# Considering Tepoztlan - would love other suggestions!



## genab (Jul 19, 2020)

Hello! My husband and I have always wanted to live abroad (digital nomads), and we are starting to think about it more seriously during this garbage fire of a year. In the next few years (after travel becomes advisable again, obviously) we'd like to start taking some exploratory trips down south. 

We'd considered Ecuador (we both speak Spanish pretty well, and would like to be fluent), but are drawn to being a bit closer to the US for the necessary trips back. We may also split our time for a few years, which makes the proximity of mexico even more alluring. 

That said, we're drawn to Tepotzlan because it ticks a lot of our boxes. However, with the small size of the town, and the growing influx of wealthy expats and Mexico City weekenders, we do worry that real estate may be hard to find or out of reach by the time we're ready to move. I'd love a few other ideas from you experts on places we could check out that might be similar. 

Here are some things that we love about that area that are important to us:

- Cooler weather compared to the coasts. We love to garden, hike, be outside and not be a disgusting sweaty mess. The year round 70-80 in the central mountain area really calls to us.

- Lush landscape. I love a desert, but honestly, lots of beautiful greenery is ideal. I'm from the PNW, so what can I say - I like plants. And don't really mind rain.

- Near-ish to hospitals/airport. I'm a homebody. I don't need to be in a big town for daily stuff, but should we need it, I want to be able to get there.

Those are the main points. I'd love to hear what you all recommend!


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## surabi (Jan 1, 2017)

You aren't going to get lush greenery in a central mountain area. They tend to be dry and dusty, but of course you can create a lush garden as long as you have water. And you won't get year round 70-80. Central highlands get cold at night in the winter. 
Lake Chapala area might be somewhere for you to check out- there are several municipalities there- Ajijic is very ******-ized and not that cheap, but there are smaller towns around that are more Mexican and less expensive. It's an hour from Guadalajara, where there's an international airport.
I would suggest that you rent for a year wherever you decide to be, rather than purchase anything. There are a lot of challenges about living in Mexico- it's not for everyone and many people who thought it was their dream place found out differently.
I'm a major gardener myself, and also from the PNW- Vancouver Island. I live in Sayulita, an hour north of Puerto Vallarta. Very lush and green, but you wouldn't like it- hot and humid for about half the year. Don't mind that myself.


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

Elevation is everything when it comes to climate. Guadalajara is at 1500 m, Mexico City at 2200 m, Queretaro at 2000 m. You can pick your minimum temperature by picking your elevation.


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## genab (Jul 19, 2020)

I'm sorry if my list was confusing! By 70s and 80s, I meant daytime temps. Cold nights are totally fine. Even colder days might be ok - we were even looking at the much cooler San Cristobal de Las Casas. Seems both scdlc and Tepoztlan have the green landscape we're looking for, without the super high temps. 

Certainly we aren't going to move permantly without a long stay, but I wondered if there is anywhere else to consider.


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

San Cristobal is a city without much greenry however if you want to live on the outskirts you can have some green space,,Many of the huse in the center have patios versus gardens..however some people I know Have some wonderful green patios filled with flowers.


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## lat19n (Aug 19, 2017)

We don't live in Teopoztlan, but we live very close. If I had a death wish I could probably ride a bicycle there in less than an hour. As it is we get in there maybe 4-6 times a year, mostly for an early weekend breakfast, or a quick visit to the market. 

I wouldn't worry about real-estate costs growing out of control. If anything I envy you. When we purchased our house the peso was much stronger than it is today. Having US dollars today you are in the drivers seat. And - even in terms of Mexican pesos housing is getting cheaper. A lot of affluent Mexicans are a little uncertain of the future.

We live at right around 6,000 ft - a little higher than Teopoztlan. Our house is small'ish but our yard is large'ish. We have coffee, blueberries (finally), blackberries, mangos, lemons, limes, pink and white grapefruit, navel oranges, juice oranges, tangerines, guava, peaches, plums, platanos, avacados (not much fruit) and a pepper tree. That is in addition to a huge tabachine, 2 large weeping willows, several palms, a large 'golden rain' and more. It is a lot of work. Coming from sea level in Florida - I would say this area is 'lush'. When it is dry (half the year) I run the sprinklers a few times a week. We have well water (and solar panels). 

We traveled Mexico for many years before deciding on this area. Some of our original reasons have evolved. We liked that the airport in Mexico City is 1.5-2 hours via bus. Now we don't seem to travel as much. We love visiting Mexico City and now that the second level is compete I can drive in in perhaps 1-1.5 hours (on a Saturday morning). We like that there is a Costco in the area, but with Amazon Prime we can get almost anything delivered to the house in 2 days or less.

Knowing what we know today, if I had it all to do over, I might have a closer look at an area called Lomas de Cocoyoc. It is closer to Cuatla than Teopoztlan but it feels like someone has large plans for that area - and it is very nice. I do not know what exists in that area in terms of hospitals etc.


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## tomwins (Dec 27, 2014)

You seem to have an interest in growing season and temperature. I find WeatherSpark very helpful in comparing climates. Look at this to compare Tepoztlan and Ajijic: https://weatherspark.com/compare/y/...rage-Weather-in-San-Juan-Cosalá-and-Tepoztlán

I've lived in San Juan Cosala for almost five years now. I would consider moving to Tepoztlan. 

From what you have mentioned as your interest, let me observe a few things. We travel A LOT. So proximity to an international airport is important. San Juan Cosala is a little over an hour from GDL and Ajijic is 45 minutes away. Tepoztlan is twice that distance from MEX. I say that but at this moment I am with my mother in Alabama and due to the limited flights I had to fly from GDL to MEX and had a 1 1/2 hour layover. The same will happen when I fly home in ten days. So consider both the proximity to the airport and the options of flights you are given. Even prior to the reduction in flights due to COVID-19 we had to fly to MEX on several occasions since there was not a direct flight from GDL.

From mid-March to mid-June, it is very dry and hot (and getting worse) around Lake Chapala. We have traditionally planned to travel during this time. This year we left the area in March and when travel restrictions hit we were in South America. We ended up coming home to San Juan Cosala and know why we don't like being there during that time of year. It got into the 90s most days and was very, very dry. We welcomed the rains and the cooler temperatures but it seemed slow in coming. As climate change intensifies, who knows how bad it will get. 

Medical care is excellent around Lake Chapala. As we age this is becoming more important. It is affordable and accessible. Several doctors from Guadalajara come to the Lake Chapala area frequently so you have access to world-class medical care. Within the past year it has continued to expand with new hospitals and a heart clinic opening. Dental care is excellent and you can find the most innovative technologies and care if you look.

We are considering moving out of Mexico due to the pathetic response to COVID-19. You may realize that Mexico considers itself the lapdog of the US, though they will never say this - their actions revel it. So while you may find pockets of quality available to those with money, the country is highly divergent in services and education between classes. This became so visible when leadership in many areas echoed stupid things like "The poor are immune." These are now the hotspots of infection and death. These attitudes put everyone, rich and poor, in danger. So we are looking for a country with less disparity between rich and poor. It will NOT be the US since it is not much better than Mexico. We want to be in a place with political, economic, and scientific infrastructure that will weather the next storm better than the US or Mexico.

We followed the recommendation of not buying until we lived somewhere for a year. I don't think you are wanting to buy right away but I would recommend spending time in your top two or three places for a few months before making a purchase.


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## izzenhood (Jun 8, 2013)

You might look into Guanajuato. Elevation is 6600'. It fits your travel and weather specs, plus there are places to hike, but it's not lush. It's hikable off trail; not too brushy.
The streets are steep and will keep you in shape.


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## ojosazules11 (Nov 3, 2013)

We have a home in Tepoztlán. I honestly can’t tell you much about current real estate prices or availability, as I haven’t kept up with that. But it is a wonderful place to live. While the surrounding mountains become more of a golden sere colour during the dry season, when the rains start in late May or June, they turn emerald green, and rivulets turn into streams and become waterfalls cascading down the mountainside. It’s a great area for hiking. Even in the dry season, there is lots of greenery and flowering trees and vines. Colour everywhere.

Unless it’s rush hour or the Monday of a long weekend, it’s generally just about 1 hr 15 minutes from Tepoztlán to the Mexico City Airport (83 km). Tepoztlán is closer to CDMX than Cuernavaca is. And it’s only 20-30 minutes to Cuernavaca, where you can find the big box stores, hospitals, shopping malls, etc.

Weather is about as ideal as anywhere I could imagine. Eternal spring. Chapala has nothing on us, IMHO. There are microclimates based on altitude, so if you like it a little cooler, love a bit higher up the mountainside, and if you want higher, look for a place in the valley. 

As long as you aren’t living right in the very centre of town, you can usually avoid the tourist crowds, which are generally concentrated on weekends and holidays. Even a few blocks away from the very centre of town, you aren’t much affected by these weekend crowds. The rest of the week the town is still quite bustling and vibrant, but without the crowds. While tourism is vital to the economy of the town, Tepoztlán is much more than a tourist town. It is first and foremost a traditional Mexican village rooted in a proud history. Tepoztecos conserve their traditions passed down through generations. I could go on and on, but I’ll stop here.


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## lat19n (Aug 19, 2017)

I guess two people can look at the same thing and see something different. 

We looked at various places in Tepoztlan when we were house hunting. I don't think there is even an Oxxo in the town. There are a lot of small restaurants/pottery stores/maybe a pharmacy or two/some small hardware shops. I think if you need something more than soft drinks, snack foods or aspirins you pretty much have to get in the car and drive to either Cuatla or Cuernavaca. You CAN pick up some stuff at the twice(?) a week market. People are pretty regularly complaining about their internet service. We have been in a couple of very very nice houses in Tepoztlan.

There is bus service to the entrance-way of the town but I'm not sure of the connections. Perhaps Taxquena in Mexico City where you would need to either get a taxi/bus or metro (watch your belongings) to get anywhere. If you want to catch a bus to MEX you are probably going to have to take a taxi from Tepoztlan to Casino de Selva in Cuernavaca (let's call it a 40 minute ride). Perhaps Google Maps states that MEX is 1.25 hours from Tepoztlan - but it is close to that long just to get to the Caseta de Tlapan (which for me anyway is like the 'gateway' to the city). Then depending on the time of day the airport is probably another hour away. And that is in a bus which is going to take you right to terminals. By the way - there is a domestic as well as an international terminal. Figure another 20-30 minute ride if you are going international. When you first get on the bus in Cuernavaca the driver will tell you settle in for the two hour ride (they often have movies). Although my bank credit card affords me a week's free parking at MEX I've never driven in. We actually anticipate the traffic/time of day when we book flights. We often take a 5AM bus for a 9AM flight (domestic) and try to always return to MEX at 1PM or earlier.

There is only one word to describe Tepoztlan weekend traffic - oppressive. It is so bad they even close off the main drag to one way traffic and send you down side streets. We like driving in at say 8AM on a Sunday morning for breakfast and try to head back home by 10 AM (or else). 

The weather is nice most times of the year. The guy who built our house was Swiss and our house has many many vigas. It keeps pretty cool and in fact sometimes we literally open the windows to warm the place up. At the same time we do have to run fans at night (at times) to make it comfortable to sleep. When it rains it is normally while we are asleep. But we do get weather from both coasts. 

You really want to exercise caution when you head out hiking in the forest. You do not want to take anything of value along and the larger your party the better. Might be a good idea to take along some dogs if possible. Don't think of riding a bicycle. Horses should be ok but even they take along 3 or 4 dogs. 

If you do go to Tepoztlan to check it out consider stopping in at the La Sombra restaurant/book store. In my very limited experience that seemed to be 'expat central'. (I believe they have a mailing list). Oh - and there is another email based website(?) called cuernads - but as the moderator often points out - its primary purpose is for expats and locals to offer the goods/services and not converse (its purpose is commercial).


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

as lat19 says everyone is different and has different needs.. I look as no OXXO or costco etc.. as a plus but they can be useful.. When you live in a touristplace and I have lived in many tourist places, Paris San Francisco, San Cristobal , you end up knowing the spots to avoid and tourists really do not get in the way.. In Ajijic people say you cannot learn Spanish because everyone speaks English , well I can go months without speaking English so it all depends on your choices...
I am pretty fluent in Spanish and learned it all in Ajijic..
I think it is important to really know what your likes and dislikes are and then find a spot where you will be happy..


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## xolo (May 25, 2014)

I've never been to Tepoztlán so can't offer any help there, but now I want to visit. I have this ever growing list of places I want to visit but due to covid and my academic program I just sit here reading and writing.

Not too far from tepoztlán over in el Estado de México in the Tlahuica zone around San Juan Atzingo it is pretty green. Up here in San Felipe del Progreso it is drier but at 2600 meters it is never hot. It's the rainy season, often rain and humidity in the afternoon, 20 C high and 10 C low.

I go walking most days up in the hills and it is oyamel and madrona, and of course nopal and maguey. It's beautiful. I've never had any problem. My neighbor does the same with her children.

We've got OXXOs and even a Soriana and an Aurrerá. I remember when the Mega was a Milpa. 

There are almost no foreigners and no tourists here, it's great for Spanish immersion. The English-crazy English instructors at my university are another story, they're all Mexican BTW. And the people who have lived in the US. There's this one guy that means well and is maybe B2 in English who always insists on interpreting. My Spanish is waaay better than his English but he just wants to help. Other than that there isn't much English here that I come into contact with, and I (used) to interact with all kinds of people.


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## TurtleToo (Aug 23, 2013)

tomwins said:


> So we are looking for a country with less disparity between rich and poor. It will NOT be the US since it is not much better than Mexico. We want to be in a place with political, economic, and scientific infrastructure that will weather the next storm better than the US or Mexico.
> 
> .


May I ask what countries you are considering that have less economic inequality? When I looked at this factor a few years ago, I found that countries with less disparity between rich and poor tended to have residency requirements that were difficult to meet. 

And by the way, I love WeatherSpark! It is my go-to site for weather/climate info.

Best regards,
TT
.


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## ojosazules11 (Nov 3, 2013)

lat19n said:


> I guess two people can look at the same thing and see something different.
> .....
> There is bus service to the entrance-way of the town but I'm not sure of the connections. Perhaps Taxquena in Mexico City where you would need to either get a taxi/bus or metro (watch your belongings) to get anywhere. If you want to catch a bus to MEX you are probably going to have to take a taxi from Tepoztlan to Casino de Selva in Cuernavaca (let's call it a 40 minute ride). Perhaps Google Maps states that MEX is 1.25 hours from Tepoztlan - but it is close to that long just to get to the Caseta de Tlapan (which for me anyway is like the 'gateway' to the city). Then depending on the time of day the airport is probably another hour away. And that is in a bus which is going to take you right to terminals. By the way - there is a domestic as well as an international terminal. Figure another 20-30 minute ride if you are going international. When you first get on the bus in Cuernavaca the driver will tell you settle in for the two hour ride (they often have movies). Although my bank credit card affords me a week's free parking at MEX I've never driven in. We actually anticipate the traffic/time of day when we book flights. We often take a 5AM bus for a 9AM flight (domestic) and try to always return to MEX at 1PM or earlier.
> ....


I know the route from the Mexico City International Airport to Tepoztlán so well, I think I could drive it blindfolded (but of course with all those curves and unpredictable drivers, I wouldn’t). But I love the drive, heading up from the crazy, chaotic city into the cooler pine forests, sometimes accompanied by fog and mists (which of course can be treacherous for driving). I always roll down my window to breathe in the fragrant pine-laden mountain air. The highway then comes down through the amazing food tianguis in Tres Marias, which for me signifies I’m getting close to home, and brings wonderful memories of taking my mother-in-law, QEPD, for evening outings to Tres Marias for “café de olla”. As I come to the sharp hairpin curves of La Pera, there are amazing views of the Valley of Cuernavaca. I get glimpses of San Juan Tlacotenco at 2378 m (7800 ft) elevation, where they cultivate beautiful flowers. Next I spy the Colonia del Tesoro in Tepoztlán (literally built on the side of a hill where naysayers had said no one would be able to build because it was so steep) and the bright blue house where my niece used to live. I know I’m getting closer and closer to home, and the town I love so much. I fell in love with Tepoztlán 27 years ago, and I also fell in love IN Tepoztlán (and I’m still married to the man I fell in love with those many years ago).

In terms of buses from Tepoztlán to the airport, there is (or was — suspended with pandemic) a direct bus (ADO) from the gas station/bus station at the entrance to Tepoztlán direct to the Mexico City airport, running 3 times a day, taking 1 hr and 20 minutes, almost always made it in the stated time. It only goes to Terminal 1, which is where most of the international flights fly out of. If flying on Aeromexico you need to take the Aerotrén to Terminal 2 (you need to show your airline ticket or boarding pass to use the Aerotrén). Lat19n, you may not be aware of this bus, because it doesn’t operate from the area where all the other buses at the airport are located. The ADO station is tucked into a corner near the upper entrance to the Camino Real Hotel, reached by crossing one of those elevated, enclosed pedestrian walkways which stretch from the upper level of the terminal across the road in front of Terminal 1. 

I’ve taken both the ADO bus from Tepoz and the Pullman de Morelos bus from Casino de la Selva in Cuernavaca many times. The only advantage of taking the Pullman from Casino in Cuernavaca is that there are frequent buses running from early morning to late at night, whereas there are only 3 daily from Tepoz. The ADO bus from Tepoztlán is cheaper, and saves time both because it is a shorter route and I don’t need to drive to Cuernavaca. From Cuernavaca it is 2 hrs to the airport. I always allow extra time if leaving Sunday afternoon/evening, as traffic back to the CDMX can be bad at the end of a weekend. Cuernavaca, Tepoz, Lomas de Cocoyoc, Oaxtepec, are all weekend destinations for los chilangos (denizens of CDMX), and they all head back on that same highway 95D. If it’s a “puente” (long weekend) then on the Monday the highway to CDMX feels more like a parking lot. In addition to taking the bus, I sometimes rent a car at the airport. One time driving to the airport on the Monday of a long weekend I was monitoring Google Maps for predicted duration of trip. Initially it was 1 hr 15 minutes, then 1 hr 20 minutes. I had planned on at least 2 hrs given traffic, and I always try to get to the airport 2 1/2-3 hrs before the flight, so all was good. I was nearly ready to leave, when Google maps went from 1 hr 30 minutes to 3 hrs!!! I think there was an accident along the route. It was a very hot afternoon, and lots of micro-enterprises sprung up along the side of the highway, couples and families with coolers selling cold drinks to the motorists, along with snacks. I have a hunch people who live near the various stretches of highway prepare for this kind of traffic jam (bumper to bumper, “a vuelta de rueda” as my husband says), and when it materializes, out they come. It took well over 3 hrs to get to the airport, but I fortunately made my flight. 

Two other options to get from Tepoztlán to the airport: 
1. Take a bus from Tepoztlán to Taxqueña (the southern bus terminal in CDMX). There is generally a bus leaving every 20-30 minutes. From Taxqueña you can take a “taxi seguro”, Uber or if adventurous and travelling light, the Metro/MetroBus. There is a Metro (subway) station adjacent to the bus terminal. 
2. Hire a taxi or private driver to take you. This will be the most expensive, but if you are a party of 2 or 3, still can be fairly reasonable.

By the way, Google Maps tells me it is currently a 1 hr 5 minute drive from the gas station in Tepoztlán to the airport.


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## ojosazules11 (Nov 3, 2013)

lat19n said:


> ...
> I don't think there is even an Oxxo in the town. There are a lot of small restaurants/pottery stores/maybe a pharmacy or two/some small hardware shops. I think if you need something more than soft drinks, snack foods or aspirins you pretty much have to get in the car and drive to either Cuatla or Cuernavaca. You CAN pick up some stuff at the twice(?) a week market. People are pretty regularly complaining about their internet service. We have been in a couple of very very nice houses in Tepoztlan.
> ....


No OXXO in town is the direct result of people living there blocking it. While some may want one, most don’t, in favour of local non-franchise businesses. There are several pharmacies, and many abarrotes with a wide variety of offerings. They may look tiny, but you would be surprised at what you can find. Remember there is a community of expats (not just from Gringolandia, also from Europe, other Latin American countries and other parts of the world), and some very wealthy Mexicans have homes there, so 3 or 4 of the small supermarkets carry quite a lot of higher end food items you might not expect in a small town. The central market is open daily (in non-pandemic times), for all your fruits, vegetables, dry goods, meat, chicken, cheese, etc. On Wednesdays and the weekends the market is bigger, with more vendors from outside and an even wider selection, and on Saturday and Sunday they close one of the main roads to set up the artisan tianguis. 

You really don’t need to go to Cuautla or Cuernavaca for much of anything in terms of day to day needs. You may get them cheaper at Walmart or Costco (not necessarily), but I like supporting local families. There are even some furniture stores, which also sell appliances. No Elektra, just a local family-owned business. Lots of restaurants, as well as food stands and small fonditas in the front room of someone’s home. There are paint stores, hardware stores, a few building supply places (but we go to the same one as you, Lat19n, in Santa Catarina, because the ones in Tepoz are more expensive and my husband knows the guys in Santa Catarina). There are gyms, Zumba, music classes, a very good youth orchestra, an auditorium which often hosts excellent musical or theatre events, various festivals. For new release movies, you will need to go to Cinépolis in Cuernavaca, but there are movie showings in the auditorium, or open air on a big screen set up in front of the municipal building on some weekends. There are museums, art galleries, a whole host of cultural offerings in town.

BTW the bilingual bookstore/café La Sombra del Sabino has moved to a new venue. 

To be continued...


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## lat19n (Aug 19, 2017)

We don't travel to the airport in Mexico City all that much - but we do have some frequent flier miles which we will need to burn through at some point (or lose). 

Is there secured parking anywhere near the Pemex at the entrance to Tepoztlan ? There is NO parking near La Selva (well there is but we wouldn't park there for travel purposes). Pullman has no INAPAM discount for the airport route but it is pretty cheap anyway. As you point out there are tons of Pullman buses daily AND you can use their online scheduling to prepay and reserve your seats !

We once spent the better part of a night stopped on 95D due to an accident. It was at least 6+ hours. Fortunately it was on the return trip. I used the time to curl up and sleep. My wife made a long-lasting friendship with another woman on the bus.


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## lat19n (Aug 19, 2017)

ojosazules11 said:


> No OXXO in town is the direct result of people living there blocking it. While some may want one, most don’t, in favour of local non-franchise businesses. There are several pharmacies, and many abarrotes with a wide variety of offerings. They may look tiny, but you would be surprised at what you can find. Remember there is a community of expats (not just from Gringolandia, also from Europe, other Latin American countries and other parts of the world), and some very wealthy Mexicans have homes there, so 3 or 4 of the small supermarkets carry quite a lot of higher end food items you might not expect in a small town. The central market is open daily (in non-pandemic times), for all your fruits, vegetables, dry goods, meat, chicken, cheese, etc. On Wednesdays and the weekends the market is bigger, with more vendors from outside and an even wider selection, and on Saturday and Sunday they close one of the main roads to set up the artisan tianguis.
> 
> You really don’t need to go to Cuautla or Cuernavaca for much of anything in terms of day to day needs. You may get them cheaper at Walmart or Costco (not necessarily), but I like supporting local families. There are even some furniture stores, which also sell appliances. No Elektra, just a local family-owned business. Lots of restaurants, as well as food stands and small fonditas in the front room of someone’s home. There are paint stores, hardware stores, a few building supply places (but we go to the same one as you, Lat19n, in Santa Catarina, because the ones in Tepoz are more expensive and my husband knows the guys in Santa Catarina). There are gyms, Zumba, music classes, a very good youth orchestra, an auditorium which often hosts excellent musical or theatre events, various festivals. For new release movies, you will need to go to Cinépolis in Cuernavaca, but there are movie showings in the auditorium, or open air on a big screen set up in front of the municipal building on some weekends. There are museums, art galleries, a whole host of cultural offerings in town.
> 
> ...


For the record - we don't do our shopping at OXXO, but it is nice to know we can pick up some fresh milk in a pinch or if the electricity goes out we can find bags of ice. We have never purchased anything from Elecktra. 

Its nice that Tepoztlan works so well for you. I guess my wife and I are weird people. If someone were to use the local cell towers to track my comings and goings (using my phone) they would say - this guy is the most boring person on the planet. But they would have said the same of my life in the US. With some small deviations (medical.dental,get-togethers with our few Mexican friends) - we do the same things week after week. We have not been to the south side of Cuernavaca in years ! Our idea of excitement is a few days in Acapulco or a weekend walking around/eating in Mexico City. When possible we take a couple trips to other beaches per year. We have not been out of Mexico in maybe 5 years. Once a week we shop at Costco/Mega and once a week we shop at Superama/Sams. We have maybe 4 restaurants we frequent (for breakfast or lunch).

As for the artisan tianguis you mention - that just is not us. We did pick up a hand carved fruit bowl once. At the market we pick up fruit if we see something interesting (and we want to carry it back to the car). Otherwise the only other thing we have purchased at that market is kindling for our fireplace. We do not buy raw fish, poultry or meat on the street or in a market. I do enjoy the borrego tacos !

In our time in Mexico we have been to the movies twice; Coco and that Bond film with the day of the dead scenes. But, in life, I can count all the movies I have seen (at a theater) on both hands; Top Gun, 2001 A Space Odyssey... In Mexico City I could visit the Museum of Anthropology and the Castle every visit. I will never revisit the Museo Soumaya or the Palacio de Bellas Artes again. But - we start most every day at 4:30AM and start reading in bed at 7:30PM. The few times we have ventured out into the nearest town after dark it was a shocking experience. The thing that came to my mind was that night scene in the movie Apocalypse Now where the patrol boat is heading up a river at the "Do Lung Bridge". Particularly on weekends it is like a carnival. 

I also like to support our local shops and have some great relationships. Our herrero is also our cat-sitter and his sister-in-law helps clean from time to time. I only go to Home Depot if I can't find something elsewhere (and I need it bad). I use Amazon and MercadoLibre A LOT. I purchased my lawn mower from a place in Puebla and received it (at our house) the next day ! We purchased our bedding at Sams and our appliances at Costco. Particularly during these times - my wife walks the aisles of Mega while I walk the aisles of Costco and we meet back at the car 15 minutes later. We buy the same stuff (pretty much) week after week. But in the US we used the same Pizza joint, the same butcher, the same grocery store etc for close to 30 years... Ya know - we have kind of transplanted our US lifestyle to Mexico. We are certainly the same people. There is just more Spanish in our lives (well I kind of have my own hybrid language I am trying to get others to adopt). That and there is no nearby beach for us to walk while watching the sunrise. (Weather permitting we did that every morning in the US).


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

If you enjoy the Museum of Anthropolology on CDMX, I recommend a trip to Jalapa the Museum of Anthropology there , It is fabulous.. I do not like the town but I could go to that museum every year..


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

lat19n,

I am just about the opposite of you.

I do almost all my grocery shopping in a mercado near my house. I have never been in a Superama or Sams.

Before Covid I went to the movies every week, sometimes twice a week.

Until Covid came along, I was taking trips out of Mexico probably several times a year, usually once to visit my son in the US, once to visit my daughter in Europe, and occasional work trips to Africa or the Caribbean.

We do have one thing in common. I also never buy raw fish, poultry or meat on the street or in a market. But then I never buy them anywhere.


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## genab (Jul 19, 2020)

lat19n said:


> We don't live in Teopoztlan, but we live very close. If I had a death wish I could probably ride a bicycle there in less than an hour. As it is we get in there maybe 4-6 times a year, mostly for an early weekend breakfast, or a quick visit to the market.
> 
> I wouldn't worry about real-estate costs growing out of control. If anything I envy you. When we purchased our house the peso was much stronger than it is today. Having US dollars today you are in the drivers seat. And - even in terms of Mexican pesos housing is getting cheaper. A lot of affluent Mexicans are a little uncertain of the future.
> 
> ...


That sounds beautiful! I have a huge garden myself, and wouldn't want to give that up when I move. I really appreciate all the info too (and comforting words about real estate), I'm going to check out the area more fully, and will look at Lomas de Cocoyoc as well.


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## genab (Jul 19, 2020)

Thank you all so much for the excellent tips and advice. For some reason I stopped getting notifications for replies, so I had no idea so many had responded until just now, or I would have thanked you earlier. I appreciate it!


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## surabi (Jan 1, 2017)

"There are even some furniture stores, which also sell appliances. No Elektra, just a local family-owned business."

Even though I live less than an hour from Puerto Vallarta, where there are plenty of big box stores, which I do patronize for things I can't get elsewhere, when I first built my house and needed appliances, I did a lot of comparison shopping and found that the big box stores were often more expensive for the exact same stove and fridge than a mom and pop appliance store, which is where I ended up making my purchases. Not only were they less expensive, they delivered for free, whereas the big places wanted to charge anywhere from 300-600 pesos.

Foreigners often assume that they'll always get better deals at big chains because that's how it is where they came from. But in Mexico, smaller stores are often in buildings which the family owns and they live upstairs, and the business is run by family members, not hired employees. So their overhead is low and they have a smaller mark-up. 

Additionally, shopping at local, smaller stores establishes local goodwill and when you go back to buy something in the future, they usually remember you and will offer you good deals and discounts, which isn't ever going to happen at Costco or Elektra. I bought so many tiles from my local tile shop that when I asked him one day the price for a ceramic soap dish that I was going to build into my shower stall, he just waved his hand in a dismissive way and said to just take it, no charge. And when I asked him if he had any broken Saltillo tiles which I wanted to do a mosaic walkway, he sent me over to his property where he stores the major portion of the tiles he stocks where there were broken bits all over the ground, which I filled pails with for free.


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

I am also different, I start cooking around 8pm and we eat around 10,, rarely go to sleep before midnight and stream movies from the internet ..and watch them at home, I love movies.. especially the ones from other countries(than USA)
I never buy fish at big stores, always at fish stores or tianguis.. I do not buy fish tah has neen cut up, if I cannot see the eyes and gills of the fish I want , I do not buy it. I then ask the fishmonger to cut up the whole fish and I freeze what we do not eat that day.. I do not buy beef and buy chickens at the tianguis or large stores or neighborhodd places. buy the veggies and fruit whereever I see that they are fresh.. and go to a special grocery to get imported cheeses and Asian ingredients, so I go all over the place rather than go to a Costco..

i like to explore places I have never been to so I rarey go to one main destination without taking side trips. I love markets and love to go and visit artisans and meet new people...

I love being retired and taking extra time to visit place and see new things, I rarelly go back to a place I fell in love with because am always disappointed.. except for Paris and Mexico City of course..

Yes as many people there are as many lifestyles , likes and dislikes there are and this is why it is almost impossible to tell a person what would be a great place to live for them as everyone is different..


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

citlali said:


> I am also different, I start cooking around 8pm and we eat around 10,, rarely go to sleep before midnight and stream movies from the internet ..and watch them at home, I love movies.. especially the ones from other countries(than USA)
> I never buy fish at big stores, always at fish stores or tianguis.. I do not buy fish tah has neen cut up, if I cannot see the eyes and gills of the fish I want , I do not buy it. I then ask the fishmonger to cut up the whole fish and I freeze what we do not eat that day.. I do not buy beef and buy chickens at the tianguis or large stores or neighborhodd places. buy the veggies and fruit whereever I see that they are fresh.. and go to a special grocery to get imported cheeses and Asian ingredients, so I go all over the place rather than go to a Costco..
> 
> i like to explore places I have never been to so I rarey go to one main destination without taking side trips. I love markets and love to go and visit artisans and meet new people...
> ...


Citlali, when you have time to write some essays about your unique approach to life, I volunteer to proofread the rough drafts. Of course, if you write them in French, I won't be able to help!


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

ojosazules11 said:


> We have a home in Tepoztlán. I honestly can’t tell you much about current real estate prices or availability, as I haven’t kept up with that. But it is a wonderful place to live. While the surrounding mountains become more of a golden sere colour during the dry season, when the rains start in late May or June, they turn emerald green, and rivulets turn into streams and become waterfalls cascading down the mountainside. It’s a great area for hiking. Even in the dry season, there is lots of greenery and flowering trees and vines. Colour everywhere.
> 
> Unless it’s rush hour or the Monday of a long weekend, it’s generally just about 1 hr 15 minutes from Tepoztlán to the Mexico City Airport (83 km). Tepoztlán is closer to CDMX than Cuernavaca is. And it’s only 20-30 minutes to Cuernavaca, where you can find the big box stores, hospitals, shopping malls, etc.
> 
> ...


I have spent time over the years in Tepoztlán, on many enjoyable day trips, and fully understand why you like living there, at least part time for now. Do you think the fact that your husband is a native of the town has anything to do with your love of the place?


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

I would think that being married to a local would make it more interesting and also challenging sometimes. family can be fun and also can be a real pain..


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## ojosazules11 (Nov 3, 2013)

Isla Verde said:


> I have spent time over the years in Tepoztlán, on many enjoyable day trips, and fully understand why you like living there, at least part time for now. Do you think the fact that your husband is a native of the town has anything to do with your love of the place?


I think the fact that I met and fell in love with him in Tepoztlán makes the town special, but I also love the town on its own merits. My husband is not actually a native-born Tepozteco. He was born elsewhere, and when he was a bit older his family moved there. So we do have relatives there from his immediate family (siblings, nieces, nephews, great-nieces and nephews), but we aren’t related to half the town like we would be if his ancestors had been Tepoztecos for the past several centuries. One of his best friends owns a home which has been passed down through their family for nearly 5 centuries. It was one of the earliest houses built in Tepoztlán. My husband has strong roots in Tepoztlán, but not 500 years worth! Certainly having a lot of local friends and family creates community and a sense of belonging, which matters to me. That has happened even though I’m only there for fairly brief periods during the year. When I go down into town centre, I’m pretty much guaranteed to run into people I know. Once when I arrived in town after a particularly exhausting period at work, I didn’t actually want to see anybody for the first several days. I just wanted to be at home with my husband and decompress. But word leaks out, and before long visitors were arriving to say hello. I could hardly turn them away (culturally that would be quite a faux pas), and anyway it’s nice to feel so loved. I haven’t really gotten to know any of the expats in town. Maybe I will when I live there for longer periods after retirement.


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## ojosazules11 (Nov 3, 2013)

citlali said:


> I would think that being married to a local would make it more interesting and also challenging sometimes. family can be fun and also can be a real pain..


Así es...


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## ojosazules11 (Nov 3, 2013)

lat19n said:


> You really want to exercise caution when you head out hiking in the forest. You do not want to take anything of value along and the larger your party the better. Might be a good idea to take along some dogs if possible. Don't think of riding a bicycle. Horses should be ok but even they take along 3 or 4 dogs.


I 100% agree that if you are hiking in the surrounding wilderness, you should go with a knowledgeable guide. There have been deaths of people who were visiting Tepoztlán and decided to go hiking in the woods by themselves, then got lost or injured and didn’t make it. It can be easy to get turned around, there are deep ravines and abrupt drop-offs, and once up in the hills you may not be able to get a cell signal. We walk in the woods on a regular basis, and my husband is a great navigator. Funnily enough, when driving I’m the better navigator, but in the woods I rely on him. My stepson and my nieces know the trails very well since they grew up there, so I also feel confident with them. There are knowledgeable guides who take groups hiking through the forest (my niece is one of them). There is such stunning natural beauty in this forest, which stretches from Tepoztlán to Mexico City. There are and amazing vistas and panaromic lookouts over the town and surrounding valley. In the rainy season, the hills turn a brilliant emerald green, and there are many streams and waterfalls (most of which dry up in the dry season). It’s been a protected natural area for nearly a century. The “Corredor Biológico Chichinautzin” is rich in flora and fauna, some of which can only be found in this area. Our house is adjacent to the forest, and it’s wonderful to be able to take a short walk and be right in the woods.


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## ojosazules11 (Nov 3, 2013)

lat19n said:


> ....
> If you do go to Tepoztlan to check it out consider stopping in at the La Sombra restaurant/book store. In my very limited experience that seemed to be 'expat central'.
> ....


There are lots of expats, and Mexicans, to be found at La Sombra del Sabino, especially when they host a weekly organic market. It is a “literary café”, a bilingual bookstore and small restaurant. They also various literary, cultural and community events throughout the year.

There are also other wonderful cafés in town where you will spot expats hanging out. It is not hard to find really good coffee (including espresso, cappuccinos, lattes), chocolate, cold or hot, and even a specialized tea shop with an eastern vibe. (Vibes are quite a thing in Tepoz. There is even a hotel-spa called “La Buena Vibra” - The Good Vibe.) Of course, you can also head to the market for a delicious traditional “café de olla”. 

La Sombra del Sabino

There is also a newer Cultural Centre / Library in town, with a wide array of events and activities. I haven’t been yet, but am looking forward to it. 

https://www.ccple.org


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## ojosazules11 (Nov 3, 2013)

I can’t take credit for this photo ( I got it off a Tepoztlán Facebook page), but it’s a great shot of the misty, mystical hills around Tepoztlán.


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## xolo (May 25, 2014)

incredible.


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