# Migrating to the Mediterranean makes Britons unhappier, says research



## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

More food for thought for those thinking of taking the plunge...
Migrating to the Mediterranean makes Britons unhappier, says research â€” University of Leicester


> Dr David Bartram, of the University of Leicester’s Department of Sociology, said that migrants from the UK and five other northern European countries who went to Spain, Portugal, Greece and Cyprus were less happy than people who stayed behind.





> ...it was the fact of having migrated that made the respondent less happy, by about 0.3 of a point on the ten-point scale on average (3 in 100), compared with those who stayed behind. For British migrants the gap was larger, with migrants 0.4 (4 in 100) of a point less happy than the UK stayers.


But why??


> Ex-pats more unhappy than people in the UK | ESRC | Economic and Social Research Council
> "Migration itself can be disruptive to other dimensions of people's lives – social ties, sense of belonging – possibly with consequences for their happiness," said Dr Bartram to The Independent.
> British migrants sometimes found that their qualifications were not recognised and they were forced to take jobs with a lower social status than expected, he suggested. They might feel excluded from local community networks and workplace banter because of a British reluctance to learn foreign languages and integrate.


----------



## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Pesky Wesky said:


> More food for thought for those thinking of taking the plunge...
> Migrating to the Mediterranean makes Britons unhappier, says research — University of Leicester
> But why??


good to see that a presumably expert says the same as we say here


----------



## LDN2ESP (Jul 24, 2015)

Pesky Wesky said:


> More food for thought for those thinking of taking the plunge...
> Migrating to the Mediterranean makes Britons unhappier, says research â€” University of Leicester
> But why??


Interesting, albeit, a touch out of date? The video on YT is from 2011. With regard to the UK vs ESP, just wait to the enormous uncontrolled cuts (UK) that are on the way, now that the Liberal party is a thing of the past, both in coalition and as an important political party. 

I would suggest that anybody in the survey who purchased a home in Spain anytime after say 2007? Would be wringing their hands with their bad financial mistake. If they had kept their wedge and spent now they could have probably purchased a Spanish home twice the size of that of their original purchase. If that had been me I would take a sleeping bag to my local Bodega and ask for a cannula feed directly from a vat of the strongest red wine ...


----------



## chica escocesa (Jul 23, 2012)

More doom and gloom! A lot of this is linked to a lack of language ability and an inability to integrate, as well as the job situation. Not a good idea to move to Spain if you need a job. Good idea to speak the lingo!


----------



## The Skipper (Nov 26, 2014)

LDN2ESP said:


> Interesting, albeit, a touch out of date? The video on YT is from 2011. With regard to the UK vs ESP, just wait to the enormous uncontrolled cuts (UK) that are on the way, now that the Liberal party is a thing of the past, both in coalition and as an important political party.
> 
> I would suggest that anybody in the survey who purchased a home in Spain anytime after say 2007? Would be wringing their hands with their bad financial mistake. If they had kept their wedge and spent now they could have probably purchased a Spanish home twice the size of that of their original purchase. If that had been me I would take a sleeping bag to my local Bodega and ask for a cannula feed directly from a vat of the strongest red wine ...


We bought our house in Spain in March 2008 and, yes, it´s probably worth considerably less now than we paid for it, even though we negotiated €40,000 off the asking price. On the other hand we sold our UK house at the end of 2007, at the top of the market, and after the crash in the UK the value dropped by GBP 50,000 (probably now fully recovered). Do we have any regrets? No! You can´t go through life wondering what might have been if we hadn´t done this or that. We´re perfectly happy with our new life in Spain and that´s all that matters. And the value of our house on paper is irrelevant because we have no intention of selling it!


----------



## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

LDN2ESP said:


> Interesting, albeit, a touch out of date? The video on YT is from 2011. With regard to the UK vs ESP, just wait to the enormous uncontrolled cuts (UK) that are on the way, now that the Liberal party is a thing of the past, both in coalition and as an important political party.
> 
> I would suggest that anybody in the survey who purchased a home in Spain anytime after say 2007? Would be wringing their hands with their bad financial mistake. If they had kept their wedge and spent now they could have probably purchased a Spanish home twice the size of that of their original purchase. If that had been me I would take a sleeping bag to my local Bodega and ask for a cannula feed directly from a vat of the strongest red wine ...


It has been discussed on here a few times the idea of do you buy somewhere to live as an investment or not. I suspect for most people it's a bit of both and no one likes to lose money, but if at the end of it I've got the house that I want I'm OK


----------



## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Whenever you see this sort of research you have to question what measures they use to define happiness, and the sample size. 



> Dr Bartram analysed survey data on 265 migrants from Belgium, Switzerland, Germany, Netherlands, France and 73 from the UK who resettled in the Mediterranean countries.
> 
> When asked how happy they were on a scale of 0-10, the migrants scored 7.3 on average, compared with the average of 7.5 for 56,000 people studied who remained in the northern countries.


The number of migrants sampled is very small, and the difference between their perceived happiness and the larger non-migrant sample is also very small. It could just be that people who are generally not satisfied with their lives are more likely to move elsewhere in search of an improvement - but as pointed out on other threads, you take your baggage with you.


----------



## 90199 (Mar 21, 2010)

I was unaware that Portugal was in the Mediterranean


----------



## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

DR Bartrum is an idiot. He takes an extremely small sample of people and exterpolates the results of his "survey" (note that we aren't given a copy of the questions asked) to apply to all the Brits who now live in all the countries bordering the Mediterranean. Of course the moronic media, ever on the lookout for something to spice up their content, pick it up and run with it as though it is an established fact.

Absolute b*ll*cks.


----------



## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

baldilocks said:


> DR Bartrum is an idiot. He takes an extremely small sample of people and exterpolates the results of his "survey" (note that we aren't given a copy of the questions asked) to apply to all the Brits who now live in all the countries bordering the Mediterranean. Of course the moronic media, ever on the lookout for something to spice up their content, pick it up and run with it as though it is an established fact.
> 
> Absolute b*ll*cks.


hang on a minute.... maybe he's over-generalising by saying that 'all' are unhappy, but the reasons he gives are almost word for word what you post whenever talking about those who 'fail'


----------



## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

baldilocks said:


> DR Bartrum is an idiot. He takes an extremely small sample of people and exterpolates the results of his "survey" (note that we aren't given a copy of the questions asked) to apply to all the Brits who now live in all the countries bordering the Mediterranean. Of course the moronic media, ever on the lookout for something to spice up their content, pick it up and run with it as though it is an established fact.
> 
> Absolute b*ll*cks.


I don't disagree that the sample is small (always seems to be the case, doesn't it) and that we don't know the questions asked, but this is published on the university website, not the usual "moronic media"


----------



## chica escocesa (Jul 23, 2012)

I do wonder how/why some of the people posting on here are living in Spain - when it's so hard to learn the language, makes you miserable, is so hard to adapt to, people don't queue, you have to ask questions, it gets so cold and wet in winter, the weather is extreme, internet is so patchy, there are no jobs (true), healthcare is precarious, there is no welfare system....etc etc. I have formed my own theory - it's so good there you don't want us wannabes coming over and ruining it for you!! Lol!


----------



## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

chica escocesa said:


> I do wonder how/why some of the people posting on here are living in Spain - when it's so hard to learn the language, makes you miserable, is so hard to adapt to, people don't queue, you have to ask questions, it gets so cold and wet in winter, the weather is extreme, internet is so patchy, there are no jobs (true), healthcare is precarious, there is no welfare system....etc etc. I have formed my own theory - it's so good there you don't want us wannabes coming over and ruining it for you!! Lol!


most of us with staying power adapt & adopt the local ways 

& love it despite its many & varied faults 


I _need _the wannabes - teaching them Spanish pays my bills


----------



## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

xabiachica said:


> hang on a minute.... maybe he's over-generalising by saying that 'all' are unhappy, but the reasons he gives are almost word for word what you post whenever talking about those who 'fail'


But he asked just 328 people who had migrated versus 56,000 who hadn't - hardly comparing like with like. If he asked 73 in some Brit-zone on the costas or around areas where there are threats of demolition, etc. he is going to get distorted figures. Most of the regulars on the forum are now old hands and are quite content so our answers would not figure in his calculations or may even be erased as being aberrant data. One also has to question what was the objective of the survey - we have all encountered surveys where the result is predetermined, they just have to find sufficient people to provide responses to fit in with those results, but not too many respondents so that the result becomes influenced too much by reality.

Anyone recall the survey, not so long ago, that concluded that the majority of Brits were thinking of returning to UK. It was carried out by a financial company that specialised in money transfers. The official conclusion/headline was that "More than half of the Britons in Spain are thinking of returning to UK." 

Fact: omitted from the conclusion were the words "who responded" which should have appeared after the word "Spain". 
Fact: only 220 people were asked. 
Fact: only 42 people responded. 
Fact: of the 42 who responded only 22 said they were thinking of going back to UK.
Only 22 out of 220 (10%) does not a headline make! Surveys say what the surveyor want them to say.

This was picked up and published by several UK dailies.


----------



## Mushu7 (Jul 17, 2015)

Over 75% of research and statistics are made up! Never believe them.


Sometimes on the spot ^^^^^^^^^


----------



## Chica22 (Feb 26, 2010)

Whilst the statistics in the survey do seem flawed, I do think that there may be some truth in the fact that many migrants, from whichever country, to another country, will naturally draw comparisons. 

Whereas people who have never lived in another country, perhaps have nothing to compare with their lives, with the exception of a few weeks holiday.

OH lived in the Uk for over 40 years, and every year, a few weeks before we were due to come on holiday to Spain he would start to complain about the UK... the state of the roads, the quality of the food, the weather etc. etc.

After a week in Spain, he would then complain about Spain,' the weather is too hot, its too noisy etc. etc'

Strangely, I never compare one with the other, and accept nowhere is 'utopia' but going by many posts on the forum there are many people who do.


----------



## oronero (Aug 24, 2012)

LDN2ESP said:


> Interesting, albeit, a touch out of date?
> 
> I would suggest that anybody in the survey who purchased a home in Spain anytime after say 2007? Would be wringing their hands with their bad financial mistake. If they had kept their wedge and spent now *they could have probably purchased a Spanish home twice the size of that of their original purchase*.


...and twice the amount to clean and maintain.


----------



## LDN2ESP (Jul 24, 2015)

I think most of the expats on this forum wouldn't want to return anytime quick to the UK? I maybe wrong, but if you've been away for more than 5 years you would be surprised at the change in the UK. City life has changed for the worse, unless you're affluent enough and run for the opulent areas within town or suburbs and beyond when the going gets tuff. The rest of us have to make do with stringent council expenditure cuts, a decrease in services and the ever increasing pressure of lack of affordable homes. 

That is depressing, but like others, I got on the ladder in the latter part of the 80s, so in truth I shouldn't give a toss, but I do ... My kids are stuffed. One of my friend's very intelligent 20 something son is already raking in £30+k per year for a wage. His prospects of getting a mortgage in and around London are Zero. He has been told that his wage would need to be around £50k before he is considered, unless he gets together with another reasonably well paid person ...

So, if you're financially able, why hang on in the UK on the basis of your property being your main investment? It's all about timing, there are turbulent undercurrents still reverberating around the EU, in theory we could be on this forum this time next year and the EMU maybe a thing of the past, with a return to the Peseta.


----------



## oronero (Aug 24, 2012)

The Skipper said:


> We bought our house in Spain in March 2008 and, yes, it´s probably worth considerably less now than we paid for it, even though we negotiated €40,000 off the asking price. On the other hand we sold our UK house at the end of 2007, at the top of the market, and after the crash in the UK the value dropped by GBP 50,000 (probably now fully recovered). Do we have any regrets? No! You can´t go through life wondering what might have been if we hadn´t done this or that. We´re perfectly happy with our new life in Spain and that´s all that matters. And the value of our house on paper is irrelevant because we have no intention of selling it!


To those that wait for the 'perfect time' to do things, good luck! 

Often time and life passes by before the stars do align, sometimes it never happens.


----------



## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

chica escocesa said:


> I do wonder how/why some of the people posting on here are living in Spain - when it's so hard to learn the language, makes you miserable, is so hard to adapt to, people don't queue, you have to ask questions, it gets so cold and wet in winter, the weather is extreme, internet is so patchy, there are no jobs (true), healthcare is precarious, there is no welfare system....etc etc. I have formed my own theory - it's so good there you don't want us wannabes coming over and ruining it for you!! Lol!


I think you may be thinking of my posts on another thread when you mention this.
Just in case you were, I'd like to point out I wasn't complaining about it, just talking about it.


----------



## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

baldilocks said:


> But he asked just 328 people who had migrated versus 56,000 who hadn't - hardly comparing like with like. If he asked 73 in some Brit-zone on the costas or around areas where there are threats of demolition, etc. he is going to get distorted figures. Most of the regulars on the forum are now old hands and are quite content so our answers would not figure in his calculations or may even be erased as being aberrant data. One also has to question what was the objective of the survey - we have all encountered surveys where the result is predetermined, they just have to find sufficient people to provide responses to fit in with those results, but not too many respondents so that the result becomes influenced too much by reality.
> 
> Anyone recall the survey, not so long ago, that concluded that the majority of Brits were thinking of returning to UK. It was carried out by a financial company that specialised in money transfers. The official conclusion/headline was that "More than half of the Britons in Spain are thinking of returning to UK."
> 
> ...


I'm not disputing that the sample was small

I just wondered how you could dismiss what he says as b·$%/( " , when the reasons he gives agree with so much of what you say?


----------



## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

xabiachica said:


> I'm not disputing that the sample was small
> 
> I just wondered how you could dismiss what he says as b·$%/( " , when the reasons he gives agree with so much of what you say?


I don't agree with one iota of it! Quite how you can come to your conclusion beats me.


----------



## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

How on earth do you measure 'happiness'?
I'm happy when I'm listening to Wagner, watching 'Allo Allo' and arguing politics. In fact, I can think of few things that bring me more happiness.
Some people might avoid all three of those like the plague.


----------



## Simon22 (May 22, 2015)

I was more into Stephanie Powers but yes 'Allo 'Allo is great!


----------



## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Simon22 said:


> yes 'Allo 'Allo is great!


You are a man of taste and refinement.....


----------



## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

I liked the Goons, Journey into Space, The Navy Lark, ITMA and the original Hitch-Hikers' Guide to the Galaxy - but they were all steam radio!


----------



## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

baldilocks said:


> I liked the Goons, Journey into Space, The Navy Lark, ITMA and the original Hitch-Hikers' Guide to the Galaxy - but they were all steam radio!


Ah yes...memories of childhood...Do you remember 'PC 49' and 'Riders of the Range'?
My granddad had lived in America as a young man and loved real country music. He used to listen to 'Gran' Ole Oprey' and 'Louisiana Hayride' via AFN from Germany. We even heard Elvis Presley before he became well-known in the UK. We had an enormous old radio that had a nice lace cloth with a small potted plant on top of it and the front was a work of art, all different designs like sun rays..
It was a bit of a nuisance, though, having to put more coal on when the sound cut out....


----------



## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

mrypg9 said:


> Ah yes...memories of childhood...Do you remember 'PC 49' and 'Riders of the Range'?
> My granddad had lived in America as a young man and loved real country music. He used to listen to 'Gran' Ole Oprey' and 'Louisiana Hayride' via AFN from Germany. We even heard Elvis Presley before he became well-known in the UK. We had an enormous old radio that had a nice lace cloth with a small potted plant on top of it and the front was a work of art, all different designs like sun rays..
> It was a bit of a nuisance, though, having to put more coal on when the sound cut out....


PC49 = Archibald Berkeley Willoughby played by Brian Reece. Toytown with Larry the lamb, Dennis the dachshund, Mr Growser the policeman and Mr Maaaaaayor. Dennis McCullogh (Uncle Mac), The Light programme didn't start until 9 o'clock and the first programme was Housewives Choice 




Then it was the god-slot "Five to Ten" I can't remember hwt came on at ten o'clock but at half past it was Music while you work:




at 11 it was the morning story followed by Mrs Dale's Diary (repeat from the previous afternoon "I've been rather worried about Jim, lately..., 
I can't remember what came next but at 12 it was the programme for farmers followed by Workers' Playtime or Midday Music Hall...


----------



## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Our radio was bigger than that...ya ya de ya ya
I seem to remember it being really huge...but I was really small. I seem to remember it had what looked like a tapestry bit on the front and it had enormous knobs and the dial, I remember to this day, said 'Hilversum', for some reason.
My gran used to switch on the 'wireless' just before our dinner (lunch for posher people) to hear the Twelve O'clock News and I remember the tail end of 'Workers Playtime' and sometimes 'Wilfred Pickles' ('Give him the money, Mabel').
I know it's a stale, trite thing to say, but I bet I got more real joy from listening with my Mum, Gran and Granddad to those old broadcasts than any kid today listening to Kanye West or some other dreadful emitter of noise on the IPod.
I actually had to sit down and listen to these programmes - no talking or other activity allowed.


----------



## Isobella (Oct 16, 2014)

LDN2ESP said:


> I think most of the expats on this forum wouldn't want to return anytime quick to the UK? I maybe wrong, but if you've been away for more than 5 years you would be surprised at the change in the UK. City life has changed for the worse, unless you're affluent enough and run for the opulent areas within town or suburbs and beyond when the going gets tuff. The rest of us have to make do with stringent council expenditure cuts, a decrease in services and the ever increasing pressure of lack of affordable homes.
> 
> That is depressing, but like others, I got on the ladder in the latter part of the 80s, so in truth I shouldn't give a toss, but I do ... My kids are stuffed. One of my friend's very intelligent 20 something son is already raking in £30+k per year for a wage. His prospects of getting a mortgage in and around London are Zero. He has been told that his wage would need to be around £50k before he is considered, unless he gets together with another reasonably well paid person ...
> 
> So, if you're financially able, why hang on in the UK on the basis of your property being your main investment? It's all about timing, there are turbulent undercurrents still reverberating around the EU, in theory we could be on this forum this time next year and the EMU maybe a thing of the past, with a return to the Peseta.


You may well be correct but how much better would they be in Spain with reference to affordable homes, council service cuts?


----------



## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

mrypg9 said:


> Our radio was bigger than that...ya ya de ya ya
> I seem to remember it being really huge...but I was really small. I seem to remember it had what looked like a tapestry bit on the front and it had enormous knobs and the dial, I remember to this day, said 'Hilversum', for some reason.
> My gran used to switch on the 'wireless' just before our dinner (lunch for posher people) to hear the Twelve O'clock News and I remember the tail end of 'Workers Playtime' and sometimes 'Wilfred Pickles' ('Give him the money, Mabel').
> I know it's a stale, trite thing to say, but I bet I got more real joy from listening with my Mum, Gran and Granddad to those old broadcasts than any kid today listening to Kanye West or some other dreadful emitter of noise on the IPod.
> I actually had to sit down and listen to these programmes - no talking or other activity allowed.


There were two Hilversum stations, Hilversum 1 and Hilversum 2 they were the Dutch National Radio and were at, respectively, 300m and 400m on the dial especially if it was a Phillips Radio. "Hier ist Hilversum een"... Excuse my Dutch.


----------



## ccm47 (Oct 15, 2013)

Re: No talking or other activity allowed. How I wish!
I was NEVER allowed to just sit and DO nothing, what indolence! 
I had to find sewing, knitting, or even drawing to do if the radio was on and I was listening to it. Otherwise a book, or comic, was acceptable. Still it taught me multitasking at a young age!
Silence was reserved for news, weather, and probably Mrs Dales diary. I had my supper whilst The Archers was on and during primary school was sent to bed immediately afterwards. Lights out being gradually extended as I got older.


----------



## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

baldilocks said:


> I don't agree with one iota of it! Quite how you can come to your conclusion beats me.


Just to be clear, you don't agree with this?


> "Migration itself can be disruptive to other dimensions of people's lives – social ties, sense of belonging – possibly with consequences for their happiness," said Dr Bartram to The Independent.
> British migrants sometimes found that their qualifications were not recognised and they were forced to take jobs with a lower social status than expected, he suggested. They might feel excluded from local community networks and workplace banter because of a British reluctance to learn foreign languages and integrate.


Or this?



> He said that the migrants had higher incomes than the average in their new country, because they were often better educated and less likely to be retired. Some theories predicted that this would make them happier because they had more status.
> However, he had found the reverse, perhaps because “migration itself can be disruptive to other dimensions of people’s lives – social ties, sense of belonging – possibly with consequences for their happiness.


PS I have quoted this, but I haven't said whether I agree with it myself.


----------



## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

Isobella said:


> You may well be correct but how much better would they be in Spain with reference to affordable homes, council service cuts?


Homes in Spain are much cheaper, no doubt about it, but no matter how cheap they are people still need an income to be able to buy or rent one long term, and not just a precarious income on a succession of short term temporary contracts. Nobody in that situation, whether Spanish or foreign, would ever get a mortgage. That is the massive obstacle standing in the way of anyone wanting to come here and find work to support themselves.

The housing situation in London is crazy, and I agree with LDN2SP that the vast majority of younger people have no hope of ever being able to buy there, unless perhaps their parents or grandparents who may be sitting on a fortune, having bought many years ago, sell up and move somewhere cheaper in order to help them. However, younger buyers aren't locked out of the market in all areas of the country. My 21 year old nephew, who has a decent job with BT in Lancashire, having completed a Higher Apprenticeship with them, has bought his first home (just a terraced, but a foot on the ladder) as a single buyer.


----------



## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Just to be clear, you don't agree with this?Or this?
> 
> PS I have quoted this, but I haven't said whether I agree with it myself.


Aren't those two statements regarding employment contradictory?

First he says that British immigrants are often disappointed because their qualifications aren't recognised and they find themselves forced to take jobs with a lower social status then they expected.

Then he says the migrants had higher incomes than the average in their new country, because they were often better educated and less likely to be retired.


----------



## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Lynn R said:


> Aren't those two statements regarding employment contradictory?
> 
> First he says that British immigrants are often disappointed because their qualifications aren't recognised and they find themselves forced to take jobs with a lower social status then they expected.
> 
> Then he says the migrants had higher incomes than the average in their new country, because they were often better educated and less likely to be retired.


Yes, it does sound a bit strange, although I can see where he's coming from on both points. I think it's probably the cosequence of a study of hundreds of pages being condensed into a one page report.


----------



## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

ccm47 said:


> Re: No talking or other activity allowed. How I wish!
> I was NEVER allowed to just sit and DO nothing, what indolence!
> I had to find sewing, knitting, or even drawing to do if the radio was on and I was listening to it. Otherwise a book, or comic, was acceptable. Still it taught me multitasking at a young age!
> Silence was reserved for news, weather, and probably Mrs Dales diary. I had my supper whilst The Archers was on and during primary school was sent to bed immediately afterwards. Lights out being gradually extended as I got older.


Listening to the radio attentively and not just as background noise IS an activity. As for knitting...yes, I knitted, for my teddies, but very badly. I also did embroidery but knitted and embroidered very unskilfully. 
My mother knitted...jumpers, cardigans, socks, gloves, scarves, vests...I used to wish she hadn't.


----------



## Isobella (Oct 16, 2014)

My Mother knitted too she stopped when I grew up but started again when she was old. She knitted a cardigan after I complained the AC was a bit keen in the office. It has a cable pattern down each side. I say has because I have still got it It is at least 25 years old and has her own label inside. Mainly kept it for sentimental reasons but found it useful for gardening on cool days.

I was hopeless, knitted a long scarf when all the kids were doing it. The width varied from about 6 to 12 ins. I could have started a trend


----------



## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

Isobella said:


> My Mother knitted too she stopped when I grew up but started again when she was old. She knitted a cardigan after I complained the AC was a bit keen in the office. It has a cable pattern down each side. I say has because I have still got it It is at least 25 years old and has her own label inside. Mainly kept it for sentimental reasons but found it useful for gardening on cool days.
> 
> I was hopeless, knitted a long scarf when all the kids were doing it. The width varied from about 6 to 12 ins. I could have started a trend


My great-granny, in whose house we lived when I was small, was a dressmaker and made almost all my clothes until she became too frail. My mother knitted a lot too, and she made me a lot of nice things.

I am and always have been useless at sewing and knitting. In my first year at secondary school we had to do sewing. The first project was to make a cookery apron for domestic science lessons and mine was still half finished at the end of the year, having been unpicked more times than I care to remember. Luckily we could ditch domestic science after the first year to do accelerated O levels instead, so I gladly did.


----------



## Horlics (Sep 27, 2011)

baldilocks said:


> DR Bartrum is an idiot. He takes an extremely small sample of people and exterpolates the results of his "survey" (note that we aren't given a copy of the questions asked) to apply to all the Brits who now live in all the countries bordering the Mediterranean. Of course the moronic media, ever on the lookout for something to spice up their content, pick it up and run with it as though it is an established fact.
> 
> Absolute b*ll*cks.


Absolutely right, Baldi. 

Not sure he's an idiot though. Presumably he gets paid for doing what he does, which is unbelievable but a clever feat if ever there was one. Or does the academic "profession" facilitate an environment in which idiots can get away with it.

I have no idea what the source of income is. The books he writes probably become recommend or compulsory reading material for the next generation of those who study wishy washy subjects and publish bollocks, which this absolutely is.

The thread started by saying "More food for thought for those thinking of taking the plunge..."

It is not, it is absolute bollocks.

To summarise, missing the parts of the family who choose to live their lives indoors with the heating on in June has a 3 or 4 in 100 (of his scale) impact on overall happiness. Seems to me that most are happy to leave them behind.


----------



## Isobella (Oct 16, 2014)

Lynn R said:


> I am and always have been useless at sewing and knitting. In my first year at secondary school we had to do sewing. The first project was to make a cookery apron for domestic science lessons and mine was still half finished at the end of the year, having been unpicked more times than I care to remember. Luckily we could ditch domestic science after the first year to do accelerated O levels instead, so I gladly did.


OMG I could have written this I just managed to finish mine. Some of the kids were wearing theirs after a few weeks. I could never understand how all the stitches needed to be the same size when they were on the inside.

I think I am showing signs of ageing though. I am thinking of trying to knit dog coats for the winter:laugh::laugh:


----------



## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

mrypg9 said:


> How on earth do you measure 'happiness'?


By using questionnaires like this. Governments and businesses are starting to measure levels of happiness and wellbeing in the population because - surprise surprise - happy people are more productive. 

Happiness Survey


----------



## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

Alcalaina said:


> By using questionnaires like this. Governments and businesses are starting to measure levels of happiness and wellbeing in the population because - surprise surprise - happy people are more productive.
> 
> Happiness Survey


If they stopped wasting money on such nonsense, Governments would be able to spend more on essential services and businesses could maybe pay people a bit more - which, guess what, would make them happier.


----------



## Veronica (Apr 5, 2008)

I suspect the people questioned were mostly younger people who need to work and maybe have children. 
We all know that countries like Spain and Cyprus are great for retired people who have pensions and can actually afford to live aborad but for young families it can be very difficult. 
All of our friends and aquaintance in Cyprus are very happy here and don't regret moving to the sun for one minute. However very many young families have had to leave because of lack of jobs and low wages even if they found jobs.
The only younger couples who seem to do well here are those who had an online business already which can be run from anywhere.


----------



## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Alcalaina said:


> By using questionnaires like this. Governments and businesses are starting to measure levels of happiness and wellbeing in the population because - surprise surprise - happy people are more productive.
> 
> Happiness Survey


5.3


----------



## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Veronica said:


> I suspect the people questioned were mostly younger people who need to work and maybe have children.
> We all know that countries like Spain and Cyprus are great for retired people who have pensions and can actually afford to live aborad but for young families it can be very difficult.
> All of our friends and aquaintance in Cyprus are very happy here and don't regret moving to the sun for one minute. However very many young families have had to leave because of lack of jobs and low wages even if they found jobs.
> The only younger couples who seem to do well here are those who had an online business already which can be run from anywhere.


Do the survey yourself. Younger? I am 74!


----------

