# autonomos



## anthomo16 (Feb 20, 2013)

Hello, please can anyone advise what are the minimum number of hours you can work to be an autonomo.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

anthomo16 said:


> Hello, please can anyone advise what are the minimum number of hours you can work to be an autonomo.


It doesn't depend on hours, it depends on earnings. You pay a fixed rate to be an autonomo every month. In my case it's around 260€. On top of that I pay 21% tax (IRPF), much of which I get back as my yearly earnings don't come in to that bracket, but I have to pay it in the first place. It's barely worth my while and am thinking about going on contract. I'm an English teacher


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## markieboy (Feb 21, 2013)

*Hours?*



anthomo16 said:


> Hello, please can anyone advise what are the minimum number of hours you can work to be an autonomo.


As Pesky Wesky says, its not hours. As far as I know, there is no particular criteria for becoming Autonomo (apart from being a resident). You pay a minimum of about €275 a month for your social security, which entitles you to a SIP card. You pay the tax man 20% of the profit you make, and you pay the difference in IVA between your inputs and outputs.

Please note, the tax calculations are much more difficult if your business buys goods and services from outside of Spain & and sells them within Spain.


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

markieboy said:


> As Pesky Wesky says, its not hours. As far as I know, there is no particular criteria for becoming Autonomo (apart from being a resident). You pay a minimum of about €275 a month for your social security, which entitles you to a SIP card. You pay the tax man 20% of the profit you make, and you pay the difference in IVA between your inputs and outputs.
> 
> Please note, the tax calculations are much more difficult if your business buys goods and services from outside of Spain & and sells them within Spain.


The amount you pay is age dependent - a friend of ours gets a 30% (or so) reduction on this as she is about 30 years old.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

snikpoh said:


> The amount you pay is age dependent - a friend of ours gets a 30% (or so) reduction on this as she is about 30 years old.


yes that's right, but only for the forst 2 years iirc


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## andy84 (Feb 20, 2013)

Hi all

Myself and my girlfriend are planning on moving to Madrid (or possibly Sevilla, we haven't decided yet!) for a year in September to teach English. Our plan was to get a job sorted before coming out but I just wanted to investigate becoming an autonomo first.

Pesky you say that you have to pay the fixed rate to be an autonomo and then pay 21% tax on top, but you get much of that back. Please could I ask what the threshold is on this tax? To claim the taxes back, do you just submit the tax returns at the end of the tax year and then receive the money back in one lump sum? 

Cheers,

Andy


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

andy84 said:


> Hi all
> 
> Myself and my girlfriend are planning on moving to Madrid (or possibly Sevilla, we haven't decided yet!) for a year in September to teach English. Our plan was to get a job sorted before coming out but I just wanted to investigate becoming an autonomo first.
> 
> ...


I'm not sure what the threshold is. I'll try to find out. I get it back in a lump sum.
TBH, I wouldn't recommend being self employed as an English teacher. It doesn't make much sense financially. For me it's been a great experience professionally and a learning curve personally. I've concentrated on in company teaching, so I've had to adapt to the clients needs completely and teach in lots of ways that I'd have thought impossible if I'd stayed where I was before.
But I'm lucky in that I've got a husband who (up till now) was earning more. Now, due to the crisis, wage freezes and a reduction in timetable he's not, and we're feeling the pinch! I'm thinking of going back to an academy next academic year (IH, British Council or similar) as at least you get paid holidays! Also, it would be good to have the stimulus of being with other teachers. Also, I'm a lot closer to retiring than you and have made my living teaching. Perhaps you have other plans...
I don't know what others would tell you. Would be interesting to hear.


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## andy84 (Feb 20, 2013)

Pesky Wesky said:


> I'm not sure what the threshold is. I'll try to find out. I get it back in a lump sum.
> TBH, I wouldn't recommend being self employed as an English teacher. It doesn't make much sense financially. For me it's been a great experience professionally and a learning curve personally. I've concentrated on in company teaching, so I've had to adapt to the clients needs completely and teach in lots of ways that I'd have thought impossible if I'd stayed where I was before.
> But I'm lucky in that I've got a husband who (up till now) was earning more. Now, due to the crisis, wage freezes and a reduction in timetable he's not, and we're feeling the pinch! I'm thinking of going back to an academy next academic year (IH, British Council or similar) as at least you get paid holidays! Also, it would be good to have the stimulus of being with other teachers. Also, I'm a lot closer to retiring than you and have made my living teaching. Perhaps you have other plans...
> I don't know what others would tell you. Would be interesting to hear.


Thanks for getting back to me about this. I've found a website called Advoco which is quite good for breaking down the autonomo stuff. I think I will probably go with your advice and try to get a contract somewhere. I can always supplement my income with a few private classes on the side. If I'm getting a lot of private classes I could always go down the autonomo later on, although I'm no sure if that will be worth the bother if I'm only in Spain for a year.

Thanks again and good luck with returning to academy work.


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## goingtobcn (Sep 9, 2012)

I'm a self employed English teacher here in BCN, and will write more about my experiences when I'm back from my weekend away.

Andy84, I also found Advoco very helpful 

General question - presumably, one *should* become autonomo to do extra classes on the side to supplement income? Surely nobody does though if they're already paying SS through a contracted job?!


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

goingtobcn said:


> I'm a self employed English teacher here in BCN, and will write more about my experiences when I'm back from my weekend away.
> 
> Andy84, I also found Advoco very helpful
> 
> General question - presumably, one *should* become autonomo to do extra classes on the side to supplement income? Surely nobody does though if they're already paying SS through a contracted job?!


Good, will look forward to your reply and yes, of course you should be an autonomo if you do extra classes and most people don't because the rules are just so silly. If a different system were in place, more people would sign up to it


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## andy84 (Feb 20, 2013)

Thanks for your replies folks.

I've read that you can earn up to €1500 per year without declaring it if you're already paying your taxes with a regular job. I know it's not a lot but it enables you to take a few hours private teaching a week on the side (and I can't see how anyone would know if you went a little over the limit). If I've got this wrong though, please let me know!

The autonomo system seems like a really bad deal for a teacher. It looks like it would be hard to maintain a decent cash flow because it's as if you're paying tax twice (SS monthly and tax quarterly). Like you advised Pesky, you get some back at the end of the year but this doesn't help with your monthly bills. It appears the autonomo system works out a lot better if you have a larger income and lots of overheads.

goingtobcn: It would be great to read about how you're getting on!


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## goingtobcn (Sep 9, 2012)

OK, back in BCN after a weekend away and here are my experiences so far of being a private English teacher (autonomo):

Advantages:
- Being my own boss: I can take time off when I want, cancel a class if I need to etc.
- Students are keen to learn. Before this, I taught in a school in central London with a lot of "rich kids" whose parents sent them to London to learn English. Some of them really made the most of the chance, but there were a fair few who had no interest and made the teachers' lives difficult. Now, all my students are learning for themselves - work, exam, personal satisfaction.
- Not following course books/courses prescribed by the school gives me more freedom and forces me to look for/create materials as I don't have access to all the books the school had.
- Teaching at students' houses/offices rather than in cramped, smelly classrooms.
- Travelling around BCN = seeing different areas, exercise (usually in the sunshine!)
- I'm getting experience that I wouldn't get from a school e.g. creating and maintaining website, dealing with finances (although I do have an accountant)

Disadvantages:
- Seguridad Social payments! The fixed amount is really bad for quieter months.
- No pay if a student is sick/on holiday/I want a holiday. (Interested to see what will happen over the summer!)
- Also an advantage above, but I do miss some of the resources!
- Having to travel around means I have to leave time between lessons and so it takes me longer to teach the same number of hours - if I was in a school, I wouldn't "waste" time on travelling.

I hope that makes sense - pretty tired! To sum up, I like being autonomo because of the freedom and independence. However, if I'd come here on my own, or my husband was also a teacher/autonomo (he gets paid a monthly salary which isn't huge but provides security), I'd have looked for work in a school. I also wouldn't want to be doing this without decent experience in a school first.


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## goingtobcn (Sep 9, 2012)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Good, will look forward to your reply and yes, of course you should be an autonomo if you do extra classes and most people don't because the rules are just so silly. If a different system were in place, more people would sign up to it


I agree - I see so many ads for English teachers charging less than me, and I bet most of them aren't autonomo so probably take home more than me! I'm not in this to make loads of money, but it's frustrating.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

goingtobcn said:


> I agree - I see so many ads for English teachers charging less than me, and I bet most of them aren't autonomo so probably take home more than me! I'm not in this to make loads of money, but it's frustrating.


there's an _academy _here charging less an hour than I do!

I don't know how many students they get (I have around 70 ) - but I can't see how they can survive with their rent etc., though I probably spend as much in coffee & brekkies a month in the bar where I do my group classes, as I would on renting a small office

they also want a year upfront & I bet their groups are of a size that no-one gets much opportunity to actually _speak - _& I know for sure that they get a lot drop out - they mostly end up with me!!

maybe that's what I'm doing wrong - take the money upfront, let the students drop out & then I don't have to work for it!!!


I can't see that lasting so very long tbh


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

goingtobcn said:


> OK, back in BCN after a weekend away and here are my experiences so far of being a private English teacher (autonomo):
> 
> Advantages:
> - Being my own boss: I can take time off when I want, cancel a class if I need to etc. (to a certain extent. I'd like to work 9 - 5, but that's impossible. Stds want classes when they're not working/ at school so the main blocks I work are 7:30 - 10:00, 14:00 - 16:00 and 18:00 - 19:00. Then I have fill up the gaps as best I can. After a worrying start this academic year I have 3 mornings a week a 10:00 - 14:00 class, but that's not very usual. Also over Christmas I picked up an class of 3 hours a day for a month for someone going to the UK to work. I actually like doing bits and pieces, but it's not something to rely on for a healthy income)
> ...


Have to get ready for class! Didn't go to the early morning class today as I've hurt my back and driving was very painful yesterday. The first class I've missed in years. And I feel great having slept well!
Will look at the disadvantages later.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Just got up from the computer and got a phone call to say class cancelled due to illness. And this class is paid no matter what!! It's a Skype class I got through the academy I used to have (it was a co operative) and it's not so highly paid, but the class is always paid, so that's the advantage, and there are a LOT of cancelations...
So disadvantages


goingtobcn said:


> Disadvantages:
> - Seguridad Social payments! The fixed amount is really bad for quieter months.( I go off autonomo in July and August. One company has a few classes, but they pay me in September. The worst for me are December and January and March or April whenever Easter is)
> - No pay if a student is sick/on holiday/I want a holiday. (Interested to see what will happen over the summer!)(see above for the summer. What about when the students go on holiday or are off sick? Today I have 4 hours with the student that cancelled. Thank goodness it's paid! I give companies a set of conditions when I start classes with them, and one condition is that if the class is cancelled in less than 24 hours they have to pay. That is more or less ok, but I have another condition about how much they can cancel in a month and that's difficult to enforce and would probably lose classes if I did)
> - Also an advantage above, but I do miss some of the resources!(Yes, me too. Buying stuff is expensive although supposedly you can get it back, but I never claim. There are good resources on the net, but there is an awful ot of crap too. I also miss the company of other teachers, someone to bounce ideas off, give and take materials from. I have found some teacher training seminars recently on Cambridge. I'll put the link on the teaching English thread later on)
> ...


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## goingtobcn (Sep 9, 2012)

Xabiachica - let us know how that academy turns out!!

PW, great to read your comments.
I certainly agree about the gaps in schedule, although I like them up to a certain point as they sometimes mean I can come home in the middle of the day for lunch/to sort out housework/go swimming etc. I'm definitely finding it harder to fill the remaining gaps in my schedule as most people want lessons after they finish work - say about 18-20h and I now have classes each day at that time. I don't mind finishing then as it means I get home about the same time as the husband.

I only do a couple of classes in companies, and the students want to learn for themselves. Having said that, one is quite a difficult student as he's never learnt a language before!

I always meet students in a cafe for a consultation before going to their houses, and wouldn't go if I didn't feel completely comfortable. I never do lessons at home, but do my planning and admin in the spare room.

I definitely miss the company of other teachers - bouncing ideas around, and learning from others. I also miss the CPD at my last workplace, but am hopefully going to some workshops at a school here soon. Will look out for the Cambridge seminars link too 

The travel for me isn't a problem because most of my students live relatively close to our flat, and those who live further away are a pleasant metro ride/walk. In London, I was commuting just over an hour each way on one of the busiest lines/at one of the busiest stations and I'd take this any day!

It is difficult with sickness - a few weeks ago I had a bad week money wise as I was ill and then some of my students were too, so was quite a few classes down.

You can certainly claim back for books etc, but if a student wants to work from a book, I ask them to buy it. May need to buy a teacher's book for an IELTS course soon, but it'll be a one off expense.

I'm thinking of coming off autonomo for a month or two in the summer, but will see. 

In summary, both working privately as a teacher and working for a school/academy have a lot of advantages and disadvantages. This is my mini project for the 2 years we're here - after that, I don't know where we'll be and what the opportunities will be, but I'm enjoying this while I can


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