# Valle De Bravo



## grammykathy

My husband and I are moving to Valle for his job. We would like to find other expats there. We also need advice on cable TV, internet etc. Please no realtors. We are provided company housing.


----------



## conklinwh

I haven't heard of expats on this forum from Valle de Bravo. Closest was a person thinking about opening a school there but that over six months ago. Everything that we have heard about "the Switzerland of Mexico" has been very positive. Only somewhat negative is that can get crowded on weekends as very popular get away for affluent from Mexico City. With all the high end places I've read about there, I doubt that you will have any problem with services.


----------



## oakparkhouse

Hi - I have been researching Valle as well. Seems to be a bit more difficult to get info about than some places... 
Kathy, did you actually end up moving there?
If anyone else has information about this area (not just Valle de Bravo, but anywhere nearby...)
I would love to hear more about it.


----------



## grammykathy

oakparkhouse said:


> Hi - I have been researching Valle as well. Seems to be a bit more difficult to get info about than some places...
> Kathy, did you actually end up moving there?
> If anyone else has information about this area (not just Valle de Bravo, but anywhere nearby...)
> I would love to hear more about it.


Yes, we moved to Avandaro, kind of a suburb of Valle. We just returned home from a wonderful day in Valle and a drive in the mountains. We have met a few expats, not too many here. The town itself is charming. We love it here. If I can find out how to attach pictures I will post some.


----------



## grammykathy

Hopefully I picture of our beautiful Pueblo Magico


----------



## oakparkhouse

Thanks SO much for the reply! I really appreciate it. Enjoyed your photo. We have spent quite a bit of time with Google maps, so I am familiar with Avandaro and other towns in the area. The entire area looks really beautiful. 
Have you been there in the coldest months? When I look at the weather and climate info online it is unclear. The weather stations that are used for reporting Valle seem to actually be located in Toluca (can't tell for sure, but that's how it appears). Do you know of reliable weather and climate information links? Or, if not, would you be willing to share a bit of what you have learned about that?
Again, thanks so much for posting! I am very grateful!
Deborah


----------



## grammykathy

oakparkhouse said:


> Thanks SO much for the reply! I really appreciate it. Enjoyed your photo. We have spent quite a bit of time with Google maps, so I am familiar with Avandaro and other towns in the area. The entire area looks really beautiful.
> Have you been there in the coldest months? When I look at the weather and climate info online it is unclear. The weather stations that are used for reporting Valle seem to actually be located in Toluca (can't tell for sure, but that's how it appears). Do you know of reliable weather and climate information links? Or, if not, would you be willing to share a bit of what you have learned about that?
> Again, thanks so much for posting! I am very grateful!
> Deborah


In the winter months the nighttime gets cold, but never freezing. It is warm and sunny during the day. The houses here have fireplaces, no heaters or air conditioners. Some of our friends use electric blankets at night, but most do not. I have not been here in winter yet, came in March, but my husband has and did not find it too cold. Many houses have a fireplace in the bedroom. Firewood is cheap and sold on almost every corner. Right now we are in the tail end of the rainy season. It is warm and sunny until late in the afternoon and incredible storms come in. I love it. Today it was so warm, we needed shorts. The rain just ended in time to BBQ for dinner.


----------



## oakparkhouse

That sounds pretty nice! We really like cool to cold nights. We live in SoCal and would really like more rain than we get here. (I love to garden and I LOVE trees.) That said, we've spent time in the Northwest - and I really don't like weeks of solid cloud cover. I really like to see that sun peeking through! Some of the plants that grow where you are, grow here as well (e.g. bouganvilla and jacaranda trees) so I imagined that it must not freeze much. (Bouganvillas aren't too happy with freezes - we've lost 2 that way
I had guessed that the expat community was small to non-existent, given the lack of blogs etc. Can you tell me anything about the community that exists? Do they have commonalities? Are they really diverse? What has brought them there?
Any information you are willing to share, I will happily and eagerly read! 
Thanks a bunch!!!


----------



## ahoffer

I actually live in zinacantepec which is about 76 kilos from there. My house unfortunantly does not have a fireplace. So I guess I'm fixing to freeze my tail off. Good luck to you


----------



## oakparkhouse

ahoffer said:


> I actually live in zinacantepec which is about 76 kilos from there. My house unfortunantly does not have a fireplace. So I guess I'm fixing to freeze my tail off. Good luck to you


Hi Alisha - thanks for posting. (This is a rather quiet thread.) The elevation where you are is pretty high. How are you enjoying it there? The country and mountains in the area look really amazing! One thing I AM trying to figure out is what the maximum elevation I can get to WITHOUT freezing my ass off
I hope your life there with your kids goes so great! I had hoped to get out of country while my daughter was younger...that didn't work out - and now, when it happens, she'll be off in college. 
Anyhow... what have you learned so far about how elevation and climate interrelate in Central Mexico?


----------



## dongringo

A nice review of Valle de Bravo just appeared
Noticias locas - PROPONEN PERMITIR LANZAMIENTO DE ENANOS EN BARES Mexico City's elite escape to Valle de Bravo


----------



## dongringo

A nice review of Valle de Bravo just appeared
Mexico City's elite escape to Valle de Bravo
http://www.mercurynews.com/travel/ci_19156894


----------



## ahoffer

Hi! Your welcome. Yeah it is pretty high here. I think 5000-5500ft. We love it here. It was a big change coming from myrtle beach with the summers in the 100s and at sea level. The first few months were difficult adjusting to the altitude. I stashed electric blankets, electric sheets and a heater in my luggage and am so happy I did. I am trying to get hubby to make a fireplace but he keeps saying no. Apparently they like to freeze and wear 6 layers of clothes. Right now its warm and sunny in the day and mornings and nights are really cold. I did not need an air conditioner in the summer because the concrete houses insulate pretty well. So far when its cold outside it stays pretty warm in the house. We have a huge skylight in the middle of our house and the sun is pretty hot so it helps warm it up. Its so beautiful to wake up and look out the window and see the volcano and the mountains. They do not get snow here either. My sister in law said shes never seen it in all her years. We have a rainy season in july-mid- october. It finally let up. It only usually rains in the afternoon and nights. That gives you time to let your clothes dry on the lines. Aside from the culture shock I really like it here. I hope your move goes well! Let me know if you have anymore questions. I really like the change of talking to people that speak english. (I'm forgetting some of the names of things)


----------



## oakparkhouse

I very much enjoyed the description you gave of your transition. Thanks so much for sharing that. These kinds of conversations are really fun for me I would be more than happy to stay in touch if that helps meet a need to keep up your English. I notice that we are off topic of the thread now... and I want to be respectful of this forum. If it would be easier to do that via email, I would be open to that. Or, we could figure out a way to 'thread hop' I am new to these types of forums and don't know my way around well. I am more accustomed to yahoo groups and such...
Any which way... thanks so much for posting. It was a joy to read about your experience.


----------



## froggie

*valle de bravo*



grammykathy said:


> My husband and I are moving to Valle for his job. We would like to find other expats there. We also need advice on cable TV, internet etc. Please no realtors. We are provided company housing.


Hi - i live in valle and love it. We rent an apartment here with a lake view for a really reasonable price. We don't have cable TV - We have high-speed internet with telmex and we watch tv shows and movies with netflix and rent online from iTunes. I keep in touch with friends and family with Skype. When we first ordered cable/phone it took 2 weeks to get it installed. 

There is a Che (supermarket) here where you can find a lot of imported foods you may want to have on hand. with our rental, we had to buy a fridge but this rental came with a stove. Our past rentals did not. We prefer an unfurnished rental and have bought some basic furniture here - some is pretty reasonable.

I love the quiet weekdays and the busy weekends when more people are in town. There are some nice galleries and shops and we don't find it necessary to have a car.

So when are you moving or have you already moved?


----------



## Hound Dog

[_QUOTE=ahoffer;633714]Hi! Your welcome. Yeah it is pretty high here. I think 5000-5500ft. We love it here. It was a big change coming from myrtle beach with the summers in the 100s and at sea level. The first few months were difficult adjusting to the altitude. )/QUOTE]_

Now, look, ahoffer, I know you are from Myrtle Beach and The Dawg lived for a few years in Bayou La Batre near the shores of Mobile Bay but I must tell you that, while neither of us is (or was) accustomed to high altitudes, your estimates of the heights of Valle de Bravo and Zinacantepec are a little on the light side. I believe Valle de Bravo to be at a little over 6,000 feet and Zinacantepec to be a little over 9,000 feet which is way up there and a damn cold place. 

Dawg lives part time at Lake Chapala at 5,000 feet and the rest of the year each year in San Cristóbal de Las Casas in the Chiapas Highlands at 7,000 feet and surrounded by towns as high as 11,000 feet. The area you speak of is near Toluca which is one of the coldest urban places in Mexico so, if I were you, I´d be heading to Toluca to the nearest Home Depot for some propane wall heaters and maybe contract with someone to build me a nice fireplace. 

You may not know this but it can actually freeze at night in the Toluca area and it even snows at times although rarely. Get yourself some longjohns and those propane heaters because you have a cold winter coming up during the night and even during the day when it´s overcast.

¡Brrrrrrh!!!!


----------



## quarfelburg

Hey everyone,

I'm new to the forum, this is my first post... hopefully people are still following it!

I have lived in Valle de Bravo for about a year and a half now. We made the decision to move from Toronto after spending 7 winters here. My wife is Vallesana, I have 2 kids ages 6 and 8 that go to an excellent private school here (head and shoulders above Toronto's public school system which is decent).

I'm keen to meet any expats that are living in Valle, and to answer anyone's questions about living here. 

Thanks!
Hayden


----------



## jonnypo

*Tell Me More...*

Hello Hayden,

I'm brand new to this forum and I'm very interested in relocating my family to Valle De Bravo. My employer will allow me to work from anywhere in the world with reliable/fast internet and close enough to a major airport that it doesn't cost a fortune to fly me to the States a couples times a year. *I need at least 3 meg download speeds all day long (20 meg is preferred)*. Can I get ISP like this in Valle? Also very interested to know* how much rent will be for a nice home* close'ish to town (250+ square meters, nice finishes, large rooms, high ceilings, on some land with a view). I don't even know if there is many home like this for rent. I'm in for the slower lifestyle, cost savings and early retirement but to convince the rest of my family I will need to maintain most of the comforts and convenices they are used to on a 6 figure budget in the States. Good news is that we are used to the cold so that won't be an issue. There's been snow one the ground here for 2 weeks! I'd very much appreciate to learn whatever you are willing to share.


----------



## quarfelburg

Hey there,

The internet here is quite good. I work online all day and never have issues. Cable is 5mb and DSL is 3mb, I used to have both just in case one went out, but now only keep the DSL which is very reliable.

Rent for a nice up-scale home that size in town would likely be $1000+/mo, if you go even 15 min drive from town you could get it for more like $600. Here I have a higher quality of life on $2000/mo than I do in Toronto on $10000/mo. And the weather in Valle is just sublime, many think it the best on earth and it's the reason world paragliding competitions are held here.


----------



## jonnypo

That's excellent news! I would like to keep it under 10,000 pesos per month for rent and hoped that would include internet and telephone service. Sounds like that's quite possible. Sounds like we have similar backgrounds. I'm 28 w/ wife and 1 kid (soon to be 2 kids). We spend about the same here in WA as you did in Toronto so I think your breakdown of monthly expenses (I saw on a separate post) would be pretty similar for us too. I would like to pick your brain more if you're up for it. Interested in private schools, safety of the city and surrounding areas and public transportation (if any).

-Jon


----------



## quarfelburg

No problem, send me a pm.


----------



## lukaluka

*looking for a job*

I will like to relocate to Valle this year and would like to find a job where I can use my bilingual skills.
Any recommendations?


----------



## jonnypo

lukaluka said:


> I will like to relocate to Valle this year and would like to find a job where I can use my bilingual skills.
> Any recommendations?


I don't live there yet so I can't be of much help but I have done a lot of research and there is a private school called Escuela Valle De Bravo that teaches all their classes in English and Spanish. I think they have 200+ student from pre-K through teenagers so that could be an option.

I'm researching prices for renting homes and cost to buy land. Both seem very high (like as high or higher than Washington State) and I'm hoping that the numbers I see online are fairy tail numbers like I've heard from a few sources. And that the real price negotiated in Spanish in person would be half or less. Again...I'm hoping. Not interested in paying $1500/month for rent and $50,000+ per acre of raw land.


----------



## quarfelburg

Yes my kids go to Escuela Valle de Bravo, it's a great school. My wife also taught art there, but had to quit for health reasons. But keep in mind the wages are Mexican wages. High for Mexico, a bit over 100 pesos an hour with benefits, but that's barely over minimum wage in the US.

There is also a Montessori and a Waldorf school here that are both looking for teachers. I imagine pay is similar.

Yes the prices you are seeing are the foreigner prices - especially the rent. Pricing for land is per square meter, and if you don't want a huge piece and you want to be central you will pay 1000 pesos+ per sq/m. So an acre will cost you 30k or so. 

If you want to of course you can pay a lot more, and you could also probably pay a bit less. What I consider the perfect piece of land is something central, yet away from it all (there's a lot of that in Valle). Basically a road that goes up hill right in the center of town and leads to a quiet little uninhabited forest. The land I like that is like that is 1600 pesos a square meter, though I'm sure it could be brought down.


----------



## mickisue1

jonnypo said:


> I don't live there yet so I can't be of much help but I have done a lot of research and there is a private school called Escuela Valle De Bravo that teaches all their classes in English and Spanish. I think they have 200+ student from pre-K through teenagers so that could be an option.
> 
> I'm researching prices for renting homes and cost to buy land. Both seem very high (like as high or higher than Washington State) and I'm hoping that the numbers I see online are fairy tail numbers like I've heard from a few sources. And that the real price negotiated in Spanish in person would be half or less. Again...I'm hoping. Not interested in paying $1500/month for rent and $50,000+ per acre of raw land.


Search using "se renta valle de bravo".

You'll still get some ****** rents/sale prices, but most will be closer to reality.


----------



## Hound Dog

Forget that "******" prices reference regarding rents and home purchase prices. While I have never lived in Valle de Bravo, I have visited there and, at one time, researched the notion of buying property there. Valle de Bravo is a nearby weekend getaway for the Mexico City elite and in great demand by the capital´s well-healed power establishment. Prices will be much higher there than in many of the surrounding areas and if you set your sites on equally attractive areas farther fom DF, you´ll do much better financially. "******" prices, indeed.

One characteristic I think may be said of Valle de Bravo is that it is overrun and congested on weekends and holidays and a virtual ghost town during the work week. Those of you living there correct me if I´m wrong about that.


----------



## quarfelburg

That used to be the case maybe 5+ years ago, but now central Valle is almost always congested and busy, the middle class has grown a lot and the rich tend to stay in Avandaro.

The weekend is slightly more congested but you no longer see as much as a difference. Also since the PRI came in power the weekends have been much lighter.

People who use the internet to find housing here are going to pay a hell of a lot more than your standard Mexican who goes by word of mouth as tou will be dealing with money-oriented people that understand supply and demand instead of the standard ma and pa. It's the same in the US or Canada, but def. more pronounced in Mexico. 

Many people don't care about making the most money, they just want to rent their place out to a good person who provides stable rent without drama. They own land because it was passed down in their family (and was bought for centavos), and they don't look at ROI they just want enough to live happily. We can learn a lot from that, I know I have.


----------



## Longford

:welcome:



lukaluka said:


> I will like to relocate to Valle this year and would like to find a job where I can use my bilingual skills.
> Any recommendations?


Firstly: Have you visited Valle de Bravo before and do you understand the community and region?

Secondly: The first serious challenge you'll have to overcome is compliance with the recently revised immigration regulations. That is, if you're not a Mexican national. The second is finding someone who thinks you have skills which aren't readily available there or are otherwise in short supply. The visa application process starts while you're in the USA. There is an informative discussion regarding these new immigration regulations elsewhere on the forum and it includes references to the minimum income you must be able to demonstrate either via bank accounts or guarantee of income from your employer if you receive permission to work in the country. The days of someone arriving on a tourist card and then finding work and applying for a visa to reside/work appear to have ended. 

Best of luck with your planning.


----------



## conklinwh

quarfelburg said:


> Yes my kids go to Escuela Valle de Bravo, it's a great school. My wife also taught art there, but had to quit for health reasons. But keep in mind the wages are Mexican wages. High for Mexico, a bit over 100 pesos an hour with benefits, but that's barely over minimum wage in the US.
> 
> There is also a Montessori and a Waldorf school here that are both looking for teachers. I imagine pay is similar.
> 
> Yes the prices you are seeing are the foreigner prices - especially the rent. Pricing for land is per square meter, and if you don't want a huge piece and you want to be central you will pay 1000 pesos+ per sq/m. So an acre will cost you 30k or so.
> 
> If you want to of course you can pay a lot more, and you could also probably pay a bit less. What I consider the perfect piece of land is something central, yet away from it all (there's a lot of that in Valle). Basically a road that goes up hill right in the center of town and leads to a quiet little uninhabited forest. The land I like that is like that is 1600 pesos a square meter, though I'm sure it could be brought down.


Wow! Some land price. I think your math off a little. $1000p/sqm is $80US at 12.5 pesos per dollar.
One acre is about 4,000 sq m or about $320KUSD.


----------



## quarfelburg

Thanks for the correction was missing a 0! Land is expensive here, I've heard on the other side of La Peña is some of the most expensive land in all of North America. Might be a myth though, haven't cared enough to verify it.


----------



## OnTheRoadToMexico

Hi all,
I know this is an old thread, but I've been thinking about the really lovely (if cold and expensive) Valle myself lately. And it finally occurred to me: the Mexicans who work in Valle must live somewhere close by, right? So where do THEY live?


----------



## chicois8

Mexico City......weekend homes


----------



## PanamaJack

chicois8 said:


> Mexico City......weekend homes


The ones who have weekend homes do not work in Valle de Bravo they only come and spend money on weekends and create traffic. I know I have a business there and I do 80% of my business on the weekends and during holidays and 20% Monday through Friday midday.

Some of my workers live in the perifry of Valle de Bravo away from the lake, others in La Candeleria, Santa Maria Pipioltepec, Cuadrilla de Dolores and Atezcaban as well as many other small pueblos that I do not know the names of.


----------



## OnTheRoadToMexico

Thanks, PanamaJack.


----------

