# It's a little 'rich' for my taste



## Longford (May 25, 2012)

The New York Times is featuring a story about real estate prices in destinations popular with many expats. In particular in San Miguel de Allende. I think the prices being referenced are out of reach for all but the wealthy. Certainly out of reach for me.










http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/06/greathomesanddestinations/real-estate-in-mexico.html?_r=0


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## mickisue1 (Mar 10, 2012)

"...only homes in the moderate range of $400,000 to $600,000 are selling..."

SNORT. 

Moderate. 

ROFL.


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

mickisue1 said:


> "...only homes in the moderate range of $400,000 to $600,000 are selling..."
> 
> SNORT.
> 
> ...


As far as I am concerned the Real Estate column in the New York Times is a version of "How the rich and famous live". It rarely includes any houses that seem reasonable to me.


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## Souper (Nov 2, 2011)

It is all relative, in many parts of the USA, Canada, the price range of $400,000 to $600,000 is moderate, not for the wealthy and we all know San Miguel is an expensive Mexican city.

The article mentioned buyers are downsizing from expensive properties in North American bought during the real estate boom in the early 2000's, so they might be bargain shopping just like we all do.


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## mickisue1 (Mar 10, 2012)

Souper said:


> It is all relative, in many parts of the USA, Canada, the price range of $400,000 to $600,000 is moderate, not for the wealthy and we all know San Miguel is an expensive Mexican city.
> 
> The article mentioned buyers are downsizing from expensive properties in North American bought during the real estate boom in the early 2000's, so they might be bargain shopping just like we all do.


I understand that. But even the writers for the NYT know that in most parts of MX, and even in most of the US, $400k to $600K buys a very nice house.

I was watching HGTV the other night, and a young woman in ATL, an undergrad college student, was buying her first home. 

She was approved for $103K, which in the suburbs where she was looking, could find her a two story, brick front home with about 2000 sq ft or more.

I have no idea what $400K would get in the ATL suburbs. A whole lot more than in my city, certainly more yet, in NYC.

But I do expect writers to have some perspective, even if they're writing for Travel and Leisure. The NYT is read by people from all points on the socio-economic scale.


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## mary kay (Dec 9, 2012)

Here in the Yucatan, ocean front is under 300,000.


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## DNP (May 3, 2011)

mary kay said:


> Here in the Yucatan, ocean front is under 300,000.


300,000 what?


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## mary kay (Dec 9, 2012)

Sorry, I thought the thread was using quotes from the States. 300,000 USD.


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## Mad Hatter (Nov 2, 2012)

I've been watching house prices in Sam Miguel de Allende and there are plenty of homes under $200,000 usd and $400,000 buys a really nice place. For comparison, I looked at NY City and most of the neighborhoods have average sale prices over $1M. Even Harlem average was $744,000. Why would you want to live there?

I will say that housing prices in SMA seem as high as where I live in Washington state and a lot higher than Phoenix.


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## cuylers5746 (Mar 19, 2012)

Some great photography. That corner and bar did not look that nice when we were walking
down the street in SMA last year. It is a classic bar though only about 2-3 blocks from the
main town plaza. I especially loved the old Apothocary, Homeopathy Shops. One from the
1800's and still functioning.


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## conklinwh (Dec 19, 2009)

If you were a real estate agent for Sotheby's as the person quoted, you might think that $400-600KUSD was moderate and it probably is to a lot of the Sunbirds that flocked to San Miguel 2002-2008.
In someways, SMA is sort of a microcosm for a lot of larger places in Mexico that have the really wealthy and the really poor.
I've been tracking the real estate in San Miguel since 2006 when we decided to move from there to Mineral de Pozos(45min) in 2006. I do this via the Atencion which tends to have places on the higher side but does give a snapshot. I've really been amazed by the places for sale under $200K as doubt we could have touched them for less than $300-350K in 2006. Almost to point that I might buy a place there myself.
Think I've posted many times that expat community is almost bimodal. There is the very large artist community that lives very well and also very inexpensively. There is then the what had been a very large sunbird community that bought and fixed up very expensive places. BTW, I see a shift from the latter to people from DF that are buying as a 2nd house.
My net is that this article has a specific, high end focus and that reality is that you have a full range of living options and that any image of high costs should not be the deciding factor.


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## Longford (May 25, 2012)

cuylers5746 said:


> Some great photography. That corner and bar did not look that nice when we were walking
> down the street in SMA last year. It is a classic bar though only about 2-3 blocks from the
> main town plaza. I especially loved the old Apothocary, Homeopathy Shops. One from the
> 1800's and still functioning.


I've no doubt the photo I inserted, which was not part of the NYTimes article, was substantially 'photoshopped.' It's not the view you would see standing opposite the bar. I'm certain of that.


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## cuylers5746 (Mar 19, 2012)

*Home Prices to Drop*

Hi conklinwh;

Good time to buy will be in about a year. We're about to undergo a Worldwide down draft similar to 2008, but worse - Depressionary. Second homes, vacation homes will be the first to be jetisoned desperately for cash. So, start looking for your dream house in SMA and watch the bottom fall out.

Then it will be super Inflationary, which still should kill homes that are financed as interest rates will go sky high. Very probably bottom of this Depression will be around 2016-2017? But, here in Mexico I don't think we'll see the depths that Europe and USA will undergo. Why? The infusion on Chinese money into Mexico (The World's low cost Maufacturer), I think will brunt a lot of that effect. 

I heard that the Chinese just announced they're going to invest "20,000 Milliones de Dolares". That's like $20 Billion right? They seem to be smarter than the Japanese that tried to jam their Manufacturing culture down the throats of the Mexicano's not respecting their Holidays and Vacation customs. Utter disaster, and a lot of their Maquilliadora's got sold. No, Chinese are putting together meetings with Ex President Fox and the major manufacturers in Mexico to see how they can partner, investing in their companies and bringing their know how. 

Next, incredibly the Chinese plan on putting in a big Automobile Mfg. Plant in Michoacan. Great to bring them very much needed jobs, but I wonder what they will do for Security - bring in the Red Army, to protect against extortion and kidnapping?


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## conklinwh (Dec 19, 2009)

cuylers5746 said:


> Hi conklinwh;
> 
> Good time to buy will be in about a year. We're about to undergo a Worldwide down draft similar to 2008, but worse - Depressionary. Second homes, vacation homes will be the first to be jetisoned desperately for cash. So, start looking for your dream house in SMA and watch the bottom fall out.
> 
> ...


Couple interesting points. I spend a lot of time on financial sites and certainly there is a heavy dose of gloom & doomers that went so far as to say that the Dow would approach 600 by Y/E 2012. The sites actually a little more balanced.
Not a big option in Mexico but having a low fixed rate mortgage is a real plus in inflationary times as you can pay off in cheaper dollars.

The Chinese also an interesting story. I 'd like to see how the cultures work out mutual corruption. If anything, the Chinese infrastructure is more corrupt than Mexico.

I do have specific knowledge of the PLA(Peoples Liberation Army) as when I lived in BeiJing, I rented a place in a PLA owned complex. We had what looked like 14 year olds guarding entrances with AK47s'. When I used to go for a run, I really hoped that the guard wouldn't change before I returned. My Mandarin was even worse than my Spanish.


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## jasavak (Nov 22, 2011)

Longford said:


> I've no doubt the photo I inserted, which was not part of the NYTimes article, was substantially 'photoshopped.' It's not the view you would see standing opposite the bar. I'm certain of that.



The NY times has become a worthless rag . Shock value factor is what sells for news . 60% of what they print is fiction or opinion . More Faux news .


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## Longford (May 25, 2012)

jasavak said:


> The NY times has become a worthless rag . Shock value factor is what sells for news . 60% of what they print is fiction or opinion . More Faux news .


Fine. That's your opinion. I suspect the opinion of most people who read what you've been posting will prefer the quality and resourcefulness of what appears in the NYTimes. :boxing:


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## jasavak (Nov 22, 2011)

Longford said:


> Fine. That's your opinion. I suspect the opinion of most people who read what you've been posting will prefer the quality and resourcefulness of what appears in the NYTimes. :boxing:



In the same manner many people also enjoy the quality and resourcefulness of Rush Limbaugh and comedians like John Stewart .


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## circle110 (Jul 20, 2009)

To get this thread back on track -

Six months ago we were considering the possibility of buying a house here in Guanajuato, so we were perusing all of the listings of homes for sale. Since the real estate market in Guanajuato City isn't very big, many listings include San Miguel Allende homes along with GTO City ones. I was surprised to see many places in SMA in the $80 - 120,000 USD range. They looked comparable to what we were seeing here in GTO for that price.

SMA may have some very high end properties but it also has more humble places for sale as well.


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## tepetapan (Sep 30, 2010)

circle110 said:


> To get this thread back on track -
> 
> Six months ago we were considering the possibility of buying a house here in Guanajuato, so we were perusing all of the listings of homes for sale. Since the real estate market in Guanajuato City isn't very big, many listings include San Miguel Allende homes along with GTO City ones. I was surprised to see many places in SMA in the $80 - 120,000 USD range. They looked comparable to what we were seeing here in GTO for that price.
> 
> SMA may have some very high end properties but it also has more humble places for sale as well.


 You are talking about affordable housing at the 1 to 1.5 million peso range. I am sure there are just hundreds if not thousands of local Mexican workers and business owners in SMA with a cool 250,000 to 400,000 pesos for a down payment.


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## circle110 (Jul 20, 2009)

tepetapan said:


> You are talking about affordable housing at the 1 to 1.5 million peso range. I am sure there are just hundreds if not thousands of local Mexican workers and business owners in SMA with a cool 250,000 to 400,000 pesos for a down payment.


I'm not quite sure what your point is. Do I detect a bit of sarcasm?

All I was saying is that not all SMA homes are priced in the several hundreds of thousands to millions of US dollars. I am sure that there are many homes available to fit a much smaller budget as well. I just wasn't looking for houses in that price range at the time so I didn't see them but they no doubt exist.

1 to 1.5 million pesos is more or less affordable for me (and probably a fair percentage of expats), 9 million pesos is not. A SMA albañil will look at a 1.5 million peso house and think to himself "maybe in another lifetime" just like I would think the same thing when looking at that 9 million peso "casota". Then there are people who would shrug their shoulders and think nothing of buying a 9 million peso SMA house for their vacation home.


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## jasavak (Nov 22, 2011)

circle110 said:


> I'm not quite sure what your point is. Do I detect a bit of sarcasm?
> 
> All I was saying is that not all SMA homes are priced in the several hundreds of thousands to millions of US dollars. I am sure that there are many homes available to fit a much smaller budget as well. I just wasn't looking for houses in that price range at the time so I didn't see them but they no doubt exist.
> 
> 1 to 1.5 million pesos is more or less affordable for me (and probably a fair percentage of expats), 9 million pesos is not. A SMA albañil will look at a 1.5 million peso house and think to himself "maybe in another lifetime" just like I would think the same thing when looking at that 9 million peso "casota". Then there are people who would shrug their shoulders and think nothing of buying a 9 million peso SMA house for their vacation home.



We realize SMA is a unique and not typical for Mexico . Although 1 million pesos for us is very reasonable , for the average local factory worker In Leon , GTO 700,000 pesos seems to be the limit . Many workers seem to be buying homes from 250,000- 500,00 pesos . I see small business owners , professionals , government workers buying homes from 700,000 to 1 million or so pesos . Of course some homes are valued more than $1 Million dollars for a select few .


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