# Bring a Thai girl to UK with child.



## flashpanther (Nov 19, 2013)

Please don't judge or anything from the little info. I am simply after info regarding VISA. Not assumptions and advice on such. I am not stating assumptions be made but getting to the point. No offence. I apologise. I kindly ask for info. (Okay I'm tired lol).

Any help would be greatly appreciated. Seems a mine field at moment. But this is prep work and research. 

I've fallen for a girl in Thailand. Seen her for 2 days only. I didn't look for it. It happened. 2 days you think... I know. I am going back to see her and talk a month after I left. Will be there 8 nights. I am just simply thinking ahead. Just in case she is the one.

She has a child. A 2.5 year old. She is from Isaan. Dark skinned (if your reading into this). She is 27 and I'm 35. We do look a good matched couple. If anything she is less attractive than girls I'd date in the UK. But she is more attractive inside. Something special is there. Otherwise she has one of those invisible Khmer tattoos lol.

Thinking ahead if it works out what are my options for bring her to the UK with me? 

I don't have any money saved away. I owe maybe 7K on loans and 7k on credit. But I earn 40K a year before tax. University educated. Never married and no dependants. I live with parents at moment but if she came to England I could rent a detached 3 bedroom house tomorrow with view to saving up deposit for first time mortgage and house together.

My question is what are my options VISA wise to get her in the UK with me please? 

I am planing ahead. If this is for real I don't want to draw it out with her in Thailand and me here for months on end. To work we need to be together.

Another question I would ask is how would things change if we married in Thailand or she had my child (or both)?

If we married in Thailand would it help things and could we still marry in a church in UK at a later date with family present?

Please don't read in-between the lines and judge lol... I am planning ahead. Best to research before making a commitment and best to utilise my time on my return to Thailand. IE a passport for her etc if it is serious.

Thanks everyone who reads this far anyway for your time and 'greatly' appreciate any replies.


Andrew.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

To bring your Thai girlfriend and her child, you can only do so if you are already engaged and planning to marry in UK within 6 months of arrival. Alternative is to be married in Thailand. You can't bring her as unmarried partner as you lack 2-year cohabitation. There are three basic requirements for settlement visa for her and her child - financial, which in your case is gross UK income of £22,400 which you comfortably meet; accommodation - if your parents have a big enough house to accommodate all three of you - need two spare bedrooms, that would be the simplest, and after a while you can get a place of your own; and genuine relationship. Here the short time you have known each other would become an issue and you need somehow to convince Home Office that it's all for real with attachment, devotion and commitment, to live together as family for life. Maybe you need to take a bit more time over this and visit often and stay in touch, which becomes corroborating evidence. This isn't a judgment on you personally, but as there are scams involving people from developing countries, you can understand their caution and scepticism. 

Marriage can take place either in Thailand or UK, or even somewhere else where you can legally tie the knot. But since Thai marriage, officially registered with the civil authorities is recognised in UK, you can't subsequently marry again in church in UK, so if that's what you want to do, she needs to come over as fiancée, get married and then switch her visa to spouse leave. 
Having your child doesn't change the situation much, other than increasing your financial requirement by £2,400. It won't be taken as evidence of a viable relationship necessarily and won't make the visa easier to obtain. While living longer-term in Thailand and getting to know each other and respective families better would help.


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## flashpanther (Nov 19, 2013)

Thanks ever so much.
I am weary about scams, I know the the game.
She does want me and a better life for her OR a scam and Thai bf/husband.
If no other Thai involved she would find me very attractive.
Not being blind. Eyes open all the time.
But I know even if not a scam it will be difficult.
Language barrier and the fact <30c temp is cold to her, be shock in UK.
But she may well be the one. I ain't an idiot though.
Much to speak of when I see her for a week early Dec.
But I wanted to do sone ground work.
If it's real I'd want her in UK with me to provide for her.
I can't move to Thailand because of my job.
I am 35 not 60+.
I don't want commitment then leaving her in Thailand for months, year, 2 years.
That isn't a relationship. Wouldn't be surprised most scam stories or failed relationships start this way.
We are on LINE messager via mobiles past 10 days since seeing one another.
I am using a couple translators and we're communicating in Thai script.
I have told her I will work hard to learn Thai.
She said she would learn English. I'll tell her it is a Visa requirement.
Looks like the option for me would be fiancee visa.
That is awful about having a child together not changing anything. A father, mother and their child shouldn't be forced apart. I can imagine so many sad stories regarding this. I'd go ape if happened to me. Esp with all the taxes i have paid and the ammount of immigrants (not being racist here) that enter UK and live on benifits!


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## Hertsfem (Jun 19, 2013)

Is this for real? lol


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## flashpanther (Nov 19, 2013)

You actually read first line of OP?!


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## modzy78 (Jan 15, 2010)

You would also need to make sure she would be allowed to take her child out of the country. I don't know how custody laws work in Thailand, but UKBA will want proof that the child's father is either completely out of the picture or has given her the right to relocate.

I'd also recommend you take your time with this process. While it is a good idea to think about the future (especially when visas will be involved), you're still in the heady early days. Definitely go and see her and her family, stay in contact when apart, and have her visit you for a couple of weeks, if possible. Doing things like helping her and her child get passports is a good idea. You can also look into arranging classes for her to meet the English language requirement while you're apart. That will probably take some time for her. This is a good time to gather documentation and proof of your relationship. Take pictures together when visiting. Go beyond the standard touristy ones and try to include ones with family and close friends. If you attend any significant events like holidays or weddings together, make sure to get a picture or 2.

Also, it's a good idea to start saving payslips and original bank statements (or make arrangements to receive paper copies for the next few months if you're online). That way, you'll have the financial documentation ready to go when you want to apply. There are loads of threads with details about what you need.

Ok, and now for the advice you might not want to hear. I'd say to give it at least 6 months before you consider making an application for any visa. That will give you time to get documentation together. And more importantly, it will give you all the chance to make sure this is a lasting relationship. Moving to another country, especially with a child, is not something to take lightly. If you want a church wedding in the UK, you need a fiance visa. If you'd rather just get married in Thailand and deal with one visa only, you can always have a vow renewal in the UK. It's not a legally binding ceremony, but it could be nice for your family and friends. And I'd say to hold off changing your living arrangements until after she arrives. You don't want to get stuck in a rental or mortgage that doesn't suit your needs. And as a spouse who is still stuck in the housing my in-laws arranged, it's preferable to be given some say in where you live.

Finally, DO NOT HAVE A CHILD WITH HER AT THIS TIME! It will not speed things up, and it will only make things more stressful for both of you. Wait until you know it's for real and you are together to support each other during the pregnancy and newborn days. I know you don't want to spend time apart if you decide she is the one, but that is the unfortunate reality. You're my age, so I'm sure you've learned some patience. I understand that it is really annoying to have to wait for all the paperwork to go through when you want something now, but that's how it is. Get as much preparation done as you can now so that you'll have less time to wait later. It sounds like you are asking the right questions and thinking things through. Remain level headed and enjoy the time you are able to spend with her. Good luck!


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## Guest (Nov 19, 2013)

flashpanther said:


> Thanks ever so much.
> I am weary about scams, I know the the game.
> She does want me and a better life for her OR a scam and Thai bf/husband.
> If no other Thai involved she would find me very attractive.
> ...


 Most immigrants, including your prospective fiancée have no access to benefits. 

Contrary to popular Daily Mail theories most immigrants dont come to the UK to live on benefits because they are not allowed to claim them. No student loans, No job seekers, No disability benefits, no public housing. 

They do however work and pay taxes.


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## flashpanther (Nov 19, 2013)

Thanks Modzy. I am hearing you. I never could see myself in a relationship with a women that has a previous child. I honestly don't know why I feel different on this. I am only assuming she would want her child here with her. I know what your saying re:6 months etc. I know it makes sense. The hard part for me is being apart. Rather than together and getting to really know another, understanding and accepting our different cultures and learning obe anothers language together. I hate the thought of having to send her money for support. It is something I could easier do with her with me. If I am sending her money I cant save so much for flights to go back and be with her either. And it leads to suspision and lack of trust. Not a dig this but many failed stories I am sure are of bar girls being sent support money by men over twice there age. 
I am on the same wave length regarding photos and passports.
Are the pay slips just to show my earnings or proof of me supporting her?
I agree regarding living arrangements. My parents have 2 spare bedrooms. But I can't see them letting her stay there. Who knows. I was thinking a short term rent somewhere while we test waters together.
Anyway this is all just research. Forward thinking. But best asked so i would know what i would be getting myself ibto if real and was to happen. Best prepared.


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## flashpanther (Nov 19, 2013)

Regarding immigrants and benifits. I talk of those I see with large families and houses I could never afford provided for them by the government with mine and your taxes


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## shingle (Oct 30, 2011)

tbh you need to keep your feet on the ground & not let these romantic notions run away with you.
I know of a situation that almost exactly matches yours (say 8 years ago)
The girl had a child already- she left him there for other family to raise so she could have a "better" life with someone she met online & for the duration of his one visit. 

They married- a very business-like arrangement as it turned out- she does everything for him...it suits him on a domestic level obv....but he has always been required to support her financially- & that means that since she lost her own earning power in her own country, he became financially responsible for her parents back there as well as the child she left behind.

She works now, but only mixes with women from her own background & still barely speaks English. Spends little time at home & prefers to mix with people from her own culture- even over the partner.Because she prefers her own language, food etc.


Not saying there's anything wrong with this arrangement. Just to say think it through- from what I've seen of the particular scenario I've witnessed , you just might be the one making all the concessions, even if she ends up in this country. I'd say what others have said- make sure you get to know her properly first.

Now this might not be a problem for you- but,given that you seem to earn a good salary & live in your parents' home, you're maybe not that great at managing your finances given the level of debt you've mentioned. Maybe get that straightened out first as well before you commit to supporting a partner financially? In fairness to your parents, I could see why they would worry.

.


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## flashpanther (Nov 19, 2013)

You have made a lot of assumptions. Leading to irrelevant comments. Hence my original posts first line.
Credit card debt exaggerated following what it will cost me to return to Thailand in December. Loan was for a car and 15 months left to pay. Most people have loans, mortgage, commitments or/dependants. I have a mimimal of these. I live with Parents at moment due to house market valuations being artificially held up by low bank of england interest rates. Only those with a house would disagree in denial. But off subject.

I am after visa advice really and the steps towards for research and forward planning.

Thanks for your concern though. Appreciated. I understand how you are trying to help. Thanks.


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## Hertsfem (Jun 19, 2013)

flashpanther said:


> You have made a lot of assumptions. Leading to irrelevant comments. Hence my original posts first line.
> Credit card debt exaggerated following what it will cost me to return to Thailand in December. Loan was for a car and 15 months left to pay. Most people have loans, mortgage, commitments or/dependants. I have a mimimal of these. I live with Parents at moment due to house market valuations being artificially held up by low bank of england interest rates. Only those with a house would disagree in denial. But off subject.
> 
> I am after visa advice really and the steps towards for research and forward planning.
> ...



With due respect, why come on an immigration forum giving everyone your personal details and then in the next breath "don't comment on them"?

Why not stick to the visa requirements and omit the personal stuff?


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## Lorelli (Jan 6, 2012)

flashpanther said:


> I am after visa advice really and the steps towards for research and forward planning.


Responsible visa advice will also encourage you to understand the weaknesses in potential visa applications as viewed by the UKBA. As such, the comments made on this thread are not irrelevant. 
The perspectives given on this forum will help you make your application more robust. Try not to take them personally.


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## flashpanther (Nov 19, 2013)

Fair comments. Advice appreciated. I've as little as relevant info as needed regarding determining what right visa options apply to me. It is all just for info though in advance so I know what I 'could' be getting myself into. What I mean by my OP first sentence was please don't give me relationship (agony aunt) advice. That is all. Please keep it pertaining to the subject of a VISA while taking in what I have said. I do greatly appreciate all you replies and the time taken to do so. Thank you everyone so far. 

The Visa requirement advice I can get on general threads but some useful advice that makes sense given here. Thank you.

Every relationship is different and hope you can see I aint an old man with ability to just run to Thailand and live their 6 months or more. My job doesn't allow it either. So on that regards I need her with me asap. But yes early VERY days yet. If it worked out... yes I would prefer a marriage in UK. Sure she would still want one with her family in Thailand. I just wanted to know regarding keeping option open to marry in church in UK. So thanks on advising on the fiancee visa for this.

Regarding her child. Questions i would have to ask her. Something extra to look into. If married in UK I guess then would be the time to legally adopt her child unless this is automatic then?! Best not doing before as I think I understand if we split up after in thai law I would still be her father and have to provide for her.

I do understand regarding having a baby with her. I think she'd want one sooner rather than later to tie me down so I can not run away. We are similar ages. Both money and looks wise she will find me a big catch. As long as she isnt attracted to thais only or has a thai husband/bf. I have read about peopke being married for years before reakising she was already married to a thai. Prob who she introduced as her brother. I also read Isaan wonen have to be married by 20. But this is just background. I diverse. I ain't after an agony aunt. I don't need one lol. Can't stereotype. Every relationship and person is unique.


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## modzy78 (Jan 15, 2010)

flashpanther said:


> Thanks Modzy. I am hearing you. I never could see myself in a relationship with a women that has a previous child. I honestly don't know why I feel different on this. I am only assuming she would want her child here with her. I know what your saying re:6 months etc. I know it makes sense. The hard part for me is being apart. Rather than together and getting to really know another, understanding and accepting our different cultures and learning obe anothers language together. I hate the thought of having to send her money for support. It is something I could easier do with her with me. If I am sending her money I cant save so much for flights to go back and be with her either. And it leads to suspision and lack of trust. Not a dig this but many failed stories I am sure are of bar girls being sent support money by men over twice there age.
> I am on the same wave length regarding photos and passports.
> Are the pay slips just to show my earnings or proof of me supporting her?
> I agree regarding living arrangements. My parents have 2 spare bedrooms. But I can't see them letting her stay there. Who knows. I was thinking a short term rent somewhere while we test waters together.
> Anyway this is all just research. Forward thinking. But best asked so i would know what i would be getting myself ibto if real and was to happen. Best prepared.


You don't have to show that you're supporting them when you apply, just that you will be able to support them when they arrive in the UK. Pay slips are just to show your earnings.

As for housing, your parents' house would be fine so long as they are fine with it. It could be fine on a very temporary basis while the 3 of you find a place of your own to live in. Or you could rent on a short-term basis if you are fine with the associated costs. Just have a workable plan.

Also, you could look into a student visa for her to study English over here. I don't know the requirements or if a child can be brought. I think she has to have a certain level of English proficiency. If she can do this, it would give you a chance to test things out before making a bigger commitment.


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## flashpanther (Nov 19, 2013)

modzy78 said:


> You don't have to show that you're supporting them when you apply, just that you will be able to support them when they arrive in the UK. Pay slips are just to show your earnings.
> 
> As for housing, your parents' house would be fine so long as they are fine with it. It could be fine on a very temporary basis while the 3 of you find a place of your own to live in. Or you could rent on a short-term basis if you are fine with the associated costs. Just have a workable plan.
> 
> Also, you could look into a student visa for her to study English over here. I don't know the requirements or if a child can be brought. I think she has to have a certain level of English proficiency. If she can do this, it would give you a chance to test things out before making a bigger commitment.


Modzy I have really appreciated your help. Thank you.
It is good to know what 'I may' have to get myself into.
Best to know before I take it too far.
I've OCD when it comes to researching ahead :lol:
But I will research proper as though I was carrying it out.
Make for good preparation.
Early days but the Cambridge Key test for English (looking at venues now) and Passport App are two things to consider on my visit back to her. 
It would certainly help ascertain if she is genuine about any future development or has cold feet. Same again in regards to me I suppose.


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## OrganisedChaos (Mar 26, 2013)

I think your queries are being covered... although you need to be mindful of the process you may have to face when dealing with immigration in the future, I think you should focus on establishing a relationship first. You seem to have a few things you are weary of yourself...

When I first looked into all of this for my husband to be in 2010, at the time I was surprised that I was expected to evidence a relationship from the beginning when I didn't even know we would get into anything serious never mind have him join me in the UK! 

For now, keep proof of contact and enjoy getting to know her and her child.


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## Newforestcat (Mar 14, 2012)

First of all, I am not being high-and-mighty or judging you or your GF. I don't judge people especially those I don't know. 

I don't think you have to be defensive about having a Thai GF. It does not make you an idiot or a loser. In the end, it is down to your own judgement or lack of it and the individual you are about to invest emotionally and financially with regardless of her race. However, taking some good advice on board when you are madly in love could be very useful. We all have been blind in love when we think we are so sensible and wise at some point! 

I am Thai British and my husband is English. We have been together for over twelve years, working hard, paying UK taxes each year and claiming no benefits. I have spent a lot of my free time on a Thai forum helping Thai expats in the UK with general stuff excluding visa and benefits. So, by accident, I have observed quite a few couples' emotional and physical journey from Thailand to the UK. I would still like to think that for every bad story told, there are also five happy ones untold!

VISA:

- Once you have known each other long enough from first meeting, Skype, Line and phone calls and gathered sufficient evidence, you can start off small by getting her to visit you in the UK for a month. This should be easy if you are her sponsor and she has a permanent job / business in Thailand. The fact that she has a child in Thailand should help this, IMHO.

- Don't get married or have a child in order to get into the UK before you are REALLY sure about each other. I have sadly seen several posts by Thai brides who want to know about getting divorced without any solid reasons, as soon as their imigration status allows them to be in the UK without the needs for the husbands! The posts make me sick. 

- Spousal settlement visa will cost less than fiancé settlement visa in the long run. Your GF can work right away on spousal visa, too.

- Your GF needs to have the sole responsibility over her child so the child can go abroad or emigrate to the UK. If the divorce paper (Kor Ror 6 / คร.6) does not specify that she has the sole custody, then she will need her ex's consent. If he refuses, it could get expensive. If she was never married to the child's father, then it is easy; but she still needs the office where she and the child are registered to issue Por Kor 14 (ปค. 14). She needs two witnesses for this.

RELATIONSHIP & MONEY:

- Manage the financial expectations. You NEED to tell her that £40K per year gross income, by no means, means you are rich. She may need money-management skills and learn to say no. Very often, once friends and relatives know that you have a Farang BF or husband, they will borrow or begs for money and likely they will pay anything back. Don't give her too much to start with. Maybe giving nothing at all for a while is a good test. 

- Get to know her and especially HER FAMILY first. It is important to learn about their financial expectations. If you want to do this quickly, you can ask your GF to talk to her parents about สินสอด (sin-sod) or brideprice (I prefer to call it milk money) and if they also expect her to send money home on a regular basis on top of the milk money. YOU NEED THE FINANCIAL AGREEMENTS FROM THE BEGINNING or you will have some serious conflicts over and as a result of this! 

Milk money is a combination of money and gold or just money and can be high. Generally, it is £5,000 to £xxx,xxx, depending on the bride's beauty, success, education and family background. It is a tradition; Thai men have to deal with this, too. I would not call it selling a daughter, if it is sensible. Sensible parents like mine want nothing or give all or most of it back to the bride and the groom. But you cannot easily reason with the greedy ones or the ones who like to keep up with the Joneses, because if you negotiate a lower amount, they might feel insulted.

- Getting married in Thailand costs next to nothing and takes only an hour or so of your time, if you only do the legal stuff. Wedding receptions or Thai ceremonies can be pricey if keeping up appearances is the case. A wedding reception is £2K minimum. 

- If you have a lot to lose, get a pre-nup before the wedding.

- Your GF needs to seriously learn English. If not, apart from the immigration problems, she, and possibly her family, may become totally financially dependent on you, if she does not work. It will not be healthy on your relationship. Most Thai adult children are expected to send home at least £100 a month. It is a tradition, Thailand has no State Pension apart from the £10 per month some OAPs get which buys very little essentials. Sensible parents will not bother their children unless they really are struggling. 

Knowing enough English to get by is a good start for any expat. Your GF will be far happier. But if she only chooses to mingle with just Thai expats, she will not improve her English skills; she may be utterly dependent on you. Basically, you need to deal with EVERYTHING. This can be a hard work. Language barrier will always be an issue if not addressed. It is not unusual to see a Thai-British couple socialise separately. Sometimes they end up spending there days off apart. 


Last but not least, I think it is possible to know someone so well in a short time. But with language barrier, different backgrounds, thoughts, ideas, beliefs and maybe expectations, how can you be sure? It is easier to like someone when they don't talk too much, and I don't mean this to be insulting. An English employee and a good friend of ours also met and fell madly in love with two different wonderfully kind-hearted women in Thailand when they were not looking. The former ended up with an expensive divorce he is still working OT for and a curable STD (the wife dumped him as soon as he paid for her British passport). The latter lost so much money until he found out that his GF had been using multiple SIMs and seeing multiple Farangs at the same time.


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## flashpanther (Nov 19, 2013)

Newforestcat said:


> First of all, I am not being high-and-mighty or judging you or your GF. I don't judge people especially those I don't know.
> 
> I don't think you have to be defensive about having a Thai GF. It does not make you an idiot or a loser. In the end, it is down to your own judgement or lack of it and the individual you are about to invest emotionally and financially with regardless of her race. However, taking some good advice on board when you are madly in love could be very useful. We all have been blind in love when we think we are so sensible and wise at some point!
> 
> ...


I had started writing a long reply to this… then PC crashes. OK starting again lol but making shorter.
I understand spouse visa would work out cheaper. But I want marriage in a UK church as most people would. We can marry after in front of her parents. Something I need to look more into. Spouse visa or fiancée. What if I just brought her over on holiday visa for month. Cost involved? She may hate the british weather too much. Every Thai I have met shiver with air con less than 29C. We in the UK like air con at 21C. The weather may be too much. But if holiday visa not costing anything no money lost. Followed by a spouse visa, married in Thailand and maybe vows here would be best. Wondering what the vows thing in UK entails now and if in a church. Anyway getting hypothetical and carried out. I have an idea now anyway and all a little clearer as to possible options if got that far.
I do believe most failed stories involve people with large age gaps. No offence intended. But I saw a 70year old man with his tongue down an 18 year old bar girls throat in NEP. I didn’t like it. I paid the bill and moved on. People with such an age gap are fooling themselves. Money is love in Thailand I know. But more likely the Thai is with the Farang for money to support her family back home inc her Thai BF/husband. Less likely with me but I know she may already be married or in love and not told me. Still possible. I have been told many times I am the only man. I have questioned her about other Farangs sending her money. I have given her nothing in 10 days since last seen her. I questioned that I read Isaan women have to be married by 20. She is 27. She says she is not married and that I am the only one for her. I have my eyes wide open. Only using LINE messaging at present. She told be she has moved back to the North East and waiting for my return. I have given her nothing and she has not asked for anything. She posted photos of herself and child at the recent festival 2 days ago. Today she sent further photos of her daughter today on her birthday after I share photos of my family. 
Thais I heard never accept farangs into their society. Only foreigners they accept being Chinese or Korean. The Sin-sod I read isn’t even a Thai tradition. Certainly shouldn’t be forced on a Farang. Another common story I read was the Sin-sod in vast majority of cases is returned in full to the groom. Another post regarding the subject is needed another day perhaps.
I have nothing to lose but my heart. I am not on the housing market yet. Other items are material and not invested. The rest are memories of a good life.
I understand she needs to learn a basic understanding of English for the visa and have the test done. She said she would learn it for me without asking after I repeatedly told her I am going to learn Thai for her.
I understand the family part. I understand family will be the most important thing to her. Having a family with her will move her closer to me but I’ll never mean more to her than her family. I understand the pension part and marrying her is marrying her family. If she became part of me I know I have to take her of her family also. It is the right thing do to. I have to follow and accept her culture if I do love her. Otherwise I can’t really love her now can I.


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## flashpanther (Nov 19, 2013)

CONTINUED...................

Regards you last paragraph… I totally agree. I am not an idiot. I think I am getting to understand the Thai alien culture. You’ll laugh at that statement I am sure and think I haven’t a clue really. Lol. I don’t know her enough. All I know is from the feeling I had with her and the experience. I don’t know if it would turn out like your examples. Not at this time. But I am not afraid to try. I am not afraid to understand. I am prepared. I am open albeit with open eyes. She knew that the first conversation I had with her till the last. If she is trying to play me she’ll know it is not worth the effort by now. Otherwise I guess I’ll meet a fatal end as the only way she’d be able to get anything from me, so perhaps I’ll not see Christmas. BUT ‘if’ we are both serious about one another and ‘if’ we do get along…. We ‘could’ be special together. I’ll not get trapped. Don’t worry about me. Only thing bad that could happen to me is a said contract on me or broken heart. I could gain so much more though. You roll the die, you take your chance. The biggest prepare, accept and gasp their culture, try to learn the language, still to a girl your age. Then you are just hoping she isn’t playing a game on you with a Thai other half.

:jaw:


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## Newforestcat (Mar 14, 2012)

Hi

First of all, there was a typo (in Thai ) for Por Kor 14, it should read ปก. 14. 

As you know, the only two issues with fiancé visa are that your fiancé cannot work and that you need to get married in six months and then apply for FLR(M) which, I think, costs about the same as the fiancé visa. So you pay twice, more or less. BTW, To get a fiancé visa you need to show that you have shared responsibilities (including money) and visited one another (in just one or both countries), etc. You can get married in EITHER Thailand OR the UK ONCE. See Joppa's advice. If you choose Thailand, you can still have another wedding reception in the UK. 

A general visitors visa is £80 currently and is ten times cheaper than a fiancé visa. But if your GF has no job / business, it is unlikely that her visitors visa will be granted, based on many cases I have read about. Unsure about how she is earning a living right now, farming? Anyhow, if a visitors visa is your first step, she needs to start depositing money into her account monthly and try to find docs that prove that she has been working, such as business registration, etc. If she has no job now, I suggest she finds one or sets up a small registered business, a little shop or restaurant. The amount she earns does not matter if you are her sponsor!

Whatever visas you want, you need to start compiling relevant evidence. 

See the visa fees here:

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitecontent/documents/aboutus/fees-2012.pdf

You might be right about the age gap being a major issue for divorce. But the two people I mentioned are in their late 30s and their Thai partners are only a little bit younger. I guess at the end of the day it is down to if genuine affections exist on both sides. 

Being married, by the Thai standard, sometimes only consists of just a Buddhist ceremony and no marriage cert. So, it is possible that your GF has never been married at all or has never been legally married. If a girl does not go to uni, there is a big chance that she gets married in her late teens or early 20s.

Sin-sod is an old tradition that Thais have borrowed from somewhere and it is here to stay, unfortunately. I don't think anyone can force a Farang to pay Sin-sod. However, not paying it, if that is against the parents of the bride's wishes, could mean forcing the bride to choose between her future husband and her parents. You will find that most brides will choose the parents or they could be social pariahs for being ungrateful to the ones who gave them their lives and have sacrificed so much for them. There is a saying in Thai which means parents are the child's Brahma; they are god-like and must be obeyed. I don't believe in it ( I rather agree with Philip Larkin) but most Thais do! 

Marriage is a kind of investment. So, it comes with some risks. You are correct in taking your chances (with your eyes open ) otherwise you will end up all alone, safe but unhappy. I am sure everyone here, including me, wishes you well. There are some genuine Thai females who happen to like to date Farangs for who they are not for their money. We just don't hear about them very often, because bad stuff makes great news!

I strongly believe that if you can cope with the heat, you can easily cope with the cold. The Thais I know in the UK have climatised soon enough. Most don't like the cold but they cope because being in the UK is likely the only viable option, if they and their spouses are still working or have to work. For example, a few friends of mine from uni have emigrated to the UK to be with their husbands who are not rich, leaving behind their well-paid jobs and comfortable lifestyle simply because their husbands cannot get any job in Thailand or do not want to live in Thailand. Are the girls sometimes miserable? Oh, yes. The first 6-24 months are the worst! This makes you realise that a lot of personal sacrifices are vital to every successful relationship! 

I won't say that Farangs are not accepted in Thailand. Most Thais are quite happy to see tourists and expats. I can only say that Thailand is a place where a lot of people struggle to survive so rob-the-rich or rob-the-strangers mentality can be OTT, occasionally. As a Thai, I am 'robbed' once in a while, too, and I hate it. Sadly, this is not the case just in Thailand or some parts of Asia, in my experience! When you feel sorry for yourself too much, sometimes you cannot remember that a little kindness costs nothing and goes a long way.

Good luck

Dani


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## flashpanther (Nov 19, 2013)

Newforestcat said:


> Hi
> 
> First of all, there was a typo (in Thai ) for Por Kor 14, it should read ปก. 14.
> 
> ...


Dani, I didn't realise you was Thai. Your English writing skills are outstanding!
I can not thank you enough for the advice/help you have given me. It has and will be so useful to me (and hopefully us - my partner).

I agree with everything you say (although I have no experience), I can understand the logic in what you advice.

I read the sin-sod shouldn't be forced on the Farang. But you still have to understand Thai culture. She has a child and she is 27. She had a c-section. She will not be educated I am sure. So Thai to Thai sin-sod she'd be at the bottom of the scale. But I am NOT purchasing a wife. Further info to add is the fact she has 5 brothers, 4 older sisters and 2 younger sisters. That is 12 in the family. But she is not the eldest sister. Never-the-less, the sin-sod I understand is a payment to provided for her family. Amount to be agreed with her parents. If a farang is involved then tongues would be wagging. Esp if the Farang given a low sin-sod. The Thai culture must be understood and considered. Last thing I would want is my wife and her family to lose face. I understand the sin-sod may be returned after a ceremony. I understand the family will consider the financial position of the couple. I also understand an option would be to show a good sin-sod, to save face, have it returned by agreement, yet help the family in instalments by prior agreement if the couple needed the money from the sin-sod. In my example this may be true to pay for two VISA apps when your child would join us. (all hypothetical speaking as VERY early days). 

Is what I have understood true?

With regards to what you say about marriage. There is a very good chance she has been married already in a ceremony but my not be legally married. I understood it can be difficult to find out but she would still be recognised as married? Which would be confusing if she then legally married a Farang whilst being married already?!?

The VISA apps seem to have very tough criteria that would make it impossible I feel for a poor working class girl to apply. I fear I have a battle on my hands. Which is a concern if paying all that money for a VISA to have it rejected. A lot of money wasted. Then you try again and more money wasted. I can see it being heartbreaking. 

Another fear is a Thai girl just wanting regular monthly payments. No intention to move to another country and purposely failing the VISA interview as a result.


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## flashpanther (Nov 19, 2013)

Further continued from above:


Please don't judge on this. Please. I know everyone will laugh, look down on us, say it will fail. But I met the girl I talk about in a go-go bar. I did not look for a relationship to happen. I was on my own for a night and wanted some company. I enjoyed her company so much I went back to her the next day. That being my last day. So only 2 days. Yes I am 'ting-tong' if that is correct term? But she is a similar age to me, she is not an 18year old super model look-a-like, I am very attractive and could have my pick of women. But I chosen her but I have grown very fond of her. I have never been happier in a womans company. I struggled hard to leave her the last day. But in the back of my head a voice kept saying what if she is your only choice of happiness. So since I left her on 10 November I have cautiously been texting her with LINE messaging app. Although it has been Thai Script messages. So I've had to double translate or triple using different translators to hopefully understand or put across the right words to her. I have not minded. I do it for her to make it easier. But she will need to learn english if she is serious about me. I have told her. She understands little but enough when we was together. I am going back to see her for 8 days on 7th December. I can see myself settling down with her. These 8 days will have much to talk about. Hence the visa planning etc to know what I can do 'IF' it works out and we really are that close and fond of one another. Talks about her learning English, the required english test for VISA, plenty photos together, TB test, AIDS test together, talks about what she wants. You get the idea. We need quality time together and there is much to talk about. I think she is genuinely serious. I am but certainly not getting carried away. Forward thinking is all I am doing so I understand what I may be getting myself into. IF some of that helps to get the ball rolling while I am in Thailand then maybe I can take advantage of that.

She is not perfect like I say. But I am very fond of her. I got the impression she had been working the bars for just 2 weeks. The Mamasan muttered it at one point but seem to retract the comment when I questioned if she meant she went back home in 2 weeks. She is from Isaan she tells me, still very dark skinned so backs up the 2 weeks thing. But she is 27 so who knows if she went back her for a while. I can tell by her hands she has had a manual labour job - like working the fields. Her palm skin is very tough. She has scars also. The c-section, a scar on corner of upper lip. Dent scar on forehead. Water burn mark on top of hand. She said she went back to Isaan soon after we started talking and I told her I would come back for her. I have good reason to believe that it true. But always remain catious it may not be. She has asked for no money. I would not offer. Certainly not until we meet again. I am not that much 'ting-tong'. I will not be another one of those played Farang, one of many. Trust me. At very least when I return I'll get another holiday in the country I have fallen in love with, Thailand.

I hope it works out. I take all the info given and will use it whilst talking in advance stage of holiday to the girl if it goes well. She we both know what we may be getting into. To make sure she if sure it is what she wants (very important). And if the right thing to do, then carry out some forward thinking tasks like the TB test and passport app.

She text me this below when I asked her what village she live in. Then asked her to google maps link it to me. She hasn't done so. Frustrating me. But I thing she is asking if I what to visit Isaan with her when I arrive?

ที่รักคุณจะไปอีสานกลับฉันไหม


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## Newforestcat (Mar 14, 2012)

Hiya

Sorry about the delay. I have been having RSI on my arm and considering suing my employer. LOL 

About the S word, yes, the amount is determined by the bride's parents and in practice to whom the bride is marrying is a big factor, too. Imagine trying to tell someone that their daughter should only get Y not X amount because her imperfections are... You might get into trouble with the brothers of the bride. LOL Your best bet is to appear not to be too well-off and encourage low expectations. In the end, simply beg that this is all you can give because it is all you have. Your GF's parents maybe very understanding. If the argument is something to do with keeping up with the Joneses, then you can offer to keep up the pretence. Very often the groom pretends to give a large Sin-Sod. You can do so by presenting lots of money or gold and take some of them back. I frankly believe this is stupid but it is not my place to judge other people's belief. Anyhow, you seem to know a lot about Sin-sod already. 

Very often, after Sin-sod, there follows monthly pocket money for the bride's parents. even if they say now that it won't be the case, it might not be 100% true. Your GF will likely want to send some money home once in a while to help her parents. I don't think you have any financial responsibilities toward her siblings but, in the worst case sanario, they could annoy you by asking if they can borrow some money. 

Most Thais I know emigrate to the UK for a while before they bring their child(ren) to live with them. I think this maybe more practical in many ways but might not be the most ideal for the children. Children's visa application fee is on the link I gave you. 

If your GF never signs any Marriage Cert. or she signed one but now she is legally divorced, she is free to marry you. The Buddhist blessing ceremony is not legally binded. 

I don't think getting a visa is that difficult. You do earn more than enough even with her child taken into account. If you are worried that she won't get a visitors visa, you can keep visiting her until you are eventually engaged or married and ready to apply for a settlement visa. But it is so easy to just register a little food stall or grocery and waiting 6-7 months to have all relevant statements and financial tie to Thailand is not that difficult! A job and 6-month statement should help with her visitors visa application. I think your best bet is to get a visitors visa for her. You can ask for just one month and the return flight must reflect that. Once she is there, you can change the return ticket so she can stay longer BUT NOT OVERSTAY. If things go well after living together for a while, she can try to get a settlement visa. You may need to explain why she stays longer than originally asked for but FROM WHAT I HAVE READ staying longer or even overstay (which I would not recommend) will not affect a settlement visa application. If you decide to follow this advice, you should consult knowlegible people such as Joppa first, to be on a safe side. My advice is nothing to do with deceiving UKBA but I think living with someone for a while is very important before you are going to marry them and spend a fortune on visas.

But are you thinking of getting her a visa in Dec? Not sure how successful you will be, but good luck to you.

"Another fear is a Thai girl just wanting regular monthly payments. No intention to move to another country and purposely failing the VISA interview as a result."

If you don't give her the money, then you will know soon enough if your fear is unfounded. 
If a Thai girl minds emigrating so much, she likely tells you from the start that she is staying in Thailand.

" I enjoyed her company so much I went back to her the next day. That being my last day. So only 2 days. Yes I am 'ting-tong' if that is correct term? "

Ting-tong contains cuteness so it is more like silly than stupid. But you can use ting-tong in this context. 

As I said, it is possible to fall in love at first sight. It has never happened to me as I am always reluctant to trust/be very fond of people, but my husband swears that it has happened to him. Time will tell.

I once got really bored/stressed at uni so I decided to go to Samed by bus on my own. I met a very nice Thai girl with an Austrian man who later told her to get lost. She possibly only started being a 'special friend'. She did not enjoy what she was doing. She seemed to really think that was the only thing she could do and all she wanted was to find a man who would marry her. It is very sad that someone feels they have no other choice. If your GF is like this girl, she could well be worth getting to know. 

Gotta run.


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## flashpanther (Nov 19, 2013)

Newforestcat said:


> Hiya
> 
> Sorry about the delay. I have been having RSI on my arm and considering suing my employer. LOL
> 
> ...


Hi Newforestcat,

Thanks again. I have loved reading your replies, as you speak so much sense and I feel I can trust your advice.

If it got to the Sin-sod I am sure they will understand the VISA cost implications, esp. with additional costs of her daughter.

I understand the financial situation and her culture where she will be impelled to provided for her parents in some way. It's the Thai way. I know I have to accept it. She has a very large family so not like I would be taking all the burden. But as for giving siblings money... not unless I had plenty and it was to help them help themselves. I know how lazy some Thais can be and how loans never get paid back lol.

I understand what your saying about VISA advice. I still get the feeling it will not be easy to get accepted like you make out. Maybe the age gap of 35 to 27 will work in our favour as not too big. 

No I am not applying for a VISA in December. I've only see her for 2 evenings. Saturday after next I have 10 days to get to know her. Maybe I'll start the ball rolling with prep work for a VISA that is all. Like ensuring she is learning English. Maybe the TB test for her. Talking everything through. Maybe a passport application so ready. 

I did think it was love at first sight. Really did. I resisted as much I could. I too was reluctant to trust her if I had any slight indication she may be lying or playing a game. But in the end I felt so happy with her I taken her LINE messaging app details. It led from there after I left Thailand.

I return in 9 days time. I have had second thoughts about her. But I will have 10 days in Thailand to get to know her. If she is like your end example of the girl then I will enjoy getting to know her. I think she is and I think she at least wants desperately to keep hold of me. We'll see. I am happy in her company at least. I am happy by making her happy. But we'll see... 

She does send me an image of a ring from time to time on my messaging app. I've told her I am not prepared to visit her parents this time. Maybe on a following visit. But she gets the impression we can be serious and will prob expect or believe we are engaged already. I do hope she never deceives me and my feelings for her are the same as when I last saw her. If so I can see this going all the way. Just lots of 'ifs' and I am sure she is expecting me to be hers already. Is this just her desperation to want me to provide her a future (like your example) or just another Farang on the list to her. I can't tell yet. 

I can not thank you enough for all your advice. I know regards to the relationship it is hard to comment when you don't know me or her but appreciate your thoughts shared none-the-less. I can not thank you enough for the time you have spent helping me. 

Andy :wave:

BTW I believe I worked out from her Thai Script eventually that she originates (family and child live) somewhere near Amnat Chaeron. Think she said 5 villages whatever that means?!?


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## Guest (Nov 28, 2013)

This thread is so fascinating the things I'm learning about another culture. New love & romance is always nice to hear especially when the poster can get such insightful advice.


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