# Valencia or Porto - which city to live in long-term?



## flamboya (Jun 19, 2021)

25M software developer working remotely. Interested in moving to southern Europe, particularly near the water and/or nature. I currently am struggling to decide between Valencia (Spain) and Porto (Portugal). I've also considered Santander (Spain) in the mix, but the former 2 are what seem to be recommended most because they're more popular. 

Anyways, could you please tell me which city (Valencia or Porto) wins in each category? (If anyone wants to include Santander in their reply, please be my guest): 

Real estate: the ability to own a house with a garden - which city is cheaper for this? which one has more houses on offer in general?
Transit: usefulness/efficiency of public transport? what about bike friendliness?
Weather: don't really mind snow or rain. what I do mind is being drenched in sweat and needing to shower after a walk to the grocery store in the summer
Leisure/entertainment: in terms of activites to do (including nature) 
Shopping: retail options, product availability, including popular brands
Healthcare: quality of hospitals (well equipped, clean facilities) and doctors? medicine availability in pharmacies?
Education (for future children): quality of schools and universities? availability of an English-speaking or bilingual curriculum?
Social life: are the people friendly? is it easy to make friends? what about the dating experience? will i be treated like a citizen if I integrate well or will i still be considered a "foreigner/immigrant/expat"? (i am a white arab if that makes any difference). 

I guess that's all for now. Thanks for reading. Looking forward to your replies and help


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

flamboya said:


> 25M software developer working remotely. Interested in moving to southern Europe, particularly near the water and/or nature. I currently am struggling to decide between Valencia (Spain) and Porto (Portugal). I've also considered Santander (Spain) in the mix, but the former 2 are what seem to be recommended most because they're more popular.
> 
> Anyways, could you please tell me which city (Valencia or Porto) wins in each category? (If anyone wants to include Santander in their reply, please be my guest):
> 
> ...


For Valencia...

1 outside the city itself, yes houses with gardens are common.
2. Public transport is good, but I don't know about cycling in the city centre.
3. Humidity can be high in the summer.
4. Lots to do in & around the city. Lots of 'nature' just outside the city. 
5. Not sure to which brands you refer, but Valencia certainly has good shopping.
6. You'll need private healthcare insurance, but both private & public healthcare is generally of a high standard. You might not get the same medication as in your current country of residence, but something as eefective if not better. With healthcare insurance you will have to pay the full cost of medications.
7. While many state schools in the valencia region claim a trilingual education, it's really bilingual castellano & valenciano with some subjects delivered in (usually poor) English. Some private schools do offer a true bilinugal castellano/English education. 
8. Spain is a social country! If you're open, friendly & learn to speak Spanish it makes all the difference. 


*I'm adding #9*. Before you go any further, check that you can actually get a visa to live in Spain that allows working, if you're not an EU citizen. You might just find that _that_ is the deciding factor.


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## flamboya (Jun 19, 2021)

xabiaxica said:


> For Valencia...
> 
> 1 outside the city itself, yes houses with gardens are common.
> 2. Public transport is good, but I don't know about cycling in the city centre.
> ...


Thanks for the reply. Have you been to Santander by any chance? Also, what do you personally think the best city in Spain is, if you consider all of the above categories I listed?

And yes, the reason I'm considering Spain is because I know someone of my nationality who got the non-lucrative visa through savings and an online job income. I've heard it's even easier to get this visa in Portugal. The thing is, I would like to get citizenship in the future, but for Spain it takes 10 years, whereas in Portugal it takes 5. Also, Portugal is a bit cheaper than Spain in general. On the other hand, Spanish is easier to learn than Portuguese. Hence why I don't know what to decide on and am really looking for people who have lived in these two cities (Porto and Valencia) to share their experience and help me decide.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

flamboya said:


> Thanks for the reply. Have you been to Santander by any chance? Also, what do you personally think the best city in Spain is, if you consider all of the above categories I listed?
> 
> And yes, the reason I'm considering Spain is because I know someone of my nationality who got the non-lucrative visa through savings and an online job income. I've heard it's even easier to get this visa in Portugal. The thing is, I would like to get citizenship in the future, but for Spain it takes 10 years, whereas in Portugal it takes 5. Also, Portugal is a bit cheaper than Spain in general. On the other hand, Spanish is easier to learn than Portuguese. Hence why I don't know what to decide on and am really looking for people who have lived in these two cities (Porto and Valencia) to share their experience and help me decide.


I don't know Santander, though likely someone on the forum does. 

Yes, I have personally met people who achieved NLVs with remote working, but most consulates don't allow it, & when it comes to renewal at the one year point, it can be an issue.


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## tardigrade (May 23, 2021)

Expect Valencia and surrounding villages to be hot (25-40°) from June to 1st-2nd week Sept and has high humidity thru out the year. Outside of Valencia a car might be needed and internet speeds might not be as fast as the city center. 

Portugal can be really wet during the winter with storms coming straight from the atlantic. Sorry I do not know the weather in the summer.

As for activities; I would have to go for Valencia. 3 hours to Madrid or Barcelona. Benidorm and the islands nearby. Museums, the river park around the center. Bicycle lanes thru out the city. the Metro. The only downside would be the big salt water lake as the Atlantic beats it anyday.

You never know what could happen in 5 - 10 years waiting for your magical piece of paper - you could find love and marry a local or other EU member


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

I spent a week in Northern Portugal (the Silver Coast, so not so far north as Porto) in late June of 2019 and it rained almost every day, with an extremely damp atmosphere, so much so that clothes hanging in a wardrobe felt damp and towels were very difficult to dry. It wasn't a one-off as I'd spent 2 weeks in the same area years ago, also in June, and the weather was the same then. The winters, as the previous poster said, are very wet.


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

Deleted as duplicated, sorry.]


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## NickZ (Jun 26, 2009)

IMHO you don't pick a city to leave outside in the countryside commuting daily.

You can but most will find living in a city apartment more the definition of living in the city.

If you pick a smaller town outside of it you're not really living in the city but in that town.

Also if you're worried about weather remember that some of those towns can have different weather. Elevation for example can mean cooler summers and much colder winters.

But I think you're going to need a lot of luck to get a visa


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## flamboya (Jun 19, 2021)

tardigrade said:


> Expect Valencia and surrounding villages to be hot (25-40°) from June to 1st-2nd week Sept and has high humidity thru out the year. Outside of Valencia a car might be needed and internet speeds might not be as fast as the city center.
> 
> Portugal can be really wet during the winter with storms coming straight from the atlantic. Sorry I do not know the weather in the summer.
> 
> ...


Have you lived in Porto? It sounds like you have but I can't really tell from your post.

I don't plan on living outside the city to be honest. 

I've lived in areas that rained nearly everyday and also lived in areas where you'd drench in sweat after a 10min walk. And I have to say, I'd rather experience the rain than the blistering heat. 

I don't really plan on getting married until I'm around 30, so that's 5 years gone anyway.


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## flamboya (Jun 19, 2021)

NickZ said:


> IMHO you don't pick a city to leave outside in the countryside commuting daily.
> 
> You can but most will find living in a city apartment more the definition of living in the city.
> 
> ...


I don't plan on living outside a city. That's why I am wondering if there are houses/townhouses inside the city.

Why would I need a lot of luck? I know someone who got it recently and they told me that it was a fairly easy process.


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## tardigrade (May 23, 2021)

flamboya said:


> I know someone who got it recently and they told me that it was a fairly easy process.


From where did they receive it and what nationality?


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

You asked about "the ability to own a house with a garden", so I assume you are interested in buying rather than renting? The best way to see if there are properties which would suit your requirements and budget would be to look at a property portal like this one (link filtered to houses in the city of Valencia itself), there must be an equivalent site for Porto but you'd have to Google that.



https://www.idealista.com/en/venta-viviendas/valencia-valencia/con-chalets/



For being cycle friendly, Valencia would definitely be the better option as it is pretty flat, there is the lovely Turia area right in the city centre with cycle paths and miles of coastline to ride along. The streets of Porto, however, rise up steeply from the riverside.

Public transport in general is better in Spain (particularly in and between the cities) than in Portugal. For one thing, Portugal does not have the high speed train network which Spain does, and any kind of rail service is less common. In my experience bus services tend to be less frequent in Portugal. Public transport costs in both countries are very reasonable.


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## tomwins (Dec 27, 2014)

I've been to Valencia and I'm looking at moving to Valencia next year and am going to be there in September to check out some areas and do some prep work for my move. I had planned to visit Porto in 2020 for four days so can't speak to that. You keep mentioning heat and humidity in the summer and I suspect you'd hate Valencia due to that.
Look at Weatherspark which allows you to compare up to four cities: Comparison of the Average Weather in Porto and Valencia - Weather Spark It will give you a nice comparison between areas with temperature, clear skys, and humidity seeming to be what you are most interested in.


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