# UK pensions



## J0sand

Hi all,

I moved to Germany in 2014 from France where I had lived since 2005. My Wife died and so I thought that i would start again somewhere else. Having moved here I met a German woman and in 2017 got married again. As a Pensioner i recieve an old age pension plus a Mililitary pension.

History lesson over, my questions are as follows.

1. If i take dual or German citizenship will that effect my pensions ?

2. Would the change of citizenship effect my S1 ?

3. is there a platform where these questions are answered officially ?

Kindest regards


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## Bevdeforges

J0sand said:


> 1. If i take dual or German citizenship will that effect my pensions ?
> 
> 2. Would the change of citizenship effect my S1 ?
> 
> 3. is there a platform where these questions are answered officially ?


1. It shouldn't. If you had been working in the UK when you did as a German citizen, you'd still be entitled to the pensions. However, dual citizenship often isn't an option when you're dealing with Germany. The one way around having to give up your "old" nationality formally is to demonstrate your strong ties back to your home country - usually family obligations, etc.

2. I don't believe so, but you'd have to check with the appropriate office in the UK.

3. You can inquire of the agencies that handle your pensions in the UK, but other than the military pension, I doubt that there is a nationality requirement involved.


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## J0sand

Thank you for such a quick response however talking to the appropriate agencies in the UK, nobody seems to be talking from the same page. the same question to several come up with different answers. 
I suppose I will have to wait until the government can make its mind up ref Bexit.

regards


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## kaju

J0sand said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I moved to Germany in 2014 from France where I had lived since 2005. My Wife died and so I thought that i would start again somewhere else. Having moved here I met a German woman and in 2017 got married again. As a Pensioner i recieve an old age pension plus a Mililitary pension.
> 
> History lesson over, my questions are as follows.
> 
> 1. If i take dual or German citizenship will that effect my pensions ?
> 
> 2. Would the change of citizenship effect my S1 ?
> 
> 3. is there a platform where these questions are answered officially ?
> 
> Kindest regards


Both of your pensions will still be paid no matter what you do, but there might be significant tax differences (or not!) if you gained German Citizenship.

It might be possible that if you take German Citizenship (Germany allows dual citizenship with other EU countries although I have no idea if you'd be able to do this during the Brexit transition period) soon, you could keep both. First though, you'd need to be married to a German for at least two years and continually resident in Germany for 3 years.

I suspect you wouldn't be allowed (by Germany) to take German Citizenship and keep British Citizenship once the transition period ends. Germans can take up another citizenship with special permission from Germany if they have particular connections with another country, but I don't think that applies in reverse (to non-Germans). 

Post-Brexit, (if that happens!) I'd expect Germany would require you to renounce British Citizenship if you applied for German Citizenship and the UK is no longer in the EU - it's not hard to do or hugely expensive - Germany does accept that as a reason to allow dual citizenship for a few other countries' citizens on that basis, but it's simple to renounce UK Citizenship and only costs about £372.

Your Old Age Pension would be taxable in Germany either way - although it may not incur any tax depending on the amount.

However, assuming that whatever happened, you ended up with German Citizenship (whether or not you keep your British Citizenship), I suspect that then, (as a German resident too) your Military Pension would also be taxable in Germany - which it wouldn't be if you were not a German Citizen. 

For you, Page 19 of the Double Taxation Convention between the UK and Germany would apply if you were to become a German Citizen - in particular, Article 18, 1 and 2 - especially 2 b) !!! 

https://assets.publishing.service.g...s_amended_by_the_2014_Protocol_-_in_force.pdf

I'll be moving to Germany soon, and my Australian Government Service pension is taxable in Australia, just as yours is in the UK. Age Pensions are almost always taxed in the country that you actually live in - service pensions generally are too, BUT that generally changes if you are both resident in AND a national of, the other country. 

So I can live in Germany with my German wife, but I can't take German Citizenship if I don't want my Government Service Pension taxed in Germany! I get preferential tax (none! ) on my government service pension in Australia, so I don't want to lose that. 

(I'd probably also need to renounce my Australian and UK Citizenship too, if I wanted German Citizenship.) My Australian Age Pension (when I'm old enough!) will still only be taxable in Australia.

So this possible taxation of your UK military pension if you are a German resident and German Citizen might affect you, or it might not - depends on the amount, German tax scales, etc. 

You might wish to seek advice if you think your Military Pension might be taxed by Germany if you took up German Citizenship. 

My Aussie Government Pension is not huge, but it would certainly be enough to be taxed in Germany, and would be added to my partial Australian Age Pension, which is already taxable (assessable for tax, even if no tax is payable) in Germany, as your Age Pension already is.


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## josand

*Brexit*

I have looked into most now and all seemst to be understandable and ok except answers ref my S1.

Having spoken to the relevant offices in the UK, it seems that there are so many variables as to what Brexit will eventually look like, Brexit or no Brexit, soft Brexit or hard Brexit, this Brexit or that Brexit....there is no answer to my Question.

Under what circumstances will my S1 be cancelled ?

regards to all


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## kaju

josand said:


> I have looked into most now and all seemst to be understandable and ok except answers ref my S1.
> 
> Having spoken to the relevant offices in the UK, it seems that there are so many variables as to what Brexit will eventually look like, Brexit or no Brexit, soft Brexit or hard Brexit, this Brexit or that Brexit....there is no answer to my Question.
> 
> Under what circumstances will my S1 be cancelled ?
> 
> regards to all


I don't think anyone really knows. 

If and when Britain leaves the EU there might be an extension of present status for anything up to a couple of years. 

Then again, depending on Brexit/no-deal Brexit, there might be possible transfers into the EU country's system offered, most likely at a cost considering it's not free in Germany.

While Britain wants reciprocal agreements with EU countries after leaving, and they do too, that depends on them both, and partly on the agreement made on the future relationship. 

Even though the EU acts as a whole, individual EU countries have their own systems and may not do the same things for UK Citizens resident in their particular country. 

The current Brexit agreement allows or cover for UK Citizens resident in Germany before Brexit to be continued. But that agreement hasn't passed the UK Parliament, of course. 

A No-deal Brexit would probably mean that S1 cover would immediately stop - but there would logically have to be some understanding by all parties that those resident in the UK and EU would still have to have unbroken cover somehow. Then again, maybe there will be another referendum and the UK will stay in.

Nobody knows.

What seems pretty clear is that whatever happens, you will be allowed to stay but also have health cover from one government or the other! If the S1 arrangement ceases, you'd still have to have health insurance, so the country where you live would have to provide it. In that situation, my guess is that it would be at an income-dependent price in most EU countries, including Germany.

But that situation may never arise! There may be an agreement/legislation that finally gets accepted covering that, as the EU really wants Citizen's Rights protected. And if there is no Brexit, there is no issue, of course.

But no-one really knows.


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