# The Positives



## Wibs (Apr 1, 2015)

There have been quite a few negative posts recently on living in Spain, so let's have some balance. I am sure that Spain has quite a lot of positive aspects, apart from the sun and beaches, so lets start a thread listing them.

To get the ball rolling, some people have complained about food in Spain being more expensive than the UK, and while that may be true for British brands that are imported, what about locally produced foods, are they cheaper? What about Spanish 'champagne', Cava? In Tesco a bottle currently costs £4.99, what is the price in Spain? What about fruit and veg? Local chicken?

How does fuel compare? Car insurance costs? Cinema tickets? What about the charges for electricity, water, telephone, internet, local tax (community charge)? Are they cheaper or more expensive than the UK.

What have you noticed that is cheaper in Spain than in the UK?

Wibs


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## James3214 (Jun 25, 2009)

Cheaper? I think you should use the word 'drastically cheaper' following my visit last week to near Burgos. 3 course evening meal and unlimited 'Rioja' = 9€. 1 beer & 1 glass wine, London pub = 11€. Maybe not as cheap elsewhere in Spain but still good value certaibly.


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## Pazcat (Mar 24, 2010)

It is certainly drastically cheaper than Belgium at least, I can't speak for the UK comparisons though.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

You can buy a bottle of cava or rioja crianza for under €2. A friend of mine did a "taste test" evening comparing €2 bottles with €6+ ones, and most people couldn't tell the difference.

A (very large) gin & tonic costs €3.50 in my local. One lasts all night. A carajillo (small black coffee with brandy or whisky in it) is €1. Tapas between €1.50 and €4 depending on whether it's a locals' bar or a more up-market one. It's quite a challenge to spend more than €10 on a night out.

Fruit and veg is very cheap _when it's in season_, e.g. a 5kg bag of oranges can be had for €2 in winter. Imported stuff costs more of course.

A 3kg free-range chicken costs about €7, a dozen free-range eggs €2.20.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

For me, the positives aren't just cheap booze and fresh veg. They include unpolluted air, miles of wilderness, forests and mountains, the old-fashioned courtesy of people, the sound of flamenco from passing cars, cowboys riding fabulous Andalusian horses in the fields, the calls of owls, bee-eaters and nightingales, children playing safely and happily in the square while their parents take a sociable copa. The sparkling whiteness of the buildings against a deep blue sky. The joyful cavalcade round town last night with flags waving and horns blazing when FC Barcelona won the Liga and Real Madrid won the European cup in basketball. There's nowhere I'd rather be.


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## tarot650 (Sep 30, 2007)

.Would never worry about comparing prices as we have made Spain our home for 20+ years and am certainly not going to lose any sleep if something is a bit cheaper than here.Enjoy the country for what it is,the lifestyle.the people,the culture.Regards.SB.


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## Isobella (Oct 16, 2014)

Alcalaina said:


> You can buy a bottle of cava or rioja crianza for under €2. A friend of mine did a "taste test" evening comparing €2 bottles with €6+ ones, and most people couldn't tell the difference.
> 
> A (very large) gin & tonic costs €3.50 in my local. One lasts all night. A carajillo (small black coffee with brandy or whisky in it) is €1. Tapas between €1.50 and €4 depending on whether it's a locals' bar or a more up-market one. It's quite a challenge to spend more than €10 on a night out.
> 
> ...


Haven't seen those prices on the CDS for over a decade.


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## Horlics (Sep 27, 2011)

Wibs said:


> There have been quite a few negative posts recently on living in Spain, so let's have some balance. I am sure that Spain has quite a lot of positive aspects, apart from the sun and beaches, so lets start a thread listing them.
> 
> To get the ball rolling, some people have complained about food in Spain being more expensive than the UK, and while that may be true for British brands that are imported, what about locally produced foods, are they cheaper? What about Spanish 'champagne', Cava? In Tesco a bottle currently costs £4.99, what is the price in Spain? What about fruit and veg? Local chicken?
> 
> ...


*Cheaper*

Local food (veg, meat, fish)
Cava (less than half price)
Fuel for car
Cinema tickets
Local tax (a fraction)

*Same*

Electricity

*More expensive*

Car insurance
Internet

*Not sure*

Water

All based on what I pay where I live, which is Javea.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

I've been living here more than I've lived in the UK, and although I go back at least twice a year to visit family I don't do a lot of "everyday shopping", so I can't compare as well as others. What I do notice though is the price of public transport which is quite a lot cheaper and here is very good, and eating out which _can_ be good quality, but not always. OH decided to up the budget on wine recently and has bought 3 or 4 kinds from Ahorro Mas (don't know if there are any in the south) for between 3 and 4€ the bottle and unlike Alcalaina, boy do I notice a difference! 

The positives for me are much than economic though, after all we live on Spanish earnings - light and space for example, blue skies, more people ready to see the good rather than the bad in things. I like the way young children are included in life by older siblings, cousins and neighbours and their inclusion in life in general. I love parts of the countryside, but the UK is beautiful too and some parts of Spain have been absolutely destroyed IMO by the eagerness of some to make a fat packet of money to put in their backside pocket.
I find the history interesting too and the art although I really should know more about it all.
I like a lot of the food, but I wouldn't go wild about it as some people do. The same with the wine, I find, in Madrid at least, that a very cheap menu tastes cheap just as very cheap pub food in the UK is usually cheap for a reason!
I also like the way people want to go out whenever they can, to have a stroll, to have a chat with a neighbour or to meet a friend for a coffee instead of being shut up inside all the time.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

The positives are almost endless.

The cost of living here is definitely cheaper, provided you don't take the point of view that some do - drink two or three times as much because it is cheaper.

Almost all foodstuffs are cheaper (provided you go for local brands and avoid the expensive imported stuff) and if it is locally produced, it is much fresher and not suffering from jetlag, having flown halfway round the world

Road tax is definitely cheaper (I pay €69 for a Peugeot Partner 1.5 diesel), fuel is cheaper; council tax is a fraction of what we paid in UK for a place five times the size; I pay less here for gas and electricity for a five bed, 2 bath house than I did for a 1 bed flat in UK. Roads here are, in general much quieter and driving can be a pleasure rather than belting along in a 60mph traffic jam.

In some parts of UK the scenery is fantastic but it is here as well and the roads are far less congested so the scenery can be enjoyed. Here, wildlife abounds and is where you are, not in a zoo. (We usually take our holidays in one of the Natural Parks).

There is millennia's worth of history to be explored and much if not most of it is so accessible, no paying out fortunes to National Heritage or the National Trust to see a reconstructed heritage item and go to their tearooms and shops.

Most importantly - the people. In Uk apart from one or two we knew maybe three or four of our neighbours and that was after living in the same place for 17 years. Here, everybody knows you and is friendly, but then we live in Andalucía. One of SWMBO's cousins came for Easter a few years ago and brought her in-laws (they live in Cataluña). Her mother in law said that in three days she had been spoken to more here that she had in twenty years where they live.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

soulboy said:


> .Would never worry about comparing prices as we have made Spain our home for 20+ years and am certainly not going to lose any sleep if something is a bit cheaper than here.Enjoy the country for what it is,the lifestyle.the people,the culture.Regards.SB.


Absolutely!
The economics of it all is very important, but that's not what gives a country/ region/ neighbourhood its "taste"


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

We were taken out to dinner yesterday by a couple we've been helping out, as a thank you. I had a huge pork solomillo with caramelised onions, chips and fresh vegetables, €12 and a glass of very palatable white rioja was €2. That's one of the most expensive restaurants in this town. I compare that with a lunch I had with friends in Manchester whilst on a visit last year - they chose to go to Pizza Express and my pizza cost 11.50 and a glass of white wine 6.50 (pounds).

Grocery shopping - when we first came here 8.5 years ago I started drawing €70 in cash from the bank every week to pay for the groceries. I am still drawing out exactly the same amount and last week, as with many weeks, I had €20 left at the end of it. We don't buy very much imported British food, just a few bits and pieces.

Council Tax varies very much from town to town, often depending on when the catastral values were last revised. Almost 9 years ago I was paying 900 pounds per year for a small 2 bed house in the UK (it would be 1100 now), now the IBI bill for my much bigger house here is €570 per year (but I qualify for a discount so only actually paid €296 last year).

I had to put my central heating on in August 2006, the year we left the UK. Here I only need heating for 4 months of the year. My electricity bills are around €50 per month (we cook with gas) and for gas cooking and heating I spend €175 per year on bottled gas (could be less this year as the price of bottled gas has gone down to €15.80 each from €17.50, may or may not stay that way).

For anyone who doesn't qualify for state health cover in Spain, or prefers to have both private and state cover as we do, the cost of private health insurance in Spain is amazingly reasonable. We currently pay €115 per month for the two of us, aged 65 and 58, and the premiums have not increased because my husband turned 65, nor the cover terminated.

I use public transport in Spain, as I did in the UK, as I don't drive. Here it is much more comfortable, clean, reliable and vastly cheaper. I live in a large town with excellent and very frequent services.

I like the fact that even in provincial towns like mine there is so much cultural entertainment available. Last month we went to hear the Malaga Provincial Symphony Orchestra, 2 minutes' walk from home, entrance was free.

I love travelling around Spain and visiting as many of the wonderful places to choose from as I can.

The weather is a big positive for me, I hated getting up in the dark and coming home in the dark (it's dark at 4pm in Manchester in winter). 

I love the warmth, friendliness and generosity of the Spanish people.

All in all, despite the gripes in the other thread, I love my life here and don't want to be anywhere else.


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## Rabbitcat (Aug 31, 2014)

Errm with all this talk of prices and comparisons a friend of mine, Bob no Bill, yeah Bill is a bit of a chocoholic and I , sorry he, wants to know can you get creme eggs in Spain. Thanks


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## 90199 (Mar 21, 2010)

No heating bills, no air conditioning bills, IGIC or VAT is 0 to 7%. Wines and spirits are locally produced, and are of excellent quality, with competitive prices. I would always purchase a wine produced here on the island in preference to others produced elsewhere

Fuel is cheaper under 1 euro a litre. 

For us one of the main positives is the climate, no frosts, and no scorching hot humid summers, and that means we can enjoy year round produce grown in our garden or locally.

We do not have a serious crime problem, the people that live here are civilised, and in general do not steal from each other.


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## Leper (May 12, 2010)

I know I've knocked Spain as investment. The up side is the recession won't last forever and the EU will pull Spain out of the state it is in somehow. I don't know how long this will take (We're talking 10 years more +). If you are hell bent on buying property (and nobody will convince you otherwise) now is the time to buy. There's a major positive.

If you can afford to take the hit for a few years without any great payback on property investment then you have a retirement to look forward to and if Spain doesn't suit you perhaps you will make a few bob on your investment.

I'm straining to keep this post Positive though bearing in mind all the pitfalls.


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## Pazcat (Mar 24, 2010)

Re the Cream eggs.

Yes, some at our Carrefour but not many and are likely old stock from Easter.


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

Rabbitcat said:


> Errm with all this talk of prices and comparisons a friend of mine, Bob no Bill, yeah Bill is a bit of a chocoholic and I , sorry he, wants to know can you get creme eggs in Spain. Thanks


They sell them in the British grocery shops, but they're expensive. I usually buy a dozen or so in Morrisons in Gibraltar, and hand them out to the neighbours' children/grandchildren - they go down very well!


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## janet9079 (May 17, 2014)

Lynn R said:


> We were taken out to dinner yesterday by a couple we've been helping out, as a thank you. I had a huge pork solomillo with caramelised onions, chips and fresh vegetables, &#128;12 and a glass of very palatable white rioja was &#128;2. That's one of the most expensive restaurants in this town. I compare that with a lunch I had with friends in Manchester whilst on a visit last year - they chose to go to Pizza Express and my pizza cost 11.50 and a glass of white wine 6.50 (pounds).
> 
> Grocery shopping - when we first came here 8.5 years ago I started drawing &#128;70 in cash from the bank every week to pay for the groceries. I am still drawing out exactly the same amount and last week, as with many weeks, I had &#128;20 left at the end of it. We don't buy very much imported British food, just a few bits and pieces.
> 
> ...


I love your positive thread, it makes me want to retire straight away! We work in NZ currently (UK citizens) but hope to retire to Mallorca in 2-3 years (already have a flat there and husband has Mallorcan family). Admittedly we have only holidayed there for many years but we both speak some Spanish so we try to go where the locals go.

We love the 'menu del dia' for 8.50 euros in a lovely country setting near to Porto Cristo. For that we get 3 courses of good quality in-season food (only 2 to 3 choices though). Bottle of wine of average quality and bottled water. We stear clear of
the costas to eat but go there for the atmosphere and for coffees, beers etc

Muchas gracias
Janet


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

We have just had a load (2 tonnes) of logs (leña) delivered, taken down to our log-store (down two flights of stairs and across the patio) and stacked in the store to replace what we used last winter so we are back up to 4 tonnes in store now.

The cost - 220€ (that is 10€ [per tonne] more than it was five years ago). That means that for the main heating in the house, it cost us just 220€ last winter.


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## Tall Traveler (Apr 11, 2015)

Positives:

1. Climate
2. Very low cost of living
3. Healthy food and lifestyle
4. good healthcare that is affordable
5. Beautiful countryside and beaches
6. Friendly people
7. Excellent high speed train system
8. low Crime

negatives:
1. Weak economy
2. administratively difficult


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

janet9079 said:


> I love your positive thread, it makes me want to retire straight away! We work in NZ currently (UK citizens) but hope to retire to Mallorca in 2-3 years (already have a flat there and husband has Mallorcan family). Admittedly we have only holidayed there for many years but we both speak some Spanish so we try to go where the locals go.
> 
> We love the 'menu del dia' for 8.50 euros in a lovely country setting near to Porto Cristo. For that we get 3 courses of good quality in-season food (only 2 to 3 choices though). Bottle of wine of average quality and bottled water. We stear clear of
> the costas to eat but go there for the atmosphere and for coffees, beers etc
> ...


Good luck with your retirement plans. Mallorca is such a beautiful island, my favourite places are around Soller but our budget wouldn't run to a property around there!

I agree, staying away from the tourist hotspots is the best strategy for finding good quality at sensible prices. Who needs a long menu when you have 2 or 3 good choices available, I never trust restaurants with over long menus anyway. I always think a lot of restaurants in tourist resorts don't put too much care into their cooking or ingredients as they are catering to a transient clientele so they're not bothered if people come back week after week or not. Of course, most resorts do have some good places and when you live here (or have family knowledge to call on as you do) you soon find out which they are.


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## Isobella (Oct 16, 2014)

No one has mentioned higher income taxes. Although keeping things positive I suppose it doesn't apply to everyone.


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## Justina (Jan 25, 2013)

For me, I generally buy from the local veg shops or in the central market. However, what I do like in Carrefour is the origen of their veg, generally Conil.etc., iI hope it is true, cos I'm all for supporting local cooperatives.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

For me, the positives are:

The climate, the space, the ambience, the views, the palm trees, the smells, the chicharras, the people................

The negatives for us: the economy and that our daughter didnt like it

Jo xxx


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## tarot650 (Sep 30, 2007)

jojo said:


> For me, the positives are:
> 
> The climate, the space, the ambience, the views, the palm trees, the smells, the chicharras, the people................
> 
> ...


But it goes to show Jo what a caring loving parent you are to put your daughter first over Spain but sadly a lot of people have been in your position where they have gone back over their children.But hey maybe one day.


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## Justina (Jan 25, 2013)

But is she happy now?
Maybe it is different parenting, but I would never allow a child to tell me what to do.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Justina said:


> But is she happy now?
> Maybe it is different parenting, but I would never allow a child to tell me what to do.


Yes she's happy now. As for allowing a child to tell me/us what to do?? Well we're a family, we all have an input into our family life. We did insist she tried it, we bribed and coerced her and did everything we could to try to get her to settle, but she didnt, so it wasnt really about "allowing" her to tell us what to do, but a family decision. 

She is a very feisty creature and has an uncanny ability to make her displeasure felt loud and clear!! In the end, who am I to make her life miserable??? We could have stuck it out, with her being unhappy, making us miserable and worrying about her - we did for five years. in fact that was only part of the reason we left Spain, there were other reasons, my husband got fed up with the commute, my son wanted to go to college in the UK....... it was only me in the end who wanted to stay. So you could say should my family have stayed in Spain simply because I wanted to??

Jo xxx


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Justina said:


> But is she happy now?
> Maybe it is different parenting, but I would never allow a child to tell me what to do.


I don't know, but having heard some of the story I think it wassomething like seeing one of your childrens' desperate unhappiness in a different country, put the other members happiness at risk.
Not so easy to find your way round, is it?


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## Justina (Jan 25, 2013)

*UK v Spain*



jojo said:


> Yes she's happy now. As for allowing a child to tell me/us what to do?? Well we're a family, we all have an input into our family life. We did insist she tried it, we bribed and coerced her and did everything we could to try to get her to settle, but she didnt, so it wasnt really about "allowing" her to tell us what to do, but a family decision.
> 
> She is a very feisty creature and has an uncanny ability to make her displeasure felt loud and clear!! In the end, who am I to make her life miserable??? We could have stuck it out, with her being unhappy, making us miserable and worrying about her - we did for five years. in fact that was only part of the reason we left Spain, there were other reasons, my husband got fed up with the commute, my son wanted to go to college in the UK....... it was only me in the end who wanted to stay. So you could say should my family have stayed in Spain simply because I wanted to??
> 
> Jo xxx


Yes, I suppose if three out of four wanted to return then there was no point fighting it. It just always seems that you breathe Spanish air.


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

Isobella said:


> No one has mentioned higher income taxes. Although keeping things positive I suppose it doesn't apply to everyone.


We had the negatives (or whatever it was called) just about a week ago, didn't we? I remember listing several things in it. As the person who started this thread wanted to know what the positives about living here are, I would have thought that's why most contributors are trying to supply them.


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## Isobella (Oct 16, 2014)

Lynn at the time I was actually replying to this, I should have quoted it then.



Tall Traveler said:


> Positives:
> I
> 1. Climate
> 2. Very low cost of living
> ...


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## Horlics (Sep 27, 2011)

As the list has been extended beyond the price of staples, and a few luxuries, I'll keep going.

It's shocking news. Job adverts are beginning to appear for IT work that requires English only, no Spanish necessary, in Alicante! They're not the best paid IT jobs (BY A LONG STRETCH), but they're jobs.

I know that the company shifting work from across Europe into Barcelona, which had been insisting on total fluency in English and Spanish, has starting accepting intermediate Spanish. They might find these Alicante jobs start sucking up some of their potential candidates. Or maybe not, Barcelona is paying about 250% more.

Anyway, next time somebody asks about IT work for non-Spanish speakers in Spain, we'll have to be a bit slower on the teclas. It does happen.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Lynn R said:


> We had the negatives (or whatever it was called) just about a week ago, didn't we? I remember listing several things in it. As the person who started this thread wanted to know what the positives about living here are, I would have thought that's why most contributors are trying to supply them.


Which thread was that Lynn?


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Isobella said:


> Haven't seen those prices on the CDS for over a decade.


Sure, prices reflect the spending power of the customers. Where there's money, like on the Costas, prices are higher. In a rural town like mine, with a high percentage of elderly and unemployed people, prices have to stay low.

But surely you have a Mercadona supermarket? The price of bottles of wine doesn't vary does it?

PS I should have said €7 for a _2kg_ free-range chicken, not 3kg.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Isobella said:


> No one has mentioned higher income taxes. Although keeping things positive I suppose it doesn't apply to everyone.


But this is balanced out over time by lower council tax, water rates etc. And if you smoke/drink, much lower duty on cigs and booze.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Justina said:


> For me, I generally buy from the local veg shops or in the central market. However, what I do like in Carrefour is the origen of their veg, generally Conil.etc., iI hope it is true, cos I'm all for supporting local cooperatives.


Carrefour in Cadiz sells cheese from my town! Look out for Quesos Gazul.


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Which thread was that Lynn?


I was thinking of this one (which expanded, as they do, to include a lot of more major negative aspects of life in Spain as well as the irritating little ones). 

http://www.expatforum.com/expats/sp...itating-little-things-about-living-spain.html

So if anyone has any more negatives, could they please, please put them in there so that perhaps just for once we could have one thread that does concentrate on the positives, as the OP requested? After all, the OP did say they'd been reading all the negatives and wondered if there were actually any positives after wading through all that!

Perhaps it wouldn't be a bad thing if both threads (the positives and the negatives) could stay at the top of the list (if there's a way of doing that) so that people interested in moving here could see both sides of the coin without having to trawl through to find old threads?


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## 90199 (Mar 21, 2010)

Alcalaina said:


> But surely you have a *Mercadona supermarket?* The price of bottles of wine doesn't vary does it?



No Mecadonna, No Iceland, No Carrefour, No high speed rail, No Motorway tolls, No Motorways, No Speed cameras, No Traffico, No tourist areas, No enclaves for immigrants, and lots of other positive No's, that is why we reside here.


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## Isobella (Oct 16, 2014)

Alcalaina said:


> Sure, prices reflect the spending power of the customers. Where there's money, like on the Costas, prices are higher. In a rural town like mine, with a high percentage of elderly and unemployed people, prices have to stay low.
> 
> But surely you have a Mercadona supermarket? The price of bottles of wine doesn't vary does it?
> 
> PS I should have said €7 for a _2kg_ free-range chicken, not 3kg.


I was refering to bar/restaurant prices, everyone knows about the cheap alcohol, but hey, lets not get into this already had my hand slapped


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## Anciana (Jul 14, 2014)

If you are mostly interested in cost of living try numbeo, a fairly reliable site that will let you compare between countries and even specific locations, providing they are cities - they don't have enough data about smaller places.

Sweden is a very expensive country to live, and Numbeo's data confirm it: grocery prices in my chosen location in Spain are 43.93% lower than in my current location in Sweden and the only grocery item more expensive in Spain are potatoes, 27.93% more expensive. I can live with that. ;-)

All other things, like rents, restaurant meals are also less expensive than in Sweden (between ca 35% and 60% less expensive. The only exception being utilities (over 150% more expensive than in Sweden) and interest rates on mortgages (about 2%). 

On the same site you can also compare crime rates (lower), healthcare quality (unfortunately also lower still, but practically unchecked immigration from northern Affrica and middle East so severely taxes Swedish health care that it becomes mediocre at best) etc.

On unspoiled nature, areas of wilderness, clean air and water low populated Sweden wins hands off over Spain, but the climate, which nowadays makes southern Sweden much like UK (no warm summers and no snowy, cold winters), that is dreary. Here Spain wins looooooooooots of points.

No wonder most Swedes usually choose to stay in Spain during half or most of the year, but spending summers in their Swedish country cottages avoid the heat and the high costs of air conditioning.

Another plus of living in Spain is relatively low cost of labor, like household help, which older retirees might require. Even if you pay well in Spain, say 12 euro per hour it is still a lot less than the 30+ euro per hour in Sweden. And make you contribute in a small scale to create some employment for host country inhabitants who need them.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Anciana said:


> On the same site you can also compare crime rates (lower), healthcare quality (unfortunately also lower still, but practically unchecked immigration from northern Affrica and middle East so severely taxes *Swedish* health care that it becomes mediocre at best) etc.


Did you mean Spanish?

Healthcare in Spain, we have found, has been very good and better, in many respects, than the UK.


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## Anciana (Jul 14, 2014)

baldilocks said:


> Did you mean Spanish?
> 
> Healthcare in Spain, we have found, has been very good and better, in many respects, than the UK.


No, I meant *Sweden* which accepts* most* asylum seekers per capita: in round numbers as many as Germany with the population only about 10% of Germany.

Sure, Sweden is sparsely populated, so theoretically there is space for all those people, but they do not want wide open spaces and northern wilderness: they cluster in large cities, Malmo, Stockholm, Gothenburg, where there is no housing for them. Most of them have health issues, often very serious and an absolute majority of them do not work even after 10 years in Sweden, so they do not pay any taxes, thus the budgets for housings, schools, health care etc. do not increase. They are very expensive for Sweden and still about half a million more are expected within the next few years.


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## VFR (Dec 23, 2009)

For me its the accommodating people of Spain & even those who own/run businesses are for the most part the same.


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## Isobella (Oct 16, 2014)

Anciana said:


> No, I meant *Sweden* which accepts* most* asylum seekers per capita: in round numbers as many as Germany with the population only about 10% of Germany.
> 
> Sure, Sweden is sparsely populated, so theoretically there is space for all those people, but they do not want wide open spaces and northern wilderness: they cluster in large cities, Malmo, Stockholm, Gothenburg, where there is no housing for them. Most of them have health issues, often very serious and an absolute majority of them do not work even after 10 years in Sweden, so they do not pay any taxes, thus the budgets for housings, schools, health care etc. do not increase. They are very expensive for Sweden and still about half a million more are expected within the next few years.


I suppose you would class that as a positive about Spain as I was reading that many immigrants are deported within 72 hours. Also yesterday Margello stated that the proposal by the EU for Spain to take 9% quota of the people arriving on the boats is unfair.

EC migrant quota assigned to Spain unfair, says foreign minister | In English | EL PAÍS


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## Chopera (Apr 22, 2013)

Horlics said:


> As the list has been extended beyond the price of staples, and a few luxuries, I'll keep going.
> 
> It's shocking news. Job adverts are beginning to appear for IT work that requires English only, no Spanish necessary, in Alicante! They're not the best paid IT jobs (BY A LONG STRETCH), but they're jobs.
> 
> ...


I started working in Madrid as a web developer in 2004 for a company that required no Spanish. It was a small English company and they only spoke English in the office. My current job requires no Spanish either - my boss is Italian and he doesn't speak Spanish anyway. Whenever I look around for IT jobs I usually see a few English only positions, although the reality is that even if the job requires no Spanish, that's what people use to chat to each other in the office.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Chopera said:


> I started working in Madrid as a web developer in 2004 for a company that required no Spanish. It was a small English company and they only spoke English in the office. My current job requires no English either - my boss is Italian and he doesn't speak Spanish anyway. Whenever I look around for IT jobs I usually see a few English only positions, although the reality is that even if the job requires no Spanish, that's what people use to chat to each other in the office.


"My current job requires no English either"
Don't you mean Spanish?


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## Chopera (Apr 22, 2013)

Pesky Wesky said:


> "My current job requires no English either"
> Don't you mean Spanish?


edited, thanks


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## Horlics (Sep 27, 2011)

Chopera said:


> I started working in Madrid as a web developer in 2004 for a company that required no Spanish. It was a small English company and they only spoke English in the office. My current job requires no Spanish either - my boss is Italian and he doesn't speak Spanish anyway. Whenever I look around for IT jobs I usually see a few English only positions, although the reality is that even if the job requires no Spanish, that's what people use to chat to each other in the office.


Well next time you see the uniformed spouting about zero chance and how Spanish is *always* required, chip in along with me 

Although, it's just as well the weather is such a big positive because the cash on offer isn't!


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## Chopera (Apr 22, 2013)

Horlics said:


> Well next time you see the uniformed spouting about zero chance and how Spanish is *always* required, chip in along with me
> 
> Although, it's just as well the weather is such a big positive because the cash on offer isn't!


Sorry I must have missed that thread. 

To be honest it's quite difficult to get exposure to "bleeding edge" technologies in Spain as most companies don't use them, and the Spanish employment system/culture doesn't encourage/reward people for getting out of their comfort zone and moving to more challenging jobs. Also trying to convince a typical Spanish manager to implement different methodologies is difficult - they like to be the boss. For me that's not a problem these days, but that might not be the case for everyone.


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

Last night, we went to a free concert (a classical guitarist and a string quartet) at the open air amphitheatre opened last year atop a hill overlooking the town. The whole hill was converted into public gardens with walkways, a stream, playground, and cafeteria, and it's lovely. We had a view of a spectacular sunset over the mountains in one direction, and over the whole town down to the sea and miles of coastline in the other. Afterwards we walked home through quiet streets (at 11.00 on a Saturday night) passing dozens of buildiings and monuments dating back many hundreds of years, including the Fortaleza and the remaining parts of the original city walls, much of which have also been recently restored. We passed a few young people heading off in the opposite direction for their own night out, all dressed up, and everyone we passed wished us "Buenas Noches". 

Lots of the positive things about living in Spain, all in one evening.


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## fcexpat (Sep 25, 2014)

Alcalaina said:


> For me, the positives aren't just cheap booze and fresh veg. They include unpolluted air, miles of wilderness, forests and mountains, the old-fashioned courtesy of people, the sound of flamenco from passing cars, cowboys riding fabulous Andalusian horses in the fields, the calls of owls, bee-eaters and nightingales, children playing safely and happily in the square while their parents take a sociable copa. The sparkling whiteness of the buildings against a deep blue sky. The joyful cavalcade round town last night with flags waving and horns blazing when FC Barcelona won the Liga and Real Madrid won the European cup in basketball. There's nowhere I'd rather be.


Exactly !! We couldn't wish for a better place to live [ Frigiliana ] Suits us perfectly anyway !!


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## jacochipiona (Jul 19, 2013)

Alcalaina said:


> For me, the positives aren't just cheap booze and fresh veg. They include unpolluted air, miles of wilderness, forests and mountains, the old-fashioned courtesy of people, the sound of flamenco from passing cars, cowboys riding fabulous Andalusian horses in the fields, the calls of owls, bee-eaters and nightingales, children playing safely and happily in the square while their parents take a sociable copa. The sparkling whiteness of the buildings against a deep blue sky. The joyful cavalcade round town last night with flags waving and horns blazing when FC Barcelona won the Liga and Real Madrid won the European cup in basketball. There's nowhere I'd rather be.


Could not have said it better. Ditto


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## Horlics (Sep 27, 2011)

OK STOP. Jeez I didn't expect the Positives thread to run to 6 pages. What are you lot on? And please, whatever it is, don't let any of those retired old folk who haven't done anything other than walk the dog for the last 5 years get their hands on it, the last thing we need is them turning positive and running this to a dozen pages!



But actually, it's good to see so much of this, this thread was needed. Lynn, your post was a cracker!


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Election day today and I love how politically aware and active the younger generation are. How many local election booths in the UK would you have to queue up behind a dozen 20-somethings to cast your vote, as we did this morning? Many of them are on the candidates lists too. In Spain they know how much politics affects their lives, very different from the apathy generally observed in the UK.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Alcalaina said:


> Election day today and I love how politically aware and active the younger generation are. How many local election booths in the UK would you have to queue up behind a dozen 20-somethings to cast your vote, as we did this morning? Many of them are on the candidates lists too. In Spain they know how much politics affects their lives, very different from the apathy generally observed in the UK.


We've just got back from voting and the ubiquitous aperitivo. I must say voting always gives me a lift (I'm betting I won't be feeling that lift tonight though).
As far as young people voting, yes it seems that there will be a good number of young and first time voters casting their votes, but I thik that's very much a product of the crisis and Podemos, I mean it's a very recent thing. I hope it carries on.
Seems that participation is down atm from 2011. I'll open another thread if there isn't one already on the elections.


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## Maureen47 (Mar 27, 2014)

I guess the positives have a dependency on what sort of life you had in your country of origin maybe. Fresh organic food for example is so much more expensive in the UK , if you shop at Waitrose in the UK and then in Spain use local markets and shops you will find it cheaper. If you move from a regular detached house in the UK to a Spanish house with land , a pool and a casita, how can you compare that ? My point is comparing your standard of living is a personal thing. But for us Spain is a beautiful country , the roads are so quiet although the standard of driving at times is scary. We have found the people friendly and love the climate although the 43 degrees last week was a bit much and unexpected in May  . I know we will have better quality of life in Spain in our financial situation than we would have in the UK and despite missing family you weigh up the pros and cons. Its a new adventure to move to another country and that's always a positive thing for us, keeping an open mind and enjoying each day as it comes. Just back from 3 weeks in Spain sorting our house out , back in 6 weeks and then only 5 months till the permanent move. Nowhere is perfect , there is always a compromise but there are many positives for a move to Spain with good planning and a steady financial situation Spain offers a very high standard of living compared to the UK in my opinion.


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## Brits on the move (May 23, 2015)

Lynn R said:


> We were taken out to dinner yesterday by a couple we've been helping out, as a thank you. I had a huge pork solomillo with caramelised onions, chips and fresh vegetables, €12 and a glass of very palatable white rioja was €2. That's one of the most expensive restaurants in this town. I compare that with a lunch I had with friends in Manchester whilst on a visit last year - they chose to go to Pizza Express and my pizza cost 11.50 and a glass of white wine 6.50 (pounds).
> 
> Grocery shopping - when we first came here 8.5 years ago I started drawing €70 in cash from the bank every week to pay for the groceries. I am still drawing out exactly the same amount and last week, as with many weeks, I had €20 left at the end of it. We don't buy very much imported British food, just a few bits and pieces.
> 
> ...


Lynn R, this is exactly the kind of detail we need to get an idea of the cost of living in Spain , and your description of the lifestyle gives a flavour of what a different, more relaxed life we are looking for in Spain when we make the move.
Thanks again.


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## MagicWriter2014 (Jun 11, 2014)

*Great Posts!*

Have to say, as a hopefully future resident in Spain, it has been heartwarming reading your posts on what you like most about living over there. Obviously it is good to hear that financially it is a cheaper place to live, but far above that is the stories of friendly locals, free concerts where whole families can enjoy themselves. Good old fashioned values that we tend to be losing back here. That is what I am looking forward to. We have booked to come over at the end of July/beginning of August and can't wait.


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## Andy&vicky (Jun 15, 2014)

Loved reading the good points about living in spain. Both me and my wife lived in spain around 8 years ago but came back to the UK.
We have both always wanted to move back. BUT, we get scared off by the all bad things people say about Spain. Is it as bad as people say ? We have 2 children one of whom has autism. Please help. England isn't good for my daughter, she lives for the outdoors and is a ticking bomb when in doors.


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