# Realistic or head in the sand ???



## Suenneil (Feb 17, 2009)

I couldnt find the older thread which I think was "more bad news for spains economy ..." or something similar!

I just remember that there were quite a few people who believed the Spanish government had their heads in the sand regarding the "real" economic climate in spain at the moment (or maybe their heads somewhere far less pleasant than in the sand!!!) ....

This statement in the sur seems to give the impression they are seeing the end of the worst of it! which surprised me !.... but even with that the unemployment issue is still a massive massive problem ... interesting to read the final comment in the article as to how Spain has contributed to what seems like more than its fair share of the total EU unemployment figures!!

Spanish minister says economy has bottomed. Surinenglish.com


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

I'm no expert, but I always get the impression that Spain tends to look on the bright side of it all, rightly or wrongly, but it does tend to breed a feeling of optimism, which is nice.

On the other hand I believe that the UK is the opposite and paints a very black picture of everything, which tends to breed pesimism.

The reality is probably somewhere in the middle, but I think that the way the media portrays things can sometimes almost become self-prophetic. In which case Spains way is the better way!!!!

Jo xxx


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## Chica (Mar 23, 2009)

jojo said:


> I'm no expert, but I always get the impression that Spain tends to look on the bright side of it all, rightly or wrongly, but it does tend to breed a feeling of optimism, which is nice.
> 
> On the other hand I believe that the UK is the opposite and paints a very black picture of everything, which tends to breed pesimism.
> 
> ...


I totally agree with you Jo. I think the UK paints the worst pictiures of all.


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## Suenneil (Feb 17, 2009)

jojo said:


> I'm no expert, but I always get the impression that Spain tends to look on the bright side of it all, rightly or wrongly, but it does tend to breed a feeling of optimism, which is nice.
> 
> On the other hand I believe that the UK is the opposite and paints a very black picture of everything, which tends to breed pesimism.
> 
> ...



Hi jo .... I agree and would always welcome the optimistic approach to everything in life where possible! and you will see I have written in the past many times about the pessimistic approach of the British press!! lol

Sometimes though when something as big as the economic crisis is all around us - its helpful to have the honesty element ..... and a balanced view - rather than the "political spin" they want us to hear - I truly hope the Spanish economy has "bottomed out" and they only way is up!! somehow I dont think that is the case just yet .... but I will keep smiling non the less !! :cheer2::cheer2::cheer2::cheer2:


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## SunnySpain (Jul 30, 2008)

Suenneil said:


> I couldnt find the older thread which I think was "more bad news for spains economy ..." or something similar!
> 
> I just remember that there were quite a few people who believed the Spanish government had their heads in the sand regarding the "real" economic climate in spain at the moment (or maybe their heads somewhere far less pleasant than in the sand!!!) ....
> 
> This statement in the sur seems to give the impression they are seeing the end of the worst of it! which surprised me !....



The Spanish econmy is on its elbows and knees and should really be kicked out of the Eurozone as it is not meeting the economic criteria that exists

Dave


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## Suenneil (Feb 17, 2009)

Chica said:


> I totally agree with you Jo. I think the UK paints the worst pictiures of all.


I agree they do too Chica ..... but that wasnt the point of the article really, or my original comment. I wasnt trying to make any comparisons between the UK or spain ...... just Spain v Spain ....... are they being honest and upfront about how it really is - or do they actually know how good or bad it really is!! ........... I live here now so only really interested on how things are at "home" ..... what happens in the UK is their own business and not mine anymore!

Sue x


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Suenneil said:


> I agree they do too Chica ..... but that wasnt the point of the article really, or my original comment. I wasnt trying to make any comparisons between the UK or spain ...... just Spain v Spain ....... are they being honest and upfront about how it really is - or do they actually know how good or bad it really is!! ........... I live here now so only really interested on how things are at "home" ..... what happens in the UK is their own business and not mine anymore!
> 
> Sue x


yes I know what you're saying, Spain tends to look on the bright side and with the economy as it is, IMO its gotta be so difficult to actually know whats happening, there are so many sides to it all. So I wouldnt say that they've "got their heads in the sand" as such, but I dont think they're giving us a full picture... and that was my point really, they're optimistic, which breeds optimism and hopefull will be self prophetic... if they say it enough, it will happen!!!!!!!


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

The one thing I am struggling with is this talk about tourism being on the decline. Having been to Malaga airport a few times recently and living within view of it, its absolutly heaving! I find it hard to believe numbers are down. Indeed, the costas around my area are also heaving... I cant see how they are down by much if at all!!???

Jo xxx


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## Chica (Mar 23, 2009)

SunnySpain said:


> The Spanish econmy is on its elbows and knees and should really be kicked out of the Eurozone as it is not meeting the economic criteria that exists
> 
> Dave


How British of you!!!!!! Of course we could take the opposite view that Spain should be helped by other Europian member states to improve it's economy and introduce greater diversity in it's manufacturing base thereby helping it to increase it's wealth and financial stability. This, of course, would help Europe as an entity to become stronger and economically more successful, thereby, helping the UK indirectly. But of course it's much easier to blame Spain for the woes of Europe.

(MOH words)


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## SteveHall (Oct 17, 2008)

Suenneil said:


> I couldnt find the older thread which I think was "more bad news for spains economy ..." or something similar!
> 
> I just remember that there were quite a few people who believed the Spanish government had their heads in the sand regarding the "real" economic climate in spain at the moment (or maybe their heads somewhere far less pleasant than in the sand!!!) ....
> 
> (


ABSOLUTE head in the sands (should be head in the hands!) statements. The banks say there are at least 2 more years to go before we bottom out here and with house sales 48% down year on year, with sales still weak and with prices still crashing I see no light at the end of the tunnel yet. 

With one million plus empty houses, there is no reason whatsoever to build more so the construction industry (a MAJOR employer) will remain on its knees for a considerable period of time. Goodness knows what car sales would have been without the 2K initiative. How she can say that 5 million unemployed does not figure in their forecasts is completely beyond me. 

The ONLY thing she could say that I would believe is that "Unemployment is completely beyond our control" and "We can only hope and pray that unemployment does not deteriorate". 

I fully acknowledge that the Spanish government are aware of what is going on and are no more keen on this mess than anybody else. What I do not accept is that they are in any kind of "command" of the situation.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

SteveHall said:


> ABSOLUTE head in the sands (should be head in the hands!) statements. The banks say there are at least 2 more years to go before we bottom out here and with house sales 48% down year on year, with sales still weak and with prices still crashing I see no light at the end of the tunnel yet.
> 
> With one million plus empty houses, there is no reason whatsoever to build more so the construction industry (a MAJOR employer) will remain on its knees for a considerable period of time. Goodness knows what car sales would have been without the 2K initiative. How she can say that 5 million unemployed does not figure in their forecasts is completely beyond me.
> 
> ...


Are you sure you dont work for the British media Stevie??? That is waaaay too depressing!

Jo xx


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## SteveHall (Oct 17, 2008)

Depressing - sadly, yes. 

Reality - sadly, yes 

Spain's problems lie in its reliance on construction/tourism. It was its strength in the boom years and I am sure it will come back stronger than ever .........but just not yet. We can only hope that the government (PP or PSOE) learns the lessons from this crisis. I have greater hope here than that the UK one would!


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## SteveHall (Oct 17, 2008)

jojo said:


> The one thing I am struggling with is this talk about tourism being on the decline. Having been to Malaga airport a few times recently and living within view of it, its absolutly heaving! I find it hard to believe numbers are down. Indeed, the costas around my area are also heaving... I cant see how they are down by much if at all!!???
> 
> Jo xxx


Flights are 12% down and visitors are 8% down. (The figures from UK/Eire are even worse) This week Málaga has lost its prestigious NYC flight with Delta. 

As you know I have been at the airport most days for the past fortnight - So, heaving? Probably because of the chaos caused by the roadworks, improvements to the railway service and terminal renovations etc.

I was in a bar on Calahonda that closed on Saturday afternoon for 6 hours as there was nobody in it and the owner saw no reason to stay open! 

Spain WILL be back - I am 100% convinced of that - BUT it will bounce AFTER confidence returns in the important UK/Eire and Scandi markets for tourists and home-buyers alike.


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## littleredrooster (Aug 3, 2008)

The Spanish recession could last quite a while yet, however the UK should come out of it much earlier.
I believe that is also how it worked out last time.


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## Suenneil (Feb 17, 2009)

SteveHall said:


> Flights are 12% down and visitors are 8% down. (The figures from UK/Eire are even worse) This week Málaga has lost its prestigious NYC flight with Delta.
> 
> As you know I have been at the airport most days for the past fortnight - So, heaving? Probably because of the chaos caused by the roadworks and terninal renovations etc.
> 
> ...


I flew over to the UK two weeks ago on business - it was the first time ever I have flown into Gatwick from Malaga on a plane that was only 75/80% occupied ...... outward and return journey ... I had a row of 3 seats to myself both ways .... a monarch flight. I know the real summer season hasnt yet got into full swing but to see so many empty seats on a Gatwick flight was a new one on me - and I have travelled back and forth a lot over the past 5 years.

Sue x


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Suenneil said:


> I flew over to the UK two weeks ago on business - it was the first time ever I have flown into Gatwick from Malaga on a plane that was only 75/80% occupied ...... outward and return journey ... I had a row of 3 seats to myself both ways .... a monarch flight. I know the real summer season hasnt yet got into full swing but to see so many empty seats on a Gatwick flight was a new one on me - and I have travelled back and forth a lot over the past 5 years.
> 
> Sue x



My husband says the exact opposite!! he's been flying back and forth on a weekly basis and is sick to death of full planes, eventho they've started using bigger planes now (they were using 320s now 767) He does gatwick, malaga, gatwick, usually on Monarch

Jo xxx


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## Suenneil (Feb 17, 2009)

jojo said:


> My husband says the exact opposite!! he's been flying back and forth on a weekly basis and is sick to death of full planes, eventho they've started using bigger planes now (they were using 320s now 767) He does gatwick, malaga, gatwick, usually on Monarch
> 
> Jo xxx


How bizarre! I flew out on a Saturday came back Tuesday ... never had so much room and so much attention from the staff!! was actually quite lovely ! lane:


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Suenneil said:


> How bizarre! I flew out on a Saturday came back Tuesday ... never had so much room and so much attention from the staff!! was actually quite lovely ! lane:


My husband, who is sitting next to me (and being nosy!!!) says this "there are a minimum of 13 flights a day coming into Malaga from Gatwick alone by five different carriers, this has increased from last year"... he doesnt know by how much, but it has increased!

He says most of his flights are full, altho some are probably the same as you experienced, 75 -80%, but this is negated by the fact that the flight numbers and plane sizes have increased?????????

He says that in his opinion, the number of people coming in and out of Malaga from Gatwick has increased significantly. But of course, thats not what the reports and studies say, so make of that what you will ???LOL!!!

Jo xxx


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## Suenneil (Feb 17, 2009)

jojo said:


> My husband, who is sitting next to me (and being nosy!!!) says this "there are a minimum of 13 flights a day coming into Malaga from Gatwick alone by five different carriers, this has increased from last year"... he doesnt know by how much, but it has increased!
> 
> He says most of his flights are full, altho some are probably the same as you experienced, 75 -80%, but this is negated by the fact that the flight numbers and plane sizes have increased?????????
> 
> ...


As is usually the case Jo we comment led by our own experiences ....... the other thing I also notice was when I went to Gatwick to check in for the flight back home to spain.. Because its usually such a nightmare I arrived 2.5 hours in advance of the flight - but went through security in less than 10 minutes! so then had far too much time in the terminal without being able to have a *** !!!!! trust me for a smoker and someone who hates flying that was tough for me!! lol

Maybe I just flew over there on a quiet weekend !!!!


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## SunnySpain (Jul 30, 2008)

SteveHall said:


> Spain WILL be back - I am 100% convinced of that - BUT it will bounce AFTER confidence returns in the important UK/Eire and Scandi markets for tourists and home-buyers alike.


Exactly my thoughts and I will add that such reports like the one Sue found it pure fabrication and its merely an attempt to get wanna be expats here to buy some of the 000's of empty properties in order to kick-start the housing market.

Not going to happen for a long time yet, in my opinion.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

SteveHall said:


> Flights are 12% down and visitors are 8% down. (The figures from UK/Eire are even worse) This week Málaga has lost its prestigious NYC flight with Delta.
> 
> As you know I have been at the airport most days for the past fortnight - So, heaving? Probably because of the chaos caused by the roadworks, improvements to the railway service and terminal renovations etc.


I simply havent seen it!! yes the construction work there is a nuisance, but I pick up and drop off my OH twice a week at the moment and I refuse to believe its quieter than last year. I very rarely use the car park at the airport, but I had need to the other day and that was full too, lost the bloody car when I'd finished cos I couldnt remember where I'd parked it!!!!!!

Jo xxx


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## SteveHall (Oct 17, 2008)

http://www.aena.es/csee/ccurl/05.Estadisticas_Mayo_2009.pdf 

May figures are now out and they show a worrying 9,1% drop in passengers through Málaga and even more worrying 13%+ decrease in the number of aircraft movements. 

We WILL be back!


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

SteveHall said:


> http://www.aena.es/csee/ccurl/05.Estadisticas_Mayo_2009.pdf
> 
> May figures are now out and they show a worrying 9,1% drop in passengers through Málaga and even more worrying 13%+ decrease in the number of aircraft movements.
> 
> We WILL be back!


The figures simply dont reflect what I have seen !! 

Jo xxx


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## SunnySpain (Jul 30, 2008)

jojo said:


> The figures simply dont reflect what I have seen !!
> 
> Jo xxx



What have you seen Jo ?


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

SunnySpain said:


> What have you seen Jo ?



A mega busy/busier than last year Málaga Airport Dave!!!!

Jo xxx


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## SunnySpain (Jul 30, 2008)

jojo said:


> A mega busy/busier than last year Málaga Airport Dave!!!!
> 
> Jo xxx


What you mean the queues of traffic to enter the airport ?


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## crookesey (May 22, 2008)

jojo said:


> I simply havent seen it!! yes the construction work there is a nuisance, but I pick up and drop off my OH twice a week at the moment and I refuse to believe its quieter than last year. I very rarely use the car park at the airport, but I had need to the other day and that was full too, lost the bloody car when I'd finished cos I couldnt remember where I'd parked it!!!!!!
> 
> Jo xxx


When we were flying back in May, our flight was delayed and it's eventual passengers were the only folk in Malaga departure lounge.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

SunnySpain said:


> What you mean the queues of traffic to enter the airport ?



NO!! thats cos of the building work!!! my beloved OH is totally convinced that its infinately busier than last year, more flights, bigger planes and new flight carriers and destinations!!

Jo xxxx


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## SunnySpain (Jul 30, 2008)

jojo said:


> NO!! thats cos of the building work!!! my beloved OH is totally convinced that its infinately busier than last year, more flights, bigger planes and new flight carriers and destinations!!
> 
> Jo xxxx



He could be right you know ......lane:


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## Tallulah (Feb 16, 2009)

It's extremely difficult to get any unbiased view from the Spanish media - be it TV or newspapers - each is generally aligned to a particular political party - PP/PSOE - and there is no free speech as such. You will have to research all sources and judge for yourself amongst the propaganda. The economy certainly hasn't bottomed out and has much further to go - it's a known fact. But hey, a little talking it up and positivity never hurt anyone's dreams, did it??


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## SteveHall (Oct 17, 2008)

An article from ThinkSpain that gives some rather sad views.

Holidaymakers from overseas falling in number 
By: thinkSPAIN , Tuesday, June 23, 2009 


FOREIGN tourists’ visits to Spain have fallen in number for the twelfth month running, reveal worrying figures from the Ministry of Industry.

Between January and May, 18.34 million holidaymakers came from abroad, a fall of 11.8 per cent on last year’s 21.6 million.

Of this May’s total of five million foreign visitors, 62 per cent – 3.1 million – were from the UK, Germany and France.

British visitors have declined in number by a staggering 17.8 per cent in the past year.

Similar figures were seen for those from Germany and France, and a drop of between nine and 12 per cent was recorded in tourists from the Netherlands, Portugal and Italy.

One of the worst-hit regions is the Comunidad Valenciana with a fall of 19 per cent, followed by the Canary Islands (14.5 per cent), Andalucía (12.2 per cent) and the Balearic Islands (8.5 per cent).

The only region that has seen a slight increase – 0.3 per cent – in the number of foreign holidaymakers is the Comunidad de Madrid.

Overall, despite recording a drop of 11.2 per cent in visitor numbers, Catalunya has seen the most tourists from abroad in the first five months of this year with 4.62 million people heading to the north-eastern region.

The ministry’s figures show that 71 per cent of holidaymakers booked their own accommodation and flights, without opting for package deals.

Just under two-thirds chose to stay in hotels rather than holiday apartments or villas.



** To put some meat on the bones. The high French/Catalonia figures can partially be apportioned to the French who simply drive over the border into the NE of Spain.


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## rowlandsbb (Jun 30, 2007)

SteveHall said:


> An article from ThinkSpain that gives some rather sad views.
> 
> Holidaymakers from overseas falling in number
> By: thinkSPAIN , Tuesday, June 23, 2009
> ...


Because of all this negative press and forecasts the car hire firms do not appear to have upgraded their fleets and perhaps even reduced them, so that for July and August there appears to be a shortage
Tried to book a people carrier yesterday for first 2 weeks in August and no luck
Also because of this the price has gone up because demand has in recent weeks picked up

Should have booked weeks ago !!!...and perhaps avoided the high prices!...a Clio with A/C for 2 weeks @ 510 € is the most expensive price I have ever had to pay via internet!!

And with the £ improving there may be a late rush to go to Spain.....certainly this improvement has increased the number of enquiries to buy in Spain!

But I would suggest anyone going this year should book now to make sure that you get one


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

rowlandsbb said:


> Because of all this negative press and forecasts the car hire firms do not appear to have upgraded their fleets and perhaps even reduced them, so that for July and August there appears to be a shortage
> Tried to book a people carrier yesterday for first 2 weeks in August and no luck
> Also because of this the price has gone up because demand has in recent weeks picked up
> 
> ...



I second that! I've found the same thing!

Jo xxx


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## nicola67 (Jun 21, 2009)

I do hope things improve over in spain... as it looks like I may have to put my plans on hold for a couple of more years !!! But I must say.... Everyone I speak to say they are not holidaying in Europe this year !!! Turkey, and Egypt seem to be the most popular destinations!! and to be quite honest i couldnt beleive how much more expensive things have gone over in the Algarve.. (came back 3 weeks ago) compared to two years ago! I mean everthing was just so expensive! For two people... we spent £1300 on eating out and what not for 6 days! and that was taking it easy!! Your evening meal for two would cost in the region of £45 just for the food! and that was nothing fancy or anything like that ... 1 pint of larger and half a larger in the local bar was £9.. and Im by no means tight or anything, infact the total opposite... but thats what i call expensive!!! I do hope things change real soon!!!!
Regards
Nicola x


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

nicola67 said:


> I do hope things improve over in spain... as it looks like I may have to put my plans on hold for a couple of more years !!! But I must say.... Everyone I speak to say they are not holidaying in Europe this year !!! Turkey, and Egypt seem to be the most popular destinations!! and to be quite honest i couldnt beleive how much more expensive things have gone over in the Algarve.. (came back 3 weeks ago) compared to two years ago! I mean everthing was just so expensive! For two people... we spent £1300 on eating out and what not for 6 days! and that was taking it easy!! Your evening meal for two would cost in the region of £45 just for the food! and that was nothing fancy or anything like that ... 1 pint of larger and half a larger in the local bar was £9.. and Im by no means tight or anything, infact the total opposite... but thats what i call expensive!!! I do hope things change real soon!!!!
> Regards
> Nicola x



yes, prices have gone up in spain, but they are always even more expensive in the tourist regions. I went to Fuengirola today and a glass of Diet Coke was 1,90€ compared to my village where its 0.90€

Jo xxx


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## SteveHall (Oct 17, 2008)

It would have cost a lot more if I had scrounged a coffee!!


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

SteveHall said:


> It would have cost a lot more if I had scrounged a coffee!!


... and your agua con gas!! yes, I would have had to take out a mortgage if you'd been there!!! It was really misty down there this morning BTW, could barely see the sea from the prom!

jo xxx


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## SteveHall (Oct 17, 2008)

British Airways have today announced the suspension of all Alicante flights for Winter 2009 AND Summer 2010


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