# Overseas Child passport



## highfive (Jul 12, 2012)

I am British citizen I have applied for a British passport for my newborn on October 2013 almost 7 month and so far no progress on the application. Whenever I call to find out the progress I get call back from the Durham office to tell me they are still doing checks.

Wife has a spouse visa since September 2013 to enter UK but because of the newborn she can't leave.
Is there any other way I can bring my child to the UK without a passport other than wait forever?


----------



## Hertsfem (Jun 19, 2013)

Can't you get an emergency travel document?


----------



## Crawford (Jan 23, 2011)

Have you asked them what checks they are doing?

Are you born and bred British, naturalized or anything out of the ordinary with regards your "Britishness."?

Your child was born in Egypt - maybe this is where the checks are holding things up?


----------



## highfive (Jul 12, 2012)

Crawford said:


> Have you asked them what checks they are doing?
> 
> Are you born and bred British, naturalized or anything out of the ordinary with regards your "Britishness."?
> 
> Your child was born in Egypt - maybe this is where the checks are holding things up?



I am naturalized British citizen 
They are not allowed to give out information on what checks they are doing all they say to me is checks have not been completed and it could take long


----------



## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Let's see. So you are British otherwise than by descent (being naturalised in UK) and your wife is a non-UK citizen (Egyptian, from your previous post), and your child is British by descent for being born outside UK and overseas territories (in Egypt). You should have sent in your original certificate of naturalisation and your child's birth certificate showing you as the father. You don't need your marriage certificate as parents' marriage is no longer needed to pass on nationality, though they may have asked for it. Has the birth certificate been professionally translated? Or did you manage to deposit the original certificate with the General Register Office through the Foreign Office before the facility was withdrawn at the end of 2013? This would get you a British birth certificate. Then the countersignature. This can often be difficult to obtain for a child born overseas and they will want to verify and speak to the countersignatory. Other than those, I can't for the life of me think of any other areas of inquiry and investigation.


----------



## highfive (Jul 12, 2012)

Joppa said:


> Let's see. So you are British otherwise than by descent (being naturalised in UK) and your wife is a non-UK citizen (Egyptian, from your previous post), and your child is British by descent for being born outside UK and overseas territories (in Egypt). You should have sent in your original certificate of naturalisation and your child's birth certificate showing you as the father. You don't need your marriage certificate as parents' marriage is no longer needed to pass on nationality, though they may have asked for it. Has the birth certificate been professionally translated? Or did you manage to deposit the original certificate with the General Register Office through the Foreign Office before the facility was withdrawn at the end of 2013? This would get you a British birth certificate. Then the countersignature. This can often be difficult to obtain for a child born overseas and they will want to verify and speak to the countersignatory. Other than those, I can't for the life of me think of any other areas of inquiry and investigation.


I have provided all the required document translated including my passport and naturalisation certificate because of the length it is taking I wanted to find out if there is another route


----------



## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

No. The HMPO (passport office) are the only people able to issue the passport.


----------



## highfive (Jul 12, 2012)

Is there a way I can apply for a visa to bring my child to the uk whilst still waiting for the British passport application?


----------



## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

If your child has another nationality, you can bring them on a visa (if a visa national) or just with their foreign passport. Once here, you can apply for their British passport which shouldn't take too long (in weeks rather than months).


----------



## highfive (Jul 12, 2012)

Joppa said:


> If your child has another nationality, you can bring them on a visa (if a visa national) or just with their foreign passport. Once here, you can apply for their British passport which shouldn't take too long (in weeks rather than months).


If i get my child a foreign passport what kind of visa do i need to apply?


----------



## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Just a visit visa. A lot of British parents do it for dual-national children.


----------



## Hertsfem (Jun 19, 2013)

So Joppa are you saying that if my grandsons passport is not through before his mothers spouse visa we can apply for a Zim passport and a visitors visa? what about proof that he will go back (as he won't be going back)
Can he not just have an emergency travel doc?


----------



## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

ECO and immigration officer at UK border understand this and will allow dual-national children to arrive on visitor visa, even if they will settle in UK. You should still travel with documentary evidence of the child's entitlement to British passport such as the child and parent's birth certificate, marriage certificate etc. This is possible because UK doesn't require British citizens to enter only on British passport, unlike US for its citizens.


----------



## Hertsfem (Jun 19, 2013)

Having already sent in the passport application and stating on the forms that he does not hold another passport. Would it be a good idea to now get one and enter with a visitors visa or would it look bad regarding his passport application?

The entitlement that he has is the certificate of registration which is now with the passport application, we only hold a copy...


----------



## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

It's up to you. People change their plans all the time so that doesn't matter.


----------



## Hertsfem (Jun 19, 2013)

Thanks Joppa, they state that his British passport will take up to 6 weeks so hopefully it won't be a problem x


----------



## highfive (Jul 12, 2012)

Joppa said:


> ECO and immigration officer at UK border understand this and will allow dual-national children to arrive on visitor visa, even if they will settle in UK. You should still travel with documentary evidence of the child's entitlement to British passport such as the child and parent's birth certificate, marriage certificate etc. This is possible because UK doesn't require British citizens to enter only on British passport, unlike US for its citizens.



Still waiting for both passports the backlog in UK gave me the chance to apply for Emergency travel document for my son from the British embassy but for some reason the passport office in UK refused.
British Embassy saying they would refused visit visa for my son if I applied with different passport because he is British
Its now almost 11 months waiting for the child British passport there is no end here.


----------



## Hertsfem (Jun 19, 2013)

Where did you apply for the childs passport? inside or outside the UK?

We applied for my grandson at the end of May and got asked for further documents which we sent. Have you tried emailing them?

Funny you should mention this as my DIL has just emailed them asking if she can get an ETD for him as her spouse visa won't be much longer now. She also asked if she would have to withdraw that application if applying for an ETD etc.

Hope to hear back early next week.

Incidently the waiting time shot up from 6 weeks to 18 weeks from Zimbabwe...


----------



## highfive (Jul 12, 2012)

Applied from outside uk on october 2013
Few weeks ago they said they were still doing checks


----------



## Hertsfem (Jun 19, 2013)

That's a very long time indeed


----------



## will1927 (Sep 21, 2013)

hi, I am in the same position as you, almost 6 month waiting for overseas 1st child's passports. all overseas passport now have to follow the same process as uk ones, all the documents which have been sent, have to be checked with the country from where they have been sent, also in some case an interview is required..

i don't understand, as the visa4uk online web page, it ask for your dependents passport number. how could you submit your application with out passport number...

the reason why i ask, is i am waiting for my kids passports before i submit our application..

will


----------



## Hertsfem (Jun 19, 2013)

When my DIL applied she put "passport pending" and the put an explanation in the notes...


----------



## will1927 (Sep 21, 2013)

Hertsfem said:


> When my DIL applied she put "passport pending" and the put an explanation in the notes...


hi, I was under the impression that if you did not supply a uk passport number that the eco would put a hold your visa application. also what is the chance that your uk passport is granted or not granted, every one is different...also didn't you have prove that you were applying for British passport

didn't the vis4uk web site, not make you pay for your child's visa, as from that time of application there not British citizens..

british overseas 1st childs passports are taking 6-9 months at present time 

will


----------



## Hertsfem (Jun 19, 2013)

Why were you under that impression? The child is a citizen so why should the passport be refused? We sent a copy of the childs citizenship document. The child did not need a visa as he is a citizen of UK. Yes he was a citizen at the time of application.

I think the processing time depends on which country you are applying from..


----------



## will1927 (Sep 21, 2013)

Hertsfem said:


> Why were you under that impression? The child is a citizen so why should the passport be refused? We sent a copy of the childs citizenship document. The child did not need a visa as he is a citizen of UK. Yes he was a citizen at the time of application.
> 
> I think the processing time depends on which country you are applying from..


you say passport was pending, how can someone be a British citizen without a british passport, my 2 children are born in the Philippines to a British father from birth(me) and a Filipino mother, they have been registered with the British embassy in manila and have British birth certificates. they are not British until they get there british passport.

I am guessing that you supplied citizen documents when you applied for your visa, I don't have these documents, as I am apply under British decent.

will


----------



## Hertsfem (Jun 19, 2013)

Ok it's a different set of circumstances then. We applied for citizenship for him and he was awarded a certificate of citizenship, a copy of which we included in the application for his mothers visa.


----------



## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Some are automatically British from birth, like your two children, and some aren't British but can register as British, and will become a citizen from when their application is decided upon and relevant document sent (such as registration certificate). 
In your children's case, getting their passport didn't MAKE them British. They are already British so were entitled to get their passport.


----------



## Hertsfem (Jun 19, 2013)

will where are you getting those processing times from?


----------



## will1927 (Sep 21, 2013)

Joppa said:


> Some are automatically British from birth, like your two children, and some aren't British but can register as British, and will become a citizen from when their application is decided upon and relevant document sent (such as registration certificate).
> In your children's case, getting their passport didn't MAKE them British. They are already British so were entitled to get their passport.


hi, you say that some are automatic from birth, funny when I was talked to passport office they told me they are not British citizen until they get there passports. but I have read that somewhere as well. also what proof would they have of being British citizen if they do not have a British passport??. the passport and citizen rules have changed over the last year, if your married or not married, if you were there at the time of the birth or not.

I have a friend who was is not married to his girl friend and missed his son birth and they are wanting a DNA test.

what I am saying every application is different, but I know my kids are british.

will


----------



## will1927 (Sep 21, 2013)

Hertsfem said:


> will where are you getting those processing times from?


hi,

We applied online Feb 24th

Documents sent March 19th and received on the 20th.
was Called by the Passport Office, EQA team on May 7th. They started the application on this date. almost 2 months later. 

The EQA team called me and told me they still need more documents. I told them I sent everything which was required on the list. They want Cenomars(philipine document) and a letter from me stating if I had or have not any other children and a complete scan of me and my passport, including the empty pages. I only sent the stamped pages and bio page. This was sent the next day and received by the them 2 days later.

It finally moved from the EQA team 2 months later (July) and now is with the security team. This team check every document which has been sent. I have been calling them every week but things have not moved. They told me that it could take up to 6-9 months.

Once it moves from the security team and all the documents are ok, an interview will be required, and after that the passport will be sent with that week.


----------



## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Well, it's a question of facts vs documentary evidence. Anyone can claim they are British, and if they actually are by birth or descent, then they are British but nobody takes them seriously until they can show official document confirming it, such as passport. What I am saying is some people are automatically British and others are not until they apply for it through registration (such as those born abroad prior to 1983 to a British mother).


----------



## Hertsfem (Jun 19, 2013)

will1927 said:


> hi,
> 
> We applied online Feb 24th
> 
> ...


I guess they have to make sure that the child IS in fact your child. Whereas in our case this has already been done
.
I was unaware that you could apply for childs first passport online (although that may vary from country to country)

This is where I found the processing times. 


https://www.gov.uk/overseas-passports

I wonder why they would not give you an ETD or a visa for the children as they state on the site that childrens fist passport can in fact get an ETD

My DIL has emailed them so hopefully we shall hear in the next few days, if not then my son shall phone...


----------



## will1927 (Sep 21, 2013)

Joppa said:


> Well, it's a question of facts vs documentary evidence. Anyone can claim they are British, and if they actually are by birth or descent, then they are British but nobody takes them seriously until they can show official document confirming it, such as passport. What I am saying is some people are automatically British and others are not until they apply for it through registration (such as those born abroad prior to 1983 to a British mother).


technically you are right, but in the eyes of the law your wrong!

facts does give them entry in to the uk
facts does not give them an emergency passport in the case they need to leave the country they live in.


----------



## will1927 (Sep 21, 2013)

Hertsfem said:


> I guess they have to make sure that the child IS in fact your child. Whereas in our case this has already been done
> .
> I was unaware that you could apply for childs first passport online (although that may vary from country to country)
> 
> ...


yes your right they, but we have been through these checks at the British embassy in manila, when they were both registered and given a British birth certificate. I guess that a British birth certificate does not make the process of checking any quicker.

unable to get a ETD as you need proof of citizenship, and we are applying for a visa for my wife but need uk passport number....so we need to wait for them. 

all overseas passport now are done online, and processed in Liverpool from January this year, with the price drop of passports it has caused huge delays.

https://www.gov.uk/overseas-passports

will


----------



## Hertsfem (Jun 19, 2013)

will1927 said:


> yes your right they, but we have been through these checks at the British embassy in manila, when they were both registered and given a British birth certificate. I guess that a British birth certificate does not make the process of checking any quicker.
> 
> unable to get a ETD as you need proof of citizenship, and we are applying for a visa for my wife but need uk passport number....so we need to wait for them.
> 
> ...


That is the same link that I posted. Not all passports are done online and processed in Liverpool as my grandsons was done manually and sent to Durham.

We got an email from them today asking for copies of my DIL's passport (at the time of his conception) they want all the pages but did not say this in the first email 

Like I asked earlier, why can't you apply and put a note that the childrens passport is pending? That is what we did...


----------



## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

will1927 said:


> technically you are right, but in the eyes of the law your wrong!
> 
> facts does give them entry in to the uk
> facts does not give them an emergency passport in the case they need to leave the country they live in.


You are talking rubbish.


----------



## will1927 (Sep 21, 2013)

Joppa said:


> You are talking rubbish.


ok, if I am talking rubbish explain how my children come to the uk without a passport....your the expert, I am all ears


----------



## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

But they had another passport and you brought along sufficient evidence of British nationality?
Remember the immigration officer didn't allow your children to enter as British citizens but as foreign nationals with leave to enter. What kind of stamp was placed in their passport at UK border?


----------



## Hertsfem (Jun 19, 2013)

Durham have lost his passport photos 

Now they want a fresh set countersigned by the same person who just happens to be away until Saturday! 

That means they will have to be sent by courier on Monday which will take another 3 days Grrrrr (not to mention the expense)

They seem to be side stepping the question of an ETD


----------



## andrie (Jun 19, 2014)

Hertsfem said:


> Durham have lost his passport photos
> 
> Now they want a fresh set countersigned by the same person who just happens to be away until Saturday!
> 
> ...


Surely how can they lose passport photos? Ah well just send another ones quick and all the best:fingerscrossed:


----------



## Hertsfem (Jun 19, 2013)

andrie said:


> Surely how can they lose passport photos? Ah well just send another ones quick and all the best:fingerscrossed:



Thanks Adrie, it beggers belief 

My son said he put the documents into the envelope together with his dad and the photos were there! I remember him commenting that the little one was facing te side slightly and I sent him the link which stated that is acceptable for child up to 6 years old 

Yeah well no point crying over it. Hope we hear from the nice lady in Harare tomorrow about the ETD...


----------



## andrie (Jun 19, 2014)

Hertsfem said:


> Thanks Adrie, it beggers belief
> 
> My son said he put the documents into the envelope together with his dad and the photos were there! I remember him commenting that the little one was facing te side slightly and I sent him the link which stated that is acceptable for child up to 6 years old
> 
> Yeah well no point crying over it. Hope we hear from the nice lady in Harare tomorrow about the ETD...


Good to hear. I think I will apply for my daughter`s ETD, then once she is here we then apply for her passport. Just to reduce the amount of waiting stress.


----------



## Hertsfem (Jun 19, 2013)

Apart from losing the passport photos and saying they have never received the copies of my DIL's passport at the time of conception ( which was emailed to them over a week ago)
they have now said my grandson cannot have an ETD (no reasons given)

My son is going to phone them again this morning to ask about the documents they say they don't have! 

This is becoming a nightmare. Next stop contact local MP I recon :fencing:


----------



## Ob111 (May 23, 2014)

Hertsfem said:


> Apart from losing the passport photos and saying they have never received the copies of my DIL's passport at the time of conception ( which was emailed to them over a week ago) they have now said my grandson cannot have an ETD (no reasons given) My son is going to phone them again this morning to ask about the documents they say they don't have! This is becoming a nightmare. Next stop contact local MP I recon :fencing:


Sooo sorry to hear this Hertsfem.... But with Durham am not shocked... Even an application within the UK was long.... But I'm confused cause you said your grandson is registered as a british citizen. Why so much checks again? What has d passport details during his conception have to do with anything?


----------



## Hertsfem (Jun 19, 2013)

Ob111 said:


> Sooo sorry to hear this Hertsfem.... But with Durham am not shocked... Even an application within the UK was long.... But I'm confused cause you said your grandson is registered as a british citizen. Why so much checks again? What has d passport details during his conception have to do with anything?


Thanks Oby, when we first applied it was 3 - 5 weeks then jumped to 18 weeks.

Yes he was registered as a British citizen as my son is British by descent. You would have thought they would have done all the background checks they needed already for the citizenship.

One person at Durham said they are doing background checks and on an email they said they cannot proceed with the application until they have the photos.

To be honest I don't think the right knows what the left is doing.

My son phoned Durham this morning and they are phoning him back this afternoon :fingerscrossed:

Maybe they want the passports to prove they were in the same country at the time of his conception? the mind boggles haha


----------



## Hertsfem (Jun 19, 2013)

Sorry, what I meant was we were able to *apply* for citizenship for him which cost £800 and it was accepted. Not that we simply registered him...


----------



## Ob111 (May 23, 2014)

Hertsfem said:


> Sorry, what I meant was we were able to apply for citizenship for him which cost £800 and it was accepted. Not that we simply registered him...


Ohhh ok, i was confused as how a citizen by descent passed on citizenship... Sooo they have done all the checks already since they granted him the citizenship.. Am sure they will send it soon.. But am confused how they lose a passport photo.. Better that, than they put another face on it.


----------



## Hertsfem (Jun 19, 2013)

A child born overseas to a parent who is British by descent may be registered as British providing one or both of the parents lived in UK for a minimum of 3 years prior to the childs birth and did not leave the UK for a total exceeding 280 days during that period (this of course has to be proven)

This is how we applied..

You are quite right in saying better to send more photos than have someone elses lol I have read that this has happened recently


----------



## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

It's 270 days under Section 3(2).


----------



## Hertsfem (Jun 19, 2013)

Joppa said:


> It's 270 days under Section 3(2).


Ok I was close


----------



## Hertsfem (Jun 19, 2013)

Harare have agreed to the ETD :cheer2:


----------



## andrie (Jun 19, 2014)

Thats great news. Please update us on what docs are needed etc


----------



## Hertsfem (Jun 19, 2013)

andrie said:


> Thats great news. Please update us on what docs are needed etc


Ok she is going up tomorrow and has to take him with her. They said to bring copies of the docs she sent to Durham. Will update tomorrow :fingerscrossed:


----------



## andrie (Jun 19, 2014)

Any update Hertsfem?


----------



## Hertsfem (Jun 19, 2013)

Well yes! My DIL too the little one to Harare where she filled in the forms and gave them copies of all documents she had, including the flight confirmation.

The woman was very helpful and was going to do the ETD but the boss was there from Pretoria and somehow got involved. She said the documents would have to be emailed to Durham to confirm they are the same as the ones they have there.

They said they cannot guarantee as it now all hinges on the response from Durham.

My son is going to call them tomorrow.

What a fiasco


----------



## andrie (Jun 19, 2014)

Hertsfem said:


> Well yes! My DIL too the little one to Harare where she filled in the forms and gave them copies of all documents she had, including the flight confirmation.
> 
> The woman was very helpful and was going to do the ETD but the boss was there from Pretoria and somehow got involved. She said the documents would have to be emailed to Durham to confirm they are the same as the ones they have there.
> 
> ...


Good luck hey you are very close now.

I will apply for my daughter ETD when i go to South Africa next month.


----------



## Hertsfem (Jun 19, 2013)

andrie said:


> Good luck hey you are very close now.
> 
> I will apply for my daughter ETD when i go to South Africa next month.


Thanks, however if the ETD is not through we shall have to reschedule the flights (at a cost) or worse still if they turn it down 

I'll let you know when we hear something


----------



## Hertsfem (Jun 19, 2013)

She got the ETD for my grandson!!!

Eeish that was one hell of a mission :confused2:


----------



## andrie (Jun 19, 2014)

Yippeeee thank God. Now I know its possible. They flying 2moro ryt?


----------



## Hertsfem (Jun 19, 2013)

andrie said:


> Yippeeee thank God. Now I know its possible. They flying 2moro ryt?



Yeah they flying tomorrow morning so it's a tight schedule from here on. Eeish but that was very hard work!

Asking for photos of my son and myself together from birth till recent etc. Just as well I was online and able to dig some out. I would have thought they would have asked all of those questions when we applied for his citizenship rather than now lol


----------



## andrie (Jun 19, 2014)

What? They asked for ur photos as well?


----------



## Hertsfem (Jun 19, 2013)

andrie said:


> What? They asked for ur photos as well?


Yes they sent him an email saying "you claim you have British citizenship through your mother" can you please provide photos of you both together throughout you life  also any shared documents (we ignored that one)

Photos of my DIL when she was pregnant
Photos of them both with the baby throughout the two and a half years of his life
They asked my son for proof of where he is living
Where his first British passport was issued and how old he was
Why he went back to Zim
If he had residence in Zim and to email a document confirming this etc etc etc

7 long hours she was there with her toddler as they wanted to see him again too.
On the bus now back home for 3 hours, pack and say cheers to as many as she can and leaving again at 4am to travel to the airport


----------



## andrie (Jun 19, 2014)

Hey guys, i emailed Pretoria today seeking information of my daughter's ETD and here was their response.

Thank you for the email.

This is the list of documents required :

The baby's full birth certificate: this is the one with both parents details (please note this has to be the original)
Original Naturalisation Certificate (of the parents)
No need for a marriage certificate
Two forms of photographic ID for both parents (ID, Passport and Driving licence will be sufficient).
Letters of consent from both biological parents
2 passport size photos for the baby.
Also confirmed travel booking .

Please ensure you have compiled the necessary documents prior to submitting the application as we will be unable to accept an incomplete application. We will also need to see the baby and at least one biological parents in person at the British High Commission in Pretoria between 8 and 12 Monday to Thursday.

Should you require any further guidance or assistance please don’t hesitate to contact me at your convenience.

Regards


----------



## Hertsfem (Jun 19, 2013)

andrie said:


> Hey guys, i emailed Pretoria today seeking information of my daughter's ETD and here was their response.
> 
> Thank you for the email.
> 
> ...



Yes that list is similar to what we had to provide. Be prepared for a shed load more photos though so suggest whoever goes to the High Commission take a tablet or something with all kinds of family photos on. 

Have you already booked your flight? I did not think you had the spouse visa yet?


----------



## andrie (Jun 19, 2014)

Flight will be booked as soon as my fiancee visa is issued. We will apply end of this month


----------



## Hertsfem (Jun 19, 2013)

Good luck - keep us posted :fingerscrossed:


----------



## Hertsfem (Jun 19, 2013)

Ok my grandsons passport has finally been issued!!!

It took roughly three and a half months. 

The only problem is that they have ignored the request to send it to my son in UK and seems they have sent it to Harare


----------



## fergie (Oct 4, 2010)

If there is someone at the address in Harare to receive it, then get them to DHL it to the address where it is needed, it should be safe enough that way.


----------



## Hertsfem (Jun 19, 2013)

fergie said:


> If there is someone at the address in Harare to receive it, then get them to DHL it to the address where it is needed, it should be safe enough that way.


The passport and supporting documents have to be picked up at the British High Commission in Harare...


----------



## Hertsfem (Jun 19, 2013)

Durham have emailed back to say when the passport arrives in Harare to ask them to forward it back to the UK address. Hope this all goes to plan :fingerscrossed:


----------



## Hertsfem (Jun 19, 2013)

The passport has arrived in Harare and they are going to send it back via DHL


----------

