# Long term property rental contract



## Boaz7648 (Jul 3, 2009)

Hi all

My first posting here. Can any one send me a copy in English of a long term property rental contract? Thanks in advance.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Boaz7648 said:


> Hi all
> 
> My first posting here. Can any one send me a copy in English of a long term property rental contract? Thanks in advance.


Hi and welcome to the forum. Hhhmm, contracts must be written in Spanish for them to be legal. I have a copy of mine I could scan and send you, but its in Spanish. Most contracts for rentals in Spain are in fact considered short term, they are for a maximum term of 11 months. This is to do with anything longer giving the tenant too many legal rights. Have you contacted an agent who may have a translated version??

Jo xxx


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## SianH (Jul 5, 2009)

Hi Jo

I'd be interested in the Spanish contract. I have a couple who want to rent my apartment for 5 months - would this be suitable?

Thanks in advance

Sian


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

i dont know, I'm in the UK at the mo, I'll get it out and have a look at it when I return to Spain. I think its pretty much a universal, holiday/short term rental contract which lasts for 11 months. 

Jo xxx


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## Xose (Dec 10, 2008)

SianH said:


> Hi Jo
> 
> I'd be interested in the Spanish contract. I have a couple who want to rent my apartment for 5 months - would this be suitable?
> 
> ...


Sian,
Talk to a letting agent (usually any estate agent with property to rent. If you talk as though you have an appartment to let and that you're considering it, but are a newbie at it and wonder if it's worth the risk - ask them questions like what happens if they simply don't pay after, say, month 2?

Ask a bout furnished or unfirnished variations on rights. Ask about with or without kids and variations on rights - despite the 11 months not being met yet.

Why do most agents/landlords ask for a Bank Aval for different periods - some 6 months, others 12 - depending on the area. This is dependent on how long it's currently taking the courts to get people out in that particular area of Spain (backlog) but let the agent confirm that as people, just on this Forum, have said they wouldn't agree to that. This is fine as you don't have to stay the term if you choose not to, but from the landlord's point of view, you don't have to pay it either and getting you out via the courts ain't cheap or fast.... so I can see in these times why the Aval is really a must have buffer for a land lord.

Good luck,
Xose


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## SteveHall (Oct 17, 2008)

You can get a standard contract in Spanish in any estanco. I think it was about 3 euros last time I bought one.


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## SianH (Jul 5, 2009)

SteveHall said:


> You can get a standard contract in Spanish in any estanco. I think it was about 3 euros last time I bought one.


Thanks - we're in the UK at the moment and not due back in Spain until next year. Any ideas?


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

SianH said:


> Thanks - we're in the UK at the moment and not due back in Spain until next year. Any ideas?


Have you looked on line? or maybe even ask an agent to mail you a copy of a blank one?? Remember for it to be legally binding in Spain it has to be written in Spanish

Jo xx


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## SteveHall (Oct 17, 2008)

If you give me an address in the UK I will put one in the post 

Please PM me ..... and not add to a public forum


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## kathyd55 (Jun 6, 2010)

*need advice*



jojo said:


> Hi and welcome to the forum. Hhhmm, contracts must be written in Spanish for them to be legal. I have a copy of mine I could scan and send you, but its in Spanish. Most contracts for rentals in Spain are in fact considered short term, they are for a maximum term of 11 months. This is to do with anything longer giving the tenant too many legal rights. Have you contacted an agent who may have a translated version??
> 
> Jo xxx


Hi 
I need some strong advice on a situation that has arisen while we are in the Uk.
We were renting a property in Ojen .It was a holiday home owned by a couple who live in the UK. They had never rented it before and it was a townhouse that had been refurbished.
A proper contract was never written up as they did not want to pay 300 for it and so they wrote up their own contract and we signed it .
There was a verbal agreement that we would go back to the Uk in August and they would then come out and use the house. 
I am a teacher and so am off with kids in August.

So we very kindly booked to come back to Uk as they went out on Holiday .

Last night after being here for nearly two weeks we got a phone call from the owners wife to say that they were not going to rent it out for another year and were unhappy about our "stuff" being all over the house. Now let me explain .

The house was sparsely furnished being a holiday home and as we were living there we had to buy more furniture to hold our clothes ,kids books etc and also to be able to pack "stuff" away and not have it lying all over the place. 
We looked after the house well ..painting over all the damp etc .We had one breakage ..the door handle of the very old washing machine that can still be used.

They sent us an email last night to say that they are placing our "stuff" in storage!!!

in essence this means that when we return to Spain on 24th August we are homeless with kids and myself starting school the following week,a dog to pick up from kennels etc .

in addition my daughter has all her diabetic medicine that will have to be accessed when we get back . if she cannot get to her medication it is potentially a very serious situation

I know that with the rental contracts in Spain we probably have no rights here whatsoever with what is a very harsh situation.
We have asked them to plase leave our "stuff" IN THE HOUSE AND WE WILL MOVE OUT AT END OF AUGUST which is in effect them giving us 2 weeks notice.

After I calmed down and looked at the situation i could see that the owners wife was expecting the house to be the same as they way they left it which was un realistic considering a family of 4 had to live in it for a year.
Incidently there was no damage done to the house whatsoever ,we have our own house rented in the Uk and we looked after their house well. We fixed things and painted walls as if it was our own.


This is an emotional decision from the owners wife who cannot bear the fact that people are living in her holiday home. A friend has told me that she did not want to rent it out and it was the husbands decision as it paid their morgage.

Is there anything at all I can do here?

Kathy

Is there

Is there anything I can do here.


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## thrax (Nov 13, 2008)

This is a tough one and I'm not sure what you can do. However, I know there are people on this forum who have a wealth of knowledge and experience so be patient and answers will come through although they might not be what you are hoping for.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

kathyd55 said:


> Hi
> I need some strong advice on a situation that has arisen while we are in the Uk.
> We were renting a property in Ojen .It was a holiday home owned by a couple who live in the UK. They had never rented it before and it was a townhouse that had been refurbished.
> A proper contract was never written up as they did not want to pay 300 for it and so they wrote up their own contract and we signed it .
> ...


Right. What I can tell you is that if the contract is NOT written in Spanish and was NOT signed by both parties then it is NOT legal! THATS NOT A BAD THING. The law in Spain is that if there is no legal contract and it can be proven that the owners have been accepting rent, then the tenants actually have the right to stay as permanent tenants for a maximum of five years (as long as all bills etc have been paid)

Assuming that your contract is in Spanish etc, does it have a clause to allow either party to cut the term short????? If not, then you have every right to go back to the property and actually have the owners evicted. Not a pleasant thought tho. 

If you're in the right, you should speak immediately to an abogado, with a view to possibly even getting the owners evicted???? Certainly make sure that they pay you some sort of compensation and the storage for your property until you are able to find somewhere else????

I've been in a similar predicament, and its so stressful, even when you're in the right. Its not why we moved to Spain, we wanted a quiet and relaxed life. We ended up just walking away and are now temporarily back in the UK and very miserable

Jo xxx


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

...........I'll see if I can find the links on here to my situation as the advise will help you

Jo xxx


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## kathyd55 (Jun 6, 2010)

*thanks*

Yes i am very aware that we probably do not have any rights here whatsoever .
I just put out the email to see if there is anything at all.

never really been in a situation like this before where my family has been turned upside down by the emotional wims of a holiday home owner.

thanks for the reassurance
Kathy






thrax said:


> This is a tough one and I'm not sure what you can do. However, I know there are people on this forum who have a wealth of knowledge and experience so be patient and answers will come through although they might not be what you are hoping for.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

YOU DO HAVE RIGHTS AS LONG AS YOU CAN PROVE THAT THE OWNERS HAVE BEEN ACCEPTING MONEY FROM YOU AS RENT!!!!!


Have a read thru this, there maybe some useful info


http://www.expatforum.com/expats/sp...spain/71337-11-month-rentals-help-please.html

Jo xxx


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

kathyd55 said:


> Yes i am very aware that we probably do not have any rights here whatsoever .
> I just put out the email to see if there is anything at all.
> 
> never really been in a situation like this before where my family has been turned upside down by the emotional wims of a holiday home owner.
> ...


as jojo just said - as long as you can prove that you have been paying rent, & the contract is still ongoing, then you actually have more rights over the property than the owners at this point - it doesn't matter what the contract says or doesn't say, or even in what language it is or isn't written

that said - you really do need to speak to an abogado ASAP

if you have friends in the area who can recommend one that would be good - if not, contact the British Embassy - they can't actually help I don't think, but they can advise & at the very least giveyou the name of an abogado


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

.........All that said, I've just spoken to my OH, and bear in mind we've been thru similar, maybe the easiest thing to do would be to get back to Spain and find somewhere else to live as soon as possible, get your stuff in it and then find an abogado, or even denounce the owners

Jo xxx


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

jojo said:


> .........All that said, I've just spoken to my OH, and bear in mind we've been thru similar, maybe the easiest thing to do would be to get back to Spain and find somewhere else to live as soon as possible, get your stuff in it and then find an abogado, or even denounce the owners
> 
> Jo xxx


yes of course that's the easiest thing to do, especially given that the owners are actually IN the property atm

_I_ certainly wouldn't want to be living there after all this

Kathy - have they put your 'stuff' in paid for storage?

& when does your 'contract' supposedly expire?


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## kathyd55 (Jun 6, 2010)

*read through*

I read through and thanks for that info.
however The rental contract is in the house so we cannot see it. i am sure there was a months notice included .Also as far as we remember the contract was untill end of August.
The owners wife has told us she is putting all our "stuff" into storage!!!!!

My daughter is Diabetic and needs access to her medication when we get back so there are more serious ramifications to what they are doing .I have emailed them and asked then to please leave our "stuff" in the house untill we get back .

i notice on the reasons for eviction complaints from neighbors. The owners wife told me that there were complaints of noise?????? now let me explain .

one of the neighbors looked after their house when they were away .Although we watered the plants etc she insisted on doing this as well .
As our shanish is not very good we tended to keep very much to ourselves and to be honest I am not that sure that the neighbors knew that much about us.

During school time my kids are out of the house and doing homework and watching Tv in the evening .In july my daughter on a few occasions would have had the music playing loudly in her room...which i told her to turn down .

WE HAD NO COMPLAINTS FROM NEIGHBOURS.

I feel that we have an emotional reaction here from the owners wife to someone staying in her precious holiday home and she is gathering everything she can to get a reason to move us out.

i have a rented home myself .we looked after their house well, painting over all the damp etc.

All we have done wrong is broken a handle of a very old washing machine [can still be used] and bought furniture to hold our things.






jojo said:


> YOU DO HAVE RIGHTS AS LONG AS YOU CAN PROVE THAT THE OWNERS HAVE BEEN ACCEPTING MONEY FROM YOU AS RENT!!!!!
> 
> 
> Have a read thru this, there maybe some useful info
> ...


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## Happyexpat (Apr 4, 2011)

We rent out my mother in laws apartment and used to do it through an English business based out here. Bad mistake! We were left in a terrible situation with no rent being paid, damage, a sitting tenant and the English agents adjust just dumped us and cleared off to the UK.

We turned the problem over to a local well established Spanish agency who quickly sorted it all out but in the process we learnt that

11 months contracts now have no real relevance
New Landlord rights for termination and eviction were put in place earlier this year to encourage more rental properties on to the market.
No contract, in both Spanish AND the language of the tenant, then no rights on either side without a protracted court case.

I'm afraid I don't know any details so you do need to seek legal advice out here.

The question you have to ask is 'is it worth the hassle' there are loads of properties available at the moment so it might be easier and cheaper just to take your stuff, get your deposit back, payment for the storage, maybe, if you can get it, an inconvenience payment and get another place......


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

kathyd55 said:


> I read through and thanks for that info.
> however The rental contract is in the house so we cannot see it. i am sure there was a months notice included .Also as far as we remember the contract was untill end of August.
> The owners wife has told us she is putting all our "stuff" into storage!!!!!
> 
> ...


even if they had cause for eviction, they would still need a court order - & that would take months to arrange


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## kathyd55 (Jun 6, 2010)

yes i hear what you are saying that is it really worth the hassle .No it is not .Also we cannot afford lawyers fees either so cannot get into a situation like that .
We are not getting the deposit back as they say we have damaged a chair and of course the broken handle on the 50 year old washing machine.

Here is the exact email they sent us .She phoned to tell me she had sent an email and when i asked what about she told me nothing about storage but the problem with the "stuff" all over the place .

Have a read


Tony and Kathy just to let you know that we have decided not to rent 
our house any more for a number of reasons, we have not taken this 
decision lightly but feel it is necessary. We have arranged for a 
removal firm to have all of your belongings put into storage until you 
get back from Ireland and you can collect everything from them. We 
thought that we would let you know now so you are able to find another 
property to rent.


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## Seb* (Mar 22, 2009)

kathyd55 said:


> I read through and thanks for that info.
> however The rental contract is in the house so we cannot see it. i am sure there was a months notice included .Also as far as we remember the contract was untill end of August.
> The owners wife has told us she is putting all our "stuff" into storage!!!!!


I would suggest just to move on. If the contract is valid until August, you more or less got your month notice. A long legal battle is not worth it imo, especially seeing that you agreed to a 11 month contract until the end of august (legal or illegal to the side).

I would focus on organising accomodation now, so you have something sorted out when you return. See it as a lesson learnt and move on. For the future, insist on a *Spanish* rental contract, do not accept all those little extra conditions like owner can use the house for a month once a year etc., this opens a can of worms - you rent it - it is yours, not theirs!
If you rent somebody's "holiday home" be extra careful. For a lot of people it's very tempting to just put a tenant in during the winter (the hard to rent out time), but when it comes to the high season where you can earn two or more month's worth of rent in a week or would like to use it yourself, some people get second thoughts and might make trouble. JoJo's case was a prime example if I remember correctly.

EDIT: reading their mail just leaves me shaking my head. If you wouldn´t have let them stay in the house during august, the whole situation would be different now, but sadly you gave up this position. I have this nagging feeling you will have to pay the removal company to get your stuff back as well


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## kathyd55 (Jun 6, 2010)

yes i agree that it is better to just move on and it is not worth all the hassle .I know there are loads of rental property around .What upsets me is the storage thing .We are booked to fly back on the 24th August and I start school 4 days later .My husband and i have a tennis business and we have loads of business meetings set up for next week . This is what one would call a major hassle .

what removal company?
at what cost?

A lesson learnt that is for sure







Seb* said:


> I would suggest just to move on. If the contract is valid until August, you more or less got your month notice. A long legal battle is not worth it imo, especially seeing that you agreed to a 11 month contract until the end of august (legal or illegal to the side).
> 
> I would focus on organising accomodation now, so you have something sorted out when you return. See it as a lesson learnt and move on. For the future, insist on a *Spanish* rental contract, do not accept all those little extra conditions like owner can use the house for a month once a year etc., this opens a can of worms - you rent it - it is yours, not theirs!
> If you rent somebody's "holiday home" be extra careful. For a lot of people it's very tempting to just put a tenant in during the winter (the hard to rent out time), but when it comes to the high season where you can earn two or more month's worth of rent in a week or would like to use it yourself, some people get second thoughts and might make trouble. JoJo's case was a prime example if I remember correctly.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

kathyd55 said:


> yes i agree that it is better to just move on and it is not worth all the hassle .I know there are loads of rental property around .What upsets me is the storage thing .We are booked to fly back on the 24th August and I start school 4 days later .My husband and i have a tennis business and we have loads of business meetings set up for next week . This is what one would call a major hassle .
> 
> what removal company?
> at what cost?
> ...


yes it IS a major hassle - but is there no way one of you can get back here ASAP to get sorted?


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## kathyd55 (Jun 6, 2010)

We have friends there who are looking for us .Tony is working in Dublin next week and i am here with my two daughters .
I am in contact by email with a few people there who are looking for us .













xabiachica said:


> yes it IS a major hassle - but is there no way one of you can get back here ASAP to get sorted?


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

kathyd55 said:


> We have friends there who are looking for us .Tony is working in Dublin next week and i am here with my two daughters .
> I am in contact by email with a few people there who are looking for us .


We dont have the same pressure to get back and we've decided to wait until the holiday season is over, end of August and then I'm going over and sorting out somewhere. In fact I have friends who are looking for me too and hopefully will go and view places, so that I can pretty much get off the plane, sign, pay and then move in (I have stuff in storage). 

My boss is holding my job for me til end August, so hopefully......???????

Anyway, yes, one of you needs to get over to Spain asap and find somewhere I guess. I know how you are feeling and trusting any new landlord or contract isnt gonna be easy

Jo xxx


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## kathyd55 (Jun 6, 2010)

the problem is that we are going to have problems finding a place for last week of August so will have to just rent somewhere for a week and start new rent in September. 
Kids school uniform etc all in storage where ever that is. 
If she moves the Diabetic medication out of the fridge it will go off ...all a bit of a nightmare really


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## thrax (Nov 13, 2008)

kathyd55 said:


> the problem is that we are going to have problems finding a place for last week of August so will have to just rent somewhere for a week and start new rent in September.
> Kids school uniform etc all in storage where ever that is.
> If she moves the Diabetic medication out of the fridge it will go off ...all a bit of a nightmare really


Another approach might be to simply accept it and tell them you totally understand their decision, but could they possible keep the medication refrigerated until your return. You never know; such an approach might tug at their emotions, assuming they have any.


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## kathyd55 (Jun 6, 2010)

Well since my last email we have had contact to say that they have booked a removal company already as they have builders coming in next week so not we are getting to the real reason why they want our stuff out .

They have asked if they could put the insulin in a friends house or the school where i work.

At this stage I am beginning to feel like a criminal and not exactly sure what we have done wrong .








thrax said:


> Another approach might be to simply accept it and tell them you totally understand their decision, but could they possible keep the medication refrigerated until your return. You never know; such an approach might tug at their emotions, assuming they have any.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

kathyd55 said:


> Well since my last email we have had contact to say that they have booked a removal company already as they have builders coming in next week so not we are getting to the real reason why they want our stuff out .
> 
> They have asked if they could put the insulin in a friends house or the school where i work.
> 
> At this stage I am beginning to feel like a criminal and not exactly sure what we have done wrong .


this is beginning to sound like it was planned all along

when you get a new place sorted out, for god's sake at the very least denounce them for moving your stuff out without proper notice


tbh, if it was me I'd be on the next plane over right now, see an abogado on monday & get them kicked out till my 'notice' period was up

well .................I'd send the OH, anyway

in the long term you'll still be wanting to move - but why should you suffer & probably have to pay storage until you get your stuff?


how many months deposit did you pay?


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## Happyexpat (Apr 4, 2011)

Just out of interest who are they expecting to pay for the removal Co and the storage, not you I hope. They certainly have no rights to do all of this to you. You could probably get a denouncement very quickly! They seem to be really nasty people people with no thought for others. I suspect they may have sold the place on the understanding that there will be no tenents in it....
I hope it all ends well for you and the family!


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## kathyd55 (Jun 6, 2010)

A few hours ago we sent them texts asking them to please consider the fact that we are a family and what they are doing is making us homeless. 

We asked them if they could please let us get back and get our things moved and find a place but we have no problem in leaving at end of August. We then even suggested that they could get the neighbor to check on us if they were worried we might do something to their property. Apparently that happens in Spain so we gave them that option .

The answer comes back No... the removal company is organised .We then asked the name of the company and who was paying etc and we get no reply .Then we get a text saying that they are acting on advice of solicitor .
Tony emailed them saying why do they want a solicitor can we not just work this out. What on earth have we done?

Remember in all of this we have looked after their property well but as mentioned i think this was planned .

We tried everything and now have out of no choice of our own we have talked to a friend of ours who is a solicitor here .
He is flabergasted and has told us to text them and say that if they illegally touch or remove any of our property we are going to sue them .

i am also in contact with a friend there who is getting me a Spanishs laywers name and we are going to serve a denuncia....still waiting on that .

From what could have been an amicable arrangement i am afraid that we are now not gong to take this lying down .










xabiachica said:


> this is beginning to sound like it was planned all along
> 
> when you get a new place sorted out, for god's sake at the very least denounce them for moving your stuff out without proper notice
> 
> ...


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## kathyd55 (Jun 6, 2010)

Has anyone a contact number for a spanish lawyer who could serve a denouncement. I am waiting for a friend to get back to me but if there was one someone knew then we could get this organised before Monday .

i have a feeling that they have organised the removal comapny for Monday as they say they have builders coming in next week 







Happyexpat said:


> Just out of interest who are they expecting to pay for the removal Co and the storage, not you I hope. They certainly have no rights to do all of this to you. You could probably get a denouncement very quickly! They seem to be really nasty people people with no thought for others. I suspect they may have sold the place on the understanding that there will be no tenents in it....
> I hope it all ends well for you and the family!


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

kathyd55 said:


> A few hours ago we sent them texts asking them to please consider the fact that we are a family and what they are doing is making us homeless.
> 
> We asked them if they could please let us get back and get our things moved and find a place but we have no problem in leaving at end of August. We then even suggested that they could get the neighbor to check on us if they were worried we might do something to their property. Apparently that happens in Spain so we gave them that option .
> 
> ...


they absolutely can't evict you - as I said, even if you hadn't paid the rent/trashed the place/caused problems with neighbours/etc/etc/ad infinitum

they can only do that with a court order - that takes months & you would have had notification long before now

even if they DID somehow have one - you still get at least 15 days notice



are you sure your 'contract' didn't end at the end of july?


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## kathyd55 (Jun 6, 2010)

This is the problem we have the contract in the house and just cannot remember. We just assumed we were going back for another year.
Tony feels that it was the end of August and I think so too .
We only moved in at beginning of October and so I think it was a yearly contract but we cannot check .

The solicitor has told us that they cannot touch our property without our consent .He is 100% sure that if they do remove our property with out our consent we can sue them .

Its all kind of neat in the email where they say they are giving us 2 weeks notice..what good is that if we are here .

Never really come across anything like this before.

Kathy







xabiachica said:


> they absolutely can't evict you - as I said, even if you hadn't paid the rent/trashed the place/caused problems with neighbours/etc/etc/ad infinitum
> 
> they can only do that with a court order - that takes months & you would have had notification long before now
> 
> ...


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## Seb* (Mar 22, 2009)

If you want to fight this, you have to fly down there now. You need a good lawyer in Spain. Just calling the police won't be that easy, as you said you don't even have the rental contract and I bet all utilities are in their name as well. THEY are sitting in your house with all your stuff. They can just tell the police they own the house and don't know you. YOU have to prove that you are actually renting it. The biggest mistake you made was letting them in, while not being in the country. Just think squatters and what a massive pain it is to get those out.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

kathyd55 said:


> This is the problem we have the contract in the house and just cannot remember. We just assumed we were going back for another year.
> Tony feels that it was the end of August and I think so too .
> We only moved in at beginning of October and so I think it was a yearly contract but we cannot check .
> 
> ...


it was more than likely a so-called 11 month contract - which would indeed bring you to the end of august

if you pay rent monthly they have to give a month's notice - that's the law

and come to think of it, the simple fact that they are giving you 'notice' implies that the contract is still active & didn't finish at the end of last month 

they actually have no legal right to be in the house at all without your permission (I know you said you have an informal verbal agreement, but considering what they are doing I'd 'forget' that ) - never mind move your stuff out

the solicitor you mention - is he english? 

if you look on the 'useful links' sticky there is a link to the rental law in spain - maybe someone who reads spanish could go over it with him


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## kathyd55 (Jun 6, 2010)

Here is perhaps were they have been clever. We had a verbal agreement that they could use the house in August .
They initially said to us that it is their holiday home and they want to use it .We did not intend coming over to Uk and so they said that if they could not come to the house they would have to rent somewhere esle and so they would charge us more for August .
We thought about it and then decided that we may as well come back to Uk and do some business on promoting the tennis business. We agreed that since we were not there for August and they were then we did not pay the rent for August .

When i think back to all this now i realize how stupid we have been in not doing things all legally .We only arrived in Spain last August and when they told us that they did not want to get a proper contract drawn up as it cost E300 and they just drew one up themselves we just believed them .
Now i have found out that the form can be downloaded online and does not cost that amount to set up a contract . So they did not do up a proper spanish contract on purpose.

The more I look into it the more stupid I can see that we have been .

i can also see now quite clearly that the wife had a picture in her head of her Holiday home and arrives out to find other peoples things there and has just frecked out .

I am contacting a friend tonight who may have somewhere for us to stay in the week we get back .

We have business meetings set up all of next week and so this is just a major pain .








Seb* said:


> If you want to fight this, you have to fly down there now. You need a good lawyer in Spain. Just calling the police won't be that easy, as you said you don't even have the rental contract and I bet all utilities are in their name as well. THEY are sitting in your house with all your stuff. They can just tell the police they own the house and don't know you. YOU have to prove that you are actually renting it. The biggest mistake you made was letting them in, while not being in the country. Just think squatters and what a massive pain it is to get those out.


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## kathyd55 (Jun 6, 2010)

on another note they have our 800 deposit and there has been no mention of that







xabiachica said:


> it was more than likely a so-called 11 month contract - which would indeed bring you to the end of august
> 
> if you pay rent monthly they have to give a month's notice - that's the law
> 
> ...


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

kathyd55 said:


> on another note they have our 800 deposit and there has been no mention of that



as for the contract....if you have _anything at all_ which states that you are paying a certain amount rent to live there, and that they have taken a deposit - and you have both signed it - then you have a contract - there doesn't have to be a lawyer involved

HOWEVER - if it isn't in Spanish it counts for nothing, as Jojo said earlier - which could actually be a good thing

if you have _any proof at all_ that you have paid rent & they have been accepting it, then you have the right to live there

even though you haven't paid august's rent - so you're just a little late paying - they can't kick you out for that - they need a court order, as I said - a 'verbal agreement' that they can use the house in august isn't worth the paper it's written on

you NEED to get here - tell them your hol in the UK is over & you're moving back in

you also need to be here to make a denuncia at the police station


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## kathyd55 (Jun 6, 2010)

xabiachica said:


> as for the contract....if you have _anything at all_ which states that you are paying a certain amount rent to live there, and that they have taken a deposit - and you have both signed it - then you have a contract - there doesn't have to be a lawyer involved
> 
> HOWEVER - if it isn't in Spanish it counts for nothing, as Jojo said earlier - which could actually be a good thing
> 
> ...



ok thank-you for this information so let me get this clear. 

First of all it was a contract they wrote up themselves and not in Spanish so worth nothing .
We can get proof from our bank account about the rent. that's no problem

If the contract ended in July are we then in trouble and can do nothing? as the contract would be over?
If it ended in August then we are ok and in effect we can fly back and move into the house and ask them to leave. 

I have a feeling they have the removal company booked for Monday so not sure we can back before that


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## kathyd55 (Jun 6, 2010)

kathyd55 said:


> ok thank-you for this information so let me get this clear.
> 
> First of all it was a contract they wrote up themselves and not in Spanish so worth nothing .
> We can get proof from our bank account about the rent. that's no problem
> ...



is there no way we can get the denuncia organised through a lawyer there .
Tony is working for BBC all of next week and just cannot get up and go back .
I have meeting and important apointments and it would be really difficult to get back in the next week


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## JoCatalunya (Mar 16, 2011)

Hi Kathy, I am so sorry you have found yourself in this position, I guess you won't be so trusting in the future which to be honest isn't such a bad thing. Some folk will always take advantage of others given the opportunity.

I do not know for sure anything about the legal minefield of rentals however, I do know the tenant has rights above and beyond the owner at times here in Spain.

My first question is, how did you pay them the rent. Was it by bank transfer, direct debit, standing order. Can you get a print out of the rent going out to their account? If you accept money for goods or services you enter into a contract (under British law) when you go to the courts to make the denuncia (perhaps it is the police station where you are in Spain I am not sure) take the proof of rent being paid. You could then bubble them to the tax man, in Spain rental income has to be declared (as it does in the UK) so either way if you paid them here in Spain or the UK it was income and someone somewhere will want their twopenneth so start writing. I know this sounds mean, but hey, they sound a right mean pair for doing what they have done so get even. 

I would suggest you send them an email and a letter recorded delivery requesting they do not remove your 'stuff' until you are back in Spain. If you can get your solicitor friend to write this letter all the better. (they may not know enough about the law to know he carries no weight over here, it will simply be a scare tactic). 

If they have already removed your 'stuff' request in an email and a letter recorded delivery (again use your friend if you can) the name, address, telephone number and if possible the email address of the company and make contact with them immediately. 

If the owners are saying you damaged their property, ask in an email / letter (recorded again) a breakdown of what they say you broke and a breakdown for repair or replacement. Then ask them again in writing for your deposit back minus the amount for repair/replacement. By law (in the UK at least) they cannot keep the whole amount if all you owe them is say 200 euros, try bluffing your way and say you have taken advice.

With regards your 'stuff', if it has been placed in storage one questions in whose name it has been placed there? As far as I know whenever you do anything here in Spain companies ask for your NIE number and/or passport number. Which leads me to think if the company is a legit one they will insist they place the 'stuff' in storage under the holiday home owners own name. Which means they are liable for the bill, but also means you cannot get the 'stuff' out as it isn't in your name. If it is in your name then I would question the company as to who is liable for the bill. If they say you, when you return to Spain and go to collect the items in storage I would ask them to show you the contract which you must have signed. If your name appears on the contract and your signature has been forged, call the police immediately. 

If the woman refuses to tell you where your 'stuff' is in storage, call the police, do not waste any time, if it isn't still in the house and you can prove you bought it, (check your credit card bills and your bank statements for proof now) you can try doing her for theft. If your items are worth more than 1500 it is a serious offence (here in Catalunya at least). If the stuff is still in the house and she is using it, again, try doing her for theft, hey what have you got to lose?

Good luck and do keep us informed about what happens, you never know someone else might need this kind of help and your experience could help others stay/get out of trouble.


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## JoCatalunya (Mar 16, 2011)

Kathy, just because your contract isnt in Spanish isnt such a bad thing, neither is the fact that it was a home made job, under Spanish law you have rights, if you can prove you have been paying rent you have the same rights to protection as someone who has an all singing all dancing contract in Spanish.


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## kathyd55 (Jun 6, 2010)

JoCatalunya said:


> Kathy, just because your contract isnt in Spanish isnt such a bad thing, neither is the fact that it was a home made job, under Spanish law you have rights, if you can prove you have been paying rent you have the same rights to protection as someone who has an all singing all dancing contract in Spanish.


i really appreciate all this information and i hope that it will help someone who finds themselves in the same position.

I am worried about the fact that we do not know when our contract ended ...July or August .Looking at it even if it was July they still have to give us a months notice .


really really thank -you for all this info


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## mdavidfrost (Aug 13, 2011)

*long term property rental contracts in Spain*



Boaz7648 said:


> Hi all
> 
> My first posting here. Can any one send me a copy in English of a long term property rental contract? Thanks in advance.


My wife and I have a property rented out and the contract is in Spanish. I doubt if it's legal if it's in English.

Even though our tenant has been in the property for years, *we give him a new contract every 11 months, to avoid his having security of tenure*.

David


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## thrax (Nov 13, 2008)

kathyd55 said:


> Well since my last email we have had contact to say that they have booked a removal company already as they have builders coming in next week so not we are getting to the real reason why they want our stuff out .
> 
> They have asked if they could put the insulin in a friends house or the school where i work.
> 
> At this stage I am beginning to feel like a criminal and not exactly sure what we have done wrong .


Oh well, they are obviously bankers - ooops another Spanish keyboard inspired spelling mistake


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

mdavidfrost said:


> My wife and I have a property rented out and the contract is in Spanish. I doubt if it's legal if it's in English.
> 
> Even though our tenant has been in the property for years, *we give him a new contract every 11 months, to avoid his having security of tenure*.
> 
> David


it doesn't avoid that at all

if he is there more than 12 months he automatically has security of tenure - doesn't matter if he gets a new contract every week, month, 3 months, 11 months whatever - or even if he doesn't even have a contract

if he is paying rent & you are accepting it - once it gets past 12 months he automatically has security of tenure


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## kathyd55 (Jun 6, 2010)

xabiachica said:


> as for the contract....if you have _anything at all_ which states that you are paying a certain amount rent to live there, and that they have taken a deposit - and you have both signed it - then you have a contract - there doesn't have to be a lawyer involved
> 
> HOWEVER - if it isn't in Spanish it counts for nothing, as Jojo said earlier - which could actually be a good thing
> 
> ...



We have gone on the advice of the solicitor and have text them today to say that
they have to give us 30 days notice and if they touch or remove our property illegally we are going to sue them .We have also asked them for a breakdown of anything that they feel is wrong with the house and the cost to repair it .

This text was sent at 1.00 and then we followed up with an email tonight .
We are also sending a registered letter with the same info in the post first thing on Monday morning .

We have had no response from them. Our solicitor has told us that if they go ahead with this then we should go down the road of suing them .

I am trying to make contact with a Spanish lawyer to serve a denuncia.

I know we should get back there but it is really difficult to do so.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

kathyd55 said:


> We have gone on the advice of the solicitor and have text them today to say that
> they have to give us 30 days notice and if they touch or remove our property illegally we are going to sue them .We have also asked them for a breakdown of anything that they feel is wrong with the house and the cost to repair it .
> 
> This text was sent at 1.00 and then we followed up with an email tonight .
> ...


short of going there, I think you're doing all you can, I think

good luck & keep us posted


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## thrax (Nov 13, 2008)

xabiachica said:


> it doesn't avoid that at all
> 
> if he is there more than 12 months he automatically has security of tenure - doesn't matter if he gets a new contract every week, month, 3 months, 11 months whatever - or even if he doesn't even have a contract
> 
> if he is paying rent & you are accepting it - once it gets past 12 months he automatically has security of tenure


Are you absolutely certain about that? I was under the impression that the entire reason for the 11 month contract for long term rents here in Spain was to avoid security of tenure plus other tennant rights which makes it very difficult to remove, for example, non paying tenants. Our lawyer chum (Spanish) is certainly under that impression. Where we are currently renting (we are moving in two weeks) the landlord also seems to believe that there is no security of tenure with 11 month contracts even on renewal. Or am I spectaculalry missing the point (always likely with a brain as pickled as mine).


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

thrax said:


> Are you absolutely certain about that? I was under the impression that the entire reason for the 11 month contract for long term rents here in Spain was to avoid security of tenure plus other tennant rights which makes it very difficult to remove, for example, non paying tenants. Our lawyer chum (Spanish) is certainly under that impression. Where we are currently renting (we are moving in two weeks) the landlord also seems to believe that there is no security of tenure with 11 month contracts even on renewal. Or am I spectaculalry missing the point (always likely with a brain as pickled as mine).


a non paying tenant can still be removed - it has to go through the courts no matter what kind of contract is in place

most people miss the point on this one - if it's your primary residence, & you've been there for 12 months or more, and obviously paying the rent, (and all other things being OK) it doesn't matter what contract you have - or indeed don't have

if it ever came to court, the court would consider that a temp contract isn't appropriate & you would be treated as having security of tenure

the only way the landlord could then demand his property back before the end of 5 years is if he personally intends to live in it (or I think immediate family ie kids/parents) - and he doesn't just have to say he wants to - he actually has to do it


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## kathyd55 (Jun 6, 2010)

xabiachica said:


> short of going there, I think you're doing all you can, I think
> 
> good luck & keep us posted



thank-you for all your help. As of yet we are getting no communication whatsoever. they do not even volunteer to tell us the name of the removal company and so at this moment in time we do not know what is happening .

For whatever reason they went to a solicitor I have no idea .We paid on time, we looked after thier property and actually went beyond what normal tenants would do 

.I think they went to a solicitor because they know that they cannot do what they are doing and were doing scare tactics with us not expecting us to come back at them

I know earlier in the thread that we talked about do we actually not sit back or just move on but after talking to them nicely and Tony telling them I was sick with worry and we are a family that have all our school stuff there and where is our stuff going etc etc and please could they let us come back and move our stuff and they are still going ahead with moving then it made me really cross and I felt I just was not going to take this ,

She was texting us for 4 texts and then stopped obviously because she was told by solicitor to not communicate...neat eh?

You throw the processions of a family out of the house and do not have the decency to tell them where their belongings are going. This is also a family that were never late with their payments ,kindly went back to the UK to allow them to use the house.....no wonder I feel really hateful towards them now.


The registered letter is going on Monday and we are also going on the advice of the forum to flag them up to the Tax man about their rental income .

Just disgraceful ..the whole thing


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## kathyd55 (Jun 6, 2010)

xabiachica said:


> a non paying tenant can still be removed - it has to go through the courts no matter what kind of contract is in place
> 
> most people miss the point on this one - if it's your primary residence, & you've been there for 12 months or more, and obviously paying the rent, (and all other things being OK) it doesn't matter what contract you have - or indeed don't have
> 
> ...


just an update for everyone on the forum who has been helping us with advice. 
We have got a place to stay when we get back .A fellow teacher has a cottage on her property and has told us we can stay there no problem so at least we have a place to live when we get back.

We want to go back to ojen as we have friends there and like the village so at least it gives us time to look.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

kathyd55 said:


> just an update for everyone on the forum who has been helping us with advice.
> We have got a place to stay when we get back .A fellow teacher has a cottage on her property and has told us we can stay there no problem so at least we have a place to live when we get back.
> 
> We want to go back to ojen as we have friends there and like the village so at least it gives us time to look.



Excellent! A happy ending!!


Jo xxx


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## kathyd55 (Jun 6, 2010)

jojo said:


> Excellent! A happy ending!!e a dog that i have to pick up from kennels
> 
> 
> Jo xxx


well not really Jojo ,we still have not been told where our stuff is going ,we still have not been told who is paying for it,we still have had no communication as to what is happening.
Our deposit of 800 is with them etc etc .
I have a dog that I have to pick up from kennels and I just do not have allot of spare money to pay for storage etc .
As it was mentioned if they have put the stuff in their name then we cannot get it out and if it is in our name then they have forged our signature.

I have also been told that to move us out before the end of the contract they need a court order so I will be sending them a text today and a follow up email asking about that .

it is really difficult for us to get back but I am temped to do that and cancel all my appointments for next week and sue them for loss of earnings etc

problem is I have a very important Hospital appointment that I have to have before I return to Spain and Tony is working with the BBC. Without boring you with the details the hospital appointment is a follow up meeting after a brain scan.

the possibility of surgery is lurking there as well.

We have not told the kids about the house yet and all their "stuff" being moved . we want to get it all settled first. They will be upset I know so I have kept them in the dark so far.


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## kathyd55 (Jun 6, 2010)

kathyd55 said:


> well not really Jojo ,we still have not been told where our stuff is going ,we still have not been told who is paying for it,we still have had no communication as to what is happening.
> Our deposit of 800 is with them etc etc .
> I have a dog that I have to pick up from kennels and I just do not have allot of spare money to pay for storage etc .
> As it was mentioned if they have put the stuff in their name then we cannot get it out and if it is in our name then they have forged our signature.
> ...



on another note I have been reading up on the Spanish law and can see quite clearly that what they are doing is 100% illegal .Will give you an update later but will be asking them for a court order today .


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

kathyd55 said:


> well not really Jojo ,we still have not been told where our stuff is going ,we still have not been told who is paying for it,we still have had no communication as to what is happening.
> Our deposit of 800 is with them etc etc .
> I have a dog that I have to pick up from kennels and I just do not have allot of spare money to pay for storage etc .
> As it was mentioned if they have put the stuff in their name then we cannot get it out and if it is in our name then they have forged our signature.
> ...


I know. I went thru an anger phase with my situation, I still am angry - very angry, but maybe its age, maybe its laziness, or simply the massive task of suing, denuncing etc, but it seems too much to go thru. Our owners are french and the language barrier has made our situation worse. So in many ways, the hassle of suing etc seems too much for very little gain.

What really annoys me about our situation is they only wanted their property back from us so they could rent it out as a holiday let and make a fortune - apparently they had new tenants in within days of us leaving

I think my "happy ending" comment was more to do with how I'd like our situation to end. We're stuck in the UK at the moment, alot of our stuff and our car is in storage in Spain, my job is being kept for me there, but no place to go yet. The holiday season has reduced our property options, so we thought we'd wait til the end of August and then start looking again. I have friends looking too, but we're in "limbo"" for now and I hate it.

Jo xxx


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## kathyd55 (Jun 6, 2010)

jojo said:


> I know. I went thru an anger phase with my situation, I still am angry - very angry, but maybe its age, maybe its laziness, or simply the massive task of suing, denuncing etc, but it seems too much to go thru. Our owners are french and the language barrier has made our situation worse. So in many ways, the hassle of suing etc seems too much for very little gain.
> 
> What really annoys me about our situation is they only wanted their property back from us so they could rent it out as a holiday let and make a fortune - apparently they had new tenants in within days of us leaving
> 
> ...



Well lets just say of all people I know exactly how you feel!

I know what you are saying about the anger aspect and yes I agree with the whole hassle of the legal proceedings etc .
My concern at the moment is that they do not put our stuff in storage. I just do not want to get back and have our stuff packed away somewhere .All I want is for them to leave it there and then we can move it.

I have checked up in Spanish law that it is illegal to remove someones processions from the property and all I can do now is wait until we get back and if our stuff has been removed then go to the police .

I think the owners wife made an emotional statement without thinking it through and maybe now because we did not roll over and play dead she may have re thought the situation. 
I just cannot believe that a solicitor would advise them to do that?

Anyway at the moment we have had no communication so just do not know what is happening.

I will keep you all updated on the Ojen soap as it develops!


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## JoCatalunya (Mar 16, 2011)

I personally doubt very much a lawyer told the owner to remove your 'stuff', what I think has happened is she threw in the word lawyer to scare you, to make you think she had right on her side. Which she obviously does/did not. 

I remember once when my son was renting a place in the UK our contract ended on the Friday but we had moved out on the Monday, (he had found a better flat for less money in a nicer area). Rather than go to the expense of using removal men my son and I did the removals ourselves, (he owned a big van at the time). Imagine our horror to discover (Wednesday morning) a man standing half in half out the flat changing the locks. I asked him what he was doing and he told me to F*** off. Now that is a red rag to anyones son as you can imagine, however, my son stayed calm and I told the man to stop what he was doing right now. Up marched the owner of the flat and well long story short I was slammed back against the wall, tempers got the better of the owner and his lock changing friend and they ended up arrested. I used the law as was my right as a tenant to protect me. 

Whilst the law is an ass at times in Spain, (here in Catalunya it is an asses backside, but that is a different story) it pays you to use the law where ever you can when reason has been thrown out of the window. 

Good luck.


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## kathyd55 (Jun 6, 2010)

JoCatalunya said:


> I personally doubt very much a lawyer told the owner to remove your 'stuff', what I think has happened is she threw in the word lawyer to scare you, to make you think she had right on her side. Which she obviously does/did not.
> 
> I remember once when my son was renting a place in the UK our contract ended on the Friday but we had moved out on the Monday, (he had found a better flat for less money in a nicer area). Rather than go to the expense of using removal men my son and I did the removals ourselves, (he owned a big van at the time). Imagine our horror to discover (Wednesday morning) a man standing half in half out the flat changing the locks. I asked him what he was doing and he told me to F*** off. Now that is a red rag to anyones son as you can imagine, however, my son stayed calm and I told the man to stop what he was doing right now. Up marched the owner of the flat and well long story short I was slammed back against the wall, tempers got the better of the owner and his lock changing friend and they ended up arrested. I used the law as was my right as a tenant to protect me.
> 
> ...



yes I agree with you and the more we have looked into Spanish law on property and tenants I also have my doubts that a solicitor advised them to remove our stuff. 
I think basically that in her stupidity and emotional distraught at having people live in her Holiday home something that she cannot deal with then she has used the word solicitor to maybe scare us .I guess she though we would just accept it and take it lying down .

Anyway it is anyone's guess right now as we are receiving no communication so who knows what is going through her head and what is happening .

I am relaxed about the situation now as I have been doing lots of research and am comfortable about the law on this aspect.
No matter what angle we look at this we really have not done anything wrong and they are totally off the wall with what they say they are going to do . If they do go ahead they can literally be arrested although they will be back in the UK at that time.

I have friends looking for another place for us in the village and of course another friend is able to give us accommodation when we get back. When we get back we still have a key and will go straight to the house. If she has moved any of our stuff out then we are going straight to the Police.

For now I am just leaving it. I have text and emailed and sent a registered letter to say that we will take legal action against them if they move our property and so there is not much more I can do.


on another aspect my daughters diabetic injections are in the fridge and she told me a few days ago that she can leave them at the school or at a friends house...imagine it...nearly at the stage where I feel she has totally lost the plot .
I wonder how the police would react when we tell them that my daughters medication has been moved and she has a life threatening condition

Silly silly woman...


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## kathyd55 (Jun 6, 2010)

JoCatalunya said:


> I personally doubt very much a lawyer told the owner to remove your 'stuff', what I think has happened is she threw in the word lawyer to scare you, to make you think she had right on her side. Which she obviously does/did not.
> 
> I remember once when my son was renting a place in the UK our contract ended on the Friday but we had moved out on the Monday, (he had found a better flat for less money in a nicer area). Rather than go to the expense of using removal men my son and I did the removals ourselves, (he owned a big van at the time). Imagine our horror to discover (Wednesday morning) a man standing half in half out the flat changing the locks. I asked him what he was doing and he told me to F*** off. Now that is a red rag to anyones son as you can imagine, however, my son stayed calm and I told the man to stop what he was doing right now. Up marched the owner of the flat and well long story short I was slammed back against the wall, tempers got the better of the owner and his lock changing friend and they ended up arrested. I used the law as was my right as a tenant to protect me.
> 
> ...


just to add to the entertainment we have looked over past emails from the owners .
In a few emails she has asked us if we want to stay on in the house as she has a friend interested in letting for a few weeks in September. if we wanted to stay on then they have no problem with that . We emailed back saying that we wanted to remain in the house and she accepted that

So it gets more and more interesting and it looks like she may want to rent it for more money for September but they only told us they were not renewing lease in mid August. From the emails it seems that our contract was until July which gives us August as a months notice. Again the contract was not in spanish so means nothing anyway .

it gets more and more interesting all the time.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

kathyd55 said:


> just to add to the entertainment we have looked over past emails from the owners .
> In a few emails she has asked us if we want to stay on in the house as she has a friend interested in letting for a few weeks in September. if we wanted to stay on then they have no problem with that . We emailed back saying that we wanted to remain in the house and she accepted that
> 
> So it gets more and more interesting and it looks like she may want to rent it for more money for September but they only told us they were not renewing lease in mid August. From the emails it seems that our contract was until July which gives us August as a months notice. Again the contract was not in spanish so means nothing anyway .
> ...



You and your anger at the injustice are so like mine! I have many contradicting e-mails from my landlady and the agent and some down right offensive ones, accusing ME of lying, accusing me of wanting to leave the property, of beng indecisive, not paying the rent or bills, she even had my phone cut off at one point eventho I had paid her the bill (I paid everything on time). I ended up having to go and pay it again to movistar.... ooohhh. you're opening up old wounds lol!!!!

In the end altho I knew I was in the right, I had to let it go. I personally couldnt cope with the insecurity, the fight or the hassle, so we came back to the UK to "re-group" and here we are in limboland. 

Jo xxxx


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## kathyd55 (Jun 6, 2010)

jojo said:


> You and your anger at the injustice are so like mine! I have many contradicting e-mails from my landlady and the agent and some down right offensive ones, accusing ME of lying, accusing me of wanting to leave the property, of beng indecisive, not paying the rent or bills, she even had my phone cut off at one point eventho I had paid her the bill (I paid everything on time). I ended up having to go and pay it again to movistar.... ooohhh. you're opening up old wounds lol!!!!
> 
> In the end altho I knew I was in the right, I had to let it go. I personally couldnt cope with the insecurity, the fight or the hassle, so we came back to the UK to "re-group" and here we are in limboland.
> 
> Jo xxxx


We are back in the UK until the 24th August .
I return to school at end of August and I have 2 teenage girls in tow. 
I also have a dog in the kennels that I have to pick up as well so we are definitely going back, Where we are going to live ..well who knows. We have our cars ,trailer and dog in Ojen and the teachers house offer is towards Estapona.

Spain ?.......don,t yeh just love it!


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## pigscanfly (Feb 2, 2010)

I can't begin to understand what you are going through with this type of hassle. It sounds to me that you are all alone in your fights with the landlords and that is the problem. You really need to arrange your rental through a reliable agent. Ours is great they are spanish but lived in UK. They are always at the end of the phone, will always help out, no charge, even took us to Malaga to get NIE's and town hall to register, they will not let out a house without being 100% about the owner and property and always has engish & spanish contracts. When we drove down to spain they found us a nice apartment for 3 months while they spent 10 days showing us round long term properties, been down here for 4 years now and not a problem in sight. Find a good agent its worth its weight in gold

best wishes


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

pigscanfly said:


> I can't begin to understand what you are going through with this type of hassle. It sounds to me that you are all alone in your fights with the landlords and that is the problem. You really need to arrange your rental through a reliable agent. Ours is great they are spanish but lived in UK. They are always at the end of the phone, will always help out, no charge, even took us to Malaga to get NIE's and town hall to register, they will not let out a house without being 100% about the owner and property and always has engish & spanish contracts. When we drove down to spain they found us a nice apartment for 3 months while they spent 10 days showing us round long term properties, been down here for 4 years now and not a problem in sight. Find a good agent its worth its weight in gold
> 
> best wishes


I can only think of one good agent who covers the El Grande area (thats not to say there arent others)!!? However, not everyone wants to go thru agents cos of cost availability etc. I've used several agents since living in Spain and I am good friends with a few of them, ultimately, they tend to side with the owners cos thats usually where their next business will come from

Jo xxx


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## pigscanfly (Feb 2, 2010)

jojo said:


> I can only think of one good agent who covers the El Grande area (thats not to say there arent others)!!? However, not everyone wants to go thru agents cos of cost availability etc. I've used several agents since living in Spain and I am good friends with a few of them, ultimately, they tend to side with the owners cos thats usually where their next business will come from
> 
> Jo xxx


Understand what you are saying but what is a little cost against the mental torture that some are put through. Also we have never paid any costs, the agents fees have always been paid by the owner. I suppose we have just been lucky.

best regards


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

pigscanfly said:


> Understand what you are saying but what is a little cost against the mental torture that some are put through. Also we have never paid any costs, the agents fees have always been paid by the owner. I suppose we have just been lucky.
> 
> best regards


Indeed! But finding a decent agent isnt easy! And some people have good experiences with the same agents that others have bad experiences with. Then of course there are bad tenants who may blame the agents, then you have the bad landlords who cause the agents grief and to maybe act incorrectly...... and so it goes on!!! 

I would recommend using an agent when first moving over, just as a safety net and to help with the language, inspite of the possible cost (usually one months finders fee), but thereonafter its not always necessary

Jo xxx


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## kathyd55 (Jun 6, 2010)

jojo said:


> Indeed! But finding a decent agent isnt easy! And some people have good experiences with the same agents that others have bad experiences with. Then of course there are bad tenants who may blame the agents, then you have the bad landlords who cause the agents grief and to maybe act incorrectly...... and so it goes on!!!
> 
> I would recommend using an agent when first moving over, just as a safety net and to help with the language, inspite of the possible cost (usually one months finders fee), but thereonafter its not always necessary
> 
> Jo xxx



Well thought it would be time for an update as to what is happening .

We had 2 days of silence up to today when we have had 4 phone calls [did not accept] I suspect that that our email last night may be the cause .


We have consulted with a solicitor ,friend of ours and he has instructed us what to say in an email to them .
Basically we have told them that should we arrive back in Ojen to find our belongings gone then we shall regard it as theft and will take appropriate action [ie police]
Should they move my daughters insulin from the fridge where it is at the optimum temp and it then becomes useless then they will be liable for the cost of new insulin.

If on our return we do not get access to her insulin and she becomes sick as a result they will be held liable.

If we are not able to enter the house on our return and as a result are rendered homeless then they will be liable for the costs of accommodation for a 30 days period from their initial text when they told us our tenancy was terminated.

Any cost that are incurred by their actions in denying us access to the house will have to be compensated for .

Our solicitor here has told us not too enlist a Spanish lawyer until we return 24th and find no access to the house and our belongings gone .
He says that they may backtrack and only when we return and are in that situation do we take action. he feels that at this stage there is no need for extra costs

Since we sent that email last night we have had 3 calls today and a text that said .." contact me now i am at the solicitor" ......... yeh right !!!......i think we will rush to do that!

We have no idea about what is happening ...nothing as regards removal company or anything.

My emotions have changed now from disbelief to anger and now calmness and knowledge of what we have to do .We have printed off the emails and have sent them registered mail also .

We have an offer of somewhere to stay on our return and still do not know what i am going to do with my dog who I am collecting from the kennels the day after .He cannot stay with us so unless a friend can look after him then he may have to go into the shelter until we find a place.

I am back at school 4 days after i get back and need to do preparation ,so that is something we will bring up as well .
We put internet into the house that we are paying 58 a month for so that has to come into the equation as well .

The school i work at has many wealthy parents and the owners have very good connections .If we need a lawyer then I am going to do some asking there when I get back and i am sure they can put me on to someone good

Of course at this stage I am trying to keep my negativity under control .Sometimes I feel that it is a good thing that my daughters are in the middle of their IGCSEs as I would be tempted to not go back .
My job here at the college is open for three years so it would be easy to slot back in .
However it would be really difficult for my kids so we are definitely going back .
Also Tony's tennis business is starting to happen so another reason there as well.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Here's my tuppence-worth...
Do not let these people get away with this. They sound like the kind of British ignoramuses who make me ashamed to be British. Probably come into the ten-bob millionaire category too....bought the property in Spain on a mortgage they are having difficulties in paying.
They are selfish b******s who have treated you as objects for their convenience. They are clearly ignorant of the law and I doubt very much if they could spell solicitor let alone afford to or know how to instruct one.
How dare they touch your belongings.....if that happened to me I would immediately track them down and after giving them a verbal going-over which thery wouldn't forget I'd bring the full force of the law down on them. Go for the jugular..issue a denuncia, sue, do whatever you can to pierce their selfish disregard for others.
But with respect I think you probably have learnt that renting a home is a serious matter. Never accept a 'verbal' agreement. Ensure everything is done correctly according to Spanish law. Keep copies or notes with times and dates of all correspondence with agents and landlords. Both parties must bear in mind that renting is a business arrangement so both parties musrt conduct themselves in a business-like manner.
These people seem frankly to be trash. They deserve no respect so make them pay for what they have done.


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## Trevor Reeve (Oct 24, 2010)

*long Term rental contract*



Boaz7648 said:


> Hi all
> 
> My first posting here. Can any one send me a copy in English of a long term property rental contract? Thanks in advance.


Would also be grateful to recieve as thinking about leetiung our apartment out for long term

Trevor


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## Guest (Aug 17, 2011)

Someone´s _definitely_ had their weetabix 

I have to agree with Mary on this one. This is not a informal arrangement, it is a business one. Regardless of the verbal agreement, you still have a very strong case. Spanish tenancy law is actually quite balanced and provides tenants with a robust set of rights. Pursue those rights vigorously.

If I was in your shoes, I´d be retaining a Spanish lawyer. Hell, I´d contact the Police and explain the situation, I´m sure they´d take a dim view of you being locked out of "your" house and your personal goods being removed without your express approval. Not quite tantamount to theft, but probably not far off.

Can you get one of your friends in the village to have a word with the local police? Ditto lawyer. Far better to get this stuf done in situ and not remotely from UK.

As someone else stated, if the goods have been removed and put in storage, it would certainly not be in your name, as you would need to present proof of ID, NIE etc. So, if the relationship with these people breaks down further, I can´t see them going down to the storage place to assist you in recovery your gear.

So, a visit from a lawyer and/or the police should certainly make them stop and consider their actions. Well, you´d hope so...

I really feel for you, you´ve been well and truly shafted by these people and, for that, they need to be held to account.

Good luck with this!

Y x


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## kathyd55 (Jun 6, 2010)

mrypg9 said:


> Here's my tuppence-worth...
> Do not let these people get away with this. They sound like the kind of British ignoramuses who make me ashamed to be British. Probably come into the ten-bob millionaire category too....bought the property in Spain on a mortgage they are having difficulties in paying.
> They are selfish b******s who have treated you as objects for their convenience. They are clearly ignorant of the law and I doubt very much if they could spell solicitor let alone afford to or know how to instruct one.
> How dare they touch your belongings.....if that happened to me I would immediately track them down and after giving them a verbal going-over which thery wouldn't forget I'd bring the full force of the law down on them. Go for the jugular..issue a denuncia, sue, do whatever you can to pierce their selfish disregard for others.
> ...



Well we received an email from the husband. following our email to them a day ago from our solicitor.
Reading between the lines I can see that they have realized that we are not going to take this lying down and he has asked if we could sort this out amicably. 

interesting seeing as that is what we wanted to do from the beginning. He has asked this instead of going down the road of solicitors bills we could discuss a few options.

When i read through his options the first thing I can see is that our stuff is still in the house. So her story of the removal company was a scare tactic and either the company was organised and cancelled or never organized.

Secondly the two options given are cleverly constructed so that we choose the option that says we move out of the house the day we get back.

To summarise what they have said .

Option 1 is that we move out of the house on the 24 on the day we arrive back and he will pay removal costs for our stuff . [no mention of deposit] We will have no other costs

Option 2 
Here he has mentioned that yes we are correct in that we are entitled to stay in the house until mid September which is 30 days from their original text. We can do that but then we are liable for the cost of some repairs and also the electricity bill July ...no problem and August {E200} when we were not there!
We also have to pay rates and the total cost they will be charging us is 1337 less our deposit.

of course looking at the two options you think well lets just move out on the 24 and lose our deposit and leave it at that .

Well call me stupid but what i see are costs loaded to make us go for the option of moving out the day we arrive back .

They are charging us rates ...illegal ,hoover repair ..we never used it ..I do not know what it looks like. New clothes horse ... their clothes horse broke and so we bought another and left it there .By the way the cost they say for that is 30....the one they had was 10 in El campo.

30 E to fix a corner of a cushion and so it goes on .
They have loaded the costs to make it way over the deposit but in option one where we move out the day we are back then they are keeping our deposit and that will pay for everything anyway!!!!

Interesting that this was not written by a solicitor ...what a pack of bull****ters.

He has put forward two options and i have to confess has been very clever the way he has done this .

If we went for the second option to stay in the house i can guarantee that any repairs we would do would be well below what they state.Most of them we did not do anyway .
Paying the electricity bill is what we do anyway .no big deal

Anyway i am going to call the solicitor friend of ours and read the letter through and I shall keep you updated .

So from threatening us with removal of our stuff they are now offering us options ...neat..... not sure there has ever been a solicitor here


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## Guest (Aug 17, 2011)

First thing to do is sleep on it. 

Apart from contacting your solicitor, do nothing else today. Have a glass of something nice and get a good nights kip. Talk it over with OH tomorrow, once some of the emotions have subsided.

Re damages - I can´t remember if you had an inventory? If yes, consult it and compare to what they´re claiming is damaged etc. If not, then it is simply their word against yours and given their recent conduct, threats etc., this would/could(?) put them on a sticky wicket, if you serious legal on their asses.

Where you replaced things, write all of this down and pass it to the solicitor. Fair wear and tear is assumed on certain items, as opposed to, say, replacing a rug due to wine spill. I´m not suggesting you split hairs on this, but they are pre-loading the argument to make sure you go for the "move out/move on" option, leaving them with some extra wedge. Get your solicitor to challenge this with a well phrased letter. Who knows, common sense might prevail and they might wake up to the fact they´ve picked on the wrong people to fight with.

Also, with regards to the deposit, I had issues with my landlady here, decided to move out one month early and she threw her toys out the pram, threatened to hold my deposit and charge me extra for some really daft things. She wanted to charge me 400€ to replace the boiler, despite the fact it was goosed from day one and I had her and her son come around to look at it on several occasions. Had also put it in writing to her in second week of moving in. She had "forgetten that", but I made sure a reputable friend was with me when they came over.

When I pointed out this and that there is an adjucation panel specifically set up for this sort of thing and that they were obliged to rule within two weeks of a case being raised, she changed her tune sharpish. Got my deposit back, minus 14€ for a bottle of gas.

I´ll try and dig out the details and PM them to you.

Keep a level head, talk with OH and speak to your solicitor. 

Don´t forget the glass of something nice. It helps!


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## JoCatalunya (Mar 16, 2011)

Act in haste, repent at leisure, or something like that, so sit back and have a nice relaxing evening and let them stew.

With regards the repairs, I would ask to see estimates from proper tradesmen with regards on headed paper, NIE numbers clearly visible. Then see if the repair bill is forthcoming. I somehow bet it won't be. However, if by some miracle you do get quotes for repair/replacement you will at least know for sure if they are trying to rob you or not.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

kathyd55 said:


> Well we received an email from the husband. following our email to them a day ago from our solicitor.
> Reading between the lines I can see that they have realized that we are not going to take this lying down and he has asked if we could sort this out amicably.
> 
> interesting seeing as that is what we wanted to do from the beginning. He has asked this instead of going down the road of solicitors bills we could discuss a few options.
> ...


Of course there was no solicitor. These are chavs. You have them on the back foot.
Do not pay anything you think unfair or unreasonable. Do not pay bills for electricity etc. you have not used. You will not see your deposit so stay another month. You could try threatening them with a denuncia if they keep your deposit but they probably don't have the money so I'd stay put. That's what we did with the crooked agent we previously rented from. We stayed two months until we'd used up our deposit. There is nothing they can do.
They are probably regretting their stupidity (assuming they have the brains to recognise how stupid they are) and are thinking of ways to get out of the situation they have caused.
They need to be taught a lesson so they do not try to treat others in this disgraceful manner.
Go for it. :boxing:


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## kathyd55 (Jun 6, 2010)

mrypg9 said:


> Of course there was no solicitor. These are chavs. You have them on the back foot.
> Do not pay anything you think unfair or unreasonable. Do not pay bills for electricity etc. you have not used. You will not see your deposit so stay another month. You could try threatening them with a denuncia if they keep your deposit but they probably don't have the money so I'd stay put. That's what we did with the crooked agent we previously rented from. We stayed two months until we'd used up our deposit. There is nothing they can do.
> They are probably regretting their stupidity (assuming they have the brains to recognise how stupid they are) and are thinking of ways to get out of the situation they have caused.
> They need to be taught a lesson so they do not try to treat others in this disgraceful manner.
> Go for it. :boxing:


I guess that I am not so stupid that i could not read between the lines as to what they were up to .Yes we have got them on the back foot and yes they have been lying all along about removal company etc...very cruel.

I rang our solicitor tonight and read him the letter .He has told us exactly what to do .
He says go for the option where we stay in the house until 11th September. We will move our own stuff before that date. 

Take photos of the house and condition of everything .Get photographic evidence of everything in case they accuse us of damaging their house.

Design a letter and go through the aspects they are charging us for that is not our responsibility like rates ,August Electricity etc..
By the way there was never an inventory.
In this option he says he is flying out on the 12th to get costs of repairs. A total of E1335.....not surprising when the ripped corner of a cushion cost 45 E in Akea?...ha

Solicitor says have everything moved out of the house and greet him on the 12 th with our letter disputing these costs.
Then Tell him that we are not paying him a cent kick him in the B....s for putting us through such mental anguish and get up and walk away.!

Also make sure that we pay nothing into their account,no electricity ,no rent nothing.

Solicitor says that it will be very costly and take a long time to go to court about this .he basically said tell him to go to hell for what he has put our family through.he said do not even feel bad .

We have also been told to reply in a very subdued manner and make it amicable that we would like to accept option 1. Do not say too much and just leave it at that.

I am not a person who likes to be nasty .In fact i hate conflict but we are going to do this. 
In fact we have been told that if we wanted to we could sue them for the lies and mental anguish they have caused us .

So writing an email tomorrow and move on from there.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Trevor Reeve said:


> Would also be grateful to recieve as thinking about leetiung our apartment out for long term
> 
> Trevor


hi

have a read through the thread - lots of useful info, including the fact that a 'standard' contract is available in estancos (among other places) for just a few euros

or you can simply have your own tailor-made one, although you'd be well-advised to at least use the standard one as a basis to work from


bear in mind that to have any standing in law the contract MUST be in spanish


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

kathyd55 said:


> Well we received an email from the husband. following our email to them a day ago from our solicitor.
> Reading between the lines I can see that they have realized that we are not going to take this lying down and he has asked if we could sort this out amicably.
> 
> interesting seeing as that is what we wanted to do from the beginning. He has asked this instead of going down the road of solicitors bills we could discuss a few options.
> ...


yep - that's the first lesson tenants learn...........agents/owners ALWAYS seem to manage to spend your deposit on 'repairs' - and sometimes manage to claim you owe them even more money


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## Happyexpat (Apr 4, 2011)

As the 'agent' for my mother in laws apartment I can assure you that it isn't just tenants that get ripped off. We have had a number of really bad experiences, no rent paid, considerable damage, theft and people doing a moonlight owing electricity, rent etc.
It is far from esy renting out property, especially in Spain. I really do sympathise with this thread but please don't tar all agents / landlords with the same brush.


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## JoCatalunya (Mar 16, 2011)

Happyexpat said:


> As the 'agent' for my mother in laws apartment I can assure you that it isn't just tenants that get ripped off. We have had a number of really bad experiences, no rent paid, considerable damage, theft and people doing a moonlight owing electricity, rent etc.
> It is far from esy renting out property, especially in Spain. I really do sympathise with this thread but please don't tar all agents / landlords with the same brush.



How right you are, fact is there are good and bad on both sides of the street when it comes to renting a place.
I do not think for one second any of us are blackballing all agents/landlords, just the pair that have treat this family seemingly so badly. 
A little civilility, compassion and commonsense would have been so much more productive and less upsetting for all concerned.


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## Happyexpat (Apr 4, 2011)

I really cannot figure why these landlords are acting the way they are. It doesn't make any sense, business or emotional wise. There has to be another reason behind all this!


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Happyexpat said:


> I really cannot figure why these landlords are acting the way they are. It doesn't make any sense, business or emotional wise. There has to be another reason behind all this!



Yes. They are selfish, greedy, thoughtless and very dim.


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## Happyexpat (Apr 4, 2011)

*Some of it*

Selfish, thoughtless and very dim I can easily go along with. They are also probably greedy but they could make more money by behaving reasonably, especially in this case which makes me think there is a hidden agenda.

Either that or they are not dim, they are totally stupid! I wonder if they are reading this, might be worth drawing their attention to the thread.....



mrypg9 said:


> Yes. They are selfish, greedy, thoughtless and very dim.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Happyexpat said:


> Selfish, thoughtless and very dim I can easily go along with. They are also probably greedy but they could make more money by behaving reasonably, especially in this case which makes me think there is a hidden agenda.
> 
> Either that or they are not dim, they are totally stupid! I wonder if they are reading this, might be worth drawing their attention to the thread.....



I hope so. They have put Kathy and her family through hell. They should know what people think of them...they might, just might, feel shame...
Renting is a two-sided transaction as you say and we've experienced both sides. 
We bought and rented out a property in Canada whilst still in the UK with no problems whatsoever -we became friends with our tenants who have now moved on and we sold the property five years ago - but ...dare I say...there is a different attitude in Canada, at least where we bought, in the Ottawa Valley. We bought in a small town (pop.4500) where everyone knew everyone and a good reputation was important.
There are some odd folk here in Spain though.....Chancers, ten-bob millionaires, people who shouldn't be allowed to visit the Isle of Wight let alone the rest of Europe. No wonder the reputation of Brits abroad is so poor.
I think it is very difficult for an absentee landlord to deal with troublesome tenants here. My son and dil have had problems albeit minor with short-term lets. Now they rent only to friends.


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## Happyexpat (Apr 4, 2011)

We wouldn't be renting the apartment out if we could avoid it but the mother in law, for health reasons, now has to live with us and the property market being so terrible renting is our only option. When things pick up in the next 200 years we will probably have other choices LOL.

It's not just trouble for absentee landlords it's trouble if you live on top of it. We gave up trying to do it ourselves and gave it to an English agent who was even more trouble. Seems to be much better now we have it with a Spanish one!


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Happyexpat said:


> We wouldn't be renting the apartment out if we could avoid it but the mother in law, for health reasons, now has to live with us and the property market being so terrible renting is our only option. When things pick up in the next 200 years we will probably have other choices LOL.
> 
> It's not just trouble for absentee landlords it's trouble if you live on top of it. We gave up trying to do it ourselves and gave it to an English agent who was even more trouble. Seems to be much better now we have it with a Spanish one!


I do the changing of linen and the washing thereof for my dil as when she used the agency she never got her own stuff back.
So during the summer I am the Washerwoman of Andalucia...


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