# One for Deadguy



## hurghadapat

Is there any truth in the rumour that seems to spreading all over Egypt at the moment that all non professional people are being given 500LE by the government

I have heard it has always been in place and was known as Sadat's pension and was then 50LE....then Nasser's pension 100Le and then of course Mubarak's which was 150LE.....so is all this true or just another rumour being fed to the people trying to keep them happy.


----------



## MaidenScotland

I hope that is from their personal accounts...


----------



## hurghadapat

MaidenScotland said:


> I hope that is from their personal accounts...


Would like to think so but have a horrible feeling that it might be just a rumour....that's why i put this one for Deadguy


----------



## GM1

Nasser was president before Sadat......


----------



## Johanna

GM1 said:


> Nasser was president before Sadat......


Thought so too!


----------



## DeadGuy

hurghadapat said:


> Is there any truth in the rumour that seems to spreading all over Egypt at the moment that all non professional people are being given 500LE by the government
> 
> I have heard it has always been in place and was known as Sadat's pension and was then 50LE....then Nasser's pension 100Le and then of course Mubarak's which was 150LE.....so is all this true or just another rumour being fed to the people trying to keep them happy.



There is something called the Sadat’s pension for non professional people yes, it’s for people without any kind of education, and it was 50 L.E. but it’s still around 50 L.E., the thing is, it’s for the whole FAMILY, not for each person :s But as far as I’m aware, there is no “raise” planned on that.

The 150 L.E. thing is for people older than 60 years old (That’s the age of mandatory retirement for any “official” job in here) who had some education (Mainly, those who can just "read") and been working for the government, this one is paid per person though, not per family; as for the 500 L.E. one, it’s not exactly 500 L.E., but the 150 L.E. pension goes side by side with what kinda job a person had for the government right before they retired (Again, age 60), so it basically depends on 2 main things, person’s education, and person’s connections concerning what kinda job he/she last had with the government, so depending on the last job someone had, the 150 L.E. pension goes as high as 1,000 L.E. in some cases, but again, depending on the last job someone had.


Now as far as I’ve heard, the rumors were not concerning the unprofessional people, it was concerning unemployed ones, the rumors said that if a citizen had any kind of education that qualifies him/her for a specific kinda job but still can’t find one? They’ll be paid an amount of money, the numbers are still vague though, and it if you want my opinion? The rumors are just coming from people having wishful thinking! It’s not gonna happen soon, cause the P.M. made it clear yesterday in his press conference that they need to see if they can offer jobs first, then they’ll see about “giving” money for anyone! He also made it clear that if you’re qualified to be a doctor for example, the job the “government” would offer does NOT need to match your major, but still, if you did not accept it, you won’t be qualified for any kind of unemployment payments cause duh! You “refused” to be a bloody janitor!

I'm sure there are better words/expressions for what I've just said, but I did not study business management or so, so pardon me if any expressions I've used sounded "unprofessional"


----------



## hurghadapat

DeadGuy said:


> There is something called the Sadat’s pension for non professional people yes, it’s for people without any kind of education, and it was 50 L.E. but it’s still around 50 L.E., the thing is, it’s for the whole FAMILY, not for each person :s But as far as I’m aware, there is no “raise” planned on that.
> 
> The 150 L.E. thing is for people older than 60 years old (That’s the age of mandatory retirement for any “official” job in here) who had some education (Mainly, those who can just "read") and been working for the government, this one is paid per person though, not per family; as for the 500 L.E. one, it’s not exactly 500 L.E., but the 150 L.E. pension goes side by side with what kinda job a person had for the government right before they retired (Again, age 60), so it basically depends on 2 main things, person’s education, and person’s connections concerning what kinda job he/she last had with the government, so depending on the last job someone had, the 150 L.E. pension goes as high as 1,000 L.E. in some cases, but again, depending on the last job someone had.
> 
> 
> Now as far as I’ve heard, the rumors were not concerning the unprofessional people, it was concerning unemployed ones, the rumors said that if a citizen had any kind of education that qualifies him/her for a specific kinda job but still can’t find one? They’ll be paid an amount of money, the numbers are still vague though, and it if you want my opinion? The rumors are just coming from people having wishful thinking! It’s not gonna happen soon, cause the P.M. made it clear yesterday in his press conference that they need to see if they can offer jobs first, then they’ll see about “giving” money for anyone! He also made it clear that if you’re qualified to be a doctor for example, the job the “government” would offer does NOT need to match your major, but still, if you did not accept it, you won’t be qualified for any kind of unemployment payments cause duh! You “refused” to be a bloody janitor!
> 
> I'm sure there are better words/expressions for what I've just said, but I did not study business management or so, so pardon me if any expressions I've used sounded "unprofessional"


Thanks for the info Deadguy........


----------



## DeadGuy

MaidenScotland said:


> I hope that is from their personal accounts...


They just LOVED to put their bloody names and pictures on EVERYTHING in here!! Nasser's schools, Sadat's hospitals, Mubarak's bloody pyramids! Even October 6th battle!! Tens of thousands of soldiers were there, but NO! It was all about him!!! 

Don't you just love democracy?!


----------



## MaidenScotland

DeadGuy said:


> They just LOVED to put their bloody names and pictures on EVERYTHING in here!! Nasser's schools, Sadat's hospitals, Mubarak's bloody pyramids! Even October 6th battle!! Tens of thousands of soldiers were there, but NO! It was all about him!!!
> 
> Don't you just love democracy?!




Hey it cant be that bad didnt want of your presidents start off his working life as a postman?


----------



## MensEtManus

Actually, I never understood one's extreme attachment to working in a position that matches their major. In the states, most of the folks I knew worked in fields or position that had very little to do with their major. 

It seems in Egypt folks are religious about sticking to their major. The other hilarious aspect of that is that students fresh out of university actually believe they know everything and their opinion cannot be incorrect. When I first started out, I always assumed that I knew nothing. Even if I thought I knew something, I would still claim to know nothing so I can hear someone else's viewpoint. To be more precise, Egyptian males suffer from the aforementioned, whereas Egyptian females tend to be a lot more modest and willing to learn on the job. The males refuse to learn anything...


----------



## MensEtManus

gosh.. that comment totally threw me off and I wanted to answer the question. 

The 500LE for the unemployed was said on TV but it has yet to materialize. The other thing regarding pension initially started out as
150% of pension with min 300LE until a max of 1200LE

now, they changed their words to:
100% of pension with min 200LE until a max of 1000LE

The yearly 50LE still exists, but it was recently updated to become 10LE/month. Some companies either have the 50LE once per year or others said that they "added" the 10LE/month in one of the many "salary increases"


----------



## MaidenScotland

Ahh that will just be a man thing, you must have been the exception to the rule lol
No man ever takes my word for anything they go and check. I have of course said that if you have a screw driver here you can call yourself an engineer so maybe that is the problem?


----------



## DeadGuy

MensEtManus said:


> Actually, I never understood one's extreme attachment to working in a position that matches their major. In the states, most of the folks I knew worked in fields or position that had very little to do with their major.
> 
> It seems in Egypt folks are religious about sticking to their major. The other hilarious aspect of that is that students fresh out of university actually believe they know everything and their opinion cannot be incorrect. When I first started out, I always assumed that I knew nothing. Even if I thought I knew something, I would still claim to know nothing so I can hear someone else's viewpoint. To be more precise, Egyptian males suffer from the aforementioned, whereas Egyptian females tend to be a lot more modest and willing to learn on the job. The males refuse to learn anything...


No offense, but people don’t spend years and pay tens of thousands of money to end up earning nothing from what they been working on, if someone’s major shouldn’t be considered, then the whole “Higher education” thing in here need to be excluded, let everyone be trained for a specific job and then let the best one get the job and no one will complain I promise!

But in here it’s like if you got no uni degree then you’re worth nothing in the market, but then you’re still not worth much with the bloody uni degree anyway!! It would have saved much hassle if people knew they were gonna end up being janitors or a bloody workers in some factory, just drop school and look for a job when you’re still 14/15 and by the time you’re 23/24 you’d have a career with +10 years experience!!

Some people do work hard for their bloody degrees, so if they can’t get something worth it out of it then they will complain! Sorry but it's just simple logic!


----------



## MensEtManus

It's an excellent point, we should make the requirements to enter university harder. It seems that so many graduates know virtually nothing yet they are under the illusion they know everything. They graduate from university and when they enter the workforce all they want is to sit behind a desk and give orders. I feel every 22year old expects to be a Managing Director.

You are also absolutely correct the difference in wages between skilled and unskilled is negligible. I too sometimes wonder why folks even go to university if an uneducated person can earn similar or even sometimes more than the educated folks. However, it becomes quite clear in the workplace when you see the uneducated worker trying harder than the educated person. Eventually, it will shift towards educated folks, but there is still a major gap in the Egyptian workforce for highly skilled individuals. I mean, Egypt has yet to go through the idea of consulting jobs, investment banking jobs, etc. The few banks around are nothing compared to the potential market. 

Many folks assume that workers are "cheap" in Egypt, yet many do not realize that actually imported workers from Philippines, Pakistan, India, China and now working in Egypt cost less! If I was allowed to have 100% non-local, I would. The unskilled labor in Egypt has changed over the years and become quite expensive compared to international markets and in essence making exporting quite difficult. The productivity is terrible.


My first job I was a postboy, I used to deliver parcels from one place to another. Then I worked as a telephonist and further promoted to secretary. As time progressed, I moved up the ladder. However, still I was bringing coffee, making coffee for my boss, going anywhere and doing anything the boss wanted. I used to take care of his laundry, etc. Many acts that most folks would be ashamed of today, but I do not regret anything. On the contrary, it taught me humility and respect for earning a honest living. Eventually, I amassed a bit and ventured onto a new project that brought me here. In saying all this, my career started off quite rocky (and I had graduated from both graduate and undergraduate schools.), but I was never under the illusion that I deserved anything. 

I just felt lucky that someone gave me the opportunity to try. Until this day, I still keep close contacts with everyone I worked for. Similarly, until today, I still do not think I deserved to enter my alma mater, but I am very grateful to the admissions folks.

anyone else feel like we should be grateful to our first job? or the university that accepted us?


----------



## SHendra

MensEtManus said:


> ...
> 
> anyone else feel like we should be grateful to our first job? or the university that accepted us?


I can honestly say yes to this. I didn't get as far as University but did go a different route when I left school. Back then in the UK there was a training scheme called YTS for school leavers or early college leavers. It entailed one day a week at a college and 4 days in a work placement. I did a BTEC in Care and worked with Children in a Nursery. The pay was rubbish(35quid!) But the job I really LOVED it as in it's still my 'best' to date. I had job satisfaction, and loved waking up to go into work! I was lucky with my boss in the sense she got me more interested as time went on and she gave me more responsibilities, I was actually out shining the ones who actually work there full time and been there for a long time sitting on their butts drinking tea. I soon became a supervisor even whilst in training still and a key holder to open up if I arrived first. I loved the fact I was trusted. The parents of the children never had complaints and I actually took outside work off many of them in babysitting to earn some more money and to add to my CV etc. I really did enjoy that job!

Sadly it had to come to the end the UK Gov phased out the scheme so I was unable to complete the BTEC course and landed up unemployed. After that I landed up in some Shoe factory and even though suddenly I was earning 4 times the amount more I hated the job with a passion.. I lost that get up and go. But I continued on until life led me another way as I had this belief in me that doing work we don't like is better than nothing and can be used until something better shown up. 

I eventually went back to College and did a lot of NVQs and IT and Presentation courses. At 35 now I have not ever had that feeling of 'job satisfaction' since.


----------



## stefnova

MensEtManus said:


> It's an excellent point, we should make the requirements to enter university harder. It seems that so many graduates know virtually nothing yet they are under the illusion they know everything. They graduate from university and when they enter the workforce all they want is to sit behind a desk and give orders. I feel every 22year old expects to be a Managing Director.
> 
> You are also absolutely correct the difference in wages between skilled and unskilled is negligible. I too sometimes wonder why folks even go to university if an uneducated person can earn similar or even sometimes more than the educated folks. However, it becomes quite clear in the workplace when you see the uneducated worker trying harder than the educated person. Eventually, it will shift towards educated folks, but there is still a major gap in the Egyptian workforce for highly skilled individuals. I mean, Egypt has yet to go through the idea of consulting jobs, investment banking jobs, etc. The few banks around are nothing compared to the potential market.
> 
> Many folks assume that workers are "cheap" in Egypt, yet many do not realize that actually imported workers from Philippines, Pakistan, India, China and now working in Egypt cost less! If I was allowed to have 100% non-local, I would. The unskilled labor in Egypt has changed over the years and become quite expensive compared to international markets and in essence making exporting quite difficult. The productivity is terrible.
> 
> 
> My first job I was a postboy, I used to deliver parcels from one place to another. Then I worked as a telephonist and further promoted to secretary. As time progressed, I moved up the ladder. However, still I was bringing coffee, making coffee for my boss, going anywhere and doing anything the boss wanted. I used to take care of his laundry, etc. Many acts that most folks would be ashamed of today, but I do not regret anything. On the contrary, it taught me humility and respect for earning a honest living. Eventually, I amassed a bit and ventured onto a new project that brought me here. In saying all this, my career started off quite rocky (and I had graduated from both graduate and undergraduate schools.), but I was never under the illusion that I deserved anything.
> 
> I just felt lucky that someone gave me the opportunity to try. Until this day, I still keep close contacts with everyone I worked for. Similarly, until today, I still do not think I deserved to enter my alma mater, but I am very grateful to the admissions folks.
> 
> anyone else feel like we should be grateful to our first job? or the university that accepted us?


you have to understand that the maintality in Egypt, not just Egypt but in most Arab countries is different to say how the western world would see it when it comes to education and work. There's no shame in an university student in the uk working on the weekends as a waiter earning a bit of extra cash to pay the rent, but in Egypt there is. importing non-locals because it's 'cheaper' and so it can benefit you and your business.. no wonder they went on strike, so where does that leave the jobs for the people who actually come from the country that your investing your business into?

as soon as I finished my degree the only thing I wanted to do was go travelling something so common in the west although it was something almost extremely hard for my mother to understand and get her head around, now that I have this degree it automatically means I can get a well paid job and become successful in my mothers eyes. I don't blame her, it's almost what they've been lead to believe, that if they've graduated from the US, or the UK it's like there on the road to stardom or something! 

when it comes to arabs, pride and pre-judgment is almost human nature to them, 

In England you can work your way up the ladder and and potentially get a good job from experience and no degree, sadly in Egypt that's hugely rare


----------



## expatagogo

DeadGuy said:


> No offense, but people don’t spend years and pay tens of thousands of money to end up earning nothing from what they been working on, if someone’s major shouldn’t be considered, then the whole “Higher education” thing in here need to be excluded, let everyone be trained for a specific job and then let the best one get the job and no one will complain I promise!
> 
> But in here it’s like if you got no uni degree then you’re worth nothing in the market, but then you’re still not worth much with the bloody uni degree anyway!! It would have saved much hassle if people knew they were gonna end up being janitors or a bloody workers in some factory, just drop school and look for a job when you’re still 14/15 and by the time you’re 23/24 you’d have a career with +10 years experience!!
> 
> Some people do work hard for their bloody degrees, so if they can’t get something worth it out of it then they will complain! Sorry but it's just simple logic!


No offense (and I really mean that), but you have to understand that there is a very big difference between university education in the west and Egypt. In the west, university students are taught critical thinking skills (how to think), however, for the most part, Egyptian university students (as well as KG-12) memorize facts and regurgitate those facts on exams (what to think). A western university education imbibes transferable skills, such as the ability to problem solve and think situations through to a logical conclusion because, for the most part, western employers want employees to make decisions for themselves. Not so in Egypt, where managers will give an employee an instruction, the employee will complete the task, then the manager will give the next instruction, and so on, because it's necessary as Egyptians aren't taught how to figure out what to do next and managers expect the respect that comes along with being the person to give instructions. 

How do I know this? Because I've managed Egyptians - highly educated Egyptians - and learned the hard way. 

One of the catalysts to this revolution is the idea that university educations should be followed by good jobs. Unless there are drastic changes in Egypt's education system, as a whole, that will not happen. Nasser promised that every Egyptian that graduated from college would have a job with the government. In order to honor that promise, college educations where whipped together, just as the promised jobs - Stamper of the Paper #1, Stamper of the Paper #2, Stamper of the Paper #3 - were created.

Seriously, when an Egyptian medical degree is no good in Nigeria and Yemen, there's a problem at the system level.


----------



## bat

expatagogo said:


> No offense (and I really mean that), but you have to understand that there is a very big difference between university education in the west and Egypt. In the west, university students are taught critical thinking skills (how to think), however, for the most part, Egyptian university students (as well as KG-12) memorize facts and regurgitate those facts on exams (what to think). A western university education imbibes transferable skills, such as the ability to problem solve and think situations through to a logical conclusion because, for the most part, western employers want employees to make decisions for themselves. Not so in Egypt, where managers will give an employee an instruction, the employee will complete the task, then the manager will give the next instruction, and so on, because it's necessary as Egyptians aren't taught how to figure out what to do next and managers expect the respect that comes along with being the person to give instructions.
> 
> How do I know this? Because I've managed Egyptians - highly educated Egyptians - and learned the hard way.
> 
> One of the catalysts to this revolution is the idea that university educations should be followed by good jobs. Unless there are drastic changes in Egypt's education system, as a whole, that will not happen. Nasser promised that every Egyptian that graduated from college would have a job with the government. In order to honor that promise, college educations where whipped together, just as the promised jobs - Stamper of the Paper #1, Stamper of the Paper #2, Stamper of the Paper #3 - were created.
> 
> Seriously, when an Egyptian medical degree is no good in Nigeria and Yemen, there's a problem at the system level.


not everyone can get into uni ,
but untill there is respect given to the bldy janitors cleaners etc,then this country wont be going anywhere.if someone does a decent job in there place of work then they should be respected.i give respect to all the people i work with ,cleaners, tea boys etc, as well as managers. there all the same to me,human beings.


----------



## SHendra

bat said:


> not everyone can get into uni ,
> but untill there is respect given to the bldy janitors cleaners etc,then this country wont be going anywhere.if someone does a decent job in there place of work then they should be respected.i give respect to all the people i work with ,cleaners, tea boys etc, as well as managers. there all the same to me,human beings.


I ain't saying all of them are like this but I do get the impression sometimes that if they were offered a well paid job say just cleaning or a very low paid job with some fancy title their go for the title! I met a few who thinks they are above anything and do not like having a boss full stop! Including the ones with limited education. They don't seam to grasp the something better than nothing until something better comes along or working their way up within some job. 

My other half sister have been hunting work for a long time now but snubs near on everything she can or have been offered. She's a talanted lady to with making clothes etc (I would not know my way around a sewing machine!) She's even made me some great clothing over the past few years. So I said to her many of times if she don't want to work for someone to try work for herself by printing of some cards and handing them out etc. She liked the idea but never did or did go do anything about it.


----------



## bat

SHendra said:


> I ain't saying all of them are like this but I do get the impression sometimes that if they were offered a well paid job say just cleaning or a very low paid job with some fancy title their go for the title! I met a few who thinks they are above anything and do not like having a boss full stop! Including the ones with limited education. They don't seam to grasp the something better than nothing until something better comes along or working their way up within some job.
> 
> My other half sister have been hunting work for a long time now but snubs near on everything she can or have been offered. She's a talanted lady to with making clothes etc (I would not know my way around a sewing machine!) She's even made me some great clothing over the past few years. So I said to her many of times if she don't want to work for someone to try work for herself by printing of some cards and handing them out etc. She liked the idea but never did or did go do anything about it.


i presume that she did not do this in uni,and what kind of job would she get.
and if shes not married then how can she tell prospective suitors she is a dressmaker etc.the list goes on and on.also printing cards with her details on a def no no no idea who will get hold of them and what they will think.i had cards printed from my work but never again,wrong sort of people got the wrong idea,so now i dont give any details out at all.


----------



## SHendra

bat said:


> i presume that she did not do this in uni,and what kind of job would she get.
> and if shes not married then how can she tell prospective suitors she is a dressmaker etc.the list goes on and on.also printing cards with her details on a def no no no idea who will get hold of them and what they will think.i had cards printed from my work but never again,wrong sort of people got the wrong idea,so now i dont give any details out at all.


She never did Uni. Her English is pretty good and she does have some skills in IT. Other than that she has no experience in anything other than what she can do herself from her own hands (tailoring, cakes etc normal cooking she can't!). She's 28 and have not long told her brother and mum she has no intention of ever marrying because she don't want to loose her 'freedom'. So they been trying to tell her that if that's her decision they respect it then she's going to have to find a way to help make a living since her mother is struggling on a small pension to live. As for her brother well he has a child to think of to he can't do it all and barely does, I do most of this. I even offered to help fund her to go back to college but she still refused. Her latest idea is to sell her 'gold' to buy a cheap car, I asked her how she going to afford to run it not to mention any repairs her reply was simply 'inshallah' it all be ok!


----------



## bat

SHendra said:


> She never did Uni. Her English is pretty good and she does have some skills in IT. Other than that she has no experience in anything other than what she can do herself from her own hands (tailoring, cakes etc normal cooking she can't!). She's 28 and have not long told her brother and mum she has no intention of ever marrying because she don't want to loose her 'freedom'. So they been trying to tell her that if that's her decision they respect it then she's going to have to find a way to help make a living since her mother is struggling on a small pension to live. As for her brother well he has a child to think of to he can't do it all and barely does, I do most of this. I even offered to help fund her to go back to college but she still refused. Her latest idea is to sell her 'gold' to buy a cheap car, I asked her how she going to afford to run it not to mention any repairs her reply was simply 'inshallah' it all be ok!


abroad, thats normal.
poor lass,come across girls like that,but in the end they give up and either stay at home to look after aged parents or become second wife to a widower, with children to be looked after.the countrys not ready for independant ,single woman.


----------



## DeadGuy

This is meant to cover both MensEtManus and expatagogo’s posts:

The “courses” given in 99% of the universities in here in Egypt have NOTHING to do with any kinda knowledge anyone would need after graduation! (Exclude medical colleges, cause medical students are actually WORKING as doctors most of the time before they graduate, and by the way, Yemeni students come to Egypt to be medical student, so I guess that means it’s accepted in their country). So I can not disagree with you about a fresh graduate knowing nothing about what they’re supposed to do! Believe it or not but this does not “offend” me or anyone else in here! Cause it is a known fact for most Egyptians! The ones who "believe" they're just good enough with the degree aren't the ones anyone would need to hire!

Now whose problem is it?! I did mention it before that the courses in here are simply STUPID! Out of date! And they just need a good memory to pass, nothing else! But again there are many sources for anyone to learn about anything, anyone studying anywhere got free libraries, and there’s something called internet! Yes it would be hard to find time for libraries specially if you’re looking for learning, cause what you’d learn simply would never help you passing cause exams are designed for the books published, if you put something else in your paper that doesn’t match the professors’ books then you’ll simply get a big fat F (Even if your answer was 110% correct!). So for me 95% of the blame goes for the bloody stupid educational “system” in here! But like I said, people can still find more ways to learn if they did want to!

Few colleges require summer training to get the degree, but again, most people just got connection and get a paper saying that they were trained here and there while all they really did was sitting on their butts smoking weed! But officially?! They got a paper saying they were trained, so that’s about it!

The other few who really want to learn something and go somewhere for the training, they either get the “You don’t know nothing, just sit there and watch, you’re not allowed to touch anything!” attitude from the place’s owner (And that’s what’s happening 80% of the time! Why do they accept trainees when all they got for them is “sit and watch, don’t touch nothing” is beyond me!), or they do get to work and they do learn and the ones who manage to show their potentials do get a call after they graduate telling them that they’re hired! But that happens like 0.000001% of the time! It gives hope anyway!

But still, you can’t tell people that if you study this you’d be a qualified that, but then when they graduate tell them that they can’t be hired! There is a huge problem in the educational “system” in here, but telling graduates to accept jobs that got nothing to do with their degrees is not the right answer!

As for starting careers and starting your life, yes the majority of the population in here find it “embarrassing” to be a waiter or so for some weird reason, but that doesn’t mean that you need to be a waiter first then be a teacher if your degree qualifies you to be a teacher! Cause no matter how hard you work as a waiter! They never need teachers in restaurants! So starting small is something, but starting wrong is a whole different story!!


----------



## bat

DeadGuy said:


> This is meant to cover both MensEtManus and expatagogo’s posts:
> 
> The “courses” given in 99% of the universities in here in Egypt have NOTHING to do with any kinda knowledge anyone would need after graduation! (Exclude medical colleges, cause medical students are actually WORKING as doctors most of the time before they graduate, and by the way, Yemeni students come to Egypt to be medical student, so I guess that means it’s accepted in their country). So I can not disagree with you about a fresh graduate knowing nothing about what they’re supposed to do! Believe it or not but this does not “offend” me or anyone else in here! Cause it is a known fact for most Egyptians! The ones who "believe" they're just good enough with the degree aren't the ones anyone would need to hire!
> 
> Now whose problem is it?! I did mention it before that the courses in here are simply STUPID! Out of date! And they just need a good memory to pass, nothing else! But again there are many sources for anyone to learn about anything, anyone studying anywhere got free libraries, and there’s something called internet! Yes it would be hard to find time for libraries specially if you’re looking for learning, cause what you’d learn simply would never help you passing cause exams are designed for the books published, if you put something else in your paper that doesn’t match the professors’ books then you’ll simply get a big fat F (Even if your answer was 110% correct!). So for me 95% of the blame goes for the bloody stupid educational “system” in here! But like I said, people can still find more ways to learn if they did want to!
> 
> Few colleges require summer training to get the degree, but again, most people just got connection and get a paper saying that they were trained here and there while all they really did was sitting on their butts smoking weed! But officially?! They got a paper saying they were trained, so that’s about it!
> 
> The other few who really want to learn something and go somewhere for the training, they either get the “You don’t know nothing, just sit there and watch, you’re not allowed to touch anything!” attitude from the place’s owner (And that’s what’s happening 80% of the time! Why do they accept trainees when all they got for them is “sit and watch, don’t touch nothing” is beyond me!), or they do get to work and they do learn and the ones who manage to show their potentials do get a call after they graduate telling them that they’re hired! But that happens like 0.000001% of the time! It gives hope anyway!
> 
> But still, you can’t tell people that if you study this you’d be a qualified that, but then when they graduate tell them that they can’t be hired! There is a huge problem in the educational “system” in here, but telling graduates to accept jobs that got nothing to do with their degrees is not the right answer!
> 
> As for starting careers and starting your life, yes the majority of the population in here find it “embarrassing” to be a waiter or so for some weird reason, but that doesn’t mean that you need to be a waiter first then be a teacher if your degree qualifies you to be a teacher! Cause no matter how hard you work as a waiter! They never need teachers in restaurants! So starting small is something, but starting wrong is a whole different story!!


yes about the uni education.
but theres nothing wrong doing any job untill you get what youn want life skills etc you learn in other jobs very important.
when a doctor teacher engineer etc get the job they like ,they are mixing with waiters cleaners etc.
and do all the doctors want to be doctors and all the engineers want to be engineers.
many do it for parents etc.
a rethink needed .


----------



## DeadGuy

bat said:


> yes about the uni education.
> but theres nothing wrong doing any job untill you get what youn want life skills etc you learn in other jobs very important.
> when a doctor teacher engineer etc get the job they like ,they are mixing with waiters cleaners etc.
> and do all the doctors want to be doctors and all the engineers want to be engineers.
> many do it for parents etc.
> a rethink needed .


As a job and a way for learning life skills? Totally agreeing, but as a career? It would be wasting time, don't think a hospital for example would find it a "bonus" if a doc had a couple years experience as a waiter/waitress *AFTER *graduation!

And yes, not everyone studies what they want in here and I did mention that before as well, MANY people don't have enough luck in the super smart "high school" thing in here and they'd be buried in some none sense major while they really are smart enough to be whatever they want, and some do it for "parents" like you said, but generally speaking, what's happening in Egypt is hanging the system's faults on people's lives! Which isn't doing any good! Not for the people nor the country!


----------



## MaidenScotland

What Egypt needs is the old fashioned technical colleges were you go to learn hairdressing, shorthand, typing, mechanics, cooking... I used to go to day release at technical college and loved it.. I even done a store keeping course once at night school there and I have albeit out of date a certificate that enables me to use and certify weight on a weigh bridge..My brother completed a course on personal fitness training through night schools at a technical college.
Proper training is needed in this country and it could be done through work and day release schemes and of course it gives people the status of attending college, there are no bigger snobs than Egyptians lol I might just right to the army and tell them this.


----------



## bat

DeadGuy said:


> As a job and a way for learning life skills? Totally agreeing, but as a career? It would be wasting time, don't think a hospital for example would find it a "bonus" if a doc had a couple years experience as a waiter/waitress *AFTER *graduation!
> 
> And yes, not everyone studies what they want in here and I did mention that before as well, MANY people don't have enough luck in the super smart "high school" thing in here and they'd be buried in some none sense major while they really are smart enough to be whatever they want, and some do it for "parents" like you said, but generally speaking, what's happening in Egypt is hanging the system's faults on people's lives! Which isn't doing any good! Not for the people nor the country!


out of egypt,
many many qualified people do any job whilst looking for the right one and somebody working at what ever job they find will not normally be looked down upon by potential employers.
also dont understand this ''high school''thing.
also i understand by your comments that your not a waiter either.


----------



## MaidenScotland

We are way off topic but I will leave it as this thread is rather interesting.


----------



## DeadGuy

MaidenScotland said:


> What Egypt needs is the old fashioned technical colleges were you go to learn hairdressing, shorthand, typing, mechanics, cooking... I used to go to day release at technical college and loved it.. I even done a store keeping course once at night school there and I have albeit out of date a certificate that enables me to use and certify weight on a weigh bridge..My brother completed a course on personal fitness training through night schools at a technical college.
> Proper training is needed in this country and it could be done through work and day release schemes and of course it gives people the status of attending college, there are no bigger snobs than Egyptians lol I might just right to the army and tell them this.


Totally agreeing! Technical colleges used to be a real source of well trained workforce back in 1950's to 1980's, but then the whole thing started falling down and the graduates of those colleges now would be really "smart" if they could spell their own names in Arabic!


----------



## bat

MaidenScotland said:


> What Egypt needs is the old fashioned technical colleges were you go to learn hairdressing, shorthand, typing, mechanics, cooking... I used to go to day release at technical college and loved it.. I even done a store keeping course once at night school there and I have albeit out of date a certificate that enables me to use and certify weight on a weigh bridge..My brother completed a course on personal fitness training through night schools at a technical college.
> Proper training is needed in this country and it could be done through work and day release schemes and of course it gives people the status of attending college, there are no bigger snobs than Egyptians lol I might just right to the army and tell them this.


yes they do have these colleges but for who,
for the lower classes, so somebody coming from '' higher class'' evan if interested would not be allowed by family to go.
this sort of mentality, needs to come from the people them selves.


----------



## MaidenScotland

as I said ... there are no bigger snobs than Egyptians.


----------



## MaidenScotland

bat said:


> yes they do have these colleges but for who,
> for the lower classes, so somebody coming from '' higher class'' evan if interested would not be allowed by family to go.
> this sort of mentality, needs to come from the people them selves.




Just re read your post... why are technical colleges only for lower classes? This is the sort of mentality that has brought this country down, ie if your rich you must be clever and therefore must train to be a doctor, CEO etc.. 
All further education should be assesed on ability and not the ability to pay... if you have the brains then uni it should be, if your are more adapt at using your hands then technical college is the place for you.


----------



## DeadGuy

bat said:


> out of egypt,
> many many qualified people do any job whilst looking for the right one and somebody working at what ever job they find will not normally be looked down upon by potential employers.
> also dont understand this ''high school''thing.
> also i understand by your comments that your not a waiter either.


Well many people do the same in here trust me, there are many people who work on other jobs but the lucky ones are the ones who can find a job that's partially related to their major or to the career they wanna have, but my point was to find a job that would ADD something useful to your CV for a specific career.

The "high school" thing is a long story, but simply it's just 2 years that would decide on what's your whole life is gonna be about, used to be 1 year but now they're 2, you get tested, your score decides for you, the exams are designed to test your memorizing ability, not creativity or anything else, so if you're really smart but can't memorize well, or if you had a fever or an accident when you're supposed to be in an exam, your whole life is ruined!

I tried to make my posts as neutral as possible, so I didn't talk about "me", but yes I was a waiter for a short while, and no, I would never do it again LOL! But, no, not cause I find it "embarrassing" to be a waiter! Just cause I find it low to be expected to lie to the guests and/or to offer things other than just food and drinks to them!


----------



## DeadGuy

MaidenScotland said:


> ...............
> All further education should be assesed on ability and not the ability to pay... if you have the brains then uni it should be, if your are more adapt at using your hands then technical college is the place for you.


:clap2::clap2::clap2:


----------



## MaidenScotland

DeadGuy said:


> Well many people do the same in here trust me, there are many people who work on other jobs but the lucky ones are the ones who can find a job that's partially related to their major or to the career they wanna have, but my point was to find a job that would ADD something useful to your CV for a specific career.
> 
> The "high school" thing is a long story, but simply it's just 2 years that would decide on what's your whole life is gonna be about, used to be 1 year but now they're 2, you get tested, your score decides for you, the exams are designed to test your memorizing ability, not creativity or anything else, so if you're really smart but can't memorize well, or if you had a fever or an accident when you're supposed to be in an exam, your whole life is ruined!
> 
> I tried to make my posts as neutral as possible, so I didn't talk about "me", but yes I was a waiter for a short while, and no, I would never do it again LOL! But, no, not cause I find it "embarrassing" to be a waiter! Just cause I find it low to be expected lie to the customers and/or to offer things other than just food and drinks to them!




I am glad to hear that being a waiter did not embarress you... but that is not the norm here... I have had every sort of job imaginable and been proud to do each and every one.. I had to feed myself and pay a morgage so no choice. I got my house boy a part time job at my local pharmacy which he turned down as he would have to clean shelves and his friends would see him..


----------



## DeadGuy

MaidenScotland said:


> I am glad to hear that being a waiter did not embarress you... but that is not the norm here... I have had every sort of job imaginable and been proud to do each and every one.. I had to feed myself and pay a morgage so no choice. I got my house boy a part time job at my local pharmacy which he turned down as he would have to clean shelves and his friends would see him..


Well, again, I'm always trying to keep my posts objective so I keep my personal judgment for myself, but for me if someone finds it "embarrassing" to do something that others need to do then he/she should be embarrassed of being a complete idiot!


----------



## bat

DeadGuy said:


> Well many people do the same in here trust me, there are many people who work on other jobs but the lucky ones are the ones who can find a job that's partially related to their major or to the career they wanna have, but my point was to find a job that would ADD something useful to your CV for a specific career.
> 
> The "high school" thing is a long story, but simply it's just 2 years that would decide on what's your whole life is gonna be about, used to be 1 year but now they're 2, you get tested, your score decides for you, the exams are designed to test your memorizing ability, not creativity or anything else, so if you're really smart but can't memorize well, or if you had a fever or an accident when you're supposed to be in an exam, your whole life is ruined!
> 
> I tried to make my posts as neutral as possible, so I didn't talk about "me", but yes I was a waiter for a short while, and no, I would never do it again LOL! But, no, not cause I find it "embarrassing" to be a waiter! Just cause I find it low to be expected lie to the customers and/or to offer things other than just food and drinks to them!


so being a waiter is not adding anything useful to your cv.
no technical college not just for lower classes but ,have you met any doctors lawyers engineers etc who have there children there.
evan higher class kids who are thick as what ever still manage to get to a uni.
helwan, zag a zig. to do what ive no idea but technical college not on the radar.


----------



## hurghadapat

MaidenScotland said:


> We are way off topic but I will leave it as this thread is rather interesting.


WOOOOW......what a can of worms i have opened....and all began with a simple question or two.:juggle:


----------



## bat

MaidenScotland said:


> Just re read your post... why are technical colleges only for lower classes? This is the sort of mentality that has brought this country down, ie if your rich you must be clever and therefore must train to be a doctor, CEO etc..
> All further education should be assesed on ability and not the ability to pay... if you have the brains then uni it should be, if your are more adapt at using your hands then technical college is the place for you.


ask any ''high class'' egyptian who these collages are for and of course all there darlings are clever and fit for uni
and ain shams uni cairo uni etc free
also auc etc do give scholarships,for exceptional bright kids who are unable to pay.


----------



## DeadGuy

bat said:


> so being a waiter is not adding anything useful to your cv.
> no technical college not just for lower classes but ,have you met any doctors lawyers engineers etc who have there children there.
> evan higher class kids who are thick as what ever still manage to get to a uni.
> helwan, zag a zig. to do what ive no idea but technical college not on the radar.


Well no? Being able to take orders and put them on a table got nothing to do with what I'm qualified to do or what I wanna do for the rest of my life? So I don't think it would add anything to my *professional *CV?


----------



## bat

DeadGuy said:


> Well no? Being able to take orders and put them on a table got nothing to do with what I'm qualified to do or what I wanna do for the rest of my life? So I don't think it would add anything to my *professional *CV?


by the same thread taking orders and putting food on the table , does not qualify you to be a waiter waitress so neither does attending an egyptian uni qualify you to be a doctor dentist engineer or lawyer either.


----------



## SHendra

DeadGuy said:


> Well no? Being able to take orders and put them on a table got nothing to do with what I'm qualified to do or what I wanna do for the rest of my life? So I don't think it would add anything to my *professional *CV?


Hey DG,

This is another difference in here and our own countries.. this would actually enhance your CV in our countries. Not for being able to take orders from people granted but it would in other parts such as your eagerness to work, punctuality to be at work, people skills etc .. you will find professions seaking workers actually see things like this as a big big plus on top of whatever they qualified to be. And would actually choose them over the ones who just have their qualifications and not done any work at all!


----------



## MaidenScotland

The fact that native English speakers can come to a country and be employed as a teacher without any qualifications what so ever.. says it all really.. there are no standards here.


----------



## DeadGuy

bat said:


> by the same thread taking orders and putting food on the table , does not qualify you to be a waiter waitress so neither does attending an egyptian uni qualify you to be a doctor dentist engineer or lawyer either.


Well, that's not what the EGYPTIAN ministry of "higher education" says is it?! In here you study in law school, you're a qualified lawyer, medical school, you're a qualified doctor and so on! And that's what I been talking about earlier actually! You're there to study something and then BE that thing, but then you're told no, not good enough!


----------



## bat

DeadGuy said:


> Well no? Being able to take orders and put them on a table got nothing to do with what I'm qualified to do or what I wanna do for the rest of my life? So I don't think it would add anything to my *professional *CV?


many many high 
class waiters consider it a career and a profession for which they get very well paid ,and are very well known and in demand.
back on to subject
did any one get there 500 then?


----------



## MaidenScotland

DeadGuy said:


> Well, that's not what the EGYPTIAN ministry of "higher education" says is it?! In here you study in law school, you're a qualified lawyer, medical school, you're a qualified doctor and so on! And that's what I been talking about earlier actually! You're there to study something and then BE that thing, but then you're told no, not good enough!




mmm not sure if I am reading this right... you can be told your not good enough?
I am glad to hear that as I thought going on experience that if you could pay to go and study you were good enough.

I actually tried to hire an accountant once and discovered he was actually a clerk and coundn't do books to trial balance!! but he was a qualified accountant according to his school in Cairo,


----------



## DeadGuy

SHendra said:


> Hey DG,
> 
> This is another difference in here and our own countries.. this would actually enhance your CV in our countries. Not for being able to take orders from people granted but it would in other parts such as your eagerness to work, punctuality to be at work, people skills etc .. you will find professions seaking workers actually see things like this as a big big plus on top of whatever they qualified to be. And would actually choose them over the ones who just have their qualifications and not done any work at all!


Hope you don't really think that I don't know that! I know how things work in Europe and else where believe it or not!

But again, it's EGYPT in here! If you add "Waitress" for a specific period of time to your CV it will probably get excluded if you're not applying for a job where you'd work as a waitress! And they make it clear as well in case you people haven't noticed! "Minimum ?/?? years experience working in the REQUIRED field"?! That's what employers in EGYPT are mainly looking for?!


----------



## hurghadapat

bat said:


> many many high
> class waiters consider it a career and a profession for which they get very well paid ,and are very well known and in demand.
> back on to subject
> did any one get there 500 then?


Just to take it back off topic again.......you complain about Egypt but what must it be like to live in Cuba where almost everyone gets paid the same wage no matter what profession you are in !!!!.....so not uncommon to find doctors and other highly qualified people working in the tourist industry,because by doing that they can supplement their wages with tips.....and don't really think anyone got the 500LE..just chinese whispers i think


----------



## SHendra

DeadGuy said:


> Hope you don't really think that I don't know that! I know how things work in Europe and else where believe it or not!
> 
> But again, it's EGYPT in here! If you add "Waitress" for a specific period of time to your CV it will probably get excluded if you're not applying for a job where you'd work as a waitress! And they make it clear as well in case you people haven't noticed! "Minimum ?/?? years experience working in the REQUIRED field"?! That's what employers in EGYPT are mainly looking for?!


No I ain't trying to say your stupid etc, obviously your not! ;p

But while saying all this I will add our own countries has its own sillyness sometimes when it comes to working too! You actually find people not getting work for being 'over qualified and too much experience'! Or the other way around! It's quite often a catch 22 situation, even in our countries!


----------



## DeadGuy

MaidenScotland said:


> mmm not sure if I am reading this right... you can be told your not good enough?
> I am glad to hear that as I thought going on experience that if you could pay to go and study you were good enough.
> 
> I actually tried to hire an accountant once and discovered he was actually a clerk and coundn't do books to trial balance!! but he was a qualified accountant according to his school in Cairo,


Yes, you're told that you're not good enough if the only thing you got is your degree, but again, I was not talking about that, obviously I already know that what people are taught in here doesn't make them good enough! What I am talking about is the "government" attitude, they either need to fix the bloody educational "system" and help graduates be "good enough", or they should find jobs that are suitable for what the "government" itself claims that they're "qualifying" you to be! Cause it's a real shame for people to waste years doing [email protected] studies and then get nothing out of it!


----------



## MaidenScotland

Has anyone seen the remote for my tv???


----------



## bat

DeadGuy said:


> Yes, you're told that you're not good enough if the only thing you got is your degree, but again, I was not talking about that, obviously I already know that what people are taught in here doesn't make them good enough! What I am talking about is the "government" attitude, they either need to fix the bloody educational "system" and help graduates be "good enough", or they should find jobs that are suitable for what the "government" itself claims that they're "qualifying" you to be! Cause it's a real shame for people to waste years doing [email protected] studies and then get nothing out of it!


ahh but on the other hand it will qualify you to marry another in your profession who is good enough and let them make the money.
just because you did the study is not to say your good at it.


----------



## bat

MaidenScotland said:


> Has anyone seen the remote for my tv???


to watch what exactly.


----------



## DeadGuy

bat said:


> ahh but on the other hand it will qualify you to marry another in your profession who is good enough and let them make the money.
> just because you did the study is not to say your good at it.


Sorry but that wasn't a serious post was it? :confused2:


----------



## bat

DeadGuy said:


> Hope you don't really think that I don't know that! I know how things work in Europe and else where believe it or not!
> 
> But again, it's EGYPT in here! If you add "Waitress" for a specific period of time to your CV it will probably get excluded if you're not applying for a job where you'd work as a waitress! And they make it clear as well in case you people haven't noticed! "Minimum ?/?? years experience working in the REQUIRED field"?! That's what employers in EGYPT are mainly looking for?!


not necessarily so, now there are HR.managers about the good ones can see the advantage of any kind of cv,with minimum years experience included as well as previous jobs.


----------



## bat

DeadGuy said:


> Sorry but that wasn't a serious post was it? :confused2:


deadly.


----------



## txlstewart

MaidenScotland said:


> The fact that native English speakers can come to a country and be employed as a teacher without any qualifications what so ever.. says it all really.. there are no standards here.


I agree 100% with you! It is alarming! It is one thing to be familiar with the subject, but it is difficult to present it to students in a meaningful way without having some sort of coursework that shows one HOW to teach. 

As to the "drill and kill" memorization method preferred here: The first school I worked at had a English Dept. Head that is Egyptian. She told me that I shouldn't worry about my students' lack of reading comprehension and just get the short stories covered. Literary analysis must be taught (one story a week), but who cares about whether or not they even understand what they read..... Very disheartening.


----------



## MensEtManus

In Alexandria, there are no signs of the 500 le "yet."

My day to day activities today have nothing to do with anything I studied. Actually, I think I should've gone to the military (air force or army) or something like that to get some training. I spend lot of time policing and double checking if folks are following the guidelines. The little time I do have left becomes sales and hr problems. 

Actually, come to think of it, I hated what I studied during university years. I wanted to change, but I had a lot of sunk cost.


----------



## bat

MensEtManus said:


> In Alexandria, there are no signs of the 500 le "yet."
> 
> My day to day activities today have nothing to do with anything I studied. Actually, I think I should've gone to the military (air force or army) or something like that to get some training. I spend lot of time policing and double checking if folks are following the guidelines. The little time I do have left becomes sales and hr problems.
> 
> Actually, come to think of it, I hated what I studied during university years. I wanted to change, but I had a lot of sunk cost.


you and i must work at the same job except i also have cleaning duty, as well as all the above.but i have the advantage of being an army brat.


----------



## aykalam

bat said:


> ahh but on the other hand it will qualify you to marry another in your profession who is good enough and let them make the money.


huh?


----------

