# living 170 days in spain



## kittypooh (Oct 21, 2012)

I've been thinking about moving to Spain however I have come to understand that if I stay more than 180 days in Spain it's going to become an issue with my Uk company (as apparently I would become a resident in Spain).

So the next idea is this:
Buy a home in Spain, and keep a small place in the Uk and live 170 days of the year in Spain.

If I choose to do that, would that perhaps let me keep my company in the Uk and keep my Uk clients and invoice in the Uk.

As I have come to understand, nobody seem to know Spanish tax law (perhaps I'm over exaggerating here), and the last thing I want to do is break the law somewhere along the way, so perhaps this is the best solution?

Can I go to Spain, rent a flat for a couple of months and get an NIE and residencia, go back tot he Uk and eventually purchase a house in Spain?
The reason why I want to go and do all this now but not buy the house yet, is more to see if I like it or not over there.

Does the residencia or NIE expire if I am out of Spain for a longer period?

Also, if I have somehow been miss-informed regarding keeping my UK limited company and living longer or permanently in Spain please let me know.

I'm still a bit unsure what the best course of action is when it comes to relocating to Spain.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

kittypooh said:


> I've been thinking about moving to Spain however I have come to understand that if I stay more than 180 days in Spain it's going to become an issue with my Uk company (as apparently I would become a resident in Spain).
> 
> So the next idea is this:
> Buy a home in Spain, and keep a small place in the Uk and live 170 days of the year in Spain.
> ...


tax & residency are two separate things....

if you're here more than 90 consecutive days you are considered resident & need to register as such - but you're right in that you aren't tax resident unless you are here more than 182 days out of 365 - so it would be perfectly legal for you to do as you suggest - in fact if you were popping in & out a lot you wouldn't have to register as resident either if you were never here more than 90 days

however.........anyone can buy a property here - you can get a non-resident NIE number in order to that - the number itself never expires, although the actual certificate does - there is no need to register as resident to buy property


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## jp1 (Jun 11, 2011)

It's even more simple than that.

Don't register as resident after 90 days, you come out for a 5 month holiday and go back home after. As long as you don't need to integrate into Spanish society (children in schools, register with a doctor etc) then why register. The only issue you could have is driving a car, if it's UK registered it will attract attention, but there is no time limit on how long you can drive a car in another EU country if you are NON-RESIDENT. But for practical purposes after 6 months in Spain with a UK registered car it could be seized.

As an aside I have just spent 4 months in Spain with my car, I researched absolutely every legal aspect of it, and at the end of the day you just have to be pragmatic.

I was not going to register as resident after 90 days when I was on a 4 month holiday, and then all the implications that would create. If you are going to view it as a 5 month holiday then do just that.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

jp1 said:


> It's even more simple than that.
> 
> Don't register as resident after 90 days, you come out for a 5 month holiday and go back home after. As long as you don't need to integrate into Spanish society (children in schools, register with a doctor etc) then why register. The only issue you could have is driving a car, if it's UK registered it will attract attention, but there is no time limit on how long you can drive a car in another EU country if you are NON-RESIDENT. But for practical purposes after 6 months in Spain with a UK registered car it could be seized.
> 
> ...


which conveniently ignores the *legal requirement *to register after 90 days......


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## jp1 (Jun 11, 2011)

Which is why I said you have to be pragmatic.

Would anyone seriously consider registering as resident at 90 days when they will leave the country in 30 days time. Also as an aside I would not meet the new requirements of income and health cover. So I wouldn't be able to register in any case.

I would have been laughed out of the social security office when I stated I am here on holiday for 4 months, I return home permanently in 30 days, can I register as resident please?

I also didn't get the temporary import licence for my car at the border crossing between France and Spain when I crossed over in July. If you remember I wrote a whole thread on legal aspects of driving in Spain back in June and stated that technically this is something that one must do when taking your car in Spain.

Yes, the real world and the EU documented one is very different.


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## jp1 (Jun 11, 2011)

And here was the thread I started.

http://www.expatforum.com/expats/sp...ain-visitor-period-greater-than-3-months.html


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

jp1 said:


> And here was the thread I started.
> 
> http://www.expatforum.com/expats/sp...ain-visitor-period-greater-than-3-months.html


yes I remember - but the OP was only asking about registering as resident, buying property & tax implications - so it's irrelevant to this thread

and I also remember that I said that people coming for long holidays of more than 90 days probably wouldn't bother registering as resident - but that was last March & the rules have tightened up considerably since then - people trying to use EHIC cards beyond the 90 days are being refused etc etc - even genuine holidaymakers

so I guess the questions is - 'is it worth it?'

or better to stay within the law


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## NickZ (Jun 26, 2009)

xabiachica said:


> tax & residency are two separate things....
> 
> if you're here more than 90 consecutive days you are considered resident & need to register as such - but you're right in that you aren't tax resident unless you are here more than 182 days out of 365 -


That's not exactly true. The rules for tax residency are more related to centre of interests then to the number of days. Unless a person can some how end up in a situation that is a perfect tie between two countries the number of days isn't going to matter.

http://www.agenciatributaria.es/AEA...sidentes/Folletos_divulgativos/irnringles.pdf



> Individuals shall be deemed to have their principal
> residence in Spain if they meet any of the
> following conditions:
> • They spend more than 183 days per calendar
> ...


That's three tests and only at best an indirect reference to the tax treaty with it's own tests.


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## NickZ (Jun 26, 2009)

kittypooh said:


> Also, if I have somehow been miss-informed regarding keeping my UK limited company and living longer or permanently in Spain please let me know.
> 
> .


Check with your UK accountant but an limited company has it's OWN tax residency.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

NickZ said:


> That's not exactly true. The rules for tax residency are more related to centre of interests then to the number of days. Unless a person can some how end up in a situation that is a perfect tie between two countries the number of days isn't going to matter.
> 
> http://www.agenciatributaria.es/AEA...sidentes/Folletos_divulgativos/irnringles.pdf
> 
> ...


except that after 90 days you are considered & are expected to register as_* resident*_

which has nothing to to do with *tax *residency


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## NickZ (Jun 26, 2009)

I wouldn't count on that. I could see the Spanish tax agency making the claim that a person who has residence in Spain is domiciled in Spain and there fore a tax resident.

How would a person argue with that?


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

For what it's worth, I've learnt this since living in Spain.
On a couple of occasions when I've asked about a law relating to dogs, cars, taxes, stuff like that,my Spanish friends and acquaintances tend to dismissively reply, 'Don't worry....nada pasa'.

But they agree that should something indeed pasa, mucho mierdo tambien pasa.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

NickZ said:


> I wouldn't count on that. I could see the Spanish tax agency making the claim that a person who has residence in Spain is domiciled in Spain and there fore a tax resident.
> 
> How would a person argue with that?


unless they had a property & a job in the UK - as is the case of the OP

in the OP's case, I think I'd probably come back & forth for less than the 90 days at a time & less than the 183 days in total each year

and make sure I kept tickets to prove it - just in case 

the chances are though, that even if they had to do a tax declaration, they probably wouldn't have to actually _pay _anything


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## lynn (Sep 25, 2008)

If you have a UK limited company, it will remain within the UK tax system. You can pay yourself a salary and pay NI which will give you reciprocal health cover in Spain. You can therefore become resident in Spain , and will have to do a UK and Spanish tax return, but as you will have already paid UK tax, you won't have to pay any more....


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## jp1 (Jun 11, 2011)

Yes I appreciate the OP hasn't mentioned about cars, but it was worth mentioning it unless he's going to use public transport.

I agree do things legally, but the practicalities of the situation may mean it's not possible, which was the case for me. The OP is going to stay approximately 1 month longer than I did, so it may also be the case as well.

Other things to consider:- Registers as resident on first day in Spain and then what about the following...

House insurance on UK property *is it now still valid as he's non resident?*
Car insurance on UK car (if he has one) *is it now still valid as he's non resident?*
ISA's, NS&I accounts *Still valid as he's non resident?*
UK bank accounts? Valid if not resident. What happens if you are subject to identity fraud in the UK when a Spanish resident. They may have a case about it being your problem?
UK GP registration *Still valid as he's non resident?*
Transfer of NI based pension rights to Spain on registration and back again when de-registering.
Any other issue where you have to state how long have you been a UK resident.
Voting in UK elections (Local, national)?
EHIC health card invalid?
Requirement to have private medical insurance in Spain?

Not knowing the OP positions but registering to make a permanent move to another EU country is one thing, but a temporary 5 months stay is another as I have highlighted above causes additional problems.

But's it's the OP decision whether he registers resident or not, I am just pointing out that it will affect all aspects of his life and it's not just a simple case of registering. Have a problem in the UK, whilst pretending to be a UK resident but you have registered in Spain, could bite you.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

jp1 said:


> Yes I appreciate the OP hasn't mentioned about cars, but it was worth mentioning it unless he's going to use public transport.
> 
> I agree do things legally, but the practicalities of the situation may mean it's not possible, which was the case for me. The OP is going to stay approximately 1 month longer than I did, so it may also be the case as well.
> 
> ...


1 point at a time

house insurance - you inform your insurance company - you change your insurance - we did that when we left my dad's house unoccupied when he came here 

car insurance - don't know

ISA's/ banks - don't know

GP & EHIC - not an issue - if you register as resident here & as *lynn *has said you can access state healthcare then you wouldn't be able to use the UK GP - but you'd have one here - also, you'd get the Spanish version of the EHIC (TSE) so that you could use it as a holidaymaker in the UK or anywhere else in Europe

I don't think the OP is intending to come for only 5 months - that was a way of being 'legal' if you will, with the info s/he had to hand


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## gus-lopez (Jan 4, 2010)

jp1 said:


> Which is why I said you have to be pragmatic.
> 
> Also as an aside I would not meet the new requirements of income and health cover. So I wouldn't be able to register in any case.
> 
> .


Registering is not the point . They cannot throw you out anyway. The offence is failing to APPLY to register for which you are fined. If you apply , & are turned down you still stay & have complied & can't be fined. 
You can apply in the UK for a certificate but it is not compulsory as they know they cannot throw you out even if you cannot comply ! ( & the rules in the UK re; income etc; are the same as here )


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## NickZ (Jun 26, 2009)

xabiachica said:


> unless they had a property & a job in the UK - as is the case of the OP
> 
> in the OP's case, I think I'd probably come back & forth for less than the 90 days at a time & less than the 183 days in total each year
> 
> ...



Yes I agree but registering for residence I think could easily lead to tax residency.

What's required to register? 


Place to live. Health cover. Income. 

You can't use the EU vacation form right?


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

NickZ said:


> Yes I agree but registering for residence I think could easily lead to tax residency.
> 
> What's required to register?
> 
> ...




no it doesn't - although there are those who wish it did!!

atm there are droves of people who would now qualify for free healthcare under the recent rule changes if only they had done tax returns - become tax resident officially - just having a resident registration certificate isn't enough to prove 'proper' residency


what's the EU vacation form??


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