# Starting a restaurant in Cairo



## ArabianNights

Hi All,

As most probably know, I am here in Egypt studying Arabic for a year. My husband will be joining me here in Egypt soon and he is *thinking* of starting a small restaurant business in Cairo. We think there is a huge market for an Asian (Pakistani/Indian restaurant) and I was wondering what the actual steps needed to be taken are. I realize that there will be a lot of red tape involved, LOTS of Patience and having to deal with scrupulous Egyptians (!!) but we are determined to make this work! Is there a specific start up amount we need (money)? Visas? Work permits etc? Initially, my husband will be the chef and eventually, if we hire one, they will be coming in from overseas, but waiters etc, we plan to hire locally.

I would appreciate any input whatsoever!

Thanks


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## kevinthegulf

ArabianNights said:


> Hi All,
> 
> As most probably know, I am here in Egypt studying Arabic for a year. My husband will be joining me here in Egypt soon and he is *thinking* of starting a small restaurant business in Cairo. We think there is a huge market for an Asian (Pakistani/Indian restaurant) and I was wondering what the actual steps needed to be taken are. I realize that there will be a lot of red tape involved, LOTS of Patience and having to deal with scrupulous Egyptians (!!) but we are determined to make this work! Is there a specific start up amount we need (money)? Visas? Work permits etc? Initially, my husband will be the chef and eventually, if we hire one, they will be coming in from overseas, but waiters etc, we plan to hire locally.
> 
> I would appreciate any input whatsoever!
> 
> Thanks


Huge market???
We have just had a farewell dinner for my boss, we specifically chose a local Indian rstauarant (my boss & I wanted curry & beer), guess how many local staff appeared 3, normally I would have expected 30 if we went to "the fish market' etc

There are already a few indian type restaurants about, so you will not be unique.
Do your homework, but it does not really appeal that highly to egyptians from what I can see


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## MaidenScotland

kevinthegulf said:


> Huge market???
> We have just had a farewell dinner for my boss, we specifically chose a local Indian rstauarant (my boss & I wanted curry & beer), guess how many local staff appeared 3, normally I would have expected 30 if we went to "the fish market' etc
> 
> There are already a few indian type restaurants about, so you will not be unique.
> Do your homework, but it does not really appeal that highly to egyptians from what I can see




Got to agree with you there, I love Indian food but very rarely see an Egyptian eating there. There is an Indian restaurant or was in Midan Aswan were the chef is Indian but the place is always empty in fact it may be closed now as I haven't been there since New Years eve where my party of 4 where the only people in eating.
The new regulations will make it hard for you to bring staff in from India, I bring staff in from overseas through diplomatic channels and it is now impossible to bring them direct I have to bring them in through another arab country.

Maiden


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## GM1

> There is an Indian restaurant or was in Midan Aswan were the chef is Indian but the place is always empty in fact it may be closed now as I haven't been there since New Years eve where my party of 4 where the only people in eating.


yes it is closed, the shop is for rent now.


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## ArabianNights

Thanks all for your responses. Wow, I am amazed! When I first visited Cairo back in March/April time, I could not find an Indian restaurant ANYWHERE, until I eventually found one near Lebanon Sq. called Bukhari. It was an 'expensive' restaurant far from where we were. I found this restaurant through speaking to many locals, asking where there is an Indian/Asian restaurant where we could have dinner. A lot of them told me that there are not many, if any in Cairo, although it would be nice to have one. This is not research by all means - but considering that Cairo is a major capital city, which receives lots of tourists from the UK and others, including the Indian subcontinent, there would be a market there, not relying on the local. From what you all are saying, I could be wrong! 

Generally tho, a bit off topic, there seems to be a lack of variety in terms of food here - we get the usual American fast food brands (McDonalds, Hardies etc) and then one or two Syrian/Lebanese place, maybe one chinese restaurant somewhere and then thats it. Maybe it because I do not *know* where good places to eat are, but apart from all these places, Egyptian cities and towns are lalden with endless sandwich joints. What do Egyptians eat? The only thing I have seen is foul, Molakhiya, felafel sandwiches, chicken sandwiches, lamb sandwiches, cheese sandwiches and an endless list of other kinds of sandwiches. Do Egyptians live on sandwiches? Oh and Koshari!


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## marimar

ArabianNights said:


> Generally tho, a bit off topic, there seems to be a lack of variety in terms of food here - we get the usual American fast food brands (McDonalds, Hardies etc) and then one or two Syrian/Lebanese place, maybe one chinese restaurant somewhere and then thats it. Maybe it because I do not *know* where good places to eat are, but apart from all these places, Egyptian cities and towns are lalden with endless sandwich joints. What do Egyptians eat? The only thing I have seen is foul, Molakhiya, felafel sandwiches, chicken sandwiches, lamb sandwiches, cheese sandwiches and an endless list of other kinds of sandwiches. Do Egyptians live on sandwiches? Oh and Koshari!



Well I think considering Egypt is considered a third world country and is going through economic and revolutionary troubles, people here generally are more worried about putting food on the table to feed their families rather than eating out which is usually expensive.
Yes,I know there are wealthy Egyptians who enjoy eating out but a majority of the population are on or below the poverty line and eating out is considered a luxury and not an everyday thing.
As to their cuisine, yes most Egyptians do eat just sandwiches,koshiri,foul and falafel.....its local, cheap and filling!!!


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## hhaddad

marimar said:


> Well I think considering Egypt is considered a third world country and is going through economic and revolutionary troubles, people here generally are more worried about putting food on the table to feed their families rather than eating out which is usually expensive.
> Yes,I know there are wealthy Egyptians who enjoy eating out but a majority of the population are on or below the poverty line and eating out is considered a luxury and not an everyday thing.
> As to their cuisine, yes most Egyptians do eat just sandwiches,koshiri,foul and falafel.....its local, cheap and filling!!!


To open a restaurant normally you need a vacant commercial unit and in a good area (a lot of traffic) .The rents for such units these days are astronomic. I saw an ad for a laundrette in agouza 60sq metres for 650000 l.e. freehold.How long for a return on investment???


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## MaidenScotland

ArabianNights said:


> Thanks all for your responses. Wow, I am amazed! When I first visited Cairo back in March/April time, I could not find an Indian restaurant ANYWHERE, until I eventually found one near Lebanon Sq. called Bukhari. It was an 'expensive' restaurant far from where we were. I found this restaurant through speaking to many locals, asking where there is an Indian/Asian restaurant where we could have dinner. A lot of them told me that there are not many, if any in Cairo, although it would be nice to have one. This is not research by all means - but considering that Cairo is a major capital city, which receives lots of tourists from the UK and others, including the Indian subcontinent, there would be a market there, not relying on the local. From what you all are saying, I could be wrong!
> 
> Generally tho, a bit off topic, there seems to be a lack of variety in terms of food here - we get the usual American fast food brands (McDonalds, Hardies etc) and then one or two Syrian/Lebanese place, maybe one chinese restaurant somewhere and then thats it. Maybe it because I do not *know* where good places to eat are, but apart from all these places, Egyptian cities and towns are lalden with endless sandwich joints. What do Egyptians eat? The only thing I have seen is foul, Molakhiya, felafel sandwiches, chicken sandwiches, lamb sandwiches, cheese sandwiches and an endless list of other kinds of sandwiches. Do Egyptians live on sandwiches? Oh and Koshari!




I think you will find most locals wouldn't know if an Indian was a couple of streets away. I have eaten at Bukhari it is awful (they also have one in Maadi) there is/used to be a pretty good Indian restaurant in the Ramses Hilton and of course the Menia House plus it's sister restaurant on Gamat el Dowel. You are mistaken about lots of tourists as they tourist trade has dropped right off so I would not start a business on the strength of the tourist industry. Chinese restaurants... plenty in Cairo. 

Maiden


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## ArabianNights

Thanks for the comments to everyone. Youve given me plenty oof food for thought.


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## marenostrum

ArabianNights said:


> Thanks for the comments to everyone. Youve given me plenty oof food for thought.


my two pence here, I think if you are opting for a restaurant be prepared to splash the cash and make it luxurious. I think a luxury establishment might do ok. You can attract rich egyptians and corporate foreigners. Sometimes these people are not too bothered about the food but more about the ambience and being "seen" by the right people.

But to have such an establishment it would mean many ££££££££ to bring it up to standard. The location would also have to be in an expensive area.

Why don't you open a restaurant in the UK?


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## Lanason

There is an Excellent Indian at the Karvin hotel in heliopolis and also the holiday inn is ok

Neither are bursting but both making a living. Egyptians are not known for liking hot Indian food.


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## canuck2010

I have seen about a dozen restaurants close in Maadi area since revolution. 

One concept that might work is a small fast food kiosk. Several have opened around the city, mostly selling burgers, and have done very well.


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## MaidenScotland

Personally I would use a restaurant that was guaranteed 100% non smoking, non smoking staff is also a must as I dont want someone standing beside me that has just been outside for a quick smoke.


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## Elle72

ArabianNights said:


> Hi All,
> 
> As most probably know, I am here in Egypt studying Arabic for a year. My husband will be joining me here in Egypt soon and he is *thinking* of starting a small restaurant business in Cairo. We think there is a huge market for an Asian (Pakistani/Indian restaurant) and I was wondering what the actual steps needed to be taken are. I realize that there will be a lot of red tape involved, LOTS of Patience and having to deal with scrupulous Egyptians (!!) but we are determined to make this work! Is there a specific start up amount we need (money)? Visas? Work permits etc? Initially, my husband will be the chef and eventually, if we hire one, they will be coming in from overseas, but waiters etc, we plan to hire locally.
> 
> I would appreciate any input whatsoever!
> 
> Thanks


Try a buffet instead of an a la carte it will definitely work


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## bat

Elle72 said:


> Try a buffet instead of an a la carte it will definitely work


You are joking, a buffet!!!


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## Elle72

bat said:


> You are joking, a buffet!!!


Yeah I ve never seen one in Cairo before plus 50 L.E a person for lunch or dinner will be a good deal or what?


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## bat

Elle72 said:


> Yeah I ve never seen one in Cairo before plus 50 L.E a person for lunch or dinner will be a good deal or what?


Go to buffet breakfast in Sheraton, Hilton etc and see what happens to the breakfast buffet, then see how much gets put in a bag for later, how much gets put on each plate that is wasted and how much Egyptians can eat.
The price would then have to be in the hundreds.
It also becomes like a rugby scrum.


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## Moe599

Hey Arabian Nights. 

FYI. I am in the process of opening up a Business here in Maadi. It's in advertising so I can't help you with anything relating to the food. Though I agree with others that it would take a lot of $$$ to do it right. What I can advise you of, is that the process of incorporating here is a long and arduous one. I have went through 5 different lawyers before I found the right one. At least I hope I did! The price to incorporate here is all across the board. Obviously once they know you are a foreigner they see $$$$$. I found one in Maadi who speaks English and most of the staff also speaks English as well. FYI. He charged me $1200 plus fees to complete the corporation process. It was about average price. Let me know if you want his information. It might help you. 

PS. I love Indian food and I think the Far East restaurant in Maadi has open buffet of Fridays and Saturdays.

Sent from my iPhone using ExpatForum


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## ArabianNights

marenostrum said:


> my two pence here, I think if you are opting for a restaurant be prepared to splash the cash and make it luxurious. I think a luxury establishment might do ok. You can attract rich egyptians and corporate foreigners. Sometimes these people are not too bothered about the food but more about the ambience and being "seen" by the right people.
> 
> But to have such an establishment it would mean many ££££££££ to bring it up to standard. The location would also have to be in an expensive area.
> 
> Why don't you open a restaurant in the UK?



Marenostrum - I think you have read my mind!! You are absolutely right about the luxury thing and I am thinking along those lines. This is something that I think would work in Egypt. Of course, more research would be done tho. The UK is not really an option, mainly because the UK is literally drenched in Asian restaurants, especially Pakistani/Indian ones. Competition would be too intense and enough to eat us up. In Egypt, I could do Luxury, with a good ambiance and I think it might work  In the UK, I cannot do luxury, as people there are not prepared to pay the higher amount, especially since you can get a cheap Biryani down the road for 3 Pounds...


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## ArabianNights

MaidenScotland said:


> Personally I would use a restaurant that was guaranteed 100% non smoking, non smoking staff is also a must as I dont want someone standing beside me that has just been outside for a quick smoke.



I second that a billion times. One thing I HATE about Egypt and the EU Countries that dont yet have the smoking restriction, is the smoking in public places. I suffer from Asthma and when I was living in Cairo, I suffered for months after I arrived back in the UK, as my asthma went from virtually non existent to near-chronic, along with a deathly sensitivity to cigarette smoke. I am always arguing with the waiters at the local cafe shops around here about it... but they cannot do anything, apart from offer me a seat in a "non-smoking" area... which is usually a table right next to the "smoking" area!


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## ArabianNights

Moe599 said:


> Hey Arabian Nights.
> 
> FYI. I am in the process of opening up a Business here in Maadi. It's in advertising so I can't help you with anything relating to the food. Though I agree with others that it would take a lot of $$$ to do it right. What I can advise you of, is that the process of incorporating here is a long and arduous one. I have went through 5 different lawyers before I found the right one. At least I hope I did! The price to incorporate here is all across the board. Obviously once they know you are a foreigner they see $$$$$. I found one in Maadi who speaks English and most of the staff also speaks English as well. FYI. He charged me $1200 plus fees to complete the corporation process. It was about average price. Let me know if you want his information. It might help you.
> 
> PS. I love Indian food and I think the Far East restaurant in Maadi has open buffet of Fridays and Saturdays.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using ExpatForum



Moe thanks for the input - I know how hard it is typing away on those iphone keyboards. Sadly mine was stolen 2 weeks back  

It would be awesome, if I could have the Lawyers' details... I much appreciate it  Apart from the incorporation procedure, what other procedures did you have to go thru. I read you need to get a certificate from a local bank and that setting up a company is around 100 UK Pounds. 

This is what I found, from The World Bank website:

Fees for company establishment:

- Notary public fee: 0.25% of capital ( minimum of EGP 10 and a maximum of EGP 1,000 ).
- Establishment fees: 0.1% of capital (minimum of EGP 100 and maximum of EGP 1,000 according to Article 17 (d) of the Companies Law).
- Commercial Syndicate fee: EGP 125 (for capital less than or equal to EGP 500,000) or EGP 250 (for capital more than EGP 500,000).
- Publication fee: EGP 150 (for a limited liability company in Arabic) or EGP 300 (for a limited liability company in Arabic and English).
- Chamber of Commerce fees: 0.2% of capital (minimum of EGP 24 and maximum of EGP 2,000) in addition to EGP 29 for the issuance of operation certificate.
- Commercial registration: EGP 51.
- Issuance of operation certificate: EGP 29.

link:

Starting a Business in Egypt, Arab Rep. - Doing Business - World Bank Group


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## txlstewart

Won't it be hard to run a restaurant in Cairo whilst studying in Alex?


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## bat

ArabianNights said:


> Moe thanks for the input - I know how hard it is typing away on those iphone keyboards. Sadly mine was stolen 2 weeks back
> 
> It would be awesome, if I could have the Lawyers' details... I much appreciate it  Apart from the incorporation procedure, what other procedures did you have to go thru. I read you need to get a certificate from a local bank and that setting up a company is around 100 UK Pounds.
> 
> This is what I found, from The World Bank website:
> 
> Fees for company establishment:
> 
> - Notary public fee: 0.25% of capital ( minimum of EGP 10 and a maximum of EGP 1,000 ).
> - Establishment fees: 0.1% of capital (minimum of EGP 100 and maximum of EGP 1,000 according to Article 17 (d) of the Companies L
> - Commercial Syndicate fee: EGP 125 (for capital less than or equal to EGP 500,000) or EGP 250 (for capital more than EGP 500,000).
> - Publication fee: EGP 150 (for a limited liability company in Arabic) or EGP 300 (for a limited liability company in Arabic and English).
> - Chamber of Commerce fees: 0.2% of capital (minimum of EGP 24 and maximum of EGP 2,000) in addition to EGP 29 for the issuance of operation certificate.
> - Commercial registration: EGP 51.
> - Issuance of operation certificate: EGP 29.
> 
> link:
> 
> Starting a Business in Egypt, Arab Rep. - Doing Business - World Bank
> Group




Have you thought about the hours you'd be working!!
Think high end market want access to the wee small hours, no 12 pm closing in this fair city
Bat


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## MaidenScotland

ArabianNights said:


> I second that a billion times. One thing I HATE about Egypt and the EU Countries that dont yet have the smoking restriction, is the smoking in public places. I suffer from Asthma and when I was living in Cairo, I suffered for months after I arrived back in the UK, as my asthma went from virtually non existent to near-chronic, along with a deathly sensitivity to cigarette smoke. I am always arguing with the waiters at the local cafe shops around here about it... but they cannot do anything, apart from offer me a seat in a "non-smoking" area... which is usually a table right next to the "smoking" area!




In Deals when you ask for a non smoking table they lift the ashtray off it!!


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## MaidenScotland

I used to go to the Thai buffet at the Marriot and also the one at the Sofitel for Friday lunch, the tai buffet was about 160LE plus taxes, the Sofitel one is about 190 LE plus taxes. Egyptians pile there plates up with everything there is even if they dont like it.. go to an Egyptian wedding and you get killed in the scrum once the food is out.


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## MaidenScotland

ArabianNights said:


> Moe thanks for the input - I know how hard it is typing away on those iphone keyboards. Sadly mine was stolen 2 weeks back
> 
> It would be awesome, if I could have the Lawyers' details... I much appreciate it  Apart from the incorporation procedure, what other procedures did you have to go thru. I read you need to get a certificate from a local bank and that setting up a company is around 100 UK Pounds.
> 
> This is what I found, from The World Bank website:
> 
> Fees for company establishment:
> 
> - Notary public fee: 0.25% of capital ( minimum of EGP 10 and a maximum of EGP 1,000 ).
> - Establishment fees: 0.1% of capital (minimum of EGP 100 and maximum of EGP 1,000 according to Article 17 (d) of the Companies Law).
> - Commercial Syndicate fee: EGP 125 (for capital less than or equal to EGP 500,000) or EGP 250 (for capital more than EGP 500,000).
> - Publication fee: EGP 150 (for a limited liability company in Arabic) or EGP 300 (for a limited liability company in Arabic and English).
> - Chamber of Commerce fees: 0.2% of capital (minimum of EGP 24 and maximum of EGP 2,000) in addition to EGP 29 for the issuance of operation certificate.
> - Commercial registration: EGP 51.
> - Issuance of operation certificate: EGP 29.
> 
> link:
> 
> Starting a Business in Egypt, Arab Rep. - Doing Business - World Bank Group




Plus all the baksheesh you need to each and every person you have to contact to get it up and running, when they see the money you are spending they are looking for more than 10 le.


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## bat

MaidenScotland said:


> Plus all the baksheesh you need to each and every person you have to contact to get it up and running, when they see the money you are spending they are looking for more than 10 le.


Yes, and restaurant, is big bucks, other wise you don't get your licence,
There is a shop near or in korba Heliopolis, and for the last 20 yrs has been done up at least 5 times into some kind of eating coffee place, furniture inside, name on out side and sometimes opening soon sign, but has never opened,and I think the reason is a licence, for some reason they can't get a licence,but obviously the owner still rents it out to unsuspecting people so beware the "licence, no problem", bit.
Bat


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## MaidenScotland

And of course there is the subject of alcohol, no point in having a curry if you cant have a lager and this comes from someone who doesnt really drink


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## marenostrum

If you have other income in uk then try it out. You only live once.

We don't know your financial situation, maybe your husband is an asian wizzkid with a landlord portfolio of 150 properties  so if you have money to invest then why not.
But if you have a mortgage and young kids and your finances are iffy i would not bother.

But if you decide to invest try to target the high end market, you won't get footie fans here on the dole that go for a curry after a football match like in the UK. Your clientele will be different.

I used to live in Rusholme and every single one of those restaurants was packed and the buffet style ones were really raking it in but that was in the mid to late 90s so I don't know what is going on now I guess that with the mass immigration in the UK many more of these restaurants / takeaways will have opened since.


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## MaidenScotland

New Asian restaurant opening on 26th July St Zamalek.


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## ArabianNights

Marenostrum - thanks so much for your positive comments and your encouragement!! I guess I need to do a bit more research and devise a proper business plan, before I even think about parting with cash. This is just an idea right now and there are many things to think about - especially the alcohol issue. It might be a problem for us, because I know Egyptians still do it, it is against our religion (Islam) to deal with it... including serving it and I would never have alcohol on a premises that I either live on or in my business. If this alcohol thing turns out to be an issue then this might be the deciding factor. On the other hand tho, consideriing its Egypt and that most people would not expect to see alcohol everywhere, we could probably get away with non-alcoholic drinks instead. I have seen many places that serve cocktails and magharitas etc, that are non-alcoholic.... I think the beer/lager and curry trend started in the UK, it is certainly not a usual part of the Pakistani/Indian food menus in India or Pakistan and serving alcohol, I would think would be the benefit of the expat community. Will see how this turns out.... nothing happens overnight!

Maiden - interesting abt the Zamelek restaurant openiing.... maybe a 'research' trip to Cairo is long due! I really do miss Cairo, being in Alex!


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