# Staying in Spain with Irish Passport for More than 90 days under 6 months



## conildlf

Are their any things one needs to do to register to visit Spain with Irish Passport for more than 90 days but under 6 months?

Seems very clear cut on under 90 days and over 183 days in a year period.

Is there anyone you need to register with?

Thank you.


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## yevlondon

EU citizens staying in Spain for longer than 3 months must register and get Certificado UE


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## Pipeman

I think that there is historical precedence for staying in Spain for more than 90 days and then returning to their home country (thus not complying with the law requiring anyone residing in Spain for 90 days to register as residents).

From 2021 I suspect more diligence will be placed on visitors (even those from Ireland) to comply, which means you'd need to register and deregister when you leave.


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## kaipa

Over 90 days you should register under EU law. The 6 months you might be confusing with tax residency. Over 6 months of the Spanish tax year you are technically liable for tax in spain.


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## conildlf

yevlondon said:


> EU citizens staying in Spain for longer than 3 months must register and get Certificado UE


Have you gone thru this process?

Is it difficult?


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## Miss Jones11

Pipeman said:


> I think that there is historical precedence for staying in Spain for more than 90 days and then returning to their home country (thus not complying with the law requiring anyone residing in Spain for 90 days to register as residents).
> 
> From 2021 I suspect more diligence will be placed on visitors (even those from Ireland) to comply, which means you'd need to register and deregister when you leave.


Can you explain why more diligence will be placed on EU citizens (even those from Ireland) from 2021. Do you have a link to a government website or reliable source stating this?


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## stevesainty

First the facts, European citizens who visit other European countries where they are not RESIDENT, are only, officially, allowed to stay for 90 days without registering. This registration, to all intents and purposes, is to apply to be resident in that particular European country.

Historically, people from other European countries have over wintered in Spain for anything up to just short of the 6 months where they would be become liable to Spanish tax. The Spanish authorities, rightly or wrongly, have turned a blind eye to this practice in the past and everyone was happy with their lot.

Now that the UK has voted to leave the EU, there will be no freedom of movement for them from January 2021, and it is assumed that their will be greater scrutiny of their passports at ports and airports to ensure that they do not overstay their allowance, under the withdrawal agreement, of 90 days in any 180 days in any of the Schengen countries. The inference you can draw is that other British Isles countries, specifically Eire, may well get caught up in this intensified scrutiny of passports and time spent in Spain.

It is technically possible to register as a temporary resident after 90 days, and de-register before you hit the magic 183 days where you would be liable for Spanish tax. However, I doubt that many people do it, and the Spanish authorities have nothing to gain by co-operating, and so, in reality it is not feasible.

The "swallows" will have to bite the bullet and obey the Schengen rules, until something better is put into place.


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## kaipa

Why would people from Ireland get caught up in this scrutiny?. For a start they will enter through a different channel and usually all that is involved is an identity check ( now mostly automatic)


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## conildlf

stevesainty said:


> *It is technically possible to register as a temporary resident after 90 days, and de-register before you hit the magic 183 days* where you would be liable for Spanish tax. However, I doubt that many people do it, and the Spanish authorities have nothing to gain by co-operating, and so, in reality it is not feasible.


Is this historically what most Irish citizens have done to stay over 3 months and under 183 days?


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## Megsmum

kaipa said:


> Why would people from Ireland get caught up in this scrutiny?. For a start they will enter through a different channel and usually all that is involved is an identity check ( now mostly automatic)


I wondered that, I freely travel now and will in the future on my Irish passport, Eire has ****** all to do with the U.K.?


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## conildlf

stevesainty said:


> First the facts, European citizens who visit other European countries where they are not RESIDENT, are only, officially, allowed to stay for 90 days without registering.


Can an Irish Passport holder stay 90 days in a Schengen Country then 90 days in another Schengen Country?

ie 90 days in Spain then 90 days in France, then 90 days in Spain then 90 days in France?

(Sorry for my questions, I just got my Irish Passport and want to be clear on what I am able to do.)


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## stevesainty

As an Irish citizen, not British, you are still a citizen of Europe and able to enjoy free movement. As long as you spend your 91st night in another country, you can return the very next day. The 90 day rule is not cumulative in this respect, what you need to avoid is spending 183 days in any one calendar year in another EU country as you may me perceived as tax resident.


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## Megsmum

stevesainty said:


> First the facts, European citizens who visit other European countries where they are not RESIDENT, are only, officially, allowed to stay for 90 days without registering. This registration, to all intents and purposes, is to apply to be resident in that particular European country.
> 
> Historically, people from other European countries have over wintered in Spain for anything up to just short of the 6 months where they would be become liable to Spanish tax. The Spanish authorities, rightly or wrongly, have turned a blind eye to this practice in the past and everyone was happy with their lot.
> 
> Now that the UK has voted to leave the EU, there will be no freedom of movement for them from January 2021, and it is assumed that their will be greater scrutiny of their passports at ports and airports to ensure that they do not overstay their allowance, under the withdrawal agreement, of 90 days in any 180 days in any of the Schengen countries. The inference you can draw is that other British Isles countries, specifically Eire, may well get caught up in this intensified scrutiny of passports and time spent in Spain.
> 
> It is technically possible to register as a temporary resident after 90 days, and de-register before you hit the magic 183 days where you would be liable for Spanish tax. However, I doubt that many people do it, and the Spanish authorities have nothing to gain by co-operating, and so, in reality it is not feasible.
> 
> The "swallows" will have to bite the bullet and obey the Schengen rules, until something better is put into place.





stevesainty said:


> As an Irish citizen, not British, you are still a citizen of Europe and able to enjoy free movement. As long as you spend your 91st night in another country, you can return the very next day. The 90 day rule is not cumulative in this respect, what you need to avoid is spending 183 days in any one calendar year in another EU country as you may me perceived as tax resident.


Sorry Steve, c. An you clarify that statement please? I am presuming you actually mean Northern Ireland which is not eire and would only apply to holders of British passport?


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## stevesainty

Megsmum said:


> Sorry Steve, c. An you clarify that statement please? I am presuming you actually man Northern Ireland which is not eire and would only apply to holders of British passport?


conildlf 

Can an Irish Passport holder stay 90 days in a Schengen Country then 90 days in another Schengen Country?

ie 90 days in Spain then 90 days in France, then 90 days in Spain then 90 days in France?

(Sorry for my questions, I just got my Irish Passport and want to be clear on what I am able to do.)

I was replying to a specific request from an Irish passport holder. As far as I know, if you are a citizen of Eire, you have an Irish passport, and as such are still a European citizen with all your rights of freedom of movement. If you are a Northern Ireland
citizen, IE British, you are no longer a European citizen and your freedom of movement will cease on 1 January 2021.

I believe that if you are an Northern Ireland citizen, you have the right to apply for an Irish, rather than a British passport, but would that entail you becoming a citizen of Eire?


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## 95995

stevesainty said:


> conildlf
> 
> Can an Irish Passport holder stay 90 days in a Schengen Country then 90 days in another Schengen Country?
> 
> ie 90 days in Spain then 90 days in France, then 90 days in Spain then 90 days in France?
> 
> (Sorry for my questions, I just got my Irish Passport and want to be clear on what I am able to do.)
> 
> I was replying to a specific request from an Irish passport holder. As far as I know, if you are a citizen of Eire, you have an Irish passport, and as such are still a European citizen with all your rights of freedom of movement. If you are a Northern Ireland
> citizen, IE British, you are no longer a European citizen and your freedom of movement will cease on 1 January 2021.
> 
> *I believe that if you are an Northern Ireland citizen, you have the right to apply for an Irish, rather than a British passport, but would that entail you becoming a citizen of Eire?*


It would mean that you would still be a EU citizen after the end of the transition period. EU citizenship has nothing to do with your country of residence.


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## stevesainty

EverHopeful said:


> It would mean that you would still be a EU citizen after the end of the transition period. EU citizenship has nothing to do with your country of residence.


I think that my replies have been confused along the way. If you are a British citizen, no matter where you live, you will no longer be a European citizen, apart from geographically, after 31 December 2020. If you are a citizen of Eire, you will still be a European citizen after this date.

The main point I was trying to get across was that even as a citizen of Eire, you cannot legally spend more than 90 consecutive days in Spain, and never could, once Spain joined EU. As a European citizen though, you could spend 90 days in Spain, nip over the border to France, Gibralter or Portugal for one night and then return to Spain for a further 90 days without breaking the registration rule. You would, however need to keep a weather eye on the fiscal residency rule of 183 days in any 1 calendar year.


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## NickZ

EU law doesn't require anything. It allows countries to ask people to register but it doesn't force the countries. The same EU law imposes relatively minor max penalties for not registering.

Registering your residence abroad - Your Europe


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## Megsmum

stevesainty said:


> conildlf
> 
> Can an Irish Passport holder stay 90 days in a Schengen Country then 90 days in another Schengen Country?
> 
> ie 90 days in Spain then 90 days in France, then 90 days in Spain then 90 days in France?
> 
> (Sorry for my questions, I just got my Irish Passport and want to be clear on what I am able to do.)
> 
> I was replying to a specific request from an Irish passport holder. As far as I know, if you are a citizen of Eire, you have an Irish passport, and as such are still a European citizen with all your rights of freedom of movement. If you are a Northern Ireland
> citizen, IE British, you are no longer a European citizen and your freedom of movement will cease on 1 January 2021.
> 
> I believe that if you are an Northern Ireland citizen, you have the right to apply for an Irish, rather than a British passport, but would that entail you becoming a citizen of Eire?


Yes it does, and you have dual citizenships both British and Irish, as I have.


I think the confusion lay with this statement 

The inference you can draw is that other British Isles countries, specifically Eire, may well get caught up in this intensified scrutiny of passports and time spent in Spain.


I will have FOM as I have now with my Irish passport as opposed to my British passport, there will be no reason. The get caught up in intensified scrutiny of passports for the Irish , French or Germans because the U.K. left. That’s the only statement I had an issue with, Eire is NOT a British isle country


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## stevesainty

NickZ said:


> EU law doesn't require anything. It allows countries to ask people to register but it doesn't force the countries. The same EU law imposes relatively minor max penalties for not registering.
> 
> https://europa.eu/youreurope/citize...ormalities/registering-residence/index_en.htm


OK, a bit hairsplitting, but you are correct. However, if you register in Spain, you are a resident, no ifs or buts. You may not yet be a fiscal resident, although if Spain is your centre of economic activity, you could already be a fiscal resident. 

The whole gist of this thread though, is to answer the question of those who have habitually spent more than 90 days in Spain without registering and have done so without let or hindrance. Once Britain finally leave Eu on 31 December this year, there may be more scrutiny of entry and exit, and, IMHO, those people will not have an unhindered stay of more than 90 days.


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## stevesainty

Megsmum said:


> [/COLOR]
> 
> Yes it does, and you have dual citizenships both British and Irish, as I have.
> 
> 
> I think the confusion lay with this statement
> 
> The inference you can draw is that other British Isles countries, specifically Eire, may well get caught up in this intensified scrutiny of passports and time spent in Spain.
> 
> 
> I will have FOM as I have now with my Irish passport as opposed to my British passport, there will be no reason. The get caught up in intensified scrutiny of passports for the Irish , French or Germans because the U.K. left. That’s the only statement I had an issue with, Eire is NOT a British isle country


Actually Eire is part of the British Isles, along with all the other islands around Britain. It is not part of Great Britain, but that point may be lost on border officials, which was the point I was trying to make, although a little cack-handed.


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## Megsmum

stevesainty said:


> Actually Eire is part of the British Isles, along with all the other islands around Britain. It is not part of Great Britain, but that point may be lost on border officials, which was the point I was trying to make, although a little cack-handed.


Geographically yes, but that’s as far as the attachment goes! 😂 

I don’t think border officials will have any trouble recognising the difference between a British passport holder and an Irish passport holder. 
Thanks for taking the time to respond. I thought you knew something I didn’t , and I couldn’t have that LOL.


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## NickZ

stevesainty;15150574
The whole gist of this thread though said:


> The thread is titled Irish passport  not British passport
> 
> After Jan 1st the big issue will be the need for a visa. Schengen countries don't normally hand out four month visas. Four months is just too short.


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## stevesainty

NickZ said:


> The thread is titled Irish passport  not British passport
> 
> After Jan 1st the big issue will be the need for a visa. Schengen countries don't normally hand out four month visas. Four months is just too short.


I'm sorry, but you have lost me, the thread is entitled 

Staying in Spain with Irish Passport for More than 90 days under 6 months

Nether UK nor Eire citizens will need a visa to visit Spain, and where was 4 months ever mentioned in this thread?


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## NickZ

stevesainty said:


> I'm sorry, but you have lost me, the thread is entitled
> 
> Staying in Spain with Irish Passport for More than 90 days under 6 months
> 
> Nether UK nor Eire citizens will need a visa to visit Spain, and where was 4 months ever mentioned in this thread?


Four months is more than ninety days but less than six months 

Will UK citizens be allowed to stay more than ninety days without a visa? I thought not


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## stevesainty

NickZ said:


> stevesainty said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm sorry, but you have lost me, the thread is entitled
> 
> Staying in Spain with Irish Passport for More than 90 days under 6 months
> 
> Nether UK nor Eire citizens will need a visa to visit Spain, and where was 4 months ever mentioned in this thread?
> 
> 
> 
> Four months is more than ninety days but less than six months
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Will UK citizens be allowed to stay more than ninety days without a visa? I thought not
Click to expand...

UK citizens do not need a visa and they can only stay for 90 days. You seem to think that if they applied for a visa and have it granted, they could stay for more than 90 days, which is not the case.


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## NickZ

stevesainty said:


> UK citizens do not need a visa and they can only stay for 90 days. You seem to think that if they applied for a visa and have it granted, they could stay for more than 90 days, which is not the case.


Of course if they get a visa they can stay . Why else would they be given a visa?


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## MataMata

You would only apply for a visa if you were coming to reside in Spain.

As I understand it Ireland does not discriminate between NI and the Republic and both are entitled to Irish passports.

As pointed out though the 90 day rule applies regardless of which passport you hold, the advantage of holding both Irish and UK passports is that you could in theory spend 90 days on one then leave the country and immediately reenter on the other effectively meaning that you could stay both indefinitely and legally!


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## Megsmum

Just to clarify

Under the good Friday agreement ANYONE born on the Island of Ireland be it north or south is entitled to CITIZENSHIP and a PASSPORT of both nations. 
IF your one or both of your parents were born on the Island of Ireland then you are equally entitled. If one of your grandparents were born on the Ireland of Ireland it’s also possible but a slightly more complex route. 


There will be no discrimination or disruption if using your Irish passport to enter Europe post Brexit, Eire, may geographically be within the British Isles, I’m not sure anyone living there would say they are part of the British Isles and I’m 100% sure if at any stage Irish Citizens we’re randomly checked because they border the United Kingdom and float about the same area, the Irish Taoiseach would be heading , at great speed , to the EU to find out why!


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## kaipa

The visa would only be for Brits who wanted to reside in Spain. If you are not going to reside you just come as usual and presumably get your passport stamped. 90 days will be the legal time period for your stay but a brit will not be able to re enter until a further 90 days have passed. A non resident EU person will not recieve a stamp and could just cross the border and return the same day. No one cares about EU citizens really hence the reason that many people just come and go as they please. That will continue but the Brexit loving majority of Brits decided that this was a perk worth losing in order to gain the nebulous, intangible concept of sovereignty which means that instead of a French man telling them to do something they dont like now an English man will tell them. At the end of the day not a lot of difference.


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## NickZ

MataMata said:


> You would only apply for a visa if you were coming to reside in Spain.
> 
> 
> 
> As pointed out though the 90 day rule applies regardless of which passport you hold, the advantage of holding both Irish and UK passports is that you could in theory spend 90 days on one then leave the country and immediately reenter on the other effectively meaning that you could stay both indefinitely and legally!


You need a visa if you want to exceed the tourism 90 day limit. Doesn't matter the reason. Moving,study or just a long vacation. It's no different than the current situation for people from North America.

Legally you're supposed to register if you're going to exceed ninety days but the fact the government can't do much to people makes it highly unlikely they will chase after EU nationals. 

If we're really going to be picky the right to free movement applies to

Work

Study 

Pensioners

Somebody on a long vacation isn't really covered. I guess a person could claim to be inactive.


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## xabiaxica

Pipeman said:


> I think that there is historical precedence for staying in Spain for more than 90 days and then returning to their home country (thus not complying with the law requiring anyone residing in Spain for 90 days to register as residents).
> 
> From 2021 I suspect more diligence will be placed on visitors (even those from Ireland) to comply, which means you'd need to register and deregister when you leave.





Miss Jones11 said:


> Can you explain why more diligence will be placed on EU citizens (even those from Ireland) from 2021. Do you have a link to a government website or reliable source stating this?


_*''I suspect'' *_means that the member is *giving an opinion.*


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## xabiaxica

stevesainty said:


> OK, a bit hairsplitting, but you are correct. However, if you register in Spain, you are a resident, no ifs or buts. You may not yet be a fiscal resident, although if Spain is your centre of economic activity, you could already be a fiscal resident.
> 
> The whole gist of this thread though, is to answer the question of those who have habitually spent more than 90 days in Spain without registering and have done so without let or hindrance. Once Britain finally leave Eu on 31 December this year, there may be more scrutiny of entry and exit, and, IMHO, those people will not have an unhindered stay of more than 90 days.


What's more - *the Spanish govt words it as a requirement* for an EU citizen to register if planning to stay more than 90 days. 

Although we all know plenty of people who regularly spend most or even all of their time here, but never register nor submit tax returns. 


The Spanish govt is almost certainly aware of this, (they can hardly not be, since it's general knowledge) & also that some Brits are registering with no intention of actually moving here for several years, & imo will be scrutinising British passports very carefully from the beginning of next year. 

It isn't yet known if a British 'snowbird' staying three months before the end of this year & then another 3 months from Jan 1 2021 will run into problems. Strictly speaking they should have registered as resident. 


Neither is it known if other EU & specifically Irish passport hoders will get caught up in this. Since they will be passing through a different gate at airports I suspect not - but who knows?


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## conildlf

MataMata said:


> As pointed out though the 90 day rule applies regardless of which passport you hold, the advantage of holding both Irish and UK passports is that you could in theory spend 90 days on one then leave the country and immediately reenter on the other effectively meaning that you could stay both indefinitely and legally!


Interesting.

Does anyone know of anyone doing this in practice?


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## moonman

Having read all of the posts on this thread , as an Irish citizen i have a few observations. I don't know one Irish person who would agree the Republic of Ireland is part of The British Isles I know the way it looks on a map but as i said i do not or ever heard an Irish person referring us as a member of the British and I am in my 70s. The next point is I have an apartment here in Torreblanca, Fuengirola for 30 year and every winter up until the pandemic hit us i know lots of British people who winter here some from as early as October and up to and including mid April and the only thing that bothers most of them is the length of travel insurance they have as it varies according to age some have had to return home and then come back a few days later. Finally if the Spanish authorities are going to check the passports the difference between both passports is very obvious and from March this year a new UK passport is a different colour .


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## paulhe

moonman said:


> Having read all of the posts on this thread , as an Irish citizen i have a few observations. I don't know one Irish person who would agree the Republic of Ireland is part of The British Isles I know the way it looks on a map but as i said i do not or ever heard an Irish person referring us as a member of the British and I am in my 70s. The next point is I have an apartment here in Torreblanca, Fuengirola for 30 year and every winter up until the pandemic hit us i know lots of British people who winter here some from as early as October and up to and including mid April and the only thing that bothers most of them is the length of travel insurance they have as it varies according to age some have had to return home and then come back a few days later. Finally if the Spanish authorities are going to check the passports the difference between both passports is very obvious and from March this year a new UK passport is a different colour .



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Isles_naming_dispute

There is a naming dispute apparently .


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## Megsmum

moonman said:


> Having read all of the posts on this thread , as an Irish citizen i have a few observations. I don't know one Irish person who would agree the Republic of Ireland is part of The British Isles I know the way it looks on a map but as i said i do not or ever heard an Irish person referring us as a member of the British and I am in my 70s. The next point is I have an apartment here in Torreblanca, Fuengirola for 30 year and every winter up until the pandemic hit us i know lots of British people who winter here some from as early as October and up to and including mid April and the only thing that bothers most of them is the length of travel insurance they have as it varies according to age some have had to return home and then come back a few days later. Finally if the Spanish authorities are going to check the passports the difference between both passports is very obvious and from March this year a new UK passport is a different colour .





paulhe said:


> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Isles_naming_dispute
> 
> There is a naming dispute apparently .


Not if you are Irish


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## stevesainty

I blame my geography lessons in the 1960's, sorry if I stirred up a hornets nest.


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## Megsmum

stevesainty said:


> I blame my geography lessons in the 1960's, sorry if I stirred up a hornets nest.


Having just got home from hospital and feeling pretty crap. That actually made me laugh out loud. :clap2::clap2::clap2:

Still like you


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## moonman

Megsmum said:


> Having just got home from hospital and feeling pretty crap. That actually made me laugh out loud. :clap2::clap2::clap2:
> 
> Still like you


I hope things get better with your health . I read a couple of weeks ago that people can put stuff on Wikipedia and therefore all that's on it is not always 100% fact. The way things are at the moment on the costa del sol the Spanish government will be paying people to holiday here and spend their euros, since the pandemic booking a table at restaurants seems to be a thing of the past.


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## Roy C

I think Spanish officials have a different attitude towards the Irish. I have a really seen a change in their attitude towards me when after suspecting I'm a brit they find out I'm Irish. So I doubt there'll be any hassle for people carrying an Irish passport in 2021 no more than for a French or Italian citizen.


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## Paul Nicholls

yevlondon said:


> EU citizens staying in Spain for longer than 3 months must register and get Certificado UE


Hello, I have just been granted Irish citizenship and am about to receive my passport. My partner is a UK passport holder but I read that she can apply for residence. Can she apply at the police station at the same time as me? We both have S1 certificates (both from the UK)


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## fortrose52

Previous posters are correct. The passport will be a different colour. My passport has always had a harp and is printed in English and Erse. I have lived in Scotland for many years now. I am in my late sixties and have never heard an Irish person referring to themselves as from the British Isles, always Southern Ireland


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## fortrose52

Not sure about your partner's residency question Paul. But it may be answered in other posts


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## Roy C

The Irish Passport is for those born on the island of Ireland (not just the republic) and their blood relatives. Wifes , husbands etc who are not Irish throgh blood need to live in Ireland for a period of time. As for the S1 i think you needed to be resident in Spain to qualify before 2021 so you may need health insurance for healthcare.


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## Alcalaina

As mentioned earlier, an Irish citizen (or any other EU citizen) enjoys freedom of movement and while Spanish law requires registration after 90 days this is really aimed at people intending to live here in the longer term. There are no sanctions for overstaying, but in the unlikely event of being questioned about it all you would need to do is show evidence of your planned return to Ireland and proof that your established residence is in that country.


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## Roy C

I think you can be an Irish/EU citizen but you don't need to return to Ireland necessarily, i think you just would need show evidence of intention to leave Spain.


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## Joey Testa

Is there actually a legal penalty for EU citizens who do not register?


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## Overandout

Joey Testa said:


> Is there actually a legal penalty for EU citizens who do not register?


Yes, Article 15 of the RD 240/2007 establishes the administrative sanction for not registering as the same as that applicable to Spanish nationals who do not comply with the obligations to obtain and maintan the DNI.

Not sure what the fine is currently though.

Edit, apparently the fine is minimum 100€, maximum 600€. You're unlikely to get the maximum fine the first time they catch you I assume.


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## Joey Testa

Given that Eire is not part of Schengen, will UK and Eire citizens really be in different queues at passport control?


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## Joppa

Joey Testa said:


> Given that Eire is not part of Schengen, will UK and Eire citizens really be in different queues at passport control?


The queues are divided between EU (UE) and non-EU citizens.


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## Alcalaina

Joey Testa said:


> Given that Eire is not part of Schengen, will UK and Eire citizens really be in different queues at passport control?


Which border are you talking about?

Entering Spain, Irish citizens will be in the EU queue (no passport stamp) and Brits in the non-EU queue (passports need to be stamped).


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## Joey Testa

Alcalaina said:


> Which border are you talking about?
> 
> Entering Spain, Irish citizens will be in the EU queue (no passport stamp) and Brits in the non-EU queue (passports need to be stamped).


I meant at airports. I did not know that there are separate EU and non EU queues. Arriving from a Schengen country, there is no passport control at all.


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## alpinist

Joey Testa said:


> I meant at airports. I did not know that there are separate EU and non EU queues. Arriving from a Schengen country, there is no passport control at all.


Many British members won't appreciate this because they are very unlikely to have flown internally within Schengen countries. It only dawned on me when flying from Spain to Switzerland a few years ago even though I've crossed many European land borders without showing a passport and should have known it would be the same.

If the Brexit _process _restores a land border in Ireland they may as well sod the Common Travel Area and sign up to Schengen, indeed Ireland already joined the Schengen police database this year. But yes, if a Dublin flight arrives in Madrid tomorrow then the Irish and all the Spanish schoolkids need to get in one line and the errant Brits in another (the Spanish have to queue too because it's where the flight comes from, not your passport). In practice, I'm dubious if smaller airports without multiple flights arriving concurrently will bother to open a non-EU line for flights where few Brits, Americans, etc are likely to be on board. So it'll either be an interminable wait while they get someone to come and open a second passport booth or going through the EU line anyway (at the end?).


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## vianina

_Si_ said:


> Many British members won't appreciate this because they are very unlikely to have flown internally within Schengen countries. It only dawned on me when flying from Spain to Switzerland a few years ago even though I've crossed many European land borders without showing a passport and should have known it would be the same.
> 
> If the Brexit _process _restores a land border in Ireland they may as well sod the Common Travel Area and sign up to Schengen, indeed Ireland already joined the Schengen police database this year. But yes, if a Dublin flight arrives in Madrid tomorrow then the Irish and all the Spanish schoolkids need to get in one line and the errant Brits in another (the Spanish have to queue too because it's where the flight comes from, not your passport). In practice, I'm dubious if smaller airports without multiple flights arriving concurrently will bother to open a non-EU line for flights where few Brits, Americans, etc are likely to be on board. So it'll either be an interminable wait while they get someone to come and open a second passport booth or going through the EU line anyway (at the end?).


As you say, what matters is where the plane comes from, not the nationalities of those on board. So, if a smaller airport only has one flight at a time, it will either check passports (possibly in one line) if the flight is from outside Schengen, or opera-te no checks when the flight is from Schengen.


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## Smugzersmyth

If you are born on the island of Ireland no matter North or South of Ireland you can avail of an Irish passport. Under the 1998 Good Friday Agreement. You can also have both a UK (British) passport and a Irish passport as a dual citizen if born in Northern Ireland. So as a person born on Northern Ireland you have the best of both.

Can an Irish Passport holder stay 90 days in a Schengen Country then 90 days in another Schengen Country?

ie 90 days in Spain then 90 days in France, then 90 days in Spain then 90 days in France?

(Sorry for my questions, I just got my Irish Passport and want to be clear on what I am able to do.)

I was replying to a specific request from an Irish passport holder. As far as I know, if you are a citizen of Eire, you have an Irish passport, and as such are still a European citizen with all your rights of freedom of movement. If you are a Northern Ireland
citizen, IE British, you are no longer a European citizen and your freedom of movement will cease on 1 January 2021.

I believe that if you are an Northern Ireland citizen, you have the right to apply for an Irish, rather than a British passport, but would that entail you becoming a citizen of Eire?
[/QUOTE]


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## Roy C

The Irish passport does not recognise the border Somebody who lives in NI can have dual citizenship and is treated like any other Irish citizen with an Irish passport. An added benefit ( if you see it that way) is you can also have a British passport.


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## Smugzersmyth

Smugzersmyth said:


> If you are born on the island of Ireland no matter North or South of Ireland you can avail of an Irish passport. Under the 1998 Good Friday Agreement. You can also have both a UK (British) passport and a Irish passport as a dual citizen if born in Northern Ireland. So as a person born on Northern Ireland you have the best of both.
> 
> Can an Irish Passport holder stay 90 days in a Schengen Country then 90 days in another Schengen Country?
> 
> ie 90 days in Spain then 90 days in France, then 90 days in Spain then 90 days in France?
> 
> (Sorry for my questions, I just got my Irish Passport and want to be clear on what I am able to do.)
> 
> I was replying to a specific request from an Irish passport holder. As far as I know, if you are a citizen of Eire, you have an Irish passport, and as such are still a European citizen with all your rights of freedom of movement. If you are a Northern Ireland
> citizen, IE British, you are no longer a European citizen and your freedom of movement will cease on 1 January 2021.
> 
> I believe that if you are an Northern Ireland citizen, you have the right to apply for an Irish, rather than a British passport, but would that entail you becoming a citizen of Eire?
> 
> As for the above statement it is partly true. It is not the case that you can apply for an Irish passport 'Rather' than a British passport you can have both if you are born in Northern Ireland under the 1998 Good Friday agreement and you are a dual citizen of Ireland and the UK if you have both.


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## Smugzersmyth

Just to make it a bit more clear, as I stated in the above having both passports for the UK and Ireland allows you all the rights of a British citizen in the UK. And an Irish citizen in the Island of Ireland weather Northern Ireland or Southern Ireland Also known as the Republic of Ireland or Eire. So by having the Irish passport you remain a European citizen. And have freedom of movement under the Good Friday Agreement.


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## Roy C

Smugzersmyth said:


> Just to make it a bit more clear, as I stated in the above having both passports for the UK and Ireland allows you all the rights of a British citizen in the UK. And an Irish citizen in the Island of Ireland weather Northern Ireland or Southern Ireland Also known as the Republic of Ireland or Eire. So by having the Irish passport you remain a European citizen. And have freedom of movement under the Good Friday Agreement.


Being from NI you could have an Irish passport prior to the GFA.


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## suki123

stevesainty said:


> I think that my replies have been confused along the way. If you are a British citizen, no matter where you live, you will no longer be a European citizen, apart from geographically, after 31 December 2020. If you are a citizen of Eire, you will still be a European citizen after this date.
> 
> The main point I was trying to get across was that even as a citizen of Eire, you cannot legally spend more than 90 consecutive days in Spain, and never could, once Spain joined EU. As a European citizen though, you could spend 90 days in Spain, nip over the border to France, Gibralter or Portugal for one night and then return to Spain for a further 90 days without breaking the registration rule. You would, however need to keep a weather eye on the fiscal residency rule of 183 days in any 1 calendar year.


How do they know if I cross the border by car if there is no border within the Schengen? Who checks that?


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## stevesainty

suki123 said:


> How do they know if I cross the border by car if there is no border within the Schengen? Who checks that?


They don´t but the days will be counted at your entry and exit of the Schengen area, so if you are a UK citizen they will know if you have spent more than 90 days. If you are a European citizen, then you more or less police yourself as you did before Brexit.


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## rorocbob

stevesainty said:


> Actually Eire is part of the British Isles, along with all the other islands around Britain. It is not part of Great Britain, but that point may be lost on border officials, which was the point I was trying to make, although a little cack-handed.


 Actually Eire is not part of the British Isles, never has been, not in the eyes of the Irish, French, Spanish nor most English, not even the Romans or Saxons if you want to go back that far, I am from London, and everyone I Know has never associated it has such, your quoting English propaganda written by English universities for political gain.


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## dancingspider

Nail on head, rorocbob!


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## MataMata

And whatever you do NOT sign on a padron as that is a legal statement that you reside in Spain. 

Don't confuse a town Hall permitting you to sign on as it being legal or correct.


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## Roy C

suki123 said:


> How do they know if I cross the border by car if there is no border within the Schengen? Who checks that?


You're stamped entering the Schengen and leaving, the 90 days is for the whole of the Schengen not just one country. If you have are an EU citizen (Irish, Spanish etc) then you can move around the Schengen area staying in each country up to 90 days but brits and other non EU country can't unless there is an agreement in place.


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## stevie.whitts

suki123 said:


> How do they know if I cross the border by car if there is no border within the Schengen? Who checks that?


I just drive from Helsinki, Finland - Torrevieja, Spain. Travelled via boat from Helsinki - Tallinn, Estonia. Only had to show my boarding pass for the ferry. I drove off the ferry and drove down Estonia, into Latvia - no border checking, just a huge dilapidated building and a dirt cheap alcohol supermarket. I drove through Latvia into Lithuania. again, no border check, just an old building and alcohol supermarket. Stayed the night in what must have been a former KGB training facility now passing as a hotel. Showed my Finnish residency permit as proof. Drove from Kaunas, Lithuania into Poland - same story regarding border crossing. and the same gain when entering Germany. Only difference at the German border was LOTS of trucks resting up and more of a police presence but no one stopped for checking. Drove all through Germany and into France, Only reason I knew i was in France was because the signage had changed to French. Drove through France and into Spain, again, no checking, no real building this time. Arrived at my destination 4 days later having shown my passport ZERO times and my identity card once (hotel checkin).


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## raykyte11

stevie.whitts said:


> I just drive from Helsinki, Finland - Torrevieja, Spain. Travelled via boat from Helsinki - Tallinn, Estonia. Only had to show my boarding pass for the ferry. I drove off the ferry and drove down Estonia, into Latvia - no border checking, just a huge dilapidated building and a dirt cheap alcohol supermarket. I drove through Latvia into Lithuania. again, no border check, just an old building and alcohol supermarket. Stayed the night in what must have been a former KGB training facility now passing as a hotel. Showed my Finnish residency permit as proof. Drove from Kaunas, Lithuania into Poland - same story regarding border crossing. and the same gain when entering Germany. Only difference at the German border was LOTS of trucks resting up and more of a police presence but no one stopped for checking. Drove all through Germany and into France, Only reason I knew i was in France was because the signage had changed to French. Drove through France and into Spain, again, no checking, no real building this time. Arrived at my destination 4 days later having shown my passport ZERO times and my identity card once (hotel checkin).


 I recently asked this question and this is the answer I got back, is it correct? Please find below the reply to your enquiry. Please note that the advice given by Your Europe Advice is an independent advice and cannot be considered to be the opinion of the European Commission, of any other EU institution or its staff nor will this advice be binding upon the European Commission, any other EU or national institution. Dear Sir, Thank you for getting in touch with Your Europe Advice. Your question relates to the rights you can claim on the basis of your married relationship with your spouse. Your wife is an Irish citizen and you are a UK citizen. Please note that you do not require a visa to travel to Spain. In the light of which, we understand that you would be staying in Spain for more than 90 days in a 180 period. When merely travelling to an EU member state with your wife, you are entitled to remain in Spain or France for a period of up to 90 days, without any further formality than producing your passport and proof that you are travelling with your wife (who is an Irish citizen) (ie your passport, your spouse's passport, your marriage certificate, and evidence to show that you are travelling together). However, where you remain in the member state in question for more than 90 days, both you and your spouse are obliged to register as residents in Spain. Article 7, 8, 9 and 10 Directive 2004-38 as implemented under Spanish law by virtue of Real Decreto 240/07. To summarize: Rights to Free Movement as the family member of an EU citizen: A. Rights of admission. As the married partner of an Irish citizen, you derive automatic rights of admission and residence in Spain (and also France) upon production of the proof listed above. B. Rights of residence: If you are remain in Spain for more than 90 days, you are under the obligation to register as residents in the member state in question, which you would do on the grounds that you are the spouse of an Irish citizen who is resident in the same member state. You would have to establish the following conditions: That you are married, that your wife is an Irish citizen with an Irish passport and Should you feel the need for an immigration adviser, please follow the link to contact an Immigration lawyer, which you may find through the following: Find an immigration adviser I hope this serves to clarify the issues raised in your query and thank you again for getting in touch with Your Europe Advice. Yours truly. Your Europe Advice. To help us improve our services, we would invite you to complete this short online survey. To submit another enquiry, please visit Your Europe Advice, but do not reply to this e-mail. Your original enquiry was: I am a british with a British passport, my wife is Irish with an Irish passport. I understand that I can travel with her to Spain through France for a 6 months holiday in any one year provided I register in Spain within 3 months of our stay, what I would like is a conformation statement that I can get translated into French and Spanish to show customs if they don't understand all the rules. is there any other informaition I need to know to travel to these two countries? Many thanks, Ray Yours sincerely, Your Europe Advice


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## snikpoh

raykyte11 said:


> I recently asked this question and this is the answer I got back, is it correct? Please find below the reply to your enquiry. Please note that the advice given by Your Europe Advice is an independent advice and cannot be considered to be the opinion of the European Commission, of any other EU institution or its staff nor will this advice be binding upon the European Commission, any other EU or national institution. Dear Sir, Thank you for getting in touch with Your Europe Advice. Your question relates to the rights you can claim on the basis of your married relationship with your spouse. Your wife is an Irish citizen and you are a UK citizen. Please note that you do not require a visa to travel to Spain. In the light of which, we understand that you would be staying in Spain for more than 90 days in a 180 period. When merely travelling to an EU member state with your wife, you are entitled to remain in Spain or France for a period of up to 90 days, without any further formality than producing your passport and proof that you are travelling with your wife (who is an Irish citizen) (ie your passport, your spouse's passport, your marriage certificate, and evidence to show that you are travelling together). However, where you remain in the member state in question for more than 90 days, both you and your spouse are obliged to register as residents in Spain. Article 7, 8, 9 and 10 Directive 2004-38 as implemented under Spanish law by virtue of Real Decreto 240/07. To summarize: Rights to Free Movement as the family member of an EU citizen: A. Rights of admission. As the married partner of an Irish citizen, you derive automatic rights of admission and residence in Spain (and also France) upon production of the proof listed above. B. Rights of residence: If you are remain in Spain for more than 90 days, you are under the obligation to register as residents in the member state in question, which you would do on the grounds that you are the spouse of an Irish citizen who is resident in the same member state. You would have to establish the following conditions: That you are married, that your wife is an Irish citizen with an Irish passport and Should you feel the need for an immigration adviser, please follow the link to contact an Immigration lawyer, which you may find through the following: Find an immigration adviser I hope this serves to clarify the issues raised in your query and thank you again for getting in touch with Your Europe Advice. Yours truly. Your Europe Advice. To help us improve our services, we would invite you to complete this short online survey. To submit another enquiry, please visit Your Europe Advice, but do not reply to this e-mail. Your original enquiry was: I am a british with a British passport, my wife is Irish with an Irish passport. I understand that I can travel with her to Spain through France for a 6 months holiday in any one year provided I register in Spain within 3 months of our stay, what I would like is a conformation statement that I can get translated into French and Spanish to show customs if they don't understand all the rules. is there any other informaition I need to know to travel to these two countries? Many thanks, Ray Yours sincerely, Your Europe Advice


Yes


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## Dave20_10

stevesainty said:


> As an Irish citizen, not British, you are still a citizen of Europe and able to enjoy free movement. As long as you spend your 91st night in another country, you can return the very next day. The 90 day rule is not cumulative in this respect, what you need to avoid is spending 183 days in any one calendar year in another EU country as you may me perceived as tax resident.


Hi, I have a Irish passport could I spend my 91st night in Gibraltar then come back into Spain for another 3 months.


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## tebo53

Dave20_10 said:


> Hi, I have a Irish passport could I spend my 91st night in Gibraltar then come back into Spain for another 3 months.


Yes that would be ideal 
Steve


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