# Adjunct to free health care topic



## andyviola (Aug 11, 2018)

The officials in the Tarragona Police Station said that the reason Brits need to prove they have private health care before applying for resedencia (which we seek to apply for free health care) is that so many Brits are now using Spain for health tourism due to NHS being so poor ! So they weeding out the "Not serious"!


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## kalohi (May 6, 2012)

Everyone from all over the world has to demonstrate that they have health cover in order to become resident in Spain.


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## andyviola (Aug 11, 2018)

kalohi said:


> Everyone from all over the world has to demonstrate that they have health cover in order to become resident in Spain.


well I just the messenger


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

andyviola said:


> The officials in the Tarragona Police Station said that the reason Brits need to prove they have private health care before applying for resedencia (which we seek to apply for free health care) is that so many Brits are now using Spain for health tourism due to NHS being so poor ! So they weeding out the "Not serious"!


If you are a Brit in receipt of the SRP you are currently entitled to free health care which is free to us at point of use like the NHS but is paid for by the UK Government which sends Spain an annual amount of just under €5000 per person .


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

andyviola said:


> The officials in the Tarragona Police Station said that the reason Brits need to prove they have private health care before applying for resedencia *(which we seek to apply for free health care)* is that so many Brits are now using Spain for health tourism due to NHS being so poor ! So they weeding out the "Not serious"!


Being a registered resident wouldn't entitle you to free healthcare in any case.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

mrypg9 said:


> If you are a Brit in receipt of the SRP you are currently entitled to free health care which is free to us at point of use like the NHS *but is paid for by the UK Government which sends Spain an annual amount of just under €5000 per person* .


Exactly - so it isn't 'free'. 

If the OP were entitled to this, they'd have an S1.


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## andyviola (Aug 11, 2018)

indeed im a youngster 52 no S1 poss hahaha (by the time I am pensioner wife will be 71 as she 4 years older and she dont want to wait that long and be that age to live in sunny spain)

well funny thing is that I knew about the "health care to get health care lovely" from this group but my agent who acting as gestor (and to be fair she knows mosts things) didnt so the trip to Police today finally showed her that I was wasnt being doom-and-gloom and its all true 

her remark on whatsapp "oh ye of little faith" when I pre-explaiined this now seems funny


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

andyviola said:


> indeed im a youngster 52 no S1 poss hahaha
> 
> well funny thing is that I knew about the "health care to get health care lovely" from this group but my agent (who knows mosts things) didnt so the trip to Police today finally showed her that I was wasnt being doom-and-gloom and its all true
> 
> her remark on whatsapp "oh ye of little faith" when I pre-explaiined this now seems funny


At this pre-Brexit point I believe the old rules for obtaining Residencia apply, namely the requirement to show that you have adequate cover for health care and that you are in receipt of a regular income and sufficient funds depending it seems on where you apply.


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## andyviola (Aug 11, 2018)

mrypg9 said:


> At this pre-Brexit point I believe the old rules for obtaining Residencia apply, namely the requirement to show that you have adequate cover for health care and that you are in receipt of a regular income and sufficient funds depending it seems on where you apply.


thanks yes I have v good savings, I hope income coming from working remote into uk and transferring money into bank account will be ok


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

andyviola said:


> thanks yes I have v good savings, I hope income coming from working remote into uk and transferring money into bank account will be ok


Well, that’s what I have done for the past eleven years, UK funds transferred here. The income has to be in euros and paid into a Spanish bank account.
I guess you’re going to have to get private health cover for the two of you.


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## andyviola (Aug 11, 2018)

mrypg9 said:


> Well, that’s what I have done for the past eleven years, UK funds transferred here. The income has to be in euros and paid into a Spanish bank account.
> I guess you’re going to have to get private health cover for the two of you.


yes indeed, both of us - just a necessary evil. good to know they accept transfers as income ....very appreciative of all your fast responses


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

andyviola said:


> yes indeed, both of us - just a necessary evil. good to know they accept transfers as income ....very appreciative of all your fast responses


I came here from Prague, already officially retired but flying back once or twice a week to teach MFL and work on an expenses only basis, free flights, hotels, for my professional association (aka a trades union).
I also travelled to Canada where we’d bought a property as that was our first retirement destination.
Because I was using Czech crowns, £ sterling, Canadian dollars and euros I opened an offshore account in different currencies. In those days you could open an offshore account by depositing £100, $100 or €100. The rules have changed now, most offshore banks require at least £25k as opening deposit. I’ve been able to keep my accounts with my offshore bank of a British UK bank. for nearly twenty years now.
So when the exchange rate is favourable I change my € to £ then pay once every quarter or so into my BS account here.
I try to keep my balance with BS fairly low as Ive heard horror stories about accounts being embargoed for fines that were somebody else’s....or TA taking out money for unpaid tax they think you owe. As I got a demand from TA recently for €6000 in tax they wrongly said I owed Im cautious.
When you are resident and tax resident in Spain you will have to pay tax on your UK earnings unless subject to a DTA.


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## andyviola (Aug 11, 2018)

Thanks yes my company unlikely to keep employing me but they say will then hopefully employ me as contractor.. automaton here. And I will invoice them in euros. If they discontinue employment entirely well not a tragedy. ..i hate their guts (just the work can be ok sometimes)


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

andyviola said:


> Thanks yes my company unlikely to keep employing me but they say will then hopefully employ me as contractor.. automaton here. And I will invoice them in euros. If they discontinue employment entirely well not a tragedy. ..i hate their guts (just the work can be ok sometimes)


My advice for what it's worth...retire as soon as you have enough money to live the lifestyle you are comfortable with. I found that things I used to think important don't matter much any more. My partner owned repairing garages so I drove high end cars, Mercs, BMWs, LandRovers. Now I drive a Dacia Duster and tbh it's the best VFM car I've ever owned. I love it


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## andyviola (Aug 11, 2018)

Good advice well done. I won't work past 55 as can draw down pension but I could live on savings now and retire early


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

andyviola said:


> indeed im a youngster 52 no S1 poss hahaha (by the time I am pensioner wife will be 71 as she 4 years older and she dont want to wait that long and be that age to live in sunny spain)
> 
> *well funny thing is that I knew about the "health care to get health care lovely" from this group* but my agent who acting as gestor (and to be fair she knows mosts things) didnt so the trip to Police today finally showed her that I was wasnt being doom-and-gloom and its all true
> 
> her remark on whatsapp "oh ye of little faith" when I pre-explaiined this now seems funny


For a short while it looked as if (in some opinions) all registered residents might get free healthcare. Even Andalucía has 'reinstated' the convenio especial now - & most of us on this forum believed that you'd still have to prove healthcare provision in order to register in the first place


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## andyviola (Aug 11, 2018)

xabiaxica said:


> For a short while it looked as if (in some opinions) all registered residents might get free healthcare. Even Andalucía has 'reinstated' the convenio especial now - & most of us on this forum believed that you'd still have to prove healthcare provision in order to register in the first place


if i wasnt used to disappointment Id be having a nervous breakdown.

On the day in which (as expected but had to be sure for agent/gestor's benefit) our application for the residency card rejected, vodafone engineer came to our house and refused to activate our line saying he MUST have a residency card. argggggg!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :mad2:

And we bought a 300k house with NIE on paper lol, isnt life bizarre 

Needless to say our agent come gestor will be chasing vodafone hard on this - strange they dont want my 74 a month..... (Orange mobile didnt baulk at paper NIE)


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## Juan C (Sep 4, 2017)

This would appear to confirm free health cover for all who do not have access to cover 

https://ec.europa.eu/migrant-integr...niversal-access-to-the-national-health-system


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Juan C said:


> This would appear to confirm free health cover for all who do not have access to cover
> 
> https://ec.europa.eu/migrant-integr...niversal-access-to-the-national-health-system


 Yes, I think we know that the law was *passed*, but it hasn't been *implemented* by the local health authorities and doesn't look like it will be. Certainly no one should make plans around this happening, especially in the current political situation.
Also there are different interpretations of the conditions applied to this health cover, as discussed in other threads


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## Juan C (Sep 4, 2017)

At the risk of being boring, 

I have posted previously that an American friend, living in andalucia, with residencia from before March 2007, after some ‘discussions’ with the heath authority, obtained the free cover. 

He subsequently enjoyed several years of full medical treatment including hospitalisation, up until he died of cancer.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Juan C said:


> At the risk of being boring,
> 
> I have posted previously that an American friend, living in andalucia, with residencia from before March 2007, after some ‘discussions’ with the heath authority, obtained the free cover.
> 
> He subsequently enjoyed several years of full medical treatment including hospitalisation, up until he died of cancer.


Yes, he should have had free cover - along with everyone else registered before April 24 2012.


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

At the risk of being boring... (I have posted this before)...

The new law basically says that all people in Spain can have free health care from the national system UNLESS they are required to have private health care under another law or procedure.

Documented immigrants who do not qualify for refugee status (i.e. most of us) DO have to have private health care under the immigration law (Ley de Extranjería) which has not been repealed / amended.

So the provision of Rajoy's law gives free health care only to refugees / undocumented immigrants who are not bound to have private care under a different law, but leaves us in the same situation as before.


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## Juan C (Sep 4, 2017)

Over and out. 

My USA friend was not a refugee. He only had to say he did not have the right to free cover from anywhere


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

Juan C said:


> Over and out.
> 
> My USA friend was not a refugee. He only had to say he did not have the right to free cover from anywhere


And?

I'm not discussing what may have happened in individual cases in reality, even an entire CA (Andalucia) appeared to have at one point misinterpreted Rajoy's law, so there are probably many examples where things don't work out in reality as written down.

I'm just telling the readers of the forum that they have no legal right to demand free health care as immigrants under Rajoy's law, despite what many people seem to believe.

Would I still take it if I could get it? Of course, but I would know that it was a mistake.


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

Juan C said:


> Over and out.
> 
> My USA friend was not a refugee. He only had to say he did not have the right to free cover from anywhere


Yes - as Xabiaxica pointed out, because he was resident before April 2012. That would not apply to more recent arrivals.

As far as I am aware people have to do more than simply say they are not entitled to healthcare funded by their country of origin or anywhere else - they have to provide proof of that claim. For UK citizens that takes the form of the so-called "legislation letter" from the DWP.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Lynn R said:


> Yes - as Xabiaxica pointed out, because he was resident before April 2012. That would not apply to more recent arrivals.
> 
> As far as I am aware people have to do more than simply say they are not entitled to healthcare funded by their country of origin or anywhere else - they have to provide proof of that claim. * For UK citizens that takes the form of the so-called "legislation letter" *from the DWP.


and for other EU citizens, e.g. the woman who lives round the corner who has another EU citizenship.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Juan C said:


> Over and out.
> 
> My USA friend was not a refugee. He only had to say he did not have the right to free cover from anywhere


It doesn't matter whether he was a refugee or not.

He was entitled to free healthcare simply because he was registered as a resident before April 24 2012, and had no access to state cover elsewhere.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

baldilocks said:


> and for other EU citizens, e.g. the woman who lives round the corner who has another EU citizenship.


In fact everyone in that position, regardless of nationality.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

deleted


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## Juan C (Sep 4, 2017)

overandout

I would be interested to hear your opinion on:
. https://www.efe.com/efe/english/lif...-universal-health-care-model/50000263-3704096


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

Juan C said:


> overandout
> 
> I would be interested to hear your opinion on:
> . https://www.efe.com/efe/english/lif...-universal-health-care-model/50000263-3704096


It seems to be a correct interpretation of the situation. Note the last phrase:

"Now, immigrants in an irregular situation will have the right to health care under the same conditions as Spaniards without having to justify their residence in Spain if social services confirm that their country of origin cannot pay toward the cover."

Maybe they should have added something like "although for regularised immigrants, the situation dictated by the laws of immigration still stands".


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## Barriej (Jul 23, 2012)

Overandout said:


> It seems to be a correct interpretation of the situation. Note the last phrase:
> 
> "Now, immigrants in an irregular situation will have the right to health care under the same conditions as Spaniards without having to justify their residence in Spain if social services confirm that their country of origin cannot pay toward the cover."
> 
> Maybe they should have added something like "although for regularised immigrants, the situation dictated by the laws of immigration still stands".


That last phrase got me. 
Should it not say that the country of origin WONT pay?

Most countries can pay, the Uk included but doesn't unless you are a pensioner and have the S1. 
Do the other EU countries pay anything towards the Uk's Health service for their Expats?


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Barriej said:


> That last phrase got me.
> Should it not say that the country of origin WONT pay?
> 
> Most countries can pay, the Uk included but doesn't unless you are a pensioner and have the S1.
> *Do the other EU countries pay anything towards the Uk's Health service for their Expats?*


Of course they do, if they have an S1. It's a reciprocal agreement.


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## Barriej (Jul 23, 2012)

xabiaxica said:


> Of course they do, if they have an S1. It's a reciprocal agreement.


I suppose thats nice to know and goes against all the comments about foreigners (Eu expats) moving to the Uk for free healthcare.

Wonder why it was not headline news during the brexit vote, I'm sure some leavers might have been swayed not to vote the way they did.


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## Simply Simon (Jan 18, 2019)

Barriej said:


> That last phrase got me.
> Should it not say that the country of origin WONT pay?
> 
> Most countries can pay, the Uk included but doesn't unless you are a pensioner and have the S1.
> Do the other EU countries pay anything towards the Uk's Health service for their Expats?


Shhhh. Don't tell the Brexit mob or the Daily Mail, because it will upset them, they don't like facts - , but yes, they do, and as there are more of 'them' in the UK than 'us' roaming free in Europe that's another example of how well the UK does as a member of the EU.


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## Juan C (Sep 4, 2017)

Health cover in U.K. is provided free to everyone who lives there, thus I do not think an S1 is required by those from other countries. I would be interested to hear from some one who has been required to supply one when they moved to U.K.


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

Juan C said:


> Health cover in U.K. is provided free to everyone who lives there


No, it isn't. Non EU citizens are now required to pay an NHS surcharge of 400 pounds per year per head, with students and those on the Youth Mobility Scheme paying 300 pounds.

https://www.msn.com/en-in/money/new...dian-non-eu-migrants-from-tomorrow/ar-BBRUP6O


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## Juan C (Sep 4, 2017)

Thanks Lynn. 

I was thinking about the S1 comment

Am I wrong in thinking EU nationals get automatic free cover once they live in U.K.?


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## andyviola (Aug 11, 2018)

Lynn R said:


> No, it isn't. Non EU citizens are now required to pay an NHS surcharge of 400 pounds per year per head, with students and those on the Youth Mobility Scheme paying 300 pounds.
> 
> https://www.msn.com/en-in/money/new...dian-non-eu-migrants-from-tomorrow/ar-BBRUP6O


wasnt there some controversy about people in UK who have never owned a passport proving they are Euro? though seemed easily solved if you have NHS card etc.


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

andyviola said:


> wasnt there some controversy about people in UK who have never owned a passport proving they are Euro? though seemed easily solved if you have NHS card etc.


I think that was possibly the "Windrush generation" people who had settled in the UK but never applied for a British passport, who were having trouble proving that they had the right to remain in the UK (especially as the UK Government had ordered their landing cards to be destroyed so they could not prove when they had entered the country).

But the controversy I thought I remembered (and have been trying to find information about) was about the fact that EU citizens in certain circumstances ARE required to have private health insurance (although practically nobody appeared to be aware of that fact until some people were refused permanent resident status in the UK because of it). Here is a link:-

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-39014191


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

Juan C said:


> Thanks Lynn.
> 
> I was thinking about the S1 comment
> 
> Am I wrong in thinking EU nationals get automatic free cover once they live in U.K.?


See information in the link I posted above about the fact that non working EU nationals living in the UK are supposedly required to have private health insurance.

Any EU citizen living and working in the UK would of course be entitled to NHS treatment by virtue of their NI contributions (as would their family members), just as British citizens who are employed or self-employed and paying Spanish SS are entitled to Spanish public health cover. Non EU citizens who are working in the UK need to pay the NHS surcharge for themselves and their family members on top of their NI contributions, which personally I think is quite wrong.

I guess EU nationals who are living in the UK and in receipt of a state pension from another EU country would need an S1 from their own country, but probably there are very few in that position.

Whatever the official requirements are, the situation in reality is no doubt complicated by the stance of many NHS workers that they are not immigration officials and will not carry out checks to ensure that patients are entitled to receive NHS treatment, and many hospitals don't seem to have effective procedures in place for collecting payment even when it is clear that the patient should be charged.


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

Lynn R said:


> See information in the link I posted above about the fact that non working EU nationals living in the UK are supposedly required to have private health insurance.
> 
> Any EU citizen living and working in the UK would of course be entitled to NHS treatment by virtue of their NI contributions (as would their family members), just as British citizens who are employed or self-employed and paying Spanish SS are entitled to Spanish public health cover. Non EU citizens who are working in the UK need to pay the NHS surcharge for themselves and their family members on top of their NI contributions, which personally I think is quite wrong.
> 
> ...


I thought access to the NHS is the U.K. was based on residency it NI contribution?

Those of us working or who have worked in the NHS will NOT determine who gets treatment and who does not, Many of us have asked for proper NHS cards which need to be presented at every appointment, the civl libertarians thought this was an infringement on their human rights 

Although not working now, it’s was not my job to decide who gets treated that’s why we have governmental departments to clarify the situation. Hospitals do have perfectly adequate financial departments to claim back moneys from overseas visitors. I personally have witness and processed many of these.


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

Megsmum said:


> I thought access to the NHS is the U.K. was based on residency it NI contribution?
> 
> .


I always thought so, but according to the reports of EU citizens who cannot prove that they have been working or looking for work being told that they need to have private health insurance, apparently it is not so. Of course, the UK are following EU rules in that regard, I am not complaining about that.

It is very confusing, though, because this guide to NHS eligibility for migrants says that eligibiity to treatment IS residence based.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/nhs-entitlements-migrant-health-guide


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

Megsmum said:


> Hospitals do have perfectly adequate financial departments to claim back moneys from overseas visitors. I personally have witness and processed many of these.


I'm sure some of them do. But the fact that the NHS has felt it necessary (in 2018) to set up an Improvement Programme for recovering costs from overseas visitors (with 51 trust to receive intensive support) indicates to me that the situation is far from perfect.

https://improvement.nhs.uk/resources/overseas-visitor-cost-improvement-programme/


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