# Help re land purchase and other questions



## edenmayne (May 14, 2011)

Forgive me if this drags on as I am not sure about some things

My husband is Mexican he lives here in UK not long ago got Indefinate Leave to Remain... all is good. :0)

He has just the last few years been reunited with some of his old family members. One such family member (an uncle) has offered husband some land and an old shed of a house at a cost of 5 thousand pounds. Its in CD Juarez.


To cut a long story short after much debating I decided I should support him in his quest... (very reluctantly...)
And he has been slowly sending money (and trust me we are not loaded) to this uncle toward cost of this land etc. There are no receipts, proof, official paperwork NOTHING.

I just looked on this forum and see that you cannot buy property unless you are a temp or permananet resident. Surely then if he has ILTR visa for here (UK) then he is neither a temp or perm resident of Mexico and therefore cannot buy this land?

Personally I don't feel right about this whole thing. I do not think it is as simple as husband naively thinks..

I really need some insight..advice... pointers.

Thankyou x


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## ZaPatton (Aug 17, 2015)

edenmayne said:


> Forgive me if this drags on as I am not sure about some things
> 
> My husband is Mexican he lives here in UK not long ago got Indefinate Leave to Remain... all is good. :0)
> 
> ...


1st of all Juarez is the most dangerous city in Mexico if not the world. And doing business with family is bad news especially with no legalities on paper. If I were I would stop sending money until you get something legal. Also look else where than Juarez IMO thats the last city in Mexico you want to live.


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## edenmayne (May 14, 2011)

I know all this.... but its like talking to a brick wall.

So it was a case of if you cant beat em join em


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## ZaPatton (Aug 17, 2015)

edenmayne said:


> I know all this.... but its like talking to a brick wall.
> 
> So it was a case of if you cant beat em join em


If you are prisoner to his plan what advice do you need?


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## edenmayne (May 14, 2011)

I was hoping that I could use official facts like you need to be a temp resident atleast to buy... or someone mentioned yesterday that it would cost a further 2,500 pounds to finalise the sale.... generally convincing him in other ways that it is not as simple as handing over 5,000 pounds


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## ZaPatton (Aug 17, 2015)

edenmayne said:


> I was hoping that I could use official facts like you need to be a temp resident atleast to buy... or someone mentioned yesterday that it would cost a further 2,500 pounds to finalise the sale.... generally convincing him in other ways that it is not as simple as handing over 5,000 pounds


This should discourage him. At least to 4 parties should be involved.. Email me if you need more help

MEXonline.com guide to Buying Property in Mexico - Real Estate


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## stanburn (Jan 19, 2009)

If I read your message correctly, he is a Mexican citizen. His immigration status in the UK has no impact on that. As a Mexican citizen he has no restrictions on buying property. Juarez has changed a great deal over the past few years. There is nowhere near the violence as in the past.

I thought it was a nice town, too close to the US for me though.


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## ZaPatton (Aug 17, 2015)

stanburn said:


> If I read your message correctly, he is a Mexican citizen. His immigration status in the UK has no impact on that. As a Mexican citizen he has no restrictions on buying property. Juarez has changed a great deal over the past few years. There is nowhere near the violence as in the past.
> 
> I thought it was a nice town, too close to the US for me though.


U think maybe since she is help paying for it she might want her name on the property so comes in the question of a foreigner buying it.

What was nice about juarez?


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## sparks (Jun 17, 2007)

A foreigner can't buy 100 KM from the border


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

When it comes to Mexicans and their families, common sense often flies out the window! I know of Mexicans living overseas who've sent money back home to buy property with the help of relatives in Mexico, and sometimes the money just disappears or the helpful relative goes on the lam with the money when the expat Mexican comes back for a visit. Hopefully, this may not be the case with your husband's uncle, but I wouldn't count on things going well at this point since the uncle in question has not sent you any proof that the money you've been sending is going anywhere but into his pocket.


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## maesonna (Jun 10, 2008)

To explain further what _stanburn_ said, the restrictions on non-residents buying property apply to foreigners. Your husband being a Mexican national, those restrictions have nothing to do with him. Sorry.


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## ojosazules11 (Nov 3, 2013)

sparks said:


> A foreigner can't buy 100 KM from the border


But the husband is not a foreigner, he's a Mexican national. In terms of his wife being included on the papers for the house, I'm not sure how it would work being on the border. We live in Canada, my husband is Mexican with permanent resident status in Canada, and we bought property in Tepoztlan, Morelos. I have no residency status at all in Mexico, but my name is included on all official documents for the property, including the most recent transaction when we officially registered the property with "Catastro de la Propiedad Social/PROCEDE(Programa de Certificación de Derechos Ejidales y Titulación de Solares)". There seemed to be no issue with me being included on all the papers. I'm presuming that's because I'm married to a Mexican. And the land we purchased is "comunero" (essentially ejido land). For the most recent step in the process, I didn't even have to go sign in person, as we had a Power of Attorney done through the Mexican Consulate in Toronto, so my husband could sign for me.

The only red flag for me in the situation of the OP is lack of anything written, signed and witnessed by at least 2 third party witnesses. Although even in Tepoztlan many transactions, including buying and selling of land, are done based on one's word, that seemed far too risky to us, especially not living there. From the first step of a "Contrato de promesa de compraventa" (Promise to Buy/Sell Contract), through the "ceding of rights" (since it's comunero land, it isn't "sold" but rather the rights to the land are "ceded" to the buyer) we had everything signed, fingerprinted, witnessed and registered with the Justice of Peace at the Casa del Pueblo in Tepoztlan. We had receipts for every money transfer we made. Although technically we didn't have to take the final step of registering with Catastro, we feel a lot more secure after taking this step.

To the OP: it may feel to your husband that if he requires his uncle to provide him something in writing, the uncle may interpret this as lack of trust in his word, and your husband does not want to offend the uncle. If this is the case, I'd suggest two options. One, he can use you and your comfort level with the "British way" of doing things, e.g. signed contracts and receipts for all transactions, as the excuse. Alternatively, what would happen to your agreement (and your money) if anything were to befall the uncle? Will the rest of the family honour the agreement? I'm a generally trusting person, but I definitely wouldn't be sending money without something signed.


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

If married under the community property status the name of the souse does not have to be on the deed for the suse to have a 50% claim to the property. Al of this can get comlicated and the OP needs to speak to a notary. I suggest to the OP to take a vacation to Mexico , see what the uncle is doing and ask all the questions you can think of to the local notary.

I am a French and Mexican citizen, my husband is a US and Mexican ciizen , I just sold some property that was an inheritence from my father and it got really complicated with the French notario, I even was told that my Mexican will was not valid and that I should had write a French will for my husband to have access to the money I have in France and that I never was told in the US or Mexico so get it from the notariops mouth in Mexico. We are married without a contract which can mean different things according to which country you live in and how long you have lived there..get a notario advice not a forum advice.
In your case I would follow ojoazules´" I am a trusting person but.." and would not send any money until I knew what the situation is and what the local notario said. Get a translator when there , do not let some family member do the translation. It will look weird but afterall you are a foreigner with strange customs.


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

The other way to look at it for the sake of the eace in the marriage is to let your husband buy the 5000pounds roperty and be ready mentally to lose it or never see the money and forget it..it all depends on how you feel about it.


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## RVGRINGO (May 16, 2007)

Without at least an agreement to purchase, prepared by a Mexican Notario, the husband has nothing at all......nothing.


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## ojosazules11 (Nov 3, 2013)

I'm in complete agreement with Citlali about needing a Mexican will for Mexican property. If both names are on the deed, you should each have a will naming the other as heir. You should also each have a Mexican Power of Attorney for the other regarding the property, so that if one becomes incapacitated, the other can make decisions regarding the property, including selling it. However, the POA is only valid if the other is alive. If one spouse dies without a Mexican will, from what I've been told (at the Mexican Consulate) is that it can be a time-consuming and potentially costly legal process for the surviving spouse to have clear sole title to the property.


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

Yes a will is a must if you want to have access to that property.


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

citlali said:


> Yes a will is a must if you want to have access to that property.


My only thought on this is that while £5000 is a lot of money, depending on the financial situation of the Original Poster, it may not be worth all of the paperwork, conflict with relatives and heartache. 

Can she afford to just look at the money as a gift to her in-laws and if she gets a house that they can use, wonderful. If not, the in-laws owe her a big favor. A bigger reason to keep tabs on it, to my mind, is not the question of legal title but rather just questions of good faith. I would want to insure that I wasn't being taken for a ride.


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## sparks (Jun 17, 2007)

ojosazules11 said:


> But the husband is not a foreigner, he's a Mexican national. In terms of his wife being included on the papers for the house, I'm not sure how it would work being on the border.


I realize but there was some confusion about who was doing the buying


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

TundraGreen said:


> My only thought on this is that while £5000 is a lot of money, depending on the financial situation of the Original Poster, it may not be worth all of the paperwork, conflict with relatives and heartache.
> 
> Can she afford to just look at the money as a gift to her in-laws and if she gets a house that they can use, wonderful. If not, the in-laws owe her a big favor. A bigger reason to keep tabs on it, to my mind, is not the question of legal title but rather just questions of good faith. I would want to insure that I wasn't being taken for a ride.


I have no doubt the uncle of the OP's husband thinks that because his nephew is living in England, he has plenty of money, and that because of family ties and loyalties, some of it should be used to help out his less-well-off relatives in Mexico.


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## Waller52 (Jun 17, 2015)

edenmayne said:


> I know all this.... but its like talking to a brick wall.
> 
> So it was a case of if you cant beat em join em


I'm sorry but if you can't talk to your husband about this issue and your response is to let him do what he wants regardless of the nonsensical nature of his actions, there is nothing anyone on this forum can do for you except to wish you both the best of luck.


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

A will no matter in what country is a good idea if you own any property. We first made a will when we were in our thirties.. if a couple cannot agree on that maybe they should review their relationship.
Agreed about being mentally ready to forget about the 5000 pounds incase the deal goes south will prevent a lot of stress but in a marriage one party cannot discuss a decision that affect both parties then there is a whole lot bigger problem than the 5000 pounds.

Only the OP can judge for herself what the best thing to do is.


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## ojosazules11 (Nov 3, 2013)

Isla Verde said:


> I have no doubt the uncle of the OP's husband thinks that because his nephew is living in England, he has plenty of money, and that because of family ties and loyalties, some of it should be used to help out his less-well-off relatives in Mexico.





Waller52 said:


> I'm sorry but if you can't talk to your husband about this issue and your response is to let him do what he wants regardless of the nonsensical nature of his actions, there is nothing anyone on this forum can do for you except to wish you both the best of luck.


I'm feeling a little "cringey" at some of our assumptions and ascribing of motive, both about the uncle and the OP's husband. Having spent nearly all my adult life in a cross-cultural relationship/ marriage I learned long ago not to presume something was nonsensical, just because it didn't make sense to me or my cultural frame of reference. The road to that conclusion was not without rocky patches, and I still sometimes hit a cultural brick wall that can take me by surprise. 

What I learned was to look deeper and try to understand why something that seemed ridiculous or simply wrong-headed to me made sense to the other person. By finally seeing where the other person was coming from, I was able to better understand the underlying culture as well. 

In this case, I would want to know why hubby doesn't want to request a signed agreement or receipts. I don't think it's fair to presume that Tio Fulano is taking them for a ride. I've known many Mexicans who consider their _palabra_ (word) to be worth far more than a piece of paper._ "Somos pobres pero honrados"_ (We may be poor but we are honourable.) I've also known plenty who are _trácalas y transeros_ (con artists). To be perfectly honest I'd take the word of the former over the signed contract of the latter. 

My advice to the OP is to find out what is at the root of her husband's reluctance towards the paperwork. Maybe the uncle is like a father figure to him, and it just feels too weird to be asking him for paperwork as if he doesn't trust him. That's where the "use me as the foreigner with weird cultural assumptions" excuse comes in. Or the "what if something - God forbid - happens to Tio" line of reasoning. If hubby completely trusts Uncle, and he thinks his wife is requesting everything written because she doesn't trust him, he may become more entrenched in his position. If she approaches it as a cross-cultural difference that is keeping her awake at night - WITHOUT asserting that her position is the "correct" one and his is clearly wrong - they may begin to make progress in finding some middle ground.


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

ojosazules11 said:


> . . .
> In this case, I would want to know why hubby doesn't want to request a signed agreement or receipts. . . .
> My advice to the OP is to find out what is at the root of her husband's reluctance towards the paperwork. . .


Ojos, I have the utmost respect for your personal knowledge of and sensitivity to the cultural differences that the OP and her husband have to deal with. But let's keep in mind what the OP said in her second post: " . . . but its like talking to a brick wall. So it was a case of if you cant beat em join em." It sounds to me like her husband just refuses to listen to her concerns about this land purchase deal the uncle has organized. How do you suggest she deal with that?


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## Cristobal (Nov 25, 2014)

Isla Verde said:


> I have no doubt the uncle of the OP's husband thinks that because his nephew is living in England, he has plenty of money, and that because of family ties and loyalties, some of it should be used to help out his less-well-off relatives in Mexico.


That is quite an assumption. The OP has made no mention of the economic status of the family in Mexico. For all anyone knows, the uncle and/or the other relatives are better off than the nephew in GB. I know a whole lot of people in this country that 5000 pounds to them is a fairly insignificant amount of money. Maybe he is getting a good deal on the property because he is a relative. My father in law sold cheaply or gave away quite a bunch of properties to family members.

The situation could be very well as you assume, but then again, maybe not.


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## ojosazules11 (Nov 3, 2013)

Isla Verde said:


> Ojos, I have the utmost respect for your personal knowledge of and sensitivity to the cultural differences that the OP and her husband have to deal with. But let's keep in mind what the OP said in her second post: " . . . but its like talking to a brick wall. So it was a case of if you cant beat em join em." It sounds to me like her husband just refuses to listen to her concerns about this land purchase deal the uncle has organized. How do you suggest she deal with that?


It sounds as if he's dead set on buying the land. That may be one of those things that you sometimes just grin and bear in a marriage - like my husband not really understanding why I paid a pretty penny to bring a century old piano from my childhood home in Nebraska to Toronto and have it totally refurbished by a great piano technician here. A divorce is way more expensive than my restored piano or the piece of land in C. Juarez, so sometimes you just go with the flow and hope it all works out. (In my case, it did - my husband loves listening to the kids and me play the piano.)

The part I think many of us are wondering about is his refusal to get a signed agreement and receipts for money sent. That is where I think the OP may be able to negotiate, or at least try to figure out WHY he wants to just send the money with no paperwork. At least if the papers are in order the OP can have some peace of mind, hopefully. Of course, I'm doing my own psychological speculation about his motives, but it's just that - speculation. I'm really quite curious about this, as it seems eminently reasonable to me to request them. 

But that's just my point - how many times has "eminently reasonable" in my opinion come head to head with completely different cultural expectations and values. So I'd try to again have a conversation with hubby, trying not to convey that "I'm right and you're wrong" but rather genuinely asking him what his reasons are for not wanting to ask for receipts, etc. If he gets all defensive, it may be that he doesn't have a good reason but maybe is uncomfortable asking this of a relative he's just recently reunited with.


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

Rich or poor you have honest people and greedy and dishonnest ones. I know of a lawyer who was put in charge of his father estate because he was more knowledgeable , he was so knowledgeable that he kept a ll the money of the estate for himself, he also received money from one of his sibbling who was in the States and never did what he said he was doing. When the brother came back, he had no money and no house... Anything can happen when you turn in your affairs to someone else.
In this case it is all up to the uncle and if the OP does not know the uncle I can see why she would have questions.


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## sunnyvmx (Mar 14, 2010)

My question is about the property itself. "Sight unseen" is never a good idea and very risky. Do you know if there is clean water available, road access, clear title, available electricity etc..? How do you know if it's a place where you would want to live someday? Build a house? Find work?
For me, I would not invest another Pound until I visited and saw the land. I would think the Uncle would understand that reasoning and your husband too.


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

These are ****** /a questions..first of all many families in Mexico do not move for generations so they know every piece of land that may come up for sale better than the owner, we or the op do not know about all these things but I bet the uncle does know and has shared whatever knowledge he has with his nephew. 
Wether it is a place where the OP would like to have a house is another thing as her values are no doub different than that of the uncle. 
The nephew and uncle probably discussed the lot so maybe the OP could tell her husband she would love to see pictures of the lot and hear more about it and find out if it is something she might like although I get the impression that her liking it or not is not part of the equation.
What we do not know either is how the husband looks at the money , is it a community property or his to decide what to do with..we do not know anything about the arrangements between husband and wife so it is difficult to offer much advice.

It reminds me of a situation I observed while living in England in a boarding house kept by a mix couple , the woman was English the "husband" Pakistani. They pooled their money and he bought a house , had a child and were renting rooms to students like me.
One day I saw the landlady crying downstairs and she told me that Hussein had left to go back to Pakistan to get married to the girl he had been engaged with by his family . Then another Pakistani came in and announced he was a friend of Hussein, had bought the house and he was the new owner. He was going to allow the woman and the child of his friend to remain and run the house but he would be collecting the rents.. the woman went bezerk, I thought she was going to kill him.
The friend told me East is east and West is West and never shall the two meet.. He did not understand whty the woman was angry as he was trying to help her ..
I left the place..but several months later I met my ex landy who told me her boyfriend had gone to Pakistan paid off the family of the bride and come back to marry her and she was all happy..did not ask about the house .. but the two guys were happy as clams and thought they were good guys and the woman thought they had behaved horribly...that can be the fun of getting married to someone from a different culture..

If the risk is 5000 pounds it is not the end of the world but then the OP may have to pay for every cement block or brick for the construction of the house after that...although that may not come up for years. Only the husband can answer those questions but meanwhile the wife shoud have a Mexican will.


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