# Queretaro Trip



## coondawg (May 1, 2014)

Wife and I just did a quick 3 day/2 night trip to Queretaro. Never been there before and we just wanted to get a "feel" for several areas, so if anything "struck our fancy" we could return, after wife takes her US citizenship exam on April 1.

Queretaro is just about a 2.5 hour drive from Leon, so very comfortable. We took "free" roads. Stayed the first night in the Historic Center of Queretaro, and we just love it. WHAT A GREAT OLD CITY. About 700p for a nice hotel in the center with parking. Very impressed with the availability of lots of handicapped parking places. Good selection of eateries. The "old" buildings (most were houses at one time) are just fabulous. WE WILL BE BACK !

Second day we took a trolley tour (what a waste of money). Next time we will pay the 160p to a taxi to see the local sights.

Decided to move on about 2 p.m. and went to San Juan del Rio, where the centro was NOT impressive and terrible traffic, but had a good McDonalds. SJdelR is a large city, with all the big box stores.

We pushed on (refreshed by the burgers and ice cream) to Tequisquiapan, where we spent the night. Very expensive, and we were not really impressed. Nice baskets, but very expensive.Stayed the night outside the center in an ok hotel for 500p, with parking. ( for us, Patzcuaro is by far the best Pueblo we have ever visited. Offers more than any other and prices are good.) 

Left the next morning and headed for Pena de Bernal for Breakfast. Sadly, the restaurants do not open there until 1-2 p.m., so we got a coffee at OXXO, drove through an unimpressive pueblo, saw the big "rock" and headed back toward Queretaro, where we found a McDonalds to feed our hunger. Since we need to head back to Texas early next week, we decided to return to Leon.

We will return for many days in Queretaro. The other places, for us, were not worth the trip. Maybe we missed something that was hidden somewhere. We think living in the Centro of Queretaro could be a good experience. 

If we missed something worthwhile, comments would be appreciated.


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

a "good McDO"..??? Please let us know how they compare to the ones in Texas!


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## coondawg (May 1, 2014)

citlali said:


> a "good McDO"..??? Please let us know how they compare to the ones in Texas!


We eat at Whataburger in Texas (I doubt your palate has been blessed with that taste), not McDonalds. Here, McDonald's has the best hamburgers outside our house for us. Of course, we get them "our way", without all the mess. Sometimes you can be inventive and "make a silk purse out of a sow's ear".


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

Yes I have been "blessed"..I think thee are very few burgers I have not tasted..including the tiny crystal burgers.. My favorite are still bugers we used to get in Oakland.
MacDo is my leat favorite of all ..When we stayed in San Juan del iIo with our Zapoteco friends on our way to Oaxaca about 13 years ago we ate at a local restaurant and my husband ordered a burger.. I do not think it was to his liking..no bread and I do not remember what else was missing according to him so he had a hissy fit.. Our friends filmed him..and several years later while we were in Teotitlan I noticed people recognizing him..I found out that the favorite video during fiestas when things would calm down was showing him having a hissy fit about the burger..he became famous in town and I am surprised they did not ask for his autograph!


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## coondawg (May 1, 2014)

citlali said:


> Yes I have been "blessed"..I think thee are very few burgers I have not tasted..including the tiny crystal burgers.. My favorite are still bugers we used to get in Oakland.
> MacDo is my leat favorite of all ..When we stayed in San Juan del iIo with our Zapoteco friends on our way to Oaxaca about 13 years ago we ate at a local restaurant and my husband ordered a burger.. I do not think it was to his liking..no bread and I do not remember what else was missing according to him so he had a hissy fit.. Our friends filmed him..and several years later while we were in Teotitlan I noticed people recognizing him..I found out that the favorite video during fiestas when things would calm down was showing him having a hissy fit about the burger..he became famous in town and I am surprised they did not ask for his autograph!


Hard to teach An "old dog new tricks".


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## chuck846 (Jan 15, 2016)

Ah crystal burgers - I grew up on White-Castle hamburgers. Not sure about the nutritional value but I could eat a dozen on a good day.


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## chuck846 (Jan 15, 2016)

Speaking of travelling - with any luck our new Subaru will arrive from Japan within the next few weeks. It will have a NAV system. Can anyone comment on how useful a NAV system is in Mexico ? Do you think I can rely on it to get me from Cuernavaca to Queretaro - knowing that it should get up on the upper level ?


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## Hound Dog (Jan 18, 2009)

citlali said:


> Yes I have been "blessed"..I think thee are very few burgers I have not tasted..including the tiny crystal burgers.. My favorite are still bugers we used to get in Oakland.
> MacDo is my leat favorite of all ..When we stayed in San Juan del iIo with our Zapoteco friends on our way to Oaxaca about 13 years ago we ate at a local restaurant and my husband ordered a burger.. I do not think it was to his liking..no bread and I do not remember what else was missing according to him so he had a hissy fit.. Our friends filmed him..and several years later while we were in Teotitlan I noticed people recognizing him..I found out that the favorite video during fiestas when things would calm down was showing him having a hissy fit about the burger..he became famous in town and I am surprised they did not ask for his autograph!


Citlali may not remember as she is not a burger freak as is the Dawg, but we had Whataburger joints in the San Francico Bay Área where we lived many years and I second your vote for their burgers, *******.

I now feel compelled to rate the burgers in my present home towns:

In Ajijic, Jalsco on the shores of Lake Chapala, my vote goes to Tripp's Burgers in the relatively new Laguna Mall. After Tripp's, Dawg needs to drive the 30 kilometers or so to the Guadalajara airport for a cheese whopper from Burger King or a burger from Johnny Rocket's. What I like about the Burger King at the Guadalajara Airport is that it sits adjacent to a bar and one can enjoy one's whopper with a margarita. Citlali prefers Pig's Pearls in Guadalajara but I have yet to try that place and, as at present we are in Chiapas, I must defer further hamburger research in the Jalisco area until my return.

In San Cristobal de Las Casas, Chiapas, my favorite is also Burger King as their local franchise sits in the city's historic center on the pedestrian-only Andador across the street from the Revolucion Bar which has al fresco seating so I can sit outside enjoying a whopper with margarita while casually observing the passing throng. there is also a very good hamburger place on the Andador as well called the Hamburger Tavern Which I would recommend.

Now, all that having been said, a really fine hamburger experience requires an appropriate atmosphere as well as a good burger to make the consumption of that (those) burger(s) a memorable event worthy of note for the rest of one's otherwise inconsequential life. Based upon that criterion, far and away the best hamburgers on earth are served up at one of many Krystal hamburgers franchise joints located mainly in the central urban cores of any number of large southern cities. These joints are usually easy to find as they will often be the sole businesses open all night with lights ablaze located in somewhat seedy urban neighborhoods having seen better times where most businesses are marginal or boarded up. The decor will be reminiscent of a 1950s roadhouse and the only employees will be overweight middle aged women constantly flipping burgers on a grill or waiting on customers seated on footstools scarfing down their house specialty which is the tiny fried greasy hamburger with onions known affectionately by their clientele as "Sliders". A true Slider fan will consume between five and 30 sliders at a sitting preferably off premise accompanied by copious amounts of cheap booze chased with Coca Cola. Later in life when this is no longer physically feasible, Sliders become a fond memory.


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## coondawg (May 1, 2014)

Forgot to mention that we also visited Juriquilla. Just proves my contention that there are LOTS of Mexicans with LOTS of money. We saw MANY, MANY houses that were worth at least $400,000 USD, and probably up to $ 1M+ USD. LOTS ! And, this is just one place in Mexico, but I have seen lots of similar places. They all can't be selling drugs. Must be in politics. 
Juriquilla also has a beautiful bull ring, well maintained.


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## chuck846 (Jan 15, 2016)

coondawg said:


> Forgot to mention that we also visited Juriquilla. Just proves my contention that there are LOTS of Mexicans with LOTS of money. We saw MANY, MANY houses that were worth at least $400,000 USD, and probably up to $ 1M+ USD. LOTS ! And, this is just one place in Mexico, but I have seen lots of similar places. They all can't be selling drugs. Must be in politics.
> Juriquilla also has a beautiful bull ring, well maintained.


Our's is the smallest house in our community - but we paid more than $400K USD. Some houses are maybe four times larger than our's. Most owner's own businesses. One a large medical equipment company, one a large bakery, another an import/export company, one is a renowned PhD in Chemistry, another family produces Tequila - and there are some of us who are simply retired. There is one family which apparently has a bit of questionable notoriety. But - we have no bull ring.


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## coondawg (May 1, 2014)

And, the people at lakeside that pay $200,000 USD for their houses think they are living like wealthy Mexicans. How disappointed they would be to see how Mexico's wealthy really live.


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## chuck846 (Jan 15, 2016)

coondawg said:


> And, the people at lakeside that pay $200,000 USD for their houses think they are living like wealthy Mexicans. How disappointed they would be to see how Mexico's wealthy really live.


There are many very very wealthy people in Mexico - and I'm not sure I've ever met any of them.


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## Hound Dog (Jan 18, 2009)

coondawg said:


> And, the people at lakeside that pay $200,000 USD for their houses think they are living like wealthy Mexicans. How disappointed they would be to see how Mexico's wealthy really live.


I don't knoow how we made the tránsition from Queretaro to "Lakeside" but since ******* commented on the people at Lakeside by which I presume he means that part of the local population living at Lake Chápala comprised of foreign immigrants, primarily retirees, who have migrated to Lake Chapala's north shore and who generally like to refer to themselves as "expats". Those folks, or at least those who reside full time at the lake, are about 10 percent of the total population. The remainder consists of local Mexican nationals a significant portion of which consists of folks from Metropolitan Guadalajara, many of substantial means, who live there and commute to the city or environs or have second homes at the lake.

It is Dawg's good fortune to live at Lake Chapala seasonally and. Mexico's poorest state of Chiapas seasonally as well. Based upon my experience, I would contend that it is a hell of a lot easier for foreign immigrants to Mexico to delude themselves into believing they are wealthy and in the same league as wealthy Mexicans if they live in Chiapas as opposed to Lake Chapala. All the thinking expat at Lake Chapala has to do is observe the mansions lining the lake shore, mostly owned by wealthy Guadalajarans, 
To realize that he/she is not among the most financially blessed to be found around there. In Chiapas, on the other hand, a state where a very few, often immensely rich families own and control most of the wealth, the plutocrats thereabouts tend to avoid ostentation and are, thus, hard to spot.


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## chuck846 (Jan 15, 2016)

Hound Dog said:


> I don't knoow how we made the tránsition from Queretaro to "Lakeside" but since ******* commented on the people at Lakeside by which I presume he means that part of the local population living at Lake Chápala comprised of foreign immigrants, primarily retirees, who have migrated to Lake Chapala's north shore and who generally like to refer to themselves as "expats". Those folks, or at least those who reside full time at the lake, are about 10 percent of the total population. The remainder consists of local Mexican nationals a significant portion of which consista of folks from Metropolitan Guadalajara, many of substantial means, who live there and commute to the city or environs or have second homes at the lake.
> 
> It is Dawg's good fortune to live at Lake Chapala seasonally and. Mexico's poorest state of Chiapas seasonally as well. Based upon my experience, I would contend that it is a hell of a lot easier for foreign immigrants to Mexico to delude themselves into believing they are wealthy and in the same league as wealthy Mexicans if they live in Chiapas as opposed to Lake Chapala. All the thinking expat at Lake Chapala one has to do is observe the mansions lining the lake shore, mostly owned by wealthy Guadalajarans,
> To realize that he/she is not among the most financially blessed to be found around there. In Chiapas, on the other hand, a state where a very few, often immensely rich families own and control most of the wealth, the plutocrats thereabouts tend to avoid ostentation and are, thus, hard to spot.


Perhaps there is a message in what I'm going to say. At one point I worked for a small'ish company and the owner was worth $800 million USD. I worked for him numerous times over the years and we were close (ish). He would call the house and even rang the door-bell and asked me to come back at one point. How much house should a guy worth 800 million have ? He lived in a very nice 3 million dollar house (but he had a very nice Challenger jet as well).


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## GARYJ65 (Feb 9, 2013)

coondawg said:


> Forgot to mention that we also visited Juriquilla. Just proves my contention that there are LOTS of Mexicans with LOTS of money. We saw MANY, MANY houses that were worth at least $400,000 USD, and probably up to $ 1M+ USD. LOTS ! And, this is just one place in Mexico, but I have seen lots of similar places. They all can't be selling drugs. Must be in politics.  Juriquilla also has a beautiful bull ring, well maintained.


Not all wealthy Mexicans are in drug business or politics.
There are many many thriving business in Mexico

You should see the houses in el Campanario or Balvanera


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## coondawg (May 1, 2014)

GARYJ65 said:


> Not all wealthy Mexicans are in drug business or politics.
> There are many many thriving business in Mexico
> 
> You should see the houses in el Campanario or Balvanera


I believe you. I still cannot believe that people still think of Mexico as a poor country. THAT, it is definitely NOT. Unless people are referring to poor management and lots of graft.


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

coondawg said:


> I believe you. I still cannot believe that people still think of Mexico as a poor country. THAT, it is definitely NOT. Unless people are referring to poor management and lots of graft.


In 2013, 45.5 percent of the Mexico's population lived in poverty (defined as less than $2329 pesos/mo in urban areas and $1490/mo in rural areas). 9.8 percent lived in extreme poverty (defined as less than $1125/mo in urban areas and $800/mo in rural areas).

Source:
Mexico Poverty Rate 2013: 45 Percent Of Mexicans Still Live In Poverty Despite Decreasing Rate, Says New Study

It turns out Mexico and the US are pretty similar in their GINI index, a measure of how unequally income is distributed between the wealthy and the poor. Apparently, in the US both the rich and the poor are doing a lot better than in Mexico, but in the US, the poorest are usually not as close to or below the various poverty levels as the poorest in Mexico.

I think having nearly 50% of the population living in poverty qualifies Mexico as a "poor" country, but it depends on how you want to define poor.


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## coondawg (May 1, 2014)

I relate that number of poor people to poor government management and graft, because Mexico has the resources to be a first world country. The US simply does a better job of managing resources for the benefit of the poor. Poor to me means that resources are not available to do a better job. Poor people, poor roads, poor security, etc. indicate something else is the problem here.


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## chuck846 (Jan 15, 2016)

coondawg said:


> I believe you. I still cannot believe that people still think of Mexico as a poor country. THAT, it is definitely NOT. Unless people are referring to poor management and lots of graft.


PLEASE - let them believe it


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## coondawg (May 1, 2014)

chuck846 said:


> PLEASE - let them believe it


I see where you are coming from, Chuck !


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## coondawg (May 1, 2014)

THANKS to all who have PMed me with suggestions of places to eat and stay and things worth seeing in Queretaro. Very much appreciated !


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## PatrickMurtha (Feb 26, 2011)

coondawg said:


> ...Stayed the first night in the Historic Center of Queretaro, and we just love it. WHAT A GREAT OLD CITY....We think living in the Centro of Queretaro could be a good experience.


It is. I have lived in Queretaro since December 2014, my third city in Mexico after Culiacan (where I taught in a prepa for three years) and Mexico City. Queretaro is fantastic and I'm never leaving (and won't have to, since I have my Residente Permanente now). At 57, after a lifetime of looking, I have found my dream city. 

I have a furnished, pet-friendly one-bedroom in the heart of town, walkable to the entire Centro and within a block of 90% of the bus lines. I pay only 4,100 pesos for rent, utilities, and maintenance - $235 USD at today's exchange rate. I can live comfortably here for $1,000 USD per month, very comfortably for $1,500, and like a prince for $2,000. 

(The pet-friendliness is important because I have three cats, a ferret, a small dog, and a hamster.)

The weather here is perfection, usually between 60 and 85 F under sunny skies and with a bracing breeze. The rainy season isn't as intensely wet as in other parts of Mexico. Queretaro is at 6,000 feet on a high plateau, with excellent air quality. No earthquakes, volcanoes, hurricanes, tropical storms, tsunamis - zero violent phenomena. We're above the Zika virus zone - I don't see mosquitoes.

Queretaro city and state are a great Mexican business success story, with tons of international investment and more arriving continuously. There are dozens of industrial parks, but they have very strict pollution controls. No skyscrapers, though - the city is growing out, not up. There are about a million people in the metro area.

Traffic can get problematic on the highways surrounding the city, but I don't have a car so I'm not much bothered by it.

The city has a reputation as the safest and cleanest large city in Mexico. That is certainly my belief. It is very cosmopolitan. Having a good command of English is increasingly becoming a key professional job requirement; managers need it to communicate with their German, Dutch, and Japanese company owners.

There are so many American and Canadian retirees in San Miguel de Allende an hour away, but virtually none here. This puzzles me. Maybe the norteamericanos just haven't discovered Queretaro yet. One impressed tourist dscribed it to me as a "sleeper city".


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## coondawg (May 1, 2014)

PatrickMurtha said:


> It is. I have lived in Queretaro since December 2014, my third city in Mexico after Culiacan (where I taught in a prepa for three years) and Mexico City. Queretaro is fantastic and I'm never leaving (and won't have to, since I have my Residente Permanente now). At 57, after a lifetime of looking, I have found my dream city.
> 
> I have a furnished, pet-friendly one-bedroom in the heart of town, walkable to the entire Centro and within a block of 90% of the bus lines. I pay only 4,100 pesos for rent, utilities, and maintenance - $235 USD at today's exchange rate. I can live comfortably here for $1,000 USD per month, very comfortably for $1,500, and like a prince for $2,000.
> 
> ...


Nice descriptions, Patrick. We agree with you from our short trip and we will be back, as soon as my wife takes her citizenship test (NOB) and we get her passport. I was really impressed that the Centro had so many "handicapped" parking places, and found it quite interesting that when we visited Juriquilla, there was not a church to be found anywhere. Is that an indication of something?
We would like to find a place in the Centro for a month to 6 weeks, to see how it is. Any suggestions? And, places you have found where you like to eat. Where do you shop for groceries, etc.?


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## PatrickMurtha (Feb 26, 2011)

Juriquilla is a pretty new development, which probably explains the lack of churches. No shortage of them elsewhere, I assure you! Centro itself is loaded with historic churches, convents, etc., many of which still function in their original roles.

To find a place to live, I'd start by looking at ads on Vivanuncios and Segundamano.

On restaurants, I'm not the expert, but I'm gradually starting to explore. For a good seafood meal under $5 USD, it's hard to beat Tampico on Av. Corregidora in the middle of the Centro Historico.

Groceries-wise, I shop all over. There is a convenient Bodega Aurrera down the block from me, but the quality of meat and fish there is sketchy (produce is fine). The Mega supermarkets are much better, and the Superamas better still (but pricey).

Exploring the streets of Centro is a constant delight. I live just a block away from the Alameda Hidalgo, one of the most beautiful city parks I have ever seen, and a few blocks from the famous aqueduct (Los Arcos).


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

PatrickMurtha said:


> Juriquilla is a pretty new development, which probably explains the lack of churches. No shortage of them elsewhere, I assure you! Centro itself is loaded with historic churches, convents, etc., many of which still function in their original roles.
> 
> To find a place to live, I'd start by looking at ads on Vivanuncios and Segundamano.
> 
> ...


Mercado de la Cruz is another option for groceries. Behind it on the north side there was a molina (mill) that sold fresh ground flour, peanut butter and similar stuff. I haven't been there for years so I can't confirm that the molina is still there.


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## perropedorro (Mar 19, 2016)

Went to Querétaro three weeks ago to see a soccer match. Lovely centro histórico, classic colonial architecture and the awesome Alameda parque. If anything it's just a little too polished for the likes of myself, who sort of enjoys a little grittiness. Passed through San Miguel, with its plague of American bigbox stores and demanding retirees, which I found way overdone. I loved Dolores Hidalgo where history is in the air, along with all the tributes to native son José Alfredo Jiménez, iconically talented but self-destructively drunk. The locals seemed very proud of their history, quite helpful and eager to share it.


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