# Applying for Teir1, 2, 5 visa while on Visitor's visa?



## flasher702 (May 14, 2010)

Can someone currently in UK on a long-term Visitors visa apply for a Teir 1, Teir 2, or Teir 5 visa without being adversely affected?

Background info:
My g/f is going to England for school for 1 year and I'm going with her. Obviously I'd like to work if I can get a job but I'm going even if I can't. I'll probably be like 5points short of being able to get a Teir1 (general) visa before I go, not sure how long it would take to find a sponsor for a Teir2 or Teir5 (temp) so I may not be able to get one before my desired departure date. I think I should be able to convince them to give me a 1year visitors visa for 12consecutive months as I could show that I have plenty of money, a return ticket, and a valid reason to be there. Or should I just get a 1year visa and try to go for ~6months and then bounce home for a couple weeks before returning for the remaining ~6months (and possibly enter from an EU country to avoid immigration screening, which wouldn't technically be illegal if I had a valid 1year visa, correct? I just don't need some random agent deciding they don't like my story and sending me home.)? The only info I can find on ukvisas.gov.uk about this topic is that you must "not intend to take employment in the UK" if you're applying for a visitor's visa. How strict is that requirement? Is it ok to intend to apply for a workp permit while on a visitor's visa or would I get kicked back out if I applied for a job and requested sponsorship?


----------



## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

flasher702 said:


> Can someone currently in UK on a long-term Visitors visa apply for a Teir 1, Teir 2, or Teir 5 visa without being adversely affected?
> 
> Background info:
> My g/f is going to England for school for 1 year and I'm going with her. Obviously I'd like to work if I can get a job but I'm going even if I can't. I'll probably be like 5points short of being able to get a Teir1 (general) visa before I go, not sure how long it would take to find a sponsor for a Teir2 or Teir5 (temp) so I may not be able to get one before my desired departure date. I think I should be able to convince them to give me a 1year visitors visa for 12consecutive months as I could show that I have plenty of money, a return ticket, and a valid reason to be there. Or should I just get a 1year visa and try to go for ~6months and then bounce home for a couple weeks before returning for the remaining ~6months (and possibly enter from an EU country to avoid immigration screening, which wouldn't technically be illegal if I had a valid 1year visa, correct? I just don't need some random agent deciding they don't like my story and sending me home.)? The only info I can find on ukvisas.gov.uk about this topic is that you must "not intend to take employment in the UK" if you're applying for a visitor's visa. How strict is that requirement? Is it ok to intend to apply for a workp permit while on a visitor's visa or would I get kicked back out if I applied for a job and requested sponsorship?


Your options are quite limited. As a US citizen you don't need a visa for a visit, but you can only stay for 6 months, and you cannot extend it. Nor can you switch to any other visa category while you are on a visit (it's just not allowed, and your application will be 100% refused). There is no such thing as 12-month visitor's visa. Your only chance of an extended stay in UK longer than 6 months includes student visa (but you must be accepted by a uni for a degree course or above and be able to pay £10k plus tuition fees, plus maintenance from your savings or regular remittance from your parents or scholarship). If you try to do a 'visa run' after spending the full 6 months in UK, you will be stopped at the immigration and have a good chance of being turned away, on the ground that you aren't a genuine visitor but trying to stay in UK long term, and possibly work illegally. Returning via another EU country doesn't work, as everyone coming from outside UK will be subject to strict immigration control (UK isn't part of Schengen). You face minimum checks coming from the Republic of Ireland, but you will be grilled on arrival in Ireland, and if they suspect you are trying a back-door entry into UK, you are again likely to be refused entry and put on the next flight home. 
Any mention of work or work visa, or the immigration officer's suspicions about them while you are trying to enter as a visitor, will likely to lead to a grilling in an interview room and being swiftly removed as an illegal immigrant. Yes they are *extremely *strict about it (UK has 2.5 million unemployed and growing) and you get no sympathy nor benefit of the doubt. 
Just come over for a visit and then leave, or wait until you accumulate enough points for Tier 1 or get fixed up with sponsorship - very difficult - for Tier 2, unless you are in shortage occupation as specified on UK Border Agency site. You aren't eligible for Tier 5 (Youth Mobility Scheme) as it isn't available to Americans.


----------



## flasher702 (May 14, 2010)

Thanks for your prompt reply Joppa. I double checked the guidance on INF2 and, indeed, even if I have a 10year Visitor's visa I'm still only supposed to stay for a maximum of 180days in any 12month period. But I don't need a visa at all to do that... ww. ukvisas.gov.uk/en/howtoapply/infs/inf2visitors#21230918

I'm not wanting to do anything horribly unusual. So if your spouse is in UK for school or on a work visa or something you're only allowed to visit 180days/year, period? You can't get a spouse or dependent visa unless they are settled residents which doesn't apply to students or work visa holders. I've heard of people taking their spouses and children with them to the UK when they go for school and work on a temporary basis. How did they do it? And why would UK want to stop me from spending all my money in their country? *confused*

I'm not likely to have any more points anytime in the near future and will actually lose a bunch of my age points in 2 years :/ I didn't think I was even close to being able to get a Teir1 but finding out I'm so close but not quite is really frustrating. While not impossible it's unlikely that I'll increase my income 20% in the next 6 months to get those 5 extra points.


----------



## flasher702 (May 14, 2010)

Oh, and I was talkign about Teir 5 (Temporary Worker) not the Student Mobility Scheme. 
ww. ukvisas.gov.uk/en/howtoapply/infs/inf27pbstempworker

It's good for up to 12months for charity work, professional sports, or ART. I might become an artist here in short order...


----------



## flasher702 (May 14, 2010)

and one more post so I can fix my links....


----------



## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

flasher702 said:


> Thanks for your prompt reply Joppa. I double checked the guidance on INF2 and, indeed, even if I have a 10year Visitor's visa I'm still only supposed to stay for a maximum of 180days in any 12month period. But I don't need a visa at all to do that... ww. ukvisas.gov.uk/en/howtoapply/infs/inf2visitors#21230918
> 
> I'm not wanting to do anything horribly unusual. So if your spouse is in UK for school or on a work visa or something you're only allowed to visit 180days/year, period? You can't get a spouse or dependent visa unless they are settled residents which doesn't apply to students or work visa holders. I've heard of people take their spouses and children with them to the UK when they go for school and work on a temporary basis. How did they do it? And why would they want UK to stop me from spending all my money in their country? *confused*
> 
> I'm not likely to have any more points anytime in the near future and will actually lose a bunch of my age points in 2 years :/ I didn't think I was even close to being able to get a Teir1 but finding out I'm so close but not quite is really frustrating. While not impossible it's unlikely that I'll increase my income 20% in the next 6 months to get those 5 extra points.


Those people who bring their family over to UK while they work or study are married or in long-term relationship (minimum 2 years of cohabitation and intend to live together permanently), and their dependants are issued with the right kind of visa for that purpose. You, on the other hand, have to qualify in your own right for a suitable visa, which makes it much more difficult, given the limitation placed on the issue of work visa from outside EU. While you have no intention to abuse the welfare system or get illegal work in UK, the fact that there isn't a suitable visa you can apply for makes it so difficult for you to realise your plans. UK has been pruning visa categories over the years to allow only carefully defined groups of migrants to come over. There used to be a visa category of people of independent means, who don't intend to take up jobs in UK but live solely on their savings or other income from abroad for an extended period of time, but it's no more. I suspect the reason for it was the realisation that these people were getting more out of UK than putting in, with free health care and other public services, while not contributing economically through work or self-employment. Already the UK has to absorbe a large number of migrants and retirees from within EU, who have freedom to live and settle where they like, which is putting pressure on public services and existing housing stock to the detriment of indigenous population.
Other Tier 5 categories for temporary workers are quite restrictive and few people qualify. An artist has to be of recognised international reputation with a record of public exhibitions, publications and awards, and sportspeople have to be of international standard with a recent record of representing their country. Charity workers must belong to an estblished charitable organisation, and all arrangements have to be made while they are in their country, and usually only apply to programmes that are already in existence - not something created just for one's own benefit. Religious workers include clergy and missionaries, such as Mormons.


----------



## flasher702 (May 14, 2010)

I'm not becoming a Mormon just so I can get into the UK. I have to draw the line somewhere!

I don't see anything about special privileges for people who have been married +2years anywhere. Link please? If it takes two years we should probably move the wedding date up xD

Ok then what about this brilliant idea: spend half my time touring europe. How many times could I leave and re-enter before they get upset with me or will the be ok as long as I'm under 180days? 12 easyjet flights and 180days in hostels is only 2-4 times more expensive then flying across the pond and back.


----------



## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

flasher702 said:


> I'm not becoming a Mormon just so I can get into the UK. I have to draw the line somewhere!
> 
> I don't see anything about special privileges for people who have been married +2years anywhere. Link please? If it takes two years we should probably move the wedding date up xD
> 
> Ok then what about this brilliant idea: spend half my time touring europe. How many times could I leave and re-enter before they get upset with me or will the be ok as long as I'm under 180days? 12 easyjet flights and 180days in hostels is only 2-4 times more expensive then flying across the pond.


Look under dependant's visa for students and workers, such as UK Border Agency | Bringing your family and UK Border Agency | Applications by dependants
When you are married, your wife can apply for your dependant's visa, if you satisfy certain conditions, including a suitable accommodation for a couple and maintaining you without recourse to public funds. 
There is not set number of journeys before their suspicions are raised, but every time you try to return to UK, you have to satisfy all the conditions as a visitor, and if they see you flipping between UK and the continent , they will want to know why. And if they find out you have a girlfriend in UK, your chances of being refused entry become much greater.


----------



## flasher702 (May 14, 2010)

PBS (Dependents)!!! That's it! Exactly what I need. Don't have to be married either. THANK YOU!

Only good for 9months max but that's should be close enough.

This visa system is really screwy. PBS (Depenents) visas are only good for 9 months but you can't even apply for one against a Teir 4 student visa unless the course is at least 6 months long but you don't even need a visa for less than 6 months. So it nets you a whole 3 months over just popping over with nothing but a pane ticket. And how is that even supposed to work for having your family come with you if you're studying for more than 9months? And why don't they just make people pay a healthcare premium to get a visa if that's what they're so worried about? It'd probably be cheaper than what I'm paying now; I couldn't complain.


----------



## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

flasher702 said:


> PBS (Dependents)!!! That's it! Exactly what I need. Don't have to be married either. THANK YOU!
> 
> Only good for 9months max but that's should be close enough.
> 
> This visa system is really screwy. PBS (Depenents) visas are only good for 9 months but you can't even apply for one against a Teir 4 student visa unless the course is at least 6 months long but you don't even need a visa for less than 6 months. So it nets you a whole 3 months over just popping over with nothing but a pane ticket. And how is that even supposed to work for having your family come with you if you're studying for more than 9months? And why don't they just make people pay a healthcare premium to get a visa if that's what they're so worried about? It'd probably be cheaper than what I'm paying now; I couldn't complain.


To be a dependant (family member), you either need to be married, in (same sex) civil partnership or in long-term partnership of 2 or more years in a relationship akin to marriage. Just being a boy/girlfriend but living separately doesn't count.

If your course lasts, say, two years, you normally only get a visa initially for 9-12 months, and you reapply for an extension for your second year, provided you have made satisfactory academic progress and regular attendance. Dependant's visa will be for the same duration, and if you get one for 12 months or longer, you are allowed to work.


----------



## flasher702 (May 14, 2010)

Yeah, I read through the 21page policy guide and I can't find how they want us to prove that we are in a long-term partnership. And I still don't see anything about a "2 years" requirement. I made her the sole beneficiary to all of my life insurance and financial accounts like 4 years ago. We've lived together when she's not in school but it was always at my place so I'm not sure how I would prove that she was living there too.

Hmmm, I guess I read through the application and see if it has any more hints. OMG it's 51 pages long... I need a new g/f xD


----------



## flasher702 (May 14, 2010)

Ok, I went through the application and found the part of about an unmarried partnership needing have subsisted for at least 2 years by definition. But it doesn't say what they want for proof. And somewhere around here there was a big warning about how they won't consider documents they didn't ask for as evidence... clear as mud. I'll branch this off to a new thread here I think.


----------



## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

flasher702 said:


> Ok, I went through the application and found the part of about an unmarried partnership needing have subsisted for at least 2 years by definition. But it doesn't say what they want for proof. And somewhere around here there was a big warning about how they won't consider documents they didn't ask for as evidence... clear as mud. I'll branch this off to a new thread here I think.


See http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/s.../idischapter8/section9/annexz.pdf?view=Binary
and
http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/s...dischapter8/section9/section9.pdf?view=Binary

If the link doesn't work, click relevant documents in Section 9: UK Border Agency | Chapter 8 - Family members


----------



## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

From the page you cite, it looks like you're getting confused about the various visa types.

As her spouse or recognized civil partner, you would be included as a dependent under her student visa - which means you would not be able to work while in the UK. But, you would have had to include your application in with her original visa application - and would have had to show that she had the means to support both of you during your stay. That's how the people who are studying or working in the UK for a set period of time manage to bring their families over.

If you don't qualify as her dependent by having some sort of recognized civil union (which I think would include if you have been living together for a few years), you have to qualify on your own for a visa, which is difficult if you don't have a job offer or the skills to come up with enough points to qualify for the appropriate tier.
Cheers,
Bev


----------

