# Wills...need one or not



## JayBee1

We are a Canadian married couple on a retirement visa in France. We have a will in Canada. We own property in Canada and have no property in France nor do we earn any income in France. 
Does anyone know *when* we have to have an international will? I'm understanding it to be in our 6th year when we can apply for a 5year residency card.

Thank you


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## Bevdeforges

My understanding of how these things work is that your estate will be processed under the laws of the country in which you are resident on the date of your death. You don't need a 5-year residence card to be considered "resident" in France for these purposes. You're "tax resident" if you have your primary home in France.

Basically, what you can do is to prepare a French will that incorporates your Canadian will as your "last will and testament." This will allow your estate to be divided up as specified in your Canadian will. (But the inheritance taxes will be assessed at the French tax rates, based on who receives how much and their relationship to you.)

The one big exception to all of this is that of "real property" (i.e. land and buildings) which are treated under the inheritance laws of the state/country in which the property is located.


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## JayBee1

Bevdeforges said:


> My understanding of how these things work is that your estate will be processed under the laws of the country in which you are resident on the date of your death. You don't need a 5-year residence card to be considered "resident" in France for these purposes. You're "tax resident" if you have your primary home in France.
> 
> Basically, what you can do is to prepare a French will that incorporates your Canadian will as your "last will and testament." This will allow your estate to be divided up as specified in your Canadian will. (But the inheritance taxes will be assessed at the French tax rates, based on who receives how much and their relationship to you.)
> 
> The one big exception to all of this is that of "real property" (i.e. land and buildings) which are treated under the inheritance laws of the state/country in which the property is located.


Thanks Bev. I will need to look into this sooner then I thought.


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## JayBee1

Bevdeforges said:


> My understanding of how these things work is that your estate will be processed under the laws of the country in which you are resident on the date of your death. You don't need a 5-year residence card to be considered "resident" in France for these purposes. You're "tax resident" if you have your primary home in France.
> 
> Basically, what you can do is to prepare a French will that incorporates your Canadian will as your "last will and testament." This will allow your estate to be divided up as specified in your Canadian will. (But the inheritance taxes will be assessed at the French tax rates, based on who receives how much and their relationship to you.)
> 
> The one big exception to all of this is that of "real property" (i.e. land and buildings) which are treated under the inheritance laws of the state/country in which the property is located.


Even if all our assets are in Canada?


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## Crabtree

Do you own a car?Do you have a bank account in France?Furniture in your house? Clothes? Jewellery? All these things are property.Not real property but property never the less.If you die in France then a notaire is required to deal with your estate.Therefore I would suggest that you go and see a notaire local to you.They will advise on the best way to proceed especially on the French Inheritance law and taxation and how to achieve what you want otherwise you may end up with an entangled situation.It may be possible to write a French will declaring that you want your property dealt with in accordance with Canadian Inheritance rules but note that inheritance tax will be under French law.Once you have done this and got your wills written make sure any NOK are told who the notaire is and it is always worth having a pack with details of bank accounts utilities etc to make it easier for the NOK
And speaking of tax have you been submitting a french tax return each year as if the fisc find out that someone has died and they cannot find tax returns from you they could hold up finalisation of the estate.
So yes make a will do it ASAP


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## JayBee1

Crabtree said:


> Do you own a car?Do you have a bank account in France?Furniture in your house? Clothes? Jewellery? All these things are property.Not real property but property never the less.If you die in France then a notaire is required to deal with your estate.Therefore I would suggest that you go and see a notaire local to you.They will advise on the best way to proceed especially on the French Inheritance law and taxation and how to achieve what you want otherwise you may end up with an entangled situation.It may be possible to write a French will declaring that you want your property dealt with in accordance with Canadian Inheritance rules but note that inheritance tax will be under French law.Once you have done this and got your wills written make sure any NOK are told who the notaire is and it is always worth having a pack with details of bank accounts utilities etc to make it easier for the NOK
> And speaking of tax have you been submitting a french tax return each year as if the fisc find out that someone has died and they cannot find tax returns from you they could hold up finalisation of the estate.
> So yes make a will do it ASAP


Thanks Crabtree. We have no car, are renting a fully furnished apartment and have limited clothes (minimalists!) I have picked out a notaire and will have them on speed dial tomorrow! We have tax numbers and celebrated our first year in France today! We have Canadian wills with a kit for the executors. 
Thanks again!


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## Harry Moles

If you have substantial Canadian assets and your beneficiaries are in Canada and you do not wish for them to pay French inheritance taxes (for those who aren't aware, Canada does not have any inheritance or gift taxes) or deal with various legalities overseas then you might want to look into creating a trust in Canada, so that your estate does not need to go through the probate process or whatever the French equivalent is. If there's a reasonable amount of money at stake (over a million, for the sake of argument) then it's worth getting some legal advice in both countries.


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## JayBee1

Harry Moles said:


> If you have substantial Canadian assets and your beneficiaries are in Canada and you do not wish for them to pay French inheritance taxes (for those who aren't aware, Canada does not have any inheritance or gift taxes) or deal with various legalities overseas then you might want to look into creating a trust in Canada, so that your estate does not need to go through the probate process or whatever the French equivalent is. If there's a reasonable amount of money at stake (over a million, for the sake of argument) then it's worth getting some legal advice in both countries.


Thank you. Appreciate the information. 
Will look into both.


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## RJM2023

I'm am only beginning my research on this as we have a US Living Trust. But it seems that the french system does not recognise foreign trusts.

French treatment of foreign trusts (PDF)

It is something I would (and will ) take professional advice on.


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## JayBee1

Update: Because we have no real property in France, we went to a notaire and wrote out that we would like our Wills treated as per our request in Canada. Basically after all the taxes are taken, our beneficiaries will get the remainder as we originally wished. If we didn't have this document, our estate would be treated under France rules...which is so different than what we wished.


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