# Buying land in southern spain



## FrankBlack (Apr 14, 2010)

I'm at the first stages of trying to find out about land prices and regulations in southern spain. My hope is to find a piece of land with either mains or natural water supply, preferrably with mains electricity nearby (but not essential), that I can site a caravan on and/or build a wooden house on. As I know nothing yet about the best place to start looking or the pitfalls involved, your help and advice is appreciated. I'd also be grateful for any info on land or local taxes I can expect as I'm trying to build a picture of what my monthly outgoings might be.

Thanks.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

FrankBlack said:


> I'm at the first stages of trying to find out about land prices and regulations in southern spain. My hope is to find a piece of land with either mains or natural water supply, preferrably with mains electricity nearby (but not essential), that I can site a caravan on and/or build a wooden house on. As I know nothing yet about the best place to start looking or the pitfalls involved, your help and advice is appreciated. I'd also be grateful for any info on land or local taxes I can expect as I'm trying to build a picture of what my monthly outgoings might be.
> 
> Thanks.


Before you buy any land to build on in Spain you need to come over and learn about the minefield that you could be letting yourself in for! There are soooooo many rules and regulations about where you can and cant build. There have been many incidences where even the mayor has been bribed into letting people build - the mayor ends up in prison and the houses are demolished without a care and the owner foots the bill. You need to do one heck of a lot of research and be careful who and what info you trust!

Sorry, I dont mean to be so negative, but altho Spain is trying to clean up its act with regards to landgrab, building land its still got a way to go. Welcome to the forum tho 

Jo xxx


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## FrankBlack (Apr 14, 2010)

Thanks Jo. I appreciate the warning, I've heard similar horror stories and will be very careful. What steps should I be taking to ensure I don't end up in a mess?

In terms of land types, is it true that you can site a caravan on any type of land e.g. rustic, or agricultural land, without special permission? In the UK, obviously it's different. Here, if you leave your shopping trolley unattended for five minutes the planning officer will be on your back for something. I'm looking for land I can buy fairly cheaply, and if that means I could buy land that wasn't designated for building, and site a caravan on it without a problem then that would be a start.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

FrankBlack said:


> Thanks Jo. I appreciate the warning, I've heard similar horror stories and will be very careful. What steps should I be taking to ensure I don't end up in a mess?
> 
> In terms of land types, is it true that you can site a caravan on any type of land e.g. rustic, or agricultural land, without special permission? In the UK, obviously it's different. Here, if you leave your shopping trolley unattended for five minutes the planning officer will be on your back for something. I'm looking for land I can buy fairly cheaply, and if that means I could buy land that wasn't designated for building, and site a caravan on it without a problem then that would be a start.


I'm not sure - I think the rules are that you can have a caravan on land as long as its not on a concrete base. If you're planning to build ANYTHING, you dont buy rustic land. I've heard that you can build or put anything on land as long as you can dimantle/move it within 24 hours, but I think thats been changed now!!??? Its also different in every province, the rules change by the minute and TBH, its a mess which wasnt helped by corruption - iYou think the rules are bad in the uk???? At least there they are clear cut!

Jo xxxx


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

This isnt quite the same as finding building land, but it may give you an idea of the trials and tribulations of what you could be letting yourself in for:

http://www.expatforum.com/expats/sp...pain-golden-rules.html?highlight=golden+rules

Jo xxx


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## FrankBlack (Apr 14, 2010)

That's very helpful Jo. I just wish the author had expanded on the details he gave. For example the different types of land and what the terms mean. But good all the same. I'll bookmark it as a reference.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

http://www.expatforum.com/expats/sp...roperty-owners-day.html?highlight=rustic+land

http://www.expatforum.com/expats/sp...uying-land-spain.html?highlight=building+land

http://www.expatforum.com/expats/sp...er-rights.html?highlight=building+rustic+land

These may also help????????

Jo xxx


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## donz (May 5, 2010)

Hi there

I don't know the details really but please be aware that if you buy rustic land then you need a licence even to have a digger move your own earth about on your land - even if it's from one side to the other! Nevermind building licences etc etc

We have a finca out in the campo (i.e. on rustic land) and we cannot extend any habitual dwelling i.e I can't put an extension on my house or build a little house or anything like that - I can't even convert my storage building into a habitable dwelling despite no structural changes to it.

I know you can extend existing business type places if it's less than 10% of the overall building but you cannot if it is for persons residing.

Beware though - these rules seem to change on a daily/weekly/monthly basis (really!!) so tread carefully - took us a year to get everything checked out fully on the place we bought to make sure everything was truly legit and about what we would and wouldn't be able to do


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## FrankBlack (Apr 14, 2010)

donz said:


> Hi there
> 
> I don't know the details really but please be aware that if you buy rustic land then you need a licence even to have a digger move your own earth about on your land - even if it's from one side to the other! Nevermind building licences etc etc
> 
> ...


Thanks Donz. Wow, it's almost like moving to another planet. I'm hopeful that my scenario i.e. caravan on a bit of land, won't attract such caustic bureaucracy. But I guess that's what I'm trying to find out here.

What sort of taxes do you pay out monthly for owning land/ property? Is there an equivalent to the UK's exploitative council tax for example? Any ideas how much it costs to have mains electricity connected? How about water?


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## FrankBlack (Apr 14, 2010)

Interesting link here on the Spanish property scandal UK govt appoints property advisor for Spain


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## gus-lopez (Jan 4, 2010)

Some light reading here.

construction, spanish lawyers, spanish properties, murcia, costa blanca, alicante, torrevieja | Spanish Solicitors Spanish Lawyers

Spain Building Restoration Regulations Laws Spanish Property Development


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

I'd think very long and hard before committing to a purchase of 'rustica' even for the siting of a temporary structure. Because there have been so many instances of local councils breaching plans agreed by the Regional Planning Authority here, municipalities are now drawing up or have already drawn up PGOU (Development Plans) with the aim of legalising previously built structures without all the necessary agreements and in some cases demolishing them.
In future there could be much closer investigation and inspection of what goes on on rural land - a good thing as much beautiful countryside has been ruined by illicit constructions.
In spite of all the problems of these dubious builds and the associated corruption, Spain's planning laws are not dissimilar to those in force in the UK....scarcely surprising, though, as Spain is Europe's fourth largest economy and not the US 'Wild Frontier' of the pioneers!


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

FrankBlack said:


> Thanks Donz. Wow, it's almost like moving to another planet. I'm hopeful that my scenario i.e. caravan on a bit of land, won't attract such caustic bureaucracy. But I guess that's what I'm trying to find out here.
> 
> What sort of taxes do you pay out monthly for owning land/ property? Is there an equivalent to the UK's exploitative council tax for example? Any ideas how much it costs to have mains electricity connected? How about water?



No, the taxes arent as high as the UK, but what are you going to be paying taxes on? Getting electricity and water is something else altogether! I suspect you'll need all manner of permits, permissions..........???? If you're planning to set your caravan down on you land and need utilities, I think that you will have to treat your caravan as a "dwelling" in which case, you'll be subject to all the rules and regulations of building a house!!?

I used to live near a couple who bought a piece of land, were eventually given permission to build. While they were doing this, they towed a caravan on there to live in while the building was going on. However, they used british builders, who didnt respect the stream running across the bottom of their land and they covered the stream so they could get their gear to the building site! This angered the local council/Atunamiento - who promptly withdrew all permissions (in all honesty, they did make an awful mess of it and caused the flooding we had when we lived there - they were ordered to put it right, but vanished). Luckily, the owners did have the sense to get the utilities connect first. So they now live in their caravan - that happened 6 years ago and they are still fighting, worse still they have been told that the caravan has to go cos during the last 6 years, they've kinda elaborated it and its now more of a prefab looking thing (they put cladding on it and tried to make it more like a home?). I no longer live there so I dont know if or what the outcome is

Jo xxxx


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

FrankBlack said:


> Thanks Donz. Wow, it's almost like moving to another planet. I'm hopeful that my scenario i.e. caravan on a bit of land, won't attract such caustic bureaucracy. But I guess that's what I'm trying to find out here.
> 
> What sort of taxes do you pay out monthly for owning land/ property? Is there an equivalent to the UK's exploitative council tax for example? Any ideas how much it costs to have mains electricity connected? How about water?


There is an annual tax on property called IBI, which (like council tax) varies according to location and type of property. But it is almost always cheaper than the UK.

If your land is urbanised you get mains electricity, drainage and water provided. If it isn´t, you will need to pay whatever it costs.

Another useful article here:

Rural or urban land: the rules - Spain Costa Tropical Property - Properties for sale in Granada area


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## FrankBlack (Apr 14, 2010)

gus-lopez said:


> Some light reading here.
> 
> construction, spanish lawyers, spanish properties, murcia, costa blanca, alicante, torrevieja | Spanish Solicitors Spanish Lawyers
> 
> Spain Building Restoration Regulations Laws Spanish Property Development


Thanks Gus. That first link was very helpful. Just what I was after in terms of beginning to break down the different classifications of land (in both english and spanish).

Thanks for the other replies (there doesn't seem to be a button for quoting multiple posts). I appreciate the point on regulations being essential to prevent the countryside being ruined by ugly developments. In the UK this type of regulation has just gone mad in my opinion. But it sounds as if the enforcement and interpretation of various and variable spanish regulations makes the whole enterprise of building a rather dodgy one. So for the time being I'll stick with the caravan on land idea and see how much info I can dig up.

Thanks JoJo and Alcalaina (thanks also for the link). It's been helpful and I'm getting clearer at least on the types of questions I need to be asking in order to get what I'm looking for. 

On the matter of water supply, I wonder if anyone can comment on the availability of natural water supplies in the south. It being very dry there I'm wondering whether bore hole water is even possible, or even a well. In the absence of getting myself over there and asking around (my spanish is the 'two beers please' level), I'm doing all of my research online at present.

So, to clarify, I'm looking for info on:

1. types of land that caravans can be used on without a problem
2. any information on natural water supply in southern spanish regions e.g. boreholes, wells etc
3. information (actual figures) on taxes applied to land that have to be paid by land owners on a regular basis
4. experiences from anyone living more self-reliantly/ off-grid in southern spain


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## donz (May 5, 2010)

if you're living out in the campo then it will be 50/50 as to whether you can even get mains water. We are lucky to have mains water yet my neighbour who is 2min drive away does not have it and they will not install it so she pumps her water up from the river.

We visited other similar properties before buying this one that had wells so the 'natural' options are about


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

FrankBlack said:


> Interesting link here on the Spanish property scandal UK govt appoints property advisor for Spain


Thanks for the article Frank. There's no denying there have been numerous scams over the years and many peoples' plans have been well and truly shot though the sheer greed and selfishness of others. I'd just like to add though, that it's not merely newcomers to the scene that have been buxxered. A lot of Spaniards have been ruined by such practices unfortunately. 

It has to be remembered also, that a fair number of foreigners get done because they don't bother or can't be bothered to find out about local regulations. Even worse are those that think they don't have to follow local legislation for some reason, or those that just presume that everything is the same as the UK ...

But that won't happen to you 'cos you're finding stuff out before you get into it, aren't you??


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## FrankBlack (Apr 14, 2010)

Thanks Gus, that's good to know. I guess if it rains in Andalucia then there'll be a chance of natural water, or rainwater collection! But there's a rumour that it falls mainly on the plain over there...

Thanks PW. Yes mate, having learned a few things in life the hard way I'm trying to find out as much as I can before I start looking for a location/ land type. I've spent quite a bit of time over the years in Andalucia, albeit several years ago now, but the thought of just getting over there with minimal language skills and without creating some sort of short list would seem a bit counter-productive. So, yes, I'm hoping I'll gather basic info for starters.

here's a couple of links on off-grid living in spain for anyone who stumbles upon this thread:

How to start an off-grid farm (in Spain) | Living Off the Grid: Free Yourself

Living off-grid in Spain


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## goingoffthegrid (Jun 3, 2011)

FrankBlack said:


> Thanks Gus. That first link was very helpful. Just what I was after in terms of beginning to break down the different classifications of land (in both english and spanish).
> 
> Thanks for the other replies (there doesn't seem to be a button for quoting multiple posts). I appreciate the point on regulations being essential to prevent the countryside being ruined by ugly developments. In the UK this type of regulation has just gone mad in my opinion. But it sounds as if the enforcement and interpretation of various and variable spanish regulations makes the whole enterprise of building a rather dodgy one. So for the time being I'll stick with the caravan on land idea and see how much info I can dig up.
> 
> ...



1) For land over 20.000 m2 you can get a camping license. In most cases caravans are being condoned however it depends on the town hall how they handle it

2) Some parcelas have a free "agua de riu" connection. You can catch rainwater, and might be able to dig a well however if you have dry land this probably will become a dry well.


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## goingoffthegrid (Jun 3, 2011)

donz said:


> Hi there
> 
> I don't know the details really but please be aware that if you buy rustic land then you need a licence even to have a digger move your own earth about on your land - even if it's from one side to the other!


I assume that when I use a shovel I don't need a permit?


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## FrankBlack (Apr 14, 2010)

goingoffthegrid said:


> I assume that when I use a shovel I don't need a permit?


We're at that stage in the UK now!


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## goingoffthegrid (Jun 3, 2011)

FrankBlack said:


> We're at that stage in the UK now!


Can you explain? Are you planning to build a house at 2 locations?


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## FrankBlack (Apr 14, 2010)

goingoffthegrid said:


> Can you explain? Are you planning to build a house at 2 locations?


No, I simply meant that the UK has become so rule-bound that you need a licence to use the toilet now! It's State control gone mad, which is partly why I want to leave the UK. I'm hoping Spain or Portugal will still retain a little common sense in their system. And if the stereotypes of Spanish people being 'passionate' are true, then they may not be quite as complacent as the Brits have become.lane:


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

FrankBlack said:


> No, I simply meant that the UK has become so rule-bound that you need a licence to use the toilet now! It's State control gone mad, which is partly why I want to leave the UK. I'm hoping Spain or Portugal will still retain a little common sense in their system. And if the stereotypes of Spanish people being 'passionate' are true, then they may not be quite as complacent as the Brits have become.lane:



While agree with what you say about the UK, dont think for one nano second that things are easier in Spain - at least the reasons behind UK rules make sense!! Each district here has a strange selection of rules and regs and very few make any sense. So if you're coming to Spain to escape some of the UK stuff - you're not, you're coming to the champions of red tape and rule makers!!

Jo xxx


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

jojo said:


> While agree with what you say about the UK, dont think for one nano second that things are easier in Spain - at least the reasons behind UK rules make sense!! Each district here has a strange selection of rules and regs and very few make any sense. So if you're coming to Spain to escape some of the UK stuff - you're not, you're coming to the champions of red tape and rule makers!!
> 
> Jo xxx


Jo's right - and each Ayuntamiento will have its own interpretation of the rules!


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