# Should I apply for us citizenship?



## charlesig (Feb 15, 2014)

Hello,

I know this is a personal decision, but we have some doubts. I would appreciate any advice.

In two months my wife and I can apply for citizenship after 5 years with green card. Our plan is to apply for us nationality and then go back to our country, Spain, and stay there the rest of our life.

We think it would be better to have double nationality so will have USA doors opened. Who knows if for whatever reason we decide to go back to USA.

I have been reading that there are more and more Americans renouncing to their nationality due to taxation. Is this so painful? Has anybody had any experience about it? 

Is having double nationality going to be a headache more than having the freedom to live wherever you want?

Thanks for any advice,

Charles


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

charlesig said:


> Hello,
> 
> I know this is a personal decision, but we have some doubts. I would appreciate any advice.
> 
> ...


you do realise that Spain doesn't recognise dual nationality?


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## charlesig (Feb 15, 2014)

Yes, I know. I meant: I would have two passports, not double nationality. Thx


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## kalohi (May 6, 2012)

This would put you in a difficult position with the Spanish government because they don't recognize dual nationality with the United States. I'm not sure if the United States would somehow inform Spain that you've taken on US citizenship, but even if they didn't you'd always have to hide the fact from Spanish authorities. 

The tax thing is not to be taken lightly. You would have to file a US income tax return reporting any income earned anywhere in the world for the rest of your life. There's a dual tax agreement on earned income under about $100,000, but you would be liable for paying tax on unearned income. You'd also have to file an FBAR report with the US Treasury Department every year if you have more than $10,000 in total in foreign banks or securities. 

I totally understand your concern, however, about not wanting to close doors on future possibilities in the US. Especially with the economic situation as it is in Spain I would not rush into anything. I think you're going to have to think long and hard about your prospects here and decide based on that. Good luck!


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## kalohi (May 6, 2012)

charlesig said:


> Yes, I know. I meant: I would have two passports, not double nationality. Thx


To get a US passport you have to take US citizenship. So you would be a dual national, Spain-United States.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

charlesig said:


> Yes, I know. I meant: I would have two passports, not double nationality. Thx


I'm not sure that you would have two passports - & that is the same as dual nationality

I know for sure that if I take Spanish nationality I have to hand over my UK passport & Spain sends it to the British Consulate

would the US not expect the same?


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## 213979 (Apr 11, 2013)

Now, the US isn't going to be any worse than Spain in terms of taxes, but I wouldn't do it if I were you. I would only get the nationality if you feel you want to be forever linked to a nation you say you're no longer going to live in. 

Are there any laws about the US revoking the nationality of naturalized citizens who move home? I know you can't get a green card if the US isn't going to be your residence...


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## charlesig (Feb 15, 2014)

When you say that you would be liable for paying tax on unearned income, then this income is not included in the dual tax agreement? What happens if in the future I have unearned income that I have paid taxes for in Spain. Should I also have to pay taxes for this to the usa?
Thanks very much.


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## charlesig (Feb 15, 2014)

I have read that there are many spaniards with usa and spanish passport and they don't have issues. Thanks very much


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

charlesig said:


> When you say that you would be liable for paying tax on unearned income, then this income is not included in the dual tax agreement? What happens if in the future I have unearned income that I have paid taxes for in Spain. Should I also have to pay taxes for this to the usa?
> Thanks very much.


have a look at our Tax forum - there are lots of US citizens living outside the US posting there Expat Tax - Expat Forum For People Moving Overseas And Living Abroad


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## maxd (Mar 22, 2009)

I would never take us citizenship because it is one of the only countries in the world where you have file a tax return even if you do not live there. Also you are liable to pay us taxes over a certain amount. They think they own you even when you are resident in spain. Secondly they have an exit tax on your wealth should you decide to renounce your US citizenship.

http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2012/05/18/tax-history-why-u-s-pursues-citizens-overseas/


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## kalohi (May 6, 2012)

charlesig said:


> When you say that you would be liable for paying tax on unearned income, then this income is not included in the dual tax agreement? What happens if in the future I have unearned income that I have paid taxes for in Spain. Should I also have to pay taxes for this to the usa?
> Thanks very much.


There's a Foreign Earned Income Exclusion and a Foreign Tax Credit...it's all rather complicated and I'm no expert. I agree that the place to start asking for details is on the Expat Tax forum here.


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## elisa31bcn (Jan 23, 2013)

Just to set the record straight on an American getting Spanish citizenship, they do not ask for your American passport. They do make you swear you intend to give up your American citizenship.


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## 213979 (Apr 11, 2013)

maxd said:


> I would never take us citizenship because it is one of the only countries in the world where you have file a tax return even if you do not live there. Also you are liable to pay us taxes over a certain amount. They think they own you even when you are resident in spain. Secondly they have an exit tax on your wealth should you decide to renounce your US citizenship.
> 
> Tax History: Why U.S. Pursues Citizens Overseas - Washington Wire - WSJ


It's a real pain in the neck.


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## charlesig (Feb 15, 2014)

*unearned income*

Question was answered thx


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## 90199 (Mar 21, 2010)

xabiachica said:


> I'm not sure that you would have two passports - & that is the same as dual nationality
> 
> I know for sure that if I take Spanish nationality I have to hand over my UK passport & Spain sends it to the British Consulate
> 
> would the US not expect the same?


One used to have to hand over the passport, not sure that that happens now
I am informed by the consulate here, because the U.K. authorities will not accept renunciation of nationality they will send your passport back to you.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Hepa said:


> One used to have to hand over the passport, not sure that that happens now
> I am informed by the consulate here, because the U.K. authorities will not accept renunciation of nationality they will send your passport back to you.


me too 

I don't know if that would apply to a Spaniard taking US citizenship though


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## Cappa (Apr 11, 2011)

xabiachica said:


> you do realise that Spain doesn't recognise dual nationality?



they don't ? I have both Spanish and US nationality......


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Cappa said:


> they don't ? I have both Spanish and US nationality......


best not tell Spain then


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## Cappa (Apr 11, 2011)

xabiachica said:


> best not tell Spain then


they know or else it wouldn't be allowed no lol? All my friends in similar position to me (born in USA to Spanish parents) all have dual nationalities and I don't think it's ever been an issue. I mean been to the Spanish consulate plenty of times here in the USA to renew paperwork such as DNI etc and they never stated otherwise.

I think they may not recognize under certain circumstances like if you're a Spanish citizen who becomes a citizen of another country after a certain age but those of us lucky to be born in another country to Spanish parents I think we are automatically allowed to be given dual nationality? AFAIK.


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## elisa31bcn (Jan 23, 2013)

All four of my sister's children have both passports, American mother, Spanish father born in Spain. And two are in the Spanish military, one as a doctor and the other a pilot. It is known that they have both passports, as they have both had to travel to the US for their jobs.
I believe it is a fairly common practice, although judging by some peoples' reactions here on the forum, it seems to be an area of controversy. I think it comes down to a personal choice whether to take the step.


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## kalohi (May 6, 2012)

Here it is, straight from the Ministero de Justicia webpage (red highlight is mine):


¿Qué nacionalidades es posible compartir con la española?

No es necesario que renuncien a su nacionalidad quienes fueran naturales de países iberoamericanos, de Andorra, Filipinas, Guinea Ecuatorial o Portugal. Se consideran países iberoamericanos a estos efectos aquéllos en los que el español o el portugués sean una de las lenguas oficiales.

A efectos de adquirir la doble nacionalidad Haití, Jamaica, Trinidad y Tobago y Guyana no se consideran iberoamericanos mientras que Puerto Rico sí se considera iberoamericano.


The Spanish National Police told me in no uncertain terms that nobody is allowed to hold both a US and a Spanish passport. When I was told that they were refering specifically to my children, who have a Spanish father and an American mother (me).


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## kalohi (May 6, 2012)

Of course none of this is to say that it doesn't happen and that they don't know that it happens. You just have to be careful not to let anyone in authority know.


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## Cappa (Apr 11, 2011)

kalohi said:


> Of course none of this is to say that it doesn't happen and that they don't know that it happens. You just have to be careful not to let anyone in authority know.


Agreed with this... it happens so frequently that I don't think it's ever any issue. It also probably has to do alot with what country you're from, etc.


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