# Move to Toronto



## marmig0697 (Nov 26, 2009)

Hello to all, 

I currently reside in South Florida and may be taking a job in Toronto with my current company. Before I make that final decision in taking this Job and moving my family which consist of my wife and 2 boys (9 and 6), I would like to get more information about Toronto. Can anyone provide information between the cost of living difference between South Florida and Toronto. On average, what would be the % increase that should be factored in order to have a compatible lifestyle in Toronto. I currently own a home in South Florida but will proabably rent for the first year in Toronto. What kind of taxes will I face in Toronto. How is the school system in Ontario compared to South Florida. Should I expect a better school system in Toronto. My wife is a school teacher in Florida, would she be able to teach in Toronto and how is the process. 

Would definitely appreciate if anyone can assist me in gathing information so I can make a sound decision. 

Thank you.


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## Auld Yin (Mar 10, 2009)

marmig0697 said:


> Hello to all,
> 
> I currently reside in South Florida and may be taking a job in Toronto with my current company. Before I make that final decision in taking this Job and moving my family which consist of my wife and 2 boys (9 and 6), I would like to get more information about Toronto. Can anyone provide information between the cost of living difference between South Florida and Toronto. On average, what would be the % increase that should be factored in order to have a compatible lifestyle in Toronto. I currently own a home in South Florida but will proabably rent for the first year in Toronto. What kind of taxes will I face in Toronto. How is the school system in Ontario compared to South Florida. Should I expect a better school system in Toronto. My wife is a school teacher in Florida, would she be able to teach in Toronto and how is the process.
> 
> ...


You mention a comparable lifestyle. Without knowing your present lifestyle that would be virtually impossible information to provide. For a decent middle-class lifestyle in Toronto you would need income(s) of Can$100k minimum. That wouldn't leave a lot of room for savings or expensive vacations etc. Rent for a 3 bedroom home in a nice community will set you back $2-2500 p/m. Federal/Provincial taxes and other deductions will be around 25% of your income. There is also realty taxes and sales taxes of 13%
Ontario is regarded as having one of the best school systems anywhere so that should not be of concrn to you. For your wife to teach she would require to have her qualifications evaluated by the authorities here. Teachers are not in great demand here so, if she could get a position, the chances are it would be on a supply basis only until a permanent one became available.
If you have lived in the northern US States then you will have an idea of our climate here, although Toronto is not as severe as Buffalo (2 hours away)
Best of Luck.


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## marmig0697 (Nov 26, 2009)

Auld Yin said:


> You mention a comparable lifestyle. Without knowing your present lifestyle that would be virtually impossible information to provide. For a decent middle-class lifestyle in Toronto you would need income(s) of Can$100k minimum. That wouldn't leave a lot of room for savings or expensive vacations etc. Rent for a 3 bedroom home in a nice community will set you back $2-2500 p/m. Federal/Provincial taxes and other deductions will be around 25% of your income. There is also realty taxes and sales taxes of 13%
> Ontario is regarded as having one of the best school systems anywhere so that should not be of concrn to you. For your wife to teach she would require to have her qualifications evaluated by the authorities here. Teachers are not in great demand here so, if she could get a position, the chances are it would be on a supply basis only until a permanent one became available.
> If you have lived in the northern US States then you will have an idea of our climate here, although Toronto is not as severe as Buffalo (2 hours away)
> Best of Luck.



Thank you for your reply, I appreciate your input as this is a big step for my family and I. Compatible lifestyle would be middle class, own a home, 2 cars, occassional dining out (once a week), taking kids to children events, yearly vacations. I won't be buying a home too soon but will like to rent one. The salary amount and the rent you state should be a big help in deciding to take the job and in negotiating a salary with my employer.
As I read more and more, I definitely hear the same thing that the Ontario school system is one of the best. That is comforting to hear.
We are anticipating for my wife not to work for the 1st year that we are in Toronto. This should give her some time to get her qualifications in order. Do you or anyone else know what she would need to do in order for her qualifications to be evaluated?
My wife and I are originally from New York City so we know of the cold, though I guess it is colder in Toronto then it is in NYC. We have been living in Florida for the last 9 years, so our blood has thinned and 50° F is very cold for us
We will get used to it, hopefully the boys will too and they will find the cold weather fun as I used to growing up in NYC. Though we did not get a lot of Snow, it was fun when we did.
As far as commuting, I hear Toronto has public transportation. Is it advisable to use public transportion or drive when commuting to work and home. I remember communting to work in NYC during the winter. It was really bad since I lived right by the beach. Is it advisable to drive instead of taking public transportation since I am so afraid of the cold?

Again, thanks for your reply.


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## Auld Yin (Mar 10, 2009)

marmig0697 said:


> Thank you for your reply, I appreciate your input as this is a big step for my family and I. Compatible lifestyle would be middle class, own a home, 2 cars, occassional dining out (once a week), taking kids to children events, yearly vacations. I won't be buying a home too soon but will like to rent one. The salary amount and the rent you state should be a big help in deciding to take the job and in negotiating a salary with my employer.
> As I read more and more, I definitely hear the same thing that the Ontario school system is one of the best. That is comforting to hear.
> We are anticipating for my wife not to work for the 1st year that we are in Toronto. This should give her some time to get her qualifications in order. Do you or anyone else know what she would need to do in order for her qualifications to be evaluated?
> Your wife should contact the Ontario College of Education College Staff - The Ontario College of Teachers
> ...


Much good wishes and please ask more questions if needed.


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## marmig0697 (Nov 26, 2009)

Auld Yin said:


> Much good wishes and please ask more questions if needed.


Thank you Auld Yin.

The office is located in Concord, ON off Langstaff road. I know the commute time will depend on where I end up living, but does this area have bad rush hour? Are there decent areas to live close to this vacinity with good school systems? How far is this Concord, ON to downtown Toronto.

I spoke to someone and they mention that there are many underground train system where you can assess many areas through the underground. Is this true and if so this would help out in the cold.

On the school system, are children required to take up French in the Ontario system?

Thanks a bunch for answering my inquiries.


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## Auld Yin (Mar 10, 2009)

marmig0697 said:


> Thank you Auld Yin.
> 
> The office is located in Concord, ON off Langstaff road. I know the commute time will depend on where I end up living, but does this area have bad rush hour? Are there decent areas to live close to this vacinity with good school systems? How far is this Concord, ON to downtown Toronto.There is plenty of good housing surrounding this area so finding somewhere close to work will not be difficult. If you do this your commute would be no more than 30 minutes but could be considerably less. Good schooling is available. To downtown Toronto would be about 45-60 minutes outside rush hour by car. By public transit about 1.25 hours.
> 
> ...


Continued good luck with your decision.


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## marmig0697 (Nov 26, 2009)

Auld Yin said:


> Continued good luck with your decision.


Thanks, 

what is the average rent for a 4 bedroom home in the Concord Area. And what are the average sales price for equivalent home?

How is the car insurance? On average, what should I expect to pay for 2 cars? Will my US driver's licence automatic get me a driver's license in Ontario?

Thanks for your help.


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## Auld Yin (Mar 10, 2009)

marmig0697 said:


> Thanks,
> 
> what is the average rent for a 4 bedroom home in the Concord Area. And what are the average sales price for equivalent home?
> 
> ...


I would expect tp pay C$2500-3500p/m for a decent property. This would/should include realty taxes but not utilities. In that area (City of Vaughan) a good 4 bedroom home would be C$350-500K and up).

Car insurance in Ontario is expensive. For two cars I pay about $2000 annually which does not include usage for work. 
Yes, you can just do a straight exchange for your US licence.

I can appreciate this must be a difficult decision for you and your family. Having been to Florida many times I imagine that moving here would be quite the change. Many people here claim they couldn't live in the heat all year round but Florida is the first place most of think of when it's -20c here and/or there's a blizzard blowing. Before you make any decision is there a chance that you and your wife could do a quick 2-3 day reccie of the area. That might firm up your minds one way or the other.
Cheers.


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## joh (Dec 3, 2009)

If you could afford (or were used to) New York City then Toronto won't be a problem for you, stuff at the supermarket is slightly more expensive than America on average (and I think Florida was on the cheaper end of that spectrum). Rent gets cheaper the further from the core you get, but it's still reasonable in the center of Toronto (i think it's cheaper than most major American cities). Toronto isn't crazy like New York/London/Moscow/Tokyo or anything.

Having a car though is a pain since you get gouged on parking at every turn (the core city is very anti-car). And Canadian car insurance is pretty steep, especially in Toronto where they drive like maniacs. But it's still affordable, it won't ruin you. It's not uncommon for people to take the subway to work even though they have a car.. though I would be surprised to find anyone taking the bus instead of driving if you are off the subway route - you mention Concord, which is kind of the boonies, I lived near there once and I would say it's definitely a driving kind of area (you may not want to live too close to that area btw).

As for the cold - I actually find Toronto way too hot, you need an air conditioner in the summer, and the winter is at most rare light snow which turns to slush. Something to do with being near the lake I suspect.

Taxes - a 13% sales tax, and >$70,000 CAD/year = 40% tax bracket. This is really the only thing to factor in (convert take home pay to USD and compare) - I think you would find the cost of living to be otherwise run of the mill (vs America).

You can look at places to rent on the internet (i forget what you'd google - Toronto rentals or something).. it's the best way to look even if you were physically there.

Someone said $100K/year, New York/Moscow/Tokyo need $100K/year.. I'd say you are comfortable on $50K/year in Toronto (but of course it's relative and more is always better).

French - just one class.. not like having to learn math in French (unless you went with French immersion).



marmig0697 said:


> Thank you for your reply, I appreciate your input as this is a big step for my family and I. Compatible lifestyle would be middle class, own a home, 2 cars, occassional dining out (once a week), taking kids to children events, yearly vacations. I won't be buying a home too soon but will like to rent one. The salary amount and the rent you state should be a big help in deciding to take the job and in negotiating a salary with my employer.
> As I read more and more, I definitely hear the same thing that the Ontario school system is one of the best. That is comforting to hear.
> We are anticipating for my wife not to work for the 1st year that we are in Toronto. This should give her some time to get her qualifications in order. Do you or anyone else know what she would need to do in order for her qualifications to be evaluated?
> My wife and I are originally from New York City so we know of the cold, though I guess it is colder in Toronto then it is in NYC. We have been living in Florida for the last 9 years, so our blood has thinned and 50° F is very cold for us
> ...


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## Auld Yin (Mar 10, 2009)

Someone said $100K/year, New York/Moscow/Tokyo need $100K/year.. I'd say you are comfortable on $50K/year in Toronto (but of course it's relative and more is always better).

For a family of 4, it would be extremely tight trying to live on $50k annually in the GTA,


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## marmig0697 (Nov 26, 2009)

Auld Yin said:


> I would expect tp pay C$2500-3500p/m for a decent property. This would/should include realty taxes but not utilities. In that area (City of Vaughan) a good 4 bedroom home would be C$350-500K and up).
> 
> Car insurance in Ontario is expensive. For two cars I pay about $2000 annually which does not include usage for work.
> Yes, you can just do a straight exchange for your US licence.
> ...




We will definitely will try to go their in the next month. If I take the Job I already mentioned to my employer that I won't physically move until June when the kids finish school. This will give me the opportunity to go there with the family a few times until we move. I will definitely make sure we go during January or February just to make sure we can take the cold.


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## marmig0697 (Nov 26, 2009)

Auld Yin said:


> Someone said $100K/year, New York/Moscow/Tokyo need $100K/year.. I'd say you are comfortable on $50K/year in Toronto (but of course it's relative and more is always better).
> 
> For a family of 4, it would be extremely tight trying to live on $50k annually in the GTA,


The salary will be just over $100K USD but I am thinking this will not be enough if I want to buy a house of at least 4 bedrooms. I have a 3,000 sf size home in Florida and I think an equivalent size home in Toronto will be about $500K USD. Renting an equivalent size home seems tough as well. If this is the case, I think a salary of $100K may not cut it. Would love for anyone to contradict me. I think I will feel more comfortable if a salary of $100K USD would be enough. 

Do homes come with basements in Toronto?


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## marmig0697 (Nov 26, 2009)

Auld Yin said:


> Someone said $100K/year, New York/Moscow/Tokyo need $100K/year.. I'd say you are comfortable on $50K/year in Toronto (but of course it's relative and more is always better).
> 
> For a family of 4, it would be extremely tight trying to live on $50k annually in the GTA,


I forgot to ask about the effective income tax rate. On a salary of $100K will I expect to take home $60K? Or are there deductions/exeptions you can take to lower the taxable income subject to the 40% tax rate?

Thanks.


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## Auld Yin (Mar 10, 2009)

marmig0697 said:


> The salary will be just over $100K USD but I am thinking this will not be enough if I want to buy a house of at least 4 bedrooms. I have a 3,000 sf size home in Florida and I think an equivalent size home in Toronto will be about $500K USD. Renting an equivalent size home seems tough as well. If this is the case, I think a salary of $100K may not cut it. Would love for anyone to contradict me. I think I will feel more comfortable if a salary of $100K USD would be enough.
> 
> Do homes come with basements in Toronto?


You know what they say? The three most important aspects of house buying are location, location, location. On the city's outskirts you get a lot of house for USD$500k, and most definitely at least 3000 s/f. I think you could find satisfactory housing for less than this. Yes, all homes have basements. Many people have "finished" the basements into large family recreation areas and of course this add substantially to the square footage of living space.
As far as USD$100k being enough, much depends on how large a mortgage you would be carrying.
As far as income taxes are concerned you would get deduction allowances for your wife and each child, so that always helps. You have IRA's in the States whereas in Canada they're called RRSP's, so depending on your income, you may use this as an tax reducing savings investments.


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## ColdBrit (Dec 8, 2009)

I moved to Toronto 6 weeks ago from London (UK) and find it more expensive. Property seems cheap. An hour down the road a 3000 sq ft house is CAD400k which would be 1.2 million an hour out of London but then I would not fancy that commute when the winter kicks in here. Our apartment is paid for with all bills but my wife and I cant get through a week on less than 1200. we eat out 3 times a week (no where fancy) and do drink most nights and get a fair few cabs (which are necessary if you dont have a car here). Am looking forward to the snow arriving so we can go skiing and I should imagine the summers are nice here and they dont seem to have the crime and gang culture here which is a big problem back home. We might go home after 6 months or we might stay (still undecided) but give me Florida any day!


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## Auld Yin (Mar 10, 2009)

ColdBrit said:


> I moved to Toronto 6 weeks ago from London (UK) and find it more expensive. Property seems cheap. An hour down the road a 3000 sq ft house is CAD400k which would be 1.2 million an hour out of London but then I would not fancy that commute when the winter kicks in here. Our apartment is paid for with all bills but my wife and I cant get through a week on less than 1200. we eat out 3 times a week (no where fancy) and do drink most nights and get a fair few cabs (which are necessary if you dont have a car here). Am looking forward to the snow arriving so we can go skiing and I should imagine the summers are nice here and they dont seem to have the crime and gang culture here which is a big problem back home. We might go home after 6 months or we might stay (still undecided) but give me Florida any day!


If you are spending $1200 weekly after accommodation costs then by the standards of most Torontonians you are living high off the hog. When you say "a fair few cabs" I suspect that runs into hundreds of $ per week.


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## marmig0697 (Nov 26, 2009)

ColdBrit said:


> I moved to Toronto 6 weeks ago from London (UK) and find it more expensive. Property seems cheap. An hour down the road a 3000 sq ft house is CAD400k which would be 1.2 million an hour out of London but then I would not fancy that commute when the winter kicks in here. Our apartment is paid for with all bills but my wife and I cant get through a week on less than 1200. we eat out 3 times a week (no where fancy) and do drink most nights and get a fair few cabs (which are necessary if you dont have a car here). Am looking forward to the snow arriving so we can go skiing and I should imagine the summers are nice here and they dont seem to have the crime and gang culture here which is a big problem back home. We might go home after 6 months or we might stay (still undecided) but give me Florida any day!



You guys must be living the high life. I definitely won't be spending this amount every week, more like every month on expense that does not include housing and utilities. I see us going out during the weekend and with 2 kids and no one to take care of the kids, going out by ourselves will be very few. I want a fairly reasonable size home which compares with ours here in Florid, but I do not want my commute to be this far. I have asked around and through this thread I am being informed that based on where the office is in Vaughan, the sourrounding areas are good live in. But further insight as to the best place to live around this area where the commute is not to long would be appreciated.


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## Auld Yin (Mar 10, 2009)

marmig0697 said:


> You guys must be living the high life. I definitely won't be spending this amount every week, more like every month on expense that does not include housing and utilities. I see us going out during the weekend and with 2 kids and no one to take care of the kids, going out by ourselves will be very few. I want a fairly reasonable size home which compares with ours here in Florid, but I do not want my commute to be this far. I have asked around and through this thread I am being informed that based on where the office is in Vaughan, the sourrounding areas are good live in. But further insight as to the best place to live around this area where the commute is not to long would be appreciated.


I think what we have here is a description of two distinctively different lifestyles. You are a family man with the responsibilities that entails. The OP and his wife, I suspect, are DINKS (double income, no kids), who are high income earners and able to live the downstyle lifestyle.
Being a suburban person for many years I much prefer that lifestyle, but to each his/her own.


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## marmig0697 (Nov 26, 2009)

Auld Yin said:


> I think what we have here is a description of two distinctively different lifestyles. You are a family man with the responsibilities that entails. The OP and his wife, I suspect, are DINKS (double income, no kids), who are high income earners and able to live the downstyle lifestyle.
> Being a suburban person for many years I much prefer that lifestyle, but to each his/her own.


Suburban lifestyle is what we are looking for and definitely enjoy Toronto as much and financially feasible as we can. Are there websites that give you information on Vaughan and the sourrounding areas as well as pictures and videos?


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## KenRobinson (Jan 11, 2009)

Auld Yin said:


> Someone said $100K/year, New York/Moscow/Tokyo need $100K/year.. I'd say you are comfortable on $50K/year in Toronto (but of course it's relative and more is always better).
> 
> I am a Canadian, living in Europe for the last 30 years. 3 years ago I moved back to Canada, Niagara, and found my memories must have been playing tricks. I also have extensive family in Florida, North and South. The reality of living in Canada, is that people walk around telling themselves what a great place it is, how there is no crime, the winters arent really so bad, the cost of living is reasonable etc. The truth is that most Canadians would head south if they could get visas, many would return to their original country of origin if they could get the money to go back, it is expensive even by European standards, violent crime is endemic, maybe not gun crime, but the migrants have brought it with them especially to Toronto, who you know and what you have is more important than who you are. Frankly, a much over hyped country. Why do you think that many comedians and television shows laugh at Canadians, because they are a pretty simple people. Lack of culture, only material values, and a desire to get out asap all contribute to this identity. I cant think of any reason to move to Canada unless you come from some third world country and are at the bottom of the food chain. Which is the where most immigrants are actually coming from, when they get turned down for the USA.


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## EVHB (Feb 11, 2008)

KenRobinson said:


> Lack of culture, only material values, and a desire to get out asap all contribute to this identity.


ROFL! It's pitty you don't speak/read Dutch, because if you would take a look at migration fora from Belgium and the Netherlands, the above are the exact reasons why lots of people would like to move out of Europe...

So you are busy moving back to Europe? Where are you planning to live?


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## Auld Yin (Mar 10, 2009)

KenRobinson said:


> Auld Yin said:
> 
> 
> > Someone said $100K/year, New York/Moscow/Tokyo need $100K/year.. I'd say you are comfortable on $50K/year in Toronto (but of course it's relative and more is always better).
> ...


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## marmig0697 (Nov 26, 2009)

KenRobinson said:


> Auld Yin said:
> 
> 
> > Someone said $100K/year, New York/Moscow/Tokyo need $100K/year.. I'd say you are comfortable on $50K/year in Toronto (but of course it's relative and more is always better).
> ...


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## Auld Yin (Mar 10, 2009)

marmig0697 said:


> KenRobinson said:
> 
> 
> > Wow, that was harsh. First negative comment i have heard. So far up to this one they have been positive. I am doing the move more for the job and the opportunity it offers, but obviously the Toronto way of life and lifestyle will weigh into the decision.
> ...


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## marmig0697 (Nov 26, 2009)

Auld Yin said:


> marmig0697 said:
> 
> 
> > I was tempted to respond to his comments in detail but decided he was trolling for an argumentative thread.
> ...


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## Auld Yin (Mar 10, 2009)

marmig0697 said:


> Auld Yin said:
> 
> 
> > Does Toronto regularly get tornados. Originally I did not thinks so but as I was searching for areas around the Vaughan area I saw that back in August there was a tornato that cuased some quite extensive damage and one death. Was this phenomenon a rare case?
> ...


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## chitesh_uae (Dec 11, 2009)

marmig0697 said:


> Hello to all,
> 
> I currently reside in South Florida and may be taking a job in Toronto with my current company. Before I make that final decision in taking this Job and moving my family which consist of my wife and 2 boys (9 and 6), I would like to get more information about Toronto. Can anyone provide information between the cost of living difference between South Florida and Toronto. On average, what would be the % increase that should be factored in order to have a compatible lifestyle in Toronto. I currently own a home in South Florida but will proabably rent for the first year in Toronto. What kind of taxes will I face in Toronto. How is the school system in Ontario compared to South Florida. Should I expect a better school system in Toronto. My wife is a school teacher in Florida, would she be able to teach in Toronto and how is the process.
> 
> ...


Hi,I am currently based in UAE,planing to movr to canada,can you advie on hoz living,school,job,housing in canada.I am automobile engineer & my wife is a kindergarten teacher.thanks


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## marmig0697 (Nov 26, 2009)

Auld Yin said:


> marmig0697 said:
> 
> 
> > There has been the occasional tornado hit parts of Ontario but believe me it is a much less common occurrence than hurricanes hitting Florida. I would say it is somewhat rare.
> ...


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## Auld Yin (Mar 10, 2009)

marmig0697 said:


> Auld Yin said:
> 
> 
> > Hello I am back, the offer has been finalized for me to move to Canada but before I accept the offer I had a few further question and hopefully someone can help. first, I think I asked before but can't recall the answer. The office will be in the Vaughan area of Langstaff road in Concord. I would be looking for a full house to rent with basement. How much will this cost to rent in the Vaughan area? Should I consider other areas instead of Vaughan?
> ...


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## NickZ (Jun 26, 2009)

Likely a French class.

Concord is mostly commerical. There are some homes but mostly offices and light factories.

Woodbridge to the west is more residental and much larger. Thornhill to the east is to. Woodbridge has a large Italian community. Thornhill a large Jewish one. So you can pick your favorite food -) Both are in the city of Vaughan.


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## Realcanadian (Jan 22, 2010)

Hi forum members....

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I look forward to be hearing from you folks!!!

Bash
+1-416-827-3615


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## EVHB (Feb 11, 2008)

Maybe the website of the Toronto School Board can be of any help to give you an idea:
Toronto District School Board - Parents
for exemple this (among other pages): School Matters


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## marmig0697 (Nov 26, 2009)

NickZ said:


> Likely a French class.
> 
> Concord is mostly commerical. There are some homes but mostly offices and light factories.
> 
> Woodbridge to the west is more residental and much larger. Thornhill to the east is to. Woodbridge has a large Italian community. Thornhill a large Jewish one. So you can pick your favorite food -) Both are in the city of Vaughan.


Thank you, scheduled to be there March 1st, and will be given corporate housing near the office which is good since it will allow me to do research into where I find permanent housing.


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