# Minor damage on a new car, insurance claim?



## Malbec (Jan 2, 2014)

I was reversing and somehow hit the RTA parking meter, which unfortunately went unnoticed by rear camera, side mirrors or... my head. There is a minor damage on the bumper where the paint came off. Didn't know what to do at first, since the mobile app require two vehicles to make a report. Called the police, told them what happened, they told me to go to police station. At Al Barsha police station they told me I have to go back and call them again, as they have to do on site inspection to check if any public property (parking meter) was not damaged. So I went back, called the police, they arrived within 45mins, completely surprised that they had to come to such a small accident. They said no damage was done to the parking meter, they checked the back of my car, gave me a pink slip and AED 200 fine.

Now, how do you usually deal with these kind of small damages where painting is required? Do you make a police report and go to the authorised service center or just fix it in the 3rd party garage without the report? In addition to the above fine, I will have to pay the excess of AED 750 to repair the damage.

My car (Audi Q7) is new as I bought this January and I already had minor accident before, when young Emirati lady hit my back. At that time she was at fault, so we made a report and everything was covered. I was surprised by the quotation given by authorised workshop which was AED 15,000 for bumper replacement. To be honest the bumper was only scratched in a not very visible way, that's why I was surprised they were exchanging it completely for a new one - which was good for me of course.

Knowing the costs above and considering the new car, I went through the official way (police report + fine + excess), but I am just wondering if going through insurance, as it was my fault, does have any consequences on something in the future? E.g. renewal insurance fee is going to be higher or something? What's your experience?

Ps. I don't know how this guy managed to have 21 years of accident-free driving, especially here, where drivers seem to be less careful. Few days ago another lady rolled onto my car while I was waiting at traffic lights...


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## Stevesolar (Dec 21, 2012)

Malbec said:


> I was reversing and somehow hit the RTA parking meter, which unfortunately went unnoticed by rear camera, side mirrors or... my head. There is a minor damage on the bumper where the paint came off. Didn't know what to do at first, since the mobile app require two vehicles to make a report. Called the police, told them what happened, they told me to go to police station. At Al Barsha police station they told me I have to go back and call them again, as they have to do on site inspection to check if any public property (parking meter) was not damaged. So I went back, called the police, they arrived within 45mins, completely surprised that they had to come to such a small accident. They said no damage was done to the parking meter, they checked the back of my car, gave me a pink slip and AED 200 fine.
> 
> Now, how do you usually deal with these kind of small damages where painting is required? Do you make a police report and go to the authorised service center or just fix it in the 3rd party garage without the report? In addition to the above fine, I will have to pay the excess of AED 750 to repair the damage.
> 
> ...


Hi,
There are a number of specialist companies that repair minor damage without a police report. Look up "paintless dent repair Dubai" on google and it will bring up a few companies in Dubai run by Europeans.
They recently did a paintless dent repair on a wing (from a shopping trolley ding) - you could not see a trace after they finished - 500 AED.
The same company also does bumper repairs (although I did not enquire about the cost.) and alloy wheel refurbishment.
The same companies typically do this work for garages - to prepare secondhand cars for resale.
If you claim on your insurance - the premium will rise at renewal time.
Cheers
Steve


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## A.Abbass (Jun 28, 2014)

No wonders 15,000 dhs are ripped to replace a bumper, your old bumper will be exported to other countries and would get refurbished and sold for 10,000 dhs. It's a win-win situation for everyone.

Imho, if it's a minor paint only job, just leave it, you will at one point fix it with other damages. If I am buying a car and request for it's history from the dealership and find so many paint jobs/repairs I will most probably refrain from buying it.


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## Malbec (Jan 2, 2014)

Stevesolar said:


> Hi,
> There are a number of specialist companies that repair minor damage without a police report. Look up "paintless dent repair Dubai" on google and it will bring up a few companies in Dubai run by Europeans.
> They recently did a paintless dent repair on a wing (from a shopping trolley ding) - you could not see a trace after they finished - 500 AED.
> The same company also does bumper repairs (although I did not enquire about the cost.) and alloy wheel refurbishment.
> ...


Thanks, I understand it was a dent. Here there is a paint which partially came off. I believe that at the 3rd party garage, they would try to fix it for a reasonable amount of money. Reporting it to the authorised workshop may mean, they might want to replace the bumper again based on my previous experience, which can be expensive for the insurance company. Any idea on how are these insurance premiums rising? Is it based on the amount or value of claims?

Having police report on hand, would it still make sense to bypass authorised workshop?



A.Abbass said:


> No wonders 15,000 dhs are ripped to replace a bumper, your old bumper will be exported to other countries and would get refurbished and sold for 10,000 dhs. It's a win-win situation for everyone.
> 
> Imho, if it's a minor paint only job, just leave it, you will at one point fix it with other damages. If I am buying a car and request for it's history from the dealership and find so many paint jobs/repairs I will most probably refrain from buying it.


Well, this damage is visible and I think any damage would be annoying on a new car. It's all relative. Knowing how people are driving here, I would prefer to see a clear history of repairs and pictures of what was damaged, instead of someone pretending to have clean history but fixing everything without police report, using 3rd party garages.


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## w_man (Apr 16, 2010)

For insurance premium rising - it depends on your insurer and their policy. 

I'm with AXA and I'm covered with what's called 'no claim discount protection'. This means that the No Claim Discount earned by me over the years will be protected if I don't have more than 2 claims in the past 3 years and total value of all claims in the past 3 years have not exceeded 50k aed. Having said that, they could certainly give me my 'no claim discount' but then generally raise the insurance premium and I couldn't do anything about it - so it really all depends.

As far as getting the damage fixed - I agree that having a ding on a new car is annoying and I had someone damage my fender at a mall once while it was parked (didn't catch the person doing it). It bothered me quite a bit and I wanted to get it repaired but held off. Eventually someone hit me again in the same spot and they ended up covering the cost of a new bumper and fender. 

Again, depends on you really. Personally though, if it was me, for a minor scratch/bump, I'd take it to a reputable 3rd party company and get it done from them. You can certainly check with the dealership or 'authorized workshop' as well. When you mention it's not an insurance claim, they'll usually give you a reduced quote. I have experienced that in many cases where the quote is much higher when the shop knows insurance is covering the cost but they give you a 'discount' when you're paying cash.


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## Malbec (Jan 2, 2014)

Thanks for the responses.

My comprehensive insurance provider is RSA.

Is there any timeframe on validity of police report, should I decide to wait with the repair? E.g. if I show up 2 months later, may insurance reject such claim?


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## rsinner (Feb 3, 2009)

Malbec said:


> Thanks for the responses.
> 
> My comprehensive insurance provider is RSA.
> 
> Is there any timeframe on validity of police report, should I decide to wait with the repair? E.g. if I show up 2 months later, may insurance reject such claim?


I think you need to contact insurance within a week of the incident. Depends on the insurance company, but there is definitely a time limit. 
I was told by my claims manager (or whatever their title is) that a police report may be valid for only 72 hours - however she sounded somewhat clueless and the report (in Arabic and in Abu Dhabi) did not explicitly say so.


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## w_man (Apr 16, 2010)

Hmm - not sure. I know I got my repairs done a month + after the accident/police report because I was heading out of town when it happened. BUT - I had informed the insurance company and started the claim. My understanding is that you're suppose to inform the insurance company ASAP.

I would just decide how you want to handle it - insurance or out-of-pocket and go from there.

Or perhaps call RSA and see what they say? based on hypothetical question of course.


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## crt454 (Sep 3, 2012)

regarding the minor accident you had with the 15k repair, you were better off to just let it be, cause when it comes time to sell your car and get inspected, it will be noted that your car was involved in two wrecks, and this will lower the resale value by at least 35%, as buyers avoid buying a car that was involved in a wreck.


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## Malbec (Jan 2, 2014)

w_man said:


> Hmm - not sure. I know I got my repairs done a month + after the accident/police report because I was heading out of town when it happened. BUT - I had informed the insurance company and started the claim. My understanding is that you're suppose to inform the insurance company ASAP.
> 
> I would just decide how you want to handle it - insurance or out-of-pocket and go from there.
> 
> Or perhaps call RSA and see what they say? based on hypothetical question of course.


I called RSA and spoke to their underwriting team but they said they are not sure how it will affect my premiums in the future as apparently it depends on many factors: amount of claims, value of claims etc. I will go to Deutsche Technik and see how much they will quote me for this. I also contacted Prodent but have not heard from them yet.



crt454 said:


> regarding the minor accident you had with the 15k repair, you were better off to just let it be, cause when it comes time to sell your car and get inspected, it will be noted that your car was involved in two wrecks, and this will lower the resale value by at least 35%, as buyers avoid buying a car that was involved in a wreck.


I think a wreck is an overstatement. I do admire people letting their brand new 300k car be, which was involved in accident just 3 weeks after the purchase. If I would not care about having a new car, I would buy 2nd hand. I know that I lost already but frankly I am not buying a new car to keep great resale value. If that was the case, I would buy Toyota.


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## Stevesolar (Dec 21, 2012)

w_man said:


> For insurance premium rising - it depends on your insurer and their policy.
> 
> I'm with AXA and I'm covered with what's called 'no claim discount protection'. This means that the No Claim Discount earned by me over the years will be protected if I don't have more than 2 claims in the past 3 years and total value of all claims in the past 3 years have not exceeded 50k aed. Having said that, they could certainly give me my 'no claim discount' but then generally raise the insurance premium and I couldn't do anything about it - so it really all depends.
> 
> ...


Hi,
Be careful with "protected no claim discount".
It is probably one of the biggest cons in the insurance industry.
All they are protecting is the amount of discount (normally 50%) off the stated premium.
Therefore on a given year, if you don't have any claims the insurance quote might be 4000 AED before no claims discount. You then pay 2000 AED.
If you have claims - then the premium is loaded and you then get 50% discount on the loaded premium.
If you have too many accidents - they then take away the 50% discount (and seriously load the premium even higher!!)
Cheers
Steve


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## w_man (Apr 16, 2010)

Stevesolar said:


> Hi,
> Be careful with "protected no claim discount".
> It is probably one of the biggest cons in the insurance industry.
> All they are protecting is the amount of discount (normally 50%) off the stated premium.
> ...


Oh I trust an insurance company as I would a politician. This said 'protection' is part of my package, not something I added on. But then again, I'm sure they're charging me somewhere. 

Anyways, I normally shop around every year before renewing and AXA has been the best so far in cost as well as service. Better the devil you know I guess


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## Malbec (Jan 2, 2014)

Probably holding off and wait until someone else hit my bumper again is a good idea but this can take time. I have not dealt much with car insurance providers in my life, that is why I have no experience in handling such minor accidents. If I would pay a hefty amount for health insurance but hold off claiming because they may increase my premium, that would make no sense. Health insurance providers increase the premium because of age and not because of claims. I do understand that car insurance works differently but I still don't understand why people prefer to fix it out of pocket instead of claiming. Yet no one seems to have experience on how such claims may affect the premium.

So what happens in case if there is no one's fault, e.g. a rock fall on the car while driving to Fujairah?


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## w_man (Apr 16, 2010)

Every insurance company words it differently. I have dealt with insurances back home where they raise your premium regardless of you getting into any accidents claiming 'due to too many claims last year, it's an industry level increase'.

The general idea is that if your out-of-pocket expense will generally be fairly low after paying the deductible (excess) then why have a claim on your record? As insurance companies do use claims against you when calculating their risk and your premium. I know back home a claim can stick with you for 6+ years. 

How much does an accident truly effect your premium? I have no idea and I'm not sure if there's a clear cut calculation out there on the Google (maybe I'm wrong) but I'm certain that your premiums DO go up when there's a claim on your record vs. no claim on your record as it has been explained to me by a few insurance companies and brokers over the years. Considering that a claim stays on your record for several years, it's safe to see why some people might take a few hundred dirham hit for now than pay for it for several years.

I would not compare health care insurance to auto insurance in this scenario. A small dent/scratch on your bumper will not yield to a serious issue like cancer or infection. I think the general consensus (me included) wait it out - not to necessarily wait for someone to hit me so they can pay for the repairs but as it's a small enough dent and I'm sure I'll get more in the next year or two in parking lots (minor hit and runs), I think I'm simply going to get some minor paintless dent repairs and a polish when I'm selling the car. It's much cheaper to do it all in one go compared to getting every single dent/scratch fixed every time it happens.

The rest is up to you - if you don't like the dent on your new car - get it fixed. Go ahead have it done through insurance. I wouldn't even think twice if the repair required a 15k bumper replacement. But I would seriously consider my options if the repair was 700aed and the deductible was 500aed.


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## rsinner (Feb 3, 2009)

Malbec said:


> I do understand that car insurance works differently but I still don't understand why people prefer to fix it out of pocket instead of claiming. Yet no one seems to have experience on how such claims may affect the premium.


There is a whole profession out there which calculates the probability of an insurance event happening and the likely risk of payout, and prices the premium accordingly (actuary). For routine items (like car insurance in UAE) there exist proprietary software to price the premium. This is the core of the insurance business - hence expecting someone on the forum to know by how much the premium will go up is probably too much.




w_man said:


> How much does an accident truly effect your premium? I have no idea and I'm not sure if there's a clear cut calculation out there on the Google (maybe I'm wrong) but I'm certain that your premiums DO go up when there's a claim on your record vs. no claim on your record as it has been explained to me by a few insurance companies and brokers over the years.


The answer above sums it up.

The insurance company will likely increase the premium - that is the best guess. BTW, the premium next year will go down because the declared value of the car will go down, but will go up because your car will be older (probably not applicable for the first couple of years) with a higher risk of you becoming less careful about it (yes - that happens). But your no claims discount may bring the premium lower 

If the cost of repair is a few thousand Dhs, get it done through insurance. If it is only a few hundred Dhs, get it done out of pocket (since your insurance claim in any case will have a deductible of 200-500 Dhs). If you make the claim, I would expect the insurance premium to go up by 10-20% (POTA - pulled out of thin air) versus what it would be without the claim. If you can live with the dent, live with it.


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## Malbec (Jan 2, 2014)

rsinner said:


> There is a whole profession out there which calculates the probability of an insurance event happening and the likely risk of payout, and prices the premium accordingly (actuary). For routine items (like car insurance in UAE) there exist proprietary software to price the premium. This is the core of the insurance business - hence expecting someone on the forum to know by how much the premium will go up is probably too much.
> [...]


My deductible is AED 750, I will check how much it will cost to fix it. I called one garage and they said between AED 1500-2000. I am not expecting someone to give me exact details, but I thought someone might had similar experience, claimed through insurance and can share the experience that his first year insurance was AED 12,000, after claiming minor damage worth AED 2000, it went up to AED 15,000 upon renewal.


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## Berliner (Jul 18, 2013)

Do note that Nabooda can void your warranty if you inform them about the "accident" and then have it fixed from outside.


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## w_man (Apr 16, 2010)

Malbec said:


> My deductible is AED 750, I will check how much it will cost to fix it. I called one garage and they said between AED 1500-2000. I am not expecting someone to give me exact details, but I thought someone might had similar experience, claimed through insurance and can share the experience that his first year insurance was AED 12,000, after claiming minor damage worth AED 2000, it went up to AED 15,000 upon renewal.


I can appreciate what you're asking for but again, as rsinner mentioned, it's much more complicated than that. From my (very high level) understanding, insurance premiums depend on many different variables. Your past history, number of people living in your house, your age and perhaps even medical conditions. 

If anyone on here shared their experience and said, lets say, their insurance went up by 5% after claiming a minor accident - it would be a mistake for you to assume the same for yourself.

Good luck with the repairs


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## Malbec (Jan 2, 2014)

Berliner said:


> Do note that Nabooda can void your warranty if you inform them about the "accident" and then have it fixed from outside.


Thanks for the warning, good to know. Pity that I have just emailed them the picture asking for quotation. Prodent says they will fix it for AED 1200-1400 on the spot and it will take 3-4 hours, not sure how professional it sounds though, fixing and painting outdoor?


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## w_man (Apr 16, 2010)

Malbec said:


> Thanks for the warning, good to know. Pity that I have just emailed them the picture asking for quotation. Prodent says they will fix it for AED 1200-1400 on the spot and it will take 3-4 hours, not sure how professional it sounds though, fixing and painting outdoor?


Depends on the job - if it's just a touch up and buffing then it's probably not a big deal but if it requires spray paining the whole bumper then I would want it done in a proper bay.


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## Malbec (Jan 2, 2014)

w_man said:


> Depends on the job - if it's just a touch up and buffing then it's probably not a big deal but if it requires spray paining the whole bumper then I would want it done in a proper bay.


Prodent came and said they can fix it easily within 3-4 hours on the spot for AED 1200 (buffing, sanding, painting the part of the bumper). Nabooda (authorised service center) said it will cost at least AED 3000 (AED 750 is my excess), take 3-4 days and that by using 3rd party I may lose the warranty... I am sure they will notice something was done to the bumper in case of future inspection or accident (even if I wouldn't inform them about this accident), so I am not sure if it is worth risking 5 year warranty for such a small issue.

I will probably leave it like that.


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## Stevesolar (Dec 21, 2012)

Malbec said:


> Prodent came and said they can fix it easily within 3-4 hours on the spot for AED 1200 (buffing, sanding, painting the part of the bumper). Nabooda (authorised service center) said it will cost at least AED 3000 (AED 750 is my excess), take 3-4 days and that by using 3rd party I may lose the warranty... I am sure they will notice something was done to the bumper in case of future inspection or accident (even if I wouldn't inform them about this accident), so I am not sure if it is worth risking 5 year warranty for such a small issue.
> 
> I will probably leave it like that.


Hi,
Warranty threat is purely a fear factor. There is nothing that painting a bumper will do to negatively affect the car or risk the warranty. When professional buyers check a car for previous damage they use a paint thickness meter on the metal panels of the car - not on the bumpers. Prodent did a painless dent removal on a front wing of one of our cars a few weeks ago - you could not see where they had been!
Cheers
Steve


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## DubaiResident (Oct 25, 2014)

Yea I think you should be more worried about breaking your warranty than paying it out of pocket. Audi is a very expensive car to repair out of pocket.


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## Stevesolar (Dec 21, 2012)

DubaiResident said:


> Yea I think you should be more worried about breaking your warranty than paying it out of pocket. Audi is a very expensive car to repair out of pocket.


Painting a small scratch on a bumper will not cancel the warranty on an Audi!!


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## Malbec (Jan 2, 2014)

Stevesolar said:


> Painting a small scratch on a bumper will not cancel the warranty on an Audi!!


I have not read the full T&C of the warranty to be honest. Now when I am thinking about this, drivers are prisoners of car insurance and hesitate to use it for small damages. The insurance of my car cost 12k for 1st year and since the T&C of renewal premiums and "no claim discount" are so unclear, I think I will go ahead and hit my insurance with this small damage. If they are going to act up on renewal, I can always change the car insurance provider, right?

Again, if we would be paying 12k per year for health insurance and hesitate to claim for small things and only keep it for major issues (cancer), it wouldn't make sense to pay the premium of 12k for comprehensive insurance, right? But this is what the health insurance is for and I claim whatever I can.


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