# Your opinion about my expat package



## technologyc

Dear all,

I am currently in a processus for moving from France to Shanghai under - a priori - an expat package contract. I am working for a luxury fashion group (very known...), working in headoffice as IT Project Manager for CRM and Retail topics, with 5+ years of experience. Of course fluent in English and no Mandarin at all. The position they offer me is very similar, with a high flexibility request to be able to move sometimes in Japan, Singapor, Australia, i.e. whole Asia-Pacific.

--> My question is easy: what should I expect in term of salary, package benefits, etc. ?

Best regards!


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## Vincent China

technologyc said:


> Dear all,
> 
> I am currently in a processus for moving from France to Shanghai under - a priori - an expat package contract. I am working for a luxury fashion group (very known...), working in headoffice as IT Project Manager for CRM and Retail topics, with 5+ years of experience. Of course fluent in English and no Mandarin at all. The position they offer me is very similar, with a high flexibility request to be able to move sometimes in Japan, Singapor, Australia, i.e. whole Asia-Pacific.
> 
> --> My question is easy: what should I expect in term of salary, package benefits, etc. ?
> 
> Best regards!


Bonjour!

I'm French too, living in China.

In term of salary, I would say your actually salary +25 to 50% increase (depending of the benefits they are offering to you).

In my opinion, and according to your experience, your Package benefits should include:

MUST HAVE:
- Health insurance to cover you + your family
- Apartment rental (or at least a flat allowance equal to 75% of the rental fee)
- School fees if you have kids (very expensive here in China)

OPTIONAL:
- 1 moving allowance to send your goods back to France the day you are leaving China
- 1 Air ticket roundtrip / year to France (for all your family) for your holidays
- Mandarin courses for you and your wife on arrival ( to have some oral bases)
- 1 maid to take care of your kids 1 or 2 days / week
- 1 driver for you if you working place is far way from your home

Feel free to contact me if you need some other advices.

Vincent.


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## technologyc

Vincent China said:


> Bonjour!
> 
> I'm French too, living in China.
> 
> In term of salary, I would say your actually salary +25 to 50% increase (depending of the benefits they are offering to you).
> 
> In my opinion, and according to your experience, your Package benefits should include:
> 
> MUST HAVE:
> - Health insurance to cover you + your family
> - Apartment rental (or at least a flat allowance equal to 75% of the rental fee)
> - School fees if you have kids (very expensive here in China)
> 
> OPTIONAL:
> - 1 moving allowance to send your goods back to France the day you are leaving China
> - 1 Air ticket roundtrip / year to France (for all your family) for your holidays
> - Mandarin courses for you and your wife on arrival ( to have some oral bases)
> - 1 maid to take care of your kids 1 or 2 days / week
> - 1 driver for you if you working place is far way from your home
> 
> Feel free to contact me if you need some other advices.
> 
> Vincent.


Hi Vincent,

Thank you for your reply. 

Actually I am single and very flexible regarding travels I will have to do ; I think it is also a chance to ask more in term of salary, etc. You told me I could ask a 25-50% salary increase, it's strange because most of people say that I should expect the same salary or even less than my current one.. So good news 

Never thought about the moving allowance, thanks for the suggestion!

For apartment rental, what should I expect for a 1 or 2 bedroom flat in the city center (modern, clean, chic if possible and with concierge) ?

Best regards,


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## Vincent China

For salary, actually, maybe they won't propose you any increase but for sure living overseas will increase your living cost. It's the good time to negotiate with them. (And like all negotiation, you need to ask high increase (like 50%) if you want to have medium one (20-25%)

Yes moving allowance is important because it's cost between 2K and 4-5K EUR depending on how many items you have to ship (this is the industry I'm working in)

Last point for rental cost, I'm based in South China so I don't know the market in Shanghai but here, a nice 1-2bedroom flat is around 7K to 10K RMB (+ deposit + real estate agent commission). There are lots of furnished apartments in China, not like in France.
It's better for you to check this point on the famous French website " Bonjour Chine "

Vincent.


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## technologyc

Vincent China said:


> For salary, actually, maybe they won't propose you any increase but for sure living overseas will increase your living cost. It's the good time to negotiate with them. (And like all negotiation, you need to ask high increase (like 50%) if you want to have medium one (20-25%)
> 
> Yes moving allowance is important because it's cost between 2K and 4-5K EUR depending on how many items you have to ship (this is the industry I'm working in)
> 
> Last point for rental cost, I'm based in South China so I don't know the market in Shanghai but here, a nice 1-2bedroom flat is around 7K to 10K RMB (+ deposit + real estate agent commission). There are lots of furnished apartments in China, not like in France.
> It's better for you to check this point on the famous French website " Bonjour Chine "
> 
> Vincent.


Oh yeah I didn't know that website ! Cool.

They highlight many agencies (shanghailanelife.net, doozyproperty.com, ...) which offer to assist in the first arrival days, can be also something to consider if the company doesn't any specific help to provide.


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## Eric in china

If you are bound for Shanghai then be warned the air is polluted for most of the year, likewise Beijing. Many companies are offering expats more money to work there because of the bad air. This factor should help you with your salary negotiations.

Also the traffic in Shanghai is horrendous during the rush hours so try to find an appartment near work if at all possible. Housing in Shanghai is among the most expensive in China.

I lived there for 3 years in a pigeon hut for a room.


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## Vincent China

Eric in china said:


> If you are bound for Shanghai then be warned the air is polluted for most of the year, likewise Beijing. Many companies are offering expats more money to work there because of the bad air. This factor should help you with your salary negotiations.


Yes Eric is right.
Companies like Hitachi or Coca Cola or offering up to 15% of extra salary as "pollution risk allowance"


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## Eric in china

Vincent China said:


> Yes Eric is right.
> Companies like Hitachi or Coca Cola or offering up to 15% of extra salary as "pollution risk allowance"


I lived there long before the pollution so missed out on the extra dosh, But I had to turn down five appartments before they forced me to take a place I hated.


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## technologyc

Eric in china said:


> If you are bound for Shanghai then be warned the air is polluted for most of the year, likewise Beijing. Many companies are offering expats more money to work there because of the bad air. This factor should help you with your salary negotiations.
> 
> Also the traffic in Shanghai is horrendous during the rush hours so try to find an appartment near work if at all possible. Housing in Shanghai is among the most expensive in China.
> 
> I lived there for 3 years in a pigeon hut for a room.


Ok I see ; I plan to put more or less 10.000CNY / month in the housing, so I believe I can have something cosy and fully renovated (if not new) in Puxi.
Regarding negociation my company is not so used to transfer foreigners, especially the local HR (while Hong-Kong HR is much much more used) so I don't think I will speak them about a "pollution allowance"  But OK I understand the idea.


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## Eric in china

technologyc said:


> Ok I see ; I plan to put more or less 10.000CNY / month in the housing, so I believe I can have something cosy and fully renovated (if not new) in Puxi.
> Regarding negociation my company is not so used to transfer foreigners, especially the local HR (while Hong-Kong HR is much much more used) so I don't think I will speak them about a "pollution allowance"  But OK I understand the idea.


Do not let them choose an appartment or condo for you, arrive first and stay in a hotel so you can look at appartments yourself. The Chinese do not understand an expats choice in housing. And the place must have security guards, they are called Boan in Chinese, this is required and the PSB will need to see the appartment before you move in so they can approve the place.

You must register with the local police on arrival.

HR do not know what they are doing when it comes to making the work permit etc and medical so expect to be messed about a tad. I have been here 20 years so I now tell them what to do each time I take a new job.

Each district has different rules, where I am now I had to fit an alarm system to keep the PSB happy, only cost 2k RMB and company paid for it.


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## technologyc

Eric in china said:


> Do not let them choose an appartment or condo for you, arrive first and stay in a hotel so you can look at appartments yourself. The Chinese do not understand an expats choice in housing. And the place must have security guards, they are called Boan in Chinese, this is required and the PSB will need to see the appartment before you move in so they can approve the place.
> 
> You must register with the local police on arrival.
> 
> HR do not know what they are doing when it comes to making the work permit etc and medical so expect to be messed about a tad. I have been here 20 years so I now tell them what to do each time I take a new job.
> 
> Each district has different rules, where I am now I had to fit an alarm system to keep the PSB happy, only cost 2k RMB and company paid for it.


Arf..

Yes for the police I was aware.
Sorry what is "PSB" ? You speak about security guards, you mean Shanghai is not safe ?


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## Eric in china

technologyc said:


> Arf..
> 
> Yes for the police I was aware.
> Sorry what is "PSB" ? You speak about security guards, you mean Shanghai is not safe ?


PSB (Public Security Bureau) and Shanghai is safe but it is a PSB requirement that all expats live in a building that has security guards, most buildings in China do have guards as a matter of course.

This is to protect them, because if anything should happen to you the PSB are held responsible.


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## technologyc

Eric in china said:


> PSB (Public Security Bureau) and Shanghai is safe but it is a PSB requirement that all expats live in a building that has security guards, most buildings in China do have guards as a matter of course.
> 
> This is to protect them, because if anything should happen to you the PSB are held responsible.


Ah ok understood!


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## cschrd2

Never had an apartment checked by PSB, maybe that's for a local locality but in bigger cities you just take a registration paper and go to the local police office for registration.
For work & residence permit you get into China on a single entry Z-visa, fix your work permit and within 30 days report to the local PSB (immigration bureau) with your labor certificate and some paperwork. Pretty efficient process.
For housing I would agree, stay I'm a hotel or serviced apartment then you can check stuff yourself. Location and decoration are personal.


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## badsector

Just to share my expat package for manufacturing industry.

Company relocated me to northern china Shaanxi. 
HOD Engineering.

Current Basic Salary 
USD2000 overseas allowance
70 days leave (work 5 1/2 days week)
overseas insurance
7 return tickets home yearly
apartment rental
all meals


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## technologyc

badsector said:


> Just to share my expat package for manufacturing industry.
> 
> Company relocated me to northern china Shaanxi.
> HOD Engineering.
> 
> Current Basic Salary
> USD2000 overseas allowance
> 70 days leave (work 5 1/2 days week)
> overseas insurance
> 7 return tickets home yearly
> apartment rental
> all meals


Thank you Badsector!
Are you native from Singapor ? If so, let's say I can't compare your package to my situation as I am from Europe (so 7 return tickets - especialyl in bizness - would be a dream for me  )
What is exactly the overseas allowance ? A one time payment or monthly additional payment ?
Apartment rental for which amount maximum ? 
Meals allowance is a surprise for me ; you mean you never have to pay for food ?


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## Eric in china

technologyc said:


> Thank you Badsector!
> Are you native from Singapor ? If so, let's say I can't compare your package to my situation as I am from Europe (so 7 return tickets - especialyl in bizness - would be a dream for me  )
> What is exactly the overseas allowance ? A one time payment or monthly additional payment ?
> Apartment rental for which amount maximum ?
> Meals allowance is a surprise for me ; you mean you never have to pay for food ?


In China food is normally supplied by the company and almost all companies have their own restaurant.


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## badsector

technologyc said:


> Thank you Badsector!
> Are you native from Singapor ? If so, let's say I can't compare your package to my situation as I am from Europe (so 7 return tickets - especialyl in bizness - would be a dream for me  ) yes, from singapore. all biz class. i do have colleagues who fly back home every 4 weeks. but during their home trip,they have to report for work in singapore
> What is exactly the overseas allowance ? A one time payment or monthly additional payment ?it's a monthly alowance
> Apartment rental for which amount maximum ? no idea. fully paid by company. i guess it's about RMB2k. housekeeping provided as well
> Meals allowance is a surprise for me ; you mean you never have to pay for food ?we have a personal chef to prepare our meals. weekends meals could be fully claim.


since u going shanghai, costs are much higher.


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## technologyc

So I finally get the offer, I would like to share it with you to have advices upon concrete things :

- Monthly salary (13 months) : 34k CNY/month
- Yearly bonus (0% to 15%) : 65k CNY maximum
- Housing allowances : 20k CNY/month
- Expatriation at the beginning + relocation at the end : 38k CNY / each
- 1 Business Class return trip to home , or 2 Economy Class return trips (independent of costs...).
- 1 month paid for service apartment, looking for a rental

--> all of these are before taxes, and if I well understood the company the housing allowance is non-taxable if I provide some rental receipt. 

Please, give me your feedback about these things and that additional question : taxes are paid directly by the company on monthly basis, right ? There is no "tax form" we receive at home once a year in China ?

BR,


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## Eric in china

As you are working for the company and not self employed they should deduct the tax before paying you.


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## technologyc

Sure, they will (around 23% tax in total). However I am still asking because in France or UK for instance, each month you have some taxes on your gross salary, taken directly by the company for the government, and then at the end of the year you receive by mail another taxes on net salary.

--> is it the same in China ? Or, after the monthly taxes, there is nothing more to pay ?


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## Eric in china

technologyc said:


> Sure, they will (around 23% tax in total). However I am still asking because in France or UK for instance, each month you have some taxes on your gross salary, taken directly by the company for the government, and then at the end of the year you receive by mail another taxes on net salary.
> 
> --> is it the same in China ? Or, after the monthly taxes, there is nothing more to pay ?


I can only speak from personal experience and I have only paid monthly taxes and have worked here for years, never had any request for a second tax based on net salary.

Also I have never paid as much as 23% but my wife is chinese and she usually organises things with the accounts department, and she never gave details on this. It is how they work, best for me not to ask.

Have you discussed the possibility of paying tax to your own government instead of the Chinese government, I believe this can be done, contact your embassy and ask them.

Edit to add; They usually paid part of my salary into my wife's account and claimed her as one of the workers thus keeping my salary below a certain tax threashold.


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## technologyc

About housing, what do you think about 8 park avenue compound ? It looks very nice and well furnished, nice club, area and quite close to my office.

As a reminder, my budget is maximum RMB 20k/month, charges excluded (electricity, gaz, internet,..
).


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## cschrd2

In those places check the actual gym quality. This is where they squeeze out money. Also be aware that you include club membership in your contract (it's not as logical as it seems). Another good method to establish the quality of service is by the level of finishing (paint/tiles). The better, the better the service will be. Same for Internet & TV. Looking at the subway system these days you can live anywhere in a radius of 5-7km and be at your office in 30 min so focus on your personal needs ( space, food/beverage, entertainment etc).


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