# Rating Corruption Among Mexican States



## Hound Dog (Jan 18, 2009)

According to INEGI (Instituto Nacional de Estadísticas y Geografía), the ten most corrupted states in Mexico are (in order of most corrupt to least corrupt among this select group:

(1) San Luis Potosí (2) DF (3) Edomex (4) Chihuahua (5) Quintana Roo (6) Tabasco (7) Jalisco (8) Tlaxcala (9) Michoacan (10) Oaxaca 

I cannot believe INEGI dissed my favorite state of Chiapas in this questionnable ranking. I guess it´s because Chiapas is so corrupt, INEGI´s corruption criteria were inadequate to measure the exquisite level of deception achieved there. As George Castanza said to Jerry Seinfeld years ago, " Always remember, Jerry, if you really believe it, it´s not a lie."


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## GARYJ65 (Feb 9, 2013)

Hound Dog said:


> According to INEGI (Instituto Nacional de Estadísticas y Geografía), the ten most corrupted states in Mexico are (in order of most corrupt to least corrupt among this select group: (1) San Luis Potosí (2) DF (3) Edomex (4) Chihuahua (5) Quintana Roo (6) Tabasco (7) Jalisco (8) Tlaxcala (9) Michoacan (10) Oaxaca I cannot believe INEGI dissed my favorite state of Chiapas in this questionnable ranking. I guess it´s because Chiapas is so corrupt, INEGI´s corruption criteria were inadequate to measure the exquisite level of deception achieved there. As George Castanza said to Jerry Seinfeld years ago, " Always remember, Jerry, if you really believe it, it´s not a lie."


Perhaps Chiapas paid INEGI to be erased from the list?


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## chicois8 (Aug 8, 2009)

Like Washington DC I never thought of DF as being a state.


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## Hound Dog (Jan 18, 2009)

[_QUOTE=chicois8;4316026]Like Washington DC I never thought of DF as being a state.[/QUOTE]_

You´ll need to take that up with the statisticians at INEGI who published these rankings and, in so doing. defined the political entities they ranked in their survey as "states"among which was DF.

As for Dawg, for a time back in the 1960s I lived in Washington, DC around Dupont Circle which was a gay enclave before said designation became popular and, while I can´t speak for others living there back then, I can assure you that, while I was living in DC, I was almost always in a state. Then I moved to the Haight Asbury in San Francisco where I achieved true statelessness around 1967. Time continues to move on inexorably and ever more rapidly. 

.


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## kcowan (Jul 24, 2010)

We're #7! I feel better already...


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## coondawg (May 1, 2014)

I would have guessed Guanajuato was not on the list. Corrupt? Certainly, but not on the scale as many others, not the same playing field.


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## lagoloo (Apr 12, 2011)

For a further look at life in Guanajuato, check this article:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/23/world/americas/23mexico.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0


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## travelinhobo (Sep 17, 2010)

lol This is a joke, right? INEGI is a gov't organization. If the gov't is corrupt, then so too are the organizations. If the organizations are corrupt,...what's that phrase with the kettle calling itself black?

Corruption can not be measured just like illegals and homeless can't be counted because you never know if you've counted it all and not everyone's going to admit to it. Now let's get back to our daily lives here in crazy Mexico.


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## AlanMexicali (Jun 1, 2011)

travelinhobo said:


> lol This is a joke, right? INEGI is a gov't organization. If the gov't is corrupt, then so too are the organizations. If the organizations are corrupt,...what's that phrase with the kettle calling itself black?
> 
> Corruption can not be measured just like illegals and homeless can't be counted because you never know if you've counted it all and not everyone's going to admit to it. Now let's get back to our daily lives here in crazy Mexico.


I asked my wife about the INEGI questionares they give out and wait to collect in the main plazas and shopping malls around the country and she says most people with a busy life can´t be bothered to take the time and walk past the surveyors. The survey questionaires are about 3 or 4 pages long on some issues.

I feel some are with little knowledge and use just hearsay, opinión and gossip and like to feel important taking an officail gov´t. survey. I read they poll about 300 in most locations and work the percentages from those polled. Sounds to me like for some people it is a game people who have nothing better to do play. Not all by any means.


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## AlanMexicali (Jun 1, 2011)

[Note added by Moderator: Contents of article deleted. Please visit the link.]
El Universal - In English - Guerrero is first place in corruption: INEGI



[Note added by Moderator: Contents of article deleted. Please visit the link.]
Mexico's Police Outdo Even Politicians for Corruption


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## Hound Dog (Jan 18, 2009)

AlanMexicali said:


> "Guerrero is first place in corruption: INEGI
> Vania Pigeonutt| El Universal
> 21:07Wednesday 18 June 2014
> 
> ...


INEGI seems to be confused on the issue of corruption or, as we used to say back in the States, the right arm doesn´t know what the left arm is doing.

In the INEGI statistics I quoted from the internet, Guerrero didn´t even make the top ten nor did my beloved Chiapas but I must admit, Guerrero and Chiapas, places in which I live (Chiapas) or occasionally visit (Guerrero) , seem mighty corrupt to me and the INEGI top spot of San Luis Potosí State, Alan´s stomping grounds, always seemed like a pussycat in comparison - at least on the surface. 

Reminds me of how Peña Nieto cleaned up the crime statistics for all of Mexico.

A few years ago, there was a movement in North Dakota to change the name of the state to "Dakota" to clean up the state´s image because "North" sounded so negative. The movement didn´t pass muster but some were quite serious about seeking that name change. Personally, I thing as long as they were gouig to change the name to make the place seem more attractive, they should have been more creative. How about "Emerald Plains"? After all, those vast flatlands must occasionally turn green for a while each year.

Here at Lake Chapala, it seems most foreigners are from South Dakota judging by the phony license plates all of which constantly remind us that South Dakota is famous for "Great Faces Great Places". What the hell, if you have nothing to brag about, brag about nothing. After years at Lakeside, I am convinced there are more South Dakota license plates here than motor vehicles in that entire state. This may be their major source of state revenue. 

If you are a U.S. expat, you can´t open a U.S. bank account but no problem getting a South Dakota license plate even if you have never set foot there.


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

Hound Dog said:


> _[…]_
> In the INEGI statistics I quoted from the internet, Guerrero didn´t even make the top ten nor did my beloved Chiapas but I must admit, Guerrero and Chiapas, places in which I live (Chiapas) or occasionally visit (Guerrero) , seem mighty corrupt to me and the INEGI top spot of San Luis Potosí State, Alan´s stomping grounds, always seemed like a pussycat in comparison - at least on the surface.
> […]


I don't know how much credibility to give to INEGI's statistics, but I do know how much to give to Hound Dog's sample of one: 0. The sample size is too small by a bunch of orders of magnitude.

Sorry, Hound Dog.


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## lagoloo (Apr 12, 2011)

Hound Dog:
"Here at Lake Chapala, it seems most foreigners are from South Dakota judging by the phony license plates all of which constantly remind us that South Dakota is famous for "Great Faces Great Places". What the hell, if you have nothing to brag about, brag about nothing. After years at Lakeside, I am convinced there are more South Dakota license plates here than motor vehicles in that entire state. This may be their major source of state revenue.
If you are a U.S. expat, you can´t open a U.S. bank account but no problem getting a South Dakota license plate even if you have never set foot there. "

...Which merely confirms the fact that many expats want to have it both ways. Some are still in a dither because moving on to Permanente status requires getting rid of those beloved plates (along with the cars attached to them) and actually participating in the costs of highway maintenance.......in Mexico. 
I have noticed a reduction in numbers of those plates lately, judging from the the Superlake parking lot. I'm also noticing all the S&S auto sales stickers on the small cars with Jalisco plates replacing the big honking SUV's they brought down with them. Must have been a heart rending parting. Sob.


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## AlanMexicali (Jun 1, 2011)

TundraGreen said:


> I don't know how much credibility to give to INEGI's statistics, but I do know how much to give to Hound Dog's sample of one: 0. The sample size is too small by a bunch of orders of magnitude.
> 
> Sorry, Hound Dog.


It is very hard to come to any conclusión on illegal activities. For example kidnapping and extortion here. Who reports those to authorities much less tells a wife and friends they are being extorted etc. ? It is usually too dangerous to talk about.

Big time corruption same thing. Small time no problem mentioning it to someone. Who admits to big time corruption and who knows about it? The participants only and those that get caught and are news articles. The news articles give no indication of odds. 1% get caught, 20% get caught etc. Is it happening for years, months, days or all through the decade and onto the next decade or next monthy or year? Who knows. 

Peoples opinión and experience in a questionare: BSing, actual experience, gut feelings, newspaper articles, or something to get a rise out of for the moment?

300 surveyed random people over 18 in urban áreas over 100,000 inhabitants. How is that making percentages of opinions even close to an accurate assumption of the preceptions of the general public at large in the country or their state or city of the above issues?

I would like to know.


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

TundraGreen said:


> I don't know how much credibility to give to INEGI's statistics, but I do know how much to give to Hound Dog's sample of one: 0. The sample size is too small by a bunch of orders of magnitude.
> 
> Sorry, Hound Dog.


In fairness to Hound Dog, I should note that I realize he wasn't claiming statistical significance to his statement, just giving an account of his experiences.


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## coondawg (May 1, 2014)

AlanMexicali said:


> [Note added by Moderator: Contents of article deleted. Please visit the link.]
> El Universal - In English - Guerrero is first place in corruption: INEGI
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks for posting the source and allowing us the opportunity to read in its entirety, if we choose. A quick line or two summary always does the job, along with the source.


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## kcowan (Jul 24, 2010)

ISTR that a certain county in South Dakota got into the license plate business for people that had sold their homes and lived in RVs. Its application to cars in Mexico is incidental because you must have a US titled vehicle and a US address so they never knew about the Mexico loophole (at least officially).


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## Hound Dog (Jan 18, 2009)

I know I've told this tale before but this seems like a perfect time to re-tell this actual event that took place on the slopes of the Tacana' Volcano near Unión Juarez, Chiapas about.maybe 100 meters from the Guatemala border. This happened to me about four yars ago so no hearsay involved - merely down-in-the-dirt personal experience.

Dawg and family had an accident and flipped the car late at night and, while I was incapacitated, the local cops showed up to "rescue" me and, incidentally, steal my wallet from my pocket and then detain me for inquiry as to the nature of this one car accident. Well, after several hours of detention and questioning, it was decided among all those crooked officials not to awake the magistrate at that late hour as that would almost certainlyl piss him off to no end so I was let go into the hands of the federal pólice to be taken back to the hotel while my car was towed into a taller in Tapachula. I complained to the (very pleasant) federal cops that the local Unión Juarez cops had stolen my wallet which contained a significant amount of money and all of my vital papers. They responded basically that, yeah, they always do that to accident victims but there is nothing we can do about it. That´s just the way it is and, by the way, this ride from the pólice station to your hotel is going to cost you $5,000Pesos. The inference was that that was the price of the ride or we could exit the cop car and walk down a dark, deserted road at 2:00AM on the Chiapas/Guatemala border and hope to find our hotel. I, of course, had no money as the local cops had stolen it but one of us had some debit cards but no significant amount of cash so the federal cops took us to the nearest ATM so we could withdraw $5,000 Pesos and pay them that money to deliver us back to our hotel. Everybody from the "rescuing" cops to the local magistrate´s office to the federal cops was crooked to the core. 

We headed back to San Cristóbal de Las Casas by bus and returned to the taller in Tapachula a week later to pick up our repaired car and everything and I mean _everything _including the Jack had been stolen from our car by (1) the cops, (2) the tow truck driver or (3) the taller. Who knows.

Back in San Cristóbal, I asked the local Nissan dealer if he could supply me with a replacement jack for my 2004 Nissan XTrail and he responded that they might have to request a compatible jack from Japan since nobody ever requested a new jack so no surplus jacks were in stock anywhere in Mexico even though Nissan had a factory here I believe in Aguas Calientes.

The local cops, the city officials, the federal cops - all rotten to the bone. That is just one story of many I can relate after eight years in Chiapas. I cannot believe Chiapas avoided the INEGI top ten. Somebody is fudging the figures or the states making the top ten must be something else. 

By the way, I did not mean to single out Chiapas; the traffic cops at "Lakeside" at Lake Chapala with that large expat community are attracted to foreign motorists like vultures to carrion. To survive here in Mexico, keep your head down, sustain a low profile and never look a cop in the eye. Also, and perhaps most importantly, drive a Mexican plated car.


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## Hound Dog (Jan 18, 2009)

_


kcowan said:



ISTR that a certain county in South Dakota got into the license plate business for people that had sold their homes and lived in RVs. Its application to cars in Mexico is incidental because you must have a US titled vehicle and a US address so *they never knew about the Mexico loophole (at least officially).[/*QUOTE]

Click to expand...

_


kcowan said:


> Wink, Wink.
> 
> Aunt Maudie in Pierre must be thrilled to own 5,000 vehicles while living right there on Main Street with her small front yard on her social security benefits. I think that with the new immigration rules, "South Dakotans" will soon no longer be among us in such numbers.


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## lagoloo (Apr 12, 2011)

It gets even better. 
There is a town in South Dakota where they have an outfit catering to gazillionaires who want to set up eternal trusts to avoid death taxes. Apparently it is doing very well in an old former dime store.
Creative folks, those South Dakotans. And here we thought there wasn't much going in the frozen North.

I was looking for some other information on Google and ran into that. Mouth hanging open in finding that gaping a loophole in the tax laws.


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## GARYJ65 (Feb 9, 2013)

Why would someone care about a dead accurate number on corruption in Mexico?
Who cares if INEGI is mighty reliable or not?
What is it with that search or accuracy on everything?
Of course statistics are not accurate!


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## AlanMexicali (Jun 1, 2011)

GARYJ65 said:


> Why would someone care about a dead accurate number on corruption in Mexico?
> Who cares if INEGI is mighty reliable or not?
> What is it with that search or accuracy on everything?
> Of course statistics are not accurate!


Because you have a couple of people here and more on the other 2 expat forums I read, stating Mexico is corrupt from the top to the bottom and believe these articles written with statistics like these in them. 

My sister and brother in law in Canada also.

Many do not understand what a poll is and how they project percentages from polls and people use these to state as a fact unknowable things about some issues.

Here is a example how statistics can be used by some people:


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## GARYJ65 (Feb 9, 2013)

Ok, whatever


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## Justina (Jan 25, 2013)

Many moons ago, during the period of Salinas and Camacho Solis as governor or mayor of the DF, I bought a new Volkswagon and collected it on a Thursday and very happily drove it down to the DF on the Friday.We lived in the country, only to be flagged over, cos it hadn't done its MOT. I seem to remember that I was on my way to the bank to cash a cheque and truly had nowt on me, but the traffic police quite happily accepted a modest cheque, followed behind me to a reasonable spot and I continued my journey home where I got into my old Vocho went back down to the city and voila the police had already popped in to cash their cheque.
I have no idea how much the police now get paidbut in those days it was truly miserable. Indeed, it was said that their bosses insisted on a set amount of dosh to be handed in. In those circumstances, what does a policeman do?


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## GARYJ65 (Feb 9, 2013)

Justina said:


> Many moons ago, during the period of Salinas and Camacho Solis as governor or mayor of the DF, I bought a new Volkswagon and collected it on a Thursday and very happily drove it down to the DF on the Friday.We lived in the country, only to be flagged over, cos it hadn't done its MOT. I seem to remember that I was on my way to the bank to cash a cheque and truly had nowt on me, but the traffic police quite happily accepted a modest cheque, followed behind me to a reasonable spot and I continued my journey home where I got into my old Vocho went back down to the city and voila the police had already popped in to cash their cheque.
> I have no idea how much the police now get paidbut in those days it was truly miserable. Indeed, it was said that their bosses insisted on a set amount of dosh to be handed in. In those circumstances, what does a policeman do?


Those are NOT policemen
Those are lookalikes
They are thugs, criminals, unprepared guys looking for easy money, they are willing to do anything to get it. When they get caught, even before they do, they do many other things on aside; kidnapping, bribing, blackmailing, many times without the uniforms.
Many people accept this, some people, perhaps many, get in the game and pay them off without making charges against them.
Some crazy ones, like me, just refuse to do so, not because we believe in holy justice, but after being kidnapped, we refuse to keep on "playing along", I know a couple of locos like me


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## coondawg (May 1, 2014)

When you were kidnapped, Gary, did they cut off a finger and send it to relatives? Know 2 people who had this experience before they paid.


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## GARYJ65 (Feb 9, 2013)

coondawg said:


> When you were kidnapped, Gary, did they cut off a finger and send it to relatives? Know 2 people who had this experience before they paid.


They did not
I dis not pay 1 peso
I knew one person who got killed, and some others that paid and were released


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## chicois8 (Aug 8, 2009)

Seems to me Mexico is like Chicago in the thirties, organized crime, the drug business, murder, extortion, protection, crooked politicians, etc.etc.
Prices going up for everything because hotels,restaurants,stores,shops and even street vendors 
have to pay the extortion the gangs demand...
It looks like the mordida has slowed significantly among federal employees ( customs,immigration and police) but at the state and local levels it has remained the same for a hundred years...QUE LASTIMA !


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## AlanMexicali (Jun 1, 2011)

chicois8 said:


> Seems to me Mexico is like Chicago in the thirties, organized crime, the drug business, murder, extortion, protection, crooked politicians, etc.etc.
> Prices going up for everything because hotels,restaurants,stores,shops and even street vendors
> have to pay the extortion the gangs demand...
> It looks like the mordida has slowed significantly among federal employees ( customs,immigration and police) but at the state and local levels it has remained the same for a hundred years...QUE LASTIMA !


I disagree it is the same at the state level and impunity is not buying your way out as has been reported in national newspapers. The more they arrest and convict crooks the more others will think twice about stealing gov't. funds. Busting "La Maestra" Gordillo and her coharts will tell if anyone can buy their way out anymore. State controller offices are not the same as 100 years ago. Some states are behind of course. 

Federal controllers are going after many people where federal funds there is even a small discrepancy as reported by national newspapers. Heads are starting to roll now and time will tell how the court system deals with the cases on the books now even if it takes a couple of years. It should be interesting.


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## AlanMexicali (Jun 1, 2011)

Mexico arrests former opposition party governor in embezzlement | Reuters

"Various Mexican governors have been accused of corruption, but few have been brought to trial.

Last year, Andres Granier, the former governor of the southern state of Tabasco for the ruling Institutional Revolutionary Party (PRI), was arrested and also accused of embezzlement after police found 88.5 million pesos in an office used by his former finance minister."

Eight ex Govenors from Aguascaliente to Coahuila are under subpoena or are under arrest for embezzlement now [one of them walked on the charges] and the ex Mayor and her husband of San Miguel de Allende also. etc.


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## coondawg (May 1, 2014)

What would impress me, would be a list of those who have been found guilty and have been sent to prison, along with the number of years they must serve in prison. In Mexico, being detained, being charged, being investigated etc. means very little, until they are actually found guilty. Remember, about 3% of those who commit crimes actually do hard(?) time. More smoke now? No more real action than before, IMHO.


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## coondawg (May 1, 2014)

AlanMexicali said:


> I disagree it is the same at the state level. Busting "La Maestra" Gordillo and her coharts will tell if anyone can buy their way out anymore. Heads are starting to roll now


I disagree that Elva being incarcerated has made any difference in the Teaching Profession in Mexico. My 2 sources, relatives (1 teacher-Elem. and 1 principal-Elem.) say that exactly nothing has changed for them , their teachers, or the schools since Elva was taken away. They say that there is always someone to take their place. (much like the cartels losing a leader). Nothing changes for the better. :frusty:


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

coondawg said:


> I disagree that Elva being incarcerated has made any difference in the Teaching Profession in Mexico. My 2 sources, relatives (1 teacher-Elem. and 1 principal-Elem.) say that exactly nothing has changed for them , their teachers, or the schools since Elva was taken away. They say that there is always someone to take their place. (much like the cartels losing a leader). Nothing changes for the better. :frusty:


You have to start somewhere. Arresting one head of one union isn't the end of the problem, it is the beginning of the solution. It may not be felt at the working level yet, but if Mexico continues to kick out people in high places for corruption, eventually things will get better.


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## AlanMexicali (Jun 1, 2011)

coondawg said:


> I disagree that Elva being incarcerated has made any difference in the Teaching Profession in Mexico. My 2 sources, relatives (1 teacher-Elem. and 1 principal-Elem.) say that exactly nothing has changed for them , their teachers, or the schools since Elva was taken away. They say that there is always someone to take their place. (much like the cartels losing a leader). Nothing changes for the better. :frusty:


I presume you haven´t read about the SEP educational reforms passed recently. It always takes time to incorporate laws here and so what if a couple of teahers see the same routine now, what does that prove? [a red added herring to the discussion?] What about later? Who knows if anyone new in the SNTE is embezzling teachers pension funds still. Do you? You seem to know about this happening.


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## coondawg (May 1, 2014)

AlanMexicali said:


> Who knows if anyone new in the SNTE is embezzling teachers pension funds still. Do you? You seem to know about this happening.


I can only tell you what has been told to me. They believe that nothing has changed at the top, and they have been in Mexico a lot longer than I have, and they believe that they are correct, until someone shows them that they are not. I hope you guys are correct, but I am afraid that I will not live long enough to see any real change. :fingerscrossed:
(Still would like to see a list of those found guilty and their sentence. Maybe that would tell the teacher and principal that there is hope.)
:behindsofa:


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