# Dubai Greed



## The Rascal (Aug 6, 2014)

Interesting piece in Arabian Business from Mishal Kanoo, deputy Chairman of Kanoo Group, I think it's so relevant to this town.

Here

Couple of soundbites:-



> If you look at most countries in most parts of the world, a Corolla or Hyundai Accord would be the average car, here the average car is either BMW or Mercedes and I’m not talking about the smaller series, either. When you have that it shows that there is more of a concentration on status than there is a concentration on value.





> There’s a lot of people thinking ‘I’m going to make a good living out of this’, rather than saying ‘this is an important part of the economy





> You can see the greed in people’s eyes


So relevant, and I know there'll be very few replies to this, but my advice to you is.

*If you want to make it big here, in terms of wealth and status, go and create value.​*
(Rascal leaves the room to thunderous applause).


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## Stevesolar (Dec 21, 2012)

Hi,
There are two types of ex-pats in Dubai.
Type 1 - they come here to help build this country and earn money for their family and create a future nest egg.
Type 2 - they come here to try and extract the money earnt by Type 1's

Cheers
Steve


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## INFAMOUS (Apr 19, 2011)

Lost me at "Hyundai Accord" .... Clearly they drive a BMW!


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## The Rascal (Aug 6, 2014)

PS:- The grammar and punctuation in that piece is horrendous.


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## INFAMOUS (Apr 19, 2011)

The Rascal said:


> PS:- The grammar and punctuation in that piece is horrendous.


LOL to be expected. Very relevant piece to the region tho.


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## TallyHo (Aug 21, 2011)

Did Kanoo mistate it, or was he misquoted? 

I wouldn't put it past the journalist to have been sloppy. 

Then we have accents. Hyundai .... Honda .... easy to confuse the two depending on how you pronounced it.




INFAMOUS said:


> Lost me at "Hyundai Accord" .... Clearly they drive a BMW!


Nothing exemplifies Dubai greed more than the landlords in this city, who deliberately try every trick in the book to illegally evict tenants and raise rents beyond the legally allowed increases. They bank on having naive expats who haven't been in the country long and sadly too many concede.


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## INFAMOUS (Apr 19, 2011)

TallyHo said:


> Nothing exemplifies Dubai greed more than the landlords in this city, who deliberately try every trick in the book to illegally evict tenants and raise rents beyond the legally allowed increases. They bank on having naive expats who haven't been in the country long and sadly too many concede.


You will be happy to know my landlord has been losing money off me 3 years in a row now


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## The Rascal (Aug 6, 2014)

BBC Article

Doesn't say much, apart from the whole world is waiting for a crash - but this is Dubai, it's not the real world eh?


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## imac (Oct 14, 2012)

i'm personally an american muscle car guy, so this may be a stupid question but... arn't the hyundai accord and the landcruiser patrol the same car?


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## Tropicana (Apr 29, 2010)

From the BBC piece...

_When foreigners were permitted to buy in 2002, it helped turn the obscure fishing village into a global hub._

Anyone who saw Dubai in the 90s and turn of century will know how it annoying it can be to see that period's Dubai being depicted as an "obscure" (or "sleepy") fishing village....


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## A.Abbass (Jun 28, 2014)

Interesting article. I also like the first comment to the article.



> Posted by: Rja
> Friday, 10 April 2015 6:06 PM[UAE] - UK
> I really enjoyed Mr. Kanoo's views and tend to agree with him. Unfortunately the exploitive attitude of allot of the younger generation who move,here can be traced to how things work in the ME. As far as expats are concerned most will always consider themselves to be just that- "expats". So the norm becomes "how quickly can I amass wealth and go home." People don't believe they can really put roots down, so concern about the right thing to do for the economy or the place where they live is usually relatively short lived. Between the "immediate gratification" culture, that is pandemic on the planet today, and the temporality,may lie part of the reason for the abundance of hyper -greed and the expectation of massive, quick returns?


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## Stevesolar (Dec 21, 2012)

A.Abbass said:


> Interesting article. I also like the first comment to the article.


Hi,
That is really an extension of the quite extreme "us and them" feeling that you actually get living here.
I have lived and worked all over the world and my first expat stint was in Saudi Arabia in 1984.
You always get the feeling that you are only a paid guest in Middle East countries - with no hope of becoming a citizen through any naturalisation process.
This makes it harder to instill a feeling of "belonging" - before you then look at any cultural differences.
It is also noticable at Bank holidays - with wide differences betwen government and private sector holiday days off - again this breeds an "us and them" feeling.
Cheers
Steve


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## A.Abbass (Jun 28, 2014)

Stevesolar said:


> Hi,
> That is really an extension of the quite extreme "us and them" feeling that you actually get living here.
> I have lived and worked all over the world and my first expat stint was in Saudi Arabia in 1984.
> You always get the feeling that you are only a paid guest in Middle East countries - with no hope of becoming a citizen through any naturalisation process.
> ...


Indeed, I was born here and worked in KSA, Bahrain & UAE and always felt the same as well.

It is worth mentioning also that Bahrain is the only exception to this rule, where you can easily acquire citizenship if you fulfilled their requirements, which is not tough at all, they even give citizenship to expats who don't even speak arabic.


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## Gavtek (Aug 23, 2009)

Stevesolar said:


> Hi,
> There are two types of ex-pats in Dubai.
> Type 1 - they come here to help build this country and earn money for their family and create a future nest egg.
> Type 2 - they come here to try and extract the money earnt by Type 1's
> ...


I guess I'm type 1a. I want to earn money for my family but I couldn't care less about building the country. I'm just here to "mind my business" then leave when I don't like it as I have been reminded since the day I stepped off the plane. 

I'm sure plenty of other ex-pats are here just for that, to just get their heads down and get on with their work for the duration of their assignments without any romanticised notions of helping to build a society. 

Anyway, I'm not sure how fair it is to say that greed is solely originating from the ex-pats. As the saying goes, "when in Rome...."


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## A.Abbass (Jun 28, 2014)

This is also worth reading, just published today in the GDN.

Pension, longer visa for Dubai expats proposed | GulfNews.com


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## TallyHo (Aug 21, 2011)

There was something written not long ago, a week maybe? Quoting a senior UAE official saying that it wouldn't be long before eliminating the need for a local sponsor for companies trading in the UAE.

Signs of a maturing economy? 

But I'm sure there will be a major tradeoff, namely that hated word.... taxes. 



A.Abbass said:


> This is also worth reading, just published today in the GDN.
> 
> Pension, longer visa for Dubai expats proposed | GulfNews.com


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## AstorR (Mar 2, 2015)

There will always be a 1. and a 2. category of individual (I'd agree with Gavtek's slight amendment to 1. with the omission of people consciously not caring). A in-between is vital for the stability. I personally think this 'keep my head down and leave' ethos comes from their being no concept of a 'forever' here. If a 'stay' atmosphere were to be created, I genuinely think people would stay.

I'm very mindful however that there are many different factors to why the above is not the case.


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## twowheelsgood (Feb 21, 2013)

TallyHo said:


> Signs of a maturing economy?


Probably not - what the UAE lacks is the local equivalent of a 'white van man' who is an entrepreneur. They existed in the 70's but the comfort of money and wealth has removed much of the incentive for people to start meaningful businesses.

The local families have all the power here, but gain that power purely through heritage and nationality, rather than ability and skill. We all meet highly qualified but utterly clueless hosts and we just accept it because it is the condition of our presence here. One only has to look at the demographics here to understand that this is unsustainable as generations of young Emiratis are wanting more than a paperpushing role in the public sector, but the economics of the place work against them. If an Emirati decides they want to start an engineering company for example, they can do it using their 'wasta' but the place pretty much has to be staffed by foreigners as the locals are uneconomic to employ and salaries pushing papers in the public sector pays better.

And unless the locals seriously start to increase the number of companies here and allowed access to the local markets , they will end up like Korea with the small number of chaebol dominating everything and being uncompetitive and restrictive.


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## The Rascal (Aug 6, 2014)

twowheelsgood said:


> One only has to look at the demographics here to understand that this is unsustainable as generations of young Emiratis are wanting more than a paperpushing role in the public sector, but the economics of the place work against them.


I hear where you're coming from but it really depends on what you want to start up. We've just inked a JV with AD Gov, the Gov give us the factory (brand new, must be clean & sterile) and we have agreed to employ a number of Emirati Scientists and electrical engineers (yes they do exist). An advantage for us is that the Gov is our biggest customer, we can taylor make to their requirements and we can export so much easier from here as we can in the UK where there is such a thing as export licences needed on virtually an order by order basis.

The Gov know they need to look at Hi-Tech Industries to grow, and we fit their remit, hence they open their chequebooks like you wouldn't believe.


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## A.Abbass (Jun 28, 2014)

The conversation over here is very enlightening.

Anyway I also believe it's not a maturing economy but rather they are being pushed to do so. More money is being pumped outside everyday and less people are willing to invest or/and save here. With the oil prices dropping and the need to diverse economy, change is inevitable.

My guess is they would introduce more benefits for a limited number of professions, allowing them to live independently here without sponsors and thus, being able to work for more than 1 employer, that will allow them to gain more money and circulate it internally. Also they would give longer residence permits periods as stated in the article, not 10 years like Singapore but maybe 5-7 years.

There will be also more benefits to attract entrepreneurs.

I only see locals adhering to a few non diverse professions (paperpushing jobs as twowheels added), and in order for them to find jobs the whole population has to grow, how would more locals serve in police and work in emigration, rera, dewa et al if the influx of expats stop ?


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## Gavtek (Aug 23, 2009)

A.Abbass said:


> I only see locals adhering to a few non diverse professions (paperpushing jobs as twowheels added), and in order for them to find jobs the whole population has to grow, how would more locals serve in police and work in emigration, rera, dewa et al if the influx of expats stop ?


They'd find something else to implement. Last time it happened, it was Emirates ID.


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## twowheelsgood (Feb 21, 2013)

The Rascal said:


> I hear where you're coming from but it really depends on what you want to start up. We've just inked a JV with AD Gov, the Gov give us the factory (brand new, must be clean & sterile) and we have agreed to employ a number of Emirati Scientists and electrical engineers (yes they do exist). An advantage for us is that the Gov is our biggest customer, we can taylor make to their requirements and we can export so much easier from here as we can in the UK where there is such a thing as export licences needed on virtually an order by order basis.
> 
> The Gov know they need to look at Hi-Tech Industries to grow, and we fit their remit, hence they open their chequebooks like you wouldn't believe.


In many ways you have just re-iterated my point. The AD gov is having to pay you to set something up (because they do not know how) on condition that you take on board some locals (who probably wouldn't otherwise get a job in such a company) and then the AD gov is being your client to in effect, ensure their countrymen stay employed.

In effect, you are becoming a 'snowplough parent' to a group of nice individuals who probably couldn't make it without you clearing all the obstructions to them getting a job.

Its a tricky one whichever way you look at it, but unless there is real competition between companies here, with no wasta involved, then there really will never be a Middle East equivalent of Google, Microsoft, Airbus or the like (or even close).

Rabbits are not intelligent because it doesn't take much brains to sneak up on a piece of grass. And unless our hosts businesses start to compete on an even footing with other companies, then they will continue to be just rabbits


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## Fat Bhoy Tim (Feb 28, 2013)

twowheelsgood said:


> In many ways you have just re-iterated my point. The AD gov is having to pay you to set something up (because they do not know how) on condition that you take on board some locals (who probably wouldn't otherwise get a job in such a company) and then the AD gov is being your client to in effect, ensure their countrymen stay employed.
> 
> In effect, you are becoming a 'snowplough parent' to a group of nice individuals who probably couldn't make it without you clearing all the obstructions to them getting a job.
> 
> ...


Partially. 

You're artificially creating the demand but it's often becoming self-sustaining. The government needs what you're offering and would rather have the money stay in the country.

The quality of the personnel is generally not substandard, some of them just have the typically inflated UAE compensation expectations. Given the inflation in the market that all prosperity brings with a finite way to spend it, it's a self-fulfilling problem.

That doesn't however change the fact they'd rather spend their own money internally.


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## The Rascal (Aug 6, 2014)

Whoa, epic post batman!



twowheelsgood said:


> In many ways you have just re-iterated my point. The AD gov is having to pay you to set something up (because they do not know how) on condition that you take on board some locals (who probably wouldn't otherwise get a job in such a company) and then the AD gov is being your client to in effect, ensure their countrymen stay employed.
> 
> In effect, you are becoming a 'snowplough parent' to a group of nice individuals who probably couldn't make it without you clearing all the obstructions to them getting a job.
> 
> ...


Re snowplough, we couldn't get to the level we are without them, so it goes both ways.

I don't really get how the rabbit bit, whilst somewhat amusing, is relevant.



Fat Bhoy Tim said:


> Partially.
> 
> You're artificially creating the demand but it's often becoming self-sustaining. The government needs what you're offering and would rather have the money stay in the country.
> 
> ...


We've not artificially created the demand, we showed a product to the Gov and used our contacts through a combined 35 years of UAE experience (2 of us) to show the right people what they wanted - but couldn't find themselves, this is why experience matters more than qualifications. 

The main benefit to us is that we have easy access to MENA and Asia from here, something we couldn't achieve from the UK.


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## Fat Bhoy Tim (Feb 28, 2013)

The Rascal said:


> We've not artificially created the demand, we showed a product to the Gov and used our contacts through a combined 35 years of UAE experience (2 of us) to show the right people what they wanted - but couldn't find themselves, this is why experience matters more than qualifications.
> 
> The main benefit to us is that we have easy access to MENA and Asia from here, something we couldn't achieve from the UK.


I refer to these sorts of JVs in general, without being specific. 

The reverse example is something like Strata. Develops very advanced parts for aerospace and defence contractors around the world, all out of sleep Al Ain.


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## The Rascal (Aug 6, 2014)

Fat Bhoy Tim said:


> The reverse example is something like Strata. Develops very advanced parts for aerospace and defence contractors around the world, all out of sleep Al Ain.


Our plant will not be dissimilar from Strata (although we manufacture a completely different product and have nothing to do with aerospace) - we know them well.


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## nonoa (Jan 9, 2014)

One of those discussions where everything everyone says has truth yet can be unfairly applied to all situations.

And there's arguments on both sides.

I do get peeved when I read pieces on the first Emiratis to work here or there, or one how a company hired a certain number or locals - mainly because this should be something standard: Hire the person right for the job. 

But countries all over the world raise concerns over foreigners taking over their jobs. Countries in Europe raise a red flag when the expat populations rise to over 3%. The UAE has a foreign population that can eradicate the local population. Providing some support to protect them is quite natural. If you look at the numbers, you will realize that no matter how many locals they hire, it will never be enough to run the country.

We do not have centuries of history, exploration or innovation and we make use of the global resources to learn and develop.

If the position was advertised as temporary - for a contract duration - then it is clearly not a long term stint and both parties should be aware. Those who "remind" you that you are here for one reason and that is to fulfill your contract and leave are just plain rude.

We have "expat" family friends that have been in the UAE longer than I can remember and way before I was born. Their instability pains us. We have also been living in rental homes for 28 years and financial instability was something I was born in.

Then again...I can't tell my family I'm thinking of buying a used car (I can't afford a brand new one and no way am I taking out a loan) cause they'll just poo poo all over anything I pick out cause it most definitely won't be a BMW or Mercedes. I just don't get where that sense of high-end entitlement came from...hahaha


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## The Rascal (Aug 6, 2014)

nonoa said:


> One of those discussions where everything everyone says has truth yet can be unfairly applied to all situations.
> 
> And there's arguments on both sides.
> 
> ...


Great post.


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