# Advice for first time biker



## Simon1983 (Jun 6, 2016)

I'm considering buying a 400cc bike, for the sole purpose of driving from Carmen, Rosales to Mexico, Pampanga (on NLEX/SCTEX)

I'm working in Pampanga and stay there during the week and will be using the NLEX so it's pretty straightforward and relatively safe for the Philippines.

I've not ridden a big bike before - just used a scooter in the Philippines for the last 2 years for going to Palenque and stuff. I've driven cars in England for about 10 years before coming here and have driven in Philippines on a few occasions.

Since taking this job I've been taking a bus to Dau and commuting from there to work but I'm sick and tired of buses and jeepneys, traffic and pollution.

Both ends of my journey are within 5 minutes of the NLEX/SCTEX junctions and the whole journey should take under 2 hours, as opposed to 3-4 hours door to door on the bus/jeep/tricycle.

I just wanted to check with more experienced riders about things I need to consider riding a 400cc bike for the first time, and issues relating to Philippines riding.

Also I am 6ft1 - will it be difficult finding a bike as most Filipinos are shorter than me?

I've been here 2 years and know about the risks of driving here but I think NLEX/SCTEX is much safer than say the McArthur Highway (and we all need a little danger in our lives).

Any inputs would be most appreciated.
Many Thanks.


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## Asian Spirit (Mar 1, 2010)

Simon1983 said:


> I'm considering buying a 400cc bike, for the sole purpose of driving from Carmen, Rosales to Mexico, Pampanga (on NLEX/SCTEX)
> 
> I'm working in Pampanga and stay there during the week and will be using the NLEX so it's pretty straightforward and relatively safe for the Philippines.
> 
> ...


Howdy,

I've lived here in the islands for almost longer than I can remember. Started off with a car and 7 months later got rid of it and bought a motor. Er ahh, very small motor. Was just 50cc engine. We now use a Motoposh 155cc with a sidecar and love it. Naturally it's too small for the expressway.

Back in the States though I had a 1,600cc full-dress Honda Goldwing like in the below photos. Great fun for travel and at 50 miles per gallon I was never off of it.

Main thing here as you know is safety. The expressway is safe enough but most accidents happen within 5km of either of your start points be it here or in your home country.

A 400cc bike will get you there but with lots of use it's gonna give out on you at the worst time. It is not meant for constant travel like that as it's just too small. That expressway is just no place to have it quit on you. Simply put, you need a bigger bike with an engine that is meant for long distance highway use.

Main thing is whatever bike you choose, first day get good quality tires on it . These local tires are garbage and will let you down weekley as anything will give you a flat. Settle for and buy nothing other than Continental or Dunlop brand tires. You'll be very glad you did.
There are big bike dealers in Manila but not much up this way that I know of.



Good Luck And Enjoy The Ride

Jet lag


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## Simon1983 (Jun 6, 2016)

Thanks JetLag. What size engine would you recommend as a minimum?
I would have thought my use is fairly light - just travelling there and back once a week and I won't be racing, just taking my time.


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## Asian Spirit (Mar 1, 2010)

Simon1983 said:


> Thanks Jet Lag. What size engine would you recommend as a minimum?
> I would have thought my use is fairly light - just travelling there and back once a week and I won't be racing, just taking my time.


Using the 400cc just once per week or so might not be bad. I'm no professional biker but judging from bikes I've had, I'd say a 600 or 650cc would do the trick and will last a long time. Especially if you get one with a radiator and run a 50/50 percent coolant mix. Another good idea for those rides on the expressway is to find a bike that has a drive shaft and not a chain. It's just one less thing to go wrong that could leave you stranded.

Jet Lag


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## Asian Spirit (Mar 1, 2010)

Also, going between Subic and SF, you pass between cut outs in low mountains along the way. In windy weather those areas can give you a blast of crosswind that will shock and surprise you. For that reason, a big and heavy bike is much better. A big bike will hold the road better in wet weather as well.

Only downside to owning a big highway bike here would be finding a dealer or mechanic that would know how to work on one. The Goldwings now are all computerised and would take far more than a local mechanic to work on one.


Jet


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## Cebu Citizen (Dec 13, 2013)

Yes...this is very true...you might think that a 400cc motorcycle is a BIG bike but it is not. It certainly has more power than a smaller 125cc...but it is not designed to ride constantly on long highway rides for extended periods of time and as Jet Lag pointed out already...the bike "will" fail when you least expect it or when you need it the most.

If you want to use a bike for longer road trips and extended periods of riding as you outlined in your original post, consider buying a bike that is really made for highway travel. A Harley would be a nice choice but you don't have to spend all that money to find a good road bike.

Their is a Harley Davidson shop in Manila and they have a pretty good selection of bikes available there. You can get on a smaller Harley Sportster for a reasonable amount of money and also have a good resale investment in the future. As a second option...there are a lot of "used" bikes available here as well for an even more reasonable price.

I cannot remember the exact thread post but I just recently read a post here on this Forum about someone saying they knew of a lot of good quality used bikes available here in the Philippines. Perhaps another Forum Member remembers the thread title.


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## Asian Spirit (Mar 1, 2010)

Cebu Citizen said:


> Yes...this is very true...you might think that a 400cc motorcycle is a BIG bike but it is not. It certainly has more power than a smaller 125cc...but it is not designed to ride constantly on long highway rides for extended periods of time and as Jet Lag pointed out already...the bike "will" fail when you least expect it or when you need it the most.
> 
> If you want to use a bike for longer road trips and extended periods of riding as you outlined in your original post, consider buying a bike that is really made for highway travel. A Harley would be a nice choice but you don't have to spend all that money to find a good road bike.
> 
> ...


For sure. Going to or from Subic I'd want a big road bike under me unless taking only the old road.
I priced used full dress Goldwings several years ago and most that I saw were through dealers in Manila and ran about P145,000. That's a good chunk of change but worth it for the safety and reliability that they give.

Jet


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## Simon1983 (Jun 6, 2016)

Thanks Cebu - and Jet Lag - for your replies. It seems to me a big bike is not going to be any cheaper than a car... maybe I should get a second hand car for the highway and a secondhand 125/150 for the weekend.... When I first got this job I thought about getting a car but would have been spending my whole salary just getting to work and paying off the car!! I guess I'll have to keep riding the bus for now!


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## Asian Spirit (Mar 1, 2010)

Simon1983 said:


> When I first got this job I thought about getting a car but would have been spending my whole salary just getting to work and paying off the car!! I guess I'll have to keep riding the bus for now!


Either that of give up chasing all the girls over there at BlueRock etc and move over here closer to work:eyebrows:


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## Simon1983 (Jun 6, 2016)

Jet Lag said:


> Either that of give up chasing all the girls over there at BlueRock etc and move over here closer to work:eyebrows:


Not too much work in my province, unless I want to deliver bread, drive a tricycle or grow rice.


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## Simon1983 (Jun 6, 2016)

Or you mean move to Pampanga? Yeah it's tough. Loads of plans but no cash... as they say here, Libreng mangarap ... if we move here i'd need a car anyway to transport the wife and kids around.


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## hogrider (May 25, 2010)

Simon1983 said:


> I'm considering buying a 400cc bike, for the sole purpose of driving from Carmen, Rosales to Mexico, Pampanga (on NLEX/SCTEX)
> 
> I'm working in Pampanga and stay there during the week and will be using the NLEX so it's pretty straightforward and relatively safe for the Philippines.
> 
> ...


Hi Simon

I have been riding bikes all my life, from cobbled together 50cc bikes as a kid up to 1800cc Harley Davidson's with a full spectrum of commuter bikes and sports bikes in between. My current bike is a Harley '48. I also have a 1939 Ariel SQ4 which I spent many years restoring.

I will be the first to admit that I have no experience of the journey that you are planning, but from checking google maps it would appear be approx 100km.
If that is correct and the road is in reasonable condition, I would have no hesitation in making that journey on a decent 400cc bike.

Personally, If I had to choose between making your journey by bus/jeepney or by a 400cc bike, I would take the bike every time and enjoy the ride.

Ride safe
David


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## fmartin_gila (May 15, 2011)

Been a lot of years since I quit riding( in 1971 I had a friend who nearly lost his life because of a Bike accident and that was when I decided to quit). As I am understanding the reason for the 400 minimum is that anything less would be hard pressed to maintain the pace. On that basis, the 400 will be struggling. Now as a general rule a small engine working hard will not last as long nor be as comfortable to ride as a larger engine loafing along which makes for a nice pleasant ride. As Jet mentioned, a heavier bike will be more stable with any sidegusts or such too.

Fred


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## hogrider (May 25, 2010)

fmartin_gila said:


> Been a lot of years since I quit riding( in 1971 I had a friend who nearly lost his life because of a Bike accident and that was when I decided to quit). As I am understanding the reason for the 400 minimum is that anything less would be hard pressed to maintain the pace. On that basis, the 400 will be struggling. Now as a general rule a small engine working hard will not last as long nor be as comfortable to ride as a larger engine loafing along which makes for a nice pleasant ride. As Jet mentioned, a heavier bike will be more stable with any sidegusts or such too.
> 
> Fred


Sorry Fred, I have to disagree again. What you are saying may have been the case some years ago, but a modern 400cc bike has plenty of power and will not struggle with speed. A 400 cc bike will not be struggling to maintain a steady 110kph and have power in reserve for overtaking. Nor will that distance put much of a burden on the longevity of the engine. Keep up with the maintenance and it will be fine. Its true that a heavy bike might offer bit more stability in high cross winds but you have to offset that against the extra burden of manoeuvring that heavy weight around the traffic congestion that will be faced at the beginning and end of the highway ride. If budget was not an issue, I would suggest going a little bigger, the Kawasaki Vulcan 650 is a great bike, but still I would manage with 400cc if budget was a constraint.
Cheers
David


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## hogrider (May 25, 2010)

fmartin_gila said:


> Been a lot of years since I quit riding( in 1971 I had a friend who nearly lost his life because of a Bike accident and that was when I decided to quit). As I am understanding the reason for the 400 minimum is that anything less would be hard pressed to maintain the pace. On that basis, the 400 will be struggling. Now as a general rule a small engine working hard will not last as long nor be as comfortable to ride as a larger engine loafing along which makes for a nice pleasant ride. As Jet mentioned, a heavier bike will be more stable with any sidegusts or such too.
> 
> Fred


Hi Fred

Unfortunately bike riding does have many inherent risks and for most riders it is only a matter of time before they are involved in an accident. I have lost friends riding bikes and I have had my fair share of spills myself. We all try to justify the risks when we are young but in truth it is a dangerous activity.

David


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## Simon1983 (Jun 6, 2016)

Yes budget is definitely an issue and a cheaper bike means more can be spent on maintenance. Is there such a huge gap between 400 and 650 in terms of ridability and safety?


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## Asian Spirit (Mar 1, 2010)

Simon1983 said:


> Yes budget is definitely an issue and a cheaper bike means more can be spent on maintenance. Is there such a huge gap between 400 and 650 in terms of ridability and safety?


Anything with two wheels and a motor is the most dangerous form of land transportation possible. Here in the islands it's almost as bad as having a death wish!
Back in the 80's I had both 400cc and 650. I liked the 650 as it felt better, more solid when riding.


Jet


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## JRB__NW (Apr 8, 2015)

I have ridden 1000cc sport touring bikes for 30 years. Last year I bought a 650 Kawasaki ER6N in Cebu - it is considered a big bike.. it had outstanding power.. plenty of power for 75-80mph cruising in the US, with reserve. A 650 these days has a lot of b*lls. That said.. I sold it after 6 months. I saw continuous risks and knew sooner or later someone was going to take me down. 

Riding in the Philippines is extremely dangerous. The drivers are unpredictable under all circumstances, ride extremely close without a safety buffer.. and pass on the right, leading to many accidents as they have left themselves no path to safety when someone cuts into the lane or a jeepney stops. They lack awareness and don't give you room to maneuver defensively and without that I choose not to ride.


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## fmartin_gila (May 15, 2011)

hogrider said:


> Sorry Fred, I have to disagree again. What you are saying may have been the case some years ago, but a modern 400cc bike has plenty of power and will not struggle with speed. A 400 cc bike will not be struggling to maintain a steady 110kph and have power in reserve for overtaking. Nor will that distance put much of a burden on the longevity of the engine. Keep up with the maintenance and it will be fine. Its true that a heavy bike might offer bit more stability in high cross winds but you have to offset that against the extra burden of manoeuvring that heavy weight around the traffic congestion that will be faced at the beginning and end of the highway ride. If budget was not an issue, I would suggest going a little bigger, the Kawasaki Vulcan 650 is a great bike, but still I would manage with 400cc if budget was a constraint.
> Cheers
> David


I stand corrected, I based my reply on very old (50s & 60s) technology.

Fred


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## fmartin_gila (May 15, 2011)

hogrider said:


> Hi Fred
> 
> Unfortunately bike riding does have many inherent risks and for most riders it is only a matter of time before they are involved in an accident. I have lost friends riding bikes and I have had my fair share of spills myself. We all try to justify the risks when we are young but in truth it is a dangerous activity.
> 
> David


Guess that when my friend almost died was a "Moment of truth" for me and made me realize that it was time to grow up, put on my big boy pants and assume the family responsibilities I had by then created. At that time I was in my early 30s and had 2 Children & a Wife along with all the other domestic things one gathers and it would have been something drastic for her if something should happen to me. It's seems to be a terrible time when one realizes that at some time in life they have to grow up. LOL.

Fred


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## Simon1983 (Jun 6, 2016)

Thanks for all your replies. There's a lot of food for thought and I will take some time considering and researching my options before making my final decision on what to do.

I understand there are dangers but I would be riding the NLEX just two times a week. 
The speed limit for trucks and buses is 80, 100 for cars... mimimum speed is 60.

I wouldnt be going near Subic so dont know if crosswinds will be a problem.

I could get a secondhand car for the same price as a second hand bike but I know if i get a car I'm going to be a taxi service for my wife/kids/relatives at the weekends... I just want to travel to work in comfort.

Has anyone got experience riding the NLEX? I dont think there will be a problem of people undertaking me or buses pulling over in front of me that I'd get on the McArthur Highway.

Also bear in mind during my commute I'm taking buses, jeeps and tricycles - all of which are dangerous forms of travel... plus I have to breathe in all the pollution when travelling from Dau to my office.


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## hogrider (May 25, 2010)

Simon1983 said:


> Thanks for all your replies. There's a lot of food for thought and I will take some time considering and researching my options before making my final decision on what to do.
> 
> I understand there are dangers but I would be riding the NLEX just two times a week.
> The speed limit for trucks and buses is 80, 100 for cars... mimimum speed is 60.
> ...


I think you will find that there is a big difference in price between a second hand bike and a car, unless you are considering a pretty old car. I am always surprised when I see the high price of second hand cars in Fils. You can buy a new Kawasaki Vulcan S 650 for P360,000 including 3yr LTO, TPL insurance and a free helmet. BH I'm starting to sound like a Kawasaki salesman...!! You could probably get hold of a second hand Harley Sportster for the same price.

Ref your earlier point about the difference between a 400cc and 650cc bike. Difficult to answer as so much depends on the type of bike. A 400cc Jap sports bike will run rings around a 650cc touring bike in terms of speed, handling etc., but it won't be as comfortable and will become a bit of a pain after extended riding. I think a cruiser style bike would be the best type for the journey you are proposing. Your best bet is take a couple of test rides and see how it feels.

Simon, only you can make the big decision about choosing to ride a bike there. I have always ridden and will continue to do so as long as I am physically able........ "You don't stop riding when you get old, you get old when you stop riding" lol. You have to weigh up the risks and decide if its right for you. 
I would be devastated to recommend you ride the bike and heaven forbid something bad were to happen. 

All the best & ride safe if you choose to ride.


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## hogrider (May 25, 2010)

JRB__NW said:


> I have ridden 1000cc sport touring bikes for 30 years. Last year I bought a 650 Kawasaki ER6N in Cebu - it is considered a big bike.. it had outstanding power.. plenty of power for 75-80mph cruising in the US, with reserve. A 650 these days has a lot of b*lls. That said.. I sold it after 6 months. I saw continuous risks and knew sooner or later someone was going to take me down.
> 
> Riding in the Philippines is extremely dangerous. The drivers are unpredictable under all circumstances, ride extremely close without a safety buffer.. and pass on the right, leading to many accidents as they have left themselves no path to safety when someone cuts into the lane or a jeepney stops. They lack awareness and don't give you room to maneuver defensively and without that I choose not to ride.


That sounds like riding pretty much anywhere these days. Rider awareness is the key. Always assume that everybody around you is trying to take you out and ride accordingly. Yes it is a dangerous means of transport, thats for sure.


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## pijoe (Jul 21, 2015)

After riding for over 40 years full time year round and being in the high risk transportation business for over 20 years I must say that a 400 cc bike could be a good choice or a bad choice depending on the bike and how it was designed by the engineers to perform. I know from experience that the local market Dragstar 400 is a tourqy fun machine.... I was in a brutal accident in Jan. of this year in San Marcelino and I am still recovering. I had to return to the States because The Phil. medical system nearly cost me my life. I am very lucky I could afford to leave and have a place to stay and be able to pay the bills or I would be dead. True story. I crucnched the numbers of all the guys I have known since the mid 80"s that are hard core riders like myself that would sell their pick- up before their bike and the fatality rate is 40%. True story. Unless you are a hard core biker and dont care when or if you die buy a car. Two months after I left one of my best mates with years of racing experience in England lost his leg at the hip. No one is going to land a Helo. to med-evac you to a critical care facility. Good luck, not trying to be scary but after hundreds of thousands of miles and 30 years of riding in the Philippines my luck ran out and it wasn't pretty. ( My first Bike was a 1986 Sporty bought in Angeles off of Jim Snow, the Armed Forces authorized Harley Dealer.)


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## JRB__NW (Apr 8, 2015)

Sorry to hear of your misfortune pijoe, that's a serious bummer, but I'm glad you had the resources available to cope. Personally speaking, it appeared inevitable that sooner or later it was going to happen to me, and I ride mostly with my girl on the back. Not worth it. We'll just do it Stateside. Best of luck on your recovery.


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## Asian Spirit (Mar 1, 2010)

pijoe said:


> After riding for over 40 years full time year round and being in the high risk transportation business for over 20 years I must say that a 400 cc bike could be a good choice or a bad choice depending on the bike and how it was designed by the engineers to perform. I know from experience that the local market Dragstar 400 is a tourqy fun machine.... I was in a brutal accident in Jan. of this year in San Marcelino and I am still recovering. I had to return to the States because The Phil. medical system nearly cost me my life. I am very lucky I could afford to leave and have a place to stay and be able to pay the bills or I would be dead. True story. I crucnched the numbers of all the guys I have known since the mid 80"s that are hard core riders like myself that would sell their pick- up before their bike and the fatality rate is 40%. True story. Unless you are a hard core biker and dont care when or if you die buy a car. Two months after I left one of my best mates with years of racing experience in England lost his leg at the hip. No one is going to land a Helo. to med-evac you to a critical care facility. Good luck, not trying to be scary but after hundreds of thousands of miles and 30 years of riding in the Philippines my luck ran out and it wasn't pretty. ( My first Bike was a 1986 Sporty bought in Angeles off of Jim Snow, the Armed Forces authorized Harley Dealer.)





JRB__NW said:


> Sorry to hear of your misfortune pijoe, that's a serious bummer, but I'm glad you had the resources available to cope. Personally speaking, it appeared inevitable that sooner or later it was going to happen to me, and I ride mostly with my girl on the back. Not worth it. We'll just do it Stateside. Best of luck on your recovery.


Although kind of a downer; if you will add a sidecar on the bike it increases safety. First by adding visibility to you and second by eliminating the need to balance. ------Not to mention it's useful for grocery and hauling the mother-in-law around. Hahaha. 


Jet Lag


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