# Help with work and stay visa for US fianc�e already in Uk on normal visitor visa



## Jimmyuk (Jan 26, 2016)

*Help with work and stay visa for US fiancée already in Uk on normal visitor visa*

Hi all,

Great forum and very helpful.

Our story. I've been dating my girlfriend from the US nearly 3 years, June of last year I proposed in Greece and she accepted. I have been travelling over to the US and with our work we have met in Europe etc. We probably are together 8-9 months of the year.

Now my dilemma, I have a young son in the uk to my ex whom I wish to be here for him, my now fiance agreed to come to the uk for 2 years. She was offered a job by a new company setting up in a specialised field of cosmetic surgery, she has extensive skills in this and for the past 15 years has been working for a US company, she is still employed by them doing remote work.

Her future employer in Uk applied to be a sponsor but the company is not fully operational apparently causing some snags as they can't state a wage as its new and turnover will fluctuate. The visa people returned his payment. She has her own money via her US job and savings to support herself, I too have enough savings and earn over the required threshold to support us.


She came over on a normal visitor visa expecting the sponsorship visa to be in place, now she is here we find out she can't work which ain't a problem as we have money to support us. What I'd like to know is the following.

Is there a way we can apply for any sort of visa from within the Uk so she can work, we are prepared to marry even though we had planned to get married in a year or so. We will do it now if need be. Have spoken to two solicitors briefly, one said we can apply for a marriage visa from the uk and she would be able to work, the other said we'd have to get married in the US and apply from there. 

Can we get married in Europe and return? Does it have to be the US?

We don't want to do anything illegal, no disrespect meant with this following sentence but I've heard about lots of people coming from India and then getting married here allowing them to stay.

I'd really appreciate any help as this is very stressful.

Thanks Jim.


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## Kimi2490 (Nov 8, 2012)

To start off, you are not able to switch from a visitor visa to any other visa category within the UK.

On the subject of whether you can marry in a different European country, I am not sure. Even if you did marry in a different European country , your fiancé, now wife, would have to apply for a Spouse visa from USA as you are only allowed to apply for a Spouse visa from your country of residence or passport country, if that makes sense?

Your best bet would be to return to USA with her , get married there (you can marry in USA on a tourist visa, unlike the UK), then she can apply for a spouse visa from USA and move to the UK to be with you once it is approved. She will be able to work etc on her spouse visa.

If anyone has any different advise, do chime in. Good luck


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## Kimi2490 (Nov 8, 2012)

PS- would love to hear more about the cases you have heard of Indians marrying in UK on a tourist visa and staying on. As I find that very surprising, and actually impossible.


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## Jimmyuk (Jan 26, 2016)

Thanks for your advice, so the solicitor who stated we could apply from within the uk was wrong?

As for my comment, I watched a TV program about it some years ago, it showed foreign nationals being interviewed who had traveled from mainly India, not on a marriage visa, got married and were able to stay in the uk. I can't remember the name of the show now.


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## dinosaur_alley (May 25, 2015)

perhaps the people marrying in the UK on a visitor visa and then staying, referenced by the OP, have married non-UK EEA nationals. My, possibly wrong, understanding is that to get an EEA residence card you don't have to leave the UK as it is not a visa and you are not 'switching' visas.

Not a possibility for those marrying UK citizens.

eta:


Jimmyuk said:


> As for my comment, I watched a TV program about it some years ago, it showed foreign nationals being interviewed who had traveled from mainly India, not on a marriage visa, got married and were able to stay in the uk. I can't remember the name of the show now.


Anything from several years ago is irrelevant anyhow. Rules change all the time, and over the past several years have only gotten (significantly) stricter.


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## Kimi2490 (Nov 8, 2012)

Yes, anything pre 2012, should be completely and totally ignored when it comes to immigration.

Even things that are a year or two old now can be outdated. For instance, when I came in on a spouse visa in November 2014, there was no IHS surcharge to pay for a spouse visa. Now, there is.

Concentrate on current rules and be very vary of solicitors and lawyers. They have been known to get it wrong.


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## Jimmyuk (Jan 26, 2016)

Thanks Kim.

Yes the rules change constantly and they make them difficult to understand therefor the need for people to think of lawyers and visa companies who aren't cheap. Supposing we go to the US, get married and they reject her application, does this mean she can't return on a visitor visa?


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## Kimi2490 (Nov 8, 2012)

I think , if your case is as you say, you have nothing to worry about . As long as you produce all the required documents, she may even be back in the UK with you within the month, as you can avail of premium visa services when applying from USA. Again, this is my speculative opinion based on what you have said so far.

As for the scenario of getting rejected, well it is advisable then to apply for a tourist visa before travelling , even thought USA is a tourist visa exempt country. This is because there is always the chance that at the borders the immigration officer might consider her a risk of overstaying ,given that she will have only recently applied for a spouse visa.

Having said all that, I still think your best bet is to fly back to USA, get married as soon as possible (not sure on USA rules on giving notice to registrar and all that), book a premium visa service the day after your wedding and be back together in the UK within a month, all being well.

It can take longer, and you may meet hurdles, but the key is good preparation. Get all your documents prepped and ready , and we are here to advise you on that.


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## brownindian (Feb 15, 2011)

Heard something like this, more than 25 years ago but in the US. Pls let us know how it works, if it still does. Just had my Silver Anniversary,


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## Jimmyuk (Jan 26, 2016)

It just seems silly that she has to leave the uk to apply, logic says she should be able to apply from within the Uk, if unsuccessful then has to leave at end of visitor visa.


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## Crawford (Jan 23, 2011)

Jimmyuk said:


> It just seems silly that she has to leave the uk to apply, logic says she should be able to apply from within the Uk, if unsuccessful then has to leave at end of visitor visa.


You cannot switch to any other visa while in the UK on a visitor visa.

To apply for a spouse visa, she will have to return to the US and apply from there.

Those are the rules.


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## Kimi2490 (Nov 8, 2012)

That's not how it works. She is here on a visitor status. When applying for leave to enter UK as a tourist it is very clear that the person has no right to work, marry or live in the UK, other than for tourism and seeing family/friends etc.

The terms of a tourist visa leave are clear in the UK. The fact that she gets this tourist visa at the border instead of having to apply in advance is a privilege, that's all.


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## Kimi2490 (Nov 8, 2012)

For instance, if she was in the UK on a student visa or a Tier 2 or work visa, basically any other visa than a tourist visa, she could have easily married and applied for a spouse visa from within the UK. 

It is only the tourist visa that is bound with these rules.


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## Jimmyuk (Jan 26, 2016)

Hi all.

Update on our situation.

Returned to the US and got married. Sent spouse visa application on the 18 Feb which they confirmed receipt. Sent all financial info, both of us meet requirements separately or me by myself supporting her.

What I'd like to know is can we check on the status of the application? Or can we pay extra to have it fast tracked even though the application is already at Sheffield? We are wanting to return to the Uk ASAP.

Thanks all.

Jimmy.


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## WestCoastCanadianGirl (Mar 17, 2012)

Jimmyuk said:


> Hi all.
> 
> Update on our situation.
> 
> ...


Sadly, you're at the mercy of the UVI as far as being able to track the application... since July '12, there's been no way to get any idea as to how long it's going to take for Canadian and US based applications to be processed in Sheffield (back in the day, there was a section on the New York page of the UK Embassy that gave people a rough idea as to how long the wait would be, as _all_ Canadian and US applications were processed in NY back then ... just before the law overhaul, standard applications were taking about 15 working days - my own took 12 working days).

Priority processing is available, but given it's been a couple of weeks since the application went in, I'm not sure if it's too late to upgrade.... have a look at this page.

Good luck to you.


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## Jimmyuk (Jan 26, 2016)

Thanks Canadian Girl. They make it so difficult to even understand their forms referring back and forth to different appendixes etc. 

We never sent any pictures with our application which I've read on here that they may help, we are just worried that we gest refused even though we meet all requirements, I just think what if they think our marriage is a scam etc even though it's not. 

Do you think photos make a difference?


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## Kimi2490 (Nov 8, 2012)

Just stumbled back on your post as I got an update on it from having posted previously.

Congratulations on your marriage. And yes, pictures do help strengthen your application. they do not need many, just about a dozen, with a few from your actual wedding day included.

You should have come on here with your supporting documents list before submitting. Like I had said before, most of us have been through it and are here to help.

As it were, there isn't much you can do now. Not having photos in isn't a guaranteed grounds for refusal. Hopefully all the other parts of your application will be perfect. Do let us know how you get on.

Good luck


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## Jimmyuk (Jan 26, 2016)

Hi Kimi.

Thank you for the well wishes.

Yes I wish we had compiled the list and posted it here first. My wife had thought she read everything, sent my bank statements from business account, savings account which also met the amount, my business details, tax letters, letter from her employer in US stating she still employed to work remotely by them. One thing we never did though was send in appendix 2 as we never knew, they emailed asking us to fill in and email back which we did and they confirmed receipt. Suppose we were lucky there as they could have rejected on grounds tey did not have this.

Do you think we should send some photos in via email just in case as we have lots, also photos from my brothers wedding in England two years ago. I've read on here people saying they requested an update via email yet Canadian girl says you can't do this and in their email it says don't contact them but in here people have stated they have had a response, the posts are on the visa timeline thread.

We are legitimate, have easily met the financial requirements in more ways than one, I have a house I own outright I have up for sale as we are relocating as she has a job offer in uk, I enclosed rental agreement of apartment I've rented for 6 months until I find somewhere to buy.

We sent the docs, passport etc for next day delivery to Sheffield, I think our application is straight forward. Realistically what are the time lines?

Thank you.

Jimmy.


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## Kimi2490 (Nov 8, 2012)

Hi Jimmy,

You can only send things in via e mail when they ask you for it first. I don't think you will be able to add anything to your application without being asked for it by them.

Her employment details are unnecessary as they are only concerned with you, the sponsor, meeting the 18,600 threshold.

Yes it does look like you meet the financial and accommodation parts of the application quite well.

Can I ask , what did you put in as proof of relationship? A lot will depend on that third factor.


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## Jimmyuk (Jan 26, 2016)

Thanks,

For proof we enclosed marriage certificate, a letter from us both explaining how long we have been together. Apart from photos we have there's only mine or her flights travelling to see each other.

Hopefully this is enough but I'd hope if they needed more info they would ask.


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## Kimi2490 (Nov 8, 2012)

marriage certificate and tickets for trips taken are good. Logs of Skype / whatsapp and e mail contact are recommended too , to show that for periods you were apart, you were constantly in touch.

They ask sometimes, and sometimes they do not, there is no way of knowing what they will do with any particular application.

Let us know how you get on. Hopefully it will be enough.


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## salix (Apr 27, 2014)

Did you submit the tickets from travelling to see each other? Or did you only submit your marriage certificate? If it's the latter, I'm afraid you may be in trouble.


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## Jimmyuk (Jan 26, 2016)

We only submitted the marriage certificate and letters explaining how long we been together etc, lots of our travel was work related but we were together and they can check my passport for how many times I've been to the US, surely they will ask for this info if needed? They can see on uk airport border records how many times she has been here.


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## Kimi2490 (Nov 8, 2012)

Oh dear, I thought you had put in some flight tickets as well. I think Salix is right, from previous experience, just a marriage certificate will not suffice to prove genuine and subsisting relationship.

Like I said earlier, a dozen photos together , Logs of Skype/ E mails and whatsapp (few for every 6 months apart) to show relationship continuity and tickets of flights taken to see each other regularly are required at a minimum these days to prove relationship trajectory.

I have my fingers crossed for you. It is a waiting game now.


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## Jimmyuk (Jan 26, 2016)

Ok thanks, maybe we could just email them anyway and if they get them they do, nothing ventured nothing gained.


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## nyclon (Apr 3, 2011)

Jimmyuk said:


> Ok thanks, maybe we could just email them anyway and if they get them they do, nothing ventured nothing gained.


You really shouldn't send anything unsolicited. They may or may not contact you for additional documents.


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## Jimmyuk (Jan 26, 2016)

Ok guess we just have to wait. Hopefully when they requested the appendix 2 they would have asked then to provide extra proof.

Do they ways email letting you know it's been processed or can it just arrive via UPS?


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## salix (Apr 27, 2014)

Sometimes you'll get a "decision has been made email", sometimes the documents just come back. All you can do at this point is wait.

To be honest, you're lucky they asked for the Appendix II and didn't just reject your application outright. The norm seems to be to not request missing information.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

The alternative to not submitting Appendix 2 isn't usually rejection but non-acceptance of your application. So you have to reapply with refunded fees.


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## Jimmyuk (Jan 26, 2016)

Is there a reason they usually don't request extra info, I'm presuming its overworked and under staffed. If not it's a pretty poor service to treat it's own citizens and foreign nationals wishing to bring something to this country. Yes we were lucky they asked for it, I am hoping this as a good sign as if any other info was required I'm hoping they would have requested it at the same time. 

Is the application date the date it's submitted and paid for online or the day they receive biometrics etc?


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## Kimi2490 (Nov 8, 2012)

I will be honest with you Jimmy, not asking for further information is just one of the things, they are known to make very obvious mistakes, lose documentation and even overlook evidence that is actually present.

Of course these cases are rare, but they do happen. And the truth is, with any other service, if a fault of the service provider resulted in you having to be separated from a loved one for weeks/months/years, there would be a lot to pay.

However, UKVI does not operate like that. They do not follow a customer service pattern. It just doesn't work that way. I mean in this day and age I can track every stage of my parcel when I order a dress online, yet I have no way of knowing in the months that it takes to process applications, at what stage it is or what is happening?

This process does not exist to make applicants' lives easier. It will help if you look at it like a test- they are testing you, your relationship, your situation, your ability to read instruction and decipher meaning in legal statements and ultimately pass. 

At least that's the way I look at it.


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## Jimmyuk (Jan 26, 2016)

To think, I bet we pay there wages and pensions with our taxes. Oh well just wait and see now.

Does the timeline begin from when it's submitted online and paid for?


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## Kimi2490 (Nov 8, 2012)

For what it's worth , I do not think it is the individual ECO/ Assessors' fault. It's the system. Anti-Immigration culture. They want to reduce numbers. They probably get gold stars for refusing applications and keeping immigration down. They are just doing their jobs. It's the system/culture we should be cross with. But never mind, that is a chin wag for another day.


The timeline begins from the day we give the biometrics I believe.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

My take on the situation is that they are under pressure to reduce immigration and are doing all in their power to refuse applications if they can find a ground for it. While in the past they may have given applicants a second chance by requesting a missing document, they now routinely turn down such applications on the ground that required evidence wasn't submitted, which is within their competence to do. Also the protracted appeal procedure and crippling visa fees act as a deterrent for all but the genuinely committed.


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## Jimmyuk (Jan 26, 2016)

Thanks guys, we have just received two confirmation emails stating its been processed and the other with a UPS tracking number. Just looked at the tracking website and it says delivery date unavailable do I'll look later.

Thanks everyone for all the help, it's very much appreciated. I'll let you know if it's a yes, fingers crossed. 

Squeaky bum time.


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## Kimi2490 (Nov 8, 2012)

excited for you! Do come back and let us know how you got on


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## Jimmyuk (Jan 26, 2016)

Will do.


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## Kimi2490 (Nov 8, 2012)

I can't believe I am saying this but opening your passport and looking for that visa and finally finding it is such an amazing adrenaline rush!

I almost envy you. haha I must be nuts!

When I went to collect my passport it was actually like something from the movies- a text to say the pp was ready for collection at 12.00 PM.... abandoning lunch with the mother to hail a taxi to get to the centre.... finding out the centre's collection times are 9-1 PM only giving me under an hour to collect..... Then realising that it is in fact a Friday so if today's collection time was missed I would have to wait till Monday to know my result... nearly passing out from the heat, excitement, adrenaline, fear in the taxi.... taxi then subsequently getting stuck in school lunch hour traffic just meters from the visa centre.... mum yelling at me to leave the taxi and run to the centre on foot while she pays for it... me abandoning the taxi and running through a crowd of little school kids, nearly tripping over some of them, just to get the visa centre before it closes..... everything after that pretty much a haze.... then hysterical shrieking and laughter when the visa was in my hand.... and I wish I was exaggerating  haha

Good luck!


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## Jimmyuk (Jan 26, 2016)

Sounds crazy Kimi but all the excitement, nerves, what ifs? make it stressful as its your life on hold.

Glad you got yours after the mad dash to the pick up location, waiting another weekend would have been terrible.

Thanks Jimmy.


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## Kimi2490 (Nov 8, 2012)

Oh yes crazy it definitely is!

I have often said, the last 5 years have taken 10 years off my life. I mean relationships are minefields in themselves, add to them immigration complications and separation trauma, it is a surprise many reach the altar!

I was fortunate in that my then fiancé, now husband has always been very supportive and kind. That's all you can do right now.


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## Jimmyuk (Jan 26, 2016)

Bad news I'm afraid, it's a rejection.

They say because we have not submitted proof of our relationship, I sent in 6 months bank statement from my personal account and same for business account, personal account has over 65000 in, business has 30,000. Sent in, they ask for sa302 which was enclosed showing I was paid a total of 23000 which was including dividends for the year ending May 2015.

They asking for payslips etc which I don't have access to as I do everything online with accountant and I'm in the middle of moving. They're asking for proof of who I am, my passport number, tax returns etc were included. Am I suppose to send my passport off with her application?

So sad now.


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## Jimmyuk (Jan 26, 2016)

Not good news, it's been refused on not enough supporting evidence re our relationship plus I had not enclosed payslips which I don't have for May 2014-2015 as my accountant worked everything out and provided a sa302 stating with my wage and dividend I earned 23000 for that year. I had also enclosed my last 6 months banks statements for personal and business accounts. Personal has over 65,000 in and business has 30,000 in but my accounts not due till 31 may 2016. They are also saying no proof of my nationality yet I've lived in the uk all my life and passport number was on form plus all my tax details and bank statements. Am I suppose to send my passport in with the application? They have on appendix 2 will she work in uk but then say this does not count towards visa application.

So sad now.


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## Jimmyuk (Jan 26, 2016)

They are also saying they need proof my wife is divorced but it never asked for proof on appendix two


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## Jimmyuk (Jan 26, 2016)

So its appeal time. Am I best app,hung with my savings alone as a form of supporting her or going the employment route or both as I'd enclosed both already.


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## nyclon (Apr 3, 2011)

You should post the refusal letter. What category did you apply under? Did you include a copy of your passport's bio page? Your wife's employment prospects in the UK are not taken into consideration. Only you can meet the financial requirement.


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## Water Dragon (Jun 28, 2011)

Jimmyuk said:


> They are also saying they need proof my wife is divorced but it never asked for proof on appendix two


If either partner has been married before, they have to show proof that they are free to remarry. It's in the application instructions.


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## Jimmyuk (Jan 26, 2016)

First


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## nyclon (Apr 3, 2011)

If you provide a copy of you passport bio page they can access your details and determine your status.


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## Jimmyuk (Jan 26, 2016)

keep getting sn error on oics, will have to upload later on pc


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## Jimmyuk (Jan 26, 2016)

they dd not send my bank statements back which were from the bank, i can now only print off online statements as in the US. will they have kept my statements ir threw away? they sksk ask fot utr number etc which i provided


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## nyclon (Apr 3, 2011)

Did you send a set of copies of your documents? If not, then they would have kept them. Online statements must be verified as original by your bank. That means every page stamped or a letter verifying authenticity on bank letterhead.


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## Jimmyuk (Jan 26, 2016)

Si went into the bank and they printed off my statements which I sent across. If I can now only access online printed statements can I get them verified in the US by someone.


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## Jimmyuk (Jan 26, 2016)

Hi again, here are the letters I hope they upload


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## Jimmyuk (Jan 26, 2016)

Not sure if you can read the text on pictures

so here goes.


Reading through everything now and we have messed up on a few things. I`ll type out in brief the important parts.

You have applied for an entry clearance as a patner under appendix FM. I have considered your application under paragraph EC-P.1.1 of appendix FM

The decision

1...... EC-P.1.1(c) section S-EC suitability entrance clearance requirements

ECO reply..... I am satisfied you meet requirements.


2....... EC-P.1,1(d) section E-ECP eligibility as a partner.

ECO reply..... refused under EC-P.1,1(d) of appendix FM.... paragraph E-ECP.2.6 & 2.10 plus E-ECP.2.7


We did not submit evidence of our relationship. This we can do as i`ve found IMessages on my ipad beginning May 2014 till January 2016. Unfortunately telephone conversations were always done via Facetime so no charge and no records, we have both had new phones too.

I still have all my flight details in email confirmations, ive probably flew over 6 times a year and she twice a year to Uk plus we have been to Turkey in June last year, we also went to Greece from Turkey where we got engaged. We have plenty of pictures although they aren`t dated.

They say I never provided proof of living accomadation . I enclosed a 6 month rental contract for a flat which i paid up front and the covering letter from the estate agent. Reason for renting is i`m relocating for work so my house which I own outright is up for sale right now. They sent my contract back.

Proof of divorce for my wife... we did not realise she had to enclose divorce papers, we have went and got certified copies of this to send off.

So I think we can meet these requirements satisfactory.



3..... You have stated in CAT A that you meet financial requirements.

ECO refusal...... E-ECP.3.1 of FM appendix

This is where I may struggle.

I went from trading as to a ltd company May 2014, from April 2013 to April 2014, I earned nearly £40,000 that year and all taxes and NI paid.

I earn more than the threshold. Last financial year I earned £23215 from May 2014 to May 2015. I only pay myself a small monthly wage of £700 per month and the rest is paid in dividends. I don't pay it into my account n a monthly basis but in a lump sum at the end of my financial year. I`m a director but realise they class it as self employed.

My financial year this present year will be May 31 so I have not done my accounts. Again I pay myself £700 per month, and will take it as one lump payment. My payslips for this year are all emailed to me by my accountants payroll so I don't have hard copies. I travel with work a lot so all my stuff is online. 

My Sa302 are emailed by my chartered accountant

I sent them my UTR number on my company letterhead but now they ask for two UTR numbers hen I only have one.

They now need 12 month bank statements as I`d sent in 6 months. Again I do my banking online, statements are online and I`m in the US now so cant walk into my bank.

They are asking for a letter from my employer who issued the payslips, I am self employed, they asking for lots of tax stuff which I have no access to while in the US, things like my audited accounts unless my accountant could muster it together and send.

Will they accept email print offs of these documents as I can log into companies house etc and print things off I believe.?


We are considering trying to find a lawyer here in the US to help. 

When we appeal can we pay to have it fast tracked as we need this sorting? Also how long does it usually take?

Thanks all


Depressed Jimmy


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## Jimmyuk (Jan 26, 2016)

Would it be quicker and better option to just re apply using fast track


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## nyclon (Apr 3, 2011)

You need to read through FM 1.7 to understand the requirements for meeting the financial requirement through self/employment. They are detailed and you require at least 1 year's worth of accounts.


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## Crawford (Jan 23, 2011)

You might also like to read the following government document which gives great detail as to the papers/documents which must be presented for self employment income, in addition to documents for marriage/divorce, accommodation evidence, english language etc etc.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/immigra...endix-fm-se-family-members-specified-evidence


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## Jimmyuk (Jan 26, 2016)

I have my first year 14-15 and this years due May.

Is it better to appeal or simply re apply.

I looked at the savings option but I only had 39000 until December when I received more so I ain't had it for 6 months unfortunately.


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## Crawford (Jan 23, 2011)

Jimmyuk said:


> I have my first year 14-15 and this years due May.
> 
> Is it better to appeal or simply re apply.
> 
> I looked at the savings option but I only had 39000 until December when I received more so I ain't had it for 6 months unfortunately.


From reading the refusal letter it would appear you were refused correctly as a) you did not provide proof of divorce; b) you did not provide all documentation to prove self employed income of 18,600 per annum; c) only provided 6 months of banks statements d) did not provide adequate documentation to prove a consistent and ongoing relationship.

Appeals can take up to a year, so, if I was you, I would get myself better prepared and re-apply.

Read the document links we have sent you. You need to show relationship, financial and accommodation proof to qualify for the spouse visa.

How long are you intending to remain in the US?


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## Jimmyuk (Jan 26, 2016)

Crawford said:


> From reading the refusal letter it would appear you were refused correctly as a) you did not provide proof of divorce; b) you did not provide all documentation to prove self employed income of 18,600 per annum; c) only provided 6 months of banks statements d) did not provide adequate documentation to prove a consistent and ongoing relationship.
> 
> Appeals can take up to a year, so, if I was you, I would get myself better prepared and re-apply.
> 
> ...



I have two months left I can stay in the US as only here on visitor visa so I have to leave.

So I can now provide proof of divorce.
Can provide proof of relationship via screen shots from iMessages on iPad that show dates and times, can also enclose photos and plane tickets.

Accommodation I have copy of 6 month rental agreement paid in full with option to go month to month there after.

Finanancial earnings are the harder one as I explained earlier, being in the US I can't access original documents unless my bank would be willing to post and my accountant could do the same, otherwise I'd have to do printouts.

Are there circumstances they accept printouts as there must be lots of people in other countries who can't access original or bank print outs that are stamped.


I've read the links and I'm confusing myself, feeling tired as did not sleep much.

Ps as the visa is refused does this mean my wife can't come to the uk as a visitor?


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## nyclon (Apr 3, 2011)

You need to submit originals or the originals need to be authenticated by the issuer. Again, if you are applying as self-employed there are very specific documents that you need to provide.


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## Crawford (Jan 23, 2011)

Since she has been refused a visa any application for visitor visa is going to be scrutinised as she could be a risk for over staying i.e entering the UK with intent to stay.

She would have to have strong ties to the US showing that she must return.

Since you were refused the visa due to not enough documentation evidence of your financial state I would recommend you do all you can to get original documents and not printed off copies. If this means returning to the UK to organise them, then so be it.


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## Jimmyuk (Jan 26, 2016)

Im going to ring my accountant and bank tomorrow to see if they'll post the things I need.

If not I think we will both return to uk with her as a visitor for 3 weeks to sort things out, then return to US and re apply.

I found this On the website that says you can re apply for a visa even if you have an ongoing appeal., see picture


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## nyclon (Apr 3, 2011)

If you've been refused a visa it's strongly recommended that you apply for a visit visa in advance.


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## Jimmyuk (Jan 26, 2016)

Would she be better off applying for business visitor visa as they seem quicker? She is 30% owner of uk registered business.

Has anyone actually just turned up and been allowed in?

These rules are horrible, keeping genuine people apart especially when you watch on TV how illegals are caught and let go etc.


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## nyclon (Apr 3, 2011)

There is no business visitor visa. If she is coming for business it has to be for specific business related purposes. Visit visas are classified as standard visas for just about all purposes. No matter what her purpose, the point is that she has a visa refusal on her record.


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## Jimmyuk (Jan 26, 2016)

It must have been an older visa I was looking at then. 

If I got a lawyer here in the US, can he notarize anything I print off in front of him to says its genuine? Would the Ukba accept this?

I know a guy in UK who has a partner in Malaysa, she is still married there but separated from her husband. This guy has been dating her for a few years now going over regular and he has a child with her. He could not get a permanent stay visa for her(refused) as he said its because she is not divorced yet however I know she has been to uk to visit him and then goes back.

Unfortunately I don't have his number to contact him.


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## Crawford (Jan 23, 2011)

No-one is saying that she would not be allowed in as a visitor (as a US citizen she does not need a visa to visit the UK). 

However with a refused settlement visa there is the possibility she might be suspected of trying to enter and remain.

So, she needs strong ties to the US to return and get a visitor visa beforehand.


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## nyclon (Apr 3, 2011)

Jimmyuk said:


> It must have been an older visa I was looking at then.
> 
> If I got a lawyer here in the US, can he notarize anything I print off in front of him to says its genuine? Would the Ukba accept this?


No. If documents aren't original they must be authenticated by the issuer.



> I know a guy in UK who has a partner in Malaysa, she is still married there but separated from her husband. This guy has been dating her for a few years now going over regular and he has a child with her. He could not get a permanent stay visa for her(refused) as he said its because she is not divorced yet however I know she has been to uk to visit him and then goes back.
> 
> Unfortunately I don't have his number to contact him.


Everybody's situation is unique and with the recent aim towards reducing immigration border agents are much less lenient.


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## Jimmyuk (Jan 26, 2016)

Thanks guys for the replies, I know I keep going on and on but we are feeling desperate as this was the start of our lives together.

I was reading on a lawyers site that if she gets stopped at Heathrow they can issue her with a one day or one week stay to get her affairs in order, is this true?

I'm hoping my accountant and bank will be able to forward everything to me so we can re apply.

I'm right in assuming we can pay extra to get a new application fast tracked?

Thanks jimmy


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## WestCoastCanadianGirl (Mar 17, 2012)

> Thanks guys for the replies, I know I keep going on and on but we are feeling desperate as this was the start of our lives together.
> 
> I was reading on a lawyers site that if she gets stopped at Heathrow they can issue her with a one day or one week stay to get her affairs in order, is this true?


Only rarely do they offer this and even then, under extenuating circumstances [i.e. it's the exception rather than the norm]. With a refusal on record, I'd think that the Home Office would be reluctant to consider this option at all. 



> I'm hoping my accountant and bank will be able to forward everything to me so we can re apply.
> 
> I'm right in assuming we can pay extra to get a new application fast tracked?


Again, with a refusal on record, her application is going to take _longer than normal_ to process, as the ECO is obliged to more closely scrutinise the application (inquire about the refusal, go over everything with a fine tooth comb etc) so priority processing is strongly dissuaded in such instances (and says as much on the application portal). It'll get her application to the front of the line but _will *not*_ render a faster decision for her. Sorry. 

Good luck to you both.


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## Jimmyuk (Jan 26, 2016)

Ok thanks for that. I wish they treat people fairly and emailed what they require, it's not a cheap fee after all.

Well I'll keep you informed on what happens.

Can't sleep as usual as this is on my mind constantly.


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## Jimmyuk (Jan 26, 2016)

Quick question. On appendix FM 3c about employment. As I'm a sole employee ltd company director I am only required to fill in appendix C as self employed. I mistakenly had filled in appendix A as employed previously.

Il be getting my 12 months of bank statements showing my business account and my personal account I pay my wages into. Most of my utility bills are paid from another account I've had with another bank since I was 17. I have about 15000 in this account which is from years of savings. Do they need to see these bank statements as I'm not using that money to qualify, it's there to pay my bills.

My accountant is posting everything to me, now to sort bank statements.


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## Kimi2490 (Nov 8, 2012)

Hi Jimmy,

Sorry to hear about the refusal. Apologies for my absence, I didn't have access to a computer over this weekend.

Your relationship evidence is not an issue, you can put more in when you re-apply as per my previous posts.

However, as far the self employment document requirements go, I am none the wiser because my husband and I applied via the Cat A route. I am afraid I am not at all knowledgeable on the self employed/savings route.

Joppa and other moderators will be able to help more with that.


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## Jimmyuk (Jan 26, 2016)

Jimmyuk said:


> Quick question. On appendix FM 3c about employment. As I'm a sole employee ltd company director I am only required to fill in appendix C as self employed. I mistakenly had filled in appendix A as employed previously.
> 
> Il be getting my 12 months of bank statements showing my business account and my personal account I pay my wages into. Most of my utility bills are paid from another account I've had with another bank since I was 17. I have about 15000 in this account which is from years of savings. Do they need to see these bank statements as I'm not using that money to qualify, it's there to pay my bills.
> 
> My accountant is posting everything to me, now to sort bank statements.




Thanks Kimi. This financial part is confusing. Not sure if I should start a new thread.

Here is my dilemma 

1... I filled in the financial application as CAT A which is employed. I began my ltd company July 14, financial year ended May 31 2015. 

On reading the notes it seems I have to apply as self employed.

I've just spoke to my accountant and I'm registered as an employed director with HMRC so if I put I'm self employed it will be wrong. 

2.... I called the border agency regarding my bank statements, they have emailed saying they will accept electronic print outs with a supporting letter from the bank to say they are legit. How does the bank know what I've printed to confirm this?
Spoke to the banks main business centre who say they can't send out this letter as they don't know what I'm printing out, but can send out the statements by post, but they don't stamp them, only by going into a branch can they be stamped. This I can't do as I'm in the US.
I'm so stressed now with it all. 

See below email


Thank you for contacting the UK Visas and Immigration International Enquiry
Service.

With regards to your query, if you wish to submit electronic bank
statements these must contain all of the details listed below:

• your name; 
• the account number; 
• the date of the statement; 
• the financial institution’s name and logo; 
• the amount of money available.

In addition, you will need to provide a supporting letter from your bank on
company headed paper, confirming the authenticity of the statements
provided.

Alternatively an electronic bank statement bearing the official stamp of
the bank in question will be accepted. This stamp must appear on every page
of the statement.

We will not accept statements which show the balance in the account on a
particular day as these documents do not show that you hold enough funds
for the full period needed.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

#1 As you are a director of specified limited company, your income can only count as self-employment regardless of your status with HMRC. UKVI has different rules which you must abide by. Show Section 9 of FM1.7 to your accountant to see if they can supply correct documentation. 

#2 Statement sent by your bank by post is original and doesn't need stamping.


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## Jimmyuk (Jan 26, 2016)

Thanks Joppa, it seems strange that they do this re the employment status as my accountant was worried I'd get into trouble with HMRC.

I'll send this to my accountant and see what he says.


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## Jimmyuk (Jan 26, 2016)

Called the border agency again, waste of money and the guy began to get stroppy. Oh well won't do that again.

My accountant said it does appear it is classed as self employed so he will look in more detail tmw. Business banking centre have confirmed they will mail statements and covering letter.

Hopefully I can get it all sorted soon and get back to the UK with my wife.

There should be a government warning on their visa applications saying this could seriously drive you crazy.


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## SySy055 (Jan 9, 2016)

We have a good solicitor we used that pretty much told me no to everything your trying to do above because I thought maybe i could apply from the UK - that was withing the last month. So the answer for sure is no.


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## Jimmyuk (Jan 26, 2016)

Sysy, we realised that we could not apply from uk so ended up coming to the states and still messed it up.

Probably going to get a lawyer tmw, send everything to them to complete and hopefully get a quick decision.


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## Crawford (Jan 23, 2011)

Jimmyuk said:


> Sysy, we realised that we could not apply from uk so ended up coming to the states and still messed it up.
> 
> Probably going to get a lawyer tmw, send everything to them to complete and hopefully get a quick decision.


Have you now fully read and understood the two documents recommended to you:

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa..._FM_1_7_Financial_Requirement_August_2015.pdf

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/immigra...endix-fm-se-family-members-specified-evidence

You omitted a lot of documentation from your first application which resulted in your refusal; and unless you provide all the necessary evidence for the financial, relationship, accommodation aspects you are going to fail again.

You seem in an awful rush to do this - you first wrote to the forum in late January and by mid February had married and sent off your application. 

There is a lot of documentary evidence required to convince the Brit authorities of a genuine and financially viable relationship.

It might help you to do a "checklist" search on this forum to see what most people provide.


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## Jimmyuk (Jan 26, 2016)

I've read it so many times, reason to get back to uk is for my wife to work in a business she has started up with a doctor. We were planning to marry later this year and brought it forward as we thought it was the best way to have her in the uk working as she wasn't going to work illegally.

I have financial in place with accountant.
Have two two years proof of relationship, same flights to same destinations together, our flights to and from the US, found chat messages on iPad 2014 to Jan this year, have not got any on phone as I usually clear FaceTime chat. Have loads of photos, photos at my brothers wedding in 2014 in uk etc. So I'm not worried about the relationship part now.

We were rejected as we rushed into it not reading all the guidance notes to the questions. We are going to hire a solicitor to double check everything and submit it for us, I also have things to sort in the Uk do we want to get back ASAP.


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## SySy055 (Jan 9, 2016)

If you live in the North of England, I can highly recommend our solicitor we just filed our application and she pretty much did an excellent job and was spot on.. Name is Natalie Doland.


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## Jimmyuk (Jan 26, 2016)

I am from the north, moving to the south but I'm stuck in the US right now.


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