# Questions about staying in Germany as a citizen



## Denny_H

*Hello people,
I'm a 16 year old who came to live in Germany in 2019, I have came under the "family reunion visa" and I have been going to school since that same year.
And I'm curious in case if I don't manage to succeed my "Hauptschulabschluss" will I be allowed to stay in the country? And if yes under which circumstances?
This has been going through my head and I'm not going to lie it's been scaring me ever since.
Thank you for all the answers and help you will provide, it really means a lot.*


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## *Sunshine*

Are you German citizen? Or a foreigner? 

The title of your thread is about "staying as a citizen", while in your post you say you arrived with a family reunification permit. 

If you are a foreign minor who came to Germany as a dependent child, your permit will normally be renewed as a dependent until you are 18. What happens after you turn 18 depends on many factors.


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## Denny_H

*Sunshine* said:


> Are you German citizen? Or a foreigner?
> 
> The title of your thread is about "staying as a citizen", while in your post you say you arrived with a family reunification permit.
> 
> If you are a foreign minor who came to Germany as a dependent child, your permit will normally be renewed as a dependent until you are 18. What happens after you turn 18 depends on many factors.


I'm a citizen as we have the Aufenthaltstitel.
Could you tell me what those other factors are? 
Thank you!


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## Nononymous

Aufenhaltstitel is a residence permit - it most definitely is not citizenship (that would be Staatsbürgerschaft).


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## Denny_H

Nononymous said:


> Aufenhaltstitel is a residence permit - it most definitely is not citizenship (that would be Staatsbürgerschaft).


Oh, okay.
I wasn't sure about those two but I know that we have the Aufenhaltsstitel as we got it renewed like 2 weeks ago. 
We should be getting the citizenship in about 2 years, and I'm curious will I be able to get that If I don't manage to succeed in my class this year.


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## Nononymous

Denny_H said:


> Oh, okay.
> I wasn't sure about those two but I know that we have the Aufenhaltsstitel as we got it renewed like 2 weeks ago.
> We should be getting the citizenship in about 2 years, and I'm curious will I be able to get that If I don't manage to succeed in my class this year.


I have no idea as to that, but has someone actually asked at the Ausländerbehörde or spoken to a lawyer? Is your familiy's Aufenhaltstitel for a limited period of time, or indefinite?


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## *Sunshine*

Denny_H said:


> Could you tell me what those other factors are?


Not unless you provide more info. There are different rules for different situations. 

If you only arrived in 2019, I don't see how you'd be eligible for citizenship in 2 years anyway.

On the other hand, what type of future do you see for yourself as a high school dropout in Germany? You really need to concentrate on finishing your Hauptschulabschluss and then find an apprenticeship.


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## Nononymous

I was thinking this also. German citizenship without Hauptschulabschluss isn't worth much, unless it's your life's goal to work in the family Würstchenbude or Dönerladen.


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## Denny_H

*Sunshine* said:


> Not unless you provide more info. There are different rules for different situations.
> 
> If you only arrived in 2019, I don't see how you'd be eligible for citizenship in 2 years anyway.
> 
> On the other hand, what type of future do you see for yourself as a high school dropout in Germany? You really need to concentrate on finishing your Hauptschulabschluss and then find an apprenticeship.





Nononymous said:


> I was thinking this also. German citizenship without Hauptschulabschluss isn't worth much, unless it's your life's goal to work in the family Würstchenbude or Dönerladen.


Well I have a family friend who teached me how to work on stock market and I already made some serious money, and my friend has started his own company and we will split the ownership as soon as I am 18.


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## Denny_H

*Sunshine* said:


> Not unless you provide more info. There are different rules for different situations.
> 
> If you only arrived in 2019, I don't see how you'd be eligible for citizenship in 2 years anyway.
> 
> On the other hand, what type of future do you see for yourself as a high school dropout in Germany? You really need to concentrate on finishing your Hauptschulabschluss and then find an apprenticeship.


What more info would you like me to provide sir?


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## *Sunshine*

Denny_H said:


> Well I have a family friend who teached me how to work on stock market and I already made some serious money, and my friend has started his own company and we will split the ownership as soon as I am 18.


Dropping out of high school to play the stock market is not a path to German citizenship. 



Denny_H said:


> What more info would you like me to provide sir?


What citizenship do you have? What type of permit does your parent have (regular worker, Blue Card, etc)?


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## Denny_H

*Sunshine* said:


> Dropping out of high school to play the stock market is not a path to German citizenship.
> 
> Well I'm not trying to drop out but I was never good at school especially not in Biologie, Ethik and WTH because I was never interested in school, I always found it to be really boring and never teaching me something I will actually need
> 
> 
> What citizenship do you have? What type of permit does your parent have (regular worker, Blue Card, etc)?


I have the Aufenhaltsstitel and my mother has the blue card valid until 2023/2024 (I'm not exactly sure is it 2023 or 2024 but it is one of those years) and the last time we were in Ausländerbehörde they said her next "stage" will be permanent residency, and both me and my sister will get it based off of her


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## *Sunshine*

Due to her Blue Card, your mother will be eligible next year for permanent residency. However, you and your sister are only eligible in 2024 (after 5 years residence).

As long as you are a minor (and do not have a criminal record), you'll be able to renew your temporary dependent permit without a problem. However, by the time you are eligible for a permanent permit, you'll already be an adult and being a high school drop out playing the stock market will not cut it.

You really need to concentrate on finishing high school and then finding an apprenticeship.


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## Denny_H

*Sunshine* said:


> Due to her Blue Card, your mother will be eligible next year for permanent residency. However, you and your sister are only eligible in 2024 (after 5 years residence).
> 
> As long as you are a minor (and do not have a criminal record), you'll be able to renew your temporary dependent permit without a problem. However, by the time you are eligible for a permanent permit, you'll already be an adult and being a high school drop out playing the stock market will not cut it.
> 
> You really need to concentrate on finishing high school and then finding an apprenticeship.


Just to get things straight,
I will try to finish high school, but in case I fail, I am allowed to stay in Germany?
Oh and as soon as I get the German citizenship I will move to another EU country (Croatia) as I love the sea and it's much nicer in winter (I hate the cold here) and it's cheaper to live there hahaha


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## ALKB

Denny_H said:


> Just to get things straight,
> I will try to finish high school, but in case I fail, I am allowed to stay in Germany?
> Oh and as soon as I get the German citizenship I will move to another EU country (Croatia) as I love the sea and it's much nicer in winter (I hate the cold here) and it's cheaper to live there hahaha


Until you turn 18 you should be fine as a dependent of your mother. After that it gets more dicey.

Have you ever looked at the naturalization ('Einbürgerung', this is what you have to apply for to become a German citizen) requirements? One needs eight years of continuous legal residence in Germany (unless you are married to a German citizen) among other things:









Einbürgerung


Wenn Sie dauerhaft in Deutschland leben, aber nicht die deutsche Staatsangehörigkeit besitzen, können Sie sich einbürgern lassen. Dafür müssen Sie bestimmte Voraussetzungen erfüllen.




www.bmi.bund.de





Has anybody ever paid tax in Germany on that serious money you made?


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## ALKB

Denny_H said:


> I have the Aufenhaltsstitel and my mother has the blue card valid until 2023/2024 (I'm not exactly sure is it 2023 or 2024 but it is one of those years) and the last time we were in Ausländerbehörde they said her next "stage" will be permanent residency, and both me and my sister will get it based off of her


Permanent residency is also not citizenship, it's just a residence permit that has no time limit (but automatically becomes invalid once you leave Germany for more than six months at a stretch and don't negotiate with the Ausländerbehörde that it can stay valid). 

Citizenship is acquired by application for naturalization. I hear that the Einbürgerungsämter have a huge Covid backlog with no appointments even for a first advisory meeting available for a long time. In most cases you will also have to renounce your existing nationality and that can take a long time depending on how quick your home country is in such matters. My husband's naturalization took about one and a half years from the first advisory meeting to getting his naturalization certificate and German passport and that was at a time when we didn't even need an appointment for any of that, we could just turn up and wait to be seen. A big chunk of time was waiting for his renunciation from his home country.


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## Denny_H

ALKB said:


> Until you turn 18 you should be fine as a dependent of your mother. After that it gets more dicey.
> 
> Have you ever looked at the naturalization ('Einbürgerung', this is what you have to apply for to become a German citizen) requirements? One needs eight years of continuous legal residence in
> Germany (unless you are married to a German citizen) among other things:
> 
> Yes sir, I have. And it left me a little bit confused as It seems like I do not have to have my Hauptschulabschluss if I take the Naturalization test.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Einbürgerung
> 
> 
> Wenn Sie dauerhaft in Deutschland leben, aber nicht die deutsche Staatsangehörigkeit besitzen, können Sie sich einbürgern lassen. Dafür müssen Sie bestimmte Voraussetzungen erfüllen.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.bmi.bund.de
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Has anybody ever paid tax in Germany on that serious money you made?


No, as I can't legally have an account on any trading platform my friend did all the trading for me (I can't interact with that money till I am 18 years old) and all that money is on his account so when I am finally 18 that money will be sent to my account and it will be automatically taxed like everything else. So basically all that money is just sitting in an investing account and only my friend who is the current owner of the account can access it.


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## Nononymous

My advice to you:

1. Do some reading and learn the basics of how German residence permits and citizenship work. You appear to be ignorant of the most basic concepts of immigration law. That's okay, it's not something that 16-year-olds typically care about, but in this case your future does quite literally depend on it.

2. Stay in school at least to the point where you can pursue an apprenticeship. Nobody expects you to finish Gymnasium and go to university, but at least pick up a skill that can earn money. Nobody gave you a definitive answer to the question of whether dropping out will automatically make it impossible for you to stay in Germany, but I think it's safe to say that lack of educational qualifications is not going to help.

3. Best of luck collecting that money from your friend when you turn 18! I wouldn't be making any firm plans about what to spend it on just yet. (Regarding taxes, Google "Uli Hoeneß" for a chuckle.)


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## Denny_H

Nononymous said:


> My advice to you:
> 
> 1. Do some reading and learn the basics of how German residence permits and citizenship work. You appear to be ignorant of the most basic concepts of immigration law. That's okay, it's not something that 16-year-olds typically care about, but in this case your future does quite literally depend on it.
> 
> 2. Stay in school at least to the point where you can pursue an apprenticeship. Nobody expects you to finish Gymnasium and go to university, but at least pick up a skill that can earn money. Nobody gave you a definitive answer to the question of whether dropping out will automatically make it impossible for you to stay in Germany, but I think it's safe to say that lack of educational qualifications is not going to help.
> 
> 3. Best of luck collecting that money from your friend when you turn 18! I wouldn't be making any firm plans about what to spend it on just yet. (Regarding taxes, Google "Uli Hoeneß" for a chuckle.)


I heard about his tax evasion, and I never understood why would someone do something that stupid... No one likes taxes but if you avoid them you will get caught that's basic logic...
I won't spend the money on stupid stuff, as I will reinvest it, I won't move the money on my bank account, I will move it onto my trading account, as I don't want to spend it on stuff to flex on people... (I hate that) I'm a big car enthusiast so I might get myself a nice car and that would be it, I will definitely do more research as this forum has cleared up stuff that I have been kind of unsure about, and I will start the process of moving to another country (Croatia), because I find that land so beautiful and there is almost no snow by the sea side (Thank god, I'm one of those people that hate snow from the bottom of their heart and I hate the cold). And I would like to once again thank everybody for helping and answering my questions, when I asked on other places I was just shooed away because I'm 16... And I have found a place where I can do Ausbildung as an electrician without the Hauptschulabschluss (I only need good notes in Maths and Physics) and I'm pretty good in both of those


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