay here in el Cairo, and each time I going for make a visa, they ask for any paper say we are married. The last time they say me only make for one month more. 

We live together for a very long time, he have one kid live with us; and we make the live of any couple normal in my country. But now we have the problem about the visa, and he think is a solution for they make the visa and no continue more problems in this issue. 

Make know married official with the embassy, take very big time, and is for it what they think about make a married orfi. 

In the same time I read very bad histories in Internet, but this not is we case, we only make for the papers of visa, in all cases he asked for married with me for the first moment we started the life together, but what me read about the low about this married is nothing good for the woman, and I don't want make nothing paper and arrive the day; and in the case of divorce or other thinks I look myself very old and with not possibility of have nothing in the life; because here the divorce is pay in the woman a little money and after in the case we have any kid , what happens? And he not need nothing excuse for divorce , he can broke the paper and is finish... 

In the same case I think the best is married in my country, because in this case all rights is the normal.... But for he only make problems... 


For it I want know exactly the low,because only have time of one month more before finish my visa.

And of course, have the option going holidays out of Egypt and make when back here a new visa, but cam imagine after one year have the same problem



Thank for alls in all cases


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## hhaddad (Apr 14, 2010)

The best way and I believe the only way for you is to get married officialy at the registry office ( shara aquary) your partener will know all the details of this,otherwise your just wasting your time. Then you can get a 5 year residence Visa.


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## Milouk84 (Mar 17, 2012)

Mio said:


> I stay here in el Cairo, and each time I going for make a visa, they ask for any paper say we are married. The last time they say me only make for one month more.
> 
> We live together for a very long time, he have one kid live with us; and we make the live of any couple normal in my country. But now we have the problem about the visa, and he think is a solution for they make the visa and no continue more problems in this issue.
> 
> ...


I don't think they'll accept an orfi paper to give you an extension or a residence visa.
The only thing orfi might be good for, as hhaddad said before, is to prove that you were married to the father when you got a child, even this is not easy, you have to go to the court and hire a good lawyer.

And beware, if you lost your copy, you don't have any rights. I think the official marriage is a good option for you. At least you have some of your rights, but i'm not sure about the divorce in that case.

What we are telling you is what we heard or experienced about this or that, but if you want a solution that will help you and at the same time preserve your rights then you should GO SEE A LAWYER.


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## GM1 (Sep 30, 2008)

An orfi paper will NOT give you a residence visa. You have to be legally married. (we had done everything legally, gone to the court etc., only didn't write it in the register?. So they refused to give me a third 5 year residency. For us it just took some days to finish the registration and get the 5 year residency). 

Also if you marry in your home country, you will have to legalise the international marriage paper by going to your ministry of foreign affairs AND the Egyptian embassy in your country. After that you can register the marriage in Egypt. But to be sure ask the embassy and/or foreign affairs.


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## mamasue (Oct 7, 2008)

I'd be asking myself why he didn't want to do a proper ministry of justice marriage.
An orfi marriage is commonly known by Egyptian men as a f***ing paper.
To a woman, it's worthless.
!t doesn't give your child any kind of legitemacy, and gives you no rights as a wife.
The young Egyptian guys I used to work with would have several on the go at once.


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## hhaddad (Apr 14, 2010)

With an official marriage when marrying you can state you want the right of divorce in your name which in fact my wife did.


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## MaidenScotland (Jun 6, 2009)

Mio said:


> I stay here in el Cairo, and each time I going for make a visa, they ask for any paper say we are married. The last time they say me only make for one month more.
> 
> We live together for a very long time, he have one kid live with us; and we make the live of any couple normal in my country. But now we have the problem about the visa, and he think is a solution for they make the visa and no continue more problems in this issue.
> 
> ...




does your child hold an Egyptian passport.. I do not know but this may give you the right to stay here,


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## hurghadapat (Mar 26, 2010)

MaidenScotland said:


> does your child hold an Egyptian passport.. I do not know but this may give you the right to stay here,


If i am reading it correctly it is his child not theirs.....in which case they can't go down that road.


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## Mio (Jul 19, 2011)

Why is all about this very difficult?!?! 

Well, he want to make this orfi for after maked legal. He say for now is good for me because have something rights ( now we not have any paper) in the case happen something in he; and he say me he not win nothing. We think make this paper and going to the court for legality , first the paper and after we can started for make legal in my country. We and specially he, no want live in Europe, we want make the live here in Egypt. But probably my country only make problems ... 

In all cases the best is meeting with any good man of low; but a don't know nothing honest no use we time and money for nothing..

I think all this need a full cup of patience 

Thanks for alls!!!


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## GM1 (Sep 30, 2008)

I think you can make an orfi at a lawyer office and this lawyer will make it legal through the court. But I think that will take a while.


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## Mio (Jul 19, 2011)

GM1 said:


> I think you can make an orfi at a lawyer office and this lawyer will make it legal through the court. But I think that will take a while.


Yes, this is we want to make, 
And with this first paper they not have any problem for make a visa for more months; because they question for any paper say we are married


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## expatagogo (May 31, 2010)

The only right an orfi paper will give you is the right to be alone together. You should have already done because not having it could make big problems. You've been lucky. As others have told you, an orfi will not help you with your residency status.


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## hhaddad (Apr 14, 2010)

GM1 said:


> I think you can make an orfi at a lawyer office and this lawyer will make it legal through the court. But I think that will take a while.



Look lets get one thing straight an orfi contract isn't worth the paper it's printed on it's just a license to sleep with someone it has no legal use at all even if you find a lawyer to register it in court which is something I've never heard of.


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