# Moving to Barcelona. A few questions and bit of info please



## Elroque (Jul 20, 2014)

Hi everyone,
I am after a bit of advice and info really smile emoticon
I have lived in Tenerife for nearly 10 years. We moved back to the UK in 2013 for personal reasons however we are now looking to make our new life in Barcelona. 

As I only have experience of living in the Canaries I am very interested in experiences and opinions of the peninsular. Barcelona to be precise.

How do you enjoy living there? How do you find the locals? 
In general, do you like life there?

Also I speak Spanish but realise Catalan is different. How much of an issue is this and how did you all get on?

Would really appreciate as much input as possible, The UK was always just to be a stop gap between Canary islands and Mainland so now comes the planning for the next big move. Thanks!


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## Helenameva (Aug 15, 2014)

Do you mean Barcelona the city or the general area? If you mean the city, you will get on fine with Spanish, as most people do. But if you mean to live outside the city, you will survive with Spanish very easily but if you want to ingratiate yourself with your neighbours you would do well to learn Catalan. 

Everybody without exception has been very welcoming to me. Admittedly my wife is Catalan and maybe that has helped to smooth the waters a bit but I don't think much, it is just that they are good people in the main - happy, friendly, relaxed, welcoming. I know Pesky Wesky has another view of Catalonia that she might give here too.

I live in the countryside about 45 minutes from the centre and it is great for me. Barcelona is a great place to visit and just on our doorstep (close but far enough away).

I don't have any experience with other parts of the country but I am happy fate dropped me here.


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## Elroque (Jul 20, 2014)

Thank you so much, and actually has eased the slight concern that a friend gave me when she said that unless you speak Catalan you are, effectively, screwed. I had thought it seemed a little extreme so your response is very comforting.

Taking price and living space into account we would most likely live a little outside the city, however my work would be based more in the city itself so I wouldn't want to live too far out.

That is good to hear that the locals are generally (if one can generalise) happy, nice people. Very much like the Canarians and how I imagined the mainlanders to be as well.

Thanks again, much appreciated!


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## kimuyen (Aug 8, 2013)

Elroque said:


> Hi everyone,
> ...we are now looking to make our new life in Barcelona...
> 
> How do you enjoy living there? How do you find the locals?
> ...


We (husband, a 5-year old boy and I) moved to Barcelona from the US last July. Our son is going to an international school so we live in a more residential neighborhood where we can walk 20 minutes to the school. We are north of the city in the Sarria-St Gervasi area. We don't deal much with tourists but we are not isolated from the central. We are within 10 minutes walk to 2 ferrocarrils stations and trains to the north (San Cugat, Terrassa, etc.). We decided not to own a car and have managed fine (although when we were lugging a few bottles of wine, we doubted our decision). Although I have got yelled at by vendors for touching their fruits, I find most of the people we have encountered here are decent and kind enough (we are still not used to how little personal space is allowed here but I guess it is not just a Catalonia thing). We do enjoy living here. 

The Language - I have to admit that this is the part that I don't like much about Barcelona. I thought as part of Spain, government offices are obligated to have both Spanish and Catalan but that is not the case in Barcelona (and much of Catalonia). The city hall we went to had only Catalan. Even the library, they send out activities and workshops but in Catalan only. Of course that makes me feel excluded (precisely their intention). I could understand if private businesses choose to have Catalan only but government offices should serve non-Catalan Spanish people as well by displaying it official language in all offices. My Spanish is still very broken but I am able to guess lots of things in Catalan based on what I know in Spanish. I thing once I open my mouth, they will know that I am a guiri. I don't think they expect me to speak Catalan. I do make an effort though with my neighbors and porter and have learned a thing or two from them.

Maybe pay a visit and see if you could live here and enjoy it.


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## Helenameva (Aug 15, 2014)

I think the language barrier doesn't need to be a barrier at all if you embrace the fact that you are in Catalonia and people speak Catalan. I think it must be like living in parts of Wales; of course you can speak English and you will be understood but if you want to be embraced with a big fat hug and a kiss on top then learn to speak Welsh. And Catalan is more widely spoken and much easier to learn, especially if you have a good base by learning Spanish first.

When I speak Catalan to anybody, almost always they reply in Spanish. It isn't that they want to keep the language to themselves, it's just that their brains are wired from an early age to accept that only Catalans are bothered enough to learn and speak Catalan. And to be honest, there is little excuse for not learning if you are planning to stay here for the long haul. Just the basics if you are here short term would get you a nice smile. 

There is a free website Parla.cat which has a very comprehensive and entertaining learning programme. You can go through it at your own pace, with or without an online tutor. You can access it from anywhere in the world. Plus there are classes throughout Catalonia where you can learn very cheaply (15 euros for 40 hours of tuition) - see Consorci per a la Normalització Lingüística - CPNL - Consorci per a la Normalització Lingüística - CPNL


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## Elroque (Jul 20, 2014)

Thanks so much for the replies. Interesting to know that official things are written only in Catalan, but the pre-warning is good so thank you! 
Thankfully my Spanish is pretty good. It was very good at one point (after all those years in Tenerife I should hope it would be haha), but it is going rusty here so need to get onto using it more.
We also have a little boy who will be around the same age as yours Kimuyen when we move. And then he will have a year before starting school, although a couple of mornings a week at a pre-school would probably benefit him.

It's funny about the language thing as I likened it to Welsh as well when discussing with my husband. Now THAT is a hard language to learn! 

Thanks so much!


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## mike kelly (Aug 12, 2009)

If you have children, be aware that all public schools teach in Catalan only.


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## Justina (Jan 25, 2013)

I can understand the desire to preserve the language, but whether or not they become independent in the future, I find it irrational not to teach Spanish too. So inward looking and meantime the rest of Spain is in a flurry to teach English.


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## Justina (Jan 25, 2013)

Sorry,to learn English.


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## mike kelly (Aug 12, 2009)

Lots of official documents are also only available in Catalan, this is especially the case in any documents relating to hospitals or medical services.


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## mickbcn (Feb 4, 2013)

mike kelly said:


> If you have children, be aware that all public schools teach in Catalan only.


This is FALSE!!!! you are liying, in the catalan schools the children learn catalan and spanish,and when they finish the classes their knowledge of spanish is similar or even better than the children of other regions of Spain (source of the spanish government).
I suggest you that before give one opinion you must have true information, not the kind of informations of the some spanish newspapers like El Mundo, ABC, La Razón etc ,etc,or the tv channels like Intereconomia,13tv,Telemadrid,etc ,etc.


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## mickbcn (Feb 4, 2013)

Justina said:


> I can understand the desire to preserve the language, but whether or not they become independent in the future, I find it irrational not to teach Spanish too. So inward looking and meantime the rest of Spain is in a flurry to teach English.


Same answer for you, when we will be independents we will follow teaching spanish too, we are independentists..not stupids.


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## mickbcn (Feb 4, 2013)

After our independence tha catalan schools will teach, catalan ,english,and spanish...in this order.


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## mike kelly (Aug 12, 2009)

there is no need to be offensive and rude. Also, don't accuse people of lying


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

mike kelly said:


> Lots of official documents are also only available in Catalan, this is especially the case in any documents relating to hospitals or medical services.


I understand that you can request them in Spanish if you wish.

We have a similar problem here with Valenciano but it's really not that hard to decypher (Valenciano and Catalan are quite similar).


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## Helenameva (Aug 15, 2014)

mike kelly said:


> there is no need to be offensive and rude. Also, don't accuse people of lying


I'm not sure mickbcn was being offensive, just trying to correct the inaccuracy in your post. Spanish is taught in public schools, and to a very high standard. It's a myth perpetuated by some of the media that it isn't and I can understand why mickbcn, as a Catalan, might get fed up of correcting this inaccuracy, as you hear it all the time.


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## mike kelly (Aug 12, 2009)

I never said that public schools do not teach Spanish, I said that they teach in Catalan only. Teaching Spanish and teaching in Spanish are two quite different things.


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## mike kelly (Aug 12, 2009)

snikpoh said:


> I understand that you can request them in Spanish if you wish.


you can request them in Spanish alright but you won't get them


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## Helenameva (Aug 15, 2014)

mike kelly said:


> I never said that public schools do not teach Spanish, I said that they teach in Catalan only. Teaching Spanish and teaching in Spanish are two quite different things.


Well, to teach Spanish, surely you have to speak some Spanish? 

I understand your point but it seems a bit moot. Catalan teachers teaching Catalan students are bound to use Catalan to communicate if something isn't understood in the Spanish classroom. But generally they must speak Spanish if that is the subject they are learning. It was certainly like that when I learned Spanish in England; generally we were taught and conversed in Spanish, but occasionally we would have to do something in English so that it could be understood better. 

Appreciate that a lot of Catalan kids won't learn Spanish at home so they learn the language only at school. Thus, the teacher has to articulate in Catalan to be understood better. And because they learn from scratch in the classroom it is said that their Spanish is better because they don't pick up slang or bad habits, as somebody would who has learnt from their parents and peers.


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## mike kelly (Aug 12, 2009)

What I mean is that Catalan is the language through which all subjects are taught, with of course the exception of natural languages. For example, teachers will as far as possible and practical teach the French class through French, the English class through English and the Spanish class through Spanish.

Subjects such as Maths, Science, History are all taught through Catalan using Catalan language textbooks.


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## mickbcn (Feb 4, 2013)

mike kelly said:


> there is no need to be offensive and rude. Also, don't accuse people of lying


My apology if I has been ofensive was not my intention,but I hate when some person attack us without the knowledge of the situation here in Catalonia and tell things that are not true,despite I can see you are living here,(maybe you are living in a spanish bubble),there are a lot of people living here in the same situation,are people who never feel happy don't mind wherever they live,but the problem is not in Catalonia or Spain or other countries,the problem is in their mind.
And sorry,for my words, I dont want attack you,specially because you are not spanish.


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## mickbcn (Feb 4, 2013)

snikpoh said:


> I understand that you can request them in Spanish if you wish.
> 
> We have a similar problem here with Valenciano but it's really not that hard to decypher (Valenciano and Catalan are quite similar).


Not only are similar languages, is the SAME language,despite the spanish governments saying the oposite.
In 1230 king Jaume I after the expulsion of the moors Valencia and Balearic islands was repoblated with people from Catalonia specially from the province of Lleida ,today after near 800 years the language from Valencia is very similar to the catalan spoked in Lleida,
(Lérida for the spaniards).If you are fluent in medieval catalan you can read the Llibre dels Feits,writed for this medieval king.;-).http://www.raco.cat/index.php/QuadernsPregonerUrgell/article/viewFile/246327/330053


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

mike kelly said:


> What I mean is that Catalan is the language through which all subjects are taught, with of course the exception of natural languages. For example, teachers will as far as possible and practical teach the French class through French, the English class through English and the Spanish class through Spanish.
> 
> Subjects such as Maths, Science, History are all taught through Catalan using Catalan language textbooks.


Some schools here offer two streams - Spanish and Valencian. You can then choose which stream to take for those subjects (Maths, Social or Natural Sciences etc.)

I think each school will be different although in Catalunia I understand they are slightly more fanatical about their language.


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## mickbcn (Feb 4, 2013)

snikpoh said:


> Some schools here offer two streams - Spanish and Valencian. You can then choose which stream to take for those subjects (Maths, Social or Natural Sciences etc.)
> 
> I think each school will be different although in Catalunia I understand they are slightly more fanatical about their language.


Yes, maybe we are more "fanatical",because the language is the root and the glue of our culture without the language we are dead,and the spanish government know it very well ,for this reason the regional government of Valencia offer the 2 streams,however there are thousands and thousands of valencians that want to receive their classes in valenciano and they can't, no are proffesors availables, hehe.they don't want the repeat the same mistake in Valencia like in Catalonia.
Here in Catalonia there are hundreds and hundreds of valencian teachers (I have one room rented to one of this teachers) only in my small city there are more than 30,for this reason I know very well this history, this teachers must go here to teach because in Valencia don't find job. (despite they speak valenciano ;-)) the Generalitat de Catalunya don't have problems to give they jobs.


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## mike kelly (Aug 12, 2009)

snikpoh said:


> I think each school will be different


All public schools teach only in Catalan (except as mentioned when teaching languages). There is a small number of very expensive private schools in Barcelona which teach in English or some other language (usually French or German).

All "concertado" (Catholic) schools also teach exclusively in Catalan.

As a parent, you will need to be able to understand and speak Catalan, otherwise you can't help your kids with their homework.


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## mickbcn (Feb 4, 2013)

Yes, I can see that receive classes in catalan is a problem,in spanish is not problem,in Poland don't have this problem,or in Danmark,or in Norway,or Hungary,we (the independentist)if the next 27th of september have the majority this problem will be finished,forever.;-)


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## Horlics (Sep 27, 2011)

Mick,

It's not only the Spanish governments saying it, I asked some friends who are from Valencia if Catalan and valenciano are the same and they said no.

I don't care either way, I am just saying what some of them tell me.

When you independentists erect your border controls I am sure your tiny country will become much less popular as a place for outsiders to live, so then it won't be a problem at all.

Have you decided on a currency or are you going to be like Scotland and choose not to be independent on that matter?



mickbcn said:


> Not only are similar languages, is the SAME language,despite the spanish governments saying the oposite.
> In 1230 king Jaume I after the expulsion of the moors Valencia and Balearic islands was repoblated with people from Catalonia specially from the province of Lleida ,today after near 800 years the language from Valencia is very similar to the catalan spoked in Lleida,
> (Lérida for the spaniards).If you are fluent in medieval catalan you can read the Llibre dels Feits,writed for this medieval king.;-).http://www.raco.cat/index.php/QuadernsPregonerUrgell/article/viewFile/246327/330053


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Horlics said:


> Mick,
> 
> It's not only the Spanish governments saying it, I asked some friends who are from Valencia if Catalan and valenciano are the same and they said no.
> 
> ...


but it IS the same language - there are small differences in vocab, in the way that there are differences between British & American English, & Spanish & South American Spanish

my daughters at school here, will often have to read set books for exams, printed in catalán if there is no valenciano translation available

if they were different languages, surely the schools wouldn't expect them to be able to read catalán, when they speak, & study in, valenciano.....


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## Horlics (Sep 27, 2011)

That's interesting and more definitive than any answer I have ever had from a local here, although I have only asked 3, I think.

The fact that they are so determined to consider it a different language despite only minor differences says a lot about the psyche of the people who want to be recognised as somehow different than others. That said, I find the people here much less obsessive about the language than the Catalans, but then most I have discussed it with are against an independent Catalunya.



xabiachica said:


> but it IS the same language - there are small differences in vocab, in the way that there are differences between British & American English, & Spanish & South American Spanish
> 
> my daughters at school here, will often have to read set books for exams, printed in catalán if there is no valenciano translation available
> 
> if they were different languages, surely the schools wouldn't expect them to be able to read catalán, when they speak, & study in, valenciano.....


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## mickbcn (Feb 4, 2013)

Maybe this video will help you to understand the situation in Catalonia.


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## mickbcn (Feb 4, 2013)

And this other video.


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## Helenameva (Aug 15, 2014)

Horlics said:


> That's interesting and more definitive than any answer I have ever had from a local here, although I have only asked 3, I think.
> 
> The fact that they are so determined to consider it a different language despite only minor differences says a lot about the psyche of the people who want to be recognised as somehow different than others. That said, I find the people here much less obsessive about the language than the Catalans, but then most I have discussed it with are against an independent Catalunya.


I think you have it the wrong way round - Valencians prefer to call it Valencian and are trying to ostracize themselves from Catalonia, rather than the Catalans pushing them away. See here - Valencian language controversy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Valencians are as patriotic as Catalans and are determined to ensure that they don't get swallowed up into Catalonia. So by calling the same language different names they can try to keep themselves separated. _Politically, language separatists claim it is feared that placing Valencian as a dialect of Catalan will put Valencia in a vulnerable position in front of Catalonia._

That's my take on it anyway.


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## Horlics (Sep 27, 2011)

It's confirmed what I already knew, it's all about greed.



mickbcn said:


> http://youtu.be/yVlQXXk_cZc
> Maybe this video will help you to understand the situation in Catalonia.


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## Horlics (Sep 27, 2011)

I agree with you. Nothing I said is opposition to that.



Helenameva said:


> I think you have it the wrong way round - Valencians prefer to call it Valencian and are trying to ostracize themselves from Catalonia, rather than the Catalans pushing them away. See here - Valencian language controversy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Valencians are as patriotic as Catalans and are determined to ensure that they don't get swallowed up into Catalonia. So by calling the same language different names they can try to keep themselves separated. _Politically, language separatists claim it is feared that placing Valencian as a dialect of Catalan will put Valencia in a vulnerable position in front of Catalonia._
> 
> That's my take on it anyway.


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## Elroque (Jul 20, 2014)

Wowsers. Just caught up.
Thank you for all the posts. I hadn't realised it was such a "controversial" subject :/. But good to get everyone's takes on it.
I suppose it will be similar to the Canaries in a way as they have a strong desire for independence (unless the world cup is on  ) and they have a different language, slightly, to castillian. So maybe it won't notice so much for us,....hopefully.
Thank you


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## mike kelly (Aug 12, 2009)

mickbcn said:


> http://youtu.be/yVlQXXk_cZc
> Maybe this video will help you to understand the situation in Catalonia.


Very interesting, is this in any way connected to Quatar sponsoring FC Barcelona? Muslim groups in Barcelona receive a lot of help from pro-independence politicans if they agree to promote Catalan independence among their brethern. It is very noticable how much higher the number of Muslim immigrants in Catalonia is compared to other parts of Spain. It is also planned to convert Barcelona's only bull fighting stadium (monumental) into a large mosque. 

Qatar quiere una gran mezquita en la plaza de toros de Barcelona | Catalu?a | EL MUNDO

Could well be that some quatari money is helping the pro-independence movement.


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## mickbcn (Feb 4, 2013)

Ha ,ha,ha. OK as I can see you don't have seen the videos,as we say "no hi ha pitjor cec que qui no hi vol veure" No are worst blind than who don't want to see.


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## mickbcn (Feb 4, 2013)

El Mundo??????? hahaha, you don'need to say nothing more.One of the worst fascist newspapers in Spain anticatalan 100X100.


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## mike kelly (Aug 12, 2009)

One thing about the video, the pro-independence people say that the independence movement is not about economics, then they proceed to talk about money, cutbacks etc. Personally, the more I listen to the arguments of those in favour of Catalan independence, the less I understand.

Mick, since you don't like El Mundo, how about La Vanguardia?

¿Una 'megamezquita' en la Monumental de Barcelona?


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## Horlics (Sep 27, 2011)

Mick,

I skimmed it, I caught about 30-40% of it. I will be going back to watch it all.



mickbcn said:


> Ha ,ha,ha. OK as I can see you don't have seen the videos,as we say "no hi ha pitjor cec que qui no hi vol veure" No are worst blind than who don't want to see.


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## Horlics (Sep 27, 2011)

I am now pondering signing up to parla.cat! 

I keep thinking it would be nice to know some. Can I commit 45 mins ish a day. Hmmm

Thanks for the links. Excellent stuff.



Helenameva said:


> I think the language barrier doesn't need to be a barrier at all if you embrace the fact that you are in Catalonia and people speak Catalan. I think it must be like living in parts of Wales; of course you can speak English and you will be understood but if you want to be embraced with a big fat hug and a kiss on top then learn to speak Welsh. And Catalan is more widely spoken and much easier to learn, especially if you have a good base by learning Spanish first.
> 
> When I speak Catalan to anybody, almost always they reply in Spanish. It isn't that they want to keep the language to themselves, it's just that their brains are wired from an early age to accept that only Catalans are bothered enough to learn and speak Catalan. And to be honest, there is little excuse for not learning if you are planning to stay here for the long haul. Just the basics if you are here short term would get you a nice smile.
> 
> There is a free website Parla.cat which has a very comprehensive and entertaining learning programme. You can go through it at your own pace, with or without an online tutor. You can access it from anywhere in the world. Plus there are classes throughout Catalonia where you can learn very cheaply (15 euros for 40 hours of tuition) - see Consorci per a la Normalització Lingüística - CPNL - Consorci per a la Normalització Lingüística - CPNL


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## mickbcn (Feb 4, 2013)

La Vanguardia,is another anti independentist (catalan)newspaper,don't have the level of the El Mundo or La Razón,but allways write articles against the independence,I read this article and where is the problem?this person offer 2200 milions for build this Mosque, but I am sure that the majority of person here dont want this Mosque here.(I don't want it),we prefer more industries,hospitals and schools not Mosques or churchs.


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