# Salary based on your nationality



## Machida

Hi, 

is it true that in UAE u get paid according to your nationality? if so, plz break it down!

Thanks.


----------



## zin

More qualifications, experience (years, locations worked) and inter-personal skills I suspect.


----------



## Gavtek

For an admin job, I would estimate:

Emirati - 25-30k
White Western - 15-20k
Brown Western - 10-15k
Arab/Eastern European - 7-12k
Light Indian/Chinese etc. - 5-8k
Dark Indian/Pakistan etc. - 2-5k
Filipino - 2-4k

It's not right, but it's what happens. Obviously there are exceptions to that.


----------



## Jynxgirl

It is not as easy as just to be broken down. The company pays according to what they can get people to work for. If there are 500 workers trying to get one job and even though the job should pay 10,000, a few of those people (who tend to be from certain countries) are willing to do the job for 6000... They will pay them 6000. And better yet, if they can pay them even less. And unfortunately, there is an endless supply of people who are willing to take even less and then once they get here, realize they are living like slave labor even though they have a degree!!!


----------



## Canuck_Sens

some people might not agree with me but I will expose my thoughts anyway.

It depends where you are coming from and how much you were making before, roughly speaking

All my colleagues that were hired had their salaries based on their last gross income. We talked about it at work once we got to know each other.

For occupations where you have big supply available do not expect to get a good pay. You won't

Also, if you are coming from a place where wages are not as high compared to other countries; they know you will accept the offer because they know all expats think about "how much that amount is good for in their own country"

I am thinking in Canadian Dollars and not very happy about it.

I am going to give you an example that happens even within the United States

People living in NY with the same occupation/ experience make more compared to someone living in Florida with the same occupation/experience, BUT new yorkers have a huge income tax (state+federal) and cost of life is ridiculous compared to Florida (state only). Friends in florida got more cash at the end after taxes, how's that ? 

If the guy from Florida were to apply for a job in Dubai he would be probably making less than the guy from NY working in Dubai because here they think about your gross income that you had before.


Does colour of skin play a role? Yup it does (should not be), but at the end it is your choice to take it or leave it. There are exceptions


----------



## pamela0810

Gavtek said:


> For an admin job, I would estimate:
> 
> Emirati - 25-30k
> White Western - 15-20k
> Brown Western - 10-15k
> Arab/Eastern European - 7-12k
> Light Indian/Chinese etc. - 5-8k
> Dark Indian/Pakistan etc. - 2-5k
> Filipino - 2-4k
> 
> It's not right, but it's what happens. Obviously there are exceptions to that.


Oh Blimey! It appears that I'm a Light Indian!!


----------



## Jynxgirl

pamela0810 said:


> Oh Blimey! It appears that I'm a Light Indian!!


And I am a white westerner... hehehehehe.


----------



## pandabearest

I think for specialist skills /qualifications in any white collar field here if you are good, and needed, then you can expect that is paid in western countries adding 30-50%.


----------



## Jynxgirl

Really the problem is the over supply of workers. Is an employers market. But isnt that how it is all over the world right now?? Unless you are in a much sought after field....


----------



## pandabearest

Jynxgirl said:


> Really the problem is the over supply of workers. Is an employers market. But isnt that how it is all over the world right now?? Unless you are in a much sought after field....


Agree on that too. I think the word needed is important. I believe there is a shortage of talent at the moment and an oversupply of workers.


----------



## sheikhaa

hmmm I got the passport and experience covered, just need to work on the skin color now. Any recommendations on bleaching your skin?


----------



## pamela0810

Uh oh! Are you a dark skinned Canadian Indian?


----------



## saima1215

When I first came here I didn't think all that matters but I guess I somehow fall into the brown western category as well. Doesn't matter where you're born and raised - in this country we'll all be divided into categories. Sad but true.


----------



## Earthangel13

it sounds like nationality is the basis of the salary but i would say no..let's keep it this way:if u have an offer a salary of equal or less than what u r getting in ur country, would u get it? Of course not...that is the first factor they are looking for regarding salary then comes the qualifications...


----------



## ossie

nothing to do with skin colour, here or anywhere. it's supply and demand. 

not worth coming here if there's an over supply. 

In demand, then here is a completely different story....just about name your own price....:cheer2:


----------



## pandabearest

ossie said:


> nothing to do with skin colour, here or anywhere. it's supply and demand.
> 
> not worth coming here if there's an over supply.
> 
> In demand, then here is a completely different story....just about name your own price....:cheer2:


Agreed.


----------



## pamela0810

Do you all actually believe that skin colour has nothing to do how much you are paid? Gavtek is pretty much spot on with the breakdown of salaries.

It doesn't matter how qualified or unqualified you are. I've had to see it and experience it first hand. It's the bitter truth. You could hold a Masters degree but if you're a dark skinned Indian, you will not get the same salary as a White westerner with a similar degree would.

We once had an Indian biologist working for us at a salary of AED 2,500 a month because she was Indian and couldn't communicate very well. When she left and a Lebanese replaced her, the new lady's base salary was AED10,000 a month.


----------



## cami

ossie said:


> nothing to do with skin colour, here or anywhere. it's supply and demand.
> 
> not worth coming here if there's an over supply.
> 
> In demand, then here is a completely different story....just about name your own price....:cheer2:


you must be kidding. in dubai it has everything to do with skin colour, what you look like, and who you know.

unless, of course, you're a local, in which case the laws of the universe apply differently.


----------



## indoMLA

sheikhaa said:


> hmmm I got the passport and experience covered, just need to work on the skin color now. Any recommendations on bleaching your skin?


I hope you are joking with the 'bleaching skin' remark. I don't know why everyone is preoccupied with 'light or white is right or beautiful' remarks. If you are dark skinned, sport it proudly. Dark skin people try to lighten the skin and yet white people try to darken their skin... I am so confused.



pamela0810 said:


> Uh oh! Are you a dark skinned Canadian Indian?


 Why does it matter? Is your aim to identify all Indians that are not from India? 
So sheikhaa can't be African, Latin, etc.?



ossie said:


> nothing to do with skin colour, here or anywhere. it's supply and demand.
> 
> not worth coming here if there's an over supply.
> 
> In demand, then here is a completely different story....just about name your own price....:cheer2:





pandabearest said:


> Agreed.


Say the White/Caucasian folks that are treated like their sh!t don't stink. :spit:


----------



## pamela0810

indoMLA said:


> Why does it matter? Is your aim to identify all Indians that are not from India?
> So sheikhaa can't be African, Latin, etc.?


IndoMLA lighten up (no pun intended!). The other forum members got the joke, I can't help it if you don't but you're starting to come across as a mod wannabe and you do not want to be labelled as that.


----------



## Shinjuku

2 cents...
UAE's workforce is comprised mainly of expatriates from all across the world, whereby different nationalities bring with them diversity of education standards and quality of work experience.

The number of different nationalities is much more in-your-face than most people are used in their home country.

Thus nationality becomes a convenient/lazy excuse for explaining many of the differences you see in UAE workplace & society.



pamela0810 said:


> It doesn't matter how qualified or unqualified you are. I've had to see it and experience it first hand. It's the bitter truth. You could hold a Masters degree but if you're a dark skinned Indian, you will not get the same salary as a White westerner with a similar degree would.


But what is a smilar degree?

If you consider quality and standards of universities across the world, a degree from the average Indian University is probably not the same as a degree from the average European university.

Do you relly believe that a dark-skinned Indian with a Masters from Harvard cannot command a higher salary than a white Briton with a Masters from Chav School of Bling.


----------



## MaidenScotland

Have to say I have never known anywhere as skin colour prejudice as the middle east.


----------



## pandabearest

Shinjuku said:


> Do you relly believe that a dark-skinned Indian with a Masters from Harvard cannot command a higher salary than a white Briton with a Masters from Chav School of Bling.



Exactly my thoughts......

What is wrong with some of the people on here.


----------



## indoMLA

pamela0810 said:


> IndoMLA lighten up (no pun intended!). The other forum members got the joke, I can't help it if you don't but you're starting to come across as a mod wannabe and you do not want to be labelled as that.


Nooooooooo..... I definitely don't want to be a mod... 
Also, I don't get the possible pun (although you said none intended)



Shinjuku said:


> 2 cents...
> UAE's workforce is comprised mainly of expatriates from all across the world, whereby different nationalities bring with them diversity of education standards and quality of work experience.
> 
> The number of different nationalities is much more in-your-face than most people are used in their home country.
> 
> Thus nationality becomes a convenient/lazy excuse for explaining many of the differences you see in UAE workplace & society.
> 
> 
> 
> But what is a smilar degree?
> 
> If you consider quality and standards of universities across the world, a degree from the average Indian University is probably not the same as a degree from the average European university.
> 
> Do you relly believe that a dark-skinned Indian with a Masters from Harvard cannot command a higher salary than a white Briton with a Masters from Chav School of Bling.


1. I agree with what you said about race being the lazy excuse for explaining differences..
2. I think only those that know about universities and education will do that research and make an informed decision, thus giving an Harvard educated Indian the nod; however, many places here don't see it that way and merely look at skin color or passport to determine someone's qualifications.


----------



## pandabearest

indoMLA said:


> however, many places here don't see it that way and merely look at skin color or passport to determine someone's qualifications.


Many unorthodox places don't, reputable employers based out of western countries do. You can't taint the whole tin with the same brush.


----------



## pamela0810

pandabearest said:


> Many unorthodox places don't, reputable employers based out of western countries do. You can't taint the whole tin with the same brush.


This coming from a person who posted this just a few days ago. - http://www.expatforum.com/expats/du...60-name-shame-call-outs-etc-3.html#post496825
How ironic!

@IndoMLA: You posted about embracing dark color, etc and I said "lighten up". Do you get it now?


----------



## pandabearest

pamela0810 said:


> This coming from a person who posted this just a few days ago. - http://www.expatforum.com/expats/dubai-expat-forum-expats-living-dubai/75560-name-shame-call-outs-etc-3.html#post496825
> How ironic!
> 
> @IndoMLA: You posted about embracing dark color, etc and I said "lighten up". Do you get it now?


Um ok passive aggressive much? I stand by that statement? Some people appear to reside with me as I got pm's to the same sentiment on that.


----------



## Mr Rossi

Shinjuku said:


> Do you relly believe that a dark-skinned Indian with a Masters from Harvard cannot command a higher salary than a white Briton with a Masters from Chav School of Bling.


I'm sure a dark-skinned Indian from Harvard could command a high salary anywhere in the world but that is very much a slight exception rather than norm here.


----------



## pandabearest

pamela0810 said:


> @IndoMLA: You posted about embracing dark color, etc and I said "lighten up". Do you get it now?


FYI if we are being frank in case you didn't get a positive response on this, very politically incorrect to make a joke about skin color to someone whis obviously of color?! Get it?


----------



## expatkid

Sorry!!.. But i am lost..!!!!:confused2::confused2:


----------



## rsinner

pandabearest said:


> Um ok passive aggressive much? I stand by that statement? Some people appear to reside with me as I got pm's to the same sentiment on that.


So other people being racist makes it okay for you to be racist as well. great

Nothing to add to this thread - there is a difference in pay due to your nationality whether you accept it or just choose to ignore the reality. But I do agree that with bigger companies (I work in finance so can say this about banks) this is less of a factor.


----------



## pamela0810

pandabearest said:


> FYI if we are being frank in case you didn't get a positive response on this, very politically incorrect to make a joke about skin color to someone whis obviously of color?! Get it?


Incidentally, Indo and I are actually the same colour but who cares. 

It's odd that you'd point out my post as politically incorrect when you are actually standing by a very racist comment that you posted. Whether or not you got PMs about it is none of my business, what matters to me is the reaction in garnered from other forum members on that very thread.


----------



## expatkid

Do all u wonderful people mean that...

" i need to bleach my skin, get a Harvard degree and a US/UK passport within an year to have a better pay pocket..??" .

Alas i thought its just talent and hard work that pushes u up the ladder. I was foreseeing a better pay pocket and a better life after a couple of years of experience.


----------



## dizzyizzy

Dear all,

This is a very interesting and important topic, but can we ask you to please let the discussion remain a constructive one. 

Unfortunately the colour/pay/passport co-relation is a real one, no point on denying that, whoever says the contrary either has not been here long enough, has not seen the situation first hand, or is oblivious to it because it does not personally affect them.


----------



## expatkid

Shinjuku said:


> But what is a smilar degree?
> 
> If you consider quality and standards of universities across the world, a degree from the average Indian University is probably not the same as a degree from the average European university.
> 
> Do you relly believe that a dark-skinned Indian with a Masters from Harvard cannot command a higher salary than a white Briton with a Masters from Chav School of Bling.


Hmm. I oppose that statement. You would find a lot of GCC nationals back in my City ( Bangalore,India ) enrolled into a lot of professional courses. Out here a GCC national gets paid More than double of that compared to an Indian who shared the same University/College and has scored way better grades.


----------



## pamela0810

expatkid said:


> Hmm. I oppose that statement. You would find a lot of GCC nationals back in my City ( Bangalore,India ) enrolled into a lot of professional courses. Out here a GCC national gets paid More than double of that compared to an Indian who shared the same University/College and has scored way better grades.


I agree with Izzy and Expatkid's posts above. 

People do not realise that India has the largest number of universities in a single country with the United States coming in second. I have always maintained that Indians are a very intelligent race and am extremely proud of it. Our only challenge is communication skills. Unfortunately, our Indian accent works against us especially in a place like Dubai.


----------



## saima1215

pamela0810 said:


> I agree with Izzy and Expatkid's posts above.
> 
> People do not realise that India has the largest number of universities in a single country with the United States coming in second. I have always maintained that Indians are a very intelligent race and am extremely proud of it. Our only challenge is communication skills. Unfortunately, our Indian accent works against us especially in a place like Dubai.


Pam, I completely agree with you. I've been brought up in the states and I've had lots of Indian friends who came to my university with full scholarships because they're so smart and have had been educated in some great school in India. I've also worked for Goldman Sachs and there was a huge number of Indians working for the company. 

The accent plays a big role especially here cause people are so ignorant and don't see beyond that. It's sad but true.


----------



## usatouae11

expatkid said:


> Do all u wonderful people mean that...
> 
> " i need to bleach my skin, get a Harvard degree and a US/UK passport within an year to have a better pay pocket..??" .
> 
> Alas i thought its just talent and hard work that pushes u up the ladder. I was foreseeing a better pay pocket and a better life after a couple of years of experience.


move to US, you will see that talent do pay off here.


----------



## expatkid

usatouae11 said:


> move to US, you will see that talent do pay off here.


Thank you for the suggestion.. I hope it was that easy to move to USA. I would have never opted Dubai.


----------



## Shinjuku

expatkid said:


> Hmm. I oppose that statement. You would find a lot of GCC nationals back in my City ( Bangalore,India ) enrolled into a lot of professional courses. Out here a GCC national gets paid More than double of that compared to an Indian who shared the same University/College and has scored way better grades.


Which statement do you oppose?

I'd be interested to know...can you suggest why you think a GCC national is paid more than an Indian, even if they have the same degree?
After all it makes no financial sense for any company to willingly pay double for the same resource, if the only difference being the colour of the passport.

I maintain that nationality is only incidental to the root cause of why people find there can be different levels of pay for the same job.
While this is probably most visible through evidence of different pay for different nationals, however nationality by itself is not the determining factor.


----------



## md000

I have one question:

What is the difference between these three people:

1) Male. Jordanian. MCSE certified. 5 years experience in IT. Bachelor degree in IT.
2) Male. Indian. MCSE certified. 5 years experience in IT. Bachelor degree in IT.
3) Male. Emirati. MCSE certified. 5 years experience in IT. Bachelor degree in IT.

Assume all are raised in their own countries, speak their local languages and English, and now live in the UAE.

Answer:

The Emirati has the same cultural background as decision makers, speaks the local language in the local dialect, and at the end of the day, has an interest in seeing his nation progress. In addition, the supply is limited for individuals in a similar position as he is.

The Jordanian has a similar cultural background to the Emirati (not the same, but closely aligned), speaks the local language but not in the same dialect, and may perceive Dubai as part of his regional scope and may have an interest in seeing its success as a benefit to his home country. In addition, there is some supply of individuals like him, but not overwhelming. 

The Indian has very little cultural background in relation with the Emirati, does not speak the local language, and is perceived to be only being here to send his money back to India. In addition, the supply is enormous.

It has very little to do with specific non-language skills. When you look at SUPPLY vs. DEMAND. There is limited supply of a certain type of people who can relate to the culture, speak the same language as local decision makers, and have a vested interest in seeing their community move forward. There is a TREMENDOUS supply of a certain type of people who don't understand the culture, don't speak the same language as the local decision makers, and who do NOT have a vested interest in seeing the local community move forward. It is a basic economics exercise.

If you argue about not having a vested interest in the local community move forward - ask yourself - how much money did you remit (send home) last month? What percentage of total income was this?

Another issue to argue: Do Indian university degrees mean much in the market? The tremendous number of students waters down the value of a degree. Think economics, not quality. Large supply = lower cost; Limited supply = higher cost. 

-md000/mike


----------



## pamela0810

md000 said:


> I have one question:
> 
> What is the difference between these three people:
> 
> 1) Male. Jordanian. MCSE certified. 5 years experience in IT. Bachelor degree in IT.
> 2) Male. Indian. MCSE certified. 5 years experience in IT. Bachelor degree in IT.
> 3) Male. Emirati. MCSE certified. 5 years experience in IT. Bachelor degree in IT.
> 
> Assume all are raised in their own countries, speak their local languages and English, and now live in the UAE.
> 
> Answer:
> 
> The Emirati has the same cultural background as decision makers, speaks the local language in the local dialect, and at the end of the day, has an interest in seeing his nation progress. In addition, the supply is limited for individuals in a similar position as he is.
> 
> The Jordanian has a similar cultural background to the Emirati (not the same, but closely aligned), speaks the local language but not in the same dialect, and may perceive Dubai as part of his regional scope and may have an interest in seeing its success as a benefit to his home country. In addition, there is some supply of individuals like him, but not overwhelming.
> 
> The Indian has very little cultural background in relation with the Emirati, does not speak the local language, and is perceived to be only being here to send his money back to India. In addition, the supply is enormous.
> 
> It has very little to do with specific non-language skills. When you look at SUPPLY vs. DEMAND. There is limited supply of a certain type of people who can relate to the culture, speak the same language as local decision makers, and have a vested interest in seeing their community move forward. There is a TREMENDOUS supply of a certain type of people who don't understand the culture, don't speak the same language as the local decision makers, and who do NOT have a vested interest in seeing the local community move forward. It is a basic economics exercise.
> 
> If you argue about not having a vested interest in the local community move forward - ask yourself - how much money did you remit (send home) last month? What percentage of total income was this?
> 
> Another issue to argue: Do Indian university degrees mean much in the market? The tremendous number of students waters down the value of a degree. Think economics, not quality. Large supply = lower cost; Limited supply = higher cost.
> 
> -md000/mike


You have a point but what community interest do the white westerners have then for them to command and get such high salaries?
The fact that companies can openly advertise that they are looking for specific nationalities (more often than not they want UK/US/Aus/SA) speaks volumes that race and colour play an extremely important role in the hiring and wage process. I'm not sure about the UK but the US companies definitely can't discriminate this way or they'll be spending all their money defending lawsuits.


----------



## Tropicana

I will look at it from the perspective of the candidate

When I was looking for a job after graduating from a stellar American Public college, here are some of the "offers" I got

1) 3k salary, because I am Asian
2) 3.5k salary; they are willing to pay someone who graduated from a top place, and speak Arabic in the local dialect and English as good as any native speaker the same salary as someone who cant speak Arabic, graduated from some small Indian RRC and speaks with an accent. The main thing to them is "passport", everything else was secondary
3) A small firm with a very "different" way of doing things. I didnt get the offer, but if I would have, I would get the same salary as anyone else they hired for their trainee position
4) The firm where i joined; they paid me more than twice what others were offering me, and didnt distinguish that much based on race

Firms 1 and 2 were no name firms and still are
Firm 3 is quite low key but is known as a place where one can literally earn ten times what they start with as they are quite unique in their field of business
Firm 4 is a large player with investments in more than a dozen countries

I would guess that really good companies dont discriminate that much as they want the smart guy, no matter where he is from. While many not so good places have an inferiority complex which they try to overcome by paying peanuts to some people (ensuring only the mediocre get hired)


----------



## md000

pamela0810 said:


> You have a point but what community interest do the white westerners have then for them to command and get such high salaries?
> The fact that companies can openly advertise that they are looking for specific nationalities (more often than not they want UK/US/Aus/SA) speaks volumes that race and colour play an extremely important role in the hiring and wage process. I'm not sure about the UK but the US companies definitely can't discriminate this way or they'll be spending all their money defending lawsuits.



As a "white westerner", I don't command anything. I take market rate (actually, I take below market rate because I work for an american non-profit) for my specific skill set (multiple Master degrees, 4 total degrees, 15 years experience). Just like I would in America. 

Now, if I had the same qualifications as the individuals mentioned in my hypothetical situation: I wouldn't have a chance of getting hired here. Why? I would fall into nearly the same category as the Indian gentleman. I have friends with those qualifications who have tried - and they don't succeed. Most of my American friends here are not entry level and have extremely desirable skillsets - if they didn't, they would go home (just as I've seen numerous Americans leave quickly because they have unrealistic expectations of this market).

As with anywhere in the world, if you have a desirable skillset - you can dictate (more so) your salary range and that is somewhat based upon your home salary range. 

I like what the poster prior to this said: quality and successful companies hire smart people - no matter the nationality. 

-md000/mike


----------



## ossie

md000 said:


> I like what the poster prior to this said: quality and successful companies hire smart people - no matter the nationality.
> 
> -md000/mike


Exactly...:thumb:

and, 'smart' being the operative word.........

Caught on yet Cami ??


----------



## pandabearest

md000 said:


> SUPPLY vs. DEMAND.
> 
> -md000/mike


Word.


----------



## Mr Rossi

Think someone should lock this thread - a few posters are settting themselves up for getting busted for the drugs they are obviously on.


----------



## pandabearest

Wage disparity between race / skin color is not a new idea. It has been going on for centuries. Some countries are current when it comes to equal employment and laws of same. Some are not. I agree in supply vs demand argument. I also believe unscrupulous employers and managers in positions to employ take advantage of the poor state of UAE and ME in regards to equality of nationalities, human rights and pay.


----------



## INFAMOUS

pandabearest said:


> Wage disparity between race / skin color is not a new idea. It has been going on for centuries. Some countries are current when it comes to equal employment and laws of same. Some are not. I agree in supply vs demand argument. I also believe unscrupulous employers and managers in positions to employ take advantage of the poor state of UAE and ME in regards to equality of nationalities, human rights and pay.


agreed.


----------



## expatkid

BTW where is the OP .?? I don see him around..!!!


----------



## expatkid

This thread`s on fire. It`s shows the opinions about discrimination that is followed in the ME market. I think the mod should tag this somewhere around in the "Sticky's". It surely will help the job seekers tackle the market.


----------



## indoMLA

md000 said:


> Another issue to argue: Do Indian university degrees mean much in the market? The tremendous number of students waters down the value of a degree. Think economics, not quality. Large supply = lower cost; Limited supply = higher cost.
> 
> -md000/mike


Don't know about the majority of other Indian Universities, but you ever hear of IIT? Silicone Valley companies were literally fumbling and tripping over themselves do get guys from IIT (India) to come join them. It was not unheard of for companies like Microsoft to charter private planes to bring these guys to the US. I know people that had companies waiting for them in California with BMWs and houses fully furnished. So to answer your question, does an Indian university degrees mean much, from IIT, they sure as hell do... even now. 

In the US tech sector, if you have a degree from IIT, you are still a very sought out employee. Just to give you the degree of how smart some of these cats coming out of this school are, many of them have MIT, Caltech, etc. as their fall-back schools in case they don't get selected to their primary. 

To answer another contention you posed about the water down value of the degree.... The vast majority of the Asian doctors we have in the US are of Indian decent and not all of them were educated in the US, so I think the Indian universities are doing something right if their students can go to another country and pass that countries exams and testing to achieve the position of doctor, etc.

But the OP asked if skin color mattered here in the UAE, as much as I did not want to believe the amount of racism here (see my earlier posts), I have witnessed it and have been treated differently because of it. It only until I start to speak (with no accent) or if I flash that blue passport with the gold eagle on the front of it, do they treat me differently (or how they should treat someone in the first place).


----------



## cami

ossie said:


> Exactly...:thumb:
> 
> and, 'smart' being the operative word.........
> 
> Caught on yet Cami ??


i suggest you rephrase your wording before posting your comments here. i may or may not have "caught it yet," but "smart" is surely not an adjective i would use to describe you as well.


----------



## pamela0810

cami said:


> i suggest you rephrase your wording before posting your comments here. i may or may not have "caught it yet," but "smart" is surely not an adjective i would use to describe you as well.


:rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:


----------



## remaaz

Very interesting topic,

I believe my case is not applicable here but I will do my best.

Initially Cami thank you for your comment. md000 I believe we think the same in this particular issue.

-Locals, expats (western, Asian)
-Qualification
-Demand
-Field of career
-Law & regulations

These factors are effecting anyone's salary whomever he is?

I don't deny that there are differences in offers between nationalities & Colours. But segregation is available between locals also, "He is from that tribe, His uncle is .., My friend called me about him, ...etc".

*Laws enforces most of government companies and semi-government companies to pay locals more than others. .. .. .. ( I believe that's our right from the oil production )

* Let's say I'm a company owner and I have a free occupation available, there are 2 candidates having the similar qualifications & experience. First guy asked for 10K after passing the interview and the second guy accepted my offer which was 7500.
It's obvious which one I will choose.

*Your chance from this life is a part of your destiny, so don't complain why others are getting better salaries though they are having the job title, Work hard and believe in God.

I wanted to say some people ( so many not some) will agree having a temporary job to run their life and you find them sticking to it years. Honestly, most of Asians would accept any amount, just to continue his income instead of doing nothing.

This is life, people make benefits from people problems

Yess, It's correct Indian accent is very clear and most of Indians love this word "Actually". Also, most of people from Kerala put alot of ING. (I'm not making fun of Indians, It's a fact)

Sorry for taking your time and good luck with reading all nonsenses I've wrote.
( We just say and we don't apply, We are Arab .... hahahahahaha )


----------



## Tropicana

indoMLA said:


> Don't know about the majority of other Indian Universities, but you ever hear of IIT? Silicone Valley companies were literally fumbling and tripping over themselves do get guys from IIT (India) to come join them. It was not unheard of for companies like Microsoft to charter private planes to bring these guys to the US. I know people that had companies waiting for them in California with BMWs and houses fully furnished. So to answer your question, does an Indian university degrees mean much, from IIT, they sure as hell do... even now.
> 
> In the US tech sector, if you have a degree from IIT, you are still a very sought out employee. Just to give you the degree of how smart some of these cats coming out of this school are, many of them have MIT, Caltech, etc. as their fall-back schools in case they don't get selected to their primary.




You knwo the funny thing?

IIT/IIM graduates rarely come to the Middle East these days; at least the smart ones dont

When you have a recruiter who believes that IIT is same as some regional college in Uttar Pradesh, he goes on to offer both the same low salary (He from India, He from India, both same same )

Employers think they are winning by continuing to hire people at unbelievably low salaries. What they dont realize is they are mostly hiring the absolute rejects from India (accountant at 4000 dhs anyone?)

The smart Indians are either abroad or working for 100k Rupees a month at home.


----------



## pandabearest

A lot of successful Indians in banking are in hong kong and Singapore. They rule the place over Chinese in non Chinese speaking positions, heck they rule over westerners. Believe it or not. It's called the Indian mafia. I am referring to top front office roles. They also employ their own. So there's a complete juxtaposed argument to Dubai.


----------



## gunner

Tropicana said:


> You knwo the funny thing?
> 
> IIT/IIM graduates rarely come to the Middle East these days; at least the smart ones dont
> 
> When you have a recruiter who believes that IIT is same as some regional college in Uttar Pradesh, he goes on to offer both the same low salary (He from India, He from India, both same same )
> 
> Employers think they are winning by continuing to hire people at unbelievably low salaries. What they dont realize is they are mostly hiring the absolute rejects from India (accountant at 4000 dhs anyone?)
> 
> The smart Indians are either abroad or working for 100k Rupees a month at home.


Ohh dear...you just broke my heart into pieces. 
I am a graduate from IIT Bombay and have just joined a firm in Dubai.
Does it mean I am not smart ?


----------



## Gavtek

Yes it does!


----------



## gunner

Gavtek said:


> Yes it does!


Am sure you think you are very smart after that reply. Could have gone easy on the new guy


----------



## pandabearest

jeanie said:


> Ohh dear...you just broke my heart into pieces.
> I am a graduate from IIT Bombay and have just joined a firm in Dubai.
> Does it mean I am not smart ?


Go to Hong Kong why would you move here?


----------



## rsinner

jeanie said:


> Ohh dear...you just broke my heart into pieces.
> I am a graduate from IIT Bombay and have just joined a firm in Dubai.
> Does it mean I am not smart ?



Haha.... exactly the same thoughts came to my mind

@Tropicana - the inflation is so high in India thse days that 100K rupees a month doesn't count for much


----------



## gunner

pandabearest said:


> Go to Hong Kong why would you move here?


Point noted. Well lets just say the next stop would be Hong Kong


----------



## pandabearest

jeanie said:


> Point noted. Well lets just say the next stop would be Hong Kong


----------



## gunner

rsinner said:


> Haha.... exactly the same thoughts came to my mind
> 
> @Tropicana - the inflation is so high in India thse days that 100K rupees a month doesn't count for much



That and also talent is available in so much abundance in India (demand-supply) that people are bound to move to other countries for better opportunities.


----------



## Tropicana

jeanie said:


> Ohh dear...you just broke my heart into pieces.
> I am a graduate from IIT Bombay and have just joined a firm in Dubai.
> Does it mean I am not smart ?


If you did a breakdown of your fewllow graduates, I am pretty sure that most did not come to the Middle East. I doubt if many IIT'ians who are in top 10% come to Middle East at all; they would probably go for graduate school somewhere


----------



## gunner

Tropicana said:


> If you did a breakdown of your fewllow graduates, I am pretty sure that most did not come to the Middle East. I doubt if many IIT'ians who are in top 10% come to Middle East at all; they would probably go for graduate school somewhere


yeah you are probably right that one wont find a lot of IIT grads here. But then again its nothing to do with their smartness, its just that moving to middle east is pretty low on the pecking order(it not being an open society) and its nothing to do with the 10% as you mentioned.


----------



## VADXB

Interesting post. My personal experience in Dubai has been quite terrible until I start speaking (I'm south asian background). Lets face it, race plays a huge role here and people are judged based on where they come from. I have been refused entry at some of the night clubs, cabbie doesnt pick me up thinking I wont tip him..I can go on (as much as it winds me up but I have realised that this is Dubai and I better accept it to make my life less miserable or better pack my bags!) 

I have also witnessed many cases where folks from a average uni back in the UK and with mediocre experience ends up getting 25K plus salary with all benefits. With due respect, I do feel that they are over paid and for the same role, an asian or eastern european would probably be paid only half of their salary. However this opens up an interesting point as why would companies hire such "expensive" work force paying them more when they could have found a "less expensive" option. 

I guess the answer is not supply demand but rather due to the perception amongst the employers here. When job adverts openly discriminate by stating only western nationals apply/only indians/filipino now surely that cant be due to supply demand but merely due to perception.


----------



## expatkid

I Was Hired as a project engineer, But now i am Multitasking-I do quantity survey,Coordination,Sometimes design and then if i do have some time,few site visits. There is a noticeable case of discrimination in my own firm. 

I have Graduated from one of the well recognized colleges of India. A colleague of mine who is a GCC national and also employed as a Project engineer at the same time gets paid 12000 AED for doing nothing, whereas although i handle his projects and rectify all his mistakes , i get paid way lower , we both have studied the same modules, i have a higher GPA and a better command over the English language.

I think all this atmosphere of Indians being cheap labor has been created by "Keralites" (people from a state called Kerala in India). These people work for peanuts, Every kid in the household is raised with a dream , that he has to work in the ME. My Operations manager( Incidentally a Keralite ) who has 8 Years of Experience in the UAE, works for a mere 4500 AED a month. These people just manage with Less than 500 AED a month ( all inclusive ). The cost of living back in thier home state is also very cheap, they would lead a luxurious life in less than 200 Dollars a month. So when they come down here and do teh conversion, they find even 2000 AED ( Thats a pay, a keralite engineer with good skill sets would happily accept) a very good pay. This has been damaging the pay pockets of every Indian coming down to India. According to a lot of people in the ME, India = kerala.

I have also noticed that normally firms owned by an Indian are the ones which have maximum discrimination.


----------



## rsinner

expatkid said:


> I think all this atmosphere of Indians being cheap labor has been created by "Keralites" (people from a state called Kerala in India).


Dude, enough with the Kerala bashing (no I am not from Kerala or South India for that matter). I understand you have had bad experiences with your flat mates, but please do not generalise an entire state. Also, what you have just spoken about (low cost of living at home etc) is applicable to the whole of India (except probably the metros) so please do not generalise.


----------



## Tropicana

expatkid said:


> I think all this atmosphere of Indians being cheap labor has been created by "Keralites" (people from a state called Kerala in India). These people work for peanuts, Every kid in the household is raised with a dream , that he has to work in the ME. My Operations manager( Incidentally a Keralite ) who has 8 Years of Experience in the UAE, works for a mere 4500 AED a month. These people just manage with Less than 500 AED a month ( all inclusive ).



Well even without talking about some races, many people here are extremely cheap. 
They will rely on missed calls, refuse to eat out, wont go to movies , wear cheap awkward clothes, all to save a few dirhams.

An Operations Manager working for 4500 Dhs ??


----------



## pamela0810

And I thought I was overworked and underpaid!!


----------



## gunner

rsinner said:


> Dude, enough with the Kerala bashing (no I am not from Kerala or South India for that matter). I understand you have had bad experiences with your flat mates, but please do not generalise an entire state. Also, what you have just spoken about (low cost of living at home etc) is applicable to the whole of India (except probably the metros) so please do not generalise.


Second that


----------



## pandabearest

VADXB said:


> I guess the answer is not supply demand but rather due to the perception amongst the employers here. When job adverts openly discriminate by stating only western nationals apply/only indians/filipino now surely that cant be due to supply demand but merely due to perception.



Disagree - in most cases the specialist skills, work experience or entrepreneurial culture that comes with the hire is WELL NEEDED in this country and region. 

Penny wise pound foolish some managers higher up in firms know what makes businesses work and what doesn't. Role specific of course.


----------



## Canuck_Sens

I think it is time to close this thread honestly


----------



## indoMLA

expatkid said:


> I Was Hired as a project engineer, But now i am Multitasking-I do quantity survey,Coordination,Sometimes design and then if i do have some time,few site visits. There is a noticeable case of discrimination in my own firm.
> 
> I have Graduated from one of the well recognized colleges of India. A colleague of mine who is a GCC national and also employed as a Project engineer at the same time gets paid 12000 AED for doing nothing, whereas although i handle his projects and rectify all his mistakes , i get paid way lower , we both have studied the same modules, i have a higher GPA and a better command over the English language.
> 
> I think all this atmosphere of Indians being cheap labor has been created by "Keralites" (people from a state called Kerala in India). These people work for peanuts, Every kid in the household is raised with a dream , that he has to work in the ME. My Operations manager( Incidentally a Keralite ) who has 8 Years of Experience in the UAE, works for a mere 4500 AED a month. These people just manage with Less than 500 AED a month ( all inclusive ). The cost of living back in thier home state is also very cheap, they would lead a luxurious life in less than 200 Dollars a month. So when they come down here and do teh conversion, they find even 2000 AED ( Thats a pay, a keralite engineer with good skill sets would happily accept) a very good pay. This has been damaging the pay pockets of every Indian coming down to India. According to a lot of people in the ME, India = kerala.
> 
> I have also noticed that normally firms owned by an Indian are the ones which have maximum discrimination.


Dude, what you said was one of the most ignorant statements I have heard on this forum. You are saying that people from Kerala are the reason that Indian salaries are so low? The laborers in the UAE are from all over and every state in India and Pakistan, so to attribute your low salary to the low wage workers from Kerala is just retarded. You must also think you are better than all those dark skinned, caterpillar mustache sporting, dhoti wearing laborers as well, right? 

In my company we have a lot of Managers, Controllers, and Directors from Kerala and these guys live better than most expats from the US, UK, etc. 

to Pamela: See this is the bullsh!t that I was talking about before. Indians have prejudices towards there fellow countrymen. This is the crap I hated about Indians back home and here it is in full view for all to see... Blaming your misfortune or inadequate salary on someone or a group of people. 



rsinner said:


> Dude, enough with the Kerala bashing (no I am not from Kerala or South India for that matter). I understand you have had bad experiences with your flat mates, but please do not generalise an entire state. Also, what you have just spoken about (low cost of living at home etc) is applicable to the whole of India (except probably the metros) so please do not generalise.


+1


Canuck_Sens said:


> I think it is time to close this thread honestly


I agree. Close this already.


----------



## rsinner

Canuck_Sens said:


> I think it is time to close this thread honestly


I second that.

Time to ban some members as well, as racism is supposed to be against the rules of the forum


----------



## pamela0810

@ Expatkid: I agree with IndoMLA, Rsinner and everyone else. We stand up against other countries picking on us when sometimes we ourselves have such a divide. I'm 25% Keralite by the way so it's really unfair for you to generalise this way.

@ IndoMLA: When I read that post, the first person that came to mind was you.

As for closing this thread, threads with far more controversial subjects have lasted longer and people have actually had fair arguments without personally attacking anyone. I do agree that some infractions need to be handed out for all the racist comments being passed here, I'm pretty sure they're being done already.


----------



## dizzyizzy

rsinner, this is a tricky one because the very nature of the thread is the correlation between race and pay so is quite hard to discuss it without talking about races. We've been monitoring it and I'm sorry if you've been offended by some posts here.

The thread will be closed now as is not going anywhere. We allowed it for the last day because is clearly an important and controversial topic, but the horse is well dead by now!


----------



## dizzyizzy

And just a couple of things to add:

1. Hope everyone is more sensible in the future when it comes to overgeneralising.

2. Remember that when infractions are handed out only the person who received it will know it (unless of course they come and complain on the forum, which is against the rules). It may not happen when YOU want it to happen, but then again, we mods also have jobs to look after and are not here all day long. I hope you all trust that we are mods for a reason and we are always trying to make sure the forum rules are enforced. It happens all the time, is just that we don't discuss it here (because is against the forum rules )


----------

