# Scope of Doctor Jobs in Germany



## eyes1aq

Hi,

I am Pakistani doctor, working in Oman.

I want to come to Germany to work as a doctor in general practise. However, I don't know what are the job prospects non-EU doctors, esp Pakistani doctors.

I don't have knowledge of German language, however, I plan to take a language course in Germany. My English, however is very good.

I want to know how easy foreign doctors can find job after learning German language and passing the test with score at B2 level?

Also how difficult is German language to learn? How much time a needed normally? Most institutes provide courses of 2 months duration. I wonder if this time is adequate! 

Thanks


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## James3214

I wouldn't say your prospects are particularly good without German,but I have met and seen plenty of non native German medical professionals who seemed to have commanded it very well to be able to practice. It's not an easy language to learn but it's not one of the hardest either. Just remember that there are 16 ways of saying 'the'! You would obviously need a few years to become proficient and I doubt if you will have learnt enough even with an intensive 2 month course.


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## ALKB

eyes1aq said:


> Hi,
> 
> I am Pakistani doctor, working in Oman.
> 
> I want to come to Germany to work as a doctor in general practise. However, I don't know what are the job prospects non-EU doctors, esp Pakistani doctors.
> 
> I don't have knowledge of German language, however, I plan to take a language course in Germany. My English, however is very good.
> 
> I want to know how easy foreign doctors can find job after learning German language and passing the test with score at B2 level?
> 
> Also how difficult is German language to learn? How much time a needed normally? Most institutes provide courses of 2 months duration. I wonder if this time is adequate!
> 
> Thanks



First of all, you should find out whether your qualification would be accepted in Germany. I know a doctor who had to go back to university, which of course is taught in German.

I think a year of intensive language course (full time) would be realistic, as this is what is recommended for foreign students without prior knowledge of German.


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## eyes1aq

Thanks James and ALKB the reply. 

Can you guide me where to send application for the approval of qualification?


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## vronchen

here is a list of contacts for approbations for the different states: http://www.bundesaerztekammer.de/downloads/Approbationsbehoerden20100809.pdf

it seems that you need to pass at least the B2 level german class to get an approbation. in some cases you need to pass an exam to show that you have the required medical knowledge. from what I have heard the exam is required if the length of your studies and/or the classes taken differ from the german medical study.


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## ALKB

vronchen said:


> here is a list of contacts for approbations for the different states: http://www.bundesaerztekammer.de/downloads/Approbationsbehoerden20100809.pdf
> 
> it seems that you need to pass at least the B2 level german class to get an approbation. in some cases you need to pass an exam to show that you have the required medical knowledge. from what I have heard the exam is required if the length of your studies and/or the classes taken differ from the german medical study.


This seems to be primarily for people who studied in Germany and the EU?

Have a look here:

About us

Their recognition finder states that doctors need to undergo a "Gleichwertigkeitspruefung" (assessment of comparability) before they can apply for an approbation. Write them an email and see what they say.

The relevant authority normally depends on the province in Germany where you live. From outside of Germany, you can send your documents to a central office:

Anträge auf berufliche Anerkennung aus dem Ausland: Ständige Konferenz der Kultusminister der Länder in der Bundesrepublik Deutschland (KMK)

The PDF document on the bottom of the page is the form you need to use. The service is free of charge.

As far as I can see, the form is only available in German.

You will need to have all your documents translated into German by an official translator.

Another link for you:

http://www.anerkennung-in-deutschland.de/html/en/160.php


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## eyes1aq

Thank you ALKB for detailed and definite reply. So, first step is to learn German language and then send documents for recognition.

Can you tell me that after recognition of documents, what is the proceedure of finding job?

Are there any recruitment agencies, specially for non-EU doctors?


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## ALKB

eyes1aq said:


> Thank you ALKB for detailed and definite reply. So, first step is to learn German language and then send documents for recognition.
> 
> Can you tell me that after recognition of documents, what is the proceedure of finding job?
> 
> Are there any recruitment agencies, specially for non-EU doctors?


I don't have enough experience regarding the medical field to answer your question comprehensively.

There might be recruitment agencies for non-EEA doctors, but all the non-EEA doctors I have come across (and my experience in that regard is very limited) did not come to Germany on a work permit.

In general, recruiters are a bit of a new thing in Germany and have a somewhat dodgy reputation.

Where are you in your career? Are you a consultant? A GP?

I'd try the adverts in German medical trade journals or contacting hospitals directly.

I know that a lot of rural areas are desperately looking for GP's and are offering quite a few incentives to doctors willing to be a 'country doctor' and staying long term. You'd need excellent German for that, as we face an ageing population in the rural areas and the older generations are unlikely to have learnt English in school at all. You'd also need to be willing to live in a small-ish town, possibly do house calls, etc. Then there is also the fact that the more rural the area gets, the more visibly foreign you will be. In an area where you are literally the only expat, you might face some problems to be accepted in the community.

Good luck!


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## GermanNurse

eyes1aq said:


> Hi,
> 
> I am Pakistani doctor, working in Oman.
> 
> I want to come to Germany to work as a doctor in general practise. However, I don't know what are the job prospects non-EU doctors, esp Pakistani doctors.
> 
> I don't have knowledge of German language, however, I plan to take a language course in Germany. My English, however is very good.
> 
> I want to know how easy foreign doctors can find job after learning German language and passing the test with score at B2 level?
> 
> Also how difficult is German language to learn? How much time a needed normally? Most institutes provide courses of 2 months duration. I wonder if this time is adequate!
> 
> Thanks


Hey Eyes ... first of all I wish you all the best with your plan to move to Germany.
I´m a german nurse and I work with lot´s of doctors from foreign countries. 
Just do yourself a huge favour and learn to speak a good level of german. It is so hard for the docs and for the patients too ... the difficulties to understand each other are often enough very big and can be very frustrating for both. 
Since I´m German I can´t tell how hard it is to learn the language  but I wish you alle the best


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## aimanali

Hello ALKB and German Nurse.
My name is Dr. Aiman Ali and i have done MBBS from Khyber Medical College, Peshawar,Pakistan.Our college is recognized by the WHO,Avicenna and EFCFMG.
I want to pursue my further studies in Germany, I am looking for a specialization Training (Residency) in Germany. Can anyone help me with the Process, I have started learning German Language Level A1 currently and i will learn it till B2 Level. 
I want to know in which states of Germany it will be easier for A non-EU doctor to get his training / degree recognized ?
how can i get Temporary or Permanent License 
what is the first step to start from ?
Please post or PM me if you think you can help.


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## ALKB

aimanali said:


> Hello ALKB and German Nurse.
> My name is Dr. Aiman Ali and i have done MBBS from Khyber Medical College, Peshawar,Pakistan.Our college is recognized by the WHO,Avicenna and EFCFMG.
> I want to pursue my further studies in Germany, I am looking for a specialization Training (Residency) in Germany. Can anyone help me with the Process, I have started learning German Language Level A1 currently and i will learn it till B2 Level.
> I want to know in which states of Germany it will be easier for A non-EU doctor to get his training / degree recognized ?
> how can i get Temporary or Permanent License
> what is the first step to start from ?
> Please post or PM me if you think you can help.


Learning German is a very good first step.

Before doing anything do get your degree recognised:

Home

Germans like official paperwork!

Where to apply after that depends on what you want to specialise in. As a doctor you don't need to go through the resident labour market test, at least.


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## aimanali

Thank you ALKB, 
I want to specialize in Internal Medicine.

I am learning German Language from the Goethe Institut.
Incase they ask us to give Equivalency Test, So i wish i could prepare myself for the equivalency exam right now.
Do you have any info what are the books/lectures etc which i need to study..
Also i ll be thankful if you could help me in finding what are the course books taught in German Medical Colleges ,
like for General Medicine we study Davidson,CMDT,Oxford.. So what are the books taught in German Medical Schools for Medicine , Surgery,Gyne/obs,ENT,Eye,Pharmacology and Patho??


Also i ll be thankful if anyone can tell me about how to prepare for the Equivalency exam "Gleichwertigkeitprüfung"..


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## GermanNurse

aimanali said:


> Hello ALKB and German Nurse.
> My name is Dr. Aiman Ali and i have done MBBS from Khyber Medical College, Peshawar,Pakistan.Our college is recognized by the WHO,Avicenna and EFCFMG.
> I want to pursue my further studies in Germany, I am looking for a specialization Training (Residency) in Germany. Can anyone help me with the Process, I have started learning German Language Level A1 currently and i will learn it till B2 Level.
> I want to know in which states of Germany it will be easier for A non-EU doctor to get his training / degree recognized ?
> how can i get Temporary or Permanent License
> what is the first step to start from ?
> Please post or PM me if you think you can help.


Hey Aiman Ali, to be honest I don´t know in which state it will be easier to get your training / degree recognized ...
Maybe you should check out the different webpages from the Ärztekammer (medical association) ... every state has his own Ärztekammer (just goggle it) and you may find more information there. 
And here is another link BMBF › Education › Recognition of Foreign Professional Qualifications maybe that can help to find answers to your questions.
What exactly is level B2 german? 
Best of luck for you.
Cheers, GermanNurse


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## aimanali

Thank you so much German Nurse for the kind information.


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## ALKB

aimanali said:


> Thank you ALKB,
> I want to specialize in Internal Medicine.
> 
> I am learning German Language from the Goethe Institut.
> Incase they ask us to give Equivalency Test, So i wish i could prepare myself for the equivalency exam right now.
> Do you have any info what are the books/lectures etc which i need to study..
> Also i ll be thankful if you could help me in finding what are the course books taught in German Medical Colleges ,
> like for General Medicine we study Davidson,CMDT,Oxford.. So what are the books taught in German Medical Schools for Medicine , Surgery,Gyne/obs,ENT,Eye,Pharmacology and Patho??
> 
> 
> Also i ll be thankful if anyone can tell me about how to prepare for the Equivalency exam "Gleichwertigkeitprüfung"..



I found a forum in which non-EU doctors discuss the Gleichwertigkeitsprüfung and the general consensus seems to be that the tricky part is that there is no book list or specific material to study. The exam seems to be much more individual than the UK PLAB for instance.

Maybe this link will help?

Medizinlehrbuecher.de | Medizinbuch.net > Lehrbuecher fuer Medizinstudenten - Medizinlehrbuecher - Rezensionen - Testberichte - Empfehlungen - Finde dein Lehrbuch fuers Medizinstudium - Buecher - Lehrbuch fuer Medizin - Medizinlehrbuch - Probekapitel

or more specifically here for internal medicine:

Medizinlehrbuecher.de > Innere Medizin

If you google 'gleichwertigkeitsprüfung vorbereitung' you get all sorts of information that could be worth looking through. As my medical experience is nearly non-existent I can't really pass judgement.

This link:

Gleichwertigkeitsprüfung | Ausländische Ärzte | Approbation | Deutsche Approbation | 2012 | Berufsanerkennungsgesetz | Bundesärzteordnung

suggests that a B2 level of German might not be enough for landing a job since the laws have been relaxed.


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## aimanali

*thanks ALKB*

Actually i am very ambitious and i will work hard till the end to pass this 
Gleichwertigkeitsprüfung test.

I want to take this test as DO or DIE. coz i lovE Germany and i want to work there as a doctor at any cost.For UK,US,Australlia and Ireland, we can easily pass their test.But i just want to get the pattern of this test 
Gleichwertigkeitsprüfung ..

I want to know whether its ORAL test Or Written Test. and what books should be needed to study for this test. if German B2 is not sufficient then i will study German Language till i Get C2 Certificate , as i know i am good in learning all this .But em badly confused that which sort of test will they take from us.


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## ALKB

aimanali said:


> Actually i am very ambitious and i will work hard till the end to pass this
> Gleichwertigkeitsprüfung test.
> 
> I want to take this test as DO or DIE. coz i lovE Germany and i want to work there as a doctor at any cost.For UK,US,Australlia and Ireland, we can easily pass their test.But i just want to get the pattern of this test
> Gleichwertigkeitsprüfung ..
> 
> I want to know whether its ORAL test Or Written Test. and what books should be needed to study for this test. if German B2 is not sufficient then i will study German Language till i Get C2 Certificate , as i know i am good in learning all this .But em badly confused that which sort of test will they take from us.


It seems that the process is like this: 

-find out whether your degree is viewed as equivalent to a German degree (most probably not but better to get in writing what you need to do)

-get a job/employer to sponsor you

-you can then get a provisional visa/work permit to work as a doctor but there are limitations as to what you will be allowed to do and there has to be supervision.

- within a certain time frame you then have to pass the Gleichwertigkeitsprüfung (I read somewhere that most doctors take the exam after 6 to 12 months)

- the exam is oral (about 45 minutes I've read) and varies from province to province. Internal medicine and surgery are always part of the exam. 

I don't think it's allowed to link to other forums or blogs, so please use your google-fu - I found them easily. I think it's better to talk to fellow doctors who went through the process 

By the way, is there a Goethe Institut in Peshawar? I only knew about the ones in Karachi and Lahore. Always found it bizarre that there was none in Islamabad...


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## aimanali

There is no goethe at pesh, its in lahore nd kharachi only.


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## aimanali

Thnks alkb for detailed info, thank you very much. i read all that on google too but i want to know hw can i verify if we have to give this test or not, mbbs from khyber medical college is recognized by the WHO,ECFMG,AVICENNA,GMC,Ireland. But i dnt knw whethr the germans ll accept or not


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## ALKB

aimanali said:


> Thnks alkb for detailed info, thank you very much. i read all that on google too but i want to know hw can i verify if we have to give this test or not, mbbs from khyber medical college is recognized by the WHO,ECFMG,AVICENNA,GMC,Ireland. But i dnt knw whethr the germans ll accept or not



Germany is notorious for being reluctant to recognise anything that's not German.

You need to apply for recognition as outlined here:

Doctor of Medicine

Calling this number might be helpful:

Hotline


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## Nikaaa

*International Recruiting from medical doctors- Survey*



aimanali said:


> Hello ALKB and German Nurse.
> My name is Dr. Aiman Ali and i have done MBBS from Khyber Medical College, Peshawar,Pakistan.Our college is recognized by the WHO,Avicenna and EFCFMG.
> I want to pursue my further studies in Germany, I am looking for a specialization Training (Residency) in Germany. Can anyone help me with the Process, I have started learning German Language Level A1 currently and i will learn it till B2 Level.
> I want to know in which states of Germany it will be easier for A non-EU doctor to get his training / degree recognized ?
> how can i get Temporary or Permanent License
> what is the first step to start from ?
> Please post or PM me if you think you can help.


Hallo aimanali,

There is a Facebook page called Medical Onboarding Germany, i´m pretty sure you will find the answers to all your questions there. 

I hope it can help you too :fingerscrossed:

Have a nice weekend!


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## dr.anum

*Doc*

hi I am graduate of DuHS Karachi.
I am working as FCPS part 2 trainee in Karachi..
I want to know about the procedure to move Germany and is MRCOG acceptable there.. kindly help me in this matter thanks


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## maxmohd

aimanali said:


> Hello ALKB and German Nurse.
> My name is Dr. Aiman Ali and i have done MBBS from Khyber Medical College, Peshawar,Pakistan.Our college is recognized by the WHO,Avicenna and EFCFMG.
> I want to pursue my further studies in Germany, I am looking for a specialization Training (Residency) in Germany. Can anyone help me with the Process, I have started learning German Language Level A1 currently and i will learn it till B2 Level.
> I want to know in which states of Germany it will be easier for A non-EU doctor to get his training / degree recognized ?
> how can i get Temporary or Permanent License
> what is the first step to start from ?
> Please post or PM me if you think you can help.


hey Aiman. you got anything on it? look like we are in the same boat


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## haneef

hi aiman iam dr. haneef and iam also a graduate of khyber medical college. iam also intrested to go to germany for specializaton. i have satrted learning garman language in Numl peshawar.u can contact can contact me on facebook.if u have found some information plz tell me.


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