# Spanish motorcycle license



## arbucklemw

I'm currently awaiting my residency down near Cadiz. My wife has dual citizenship UK (original) and US, while I'm US. I'm trying to figure out if it's at all possible to obtain a drivers license for a motorycle without having to get an A2 license that only allows riding a motorcycle up to 400cc? My bike is almost 1600cc and I've been riding for 22 years.

My driver's license is from Colorado and I have the motorcycle endorsement, and I also hold the cards for taking a beginner and advanced motorcycle course stateside (not that I expect they hold much water here, since nothing else seems to).

Yep, also want my driver's license for a passenger vehicle, and I've got no issue with working through the school process for that. But, waiting 2-years to drive my motorcycle "legally" here in Spain just ain't going to happen.

I've found a site, though still trying to figure out if it's legit, that will "work the system" and get a Polish license, which can then be transferred over to a Spanish license. Like I said, not sure if it's a legitimate site, though the process looks legitimate. Site is rapidepermis, so if anyone knows of it and or its legitimacy, any insight would be appreciated.

Also, any insight of how to avoid the A2 and get an A class driver's license here in Spain would be great. I'm also working on this locally with feelers out, and have someone that owns a bike shop in Jerez that I'm meeting with next week. I'm hoping he has a "cousin" with the traffic police that can get this done painlessly.

Otherwise, I'll use my IDP, stateside license, and copy of just my main passport page for any check points I run into. Still waiting on my residency to come through as final, so I should be ok for a while yet, and only 3-months into my time in Spain thus far.

Love the culture and people of Spain, and know the licensing is an EU thing, not necessarily a Spain thing, but pretty idiotic either way. I've been driving for 31 years overall, and 22 years on a motorcycle, and now I have to wait 2 years to drive the exact same bike I've been driving for the past 6 years out of those 22 years of riding? Asinine! Add to that the fact you can drive for 6 months on what you're licensed for elsewhere in the world, then suddenly, after 6 months you are unsuitable to drive anymore. OK, apologies for the rant here at the end, but this process is so ridiculous.


----------



## Hombre62

Motorcycle licencing is slowly being harmonised across the EU, for better or worse. You may be able to avail of the Polish "loophole" - do you have the language?

If not, you may need to stick to anglophone countries; both the UK and Ireland have "Direct Access" systems which allow riders to access large motorcycles immediately after a successful test.

Direct Access courses are held at approved training organisations, and usually last a week. You'd need to apply for a provisional licence in the first instance, so an accommodation address in one of those jurisdictions would be required. Do you have a relative or friend who ,ay be able to help you out with that?


----------



## arbucklemw

Thanks. This is another option we're looking into. My wife is from Liverpool, and we have family there (her brother), so will be looking into this over the next few weeks. As we reside in Spain, I'm not sure how just using my brother-in-laws address would suffice. From what I've seen on most EU country sites, you have to show that you have or have been approved for residency in that specific country before being allowed to test/receive a driver's license. If I'm wrong, that'd be great!

I'm not sure what you mean by direct access? Looks like, you test and you're good, correct?


----------



## Hombre62

https://www.gov.uk/direct-access-scheme-das-motorcycle-training-guidance

Direct Access Scheme (DAS) - Bikewize

UK provisional licence application process:
https://www.gov.uk/apply-first-provisional-driving-licence#other-ways-to-apply


> You can apply by post by completing a D1 application form, which you can get from the DVLA form ordering service or from a Post Office.
> 
> You’ll also need to include:
> 
> original documentation confirming your identity
> 
> a colour passport-style photograph
> 
> the fee of £50 by cheque or postal order payable to DVLA (do not send cash)
> 
> Send your completed application and payment to DVLA, Swansea, SA99 1AD.
> 
> If you’re including non-UK identity documents send your application and payment to DVLA, Swansea, SA99 1AF.


In a word, yes. Once you've successfully tested at the end of your course, you qualify for a group A licence without any restrictions.


----------



## arbucklemw

I'll check those out, and probably give bikewize a call in a few days. Looks like some hoops to jump through applying for a license in the UK....setting up bank account, having some type of bill being sent to an address in the UK so you have some type of "proof" that you live there if you don't have a passport (or residency status at the time). I'll continue to look into it. Thanks for the info and the links. Gives me a good place to start.


----------



## gus-lopez

Whatever way you obtain a license , it needs to be done BEFORE the date of residency otherwise when you go to swop it , they won't do it . The only way will be a spanish test. 
We had a poster on here a few weeks back who had residency from 2002 , took & passed a test in uk in 2003 & when he went to change from UK to spanish they threw it out.


----------



## Hombre62

I hadn't heard of that one.

That situation should no longer arise now that all EU/EAA licences conform to the common standard. There is no longer an obligation to change a driving licence to the country of residence.


----------



## 213979

Good luck. I had to start from scratch. I hope you can find a loophole! 
(I think I scared people, passing them at 120 on the highway with the L on the back window...)


----------



## arbucklemw

I live near the Navy base near Cadiz and someone there said I can skip the 2-year A-2 license period with proof from the US state I obtained my motorycle certification, or proof of how long I've held the motorcycle license. Had since I was 16, so let's see.....31 years now! This won't help many if it works out, but will pass along the details when I get them in case this pops up for any other US or non-EU license holder in the future.

I'll still need to test here in Spain, just skip the 2-year wait to go from being able to ride anything other than 400cc and below.


----------



## gus-lopez

Hombre62 said:


> I hadn't heard of that one.
> 
> That situation should no longer arise now that all EU/EAA licences conform to the common standard. There is no longer an obligation to change a driving licence to the country of residence.


Yes it doesn't need to be changed until the photo expires. That's when you could have a problem.


----------



## XTreme

I wouldn't fancy doing a motorcycle test again with the current EU regulations! 

They've got progressively stricter over the years.....back in '71 when I did mine it was just ride round the block without falling off!

That's why my bottle was going when I exchanged my UK for an ES licence.....but I used to a top notch gestor who watched those idiots in Trafico like a hawk!

So it's _at least_ ten more years of Styling and Profiling....even if it's only on the regular tea bag run to Albox like last week!


----------



## Blue7

*I'm in the same Moto-boat*

Hello all,
I'm in the same boat as original poster. I've got a U.S. license, two years of Polish residency with my wife a Polish citizen. I've not quite yet long term residency to get EU status, but the Polish wife and i would like to move to Spain more sooner than later. 

I'd like to think there were a way to eliminate what i hear is a nightmare of time and money to get the privilege of driving motos in Spain legally when i'm now 50 years old and been riding a motorcycle for 36 years of that time with many of those years traveling on Motos throughout many countries all over the world.

My secondary concern is the passenger vehicle license however, of which, it will certainly come into play eventually.

So, i'm all ears on this too and would love any information you all have.

From what i have gathered so far;
1-U.S. license is good for six months in Spain. (People tell me that one can use it surreptitiously beyond that but i'm now in the business of being absolutely out of harms way)
2-If i have an EU license already (which i don't) it would apply in Spain, so no necessary schooling/testing in Spain with current EU license. (So, Anyone know a loophole to get that EU license without all this exorbitant schooling/testing? for this U.S. boy with Polish residency?)
3-Even if i get my official long term EU residency, which i should eventually, that still leaves me without yearning for an expensive time consuming EU drivers test/schooling.

It seems in my case, i just want to find a cheaper and more efficient way of being legal. I've read that it's easier to get an EU license in other countries then i can take that EU license to Spain and be OK but that place to do that is NOT Poland as i hear it's just as silly as the Spanish authorities so that isn't an option. I've read that some people from Poland go to Ukraine to get licenses because it's easier but i haven't confirmed that, it's an avenue i'm hoping to clarify here and elsewhere.

Thank you for setting up this website for sharing info!

Cheers and good luck to us all!
Blue7
:fingerscrossed:


----------



## XTreme

Blue7 said:


> Hello all,
> I'm in the same boat as original poster. I've got a U.S. license, two years of Polish residency with my wife a Polish citizen. I've not quite yet long term residency to get EU status, but the Polish wife and i would like to move to Spain more sooner than later.
> 
> I'd like to think there were a way to eliminate what i hear is a nightmare of time and money to get the privilege of driving motos in Spain legally when i'm now 50 years old and been riding a motorcycle for 36 years of that time with many of those years traveling on Motos throughout many countries all over the world.
> 
> My secondary concern is the passenger vehicle license however, of which, it will certainly come into play eventually.
> 
> So, i'm all ears on this too and would love any information you all have.
> 
> From what i have gathered so far;
> 1-U.S. license is good for six months in Spain. (People tell me that one can use it surreptitiously beyond that but i'm now in the business of being absolutely out of harms way)
> 2-If i have an EU license already (which i don't) it would apply in Spain, so no necessary schooling/testing in Spain with current EU license. (So, Anyone know a loophole to get that EU license without all this exorbitant schooling/testing? for this U.S. boy with Polish residency?)
> 3-Even if i get my official long term EU residency, which i should eventually, that still leaves me without yearning for an expensive time consuming EU drivers test/schooling.
> 
> It seems in my case, i just want to find a cheaper and more efficient way of being legal. I've read that it's easier to get an EU license in other countries then i can take that EU license to Spain and be OK but that place to do that is NOT Poland as i hear it's just as silly as the Spanish authorities so that isn't an option. I've read that some people from Poland go to Ukraine to get licenses because it's easier but i haven't confirmed that, it's an avenue i'm hoping to clarify here and elsewhere.
> 
> Thank you for setting up this website for sharing info!
> 
> Cheers and good luck to us all!
> Blue7
> :fingerscrossed:


It's going to be a tough one! I've got a few Brit mates who've got into the US and they had to do a bike "test" again over there. But as we both know, the testing (if you can call it that) over there is farcical so it was dead easy. 
This side of the pond it's a different story.....so I'd try and get a test done wherever you feel most comfortable with the language. Try and get it done in Poland if you can....I can't imagine it could involve as much bureaucratic BS as Spain.


----------



## Blue7

*Breeze*

Thanks for the unfortunate info Xtreme, it gets me more understanding, although more sad too.

Yes, Getting a moto license in California in 1978 was a breeze. Haven't had to deal with it since!

Regardless, anyone else is welcome to chime in if there's any more good info!

Blue7


----------



## XTreme

Blue7 said:


> Thanks for the unfortunate info Xtreme, it gets me more understanding, although more sad too.
> 
> Yes, Getting a moto license in California in 1978 was a breeze. Haven't had to deal with it since!
> 
> Regardless, anyone else is welcome to chime in if there's any more good info!
> 
> Blue7


Britain in 71 was a walk in the park too.....but those days are gone.

Any "connections" in Poland that can perhaps work the system a bit?


----------



## David1979

Sorry to hijack the thread with what is probably a silly question, but what are the requirements for a moped over here? I'm looking to pick one up for short journeys to the train station, the beach etc.


----------



## snikpoh

David1979 said:


> Sorry to hijack the thread with what is probably a silly question, but what are the requirements for a moped over here? I'm looking to pick one up for short journeys to the train station, the beach etc.


If you have an existing bike or car licence, then no problem.

If you don't, then you need to take a theory and a practical test (costs in excess of 400euros).


----------



## David1979

snikpoh said:


> If you have an existing bike or car licence, then no problem.
> 
> If you don't, then you need to take a theory and a practical test (costs in excess of 400euros).


Bloody hell, with the amount of kids firing around on these things I assumed it would have been cheaper than that to do!


----------



## Blue7

*Swimming in Officialdom*

Hey Xtreme,

I'm looking at all possibilities here in Poland too. I'll get back when i gather some more intelligence. Today i go to the U.S. Consulate to get what they know. 

A Polish friend here who lived in the U.S. for decades still uses his U.S. license here and he's been back in Poland for 13 years and he tells me yesterday: "Just keep your U.S. license with an International Drivers Permit." because he sees that as more helpful than an EU license. He went so far as to say that being inside the actual system is dangerous. He thinks that having a somewhat complex set of papers actually keeps him safer here. But here isn't Spain, so, i contacted another friend who owns a scooter rental shop in southern Spain, he's Polish but owns a Spanish scooter shop, and he says the same thing: "Just use your U.S. license with an International Drivers Permit." in Spain. BUT if i understand it correctly, in Poland you can use that set-up until the International Drivers Permit is *expired* but in Spain one only gets *Six Months* from the date of entry? Isn't that correct? But how do the Spanish police know what my date of entry is? But again, regardless, that's leaving too much hope for luck and chance which i'm trying to avoid.

I don't mind taking that easy route with the U.S. license and IDP, and hope for the best, but there will be a day when i may not be able to easily renew my U.S. license and that will be the day of reckoning i want to avoid if at all possible.

I just want the simplest way to get an EU license to be legal. I want to go today to the U.S. consulate and have them tell me that i can take a test in English here to get a Polish/EU license then I'm jake. BUT if they say that i must give up my U.S. license to do it, i'll take a pause. I don't want to give up the U.S. license either because when i go back to the States to see family, cops there don't like to see foreign anything because then i might be a terrorist. (By the way, send help to the U.S. because silliness is going off the charts.) We'll see. So that's one more question in all of this. Must i give up my U.S. license to get an EU license?....

more later

B7


----------



## Blue7

By the way, i just tried to post a photo with me and my bike but i can't do that until i post a few more times. So, i'll just say that i like my Beemers. I'm an airhead BMW freak. Me loves me Airheads. When i get to Spain i'll be the one with a 1981-1983 BMW r100rt and for weekends with the wife, a custom rat Beemer too stripped down to essentials. One for touring, one for style to take my baby out.

b7


----------



## Blue7

By the way again, XTreme, what make is that bike in the photo you posted? 

b7


----------



## XTreme

Blue7 said:


> By the way again, XTreme, what make is that bike in the photo you posted?
> 
> b7


Triple Tuning Forks.......it's a Yamaha FZ6-S Fazer!


----------



## Blue7




----------



## Blue7




----------



## XTreme

That's an old Beemer....what is it?


----------



## Blue7

*Dog*

It's a 1975 r75/6

Had it for 18 years and sold it to ship all our stuff to Europe. Like selling my dog. I'll never not want that bike back.


----------



## XTreme

Blue7 said:


> It's a 1975 r75/6
> 
> Had it for 18 years and sold it to ship all our stuff to Europe. Like selling my dog. I'll never not want that bike back.


Have you got a bike now?


----------



## Blue7

No bike now. When i move to Spain i'll be purchasing something close to an 1981-1983 BMW r100rt for touring and a project bike for making it a stripped down cool lookin' street cruiser. That's the plan anyway. 

One like this:
Custom BMW R75/6 | Bike EXIF

And one like this:
http://www.bmbikes.co.uk/photos/photophotos/r100rt.jpg

Or at least, that's the plan.

I went to the U.S. consulate yesterday. I found out for sure from them and from other sources that i should be ok in Poland with my U.S. license and and International Drivers Permit. *I also found out from them and other sources that i CAN get a Polish Drivers license by turning in my U.S. license and passing a WRITTEN EXAM only. *

The very helpful Polish woman at the consulate told me that when i turn in my U.S. drivers license to the Polish automobile authorities that it then gets forwarded to the U.S. consulate and i can retrieve it at the consulate. That option of retrieval of the U.S. license was given to me with a wink in the eye because it's not exactly following protocol so i'll have to trust that it will happen but it's not a game changer either way. I think i'm covered even if i don't get it back because i'll be getting an updated U.S. license pretty soon after that anyway.

*So, it seems after all is said and done, the best way forward for me is to pass the written exam here in Poland to get that EU drivers license then that will be good everywhere in EU countries including our Spain. AND i'll get my U.S. license to keep as well. That is what i must do.*

Thanks for all of your help in this and if anyone else is in my position, this is the best thing i can see for a way forward, and as cheap and easy as i can personally find.

Blue7


----------



## XTreme

That's good news Blue.....tie up those loose ends before you get here. 

Cos once you get onto Spanish soil you're going to run into plenty of bureucratic BS and an infinite number of jobsworths who won't accept ownership of any issue.


----------



## Blue7

*THE CHEAPEST PLAN for a holder of U.S. License*

For absolute clarity, this is my plan to get a Poland license to then get a Spain license as cheap as i can figure out. I must have been a resident here in Poland for at least three months first, which i have been, and i must have a valid U.S. license, which i do:

1-Must take theory classes of 30 hours which i believe covers moto and auto. (Don't know costs yet)
2-Take certificate of finished theory classes to "Voivoideship Traffic Center" closest to me
and make sure they DO GIVE ENGLISH TEST VERSION FIRST to sign up to take written exam. Maybe some centers don't give English tests?
3-I believe i will take TWO exams. One for Auto, one for Moto. A combined total 
of, i believe, around 260 Polish Zwats (around 86 bucks 'merkin).
4-PASS THE TESTS (I hear it takes some people many tries but i hope for the best).
5-Hand over my U.S. license to Polish Voivoideship Traffic Center authorities.
6-Get my Polish license.
7-Retrieve my U.S. license at the U.S. consulate. (Apparently the Polish authorities send the U.S. Consulate my U.S. license after i give it to them)
8-Move to Spain.
9-File for residency in Spain.
10-After a number of months i'll probably then trade it in for a Spanish license because i think they demand that? I believe to keep my Polish license i must reside in Poland for at least 186 days a year which i won't be. So i presume i need a Spanish version eventually. (Not sure on that one yet but it really doesn't matter either way at that point)
11-Ride motos 'til the sun don't shine.

I hope that's correct. If i find out otherwise during this process, i'll let you all know.

I'll be the one on the Beemer with the bugs in my smiling teeth. If you see me waive hello
and i'll do the same.
B7:clap2:lane::rofl:eace::rockon:


----------



## XTreme

Sounds like a plan Blue! I got a load of Yank bike mates.......so just take it steady when you get here!

Don't immediately jump into your goddam wrenching and farkling (that's lost everybody).

Could be worse....at least you're not some good 'ole boy on some POS Harley!

The Spaniards love them over here......with the streamers and all the other BS!


----------



## Blue7

I'll give you a shout when i land XTreme. How can we exchange emails?


----------



## XTreme

Blue7 said:


> I'll give you a shout when i land XTreme. How can we exchange emails?


I'll PM you my info!


----------



## Hombre62

arbucklemw said:


> I'll still need to test here in Spain, just skip the 2-year wait to go from being able to ride anything other than 400cc and below.


That will be great if it works out that way for you. It might be a good idea to speak to a Spanish school about the practical test - it's becoming the norm in the EU for it to be a "pursuit" test where the examiner follows you on his/her motorcycle and issues you with instructions and directions via a radio link. If your language skills aren't up to that, you may be setting yourself up for a fall.


----------



## arbucklemw

Since I started the thread, thought I'd chime back in. No real progress yet. Yep, gotta take the driving test for a car, both practical and theory. No problem there as the theory test is in English. As for the motorcycle license portion, looks like I'll need to take both the theory and practical. Problem I'm running into now is that the motorcycle theory exam is only done in Spanish. I'm trying to clear up whether an interpeter, offical (paid) or friend (probably not gonna happen). What the driving schools keep telling me is that there is no English version of the motorcycle exam, at the same time telling me that "they think" an interpreter isn't allowed.

As with everything we've come across in Spain with the bureaucracy BS since arriving in April of this year, the above doesn't really surprise us anymore. We're biding our time, gonna do a year, maybe 2 at most and get the f--- out of this f---ed up country. No wonder their economy is in such a shambles. Having been stationed here twice while serving in the Navy, I used to love Spain, the culture, and the people. Now? As far as I'm concerned, the country could implode on itself and I'd just laugh at the karma. My wife's from England and doesn't share the same feelings that I do about Spain now, she actually dislikes the country far more than I do now.

As for the motorcycle license, we may just use the International Driving Permit and my stateside license, taking our chances here, then head across the EU since I have my Spanish residency (my mistake) on the motorcycle. My stateside and IDP should suffice throughout the rest of the EU.


----------



## arbucklemw

My bike from the states cleared Spanish customs duty/tax free on June 26th of this year. We received the bike down near Cadiz on July 2nd. July 3rd, had the bike at a local mechanic who we were referred to that spoke English and his shop was 1 km from the ITV office.

Nov 23rd, FINALLY received the paperwork for the bike back and picked up my license plate.

What took so long.....the Spanish bureaucracy. The ITV took over 2-months as we hit August and the Spanish siesta/manana attitude extended the already slow mindset of the locals to complete inactivity. What needed changed for the ITV that might have contributed to this delay you might ask? ONE amber light on the front fender had to be changed to a white light. This was ordered in early July and was in place on the bike within 10 days of being notified that it needed changed. What else? During this same 10 day period of waiting for the light to be received, lights had to be disconnected,, not changed/replaced, just disconnected. That's it!! No mas.

As for drivers license....I'm winging it until we return the the states. We were planning on living here for several years, but due to multiple examples of the above laziness, lack of work ethic, and/or just plain incompetence without oversight, we're DONE with Spain. We plan to ship the furniture back stateside early next year, and hop on the bike and tour Europe for most of the summer. Then, ship the bike back out to the states and fly back ourselves.

I was stationed in Spain 2 times for 2 years each time and loved it. Living here as a resident and dealing with the above BS has done it for me. There's a reason the Spanish economy is in the state it's in, and as far as I'm concerned, they deserve every cent of their economic troubles. My wife and I both have pensions, hers from the UK, mine from the US, so you would think they would welcome the additional money coming into the country, what little it may be. But, we're taking our money and running.

If the entire Spanish economy collapses upon itself, I will find it extremely hard to keep from falling to the floor and laughing my a-- off!

Love it or leave it, we're leaving it!


----------



## XTreme

It's a pity that Spain didn't work out for you........it's certainly not for everybody.

It can be frustrating at times but as the years go by you get used to it.

The quality of life is good here, the people have been great to us, and the weather is considerably better than where we came from......so it's swings and roundabouts really.

Hope all goes well for you in the future!


----------



## VFR

arbucklemw said:


> My bike from the states cleared Spanish customs duty/tax free on June 26th of this year. We received the bike down near Cadiz on July 2nd. July 3rd, had the bike at a local mechanic who we were referred to that spoke English and his shop was 1 km from the ITV office.
> 
> Nov 23rd, FINALLY received the paperwork for the bike back and picked up my license plate.
> 
> What took so long.....the Spanish bureaucracy. The ITV took over 2-months as we hit August and the Spanish siesta/manana attitude extended the already slow mindset of the locals to complete inactivity. What needed changed for the ITV that might have contributed to this delay you might ask? ONE amber light on the front fender had to be changed to a white light. This was ordered in early July and was in place on the bike within 10 days of being notified that it needed changed. What else? During this same 10 day period of waiting for the light to be received, lights had to be disconnected,, not changed/replaced, just disconnected. That's it!! No mas.
> 
> As for drivers license....I'm winging it until we return the the states. We were planning on living here for several years, but due to multiple examples of the above laziness, lack of work ethic, and/or just plain incompetence without oversight, we're DONE with Spain. We plan to ship the furniture back stateside early next year, and hop on the bike and tour Europe for most of the summer. Then, ship the bike back out to the states and fly back ourselves.
> 
> I was stationed in Spain 2 times for 2 years each time and loved it. Living here as a resident and dealing with the above BS has done it for me. There's a reason the Spanish economy is in the state it's in, and as far as I'm concerned, they deserve every cent of their economic troubles. My wife and I both have pensions, hers from the UK, mine from the US, so you would think they would welcome the additional money coming into the country, what little it may be. But, we're taking our money and running.
> 
> If the entire Spanish economy collapses upon itself, I will find it extremely hard to keep from falling to the floor and laughing my a-- off!
> 
> Love it or leave it, we're leaving it!


Ok you are going back, but no need to kick the host country in the nuts (virtual that is) before you go.

BTW I wonder how a Spaniard would fare moving to the states & importing his bike etc ?


----------



## arbucklemw

playamonte said:


> Ok you are going back, but no need to kick the host country in the nuts (virtual that is) before you go.
> 
> BTW I wonder how a Spaniard would fare moving to the states & importing his bike etc ?


We had all paperwork in order, and with the minor change we had to do to the bike, no reason it should have taken that long. We should have known we were in for trouble when the mechanic apologized for the Spanish bureaucracy within the 1st minute of shaking his hand when we met him.

As for shifting a bike the states, if all of the paperwork is in order, I believe it would be a breeze, nothing like here. My wife received her US citizenship, going through that process...piece of cake. Drivers license....piece of cake. Biggest struggle she had was adjusting to driving on the correct side of the road. 

It's not just the issue with the bike, it's every single thing we've had to do involving any Spanish authority has been like pulling teeth. Stateside, we might have our issues, but inefficiency isn't at the top of the list. The DMV (Department of Motor Vehicles), you might have to wait an hour to have your number called, but usually within 10 minutes of it being called, you're done and dusted.

My wife made a call to the states to sort something out over the phone, something I believe would have involved speaking to 3 people over the phone, then going to 3 or 4 different locations and speaking to 5 or 6 people over 2 weeks to get an issue sorted here.

As to the previous poster who mentioned kicking the host country in the nutz. We're just returning the favor as that's all Spain has done to us since arriving.


----------



## arbucklemw

Also, with regards to kicking the host country in the nutz.....back to that. Everyone on the forum needs to hear the bad, not just the good, to get a clear picture of what they "might" encounter should they be deciding to move to a country.

Like I said, I was stationed here twice, for a total of 4-years, so not like I was coming in blind. BUT, I had no idea just how bad the Spanish bureaucracy and ineptitude could be. Yes, not everyone encounters it at the same level as I did, but I did.

So, just passing on my experience here and including my take/opinion/nut shot Spain...which is now the complete opposite of what it used to be.


----------



## jojo

arbucklemw said:


> Also, with regards to kicking the host country in the nutz.....back to that. Everyone on the forum needs to hear the bad, not just the good, to get a clear picture of what they "might" encounter should they be deciding to move to a country.
> 
> Like I said, I was stationed here twice, for a total of 4-years, so not like I was coming in blind. BUT, I had no idea just how bad the Spanish bureaucracy and ineptitude could be. Yes, not everyone encounters it at the same level as I did, but I did.
> 
> So, just passing on my experience here and including my take/opinion/nut shot Spain...which is now the complete opposite of what it used to be.



I guess it depends where you come from, your expectations and your experiences. We all have opinions and all like a moan. We've got this thread running at the moment http://www.expatforum.com/expats/spain-expat-forum-expats-living-spain/271137-spain-not-uk.html - altho you're not from the UK, it kinda gives you/us an idea of things. But, no you dont have to like things in Spain - or anywhere else. Theres some and some everywhere!!

Jo xxx


----------



## arbucklemw

jojo said:


> I guess it depends where you come from, your expectations and your experiences. We all have opinions and all like a moan. We've got this thread running at the moment http://www.expatforum.com/expats/spain-expat-forum-expats-living-spain/271137-spain-not-uk.html - altho you're not from the UK, it kinda gives you/us an idea of things. But, no you dont have to like things in Spain - or anywhere else. Theres some and some everywhere!!
> 
> Jo xxx


There's actually a lot I like about Spain....obviously.....or I wouldn't have moved here after spending 4 years here with the services. Just not enough to like/love for me anymore.

I guess my posts would be fine if I raved about Spain, how great it is, how well the government is run, how friendly all the people are, and how beautiful the beaches are (though, Costa Rica beaches beat them hands down). I'll keep that in mind and just post pleasant posts and tout how special Spain is.:hail:


----------



## el romeral

arbucklemw said:


> Also, with regards to kicking the host country in the nutz.....back to that. Everyone on the forum needs to hear the bad, not just the good, to get a clear picture of what they "might" encounter should they be deciding to move to a country.
> 
> Like I said, I was stationed here twice, for a total of 4-years, so not like I was coming in blind. BUT, I had no idea just how bad the Spanish bureaucracy and ineptitude could be. Yes, not everyone encounters it at the same level as I did, but I did.
> 
> So, just passing on my experience here and including my take/opinion/nut shot Spain...which is now the complete opposite of what it used to be.


I hear what you are saying:amen:. I used to have days and weeks feeling like this too. Now it is just about all of the time and I have been here 14 years. Unlikely to move even if I wanted to due to house price situation and children's educationlayball:.


----------



## xabiaxica

arbucklemw said:


> There's actually a lot I like about Spain....obviously.....or I wouldn't have moved here after spending 4 years here with the services. Just not enough to like/love for me anymore.
> 
> I guess my posts would be fine if I raved about Spain, how great it is, how well the government is run, how friendly all the people are, and how beautiful the beaches are (though, Costa Rica beaches beat them hands down). I'll keep that in mind and just post pleasant posts and tout how special Spain is.:hail:


lol - we all have a moan about things often enough - but I guess for those of us who stay they're worth putting up with!

either that or we've been here so long we don't notice any more.....

often though, when people come on the forum & we 'tell it like it is' as far as unemployment, paperwork, bureaucracy etc. is concerned, we all but get accused of telling lies  

so it seems we can't win


----------



## VFR

arbucklemw said:


> There's actually a lot I like about Spain....obviously.....or I wouldn't have moved here after spending 4 years here with the services. Just not enough to like/love for me anymore.
> 
> I guess my posts would be fine if I raved about Spain, how great it is, how well the government is run, how friendly all the people are, and how beautiful the beaches are (though, Costa Rica beaches beat them hands down). I'll keep that in mind and just post pleasant posts and tout how special Spain is.:hail:


Now you are over reacting & the vast bulk of members want/need to know just what issues may face them etc.

This little snippet you wrote from post 36 caught my eye hence my comment about kicking Spain in the nuts.
............................................
>was stationed in Spain 2 times for 2 years each time and loved it. Living here as a resident and dealing with the above BS has done it for me. There's a reason the Spanish economy is in the state it's in, and as far as I'm concerned, they deserve every cent of their economic troubles. My wife and I both have pensions, hers from the UK, mine from the US, so you would think they would welcome the additional money coming into the country, what little it may be. But, we're taking our money and running.

If the entire Spanish economy collapses upon itself, I will find it extremely hard to keep from falling to the floor and laughing my a-- off! <
............................................

Yes of course being stationed here in the past was a breeze (as you Americans say) as everything is done for you (is it not ?)
Now had you been made to go out and shop / find a contractor / etc etc I fancy you would not have had such a good time ?.


----------



## jojo

playamonte said:


> Now you are over reacting & the vast bulk of members want/need to know just what issues may face them etc.
> 
> This little snippet you wrote from post 36 caught my eye hence my comment about kicking Spain in the nuts.
> ............................................
> >was stationed in Spain 2 times for 2 years each time and loved it. Living here as a resident and dealing with the above BS has done it for me. There's a reason the Spanish economy is in the state it's in, and as far as I'm concerned, they deserve every cent of their economic troubles. My wife and I both have pensions, hers from the UK, mine from the US, so you would think they would welcome the additional money coming into the country, what little it may be. But, we're taking our money and running.
> 
> If the entire Spanish economy collapses upon itself, I will find it extremely hard to keep from falling to the floor and laughing my a-- off! <
> ............................................
> 
> Yes of course being stationed here in the past was a breeze (as you Americans say) as everything is done for you (is it not ?)
> Now had you been made to go out and shop / find a contractor / etc etc I fancy you would not have had such a good time ?.



Hey, he's not really saying anything more than anyone else has - of course we shouldnt knock Spain per se, but it sometimes does seem to be its own worst enemy. Plus this chap has the added issues of not being an EU citizen! That said, it is a beautiful country, but a harsh one!!!

Jo xxx


----------



## gus-lopez

arbucklemw said:


> As for shifting a bike the states, if all of the paperwork is in order, I believe it would be a breeze, nothing like here.


You'd be sadly wrong , unfortunately. You probably wouldn't even have seen the bike for months/years , if ever. Probably different for you as you are taking back something you brought out.
I use a UK based worldwide car forum & many , many contributors in the UK import from the states on a monthly basis ,container loads of vehicles & spares, & with great assistance from the US contributors.Never a problem.

The US posters on the other hand have given up trying to get ANYTHING into the US from the Uk or Europe. It's not just one area either as they are north ,south, east & west & all basically have never ever managed to get anything in, be it vehicles or spares. 
The Canadians say it is even worse up there !


----------



## arbucklemw

gus-lopez said:


> You'd be sadly wrong , unfortunately. You probably wouldn't even have seen the bike for months/years , if ever. Probably different for you as you are taking back something you brought out.
> I use a UK based worldwide car forum & many , many contributors in the UK import from the states on a monthly basis ,container loads of vehicles & spares, & with great assistance from the US contributors.Never a problem.
> 
> The US posters on the other hand have given up trying to get ANYTHING into the US from the Uk or Europe. It's not just one area either as they are north ,south, east & west & all basically have never ever managed to get anything in, be it vehicles or spares.
> The Canadians say it is even worse up there !


I was looking at what it would take to get my bike back to the states last week, but as I brought it from there and have the purchase receipts from Virginia as well as all other paperwork I've made sure to keep regarding the bike. It looks to be fairly simple, especially since that's where it originated.

I've never seen anyone have issues importing a car to the states, from Japan or the EU. I did have a friend try to bring in an old Russian sonobuoy, and that one didn't make it through customs.

As far as shipping in foreign cars, I also came across a list of allowed vehicles and unallowed vehicles for import. Many of the unallowed were due to lack of meeting safety requirements.

If it were just the bike I had had problems with, that'd be one thing and easy enough to accept and move on. It has just been one thing after another with the authorities here. No need to go further than I have in previous posts as what's done is done, and not much to do to change our minds. We came over so my wife would be closer to family in the UK, without the UK weather. She was far more fed up with the system here than me, and a lot sooner.

On the brighter side.....weather was good enough today to take a ride on the motorcycle to break in the new front tire. 1st time I've been able to legally (minus a Spanish drivers license) ride it since it arrived to us on July 3rd, other than getting it over to the mechanic for its ITV.


----------



## Hombre62

arbucklemw said:


> On the brighter side.....weather was good enough today to take a ride on the motorcycle to break in the new front tire. 1st time I've been able to legally (minus a Spanish drivers license) ride it since it arrived to us on July 3rd, other than getting it over to the mechanic for its ITV.


I hope that put a stupid grin on your face, and made the world seem just a little better place.


----------



## arbucklemw

Hombre62 said:


> I hope that put a stupid grin on your face, and made the world seem just a little better place.


Yeah, especially considering I'm over my 6 month license mark and I hit the 1st roundabout 1km from my home and what do they have setup.....yep, a check point. They didn't stop me, but figured that would've about been my luck.:faint:


----------



## XTreme

arbucklemw said:


> Yeah, especially considering I'm over my 6 month license mark and I hit the 1st roundabout 1km from my home and what do they have setup.....yep, a check point. They didn't stop me, but figured that would've about been my luck.:faint:


They pretty much ignore you on a bike unless you do something blatantly stupid in front of them.

I've been pulled once in 8 years for not having lights on in the day not long after I got here. They just reminded me to put them on at all times and that was it!

And I'd get pulled about twice a year in the UK for spot checks on paperwork, number plate sizes, illegal exhausts, dark visors etc.

Offroading no problem here! Do it in the UK and you'll get your bike crushed!

So it ain't all bad!


----------



## Madliz

gus-lopez said:


> You'd be sadly wrong , unfortunately. You probably wouldn't even have seen the bike for months/years , if ever. Probably different for you as you are taking back something you brought out.
> I use a UK based worldwide car forum & many , many contributors in the UK import from the states on a monthly basis ,container loads of vehicles & spares, & with great assistance from the US contributors.Never a problem.
> 
> The US posters on the other hand have given up trying to get ANYTHING into the US from the Uk or Europe. It's not just one area either as they are north ,south, east & west & all basically have never ever managed to get anything in, be it vehicles or spares.
> The Canadians say it is even worse up there !


We exported a motorbike from here to the US recently. It went by van to near Heathrow, where it was crated, then shipped (or is it 'aired'?  ) to Florida. It was collected by the happy new owner and ridden home. Of course, the paperwork has to be perfect, but a good shipping company helps. UK companies seem more equipped to do this sort of thing; I've given up with Spanish companies - they often never reply to enquiries or make it sound impossible.


----------



## arbucklemw

Madliz said:


> We exported a motorbike from here to the US recently. It went by van to near Heathrow, where it was crated, then shipped (or is it 'aired'?  ) to Florida. It was collected by the happy new owner and ridden home. Of course, the paperwork has to be perfect, but a good shipping company helps. UK companies seem more equipped to do this sort of thing; I've given up with Spanish companies - they often never reply to enquiries or make it sound impossible.


My shipping company was great, picking the bike up in Denver, then delivering it to Valencia. Cleared customs easily, no paperwork issues,, and duty/tax free as a residence change.

The problems started when it arrived to me in Andalusia with the "get to it later" attitudes more than anything else. Again, all paperwork was in order and as soon as something needed changed on the bike, it was done. No mechanical changes required by ITV, just one light disconnected and another light replaced. Within the same week as those, the engineer provided the Spanish spec sheet for ITV. Yet, it took from July 3rd to Sept. 11th to get the final ITV sign-off.

No problems now. Already contacted the shipper who brought the bike over to see where they ship from in Europe so we can tour Europe on the bike before shipping it back out after the summer. Financially, we'll take the hit vs. continuing to bang our heads against the wall here. Funny thing is, we're pretty done with all of the paperwork for everything, and have my residency, but we've soured on a place I used to love.


----------



## Madliz

I've been trying to get quotes for crating and shipping (boat, this time!) a bike from Spain to the USA. All three companies that I contacted - one in Barcelona and two in Valencia - advertised that they shipped to the state concerned. The first replied 'no', the second got befuddled but when I pointed it out that it was just one motorbike, Spain to US (how hard can it be?), promised to get back to me (two days ago, nothing yet) and the third never replied.

If anyone knows a company that would like the business  please let me know!


----------



## VFR

arbucklemw said:


> My shipping company was great, picking the bike up in Denver, then delivering it to Valencia. Cleared customs easily, no paperwork issues,, and duty/tax free as a residence change.
> 
> The problems started when it arrived to me in Andalusia with the "get to it later" attitudes more than anything else. Again, all paperwork was in order and as soon as something needed changed on the bike, it was done. No mechanical changes required by ITV, just one light disconnected and another light replaced. Within the same week as those, the engineer provided the Spanish spec sheet for ITV. Yet, it took from July 3rd to Sept. 11th to get the final ITV sign-off.
> 
> No problems now. Already contacted the shipper who brought the bike over to see where they ship from in Europe so we can tour Europe on the bike before shipping it back out after the summer. Financially, we'll take the hit vs. continuing to bang our heads against the wall here. Funny thing is, we're pretty done with all of the paperwork for everything, and have my residency, but we've soured on a place I used to love.


It was a Harley (correct)
Well these are not classed as motorbikes in Europe but something else hence the delay. 


Ducks for cover !


----------



## arbucklemw

Madliz said:


> I've been trying to get quotes for crating and shipping (boat, this time!) a bike from Spain to the USA. All three companies that I contacted - one in Barcelona and two in Valencia - advertised that they shipped to the state concerned. The first replied 'no', the second got befuddled but when I pointed it out that it was just one motorbike, Spain to US (how hard can it be?), promised to get back to me (two days ago, nothing yet) and the third never replied.
> 
> If anyone knows a company that would like the business  please let me know!


I used Schumacher Cargo to get my bike to Spain. Have a request using their online form that I sent earlier in the week to get a quote for shipping back. They shipped into Valencia, so assuming it'll ship out of the same. Though, I'm also going to ask about where else they ship from in the EU as we'll be touring this summer before sending it back.

Someone mentioned/asked about it being a Harley....yep, the big one. We had a Yamaha for a while, but my wife has a really bad back and even with some extra additions and changes to the suspension, she still couldn't be on it for more than a few hours. We tested out several different bikes, but the one we ended up with, after dropping the seat back a few inches, she literally falls asleep on the back sometimes. I usually don't know she's asleep until I hit my brakes. I keep telling her that if anything major ever comes up, her asleep on the back isn't going to help.

I'm not a Harley fanatic, but a comfortable ride is a comfortable ride no matter what emblem is on the bike.


----------



## arbucklemw

Price to get the bike here from California to Valencia was US$750.00 That was dropping it off with them. I had them pick it up in Denver, and that cost me almost as much just to get it to the Cali coast.

They have other ports they ship out of in the US.


----------



## Madliz

Thanks for that information, I've contacted Schumacher. It may be easier to 'pull it in' to the States rather than 'push it away' from Spain.


----------



## arbucklemw

Madliz said:


> Thanks for that information, I've contacted Schumacher. It may be easier to 'pull it in' to the States rather than 'push it away' from Spain.


Other than a bit of dust, my bike arrived without a mark on it.

The only problem I had with Schumacher was them keeping me informed when there were delays. The cargo ship was delayed, and when I'd contact them to find out the status after checking the status online and seeing no change, they would tell me when they expected it to ship out....one time, being the next day after they received one more car to load....only to call again a few weeks later and the bike was still sitting in California. They had the bike picked up at the end of March, and it arrived in Valencia at the end of June. Their 6-week expected delivery turned into 12-weeks. Not a huge problem, and since they're shipping far more than my bike, understandable from their side that it'd be hard to keep everyone in the loop regarding delays.


----------



## Sheepdog

Greetings folks...

'Sorry to resurrect a somewhat dead thread, but I guess that's what I am going here. 

I'm an American who's now living in both the Sevilla and Cadiz (arbucklemw, we're probably very close) areas who is missing having bugs in my teeth. I've skimmed this tread, and will read it in more detail when the boss (wife) gets off the "will you please focus on something other than riding"rant! 

I'm bumping this thread to ask if anyone has any updates to this. I'm a 30 year rider who really doesn't want to start on the moped route. We're here for another 2 - 3 years and I haven't begun the residency, yet... Maybe I hold off until I can get a path set with the 2 wheeled route? Or try to get an EU license? I know, I will read this thread more carefully once I´m less ADD and more patient. It's just the thought of riding in nothing but a cage for the next few years is killing me. If you ride, I know you can understand that.



Ride safe, 

Sheepdog


----------



## xabiaxica

Sheepdog said:


> Greetings folks...
> 
> 'Sorry to resurrect a somewhat dead thread, but I guess that's what I am going here.
> 
> I'm an American who's now living in both the Sevilla and Cadiz (arbucklemw, we're probably very close) areas who is missing having bugs in my teeth. I've skimmed this tread, and will read it in more detail when the boss (wife) gets off the "will you please focus on something other than riding"rant!
> 
> I'm bumping this thread to ask if anyone has any updates to this. I'm a 30 year rider who really doesn't want to start on the moped route. We're here for another 2 - 3 years and I haven't begun the residency, yet... Maybe I hold off until I can get a path set with the 2 wheeled route? Or try to get an EU license? I know, I will read this thread more carefully once I´m less ADD and more patient. It's just the thought of riding in nothing but a cage for the next few years is killing me. If you ride, I know you can understand that.
> 
> 
> 
> Ride safe,
> 
> Sheepdog


:welcome:

as an American you have to take a driving test anyway - you can only use your current licence for 6 months

so when you take that test, do the one which entitles you to ride whatever size bike you want


----------



## Sheepdog

I appreciate the quick reply. Don't mind the tests (written or riding)... but the gent who helped my wife get her US car legal here (and she's a Spaniard) told me I'd have to go the A2 (I think they call it) Moped route...


----------

