# WTF is going on



## MaidenScotland (Jun 6, 2009)

Filipino girl had a taxi ride which cost 7le she gave the driver 10 and he demanded 20 which she refused he then drove her to the police station where the police demanded $700 to let her go and not cause trouble.. I guess the girl is illegal. 
A friend took the money down the policeman got $600 and the taxi driver $100... 

I am sure they wont try this trick on us whiteys  nothing changes does it?


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## expatagogo (May 31, 2010)

Kidnapped and held for ransom by a taxi driver who was in cahoots with the police.

Welcome in Egypt!


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## canuck2010 (Jan 13, 2010)

Quite the shakedown.


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## Homeless (Jul 31, 2012)

Got any details of the police station, officers or the taxi?


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## MaidenScotland (Jun 6, 2009)

Homeless said:


> Got any details of the police station, officers or the taxi?




No... and yes I do believe it, it is believable as anything I read in the papers.


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## Homeless (Jul 31, 2012)

I didn't say it is not believable. Just looking for information to see if something can be done.


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## MaidenScotland (Jun 6, 2009)

Homeless said:


> I didn't say it is not believable. Just looking for information to see if something can be done.




What could be done? 

Even if the policeman had given his name he would deny it, how dare she an illegal alien accuse the policeman of theft.. he had her over a barrel


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## maadiboy (Jan 25, 2011)

How could she know that the police got 600$ and the taxi driver 100$? This story sounds very weird.


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## aykalam (Apr 12, 2010)

maadiboy said:


> How could she know that the police got 600$ and the taxi driver 100$? This story sounds very weird.


do you really think these guys hide their corruption? whoever paid the money probably saw them split it there and then, they don't give a flying F.


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## expatagogo (May 31, 2010)

aykalam said:


> do you really think these guys hide their corruption? whoever paid the money probably saw them split it there and then, they don't give a flying F.


I took pictures of money changing hands at a checkpoint a few years ago - and the officer knew it. 

Really, they just don't care.


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## MaidenScotland (Jun 6, 2009)

Years ago when there was a black market for changing money I went to the Khan with my next door neighbour to change sterling into LE... her sterling not mine, father so high up in the police there is a notice outside their door saying his name and rank, brother is also a policeman...she handed over a wad of 50 pound notes... 

corruption is not hidden here plus of course you can see him do it in front to the girls just to show how powerful he is and there is the what you going to do about it factor


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## maadiboy (Jan 25, 2011)

Interesting fact, havent seen it this way till now, and well i havent seen too much corruption till now, of course i know it exists everywhere.


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## MaidenScotland (Jun 6, 2009)

maadiboy said:


> Interesting fact, havent seen it this way till now, and well i havent seen too much corruption till now, of course i know it exists everywhere.




I paid for my report to be written when there was a prisoner in the room witnessing me handing over money.. I didn't get a receipt lol


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## hurghadapat (Mar 26, 2010)

MaidenScotland said:


> Years ago when there was a black market for changing money I went to the Khan with my next door neighbour to change sterling into LE... her sterling not mine, father so high up in the police there is a notice outside their door saying his name and rank, brother is also a policeman...she handed over a wad of 50 pound notes...
> 
> corruption is not hidden here plus of course you can see him do it in front to the girls just to show how powerful he is and there is the what you going to do about it factor


Got an invite to a christening of the daughter of a policeman and was told "you will bring some gold jewellery"


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## expatagogo (May 31, 2010)

maadiboy said:


> Interesting fact, havent seen it this way till now, and well i havent seen too much corruption till now, of course i know it exists everywhere.


You have already seen it, or even been party to it, and just didn't know.

Corruption isn't necessarily about money ("baksheesh"), it's also about influence ("wasta"). Seems everyone has a "friend" with a "very important position" who will "help." It doesn't matter that this friend with a very important position may just be a nice person helping solve their problems and nobody's palm gets greased - which I do believe happens - it will be perceived and conveyed as having connections.

I believe the need for status, to be better than someone else (whether it's real or perceived) is the largest part of the problem. 

I'm no social behavior expert, but my guess this is because Egypt hangs onto the "colonial mindset" and refuses to let it go. I once read that a symptom of it is people who are stuck on brand names and the status that comes with owning a brand name possession. The study was specific to Americans (and the US was colonized, yeah?), however the behavior holds true here, in Egypt, where a knock-off fake anythings are purchased and flaunted. This could also be why Egyptians continue to furnish their home with gaudy French provincial style furnishings (sorry, can't stand the stuff); if it's French, it represents upper class, even in very modest homes.

Keep your eyes and ears open. It will become obvious, even tiresome, after a while.


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## mamasue (Oct 7, 2008)

hurghadapat said:


> Got an invite to a christening of the daughter of a policeman and was told "you will bring some gold jewellery"



Blimey....I hope you declined the invitation!!!


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## hurghadapat (Mar 26, 2010)

mamasue said:


> Blimey....I hope you declined the invitation!!!


Lol...what do you think


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## Homeless (Jul 31, 2012)

expatagogo said:


> I believe the need for status, to be better than someone else (whether it's real or perceived) is the largest part of the problem.
> 
> I'm no social behavior expert, but my guess this is because Egypt hangs onto the "colonial mindset" and refuses to let it go. I once read that a symptom of it is people who are stuck on brand names and the status that comes with owning a brand name possession. The study was specific to Americans (and the US was colonized, yeah?), however the behavior holds true here, in Egypt, where a knock-off fake anythings are purchased and flaunted. This could also be why Egyptians continue to furnish their home with gaudy French provincial style furnishings (sorry, can't stand the stuff); if it's French, it represents upper class, even in very modest homes.


I don't get the relation between corruption and colonial mindset. Can you expound on it and I'm also interested in that study.

My view on the effect of decades of corruption on the society is that a slow gradual change in behavior resulted in a new value system. At first the wrongs were justified to deal with the harsh life then slowly rights and wrongs were blurred to a point that most people do not recognize the difference. 
I always believed that any human being knows the difference between good and bad regardless of his actions. He knows when he steals that he committed a crime. But the past year made me change this view and I am convinced that most Egyptians can't tell the difference between right and wrong. 
I first noticed the small things like driving, rudeness, cheating and got into many discussions to try to convince them that they should change their behavior if they hope for better life for themselves and their children but all I got was arguments. With time I realized that they do believe they are right. The believe driving at night with the lights off is right, honking horns constantly is right, throwing garbage on the street is right, over charging when there's an opportunity is right.
They were not trying to justify it but they actually have their own logic.
I witnessed people in two different incidents provide false statements to police to support a person whom they did not know at all. Within minutes one after another started repeating a lie that one started. I think they sympathized with the one who appeared to be more like them.
I don't believe there's any hope in improving the society as a whole and I'm always surprised when I meet an Egyptian who was brought up in Egypt and appears to be genuinely good person. I now doubt that the only reason I think he's good is because I don't know him well.


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## MaidenScotland (Jun 6, 2009)

Homeless said:


> I don't get the relation between corruption and colonial mindset. Can you expound on it and I'm also interested in that study.
> 
> My view on the effect of decades of corruption on the society is that a slow gradual change in behavior resulted in a new value system. At first the wrongs were justified to deal with the harsh life then slowly rights and wrongs were blurred to a point that most people do not recognize the difference.
> I always believed that any human being knows the difference between good and bad regardless of his actions. He knows when he steals that he committed a crime. But the past year made me change this view and I am convinced that most Egyptians can't tell the difference between right and wrong.
> ...




I am sure you know the story of my Filipino stealing from me.. 

Last night I was at the dentist with a poster of this forum and the dentist asked me how my maid was, I went on to relate the story.. he said to me and the other member will confirm.

She has an Egyptian boyfriend that is why she is stealing from you so she can give to him... not that he was condoning what she had done but to him it was just a fact of life here.


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## expatagogo (May 31, 2010)

Homeless said:


> I don't get the relation between corruption and colonial mindset. Can you expound on it and I'm also interested in that study.


That study is on paper somewhere in the US. If I had a link to a web source, I would gladly provide it, but I don't.

My point was that there is a deep need to be "better" than other people. Egypt has an unspoken, but quite real, caste system (for lack of a better term) and the general idea is that one has to be "better" than another.

Here's how it works:

Black = Bad
Poor = Bad
Farmer = Bad

Those qualities, or people who fall into those categories, are "bad" (and I'm using quote marks throughout because these are the words Egyptians have used when talking about this to/with me, not for emphasis) and they're always going to be "bad" within Egypt's social structure.

It doesn't matter that darker skin is typically found in Upper Egypt and that Egyptians throughout the country will proclaim the honesty and integrity of people from that region until the cows come home, those same Egyptians would not let their daughter marry a poor, dark skinned farmer from, say, Aswan. Why not? Well, because he's a poor, dark skinned farmer and she can - and will - find a "better" husband.

No way. Instead, the only real way for upward mobility is through marriage. So, parents will work very hard and skimp and scrape to pay fees and private teachers to get their child into Doctor or Engineering because those degrees, while almost universally worthless, hold higher social status. Once the struggle to get Junior through university, even if it's with a "pass" grade, it's time to marry him off. How is Junior going to get a job, particularly when he has no job skills and his degree is the mirror image of thousands of others? Either Daddy listens to him whine and pine because he doesn't have a job so he can't marry Docteura Engineera (someone actually introduced herself to me with that crapped-up title the other day), not mention Daddy wants a return on his investment (and the financial security that comes along with an employed son). So, Daddy either pays someone or calls someone or calls in a favor and, badaboom, Junior gets a j-o-b and, finally, gets married ... makes babies ... and the cycle continues.



Homeless said:


> My view on the effect of decades of corruption on the society is that a slow gradual change in behavior resulted in a new value system. At first the wrongs were justified to deal with the harsh life then slowly rights and wrongs were blurred to a point that most people do not recognize the difference.
> I always believed that any human being knows the difference between good and bad regardless of his actions. He knows when he steals that he committed a crime. But the past year made me change this view and I am convinced that most Egyptians can't tell the difference between right and wrong.


Of course they can tell the difference!

The only two religions allowed both put redemption on offer. I don't want to turn this into a religious discussion, but the reality is when, at some point, the sin is forgiven, why not sin?



Homeless said:


> I first noticed the small things like driving, rudeness, cheating and got into many discussions to try to convince them that they should change their behavior if they hope for better life for themselves and their children but all I got was arguments. With time I realized that they do believe they are right. The believe driving at night with the lights off is right, honking horns constantly is right, throwing garbage on the street is right, over charging when there's an opportunity is right.
> They were not trying to justify it but they actually have their own logic.


Uh, did you actually expect they would admit they are wrong? Seriously?



Homeless said:


> I witnessed people in two different incidents provide false statements to police to support a person whom they did not know at all. Within minutes one after another started repeating a lie that one started. I think they sympathized with the one who appeared to be more like them.


I will risk a spanking by a moderator and take you to school on this one.

If it comes out of the mouth of an Egyptian, it's true. If it comes out of the mouth of an Egyptian male, it's even more true. If it comes out of the mouth of a Muslim male Egyptian, it's the most true. If it comes out of the mouths of a group of Muslim male Egyptians, it's not only true, it's an indisputable fact. In this case, the victim of the group lie was simply outnumbered.



Homeless said:


> I don't believe there's any hope in improving the society as a whole and I'm always surprised when I meet an Egyptian who was brought up in Egypt and appears to be genuinely good person. I now doubt that the only reason I think he's good is because I don't know him well.


Ah! You're learning!


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## Qsw (Feb 1, 2012)

I was waiting for a train from Alexandria to Cairo once, and while waiting, there was an old man who was hunched over, walking around, needing help. An Egyptian male teenager helped him find a seat to wait, brought him some things to eat and drink, and in general made sure he was taken care of.

Focus on the bad, and that is all you will remember. If the majority of Egyptians were not good people, then the country would cease to function. Every society has its problems, Egypt is no different. It's just that the bad apples are more visible, and people tend to remember the bad.


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## Lanason (Sep 1, 2009)

Qsw said:


> I was waiting for a train from Alexandria to Cairo once, and while waiting, there was an old man who was hunched over, walking around, needing help. An Egyptian male teenager helped him find a seat to wait, brought him some things to eat and drink, and in general made sure he was taken care of.
> 
> Focus on the bad, and that is all you will remember. If there majority of Egyptians were not good people, then the country would cease to function. Every society has its problems, Egypt is no different. It's just that the bad apples are more visible, and people tend to remember the bad.


My wife stepped on a manhole cover that gave way and her leg fell into the hole. Lucky it was an inspection cover for some of pipework, but she was still badly bruised and shaken - an old man came over and helped "big time" - he still waves whenever we pass that way and the incident was over 1 year ago:clap2::clap2::clap2:


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## Eco-Mariner (Jan 26, 2011)

Much like the UK, Egypt is a mis-mash of immigrants dating back to the slave centuries of the Pharoahs. If they didn't escape they inter-married and throughout millenia Egypt never really found its own identity after the fall of the Roman Empire. 
The saying "once a cheat or thief always a cheat or thief" if the laws are not strong enough.

Over the last few centuries, western civilisations and populations created laws outside of religeous fervour to cope with the society's needs of that generation.
Egypt seems to want to go backwards. 


Eco-Mariner


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## Qsw (Feb 1, 2012)

Lanason said:


> My wife stepped on a manhole cover that gave way and her leg fell into the hole. Lucky it was an inspection cover for some of pipework, but she was still badly bruised and shaken - an old man came over and helped "big time" - he still waves whenever we pass that way and the incident was over 1 year ago:clap2::clap2::clap2:


Sorry to hear about that, glad that everything turned out well!


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## Qsw (Feb 1, 2012)

Eco-Mariner said:


> Much like the UK, Egypt is a mis-mash of immigrants dating back to the slave centuries of the Pharoahs. If they didn't escape they inter-married and throughout millenia Egypt never really found its own identity after the fall of the Roman Empire.
> The saying "once a cheat or thief always a cheat or thief" if the laws are not strong enough.
> 
> Over the last few centuries, western civilisations and populations created laws outside of religeous fervour to cope with the society's needs of that generation.
> ...


One of the problems is that it seems a lot of the people who aren't conservative have a hard time articulating their ideas, and explaining why they could be better. Conservatives always seem to be able to put liberals on the defensive, especially once you add religion to the mix.


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## Eco-Mariner (Jan 26, 2011)

Why not say it for real? Most are thick......Drerived from centuries of breeding with the same thickies.


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## expatagogo (May 31, 2010)

Eco-Mariner said:


> Why not say it for real? Most are thick......Drerived from centuries of breeding with the same thickies.


opcorn:


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