# Permanent Residency



## tebo53 (Sep 18, 2014)

Hi, 

At the end of September I will have live in Spain (legally) for 5 years and will qualify to become a "Permanent" resident. 

Do I need to do anything or get anything else in place before that date. I already have my Passport, residencia, Padron, NIE & SIP and Spanish bank account. H

Do I need to apply for any other documentation or will the dates on my green credit card size residencia suffice? 

I know Brexit might change things in the future but I can't see that happening by end September 2019.

Thanks, 

Steve


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

You "should" change your green cert to an updated one which will state "permanent resident since XXXXX".

This is in theory an easy process as you "should" not need to prove income / healthcare again, but you do have to fill out the EX18 and pay the fee.

In reality, I would like to think that the distinctions made by the Spanish authorities between permanent and non-permanent residents in post Brexit land would be made based on whether the resident has been more than 5 years registered, rather than on having completed this trivial process, but you never know...


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

Overandout said:


> You "should" change your green cert to an updated one which will state "permanent resident since XXXXX".
> 
> This is in theory an easy process as you "should" not need to prove income / healthcare again, but you do have to fill out the EX18 and pay the fee.


I wouldn't say "should" but "can".

You can change it if you wish but there is absolutely no need to. Some like to do it for "peace of mind". 

However, some extranjeria insist it's a new application and insist on proving income, health care (and won't accept SIP card) etc.


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

snikpoh said:


> I wouldn't say "should" but "can".


You are right. It is not obligatory. 

But given what might happen with Brexit and the apparent different treatment of "permanent" residents to "non-permanent", I think it is wise to advise people to do it.

At least it might save the OP the process of demonstrating the 5 year continuous residency. 
I'd rather be on the list, than off the list with the right to be on it!


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Overandout said:


> You are right. It is not obligatory.
> 
> But given what might happen with Brexit and the apparent different treatment of "permanent" residents to "non-permanent", I think it is wise to advise people to do it.
> 
> ...



We're still trying to get an appt to get our 'permanent' cards - but there are never any available  

We can easily prove that we've been here far longer than 5 years, but we don't really want to have to when we shouldn't have to.


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

xabiaxica said:


> We're still trying to get an appt to get our 'permanent' cards - but there are never any available
> 
> We can easily prove that we've been here far longer than 5 years, but we don't really want to have to when we shouldn't have to.


I would just show my last 13 years worth of tax returns


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

snikpoh said:


> I would just show my last 13 years worth of tax returns


yep - those, school stuff, medical stuff etc. 

A card would be simpler though.


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## tebo53 (Sep 18, 2014)

snikpoh said:


> I would just show my last 13 years worth of tax returns


I asked my solicitor about this subject and they said I would need to supply:
1. Application form.
2. Original Passport plus photocopy. 
3. Passport size photo.
4. Padron "Historico" certificate. 
5. Original SIP card plus photocopy. 
6. 2 years Spanish bank statements plus a letter from the bank to certify you have an account with 
that bank.

Some of that list seems a little over the top. I might not bother in the end!!


Steve.


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

tebo53 said:


> I asked my solicitor about this subject and they said I would need to supply:
> 1. Application form.
> 2. Original Passport plus photocopy.
> 3. Passport size photo.
> ...


When my husband and I got our permanent resident certificates in 2014, we just had to supply (1), (2) and the original resident certificate which has to be handed back, plus the Modelo 790 form stamped by the bank to show payment had been made. However, that was of course at a different extranjeria from where you would be applying.

At the time, having heard stories about people being asked for all kinds of other things, I did print off and take with us a copy of the actual requirements as stated on the Spanish Government website (see below) but didn't need to refer to it.

http://www.interior.gob.es/web/serv...ion-europea/residencia-de-caracter-permanente


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

tebo53 said:


> I asked my solicitor about this subject and they said I would need to supply:
> 1. Application form.
> 2. Original Passport plus photocopy.
> 3. Passport size photo.
> ...


There is no photo on the permanent resident certificate which is why it can't be used for identification so I'm not sure why a photo is asked for.


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## Williams2 (Sep 15, 2013)

Pesky Wesky said:


> There is no photo on the permanent resident certificate which is why it can't be used for identification so I'm not sure why a photo is asked for.


They attach it to the application form for their files.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Williams2 said:


> They attach it to the application form for their files.


Well, it's not asked for in the official website...I appreciate that if it's asked for it may be difficult to argue your case, but I would do as Lynn advised before - print out the requirements and take it with you


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## The Skipper (Nov 26, 2014)

tebo53 said:


> Hi,
> 
> At the end of September I will have live in Spain (legally) for 5 years and will qualify to become a "Permanent" resident.
> 
> ...


The British Consulate in Alicante, my financial advisor and the accountant who handles my tax returns each advised that it would be worthwhile applying for permanent residency even though, as an EU citizen, I was already classified as such. When I attended my appointment at Alcoy police station I was told that I was applying for something that I already had. However, when I explained the advice I had been given, she printed out the new document stating that I was a permanent resident. She even went on to process my wife's application even though she accompanied me without an appointment. I have since read that the Spanish government has published advice on how it will deal with British residents after Brexit. Those with a residency document saying "permanent" will automatically be given a TIE with no questions asked; those with five years or more residency who do not have a document saying "permanent" may be asked to show some evidence that they have lived permanently in Spain for more than five years. That should not prove too difficult but i am happier in the knowledge that my wife and I will not have to even think about it.


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## Juan C (Sep 4, 2017)

The advice from the lawyer just shows how useless some are 

As for what WILL happen after Brexit, if that happens, is unknown. Everything which has been said/promised will rely on a deal or a decision after Brexit 

The advice from the police who process applications is that one does not need to renew the green paper. After five years one automatically assumes permanent status. There is no need or requirement to replace the piece of paper. 

Of course that paper only applies to EU Citizens.

Non EU nationals do need to renew their resistencia periodically.


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

Pesky Wesky said:


> There is no photo on the permanent resident certificate which is why it can't be used for identification so I'm not sure why a photo is asked for.


And a photograph is not on the list of things needed to register as a resident in the first place with the EX18, so I cannot see why a lawyer is saying that one is needed to change the original registration certificate to a permanent one.

Estancia y residencia - Ministerio del Interior


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## Juan C (Sep 4, 2017)

Lynn. As I said ‘The advice from the lawyer just shows how useless some of them are’


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

I've been here as resident with green paper for eleven years. I have no intention of wasting time at our local police station over something that won't affect me. If I travel outside Spain I'll take passport and green paper just in case.

Just what 'benefits' do I get from being here since 2008 and therefore permanent not available to those who've just got residencia...?


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## Juan C (Sep 4, 2017)

Mrypg9 

“Just what 'benefits' do I get from being here since 2008 and therefore permanent not available to those who've just got residencia...?”



I am a little confused. 

You have the green paper so you are an EU national. You have been here over five years so you have permanent resident status. You do not need to do anything at present 

Residencia is an ID plasticised card which bears a photo and a fingerprint. It is proof of residence for non EU nationals, nothing to do with EU nationals 

If Brexit happens then probably UK Nationals will need RESIDENCIA as they will be non EU nationals but at present no one knows what will be required We must wait and see


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

Juan C said:


> Mrypg9
> 
> “Just what 'benefits' do I get from being here since 2008 and therefore permanent not available to those who've just got residencia...?”
> 
> ...



She is asking (as I often do) what benefit is there in being a 'permanent' resident as opposed to someone who's only just arrived? Some say that permanent residents can get free state health care - I have yet to see this happen in practice.

As you know, many (wrongly) call the green card/paper a residencia - many do not understand the difference (@MRYPG9 does).


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## Juan C (Sep 4, 2017)

The answer maybe found here 

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/euro...nationals-permanent-residence/indexamp_en.htm


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## tebo53 (Sep 18, 2014)

Thanks everyone for the advice so far although a little confusing. I'm sure that after Brexit we won't be asked to leave so I also wonder what we might gain from the hassle of becoming "Permanent"

Steve


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## Juan C (Sep 4, 2017)

tebo53 said:


> Thanks everyone for the advice so far although a little confusing. I'm sure that after Brexit we won't be asked to leave so I also wonder what we might gain from the hassle of becoming "Permanent"
> 
> Steve


As has been explained, if you live in spain you must register. Having done so one does not do anything (hassle) to become permanent. Under the present legislation it is automatic after five years


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

snikpoh said:


> She is asking (as I often do) what benefit is there in being a 'permanent' resident as opposed to someone who's only just arrived? Some say that permanent residents can get free state health care - I have yet to see this happen in practice.
> 
> As you know, many (wrongly) call the green card/paper a residencia - many do not understand the difference (@MRYPG9 does).





tebo53 said:


> Thanks everyone for the advice so far although a little confusing. I'm sure that after Brexit we won't be asked to leave so I also wonder what we might gain from the hassle of becoming "Permanent"
> 
> Steve


I contacted our lawyer as we have been here five years in April

This was her response 




> I will be glad to assist you to get your permanent residency cards.
> 
> We need to provide to the Government all the relevant documentation once again.
> 
> ...


Now, my lawyer is VERY good and we have used her in our five years many times for different issues and never had duff information from her. I have sent her the link as on her which differs from what she has said , I’m waiting for a response 

This has actually changed since we first registers as none of our bank details had to be translated. So I will wait to what she says before I go down this route. 

As has been stated on official web sites post Brexit no deal or deal we should just transfer to the TIE system if here for five years plus. I’m not going to pay out money unnecessarily if I do not have to


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## Juan C (Sep 4, 2017)

Megamum. I do not want to appear argumentative, but i can assure you from personal discussions with the Officer in Charge of an extranjería that the following is correct 


“As has been explained, if you live in spain you must register. Having done so one does not do anything (hassle) to become permanent. Under the present legislation it is automatic after five years”

Your lawyer is not a government official charged with issuing documentation required by the State, so whilst you have not had reason previously to understand she may have been in error, she most certainly is with regard to this. In passing several of the documents listed in your lawyer’s letter, are also not required. 

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/residency-requirements-in-spain

As you will see, the U.K. Gov explain that one ‘can’ (that is can choose to or not, thus not a requirement) apply for a new ‘green paper’ after five years and it will bear the word ‘ permanente’. One can of course ‘choose’ to apply for a new green paper should they wish to do so but that would entail the needless hassle referred to by Tebo.

My green paper does include that word as I replaced it nine years ago when I notified my intention to stop using my U.K. passport as my legal ID, having decided from then on to use my Irish passport as my ID. Had I not done that I would still be legally using my original green A4 paper and be permanent, albeit the word ‘permanente’ would not be on the paper


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

Juan C said:


> Megamum. I do not want to appear argumentative, but i can assure you from personal discussions with the Officer in Charge of an extranjería that the following is correct
> 
> 
> “As has been explained, if you live in spain you must register. Having done so one does not do anything (hassle) to become permanent. Under the present legislation it is automatic after five years”
> ...


Not sure what you are saying. As I clearly stated I’ve sent her the official link ans am waiting for her response and as I know her very well I’m sure she’ll contact the correct office. HOWEVER, as you know just because your personal discussions resulted in what your are saying and I’m not disputing it’s correctness there’s very little continuity among all these offices in Spain. If I went to my local office and said Juan said Miguel in his office said I dont need these documents 
, I’m pretty sure I’d get a very Spanish shoulder shrug and sent on my merry way  Again, I’m only going to change it if it’s financially viable to do so I’m aware that I’m automatically permanent here as it stands now BUT it begs the question why the official Spanish sites “what to do in the event on Brexit deal or no deal “ do make a distinction between those with permanent on their cards and those that don’t


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## tebo53 (Sep 18, 2014)

The list of paperwork required from my post #08 and #23 are very similar bearing in mind they are from two different solicitors. The list seems a little over the top when proof can come direct from their own Spanish government departments like the tax office etc. 

Steve


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## Love Karma (Oct 10, 2018)

snikpoh said:


> As you know, many (wrongly) call the green card/paper a residencia - many do not understand the difference (@MRYPG9 does).


Well what is this green card/paper then if its not "Residencia"? It even says "Residente comunitario en Espana on it. 

http://www.asesoriagutierrez.com/brexit-and-residence-in-spain/


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Love Karma said:


> Well what is this green card/paper then if its not "Residencia"? It even says "Residente comunitario en Espana on it.
> 
> Brexit and residence in Spain - Asesoria Gutierrez


I have my certificate ('cos that's what it is) in front of me.
It says
*ESPAÑA*

CERTIFICADO DE REGISTRO DE CIUDADANO DE LA UNION

Which = Certificate of registration by citizen of the Union.


It then goes on to say "... que ha solicitado y obtenido* su inscripción en el Registro Central de Extranjeros de La Dirección General de la Policia y de la Guardia Civil* como residente comunitario..."


= ...has requested and obtained registration on the Central Register of Foreigners..."


* All underlining and use of bold as in the original, red used by me


It's a certificate of registration by a foreign resident in Spain


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## Juan C (Sep 4, 2017)

A Residencia is a plasticised card, bearing a photo and a fingerprint which non EU nationals are require to have to be able to live in Spain. Until April 2007, EU national were required to have one. It was a legal ID. Since then EU nationals have the certificada De Registro de Ciudadano De La Unión, which is not legal ID. Since April 2007, EU national cannot have a Residencia even if, as many do, they would prefer that.

In April 2007 when first issued the certifícate of registration was an A4 size piece of green paper. Later it was issued as a credit card size piece of green paper. It is often wrongly, and confusingly, referred to as a ‘Residencia or a Residencia card.`


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

Love Karma said:


> Well what is this green card/paper then if its not "Residencia"? It even says "Residente comunitario en Espana on it.
> 
> Brexit and residence in Spain - Asesoria Gutierrez


Mine doesn't say that. 

Mine is exactly as described by @Pesky Wesky


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

snikpoh said:


> Mine doesn't say that.
> 
> Mine is exactly as described by @Pesky Wesky


No, mine does say "como residente comunitario en España" on it (in fact it says como residente comunitario con carácter permanente en España), but that doesn't mean I have a "residencia" It means I have a certificate which states that I am a member of the EU living permanently in Spain and that I have registered this fact with the authorities.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Love Karma said:


> Well what is this green card/paper then if its not "Residencia"? It even says "Residente comunitario en Espana on it.
> 
> http://www.asesoriagutierrez.com/brexit-and-residence-in-spain/


 This is a lawyers firm, not an official website. The official website is what needs to be referred to. The link has already been given.
These solicitors/ lawyers unfortunately have not checked up on the real requirements. It's true that occasionally neither have the officials who process this paperwork, but if needed, the info is there.
I should also point out that whilst the translation of the site from Spanish is good, it's not perfect and I think that is a sign of not doing things as thoroughly as they could have...


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## Love Karma (Oct 10, 2018)

Ah gotcha so the Green card or A4 is not Residencia. I wrongly assumed that as I had the original Card with finger print and photo and was known as the Residencia card that when It was replaced by the green A4 document that this was my "Residencia". But still confused as to why the Spanish GOV website refer to it as "*Residencia *de carácter permanente. 

Residencia de carácter permanente - Ministerio del Interior


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## Love Karma (Oct 10, 2018)

snikpoh said:


> Mine doesn't say that.
> 
> Mine is exactly as described by @Pesky Wesky


I am very surprised that yours as you say doesn't have that on it.....be interesting to know if its just you. Example attached of both A4 CERT and newer Card size where it quiteclearly says what I quoted.


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## Juan C (Sep 4, 2017)

In checking out Love Kara's post I came upon the Spanish Governments page which shows after 5 years ( if you have had the green card for five years ) one becomes permanent and one does not need to do anything, renew, replace etc.

Residencia de carácter permanente - Ministerio del Interior

Extract: 

Residencia de carácter permanente

*Son titulares del derecho a residir con carácter permanente* los ciudadanos de un Estado miembro de la Unión Europea o de un Estado parte en el Acuerdo sobre el Espacio Económico Europeo, y los miembros de la familia que no sean nacionales de uno de dichos Estados, que hayan residido legalmente en España durante un período continuado de cinco años.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Juan C said:


> In checking out Love Kara's post I came upon the Spanish Governments page which shows after 5 years one becomes permanent and one does not need to do anything, renew, replace etc.
> 
> 
> Residencia de carácter permanente - Ministerio del Interior
> ...


 You have to fulfill the requirements set out in that page, do the following, 


> *CERTIFICADO DE RESIDENCIA PERMANENTE DE CIUDADANO DE LA UNIÓN EUROPEA*
> El interesado, personalmente, deberá dirigirse a la Oficina de Extranjería de la provincia donde tenga su residencia o, en su defecto, a la Comisaría de Policía correspondiente. Junto con el modelo de solicitud (EX-18), presentará en todos los supuestos los siguientes *documentos* (original y copia):
> 
> 
> ...


which is also outlined on that page and then,* after that*, at this point in time ie* pre Brexit* you don't need to do anything else.


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

Love Karma said:


> I am very surprised that yours as you say doesn't have that on it.....be interesting to know if its just you. Example attached of both A4 CERT and newer Card size where it quiteclearly says what I quoted.
> 
> View attachment 90330
> 
> ...


Mine doesn’t say that either mine was issued in 2014. We only got the card, the policía National kept the larger piece of paper 

This is not mine but exactly the same apart from details


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## Love Karma (Oct 10, 2018)

Megsmum said:


> Mine doesn’t say that either mine was issued in 2014. We only got the card, the policía National kept the larger piece of paper
> 
> This is not mine but exactly the same apart from details


It *does* say it on your example and says it quite clearly in exactly the same place as my attached example with the phrase highlighted.


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

Love Karma said:


> I am very surprised that yours as you say doesn't have that on it.....be interesting to know if its just you. Example attached of both A4 CERT and newer Card size where it quiteclearly says what I quoted.
> 
> View attachment 90330
> 
> ...





Love Karma said:


> It *does* say it on your example and says it quite clearly in exactly the same place as my attached example with the phrase highlighted.


I was referring to this.

Mine doesn’t say permanent or residencia it’s says I am a resident of Spain since 2014


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## Love Karma (Oct 10, 2018)

Megsmum said:


> I was referring to this.


Referring to what?


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## Love Karma (Oct 10, 2018)

Megsmum said:


> I was referring to this.
> 
> Mine doesn’t say permanent or residencia it’s says I am a resident of Spain since 2014


Exactly thats what I said was on mine, the phrase *" Residente comunitario en Espana" *in post #27. Snikpoh in post #30 said his did not have that phrase. I posted my example with the relevant phrase highlighted. You then posted saying yours didn't have the phrase post #37 either yet attached your example with the exact phrase I quoted on it. Simply that phrase, nothing else such as permanent was mentioned.


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## Love Karma (Oct 10, 2018)

Pesky Wesky said:


> This is a lawyers firm, not an official website. The official website is what needs to be referred to. The link has already been given.
> These solicitors/ lawyers unfortunately have not checked up on the real requirements. It's true that occasionally neither have the officials who process this paperwork, but if needed, the info is there.
> I should also point out that whilst the translation of the site from Spanish is good, it's not perfect and I think that is a sign of not doing things as thoroughly as they could have...


Yes I agree it is a very often used argument that a lawyers firm and such like the translations do vary and its always best to go by an official website. The official Spanish Gov website below uses the words "Residencia" in the detailed process that ends up with the person getting the green credit card sized certificate, so thats good enough for me.

http://www.interior.gob.es/web/serv...ion-europea/residencia-de-caracter-permanente


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

Apologies I was getting my posts crossed should have quoted the other post not yours


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