# Exit strategy-do you have one?



## olivefarmer (Oct 16, 2012)

As per the title, have you got an exit strategy from your current position here in Spain?

Those of us working and perhaps maintaining a large property will need to move to a smaller property with less maintenance and perhaps single storey (knees) and nearer doctors, shops and public transport.

Even those retired will need to make some plans perhaps to take into account not being able to drive anymore.

How will you cope with the stagnant property market?.

What plans do you have?


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

olivefarmer said:


> As per the title, have you got an exit strategy from your current position here in Spain?
> 
> Those of us working and perhaps maintaining a large property will need to move to a smaller property with less maintenance and perhaps single storey (knees) and nearer doctors, shops and public transport.
> 
> ...


I rent..... & will continue to do so.....


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## 213979 (Apr 11, 2013)

We took advantage of the situation and bought. OH and I are just starting out and have no real exit strategy.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

elenetxu said:


> We took advantage of the situation and bought. OH and I are just starting out and have no real exit strategy.


actually for me it's not so much an 'exit from Spain' strategy, as a 'I won't need such a big house in a few years' strategy ..... 

maybe then, if I find the right place at the right price, I'll buy............ maybe......


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## Aron (Apr 30, 2013)

olivefarmer said:


> As per the title, have you got an exit strategy from your current position here in Spain?
> 
> Those of us working and perhaps maintaining a large property will need to move to a smaller property with less maintenance and perhaps single storey (knees) and nearer doctors, shops and public transport.
> 
> ...


We have no intentions of selling up. I take your point about getting older, but we live in a street with good neighbours, both Spanish and British and we help each other out when any problem arises.
We have discussed that very point you are making, but not an exit strategy as we love our home.


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## jimenato (Nov 21, 2009)

xabiachica said:


> I rent..... & will continue to do so.....


Absolutely. At the first hint of the violent revolution that's coming, we can put everything in the car and go.:rapture:


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

no exit Strategy still working on my entry strategy. tbh if i thought i needed an exit i would not be going x
caveat we know it may go wrong, but worry at the time


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## Aron (Apr 30, 2013)

jimenato said:


> Absolutely. At the first hint of the violent revolution that's coming, we can put everything in the car and go.:rapture:


Better go now whilst the going is good!


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## 90199 (Mar 21, 2010)

A coffin


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## 213979 (Apr 11, 2013)

jimenato said:


> Absolutely. At the first hint of the violent revolution that's coming, we can put everything in the car and go.:rapture:


Did I mention that my new house is in the middle of the mountains, fairly isolated? No more big cities for me.


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## Allie-P (Feb 11, 2013)

We only moved here in February. 

We are in our mid sixties & very aware that our future 'permanent' rental, will have to take into account our advancing years.......

We would never buy....fiscal circumstances in Spain are forever changing....thus ensuring a speedy exit


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## Aron (Apr 30, 2013)

Allie-P said:


> We only moved here in February.
> 
> We are in our mid sixties & very aware that our future 'permanent' rental, will have to take into account our advancing years.......
> 
> We would never buy....fiscal circumstances in Spain are forever changing....thus ensuring a speedy exit


Fiscal circumstances are changing in every country, including the UK. I left there years ago, but I know I am better off in Spain right now as one of our children is an accountant.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Exit strategy? why would we want one of those? Only those who go by the dubious title of "expat" who will only stay until the wind changes need those. 

We are immigrants which means that this is our new home and have no need to go somewhere else nor do we intend to. We own our own property, which may or may not be worth as much as when we bought it, which doesn't matter because we have no intention of selling or leaving. 

As for using creaking joints as an excuse - rubbish! This village is all hills and a large part of the population is over 80, they suffered rickets due to malnutrition in their childhood but the 90 year olds still go up and down those hills better than I can.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

baldilocks said:


> Exit strategy? why would we want one of those? Only those who go by the dubious title of "expat" who will only stay until the wind changes need those.
> 
> We are immigrants which means that this is our new home and have no need to go somewhere else nor do we intend to. We own our own property, which may or may not be worth as much as when we bought it, which doesn't matter because we have no intention of selling or leaving.
> 
> As for using creaking joints as an excuse - rubbish! This village is all hills and a large part of the population is over 80, they suffered rickets due to malnutrition in their childhood but the 90 year olds still go up and down those hills better than I can.


You are possibly more of an exception than the rule tho Baldi. You have married a Spanish lady and have been able to integrate and become established over the years - something that many new folk arent able to do. 

Jo xxx


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

jojo said:


> You are possibly more of an exception than the rule tho Baldi. You have married a Spanish lady and have been able to integrate and become established over the years - something that many new folk arent able to do.
> 
> Jo xxx


I think there are a lot like Baldy. Most of the Brits I know have been here for many decades, some since the 1960s! 
We don't intend to move anywhere apart from a smaller property. We live comfortable but modest lifestyles and frankly can foreee nothing which would dent that. We have two incomes plus capital and could if needs be live on one income.
If we had thought that we would have to watch every cent we'd have stayed home.
As I see it, retiring to Spain is a privilege not a human right and like Faberge eggs, Cartier diamonds and Rolls Royces is not for those who can't afford it.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

jojo said:


> You are possibly more of an exception than the rule tho Baldi. You have married a Spanish lady and have been able to integrate and become established over the years - something that many new folk arent able to do.
> 
> Jo xxx


Are you trying to start WWIII? Spanish? - she is a Colombian and I had to go all the way there to find her 23½ years ago. Hearing some of the posters who come on here, I *am* "the exception rather than the rule" in that I did lots of research into *all* aspects of our move before we took the big step so we were 99.9% certain that what we were doing, where we were doing it and why, was right.

As for the integration bit, SWMBO will tell you that her ability to speak Spanish had little to do with it, it was my (with my limited Spanish) making the effort to greet everybody I met with "Hola! Buena día!" (this is Andalucía and, in particular, they speak Castillero here which means they drop off even more word endings). I still get the odd person who comes up to me and comments about my being friendly and speaking to him/her. I have noticed that several of those don't speak to/aren't spoken to by other people. One of the first people to comment on my being open and friendly was one of the Policía Local who stopped me in the street one day to say "Welcome to the village". Another person (a former alcalde) said we were now officially members of the village after we had been to the wake of the mother of one of our neighbours (BTW we never knew the mother).

Other Brits/Dutch/Germans just put their heads down, eyes averted and rush past, terrified that they will be caught up in a conversation in Spanish which they can't speak. Of course, knowing that they are Brits/Dutch/Germans and fortunately being able to greet them in their own languages I always speak to them in ........
.
.
.
.
.
.
..
.
.
.
.
Spanish, of course!


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## 213979 (Apr 11, 2013)

jojo said:


> You are possibly more of an exception than the rule tho Baldi. You have married a Spanish lady and have been able to integrate and become established over the years - something that many new folk arent able to do.
> 
> Jo xxx


Here's another exception to the rule here. I also think I have more work here than I would have in the US. However, that's due to hard work and the reputation I have earned. Last year I sent out 10 resumes in the States while we were seriously considering moving. I didn't hear back from anyone.


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

Please let me be the new exception to the rule............


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## 213979 (Apr 11, 2013)

Welcome to the club


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

baldilocks said:


> Are you trying to start WWIII? Spanish? - she is a Colombian and I had to go all the way there to find her 23½ years ago. Hearing some of the posters who come on here, I *am* "the exception rather than the rule" in that I did lots of research into *all* aspects of our move before we took the big step so we were 99.9% certain that what we were doing, where we were doing it and why, was right.
> 
> As for the integration bit, SWMBO will tell you that her ability to speak Spanish had little to do with it, it was my (with my limited Spanish) making the effort to greet everybody I met with "Hola! Buena día!" (this is Andalucía and, in particular, they speak Castillero here which means they drop off even more word endings). I still get the odd person who comes up to me and comments about my being friendly and speaking to him/her. I have noticed that several of those don't speak to/aren't spoken to by other people. One of the first people to comment on my being open and friendly was one of the Policía Local who stopped me in the street one day to say "Welcome to the village". Another person (a former alcalde) said we were now officially members of the village after we had been to the wake of the mother of one of our neighbours (BTW we never knew the mother).
> 
> ...



Oooopss, Columbian - sorry lol!!!! You are right tho, it is down to careful planning and of course an income that is established before moving. Spain is a great country, I know that more than anyone, and finances and family aside, I would have been more than happy and capable of settling down and not needing an exit strategy. However, I feel as things are economically right now, its a sensible precaution to have something to fall back on, thats safe and familiar - certainly until you are really established and that takes time. 


I have to say that because my husband was overly cautious, we had our safety net in the UK. I often wonder what would have happened had we have sold up and moved "lock stock and barrel"??? We would have had to have made it work!! But if that hadnt been possible, I fear we would be in a terrible mess financially and emotionally right now!?

Jo xxx


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

jojo said:


> Oooopss, Columbian - sorry lol!!!!
> Jo xxx


Double OOOOOOOOOOPPPPPPPPS it is Col*o*mbian not Columbian.

There is the other side of the coin, that if you do sell up and move lock stock and barrel, you do have more of an incentive to make it work. If you have in the back of your mind that there is a safety net that you can resort to, if the going gets tough or it's not quite as easy as you thought then you won't make that extra bit of effort.

We still get those who have made no proper planning or researches. Just today we have "We've sold our house in #### and are moving in August. What do we need to know?" or words to that effect.


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## 90199 (Mar 21, 2010)

jojo said:


> You are possibly more of an exception than the rule tho Baldi. You have married a Spanish lady and have been able to integrate and become established over the years - something that many new folk arent able to do.
> 
> Jo xxx


I haven't married a Spanish lady, my goodness if I was 50 years younger and single........................


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Hepa said:


> I haven't married a Spanish lady, my goodness if I was 50 years younger and single........................


Don't take me down that road...


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## Sirtravelot (Jul 20, 2011)

It should be Spain, not Africa.

"GONNA TAKE A LOT TO TAKE ME AWAAAAAY FROM YOUUUU
THERE'S NOTHING A HUNDRED MEN OR MORE COULD EVER DO
I BLESS THE RAINS DOWN IN SPAAAAAAIIINNNN
GONNA TAKE SOME TIME TO DO THE THINGS WE NEVER HAAA-AAA-AAAVE!"

That should be the official song for this forum.


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## XTreme (May 17, 2008)

And here's how I'd sum Britain up......no change of lyrics needed!

If ever there was a prophecy this was it! 

_We'll be fighting in the streets
With our children at our feet
And the morals that they worship will be gone
And the men who spurred us on
Sit in judgement of all wrong
They decide and the shotgun sings the song

There's nothing in the street
Looks any different to me
And the slogans are replaced, by-the-bye
And the parting on the left
Is now the parting on the right
And the beards have all grown longer overnight

I'll tip my hat to the new constitution
Take a bow for the new revolution_


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## thrax (Nov 13, 2008)

I rule the exceptions....


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

XTreme said:


> And here's how I'd sum Britain up......no change of lyrics needed!
> 
> If ever there was a prophecy this was it!
> 
> ...


Very profound!!

Jo xxx


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Sirtravelot said:


> Toto - Africa (official video) - YouTube
> 
> It should be Spain, not Africa.
> 
> ...


 

Just seeing this made me cry!!!* YES, YES, YES!!!* Toto are one of my favourite bands and the number of times I used to play that song when we lived in Spain - I cant bare to listen to it now.

Jo xxxx


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

baldilocks said:


> Double OOOOOOOOOOPPPPPPPPS it is Col*o*mbian not Columbian.
> 
> There is the other side of the coin, that if you do sell up and move lock stock and barrel, you do have more of an incentive to make it work. If you have in the back of your mind that there is a safety net that you can resort to, if the going gets tough or it's not quite as easy as you thought then you won't make that extra bit of effort.
> 
> We still get those who have made no proper planning or researches. Just today we have "We've sold our house in #### and are moving in August. What do we need to know?" or words to that effect.



I'm blonde baldy, dont expect too much from me lol!!!!!!!!

I think everyones situation is different tho and sometimes, the insentive to stay isnt just down to one person. When you have a family you have to go with the majority and certainly in my case, I had a husband who simply had to commute for work, I had a teenage daughter who hated Spain with a passion and a son, who liked it, but didnt want to stay. We did look at the option of me living in Spain and the family moving back but visiting, but it wasnt really a good alternative, so I had to make the sacrifice - and be grateful that we hadnt burnt our bridges.

The forum is a good place to start research tho. So these questions are worthy and deserve a reply IMO.

Jo xxx


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## StevejR1 (May 21, 2013)

We are contemplating moving to Spain, and are currently in the process of doing all the research and generally 'summing up the situation'

I would love to move there, but I'm well aware of the enormity of moving abroad (anywhere) so I'm trying to gather as much information to make sure the decision we make is balanced, and hopefully the right one.

Having gone through the euphoria of thinking about it, the fear, then the dread, then the fact of how daunting it can seem.....but I still feel it would be a good move for us..and I'm no gambling man!

My partner would like a safety net, or escape route, to the UK though, even if it's for a short period until we feel sufficiently settled.

As I see it there are a few options, and some shortcomings.

1. We rent our house in the UK, then rent in Spain long term. This ticks a lot of boxes, but to me a long term rental doesn't offer any commitment to the move. I'm happy to rent short term, as I think that's what we'd do for the first 6/12 months regardless. But I'd want to feel I'd moved, and actually lived in Spain not just rented.

2. Sell our UK house, but rent long term in Spain. I've mentioned my reservations to long term rental, but my other fear would where would you keep a large amount of money safely?

Both of these options let you just leave at short notice if necessary.

3. Sell or rent the UK property....and buy a cheaper property in Spain with savings, with an income from the UK rent. Or if selling, buying a cheaper property, but not tying up all the capital in a house purchase.

This option lets you return, but with less of a burden of tied up capital in a property to sell.

Personally I'd prefer to do my research, decide if I want to do it, rent for 6 months, then if it works out then I'd buy. If after doing all that perpetration you still want to stay then I can't see why you need an escape route?

The only fly in the ointment is civil unrest/uncertainty that a poster mentioned earlier....that worries me...but I can assure you things aren't much better in the UK at the moment, but I'd be interested to how likely civil unrest would be???


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## ricardoylucia (Dec 1, 2009)

Here 10 years..
We have had and are still having many, many more downs than ups and we are still here..
We love Spain and the Spanish are in general very friendly..
We would love to move from our petite village of Sabariego and move into a town..
We do not have any neighbours, but the locals are friendly and ever so helpful, when we have needed help..
Our speaking Spanish is very limited..We have tried.. 
One thing we do find, it is impossible to sell once you have bought somewhere..
Would we ever return to and live back in the UK? ...... to be honest no idea, but I doubt it now.

Richard x


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## Aron (Apr 30, 2013)

Steve.R said:


> We are contemplating moving to Spain, and are currently in the process of doing all the research and generally 'summing up the situation'
> 
> I would love to move there, but I'm well aware of the enormity of moving abroad (anywhere) so I'm trying to gather as much information to make sure the decision we make is balanced, and hopefully the right one.
> 
> ...


Never seen any civil unrest. I had a long conversation with Spanish neighbours the other day. They were very philosophical about the current problems. There was no arguing, just assessing the situation as they saw it. Life goes on where I live as it has done since I came here 9 years ago. We're into the fiesta season and it's a fun time to be in Spain.


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## Sirtravelot (Jul 20, 2011)

I wonder if Spain's gonna have a moment like Brazil is having just now?

Anyway, the exit strategy for us would probably be to move to Germany. Don't think we'd wanna move back to the UK. Germany has better weather and is, generally, cheaper than the UK.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

ricardoylucia said:


> Here 10 years..
> We have had and are still having many, many more downs than ups and we are still here..
> We love Spain and the Spanish are in general very friendly..
> We would love to move from our petite village of Sabariego and move into a town..
> ...


So despite the downs it's still been worth it?

What kind of downs? 
Things that could have been avoided?


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## Aron (Apr 30, 2013)

Sirtravelot said:


> I wonder if Spain's gonna have a moment like Brazil is having just now?
> 
> Anyway, the exit strategy for us would probably be to move to Germany. Don't think we'd wanna move back to the UK. Germany has better weather and is, generally, cheaper than the UK.


Brazilians are complaining about the amount of money spent on the Soccer World Cup and the Olympics. That is something different to Spain's problems. 

Germany has better summer weather, but much colder in winter and spring can be unpredictable.


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## peterinmalaga (May 27, 2013)

Life expectancy in Spain is the highest in Europe and Japan is the only country in the world with higher life expectancy. OK the house may be worth less now but everything else has gone down in price too - relative to my British pensions. Whenever I get itchy feet, I book a weekend trip to Berlin, Amsterdam, Istanbul or the UK. There are lots of nice places to visit but I'm always glad to get back to my home in Spain. The problem would be finding somewhere better to live, so why would I need an exit strategy?


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## peterinmalaga (May 27, 2013)

Sirtravelot said:


> I wonder if Spain's gonna have a moment like Brazil is having just now?
> 
> Anyway, the exit strategy for us would probably be to move to Germany. Don't think we'd wanna move back to the UK. Germany has better weather and is, generally, cheaper than the UK.


Many parts of Germany would have better weather than Scotland but on average England and Wales have better weather than most parts of Germany.
Ich habe schon 2 Jahre in Deutschland gelebt und das genuegt mir!


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## ricardoylucia (Dec 1, 2009)

Pesky Wesky said:


> So despite the downs it's still been worth it?
> 
> What kind of downs?
> Things that could have been avoided?


Being heard - living inland, you do need a good smattering of Spanish.
Being conned by British based estate agent; we paid through the nose in commission.
Being conned by British Estate Agents when we came over to view originally.
Trusting the wrong people - especially UK Expats; Spanish are much more honest, even with Mañana syndrome ....lol; - after 10 years, we now know who to trust - and it is not many people, especially UK expats.

Avoid other expats, especially the know-it-alls, as we have found they know nothing in the end.

The financial situation has hindered us in some ways as well, but you learn to live with it.. at least my pension goes a bit further that it would do in the UK.

As I said before, it is time for us to re-locate, but buyers are not around.


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## Nugget_Hound (Jun 13, 2013)

When you said exit strategy I thought you meant preparing for the inevitable bankruptcy of several large banks and the civil unrest that will surely follow, 3 large dogs, 30 chickens, massive veg patch and a house so remote you cant even get a signal on your mobile .


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

ricardoylucia said:


> Being heard - living inland, you do need a good smattering of Spanish.
> Being conned by British based estate agent; we paid through the nose in commission.
> Being conned by British Estate Agents when we came over to view originally.
> Trusting the wrong people - especially UK Expats; Spanish are much more honest, even with Mañana syndrome ....lol; - after 10 years, we now know who to trust - and it is not many people, especially UK expats.
> ...


Now you know why I'm always telling people that they're more likely to be ripped off by Brit than a Spaniard. The Brit has far fewer ties to where he is and can up sticks and away tomorrow with YOUR money, the Spaniard is likely to have family and other ties in the area so is more likely to still be here tomorrow.

"especially UK expats" - yes, they're the ones with an exit strategy. They want to get what they can out of Spain and if it doesn't suit or too many angry victims of their cons start to get to close, then they move and put their exit strategy into play.

The ones who don't have nor need an exit strategy because they aren't expats, are the immigrants who will still be here tomorrow because 'home' is here in Spain not the place they came from.


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## Sirtravelot (Jul 20, 2011)

ricardoylucia said:


> Avoid other expats, especially *the know-it-alls*, as we have found they know nothing in the end.



Oh lord, yes. Those who say know nothing, those who don't say know all. Or however that saying goes.


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## ricardoylucia (Dec 1, 2009)

baldilocks said:


> Now you know why I'm always telling people that they're more likely to be ripped off by Brit than a Spaniard. The Brit has far fewer ties to where he is and can up sticks and away tomorrow with YOUR money, the Spaniard is likely to have family and other ties in the area so is more likely to still be here tomorrow.
> 
> "especially UK expats" - yes, they're the ones with an exit strategy. They want to get what they can out of Spain and if it doesn't suit or too many angry victims of their cons start to get to close, then they move and put their exit strategy into play.
> 
> The ones who don't have nor need an exit strategy because they aren't expats, are the immigrants who will still be here tomorrow because 'home' is here in Spain not the place they came from.



Spain is our home, we have tried to fit it - for those who may not know or realise it, it is much harder to integrate in an area inland - I call our area inland, not somewhere 20 mins or 30 mins drive away from the coast...

As I said previously, all we want to do is re-locate, but if the buyers are not there, there is nothing much we can do...

I have met too many UK expats that have been duped by their own kind..... all it does is to give the rest of us, who want to live here, a bad name...

How was the Cherry Fiesta...did not go this year???

Richard


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

ricardoylucia said:


> Spain is our home, we have tried to fit it - for those who may not know or realise it, it is much harder to integrate in an area inland - I call our area inland, not somewhere 20 mins or 30 mins drive away from the coast...
> 
> As I said previously, all we want to do is re-locate, but if the buyers are not there, there is nothing much we can do...
> 
> ...


The Cherry festival was fine. The art teacher, since one of our professional artists wasn't going to exhibit this year, came round to borrow some of my late father-in-law's paintings for the exhibition since I haven't been doing any because of my eyes. As usual we got some wicked local cheese (Oveja, curado 1 año).

I'm about sick of cherries for this year we've been given about 27kg and I've eaten most of them.


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## JoCatalunya (Mar 16, 2011)

We don't have an exit strategy, though we have considered what we would do if things truly did go t1ts up. 

Our house whilst almost paid off isn't saleable as we do not have a Cedula d'Habilitilidad (Catalunya's get out of jail card for swindling the EU out of so much money it would make your eyes bleed looking at it all). Now we could I suppose fork out the thousands of euros it costs to get a Cedula but for what? Our house recently valued came out at 80,000 for insurance purposes, for sale purposes we would be lucky to get 50,000 in the current climate. We too live inland and what is more somewhat remote from the nearest village. We have no electric (save solar) no water, (save what we tanker in) and no sewage (save what goes into a tank) and the road is unmade up to our house. And whilst we have land this isn't what a great many people want.
My hubby now disabled is not capable of driving so he has to rely on me to get him everywhere, add to this he cannot learn to speak Spanish as he has memory retention problems due to brain damage so again he has to rely on me for this too. Obviously this is a worry for him and for me and whilst our son lives with us at present we cannot rely that he will always do so. 
Our house thankfully is all on one level, so I guess all is not so bad.


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

I came to Spain 9 years ago with my wife (whose mother is Spanish) and I am fully integrated, working fully in Spanish language and having very few ties to the UK.

I consider myself as an immigrant, Spain is now my home, my kids were born here, and I don't consider myself to be an exception. In Madrid you integrate or sink. 

But I'm still leaving.

Why? Because I can. Moving to Asia will be an expatriation from my home country (Spain) to a new country on a temporary basis.

I see no need to "remain faithful" to an ever worsening Spain when there is an opportunity to better my career, that of my wife, get my kids in an international school (which we could never afford in Spain) and enjoy a new experience.

After all, we've moved our life once from the UK to Spain, doing it again won't be so bad.

The down side is the fact that we still have an unsaleable flat in Madrid with a mortgage of nearly double what we can rent it for, so we will have to pay the difference every month, along with the 25% tax that the government will take off the rent we do get....


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## peterinmalaga (May 27, 2013)

Aron said:


> Never seen any civil unrest. I had a long conversation with Spanish neighbours the other day. They were very philosophical about the current problems. There was no arguing, just assessing the situation as they saw it. Life goes on where I live as it has done since I came here 9 years ago. We're into the fiesta season and it's a fun time to be in Spain.


Maybe Franco did too good a job?


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## peterinmalaga (May 27, 2013)

mrypg9 said:


> I think there are a lot like Baldy. Most of the Brits I know have been here for many decades, some since the 1960s!
> We don't intend to move anywhere apart from a smaller property. We live comfortable but modest lifestyles and frankly can foreee nothing which would dent that. We have two incomes plus capital and could if needs be live on one income.
> If we had thought that we would have to watch every cent we'd have stayed home.
> As I see it, retiring to Spain is a privilege not a human right and like Faberge eggs, Cartier diamonds and Rolls Royces is not for those who can't afford it.


According to EU law all citizens of the EU have the right to live in whichever European country they like. Since life in Spain is cheaper than in the UK, living here is almost a necessity for some retired people. I see living here as an option not as a privilege and many Spanish people who live in the UK have the same attitude to my home country: that's OK by me.


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## Aron (Apr 30, 2013)

peterinmalaga said:


> According to EU law all citizens of the EU have the right to live in whichever European country they like. Since life in Spain is cheaper than in the UK, living here is almost a necessity for some retired people. I see living here as an option not as a privilege and many Spanish people who live in the UK have the same attitude to my home country: that's OK by me.


I feel privileged to live amongst lovely people and a beautiful country. That has nothing to do with my rights, that is how I feel about living in Spain


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## David1979 (Feb 15, 2013)

Just out of curiosity, what happens if you don't have the required financial means that the Spanish Government ask for? Do they deport you?

Being an EU citizen provides "the right to move freely around the European Union and settle anywhere within its territory", doesn't it?


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## Aron (Apr 30, 2013)

David1979 said:


> Just out of curiosity, what happens if you don't have the required financial means that the Spanish Government ask for? Do they deport you?
> 
> Being an EU citizen provides "the right to move freely around the European Union and settle anywhere within its territory", doesn't it?


That's right, but within the EU there are certain laws and one is, you should have sufficient funds to support you so you are not a burden to the state. Unfortunately, many who live in Spain who are in that position stay beneath the radar so to speak. That is just the same as those that come to Spain with no intention of becoming residents even though they stay here for more than 6 months. If everyone stayed within the rules the system would be better off, but that is not going to happen!


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

David1979 said:


> Just out of curiosity, what happens if you don't have the required financial means that the Spanish Government ask for? Do they deport you?
> 
> Being an EU citizen provides "the right to move freely around the European Union and settle anywhere within its territory", doesn't it?


Xabiachica knows some people who had problems with the authorities as their paperwork wasn't all in order, but there are not many known cases of being "caught" it seems. If anybody else knows anything about this it would be interesting to know.

What is certain is that the EU can say what it likes, but if Spain decides X then X it is for the EU citizens involved. Yes, you can appeal, take it to the EU courts etc etc, but that doesn't help you if you're trying to do your paper work in Madrid/ Malaga/ Manresa in June 2013. As it stands Spain says you need money and healthcare to come and if you want to be here legally in the eyes of the Spanish government you'll have to conform.

If anyone decides to come with out those provisions in place you may run into difficulties with the authorities.

PS I do think it's very different for people who are going to be working here and/ or setting up their own business. I can't imagine how you'd have a half decent job or be able to get all the licences needed for a business without your papers. You might not get deported, but you wouldn't actually be able to do anything.


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## David1979 (Feb 15, 2013)

Pesky Wesky said:


> I do think it's very different for people who are going to be working here and/ or setting up their own business. I can't imagine how you'd have a half decent job or be able to get all the licences needed for a business without your papers. You might not get deported, but you wouldn't actually be able to do anything.


Yeah, that's why I'm asking. I've never been in that position and was just wondering.


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## peterinmalaga (May 27, 2013)

Aron said:


> I feel privileged to live amongst lovely people and a beautiful country. That has nothing to do with my rights, that is how I feel about living in Spain


For you, Aron, it seems, privileged = happy.
I have lived in the UK, Germany and Spain and have spent quite a lot of time in Italy and France too. I felt happy in all those places and found plenty of lovely people and beautiful places everywhere. But the country which has given me the greatest privileges is undoubtedly the UK, although Germany and France also offer many of the same privileges as the UK. Spain falls a little short for me in terms of privileges, because the social security system here leaves a lot to be desired. I am too old for the dole now, so am unaffected by the totally inadequate social security offered here, thank God, and I have every sympathy for those Spanish and other EU citizens who live in poverty.
The special things that make me happier here than in other European countries are the weather and the fact that life is much cheaper here. Oh, and of course the wine is better here too!


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## peterinmalaga (May 27, 2013)

David1979 said:


> Being an EU citizen provides "the right to move freely around the European Union and settle anywhere within its territory", doesn't it?


Yes except when it doesn't! And I don't mean that facetiously.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Xabiachica knows some people who had problems with the authorities as their paperwork wasn't all in order, but there are not many known cases of being "caught" it seems. If anybody else knows anything about this it would be interesting to know.
> 
> What is certain is that the EU can say what it likes, but if Spain decides X then X it is for the EU citizens involved. Yes, you can appeal, take it to the EU courts etc etc, but that doesn't help you if you're trying to do your paper work in Madrid/ Malaga/ Manresa in June 2013. As it stands Spain says you need money and healthcare to come and if you want to be here legally in the eyes of the Spanish government you'll have to conform.
> 
> ...


exactly - they weren't deported - & they were able to sort their paperwork out simply enough - one early retired couple had been here for years, own property, but had never 'got around' to registering as resident, nor submitted tax returns............

they were 'caught' because our local ayto is trying to get a true picture of who really lives here - there are a lot on the padrón who shouldn't be - & even more who should be but aren't - ( one urb in particular has no post & no street lights - but why on earth would they when no-one lives there...even though just about every house IS lived in all year round ... but that's another story) 

once they were registered, the first thing they said was - 'ooh .... now we can get free healthcare - we're resident.....'

well, no..... although if the HAD registered as resident when they should have, & done tax returns, then they would indeed be getting free healthcare now

so 'getting your paperwork in order' can have its advantages

*just because hundreds of thousands of people do it, it doesn't mean it's right or legal - & I won't encourage people to break the law

also - it's against forum rules to do so - so any further posts advocating not registering will be removed..............*


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## Pazcat (Mar 24, 2010)

I'd love to live in a world with no street lights. Bliss.

But that's me and I'm probably odd.

Sorry, continue.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Pazcat said:


> I'd love to live in a world with no street lights. Bliss.
> 
> But that's me and I'm probably odd.
> 
> Sorry, continue.


Where I was born, there weren't any, even after the war and the end of the blackout. Stars, the Milky Way, Shooting Stars, occasionally the Aurora Borealis all beautiful, then came sodium street-lights and all those natural wonders disappeared in an orange haze as light-pollution took over.


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## Pazcat (Mar 24, 2010)

baldilocks said:


> Where I was born, there weren't any, even after the war and the end of the blackout. Stars, the Milky Way, Shooting Stars, occasionally the Aurora Borealis all beautiful, then came sodium street-lights and all those natural wonders disappeared in an orange haze as light-pollution took over.



Exactly, I could list a heap of other reasons as well but the fact that a large percentage of the planets population has never seen the Milky Way is borderline criminal.

Anyway I didn't mean to hijack the thread.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Pazcat said:


> Anyway I didn't mean to hijack the thread.


Don't worry about it. Threads often have a bit of digression which keeps them ticking over and to the forefront of people's awareness until somebody comes up with a post that is "back on topic", it's either that, or the thread dies.


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## Pazcat (Mar 24, 2010)

Well that sounds fair enough then.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

baldilocks said:


> Don't worry about it. Threads often have a bit of digression which keeps them ticking over and to the forefront of people's awareness until somebody comes up with a post that is "back on topic", it's either that, or the thread dies.


And so
:focus:

If anyone's interested in the whole EU freedom of movement, paperwork to be done etc you may find the info you're looking for here and also in the FAQ's
http://www.expatforum.com/expats/sp...0354-residency-requirements-spain-2013-a.html


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

peterinmalaga said:


> According to EU law all citizens of the EU have the right to live in whichever European country they like. Since life in Spain is cheaper than in the UK, living here is almost a necessity for some retired people. I see living here as an option not as a privilege and many Spanish people who live in the UK have the same attitude to my home country: that's OK by me.


Not quite true. Most EU Directives allow member states to qualify the text thereof or to gain exemptions. 
As for moving for work: definitely not true. Member states can impose restrictions as did every other state apart from the UK and ROI when the former socialist states acceded in May 2004.
Like you my partner and I have lived in various countries of the EU. I have residency - permanent - in the Czech Republic but to satisfy the requirements I had to show a much larger income and bank/asset balance than required in Spain.

I'm intrigued by your comment that living in Spain is a 'necessity' for some retired people. If they are that impecunious, surely they'd be better off in the UK with all the generous benefits on tap for the elderly. I don't agree that living here is cheaper than in the UK. It all depends on area and lifestyle. We had a comfortable life in the UK and we've taken it with us when we left but apart from a short period in Prague when the exchange rate was good I can't honestly say we've found the cost of living cheaper. If people want 'cheap', perhaps Bulgaria or Romania would be a better option.

As for one's attitude to Spain, the UK or anywhere....all that matters is that you don't come across as some kind of do-as-I-like conquistador and that you abide by the rules and norms of the country in which you choose to reside.


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## Guest (Jun 25, 2013)

baldilocks said:


> The ones who don't have nor need an exit strategy because they aren't expats, are the immigrants who will still be here tomorrow because 'home' is here in Spain not the place they came from.


:clap2:


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