# Living in Spain: The good and the bad



## Donna773 (Dec 12, 2010)

I'm working on a Grumpy Old Gran article highlighting the good points and the bad points of living in Spain as opposed to the UK and would love to know ExpatForum members' views. Basically I'm looking for a 1,2,3 of the best things and a 1,2,3 of where Britain is superior. UK based members can take part in the survey too, as long as they are regular visitors to Spain or its territories. If you can't think of three things, then just one or two will do. It's not going to be part of official statistics or anything like that! I have my own thoughts on the subject, but will keep them to myself for the time being because I don't want to put ideas into anyone's head. :tape::tape::tape:


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Donna773 said:


> I'm working on a Grumpy Old Gran article highlighting the good points and the bad points of living in Spain as opposed to the UK and would love to know ExpatForum members' views. Basically I'm looking for a 1,2,3 of the best things and a 1,2,3 of where Britain is superior. UK based members can take part in the survey too, as long as they are regular visitors to Spain or its territories. If you can't think of three things, then just one or two will do. It's not going to be part of official statistics or anything like that! I have my own thoughts on the subject, but will keep them to myself for the time being because I don't want to put ideas into anyone's head. :tape::tape::tape:


Donna, do a search'cos it's been discussed before - smth like what do you like about Spain? Or love and hate, or stuff like that.

I seem to remember creative parking, roundabout behaviour and use/ disuse of indicators featuring on the lists.


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## Donna773 (Dec 12, 2010)

*Living in Spain: The good points and the bad*



Donna773 said:


> I'm working on a Grumpy Old Gran article highlighting the good points and the bad points of living in Spain as opposed to the UK and would love to know ExpatForum members' views. Basically I'm looking for a 1,2,3 of the best things and a 1,2,3 of where Britain is superior. UK based members can take part in the survey too, as long as they are regular visitors to Spain or its territories. If you can't think of three things, then just one or two will do. It's not going to be part of official statistics or anything like that! I have my own thoughts on the subject, but will keep them to myself for the time being because I don't want to put ideas into anyone's head. :tape::tape::tape:


I'm sorry the Thread title line is gibberish. It should say Liviung in Spain: The good and the bad'' but I pressed the Submit button too soon!


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Donna773 said:


> I'm sorry the Thread title line is gibberish. It should say Liviung in Spain: The good and the bad'' but I pressed the Submit button too soon!


Is that better???????? 

Jo xxx


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

My good things about Spain all relate to the Andalusian attitude to life, rather than the obvious stuff like the weather or the scenery: 

1. Personal responsibility still prevails. If you take risks and hurt yourself it's your own fault - you don't sue somebody else. So the country isn't covered in signs warning you not to go too near the edge.

2. Older people are respected, not shut away in homes. Fifty-something women do not suddenly become invisible. It's OK to go out for a drink with your grandparents.

3. Shops are closed on Sundays because it is still more important that people have one day a week with their families than it is to maximise every opportunity to make a profit.

I'm afraid I can't think of any way in which Britain is superior, except for the beer.


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## Donna773 (Dec 12, 2010)

jojo said:


> Is that better????????
> 
> Jo xxx


Perfecto. Many thanks Jo


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## xicoalc (Apr 20, 2010)

Totally agree with Alcalaina about older people and respect. For me as follows:

1. The safety factor. I am totally comfortable walking the streets at night. If you see groups of Spanish youth they are respectful and poilte unlike the UK. 
2. The friendliness of the people. Today i went into the farmacia to get a prescription developed for my dog. About 4 people were in the queue before me and everyone said "hola". Last night when I left a restaurant everyone in the restaurant said goodnight.
3. Obviously the weather. Today in early feb, myself and my partner walked along the beach, the sun was gloriouus and we then enjoyed lunch overlooking the sea... every time i do this it makes me realise how lucky i am

UK beats spain on...

1. ermmmmmmm
2. ooohhh let me think....
3. oh yeah.. you can get suasage and egg mcmuffics and hask browns in macdonalds...


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## Caz.I (Mar 21, 2009)

Best in Spain
1. Children generally more welcome in public places in Spain. ( first noticed that as a child on holiday in Majorca many years ago when I was fussed over everywhere I went.)
2. More of a community spirit, generally speaking, people more willing to come to your aid when there is a problem.
3. Less threatening atmosphere generally.

Best in UK
1. Easier for individual to fight against injustices like unfair dismissal, age, race and gender discrimination, etc due to greater access to legal aid (though for how long?), faster legal process(?), more equality legislation and greater support/awareness of society’s injustices – homelessness, animal cruelty, poverty etc.. (Though not always applied fairly, as someone pointed out on another thread.)
2. Shopping.
3. Central heating!


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Spain

1. Climate
2. less menacing (it feels safer)
3. views, scenery, space

UK

1. Roads
2. driving
3. warm houses

Jo xxx


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## MaidenScotland (Jun 6, 2009)

Donna do writers not pay people to do research for them?


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## Caz.I (Mar 21, 2009)

MaidenScotland said:


> Donna do writers not pay people to do research for them?


Glad to see you are okay and back in forumland, Maiden.


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## Caz.I (Mar 21, 2009)

Or should I say back on form! You're right, we are doing her work for her! lol


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## Donna773 (Dec 12, 2010)

MaidenScotland said:


> Donna do writers not pay people to do research for them?


I really do wish I could pay but the article is for my blog, which earns me precisely nothing apart from the pleasure of knowing people are reading it. In any case, I am not asking anyone to do research for me - just to express their thoughts on the pros and cons of life in Spain.


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## Sonrisa (Sep 2, 2010)

It is difficult to say, because aside from the weather and the language I think our two countries are remarkably similar in terms of culture, infrastructures, services and principles. 

There is good and bad everywhere and it really depends on each individual. I have a friend in Cairo that lived in Madrid for a couple of years before moving to Cairo and she hated Madrid but loves Cairo! 

I would say food is much better in the UK than in Spain, not that I am into british cuisine, but it is the variaty of cuisines that I find so appealing. I'd go as far as to say that London is the real world's gastronomic capital. You can find anything and everything there. 

Also the employment situation and financially, Uk is in a much better position, so for someone looking for a job and having to choose between the two, is no brainer really. 

I find public transport and health care to be superior in Spain. 

TV sucks in Spain. Really, we have it bad. Its all publicity and cheap talk shows. I much prefer british channels.

I find both british drivers and spanish drivers to be very good. Sure, brits tend to stick more to the rules, but compared to other places, spanish drivers are also very good and corteous. 

Dog poo is everywhere.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

.............. actually I forgot to mention Spanish public transport as a plus for Spain - clean, cheap, efficient, friendly staff, always on time and modern!

Jo xxx


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## thrax (Nov 13, 2008)

Jojo and I disagree about the roads here although we live on different sides of Malaga. We find the roads and driving here unbelievably easy (apart from roundabouts which the Spanish just haven't figured out). I can't do a 1.23 because there are so many differences and similarities. I totally agree with an earlier post that food in restaurants in UK is far superior to here but entirely because of the diversity, quality and consistency. The quality of fruits here is wonderful and of course the weather (at the moment at least) is beautiful. Today we thought that if we had summers like today in Britain for just a week we would have thought we'd been given one of the best in living memory (etc etc etc). But for us the real difference is a cultural difference in the way the Spanish care for their families and extended families still meet up which has all but disappeared in UK. I know that this is not just something that happens in Spain; Italy and other northern European states all have the same cultural outlooks but somehow UK has just lost it. A shame. And so far, apart from some exceptionally rude locals who hate foreigners, the Spanish have been wonderfully friendly and helpful to us. And the weather is going to get better and better because we just bought a huge supply of logs.


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## Donna773 (Dec 12, 2010)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Donna, do a search'cos it's been discussed before - smth like what do you like about Spain? Or love and hate, or stuff like that.
> 
> I seem to remember creative parking, roundabout behaviour and use/ disuse of indicators featuring on the lists.


Thanks Pesky, I've found a couple of old threads with a lot of interesting comments, some of which I would like to incorporate into my article along with those on this thread. If anyone has any objections to being quoted under their ExpatForum username, please let me know and I'll make sure they are not mentioned. The article will only appear on my Grumpy Old Gran blog, probably in the next couple of days. I will give the forum plenty of notice if it is to be published elsewhere in the future.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Donna773 said:


> Thanks Pesky, I've found a couple of old threads with a lot of interesting comments, some of which I would like to incorporate into my article along with those on this thread. If anyone has any objections to being quoted under their ExpatForum username, please let me know and I'll make sure they are not mentioned. The article will only appear on my Grumpy Old Gran blog, probably in the next couple of days. I will give the forum plenty of notice if it is to be published elsewhere in the future.


I have to say I love your blog!

but........perhaps it might be better not to quote anyone's username unless they expressly *give* you permission, rather than the other way round - not everyone checks every thread every day & might not see your post

also, some posters on the old threads might simply not be around anymore........


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

thrax said:


> Jojo and I disagree about the roads here although we live on different sides of Malaga.


Are the roads where you are really that different from ours?? For example, the A7 going passed Fuengirola! I hate the way you really have to stay in the outside lane as every few yards/metres there is a slip road that enters onto the road with very little warning for either the A7 or the road entering it. I also find the road markings are very feint (pale roads and dust I guess), no cats eyes. There are bill boards everywhere, the direction signs are hard to find amongst them. As for the smaller roads, there are those dreadful speed bumps and bars everywhere, zebra crossings straight before or after a roundabout and the kerbs are mostly gutters that if you get too close to will ruin your day!!! - and all that is before you add the Spanish drivers lol!!!!!

Jo xxxx


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## jimenato (Nov 21, 2009)

jojo said:


> Are the roads where you are really that different from ours?? For example, the A7 going passed Fuengirola! I hate the way you really have to stay in the outside lane as every few yards/metres there is a slip road that enters onto the road with very little warning for either the A7 or the road entering it. I also find the road markings are very feint (pale roads and dust I guess), no cats eyes. There are bill boards everywhere, the direction signs are hard to find amongst them. As for the smaller roads, there are those dreadful speed bumps and bars everywhere, zebra crossings straight before or after a roundabout and the kerbs are mostly gutters that if you get too close to will ruin your day!!! - and all that is before you add the Spanish drivers lol!!!!!
> 
> Jo xxxx


Zebra crossings OMG!!

I really hope that Spanish drivers when going to Britain are informed that on Zebra crossings in Britain pedestrians have an absolute right of way!!!


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## Donna773 (Dec 12, 2010)

xabiachica said:


> I have to say I love your blog!
> 
> but........perhaps it might be better not to quote anyone's username unless they expressly *give* you permission, rather than the other way round - not everyone checks every thread every day & might not see your post
> 
> also, some posters on the old threads might simply not be around anymore........


Yes, you are right, Xabiachica. I'll keep the comments anonymous, although I would like to acknowledge ExpatForum as the platform which provided them. Would that be a problem with anyone? Many thanks for the compliment about my blog, by the way - I just wish I knew how to design it better. Alcalaina's is brilliant!:clap2:


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Donna773 said:


> Yes, you are right, Xabiachica. I'll keep the comments anonymous, although I would like to acknowledge ExpatForum as the platform which provided them. Would that be a problem with anyone? Many thanks for the compliment about my blog, by the way - I just wish I knew how to design it better. Alcalaina's is brilliant!:clap2:


Thank you. All done with free Google Blogger templates, not difficult (the Help files are excellent).


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Donna773 said:


> Yes, you are right, Xabiachica. I'll keep the comments anonymous, although I would like to acknowledge ExpatForum as the platform which provided them. Would that be a problem with anyone? Many thanks for the compliment about my blog, by the way - I just wish I knew how to design it better. Alcalaina's is brilliant!:clap2:


you carry on acknowledging the forum all you want - you could even put a link

why not PM any individual posters you particularly would like to quote?


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## thrax (Nov 13, 2008)

jojo said:


> Are the roads where you are really that different from ours?? For example, the A7 going passed Fuengirola! I hate the way you really have to stay in the outside lane as every few yards/metres there is a slip road that enters onto the road with very little warning for either the A7 or the road entering it. I also find the road markings are very feint (pale roads and dust I guess), no cats eyes. There are bill boards everywhere, the direction signs are hard to find amongst them. As for the smaller roads, there are those dreadful speed bumps and bars everywhere, zebra crossings straight before or after a roundabout and the kerbs are mostly gutters that if you get too close to will ruin your day!!! - and all that is before you add the Spanish drivers lol!!!!!
> 
> Jo xxxx


Once you've got the hang of the slip roads they seem ok to me and now we've figured out how the Spanish use roundabouts we're fine with them too. Road markings here are all pretty new so no probs there either and the newish motorway we use all the time and not many others do.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

jimenato said:


> Zebra crossings OMG!!
> 
> I really hope that Spanish drivers when going to Britain are informed that on Zebra crossings in Britain pedestrians have an absolute right of way!!!


Yes but in the UK you have to have at least one foot on the crossing to claim right of way (not that you always get it), but here, you only have to stand at the kerb or walk towards the crossing and traffic stops. Perhaps we are lucky in having more patient drivers here in Jaén province, the roads are certainly quieter and the drivers generally well-behaved.


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## thrax (Nov 13, 2008)

Most drivers stop at crossing here in Nerja as do we. It seems to be expected by pedestrians since most of them don't even bother to look to see if you are going to stop - they just go for it and look in the opposite direction.


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## Sonrisa (Sep 2, 2010)

baldilocks said:


> Yes but in the UK you have to have at least one foot on the crossing to claim right of way (not that you always get it), but here, you only have to stand at the kerb or walk towards the crossing and traffic stops. Perhaps we are lucky in having more patient drivers here in Jaén province, the roads are certainly quieter and the drivers generally well-behaved.


I agree. After so many years in the Middle East where Zebra crossings are always - always!- ignored, it is a nice change when I go back home and every one gives me priority as a pedestrian and the traffic stops by the zebra crossings. 

In the UK you get the priority ONLY when you have started to cross . In Spain you get priority once you stand by the crossing without having necesarily put your foot on the road. 

But it is also true that in Spain there are many zebra crossings inmediately after roundabouts, which is dangerous as drivers often miss them unless they know they are there.


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## Calas felices (Nov 29, 2007)

*1,2,3's*

Spain:Cons
1. Weather between September and November and February and July
2. Pharmacies - they will sell you anything even stuff on prescription in the UK.
3. Cheap housing
Againsts:
1. Racism against people who aren't Spanish (foreigners rarely get invited to anything that is family)
2.. Hidden taxes (Notaries, inheritance, wealth, etc)
3. Bureacracy
England:
1. Weather between July and September, and November to February (in the South that is).
2. Any sort of health care that requires home visits or care of the elderly
3. Choice of quality food
4. Availability of decent wines other than Spanish
5. Scenery/trees
6. Decent drinking water (no need for bottled or filters)
7. Utility Companies choice of - no rip off telefonica, or Iberdrola
8. Broadband speeds
9. Television


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Calas felices said:


> Spain:Cons
> 1. Weather between September and November and February and July
> 2. Pharmacies - they will sell you anything even stuff on prescription in the UK.
> 3. Cheap housing
> ...


Not sure where your _calas felices_ are but they don't sound very happy to me! Are there no trees or scenery there? Can you really not drink the water? 

As for the accusation that Spanish are racist just because nobody's invited you to their family do, that's just daft.


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## Calas felices (Nov 29, 2007)

*Pro's and con's*

I didn't know it was a contest rather than someone asking people's views and surely everyone is entitled to one whether you agree or not.

Lets' examine your reponse baldilocks:

So the Spanish invited themselves round to your house! - but have you ever been invited to a christening, been invited to take part in one of the many fiestas as a participant of one of the Spanish clans. 
Hidden taxes are better than the French - I thought this was a discussion involving Spain and the UK.
You get an option of a bill with or without IVA - so quite happy not to pay the due taxes then?
Please don't bring up the old chestnut of Council tax - you pay nothing because you get nothing. In my area you pay the water company to have the rubbish removed!
Bureaucracy is a problem but not if you know how to get round it ? Really??
Elderly care is appalling but maybe you have no experience of it and how much do you pay for your home visit?
Quality food - fruit sold in the supermarkets that's going off , flour with weevils in it - shall I go on?
Decent water - maybe in your area. Decent scenery if you like scrubland and name me two other native trees in Spain other than olive and fir which are in abundance.
I have 50m broadband in the UK by the way and for much less than you have to pay in Spain.
Why should you have to purchase a 3m satellite dish to get UK TV - the Spanish get Spanish television for free?
I didn't think this was meant to be an 'I live in Spain and so everything's wonderful' sort of posting.
How cold was the winter this year in your area?


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Calas felices said:


> I didn't know it was a contest rather than someone asking people's views and surely everyone is entitled to one whether you agree or not.
> 
> Lets' examine your reponse baldilocks:
> 
> ...


Hey, you were the one criticising Spain versus UK. Yes we do get invited to Spanish family events and fiestas but you might at least do so with some accuracy.
Our winter was much better than last winter and a lot warmer that UK.
You obviously live in the wrong part of Spain, that is if you actually live in Spain.

Fruit and veg and other groceries in shops and supermarkets here are always very fresh, that's when we actually need to buy any. More often than not we get fruit and veg brought to our door by our Spanish neighbours who have huertas and in return we give them home made jam, cakes, etc.

Council tax here pays for water and a daily (even on Sundays and Christmas Day) refuse collection as well as road repairs, etc. etc. In UK, many councils are implementing fortnightly refuse collections which will keep the foxes, rats and feral cats from starving.

Home visits are free. But then people here don't abuse the practice.

Trees - there are three types of oak tree to start with, elms, junipers, abies, etc.

I don't have a 3m dish to get satellite TV, just a normal 60cm one.

No it's not a contest but about FACTS not fictions to try to stir up a story!


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

I remember Calas felices moaning about the _*wine*_ in Spain before , (it's a true story folks!!) and now trees! That's a new one I must admit. 
The range of your complaints quite frankly astounds me. You seem to be so deeply unhappy with Spain from reading this and other posts of yours. Why don't you try other countries like Greece, or Italy, Poland or Latvia ?? Or maybe the question should be why do you keep coming back to Spain?


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Pesky Wesky said:


> I remember Calas felices moaning about the _*wine*_ in Spain before , (it's a true story folks!!) and now trees! That's a new one I must admit.
> The range of your complaints quite frankly astounds me. You seem to be so deeply unhappy with Spain from reading this and other posts of yours. Why don't you try other countries like Greece, or Italy, Poland or Latvia ?? Or maybe the question should be why do you keep coming back to Spain?


Maybe he is just another of those poxy journalists trying to drum up a story out of nothing. Like the one who put out the story that 75% of British expats were packing up and going back to UK


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## Donna773 (Dec 12, 2010)

baldilocks said:


> Maybe he is just another of those poxy journalists trying to drum up a story out of nothing. Like the one who put out the story that 75% of British expats were packing up and going back to UK


Now now, Baldilocks - I'm a journalist and we are not all 'poxy' as you put it. Maybe the story should have said ''75 British expats'' not 75% because I reckon Spain is a better place to live on almost every front. For those not needing fulltime jobs, at least.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Donna773 said:


> I'm a journalist and we are not all 'poxy'


pppssssstttt my exhusband was a journalist and he was  

Jo xxx


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## MaidenScotland (Jun 6, 2009)

Sonrisa said:


> I agree. After so many years in the Middle East where Zebra crossings are always - always!- ignored, it is a nice change when I go back home and every one gives me priority as a pedestrian and the traffic stops by the zebra crossings.
> 
> In the UK you get the priority ONLY when you have started to cross . In Spain you get priority once you stand by the crossing without having necesarily put your foot on the road.
> 
> But it is also true that in Spain there are many zebra crossings inmediately after roundabouts, which is dangerous as drivers often miss them unless they know they are there.




I have never seen a zebra crossing in Egypt lol


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## Calas felices (Nov 29, 2007)

*1,2,3's*

It seems reasonable to remind posters of the original posting:
Basically _I'm looking for a 1,2,3 of the best things and a 1,2,3 of where Britain is superior. UK based members can take part in the survey too, as long as they are regular visitors to Spain or its territories _ 
Buy the way I didn't moan about the wine - merely said Britain was superior because there's more choice. In the same way that I believe the scenery is more attractive than in Spain which has desert areas. Try not to be so sensitive!


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Calas felices said:


> It seems reasonable to remind posters of the original posting:
> Basically _I'm looking for a 1,2,3 of the best things and a 1,2,3 of where Britain is superior. UK based members can take part in the survey too, as long as they are regular visitors to Spain or its territories _
> Buy the way I didn't moan about the wine - merely said Britain was superior because there's more choice. In the same way that I believe the scenery is more attractive than in Spain which has desert areas. Try not to be so sensitive!


Well actually you did on the _*expat whinge of the year *_thread


> What don't I like about Spain and this is not a whinge - they are observations. I hate the dust, I hate the fact that everything is untidy and unfinished and at times dirty. I hate the fact that dog poo is allowed to be everywhere. I find Spanish television similar to the UK about 30 years ago (very amateurish), I yearn for decent theatres, cinemas, shows etc, I yearn for decent wine (and yes I know there are some Riojas that are half decent but mostly the wine is poor quality)


And that was just the beginning of the post!
I don't mean to be sensitive, but there are some things that are just wrong. It's been said before and I'll say it again, Spain is a huge country and if you don't know SPAIN then you can't talk about SPAIN. You can talk about your part of Spain, and to tell you the truth your part of Spain doesn't sound that attractive. I hope you looked at the suggestions that were given you before and found some decent wine at least. There are theatres and cinemas all over the country. If you're looking for trees, well southern Spain might not be the best place, but from about Cuidad Real up you should be getting some trees in view. Here's a link to _*Trees - Living Legends*_ a guide to the biggest, oldest trees in Spain.
Documentación - Leyendas vivas: los árboles más increibles - Obra Social Caja Madrid
Hope you like it! 
PS I have said plenty before about things that are not so good in Spain. It's not that I don't think there are any negative points to the country.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

The whole basis of the thread is imo quite silly, if I may say so.
Good and bad things about Spain....the first point that springs to mind is 'so what'? Surely there are more solid and important things to blog about.
There are good and bad aspects to life in any country.
I could provide a list of the good and bad things of the countries I've lived in....but frankly, who gives a damn?
Because.......people's judgments of what is 'good' and what is 'bad' are purely subjective.
To me, wherever you live in the world is just that....a place you live, where you eat , sleep, shop, do all the personal things. The place you live in is the backdrop, the stage setting for your daily life.
For many people life in Spain is a 'dream' where it is imagined you can 'integrate' into the Spanish way of life. I see this as an unrealistic view to have of any country. I get on well with my neighbours, we are on visiting terms, have been introduced to family members but I am not so deluded as to imagine I am 'integrated'. I am to them a friendly, interesting foreigner, as are they to me.
I do enjoy my life in Spain, immensely. Yes, there are a few irritating things but then I was never so daft as to imagine that when I crossed the Spanish border I was entering Paradise.
I have never and never will participate in a list of 'likes and dislikes' about Spain, Germany, Czech Republic, Poland, Canada or any other country I have spent a lot of time in.
Why? Because such a list would be nothing more than my personal, subjective view, a view which would be influenced by my personality, experience of other countries, financial situation, political views and many other things.
And why should I assume anyone other than my partner, friends and dog should be interested in what I think about Spanish wine and trees?.
And, just having reread PW's sensible post: Spain is not a single unity, it is a federation of very different regions that were once autonomous statelets or kingdoms. It is silly to compare life in Barcelona to that in Benidorm. Even where I live there are huge variations within a few kilometres. Languages, diet, landscape, many other things differ hugely from region to region.
So how can you make a cake out of all the different ingredients, to coin a clumsy metaphor? What you have is a stew (another clumsy metaphor).
One point on 'superior' daily refuse collection: it's done vbecause it it weren't the place would stink. If the UK experienced temperatures of 40C+ you can bet your life our refuse collection would be on a daily basis!


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

mrypg9 said:


> The whole basis of the thread is imo quite silly, if I may say so.
> Good and bad things about Spain....the first point that springs to mind is 'so what'? Surely there are more solid and important things to blog about.
> There are good and bad aspects to life in any country.
> I could provide a list of the good and bad things of the countries I've lived in....but frankly, who gives a damn?
> ...


 I know you don't like it 'cos you prefer a bit of a debate, but I agree


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Donna773 said:


> Now now, Baldilocks - I'm a journalist and we are not all 'poxy' as you put it. Maybe the story should have said ''75 British expats'' not 75% because I reckon Spain is a better place to live on almost every front. For those not needing fulltime jobs, at least.


Read the quote - I didn't say ALL journalists were poxy - just the ones who distort the facts or only present those that suit them to be able to invent a story to sell! The original story to which I referred was actually "75% of British Expats..." what I didn't say was that the interview sample was just 240 people and the story then said that "75% of those who responded" but the actual numbers weren't given - it may well have been only four people who took the time to respond but then again we weren't actually advised of the actual question they were asked.


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## jimenato (Nov 21, 2009)

baldilocks said:


> Yes but in the UK you have to have at least one foot on the crossing to claim right of way (not that you always get it), but here, you only have to stand at the kerb or walk towards the crossing and traffic stops. Perhaps we are lucky in having more patient drivers here in Jaén province, the roads are certainly quieter and the drivers generally well-behaved.


Very different around here!! People seem to use the pavement near a crossing as a meeting point - often watching the traffic go by. If you stopped for everyone who looked like they were going to cross you wouldn't get far. I've also many times seen a group of people waiting to cross for minutes while the traffic flashes past - you don't see that in the UK. It seems my experience of crossings is diametrically opposed to yours.

Also, here you often see crossings on a dual carriageway - very dangerous. I don't recall seeing that anywhere in the UK unless they were light controlled.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Pesky Wesky said:


> I know you don't like it 'cos you prefer a bit of a debate, but I agree


Me too. But the Grumpy Old Gran needs stuff for her blog and she has plenty to choose from here.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

baldilocks said:


> Read the quote - I didn't say ALL journalists were poxy - just the ones who distort the facts or only present those that suit them to be able to invent a story to sell! The original story to which I referred was actually "75% of British Expats..." what I didn't say was that the interview sample was just 240 people and the story then said that "75% of those who responded" but the actual numbers weren't given - it may well have been only four people who took the time to respond but then again we weren't actually advised of the actual question they were asked.


"There are lies, damned lies, and statistics" - an observation generally accredited to Disraeli. So true; journalists will dig up any old rubbish data in order to prove a point, and quoting percentages gives it a spurious air of validity.


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## Steve Homer (Feb 8, 2011)

*Spain:*
Weather
Cost of living
Roads - they are empty by comparison

*UK:*
Some quality products
Common sense when it comes to public transport
Can't think of a third....!!


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Alcalaina said:


> Me too. But the Grumpy Old Gran needs stuff for her blog and she has plenty to choose from here.


Tried doing a blog once - it was awful - the pictures wouldn't stay where I put them so I now just do a fairly frequent newsletter (Bulletin from Castillo de Locubín) as Claire and one or two others on here, know.


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## Donna773 (Dec 12, 2010)

mrypg9 said:


> The whole basis of the thread is imo quite silly, if I may say so.
> Good and bad things about Spain....the first point that springs to mind is 'so what'? Surely there are more solid and important things to blog about.
> There are good and bad aspects to life in any country.
> I could provide a list of the good and bad things of the countries I've lived in....but frankly, who gives a damn?
> ...


Whilst I agree with much of what mrypg9 says, why should subjective views not be of interest? Life revolves around opinion and the world would be an incredibly boring place if everyone felt exactly the same way. As far as there being ''more solid and important things to blog about'', of course there are. But what those ''more solid and important things'' are is also subjective. That's why I write about diverse topics. However, since I spend most of my time in Guardamar, it's only natural that some of my articles are about life in Spain.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Donna773 said:


> Whilst I agree with much of what mrypg9 says, why should subjective views not be of interest? Life revolves around opinion and the world would be an incredibly boring place if everyone felt exactly the same way. As far as there being ''more solid and important things to blog about'', of course there are. But what those ''more solid and important things'' are is also subjective. That's why I write about diverse topics. However, since I spend most of my time in Guardamar, it's only natural that some of my articles are about life in Spain.


Fair point. Everything -well, most things - written here are subjective.
But honestly, most responses here, including mine, are boring to the point of being soporific.
What do we like: wine, sunshine, food, relaxed life...quelle surprise!
And our dislikes: bureaucracy, road traffic, rogue landlords...again, quelle surprise.


Now....if I were still living in Prague I could give you enough material to write a book. But we're in Spain which so far as my daily routine goes is much as it was wherever else I've lived. 
It's nice to be able to have lunch al fresco and walk my dog in daylight at 6p.m. in February whilst those poor sods in the UK are wet and shivering, though.
I think it's called Schadenfreude


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## nigele2 (Dec 25, 2009)

mrypg9 said:


> ...... whilst those poor sods in the UK are wet and shivering, though.


Mary in Hampshire just come back from a walk in the country just east of watership down. Clear sky apart from a few clouds on the western horizon that gave a beautiful sunset. Saw a barn owl (at 10 meters), a red kite, a kestrel and the normal array of others. Said hello to the ladies and their 6 setters, and the man with the spaniel, and jake the black lab in the Swan. A pint of Palmers. A perfect day. Yes it rains occasionally but don't want you to feel sorry for us or think you will need survival kit when you come in April


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

nigele2 said:


> Mary in Hampshire just come back from a walk in the country just east of watership down. Clear sky apart from a few clouds on the western horizon that gave a beautiful sunset. Saw a barn owl (at 10 meters), a red kite, a kestrel and the normal array of others. Said hello to the ladies and their 6 setters, and the man with the spaniel, and jake the black lab in the Swan. A pint of Palmers. A perfect day. Yes it rains occasionally but don't want you to feel sorry for us or think you will need survival kit when you come in April




I was joking...well, sort of. We've had a similar day. Gorgeous warm sunshine. Morning at the kennels, lunch in a venta..great three-course meal with beer or wine for 8 euros - then a walk by the river with Our Little Azor.
Only thing missing to make it perfect: an interesting football match (apologies to ROI and Wales).
But tomorrow.....
Actually I'll be in Birmingham for a conference on Saturday 26th of this month. 
I'd love to meet up with you some time, Nigel...I owe you a couple of pints...


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## nigele2 (Dec 25, 2009)

mrypg9 said:


> I was joking...well, sort of. We've had a similar day. Gorgeous warm sunshine. Morning at the kennels, lunch in a venta..great three-course meal with beer or wine for 8 euros - then a walk by the river with Our Little Azor.
> Only thing missing to make it perfect: an interesting football match (apologies to ROI and Wales).
> But tomorrow.....
> Actually I'll be in Birmingham for a conference on Saturday 26th of this month.
> I'd love to meet up with you some time, Nigel...I owe you a couple of pints...


Birmingham, home of the Balti. And some interesting ale. I'm working on it


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## Donna773 (Dec 12, 2010)

Well, I've just about made it through the plethora of comments and criticism on this thread and have managed to produce a blog article of sorts about the respective merits of living in the UK and Spain. Unfortunately it really say little apart from emphasising that if you don't have a job lined up (or for us oldies a decent pension income), you'll struggle to make it in Spain. Anyway, many thanks to everyone who has posted - I just wish the end-product was more interesting. Mind you, I did manage to inject a fair bit of humour into it. Whilst no ExpatForum member is named and only one person quoted, if anyone feels the content is misrepresentative, valid criticism is always welcome. However, I reserve the right to moderate the expression ''poxy journalist'' as a blog comment.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Donna773 said:


> Well, I've just about made it through the plethora of comments and criticism on this thread and have managed to produce a blog article of sorts about the respective merits of living in the UK and Spain. Unfortunately it really say little apart from emphasising that if you don't have a job lined up (or for us oldies a decent pension income), you'll struggle to make it in Spain. Anyway, many thanks to everyone who has posted - I just wish the end-product was more interesting. Mind you, I did manage to inject a fair bit of humour into it. Whilst no ExpatForum member is named and only one person quoted, if anyone feels the content is misrepresentative, valid criticism is always welcome. However, I reserve the right to moderate the expression ''poxy journalist'' as a blog comment.


As I said before, not all journalists are poxy, only those who try to *invent* news rather than report it!


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## Jubbly52 (Feb 10, 2011)

hiya...ok..SPAIN..
1/ The Weather is better
2/ The food you buy is fresh
3/The people are nicer
4/..could lists loads of things.....
ok now for UK
1/..KFC
2/..COD N CHIPS
3/......ERR....THATS IT IM AFRAID.


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## nigele2 (Dec 25, 2009)

Jubbly52 said:


> hiya...ok..SPAIN..
> 1/ The Weather is better
> 2/ The food you buy is fresh
> 3/The people are nicer
> ...


Jubbly it would be great to know where abouts in the UK you come from?

I just want to avoid ever going there if saturated fats are all that is on offer


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Interesting that since I suggested he might be one of those journalists who post controversy on here to see what reaction they get and use that as evidence for an invented story, he hasn't said any more


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## Donna773 (Dec 12, 2010)

baldilocks said:


> Interesting that since I suggested he might be one of those journalists who post controversy on here to see what reaction they get and use that as evidence for an invented story, he hasn't said any more


Baldilocks, I assume your last two postings on this thread were aimed at me, though I'd have thought it pretty obvious that Donna is not a male name. I deliberately ignored yesterday's comment because I wasn't sure what you were implying. If you are planning to have a 'dig a day', forget it. I'm too old in the tooth to take your antagonism seriously. All I can say is that you really do need to see a doctor about your chronic hack-ache (or is it journo-pox?). 

One final thought: Is invention better than cure?


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Donna773 said:


> Baldilocks, I assume your last two postings on this thread were aimed at me, though I'd have thought it pretty obvious that Donna is not a male name. I deliberately ignored yesterday's comment because I wasn't sure what you were implying. If you are planning to have a 'dig a day', forget it. I'm too old in the tooth to take your antagonism seriously. All I can say is that you really do need to see a doctor about your chronic hack-ache (or is it journo-pox?).
> 
> One final thought: Is invention better than cure?


I don't think they were aimed at you.............think happy coves


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## gus-lopez (Jan 4, 2010)

Donna773 said:


> Baldilocks, I assume your last two postings on this thread were aimed at me, though I'd have thought it pretty obvious that Donna is not a male name. I deliberately ignored yesterday's comment because I wasn't sure what you were implying. If you are planning to have a 'dig a day', forget it. I'm too old in the tooth to take your antagonism seriously. All I can say is that you really do need to see a doctor about your chronic hack-ache (or is it journo-pox?).
> 
> One final thought: Is invention better than cure?


No it's CF that Baldilocks is commenting about.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Donna
I was not referring to you but to Calas whoever he is. His posts sounded like one of *those* journalists who *invent *stories rather than reporting the facts. 

You know very well the types I mean so stop being over-sensitive "unless the shoe fits"... and I have never suggested, in your case, that it does. 

There have been on other threads and in other fora, occasions when journalists have thrown a bit of controversy into the ring to see what comes out of the woodwork, then use that to write a story about Expats. 

There was also the now infamous one of "75%of Brit Expats in Spain are going home" which was started off by a finance firm who actually "surveyed" 250 Brits in Spain and then used that as facts relating to a million or so on the basis of "75%of those who responded" without saying how many they'd asked, how many responded or what the question was. 

This was then picked up by a well known high circulation broadsheet in UK and published as fact. The finance firm were trying to promote a product of theirs which, I think, was intended to ease the problems of those Expats who were rather feeling the pinch but was, as usual, intended to be more beneficial to the firm than to the customers.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Thank you Xabia and Gus for you support. If the hernia gets too bad and you need it back, just let me know!


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## Donna773 (Dec 12, 2010)

baldilocks said:


> Donna
> I was not referring to you but to Calas whoever he is. His posts sounded like one of *those* journalists who *invent *stories rather than reporting the facts.
> 
> You know very well the types I mean so stop being over-sensitive "unless the shoe fits"... and I have never suggested, in your case, that it does.
> ...


My humble apologies, baldilocks. And there's me assuming I was the target! Just as well I've got a good sense of humour - I hope you have too. I've now turned my blog attentions to Thumpy Old Gran (not me - my name for the granny who laid into those jewel thieves in Northampton with her handbag). I've suggested that that oh so convenient video of the whole thing might be too good to be true - but that's another story. Ah well, hack to normal...


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

I consider the UK media *as a whole* responsible for many of the ills currently prevalent in our society, including the general dumbing-down of taste and standards.
There are honourable exceptions but overall they stand indicted.
As evidence I offer: The Daily Mail, The Sun, Channel 5, most of ITV, most Sky channels....
Anyone watching/reading from another planet must think we are a nation of semi-literate, uncultured morons with a prediliction for crudity, violence and exhibitionism.


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## nigele2 (Dec 25, 2009)

mrypg9 said:


> ..............................
> Anyone watching/reading from another planet must think we are a nation of semi-literate, uncultured morons with a prediliction for crudity, violence and exhibitionism.


Your point being ????? :focus:


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

nigele2 said:


> Your point being ????? :focus:


That I (kind of ) agree with the views expressed by baldilocks although I would have expressed them differently.
Which I just did.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Imagine if there were a Spanish equivalent to the Daily Wail. What headlines could they use to scare the mierda out of people? I´m afraid I can´t do the puns, but I´m sure Donna can come up with some!

Food colouring in chorizo linked to Alzheimers
Bullfighting main cause of death amongst matadors
Kissing spreads respiratory diseases
Sunshine causes cancer
etc etc

They would have a field day!


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Alcalaina said:


> Imagine if there were a Spanish equivalent to the Daily Wail. What headlines could they use to scare the mierda out of people? I´m afraid I can´t do the puns, but I´m sure Donna can come up with some!
> 
> Food colouring in chorizo linked to Alzheimers
> Bullfighting main cause of death amongst matadors
> ...


The Maul seems to have an obsession with the middle classes, 'political correctness', the evil habits of Johnny foreigner, especially where animals are concerned and, for a reason totally beyond me, lesbians.
So how about:

'Lesbian bullfighter threatens to sue sports commentator who said on air she had no balls'?


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Alcalaina said:


> Imagine if there were a Spanish equivalent to the Daily Wail. What headlines could they use to scare the mierda out of people? I´m afraid I can´t do the puns, but I´m sure Donna can come up with some!
> 
> Food colouring in chorizo linked to Alzheimers
> Bullfighting main cause of death amongst matadors
> ...


The Maul seems to have an obsession with the middle classes, 'political correctness', the evil habits of Johnny foreigner, especially where animals are concerned and, for a reason totally beyond me, lesbians.
So how about:

' Spanish Lesbian bullfighter threatens to sue middle-class British sports commentator who said on air she had no balls'?


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

mrypg9 said:


> The Maul seems to have an obsession with the middle classes, 'political correctness', the evil habits of Johnny foreigner, especially where animals are concerned and, for a reason totally beyond me, lesbians.
> So how about:
> 
> ' Spanish Lesbian bullfighter threatens to sue middle-class British sports commentator who said on air she had no balls'?


Following Mary's lead...

_Bullfighter ballses it up in Badajoz

Benito the Bullfighter was made to eat his own balls in the Badajoz bullring last night by Butch Brenda, thought to be the local lesbian_


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

In a similar vein the most recent posts in this thread:

A tourist went to a restaurant after the bullfight, although he hadn't actually attended, and was offered the speciality of the day: "*******"

When enquiring as to what the dish, was he was told that it was the testicles of the loser. They were absolutely delicious.

He goes to the same restaurant the next day and again has *******, every bit as delicious as the day before.

On the third day he once more orders ******* and is rather dismayed to find that they are a mere fraction of the size of those of the previous days. On enquiring why, he is informed "Señor, it is not always the bull that loses!"


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## Jubbly52 (Feb 10, 2011)

nigele2 said:


> Jubbly it would be great to know where abouts in the UK you come from?
> 
> I just want to avoid ever going there if saturated fats are all that is on offer


...Ahhh bless you....you must enjoy life you know!!!...we come from Herne Bay,Kent....the only deal you got there was Tuesday evenings at the local for a steak meal and a pint for £5:99p..( cheaper here !!!!)
i hope you are not one of those people that live there life by eating non-fat this n that....we were brought up on egg n bacon for breakfast...bread n dripping...real butter....etc... and i am 64 and healthy...do you smoke and drink booze by the way???


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## Jubbly52 (Feb 10, 2011)

Caz.I said:


> Best in Spain
> 1. Children generally more welcome in public places in Spain. ( first noticed that as a child on holiday in Majorca many years ago when I was fussed over everywhere I went.)
> 2. More of a community spirit, generally speaking, people more willing to come to your aid when there is a problem.
> 3. Less threatening atmosphere generally.
> ...


...do you not have central heating in your house then????..


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Jubbly52 said:


> ...do you not have central heating in your house then????..


I hardly know anyone with central heating.........



except us...........


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

xabiachica said:


> I hardly know anyone with central heating.........
> 
> 
> 
> except us...........


The house opposite us has central heating, but they find it very expensive and a nuisance cos they can only use the small gas bottles which need changing every few days! 

Jo xxx


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## Caz.I (Mar 21, 2009)

xabiachica said:


> I hardly know anyone with central heating.........
> 
> 
> 
> except us...........


Okay, just rub it in! 

I have air conditioning which I only use in the most extreme circumstances since it makes me cough and makes me feel generally unwell. I also have a small oil radiator which heats the home a little but it's not the same! Although I have to say, when I go back to the UK I do sometimes feel like I am suffocating in a centrally heated house! There's just no pleasing me!


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Caz.I said:


> Okay, just rub it in!
> 
> I have air conditioning which I only use in the most extreme circumstances since it makes me cough and makes me feel generally unwell. I also have a small oil radiator which heats the home a little but it's not the same! Although I have to say, when I go back to the UK I do sometimes feel like I am suffocating in a centrally heated house! There's just no pleasing me!


we have underfloor heating, which I'm not sure I like

I find it hard to control - seems to take ages to warm up & even longer to cool down!!

I think I've sussed it - keep the thermometer set not too high - say 19º - & wear layers!!

we also have hot/cold aircon, which I'm told would be cheaper to heat with - but I too hate the dry air, it dries my skin (which at my age I can do without) and my contact lenses!!

you're right about the UK though - I visited my dad in April & September last year - it was cold - but he had the heating set to 23º which was stifling!!

he moaned about being cold for the first 2 weeks he was here - but I just couldn't bear the thought of turning the heating up - or the bills!!


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## Donna773 (Dec 12, 2010)

baldilocks said:


> In a similar vein the most recent posts in this thread:
> 
> A tourist went to a restaurant after the bullfight, although he hadn't actually attended, and was offered the speciality of the day: "*******"
> 
> ...


How toro-bull! I bet the tourist's response was really testacular...


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

xabiachica said:


> I hardly know anyone with central heating.........
> 
> 
> 
> except us...........


I know hardly anyone _*without*_ central heating here...


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Pesky Wesky said:


> I know hardly anyone _*without*_ central heating here...


yeah but it gets really cold there - & people actually live there.....

most properties around here were originally built as summer homes - & even some fairly new ones have no heating


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

xabiachica said:


> yeah but it gets really cold there - & people actually live there.....
> 
> most properties around here were originally built as summer homes - & even some fairly new ones have no heating


Yes, it does get cold. It also gets blummin' hot as well!

I wonder where the north/ south central heating divide is? It's got to be before Toledo for example.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Yes, it does get cold. It also gets blummin' hot as well!
> 
> I wonder where the north/ south central heating divide is? It's got to be before Toledo for example.


I've often pondered on that one......

we're about halfway down - it rarely gets extremely hot or cold here

saying that - it's been dropping to 1º or 0º most nights recently - that's cold enough for me, & certainly enough to need heating

what's more we only have to get in the car for maybe half an hour or so & we're in snow territory


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

xabiachica said:


> we have underfloor heating, which I'm not sure I like
> 
> I find it hard to control - seems to take ages to warm up & even longer to cool down!!
> 
> ...


This is our third winter here and we have finally cracked the heating problem.
Last year we used logs on an open fire in the day and evening plus the a/c heating gadget in the bedroom.
Now we go out shopping, rambling with the dog etc. so are out of the house until late afternoon, around 6p.m. or later.
Then we go up to the bedroom which has large screen tv (thank's to Jo's OH) and is spacious and comfortable. We heat the room with a small paraffin heater which looks quite stylish and doesn't smell as did such contraptions years ago.
We don what is known as 'lounging attire', I believe, and spend the evenings reading, watching tv, chatting, debating the meaning of life, whatever. Our Little Azor, a very clean boy, takes up his position ion the bed, further adding to the heat. 
The only difference is that we do these things horizontally instead of semi-recumbent on the salon sofas.
Our social life vis-a-vis entertaining in the home is somewhat restricted by this practice although friends are welcome to join us and perch on or even recline on our enormous Czech bed.
But we compensate by meeting friends in bars and ventas in the daytime until April or May when it's warm enough to entertain in the diningroom, the salon or al fresco.
This mode of heating costs around 30 - 40 euros a month.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

xabiachica said:


> I've often pondered on that one......
> 
> we're about halfway down - it rarely gets extremely hot or cold here
> 
> ...


Lots of woodburners down here but otherwise "central heating" means a circular heater under the table with the tablecloth over your knees.


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## Jubbly52 (Feb 10, 2011)

jojo said:


> The house opposite us has central heating, but they find it very expensive and a nuisance cos they can only use the small gas bottles which need changing every few days!
> 
> Jo xxx


and me.................


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