# Guardia civil



## emlyn (Oct 26, 2012)

On Tuesday pm ,police indicated for me to stop at a roundabout,they were also stopping other vehicles, when it was my turn they wanted to know , where I was going,how many times my vehicle had been to Spain,and how long I had been in the country. I was not asked for any identification,nor was I asked to provide verification for my answers.I was then allowed to proceed.I am puzzled as to what purpose it served,any ideas ?


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## 90199 (Mar 21, 2010)

They were fishing, looking for big bad ones, you were not the type of fish they were after, so after a few questions they let you go.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

I used to get stopped regularly on the roundabout from Alhaurin to Cartama, by the same Guardia p Paco, he used to look at my cigarette packet, gesture that he wanted one and then crouch down by my driver door having a smoke, pretending to be looking at my paperwork lol (thats sounds quite seedy, but it was innocent - well I doubt his colleagues would have been too impressed)

Jo xxxx


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## el romeral (May 8, 2012)

A couple of years ago or so there were numerous roadblocks around Alhaurin de la Torre and surrounding countryside, over a several month period. I was stopped quite a few times and no two were the same. Sometimes they asked for all the documents, sometimes just driving licence, sometimes no documentation and once the Guardia peered in my open window and looked at my speedometer before waving me on. No idea what that last one was about:confused2:.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

el romeral said:


> ................and once the Guardia peered in my open window and looked at my speedometer before waving me on. No idea what that last one was about:confused2:.


Paco looking for a *** packet lol

Jo xxx


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## el romeral (May 8, 2012)

jojo said:


> Paco looking for a *** packet lol
> 
> Jo xxx


After reading your earlier post, it did make me wonder lol. It is lucky I never received a ticket as I do not smoke:eyebrows:


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

emlyn said:


> On Tuesday pm ,police indicated for me to stop at a roundabout,they were also stopping other vehicles, when it was my turn they wanted to know , where I was going,how many times my vehicle had been to Spain,and how long I had been in the country. I was not asked for any identification,nor was I asked to provide verification for my answers.I was then allowed to proceed.I am puzzled as to what purpose it served,any ideas ?


Were you in a UK plated vehicle?

If yes - I suspect that if they hadn't liked your answers or attitude then they might well have impounded the vehicle.


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## emlyn (Oct 26, 2012)

snikpoh said:


> Were you in a UK plated vehicle? If yes - I suspect that if they hadn't liked your answers or attitude then they might well have impounded the vehicle.


Yes, I was in a UK plated vehicle.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

emlyn said:


> Yes, I was in a UK plated vehicle.


 Maybe they will now be on the look out for your vehicle to then make sure its not still driving around in 3 months time on UK plates??

Jo xxx


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## emlyn (Oct 26, 2012)

jojo said:


> Maybe they will now be on the look out for your vehicle to then make sure its not still driving around in 3 months time on UK plates?? Jo xxx


Yes, I did wonder about that and the importance of keeping a record of arrival and departure dates to Spain, however as the vehicle is a motorhome under normal circumstances I might well drive into Portugal or France for periods of time and then return to Spain.What if through Health problems a person has to extend their stay in Spain taking them over their 6 months limit?


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

emlyn said:


> Yes, I did wonder about that and the importance of keeping a record of arrival and departure dates to Spain, however as the vehicle is a motorhome under normal circumstances I might well drive into Portugal or France for periods of time and then return to Spain.What if through Health problems a person has to extend their stay in Spain taking them over their 6 months limit?


 As long as you have proof and your insurance company are also notified so that you are covered????

Jo xxx


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## emlyn (Oct 26, 2012)

jojo said:


> As long as you have proof and your insurance company are also notified so that you are covered???? Jo xxx


Thank you,I will do that.
xxx


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## Gazeebo (Jan 23, 2015)

jojo said:


> Maybe they will now be on the look out for your vehicle to then make sure its not still driving around in 3 months time on UK plates??
> 
> Jo xxx


Does a car have to Spanish plated after 3 months? We thought it was within a 6 month period, same as visitors. If it does, then we will have to plan an earlier trip to France to make us legal.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Gazeebo said:


> Does a car have to Spanish plated after 3 months? We thought it was within a 6 month period, same as visitors. If it does, then we will have to plan an earlier trip to France to make us legal.



*I'm no expert* - hopefully someone else who knows more will be able to answer you. The theory I was working on was that you have 90 days to become a resident of Spain and as a resident, your car needs to be registered in the same country as the driver

Jo xxx


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

Gazeebo said:


> Does a car have to Spanish plated after 3 months? We thought it was within a 6 month period, same as visitors. If it does, then we will have to plan an earlier trip to France to make us legal.


If you are in Spain for more than 90 days, then you should sign on the list of foreigners (green sheet/card), proving income, health care etc.

As a Spanish resident, you can't drive a non-Spanish plated vehicle! (Some will argue that you aren't really resident until after 183 days and that all you've done after 90 days is to sign on the list of foreigners - I'm not so sure).

So, in your case, are you here for more than 183 days in a calendar year? Are you here for more than 90 days in one visit? If yes, then you need to get the plates changed - a simple visit out of Spain will not suffice.


Regarding motor homes - these can't be converted to Spanish plates (as far as I am aware).


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## davexf (Jan 26, 2009)

Hola

Regarding motorhomes, if they are left hand drive then there should be no problems as you don't have the problem of "all round vision" but right hand drive motorhomes do as they need to see things on the "blind side" 

Davexf


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## gus-lopez (Jan 4, 2010)

snikpoh said:


> If you are in Spain for more than 90 days, then you should sign on the list of foreigners (green sheet/card), proving income, health care etc.
> 
> As a Spanish resident, you can't drive a non-Spanish plated vehicle! (Some will argue that you aren't really resident until after 183 days and that all you've done after 90 days is to sign on the list of foreigners - I'm not so sure).
> 
> ...


No the 90 days for registration on the foreigners list is consecutive & if you leave after 89 day then the clock is reset. Tax residency , 183 days is cumulative.


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## chrisnation (Mar 2, 2009)

davexf said:


> Hola
> 
> Regarding motorhomes, if they are left hand drive then there should be no problems as you don't have the problem of "all round vision" but right hand drive motorhomes do as they need to see things on the "blind side"
> 
> Davexf


Please can you expand on your reply? I don't understand "_right hand drive motorhomes do as they need to see things on the "blind side"_ - do what?

I'm coming to Sp in Dec on a flat hunting trip and hope to have bought something by the early months of '16.

I have a RHD DIY camper. I intend to use it all over Europe but don't want to keep it in UK as the trip across the channel each time would add unnecessary time/expense. LHD would be more convenient but I do have thousands of miles of experience driving RHD mini coaches in Europe on battlefield tours. From the driving p.o.v. I'm not concerned.

But, from what I understand by replies to plating queries, as a signed-up resident of any EU country, it doesn't matter where any vehicle is parked up, it has to have the plates of ones country of res.

I'm actually in the process of building this camper. The stage I'm at in the construction might make it worthwhile stopping now and buying a rhd van to make life simpler - depending on your replies to the plating situation.

I have other queries about running a camper - insurances and so forth - in Europe. I would be grateful for advice/replies here or by PM


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## chrisnation (Mar 2, 2009)

gus-lopez said:


> No the 90 days for registration on the foreigners list is consecutive & if you leave after 89 day then the clock is reset. Tax residency , 183 days is cumulative.


I'm getting confused now. Judging by this reply, if I leave Sp in my RHD UK reg camper before any 90 day period is up, I'm still valid as a UK vehicle - requiring a UK ins policy, MoT cert and tax.

But 183 cumulative in Sp makes me liable to Sp taxation but not liable to register as a res? If one clocks up 183 days in any 365, does that entitle one to register for the Sp 'NHS' [as a UK state pensioner] whilst not being registered as a res?

My head is beginning to hurt. And it's not as if i haven't tried to bone up on this stuff over the years. Maybe I'm just thick ...


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## gus-lopez (Jan 4, 2010)

chrisnation said:


> I'm getting confused now. Judging by this reply, if I leave Sp in my RHD UK reg camper before any 90 day period is up, I'm still valid as a UK vehicle - requiring a UK ins policy, MoT cert and tax.
> 
> But 183 cumulative in Sp makes me liable to Sp taxation but not liable to register as a res? If one clocks up 183 days in any 365, does that entitle one to register for the Sp 'NHS' [as a UK state pensioner] whilst not being registered as a res?
> 
> My head is beginning to hurt. And it's not as if i haven't tried to bone up on this stuff over the years. Maybe I'm just thick ...


No, you can be a tax resident without being a resident ( registered on foreigners list )& vice versa.
Even if you left after 89 days so as not to have to register the vehicle would still become illegal after 90 & theoretically be required to be sealed (precintado)

P.S. & no being registered for tax would not gain you access to state medical even as an EU pensioner ,without registering as a resident.


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## davexf (Jan 26, 2009)

Hola 

If you are out of your country of residence for 183 days or more, then the rules say you must re-matriculate your motorhome from its UK plates. 

The ITV test will not pass RHD vehicles that can have restricted vision on the left hand side; they demand "all round" vision. So a RHD van cannot pass the ITV test even if you put windows in it as the "load line" can block out the window view 

Davexf


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

snikpoh said:


> So, in your case, are you here for more than 183 days in a calendar year? Are you here for more than 90 days in one visit? If yes, then you need to get the plates changed - a simple visit out of Spain will not suffice.





gus-lopez said:


> No the 90 days for registration on the foreigners list is consecutive & if you leave after 89 day then the clock is reset. Tax residency , 183 days is cumulative.


Which is what I said!

I do know the rules :boxing:


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## chrisnation (Mar 2, 2009)

Thanks Gus. The info about healthcare I understand.

But there seems to be a conflict between these two statements you made in successive posts.

"No, the 90 days for registration on the foreigners list is consecutive & if you leave after 89 day then the clock is reset"

"Even if you left after 89 days so as not to have to register, the vehicle would still become illegal after 90".

How come the clock is "reset" but would "still become illegal after 90"?

Head still hurting!


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## chrisnation (Mar 2, 2009)

snikpoh said:


> Which is what I said!
> 
> I do know the rules :boxing:


Snickie, if you know the rules, please can you interpret what looks like a contradiction in what Gus-Lopez states, as in my post?

And if you or anyone else can confirm in tablets of stone that a RHD camper van [conversion from panel van] would not be Sp plateable, I'd better stop converting it now, sell it and buy a LHD one.

The F.O. line on this is cagey. They say "It is_ unlikely _that a van or commercial vehicle could be re-reg in Sp". Is a camper "a van"?


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

chrisnation said:


> Snickie, if you know the rules, please can you interpret what looks like a contradiction in what Gus-Lopez states, as in my post?
> 
> And if you or anyone else can confirm in tablets of stone that a RHD camper van [conversion from panel van] would not be Sp plateable, I'd better stop converting it now, sell it and buy a LHD one.
> 
> The F.O. line on this is cagey. They say "It is_ unlikely _that a van or commercial vehicle could be re-reg in Sp". Is a camper "a van"?


This is only my opinion but; they will look upon the van as it was BEFORE you put the windows in because that's how it would be from the factory. In that case it would fail. The changes you make, might be OK but then in Spain, one can never be certain.

What Gus says is correct in terms of the 90 days versus 183. If you are here for more than 90 days in 'one lump', then you must register. If you leave before 90 days, then the clock restarts next time you arrive. If you accumulate more than 183 days in Spain in any one calendar year, then you are deemed tax resident.

Any (non-Spanish) vehicle that is owned by a Spanish resident (see above) must be matriculated (changed to Spanish plates) or sold.


I don't know, but Gus may have been alluding to the fact that you can NOT keep a UK plated vehicle in Spain if you become resident.


For a variety of different reasons, I think your best option would be to buy a LHD vehicle and then do any mods on that one AFTER it's legally here in Spain.


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## chrisnation (Mar 2, 2009)

snikpoh said:


> This is only my opinion but; they will look upon the van as it was BEFORE you put the windows in because that's how it would be from the factory. In that case it would fail. The changes you make, might be OK but then in Spain, one can never be certain.
> 
> What Gus says is correct in terms of the 90 days versus 183. If you are here for more than 90 days in 'one lump', then you must register. If you leave before 90 days, then the clock restarts next time you arrive. If you accumulate more than 183 days in Spain in any one calendar year, then you are deemed tax resident.
> 
> ...


Finally, an explanation I can understand. My head has stopped hurting. Your last point is spot on. 

Just to be clear - it's 183 days in a cal year not any 365 day period? So if day 182 is Dec 31st, on 1st Jan that clock winds back to zero?

Many thanks


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

chrisnation said:


> Finally, an explanation I can understand. My head has stopped hurting. Your last point is spot on.
> 
> Just to be clear - it's 183 days in a cal year not any 365 day period? So if day 182 is Dec 31st, on 1st Jan that clock winds back to zero?
> 
> Many thanks


Yep, calendar year.

The only twist in the tail is to do with "centre of economic interest". If the tax office here in Spain believe that you have moved your CoEI to Spain before the 183 days, then you are deemed tax resident from the date of their decision. 

However, for all reasonable purposes, work with 183 days.


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## gus-lopez (Jan 4, 2010)

chrisnation said:


> Thanks Gus. The info about healthcare I understand.
> 
> But there seems to be a conflict between these two statements you made in successive posts.
> 
> ...


The 90 days refers to you. Apologies I should have put 6 months for the vehicle.
The vehicle counts from the day it arrives. So even if YOU leave after 89 days , with or without the vehicle, & the clock starts again when you return the vehicle will still count from the day it entered the first time.
Theoretically after 6 months of the vehicle being in the country, & assuming you have come & gone so as to maintain your non-residency , the vehicle either has to leave or be 'sealed' . Called Precintado , for the following 6 months. Chance of you getting the Guardia to do that these days is highly unlikely. 
What will happen if they spot it is they will issue a fine & "change of registration
papers " requiring you to do it within X days.

P.s. The law states that the vehicle can only be in the country for 6 months in any calendar year as a "temporary import". It is the same in all EU states.


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

gus-lopez said:


> Theoretically after 6 months of the vehicle being in the country, & assuming you have come & gone so as to maintain your non-residency , the vehicle either has to leave or be 'sealed' . Called Precintado , for the following 6 months. Chance of you getting the Guardia to do that these days is highly unlikely.
> What will happen if they spot it is they will issue a fine & "change of registration
> papers " requiring you to do it within X days.
> 
> P.s. The law states that the vehicle can only be in the country for 6 months in any calendar year as a "temporary import". It is the same in all EU states.


Sorry but I think this is wrong.

According to this link - Car registration and taxes - Your Europe

Provided you are a non-resident (of Spain) then a UK plated vehicle can stay in Spain for as long as it wants - with no caveats.


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## chrisnation (Mar 2, 2009)

snikpoh said:


> Sorry but I think this is wrong.
> 
> According to this link - Car registration and taxes - Your Europe
> 
> Provided you are a non-resident (of Spain) then a UK plated vehicle can stay in Spain for as long as it wants - with no caveats.


I see from another site that ...

1]

Non-Residents
If you are non-resident, you may drive your British vehicle all year without changing the number plates. If the car needs an ITV (Spanish equivalent of MOT), this can be carried out in Spain but will only be valid whilst the car is being driven in Spain. You may obtain insurance for your British vehicle but will not be able to tax the vehicle here – you must apply to the relevant British authorities to obtain car tax.

Residents
If you are a resident, you will be granted a period of 6 months after obtaining your Residencia to legally “import” your vehicle.


I see from yet another site that ...

2] EU citizens who are not Spanish residents may drive their foreign-registered vehicles (cars, motorbikes and caravans) in Spain for up to 180 days (six months) in a calendar year as long as it is road-worthy in the country in which it is registered. In this case, only the owner of the vehicle may drive it.

A foreign-registered vehicle may remain in Spain for more than 180 days in a calendar year as long as it is not driven. Even though EU citizens are no longer required to obtain a residence card, after 182 days the vehicle must be registered in Spain or garaged.

Note: the six month period need not be consecutive and is counted over the course of a calendar year only. This period is based on the owner's and not the car's presence in Spain.

I'm a bit sceptical about the non-res advice from the #1 mob. I think my head is starting to hurt again, tho' I have kissed goodbye to the idea of plating my RHD camper van.

The thing that seems to cause disagreement is the 'car or owner' question of being in Sp.

As I read it, if you are NOT A SIGNED-UP RESIDENT the car can remain in Sp ad naus on UK plates and be used for 26 weeks in a calendar year. If you [the person] skip the country before totalling up 183 days in the cal year, you maintain non-res status. So, if you get your timing right, with Jan 1st as the mid-point of 365 days, you could be in Sp as a non-res and use your car on UK plates, for a day or two short of 365.

How the blazes can you prove that you have not used a vehicle on UK plates for more than 26 weeks? Because I have a dark suspicion that the GC will lay the burden of proof that you have not exceeded the limit on the owner.

Has anyone had to do that? Let's hear how, please

I'm not advocating this tactic merely as a means of avoiding doing the 'docamenti' as a resident or plating a car but for anyone whose movements around Europe are frequent and extensive, as I intend mine to be.

It seems that the EU has not succeeded, so far, in harmonising what would be one of the most useful of harmonisations, vehicle registration, MoTing and driver licencing regs.

It's far worse at sea. A UK sailor can go to sea in a sieve, with no qualifications at all. The sieve - or any other vessel under 24 metres - does not need to be registered. The regs I have read up on for ownership and operation of a small boat based in Sp - even down to the tender of another boat - [taxation, registration, qualification] makes me weep and, reluctantly, 'swallow the anchor'.

The to-ing and fro-ing by the yotties must be mind-bending. Countries have had centuries to layer up the regs for vessels. Some countries, eg UK, have chopped away almost all of them for vessels under 24 metres - and I can tell you that a 23 metre sailing vessel will set you back many mi££ions. Spain has regs regarding a 2.5m inflatable....


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

chrisnation said:


> How the blazes can you prove that you have not used a vehicle on UK plates for more than 26 weeks? Because I have a dark suspicion that the GC will lay the burden of proof that you have not exceeded the limit on the owner.


yep - that's how it works

if 'they' decide that you've had the car here or used it for longer than permitted, it's up to you to prove otherwise....

I guess if you're not resident here you could keep plane tickets for example, to prove that you weren't here in the country & therefore unable to drive the car :confused2:


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

chrisnation said:


> I see from another site that ...
> 
> 1]
> 
> ...


Forget the blue and orange bits, they are wrong.

Facts here in Spain:
1 You have 90 days to register as a resident
2 You must re-register your vehicle within 90 days of your becoming resident

Assuming you leave your personal registration until the last moment (90th day - not recommended) then you have up to a further 90 days to re-register your vehicle giving you a maximum of 180 days. However if you register as a resident on, say, the tenth day of you sojourn in Spain you then have 90 days to re-register your vehicle = a maximum of 100 days. 

Instead of trying to find ways around the laws it is much easier (and cheaper) to comply.


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## chrisnation (Mar 2, 2009)

"Instead of trying to find ways around the laws it is much easier (and cheaper) to comply". [I had a feeling someone would come up with that line.]

Quite so.

I have been sent a bunch of web addresses by a pal, of outfits on the costas somewhere, who do 'docamenti' for foreign plated cars "round the back of the bike sheds". Do the drivers of these vehicles still go cold when they see a GC doing checks? I expect they do.

As I made clear in my post,_ "I'm not advocating this tactic merely as a means of avoiding doing the 'docamenti' as a resident or plating a car but for anyone whose movements around Europe are frequent and extensive, as I intend mine to be_." 

About the only line Bob Dylan ever came up with that has always stayed with me is "To live outside the law you must be honest." Living outside the law takes many forms, not necessarily illegal.

One's vehicle must be registered somewhere. The trick is, as far as I'm concerned, to register it where it is most convenient so to do, taking into account the way it is used.

For a 'family car', this is almost certainly going to be where one's paid-up, full-time bricks and mortar are. I have no issue with that.

For a camper van - my camper van - whose raison d'etre is to provide a base for me to inch round every nook and cranny in Europe, photographing the place, [because that's my game] it might be more convenient to reg in France, Germany... 

The deliberations over the Spanish regs is to get it straight, not to dodge the issue. I'm getting the hots for Sicily. I'd love to spend months there shooting a folio of pictures. I might find I end up having to reg on Italian plates.

I have seen, on camper/motorhome websites, that people do drift round Europe for many months on UK plates and other EU countries plates with no probs from the police. 

But rules is rules. I've already taken a dive, buying the vehicle, spending some money on bits I can't remove and a great deal of time doing the work. The next one, LHD, has to be wearing the right plates and I don't care what country's plates that might be.

So clearing up the evident ambiguities in Spanish regs is well worth pursuing.

Just to amuse you all. here's one I did earlier. This little chap is never going to win the Great British Bake-Off..


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

baldilocks said:


> Forget the blue and orange bits, they are wrong.
> 
> Facts here in Spain:
> 1 You have 90 days to register as a resident
> ...


I absolutely DISAGREE - the "blue bit" was correct.

It's nothing to do with whether you have registered or not. If you TRULY are a non-resident, then a UK plated vehicle can be left in Spain and driven whenever you want and for as long as you want (no 26 week limit). 

However, the key here is that you must remain a non-resident. That is, not be in Spain for more than 90 days in one chunk and not be in Spain for a total of 183 days or more in any one calendar year.


I agree with your point 1 but point 2 is wrong or at best miss-leading. You have 6 months in which to matriculate your vehicle not 90 days.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

snikpoh said:


> I
> I agree with your point 1 but point 2 is wrong or at best miss-leading. You have 6 months in which to matriculate your vehicle not 90 days.


Nope it is 90 days from when you register as a resident which many people mistakenly take as being 90 days to register as resident plus 90 days to re-register a vehicle. If you register as a resident in less that 90 days then there is a reduction from the 180 days by how much under the 90 days you register as a resident.


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## davexf (Jan 26, 2009)

Hola

Any foreign plated vehicle must be legal to drive in it's country of origin - if it needs an MOT then it is not legal to drive as I see it 

Davexf


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## gus-lopez (Jan 4, 2010)

snikpoh said:


> I absolutely DISAGREE - the "blue bit" was correct.
> 
> It's nothing to do with whether you have registered or not. If you TRULY are a non-resident, then a UK plated vehicle can be left in Spain and driven whenever you want and for as long as you want (no 26 week limit).
> 
> ...


No absolutely incorrect as is your reading of the link you posted- In ANY EU state the limit is 6 months , full stop then get it out or replate it. When I go to the UK with car or camper it is one of the first things that is asked. 
" Is the vehcile staying here ?" 
" No " 
" YOu realise that it can only be in the UK for 6 months " 
" Yes "
every year.

The link you posted States it as well. Nowhere does it state that a non resident can run around without limit.

" Temporary stays"
If you keep your normal residence from your Member State but you stay in another EU country for less than 6 months, you do not have to register your car or pay any taxes there - it will remain registered in your country of residence.

If you are staying in another EU country for less than 6 months and have not registered your car there, you may not legally lend or rent your car to a resident of that country, who may only drive your car if you are in the car with him/her.

You may, however, lend your car to visiting friends or family - provided they are not resident in your new country.

If you are staying in another country for more than 6 months, you should normally change your residence to this country and you must register your car there.


I've had all this out with both the EU & dvla & it is 6 months like the above last paragraph says-

& yes to Chrisnation the onus here is ALWAYS on you to prove you haven't /didn't wasn't etc & not on them to prove you have /did/were ,etc.

The only way is to retain ferry tickets & obtain a " certificate of non-residency "


P.S.

This bit sort of gives it away :lol:

"Exceptions to compulsory registration after 6 months"


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## Mitch1717 (Nov 7, 2014)

Wow those look amazing.j


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

gus-lopez said:


> " Temporary stays"
> If you keep your normal residence from your Member State but you stay in another EU country for less than 6 months, you do not have to register your car or pay any taxes there - it will remain registered in your country of residence.
> 
> If you are staying in another EU country for less than 6 months and have not registered your car there, you may not legally lend or rent your car to a resident of that country, who may only drive your car if you are in the car with him/her.
> ...


First of all, we're talking about being in Spain for less than 6 months so I'll ignore the rest.

The paragraph in red above is pretty clear - it doesn't mention having to remove the car or matriculate it!

What's ambiguous about that?


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## chrisnation (Mar 2, 2009)

Mitch1717 said:


> Wow those look amazing.j


I like things that look amazing. But what looks amazing, Mitch? I see no signal, as Admiral Nelson once said


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## Isobella (Oct 16, 2014)

Been lots of threads about this and no definitive answer. Like the authorities care, still plenty of UK plates around! You can easily prove which country you were in unless you never use debit cards, fill up with petrol etc.

I remember getting a lot of flak on here when I said we stayed for 5 months with our UK car. I know some who have stayed for 5 years, or more!


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## chrisnation (Mar 2, 2009)

Isobella said:


> Been lots of threads about this and no definitive answer. Like the authorities care, still plenty of UK plates around! You can easily prove which country you were in unless you never use debit cards, fill up with petrol etc.
> 
> I remember getting a lot of flak on here when I said we stayed for 5 months with our UK car. I know some who have stayed for 5 years, or more!





Isobella said:


> Been lots of threads about this and no definitive answer. Like the authorities care, still plenty of UK plates around! You can easily prove which country you were in unless you never use debit cards, fill up with petrol etc.
> 
> I remember getting a lot of flak on here when I said we stayed for 5 months with our UK car. I know some who have stayed for 5 years, or more!


Isobella, you are right. I have seen this debate - a right old ding-dong - frequently in these pages. The combatants tend to be the same individuals, too. 

What I would like to see is this 3-cornered shoot-out, like the one in "The Good, The Bad and The Ugly", leave their certainties at the door, get into a huddle with someone whose word carries the stamp of authority - an officer of the Sp MoT, the GC, a friendly lawyer - anyone whose interpretation can be attached to this forum as a sticky which 

a] removes doubt and ambiguity as far as Spanish legislation allows and 
b] thus can be taken as the best available information that enables readers to make up their minds about what they need to do, in their circumstances.

If it means chipping in to fund it, I'd be happy to throw €20 at it. There are already 11 contributors to this thread. Would €220 buy a couple of hours of some lawyer's time to read the rules and for someone to render them into reliable English?

It seems very necessary and one of the most valuable stickies this forum could possible produce.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

chrisnation said:


> Isobella, you are right. I have seen this debate - a right old ding-dong - frequently in these pages. The combatants tend to be the same individuals, too.
> 
> What I would like to see is this 3-cornered shoot-out, like the one in "The Good, The Bad and The Ugly", leave their certainties at the door, get into a huddle with someone whose word carries the stamp of authority - an officer of the Sp MoT, the GC, a friendly lawyer - anyone whose interpretation can be attached to this forum as a sticky which
> 
> ...


The trouble is we could find a solution and have it verified by a DGT Office and find that the first Guardia you come across will not accept it, he/she will take it to another DGT office and get a third answer, but in the meantime the GC individual who is accompanying you to the hole-in-the-wall to pay your on the spot fine, is the one with the gun.


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## gus-lopez (Jan 4, 2010)

snikpoh said:


> First of all, we're talking about being in Spain for less than 6 months so I'll ignore the rest.
> 
> The paragraph in red above is pretty clear - it doesn't mention having to remove the car or matriculate it!
> 
> What's ambiguous about that?


Yes but you have to tie it in with other legislation . It also doesn't state that if you are here under 6 months but over 90 days you have to register.. YOU cannot stay here for 'less than six months' if it is over 90 days YOU have to register on the foreigners list.The car then becomes immediately liable to be replated. You cannot drive it. Let me assure you that the EU rule for all & every country is 6 months for temporary importation . It is in the UK & it is heer. when they catch up with you obviously.


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## chrisnation (Mar 2, 2009)

baldilocks said:


> The trouble is we could find a solution and have it verified by a DGT Office and find that the first Guardia you come across will not accept it, he/she will take it to another DGT office and get a third answer, but in the meantime the GC individual who is accompanying you to the hole-in-the-wall to pay your on the spot fine, is the one with the gun.


I suppose this is why the UK FO covers this topic in the most minimal way. They know that whatever anybody else might say, even the Sp Gov, however genuine the attempt by the individual to comply with the regs, in the end the decisions are made on the street by "the one with the gun".

Is a disgrace.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

chrisnation said:


> I suppose this is why the UK FO covers this topic in the most minimal way. They know that whatever anybody else might say, even the Sp Gov, however genuine the attempt by the individual to comply with the regs, in the end the decisions are made on the street by "the one with the gun".
> 
> Is a disgrace.


It's the same in UK only they may not have a gun. If PC plod thinks you are suspicious no amount of angelic protestation will stop him nicking you and, if you put up the slightest amount of resistance or protest, a "gentle tap" behind the ear with his truncheon will immobilise you enough to get you into the black maria and in front of the bench the next day for resisting arrest, etc.


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## chrisnation (Mar 2, 2009)

baldilocks said:


> It's the same in UK only they may not have a gun. If PC plod thinks you are suspicious no amount of angelic protestation will stop him nicking you and, if you put up the slightest amount of resistance or protest, a "gentle tap" behind the ear with his truncheon will immobilise you enough to get you into the black maria and in front of the bench the next day for resisting arrest, etc.


The first sentence is arrant nonsense. As is "if you put up the slightest amount of resistance or protest, a "gentle tap" behind the ear with his truncheon..." . This is beyond nonsense. It's pathetic.

And to give you an example of how a British policeman _does_ listen to "angelic protestation" - or, without the emotive hyperbole, simply a reasonable case stated plainly - I was once pulled over by a policeman for cycling across the face of three lanes of traffic stationary at lights on a pedestrian crossing in Regent St. London W1.

I explained to the office that I would be turning next left, only 100 yards further on and I wanted to be on the nearside of the HGV which was first vehicle at the lights in the left lane, and the line of buses behind it. 

"Fair enough. Mind how you go". No truncheons. No "gentle taps". Just vigilance and the common sense which characterizes most UK PCs.

The police on the beat or on traffic duty DO NOT have guns, even in London. From that point on the comments are universal to all police forces, bearing in mind the provoso of " thinks you are suspicious". Nicking you if a police officer "thinks you are suspicious" is_* what he is there for.*_ Though we hope that "has reasonable grounds to believe that ..." is always the case.

What a police officer is not there for - and B/locks's has ignored the nub of my post - is to interpret the law as a matter of opinion, backed up by someone who will inevitably corroborate his version. 

And, unlike the UK, in order to avoid confiscation of vehicle, arrest, or any other more serious turn of events, the motorist is obliged to pay the penalty for presumed guilt, even if that is not the case.

It is not for nothing that the joke about Europe as Hell has "the British as the cooks, the Germans as the police ..." as opposed to Heaven where "the British are the police and the Germans as the mechanics..."

There are on-the-spot-fines in UK. There were no fines issued anywhere for not producing the 'correct docamenti'.

The GC is a police force which seems to operate with some of the attitude of its para-military dictatorship-era past still evident. My understanding is that this attitude is on the decline. If this is so it is very much to be applauded.

As there seems to be no resolution to this topic available on this forum, in this thread or any of the others that have covered it, I'd better sign out of it before I read any more inanities from a poster who, in my experience on here, seems to specialise in them


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Last month I lent our landlord Adelbert my 4x4 and trailer to take his motorbike to a motocross event. He got caught by speed cameras doing 120kmp in an 80 zone.
I of course as registered owner received notice of this and duly send a fax to the number shown on the document with Adelbert's address, passport number in the space where it asked for details of driver.
Today I received a letter from DGT demanding 300 euros fine and my driving licence to put points on, presumably.
Do they employ morons at DGT?
I've handed over the two letters, copy of fax sent to my lawyer to sort it out. Fortunately she is a good friend and won't charge for her time.
But she may have to defend me on the charge of removing Adelbert's *******.


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