# USA visa question



## louandkim (May 23, 2014)

hi all.
great site.

can someone shed some light please.
we are a UK couple with 10 year multiple entry visas we did 5 months in USA last year followed by 7 months in Canada, now we are in the USA again for another 5 months..

(Travelling in an RV, NOT working)

we intend to go to Mexico for 6 months.

I have been told that we should go back to the UK to comply with our visa regulations.. (don't want too) and that we may have some problems reentering USA from Mexico. because we haven't been back to the UK. 

has anyone any experience or info to (hopefully) alleviate our concern.

kind regards
lou


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## twostep (Apr 3, 2008)

B2 gets issued up to 180 consecutive days. See your I94 for details. Border crossings within the continental US are not considered for re-entry. You were lucky last year. Rule of thumb - 180 days in, 180 days out. The call is yours!


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## BBCWatcher (Dec 28, 2012)

Yes (ouch) this is technically an overstay from the U.S. point of view as Twostep mentions. Canada doesn't count as time outside the U.S. for these purposes. If you want to hop around North America you need more than those two countries to do it. A ferry ride to St. Pierre (part of France) is an example.


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## louandkim (May 23, 2014)

thanks for the feedback guys

Our intention is to go to Mexico for 180 days before returning,(because we want to spend time there not just a visa issue) it is this return that we are a little concerned about.

we are trying to establish the actual rules so we comply completely...it is proving difficult to find out what the rules are, all I got from a call to the border agency was that it is up to the guy on the day! 

will 180 days in Mexico qualify for a restart of our USA visa? 

seems a ferry trip to an island off Newfoundland, whilst a quality idea if we weren't in California, doesn't exactly comply with the spirit of the regulations.

perhaps a weekend trip to Nicaragua or Belize, during our 6 months in Mexico would do it.

Twostep. are you saying that we need to be outside of USA, Canada, and Mexico for 180 days? if so we need to seriously change our plans

we are planning to fly in and out of Mexico (From LAX), does this change things?

your feedback is most appreciated.....we are just trying to do the right thing.

kind regards
Lou


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## twostep (Apr 3, 2008)

Again continental US is not considered "outside". Yes, the duration is up to the immigration officer at point of entry but not at will. I have heard enough stories of those being refused entry from grandmother claiming to babysit and handle the household to previous overstays. Border hopping is not considered "out". LAX is where? Getting out is easy the problem is getting back in.
Again, you were lucky so far.
Remember the Scottish couple who claimed not to be aware of VWP?


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## Davis1 (Feb 20, 2009)

I seem to recall FAM saying you had to leave the continental USA and you had to have a home you have not abandoned overseas ...although if you are OAP.. you may well get pretty much ignored ...
Things can goo real bad for some ...

Barbara Dixon and Richard Cross locked up in U.S. after visa blunder | Mail Online


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## BBCWatcher (Dec 28, 2012)

I need to correct what I wrote. A quick trip to St. Pierre does not reset a U.S. visa clock.

OK, here's what I've been able to find. As Twostep alludes to, the U.S. has a definition of "contiguous territories" in its immigration rules. If you visit the U.S. then proceed to any of the contiguous territories, then re-enter the U.S., your 90 day (Visa Waiver Program) or 180 day (B visa maximum) clock does not reset. The U.S. defines "contiguous territories" to include Canada, Mexico, and adjacent islands. Adjacent islands are defined to include "Anguilla, Antigua, Aruba, Bahamas, Barbados, Barbuda, Bermuda, Bonaire, British Virgin Islands, Cayman Islands, Cuba, Curacao, Dominica, the Dominican Republic, Grenada, Guadeloupe, Haiti, Jamaica, Marie-Galantine, Martinique, Miquelon, Montserrat, Saba, Saint Barthelemy, Saint Christopher, Saint Eustatius, Saint Kitts-Nevis, Saint Lucia, Saint Maarten, Saint Martin, Saint Pierre, Saint Vincent and Grenadines, Trinidad and Tobago, Turks and Caicos Islands, and other British, French and Netherlands territory or possessions bordering on the Caribbean Sea." Note that the Unites States includes...the United States. Puerto Rico, for example, is part of the United States.

OK, so now for some examples. Let's suppose that you have 180 day stay permission when you first enter the United States. You stay in the U.S. for a bit then proceed to one or more of those contiguous territories. You then re-enter the U.S., and finally you completely exit North America. As long as the time elapsed between your initial entry into the U.S. and your final exit from the U.S. (outside the U.S. and its contiguous territories) does not exceed that 180 day limit, you have not overstayed. The common recommendation is that you should also spend the majority of your time (more than half) outside the U.S. and its contiguous territories.

All of this is to really clamp down on what the U.S. would consider "visa running." That's just not something the U.S. likes at all.

OK, what if you have legal residence in one of the contiguous territories? That's helpful, because you then get some more flexibility. The CBP officer extremely unlikely to view your trips to a contiguous territory as side trips if you can demonstrate that's your legal home.

There is some immigration data sharing within North America, particularly between the U.S. and Canada, so it would be dangerous to assume the U.S. doesn't know what you're up to. Admission of a non-citizen/non-national into the United States is always discretionary, so just try to stick to the basic ground rules.

OK, then, now that we've got that explanation out of the way, how could you obey the visa rules _in an RV_? Well, it's simple: head south, _past_ Mexico, across the border into at least Guatemala or Belize. Once you exit Mexico in that direction you've stopped and reset your U.S. visa clock. You can drive all the way to Panama if you wish.

Basically the U.S. is similar to the Schengen Area and the Common Travel Area (U.K. and Ireland) in giving you one visa clock for the whole region.

Now, what happened in your case I assume is that 7 months in Canada got interpreted as not a side trip. In fact it was, but U.S. CBP evidently didn't think so. Lesson learned, water under the bridge, and thankfully/apparently you got a free pass on that one. Though if you have something other than tourist visa access to Canada (i.e. legal residence) then that's different, as noted.


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## louandkim (May 23, 2014)

Again thank you all.

BBCWatcher...your info is especially appreciated, the time and effort you put in for us is fabulous and I thank you in particular.

I hope to help some one else on this site in the future with the same thoroughness, what goes around etc.

It would seem that our plans to go to Mexico would endanger our re-entry desires and as we haven't yet been to every State, (our goal), we must reconsider our plans.

once you started talking about a similarity to Schengen it all fell into place.

we are not OAP'S but we are retired, we present an unusual enough scenario to the boarder control staff as to illicit some questioning and skepticism, (Quite correctly, no complaints here)

I am a little perturbed by the fact that despite my best efforts we would appear to have pushed the regulations somewhat re-entering from Canada, ignorance was bliss, but we cannot fully relax in Mexico knowing we may once again be stretching things, and as I would suspect it to be an accumulative thing we may indeed be in some danger of not being readmitted.

being sat at the Mexican Boarder with a US registered RV and no entry permission does not sound like a good day!

BBCwatcher... can I ask where you found the info please not because I disbelieve you, its just that all of my internet searching and indeed conversations with Boarder Agency Staff and the USA embassy in London did not unearth this , what I consider to be, vital information (for me and presumably others) . 

anyone been to Costa Rica?

kind Regards
lou


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## twostep (Apr 3, 2008)

For my own curiosity - how did you register and insure your RV? Does your insurance cover six months in Mexico? Thank you.

Your entry and re-entry is basically a decision of the immigration officer. There is no official link I have found so far which specifies B2 stays. It is like potato salad. IOs' guidelines are immigration intent. As Davis1 posted - snow birds and their annual migration are almost a given. Others raise flags. You may not remember the US students who were refused entry in Ireland because one cracked a joke.

http://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/...ice Reference Guide/Nonimmigrant_Services.pdf

Costa Rica - I have friends who have a place there. It is not what it used to be ten years ago.


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## BBCWatcher (Dec 28, 2012)

I'm a bit confused how Canada let you stay for more than 6 months. Was that a Canadian overstay? That 7 month stay might have worked in your favor when re-entering the U.S. since there might have been a presumption you have something more than tourist permission in Canada. Thus, upon reflection, I'm not 100% sure you overstayed in the U.S. Ironically, overstaying in Canada would contribute to not overstaying in the U.S. (and vice versa).

Anyway, the U.S. Embassy in Canberra, Australia, has a Web site that explains how it works. I suspect the other embassy Web sites do, too. They explain that tourist stays are supposed to be occasional (key word), and it's up to the CBP officer to decide whether yours are. They also list out the North American countries and territories that get closer scrutiny for "visa run" checking. CBP's Web site also lists these countries and territories.

I think a better way to say it is that if you don't have something more than visa waiver or short-stay visas for the countries in this area, and if you bounce around this area, U.S. CBP has the discretion not to reset your clock since your previous entry into the U.S. That's one of those things they have discretion to consider in deciding whether to admit you. A step outside CBP's definition of North America _definitely_ resets your clock, so they aren't going to consider a re-entry attempt as part of one longer stay. But even then if you rush back into the U.S. CBP still gets to decide whether your trips to the U.S. are occasional in nature. Spending a majority of your time in the U.S., for example, is generally regarded as not occasional.

To recap, CBP is allowed not to reset your U.S. clock if your travel is within only CBP North America. CBP is also allowed to consider whether your visits to the U.S. are occasional in nature. CBP _always_ has the authority to deny non-U.S. citizens and U.S. nationals entry into the United States. CBP tells you in advance some of the criteria it will consider, including these two criteria.


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## twostep (Apr 3, 2008)

Please give an official link stating cbp has the authority to deny entry to US citizens. Thank you.


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## BBCWatcher (Dec 28, 2012)

Nobody here is claiming CBP has such authority. CBP does have the authority to deny non-citizens entry. Which is, of course, what I wrote.


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## twostep (Apr 3, 2008)

BBCWatcher said:


> Nobody here is claiming CBP has such authority. CBP does have the authority to deny non-citizens entry. Which is, of course, what I wrote.


See post 10, last paragraph please.


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## BBCWatcher (Dec 28, 2012)

twostep said:


> See post 10, last paragraph please.


Yes, that paragraph says CPB has the authority to deny non- citizens entry.

Did you simply misread that paragraph?


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## twostep (Apr 3, 2008)

BBCWatcher said:


> Yes, that paragraph says CPB has the authority to deny non- citizens entry.
> 
> Did you simply misread that paragraph?


Here you go:

" CBP always has the authority to *deny non-U.S. citizens and U.S. nationals entry *into the United States. "


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## BBCWatcher (Dec 28, 2012)

Correct. For non-U.S. citizens/nationals (as CBP puts it succinctly), "Please be aware, entering the United States is a privilege, not a right."

I'm not sure where the confusion is here.


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## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

Probably should have phrased it better. I think you meant to say "non-US citizens and non-US nationals." As it stands, it isn't clear that the "non" applies to both "citizens" and "nationals" (though in the US, there really isn't a distinction between "citizens" and "nationals" - at least not one I've ever heard of).

Just for the record, I read the original post the same way twostep did. AFAIK, CBP can't deny entry to anyone who can prove they are a US citizen. I know of folks who arrived with only an expired US passport - and they had to be admitted to the US. 
Cheers,
Bev


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## louandkim (May 23, 2014)

Hi
In answer BBCwatcher. We didnt actually overstay in Canada, my question was about us planning a 6 month trip to Mexico in the RV and returning to USA. So I didn't put all of the detail regarding the past, so as to not confuse , we had actually left Canada appropriately so as to not infringe on their regulations. 

As I say I am trying to do the right thing at every turn. Is not easy when the regulations are left to the officer on the boarder to interpret on a case by case basis, it is blatantly too late at that point. For us to do anything about any transgression we have inadvertently caused. 

Your info has cleared up a lot for us and we intend to give a wide berth to the regulations so as to be certain we don't have any problems. So I'm afraid Mexico is out.. We are now looking at other south and Central American countries..we will leave the RV in storage..

We will be out for 6 months , out of North America..

Twostep.. We have the RV registered via an LLC in Montana , and no our insurance would not have covered Mexico, I would have needed to get Mexican insurance, this is readily available from reputable sources for the many US RV ers that go down to Mexico.

Kind regards
Lou


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## twostep (Apr 3, 2008)

BBCWatcher said:


> Correct. For non-U.S. citizens/nationals (as CBP puts it succinctly), "Please be aware, entering the United States is a privilege, not a right."
> 
> I'm not sure where the confusion is here.


Please read what you posted.


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## BBCWatcher (Dec 28, 2012)

"For non-U.S. citizens and -nationals...."

Everybody happy now?

U.S. nationals are from American Samoa and Swains Island, by the way.


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