# Renting without NIE?



## hunter33 (Dec 29, 2012)

I want to rent an apartment for up to 12 months with out a NIE. Can it be done? How can I get utilities connected with out an NIE? I was thinking of getting the rent 'increased' to cover utilities. Your advice is greatly appreciated


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

hunter33 said:


> I want to rent an apartment for up to 12 months with out a NIE. Can it be done? How can I get utilities connected with out an NIE? I was thinking of getting the rent 'increased' to cover utilities. Your advice is greatly appreciated


:welcome:

it can be done - although I'm registered as resident with a NIE number my landlord was only interested in my passport - the utilities are in his name but I pay them

more & more though landlords are asking for NIE numbers - & if you're planning to be here any length of time you'll find that you need one for lots of things, so why not get one anyway?

are you Australian?

if so, you probably know that non-EU citizens can only stay up to 90 days at a time in any case 

if you have an EU passport (I know a lot of Aussies who have dual UK/Aus citizenship) then you can stay as long as you like & should register as resident at/after 90 days (you need proof of income & healthcare provision) at which time you'll be issued with a NIE


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

If he's here for a year, then he'll need a residencia to be legal - and this comes with an NIE.

Basically, why bother down that route when, legally, you have to get an NIE anyway?


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

snikpoh said:


> If he's here for a year, then he'll need a residencia to be legal - and this comes with an NIE.
> 
> Basically, why bother down that route when, legally, you have to get an NIE anyway?


that's pretty much where I was coming from

however - I do know some Aussies here who have long term rentals who work on rigs or similar a month on/ a month off

they only ever spend a month at a time here & are never here 182+ days a year so neither need to register as resident nor are they tax resident

they DO have NIE numbers though


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

hunter33 said:


> I want to rent an apartment for up to 12 months with out a NIE.


Why? It is not very costly and enables you to do more than if you don't have one - like open a bank account that doesn't have much in the way of charges, etc


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

baldilocks said:


> Why? It is not very costly and enables you to do more than if you don't have one - like open a bank account that doesn't have much in the way of charges, etc


thats what i was thinking,


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

baldilocks said:


> Why? It is not very costly and enables you to do more than if you don't have one - like open a bank account that doesn't have much in the way of charges, etc





cambio said:


> thats what i was thinking,



a NIE number won't make any difference - you'd need a resident registration certificate/card to open a residents account - that's the only way you'll get lower bank charges


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

xabiachica said:


> a NIE number won't make any difference - you'd need a resident registration certificate/card to open a residents account - that's the only way you'll get lower bank charges


Sorry, been away for a week enjoying ourselves, brain not quite back in gear yet.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

baldilocks said:


> Sorry, been away for a week enjoying ourselves, brain not quite back in gear yet.


hmmm - I'll let you off


this time


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

i'm still confused. IF he OP wants to rent then surely he will need an NIE, or if here over the state time residency.. I was wondering why you would want to rent without an NIE and what benefit that would have?


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

cambio said:


> i'm still confused. IF he OP wants to rent then surely he will need an NIE, or if here over the state time residency.. I was wondering why you would want to rent without an NIE and what benefit that would have?


you're right - he will need a NIE for something eventually - although as I said, he might still be able to rent without one


I can't understand what would be the point of _not _getting one :confused2:


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

xabiachica said:


> you're right - he will need a NIE for something eventually - although as I said, he might still be able to rent without one
> 
> 
> I can't understand what would be the point of _not _getting one :confused2:


woohooo after so many months I was right LOL usually I have got it back to front and upside down.

Yes i agree whats the point of not getting one very strange

hope you all had a good xmas -- i know off topic:focus:


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

One can't help wondering if, by trying to avoid getting an NIE, the OP wants to stay 'under the radar' and maybe act illegally or, if not entirely so, to be on that side of the fence, in either case, it is the forum policy not to assist but to actively discourage.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

baldilocks said:


> One can't help wondering if, by trying to avoid getting an NIE, the OP wants to stay 'under the radar' and maybe act illegally or, if not entirely so, to be on that side of the fence, in either case, it is the forum policy not to assist but to actively discourage.


yes, it does make you wonder....... & yes, in fact we'd go further than to 'actively discourage' - we'd spell it out that it was illegal & close the thread


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## rach3429 (Jan 22, 2012)

Hi, I have NIE but bf doesn't and we both on rental contract with no problem.
I think it depends on the landlord as to how fussy they are but... To be honest, most landlords do not register for rental income so it's neither here nor there if you have NIE or not coz it's of no use.
They don't register for rental income because if they do, they pay high taxes and then even when the property is empty, they still have to pay, so most can't afford to pay when house is empty obviously so most don't declare.

Passport should suffice


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

rach3429 said:


> Hi, I have NIE but bf doesn't and we both on rental contract with no problem.
> I think it depends on the landlord as to how fussy they are but... To be honest, most landlords do not register for rental income so it's neither here nor there if you have NIE or not coz it's of no use.
> They don't register for rental income because if they do, they pay high taxes and then even when the property is empty, they still have to pay, so most can't afford to pay when house is empty obviously so most don't declare.
> 
> Passport should suffice


yes a lot of landlords don't declare that's true


but they have to pay tax when it's empty even if they _don't _declare that they rent it out


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

rach3429 said:


> Hi, I have NIE but bf doesn't and we both on rental contract with no problem.
> I think it depends on the landlord as to how fussy they are but... To be honest, most landlords do not register for rental income so it's neither here nor there if you have NIE or not coz it's of no use.
> They don't register for rental income because if they do, they pay high taxes and then even when the property is empty, they still have to pay, so most can't afford to pay when house is empty obviously so most don't declare.
> 
> Passport should suffice


The reason the landlord requires NIE numbers is;
In case things go wrong - they can then take legal action against the tenant
To change utility bills either into their name or to set up DD from their accounts.
As a landlord, I for one would not do a long-term let to someone who was not 'legally' in the country.


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## jago25_98 (Nov 26, 2008)

Just found this thread. 

I too really want to avoid the NIE. The reason for this is that I have been chased by 3 governmental tax systems at one time for taxes I didn't owe. This is something many people on this forum may not fully understand. Had I not had the support of a large corporation behind me it would have ruined me. I want the least interaction with these places as possible. As soon as you register for anything in a new country you're no longer a tourist and you start to get treated as such. I'm committed to this. 
This is not really my ideal choice - I would much prefer to buy one of these €20-50k houses. But the Spanish government are doing a lot of things to prevent people like me from settling down in Spain against a bleak economic outlook. This is a common self reenforcing cycle that happens in downturns - governments do the exact opposite of what is needed until destruction. I would like to buy a property and live normally but I can see how people are being taxed and regulated so this keeps us investors away. Thus I am planning this way to be mobile with little paperwork to tie me here. If things go safe in 5-10 years time _then_ I can register for a tax number and settle down. 

I have decided to continue using hotels and short term rentals, which are in contravention of the new <3month ban but that is the landlord's risk not mine. I also pay the premium to rent cars too.

While I am happy with living out of a suitcase I need somewhere longterm to store my things if I want to come back. So I want storage long term. Indefinitely really - not because I want to stay here but because I just don't want the hassle of knowing I'll have a bill to pay each month for the privilege. This is not only because I don't like ongoing bills but also small storage areas are available for purchase at €6,000 or less. Can I lease or rent these for 99 years? Is there another way I can find somewhere to store some things at a rate close to that longterm? I can risk <€6,000. 

Up until now I've had to give things to friends and bury stuff in the woods. I need something a bit more secure!! I need to know my things are safe and my space is not just going to disappear one day. 
There must be logistics companies who can hold stock for companies in this way?


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

jago25_98 said:


> Just found this thread.
> 
> I too really want to avoid the NIE. The reason for this is that I have been chased by 3 governmental tax systems at one time for taxes I didn't owe. This is something many people on this forum may not fully understand. Had I not had the support of a large corporation behind me it would have ruined me. I want the least interaction with these places as possible. As soon as you register for anything in a new country you're no longer a tourist and you start to get treated as such. I'm committed to this.
> This is not really my ideal choice - I would much prefer to buy one of these €20-50k houses. But the Spanish government are doing a lot of things to prevent people like me from settling down in Spain against a bleak economic outlook. This is a common self reenforcing cycle that happens in downturns - governments do the exact opposite of what is needed until destruction. I would like to buy a property and live normally but I can see how people are being taxed and regulated so this keeps us investors away. Thus I am planning this way to be mobile with little paperwork to tie me here. If things go safe in 5-10 years time _then_ I can register for a tax number and settle down.
> ...


you're not tax resident unless you're here for 183+ days in a calendar year Jan 1st to Dec 31st - just having a NIE doesn't make you tax resident

even registering as resident if you're here 90 consecutive days doesn't make you tax resident

if you don't own property here, don't support a family here, if you're in & out of the country & you are here less than the 183+ days, just keep proof of travel, and IF questions were ever asked you could prove that you aren't tax resident


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