# Odds of / best way to return to the US with relo



## Sardonicus (Mar 23, 2015)

I have not lived in the US in many years and may soon have a job that takes me back there. That job is a new one, and if I get this one, in a company I last worked for recently, and I am not working now. 

Without giving too many specifics so that I remain as anonymous as possible, as I have no idea if anyone in the company reads this forum, if that is not too generic, what are the odds of getting relo?

I am a mid-level person in the Finance industry currently in Asia, moving to the Southern US.

Are there any threads or stickys for this?


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## twostep (Apr 3, 2008)

It depends on the company.


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## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

Hey, you can always ask! And the worst they can say is "no." 
Cheers,
Bev


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## BBCWatcher (Dec 28, 2012)

If they refuse then ask for "U.S. relocation equivalent," i.e. a relocation allowance equivalent to a typical/average amount they'd pay for a relocation within the United States -- from Oregon, to pick a random example. That allowance would be better than no allowance.


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## Sardonicus (Mar 23, 2015)

Thanks all.

Would any of you know specifics for companies who are moving jobs from the Northeast and Southwest to places like Dallas TX, Jacksonville FL, Charlotte and Raleigh NC and the like, if there is more likelihood of relo for that?


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## twostep (Apr 3, 2008)

Sardonicus said:


> Thanks all.
> 
> Would any of you know specifics for companies who are moving jobs from the Northeast and Southwest to places like Dallas TX, Jacksonville FL, Charlotte and Raleigh NC and the like, if there is more likelihood of relo for that?


It all depends on how much they want you. You will be hard pressed to find a company going into details about relo prior to at least an in-house hiring decision being made.


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## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

Most companies would probably take relocation into consideration when approaching a job candidate currently living overseas. They'll at least assume early on that you may need or want relocation - and ultimately that will affect whether or not you make the cut for interviews and ultimately the job offer. Given the choice between a candidate who would need relocation and one who wouldn't, they are more likely to go for the cheaper candidate.

I know of overseas candidates who have indicated early on in the hiring process that they "won't need" relocation (usually because they're committed to moving to the area for other reasons) in order to improve their chances.
Cheers,
Bev


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## BBCWatcher (Dec 28, 2012)

Then there's this point: if you have to ask whether you're "worthy" of relocation assistance, are you?


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## Sardonicus (Mar 23, 2015)

twostep - thanks, and agree and am delaying that part of the discussion until later.

Bev - also thanks, and, agree that I am already GU (geographically undesirable, an 80s LA term if I'm not wrong) for them. 

I fit the role very well and am probably better suited for it than many as it is a hybrid role which I have extensive experience in both aspects of it. 

In the HR interview they say it might not be included but he didn't know and we agreed it was too early in the process to discuss it.

Re your point about saying up front about not needing it to have better chances, I have considered that but I am at the point where I really need it though for this or any role I do not expect it. But, well, given the logistics and financials it would be a huge help.

BBCW: Thank, and is is the operative question really, and the hardest to judge.

In the industry relo is given less and less, especially for new hires or sometimes even within region for internal staff (and perhaps less so if said staff indicate interest vs. are requested to relo). 

I guess I am borderline 'worthy' in terms of rank, 'above worthy' in terms of experience and fit, and, having worked there before with positive internal references, 'probably below worthy' given my location and 'of unknown worth' as I do not know the talent pool for persons like me in the location (NC).


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## accbgb (Sep 23, 2009)

The simple fact of the matter is, they will decide on the availability and amount of relocation assistance in direct proportion to how "special" you are and how much they want to add your specific skills to their company. 

Many firms cut way back on such assistance when the job market in the US tanked back in 2008; when every job posting attracted many hundreds of applicants, there was little need for companies to offer more than the basics.

There has been quite a turnaround in the US job market in the last few years, but I'll bet many companies are still holding back for all but those very special applicants who they really, really, want on their payroll.


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## Sardonicus (Mar 23, 2015)

Soon I will have another round of interviews for one role, interestingly, for the company I last worked for as a contractor in my current country, the contract which had lapsed.

Before it lapsed / was cut short I was the process of being onboarded to FTE, and my game plan was to work here for a year and take mobility to the US. Would have been a much easier route....

From that/those interview/s the topic of relo may come up, but I prefer to get the role first and discuss pay, relo, etc. later. 

I may have another option or two with this company in the same location in case this one doesn't work out, as I have a few contacts there that might help. It's not been easy though. 

Opportunities at other, similar companies have not yet presented, these may prove more difficult. 

Another aspect of relo, provided or not, is lead time. I believe the US is unfamiliar or unwilling to consider lead times of > 1 month, which for me would be a minimum, to close up a long life overseas, get packed and shipped, and get situated in a new location with apartment, a car, etc. 

Frankly I find this to be daunting and a ton of stuff to do in a short amount of time. Good that it's back to my own country, but even with that....


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## twostep (Apr 3, 2008)

If the unwilling US is your potential employer - they are hiring yiu to do a job

You can take a trip and make your arrangements up front. Have your wife dissolve Hongkong.


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## Newyorkaise (Nov 30, 2010)

Twostep, it seems to me that I usually agree with your opinions, but as a single woman in her late 60s I find it a bit bizarre that this far into the 21st century you assume that the OP has a wife who's sitting around with nothing to do but pack up the household so that the "man of the house" can move on to a new job. 

Of course, it may be that there's something in the OP's earlier posts in another thread that states this is the case, in which case I apologize in advance for my indignation at your suggestion.


And to the OP: I always found relocation expenses very company-specific. But if you want, need and like the idea of the job, just take it if it's a fit - the fact you don't demand significant relocation costs may mean the offered salary is higher.

By the way, if the job's in NC, as I think was suggested in one of your posts, the latest socio-political uproar may make it easier to get a job there. In a controversial move, the state recently passed a law that prohibits local governments from passing any laws protecting LGBT rights, effectively permitting widespread discrimination. It's been misrepresented in the press as relating solely to transgender people's bathroom usage (I kid you not) but is in fact far more insidious and wide-reaching. 

In response, a number of companies have canceled plans to relocate or expand their operations there, most have emphasized their own internal policies in support of LGBT rights and bemoaned that the new law will preclude their being able to attract the best employees, and - on the cultural front - several major musical groups have refused to play there. So there may be some diminution in the applicant pool, which would improve your chances.

In any event, good luck to you as you make your way through the interview/negotiation process.


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## Newyorkaise (Nov 30, 2010)

Mea culpa, Twostep (I should've known...).

I just finished reading all the posts I hadn't read since I'd looked at the US Forum a month or so ago and discovered that the OP does in fact refer to his wife in an unrelated thread...although in my (very limited) defense, I still don't see any suggestion that she is a stay-at-home wife. 

So, you know...maybe she's a hedge fund manager???? Although with my luck there's a way-early post that says she spends her days making award-winning pastry, home-schooling their children and donating time to good causes.

That said, my remarks on NC remain valid.


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## twostep (Apr 3, 2008)

Newyorkaise said:


> Mea culpa, Twostep (I should've known...).
> 
> I just finished reading all the posts I hadn't read since I'd looked at the US Forum a month or so ago and discovered that the OP does in fact refer to his wife in an unrelated thread...although in my (very limited) defense, I still don't see any suggestion that she is a stay-at-home wife.
> 
> ...


Someone has to close shop in Hong What does that have to do with being employed or not? 

Employers are still offering nice relo packages if they are very interested. You will hear very little about it outside the signing circle.


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## Sardonicus (Mar 23, 2015)

Thanks all and glad to see more commentary. 

The wife works part time, and packing up is something we really both need to do together first then later with a moving company, but only after we go through decades of belongings to sell / pack / discard etc. which we have started and it's a lot. 

Also, by the time an offer comes I may or may not be working (separate story and further complications) and if not, that allows more time to close up shop, most of which must be done by me as my wife is not a native of this country and almost everything is in my name - I was already settled in before she moved here.

We unfortunately don't have kids so that makes for an easier move, and we will take mostly personal belongings, clothes, etc. of which there is a lot, but not much if any furniture. There is however a lot of papers, books, and hobby stuff. 

There is/are a role/potential other roles in progress in NC and that is my first choice of location (well, Orange Country CA is really, but I suspect less opportunities there for me and it has a higher cost of living). 

The Dallas / Plano / Irving areas of TX and Jacksonville FL are close seconds/thirds. From what I am hearing other areas in FL could prove a similar balance of preferred weather, cost of living and quality of life. 

The factors are money and time - money is tight now, and it will take about a month to go from door-to-door I would guess, and if I have to pay for a trip there, well, I can but as I said it's tight. Also, I don't think many US-based firms are tolerant of even a 1-month lead time, let alone any more than that. If I am working when a US offer comes in, I will have to put in notice immediately and that will be cutting things close. 

It would be easier if the timing all worked out with working a bit to stay in / get back in the black and have a better financial cushion for a lapse in funds until settled in, but honestly, the combination of notice period and US-based role start time is a bit of a concern.


To add:

twostep: I didn't fully get your meaning of "the unwilling US"

Newyorkaise: While I am aware of the NC LGBT thing (though not the misrepresentation you mentioned), I kinda doubt that given the demographics there that it will have much effect, but you are right in pointing it out as a factor

Both: I mentioned it earlier, as I am mid-level it is probably more on the unlikely side that I would get relo, but then again, one company is moving roles out of the NY/NJ area to NC so that might help


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## twostep (Apr 3, 2008)

Low cost of living and DFW does not go together. No state income tax but ridiculous real estate taxes, utilities and property/vehicle insurance. Annual increases are standard. Infrastructure cannot keep up with growth so traffic is extremely unpleasant. If weeks of over 100F and winters with blizzards freezing town to a standstill is your idea of fun - we left in November and took some friends with us, some more are in the process of doing so.


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## Sardonicus (Mar 23, 2015)

twostep - you mentioned "we left in November and took some friends with us" - to where?


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## twostep (Apr 3, 2008)

Sardonicus said:


> twostep - you mentioned "we left in November and took some friends with us" - to where?


Three hours down the road - small town USA surrounded by Oklahoma City. The first family went with us, two more should be here by July. Boom town


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## Sardonicus (Mar 23, 2015)

I hear that Verizon just moved a large part of their workforce to OK from the northeast, you may be in good company.


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## Sardonicus (Mar 23, 2015)

Update as I am 2/3 or 3/4 of the way through the interviewing process for one job.

There are a number of other candidates.

HR called to ask how long it would take for me to get there, a question that was to precede further interviews. 

HR said there would be no relo. Strange as they are moving work out of the Northeast. Or maybe it's not strange. 

I didn't push it and thought to leave any such negotiations until I have a contract in the works, which will be in less than 2 weeks time if I am selected. 

Not sure I can salvage anything here.


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## Crawford (Jan 23, 2011)

By "contract in the works" I presume you mean an offer of a job with its relevant details.

It will be very difficult to negotiate a relocation package once you have that contract in place.

Contracts usually contain both job description and all that entails together with peripheral conditions like relocation packages which have already been discussed and agreed.

If HR are telling you no re-location then you should plan and budget on this not happening - if it DOES happen it would be a great bonus.


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## twostep (Apr 3, 2008)

Sardonicus said:


> Update as I am 2/3 or 3/4 of the way through the interviewing process for one job.
> 
> There are a number of other candidates.
> 
> ...


I can only give you my 5 cents based on experience with clients from superregional to mom and pop shops. HR laid the cards on the table. No relo. Were you to as it is called "leave me at the altar" with demands which have already been clarified thus wasting assets on the company side - next please. Correspondence and conversation notes are housed in ATS applicant tracking systems.


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## Sardonicus (Mar 23, 2015)

Ok and good to know. They are still in the candidate selection process, and I can't tell how many more rounds there will be, possibly two more. So no contract until then.

Before that I thought to ask if they have corporate housing to see if we could get at least that for a few weeks, which would really help. 

So what are the elements of relo packages?
- pre-move flight and apartment hunt
- relocation flight
- packing assistance
- shipping of belongings / container or partial container
- temporary housing
- storage of belongings before permanent housing is ready
- tax clearance or other financial assistance
- anything else?


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## twostep (Apr 3, 2008)

Sardonicus said:


> Ok and good to know. They are still in the candidate selection process, and I can't tell how many more rounds there will be, possibly two more. So no contract until then.
> 
> Before that I thought to ask if they have corporate housing to see if we could get at least that for a few weeks, which would really help.
> 
> ...


The sky is the limit if the employer goes along with it:

Per diem for employee and family and pets
Deposit for rental
Relo agent
Vehicle - temp or perm including personal usage
Annual trips home for employee and spouse
Rita
Phones
Vacation days
401k and benefits start date (lots of wiggle room)
Cash for incidentals
House purchase
Club memberships (personal or corporate which can easily be a five figure annual benefit but beware of taxes)
Tenure based on title
Shippment of sporting equipment, pets and vehicles

I remember a cute inclusion of winter clothes for the family and a four wheeler in WY.


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## Sardonicus (Mar 23, 2015)

Wow that's a lot. I got reloed twice to two different countries and was a full expat in one, and got a lot of that many moons ago. 

Times have changed.

Thinking of the right angle and timing to see if I can get corporate housing for a month, I just learned that they have a corporate site there. 

I would think that even with no relo stated and given I would be coming from overseas that it would be a much lesser and perhaps achievable ask.


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