# Business autonomo thing???



## DROOBY (Aug 5, 2008)

Hi Chap and Chapesses,

I am recently opening a new business venture in a partnership.
I realise both partners need to pay autonomo but i have been told by our Gestor that in spain we are not allowed to employ our wives which was the plan but that they would need there own autonomo. This then means 4 autonomos, 4 tax returns and more cost.

Does anyone know away around this? Are they allowed to say they are only there helping out and not being paid? Any advice on this is greatly appreciated it is a bit more of a cost than i was planning.

Gracias

D


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## XTreme (May 17, 2008)

Disclose just you and your business partner.....your wives will get healthcare as your dependents. No need to mention wives at all.

Oh....and don't forget you'll be doomed without a nice website!


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## Tallulah (Feb 16, 2009)

DROOBY said:


> Hi Chap and Chapesses,
> 
> I am recently opening a new business venture in a partnership.
> I realise both partners need to pay autonomo but i have been told by our Gestor that in spain we are not allowed to employ our wives which was the plan but that they would need there own autonomo. This then means 4 autonomos, 4 tax returns and more cost.
> ...



Hi Drooby,

If you think about it, it's a bit like the UK. If you have a company, you can employ who you like - but if you're a contractor, then that's your lot. You work self-employed for a company or whatever. You don't employ other people unless you contract other self-employed - it's exactly the same here. 

Have you considered a S.L.? You would then be able to employ your wife but this entails other legalities/declarations, appointing an administrador, etc. just like in the UK for a Ltd company with audited accounts, registration in Companies House, etc. 

All in all a bit of a pain! BUT if you go ahead as autonomos and you have your wives at your place of business (assuming your place of business is not your home residence) then be extremely careful. This is a big risk and if an inspection finds you out, you might be lucky and get a warning the first time - or you might not be, but I can assure you from several experiences within the family that the fine can be serious business. Don't forget - this isn't just about salary or cutting costs. It's about health and safety and the ability to show that only workers frequent the workplace. To give you a very clear idea of how dodgy it can be, picture a master builder putting the finishing touches in his own almost completed house. His son is helping him on a daily basis to speed things up. He was warned to either get him off site or get him in into autonomo - or face the consequences. I should say here that the master builder was an autonomo. One further clear case, a man and his wife are running a bar. Man thinks that him being autonomo is enough - his wife just "helping out". He is wrong and is told to make his wife autonoma sharply as she has been observed working behind the bar regularly. Wife is now in autonomos - end of problem. Years on, the son now 18 is also "helping". In his case, few days on, few days off - whenever he can. A client who had been frequenting the bar, but not recognised as a local, advises the bar owner that he is breaking the law and needs to make his son autonomo or send him upstairs to where they live - but under no circumstances should he work behind the bar - and if he should so much as break a finger the bar would be closed. In the meantime, decide or a large fine will be forthcoming if it is reported.

Bottom line then - people working are either autonomo or employees of a SL or SA or some company structure. They are never "helping out". 

Obviously the risk is for you to decide on - but I would emphasise to please be aware the fine is extremely serious and not just a couple of thousand euros - and that's just by being found. God only knows what would happen if there was an accident or somesuch.

On the plus side, your wife will be building up a benefits stream and I believe they are working on supplying autonomos with dole benefit - so who knows, every cloud and all that!

Best of luck,

Tallulah.x


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## DROOBY (Aug 5, 2008)

Tallulah said:


> Hi Drooby,
> 
> If you think about it, it's a bit like the UK. If you have a company, you can employ who you like - but if you're a contractor, then that's your lot. You work self-employed for a company or whatever. You don't employ other people unless you contract other self-employed - it's exactly the same here.
> 
> ...


Cheers for that Tallulah. Good Info.

It's just a bloody pain. As the gestor says there is no problem with me employing someone and i would do it all by the books and give them contracts. But she says i'm not allowed to emploly my wife or someone who stays at my address.
It's just a trust issue there is alot of cash handling so the best idea is to employ our own partners but now thats not possible.
Hate the thought of paying 4 autonomos when you get nothing from the system for it much better to have someone on contracts and build up some benefits.

Suppose i could always get a divorse and do it that way

D


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## Tallulah (Feb 16, 2009)

DROOBY said:


> Cheers for that Tallulah. Good Info.
> 
> It's just a bloody pain. As the gestor says there is no problem with me employing someone and i would do it all by the books and give them contracts. But she says i'm not allowed to emploly my wife or someone who stays at my address.
> It's just a trust issue there is alot of cash handling so the best idea is to employ our own partners but now thats not possible.
> ...


Suppose i could always get a divorse and do it that way......yes I suppose...but costly financially either way!

On the plus side...if you could employ your wife "on the books" it would probably end up costing you a lot more anyway. Obviously I don't know what (regimen) area of SS contributions your enterprise falls under, but i've yet to hear of any regimen which is cheaper than the 250euros autonomo payments. Hence, the ridiculous number of mickey mouse contracts in Spain. Permanent employment contracts in Spain are very expensive for the employer. You may have heard about all the recent cries about employment reforms from various politicians - the cost of employing someone "properly" is a joke in Spain and once they're in, like France, they're a nightmare to get rid of if things don't work out.

You would not believe the redundancy weeks per year worked payments here. There really is a need for reform, but I suspect that's a long way off.

Good luck anyway!

Tallulah.x


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## DH1875 (Feb 21, 2009)

DROOBY said:


> Cheers for that Tallulah. Good Info.
> 
> It's just a bloody pain. As the gestor says there is no problem with me employing someone and i would do it all by the books and give them contracts. But she says i'm not allowed to emploly my wife or someone who stays at my address.
> It's just a trust issue there is alot of cash handling so the best idea is to employ our own partners but now thats not possible.
> ...



Hi Drooby,

Long time no speak Have to agree with you it is a complete pain in the a**.
Have be stuggling looking for work so had the same idea and thought about starting our own business only to be told the same thing. Thought about the whole not mentioning the wife thing but was told that if she was caught working at all it would cost thousands in fines. The stupid thing is you can hire another member of the family to work for you on some sort of special contract and you only pay something like €11 a week ss for them.

What sort of business are you opening? Hasn't got anything to do with chickens has it as herd a story about a couple of scots guys who were opening a business in Nerja.


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