# Some advice - should I go?



## jamesmpollard (Mar 3, 2015)

Hi Ladies & Gentleman

I was wondering if anyone could provide some advice. I currently live in Co. Durham, England with my partner and 2 young children (3 & 1). We are going through a very rough time at the minute with money and for a while now we've been thinking about moving to Spain. We have our reserves because of how much of a life change it is and the job situation out there but we was wondering if anyone could provide some advice on the following.

1) Where are the British Expat communities in Spain?
2) What is the property market like and how easy is it to rent a property?
3) What is the minimum we would need a month to live on (in GBP)?
- We will have around £1,500 a month to convert to euro, is this enough to live on?
4) How hard is it to get permanent residency in Spain? - We are all British born.
5) Last but not least. When applying for residency in Spain, do they inform the UK or will we need to?

Any help would be really appreciated.

Thanks guy's and girls
James


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

jamesmpollard said:


> Hi Ladies & Gentleman
> 
> I was wondering if anyone could provide some advice. I currently live in Co. Durham, England with my partner and 2 young children (3 & 1). We are going through a very rough time at the minute with money and for a while now we've been thinking about moving to Spain. We have our reserves because of how much of a life change it is and the job situation out there but we was wondering if anyone could provide some advice on the following.
> 
> ...


:welcome:

I'll take the questions in order

1) There are 'expat communities' all over the place, but they tend to gravitate towards the coast
2) There are plenty of rental properties in most areas, but it's getting harder to rent them - a lot of agents and owners are beginning to ask for references, bank guarantees & so on - two months deposit & a month rent upfront - plus maybe an agent fee is standard for a furnished property
3) At the moment 1500 GBP is about 2000€, but it's not so long ago that it was almost at parity - if that happened again, 1500€ would be tight - but 2000€ would be OK - depending on where exactly you live & whether or not you want the big villa with a poll or a small property or maybe an apartment. In my town you can easily pay 2000€ a month for a villa (not necessarily anything amazing) or 400€ a month for a 2 bed apartment
4) You need to register as resident if you intend to be here more than 90 days - for that you have to show funds/income & healthcare. Permanent residency is only possible after you have been legally resident for 5 years. There's more info in the link below
5) have a read of this MOVING TO SPAIN – WHAT TO DO & WHEN


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## jamesmpollard (Mar 3, 2015)

Hi

Thank you for such a prompt response. 

Regarding property - I would be looking for a 4 bed house/villa close to the coast and city for both work and pleasure. I would be looking for unfurnished. But a good 200? of whatever the rent is will be covered not by me as my brother would like to follow me if I go and that is his offer. 

Regarding the incomes ect for residence, do you know what this involves? Someone I used to speak to moved over on benefits in the UK. I didn't know that was possible? I already haven't an EHIC card if that helps with the healthcare side of this things? 

I would love to take this step in life but if I'm honest, I'm clueless to the process and cost!


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## alborino (Dec 13, 2014)

jamesmpollard said:


> - We will have around £1,500 a month to convert to euro, is this enough to live on?


James what is the £1500 a month? Is that take home pay from a job in the UK? Only ask because you mention "the job situation out there".

Also the Spanish taxman can be nasty so you need to be clear on how you will operate.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

How much you can live on is anyone's guess because everyone has a different idea and also because regions vary considerably.
One thing you have to take into consideration is childcare. School isn't obligatory until 6, but I've lived here for nearly 30 years and don't know anyone whose children started so late. Most children strat in pre school the year the turn 3. School is free as in tuition, but parents pay for books and materials and that can be pricey. Most state primary schools don't have a uniform, but some do and in some it's optional (Madrid area).
The second thing to consider is the job situation. Look at my signature. We are in pre election campaign here and it seems that the unemployment figures go down every month, but when you've started from over 25% unemployment, you can only guess when the employment figures are going to be "acceptable". In fact Spain hasn't had full employment for decades.
Do lots of research about economy, work, education etc and see what you think. You can start right here as there's a FAQ stickie with info about the paperwork you have to do, education, tax, renting, buying etc.
You might be better looking at a different country though.


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## jamesmpollard (Mar 3, 2015)

alborino said:


> James what is the £1500 a month? Is that take home pay from a job in the UK? Only ask because you mention "the job situation out there".
> 
> Also the Spanish taxman can be nasty so you need to be clear on how you will operate.


Hi alborino

Sort of, very long story but basically I'll be getting that much for up to 6 months after moving over (maybe longer).

What do you mean? I've heard that there's things like more than one "tax" on renting a property. Things like that?


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## jamesmpollard (Mar 3, 2015)

Pesky Wesky said:


> How much you can live on is anyone's guess because everyone has a different idea and also because regions vary considerably.
> One thing you have to take into consideration is childcare. School isn't obligatory until 6, but I've lived here for nearly 30 years and don't know anyone whose children started so late. Most children strat in pre school the year the turn 3. School is free as in tuition, but parents pay for books and materials and that can be pricey. Most state primary schools don't have a uniform, but some do and in some it's optional (Madrid area).
> The second thing to consider is the job situation. Look at my signature. We are in pre election campaign here and it seems that the unemployment figures go down every month, but when you've started from over 25% unemployment, you can only guess when the employment figures are going to be "acceptable". In fact Spain hasn't had full employment for decades.
> Do lots of research about economy, work, education etc and see what you think. You can start right here as there's a FAQ stickie with info about the paperwork you have to do, education, tax, renting, buying etc.
> You might be better looking at a different country though.



Hi Pesky Wesky

Very true, we're not looking to live a lavish lifestyle so we wouldn't need a massive amount of money. Of course, the more money the better though. But I think this is the case for everyone.

Funny you should mention that - I was reading about this the other day. My eldest is in pre-school and will soon be going up to primary so I would like him to go straight into school and the same with my youngest (when he turn's 3). I won't have them start school so late. One thing I do want for them though is the school to be English too, so they can be bi-lingual in Spain.

To be honest, that does worry me. I'm a website developer by trade and other than that, manual labor is all I'm really any good at. I've been having a look at the FAQ, it's really interesting and is helping a lot. Not finding much on the process, cost and renting though. Maybe I haven't gone back far enough!?

I doubt my partner would agree to moving anywhere else lol. It was a tough time getting her to agree with Spain.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

> =jamesmpollard;6581586
> 
> Funny you should mention that - I was reading about this the other day. My eldest is in pre-school and will soon be going up to primary so I would like him to go straight into school and the same with my youngest (when he turn's 3). I won't have them start school so late. One thing I do want for them though is* the school to be English too, so they can be bi-lingual in Spain*.



I don't understand what you mean here.
If you speak English at home, which I presume you will, and help and encourage them with their reading and writing above all, they'll most probably end up bilingual as they'll have Spanish at school, because in state school the education is in the majority in Spanish. Otherwise you're going to end up paying a pretty penny for private education in English for 2 kids. (Which plenty of Spanish people do by the way so that their kids speak English)


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## brocher (Mar 21, 2011)

jamesmpollard said:


> Hi Pesky Wesky
> 
> Very true, we're not looking to live a lavish lifestyle so we wouldn't need a massive amount of money. Of course, the more money the better though. But I think this is the case for everyone.
> 
> ...



Well, if the children are in Spanish state school, they will be taught in Spanish, not English. If you want them taught in English, you will have to stay in the UK or pay for very expensive private schooling.

The process of renting isn't much different to what it is in the UK. There are links to property websites in the FAQ thread. As has been already said, landlords will increasingly look for proof that you can afford the payments - ie contract fo work, references, etc.

As has been said, cost of rent varies widely. Some areas of the CdS, prices start around 600€ per month for a small one bed....so you can figure what a 4 bed villa will cost. Often cheaper inland. Otherwise, the usual way to calculate the cost of living is just to think that whatever you pay at home in pounds, you will pay in Spain in euros- some things are a little cheaper, some a little more expensive.

Long before you think of rental details, you need to figure out whether you can meet the residence requirements which you have to do within 90 days of arrival ( not the same as permanent residence). To do so, you need to show that you have sufficient healthcare provision and income. EHIC card is no use. You either need to qualify for state healthcare by paying NI contributions from legally contracted work or pay for private healthcare. Income requirement can be satisfied by a contract of work or proof that you have sufficient funds from another source amounting to approx 600€ per person per month including children. Some areas ask for approx 6000€ per person in savings, either instead of or as well as the monthly income. If you are not married, partner will have to apply for and satisfy these requirements in their own right.

You won't be entitled to any tax. credits, child benefit or unemployment benefit.

Chances of legal, contracted work - very poor. Gibraltar has some IT work.

Don't even contemplate this move until you have thoroughly researched the practicalities and have already secured a contracted job.


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## littlecritterz (Nov 29, 2012)

If you want the kids to go to an English speaking school then you will need to put them into a private school, and that will cost. At their age they would settle very well in a spanish school and would become bi lingual much quicker. If you choose to live in a coastal area then it is likely that the bulk of your income will go on rental costs (for the size of property you want). The further inland you go the cheaper the property tends to be. I live 45 minutes drive from malaga and can live comfortably on the equivalent of just over £1,000 and this covers my rent (a large 4 bed property with a patio, terrace and large garage) all of my bills including my mobile phone, internet etc, one daughter, three dogs and running a car. I don't drink or smoke but can afford to meet friends for coffee or a meal or go on day trips etc. I could not afford a similar property or lifestyle if I lived closer to the coast or in one of the major cities.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

littlecritterz said:


> If you want the kids to go to an English speaking school then you will need to put them into a private school, and that will cost. At their age they would settle very well in a spanish school and would become bi lingual much quicker. If you choose to live in a coastal area then it is likely that the bulk of your income will go on rental costs (for the size of property you want). The further inland you go the cheaper the property tends to be. I live 45 minutes drive from malaga and can live comfortably on the equivalent of just over £1,000 and this covers my rent (a large 4 bed property with a patio, terrace and large garage) all of my bills including my mobile phone, internet etc, one daughter, three dogs and running a car. I don't drink or smoke but can afford to meet friends for coffee or a meal or go on day trips etc. I could not afford a similar property or lifestyle if I lived closer to the coast or in one of the major cities.


To give you more of an idea on how cost of living varies, we live a good bit further inland (about 1½-2 hours from the coast and we (3 adults, two dogs, 5 bed/2Ba house) live quite comfortably on 650€ per month. We run a small MPV (6 y.o.) which suits our needs and is the commonest type of vehicle around here.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Very few live like you, though, Baldy. You can't compare your situation to a family with two young children either..

We chose to rent rather than buy and have lived for six years in a three bedroomed villa on a double plot with pool in a quiet coastal village. The first year's rent was 2300 euros but we now pay 1000 euros as our landlord wants to keep us as tenants - we pay the rent in one lump sum and do small repairs. That is a very low rent for a property in this area but we are good tenants and our landlord lives in Austria.
But....water, electricity, gas to heat in winter, internet/phone, gardener to look after the large garden and pool, diesel for the cars...that all adds another 500 euros a month to the rent.
We are retired and have free health care so that's not a worry. But dental care is not free and it's not cheap. Then there are the other expenses...insurance for the cars, replacing domestic equipment, car repairs and tax, buying new clothes, going out for meals and coffees...and the occasional holiday or trip to the UK.
It all adds up.

As Brocher pointed out, you will have to show a contracted income of 2400 euros a month before you can become legally resident, possibly with 6000 euros savings added to that.
Finding work as a labourer is a big zero...there are six million unemployed Spaniards looking for any work and they will be first in the queue.


Anyone coming to Spain whilst in receipt of most benefits is doing so illegally and will if caught be prosecuted and possibly jailed. The DHSS is on the watch for benefit fraud in Spain. There are no tax credits, housing benefit or child benefit in Spain.

You asked whether you should stay or go. My advice would be to stay and in any case you may not satisfy the income requirements.
But it won't do any harm to visit and find out for yourself before committing.


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## labob (Dec 2, 2014)

Are you going to be working as a web designer on uk contracts? I know a few people who've done that here but ended up back in the UK for reasons of language and opportunity. 

The best idea is to find an area you like first, then research costs. It varies so much from area to area. For example where I live my ten hour a week work contract was sufficient for the government and a perfectly average 3/4 bedroom flat near the beach can cost as little as 400€ a month. 

Find an area you like the look of then have a look on Idealista.com etc for rents, then go from there.


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## Horlics (Sep 27, 2011)

Do you have a preferred location to go to?



jamesmpollard said:


> Hi
> 
> Thank you for such a prompt response.
> 
> ...


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## extranjero (Nov 16, 2012)

James, if you are having a tough time with money, then Spain would be the last place to choose!


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

extranjero said:


> James, if you are having a tough time with money, then Spain would be the last place to choose!


Now now.....don't be negative


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## extranjero (Nov 16, 2012)

mrypg9 said:


> Now now.....don't be negative


I thought you'd back me up on this one!


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

extranjero said:


> I thought you'd back me up on this one!


But I often do!!


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

The first step is work, and if you've got a family you should get the work before you come, in my opinion of course. When you've got the job is when you can think about actually moving. Of course, the best is to look for a job and gather info about how to do things at the same time so if a job does come up you can go.


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## Horlics (Sep 27, 2011)

I'm saying the same on this one too. Nothing negative at all about that recommendation for this case.



mrypg9 said:


> But I often do!!


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

As newbies to Spain, we have been here a year, early retired, live on a low income. BUT that's us. Children are a different ball game. Toys,clothes, education, school trips, wants and needs. We can cut back difficult to cut back with children.

Basically in my humble opinion, you need to base the cost of living in Spain on Like for Like. Yes the exchange rate is good at the moment, but when it takes a nose dive again, it may or it may not.

Base what you live on in the UK as what you need in Spain that would be a good starting point.

Also, think of the opportunities that will be afforded to your children in the UK against what is available in Spain.


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## ABERAFON (Aug 15, 2014)

I no longer live in Spain but we are thinking of buying a holiday home there again as we miss it so much, so I can understand why you may wish to come to Spain to live, I do myself, but won't at present. We are early retired on your income of about £1500 per month with savings and an un-mortgaged home in the UK and I would feel that it would be a risk for me. But whilst trying not to be negative, based on my experience in Spain which was good, if I were you I would not even attempt to move your family to Spain at present. However hard it is for you in the UK, you have a safety net, in Spain you are on your own in a country that has horrendous administration and you without fluency in the language, no job, children and only income of £1500 per month which you said was for 6 months. Please for you and your families sake don't move to Spain until you can afford it as any problems you have in the UK will follow you to Spain, it is not the land of milk and honey despite it having a wonderful environment, beautiful scenery and the sun most days it is tough and even tougher if you need to earn a living. People don't know how hard it can be when you need to work and I have seen so many peoples dreams and bank accounts broken in Spain. Try other countries outside the EU - USA, Canada, Australia etc. there are prospect there for you and your children, there are no prospects in Spain for either of you and there is not likely to be any for some years or even decades. I am not being negative just a concerned realist.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Horlics said:


> I'm saying the same on this one too. Nothing negative at all about that recommendation for this case.


'Negativity' is a state of mind, like optimism. Reality is looking at and recognising the facts on the ground. A day spent in our charity shop would illustrate the difference.
It's easy for those on an immigrant income to be unaware of the downside of life in the sun. The 'Spanish dream' for immigrants is a nightmare for far too many Spaniards.

I can only repeat what I always say: Retired, not looking for work, good income, come to Spain. Got secure job contract with good salary, come to Spain. Single, no dependents, wanting a little experience of life abroad, give it a go but have a Plan B in your pocket.

Family, young children, no Spanish, no job, stay home, especially if you are finding life hard in the UK.

Absolutely nothing 'negative' about that, but surely 100% realistic.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

So many of those who came, failed and went back are those who came with no income, no job, no prospects and no hope. Rose-coloured spectacles are fine if you are wealthy and have few responsibilities otherwise they just give an artificial colouration to the world that prevents your seeing reality for what it is.


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## explayboybunny (May 31, 2013)

*wood burner*

Hi, Pam and George here, you were very helpful with the advice regarding a wood burner, we are in Wales at the present but are coming back to Spain in May/June, would it be possible to see your wood burner?, we don't live very far from you.
Please let me know your email. I would give you mine but I've just been told to remove it from my post as I haven't posted enough stuff yet.
No problem if you prefer not to.
Many thanks


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