# Urgent advice required for selling property in spain



## genericjanedoe (Jul 15, 2010)

Hi

My husband and I inherited a really large, older apartment close to the center of Palma, Mallorca a couple of years ago. The property takes up the entire floor of a four storey block, and is set in a small but beautiful and fully maintained garden with a pool and underground garage.

Unfortunately, the place although clean and structurally sound, is badly dated. It has dogdy plumbing, ancient electrics which have been partially updated and bathrooms and a kitchen which haven't been updated since they were built in the early seventies.

We were thinking for a while that we might just spend some money on redeveloping it and then either attempt to sell it or rent it out for a while. However a couple of developers have told us that this could cost anywhere between 70 - 150,000 Euros to do!

We then decided to make an offer to the family that occupies the remaining three floors, as we know that they have wanted to buy the apartment for many years. The offer was made that was higher than what we were told the apartment was worth (the value of the entire building and grounds to this family is considerable). They agreed to our price.

The problem now is that they want to stagger the payments. They want to give us a deposit, followed by a larger amount in September which in total would represent 85% of the full amount, with the remaining 15% due in January when they will sign the escritura.

This is six months down the line, and means are plans are on hold until then. We really needed all the money quickly. We have tried to minimise the remaining amount they want to give us in January but they have refused. We then asked if we could get the money this year and we would date the escritura for January, but give them the keys right now - they have refused. We know that it isn't a money concern - they are well known on the island for owning several other properties, the block is their "family seat" and they didn't blink when made our offer. 

They refuse to tell us why they are insisting on this request and we are nervous that we are being involved in some sort of tax fiddle that we aren't aware of. We have tried speaking to our solicitor but she refuses to talk to us about it on the phone.

The estate agent whom we trusted to sell this property on our behalf has now been phoning and emailing us every day for a couple of weeks putting pressure on us to sell on this family's terms and it is really stressful. He seems to think this delay is normal but even he won't tell us the full story.

Does anyone out there know why it might be so important to stagger payments in this way? Has anyone else experienced this?


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Welcome to the forum. I know very little about Spanish tax law (others on the forum do tho), altho its well documented that tax avoidance is a national sport. I assume you have an Abogado working for you on the Island? Have you asked him what he thinks???

Jo xxx


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## genericjanedoe (Jul 15, 2010)

jojo said:


> Welcome to the forum. I know very little about Spanish tax law (others on the forum do tho), altho its well documented that tax avoidance is a national sport. I assume you have an Abogado working for you on the Island? Have you asked him what he thinks???
> 
> Jo xxx


Hi

We have our solicitor, who has worked for my husband's family for many years, and she and our estate agent have been dealing directly with the family upstairs. But as I said, she refuses to talk to us over the phone about this. She appears to think that doing so will raise some sort of legal/security issue. Either that, or she doesn't want to commit herself. Either way we are in the dark.

Our family and friends all think it sounds a bit dogdy. Our estate agent is forcing home the idea that we are getting the deal of the century, that we are being foolish in delaying and he doesn't understand what the problem is. I just get the feeling we are being railroaded and we have taken to switching off the phones in case he tries ringing again.


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## Xose (Dec 10, 2008)

genericjanedoe said:


> Hi
> 
> We have our solicitor, who has worked for my husband's family for many years, and she and our estate agent have been dealing directly with the family upstairs. But as I said, she refuses to talk to us over the phone about this. She appears to think that doing so will raise some sort of legal/security issue. Either that, or she doesn't want to commit herself. Either way we are in the dark.
> 
> Our family and friends all think it sounds a bit dogdy. Our estate agent is forcing home the idea that we are getting the deal of the century, that we are being foolish in delaying and he doesn't understand what the problem is. I just get the feeling we are being railroaded and we have taken to switching off the phones in case he tries ringing again.


The whole thing sounds very strange. Particularly the issue regarding YOUR!!! solicitor. Has the solicitor not heard of the registered postal service? I respect the fact that certain things should not be discussed over the phone, but on paper, from your solicitor, is a must!!

Two things spring to mind:
1) All of this, everything you've mentioned regarding terms of payment, should be on paper to you from your solicitor as an offer.
2) The estate agent can go to hell up to the point that you are good and ready. He is, after all, the buyer's agent also - especially in these "lean" times. So be ware of their impartiality and treat them as "hostile" up to the point that the sale happens.

My thoughts on the possible "sting", not knowing anywhere near enough about Spanish law but knowing there are some ancient gems out there.... IT COULD be possible that there is a danger that having paid the X%, and then being able to demonstrate they are unable to pay the rest in a lump sum, that you are legally bound (having taken the X% already) to hand the keys over and accept a payment of 10 Cents a year or whatever for the remainder... or some such.

First of all, don't do anything regarding acceptance of part payment unless it is "Ante Notario" with the full deal clearly stated "Ante Notario".
Then, as they insist on the part payments, if you still go ahead with it, they should cover any Notario Costs over and above the one transaction fee - which would have been the norm.

Steps then: 
1) Full and detailed offer on paper and official from your solicitor, signed by them.

2) Ensure your solicitor states, on paper, to you and them as part of the sale contract that the property remains in your ownership until full and final payment is made and that there are penalties for late payments and or defaults in payments. All these have to be validated by your solicitor as legal due process and within the law.

2) Nothing regarding money gets done without it being "Ante Notario", whose documentation states that the property transfers do not take place untill full and final payment is made on or prior to the due date.


I personally would not entertain this deal as it looks more than a little dodgy - and as they say in Spain, if it smells dodgy, it is!

Good luck,
Xose


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## dunmovin (Dec 19, 2008)

it is possible that the family don't have all the funds to make a "one off" payment. They might be trying avoid lumbering you with capital gains tax, or inheritance tax, or it might be a scam that could leave you with a bill. 

Surely it would be worth one, maybe two trips to Palma and a couple of hours time for a nuetral translator to get this sorted out. The days of flights for a couple of quid might be long gone, but you can still get good deals and that small investment would be well worth it , rather than be lumbered with a property you can't sell.


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## genericjanedoe (Jul 15, 2010)

Thanks for the advice Xose, this is exactly what I am worried about. 

We are going to write an email to the estate agent (probably copy in the solicitor if we can track down her email address) and tell them we are considering withdrawing the offer. Its a bit of a gamble but I am really nervous about this deal. 

I've scoured the forums and the specialist sites trying to find out if there is something we are missing, if there is anyone else who has had to stagger payments but I cannot find anything.

The family have a reputation for slippery dealing. My husband's mother (who owned the flat previously) was forever being harrassed for extra payments for one thing or another. And for years she was being charged one percent over and above what she owed quarterly for property maintainence, which we only discovered after she died.


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## genericjanedoe (Jul 15, 2010)

dunmovin said:


> it is possible that the family don't have all the funds to make a "one off" payment. They might be trying avoid lumbering you with capital gains tax, or inheritance tax, or it might be a scam that could leave you with a bill.
> 
> Surely it would be worth one, maybe two trips to Palma and a couple of hours time for a nuetral translator to get this sorted out. The days of flights for a couple of quid might be long gone, but you can still get good deals and that small investment would be well worth it , rather than be lumbered with a property you can't sell.


Hi dunmovin

We've paid the inheritance tax already on the estate, and previous experience of the family tells me that they never do anyone a favour unless it is of benefit to them!

We've already made a couple of trips to Palma this year - one just a few weeks back to get the ball rolling on this deal. My husband is due to go again next week, but he's more nervous about this then I am. With the solicitor, the estate agent and the family piling on pressure in person, I'm worried he might crack and give in just so they'll leave him alone.

we're worried about them backing away from the deal, but we're gambling on the fact that they desperately want this flat as it means they will own the entire block. It is only one row back from the sea front, with amazing views. And with its closeness to the capital city, everyone who has seen it thinks its a developer's dream.

We'll probably try the email route outlined to Xose and buy us some thinking time between now and next week.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

genericjanedoe said:


> Hi dunmovin
> 
> We've paid the inheritance tax already on the estate, and previous experience of the family tells me that they never do anyone a favour unless it is of benefit to them!
> 
> ...


If you can afford to risk it, I would call their bluff and tell them that you're pulling out and renting it out as rehab unit for wayward British teenagers!!LOL Ok, I'm exaggerating, but I hate people who try to bully and con others and from what you've said, somewhere along the line it seems that maybe the case!

Jo xxx


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## dunmovin (Dec 19, 2008)

jojo said:


> If you can afford to risk it, I would call their bluff and tell them that you're pulling out and renting it out as rehab unit for wayward British teenagers!!LOL Ok, I'm exaggerating, but I hate people who try to bully and con others and from what you've said, somewhere along the line it seems that maybe the case!
> 
> Jo xxx


Jo I love your thinking I agree,calling the bluff would be a good idea, as if they own the rest of the building, then genericjanedoe are in the driving seat when it comes to negociations ( i.e. could sell if the deal was right but don't have to)

renting it out as rehab unit for wayward British teenagers......or an Algerian group, which supports their countrymen in Spain or just tell them nothing except that you won't be occupying the flat , however someone will.


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## genericjanedoe (Jul 15, 2010)

OK, email has been sent; lets see what happens next.....


Thanks for your advice - adds weight to what we suspect is probably the case.


I'll keep you posted!


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

genericjanedoe said:


> OK, email has been sent; lets see what happens next.....
> 
> 
> Thanks for your advice - adds weight to what we suspect is probably the case.
> ...


Please do. Fingers crossed it works out ok for you

Jo xxx


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## JBODEN (Jul 10, 2009)

Xose said:


> Ensure your solicitor states, on paper, to you and them as part of the sale contract that the property remains in your ownership until full and final payment is made and that there are penalties for late payments and or defaults in payments. All these have to be validated by your solicitor as legal due process and within the law. Xose


Also ... no work (reform etc) can be done on/in the property.


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## genericjanedoe (Jul 15, 2010)

:clap2::cheer2::dance:*RESULT!!*:clap2::cheer2::dance:

Looks like the gamble has paid off and they have given in!

Hubby answered the phone to the estate agent (which he shouldn't have done, but we'll pass on that one!) and they agreed "very reluctantly" to get the whole amount in a couple of months. 

Only hope this isn't a ploy to get hubby across to Palma next week so they can launch another bid to extend payments.

Thanks for all your help and support, it was great getting second opinions from people who couldn't be written off as just "well meaning friends and family". 

We're thinking of buying a smaller, cheeper place in France or Spain, so may well be calling on your help in another guise.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

genericjanedoe said:


> :clap2::cheer2::dance:*RESULT!!*:clap2::cheer2::dance:
> 
> Looks like the gamble has paid off and they have given in!
> 
> ...


Brilliant!!! I hope hubby holds his nerve and all ends well for you

jo xxx


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## Xose (Dec 10, 2008)

genericjanedoe said:


> :clap2::cheer2::dance:*RESULT!!*:clap2::cheer2::dance:
> 
> Looks like the gamble has paid off and they have given in!
> 
> ...



Great news. Remember though, no signing of anything untill funds have cleared and then, "Ante Notario". 

Hope everything holds to the finish.
Xose


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