# Expected Child Birth



## rwahdan

Dear All,

Where in the EOI I can state that I am expecting a baby girl in November 2013? I want to submit my EOI now and maybe later add the child after birth and issuing of passport.


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## Joshua82

Good question. I am also curious about what maternity care is like in NZ?


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## lisamct

Joshua82 said:


> Good question. I am also curious about what maternity care is like in NZ?


I'm a midwife in NZ, anything in particular you want to know?


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## escapedtonz

rwahdan said:


> Dear All, Where in the EOI I can state that I am expecting a baby girl in November 2013? I want to submit my EOI now and maybe later add the child after birth and issuing of passport.


No place on the EOI for this kind of information but assuming your EOI is chosen from the pool and you receive ITA there will be an area on the formal residency application where you can inform immigration that you are pregnant and expecting a child in Nov 13.
Immigration will know that you are pregnant anyway from your medical and the fact you will not be supplying an X-ray.

You must wait till your child is born, has a birth certificate and passport before they are included on the residency application.
Also the application can be updated with a baby at a later stage and they must have a medical but don't need to provide an X-ray. 

We did this with our little one. We submitted the application in April 2010, just the two of us. My wife fell pregnant in May 2010 and he was born Feb 2011. We just added him on in Feb 2011 after I'd registered the birth and received his passport.
All we had to do was take him to a specific GP in Liverpool who conducted immigration medicals for babies.

Sent from my iPad using ExpatForum


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## Joshua82

lisamct said:


> I'm a midwife in NZ, anything in particular you want to know?


Hi lisamct, thank you for the offer. I suppose I am wondering about everything in general. Is everything paid for by the government? Is there maternity and paternity leave? I keep hearing about midwives, is that how it is done, are doctors involved?


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## lisamct

Joshua82 said:


> Hi lisamct, thank you for the offer. I suppose I am wondering about everything in general. Is everything paid for by the government? Is there maternity and paternity leave? I keep hearing about midwives, is that how it is done, are doctors involved?


To answer some of your questions;

Everything is paid for depending on your immigration status. Any woman with a partner who is a NZ resident or citizen or who has a visa that allows her to be in the country for a minimum of 2 years is entitled to free maternity care under the public health system. If you want to hire a private obstetrician then you need to pay for that yourself. 
If you don't qualify for free care it can be quite a costly business, from memory the cheapest package, basic antenatal care, vaginal birth and basic postnatal care runs to around $5000.
Private obstetricians run from about $7000.

There is maternity and paternity leave. For maternity leave you must have been working for at least 6 months for the same employer and entitlement is up to 14 weeks. 

Most maternity care is provided by midwives in NZ. Basically your options are;
- An LMC (Lead Maternity Carer) midwife - these midwives look after you from start to finish, generally around 8 weeks when you first book up to 4-6 weeks post natally. If your low risk they provide all the care and no doctors are involved if they're not required. You'll book with and see either one specific midwife or one of a small group of midwives at each appointment. If you have a vaginal birth your midwife will be with you throughout labour and catch your baby. Should you develop problems at any point they will refer you to an obstetrician who will either take over part of your care or see you and then refer you back to midwifery care if you don't need ongoing medical input.

-Shared care - here you see both a midwife and either a GP or obstetrician during pregnancy. This is for women who have specific obstetric concerns (medical conditions/diabetes/cardiac issues/previous caesareans etc)

-Hospital midwifery care - Here your care is pretty much the same as with an LMC midwife except you generally see a wider variety of midwives (whoever happens to be on shift on the day) and then whoever is on shift on labour ward will be with you for the birth.

-Private obstetric care - here you hire a private obstetrician. They will see you a few times during pregnancy with the rest of your visits being done by a midwife in their employment. You will be looked after in labour by whoever happens to be on shift on labour ward but the obstetrician will come in and deliver your baby and then you'll be looked after by the midwifes after that and post natally. 

If your low risk you can choose to birth either at home, in a primary low risk birthing unit or in hospital (although there is a push for hospitals to discourage low risk women, who dont need to be there, to birth in primary units as the hospitals are bursting at the seems with high risk women)

If your higher risk or if you book with a private obstetrician you'll birth in the hospital.

Sorry for the essay, you can kinda tell I'm passionate about maternity care!


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## Joshua82

Wow thank you lisamct, that is some good information, and I am glad you are passionate about it 

All of that makes sense to me. Although it is a bit different than what we have here in Canada. In Canada we do not really use midwives, everything is through obstetric care and your GP. Also we do not even have the option of private care. Given the way our politicians speak about it there is not a single civilized country out there that has private care of any sort, which is a complete lie, many European nations along with NZ and Japan have mixed systems.

So when you say 14 weeks of maternity leave are you meaning paid maternity leave? I would say that in Canada a good employer will give about 14 weeks of paid maternity. We also have the option of taking an entire year of 'unpaid' maternity leave where we receive employment insurance money (~50% of your normal pre-birth income) from the federal government if we have been working full time for 1+ years. 

How much paternity leave do men usually get? In Canada most fathers still only take 1-3 weeks off and it is almost always without pay. As it is the government does not require employers to give us time off so some men have to use vacation days as their 'paternity leave'. The really good employers give up to a year of unpaid leave to fathers and will give them pay for the first 4 weeks of it. I am not sure if men can get the same employment insurance money from the government during this time off as women can. 

I had no idea midwifery was so big in NZ. It is something my wife has always been interested in but since there is no demand for it in Canada she has never bothered to pursue it. She might want to once we are in NZ though.


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## Vmorris22

Would you say it is cheaper to have a home birth?


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## Guest

NZ is very different even to South Africa in using midwives to the level they do. In SA the gynaecologist is everything and makes all the decisions. In NZ they are only really consulted if there are problems, not to say you don't go see one at all, just that it is a very different approach which is fine as long as the midwife identifies any issue early and makes the right call under pressure to involve them as early as possible. But my daughter has had 2 grandkids here and 2 months pregnant and the service has been great. The second birth was more complicated and they took no chances, assessed things quickly and gave her a C-section. Now the midwife has already said she can try for a natural birth with the next one. Great care afterwards even in the public hospitals despite what you may hear -certainly not as hotel-like as the private ones though. I do payroll sometimes and should know more about it but I don't sorry but go onto Department of Labour's website and check it out www.dol.govt.nz
All the best and NZ is a great place to raise a family!


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## lisamct

Vmorris22 said:


> Would you say it is cheaper to have a home birth?


If your have the appropriate visa than its free no matter where you decide to give birth (unless you hire a private OB but they dont go anywhere near home birth)
If your not entitled to free care then your very unlikely to find an LMC who would be willing to take you on. LMC's are paid a fee directly by the government for each woman they look after, if your not entitled to free care they wont get paid until you pay and, sadly, as most people who should pay for their care dont ever pay the fees an LMC would be unlikely to take you on with the risk of not being paid, the hospital system can more easily absorb the risk (and they have no choice to give you care, an LMC can choose not to)

As far as leave is concerned this page gives you an idea of what is available and what is paid/un paid;
What paid and unpaid leave is available and when does it start?


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## topcat83

lisamct said:


> ....If your not entitled to free care then your very unlikely to find an LMC who would be willing to take you on. ...


If you're not entitled to free care then it's likely that any visa you have is not one that allows you to reside permanently in New Zealand. 

In the past, this was treated as Immigration New Zealand as 'not having an acceptable standard of health'. And there were instances where people were refused entry because of their pregnancy, and their risk of giving birth while in New Zealand. I.e. Immigration NZ didn't want people on temporary visas to expect to come to New Zealand and give birth at a cost to our public health system.

In July last year the instructions were updated.
Now individuals in the later stages of pregnancy can visit NZ, but must prove that they are a bona fide visitor, student or worker and are either eligible for publicly-funded maternity health services; or are able to pay for maternity health services (evidence of at least NZ$9,000 will be required, in addition to adequate funds for maintenance and accommodation). 

see Changes to temporary entry immigration instructions for pregnant applicants. 

And i think that one of the reasons for this change is that a baby born in New Zealand is no longer automatically a New Zealand citizen. 

From 1 January 2006, children born in New Zealand (or in the Cook Islands, Niue or Tokelau) acquire New Zealand citizenship at birth only if at least one of their parents:

is a New Zealand citizen; or
is entitled to be in New Zealand indefinitely in terms of the Immigration Act 2009 (i.e. has a residence permit or visa, or is an Australian citizen or permanent resident); or
is entitled to reside indefinitely in the Cook Islands, Tokelau or Niue.

A child born in New Zealand is a New Zealand citizen by birth if they would otherwise be stateless. 

See Changes to Citizenship by Birth in New Zealand from 2006: Frequently Asked Questions - dia.govt.nz

Hope that helps!


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## lisamct

topcat83 said:


> If you're not entitled to free care then it's likely that any visa you have is not one that allows you to reside permanently in New Zealand.


Its not only that though, someone on an 18 month work visa could come here not pregnant and then fall pregnant, they wouldnt be eligible for free maternity care either as their visa is for less than 2 years.


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## Joshua82

Great information. Guess people better be careful about getting pregnant.


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