# Fiance visa to UK



## pretzelz (May 11, 2013)

Hi all, a number of clear-cut questions regarding the fiance visa vaf4a application process so I'll post them as separate threads to make them easier for others to find when search the internet.

My situation: I've had a Russian girlfriend for 2.5 years. I've visited for 3 months, she's visited me in the UK for 6 months. 

Is it highly recommended to setup a joint bank account with your fiance before they apply to join you in the UK? 

I'm expecting the answer to be no, as it doesn't seem to make much sense to set one up before actually living together, and I've heard some banks wouldn't allow it anyway.

Many Thanks.


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## pretzelz (May 11, 2013)

*Fiance visa to UK: Can I keep my lodger? Property inspection report needed?*

My situation: I've had a Russian girlfriend for 2.5 years. I've visited for 3 months, she's visited me in the UK for 6 months. 

I am a home owner with a mortgage. The house has 3 bedrooms. I currently have one lodger, not because I need the money but just because there is adequate space and its also some companionship when living alone. There are two double bedrooms available to be occupied exclusively by myself (UK) and my girlfriend if she is granted a fiance visa to join me. 

My question is: my girlfriend has said she is just fine having the lodger, maybe for another 6 months after she arrives. I would rather not ask him to leave, he's a very agreeable chap. I'm concerned however that it might look like an issue on the application form. Would I be best asking him to leave before stating an intended date for my girlfriend's arrival to the UK, or can I relax on this issue?

Further question: being a homeowner with a mortgage, is an 'independent property inspection report' really required to prove that there won't be any 'overcrowding' issues? I haven't yet started rooting for supporting documents, but I'm sure I'll find somewhere that states this is a 3 bedroom house.


Many Thanks.


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## Leanna (Oct 22, 2012)

pretzelz said:


> Hi all, a number of clear-cut questions regarding the fiance visa vaf4a application process so I'll post them as separate threads to make them easier for others to find when search the internet.
> 
> My situation: I've had a Russian girlfriend for 2.5 years. I've visited for 3 months, she's visited me in the UK for 6 months.
> 
> ...


No. You don't need a joint bank account before she joins you in the UK.


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## pretzelz (May 11, 2013)

*Fiance visa to UK: Can I propose and organize wedding/rings AFTER she arrives in UK?*

My situation: I've had a Russian girlfriend for 2.5 years. I've visited for 3 months, she's visited me in the UK for 6 months. 

I have not yet formally proposed, we have not bought rings or discussed any marriage ceremony yet. Though this is all clearly intended, we want to do this when we are actually together in person, in the UK, rather than over skype/email! 

What we have done, is discussed at length about our relationship together, and how our future life and plans could pan out past the point of actual marriage. The coming together part being much more meaningful than the festivities that might represent it.

How should I play this when it comes to us completing the fiance application? Can I state that the money is saved for rings, dress, registration and a simple ceremony, show evidence of this, but state that we would prefer to organize this when we are actually together as we believe the event is too personal to be arranging over skype? I certainly also don't really want to make any formal marriage proposal over the Internet, though as I say, we absolutely talk in terms of this of course.

And how simple or elaborate is the UKBA looking to see for wedding ceremonies? I think myself and my fiance would prefer to keep everything rather low key, as like I say, the most important thing for us is that we are finally able to come together and start a life. 

Many thanks!


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## pretzelz (May 11, 2013)

*Fiance visa to UK: Prenup discussion - seen as good or bad by UKBA?*

My situation: I've had a Russian girlfriend for 2.5 years. I've visited for 3 months, she's visited me in the UK for 6 months. 

Being the underpinning planner that I am, I've put forward by email, what I propose as something fair to consider for what could be the basis of a prenup that we agree on when my fiance arrives in the UK. We've then discussed it fully by skype and are both happy. (I wanted to do this well in advance of getting married, which could well be 6 months off from the point of writing - so that she's had plenty of time to consider it before getting married)

Would it be recommended to include this email as part of the email samples? I've written it only with the best of intentions, but it could come across as a bit impersonal, which is definitely not what our relationship is about. I'd probably prefer not to include it, unless it could be seen as a very positive thing to put forward. I'm not sure how they'd view it. But I'd probably suggest to my fiance to give some written feedback about her feelings on the proposal, rather than just the discussion we had over skype - if we are to factor this anywhere into the fiance application.

Many thanks!


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## Leanna (Oct 22, 2012)

pretzelz said:


> Hi all, a number of clear-cut questions regarding the fiance visa vaf4a application process so I'll post them as separate threads to make them easier for others to find when search the internet.
> 
> My situation: I've had a Russian girlfriend for 2.5 years. I've visited for 3 months, she's visited me in the UK for 6 months.
> 
> I have not yet formally proposed, we have not bought rings or discussed any marriage ceremony yet. Though this is all clearly intended, we want to do this when we are actually together in person, in the UK, rather than over skype/email!


Fiance(e) visa generally means, well, exactly that. UKBA are going to expect that the proposal is already done and plans are being drawn up. The fiance(e) visa is, after all, only for 6 months, which isn't a lot of time to plan a wedding, even a small one. 

Not everyone wears rings, so not having purchased rings may not matter, but the fact that you haven't discussed any details relating to the actual ceremony or proposed may cause problems. 



> What we have done, is discussed at length about our relationship together, and how our future life and plans could pan out past the point of actual marriage. The coming together part being much more meaningful than the festivities that might represent it.
> 
> How should I play this when it comes to us completing the fiance application? Can I state that the money is saved for rings, dress, registration and a simple ceremony, show evidence of this, but state that we would prefer to organize this when we are actually together as we believe the event is too personal to be arranging over skype? I certainly also don't really want to make any formal marriage proposal over the Internet, though as I say, we absolutely talk in terms of this of course.


Generally UKBA does like to see concrete plans or at least tentative bookings, and on occasion has mentioned a lack of doing so in refusal letters. 

Things like hall bookings, registrar appointments, etc, should really at least be tentatively booked before applying for a fiance(e) visa. 

Even if you would rather wait to do a more personal or elaborate proposal until she arrives in the UK, you must for all intents of the application, have already proposed marriage to her and be fiance/fiancee BEFORE the application takes place. It isn't a "girlfriend" visa. 



> And how simple or elaborate is the UKBA looking to see for wedding ceremonies? I think myself and my fiance would prefer to keep everything rather low key, as like I say, the most important thing for us is that we are finally able to come together and start a life.


The wedding itself doesn't need to be elaborate at all. My husband and I married in Cardiff City Hall with less than 15 people (his family, my family, a few friends), and had a low key after-party in a local pub where everyone bought their own dinners and we all had cake. Nothing fancy. 

However, for our application, we did show evidence of having already arranged a registrar meeting, showed the receipt for my engagement ring, and a list of tentative pubs/locations for the reception. You do need to show some level of planning. 



> Many thanks!


And any further questions you have please combine them into one thread rather than spamming the front page with multiple threads. It will be easier to get all your questions answered that way.


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## pretzelz (May 11, 2013)

Thanks for the reply  Ok.


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## Leanna (Oct 22, 2012)

pretzelz said:


> Hi all, a number of clear-cut questions regarding the fiance visa vaf4a application process so I'll post them as separate threads to make them easier for others to find when search the internet.
> 
> My situation: I've had a Russian girlfriend for 2.5 years. I've visited for 3 months, she's visited me in the UK for 6 months.
> 
> ...


You can keep your lodger, your house has plenty of bedrooms. Generally a property inspection report is only required if you are living with family ie. have no formal tenancy agreement, or you are living with plenty of people where issues of overcrowding could present. 

As you own the house, good idea to include proof of that, as well as a general description of the property ie. how many bedrooms/size/etc. If you have supplied your lodger with a tenancy agreement, you could include that as well.


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## Leanna (Oct 22, 2012)

pretzelz said:


> Hi all, a number of clear-cut questions regarding the fiance visa vaf4a application process so I'll post them as separate threads to make them easier for others to find when search the internet.
> 
> My situation: I've had a Russian girlfriend for 2.5 years. I've visited for 3 months, she's visited me in the UK for 6 months.
> 
> ...


I'll let someone else with more experience in pre-nup agreements chime in regarding how they could be perceived by UKBA, but honestly, I don't feel that it is necessary to include in your application, as it is personal and rather irrelevant to the application itself. 

And please, combine all further questions into one single post.


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## pretzelz (May 11, 2013)

Thanks for your detailed reply Leanna, that all makes excellent sense. I'll follow all the advice, especially if to some degree it can be tentative - with changes able to be made if necessary once she's here. 

Sorry I didn't mean it to seem like I was spamming the front page - but I do know that when I'm searching for the answer to a specific question on Google, the last thing I want to do is trawl through a drawn out discussion about somebody's situation to find exactly what I'm looking for. So that is why I've separated out the questions clearly into different areas. Once its buried under a pile of tomorrow's posts from everyone, it'll be completely out of sight anyway until its exactly needed by someone who searches it.


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## pretzelz (May 11, 2013)

Thanks Leanna, brilliant clarification for us all again. Much appreciated.


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## Leanna (Oct 22, 2012)

pretzelz said:


> Thanks for your detailed reply Leanna, that all makes excellent sense. I'll follow all the advice, especially if to some degree it can be tentative - with changes able to be made if necessary once she's here.
> 
> Sorry I didn't mean it to seem like I was spamming the front page - but I do know that when I'm searching for the answer to a specific question on Google, the last thing I want to do is trawl through a drawn out discussion about somebody's situation to find exactly what I'm looking for. So that is why I've separated out the questions clearly into different areas. Once its buried under a pile of tomorrow's posts from everyone, it'll be completely out of sight anyway until its exactly needed by someone who searches it.


No worries! It just gets complicated for people to answer questions in lots of different threads - you'd be more likely to get more answers if it was all smashed into one thread.  

And yes, tentative bookings are good. Nothing has to be set in stone, but again, showing that you've made plans and are going to follow through on them are good.


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## pretzelz (May 11, 2013)

Thanks Leanna. You've been an A* answer to all my questions! And in the blink of an eye!


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## pretzelz (May 11, 2013)

*VAF4A appendix 2, Q2.8: Do you intend to work in the UK? Trick question?!*

In Appendix 2 for vaf4a (fiance context), Q2.8 from Part 2 asks:

*'Do you intend to work in the UK' []yes []no If 'yes', provide full details.
*

The guidance for this questions states:

If ‘Yes’ please tell us	what	you intend to do and give details of any employment you have already arranged.


How is this question to be understood - given that:


_'You cannot take up employment until after the marriage or civil partnership. Once the marriage or civil partnership has taken place, you will need to make a further application to the Home Office to request a variation of your visa status from fiancé(e)/proposed civil partner to that of a spouse or a civil partner.' - source: foreignersinuk.co.uk_

So basically, it is illegal to work whilst your visa is only suitable as fiance. So why ask the question? I'm sure it's not supposed to be a trick question.


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## Leanna (Oct 22, 2012)

I answered YES and stated that I intended to seek employment once I had my FLR and was going to seek employment in my field (Criminal Justice" or retail if I couldn't find other work, but that I had nothing already arranged. 

It does sound like a trick question, but I think UKBA just want to know if you're going to work or if there may be a reason you cannot work, that's all!


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

I do reserve the right to edit, combine or delete your threads if your action is deemed unfair to other forum users.


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## pretzelz (May 11, 2013)

Great, that's that question wrapped up then. 

I had presumed she would state 'yes' and give details of her plans for employment once she was legally allowed to do so. UKBA should clarify what they mean for this in their guidance however - as it sounds like you're free to work on fiance visa, which is obviously not the case.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

It's against forum rules so I've combined all your threads into one. People can still do a search on the forum to get the question they want.


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## pretzelz (May 11, 2013)

A further question has come to mind - are all documents that are sent to the UKBA (in this case, Novosibirsk, Russia) returned? Ie, if I as UK spouse send my fiance my original birth certificate and passport, I hope this will be returned to her along with all her documents too? Then she can bring it all back to me when she (with luck) enters the UK? 

Many thanks.


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## Leanna (Oct 22, 2012)

pretzelz said:


> A further question has come to mind - are all documents that are sent to the UKBA (in this case, Novosibirsk, Russia) returned? Ie, if I as UK spouse send my fiance my original birth certificate and passport, I hope this will be returned to her along with all her documents too? Then she can bring it all back to me when she (with luck) enters the UK?
> 
> Many thanks.


As the UK citizen a photocopy of your passport is fine. If you do chose to send the originals, ensure you also include photocopies which ensures that you will get your originals back.


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## pretzelz (May 11, 2013)

Thanks Leanna - you're a star! (ps. Check for a PM from me...)

And as for this question: is this your first passport? I don't understand what is meant by first? If you've had a string of passports that have all naturally been renewed, is your only and current passport your 'first'? And if you've lost one and got a replacement, is this replacement your 'first' if it's your only and current passport? What might a 'second' passport be? 

In my case, I've had many renewed UK passports, and one (current) replacement passport for a lost one. For my Russian fiance, she's got a renewed passport. I'm hoping she kept her old one, since that's what she visited the UK with!

Thanks as always!


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## Leanna (Oct 22, 2012)

pretzelz said:


> Thanks Leanna - you're a star! (ps. Check for a PM from me...)
> 
> And as for this question: is this your first passport? I don't understand what is meant by first? If you've had a string of passports that have all naturally been renewed, is your only and current passport your 'first'? And if you've lost one and got a replacement, is this replacement your 'first' if it's your only and current passport? What might a 'second' passport be?
> 
> ...


Every passport, including renewals count as their own independent passport. So, essentially, as you've had many passports ie. renewals, list them, the dates they were valid to/from, their passport numbers and where they are now (destroyed/your possession/lost/etc). 

If you cannot remember the exact passport numbers and/or dates, estimate. 

Yes, hopefully your Russian fiancee still has her previous passport or at least the details, as including a photocopy of the entry/exit stamps is good to include in your application as proof of her visits to you.


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## pretzelz (May 11, 2013)

Thank you for the clarification. 

And a question about the finance on vaf4a appendix 2: I have been in a permanent salaried job for 8 months now, which earns annually over the £18k requirement. Can I simply tick and complete part 3A, category A and ignore the other categories completely? I.e, I'm not self employed and the cash savings I do have are less than £16k. I'm still happy to show what cash savings I do have and give a 6 month bank statement showing my job paying into this each month. Although I did also have lodgers, but now have only 1, and that I believe isn't classed as self employed (was just rent-a-room scheme on HMRC declaration) and wouldn't have amassed more than £16k in income from assets I own. So basically, regardless of my existing lodger income, can I still just state only my salaried annual income as my only means to meet the requirement? Many thanks!! Edit: I also did some temp work, paid on a daily basis, before starting this permanent salaried position 8 months ago. Probably did this for a month or less, but I assume I shouldn't state this because it wasn't 'salaried'?


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## Leanna (Oct 22, 2012)

pretzelz said:


> Thank you for the clarification.
> 
> And a question about the finance on vaf4a appendix 2: I have been in a permanent salaried job for 8 months now, which earns annually over the £18k requirement. Can I simply tick and complete part 3A, category A and ignore the other categories completely? I.e, I'm not self employed and the cash savings I do have are less than £16k. I'm still happy to show what cash savings I do have and give a 6 month bank statement showing my job paying into this each month. Although I did also have lodgers, but now have only 1, and that I believe isn't classed as self employed (was just rent-a-room scheme on HMRC declaration) and wouldn't have amassed more than £16k in income from assets I own. So basically, regardless of my existing lodger income, can I still just state only my salaried annual income as my only means to meet the requirement? Many thanks!! Edit: I also did some temp work, paid on a daily basis, before starting this permanent salaried position 8 months ago. Probably did this for a month or less, but I assume I shouldn't state this because it wasn't 'salaried'?


Correct! Appendix 2 appears much more complicated than it needs to be, that's for sure. 

Because you have been with the same company for over 6 months AND are earning over the minimum requirement (£18,600 annually, or £1550 GROSS - that is important - monthly), you are correct - you will be using Category 3A - salaried employment. 

Cash savings are irrelevant unless you hold more than £16,000 and even then, as you're earning over the limit there's no need to include details. Same with your temp work and any rental income. Best to keep things simple for the ECO (Entry Clearance Officer) and not complicate the application with extra information. It will not help your application to do so. 

Now, very important, as you are meeting the financial requirement using salaried income, pay very close attention to the documents you need to include as UKBA are very, very picky about them. 

They include things such as:
-Original job contract detailing hours & wage (including things such as overtime or bonuses, if you are relying on those as well to meet the requirements)
-Original payslips that cover 6 months leading up to application (must be dated within 28 days of application). If your payslips are online printouts or otherwise not 'official' looking, you should get them signed & stamped by a senior member of your company ie. HR. 
-Original Bank Statement that cover the 6 months that the payslips cover. Again, they need to either be bank originals (ie. the paper ones mailed to you by the bank - most banks can order these within a few weeks) or, if they are online printouts, they need to be stamped & signed at the bank - some banks will NOT do this, so best to double check with your bank ahead of time. 

Some of those documents can take a while to collect, so start getting them together now.  

Good luck!


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## pretzelz (May 11, 2013)

Thank you Leanna for all your continued advice. (And check your PM again - as I'm very grateful for the time you've put in here)

I expect I'm nearing the end of my VAF4A questions, but here's a few more:

- with regards to 'keeping it simple' regarding finances, since I'll be the primary sponsor etc, is it worth her digging anything out at all regarding her own payslips and account balance etc, given that I'll be footing the bill for everything - making her employment background and finances somewhat irrelevant I would have thought? Or should I get her to include it all just for peace of mind...

- Any idea if the fiance visa to the UK also allows you to travel elsewhere in Europe once you're here? I'm thinking primarily of the honeymoon holiday - possibly a trip to Spain. Or is it the case that a separate Visa to Spain (or other EU country) would need to be arranged? And I wonder at what point her freedom of movement within the EU would become easier, with regards to short holiday trips.

- Ah, and proof that I am not married and that she is not married - required? Or only evidence to be given if you have been married before and are proving you're single again.

As always, many thanks!


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## Leanna (Oct 22, 2012)

pretzelz said:


> Thank you Leanna for all your continued advice. (And check your PM again - as I'm very grateful for the time you've put in here)
> 
> I expect I'm nearing the end of my VAF4A questions, but here's a few more:
> 
> - with regards to 'keeping it simple' regarding finances, since I'll be the primary sponsor etc, is it worth her digging anything out at all regarding her own payslips and account balance etc, given that I'll be footing the bill for everything - making her employment background and finances somewhat irrelevant I would have thought? Or should I get her to include it all just for peace of mind...


I know it does feel strange, but you really, really do not need to include anything about her finances/jobs at all as her situation is rather irrelevant. Again, I understand you about the peace of mind - I did include a copy of my savings account statement just to show I was bringing some savings over, but it was left untouched in our application and was irrelevant. 



> - Any idea if the fiance visa to the UK also allows you to travel elsewhere in Europe once you're here? I'm thinking primarily of the honeymoon holiday - possibly a trip to Spain. Or is it the case that a separate Visa to Spain (or other EU country) would need to be arranged? And I wonder at what point her freedom of movement within the EU would become easier, with regards to short holiday trips.


Here's the tricky thing about the fiance(e) visa. Technically its a multi-entry visa, but only while you are meeting the requirements of the visa, so, a fiance(e). Once you're married it becomes more difficult. Some people have been able to leave and re-enter the UK once they are married on the fiance(e) visa, others have been refused at the border, which you definitely don't want. As such, generally I would recommend NOT travelling on the fiance(e) visa and better to wait until you've upgraded to her Further Leave to Remain (FLR(M)) after you're married. If you can swing it and do your FLR appointment as a same-day premium appointment, you can usually get an answer within a day and her biometric residence permit (BRP) in less than 10. 

PEO Appointments do cost more than sending your application away by post, but I think the general consensus is that they are very, very much worth the extra cost to get an answer the same day. Booking appointments is getting easier, so you shouldn't have too much trouble sorting one out shortly after your wedding, and then leaving for your honeymoon after that. 

In terms of free travel throughout the EU, I'll have to let someone else chime in on that. I do not believe that a fiance(e) visa would grant her the same travel freedom that you, a UK citizen has, and I'm not sure if the BRP gives the same travel. She may have to sort out an additional visa for Europe. Though, again, I'll let someone else chime in regarding that.  



> As always, many thanks!


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## nyclon (Apr 3, 2011)

pretzelz said:


> Thank you Leanna for all your continued advice. (And check your PM again - as I'm very grateful for the time you've put in here)
> 
> I expect I'm nearing the end of my VAF4A questions, but here's a few more:
> 
> - with regards to 'keeping it simple' regarding finances, since I'll be the primary sponsor etc, is it worth her digging anything out at all regarding her own payslips and account balance etc, given that I'll be footing the bill for everything - making her employment background and finances somewhat irrelevant I would have thought? Or should I get her to include it all just for peace of mind...


Her past employment and bank statements are irrelevant.



> - Any idea if the fiance visa to the UK also allows you to travel elsewhere in Europe once you're here? I'm thinking primarily of the honeymoon holiday - possibly a trip to Spain. Or is it the case that a separate Visa to Spain (or other EU country) would need to be arranged? And I wonder at what point her freedom of movement within the EU would become easier, with regards to short holiday trips.


The fiance visa is a multi-entry visa as long as she is a fiance and up until you get married. After you are married she will need to apply for a spouse visa as she will no longer be a fiance and an IO at the border could refuse her entry. So, if you wish to go on a honeymoon after you are married she will need to obtain her spouse visa 1st in order to be allowed to re-enter the UK. Whatever visa she requires as a Russian citizen to travel to other countries will be necessary until she attains UK citizenship.



> - Ah, and proof that I am not married and that she is not married - required? Or only evidence to be given if you have been married before and are proving you're single again.


Correct.


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## pretzelz (May 11, 2013)

Brilliant, thank you both Leanna and nyclon for your clarification  Much appreciated!


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Just to summarise what your fiancée must do:
1. Get fiancée visa, enter UK and get married.
2. Apply for leave to remain as partner (spouse). With PEO appointment, it should be sorted in a day and you just wait for biometric residence permit (up to a week).
3. If you wish to travel in Europe, get a Schengen visa (for Schengen countries which include most Western and Central European countries). Being married to a British citizen may make this easier and faster. 
4. After being in UK for 5 years, apply for settlement, and then for naturalisation. Once you get British passport, you'll have complete freedom to travel (provided UK stays in EU).


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## pretzelz (May 11, 2013)

Thank you both for all the clarifcation, very helpful indeed


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## pretzelz (May 11, 2013)

Greetings all. What is a sensible amount of emails / photos to include to show evidence of a genuine relationship? I was thinking about 15 meaningful photos and 15 emails from across the 2.5 year period we've been together. And maybe also a few pages of other msc thumbnails showing say another 50 photos? And perhaps also I could print some screenshots from the email inbox or sent mail which show an overview of the daily emails too... although that's probably A LOT of pages between now and 2.5 years ago -- what did you submit in quantity for this? Many thanks!


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## chicgeek (Jan 4, 2013)

pretzelz said:


> Greetings all. What is a sensible amount of emails / photos to include to show evidence of a genuine relationship? I was thinking about 15 meaningful photos and 15 emails from across the 2.5 year period we've been together. And maybe also a few pages of other msc thumbnails showing say another 50 photos? And perhaps also I could print some screenshots from the email inbox or sent mail which show an overview of the daily emails too... although that's probably A LOT of pages between now and 2.5 years ago -- what did you submit in quantity for this? Many thanks!


Is this for a spouse or unmarried partner visa? The latter may require slightly more detail due to needing to prove cohabitation.

I applied for unmarried partner and included the following:

Proof of living together (concurrent proof of address for all locations, cosigned leases)
Other documents (shared Fido Mobile account, selected call/text logs, ~5 pages of chat logs, shared flight confirmations for trips together)
Letters from family and friends (~8)
Photos (~15, providing dates, locations, identifying other people in the photos)
I think 50+ pics is overkill, but I really encourage you to get a few letters from friends or family. Happy to send you a copy of more specific details by message, if you want. (A copy of our "index".)


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## Leanna (Oct 22, 2012)

pretzelz said:


> Greetings all. What is a sensible amount of emails / photos to include to show evidence of a genuine relationship? I was thinking about 15 meaningful photos and 15 emails from across the 2.5 year period we've been together. And maybe also a few pages of other msc thumbnails showing say another 50 photos? And perhaps also I could print some screenshots from the email inbox or sent mail which show an overview of the daily emails too... although that's probably A LOT of pages between now and 2.5 years ago -- what did you submit in quantity for this? Many thanks!


In most cases, less is more. Show a selection of e-mails and text messages that SPAN the years of contact (this is most important) as well as 10-15 photos (50 is overkill and they won't be looked at). Again, photos showing you meeting friends & family are helpful, or showing vacations you've taken together (any prominent sights?). Screenshots from e-mail inbox are good - that's what we did to show the consistency of our messages. Generally letters of support from friends & family aren't required and are unnecessary - UKBA don't consider them "hard" evidence and they are often ignored. Also good to include would be any receipts or tickets from visiting each other - hotel reservations, flight details, etc.


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## pretzelz (May 11, 2013)

Thanks chicgeek, I think your outline will is good enough guidance. This will be for my fiance to come over and join me in the UK. And yep, will obtain a letter from my mum, dad, sister and mutual friends here in the UK to support the application. As well as her mum, dad and friends.


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## nyclon (Apr 3, 2011)

pretzelz said:


> Thanks chicgeek, I think your outline will is good enough guidance. This will be for my fiance to come over and join me in the UK. And yep, will obtain a letter from my mum, dad, sister and mutual friends here in the UK to support the application. As well as her mum, dad and friends.


As Leanna said, personal declarations from friends and family are completely subjective and will not be considered and it's best not to include unnecessary clutter in your application.


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## chicgeek (Jan 4, 2013)

nyclon said:


> As Leanna said, personal declarations from friends and family are completely subjective and will not be considered and it's best not to include unnecessary clutter in your application.


I guess I should clarify too... some of my letters were to support our initial cohabitation because I was not on the lease. We had other supporting evidence, too, but we felt it would be helpful to have additional confirmation from our housemate (name on the lease) that I (not on the lease) was there also.

But yes... go for less clutter, so long as you cover the requirements. Good luck!


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## pretzelz (May 11, 2013)

*Bank and employer evidence*

Good weekend to all!

I have today obtained a 6 month statement print out from my bank, for which they stamped every page. I also got a mini statement from the ATM which they stamped, as well as a mini statement of what I'm currently paying for mortage. (which is also indicated every month on the 6 month statement). Must I also write to head office and get them to send me back confirmation of how many year's I've had the account open? (since 2006).


Also, with regards to my monthly salary, as illustrated with 6 months of payslips matching 6 months of entry's in my 6 month statement from the bank - can I just include a signed on-copy of my work contract (from 8 months ago when I started) rather than a formal letter from my employer to state my salary and that its a permanent position? As it does say this in the contract. 

Will that be enough to satisfy for bank and employer evidence? (I have two other bank accounts but I can't see that they're relevant. I'll include a print out for the balance in them however, which is in the green)

Many thanks  Wishing you all a good weekend!


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## pretzelz (May 11, 2013)

Ah and also, we've picked out an engagement ring (online) that I've bought here in the UK. Is it necessary to send this abroad to her, or can I just show proof that I've bought it, and wait to give it to her when I see her? I'm somewhat worried about it getting lost in the mail to Russia. -Thanks.


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## pretzelz (May 11, 2013)

1.16 Have you been living in a relationship akin to marriage?

1.19 Have you lived with your sponsor in a relationship akin to marriage or a civil partnership at any time? (If no, give reasons why you have never lived together)


...What should I answer here, because she visited my first in England for 6 months, then later I visited her in Russia for 3 months. Over our 2.5 year relationship period. Should I say No for both questions, and in 1.19 state that we have 'stayed' together for 3 and 6 months - to which they can see our photos, and a gap in email correspondence for those periods. 


Many thanks!


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## nyclon (Apr 3, 2011)

pretzelz said:


> 1.16 Have you been living in a relationship akin to marriage?
> 
> 1.19 Have you lived with your sponsor in a relationship akin to marriage or a civil partnership at any time? (If no, give reasons why you have never lived together)
> 
> ...


It's a one size fits all application which covers many different scenarios. If the answer in no, then put no.


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## pretzelz (May 11, 2013)

The guidance notes are simply useless for these visa forms.




3.22 If your sponsor has not been employed by the same employer for 6 months prior to the application does their total income (before tax) from salaried employment received in the 12 months prior to your application meet or exceed the financial requirement you must meet? >>
Yes No 



Where is the not applicable box? I have been employed by the same employer for more than 6 months. Can I write not applicable beneath the YES / NO? (thanks)


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## Leanna (Oct 22, 2012)

pretzelz said:


> The guidance notes are simply useless for these visa forms.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'm pretty sure if you ticked YES under the previous box (stating that you had been with the same employer for at least 6 months) it instructs you to skip this question?


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## pretzelz (May 11, 2013)

Sorry, Leanna above had previously answered the same questions. (about bank details / payslips / employer confirmation) Thanks for that!


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## pretzelz (May 11, 2013)

3.12 says for continuous salary meeting the requirements for 6 months or more, then go to 3.21

And 3.21 is effectively: Do you meet the requirements? [x] yes []no

Leading you in to 3.22 which then doesn't apply. According to the guidance notes you must give a yes or no answer for this - am I missing something else?


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## Leanna (Oct 22, 2012)

pretzelz said:


> 3.12 says for continuous salary meeting the requirements for 6 months or more, then go to 3.21
> 
> And 3.21 is effectively: Do you meet the requirements? [x] yes []no
> 
> Leading you in to 3.22 which then doesn't apply. According to the guidance notes you must give a yes or no answer for this - am I missing something else?


Well you do meet the requirements and there is no n/a option, so tick yes. Now that I'm reading over the application, I think I just ticked "YES" and carried on.


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## pretzelz (May 11, 2013)

Do you think they'd mind if I popped the following under [x] yes

(David has been employed longer than 
6 months by the same employer)

As I don't feel quite right saying yes to a statement which doesn't qualify. But I'll take your word for it if you think I'm safe. Many thanks.


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## pretzelz (May 11, 2013)

Actually, would it be better to state this in 5.1 for any other information wished to be considered in the application? Altogether for this section, I'm planning to write:


I would like to clarify the answer given for 3.22: David has been employed longer than 
6 months with the same employer.

Please consider also any supporting documentation that may be useful for you, as included with our 
application. A contents page at the beginning of the file gives an outline of the supporting documentation we have included.


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## pretzelz (May 11, 2013)

Hi all,

Can I double check - I've had lodgers for the year, (only 1 remaining in the house now) and my salaried wage for >6 months has exceeded the requirement. I've stated that there is still one lodger left in the house, and highlighted on the 6 month bank statements his monthly payment, including for other tenants I've had over the 6 month period. Also included is his tenancy agreement (till March 2014.) Since I'm only using my salaried wage to meet the financial requirement, can I leave out Tax self assessment stuff I filed with the government for the last tax year detailing lodgers income? 

Also I've just received a P60 for the last tax year from my employer. Must I include this? I've already got 6 month of payslips, employment contract and a signed letter from my employer to confirming my yearly salary, permanent status and date started the job. 

Many thanks - have a sunny weekend!


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## pretzelz (May 11, 2013)

And regarding owning a property, do I have to provide a backlog of documentation, or will a recent document for the following do:

-photos of house
- council tax statement
- mortgage statement
- service charges
- something else such as land registry document, if I can get my hands on something that my solicitor may have otherwise kept hold of.


Many thanks!


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Leave out anything to do with lodgers, including self assessment tax return.
P60 is required so should be enclosed.
Your property documents seem fine.


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## pretzelz (May 11, 2013)

Thanks Joppa!


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## pretzelz (May 11, 2013)

Greetings all. I sent all my British documentation to Russia almost a month ago, and it still hasn't arrived with my fiance. I'm maintaining hope that she will still receive it all successfully, however once she gets it, my 6 months of original bank details and original payslips will no longer be the newest. Should I email a copy of my latest bank account balance and scanned payslip to be printed and included with a note explanation? Many thanks. (was sent 1st class Royal Mail signed for at £15)


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## Leanna (Oct 22, 2012)

pretzelz said:


> Greetings all. I sent all my British documentation to Russia almost a month ago, and it still hasn't arrived with my fiance. I'm maintaining hope that she will still receive it all successfully, however once she gets it, my 6 months of original bank details and original payslips will no longer be the newest. Should I email a copy of my latest bank account balance and scanned payslip to be printed and included with a note explanation? Many thanks. (was sent 1st class Royal Mail signed for at £15)


Bank statements and payslips will have to be genuine - scanned and e-mailed copies may not be accepted, even with an explanation. Try FedEx of UPS rather than RoyalMail. Have you contacted RoyalMail with your tracking number?


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## pretzelz (May 11, 2013)

The details I get from the Royal Mail tracking feedback is unhelpful: 

our item, posted on 04/06/13 with reference xxxxxxxxx has been passed to the overseas postal service for delivery in RUSSIAN FEDERATION.

I used RoyalMail because the said in the branch it would take between 4 and 7 days to reach her. However yes I'll look up how and where to send via one of the others if it could be faster...


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## Leanna (Oct 22, 2012)

pretzelz said:


> The details I get from the Royal Mail tracking feedback is unhelpful:
> 
> our item, posted on 04/06/13 with reference xxxxxxxxx has been passed to the overseas postal service for delivery in RUSSIAN FEDERATION.
> 
> I used RoyalMail because the said in the branch it would take between 4 and 7 days to reach her. However yes I'll look up how and where to send via one of the others if it could be faster...


I would contact RoyalMail and ask for additional information - might be time to file a claim for your documents. I know several members here have had awful experiences with International Royal Mail, so I would definitely recommend using another service, such as UPS or FedEx. Perhaps start getting together replacement documentation now in case your original package goes missing.


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## skinnie58 (Apr 3, 2013)

The problem with royal mail is if you send something international signed for you can only track it up until it leaves the UK after that its down to the country it was sent to. You will not get much joy from this end.


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## pretzelz (May 11, 2013)

Hi all,

With regards to the fact that our documentation is now a month old already - should I also be sending an update summary of new correspondence between us? (ie, a list of emails from an inbox screenshot?) I had previously sent a pretty thorough summary, with selected emails, from across our 2.5 year relationship... or just send the updated bank details and new payslip?

Many thanks.


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## pretzelz (May 11, 2013)

arrrgh! Just venting... but I'd forgotten to log into the online visa application website and its now exceed the pithy 7 days 'saved details' meaning I gotta do that online form all over again. And to think I had kept revisiting it every week for about 8 weeks now! Who completes and processes that type of application in 7 days?! I wish it could have been saved for longer on their system ((


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## pretzelz (May 11, 2013)

Me again... I've just read on the internet that I should have signed the photocopy of my UK passport, and included every page within it. However, I have not signed it (and my signature is already part of the passport ID page) and I also only included a copy of my Russian Visa page, which I didn't sign. Panic? Or sign the word document scan using my touchscreen laptop and email it to my girlfriend in Russia who can print it and add it into our (now arrived) supporting documentation?

Also, I've read conflicting SU07/12 form information. Should I complete this anyway and email it to my girlfriend to print out? (Again, I can only sign this using my touchscreen)

Many thanks!!


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## pretzelz (May 11, 2013)

Hello, I have saved the completed VAF4A form having paid for it online. However my fiance has spotted that I missed one letter off the end of her mother's family name (fiance takes her father's family name). Before my fiance prints the form off, I can very easily change the mistake simply by opening the form with a text editor (eg notepad), changing the spelling, click SAVE and open it back again. Everything is identical just with the typo changed. All images and formatting are identical. Will this cause problems? I notice there are several barcode images on the page, one with her visa application number written on it, the other just below the data signed area. I'm wondering if either of these barcodes would have also encapsulated all the text in the form, and a problem might arise if somewhere in the system this update of information may cause a problem if the application form is to be scanned at their end or compared with perhaps the online submission of data. Though I think because it has been asked to be printed and brought in person, they havent at this point kept any record of it for themselves. ...was also wondering about bringing the intended travel date sooner by 2 weeks as well, by editing that in the editor. Many thanks.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Or just make a correction in the printed out form. It's not a big deal.


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## pretzelz (May 11, 2013)

wasn't sure how sacred the printout was. Perhaps then we'll just put a postit note on there pointing out the spelling error, and an alternative intended travel date for their consideration. Thanks.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Yes, that's what UKBA advise you to do.


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## signifi (Jul 30, 2013)

In relation to posting documents to Russia (I'm hoping this will help future forum users), and I did quite a bit of research into this.
The best method to post important documents to Russia from the UK is via DHL Express. They have a system which is FULLY trackable from the UK to Russia and it only takes 2 days! However it is expensive! £65. But for me it was peace of mind and money well spent to know docs would arrive promptly and safely.
My fiance could not believe how fast it was.
I had sent her a birthday present earlier in the year via International Signed For (Royal Mail) and they had said 7-10 days at the Post Office. Well it was actually almost four weeks later when it finally arrived! I did not use Royal Mail again. Having said this, I believe the hold up was due to the very slow postal customs system Russia has.
Nevertheless DHL were brilliant with the document delivery.


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