# Selling UK ..buying Spain...best to rent?



## andyviola (Aug 11, 2018)

Hi we putting house up for sale in UK. ONCE we get an Offer whats the best approach to buying in Spain ? Is it best to rent in Spain first and whats the min period you allowed to rent for? Basically how did people here in a similar sell and buy situation do the move ? Did anyone use self storage?


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

andyviola said:


> Hi we putting house up for sale in UK. ONCE we get an Offer whats the best approach to buying in Spain ? Is it best to rent in Spain first and whats the min period you allowed to rent for? Basically how did people here in a similar sell and buy situation do the move ? Did anyone use self storage?


We bought, then sold. We did a lot of pre-planning so knew, within a little, where we wanted to be. We went house hunting and eventually found the right house. It was almost as if the house said to us "Ah, you've got here at last."

We put in our offer, it was accepted, made arrangements to go by the next day to do some measuring up. The existing owners were in no hurry to get out since they were having a new place built. By extending the mortgage on our place in UK we were able to progressively pay for the house in Spain. We paid the balance and, shortly after, our place in UK sold, we paid off our mortgage and moved. It will be 10 years in November!

Absolutely no regrets.


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## andyviola (Aug 11, 2018)

Thanks well done...suppose gist of my query is how did you house hunt when you still in uk? Just online? Yes we know specific area too.


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## KG5 (Mar 21, 2016)

andyviola said:


> Thanks well done...suppose gist of my query is how did you house hunt when you still in uk? Just online? Yes we know specific area too.


We have lived here for 15 months - we decided to put our house in the UK on the market a couple of months back but will withdraw and do a few things to tidy it up as it's not had much interest.

We are renting in Spain...feel like we want to buy but still in two minds..I have met a lot of people who have suggested rental is a better option, particularly if you're not absolutely sure how long your stay will be.

We love life here and plan to stay but you never know what is around the corner. They key for me is finding a house where we don't have to plough more than 60/70% of our cash in...so that we at least have the option to buy back home if we had to move back and the house here doesn't sell and therefore needs to be rented out.

The emotional need to own a house is hard to resist though - we have kids and we'd like to think they can have a family house here. I know it is possible with rentals to make them feel homely but it's a mental thing!

For what it's worth I think buying here (specifically where are just outside Malaga) is as good a bet financially/investment wise as anywhere including Britain.


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

Not really relevant to your situation, but we bought in Spain almost 4 years before we moved over here permanently, initially as a holiday home but always with the intention of retiring here. We had spent many holidays based in Nerja and explored the surrounding area so knew La Axarquia was where we wanted to be based, but it was only after we'd made the decision to look for a property that during one holiday we came to visit Vélez-Málaga and knew instantly that it would suit our requirements ideally (close to the coast but not on it, so no living with hordes of tourists in summer and closed shops/restaurants in winter), close to Málaga airport, excellent public transport links (I don't drive so countryside or small village living was never an option), main regional hospital just down the road, huge selection of shops and other amenities plus more just 5km away in the coastal resort of Torre del Mar, lots of cultural activities and a town hardly touched by mass tourism. We didn't get as far as looking at properties that trip, but contacted a local Spanish agent on our next visit (English speaking ones were non-existent in this town back in 2002) but didn't get very far as he would only show us one property per day and they weren't necessarily what we were looking for. So via the internet I found a property search company based in Torrox Costa but serving the whole Axarquia area - they did not charge a fee but made their money by splitting the commission with the agent who had the listing if they got a sale. Gave them all the specifications of what we wanted and on our next visit we saw a total of 10 properties with them, all in the area we'd requested, within our budget and the right type of properties. We both knew the one we wanted immediately although it was rather bigger than we'd anticipated buying, so we completed on it in May 2003. Had a sizeable deposit and financed the rest by a combination of remortgaging our UK house and a small mortgage from a Spanish bank (we were both working full time and our mortgage repayments weren't huge so it wasn't too onerous).

Unexpectedly, we were able to bring forward our retirement plans by at least 5 years due to a number of factors (my OH inherited some money and when our next door neighbour put their house on the market we realised property prices in our village had increased by far more than we'd realised in just a short time), so we thought why hang around, we'll just go for it. Put the UK house on the market (it took 7 months to sell which was torture and we wouldn't get any more for it today than we did in 2006, according to sites like rightmove). Eventually got a buyer who wanted super quick completion so it was something of a scramble but we sold the house fully furnished and already had a fully furnished one here to move into, so that helped. Paid off the Spanish mortgage immediately after we arrived and used the remainder of the house sale proceeds and inheritance to live off for the next few years until our pensions started to become payable.

We sold that first house last year (3 months after putting it on the market) after owning it for 14 years. It was in the historic centre area, all steep cobbled streets but no vehicle access, and up a steepish hill, because I had been diagnosed with a heart condition and knew I'd have to have major surgery in the near future, which focussed our minds on how difficult it might become in our later years if we had more health problems and reduced mobility. Had no intention of moving away from the town which is still ideal for us, so bought an ático apartment very close and a level walk to the town centre and bus station, 2 minutes from the health centre, and life is certainly much easier although we miss our old neighbours and the views we had from our roof terrace.


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## DawnColin (Jul 12, 2018)

We haven't moved out to Spain yet, but our plan is to sell our place in the UK (we are now under offer) and transport all our items straight to Spain and into storage temporarily.

We will either rent short term and then look for somewhere to buy or may have the option to stay with friends. We know the area we want to be, we have seen properties that we like when we were out in June and know what we want to spend. So it is a little bit of a 'put all your eggs in one basket and go for it' mentality with us, as we cannot retire early to Spain and maintain a property in the UK. 

Come back in a year's time and I will be able to tell you if I would have done anything differently!


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Lynn R said:


> Not really relevant to your situation, but we bought in Spain almost 4 years before we moved over here permanently, initially as a holiday home but always with the intention of retiring here. We had spent many holidays based in Nerja and explored the surrounding area so knew La Axarquia was where we wanted to be based, but it was only after we'd made the decision to look for a property that during one holiday we came to visit Vélez-Málaga and knew instantly that it would suit our requirements ideally (close to the coast but not on it, so no living with hordes of tourists in summer and closed shops/restaurants in winter), close to Málaga airport, excellent public transport links (I don't drive so countryside or small village living was never an option), main regional hospital just down the road, huge selection of shops and other amenities plus more just 5km away in the coastal resort of Torre del Mar, lots of cultural activities and a town hardly touched by mass tourism. We didn't get as far as looking at properties that trip, but contacted a local Spanish agent on our next visit (English speaking ones were non-existent in this town back in 2002) but didn't get very far as he would only show us one property per day and they weren't necessarily what we were looking for. So via the internet I found a property search company based in Torrox Costa but serving the whole Axarquia area - they did not charge a fee but made their money by splitting the commission with the agent who had the listing if they got a sale. Gave them all the specifications of what we wanted and on our next visit we saw a total of 10 properties with them, all in the area we'd requested, within our budget and the right type of properties. We both knew the one we wanted immediately although it was rather bigger than we'd anticipated buying, so we completed on it in May 2003. Had a sizeable deposit and financed the rest by a combination of remortgaging our UK house and a small mortgage from a Spanish bank (we were both working full time and our mortgage repayments weren't huge so it wasn't too onerous).
> 
> Unexpectedly, we were able to bring forward our retirement plans by at least 5 years due to a number of factors (my OH inherited some money and when our next door neighbour put their house on the market we realised property prices in our village had increased by far more than we'd realised in just a short time), so we thought why hang around, we'll just go for it. Put the UK house on the market (it took 7 months to sell which was torture and we wouldn't get any more for it today than we did in 2006, according to sites like rightmove). Eventually got a buyer who wanted super quick completion so it was something of a scramble but we sold the house fully furnished and already had a fully furnished one here to move into, so that helped. Paid off the Spanish mortgage immediately after we arrived and used the remainder of the house sale proceeds and inheritance to live off for the next few years until our pensions started to become payable.
> 
> We sold that first house last year (3 months after putting it on the market) after owning it for 14 years. It was in the historic centre area, all steep cobbled streets but no vehicle access, and up a steepish hill, because I had been diagnosed with a heart condition and knew I'd have to have major surgery in the near future, which focussed our minds on how difficult it might become in our later years if we had more health problems and reduced mobility. Had no intention of moving away from the town which is still ideal for us, so bought an ático apartment very close and a level walk to the town centre and bus station, 2 minutes from the health centre, and life is certainly much easier although we miss our old neighbours and the views we had from our roof terrace.


 Very interesting Lynn.
Posts like this have certainly given me useful pointers over the years for retirement, and the experience of looking after aged parents and from my recent fracture ...
For example the importance of being honest with yourself about the future. Even if you are very active (as you were/ are I believe Lynn) health can fail unexpectedly and if it does, a torturous mountain side road in order to get to the hospital every day might just not be feasible. Or a 45 min journey to go and see your loved one in hospital might prove to be just too stressful. If you are retiring do you really want to take on a _finca_ with olive trees and goats to milk? Maybe you do, or maybe you do at 70, but at 80? 

Friends of ours, coming up to retirement who are fortunate to have enough money to build their own "forever" house exactly as they want and where they want, are planning to build a large 3 story property with a large garden which, taking into account their health and the fact that their sons are living abroad I have to say I think is not the right path. Of course, what does that matter, they are really happy with their project, but I think they are not really looking into their "forever" future.


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Very interesting Lynn.
> Posts like this have certainly given me useful pointers over the years for retirement, and the experience of looking after aged parents and from my recent fracture ...
> For example the importance of being honest with yourself about the future. Even if you are very active (as you were/ are I believe Lynn) health can fail unexpectedly and if it does, a torturous mountain side road in order to get to the hospital every day might just not be feasible. Or a 45 min journey to go and see your loved one in hospital might prove to be just too stressful. If you are retiring do you really want to take on a _finca_ with olive trees and goats to milk? Maybe you do, or maybe you do at 70, but at 80?
> 
> Friends of ours, coming up to retirement who are fortunate to have enough money to build their own "forever" house exactly as they want and where they want, are planning to build a large 3 story property with a large garden which, taking into account their health and the fact that their sons are living abroad I have to say I think is not the right path. Of course, what does that matter, they are really happy with their project, but I think they are not really looking into their "forever" future.


I've been taught a salutory lesson about thinking I was invincible and ill health wouldn't happen to me because I kept very fit and looked after my diet, didn't smoke, hardly drank, blah blah! When we arrived here to live I was 50 and had no conception that slogging up the hill every day with shopping might become a no no one day. We'd see Spanish people in their 70s and 80s doing it and think well, if they can do it, so can we - not thinking that the poor souls were often bent double, leaning on sticks and no doubt struggling and in pain.

We did at least have the sense to know that good public transport was essential to us (I've met elderly couples living in villas out in the campo or in small villages where one of them (usually the wife) can't drive, and I wonder what on earth they would do if the husband were to die or be incapacitated, leaving the non-driver stranded), and that it would be a good idea to have medical facilities very close by. Not a great idea imo to be living somewhere in your old age where an ambulance would have a long journey to reach you, and as you say things like more frequent medical appointments and hospital visiting would be so difficult. Looking after land and animals isn't something I would ever have wanted to do, but I know some people love it - but as you say it must become increasingly hard work the older you get.

If I were building a "forever property" it would definitely be a single storey one. We've even had the baths taken out in our new apartment and replaced by walk-in, non slip showers. When we were first looking for property here we would have dismissed the idea of living where we do now completely, just shows how things can change.


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## DawnColin (Jul 12, 2018)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Very interesting Lynn.
> Posts like this have certainly given me useful pointers over the years for retirement, and the experience of looking after aged parents and from my recent fracture ...
> For example the importance of being honest with yourself about the future. Even if you are very active (as you were/ are I believe Lynn) health can fail unexpectedly and if it does, a torturous mountain side road in order to get to the hospital every day might just not be feasible. Or a 45 min journey to go and see your loved one in hospital might prove to be just too stressful. If you are retiring do you really want to take on a _finca_ with olive trees and goats to milk? Maybe you do, or maybe you do at 70, but at 80?
> 
> Friends of ours, coming up to retirement who are fortunate to have enough money to build their own "forever" house exactly as they want and where they want, are planning to build a large 3 story property with a large garden which, taking into account their health and the fact that their sons are living abroad I have to say I think is not the right path. Of course, what does that matter, they are really happy with their project, but I think they are not really looking into their "forever" future.


This is so true! Its so easy to get pulled into the romantic notion of a private villa with a pool and garden and not think about the future practicalities. We are going for an apartment or a town house with a shared pool/garden as, although we are still young and able now (52 & 60), if we bought a villa we would probably have to sell up later in life. 

Also we wanted to be within walking distance of everything, only using the car for shopping, sightseeing and airport runs. The thought of having somewhere where you can't even walk to get a paper in the morning if you wanted to, has made us think very hard about our choice of property.


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## andyviola (Aug 11, 2018)

DawnColin said:


> We haven't moved out to Spain yet, but our plan is to sell our place in the UK (we are now under offer) and transport all our items straight to Spain and into storage temporarily.
> 
> We will either rent short term and then look for somewhere to buy or may have the option to stay with friends. We know the area we want to be, we have seen properties that we like when we were out in June and know what we want to spend. So it is a little bit of a 'put all your eggs in one basket and go for it' mentality with us, as we cannot retire early to Spain and maintain a property in the UK.
> 
> Come back in a year's time and I will be able to tell you if I would have done anything differently!


interesting as I was discussing with wife this idea of renting and storage.

Hard to buy a house just online really, and besides the thought of selling and moving to a house in a different country and coordinating the belongings coming to fills me with dread and terror!!

Any idea on rough storage costs per month in Spain for a typical 2 beds, 2 sofas, tables, desks, tv haha? I mean we talking 100 euro a month or bit less?


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

andyviola said:


> Thanks well done...suppose gist of my query is how did you house hunt when you still in uk? Just online? Yes we know specific area too.


Come over for a week or two and scout out various areas. This helps back up what you may have decided before you came or turns it around. Go with various agents, looking at what they have gives a far better idea of what *their* descriptions really mean. Look below the surface. If it says "rewired," wonder 'by whom?' - if you see 13 Amp sockets, a red flag should go up - those sockets and/or ring mains are illegal in Spain and it may well have been wired by either the owner or by somebody who invented himself as an electrician as he got of the plane. Look at the stairs: are the tiles on the stairs slippery? how high are the risers? in some cases you will find stairs with risers of more than 12 inches and it is like climbing the north face of the Eiger (maybe manageable when young but ...)

What is the dry gully just behind the house, all about? If you are told that it only ever has water in it when there is a cloudburst up in the nearby mountains - avoid. One house that we saw had just that situation - it is no longer there - it was a really big cloudburst!! What are the neighbours like? Look at the state of their houses, their gardens, what would they be like to live next to, etc.? Where do you park your vehicle? Do they have dogs yowling? Get your nose to work overtime detecting and identifying smells - is there a pong of cats' pee near the doorway (there is a Tom marking his territory and you will be in it!) are you downwind of an olive mill? they can be quite smelly in the summer when the residues go rancid. A lot of little things each in themselves but added together, 24 hours a day, 365 days...

No matter how much prior research you do about the general area, the climate, etc. nothing can replace having one's feet on the spot.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Lynn R said:


> When we arrived here to live I was 50 and had no conception that slogging up the hill every day with shopping might become a no no one day. We'd see Spanish people in their 70s and 80s doing it and think well, if they can do it, so can we - not thinking that the poor souls were often bent double, leaning on sticks and* no doubt struggling and in pain*.
> 
> 
> So true!
> ...


+++


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## DawnColin (Jul 12, 2018)

baldilocks said:


> Come over for a week or two and scout out various areas. This helps back up what you may have decided before you came or turns it around. Go with various agents, looking at what they have gives a far better idea of what *their* descriptions really mean. Look below the surface. If it says "rewired," wonder 'by whom?' - if you see 13 Amp sockets, a red flag should go up - those sockets and/or ring mains are illegal in Spain and it may well have been wired by either the owner or by somebody who invented himself as an electrician as he got of the plane. Look at the stairs: are the tiles on the stairs slippery? how high are the risers? in some cases you will find stairs with risers of more than 12 inches and it is like climbing the north face of the Eiger (maybe manageable when young but ...)
> 
> What is the dry gully just behind the house, all about? If you are told that it only ever has water in it when there is a cloudburst up in the nearby mountains - avoid. One house that we saw had just that situation - it is no longer there - it was a really big cloudburst!! What are the neighbours like? Look at the state of their houses, their gardens, what would they be like to live next to, etc.? Where do you park your vehicle? Do they have dogs yowling? Get your nose to work overtime detecting and identifying smells - is there a pong of cats' pee near the doorway (there is a Tom marking his territory and you will be in it!) are you downwind of an olive mill? they can be quite smelly in the summer when the residues go rancid. A lot of little things each in themselves but added together, 24 hours a day, 365 days...
> 
> No matter how much prior research you do about the general area, the climate, etc. nothing can replace having one's feet on the spot.


Our friends told me (who have been in Spain for 14 years now) that when they first started looking at places they found one they liked. The got an English speaking lawyer and thank goodness they did - the house was registered as a goat shed! Needless to say they bought something else, but all these lessons and feedback from the people who have been there and done it is priceless. :clap2::clap2::clap2:


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

DawnColin said:


> Our friends told me (who have been in Spain for 14 years now) that when they first started looking at places they found one they liked. The got an *English speaking lawyer* and thank goodness they did - the house was registered as a goat shed! Needless to say they bought something else, but all these lessons and feedback from the people who have been there and done it is priceless. :clap2::clap2::clap2:


The fact that the lawyer is English Speaking is not necessarily the best criterion for selecting an abogado unless you just want to have a chat. What you need is a good lawyer/abogado/a and a good translator who is conversant with the lingo applicable to property transactions. Many translators are good at, say, medical matters but hopeless at legal or vice versa and the problem is when they come across something that is out of their field, they will either skim over it or ignore it all together and you are left in blissful ignorance.


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

baldilocks said:


> Come over for a week or two and scout out various areas. This helps back up what you may have decided before you came or turns it around. Go with various agents, looking at what they have gives a far better idea of what *their* descriptions really mean. Look below the surface. If it says "rewired," wonder 'by whom?' - if you see 13 Amp sockets, a red flag should go up - those sockets and/or ring mains are illegal in Spain and it may well have been wired by either the owner or by somebody who invented himself as an electrician as he got of the plane. Look at the stairs: are the tiles on the stairs slippery? how high are the risers? in some cases you will find stairs with risers of more than 12 inches and it is like climbing the north face of the Eiger (maybe manageable when young but ...)
> 
> What is the dry gully just behind the house, all about? If you are told that it only ever has water in it when there is a cloudburst up in the nearby mountains - avoid. One house that we saw had just that situation - it is no longer there - it was a really big cloudburst!! What are the neighbours like? Look at the state of their houses, their gardens, what would they be like to live next to, etc.? Where do you park your vehicle? Do they have dogs yowling? Get your nose to work overtime detecting and identifying smells - is there a pong of cats' pee near the doorway (there is a Tom marking his territory and you will be in it!) are you downwind of an olive mill? they can be quite smelly in the summer when the residues go rancid. A lot of little things each in themselves but added together, 24 hours a day, 365 days...
> 
> No matter how much prior research you do about the general area, the climate, etc. nothing can replace having one's feet on the spot.


Excellent advice - I would just add take a compass to check on the orientation and work out where the sun will be coming from. If you buy a house which gets little or no sun in winter (especially in the shade of a mountain or even a high building opposite) it will be very cold and gloomy, but alternatively if it gets a lot of sun in summer it will be hot - but the colder months last longer than the very hot ones do! My husband took a compass when we were looking for our first house and the agents were amazed, I don't think they'd seen anyone do that before.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Lynn R said:


> Excellent advice - I would just add take a compass to check on the orientation and work out where the sun will be coming from. If you buy a house which gets little or no sun in winter (especially in the shade of a mountain or even a high building opposite) it will be very cold and gloomy, but alternatively if it gets a lot of sun in summer it will be hot - *but the colder months last longer than the very hot ones do!* My husband took a compass when we were looking for our first house and the agents were amazed, I don't think they'd seen anyone do that before.


That depends on where you are which is why it is important to check out the climate in your chosen area and the micro-climates for any particular town/village. Bear in mind that river valleys can be up to 10°C hotter in summer than the surrounding hills, they can also be frost hollows in winter. If any of you have breathing difficulties watch out for smog pockets (often downwind of industry) and pollen sources, e.g. where there are a lot of olives.


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## andyviola (Aug 11, 2018)

baldilocks said:


> Come over for a week or two and scout out various areas. This helps back up what you may have decided before you came or turns it around. Go with various agents, looking at what they have gives a far better idea of what *their* descriptions really mean. Look below the surface. .


Good idea....wife doesnt work so when we got a proper offer on our UK house maybe she will be happy to be flown off to Spain and do the hunting - she addicted online to house searching and knows area and what we after to a tee....but yes nasty things to look out for, thanks.


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## Isobella (Oct 16, 2014)

andyviola said:


> Good idea....wife doesnt work so when we got a proper offer on our UK house maybe she will be happy to be flown off to Spain and do the hunting - she addicted online to house searching and knows area and what we after to a tee....but yes nasty things to look out for, thanks.


Anything you like it is wise to do a walk around on Google also a search of area, future plans any contentious issues etc. Saves a bit of money before the Lawyers start charging.


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## andyviola (Aug 11, 2018)

Isobella said:


> Anything you like it is wise to do a walk around on Google also a search of area, future plans any contentious issues etc. Saves a bit of money before the Lawyers start charging.


is it going to be a nasty amount of money these lawyers?


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

andyviola said:


> is it going to be a nasty amount of money these lawyers?


They usually charge a percentage of the purchase price. Ours was 1% I think (but that was a few years ago). 

He was invaluable though, discovered an anomaly in the land registry record and wouldn't let us complete until it had been sorted. All too often these things get through on a promise ("we'll sort it out later") but they frequently just get forgotten about, causing problems years later.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Lynn R said:


> Excellent advice - I would just add take a compass to check on the orientation and work out where the sun will be coming from. If you buy a house which gets little or no sun in winter (especially in the shade of a mountain or even a high building opposite) it will be very cold and gloomy, but alternatively if it gets a lot of sun in summer it will be hot - but the colder months last longer than the very hot ones do! My husband took a compass when we were looking for our first house and the agents were amazed, I don't think they'd seen anyone do that before.


Good advice - and also a theodolite to check the angles. I know a couple who bought a house in a valley - lovely in summer, but no sun at all between October and March because the sun never rose above the mountain!


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## andyviola (Aug 11, 2018)

Alcalaina said:


> They usually charge a percentage of the purchase price. Ours was 1% I think (but that was a few years ago).
> 
> He was invaluable though, discovered an anomaly in the land registry record and wouldn't let us complete until it had been sorted. All too often these things get through on a promise ("we'll sort it out later") but they frequently just get forgotten about, causing problems years later.


phew not a killer then though I hope percentages dont go up, just house prices


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Alcalaina said:


> They usually charge a percentage of the purchase price. Ours was 1% I think (but that was a few years ago).
> 
> He was invaluable though, discovered an anomaly in the land registry record and wouldn't let us complete until it had been sorted. All too often these things get through on a promise ("we'll sort it out later") but they frequently just get forgotten about, causing problems years later.


As I keep telling everybody, you don't want an English-speaking lawyer (unless you want to just chat about the weather) - you want a *good *lawyer and a good translator who knows about property transactions.


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## andyviola (Aug 11, 2018)

once property purchased is the UK will about "wife gets money then daughter does" sufficient or would daughter be left with a legal nightmare on our deaths to actually inherit home?


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

andyviola said:


> once property purchased is the UK will about "wife gets money then daughter does" sufficient or would daughter be left with a legal nightmare on our deaths to actually inherit home?


Far better to write a new will in accordance with the EU Succession Regulations than to depend on a foreign person correctly interpreting a UK will in the way the testator intended. A Spanish will will be in two columns one in Spanish and the other in English each being translations of the other so that all parties and the authorities are clear on what is intended. One can stipulate that the Spanish will only applies to assets domiciled in Spain and any UK domiciled assets are dealt with in a separate UK will in English. HOWEVER, taxation will be under the jurisdiction of the country in which the deceased was living at the time of her/his demise.


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## andyviola (Aug 11, 2018)

baldilocks said:


> Far better to write a new will in accordance with the EU Succession Regulations than to depend on a foreign person correctly interpreting a UK will in the way the testator intended. A Spanish will will be in two columns one in Spanish and the other in English each being translations of the other so that all parties and the authorities are clear on what is intended. One can stipulate that the Spanish will only applies to assets domiciled in Spain and any UK domiciled assets are dealt with in a separate UK will in English. HOWEVER, taxation will be under the jurisdiction of the country in which the deceased was living at the time of her/his demise.


hmmm and I thought early retirement would be nice and relaxed and boring


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## uk03878 (Jul 4, 2018)

andyviola said:


> hmmm and I thought early retirement would be nice and relaxed and boring


As I am starting to figure out, corporate work is nothing compared to trying to sort retiring early abroad 
I have spent the last three months scouring as much information as I can 
I am digesting the Blevins Franks books avidly (bought 4 of them via Beth at their office on the phone , they arrived the next day)
And from my perspective
Portugal has 10 years of tax free living (although the EU is trying to close it down), Spain is cheap and private healthcare is cheap but there is no tax efficient investment vehicles for overseas income and assets, France is tax efficent for a couple but renting is expensive and the healthcare costs are based on previous 2 years income.. so not going there first, cyprus is very tax efficient but the flight is a bit long for a quick pop over and healthcare insurance is very expensive

We are planning to retire on a five year holiday to Spain, then France then maybe Cyprus or Italy


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

uk03878 said:


> As I am starting to figure out, corporate work is nothing compared to trying to sort retiring early abroad
> I have spent the last three months scouring as much information as I can
> I am digesting the Blevins Franks books avidly (bought 4 of them via Beth at their office on the phone , they arrived the next day)
> And from my perspective
> ...


The trouble with exhaustive research is that things do have an annoying habit of changing!

The Portugese NHR taxation regime wasn't in existence, for example, when we were considering whether to move to Portugal or Spain back in 2002/2003. As you will have read on the forum in the last few weeks, entitlement to state healthcare in Spain for foreign early retirees changed in 2012 and has now changed back again (and may well change a third time depending on the outcome of the next General Election). Next year, incomes of up to €14k per year will not be subject to income tax in Spain and those with incomes below €17k will pay less tax (and the starting rate of income tax has already gone down from 24.5% to 19% - a big change from how things were just a few years ago, and there have been favourable changes to inheritance tax here in Andalucia too, enacted last year. Some changes turn out to be beneficial for us, some don't - much as it was in the UK, really.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

uk03878 said:


> As I am starting to figure out, corporate work is nothing compared to trying to sort retiring early abroad
> I have spent the last three months scouring as much information as I can
> I am digesting the Blevins Franks books avidly (bought 4 of them via Beth at their office on the phone , they arrived the next day)
> And from my perspective
> ...


Do you ever get the idea that you are over-thinking this whole project? Way back around the turn of the century, I was almost 60 and the question of where would we live when retirement came along. Of course forums such as this did not exist nor was there much information available on the internet. So it was getting books out of the library.

We had a fair list of countries with which we had some links (holidays, language, family, etc.) so it was a case of summing up the positives and negatives of each country. I had a list of about 7 countries to work through. One by one, they fell by the wayside for various reasons - climate, crime, no pension increases (amongst other things,) political instability, high taxation, etc. Eventually I was left with Portugal or Spain and I rather fancied Portugal (my general impression of Spain, having flown via Madrid in September was that it was brown, almost a desert) but SWMBO said she wasn't learning another language at her age (45 at the time - she could already speak some Portuguese) completely overlooking the fact that I had only started learning Spanish at the age of 48. So it was to be Spain.

Then it was a case of deciding where - Spain is quite a large country with a range of climates and a range of cultures. In 2005 my f-i-l died so it was certain that the m-i-l would have, at some point, to live with us. WE brought her over to UK in December of that year and we then brought her on a quicky holiday to Spain, flying into Sevilla then touring via Córdoba, Granada and Ronda back to Sevilla. On the whole we liked what we saw and decided that, maybe, somewhere in that area might be where we would move to. I then set about reviewing, in detail, the climate and the property prices (we had a fairly small budget.) I am not a townie having been born in a village where the people looked out for each other. 

We prepared a list of possible places and, taking Granada as a centre looked at properties to the North and west ranging from Iznájar to Montefrio, to Moclín, Limones and Tozár (the latter ruled itself out - I wasn't going to be known as a Tosser from Tozár) Our next visit we went further North and stayed in a rural hotel quite near to where I'm sitting now. Saw lots of properties - some were definite 'Nos' one or two were 'Maybe, buts' and on the Thursday before we were due to fly home, we were in a village that I had previously dismissed ("I wouldn't want to live there, all splurged over a hillside") and we came to this house. As we walked in the door, the house seemed to say to us "You've got here at last, I've been waiting for you." Fortunately the owners were in no rush to move since they were having a new place built near their son. We paid our deposit and the balance over the next year, sold our flat in UK and moved, lock, stock, barrel and mother-i-law.

We will have lived here ten years in November and our dreams of living in our own little paradise have worked out.


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## Isobella (Oct 16, 2014)

Lynn R said:


> The trouble with exhaustive research is that things do have an annoying habit of changing!
> 
> The Portugese NHR taxation regime wasn't in existence, for example, when we were considering whether to move to Portugal or Spain back in 2002/2003. As you will have read on the forum in the last few weeks, entitlement to state healthcare in Spain for foreign early retirees changed in 2012 and has now changed back again (and may well change a third time depending on the outcome of the next General Election). Next year, incomes of up to €14k per year will not be subject to income tax in Spain and those with incomes below €17k will pay less tax (and the starting rate of income tax has already gone down from 24.5% to 19% - a big change from how things were just a few years ago, and there have been favourable changes to inheritance tax here in Andalucia too, enacted last year. Some changes turn out to be beneficial for us, some don't - much as it was in the UK, really.


It all sounds fairer likewise the universal health care but this week on Bloomberg TV it said that Spanish public debt had reached 98.8% so I wonder how long they can sustain lower taxes.


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## MaryHinge (Jul 13, 2018)

Isobella said:


> It all sounds fairer likewise the universal health care but this week on Bloomberg TV it said that Spanish public debt had reached 98.8% so I wonder how long they can sustain lower taxes.


Likewise The U.K at 88% , Portugal 130% , France 97% Belgium 105% , Italy 132%, Greece a whopping 180% We are all doomed .....Estonia 8% wow

https://www.statista.com/statistics...es-in-relation-to-gross-domestic-product-gdp/


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

Isobella said:


> It all sounds fairer likewise the universal health care but this week on Bloomberg TV it said that Spanish public debt had reached 98.8% so I wonder how long they can sustain lower taxes.


All very coonfusing because on the other hand, the country reportedly raised record tax revenues last year and six of the 17 autonomous regions are now running a surplus rather than a deficit (Catalunya being the notable exception - they have doubled their deficit).

https://www.larazon.es/economia/cat...t-y-es-la-region-con-mayor-agujero-FO18522034


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

According to today's El Pais, Spain's public debt stood at over 100% of PIB in 2015 and 2016 but is now on the way down (slightly) thanks to the recovery of the economy - so at least it is going in the right direction!

https://elpais.com/economia/2018/08/17/actualidad/1534536113_061224.html


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## Williams2 (Sep 15, 2013)

andyviola said:


> once property purchased is the UK will about "wife gets money then daughter does" sufficient or would daughter be left with a legal nightmare on our deaths to actually inherit home?


The BIG thing about Spanish Inheritance tax, as it would affect your UK property when you pass away, is to try
and avoid leaving your BIGGEST UK asset namely your UK house or other property, to one sole heir, 
that is your Sole ownership of the whole house to one beneficiary.

The reason being - is that Spanish nil rate IHT tax bands ( across all Spanish regions ) are based on average
Spanish property prices - which of course bear no comparison with the UK property market where particularly
in London and the South-east are out of sight, compared to Spain.
Then on top of that we have the SPECTRE of BREXIT with British Expats due to be treated as Non EU citizens;
as it relates to their IHT tax obligations, where the Spanish tax office have ( in the past ) disregarded 
the autonomous regions, nil rate bands and assessed the beneficiary on a meaner national nil rate band.

There have been cases like when a women in Canada tried to refuse her fathers inheritance 
( a Canadian Expat in Spain ) because she couldn't afford the Spanish Inheritance tax charges on his
estate; which included the family home back in Canada.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

baldilocks said:


> As I keep telling everybody, you don't want an English-speaking lawyer (unless you want to just chat about the weather) - you want a *good *lawyer and a good translator who knows about property transactions.


He did speak very good English actually. The two aren't mutually exclusive. We found him by googling "English-speaking lawyers in Cadiz"...


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Lynn R said:


> According to today's El Pais, Spain's public debt stood at over 100% of PIB in 2015 and 2016 but is now on the way down (slightly) thanks to the recovery of the economy - so at least it is going in the right direction!
> 
> https://elpais.com/economia/2018/08/17/actualidad/1534536113_061224.html


It's at its highest ever. https://elpais.com/economia/2018/08/17/actualidad/1534496580_720983.html

If anyone isn't aware, the debt is the result of borrowing money from the EU to finance failing Spanish banks.

And even if the country's economy continues to improve, any surplus will go on servicing the debt. Under EU rules, this has to take priority over public services and tax cuts - austerity is here to stay.


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## Isobella (Oct 16, 2014)

Lynn R said:


> According to today's El Pais, Spain's public debt stood at over 100% of PIB in 2015 and 2016 but is now on the way down (slightly) thanks to the recovery of the economy - so at least it is going in the right direction!
> 
> https://elpais.com/economia/2018/08/17/actualidad/1534536113_061224.html


The point Bloomberg made that Spain debt had Been going down but has now rose again slightly. Could be a blip.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Williams2 said:


> The BIG thing about Spanish Inheritance tax, as it would affect your UK property when you pass away, is to try
> and avoid leaving your BIGGEST UK asset namely your UK house or other property, to one sole heir,
> that is your Sole ownership of the whole house to one beneficiary.
> 
> ...


Willie, Succession has nothing to do with Inheritance Tax. The question was about the former.


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

Alcalaina said:


> It's at its highest ever. https://elpais.com/economia/2018/08/17/actualidad/1534496580_720983.html
> 
> If anyone isn't aware, the debt is the result of borrowing money from the EU to finance failing Spanish banks.
> 
> And even if the country's economy continues to improve, any surplus will go on servicing the debt. Under EU rules, this has to take priority over public services and tax cuts - austerity is here to stay.


In terms of the actual sum owed, yes. But as the article you linked to points out:-

"Pese a tratarse de un récord en cifras absolutas, es cierto que en relación a la riqueza española todavía no se ha vuelto a los niveles más altos. En 2016 la deuda llegó a superar el 100% del PIB por primera vez en un siglo. En este momento se sitúa cerca del 98,2% del PIB (tomando como referencia las últimas cifras provisionales de PIB trimestral a precios corrientes publicadas por el Instituto Nacional de Estadística), ya que la economía española sigue creciendo con fuerza en la primera mitad del año. En el segundo trimestre el avance fue algo más moderado (del 0,6% frente al 0,7% del primer trimestre), pero todavía con cierta velocidad de crucero."

Isobella is worried that the tax cuts and universal healthcare may be too generous to be sustainable, you say austerity is here to stay. You can't both be right!


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Lynn R said:


> In terms of the actual sum owed, yes. But as the article you linked to points out:-
> 
> "Pese a tratarse de un récord en cifras absolutas, es cierto que en relación a la riqueza española todavía no se ha vuelto a los niveles más altos. En 2016 la deuda llegó a superar el 100% del PIB por primera vez en un siglo. En este momento se sitúa cerca del 98,2% del PIB (tomando como referencia las últimas cifras provisionales de PIB trimestral a precios corrientes publicadas por el Instituto Nacional de Estadística), ya que la economía española sigue creciendo con fuerza en la primera mitad del año. En el segundo trimestre el avance fue algo más moderado (del 0,6% frente al 0,7% del primer trimestre), pero todavía con cierta velocidad de crucero."
> 
> Isobella is worried that the tax cuts and universal healthcare may be too generous to be sustainable, you say austerity is here to stay. You can't both be right!


But as I'm sure you are aware, Brussels has the final say. If they decide a member state is being too "generous" they can veto its budget. Spain and most other members (not UK) signed up to this fiscal pact in 2012. Spain has already been given a warning and had to revise its proposed pension increases downwards.

There are municipal and regional elections coming up next year remember ... so expect a fair number of unrealistic claims and promises.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

baldilocks said:


> Willie, Succession has nothing to do with Inheritance Tax. The question was about the former.


 They are the same thing.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Alcalaina said:


> They are the same thing.


NO THEY ARE NOT

Succession says who gets what, IHT says who pays how much in taxes


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

baldilocks said:


> NO THEY ARE NOT
> 
> Succession says who gets what, IHT says who pays how much in taxes


Oh all right, if you want to be pedantic.

But inheritance tax in Spain is called _Impuesto de Succesiónes_ ...


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## Williams2 (Sep 15, 2013)

baldilocks said:


> Willie, Succession has nothing to do with Inheritance Tax. The question was about the former.


Trust you to be pedantic !! - anyway lets bundle them both together and abbreviate it to Spanish IHT !!

:lol:


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