# Will the elections in September be free and fair?



## Horus (Sep 17, 2010)

I am just wondering do people actually think the elections in September will be free and fair and where do people honestly see Egypt heading in the next 6 months and will Mubaruk actually step down and who could likely take over? Will it get better, stay the same or get worse?

My opinion is the government is listening, they have no choice but will they act - and I wonder what if giving people freedom of speech and the right to peaceful protest might cause more problems as Egypt has some serious issues to address such as unemployment and poverty and in the future there could even be food shortages due to climate change, something that needs to be looked at


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## MaidenScotland (Jun 6, 2009)

The government IMO is making a gesture and nothing else, it is not even a gesture to the people but to the USA. Will the elections be free and fair? Not if any of Mubaraks cronies stand after all they know the election needs to be rigged for them to win and if this is not the case why have they been rigged for the last 30 years.
I have vague memories of Mubarak once saying " we can send the people from Imbaba to fight for us because they are worth nothing" or words to that affect.
4 or 5 years 30 plus Sudanese were shot dead by the police outside the united nations building in Mohandiseen.
The Massacre Of Sudanese Refugees In Cairo

Stability in the middle east has been at the expense of the Egyptian people,


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## DeadGuy (Jan 22, 2010)

MaidenScotland said:


> The government IMO is making a gesture and nothing else, it is not even a gesture to the people but to the USA. Will the elections be free and fair? Not if any of Mubaraks cronies stand after all they know the election needs to be rigged for them to win and if this is not the case why have they been rigged for the last 30 years.
> I have vague memories of Mubarak once saying " we can send the people from Imbaba to fight for us because they are worth nothing" or words to that affect.
> 4 or 5 years 30 plus Sudanese were shot dead by the police outside the united nations building in Mohandiseen.
> The Massacre Of Sudanese Refugees In Cairo
> ...



Well said :clap2:

The guy obviously did not learn his lesson yet, he obviously still believes that he’s still got everything “under control” 

If the “elections” were to happen with the current “president” and HIS cabinet then it will be just same sh!t, different day, dunno if any of you heard about what’s been going on in the last couple of days down south, El Wadi El Gedeed province, but +120 people got shot by the police and the criminals who were set free by the police in there, and that’s a “new” interior minster in charge now 

The way it sounds like? They’d probably get a puppet that the majority of people aren’t really familiar with, and drop the usual +90% for “their” candidate to something like +60% instead! And that’s probably why the US got the opinion that he should be staying till the next elections now, after saying that he needs to leave ASAP, but hopefully they wouldn’t go for one of the MB, cause obviously those people managed to push themselves into the negotiations now 

God bless the democracy


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## Eco-Mariner (Jan 26, 2011)

*Stability ?*



MaidenScotland said:


> Stability in the middle east has been at the expense of the Egyptian people,


Egypt has never been stable.... The country has always been affected by power struggles for six thousand years since the Pharoahs. King Farouk ruled by fear until 1952 when Nasser ousted that sovereign regime, using the armies to keep in power. His associate Anwar al-Sadat took over in 1970 after Nasser's death but was himself assasinated in October 6th 1981 at the hands of fundamentalists assasins.

What else has changed since Mubarak took power? Nothing....
Except they all grew richer from the NDP manipulation of the military.

This People's Revolution could be the breaking of the mould, which definately was the result of information technology shared by global sympathisers. What it needs now is the Army to consider that the best way forward for them, that will keep control is for a true and fair democracy to rise from this conflict. It would secure their present funding programme and possibleykeep the balance and political stability on its Israeli border. 

As for change, well why not give the Youth a chance? There are some brilliant minds that need to shine and given the next elections, will prove that they can.


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## MaidenScotland (Jun 6, 2009)

Eco-Mariner said:


> Egypt has never been stable.... The country has always been affected by power struggles for six thousand years since the Pharoahs. King Farouk ruled by fear until 1952 when Nasser ousted that sovereign regime, using the armies to keep in power. His associate Anwar al-Sadat took over in 1970 after Nasser's death but was himself assasinated in October 6th 1981 at the hands of fundamentalists assasins.
> 
> What else has changed since Mubarak took power? Nothing....
> Except they all grew richer from the NDP manipulation of the military.
> ...



I meant stable from Americas point of view... oil and Isreal


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## Sonrisa (Sep 2, 2010)

Yes, there are some that are very uncomfortable with the idea of a democracy and free and fair elections in Egypt. Palestinians had their free elections and ended up with Hamas. IF free elections were to happen tomorrow I wonder what will be the results here in Egypt. 

Personally I approve the idea of democracy in Egypt, but sadly I don't trust that the mayority of egyptians will vote what is best for their future.


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## MaidenScotland (Jun 6, 2009)

Sonrisa said:


> Yes, there are some that are very uncomfortable with the idea of a democracy and free and fair elections in Egypt. Palestinians had their free elections and ended up with Hamas. IF free elections were to happen tomorrow I wonder what will be the results here in Egypt.
> 
> Personally I approve the idea of democracy in Egypt, but sadly I don't trust that the mayority of egyptians will vote what is best for their future.




But that is up to the Egyptians and not us... after all we can leave


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## Sonrisa (Sep 2, 2010)

YEs, and we surely will leave. But again egyptians have to be very careful what they whish for and don't let any form of extremism take over the peoples ideals. After all most have been deprived from any form of acceptable education for decades so it would be only too easy for some political groups to promise ideals that cannot be delivered. 

There are parties that will try to take advantage of peoples poverty ignorance and desperation to turn it into extremism. I wonder if that will be the case should free elections take place soon.


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## Eco-Mariner (Jan 26, 2011)

*United States point of view ?*



MaidenScotland said:


> I meant stable from Americas point of view... oil and Isreal


I think the Egyptian Youth Movement will always need US and Global support even though that comes at a price.... Oil and gas, Suez Canal etc. but this could be to their advantage if they hold the new balance of power in a coalition government.

$800 million a day lost in trade. 80% of tourism affected which accounts for 10% of Egypt's GDP. The Middle East is likely to explode as the huge Crescent of Islam around the Arab States is showing signs of awakening.

For sure these need addressing, but revenue from Egypt's natural reserves and resources were never a bargaining point... In Sudan maybe.

My main concerns have aways been the marine-ecosystem and over-use of these resources, highlighted in posts concerning shark-finning and exploitation from Asian fishing fleets. The Red Sea is not sustainable and good practices should be put into place. The Mubarak Regime would never do this. 

Putting its overpopulated poverty stricken workers/migrants amongst tourist resorts was a recipe for disaster as the rules and regulations are constantly broken. It is allowed to exist by a massively corrupt police force that taxes everyone and anything to subsidise their poor wages. A 15% increase on $45 per month will not stop them holding everyone to ransom. It's a desease that is firmly embedded in its society.

I'm pinning my hopes and vote to the April 6th Youth Movement now they've lost the fear element.


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## MaidenScotland (Jun 6, 2009)

Sonrisa said:


> YEs, and we surely will leave. But again egyptians have to be very careful what they whish for and don't let any form of extremism take over the peoples ideals. After all most have been deprived from any form of acceptable education for decades so it would be only too easy for some political groups to promise ideals that cannot be delivered.
> 
> There are parties that will try to take advantage of peoples poverty ignorance and desperation to turn it into extremism. I wonder if that will be the case should free elections take place soon.




all political parties make promises that cannot be delivers.. world wide problem


You cannot suggest that only the educated and rich get a vote... that was basically what was happening albeit fixed voting.


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## Sonrisa (Sep 2, 2010)

Im not proposing that they shouldnt be free. I believe that the middle East would be a better place if democracy was well implemented. But I believe that the mayority of egyptians will choose the wrong leaders wich may ultimately have disastrous results regarding their own economic growth and the very fragile peace that now exists in the region.


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## Eco-Mariner (Jan 26, 2011)

I think you underestimate the modern thinking society in Egypt.

The only thing that surpressed them in the past was the Secret Police and their corrupt military.

The Internet and social media networks have placed a whole new tool into the equasion. The world is quite a different place these days.


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## Sonrisa (Sep 2, 2010)

Eco-Mariner said:


> I think you underestimate the modern thinking society in Egypt.
> 
> The only thing that surpressed them in the past was the Secret Police and their corrupt military.
> 
> The Internet and social media networks have placed a whole new tool into the equasion. The world is quite a different place these days.


I hope you are right. But the literacy rates in Egypt are low, especially in the rural areas where is almost 70%. Yes the modern thinking of egyptian society and internet activist have my entire respect but I wonder if they take into account that extremism may find this is their great chance.
Time will tell


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## DeadGuy (Jan 22, 2010)

Eco-Mariner said:


> I think you underestimate the modern thinking society in Egypt.
> 
> The only thing that surpressed them in the past was the Secret Police and their corrupt military.
> 
> The Internet and social media networks have placed a whole new tool into the equasion. The world is quite a different place these days.


The "secret" police is still present and functioning, the "National security" agency is NOT suspended so far........

I’m afraid it’s more of what Sonrisa is saying, if there was a democratic elections right now then the votes will be given to the wrong ones.

I did mention that in another thread, but you need to realize that Egypt is a BIG country with a population that exceeds 80 millions, everyone who’s +18 is entitled a vote, yes there are lots of smart people with bright minds and a promising future, but unfortunately, they’re NOT the majority in here, around 80% of the population are simply brain washed!

If you ask a regular man on the streets what he thinks the best for this country the automatic answer that you’d get would probably go like “To have an Islamic country”, now it’s not about religion for me, but it’s about people repeating things that they don’t even know what it means, if you ask them what they mean by “Islamic country” then they’d probably start stuttering and then start cursing you and accusing you of being against “Islam” regardless of the fact that it was them who first mentioned Islam!!

The son of a b!tch worked really hard in the last 30 years on getting an ignorant society, and now the society is looking for one thing, him to leave, the majority of the population don’t really care who’s gonna be in charge if he left, they just want him to leave! And considering the presence of the MB in Egypt, and how deep they managed to penetrate people’s minds in here? It won’t be a hard job for them to win the elections, and if you could see what’s been happening in the last few days, the MB first said that they got no interest whatsoever in joining the next presidential race, and that they’re not gonna negotiate the current regime, but then couple days later, surprise! They are negotiating!

Now this might sound complicated, I do support the democracy, but the available options in here need to be taken into consideration, and what’s really more important? People need to be taught about what the bloody word “democracy” means! Cause yes, the "modern thinking" society does exist in Egypt, but sadly, they're not the majority in here 

However it's simply a game now, a waiting game, but the data given by the current situation? It was 50/50 in the last week, now it's more of 60% the country will hit the bottom in just a couple of months


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## Eco-Mariner (Jan 26, 2011)

To sum up your scenario DG if Egyptians were asked the question *"what do you want from a government?"* the answer would undoubtedly be *FREEDOM*.

Freedom from a sovereign dictator, freedom from a military dictator and freedom from Muslim dictatorship.......

These people _are where they are_ in the country's evolution. To lose the chance of freedom in the next election, now after all the struggle, would be a backward step.


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## DeadGuy (Jan 22, 2010)

Eco-Mariner said:


> To sum up your scenario DG if Egyptians were asked the question *"what do you want from a government?"* the answer would undoubtedly be *FREEDOM*.
> 
> *Freedom from a sovereign dictator, freedom from a military dictator and freedom from Muslim dictatorship.......*
> 
> These people _are where they are_ in the country's evolution. To lose the chance of freedom in the next election, now after all the struggle, would be a backward step.


You're partially right.........

But you still didn't realize the *fact *that what you consider to be "Muslim dictatorship" is a STRONG belief in people's heads in here, they were........What's the word? Programmed? To ACCEPT that as a righteous way of living? So for them? It's not a problem to be under a Muslim dictator, cause for them it's not even a dictatorship.......

To lose the chance of the freedom in the next election after all this would definitely be a step backward I totally agree, but to ABUSE a chance like this just to produce ANOTHER version of a dictatorship wouldn't be a step forward either, at least people FINALLY did realize that they were being abused, I wonder how long would it take them to realize it if it happened again...........


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