# Help needed for American friend



## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

An American friend here on a ninety day tourist visa would like to extend his stay. How does he go about doing this?


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

mrypg9 said:


> An American friend here on a ninety day tourist visa would like to extend his stay. How does he go about doing this?


he can't - it isn't possible to change visa status in his circumstances without returning to the US, or to which ever country he has his usual residence


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

xabiachica said:


> he can't - it isn't possible to change visa status in his circumstances without returning to the US, or to which ever country he has his usual residence


Thanks...I told him you would know!
What happens if he just overstays?


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## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

mrypg9 said:


> Thanks...I told him you would know!
> What happens if he just overstays?


Don't know specifically what happens in Spain if a person overstays, but when/if they are found out, they can be banned from the EU for up to 10 years. If they only get caught on their way out of the country, heading back home, it's not uncommon for them to waive the penalty. But under any other circumstances, the 10 year ban is far more likely.
Cheers,
Bev


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Bevdeforges said:


> Don't know specifically what happens in Spain if a person overstays, but when/if they are found out, they can be banned from the EU for up to 10 years. If they only get caught on their way out of the country, heading back home, it's not uncommon for them to waive the penalty. But under any other circumstances, the 10 year ban is far more likely.
> Cheers,
> Bev


Thanks, Bev. I don't know why he didn't address this issue before he left Michigan, he is a sensible guy.
He has a ninety day visa, wants to stay six months. He is retired, no money worries, respectable citizen, retired teacher.


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## thrax (Nov 13, 2008)

I have no idea how long it takes to get a visa but surely his best option is to return to US and apply for a new and longer visa? There are several Americans on the forum who might know the answer??


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## Brangus (May 1, 2010)

mrypg9 said:


> I don't know why he didn't address this issue before he left Michigan, he is a sensible guy.
> He has a ninety day visa, wants to stay six months.


He doesn't have a visa. American tourists can enter Spain without one, as long as they leave after 90 days. ("US citizens with ordinary passports who wish to travel to Spain and stay for tourist, study or business purposes for up to 90 days DO NOT NEED A VISA." Consular Services )

If he wants to stay longer, he has to return to the Mitten -- er, Michigan -- and apply for a visa at the Chicago consulate.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Brangus said:


> He doesn't have a visa. American tourists can enter Spain without one, as long as they leave after 90 days. ("US citizens with ordinary passports who wish to travel to Spain and stay for tourist, study or business purposes for up to 90 days DO NOT NEED A VISA." Consular Services )
> 
> If he wants to stay longer, he has to return to the Mitten -- er, Michigan -- and apply for a visa at the Chicago consulate.


I see.....any idea what would happen if he overstays by a month?


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

mrypg9 said:


> I see.....any idea what would happen if he overstays by a month?


anything from nothing to a 10 year ban, as Bev says

if he doesn't come to the attention of any authorities before he leaves, & there's not a jobsworth checking up on his way out, then probably nothing

if he does get caught though, or comes across a jobsworth, there's a real possibility of a ban


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## Brangus (May 1, 2010)

Last night I needed help winding down and so looked up the pertinent law, which can be slogged through here:
https://www.boe.es/buscar/act.php?id=BOE-A-2000-544 (Ley Orgánica 4/2000, de 11 de enero, sobre derechos y libertades de los extranjeros en España y su integración social.)

Pay special attention to articles 53, 55 and 57, which detail the various situations, the fines (up to 10,000 euros), and expulsion from Spain.

From a quick eyeball of the law, I take it that staying here would be classed as a "grave infraction." From one Midwesterner to another: Yankee, go home!


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Brangus said:


> Last night I needed help winding down and so looked up the pertinent law, which can be slogged through here:
> https://www.boe.es/buscar/act.php?id=BOE-A-2000-544 (Ley Orgánica 4/2000, de 11 de enero, sobre derechos y libertades de los extranjeros en España y su integración social.)
> 
> Pay special attention to articles 53, 55 and 57, which detail the various situations, the fines (up to 10,000 euros), and expulsion from Spain.
> ...


Thanks for your input, I'll pass it on.
I can't believe he is so dim, he's an experienced traveller. I guess his US driving licence is invalid here?


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

mrypg9 said:


> Thanks for your input, I'll pass it on.
> I can't believe he is so dim, he's an experienced traveller. I guess his US driving licence is invalid here?


he can use his driving licence here as a tourist - as long as he has an International Driving permit to back it up


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

xabiachica said:


> he can use his driving licence here as a tourist - as long as he has an International Driving permit to back it up


I don't think he has one....


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

mrypg9 said:


> I don't think he has one....


ah.... he'd best not drive then

The Australian son of a woman I know was pulled over on the motorway in his hire car. Once the police had established that he didn't have an International permit to go with his Aussie licence, the car was confiscated..........right there on the motorway - & of course he was fined for not having a valid licence


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

xabiachica said:


> ah.... he'd best not drive then
> 
> The Australian son of a woman I know was pulled over on the motorway in his hire car. Once the police had established that he didn't have an International permit to go with his Aussie licence, the car was confiscated..........right there on the motorway - & of course he was fined for not having a valid licence


Strange. I would have thought that the hire car company shouldn't have hired the car to him in the first place as they should have checked that he had the correct documents to be able to drive here


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Strange. I would have thought that the hire car company shouldn't have hired the car to him in the first place as they should have checked that he had the correct documents to be able to drive here


totally agree & that was what his mum was saying at the time

then it turned out that it was hired in her name & she had lent it to him - it was all a huge mess


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

xabiachica said:


> totally agree & that was what his mum was saying at the time
> 
> then it turned out that it was hired in her name & she had lent it to him - it was all a huge mess


Yep, certainly sounds it !


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## Brangus (May 1, 2010)

This is from the U.S. Embassy in Madrid:

"Should an American citizen wish to remain longer than ninety days, you will be required to obtain an extension of stay from Spanish immigration authorities. This extension, of no more than ninety days, must be requested at a police station at least three weeks before the initial entry period expires. It is only granted under exceptional circumstances. By law, foreigners who have overstayed their permitted time will not be allowed to leave Spain without first obtaining an exit permit from the Directorate of Security of the State in Madrid or from the local police in another city. A fine, commensurate with the time overstayed, may be charged."

There is also some info about driving in Spain on that page.

Traveling to Spain | Spain - Embassy of the United States


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## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

xabiachica said:


> totally agree & that was what his mum was saying at the time
> 
> then it turned out that it was hired in her name & she had lent it to him - it was all a huge mess


I don't think it was the lack of an international driving permit in this case, then. There is supposed to be a huge international treaty (through the UN) whereby member countries are supposed to honor foreign driving licenses for "visitors" without the need for an international license.

This all got tested when Florida (the US state) passed some sort of law requiring an international license for all foreigners. The law was ruled to be in violation of the international treaty and so was invalidated. What an international license does for you is to translate the language and terms of your driver's license into internationally recognized terms and levels. But as far as I know, they cannot require you to have an international permit if you have a valid license from your home country.
Cheers,
Bev


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Bevdeforges said:


> I don't think it was the lack of an international driving permit in this case, then. There is supposed to be a huge international treaty (through the UN) whereby member countries are supposed to honor foreign driving licenses for "visitors" without the need for an international license.
> 
> This all got tested when Florida (the US state) passed some sort of law requiring an international license for all foreigners. The law was ruled to be in violation of the international treaty and so was invalidated. What an international license does for you is to translate the language and terms of your driver's license into internationally recognized terms and levels. But as far as I know, they cannot require you to have an international permit if you have a valid license from your home country.
> Cheers,
> Bev


The fine was for not driving with a valid licence, because his Aussie licence wasn't backed up by an International Permit - & that's why the police confiscated the care - because he was driving illegally. You & I know that it's essentially a translation - but it's required here, & he didn't have it. 

It's even stated clearly on the Spanish Consulate website that Brangus linked to 

When his mum hired the car she had listed him as a driver - the hire company had only asked for a photocopy of his licence apparently.


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