# Spain and Renewable Energy



## 95995 (May 16, 2010)

According to a report today, Spain is aiming for 100% renewable energy and enough wind energy is being generated in Spain to power more than 29 million homes every day.

Spain aiming for 100 per cent renewable energy, company director says - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

EverHopeful said:


> According to a report today, Spain is aiming for 100% renewable energy and enough wind energy is being generated in Spain to power more than 29 million homes every day.
> 
> Spain aiming for 100 per cent renewable energy, company director says - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)


If they'd carried on with their solar energy programme Spain could probably be exporting energy with wind and solar combined, but politics got in the way. There are some old threads on it somewhere.


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## 95995 (May 16, 2010)

Pesky Wesky said:


> If they'd carried on with their solar energy programme Spain could probably be exporting energy with wind and solar combined, but politics got in the way. There are some old threads on it somewhere.


I saw a French documentary on that which went into all the issues that were resulting in extreme costs to the Spanish people and the government - can't remember what they were, though. Still, wind energy seems to be doing very well and Spain is definitely on target. Hopefully they will be able to resume the solar energy programme in the not too distant future.

The issue in South Australia turned out to be software related that caused everything to shut down during recent extreme weather and apparently is being deal with - which is a good thing because the Federal Government was all to ready to say that wind energy was unreliable (politics again, it's a government that is extremely reluctant to invest in renewables).


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## Pazcat (Mar 24, 2010)

It is a shame that they don't exactly make renewable energy more of an attractive option for the end user too. In my opinion the draconian laws and taxes surrounding home solar panels for example undo any good on a national level.


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## 95995 (May 16, 2010)

Pazcat said:


> It is a shame that they don't exactly make renewable energy more of an attractive option for the end user too. In my opinion the draconian laws and taxes surrounding home solar panels for example undo any good on a national level.


Yep, and it seems it just got much worse.


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

Pazcat said:


> It is a shame that they don't exactly make renewable energy more of an attractive option for the end user too. In my opinion the draconian laws and taxes surrounding home solar panels for example undo any good on a national level.


What taxes? 

I thought they shelved this idea?


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## bob_bob (Jan 5, 2011)

EverHopeful said:


> According to a report today, Spain is aiming for 100% renewable energy and enough wind energy is being generated in Spain to power more than 29 million homes every day.
> 
> Spain aiming for 100 per cent renewable energy, company director says - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)


Hopefully the Brit government will remove the Turbine eyesores and sell them to Spain...if I was in power I'd give the bloody awful bloody things away for free to Spain.


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## Pazcat (Mar 24, 2010)

snikpoh said:


> What taxes?
> 
> I thought they shelved this idea?


That is the idea but technically there needs to be a government in place first before they can. When it happens and with whatever interpretation of net metering they come up with then I guess things will be clearer.
But until then Spain is the only country to apply a tax to solar energy and one of the few that don't compensate for feeding the grid.

Still the other thing is now other nations are looking into following the Spanish model, not good news for solar if you ask me.


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## 95995 (May 16, 2010)

Pazcat said:


> That is the idea but technically there needs to be a government in place first before they can. When it happens and with whatever interpretation of net metering they come up with then I guess things will be clearer.
> But until then Spain is the only country to apply a tax to solar energy and one of the few that don't compensate for feeding the grid.
> 
> Still the other thing is now other nations are looking into following the Spanish model, not good news for solar if you ask me.


Well, as of yesterday, Spain now has a government (Rajoy). 

Hmm, feeding in is no longer compensated in all Australian states Solar Feed-in Tariffs VIC WA NSW SA QLD NT TAS - Solar Choice and people are now looking seriously at the best way to store their own unused power in light of the most recent end of lower and reduction in feed-in tariffs. (I live in an apartment here in France and have no idea whether feeding into the grid here is compensated).


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## Moyra (Aug 10, 2014)

So what is the cost of the tax on solar energy? Is it shown separately on your account?

I agree with Pazcat about with the shelving of this law. What I found is this :

UNEF: Spain set to remove 'sun tax'
By Kristina Thoring, Political Communications Adviser

SolarPower Europe member, UNEF (Spain's Photovoltaic Union) reports that Spanish political parties representing the majority in parliament have signed an agreement to remove the Royal Decree against self-consumption of solar power within 100 days of a government being formed. Spain has not yet formed a government on the back of the general elections last year. 

The agreement, signed by 227 members of parliament, states that the 'sun tax' on energy produced and consumed without feeding the grid will be removed. Furthermore, the net metering system will be approved and collective self-consumption permitted. 

This will be a welcome move if enacted. While Spain more than doubled installations to 49 MW in 2015 from 22 MW in 2014, this is still considered way below the country potential. 

The new agreement is the result of discussions between political parties, the Spanish Photovoltaic Union (UNEF) and other 25 organisations including consumer organisations, unions, associations of renewable energy organisations, environmental associations and social movements. All parties agree that self-consumption is a civil right that plays a key role in the fight against climate change and that can lead to significant jobs creation.

Moyra


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## Pazcat (Mar 24, 2010)

Ahh, I was going to say something along those lines.
They have 100 days supposedly. Optimism reigns supreme.



EverHopeful said:


> Well, as of yesterday, Spain now has a government (Rajoy).
> 
> Hmm, feeding in is no longer compensated in all Australian states Solar Feed-in Tariffs VIC WA NSW SA QLD NT TAS - Solar Choice and people are now looking seriously at the best way to store their own unused power in light of the most recent end of lower and reduction in feed-in tariffs. (I live in an apartment here in France and have no idea whether feeding into the grid here is compensated).


Yes that is true too, shame really but if I wasn't getting compensated for feeding the grid I wouldn't want to feed it in the first place so I can see how that works.
There was some hype not too long ago about Tesla storage cells or something, seems to me that is on the right track.
It would be better if we were all self sufficient.


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## jimenato (Nov 21, 2009)

In the UK you can actually get a reasonable return on investment if you install solar panels - maybe we are ahead of some of the rest of the world in this area.

I recently found out about it and we were quoted around £8000 for a roof-full of panels and the return would have been around 5% p.a. This includes savings on your bills, a guaranteed feed-in tariff and another payment for excess power fed back to the grid. 

Some years back it would have been considerably better - a friend of mine is on a huge payback tariff guaranteed for years. In some areas you see just about every roof covered in panels.

I have been put off so far by two considerations; I'm not sure I want to tie up so much capital - it's a good return but you can't ever liquidate it and, the solar panel market resembles the very worst of the double glazing market of a few years ago. I've had a quote for the same array for a little over £5000 and all the companies were busy rubbishing all the others' products and reputation. The company who gave me the original quote has now matched the lower one.

So I told them all to ****** off and leave me alone.

The problem with electricity is storing it - it's difficult, inefficient and expensive. It means that most renewables will always have to be supplemented by a system which can deliver a base supply for when the sun's not shining or the wind's not blowing. 

In the UK we have plumped for Hinkley Point - a controversial and expensive (to build) solution but which at least, once it's built, should just sit there generating getting on for 10% of the entire UK's electricity until 2100.

The only renewable option which is 100% reliable is tidal I don't know why they don't do more of that - there must be reason.


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## 95995 (May 16, 2010)

jimenato said:


> In the UK you can actually get a reasonable return on investment if you install solar panels - maybe we are ahead of some of the rest of the world in this area.
> 
> I recently found out about it and we were quoted around £8000 for a roof-full of panels and the return would have been around 5% p.a. This includes savings on your bills, a guaranteed feed-in tariff and another payment for excess power fed back to the grid.
> 
> ...


In Australia some years ago you got a really good return by feeding into the grid, you could buy solar panels cheaply and pay overtime with no interest, but governments change and the feedback compensation has mostly not been renewed (after being in place for a number of years but reaching their review/sunset date). I was fortunate when there as I got in relatively early, my brother (in another State) actually made a profit despite the fact that he was far from miserly with his power usage.

France has been delaying closing down its nuclear power stations. Now they have had to shut down 5 whilst they do a review of their safety given a recent negative report. Waste storage remains a major issue (unless, of course, you don't care about future generations) and there is also the issue about what you do when you choose to decommission a plant - nothing's easy.


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## Chopera (Apr 22, 2013)

jimenato said:


> ...
> 
> The problem with electricity is storing it - it's difficult, inefficient and expensive. It means that most renewables will always have to be supplemented by a system which can deliver a base supply for when the sun's not shining or the wind's not blowing.
> 
> ...


I keep reading that we're on the brink of a huge leap in battery technology (which hasn't really changed much for ages). In fact there seems to be various technologies on offer, one of which are graphite batteries, being developed by a Spanish compoany callled Graphenano.


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

Chopera said:


> I keep reading that we're on the brink of a huge leap in battery technology (which hasn't really changed much for ages). In fact there seems to be various technologies on offer, one of which are graphite batteries, being developed by a Spanish compoany callled Graphenano.


I thought that Tesla had some of the most efficient/modern battery technology?


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## Pazcat (Mar 24, 2010)

https://www.tesla.com/powerwall

No idea if it is any good.


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## Chopera (Apr 22, 2013)

snikpoh said:


> I thought that Tesla had some of the most efficient/modern battery technology?


Maybe they do - there seems to be a ton of different battery technologies being researched at the moment. I have no idea which one is the best.

Future batteries, coming soon: charge in seconds, last months and power over the air - Pocket-lint


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

jimenato said:


> The only renewable option which is 100% reliable is tidal I don't know why they don't do more of that - there must be reason.


There was something about that on the radio this morning - Swansea Bay tidal lagoon. Although over time it would be far more cost-effective than any other form of energy, the banks won't lend the money to build it until they get a guaranteed return from the government. Meanwhile the government prefers the nuclear option (Hinkley Point) and the fossil fuel option (fracking).


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## jimenato (Nov 21, 2009)

Alcalaina said:


> There was something about that on the radio this morning - Swansea Bay tidal lagoon. Although over time it would be far more cost-effective than any other form of energy, the banks won't lend the money to build it until they get a guaranteed return from the government. Meanwhile the government prefers the nuclear option (Hinkley Point) and the fossil fuel option (fracking).


Yes, various schemes have been mooted around the Severn Estuary and elsewhere including Bridgwater Bay which would have the further benefit of alleviating flooding on the Somerset Moors and Levels.

The Severn Barrage itself was dropped years ago on cost grounds certainly, but also on environmental grounds - the hundreds of square miles of intertidal land is an important habitat.

Nothing's easy when it comes to energy production.


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## mono (Jan 22, 2016)

There was an article in a paper with somebody asking for help. Apparently they bought a house, completed and the sellers moved on. But the solar energy company has moved the bill for the panels etc to the new owners who were not aware that this could happen. Could this be true?


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## Pazcat (Mar 24, 2010)

Yep, in Spain all debts stay with the property and not the people.
Another reason to make sure you have thoroughly checked all debts on the property before parting with any money.


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