# Help



## DIANA MC (Jun 28, 2010)

HI 
I AM LOOKING TO MOVE TO SPAIN NEXT YEAR I WOULD LIKE TO BUY A SMALL BAR FOR MY HUSBAND MYSELF AND OUR 30 YEAR OLD DAUGHTER 

WE INTEND TO SELL OUR HOUSE HERE IN THE UK TO FUND THIS I HAVE LOTS OF QUISTIONS I WOULD LIKE TO ASK 

IS THERE ANY ONE OUT THER WHO LIVES AND WORKS IN BENIDORM WHO CAN HELP 

DIANA


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## dunmovin (Dec 19, 2008)

DIANA MC said:


> HI
> I AM LOOKING TO MOVE TO SPAIN NEXT YEAR I WOULD LIKE TO BUY A SMALL BAR FOR MY HUSBAND MYSELF AND OUR 30 YEAR OLD DAUGHTER
> 
> WE INTEND TO SELL OUR HOUSE HERE IN THE UK TO FUND THIS I HAVE LOTS OF QUISTIONS I WOULD LIKE TO ASK
> ...




everyone here will tell you that the best thing you can do, is come over on a research trip first, before you commit to anything. Also Spain is in a recession at the moment, and the tourist trade is down quite a bit, so the market will be quite tough.

Do you have any experience in the bar trade?


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## neilmac (Sep 10, 2008)

DIANA MC said:


> HI
> I AM LOOKING TO MOVE TO SPAIN NEXT YEAR I WOULD LIKE TO BUY A SMALL BAR FOR MY HUSBAND MYSELF AND OUR 30 YEAR OLD DAUGHTER
> 
> WE INTEND TO SELL OUR HOUSE HERE IN THE UK TO FUND THIS I HAVE LOTS OF QUISTIONS I WOULD LIKE TO ASK
> ...



I agree you will need to do lots of research. In Benidorm the competition is enormous, you are 'largely' restricting yourself to tourist trade and you may need to think what you can 'add' or 'difference' you can offer. If you are not restricted to Benidorm you could maybe consider a area where you will stand out from the crowd more.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

I think most advise is going to be along the lines - DONT! Its very risky and not much fun! But I guess thats not what you want to hear. Just be careful blowing all your money on it, cos if it doesnt work, you could end up with barely enough for your fare home again

Jo xxx


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## DIANA MC (Jun 28, 2010)

dunmovin said:


> everyone here will tell you that the best thing you can do, is come over on a research trip first, before you commit to anything. Also spain is in a recession at the moment, and the tourist trade is down quite a bit, so the market will be quite tough.
> 
> Do you have any experience in the bar trade?


yes my daughter has ran lots of bars here in the uk and both myself and my husband work with the public 

i have been to benidorm on four occasions but only on holiday is there any company that you know who do these research trips 
thank you for your replay
diana


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

DIANA MC said:


> yes my daughter has ran lots of bars here in the uk and both myself and my husband work with the public
> 
> i have been to benidorm on four occasions but only on holiday is there any company that you know who do these research trips
> thank you for your replay
> diana


Mostly its business sales agents who will be the ones you should go to, I cant recommend any I'm afraid. Google bar sales in Benidorm and see what you come up with, but be careful (heck, I sound so negative - sorry )

Jo xxx


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## country boy (Mar 10, 2010)

*Don't do it*. Unless you are very experienced and speak excellent Spanish, it simply will not work.


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## DIANA MC (Jun 28, 2010)

neilmac said:


> i agree you will need to do lots of research. In benidorm the competition is enormous, you are 'largely' restricting yourself to tourist trade and you may need to think what you can 'add' or 'difference' you can offer. If you are not restricted to benidorm you could maybe consider a area where you will stand out from the crowd more.


no the reason we picked benidorm is we thought that maybe we would get trade for longer months but we are not blinkerd on there we just have a dream of running a family bar in spain we always wanted to go to majorca (palma nova ) but we have been told that it is only six months trading 
diana


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## DIANA MC (Jun 28, 2010)

jojo said:


> mostly its business sales agents who will be the ones you should go to, i cant recommend any i'm afraid. Google bar sales in benidorm and see what you come up with, but be careful (heck, i sound so negative - sorry )
> 
> jo xxx


not at all i am gratefull for your advise 

all we know is its something we have to do but dont just want to jump into the fire so would be gratefull any help we can get


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Theres a lovely chap who comes on here very occasionally who was looking into doing something similar a while ago - he didnt for various reasons, but may give you some tips if you want to private message him??? He'll be happy to help. Heres the link to his profile

Expat Forum For Expats, For Moving Overseas And For Jobs Abroad - View Profile: jkchawner

Jo xxx


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

DIANA MC said:


> not at all i am gratefull for your advise
> 
> all we know is its something we have to do but dont just want to jump into the fire so would be gratefull any help we can get


Well, there's always this advice from a thread you posted on a few days ago...
http://www.expatforum.com/expats/spain-expat-forum-expats-living-spain/51806-area-move-prices.html


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## sensationalfrog (Mar 31, 2010)

SteveHall said:


> I've done it. I can think of absolutely no surer way of losing everything than running a bar in Benidorm. Can't be more blunt. Sorry to rain on your parade but Benidorm needs another bar, like Fabio Capello needs criticism. Every year 1000s of people start out with a family bar in town and every year the overwhelming majority close. Punto, final.


have to agree,lived on the costa del sol for 12 years,had a bar for 7,was quite good,but wife and I had xp,seen hundreds fail,my best advice,do not listen to anything an estate agent tells you,but as steve says you will most likely fail and lose money
sorry to put a downer on your 'dream' but most that have lived here a few years will tell you the same and i think benidorm is worse


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Steve Hall knows whereof he speaks. But in spite of all the advice, people will do what they want to do.
The best way to lose your money in Spain would be to spend it on a really great family holiday.
At least you would have enjoyed yourselves and had some great memories to look back on.
But running a bar in Benidorm??? At a time of deep recession and a sharp decline in tourist numbers? And with literally thousands of bars on the market? There's a good reason for that - they don't make money.
And whatever you do, don't sell your UK house until and if you are very firmly established in Spain and have some cash behind you.
There was an excellent programme on tv last summer, title: 'Spain, Paradise lost'. It showed a couple who had bought a bar in Benidorm...no previous business experience of any kind, supermarket shelf stacker and truck driver, lasted six months.
Not everyone fails, of course, but the sad truth is that the people who are happily settled in Spain now are either a) employed in secure jobs b) have partners who work in the UK or own UK-based businesses or c) don't need to work.
Speaking Spanish is essential. Most of the jobs that pay a reasonable salary require professional qualifications and managerial experience. Otherwise wage levels are lower than in the UK and there is no Social Security safety net.
Dreams can very quickly become nightmares, I'm afraid.


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## jkchawner (Dec 21, 2008)

jojo said:


> Theres a lovely chap who comes on here very occasionally who was looking into doing something similar a while ago - he didnt for various reasons, but may give you some tips if you want to private message him??? He'll be happy to help. Heres the link to his profile
> 
> Expat Forum For Expats, For Moving Overseas And For Jobs Abroad - View Profile: jkchawner
> 
> Jo xxx


for sure its a lovely thought working in the sun whilst earning money and yes it can work. and yes it can go tits up more often than not.
i have looked in to it more than once there are other business's that are worth a punt in the benidorm area here's a few for sale now at reasonable price's so not massive gambles really.

Traditional English Sweet Shop In Benidorm For Sale on eBay (end time 21-Jul-10 12:53:35 BST)

FREEHOLD PROPERTY SPAIN CAFE BAR SUPERMARKET BUSINESS on eBay (end time 10-Jul-10 11:17:37 BST)

Turkey-Akbuk 2 bed.penthouse and business for sale on eBay (end time 12-Jul-10 01:17:55 BST)

myself i think the 2nd and 3rd selection are good buys on the face of it but you would have to look a lot deaper in to it of course, the 3rd one is in turkey but what value for money that is just thought i would add it anyway.
hope this helps.
if i can help in any way let me no.
i have been to benidorm more times than most and no a lot of bar owners there.
be warned times are hard though.
regards shaun


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## rjnpenang (Feb 20, 2008)

Hi, I´ve run a cafe in Spain on and off for 27 years, I would say over 90% of people who buy a bar in Spain will lose their money or their marriage or both within 12 months, and to sell a house in the UK to do it, never!!!. Regards Rob


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

I often wonder if people who are keen to own/run their own business have actually thought through the whole issue of being self-employed.
It seems to me that what many of them will find in reality is that they will be one-man/woman bands, working all hours and often unable to afford to employ staff other than family members.
Have they factored in the need to pay their own social security, medical insurance, pension scheme etc.? Are they aware that if they are inexperienced in business/financial management they will need to pay through the nose for the services of an accountant to put their accounts and tax affairs in order? Have they thought that they will pay directly for every day off and holiday they have? 
All that applies to would-be entrepreneurs anywhere in the world but there are additional issues in Spain and not only the language.
Frankly, being on my feet for ten to twelve hours a day six or even seven days a week in temperatures of 30C+ no way constitutes a 'dream'. More a horrendous nightmare.
My partner owned and managed two businesses employing a couple of dozen people and had to organise and pay for the things I described above. I worked for another employer and enjoyed paid holidays, one hundred days per annum on full pay when sick, generous final salary pension scheme etc. 
Many people see being self-employed and being able to describe themselves on their passports as 'Company Director' as a huge step up in the world.
That's the case if you're CEO of M&S, Tesco, RBS et al but no way is it so if you are merely me my dad and our lorry or me, OH and our cafe.
Then, even if you manage to do well in these straitened times, it will still involve so much hard work, worry and loss of freedom that you may well think it wasn't worth it.
My partner got to that point several years ago and got out while there was still cash to live a reasonable lifestyle but much more importantly with health and sanity intact.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

On a more positive note, I think you need to come over and have a jolly good look. Get chatting to existing bar owners, their customers and get a real feel for what its like!! I'm sure that out of all of them there will be some success stories and they'll give you an insight as to what life running a bar is really like!

Jo xxx


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

jojo said:


> On a more positive note, I think you need to come over and have a jolly good look. Get chatting to existing bar owners, their customers and get a real feel for what its like!! I'm sure that out of all of them there will be some success stories and they'll give you an insight as to what life running a bar is really like!
> 
> Jo xxx



Yes, that is the best way to invest money in Spain at this time. Have a terrific holiday and enjoy yourselves. 
As well as getting a true picture of how things are on the ground here.


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## DIANA MC (Jun 28, 2010)

jkchawner said:


> for sure its a lovely thought working in the sun whilst earning money and yes it can work. And yes it can go tits up more often than not.
> I have looked in to it more than once there are other business's that are worth a punt in the benidorm area here's a few for sale now at reasonable price's so not massive gambles really.
> 
> traditional english sweet shop in benidorm for sale on ebay (end time 21-jul-10 12:53:35 bst)
> ...


hi just like to say thanks to everyone who has sent a reply 
just a few answers to the questions 

both my husband and i are self employed here in the uk he has been self employed as a cab driver for 20 years and i have my own beauty business and have had for 3 years 
my daughter runs a bar here living in spain is something we have always wanted to do we are not set on benidorm in fact we always wanted to go to majorca we just thought that benidorm would have more tourists we would have to sell our house here to fund our move but we were not thinking of buying properth in spain just renting but as myself and husband are in our fiftys and we just think if we dont do it soon we never will 
we dont a bar to make us rich just one that could give the three of us a normal wage but in a country that we have always wanted to live

surley there must be people out there who have done this and are living a happy life 

diana


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## rjnpenang (Feb 20, 2008)

surley there must be people out there who have done this and are living a happy life 

Yes, there are, but, do not sell your house to rent something over here, times here are so bad its possible to rent a bar or small cafe quite easily, its a buyers market!.
If you´re so determined, leave the house empty in the UK, come over, rent an apartment and keep your ears open, talk to people, ask questions, its possible you could rent a business and just pay 2 months deposit, no premium, you are in the drivers seat, set your own terms, and then, if it doesn't work out you still have the house in the UK. Regards Rob


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

DIANA MC said:


> surley there must be people out there who have done this and are living a happy life
> 
> diana


Yes, there are, and a lot of us. But we tend to fall into the three categories I described in my previous post on this thread and didn't come here at the start of what could be the worst recession Spain has known since the end of the Civil War.
The reality -even if you succeed -will be long hours with if you are lucky a small profit at the end of it. 
You don't say whether you have run a business involving premises and thus overheads...rent, utilities, stock ordering, dealing with tax authorities and auditors,staff wages and so on. If you have had no experience of that kind, imagine what it would be like dealing with all that as a novice and in a foreign country whose language you may struggle to learn. It's bad enough in the UK.
I know of someone who invested money in a bar and who on Day One of opening had not one single customer. Day Two he took the grand sum of 50 euros. He still owes money to the contractors who carried out the refurbishing needed. Crunch time will come when he faces utilities and tax bills or needs to replenish depleted stock.
Posters here are trying to tell you how it really is here. For reasons I have never understood, would-be British immigrants see Spain as a land of opportunity, a place to 'live the dream'. It may have been once but it's turned into a nightmare for far too many people who have been forced to up sticks and return to the UK which, as Jo pointed out, for all its perceived faults is a kinder, gentler place than recession-hit Spain.
Whatever you do, do not sell your UK property unless you have fall-back funds sufficient to keep you until pension age if unemployed or a high-yield pension portfolio.
You may find it difficult to get back on the property ladder if you are forced to return to the UK.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

I think what you have to ask yourself is what are you wanting your life to be like and why you think Spain can offer you anything better than the Uk, apart from the weather in the summer

Jo xxxx


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

jojo said:


> I think what you have to ask yourself is what are you wanting your life to be like and why you think Spain can offer you anything better than the Uk, apart from the weather in the summer
> 
> Jo xxx QUOTE
> 
> ...


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

DIANA MC said:


> hi just like to say thanks to everyone who has sent a reply
> just a few answers to the questions
> 
> both my husband and i are self employed here in the uk he has been self employed as a cab driver for 20 years and i have my own beauty business and have had for 3 years
> ...


Yes, there must be, and I really understand about if you don't do it now, it might not happen. It's just that unfortunately this is not a good time for Spain.
I would go along with what many people have said beforehand - don't sell your house right now and come over for long stays if you can, and if not a few 4 day stays and see what you find, what's on offer and what the place is like.


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## DIANA MC (Jun 28, 2010)

pesky wesky said:


> yes, there must be, and i really understand about if you don't do it now, it might not happen. It's just that unfortunately this is not a good time for spain.
> I would go along with what many people have said beforehand - don't sell your house right now and come over for long stays if you can, and if not a few 4 day stays and see what you find, what's on offer and what the place is like.


that is something we are going to do any way 
but as we are not looking to coming over till end of next summer do you think that maybe it may of improved a bit by then 

and when we do come over do you think other bar owners will be willing to speak to us


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

DIANA MC said:


> and when we do come over do you think other bar owners will be willing to speak to us


I don't see why not, as long as you don't say "I'm thinking of buying the bar across the street in direct competition with you"!! The other thing is it's probably the main topic of conversation they have with their expat customers so it might be a little boring???? But you've got to ask haven't you?!


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

DIANA MC said:


> that is something we are going to do any way
> but as we are not looking to coming over till end of next summer do you think that maybe it may of improved a bit by then
> 
> and when we do come over do you think other bar owners will be willing to speak to us


I think most bar owners, on hearing that you want to buy a bar, will be begging you to buy theirs


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

DIANA MC said:


> that is something we are going to do any way
> but as we are not looking to coming over till end of next summer do you think that maybe it may of improved a bit by then
> 
> and when we do come over do you think other bar owners will be willing to speak to us



I dont think they'll mind at all. I often strike up conversations with waitresses/bar owners if I'm in an English bar - you know, "hows business" and they're always very friendly, I've never had anyone openly admit that they're going bust, but reading between the lines, you can tell most are struggling. But as PW says, dont suggest that you're about to open up in direct competition lol. Also if you just sit and listen to them chatting to regulars etc you get an idea of things. The one thing not to do is to visit a bar thats for sale with an agent at a predetermined time. They'll invite "rent a crowd" in, so that they look busy!!! I know because I've been a "rent a crowd"!!!!!

Jo xxx


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## country boy (Mar 10, 2010)

I used to let a garage owner friend of mine park his spare cars on our forecourt when we had an Hotel in the UK, worked a treat. We always looked busy so consequently were:juggle:


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