# Possibly an Italian citizen



## AmericanWantsToLeave

I've known for a while now that I want to leave the United States, but I wasn't sure where I'd go or how to get there with all the strict immigration laws in place in Australia, Canada, and England. However, I discovered that I may have a claim to birthright Italian citizenship. 

My great-grandfather emigrated to the United States in 1905 and never renounced his Italian citizenship. He fathered my grandfather in 1932, who fathered my father in 1958, and here I am, born in 1995. According to the Italian Consulate's website, birthright citizenship extends to the direct descendants with no limit on generations. I'm going to give the Italian consulate in Detroit a call (I'm from Michigan) and see what they can do for me, however if I'm entitled to citizenship, I have a feeling that I have a flight to Rome in my near future.


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## BBCWatcher

Slow down there a bit. You'll need to make an appointment for citizenship recognition and gather quite a few documents, including U.S. naturalization searches. How far have you gotten?


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## AmericanWantsToLeave

BBCWatcher said:


> Slow down there a bit. You'll need to make an appointment for citizenship recognition and gather quite a few documents, including U.S. naturalization searches. How far have you gotten?


That was the point in getting in touch with the Italian Consulate, is because I need to know what documents I'll need and such. It turns out it was actually my great-great grandfather who emigrated, and my father's cousin became a dual citizen through this process and informed my dad that he's entitled to it as well. Now if I read correctly, even though I've never set foot in Italy before, still by _Jus Sanguinis,_ or citizenship by blood, I'm a citizen. 

So tomorrow, I'm going to call the Consulate in Detroit and see what they need from me.


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## BBCWatcher

Did you check the Detroit consulate's Web site? They direct you there to answer any questions. If your question is not answered there you can call a hotline charged by the minute to ask questions as long as your credit card lasts. Then, if your questions are still not answered, you can e-mail or call. They'll only pick up the phone between 2 and 3 pm, and chances are it won't be your call. (And if they don't see you in the paid hotline log they certainly could hang up.)

Fortunately there are a couple forums that have a wealth of information available on the citizenship recognition process, so, in addition to the consulate's Web site, you can get tons of information online, free. Exercise your favorite search engine.

I would, however, make an appointment now in the manner their Web site describes (e-mail request). There will likely be several months before your appointment, and you can spend time gathering the necessary documents in the meantime.

Is your father applying? Where will he be applying -- which consulate?


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## AmericanWantsToLeave

BBCWatcher said:


> Did you check the Detroit consulate's Web site? They direct you there to answer any questions. If your question is not answered there you can call a hotline charged by the minute to ask questions as long as your credit card lasts. Then, if your questions are still not answered, you can e-mail or call. They'll only pick up the phone between 2 and 3 pm, and chances are it won't be your call. (And if they don't see you in the paid hotline log they certainly could hang up.)
> 
> Fortunately there are a couple forums that have a wealth of information available on the citizenship recognition process, so, in addition to the consulate's Web site, you can get tons of information online, free. Exercise your favorite search engine.
> 
> I would, however, make an appointment now in the manner their Web site describes (e-mail request). There will likely be several months before your appointment, and you can spend time gathering the necessary documents in the meantime.
> 
> Is your father applying? Where will he be applying -- which consulate?


Their website doesn't say anything about what documents are needed. I'd guess they'd have to find a record of my great-great-great grandfather's birth in Marcedusa, Italy, and then need to see the birth certificates of every line of great grandfather, my dad, and myself. That could be a stretch to do, however one of my dad's cousins did it through the same bloodline, though it was one of my grandfather's brothers who fathered her, giving her citizenship. 

My dad has no interest in Italian citizenship, and really, he doesn't get why I want to leave the United States in the first place.


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## _shel

So she, your cousin, would be your first stop if she has actually done it and its not just something she knows she could do and is talking about. 

Same as when doing family history for any reason. She may have some of the certificates you require and information of what else you need, such as naturalisation certificates etc and most importantly where to find them.


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## Bevdeforges

One small caveat when doing family research for any sort of European administrative reasons: 

I notice you say _>> I'd guess *they'd* have to find a record of my great-great-great grandfather's birth in Marcedusa, Italy,<<_. It's normally the case here in Europe that they expect YOU to dig up and request all the appropriate documents. It's kind of like a scavenger hunt.

You'll definitely need birth certificates for everyone in the chain, and quite likely marriage documents, showing the children born of that marriage, and the fact that the father "recognized" the children officially.

The fact that your father is not interested in taking Italian citizenship could pose a problem, but I suppose you can cross that bridge once you get to it. Getting the older birth and marriage records may well take some time and research.
Cheers,
Bev


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## BBCWatcher

I agree with both Shel and Bev, and moreover I don't recommend "cold calling" the consulate without doing at least some (more) homework since you tend to start off on a bad foot, and it's to your advantage to have the consulate at least neutral when deciding your citizenship recognition application. This is an administrative procedure with too few overworked consular officers handling these cases.

Your father (and any other living ascendants in your line) would need to cooperate in the process by signing a declaration form -- what some consulates arbitrarily label "Form 3." He can decline to be recognized as a citizen if he wishes -- that's OK. He would need to sign that declaration form in the presence of a notary (who checks his ID and notarizes the form), and then that notarization must be apostilled with that state's Secretary of State. Or, better yet, he accompanies you to your citizenship recognition appointment and signs the declaration in the presence of the consular officer.

Yes, undoubtedly your cousin would know what documents she had to submit to her consulate. Ideally she could provide you with a complete set of photocopies (or e-mail you the scanned images), and then you can busy yourself assembling original copies (with apostilles) of substantially the same set of documents to submit to your consulate. The differences would occur where your part of the family tree branches off. Fortunately she would have had her documents translated into Italian, so you shouldn't have to repeat that work and can just attach the translations she had done. Unless the consulate insists that you use one of their recommended translators, but even then you can provide that translator with the translations already done by another translator.

If the Detroit consulate's Web site is not informative you can visit sister consulate Web sites. New York, Philadelphia, and Boston all have pretty good citizenship recognition sections on their Web sites, as examples. But the real magic comes by finding the forum(s) with communities of individuals who have gone through the citizenship recognition process in Detroit and elsewhere (and who are currently going through the process). There's an enormous amount of excellent, accurate, current shared wisdom on the Internet about this subject, and it's free. Use your favorite Internet search engine to find those forum(s) and that information. You can presumably skip the "Do I qualify?" stage and zoom right to the "make an appointment/assemble my dossier" parts of the process.

This will not be a process that results in your being recognized as an Italian citizen next Tuesday -- with the possible exception of an Italian professional football (soccer) team eagerly trying to recruit you to their squad, but then you probably wouldn't have posted your questions here and they'd be handling all the details for you already. Those recognition cases have been known to move forward with amazing speed. There are certain priorities in life, and football is one of them. 

You didn't really ask, but indeed you have the option of applying where you have residence, and that includes Italy. However, if you parachute into Italy to apply at a local commune -- yes, you could do that -- you must first apply for provisional residence permission, and you only get to do that if you have what looks on its face anyway to be an adequate dossier plus an apartment rental (not a hotel) or at least a bedroom in a willing friend's/relative's house. Then you get to submit your request for citizenship recognition, and, assuming your dossier is accepted for assessment, you get to wait in Italy _without the ability to work_. That's right, you're provisional ("PdS per attesa cittadinanza"), and you have no right to employment with that status. The commune can process your application at whatever their bureaucratic pace is (usually some flavor of slow), and they usually have to correspond with one or more Italian consulates anyway as part of their processing.

In short, do not presume any particular schedule in this process. You can't assume the process will be complete to start a job on date X, for example. It takes as long as it takes, and you might have a couple rounds with your consulate to get your documentation in proper order. Like I said, the forum(s) are extremely valuable to coach you through this.

In bocca al lupo.


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## AmericanWantsToLeave

I'm looking at the forms you have to fill out, and it only goes back so far as great-grandparents. My great-grandfather was born in Uniontown, Pennsylvania to my great-great grandfather, who was the one born in and emigrated from Italy. Could this be a problem, even though as a birthright citizen, I'm not sure that he ever claimed his citizenship. Since my dad's cousin was a generation before me, he would have been her great-grandfather.


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## accbgb

AmericanWantsToLeave said:


> I'm looking at the forms you have to fill out, and it only goes back so far as great-grandparents. My great-grandfather was born in Uniontown, Pennsylvania to my great-great grandfather, who was the one born in and emigrated from Italy. Could this be a problem, even though as a birthright citizen, I'm not sure that he ever claimed his citizenship. Since my dad's cousin was a generation before me, he would have been her great-grandfather.


No problem; you just use a blank sheet of paper to add as many additional generations as required.

There is no generational limit unless your ancestor left "Italy" prior to 1861 when modern Italy was formed from multiple nation-states. Even in that case, it depends on whether your ancestor was still alive in 1861 and other factors.


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## BBCWatcher

I agree with accbgb, but these questions and oh-so-many-more are well answered on the Internet in the excellent one or a couple forums that specifically serve those seeking Italian citizenship recognition. Please do seek them out, seriously.


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## cpa21

*My experience*

I went through the recognition process in New York. From soup to nuts it took me three years. I was very fortunate in that I have a name that is not common. Because my ancestor immigrated to Brooklyn I was able to look up the naturalization records online. 

Even with all the records the consulate can still be arbitrary. Waiting times for an appointment can be long. Detroit has a reputation for prompt appointments. Miami can take two years for an appointment.

Since your cousin went through the process all the documents through your grandfather have been located. It may take some time and cost some money but all the heavy lifting has been done for you.

If your cousin went through the same consulate you will go through you will not need to reproduce all the documents through your grandfather. You will only need to add your father and forward.


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## cpa21

BBCWatcher said:


> I agree with accbgb, but these questions and oh-so-many-more are well answered on the Internet in the excellent one or a couple forums that specifically serve those seeking Italian citizenship recognition. Please do seek them out, seriously.


BBCWATCHER is an admin on one of those sites. I think the site is very good. Is there a rule against posting a link to his site?


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## xabiaxica

cpa21 said:


> BBCWATCHER is an admin on one of those sites. I think the site is very good. Is there a rule against posting a link to his site?


Yes there is..... Rule 10


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## cpa21

Is it ok to provide the url but not the link?


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## xabiaxica

cpa21 said:


> Is it ok to provide the url but not the link?


nope - sorry, nor even the name of it


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## _shel

Since when is a url different to a link! Ends up in the same place you just use it differently.


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## tominitaly

*I'd book that flight*



AmericanWantsToLeave said:


> I've known for a while now that I want to leave the United States, but I wasn't sure where I'd go or how to get there with all the strict immigration laws in place in Australia, Canada, and England. However, I discovered that I may have a claim to birthright Italian citizenship.
> 
> My great-grandfather emigrated to the United States in 1905 and never renounced his Italian citizenship. He fathered my grandfather in 1932, who fathered my father in 1958, and here I am, born in 1995. According to the Italian Consulate's website, birthright citizenship extends to the direct descendants with no limit on generations. I'm going to give the Italian consulate in Detroit a call (I'm from Michigan) and see what they can do for me, however if I'm entitled to citizenship, I have a feeling that I have a flight to Rome in my near future.


If things haven't changed you'll need to document all that you've noted and provide this to the Detroit Consulate, pay your fee and you're in. After obtaining the documentation, it took me a couple of months to get my citizenship. I'm now living in Italy and have been here for the last 7 years. I'm not going back.


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## AmericanWantsToLeave

tominitaly said:


> If things haven't changed you'll need to document all that you've noted and provide this to the Detroit Consulate, pay your fee and you're in. After obtaining the documentation, it took me a couple of months to get my citizenship. I'm now living in Italy and have been here for the last 7 years. I'm not going back.


I have a feeling that I'd use my citizenship to go to England or somewhere else in the EU that is English-speaking. But again, I have a number of years (I'm a college kid) to figure this stuff out and get planned.


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## tominitaly

Yep, you have lots of time. If ever interested, I host one or two students to work on my small olive and grape orchard in exchange for their room / board. I live in northern italy in a small hill town above San Remo, an hour south of Nice France. Good luck with your plans and future.


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## BBCWatcher

There's no fee to lodge an application for Italian citizenship recognition.


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## accbgb

AmericanWantsToLeave said:


> I have a feeling that I'd use my citizenship to go to England or somewhere else in the EU that is English-speaking. But again, I have a number of years (I'm a college kid) to figure this stuff out and get planned.


With Italian/EU citizenship, you could finish your schooling in the EU at the reduced costs paid by citizens. 

Of course, it is a little more complex than as simply stated above, however it is doable.


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## _shel

accbgb said:


> With Italian/EU citizenship, you could finish your schooling in the EU at the reduced costs paid by citizens.
> 
> Of course, it is a little more complex than as simply stated above, however it is doable.


 Its actually a lot more complex than that.

Unless willing to take a break of several years whilst living in the EU before continuing with studies you wouldnt qualify for home fees, loans etc as there are qualifying residence periods in most countries.


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## accbgb

_shel said:


> Its actually a lot more complex than that.
> 
> Unless willing to take a break of several years whilst living in the EU before continuing with studies you wouldnt qualify for home fees, loans etc as there are qualifying residence periods in most countries.


A "little more complex" / "a lot more complex" - it's all a matter of personal goals, priorities, values, etc. 

But, it is doable.


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## AmericanWantsToLeave

As much as I want out of the US, I intend to finish my degree at my current university because it's well-known and well respected in my field. So I'm getting my plan together and this is the first part of it.


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## yosheryosh

AmericanWantsToLeave said:


> I have a feeling that I'd use my citizenship to go to England or somewhere else in the EU that is English-speaking. But again, I have a number of years (I'm a college kid) to figure this stuff out and get planned.


Now that is definitely no fun! Go somewhere where you'll learn another language imo and see something different than America... (not to say UK isnt different, but definitely better countries to choose from imo).

For citizenship I am in the middle of doing what you want to do. My mother already got hers, as long as you can trace back to your great grandfather you're fine.

If you have money to spend I can refer you to the guy who is doing it for me, but obviously you can do the whole process yourself with no help as well.

edit: by the way, the process I went thru paying someone else to do it for me and my mother was basically email him sit back and do nothing. it seems there is a lot of work to do if you get all the paperwork together yourself to do it by reading other posts on this thread. so in my experience it has not been difficult to do.


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## cpa21

_shel said:


> Its actually a lot more complex than that.
> 
> Unless willing to take a break of several years whilst living in the EU before continuing with studies you wouldnt qualify for home fees, loans etc as there are qualifying residence periods in most countries.


MOST COUNTRIES are not ALL COUNTRIES. Also, even in countries where the national languages are other than English there are programs and entire universities that are in the English language. Do some poking around if you are interested and see for yourself.


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## Squirrel14#

*American wants to leave*

cpa21, I didn't know that Italy had Universities with the US language, it makes sense as I am currently taking some online courses from a US Institute that are offered worldwide. I am going to look into this. Thanks for the info!


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## cpa21

I could post links but it is against the rules. One university in Italy has gone 100% English in their academic programs. Other universities offer selected programs in English. Try googling Italian medical schools in English or the Polytechnic of Milan.


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## Squirrel14#

*American Wants to Leave*

I'll do that, cpa21, just to get a general sense. Thanks for the info!


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## dtolan

OK you've peaked my curiosity - My family on my mothers side (full blooded Italian) came from Sicily & Rome around the turn of the century (1900). How would I go about tracing my family & how would I determine if any/all of them did not renounce their citizenship ?

Also, since it was brought up - what is the expected cost to have someone do the required research to and compile the required documents & how long.

Thank you for any help

Dan


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## BBCWatcher

It sounds like you already know a great deal. In brief, you always need to find a direct ancestor whose birth was documented in Italy. If you know which ancestor that is, and where that ancestor was born, write to the commune and request a copy of that ancestor's birth certificate.

At some point that ancestor (or his child perhaps) emigrated to the U.S. (in your case). Then you'll need to perform a diligent search to determine when/how that immigrant naturalized as a U.S. citizen. Naturalization, well timed, is actually a good thing. USCIS and NARA have most U.S. naturalization records. Adequately proving non-naturalization requires a bit more work.

You'll need to assemble a complete set of civil records -- birth, marriage, death, etc. -- up and down your direct line back to Italy. At some consulates they also want to see non-line spouses' records. If there are discrepancies among those records sometimes they're a problem, sometimes not. If they're a problem, you have to take steps to remedy them. There are a variety of ways to do that.

While all this research and document gathering is going on typically you'll want to make an appointment with an Italian consulate for citizenship recognition. You can always reschedule or cancel, but there is a long delay at most consulates. At the consulate in Miami the wait for an appointment is currently running about two years.

With respect to costs, if you want to hire somebody else to do the job it really just depends on the complexity of the case, document fees, and research time. It's not really the sort of thing you have to contract out, though. It is something you can do on your own in your spare time. Or hire an enthusiastic member of your family who is also interested. For example, you could come to an arrangement that you'll pay for all postal, document, apostille, translation, and other fees, while that other family member donates his/her time if you don't have enough.

Starting soon (sometime this year) there will be a new 300 euro fee charged per adult applicant for Italian citizenship recognition. That's up from the current application fee of zero. So unfortunately you have to factor that 300 euro into the total costs now.


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## pudd 2

dtolan said:


> OK you've peaked my curiosity - My family on my mothers side (full blooded Italian) came from Sicily & Rome around the turn of the century (1900). How would I go about tracing my family & how would I determine if any/all of them did not renounce their citizenship ?
> 
> Also, since it was brought up - what is the expected cost to have someone do the required research to and compile the required documents & how long.
> 
> Thank you for any help
> 
> Dan


i have a freind who spechalises in this and does not charge much when you have 

more posts i will send you his e mail adress


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## Out

AmericanWantsToLeave said:


> I have a feeling that I'd use my citizenship to go to England or somewhere else in the EU that is English-speaking. But again, I have a number of years (I'm a college kid) to figure this stuff out and get planned.


I'd suggest not waiting and thinking things will last forever. 
Italy is under no obligation to recognize citizenship Jure Sanguinis, it could continue for the next 100 years or it could end with the flip of a statuatory switch . 

While there's nothing in the pipeline to suggest they're going to stop the program (countries that recognize JS such as the UK, Israel, India tend to view it is a deeply held tradition), as an example of how rapidly things can change; BBCWatcher noted in the middle of this month that there is no fee to claim Jure Sanguinis citizenship, that was correct and how its been for 100 years... until July 8th of this year when for the first time, a 300 Euro fee goes into effect for Jure Sanguinis applications. 

Consulate appointments are running upwards of a year or even two (I think Miami is the most backlogged) just to be seen. This is independant of the initial document gathering phase which can take months, with the possible headaches of amendments/modifications/perfections of document errors that may require a court order to fix. 

A lot can change in a year or two. If this is something you plan on doing, you can wait, hope nothing changes and if nothing does, no harm... or, you can wait but if things change, the door may close and you are left out in the cold. 

Just to reiterate, this is not fearmongering, there is nothing whatsoever to suggest that they're about to stop accepting JS but the implementation of a 300 Euro fee is a strong indicator that its on their radar and probably being monitored for positive or negative effect. God forbid a JS citizen move to Italy and commit some horrible crime.


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## AmericanWantsToLeave

Out said:


> I'd suggest not waiting and thinking things will last forever.
> Italy is under no obligation to recognize citizenship Jure Sanguinis, it could continue for the next 100 years or it could end with the flip of a statuatory switch .
> 
> While there's nothing in the pipeline to suggest they're going to stop the program (countries that recognize JS such as the UK, Israel, India tend to view it is a deeply held tradition), as an example of how rapidly things can change; BBCWatcher noted in the middle of this month that there is no fee to claim Jure Sanguinis citizenship, that was correct and how its been for 100 years... until July 8th of this year when for the first time, a 300 Euro fee goes into effect for Jure Sanguinis applications.
> 
> Consulate appointments are running upwards of a year or even two (I think Miami is the most backlogged) just to be seen. This is independant of the initial document gathering phase which can take months, with the possible headaches of amendments/modifications/perfections of document errors that may require a court order to fix.
> 
> A lot can change in a year or two. If this is something you plan on doing, you can wait, hope nothing changes and if nothing does, no harm... or, you can wait but if things change, the door may close and you are left out in the cold.
> 
> Just to reiterate, this is not fearmongering, there is nothing whatsoever to suggest that they're about to stop accepting JS but the implementation of a 300 Euro fee is a strong indicator that its on their radar and probably being monitored for positive or negative effect. God forbid a JS citizen move to Italy and commit some horrible crime.


My dad thinks I'm an idiot for wanting to leave the US and says I'd be paying a huge amount in taxes to both countries and such. This is my only way to leave the US it seems, as these highly nationalist and strict immigration laws in place in Australia, Canada, and England only punish people like me: those who want to move there and be a good citizen and pay my taxes and obey the law and do it the right way simply because I don't have a job in a certain field. That's why they have people overstay their visas and remain illegally because to illegally immigrate is the only way to get in!


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## Out

On whether or not you're an idiot for wanting to leave the US, that's a hot debate but a pointless one to have. Peoples emotions are just too deep. 

I would say this: Cuba is a good example of the different 'phases' of migrants. 
When Castro was rising to power, their smartest and wealthiest flew into Miami on airplanes. 
When Castro finally seized power, their next smartest left in fishing boats. 

When the remaining population finally realized that it was too late to leave freely and they no longer wanted to stay, their only option was to make a raft out of steel oil drums and hope they weren't eaten by sharks or shot by the Cuban Navy... 

As far as the United States goes, I think we're in the 'leave on airplanes' phase. Don't worry yourself debating people who 'don't get it'. Just wish them the best as you leave them behind.

If you renounce/relinquish your citizenship, you have no further tax obligations to the US.


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## BBCWatcher

AmericanWantsToLeave said:


> My dad thinks I'm an idiot for wanting to leave the US and says I'd be paying a huge amount in taxes to both countries and such.


Your father is misinformed.

Under the U.S. income tax code, U.S. persons (U.S. citizens, U.S. nationals, and U.S. permanent residents) residing overseas pay _no more than_ the U.S. income tax rate or the foreign income tax rate, whichever is higher. Moreover, if the foreign income tax rate is lower than the U.S. income tax rate, typically U.S. persons residing overseas pay a lower income tax rate than similarly situated peers living in the U.S. If that's not enough, a higher foreign income tax rate is often recoverable in the form of future U.S. income tax savings, as would be the case when receiving income in a comparatively high income tax jurisdiction followed by moving back to the U.S. and receiving taxable income in the U.S.

The primary provisions in the U.S. income tax code that result in what I just described are the Foreign Tax Credit and the Foreign Earned Income Exclusion.

All that's without any tax treaty. The United States and Italy specifically have a tax treaty that provides more tax breaks to certain individuals and organizations. Also, Italy happens to be a comparatively high income tax jurisdiction, and those higher Italian tax payments may be recoverable from your U.S. tax bill if you return to the U.S.

Please note I'm describing _income_ taxes. Social insurance taxes (payroll taxes), for example, can operate differently, though as it happens the U.S. and Italy have a Social Security treaty, too. Also, taxes are only one part of one's financial life and not necessarily even the most important part. For example, in Italy general tax revenues (income taxes, VAT, excise taxes, etc.) pay for publicly supported medical care available to all Italian citizens (and many others) living in Italy. Medical care is not 100% free for most people -- that's an exaggeration -- but one's out-of-pocket costs are much lower than U.S. norms. Opinions differ, but most people think Italy offers a much better deal on medical care than the U.S. does (even post-PPACA).

Nothing I just wrote should be construed as a recommendation on where to live, but "you'll pay double the taxes" and variously similar assertions are simply not accurate.


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## dtolan

Where did you get the forms (online? - can you pm me the link ) - I would love to see what type of documentations I will need to get. I have traced my family - My 4 great grandparents (Mothers side) - all originated in Italy and migrated around the turn of the 20th century.

Also, who a the Italian consulate do I need to make an appointment with, what documentation should I expect to show prior to the appointment ?

TY


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## J. Gemelli

AmericanWantsToLeave said:


> I've known for a while now that I want to leave the United States, but I wasn't sure where I'd go or how to get there with all the strict immigration laws in place in Australia, Canada, and England. However, I discovered that I may have a claim to birthright Italian citizenship.
> 
> My great-grandfather emigrated to the United States in 1905 and never renounced his Italian citizenship. He fathered my grandfather in 1932, who fathered my father in 1958, and here I am, born in 1995. According to the Italian Consulate's website, birthright citizenship extends to the direct descendants with no limit on generations. I'm going to give the Italian consulate in Detroit a call (I'm from Michigan) and see what they can do for me, however if I'm entitled to citizenship, I have a feeling that I have a flight to Rome in my near future.


It sounds like you are in a similar situation that I was in years ago. I was taking Italian lessons back in 1991 at a local college when a girl in my class told me about dual citizenship. I'll never forget the moment when she told me to.. "hurry up" because they were putting limit restrictions on granting Italian citizenship's at the time. 

So, I inquired about it at the Newark, NJ consulates office. I can't exactly remember how the conversation went but I inherited the citizenship through my grandfather. I found his entry papers in Jersey City records office and made a copy and brought it back to the consulates office. My grandfather entered the United States in 1913, my father was born in 1917, making my father an Italian citizen according to the Italian government. 

There was a law (that I can't remember) passed in the United States during 1933. My grandfather didn't become an American citizen until 1948 which made it possible for me to recognized by the Italian government as an Italian national. If my grandfather became an American citizen before '33 then I'm pretty sure that would have excluded me from becoming an Italian citizen.

The whole process went quite easy for me. I'm sure that things have changed but it seems that they put restrictions whenever corruption is uncovered. I've heard of a number of consulates selling citizenship's and losing their position for it. I really think they (Italian government) don't like it when things spiral out of control, plus it's not fair to those who have (Jus Sanguinis)the right of blood inheritance as the Italian government intended long ago.


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## J. Gemelli

AmericanWantsToLeave said:


> *My dad thinks I'm an idiot for wanting to leave the US *and says I'd be paying a huge amount in taxes to both countries and such. This is my only way to leave the US it seems, as these highly nationalist and strict immigration laws in place in Australia, Canada, and England only punish people like me: those who want to move there and be a good citizen and pay my taxes and obey the law and do it the right way simply because I don't have a job in a certain field. *That's why they have people overstay their visas and remain illegally because to illegally immigrate is the only way to get in!*


It sounds more like your father loves his son and doesn't want to lose him. And if you were to add on all the negative things he heard form his parents and grandparents you'd understand better. I wouldn't let something like high or double taxing deter you, or any other type of illegality. Once you have your citizenship you are legal to enter and stay for as long as you like. And if this is what you really want then I would go for it. But as an older and wiser man I suggest you test the waters first.


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