# €30k fine for abandoning a dog/cat in Madrid



## Chopera (Apr 22, 2013)

Hasta 30.000 euros de multa por pegar o abandonar a un perro en Madrid | Madrid | EL MUNDO

Might be of interest to a few posters


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Chopera said:


> Hasta 30.000 euros de multa por pegar o abandonar a un perro en Madrid | Madrid | EL MUNDO
> 
> Might be of interest to a few posters


I thought it was something to do with an EU ruling and applies to all of Spain?


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## Chopera (Apr 22, 2013)

mrypg9 said:


> I thought it was something to do with an EU ruling and applies to all of Spain?


A case of them actually getting round to ratifying it?


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

Typical kneejerk reaction by Spain's legislators to a problem.

I recall several years back when there was total uproar about the changes to traffic offences and their punishments. If I remember correctly, the fine for double parking went up from 90€ to 900€.

During one particularly animated coffee break with my colleagues, who were complaining that the new law was barbaric and the fine totally disproportional, I asked them if they were admitting that they were regular offenders. Of course they were, they saw nothing wrong with it. So then I asked if they had ever been fined for it.... No-one, not one single person even claimed to know anyone who had been fined for double parking. So I asked them what they were complaining about....

If there is no policing of the law, increasing the penalty is useless.


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## Chopera (Apr 22, 2013)

The article in the paper also mentions a €6k fine for letting your dog bark continuously, but it doesn't mention it in the online version. Something that might be relevant to another recent thread.


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## Chopera (Apr 22, 2013)

Overandout said:


> Typical kneejerk reaction by Spain's legislators to a problem.
> 
> I recall several years back when there was total uproar about the changes to traffic offences and their punishments. If I remember correctly, the fine for double parking went up from 90€ to 900€.
> 
> ...


It's the usual problem in Spain. Laws aren't enforced so people end up ignoring them and eventually assume that they no longer apply. You end up with a situation where the police and local authorities effectively decide what is and isn't law according to their whims at the time. "La Ley Costa" is another example.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

The far more serious consequences of this is the effect on the poor animal of such a law - mutilation, and possibly death. More particularly for those dogs that have registered owners.


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

I fear this will be yet another sanction which will be available but rarely or never applied.

Málaga analizará el ADN de los perros para multar a los dueños que no recojan los excrementos . SUR.es

The most likely culprits will be those who don't have their dogs micro-chipped anyway.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Chopera said:


> It's the usual problem in Spain. Laws aren't enforced so people end up ignoring them and eventually assume that they no longer apply. You end up with a situation where the police and local authorities effectively decide what is and isn't law according to their whims at the time. "La Ley Costa" is another example.


there were protests & all sorts when the (then) new mayor decided to enforce the Ley de la Costa here

One thing was to stop restaurants from having tables right up to the sea wall in the port. Personally I supported it, because it meant that you could sit on a public bench without feeling like you had to buy a drink, & you didn't have to run the gauntlet of waiting staff when you walked along the paseo

now no-one even thinks about it - the paseo is exactly that & you don't hear complaints any more


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Lynn R said:


> I fear this will be yet another sanction which will be available but rarely or never applied.
> 
> Málaga analizará el ADN de los perros para multar a los dueños que no recojan los excrementos . SUR.es
> 
> The most likely culprits will be those who don't have their dogs micro-chipped anyway.


I was reading about that being done in the US. There is no way they could practically do it in Spain; it would cost a fortune and first they would have to collect DNA samples of all the dogs in the area ... yeah right. But if it scares enough owners people into picking up their pooch-poo, it can't be bad. 

DNA Testing Bags Dog Poop Scofflaws


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

Alcalaina said:


> I was reading about that being done in the US. There is no way they could practically do it in Spain; it would cost a fortune and first they would have to collect DNA samples of all the dogs in the area ... yeah right. But if it scares enough owners people into picking up their pooch-poo, it can't be bad.
> 
> DNA Testing Bags Dog Poop Scofflaws


Now Málaga City Council is talking about fining people up to €500 if they don't register their dog's DNA (having given owners of all micro-chipped dogs in the area 6 months to comply).

Multas de hasta 500 euros para quien no someta su perro a las pruebas de ADN . SUR.es

It just doesn't seem to have dawned on them that the people who are most likely not to pick up their dog's mess are the same ones who are least likely not to have them micro-chipped or ever take them anywhere near a vet. I wonder what they'll do when they have the offending deposits analysed and find out they don't belong to any registered pets - doh!

I (and other neighbours) have suggested more than once at neighbourhood meetings with Councillors and the head of the Policia Local that the best way to tackle this problem would be to send officers to patrol selected areas between say 8 and 9 am, which is when most of the irresponsible owners send their dogs out into the street unaccompanied to leave their mess outside other people's houses, catch any dogs they observe doing this and if they're micro-chipped, fine the owners. If they're not micro-chipped, they should confiscate the dogs and take them to a perrera where the owners can claim them if they want, but not without paying the fines. It would only have to happen a few times and people would get the message that this isn't acceptable.

But no, the Council seem to prefer to spend money on one useless "educación" campaign after another which the offenders take no notice of, whilst the problem continues as bad as ever.


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## Gazeebo (Jan 23, 2015)

Not picking up dog poo is an on-going problem. I take my dog for a walk every morning and pick up his poo. I try to get him to do it in the road or on wasteland and not on the pavement. However, on the route I take there are (large) deposits of poo which are not cleared up. Back in England ,I and subsequently my neighbours, tackled a family that let their dog leave his deposits wherever he wanted and they never cleared them up. I stopped the husband and gave him his dog's poo that I had bagged for him. Will I do this in Spain if I catch the person responsible? I don't know. Perhaps I will politely offer them a bag as though I am doing them a favour.
What really should concern people are the health risks, especially if children accidentally get it on them.
Whatever, it shows what kind of people they are - selfish and uncaring.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Lynn R said:


> if they're micro-chipped, fine the owners. If they're not micro-chipped, they should confiscate the dogs and take them to a perrera where *the owners can claim them if they want*, but not without paying the fines. It would only have to happen a few times and people would get the message that this isn't acceptable.


The problem is the owners wouldn't bother. Which means the Council has a large number of unwanted dogs to deal with - how many would just be put down?


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

baldilocks said:


> The problem is the owners wouldn't bother. Which means the Council has a large number of unwanted dogs to deal with - how many would just be put down?


If I'm honest, that consideration comes a long way second for me to the fact that I am sick of dodging piles of s··t in the street every day, having to pick it up myself from outside my house if it's left after the street sweeper has been round in the morning although I don't even have a dog, and the associated problems people have with flies, bad smells, getting it on their pram and moto wheels and spreading it all over the pavement, before we even consider the potential serious health issues mentioned by Gazeebo. Children routinely play in the street here, as you know. All it takes is for one to fall over, accidentally touch some or even the residue left from it and then rub their eyes, and they can end up losing their sight. I am sure this will offend dog lovers, but that is more important to me than the life of a dog which the owners don't really want if they wouldn't bother to collect it from a perrera.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

These scare tactics do work. Our council had a campaign a few years ago saying that owners would be fined €60 if their dogs fouled the pavements, and that any stray unchipped dogs would be taken to the perrera and put down if not claimed within a week. I've no idea whether anyone was actually fined or any dogs destroyed but it had the desired effect; it's rare to see dogs not on a lead now, and the amount if cr*p has decreased noticeably.

Their latest poster, however, bans dogs urinating on the streets. That will be interesting ...


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## jimenato (Nov 21, 2009)

Lynn R said:


> If I'm honest, that consideration comes a long way second for me to the fact that I am sick of dodging piles of s··t in the street every day, having to pick it up myself from outside my house if it's left after the street sweeper has been round in the morning although I don't even have a dog, and the associated problems people have with flies, bad smells, getting it on their pram and moto wheels and spreading it all over the pavement, before we even consider the potential serious health issues mentioned by Gazeebo. Children routinely play in the street here, as you know. All it takes is for one to fall over, accidentally touch some or even the residue left from it and then rub their eyes, and they can end up losing their sight. I am sure this will offend dog lovers, but that is more important to me than the life of a dog which the owners don't really want if they wouldn't bother to collect it from a perrera.


I am a dog lover and owner of three. I agree with this.

Note that kids don't have to touch or rub their eyes - getting it in their mouths will do it.

Toxocariasis


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## Isobella (Oct 16, 2014)

baldilocks said:


> The problem is the owners wouldn't bother. Which means the Council has a large number of unwanted dogs to deal with - how many would just be put down?


Yes and a few weeks later get another dog.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Isobella said:


> Yes and a few weeks later get another dog.


Those with a dog that is registered to them and which they want to get rid of will perform coarse surgery to remove the chip often with a sharp knife or scissors, thereby abandoning an animal that is at risk of dying through infection.


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## xgarb (May 6, 2011)

Isobella said:


> Yes and a few weeks later get another dog.


They need to tackle this as well. My opinion is that any puppy sold has to be registered (DNA maybe to stop chips being removed) and the new owner has to pay a registration fee of 500€.

If the animal is sold neutered this could be reduced to 300€.

Anyone selling more than a certain amount of puppies every year should also have to pay an annual charge. Sales of animals through free ads should be banned (no more impulse buys of cute puppies)

Anyone abandoning an animal should be fined but.. it should be easy for someone, who for whatever reason can't keep an animal, to take it to the rehoming centre. If they do this, they are ineligible to have a new dog for two years.

In short.. it needs to be difficult and expensive to get a puppy. If someone wants a dog the best or only option available should be to get an animal that someone else couldn't keep.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Gazeebo said:


> Not picking up dog poo is an on-going problem. I take my dog for a walk every morning and pick up his poo. I try to get him to do it in the road or on wasteland and not on the pavement. However, on the route I take there are (large) deposits of poo which are not cleared up. Back in England ,I and subsequently my neighbours, tackled a family that let their dog leave his deposits wherever he wanted and they never cleared them up. I stopped the husband and gave him his dog's poo that I had bagged for him. Will I do this in Spain if I catch the person responsible? I don't know. Perhaps I will politely offer them a bag as though I am doing them a favour.
> What really should concern people are the health risks, especially if children accidentally get it on them.
> Whatever, it shows what kind of people they are - selfish and uncaring.


We had a fenced dog park installed recently - poo bins are provided, as are benches for the owners while the dogs can run free, there are some trees for shade & more landscaping, dog agility equipment etc. is planned

This was opened in response to a campaign by dog-owners

I don't have a dog, so I haven't been there, but I'm glad I don't live too close, because apparently a lot of owners are taking their dogs there & not scooping the poop


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Various people (Spaniards) have seen us picking up after our two and we now see a lot more Spanish people doing it (picking up, not pooping!)


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

xabiachica said:


> We had a fenced dog park installed recently - poo bins are provided, as are benches for the owners while the dogs can run free, there are some trees for shade & more landscaping, dog agility equipment etc. is planned
> 
> This was opened in response to a campaign by dog-owners
> 
> I don't have a dog, so I haven't been there, but I'm glad I don't live too close, because apparently a lot of owners are taking their dogs there & not scooping the poop


We have one of those in our town too, apparently there have been complaints from residents living very close to it, not about owners not picking up the dog poo, but about the noise from barking dogs.

I see in Sur in English today that 310 fines of up to €500 each have been imposed by Málaga City Council in the first nine months of this year for not picking up dog poo, so at least there the sanctions do seem to be being used. How I wish my own town Council would do the same.


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