# Calgary or Vancouver or Toronto? Comments please!



## Canadadreaming (Aug 15, 2008)

Hi
I am 97 % through the process of becoming a Skilled Worker Immigrant with my Family. The clock is now ticking and I have to go to Canada in a year.
I would like the opinions of others please on the most suitable place to live and work against some of our requirements.
I am a Senior Engineer in the UK Food Industry, my Wife has experience of Auxiliary Nursing, Export and I.T Office Skillls.Our Kids are 11 and less.

I need to work so need to be within commuting distance of some manufacturing facilities. We do not want to be fully isolated from "City Life" however, if my Wife can get around on Public Tranport ( she is not keen on driving in Canada ) that would be great. 

Having spent time in Mississuaga , Toronto we found this much too built up, lots of traffic , little better than the UK. I hear that there are nicer places a little further inland.
High on our list are work/reasonable standard of housing/Schooling and the opportunity to experience some of the Great Outdoors yet still be able to get to a Cinema or some decent Restaurants.

Are there places around Toronto like this ?

Vancouver seems very popular, sea,sand, snow and a temperate <sic > climate but OMG it seems expensive. Is it possible to commute from some of the outlying areas please and still have some of the above things.What are house prices like ,4 Bed detached equivalent with a 40 minute commute?

Thinking logically, if you cannot get to the Rockies from one side, what about the other - Calgary ? Went to show in London and had a speech from the Calagary Development Agency. They claimed low tax, strong demand for work and a "young" population with occasional relative warm days with some warmer winds in the winter.An hour or so to the Rockies- is that correct ? 

Oh, and one other thing that is bugging me like an itch that will not go away. How do UK Ex-Pats, who moved for a better quality of life get on when I understand that North American Employers offer only 2 weeks vacation? 

Any comments on these 3 cities and the vacations from anyone with experience would be appreciated. Assume we know nothing and you will not be far off ! 
Thanks in advance team !

Mark


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## Deeana (Jul 13, 2008)

Hi Mark,
Congratulations on getting to this point in the immigration application - and thanks for describing the process for others to benefit from - it certainly sounds like a long haul these days!

Having lived in Canada for quite a while I'd like to offer my 2 cents worth on the three cities you mention and alternatives.

Vancouver is always described as more attractive than other cities in Canada, but I don't think that is enough to justify the higher prices there. Not only that, commuting is difficult and the city is busy, plus there is a lot of competition for jobs from immigrants from all over the world, especially the East. Plus, although it is milder, it rains a lot especially in the summer. And I mean A LOT. My husband was offered a job in downtown Vancouver but we couldn't take it, although it was a good position, because we couldn't afford a house or apartment close enough to the job which he could commute from. 

Toronto is huge and personally I wouldn't live there, not in the city. The weather is difficult - very hot and humid in summer and prone to ice storms in winter. It is busy, crowded and polluted these days, and the roads are often jammed up and I can't see why anyone would want to exchange life in the UK for something so similar in Canada, unless you had family there already, in which case it makes sense to start there and move once you've got your bearings, in a few years maybe.

It is true what the Calgary Development people said about Calgary. It is just over an hour to Canmore in the Rockies (where I also lived) which is a very expensive ski resort now, if you start from the west side of Calgary. It can take an hour though to get across Calgary, so if you expect to make the trip often you'd be better off living in Calgary North West. My husband commuted from NE Calgary to Canmore for a year and it nearly (literally) killed him (car crash on black ice) but it is just do-able - 2 hours each way at busy times.

It IS a young city, it has excellent health care, excellent schools and a very good university indeed (I went there and so did my son) which is on the cutting edge of much research and provides olympic standard sports facilities. There is a lot going on, lots to do, but don't take what they say about mild winters too seriously. The first winter we were there the temperature fell to minus 40 deg with a wind chilll of -70 on the highway and our car froze solid - the water in the radiator froze as we were driving along Deerfoot Trail! That said, they do have the Chinooks which bring the temperature up to a balmy zero for quite a few days in the winter. Beware February, thou false friend, for March has teeth!!!!!!!!! Canmore only has about 58 frost free days in the year. It snowed one August when we were there.

Having said that, you will have a house which is easily heatable, a car with an engine heating block and a place to plug in the heater in the carparks, a good public transport system (C-train) and very good roads. If I were in your place I'd go for Calgary. Oh, I forgot the altitude. It is high, and there is less oxygen in the air, so for some that is an issue if you are asthmatic or have other respiratory problems.

The alternative that I would suggest would be one of the towns in Ontario which are outside of Toronto, for example London, Waterloo, Sarnia, Kingston and so on (if you can get a job there it's a nice place to live) - you'll find these places all online telling you how great they are - and they are. 

There is also the Maritimes. Although traditionally poorer areas they have apparently recently come across some oil in Nova Scotia I think it is, and things are looking up. I have met lovely people from that part of Canada, and it is definitely very beautiful. Can't say that for Calgary. But 8 foot dumps of snow in the winter are normal. 

Hope some of these random thoughts help a bit with your research. To tell you the truth we are also thinking of returning to Canada one day if and when my husband's tour of duty here in the Caribbean ever ends (I'm in the UK mostly running our business while he's in the Bahamas - what did I do wrong!) but the only thing that worries me is the taxation over there in Canada. All the time we were there we had a really hard time making ends meet, a really hard time. You lose 40% right off the top of your wages.

But the Rockies sure are pretty!

Enjoy your day!
Deeana







Canadadreaming said:


> Hi
> I am 97 % through the process of becoming a Skilled Worker Immigrant with my Family. The clock is now ticking and I have to go to Canada in a year.
> I would like the opinions of others please on the most suitable place to live and work against some of our requirements.
> I am a Senior Engineer in the UK Food Industry, my Wife has experience of Auxiliary Nursing, Export and I.T Office Skillls.Our Kids are 11 and less.
> ...


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## spaceprobe (Oct 29, 2008)

Here is my perspective having lived in both Vancouver, Toronto, and short time in Calgary.

Toronto is a large city, and if you live in the suburbs, the transportation to a downtown job will be quite lengthy. However, if you live downtown, there are plenty of cultural things to do, like museums and theatre. As Canada's largest city, it is also one of the most diverse with many cultures represented in large populations. Unfortunately, like most of Canada except the Vancouver area (Southwest BC), winters in Toronto (and Calgary) are extremely cold and frequently snowy and windy. Cars do get frozen, as previously mentioned! However, toronto has a great public transit system and is highly convenient if you live by the subway route.

Vancouver truly is Canada's most attractive city. In my opinion, it does justify higher home prices - there is a reason for the high prices (high demand because of the economy, standard of living, and environment). However, rent roughly equal to Toronto and Calgary. 

It is true that it can rain frequently (in the winter....NOT in the summer, as stated incorrectly by the previous post. In fact, it rarely rains in the summer). It's perhaps comparable to the UK. Temperature-wise, it is definitely the mildest major city in Canada, with warm winters, and summers that rarely get swelting heat waves that Toronto and Calgary experience more often. Transportation around Vancouver is not bad at all. The only trouble spots are when crossing the bridges from the some of the suburbs, but even they aren't that bad compared to Toronto's gridlock. I have heard Calgary's rush hour traffic is also in gridlock because of the fast pace of population growth, but slow pace of infrastructure improvement. The public transit system in Vancouver is very good, especially in the core city and nearest suburbs. Living near the rapid transit Skytrain system gives you access to most of the city's destinations. Vancouver is also one of Canada's most multicultural cities, like Toronto. In terms of recreation, Vancouver, as a coastal city, has access to ocean and mountain sports very readily (eg, the North shore ski resorts are only 15 minutes from downtown) and Whistler is 2 hrs drive away.

Calgary has sunny weather, but the air is quite dry. It is about 2 hrs drive to the famous town of Banff in the Rockies, which is a beautiful destination. The city is quite new and has many oil company headquarters. If you are in the oil industry, that is probably where you would go. Multiculturalism in Calgary is far less than Vancouver or Toronto, but it is starting to pick up in growth. Calgary is also a very conservative city (in terms of political attitude), and many describe it as the most American city in Canada. 

In both Vancouver and Toronto, there are large British populations.

In terms of population growth, all three are growing at rapid paces.

P.S. If you can afford it, I don't view home prices as a factor when deciding where to live. It is like a savings account - an investment, like a financial investment. If and when you downsize, you will get the value of your house, whose value will have risen over the long run, back in cash. 




Deeana said:


> Hi Mark,
> Congratulations on getting to this point in the immigration application - and thanks for describing the process for others to benefit from - it certainly sounds like a long haul these days!
> 
> Having lived in Canada for quite a while I'd like to offer my 2 cents worth on the three cities you mention and alternatives.
> ...


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## Raymapleleaf (Nov 1, 2008)

hi we are 100% sure we move to calgary why you ask. 

1 the people are very helpful ,kind and geninue (been 2 times on hoilday and peolpe were too helpful) not like london
2 no tax GST
3 The Rockies hour half away ?
4 wages higher
ask me any thing else i have been reading too much while we wait
regards ray


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## Robyn (Nov 13, 2008)

EDWARDTHE CHEF said:


> hi we are 100% sure we move to calgary why you ask.
> 
> 1 the people are very helpful ,kind and geninue (been 2 times on hoilday and peolpe were too helpful) not like london
> 2 no tax GST
> ...


In regards to your second point, you still will be paying the 5% GST tax in Alberta, however, Alberta does not have a provincial tax (PST), whereas other provinces do.

About your third point, the Rockies are closer to an hour's drive away by highway.


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## louiseg (Nov 17, 2007)

Canadadreaming said:


> Hi
> 
> Oh, and one other thing that is bugging me like an itch that will not go away. How do UK Ex-Pats, who moved for a better quality of life get on when I understand that North American Employers offer only 2 weeks vacation?
> 
> ...


Hi Mark, congratulations on getting to the final stages.

We live an hour west of Calgary. On the vacation point, my husband works in the construction industry and they do get very limited vacation time. It has not really affected our quality of life here though. There are more public holidays, about one per month, and quite often they will finish early on a Friday in the summer so every can get way in their RV's. It appears to be a less stressful working environment than the UK, from our perspective anyway. You get used to it. I've not heard many expats saying it affects their quliaty of life here, all the other benefits are well worth it!


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## Getting There (Nov 19, 2008)

Canadadreaming said:


> Hi
> I am 97 % through the process of becoming a Skilled Worker Immigrant with my Family. The clock is now ticking and I have to go to Canada in a year.
> I would like the opinions of others please on the most suitable place to live and work against some of our requirements.
> I am a Senior Engineer in the UK Food Industry, my Wife has experience of Auxiliary Nursing, Export and I.T Office Skillls.Our Kids are 11 and less.
> ...


Hi Mark,

We'll give you a Calgary and surrounds perspective.

We moved to Okotoks, Alberta in 2007. Okotoks is a town of 20,000 people a 20 minute drive south of the southern edge of Calgary. It's a lovely little place. Even though it is growing quite fast, it has a small town feel. It has all the amenities one would associate with a larger place (plenty of shopping, including a quaint - by North American standards - downtown core), decent restaurants, good schools and recreational facilities. Just south of here is a significant food manufacturing plant...

Cargill Limited

...which might be worth a look at.

As for driving, Janet had not long since passed her test when we came here but the roads are nothing like the UK or the likes of Vancouver, (which we visited before we decided Calgary and surrounds would be our new home). They are quieter and less congested (sure, you will still hit traffic jams in Calgary itself in rush hour but even these are unlike anything we were used to in the south east of England).

From our front door...it is a legal, 2 hour drive to the centre of Banff in the Rockies. You can see the Rockies from here in Okotoks and they look glorious. There are places around Calgary that you can head to that would certainly put you just an hour from Banff...eg: Cochrane.

Not everyone gets just 2 weeks. Having said that, Janet does. Our solution is to take some unpaid leave when operationally OK. We're not getting by on just 2 weeks! For me, my job does not have set hours/days, etc so there is more flexibility.

Take a look at our blogs for a taste of life out this way.

Jan & Eam's News

Jan & Eam's Weather Watch

We don't want to convey a sense that it is some sort of panacea here. We have had our issues settling since we made it to the front of the Permanent Residence line - but there is an opportunity to make an excellent life here if you work at it. We are certainly enjoying the challenge.

Kind regards,

Eamonn & Janet.


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## WhiteRose (Nov 27, 2008)

Hi,

I Don't know about Tronoto but I used to live in Vancouver and is it a WONDERFUL place to live and bring up kids,yes it is expensive but wages are slightly higher than other places so it kind of evens it's self out.

I am moving to Calgary in February from Leeds with my husband and three kids all under 8. It was a toss up between Vancouver and Calgary but he got the Calgary job offer first so that cemented it.

I don't know what the public transoprt system is like in Calgary but in Vancouver it is most excellent with the skytrain that runs every ten minutes and links with buses and the seabus to and from North Vancouver. I'm sure you have reasearched the places you are thinking of to the hilt, but of all the people I know who live or have lived in Canada they say the best two places to live are Calgary and Vancouver.

I hope this helps.


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## IOWgirl (Nov 7, 2008)

Canadadreaming said:


> Hi
> I am 97 % through the process of becoming a Skilled Worker Immigrant with my Family. The clock is now ticking and I have to go to Canada in a year.
> I would like the opinions of others please on the most suitable place to live and work against some of our requirements.
> I am a Senior Engineer in the UK Food Industry, my Wife has experience of Auxiliary Nursing, Export and I.T Office Skillls.Our Kids are 11 and less.
> ...


Hi Mark, I responded to you and it went winging off to a different thread, lol. Anyway, I was mentioning that I had a post on the...Your first job in Canada....thread, that my be of interest to you, Also that I do only get two weeks holiday a year, but that my friend who is in the same field as me, gets four weeks per year. He is union, I am not. My boyfriend, in sales, gets three weeks per year. Good luck,


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## Getting There (Nov 19, 2008)

WhiteRose said:


> Hi,
> 
> I Don't know about Tronoto but I used to live in Vancouver and is it a WONDERFUL place to live and bring up kids,yes it is expensive but wages are slightly higher than other places so it kind of evens it's self out.
> 
> ...


Hi WhiteRose,

You've probably found this already but here's the Calgary Transit website (buses and the C-Train...largely overland Light Rapid Transit rail system with a free fare section in downtown (which we always think is pretty fair) and with routes heading out towards the North West, the North East and South.
Calgary Transit: Calgary's Light Rail Transit Line
You'll find lots of other info on there re schedules and journey planners and so on.

Kind regards,

Eamonn & Janet.


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## spaceprobe (Oct 29, 2008)

The public transport system in Vancouver is very good. There are currently 2 Skytrain lines (with frequencies of every 2-5 minutes, 90 seconds during rush hour on the Expo Skytrain line). A new transit line is opening next year before the 2010 Winter Olympics too! 

Housing prices are more expensive in Vancouver, as you may have already found out, but if you are renting, Calgary actually is slightly more expensive to rent!


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## SczzyBoy (Jan 1, 2008)

Hi,

I've no experience of Toronto or Vancouver so can't comment there. Calgary is a fantastic city and massive change from anything in the UK. It is comfortable and small but you really should be a driver to appreciate this area. I'm sitting here in a bar in Banff because the ski hills are closed due the temperature being less than -30C (-42C this morning) and the view is just stunning. You really have to cross the "sun dog" off your bucket list at some stage!

Calgary public transport? Well - the C-Train (it's a tram not a train) is ok but only runs in 3 directions NW,NE and SE. SW is poorly covered. Against that buses are good and they are nearly always on time. The drivers are courteous and helpful and will typically let you out in between stops if you ask nicely. It's good to say thank you to them as well.

On the vacation? I negotiated UK holiday allowance into my contract so I don't feel disadvantaged. I have noticed quite a lot of people take 1 big break and lots of long weekends throughout the year. Vacation time then seems to stretch out a bit more.

Calgary is one of the nicest places I've ever been and truly the nicest place I have ever worked.


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