# PR Query- Married before granting the PR



## rakesh_jain (Jan 5, 2020)

One query, as of now hypothetical scenario let's say I get an invite at 90 points and i filled the PR application, and in between this process, i get married (considering 0 points for spouse) so what will happen ?


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## muds (Mar 16, 2019)

You report change of circumstances, and if that reduces tour point, your application gets rejected.

Or you don't report and get caught later on and get in bigger trouble

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using Tapatalk


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## GandalfandBilbo (Sep 17, 2019)

rakesh_jain said:


> One query, as of now hypothetical scenario let's say I get an invite at 90 points and i filled the PR application, and in between this process, i get married (considering 0 points for spouse) so what will happen ?


If and when immigration finds out you married before your grant after claiming 10 points for single and you get the grant for yourself

1. Your wife wont get PR
2. If you try to bring her into the country, they will ask for marriage proof and if that marriage is before the grant, your PR will be cancelled as you lied on your application.
3. If you marry after grant, they will ask 1 year proof of relationship, if you have that proof, you lied about being single thus PR will be cancelled.


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## Maggie-May24 (May 19, 2015)

rakesh_jain said:


> One query, as of now hypothetical scenario let's say I get an invite at 90 points and i filled the PR application, and in between this process, i get married (considering 0 points for spouse) so what will happen ?


According to the Immigration website, you can add family members to your application after it's been submitted and before it's been finalised. So it seems nothing happens, you simply notify them of the change of circumstances and provide supporting documents about your spouse and your relationship.

Whether the Immigration website is correct or not, I cannot say, so you'd need to refer to the application process when you're invited to see if it gives different instructions. If you want to be on the safe side, speak with a registered migration agent.


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## Maggie-May24 (May 19, 2015)

muds said:


> You report change of circumstances, and if that reduces tour point, your application gets rejected.
> 
> Or you don't report and get caught later on and get in bigger trouble
> 
> Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using Tapatalk


Points are frozen at the time of invitation so changing circumstances after invitation wouldn't affect that.


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## GandalfandBilbo (Sep 17, 2019)

Maggie-May24 said:


> According to the Immigration website, you can add family members to your application after it's been submitted and before it's been finalised. So it seems nothing happens, you simply notify them of the change of circumstances and provide supporting documents about your spouse and your relationship.
> 
> Whether the Immigration website is correct or not, I cannot say, so you'd need to refer to the application process when you're invited to see if it gives different instructions. If you want to be on the safe side, speak with a registered migration agent.


If that was the case, everyone would claim 10 points for being single and after paying visa fees get married and apply for change of circumstance and submit spouse visa fees. There is a reason SkillSelect gives out 10 points for single and 10 points for people who are married with skilled spouse and english. Marrying after application of visa while declaring being single is direct lying on your EOI for claiming the single points which is grounds for rejection of your 189 application


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## outrageous_view (Oct 22, 2018)

You would've/should've declared your relationship status as de-facto or engaged in your EOI.


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## JennyWang (Jan 9, 2018)

Maggie-May24 said:


> Points are frozen at the time of invitation so changing circumstances after invitation wouldn't affect that.


That's no longer true after 16th Nov 2019 change for marriage status. 
Now the fact is, if one claimed 10 point single status at the time of invitation, he or she could not get married before grant because it simply violate the total point. This is not the same issue as age or work experience.


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## zero3200 (Sep 25, 2019)

JennyWang said:


> That's no longer true after 16th Nov 2019 change for marriage status.
> Now the fact is, if one claimed 10 point single status at the time of invitation, he or she could not get married before grant because it simply violate the total point. This is not the same issue as age or work experience.


So is that mean if I submitted my application before 16th Nov 2019, I didn't claim any points from being single but married afterward, I can still add my spouse in my application without affecting my application?


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## GandalfandBilbo (Sep 17, 2019)

zero3200 said:


> So is that mean if I submitted my application before 16th Nov 2019, I didn't claim any points from being single but married afterward, I can still add my spouse in my application without affecting my application?


If your visa lodge date is before 16th Nov
Yes you can include your wife

What some people reading these forums have failed to understand is that

After invite, after visa lodge, before your final grant, your points are calculated again and those points should match that month's invitation round cutoff

Example
1) In EOI I have myself as single
2) Get invited
3) Get married after visa lodge and put in a change of circumstance
4) My wife is unskilled
5) Before grant, points are calculated now I got invited at 95 because I claimed single points but now due to my wife in the application that becomes 85 points so I overclaimed points while I was invited so my PR application is rejected

Example 2
1) In EOI I have myself as single
2) Get invited
3) Get married after visa lodge and put in a change of circumstance
4) My wife is skilled (10 points)
5) Before grant, points are calculated now I got invited at 95 because I claimed single points, now I have 10 points from skilled spouse, so my point remains at 95 so I will have my PR granted

I hope these example clear doubts in people's mind

for people wondering what about 5 english points for spouses,
your PR will be rejected because even if people with 90 were invited during that month, 90 points with your DOE won't have been invited so that is over claiming points as well


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## NB (Mar 29, 2017)

GandalfandBilbo said:


> If your visa lodge date is before 16th Nov
> Yes you can include your wife
> 
> What some people reading these forums have failed to understand is that
> ...


I doubt you can barter points
Each point has to be proved in that section
So if you claim points for single, you cannot replace that with a skilled wife
Members should consult a Mara agent before proceeding on this path

Cheers


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## muds (Mar 16, 2019)

NB said:


> I doubt you can barter points
> 
> Each point has to be proved in that section
> 
> ...


This is correct, case workers do have a tie breaker priority that decides which points hold more value if 2 candidates have same points. So having points for no spouse may hold more value than skilled spouse.

This becomes more effective for sc190 where states choose based on what type of candidates they prefer at that time.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using Tapatalk


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## Maggie-May24 (May 19, 2015)

GandalfandBilbo said:


> If that was the case, everyone would claim 10 points for being single and after paying visa fees get married and apply for change of circumstance and submit spouse visa fees. There is a reason SkillSelect gives out 10 points for single and 10 points for people who are married with skilled spouse and english. Marrying after application of visa while declaring being single is direct lying on your EOI for claiming the single points which is grounds for rejection of your 189 application


Can you provide a link to this information? I haven't found this information elsewhere. Thanks.


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## Nilkot (Jan 12, 2018)

So You get invited as single and then miraculously you find a partner or wife who wants to migrate with you. All within the time span between invitation and application.

I would really like to see someone to try that. Would be hilarious.

I have seen 2 partner applications rejections up until now.


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## Welshtone (Mar 16, 2017)

Nilkot said:


> So You get invited as single and then miraculously you find a partner or wife who wants to migrate with you. All within the time span between invitation and application.
> 
> I would really like to see someone to try that. Would be hilarious.
> 
> I have seen 2 partner applications rejections up until now.


Hi

Some time after you lodge the visa application and before grant or refusal, your points are assessed and locked in.

It does not matter how you make up the points, it can be totally different from the way you claimed in your EOI - as long as your total score, when assessed, is equal to, or greater than the total in your invitation, then all good.

so if you claim 10 for being single, and get married, whether you include your wife in the application or not, you are not entitled to 10 points for being single. 

If you are overseas, and claimed 10 points for being single and 5 points for studying for 2 years in Perth way back, and claimed 5 points for ICT experience, and you get married before your points are assessed - you would lose 10 points for not being single, gain 5 points for 2 years Perth study (as Perth now regional and extra 5 points is retrospective) and gain extra 5 points for 5 years ICT experience (in stead of 3 years experience under the old policy - your visa can be approved as you total is the same as what was in your invitation. 

If you apply as single, and marry someone with acceptable Skills assessment that would normally score you 10 partner points, you lose 10 points claimed for being single, but you do not qualify for 10 partner points and your visa will be refused. To claim 10 partner points as well as have the required English and skills assessment, the partner must have held evidence of both at time of the invitation, and must have already have nominated the occupation in the EOI at time of invitation. So the 10 partner points are only available if the partner is included in the application from the start.

So some points can be bartered and some can't

Regards

Tony


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## NB (Mar 29, 2017)

Welshtone said:


> Hi
> 
> Some time after you lodge the visa application and before grant or refusal, your points are assessed and locked in.
> 
> ...


I see windfall gains for DHA in visa application fees without doing any processing or granting PR
Just a single line letter of rejection for over claiming points 

Cheers


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## Welshtone (Mar 16, 2017)

NB said:


> I see windfall gains for DHA in visa application fees without doing any processing or granting PR
> Just a single line letter of rejection for over claiming points
> 
> Cheers


I know - it is crazy technical and illogical. It would be fair to presume (as Gandalf did) that if you claimed 10 points for being single and then married someone during the processing and added them to your visa application, with relevant Skills Assessment - your score would remain constant - but this is not the case

Regards

Tony


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## Nilkot (Jan 12, 2018)

I was talking about the chances of getting visa approved after declaring a few months earlier than u r straight up single. And few months later You want to bring ur partner with you that did not exist a few months ago.


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## NB (Mar 29, 2017)

Nilkot said:


> I was talking about the chances of getting visa approved after declaring a few months earlier than u r straight up single. And few months later You want to bring ur partner with you that did not exist a few months ago.


These routes are for those who have money to burn and can afford to have their application rejected and even PR canceled after grant for wrong information 

Cheers


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## Welshtone (Mar 16, 2017)

Nilkot said:


> I was talking about the chances of getting visa approved after declaring a few months earlier than u r straight up single. And few months later You want to bring ur partner with you that did not exist a few months ago.


Hi Nilkot

No problem getting married immediately after grant of your skilled visa and then your partner can lodge her 491 or 820/801 visa.

As long as you are not married or living in a defacto relationship when your points are assessed, then you are entitled to the 10 points for being single - You can, if you want, inform Immigration during the processing of your application that you intend to get married immediately after visa grant - it is not a problem

Regards

Tony


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## Nilkot (Jan 12, 2018)

It’s going to be a problem for those who lie on their EOI


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## Welshtone (Mar 16, 2017)

Nilkot said:


> It’s going to be a problem for those who lie on their EOI


It is not a lie if you are in Australia and your partner to be is overseas - you are not legally married and you are not in a defacto spouse relationship - award 10 points.

day after getting PR, you can fly out ant marry your truelove and lodge partner visa - there is zero risk with this as long as not married/defacto before 189 was granted

Regards

Tony


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## outrageous_view (Oct 22, 2018)

Welshtone said:


> It is not a lie if you are in Australia and your partner to be is overseas - you are not legally married and you are not in a defacto spouse relationship - award 10 points.
> 
> day after getting PR, you can fly out ant marry your truelove and lodge partner visa - there is zero risk with this as long as not married/defacto before 189 was granted
> 
> ...


Defacto means you have been in an exclusive relationship for at least 1 year, does not mean you have to live together, otherwise no one would get partner visa. It's hard to believe (while still possible) that you get in a new relationship and marry in between invite and grant.


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## Nilkot (Jan 12, 2018)

That’s exactly what I am trying to say. If someone indeed meets a soulmate (if you want to call it that) after invitation or during application process, and if that person wishes to have that partner migrate, that person will have to prove that the relationship is genuine. And if the time passed between invitation / application is not substantial, it is going to be difficult to prove that the person is in genuine relationship. I have had my partner visa refused due to not meeting the 1 year relationship requirement.


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## Welshtone (Mar 16, 2017)

Nilkot said:


> That’s exactly what I am trying to say. If someone indeed meets a soulmate (if you want to call it that) after invitation or during application process, and if that person wishes to have that partner migrate, that person will have to prove that the relationship is genuine. And if the time passed between invitation / application is not substantial, it is going to be difficult to prove that the person is in genuine relationship. I have had my partner visa refused due to not meeting the 1 year relationship requirement.


You are not getting this.

You may have had a long-term girlfriend/boyfriend and you decide to delay your marriage until after you get your 189 visa to make sure you score the 10 points - no problem. It could be an arranged marriage and you wait until you have your 189 before immediately getting married. 

You can be disqualified for having a de-facto partner even if you have lived together less than 1 month - 1 year co-habitation does not define a de facto spouse relationship. For some visas you are required to be in a de facto spouse relationship for at least 12 months 9or have a registered relationship.

Regards

Tony


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## Nilkot (Jan 12, 2018)

I don’t think you are getting it. I am purely talking about people who lie on their application. The scenarios you mention is not lying.


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## Nilkot (Jan 12, 2018)

No where have I disagreed to what you are saying.


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## sabahaque13 (Aug 14, 2019)

I'm somewhat in a similar scenario...and I had also posted a query in the forum regarding this. These doubts are due to the point system changes post 16th Nov. Earlier it wasn't so as you didn't get extra points for being single.

I think it may be best to declare the relationship as engaged in case you know that you will most likely get married...or probably get court married first and apply with the spouse.

What do you guys think?


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## jags007 (Jan 13, 2020)

I am currently 'single' and as a corollary to this topic, if in case

I submit EOI as single, get an invite, and before getting Visa grant , I get married, I change the EOI and get 10 spouse points ( assuming skilled n competent partner so EOI points won't change), will the assessing officer at the time of Grant take into consideration, the date of effect as I have changed the underlying information in EOI? or as the points won't change, I still get Grant?

Any inputs will be appreciated.
Thanks.


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## Welshtone (Mar 16, 2017)

jags007 said:


> I am currently 'single' and as a corollary to this topic, if in case
> 
> I submit EOI as single, get an invite, and before getting Visa grant , I get married, I change the EOI and get 10 spouse points ( assuming skilled n competent partner so EOI points won't change), will the assessing officer at the time of Grant take into consideration, the date of effect as I have changed the underlying information in EOI? or as the points won't change, I still get Grant?
> 
> ...


Hi

You can only get 10 points for your spouse (who has required English and required skills assessment) if that spouse is included in your EOI and makes a combined application with you. Due to the regulations, it is impossible to score these points if a partner is added later

Regards

Tony


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## jags007 (Jan 13, 2020)

Welshtone said:


> Hi
> 
> Some time after you lodge the visa application and before grant or refusal, your points are assessed and locked in.
> 
> ...



Hi Tony, Thanks for your response. Considering that the points can't be bartered as per scenario 2 above, it is harsh and illogical with applicants who are genuine.
Having said that, do you have any references/policies that elaborates the 2nd scenario above?

Thanks.


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## mt3467 (Mar 6, 2019)

Yeh, best not to change your circumstances mid process, applicants usually lose out.

Declaring something different on your EOI to what ends up on your Visa application always raises a red flag. Typically you will lose the points you are no longer entitled to and your Visa will be denied. They will not consider any fresh points for anything you hadn't previously declared on your original EOI.

If they treated applications in any other way then people could potentially misuse the system to attempt to jump the EOI queue and that is why they treat everyone's points in exactly the same way.


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## mustafa01 (Jan 29, 2017)

Kanigargk said:


> I need some help with my situation-
> 
> I have already submitted my EOI for 189 in November 2019 as single applicant.
> 
> ...


Hi,
Marriage Certificate, joint bank account statements, updating spouse details on both of your aadhars should be enough. if CO is still suspicious they might ask for a stat dec., pictures, email/chat history.


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## Kanigargk (Jan 16, 2020)

mustafa01 said:


> Kanigargk said:
> 
> 
> > I need some help with my situation-
> ...


Thanks for responding. 

We are just short of one document - that’s joint rent agreement because now we live in different cities and want to get married to add in EOI so that we receive PR at the same time. We can create joint bank account now and start putting money in that , we can get statements from friends & family & ourselves. We can show the entire period we dated by photos we have dating back to 2015 . 
Will even then DHA have doubts since we have jobs in different cities and dont live together after marriage just because of job . Can we show that we are hunting the job ? 

What did you do in your case??


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## mustafa01 (Jan 29, 2017)

Kanigargk said:


> Thanks for responding.
> 
> We are just short of one document - that’s joint rent agreement because now we live in different cities and want to get married to add in EOI so that we receive PR at the same time. We can create joint bank account now and start putting money in that , we can get statements from friends & family & ourselves. We can show the entire period we dated by photos we have dating back to 2015 .
> Will even then DHA have doubts since we have jobs in different cities and dont live together after marriage just because of job . Can we show that we are hunting the job ?
> ...


I think you are doing overkill. Just upload the docs that I mentioned before and it should be fine. If CO has doubts then they would ask you to provide with something else which they will mention but I think those docs/statements should suffice.

My case was different as we had a child, so it was a concrete evidence of relationship


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