# What commercial visa partner says



## jack123 (Aug 7, 2012)

My wife went to hand in the supporting documents etc at the Visa center in China and the person checking off our documents is saying there should be a handful of documents in there such as my wife's letter confirming employment and her bank statements (applying under Cat A with my employment)

They're also asking for a copy of last time's visa refusal letter, though I guess that's more normal! Hopefully they don't mix anything up!


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## jack123 (Aug 7, 2012)

So, just following the previous post. I'm fairly sure that when applying under Cat A, the applicant's employment/wages are not taken into consideration at all?

What was also funny is that the person there said that there is a .pdf checklist online that tells you exactly what documents you should have!


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## jack123 (Aug 7, 2012)

Regarding the above point, as I, the sponsor's wages meet and exceed the financial requirement then surely (as long as the required evidence for that is present) any/all other sources of income would just make it look better. As such, even if they do decide that the wife's wages count, we would meet the requirement with or without that anyway.

Lastly, my wife mentioned a point that is actually bugging me. I provided six month's worth of relevant bank statements showing the wages being paid in. Every month at some point I would put a good portion of that into a savings account. I did not provide a statement for the savings account, though I am under the impression that they do not care what you do with your wages as long as you meet the financial requirement?

Basically, all I'm looking for is a nod of agreement from the more experienced members here to put my mind at ease on a few points that I'm fairly sure I'm right on anyway! As the application has now been submitted, the waiting game has begun. Thought I would end these uncertainties before they drive me crazy!


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## MacUK (Jul 3, 2012)

If she has a previous refusal, she must hand in the refusal letter. And the letter from the employer is mandatory as well. 
Applicant's income is not taken into consideration, however if she is in employment, a payslip or two can be submitted to show that she does indeed get paid. 
In our case, I was unemployed, but worked as a freelancer, so i submitted my tax documents, bank statements to show that money was going in and out of my account, but normally that's not mandatory. 
Only the sponspor's income is taken into consideration, like I said, and only the sum that goes in the bank account.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

I am constantly surprised and not a little annoyed how those 'commercial visa partners' have their own rules about which document to submit, which are at variance with what UKBA says. Better training by Home Office is urgently required methinks. 
In this case, no applicant's employment and financial details are required (unless they are already in UK on a visa with the right to work, e.g. student). You should NOT be submitting any unnecessary documents, especially financial, as they only serve to confuse ECO and you lose the focus of your application. 
Also what you do with sponsor's salary once it hits the bank account is immaterial and doesn't require explanation.


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## MacUK (Jul 3, 2012)

That's true....in the e-mail I received to confirm that I had submitted my application, there was a section that demanded that the applicant's employment details should be submitted, payslips for three or six months, no less, which is contrary to the guidlines on the UKBA website. 
Go figure. :/


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

jack 123

If you feel strongly about it, and you will do future applicants a big favour, you may like to drop a line to ECM at UKBA China and draw their attention to this practice. But only after you have been successful with your visa application. Look for complaint about visa partner under 'Contact'.


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## Lihong (Jul 2, 2013)

Jack123

Thank you for posting your wife's experience. We will make the application in Beijing in early March. 

Did your wife submit letter confirming employment and her bank statements?


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## jack123 (Aug 7, 2012)

*Looking for a little reassurance...*

Hi All,

As I can't see my last post I can only assume it was deleted for posting too many times myself. I do apologise, it's just that the incident at the Visa centre in China left me a little unsettled! Whilst I'm fairly certain that we acted correctly on all the points that they brought up, I was looking for a little reassurance from all you knowledgeable people here!

First of all, regardless of where the centre is based, they must follow the same rules set by UKBA, correct? 

We're applying for a spouse visa via Cat A and upon handing in the documents my wife encountered a couple of strange points -


There was someone to check the documents included and had a checklist he was ticking off. Said that the documents were missing my wife's (the applicant) employment information.
Now on the above, there are two points I would like to dicuss. Firstly, as everyone's circumstances differ surely there cannot be a checklist for everyone? But also, for the application surely only the sponsor's employment details matter?
What was also mentioned was that I didn't include a bank statement for my savings account, though that shouldn't matter either right? As I included the bank statements over the required period where the wages were paid in.

Any views on these points? Fairly sure that I've done no wrong in not having submitted my wife's employment documents and bank statement for the savings account.


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## Lihong (Jul 2, 2013)

MacUK replied

If she has a previous refusal, she must hand in the refusal letter. And the letter from the employer is mandatory as well.
Applicant's income is not taken into consideration, however if she is in employment, a payslip or two can be submitted to show that she does indeed get paid.
In our case, I was unemployed, but worked as a freelancer, so i submitted my tax documents, bank statements to show that money was going in and out of my account, but normally that's not mandatory.
Only the sponspor's income is taken into consideration, like I said, and only the sum that goes in the bank account.

and

That's true....in the e-mail I received to confirm that I had submitted my application, there was a section that demanded that the applicant's employment details should be submitted, payslips for three or six months, no less, which is contrary to the guidlines on the UKBA website.
Go figure. :/


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## Lihong (Jul 2, 2013)

I said

Thank you for posting your wife's experience. We will make the application in Beijing in early March.

Did your wife submit letter confirming employment and her bank statements?


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## jack123 (Aug 7, 2012)

Wow this is weird, originally this thread was named something along the lines of 'well that was strange' but its now been changed. I actually thought the thread might have been deleted...


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Hahaha. This mod changed it to make it more descriptive. And have merged the two threads and tidied up.


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## jack123 (Aug 7, 2012)

Lihong said:


> Jack123
> 
> Thank you for posting your wife's experience. We will make the application in Beijing in early March.
> 
> Did your wife submit letter confirming employment and her bank statements?


We did not submit the documents. We were told this at the appointment and unfortunately these documents would have then needed translating. This would have taken a couple of days at least and even though the guy said that she could 'come back later' with it. We opted against it as all previous evidence suggested that these were not necessary.

(To be honest, mainly made the judgement on the basis that we meet the financial requirement with my wages alone so it shouldn't matter!)


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## jack123 (Aug 7, 2012)

So to not include the wife's employment documents and statements for my savings account was correct? Am sure it was the right thing to do, its just a little unsettling to be told otherwise by the visa centre themselves!


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Visa application centres are staffed not by UKBA personnel but entirely by employees of a commercial visa 'partner' - on contract with UKBA to run the centre and, in many cases, accept supporting documents. They should NOT be telling people contradictory things and should really be better trained to deliver their services. I suspect UKBA don't know the rubbish they are sprouting and should exercise a better control.


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## jack123 (Aug 7, 2012)

Joppa said:


> Visa application centres are staffed not by UKBA personnel but entirely by employees of a commercial visa 'partner' - on contract with UKBA to run the centre and, in many cases, accept supporting documents. They should NOT be telling people contradictory things and should really be better trained to deliver their services. I suspect UKBA don't know the rubbish they are sprouting and should exercise a better control.


Ouch, well that at least explains a lot such as the check list. Hopefully they don't 'expect' these documents otherwise it sounds like a lengthy appeal already...


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## jack123 (Aug 7, 2012)

Sooo whilst they were saying these were 'advised', surely they cannot reject our application based on these??


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

No. Just don't take much, well any notice of what they say. It's UKBA staff you need to convince.


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## jack123 (Aug 7, 2012)

Joppa said:


> No. Just don't take much, well any notice of what they say. It's UKBA staff you need to convince.


I get the feeling that I made an incorrect assumption with this topic. Correct me if I'm wrong, the Visa application centers are run by third parties independently from UKBA.

HOWEVER their role ends at receiving and forwarding on the supporting documents. The ones to make a decision on your application will eventually be a member of staff from UKBA who will make a judgement based on the universal rules set down?

If so, I've been worried all day over nothing!


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## jack123 (Aug 7, 2012)

Was what I outlined above actually correct Joppa? My actual worry all day was that they just decided to do everything however they wanted in China regardless of the rules...


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Your assumptions are correct. That's why I said ignore what VAC staff say!


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## jack123 (Aug 7, 2012)

Joppa said:


> Your assumptions are correct. That's why I said ignore what VAC staff say!


Haha, really sorry Joppa! Was at work yesterday and was only ever able to glimpse what was written and never had a good chance to digest it all!


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## Lihong (Jul 2, 2013)

Wish you and your wife success. 

Please post how things go.


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## jack123 (Aug 7, 2012)

Will do if/when we receive any updates!


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## Lihong (Jul 2, 2013)

Dear Joppa, Jack, anyone with experience

I have filled all sections of VAF4A online except Employment section (I am the wife applicant)

I don't know why the form asks for Employment information because my salary cannot be used for application. I feel I have to fill the form in with correct information not just 'not applicable'. 

Jack, have you heard from Home Office about your visa? 
Joppa, I definitely should not take documents for this section to Visa4UK office Beijing, correct?
Anyone with experience, any other experience or advice?

Thank you


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## Whatshouldwedo (Sep 29, 2013)

Lihong said:


> Dear Joppa, Jack, anyone with experience
> 
> I have filled all sections of VAF4A online except Employment section (I am the wife applicant)
> 
> I don't know why the form asks for Employment information because my salary cannot be used for application. I feel I have to fill the form in with correct information not just 'not applicable'.


I agree! We were surprised at that section too! My husband does work so we just filled in the details. As we did not really want his employer to know we have applied for a spouse visa, we hope the ECO will not contact him, but so be it if that happens! My husband could end up with no visa and no job!


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

There are some applicants who need to complete that section.
If you don't, just leave it blank or write N/A.


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## Whatshouldwedo (Sep 29, 2013)

Joppa said:


> There are some applicants who need to complete that section.
> If you don't, just leave it blank or write N/A.


Oh dear, so we should not have completed it! I presume they will just ignore it if it is irrelevant to our application.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Hopefully. Disclosing unnecessary financial information can complicate your application.


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## Whatshouldwedo (Sep 29, 2013)

Joppa said:


> Hopefully. Disclosing unnecessary financial information can complicate your application.


I saw someone else, I think on another forum, mention their surprise at that section but there was no indication that, applying under settlement, settlement, husband, that you should not complete that section. I hope any new application forms are much clearer. Of course, we are at their mercy so what will be, will be.


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## Lihong (Jul 2, 2013)

Yes, Whatshouldwedo, I hope so.

Joppa, I will use your advice and say 'not applicable'. I think maybe I should write a note in 'Additional Information' section and say why.


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## Karra (Jun 6, 2013)

Lihong said:


> Yes, Whatshouldwedo, I hope so.
> 
> Joppa, I will use your advice and say 'not applicable'. I think maybe I should write a note in 'Additional Information' section and say why.


Now not completing the applicants employment section is something new I am learning! While it may be irrelevant, but the application will not be complete without that section and will we be able to submit it? 

Can someone who applied for the same category Settlement-Settlement- Wife/Husband share their experience?


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## Lihong (Jul 2, 2013)

Karra, you are right. Have to answer some questions to complete section. 

I am in full time employment
I am in China
I started work day/month/year
I have no other work

We have written this note to put in Additional Information.

Employment section

I have added ‘not applicable’ to these questions so there is no confusion that I am applying using my income. I am aware that I cannot use my income towards meeting the financial requirement. 

Yes, I want to hear other people's experience too


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## Karra (Jun 6, 2013)

Still confusing Lihong! Why would they include this questions if they are irrelevant and yet whats the point in additional information, if the information is in part 4? Huh, let's see if someone, who recently applied and approved will post about this!!


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## Karra (Jun 6, 2013)

Lihong, one more question.
You said you have put N/A for applicant's employment. Where did you put that? Since it gives certain questions with yes and no?


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## Lihong (Jul 2, 2013)

For Applicant's Employment I put 'Full Time Employment'. Then page opened up with other questions


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## Karra (Jun 6, 2013)

I did the same, but if we are going to miss that part where do we put N/A ?


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

I haven't looked at the new online form, but I wonder those questions about applicant's employment abroad appear because you have chosen a wrong option? The only applicants whose overseas income counts are those whose sponsor is on disability-related benefit and therefore exempt from financial requirement. So I suggest you start from beginning and make sure you choose the right option on financial vs maintenance requirement?


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## Karra (Jun 6, 2013)

Joppa, I have registered my online application under Settlement-Settlement-Wife, which I presume is the right option for my spouse application outside the UK? Once you start filling the sections, it does not give you any financial or maintenance options, just sections to be filled in.
Also even if I try to put N/A on the employment section, I won't be able, because it gives no such option, other than say unemployed, but then it will be a false statement, which, of course we should not be doing.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

No, there is no such option of financial vs maintenance but there must be a question about whether sponsor is exempt from financial requirement, about being on disability-related benefit etc?


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## Lihong (Jul 2, 2013)

Have to answer these questions giving answers

I am in (China)
I started work day/month/year
I have no other work/other work

Other questions, can answer 'not applicable'.
Examples: income, place of work


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Just let me get it right. You are applying abroad for a spouse visa, and completing online form. It should be the online version of VAF4A, which is called personal details from and has no financial questions. You only answer questions relating to finance, income etc on Appendix 2, which isn't online form but needs to be printed out and completed by hand.
So I don't know why you are having difficulty.
Form VAF4A: https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/274029/VAF4A.pdf


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## Karra (Jun 6, 2013)

Definitely no such option. The sections are
Passport and travel information
Personal details and travel history
Family details
Employment
Medical treatment
Sponsor details
English language
Additional Information

The other thing that crosses my mind is, if that employment section is about the sponsor, but it's hardly likely, since it does not say sponsor and the sponsors details are further down.

Joppa, I so appreciate your patience in clarifying this matter with us.


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## Karra (Jun 6, 2013)

Joppa said:


> Just let me get it right. You are applying abroad for a spouse visa, and completing online form. It should be the online version of VAF4A, which is called personal details from and has no financial questions. You only answer questions relating to finance, income etc on Appendix 2, which isn't online form but needs to be printed out and completed by hand.
> So I don't know why you are having difficulty.
> Form VAF4A: https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/274029/VAF4A.pdf


The online version is a little different from VAF4A, for example it does not elaborate children , if they are not dependent or traveling with you/ no names, just yes-no/and also the Employment section is included here, hence all this confusion!


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## Lihong (Jul 2, 2013)

Online form is different. Much shorter. Some questions are the same. Employment section is new.


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## Karra (Jun 6, 2013)

Joppa. what about this?
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa...ment_data/file/270197/sup-docs-settlement.pdf
Specifically

Evidence of your current employment or studies
This could include:
 a letter from your employer on company headed paper – detailing your salary and the length of your employment, confirming that you have been given time off work, and stating whether this time off is paid or unpaid
 a letter from your education provider on headed paper – confirming your enrolment and leave of absence
 business registration documents confirming the business owner’s name and the date when the business started trading

Is this relevant at all?


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

I can see that.
My guess is that employment questions are there, not because they have any relevance on meeting financial requirement (it doesn't) but to build up a picture of you in your home country. So just put what you can but don't worry about affecting sponsor's financial information and meeting the requirement, which will be detailed in Appendix 2.


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## Karra (Jun 6, 2013)

Joppa said:


> I can see that.
> My guess is that employment questions are there, not because they have any relevance on meeting financial requirement (it doesn't) but to build up a picture of you in your home country. So just put what you can but don't worry about affecting sponsor's financial information and meeting the requirement, which will be detailed in Appendix 2.


Thank you for the information.

So I will be filling the employment section with all the fields, including the salary after tax? Do we also need to provide evidence of salaries or anything else related to the employment, as stated in the guide?

I thought I was all clear with the online form, whereas, one question brings another. Sorry and big thanks again!!


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## Lihong (Jul 2, 2013)

Karra, thank you for posting the link.

'a letter from your employer on company headed paper – detailing your salary and the length of your employment, confirming that you have been given time off work, and stating whether this time off is paid or unpaid.'

What to do about this? I cannot ask my employer for 30 months time off work.


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## Whatshouldwedo (Sep 29, 2013)

Joppa said:


> I can see that.
> My guess is that employment questions are there, not because they have any relevance on meeting financial requirement (it doesn't) but to build up a picture of you in your home country. So just put what you can but don't worry about affecting sponsor's financial information and meeting the requirement, which will be detailed in Appendix 2.


That is exactly what I thought, Joppa, and why we filled it out. Applicants are put in a very difficult situation when filling out forms and whether to fill out all areas that *appear* to be required. Imagine the applicant misses it out feeling it is not relevant and finding out it is! I felt it was, as you say, a way of building a profile of the applicant. Maybe it is just a mistake just as there is no option to pick spouse as the sponsor. As you say, Appendix 2 will make it abundantly clear as to whether the applicant meets the financial requirements. The online form is quite different from the VAF4a. As Karra says there is nothing about children and your relationship with them in the online form so we included that information in our covering letters.


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## Karra (Jun 6, 2013)

Whatshouldwedo, I totally agree with you. However, did you provide any evidence regarding your huband's job, salary, etc? This what confusing me now, after reading the guide.


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## Whatshouldwedo (Sep 29, 2013)

Karra said:


> Whatshouldwedo, I totally agree with you. However, did you provide any evidence regarding your huband's job, salary, etc? This what confusing me now, after reading the guide.


Yes, we did, though I did not provide any supporting documents. As they asked for contact information etc, they can call his employer if they want to verify information given. This section should have no bearing on meeting the requirements, but who knows?!

As we have so long to wait for a decision, we are trying to put it out of our minds and get on with our life!


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## Karra (Jun 6, 2013)

Whatshouldwedo said:


> Yes, we did, though I did not provide any supporting documents. As they asked for contact information etc, they can call his employer if they want to verify information given. This section should have no bearing on meeting the requirements, but who knows?!
> 
> As we have so long to wait for a decision, we are trying to put it out of our minds and get on with our life!


Yes, I think I will fill in that section(well, already have filled) and limit with that. As you say they can contact the employer and verify if that matters at all. Thanks for the information and good luck with the outcome of your application!!! Can't wait for mine to be done, it's been quite stressful.


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## Whatshouldwedo (Sep 29, 2013)

Karra said:


> Yes, I think I will fill in that section(well, already have filled) and limit with that. As you say they can contact the employer and verify if that matters at all. Thanks for the information and good luck with the outcome of your application!!! Can't wait for mine to be done, it's been quite stressful.


Stressful? You can say that again! Good luck with yours too!


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## Lihong (Jul 2, 2013)

This conversation has been very helpful. I will complete the employment section. 



jack123 said:


> My wife went to hand in the supporting documents etc at the Visa center in China and the person checking off our documents is saying there should be a handful of documents in there such as my wife's letter confirming employment and her bank statements (applying under Cat A with my employment)


I am also applying from China so I will also add a letter from my employer which gives the same information as on the form and maybe last three bank statements. 

Good luck Karra and Whatshouldwedo


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## Whatshouldwedo (Sep 29, 2013)

The best we could have done had we sent supporting documents for the applicant's employment details is a letter from his employer confirming that he is in fact employed by them and what his salary is. There is no way we could get a letter to confirm that he has been given leave, paid or unpaid, of 33 months! Our intention is to go and settle in the UK, not go for a very extended holiday! The ECO will either fail us for not sending in a supporting letter, ask for the employers letter or accept us on the main requirements. Time will tell! However, now we have established that the information is required, I would advise all applicants to provide everything that they are asked for.


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## Karra (Jun 6, 2013)

WSWD, so you think it's best to provide the evidence of the employment. In that case, who is going to sign my letter of employment, if I am the Managing Director of the charitable organization. Above me it's the president who is USA based. Can my accountant sign and seal it?Also I am paid cash, so no bank statements for me. What do you think?


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## Whatshouldwedo (Sep 29, 2013)

I wish I could advise you, Karra. I was so surprised when I saw the section for applicant's employment details that we did not even read the guide on that part! So we have to take responsibility for failing to send supporting documents. I think you just have to do your best. If you cannot get a supporting letter from the president of yoyr organization, maybe a letter from yourself explaining the situation? I don't know and I hope someone more knowledgable can advise. These forms seem to change so suddenly and unexpectedly, it is a wonder we have not gone mad in the process!


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## Karra (Jun 6, 2013)

Alternatively along with a letter signed and sealed on the organization letter head, I can get the register book translated and attach it to the letter. That's to prove that I am the director and why I have signed it.


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## Lihong (Jul 2, 2013)

Joppa said:


> I can see that.
> My guess is that employment questions are there, not because they have any relevance on meeting financial requirement (it doesn't) but to build up a picture of you in your home country. So just put what you can but don't worry about affecting sponsor's financial information and meeting the requirement, which will be detailed in Appendix 2.


Karra. I think fill in the form and give your best evidence and it will be fine. Whatshouldwedo. You filled in the form so they can contact the workplace or ask you for more evidence.


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