# Mexico - Do You Have a Plan B???



## BajaGringo

A lot is happening in the world today - recessions are like flu bugs it seems, everything playing out on a global level. Many Baby Boomers have seen a big decline in their property value and investments back home. The old standard model of planning for the future is changing and many who are caught in the middle are taking a second look at their retirement plan scenarios. That made me ponder a couple of things...

Does the current economic situation make your retirement in Mexico more or less likely? 

If you have already made the move to Mexico, does a big drop in the value of your investments change your idea on staying in Mexico?

What is your "Plan B"?


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## roni

BajaGringo said:


> Does the current economic situation make your retirement in Mexico more or less likely?
> 
> What is your "Plan B"?


At this time, it does not make it less likely. It has the potential to change the timing by a year or so. It could do this in one of two ways:

1) We could choose to stay in the States a year longer than planned and work in our current jobs. This would add to retirement savings, pensions and reduce the amount of time between early retirement and the arrival of Social Security, at which time we will have more than enough money to live and, I think, save some in Mexico

2) If the recession caused us both to lose our jobs, we could take earlier than planned for retirement, sell out and subsidize the smaller pension checks until SS started to arrive in 4 1/2 years at the age of 62 for me.

We are not dependent on investments in stocks or stock mutual funds for subsidizing the smaller pension checks. We have some such investments, but do not depend on them for our plans.


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## makaloco

BajaGringo said:


> If you have already made the move to Mexico, does a big drop in the value of your investments change your idea on staying in Mexico?
> 
> What is your "Plan B"?


This _is_ my Plan B. Plan A was to work a few years longer and try to retire in southern France or the French West Indies. For various reasons, I retired early and moved to La Paz in 2007, just before the bottom fell out. My IRA, which was marginally adequate before, lost maybe 30% of its value. But I can't imagine another location where I could live as well on what little I have. I'm in a beautiful, friendly city on the sea, with warm, sunny weather, affordable goods and services, a paid-for house and car, and worldwide medical coverage. Those are the basics ... everything else is gravy, IMO.


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## RVGRINGO

Please save space by using "Quick Reply" instead of "Reply" which causes the previous post to be quoted over and over. Thanks.


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## Traveler123

makaloco said:


> I'm in a beautiful, friendly city on the sea, with warm, sunny weather, affordable goods and services, a paid-for house and car, and worldwide medical coverage. Those are the basics ... everything else is gravy, IMO.


 I'm researching various international medical insurance and since you mentioned that you have such coverage, could you provide me with the details? I'd also like to know more about La Paz. I realize my questions are off the topic of this thread, so if you have a moment, could you send me a PM? Thanks in advance.


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## stanburn

No plan B, I have lived here full-time for almost 5 years. I have learned that money is overated, not having any simplifies your life as it eliminates a lot of decisions. I live comfortably in Mexico on my retirement and don't touch my investments. So if they dropped 35% over the past year it doesn't make any difference. When you see what the locals can live on, then it is easy to adapt. If you feel you must live like you do NOB, then your costs will be higher. Rice, beans, tortillas and fresh veggies are still pretty inexpensive.


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## RVGRINGO

Welcome, Stanburn.
It is good to have a 'voice' from Colima.


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## Traveler123

For me, the current situation in the US and worldwide as the OP asked makes me even more motivated to move SoB upon retirement in another year. Mexico has such a wonderful culture with many cities from which to choose. I'm learning more about the various options on this great board. RV ****** is a treasure! I've definitely expanded my options from San Miguel and Chapala to other areas in Mexico because of what I'm learning on this board and others. In the coming year I will be spending some time in Mexico as part of my research. Thanks to all for the helpful info!


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## BajaGringo

I hope nobody misinterprets my original post as questioning your decision to move to Mexico. I have lived here for many years, love it and on some remote Baja beach my ashes will be spread one day if I have my say in the matter. 

I am just more interested in trying to see what other folks are thinking - I am seeing this come up as a topic of discussion a lot more frequently of late...


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## RVGRINGO

Like many others who have lived in Mexico for some time, we have no plan B and are here permanently. Like BajaGringo, our ashes will become a part of Mexico's dust. There is a rather famous quotation, which I vaguely recall as saying something like, "Once the dust of Mexico has settled upon your heart, there is no other place where you will find happiness." We've found that to be very true.


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## andries

"Once the dust of Mexico has settled upon your heart, there is no other place where you will find happiness." - That's great! - I haven't heard that before and I've lived in Aguascalientes, Mexico since 1995.

Hi RVGRINGO,
I am a Canadian Artist/Painter, interested in Lake Chapala as another option of residence. My question is: Are the expats supporting their local artists; buying art and taking painting workshops?

Thanks,
Andries Veerman


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## RVGRINGO

I've found another version, but I still don't know the original source:

"Once the dust of Mexico settles on your heart, you cannot find peace in any other land."

It was about the wonder of Ajijic that 1940's travel writer and local benefactress Neill James wrote, "Once the dust of Mexico settles on your heart, you can never go home again."


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## BajaGringo

So much of that depends on the attitude you bring with you once you make the decision to settle here. If you seek to find the same life you had back home in Mexico, you will likely be greatly disappointed. If you can erase the chalkboard, so to say, and just take it in for what it is, learn and adapt you may very well fall in love with place and its people.

I know that I have. Thanks for sharing that RV...


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## BryansRose

The recession is what prompted me to make the move to Mexico. My business income was down, I had to drop my health insurance, and I saw no way it would improve any time soon.

Now that I am here, I have no regrets. I love it here. Fresh vegetables like I could never afford NOB. I'm eating better, it's costing less, and I've gotten off several of the medications I was on. 

I have enough to live on for years from the sale of my condo in the US, and I can wait for my retirement plan to regain its value. 

No Plan B. I have to agree with the quote about Mexican dust. I can't imagine being anywhere else now that I am here.


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## RVGRINGO

andries said:


> Hi RVGRINGO,
> I am a Canadian Artist/Painter, interested in Lake Chapala as another option of residence. My question is: Are the expats supporting their local artists; buying art and taking painting workshops?
> Thanks,
> Andries Veerman


Mexico itself is a work of art and Ajijic is the center of the 'artist's colony' that started there in the '50's. There are many galleries and several are expat owned. A few offer lessons, etc. The legacy of Niel James lives on with many of her child students now mature artists in and around Ajijic. One of them, Jesus Lopez Vega is a friend and an extremely popular artist locally (The Visionary Art of Jesus Lopez Vega pictures from mexico photos on webshots). I still wish I could own some of his work, but I do have several pieces by his brother, Margarito, also talented but less inspired to produce.


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## Traveler123

BryansRose said:


> No Plan B. I have to agree with the quote about Mexican dust. I can't imagine being anywhere else now that I am here.


You are very lucky to have found your Nirvana. Where are you located in Mexico? I'm researching various locations for my own retirement in Mexico and am always interested when someone has found a good fit.


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## BryansRose

Yes, I do feel lucky. I'm in San Luis Potosi. I chose this area because I don't like heat and humidity, and I don't mind chilly nights. The city itself, and the surrounding areas, were settled a few hundred years ago by the Spanish; it was a mining area. So there is a lot of wonderful old architecture. It's a large enough city to have a goodly amount of cultural events. 

The city does not have an American enclave per se. there really aren't too many foreigners here, which I prefer. There is a GM plant here and management seems to be transferred down from the states for 2-3 years at a time. Other than that, there are only a few of us permanent transplants. 

If you'd like to know more, just let me know.


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## Bob Cox

*Damn the Plans Smedley..Full Speed Ahead!*


First of all...Plan A. move to Mexico and stay there
PLAN b. MOVE TO mexico and stay there.
Looks to me like many Americans want their cake and want to eat it also.. they want to keep the house in the U.S. and have a hacienda at the same time...Nice work if you can get it!! that´s costly. Well I´ve already moved to Mexico, been here 40 years, No I´m not leaving. 
Another thing Gringos ...and I´m one also... are hung up on health insurance.. do you know what´ll happen during a catastrophe? I mean like North Korea drops an H bomb on L.A. or the boogie Woogie Flu hits and kills 30 percent of the Country?
The Insurance Companies will declare bankruptcy and move what money they have to the Cayman Islands. Then your out in the cold, there are no guarantees in life. Are you planning on coming to Mexico and getting sick? Then you might as well stay at home and let the Government overtax you and stress you out till you fall over dead. 
Is it safe to come here__ Certainly not! No place in the world is SAFE. I wish I had a dollar every time some paranoid tourist asked me that, I´d buy a hacienda.
You got to have guts to pull up stakes and move on.
I´ll be here to greet the brave ones. I hope you´re one of them.


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## BryansRose

Safe. Almost all my friends told me I would not be safe. I came from one of the most affluent counties in the US. And outside my condo buildling: 1) my car was broken into, attempted theft: and 2) an elderly woman was pushed to the ground and her purse stolen. 

having settled in a bit here, I feel safer than i ever felt in the suburbs of Chicago. 

You have to adapt to the lifestyle; it's not the same as the US. However, I think it is much better.


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## BajaGringo

I like your answer Bob - very similar to my own sentiments...



Bob Cox said:


> First of all...Plan A. move to Mexico and stay there
> PLAN b. MOVE TO mexico and stay there.
> Looks to me like many Americans want their cake and want to eat it also.. they want to keep the house in the U.S. and have a hacienda at the same time...Nice work if you can get it!! that´s costly. Well I´ve already moved to Mexico, been here 40 years, No I´m not leaving.
> Another thing Gringos ...and I´m one also... are hung up on health insurance.. do you know what´ll happen during a catastrophe? I mean like North Korea drops an H bomb on L.A. or the boogie Woogie Flu hits and kills 30 percent of the Country?
> The Insurance Companies will declare bankruptcy and move what money they have to the Cayman Islands. Then your out in the cold, there are no guarantees in life. Are you planning on coming to Mexico and getting sick? Then you might as well stay at home and let the Government overtax you and stress you out till you fall over dead.
> Is it safe to come here__ Certainly not! No place in the world is SAFE. I wish I had a dollar every time some paranoid tourist asked me that, I´d buy a hacienda.
> You got to have guts to pull up stakes and move on.
> I´ll be here to greet the brave ones. I hope you´re one of them.


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## RVGRINGO

Just this moment, I returned from getting my number to start the FM3 renewal process when Immigration comes to Chapala in another 90 minutes. One of the young expat retirees in line had just received a hip replacement in an IMSS hospital in Guadalajara. He was a happy camper and, after just four weeks, is able to get out and about with just a cane. He's looking forward to full recovery and is very happy he has IMSS coverage; certainly not the shiniest hospitals or the best food, but the price is right.......free!


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## BajaGringo

That is a great point RV. If you can learn to use the system here and rely on the IMSS system for major medical and just pay a local doctor you choose for day to day stuff like a cold or flu, you will be way ahead of the game. 

There are horror stories in every health care system. It can happen in Mexico and it can happen back home. I lost a 14 year old daughter five years ago to gross negligence by an HMO in a major hospital in Los Angeles. The vast majority of Gringos I talk to who have recieved trama care / undergone surgery in the IMSS system in Mexico have been generaly happy with the care they got here. Especially when compared to what that same care would have cost them back home. 

YMMV


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## Kaye

Hi all, One question I haven't resolved: Can one get IMSS insurance once you've reached 70 yrs of age? Being Canadian, I'm fortunate to pay about $55 monthy for coverage here in BC and on my modest retirement income that low cost is important. But what is it likely to cost me in Mexico if I have to go for a private plan, even without pre-existing conditions? Thanks!


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## MandyinJax

*Plan B*



BajaGringo said:


> A lot is happening in the world today - recessions are like flu bugs it seems, everything playing out on a global level. Many Baby Boomers have seen a big decline in their property value and investments back home. The old standard model of planning for the future is changing and many who are caught in the middle are taking a second look at their retirement plan scenarios. That made me ponder a couple of things...
> 
> Does the current economic situation make your retirement in Mexico more or less likely?
> 
> If you have already made the move to Mexico, does a big drop in the value of your investments change your idea on staying in Mexico?
> 
> What is your "Plan B"?




Hi BajaGringo,
Mexico was my plan A for years but my late husband's plan A was to retire to Hawaii where he was born/raised and where his family still resides. After his death last year, Hawaii came off the table. Not affordable on one pension. 

Mexico is my plan A, however considering the world economy, I have considered other options. My plan B1 could be Ecuador, but I couldn't take my car, big negative, and the new government is only two years old. Past governments were scary. But the country is beautiful, diverse eco systems, cost effective.
Plan B2 is Uruguay, cost effective, beautiful, and so far no negatives... Plan B3 is Italy but that is just a pie-in-the-sky dream in the event I win a lottery... 

But I believe my Plan A will have me Mexico bound next year. I can't wait, I am like a kid counting the days until Christmas! 

MandyinJax


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## RVGRINGO

Kaye,
Yes, you will fall into the IMSS 'over 60' group and pay approximately 3400 Pesos per year for membership. Obvious pre-existing conditions will be exempted and some serious ones may eliminate you from eligibility.
Private medical insurance is difficult or impossible to obtain in Mexico over 65-70 years of age. If you buy it at a younger age, you may sometimes keep the policy but at higher and higher rates.


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## Kaye

Thanks for the medical insurance information, RV ******. Looks like it's IMSS or nada!


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## floridagal

Mexico IS my "plan B" and I'm so excited about the move - I just wish my home would sell so I can make it a reality instead of a dream. The market in FL really really stinks and I've underpriced my home from the git-go and it still doesn't seem to matter.

I'm to the point of totally trusting God to provide for me until I can move... and I continue to sort, give away and decide what will fit in my minivan as that's all I will be bringing in with me - the moving rates are outrageous for anyone living on a rather limited income.

Anyone have a time machine? I'll climb in and be instantly whisked to Chapala. )

Donna


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## BryansRose

floridagal said:


> Mexico IS my "plan B" and I'm so excited about the move - I just wish my home would sell so I can make it a reality instead of a dream. The market in FL really really stinks and I've underpriced my home from the git-go and it still doesn't seem to matter.
> 
> I'm to the point of totally trusting God to provide for me until I can move... and I continue to sort, give away and decide what will fit in my minivan as that's all I will be bringing in with me - the moving rates are outrageous for anyone living on a rather limited income.
> 
> Anyone have a time machine? I'll climb in and be instantly whisked to Chapala. )
> 
> Donna


I know how you feel. I waited for 10 months for one of my two properties to sell so I'd have the cash to come down here to live. I hope your home sells soon, but if it doesn't...

It's well worth the wait!


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## floridagal

Thanks BryansRose... I don't have enough money to keep paying the credit cards AND the mortgage, insurance, property tax, etc for even three more months - so something HAS to give and super-fast. I'm not a quitter though, and my dream is to move to Chapala ASAP - hopefully I can beat the snowbirds since I want to make it a permanent home. My friends who live there absolutely LOVE it and I am having a hard time waiting to go...

Anyone know when the housing market will revive? I hate to drop the price to 'giveaway' status and then a few months later see it skyrocket to what it's really been worth all along... but darn, my crystal ball just won't answer me... lol.

Donna - gonna keep on hanging in there!


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## BajaGringo

Is there any chance that you could just rent the house out? I really don't see the housing market "reviving" any time soon. Still something like 10 to 15 million folks out there in the USA who are still in their homes but behind on their mortgages. If those go into foreclosure the prices will take another hit...


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## BryansRose

Can you talk to some realtors in your area to get a feel for what your local housing market is doing?

Where I came from, things are picking up as far as there being more buyers, but there are so many foreclosures that the market is still saturated. 

I can see the housing market getting back on its feet, but I don't think anyone will see home prices skyrocket. You said something about the price going back to what it was worth all along. Houses are only worth what people are willing to pay. The value that we all saw "on paper" was, imo, only because demand increased tremendously due to easy mortgages. From what I saw when I sold my condo last January, there are no more "easy mortgages". 

We can only try to make the best decision based on the information we have at the time. I chose to price my condo to sell fast, since I was reaching the point where I had to move, and my other property is not going to sell any time soon. Two years ago, I could have gotten 20% more for my condo. *shrug* That didn't change the fact that I couldn't expect that kind of money if I wanted to move in the near future. And I still realized a healthy profit, since I'd lived there for 20 years. 

Only you know what is best for your situation. Good luck to you!


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## floridagal

BajaGringo - I think you're right (sadly) but renting wouldn't bring in the needed cash for paying down some debts OR cash for the Mex move. The proverbial rock and hard place seems to be apropos in my life... but God is bigger than any problem so I must continue doing my part and trusting Him completely. The law of attraction needs to get busy and send me the 'perfect buyers' ASAP... :clap2:

BryansRose - You're right, too... and yes, I've seen the "comps" for my area - pretty grim since there are about 75 other homes in a similar price range - regardless of the fact that the realtors said to me "Yours is the nicest one in the group.... " it still needs some lookers. My daughter said drop it below $100K and eat the loss - at least you'll get something back, even if not anywhere near what you would've gotten even a year ago.

I'm about to that point. I put up some photos at floridahome4sale.shutterfly.com if anyone's interested


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## RVGRINGO

Holding out for a higher price in this financial meltdown will probably be counterproductive. By the time you might get a few more dollars, those dollars won't be worth as much and you will only be that much older and have paid that much more in taxes and maintenance. That's the reality of it.


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## MandyinJax

To FloridaGal,
From another FL gal. I want to relocate and start my new life so badly also. Like you I sincerely believe that if you want something and it isn't harmful, illegal or immoral God will bring people, events and funds into your life to make it happen. This website is truly a blessing! Without it I'd be in a pickle as there is so much involved in relocating that you just can't get from books. 

I bought my house just before the bottom fell out and even though I negotiated a good deal on the house, 6 months later the value was 10k less than I paid for it. So I am "under water" or upside down as the realtors say. There are houses in my neighborhood that have been on the market for a year, many are now listed for rent and still sitting empty. I try to remain optimistic that the market will rebound soon.

I know I can live well in Mexico, but it is the "getting there" that is the problem. I estimate that I will need at least $2,000 USD to cover gas, tolls, hotels and food to get there from here. And then I would need "start up" money. Funds to cover a POD to store some of the furniture and things that I just can't part with. I rec'd an estimate of $5,000 USD to ship my household goods. I NEED TO SELL MY HOUSE for a decent price! 

In the meantime, I am going back to work so I can save money for the move. I was just beginning to enjoy not working! But I will do whatever it takes to make my dream come true.

So FloridaGal, we are in the same boat! With luck you and I and RVGringo may be sharing a margarita next year at a cafe on the malecon in Chapala! Say another prayer! 

MandyinJax


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## BajaGringo

I know of a guy who wants to retire full time in Mexico but first needs to sell his home in California. It is a small 2 BR place on the central coast with a nice view. He first put it on the market a little over two years ago asking something like $895,000. He rejected several offers in the high $700's and one just over $800K I believe in the first six months it was for sale. Today it is still on the market and listed at $550K. He is still waiting to get his "market value".

In the meantime time keeps ticking and he has lost almost three years of his Mexico dream retirement. I keep telling him that he will make it down here in time for us to hire some mariachis for his wake...


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## RVGRINGO

I sure hope you FL Gals can sell for at least enough that you can buy me a whole margarita of my own. I enjoy helping and sharing but three on a margarita is going a bit too far. 
Besides, a margarita is a ladie's drink. Men prefer 'palomas', tequila and Squirt, not to be confused with the diminutive, 'palomitas', which is popcorn.


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## floridagal

*RVGringo* - Ha... not only THAT but I'd be less likely to get IMSS before I'm too dang old to really gain the benefits. Appreciate your input a lot... there are some amazing people here and I can't wait to meet you all in person! My goal is by gosh and by golly before winter... even if I have to just pack up and leave it all to whomever (definitely a last-ditch thing but it's still an option). Oh, and you'll definitely get a whole, big Paloma of your own from me - perhaps at the legion in Chapala one day soon!

*BajaGringo* - Ouch, that poor guy... of course at this point, having a home worth half a million isn't all bad, either... like five times better than mine (but I'm super-proud of my property cuz I bought it as a single female with NO help from anyone - a first at the tender age of 55 - a longgggggg time ago now it feels like). The stress is phenomenal right now, and I do everything I can to stay sane and healthy and survive this crisis. All prayers welcomed!

*MandyInJax* - Jipes - that stinks out loud... I have thought of going back to work but nobody wants a grumpy nurse caring for them and I get grumpy when my back/feet start hurting. I even bought Z-coils (the ugliest shoes on the planet) and they don't keep the pain away long enough to survive an 8-hour shift. My online biz is suffering too... because of the economy... so I'm doing the best I can with what I have to work with... and refusing to ever, ever give up on myself or the Universe.  

Heck, girl, maybe we can "run away from it all" en masse? Ha! My problem is I've sunk a lot of money, time, love, improvements and care into this place and I'm not quite ready to let go of everything I worked so hard to keep up for so darn long... I've given away almost all of my furniture, my book collections, clothing, shoes, etc etc. It's actually very freeing (until you need one of the major appliances or tools you gave away... haha) and I don't regret it.

Ok... enough from me, gotta get back to work doing something that might make a few bucks.

Much care to you all - what a fab group!

Donna


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## BajaGringo

One of the advantages to Mexico is that I believe it offers you a wider range of options for those needing a plan B or even C!!!

Flexibility and adaptability are keys to making that a viable option.


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## MandyinJax

Hey, don't plan my wake yet! I will get to Mexico before I hear the bagpipes. The reason FloridaGal and I and others NEED to sell our houses, well I can't speak for FloridaGal actually, but a very large & powerful bank holds an equally large mortgage on my house. So if I just pack up and move I'll be in BIG trouble. I cannot pay that mortgage in the US and rent in Mexico. If I just abandon the house that I worked very hard for, my credit will be ruined from now until the next century. Not a pretty picture. I'm not being neurotic, just practical and responsible. And I need whatever little equity is available. 

Mandy


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## BajaGringo

I hear you Mandy and my comments weren't directed at you in particular but in general to folks just to get them to realize that they may have to accept less than what they expected / hoped to get for property back home. The upside is that real estate is down as well in many parts of Mexico so you can make some of it back on this end. 

The most important point of all is to realize that life itself is much more precious than the value of your 401K. My friend with the property still for sale two and a half years later had many chances to sell but he was always trying to "get a little bit more". That philosophy has cost him not only money but years of his life that he cannot ever recover, even if he sells the home tomorrow for any price. 

He lost his wife three years ago, his son is living and working in Brazil and his two closest friends have been living down here for some time now. He comes down almost every month to visit but he feels trapped in a cage built largely by himself IMHO. I keep telling him to just lower the price to $399,000 and he can be living down here within 90 days. 

He tells me that he just can't bring himself to do it. Then I remind him that in six months he might be wishing he could get that much for it. 

Then he just growls at me...


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## MandyinJax

RV & FloridaGal, 
I meant to say "sipping" margaritas, not sharing! Too funny. I have never heard of a Palomas but I will be sure that you have a big one when we meet! 

MandyinJax


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## MandyinJax

BajaGringo
I understand and I didn't take it personally. It is frustrating. I understand your friend. We all get a little greedy, it is the American way. I was living in an apt I loved and I succumbed to peer pressure. Everyone told me I was missing the boat, that I had to buy a house. That the house will appreciate 10-15% a year, in a couple years I could sell it and make a ton of money. The jokes on me! If I had stayed in the apt and not plundered my 401k for the down payment, and plundered savings for the closing costs, I'd be sitting on enough money to move right now. Live and learn. My cute little house has become an albatross. 

Things will turn around, I just hope sooner rather than later. 

Have a good day,
Mandy


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## bloomfieldtj

RVGRINGO said:


> Just this moment, I returned from getting my number to start the FM3 renewal process when Immigration comes to Chapala in another 90 minutes. One of the young expat retirees in line had just received a hip replacement in an IMSS hospital in Guadalajara. He was a happy camper and, after just four weeks, is able to get out and about with just a cane. He's looking forward to full recovery and is very happy he has IMSS coverage; certainly not the shiniest hospitals or the best food, but the price is right.......free!


Hi RVGingo. Can you explain what the IMSS system of health care is in Mexico? I'm from the UK. Is it like the UK's NHS system? Do hospitals in Mexico City DF use this sytem and can foreigners access it?

Many thanks.

JB


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## floridagal

I'm not RVGringo but there's a great article here about the IMSS: Obtaining Mexican Social Security (IMSS) Health Insurance : Mexico Living

Been studying before my big transition.


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## RVGRINGO

IMSS has separate clinics and hospitals and is available to all, by membership fee, if you are living legally in Mexico with an FM3 or FM2. It is not 'insurance' which can be used in other facilities. Many expats maintain it for serious emergencies, which might otherwise be unaffordable, but still see private doctors and/or pay for some procedures in private hospitals.


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## BajaGringo

IMSS care for day to day things like a cold or flu will generally translate into long waits in line for a few minutes with a nurse - you may not even see a doctor some times. For those simple things you can the same advice from a good pharmacist in many cases. If you really want to see a doctor for the non-emergency medical needs just pay a local doctor as the cost is generally quite reasonable, you won't have to sit in a waiting room forever and his time with you one on one is generous in comparison to what you may have been used to back home. 

IMSS does provide generally good care for emergency care and surgical intervention. Do the math and you will find that you can get good care for much less than you would have paid back home...


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## bloomfieldtj

BajaGringo said:


> IMSS care for day to day things like a cold or flu will generally translate into long waits in line for a few minutes with a nurse - you may not even see a doctor some times. For those simple things you can the same advice from a good pharmacist in many cases. If you really want to see a doctor for the non-emergency medical needs just pay a local doctor as the cost is generally quite reasonable, you won't have to sit in a waiting room forever and his time with you one on one is generous in comparison to what you may have been used to back home.
> 
> IMSS does provide generally good care for emergency care and surgical intervention. Do the math and you will find that you can get good care for much less than you would have paid back home...


Thanks to all for your interesting responses about the IMSS system. 
JB


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## BajaGringo

bloomfieldtj said:


> Thanks to all for your interesting responses about the IMSS system.
> JB


For whatever reason, I have found that the IMSS system's requirements for joining seem to vary by region. Not sure if that is truly by policy or lack of information. Check locally with your office to see what they will require. I personally know of someone turned down in Monterrey and accepted in Guadalajara with an identical application.


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## mensamia

BryansRose said:


> Yes, I do feel lucky. I'm in San Luis Potosi. I chose this area because I don't like heat and humidity, and I don't mind chilly nights. The city itself, and the surrounding areas, were settled a few hundred years ago by the Spanish; it was a mining area. So there is a lot of wonderful old architecture. It's a large enough city to have a goodly amount of cultural events.
> 
> The city does not have an American enclave per se. there really aren't too many foreigners here, which I prefer. There is a GM plant here and management seems to be transferred down from the states for 2-3 years at a time. Other than that, there are only a few of us permanent transplants.
> 
> If you'd like to know more, just let me know.


I would like to know more... drove from San Luis Potosi to Rio Verde and loved the countryside. Would like to know more about Rio Verde, have a dream of buying a couple of acres, very spartan lifestyle on a minimalist budget. Can't seem to find any real estate sites except directorio.mx. Any advice totally appreciated.. thanks in advance


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## BajaGringo

mensamia said:


> I would like to know more... drove from San Luis Potosi to Rio Verde and loved the countryside. Would like to know more about Rio Verde, have a dream of buying a couple of acres, very spartan lifestyle on a minimalist budget. Can't seem to find any real estate sites except directorio.mx. Any advice totally appreciated.. thanks in advance


Your best bet to find land in more remote areas of Mexico is to come down and find it yourself. Driving around and asking questions will help you find the best choice of property at the best price.


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## RVGRINGO

Very true! The concept of real estate agencies and the need to pay commissions is not well received in Mexico, except by expats in tourist areas or areas where expats settle in large numbers. Finding real estate requires footwork and word of mouth. One must search the target area for 'se vende' signs and, even then, ask if a piece of property might be for sale if it interests you. By the way, most Mexicans and few expats chose to live 'remotely' for a variety of reasons.


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## BryansRose

I haven't been over to Rio Verde, but I can answer most questions about the city of San Luis Potosi.

I found a realtor there by doing a search for agents on the Re/Max website. You might also try Century 21 -- they have a site you can search for international. I can put youin touch with the realtors I know here in SLP but I'm not sure if they work as far away as Rio Verde. 

And word of mouth is always a good way to find things here.


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## BajaGringo

When looking in remote areas you will find great advice at places like small stores and shops where you can talk with the locals and just ask. Much of the property for sale in remote areas may not even have a "se vende" sign. Talk to the locals as they know what's up as well as if the property has any history of title disputes. 

I have often found their information to be much more reliable and accurate in such cases than that what a realtor would tell you. Buying in a remote area as we did is quite different than buying in more populated areas and getting to know the area, the history and the very neighbors on whom you will learn to depend is important. 

Looking on the internet is fun and will give you some direction but your real work will need to be done on the ground, driving around and asking lots of questions.

Good luck!


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## mensamia

thanks Bryan'sRose and BajaGringo. Does anyone know an expat living in Rio Verde? Any gringos there? It is kind of a long way to come to drive around looking. Was hoping to find someone who would do some legwork for a nominal fee and line up a few inexpensive properties.


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## RVGRINGO

Those looking for property should be aware of the status of 'Ejido property' and know to avoid attempting to buy it or being convinced that 'something can be done'. It can get very complicated and you wouldn't be the first to lose your total investment with no recourse.


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## Ajijic Lady

We downsized in the US, but maintain a small house there, in addition to our home in Ajijic. That's Plan B for us.


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## RVGRINGO

Welcome, Ajijic Lady, to the forum and to Lake Chapala. I'm sure your input will be a valuable addition to the forum.


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## BajaGringo

I have had several conversation with folks in the last couple of months on how they have changed their retirement plans this past year. Some are downsizing others are taking out lump sum disbursements and still others are just putting off retirement. The one thing I found almost all had in common was the idea of cutting expenses and cutting up their credit cards. 

I have a very strong sense that we are heading into some uncharted waters in the next couple of years...


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## RVGRINGO

Very true. The Mexican government is predicting the worst economic situation in thirty years for 2010 and the only really good news on the horizon is that they are finally making plans for a new oil refinery to be constructed. I hear that construction on any number of other projects has been halted; both private and government projects and developments, including ports and highways, resorts, etc. It is sad to have workers, who have worked for us in the past, come to the door in the hope that we might have another project for them. Since we are also tightening our belts in the face of inflation and uncertainty, we aren't planning any new projects either. We're not eating out as often, nor are we traveling as much. Fortunately, for most expats in Mexico, we own our homes and the upkeep is inexpensive so we can 'hunker down' so long as the Social Security keeps coming. In the USA, there seems to be some abatement in the slide down the slippery slope which many want to interpret as a 'turnaround'. I fear that it is, at best, the slowing slide to the bottom. Frankly, Mexico seems a better place to be right now.


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## BajaGringo

That is one of the great benefits I see to life in Mexico. If you own your own home you can live a good/comfortable life on relatively little money in comparison to north of the border. I have a cousin who lived with her family in a beautiful California home with a great ocean view in Laguna Beach until a few years ago. The home was left to them by her dad / my uncle and although they owned it free and clear they eventually had to sell it as on teachers paychecks the property taxes and insurance alone was taking most of their take home pay in the end.

Today alone I received four different emails on the subject of moving down here including questions like if it's possible to build a small home in Baja for less than $40,000 USD and live on less than $1000 USD per month.

There is a change coming and folks sense it...


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## roni

We have about 20 months of stuff to do up here NOB yet. Secure jobs, we have.

But, we could sell out cheap now and survive, moving to Mexico if we needed to. We'd make the FM-3 rentista minimums. There is some feeling of security in that.


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## El Toro Furioso

There is a change coming and folks sense it...
I agree. I just hope that it doesn't mean cutting SS reimbursements. We are two years away from early (62-yr-old) payments, but we are really relying on them, as we have for the past six years. Social security payments have been part of our budget since I was 53 years old. That is, the anticipation of receiving them in the future. If that changes significantly, we could probably be OK, but it would definitely disrupt the overall budget plan and entail cutbacks.


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## BajaGringo

Personally I believe we are headed into a point in history where the old time tested rules are now being rewritten and sometimes on a daily basis. We made the decision to make some major changes to our own lifestyle/plans and are just hoping for the best but bracing for the worst.

I sense that too many people out there are blindly hoping that somebody in government knows what they are doing and somehow, magically all will work out and things will go back to "normal".

I just don't have much faith in that anymore...


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## Canadianabroad

BryansRose said:


> Safe. Almost all my friends told me I would not be safe. I came from one of the most affluent counties in the US. And outside my condo buildling: 1) my car was broken into, attempted theft: and 2) an elderly woman was pushed to the ground and her purse stolen.
> 
> having settled in a bit here, I feel safer than i ever felt in the suburbs of Chicago.
> 
> You have to adapt to the lifestyle; it's not the same as the US. However, I think it is much better.


Greetings. 

I can't speak for the safety of Chicago. I did my degree in Windsor (detroit suburb), and have lived in TO for 20 years. I just relocated to SLP, to teach English. I asked my boss, how safe is SLP, during the interview? I also reiterated that at 4 in the afternoon the previous week there was a shoot out in the apartment building next door - part of a gang tit-for-tat that was being played out in Toronto. I've been in SLP for 2 1/2 weeks now. I haven't gone out much at night, but I have walked and walked the centro and other areas during the day. As a tall blonde I stand out, but I feel equally safe here as I did in Ontario. 

As a newbie to SLP I would like to meet some folks - to expand my circle of friends beyond the work colleagues. My spanish was non-existent a month ago, but is improving daily. Any suggestions??

K


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## BryansRose

Send me a private message with your email, and I'll email you the address of the President of the International Friendship Club here in SLP. The IFC is for ex-pats all over the world. We have lots of US and Canadian members, as well as Mexican and others. It's a good place to start to get to know people and get tips on living in SLP.


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## maryellen1952

I totally agree with BajaGringo that the average American his/her their head in the sand and is going to face a shocking reality about the direction American Society is heading.
I had planned to move to Mexico in a couple of years but I realize early this year that the U.S. is not going to return to normalcy so decided I would move to Tijuana rather than continuing a stressful existence in the U.S. And I've moved to several parts of the country and it is the same story everywhere...increasing taxes, lower services, low paying jobs and continuing cost of living increases.
Tijuana is not my first choice (that being Guadalajara) but for me it is an improvement over the current state of the U.S. My stress level has decreased dramatically. Fortunately I am one of those childless (pet parent instead) so I only have to work in San Diego part time. The days of working and working and working just to survive have ended with my relocation to Tijuana. Unfortuately many Americans are going to wake up one day and discover that if they don't emigrate out of the U.S. they are going to be HOMELESS.


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## TundraGreen

MandyinJax said:


> To FloridaGal,
> From another FL gal.
> [...]
> I rec'd an estimate of $5,000 USD to ship my household goods.
> [...]
> 
> MandyinJax


$5000 usd is over $60,000 mxn. You can buy an awful lot of furniture in Mexico for that price. It would be worth thinking about whether shipping is really the best plan.

Memo


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## RVGRINGO

Yes, we furnished our first 2BR home for about that price; all new furniture and appliances purchased locally. We did bring kitchen stuff, books, clothing and a laptop. It seems foolish to ship 'coals to Newcastle'. Everything you will need is available in Mexico; it is not the 'third world'. In fact, there are very upscale shopping centers that are world class ........ need a new Bugatti motorcycle? Third floor.


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## BryansRose

maryellen1952 said:


> I totally agree with BajaGringo that the average American his/her their head in the sand and is going to face a shocking reality about the direction American Society is heading.
> I had planned to move to Mexico in a couple of years but I realize early this year that the U.S. is not going to return to normalcy so decided I would move to Tijuana rather than continuing a stressful existence in the U.S. And I've moved to several parts of the country and it is the same story everywhere...increasing taxes, lower services, low paying jobs and continuing cost of living increases.
> Tijuana is not my first choice (that being Guadalajara) but for me it is an improvement over the current state of the U.S. My stress level has decreased dramatically. Fortunately I am one of those childless (pet parent instead) so I only have to work in San Diego part time. The days of working and working and working just to survive have ended with my relocation to Tijuana. Unfortuately many Americans are going to wake up one day and discover that if they don't emigrate out of the U.S. they are going to be HOMELESS.


I agree with you. I left almost 2 years ago, and I'm so glad I didn't wait any longer. All I hear from the US is that things are getting worse. My good friend is a Realtor -- she listed my condo for me and I got less than I had thought I would get even 6 months previously. She told me recently I'm lucky I left when I did, since I wouldn't get as much money for it now. Thank goodness all my property is sold now, and I think I'll be all right here, with or without social security, if it comes to that. 
I would have been one of those homeless people you mention by now if I didn't leave when I did. And you're right about the stress level. I applaud you for making the move!


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## maryellen1952

BryansRose said:


> I agree with you. I left almost 2 years ago, and I'm so glad I didn't wait any longer. All I hear from the US is that things are getting worse. My good friend is a Realtor -- she listed my condo for me and I got less than I had thought I would get even 6 months previously. She told me recently I'm lucky I left when I did, since I wouldn't get as much money for it now. Thank goodness all my property is sold now, and I think I'll be all right here, with or without social security, if it comes to that.
> I would have been one of those homeless people you mention by now if I didn't leave when I did. And you're right about the stress level. I applaud you for making the move!


Tijuana is an ideal place to start your descent south of the border as it is more Americanized than other parts of Mexico esp. for those who have never traveled outside of the U.S.
Several people in my complex were either on the verge of homelessness or on SSI and have relocated here and you will see more of them as things worsen in the U.S.
I am slowly weaning myself from making too many trips across the border to buy things and one day hope to find everything I need here. This is a great place if you are an independent and resourceful person who can think outside of the box.


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