# Who found real (Spanish) community, and how?



## CuriousAmericans (Mar 23, 2015)

Hello! First time poster, long time lurker. I'd much appreciate your thoughts on the following.

Thinking about taking a year in Spain with the wife and kids the year after next. Our 2 kids will then be 10 and in between 5th and 6th grades here in the US (and importantly, between schools). My wife and I both speak Spanish well. We have a LOT of family in Andalusia (on my mom's side), especially in Almeria, but I'm not sure I want to be *too* close to them, or in Almeria at all. Blessed to have rental income to support us, so fortunate not to really worry about that aspect either.

Our kids don't speak much of any Spanish unfortunately. But I'd like to try them in State school and if not then private. They're currently the very youngest in their grade. So my feeling is that if the year abroad isn't very productive academically, they'd come back and enter 6th grade and then be the biggest/oldest kids in the grade. Or, if it goes well, they return as 7th graders here and go back with their current friends. Said another way, I'm much more interested in their cultural immersion and language than I am in making sure they advance the grade academically.

The biggest issue is that my wife is very concerned about finding community, especially for the kids - friends, activities, etc. I know we have a ready-made solution with the family in Almeria, but I'm not sure that's the answer for us. There aren't kids their age in the family, and though we love many of them dearly, I think we'd rather try to find our own way.

The question is how? 

I'd love to hear from anyone who has had a successful experience integrating with the Spanish people and community. I get that we're expats at the end of the day, but I'd really like to integrate and not live for a year speaking predominantly English to other Americans or Brits. I'd love to hear from anyone who has done so, or tried and failed (why?)

Many thanks (and please don't be insulted about wanting to integrate!!)


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

CuriousAmericans said:


> Hello! First time poster, long time lurker. I'd much appreciate your thoughts on the following.
> 
> Thinking about taking a year in Spain with the wife and kids the year after next. Our 2 kids will then be 10 and in between 5th and 6th grades here in the US (and importantly, between schools). My wife and I both speak Spanish well. We have a LOT of family in Andalusia (on my mom's side), especially in Almeria, but I'm not sure I want to be *too* close to them, or in Almeria at all. Blessed to have rental income to support us, so fortunate not to really worry about that aspect either.
> 
> ...


:welcome:

well, unless you have an EU passport, the first thing you need to think about is visas

if that hurdle is overcome, the Spain is your oyster really

how old is 6th grade?


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## CuriousAmericans (Mar 23, 2015)

xabiachica said:


> :welcome:
> 
> well, unless you have an EU passport, the first thing you need to think about is visas
> 
> ...


Probably should have mentioned, we intend to pursue either a "non-lucrative" or "self-employment" visa. We seem to qualify for either though the non-lucrative seems less of an administrative burden so I lean that way.

Our kids would be 11 in 6th grade.

EDIT: BTW I love the idea of a "non-lucrative" visa... And thanks for the welcomme xabiachica!


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## AllHeart (Nov 22, 2013)

CuriousAmericans said:


> I'd love to hear from anyone who has had a successful experience integrating with the Spanish people and community. I get that we're expats at the end of the day, but I'd really like to integrate and not live for a year speaking predominantly English to other Americans or Brits. I'd love to hear from anyone who has done so, or tried and failed (why?)


Hi CuriousAmericans. Welcome to the forum. I've found a lovely Spanish community with some expats here in Malaga. It's just the right balance. How did I do it? I had a long list of criteria before I looked at the percentage of Spaniards in the city I chose, which is the bottom line in determining how many Spaniards are in the area. The % of Spaniards wasn't on the top of my list, though important. I kept asking questions here on the forum and did my own research on Google Maps, Wikipedia, city hall sites, tourist sites - anything I could get my paws on on the Internet. By the time I arrived here, I was as positive as I could be that Malaga was the sweet spot for me in Spain. And it is. 

We all have our own unique criteria of what we want in moving here and our unique priorities, so if a Spanish community is yours, then perhaps that's the best place to start - knowing the percentage of Spaniards. 

And you're right that we're always going to be expats and never totally integrated. But to me, that's the exciting journey of never arriving.


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## Chopera (Apr 22, 2013)

CuriousAmericans said:


> Hello! First time poster, long time lurker. I'd much appreciate your thoughts on the following.
> 
> ...


Your "limiting factor" is probably the school. If you want to get your kids into Spanish state school then you need to be registered with the local council ("empadronado") and that takes time, and then you need to find a school in the local area that you like, and has places available. For this reason I would lean towards living near your in-laws because they would probably have local knowledge and may be able to do some ground work before you arrive. I know from first hand experience that Spanish in-laws are a right pain in the ****, but they can be useful as well.

If you still don't like that idea then Madrid might be worth considering, as it is very Spanish while being cosmopolitan at the same time, and it offers lots of things to do (in English and Spanish) to keep your family occupied as you make the transition. It also has plenty of private schools (in English and Spanish) if the state school doesn't work out.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

I find the OP's question rather odd. Where do you find a 'real' American community, I wonder? Or a 'real' French community? Is New York the 'real' America? Or Boston? Or some small town in Iowa?
As I see it, anywhere in Spain is 'real'. But as in every other country, there will be differences from region to region, province to province, town to town. My small village is as 'real' as Benidorm or Burgos. I wonder what response you would get from Spaniards if you asked if they were living in the 'real' Spain?
It puzzles me why the word 'real' is applied to Spain and rarely if ever to other countries. Is it because there still lingers a romantic view of Spain as a land of guitars, donkeys and senoritas with roses stuck behind their ears?
The 'real' Spain is an industrial town in the north and a sleepy pueblo in the south. I live in the 'real' Spain and so does every other resident poster on this forum.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

CuriousAmericans said:


> I'd love to hear from anyone who has had a successful experience integrating with the Spanish people and community. I get that we're expats at the end of the day, but I'd really like to integrate and not live for a year speaking predominantly English to other Americans or Brits. I'd love to hear from anyone who has done so, or tried and failed (why?)
> 
> Many thanks (and please don't be insulted about wanting to integrate!!)


Wherever you choose to live, you can build your social life and make friends within the Spanish community. This is easy when you speak the language, as the Spanish are generally very open and friendly. Drink in local bars, support a Spanish soccer team, join classes and clubs that operate in Spanish.

The difficult bit is avoiding the temptation to default to mixing with other English-speakers. They can get offended if you consistently decline their invitations to socialise with them. I've seen it happen. A British couple who moved here a couple of years ago have become completely integrated with the locals, get invited to their family events and taken to places no other guiris have dared to tread. But I've heard some of the Brits here make very disparaging remarks about this. Not sure why - probably jealous! 

My own interactions outside the home are about 70% in Spanish and 30% in English. This suits me fine. There are only a dozen other native English speakers in the pueblo, we get on well but we aren't in each other's pockets.


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## Chopera (Apr 22, 2013)

mrypg9 said:


> I find the OP's question rather odd. Where do you find a 'real' American community, I wonder? Or a 'real' French community? Is New York the 'real' America? Or Boston? Or some small town in Iowa?
> As I see it, anywhere in Spain is 'real'. But as in every other country, there will be differences from region to region, province to province, town to town. My small village is as 'real' as Benidorm or Burgos. I wonder what response you would get from Spaniards if you asked if they were living in the 'real' Spain?
> It puzzles me why the word 'real' is applied to Spain and rarely if ever to other countries. Is it because there still lingers a romantic view of Spain as a land of guitars, donkeys and senoritas with roses stuck behind their ears?
> The 'real' Spain is an industrial town in the north and a sleepy pueblo in the south. I live in the 'real' Spain and so does every other resident poster on this forum.


It's a perfectly valid question - he's after somewhere he and his family can integrate with Spanish people, his kids can learn Spanish (I assume he means Castillian) and avoid the temptation to spend the whole time speaking with native English speakers. OK the thread title sounds a bit strange because on one level Spain is one big Spanish community, but on other levels it isn't. However I'd have thought the OP's post was sufficiently clear to avoid the same old debate about the semantics of "immigrant" and "expat", and what the "real Spain" is until at least until the third page 

Anyway I wouldn't recommend a village in Extremadura for example because it'll take a year to understand the local accent, same might go for parts of Andalucia, I wouldn't recommend Salamanca because it is full of American students, I wouldn't recommend anywhere in Catalonia or Valencia because the kids wouldn't be taught much in Castillian Spanish (which I assume is what he wants his kids to learn). If the OP wants to avoid Andalucia completely then really that only leaves central and some of northern Spain.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Chopera said:


> Anyway I wouldn't recommend a village in Extremadura for example because it'll take a year to understand the local accent, same might go for parts of Andalucia.


Actually if they speak American Spanish, Andalucia or Extremadura might be fine. A lot of the accent and linguistic variations are similar. And most people can drop the accent if they need to, they're not all country bumpkins.


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## labob (Dec 2, 2014)

Chopera said:


> , I wouldn't recommend anywhere in Catalonia or *Valencia* because the kids wouldn't be taught much in Castillian Spanish (which I assumeants his kids to learn). If the OP wants to avoid Andalucia completely then really that only leaves central and some of northern Spain.


Just a note about Valencia, from my students, they learn in both Castilian and Valencian, the subjects tend to swap languages each year, and people are perfectly happy to speak Castilian too.


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## Chopera (Apr 22, 2013)

Alcalaina said:


> Actually if they speak American Spanish, Andalucia or Extremadura might be fine. A lot of the accent and linguistic variations are similar. And most people can drop the accent if they need to, they're not all country bumpkins.


Having spent the last 14 years trying to decypher the Extremeño accent and castúo dialect spoken in my wife's village, I beg to differ


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## Chopera (Apr 22, 2013)

labob said:


> Just a note about Valencia, from my students, they learn in both Castilian and Valencian, the subjects tend to swap languages each year, and people are perfectly happy to speak Castilian too.


But the OP only plans on being in Spain for a year so I imagine he wants his kids to have maximum exposure to Castilian Spanish and only Castilian Spanish during that time. If they were staying for longer then of course there'd be scope to learn other languages as well.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Chopera said:


> Your "limiting factor" is probably the school. If you want to get your kids into Spanish state school then you need to be registered with the local council ("empadronado") and that takes time, and then you need to find a school in the local area that you like, and has places available. For this reason I would lean towards living near your in-laws because they would probably have local knowledge and may be able to do some ground work before you arrive. I know from first hand experience that Spanish in-laws are a right pain in the ****, but they can be useful as well.
> 
> If you still don't like that idea then Madrid might be worth considering, as it is very Spanish while being cosmopolitan at the same time, and it offers lots of things to do (in English and Spanish) to keep your family occupied as you make the transition. It also has plenty of private schools (in English and Spanish) if the state school doesn't work out.


Erm registering on the padron takes minutes. All you need is your passport and long term rental contract. 
I do agree though that school might be a problem. Not many schools would be too happy to spend money giving extra classes to help children learn Spanish and integrate, possibly disrupting the other kids, if they are only there for a year.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

expat v immigrant posts moved to http://www.expatforum.com/expats/la-tasca/208857-expat-v-immigrant.html


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## CuriousAmericans (Mar 23, 2015)

WOW. I didn't mean for my thread to be a molotov cocktail. I step away for a day and the whole place goes nuts 

I guess I missed some comments before the mod cleaned things up(?) and moved them to another thread. Many thanks Xabiachica, as the expat v immigrant debate is not one that interests me! Hopefully the mods can allow the discussion to continue (please?)

Anyway, THANK YOU to those offering constructive feedback - I deeply appreciate it.

A couple points of clarification that may help frame my question...

-My use of the term "real (Spanish) community" in the thread title was not an attempt to make a distinction between any 'real' or 'authentic' Spain vs. anything else or otherwise. It was simply meant to describe something ephemeral - a real connection with people, in this case, Spaniards, as opposed to non-Spaniards. Or at least predominantly non-Spaniards. And not because I don't care for non-Spaniards, but because I crave a deeper connection to my Spanish heritage.

-Speaking of which, the Spanish connection is on my side, not my wife's (she speaks Spanish as well however). So the family in Spain are not my in-laws, they're my direct relations (but the point raised stands - they can still be a bit too close at times!..that's why we shy away from Almeria all else equal). 

I grew up with my maternal grandparents who only spoke Spanish (Castilian - they were from Almeria, where most of my family still is). That's why I speak. If I wanted to eat as a kid I had to learn Spanish  In fact one of my favorite things while in Spain is when locals don't realize that I'm not local owed to my accent. Makes me proud 

So yes, the goal would be for the kids to learn Castilian Spanish. I guess I should've specified initially.

I think the info on % of Spaniards is a great suggestion, thanks for that. And also being aware of the relative priority of Castilian Spanish in the schools in the various locales.

Anyway, assuming we can stay on-topic I'd much appreciate hearing from anyone else regarding their experiences - successful and otherwise - at integrating.

Thanks.


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## Chopera (Apr 22, 2013)

xabiachica said:


> Erm registering on the padron takes minutes. All you need is your passport and long term rental contract.
> I do agree though that school might be a problem. Not many schools would be too happy to spend money giving extra classes to help children learn Spanish and integrate, possibly disrupting the other kids, if they are only there for a year.


I was referring to the whole process of landing in Spain, becoming resident, finding a long term rental and then registering (although I can't remember if residency was a requirement for the padron, it probably is for the long term rental though). If they choose to live near their family they can register at their address to begin with, while they look for a long term rental. Their famiily can also research local schools before they arrive. It _might_ make the process quicker.

Yes I was also concerned about schools accepting children who don't speak Spanish. It might be easier if they dropped down a year, and there might also be a few bilingual schools that are keen to bring in native English speakers - maybe more than Spanish kids with no English at all.


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## angkag (Oct 29, 2013)

We put our 8 year-old (now 9) in a local football (err, soccer) team where not a single word of English is spoken by any of the kids or the parents (my kid can't speak Spanish either, but is picking it up, especially the football terms) .

All the parents show up for the games and are as friendly as can be, and when the birthday parties come, we get invited and its as "local" as it gets. 

As for Spanish, I speak mid-level Mexican Spanish, where s's get pronounced quite strongly, but the Andalusian accent tends to skip them (a bit like Nicaraguan from memory), so I find adapting to the accent quite difficult (eg was scratching my head on moquito the other week before I realised it was mosquito). But when speaking to people with less of an accent its much easier.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Chopera said:


> I was referring to the whole process of landing in Spain, becoming resident, finding a long term rental and then registering (although I can't remember if residency was a requirement for the padron, it probably is for the long term rental though). If they choose to live near their family they can register at their address to begin with, while they look for a long term rental. Their famiily can also research local schools before they arrive. It _might_ make the process quicker.
> 
> Yes I was also concerned about schools accepting children who don't speak Spanish. It might be easier if they dropped down a year, and there might also be a few bilingual schools that are keen to bring in native English speakers - maybe more than Spanish kids with no English at all.


you don't have to be a legally registered resident to be on the padrón (nor even a legal immigrant) - & although yes, some landlords might ask for a resident certificate / residency visa before they let long term, many if not most still won't - money usually talks loudest  

if a rental was arranged before the move, registering on the padrón could be done the day after arrival!

the school would then _have to _accept the children, if there is room - but that doesn't mean that the staff would have to give any extra support - if any is actually available in these days of cuts

one school here used to (not long ago) put non-Spanish kids in the corner with puzzle or colouring books & ignore them

note I don't say 'non-Spanish speaking' - this even happened to foreign kids who had been here years & could speak Spanish, who had transferred from other regions


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## CuriousAmericans (Mar 23, 2015)

Chopera - thanks. We're blessed with super bright kids who are at the top of their class despite being the youngest by far (they have classmates more than a full year older), so I'm not sure if dropping them a grade would work, unless the specific situation revealed that they'd get more attention.

angkag - great idea about the football/soccer league. Our son plays so that would work. Our daughter is into ballet and horseback riding so presumably we could seek that out as well.

Xabiachica - that sounds so mean! That's why I said state or private initially. If that happened in a state school and we couldn't fix it then I'd move them to a private bilingual school asap.

We do have lots of family there as I said so we could definitely use local addresses for everything needed, and lean on family as several have mentioned, to facilitate the school situation in particular. Hmm.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

CuriousAmericans said:


> Chopera - thanks. We're blessed with super bright kids who are at the top of their class despite being the youngest by far (they have classmates more than a full year older), so I'm not sure if dropping them a grade would work, unless the specific situation revealed that they'd get more attention.
> 
> angkag - great idea about the football/soccer league. Our son plays so that would work. Our daughter is into ballet and horseback riding so presumably we could seek that out as well.
> 
> ...


it was state school - & it _has _been fixed from what I hear


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## mickbcn (Feb 4, 2013)

Chopera said:


> It's a perfectly valid question - he's after somewhere he and his family can integrate with Spanish people, his kids can learn Spanish (I assume he means Castillian) and avoid the temptation to spend the whole time speaking with native English speakers. OK the thread title sounds a bit strange because on one level Spain is one big Spanish community, but on other levels it isn't. However I'd have thought the OP's post was sufficiently clear to avoid the same old debate about the semantics of "immigrant" and "expat", and what the "real Spain" is until at least until the third page
> 
> Anyway I wouldn't recommend a village in Extremadura for example because it'll take a year to understand the local accent, same might go for parts of Andalucia, I wouldn't recommend Salamanca because it is full of American students, I wouldn't recommend anywhere in Catalonia or Valencia because the kids wouldn't be taught much in Castillian Spanish (which I assume is what he wants his kids to learn). If the OP wants to avoid Andalucia completely then really that only leaves central and some of northern Spain.


The level of knowledge of the spanish by the children in Catalonia when finish their classes is equal or better than the children of other regions of Spain (spanish government source)maybe with a little catalan accent but the words are clear without contamination of dialects.... 
Their spanish is far better than my english...hehe.


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## CuriousAmericans (Mar 23, 2015)

Thanks mickbcn! Your English is fine 

Interesting about your impression of the children and their proficiency in Spanish as Valencia is one of the areas I've pondered...

Oh and btw chopera - don't need to avoid Andalusia entirely. Family is concentrated in/around Almeria. But we love Granada for example.

Ronda is another town we've spent time in and loved.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Hi and welcome. We have been without power for most of the day so I'm late in coming onto the forum today. We live in a village (pop. <5,000) in Jaén province (part of Andalucía) and although my wife (a.k.a. SWMBO and Colombian) and mother-in-law ('La suegra' and Texan) both speak Spanish fluently, mine is somewhat limited, but I manage. There are about 7 or 8 English speaking families in the village, but we don't mix and our social groups usually include our neighbours and other Spanish who are all very friendly and helpful.

SWMBO and the suegra both teach English to all ages from 4 up to adult and this has helped us to 'integrate' and be accepted. When we first arrived 6½ years ago, I made a point of speaking to everybody I met in the street "Hola, bueno día" (using the local dialect) and SWMBO has had many comments that we have been welcomed because we make the effort to be friendly and we speak. Sometimes, I encounter people who I guess might be from northern European counties (Dutch, German, British, etc) but I still greet them in Spanish, even if I could use their own language. I find it quite amusing to see a look of [almost] terror on their faces as they hurry by with their heads averted (extremely bad mannered) because they are afraid of getting drawn into a conversation in Spanish which they don't even attempt to begin to speak or understand.


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## Chopera (Apr 22, 2013)

mickbcn said:


> The level of knowledge of the spanish by the children in Catalonia when finish their classes is equal or better than the children of other regions of Spain (spanish government source)maybe with a little catalan accent but the words are clear without contamination of dialects....
> Their spanish is far better than my english...hehe.


I wasn't doubting the ability of the Catalan children to speak Spanish - it's just that in Catalonia the OP's kids won't get as much exposure to it in the year they're over, and I get the impression that's one of his priorities. If they were over for longer then of course they could fit more languages in.


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## Chopera (Apr 22, 2013)

CuriousAmericans said:


> ...
> 
> Oh and btw chopera - don't need to avoid Andalusia entirely. Family is concentrated in/around Almeria. But we love Granada for example.
> 
> ...


Yes there's plenty of places to escape the family without leaving Andalucia


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## CuriousAmericans (Mar 23, 2015)

Thanks everyone. Btw what's a SWMBO and an OH? I see those acronyms quite a bit on the forum (I apologize for the newb questions, especially if it's covered in an FAQ)


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

CuriousAmericans said:


> Thanks everyone. Btw what's a SWMBO and an OH? I see those acronyms quite a bit on the forum (I apologize for the newb questions, especially if it's covered in an FAQ)


She Who Must Be Obeyed (wife) and Other Half (partner...) 

Jo xxx


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## angkag (Oct 29, 2013)

By the way, one of the reasons we sided with coming to Cadiz was that in initial discussions with a football team in Valencia we were told that the kids speak primarily Valenciano on the pitch and we felt the kids would settle in quicker if there was only one new language to focus on for the first year or two. Maybe the Valencia side later once they can distinguish what is and what isn't Castillian (although some of the accents around here its hard to tell its Spanish, feels like the Spanish equivalent of Glaswegian at times).


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

CuriousAmericans said:


> Thanks everyone. Btw what's a SWMBO and an OH? I see those acronyms quite a bit on the forum (I apologize for the newb questions, especially if it's covered in an FAQ)


'SWMBO' is She Who Must Be Obeyed from the the stories of Rumpole of the Bailey by John Mortimer and refers to one's female spouse.

Synonymously, 'OH' is the Other Half which can be be applied to either gender


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## CuriousAmericans (Mar 23, 2015)

Thanks for the clarifications. Love it


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## bob_bob (Jan 5, 2011)

xabiachica said:


> Erm registering on the padron takes minutes. All you need is your passport and long term rental contract.
> I do agree though that school might be a problem. Not many schools would be too happy to spend money giving extra classes to help children learn Spanish and integrate, possibly disrupting the other kids, if they are only there for a year.


A few years ago our local NHS trust recruited @ 60 Filipino nurses to work here in Wales. Overnight our local primary School had new pupils who spoke little or no English. This put a lot of stress on the teaching staff and cost the School £30k a year or more in hiring teaching assistants.

IMHO you should pay up and put your children in an international School.


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## angkag (Oct 29, 2013)

If only for a year, it also depends which Spanish school they go to. Our 7 year-old goes to a local school and as 25% of the kids are not Spanish (a minority of whom are English, but oddly English seems to be the common language with the non Spanish), his progress is slowed because he can hang out with the other English speaking kids in the playground. 

I''m hoping he is absorbing more than he lets on, only time will tell, but a year may not be enough for them to pick it up if they have a similar opt-out in the playground. The 9 year-old goes to an international school and his Spanish is improving faster than the younger one, which I can only guess is due to the football where he can't get by with speaking any English.


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## CuriousAmericans (Mar 23, 2015)

angkag said:


> If only for a year, it also depends which Spanish school they go to. Our 7 year-old goes to a local school and as 25% of the kids are not Spanish (a minority of whom are English, but oddly English seems to be the common language with the non Spanish), his progress is slowed because he can hang out with the other English speaking kids in the playground.
> 
> I''m hoping he is absorbing more than he lets on, only time will tell, but a year may not be enough for them to pick it up if they have a similar opt-out in the playground. The 9 year-old goes to an international school and his Spanish is improving faster than the younger one, which I can only guess is due to the football where he can't get by with speaking any English.


Interesting! Which raises another, likely loaded, question. Here in the US it is extremely easy to compare public school districts. Everything you can think of - from spending per student to test scores to parents educational achievement to family earning level to (eventual) college placement...all that data is readily available here and people definitely make decisions about where to live using this data. In other words, people move to where the better public schools are.

Does that exist in Spain?


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

angkag said:


> If only for a year, it also depends which Spanish school they go to. Our 7 year-old goes to a local school and as 25% of the kids are not Spanish (a minority of whom are English, but oddly English seems to be the common language with the non Spanish), his progress is slowed because he can hang out with the other English speaking kids in the playground.
> 
> I''m hoping he is absorbing more than he lets on, only time will tell, but a year may not be enough for them to pick it up if they have a similar opt-out in the playground. The 9 year-old goes to an international school and his Spanish is improving faster than the younger one, which I can only guess is due to the football where he can't get by with speaking any English.



My two children both learnt infinitely more Spanish at their international school than my daughter did at her state school. The international school also taught them about Spanish culture and history and I felt they both benefited more

Jo xxx


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## CuriousAmericans (Mar 23, 2015)

Hmm. Maybe a year in International School to learn Spanish (oh the irony) then a 2nd year in public school to better integrate 

Having a hard enough time convincing SWMBO to do one year!


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## kalohi (May 6, 2012)

CuriousAmericans said:


> Interesting! Which raises another, likely loaded, question. Here in the US it is extremely easy to compare public school districts. Everything you can think of - from spending per student to test scores to parents educational achievement to family earning level to (eventual) college placement...all that data is readily available here and people definitely make decisions about where to live using this data. In other words, people move to where the better public schools are.
> 
> *Does that exist in Spain?*


In a word - no.

About all you might find are the results of the university entrance exams (selectividad, or PAU). But you'd have to search high and low even for that. 

I think you can assume that the schools in wealthier neighborhoods have parents with a higher earning level and educational achievement. As for spending per student, much of the funding for state schools is provided by the state and therefore is the same in all state schools. The teachers, for instance, aren't hired by individual schools but by the state and they're sent where needed. They're also moved from school to school quite frequently. So you will generally find equally good teachers in all schools. And testing - what testing? At the moment the only universal exams are the ones that university bound students take after they finish high school. 

A while back somebody here on the forum posted a link to a blog about an American family that came to live in Spain for a year. I don't know if you've seen it but in case you haven't here it is again. It seems to me that that family did what you're interested in doing, so you'd probably find it interesting reading. It's a very extensive blog with lots of info.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

angkag said:


> By the way, one of the reasons we sided with coming to Cadiz was that in initial discussions with a football team in Valencia we were told that the kids speak primarily Valenciano on the pitch and we felt the kids would settle in quicker if there was only one new language to focus on for the first year or two. Maybe the Valencia side later once they can distinguish what is and what isn't Castillian (although some of the accents around here its hard to tell its Spanish, feels like the Spanish equivalent of Glaswegian at times).


Gaditano is one of the thickest accents in Spain - even folks from Madrid can't understand them! Well done for trying, it's taken me seven years.


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## angkag (Oct 29, 2013)

We looked for school ratings (along the lines of those that can be found in the UK and the US) and didn't find anything worthwhile.

The best information we could find was probably in the forums, but that mainly on the international school. But even then, schools can change quite quickly depending on the change in staff at the top (on a side note, the eldest went to the Canadian International School in HK last year, which was top notch. Last August a new headmaster arrived and the school has totally imploded - story easily found on the net - but the point is reviews of the school from last year now mean nothing, so things can change).

Much comes from word of mouth where, for example, everyone says how good the 7 year-old's school is. But that attracts a lot of foreigners to send their kids there, hence the big international mix. 

I've heard in passing that some local schools in areas with big concentrations of English and/or other nationalities have some specific problems with older kids arriving without local language knowledge and effectively tuning out of the educational process, and various problems associated with that.

Meantime schools on the East Coast teaching in both Castillian and local languages might be a consideration. The languages taught and spoken in each area are easily found with an internet search.


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## CuriousAmericans (Mar 23, 2015)

Many thanks kola - I had in the interim found that blog and am reading through it.

And thanks again angkag - very helpful as well.


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## Chopera (Apr 22, 2013)

The "points systems" used to get into primary schools varies between region. In Madrid they changed it a few years ago and now there's very little advantage to be gained from living next to a school (you'll get an extra half point for living in the same barrio - but that doesn't count for much).

Prior to that people tried all sorts of tricks to get their kids into the "better" schools, such as renting a room next to the school and registering on the padron there for a few months, bribing doctors to say the kid needed special dietary requirements, getting divorced even (single parent families got extra points as well). The situation got so ridiculous that the Madrid council pretty much scrapped it.

Madrid does carry out tests for children in the final years of primary school (when they're about 11 years old) and those results are made public. At first people made a fuss over them but that seems to have died down.

Also the results for the "selectividad" exams for getting into university are made public - but many private schools take this data so seriously that any pupils likely to fail aren't even entered into the exam, so they can claim 100% success rates!

Also the "El Mundo" newspaper publishes atop 100 ranking of schools around Spain:

Los 100 mejores colegios de Espa?a | EL MUNDO

(but this appears highly subjective and limited to private schools)

Finally there is a Spanish forum "www.enfemenino.com" which has a section on schools, but most threads discussing schools appear to be excessively trolled.


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## CuriousAmericans (Mar 23, 2015)

Wow Chopera - that's amazing, thanks so much. I'll look into these things, taken with the apparently appropriate grain of salt!


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