# ANOTHER tax question & how much you need to register as resident



## Tel Boy (Jul 1, 2014)

If my wife and I sell up in the uk then buy outright in spain, then still have a enough to live on. Do we pay penalty tax for buying in spain and to show a large amount of savings, surely we wouldn't have to show a income, confused.com.


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## extranjero (Nov 16, 2012)

Tel Boy said:


> If my wife and I sell up in the uk then buy outright in spain, then still have a enough to live on. Do we pay penalty tax for buying in spain and to show a large amount of savings, surely we wouldn't have to show a income, confused.com.


Depends in what part of the year you move to Spain. less than 183 days in a Spain Jan-Dec, and you avoid cgt on the profits of your house sale.
Yes you still have to show you have sufficient income when you register.


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## Tel Boy (Jul 1, 2014)

Thanks for that,but if I have sufficient funds to cover my stay for many years do I still need to show a so called income. Basically do my savings count as an income.


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## extranjero (Nov 16, 2012)

Tel Boy said:


> Thanks for that,but if I have sufficient funds to cover my stay for many years do I still need to show a so called income. Basically do my savings count as an income.


If you can show you each have 6000 euros savings, or have an income of at least 600 euros per person per month , that will be accepted
I am sure I will be corrected, if wrong.


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

Tel Boy said:


> Thanks for that,but if I have sufficient funds to cover my stay for many years do I still need to show a so called income. Basically do my savings count as an income.


See previous posts on this topic - please let's not replicate them all here.

It all depends who you ask, where and when.

Some say 600€/person /month and/or 6000€/person in a Spanish bank. Others just say savings in a Spanish bank - so who knows!


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## larryzx (Jul 2, 2014)

Tel Boy said:


> Thanks for that,but if I have sufficient funds to cover my stay for many years do I still need to show a so called income. Basically do my savings count as an income.


The info I have from the police says 

_-Proof of sufficient resources (minimum 5,007.81 EUROS)_

For reference this the info:- 

This is what the police say you require to register on EU Citizens Register (Sometimes incorrectly called Residencia)

DOCUMENTACIÓN ACREDITATIVA PARA CERTIFICADO DE REGISTRO
1. Copia de pasaporte o documento nacional de identidad, válido y en vigor, del solicitante o copia de los mismos caducados y de la solicitud de renovación. 2. Tasa pagada (10.0 euros)

3. Los documentos que a continuación se detallan según los casos:
TRABAJADOR CUENTA AJENA.- Uno de los siguientes documentos: - Declaración de contratación del empleador

Incluyendo nombre de la empresa, C.I.F. de la empresa, Código Cuenta Cotización en la SS de la empresa.
- Certificado de empleo
- Contrato de trabajo registrado en el S.P. Empleo - Alta en la SS

O bien consentimiento para la comprobación de datos en los ficheros de la Tesorería General de la Seguridad Social.

TRABAJADOR CUENTA PROPIA.- Uno de los siguientes documentos:
- Inscripción en el censo de actividades económicas.
-	Inscripción del establecimiento mercantil en el Registro Mercantil. - Alta en la SS
O bien consentimiento para la comprobación de datos en los ficheros de la Tesorería General de la Seguridad Social.

NO TRABAJA.- Todos los documentos siguientes:
- Seguro de enfermedad con cobertura durante su período de residencia equivalente a la proporcionada por el Sistema Nacional de Salud (pensionistas será suficiente con documento que acredite que tienen derecho a asistencia con cargo al Estado que le paga la pensión).

- Prueba de recursos suficientes (mínimo 5,007.81 euros)

ESTUDIANTES.
¬Posibilidad 1:
•	Matrícula
•	Seguro de enfermedad o tarjeta sanitaria europea válida durante todo el período de residencia.
•	Declaración de que posee recursos suficientes.

Posibilidad 2:
Acreditación de ser participante en UE de intercambio educativo


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

@larryzx - but it's different everywhere. Each of the extranjaria seem to interpret the 'rules' differently!


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

larryzx said:


> The info I have from the police says
> 
> _-Proof of sufficient resources (minimum 5,007.81 EUROS)_


where did that figure come from - because the actual Boletín doesn't give a figure



snikpoh said:


> @larryzx - but it's different everywhere. Each of the extranjaria seem to interpret the 'rules' differently!



as you say.....


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## larryzx (Jul 2, 2014)

snikpoh said:


> @larryzx - but it's different everywhere. Each of the extranjaria seem to interpret the 'rules' differently!



Well I guess you are right. 

My info is a notice produced by Central Government and seemingly circulated nationally to all extranjarias, not the 'local' national police station where I work. But as it was last year, I think, maybe the actual amount has been increased to allow for inflation.

I copied the original hopefully to avoid any translation misinterpretation.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

larryzx said:


> Well I guess you are right.
> 
> My info is a notice produced by Central Government and seemingly circulated nationally to all extranjarias, not the 'local' national police station where I work. But as it was last year, I think, maybe the actual amount has been increased to allow for inflation.
> 
> I copied the original hopefully to avoid any translation misinterpretation.


I'd be grateful for a link, or if you can get your hands on a copy if there's no link, send it to me

is it guidelines though, or rules?

as I say, the boletín doesn't give a monetary figure at all


our local extranjeria has been asking for over 600€ a month per person from the time the requirements were introduced


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## larryzx (Jul 2, 2014)

xabiachica said:


> I'd be grateful for a link, or if you can get your hands on a copy if there's no link, send it to me
> 
> is it guidelines though, or rules?
> 
> ...


I photographed the notice when it was first posted, and put it on my PC, using an OCR program, but did not include the Government Dept header. I see the last date for amending my word doc is 31st May 2013. That is what I have reproduced here.

I will check through my images (not easy as I do not have a property index for my photos). I may still have the actual photo.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

larryzx said:


> I photographed the notice when it was first posted, and put it on my PC. less the Government Dept header. I see the last date for amending my word doc is 31st May 2013. That is what I have reproduced here.
> 
> I will check through my images (not easy as I do not have a property index for my photos). I may still have the actual photo.


not to worry - if it doesn't have the header or an official ref number it won't help me


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## larryzx (Jul 2, 2014)

xabiachica said:


> not to worry - if it doesn't have the header or an official ref number it won't help me


If you tell me how I will send you the image. Which I have now found.

Opps false call. I found an image of Health cover requirements. I will keep looking


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## larryzx (Jul 2, 2014)

larryzx said:


> If you tell me how I will send you the image. Which I have now found.
> 
> Opps false call. I found an image of Health cover requirements. I will keep looking


Xabiachic. This is an extract I just found on my PC in the police/resident folder. I cannot say where I got it from, but I am sure it was an official source.

It may help you track down the Government web page:- 

The possession of resources that are more than the amount established each year by the State General Budgets Act “Ley de Presupuestos Generales de Estado


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## CapnBilly (Jun 7, 2011)

The amount quoted by Larryzx is more or less the non contributory basic state pension, which is €5,122.60 in 2013. This is the amount which the legislation says is the maximum amount required, although they are supposed to take the personal circumstances into account.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

CapnBilly said:


> The amount quoted by Larryzx is more or less the non contributory basic state pension, which is €5,122.60 in 2013. This is the amount which the legislation says is the maximum amount required, although they are supposed to take the personal circumstances into account.


yes I'd worked that out, thanks 

I've never seen an actual figure in the legislation though, just something along the lines of 'sufficient to be without recourse to public funds' - so that figure can & will change

I was really hoping to see an official figure at long last!!


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## CapnBilly (Jun 7, 2011)

xabiachica said:


> yes I'd worked that out, thanks
> 
> I've never seen an actual figure in the legislation though, just something along the lines of 'sufficient to be without recourse to public funds' - so that figure can & will change
> 
> I was really hoping to see an official figure at long last!!


Well, if it says it the minimum state pension, surely that's a figure, which is published each year.


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## Chester50 (Aug 2, 2014)

Hi All

I went to the police station in Fuengirola yesterday and was told the requirement for the Mijas area is either a regular income of 361.30 euros each month or savings in a Spanish bank of 5058.20 euros.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

CapnBilly said:


> Well, if it says it the minimum state pension, surely that's a figure, which is published each year.


as I said - which will change


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Chester50 said:


> Hi All
> 
> I went to the police station in Fuengirola yesterday and was told the requirement for the Mijas area is either a regular income of 361.30 euros each month or savings in a Spanish bank of 5058.20 euros.


:welcome:


only 361.30€ a month!!!

how on earth could anyone just arriving realistically support themselves on that?


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## Chester50 (Aug 2, 2014)

Thats what I thought. That would just about cover your food


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## Barriej (Jul 23, 2012)

xabiachica said:


> :welcome:
> 
> 
> only 361.30€ a month!!!
> ...


Bit unreal if you think about it. I wouldn't leave the house for that little a week! 

It's worse than the uk basic pension of £113.10 a week (£452.40 a month) per person. Which is bad enough. But people seem to be able to live on it. 
I certainly wouldn't contemplate relocating to spain if I only had a basic uk pension.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Barriej said:


> Bit unreal if you think about it. I wouldn't leave the house for that little a week!
> 
> It's worse than the uk basic pension of £113.10 a week (£452.40 a month) per person. Which is bad enough. But people seem to be able to live on it.
> I certainly wouldn't contemplate relocating to spain if I only had a basic uk pension.


the basic Spanish pension is more or less of that order, as is the long term paro payment - that's why I'm so very surprised to see that low figure

the original legislation says that basically you have to have above the level of income below which the govt would help


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## extranjero (Nov 16, 2012)

xabiachica said:


> the basic Spanish pension is more or less of that order, as is the long term paro payment - that's why I'm so very surprised to see that low figure
> 
> the original legislation says that basically you have to have above the level of income below which the govt would help


The Spanish pension is much more generous than the UK one, near the €1000 mark.
In fact most of the pensions in Europe are more generous than ours!


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

extranjero said:


> The Spanish pension is much more generous than the UK one, near the €1000 mark.
> In fact most of the pensions in Europe are more generous than ours!


I mean the basic non-contributary pension which is in the 400&something € a month region


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## CapnBilly (Jun 7, 2011)

xabiachica said:


> as I said - which will change


Well, as I'm sure you know, they are not allowed under the EU legislation to stipulate a figure

"Member States may not lay down a fixed amount which they regard as "sufficient resources", but they must take into account the personal situation of the person concerned. In all cases this amount shall not be higher than the threshold below which nationals of the host Member State become eligible for social assistance, or, where this criterion is not applicable, higher than the minimum social security pension paid by the host Member State."

so all the legislation does is quote the EU legislation, and its likely therefore that the figure will change each year, albeit not by much. I think the non contributory pension was increased by 0.25% this year.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

CapnBilly said:


> *Well, as I'm sure you know, they are not allowed under the EU legislation to stipulate a figure*
> 
> "Member States may not lay down a fixed amount which they regard as "sufficient resources", but they must take into account the personal situation of the person concerned. In all cases this amount shall not be higher than the threshold below which nationals of the host Member State become eligible for social assistance, or, where this criterion is not applicable, higher than the minimum social security pension paid by the host Member State."
> 
> so all the legislation does is quote the EU legislation, and its likely therefore that the figure will change each year, albeit not by much. I think the non contributory pension was increased by 0.25% this year.


yes I did know  


which is why I was so very surprised to be told that there was an official document with a figure stipulated 

and why I would have liked to get hold of a copy


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## CapnBilly (Jun 7, 2011)

xabiachica said:


> yes I did know
> 
> 
> which is why I was so very surprised to be told that there was an official document with a figure stipulated
> ...


well, it must be me, because if the legislation says sufficient resources are those set out in the State Budget to receive a non contributory benefit i.e pension, then the official figure is the one set out in the State Budget. 

I'm not sure what else you would expect to see.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

CapnBilly said:


> well, it must be me, because if the legislation says sufficient resources are those set out in the State Budget to receive a non contributory benefit i.e pension, then the official figure is the one set out in the State Budget.
> 
> I'm not sure what else you would expect to see.



yes, sufficient resources - which as we agree is a figure which will change 

but the poster said that the official paperwork had an actual figure written down - that's what I was questioning


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## CapnBilly (Jun 7, 2011)

xabiachica said:


> yes, sufficient resources - which as we agree is a figure which will change
> 
> but the poster said that the official paperwork had an actual figure written down - that's what I was questioning


So the figure is written down in the State Budget is the figure each year. Isn't that the same thing. Its clearly stated in the legislation.

"La acreditación de la posesión de recursos suficientes, sea por ingresos periódicos, incluyendo rentas de trabajo o de otro tipo, o por la tenencia de un patrimonio, se efectuará por cualquier medio de prueba admitido en derecho, tales como títulos de propiedad, cheques certificados, documentación justificativa de obtención de rentas de capital o tarjetas de crédito, aportando en este último supuesto una certificación bancaria actualizada que acredite la cantidad disponible como crédito de la citada tarjeta.

La valoración de la suficiencia de medios deberá efectuarse de manera individualizada, y en todo caso, teniendo en cuenta la situación personal y familiar del solicitante.

Se considerará acreditación suficiente para el cumplimiento de este requisito la tenencia de recursos que sean superiores al importe que cada año fije la Ley de Presupuestos Generales del Estado para generar el derecho a recibir una prestación no contributiva, teniendo en cuenta la situación personal y familiar del interesado"


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## larryzx (Jul 2, 2014)

Chester50 said:


> Hi All
> 
> I went to the police station in Fuengirola yesterday and was told the requirement for the Mijas area is either a regular income of 361.30 euros each month or savings in a Spanish bank of 5058.20 euros.


Thanks Chester , that would seem to be sufficient info for those who need to know, even if it does satisfy all !


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

larryzx said:


> Thanks Chester , that would seem to be sufficient info for those who need to know, even if it does satisfy all !


that's why we always say that the only figure that matters is the one the local extranjería wants you to have

the figure Chester was given is different to the one you quoted as 'official'


which is why we generally say 'it's about xxx€ '


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## larryzx (Jul 2, 2014)

duplicated post


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## larryzx (Jul 2, 2014)

xabiachica said:


> that's why we always say that the only figure that matters is the one the local extranjería wants you to have
> 
> the figure Chester was given is different to the one you quoted as 'official'
> 
> ...




Yes of course you are quite right, a difference of 50,39 euros, that is 1%. But I did say I copied the notice when it was first issued in May 2013, so allowing for inflation I guess that would be reasonable.: 5,007.81 in 2013, and as Chester found 5,058.20 now.

I expect to be shot at dawn.

Having created such a ‘storm in a teacup’ over something which I was quoting in the attempt to assist those who need to know, I will desist making any comments, for a while at least.


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## Tel Boy (Jul 1, 2014)

Thanks for all of your help, I hope I haven't caused to much upset . I must point out we are only 46. Pension time is some way off yet.All the best, lol.


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