# Quality of life



## Trubrit (Nov 24, 2010)

I have just read that a Uswitch survey has found that as far as quality of life is concerned, the UK is the worst place to live in Europe with Spain and France coming out on top, I could have saved them the trouble of conducting the survey !!


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

I'm suspicious of surveys. This one was carried out by a consumer comparison site and we have no real idea of the questions asked, how they were asked and so on.
As the participants merely responded to questions about quality of life in their respective countries and many if not most of them would have no knowledge or experience of life in the countries to which their subjective experiences were being compared, the results tell us little.
I'm happy with my life in Spain but then I was happy in the UK and the other countries I've lived in.
Quality of life depends above all on your own circumstances not external ones.
I can think of places in the UK where compared to localities in Spain or France the quality of life would be better -a Dorset village compared to Benidorm or Mauberge, for example. A highly subjective opinion...
Stating that people are happier in say Poland with lower income levels is highly misleading as it leaves out entirely comparative purchasing power. Your lower Polish income will go a lot further than your higher UK income.
Surveys are a bit like those irritating bits of advice you get from 'health specialists' every week, it seems.
Last week we were solemnly informed that drinking coffee reduces levels of depression in women.
Presumably this applies to those women who were depressed at being told previously that drinking coffee increases the risk of high blood pressure....
And I'm sure I heard recently on the radio that eating biscuits reduces the risk of dementia..
Now..if only I could remember where I put the biscuit tin....


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## Horlics (Sep 27, 2011)

Trubrit said:


> I have just read that a Uswitch survey has found that as far as quality of life is concerned, the UK is the worst place to live in Europe with Spain and France coming out on top, I could have saved them the trouble of conducting the survey !!


They put it together based on a number of statistical factors and didn't actually ask anybody what they thought. A quote from their information about how they put the report together...

"While workers in the UK are entitled to 28 days holiday a year, the Spanish enjoy 43 days off a year, plus almost double the hours of sunshine with which to enjoy them."

If they call up the 20% of people in Spain who currently enjoy 365 days of holiday a year (the unemployed) they may find that those people don't associate the declared average income (another factor) with what's in their pockets. That said, nor will they recognise the retirement age (another factor to Spain's advantage), as many of them will in fact be effectively retired already. As statistics seem to be the flavour of the day, i'll equate their chances of finding rewarding employment within the next decade as three fifths of ****** all.

Most of these surveys are crap, this one takes a leap beyond, to a whole new level of crappery.


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## Horlics (Sep 27, 2011)

mrypg9 said:


> we have no real idea of the questions asked, how they were asked and so on


They didn't ask anybody anything. The method of producing the survey is documented and could be summarised as "they Googled it". Also, the research was conducted in August 2010, so is more than a year old. In this day of information travelling at light speeds (and faster, if you send it by Neutrino, and believe the Italians), it's surprising to be discussing this 14 months after the event. uSwitch could have course have re-Googled and then been able to say it's current, but that would involve a bit of work to improve accuracy and relevance, and since when did that matter to survey monkeys.


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## Guest (Sep 29, 2011)

I never read surveys /statistics nor the like anymore. Waste of time and effort generally by all involved.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Well, I don't care what you all say about surveys, (they always the say the same about them Truebrit) - I agree with it. I'm much happier living here, in general, than I would be living in the UK. That's not to say there aren't "nicer" places than where I live here, in the UK 'cos, as I've said before, I'm not living the dream, I'm just living life!


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## Guest (Sep 29, 2011)

I don't any surveys to tell me where I am happiest. For now it is here, next year well who knows and I am not worrying about it.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

ValL said:


> I don't any surveys to tell me where I am happiest. For now it is here, next year well who knows and I am not worrying about it.


I agree! Happiness is what you think it is!

But, to be fair I don't think "surveys" like this are done in order to tell you where you are happiest, or to tell you what you should be doing with your life. And as to worrying about it, well everyone to their own. They are probably just keeping a load of bods in employment, and if they are HAPPY doing that...


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Is quality of life the same as happiness though?

Quality of life can be measured by indicators like amount of leisure time, disposable income etc. But they don't necessarily make you happy.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Alcalaina said:


> Is quality of life the same as happiness though?
> 
> Quality of life can be measured by indicators like amount of leisure time, disposable income etc. But they don't necessarily make you happy.


I think that is the crux of it. And it's a very lucky person who is happy all the time, 24/7.
How happy you are (and how do you define 'happiness'?) depends on so many factors, subjective and objective.
Whilst it would be hard to live anywhere without the means to make ends meet and without a roof over one's head, having vast amounts of money doesn't always bring happiness. We have only the troubled lives of so many 'celebrities' to attest to that. 
Personal relationships, health, hobbies and interests...all these are part of contentment, surely.
If I keep my reasonably good health, have enough to live where and how I want to live, continue my very long relationship with my partner and best friend, as long as my family and frioends are well and happy....I'm a happy soul, no matter where I am.
And at least my friends like me for what I am, warts and all, and not for any money they think I might have. 
I was really happy last week, lying on a grassy knoll by a babbling brook in deepest rural Portugal, with OH and Our Lirttle Azor beside me, reading John Cole's memoirs....
And I'm happy now, posting this in our study in our house in Spain.
,


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## tigertina (Sep 26, 2011)

Trubrit said:


> I have just read that a Uswitch survey has found that as far as quality of life is concerned, the UK is the worst place to live in Europe with Spain and France coming out on top, I could have saved them the trouble of conducting the survey !!



I agree cost of living has gone up so much and the average hourly rate has gone down. NI has also gone up i pay nearly 400 a month . Robbery of the working class i say.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

tigertina said:


> I agree cost of living has gone up so much and the average hourly rate has gone down. NI has also gone up i pay nearly 400 a month . Robbery of the working class i say.


I'm curious - what is the % of salary now for NI for a self-employed person in the UK??


here in Spain, you pay the same every month whether you earn anything or not


in the UK the actual monetary amount would vary depending on what you earned, wouldn't it?



I was just wanting to compare what I would pay there with what I pay here, since my income can vary enormously week to week & month to month - just out of curiosity - because we are always hearing that it's so much more expensive to be self-employed here that in the UK


actually forget that - I just found this http://nicecalculator.hmrc.gov.uk/Class1NICs1.aspx


I know it isn't for self-employed, & I have no idea what category I'd come under - but it's the first thing I found - if there's a calculator tool for self-employed I'd be interested


I have played around with different categories of payment, & based on an average month, according to this, I'd be paying about half as much in the UK as here - even if I was paying both the employees & employers NI!!!!


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Alcalaina said:


> Is quality of life the same as happiness though?


Pretty much, I think. It's all up to your perception - not only of happiness, but of quality of life.

As happy as a pig in you know what is not everyone's definition of happiness or quality of life, but the pig doesn't know that, nor does he care


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## tigertina (Sep 26, 2011)

xabiachica said:


> I'm curious - what is the % of salary now for NI for a self-employed person in the UK??
> 
> 
> here in Spain, you pay the same every month whether you earn anything or not
> ...


Really see you get robbed where ever you work lol. Thankyou i will have a look at the link you sent.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

tigertina said:


> Really see you get robbed where ever you work lol. Thankyou i will have a look at the link you sent.


that's for working out the UK contributions - here you pay a fixed amount upwards of +/-250€ a month (depending on various factors including age) EVERY month - even if you don't earn that much - or even a single cent - one month

in the UK, because it's a %, at least if some months you earn less, you pay less


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

This 'robbery' is actually a contribution to the costs of your NHS insurance, Statutory Sick Pay, Statutuory Retirement Pension and a range of other benefits.
Whatever country you will live in, you will pay tax and social security payments. How else can health care and other universal benefits be funded? I don't know what rate of tax you are paying but I presume you would consider the 50% rate on earnings over £150k especially outrageous?
The £400 a month mentioned is not just NI contributions ......there is a ceiling on the amount payable so presumably income tax is included in that sum.
If you had to bear the costs of medical treatment yourself not to mention sick pay and retirement pension you would need more than £400 a month to cover.
When I was working in the UK I paid into BUPA and my reduced rate which I got as a local government education staff employee was over £150 a month in itself.
Moaning about tax and so on is fair game - it's an international pastime - but we have to aim our moans and whinges accurately.


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## SandraK (Sep 30, 2011)

Hello my name is Sandra. I am currently a care worker for the elderly. I have three children aged 6, 17 and 19 and I am hoping to move to Spain in a year or two. I do not understand much Spanish, but is there any residential elderly homes for exclusively English speaking senior citizens? How much cheaper/more expensive is products in England, if I keep to local products? And how much does it approximately cost to rent a semi-furnitured four bedroom house/appartment? Also will it be difficult to get my child into an Anglo-Spanish school and what is the educational system like?


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## Guest (Sep 30, 2011)

...and my town just placed 2nd out of 643 towns of Spain in quality of life! Woohoo!


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

SandraK said:


> Hello my name is Sandra. I am currently a care worker for the elderly. I have three children aged 6, 17 and 19 and I am hoping to move to Spain in a year or two. I do not understand much Spanish, but is there any residential elderly homes for exclusively English speaking senior citizens? How much cheaper/more expensive is products in England, if I keep to local products? And how much does it approximately cost to rent a semi-furnitured four bedroom house/appartment? Also will it be difficult to get my child into an Anglo-Spanish school and what is the educational system like?


Hi & welcome


there is one 'brit' elderly residential care home vaguely in my area that I am aware of - it's not huge business here

there are a couple of agencies which employ people to do homecare - the money is appalling though, and qualified nurses often get cleaning/bathing/shopping type work - but at the moment, with so very many brits going back to the UK, work is dwindling


I'm not sure what you mean by an anglo-spanish school - do you mean bilingual?

if so, although there ARE such things in the state (free) system, with the current educational cuts I'm not convinced there will be any 2 years from now

there is of course the option of private bilingual schools - but of course you have to pay for them


currently over 20 % are unemployed here - +/- 3 times the UK figure


would your older children be coming too - unemployment for that age group is over 40%, so they would have very little chance of work



also, the only (foreign) people I know here who have made a fair success of things, have online businesses which don't rely on local income, or one of the parents works abroad



that said, who knows what will happen in 2 years.............things might get better, so start learning Spanish


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

SandraK said:


> Hello my name is Sandra. I am currently a care worker for the elderly. I have three children aged 6, 17 and 19 and I am hoping to move to Spain in a year or two. I do not understand much Spanish, but is there any residential elderly homes for exclusively English speaking senior citizens? How much cheaper/more expensive is products in England, if I keep to local products? And how much does it approximately cost to rent a semi-furnitured four bedroom house/appartment? Also will it be difficult to get my child into an Anglo-Spanish school and what is the educational system like?


I'm assuming you're looking to move to Southern Spain???

I know of one or two exclusive expat nursing homes in my area. When I first came out to Spain I joined a long waiting list to get a job as a carer, altho the hours were long 8am - 4pm, 6pm - 10pm was considered one shift and the pay was 5€ an hour. I did do one trial shift, but was about 25th on the waiting list eventho I was a qualified nurse. I also did a "stint" as a carer out on the road, looking after expats in their homes, again the pay was poor and the shifts were long.

As for schools, well your 6 yo would be fine going into a Spanish school, but your older one - the 17yo would have to go to an international school and do A-levels, the 19yo would be too old to go anywhere I guess .

I woudl say the cost of living is cheaper, electricity is probably about the same and rents are cheaper, but rents depend on where and what condition - like in the UK, you could put the same property in one area and it would be double the price in another - however, renting is cheaper than in the UK

Jo xxx


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## SandraK (Sep 30, 2011)

jojo said:


> I'm assuming you're looking to move to Southern Spain???
> 
> I know of one or two exclusive expat nursing homes in my area. When I first came out to Spain I joined a long waiting list to get a job as a carer, altho the hours were long 8am - 4pm, 6pm - 10pm was considered one shift and the pay was 5€ an hour. I did do one trial shift, but was about 25th on the waiting list eventho I was a qualified nurse. I also did a "stint" as a carer out on the road, looking after expats in their homes, again the pay was poor and the shifts were long.
> 
> ...


Thank you very much for your information Jo. My son is already studying at an English college and my 19yo will probably remain in England, but still want her to have a bedroom, for encase she decides to come live with me. Do you know how much approximately it cost to rent a semi-furnitured four bedroom house/apartment? And would I get enough money for me and my family to live frugally after taking away the essential of living?


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

SandraK said:


> Thank you very much for your information Jo. My son is already studying at an English college and my 19yo will probably remain in England, but still want her to have a bedroom, for encase she decides to come live with me. Do you know how much approximately it cost to rent a semi-furnitured four bedroom house/apartment? And would I get enough money for me and my family to live frugally after taking away the essential of living?


Like I say, rent coudl be anything from 250€ a month in a grotty area or with no transport or in excess of 2000€ in a nice area - it also depends on whether you're inland ort on the coast, in a tourist resort.......... You need to come over, find an area that you like and see what work you can find. 

If you live on the coast I would say that you would need at least 2000€ a month to live a very basic life. I dont think you could earn enough as a carer, even if you were lucky enough to get a full time job doing that. The 17yo, would need to go to an international school to follow A-levels and that would be around 700€ a month. My son was about to go into sixth form at his international school, but decided to return to England instead, financially a good move lol!!

jo xxx


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

It should be pointed out that unemployment in Spain overall is running at 21% plus, it is even higher in Southern Spain: 40% in Estepona, for example. 
Many British immigrants are returning to the UK if they can sell their properties but property prices have collapsed and there is over a million unsold new homes on the market.
Realistically, it is highly unlikely that you will find well-paid permanent work, although it's not impossible. Hours are long and wages low.
There are retirement and convalescent homes catering for elderly and sick Brits and other non-Spanish people but as Jo has indicated, jobs in these are scarce.
Most people who are happily settled here are retired with good pension incomes, professionals with well-paid permanent jobs, people who can work from home such as web designers (although there's plenty of those about) or those with partners who work outside Spain.
If you are single and have nothing to lose then I'd say give it a try but now is really not the time to come to Spain to work if you have family responsibilities.

I've just read Jo's post above and she is quite right. You can rent a two-bed flat round here for around 300 -500 euros a month but that will be a few km inland in a grotty development with a lot of coming and going and with no transport links.
Then on top of that there are utility bills. Internet, phone and electricity are not cheap here. I'm not sure how quickly you would qualify for free health care but you would have to pay sufficient contributions into the system.
Even if you live and work in a Brit area (but why come to Spain to do that???) you will need a good knowledge of Spanish for your many day-to-day transactions.
As Jo says, a fact-finding trip is essential.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

SandraK said:


> Thank you very much for your information Jo. My son is already studying at an English college and my 19yo will probably remain in England, but still want her to have a bedroom, for encase she decides to come live with me. Do you know how much approximately it cost to rent a semi-furnitured four bedroom house/apartment? And would I get enough money for me and my family to live frugally after taking away the essential of living?


as I said before - who knows what will happen in 2 years?

right now - you have little or no chance of making a living - I'm not sure how long ago jojo was looking at the carework side of things - 3 or 4 years ago??? - and it's worse now - even 7 or 8 years ago in boom times it wasn't easy

could you support your family on 5 quid an hour in the UK???

if so, then providing you can get the work/hours - then yes


some areas of Spain are more expensive than others, just like the UK - even different parts of the same town - in my town I could probably save 400€ a month by moving to the other end of the seafront, or 10 minutes inland

a not too bad rule of thumb, is to work on the assumption that you'll need about the same amount of money to live on here, as you would in the UK - yes, you'll probably get nicer accommodation for the same amount of rent, and have coffee and occasional meals out, but overall, for a family with kids, there isn't a great deal of difference in outgoings


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