# Retaining Residency - 183 days in Spain - what counts as a day -



## Sunny Day (6 mo ago)

Hola todos

I am a British citizen currently living in Spain and I have a TIE Temporary residency for 5 years ending in 2025 (I lived here before Brexit so I have residency under the Withdrawal Agreement).

I am aware that to retain my residency I am not allowed to spend more than 6 months out of Spain each year. So, I need to spend 183 days per year in Spain.

I am looking for a formal definition of what counts as a “day in Spain”. I have seen 3 different opinions

YES - If you spend any time in Spain, even just a few minutes – so arriving at 11.55pm would count as a “day in Spain”
NO - If you spend any time not in Spain, even just a few minutes – so arriving at 00.05am would not count as a “day in Spain”
YES - If you spend midnight in Spain, that counts as a "day in Spain"
Is there a legal / formal definition of “a day in Spain” for residency purposes (not tax residency)?

Thanks!


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

Make it simple spend 184 days in Spain and you are okay.


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## Sunny Day (6 mo ago)

kaipa said:


> Make it simple spend 184 days in Spain and you are okay.


That's my plan, but what does 184 days in Spain mean? 

184 full days (ie all 24 hours in Spain)
184 days or parts of days
184 midnights

They are not the same thing


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## dancingspider (Mar 4, 2018)

I saw the answer to the very question you are asking, but I cannot remember where...


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## Barriej (Jul 23, 2012)

Sunny Day said:


> Hola todos
> 
> I am a British citizen currently living in Spain and I have a TIE Temporary residency for 5 years ending in 2025 (I lived here before Brexit so I have residency under the Withdrawal Agreement).
> 
> ...


Id doubt if there is a definite answer to your question.
When you renew after the five years, you may be asked about absences and it will be the officer who asks for the information that will take the decision.
Im sure you must have had dealings with Spanish Officials, so it shouldn't come as a surprise that each one will decide your fate in a different manner. (me and SWMBO went to our appointment at the foreigners office in Alicante for the TIE in Jan 2021 and we sat next to each other but were asked different questions and each official looked at different bits of paper).

Im assuming you want to spend as much time as possible outside Spain maybe for work or travel. 
But if it were me I would ensure at least 190+ days here as juggling 183 +/- one or two days may raise questions at some point (after all you are a legal resident so you should be spending the majority of your time in the country).

In respect to the 'day' the stamp in the passport a tourist gets just says the date. So even if you get here at 23.55 its still a day and if you get stamped out at 00.01 thats still another day gone (you might argue this but if the date only is shown that will be what they go by). 

Ive already stated on a different thread (possibly a different forum) that I got questioned for an over stay of one day in Canada because I forgot the travel day counted, even though I arrived at 22.00 local time and was leaving early in the morning of the last day (or so I had thought)..


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## Sunny Day (6 mo ago)

Barriej said:


> Id doubt if there is a definite answer to your question.
> When you renew after the five years, you may be asked about absences and it will be the officer who asks for the information that will take the decision.
> Im sure you must have had dealings with Spanish Officials, so it shouldn't come as a surprise that each one will decide your fate in a different manner. (me and SWMBO went to our appointment at the foreigners office in Alicante for the TIE in Jan 2021 and we sat next to each other but were asked different questions and each official looked at different bits of paper).
> 
> ...


Thank you for taking the time to reply. 

I don't _want_ to spend as much time out of Spain as I can, just that I have multiple commitments that mean I have to be in other countries. I do travel a reasonable amount, so I accumulate exit and arrival days - probably 30 partial days over the year. So, if I were to aim for the 190 day mark, does that mean 

190 days or parts thereof? So my 30 partial days would count
190 full days - so my 30 partial days wouldn't count - so in practical terms that would be 190+30=220 days or parts thereof
190 midnights - so my 15 arrival days would count, but my 15 exit days wouldn't
As this illustrates, whether or not the partial days do or don't count makes a material difference to me, which is why I am trying to get a definitive answer. 

Your point about Canada is consistent with how days are counted for Schengen stays (the "90/180 rule") and for several other jurisdictions, but I have not been able to determine whether this is how Spain counts days.


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## Barriej (Jul 23, 2012)

Sunny Day said:


> Thank you for taking the time to reply.
> 
> I don't _want_ to spend as much time out of Spain as I can, just that I have multiple commitments that mean I have to be in other countries. I do travel a reasonable amount, so I accumulate exit and arrival days - probably 30 partial days over the year. So, if I were to aim for the 190 day mark, does that mean
> 
> ...



I think you will need some professional advice to be honest.

If its counted that way for the Schengen, then it might be for Spain for residents as its a member (after all if you go to France from Spain as you have the WA TIE the 90/180 thing is in force) and as you say this is counted in complete days.

Ive looked on the Spanish gov website and immigration and cannot see anywhere about timings. (Im going to be blunt and say a day its a day no matter its length) as all I can find is the 6 months and 183 days comments (not parts of etc to make up the total). 
They are quite specific that the 183 days do not have to be in one block and can be spread over the year (which again makes me think any part of a day is counted as whole)

My comment about the 190 days is just that, forget travel days. 
Just be here for at least 190 full days don't matter what time you get here or leave here as I would count that as a day.


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## MataMata (Nov 30, 2008)

Sunny Day said:


> YES - If you spend any time in Spain, even just a few minutes – so arriving at 11.55pm would count as a “day in Spain”
> NO - If you spend any time not in Spain, even just a few minutes – so arriving at 00.05am would not count as a “day in Spain”
> YES - If you spend midnight in Spain, that counts as a "day in Spain"




1 & 3 above are effectively the same thing, if you're in country at midnight then that counts as the whole day.

A potential grey area exists on what legally defines arrival or departure and in that regard I would suggest that would be the time you transition from public to airside - or vice versa - at an airport, the problem there being that the actual time of transition is not officially recorded anywhere, or if it it is it's not information you could readily gain access to if it came down to the wire.

As previously suggested spend a couple of days extra in Spain and be safe from any dispute. Pushing it to the absolute limit could come back to bite you!


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## Sunny Day (6 mo ago)

MataMata said:


> 1 & 3 above are effectively the same thing, if you're in country at midnight then that counts as the whole day.
> 
> A potential grey area exists on what legally defines arrival or departure and in that regard I would suggest that would be the time you transition from public to airside - or vice versa - at an airport, the problem there being that the actual time of transition is not officially recorded anywhere, or if it it is it's not information you could readily gain access to if it came down to the wire.
> 
> As previously suggested spend a couple of days extra in Spain and be safe from any dispute. Pushing it to the absolute limit could come back to bite you!


Hello - thanks for taking the time to reply

1 and 3 are not the same thing.- A "midnight" is defined as being present at the end of the day. So, if I were to leave Spain at 10am, it would count as a partial day, but not a midnight. But if I were to arrive in Spain at 10pm, it would count as both a partial day and a midnight.

As you suggest, I would like to err on the side of caution and have some spare days, but my difficulty is that I still have not got a definitive definition of whether exit and arrival days can be be counted.


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## Sunny Day (6 mo ago)

Barriej said:


> I think you will need some professional advice to be honest.
> 
> If its counted that way for the Schengen, then it might be for Spain for residents as its a member (after all if you go to France from Spain as you have the WA TIE the 90/180 thing is in force) and as you say this is counted in complete days.
> 
> ...


Thanks again for taking the time to reply.

My research has delivered the same as you have found - references to 6 months and 183 days - on all the web resources, official and otherwise, I have not seen any definition of what counts as a day, so there is a degree of ambiguity.

Counting part of a day as a full day is common in many jurisdictions and the OECD recommends using a part of a day to determine tax residency, so I expect that will be the case for Spain. I suspect that you may be right - I may need to get some professional opinion on this.


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## trotter58 (Feb 8, 2017)

Sunny Day said:


> Hola todos
> 
> I am a British citizen currently living in Spain and I have a TIE Temporary residency for 5 years ending in 2025 (I lived here before Brexit so I have residency under the Withdrawal Agreement).
> 
> ...


I don't think it's any coincidence that after 183 days in Spain you become tax resident and that you're not allowed to spend longer than 6 months (183 days) out of Spain, to retain your temporary residency. 
I suspect that your Spanish tax return would be the deciding factor for retention of your residency.

Strictly speaking 6 months is 182.5 days. So, in theory, you could spend 6 months out of Spain and still stay under the 183 day tax rule (182.5 days). Is this what you're looking for?


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## MataMata (Nov 30, 2008)

Don't forget leap years 😉


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## Sunny Day (6 mo ago)

trotter58 said:


> I don't think it's any coincidence that after 183 days in Spain you become tax resident and that you're not allowed to spend longer than 6 months (183 days) out of Spain, to retain your temporary residency.
> I suspect that your Spanish tax return would be the deciding factor for retention of your residency.
> 
> Strictly speaking 6 months is 182.5 days. So, in theory, you could spend 6 months out of Spain and still stay under the 183 day tax rule (182.5 days). Is this what you're looking for?


Thank you for taking the time to reply.

I am and wish to remain Spanish tax resident, as well as to retain my temporary residency. I know that to do so, I need to be in Spain for 6 months+ (183 days). 

However, what I am not clear about is whether a partial day counts as one of those 183 days. 

For example, if I am in the UK and return to Spain, landing at 3pm, does being in Spain from 3pm until midnight count as a day towards the 183 days? 

Or, if I wake up in Spain, but catch a plane to the UK at 11am, does being in Spain from midnight until 11am count as a day towards the 183 days?

I travel relatively frequently and will have around 15 "exit" days and 15 "entry" days every year. So whether or not those 30 partial days count or not will make a material difference to me.


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## trotter58 (Feb 8, 2017)

Sunny Day said:


> Thank you for taking the time to reply.
> 
> I am and wish to remain Spanish tax resident, as well as to retain my temporary residency. I know that to do so, I need to be in Spain for 6 months+ (183 days).
> 
> ...


TBH I wouldn't worry. Your passport isn't stamped on entry/exit and as a Spanish tax payer you've declared that you spend over 183 days in Spain. I think that you may be overthinking this.

I really don't think that the Spanish immigration will go to the trouble to analyse all incoming & outgoing flights to prove that a Spanish taxpayer shouldn't be paying tax and therefore has failed to retain residency. However, if you weren't paying Spanish tax, that could be another matter when you come to apply for your 10 year residency card.


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

I normally don't post unless I can back up my answer, but I can assure you that day 1 of the 183 is the day you enter (enter = cross the immigration point), regardless of the time.
E.g. if you pass passport control at 23.00 on 1st January, you were fiscally in Spain on 1st January. Leaving is exactly the same, you leave the day you pass the control regardless of the time, but you are deemed to be in Spain that day.
Virtually all countries operate like this.
When I left Thailand, I left my job obviously, and my work permit was revoked. I had a certain number of days to leave the country, say 10. Wanting to extend my stay as long as possible I boopked a flight at 2.00 am on day 11. The immigration service my company used were very clear that I had to pass the control to get "airside" before midnight, otherwise I could be fined for overstaying and banned from re-entry.


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## Sunny Day (6 mo ago)

Overandout said:


> I normally don't post unless I can back up my answer, but I can assure you that day 1 of the 183 is the day you enter (enter = cross the immigration point), regardless of the time.
> E.g. if you pass passport control at 23.00 on 1st January, you were fiscally in Spain on 1st January. Leaving is exactly the same, you leave the day you pass the control regardless of the time, but you are deemed to be in Spain that day.
> Virtually all countries operate like this.
> When I left Thailand, I left my job obviously, and my work permit was revoked. I had a certain number of days to leave the country, say 10. Wanting to extend my stay as long as possible I boopked a flight at 2.00 am on day 11. The immigration service my company used were very clear that I had to pass the control to get "airside" before midnight, otherwise I could be fined for overstaying and banned from re-entry.


Hi, Thanks for the reply

Your experience is consistent with the rules that many countries have - i.e. if you are in a country for part of a day, that counts as "a day".

I have yet to see that formal confirmation that Spain's rules are consistent with this, but nor have I seen any evidence that Spain's rules deviate from this norm. I have done a reasonable amount of research and sought opinion on a number of resources, but I haven't found any formal definition of how Spain counts its days. Maybe such a definition doesn't exist!


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## michaeljohncameron (6 d ago)

Sunny Day said:


> Hi, Thanks for the reply Your experience is consistent with the rules that many countries have - i.e. if you are in a country for part of a day, that counts as "a day". I have yet to see that formal confirmation that Spain's rules are consistent with this, but nor have I seen any evidence that Spain's rules deviate from this norm. I have done a reasonable amount of research and sought opinion on a number of resources, but I haven't found any formal definition of how Spain counts its days. Maybe such a definition doesn't exist!


 Please refer to https://www.spenceclarke.com/articl...ency-in-spain-conflict-with-residencia-rules/ 
Article 9 states that if a person is physically present *more than 183 days in a calendar year, *they are considered as a tax resident of Spain. Then he goes on to say "By the way, a day of presence in Spain (or wherever else) is regarded to be where you have stayed overnight".


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## MataMata (Nov 30, 2008)

Midnight is both obvious and logical, curious as to what other definitions there may be of a day?


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## Sunny Day (6 mo ago)

michaeljohncameron said:


> Please refer to https://www.spenceclarke.com/articl...ency-in-spain-conflict-with-residencia-rules/
> 
> Article 9 states that if a person is physically present *more than 183 days in a calendar year, *they are considered as a tax resident of Spain. Then he goes on to say "By the way, a day of presence in Spain (or wherever else) is regarded to be where you have stayed overnight".


Thanks for taking the time to reply.

The quotation refers to tax residency. That is not the same as "residencia". The article you have shared states "From reading these notes it will be very apparent that the ‘permiso de residencia’ rules have little to do with tax residency rules. Indeed, permiso de residencia and empadronamiento are completely ignored by articles 8 and 9 of income tax law."

So, the "overnight" definition refers to tax residency only.

I have yet to see a definition for "residencia"

Thanks again for taking the time to reply.


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## Sunny Day (6 mo ago)

MataMata said:


> Midnight is both obvious and logical, curious as to what other definitions there may be of a day?


What do obvious and logical have to do with Spanish bureaucracy? 

Multiple countries count "part of a day" as one of your residency days. So arriving at 11.55pm would count as "one day". 

eg Canada:






Terms and definitions related to permanent residence - Canada.ca


Terms and definitions related to permanent residence




www.canada.ca





_Day of physical presence 
For the purpose of calculating the number of days to comply with the residency obligation in paragraph A28(2)(a), a day includes a full day or any part of a day that a permanent resident is physically present in Canada. Any part of a day spent in Canada, or otherwise in compliance with paragraph A28(2)(a), is to be counted as a full day for the purpose of calculating the 730 days in a 5-year period._

I have been looking for a Spanish definition, but can't find one.


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## MataMata (Nov 30, 2008)

That's what I said isn't it, if you're in country at midnight - or to be totally pedantic 23:59:59!


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## Barriej (Jul 23, 2012)

Sunny Day said:


> What do obvious and logical have to do with Spanish bureaucracy?
> 
> Multiple countries count "part of a day" as one of your residency days. So arriving at 11.55pm would count as "one day".
> 
> ...


Like I said in an earlier post I fell foul of his in Canada. 
And I have just received my Australia Evisa that states I can enter as many times as I like but can only stay for three months and must leave on or before the anniversary of that date, no times mentioned so full days only.

I still think you are over thinking and over complicating it.

A day is and will always be considered no matter what is written as any time of arrival or departure with a 24 hour period starting at 00:00,00 and finishing at 23:59,59 as a day even if its not specifically stated anywhere.
While there may not be anything in writing in Spain it doesn't matter because at no point is an actual time ever stamped into a passport etc or on a visa for part days. If it were international law airports and border controls would record time/day in out. THEY DONT AND NONE DO.

A work mate of mine is here in Barcelona on a job and he has 14 days to complete the job, the visa states an entry day and an exit day. 
So thats 14 days to arrive, work and ****** off. NO times associated with it

Just ensure (again as I and others have said) that you are here in Spain for at least 183 days every year to maintain fiscal residence.


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## Sunny Day (6 mo ago)

MataMata said:


> That's what I said isn't it, if you're in country at midnight - or to be totally pedantic 23:59:59!


Yes, you are correct. I chose a bad example to illustrate my point.

What I should have said is that in some countries (including Canada, as per the webpage that I pasted) - if you leave the country at 00:00:01, and spend the next 23 hours 59 minutes and 59 seconds out of the country, then the fact that you spent "part of a day" in the country would count as 1 day towards residency. So, not necessarily a midnight..


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## Sunny Day (6 mo ago)

Barriej said:


> Like I said in an earlier post I fell foul of his in Canada.
> And I have just received my Australia Evisa that states I can enter as many times as I like but can only stay for three months and must leave on or before the anniversary of that date, no times mentioned so full days only.
> 
> I still think you are over thinking and over complicating it.
> ...


I hope that you are right, that I am overthinking it. I hope you are also right that every arrival day and departure day counts as a day. I would just be a bit happier if I could see formal confirmation of that.


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## Barriej (Jul 23, 2012)

Sunny Day said:


> I hope that you are right, that I am overthinking it. I hope you are also right that every arrival day and departure day counts as a day. I would just be a bit happier if I could see formal confirmation of that.


I could ask my mate for his visa paperwork as that asked quite specifically for his DAY and DATE of entry and exit. No mention of times or even his flight details were needed.


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