# Maid Services



## Guest

My current maid is taking leave for a few weeks. Is it legal / possible to get a full time maid for me to work for only a few weeks. 

I have contacted my agency by am waiting for a reply. Would be great if some one could help me.


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## sling

I guess this is an American reaction, but can't you live without a maid for a few weeks?

My real question is whether there are maid services in Singapore like the ones we have in the US. It is very, very unusual to have a full or even part time maid. People who have help usually have someone come in and clean once a week, or even every other week. There are companies that provide people to clean, sometimes a whole group comes in and whisks through your place in a few hours. The cleaners are bonded and insured.

If such services are available, would that get you through?


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## Lenochka

not sure if Dubai contacts really help a lot on the Singapore Forum


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## simonsays

you can engage part time maids, who must be singaporeans, or PRs, and not those who are under maid pass for other employers.

Alternate, there are various 'maid service' companies, who engage mainland girls on legal work permit and legally do house work .. 

If you need a full time maid - then, my first option is the only option .. 

Cheers


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## JWilliamson

Its all different in Asia than it was in Miami for me. Back in Miami i was living in a 4500 sq foot house and never had a maid but could have afforded one. Now i have been living in Hong Kong and Singapore for the past three years and people are in need of a maid for their 500 sq foot flat. Some have a maid living in the second bedroom. Still hard to believe. JW


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## simonsays

JWilliamson said:


> Its all different in Asia than it was in Miami for me. Back in Miami i was living in a 4500 sq foot house and never had a maid but could have afforded one. Now i have been living in Hong Kong and Singapore for the past three years and people are in need of a maid for their 500 sq foot flat. Some have a maid living in the second bedroom. Still hard to believe. JW


And some have the maid sleeping the hall and wonder why the maids are not happy working for 'locals' and prefer to work for expat employers ..  Duh ! the answer is obvious : Expat employer = likelihood of Condo = likelihood of Maid room (and privacy)


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## JWilliamson

What square foot we talking about? I havnt been to Thailand so the space can be different over there compared to Hong Kong. JW


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## simonsays

JW: What's that ?


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## Lenochka

Good morning ecureilx,

JW - JWilliamson...the poster's nick on the forum 

sorry, couldn't resist...

have a nice day
lane:


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## LSJohnson

My family will be moving into Singapore next month and with 2 young kids in tow I reckon I would require the need of some part-time cleaners. Any recommendations or suggestions?


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## simonsays

There's many .. but .. part timers are technically against the law - unless you employ those from the reputed agencies and all .. and pay more .... so .. you got to get somebody from the Cold Storage notice boards ..  or you can ask any friends who can refer somebody !!


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## JWilliamson

Seems some what shady and wrong how they over work the foreign maids and many bosses (home owners) interfere with their (domestic helpers) personal lives like not being able to date anyone for 2 or 3 years. JW


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## simonsays

JW : A tongue in cheek question: do you allow your maid to date ??


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## JWilliamson

MMM If i was unable to clean for myself and cook what she does after 8 hrs of work is her life but i guess domestic workers dont have any free time. JW


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## simonsays

And Mr Jw - you don't live in Singapore do you ??   If I read your flag, you are in HK .. right ??


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## JWilliamson

Yes sir i am now in Hong Kong but when i was more south i spent time in Your place. I read the rules and regulations of hiring domestic workers in Singapore and Hong Kong and i spoke to many and heard how they live and work. I am originally from miami. JW


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## simonsays

well, if you had a maid here, and found that the law here is strict, for obvious reasons, and maids getting pregnant/getting sti/runaway/illegal part time work etc - you will sympathise with the employers .. life is not fair - but, when Singapore had a string of maids becoming 'ma'am' and throwing the ma'am out of the house - the Govt decided to act.

HK is more open, and is lesser controlled .. and the pay is higher .. (in Singapore, the govt discourages maids, and if you want a maid, pay the equivalent of a month's salary as levy every month .. )


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## JWilliamson

Well what im trying to say is that these maids should all be getting paid more, work less hrs and be able to choose to live on their own after work plus to date which is a human natural desire. JW


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## simonsays

JWilliamson said:


> Well what im trying to say is that these maids should all be getting paid more, work less hrs and be able to choose to live on their own after work plus to date which is a human natural desire. JW


Well, I am not a slave driver, but .. nobody forced the maids to come to Singapore .. or anywhere .. as for the last one of "live on their own after work plus to date .. " well, as a Single guy, I too love it - but, when you are an employer - would you be happy to find your maid pregnant, and the Govt revokes the 5,000 $ bond, and then ban you from employing any maids ??

And I know of cases where maid caught infections and conveniently blamed the employer - only on police questioning did they admit it was their Bangladesh/Indian/Myanmar/Nepal BF .. 

Life isn't fair - but .. just like those guys who work in rigs - 3 weeks on - 1 week off - yah, not all of them like it - but, hey, compared to being jobless or in the case of maids, when they earn a decent living vs back home with nothing - no comments 

Over and out .. 

Cheers

S Am not one of those who condone the working conditions of anybody, but, hey, life isn't fair ..


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## JWilliamson

*pregnant?*



ecureilx said:


> Well, I am not a slave driver, but .. nobody forced the maids to come to Singapore .. or anywhere .. as for the last one of "live on their own after work plus to date .. " well, as a Single guy, I too love it - but, when you are an employer - would you be happy to find your maid pregnant, and the Govt revokes the 5,000 $ bond, and then ban you from employing any maids ??
> 
> And I know of cases where maid caught infections and conveniently blamed the employer - only on police questioning did they admit it was their Bangladesh/Indian/Myanmar/Nepal BF ..
> 
> Life isn't fair - but .. just like those guys who work in rigs - 3 weeks on - 1 week off - yah, not all of them like it - but, hey, compared to being jobless or in the case of maids, when they earn a decent living vs back home with nothing - no comments
> 
> Over and out ..
> 
> Cheers
> 
> S Am not one of those who condone the working conditions of anybody, but, hey, life isn't fair ..


You keep focusing on adults getting pregnant so what is the % of the domestic workers that are getting pregnant?


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## simonsays

JWilliamson said:


> You keep focusing on adults getting pregnant so what is the % of the domestic workers that are getting pregnant?


More than the percentage, the prospect of loosing your bond + banned from employing another maid till the current case is cleared is a nice threat to hang over your head - well, I am not siding with employers, but then again, there are always two sides to a coin - 

Not everybody is stupid to go and get themselves pregnant, and not everybody habitually wants an STD - but then again, though everybody says stealing is bad, why is there a law for it ?? 

Maybe I am a bit like a broken record, but I wonder if you are one of those who make friends at Wanchai   (that was in jest ..  )


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## JWilliamson

Hehe friends at Wanchai hehe good one. I guess it is easier there then at other parts of the city cause at that area there is no need of talk nor any chance of being rejected. JW


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## simonsays

And I am admitting shamelessly that I used to hang around the equivalent of Wanchai in Singapore, almost every Sunday and we start off bar hopping at 2 PM  - so - not, I am not a clean clothed monk


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## JWilliamson

Hehe i didnt have any idea if you were either way but i like making the good girls become a little bad then making the bad ones better and it costs less but involves a lot more talking and listening. JW


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## simonsays




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## JWilliamson

I am ok with all you have said and thanks for making it interesting reading. JW

P.S. say more


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## Judgeanduwillbejudged

ecureilx said:


> And some have the maid sleeping the hall and wonder why the maids are not happy working for 'locals' and prefer to work for expat employers ..  Duh ! the answer is obvious : Expat employer = likelihood of Condo = likelihood of Maid room (and privacy)




Not everyone are as privileged as some to be living in a condo(though I am) or have spare room for their maids...and the reason most ppl here have maid is because both parties need to bring in the "dough" if u get it. Guess it takes one with brains to think before judging others..just my 2 cents. no offence.


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## Judgeanduwillbejudged

Judgeanduwillbejudged said:


> Not everyone are as priviledged as some to be living in a condo(though I am) or have spare room for their maids...and the reason most ppl here have maid is because both parties need to bring in the "dough" if u get it. Guess it takes one with brains to think before judging others..just my 2 cents. no offence.


Opps, typo error privileged, I mean. Cheers


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## JWilliamson

*Maids*



Judgeanduwillbejudged said:


> Not everyone are as privileged as some to be living in a condo(though I am) or have spare room for their maids...and the reason most ppl here have maid is because both parties need to bring in the "dough" if u get it. Guess it takes one with brains to think before judging others..just my 2 cents. no offence.


Are you talking about two people who have to both work in order to stay at the standard of living they are comfortable supporting and they have children? If so, the i totally agree. But if both have to work and do not have kids they could easily spend 45 mins every 3 days cleaning a closet size condo. In USA and England i have known many who had a big house between 2,500 to 5,000 square feet with 5 bed rooms and 5 bathrooms and some both went to work and they didnt have a need to pay someone to tidy their place. JW


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## simonsays

Judgeanduwillbejudged said:


> Guess it takes one with brains to think before judging others..just my 2 cents. no offence.


I ain't judging nobody, just airing the problems maid face, when they work for those who are cutting it tight when budgetting for maids .. and especially of late, atleast in this little red dot, a lot of noise is emanating about maids seeking only expat employers and asking for transfer etc. etc.

Cheers


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## Judgeanduwillbejudged

I guess it really is up to one's preference, be it needs or wants. Guess for d countries u mentioned, if maids are easily available, it might be a different scenario altogether.  
Yeah, I'm stating the earlier thread based on average household environment over here. I have a child and have had the privilege of being a stay home mum for 10 years, only working part-time recently(having an employer that is very flexible, allowing me to plan my days according to my husband's schedule).for that reason, I did not need a helper then. Not many are as fortunate to find jobs like that. 
I am now changing to a full-time job and that requires me to employ a helper too for my daughter's sake. 
If one does not have kid(s) to think about, naturally a helper is not required. Saying this, employing help also gives job to another who is in need. Mind u, I do not condone those who ill treat their helper, but I do not think employers need to treat their helper as part of the family. Does our employer treat us as part of their family? 
So long as we respect each other. My personal opinion is that many employers out there are trying to outdo each other in terms of how well they treat their helpers, comparing and boasting online and to friends, that's why there are so many problems now. 
My reply is not to offend anyone out there. I do understand that we each have our own opinion. Thanks for all the replies.  have a great week. Cheers.


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## JWilliamson

*Maids and needs*



Judgeanduwillbejudged said:


> I guess it really is up to one's preference, be it needs or wants. Guess for d countries u mentioned, if maids are easily available, it might be a different scenario altogether.
> Yeah, I'm stating the earlier thread based on average household environment over here. I have a child and have had the privilege of being a stay home mum for 10 years, only working part-time recently(having an employer that is very flexible, allowing me to plan my days according to my husband's schedule).for that reason, I did not need a helper then. Not many are as fortunate to find jobs like that.
> I am now changing to a full-time job and that requires me to employ a helper too for my daughter's sake.
> If one does not have kid(s) to think about, naturally a helper is not required. Saying this, employing help also gives job to another who is in need. Mind u, I do not condone those who ill treat their helper, but I do not think employers need to treat their helper as part of the family. Does our employer treat us as part of their family?
> So long as we respect each other. My personal opinion is that many employers out there are trying to outdo each other in terms of how well they treat their helpers, comparing and boasting online and to friends, that's why there are so many problems now.
> My reply is not to offend anyone out there. I do understand that we each have our own opinion. Thanks for all the replies.  have a great week. Cheers.


I agree with you. JW


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## paulsimon

i would like to know if we could bring a nanny here in Singapore? Our nanny works for us for 3 years now.


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## simonsays

paulsimon said:


> i would like to know if we could bring a nanny here in Singapore? Our nanny works for us for 3 years now.


Which country is your maid from ?

Well, MOM has the countries which are on the allowed list .. and you can do the paperwork yourself, and save the maid some salary which goes towards the agency fee, or ... engage an agency

Essentially, you need to get the maid through the basic program, and if you are first time maid employer in Singapore, you need to take a small test about the roles and responsibilities of employers, when it comes to maids.

Cheers


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## paulsimon

ecureilx said:


> Which country is your maid from ?
> 
> Well, MOM has the countries which are on the allowed list .. and you can do the paperwork yourself, and save the maid some salary which goes towards the agency fee, or ... engage an agency
> 
> Essentially, you need to get the maid through the basic program, and if you are first time maid employer in Singapore, you need to take a small test about the roles and responsibilities of employers, when it comes to maids.
> 
> Cheers


Oh thats a lot of work. Im from Australia, and the nanny comes from Philippines.


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## simonsays

paulsimon said:


> Oh thats a lot of work. Im from Australia, and the nanny comes from Philippines.


No such thing as a lot of work .. by law, the employer must take the test for employers roles ..

As for the rest, you can engage an agency, if you are not keen to go through the paperwork and all yourself .. they will do the filing, collection, and the related work ..


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## JWilliamson

Can a maid live at her own apartment if she chooses to?? JW


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## simonsays

JWilliamson said:


> Can a maid live at her own apartment if she chooses to? Also while she is working can a maid have a boyfriend? JW


JW: Work Permit (Foreign Domestic Worker) - Before you apply - Ministry of Manpower

As for your second question - sacrebleu - what are you trying to prove with that ?? 

sorry - I am not as smart as you are ... ..


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## JWilliamson

Maids can not or can have a boyfriend? Maids are adults right grown women? What are the work week hours for workers in Singapore? In USA it is 35 to 40 hrs and anything above that is double time. In Hong Kong it is a little more. JW


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## simonsays

errr .. not sure if you are asking me - but .. you can ask MOM  

And since you are expounding human rights (I believe that - going by your past posting - that you are one of those who want to keep maids as GF  ) you should call the MOM Hotline and demand an answer .. 

MOM Contact Info : FYI - Contact Information - Ministry of Manpower


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## JWilliamson

I am wondering what are the common practice in Singapore in dealing with domestic workers such as hours and what they do after work. JW


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## paulsimon

maids should allow to have a relationship. they're also humans.


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## JWilliamson

*true*



paulsimon said:


> maids should allow to have a relationship. they're also humans.


That is what i am trying to say. Adults should be treated as a adult. Date after hours which is for how many Hours per day? JW


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## paulsimon

JWilliamson said:


> That is what i am trying to say. Adults should be treated as a adult. Date after hours which is for how many Hours per day? JW


I'm not really sure about the hours. But i think they can date during day off only which is Sunday . :confused2:


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## JWilliamson

*ooo*



paulsimon said:


> I'm not really sure about the hours. But i think they can date during day off only which is Sunday . :confused2:


This seems to me they do not have an off hour during the week? Also do you mean every sunday they have off? JW


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## paulsimon

JWilliamson said:


> This seems to me they do not have an off hour during the week? Also do you mean every sunday they have off? JW


Yes only Sunday is the day off for the maids which they are free to go out.


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## simonsays

JWilliamson said:


> I am not in need of a maid but, if i employed one i would think it would be best that i dont have a intimate relationship with her. I do believe that a grown woman can have a relationship just as I believe any office employee has the right to date. Maybe a pet owner can prevent their pet from having sex and many give a operation to remove the sexual organs of their animal but i do not think nor believe that is ok for humans. JW


Not sure what you guys are on .. but .. hey, everybody is entitled to your own opinion ..  

As for the comment about pets and comparing them with maids - a pet owner doesn't get penalised when the pet gets into a mess (other than the dogs that bite .. ) and you have a 5,000 $ bond PLUS possibility of other complications .. plus the employer held responsible .. 

JW: I fervently hope that you get a maid, and let her have a bf, and then come and preach the rights  (that is tongue in cheek - not to be offensive .. ) and .. 

Paulsimon: If you gonna get a maid here to Singapore, the concerns raised by JW are all addresses as part of the roles and responsibilities of an employer .. and yes, there is no law that says the maid can't have a bf, cant' screw around, can't catch a few STDs, and can't get into Love quarrels leading to attempted suicides etc. etc.. (I know JW will barge in asking for statistics .. ) but, the employer is responsible from the moment the maid signs up till she departs the country .. 

(PS: JW: I asked a British lady who too was doing a lot of chest thumping about the need for maids to have a bf/lover/sex partner - and I asked if she was happy about breaking up a maids family if she was married back home - the lady in question could only smile and says "well, I just want her to be happy when she is working for me - rest, if he family breaks up, her bf poisons her mind to leave her family, if she gets pregnant etc ... etc.. .- not her concern .. that speaks a lot .. 

Cheers guys .. have a great day ..


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## simonsays

paulsimon said:


> Yes only Sunday is the day off for the maids which they are free to go out.


Probably JW should employ a secretary, to double as caretaker, and pay a higher salary so the permit is Work Pass and is not under the stringent rules set by MOM .. so the work is from 9 to 6 ... oh, hang on. He is somebody who is happy screwing other people's maid but .. dare not let him being at the receiving end of seeing his maid being screwed by others 

PS: Pardon my coarse language - couldn't think of better wording ..


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## JWilliamson

*mmm very entertaining you are*



ecureilx said:


> Not sure what you guys are on .. but .. hey, everybody is entitled to your own opinion ..
> 
> As for the comment about pets and comparing them with maids - a pet owner doesn't get penalised when the pet gets into a mess (other than the dogs that bite .. ) and you have a 5,000 $ bond PLUS possibility of other complications .. plus the employer held responsible ..
> 
> JW: I fervently hope that you get a maid, and let her have a bf, and then come and preach the rights  (that is tongue in cheek - not to be offensive .. ) and ..
> 
> Paulsimon: If you gonna get a maid here to Singapore, the concerns raised by JW are all addresses as part of the roles and responsibilities of an employer .. and yes, there is no law that says the maid can't have a bf, cant' screw around, can't catch a few STDs, and can't get into Love quarrels leading to attempted suicides etc. etc.. (I know JW will barge in asking for statistics .. ) but, the employer is responsible from the moment the maid signs up till she departs the country ..
> 
> (PS: JW: I asked a British lady who too was doing a lot of chest thumping about the need for maids to have a bf/lover/sex partner - and I asked if she was happy about breaking up a maids family if she was married back home - the lady in question could only smile and says "well, I just want her to be happy when she is working for me - rest, if he family breaks up, her bf poisons her mind to leave her family, if she gets pregnant etc ... etc.. .- not her concern .. that speaks a lot ..
> 
> Cheers guys .. have a great day ..


I do not see any problem with a grown woman dating after she finished her work. If i was messy or very lazy i would hire a maid and pay her a decent wage but im either very clean or i enjoy living in a mess. JW


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## simonsays

JWilliamson said:


> I do not see any problem with a grown woman dating after she finished her work. If i was messy or very lazy i would hire a maid and pay her a decent wage but im either very clean or i enjoy living in a mess. JW


You just didnt' answer the last part of my message .. 

Anyway, I guess you are onto some strong stuff ... living in HK

Have fun ..


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## JWilliamson

Hahaha, E, do you have a maid? JW (it is a conversation and i am not taking anything personal)


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## JWilliamson

*Maid that is married back home?*



ecureilx said:


> You just didnt' answer the last part of my message ..
> 
> Anyway, I guess you are onto some strong stuff ... living in HK
> 
> Have fun ..


If she is married that alone would be hard on anyone to move to another country and maybe leave a child and husband too and raise another child and be all by herself to work 6 days or more a week. I being the employer (which i am not) will not be pushing the maid to cheat and it is not my business to control this adult. But if i cared i would give her more time to visit her family and not over work her more than 8 hrs of work a day. JW


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## simonsays

JWilliamson said:


> Hahaha, E, do you have a maid? JW (it is a conversation and i am not taking anything personal)


I had a three maids, each running their two year contract, not bothered about extra carricular activities, and on their off day, spending their time at the Bayanihan Center and schools to learn stuff (for which I was happy to pay the tution fees) and while I was almost away for atleast one week every month, I had serious peace of mind and trust .. 

The next one that came along taught me a lot of valuable lessons ... including the need to hold the passport, and also while not encroaching on her privacy, atleast keep her occupied on weekends, by taking her along when I am visiting friends in Malaysia, and by offering extra pay for her to do some work on off day, giving annual paid vacation back to her country instead of the standard end of contract thing, and instead of going to bars and getting drunk and getting picked up and getting into cat fights / engaging in part time businesses (which are totally against the law .. ) and twice, bailing out having been caught in police raids in sleezy bars .. once disappeared for few days to Malaysia .. and another time, found a few worker guys + plus a few girls having a big party in my apartment .. my apartment was totally thrashed .. etc. etc ... 

And when I went to Ministry of Manpower, I was reminded that as her sponsor, I am equivalent to her guardian and I am 100% responsible for her till she flies away .. and I had to forefeight the bond of 5,0000 S$ before MOM arranges to repatriate her .. and when I gave the news to the maid that her contract is being terminated, she threatened to sue me .. and insisted that I pay for a flight ticket that she will buy (J Class ?? Damn - she was asking me to fork out 3,000 $ for SIN-DVO which she said is the only flight she will fly .... ) .. I smiled and reminded her that there was six months of her contract left, and I was going to pay her the six months salary now, and she flies off the next day, instead of the leeway I gave for the previous maids - allowing them to spend two weeks on their own to scout for other employers .. and I did pack her off .. 

Now - I am happy living in a Serviced Apartment .. and not gonna tempt my fate with full time maids, unless I found one like the previous 3 ..

Am sure none of the above will make sense to you, as you are only keen to ensure the maids are allowed to have Boyfriends, as possibly you are one of the Sunday lovers  

Cheers and no offense to nobody ..


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## JWilliamson

*nice*



ecureilx said:


> I had a three maids, each running their two year contract, not bothered about extra carricular activities, and on their off day, spending their time at the Bayanihan Center and schools to learn stuff (for which I was happy to pay the tution fees) and while I was almost away for atleast one week every month, I had serious peace of mind and trust ..
> 
> The next one that came along taught me a lot of valuable lessons ... including the need to hold the passport, and also while not encroaching on her privacy, atleast keep her occupied on weekends, by taking her along when I am visiting friends in Malaysia, and by offering extra pay for her to do some work on off day, giving annual paid vacation back to her country instead of the standard end of contract thing, and instead of going to bars and getting drunk and getting picked up and getting into cat fights / engaging in part time businesses (which are totally against the law .. ) and twice, bailing out having been caught in police raids in sleezy bars .. once disappeared for few days to Malaysia .. and another time, found a few worker guys + plus a few girls having a big party in my apartment .. my apartment was totally thrashed .. etc. etc ...
> 
> And when I went to Ministry of Manpower, I was reminded that as her sponsor, I am equivalent to her guardian and I am 100% responsible for her till she flies away .. and I had to forefeight the bond of 5,0000 S$ before MOM arranges to repatriate her .. and when I gave the news to the maid that her contract is being terminated, she threatened to sue me .. and insisted that I pay for a flight ticket that she will buy (J Class ?? Damn - she was asking me to fork out 3,000 $ for SIN-DVO which she said is the only flight she will fly .... ) .. I smiled and reminded her that there was six months of her contract left, and I was going to pay her the six months salary now, and she flies off the next day, instead of the leeway I gave for the previous maids - allowing them to spend two weeks on their own to scout for other employers .. and I did pack her off ..
> 
> Now - I am happy living in a Serviced Apartment .. and not gonna tempt my fate with full time maids, unless I found one like the previous 3 ..
> 
> Am sure none of the above will make sense to you, as you are only keen to ensure the maids are allowed to have Boyfriends, as possibly you are one of the Sunday lovers
> 
> Cheers and no offense to nobody ..


You are nice and had the luxury of not having to do much at home. JW


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## simonsays

JWilliamson said:


> You are nice and had the luxury of not having to do much at home. JW


And no kindness goes unpunished eh ???


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## simonsays




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## Judgeanduwillbejudged

JWilliamson said:


> I am not in need of a maid but, if i employed one i would think it would be best that i dont have a intimate relationship with her. I do believe that a grown woman can have a relationship just as I believe any office employee has the right to date. Maybe a pet owner can prevent their pet from having sex and many give a operation to remove the sexual organs of their animal but i do not think nor believe that is ok for humans. JW


Hi JW, if I am not wrong, here in Singapore, if the helper gets pregnant under one's employment, there will be penalty for it.They are under our care and employment. Guess when the helper gets pregnant, it is also not safe for her to work as domestic help. As in some airlines, when female employees get pregnant, they would have to resign for their own safety purpose, and it would not look too good to see a pregnant lady serving pax.  
I do not think it is nice of the helper to have boyfriend, reason being they live in our home with us.(during employment period) If they live in their own place then I think they are entitled to do as they please. it would be invading of privacy for the employers as some helpers will discreetly bring their mates home(not their home mind u). 
I must say, it is about respect and not crossing the line. Every employment has their own set of rules to follow. It is highlighted to them before they agree. Hope this helps. Cheers.


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## simonsays

Judgeanduwillbejudged said:


> Hi JW, if I am not wrong, here in Singapore, if the helper gets pregnant under one's employment, there will be penalty for it.They are under our care and employment.


Gosh - it is the law, and hence the reason for maids to be subject to half yearly pregnancy tests .. but, I am sure JW will chime in asking for statistics .. 

I forgot to add - the Singapore law forbids maid permit holders from marrying Singaporeans / Residents, if they plan to apply for Residency / Citizenship here ..


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## Judgeanduwillbejudged

ecureilx said:


> Gosh - it is the law, and hence the reason for maids to be subject to half yearly pregnancy tests .. but, I am sure JW will chime in asking for statistics ..
> 
> I forgot to add - the Singapore law forbids maid permit holders from marrying Singaporeans / Residents, if they plan to apply for Residency / Citizenship here ..


Thanks E, that info will b useful for me.


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## JWilliamson

The law? Well in USA there were many laws preventing certain people their rights. Lucky for them and the human race those laws became seen as wrong. So out of respect for the employer a adult should not be human while making the most lowest income? As of not working while pregnant well when my wife was pregnant she worked til the day she gave birth. She is a doctor and choose to work and everything went well. JW


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## JWilliamson

What if the employer hand fed the employee the pill every morning would that be ok? JW


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## paulsimon

Judgeanduwillbejudged said:


> Hi JW, if I am not wrong, here in Singapore, if the helper gets pregnant under one's employment, there will be penalty for it.They are under our care and employment. Guess when the helper gets pregnant, it is also not safe for her to work as domestic help. As in some airlines, when female employees get pregnant, they would have to resign for their own safety purpose, and it would not look too good to see a pregnant lady serving pax.
> I do not think it is nice of the helper to have boyfriend, reason being they live in our home with us.(during employment period) If they live in their own place then I think they are entitled to do as they please. it would be invading of privacy for the employers as some helpers will discreetly bring their mates home(not their home mind u).
> I must say, it is about respect and not crossing the line. Every employment has their own set of rules to follow. It is highlighted to them before they agree. Hope this helps. Cheers.


its really up to you if you and your maid will have an agreement about relationship matters. 
Never bring your partner at home. Never see your partner except day off. :clap2: - solved


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## simonsays

JWilliamson said:


> The law? Well in USA there were many laws preventing certain people their rights. Lucky for them and the human race those laws became seen as wrong. So out of respect for the employer a adult should not be human while making the most lowest income? As of not working while pregnant well when my wife was pregnant she worked til the day she gave birth. She is a doctor and choose to work and everything went well. JW


Well, I am not sure what you are smoking, but that seems to be some strong stuff .. just let me remind you - such law for pregnancy is only for Maid pass holders - not for everybody on work pass here .. If your wife got a work pass here, she will be on the upper category pass which enforces no such rules .. 

If the Singapore government felt - based on past trends, that maids need stricter laws - so be it .. and I understand that was based on past cases where more than a few maid got pregnant, and then blamed the employer .. or claimed it was 'immaculate conception' and then when sh** hits the ceiling, go on a sympathy show to extract money from all and sundry to take care of the child + the original family back home + loss of income due to being banned from working here .. 

If your wife was a doctor, she is not under the same law as maids - there is a clear distinction .. 

As for the next question about employer feeding pills - ask your wife what is the negative effect of pills .. no, I aint' no doctor, but know enough that pills, while making things 'safe' also go on to damage a lot of things .. and - heck, forgot - does pills to STIs ??

And there are enough STIs that can be passed by skin contact, so if your maid was busy with a lot of construction worker Boyfriends, and caught something, and then rubbed your child's eye and your child has the G disease .. pray, maybe you would be happy .. 

And you should cut down on whatever you are smoking 

PS: By the way, girls on Student pass too are subject to the regular and random pregnancy tests - maybe living in HK, you would know why ..


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## JWilliamson

The Pill is safer than eating MacDonalds. Also women can use a IUD device that can stay inside for 3 years which my wife has been using. Also I do not believe a doctor should have more freedom than any other position. Haha I am not smoking nor drinking, I am just a thinking. JW


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## simonsays

Is that so ?? Pills are safe ?? Hmmm .. I am starting to wonder about your maturity ..  Pills with no side effects are yet to to be invented .. go ask your wife .. if she is a doctor ..  

Thinking loudly, but may not be appropriate, but let me ask this silly question - AGAIN: WHO ARE YOU TO FEED PILLS TO SOMEBODY ELSE'S WIFE / MOTHER AND ENCOURAGE HER TO BE PROMISCUOUS ?? 

Maybe that didn't come off in a nice way, but .. if you ever got yourself out of the fancy kings' throne, you will know that 90% of maid are mothers, who are forced to step out of their country to make a living, as not always due to their lazy husband, but mostly back home, they can't get less than even half of what they can earn as maid .. 

And you are doing a dandy job not just asking for basic human rights, but I got a mighty feeling you are smothering them enough to force them to seek sexual release .. (or is that so ?? )

Cheers mate - over and out ..


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## JWilliamson

Yo, you assume a lot. First i never said there are no side effects but that there are no more than eating junk food. Another thing if she is married then it is up to her if she wants to be committed to her man in another country while he is left to take care of her child if she has one. Adults will do what adults do which is to be human and if you and other bosses wants to control her as you say the law gives you that right then if you can offer her a way not to get pregnant that can solve your worries of money. JW


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## JWilliamson

I am concerned of their rights to be human and be treated equally as the real income earners in the countries they are working in. It is not about me having sex with them. I am totally satisfied with my sexual activities and have no time for anymore which is exactly where i like it to be. JW


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## dyz

**



JWilliamson said:


> I am concerned of their rights to be human and be treated equally as the real income earners in the countries they are working in. It is not about me having sex with them. I am totally satisfied with my sexual activities and have no time for anymore which is exactly where i like it to be. JW


Hi JW,

I read with great interest your exchange with Singaporeans about the treatment of maids. The responses from Singaporeans were greatly disappointing. 

Did you know that maids are not covered by the Employment Act in Singapore? There are no unions or legislative/regulatory framework to afford these women protection. There is no minimum wage policy and there is nothing to regulate her pay, working hours, rest days and whether she gets public holidays off. 

You can make your maid work 16 hours everyday with no day off, if you wish. An average day for a maid in a home with school-going children will begin at 5.30am or 6am and her day will end after everyone else's has, so approximately 10pm or so. To top this off, she may not even get a day's respite from work. On the standard contract between employer and maid, there is an option to give the maid one to four days off. God forbid, a maid takes more than 4 days off!

A social or love life is not encouraged for maids in Singapore. Employers discourage/ prevent this under the guise of not wanting to lose their security bond of $5,000.00. Out of fear, they deny a woman days off, privacy, control the use of her mobile phone, limit her contact with people outside the house, etc. There's also the fear she will bring home her lover. For $5,000, the maid is prevented from the rights the rest of us enjoy and exercise. $5,000 is the price of a maid's freedom. 

In Singapore, maids effectively sell their souls to their employers for pittance sums as little as $220 (eg. Sri Lankan maids). Most of the maids from subcontinent regions receive 0 to 2 days off per month and no public holidays off. They receive under $300/ month in salary.

In terms of whether to treat a maid like family or not, some Singaporeans draw the comparison between a maid and office workers. The crucial difference to bear in mind is that unlike an office worker, a maid lives where she works. 

In Singapore, this has become the way of life. It's normal. They completely justify it and get terribly defensive if you even suggest they are exploitative. 

Hand to heart, can any Singaporean say paying a maid under $0.70 - $0.90 an hour is NOT exploitative? What about not giving sufficient rest days to maids when she works 10 to 16 hour days?

When will Singaporeans be less self-serving and more compassionate?


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## JWilliamson

*Maids*



dyz said:


> Hi JW,
> 
> I read with great interest your exchange with Singaporeans about the treatment of maids. The responses from Singaporeans were greatly disappointing.
> 
> Did you know that maids are not covered by the Employment Act in Singapore? There are no unions or legislative/regulatory framework to afford these women protection. There is no minimum wage policy and there is nothing to regulate her pay, working hours, rest days and whether she gets public holidays off.
> 
> You can make your maid work 16 hours everyday with no day off, if you wish. An average day for a maid in a home with school-going children will begin at 5.30am or 6am and her day will end after everyone else's has, so approximately 10pm or so. To top this off, she may not even get a day's respite from work. On the standard contract between employer and maid, there is an option to give the maid one to four days off. God forbid, a maid takes more than 4 days off!
> 
> A social or love life is not encouraged for maids in Singapore. Employers discourage/ prevent this under the guise of not wanting to lose their security bond of $5,000.00. Out of fear, they deny a woman days off, privacy, control the use of her mobile phone, limit her contact with people outside the house, etc. There's also the fear she will bring home her lover. For $5,000, the maid is prevented from the rights the rest of us enjoy and exercise. $5,000 is the price of a maid's freedom.
> 
> In Singapore, maids effectively sell their souls to their employers for pittance sums as little as $220 (eg. Sri Lankan maids). Most of the maids from subcontinent regions receive 0 to 2 days off per month and no public holidays off. They receive under $300/ month in salary.
> 
> In terms of whether to treat a maid like family or not, some Singaporeans draw the comparison between a maid and office workers. The crucial difference to bear in mind is that unlike an office worker, a maid lives where she works.
> 
> In Singapore, this has become the way of life. It's normal. They completely justify it and get terribly defensive if you even suggest they are exploitative.
> 
> Hand to heart, can any Singaporean say paying a maid under $0.70 - $0.90 an hour is NOT exploitative? What about not giving sufficient rest days to maids when she works 10 to 16 hour days?
> 
> When will Singaporeans be less self-serving and more compassionate?


Hello there, well I felt like I was the only one who noticed the inequalities. I have seen better treatment of maids in South America where they can live in their own place or stay in the employers house and the maids can bring their children to stay with them. The Hours of work for maids are much less than in Asia. In South America the maids will have the after noons off and every weekend off and the owners/bosses dont take the maids like a pet outside and the owners push their own babies around town. In USA even the wealthy do not have maids and many of the wealthy are living in 5,00 to 7,000 sq ft homes. This is mostly due to the minimum wage in USA where you have to pay maids equal to the regular employee and they will work set hours. When I was living in USA and me and my wife was making over 200,000 a year we never had a thought to get outside help because we were able to clean the house and raise our kids. What you mention about Singapore is happening in many other countries in Asia. JW


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## simonsays

to JW and dyz:  Three words : THIS IS ASIA !!!

So, instead of "SINGAPORE", replace it with "ASIA"

And .. cruel it may be, most of the employers are on tight budgets here .. and the strong emphasis for them to not have a maid will, on the other hand, make a filipina/indonesian + her family of 10 or 20 starve .. 

Yah, we live in a cruel world, but life has to go on .. 

If you wanna be fair, then you should stop the countries exporting maids ..

PS: Did anybody ever think how well the maids are treated in Middle-east ?? Singapore is a golden job, if you compare to those in Saudi, Kuwait, and the emirates .. where the maids don't even step out of the house, no phone calls .. and the nearest villa will be like 3 KM away .. and .. forget the abuse the maids are subject to ..


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## JWilliamson

True bad is bad and no matter how educated some people get they still have many reasons and excuses to do what they choose to do. JW


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## simonsays

sort of like somebody said .. some rape are worse than others ?? But in this case, yeah, it may hold true .. and not to be funny, when there are worse abusers of maid rights .. why pick on Singapore, is my humble question ??  

PS: even our northern neighbour had so much fun with maids, that one of their supplying country refused to send maids .. and .. as i say, like the saying "when the buying stops, the killing will stop" .. address the root cause of these girls going abroad as maids .. you may make the world a better place to live in ..


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## JWilliamson

I agree it is not one country, I was never thinking or pointing on one country.


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## dyz

ecureilx said:


> to JW and dyz:  Three words : THIS IS ASIA !!!
> 
> So, instead of "SINGAPORE", replace it with "ASIA"
> 
> And .. cruel it may be, most of the employers are on tight budgets here .. and the strong emphasis for them to not have a maid will, on the other hand, make a filipina/indonesian + her family of 10 or 20 starve ..
> 
> Yah, we live in a cruel world, but life has to go on ..
> 
> If you wanna be fair, then you should stop the countries exporting maids ..
> 
> PS: Did anybody ever think how well the maids are treated in Middle-east ?? Singapore is a golden job, if you compare to those in Saudi, Kuwait, and the emirates .. where the maids don't even step out of the house, no phone calls .. and the nearest villa will be like 3 KM away .. and .. forget the abuse the maids are subject to ..


ecureilx: Hand to heart, can you say paying a maid under $0.70 - $0.90 an hour is NOT exploitative? What about not giving sufficient rest days to maids when she works 10 to 16 hour days?

Singapore is regarded a first-world country. It stands apart from many Asian countries in many respects. I talk about Singapore because I am Singaporean and am concerned about what my people do to other human beings in my country. Let's not look at other nations and point out what they are doing worse at than us. Let's look at ourselves, our own backyards so that we can make a change for the better.

It is convenient to say: life is cruel, but life must go on. Where is the compassion? Do we allow the injustice to continue? Do we accept it? Do we defend the injustice?

You say that most of the employers are on tight budgets here. Sorry, is that the maid's problem? If you cannot afford to have one, don't. There are many families who live in bigger homes and have young children that still manage without live-in maids.

The dire circumstances of these maids are what drives them to accept these outrageous conditions of work and pay. The fact that we happily do nothing to make a positive change means we exploit their situation to reap as much benefit to serve our interests.

As a matter for your interest, JW, foreign construction workers are also very much exploited in Singapore.


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## simonsays

dyz : 

Yeah, life is not fair mate .. but .. then again, as I said, you choose between paying them that much or nothing ... and if I can afford to pay a maid 400$, that is all I can pay, and just because nice-talk people like you think they should be paid 4,000 $ - no sir, not in my budget, so I will terminate the maid's job so she can go back to her farming, and the seasonal cyclone destroying everything ... (and as I speak, there is one heading to Isabella and possibly wipe out the rice paddies there .. 

And, yes, go back to the ROOT OF THE PROBLEM, and INSIST THAT THE COUNTRIES EXPORTING MAIDS DEMAND MINIMUM SALARY -- DON"T ACCUSE AND ABUSE AND CRY WOLF at the employers .. 

We must fight for justice, and kill those who refuse to pay more .. we need to kill some people .. go ahead .. 

But, why not start your war-mongering and chest thumping in some other places .. like .. say .. Malaysia, or Saudi ?

Singapore is not encouraging maid abuse, like you paint .. sorry .. and nobody here is happy to hear of a maid slapped by an employer, and on the contrary, a lot of Singaporeans condems such behaviour .. Hell, I know atleast one employer, who's own neighbour refused to talk to him, because the neighbours heard the man yelling at his maid .. Singaporeans are not stone hearted .. 





PS: what exactly are you on ?? A troll or a stroll or some strongly rolled roll ??


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## JWilliamson

I think if the maids were paid fairly many will realize they can clean, cook and raise their own children as they do in the modern countries. JW


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## simonsays

JW You know I like to spar with you, once in a while  

If you compare with 'modern' countries .. well, such maids are not maids' per se, and they maids per se are not planning to pitch tents in their countries of work ..


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## JWilliamson

Well that is another issue. In USA many maids are from Mexico and other poor countries and they too want to stay in USA but they get paid the same amount as an American per hour. JW


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## simonsays

US ??  .. How does it go in Europe ?? 

or is US the defacto Pax Americana for everybody to follow ??? (that was in jest .. )

As I say, fix the source of the problem, and make maids stop going overseas by providing better jobs back home, so the market becomes a sellers market and then .. prices will go up .. 

Trying to fix a problem at the effect and not at the cause .. not done, in my eyes ..


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## JWilliamson

Agreed with you fix the problem but also fix what you can which is the people who hire the maid should pay the maids a amount they would want their own children to get paid doing the same job. Fix the demand and the supplier. Thats why people need a government because without out side influenced most will have slaves still and be mis treating all the employees.


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## simonsays

I don't agree with your logic .. or cursing the employers, who, in my eyes, could do without maids .. but, their pulling out a 1,000 $, in my eyes again, means, some family can make a better life back home ..than starving, selling themselves and kids begging ... means, the employers are not villains are you persistantly are keen to paint them as ... 

And the idea of squeezing more $ out, until they throw up their hands and give up and terminate the maids, in your logic, seems to be the right thing ... 

While Singapore pay is not as high as HK, it is much more than Malaysia .. and then again, well, there is a question of how much is enough .. 

When I earn 3,000 $, if you want me to pay 3,000 $ for my maid .. well, doesn't work that way I guess .. 

And before I throw another spanner into your works, I would like to remind you .. nobody is forcing the maids to come and works as 'slaves' (as you are fixated .. )

I like your thinking anyway .. You do sound like some street kids I saw in Manila .. when I palmed them off 10 peso .. to get rid of them, a Filipino walks up to me and says "make it a 1,000 so they can get more stuff .. " I was tempted to tell him off that it is not my problem if they let street kids on the road, and then expect me to fix their life. Nobody is fixing my life, other than myself .. and I believe in the same as "teach a man fishing .. "


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## JWilliamson

Back home? They are not home and they dont have a home. looks like they live at work. You think back home are doing better while mom is in another world? yes terminate the importation of foreign maids and those countries can start addressing thier issues. hire your own citizens so they can go to their homes after working hours thats the human thing to do. Why you hire foreigners when you can hire you own people? Why? because you cannot treat your own people the way they are treating the staving people that will take any bad treat ment to survive.


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## simonsays

you miss the point .. take a deep breath and tell me .. which ministry in Singapore goes to Philippines, Indoensia, Thailand, and Myanmar, and rounds up maids and exports them en-mass ??  

And tell Philippines, and Indonesian Govt that it is a bad idea to 'export' maids .. 

Ah .. that reminds me .. Philippines' major Forex earner is REMITTANCE OF OFW !!!!!!!!!!!!


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## JWilliamson

You are correct so if Singapore and other countries pass a law that maids have the same rights of works to get paid per hour a certain amount this importation of materials and labor will stop. In USA a maid makes a living wage so even the rich stopped hiring maids.


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## simonsays

no .. stop the EXPORTATION .. Don't let the tail wag the dog ..


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## JWilliamson

pointing what they should do is not going to be under your control best do what you really want to do or do what is ethically best.


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## Singapore Saint

I have to jump in here, and apologies for the general rant rather than replying to a specific point, but the subject of maids really raises my hackles... I've been in Singapore for nearly 7yrs, moved out from the UK, and we are perfectly capable of looking after ourselves. Our friends are perfectly capable of carrying their own children, of looking after their own children, of doing their own shopping and we can all clean up after ourselves.

I don't buy the argument that its all ok as they are earning much more money than they would in their own country, that is always the statement put out by people who try to clear their own consciences. Obviously I have no experience of having a maid, but it appears that they are treated like slaves, or at best a commodity.

Singaporeans can't seem to manage without them, they appear to be a vital part of their existence, but they are generally treated as sub-human.. I would love to see people who employ maids be treated the same way in their own workplace.. how long would they put up with that? 

People have been complaining recently about the cost of Chicken Rice going up by 50cents... save yourselves a few hundred dollars a month and wipe your own backsides instead.

You want to stop the exploitation? Don't bother looking at the countries where the maids come from and expect them to do anything about it... look much closer to home and start looking after yourselves.

No offence to anyone.


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## JWilliamson

Dan you put it well.This is not only a Singapore practice, it is happening in many areas in Asia. These countries that have so much money and treat their dogs better then they treat other humans who happen to come from another country and have a different shade of color to their skin. Would Buddha approve, would Jesus approve? I am not a religious person but I do believe in ethics.


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## Singapore Saint

JWilliamson said:


> Dan you put it well.This is not only a Singapore practice, it is happening in many areas in Asia. These countries that have so much money and treat their dogs better then they treat other humans who happen to come from another country and have a different shade of color to their skin. Would Buddha approve, would Jesus approve? I am not a religious person but I do believe in ethics.


My observation after 7yrs here is that people who come to Singapore to do the jobs that Singaporeans can't / won't do (maybe that should read 'Consider beneath them / wouldn't be seen dead doing) are looked down on and regarded as the lowest of the low.. the two main groups are maids and construction workers. 

They then complain that there are too many foreign workers in Singapore, without realising that without them, the place would go to the dogs, as there would be no-one around to do the essential jobs that Singaporeans refuse to do, the same essential jobs that keep a country running. 

I readily admit that the same is happening in the UK, with many workers (mostly Polish) coming over from Eastern Europe to do the less well-paid jobs, such as bar work, waiters and again, construction / handymen. The Brits who would normally do these jobs are up in arms as they say all of their jobs are being taken, where in reality, the Poles are simply working harder than the Brits would and for less money than the Brits would. However, the Poles are not restricted to only seeing their friends once a week / month, or prevented from having basic Human Rights, they are treated as Humans..

And at the risk of opening myself up to some heartfelt goodbye comments, I am shortly moving to Tokyo and can't wait to get there. In my admittedly short visits there so far, it is refreshing to see (certainly on the surface that I have scratched) a society that is built on honour and respect for others. I know that there are very justifiable criticisms of certain actions undertaken during WWII, but to see people treat other people with respect, instead of thinking that the world doesn't exist outside of their own 2m diameter personal space is very refreshing..


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## JWilliamson

Well put, Yes theres a difference between a country that has money and treats certain humans below the treatment of a dog and a wealthy country that treats everyone as equal.


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## simonsays

JW: there is a difference between a rich country - per se: the govt, vs the people .. and because Singapore owns major shares of Citibank + billions stashed overseas doesn't mean every Singaporean has money .. 

So .. while Singapore IS RICH, The middle class here is not rich ...

And I don't agree with your suggestion + SS Suggestion that Singaporeans treat workers as dogs .. You can beg to differ .. 

SS: Japan ?? haha .. No kidding .. you next destination has a lot of honor ?? just walk around Raponggi and see how the Filipinas are treated, to the extent of being disgusting .. 

Maybe you are fair skinned, and you were treated nice and that doesn't transcend to coloured people living in Japan .. On that score, Singapore is a better place .. 

Good luck.. and I am sure Singapore will not miss you


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## JWilliamson

I can always count on you ecureilx. I did not say the workers are treated like dogs but the domestic workers are treated worse than their own dog. Ok Rich country can still have bad habits. So if the middle class is not rich then do not try to spend and live as if they are rich. Do the rich pay their domestic workers more then the not rich middle class?


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## Singapore Saint

There is more respect and honour in Japan than in Singapore. You only have to look at how they greet each other in every day life to realise that its all based on respect. 

Singapore, however, needs a Government campaign to educate it's citizens to smile, to let people off the train before getting on, to be more'gracious'...

And for Roppongi, read Orchard Towers / Soho / Amsterdam / Vegas, every major city in the world. Each city / country will have its exceptions to the rule. However, this doesn't prevent the Japanese from appearing to be exceedingly polite and respectful, something which I just don't see that often in Singapore.

And the colour of my skin doesn't effect my ability to realise when there is a lack of respect. 

And of course Singapore won't miss me, because I'm not afraid to voice my opinions, something which you just aren't allowed to do in Singapore. But that's another topic...


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## simonsays

JW: Yes, the rich here do what you expect - weekends off .. overtime, if they are asked to work on weekends, and more often, a lot of well to do even let the maids take time off during evening hours .. .. paid vacation once a year, and atleast some of the maid earn much more than 2,000 $ .. as for your wish list of maid living on her own with her own harem of boyfriends, that's still a no-no, as per Govt law .. of course, they got their own room, but no visitors (like JW) not allowed .. for obvious reasons

And I know that, because I do interact with a lot of the DHs here, as well as through my volunteer work, so I can have some authority in saying so .. and a minority do whine about having to pay for maid's expenses, and are loathe to letting maids expect the employer to pay for chatting up boyfriends, the majority don't care .. 

And the occasional employer who makes their maid wait on them like dogs catch the interest of the world, and the 99.999999% who dont' are branded as like-wise .. Stereotyping eh ?? 

probably you guys should stop listening to the so-called no-good doing NGOs, who paint such sorry pictures .. 

SS: The Singapore that has been my home for 15 years .. doesn't have the kind of police state image you are busy painting .. things were tight but not the extent of being jailed for public opinion .. and if you wanted democracy a-la Western world, where destruction of public property and such, for IMF meetings, and G20 meetings.. sorry .. the people who destroy public property plus engage in ransacking private property, just forgot that somebody had to pay for it, and especially when it is private property, somebody's blood and sweat was destroyed .. well, the west calls it "Expression of opinion .. " too bad .. I, for one, been at the receiving end from where I come from, when, the public was protesting for some government law, burnt down my fathers business .. 

So long mate .. nice turn of conversation this goes to .. Have fun in Japan ..


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## JWilliamson

The rich are more likely to have a harem of boyfriends and girl friends then a poor over worker under educated religious woman will.


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## simonsays

JW: about the harem thingy ..   My bartending days have seen some maids managing a dozen or more men .. yah, they maybe poor and over-worked, but they don't cut corners when building their portfolio ..   of course, they are the rare exception .. and I always warned known guys to steer clear of those girls, lest their prowess be discussed when they Blood Alcohol level goes higher .. and in Graphic details ..


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## JWilliamson

Has your heard mended itself? I hope she didnt hurt you. Hehe I need a jack and coke man!


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## simonsays

?? heard mended ??


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## Singapore Saint

Ecurelix, don't get me wrong, I don't agree with the violent forms of protest in any way, shape or form, there is always a right way to make your feelings known, but one of the issues I have trouble with is the fact that until this year, the opposition parties have never been allowed to have the opportunity to win an election, and that the recent one was the first where all available seats have been contested. And even then, people weren't allowed to vote in the MM's constituency (please correct me if I'm wrong)... a democracy where not everyone is allowed to vote..

Without a viable opposition party in what is supposedly a democracy, and add on all of the usual about how the media is government-owned, how difficult it is to speak at Speakers Corner, how even peaceful protests are outlawed, how often opposition MP's just get sued for slander / libel, then it is really very difficult to believe that Singaporean's can voice their opinions.. there were quotes and opinions leading up to the recent election where Singaporeans claimed they were afraid to vote for the opposition as they thought they would lose their jobs because the Govt would find out who voted against them. Sorry, but that is not an environment where you can freely voice your opinion.

If I was Singaporean, I would be incredibly frustrated.. one of my all-time favourite quotes is "I might not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." Singapore's approach may have got it to the level it is now, but in this day and age, with younger Singaporeans having more exposure to the evil Outside World through media, expats and their own travel, where people are standing up to people such as Gadaffi, I think Singapore really needs to relax it's stance.. 

Afterall, if everything is going well and everyone is happy, what have the Government got to be afraid of...? 

Anyway, this has gone hugely off-topic, and on a thread that was started years ago...! I might be leaving Singapore, but I will still be on here for some fun active debate!


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## simonsays

Well, in politics, all is fair mate .. go to my country .. come election day .. you see more intimidation and confrontation and what not .. 

For not being on time for the submission and accusing the govt -mate, that's not fair to the others who made it on time .. they had not even queued up there .. and blaming the govt for being stiff .. not done man .. not done .. 

As for the govt being so strict et al .. atleast one of the opposition candidates was busy doing what I too don't like - trying to organise civil disobedience .. having lived in a country where there were some signs of civil disobedience (i.e. Chinese maoist take-over .. ) I know not a many Singaporeans wanted it .. and those who lived through the Indonesian and the communist stuff, fully support the govt .. 

So, play by the rules, and don't blame the umpire if you don't follow the rules

The people voted, and things are crappy as painted, why would only WP win and the PAP would still lead ?? 

I rest my case .. and yes, it has gone off-thread for a while ..


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## Singapore Saint

"For not being on time for the submission and accusing the govt -mate, that's not fair to the others who made it on time .. they had not even queued up there .. and blaming the govt for being stiff .. not done man .. not done .. "

My final comment is to point out that I meant that people were denied the opportunity to vote in the MM's constituency, I wasn't referring to those who missed the deadline... if people choose not to vote, that is up to them, but not being given the opportunity to vote in a democracy, that is something else..


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## JWilliamson

*sorry*



ecureilx said:


> ?? heard mended ??


sorry to confuse you with my bad spelling, I meant Heart


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## simonsays

JW: I cannot do a jack + coke .. jack - against the law (google Section 377A) and coke - well, punishable by death  

Well, JD Coke - yes, I can .. and give you a double measure for good .. 



PS: Did the americans invent coke, just to sweeten the bourbon ????


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## JWilliamson

actually i do not drink coke anymore except when i drink alcohol. if not i like a margarita


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## dyz

Who's starting any war-mongering??? I'm simply pointing out a fact. Without minimum wage, Singaporeans are happy to pay these women pittance. They have no issues with underpaying these women. 

Singaporeans are SO dependent on domestic help that even if a minimum wage of $600 is imposed, they'd still pay it and cut corners elsewhere. 

Abuse is not just defined by physical abuse or sexual abuse. Abuse can be in the form of exploitation (i.e underpaying them and not providing mandatory days of rest).

Just saying the law should impose minimum wage and mandatory days off.

Who cares what other nations do? They can screw up all they want. But why should we follow suit? Why point at everyone else and say they're so much more worse than us? Why not look at what we can change from within?


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## JWilliamson

remove the top part of your writing (dyz) and keep this part - Just saying the law should impose minimum wage and mandatory days off.

Who cares what other nations do? They can screw up all they want. But why should we follow suit? Why point at everyone else and say they're so much more worse than us? Why not look at what we can change from within? 

So you can get to your point without causing others anger and then they will take the defensive or offensive stance.


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## simonsays

JWilliamson said:


> I have been in Hong Kong for over three years and I have noticed, especially on Sundays, How many women domestic workers are very intimate with other domestic workers in the park and many seem to be having a relationship with the other women. Also many of the women are dressing as a man and are in somewhat control of the other women. Why is this happening so much with these women who come from a conservative country?


That my friend, is the un-written cause of the stricter rules in Singapore, including the pregnancy tests for Maids .. as more often, when a maid got pregnant, she accused her employer first, and maybe good or bad, back from where-ever she came from, the news spreads like wildfire that she was gang raped .. etc .etc .. until it turns out that the culprit was her sunday boyfriend .. 

As to why they do it ?? Well .. being free of the controls, plus influenced by the 'veterans' who insist drinking and pubbing and getting some xxx will make you forget your home .. or so I was told .. and then again, most of these girls come from countries where they are close to their family, and a bit of physical interaction seems to make them forget home .. 

As for the les thingy .. no clue as well ..


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## simonsays

not true .. especially in Philippines gays are common .. or more like, trans are common .. even there are cross dressing entertainers .. 

the female - female thing, some, from what i learnt from counselling, is, a woman scorned by men, takes it on her to make other women hate all men .. 

and of course, there are cases where the greenhorns are caught by the veterans and groomed, for personal as well as financial benefits ..


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## lucyng

ecureilx said:


> And some have the maid sleeping the hall and wonder why the maids are not happy working for 'locals' and prefer to work for expat employers ..  Duh ! the answer is obvious : Expat employer = likelihood of Condo = likelihood of Maid room (and privacy)


Excuse me,

if you feel you are superior then why are you in Singapore? why come to singapore and yet try to show your superiority. go back to your country and be your own maid


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## pichuya

I would suggest you to take part time maids if you do not have kids. part time maids can come weekly based on hourly rate and it's very affordable!


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## lilmiss

*Selling Universal Studios Tickets*


Hi all! 

I have 8 adult admission tickets to USS, valid on any day between now to 31 May 2013.

I'm selling at *$63* instead of $74.
If you take all 8 tickets, I can give you some free vouchers:

$30 off Levi's Suntec City 
Adidas Suntec City: 20% off and $10 off total bill -- can be used together

Do contact me at *lady_d2p yahoo com* if you're interested. First come first served. 
many thanks!


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