# Tinaco water level



## horseshoe846 (Feb 8, 2017)

We live in a community with a well which we all share. But - water is not available at the street all the time. They don't like to leave the pumps running all the time. So the pumps run overnight on Tuesdays and Thursdays, but the pump is turned on on Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays at some point after the gardeners show up for work. And then it will take 2 hours for the cisterns to fill to the point that there is water pressure. If we lose power at any point it requires manual intervention to restart the water flow.

So we have a cistern in the ground and a tinaco on the roof. Currently (as I write this) there is no way for me to know how much water is in the tinaco without going up to the roof and looking inside. Well almost. If I go out to the garden and turn on the hose and there is good water pressure, there is a good chance the tinaco is full. The priority goes cistern, tinaco, garden. 

My question - has anyone ever seen a device which would work preferably wirelessly which would send the depth (or height) of the water in the tinaco to a receiver ?


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## chicois8 (Aug 8, 2009)

If the float valve in the tinaco is set for the correct height it will shut off when full...think same mechanism as a toilet tank, just the valve is sideways.......


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## Bodega (Apr 20, 2016)

*Level gauge*

In my opinion, a wireless transmitter might not be your best way forward. If you have a location on the ground level that gives you access to the main line coming from the tinaco, a simple solution would be to install a level gauge on the line. Level gauges used in such applications are no more than pressure gauges that will react to the height of the water column, with the graphics reading in feet/inches instead of pounds/oz. 
if you research it a little, you should find a supplier and a really simple guide to installation. Good luck.


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## sparks (Jun 17, 2007)

I have floating sensors in mine connected to a cistern pump. Used to work fine but our water pressure is so regular the pump would freeze after not beeing used for months Disconnected now


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

sparks said:


> I have floating sensors in mine connected to a cistern pump. Used to work fine but our water pressure is so regular the pump would freeze after not being used for months Disconnected now


I burned up a pump the first time it came on after I moved in. It had not been used for years and had lost prime. Now I run it regularly. 

I used to turn off the city water and let the level in the tinaco drop to test the pump or else go up on the roof and pull the float out of the tinaco. But when I rewired the house the past year or so, I changed the wiring to the pump. It can be "off", "on when the level is low", or "on". So now I run the pump for a few minutes every week or two to keep the prime up. But I also normally leave it in the "off" position, to avoid it coming on when I am not around.

Details: The pump is on its own circuit in a distribution box, so I normally leave power to it off. Then there is a two way switch in the circuit. Power goes either directly to the pump or through the float in the tinaco. When I want to test it, I turn on the circuit breaker and put the switch in the always-on position for a minute or two. If the tinaco is actually empty, I turn on the circuit breaker and put the switch in the through-the-float position so the pump runs until the tinaco is full.


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## sparks (Jun 17, 2007)

I have two sockets next to the pump.. One is Auto and the other Manual. Always on manual now


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## horseshoe846 (Feb 8, 2017)

Bodega said:


> In my opinion, a wireless transmitter might not be your best way forward. If you have a location on the ground level that gives you access to the main line coming from the tinaco, a simple solution would be to install a level gauge on the line. Level gauges used in such applications are no more than pressure gauges that will react to the height of the water column, with the graphics reading in feet/inches instead of pounds/oz.
> if you research it a little, you should find a supplier and a really simple guide to installation. Good luck.


Thanks for that. I think a level gauge is pretty much exactly what I was hoping for. But there are aspects I don't quite understand. We have a 1 1/2 story house and the tinaco is at the highest point of the house. I could see a level gauge indicating the water level if it were adjacent to the tank, but what affect does 2 stories of copper tubing have on the indicator ? Also - I can't picture a place in the house (on any level) where there would be exposed copper tubing. Its all embedded in concrete. Well maybe the area near the tankless water heater, but that is upstairs as well.

I came across this :
https://www.rainharvestingsupplies.com/wireless-tank-gauge/

Heck - perhaps I could put one in the cistern and the tinaco and put the receivers on the fireplace mantle in the living room. Kind of like an outside thermometer. Is a tinaco a 'vented tank' ?

It is kind of surprising that these gauges aren't more widely used.


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

horseshoe846 said:


> Thanks for that. I think a level gauge is pretty much exactly what I was hoping for. But there are aspects I don't quite understand. We have a 1 1/2 story house and the tinaco is at the highest point of the house. I could see a level gauge indicating the water level if it were adjacent to the tank, but what affect does 2 stories of copper tubing have on the indicator ? Also - I can't picture a place in the house (on any level) where there would be exposed copper tubing. Its all embedded in concrete. Well maybe the area near the tankless water heater, but that is upstairs as well.
> 
> I came across this :
> https://www.rainharvestingsupplies.com/wireless-tank-gauge/
> ...


The easiest thing to do might be to put a Tee connection on one faucet at a convenient location, then put a simple low pressure water gauge on the Tee. On eBay there are lots of gauges for about $60 pesos reading from 0 to 15 psi. The difference between an empty tinaco and a full one would be about 1.5 psi if I did the arithmetic correctly. So it would not be a very sensitive gauge but it would warn you if the tinaco was not full, which is really all you need.

Yes, tinacos are vented tanks. In fact all of the water lines have vents in them. Those are the pipes you see sticking up above the height of the tinaco on all houses.


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## Bodega (Apr 20, 2016)

horseshoe846 said:


> Thanks for that. I think a level gauge is pretty much exactly what I was hoping for. But there are aspects I don't quite understand. We have a 1 1/2 story house and the tinaco is at the highest point of the house. I could see a level gauge indicating the water level if it were adjacent to the tank, but what affect does 2 stories of copper tubing have on the indicator ? Also - I can't picture a place in the house (on any level) where there would be exposed copper tubing. Its all embedded in concrete. Well maybe the area near the tankless water heater, but that is upstairs as well.
> 
> I came across this :
> https://www.rainharvestingsupplies.com/wireless-tank-gauge/
> ...


As usual, Tunda Green is giving good advice. A tee at a faucet will get you where you need to be. Any place that provides direct access to the tinaco will meet the need. One thing I might add, I think if you look around a bit, you might find a gauge more sensitive than the 0-15. As to the question of the high placement of the tinaco, if you can get water into it without difficulty, the high placement will work to your advantage (better pressure). Also, the only factor that will affect the gauge is the height of the water above the gauge. Horizontal doglegs, etc, will not affect the gauge reading. You can run the tubing down the street, around Laura's house and back without creating an incorrect indication. A purist will mention friction loss, but it is so insignificant in this application that it can be ignored. I'd be interested in your final solution, whatever it might be. Think about a final post.


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## Bodega (Apr 20, 2016)

*A final thought*

I took a look at your link, and, though it is a nice looking unit, I do think you can get where you need to be for a lot less than the price of this kit. Granted, your economics are really none of my concern, but, like the old people always told me, "If I can manage my pennies, my dollars will manage themselves." 

Cheers,
Bodega


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## horseshoe846 (Feb 8, 2017)

Well perhaps I could setup a tee at the washing machine inlets. It is that usage and the dish washer that I think really drain the tinaco.

A slight change in direction - another alternative that might work for us would be a larger tinaco. I couldn't tell you the liter capacity of what we have now. Looks like Rotoplas has one as large as 2500 liters (some 62" tall). We have a well built house. Do you think a person would need an engineer to bless increasing the size of their tinaco ? Increasing the size of the tinaco has to be a lot easier than increasing the size of the cistern.

Yesterday afternoon we met with the president of the mesa directivo to relate our water experiences. On the way out he showed us his cistern. It was massive. In fact he said he could fill his pool from the water in his cistern. Me - if I run our 4 zone sprinkler system for 5 minutes a zone it will drain the cistern.


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## Bodega (Apr 20, 2016)

Do you think a person would need an engineer to bless increasing the size of their tinaco? 




I'd be foolish to say anything other than yes to this question. However, if it were my house, and I knew the history and the original architect.....nope, I'd still get the blessing of an engineer. Cheap insurance, but, vet the engineer also. Sometimes they are no more than a guy who hangs out a shingle.


And, a final thank you. You've gotten me to the magic number of 50 posts. I'm no longer a newbie.


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## chicois8 (Aug 8, 2009)

1/2" 3/4" 1" Plastic Brass Float Ball Valve Ball Cock Water Tank Float Valve | eBay


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## horseshoe846 (Feb 8, 2017)

chicois8 said:


> 1/2" 3/4" 1" Plastic Brass Float Ball Valve Ball Cock Water Tank Float Valve | eBay


I'm afraid you and I are not on the same page. It is not that I am overfilling my tinaco. I am worried that there is no water IN my tinaco - without climbing up the ladder and opening it up. But thanks. (yes our tinaco already has a float valve).


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## horseshoe846 (Feb 8, 2017)

Bodega said:


> Do you think a person would need an engineer to bless increasing the size of their tinaco?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks - (glad I could help). Over the years I have had so many sign-ins on forums such as this I no longer pay attention to the accounting details. I don't even remember my identities... I do know that at one point for some reason I don't understand my 'rep power' was sky high.


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## GARYJ65 (Feb 9, 2013)

TundraGreen said:


> The easiest thing to do might be to put a Tee connection on one faucet at a convenient location, then put a simple low pressure water gauge on the Tee. On eBay there are lots of gauges for about $60 pesos reading from 0 to 15 psi. The difference between an empty tinaco and a full one would be about 1.5 psi if I did the arithmetic correctly. So it would not be a very sensitive gauge but it would warn you if the tinaco was not full, which is really all you need.
> 
> Yes, tinacos are vented tanks. In fact all of the water lines have vents in them. Those are the pipes you see sticking up above the height of the tinaco on all houses.


I like Tundra's idea very much.
Another one would be to install a system used in RV's to measure fresh water level. It would work on 12 volt but who cares?


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## sparks (Jun 17, 2007)

Have a clear plastic tube attached only to the tank. If big enough should be visible


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

horseshoe846 said:


> Well perhaps I could setup a tee at the washing machine inlets. It is that usage and the dish washer that I think really drain the tinaco.
> 
> A slight change in direction - another alternative that might work for us would be a larger tinaco. I couldn't tell you the liter capacity of what we have now. Looks like Rotoplas has one as large as 2500 liters (some 62" tall). We have a well built house. Do you think a person would need an engineer to bless increasing the size of their tinaco ? Increasing the size of the tinaco has to be a lot easier than increasing the size of the cistern.
> 
> Yesterday afternoon we met with the president of the mesa directivo to relate our water experiences. On the way out he showed us his cistern. It was massive. In fact he said he could fill his pool from the water in his cistern. Me - if I run our 4 zone sprinkler system for 5 minutes a zone it will drain the cistern.


Another option for increasing capacity would be to add an additional tinaco or tinacos. It would spread the load some and might be better than putting 2500 kg in one place. The standard tinaco on most houses is 600 liters. I have an old concrete one that is 1100 liters. (1 liter = 1 kg in case it isn't obvious).


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## horseshoe846 (Feb 8, 2017)

TundraGreen said:


> Another option for increasing capacity would be to add an additional tinaco or tinacos. It would spread the load some and might be better than putting 2500 kg in one place. The standard tinaco on most houses is 600 liters. I have an old concrete one that is 1100 liters. (1 liter = 1 kg in case it isn't obvious).


Yes - we checked this morning. Ours is 1100 liters as well.


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## horseshoe846 (Feb 8, 2017)

Back to the level gauge for a moment. I'm having some trouble finding anything which is simple and cheap which would attach to a hose bib or a sink faucet.

I did find this - do you think this might work ? Thanks.

https://www.amazon.com/Rain-Bird-P2A-Multi-Purpose-Pressure/dp/B00004RACK#Ask


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## Bodega (Apr 20, 2016)

horseshoe846 said:


> Back to the level gauge for a moment. I'm having some trouble finding anything which is simple and cheap which would attach to a hose bib or a sink faucet.
> 
> I did find this - do you think this might work ? Thanks.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Rain-Bird-P2A-Multi-Purpose-Pressure/dp/B00004RACK#Ask


No, that isn't what you're looking for. This is for use on a pressurized system to aid in assessing your water distribution. You'll need a much lower pressure gauge. As time permits, I'll scratch around and see what I can find. I need to go to Texas next week. I'll look around there and see what might be available.


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## sparks (Jun 17, 2007)

sparks said:


> Have a clear plastic tube attached only to the tank. If big enough should be visible


Nobody likes this idea? Seems simple and cheap to me


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## horseshoe846 (Feb 8, 2017)

Thanks - there is a DIY forum I visit a lot and I will ask there as well.

I don't know if it matters, but we do have a tank/pump alongside the tinaco which increases the water pressure in the house. The water pressure in our showers is quite strong.


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## sparks (Jun 17, 2007)

a clear plastic tube attached only to the tank. If big enough should be visible

Nobody likes this idea? Seems simple and cheap to me


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## horseshoe846 (Feb 8, 2017)

sparks said:


> Nobody likes this idea? Seems simple and cheap to me


But doesn't that mean that I would still have to climb up the ladder to have a look ? Seems like that would only save me opening the tinaco and looking inside. Or am I missing something ?


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## RVGRINGO (May 16, 2007)

If you simply want to judge the amount of water in your tinaco, you must install a tee connection between the tinaco and the pump; ie: before the water is pressurized. A tube from that tee to a convenient location for viewing at ground level will suffice. It is at that ground level/eye level location that you will want a rather sensitive pressure gauge. Perhaps one of the marine types would suffice: https://www.amazon.com/water-pressu...ge=1&rh=i:aps,k:water pressure gauge for boat

If you marked the gauge needle position when the tinaco was full, and another mark when it was empty, you would be able to judge the amount of water available.


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## horseshoe846 (Feb 8, 2017)

So I was wondering - are we (my wife and I) the only people who have this need ? Doesn't just about every house in Mexico have a tinaco on the roof ?


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## Bodega (Apr 20, 2016)

sparks said:


> a clear plastic tube attached only to the tank. If big enough should be visible
> 
> Nobody likes this idea? Seems simple and cheap to me


I don't think this is necessarily a bad idea. It is the absolute simplest, and there is nothing wrong with simple solutions. Playing the devil's advocate, I would be concerned in a couple of areas. One concern would be that you might have difficulty seeing the level in times of low light. A flashlight or an installed light would solve the issue, but it also adds to the project. Another thought is that these clear, stagnant hoses seem to be ideal breeding grounds for algae. On the grand scale, a little algae is nothing to worry about, but it will quickly cloud the visibility of the tube. As far as practicality, there is nothing so sweet as having a gauge in a location where you can see it a dozen times a day without even making an effort. It provides you with not only water level, but usage patterns, fill times, emptying rate, etc.


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## chicois8 (Aug 8, 2009)

horseshoe846 said:


> I'm afraid you and I are not on the same page. It is not that I am overfilling my tinaco. I am worried that there is no water IN my tinaco - without climbing up the ladder and opening it up. But thanks. (yes our tinaco already has a float valve).



OH, sorry, when I wanted to know if my tinaco was full was turn on the pump till it overflowed or the float valve closed.......then it was full......


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## chicois8 (Aug 8, 2009)

Bodega said:


> I don't think this is necessarily a bad idea. It is the absolute simplest, and there is nothing wrong with simple solutions. Playing the devil's advocate, I would be concerned in a couple of areas. One concern would be that you might have difficulty seeing the level in times of low light. A flashlight or an installed light would solve the issue, but it also adds to the project. Another thought is that these clear, stagnant hoses seem to be ideal breeding grounds for algae. On the grand scale, a little algae is nothing to worry about, but it will quickly cloud the visibility of the tube. As far as practicality, there is nothing so sweet as having a gauge in a location where you can see it a dozen times a day without even making an effort. It provides you with not only water level, but usage patterns, fill times, emptying rate, etc.


If you want to go the sight glass route just put a small piece of cork. cork floats,you will see the level easier....


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## chicois8 (Aug 8, 2009)

RVGRINGO said:


> If you simply want to judge the amount of water in your tinaco, you must install a tee connection between the tinaco and the pump; ie: before the water is pressurized. A tube from that tee to a convenient location for viewing at ground level will suffice. It is at that ground level/eye level location that you will want a rather sensitive pressure gauge. Perhaps one of the marine types would suffice: https://www.amazon.com/water-pressu...ge=1&rh=i:aps,k:water pressure gauge for boat
> 
> If you marked the gauge needle position when the tinaco was full, and another mark when it was empty, you would be able to judge the amount of water available.




I believe you would need a much smaller range than 1 --200 pound pressure ( maybe 1--30 pound ) the gauge would hardly move between a full or empty tinaco.........


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## horseshoe846 (Feb 8, 2017)

chicois8 said:


> OH, sorry, when I wanted to know if my tinaco was full was turn on the pump till it overflowed or the float valve closed.......then it was full......


But what if you wanted to do a load of wash and your tinaco was empty (or about to be). That is our concern.

Unrelated - last month we cleaned the cistern which has a float valve much like a toilet. Cleaned it. Closed it up. Next morning turns out the metal tube/wire broke and the float ball was literally floating (freely) on the waters surface - and water was just pouring out of the top of the cistern. My wife - not knowing better opened the top of the cistern and was poking around with her hands. That cistern drives our sprinkler system and there is an electric pump at the base and there are wire connections (normally above water level) near the top. She could very easily have been electrocuted


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## horseshoe846 (Feb 8, 2017)

Here is the response I received from someone on the DIY plumbing forum I use a lot : (looks like his post does a good job covering the things we touched on here).

"Not aware of any way to sense the tank level from a remote faucet or hose bibb. If the tank was gravity feed only, there would be a slight pressure difference between full and empty tank, but it would be tricky to turn that in to a reliable level indicator, and in any case, having a pressure boost pump rules out that method anyway.

There are inexpensive gauges that would attach to the tank and could possible be read from the ground. Or for a little more money there are wireless versions that have a sensor in the tank but have a remote reading unit.

Here's an example of the first type:

https://www.amazon.com/Rain-Harvesti...nk+level+gauge

And the second type:

https://www.amazon.com/Rain-Harvesti...nk+level+gauge

If the tank is visible from the ground, adding a clear pipe next to the tank, connected to the tank outlet, running vertically the full height of the tank and open to the air at the top (with a loose cover to keep "stuff" out) would provide a visual indication of level, as the water level in the pipe would track the water level in the tank. You put a colored plastic ball or the like in the pipe so it floats on the water and makes it easy to see the water level."


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## horseshoe846 (Feb 8, 2017)

Thank you all - I think I am going to pick up the wireless unit on Amazon and give that a shot.


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## horseshoe846 (Feb 8, 2017)

Amazon really is incredible. We received the device today. Considering I ordered it 3 days ago and it came from Cincinnati Ohio - that is exceptional service.

I've studied the installation instructions and while not terribly simple I don't think I can get in any trouble.

I was wondering - ok so our tinaco is vented - but obviously our cistern is not. Any ideas on monitoring its water level without opening it up ?


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## RVGRINGO (May 16, 2007)

Your cistern (aljibe) is not air tight, so you may consider it vented. In other words, there is no pressure within it to interfere with the readings, which are based upon the water level.


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## cscscs007 (Jan 8, 2011)

I have a 2500 liter tinaco on the roof of my house. I have no desire to go up on the roof just to check my water level, so this is what I did. The tinaco comes with a float that controls water delivery to the tinaco. I purchased a wired float (stainless steel) that I placed close to the bottom of the tinaco. In the normally closed position it lights the green light, and in the normally open position it lights the red light, showing the tinaco is close to empty. The float is easy to install, and the wiring is basic electricity. The normally closed lights the green light (has water) and normally open lights the red light showing the water level is low. I can fill the tinaco from the pump at the well based on watching the lights, never having to go to the roof.


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## sparks (Jun 17, 2007)

horseshoe846 said:


> H
> 
> If the tank is visible from the ground, adding a clear pipe next to the tank, connected to the tank outlet, running vertically the full height of the tank and open to the air at the top (with a loose cover to keep "stuff" out) would provide a visual indication of level, as the water level in the pipe would track the water level in the tank. You put a colored plastic ball or the like in the pipe so it floats on the water and makes it easy to see the water level."


That's what I suggested awhile back but not so clearly. Clear plastic pipe up side of tank


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## horseshoe846 (Feb 8, 2017)

sparks said:


> That's what I suggested awhile back but not so clearly. Clear plastic pipe up side of tank


Yes you did. My problem is that our tinaco is over two stories in the air and is enclosed in a cement 'house' (open at the top).

On Friday I had our plumber here doing other work and we looked at the tinaco. He said - without hesitation - why don't you just put in a 2500 liter tinaco ? Home Depot's website has them at $250 USD. We might have to consider that. 

The installation of the wireless tank level gizmo - while not rocket science - is not simple. I've drilled the hole in the tinaco's cover and setup the sender/receiver as best I could - but I need another person to complete the task and the guy I was counting on stood me up last Saturday.


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

horseshoe846 said:


> Yes you did. My problem is that our tinaco is over two stories in the air and is enclosed in a cement 'house' (open at the top).
> 
> On Friday I had our plumber here doing other work and we looked at the tinaco. He said - without hesitation - why don't you just put in a 2500 liter tinaco ? Home Depot's website has them at $250 USD. We might have to consider that.
> 
> The installation of the wireless tank level gizmo - while not rocket science - is not simple. I've drilled the hole in the tinaco's cover and setup the sender/receiver as best I could - but I need another person to complete the task and the guy I was counting on stood me up last Saturday.


You could solve the "cement house" problem by putting the transparent tube along the outside of the house. But that wouldn't solve the problem of needing binoculars to see the level from the ground two stories below.


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## horseshoe846 (Feb 8, 2017)

Exactly - but with any luck this time next Saturday the wireless monitor will be installed. (getting old sucks - I don't like relying on other people).


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## horseshoe846 (Feb 8, 2017)

Well my wife and I managed to get the wireless gizmo installed on the tinaco today. Turns out the sender/receiver were using different 'codes'. I need to adjust the calibration some. When the tank is 100% full (or holding as much as the plumbing will allow it to hold anyway) my receiver reports 82% full. But I watched that number grow from 60% as water was coming in from the street. My wife just took a bath in our over-sized tub (although she uses milk jugs filled with water to keep the volume down. The gizmo dropped to 73% full in the tinaco. Might have to get another one of these units for the cistern - which now has two very heavy/very well made lids (due to our great local metal works guys).


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## TurtleToo (Aug 23, 2013)

horseshoe846 said:


> Well my wife and I managed to get the wireless gizmo installed on the tinaco today. Turns out the sender/receiver were using different 'codes'. I need to adjust the calibration some. When the tank is 100% full (or holding as much as the plumbing will allow it to hold anyway) my receiver reports 82% full. But I watched that number grow from 60% as water was coming in from the street. My wife just took a bath in our over-sized tub (although she uses milk jugs filled with water to keep the volume down. The gizmo dropped to 73% full in the tinaco. Might have to get another one of these units for the cistern - which now has two very heavy/very well made lids (due to our great local metal works guys).


Yay!  I'm happy to hear that you've found a successful solution. (Or at least successful enough!) Presumably you will be able to tweak the calibration so that it is more precise? But even now, it will tell you when the tank is getting low, which I think was your big concern. Well done!

.


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