# US taxes: Married to a NRA?



## Bevdeforges

For those American expats married to a foreigner (referred to by the US government as “non-resident aliens” or NRAs), there are a few points to be aware of when it comes to filing your US taxes. (Note that non-resident means that *you and your spouse are living outside the US.* If you're both living in the US, you're both subject to US taxation and can file like any American couple.)

While there is an election to file jointly with your NRA spouse (usually in the year your spouse arrives in the US or departs from the US), you want to consider carefully whether or not to use this option. *If you elect to treat your NRA spouse as a US resident for tax purposes, you both lose the ability to take the FEIE (to exclude earned income made while living abroad).*

Most US citizens married to NRAs file as “married, filing separately” although there are certain disadvantages to this category, too (mainly, the very low filing threshold - $3700 for 2011 returns - which doesn’t increase when you hit age 65). Filing separately will also subject more of your Social Security benefits (if you’re retired and drawing SS benefits) to taxation.

Your NRA spouse *does not need to have a social security number,* nor an ITIN (International Taxpayer Identification Number) *if they are not subject to US taxation *as long as you are not claiming them as a dependent. (See the rules for claiming a spouse as a dependent, too. It s not easy to do.) *If you qualify to claim your children as dependents* on your tax returns, *they will need to have either SS numbers or ITINs*, which should be obtained before you file your returns. It may be possible (and slightly advantageous) to file as Head of Household if you have minor children you can claim as your dependents.

If your NRA spouse does not have an ITIN and is not subject to filing US taxes, just fill in “NRA” on your Form 1040 where it asks for the Social Security number of your spouse. (This may keep you from being able to use some tax preparation software and online tax preparation services.)

Read the instructions in *Publication 54 *carefully. You normally do NOT have to declare any of your NRA spouse’s earnings (salary, etc.) on your US tax returns. When filing as the US spouse of an NRA please also take a look at the thread here on “Declaring Foreign Financial Assets” which discusses some new regs that may affect the reporting of financial accounts you hold jointly with your NRA spouse.


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## rchappx

great info, thanks


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## greyowl

Does FEIE apply to self-employed earnings if you are a professional working on a contract basis for something like a school?


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## Madonna

How does one file U.S. tax returns with self-employed earnings, if it is derived from a business in one's home repairing vehicles? The business is incorporated with only the owner/operator running it. Can he just file, reporting self-employed earnings? Or does he also have to file for his business located in Canada with no ties to the U.S.?


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## Bevdeforges

greyowl said:


> Does FEIE apply to self-employed earnings if you are a professional working on a contract basis for something like a school?


Normally, yes, "self-employed" earnings are treated as "salary" for FEIE purposes. If you're on a contract basis and being compensated for expenses, you may want to consider filing a Schedule C to deduct your expenses.
Cheers,
Bev


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## Bevdeforges

Madonna said:


> How does one file U.S. tax returns with self-employed earnings, if it is derived from a business in one's home repairing vehicles? The business is incorporated with only the owner/operator running it. Can he just file, reporting self-employed earnings? Or does he also have to file for his business located in Canada with no ties to the U.S.?


If the business is incorporated in Canada, then whatever the taxpayer is paid as "salary" is considered earned income as far as the FEIE is concerned - as long as it can be justified as compensation for his services. If he's paying into the Canadian "social security" system, then he shouldn't be liable for US social security.

If the business is incorporated, does that mean that the business pays income taxes on its earnings, with the "salary" of the owner/operator as one of the business expenses? In that case, he isn't really "self-employed" - he's actually an employee of the corporation.
Cheers,
Bev


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## Madonna

*Thanks!*



Bevdeforges said:


> If the business is incorporated in Canada, then whatever the taxpayer is paid as "salary" is considered earned income as far as the FEIE is concerned - as long as it can be justified as compensation for his services. If he's paying into the Canadian "social security" system, then he shouldn't be liable for US social security.
> 
> If the business is incorporated, does that mean that the business pays income taxes on its earnings, with the "salary" of the owner/operator as one of the business expenses? In that case, he isn't really "self-employed" - he's actually an employee of the corporation.
> Cheers,
> Bev


Thanks, Bev. That helps a lot. You've been a beacon of common sense and information for me during this whole struggle to comply with our newly discovered U.S. filing obligations.


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## Jeanne2

*us citizen married to a canadian*



Bevdeforges said:


> For those American expats married to a foreigner (referred to by the US government as “non-resident aliens” or NRAs), there are a few points to be aware of when it comes to filing your US taxes. (Note that non-resident means that *you and your spouse are living outside the US.* If you're both living in the US, you're both subject to US taxation and can file like any American couple.)
> 
> While there is an election to file jointly with your NRA spouse (usually in the year your spouse arrives in the US or departs from the US), you want to consider carefully whether or not to use this option. *If you elect to treat your NRA spouse as a US resident for tax purposes, you both lose the ability to take the FEIE (to exclude earned income made while living abroad).*
> 
> Most US citizens married to NRAs file as “married, filing separately” although there are certain disadvantages to this category, too (mainly, the very low filing threshold - $3700 for 2011 returns - which doesn’t increase when you hit age 65). Filing separately will also subject more of your Social Security benefits (if you’re retired and drawing SS benefits) to taxation.
> 
> Your NRA spouse *does not need to have a social security number,* nor an ITIN (International Taxpayer Identification Number) *if they are not subject to US taxation *as long as you are not claiming them as a dependent. (See the rules for claiming a spouse as a dependent, too. It s not easy to do.) *If you qualify to claim your children as dependents* on your tax returns, *they will need to have either SS numbers or ITINs*, which should be obtained before you file your returns. It may be possible (and slightly advantageous) to file as Head of Household if you have minor children you can claim as your dependents.
> 
> If your NRA spouse does not have an ITIN and is not subject to filing US taxes, just fill in “NRA” on your Form 1040 where it asks for the Social Security number of your spouse. (This may keep you from being able to use some tax preparation software and online tax preparation services.)
> 
> Read the instructions in *Publication 54 *carefully. You normally do NOT have to declare any of your NRA spouse’s earnings (salary, etc.) on your US tax returns. When filing as the US spouse of an NRA please also take a look at the thread here on “Declaring Foreign Financial Assets” which discusses some new regs that may affect the reporting of financial accounts you hold jointly with your NRA spouse.


Hi I have just found out about having to file my us taxes I have lived in canda for 40 years and never knew about it I came up with my parents when I was 14 and I have a landed immigrant card all these years.. my question is my husband inherited some money from his parents and he is afraid if I file my taxes in the us they will try and get his inheritance. could you please tell me if this is true?I was not named a benificary in the will, but it shows going into our bank account that we hold jointly.
thank you 
Jeanne


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## Jeanne2

ps I am losing sleep over this and my stomach is in knotts all the time. please help!
Jeanne


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## Jeanne2

Bevdeforges said:


> For those American expats married to a foreigner (referred to by the US government as “non-resident aliens” or NRAs), there are a few points to be aware of when it comes to filing your US taxes. (Note that non-resident means that *you and your spouse are living outside the US.* If you're both living in the US, you're both subject to US taxation and can file like any American couple.)
> 
> While there is an election to file jointly with your NRA spouse (usually in the year your spouse arrives in the US or departs from the US), you want to consider carefully whether or not to use this option. *If you elect to treat your NRA spouse as a US resident for tax purposes, you both lose the ability to take the FEIE (to exclude earned income made while living abroad).*
> 
> Most US citizens married to NRAs file as “married, filing separately” although there are certain disadvantages to this category, too (mainly, the very low filing threshold - $3700 for 2011 returns - which doesn’t increase when you hit age 65). Filing separately will also subject more of your Social Security benefits (if you’re retired and drawing SS benefits) to taxation.
> 
> Your NRA spouse *does not need to have a social security number,* nor an ITIN (International Taxpayer Identification Number) *if they are not subject to US taxation *as long as you are not claiming them as a dependent. (See the rules for claiming a spouse as a dependent, too. It s not easy to do.) *If you qualify to claim your children as dependents* on your tax returns, *they will need to have either SS numbers or ITINs*, which should be obtained before you file your returns. It may be possible (and slightly advantageous) to file as Head of Household if you have minor children you can claim as your dependents.
> 
> If your NRA spouse does not have an ITIN and is not subject to filing US taxes, just fill in “NRA” on your Form 1040 where it asks for the Social Security number of your spouse. (This may keep you from being able to use some tax preparation software and online tax preparation services.)
> 
> Read the instructions in *Publication 54 *carefully. You normally do NOT have to declare any of your NRA spouse’s earnings (salary, etc.) on your US tax returns. When filing as the US spouse of an NRA please also take a look at the thread here on “Declaring Foreign Financial Assets” which discusses some new regs that may affect the reporting of financial accounts you hold jointly with your NRA spouse.


what is publication 54 and how do I find it to read?
Jeanne


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## Bevdeforges

When you file taxes as the spouse of a NRA you file as "married, filing separately" and only YOUR income is subject to reporting and tax. You do NOT have to declare half of your spouse's income and in any event an inheritance wouldn't count as income anyhow.

You probably will have to report your joint interest in the bank account(s) held with your husband - but that's a separate form, filed with the Treasury Department and is, quite literally, just an "information report" without tax implications.

All US tax forms and publications are available online from the IRS website Internal Revenue Service Publication 54 is here: http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p54.pdf
Cheers,
Bev


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## whatshouldido

Jeanne2 said:


> Hi I have just found out about having to file my us taxes I have lived in canda for 40 years and never knew about it I came up with my parents when I was 14 and I have a landed immigrant card all these years.. my question is my husband inherited some money from his parents and he is afraid if I file my taxes in the us they will try and get his inheritance. could you please tell me if this is true?I was not named a benificary in the will, but it shows going into our bank account that we hold jointly.
> thank you
> Jeanne


Many people no longer want their US-person spouse to have signing authority over any of their family assets because it will all have to be reported to the IRS and eventually be subject to questioning, etc. It is a huge problem and creating a new class of women housewives around the world, those who are now removed from any involvement in family finances because of their US status. Which is fine and well until something happens to the husband, divorce or death and the women has no rights anymore to the assets, home, life she helped build. American Citizens Abroad talks about this in their radio interviews, very interesting, I'm a newbie so I cannot post a link to their website but I'm sure you can find it.

It will also depend on your marriage contract, if it is a community property contract, it could be that this inheritance is indeed partly yours and taxes might be due. Is there a prenup? Is it separate property? Even if you are filing separately, if your marriage contract is joint, you could be liable.

It is all very complicated and like many, many of us your stomach is in knots and rightly so. Good luck.


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## Jeanne2

*Marraige contract? community Property?*



whatshouldido said:


> Many people no longer want their US-person spouse to have signing authority over any of their family assets because it will all have to be reported to the IRS and eventually be subject to questioning, etc. It is a huge problem and creating a new class of women housewives around the world, those who are now removed from any involvement in family finances because of their US status. Which is fine and well until something happens to the husband, divorce or death and the women has no rights anymore to the assets, home, life she helped build. American Citizens Abroad talks about this in their radio interviews, very interesting, I'm a newbie so I cannot post a link to their website but I'm sure you can find it.
> 
> It will also depend on your marriage contract, if it is a community property contract, it could be that this inheritance is indeed partly yours and taxes might be due. Is there a prenup? Is it separate property? Even if you are filing separately, if your marriage contract is joint, you could be liable.
> 
> It is all very complicated and like many, many of us your stomach is in knots and rightly so. Good luck.


This is concerning I did not know there was different kinds of marriages and no I didn't sign a pre nup we just got married in a little church and that was it- I don't know what a community property marraige as apposed to a non community property marriage even is. Gosh how could I even find that out? should I get re-married and sign a pre nup? anybody have any more info on this? I see my accountant next week and I really need to know more about this as I need to quell my husbands doubts.


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## Jeanne2

Bev do you think what (what should I do) is right about the community property thing concerning my husbands inheritance from his parents farm? 
I also have a problem with getting my social security number as they said I need a document for each decade I have lived that has my name and picture. they said school records would work and I have none I never went to school. they said medical records and I didn't go to the doctor other then when I was born until I came to canada at 14. Then they said my place of residence where I lived when I was in the states and there is no record because my parents lived in parks and in cars. I did not have a standard upbringing as you can see. How does sombody like me get a security number they must have some way? I can't be the only one that had crazy parents.


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## Bevdeforges

Jeanne2 said:


> Bev do you think what (what should I do) is right about the community property thing concerning my husbands inheritance from his parents farm?
> I also have a problem with getting my social security number as they said I need a document for each decade I have lived that has my name and picture. they said school records would work and I have none I never went to school. they said medical records and I didn't go to the doctor other then when I was born until I came to canada at 14. Then they said my place of residence where I lived when I was in the states and there is no record because my parents lived in parks and in cars. I did not have a standard upbringing as you can see. How does sombody like me get a security number they must have some way? I can't be the only one that had crazy parents.


Personally, I wouldn't worry about the community property thing. If you don't have a prenup (and most people don't) your marital property situation is usually a function of the state or province (or country) where you are currently living.

For the inheritance, that doesn't count as "income" the way US tax law works. How any interest or capital gains are divided between spouses when an inheritance (or any other capital) is part of a jointly held account is pretty much up for grabs and can be handled in a variety of ways. Unless we're talking very large amounts (tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars) in income, the IRS is not going to spend much time checking these things out or trying to collect taxes on the amounts.
Cheers,
Bev


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## whatshouldido

Jeanne2 said:


> I don't know what a community property marraige as apposed to a non community property marriage even is. Gosh how could I even find that out? should I get re-married and sign a pre nup? anybody have any more info on this?.


Dear Jenne2, so sorry to have thrown you into a whirl.

I only mentioned the community property thing, because that was what my tax lawyer asked me when I regularized. I know that several people on this forum have posted that if you have a NRA spouse you can file separately; this is perhaps true but in that case my US tax lawyer is mistaken. He asked me many questions about my marriage contract abroad, and luckily it was a separate property contract. Perhaps my lawyer was mistaken or the rules have changed.

Basically, when you marry you can either decide to share everything (community property), to keep everything separate (separate property) or a mix of the two (usually done with a specific clause or annex in the marriage contract, or in the US commonly a prenup agreement), 

Apparently in the USA some states are "community property states" which means all marriages in those states are community property unless another agreement like a prenup exists (anyone jump in here if I'm wrong).

I don't know how it is in Canada.

In my country the basic default was separate property contracts which was luckily what I had.

My lawyer said that if I had a community property wedding, the husbands and wifes assets are split down the middle and you have to declare half of everything each year.

For an inheritance indeed you should not have to pay income tax on it... however you must inform yourself about the multiple declarations you may have to make. If you get a gift or inheritance from someone who is not a US citizen, and you don't declare it, it could be subject to penalties. So you just have to make sure you get the paperwork done correctly.

Of course going forward if your inheritance produces an income (for example if you rent the farm and get rental income, or if you sell it and make a capital gain), that income would be half yours and must be declared and taxes paid depending on your marriage contract.

I pretty much agree with the main guidelines given elsewhere on this forum, just do your best to try and fill in the paperwork as completely as possible and make sure you do so every year; do not do anything drastic, just try your very best to comply and probably everything will be ok.


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## Jeanne2

*community property*



whatshouldido said:


> Dear Jenne2, so sorry to have thrown you into a whirl.
> 
> I only mentioned the community property thing, because that was what my tax lawyer asked me when I regularized. I know that several people on this forum have posted that if you have a NRA spouse you can file separately; this is perhaps true but in that case my US tax lawyer is mistaken. He asked me many questions about my marriage contract abroad, and luckily it was a separate property contract. Perhaps my lawyer was mistaken or the rules have changed.
> 
> Basically, when you marry you can either decide to share everything (community property), to keep everything separate (separate property) or a mix of the two (usually done with a specific clause or annex in the marriage contract, or in the US commonly a prenup agreement),
> 
> Apparently in the USA some states are "community property states" which means all marriages in those states are community property unless another agreement like a prenup exists (anyone jump in here if I'm wrong).
> 
> I don't know how it is in Canada.
> 
> In my country the basic default was separate property contracts which was luckily what I had.
> 
> My lawyer said that if I had a community property wedding, the husbands and wifes assets are split down the middle and you have to declare half of everything each year.
> 
> For an inheritance indeed you should not have to pay income tax on it... however you must inform yourself about the multiple declarations you may have to make. If you get a gift or inheritance from someone who is not a US citizen, and you don't declare it, it could be subject to penalties. So you just have to make sure you get the paperwork done correctly.
> 
> Of course going forward if your inheritance produces an income (for example if you rent the farm and get rental income, or if you sell it and make a capital gain), that income would be half yours and must be declared and taxes paid depending on your marriage contract.
> 
> I pretty much agree with the main guidelines given elsewhere on this forum, just do your best to try and fill in the paperwork as completely as possible and make sure you do so every year; do not do anything drastic, just try your very best to comply and probably everything will be ok.


Thanks for you explaination I really appreciate the time you took. I guess I will know more when I see my accountant next week I hope he knows about all this stuff. I am trying to study it all as much as possible so I at least know a bit. I just find it so scary cause we worked so very hard for what we have-


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## whatshouldido

Bevdeforges said:


> Personally, I wouldn't worry about the community property thing. If you don't have a prenup (and most people don't) your marital property situation is usually a function of the state or province (or country) where you are currently living.
> 
> Bev


Indeed, your marital property situation could be dictated by local law, local customs...

And in many places it could be a COMMUNITY PROPERTY by default.

My tax lawyers said the IRS will look to the local contract and law to determine if you are under a community property or separate property contract.

Anyone who is a US citizen with a NRA spouse, and who has a community property contract by default or by agreement, should worry about it.

I have a friend in a dire situation because of this.

It implies that on your tax return, FBARS and other declarations you own half of everything and your income is half of everything. It is a completely different way of filling out your 1040 and could have very serious impacts.

On what basis are you saying "don't worry about it", are you a CPA, tax lawyer, accountant in France, IRS employee?


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## Bevdeforges

whatshouldido said:


> On what basis are you saying "don't worry about it", are you a CPA, tax lawyer, accountant in France, IRS employee?


As it turns out I AM a CPA (though not in practice these days - certified, not licensed) and I work as an accountant here in France for a French company.
Cheers,
Bev


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## Jeanne2

whatshouldIdo I think that Bev seeing the state I was in "" thought that a word of comfort and reasurance would be more benificial to my state of mind at the time. It's a little thing called compassion and I do very much appreciate what she did for me. I have an accountant that knows all the ins and outs up here. I was just scared thats all. So thank you Bev! a word spoken at the right time in due season is a well of Life! 
Jeanne<3


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## BBCWatcher

Bevdeforges said:


> *If you elect to treat your NRA spouse as a US resident for tax purposes, you both lose the ability to take the FEIE (to exclude earned income made while living abroad).*


I don't think this part is correct, at least if my very professionally prepared taxes are correct. Having a Section 6013(g) election in force is quite compatible with the foreign earned income exclusion. In fact, both spouses get their own separate FEIEs if they're both resident abroad, and then there's the (household) foreign housing exclusion on top of that. (KPMG and other expat tax accounting firms have some good articles on the Web explaining how this works.)

The IRS perhaps doesn't help by using the word "resident" in relation to this election -- that's confusing. Something like "treated as a U.S. person for tax purposes" would be at least somewhat less confusing.

If the foreign spouse earns less than the FEIE ($95,100 in tax year 2012) and has modest unearned income (interest, dividends, capital gains), or if the foreign spouse lives in a jurisdiction with similar or higher income taxes compared to the U.S., then it's generally advantageous to take the Section 6013(g) election (for married filing jointly). However, you only get one Section 6013(g) election per lifetime, so you have to use it wisely for the particular group of consecutive tax years when it makes the most sense.


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## Bevdeforges

I'm simply going by what they have in Publication 54 - they say that both spouses will be treated as US residents if the NRA spouse elects to be treated as a US resident. Personally, I prefer not to get an ITIN for my NRA spouse and to keep his financial affairs out of the range of the IRS. But, your mileage may vary.
Cheers,
Bev


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## BBCWatcher

Well, in many/most cases the U.S. citizen/green card holder is going to be penalized when married filing separately versus married filing jointly. Thus the entire household takes a hit, which also hurts the foreign spouse. So the IRS (Congress) taxes the foreign spouse's privacy, basically.

Each situation is different, but my NRA had already filed a couple years of U.S. tax returns and FBARs before we met (and before she left the U.S.), so she hasn't got much relevant privacy left. We took the election and file jointly, and it's a good idea financially for us. The FEIE fully shields her earned income, and her unearned income is modest and already foreign taxed at a high rate.

By the way, it's probably worth noting that a gift tax kicks in if the U.S. spouse transfers more than about $139K (tax year 2012) to the foreign spouse. Congress didn't like the possibility that a foreign spouse could effectively shield household unearned income from U.S. tax by putting those financial assets to work in a lower tax jurisdiction, hence there's a limit. There's no gift tax on transfers of any size between U.S. spouses.


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## Bevdeforges

Having worked for one of the big accounting companies, I'm well aware of how they "take an aggressive tax stance" and wait to see what the IRS will do. Fortunately, the IRS doesn't seem to be too aggressive in pursuing minor items on tax returns filed from abroad.

In the case where an NRA spouse has never lived in the US and has no SS number nor any US filing obligation, it may be simplest just to keep them off the radar altogether. (It also depends, of course, on how the finances are organized within the family unit.) We've had a number of cases here in the forum of Americans filing from overseas who have been told by a tax preparer to file as "single" when they have an NRA spouse. I get the feeling this is one of those areas that the IRS doesn't really get too picky about, though technically it is not at all according to the regulations.
Cheers,
Bev


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## BBCWatcher

I'm not sure what the reference is to "an aggressive tax stance." The FEIE is entirely compatible with a Section 6013(g) election. Here's the relevant quote from the IRS's own instructions for Form 2555 (the Foreign Earned Income Exclusion form), page 3: "Physical Presence Test....Note: A nonresident alien who, with a U.S. citizen or U.S. resident alien spouse, chooses to be taxed as a resident of the United States can qualify under this test if the time requirements are met."

I should also clarify the issue of FBAR reporting. A Section 6013(g) election does NOT have a direct impact on whether the foreign spouse must file Form TD F 90-22.1. Typically a foreign spouse who (together with his/her U.S. spouse) makes a Section 6013(g) election will NOT have to file his/her own FBARs, nor will the U.S. spouse have to report accounts held solely by his/her foreign spouse. See this KPMG-issued notice for more information. I can't speak to Form 8938 (FATCA) reporting, but fortunately most households don't need to file Form 8938 because they don't have big enough financial holdings with truly foreign institutions. Moreover, FATCA thresholds for reporting are substantially higher for individuals and couples living abroad than for those living in the U.S.

There are many, many benefits in the tax code when filing jointly versus filing separately. Just to pick an example at random, the Earned Income Tax Credit (EITC) is substantially more generous to couples who file jointly. Foreign spouses with a Section 6013(g) election in place are counted for purposes of EITC calculations.

All that said, whether it's wise to make a Section 6013(g) election or not is very situational. It works well for us, but "your mileage may vary."


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## RTRP

In many cases, the US spouse may file as HOH which is more beneficial than MFS


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## Bevdeforges

BBCWatcher said:


> There are many, many benefits in the tax code when filing jointly versus filing separately. Just to pick an example at random, the Earned Income Tax Credit (EITC) is substantially more generous to couples who file jointly. Foreign spouses with a Section 6013(g) election in place are counted for purposes of EITC calculations.
> 
> All that said, whether it's wise to make a Section 6013(g) election or not is very situational. It works well for us, but "your mileage may vary."


But to file for the EITC, you need to be resident in the US and NOT to have filed a 2555 to claim the earned income exclusion. Not really relevant for US expats in any event.
Cheers,
Bev


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## BBCWatcher

The EITC is a bad example (except in narrow circumstances), but there are many other, better examples of the advantages of MFJ v. MFS.

HOH is generally better than MFS (or S) if you qualify, but it should still be compared to MFJ which is often the best. It's a bit easier to qualify for HOH if your spouse is an NRA.

A joint return is typically more work for the tax preparer, especially if he/she is running a comparison between filing statuses, so that's one possible downside.


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## Bevdeforges

While I'll agree in general that MFJ is a better filing status overall, for expats married to NRA, it may simply not be practical (particularly if the NRA spouse does not want to reveal his or her finances to the IRS for no particular reason). If the NRA member of the couple has significant resources from other than salary, it's probably FAR more complicated to avoid double taxation.

For HOH, the taxpayer needs a dependent (who needs to be US citizen, I think, with a US SS number).

Each US taxpayer has to evaluate their own situation.
Cheers,
Bev


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## johnmillsbro

Slightly related. If my NRA spouse has a SS# (from 2002) and I want to fill married, separately--how do I handle this? Include the SS# or just write NRA and move along?!?!

Thanks again


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## BBCWatcher

IRS Publication 501 answers this question (and many others). Here's what it says:

"If your spouse does not have and is not required to have an SSN or ITIN, enter 'NRA' in the space for your spouse's SSN."

That's clear enough. Your spouse has a Social Security number, ergo you must provide it.


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## Bevdeforges

Unless your NRA spouse is also filing separately, I'd just go the "file separately and fill in NRA for both name and SS# of your spouse" route. The information is used primarily to match up the returns of married couples filing separately to make sure they are playing by the rules. 
Cheers,
Bev


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## BBCWatcher

Except that would violate the instructions in IRS Publication 501. Which is not _necessarily_ a problem, but the IRS already has the Social Security number (or ITN) for your spouse. I don't see the point in trying to obfuscate what the IRS already has, especially when the instructions require providing that information.


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## johnmillsbro

She was given her SS in 2002 when she worked in the US for a year. Does the fact she has a SS and is married to a US citizen implicate her or myself for reporting her income. Again she has no income or residency status in the US. I can report her SS but what is reason they want this info?

Thanks


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## BBCWatcher

If she is a non-resident alien and has no U.S. source income (or at least doesn't meet the filing threshold), yes, she can skip filing a U.S. tax return and also avoid filing a joint return with you. You would then choose married filing separately as your filing status (or head of household if you qualify).

Your obligation to file is a separate issue. In my view the IRS's instructions are quite clear. According to Publication 501, if you're married you are required to report your spouse's name. (If you're MFS you would put your spouse's name on Form 1040 Line 3, as indicated.) If your NRA spouse has a SSN or ITN you'd put that on Form 1040 in the designated space at the top right.

I neither make the rules nor write the instructions. But there they are. My recommendation is to follow the IRS's instructions. I appreciate that one might want to withhold information from the IRS if possible, but the IRS didn't write their instructions in a way compatible with that desire in this case.

I can imagine many reasons why the IRS asks for your spouse's SSN/ITN. One reason is the one Bev described, but it's not the only reason I can imagine.


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## Bevdeforges

OK, but I think you're reading quite a bit into that particular instruction. For years, in Pub 54, they worded the instruction to make it appear that any US citizen filing from overseas had to get an ITIN for their NRA spouse. (At that time, getting an ITIN for a foreign spouse meant taking them down to the Consulate to get finger printed.) 

If your NRA spouse has no further obligation to file US tax returns, I'd go the NRA route and be done with it. If they are filing a separate return for some reason, then I'd put in the SS number, but otherwise, no.

But, you do whatever helps you sleep at night.
Cheers,
Bev


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## johnmillsbro

Thanks. If I file with my wife as a NRA. But in reality she pays 50% or more of our household expenses am I entitled to file as a head of household? Am I entitled to claim my children as dependents?!?!

Thanks again. I feel like I'm close to tackling this!


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## Bevdeforges

There is an option to file as head of household as long as your kids are US citizens and have their own SS numbers. Read through the requirements for H0H very carefully - but I know some expats married to NRAs do so.
Cheers,
Bev


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## johnmillsbro

Wrong post response...


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## TooMuchCoffee

I think you just answered this, but to be clear: Can I claim my children as dependants if they are NOT US citizens?

(they aren't -- I did not live in the US long enough for them to claim citizenship through me, and my husband is Canadian. However, my children are definitely dependants). 

They don't have SSNs. I guess I could get ITINs for them? Or does this not make sense?


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## BBCWatcher

Check the instructions to IRS Form 1040. "Probably" is the answer since they are presumably resident in Canada with you.


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## Bevdeforges

Under normal circumstances, anyone you claim as a dependent must be a US citizen or resident alien and have either a SS number or an ITIN. However, there is an exception for Canadian and Mexican residents:



> or a You generally cannot claim a person as a dependent
> unless that person is a U.S. citizen,
> U.S. resident alien, U.S. national, *or a resident
> of Canada or Mexico*


Pub. 501 has a section on all the requirements for claiming someone as a dependent - round about page 11 of the publication.
Cheers,
Bev


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## coremo1979

Hello, 

This is my first post, so please be nice  First off, this website is amazing and I am SO HAPPY that I stumbled upon it. 

I am a born and raised US citizen living in Buffalo, NY. I married the love of my life who happens to be a Canadian citizen who lives an hour away in Ontario, Canada. We are currently going through the immigration process so that I can move to Canada to live with her. For now though, we live apart...

I filed my taxes as MFS because I thought that was the obvious choice. I listed my wife's name but put her CANADIAN SOCIAL INSURANCE NUMBER in the SSN field, because I thought that's what I needed to do. Needless to say, my efile was rejected. 

After reading through this forum and doing my own research, I realize that there were a couple things that I did wrong. 

1) I'm not allowed to efile because my wife is a NRA
2) I need to MAIL my return the old fashioned way, but with putting NRA as her SSN.

Am I understanding this correctly? Is there anything that I'm missing? Also, am I required to provide her name even?

I appreciate a response on this more than you all know. Thank you in advance!!


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## Bevdeforges

coremo1979 said:


> 1) I'm not allowed to efile because my wife is a NRA


Not quite true, but in your case, yes. You can file separately with a NRA spouse IF said spouse has a US social security number or ITIN. (But best not to go there, for a number of reasons.)


> 2) I need to MAIL my return the old fashioned way, but with putting NRA as her SSN.


Yup. You can actually put NRA for her name, too, if you prefer.



> Am I understanding this correctly? Is there anything that I'm missing? Also, am I required to provide her name even?


Just don't forget to keep sending those "IRS love letters" each year after you move to Canada!
Cheers,
Bev


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## coremo1979

Thank you so much for the confirmation... the immigration process is intimidating enough as it is, let alone when you have to question how to file your own tax return! 

Ill be mailing them out shortly thanks to you.


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## cagouillard

IRS.GOV - then go to forms and pubs


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## dielle

I'm still confused. I am a US Citizen married to a UK Citizen who is self-employed in France. We are still in the decision process about where to settle...either here or France. So, in regards to taxes, he makes a lot more than I do. If we elect to file jointly now, he would have no FEIC??? He'd be double taxed on his entire French income? Ouch! Can somebody please clarify this for me. It doesn't make sense. 

If I filed separately for 2013, I would basically lose a very nice-sized refund, so I was hoping to avoid that. But if we filed jointly, sounds like it might not be worth it if he ends up owing on his income. Then again, if we do begin the CR1 process, would it be better for him to be treated as a resident now for tax purposes?

Thanks all...


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## dielle

Just to update my previous post, I see now I missed several previous posts that addressed some of my concern regarding the FEIC. If he makes less than $91,000, sounds like he's clear. But I'd still appreciate opinions and experiences about whether it helps the CR1 process to file jointly...but maybe that belongs on a different thread. 

My head is spinning. Bless you all for your expat patience and courage. It is not an easy maze!!!


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## Bevdeforges

Honestly, the whole immigration process is geared to YOUR status in the US, not your NRA husband's. It shouldn't really matter whether you file jointly or if you file separately. The main thing they want to see is that the US citizen is up to date on their filings. 

I'm not sure what you mean by your husband having no FEIC. Possibly you are referring to a social security number? And no, you won't be able to file jointly unless your husband has at least an ITIN (taxpayer identification number). But if you do go to the US to settle, he'll get a real social security number shortly after arrival. At this point, it may be easier just for simplicity's sake to file separately - no need for the ITIN and no need to "change over" to a real SS number when you do get to the States. (Not at all sure how that works.)
Cheers,
Bev


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## BBCWatcher

I think I understand the question, and you're all wrong (or could be). 

OK, what we have here is a "typical" situation where there's a U.S.-foreign married couple. One spouse earns a lot more than the other, so ordinarily that would make Married Filing Jointly a much more attractive filing status than Married Filing Separately for the U.S. citizen (and thus for the household). However, in this case the U.S. citizen apparently earns below the Foreign Earned Income Exclusion and has limited or zero unearned income (interest, dividends, capital gains, etc.) that are not already subject to substantial non-U.S. tax, so Married Filing Separately still works fine.

That said, since this is France we're talking about I would encourage doing one tax calculation without the FEIE but with only the Foreign Tax Credit. In particular that would then allow the U.S. citizen to make a Roth IRA contribution and might also result in some future tax savings in the U.S. by using excess Foreign Tax Credits. I certainly wouldn't guarantee that path will work, but it might be advantageous so it's worth checking.


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## Bevdeforges

Just one caveat to the filing jointly idea - there is this idea that France is a high tax country, which is true to some extent. However, it is very often the case that the "high" taxes are the result of all the various kinds of taxes that you are liable for here.

Just be aware that only income taxes are creditable against US income taxes - and given that something like 50% of all taxpayers pay no income taxes here, using the 1116 tax credit is not always that good a deal. Where they get you coming and going is on the VAT, various local taxes, and whatever new and improved taxes they think up along the way. The CSG/CRDT (or whatever the initials are) - the one they often refer to as "cotisations" - is specifically NOT creditable for US tax purposes, even if it's assessed based on your income tax forms.
Cheers,
Bev


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## Yasmean

Is it wrong to continue filing as single on my American taxes if I am in a marriage with an ante-nuptial contract?

To be more specific, my husband and I were married at a mosque and then married by the courts for immigration purposes (because South Africa wasn't recognising Islamic marriages at the time but they are now), and an attorney worked up an ante-nuptial contract so that my property and his property will stay 100% separate, as it should be according to our religion.

Or do I need to open the whole can of worms of "married filing separately" when my husband has zero intention to ever immigrate to the US?


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## Bevdeforges

If you are married, then you should be filing married, filing separately, no matter what your financial arrangements might be - though there is no need to report any part of his income on your tax returns.

By filing separately, though, you are not really opening up a can of worms. You can simply indicate "NRA" for both the name and SSN/ITIN of your husband on your forms. There is no requirement to get him an ITIN, nor to name him on the forms if he is not subject to US taxation.

For FBAR purposes, you may have to report any bank accounts you hold in joint name or over which you have signature authority. But again, you can simply indicate that the joint holder is your NRA spouse and leave it at that.
Cheers,
Bev


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## BBCWatcher

Bevdeforges said:


> You can simply indicate "NRA" for both the name and SSN/ITIN of your husband on your forms. There is no requirement to get him an ITIN, nor to name him on the forms if he is not subject to US taxation.


Nobody to date has found IRS instructions or other regulatory support for the notion that it is permissible to withhold the name of your spouse on your own tax return.

If you can find such instructional or regulatory support for that notion, please cite it. Unless and until then, it's incorrect advice, I'm afraid.


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## Bevdeforges

Depends on whether you figure the US for one of those countries where "anything not expressly allowed is forbidden" or if it falls into the "anything not expressly forbidden is allowed." All I can say is that I've gotten away with it for 20 years or so, and so have many others I know. If there is a problem with the practice, I expect the IRS will be in touch.
Cheers,
Bev


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## BBCWatcher

Form 1040 asks for your spouse's name, and the IRS (and Congress ultimately) requires you to answer all its questions truthfully, absent a Fifth Amendment assertion anyway. There is no ambiguity here -- none whatsoever.

If you can find a regulation, instruction, advisory opinion, or anything else that suggests a married filer is legally able to withhold the name of his/her spouse, please let us know. Until then, if you're advising people not to answer one or more particular questions on Form 1040, make sure they know it's civil disobedience to withhold such information so they can understand the ramifications and make their own informed decisions.


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