# Reason for rejection of tarjeta de residencia: non-traditional employment situation



## director1 (Dec 28, 2013)

Hi everyone,

So I got the letter in the mail today explaining why my application was rejected. On one hand, after reading it, my thought was “Ugh, I’m SO dumb!”, while on the other hand I was also thinking “Ugh, they’re SO dumb!” 

Effectively my personal situation is this: I was offered a postdoctoral research position in a department at a university in the UK. My job responsibilities are to carry out fieldwork-based research and write articles*–*something I can effectively do anywhere. I told my line managers when I was hired that I would be in the UK for a few months at the beginning of the job, but that I was getting married and would soon be likely to move to Spain with my wife, and they agreed that this was fine –*since my job is mostly independent research anyway, and I’m not actually required to actually teach at the university. I travel to different parts of Europe for fieldwork, and I go to the UK about once a month for a meeting*with my boss –*or we speak by Skype. Yes it's not a traditional job laying bricks or filing papers, but it's what I do. But i LIVE with my wife and her family in Spain*–*in that when I come ‘home’, this is where I go to be with her. All my things are at our place, that is where I sleep when I am in Spain, that is my official address.

When I submitted my application for the tarjeta, I presented my work contract for this job with the university because I THOUGHT that this would show that I was responsible, employed and that I was earning enough that I would not become a burden to the state. I also submitted bank statements in my wife’s name that she had over £7,000 in a UK bank. We had only moved to Spain a few weeks prior, so hadn’t transferred but a few hundred pounds to her Spanish account. And as I still travel to the UK and have property there, for now I have my own salary paid into my UK account (my wife is not working).

The reason the extranjería gave for the rejection of my application was that (I'll give the Spanish so I don't mince their words): ”el solicitante tampoco cumple con el articulo 7.1d ya que en el momento de solicitud de la Tarjeta mencionada, el solicitante no convivía con pareja de hecho, ya que del contrato presentado se observa que el centro de trabajo radica en la ciudad de Londres (Reindo Unido) no cumpliéndose por lo tanto el requisito obligatorio de convivir con la ciudadana española que le da la derecho a la tarjeta solicitada”.

So basically, the way I see it, in the 21st century, in the mind of the extranjería, it is *inconceivable* that someone could have a job in one country and actually live and do that work in another. Is it impossible that a tarjeta be given to someone who does not have a fixed 9 to 5 job at a desk in an office? I figured that honesty was the best policy, but I guess it would have been better just to have said that I am unemployed and transferred enough money from my UK account to my Spanish account to show that I have €8,000 in my BBVA account.

Obviously, I’m (more than) a bit annoyed and frustrated, and I’m going to hire a lawyer to either make an appeal or reapply (depending on what they advise). It would be annoying to have to reapply again since I think it would mean I would have to get a new apostilled birth certificate (which from where I was born in the US these days takes about 2 months) and a new apostilled marriage certificate, since the ones I submitted back in November would have passed the 3-month "expiration date" by now.

Anyway, I figured I’d let you all know where things are at with my situation – and maybe ask you if anyone out there has any advice or thoughts at all.

Cheers,
Dir


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

> ”el solicitante tampoco cumple con el articulo 7.1d ya que en el momento de solicitud de la Tarjeta mencionada, el solicitante no convivía con pareja de hecho, ya que del contrato presentado se observa que el centro de trabajo radica en la ciudad de Londres (Reindo Unido) no cumpliéndose por lo tanto el requisito obligatorio de convivir con la ciudadana española que le da la derecho a la tarjeta solicitada"


But...
Isn't this true, that at the time you asked for the card you were not living with your partner, and you were not actually married?
If so, this as much as the work situation, is the reason you were rejected.
If you are now married the situation has changed


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Pesky Wesky said:


> But...
> Isn't this true, that at the time you asked for the card you were not living with your partner, and you were not actually married?
> If so, this as much as the work situation, is the reason you were rejected.
> If you are now married the situation has changed


that's how I read it too

they essentially don't/didn't believe that director1 is/was in a real relationship, nor actually living with his partner here in Spain


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## director1 (Dec 28, 2013)

Pesky Wesky said:


> But...
> Isn't this true, that at the time you asked for the card you were not living with your partner, and you were not actually married?
> If so, this as much as the work situation, is the reason you were rejected.
> If you are now married the situation has changed


No, that's not true. We were married last March, lived together in the UK until September, moved to Spain in October (where we now live with her family), registered with the padrón a few days after arriving, and I then applied for the tarjeta in November.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

director1 said:


> No, that's not true. We were married last March, lived together in the UK until September, moved to Spain in October (where we now live with her family), registered with the padrón a few days after arriving, and I then applied for the tarjeta in November.


So why did they say "pareja de hecho"?


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## director1 (Dec 28, 2013)

xabiachica said:


> that's how I read it too
> 
> they essentially don't/didn't believe that director1 is/was in a real relationship, nor actually living with his partner here in Spain


But we have a marriage certificate and are empadronado at the same address*– what more could they want to prove a relationship? A kid?


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## director1 (Dec 28, 2013)

Pesky Wesky said:


> So why did they say "pareja de hecho"?


Yes, that is an extremely good question Pesky Wesky. I was thinking this same thing myself. I don't know. We submitted the marriage certificate at the time of application, and were told by the funcionario that we did not need to submit our Libro de Familia. But any mention of "Libro de Familia" –*or anything else about our marriage itself – isn't given in the letter, so my sense is that the validity of the marriage itself doesn't comprise part of the reason for the rejection. It's the "convivencia" they seem to be citing as the reason. That I have a job in another country looks to disprove that we could be living together.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

director1 said:


> But we have a marriage certificate and are empadronado at the same address*– what more could they want to prove a relationship? A kid?


not saying that this applies to you - but a 'marriage of convenience' could supply that



see what a lawyer says - but if you either appeal or re-apply, I would provide a lot more proof such as photos going back for as many years as the relationship does etc

it seems to me that this is the issue at least as much as the fact that you have employment in a different country


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Yes, I confess I know very little about all of this, but _*pareja de hecho*_ just _salta a la vista_ as they say, and not giving in at least a copy, if not an authenticated copy of the libro de familia seems very strange to me.


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## director1 (Dec 28, 2013)

xabiachica said:


> not saying that this applies to you - but a 'marriage of convenience' could supply that
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Mmm, that is true I guess. I hadn't thought to submit any of our photos or other proof of our relationship because the stated requirements never asked for anything like this. We had an apartment together in the UK and shared bills/accounts*–*maybe should I present these too? My sense now is just that showing MORE documentation that links me to the UK is probably not the way forward with the (or with this particular) extranjería.

It looks like tarjeta rejections have been on the rise since the medios de vida requirements were instituted a few years ago –*I guess in a way I am sort of a victim of that.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

director1 said:


> Mmm, that is true I guess. I hadn't thought to submit any of our photos or other proof of our relationship because the stated requirements never asked for anything like this. We had an apartment together in the UK and shared bills/accounts*–*maybe should I present these too? My sense now is just that showing MORE documentation that links me to the UK is probably not the way forward with the (or with this particular) extranjería.


You're probably right, so present the Libro de Familia. You can't get more Spanish than that!


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## director1 (Dec 28, 2013)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Yes, I confess I know very little about all of this, but _*pareja de hecho*_ just _salta a la vista_ as they say, and not giving in at least a copy, if not an authenticated copy of the libro de familia seems very strange to me.


I don't disagree with you there*– though I'd have thought they would have said something about this in the letter if that played into the decision to reject at all. We don't even have our Libro de Familia yet, though. The La Linea registro civil, who is issuing our Libro, have told me they still have a big backlog at the moment –*so even though we submitted all our paperwork in October to have the marriage officially registered, it looks as though this will take at least another month or two to get. What is the Spanish for "God please grant me the undying patience of a saint"?


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

director1 said:


> I don't disagree with you there*–* though I'd have thought they would have said something about this in the letter if that played into the decision to reject at all*. We don't even have our Libro de Familia yet, though. The La Linea registro civil, who is issuing our Libro, have told me they still have a big backlog at the moment –*so even though we submitted all our paperwork in October to have the marriage officially registered, it looks as though this will take at least another month or two to get. What is the Spanish for "God please grant me the undying patience of a saint"?


Yes, good point
Maybe you can learn something from this lady


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## kimuyen (Aug 8, 2013)

director1 said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> 
> ... I’m going to hire a lawyer to either make an appeal or reapply (depending on what they advise). It would be annoying to have to reapply again since I think it would mean I would have to get a new apostilled birth certificate (which from where I was born in the US these days takes about 2 months) and a new apostilled marriage certificate, since the ones I submitted back in November would have passed the 3-month "expiration date" by now.
> ...


Not sure which state is your home state in the US but you could request your certificates through a company like https://www.vitalchek.com/. I lived in Maryland and the Maryland government website at the time provided this information. I assume vitalcheck is an official partner in other states also. I think it cost me about $45 for a birth and marriage certificate (I did not pay for rushed shipping to my parents' address in the US; it would cost you a bit more for the rushed shipping) and about 7 days. One reason I had to go through a company because a friend or relative would not be able to provide the ID to match with the record holder. I then asked my cousin to take the certificates to the Department State of MD to get the apostille stamp, which was a five minute process. Getting these documents to Spain is an expensive process though. It costs close to 70 euros to send it via UPS or FedEx (2-3 days). 

Good luck!


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## 213979 (Apr 11, 2013)

_Pero vamos a ver... _ My first reaction to the reason they gave you was a word that I'm not permitted to type on this forum due to its TOU. 

Let's see if I understand your situation correctly. I've got a serious case of baby brain right now so I'm sorry if I haven't understood. 
1. You're *legally married* (church or civil ceremony) to a Spanish *citizen*.
2. The reason given to you for having turned down your residency app was just: _The reason the extranjería gave for the rejection of my application was that (I'll give the Spanish so I don't mince their words): ”el solicitante tampoco cumple con el articulo 7.1d ya que en el momento de solicitud de la Tarjeta mencionada, el solicitante no convivía con pareja de hecho, ya que del contrato presentado se observa que el centro de trabajo radica en la ciudad de Londres (Reindo Unido) no cumpliéndose por lo tanto el requisito obligatorio de convivir con la ciudadana española que le da la derecho a la tarjeta solicitada”._

Here are my questions: 
1. Why does it start with _tampoco_? That leads me to believe they gave you another reason before the one you cited.
2. Did they interview you and your spouse at any point?
3. Have you taken any action yet? 
4. Do you have a copy of your residency application? (You should.) PLEASE check to make sure you didn't accidentally tick a box saying pareja de hecho? I assume you filled out EX-19 (Solicitud de tarjeta de residencia de familiar de ciudadano de la UE.): http://extranjeros.empleo.gob.es/es...icitudes2/19-Tarjeta_familiar_comunitario.pdf in Spanish, right? In part 5, please check whether you ticked "conyuge" or "pareja registrada" under "residencia temporal". Remember, we're here on "residencia temporal" until we've been living in Spain for five consecutive years. 

IF the one reason you were turned down is the one you cited, they screwed up the processing of your application. Read "Requisitos" here: Secretaría General de Inmigración y Emigración. Portal de la Inmigración

Basically, you've got to: 
1. Be planning to stay with your wife in Spain for a period of over three months.
2. Be employed OR a student
3. Have health insurance
4. Have "sufficient money to take care of yourself"
5. Be married or in a civil partnership 

I simply don't understand why they used the words "_pareja de hecho_" in your rejection letter. I'd be at extranjería on Monday with my spouse, ready for "battle." I'd politely say to the _funcionario_ that the rejection letter makes no sense, citing the fact that they claim that you're a _pareja de hecho_ when, in fact, you are actually legally married. 

Here's where I think they could have "caught" you: You need _Documentación acreditativa de la existencia de vínculo familiar con el ciudadano de la Unión o del Espacio Económico Europeo_. If I remember correctly, you had issues with a marriage license, right? Where'd you get married? Do you have the certificate on you? If so, MAKE SURE you bring it with you when you go to extranjería to tell them they messed up. I would also request an interview with extranjería that will prove your marriage is not one for residency purposes. I've had friends who have had to go through this process. They apparently ask silly things like "What perfume does your spouse wear? What side of the bed do they sleep on?" etc. 

I *do not think* you need to get a lawyer involved at this point. In fact, I'd be ticked off yet calm. Reading their reasoning, and if I understand your situation correctly, I think they just messed up the processing of your application. Get to extranjería ASAP and MAKE SURE to bring your spouse with you. I have found that I am treated exponentially better when my Spanish husband goes with me, simply because he's got more _"cara"_ and knows how to play the system better. Don't get mean, just be totally patient and state, 
"I received this letter. I was reviewing the reasons for my rejection and I truly think that there has been a huge mistake on the processing of my application. You see, here it says that I'm a 'pareja de hecho' when, in reality, I'm legally married. Here's my marriage certificate and three copies. Here's the paperwork stating that my marriage license is getting processed by the office in La Linea, and we're waiting for our official Libro de Familia. What can we do to make this work? What other paperwork can we provide you with to prove our marriage? Would we be able to do an interview in order to prove our marriage? I know that extranjería has done interviews with other couples..." It's time to kiss the funcionario's butt because he/she is the one with all the power to get things done. 

(I live 1hr away from extranjería. One day, I was missing ONE piece of paper. -rookie mistake- When I said, "Oh, man, what a huge mistake on my part! It's a shame I'm going to have to take another day off of work to come in, all because of my stupidity" the lady asked where I lived. When she heard I was from far away, she made a few phone calls and was able to get things done. You would be surprised how far a little cheekiness and absolute kindness will go with a lot of funcionarios. I have seen so many people, understandably, get aggressive and angry. That will get you absolutely nowhere, but you know that!!)

_Tranquilo_, I have faith that things will work out, especially if you're legally married. Again, I'd go to extranjería *with your spouse* ASAP. I *do not* think you need a lawyer involved yet.


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## Colnago (Dec 27, 2014)

Hi, just reading this thread has raised a concern for myself; we're planning on selling our house and buying in Mallorca. Financially my wife will have a private pension, and we'll have a lump sum of around £50,000 which we'll be using to supplement this in order to live - I won't have any other form of income. We don't have any plans to work as after doing the maths we'll be able to get by covering the bills, medical insurance etc. Are we not free to just move there and support ourselves, being part of the EU and all that? Is a Tarjeta de Recidencia essential? It appears to be something we'd need to apply for once we'd moved...And what happens if our application is rejected? Help! Rob


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Colnago said:


> Hi, just reading this thread has raised a concern for myself; we're planning on selling our house and buying in Mallorca. Financially my wife will have a private pension, and we'll have a lump sum of around £50,000 which we'll be using to supplement this in order to live - I won't have any other form of income. We don't have any plans to work as after doing the maths we'll be able to get by covering the bills, medical insurance etc. Are we not free to just move there and support ourselves, being part of the EU and all that? Is a Tarjeta de Recidencia essential? It appears to be something we'd need to apply for once we'd moved...And what happens if our application is rejected? Help! Rob


The OP is American and it's totally different for him. If you look at the stickies there's one called FAQ's and the first post gives some info about paperwork that, if you want to be legal, you will have to do. There's lots of info there, including something about buying property near the end of the thread.
Get a cup of tea and start reading!


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

Colnago said:


> Hi, just reading this thread has raised a concern for myself; we're planning on selling our house and buying in Mallorca. Financially my wife will have a private pension, and we'll have a lump sum of around £50,000 which we'll be using to supplement this in order to live - I won't have any other form of income. We don't have any plans to work as after doing the maths we'll be able to get by covering the bills, medical insurance etc. Are we not free to just move there and support ourselves, being part of the EU and all that? Is a Tarjeta de Recidencia essential? It appears to be something we'd need to apply for once we'd moved...And what happens if our application is rejected? Help! Rob


You have no reason to worry - the OP in this thread, who is having such difficulty (which I'm very sorry to hear about, btw) is not an EU citizen, which complicates things.

As I'm sure you will have picked up from reading other threads, it is a legal requirement to sign on the official register of foreigners within 90 days if you are intending to live here permanently. There are people who don't bother, but that's a matter for their conscience and if it causes them any problems in the future then I for one would have no sympathy. It is, in fact, advantageous for you to register, for example if you wanted to pay into the convenio especial to obtain state healthcare after one year. You have to have been an "official" resident for 12 months to be able to do that. All you should need to show is proof that you have €600 per person per month being paid into a Spanish bank account or a lump sum of at least €6000 in a Spanish bank account (a UK one won't do for these purposes) plus a comprehensive private health insurance policy with no co-payments for treatment (apparently some people have been informed that this type of cover is not acceptable).


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Colnago said:


> Hi, just reading this thread has raised a concern for myself; we're planning on selling our house and buying in Mallorca. Financially my wife will have a private pension, and we'll have a lump sum of around £50,000 which we'll be using to supplement this in order to live - I won't have any other form of income. We don't have any plans to work as after doing the maths we'll be able to get by covering the bills, medical insurance etc. Are we not free to just move there and support ourselves, being part of the EU and all that? Is a Tarjeta de Recidencia essential? It appears to be something we'd need to apply for once we'd moved...And what happens if our application is rejected? Help! Rob


:welcome:

EU citizens don't have to apply for a tarjeta de resdencia - we just have to register that we are resident which is a much simpler procedure

have a look at the first post here http://www.expatforum.com/expats/sp...-living-spain/2725-faqs-lots-useful-info.html

or this Moving to Spain - what to do & when


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

elenetxu said:


> _Pero vamos a ver... _ My first reaction to the reason they gave you was a word that I'm not permitted to type on this forum due to its TOU.
> 
> Let's see if I understand your situation correctly. I've got a serious case of baby brain right now so I'm sorry if I haven't understood.
> 1. You're *legally married* (church or civil ceremony) to a Spanish *citizen*.
> ...


Lovely informative post! And I love the paragraph that I've put in bold. There are unhelpful, unfriendly people everywhere, but the publicity should go to the majority who either do their job, or who do more than their job.


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## Colnago (Dec 27, 2014)

Phew! Thank you for the speedy - and reassuring replies. Much appreciated guys.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

It definitely sounds like "Kiss*ss" time rather than "Kick*ss". The best approach, as has been suggested, is to be all sweetness and light. Go in with an extended hand (for shaking not thumping) and "Buenos días" in as pleasant a voice as you can muster and, if it is still brass-monkey weather, "Hace mucho frío, ¿No?" Strike up some sort of a rapport which will always help.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

elenetxu said:


> Here are my questions:
> 1. Why does it start with _tampoco_? That leads me to believe they gave you another reason before the one you cited. good point - missed that
> 2. Did they interview you and your spouse at any point?
> 3. Have you taken any action yet?
> ...


I suspect that your points 1, 2 & 4 are at the root of the problem

1) the OP has said in previous threads that he is out of Spain a lot for work, & was trying to get the application in during one of his trips here - so possibly he isn't or hasn't been here for the required period, or it at least seems that way to immigration
2) while employment in the UK is employment - they would be looking for employment in Spain, surely, to show that he intends to reside here with his wife. Yes in the 21st century it's possible to work in one country & live in another - but possibly it's one more aspect adding doubt
4) the OP has said that most of their funds are in the UK - again, goes to adding doubt as to intention to reside in Spain with his wife


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## 213979 (Apr 11, 2013)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Lovely informative post! And I love the paragraph that I've put in bold. There are unhelpful, unfriendly people everywhere, but the publicity should go to the majority who either do their job, or who do more than their job.


Thanks PW!

Truth be told, I was sitting on the couch and reading the forum on my tablet. I got so angry for the poor OP that I fired up the computer and did some research. I really think that some nitwit at extranjería messed up. _Sin más._


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## 213979 (Apr 11, 2013)

xabiachica said:


> I suspect that your points 1, 2 & 4 are at the root of the problem
> *
> 1) the OP has said in previous threads that he is out of Spain a lot for work, & was trying to get the application in during one of his trips here - so possibly he isn't or hasn't been here for the required period, or it at least seems that way to immigration*
> 2) while employment in the UK is employment - they would be looking for employment in Spain, surely, to show that he intends to reside here with his wife. Yes in the 21st century it's possible to work in one country & live in another - but possibly it's one more aspect adding doubt
> 4) the OP has said that most of their funds are in the UK - again, goes to adding doubt as to intention to reside in Spain with his wife


There is no required period of *previous* residency time in order to apply. You can apply the first day you arrive. You cannot apply for residency if you're just going to stay for two months; that would be a waste of time. Then again, from what I read today I think you cannot be out of the country for periods of over two months without them no longer considering you a resident (once you have residency).

I hope, and doubt, number two isn't true. He could just sign up for _autónomo_ and he'd be golden. 90% of my work from June-September is "exported". Nobody should bat an eye. 

As for number four, I'm in the same boat. I just don't trust Spanish banks right now. He just needs proof that he's got funds enough to support himself. 

I'm really interested in hearing the reason that was before the one he cited. As I said, the reason cited started with "tampoco". Something else has got to be up...


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

elenetxu said:


> *There is no required period of previous residency time in order to apply. You can apply the first day you arrive.* You cannot apply for residency if you're just going to stay for two months; that would be a waste of time. Then again, from what I read today I think you cannot be out of the country for periods of over two months without them no longer considering you a resident (once you have residency).
> 
> I hope, and doubt, number two isn't true. He could just sign up for _autónomo_ and he'd be golden. 90% of my work from June-September is "exported". Nobody should bat an eye.
> 
> ...


maybe I worded it badly - what I meant was that they seem to doubt that he has been or intends to be here with his wife for a long enough period

now THAT'S a good idea!

me too.....


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## 213979 (Apr 11, 2013)

xabiachica said:


> maybe I worded it badly - what I meant was that they seem to doubt that he has been or intends to be here with his wife for a long enough period
> 
> now THAT'S a good idea!
> 
> me too.....


I like the color coding. I can understand it easily! 

About the red bit, I get you now. As I said earlier, I've been a little dumb lately. :confused2: I'm sorry!


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## director1 (Dec 28, 2013)

kimuyen said:


> Not sure which state is your home state in the US but you could request your certificates through a company like https://www.vitalchek.com/. I lived in Maryland and the Maryland government website at the time provided this information. I assume vitalcheck is an official partner in other states also. I think it cost me about $45 for a birth and marriage certificate (I did not pay for rushed shipping to my parents' address in the US; it would cost you a bit more for the rushed shipping) and about 7 days. One reason I had to go through a company because a friend or relative would not be able to provide the ID to match with the record holder. I then asked my cousin to take the certificates to the Department State of MD to get the apostille stamp, which was a five minute process. Getting these documents to Spain is an expensive process though. It costs close to 70 euros to send it via UPS or FedEx (2-3 days).
> 
> Good luck!


Hi Kimuyen*–*

Thanks for this. Yeah, the New York City certificates seem to take much longer for some reason. It's Vital Check, but because they are "vault copies" of the birth certificates, in the past they have taken nearly a month for the DOH to issue and send, and then they have to be accredited and stamped by the city and THEN they have to be sent to the state (in Albany – nowhere near any of my relatives) for an apostille. So all in all it's taken about two months in the past –*just seems to be a pretty slow process.


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## director1 (Dec 28, 2013)

Hi Elenetxu,

Thank you so much for your lengthy and thoughtful reply, I was so grateful to read your words. You’ve understood the situation correctly –*I am legally married and my wife is Spanish, and the only reason they gave for the denegación was what they stated in that line. To answer the questions you've posed:

1. Why does it start with tampoco? That leads me to believe they gave you another reason before the one you cited.
- I felt the exactly the same about the “tampoco” –*because there were no other reasons given before! In the previous two paragraphs, they listed two other “fundamentos de derecho”, but they were both just references to various Real Decretos (e.g. 240/2007) and Leyes (e.g. 16/2012). Apparently in this case used here, the “Asimismo tampoco cumple con…” that the paragraph begins with is really just legalese language, though I agree it is very confusing. I read the letter over and over to look for other clauses the tampoco was referring to.

2. Did they interview you and your spouse at any point?
- No, they never interviewed us. I made a cita with the extranjería, submitted my documents and that was it. I didn't even realise that the extranjería did these kind of interviews. They were going to interview us at the Spanish consulate in London in order for them to send off our marriage papers to La Linea, but the interview date they gave us with the consul was months in the future, and then they ended up cancelling that date, and eventually just told us to send the marriage certificate straight to La Linea without going through the consul. Super annoying.

3. Have you taken any action yet? 
- No action taken yet. Only just received my rejection letter and so have spent the past few days wondering what in the world to do. I am meant to have a meeting with a good immigration laywer in Madrid tomorrow*– want someone to go through the language in the letter carefully with me to explain everything and tell me the legal case they are trying to make, and then talk through my options.

4. Do you have a copy of your residency application? (You should.)
PLEASE check to make sure you didn't accidentally tick a box saying pareja de hecho? *
- I definitely checked “conyuge” on my application –*have it right here.

And to respond to your some of your statements:

Basically, you've got to: 
1. Be planning to stay with your wife in Spain for a period of over three months. WE ARE PLANNING TO STAY HERE. AS OF TODAY, I HAVE BEEN HERE FOR THREE MONTHS AND TWO DAYS (WITH TRIPS IN BETWEEN TO VISIT THE US, THE UK AND FRANCE).

2. Be employed OR a student –*I HAPPEN TO BE EMPLOYED AT THE MOMENT –*BUT SURELY ONE DOESN’T ACTULLY *NEED* TO BE EMPLOYED TO RESIDE IN SPAIN IF ONE IS MARRIED TO A SPANIARD. I MEAN, MY WIFE COULD HAVE A JOB, AND I COULD BE UNEMPLOYED –*OR WE COULD BOTH BE OUT OF WORK. NO?

3. Have health insurance I DO, WITH IMQ

4. Have "sufficient money to take care of yourself" I SHOWED A BANK STATEMENT OF MY WIFE’S WITH WELL OVER THE €6,000 NEEDED TO PROVE SOLVENCY (AS I MENTIONED, THIS WAS MONEY IN A UK BANK ACCOUNT*– WHICH IN HINDSIGHT WAS MAYBE DUMB OF ME, BUT AGAIN AT THE TIME WE ONLY JUST ARRIVED TO SPAIN A FEW WEEKS BEFORE AND SO EXCHANGED OUR A FEW HUNDRED POUNDS INTO EUROS).

5. Be married or in a civil partnership WE WERE MARRIED LAST MARCH

I appreciate your suggestion of going to the extranjería in person with my wife, but I don't think the issue is with the "pareja de hecho". “Conyuge” is definitely mentioned earlier in the letter (and I submitted our original marriage certificate and its translation along with the application, though as I mentioned not the Libro, so there shouldn’t be a doubt about the fact that we're applying with me as a spouse and not a partner). My wife’s take (admittedly she does not have a law degree) on the use of the “pareja de hecho” line in the rejection paragraph was that because "conyuge" was already used prior in the letter, “pareja de hecho” was here just sort of a more ‘literary’ way for them to refer to the spouse (even though of course “pareja de hecho” is most often used in Spanish to mean “common-law partner”). But who knows.

The only reason that they give in the letter for the rejection is that my job is not in Spain*–*so by their logic, I can't possibly be living with my wife while working for a university that isn't in the same place I am living. I get the thinking, but surely they must be at least open to the notion that someone might be a black sheep and have a lifestyle that doesn't conform to what is 'normal'.

I love the example of you missing the one piece of paper and ringing them up an claiming dumb foreigner. This is brilliant, thank you. Yes, I would never get angry with them*– and if I’ve ever shown any frustration in front of the extranjería, it has only been at myself.

I appreciate your suggestion that I could probably do this without a lawyer. But this was just my thinking before I applied in the first place, and I think if I had shelled out €100 or €200 to speak to someone who knows the law and (more importantly) knows how the extranjeria thinks, I wouldn't have ended up in this mess. As it stands, the clock is ticking on the time I have to make an appeal to their decision, and I'm heading to Sweden for work meetings this week. I just want to make sure I don't miss the within-a-month deadline in which I have to appeal their decision, otherwise I'll have set myself back a good 5 months if I apply again (since getting all the apostilled birth and marriage documentation from the US and Gibraltar will take another 1 or 2 months). And worse, I might possibly have to leave and move back to the UK while my wife stays in Spain, since I won't have any legal right to reside. Or maybe I can keep coming in as a "tourist" (which feels somewhat disingenuous) so long as I don't stay more than three months each time?

Ugh, man. It really shouldn't be this difficult. I WANT to have believe that things will work out, but keeping the faith isn't easy.

Thank you again for your thoughts and encouragement – this helps more than most things...

Will let you know how things progress.

Best,
Dir


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## Sunny Jim1 (Jan 20, 2015)

What part of Spain is your wife living?


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

director1 said:


> Hi Elenetxu,
> 
> Thank you so much for your lengthy and thoughtful reply, I was so grateful to read your words. You’ve understood the situation correctly –*I am legally married and my wife is Spanish, and the only reason they gave for the denegación was what they stated in that line. To answer the questions you've posed:
> 
> ...


come to think of it you can start a sentence with tampoco - as in 'neither this nor that'

I have a feeling it's just a combination of everything - all the trips out of the country during the 3 months, the job outside the country & the finances outside the country

looking at all of that, you can see why they might wonder about your commitment to actually living here & that they might just be questioning why you want residencia here, when on the face of it you have very little in the way of ties here

any one of those of the 5 conditions, & it probably would have been OK - but you 'appear' not to meet 3 of the five

not saying that you don't - but that is how it might well seem to TPTB


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## director1 (Dec 28, 2013)

xabiachica said:


> come to think of it you can start a sentence with tampoco - as in 'neither this nor that'
> 
> I have a feeling it's just a combination of everything - all the trips out of the country during the 3 months, the job outside the country & the finances outside the country
> 
> ...


Hey there Xabiachica*– 

I think you sum it up perfectly, and that you're spot on with your read of things and considering how the extranjería folks probably view my situation. On the surface I can definitely see how there would be evidential doubt as to my intentions. My thinking was that showing that I was gainfully employed was a positive thing and would suggest that I'm not a benefit seeker, but I guess the extranjería is so used to people without work applying for residencia that my not submitting a work contract would not have seemed weird at all to them. Again, I figured honesty here was the best tactic, but I guess one has to be rather more concerned with the 'narrative' one is presenting than blindly telling the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

I do understand why they might wonder about my commitment to actually living here, though I'm not quite sure how I am going to prove to them that I do want to stay here. We wanted to move to Spain in part because we're both a bit over life the UK. And the idea was that since my work was flexible and she'd been let go of her job in London, we would move to Spain pronto so that she could begin looking for work here, and I'd start to apply to Spanish universities for teaching jobs while still having a salary and finishing off my current research position. Our fear in waiting to move was that in September 2015 we will both be unemployed and up a creek. Since living in Spain (with family) is a good deal cheaper than living in London was (on our own), it means we'll be able to save up some money here to be able to support ourselves in case we both end up without work for a bit. 

I don't know if I'm going to have to explain all this to the extranjería, but I do already feel as though this whole thing is starting to consume so much of my life at the moment. I'm hoping that a lawyer might help find a quick road to a positive result. But if not, maybe the best thing is for us to move back to London until September and for me to come apply for residency again once my UK job has ended. That or I guess I could continue to be a 'tourist' in Spain, though this seems somewhat disingenuous – and could potentially dangerously lead to an "irregular status," which is the last thing I want.

Best,
Dir


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## liliana80 (Sep 6, 2014)

elenetxu said:


> Read "Requisitos" here: Secretaría General de Inmigración y Emigración. Portal de la Inmigración
> 
> Basically, you've got to:
> 1. Be planning to stay with your wife in Spain for a period of over three months.
> ...


I think you have misunderstood this information. These are the requirements for the European spouse, not the 3rd-country foreign spouse. 

"Acompañar o reunirse con un ciudadano de la Unión u otro Estado parte del Espacio Económico Europeo, con derecho a residencia por un período superior a tres meses, por ser trabajador por cuenta ajena o propia, tener seguro de enfermedad y medios económicos suficientes para la unidad familiar, o ser estudiante con seguro de enfermedad y recursos suficientes para la unidad familiar."

Accompany or reunite with a citizen of the union or other member state of the European Economic Zone, who has [referring to the citizen of the union] residency for a period superior to 3 months, be employed or self-employed, have health insurance and sufficient economic means to support the family, or be a student with health insurance and sufficient resources for the family. 

"El ciudadano de la Unión u otro Estado parte del Espacio Económico Europeo, debe cumplir una de las siguientes condiciones: ..." 

"The citizen of the union or other member state of the European economic zone must fulfill the following conditions: ..." 

It's important to point out that the 3rd-country spouse does not need to prove economic resources or give any financial information. However, the European spouse must prove the economic resources necessary to support the family. This is logical because a 3rd-country spouse could be a housewife/husband and have no financial resources to show. Furthermore, when you are making your first application for the tarjeta de residencia, you are not yet registered and do not have a tax number which would allow you to work. Showing a work contract in Spain would be impossible or an admission of working illegally. Remote working from home is also illegal until you have your residency approved and your tax number. You cannot apply for autonomo before that. 

When I applied for my tarjeta in September I did not show any of my financial information, nor did they ask. The only document they were interested in was my husband's bank statement showing that he could support me. 

I understand that the OP's case is unique, and I'm simply adding this information to clarify for other readers.


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## 213979 (Apr 11, 2013)

liliana80 said:


> I think you have misunderstood this information. These are the requirements for the European spouse, not the 3rd-country foreign spouse.
> 
> "Acompañar o reunirse con un ciudadano de la Unión u otro Estado parte del Espacio Económico Europeo, con derecho a residencia por un período superior a tres meses, por ser trabajador por cuenta ajena o propia, tener seguro de enfermedad y medios económicos suficientes para la unidad familiar, o ser estudiante con seguro de enfermedad y recursos suficientes para la unidad familiar."
> 
> ...


Oh man, you are right. Major reading fail on my part. Thank you!


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## liliana80 (Sep 6, 2014)

director1 said:


> The only reason that they give in the letter for the rejection is that my job is not in Spain*–*so by their logic, I can't possibly be living with my wife while working for a university that isn't in the same place I am living.


I think you've hit the nail on the head here, and I share the same logic. As an American, you must have applied for a study, work, or research visa for the UK on the basis of your work contract. Normally, that would only give you permission to carry out work in the UK, it's not a pan-European work permit. So how do you have permission to carry out work remotely in other European countries? Do you have a special research visa which allows you to do so? It's not really considered work? For example, you have said that you carry out Skype conversations with your boss. I assumed that you meant from your home in Spain. However, we know that you do not yet have residency, a tax number, or permission to work in Spain. So how can you legally be carrying out work in Spain? It doesn't matter that it's remote, you must be registered to work in the country in which the work is being carried out. 

If you've only presented the extranjeria with a UK work contract and not explained to them how, as an American, you have permission to carry out work in other European countries different from that which issued you your work residency permit, then why would the extranjeria consider remote working as a possibility? Normally that would put you into an illegal working situation. The extranjeria can only consider the possibility that if you have a UK work contract and the UK issued you a work and residency permit, then you must be working in the UK, and nowhere else. So that then begs the question for them, if you work in the UK, why are you applying for residency in Spain? 

Perhaps you haven't given us all the information about your situation.


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## director1 (Dec 28, 2013)

Hi Liliana,

Very sorry for the huge delay in getting back to you, work has taken over my life recently. I’m not sure if I’ve left something out of my story, though I can't think of anything I might leave out that would affect my rights in Spain given that the only citizenship I have is American. I did my PhD in the UK, and lived there for ten years (but mostly as a student, hence why I don’t have permanent residency there). My wife and I lived in the UK before moving to Spain, and I have had an Tier 2 Migrant Workers visa for my university job. 

My job in the UK can be carried out completely independent of where I live*– I basically write articles, send emails and make phone calls (yes, I too am uncertain why I need a PhD for it!). I spent two months living in Greenland last year working in the same job, and I was home in the US for six weeks last Christmas working in the same job – I don’t have any legal “right to work” in Greenland, and while I have the right to *reside* in the US because of my passport, do I have the legal right to spend time in the US working for a UK university? I think so. If the UK Home Office issues me a work visa for my job in the UK, that visa offers me the right/privilege of living in the UK during the duration of the job. But it does not demand that I am actually in the UK to perform the job. So as long as my employers were ok with the idea, I could (for example) live in Texas or on Mars and do the work from there. My UK work visa wouldn’t contradict that. So it seems to me that the same should be the case for Spain; I am asking for right to reside based on my marriage to a Spanish/EU citizen. My British job in any case is ending in a few months, and I’m starting to look for work here. Whether, or where, I work shouldn’t really matter. That being the case, it does seem that I never should have been dumb/honest enough to inform the extranjería that I had a job in the UK.

My argument with the extranjeria, now, is that as a spouse of a Spanish citizen, I legally have the right to reside in Spain – this should be the case regardless of whether I am unemployed, working as a freelance translator or working for a non-Spanish company (provided the company allows me to work remotely). My work status elsewhere – whether I have citizenship in that country or a work visa or permanent residency – should be irrelevant when it comes to my rights the spouse of a Spanish (or, indeed, EU) citizen. No?

Still, the question you pose: “How can you legally be carrying out work in Spain? It doesn't matter that it's remote, you must be registered to work in the country in which the work is being carried out.” Is a good one, and raises a number of interesting questions about contemporary mobility and labour: what ‘residence in’ really means, what ‘working for’ really means. There have been legal cases in the past that argued against a denial of citizenship based on residency grounds. One of them (3 March 2000) involved a spouse who was empadronado due to work in a different place than her spouse. The ruling read:

"según el artículo 69 del código civil, se presume, salvo prueba en contrario, que los cónyuges viven juntos y el artículo 87 párrafo 2º del propio Código añade que la interrupción de la convivencia no implicará el cese efectivo de la misma si obedece a motivos laborales, profesionales o análogos; frente a esta presunción legal, la única prueba tenida en cuenta por la Administración consiste en otra presunción derivada del hecho de que en el expediente constan domicilios distintos de los cónyuges ; ahora bien, hay que tener presente que el recurrente aportó el justificante de convivencia expedido por el Ayuntamiento de Terrassa que le fue requerido por la Administración y que en el informe de la Dirección de la Policía se dice que es pintor artístico por cuenta propia, lo que justificaría su desplazamiento temporal por razones laborales, y que domicilio donde residen es alquilado pagando una determinada renta mensual y, frente a ello, la Administración no ha aportado prueba alguna que desvirtúe el contenido de dichos documentos y que pueda destruir la presunción legal de convivencia por lo que la Resolución impugnada vulneró las normas mencionadas y procede, por ello, anularla.

So it would seem that if spouses LIVE together but have to travel for work in other places, including outside the country, that this should still not nullify either the convivencia or the right to reside of the spouse.

I’ve since hired an immigration lawyer and have met with her to file the appeal. She was taken aback that given the proof I presented about available funds and current ingresos, that they rejected my application. We are filing an appeal with a signed letter from my employer stating that I have the right to reside (at least, as far as the University is concerned – I’m not talking about the UKBA here) anywhere and that the duties of my job do not fix me to any one particular location, as well as with a letter from the University’s HR office stating that my official permanent residence with the University is in Spain, as well as with an extracto from the Spanish bank account I have now opened showing regular, almost daily movimientos with my Spanish debit card. She is confident this will be enough to overturn the decision.

Until then, though, I suppose the decision is in the hands of the Gods. Thanks again for your words and thoughts. Mine is an odd and rare case, though not an absurd one I don't think – at least not in this day and age...

Best,
Dir

[NOTE: I wrote this post a few weeks ago, and will update about this in a separate post in just a moment – with a tale of success!]


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## director1 (Dec 28, 2013)

So, I just heard yesterday that my appeal against my rejection for the tarjeta de residencia was reviewed and the denegación was overturned! It took less than three weeks from the date we filed! I am overjoyed, obviously. Along with the lawyer I hired (for about €300 in fees), we argued that having a job in another country was not in fact a reason to deny the right to reside, provided that the job could be done from within Spain –*for which we provided several pieces of evidence, including signed/translated letters from my boss and the human resources department of my university. The extranjería agreed based on this proof*–*admitting that it was not a 'traditional' work arrangement –*and overturned the decision of denial for the tarjeta. 

The only proviso they gave was that I now have to supply them with the libro de familia / certificado literal de matrimonio, which I did not submit originally when making my solicitud since I didn't have it (I instead gave them the original and translated copy of our Gibraltar marriage certificate, which they accepted at the moment of my solicitud*– though oddly they did not mention this as a reason for denegación in the original ruling). They said I have two months two supply the extranjería with proof that the marriage is registered with the Registro Civil. 

BUT NOW the problem is –*brace yourselves here –*that the Registro Civil in La Linea de la Concepción says they are having delays with the courier company who sends out the Libros de Familia/Certificados!!! Could this get any more Monty Pythonesque!? Although they say that they registered our marriage a month and a half ago (they even gave me the date and Page and Tomo numbers), and that they sent the documents out shortly after, the Correos company (i guess a private firm rather than the spanish postal system?) is having big delays because they are so busy. T H I S I S A B S U R D. They told me to ring back after Easter to see whether the documents have been sent yet out or not.

I'm really not sure what to do other than scream and cry and pray. Still, it's mostly good news. I think. Just have to figure out how to sort out the Libro issue. If the marriage were registered with the Registro Central, it wouldn't be a problem since I could access the Sede Electronica and have a legal digital version of the certificado literal printed out. But because marriages in Gibraltar are only registered in the La Linea Registro Civil (and not the Central), there is no way to access the marriage registry documents. Caveat Emptor: marrying in Gibraltar, while sunny and relatively simple at first, may cause you more trouble than it's worth later on down the line!

Anyone out there had any dealings with the Registro in La Linea de la Concepción?

Best,
D


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## chrisnation (Mar 2, 2009)

"They apparently ask silly things like "What perfume does your spouse wear? What side of the bed do they sleep on?" etc. "

Good grief! They've been to see 'Green Card', with Gerard Doopydoo and Andie McDowell marrying for convenience.


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