# I would love to return to South Africa!



## udann (Jul 12, 2007)

Whilst everybody debates the pro's and con's of leaving South Africa, I cannot wait to get back there. I didn't leave beautiful Cape Town for any political or crime reasons, it was purely a family situation. Now, here in dismal England I cannot find a job despite a superb CV. Whilst South Africa's Hospitality industry standards surpass those of the U.K. by a long way, my CV counts for nothing here.
On the other hand, jobs in South Africa are scarce, plus there is the so called affirmative action or Economic Empowerment. 
My only solution seems 'self-employment', which in Tourism is not too difficult.
For my Tourism project in S.A., I am now looking for a Partner.
Interested parties are invited to contact me via this Forum or my own email:[email protected]
All letters are most welcome.
Ulrich Dannecker


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## supper (Dec 29, 2007)

sorry i can help you here as I too would like to return to S.A. after 30 years from the country . So my message is for anyone who could advise me (a retired Warrant Officer late of the Canadian Army wirh 28 years service in the Infantry), of possible job vacancies. My skills include very good managerial practices, very good leadership skills. Excellent instructional abilites. First language is English and I am proficient in French. Any advice , help would be greatly appreciated.
contact :


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## Americanmade (Jan 20, 2008)

How can you hate Affirmative Action after what the Blacks have been through, it is their country and if you dont like it you shouldnt be there. You are the guest. They are also 80% of the population but Whites have 99% of the wealth. I mean come on, they were slaves in their own country subjected to unspeakable cruelties including rapes, murders, destruction of culture language and dignity and you want to take Affirmative Action away from them too. Tell me what did you do or say when the Blacks were subjected to apartheid, did you care, did you help? Did your parents?


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

Americanmade said:


> How can you hate Affirmative Action after what the Blacks have been through, it is their country and if you dont like it you shouldnt be there. You are the guest. They are also 80% of the population but Whites have 99% of the wealth. I mean come on, they were slaves in their own country subjected to unspeakable cruelties including rapes, murders, destruction of culture language and dignity and you want to take Affirmative Action away from them too. Tell me what did you do or say when the Blacks were subjected to apartheid, did you care, did you help? Did your parents?


Please do not make personal attacks on posters here


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## Americanmade (Jan 20, 2008)

Its not an attack its the TRUTH! The world is very aware of what the Blacks have been subjected to there. Terrible how people think they can just take over a persons country treat them horribly steal rape and imprison them for no reason let them die in the streets. And then call themselves Native Africans. The only Native Africans are Black. Everyone on here speaks ill of those that suffer which is a DIRECT cause of the suffering they were subjected to for hundreds of years and now you want to take Affirmative Action away? those who want to take it away should leave the country I am sure the Blacks would rather you not have been there in the first place.


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

Americanmade said:


> Its not an attack its the TRUTH! The world is very aware of what the Blacks have been subjected to there. Terrible how people think they can just take over a persons country treat them horribly steal rape and imprison them for no reason let them die in the streets. And then call themselves Native Africans. The only Native Africans are Black. Everyone on here speaks ill of those that suffer which is a DIRECT cause of the suffering they were subjected to for hundreds of years and now you want to take Affirmative Action away? those who want to take it away should leave the country I am sure the Blacks would rather you not have been there in the first place.



The people on this forum are not directly responsible for the ills in South Africa, present or historically. If you want to make a point you should make a point but don't accuse people or their parents of doing nothing


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## Byo (Nov 28, 2007)

Americanmade said:


> Its not an attack its the TRUTH! The world is very aware of what the Blacks have been subjected to there. Terrible how people think they can just take over a persons country treat them horribly steal rape and imprison them for no reason let them die in the streets. And then call themselves Native Africans. The only Native Africans are Black. Everyone on here speaks ill of those that suffer which is a DIRECT cause of the suffering they were subjected to for hundreds of years and now you want to take Affirmative Action away? those who want to take it away should leave the country I am sure the Blacks would rather you not have been there in the first place.


Mmmm, wonder what happened to all the Native Americans then?


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## Worldwide Worker (Feb 20, 2008)

This just goes to show, don't make a comment unless you know what you are talking about and have the experience. This person obviously has no idea what he is talking about and is reliant purely on the media indoctrination.


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## Jacques1 (Feb 21, 2008)

Americanmade said:


> Its not an attack its the TRUTH! The world is very aware of what the Blacks have been subjected to there. Terrible how people think they can just take over a persons country treat them horribly steal rape and imprison them for no reason let them die in the streets. And then call themselves Native Africans. The only Native Africans are Black. Everyone on here speaks ill of those that suffer which is a DIRECT cause of the suffering they were subjected to for hundreds of years and now you want to take Affirmative Action away? those who want to take it away should leave the country I am sure the Blacks would rather you not have been there in the first place.



Not to be funny man but I hope you get banned from this site. You don't have a clue to what has happend in SA. Don't generalize.


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## Worldwide Worker (Feb 20, 2008)

Mate I am South African, born and bred. Lived and worked there most of my life until 2001. I still have family in South Africa and visit very regularly.


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

Jacques1 said:


> Not to be funny man but I hope you get banned from this site. You don't have a clue to what has happend in SA. Don't generalize.



The user was banned almost immediately!


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## aimcomm (Jul 12, 2008)

*Re: cannot wait to get back to south africa*

Ulrich:
I have 12 years of hospitality experience here in the united states and plan on going back to south africa soon. How has your return to south africa been so far fro you and your family? keep me posted, i plan to resid ein cape town too,
regards,
Sadie Singh



udann said:


> Whilst everybody debates the pro's and con's of leaving South Africa, I cannot wait to get back there. I didn't leave beautiful Cape Town for any political or crime reasons, it was purely a family situation. Now, here in dismal England I cannot find a job despite a superb CV. Whilst South Africa's Hospitality industry standards surpass those of the U.K. by a long way, my CV counts for nothing here.
> On the other hand, jobs in South Africa are scarce, plus there is the so called affirmative action or Economic Empowerment.
> My only solution seems 'self-employment', which in Tourism is not too difficult.
> For my Tourism project in S.A., I am now looking for a Partner.
> ...


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## zala (Jan 31, 2011)

Americanmade said:


> How can you hate Affirmative Action after what the Blacks have been through, it is their country and if you dont like it you shouldnt be there. You are the guest. They are also 80% of the population but Whites have 99% of the wealth. I mean come on, they were slaves in their own country subjected to unspeakable cruelties including rapes, murders, destruction of culture language and dignity and you want to take Affirmative Action away from them too. Tell me what did you do or say when the Blacks were subjected to apartheid, did you care, did you help? Did your parents?


American Maid - don't talk of what you know nothing about. Getting an education on world matters from CNN only perpetuates your predicament and does not validate your "everyone knows" rant.


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## Johanna (Apr 13, 2009)

zala said:


> American Maid - don't talk of what you know nothing about. Getting an education on world matters from CNN only perpetuates your predicament and does not validate your "everyone knows" rant.


Just want to point out that Americanmade was banned in February 2008!


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## Bootes (Feb 8, 2011)

I would just like to mention that the latest studies and statisics show that White South Africans have a 5% unemployment rate. Which means getting a job in South frica for whites is easier than it is in other whites countries such as New Zealand, Australia, Western Europe and the United States/Canada. So a white South African moaning about AA is probably playing the smallest violin in the world.


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## vegasboy (Apr 28, 2010)

None of the countries you refer to above have the following challenges: 

Consider that more than 800 0000 whites left the country, bringing down the unemployment rate for whites; 

that BEE has failed miserably and the ANC is pressured to address this with either escalating BEE targets or nationalising whatever they can; 

that In the last 12 years, the number of blacks graduating in South Africa with advanced degrees has grown from 361,000 to 1.4 million a year, yet more than 80% of senior management posts are still filled by whites; 

that the majority of the countries’ wealth is still in the hands of the whites.... 

and you may realize in years to come that the guy’s violin wasn’t that small after all...


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## Bootes (Feb 8, 2011)

vegasboy said:


> None of the countries you refer to above have the following challenges:
> 
> Consider that more than 800 0000 whites left the country, bringing down the unemployment rate for whites;
> 
> ...


So the majority of wealth is still in white hands(11% of population), and whites as you correctly point out still hold most of the top management positions yet whites need to cry about AA ?

Even these parastatals like Eskom that people bemoan their performance thinking they are having a jibe at the government (blacks?) are mostly white run still. 

Parastatals still lilly white: SAIRR - Times LIVE 

The violin is pretty tiny to say the least.

And the white population in South Africa grew 4 % in 2009 compared to the average growth rate of 1.1%. So this certainly isn't a factor in the low unemployment rate. I'll find that link for you later if you like.


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## Johanna (Apr 13, 2009)

:focus::focus:


Otherwise I will have to delete your posts!


Please!!!


If you want to argue, do it in private please!


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## Bootes (Feb 8, 2011)

Johanna said:


> :focus::focus:
> 
> 
> Otherwise I will have to delete your posts!
> ...


Sorry, it is not my intention to derail. But when people speak rubbish it must be pointed out. And there's one thing South Africans are famous for and it's speaking rubbish about their country. It would be funny if it wasn't so destructive.


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## vegasboy (Apr 28, 2010)

Bootes said:


> Sorry, it is not my intention to derail. But when people speak rubbish it must be pointed out. And there's one thing South Africans are famous for and it's speaking rubbish about their country. It would be funny if it wasn't so destructive.


 Johanna, I'm not sure if your comment of "...if you want to argue..." is aimed at me, but if so, I cannot see how a healthy cival debate can be seen as an arguement (read my post and you will see that I differed in a friendly manner. 

What I do think is sad, is for an expat to tell South Africans "And there's one thing South Africans are famous for and it's speaking rubbish about their country. It would be funny if it wasn't so destructive."


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## Halo (May 8, 2008)

Bootes said:


> Sorry, it is not my intention to derail. But when people speak rubbish it must be pointed out. And there's one thing South Africans are famous for and it's speaking rubbish about their country. It would be funny if it wasn't so destructive.


Truth is truth.....


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## zambezi.king (Oct 8, 2009)

Bootes said:


> So the majority of wealth is still in white hands(11% of population), and whites as you correctly point out still hold most of the top management positions yet whites need to cry about AA ?
> 
> Even these parastatals like Eskom that people bemoan their performance thinking they are having a jibe at the government (blacks?) are mostly white run still.
> 
> ...


The only reason that Eskom is still patching its network together is due to the few remaining COMPETENT technicians is has left. Why so few?... BEE / AA where posts are left unfilled due to quotas. Where has all the skilled labour gone... UK, AUS, etc. Why is the top management still so white dominated?... it's called expertise, experience and the fact that they worked their way to the top, not merely placed there to meet a quota.

It's amazing, when we SOUTH AFRICANS complain we are racist dinosours longing for the "good old days" when the BRITS complain about inefficiency, corruption, waste, cronyism, incompetence in Britian it is called some noble positive term. Have you never heard the term "whinging Pom"? It is precisely the whinging and demand for accountability and change that has provided Britian with a great infrastructure. So before you (as a guest in our country) bring race into the debate, as yourself why can't we also complain... it is not about race it is about competance. Why should a person with very little skills, experience and competance be given the top jobs? So that it can be stuffed up even more? So that what was once a very decent infrastructure can be totally destroyed to the detriment of the ENTIRE population?

If you can't do the job don't! 

It might be a tiny violin (from your limited perspective and experience) but at least it is still there. If we don't wake up it will soon only be a stringless bow sawing on a broken stick.


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## Zimtony (Jun 28, 2008)

zambezi.king said:


> The only reason that Eskom is still patching its network together is due to the few remaining COMPETENT technicians is has left. Why so few?... BEE / AA where posts are left unfilled due to quotas. Where has all the skilled labour gone... UK, AUS, etc. Why is the top management still so white dominated?... it's called expertise, experience and the fact that they worked their way to the top, not merely placed there to meet a quota.
> 
> It's amazing, when we SOUTH AFRICANS complain we are racist dinosours longing for the "good old days" when the BRITS complain about inefficiency, corruption, waste, cronyism, incompetence in Britian it is called some noble positive term. Have you never heard the term "whinging Pom"? It is precisely the whinging and demand for accountability and change that has provided Britian with a great infrastructure. So before you (as a guest in our country) bring race into the debate, as yourself why can't we also complain... it is not about race it is about competance. Why should a person with very little skills, experience and competance be given the top jobs? So that it can be stuffed up even more? So that what was once a very decent infrastructure can be totally destroyed to the detriment of the ENTIRE population?
> 
> ...


Very, very good points! Unfortunately, the "race card" is the easiest and oldest trick in the book to pull out when you don't like the question - or the answer! And those who don't like, or know the answer use it every possible moment - all it does is mask a sad truth!!!!!!!!!!


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## Halo (May 8, 2008)

Amen


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## Bootes (Feb 8, 2011)

zambezi.king said:


> The only reason that Eskom is still patching its network together is due to the few remaining COMPETENT technicians is has left. Why so few?... BEE / AA where posts are left unfilled due to quotas. Where has all the skilled labour gone... UK, AUS, etc. Why is the top management still so white dominated?... it's called expertise, experience and the fact that they worked their way to the top, not merely placed there to meet a quota.
> 
> It's amazing, when we SOUTH AFRICANS complain we are racist dinosours longing for the "good old days" when the BRITS complain about inefficiency, corruption, waste, cronyism, incompetence in Britian it is called some noble positive term. Have you never heard the term "whinging Pom"? It is precisely the whinging and demand for accountability and change that has provided Britian with a great infrastructure. So before you (as a guest in our country) bring race into the debate, as yourself why can't we also complain... it is not about race it is about competance. Why should a person with very little skills, experience and competance be given the top jobs? So that it can be stuffed up even more? So that what was once a very decent infrastructure can be totally destroyed to the detriment of the ENTIRE population?
> 
> ...


It reads a lot in your post like you're suggesting that all competent people are white. :confused2:


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## Bootes (Feb 8, 2011)

zambezi.king said:


> The only reason that Eskom is still patching its network together is due to the few remaining COMPETENT technicians is has left. Why so few?... BEE / AA where posts are left unfilled due to quotas. Where has all the skilled labour gone... UK, AUS, etc. Why is the top management still so white dominated?... it's called expertise, experience and the fact that they worked their way to the top, not merely placed there to meet a quota.
> 
> It's amazing, when we SOUTH AFRICANS complain we are racist dinosours longing for the "good old days" when the BRITS complain about inefficiency, corruption, waste, cronyism, incompetence in Britian it is called some noble positive term. Have you never heard the term "whinging Pom"? It is precisely the whinging and demand for accountability and change that has provided Britian with a great infrastructure. So before you (as a guest in our country) bring race into the debate, as yourself why can't we also complain... it is not about race it is about competance. Why should a person with very little skills, experience and competance be given the top jobs? So that it can be stuffed up even more? So that what was once a very decent infrastructure can be totally destroyed to the detriment of the ENTIRE population?
> 
> ...


It reads a lot in your post like you're suggesting that any competence that still exists is due only to whites ? :confused2:

I think that is why you might get called a racist dinosaur rather than the Brit.


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## Zimtony (Jun 28, 2008)

Bootes said:


> It reads a lot in your post like you're suggesting that all competent people are white. :confused2:


I didn't read anything like that in his post! What I understand of his post, is that because of quota rules, people are being promoted into positions for which they do not have the skills, education or experience to carry out the roles competently. This is not their fault, but the problem lies in the system. However, the fact remains that the infrsatructure still needs to be managed and maintained, but without the skills, this begins to fail! Sadly, this is shown in many other countries where quota systems and "political correctness" take priorit over common sense and proper succession planning.


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## Daxk (Jan 20, 2008)

I'm trying to understand why a competent non-white who has the benefit of AA Fast tracking would see the need to take his/her family overseas and start anew?

I'm also curious as to how or why a University graduate can still be classed as disadvantaged?


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## zambezi.king (Oct 8, 2009)

Bootes said:


> It reads a lot in your post like you're suggesting that any competence that still exists is due only to whites ? :confused2:
> 
> I think that is why you might get called a racist dinosaur rather than the Brit.


Well done! you seem to have taken the whole post and picked out selected words and phrases, jumbled them up and and drawn your own conclusion based on what you have liked to see. If you want to read the post in that way and not actually read what I was saying then go ahead.

There are non as blind as those that do not want see...

I never suggested, nor do I believe, what you stated, your bias and lack of understanding of the real issue has lead you to your conclusion.:confused2:


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## Halo (May 8, 2008)




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## Zimtony (Jun 28, 2008)

Halo said:


>


hahaha!!! Excellent!!:clap2::clap2::clap2:


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## crock (Oct 16, 2010)

*The struggle is over along with race based policies*

I believe that all policies that are based on race should be removed - that would constitue a free and fair society. Things will even out over time as long as government provides a decent education structure to help empower the previously disadavanted - which it is failing to do.

AA has done nothing but polarise this country. Not enough people have benefited from it - our disparity in wealth is worse now that it has ever been.

Read the news at NewsNook - South Africa News to see how politics in this country is failing the people.


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## Bootes (Feb 8, 2011)

Daxk said:


> I'm trying to understand why a competent non-white who has the benefit of AA Fast tracking would see the need to take his/her family overseas and start anew?
> 
> I'm also curious as to how or why a University graduate can still be classed as disadvantaged?


A need ? This is not the global village. 200k Brits leave that miserable island every year, very few for "a need". People make choices. I read that for every South African leaving South Africa 1 and a half (whatever that means) come back. Also South Africa has a massive influx of expats, which in my case is self evident with 1 in 4 retired people in South Africa being an expat. Can't move here without bumping into a Brit or German.


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## Bootes (Feb 8, 2011)

crock said:


> I believe that all policies that are based on race should be removed - that would constitue a free and fair society. Things will even out over time as long as government provides a decent education structure to help empower the previously disadavanted - which it is failing to do.
> 
> AA has done nothing but polarise this country. Not enough people have benefited from it - our disparity in wealth is worse now that it has ever been.
> 
> Read the news at NewsNook - South Africa News to see how politics in this country is failing the people.


Do you even believe the words you have typed ? 

Disparity of wealth being worse than ever and all that twot ? I mean come on.


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## Daxk (Jan 20, 2008)

Bootes said:


> A need ? This is not the global village. 200k Brits leave that miserable island every year, very few for "a need". People make choices. I read that for every South African leaving South Africa 1 and a half (whatever that means) come back. Also South Africa has a massive influx of expats, which in my case is self evident with 1 in 4 retired people in South Africa being an expat. Can't move here without bumping into a Brit or German.


Yes, and the population of the UK is?
apart from the GFC they leave for adventure, sun, a maid and a gardener,
and have done so for years!!
(prior to 1820 springs to mind)
why do South Africans leave?
a percentage leave after varsity to go and do their gap year, add some overseas experience to the CV, 
and for most of them, the UK is a target, its English speaking, SA's Uni credentials were good, those in law or accountancy or medicine merely had to write two small exams on UK law and UK tax ot be accredited, and I agree, they do go back.

Lots of them...usually after 5-7 years...one or two small children and a wife in tow...They go back fora dream, for a lifestyle taht no longer exists, and they go back with Sterling so they buy the house and all is good and happy...

and if what you read about 1.5 returning is true, its a very easy figure to prove.
If you arrive at a SA Border post, your green "mamba" is entered into the database, a very good database.
it tracks every SA passport leaving and re-entering.
It was designed by some very clever South Aricans, its rock hard and very efficient.
its there.
type in which fields you want and it will spew out exactly who left and when, who returned and when.
by Passport number, name, gender, race, age, and occupation.

It has never been published.
all those saffas returning would have ended the skills crises.
no?

No!
because a very large proportion of the "missing" South Africans are middle aged, (35-45)have 2.2 kids, are degreed and have an average of 10 years experience AFTER they returned from the gap year.

and their litany is the same...
Crime, education... future.

and yes, there is a huge influx of expats.

the first part is a paper I presented as to why SA SHOULD be creating retirement havens, SA has the climate, it has the labour, its building costs are low and it just makes so much sense to build retirement complexes with security and a small clinic next to the wine farms...
they bring in Foreign exchange,employ locals, and dont have children.
its a win win...

as to the expats, from all over... great!
they arrive,its difficult to get work permits, they do a skills transfer, fix bits and pieces, cant complain too much because its not their Country, do not have a vote and eventually will leave and go back where they came from.
Thy are also more tolerant of corruption and service delivery failure, it is after all an African Country.


Another win win...

Yes, white SA's only have a 4-5% unemployment rate.
there are only 4. something million of them.
so thats not many unemployed.
but thats also because SA has no welfare system to speak of, so white saffers will do ANY job to get money in, so therefore they are no longer unemployed, not so?

there is certainly no dole they can live on...
But there is also a glass ceiling for those who are employed.


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## Bootes (Feb 8, 2011)

Daxk said:


> Yes, and the population of the UK is?
> apart from the GFC they leave for adventure, sun, a maid and a gardener,
> and have done so for years!!
> (prior to 1820 springs to mind)
> ...


I don't know these expats who leave. South Africa was rated by a survey that targetted expats as the third best country in the world to retire in. So they're not as miserable as you're trying to hint at.

The best countries to retire to - Yahoo! UK & Ireland Finance


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## Halo (May 8, 2008)

To retire perhaps.......... When you have $$$ or £££'s you can still buy good healthcare... and odds dictate what when you are in a secure complex living it up while the maid washes the floor you have a better chance of dying of a heart-attack than by a home invasion....

LOL, ask those people who live there where their kids live..... It won't be in SA.


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## Daxk (Jan 20, 2008)

who is hinting at miserable?
it IS a beautiful Country, its people are friendly, it has a great climate.
it IS a cheap place to retire to.

But the Expats who are going there to WORK are getting Work permits not immigrating.
and even that is a mission..
and like all/ most expats around the World, they will return home or move on.


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## EthenGroom (Feb 1, 2011)

udann said:


> Whilst everybody debates the pro's and con's of leaving South Africa, I cannot wait to get back there. I didn't leave beautiful Cape Town for any political or crime reasons, it was purely a family situation. Now, here in dismal England I cannot find a job despite a superb CV. Whilst South Africa's Hospitality industry standards surpass those of the U.K. by a long way, my CV counts for nothing here.
> On the other hand, jobs in South Africa are scarce, plus there is the so called affirmative action or Economic Empowerment.
> My only solution seems 'self-employment', which in Tourism is not too difficult.
> For my Tourism project in S.A., I am now looking for a Partner.
> ...


HI

It's nice, for a change, to hear that some people actually love and admire South Africa as much as some of us, its proud residents. There is crime and political mayhem everywhere in the world. South Africa is alive with cultural diversity, great weather and tons of opportunities. I hope you come back to the motherland soon, and succeed in your career aspirations.


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## Halo (May 8, 2008)

If you believe that, I have some magic beans for sale.................... Going cheap.


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## Zimtony (Jun 28, 2008)

Halo said:


> If you believe that, I have some magic beans for sale.................... Going cheap.


hahaha!!! And a HUGE pair of rose tinted glasses to go with them!


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## Bootes (Feb 8, 2011)

Halo said:


> If you believe that, I have some magic beans for sale.................... Going cheap.


I think we get it guy. You hate South Africa with a passion. You probably need to get over it more than we really need to hear it. This is a place for people to talk about expat life in South Africa, not your pity parade.


20 000 Brits move to South Africa every year because they love it. The culture, the lifestyle, the weather, the food and wine, everything. It's not for you, and that's your choice. Do you also hang around fan sites of movies you hate telling everyone why you think they're wrong to like the film ?


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## vegasboy (Apr 28, 2010)

Bootes said:


> I think we get it guy. You hate South Africa with a passion. You probably need to get over it more than we really need to hear it. This is a place for people to talk about expat life in South Africa, not your pity parade.
> 
> 
> 20 000 Brits move to South Africa every year because they love it. The culture, the lifestyle, the weather, the food and wine, everything. It's not for you, and that's your choice. Do you also hang around fan sites of movies you hate telling everyone why you think they're wrong to like the film ?


Bootes, you are missing the point. Before I decided to buy real estate in the US, I spent about 2 years on a similar forum. It is absolutely crucial to have opinions from a wide spectrum of locals who have been born and bred there, regardless of whether you agree with their sentiment or not.

Thank goodness for people like Halo and the like giving the facts as they are. Face it, if you are an expat, you only see what you want to see. It's a psychological thing. I do the same in Florida. I'm not genetically & culturally part of a heritage in the US that goes back generations. So even if they say what I do not want to hear, I listen, observe, search things out, and have learned to RESPECTFULLY disagree if need be.

You clearly do not understand the ideology and challenges of this country, and your attacks and slander on posters are not helping the OP. :focus:If the poster still hasn't got a job in the hospitality industry, inbox me and let me have your thoughts. I may be able to connect you with the MD of comfortstay.co.za


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## Weebie (Sep 16, 2009)

Rather earn Rand than Sterling. Sterling is f**kin worthless.


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## Halo (May 8, 2008)

Bootes said:


> The U.K is a dismal choice of a place to live.


IYO........... Enough said.


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## Bootes (Feb 8, 2011)

Halo said:


> IYO........... Enough said.


Qualified opinion.


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## Johanna (Apr 13, 2009)

OP started this thread in 2007.............. 

PM each other if you disagree, please do not use this forum for personal attacks!!!


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## stuart72 (Mar 21, 2010)

*what is this*

Why do all forums and bloggs regarding SA end up with such heated discussions. No wonder the country is falling apart, government is corrupt, no jobs, crazy employment laws etc. 

While the people of SA argue away their lives, opportunists are allowed to enter govt and rape the country, poor citizens need extra protection of their rights, external investors stand back and question the stability of the nation........... damn it all. The only way to change all this is to unite, stop slagging each other off and continuing and exacerbating divisive policies, and work towards creating a better civil society based on lessons larnt from our illustrious past.

let the past rest in peace, otherwise the future will definitely be very bleak.


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## Halo (May 8, 2008)

stuart72 said:


> Why do all forums and bloggs regarding SA end up with such heated discussions. No wonder the country is falling apart, government is corrupt, no jobs, crazy employment laws etc.


Simple, people need to know the reality of what South Africa is about, how it got to where it is and where it it heading.


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## stuart72 (Mar 21, 2010)

*about knowledge*

Without being rude, what do you know about it you who are from UK. Thats miles away from Africa let alone SA.


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