# Moving to Portugal



## RoyD (May 6, 2008)

Hi 

My wife and I have been living in Spain for almost three years but are thinking of moving to Portugal. Just before we we arrived in Spain the law changed and EU citizens had to apply for residency if they planned to stay over three months. I know that is not the case in other EU countries. In the Czech Republic, for instance, they say any EU citizen can come in with no problem. They suggest you get a temporary card if you think you might be staying for a long time only because you need it if you plan on getting a mortgage. It also serves to establish your time of arrival if you later want to apply for permanent residency. 

What does Portugal require for EU citizens to live there? We won't know how long we will want to stay until we have lived there for at least a year.

Roy


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## travelling-man (Jun 17, 2011)

You'll probably find answers to most if not all of your questions by using the search function but in short: If you're an EU citizen/have a passport from another EU country you have a right to reside in Portugal but you need to get a residencia certificate after you've been here for 3 months and that is usually valid for 5 years. After that you apply to SEF for a renewal which (IIRC) is usually valid for 10 years. 

It should be noted that PT bureaucracy is a royal PITA here and it's not uncommon for individual civil servants to interpret the rules any way they choose and this means that some areas might issue that first permit without question whilst others may try to apply extra criteria such as asking you to provide proof of income or lump sum etc.


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## RoyD (May 6, 2008)

Thanks for your response.

We had that problem in Spain. Here it is the individual police officers who are given the power to decide what is required, and there is little consistency in their decisions. 

Is it a big problem if we stay over the 3months, not for years, but say for 5 or 6 months? Would there be a heavy fine or do they ask you to leave or both? In Spain nobody will bother you and some stay for years. Not advisable but it is done. 

When we arrived in Spain we were leaving South America and living in Spain as opposed to SA so it seemed like we could not lose. But we are not sure about the difference between Spain and Portugal. Have you spent much time in Spain?


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## travelling-man (Jun 17, 2011)

I'm not a fan of it but some people do overstay a few months (sometimes more) & usually don't have any problems however things get more complicated if you have a foreign registered car here. 

If you did get caught overstaying my guess is they'd probably be inclined to simply warn....... but why not simply get the residencia as you're entitled to it anyway?

It only takes about 20 minutes and only costs about €20 so (IMO) why not get it and stay legal?


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## Jormedawson (Apr 4, 2016)

travellingman - Things get complicated if you have a foreign registered car here? can you explain? iv lived here for years and around most of europe. No problem with my UK reg car. I see loads around here too. I think legally you are allowed to be in the country for 6 months consecutive and then you have to leave the country or start to register the car on PT plates. However, the law doesn't stipulate going back to the UK. just out of the country. Do you know any better?

RoyD back to original topic. Sorry for the stray. As others have advised and from my experience of living in Spain, both countries procedure are similar. Its the EU so i guess thats why. Simple enough. 1 day of fafing at the government offices should suffice. You will need a Certificate of Residency, easy to get. Then a tax number. As i have mentioned in other parts of this forum recently, the tax number is important as you wont be able to open account for water, electric,internet services without one. But its easy to get. 

Obviously some advice depends on if this is your main abode, if your working or not, etc etc...


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## RoyD (May 6, 2008)

Yes, it is my inclination too. An acquaintance of mine was advised by some bureaucrats to do that. They told him it was too much trouble and it was easier to wait five years and them apply. After five years he would get permanent residency with no trouble. They told him everyone does it. He could not believe it and did not do it. He returned home and applied through the embassy.

In Spain it took a few months. Now to get off the tax rolls here I have to show proof of being a resident in another country. So this residencia should prove my residence in Portugal for Spain. That would be great if it is that easy. Do I have to wait three months or can I apply while I am there deciding where to live?


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## Jormedawson (Apr 4, 2016)

I think your getting confused with Permanent residency and citizenship?  Permanent residency is given automatically to every EU member without question. Its just a way to state you are living here permanently. This is also referred to as the Certificate of Residency. Citizenship is where you relinquish your own passport and become Portuguese. I think its 6yrs here in PT.

Although i notice it states you are from the USA so im sure the system differs.


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## travelling-man (Jun 17, 2011)

Jormedawson said:


> travellingman - *Things get complicated if you have a foreign registered car here? can you explain? iv lived here for years and around most of europe. No problem with my UK reg car. I see loads around here too. I think legally you are allowed to be in the country for 3 months consecutive and then you have to leave the country or start to register the car on PT plates. However, the law doesn't stipulate going back to the UK. just out of the country. Do you know any better?
> *
> RoyD back to original topic. Sorry for the stray. As others have advised and from my experience of living in Spain, both countries procedure are similar. Its the EU so i guess thats why. Simple enough. 1 day of fafing at the government offices should suffice. You will need a Certificate of Residency, easy to get. Then a tax number. As i have mentioned in other parts of this forum recently, the tax number is important as you wont be able to open account for water, electric,internet services without one. But its easy to get.
> 
> Obviously some advice depends on if this is your main abode, if your working or not, etc etc...


Maximum time to keep a foreign registered car here is 6 months...... you either have to begin the matriculation process within that time or remove it back to the country of registration for a further 6 months. - It also has to taxed, tested & insured in/from the country of origin all the time it's here. 

A new immigrant can import/matriculate a foreign registered car free of tax if he has owned it for 12 months previously and also meet a few other criteria but only if he begins that matriculation process within 6 months of arriving. 

If he has to pay the tax then it is calculated on engine size & emissions not on value and those fees are quite high...... Especially for larger engines.


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## Jormedawson (Apr 4, 2016)

travelling-man said:


> Maximum time to keep a foreign registered car here is 6 months...... you either have to begin the matriculation process within that time or remove it back to the country of registration for a further 6 months. - It also has to taxed, tested & insured in/from the country of origin all the time it's here.
> 
> A new immigrant can import/matriculate a foreign registered car free of tax if he has owned it for 12 months previously and also meet a few other criteria but only if he begins that matriculation process within 6 months of arriving.
> 
> If he has to pay the tax then it is calculated on engine size & emissions not on value and those fees are quite high...... Especially for larger engines.


Yep thats what i thought. Pretty easy if you drive back to the UK often.


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## travelling-man (Jun 17, 2011)

Not always because once out it's meant to stay out for 6 months.......... but a good idea if you spend a few months at a time in each country.


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## RoyD (May 6, 2008)

This is getting confusing. So let me explain my situation.
I am not applying for citizenship. 
I have no car and do not want one.
I am retired and therefore not looking to work in Portugal.

If i apply for a Certificate if Residency is this Permanent Residency? If so don't I have to have an address first? I will be coming this year to see where we want to live in Portugal so I will not have a address then. Will the government issue a certificate to me if I just tell them I plan to live there but do not yet have an address?


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## Jormedawson (Apr 4, 2016)

*Like i said before, you need to tell us where you are from*. Your nationality might change our advice. If you are NOT european then the procedure is probably different. 

If you ARE European then you will need to rent a property or buy. Once you are settled & have proof of address then you will have to go to the government offices and do your Certificate of Residency. THIS IS GIVEN WITHOUT QUESTIONS IF YOU ARE EUROPEAN! IF YOU ARE NOT EUROPEAN THEN I CANT OFFER ADVICE. IT DOESNT TAKE 5 YEARS LIKE YOU STATED BEFORE. Sorry about the caps but i wanted to make this point clear. 

Government, from my experience, will NOT issue a Cert of Residency without a Portuguese address or proof. It is printed on the Certificate & every time you move you have to update it. 

Then you go to the Financas to apply for a tax/fiscal number. As said before, these 2 things are a must. Order might be different & you might get a run around but they are the main 2. 

See the current post that is open on this forums Portuguese page about renting property. Should explain a bit about that.

Link here to renting property: http://www.expatforum.com/expats/po...66922-property-rental-procedure-portugal.html


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## travelling-man (Jun 17, 2011)

Just a slight correction. 

you can and should get a fiscal number before you get your residencia. 

As has been said, you do need an address to get a residencia but there's no need to worry about that immediately because you can only apply for the residencia after you've been here for 3 months and must apply for it before you've been here for 6 months. 

You need an address for both the fiscal number and the residencia but again no need to worry because you can use a rental address for initial application and then have it amended after you have bought your new home. 

Roy; Your profile says you're from the USA & living in Spain and this might be a good time to say that if you have a US passport or a passport from a non EU country, different rules will probably apply. (mostly depending on what passport your partner has - If you have a partner)


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## Jormedawson (Apr 4, 2016)

travelling-man said:


> Just a slight correction.
> 
> you can and should get a fiscal number before you get your residencia.


Really? i have always been asked for the Cert of Residency when changing things at the Financas so i would have thought the other way around. For the Cert of Res i have only been asked for passport & proof of current PT address. 

It should be added that IF you are renting then these 2 things should be done asap, especially the Fiscal Number as your rental agreement will be associated with it. However when renting, the landlord will give you proof of address so you can go ahead with the procedure of Fiscal Number.

W*e still dont know where the OP is from or if he is renting or buying so all this advice might be thrown out of the window! *


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## travelling-man (Jun 17, 2011)

Yup...... usually fiscal number first and you can get it as soon as you arrive. - you're not supposed to get residencia until you've been here for at least 3 months and must get it before the end of 6 months.


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## RoyD (May 6, 2008)

Jormedawson

Sorry, I didn't say before I have dual American and Italian citizenship. So, yes I am European. 
It sounds like it is going to be difficult to rent in Portugal.
Do you know anything about how they tax pensions there? Or do you know a good accountant I could use?


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## RoyD (May 6, 2008)

I just sent a reply to jormedawson letting him know I have dual citizenship, American and Italian. My wife and son are both Swedish. I will not be buying. Can I use an airbnb address for Certificate and then change it once I find a permanent rental? It sounds like the rental market is tight.


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## travelling-man (Jun 17, 2011)

Roy

It's no harder to rent here than anywhere else but if you can tell us what area and what sort of place are you looking for someone might be able to advise you further on that. 

Lots of tax advisors here but no need to panic on that either as you're probably paying tax on your pension elsewhere right now so you could leave the situation as it is until you get here and make a few decisions


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## Jormedawson (Apr 4, 2016)

Hi Roy. No problem. Ok so now we know you are European then all our advice stands. Please see the thread i sent you a link of in my above reply. If you read all of the advice in that thread then it should help you. Renting here is easy. dead easy in fact & very much like Spain... Airbnb will not suffice as a rental agreement as its not your place of abode as such. You will alos have no agreement. Only a rented property agreement will do. But its easy. dont worry. The market is only tight if you are looking to rent in capital cities. If you need any help then let me know,i grew up here and speak the language so if you are local i dont mind helping to negociate etc... . As "travellingman" mentioned above, an area where you are thinking of moving might help people offer advice on property availability etc.... In my post on the other thread i mentioned a few websites. check them out for prices etc...

Im afraid i cant offer advice on tax or pensions as im not using either.


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## RoyD (May 6, 2008)

We are city people but it doesn't have to be Lisbon. Alicante is about 400,000 and that is good. Renting here is tough. We have been looking for months to change our apartment but with no luck. I don't know anything about the cities and towns of Portugal yet. We are looking for a 2 or 3 bedroom apartment with 1.5 to 2 baths.


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## travelling-man (Jun 17, 2011)

Quite a lot of rentals available here but the cities are very different from each other and permanent rentals are probably harder to find than short or longer term ones. 

Perhaps you should consider a month or two in each before making a decision on where to settle?


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## Jormedawson (Apr 4, 2016)

RoyD said:


> We are city people but it doesn't have to be Lisbon. Alicante is about 400,000 and that is good. Renting here is tough. We have been looking for months to change our apartment but with no luck. I don't know anything about the cities and towns of Portugal yet. We are looking for a 2 or 3 bedroom apartment with 1.5 to 2 baths.


Personally i would plan a trip and visit some cities. thats the only way you will find somewhere you really feel at home. Those websites will help you find somewhere or at least give you an idea of what is about in each city. Inland and away from the tourist track will be easier to find somewhere. Lisbon & surrounding areas is a nightmare. I was lucky & found a nice place but i visited some right holes & it took a good month of looking whilst over here & months of research before. Really depends on whats available at the time. Mine was advertised on the Saturday on the OLX website, by Saturday afternoon i had signed and paid deposit. 3 weeks later the owner showed me that he had received over 150 emails asking if it was still vacant. If you are quick you will be ok, but market is competitive. right place,right time. This is only probably relevant for Lisbon areas. I have no personal experience of other cities. But friends have said it is still competitive, especially if it is a nice apartment. Portugal is still behind the time in aspects of apartment finishings so anything new,refurbished or "ikea" style is snapped up.

Dont forget that housing will also depend on if it is a University city & time of year your likely to move.


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## Maggy Crawford (Sep 18, 2010)

Coimbra is a lovely old university city with, possibly, the best hospital in Portugal. At least that has been my experience. It is also quite central for visiting other interesting places in the country.


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## Naaling (Apr 9, 2015)

travelling-man said:


> Yup...... usually fiscal number first and you can get it as soon as you arrive. - you're not supposed to get residencia until you've been here for at least 3 months and must get it before the end of 6 months.


I'm sorry T/M but that is not correct. The maximum stay without registering residency is 3 months. There is no minimum stay. You can do it the day after you arrive if you have an address and NIF. I arrived in November last year and got my residencia in January. If you have been in the country for 3 months then I believe you have 30 days to register. This is important because you can't open a bank account without residency and it could be very inconvenient (and expensive) to have to wait 3 months.


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## travelling-man (Jun 17, 2011)

Naaling said:


> I'm sorry T/M but that is not correct. The maximum stay without registering residency is 3 months. There is no minimum stay. You can do it the day after you arrive if you have an address and NIF. I arrived in November last year and got my residencia in January. If you have been in the country for 3 months then I believe you have 30 days to register. This is important because you can't open a bank account without residency and it could be very inconvenient (and expensive) to have to wait 3 months.


If it's wrong there's an awful lot of people not doing it the right way. 

I've helped a number of people get settled here in the last 5 years and every civil servant has issued the fiscal number within days of arrival and without question and every bank manager has allowed the account to be opened with the fiscal number and without the residencia and the residencias have only been issued after the person(s) have been in the country for more than 3 months. 

That said, PT is well known for rules to change from area to area.


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## Naaling (Apr 9, 2015)

travelling-man said:


> If it's wrong there's an awful lot of people not doing it the right way.
> 
> I've helped a number of people get settled here in the last 5 years and every civil servant has issued the fiscal number within days of arrival and without question and every bank manager has allowed the account to be opened with the fiscal number and without the residencia and the residencias have only been issued after the person(s) have been in the country for more than 3 months.
> 
> That said, PT is well known for rules to change from area to area.


T/M I meant no disrespect, but I felt the need do describe my personal experiences in Setubal over the past few months. Quite clearly they differ from what you describe in just about every respect.

1. I couldn't initially get a NIF without a PT address, because I didn't have an EU address. (I was told this in 2 different offices of Financas - one in Lisbon and the other in Setubal). I had to get my estate agent to act as my fiscal representative for a while.

2. I got residency in my second month - quite literally "no questions asked". Just a casual 20 minute chat with very nice people, while they sorted it out.

3.The Millennium Bank in Setubal refused to allow me to open an account until I had residency. (I had a NIF and PT address)

As you say things can vary from place to place, so there is no point looking for one global answer. People need to find out what the rules are for their area.


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## Jormedawson (Apr 4, 2016)

travelling-man said:


> every bank manager has allowed the account to be opened with the fiscal number.


Your right! i was talking complete nonsense before! i forgot i opened a Montepio account around 2months go! only showed my proof of NIF/Fiscal Number via the Portal das Finacas website and proof of address/rental agreement. 

We can all agree that the NIF is the most important one. And that rules change everywhere in PT! depends wh you get & what mood he/she is in. 

For example, i had a fine a few years ago because i didn't close my green receipts properly via the Financas in the Algarve. I only found out about this when i moved back to Portugal to the Lisbon areas around 4yrs later. I went to pay the fine,lady said "sorry its in Silves, you have to go there personally!" so i rang the Financas there in Silves & they where amazed. Went back to Lisbon Financas & asked to speak to the manager. All sorted instantly! The problem seems to be miss informed staff & staff who arent trained or able to cope with the new systems. ALot is paper based & not integrated yet too.


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## Jormedawson (Apr 4, 2016)

Naaling said:


> T/M I meant no disrespect, but I felt the need do describe my personal experiences in Setubal over the past few months. Quite clearly they differ from what you describe in just about every respect.
> 
> 1. I couldn't initially get a NIF without a PT address, because I didn't have an EU address. (I was told this in 2 different offices of Financas - one in Lisbon and the other in Setubal). I had to get my estate agent to act as my fiscal representative for a while.
> 
> ...


1 = Correct
2 = Correct
3 = Maybe because your from Australia? thats what your profile states? it shouldnt make much of a difference but could be a reason.


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## travelling-man (Jun 17, 2011)

Naaling: There was no offence taken at all. 

From my experience the fiscal office issues the number on a rental address and don't ask for a contract etc and then the new immigrant simply has the document reissued with his/her permanent address after he/she has bought their new home. 

As much as things vary here from area to area, the very worst for it are the PSP when it comes to firearms licencing........ they really are a bunch of horrible, arrogant, useless busstards that wouldn't know which way is up if they had a helium filled balloon in their hand!


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## HKG3 (Jan 11, 2015)

RoyD said:


> This is getting confusing. So let me explain my situation.
> I am not applying for citizenship.
> I have no car and do not want one.
> I am retired and therefore not looking to work in Portugal.
> ...


My understanding is that when you (Italian) moves to Portugal, you will need to apply for a resident card. This resident card is valid for five years. Once you stayed in Portugal for 5 continuous years, then you can apply for permanent residence in Portugal.


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## Russandmel (Jun 4, 2016)

Hi - very new to the forum and need advice on one way van rental from north west England to Algarve area. Any advice much appreciated


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