# A BKK retirement budget question



## Wishingtostart (Jul 4, 2014)

I finally made it to Bangkok and Chiang Mai and the trip has allowed me to get an idea of what a retired life might look like over here. I think I’ve been able to begin to understand how my retirement budget might work. 

I am hoping to get some opinions from expats living now in BKK. 

From what I see, I think I can survive comfortably in BKK on about $1,975 US per month (64,000 Baht). I checked out the cost of living tool at Numbeo, but wanted to hear if anyone had some thoughts on this. My 64,000 Baht monthly budget is comprised of renting a centrally located large studio or one bedroom (25,000 Baht); public transportation (1,800 Baht); food (700 Baht/day; 21,000 Baht month), Health insurance (10,000 Baht estimate); utilities (2,408); internet (648 Baht); misc (3,000 Baht).

I am planning to rent ideally close to a central skytrain location. I am 50 years old. I have $345,000US saved that would need to last me from now until age 59 when I begin receiving a somewhat generous retirement. So with these expense estimates of $1975 per month, my savings will last me well beyond age 59 (when my retirement starts).

Those that are here, please tell me what I am missing, haven’t thought of, etc. Do you think my rough budget is realistic? Much thanks!


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## joseph44 (May 4, 2011)

Going out
Clothes
Shopping 
Cleaning-stuff
Domestic traveling
Leisure/sports

You're planning looks good, but not complete.
Whatever you plan, financial-wise, it won't work.

BTW........$ 345,000/$1975 = 175 months = 14 years and 6 months

But ok.........keeoing something in reserve sounds good and safe. 

Anyway, your available budget looks sufficient ($ 1975).


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## Wishingtostart (Jul 4, 2014)

Thank you Joseph, "whatever the plan, it won't work". Terrific statement, and how true that is with most things. I appreciate your pointing out the other things like domestic travel, leisure/sports, etc. I was hoping to consider that within my 3,000 Baht misc consideration, but now that I think about it, 3,000 Baht is only about $90 US. So, I need to add some other categories to this budget similar to those you noted. Much thanks. I'm glad to hear that it appears workable.


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## joseph44 (May 4, 2011)

Also don't forget that you have to put up THB 800,000 which will be "locked" in a Thai bank-account for visa-purposes.

Don't worry about your budget.....I know expats who are living here on a monthly budget of merely THB 25,000 - THB 30,000 and they survive.


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## Wishingtostart (Jul 4, 2014)

Joseph, Thanks again. I didn't realize the TBH 800,000 was locked up. But I should be able to just keep it in the Thai bank without touching it. After all, perhaps it will earn minimal interest. Yes, I see postings that expats are able to make it on much less than I'm planning for. I know myself pretty well and will not want to do without too, too much that's why I am trying to plan for higher expenses and then if I have money left over, it will be great. Thanks again for your thoughts and comments.
- Rich


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## dhream (Jan 30, 2012)

The THB 800,000 p/a is not 'locked up' at all! 

The THB 800,000 p/a or THB 400,000 p/a with THB 65,000 incoming p/m, and supported with embassy declaration, is for you to actually live on, in other words, it is YOUR BUDGET. This is what the Thai Govt. estimate a farang can be comfortable on. You need the THB 800,000 (if this is the route you take) to be topped up and not fall below THB 800,000 for one month before your Non-o extension of stay is granted, in the first year of application, and then ONLY in the three months before in the years thereafter. 
Rest of the year this is your wad... the less of it you use the less of it you need to top up three months before your annual stamp.
See 'the basement lounge' thread on 'retirement visa' for the entire and accurate process...

I live VERY well in CNX on THB 25,000 a month, but if you want to live like a westerner, paying western prices every night in the silver service joints, never eating street food, and living in the heart of BKK in the super duper condo with hot and cold running maids, then, you will burn through your wad in no time. In which case, just stay home!

You can go nuts anywhere in Thailand. 
This is the perfect place to school yourself, on how to find happiness with less '****' in your life, go minimal, it is liberating! 
You'll be happier and find richer meaning in life. You don't need to live like a bum, you just need to consider if you need BOTH a big TV and foreign TV package subscription, OR can you get by with your laptop and youtube, do you need to pay hidden jack-up costs for a condo with a pool which you may hardly ever actually use (then pay again to actually use it) or will a cool shower do the same job, stuff like that...
I had the big leather seat Lexus, it was nice, but I'm happier now with a scooter THB 40,000 new. Seriously.


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## dhream (Jan 30, 2012)

Everybody comes here and gets rolled at first, I did too! Mainly by real estate agents (whose commission is based on a percentage the rent they get for each mug they sign up).

But don't be paranoid. Find a nice guest house online, or try Air BnB (although IMHO they are now asking stupid prices too, killing the golden goose with greed)

Then hit the expat meet-ups, and learn how the prices for rentals really work. Few budget conscious expats in Chiang Mai pay more than THB 8000 p/m for good functional accommodation, unless they are seriously loaded. But even then, what's the point? 

I have just recently discovered I am being soaked for THB 12000 p/m. I do live in a two bedroom house with gardeners, and absolutely every convenience, including cable TV and aircon, but since most of this stuff is surplus to my requirements for happiness, that is about to change!

The only things 'western' I'm keeping, in my new place, is the aircon and internet!

There is nowhere worse on the planet where keeping up with the (Thai) Jones's, is more rampant. I came here to put that behind me, but out of habit, I found myself falling back in. Eight months in I am unhappy, and a quick inventory revealed this is why! It is folly. Pure folly.


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## Wishingtostart (Jul 4, 2014)

Dhream, 

Thanks for explaining how the THB 800,000 account relates to an expats application for non-o extension. I like your advice on doing more on less. Definitely my best times in life were not the times I had the most money. In fact those generally were the times I was working my a-- off and had no time to enjoy anything. I'm not a big partier or diner, so I won't be blowing my funds there. I prefer the street food to anything here. It's clear there are limitless variety of great street food meals THB 60-70. I plan to use public transportation, and saw on Novio that a monthly pass in BKK costs about THB 1,000. I plan to buy a scooter, definitely not an automobile. I'm pretty sure that rent in BKK will consume most of my budget. According to Numbeo, a one b/r in the city center will cost THB 20,700 per month, but I'm estimating a little higher on this. Thanks for the other guidance, yes, no need for a pool or any other extras I'll never use. Laptop and WIFI suffices for any TV as well. Much thanks again for helping me think about these things. 
- Rich


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## dhream (Jan 30, 2012)

Wts,

Thanks for your response. You sound like you have, like most of us, reached for happiness through 'more' and found that it was much 'less' than we dreamed.

I love BKK, but my reasoning goes like this, I can get close to the same lifestyle in Chiang Mai for 50% less (no exaggeration) that means I can afford to fly down there and enjoy it as a blow out lobster buffet dinner on the terrace of the Mandarin Oriental, or visit a top Jazz club, or catch a world headline concert, or whatever (airfares here are insanely cheap) all I need to do now is find some other expat who will share a room at their BKK place for reciprocal arrangements up here. If I really want to go all out, I can still find better hotel bargains in BKK than tourists can. I spent (spend being the operative word) a month last Xmas in BKK, it was brilliant, but that was when I was still based in the EU, and also when I decided that I'd enjoy BKK more, and be better off, if I didn't actually live there, but elsewhere in Thailand.

There are even cheaper and closer places to stay (Korat for example is a few hours away by train) but CNX winters rock, and CNX is big enough to keep me amused. Korat could be a little too quiet for me, and yes, I have been there on a recce mission.

I just have to add this, last night and tonight, I saw my first ever 'kongming' sky lanterns go up into the heavens, no pictures or video can do justice to seeing that happen live, framed against the mountain ranges to the west of Chiang Mai, it fills me with wonder and amazement, this is part of what makes Thailand, for all her foibles, such a magical place to live...


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## Wishingtostart (Jul 4, 2014)

No way! I am not into keeping up with the Jones's. Too much stress! 
I didn't realize that Meetup was here, but I'll definitely be checking that out. Yes, it's good advice to take the rental contract slowly. That's probably where a newly arrived expat is most vulnerable of getting a bit fleeced. I'll need to not sign a rental contract until I really know what's going on with rental prices. Meetup is great in Miami, where I'm from. So, yes sounds like a good plan to also make some new friends and network while I use a guest house or Airbnb arrangement before signing a lease. Thanks for the great advice.


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## Oneman (Aug 23, 2009)

dhream said:


> Everybody comes here and gets rolled at first



Very wise advice.




dhream said:


> Air BnB ... IMHO they are now asking stupid prices too



Exactly.
Recently I browsed Air BnB listing in my neighborhood of Bangkok.
Junky little condo rooms, deep into sois that are difficult to get into and out of, but asking prices of a decent hotel in a good location.




dhream said:


> Few budget conscious expats in Chiang Mai pay more than THB 8000 p/m for good functional accommodation, unless they are seriously loaded.



In Chiang Mai I paid 22-34,000/month for nice, but not extravagant, 1-bedroom apartments with kitchen and balcony. (Two different places)
Why?
In order to *avoid* buildings and neighborhoods where the 8,000-per-month types live.
There is a lot of expat riff-raff everywhere in Thailand.
Paying more than they do is the only way I know to avoid them.

-- Oneman
Bangkok
.


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## Oneman (Aug 23, 2009)

Wishingtostart said:


> I prefer the street food ... It's clear there are limitless variety of great street food meals THB 60-70.



I live across the soi from a group of street food vendors.
Every time I walk past, I see what they are cooking, and how they are cooking it.

They have no running water.
The cooks urinate and defecate in the bushes behind their food stalls.
Remember, no running water.

If the cooks happen to drop any food, they don't bother to clean it up.
Rats come out from the bushes to eat anything they can find.

There is no refrigeration, only ice delivered in the morning, which may, or may not, be gone by supper time.
So if you order pork or chicken for supper, it may have been marinated for several hours, in warm water, under a hot tropical sun.

One of the vendors has two small dogs which keep her company.
They sit up on the tables, in the shade of the large umbrellas, until a customer comes to eat.

For raw ingredients -- pork and chicken and vegetables -- an old pickup truck rattles up twice per day with an assortment of the very cheapest market foods in plastic bags.
At first, I went to have a look, thinking it would be convenient for me to buy off the truck.
But really the very cheapest of everything.
That's what will be going into the meals you order.

So, when you're done eating, where to the dishes and utensils get washed?
Remember, no running water.
I've never seen any of these vendors wash a plate.
Ever.

To end on a positive and helpful note, almost everywhere in Thailand, you can easily find pharmacies with a wide selection of stomach remedies, de-worm pills, and anti-diarrhea medicines.
Low prices on those, too.

Bon appetite!

-- Oneman
Bangkok


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## Meritorious-MasoMenos (Apr 17, 2014)

Ha ha Oneman, I ate street food all the time in Bangkok and survived, though I've gotten sick on street food in Latin America fairly often ... however, I don't doubt you. Nevertheless, google "Bangkok street food" and you'll get dozens of hits raving about how delicious it is, so true, with no warnings.

Bangkok street food | CNN Travel

I think you should expand on your post to help travelers.


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