# A few noob questions



## py310 (Feb 19, 2012)

I am entering my first year of college and after graduation I want to work in the UAE/ other Gulf states.

What are careers that I should look into? When I look at jobsites I see many engineer positions, but what are these like? The engineering majors at my school are notoriously hard and while I want to make good money I highly value work-life balance. Maybe there could be something earth science/chemistry related but I haven't seen many openings.

I have read conflicting things about the oil industry, with some stating its high risk and high stress while others talk about specific companies in the middle east that have a relaxed atmosphere and time for families. What is it like?

Finally whenever I watch videos about westerners living or traveling in the middle east they are always surrounded by other westerners. There was also a British article I read that was talking about how Dubai is segregated. However, I want to make friends with many groups and immerse myself (if I wanted to only be friends with westerners I'd stay here lol). I don't know how to put this into a question, but I guess I do not want to live in a "bubble."

Any advice and comments are welcome


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## Warold (May 30, 2011)

Getting into the oil industry in a middle eastern country is hard as a graduate. They tend to nationalize a lot of the graduate jobs. Best way to get there after a few years is by joining a service company such as Shlumberger or Halliburton. If you end up doing something like chemical or petroleum engineering and work for something like BP/SHell/Exxon etc it will be easier for you to apply for work in UAE (they prefer people from major companies).


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## MaidenScotland (Jun 6, 2009)

py310 said:


> I am entering my first year of college and after graduation I want to work in the UAE/ other Gulf states.
> 
> What are careers that I should look into? When I look at jobsites I see many engineer positions, but what are these like? The engineering majors at my school are notoriously hard and while I want to make good money I highly value work-life balance. Maybe there could be something earth science/chemistry related but I haven't seen many openings.
> 
> ...




Hello and welcome to the forum,

Snobbery, class and racism is alive and well in the middle east so it is not so easy to make good friends with the local inhabitants,
It's great you don't want to live in a bubble but there will be times you will be so grateful for a bubble of expats


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## py310 (Feb 19, 2012)

MaidenScotland said:


> Hello and welcome to the forum,
> 
> Snobbery, class and racism is alive and well in the middle east so it is not so easy to make good friends with the local inhabitants,
> It's great you don't want to live in a bubble but there will be times you will be so grateful for a bubble of expats


There is snobbery and racism at westerners? I know there are some south asians that get discriminated against. Does this apply to just local nationals or do other expat arabs segregate too?


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## MaidenScotland (Jun 6, 2009)

py310 said:


> There is snobbery and racism at westerners? I know there are some south asians that get discriminated against. Does this apply to just local nationals or do other expat arabs segregate too?




The higher up the ladder you are the more you will be accepted into certain circles.
The whiter your skin the better.. as far as Arabs are concerned.
Your religion also plays a big part.

I have never met so much snobbery and my kids went to English public schools, racism is rife.

One thing I have noticed is that some expats suddenly become ohh so posh.. my maid this and my driver that, the childrens nanny and so on but back home they could just about afford a Mrs Scrubbit for a few hours once a week.


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## BedouGirl (Sep 15, 2011)

MaidenScotland said:


> One thing I have noticed is that some expats suddenly become ohh so posh.. my maid this and my driver that, the childrens nanny and so on but back home they could just about afford a Mrs Scrubbit for a few hours once a week.


Totally agree. A lot of people come out to this part of the world with humility and then they suddenly find they are BIG fish in a little pond, so to speak, and become what my dear Mother would have called Big I Ams. They name drop - 'oh I had lunch with Sheikh Ali Bin Flipflop yesterday and he was saying blah, blah, blah....'. It's improved somewhat since the recession because quite a few of these people had to go home. So, now, thankfully, we don't have to listen to so many of the 'I really don't know which car to get next, getting a bit bored with the Rangey, was thinking about picking up one of those new Porsches'. 


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## py310 (Feb 19, 2012)

I always thought skin color didn't matter much to arabs, alot are pretty dark themselves. I guess muslims would be higher up? Would they see converts as strange?

Any ideas what I should major in? I don't think I want to major in chem engineering, what about mechanical engineering or chemistry or geology?

Would it be easier to try to get a job out of college in petroleum in a country like Malaysia or China or Australia, then after maybe 3 years apply in the UAE?

Not sure if there' s a thread for this but I'd like to hear about peoples experiences. What working conditions are like, how many hours a week, how stressful etc. or anything about life over there lol


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## Ogri750 (Feb 14, 2008)

If you are considering moving abroad to work, I would have thought you would have had a career plan, which would involve a decision on which field you planned to major in. I know plenty of engineers that would disagree with you on an MEng being easier. 

You asked about work conditions. This will vary depending on the job you do. My wife works in the financial centre and so she is in a nice office all year round. I am in construction so I have the heat and humidity to put up with. 

As an expat the salaries are good but you will find yourself under pressure to perform. You have to show to your employer just why you are worth the salary they are paying you and why they shouldn't employ others for a lesser salary to do the same work. 

Really do some research before deciding to move out here.


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## py310 (Feb 19, 2012)

Would it be easier to get a job in/ better working conditions in something like HR or IT? I'm looking into everything- still not sure what career I want to go into

Any blogs that would be good to read about the UAE and ME, or other sites to look at?


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## TallyHo (Aug 21, 2011)

Arabs are racist people, especially towards sub-Sahara Africans and South Asians, not to mention Indonesians and Filipinos who are viewed solely as people who scrub toilets. 

Arabs are driven by a master mentality which is reflective of their tribal origins, and the Saudis are the worst as they regard themselves 'special' due to being the home of Islam. As an liberal, progressive Saudi educated in the UK once said to me, 'Arabs need servants.' As a consequence the racism is also combined with classicism. While a standard Emirati will be polite enough to an affluent Indian, especially an affluent Muslim Indian, they will be rude and derogatory towards poor Indians regardless of the religion. Do a google search on mistreatment of maids and low income workers in the Arabian Gulf/Middle East area and you'd might be surprised by what you find. 

All Muslims say they welcome converts but at the same time a convert is never treated or recognised the same as someone born a Muslim. A standard Muslim will say he's happy that a convert has embraced Islam but given how important the local culture, history and family are within the Islamic world, the standard Muslim will also be puzzled that a convert willingly rejected his origins. They'll notice that 'betrayal' more than the convert himself might and as a result they will always keep the convert at an arm's length in most circumstances. This is especially true for men who convert rather than women due to the long history of Muslim men marrying Christian women in parts of the Islamic world. In the UAE and throughout the Gulf it's acceptable for a Muslim Arab man to marry a non-Arab, non-Muslim woman, but it is unacceptable for a Muslim woman (from anywhere) to marry a non-Muslim man.

While the UAE is home to over a hundred nationalities it's not a melting pot but rather jostling cultural groups existing side by side and rarely intermingling outside of work. The Emiratis and Gulf Arabs are tribal people and are insular and have withdrawn into their own world. The Western expats stick with one another and the other expat groups also stick with one another, largely divided on religious and economic lines. There are certainly some overlap but it's amongst, say, Western educated South Indians and Levant Arabs and the European/American/Australian expats so the cultural similarities are still more or less the same. 



py310 said:


> I always thought skin color didn't matter much to arabs, alot are pretty dark themselves. I guess muslims would be higher up? Would they see converts as strange?
> 
> Any ideas what I should major in? I don't think I want to major in chem engineering, what about mechanical engineering or chemistry or geology?
> 
> ...


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## py310 (Feb 19, 2012)

Not to keep pushing it but the reason I am looking into the UAE/Middle East is to get away from certain aspects of Western culture. I'm just disgusted by the morality and everything. I tolerate it and accept that many people live that way but I just do not want to live that way.

I think I can kind of understand the tribal/insular thing. Some friends and I once went to a greek orthodox church and were stared at and treated as outsiders since everyone was greek and knew each other. At my school the East Asians are also like that. 

Thanks for the input everyone. While generalizations may to apply to a lot, maybe even most, I don't think that all Arabs are racist snobs. I hope that I can find somewhere in the ME, if not Dubai, where I do not have to live in a compound or live like I did in my home country.


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## TallyHo (Aug 21, 2011)

You clearly know very little about the Middle East and especially the Gulf region. 

If you have problems with your home country you need to do some deep soul searching and never assume that the promised land is elsewhere, especially not the Middle East. There is *no* promised land anywhere and your life is entirely what you make of it, regardless of where in the world you are. Running away to a new country is never the answer.



py310 said:


> Not to keep pushing it but the reason I am looking into the UAE/Middle East is to get away from certain aspects of Western culture. I'm just disgusted by the morality and everything. I tolerate it and accept that many people live that way but I just do not want to live that way.
> 
> I think I can kind of understand the tribal/insular thing. Some friends and I once went to a greek orthodox church and were stared at and treated as outsiders since everyone was greek and knew each other. At my school the East Asians are also like that.
> 
> Thanks for the input everyone. While generalizations may to apply to a lot, maybe even most, I don't think that all Arabs are racist snobs. I hope that I can find somewhere in the ME, if not Dubai, where I do not have to live in a compound or live like I did in my home country.


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## py310 (Feb 19, 2012)

I never said I knew a lot, but I'm trying to learn. I know the Middle East is far from the promised land and we make our own lives, but environment and culture has an impact on life wouldn't you agree? 

For example after the earthquake in Japan, there was very little looting and everyone was helping each other out. Compare that to how people responded to Hurricane Katrina. I don't have problems with my country, I just have problems with some parts of the culture and society and legal system that I don't want to go into detail here.


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## TallyHo (Aug 21, 2011)

From what I gather of Katrina (and it happened when I lived in the US) there was looting by a small subset of the population in New Orleans. Was it representative of the general behaviour of the US population? No, of course not.

Since you are concerned about potential looting behaviour, violence and looting has happened in the Mid-East. Violence is also more likely to happen in large parts of the Middle East than anywhere in the US. 

The United States or any western nation are not places of poor values and poor environments. Everywhere I worked and travelled in the US the Americans were always friendly and polite and responsible, so what exactly is your gripe? If you're dissatisfied with your friends, find new ones. Moving to a new country is never the answer if you're running away from problems. 



py310 said:


> I never said I knew a lot, but I'm trying to learn. I know the Middle East is far from the promised land and we make our own lives, but environment and culture has an impact on life wouldn't you agree?
> 
> For example after the earthquake in Japan, there was very little looting and everyone was helping each other out. Compare that to how people responded to Hurricane Katrina. I don't have problems with my country, I just have problems with some parts of the culture and society and legal system that I don't want to go into detail here.


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## Jynxgirl (Nov 27, 2009)

Curious, are you a convert? Are you male or female? 

As much as I enjoy and like my arab friends, I have to overall agree with TallyHo. The arab population is more concerned with looking like they are doing right, rather then actually just doing right. Can't lump everyone together though. You can find arabs with high morals just same as in the usa, but seems to be a LOT harder to do so here. I might meet 50 really disgusting men here, to find one decent one. Where in the usa, might take talking to 3 or 4 men, to find one who is a bit 'better', but hardly ever run across the same caliber of disgusting men that one can find here. Half of it is cultural, as a decent islamic man, shouldnt be really talking to woman.  If they were sent out of the gcc to be educated, then will be a bit more open minded, and some even get that is possible for a man and a woman to not sleep together but do things. But even alot of western educated gcc arabs, still see western (or non arab I should say) woman as toys. Sometimes it takes a while to suss them out :boxing:

Morals here are questionable if you just dust the surface. Hotels are filled with arabic MARRIED men, local, saudi, and all the other gcc men alike and prostitutes are so rampant here you would think they were importing them in at a ratio of 2 to 1 for every 'normal' person brought in. Islam itself is a relgion where you are suppose to help others but it is quite disturbing how half the population is treated, and even more so when you begin to realize how many of these people are 'muslims'. Single western expats tend to be on high salary and away from their families, and to say their morals are thrown out the window as well, is being nice. Dating for a single lady, isnt the easiest... In the largest cities, Dubai and Abu Dhabi, the services/hospitality industry is filled with people who care little about their job as they are given a contract for a set period of time and in no way will ever have the chance to move up in job status but just there to fill a spot and get their check (and to try and marry a westerner  ) that causes a bit of frustration to say the least. Once you get out of these emirates/cities though, there are less westerners, less of these imported workers, and might be a bit more what you are looking for. RAK, Fujeirah and Al Ain come to mind as places you may want to look at. You might want to look at Oman as well. They dont have an imported influx of westerners and asians. They locals actually work and take pride in doing so. Is night and day. 

If you are going to go to school to get a career to make a move, then maybe I can suggest to become a teacher. There are always western expat schools and teachers make decent salaries that will allow you to live a decent life in the middle east, as well as being able to easily go to other countries as a teacher. I would suggest though, do not come over to get a low paying job and scrape by thinking you can do the minimum wage job/live simple type thing, that one can do in the usa. You havent seen poor until you seen how half of the population of the uae lives  So many people like to act like that part of the uae doesnt exist.


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