# Economic growth in Spain



## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

According to this extract from a report by the OECD everything's hunky dory, or will be 
Spain - Economic forecast summary (June 2015) - OECD


> Private consumption growth will be supported by rising employment and incomes, household tax cuts, and lower fuel prices and interest rates. Export growth will be underpinned by cost competitiveness gains, including from the depreciation of the euro, and stronger growth in Europe. Persistent slack will keep inflation low.


El País in English points out that even the OECD admits that not all is rosy though
Spanish economy: Spain will top economic growth and job creation this year, say world bodies | In English | EL PAÃ�S


> In any case, the OECD underscores that Spain’s unemployment figure is still “one of the highest” among member states. ...
> 
> This body also criticizes the high number of temporary jobs in Spain, where 24% of workers are on this type of contract, a figure only exceeded by Poland in the OECD community.


The NY Times picks up this theme 
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/11/w...covery-feels-like-a-bust.html?ref=topics&_r=0


> But for many Spaniards, like Mr. Puyalón, the statistics are meaningless — even suspect.
> Experts say that is not surprising because the vast majority of the new jobs are part-time — some lasting only a few days — and they pay poorly, doing little to improve the lives of the millions of Spaniards who lost their jobs during the global economic crisis.


And some "pictures" for those of us who get lost in economic verbosity
The euro zone’s pathetic economic recovery, in eight pitiful charts - Quartz


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## olivefarmer (Oct 16, 2012)

Interesting.

We have noticed a lot more traffic (vans, lorries and cars on the roads and motorways). Back to 2007 levels. That indicates to me that the economy is improving.

Malaga airport was the busiest I have ever seen it on Thursday.

However there is still a lot of unemployment especially with the young in the countryside.

I have a sneaky feeling that the current situation is a blip and recovery will slow down.


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## 90199 (Mar 21, 2010)

A hotelier told me only the other night, that on this island he had no future, the travel costs for non residents was so extortionate that the foreign tourists no longer arrive.

The ones that do arrive drive their cars on to the ferry loaded with all supplies, stay in the vacant properties of relatives that have had to leave to find work, the only things that they purchase are bread and newspapers and maybe petrol 
for the return journey


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

We've been out to dinner in Estepona the last three Saturdays and I was there on Wednesday evening. The place is heaving with tourists, mainly Spanish and French, from what I could see. Loads of French...Bars, cafes, restaurants all doing a roaring trade.
There must be a big increase in local employment, for the season anyway.
I don't know about pay.
As the climate is good all year-round the tourist trade may continue beyond the end of this month/September, who knows..
Not so many Brits, maybe they tend to stay nearer Malaga, places like Torremolinos or Fuengirola.


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

mrypg9 said:


> We've been out to dinner in Estepona the last three Saturdays and I was there on Wednesday evening. The place is heaving with tourists, mainly Spanish and French, from what I could see. Loads of French...Bars, cafes, restaurants all doing a roaring trade.
> There must be a big increase in local employment, for the season anyway.
> I don't know about pay.
> As the climate is good all year-round the tourist trade may continue beyond the end of this month/September, who knows..
> Not so many Brits, maybe they tend to stay nearer Malaga, places like Torremolinos or Fuengirola.


It is the same in Torre del Mar, we were there for dinner again on Friday night and I don't think I ever saw it so busy even before the recession. The majority of the holidaymakers who go there are Spanish (many own apartments there as second homes) so not only is it good for the local economy, but it must be a sign that the Spanish economy in general is improving as more Spanish people are going away on holiday again now, and going out to the restaurants and bars rather than self catering in their apartments, which local busineses have bemoaned for the past few years. The peak season here has always been July/August and Easter, I can't see it remaining so busy into September because the pattern of Spanish holiday is always concentrated into those months.

PS where did that thumbs down emoticon come from in the heading of my post???? I must have hit something by mistake and now I can't get rid of it, I didn't mean I don't approve of the improving economy, honest!


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## Isobella (Oct 16, 2014)

There is no doubt that the economy has improved. I am a bit sceptical if it is as good as claimed seeing as it is an election year Lots of feel good stories in the Spanish media but reading many of the comments from Spaniards they are wary too. Time will tell. Tourism whilst an important part of Spain's economy is not the B and end all. Málaga airport may well be busy but the second runway completed some years ago is still not being used. Claimed that air traffic is up around 4.6% in July compared with last year but all European airports are reporting increases too.

One of my Spanish friends. a nurse has posted on facebook that she is going to work in Sweden after a worsening of their contracts. €3000 to 4000 pm plus accommodation and free language training. Although I suppose it is expensive there.

Time will tell, after the election. BTW even Greece claims their economy has grown, don't know how that has happened with the various strikes, banks being closed etc.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Isobella said:


> There is no doubt that the economy has improved. I am a bit sceptical if it is as good as claimed seeing as it is an election year Lots of feel good stories in the Spanish media but reading many of the comments from Spaniards they are wary too. Time will tell. Tourism whilst an important part of Spain's economy is not the B and end all. Málaga airport may well be busy but the second runway completed some years ago is still not being used. Claimed that air traffic is up around 4.6% in July compared with last year but all European airports are reporting increases too.
> 
> One of my Spanish friends. a nurse has posted on facebook that she is going to work in Sweden after a worsening of their contracts. €3000 to 4000 pm plus accommodation and free language training. Although I suppose it is expensive there.
> 
> Time will tell, after the election. BTW even Greece claims their economy has grown, don't know how that has happened with the various strikes, banks being closed etc.


Yes, I agree, especially with the parts I've underlined.
I don't know how tourism is doing in my area as I haven't been to any touristy places here lately, but the last figures for Madrid were very, very good I seem to remember.
I think most people are aware of the importance that tourism has in Spanish economy, but it isn't the only indication of how well the country is doing. Salaries, inflation, investment, employment and perhaps more importantly in today's Spain, the conditions of employment also indicate how well the economy is doing. (For example, according to some employment is rising, but there are also many temp contracts and pay and conditions are often worse. See articles in post 1). That's why I find it interesting to read/ listen to views that don't echo the government's "España va bien" speech.

Just in case. This post is not intended to refute anything said by other posters, nor to cause offence.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Yes, I agree, especially with the parts I've underlined.
> I don't know how tourism is doing in my area as I haven't been to any touristy places here lately, but the last figures for Madrid were very, very good I seem to remember.
> I think most people are aware of the importance that tourism has in Spanish economy, but it isn't the only indication of how well the country is doing. Salaries, inflation, investment, employment and perhaps more importantly in today's Spain, the conditions of employment also indicate how well the economy is doing. (For example, according to some employment is rising, but there are also many temp contracts and pay and conditions are often worse. See articles in post 1). That's why I find it interesting to read/ listen to views that don't echo the government's "España va bien" speech.
> 
> Just in case. This post is not intended to refute anything said by other posters, nor to cause offence.


Problem is, tourism is very much the be all and end all here....But you are right, although a job is a job, some jobs are better than others.
I think temporary employment must play a major role in our local economy.
Incidentally, I don't see how anything you've written could possibly cause 'offence'...


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

mrypg9 said:


> Problem is, tourism is very much the be all and end all here....But you are right, although a job is a job, some jobs are better than others.
> I think temporary employment must play a major role in our local economy.
> Incidentally, I don't see how anything you've written could possibly cause 'offence'...


Yes, I see what you mean that tourism is practically it for some places, but if an article, or a minister or what/whoever is talking about the economy of Spain, even though the economy of Spain is largely based around tourism it's not the only important area to reference, don't you think?


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Here's an earlier article which talks about the weakness evident in the Spanish coporate world


> In a paper called _The Italian and Spanish corporate sectors in the aftermath of the crisis_, IMF technicians conclude that “the crisis has had a severe impact on the corporate sector in Italy and Spain.”
> “Evidence of weakening performance can be seen across a range of measures of profitability and liquidity,” explains the document. “The deterioration has occurred across the board, though the negative effects of the crisis are particularly pronounced for smaller businesses, and firms in select sectors, such as construction.”





> Meanwhile, “the profitability of Italian and Spanish firms fell dramatically over 2006–2013.” The drop was even bigger in Spain, where “for the median surviving company, return on assets (as measured by profits before tax in percent of total assets) fell from about 3% in 2006-07 to just about 0.5%” in 2013.


Spanish economy: IMF warns about the weakness of Spainâ€™s corporate sector | In English | EL PAÃ�S
This is what I hear about when at work.


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

Another indication that more Spanish people are now able to, and have the confidence to, start spending their money again. Sales of domestic electric appliiances (and not just air conditioning due to the hot summer) are up by 50% compared to last year in Málaga shops, due, it is claimed, to Spanish second home owners renewing old appliances.


La vuelta del turismo residencial dispara la venta de electrodomÃ©sticos en MÃ¡laga . SUR.es


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Poll in El Diario shows PP with 4 pointlead over PSOE, Podemos way down at under 12% .
As support for the governing Party usually firms up before an election, it looks like another PP victory.
Time for Podemos supporters to ask themselves if they really want to,put Rajoy back in power.


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## 90199 (Mar 21, 2010)

Blooming Heck!! Someone is coming to look at our apartment that is for sale, this afternoon :fingerscrossed:


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Meanwhile, turning back to the thread title
Sñr. Guindos, Minister of Economy


> A su juicio, aunque siempre hay incertidumbres, como las próximas elecciones generales, *los fundamentos de la economía española para los próximos "tres, cuatro o cinco años" son ya "completamente diferentes"*, si se compara con la situación que había en 2012. A este respecto, recalca que España ya ha recuperado toda la competitividad que había perdido desde que se incorporó al euro, que el sistema bancario está mucho más saneado, que el déficit público es menos de la mitad que en 2011 y que el sector inmobiliario ya se ha ajustado.


Guindos asegura que hasta dentro de "dos o tres años" España no habrá salido "completamente" de la crisis | Diario Público


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## thrax (Nov 13, 2008)

I have never seen Nerja and Torrox Costa so busy. Some restaurant owners we know say this is their busiest season for years. We also see a lot of building work starting up - not new starts, but finishing off shells that have been in that state since 2008. Local press say that tourist numbers for the area is up by 17% on last year which also saw an increase.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

You can't separate the elections from the economy. Tourism is undoubtedly much higher this year than last and although this has very little if anything to do with the Government - more to do with collapse of tourism in Greece and Tunisia and the strong £ - Rajoy will take credit for the economic upturn.

So...does austerity work, then? The Troika plan for Greece was showing some of the famous green shoots before the Syriza crew wrecked things.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

thrax said:


> I have never seen Nerja and Torrox Costa so busy. Some restaurant owners we know say this is their busiest season for years. We also see a lot of building work starting up - not new starts, but finishing off shells that have been in that state since 2008. Local press say that tourist numbers for the area is up by 17% on last year which also saw an increase.


Trouble is, you can't build a stable economy on tourism. It's seasonal, low waged and mainly low skilled and people are fickle...
Spain will always be a favourite destination for many but as Greece recovers - the bank closures and credit controls hit this summer's trade - and the £ falls as it may well over the next twelve months people might consider other destinations. Bulgaria is cheap, ditto Croatia and both have great beaches and interesting cities.
One major terrorist incident in Spain will impact on tourism as it has done in Tunisia.
The £ today is at 1.36 euros...


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## 90199 (Mar 21, 2010)

mrypg9 said:


> Trouble is, you can't build a stable economy on tourism. It's seasonal, .



Seasonal only in the Iberian part of Spain, the climate in the Canary Islands allows year round tourism and the southern resorts on the larger islands flourish, particularly in the European winter months.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Hepa said:


> Seasonal only in the Iberian part of Spain, the climate in the Canary Islands allows year round tourism and the southern resorts on the larger islands flourish, particularly in the European winter months.


Not seasonal in Madrid, Barcelona, Bilbao either...but the Costas are the tourism money-spinners at present and tourism there is very seasonal..


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## Maureen47 (Mar 27, 2014)

Maybe because a lot of holidays in Tunisia were cancelled , that made Spain a bit busier, I know friends who had booked for Tunisia were all offered Spain after the horrendous event earlier in the holiday season. Might have bumped the numbers up in Spain , all the things I have read lately though are erring on the positive in terms of things improving. There are new shops opening in our little village.


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## Justina (Jan 25, 2013)

*Economy*



maureen47 said:


> Maybe because a lot of holidays in Tunisia were cancelled , that made Spain a bit busier, I know friends who had booked for Tunisia were all offered Spain after the horrendous event earlier in the holiday season. Might have bumped the numbers up in Spain , all the things I have read lately though are erring on the positive in terms of things improving. There are new shops opening in our little village.


Shops opening could also be attributed to owners lowering the rents.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Justina said:


> Shops opening could also be attributed to owners lowering the rents.


Indeed...we've seen a couple of shops open in our village...and close in a very short time.
I get the impression it's not Spaniards who are spending money....not big money, although bars and restaurants are crowded. 
But then Spaniards are sensible people who value holidays and are willing to splash out on a good week or fortnight by the sea with the family.


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## thrax (Nov 13, 2008)

Tourism here is, of course, seasonal but the season does run from end March through to December. Very quiet in January February and early March which is when we go out... The increase in tourist numbers was predicted back in February long before the Tunisia atrocity and the real figures appear to support the prediction. But we know many poor people here, Spanish, Moroccans, Italians and British to name a few of the nationalities. With the exception of the Brits, they are all still smiling. We see in our local village (Torrox Pueblo) many examples of people helping others who are struggling. Supermarkets regularly give out food to food charities, we have people handing out plastic bags to buy things for the poor. A group of us regularly help out those who are struggling and have kids, not just food but clothing and furniture, whenever we can. I don't think I ever saw this level of kindness in UK although there was definitely some, just not on this scale. It would be interesting to see if others on here have similar experiences in their local communities.


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## Isobella (Oct 16, 2014)

thrax said:


> A group of us regularly help out those who are struggling and have kids, not just food but clothing and furniture, whenever we can. I don't think I ever saw this level of kindness in UK although there was definitely some, just not on this scale. It would be interesting to see if others on here have similar experiences in their local communities.


Why do you feel the need to slag off the UK in many posts? Do you realise that charity giving in the UK is the most generous in the world...have a read before making sweeping statements.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

thrax said:


> Tourism here is, of course, seasonal but the season does run from end March through to December. Very quiet in January February and early March which is when we go out... The increase in tourist numbers was predicted back in February long before the Tunisia atrocity and the real figures appear to support the prediction. But we know many poor people here, Spanish, Moroccans, Italians and British to name a few of the nationalities. With the exception of the Brits, they are all still smiling. We see in our local village (Torrox Pueblo) many examples of people helping others who are struggling. Supermarkets regularly give out food to food charities, we have people handing out plastic bags to buy things for the poor. A group of us regularly help out those who are struggling and have kids, not just food but clothing and furniture, whenever we can. I don't think I ever saw this level of kindness in UK although there was definitely some, just not on this scale. It would be interesting to see if others on here have similar experiences in their local communities.


Sorry, thrax...I agree 100&% with Isobella. I lived in a smallish country town in the UK and there were so many charitable and self-help groups and that was ten years ago...there are more now, it seems. There is even a big old house in the town centre which is used as a meeting place for voluntary groups of all kinds. Our charity of choice was Caritas and anything we had, furniture, carpets etc. went there, clothes mainly to Dr Barnado's. The church also had a standing food collection in the porch and people were very generous in giving. 
People are indeed generous here in Spain and yes, in our small village it's the church again that is the main helper, collector and organiser of collections. People help each other too.
In Estepona, the two main charities, Cudeca and Age Concern, are run by a mixture of Brits, Spaniards and other nationalities. 
I think there can be an understandable tendency to see all things Spanish as vastly superior to all things British - not that you display it - and to see life in Spain as infinitely better in every way to that in the UK....after all, we chose to live here! Well, it ain't the case! I landed in Malaga Spain seven years ago not Malaga Paradise. I love my life in Spain but I had a good happy life in the UK so I can't complain about it. 
One thing I find very much about living outside the UK is the feeling of comparative helplessness in dealings with officialdom, the police...At least in the UK you can exercise your rights, there are mechanisms. Even for a trivial traffic offence you can, if you wish, have your day in court. No on-the-spot fines.
After all , there are typical English expressions: 'I know my rights!'
'You can't tell me what to do!'
Our civil liberties are being eroded in the UK, true, but we are still better protected there than here in Spain.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

I believe seventeen women have been victims of lethal domestic violence in Spain over the summer months. Last week the burnt body of a woman was found dumped in a rubbish container in Huelva.
Not much charity there.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Hepa said:


> Seasonal only in the Iberian part of Spain, the climate in the Canary Islands allows year round tourism and the southern resorts on the larger islands flourish, particularly in the European winter months.


And you shouldn't base a country's economy on the tourism of a few islands thousands of miles away from the mainland, at least I don't think you should but governments in Spain see to make a past time of it...


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Isobella said:


> Why do you feel the need to slag off the UK in many posts? Do you realise that charity giving in the UK is the most generous in the world...have a read before making sweeping statements.


Let's not get into a p*ssing contest. Of course people in the UK support charities generously. There are lots of volunteers in charity shops and at food banks and people who look out for their elderly neighbours etc. 

But I think what Thrax means is that it's more _visible_ here - rather than give money to a charity at the click of a credit card, which is relatively painless if you can afford it, people here get involved more directly. They are usually cash-poor and time-rich so you are more likely to see people collecting food and clothing donations from door to door, or sorting out rotas to cook and care for neighbours in hospital, etc. It's a case of necessity; the community has always to care for its members because until recently there was no welfare state or other third parties to fall back on, except the Church, and you never knew when you might need help yourself. That's how I see it anyway.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Alcalaina said:


> Let's not get into a p*ssing contest. Of course people in the UK support charities generously. There are lots of volunteers in charity shops and at food banks and people who look out for their elderly neighbours etc.
> 
> But I think what Thrax means is that it's more _visible_ here - rather than give money to a charity at the click of a credit card, which is relatively painless if you can afford it, people here get involved more directly. They are usually cash-poor and time-rich so you are more likely to see people collecting food and clothing donations from door to door, or sorting out rotas to cook and care for neighbours in hospital, etc. It's a case of necessity; the community has always to care for its members because until recently there was no welfare state or other third parties to fall back on, except the Church, and you never knew when you might need help yourself. That's how I see it anyway.


No, disagree. It's also visible in the UK. Retired people in the UK give a lot of time to charities. We used to help at our local Unemployed Workers Centre and many people there used their enforced free time working for charities.
We may be richer as a society but we are also very generous with time and money. Nearly every weekend there will be some event or other organised in aid of some charity, local or national. School students are usually very involved as well. My young delinquents did a lot of fundraising by organising fairs with fun activities, refreshments and stalls selling second hand goods. They debate which local charities they wished to donate their earnings too.


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## Isobella (Oct 16, 2014)

Alcalaina said:


> Let's not get into a p*ssing contest. Of course people in the UK support charities generously. There are lots of volunteers in charity shops and at food banks and people who look out for their elderly neighbours etc.
> 
> But I think what Thrax means is that it's more _visible_ here - rather than give money to a charity at the click of a credit card, which is relatively painless if you can afford it, people here get involved more directly. They are usually cash-poor and time-rich so you are more likely to see people collecting food and clothing donations from door to door, or sorting out rotas to cook and care for neighbours in hospital, etc. It's a case of necessity; the community has always to care for its members because until recently there was no welfare state or other third parties to fall back on, except the Church, and you never knew when you might need help yourself. That's how I see it anyway.


I hate peeing contests, just setting the record straight. Some cannot seem to bear it if everything in Spain isn't absolutely wonderful and better than the rest of Europe


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## thrax (Nov 13, 2008)

I think I was misunderstood. I certainly wasn't slagging off the UK just the tiny bit I lived in. I was aware that some supermarkets, I won't name them, threw away vast amounts of perfectly good food rather than give it to the homeless; this was their stated aim, they chose not to give it away. Since I left I am certainly aware that things are a lot better in that department although the supermarket I won't name continues to defy requests from charitable organisations to change their attitude. It is definitely more visible where we are in Spain compared to where I lived in UK. But that is simply a matter of observable charity. I know where other friends live in Spain and in UK things are quite different in that some friends in and around Madrid and Barcelona bemoan the lack of charity whereas in the midlands and Liverpool friends tell me that huge amounts of effort goes into helping others. Perhaps I worded my previous post a little poorly. Perhaps this one corrects it a bit.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

thrax said:


> I think I was misunderstood. I certainly wasn't slagging off the UK just the tiny bit I lived in. I was aware that some supermarkets, I won't name them, threw away vast amounts of perfectly good food rather than give it to the homeless; this was their stated aim, they chose not to give it away. Since I left I am certainly aware that things are a lot better in that department although the supermarket I won't name continues to defy requests from charitable organisations to change their attitude. It is definitely more visible where we are in Spain compared to where I lived in UK. But that is simply a matter of observable charity. I know where other friends live in Spain and in UK things are quite different in that some friends in and around Madrid and Barcelona bemoan the lack of charity whereas in the midlands and Liverpool friends tell me that huge amounts of effort goes into helping others. Perhaps I worded my previous post a little poorly. Perhaps this one corrects it a bit.


 Indeed
People are people, basically, wherever. We tend to have the same instincts. All over the world, irrespective of nationality, religion and culture, the vast majority of humans care for their families, friends, neighbours and community.
The problem with the UK is perhaps that for many reasons, family breakdown, moving for work, immigration, whatever, communities are changing fast and rapidly losing cohesion.
It's less easy to love your neighbour if your neighbour doesn't speak your language. It takes time to make ties.
So it may seem on the surface that in some places there is less 'community' than there used to be or should be.
It is no doubt happening in many places in Spain too.


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