# Skills assessment query - Engineers Australia or ACS?



## nabil123 (Dec 14, 2014)

Hi all,

Given that 

1. I have a bachelors degree in Electrical Engineering from a Singaporean university and graduated in 2013,

2. I work as a business analyst (not in ICT) at a financial firm here in Singapore, with substantial programming work for analytics and,

3. Thus, I have zero work experience in electrical engineering, but some experience in programming at my current job,

Which assessment body should I go for? Engineers Australia or ACS? 

I currently have 70 points on the skills points (with de facto partner) for subclass 189. Thanks for your help!


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## espresso (Nov 2, 2012)

Hi nabil123, 

if you don't need any work experience points, I would probably go for EA in your case. They don't have a work experience requirement, you can use university projects for the "practical" CDRs. You won't be able to use your programming experience in the skills assessment or visa application. 

ACS has a minimum work experience requirement of two years post-bachelor-degree. Since your degree is not an ICT major, you'd need even more years of experience to get positive assessment. 

I wonder how you arrive at 70 points. Seems a lot to me, considering you are a recent graduate.


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## TheExpatriate (Feb 7, 2014)

espresso said:


> Hi nabil123,
> 
> if you don't need any work experience points, I would probably go for EA in your case. They don't have a work experience requirement, you can use university projects for the "practical" CDRs. You won't be able to use your programming experience in the skills assessment or visa application.
> 
> ...


in this case it's not even two, it's six since Electrical Engineering is a non-ICT degree


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## espresso (Nov 2, 2012)

It could be a five year deduction if he has enough ICT subjects in the EE degree . In any case, 1 year of relevant work experience is not near-where enough...


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## TheExpatriate (Feb 7, 2014)

espresso said:


> It could be a five year deduction if he has enough ICT subjects in the EE degree . In any case, 1 year of relevant work experience is not near-where enough...


well yeah, 4, 5 or 6, it still a far cry from the situation at hand


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## hmall (Dec 14, 2014)

Hello,

I need help in "Previous Employer Reference Letter" for ACS evaluation.

I am a B.Tech in EE (2001-2005) and have 9.5 years of experience in IT industry.

As I have understood, I need to collect previous employer's reference letter mentioning roles and responsibilities along with other employment details.

Can someone please help verify the draft version? Please help correct if there are any mistakes or add if something is missing.

I will ask the HR to give this on company's letter head (I will try my best as now I am back with the same company )

<DRAFT REFERENCE LETTER>

This is to certify that <NAME> was an employee of <COMPANY>, at <LOCATION> and was employed from START DATE until END DATE.

<NAME> was employed on a Full Time basis as a Senior Software Engineer.

Duties / Responsibilities:

Analyze and develop Proof of concepts to demonstrate the design feasibility and clear understanding of the requirements
Design, develop and test high quality and scalable Java/J2EE based web based applications for clients
Develop and test new features in existing applications for clients to meet the new requirements and specifications
Debug and fix bugs/faults in applications and provide technical support for issues on production servers
Develop test plans to verify logic of new or modified programs and conducts quality assurance activities such as peer reviews
Design databases schema as per the technical specification, writing sql queries and stored procedures using Oracle 9i/10g
Deployment of Java/J2EE based web applications in production environment


Technologies used:
Java/J2EE, Servlets, JSP, JDBC, Convera, JNDI, JavaMail API, Struts, Spring IOC

Web Application Servers:

ATG 6.4.0, IBM WebSphere Application Server

Relational Databases:

Oracle 9i/10g

Operating Systems:

Sun Solaris, Red Hat Linux

PS: In this draft, I have omitted the other details such as Address, etc.

Queries:
1) Am I on the right lines as far as the draft is concerned?
2) On Page:13, it says Job references are not suitable if "the referee's relationship with the applicant is unclear". Is it ok to get it from HR? or it is mandatory to get from manager/colleague? 
3) On Page: 12, acs.org.au/__data/assets/pdf...Applicants.pdf, it says "Generic Job descriptions are not acceptable and will be accessed as non-suitable". However the sample reference letter is pretty generic. I am curious if I need to include technical information such as technologies used, etc


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## nabil123 (Dec 14, 2014)

espresso said:


> Hi nabil123,
> 
> if you don't need any work experience points, I would probably go for EA in your case. They don't have a work experience requirement, you can use university projects for the "practical" CDRs. You won't be able to use your programming experience in the skills assessment or visa application.
> 
> ...


Hi espresso, thanks for the great advice. However, my degree is from a university in Singapore which is a signatory of the Washington Accord, so do I still need to go via the CDR pathway? I thought that was only for non-accredited programs. 

Just as an aside, how important are course grades in their assessment? Because I have a third class honours Bachelor of Engineering degree from my university. Do they look at academic transcripts thoroughly?

And I'll turn 25 in April, so my points are 70 according to the below: 
Age - 30
Gen Ed - 15
English Language - 20
Partner - 5


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## TheExpatriate (Feb 7, 2014)

nabil123 said:


> Hi espresso, thanks for the great advice. However, my degree is from a university in Singapore which is a signatory of the Washington Accord, so do I still need to go via the CDR pathway? I thought that was only for non-accredited programs.
> 
> Just as an aside, how important are course grades in their assessment? Because I have a third class honours Bachelor of Engineering degree from my university. Do they look at academic transcripts thoroughly?
> 
> ...


did you score all 8s in IELTS (or equivalent) already?

What is your partner's occupation? is it on SOL? Is she assessed for it or not yet? did she get all 6s in IELTS (or equivalent)?


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## nabil123 (Dec 14, 2014)

TheExpatriate said:


> did you score all 8s in IELTS (or equivalent) already?
> 
> What is your partner's occupation? is it on SOL? Is she assessed for it or not yet? did she get all 6s in IELTS (or equivalent)?


*1. did you score all 8s in IELTS (or equivalent) already?*
Not yet, but expecting to based on my previous score of 112 on the TOEFL IBT years ago. Can I take TOEFL again instead of IELTS? It's listed as an alternative on immi.gov.au effective Nov 2014.

*2. What is your partner's occupation? is it on SOL?*

Early childhood educator and she got 85 points with de facto partner: 
Age - 30 
Gen Ed - 15
English Language - 20
Designated Language - 5 (Filipino)
Occupation exp - 10
Partner - 5

She's also not taken the IELTS yet but she did get 8.5 (R), 8 (L), 7.5 (S), 7 (W) years ago. She's expecting to improve her score too.

We plan to apply at the same time as partners early 2015 and we have lease contracts, photos, travel docs, etc. for relationship evidence. Do you think we stand a good chance?


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## TheExpatriate (Feb 7, 2014)

nabil123 said:


> *1. did you score all 8s in IELTS (or equivalent) already?*
> Not yet, but expecting to based on my previous score of 112 on the TOEFL IBT years ago. Can I take TOEFL again instead of IELTS? It's listed as an alternative on immi.gov.au effective Nov 2014.
> 
> *2. What is your partner's occupation? is it on SOL?*
> ...



1- TOEFL iBT equivalent of all 8s in IELTS is L 28, R 29, W 30, S 26 (total 113, and must meet all four sub-scores), so your TOEFL score of 112 for sure does not meet the requirements to score 20 points. 

My TOEFL iBT score is 116 and yet I cannot claim 8 based on it because my Reading score is 28 not 29 ! 

2- Did she get assessed as a childhood educator? without an assessment and an IELTS/TOEFL score you can NOT claim partner points

You can NOT also claim designated community language without passing NAATI score as paraprofessional translator or paraprofessional interpreter for this language. I am a native Arabic Speaker (which is a designated community language) and could not just claim those points based on my citizenship or nativity.


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## nabil123 (Dec 14, 2014)

TheExpatriate said:


> 1- TOEFL iBT equivalent of all 8s in IELTS is L 28, R 29, W 30, S 26 (total 113, and must meet all four sub-scores), so your TOEFL score of 112 for sure does not meet the requirements to score 20 points.
> 
> My TOEFL iBT score is 116 and yet I cannot claim 8 based on it because my Reading score is 28 not 29 !
> 
> ...


1. Understood, we'll need to be careful about this and work hard to score higher points. 

2. She will apply for assessment at the same time as me, and submit the EOI at the same time too. Also, do we submit the EOI together or separately?

3. Ah ok, understood about the NAATI score. She may try for it as she's very good at the language.


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## TheExpatriate (Feb 7, 2014)

nabil123 said:


> 1. Understood, we'll need to be careful about this and work hard to score higher points.
> 
> 2. She will apply for assessment at the same time as me, and submit the EOI at the same time too. Also, do we submit the EOI together or separately?
> 
> 3. Ah ok, understood about the NAATI score. She may try for it as she's very good at the language.


1- No problem, just do not assume you are claiming the 20 points easy, even for her, 8.5 (R), 8 (L), 7.5 (S), 7 (W) cannot claim 20 and is far from 20 since she'd need to enhance Speaking and writing ....

2- Either of you will apply for the EOI and include the other, no need for two EOIs

3- NAATI test is complicated, expensive, not available everywhere (specific cities only) , takes place offshore only twice a year, and costly ....... not worth it for the 5 extra points


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## nabil123 (Dec 14, 2014)

TheExpatriate said:


> 1- No problem, just do not assume you are claiming the 20 points easy, even for her, 8.5 (R), 8 (L), 7.5 (S), 7 (W) cannot claim 20 and is far from 20 since she'd need to enhance Speaking and writing ....
> 
> 2- Either of you will apply for the EOI and include the other, no need for two EOIs
> 
> 3- NAATI test is complicated, expensive, not available everywhere (specific cities only) , takes place offshore only twice a year, and costly ....... not worth it for the 5 extra points


Thanks, yeah I think for her assessment she needs a high IELTS score anyway for her to get a positive result. And yeah probably not NAATI either, not worth it. 

The main query I have though, is how much importance does EA put on transcripts? As I have a 3rd class honours degree, it's not exactly the best. Would it warrant a rejection?


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## TheExpatriate (Feb 7, 2014)

nabil123 said:


> Thanks, yeah I think for her assessment she needs a high IELTS score anyway for her to get a positive result. And yeah probably not NAATI either, not worth it.
> 
> The main query I have though, is how much importance does EA put on transcripts? As I have a 3rd class honours degree, it's not exactly the best. Would it warrant a rejection?


as long as you passed you're OK. I passed narrowly with a very low GPA and ACS approved me as well.


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## nabil123 (Dec 14, 2014)

TheExpatriate said:


> as long as you passed you're OK. I passed narrowly with a very low GPA and ACS approved me as well.


Nice! Glad to know I shouldn't worry over that too much. Also, do I need CDR since Singapore is signatory to the Washington Accord?


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## TheExpatriate (Feb 7, 2014)

nabil123 said:


> Nice! Glad to know I shouldn't worry over that too much. Also, do I need CDR since Singapore is signatory to the Washington Accord?


I don't think so


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## espresso (Nov 2, 2012)

Nope, if your university is covered by the Washington Accord then you don't need to prepare CDRs. The other advantage is that you should get your assessment result a lot quicker. Marks don't matter as long as you passed .


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## nabil123 (Dec 14, 2014)

TheExpatriate said:


> I don't think so


Thanks. Do you think it's generally wise for a fresh electrical engineering graduate with zero relevant work experience to migrate on subclass 189? Will it be too difficult to find an engineering job? And can I try to get an engineering job there while in Singapore?


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## TheExpatriate (Feb 7, 2014)

nabil123 said:


> Thanks. Do you think it's generally wise for a fresh electrical engineering graduate with zero relevant work experience to migrate on subclass 189? Will it be too difficult to find an engineering job? And can I try to get an engineering job there while in Singapore?


you don't have to work the same occupation, get your PR and go find whatever job that suits you.


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## nabil123 (Dec 14, 2014)

TheExpatriate said:


> you don't have to work the same occupation, get your PR and go find whatever job that suits you.


Thanks. @espresso & @TheExpatriate, I was hoping that if I do get the PR, that I try to find a job there from Singapore itself. Is this too difficult to achieve? As it's too costly to go live there while being jobless for months.


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## TheExpatriate (Feb 7, 2014)

nabil123 said:


> Thanks. @espresso & @TheExpatriate, I was hoping that if I do get the PR, that I try to find a job there from Singapore itself. Is this too difficult to achieve? As it's too costly to go live there while being jobless for months.


it's a bit difficult ....... albeit not impossible.


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## kunaltatkar (Oct 27, 2015)

Hi Guys, 
I am Software Tester, having 5.5 years of experience. I have done my Engineering degree, from a Non IT background, Instrumentation engineering from University of Mumbai. 
Reading from previous threads, I feel it is unlikely I would get any points for experience, But would ACS at least, consider my education, and would I be eligible to claim 15 points for Education ?

What are the options for me to claim points for education, if not ACS, considering the fact that I need to apply for job type software tester only.

Would EA or Vetasses help me for this ? 

Thanks & Regards,
Kunal


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## Nibysara Subin (Dec 15, 2015)

Hi Guys,

I have got a query and hoping that someone can help me out here, I am an BE in Instrumentation Engineering and also have 4 years of experience working as an Design Engineer, and my ANZSCO Work Code is 233513 Production or Plant Engineer - which has an Assessing Body as Engineer Australia, 

My current company where I have been working since 4 years till date, has straight forward rejected in giving a reference letter on company letter head.

I need to get a positive assessment to earn 5 points for spouse application(along with my Husband who is the primary Applicant).

Question:

1) Can I apply for assessment with EA Without showing my experience?
2) I have got a statutory declaration made by one of my supervisor on a stamp Paper and also Notarized, however MSA Booklet says to get a reference letter on a Company Letter head along with the declaration? if I had a reference I need not make a Declaration in the first place. if anyone understands this situation can you kindly help ?

Option 3:
• Reference letter endorsed by the Manager/Direct Supervisor/Human Resources Department, with
letter head, stamp, full address of the company and telephone, fax numbers, email and website addresses and date of commencement and finish etc.
AND
• Statutory Declaration/Affidavit by a direct supervisor providing your duties 

Thanks in advance for your help


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