# Permanent residence



## Elyles (Aug 30, 2012)

Here I go with another try on this topic. There is a status of permanent residency available. I requested info from the US consulate and alas, there was none. My wife is an EU resident. ,I have the status of Familiar Ciudadano de la Union. Am I considered a permanent resident of Spain? My NIE is for 5 years. If not a permanent resident, how do I attain such status? If my wife dies before me am I considered a permanent resident?


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

Elyles said:


> Here I go with another try on this topic. There is a status of permanent residency available. I requested info from the US consulate and alas, there was none. My wife is an EU resident. ,I have the status of Familiar Ciudadano de la Union. Am I considered a permanent resident of Spain? My NIE is for 5 years. If not a permanent resident, how do I attain such status? If my wife dies before me am I considered a permanent resident?


This is a good question but it varies between EU members and those from outside the EU (ISTR).

When I got my 'residencia' (or when I sign on the list of foreigners), I was told that this was permanent. However, others will tell you that it needs renewing after 5 years and others will tell you that you only become permanent after 5 years. So who knows ...

I am confused when you say that your NIE is for 5 years - NIE's are forever! The certificate itself may expire after 3 months (EU members) but the number remains the same - always.

I await views from other forum members on this topic but I suspect we will get a lot of "my friend said ...." rather than hard facts or links to the rules.


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## kalohi (May 6, 2012)

First of all, I'm sure Elyles is refering to his TIE (Tarjeta de Identificación de Extranjero - his residency card) and not his NIE when he says that it expires after 5 years. 

A family member of an EU citizen gets permanent residency after living here for 5 years. In other words, Elyles, you would get it when you renew your current residency card. Here's a link to the website that lays out the conditions. Sorry, it's in Spanish. 

As I understand it, if your wife dies before you get permanent residency, you would lose your right to reside here and would have to leave.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

kalohi said:


> First of all, I'm sure Elyles is refering to his TIE (Tarjeta de Identificación de Extranjero - his residency card) and not his NIE when he says that it expires after 5 years.
> 
> *A family member of an EU citizen gets permanent residency after living here for 5 years.* In other words, Elyles, you would get it when you renew your current residency card. Here's a link to the website that lays out the conditions. Sorry, it's in Spanish.
> 
> As I understand it, if your wife dies before you get permanent residency, you would lose your right to reside here and would have to leave.


Only if renewal is made *within* the five years. Let it go over and you have to start the whole process over again. Happened to the suegra, because trying to make the appointment for her renewal fell into the August shut-down and the appointment when eventually made fell after the five years expired.


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## Elyles (Aug 30, 2012)

kalohi said:


> First of all, I'm sure Elyles is refering to his TIE (Tarjeta de Identificación de Extranjero - his residency card) and not his NIE when he says that it expires after 5 years. A family member of an EU citizen gets permanent residency after living here for 5 years. In other words, Elyles, you would get it when you renew your current residency card. Here's a link to the website that lays out the conditions. Sorry, it's in Spanish. As I understand it, if your wife dies before you get permanent residency, you would lose your right to reside here and would have to leave.


 this explains what I needed, thanks. But, is it automatic after five years or do I have the requirement to submit the extensive list of documents?


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

Elyles said:


> this explains what I needed, thanks. But, is it automatic after five years or do I have the requirement to submit the extensive list of documents?


Doesn't Baldi's post answer this?


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## kalohi (May 6, 2012)

Elyles said:


> this explains what I needed, thanks. But, is it automatic after five years or do I have the requirement to submit the extensive list of documents?


No, it's not automatic. You have to submit all the documents and basically re-apply for residency every time you renew. Huge PITA.


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## Brangus (May 1, 2010)

Elyles said:


> If my wife dies before me am I considered a permanent resident?


It looks like you could apply for permanent residency if your wife were to die before you, if you have been living here at least 2 years.

In the section "Residencia permanente" on form EX-19 ("Solicitud de tarjeta de residencia de familiar de ciudadano de la UE") one of the options is "Viudo/a de ciudadano UE cuando éste ha residido en España durante 2 años de forma continuada" (i.e., "Widow/er of EU citizen who has lived in Spain continuously for 2 years").

The EX-19 is here: http://extranjeros.empleo.gob.es/es...9-Tarjeta_familiar_comunitario_imprimible.pdf


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## Brangus (May 1, 2010)

kalohi said:


> No, it's not automatic. You have to submit all the documents and basically re-apply for residency every time you renew. Huge PITA.


Do you renew every 5 years? Or 10?

The link you gave above says: "Validez de la tarjeta de residencia de familiar de ciudadano de la Unión: la tarjeta tiene una validez de *diez años*.[...]"

Yet another page on the same website states: "Validez de la tarjeta de residencia de familiar de ciudadano de la Unión: la tarjeta tendrá una validez de *cinco años*.[...]" Secretaría General de Inmigración y Emigración. Portal de la Inmigración


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## Elyles (Aug 30, 2012)

Brangus said:


> Do you renew every 5 years? Or 10? The link you gave above says: "Validez de la tarjeta de residencia de familiar de ciudadano de la Unión: la tarjeta tiene una validez de diez años.[...]" Yet another page on the same website states: "Validez de la tarjeta de residencia de familiar de ciudadano de la Unión: la tarjeta tendrá una validez de cinco años.[...]" Secretaría General de Inmigración y Emigración. Portal de la Inmigración


Every five years Bramgus, which is in another year and a half. I just want to get my ducks in a row previously


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## Elyles (Aug 30, 2012)

kalohi said:


> No, it's not automatic. You have to submit all the documents and basically re-apply for residency every time you renew. Huge PITA.


Strange that it is called permanent. Of course, many things are different here


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## kalohi (May 6, 2012)

Brangus said:


> Do you renew every 5 years? Or 10?
> 
> The link you gave above says: "Validez de la tarjeta de residencia de familiar de ciudadano de la Unión: la tarjeta tiene una validez de *diez años*.[...]"
> 
> Yet another page on the same website states: "Validez de la tarjeta de residencia de familiar de ciudadano de la Unión: la tarjeta tendrá una validez de *cinco años*.[...]" Secretaría General de Inmigración y Emigración. Portal de la Inmigración


It depends what type of card you have. Some are every five years, some are every ten. I _think_ it's every ten years once you get permanent residency. (Mine is every ten years and I have permanent residency.)


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## kalohi (May 6, 2012)

Elyles said:


> Every five years Bramgus, which is in another year and a half. I just want to get my ducks in a row previously


I wouldn't be moving my ducks around just yet. I have been through this numerous times (I've been here for 30 years) and I can tell you that the one thing they love to do in extranjería is change the rules. So what they require of you this year (this month...this week...) may have nothing to do with what they'll require of you when it's your time to renew. I would wait until 3 or 4 months before you can first submit your paperwork (which is 30 days before your permit expires) to see what's needed. And then keep checking to be sure they don't change it before you have your appointment. 

Just my 2 cents.


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## kalohi (May 6, 2012)

Brangus said:


> It looks like you could apply for permanent residency if your wife were to die before you, if you have been living here at least 2 years.
> 
> In the section "Residencia permanente" on form EX-19 ("Solicitud de tarjeta de residencia de familiar de ciudadano de la UE") one of the options is "Viudo/a de ciudadano UE cuando éste ha residido en España durante 2 años de forma continuada" (i.e., "Widow/er of EU citizen who has lived in Spain continuously for 2 years").
> 
> The EX-19 is here: http://extranjeros.empleo.gob.es/es...9-Tarjeta_familiar_comunitario_imprimible.pdf


I'm not sure if this is only for someone who already has permanent residency and whose EU spouse has died???

Clear as mud...


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