# Another summer, another pool problem...



## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Our pool looks horrible, cloudy green/grey/brown floating particles..
Presumably dead algae.
I've poured in floculant, didn't help. I've vacuumed to waste, some of the muck went but the vacuuming, however carefully done, stirred up the particles, quite big ones and they just settled in cloudy clusters..
One website suggested pouring in up to thirty litres of liquid chlorine....sounds drastic.
I use those three action tablets for routine maintenance.
This got really bad after the rain last week.
Has anyone else had similar problems and if so how were they resolved?


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

mrypg9 said:


> Our pool looks horrible, cloudy green/grey/brown floating particles..
> Presumably dead algae.
> I've poured in floculant, didn't help. I've vacuumed to waste, some of the muck went but the vacuuming, however carefully done, stirred up the particles, quite big ones and they just settled in cloudy clusters..
> One website suggested pouring in up to thirty litres of liquid chlorine....sounds drastic.
> ...




Hi, nice speedy response. I'm sure others will tell you I'm talking rubbish but here goes anyway ...


I would add a LOT of liquid chlorine (perhaps not as much as you quoted though) and then leave the pump on overnight.

On my system I have the choice as to whether to filter through the skimmer box, the bottom drain or both. If you have the same, close the valve for the skimmer boxes so that all water is pulled through the drain on its way to the filter.

Check the pool again tomorrow and the water should look a lot cleaner.

If you still have muck on the bottom, hoover to waste but very, very slowly trying not to kick it up.

Best of luck.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

snikpoh said:


> Hi, nice speedy response. I'm sure others will tell you I'm talking rubbish but here goes anyway ...
> 
> 
> I would add a LOT of liquid chlorine (perhaps not as much as you quoted though) and then leave the pump on overnight.
> ...


Thankyou so muchXxx I'll try that.
A couple more dopey questions: the valves on the pipes are marked Limpia Fondo/ boquillo, Slimmer and Boquillo.
When I clean I open Limpia fondo / boquillo valve and close the one marked Skimmer. Should the third one, boquillo, be open or closed? Pump is set to waste.
If I want to backwash how should I set the valves?
I know these are really dumb questions but so far I've muddled through with help from you guys..
Oh, there is another valve on the pipe that's vertical leading to under the pump, that's on Open. It hasn't got a tag so I don't know its function.


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## stevesainty (Jan 7, 2011)

I´m not a pool expert but am a keen amateur who has had guidance from a pool expert.

The cloudiness is probably due to algae as you suspected and if the particles are too fine then they will not be trapped by the sand filter.

However, the fist thing you should do is give the sides of the pool a good scrub to get rid of the rest of the algae spores. Leave it overnight with the pump off to allow everything to settle to the bottom. The next day carefully vacuum the bottom to get rid of as much of the debris as possible. Back wash and rinse the sand filter. Turn the pump back on. 

You now need to test the water. I test for free chlorine, total chlorine, PH, total alkalinity and cyanuric acid.

I suspect your total alkalinity is low due in part because of the rain that is slightly acidic. You can remedy this by using some bi carb from Mercadona, but only use a 1/4 kilo at a time and mix with a big bucket of water before adding it to the pool. Mine was also too low this week.

I also suspect that your cyanuric acid level will be too high, this is due in part to the type of chlorine tablets you use. The only way to reduce the CYA is to dilute the pool water by draining 1/3 to 1/2 and topping up with fresh water. Too much CYA negates the effects of the chlorine on the algae bloom even though the chlorine levels read OK.

You should only use floc if all your other readings are good because although it makes the fine particles stick together in bigger lumps so that they get trapped by the sand filter, it may mask underlying symptoms of chemical imbalance.

In theory you should not add chemicals routinely unless a test of the water shows that there is a deficiency, however you get to know your own pool.

Once your pool chemistry is back in balance, just run the pump for a few extra hours and that should clear the cloudiness.

I hope that this helps.

A pool is hardly ever terminally ill and require emptying and cleaning and can be put right if the right procedures are followed, lots of help online.

If I have upset any true pool experts on this forum then I apologise and would welcome being shown the error of my ways.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

stevesainty said:


> I´m not a pool expert but am a keen amateur who has had guidance from a pool expert.
> 
> The cloudiness is probably due to algae as you suspected and if the particles are too fine then they will not be trapped by the sand filter.
> 
> ...



Thankyou Steve, advice very much appreciated. I need a newbtesting kit, mine is very basic, doesn't do all those things.


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## stevesainty (Jan 7, 2011)

mrypg9 said:


> Thankyou so muchXxx I'll try that.
> A couple more dopey questions: the valves on the pipes are marked Limpia Fondo/ boquillo, Slimmer and Boquillo.
> When I clean I open Limpia fondo / boquillo valve and close the one marked Skimmer. Should the third one, boquillo, be open or closed? Pump is set to waste.
> If I want to backwash how should I set the valves?
> ...



Unless you are vacuuming to waste the only valves that you need to alter from the normal filtration settings are to close the skimmer valve and open the vacuum valve. This diverts all the suction to the vacuum point. I find that if I close the sump valve, normally set at 1/4 I get too much suction and it collapses the vacuum pipe. If indeed you are vacuuming to waste then you need to open the waste valve and turn the multiport valve to Waste.

You do not need to alter the multiport valve, the one with the big handle and the sections that have writing on them, for normal vacuuming. The limpia setting is for backwashing the sand filter.


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## stevesainty (Jan 7, 2011)

mrypg9 said:


> Thankyou Steve, advice very much appreciated. I need a newbtesting kit, mine is very basic, doesn't do all those things.


I use a digital spectrometer kit made by Lovibond, the model is Scuba II. The kit with starter tablets is about 130€ off eBay.es and is from Germany. The kit comes with a season´s worth of testing tablets and is dead simple to use, but it takes all the guesswork out of testing. 3 year´s worth of replacement tablets costs about 100€.


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## thrax (Nov 13, 2008)

You need to find a tester that tests the amount of stabiliser you have (cyanuric acid as steve metioned) - not all testers will give you this. However, no matter how much chlorine you add to the pool, if your stabiliser is too high the chlorine won't be released so no use. Your best bet is to drain the pool and refill. Practically all chlorine tablets you buy in Spain contain stabiliser and the only way you can be rid of it is through evaporation and cleaning to waste. However, eventually it builds up to a level where any chlorine you add won't be released. The point of stabiliser is to slow the release of chlorine in very hot conditions. Too much and it prevents the release entirely. If your pool problem is too much stabiliser then you can try emptying maybe half the water but if you can buy a tester strip which includes a stabiliser test (they cost around €10 for 50 strips) you will be able to determine how much stabiliser you have. Anything over 300 parts per million means emptying the pool and starting again. How often do you clean to waste and then top it up?? If you don't then my guess is stabiliser is your problem. I might add that when I lived in UK I had absolutely no idea that one day I would have the pool knowledge..


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

stevesainty said:


> Unless you are vacuuming to waste the only valves that you need to alter from the normal filtration settings are to close the skimmer valve and open the vacuum valve. This diverts all the suction to the vacuum point. I find that if I close the sump valve, normally set at 1/4 I get too much suction and it collapses the vacuum pipe. If indeed you are vacuuming to waste then you need to open the waste valve and turn the multiport valve to Waste.
> 
> You do not need to alter the multiport valve, the one with the big handle and the sections that have writing on them, for normal vacuuming. The limpia setting is for backwashing the sand filter.


Which is the sump valve? Is it theboquillo and ne? Or the one on the pipe that goes into the cellar floor near the pump?
Thanks again.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

thrax said:


> You need to find a tester that tests the amount of stabiliser you have (cyanuric acid as steve metioned) - not all testers will give you this. However, no matter how much chlorine you add to the pool, if your stabiliser is too high the chlorine won't be released so no use. Your best bet is to drain the pool and refill. Practically all chlorine tablets you buy in Spain contain stabiliser and the only way you can be rid of it is through evaporation and cleaning to waste. However, eventually it builds up to a level where any chlorine you add won't be released. The point of stabiliser is to slow the release of chlorine in very hot conditions. Too much and it prevents the release entirely. If your pool problem is too much stabiliser then you can try emptying maybe half the water but if you can buy a tester strip which includes a stabiliser test (they cost around €10 for 50 strips) you will be able to determine how much stabiliser you have. Anything over 300 parts per million means emptying the pool and starting again. How often do you clean to waste and then top it up?? If you don't then my guess is stabiliser is your problem. I might add that when I lived in UK I had absolutely no idea that one day I would have the pool knowledge..


Thankyou xx


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## banana plant (Mar 15, 2016)

get a man in.


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## Desiato (Jun 1, 2015)

Boquilla – return pipe to pool
Limpia fondo - side wall vacuum outlet to pump/filter
Sumidero – bottom drain to pump/filter
Skimmer – skimmer outlet to pump/filter

The pipe without a name will be the waste pipe that is used to drain the water away.
There are three ways for water to leave your pool. Through the skimmer, through the bottom drain and through the side wall vacuum pipe. You open the Limpia Fondo (vacuum) when you want to hoover the pool and close the other two (skimmer and bottom drain). Sometimes, you’ll notice the pressure drop on your valve when you do this so open the bottom drain valve slightly to get the pressure back up a bit. This is filtering the water through your sand filter and you do this first, you only clean to waste as a last resort as this loses lots of water and chemicals. One tip, if the filter is running, open the vacuum valve first and THEN close the skimmer and bottom drain valves. Never the other way round. If you close the skimmer and bottom drain valves before opening the vacuum valve, you could blow up your filter (I’ve done this, had to replace the pipes that connected to the filter as they broke under the pressure build up in the filter). 

The Boquilla (return) is almost always left open. It’s open when filtering and it’s open when cleaning. You only ever close it when you are emptying water from the pool (cleaning to waste or removing water to remove the build up of stabilizer).

When you are filtering you will have the vacuum return closed (Boquilla) and the other three open. When you want to backwash you don’t need to change any of these, you just move the handle from filter to backwash (when the pump is not running, never when it is running). 

CYA/Stabilizer builds up in the water and can only be removed by draining, it doesn’t evaporate away. It’s why pool maintenance guys start the new season by draining half of your pool and if you use chlorine pucks or granules then you should to. Only liquid chlorine/bleech doesn’t add stabilizer and therefore doesn't require a pool drain every year but that’s another story. 

First things first, if you are serious about getting your pool clean and keeping it crystal clear, spend the money on a proper test kit which will set you back over €100. It’s the best money you’ll spend on your pool because without it, you’ll just be splashing about in the dark hoping you are doing the right thing. Unfortunately, there’s no “do this one thing and all your problems are solved” answer, it’s a process but dumping lots of bleach/chlorine in the pool is the next step but the amount is based on your pool size and all the other chemical levels which you don’t know until you have a proper test kit.


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

Desiato said:


> Boquilla – return pipe to pool
> Limpia fondo - side wall vacuum outlet to pump/filter
> Sumidero – bottom drain to pump/filter
> Skimmer – skimmer outlet to pump/filter



I thought Boquilla was for the 'robot' as in suction rather than return?

If not, and with just those valves mentioned, where does the robot plug in?


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## Desiato (Jun 1, 2015)

snikpoh said:


> I thought Boquilla was for the 'robot' as in suction rather than return?
> 
> If not, and with just those valves mentioned, where does the robot plug in?


Boquillas is definitely the return to the pool (just ran out to check). Limpiafondo is the side wall suction for the vacuum which I guess is where you would plug in a robot.


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## Stevesolar (Dec 21, 2012)

Hi,
I find all the levers and valves a bit confusing - so leave our pool care to the pool maintenance guy that comes and looks after ours twice per week.
Luckily, most villas in Abu Dhabi have pools - so maintenance costs are kept low, due to fierce competition.
Ours costs about £80 per month for two visits per week, including necessary chemicals.
I checked online for a simple DIY pool care guide and found this useful file:-
http://springfieldpoolandspa.com/service_docs/Maintenance IG Revised.pdf
Cheers
Steve


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## Desiato (Jun 1, 2015)

Stevesolar said:


> Hi,
> I find all the levers and valves a bit confusing - so leave our pool care to the pool maintenance guy that comes and looks after ours twice per week.
> Luckily, most villas in Abu Dhabi have pools - so maintenance costs are kept low, due to fierce competition.
> Ours costs about £80 per month for two visits per week, including necessary chemicals.
> ...


I just read the first 4 pages of that pdf and then stopped. The first two of the "5 keys to to great pool care" are wrong and there are other bits of misinformation in the following 2 pages that is more likely going to confuse rather than help. There may be some helpful info in the rest of it but I'd take it with a pinch of salt and cross check it with other sites to be sure. 

1) Circulation, you do not need to run your pump 24/7. From previous discussions it transpired that I have one of the highest electricity bills on here and if I left my pump on 24/7, my bill would double or in euros, will add between €200 and €300 to your bill every two months (unless you have a variable speed pump and run it on it's lowest setting). 4 hours a day during high season is considered to be adequate and you can run your pump for 1 hour a day from October to March (I did without any problems, even had the pump off for a week accidentally in December and still didn't get any green nastiness).

2) Backwashing. You don't need to backwash once a week. You backwash when your filter tells you it needs backwashing. Backwashing when the PSI has risen by 10 is also incorrect, you backwash when your pressure valve has increased 25% from it's post backwash starting position. For example, if your pressure valve reads 8 after doing a backwash, you need to backwash again when it gets to 10 (an increase of 25%). If you wait until it gets to 18 (up 10 psi) your pressure has increased over 100%! Also, there is some science that says a filter works better when it is a little dirty. The dirt in the filter is clogging up the gaps in the sand and is therefore filtering more dirt out of the water so backwashing on a regular basis may actually be counter productive. For the record, I am backwashing once every three months. Before I learnt how to maintain the pool properly I was backwashing two or three times a week because the pressure valve was going from 10 psi to 30 psi! (I had an ongoing algae problem despite the water being clear). Since October last year, my costs for looking after the pool myself is about €50 (€48 in bleach and a 2L bottle of acid). If you can a afford a pool guy great but it's perfectly possible to do it yourself.


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## Stevesolar (Dec 21, 2012)

Desiato said:


> I just read the first 4 pages of that pdf and then stopped. The first two of the "5 keys to to great pool care" are wrong and there are other bits of misinformation in the following 2 pages that is more likely going to confuse rather than help. There may be some helpful info in the rest of it but I'd take it with a pinch of salt and cross check it with other sites to be sure.
> 
> 1) Circulation, you do not need to run your pump 24/7. From previous discussions it transpired that I have one of the highest electricity bills on here and if I left my pump on 24/7, my bill would double or in euros, will add between €200 and €300 to your bill every two months (unless you have a variable speed pump and run it on it's lowest setting). 4 hours a day during high season is considered to be adequate and you can run your pump for 1 hour a day from October to March (I did without any problems, even had the pump off for a week accidentally in December and still didn't get any green nastiness).
> 
> 2) Backwashing. You don't need to backwash once a week. You backwash when your filter tells you it needs backwashing. Backwashing when the PSI has risen by 10 is also incorrect, you backwash when your pressure valve has increased 25% from it's post backwash starting position. For example, if your pressure valve reads 8 after doing a backwash, you need to backwash again when it gets to 10 (an increase of 25%). If you wait until it gets to 18 (up 10 psi) your pressure has increased over 100%! Also, there is some science that says a filter works better when it is a little dirty. The dirt in the filter is clogging up the gaps in the sand and is therefore filtering more dirt out of the water so backwashing on a regular basis may actually be counter productive. For the record, I am backwashing once every three months. Before I learnt how to maintain the pool properly I was backwashing two or three times a week because the pressure valve was going from 10 psi to 30 psi! (I had an ongoing algae problem despite the water being clear). Since October last year, my costs for looking after the pool myself is about €50 (€48 in bleach and a 2L bottle of acid). If you can a afford a pool guy great but it's perfectly possible to do it yourself.


Hi,
We would do it ourself - if we could find a definitive "idiots" guide that explains fully what to do.
We don't want to damage the filter or pumps - so are nervous that we could do things in the wrong order.
The pool maintenance guys don't show you what they are doing - to protect their businesses.
I tried looking online for guides and found the one linked above (amongst others) but you don't agree with the advice in this guide - so how do we know which guide is more "correct"?
Cheers
Steve


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## Desiato (Jun 1, 2015)

Hi Steve

Check out the Trouble Free Pool site here Pool School - TFP Home Page. It's an American site so some of the things aren't available outside of the US but the basics still apply. 

My wife's parents had a man that used to look after the pool and garden and for years I didn't know one lever from another. Now that he has passed on and she is in the late stages of Alzheimer's it was left to me to decide what to do about the pool. After watching what the pool guy was doing it became clear he was more of an odd job man than a pool professional. I took over from him and carried on doing it the way everyone seemed to be doing it (buying lots of stuff at the DIY store and randomly throwing it into the pool hoping for the best) but it just kept getting away from me. I then found the TFP site and posted about my rapidly rising PSI as I couldn't work out what was causing it. within minutes three people replied saying I had an algae problem....pah! It can't be that, my pool was clear and had been for years, what do they know! .......they were right. I followed their instructions and now when people visit they gaze into the pool and say "Now THAT's what I call a clear pool!"


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

banana plant said:


> get a man in.


Oo you are awful...but I'm beginning to like you..


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Thanks for all the useful information...
So when I vacuum to waste I should open valve marked 'limpia fondo/ boquillo and close valve marked skimmer, right?
That's what I've been doing.
I do the same when I vacuum to waste. 
Should boquillo be open or closed?
What about that pipe that goes from the pump into the ground, open or closed?
The pool looks much better this morning...


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## Desiato (Jun 1, 2015)

mrypg9 said:


> Thanks for all the useful information...
> So when I vacuum to waste I should open valve marked 'limpia fondo/ boquillo and close valve marked skimmer, right?
> That's what I've been doing.
> I do the same when I vacuum to waste.
> ...


When you vacuum you only want the water going out of the pool through your hose pipe so you close the other two that could take water from the pool (Skimmer and Limpia fondo/bottom drain). When you are vacuuming to waste, you need to close the Boquilla (return to the pool) valve as well because you are not circulating the water but draining it from the pool. If you leave the limpia fondo/bottom drain open when you are vacuuming to waste, all you are ding is draining water out of the pool which is a waste. 

If I am still following you, the pipe that goes into the ground is the waste pipe and should be left open. My waste pipe doesn't even have a valve on it because water will only go down it when I turn the handle to 'waste' so it doesn't matter if you leave it open or closed in normal operation. 

The chlorine you dumped in yesterday will be killing the algae so keep an eye on your filter pressure gauge as it will rise up quicker now. When you backwash you should see milky white water coming out of the waste, that's dead algae. You don't want to vacuum to waste if you have just dumped a load of chemicals in the pool as you will just be flushing it away, keep your pump running 24/7 and keep dumping more liquid chlorine/bleach/chlorine granules in the pool as it's better to have too much than too little. Too much is a little waste but too little won't do the job, which is more of a waste.


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## Desiato (Jun 1, 2015)

mrypg9 said:


> Thanks for all the useful information...
> *So when I vacuum to waste* I should open valve marked 'limpia fondo/ boquillo and close valve marked skimmer, right?
> That's what I've been doing.
> *I do the same when I vacuum to waste. *
> ...


Just spotted you said vacuum to waste twice.

It takes a while for the jobs of the different pipes to sink in but if you think about it this way...

There's only one pipe that takes water back to the pool so that one will always be open...until you don't want water to go back to the pool like when you want to vacuum to waste.

Three pipes take water from the pool (to the pump/filter). The Skimmer, The bottom drain and the side wall/hoover connector. Some pools don’t have a side wall vacuum hose connector; they use an adapter that fits to the skimmer so unfortunately one instruction doesn’t fit all. So of the three pipes that take water from the pool, if you lump the skimmer and bottom drain together (they are used to circulate the water when you are filtering the water normally) that just leaves the side wall connector and you only use that to vacuum. 

When I vacuum to waste I am able to close the other two pool water removers (skimmer and bottom drain) AND the return to the pool valve without overloading the pump. Sometimes the suction through the hose pipe isn’t enough for the pump and it is trying to pump more water out of it than is going into it and this is bad for your pump so you will need to open one of the valves slowly until you see the pump basket full of water again.


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## Desiato (Jun 1, 2015)

Oh booger, now I've confused myself. I said above "When you vacuum you only want the water going out of the pool through your hose pipe so you close the other two that could take water from the pool (Skimmer and *Limpia fondo*/bottom drain). I meant Sumidero/bottom drain. Limpia fondo is side wall vacuum hose connector.


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## banana plant (Mar 15, 2016)

with my previous comment in mind, read this quote "If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." - Red Adair.


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