# Questions on an odd situation



## jugginsmx (Apr 25, 2012)

So, after contemplating where to move to for years me and my future wife have finally decided on Spain

Obviously we are looking to enjoy the laid back life style and benefit from the cheaper costs however its an odd situation

I plan to come with my wife (soon to be) and one year old and ou 3 dogs.

Ive allready found details on getting our dogs there and vehicles etc. I also understand the residency process however, I plan to work in the uk 4 days per weel self employed.

What dp the spanish governent require from me for proof that i am not going to be a burden?
Kind regards


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## samthemainman (Aug 15, 2012)

Not dissimilar to my situation - although I'm employed by a UK company and have to travel back there a couple of times a month. The Extranjería will want to see regular monthly payments coming into a Spanish bank account (you can get a non residents one first for this with just a passport) or one big lump sum. The amounts for this aren't published anywhere and I think they vary by region, but it's probably around 600+ euros per month. The lump sum has been quoted as being 6K, 8K or more if you're a couple. Just remember there's no rush to do this and you'll have 90 days.

The point is they want to see cash being transferred over to Spain. I arrange this every month on payday and I asked my spanish bank la caixa to just write me a certificate showing the amounts and dates of the regular payments. It was very easy and I like the way you get more personal service at banks here compared to the call centre hell in the UK.

You'll also need proof of healthcare - and you may need to check the best route for you. I pay 40 odd euros a month for a Sanitas plan - they just wanted to see a copy of the policy etc. there are lots of other options and there is also now a new scheme opening for people in some circumstances to pay in to the state seguridad social even if you're not employed here but this again varies on your situation. Depending on your circumstances you may be able to get S1 cover but with you travel situation I'm not sure.

They'll also need to see a rental contact and in some regions (valencia for example where I am) you'll need to register on the Padron to at the town hall and then show the Extranjería the certificate.

Make photocopies of all that and you should be ok


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## jugginsmx (Apr 25, 2012)

Thanks for this thats really helpfull

Any good avice for locations in the counrty but not to far from schools and an airport?


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## 90199 (Mar 21, 2010)

jugginsmx said:


> Thanks for this thats really helpfull
> 
> Any good avice for locations in the counrty but not to far from schools and an airport?


From the Canary Isles to the Pyrenees is a huge and diverse distance, it all depends on what you type of environment you are seeking.


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## thrax (Nov 13, 2008)

I believe the sum of money each month is around €600 per person, so for you it will need to be €1800 or thereabouts. Dogs, apparently, do not require an income although they can cost considerably more than a human to keep!!!


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## djfwells (Sep 28, 2009)

You don't need to prove you will not be a burden - as a Citizen of the EU (I am guessing) your residency here is a legal right. Unless of course, you mean access to benefits etc...


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

djfwells said:


> You don't need to prove you will not be a burden - as a Citizen of the EU (I am guessing) your residency here is a legal right. Unless of course, you mean access to benefits etc...


Very true. But you can't register unless you prove funds etc. And while we know they aren't supposed to insist on seeing that cert., they do, and there are so many things you can't do without it!


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

djfwells said:


> You don't need to prove you will not be a burden - as a Citizen of the EU (I am guessing) your residency here is a legal right. Unless of course, you mean access to benefits etc...


You have a legal right to be here, but Spain has qualified that legal right, as have other countries. As a EU citizen, if you want to live here legally in the eyes of Spanish law, you must prove that you are not a financial burden on the state as state on the Ministerio del Interior's (Home Office) website..._
http://www.interior.gob.es/extranje...a-union-europea-718/estancia-y-residencia-722
*...derecho de residencia en territorio español por un período superior a tres meses si se encuentran en alguno de los siguientes supuestos:
...
*_

 _Disponen, para sí y los miembros de su familia, de recursos suficientes para no convertirse en una carga para la asistencia social en España durante su período de residencia, así como de un seguro de enfermedad público o privado que cubra todos los riesgos en España. 
La valoración de la suficiencia de medios económicos se efectuará de manera individualizada y, en todo caso, teniendo en cuenta la situación personal y familiar del solicitante. Se considerará acreditación suficiente para el cumplimiento de este requisito la tenencia de recursos que sean superiores al importe que cada año fije la Ley de Presupuestos Generales del Estado para generar el derecho a recibir una prestación no contributiva._

Of course, you can fight this in the courts in Brussels, but most people don't have the time, energy or money to spend on this and decide to invest a few hours in paperwork and get down to living in Spain.


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## Claire la richarde (Jul 6, 2009)

Pesky Wesky said:


> You have a legal right to be here, but Spain has qualified that legal right, as have other countries. As a EU citizen, if you want to live here legally in the eyes of Spanish law, you must prove that you are not a financial burden on the state as state on the Ministerio del Interior's (Home Office) website..._
> Estancia y residencia - Ministerio del Interior
> *...derecho de residencia en territorio español por un período superior a tres meses si se encuentran en alguno de los siguientes supuestos:
> ...
> ...


The EU Directive on freedom of movement actually mentions not being a burden and also mentions conditions - "Persons exercising their right of residence should not, however, become an unreasonable burden on the social assistance system of the host Member State during an initial period of residence. Therefore, the right of residence for Union citizens and their family members for periods in excess of three months should be subject to conditions"
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=OJ:L:2004:158:0077:0123:en:PDF


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Claire la richarde said:


> The EU Directive on freedom of movement actually mentions not being a burden and also mentions conditions - "Persons exercising their right of residence should not, however, become an unreasonable burden on the social assistance system of the host Member State during an initial period of residence. Therefore, the right of residence for Union citizens and their family members for periods in excess of three months should be subject to conditions"
> http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=OJ:L:2004:158:0077:0123:en:PDF


First of all I wanted to thank Claire as this link gave me 2 hours worth of class with a lawyer!! 
And secondly I wanted to point out the ramifications of the link that Claire posted. As posted in the quote given, countries can set out their own conditions that need to be fulfilled before the the right to "freedom" of movement is granted. In other words there is no freedom of movement; there is only freedom of movement to those who fulfil certain conditions. Spain is not breaking any EU directives, norms or rules, as has often been suggested; it's setting out the conditions that it sees as necessary to be allowed residency here. The document sets out the minimums that have to be covered.
Here's another quote
_For periods of residence of longer than three months, Member States should have the possibility to require Union citizens to register with the competent authorities in the place of residence, attested by a registration certificate issued to that effect_
So asking foreigners to register, which has also been questioned at times, and to issue a certificate is also above board.

I thought this statement about workers was also interesting and I don't know if Spain has further qualified it_.
As long as the beneficiaries of the right of residence do not become an unreasonable burden on the social assistance system of the host Member State they should not be expelled.__Therefore, an expulsion measure should not be the automatic consequece of recourse to the social assistance system. The host Member State should examine whether it is a case of temporary difficulties and take into account the duration of residence, the personal circumstances and the amount of aid granted in order to consider whether the beneficiary has become an unreasonable burden on its social assistance system and to proceed to his expulsion. In no case should an expulsion measure be adopted against workers, self-employed persons or job-seekers as defined by the Court of Justice save on grounds of public policy or public security_

A useful document to refer to it seems


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## 90199 (Mar 21, 2010)

I have questioned for quite some time, without finding an answer, what are the penalties, if any, for those Expats that reside here, for over 90 days and never register for residency?

However I have saved the PDF file, maybe I will find an answer there.


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## gus-lopez (Jan 4, 2010)

None , except 300€ fine for 'failing to register'.
If you are not imposing a burden you can stay forever. You can only be deported on the grounds of terrorism, threat to public health or offences against the state. Once a 'permanent resident' you are extremely difficult to remove & after 10 nigh on impossible, only for terrorism & then you can only be expelled for a maximum of 3 years.


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## gus-lopez (Jan 4, 2010)

Pesky Wesky said:


> First of all I wanted to thank Claire as this link gave me 2 hours worth of class with a lawyer!!
> And secondly I wanted to point out the ramifications of the link that Claire posted. As posted in the quote given, countries can set out their own conditions that need to be fulfilled before the the right to "freedom" of movement is granted. In other words there is no freedom of movement; there is only freedom of movement to those who fulfil certain conditions. Spain is not breaking any EU directives, norms or rules, as has often been suggested; it's setting out the conditions that it sees as necessary to be allowed residency here. The document sets out the minimums that have to be covered.
> Here's another quote
> _For periods of residence of longer than three months, Member States should have the possibility to require Union citizens to register with the competent authorities in the place of residence, attested by a registration certificate issued to that effect_
> ...




Being bored & having trawled through it again it has confirmed my recent post on another thread about "No thought has been given to what happens once permanent residency is obtained after 5 years".

Chapter IV
Article 16
""General rule for Union citizens and their family members
1. Union citizens who have resided legally for a continuous period of five years in the host Member State shall have the right of permanent residence there. This
right shall not be subject to the conditions provided for in Chapter III""

Which appears to state that once you have obtained registration on the EU foreigners list by showing that you are not a burden/have healthcare ,etc; once the 5 years residency has passed you are no longer subject to those requirements & can insist that healthcare ,etc; is provided by the state.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

gus-lopez said:


> Being bored & having trawled through it again it has confirmed my recent post on another thread about "No thought has been given to what happens once permanent residency is obtained after 5 years".
> 
> Chapter IV
> Article 16
> ...


There seem to be many holes, but I don't know for sure as thankfully I have my "permanent" certificate (permanent for how long though ). For example the economic requirement. Does anyone know if they check up on that after 6 months, a year?? Same with health insurance. Do they check up on that to make sure you are still paying once you've got your cert.?


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## gus-lopez (Jan 4, 2010)

Pesky Wesky said:


> There seem to be many holes, but I don't know for sure as thankfully I have my "permanent" certificate (permanent for how long though ). For example the economic requirement. Does anyone know if they check up on that after 6 months, a year?? Same with health insurance. Do they check up on that to make sure you are still paying once you've got your cert.?


No, there is no requirement to maintain it nor does anyone check. It all appears to be just an excercise in making it awkward to obtain & hope you give up & go away.:lol:
Then after 5 years all the requirements no longer apply. You can't make it up!


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## Catherine L (Oct 22, 2013)

jugginsmx said:


> Thanks for this thats really helpfull
> 
> Any good avice for locations in the counrty but not to far from schools and an airport?


I love the South myself. Lived in Benalmadena, near Malaga. Excellent schools, both Spanish and English, year long sunshine and right by the airport.


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