# Comparative living costs in Morelia



## Kaye

I'm relocating to Mexico from Vancouver, BC in September, hopefully as a semi-retired ESL teacher. Am seriously considering Morelia, but also Queretaro and wonder about cost of living in these areas compared to other similar sized Mexican cities. Will have a modest, but adequate living pension income without working. I'll be renting a modest 1-2 bedroom apartment, not buying and wonder what the range in cost of that might be, since it is a major expense! Would want to be reasonably situated in relation to the Centro, though some bus travel would be OK. Thanks for any info' you can provide!


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## RVGRINGO

Welcome to the forum, Kaye. You ask a difficult question, since cost of living depends so much upon one's own lifesyle. Nevertheless, perhaps someone from Morelia can give you some suggestions. Of course, the best way to get an idea is to visit and explore rentals, grocery prices, etc. If you compare to the USA, it will be much more affordable.


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## Kaye

Thanks for this reply. I don't think I stated my question clearly. What I'm wondering is, is Morelia, in particular, considered 'more expensive' to live in than other cities of similar size, such as Cuernavaca? I would expect/hope costs would be less (for a given lifestyle) than in Guadalajara, for example or for 'expatriate communities' like Chapala and San Miguel de Allende. Wondered also how Queretaro would compare with Morelia? Other than broad comparisons on cities, one obviously can't say much about living costs as they apply to an individual person's lifestyle choices. Thanks again!


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## sparks

With the exception of tourist towns and expat communities .... you should be able to easily find a nice place for $3-4000 pesos a month. Even in those mentioned communities you can do the same with a little looking. Cuernavaca has some very fancy neighborhoods as well as do most larger towns. You just have to move over a few blocks


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## Kaye

Sparks, thanks for the focused reply on probable rental charges in Morelia. I've read that range given before, which tells me that higher inflation may not be impacting rents as yet. There's also the fact of rising demand due to those returning from the U.S. to Michoacan. Inflation plus the devalued Canadian dollar (about 20%) are two factors that could make relocation 'precarious' down the road. No crystal ball so ...time will tell! Sure enjoy these forums! Cheers!


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## HolyMole

Kaye said:


> Sparks, thanks for the focused reply on probable rental charges in Morelia. I've read that range given before, which tells me that higher inflation may not be impacting rents as yet. There's also the fact of rising demand due to those returning from the U.S. to Michoacan. Inflation plus the devalued Canadian dollar (about 20%) are two factors that could make relocation 'precarious' down the road. No crystal ball so ...time will tell! Sure enjoy these forums! Cheers!


Kaye: A low Canadian dollar relative to the US dollar isn't a problem in Mexico as long as you deal in pesos. In fact the C$ gets you about 10% more pesos than it did this time last year. If you rent or purchase from an American, then....yes...the low C$ will hurt. 

My wife and I were contemplating a trip to Panama as a retirement destination, but that was when the C$ was at par with the US$ last year....and since Panama uses the US $, it is now "out" as a potential retirement spot for these poor Canadians.


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## Kaye

Hello fellow Canucks: I've followed the Panama situation and the government's retirement policies appear to have changed dramatically. Rather 'fickle', I'd say. Trust you have found/will find a promising alternative. I see your point about the Canadian-US exchange rate not having the primary impact I'd attributed to it. I guess I'm expecting Mexican landlords to be thinking in terms of the present very favorable US exchange rate in pesos and consider me just another rich ****** del norte to whom the double standard in pricing would easily apply. Guess I'll just have correct such misperceptions as I hunt for housing - which means working harder on that Spanish! Does that seem reasonable? I do appreciate your perspectives - they broaden my own. Cheers!


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## sparks

Pesos are pesos ... and their value is what they buy here. Unless you are dealing with someone that lists in US dollars (agents) ... then I doubt the exchange rate will come into play. My rent has been the same for three years and has fluctuated from $410us to $290 depending on the exchange

The 14-15 exchange rate could easily be back to 11-12 in a few months ... so I'd probably plan on 10-11 for the long term


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## RVGRINGO

Not long ago, when looking at a hotel room in a very nice spa/restaurant/hotel, I asked the nice English speaking girl for the rate. She said, "Eighty nine dollars per night", and I responded, ¡Ay no, vivimos en Mexico y pensamos en pesos".(Oh no! We live in Mexico and we think in pesos) To which she immediately responded, "890 pesos, Señor." At today's exchange rate, that comes to about $63.50 USD; quite a difference.
Of course, in a hotel, one can always ask to see the government approved rate schedule, which is supposed to be posted, in pesos, for all to see; sometimes it isn't.


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## asegbert

I rented an apartment in Queretaro for $4500 pesos, and I definitely could've found cheaper. That got me in a really nice neighborhood just outside of the centro (I could walk to the centro and it was maybe 10 minutes to the edge, or take the bus for a couple minutes). My apartment was 2 bedrooms and one bathroom with a living room and dining area, and a small kitchen that included a refrigerator and small stove. It also had a small backyard section, although it was quite small and walled in, and covered in gravel instead of grass. It was already furnished too (which will make a big difference on prices). I had a queen bed, 2 twin beds, dining table, chairs, sofas, etc. The price also included utilities, but I didn't have telephone, tv, or internet (although it was possible to hook up and pay for separately). When I searched that semester (Spring 2007), I could find apartments from $2800 pesos on up with furniture, and non-furnished apartments in a similar price range (I only searched in reputable neighborhoods).

If you are worried about pricing, then I definitely recommend going to your destination and staying at a hotel while you hit up the classifieds. That's how I found my apartment the first time, and how I plan to get it when I go back to live there. Many of them give you a price in the newspaper, so there's no chance it will change. You could also get a native Mexican to call up any apartment listings without prices if you think they will be told a better rate!

I was just down in Queretaro earlier this month and got a newspaper. Here are a few of the apartments with prices listed: (fyi for the moderators - I'm not included the contact information for the renters, so it's not an advertisement  Just a pricing gauge!)

- Centro: historic apartment, 2 bedrooms with closets, equipped kitchen, parking space ($3400 pesos per month)
- Centro: 2 bedrooms with closet, dining room, gas, water, and stove ($3000 pesos per month)
- Centro: 3 bedrooms, 2 bathrooms, laundry room, upstairs, all services (including maintenance and water), one parking space ($5500 pesos per month)
- Centro: Small apartment with 1 bed ($1800 pesos per month)
- Centro: Single person or married without kids or pets, one bed ($2700 pesos per month)

And those are just the listings for the downtown. I'm sure they vary in size, location, and aesthetic beauty. There are endless options outside of downtown, and I'm sure they are somewhat cheaper. Getting around by bus is super easy though. From anywhere in Queretaro, it's 20 minutes max to the Centro on bus and that'd just be due to traffic and frequent stopping. A bike is another option (although be super careful of cars because biking is not that common along the roads there) and you'd get to the centro in 10 minutes from wherever you start in QRO.

I don't know about the cost comparison with Morelia, although I know that in general Queretaro is a wealthier city (with the influx from Mexico City after the earthquake), so I imagine that Queretaro is a bit more expensive. I think that Queretaro is generally safer though. My boyfriend's family lives in Queretaro but is from Morelia and they wouldn't let me visit Morelia last time I was there because of the dangers (although I consider them a little on the over-cautious side). I work with someone from Morelia who is equally as suspicious of the state though. Just a tip!


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## Kaye

asegbert - Thanks for your very informative, detailed reply! That gives me a good idea of rental costs in the area I'd prefer because I'd want to live more central. And yes, I imagine Queretaro is regarded as safer than Morelia, given the grenade-launching last September! I've heard there are drug problems in Morelia. I'll be driving down in September and will spend time in Queretaro for sure. Rather think I'll want to see how I feel about Morelia, too, as it has a marvellous music scene and hopefully chances for participation as an amateur musician. Still have to investigate that angle in regard to Queretaro. Both have climates that would suit me. Nice to have narrowed it down to two locations, to at least begin exploring. Thanks again.


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## Farmer Jo

*Vancouver, BC?*

Hi Kaye... Farmer Jo here... also living in Vancouver BC and interested in learning as much as I can about retiring in Mexico... I am totally new to this forum, so not sure yet how it all works (and i am a bit of a luddite)... i sent you a befriend thing... I have gathered up quite a bit of info (good links etc) that I could email you. Cheers, FJ


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## trefall123

Kaye,
I live outside Morelia about 40km. I asked some students regarding your questions. Here's what I got - 
Apartment 3500-4500 ps/mes for a nice 2 bedroom in a nicer area. Basic SKY 450 ps/mes. Basic Cablecom 240 ps/mes. Water for washing etc runs 15 ps/mes, drinking 18 ps for 20L. Electricity depends on usage of course figure 120-240 ps/mes. Food is a little more pricey but not much. Most of the fruit and veg comes from the big markets in Zamora in this area, better prices there. Still far less than you are accustomed to and has better taste. 
One thing about Morelia - about 10 days ago 5 people were shot in broad daylight. That's rare and noone innocent was involved but it's something to think about. I've never heard of Vancouver being a 'high crime' area 
Don't know a thing about Queretaro. My 2c


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## asegbert

Regarding the music scene in Morelia - you're so right that their art scene is huge there! I know there are art film festivals there, but other than that I don't know details. In regards to Queretaro, I don't think the art or music scene is as big, but it's a rapidly growing city and that means lots of changes and new additions too. Maybe opportunities to start something! When I was there last month, they were building something on the hill near the main bus terminal. When I asked my boyfriend what it was, he said it was Queretaro's upcoming "Montrose" (which is the artsy district here where I am in Houston). So ask about that when you go! My guess is that it'll be finished then. I wonder if that'll bring some more art in. It may be more of a museum area though - I'm really not sure yet. I know San Miguel is pretty huge on art, but I'm not sure how much of that is musical. It's about 40 minutes from Queretaro.

As for prices of other items, food ran me about 2/3 of the cost it is in the US. The produce is MUCH cheaper. There are less overall choices though. Instead of an aisle with 50 variety of chips, you get like 10. And I agree with the other poster...the produce tastes so much better. Avacados and mangos have an entirely different and amazing taste. Mmmm...that's a great thing about Mexico! Be careful with water and make sure you get the chemicals to properly clean your fruit (even stuff you will peel, because the knife touches the peel and then goes into the fruit).


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## Kaye

Hi asegbert,
You're a fountain of great information! I'm okay with less diversity in vegetables and fruit if the taste of those I get is good! 
Have just gained a temporary ESL teaching position until the end of June, working 4 evenings a week and so have to leave playing in my amateur community orchestra on Monday evenings. MUST replace that kind of thing in Mexico so I'll see what I can find out about Queretaro in regard to their music conservatory, etc. Am glad about this job, though, as it will help me get there! Cheers!
Thanks again.


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## Kaye

Trefall,
I was just re-reading the replies to my 'Morelia' question and saw your reply for the first time. I don't know how I missed it! Thanks so much for digging out that useful info' for me. The rental prices quoted are encouraging. About the violence - we have so many gang-related shootings here in Vancouver that Mexico - in the southern areas at least - just seems quiet by comparison! However, the truth is there are risks and one should know that. Thanks again!


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