# PR questions



## Lezz (Nov 5, 2013)

I have been living in Japan for over 6 years and have a child with my Japanese wife. We are planning to move permanently to Australia to live from Feb or March next year. I'm on the spouse visa, and it would seem like I could probably apply for and attain PR, but, is it worth it?

I love the town we are living in, and as funds allow, we plan to come back each year on my work holidays and stay with my wife's parents' house so that our son, and any other children we have down the track, can experience Japanese culture and the learn language. We would only be here up to 1 month a year.

My father in-law paid for me to get a special heavy vehicle licence which allows me to drive a tractor on public roads. As I intend to help my father in law when we come back, and also because it cost him quite a bit of money, I'd prefer not to lose my driver's licence. I also don't want to have to carry my passport around if I have to be here on a tourist visa. While we are back on holiday, I don't intend to do any paid work. I can see that it might be beneficial to have the national health insurance as a safety net, but besides these points, I am struggling to justify applying for PR.

Pension rules have changed meaning 10 years of payments are required to qualify, but that still leaves nearly 4 years' worth of payments. 

As for the benefits of not applying for PR and cancelling my spouse visa, from what I understand, I can get 3 years' worth of pension payments back.

I feel like because it would appear that I can get PR, that I should, but it seems like it might not be worth the effort to get and keep (besides being an abuse of the actual visa) by not actually living here anymore.

Sorry for the length of the post, but if anyone has any advice either way, I'm all ears. Cheers!


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## larabell (Sep 10, 2007)

Lezz said:


> I'm on the spouse visa, and it would seem like I could probably apply for and attain PR, but, is it worth it?


If I were in your situation, I'd probably go for it but it's hard to find a clear reason either way. One thing you might consider is whether "permanently" really means forever. What if one or both of you have a hard time making the adjustment and you decide you'd really rather be in Japan? That's not unusual -- I have a friend who retired from the US Navy, returned with his Japanese wife to his native Oklahoma, and within a few years was back working in Yokosuka again.

However... if you're only coming over for 1 month a year, the visa isn't really necessary. Assuming you're travelling on an Australian passport, you can come over for 90 days at a time without pre-applying for a visa. Moreover, if you decide to return to Japan long-term and you're still married, a spousal visa should be pretty simple to get. So there's no real benefit to PR status.

I'm not sure what happens to driver's licenses if you leave the country. That would be worth checking with the authorities. Also, you might check whether it would be possible to re-instate the license when you come back -- I had another friend who let his license lapse and they re-instated it just by filling out a form and paying the renewal fee. I know because we both went down on the same day to apply and the clerk noticed his previous (expired) license in the system and suggested that he should just renew the old one instead. Of course, the paperwork would be a hassle and might take some time.



> While we are back on holiday, I don't intend to do any paid work...


That's good... since working while on a tourist visa could get you banned from re-entering the country.



> I can see that it might be beneficial to have the national health insurance as a safety net


But unless you're working for a company here, you'd have to pay for the insurance and it probably wouldn't do you any good for the other 11 months. Wouldn't you have health insurance in Australia and wouldn't that cover you while on holiday?



> Pension rules have changed meaning 10 years of payments are required to qualify, but that still leaves nearly 4 years' worth of payments.


Check with the ward office. Japan has treaties with some countries where credit for years worked can be transferred between countries. In other words, if you worked at least four years in Australia and then returned here to retire, you may very well qualify.



> As for the benefits of not applying for PR and cancelling my spouse visa, from what I understand, I can get 3 years' worth of pension payments back.


You can get some percentage back. But I would imagine that comes at the price of no longer being "in the system" from Japan's point-of-view. That wouldn't matter if you really don't come back, of course.

As for "cancelling" your spousal visa, leaving the country doesn't cancel your visa. I had a "Business Manager" visa the first time I was here and then I left. A year or so later, I came back for a visit and the Immigration officer asked if I wouldn't prefer to enter on my existing visa (which I had entirely forgotten about). I also don't know for sure whether you have to be living here to renew a spousal visa. It might be possible just to renew the spousal visa each time it expires and if your absences aren't any longer than a year, just keep "re-entering" each time. You couldn't do that with a regular working visa because, presumably, you have to still be working in Japan to qualify. But a spousal visa only requires that you be married to a Japanese national -- which I'm assuming would still be the case even though you're not physically living in Japan. Again, that's something you might want to ask the Immigration folks about since you're not likely to find that kind of detailed information on any of the official web sites.


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## Lezz (Nov 5, 2013)

Thanks for the reply.



larabell said:


> One thing you might consider is whether "permanently" really means forever. What if one or both of you have a hard time making the adjustment and you decide you'd really rather be in Japan? That's not unusual -- I have a friend who retired from the US Navy, returned with his Japanese wife to his native Oklahoma, and within a few years was back working in Yokosuka again.


Good point. I suppose anything is possible.



larabell said:


> I'm not sure what happens to driver's licenses if you leave the country. That would be worth checking with the authorities. Also, you might check whether it would be possible to re-instate the license when you come back -- I had another friend who let his license lapse and they re-instated it just by filling out a form and paying the renewal fee.


I had heard that Japanese people living overseas need to show proof of having been overseas when their licence expires to be able to renew, but that slightly contradicts what your friend was able to do. Either way, I'm pretty sure they will require you to have an address which you won't have on a tourist visa.



larabell said:


> But unless you're working for a company here, you'd have to pay for the insurance and it probably wouldn't do you any good for the other 11 months. Wouldn't you have health insurance in Australia and wouldn't that cover you while on holiday?


If I had to continue paying pension, health insurance, etc., while not living in Japan then I definitely wouldn't do it. If my understanding is correct, each time before leaving it should be possible to do a "tenshutsu" declaration at your local town/city office, and since you wouldn't be "tennyuu"-ing anywhere else in Japan, that should make you exempt from taxes while away. Australia does have reciprocal health insurance agreements with countries like the UK/Ireland, but not Japan, unfortunately.



larabell said:


> Check with the ward office. Japan has treaties with some countries where credit for years worked can be transferred between countries. In other words, if you worked at least four years in Australia and then returned here to retire, you may very well qualify.


This is a good point. It turns out there is an agreement in place which allows the transfer of years worked/residence that I'll have to look into in more detail. The pension money is definitely a consideration, but besides maintaining a driver's licence, it seems at the moment like there are no real benefits to attaining PR (except the **** factor ) especially since if we come back I can easily get a spousal visa.


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## larabell (Sep 10, 2007)

Lezz said:


> Either way, I'm pretty sure they will require you to have an address which you won't have on a tourist visa.


Well... you mentioned a father in-law... I assume he has an address. If you did decide to go for PR and, presumably, "re-enter" Japan each time you visit, you'd need an address anyway for your Residence Card.



> If my understanding is correct, each time before leaving it should be possible to do a "tenshutsu" declaration at your local town/city office...


I'm not sure about that. I believe that's part of the new regulations where the Immigration Bureau keeps the residence records. If you don't want Immigration to figure out you're no longer in the country, you'll have to register a residence somewhere (presumably your wife's parent's place) and that will also trigger the insurance payments. It's quite possible that the new regulations make is harder (maybe impossible) to keep a status of residence without actually living here.



> ... but besides maintaining a driver's licence, it seems at the moment like there are no real benefits to attaining PR (except the **** factor )...


Well... as a fellow ****, that's a significant factor. It would be even more so if you had already invested ten years here and didn't want to reset the clock. But I also agree that there doesn't seem that much practical value versus the hassle.

BTW, I assume your driver's license is for something other than just for regular cars. Otherwise, you could just get an IDP every time you come over (they're usually good for a year). I don't know if the IDP covers commercial licenses, though.


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## Lezz (Nov 5, 2013)

I thought I might add a few things here as reference for anyone in a similar situation looking for info.



larabell said:


> I'm not sure about that. I believe that's part of the new regulations where the Immigration Bureau keeps the residence records. If you don't want Immigration to figure out you're no longer in the country, you'll have to register a residence somewhere (presumably your wife's parent's place) and that will also trigger the insurance payments. It's quite possible that the new regulations make is harder (maybe impossible) to keep a status of residence without actually living here.


You are now allowed to leave the country for a whole year without a re-entry permit, and longer if you have one. I am sure they also understand that we have left family overseas, so in some circumstances moderate absences from the country may be unavoidable (and excusable).

As for the pension arrangements and transfer of credits, it is possible between Australia and Japan, but I know for sure that Australia has a system where you are tested on income from foreign pensions. If you have too big an income from other sources you cannot obtain the local pension, so it really defeats the purpose of trying to obtain two old age pensions.

To get your three year refund in Japan you need to cancel you visa and leave the country. From what I've been told, to cancel a current visa you need to hand in your residence card at the airport.

以上


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