# Visa for income outside Italy



## docjr

Hello,
I am a US citizen and would like to move to Italy. I am 42, married and have 3 young children. I have a business in the US which may allow me to live somewhere else and still draw an income. My children will need to enroll in school and I prefer the public school as I would like them to learn the language well. Does anyone know if this description fits any of the Visas?
Thank you,
John


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## Bevdeforges

Most countries in Europe don't have quite the elaborate categories of visas that the US has. You need to contact the Italian consulate in the country where you are currently resident (evidently Australia) and find out from them what the requirements are for a long-stay visa given your current circumstances.

It's normally difficult for someone of "working age" to get a non-work visa, simply based on the idea that you have to support yourself somehow and the local tax authority is going to want you to pay your fair share of taxes. However, in your situation, it all may depend on what sort of income you are drawing from your business in the US (i.e. are you working remotely? living off the dividends? drawing a sort of pension? or some other arrangement?) and its status for tax purposes in Italy. 
Cheers,
Bev


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## docjr

Thank you Bev.


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## suhailk383

is there any chance of flussi in this year or in coming years?


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## NickZ

This year is over. It's unlikely the economy will improve next year .


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## suhailk383

NickZ said:


> This year is over. It's unlikely the economy will improve next year .


I have applied for flussi in 2011 in bergamo.But i have not got any reply from the employer.How can i check the status of my application? I heard that they have stopped processing of application because of some reason. Is it right? my application was accepted on january 31st at 8.11am.Is there any chance to get my application approved in current situation?


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## NickZ

No idea.

Isn't there an online portal to check?

To the best of my knowledge there was no opening of the flussi this year except for a few farm labour jobs.


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## MovingOUTofFrance

deleted deleted deleted


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## suhailk383

NickZ said:


> No idea.
> 
> Isn't there an online portal to check?
> 
> To the best of my knowledge there was no opening of the flussi this year except for a few farm labour jobs.


thank u nick


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## Larry and Arlene

Hi-

We are retired and in process of relocating to Italy from the US for essentially permanent residence. I think you might want to check into the Italian "Elective Residence Visa." You will find information under the websites in most Italian Consulates in the US under the "Visa" section of the website. In essence, it is designed for people coming in Italy who will not be employed in Italy and have sufficient income means from sources outside of Italy. This type of visa is normally issued for periods up to one year and is subject to renewal. Once one arrives in Italy with the Visa in hand, one is required to present oneself to the local authorities to establish you are actually residing there, then a Residency certification is supposedly issued. Presently, it is understood you have to accomplish the second step within eight days.
There are other wrinkles but this is the essence of it as we have determined from the Italian Consulate in Los Angeles. We have yet to get a clear idea on the Italian tax implications of funds coming into Italy from outside Italy. Supposedly, there is an agreement between the US and Italy that if the income has already been taxed, the Italians would not tax it again - good luck from what we understand of the convoluted nature of the Italian bureaucracy. Hope this helps.


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## NickZ

Larry and Arlene said:


> We have yet to get a clear idea on the Italian tax implications of funds coming into Italy from outside Italy. Supposedly, there is an agreement between the US and Italy that if the income has already been taxed, the Italians would not tax it again - good luck from what we understand of the convoluted nature of the Italian bureaucracy. Hope this helps.



The US/Italy tax treaty is virtually a bone stock OECD treaty. Nothing fancy or novel.

If you're tax resident in Italy you're taxed on worldwide income. Some types of income may be taxed outside but that doesn't mean it's not taxed in Italy. It just means the non Italian tax is offset the Italian tax. 

There is this info for social security

Social Security Agreement | United States Diplomatic Mission to Italy

http://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/tax-policy/treaties/Documents/teitaly.pdf

That's the explanation of the actual tax treaty


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## Larry and Arlene

Thank you very much Nick- The provided resources are excellent. It looks like for at least a while, having tax accountants in Italy and the US is going to be important.


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## gipi

Hi, you could qualify for an elective residence visa.


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## MovingOUTofFrance

If you spend less than 183 days each year in Italy then there is no need to file worldwide taxes. Also I am not a 100 % sure but I think that by choosing the elective residence visa you can still remain tax resident in your country of origin but check on this. The most important thing is to avoid "estate taxes" - good news is that estate / inheritance taxes in Italy are nothing compared to the US (I think it's 40% in the US and in italy the highest rate is only 5% and in France the highest rate is 60%). Inheritance tax only applies to "immovable property" held in Italy as well as all moveable property held worldwide - it does not apply to immovable property held outside italy. Also if you are not doing business or job in italy then you don't have to pay social contributions. ...Italian tax laws aren't all that bad for foreigners seeking residency in italy. The other catch is - Italian elective residence is not all that easy to obtain - you need to show either 1 million euros liquid assets OR an income between 100-150k euros annually ...so almost US$ 200,000....you also need to rent or buy a property, get private health insurance and a clean criminal record.


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## NickZ

MovingOUTofFrance said:


> If you spend less than 183 days each year in Italy then there is no need to file worldwide taxes..


That's not true.

The TUIR sets out three tests. 

Registered with the town

Centre of interests

Domicile

If any of these three tests are passed for the majority of the year you are tax resident.

Some one on a visa must register with the town so bingo right there.


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## MovingOUTofFrance

How do you determine center of interests? If you live in Italy full time but all your earnings are out of italy and you have most of your assets out of italy then you are not taxed in italy at all? Like I said - I am not sure but I asked an Immigration Lawyer in Italy and he clearly said you can remain tax resident in your country where you make your income even if you come to live in italy.


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## NickZ

Centre of interests.

Family,home,things like drivers license,car,bank accounts etc.

Per il Fisco la residenza è una questione di legami FiscoOggi.it



> È sufficiente quindi mantenere in Italia il centro dei propri interessi, sia personali che di altro genere, per essere considerati fiscalmente residenti. In particolare, tra i fatti “sintomatici” dello status di residente fiscale ci sono la disponibilità di un’abitazione permanente, la presenza della famiglia, l’accreditamento dei propri guadagni indipendentemente dal luogo in cui sono stati conseguiti, il possesso di beni anche mobiliari, la partecipazione a riunioni di lavoro e persino l’iscrizione a circoli e club. Questi e altri elementi devono essere presi in considerazione nel momento in cui si pone il problema di definire la residenza fiscale.



But it's fairly common concept in tax.


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## NickZ

http://www.fiscooggi.it/analisi-e-c...sidenza-fiscaleprobabilmente-dove-porta-cuore

That's newer. 

Home is where the heart is.


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## MovingOUTofFrance

Yes but what I meant is - if you have "income outside Italy" and are spending less than 183 days a year in Italy (as long as you have no professional or investment activity within italy) then you are exempt from declaring and filing taxes on worldwide assets / income - is that right or no?? Again - you need to have income IN ITALY and spending more than 183 days a year to be tax resident in Italy.



NickZ said:


> Dov?è la vera residenza fiscale? Probabilmente dove porta il cuore FiscoOggi.it
> 
> That's newer.
> 
> Home is where the heart is.


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