# Confused about residency....



## travelling-man (Jun 17, 2011)

I'm a bit confused...... Can someone tell me if as a UK citizen & passport holder, do I have the right to reside in Portugal as it's part of the EU or do I have to meet stipulated criteria and if so, what criteria?

FWIW, I have enough to buy a house bond/mortgage free and sufficient income to pay the bills etc but I'm sure as hell not wealthy.

If there are stipulated criteria, is there ways to circumvent them such as occasional trips back to the UK or over the border etc?


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## canoeman (Mar 3, 2011)

If you are a EU Citizen then, Yes you have the right to live or work within any EU country.
As each EU country has the right to impose local conditions then,

From Portugals perspective you must register your Residence within 30 days of 3 months of moving to Portugal.
This is now generally done with your local Camra, this is where criteria can be different, shouldn't be but it is.

*You are required to make an oath that you have sufficient money to support yourself and family.*
You can be required to prove this, but in practice most Camras make no mention of this, but some Camras do make a big thing about it, the min money is Portugals amount for basic income support,.

*You have adequate medical cover*
You should register with the Portuguese Health Service, which is sufficient, you do not require additional private insurance

Documents required
Passport, Astestado (signed and sealed letter stating where you live) from your local Junta, Portuguese NHS patient number.

No you can't pop over border every 3 months, somewhere along the line you get caught out. For example if you are no longer a UK Resident i.e you live outside the UK for 6 months then you are NOT entitled to use your UK EHIC card in the EU and if caught it is considered fraud and you could be required to repay for any treatment.


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## travelling-man (Jun 17, 2011)

OK, thanks.

So what is the "minimum amount for basic income support" and will that vary if I own my own house outright?

My next problem is my wife & I (both UK passport holders etc) have been living in South Africa on 'own business visas' as opposed to having residency and we don't even know what a EHIC card is, let alone have one........ Our NI payments are a bit behind but it's not a problem for us to bring it up to date.

Would we face any other hurdles?

Next question is which Camaras tend to be easier than others? - We mostly work from home, so are not tied to any particular area etc.


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## canoeman (Mar 3, 2011)

If you don't want to complicate life then you enter as EU Citizens by right of your UK passports.
I would suggest you bring your NI up to date, as your both not of retirement age? then you will have a slightly different set of criteria because you will more than likely be required to register with the Portuguese equivalent of NI, which you should get 2 odd years funded by UK.

You need to do some serious research on being "self employed" in Portugal and/or about earning your income abroad? 

Which Camra, I know Taviras an awkward one, others??

EHIC card European Health Insurance issued to a national of a EU country for medical treatment equivalent to the National of EU country they are visiting, a lot of health areas here expect this as part of process of registering with Health Service. So e.g. a UK resident can get treatment at the same level and cost as a Portuguese citizen, without requiring additional insurance.

Two sites that might help, EU for overview and SEF for Portugal
EU - Help and advice on your life, work and travel in the EU - Your Europe

http://www.sef.pt/portal/V10/EN/asp...rker-pensioner/rights-conditions/index_en.htm


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## travelling-man (Jun 17, 2011)

We're both mid 50s so not retired as such. 

We earn our pennies from websites & book sales etc. So income isn't derived from Portugal as such. We would reside there and get income payments (mostly) from the UK & US....... How do you think that would affect us as far as the Portuguese authorities are concerned?


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## canoeman (Mar 3, 2011)

If you are a Portuguese resident then you are required to file a yearly tax return, part of that tax return is a requirement to declare worldwide income.
If you've paid tax on income say in UK or USA then providing Portugal has a tax treaty with those countries (which they do) then any tax paid is allowed against any possible Portuguese tax liability.

You might need any tax returns from UK, SA? if your required to prove income when registering residence.

If your asking whether you should declare it, then that's a personal choice, but in this computer age and sharing of information between tax authorities then it's risky not too.


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## travelling-man (Jun 17, 2011)

Thanks. I don't have any problem at all with declaring income....... as I said, we manage to pay the bills but we're not at all wealthy.

Does anyone know what figure of income we have to actually prove to be allowed to stay? - Internet searches tell me everything from E300 a month to E3500 a month.

Or is it just a matter of swearing an affidavit?


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## canoeman (Mar 3, 2011)

Presumably just under min wage which for 2011 is €485 per month as payments are for 14 months average is €565 per month. I'm not sure how income support works in Portugal bit this should be min reguired.

It should be a matter of just stating you would not be independent, bit you can be asked to prove it and criteria are slightly different between being retired and working.


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## travelling-man (Jun 17, 2011)

So how different and is that per person or per couple etc?


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## canoeman (Mar 3, 2011)

As far as I know the Registration procedure is the same for all, however if your asked to prove income then again I believe showing proof of at least min. wage is sufficient.

It's when you've registered that you need to research how you would be employed and how and what NI payments you would need to make. Everyone's situation is different so it's very difficult to comment directly on your situation. as an example you could be Resident and live in Portugal but work in say France and pay taxes and Social security on salary there, you then only need to declare salary, taxes and NI paid on your Portuguese return, royalties may be an entirely different thing, which is why it requires researching. There's been a recent post on tax incentives to attract people to Portugal so maybe check that out.


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## travelling-man (Jun 17, 2011)

Thanks... Our income obviously varies from month to month but It looks like our best course of action would be to go in on our UK passports and then use an accountant to sort the financial stuff out but we'd have done that anyway.


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## canoeman (Mar 3, 2011)

Yes that's the sensible course of action, but I would suggest getting in contact with an accountant before moving, _self employment_ might be very different to anything you've experienced.
It could be beneficial to have a UK company that receives income etc and pays you, for example.


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## travelling-man (Jun 17, 2011)

OK. Thanks.


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## -mia- (Dec 23, 2009)

If you live and work in Portugal you should be paying taxes in Portugal. Setting yourself up as self employed is not that difficult. As you say, get an accountant and translator when you get †here and they should be able to help you. This will also get you registered in the system for health care. 

Good luck!


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## canoeman (Mar 3, 2011)

Although I agree in general you should pay taxes etc where you live, it is not necessarily the easiest or best solution for someone who derives there income from elsewhere.

On a basic level if I for example lived in Portugal but worked in UK then generally as per EU guidelines I would pay tax and NI contributions in UK and declare earnings in Portugal.

Being self employed in Portugal is not that simple or _maybe not the best or correct_ way for t-m to declare earnings.

My personal opinion is that something as important as this needs research and planning before arriving not after when it might be too late to take advantage of any tax breaks etc or even do things correctly.


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## robc (Jul 17, 2008)

"My personal opinion is that something as important as this needs research and planning before arriving not after when it might be too late to take advantage of any tax breaks etc or even do things correctly."

I agree canoeman..........it is far easier to sort out from a distance pre event that on the doorstep post event.


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## -mia- (Dec 23, 2009)

canoeman said:


> Although I agree in general you should pay taxes etc where you live, it is not necessarily the easiest or best solution for someone who derives there income from elsewhere.
> 
> On a basic level if I for example lived in Portugal but worked in UK then generally as per EU guidelines I would pay tax and NI contributions in UK and declare earnings in Portugal.
> 
> ...


Of course this should be researched as to what is best for the OP. Neither of us can say what that is. 

IMO, if you are living in and working in Portugal you should be paying taxes in Portugal as it is their services you are using. It is not the roads, police, firefighters, infrastructure, etc of the UK that are being used, particularly in the case of the OP who hasn't even been a resident in the UK for a while and it's not like they have been making contributions there all along. 

But whatever, as we all agree the OP needs to make up their own mind after doing their research, I'll just encourage them to look into how to set yourself up as self employed as it is in fact not that difficult especially if you get professional assistance including a translator, and I'll leave it at that. 

Good luck TravellingMan & TMWife with your move.


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## canoeman (Mar 3, 2011)

Think your missing point, EU guidelines on taxation and Social Security contributions for Migrant or cross border workers i.e live in one EU country but work in another, say that tax and Social Security should be paid in the country they work, not live, those countries would ultimately be responsible for future pensions etc.

Portugal is presently offering tax incentives to attract people to live in Portugal but have a 10 year+ free tax window if they qualify, and has paid UK NI and can also pay arrears, this should if they qualify also get up to 21/2 years funding into the Portuguese NI scheme.

As OP earns majority of income from royalties externally to Portugal then it would be far better to make beneficial arrangements on the most tax efficient way to earn that income.
Self employment in Portugal I don't think is the correct or efficient way to declare these earnings.


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## notlongnow (May 21, 2009)

One little tip.....when we were waiting for an NI / Social Security decision, HMRC were taking nearly 3 months to open their letters (earlier this year).....if they then reply to you and you want to go back to them....yep.....you wait another 3 months, and although you can speak to them on the phone, you can only dispute a ruling in writing.

As others have said, try to get it sorted before you even leave, I wish we had!


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## travelling-man (Jun 17, 2011)

Thank you all for your useful advice and we're now looking for an accountant to consult!

Any recommendations would be gratefully received just as long as it's not Deloitte and Touche who I've learned from bitter experience are the most useless bunch of tozzers on the entire planet!


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## notlongnow (May 21, 2009)

Hi TM,

Not sure I can put the link to the lady we use on the forum, but send me a PM if you want the details.
B


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