# Is there a 3rd party platform/service to pay official bills?



## alpinist (Feb 8, 2009)

Just received a bill from an agency which does not take payments through its website.
The bill can only be paid using one of four collaborating banks, either through their websites if you're an account-holder or, presumably, by walking into a branch with the bill if you're not an account holder.

But if you're not an account-holder and you can't visit a branch (usually only on specific days), you're stuck. Someone must have noticed this and made a website/app to handle it (perhaps for a small fee) but I can't find one through internet searches. 

Any ideas?


----------



## fortrose52 (Nov 29, 2018)

Ask Transferwise now known as Wise


----------



## xicoalc (Apr 20, 2010)

Most bills you can pay with an online transfer. Or, ask your own bank to do it. What sort of bill is it?


----------



## alpinist (Feb 8, 2009)

Ok but I'm actually asking if such a service exists, not how to pay a bill.
I think there must be a small demand for it, even for Spanish people who can't go and queue in a particular bank on Thursdays before midday (that was only day and time my old bank allowed non-clients to pay bills over the counter).

I know a service like this exists for mobile phones, a 3rd party website that allows to you to use any bank card to top up any pay as you go phone anywhere in the world. Quite clever, I thought.

For the curious, the bill is from the ayunto. As an experiment I tried to pay it through the app of a Spanish bank which they do not list as a collaborator and the app rejected the bar code.


----------



## alpinist (Feb 8, 2009)

fortrose52 said:


> Ask Transferwise now known as Wise


Just looked up their services and I think Wise would work for direct debits, but not as an over the counter or bank transfer alternative.


----------



## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

I suppose you could ask a gestor. Most places have a province-level website where you can pay ayuntamiento bills via debit card or transfer - like this one for Cadiz. Pago de Tributos - Sede Electrónica del Servicio Provincial de Recaudación y Gestión Tributaria


----------



## alpinist (Feb 8, 2009)

Thank you Alcalaina, I'm sure that's useful information for many.
But I just checked Castilla y Leon and the site only covers 4 of the 9 regions within the province, and even then payments are still limited to collaborating banks (at least there are ten or so, not just four like with my ayunto).

It seems that unless there's a workaround, this is a system that forces people to stay with the old banks and prevents smaller digital start-ups getting a foothold.


----------



## tardigrade (May 23, 2021)

It is just like paying for your NIE. Get the paperwork and go and pay at a collaborating bank, bring back the receipt to the authorities.

You can still use a start-up - withdraw the cash from the atm at the bank and pay. The bank might accept apple pay or google pay in which I would guess could be linked with your Wise account. Most smaller digital start ups do not have the creed established yet to be included into the mainstream money flow; and perhaps not the insurance assurances of the bigger banks to protect the money


----------



## alpinist (Feb 8, 2009)

tardigrade said:


> It is just like paying for your NIE. Get the paperwork and go and pay at a collaborating bank, bring back the receipt to the authorities.
> You can still use a start-up - withdraw the cash from the atm at the bank and pay. The bank might accept apple pay or google pay in which I would guess could be linked with your Wise account.


Yes, it is just like that, but have you ever experienced the bill payment queue in a Spanish city centre bank? It's already a bad system but it would be completely overloaded if a few thousand people in each town switched to a digital bank and started trying to pay with cash over the counter.
Paying with cash also precludes scanning the bar code at an ATM, which was at least one way to speed things up.

Although I understand your concerns with the digital banks, I feel safe having a Starling account in the UK. No idea how the Spanish ones are regulated - the only one I've heard of is just a subdivision of a major bank anyway.


----------



## stevec2x (Mar 24, 2012)

_Si_ said:


> Just looked up their services and I think Wise would work for direct debits, but not as an over the counter or bank transfer alternative.


Hi
Yes, Wise support direct debits. And from a Wise account, you can transfer money to another account very easily, you just need the appropriate IBAN. They also perform currency conversion with minimal charges and excellent exchange rates.

They can also supply you with a debit card.

I do all of the above.

Cheers
Steve


----------



## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

stevec2x said:


> Hi
> Yes, Wise support direct debits. And from a Wise account, you can transfer money to another account very easily, you just need the appropriate IBAN. They also perform currency conversion with minimal charges and excellent exchange rates.
> 
> They can also supply you with a debit card.
> ...


If you use Wise, can you get an IBAN that starts with ES? Many ayuntamientos won't accept direct debits from IBANs outside Spain.


----------



## stevec2x (Mar 24, 2012)

Alcalaina said:


> If you use Wise, can you get an IBAN that starts with ES? Many ayuntamientos won't accept direct debits from IBANs outside Spain.


Hi Alcalaina
When you create an account denominated in euros with Wise you are given an IBAN in Belgium. 
I don't have any DDs to an ayuntamiento, so I can't really comment there. However, if it's a problem you could simply pay online using the debit card, or an online transfer, both of which are very quick and easy.
I use my Belgian IBAN to pay the electric bill by dd, and pay my taxes online.

When you say that ayuntamientos won't accept IBANs from outside Spain - it's possible that what they really mean is they won't accept a UK IBAN (I'm assuming you are British)?

Cheers
Steve


----------



## tardigrade (May 23, 2021)

stevec2x said:


> When you say that ayuntamientos won't accept IBANs from outside Spain - it's possible that what they really mean is they won't accept a UK IBAN (I'm assuming you are British)?
> 
> Cheers
> Steve


No, it is any IBAN originating from outside of Spain. A few companies-orgs will not even accept a non Spanish debit card online - if I remember correctly - the mobile operators require a spanish bank account for the monthly contract charges.


----------



## xicoalc (Apr 20, 2010)

_Si_ said:


> Ok but I'm actually asking if such a service exists, not how to pay a bill.
> I think there must be a small demand for it, even for Spanish people who can't go and queue in a particular bank on Thursdays before midday (that was only day and time my old bank allowed non-clients to pay bills over the counter).
> 
> I know a service like this exists for mobile phones, a 3rd party website that allows to you to use any bank card to top up any pay as you go phone anywhere in the world. Quite clever, I thought.
> ...


I don't know of such a platform but also don't see a need for one. Most things can be paid at your own bank and these days most things can be charged by the issuing body directly to your account 


Yes, several years ago I remember the days of going to a specified bank at a certain time but these days no. In fact, I don't even go to my bank for much. Every bill goes out automatically and sperodic things I pay by transfer etc


----------



## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

stevec2x said:


> When you say that ayuntamientos won't accept IBANs from outside Spain - it's possible that what they really mean is they won't accept a UK IBAN (I'm assuming you are British)?
> 
> Cheers
> Steve


I mean any IBAN not in Spain. It's a real problem for people with holiday homes here. Sometimes the fees on non-resident accounts are higher than the bills they are there to pay. Some banks in the past have frozen or closed non-resident accounts because the holders weren't here to present the required paperwork when the new money-laundering laws came in, so DDs weren't paid. Some friends in this situation set up an offshore euro account just to pay their bills, but the ayuntamiento wouldn't accept it. Nightmare!


----------



## stevec2x (Mar 24, 2012)

Alcalaina said:


> I mean any IBAN not in Spain. It's a real problem for people with holiday homes here. Sometimes the fees on non-resident accounts are higher than the bills they are there to pay. Some banks in the past have frozen or closed non-resident accounts because the holders weren't here to present the required paperwork when the new money-laundering laws came in, so DDs weren't paid. Some friends in this situation set up an offshore euro account just to pay their bills, but the ayuntamiento wouldn't accept it. Nightmare!


Hi
It's hard to reply when you use phrases like "in the past" and "new".
Also, I'm resident, so I have no experience of non resident.
I struggle to understand why anybody can't just use Wise - either dd or online transfer, or debit card. The recipients just want to be paid in euros, what's the problem?

Cheers
Steve


----------



## tardigrade (May 23, 2021)

I think this is a question for your local or national representative in Brussels or Spanish government official.


----------



## stevec2x (Mar 24, 2012)

_Si_ said:


> Yes, it is just like that, but have you ever experienced the bill payment queue in a Spanish city centre bank? It's already a bad system but it would be completely overloaded if a few thousand people in each town switched to a digital bank and started trying to pay with cash over the counter.
> Paying with cash also precludes scanning the bar code at an ATM, which was at least one way to speed things up.
> 
> Although I understand your concerns with the digital banks, I feel safe having a Starling account in the UK. No idea how the Spanish ones are regulated - the only one I've heard of is just a subdivision of a major bank anyway.


Last I heard is that Starling is useless outside of UK, because it only supports UK IBANs. Do some research about wise


----------



## alpinist (Feb 8, 2009)

Hi Steve. If you haven't experienced this then I get you don't understand it, it's a uniquely Spanish problem in my experience!
So with the type of bill I'm talking about, you cannot pay by simple transfer because they don't include an account number / IBAN. What they give you is simply a payment reference number, sometimes with a bar code, and also an 'alta de domiciliation' form. You can only pay using the reference at banks with which the authority 'collaborate'. I'm my experience, you can only set up a direct debit with one of those banks too but I recognise this may not be the rule (maybe my bank were just being difficult).
In the case of this latest bill, only four banks are on the collaborator list, and the regional authority only recognises a few more. These aren't always big banks either, some huge national banks are excluded e.g. in Castilla y León they rarely collaborate with La Caixa. So if you swap regions, you might be best swapping banks too!

I'm just surprised that no digital entrepreneur has thought to build a platform with access to dozens of banks where I can use my non-collaborating account to easily pay a bill. Clearly it would also be a boon for migrants and second home owners with non-Spanish IBANs as noted above - on that point, I've had it confirmed by DKV Seguros via email that they refuse anything but a Spanish IBAN because their computer system can't handle alternatives.


----------



## alpinist (Feb 8, 2009)

stevec2x said:


> Last I heard is that Starling is useless outside of UK, because it only supports UK IBANs. Do some research about wise


I use my Starling UK IBAN to pay a monthly direct debit with a company in France. Línea Directa also accepted it but say they'll always charge the card first. 
So far, DKV are only one I've tried who refused it.


----------



## tardigrade (May 23, 2021)

Different countries have different rules for banking. 

I pay Companies House with my PayPal account in the UK - I have not seen that option on any other government site in my travels.


----------

