# Elope/Spouse visa



## yunnipie (May 12, 2014)

Greetings! We have done a bit of research on visas and marriage between a UK citizen and a US citizen, but are hoping for a little bit of help. So happy to have found this site and so many helpful forums! My boyfriend and I are talking about possibly eloping when he come to visit the US in August. After that, we are trying to figure out which way is best for us to continue our relationship. We are both open to living in either country. Here are our questions/concerns:
1.	As of his visit, we will have known each other for about 8 months, and it will be our second time seeing each other in person. Could this be of a concern in regards to their consideration of the validity of our relationship?
2.	With him (the UK citizen) coming to the states, does he need any special visas if we decide to marry, or just the one that permits him to enter the states?
3.	I am divorced. I can provide a court certified copy of the divorce decree, will that be enough to prove that the relationship is dissolved? Also, the divorce has only been official since October of 2013, but the document indicates that we have been separated since June of 2013. Will the length of time be of any concern in the visa process?
4.	He has a daughter that lives in the States with her mother. Would this aide his visa request?
5.	Can he stay here with me until the visa is approved?
6.	Finally…everything that I find indicates that a visa to the US for a spouse takes a very long time – over a year. Is this accurate, or do I just happen to find all of the worst case scenarios?
Thank you so very much. I have been unable to find much information on the US visa.


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## BBCWatcher (Dec 28, 2012)

yunnipie said:


> 1.	As of his visit, we will have known each other for about 8 months, and it will be our second time seeing each other in person. Could this be of a concern in regards to their consideration of the validity of our relationship?


Could be.



> 2.	With him (the UK citizen) coming to the states, does he need any special visas if we decide to marry, or just the one that permits him to enter the states?


He needs no special visa to marry in the United States...and then leave, within the time permitted for his stay.



> 3.	I am divorced. I can provide a court certified copy of the divorce decree, will that be enough to prove that the relationship is dissolved?


For marriage? That's entirely up to the state where you're marrying, but that sounds like it'll be fine.



> Also, the divorce has only been official since October of 2013, but the document indicates that we have been separated since June of 2013. Will the length of time be of any concern in the visa process?


I doubt it.



> 4.	He has a daughter that lives in the States with her mother. Would this aide his visa request?


Only if that daughter is sponsoring him. It doesn't hurt, though.



> 5.	Can he stay here with me until the visa is approved?


The short answer is no.



> 6.	Finally…everything that I find indicates that a visa to the US for a spouse takes a very long time – over a year. Is this accurate, or do I just happen to find all of the worst case scenarios?


It is accurate that it takes a long time. A year would not be surprising.

I do have a suggestion for you if you'd like to stay together right away after marrying: move to any European Union country except the U.K. with your (apostilled) U.S. marriage certificate and U.S. passport (and him with his U.K. passport). As long as he's economically self-sufficient, he -- and through him, you, his legal foreign sposue -- have that treaty right to reside together in your chosen EU/EEA country (except the U.K.) There's no visa or other prearrangement required (given that U.S. citizens already have the right to enter the EU legally), although he and you would have to follow residential registration formalities in your chosen country once you arrive. You can then wait out a U.S. visa from there if you wish.

Another option is that you could sponsor him for a K-1 visa. That takes about the same amount of time, but then once approved he arrives in the U.S., marries you, and stays in the U.S.


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## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

Be careful how you choose to carry out your plans. I see a couple potential problems with the options you are considering.

Normally, it's best to apply for a "fiancé visa" for the country in which you plan on settling after the wedding. Yes, this can take 6 months to a year or more to process - and the sponsoring partner (you, if you're getting him a visa for the US; him, if you want to settle in the UK) has to show that they have adequate financial resources to serve as sponsor. This is where the validity of your relationship may come into question, given its relatively short duration and the fact that you haven't seen much of each other face to face.

It's probably not a great idea to "elope" as you put it. If he enters the US on a VWP (i.e. 90 day stamp in the passport) and you wind up getting married, there is the suspicion that he lied to Immigration on entry to the country (i.e. was intending to get married all along) and that can get his long stay visa request denied. As BBCWatcher says, if you go this route, he should plan on returning to the UK while you file the paperwork to sponsor him for a US visa - or while he files back in the UK for a spouse visa for you. You do your waiting before or after the wedding - your choice.

As far as going to a "neutral third country" is concerned, be careful which one you choose. The wait for a US visa will still be the same, and some European countries are stricter than others on the matter of your "settling" there with your EU national spouse. The UK is starting to require proof that you are actually "resident" in the other country before they'll entertain a spouse visa application. And I can tell you that France won't grant the residence permit to the non-EU spouse unless the EU spouse has a "statut" in France - which means he would have to find a job, take up studies and/or have some source of financial support backing up his claim of residence in France and thus your claim to a residence permit.

In the long run, it's probably easiest to file the appropriate paperwork and wait out the processing period. Six months to a year seems like a long time - but it's probably better than risking a ban or other immigration problems on either side.
Cheers,
Bev


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## BBCWatcher (Dec 28, 2012)

Bevdeforges said:


> The UK is starting to require proof that you are actually "resident" in the other country before they'll entertain a spouse visa application.


I excluded the U.K. in the above remarks. The U.K. is permitted to require its own citizens to jump through extra hoops when trying to bring their foreign spouses to the U.K., and it does.



> And I can tell you that France won't grant the residence permit to the non-EU spouse unless the EU spouse has a "statut" in France - which means he would have to find a job, take up studies and/or have some source of financial support backing up his claim of residence in France and thus your claim to a residence permit.


Yes, that's called being "economically self-sufficient," exactly what I wrote above. Provided that condition is satisfied, and provided basic formalities are followed in country (also referred to above), no problem. Thousands of EU status individuals and households follow these steps every day. This is an EU treaty right we're talking about here, not neurosurgery.


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## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

BBCWatcher said:


> I excluded the U.K. in the above remarks. The U.K. is permitted to require its own citizens to jump through extra hoops when trying to bring their foreign spouses to the U.K., and it does.


I wasn't talking about moving to the UK. We've seen some cases here on the forum where in attempting to use the Singh procedure, there is the need to prove a "legitimate residence" rather than just six months of physical presence in an EU country (not the UK). This usually involves showing some form of ties - like a job, studies or other reason for living in the country.



> Yes, that's called being "economically self-sufficient," exactly what I wrote above. Provided that condition is satisfied, and provided basic formalities are followed in country (also referred to above), no problem. Thousands of EU status individuals and households follow these steps every day. This is an EU treaty right we're talking about here, not neurosurgery.


Each country in the EU has its own variation on the EU treaty "right" - at least as far as procedure is concerned. There has long been some concern that France's procedure isn't exactly in keeping with the treaty intention, but fighting that through if you're denied the residence permit takes a WHOLE lot longer than just applying for the US or UK visa in the first place. I'm speaking solely from the practical side of the issue, not the theoretical "rights." 

When you live in France, you learn to choose your battles carefully.
Cheers,
Bev


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## BBCWatcher (Dec 28, 2012)

Bevdeforges said:


> We've seen some cases here on the forum where in attempting to use the Singh procedure....


There is no Surinder Singh route implied here. It's only settlement elsewhere in the European Union, either permanently or pending U.S. spousal visa approval. It's entirely viable and legal.

Nor is any battle implied here either. To review, the core requirements are economic self-sufficiency (at or above the country's social welfare minimum), proof of legal marriage (opposite sex, or same sex if recognized in the particular country), legal entry into the country, and registration of residency (if the country has a residential registration system). Yes, agreed, one must meet the prerequisites and follow the standard procedures. Yes, agreed, individuals/households that don't meet one or more prerequisites and/or don't register could have problems exercising their EU treaty rights.

You know what? There are no treaty rights except this one. _Every other option_ available to this couple is _entirely_ discretionary. A U.S. citizen does not have any right, treaty or otherwise, to bring his/her foreign spouse into the U.S., and a U.K. citizen is in the same situation in the U.K.

So, some perspective is in order here. Yes, of course, satisfy the prerequisites and follow the very few procedural rules -- that's a given. Beyond that, congratulations to the couple and our best wishes, right?


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## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

Just to clarify my comments here. If they choose to "settle" in France to wait out whatever visa they choose to go for, the US citizen will be limited to 90 days (which is not long enough to process either a UK or US spouse visa application) unless they can succeed in obtaining a carte de séjour as the spouse of an EU national. From experience here on the forums, it appears that some prefectures can be real sticklers on the "statut" requirement.

I would advise not trying to wait out the application process in France, due to the uncertainties in obtaining a carte de séjour (residence visa) under the circumstances described. I have no idea if France is the only EU (or Schengen) country with this type of issue, but it would probably be a good idea to check the specific requirements in any country you were considering during the "wait period." (If they choose to go that route.)
Cheers,
Bev


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## Davis1 (Feb 20, 2009)

for a fiancee visa 
K1 Visa Process Flowchart and Timeline

US Citizen can apply for a special visa to allow a non-citizen (their fiancée) to enter the country in order to get married to a US citizen inside the US.

Once issued, the K1 visa will allow the non-citizen to enter the United States legally, for 90 days in order for the marriage ceremony to take place. Once you marry, the non-citizen can remain in the US and may apply for permanent residence. While USCIS processes the application, the non-citizen can remain in the US legally
The US citizen income must meet the require minimum to fulfill the affidavit of support
currently $19660 


the visa will take 8 -10 months 
here must have a clean police record 
you must earn enough 

marriage after 2 meetings to me is ludicrous ...
but I am old fashioned


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## BBCWatcher (Dec 28, 2012)

Bevdeforges said:


> If they choose to "settle" in France to wait out whatever visa they choose to go for, the US citizen will be limited to 90 days (which is not long enough to process either a UK or US spouse visa application) unless they can succeed in obtaining a carte de séjour as the spouse of an EU national.


Why is settle in quotation marks? And who said anything specifically about France? A married couple with at least one EU citizen has a right to settle in the EU, no quotation marks, full stop. There are (a few) clear prerequisites, yes, and residence registration formalities, yes.

Here's the bottom line. If this couple wants to live together _immediately_ as a married couple, it's the only possible legal option available. That's why I described it. It's more than relevant in the circumstances, and it's not a particularly strange, difficult, or alien feat. It's routine and normal. Excepting perhaps a small, backward village or three in France -- who knows? -- but that's beside the point.

If anybody else has a better option to offer, feel free. However, in the spirit of promoting happy and successful marriages, it's a damn good option.


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## twostep (Apr 3, 2008)

Yunniepie

Why do you not learn a bit about the actual options? travel.state.gov is an official site, Google the US Embassy closest to you as that site will give a lot of information, all will link to uscis.gov. The bottom line is K1 or CR1. 

There is no romantic "we elope visa". It is all cut and dry. Sorry! These sites walk you through from soup to nuts; from petition to interview. Yes, both of you will need to proof that your divorces are legally final. No, a child under 21 cannot sponsor a parent. Depending on his individual situation he may have to work something out about child support if he goes the K1 route and will not be working for several months. Late child support is a big no in the US.


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## twostep (Apr 3, 2008)

What good are potential options of how to work around getting the appropriate visa to the US when OP asks how to get her future spouse to the US? Yes, if you have the funds and desire to uproot two households and more or less temporarily settle somewhere you do not want to go to in the first place - it may work. And then? You are back to Square One - somewhere in Europe and those borders have been getting tighter recently.


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## yunnipie (May 12, 2014)

Thank you all for the information. The reason for coming to this site and asking the questions in the forum is that we need clarification. I can assure you that neither of us wants to breaks any laws, or skirt the system - we are just looking for a better understanding from those who have experience in it. As previously stated, we haven't been able to find much information on the US side of the visas - thank you for giving direction there as to which visa and such.

As to the fiance visa, I was under the impression that the purpose was to allow someone into the nation so that they may make and execute plans for a wedding ceremony. As neither of us want a tradition to-do, the need for this was over looked. However, the responses still have me a little confused. If he comes to the US on a visitors visa, are we permitted to marry (ie, Vegas, court house, etc.) if he returns home and we undergo the spousal visa process from there? 

Again, thank you all for your help with this.


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## Davis1 (Feb 20, 2009)

yunnipie said:


> . If he comes to the US on a visitors visa, are we permitted to marry (ie, Vegas, court house, etc.) if he returns home and we undergo the spousal visa process from there?


if you don't get denied entry ... yes you can marry ....then he returns home and you file for the spousal visa ... takes about a year

spousal visa CR1
Immigrant Visa for a Spouse of a U.S. Citizen (IR1 or CR1)


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## yunnipie (May 12, 2014)

OK, that is how I understood it. We cannot say thank you enough


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## EVHB (Feb 11, 2008)

Your income is high enough to sponsor your UK husband-to-be?


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## yunnipie (May 12, 2014)

Yeah, it is high enough and I have been with my work for 9 years so I would imagine that stability would fair well.


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## EVHB (Feb 11, 2008)

That's good news.

But just to give you my 2 cents: I would not get married right now. I would wait until I could prove that the relationship is at least 12-18 months old, and you met at least twice.
Why? Suppose that the officials see don't see your marriage as a true one out of love (he will have to state that he has a daughter in the US. Does he want residency in the US to be close to his daughter?), are you ready to accept the consequence? He would never be able to travel to the US anymore without requesting a tourist visa (where one of the questions is if you ever were refused entry to the US -> yes -> fake marriage? -> no visa). I don't know if he ever visits his daughter? That would not be possible anymore for the coming years. And if the 2 of you want to be together, you would have to leave the US.
I think it is less suspicious if you have a more 'stable' relationship (= know each other for a longer time, visited each other more than once). (just me playing the devil's advocate!)


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## yunnipie (May 12, 2014)

That would be tragic! Thank you for that, definitely something to consider. He does visit his daughter and does pay child support without a court order. So no worry on the back child support thing. Thank you for the information on that!


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