# Hola :D Heating Advice!



## xicoalc (Apr 20, 2010)

Hi Guys & Gals,

Missed ya! Sorry, its been a few months but with the glorious summer and heavy work commitments I have hardly turned on the computer! I hope you are all well!

So then.. brain picking time...

As winter is rapidly approaching I want to buy another heater. I always had air con that heats which was cosey but last year moved house and it was a little chilly. I have a butane fire (one of thsoe things on wheels) and find it very good. I was thinking of buying an additional one until someone suggested a parafin heater as an efficient alternative.

I looked at some in the local DIY shop and the cost is similar to buy as that of a butane heater. A bottle of butane lasts a couple of weeks in winter and costs around 12 euros. A bottle of 5l parafin costs around 30 but the man in the shop couldnt tell me the burn time on 5l :S

So does anyone have any experience, what are the pros and cons? Whats the most economical to run and gives teh best heat.. oh yeah and are there any electric ones that are cheaper (doubt it!)?

Thanks guys

TTFN
Steve


----------



## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Glad you're around again, we missed you!

I swear by those butane heaters on wheels, cheap, quick and easy to use. Altho they can cause condensation, altho I never had a problem with that. I used to have one of those infra red heaters in the bedroom and put it on when I got up and went to bed, which did the job and a couple of oil filled radiators which I only used to dry washing as they were expensive to run. 

Jo xxx

Jo xxx


----------



## xicoalc (Apr 20, 2010)

jojo said:


> Glad you're around again, we missed you!
> 
> I swear by those butane heaters on wheels, cheap, quick and easy to use. Altho they can cause condensation, altho I never had a problem with that. I used to have one of those infra red heaters in the bedroom and put it on when I got up and went to bed, which did the job and a couple of oil filled radiators which I only used to dry washing as they were expensive to run.
> 
> ...


Thanks Jo!

Missed you too jeje.. its crazy how time flies, and since doing my TEFL course I have been soooo busy with so many things! Still, ill try to make more time to put in an appearance!

Thanks for the advice. I have to say my trusty old butane on castors has served me well and with the local DIY shop promoting them at 45€ i think ill just buy another but i am so curious about these parafin ones...


----------



## Happyexpat (Apr 4, 2011)

I am in a similar position to you in that I am looking at alternative ways to heat our Finca. We have a large open fire where 90% of the heat goes up the chimney and aircon as a background heat source if we need it. Both very expensive to run. This is what I have found out.
Portable butane heaters are probably the cheapest to buy and run but put out a very high moisture content.
Paraffin heaters come in a number of forms, simple ones, cheap to buy, expensive to run and not very efficient Pressure fed ones, far more efficient but still expensive to run and finally pressure fed and fan assisted, unfortunately still expensive but very efficient in terms of output so there may be a balance there.
Anything electric, forget it really but oil filled radiators seem the best of a bad bunch.
The best bet, if you can do it, seems to be a cast iron wood burner put in an original fireplace with at least 30% of it's structure projecting into the room. It can be set to slow burn or fast burn depending on your needs and wood, around here, costs about 140 euros per ton or you can get it yourself. These stoves will burn almost anything.
There is another alternative we have seen but only suitable if you live in the right area. This is an almond shell burner. It works on the gases and oil produced by the shells and burns like an industrial furnace. At a cost of 2 euros for a large sack it is the most efficient heater I have seen but it really is ugly and you don't see any fire except through a small hole.


----------



## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

steve_in_spain said:


> Hi Guys & Gals,
> 
> Missed ya! Sorry, its been a few months but with the glorious summer and heavy work commitments I have hardly turned on the computer! I hope you are all well!
> 
> ...


Hey there Steve in Spain,
I was wondering whether TEFL had killed you off!
Glad you've found life outside the forum, but do join in now and again 'cos we miss your posts!
PS Don't know nuffink about parafin or gas heaters, sorry


----------



## Cazzy (Nov 23, 2008)

We are installing a wood burner with a back boiler to run rads this year, you can order them from the UK for about 600 sterling, then just get the rads and the pipe here.


----------



## 90199 (Mar 21, 2010)

Hello Steve,

I wondered where you had gone. I remember paraffin heaters from years ago, they used to pong something awful and discolour the wall paper, perhaps the modern day ones are better.

Totally off topic, but paraffin is excellent for cleaning bicycles


----------



## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Paraffin heaters give off as much water as a butane heater so you won't save on condensation but I do feel that butane tends to burn a little cleaner so less in the way of discoloured walls/ceilings, etc. If you use the catalytic type (the ones where you don't see the burners) take care to keep it clean and out of any dusty environment even when it is not in use because the catalyst clogs up with dust and the stove is rendered useless.

Our log-burner exhausts through a sort of heat exchanger and thus heats the two bedrooms above the lounge with either a straight-forward convected heat or via a two speed fan (this also pushes heat out into the lounge-diner). In addition the flue cavity has a vent into the attic keeping that warm and dry.

There are those who will comment that log-burners put smoke and other waste products (e.g. particulates) into the air but, if you were to see the almost constant blue haze in the air from where olive-tree trimmings are being burnt on the mountainsides you would realise that our burning the wood in our log-burner is at a higher temperature (less smoke and particulates) and more environmentally friendly and efficient, especially as the heat is being used rather than going to waste.


----------



## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

We use a gas stove in the living room but with propane rather than butane. Never quite sure what the difference is but it's cheaper and gives off less condensation apparently.

We used to use oil-filled radiators in other rooms, but last winter we replaced them with radiant halogen heaters which you only turn on while you are in the room as they give instant warmth. Our Jan-Feb electricity bill was down by about €50 on the previous year.


----------



## Happyexpat (Apr 4, 2011)

Alcalaina said:


> We use a gas stove in the living room but with propane rather than butane. Never quite sure what the difference is but it's cheaper and gives off less condensation apparently.
> 
> We used to use oil-filled radiators in other rooms, but last winter we replaced them with radiant halogen heaters which you only turn on while you are in the room as they give instant warmth. Our Jan-Feb electricity bill was down by about €50 on the previous year.


Now there is thought re the halogen heaters but are they not a direct heat source rather than space heating. In other words if your are in front of it you are warm but otherwise not?


----------



## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Happyexpat said:


> Now there is thought re the halogen heaters but are they not a direct heat source rather than space heating. In other words if your are in front of it you are warm but otherwise not?


Exactly.


----------



## lynn (Sep 25, 2008)

We're about to move to a new house which has eco heaters in the bedrooms. This is a flat plate that's attached to the wall. Runs off electricity, but supposed to be very cheap to run.... anyone have any experience of these and whether they are any good??

ECO-heater - Electric Panel Wall Mounted Heaters


----------



## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

lynn said:


> We're about to move to a new house which has eco heaters in the bedrooms. This is a flat plate that's attached to the wall. Runs off electricity, but supposed to be very cheap to run.... anyone have any experience of these and whether they are any good??
> 
> ECO-heater - Electric Panel Wall Mounted Heaters


Yes, we have two but rarely use them. They just take the chill off the room; unless you leave them on all the time they don't do much. In a small room like a bathroom they are OK.

The large ones are 600 W and the smaller ones are 450 W I think - check the price per kW on your electricity bill and you can estimate what it will cost you.


----------



## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

lynn said:


> We're about to move to a new house which has eco heaters in the bedrooms. This is a flat plate that's attached to the wall. Runs off electricity, but supposed to be very cheap to run.... anyone have any experience of these and whether they are any good??
> 
> ECO-heater - Electric Panel Wall Mounted Heaters


Yes we've had them. They're rubbish!

We had one in a separate WC that measured 6ft x 3ft and it barely raised the temperature by more than a couple of degrees. About all it did was prevent the cistern freezing in really cold weather. To feel any direct warmth you had to be within a few inches of the front panel.

Think about it - most electric heaters especially those that don't glow (i.e. no electricity is wasted by creating light) e.g. oil-filled radiators, convert almost all of the electricity consumed into heat and are probably the more efficient of electric heaters. So if it takes a 3 kw heater to heat the air in the room and get that up to temperature and heat the walls so that they are not blotting up heat, then you are not going to get much out of a mere 400w. You may feel warmer standing in front of a _radiant_ heater but as soon as you move away from the direct line of the fire's emissions, you will feel cold because radiant heat does not heat the air it passes through. A _convector_, on the other hand does heat the air so that eventually, provided the room is well insulated, the room will feel warmish.


----------



## lynn (Sep 25, 2008)

baldilocks said:


> Yes we've had them. They're rubbish!
> 
> We had one in a separate WC that measured 6ft x 3ft and it barely raised the temperature by more than a couple of degrees. About all it did was prevent the cistern freezing in really cold weather. To feel any direct warmth you had to be within a few inches of the front panel.
> 
> Think about it - most electric heaters especially those that don't glow (i.e. no electricity is wasted by creating light) e.g. oil-filled radiators, convert almost all of the electricity consumed into heat and are probably the more efficient of electric heaters. So if it takes a 3 kw heater to heat the air in the room and get that up to temperature and heat the walls so that they are not blotting up heat, then you are not going to get much out of a mere 400w. You may feel warmer standing in front of a _radiant_ heater but as soon as you move away from the direct line of the fire's emissions, you will feel cold because radiant heat does not heat the air it passes through. A _convector_, on the other hand does heat the air so that eventually, provided the room is well insulated, the room will feel warmish.



Best not give up on the hot water bottles then 

..... and my gorgeous selection on hand knitted woollies for all the family


----------



## Stuart villa martin (Jun 1, 2011)

Be careful of portable gas heaters ,they are prone to causing dampness ,


----------



## Happyexpat (Apr 4, 2011)

Seems to me that the wood burning stove seems to be the best option after all.....


----------



## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Happyexpat said:


> I am in a similar position to you in that I am looking at alternative ways to heat our Finca. We have a large open fire where 90% of the heat goes up the chimney and aircon as a background heat source if we need it. Both very expensive to run. This is what I have found out.
> Portable butane heaters are probably the cheapest to buy and run but put out a very high moisture content.
> Paraffin heaters come in a number of forms, simple ones, cheap to buy, expensive to run and not very efficient Pressure fed ones, far more efficient but still expensive to run and finally pressure fed and fan assisted, unfortunately still expensive but very efficient in terms of output so there may be a balance there.
> Anything electric, forget it really but oil filled radiators seem the best of a bad bunch.
> ...


We have a wood fire with cassette and it works a treat. There are vents in 4 places upstairs too, but we do have two radiators in the living room from gas central heating too. It faces north and is a bit dark too, so the wood fire isn't enough to ward off the cold of the Sierra Madrileña.


----------



## VFR (Dec 23, 2009)

Air conditioning units that can also switch to heat (most) are the most efficient form of heaters that use electric (goggle it)
They can & do heat a room very quickly without producing any moisture, no soot, no cleaning worth speaking about & of course can cool in the summer.


----------



## Cazzy (Nov 23, 2008)

lynn said:


> We're about to move to a new house which has eco heaters in the bedrooms. This is a flat plate that's attached to the wall. Runs off electricity, but supposed to be very cheap to run.... anyone have any experience of these and whether they are any good??
> 
> ECO-heater - Electric Panel Wall Mounted Heaters


They are rubbish, you need them on all the time to keep slightly warm, then they work out expensive. All of ours cracked after a couple of years.


----------



## xicoalc (Apr 20, 2010)

Thanks for all the advice guys. tbh i dont want to go to the expense of installing things like central heating, however nice it might be, because i rent the house, so portable is the way to go but I think maybe a trusty old butane one will be how i move forward... Thanks again!


----------



## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Cazzy said:


> They are rubbish, you need them on all the time to keep slightly warm, then they work out expensive. All of ours cracked after a couple of years.


Ours too. And how on earth do you get them off the wall? Once they are in, they appear to be there for good; there is nothing to unscrew.


----------



## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Alcalaina said:


> Ours too. And how on earth do you get them off the wall? Once they are in, they appear to be there for good; there is nothing to unscrew.


Ours were just hung on the screws using the keyhole shaped holes in the back. You may find that they have stuck to the paint and require a short sharp tap on the bottom in an upwards direction.


----------

