# EEA Family Permit



## expatting (Feb 11, 2013)

Hi All,

I posted a thread yesterday after my significant other was refused a General Visitor. Jrge suggested I look into the EEA FP, since I hold Greek Citizenship. I have decided to create a separate thread to address my questions and concerns, which will hopefully help others if they're searching the forums.

Here are my questions from/arising from the application:

1) Why are they asking for both of our finances when that is not part of the application decision? 

2) I was under the impression that the refused General Visitor visa would not play a role in this particular application. However, they still ask for the details (case number). Is this just a standard question? Could they refuse the EEA FP based on the rejected visa?

3) Do I need a EEA National Registration Certificate number?

4) Have you lived with the EEA national in a relationship like a marriage or civil partnership at any time (including since a wedding or civil partnership)? Is this asking if we have lived together in a manner similar to a marriage? Or if we've been living together after an actual marriage?

5) Do I need a national insurance number? I have failed to make my past appointments. I have one on Monday.

6) (Directed toward the non-EU Citizen) Do you intend to work in the UK? My S/O went ahead and said "No". She does not know whether she will look for work or not. She will probably leave the current job she has now. Will her employment play any part in their decision?

7) Is there any other information you wish to be considered as part of your application? Is this where we should include information? Or just submit cover letter with supporting docs?



Overall, I am a little uneasy about this process since I felt confident the previous visa would be approved. The requirements for the EEA GP seem so straight forward that I am almost a skeptic. We have a two-year lease together, plenty of tickets/pictures from holidays, joint bank account, joint Credit card, etc. I don't want to leave anything open for them to reject.

Thanks for the guidance.


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## Jrge (Mar 22, 2011)

expatting said:


> Hi All,
> 
> I posted a thread yesterday after my significant other was refused a General Visitor. Jrge suggested I look into the EEA FP, since I hold Greek Citizenship. I have decided to create a separate thread to address my questions and concerns, which will hopefully help others if they're searching the forums.
> 
> ...


1) This is a generic form. You don't have to disclose any of your finances.
2) In your particular case (Sarah's) no. Unless she has had some serious criminal past.
3) No. But it "might" help out.
4) If y'all have lived as a couple. That includes, having a lease agreement, joint bank accounts, Insurance Policies and the likes. 
5) It will help.
6) No. What matters here is what you do, and not what she does. However, I encourage everybody to say yes, because they need to help to cover the household expenses (nothing is free, eh)
7) You need to draft a nice, polite and precise cover letter to support her application. Look around, I have share one here somewhere.

I understand you find this to easy to be true, but it is and I trust you have all the necessary evidence to apply for it. 

Animo
(Cheers)


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## expatting (Feb 11, 2013)

Are there any requirements for the joint account -- Specifically, the amount of time the account has been joint? Will UKBA verify this?

Also, do you think UKBA will scrutinize our landlord? I ask because the landlord is my S/O's father. He owns multiple properties in our city, and the neighboring city that he leases out. We signed a legitimate lease, but the ECA's will try and find any holes they can. Do I need to go as far as to have him write a letter? Include his taxes on all his properties?


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## Jrge (Mar 22, 2011)

Hi,


expatting said:


> 1) Are there any requirements for the joint account -- Specifically, the amount of time the account has been joint? Will UKBA verify this?
> 
> 2) Also, do you think UKBA will scrutinize our landlord? I ask because the landlord is my S/O's father. He owns multiple properties in our city, and the neighboring city that he leases out. We signed a legitimate lease, but the ECA's will try and find any holes they can. Do I need to go as far as to have him write a letter? Include his taxes on all his properties?


1) No.
2) No.

Animo
(Cheers)


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## expatting (Feb 11, 2013)

Excellent. Thank you!


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## expatting (Feb 11, 2013)

So I am looking over the EEA Family Permit which is used by entry clearance staff on the handling of applications made outside the United Kingdom Internal Guidance.

I was under the impression that the previous general visitor visa refusal wouldn't be considered in the decision process for the EEA FP (Extended Partner). But the section pasted below seems to suggest that the EOC can, at their discretion, deny a EEA FP (for extended partners) based on the same reasons as the general visitor visa:

"Where the applicant can show that he / she is the extended family member of an EEA national, the ECO may issue an EEA family permit if in all circumstances, it appears to the ECO appropriate to issue the EEA family permit. Therefore, an EEA family permit may be refused:

- where refusing the family member would not prevent the EEA national from exercising his / her Treaty rights or would not create an effective obstacle to the exercise of Treaty rights;
*- if the applicant would have been refused entry to the UK on general grounds for refusal had they been applying for entry under the Immigration Rules;*
- maintenance and accommodation requirements aren't met, for example, the non-EEA national's admittance would result in recourse to public funds."

Does anyone want to try and explain this clause? I read it as the EOC can deny the EEA FP (extended family) on the same grounds as the general visitor visa was refused, i.e. insufficient funds, no intent to leave, etc.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

expatting said:


> So I am looking over the EEA Family Permit which is used by entry clearance staff on the handling of applications made outside the United Kingdom Internal Guidance.
> 
> I was under the impression that the previous general visitor visa refusal wouldn't be considered in the decision process for the EEA FP (Extended Partner). But the section pasted below seems to suggest that the EOC can, at their discretion, deny a EEA FP (for extended partners) based on the same reasons as the general visitor visa:
> 
> ...


You can ignore that section as it deals specifically with *extended family member(s)* such as unmarried partner, sibling, parent, grandparent etc, whereas you are applying for your spouse, who is a family member. There is no wriggle room for UKBA to deny EEA family permit for family members, as they have derived right under EU law to accompany you. Extended family members have no such right, so there is greater scope for UKBA to deny family permit. So her presvious denial of visitor visa shouldn't affect her chances of getting family permit. The only ground for refusal is doubt over relationship, such as lack of documentary evidence or marriage of convenience.


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## expatting (Feb 11, 2013)

Joppa said:


> You can ignore that section as it deals specifically with *extended family member(s)* such as unmarried partner, sibling, parent, grandparent etc, whereas you are applying for your spouse, who is a family member. There is no wriggle room for UKBA to deny EEA family permit for family members, as they have derived right under EU law to accompany you. Extended family members have no such right, so there is greater scope for UKBA to deny family permit. So her presvious denial of visitor visa shouldn't affect her chances of getting family permit. The only ground for refusal is doubt over relationship, such as lack of documentary evidence or marriage of convenience.


Haha, unfortunately I am apply under extended family (unmarried partners)

My unmarried partner was denied because there was not enough intent to return and lack of ties back home. I feel that those reasons can not be used for an EEA FP unmarried partners. Her ties should theoretically be with me, since we are trying to prove our "akin to marriage". 

Am I just trying to make myself feel better?


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Can't you just get married? It will make life so much easier for qualifying under EU rules!


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## expatting (Feb 11, 2013)

Joppa said:


> Can't you just get married? It will make life so much easier for qualifying under EU rules!


Actually, I do have a ring and her Father's permission. But I don't think that would solve any of the potential issue that could arise with the EEA FP. We would need to still show that our marriage is backed by a durable relationship.


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## Jrge (Mar 22, 2011)

Hi,


expatting said:


> Actually, I do have a ring and her Father's permission. But I don't think that would solve any of the potential issue that could arise with the EEA FP. We would need to still show that our marriage is backed by a durable relationship.


Whilst I respect your position on the marriage part, Joppa is right on the money. You have the relevant documents, have her dad's permission and the ring! 

However, I anticipate a positive outcome should she decide to apply for it now.

Animo
(Cheers)


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## expatting (Feb 11, 2013)

We are still getting all the necessary documents together for the application. We want to include photos of our trips (about 10+ trips over the past 2.5 years & corresponding airline tickets) but there is a concern about the date verification. The pictures don't include a time stamp...which is something that the UKBA might probe, even though we have supporting tickets.

Is this something that we should be concerned with? Is providing pictures overkill? We already have over two years of co-signed leases, joint accounts, 401k beneficiaries, etc.


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## Jrge (Mar 22, 2011)

Hi,


expatting said:


> We are still getting all the necessary documents together for the application. We want to include photos of our trips (about 10+ trips over the past 2.5 years & corresponding airline tickets) but there is a concern about the date verification. The pictures don't include a time stamp...which is something that the UKBA might probe, even though we have supporting tickets.
> 
> Is this something that we should be concerned with? Is providing pictures overkill? We already have over two years of co-signed leases, joint accounts, 401k beneficiaries, etc.


If you like, you could send 4 pictures (clearly showing age progression) with corresponding airline tickets. 

I'm not fond of sending pictures or disclosing financial information, but when it comes to unmarried couples, the more the better.

Animo
(Cheers)


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## expatting (Feb 11, 2013)

Alright...things are starting to wrap up with our application. Below you will find the list of supporting documents that will be submitted. I've organized the documents in a way that helps me keep track of everything, not necessarily how they will be submitted. Please feel free to share any comments! Apologies if it's confusing...

*Cover letter
*Letter acknowledging previous refusal of general visitor visa

*Joint Folder (Excluding Leases)
- Council Tax bill with both names on bill (for my flat in London) 
- Google Chat logs dating Nov 2009 - Feb 2013 (Not the actual chats, just the list of all the chats with date and time)
- 401k with Girlfrend as beneficiary
- AMEX joint Savings Account

* Trips Folder : Tickets accompanied by corresponding pictures from May 2011 – Jan 2013 (Not in chronological order)
- Brussels Sept 2012
- Paris Nov 2012 (#4)
- Paris Oct 2012 (#3)
- Paris New Years 2011-2012 (#2)
- Paris May 2011 (#1)
- Geneva (Zermatt Ski Trip) Jan 2013
- Marrakesh Nov 2012
- Greece Aug 2012
- Dublin Dec 2012
- Lille July 2012
- Lyon (Val d’isere Ski Trip) Dec 2012
- Milan New Years 2012 – 2013
- Amsterdam (via Brussels) Nov 2012

* Mutual friend Folder (the one who introduced aka Matchmaker)
- Her Ticket to London when she came to visit us
- Letter vouching for our relationship 

*Cohabitation Folder
- 2.5 year lease from US address Feb 2010 - Jul 2012 (Note: All bills were included)
- Letter from US Landlord verifying lease was satisfied
- Lease from First flat in London Jul 2012 - Jan 2013 (My company paid for this, so it only had my name on the lease -- but from my understanding, UKBA doesn't consider living together while traveling as continuous cohabitation)
- Letter from Landlord verifying that me and gf lived there
- Lease from new flat in UK (Feb 2013 -- only my name on lease as girlfriend was already back in the US since her 6 months visitor visa expired)
- Letter from current landlord giving girlfriend permission to stay during upcoming six month visit


*EEA National Folder
- Company offer letter (Been in UK since Jul 2012)
- Three month’s Pay slip (For good measure)
- Greek and American Passport
- Greek Embassy sponsored letter


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## expatting (Feb 11, 2013)

We have completed the compilation of evidence (as seen above). I am scouring the UKBA site and the EU Regulations to make sure I am not missing anything. I have come across the following a couple of times:



> Would refusing the application deter the relevant EEA national from
> exercising his/her free movement rights?


As per the usual, the wording seems ambiguous, at least to me. My significant other and I have already discussed our plan if she can not obtain entry clearance. I will voluntarily leave my job here in the UK and return to the US. This is just something we believe is necessary. 

Is this something that would fall under "deter the relevant EEA national from 
exercising his/her free movement rights?"


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## Jrge (Mar 22, 2011)

Hi,


expatting said:


> We have completed the compilation of evidence (as seen above). I am scouring the UKBA site and the EU Regulations to make sure I am not missing anything. I have come across the following a couple of times:
> 
> *Would refusing the application deter the relevant EEA national from
> exercising his/her free movement rights? *
> ...


What they mean is this: even if your girlfriend's application is rejected, you can still remain in the UK and exercise your freedom of movement. 

Animo
(Cheers)


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## expatting (Feb 11, 2013)

Alright...the application and supporting documents arrived in the NYC office this past Monday morning. We received the generic email yesterday afternoon letting us know they have opened the package and organized the documents in preparation to be reviewed.

Just got an email from them letting us know the permit was ISSUED! What a relief...and they were very quick with the review.

Time to get my girlfriend back to London in time for Spring!

Thanks to everyone who helped, and even those who have posted their experiences/knowledge.


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## Jrge (Mar 22, 2011)

Hi,


expatting said:


> Alright...the application and supporting documents arrived in the NYC office this past Monday morning. We received the generic email yesterday afternoon letting us know they have opened the package and organized the documents in preparation to be reviewed.
> 
> Just got an email from them letting us know the permit was ISSUED! What a relief...and they were very quick with the review.
> 
> ...


I'm glad we had anticipated this outcome. Make sure to be at the airport when she flies in, and don't forget to bring her flowers: girls like that! 

Animo
(Cheers)


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