# Another US citizen engaged to UK citizen, some questions...



## elizaswims (Aug 20, 2012)

Hello all,

I am new to this forum and have seen how helpful the advice (especially from all you lovely moderators) can be and was hoping to get a little more specific advice for my situation.

I am a US citizen living in the US and recently engaged to marry my UK citizen fiancé (who is currently living in the UK). We have been together > 3 yrs and will have no trouble proving our relationship as we have both acquired various short-term VISAs in each others' countries in addition to numerous visits back and forth on the VWP during the course of our courtship. I am 30 and he is 34, neither of us have children.

We are in the early stages of planning our wedding and would like to get married in the US but with plans for us both to live in the UK. I am actually a physician and am in the process of taking the PLAB exams to obtain a UK medical license. Ideally, I will get a UK license this fall and can then apply for employment and get VISA sponsorship through an employer (e.g. one of the Deaneries of the NHS). However, should this pathway not work (e.g. I fail exams, it takes too long, or I can't find work), I was wondering if anyone could answer my questions below:

1. Does the UKBA outline a process for getting married in the US and then moving immediately to the UK? I only see options for getting a fiancée VISA or a visitor VISA for a plan to get married while in the UK.

2. I have read on other threads that my fiancé will be able to enter the US on the VWP for our wedding in the US. Is this true? Should I verify this with the USBA on my end? He has not had any infringements and has never had any trouble going through immigration.

3. Any opinions on which route is better? Employer sponsorship vs spousal sponsorship?

4. My fiancé does make > 25,700 pounds/yr, but he rents his flat (where we would live as a couple). He has no debt and has some modest savings (<20,000 pounds, and possibly < 10,000 pounds after we pay for our wedding  ). I have considerable student loans from medical school but should have a small amount of savings myself and (hopefully) a plan for employment with the NHS. Will any of these details be a problem?

5. Would it be better for us to get married earlier than I hope to move (e.g. have a civil marraige now-ish and the big church wedding that we want a little later), so that I will have a marraige certificate to use for a VISA application?

Any other advice you can give would be much appreciated.

Thanks a bunch!
Eliza


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

elizaswims said:


> Hello all,
> 
> I am new to this forum and have seen how helpful the advice (especially from all you lovely moderators) can be and was hoping to get a little more specific advice for my situation.


Welcome to the forum. We will try!



> I am a US citizen living in the US and recently engaged to marry my UK citizen fiancé (who is currently living in the UK). We have been together > 3 yrs and will have no trouble proving our relationship as we have both acquired various short-term VISAs in each others' countries in addition to numerous visits back and forth on the VWP during the course of our courtship. I am 30 and he is 34, neither of us have children.
> 
> We are in the early stages of planning our wedding and would like to get married in the US but with plans for us both to live in the UK. I am actually a physician and am in the process of taking the PLAB exams to obtain a UK medical license. Ideally, I will get a UK license this fall and can then apply for employment and get VISA sponsorship through an employer (e.g. one of the Deaneries of the NHS). However, should this pathway not work (e.g. I fail exams, it takes too long, or I can't find work), I was wondering if anyone could answer my questions below:
> 
> 1. Does the UKBA outline a process for getting married in the US and then moving immediately to the UK? I only see options for getting a fiancée VISA or a visitor VISA for a plan to get married while in the UK.


Yes. It's called getting a spouse settlement visa. See UK Border Agency | Applying from outside the UK



> 2. I have read on other threads that my fiancé will be able to enter the US on the VWP for our wedding in the US. Is this true? Should I verify this with the USBA on my end? He has not had any infringements and has never had any trouble going through immigration.


Yes, that will be no problems. Numerous people have done it. He just needs proof that after his wedding he will leave US.



> 3. Any opinions on which route is better? Employer sponsorship vs spousal sponsorship?


Either route will work, and both have 5-year residence requirement before you can settle (live permanently, like getting a green card) in UK. You can also combine the two, like starting with Tier 2 work visa followed by further leave to remain as spouse. The only thing is while Tier 2 restricts your working for the same employer (NHS), spouse visa has no such restriction (like privately).



> 4. My fiancé does make > 25,700 pounds/yr, but he rents his flat (where we would live as a couple). He has no debt and has some modest savings (<20,000 pounds, and possibly < 10,000 pounds after we pay for our wedding  ). I have considerable student loans from medical school but should have a small amount of savings myself and (hopefully) a plan for employment with the NHS. Will any of these details be a problem?


Only requirement for spouse visa (which he meets) is his annual pay is £18,600 (earned at least 6 months for the same employer), and that you have somewhere to live (rented or owned). Your debts and savings don't matter.



> 5. Would it be better for us to get married earlier than I hope to move (e.g. have a civil marraige now-ish and the big church wedding that we want a little later), so that I will have a marraige certificate to use for a VISA application?


That's up to you, depending on when you wish to move to UK. UKBA only requires that you are legally married, with proper certificate as proof. Even with a quiet ceremony, you still want to include photos showing familes and guests to authenticate your relationship.


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## elizaswims (Aug 20, 2012)

Wow you are fast! Thanks so much for getting back to me. Will discuss all this with my fiancé and will likely have more questions later. 

If you could clarify one more thing, though...  Assuming for one reason or another I don't get to move to England before we get married, and I am applying for the spouse settlement VISA, won't there still be a delay in terms of when I am able to apply for the VISA (e.g. after the wedding, marraige certificate available, etc) and when I can actually move to England? According to the UKBA website for applicants from the US, it seems settlement VISAs are granted anywhere from 2 weeks to 24 weeks later!

As I am sure most couples are, we are excited to finally start our lives together living in the same country, and that would ideally mean flying to England within a few days after our wedding! Am I being too idealistic?


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

elizaswims said:


> Wow you are fast! Thanks so much for getting back to me. Will discuss all this with my fiancé and will likely have more questions later.
> 
> If you could clarify one more thing, though...  Assuming for one reason or another I don't get to move to England before we get married, and I am applying for the spouse settlement VISA, won't there still be a delay in terms of when I am able to apply for the VISA (e.g. after the wedding, marraige certificate available, etc) and when I can actually move to England? According to the UKBA website for applicants from the US, it seems settlement VISAs are granted anywhere from 2 weeks to 24 weeks later!
> 
> As I am sure most couples are, we are excited to finally start our lives together living in the same country, and that would ideally mean flying to England within a few days after our wedding! Am I being too idealistic?


You have the option of getting a fiancée visa for UK, getting married within 6 months and then applying for further leave to remain as spouse. Disadvantage of this is you have to apply and pay for two lots of visa/leave within a few months. 

Currently processing time at UKBA in US is very long following a major change in visa rules last month. Hopefully it will get shorter by the time you apply, to something more typical like 2-3 weeks from when you apply online till you get your passport back with visa. There's an option of paying $300 extra for priority, which cuts the waiting time. You can't get in a few days as you need to arrange biometric appointment at an application support center run by USCIS (which can take a week or so) and send and receive supporting documents to/from NYC. You can slightly speed things up by taking the signed marriage license in person to the vital records office, for registration of your marriage and issue of certificates (get a few copies).


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## elizaswims (Aug 20, 2012)

Thanks so much, you have been really helpful. I appreciate the advice 

Eliza


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## pyung (Jun 5, 2013)

Eliza-

Saw your post and was very interested to see how things have turned out for you. I am in the same position as you: married to a UK citizen and moved to the UK in Sep 2012. I am a board certified Internal Medicine doc, trained in the US (both med school and residency) and am about to take the PLAB next week. I took the Acute Medicine exam and passed, but was told that I can't use that to get registered and get the medical license. 
Did you take PLAB? How was it for you? Also, what is your specialty? I have spent the last few years trying to get information out of the GMC and it is really difficult to get straight answers. Also, how did you handle getting work? I have looked into locum agencies but most state that prior UK experience is required and I am wondering how to get said experience?
Any insight you have would be great. Have already been told wrong information from a few sources, so keen to get this sorted out in the next 6 months.

Thanks,

Patty


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## elizaswims (Aug 20, 2012)

Hi Patty, I'll try to answer your questions as best I can. Sorry it has taken me a few days to reply. I guess when you are dormant a while on here they deactivate your account, so I had to get 'activated' again!

To bring you up to speed, I took and passed the PLABs, was granted registration and license with the GMC, and was able to get a work visa with sponsorship via a job as a locum middle grade pediatrician in a small district hospital near where my fiancé lives. So that's where I am now, sort of working as a senior resident again.

I took the PLAB exams last year and passed the written PLAB 1 (the one I was worried about) on the first try without much preparation. I am a pediatrician, so I imagine as you are IM trained, you'll find it even easier because you have more breadth of clinical practice. 

PLAB 2 (the OSCE one) I also didn't do anything to prepare for as I had been assured by other IMGs that it was easy and I would do fine. Unfortunately, that was bad advice and I failed it the first time. There were three things I did wrong: I didn't brush up on the other fields of medicine (e.g. OB, gyn, surgery, etc), I didn't do any preparation for the procedures they test for, and I didn't brush up on doing by-the-book focused physical exams. The second time I took PLAB 2, I spent a few weeks googling what the common stations were. Then I hedged my bets and tried to focus on the things I wouldn't have a clue how to discuss if I got that scenario. For example, hormone replacement therapy, surgical complications, etc. I didn't study everything because there are about a million possible scenarios. I brushed up on physical exam components for various organ systems (e.g. remembering to test egophony and tactile fremitus and stuff with the chest exam). Then I watched Youtube videos on the various testable procedures (venipuncture, cannulation, ABGs, pap smear, bladder cath, etc). I specifically looked for ones where the person demonstrating had an English accent . That preparation allowed me to pass PLAB 2 without much trouble. Did you say you were taking PLAB 1 or 2 this week?

I'm not sure what the Acute Medicine Exam is. Is that a US test or a UK test? Anyway, I had to take the PLABs even though I was board certified in Peds from the US. Once I passed those exams, I applied for full registration with a license to practice from the GMC. That was granted (after jumping through some hoops, especially with regard to the UK requirement for an 'internship') and that made me eligible to apply for jobs. The hiring system in the UK is quite confusing I thought, as there are different names for the same job depending on whether you are training or nontraining, locum or not. I found good advice by just emailing the lead pediatrician at hospitals near where my fiancé lived. I even met with a few of them when I was over here visiting. 

Are you trying to work as a consultant? The ease with which you can get hired depends on whether you are happy to work in a middle grade post (similar to a resident), since these are generally easy to get, and where you live. I was only an attending for 6 months prior to moving, so it wasn't that difficult for me to go back to working in a junior role again. My fiancé lives in a relatively rural area (read: where people wouldn't necessarily choose to come work), so there are lots of posts open near him. If you are trying to work in a big city, you might have more trouble. Also, I know that pediatrics is on the shortage occupation list, so that made it easier for me too. I'm not sure if medicine is on the shortage list. But, that said, if you would be happy to work in areas that are more specified (e.g. as a middle grade in cardiology, for example) you might find more positions too. 

Are you on the NHS jobs website yet? Go there and sign up for job notifications. Once you get familiar with that site, you'll get an idea of what kind of experience they want for each particular job (under the 'job specifications' link). You can also email the contact person directly and ask for advice as to whether you would be a suitable candidate for a given post. I was told that getting the first job is the most difficult, but then it gets easier. I think the fact that you speak English and are US trained is probably a big plus. 

Ok, so I've rambled on a lot, but I would love to help any way I can. I had a difficult time figuring out how to navigate this system so if I can make it easier for you, that would make me feel like I am paying it forward and all that. Feel free to email me directly too, if you like. My email is 

Hope your test goes well!
Liza


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## pyung (Jun 5, 2013)

Hey Liza-

Thanks so much! BTW, I think the site deleted your email address, so maybe we can find a way to inbox message those? Would love to discuss more particulars with you.
I took PLAB 1 today, and it was an absolute nightmare. Very vague questions without much leading information. I guess I am used to the US descriptions where there is at least a piece of history and exam thrown in. A lot of the questions were just one bit of information and asking for diagnosis or treatment, but not enough info to decide! Well, there's a month to wait now, so hoping I scraped by. I was astonished to see how many people took the PLAB! There were loads there!
The acute medicine test is a UK test (similar to ABIM in US, but more for critical care and emergencies, etc). Just so frustrating that I might not get a license easily because I can't remember stupid things I haven't used in 5 years! Oh well. Thanks for the advice for the PLAB 2, I will do that. I also bought a few review books for it, so am planning on reading those.
I am completely fine working in a training/midgrade posting, I just want to work! We have 3 years here (at least) and I don't want to be out of medicine that long. There are lots of medicine subspecialties I like, so maybe that will help me. Downside is that we are in greater London, so competition is higher.
I have looked at the NHS jobs website, not in detail yet, as I don't have the license, but was also thinking a locum company might be a good place to start. But, they won't let me register with them until the licensing stuff is worked out.
I agree, the system is so hard to navigate, and with not a lot of Americans coming over here, it seems so frustrating at times. I have been at my wits end more than I can count now, but am really committed to doing this, so am trying to find a way. I really appreciate your advice!

Patty


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## pyung (Jun 5, 2013)

Also, I think I have to post a few times in order to get PMs? Going to give it a try.


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## pyung (Jun 5, 2013)

Any other US trained doctors out there who are looking to work in the UK/have successfully navigated the waters in the UK?


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## elizaswims (Aug 20, 2012)

I think I've managed to send you a message, so check that out for my email address. 

The other thing I've had to get used to here is doing all the blood draws and IV placements. Nightmare! 

Liza


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## pyung (Jun 5, 2013)

Hey Liza-

Unfortunately, I don't see your message in the PM section, so I think it is still up to me to get the posts up to 5, then maybe we can work it out!
I have heard the blood draws/IV stuff before and was thinking about that! I think I will have to do that for PLAB 2 as well, which should be alright, since I have done a bunch of those. Luckily, I have spent the last 6 months working in a MICU, so my procedural stuff is pretty good at the moment.
Hope to be able to PM soon.

Patty


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## elizaswims (Aug 20, 2012)

Sorry about that, I was sure my message went through, but you must be right. Good thing your procedural skills are up to scratch. That should make it easier for you. I think you only have to pass 8 or 9 of the stations and I had at least 3 procedures both times I took it.

BTW, happy Independence Day! It's my first one over here and I am homesick  Can't even figure out where to buy sparklers. 

Liza


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## pyung (Jun 5, 2013)

No problem! Hopefully now we can private message and then just use email. 

Happy Independence day to you! Its a quiet one for me, as I fly to the UK tomorrow! Sorry you are homesick, I know how you must feel. My first Thanksgiving there was last year and it was really sad.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Former colony gaining independence from Britain by force is hardly a reason for celebration!
Expat groups have some kind of celebrations, and the US embassy hosts a lavish party by invitation only.


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## pyung (Jun 5, 2013)

Eliza-

Hello again! I must be the master procrastinator as I am just now getting back on the site! 

Well, since I was on last, I passed Plab 1 (cannot believe it!) and am gearing up for Plab 2 in October. I am about to start studying, so will take your earlier advice about the YouTube videos, etc. 

How are you finding things so far? 

Patty


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## elizaswims (Aug 20, 2012)

Hello again, very glad to hear you passed PLAB 1. I bet it was such a relief when that result came through, wasn't it?! I hope you celebrated!

Things are good with us, we did get married on August 10th in my hometown of Columbus Ohio. We went to Corfu for a short honeymoon and then returned to England. I am in the process of applying for a spouse settlement visa now, which hopefully will go through fine.

I am settled into my middle grade post and have gone from part time to full time. I like it in some ways, but there is very much a small town mentality of medicine (lots of anecdotal medicine, a firm heirarchy, lots of expectation about being polite and subservient) which I am not used to. I was coming from a huge place that prides itself on evidence-based, family-centered care in the USA. But I am just trying to do a good job without making too many waves.

Hope PLAB 2 will treat you well!!

Liza


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## pyung (Jun 5, 2013)

Hi Liza-

Congratulations on the wedding! And the job, as well, that's great to hear that you got a post pretty quickly. I just took PLAB 2 this past Wednesday, and I have to say, it was a lot harder than expected! 2 weeks until the result, so I am just hoping I did enough to get by this time! Very nerve-wracking as I am sure you remember. Oh well, can only do our best, right!
I am about to get my CV ready and look for some postings, just in case, so hopefully there will be some posts around me down here. I'll keep the hierarchy in mind, its to be expected, I guess, but my background sounds pretty similar to yours so it'll be an adjustment! 

Patty


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## pyung (Jun 5, 2013)

Hi Liza-

Sorry if I'm being a pain, but I am having some trouble with the GMC and wanted to know if you had any advice? They have asked me for a lot of documentation, which I have provided, but one thing that keeps coming up is if I can prove that I had a training license while in residency? Did you have to provide this? If so, did you get it from your residency or the state DoH? I'm confused as to why they want this, since I have an unrestricted full license to practice since I became an attending back home.
I'm so frustrated with this situation, I passed the PLABS and applied for my license 2 months ago, but I still don't have it and they keep making requests for things that seem superfluous. Was this your experience too? I am wondering if I am just getting the run around or if this is just how they are. Given that the application only lasts 3 months and then you have to reapply, I am getting to my boiling point but don't know what else to do.

Thanks (and sorry for the rant!),

Patty


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## elizaswims (Aug 20, 2012)

pyung said:


> Hi Liza-
> 
> Sorry if I'm being a pain, but I am having some trouble with the GMC and wanted to know if you had any advice? They have asked me for a lot of documentation, which I have provided, but one thing that keeps coming up is if I can prove that I had a training license while in residency? Did you have to provide this? If so, did you get it from your residency or the state DoH? I'm confused as to why they want this, since I have an unrestricted full license to practice since I became an attending back home.
> I'm so frustrated with this situation, I passed the PLABS and applied for my license 2 months ago, but I still don't have it and they keep making requests for things that seem superfluous. Was this your experience too? I am wondering if I am just getting the run around or if this is just how they are. Given that the application only lasts 3 months and then you have to reapply, I am getting to my boiling point but don't know what else to do.
> ...


Hi Patty, Sorry it has taken me a few days to reply. I had to reset my password...

I did have to provide evidence of my training licenses from during residency. I'm not sure why they need this, but I just got ahold of them. In Ohio, the State Medical Board has a website where you can request copies of any previous medical licenses (at $50 a pop!). But because it was so expensive and I needed 3 copies (one for each year of training), I ended up getting copies from my residency program and then I had them certified by a notary. 

I'm sorry it has been a mess for you. The GMC does ask for tons and tons of documentation, but I always found the people I dealt with, either on the phone or in person, to be very apologetic and polite. It's hard to get mad at them because it's just the system they have to work with. Really, when you think about the fact that some doctors are trying to work in the UK from some tiny place in Africa for example, it makes sense why they have to rigorously prove everyone's qualifications. That said, when it was me going through the process, I was also a little indignant because I thought it was silly since I was trained in the USA!

Hang in there, once it's all over, you can breathe a sigh of relief. It won't ever be so difficult again.

Congrats on passing PLAB 2! You are coming down the home stretch!!

Liza


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## elizaswims (Aug 20, 2012)

How are things, Patty? Have you managed to get your GMC registration? Are you working? I'm just curious and hoping things have ended up well for you. 

Liza


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