# Residency? - Long term benefits?



## ConradHart (Apr 23, 2018)

Hi guys. I´ll TRY and edit this down to keep it as short as possible - main point/question is bolded in case you don´t want to read the whole thing.

Have been mulling over Spanish residency (trying before 31st Dec) over keeping the UK as my main residence and then just coming to Spain based on the 90/180 day tourist rules when possible.

My main question is:
*Are there any longer term benefits to getting Spanish residency now (as a British EU citizen) that I may have overlooked?*
For clarity my current position is. Nowhere near pension age and yet too old to be considered for most jobs (46). Currently coming to the end of being furloughed (and we have all been told we won´t have jobs at the end of it). So basically I have to class myself as unemployed.

Short term I´ve done the maths and from a purely financial point of view Spanish Residency doesn´t make short term sense. As I will have to pay for private health care (which I wouldn´t use much anyway - if at all). In England this would be ´free´.
I would also have to pay full and ongoing prescription costs (as this is not covered under any private healthcare).

Of course I wouldn´t qualify for any kind of welfare help in Spain whilst unemployed or otherwise as I would in England. - Unemployment benefits, housing, council tax reductions etc.

Inheritance tax could also be a future financial concern. I would pay zero in the UK though around 20-22% in Spain.

I do have some money (savings) in the bank which I believe is enough to attain residency as an EU citizen at least and this is the route I was going to go down re Spanish residency. So that´s a bit of a ´saving grace´at least. In that I could probably take a short term hit in finances for a period of time (I´ve lived hand to mouth before and it wasn´t `pretty at times).

All the positives for living in Spain (and I should clarify that it would be in the South where the sun shines which possibly the East Coast as a future option) revolve around the lifestyle there.
I know that people always say that ´there is no work in Spain, ´don´t come here etc.´and where that may be true. I have to wonder if the people that say that are mostly all living in Downton Abbey back in the UK, or at least are ´well off´ and perhaps look back at the UK with rose tinted glasses somewhat.
Personally I come from a northern town that regularly features in these top 10 poverty lists you may have seen in the news from time to time so my job prospects are just (if not more so) as grim if I stay at ´home´. Especially now that I will be unemployed in the not too distant future at an age where as I have already stated, I´m considered ´too old´for most new jobs and retraining etc. etc. etc. And I severely doubt that Brexit is going to make things any better.
Add in the appalling weather and it´s a very depressing thought to be ´on the dole´ without prospects and getting on a bit 

Anyway, apologies if this has gone a bit ´ranty´´ and I must thank you for reading this far.
In case you forgot, lol. I´m just looking for any reasons why I should try and get Spanish residency now as opposed to just waiting. Like, could there perhaps be something that might come back to ´bite me on the ass´ if I were to leave it (maybe around the future pensions, health care perhaps)? I already know that I would ´need more money in the bank´to apply as a 3rd country citizen.

And also if anyone has any other input that would be greatly appreciated either way. As you will have guessed I´m really on the knife edge here and can´t decide. And it´s already December 1st now which I had down as my ultimate deadline to start the residency process (I plan on using a gestor if I do decide on that route and hopefully I could still get in there without ´fate´deciding).

Thanks.


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## incatalunya (Nov 16, 2020)

That´s a difficult one. Without knowing your full financial circumstances...and I´m not asking....But I know what you mean about being unemployed and the British weather. All I can say is it´s better to be unemployed in the sun.....although as you say, the benefits you will be entitled to in the UK might outweigh the better weather.


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

The advantages to arriving in Spain to live by 31 December 2020 and getting registered as a resident under the Withdrawal Agreement are that you would not have to meet the higher income requirements for a non-EU citizen which will apply to those arriving from 1 January 2021 onwards, when you become eligible for the UK state pension you would continue to receive annual uprating, and possibly the most important, when you start to receive your state pension you would be eligible for an S1 form meaning your healthcare costs would be met by the UK and you would pay only 10% of prescription costs (with a monthly cap of €8 if your income is below €18k per year or €18 if your income is between €18 - 100k) - provided the Spanish costs stay the same, that is. You may not consider these to be particularly relevant if you are a long way off pension age and would be able to meet the non-EU income requirements to register as a resident at a later date anyway.

I am from a Northern town myself, definitely no Downton Abbey antecedents! I moved here 14 years ago at the age of 50 but would never have come had I or my husband needed to look for work here. After we first bought our house we gradually got to know a few British people living locally and the majority of them were, as you say, living hand to mouth, working cash in hand (in some cases for as little as €5 per hour in bars or cleaning holiday accommodation), or running failing businesses. None of them seemed to be giviing much thought to what they would do once they reached retirement age as they weren't paying social security in Spain and wouldn't have had much of an NI contribution record in the UK. Things have not got any easier since then - especially now with the pandemic and years of economic pain to come so jobs are no easier to find. I really wouldn't recommend it until you can be sure you can be financially independent until your pension(s) become payable.


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## ConradHart (Apr 23, 2018)

incatalunya said:


> That´s a difficult one. Without knowing your full financial circumstances...and I´m not asking....But I know what you mean about being unemployed and the British weather. All I can say is it´s better to be unemployed in the sun.....although as you say, the benefits you will be entitled to in the UK might outweigh the better weather.


I know. It´s a bit of a cliche, but literally a better life is often linked to the weather. Especially as (though I´m getting on a bit now) I´m still pretty fit and very much an outdoors person.


It´s certainly not gone unnoticed (as it´s impossible not to notice), BUT almost all my reasons for staying in the UK were (are) all based around the welfare system. 
That´s fine for a while I guess as I won´t end up on the street and won´t have to use all my ´savings´up. But seriously, what the heck am I going to do there longer term? I´ll be unemployed for real (with zero income) from around March . . .That will soon come. Then . . . . . . .20+ years on welfare in the rain?
It´s tough!


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

It is a great lifestyle, I can understand your reluctance to go back to grey and wet days and it being dark by 4pm (see, I remember!). But even if you don't want an extravagant lifestyle, you still can't enjoy being here if you can't afford a reasonable place to live, energy bills to keep warm in winter (once you've lived here for a full year you rapidly become acclimatised and we now feel cold when it's below 23C) and cool in summer, food and all the other bills, before you start on eating out, travel and other forms of entertainment. I know the UK welfare system isn't generous to single people, but here you would get nothing at all if you hadn't paid in enough social security contributions, having had to demonstrate that you have the ability to support yourself without recourse to public funds in order to register as a resident. The Spanish minimo ingreso vital is only around €400 per month, remember - and there's nothing extra like Housing Benefit available on top of that. What sort of a life do you think people can enjoy on that?


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## incatalunya (Nov 16, 2020)

Yes. But remember......You will find it difficult if not impossible to find a job in Spain so Welfare considerations are important. Only come to Spain if you can afford not to work.


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## ConradHart (Apr 23, 2018)

incatalunya said:


> Yes. But remember......You will find it difficult if not impossible to find a job in Spain so Welfare considerations are important. Only come to Spain if you can afford not to work.


Hmmmm. This is another ´difficulty´I have. Ideally I´ll be able to find some way of working online mostly.
Though I have no idea how that would work with regards to paying taxes in Spain and also getting onto the public health system as any ´company´is most likely to be from outside of Spain (more specifically the UK or USA).

It´s really tough as a lot of this stuff is based on ´the unknown´and what ifs. But due to Brexit I of course don´t have any time to ´find a known alternative´.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Personally I think it would be madness to move to Spain on a permanent basis with no employment prospects, and give up all the financial benefits of residing in the UK, just because the weather is better and you like the lifestyle.

The option to come over for extended holidays sounds much more sensible. You'd have the best of both worlds.


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## tebo53 (Sep 18, 2014)

Alcalaina said:


> Personally I think it would be madness to move to Spain on a permanent basis with no employment prospects, and give up all the financial benefits of residing in the UK, just because the weather is better and you like the lifestyle.
> 
> The option to come over for extended holidays sounds much more sensible. You'd have the best of both worlds.





ConradHart said:


> Hi guys. I´ll TRY and edit this down to keep it as short as possible - main point/question is bolded in case you don´t want to read the whole thing.
> 
> Have been mulling over Spanish residency (trying before 31st Dec) over keeping the UK as my main residence and then just coming to Spain based on the 90/180 day tourist rules when possible.
> 
> ...


Usually when we get questions such as yours the OP's are usually raring to go and can't wait to get here, I don't sense that at all within your posting. 

You are unlikely to find employment, you won't get any financial help, you want to live in the south where the sun is but maybe you don't realise that the heat can be absolutely unbearable in the summer months. 

IMHO you will be better off staying where you are and having extended holidays until you have all the facts about income and healthcare requirements after Brexit is all done and dusted. 

Best of luck

Steve


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

On the other hand, if the OP wants to give it a go, now is a better time than later...

It is often repeated that decent gainful employment is very difficult to find in Spain (because it is!), but some of us have manged it! 

Moving and getting documented now will be easier than it will be later and the advantages of being a beneficiary of the WA are theoretically permanent, so if the OP is prepared to put in the effort of learning the language, getting qualifications, and putting up with the disadvantages which a new life will inevitably bring (and which the OP seems refreshingly aware of), I would say do it now. Just be prepared to accept it if it doesn't work out, and don't burn any bridges!


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

It is often repeated that decent gainful employment is very difficult to find in Spain (because it is!), but some of us have managed it
[/QUOTE]


Whilst it is true that some of us have managed it that doesn't imply that it was a case of nothing but positive thinking and believing in your dreams etc. In the majority of cases where we became employees it was down to having skills required in the market. I was already an English teacher, I had Spanish connections and a basic knowledge of the language and was still in my thirties. Without all these I would undoubtedly had to return to UK. Despite having employment here I now regret it in so far as I limited my career opportunities and have had to accept a rather frugal lifestyle which is hard sometimes. Fortunately I was able to keep a UK property which has provided an extra income to assist my family but that was itself through inheritance and something I am truly grateful for. Spain is no doubt an attractive proposition for many a Brit who dreams of winter Sun and cheap drinks but I suggest it is better kept as something for your retirement and not for your young years


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Overandout said:


> It is often repeated that decent gainful employment is very difficult to find in Spain (because it is!), but some of us have managed it!


But you are in Madrid where there are far more employment opportunities. In the sunny south, the unemployment rate is around 25% and that doesn't reflect that most jobs (70%??) are low-paid short-term contracts in agriculture or tourism.


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## NickZ (Jun 26, 2009)

kaipa said:


> a rather frugal lifestyle


Which brings up the question what sort of lifestyle is the OP looking for? 

Rent 300€? More? 
Utilities per month? Between light,heat,phone/internet 
Groceries? Especially if the OP wants some taste of home.

Sitting on the public beach might be free but it can get boring day after day. But without some money coming in it's kind of hard to do much more.

Worse with no support anything that happens can be an issue. Even something small like the phone breaking.


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## ConradHart (Apr 23, 2018)

Thanks for the responses everyone.


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## ConradHart (Apr 23, 2018)

Alcalaina said:


> Personally I think it would be madness to move to Spain on a permanent basis with no employment prospects, and give up all the financial benefits of residing in the UK, just because the weather is better and you like the lifestyle.
> 
> The option to come over for extended holidays sounds much more sensible. You'd have the best of both worlds.


So essentially what you´re saying is that you think it´s better to live on benefits whilst stuck in a cold house staring out of the window at the rain? 

Also I´m not really sure how the ´extended holidays´thing will work out. I guess I need to check the rules, as I haven´t been on benefits since the 90s.
I wonder can one ´move abroad for a month´etc. and still get UK benefits?

Back in the day you had to go into an office and speak to someone and sign a bit of paper (I think that was every 2 weeks and sometimes every week from memory) to ´prove you were looking for work´.


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

Benefits allow you to live in so far as you get rent paid and money for food and bills. Admittedly it is nothing more than that. If you want benefits but also want to able to live for a month in the sun then I imagine that most people would consider that a bit much ( mainly because you are meant to be looking for work and after Dec that cant be in EU). Spain would give you no help whatsoever as you would need a history of contributions. Even then it is nothing like as generous as UK system. If you wished to live in Spain you have around 3 weeks to start the process and for that you would need proof that you already had sufficient funds. If you have those funds then in theory I doubt you would qualify for UK benefits in the first place.


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## Nomoss (Nov 25, 2016)

It's curious how so many people here seem to understand that "benefits" are something one gets paid by the government


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

ConradHart said:


> . Ideally I´ll be able to find some way of working online mostly.
> Though I have no idea how that would work with regards to paying taxes in Spain and also getting onto the public health system as any ´company´is most likely to be from outside of Spain (more specifically the UK or USA).


If you think you'd be able to find a way of working online in Spain, most likely for a UK or USA company, what makes you think your prospects of finding the same kind of employment in the UK would be so poor that you'd be facing 20 years on benefits if you stayed there?


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## ConradHart (Apr 23, 2018)

Lynn R said:


> The advantages to arriving in Spain to live by 31 December 2020 and getting registered as a resident under the Withdrawal Agreement are that you would not have to meet the higher income requirements for a non-EU citizen which will apply to those arriving from 1 January 2021 onwards, when you become eligible for the UK state pension you would continue to receive annual uprating, and possibly the most important, when you start to receive your state pension you would be eligible for an S1 form meaning your healthcare costs would be met by the UK and you would pay only 10% of prescription costs (with a monthly cap of €8 if your income is below €18k per year or €18 if your income is between €18 - 100k) - provided the Spanish costs stay the same, that is. You may not consider these to be particularly relevant if you are a long way off pension age and would be able to meet the non-EU income requirements to register as a resident at a later date anyway.
> 
> I am from a Northern town myself, definitely no Downton Abbey antecedents! I moved here 14 years ago at the age of 50 but would never have come had I or my husband needed to look for work here. After we first bought our house we gradually got to know a few British people living locally and the majority of them were, as you say, living hand to mouth, working cash in hand (in some cases for as little as €5 per hour in bars or cleaning holiday accommodation), or running failing businesses. None of them seemed to be giviing much thought to what they would do once they reached retirement age as they weren't paying social security in Spain and wouldn't have had much of an NI contribution record in the UK. Things have not got any easier since then - especially now with the pandemic and years of economic pain to come so jobs are no easier to find. I really wouldn't recommend it until you can be sure you can be financially independent until your pension(s) become payable.


*NOTE: Hi. I stared just addressing your message but then ended up replying to pretty much everything I´ve read so leaving in the initial quote


The first paragraph is the kind of thing I was asking about in my OP. Which as you mention, is kind of a difficult thing to think about when you´re ´nowhere near pension age´.
Though the ´S1 form´ is certainly something to consider in the long term. As I suspect that retiring in Spain would be less plausible without the lower healthcare costs that that would bring.
Is the S1 form kind of like an extension of the EHIC (in monetary terms?). I once used my EHIC card to get a prescription as a temporary patient (after being burnt by walk in pharmacy prices on a previous EU visit) and though I don´t remember the exact discount, it seemed pretty high. . .possibly even something like the 90% as you described.

The Downton Abbey comment was perhaps a bit naughty of me, haha, but the sentiment remains. Generally people that ´live in the countryside´or at least have more affluent living conditions ´champagne socialists, politicians etc.or whoever else don´t actually live in the real world.
What I will say is that the whole ´head in the clouds, I´m going to live in the sun dream´ is often mentioned and talked about though the very real reverse of that is hardly ever mentioned:

That is to say a lot of people (this is general btw not aimed at you specifically) seem to have this skewed vision of what the UK is actually like. Much in the same way that the sun dreamers often look through rose tinted glasses I think the reverse is true and many have forgotten what an absolute ****hole the UK has become and it´s not a land of milk and honey where work is easy to find and living is good.
Has anyone here ever read The Idler book of Crap Towns or at least visited sites such as ilivethere ? I know a lot of what´s written seems almost tongue in cheek and almost comical in many regards, but for those that live in those places it´s also very real at the same time, I used to laugh when i read it, now I kind of shudder:

"If it wasn´t for the lack of Kalashnikovs one would think you were already living in a land where the Taliban were in complete control"

"Spiced up chavs on every street corner all ready to give you a smack in the chops if you dare to walk in their territory"

I have to say that during the past 10 years an area that i considered to be fairly decent has now turned into some kind of dirty lawless hell-hole and anywhere one would want to go has long since shut down and turned into something ´alien´.

Many of the problems one would find in Spain or other countries I think they would also find them to be true back at ´home´, perhaps maybe even worse in some cases.
I often think that people that talk about the cold in the flats in Spain forget how cold and damp it can actually be in England. I´ve spent much of the last few years there and unless you have your central heating on every waking moment (which then becomes as expensive if not more so that bills in Spain) it´s ABSOLUTELY FREEZING!

One thing that I actually edited out of original post (to try and shorten it a bit, jaja, semi-fail) was that I have actually lived and worked in Spain before living the very hand to mouth existence that you describe, so I´m well aware of it.
Plus I have what i would describe as GCSE Spanish level. I can get by pretty easily in the country.

It really is difficult. As it seems it´s going to be one of those decisions that you will regret making and again regret not making.
Spain would of course be very difficult, but then the alternative seems pretty horrific too. When I had a job I guess I just tolerated living there even though I knew it mostly sucked (kind of the trap most people fall into).
Since Covid and the ´long ´furlough holiday it´s been the opposite as I´ve obviously had too much to think.
Obviously the thought of heading to the dole office next year is mightily depressing and being paid by the state to have a ´comfortable and frugal´ life at home eating takeaways, playing X-Box and drinking at home doesn´t really sound too appealing especially as I head towards the big 50.


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## ConradHart (Apr 23, 2018)

Lynn R said:


> If you think you'd be able to find a way of working online in Spain, most likely for a UK or USA company, what makes you think your prospects of finding the same kind of employment in the UK would be so poor that you'd be facing 20 years on benefits if you stayed there?


I think the main point in working online is that you can conceivably work from anywhere you have your ´work set-up´ - laptop, internet connection and phone in the majority of cases - which is pretty much anywhere these days.
For example, I called my UK bank last month and the guy was working from home in India whilst his dog was barking in the background.

I think the real question should be. If I was able to find a job working online whilst I was in the UK, then why the heck would I even want to stay there?


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## Isobella (Oct 16, 2014)

I think you are suffering from the lockdowns. I would go and have a lie down if I were you.


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

ConradHart said:


> Though the ´S1 form´ is certainly something to consider in the long term. As I suspect that retiring in Spain would be less plausible without the lower healthcare costs that that would bring.
> Is the S1 form kind of like an extension of the EHIC (in monetary terms?). I once used my EHIC card to get a prescription as a temporary patient (after being burnt by walk in pharmacy prices on a previous EU visit) and though I don´t remember the exact discount, it seemed pretty high. . .possibly even something like the 90% as you described.


UK state pensioners who moved to Spain (or any other EU member state) before the end of the transition period can obtain an S1 form from the DWP (as can their spouse as their dependant, if he/she is below pension age themselves. This means that the UK pays Spain an annual sum per pensioner to cover their healthcare (around €4k per person I believe, at present). This has to be registered with the INSS who then issue a document confirming eligibility for Spanish public healthcare which allows the person to register with the health system in the autonomous region where they live, be allocated a doctor and nurse at their local health centre and access all the same health care services as a Spanish citizen. They are issued with a tarjeta sanitaria which has to be presented to access treatment and also allows pharmacies to read prescriptions and dispense medications. Prescription medicines are charged at 10% of the actual cost, with the monthly caps I mentioned before. In the Valencia region I believe pensioners don't pay anything towards the cost of prescriptions, at present. 

The Withdrawal Agreement also guarantees that UK citizens presently below state retirement age who move to an EU member state before the end of the transition period will be able to obtain an S1 when they become eligible for their state pension.


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

I am not sure what you are wanting. If you want to live and work in Spain you have very little time to get residency. I believe you can start the process online which seems to mean you dont need to be in Spain although I'm not sure which stage of the process you need to have completed by the end of this month to be able to get the extension. I would suggest contacting a gestor in the area you intend to live so you know what the requirements in your local office will be. You will however need a Spanish bank account with funds ( usually for 3 consecutive months)and 12 months healthcare. If you dont manage to do this you will face the Non EU requirements which are higher and require more paperwork


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## ConradHart (Apr 23, 2018)

Isobella said:


> I think you are suffering from the lockdowns. I would go and have a lie down if I were you.


But I´m not. I´m currently in Southern Spain where I am just about to go back out for the last hour or so of the 20c sun


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

So if you are already in Spain what is the problem?


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

Alcalaina said:


> But you are in Madrid where there are far more employment opportunities. In the sunny south, the unemployment rate is around 25% and that doesn't reflect that most jobs (70%??) are low-paid short-term contracts in agriculture or tourism.


 True, but that doesn't make it impossible. And anyway, the benefits of living in Spain can be enjoyed just as much from Madrid as they can from Costa XXX, in fact, some might say that it is better to live in the middle, I can be in Asturias or Bilbao in the same time that I can reach Almería.....

If the OP needs to fulfil some criteria quickly to obtain residency under the WA, what's to say that coming to Madrid isn't the best option? No waiting lists here to obtain the TIE either!


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

ConradHart said:


> So essentially what you´re saying is that you think it´s better to live on benefits whilst stuck in a cold house staring out of the window at the rain?


I didn't say "live on benefits". I was referring to all the financial benefits you yourself outlined in your original post, including free healthcare.

I've lived in Andalucia for over 12 years and believe me, I have spent many a day in a cold house (no central heating, no insulation) staring out at the rain. We do have winters here too you know - check the rainfall stats for November through March!

I'm fortunate in that I'm retired, own my house outright and don't have to worry about earning a living. If I couldn't afford the ridiculously expensive electricity needed to heat one room at a time in winter it wouldn't be much fun at all.


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

The way I see it is. If you are already in Spain and feel you satisfy the requirements for obtaining residency I would quickly try and get the process if not done then at least started( get a padron to prove you are actually living in Spain before 31st Dec)
Get your TIE, look for work, laze around, whatever. If it doesn't work out go back to UK and claim benefits. Try not to get too tanned though it might raise a few eyebrows in UK. Good luck.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

kaipa said:


> I am not sure what you are wanting. If you want to live and work in Spain you have very little time to get residency. I believe you can start the process online which seems to mean you don't need to be in Spain although I'm not sure which stage of the process you need to have completed by the end of this month to be able to get the extension.


You have to be in Spain when you or your gestor applies for residency online. I've just done the process and one of the forms I had to sign stated I was in Spain.


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## Isobella (Oct 16, 2014)

I am confused. I read it as if you were in the UK.


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

The thread is about applying for residency (with the cost / hassle this involves) and spending longer periods in Spain, against not obtaining it and be restricted to "tourist visa" restrictions as of next year. Quite simple really.

Where the OP is now is quite irrelevant IMHO.


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## ConradHart (Apr 23, 2018)

kaipa said:


> Benefits allow you to live in so far as you get rent paid and money for food and bills. Admittedly it is nothing more than that. If you want benefits but also want to able to live for a month in the sun then I imagine that most people would consider that a bit much ( mainly because you are meant to be looking for work and after Dec that cant be in EU). Spain would give you no help whatsoever as you would need a history of contributions. Even then it is nothing like as generous as UK system. If you wished to live in Spain you have around 3 weeks to start the process and for that you would need proof that you already had sufficient funds. *If you have those funds then in theory I doubt you would qualify for UK benefits in the first place.*


You actually make a very good point here. As I haven´t been unemployed or on any other kinds of UK benefits for so long, I didn´t consider the fact that (unlike furlough) they will be means tested.

So in effect I would be living in a rainy ****hole whilst slowly flitting away my savings. I may as well be doing that somewhere a bit, or lot more agreeable.


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

ConradHart said:


> You actually make a very good point here. As I haven´t been unemployed or on any other kinds of UK benefits for so long, I didn´t consider the fact that (unlike furlough) they will be means tested.
> 
> So in effect I would be living in a rainy ****hole whilst slowly flitting away my savings. I may as well be doing that somewhere a bit, or lot more agreeable.


Of course you can. Remember, though, when you return to UK you have to wait 3 months before you are eligible to claim anything


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## MataMata (Nov 30, 2008)

For the record you cannot just come to Spain work from home and say nothing although of course many do.

To do it legally you would need to set yourself up as “autónomo” and that would mean paying a “tarifa plana” or flat fee which currently stands at around €283 a month as a minimum.

That will give you access to Spain's public health system among other welfare benefits including contributions towards a state pension but has to be paid _regardless of whether an you had any monthly earnings_, and is _on top_ of other taxes.


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## ConradHart (Apr 23, 2018)

MataMata said:


> For the record you cannot just come to Spain work from home and say nothing although of course many do.
> 
> To do it legally you would need to *set yourself up as “autónomo” and that would mean paying a “tarifa plana”* or flat fee which currently stands at around €283 a month as a minimum.
> 
> That will give you access to Spain's public health system among other welfare benefits including contributions towards a state pension but has to be paid _regardless of whether an you had any monthly earnings_, and is _on top_ of other taxes.


Hi. As I understand ´autonomo´ basically means self employed.

But if I was working online for a company and not freelance or for myself what would happen then? Would that that still classed as being ´self-employed?


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

ConradHart said:


> Hi. As I understand ´autonomo´ basically means self employed.
> 
> But if I was working online for a company and not freelance or for myself what would happen then? Would that that still classed as being ´self-employed?


It depends on the contract you have with them. If the company pays your social security contributions, no problem. But increasingly they hire people on a freelance basis and then you have to register as autónomo.


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

ConradHart said:


> Hi. As I understand ´autonomo´ basically means self employed.
> 
> But if I was working online for a company and not freelance or for myself what would happen then? Would that that still classed as being ´self-employed?


If you worked online for a company you would be an employee. If the company was Spanish you would have a contract and pay NI contributions and would submit a tax form in June. If the company was UK then unless the company was willing to set up Spanish NI contributions etc( very unlikely unless you were worth gold to them) you would need to set yourself up as autonomo and find other clients as well. This unfortunately, as stated , means a fixed monthly payment which would eventually be around 270 euros a month ( irrespective of tax or even any income). Without it you would be considered to be working illegally and would also have no medical protection.


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## xicoalc (Apr 20, 2010)

ConradHart said:


> I think the main point in working online is that you can conceivably work from anywhere you have your ´work set-up´ - laptop, internet connection and phone in the majority of cases - which is pretty much anywhere these days.
> For example, I called my UK bank last month and the guy was working from home in India whilst his dog was barking in the background.
> 
> I think the real question should be. If I was able to find a job working online whilst I was in the UK, then why the heck would I even want to stay there?


Hi,

Not been on the forums for years but thought I would have a little peek and saw this one and hope you don´t mind me butting in. Its been a couple of weeks so I presume you have made some decisions now but for you, and the benefit of others I thought I would give my two penneth worth!

RE: Working online. Many of us expats have done (or tried) the "work online from home" thing and for some it works and for most no. The example you gave about a bank may well be true but the guy in India is not working for X bank in the UK from his house in India. He will be working for an Indian company and probably works normally in a call centre there but is working at home maybe at the moment for Covid reasons like so many of us are or have been.

I think it will be almost impossible to work for (for example) a UK bank form your home in Spain. These people have to attend training, meetings and so on and most businesses don´t simply look for home workers who live anywhere in the world. Some do but as others have said, to be legal in Spain, that company would either need a Spanish branch that they employ you through or they would need to register to employ you through the Spanish system. Otherwise, if you are permanently resident then you would need to be self employed and invoice them for the work you do.

Now, I can perhaps see a situation where a long standing loyal employee wants to move abroad and the employer wants to keep them so they reach a compromise or agreement to work out ways to get them employed in Spain and everyone wins but when it comes to normal recruitment, most UK companies would rather seek out UK staff rather than looking for more admin/costs and hassle of employing someone overseas.

Of course there are opportunities out there but for every 100 "work from home" jobs that you see, probably only 1 of those will be genuinely suitable for your needs in terms of where you live etc and believe me, with the huge numbers of Brits abroad, the demand for those jobs will be high.

Being self employed is, frankly, brutal in Spain unless you have some guaranteed contracts. Social security payments are high,IRPF, IVA, Accountancy feed and so on all take their chunk and form experience, I used to bring in at the end of the month about half of what I was actually billing my clients after I had paid all my costs. I got out of being self employed in Spain over ten years ago when I was offered a permanent contract with a Spanish company but again, opportunities to get real good jobs in Spain are few and far between until you are well and truly integrated, speak the language and of course have something more to offer than the other five thousand in the queue for the job!

If you have savings then, as you said, you may not be entitled to benefits in the UK but you know that when you have spent them staring out of the window there is a system to fall back on, you will get benefits, you will always have a roof over your head and you will have a healthcare system and,when the time comes, social care and support. As others have said, in Spain you won´t get one single euro in benefits until you have contributed for a considerable period. Even then, once you have the rights to full "paro" (dole), it will be limited to a % of your income with a capped limit in terms of amount and time payable.

If you, or anyone else wants to come to Spain now or any time in the future then it´s vital to consider everything at worst case scenario and then ask "can I make it work in those circumstances?".

If you have the money to support yourself, you have a plan in concrete for when that money runs out, you have a plan for healthcare etc then go for it. But, only you knows your true personal circumstances and sadly, over the many years I have been here, I have seen so many come based on that little feeling inside that "i´ll get work" or "it´ll be ok" and later fail miserably, only to find themselves returning to the UK with their tails between their legs and struggling to re-establish themselves again back there.

Whatever you do, I hope it all works out for you


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