# How is 84k in Sydney



## xyz.ryo (Apr 22, 2020)

Hi There, today my company made me an offer for my move to Sydney. They are offering 85k. They are also taking in charge health insurance at 300$ auss, but it was not clear if per month or per year, i forget to ask. 
Also, i will receive a one time bonus for relocation , 5k$ auss, and 1 travel per year to my home. I am a computer and network system engineer. 
What do you think ? Is it enough for Sydney ? I am single, no kids. Thanks !


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## abhiaus (Jul 6, 2018)

Bro take it ..in this pandemic situation if you are getting a job is even great news for us waiting to hear anything from employers..

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## xyz.ryo (Apr 22, 2020)

I forget ton mention that this is a company transfer, from France , to Sydney


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## Muka (Jun 15, 2019)

Depends on your lifestyle. 85k is obviously not great if you gonna be the sole earner and also have a family. its decent money if you going to stay alone and can share accommodation with someone. another thing to consider for you is the economic benefit of this move because you are coming from a High Income country. As per my understanding Sydney is more expensive than Paris so you need to compare your current perks with the offered one and see if the move makes any sense...


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## xyz.ryo (Apr 22, 2020)

Thank you for your answer Muka. Indeed , I have to check difference with my actual salary , but this is some kind of wish to move from France.
Why do you say I need to share accommodation ? This salary is not enough to live single ? 

I just saw that tax are very high in Australia. When do you pay them ? Monthly or yearly ?
Any other advices ?


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## Muka (Jun 15, 2019)

i haven't said that you need to share accommodation. I only said that way you can save lot of money if you do so. Also, Sydney has one of the most expensive housing market in the world so rentals are not cheap. everything depends on where you want to stay and where your office place is.

Taxes are deducted from your salary every month and you need to file Return after July. Also, if your wish is to move out of France then sydney is the right place for you. its very vibrant and great city to explore.


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## xyz.ryo (Apr 22, 2020)

Ok now I understand , thank you. Indeed, I think Australia is a great place to be. 
I was thinking renting near our office , in Sydney north. Now , I am a little bit afraid about the salary. I have the feeling it is not enough to feel secure... 
Any other advices ?


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## lucky_chikna (May 28, 2018)

I think the pay is low for the location and the nature of the job.
And chance you can negotiate the pay?
I would advise a minimum of 100k for Sydney. Don't sell yourself short.


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## xyz.ryo (Apr 22, 2020)

lucky_chikna said:


> I think the pay is low for the location and the nature of the job.
> And chance you can negotiate the pay?
> I would advise a minimum of 100k for Sydney. Don't sell yourself short.


This is what I am thinking too , 100k is good , in my opinion.. about negotiation, I will try next Week.... I have a question regarding opal fare. There is no monthly subscription? You pay as you travel only ?


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## Bamf (Jul 23, 2019)

I currently live in Sydney, while 85k isn’t so much money in Sydney, but it’s good money for a single person. You should get by pretty okay. Your biggest recurring expense would be rent. Try to check out rental prices around your office and say a 15-20 km radius. I suspect you’ll find affordable 2 bedroom apartments.


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## nikhileshp (Jun 14, 2018)

I assume that you would be moving on work permit (482) due to medical insurance. From a future perspective, NSW has higher school fees in case you are on temporary visa - I know you do not have kids, but sharing this for long term planning. 
Also with 482 visa, you are bound to the employer so difficult to switch job.

PS: I am in Melbourne and have no idea about the salary and expenses.


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## xyz.ryo (Apr 22, 2020)

Bamf said:


> I currently live in Sydney, while 85k isn’t so much money in Sydney, but it’s good money for a single person. You should get by pretty okay. Your biggest recurring expense would be rent. Try to check out rental prices around your office and say a 15-20 km radius. I suspect you’ll find affordable 2 bedroom apartments.


with calculation, i can see that i can live with 85k, but i have to check everything and be cautious... Also, i was thinking to rent an apartment near our office, in sydney north... 
Are you near 85K ?


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## xyz.ryo (Apr 22, 2020)

nikhileshp said:


> I assume that you would be moving on work permit (482) due to medical insurance. From a future perspective, NSW has higher school fees in case you are on temporary visa - I know you do not have kids, but sharing this for long term planning.
> Also with 482 visa, you are bound to the employer so difficult to switch job.
> 
> PS: I am in Melbourne and have no idea about the salary and expenses.


yes, i know by reading forums and posts here, that having kids in sydney is very expensive... for the moment, they offer 400£ each month for medical insurance, wich is a good thing , too much, but good...
I am bound to my employer, but this is my employer since 5 years, but i can understand that it is difficult to quit and find better if wanted..


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## Bamf (Jul 23, 2019)

Well you should take a look at realestate.com.au as well as domain.com.au to see rental prices in north Sydney.


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## xyz.ryo (Apr 22, 2020)

Bamf said:


> Well you should take a look at realestate.com.au as well as domain.com.au to see rental prices in north Sydney.


thank, i already had a look, and it seem, that a correct appartment is about 600/700 per week in sydney north.


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## xyz.ryo (Apr 22, 2020)

when trying to calculate prices, here is what i find : 

Rent	700$ per week = 36 400 
Transports 150$ per month = 1 800 
Internet 70$ per month = 840 
Electricity/water	180$ per month = 2 160 
Tax's 23% = -20010$
food 100$ per week = 5200

At the end, I have 20590 per year, wich give 1715$ to live in sydney per month.

It seem ok for a single man to go out, travel, and save money. What do you think ? Am i missing something ?

(i will not pay health insurance, bond, and home electronics because they will be covered by my relocate package)

Any advices ? thanks a lot !


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## sreeramb93 (May 5, 2020)

Hope for good salary increments, get your PR. Sydney is very expensive for the salaries they offer. so think about it

1715 dollars for a single is 84k INR.


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## Bamf (Jul 23, 2019)

Depending on your tastes, you can find 2 bed apartments within a 15km radius of your office for say A$500/week.


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## xyz.ryo (Apr 22, 2020)

Bamf said:


> Depending on your tastes, you can find 2 bed apartments within a 15km radius of your office for say A$500/week.


it is really far 15km... also, by doing so, i will have another big expanse, transportations... renting in sydney for a small good appartment is about 500$ to 700$ wich is good too, i think .. Also, i am single, i dont need 2 bed room, only one 1bedroom is enough
What do you think about my calculation ?


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## CHINSA (Mar 28, 2020)

xyz.ryo said:


> when trying to calculate prices, here is what i find :
> 
> Rent	700$ per week = 36 400
> Transports 150$ per month = 1 800
> ...


Every estimate in your calculation is variable based on your life style (lavish lifestyle or saving oriented). If you are single, you can easily live with 85k. I think 1BHK will be more than enough for you and $700 is too much for a single person and probably valid for an upscale apartment. Also, you can buy a two bedroom apartment and rent one room to another single person if you think you can't afford rent or don't want to live alone and/or to save money. 
Electricity is expensive in Australia. But you ideally don't need to pay water bill, since it is usually covered in the rent. Your agent or landlord will tell you if you should. The cost of food can be reduced if you can cook. In my opinion being a single guy you can live a decent life with 84k. All the best.


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## 95995 (May 16, 2010)

xyz.ryo said:


> it is really far 15km... also, by doing so, i will have another big expanse, transportations... renting in sydney for a small good appartment is about 500$ to 700$ wich is good too, i think .. Also, i am single, i dont need 2 bed room, only one 1bedroom is enough
> What do you think about my calculation ?


When you say Sydney north, do you mean North Sydney or somewhere else? The expression Sydney north is a bit vague. Also in terms of renting an apartment, I strongly advise you to make sure it is not situated on a main road, because the traffic noise will drive you insane (unless you are on a very high floor). You should definitely look for a place to live on the northern side of the harbour bridge. Perhaps you can get your company to assist you to find suitable rental accommodation - that could be really important as you won't have the necessary Australian credit rating that is used to assessed tenants (this works very differently to France and your work contract could be considered insufficient, though it seems you are not a new employee of the company, which does help). 

85k is not such a high salary given that housing in Sydney is expensive, but it is enough for you to live on without getting into financial stress. You haven't said whether this is a permanent move on a permanent residence visa - this makes a huge difference especially in terms of your salary package (the health insurance included in your salary package could be top-up insurance, which is similar to a mutuelle in France, and I am sure it must be $300 per month not per annum). Also, don't forget that you will be required to pay into a superannuation fund - check with your employer re the minimum contribution you need to have deducted from your salary to get a better idea of what your take home pay will be.

Th


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## rhapsody (Mar 7, 2018)

xyz.ryo said:


> when trying to calculate prices, here is what i find :
> 
> Rent	700$ per week = 36 400
> Transports 150$ per month = 1 800
> ...


$700 per week for rent for a single person is a bit expensive, as others pointed out. Instead of renting an expensive North Sydney apartment, perhaps you can expand search to suburbs on the rail line closer to North Sydney and get a good enough unit under $500. $200-$250 saved per week on rent is huge compared to transport cost. Suburbs like St. Leanords, Artarmon and Chatswood are close to North Sydney and commute time is under 30 mins.


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## 95995 (May 16, 2010)

rhapsody said:


> $700 per week for rent for a single person is a bit expensive, as others pointed out. Instead of renting an expensive North Sydney apartment, perhaps you can expand search to suburbs on the rail line closer to North Sydney and get a good enough unit under $500. $200-$250 saved per week on rent is huge compared to transport cost. Suburbs like St. Leanords, Artarmon and Chatswood are close to North Sydney and commute time is under 30 mins.


Though at least in normal non-Covid-19 times, actually (a) being able to get on a packed train from a suburb that is close in, and (b) being squeezed in like sardines (which is at least as bad as the Paris metro and worse than the RER!) is horrid in my experience. Far better to rent somewhere a little more expensive that is within walking distance, eg. McMahons Point, Milsons Point, parts of Cammeray, etc. or even that part of St. Leonards that is close to North Sydney. I have lived in both McMahons Point and Cammeray and done that and it was well worth the extra rent. Alternatively, somewhere close that is on a regular bus route - there are lots of nice suburbs that are slightly tucked away, but then going out at night etc. for entertainment can become a bit more difficult, and it's perhaps best not to rent in say Cremorne or Mosman and surrounds because of the traffic issues heading into North Sydney and Sydney.

(I spent many years working in North Sydney BTW.)


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## xyz.ryo (Apr 22, 2020)

EverHopeful said:


> When you say Sydney north, do you mean North Sydney or somewhere else? The expression Sydney north is a bit vague. Also in terms of renting an apartment, I strongly advise you to make sure it is not situated on a main road, because the traffic noise will drive you insane (unless you are on a very high floor). You should definitely look for a place to live on the northern side of the harbour bridge. Perhaps you can get your company to assist you to find suitable rental accommodation - that could be really important as you won't have the necessary Australian credit rating that is used to assessed tenants (this works very differently to France and your work contract could be considered insufficient, though it seems you are not a new employee of the company, which does help).
> 
> 85k is not such a high salary given that housing in Sydney is expensive, but it is enough for you to live on without getting into financial stress. You haven't said whether this is a permanent move on a permanent residence visa - this makes a huge difference especially in terms of your salary package (the health insurance included in your salary package could be top-up insurance, which is similar to a mutuelle in France, and I am sure it must be $300 per month not per annum). Also, don't forget that you will be required to pay into a superannuation fund - check with your employer re the minimum contribution you need to have deducted from your salary to get a better idea of what your take home pay will be.
> 
> Th


I mean North Sydney, where our office is. I was not aware about superannuation... thank you for this advice, it is 9% !


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## xyz.ryo (Apr 22, 2020)

rhapsody said:


> $700 per week for rent for a single person is a bit expensive, as others pointed out. Instead of renting an expensive North Sydney apartment, perhaps you can expand search to suburbs on the rail line closer to North Sydney and get a good enough unit under $500. $200-$250 saved per week on rent is huge compared to transport cost. Suburbs like St. Leanords, Artarmon and Chatswood are close to North Sydney and commute time is under 30 mins.


yes, indeed, it seem a big price for a rent, but i prefer calculating with high prices so i will have no suprise. It also seem that 500$ is a reasonnable price for a good appartment in sydney north, 1bedroom.


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## xyz.ryo (Apr 22, 2020)

EverHopeful said:


> Though at least in normal non-Covid-19 times, actually (a) being able to get on a packed train from a suburb that is close in, and (b) being squeezed in like sardines (which is at least as bad as the Paris metro and worse than the RER!) is horrid in my experience. Far better to rent somewhere a little more expensive that is within walking distance, eg. McMahons Point, Milsons Point, parts of Cammeray, etc. or even that part of St. Leonards that is close to North Sydney. I have lived in both McMahons Point and Cammeray and done that and it was well worth the extra rent. Alternatively, somewhere close that is on a regular bus route - there are lots of nice suburbs that are slightly tucked away, but then going out at night etc. for entertainment can become a bit more difficult, and it's perhaps best not to rent in say Cremorne or Mosman and surrounds because of the traffic issues heading into North Sydney and Sydney.
> 
> (I spent many years working in North Sydney BTW.)


I hope i will never see same metro traffic like in Paris. before Covid, i was using RER A and a metro line each day. This is an horrible experience, worst when there is technical issues or social movement... And you know we have a lot of them in France ...


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## 95995 (May 16, 2010)

xyz.ryo said:


> I mean North Sydney, where our office is. I was not aware about superannuation... thank you for this advice,* it is 9%* !


IIRC this amount is not included in your normal income tax deductions, but your compulsory contributions are taxed at 15%, and therefore are reduced by that amount as they go in (there have been so many changes to super over the years that I have lost track), but your company will be able to tell you what your take home pay in the hand will be, after taxes and after super. Your super account is also subject to fees and charges by the fund, how much depends on the fund, though usually industry based funds charge less and are better managed. If you earn enough to salary sacrifice amounts into super, though, that is a good option for someone on your salary. Your company will be contributing around 12% for you though. Super funds right now are not earning much because of the health/economic crisis - this is far from the first time though. However, assuming you are not close to retirement, contributions in a well managed fund can show an extremely good return, and some funds allow you to choose your investment option (for example, mine are mostly in 'Socially Responsible', which includes mostly environmentally friendly, shares and definitely not in aggressive growth shares, which has been a good choice in both bad times and good times and now gives me a pretty good pension, even though I was not a high salary earner and only had this type of super for something like 20 years prior to retirement. You just have to be able to deal with seeing the amount in your account go up and down over time


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## 95995 (May 16, 2010)

xyz.ryo said:


> yes, indeed, it seem a big price for a rent, but i prefer calculating with high prices so i will have no suprise. It also seem that 500$ is a reasonnable price for a good appartment in sydney north, 1bedroom.


Try to find something with a balcony or some kind of outdoor space. And remember North facing is like South facing in France 

Grocery shopping is probably not so good in North Sydney and it may be worth travelling to another suburb to do this. Major supermarkets in Australia are Woolworths, Coles and Aldi, though there are other smaller chains that usually are a bit more expensive.


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## 95995 (May 16, 2010)

xyz.ryo said:


> I hope i will never see same metro traffic like in Paris. before Covid, i was using RER A and a metro line each day. This is an horrible experience, worst when there is technical issues or social movement... And you know we have a lot of them in France ...


No, you won't see the same issues as in Paris, which has far more public transport services but with a very great many more journeys every day, especially in peak hour. However public transport in Sydney is less developed, thus you still get very overcrowded trains in peak hour, including/especially on that North Shore line. Strikes have never been common, and NSW has now declared public transport an essential public service, so workers are not allowed to strike. No GJ type social movements either. The problems that disrupt services are generally storms and technical issues.


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## dpdapper (Apr 18, 2013)

xyz.ryo said:


> when trying to calculate prices, here is what i find :
> 
> Rent700$ per week = 36 400
> Transports 150$ per month = 1 800
> ...



A$100 per week for food? This assumes you won’t eat out much (except take away, perhaps). I find Sydney a very, very good, but expensive, restaurant town, especially with wine. I’m assuming as a French person that is «*obligatoire!*». 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## 95995 (May 16, 2010)

dpdapper said:


> A$100 per week for food? This assumes you won’t eat out much (except take away, perhaps). I find Sydney a very, very good, but expensive, restaurant town, especially with wine. I’m assuming as a French person that is «*obligatoire!*».
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


But you can get good not so expensive Australian wine from lots of suppliers! The OP has arguably been overestimating rent by around AUD200 pw and if he rents in North Sydney transport costs will be minimal, except for going out. I suspect he will be cooking at home a lot, given that Australian beef and lamb cuts are very good, but they are all overcooked by Australian standards, eg. a rare steak is not rare and all lamb is overcooked 

Though Asian dishes in Australia are generally very good (better than France), as is Lebanese food, and you don't need to pay a lot once you find the right places to eat.


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## dpdapper (Apr 18, 2013)

EverHopeful said:


> But you can get good not so expensive Australian wine from lots of suppliers! The OP has arguably been overestimating rent by around AUD200 pw and if he rents in North Sydney transport costs will be minimal, except for going out. I suspect he will be cooking at home a lot, given that Australian beef and lamb cuts are very good, but they are all overcooked by Australian standards, eg. a rare steak is not rare and all lamb is overcooked
> 
> Though Asian dishes in Australia are generally very good (better than France), as is Lebanese food, and you don't need to pay a lot once you find the right places to eat.



Totally agree on all points. Especially on Asian food (especially anything with even a hint of spice!) being better in Sydney (and Melbourne, but not in the obligatory Chinese restaurants in country towns) than in France. But the need to reallocate some rent dollars to food is probably right.


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## dybydx (Jul 23, 2019)

I’m sorry that I cannot give any comments as many one did it as I hold the same opinion as them. I’m working in North Sydney as well.

But I’m coming to say this is the first topic in this forum that really discuss about “expat” stuff and living here.

While the rest of topics mostly concern about visa stuff, how to get through scam stuff in order to live and drive Uber permanently here. How to take advantages from the Aus government as much as possible without thinking about giving back.

Also, I would like to say that this person (OP) is a real “skilled” person. Do not need to crack through scam English testing or work on Ponzi money maker schemes like PY, NAATI. The OP get a skilled job before land in Australia.

You see, these scams don’t actually proof that a certain person is skilled.

Do what you love, no matter of where you are living. The doors are always open there.


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## 95995 (May 16, 2010)

It is very, very early in the morning in France, but as I can't sleep I thought I should make another important point for the OP, especially given I have no idea how long he intends to stay in Australia.

It is a potential problem.

Be aware that Australia, whilst it does have a tax agreement with France, does not have a social security agreement with France (an agreement has been on the table for many years, but I doubt very much that Australia will ever sign it). This I believe means that years worked in Australia are not counted as years worked for the French pension, so if you return to France before retirement you would either have to work additional years or take a reduced French pension because you will not have enough trimestres counted as having been worked. On the other hand, Australia does have a social security agreement with various other EU countries.


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## sawtinnmaung (Jan 21, 2016)

xyz.ryo said:


> when trying to calculate prices, here is what i find :
> 
> Rent	700$ per week = 36 400
> Transports 150$ per month = 1 800
> ...


$100 pw for food is a bit low even you cook at home. Eating out can cost you easily $20-$25 per meal. You may want to review it. Think about this! $15 per a bag of rice (5kg), $3 for a loaf of bread, $10 per 500g of fresh chicken breast.

Utility really depends on season, the gas alone can go up $100 per month if it is in winter. Water can be $150 per month in summer. 

$150 per month for transportation is also very low. $10 per day is average and multiply by how many days you want to go out. Buying a car can be the cheaper option sometimes but parking is expensive. So, most people in AU use the combination of driving and taking public transport to reduce some amount of money. It is my own opinion.

Anyway, you are warmly welcome to Australia.


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## 95995 (May 16, 2010)

EverHopeful said:


> But you can get good not so expensive Australian wine from lots of suppliers! The OP has arguably been overestimating rent by around AUD200 pw and if he rents in North Sydney transport costs will be minimal, except for going out. I suspect he will be cooking at home a lot, given that Australian beef and lamb cuts are very good, *but they are all overcooked by Australian standards*, eg. a rare steak is not rare and all lamb is overcooked
> 
> Though Asian dishes in Australia are generally very good (better than France), as is Lebanese food, and you don't need to pay a lot once you find the right places to eat.


I meant by French standards


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## 95995 (May 16, 2010)

Perhaps I should also point out that when I mentioned my 'socially responsible' superannuation investment, the returns have been equal to or better than investment options, including those my scheme terms 'agressive' and 'growth'.


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## ashish1137 (Aug 4, 2013)

Hi Mate
84k is not great but good im this market.

It also depends on the nature of your job a d how well you can sustain. Yes, you might have to think twice before byyung anything big.

However, you will be presented with pletgora of opportunities depending ipon how good you are and the mpre experience you gain in this market.

I came at 85k in 2015 and was able to easily manage for a year or so and then my wife also started working. Haven't looked back since then.

North Sydney will be very costly to rent. West mught be affordable and choice of new house buyers as well.

Grab it and see you here in Sydney.

Regards


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## ashish1137 (Aug 4, 2013)

EverHopeful said:


> Perhaps I should also point out that when I mentioned my 'socially responsible' superannuation investment, the returns have been equal to or better than investment options, including those my scheme terms 'agressive' and 'growth'.


I can't seem to rely on super here or any other pension scheme back in my home country for that matter.

I have been able to achieve a passive income of 20% of my target so far. I think investimg in property is the best here. I have started low and decent yielding assets with good capital growth.

Regards


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## evangelist (Oct 5, 2014)

xyz.ryo said:


> Hi There, today my company made me an offer for my move to Sydney. They are offering 85k. They are also taking in charge health insurance at 300$ auss, but it was not clear if per month or per year, i forget to ask.
> Also, i will receive a one time bonus for relocation , 5k$ auss, and 1 travel per year to my home. I am a computer and network system engineer.
> What do you think ? Is it enough for Sydney ? I am single, no kids. Thanks !


I guess, a lot of folks have brainstormed on whether the OP has got a good offer to consider, or not. One thing they haven't considered is his current lifestyle and options in France. 

Most Europeans consider Australia as a sunny place full of beaches, while the cost/savings factor is secondary to them. But there's more to life than beaches and sun baths.
Many who come from developing countries feel Australia is a paradise, and are willing to move at any cost. (84K or 42K, doesn't matter).

If I were a European working in France, I would definitely think twice (or three-four times) before considering a move to Sydney.


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## 95995 (May 16, 2010)

evangelist said:


> I guess, a lot of folks have brainstormed on whether the OP has got a good offer to consider, or not. One thing they haven't considered is his current lifestyle and options in France.
> 
> Most Europeans consider Australia as a sunny place full of beaches, while the cost/savings factor is secondary to them. But there's more to life than beaches and sun baths.
> Many who come from developing countries feel Australia is a paradise, and are willing to move at any cost. (84K or 42K, doesn't matter).
> ...


I don't know xyz's nationality, but I am half French, half British by birth and Australian by naturalisation (Australia is where I spent most of my life and I still have close family there) - however I have never worked in France. I freely chose to return to my roots when I retired.

Australia is not so bad. xyz has been offered a package, not just a salary, that contains some important items. He is single and would be transferring with his current company, so I would think his company appreciates him, his skills and his work ethic, though of course his being single makes it easier for the company. I would agree, though, that the salary could be a somewhat higher, despite the good package.

There are issues, but some of those are subject to how long he would stay in Australia and what he does after that. The pension thing is, of course, an important issue that he should take into account. But then again, he appears to be currently living in Paris, which is ultra expensive and where commuting is a nightmare. Perhaps though you think working conditions in Paris are better than they are. In some respects they are, but in some respects not so much. He hasn't said where he lives in the Île de France, but I can tell you that commuting there is a nightmare although subsidised by the employer, life there is also very expensive (both accommodation and everyday necessities). 

At the end of the day, only he can decide, and it might just be part of his career path with the company for all we know. But believe me, Australia is a good place for many Europeans, including Brits, though getting a permanent residence visa has become extremely difficult and restrictive, and in my opinion those temporary visas are rubbish and even potentially deadly for some, not to mention the current conditions on where you can live with a PR visa. That is not to say that I don't understand why those from developing countries are attracted to Australia; they are to France and some other EU countries too, but visas are hard to get, although they generally offer far more security than does Australia.

I do not regret having spent most of my life in Australia, though for me work opportunities have always been better in various countries in Europe.


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## xyz.ryo (Apr 22, 2020)

evangelist said:


> I guess, a lot of folks have brainstormed on whether the OP has got a good offer to consider, or not. One thing they haven't considered is his current lifestyle and options in France.
> 
> Most Europeans consider Australia as a sunny place full of beaches, while the cost/savings factor is secondary to them. But there's more to life than beaches and sun baths.
> Many who come from developing countries feel Australia is a paradise, and are willing to move at any cost. (84K or 42K, doesn't matter).
> ...


You are totaly right, lifestyles are differents between european/us and some other parts of the world like developing countries. In my case, even if I am from France, i know 84k will be ok for me, because i dont spend a lot of money in useless things. I dont buy luxury brands, i dont buy shoes or clothes each months, i dont care about big cars. However, i have a good salary in france, but I am not interested in such things.
But 84k will be enough to live decently. But it will not be enough to save money, and so, to think about projects, house, a family, kids... Especialy in a country like Australia, where the migration process is tough, strict, and where you are not sure about the future, unless you gain PR.
I am thinking a lot about this move, since months, thats why i am asking peoples.
I thank all the people who gave me advice on this thread.


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## xyz.ryo (Apr 22, 2020)

EverHopeful said:


> I don't know xyz's nationality, but I am half French, half British by birth and Australian by naturalisation (Australia is where I spent most of my life and I still have close family there) - however I have never worked in France. I freely chose to return to my roots when I retired.
> 
> Australia is not so bad. xyz has been offered a package, not just a salary, that contains some important items. He is single and would be transferring with his current company, so I would think his company appreciates him, his skills and his work ethic, though of course his being single makes it easier for the company. I would agree, though, that the salary could be a somewhat higher, despite the good package.
> 
> ...


yes, the package is good, but the most important is the salary. I would prefer a higher salary, without the package. With the salary, you have the security each months, and you can show your pay slips to the bank if needed. 
I live in Paris 10arr, and yes, commuting is the biggest **** in this town. In this Covid crisis, we are many who do not want to take risks by taking public transports. Before crisis, each days, i had to take a busy metro and a more busy RER line. You are packed, sticked to others persons, with no place to move and to breath, this is horrible, especially when technical issues appear or social movements are announced. 

I can see you are living in Pau, near the Pyrénées. South of France is a nice place to be for sure, you can have a nice house, in the middle of the nature and it is not so high in price. This is where i wanted to go before Paris, but jobs are located in Paris and some other big cities... 

Can you explain what you said about PR and "and even potentially deadly for some" ? Thank you


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## 95995 (May 16, 2010)

xyz.ryo said:


> yes, the package is good, but the most important is the salary. I would prefer a higher salary, without the package. With the salary, you have the security each months, and you can show your pay slips to the bank if needed.
> I live in Paris 10arr, and yes, commuting is the biggest **** in this town. In this Covid crisis, we are many who do not want to take risks by taking public transports. Before crisis, each days, i had to take a busy metro and a more busy RER line. You are packed, sticked to others persons, with no place to move and to breath, this is horrible, especially when technical issues appear or social movements are announced.
> 
> I can see you are living in Pau, near the Pyrénées. South of France is a nice place to be for sure, you can have a nice house, in the middle of the nature and it is not so high in price. This is where i wanted to go before Paris, but jobs are located in Paris and some other big cities...
> ...


I don't own a house, I own outright a 2 bedroom 1960s apartment, and I do have a view of the Pyrenees. 

I actually said "in my opinion those *temporary *visas are rubbish and even potentially deadly for some", a lot of people have been left high and dry with no income during the Covid-19 crisis in Australia, and they are *temporary*, if the job ends under normal circumstances so does the visa, your rights to many things permanent residents benefit from are all but zero, plus many employers just take advantage. The Australian government has been making visas much harder, even ridiculously so, for around a decade now. Also, any visa granted on the basis of professional qualifications that requires you to live in regional areas where such work is all but inexistent is a total con. 

It wasn't always so.


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## 95995 (May 16, 2010)

Also, the Australian government has told those on temporary visas who no longer have an income (and they are *not *entitled to JobSeeker payments that they should return to their country of origin if possible, which means that they will do *nothing *to assist them.


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## evangelist (Oct 5, 2014)

EverHopeful, has an interesting perspective which comes from his success story of immigrating long back (I presume) and retiring in Oz. 
One has to consider that times have changed, and immigrants in current times have to go through a fair bit of struggle. Assets (homeownership) is ultra-expensive, while newcomers are basically priced out of the market. 
Question is what is on the plate for new immigrants, vis-a-vis what they are leaving back.
If you want a bit of a change (adventure) for a few years, don't think twice.
If you plan to settle and start a family there, think through it.
The decision points are many more than the remuneration on offer.


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## 95995 (May 16, 2010)

evangelist said:


> EverHopeful, has an interesting perspective which comes from his success story of immigrating long back (I presume) and retiring in Oz.
> One has to consider that times have changed, and immigrants in current times have to go through a fair bit of struggle. Assets (homeownership) is ultra-expensive, while newcomers are basically priced out of the market.
> Question is what is on the plate for new immigrants, vis-a-vis what they are leaving back.
> If you want a bit of a change (adventure) for a few years, don't think twice.
> ...


*I am a she *and I struggled with low wages as a result of discrimination against women  I studied almost continuously through various degrees and always achieved HD results.  I was never a high earner, for most of my time in Australia I was a low earner, and I experienced many economic crises. Though it has to be said I never had visa issues, given I last migrated to Australia in 1971 (and yes, I had lived there twice before). Things have actually improved since 1971, but the LNP government that has been in place for a long time now is definitely against permanent migrants and arguably racist - use 'em up, chuck 'em out when they no longer serve out purpose. Current immigration requirements are the worst I have ever seen, and I have seen a lot, given I have a human resources background. Also the requirements, especially for PR, are out of date before they are even published, and the IT categories in particular are inadequate because there are classes of very high level IT skills that are not even included - so you just have to apply on the basis of a qualification that might be at a significantly lower level. I also know for a fact that thee are often Australians with the required skills and experience, plus knowledge of all the Australian regulations etc., looking for work when that very work is supposed to be required (because the information that the Immigration Dept bases its requirement on and published is already out of date). So who do you think the employer will hire?

Crazy system - cruel and misleading.


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## 95995 (May 16, 2010)

@xyz, if you are looking to make a long term life in Australia, save money for a home, start a family etc. the first thing you need to do is to make absolutely sure your transfer is on the basis of a permanent residence visa.

I know how the banking system works in Australia, I am aware of the impacts of the broad ranging Royal Commission into Banking and Financial Services and the banks' response in terms of mortgages. New mortgages are currently very difficult to get, this will progressively get more difficult as a result of the economic crisis resulting from Covid-19 because the banks can no longer and will not take risks. Be aware that IMO this will continue and likely get harder for years to come. Think in terms of minimum 25% deposit, regular and continuous savings that equal at least your monthly repayments over 5 years, get behind on a payment even for a very short time and the bank will foreclose, evict you very quickly, confiscate your property and sell it for whatever they can get quickly, leave you with the outstanding debt that will continue to increase rapidly, you will no longer have a credit rating so will not find accommodation. Think in terms of mortage interests rates that are way above the official interest rate (this is the case even in good times), flat rate mortgages that are offered for say a maximum 3 years and then automatically switch to variable, no intervention from government.

Frankly I would, as an example, rather take a mortgage in France for a very small apartment in Paris at 700k Euros than a mortgage on a property in Sydney at 700k AUD (note the Paris property is nearly twice as expensive as the Sydney property).

Australia has gone through many, even regular, financial crises since the 1970s, I have been caught up in a mortgage on an outer Sydney property that rocketed up to 20% in less than 2 years (would have been max. 16% if we had bought a few months earlier) and, even though mu ex husband and I were both working full time, putting food on the table was extremely difficult (I won't tell you what we actually ended up eating), we had to turn the power of all the time, even when temps were close to 0 etc. because there is no way you can risk having utilities disconnected and no protection against that.

You will of course, make your own decision. You clearly want to get out of France. Good luck whatever you end up deciding (not that your transfer will come into effect for a while yet).


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## ashish1137 (Aug 4, 2013)

Hi @ever hopeful

There are a few things in your post.

1. You can always plan to invest and get returns in other states' markets in Realestate.than buying a place of your own. All this can be achieved without compromising your lifestyle and without much deposit.

2. Mortgage is not difficult. You have different tier lenders and if you go to good broker, you can stills ecure mortgage.

3. Properties dont always sky rocket, there will be and have been times in each cycle when property would drop.

All in all, If one is open, Australia presents so many opportunities that one will be overwhelmed.

Regards


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## evangelist (Oct 5, 2014)

ashish1137 said:


> Hi @ever hopeful
> 
> There are a few things in your post.
> 
> ...


my own research yields that property prices have more than doubled in the past 7 years, in most Australian cities. There was no economic boom supporting the inflated property prices.
Property prices may correct significantly only if people lose jobs and start defaulting on mortgage payments. This is not a good scenario anyway.


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## 95995 (May 16, 2010)

evangelist said:


> my own research yields that property prices have more than doubled in the past 7 years, in most Australian cities. There was no economic boom supporting the inflated property prices.
> Property prices may correct significantly only if people lose jobs and start defaulting on mortgage payments. This is not a good scenario anyway.


I agree they have (perhaps we should now say had?) doubled. That's fine for those who sold at the right time, and not too big an issue for those who had paid off their mortgage. 

Most people in Oz believe there will be a significant correction, and it is already starting because of the impact on those who are not on fixed rate mortgages or whose fixed rate term is coming to an end, not to mention those who had interest-only mortgages because those are in the process of being switched to variable. And remember some people can no longer pay their rent, so investment properties are turning into a risk.

I have many friends and former colleagues in Australia, some much younger than me, but all still in good positions that are not currently under threat. Those who have mortgages, whether on their own home or on investment properties, are now very worried. One couple I know fortunately did up their investment property and sold it (to make improvements to their own home) just before everything started turning particularly bad and before the Covid-19 crisis.


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## 95995 (May 16, 2010)

ashish1137 said:


> Hi @ever hopeful
> 
> There are a few things in your post.
> 
> ...


I think you are not keeping up with what is happening in Australia and that if you you have invested in property in other States, especially if through a third tier lender or broker (most of these are no longer legally allowed to act in the same way as a result of the Banking (and financial services) Royal Commission, you may soon get your fingers very seriously burnt.

Australia does certainly present many opportunities but it is at times like these that it also present many significant risks.

If xyz is not ready to invest in a home for another 5 years, the outlook may well be far better (or let's hope so). 

BTW, how do you think people pay they mortgages when they lose their jobs in what is now a very bleak job market, or, if they have investment properties, when tenants can no longer pay the rent for the same reason and/or rents fall (rents usually do fall at times like these)?


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## ashish1137 (Aug 4, 2013)

No offense but I did had a good laugh at your post.

I am an investor. Bought half a dozen by now. All my proeprties are cashflow positive and gained 50% growth in some cases in just 4-5 years and 30% average on entire portfolio. I am Leveraged to the max in terms of mortgage and part of big group of people (was lucky enough to bump into them) who have been doing this since last 3 to 4 decades and have way more knowledge than an average Joe out there. 

This is a business that provides you income so to keep you safe in downturns and economic disasters. Equal to having a full time.job.

To clarify my comment, Tier 2 and 3 lenders are smaller subsidiaries and banks and credit unions which are still owned by big banks or credit firms but are generous in terms of lending.

You won't believe how many legit ways are there to get lending whem majors refuse you. But thats alright, your thoughts are in line with a lot out there.

I am also a cert 4 in Finamce and Mortgage Broking and a Certificate of Registration. 
I have done all this part time with IT as my main stream of occupation.

So I can confidently tell you that buying happens anytime. You will see the impacts to some extent in next 1-2 years but only alight and no major issue.

I, myself have bought 2 properties in last 6 months nearly 20% to 25% below market peice returning 5.5% yield in one of the major capital of Australia.

Why would you bother with such numbers. But that is a different ball game altogether and one has to research and overcome their pre conceived notions to achieve something like this. 

Regards


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## ashish1137 (Aug 4, 2013)

Yes, that is not.

If you increase the horizon on numbers over Last 5 to 8 decades, property has doubles every 8 to 10 years.

The cycles have increased to 12 to 15 now. So you will anyways, not see equal growth or numbers.

Then the question boils down to what are you doing to get immediate growth in property (commonly referred to as equity).

Hence, I feel getting immediate growth is way more important in this market than sumple.set and forget strategy.

Cheers


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