# Probably a redundant question...



## Kimbella (Jul 4, 2013)

My husband and I are both in our early 40's. I'm originally from the US (California), and immigrated to New Zealand a few years ago (my husband is a born and bred kiwi). Although I love New Zealand, I've found that I miss, more than I expected, the Mexican heritage that was a constant thread throughout California, as well as the delicious warm and stable weather! However, I do *not* miss the intrusiveness of the government, nor the aggression of the culture. I do, though, miss the warmth of personality. 
My husband had never had any sort of exposure to any Latin cultures, except for Gloria on Modern Family. When I arrived and started whipping up Mexican inspired foods, and blasting "world" music, showed him pics of different Mexican cities, and the architecture (my favorite!) he basically fell in love with the idea of moving to Mexico in our later years. I loved the idea, because it involves a reintroduction to all the things I loved about California heritage, without the American government, or pedantic, "assertive" American culture. A potential move is something we want to explore now, in case we need to pave the path for a 5-10 year plan.

I scrolled through the threads to see if I could find specifics on requirements to immigrate, and either they are buried, or labeled in a way that I don't recognize, but I couldn't seem to find anything. I went to the Mexican immigration website, but am not fluent in Spanish...

We have immediately accessible funds of about $100k, and will have monthly funds through trusts of about $2kUSD, and $1200NZD ... 

So, my questions are thus:

First and obviously, is this, generally speaking, enough to live a decent middle class lifestyle in Mexico? Are there areas that are more desirable, that perhaps have a higher cost of living, but are "easier" for ex-pats to assimilate into the fabric of the community? 
Does Mexico require work as an income, or does ongoing, stable income of any source meet criteria? Will we be able to obtain permanent residency, and if not, what is the maximum Visa length allowed, and are there restrictions... I can't fathom the idea of staying for only 6 months, then returning to NZ for another 6 months, etc.
Are there official resources available in English, online somewhere, where I can do further research--and the information will be accurate?
Are there questions that need to be asked, that I don't know to ask because I'm just starting out?

Any feedback is appreciated, any pointing in the right direction, etc... mainly right now I'm wanting to find out specifics on what is required for an American and New Zealand citizen to move to Mexico, preferably permanently!

Thanks in advance, and sorry if all these answers are posted somewhere easy and obvious!


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

Kimbella said:


> My husband and I are both in our early 40's. I'm originally from the US (California), and immigrated to New Zealand a few years ago (my husband is a born and bred kiwi). Although I love New Zealand, I've found that I miss, more than I expected, the Mexican heritage that was a constant thread throughout California, as well as the delicious warm and stable weather! However, I do *not* miss the intrusiveness of the government, nor the aggression of the culture. I do, though, miss the warmth of personality.
> My husband had never had any sort of exposure to any Latin cultures, except for Gloria on Modern Family. When I arrived and started whipping up Mexican inspired foods, and blasting "world" music, showed him pics of different Mexican cities, and the architecture (my favorite!) he basically fell in love with the idea of moving to Mexico in our later years. I loved the idea, because it involves a reintroduction to all the things I loved about California heritage, without the American government, or pedantic, "assertive" American culture. A potential move is something we want to explore now, in case we need to pave the path for a 5-10 year plan.
> 
> I scrolled through the threads to see if I could find specifics on requirements to immigrate, and either they are buried, or labeled in a way that I don't recognize, but I couldn't seem to find anything. I went to the Mexican immigration website, but am not fluent in Spanish...
> ...


Your income sounds like it is below the limit for visa qualification. You would each need around $2000 usd. However, it should be adequate to live comfortably depending on your life style. To stay in Mexico on a 180 day tourist visa you would have to leave every 180 days, but only for day or less absence. And you would not have to go to NZ, just to the US or Guatemala or Belize.

You should discuss the visa requirements with a Mexican consulate/embassy in your home country, in this case NZ. As a US citizen, normally you would talk to a Mex consulate in the US. I do not know if you can do it in NZ. In any event, the visa process has to start at a Mexican consulate outside of Mexico. So talk to them and see if you can qualify. 

I believe an option might be for one you to qualify for a visa, then the second one apply as a spouse, but I don't know the details.


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## lagoloo (Apr 12, 2011)

For a lot of general, useful information, consult
My Life in Mexico

Also, don't let those stars in your eyes get in the way of becoming aware that there are lots of topes (large, car scraping bumps) on the roads in Mexico. Different than say, California, but difficult to negotiate, too.


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## RVGRINGO (May 16, 2007)

I agree that, if your accounts are structured appropriately, one of you (probably the Kiwi) should qualify for a Residente Temporal visa, good for a year and renewable for three more, and then one becomes Residente Permanente with no further financial proofs.
Meanwhile, once the first person is approved for Residente Temporal, you may accompany him as a tourist on an FMM Visitante permit. Once he completes the visa process and has his card, you may apply for equal status, at INM in Mexico, under Vincula Familial rules. Problem solved! I suggest this process just in case there is a delay and the 180 day FMM were to expire. As a US citizen, you could zip out and back with a fresh one.
Plan to buy your vehicle in Mexico, since in 4 quick years you will become permanent residents and will not be able to drive a non-Mexican plated vehicle.
Meanwhile, here is a video to make his decision process a bit easier: https://www.youtube....h?v=qF5l9EAvdTw


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

Kimbella, I appreciate your enthusiasm for my adopted country, but you haven't mentioned if you spent any time here before moving to New Zealand. You realize, of course, that life in Mexico is an awful lot different than life in California, however "Mexico-flavored" the latter may be. And while you express a dislike for the "intrusiveness" of the US government (not quite sure what you mean by that), Mexico has a government too, which at times seems invisible, at times all too present.


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## lagoloo (Apr 12, 2011)

Exactly. The first thing you learn is that, unlike CA, the equivalent of the "highway patrol" is not necessarily going to be your friend.
Another disconcerting discovery is that, unlike CA, you are not going to get a 26 page "disclosure" if you decide to purchase property. You are on your own and it's buyer beware. Many of us can tell some colorful horror stories along those lines which are humorous only in retrospect after your emotional and financial recovery is complete.
You also discover that "zoning" is a joke. Your neighbor can open an auto body repair and paint shop next door.
A musical "evento" place can drive you up the walls with banda music until all hours.
And finally, the Spanish language, particularly in its slang, is challenging. Better start right now on that one.
Buen Suerte.


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

RVGRINGO said:


> I agree that, if your accounts are structured appropriately, one of you (probably the Kiwi) should qualify for a Residente Temporal visa, good for a year and renewable for three more, and then one becomes Residente Permanente with no further financial proofs.
> Meanwhile, once the first person is approved for Residente Temporal, you may accompany him as a tourist on an FMM Visitante permit. Once he completes the visa process and has his card, you may apply for equal status, at INM in Mexico, under Vincula Familial rules. Problem solved! I suggest this process just in case there is a delay and the 180 day FMM were to expire. As a US citizen, you could zip out and back with a fresh one.
> Plan to buy your vehicle in Mexico, since in 4 quick years you will become permanent residents and will not be able to drive a non-Mexican plated vehicle.
> Meanwhile, here is a video to make his decision process a bit easier: https://www.youtube....h?v=qF5l9EAvdTw


I agree, except that it sounds like the US income is more likely to be sufficient to qualify for a Residencial Temporal visa.


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## RVGRINGO (May 16, 2007)

True, and the reason that I mentioned the need to structure accounts in a way to meet the qualifications. They would probably have to do that; no matter which one qualifies first. Of course, if the consulate demands retirement income from a company or a government, they may have to be even more creative, possibly even remaining as tourists and doing the 180 day exit-return dance.


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## ojosazules11 (Nov 3, 2013)

RVGRINGO said:


> I agree that, if your accounts are structured appropriately, one of you (probably the Kiwi) should qualify for a Residente Temporal visa, good for a year and renewable for three more, and then one becomes Residente Permanente with no further financial proofs.
> Meanwhile, once the first person is approved for Residente Temporal, you may accompany him as a tourist on an FMM Visitante permit. Once he completes the visa process and has his card, you may apply for equal status, at INM in Mexico, under Vincula Familial rules. Problem solved! I suggest this process just in case there is a delay and the 180 day FMM were to expire. As a US citizen, you could zip out and back with a fresh one.
> Plan to buy your vehicle in Mexico, since in 4 quick years you will become permanent residents and will not be able to drive a non-Mexican plated vehicle.
> Meanwhile, here is a video to make his decision process a bit easier: https://www.youtube....h?v=qF5l9EAvdTw


I was interested in watching the video, but can't get the link to open. Suggestions?


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## TommyD8 (Jun 14, 2013)

lagoloo said:


> For a lot of general, useful information, consult
> My Life in Mexico
> 
> .


Thanks for that link, both interesting and informative..


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## RVGRINGO (May 16, 2007)

If the video link does not open with a simple click, open it in a new tab or new window. On a Mac, simply hold down Control when you click on the link and a box with that option will appear. You other poor folks suffering with that other PC Windows stuff may have to right click. We Mac users never have had to have a mouse with two buttons....very strange! 
Come to think of it, I have not used a mouse in over a decade. I also have no idea why this trackpad even works; Luddite that I am.


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## Kimbella (Jul 4, 2013)

TundraGreen said:


> Your income sounds like it is below the limit for visa qualification. You would each need around $2000 usd. However, it should be adequate to live comfortably depending on your life style. To stay in Mexico on a 180 day tourist visa you would have to leave every 180 days, but only for day or less absence. And you would not have to go to NZ, just to the US or Guatemala or Belize.
> 
> You should discuss the visa requirements with a Mexican consulate/embassy in your home country, in this case NZ. As a US citizen, normally you would talk to a Mex consulate in the US. I do not know if you can do it in NZ. In any event, the visa process has to start at a Mexican consulate outside of Mexico. So talk to them and see if you can qualify.
> 
> I believe an option might be for one you to qualify for a visa, then the second one apply as a spouse, but I don't know the details.


Ok, so each person separately needs an income of $2k, so for a couple, a minimum of $4k is required in order to obtain a visa allowing for formal and permanent residence of both parties? Just wanted to make sure I understood that piece!


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## ojosazules11 (Nov 3, 2013)

RVGRINGO said:


> If the video link does not open with a simple click, open it in a new tab or new window. On a Mac, simply hold down Control when you click on the link and a box with that option will appear. You other poor folks suffering with that other PC Windows stuff may have to right click. We Mac users never have had to have a mouse with two buttons....very strange!
> Come to think of it, I have not used a mouse in over a decade. I also have no idea why this trackpad even works; Luddite that I am.


I'm using an iPhone. I click on the link, a new page opens, but it never gets past the "loading" message. If I were to search for the video directly on YouTube, what keywords should I use?


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

Kimbella said:


> Ok, so each person separately needs an income of $2k, so for a couple, a minimum of $4k is required in order to obtain a visa allowing for formal and permanent residence of both parties? Just wanted to make sure I understood that piece!


There are two kinds of resident visas you can receive: temporary and permanent. The income of $2000 per person is for the first kind.


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## Kimbella (Jul 4, 2013)

Thank you all for the replies and info, it's nice to have a starting point--and a few of you have provided some very specific (and what I'll assume to be accurate) information! I'll be digging thought it all!

I have to say though, I was really put off by tone of moderator, Isla Verde. There was a really patronizing quality to your comment, making it clear that you are an Alpha here. : ( Why the need for that? 
When someone adopts the possessive, "my" when discussing something that belongs to no one, I have to wonder the intent ... 
I'm not moving in 6 months or even a year, as my post stated, it's something that's being explored as a potential move--years in the future--I think that phrase was pretty specific in my OP. Yes, I've traveled to Mexico while living in the US, but never lived there (and why would that matter anyway?), only vacationed. I don't know how to interpret your comment... were you suggesting that if I'd never even visited I shouldn't explore the possibilities of living there?

As an 'already ex-pat' in a different culture and hemisphere, I'm well aware that foreign countries are nothing like 'home' (the US) ... I assumed fellow ex-pats would deduce that I already know and understand that ... 
My point about California was that having lived with there with thread of Mexican heritage that runs through it, I'm not unfamiliar with the culture. In fact, I don't think it would be an exaggeration to say I'm likely to actually understand it more than I do kiwi culture here. 

Honestly, as a moderator, your post didn't answer a single question, or offer any direction at all--it simply deflated the idea by posing "questions" to answers I didn't provide:
1) have you spent time here?
2) you know Mexico isn't California, right?
3) what's your issue with government/s?

Disappointing.


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## Kimbella (Jul 4, 2013)

lagoloo said:


> For a lot of general, useful information, consult
> My Life in Mexico
> 
> Also, don't let those stars in your eyes get in the way of becoming aware that there are lots of topes (large, car scraping bumps) on the roads in Mexico. Different than say, California, but difficult to negotiate, too.


Appreciate the heads up, for sure, but I'm currently living in Christchurch, NZ which was just about fully toppled over by a couple of big quakes in 2010, and 2011, plus about 10k aftershocks over the 2 years since ... all of our underground infrastructure was decimated (as were the roads and footpaths), so the roads are either all torn up from sewage works, or from earthquake damage (and awaiting repairs), or were repaired, then re-damaged by more quakes... it's a local gag that the one big group making lots of money, indirectly, from th eq's are the auto repair shops (tyres, alignments, etc)!


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## Kimbella (Jul 4, 2013)

TundraGreen said:


> Your income sounds like it is below the limit for visa qualification. You would each need around $2000 usd. However, it should be adequate to live comfortably depending on your life style. To stay in Mexico on a 180 day tourist visa you would have to leave every 180 days, but only for day or less absence. And you would not have to go to NZ, just to the US or Guatemala or Belize.
> 
> You should discuss the visa requirements with a Mexican consulate/embassy in your home country, in this case NZ. As a US citizen, normally you would talk to a Mex consulate in the US. I do not know if you can do it in NZ. In any event, the visa process has to start at a Mexican consulate outside of Mexico. So talk to them and see if you can qualify.
> 
> I believe an option might be for one you to qualify for a visa, then the second one apply as a spouse, but I don't know the details.


This is great information, thank you! The 180 day tourist Visa was the one I wondered about. In NZ, once your tourist Visa has expired, you have to remain out of the country for as long as the Visa was approved for--so, for a 9 month Visa, you have to remain outside the country for 9 months before you can apply again. I'm understanding what you wrote to mean that at some point when our 180 days draws near, we leave to somewhere outside of Mexico and reapply? I know you can't give specifics, but is there a "general" time-frame for how long the approval process is?

I will look into more details with the authorities here...by the time it comes to move, I will have NZ citizenship as well ... 

cheers!


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## Kimbella (Jul 4, 2013)

lagoloo said:


> Exactly. The first thing you learn is that, unlike CA, the equivalent of the "highway patrol" is not necessarily going to be your friend.
> Another disconcerting discovery is that, unlike CA, you are not going to get a 26 page "disclosure" if you decide to purchase property. You are on your own and it's buyer beware. Many of us can tell some colorful horror stories along those lines which are humorous only in retrospect after your emotional and financial recovery is complete.
> You also discover that "zoning" is a joke. Your neighbor can open an auto body repair and paint shop next door.
> A musical "evento" place can drive you up the walls with banda music until all hours.
> ...


Thanks for the heads up, although I'm not in California any more, so my experience is wider ranging thanks to the frequent natural disasters here in Christchurch! 
Police here are fine, so dealing with some that are rude or corrupt will be new... however, the caveat emptor for home sales won't be all that unusual ... following the earthquakes, it has become common for people here to hide damage, and/or insurance payouts(without doing the repairs), then onsell their homes to unsuspecting buyers ... The house purchase industry is also unlike the US. The agent acts on behalf of the seller, and buyers do not use any--they have to do their own research, etc...
Zoning isn't as unregulated as it is in Mexico, but in many respects it's definitely heaps more "hands off" than the US ... people operate businesses out of their homes as a matter of culture here ... even the MD and dental offices are smack dab in the middle of the neighborhood..
I have some decent receptive Spanish language skills, but am not very expressively conversant. My husband is already looking into purchasing language programs so we can study! Even if we don't wind up moving, there's no harm in knowing another language.

Thanks for the info, every little bit helps our exploration!


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## lagoloo (Apr 12, 2011)

May I suggest "Visual Link Spanish" as a good learning program. It has the audio, so you learn the pronunciation as well. It's also fun, with the frequent tests in which, as you fail, the ship sinks. lol. You enter the name of the program on the web. There are several levels.


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## BirthAbroad (May 18, 2014)

Many longstanding expats here recommend that if possible, you visit a place that you would like to live before making the actual move. Moving to Mexico without visiting her can be like dating her online just to find out she is really a man in person. As someone that lives in Northern Mexico, it is amazing how incredibly different the US is from Mexico, just on either side of the border. I think a few expats here are just trying to caution you that, truthfully enough, in California you can get a taste of Mexico's flavor and culture without having to engross yourself in its problems as a developing country.


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

BirthAbroad said:


> Many longstanding expats here recommend that if possible, you visit a place that you would like to live before making the actual move. Moving to Mexico without visiting her can be like dating her online just to find out she is really a man in person. As someone that lives in Northern Mexico, it is amazing how incredibly different the US is from Mexico, just on either side of the border. I think a few expats here are just trying to caution you that, truthfully enough, in California you can get a taste of Mexico's flavor and culture without having to engross yourself in its problems as a developing country.


Thanks for your perceptive comment!


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## Kimbella (Jul 4, 2013)

BirthAbroad said:


> Many longstanding expats here recommend that if possible, you visit a place that you would like to live before making the actual move. Moving to Mexico without visiting her can be like dating her online just to find out she is really a man in person. As someone that lives in Northern Mexico, it is amazing how incredibly different the US is from Mexico, just on either side of the border. I think a few expats here are just trying to caution you that, truthfully enough, in California you can get a taste of Mexico's flavor and culture without having to engross yourself in its problems as a developing country.


I can appreciate that, but I do stand by my feeling that the one reply was completely unwarranted, considering all I was doing was asking for a few questions to be answered, or a direction to head in to get my own questions answered. I wasn't asking for a comparison of CA and Mexico, nor an assessment of our moving plans, I was simply asking for more info, so we could do some research to see it it could work for us ... 
As for your ending comment, if Mexico is such a challenge (for some, most, all?), what keeps people there? It can't simply be that everyone is an economic refugee?


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## Kimbella (Jul 4, 2013)

lagoloo said:


> May I suggest "Visual Link Spanish" as a good learning program. It has the audio, so you learn the pronunciation as well. It's also fun, with the frequent tests in which, as you fail, the ship sinks. lol. You enter the name of the program on the web. There are several levels.


Thank you very much for the suggestion! I'm pretty keen on getting something going, if for no other reason that to hear my kiwi husband speaking Spanish with his accent!


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## ojosazules11 (Nov 3, 2013)

Kimbella said:


> This is great information, thank you! The 180 day tourist Visa was the one I wondered about. In NZ, once your tourist Visa has expired, you have to remain out of the country for as long as the Visa was approved for--so, for a 9 month Visa, you have to remain outside the country for 9 months before you can apply again. I'm understanding what you wrote to mean that at some point when our 180 days draws near, we leave to somewhere outside of Mexico and reapply? I know you can't give specifics, but is there a "general" time-frame for how long the approval process is?
> 
> I will look into more details with the authorities here...by the time it comes to move, I will have NZ citizenship as well ...
> 
> cheers!


What is being referred to as a "visa" is actually a tourist card or permit, the FMM (Forma Migratoria Multiple para Extranjeros). You don't need to apply for it, you receive it when entering the country. If you enter by air, it is free (apparently cost included in the price of the airline ticket). I haven't entered by land for years, but I've read that when entering by land there is a cost. Others on this forum will know more about that than I do. 

There is not a requirement to remain out of the country for a stipulated number of days, as long as you have left prior to the previous 180 day permit expiring. You basically can leave one day and come back the next for another 180 days. Of course, as with any border the immigration official could decide against letting you in, but I haven't heard of that happening. You also want to hold on to that piece of paper they give you (the FMM), as it is proof of your legal entry into the country. 

Many people travel to the US for the 180 day leaving and re-entry. I personally would keep my eye out for sales on flights to Guatemala City (direct round trip flights Mexico City to Guatemala City on Interjet were recently under $250), enjoy a few days in that beautiful country, then fly back to Mexico and get another 180 day permit on entry at the airport.

Good luck and enjoy your exploring/planning phase.


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## BirthAbroad (May 18, 2014)

Kimbella said:


> I can appreciate that, but I do stand by my feeling that the one reply was completely unwarranted, considering all I was doing was asking for a few questions to be answered, or a direction to head in to get my own questions answered. I wasn't asking for a comparison of CA and Mexico, nor an assessment of our moving plans, I was simply asking for more info, so we could do some research to see it it could work for us ...
> As for your ending comment, if Mexico is such a challenge (for some, most, all?), what keeps people there? It can't simply be that everyone is an economic refugee?


If you go down the forum a little bit, you can find a post about a man who moved to Mexico for 6 days because his wife had a change of mind about moving here. Moving internationally is a huge investment in itself, as for my ending comment, you should be more concerned about looking into why people leave Mexico than why they stay there. What we don't want is for you to naively purchase land in Mexico and wind up moving back out. You already know all the reasons you want to move here, we just want you to be aware of reasons you may NOT want to move here. Although I cannot speak for Isla's intentions in her post and nor do I wish to digress there, most of us are simPly trying to prepare you for every facet of your potential move, including the realities of living here. I do not think anyone here is trying to demotivated you, even some of the people giving you financial advice have given other expats the same advice Isla and I did. Enjoy your preparations, hopefully you can make it down here and most importantly, be happy. Mexico's a beautiful country as you already know, we want you to enjoy it to its fullest without being totally put off by a failure to meet expectations.


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## regwill (Jul 2, 2013)

ojosazules11 said:


> What is being referred to as a "visa" is actually a tourist card or permit, the FMM (Forma Migratoria Multiple para Extranjeros). You don't need to apply for it, you receive it when entering the country. If you enter by air, it is free (apparently cost included in the price of the airline ticket). I haven't entered by land for years, but I've read that when entering by land there is a cost. Others on this forum will know more about that than I do.
> 
> There is not a requirement to remain out of the country for a stipulated number of days, as long as you have left prior to the previous 180 day permit expiring. You basically can leave one day and come back the next for another 180 days. Of course, as with any border the immigration official could decide against letting you in, but I haven't heard of that happening. You also want to hold on to that piece of paper they give you (the FMM), as it is proof of your legal entry into the country.
> 
> ...


You can also fly to San Antonio , Texas ; 2 hours non stop , for about the same price or less . It is a very nice place to visit and if you need too , you can buy somethings cheaper there than you can in Mexico ; i e electronics and athletic gear . ps the Riverwalk is a great place to grab a margarita !!


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## BirthAbroad (May 18, 2014)

ojosazules11 said:


> What is being referred to as a "visa" is actually a tourist card or permit, the FMM (Forma Migratoria Multiple para Extranjeros). You don't need to apply for it, you receive it when entering the country. If you enter by air, it is free (apparently cost included in the price of the airline ticket). I haven't entered by land for years, but I've read that when entering by land there is a cost. Others on this forum will know more about that than I do.
> 
> There is not a requirement to remain out of the country for a stipulated number of days, as long as you have left prior to the previous 180 day permit expiring. You basically can leave one day and come back the next for another 180 days. Of course, as with any border the immigration official could decide against letting you in, but I haven't heard of that happening. You also want to hold on to that piece of paper they give you (the FMM), as it is proof of your legal entry into the country.
> 
> ...


The cost for an FMM is around 26 dollars when entering by land. It is known colloquially in Mexico as a "permiso" and I seem to just confuse people when I refer to it
by its full name. It can be given for UP to 180 days at the decision of the issuing agent, however in all my experiences they have been very generous. You will need it to open a bank account in Mexico, upgrade migratory status and other beauracratic affairs with the INM. The FMM does NOT give you the right to work or study, it is meant strictly for tourist visits. Should your permit expire during your stay in Mexico their will be a charge when you present your card as you try to leave. However in Juarez the INM station for getting a FMM is a a different bridge than the one for dropping your old one off. I lived in Mexico on an expired FMM for 5 months. When I went to the border to get a new one, I acted as if I just crossed into Mexico and needed my first FMM. Mexico had no record of my previous entry and lack of exiting and gave me a new one none th wiser. I do not recommend letting it expire however. I wish I could help you with your financial questions as well but I am obtaining my permanent residence through my Mexican-born son and do not have any such restrictions. Again, good luck.


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## Kimbella (Jul 4, 2013)

BirthAbroad said:


> If you go down the forum a little bit, you can find a post about a man who moved to Mexico for 6 days because his wife had a change of mind about moving here. Moving internationally is a huge investment in itself, as for my ending comment, you should be more concerned about looking into why people leave Mexico than why they stay there. What we don't want is for you to naively purchase land in Mexico and wind up moving back out. You already know all the reasons you want to move here, we just want you to be aware of reasons you may NOT want to move here. Although I cannot speak for Isla's intentions in her post and nor do I wish to digress there, most of us are simPly trying to prepare you for every facet of your potential move, including the realities of living here. I do not think anyone here is trying to demotivated you, even some of the people giving you financial advice have given other expats the same advice Isla and I did. Enjoy your preparations, hopefully you can make it down here and most importantly, be happy. Mexico's a beautiful country as you already know, we want you to enjoy it to its fullest without being totally put off by a failure to meet expectations.


Again, thank you. I suppose what most surprised me is the sense of dissuasion that it triggered. I understand how "difficult" an international move can be, I've done it, and without visiting the country beforehand. I'm just looking into whether we would meet criteria to live there or not. Beyond that I'm not doing much further research yet, because if we weren't/aren't eligible, it wouldn't make much sense drawing up a list of pros and cons and then asking people on the forum to "help me decide." I prefer to find out if something is "do-able" before I start exploring whether it's a worthy investment of time/money/interest, etc., That's just how I roll, I guess. I appreciate people's efforts to warn me/question the plan, it just seemed premature in my opinion. 
Like you, I've no desire to turn this into something other than a Q&A forum--I guess I was just shocked at how blithe a moderator was, without addressing any of the actual questions I was asking. 

thanks for all the information and insight!
Moving on....


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## TelefonTek (May 27, 2014)

*Good question and Great Answer *

I love the way you put into words my own feelings and thoughts about Mexico.

Short answer: Moving down here (as I did four months ago) is a wonderful adventure. Immigration is easy and with the income you have its enough to live very comfortably here (I was going to say "like a king" but maybe that would be an exaggeration). Certainly there are many great places with an easy path due to large expat communities, etc.. (Ajijic, San Miguel de Allende, Puerto Vallarta) but if you like large cities, Mexico City is awesome. Cheap, safe, exciting, always surprising and very welcoming of foreigners.

Good luck and hope you and your husband move down here and enjoy this great place. I've never been happier!






Kimbella said:


> My husband and I are both in our early 40's. I'm originally from the US (California), and immigrated to New Zealand a few years ago (my husband is a born and bred kiwi). Although I love New Zealand, I've found that I miss, more than I expected, the Mexican heritage that was a constant thread throughout California, as well as the delicious warm and stable weather! However, I do *not* miss the intrusiveness of the government, nor the aggression of the culture. I do, though, miss the warmth of personality.
> My husband had never had any sort of exposure to any Latin cultures, except for Gloria on Modern Family. When I arrived and started whipping up Mexican inspired foods, and blasting "world" music, showed him pics of different Mexican cities, and the architecture (my favorite!) he basically fell in love with the idea of moving to Mexico in our later years. I loved the idea, because it involves a reintroduction to all the things I loved about California heritage, without the American government, or pedantic, "assertive" American culture. A potential move is something we want to explore now, in case we need to pave the path for a 5-10 year plan.
> 
> I scrolled through the threads to see if I could find specifics on requirements to immigrate, and either they are buried, or labeled in a way that I don't recognize, but I couldn't seem to find anything. I went to the Mexican immigration website, but am not fluent in Spanish...
> ...


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## Longford (May 25, 2012)

The culture experienced in California was "Mexican-American" more than Mexican, I suspect. And living in Mexico is very different than living in California. No comparison, for the most part. And if the OP didn't like the ... "American government, or pedantic, "assertive" American culture ..." I wonder how she/they will adjust to the Mexican lifestyle and the government in Mexico and the regulations, the corruption and, in parts of the country ... the insecurity. Sounds to me we're conversing with someone who may be thinking of Mexico as seen in some Hollywood movies, and not the 'real deal.' Obviously some familiarization trips would be in order and some extensive research ... and then there's the quesiton of even qualifying for a visa to live in Mexico. It's wonderful to dream, and then to have dreams become reality. Sadly, that's not always what happens. Best of luck.


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## RVGRINGO (May 16, 2007)

ojosazules11 said:


> I'm using an iPhone. I click on the link, a new page opens, but it never gets past the "loading" message. If I were to search for the video directly on YouTube, what keywords should I use?


To search YouTube, use AJIJIC, Ron Jackson, Ajijic Productions, Mexico Candy Store, etc.
You may also have the option to open the link in a new tab, new page, etc. I am not familiar with using smart phones, or even cell phones. I am too visually impaired to see them.


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

BirthAbroad said:


> If you go down the forum a little bit, you can find a post about a man who moved to Mexico for 6 days because his wife had a change of mind about moving here.


And in the thread entitled "cars", a forum member named deborahc9133 tells us that after two months of living in Mexico, she's returning to California, partly because, in her own words, "Our plan was to move here but I find that I love to travel here, but not live here, at least for now."


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## Kimbella (Jul 4, 2013)

Longford said:


> The culture experienced in California was "Mexican-American" more than Mexican, I suspect. And living in Mexico is very different than living in California. No comparison, for the most part. And if the OP didn't like the ... "American government, or pedantic, "assertive" American culture ..." I wonder how she/they will adjust to the Mexican lifestyle and the government in Mexico and the regulations, the corruption and, in parts of the country ... the insecurity. Sounds to me we're conversing with someone who may be thinking of Mexico as seen in some Hollywood movies, and not the 'real deal.' Obviously some familiarization trips would be in order and some extensive research ... and then there's the quesiton of even qualifying for a visa to live in Mexico. It's wonderful to dream, and then to have dreams become reality. Sadly, that's not always what happens. Best of luck.


Why would you wonder about me at all? Isn't it my job to take care of myself, do my own due diligence and reach my own decisions in life, then live with them? And, you aren't 'conversing' with me, you're discussing me in the third person, as though I'm not a part of the narrative. : (
Have a stumbled into some exclusive members club?

I truly don't understand how asking questions on a forum, put together for that express purpose, has turned into a judge's chamber for some folks? 

How is it that my few questions created such conflict and scorn? 
I'm *not* moving to Mexico, I'm looking to --> *explore* <-- the _possibility_ (of an 8 to 10 year early retirement plan), _why is this inviting contempt from some people?
_
I thought this was supposed to be a welcoming environment where people turn to for answers and advice? 

I LIVE in another country already--was I supposed to write out my travel and accommodation history before I asked some simple questions about finances and Visas qualifications? I fully understand the differences between being exposed to a place, either through vacations or historical influence, and actually living in that said place. No amount of vacations would have prepped me for New Zealand--so I 'simply' moved. I have/had money if it didn't work out, and that will be the same if my husband and I move to Mexico; however, we are looking at an 8 to 10 year plan, leaving plenty of time for research and visits--ergo my starting point here.

My questions came about from a desire to find out more about qualifications before we even get into a "8/10 year plan" phase. It wouldn't make much sense to even bother to make a plan, if it turned out we'd never qualify to live there, would it? Thus, a few basic questions, including where to go to find my own answers (so I don't pester people with redundant/obvious questions).

Most of you have been very generous and thoughtful with your responses, and it is greatly appreciated; a tiny few have been surprisingly preachy and assuming. 

For that reason, I'm hesitant to stick around, but this IS the premium source for ex-pat sharing, and questions *will* arise as I research ... so, is this how questions are always addressed by a few folks, or did I just get a few people having off days?
I don't want to have to battle through explanations like this all the time, just to get straight answers--surely we all have more to do with our time--like provide direction and support to fellow ex-pats!? 

On the other hand, no one likes to feel as though they're being chided for simply asking questions, or wanting to explore a dream ... am I wrong?


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## Kimbella (Jul 4, 2013)

TelefonTek said:


> I love the way you put into words my own feelings and thoughts about Mexico.
> 
> Short answer: Moving down here (as I did four months ago) is a wonderful adventure. Immigration is easy and with the income you have its enough to live very comfortably here (I was going to say "like a king" but maybe that would be an exaggeration). Certainly there are many great places with an easy path due to large expat communities, etc.. (Ajijic, San Miguel de Allende, Puerto Vallarta) but if you like large cities, Mexico City is awesome. Cheap, safe, exciting, always surprising and very welcoming of foreigners.
> 
> Good luck and hope you and your husband move down here and enjoy this great place. I've never been happier!


Thank you VERY much for the input and support! Our plan is still in the exploration phases, but we're both excited about the prospect. I agree with your assessment about international moves--they ARE an adventure--exactly the sort I love! We're fortunate to have enough money that even if a move didn't work out (as in, we didn't like the place), we could return to New Zealand or the US. But, it's unlikely we'd run away--we know all about doing it the hard way.
Christchurch was nearly leveled by 3 big earthquakes in 2010/2011 and is still being rebuilt--almost 200 people were killed, and the entire central business district was felled; 30,000 home were affected with damage. For my first 18 months here I lived in a house with sporadic plumbing and power, that leaned on a 166mm tilt from the foundation being wrecked, buckled interior walls, and cracks so large in the wood floors that when the wind kicked up, not only did the house whistle, but wind tunnels would develop in the hall! NZ has no form of central heat or power; and our house had literally *no* heating source at all--when it snowed, I turned into the abominable snow-woman! Our side of town was the hardest residential area hit--tonnes of liquification in the yards and street; roads completely smashed, buckled, and separated, sewage and power out for weeks, then when back on, touch and go service ... so, although there's no comparison with the "undeveloped" nature of Mexico, I'm no virgin when it comes to doing it tough. Happily we were able to finally settle the insurance claim and move on!

We also own a 100+ year old railroad cottage in the foothills of the Alps here which has no power, and minimal, gravity fed plumbing (from a rainwater tank). I cook on a coal/wood burning stove there, heat comes via the tiny fireplace; and the only toilet is outside (much like our old "city" house--depending on the plumbing there!) So, I would never stoop to compare the two places, but experiences can still be similar, and at least give you personal insight into whether 'doing it rough' is something you can or can't do.

It's great to hear how successful your move has been, as well as inspiring! Sometimes how you deal with a situation is 50% of whether it's a triumph or not! Attitude is half the battle! 

Cheers!


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## Kimbella (Jul 4, 2013)

Isla Verde said:


> And in the thread entitled "cars", a forum member named deborahc9133 tells us that after two months of living in Mexico, she's returning to California, partly because, in her own words, "Our plan was to move here but I find that I love to travel here, but not live here, at least for now."


If we don't enjoy it, we'll move. We have 3 other countries available to us if Mexico winds up not being our cup of tea: New Zealand, Australia, USA

And, as I've stated in a few posts, all I'm attempting to do is get information to see if this IS the right direction for us (years in the future)

I don't understand your attempts to dissuade/discourage/'warn'. Do you not personally like me, do you feel personally protective of Mexico, do I need to be seeking approval first?

I legitimately don't know what's up with the vague warning that someone who moved there wound up moving back. Happens all the time, all over the world--should I let that dictate my decision to explore Mexico-- you can't be suggesting that?!

What have I done to invite this air?

It's tiresome defending a decision to look into something--especially at the greatest source of information!


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## Kimbella (Jul 4, 2013)

BirthAbroad said:


> The cost for an FMM is around 26 dollars when entering by land. It is known colloquially in Mexico as a "permiso" and I seem to just confuse people when I refer to it
> by its full name. It can be given for UP to 180 days at the decision of the issuing agent, however in all my experiences they have been very generous. You will need it to open a bank account in Mexico, upgrade migratory status and other beauracratic affairs with the INM. The FMM does NOT give you the right to work or study, it is meant strictly for tourist visits. Should your permit expire during your stay in Mexico their will be a charge when you present your card as you try to leave. However in Juarez the INM station for getting a FMM is a a different bridge than the one for dropping your old one off. I lived in Mexico on an expired FMM for 5 months. When I went to the border to get a new one, I acted as if I just crossed into Mexico and needed my first FMM. Mexico had no record of my previous entry and lack of exiting and gave me a new one none th wiser. I do not recommend letting it expire however. I wish I could help you with your financial questions as well but I am obtaining my permanent residence through my Mexican-born son and do not have any such restrictions. Again, good luck.


Thank you for the clarification! I had a similar encounter with the different types of "permanent residency" Visas they have here in New Zealand... different names, different allowances, etc. Can be confusing for a newbie (and they were speaking English!).

Our very loose plan is to *not* work, and fully retire there--at about 50, or early 50's. We have decent funds now, but in 8 to 10 years should have more (business will be liquidated + savings/compounded interest/investments), plus trust monies for a regular "streaming" income... 

It's good to hear the process of being allowed to stay isn't super difficult ... just deciding on the strategy of what and how, etc.

Thanks again!


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## lagoloo (Apr 12, 2011)

There are other forums you can consult that cover all of Mexico. Check the web. You may find another where you are more comfortable. I would name one, but I don't think that isn't permitted here. Should be easy to find since it's been around forever.
Buen Suerte.


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## Playaboy (Apr 11, 2014)

Kimbella said:


> Thank you VERY much for the input and support! Our plan is still in the exploration phases, but we're both excited about the prospect. I agree with your assessment about international moves--they ARE an adventure--exactly the sort I love! We're fortunate to have enough money that even if a move didn't work out (as in, we didn't like the place), we could return to New Zealand or the US. But, it's unlikely we'd run away--we know all about doing it the hard way.
> Christchurch was nearly leveled by 3 big earthquakes in 2010/2011 and is still being rebuilt--almost 200 people were killed, and the entire central business district was felled; 30,000 home were affected with damage. For my first 18 months here I lived in a house with sporadic plumbing and power, that leaned on a 166mm tilt from the foundation being wrecked, buckled interior walls, and cracks so large in the wood floors that when the wind kicked up, not only did the house whistle, but wind tunnels would develop in the hall! NZ has no form of central heat or power; and our house had literally *no* heating source at all--when it snowed, I turned into the abominable snow-woman! Our side of town was the hardest residential area hit--tonnes of liquification in the yards and street; roads completely smashed, buckled, and separated, sewage and power out for weeks, then when back on, touch and go service ... so, although there's no comparison with the "undeveloped" nature of Mexico, I'm no virgin when it comes to doing it tough. Happily we were able to finally settle the insurance claim and move on!
> 
> We also own a 100+ year old railroad cottage in the foothills of the Alps here which has no power, and minimal, gravity fed plumbing (from a rainwater tank). I cook on a coal/wood burning stove there, heat comes via the tiny fireplace; and the only toilet is outside (much like our old "city" house--depending on the plumbing there!) So, I would never stoop to compare the two places, but experiences can still be similar, and at least give you personal insight into whether 'doing it rough' is something you can or can't do.
> ...


I have lived in Mexico for 10 years. Attitude is everything. I never compared the way things are here with the way things are in the States (where I am from). Things are done differently here and are not better nor worse.

Kim, Mexico is a huge country. You never posted if you like beaches, mountains, deserts or jungles. What are you looking for?

If you want a definitive answer regarding income requirements for residency you need to talk to the Mexican Embassy or Consulate in NZ. They are the officials that approve your application.

Kim, after lurking for years I am a new poster on this board too. Keep asking your questions. There are some people with bad attitudes regarding life. Attitude is everything.


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## Kimbella (Jul 4, 2013)

lagoloo said:


> There are other forums you can consult that cover all of Mexico. Check the web. You may find another where you are more comfortable. I would name one, but I don't think that isn't permitted here. Should be easy to find since it's been around forever.
> Buen Suerte.


I'll look into that, and thanks for the suggestion. This was my naturally my first source, since I'm a semi-regular on the NZ forum. You are right though, I need to be comfortable in asking questions--without fear of admonishment.


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## Kimbella (Jul 4, 2013)

Playaboy said:


> I have lived in Mexico for 10 years. Attitude is everything. I never compared the way things are here with the way things are in the States (where I am from). Things are done differently here and are not better nor worse.
> 
> Kim, Mexico is a huge country. You never posted if you like beaches, mountains, deserts or jungles. What are you looking for?
> 
> ...


Thank you very much for the encouragement. Sincerely. 
I wholeheartedly agree with your assessment of how things are done in one place versus another: not better or worse, just different. One would think that because NZ is an English speaking country there would be many similarities... there aren't. The language is where similarities begin and end--so I long ago cast aside the idea of defining or understanding things through "American" eyes. It makes where you came from look artificially better than it is, and where you *are* look worse by quixotic comparison.

It's hard to say, exactly, what I like, because one of the virtues of NZ is you have them all, in a relatively small and easily accessible place. I live in a coastal town, and love that the harbour is less than a 10 min drive, we love to jet-ski; on the other hand, the Southern Alps loom in close proximity... about a 60/90 minute drive... so, we are spoiled for choice here (as far as terrain goes). 
I suppose that ideally I'd want to live somewhere near the coast, but in an area rich in flora and fauna (greenery), preferably with some decent hills or mountains nearby. I don't want to live super isolated and rural; I appreciate and enjoy city life, so long as I capture (somehow) a bit of country for my own living environment. Right now we live on the close fringes of the central city--basically right in the middle of town; right off one of the main roads, but, you'd never know it standing in my front yard. Two houses down is a lovely flowing river, one house over is a historical park and heritage home, our property is on 1/4 acre with chickens and honey bee hives, a garden, and mini orchard in the back ... I'm not looking to replicate this *all* in the future, but I am hoping for a spot somewhere that will allow us to continue_ some_ nature "communing" into advanced age! 
I'm not looking for any sort of perfect paradise--I'm (we're) looking for a place that will be interesting and challenging for us, a place that will test us, make us think, keep us active and on our toes--and, that will feel soul satisfying once we've settled into the rhythm of life there.

Thanks again, playa, for the heartfelt advice!


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