# US Same sex marriage & Spain



## chicalteana (Feb 22, 2011)

Hi,
I am trying to get confirmation that US same sex marriages are recognized in Spain. A couple of people on expat forum said that SS US marriages are recognized in Spain but a Spanish lawyer in Madrid told me that he didn't think a SS marriage from the US would be recognized as it's not recognized here federally. Maybe it depends on the State/region that you live in in Spain.
Does anyone has any insight on this?

Thanks Kate


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Same sex marriages are recognised in Spain!

Jo xxx


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

jojo said:


> Same sex marriages are recognised in Spain!
> 
> Jo xxx


But the opposition People's Party have said they will repeal the same-sex marriage law if they get into power at the next election, due in a year's time.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Joppa said:


> But the opposition People's Party have said they will repeal the same-sex marriage law if they get into power at the next election, due in a year's time.


so they have...

but what can they do?

make everyone divorce?

they'd have to recognise the marriage first!!


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## Guest (Mar 20, 2011)

chicalteana said:


> Hi,
> I am trying to get confirmation that US same sex marriages are recognized in Spain. A couple of people on expat forum said that SS US marriages are recognized in Spain but a Spanish lawyer in Madrid told me that he didn't think a SS marriage from the US would be recognized as it's not recognized here federally. Maybe it depends on the State/region that you live in in Spain.
> Does anyone has any insight on this?
> 
> Thanks Kate


Kate, 

You're in Boston - forget asking Spanish lawyers and forums, and head to the Spanish Consulate and ask them! You'll have to legalize your marriage there I'm almost certain anyhow. They're at: 31 Saint James Ave. Suite 905 (Consulado de España en Boston) 

One tip, I found in my dealings with the consulate that you get better treatment if you speak Spanish. They have to deal with college students applying for study visas day in and day out, and they understandably seemed to be sick of silly questions in English. The guy was 20 times nicer to me the second I asked him my question in bad Spanish. 

Take care and best of luck!



EDIT: Regarding what you said about "depending on the region you're from in Spain," that wouldn't be true. Marriage here is a country wide issue and, to the best of my knowledge, does not vary between Autonomous Communities ("states").


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

xabiachica said:


> so they have...
> 
> but what can they do?
> 
> ...



.... and then they'd have a fight with European human rights.... !


Jo xxx


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

halydia said:


> Kate,
> 
> You're in Boston - forget asking Spanish lawyers and forums, and head to the Spanish Consulate and ask them! You'll have to legalize your marriage there I'm almost certain anyhow. They're at: 31 Saint James Ave. Suite 905 (Consulado de España en Boston)
> 
> ...



yes, that's how I understand it, too

although we did have a judge in Valencia who refused to perform gay marriages - she was 'sidelined' iirc


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## Guest (Mar 20, 2011)

xabiachica said:


> yes, that's how I understand it, too
> 
> although we did have a judge in Valencia who refused to perform gay marriages - she was 'sidelined' iirc


One judge. Knock on the next judge's door and you'll likely be ok.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

jojo said:


> .... and then they'd have a fight with European human rights.... !
> 
> 
> Jo xxx


Not necessarily. Each EU member state was given the right to opt out of certain parts of the EU Social Chapter. The UK, for example, has invoked a 'marriage' clause which restricts certain benefits to married couples. A a UK Civil Partnership is not fully equal in status to marriage the UK Government can quite legally enforce discrimination in survivor public sector pension benefits for Civil Partners.
So my OH will receive only a quarter of my pension compared to a widower or widow who would receive roughly half the full amount. Totally unfair and discriminatory but perfectly legal. 
Many EU states refuse Civil Partnerships let alone same-sex marriage.
The European Human Rights Act - not different in essence from the United Nations Charter of Human Rights, accepted by most of the world in 1948 - is widely misunderstood in its scope and application. 
It is also a bete noire for the right-wing media....although its use was invoked by opponents of the hunting ban.
But then consistency has never been a noted feature of the gutter press.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

mrypg9 said:


> Not necessarily. Each EU member state was given the right to opt out of certain parts of the EU Social Chapter. The UK, for example, has invoked a 'marriage' clause which restricts certain benefits to married couples. A a UK Civil Partnership is not fully equal in status to marriage the UK Government can quite legally enforce discrimination in survivor public sector pension benefits for Civil Partners.
> So my OH will receive only a quarter of my pension compared to a widower or widow who would receive roughly half the full amount. Totally unfair and discriminatory but perfectly legal.
> Many EU states refuse Civil Partnerships let alone same-sex marriage.
> The European Human Rights Act - not different in essence from the United Nations Charter of Human Rights, accepted by most of the world in 1948 - is widely misunderstood in its scope and application.
> ...


Well if anyone knows the answer to the OPs questions, it'll be you Mary! So your posts on here are invaluable!

Thanks

Jo xxx


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

jojo said:


> Well if anyone knows the answer to the OPs questions, it'll be you Mary! So your posts on here are invaluable!
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Jo xxx


Jo, I'm not even sure if our CP is recognised in Spain...One reason why our dosh is in the UK and offshore.
I've never been one to believe that one's sexual orientation should be a public matter...in a way I got involved in the 'equality' debate because I'm annoyed that what should be private has to be public because of a few bigots who interfere with people's private lives, usually because of their extreme religious views..
So I do wish every success to the OP in trying to make sense of this confused situation.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

mrypg9 said:


> Jo, I'm not even sure if our CP is recognised in Spain...One reason why our dosh is in the UK and offshore.
> I've never been one to believe that one's sexual orientation should be a public matter...in a way I got involved in the 'equality' debate because I'm annoyed that what should be private has to be public because of a few bigots who interfere with people's private lives, usually because of their extreme religious views..
> So I do wish every success to the OP in trying to make sense of this confused situation.


I totally agree with that one 100% It is no ones business what people do with or in their private lives, or who with! Probably, the simple answer is we all of us do much the same - get on with our work, chores, shopping, cooking, cleaning, ironing, eating, sleeping, watching tv etc! Who you share that little lot with has no bearing on anything. But, the law likes things to be tidy and CP does offer a certain amount of security in the event of the worst! Like any marriage, its simply a contract that covers many issues that may cause problems - its a business contract that covers all eventualities IMO! So I guess it matters who recognises it and quite frankly, wherever you are in the world, it should be respected and adhered to and thats the bit that you'd know more about. You're well travelled, you "do" politics, have half a brain (lol) and you've had occasion to understand the finer points all of this!


Jo xx


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

jojo said:


> I totally agree with that one 100% It is no ones business what people do with or in their private lives, or who with! Probably, the simple answer is we all of us do much the same - get on with our work, chores, shopping, cooking, cleaning, ironing, eating, sleeping, watching tv etc! Who you share that little lot with has no bearing on anything. But, the law likes things to be tidy and CP does offer a certain amount of security in the event of the worst! Like any marriage, its simply a contract that covers many issues that may cause problems - its a business contract that covers all eventualities IMO! So I guess it matters who recognises it and quite frankly, wherever you are in the world, it should be respected and adhered to and thats the bit that you'd know more about. You're well travelled, you "do" politics, have half a brain (lol) and you've had occasion to understand the finer points all of this!
> 
> 
> Jo xx


I think that a Civil Partnership should be an option for all couples, regardless of their sexual orientation. 
When we had ours, we did it with two male friends..lined up as a foursome. Our only fear was that the Registrar would partner me with Al and Sandra with Rob...but she got it right!!!
Before the ceremony the four of us went out to dinner to consider the official 'form of words' we wanted for the ceremony. We discarded everything that made us go 'Yuck...' and eventually came up with an emphasis on love,friendship, sharing,mutual support and understanding.
A reasonable basis for a lasting relationship for all...


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

xabiachica said:


> so they have...
> 
> but what can they do?
> 
> ...


I suppose those who are already in same-sex marriage can stay married, but they won't recognise any new unions, and withdraw tax and other advantages from all same-sex couples?


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Joppa said:


> I suppose those who are already in same-sex marriage can stay married, but they won't recognise any new unions, and withdraw tax and other advantages from all same-sex couples?


Not recognising new unions is reactionary and homophobic and withdrawing previously-awarded tax 'advantages' -presumably those which married heterosexual couples get - is petty and mean -spirited.
A good reason for not supporting these reactionaries.
Our local PP candidate made the news recently by talking about the 'alleged crimes of the Franco era'.
Scratch the surface and the rot underneath is revealed.....


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

mrypg9 said:


> Our local PP candidate made the news recently by talking about the 'alleged crimes of the Franco era'.
> Scratch the surface and the rot underneath is revealed.....


 Especially as there are still some of Francos "cronies" in government and his crazy rules still in place!!???????

Jo xxx


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

jojo said:


> Especially as there are still some of Francos "cronies" in government and his crazy rules still in place!!???????
> 
> Jo xxx


I remember when I came to Spain as a student in the late sixties there were notices on Spanish beaches which stated the dimensions of the swimming apparel permitted for both sexes .
There were also old men patrolling the beaches with tape measures to make sure that no female was exposing more than the permitted amount of flesh. 
This I saw with my own eyes, no myth.
I also remember seeing loads of priests and nuns just standing by the roadside with little suitcases. They didn't need to thumb a lift..they just stood and didn't wait long before a car stopped for them.
Every other Spaniard seemed to be in uniform.
It was a backward, priest-ridden poor society.........but very picturesque.
Rather like Communist Poland and Czechoslovakia. Societies where it seemed the clock had stopped decades earlier....so unlike the UK.


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## chicalteana (Feb 22, 2011)

halydia said:


> Kate,
> 
> You're in Boston - forget asking Spanish lawyers and forums, and head to the Spanish Consulate and ask them! You'll have to legalize your marriage there I'm almost certain anyhow. They're at: 31 Saint James Ave. Suite 905 (Consulado de España en Boston)
> 
> ...


Hi,
Thanks for the info. I have tried to email the Spanish Consulate in Boston and call them with no luck. I will stop in and speak to someone in Spanish (as you recommend) and get our marriage legalized.
There is so much opposing info around, also do you know if my SS spouse will need a visa to come to Spain with me?
Thanks again,
Kate


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## Guest (Mar 20, 2011)

chicalteana said:


> Hi,
> Thanks for the info. I have tried to email the Spanish Consulate in Boston and call them with no luck. I will stop in and speak to someone in Spanish (as you recommend) and get our marriage legalized.
> There is so much opposing info around, also do you know if my SS spouse will need a visa to come to Spain with me?
> Thanks again,
> Kate


Kate, 

This is one of those Spanish things where perseverance will get you answers. And, well, if you don't like the first answer you can always try again. You'd be surprised to find that, sometimes, answers change. Oh, and forget e-mailing Spanish bureaucratic institutions. In my experience, you're always better off making a phone call, OR going right to the office if you're lucky enough to be close by! Additionally, if you "know someone who knows someone" that often gets things done. 

I think that's going to be your best bet. I hate to say it, but this board isn't going to be much help. Stop stressing yourself out and go RIGHT to the source. Lots of time the information found online is inaccurate! It also seems as if the Spanish immigration system is changing, or has changed during my few years here. 

Regarding your spouse, I'm not sure, but I'd imagine so. Depends on what your visa status is (working? studying?) 

Good luck. Keep us updated! 

Take care.


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## lowblo (Oct 24, 2010)

This may be a bit off topic but my partner and I (same sex male couple) are emigrating to Malaga in mid-July and have been working through the LA Consulate to get our resident retirement visa. We have been registered as domestic partners from the date that California created such legal relationships; last October, we flew to Iowa and were officially married, primarily to have a marriage certificate for the Spanish authorities. (Traveling to Iowa from California to get married was ironic, to say the least, especially since we have been together for almost 30 years and had never wanted to get married per se.) We had absolutely no problem with our consulate visit. The only thing that we had to do (which we knew in advance) was to provide notarization that our finances were shared equally and that my various retirement accounts were shared jointly, since all of our retirement funds are in my name given that my partner was self-employed.


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