# 12 Month Home Lease



## FxDragons (Dec 7, 2012)

I am going to the Phils for at least a year and looking for a western style home in a gated community in the Manila area to lease. 12 months minimum. Are there any recommendations or more importantly any recommendations to stay away from?


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## gavison (Jun 18, 2012)

try here for a start

http://www.islandsproperties.com/

more specifically

http://www.islandsproperties.com/rentals/houses.htm

and here

http://www.expatriates.com/classifieds/mnl/housingavailable/

good luck


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## Asian Spirit (Mar 1, 2010)

*Houses*



FxDragons said:


> I am going to the Phils for at least a year and looking for a western style home in a gated community in the Manila area to lease. 12 months minimum. Are there any recommendations or more importantly any recommendations to stay away from?


I'll jump in here for a second. Be sure that no matter what any real estate agent or anyone else that is renting, leasing, or selling a home, apartment, or condo in the Philippines tells you - never, never, NEVER send a deposit or advance payments of any kind. There is little accountability here and even less in law enforcement and your $$$ would likely be gone. Do business on an in person basis only.


Gene
Site Moderator


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## Mug (Sep 28, 2012)

Just read a list of 10 worst cities in the world to live in on MSNBC, and Manila was listed as #4 because of population density and the weather, typhoons etc. The ones listed as worse were the capital of North Korea, some murder capital of the world in Honduras, and a radioactive city in Ukraine that will be uninhabitable for 20,000 years. Just thought you might want to know. On the other hand, Boracay was listed as a great place to vacation/retire in International Living Magazine.


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## jon1 (Mar 18, 2012)

Gene and Viol said:


> I'll jump in here for a second. Be sure that no matter what any real estate agent or anyone else that is renting, leasing, or selling a home, apartment, or condo in the Philippines tells you - never, never, NEVER send a deposit or advance payments of any kind. There is little accountability here and even less in law enforcement and your $$$ would likely be gone. Do business on an in person basis only.
> 
> 
> Gene
> Site Moderator


Also, once you sign a lease, typically a 2 month security deposit is required. Do not expect to see 1 peso of that back at the end of the lease. It's very hard to get the refund as they will come up with all sorts of BS reasons (lightbulbs, damages, etc.) and will flat out to refuse to refund the money. They play the card that you will be leaving the country. Your only hope on the recovery is if you stay in country and threaten them with a letter from a lawyer. Fastest refund I ever got was 45 days. Longest was 6 months.



Mug said:


> Just read a list of 10 worst cities in the world to live in on MSNBC, and Manila was listed as #4 because of population density and the weather, typhoons etc. The ones listed as worse were the capital of North Korea, some murder capital of the world in Honduras, and a radioactive city in Ukraine that will be uninhabitable for 20,000 years. Just thought you might want to know. On the other hand, Boracay was listed as a great place to vacation/retire in International Living Magazine.



Don't forget; Traffic (can take 2 hours to cross Manila at times), Corrupt cops (always stopping you for "smoke belching"/"swerving", crazy traffic flow design, Pollution, crime and the overall attitude of wanting to take advantage of the foreigners.... After having lived there, my blood pressure always goes up immediately upon reaching the city limits. I travel there only as required and try to minimize the trips.


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## richardsinger (Oct 30, 2012)

If you can get on friendly terms with your landlord/landlady, it should be possible to persuade them to use the security deposit as rental in the final month(s) of your tenancy. Assuming they can see that you are taking care of their place of course. 

Richard


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## proudpinay (Dec 6, 2012)

Mug said:


> Just read a list of 10 worst cities in the world to live in on MSNBC, and Manila was listed as #4 because of population density and the weather, typhoons etc. The ones listed as worse were the capital of North Korea, some murder capital of the world in Honduras, and a radioactive city in Ukraine that will be uninhabitable for 20,000 years. Just thought you might want to know. On the other hand, Boracay was listed as a great place to vacation/retire in International Living Magazine.


I agree with you on this. I wouldn't choose Manila for myself. If you want a gated community, there are many here but it might be a bit expensive like in Bel-Air, Dasma Village and Forbes. Those are expensive houses within Makati Business districts, but has a very high security.

If you want a mix of lifestyle and city, but still serene and secure, there are many condos you will find in Makati and Fort Bonifacio.

Fully furnished ones are between 100-250k for 3BR. 50-130k for 2BR, and 40-90k for 1BR. It depends on how posh you want.

And yes, Boracay is the best if you want an island living


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## proudpinay (Dec 6, 2012)

jon1 said:


> Also, once you sign a lease, typically a 2 month security deposit is required. Do not expect to see 1 peso of that back at the end of the lease. It's very hard to get the refund as they will come up with all sorts of BS reasons (lightbulbs, damages, etc.) and will flat out to refuse to refund the money. They play the card that you will be leaving the country. Your only hope on the recovery is if you stay in country and threaten them with a letter from a lawyer. Fastest refund I ever got was 45 days. Longest was 6 months.
> .


Normally 2mos advance payment (credited for the first and last month) + 1 month security deposit will be required. Post-dated cheques for the remaining months.

The reason why security deposit is asked is because there are normally damages and unpaid bills that landlord will discover only about a month after the property is vacated. The worst I encountered is that my tenant left the property ransacked, and did not pay for electricity. We had to deduct everything from the security deposit, and the damages were really high. If security deposit was not collected, it's too much pain.

Make sure to advise the broker and the landlord at least a month before vacating the place, so they could arrange your refund properly.

Good luck!


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## Asian Spirit (Mar 1, 2010)

*Risk Taking*



proudpinay said:


> Ok, I'd like to react in this for a bit (since I'm in the industry, and this is the issue we hate arguing about). Most foreigns, due to lack of trust, gives us brokers a hard time explaining about the requirement (deposit and advance payments). Apparently, some issues make them paranoid, that even if we kept on explaining the practice, they just don't want to understand.
> 
> Check the legitimacy of the person you are speaking with. Make sure licensed brokers (check for PRC License #) so you could easily trace them IN CASE they do anything stupid with your money.
> 
> Cheers!


The vast numbers of those who have lost money trusting real estate or any other kind of company here show the opposite to be true. Granted, there may be businesses that are honest and aboveboard but the chance of finding one and coming out ahead is more risky than a Las Vegas casino. There is no reason to part with cash unless or until one is here in country for any major purchase. Simply put - it is not worth the risk.


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## proudpinay (Dec 6, 2012)

Gene and Viol said:


> The vast numbers of those who have lost money trusting real estate or any other kind of company here show the opposite to be true. Granted, there may be businesses that are honest and aboveboard but the chance of finding one and coming out ahead is more risky than a Las Vegas casino. There is no reason to part with cash unless or until one is here in country for any major purchase. Simply put - it is not worth the risk.


Point taken. Yes, I failed to see the part that you were referring to "person-to-person" transaction. And yes, I agree with that 

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## richardsinger (Oct 30, 2012)

I agree with Gene and Viol. You need to be here, and meet up in person with the owner or at least with the owner's agent, and get copies of their IDs and particulars, before parting with cash for deposits or advance rental payments. Otherwise you have no idea where your money is going.

Richard


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## Mug (Sep 28, 2012)

proudpinay said:


> Normally 2mos advance payment (credited for the first and last month) + 1 month security deposit will be required. Post-dated cheques for the remaining months.
> 
> The reason why security deposit is asked is because there are normally damages and unpaid bills that landlord will discover only about a month after the property is vacated. The worst I encountered is that my tenant left the property ransacked, and did not pay for electricity. We had to deduct everything from the security deposit, and the damages were really high. If security deposit was not collected, it's too much pain.
> 
> ...


Post-dated checks is meaningless. No matter what date is on a check it is payable to the holder IMMEDIATELY. Everyone should be aware of this.


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## proudpinay (Dec 6, 2012)

Mug said:


> Post-dated checks is meaningless. No matter what date is on a check it is payable to the holder IMMEDIATELY. Everyone should be aware of this.


Hmmm... I don't get it. That's why it's Post-Dated, because bank has to follow the date on the cheque.

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## Mug (Sep 28, 2012)

proudpinay said:


> Hmmm... I don't get it. That's why it's Post-Dated, because bank has to follow the date on the cheque.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using ExpatForum


The bank does NOT have to honor the date on the check if it is in the future, checks are payable on demand and can be cashed immediately no matter what date is on the check. Here in the USA it happens all the time. Cannot imagine Philippines is different.


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## proudpinay (Dec 6, 2012)

Mug said:


> The bank does NOT have to honor the date on the check if it is in the future, checks are payable on demand and can be cashed immediately no matter what date is on the check. Here in the USA it happens all the time. Cannot imagine Philippines is different.


I don't think it's allowed here. I get payments from all my clients in form of cheque. I was never able to have it encashed on an earlier date 

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## jon1 (Mar 18, 2012)

First let me qualify what I am going to say. I am by far no expert or real estate agent but a consumer. I have been here since 2007 and thru my personal and business life, I have signed no fewer than 30 leases in the Philippines. Out of those, maybe 25% of them returned the security deposits and of those returned only 6 were in full. I can assure you that NONE of those residences were trashed or had damages that the landlords claimed. They just came up with BS reasons to withhold and most used it for refurbishing/remodeling their units with real furniture vs the cheap stuff that they had in them. 

Now back on topic. 

I have never seen less than a 2 month deposit security deposit. 

There are a couple of ways to get a lease over here;

Now if you do the first and last as proudpinay says she does. Then you should be able to get into a residence for usually a total of 3 months rent. Then you are paying monthly and you let them know that you are moving out/renewing (usually 30+ days PRIOR to lease termination). To get a lease like this, the landlords typically want post dated checks for the lease duration. Most foreigners (as Mug stated) are hesitant to do this, as any check written in their home country HAS to be honored (even if deposited PRIOR to check written date). You DO NOT want to bounce a check over here as it is a criminal offense and can result in jail time (unlike the US where you just pay a penalty and life moves on). You can however work with the landlord and get them to accept monthly payments (usually cash) or possibly quarterly payments. I was able to do this in one instance by building a rapport with the landlord.

The second method is to get a 6 to 12 month lease paid up front. When landlords are dealing with foreigners they see $$$ and usually want ALL of the $ up front. Especially if it is for a person doing business over here (in their defense, some companies do not last the whole year). Most of the time, the Company will want to do this as it also makes it easier for them with their books and less international transactions. Even with the 6 to 12 months you can get the first and last option, you just have to negotiate that. If they balk and you end up having to pay the 6-12 PLUS 2 months deposit, you may want to reconsider the lease. If you are in a pinch and have to, do not expect the landlord to return the deposit $ (and if they do, expect a long time for return of whatever they may or may not return). Have this stipulated in the lease agreement (typically 30 days past the end of the lease). This is the scenario that I was previously referring to on the landlord banking on you/your company not being in country post-lease and they will drag their feet to return the $.

When it comes to agents you HAVE to be sure. I was able to locate a reputable broker that specialized in Expat Company housing thru a business partner. Another option is to go to the Administration office of the condos that you are considering and get a list of AUTHORIZED brokers for that building.

Another stumbling block to look out for is unit maintenance. Get it CLEARLY stated in the lease, what the landlord and tenant are responsible for. Typically you will see a statement like "If it is over 5000pesos in work the landlord will provide the maintenance". In Manila, you will need to get your A/C cleaned at least every other month (due to the pollution, typically costs around 500p/unit). If not, you can almost expect the unit to fail prior to the end of your lease. The landlord will say it's your fault because you didn't clean it (even though the repairs are more than 5000 pesos) and do you really want to wait for them to repair/replace the unit in the heat of Manila???

Makati is Manila. It is not a nice area. It is the financial district for Manila and an expensive area that is full of traffic and people (official/private) looking to grift you. The only nice thing about Makati is the proliferation of western style restaurants/shops.

The Fort Bonafacio (still Manila) area is nicer. A little less traffic, decent amount of shops, restaurants and grocery stores. Conveniently close to Makati (if that is where your office is). 

Bel-Air is where the US Embassy person was just killed in November (No FBI probe in Bel-Air murder, US embassy says | ABS-CBN News).

As far as finding a house to rent it is harder but very expensive 100-200k php/month. This depends on the location and size of the house. If going the house route, you will need to procure transportation. As it is a royal pain in the a** to get a taxi into your gated community. That will be another expense to factor.

Prior to paying/signing the lease do a thorough walk thru inspection of the unit and identify ALL broken/damaged items to be repaired/replaced and have that added to the agreement (along with the inventory of the unit). Do NOT let the landlord talk you into signing the lease and paying PRIOR to them making all repairs (repainting, etc.). Otherwise they will drag their feet every step of the way once they have their $ and the repairs/replacements may or may not happen. Prior to termination of the lease a similar walk thru/inventory will have to be done. Believe me it will be THOROUGH and the landlord will try to stick you for everything from glasses and light bulbs to forks as deductions from your deposit (which most of us would be viewed as consumables as they are cheap and things break/get lost).

The final thing is getting the $ moved over here to make your payment. If doing the full annual payment you will most likely have to do a wire transfer (bank to bank). You will have to get the landlord's bank address, contact number, account, and swift code (what would be called a routing number in the US). You will have to pay a fee for your US bank (and typically the destination bank 2-300php). The fastest I have seen this money come available on the PI end is 3 business days (typically 5). So make sure that you and the landlord are prepared for that.

Again, this is all based on MY experiences. This is not meant to offend anyone but a statement of facts. Others may differ. I am sure that there are honest landlords/brokers out there (I have found some) but it is a new relationship that you have to build to gain each other's trust. For some it won't matter. Most it does.


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## Asian Spirit (Mar 1, 2010)

*The Philippine Facts Of Life*



jon1 said:


> First let me qualify what I am going to say. I am by far no expert or real estate agent but a consumer. I have been here since 2007 and thru my personal and business life, I have signed no fewer than 30 leases in the Philippines. Out of those, maybe 25% of them returned the security deposits and of those returned only 6 were in full. I can assure you that NONE of those residences were trashed or had damages that the landlords claimed. They just came up with BS reasons to withhold and most used it for refurbishing/remodeling their units with real furniture vs the cheap stuff that they had in them.
> 
> Now back on topic.
> 
> ...


Jon, that has to be the most complete, honest, and well written statement on the way things really are here. Every word is fact and for so many that get sucked into a bad situation, they are painful facts of life in the Philippines. One of the biggest problems is also that even with proof that money was paid or is owed to you in the form of a refund, is that the law simply does not work here most of the time. To get things moving and get the law to do it's job, one has to pay- and pay - and pay to get the case filed as well as to see it through to the end. Often times the cost of filing the case as well as legal and incidental expenses will be more that the award you are seeking.
So as Jon is saying here; know what you are getting into from the git-go. Do not trust landlords or property management/real estate companies any farther than you could throw an aircraft carrier! Cover your butt six ways from Sunday and hopefully you will do alright.
Thanks Jon for a great post that truly says what needed to be said by someone with plenty of personal experience :tea:...


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## jon1 (Mar 18, 2012)

Gene and Viol said:


> Jon, that has to be the most complete, honest, and well written statement on the way things really are here. Every word is fact and for so many that get sucked into a bad situation, they are painful facts of life in the Philippines. One of the biggest problems is also that even with proof that money was paid or is owed to you in the form of a refund, is that the law simply does not work here most of the time. To get things moving and get the law to do it's job, one has to pay- and pay - and pay to get the case filed as well as to see it through to the end. Often times the cost of filing the case as well as legal and incidental expenses will be more that the award you are seeking.
> So as Jon is saying here; know what you are getting into from the git-go. Do not trust landlords or property management/real estate companies any farther than you could throw an aircraft carrier! Cover your butt six ways from Sunday and hopefully you will do alright.
> Thanks Jon for a great post that truly says what needed to be said by someone with plenty of personal experience :tea:...


You are welcome Gene.

No need for someone to relearn other's mistakes. 

You are spot on about the legal expenses. If you have to fight for the $ back, a legal letter notifying the landlord of intent to prosecute if no return usually prompts some kind of return. If it doesn't it's not worth pursuing further.

I think some of the problems arise from people being green coming into the initial transaction and rub the landlord wrong with an attitude from the states vs being a little more diplomatic (start off with the wrong foot).


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## c_uk (Oct 24, 2012)

jon1 said:


> First let me qualify what I am going to say. I am by far no expert or real estate agent but a consumer. I have been here since 2007 and thru my personal and business life, I have signed no fewer than 30 leases in the Philippines. Out of those, maybe 25% of them returned the security deposits and of those returned only 6 were in full. I can assure you that NONE of those residences were trashed or had damages that the landlords claimed. They just came up with BS reasons to withhold and most used it for refurbishing/remodeling their units with real furniture vs the cheap stuff that they had in them.
> 
> Now back on topic.
> 
> ...


This is very useful and objective post.


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