# Surinder Singh and EEA Family Permit



## amritkapoor (Nov 11, 2013)

Hi, 

I am a UK citizen and plan to get my spouse's parents in UK. I am a bit confused about EEA family permit and Surinder Singh route. Need some help 

With EEA Family permit, after doing the research - I came to know that parents and spouse parents are direct dependents and if you show them financially dependent, it should be reasonably easy to get an EEA family permit and entry into the UK.

Caveat in my case being that I am living in UK (and a UK citizen) and have to go to EEA country , work there for at least 3 months and then classify myself as EEA citizen

My queries and confusion are as follow:

1) Will 3 months be sufficient and do i need to register anywhere or follow any process to classify myself as EEA citizen while I am in EEA country (Germany in my case)?
2) Moving to UK and then bringing back your dependents was categorised as Surinder Singh route, in which "Surinder Singh" took the spouse route. My assumption is that it can be used for all dependents as per EEA family permit rules. Please confirm
3) My spouse parents are financially dependent, as my husband send them regular monies on monthly basis via bank transfer. While filing for their EEA family permit, do they need to be located somewhere specific i.e. with me in EEA country? India (where they originally live)? or can they even be in UK travelling on a visitor visa (potentially living with my spouse) and can they file the EEA family permit from UK itself? 
4) Where do I need to be located while they file for EEA family permit? Do i need to be in EEA country or can I be in UK? Also, If i need to be in EEA country, can I return to UK after the application is filed or have to be there until the final decision?
5) How long does the overall process take ? and if someone can briefly explain the process, it will be greatly appreciated

Apologies for asking multiple queries but will be really good if anyone can provide their suggestion and feedback


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

It won't be straightforward and UKBA will try to deny issuing EEA family permit to your in-laws. As a minimum, they have to stay with you in Germany throughout your employment there, with official residence permit (as visa nationals, they need Schengen visa to enter Germany, which they convert into residence permit after arrival). They have to apply in Germany using your employment record. You don't have to be in Germany when they apply. The trickiest part is convincing them about financial dependence since they live in India and your husband in UK.


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## amritkapoor (Nov 11, 2013)

Thanks Joppa for a quick reply.

I will try and add the steps that we plan to follow with the related queries. Will really appreciate if you can suggest and reply if am on the right track please

1.	I will move to Germany and will rent an apartment for 3 months (minimum) so that my children (4 years and 1 year) along with my parents-in-law can come and stay along with me in Germany. My husband may also join and stay in Germany with us to show that we have all moved and are settled in Germany

2.	My parents-in-law will travel to Germany on Schegen tourist visa to Germany and will live with me in the same apartment

3.	My parents-in-law will file for a residence permit as soon as they enter Germany to avoid any illegal stay and help in EEA Family Permit application

4.	After about 3 months of stay, apply for EEA family permit for my parents-in-law at UK embassy in Germany

5.	After getting the entry in UK and EEA family permit, then complete EEA2 form, which would give them 5 years residency in UK

6.	After 5 years in UK, and not being out of UK for more than 180 days in any 12 months, they should be granted permanent residence in UK.

My queries are as follows:

A.	Will I have to be working for a German organisation or can I be deputed or seconded to Germany for this period. In other words, I am resident in Germany but get the salary from UK organisation in my UK bank account. Will this work?

B.	Once I have spent 3 months+ in Germany, do I need to register somewhere for exercising my treaty rights and convert myself to EEA citizen instead of British citizen? What is the process?

C.	My parents-in-law will file for residence permit in Germany after their travel on schengen tourist visa. What is the process for getting this permit and how long does it take?

D.	My parents-in-law have shown finances earlier, as they have been to UK on visitor visa. Their last visit was in 2011 whereas their visa was valid till March ‘2012. Can this create a problem, as now we will be showing them totally dependent on us for EEA family permit or am I thinking a lot?

E.	For financial dependency –Both my father and mother-in-law are not employed and does not receive any pension or benefit whatsoever. My husband has been sending the monies on monthly basis for last 5 years. This is done from his Indian account to my in-laws’ Indian account. Will this be fine, as we are part of same household? Or should we now start the transfer from my UK account direct to their Indian account and show these transactions for financial dependency? This will delay the overall process but if required can start it on an immediate basis


Thanks again for all your help

Cheers


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## amritkapoor (Nov 11, 2013)

amritkapoor said:


> Thanks Joppa for a quick reply.
> 
> I will try and add the steps that we plan to follow with the related queries. Will really appreciate if you can suggest and reply if am on the right track please
> 
> ...


Any help and suggestions will be appreciated

Thanks


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

A. You need to be working or self-employed in Germany. Secondment from UK will probably not work - you really need to be employed - with contract, on payroll etc in Germany - by a German subsidiary or entity. 
B. Nothing of that kind needed.
C. Usually apply at the nearest foreigners' office (Ausländeramt). Shouldn't take too long. A few weeks?
D. I don't think that matters.
E. This is the biggie. The guidance states that without financial support they would be destitute, not just unable to maintain a particular standard of living. Expect Home Office to delve deeply into their circumstances before any decision.


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## amritkapoor (Nov 11, 2013)

Thanks Joppa for your reply.

Regarding the financial dependency, as that seems to the critical and important one.

My in-laws (both father and mother) do not have any job in India and is solely dependent on the monies sent by us on Monthly basis. Point will be how do I prove this dependency ? 

As of now we are sending the monies on monthly basis from my husband' bank account in India to their bank account (in India) for last 5 years. Would this be sufficient to prove ? or should we be looking and considering other things to strengthen our application? 

Would a direct transfer from UK account to India account be a better option or does it not matter that much?

Request you to advise about the above. 

I am assuming that we would need to show and prove the above dependency while filing for the residence permit in Germany as well? Would that be any easier? 

On a different note, have you experienced or heard about EEA and SS route to be successful for the parents. I tried searching a lot on this and other forums but was not able to find a single instance 

Thanks


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

I don't have any experience of helping parents or in-laws through Surinder Singh application. The thing is, there is very little guidance given about how they assess such applications. Someone recently made a freedom of information request for disclosure of internal UKBA guidelines on Surinder Singh, but it was turned down for being not in public interest. 

In your particular case, they would argue why, if your husband has been successfully supporting them in India, they now need to move to UK. Your case would be stronger if your husband and in-laws had been living together for a good period of time, being supported by him, and now that he would be moving to UK, would want to bring them to UK.


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## amritkapoor (Nov 11, 2013)

Thanks Joppa.

Just to clarify that me, my husband and our children live together in UK (for last 6-7 years) whereas my in-laws live in India. The only complication being that instead of direct transfer from UK, he transfer the monies from his account in India on monthly basis (to which he transfer the monies from his UK account as lumpsum on need basis)

What else can be the proof or evidence to show that they are wholly financially dependent on us? and do we need to prove this dependency for the residence permit in Germany as well?

co-incidentally, i have also raised a request as part of FOI for Surinder Singh route and is waiting for the answer from UKBA/Home Office. Will update in the forum in case i get a positive reply (which i doubt)


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Have you read my reply? I answered most of your points.
How he transfer funds isn't important.
The weakest part of your application is they live in India and you live in UK, and have done so for a number of years.
They would ask why they need to move to UK now?


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## amritkapoor (Nov 11, 2013)

A very valid point Joppa; understand the difficulty in my application now. Thanks

Parents are actually not keeping well with one having severe arthritis and other severe asthma. They also had few operations for some other medical conditions and it was very difficult to manage them being alone in India.

Will it be good to also provide the medical history and the need of increasing dependency due to their health along with the proof of financial dependency? 

This route was the only hope, as UK have recently changed the rules in adult dependent rules and is now virtually impossible to get that visa. Would you suggest any other route or reckon that this is worth taking a chance?

Apologies, I am asking a lot of queries of which possibly for some you may not be aware .. but i am really a bit lost now .. and any suggestion will be much appreciated

Thanks


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

In the absence of hardly any information of how Home Office assess Surinder Singh applications, esp involving people other than spouse/partner and children, I can't offer much more insight. I know it's one of those areas that the government would want to close the door without contravening European directives.


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## dtm1 (Feb 18, 2014)

Hi Amrit,

I was reading through your thread. I am currently in the same scenario, looking to bring my parent through the SS route to the UK. I have moved an work now int he Netherlands. 
I wondered what decision you made with regards to your in-laws- have you started the process yet or did you decide against it? Would be grateful for your reply.


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## vkjainuk (Apr 23, 2014)

Hi Amrit,

I am in similar situation. Have you started the process or got more clarity on the steps needed to follow.

Thanks


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

With the tightening Surinder Singh regulations since the new year, it's going to be very difficult to bring in extended family members through Surinder Singh.


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## fergie (Oct 4, 2010)

I should Imagine that with the growing numbers of uk's own elderly, and lack of enough resources to look after them, UKBA will be reluctant to allow elderly from other countries to add to the problem, whether they come in by the SS route or not.
Services in UK are stretched to the limit for care of the elderly, without adding extra ones from other countries, to drain the services further, which they would eventually do, at tax payers expense.


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