# Adverse Info received - should withdraw and reapply ?



## piyush1132003 (Oct 5, 2013)

Hi,

I applied for 189 and in last stage of verification, one of my employer has given adverse information about my designation as well as authorized signatory and said that r and r document is non genuine although they confirmed that I was employed from x date till y date. I applied through MARA agent, now He is advising me to take it back. To mention more, I have claimed point for my entire experience.

My query here :
1. Now, I have been provided 28 days to reply, In case, I withdraw my case, will I get my money back by any chance ?

2.After withdrawing, if I again plan to reapply and dont want to claim any experience and will restart the process from ACS onwards and in EOI, change the designation which is written on paper and change the duration ( x date till y+1 month) date, Will DIBP or ACS create problem based on the document I submitted last time and now this time , will they compare and again send me any notification about the document i sent last time ?


PS: I have not submitted any fake document, but my emloyer was not supportive enough and my manager when given me signed r and r, date mentioned was 1 month less accidently.


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## amzamz (Jun 4, 2015)

piyush1132003 said:


> I asked him, and now He is asking money for further consultation which around 150$


Why don't you ask your own consultant to discuss it with others if they are not aware? You have paid already for their service so they should be accountable for any mis-happening. They should have analysed your application thoroughly and suggest any modification required, for what you have hired them for.


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## piyush1132003 (Oct 5, 2013)

amzamz said:


> Why don't you ask your own consultant to discuss it with others if they are not aware? You have paid already for their service so they should be accountable for any mis-happening. They should have analysed your application thoroughly and suggest any modification required, for what you have hired them for.


Thanks for suggestion Mate.

Do you think I did not ask him ?

Unfortunately, I already asked him and He is not responding me confidently and asking me to go ahead by myself now onwards as his part is over. He is only responsible to file my visa one time and if mis happening happened, He can not do anything and does not come under his responsibilities.

By the way: I already got the information that DIBP wont refund fee, Now I am seeking for the answer when I need to furnish different designation and dates for the same organisation on new application(no point claim hence, no documents to be attached) and the information I already have provided in withdrawn application for the same organisation..and in case, any question may arise or not from department ?


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## sunilkchopra (Sep 5, 2014)

piyush1132003 said:


> Hi,
> 
> I applied for 189 and in last stage of verification, one of my employer has given adverse information about my designation as well as authorized signatory and said that r and r document is non genuine although they confirmed that I was employed from x date till y date. I applied through MARA agent, now He is advising me to take it back. To mention more, I have claimed point for my entire experience.
> 
> ...



See this is my opnion if you dont withdraw then application might be rejected..Moreover accepting mistake is better. Also I dont think there will be any problem when you reapply because you already accepted your mistake


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## saz82 (Feb 25, 2014)

Who answered DIBP for verification? Maybe you can get documents supporting your claims from someone higher than your manager like a CEO or even your HR department? Do you have your original offer letter? That usually lists your job description and duties, etc. We provided so many supporting documents that no verification calls were made to our employer. Try reasoning with your employer before withdrawing.



piyush1132003 said:


> Thanks for suggestion Mate.
> 
> Do you think I did not ask him ?
> 
> ...


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## jpadda001 (Jan 15, 2012)

piyush1132003 said:


> Hi,
> 
> I applied for 189 and in last stage of verification, one of my employer has given adverse information about my designation as well as authorized signatory and said that r and r document is non genuine although they confirmed that I was employed from x date till y date. I applied through MARA agent, now He is advising me to take it back. To mention more, I have claimed point for my entire experience.
> 
> ...


brother i have also received "invitation to comment" letter. I have replied yesterday with my answers and with 46 supportive documents. I suggest you not to withdraw your application better reply them with strong evidences. if you withdraw your application then you will not get any money back.


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## piyush1132003 (Oct 5, 2013)

sunilkchopra said:


> See this is my opnion if you dont withdraw then application might be rejected..Moreover accepting mistake is better. Also I dont think there will be any problem when you reapply because you already accepted your mistake


Yes, That is only my main concern.
As per Employer, all were non genuine document ( definitely it is, because myself and my manager who signed on declaration moved, its been more than 7 years and that complete division or departmennt got laid off in 2008 recession times), now new HR has come who has only verified my employment details. and instead of saying that they can not verify the sent documents from Delhi Embassy, declared that all set of documents which i submitted are bogus because those were signed by them.
(Only one fault from my side, mistakenly, I got the declaration signed for the duration less than one month of complete employment)
Now, My hard luck...I accept that employer screwed me and as per him, I submitted bogus document. 


Now, I want to re-apply...will changing the designation and addition of that one month just as employment information in ACS and EOI will create problem ? 
As mentioned, I wont claim any point from any of the company now.
I already lost almost 4k$ and can not risk more until I get some assurity or confidence.


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## piyush1132003 (Oct 5, 2013)

jpadda001 said:


> brother i have also received "invitation to comment" letter. I have replied yesterday with my answers and with 46 supportive documents. I suggest you not to withdraw your application better reply them with strong evidences. if you withdraw your application then you will not get any money back.


I know mate, I discussed the same with my Agent too.

He said, whatever Information HR has provided, they will treat those as perfect and questions they have raised, I hardly can prove it.

They simply declared all documents sent are non genuine as they are the only signing authority and other person who signed was my colleague while she was my senior and used to assign all work.


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## Sameer1626 (May 19, 2015)

piyush1132003 said:


> Hi,
> 
> I applied for 189 and in last stage of verification, one of my employer has given adverse information about my designation as well as authorized signatory and said that r and r document is non genuine although they confirmed that I was employed from x date till y date. I applied through MARA agent, now He is advising me to take it back. To mention more, I have claimed point for my entire experience.
> 
> ...


Hi Piyush,

Its really sad to hear that 

As far as i know you will not get any refund from DIBP for sure. I would suggest that you either speak to your bosses or if you think that its not possible then withdaw your application with the loss of your visa fees......

Reapply for the same and dont claim any points for your work exp if you are making it t 60 without work exp. Also you dont have to apply for ACS again as you already have a positive assessment with you its just hat you are not claiming any points for the work exp

All the best buddy and keep us posted!!


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## piyush1132003 (Oct 5, 2013)

Sameer1626 said:


> Hi Piyush,
> 
> Its really sad to hear that
> 
> ...



Thanks mate, I do accept that I will loose my application fee.

I do want a fresh start and now from the letter directly given from HR of the company, earlier it was given by my manager.
Hence, would like a fresh start from ACS.

But only thing that worrying here me is about information provided earlier and now. Its not major but there it is.
Do they check and come back stating why you entered different designation last time and why it is different now ?

This is the answer I am seeking for.


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## piyush1132003 (Oct 5, 2013)

will DIBP pick and cross verify anything that one submitted last time in withdrawn application or will they bother only what we are going to show in current one , 

Anyone who have been refused visa or withdrawn due to unsuccessful verification and re applied ?

Sent from my XT1068 using Expat Forum


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## Teezee (Jul 15, 2015)

Piyush 
I bear with what you are going through. Please clarify the following in case we might be able to generate ideas to guide you;

1. The r and r documents you submitted, were they on the Company Letterhead signed off by your Manager who was not authorized to sign or was it just a Statement of Declaration by your Manager?

How old is it (the statement) dated in relation to the date you submitted your visa 

2. What other documents(pay slip, service record bank statements, organograms etc) did you attach to support your claims over the work experience in question?

3. Is the Manager who signed your r & r document still working for the Company?


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## R.P.G (May 29, 2015)

piyush1132003 said:


> will DIBP pick and cross verify anything that one submitted last time in withdrawn application or will they bother only what we are going to show in current one ,
> 
> Anyone who have been refused visa or withdrawn due to unsuccessful verification and re applied ?
> 
> Sent from my XT1068 using Expat Forum


Piyush, sad to hear this news.

its weird, that they called your HR for this. Haven't you submitted your tax returns and payslips?

what makes them to check further?


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## auzee_bujji (Jan 25, 2012)

piyush1132003 said:


> will DIBP pick and cross verify anything that one submitted last time in withdrawn application or will they bother only what we are going to show in current one ,
> 
> Anyone who have been refused visa or withdrawn due to unsuccessful verification and re applied ?
> 
> Sent from my XT1068 using Expat Forum


If you are 100% sure that you cannot make HR to accept, it is better to withdraw your application than getting rejected. If it is Rejected, it is once for all, and it will hurt you a lot in long run. In future visa applications to even other countries, you will face this question, have you been rejected for any visa etc.

Dont worry for finance part, over the years you can earn it rather than carrying this rejection through out the life.

Regarding your question of impact of withdrawn application, I would like to share based on my experience. I've applied two visa's in Parallel 175 and 176 (see my signature timeline), it is equivalent to 189 and 190 now. I did that to mitigate the removal of IT from SOL.

When I had two simultaneous application, I was not questioned or asked by Case officer about the other application that exists in parallel.

I got both of them approved in subsequent days.

Hope this helps


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## TheExpatriate (Feb 7, 2014)

forget getting the fee back

you have limited time to either
1- Work out your "domestic" issue with the employer and get them to rubber-stamp your documents
2- Withdraw to avoid PIC 4020 3-year ban

Fee is not going to be refunded either way ......


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## _shel (Mar 2, 2014)

piyush1132003 said:


> will DIBP pick and cross verify anything that one submitted last time in withdrawn application or will they bother only what we are going to show in current one ,
> 
> Anyone who have been refused visa or withdrawn due to unsuccessful verification and re applied ?
> 
> Sent from my XT1068 using Expat Forum


 They will keep everything and cross reference any new application to the old. Though you could still be granted a visa if all your points claims are correct and documents legitimate this time.


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## piyush1132003 (Oct 5, 2013)

Thank you everyone,
I will keep you all posted for any updates.

I have sent request to withdraw.

As said, it was genuine employment and they confirmed, yet they din confirm my designation, and manager name over there as I got all letters from my manager in year of 2012 and after that, lots of things got changed in company including lay offs.
As said, I submitted all tax statement and payslips and everything.

This time, I am going to get letters from HR instead of my managers.

Sent from my XT1068 using Expat Forum


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## piyush1132003 (Oct 5, 2013)

_shel said:


> They will keep everything and cross reference any new application to the old. Though you could still be granted a visa if all your points claims are correct and documents legitimate this time.


Thanks for hope shel, I will get all documents this time directly from HR 

Sent from my XT1068 using Expat Forum


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## piyush1132003 (Oct 5, 2013)

TheExpatriate said:


> forget getting the fee back
> 
> you have limited time to either
> 1- Work out your "domestic" issue with the employer and get them to rubber-stamp your documents
> ...


Thanks mate, I am going to withdraw.
Was more worried about ban thing, will withdraw 

Sent from my XT1068 using Expat Forum


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## piyush1132003 (Oct 5, 2013)

auzee_bujji said:


> If you are 100% sure that you cannot make HR to accept, it is better to withdraw your application than getting rejected. If it is Rejected, it is once for all, and it will hurt you a lot in long run. In future visa applications to even other countries, you will face this question, have you been rejected for any visa etc.
> 
> Dont worry for finance part, over the years you can earn it rather than carrying this rejection through out the life.
> 
> ...


Thank for suggestions and showing some hope mate , I will withdraw and re apply with fresh documents from employer.

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## TheExpatriate (Feb 7, 2014)

To withdraw, you need each adult applicant on the application to sign form 1446 and send it to your CO.

Make sure you reply to the adverse note mentioning that withdrawal in process so if the CO is late in withdrawing, they wouldn't take action re adverse note


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## piyush1132003 (Oct 5, 2013)

TheExpatriate said:


> To withdraw, you need each adult applicant on the application to sign form 1446 and send it to your CO.
> 
> Make sure you reply to the adverse note mentioning that withdrawal in process so if the CO is late in withdrawing, they wouldn't take action re adverse note


Ohh...thanks, 
That's new to me.

My MARA Agent has only only asked me to write with reason and he submitted it.

Are you sure about the process with that form 1446 ?

Thanks by the way in advance

Sent from my XT1068 using Expat Forum


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## TheExpatriate (Feb 7, 2014)

piyush1132003 said:


> Ohh...thanks,
> That's new to me.
> 
> My MARA Agent has only only asked me to write with reason and he submitted it.
> ...


damn sure. 

https://www.border.gov.au/Forms/Documents/1446.pdf

Fill, sign, and have any adult applicant (partner, parent ...etc.) sign as well


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## piyush1132003 (Oct 5, 2013)

TheExpatriate said:


> damn sure.
> 
> https://www.border.gov.au/Forms/Documents/1446.pdf
> 
> Fill, sign, and have any adult applicant (partner, parent ...etc.) sign as well


Thanks a lot, 
It helped me.
I also googled it and found it exactly as you said.

I will confirm from my agent if he is submitting this form as he is authorized to take all actions on my behalf.

And meanwhile, will ask him that he can reply to adverse mail about my withdrawal decision.

Sent from my XT1068 using Expat Forum


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## auzee_bujji (Jan 25, 2012)

piyush1132003 said:


> Thank for suggestions and showing some hope mate , I will withdraw and re apply with fresh documents from employer.
> 
> Sent from my XT1068 using Expat Forum


Glad that my post helps you. One more important point to keep in mind. During your next application, if there are any questions about your previous application without any hesitation please disclose the information and have your written justification handy. Never try to hide the adverse info/with drawal. PR journey is long term and subject to review and audit for the information you provided until you get citizenship, so try to keep things transparent with officials.

I'm 100% sure they will approve.

It seems your Agent has not done good job by catching hold of all these issues before launching the application. I dont see any value from him for your case.


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## piyush1132003 (Oct 5, 2013)

TheExpatriate said:


> damn sure.
> 
> https://www.border.gov.au/Forms/Documents/1446.pdf
> 
> Fill, sign, and have any adult applicant (partner, parent ...etc.) sign as well


Mate,

Do you have any idea about how much time usually does department take to withdraw.
As per my agents mail, he has started the process last week on Friday.

PS : unfortunately, i am not getting any reply from my agent even after so many follow ups :-(

Sent from my XT1068 using Expat Forum


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## piyush1132003 (Oct 5, 2013)

auzee_bujji said:


> Glad that my post helps you. One more important point to keep in mind. During your next application, if there are any questions about your previous application without any hesitation please disclose the information and have your written justification handy. Never try to hide the adverse info/with drawal. PR journey is long term and subject to review and audit for the information you provided until you get citizenship, so try to keep things transparent with officials.
> 
> I'm 100% sure they will approve.
> 
> It seems your Agent has not done good job by catching hold of all these issues before launching the application. I dont see any value from him for your case.


Thanks again for your valuable inputs.
Definitely yes, I will state all the reasons and answers whenever i will be asked about anything.

You are right, my agent was too lenient handling my case and I already lost lots of money in appealing ACS when he missed out sending document of one of my employer.

Many times, in fact, I have told and updated him about the recent happenings which i get to know frequently from this forum.
Anyway, better luck next time and so what I am trying 

Sent from my XT1068 using Expat Forum


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## TheExpatriate (Feb 7, 2014)

piyush1132003 said:


> Thanks again for your valuable inputs.
> Definitely yes, I will state all the reasons and answers whenever i will be asked about anything.
> 
> You are right, my agent was too lenient handling my case and I already lost lots of money in appealing ACS when he missed out sending document of one of my employer.
> ...


is your agent MARA registered?


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## piyush1132003 (Oct 5, 2013)

TheExpatriate said:


> is your agent MARA registered?


Unfortunately Yes :-(

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## TheExpatriate (Feb 7, 2014)

piyush1132003 said:


> Unfortunately Yes :-(
> 
> Sent from my XT1068 using Expat Forum


well why "unfortunately" ..... I believe you can complain and try to recoup some of your losses, especially the ACS extra fee you incurred when the agent failed to send the documents on time.


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## Pranavjalpa (Jul 13, 2015)

Dear all
I am in the same situation I have lodge my application on 17th april 2015. provided all docs including medical by 30th may. But when they called for employer verification my project lead/HR was on leave and I was on client side working . The person who received the call was a newly recruited one & messed up and said I was on leave. 
Due to difference in answer the dept has sent me a mail for justification and "Nature of justice for public intrest" on 15th july seeking my justification. 
I have justified the situation and provided more supporting documents on 27th July through agent

I am worried as I dont know what to expect now? Can any one know what will they do or when will they do enquiry at my office or do physical enquiry ? when will they revert back? The most important is will they grant my visa now?


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## jpadda001 (Jan 15, 2012)

Pranavjalpa said:


> Dear all
> I am in the same situation I have lodge my application on 17th april 2015. provided all docs including medical by 30th may. But when they called for employer verification my project lead/HR was on leave and I was on client side working . The person who received the call was a newly recruited one & messed up and said I was on leave.
> Due to difference in answer the dept has sent me a mail for justification and "Nature of justice for public intrest" on 15th july seeking my justification.
> I have justified the situation and provided more supporting documents on 27th July through agent
> ...


i have replied with 46 supportive documents on 20 july. still waiting there response but no luck


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## Pranavjalpa (Jul 13, 2015)

jpadda001 said:


> i have replied with 46 supportive documents on 20 july. still waiting there response but no luck


Have you tried to contact them? Is it ok to contact them and tell them about our response?


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## gd2015 (Jan 27, 2015)

Pranavjalpa said:


> Dear all
> I am in the same situation I have lodge my application on 17th april 2015. provided all docs including medical by 30th may. But when they called for employer verification my project lead/HR was on leave and I was on client side working . The person who received the call was a newly recruited one & messed up and said I was on leave.
> Due to difference in answer the dept has sent me a mail for justification and "Nature of justice for public intrest" on 15th july seeking my justification.
> I have justified the situation and provided more supporting documents on 27th July through agent
> ...


Hi.
Have you claimed any points for work experience? What was the reason for them to call your HR? Did you provide your roles and responsibilites in company letter head or was it a statutory declaration?


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## Pranavjalpa (Jul 13, 2015)

gd2015 said:


> Hi.
> Have you claimed any points for work experience? What was the reason for them to call your HR? Did you provide your roles and responsibilites in company letter head or was it a statutory declaration?


I have claimed points for work exp. they called my employer to verify about my work exp. I have mentioned my roles and responsibilities in company's letter head on the reference letter.


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## KeeDa (Sep 1, 2014)

@Pranav- I am not able to understand why are you in trouble just because of a small mis-information about you being on leave (on that particular day when the verification call happened) when you weren't really on leave but instead on duty at client's office?


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## TheExpatriate (Feb 7, 2014)

KeeDa said:


> @Pranav- I am not able to understand why are you in trouble just because of a small mis-information about you being on leave (on that particular day when the verification call happened) when you weren't really on leave but instead on duty at client's office?


contradictory info is always trouble


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## KeeDa (Sep 1, 2014)

TheExpatriate said:


> contradictory info is always trouble


Yes, but does this mean that OP had an earlier communication with the department about he being not on leave or working from another location, and on a certain day when the verification call came in, it was informed by the HR that he is on leave? Or does this mean that prior to going on leave, or on work at some other location, he was supposed to inform about this as "change in circumstances"?

Edit: I read the OP again and it seems that there were 2 calls made- one to the OP- where me might have mentioned "he is working in (client) office today" and the second call to the HR on the same day who mentioned "he is on leave". I think this is what might have happened and hence counts as contradictory information.


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## SqOats (Aug 20, 2014)

I dont see any issues in providing roles and responsibilities letter signed by your manager on company's letter head. Two of my friends got grant while they provided similar letters. In fact, I also provided similar letter. Lets see what my CO thinks of that once allocated.


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## TheExpatriate (Feb 7, 2014)

KeeDa said:


> Yes, but does this mean that OP had an earlier communication with the department about he being not on leave or working from another location, and on a certain day when the verification call came in, it was informed by the HR that he is on leave? Or does this mean that prior to going on leave, or on work at some other location, he was supposed to inform about this as "change in circumstances"?


probably they called him and he said he's on duty, then called HR (same day or just afterwards) who said he's on leave.


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## KeeDa (Sep 1, 2014)

TheExpatriate said:


> probably they called him and he said he's on duty, then called HR (same day or just afterwards) who said he's on leave.


Yes, thanks for clarifying. I too thought about it and guessed that this is what may have happened.

@Pranav- I wish you the best. Hope you and the said person were able to provide satisfactory response to the department. Do let us know the outcome.


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## TheExpatriate (Feb 7, 2014)

SqOats said:


> I dont see any issues in providing roles and responsibilities letter signed by your manager on company's letter head. Two of my friends got grant while they provided similar letters. In fact, I also provided similar letter. Lets see what my CO thinks of that once allocated.


It can be a big problem because if you get picked for employer verification (totally random), they will insist on getting the docs/info rubber stamped by the HR, and not the manager. 


It happened with me, and HR were stubborn (they said yes it's genuine but not issued by HR and hence we can't respond to the embassy), but the department head managed to convince them to respond.

Looking back, I get tremors in my body thinking of what could've happened if they insisted on not responding


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## jpadda001 (Jan 15, 2012)

Pranavjalpa said:


> Have you tried to contact them? Is it ok to contact them and tell them about our response?


i did not contact them. even i don't want to. I will wait for natural outcome. now i am not in hurry


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## SqOats (Aug 20, 2014)

TheExpatriate said:


> It can be a big problem because if you get picked for employer verification (totally random), they will insist on getting the docs/info rubber stamped by the HR, and not the manager.
> 
> 
> It happened with me, and HR were stubborn (they said yes it's genuine but not issued by HR and hence we can't respond to the embassy), but the department head managed to convince them to respond.
> ...


I see. Actually in my company, VP is the authority and I have got intro letter and salary certificate signed and stamped by VP. But, roles and responsibilities letter is signed by my manager only WITHOUT company stamp. All letters are on company letter head.

Is it advisable that I get the same roles and responsibilities letter again with additional VP sign and stamp and upload on immiacount without even being asked by CO. Or, shall I wait and provide such letter only if asked. I can convince my VP to sign the same doc, I feel so stupid I didnt do it in the first go.

Also, in your case all the docs were signed by manager or only roles and responsibilities letter?


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## TheExpatriate (Feb 7, 2014)

SqOats said:


> I see. Actually in my company, VP is the authority and I have got intro letter and salary certificate signed and stamped by VP. But, roles and responsibilities letter is signed by my manager only WITHOUT company stamp. All letters are on company letter head.
> 
> Is it advisable that I get the same roles and responsibilities letter again with additional VP sign and stamp and upload on immiacount without even being asked by CO. Or, shall I wait and provide such letter only if asked. I can convince my VP to sign the same doc, I feel so stupid I didnt do it in the first go.
> 
> Also, in your case all the docs were signed by manager or only roles and responsibilities letter?


No, don't change nothing. Just make sure if they speak to HR and/or VP, they will OK the manager's letter


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## SqOats (Aug 20, 2014)

TheExpatriate said:


> No, don't change nothing. Just make sure if they speak to HR and/or VP, they will OK the manager's letter


Ok ,Thanks. Lets hope for the best.

May i ask, what happened in your case? Did you submit all the docs signed by your manager?. Also, did DIBP call and HR refused to comment on R&R letter and they sent you the comment email or you managed to resolve the issues internally before verification call?.

Thanks


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## TheExpatriate (Feb 7, 2014)

SqOats said:


> Ok ,Thanks. Lets hope for the best.
> 
> May i ask, what happened in your case? Did you submit all the docs signed by your manager?. Also, did DIBP call and HR refused to comment on R&R letter and they sent you the comment email or you managed to resolve the issues internally before verification call?.
> 
> Thanks


they called and emailed HR, which were reluctant to respond, then later on they responded saying that yes I worked there for this period of time, and they delegated the verification of R&R to the dept head, which OK'ed it, and that satisfied immigration 


And yes, initially HR responded internally to the dept head, so DIBP never got a negative reply


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## SqOats (Aug 20, 2014)

Thank you for the clarification. I assume R&R was signed by same dept head who verified it.

Mine could be the similar case as yours if it comes to verification call. I will tell HR guys to verify the general employment details and forward to my manager for R&R related queries. 

I am surprised to see that they contacted via email. That would be ideal as there will be less chances of error than phone call.


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## mandy2137 (Mar 5, 2014)

TheExpatriate said:


> they called and emailed HR, which were reluctant to respond, then later on they responded saying that yes I worked there for this period of time, and they delegated the verification of R&R to the dept head, which OK'ed it, and that satisfied immigration
> 
> 
> And yes, initially HR responded internally to the dept head, so DIBP never got a negative reply


For how many companies you worked? Were they conducted verification in all?


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## TheExpatriate (Feb 7, 2014)

mandy2137 said:


> For how many companies you worked? Were they conducted verification in all?


claimed 3 companies in 2 countries, they verified 2 companies in one country


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## Pranavjalpa (Jul 13, 2015)

KeeDa said:


> Yes, thanks for clarifying. I too thought about it and guessed that this is what may have happened.
> 
> @Pranav- I wish you the best. Hope you and the said person were able to provide satisfactory response to the department. Do let us know the outcome.


Thanks for ur good wishes ..
Ya same happend I said i m working on client side and t he person in the company said that i m on leave. He even said that the HR is not present so you better call the next day . but they never called back.
I have submitted explanations and documents of support in my favour . I am waiting ...
Dont know when and how r they gona contact us. Will they come in person or will just call at the office to verify.


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## KeeDa (Sep 1, 2014)

I hope it all works out in your favour. What all did you provide them? A joint affidavit between you and that HR person about the mis-communication? Did you also provide attendance register copy from the client office and maybe a letter from the client too- to prove that you were working from that location on that day?


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## Pranavjalpa (Jul 13, 2015)

KeeDa said:


> I hope it all works out in your favour. What all did you provide them? A joint affidavit between you and that HR person about the mis-communication? Did you also provide attendance register copy from the client office and maybe a letter from the client too- to prove that you were working from that location on that day?


Ya a letter from the client stating about our meeting. also an affidavit from me as well as HR and my project Manager


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## piyush1132003 (Oct 5, 2013)

TheExpatriate said:


> It can be a big problem because if you get picked for employer verification (totally random), they will insist on getting the docs/info rubber stamped by the HR, and not the manager.
> 
> It happened with me, and HR were stubborn (they said yes it's genuine but not issued by HR and hence we can't respond to the embassy), but the department head managed to convince them to respond.
> 
> Looking back, I get tremors in my body thinking of what could've happened if they insisted on not responding


Ditto, you went through from this situation and unfortunately, I was stuck and though my employer where I worked from 2008-2010 verified about my employment and but said negative about my manager and letter, as they insisted all the letters should have been gone through them.

And now, I had no choice and lost my time, money and my dream :-(

Sent from my XT1068 using Expat Forum


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## Pranavjalpa (Jul 13, 2015)

piyush1132003 said:


> Ditto, you went through from this situation and unfortunately, I was stuck and though my employer where I worked from 2008-2010 verified about my employment and but said negative about my manager and letter, as they insisted all the letters should have been gone through them.
> 
> And now, I had no choice and lost my time, money and my dream :-(
> 
> Sent from my XT1068 using Expat Forum


Dear Piyush 

Did you made a response to Nature of justice mail?
If yes then how much time they took to revert back?

I have made a response and waiting ... please help ..


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## piyush1132003 (Oct 5, 2013)

Pranavjalpa said:


> Dear Piyush
> 
> Did you made a response to Nature of justice mail?
> If yes then how much time they took to revert back?
> ...


Withdrawn as I had no document to state that who was my manager or who was not.
I was not able to prove that.
Sorry mate, couldn't help you !!!

Sent from my XT1068 using Expat Forum


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## Pranavjalpa (Jul 13, 2015)

piyush1132003 said:


> Withdrawn as I had no document to state that who was my manager or who was not.
> I was not able to prove that.
> Sorry mate, couldn't help you !!!
> 
> Sent from my XT1068 using Expat Forum


Thanks for your input.
If you have any knowledge about such situations , If any one is having any knowledge abt "nature of justice" or invitaion to comment then please help. I have given response and dont know what will happen now?


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## TheExpatriate (Feb 7, 2014)

Pranavjalpa said:


> Thanks for your input.
> If you have any knowledge about such situations , If any one is having any knowledge abt "nature of justice" or invitaion to comment then please help. I have given response and dont know what will happen now?


I have seen people who received an NJ notice and prevailed, one of them was here on the forum ..... he told me his company was sold to a new owner and when they called the new owner he denied he ever worked for him (old man, owns multiple businesses, could not even remember him)

He provided proof the business ownership was recently transferred, provided his employment visa with the employer, affidavits from colleagues, further payslips and bank statements, labor card .....etc., eventually he got his visa


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## Pranavjalpa (Jul 13, 2015)

TheExpatriate said:


> I have seen people who received an NJ notice and prevailed, one of them was here on the forum ..... he told me his company was sold to a new owner and when they called the new owner he denied he ever worked for him (old man, owns multiple businesses, could not even remember him)
> 
> He provided proof the business ownership was recently transferred, provided his employment visa with the employer, affidavits from colleagues, further payslips and bank statements, labor card .....etc., eventually he got his visa


Thanks for your encouraging words.. Happy to hear something positive..


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## Pranavjalpa (Jul 13, 2015)

Hello Seniors
I have submitted required documents regarding my employment in reply to Natural Justice mail. It was submitted on 27th july. Its been more than a month since I have received the Natural Justice mail. Should I call the dept for a reminder? I have replied through agent . He suggested not to call. I dont know what to do ...? should I call the dept??


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## jpadda001 (Jan 15, 2012)

Pranavjalpa said:


> Hello Seniors
> I have submitted required documents regarding my employment in reply to Natural Justice mail. It was submitted on 27th july. Its been more than a month since I have received the Natural Justice mail. Should I call the dept for a reminder? I have replied through agent . He suggested not to call. I dont know what to do ...? should I call the dept??


call them bro. they are sleeping call them and tell them that u have sent all information via email on ..... date


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## faroutsam (Jul 30, 2015)

I am on the verge of placing EOI. I have worked in the company ABC from 2008-2010 and that company was taken over by another company XYZ in 2013. I have also worked with this XYZ company (same staff as ABC) from 2014-2015 for one year. Person endorsing my employment reference letter for both these employment is same. 

My question is how do i communicate this info to DIBP when i lodge my application. 

Thanks


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## jewelthief (May 1, 2015)

My CO contacted me in Mid September and sent me Natural Justice letter to ask me for my comments. My organization confirmed that I was employed during the specific time but didn't disclose my duties due to their information security policy. I replied within 3 days attaching statutory declaration of my supervisor. In parallel, I informed CO with an email that I am trying to obtain a foreign country PCC for my spouse (which DIBP needs) and It will take some more days to get it.

Now exactly after 42 days of natural justice letter, I got a reply from my CO in reply to the mail that I sent him about PCC of my spouse. The response only contained "Thank you for your information. Best Regards"

Does this mean that my CO has gone through my case and my reply to his natural justice letter? Should this also mean that he is satisfied with my response and only waiting for PCC of my spouse? 

Any body who has gone through this experience?


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## Teezee (Jul 15, 2015)

jewelthief said:


> My CO contacted me in Mid September and sent me Natural Justice letter to ask me for my comments. My organization confirmed that I was employed during the specific time but didn't disclose my duties due to their information security policy. I replied within 3 days attaching statutory declaration of my supervisor. In parallel, I informed CO with an email that I am trying to obtain a foreign country PCC for my spouse (which DIBP needs) and It will take some more days to get it.
> 
> Now exactly after 42 days of natural justice letter, I got a reply from my CO in reply to the mail that I sent him about PCC of my spouse. The response only contained "Thank you for your information. Best Regards"
> 
> ...



It means they are reviewing your case based on the responses and evidence you submitted. You should also have submitted all the documents they asked for; why haven't you submitted your spouse's PCC? This can work against you as they may adjudicate your application based on the information you have submitted and it appears you haven't submitted all the required documents to process your application. 

Remember the Department is under no obligation to request further documents from you; they can decide your case based on what they have.

On another note I do not wish to be judgmental but why use the moniker "jewelthief" ? Now you have issued you with a "natural justice" letter. 
Could this be poetic justice??? 

Anyway Best wishes & Good luck.


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## Ashutosh Mehta (Oct 16, 2015)

All,

My query is - how big are these companies where they are making inquiry about? Are they MNCs or 1000+ employees in the same country etc? 

Reason I ask, A hr would definitely not know whether someone on leave or NOT, unless, they have spoken to the Manager for the resource in question. This is not how big companies operate.

Assuming an HR Analyst sitting on the desk, knowing it all about the person who might have left 7 - 8 years back is just day dreaming!

Can someone please shed more light as to nature of these companies/employer are?

I am equally worried because, one of my past employer was a UK Based MNC, was taken over by a French Company and since I left - again been taken over by another French Group now. My Salary Slips for the tenure, including Form 16 - says year one UK Based company name, next year French company name. To add to miserable situation, even the bank I had salary account was overtaken by another major UK based bank for India and UK operations. But I have all the statements.

During all this, there is hardly any person left who used to work with me in the company (including Managers and Senior Managers). Expecting HR to be verifying it all - I don't think so is fair ask.

Is it going to pose any challenge?

Please advise.

Thanks!


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## Teezee (Jul 15, 2015)

No need to panic whenever Immigration require further clarifications from you, depose your explanation with a statutory declaration giving all the necessary supporting documents to support your claims. 

They know that companies do change ownership from time to time and records may not be kept - but then you would need to convince Immigration that this is so and you are not making an unfounded claim because the ideal, when it comes to employment history, roles \& responsibilities is to submit signed confirmation by your former employer. 

Where this is not possible for whatever reason, you have to go the extra mile to prove so. So the onus is on you prove that your claims are legitimate, otherwise they may assume it to be a fraudulent claim.


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## Ashutosh Mehta (Oct 16, 2015)

Teezee said:


> No need to panic whenever Immigration require further clarifications from you, depose your explanation with a statutory declaration giving all the necessary supporting documents to support your claims.
> 
> They know that companies do change ownership from time to time and records may not be kept - but then you would need to convince Immigration that this is so and you are not making an unfounded claim because the ideal, when it comes to employment history, roles \& responsibilities is to submit signed confirmation by your former employer.
> 
> Where this is not possible for whatever reason, you have to go the extra mile to prove so. So the onus is on you prove that your claims are legitimate, otherwise they may assume it to be a fraudulent claim.


Thanks Teezee! Victims of the situations led by employers!


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## jewelthief (May 1, 2015)

> Originally Posted by *Teezee*
> It means they are reviewing your case based on the responses and evidence you submitted. You should also have submitted all the documents they asked for; why haven't you submitted your spouse's PCC? This can work against you as they may adjudicate your application based on the information you have submitted and it appears you haven't submitted all the required documents to process your application.
> 
> Remember the Department is under no obligation to request further documents from you; they can decide your case based on what they have.
> ...


I did send them PCC of my spouse of our native country but she has spent more than 12 months in a foreign country which is very far from our country and really difficult to get PCC from there as we have no relatives or friends there. I have asked our embassy in that country to help us sort this issue which will take time that is why informed my CO.

As far as natural justice is concerned: I work for company X but I was inducted in company Y. Me and my other colleagues including my supervisor got transferred from Y to X 4 years ago. Both are government companies and company X is umbrella organization of company Y so my service with company Y is also acknowledged by company X. Both companies are very strict on their information security policies that is why I attached statutory declaration of my supervisor. I attached payslips, tax returns, transfer letter etc. DIBP called company Y for my verification and their HR only confirmed my employment duration but no other specifics. The one mistake I think I had done is not to upload transfer letter of my supervisor. I think CO had that impression that my supervisor only supervised me in company X. 

Anyway I have replied to CO to consider statutory declaration of my supervisor for both companies X and Y and I have attached supervisor's transfer letter as well and some other documents too.

The other objection that CO raised in his letter is that my payslips weren't matching to my bank statements which actually were. I sent him my bank statement again by highlighting transactions.


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## jpadda001 (Jan 15, 2012)

yoooooooooooooohoooooooooooo got my visa today


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## deepgill (May 30, 2015)

Congratulations.. Bro.


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## dwarasilareddy (Jun 7, 2014)

jpadda001 said:


> yoooooooooooooohoooooooooooo got my visa today


Congratulations buddy...you have strong will power..crossed all those hurdles firmly and patiently. I'm very happy for you as I was following your case closely on forum.


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## jpadda001 (Jan 15, 2012)

dwarasilareddy said:


> Congratulations buddy...you have strong will power..crossed all those hurdles firmly and patiently. I'm very happy for you as I was following your case closely on forum.


thanks sir 

it was a long battle between me and DIBP. i have received two "invitation to comment" letters from them one was adverse info received and another is conflicted info received. But i have prove myself that my case is genuine and finally i have won this battle.

I request everyone who received :invitation to comment" not to worry about just relax and reply them with your supportive documents.

thanks


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## jadu87 (Aug 23, 2015)

Congratulations jpadda! I was reading all your experiences and you have finally crossed each of them.. Now its time for you enjoy the moment!


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## jewelthief (May 1, 2015)

jpadda001 said:


> thanks sir
> 
> it was a long battle between me and DIBP. i have received two "invitation to comment" letters from them one was adverse info received and another is conflicted info received. But i have prove myself that my case is genuine and finally i have won this battle.
> 
> ...


Congratulations! Can you share us dates you received both letters? I mean did you receive both letters in the same correspondence? What was "conflicting information" letter about? When did you get it?

Best Regards


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## Pranavjalpa (Jul 13, 2015)

jpadda001 said:


> thanks sir
> 
> it was a long battle between me and DIBP. i have received two "invitation to comment" letters from them one was adverse info received and another is conflicted info received. But i have prove myself that my case is genuine and finally i have won this battle.
> 
> ...


What an awesome news!!!! many congratulations dear.....U r a real fighter..
Enjoy ur time....


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## samage (Jul 9, 2015)

Any one can response here who received natural justice email. What was his/her response and what was outcome. I received that email and i have been asked to comment on it. I dont know what to ask.


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## Teezee (Jul 15, 2015)

The natural justice letter requires you to explain the inconsistencies between the information you submitted on the application and the supporting documents to prove your claims. The response is dependent on the issues that they raise in the natural justice letter.

The labelling "natural justice" is a euphemism for granting you you the right to rspond before they make a decision. In other words they are doubting your claims and require of you to prove them otherwise by substantiating your claims with further evidence.

Hope this helps


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## samage (Jul 9, 2015)

The simply said that DIBP tried many times but they did not contact with your employer. I dont understand whether no body picked the call or they unable to call on right number.


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## Teezee (Jul 15, 2015)

I suppose they failed to get through to your previous employers to verify and ascertain your employment records and your roles and responsibilities.

I have observers on the Forum, others in similar circumstances have gone out their way to resubmit confirmation of employment, roles and responsibilities signed off and stamped by the employer as well as the contact details for the relevant officials usually in HR Department should they need to verify.

Hope this helps


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## samage (Jul 9, 2015)

Thanks Teezee, I am looking to prepare a comprehensive response for CO. Possible he will not go for any verification further and make a decision. Thats thing which making me upset.


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## samage (Jul 9, 2015)

Any guy success sotry here...


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## Teezee (Jul 15, 2015)

Samage
You seem to be anxious, restless and unsettled by the natural justice letter. I understand and bear with your circumstances however you need to relax and concentrate on responding convincingly to the issues that they are seeking clarifications on. Most postings on this thread of people in similar circumstances bear testimony to this you will prevail, if you do so. To give you inspiration and probably some consolation read the postings by the avatar going by the name " *the expatriate" on the same plight as yours. I am sure you will find consolation and some tips on through his experience and how he handled the matter.

Relax pal. it will b ok*


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## samage (Jul 9, 2015)

Any body have to update their case after CO reply. Please update


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## samage (Jul 9, 2015)

On 13 January, I replied to CO email of Natural Justice (Adverse Information Received). Gave possible reasons why my employment was not verified and provided below additional documents which were earlier not provided.

1.	Latest employment letter issued by my company and provided direct contact number and email. This letter further certified by Saudi Chamber of Commerce confirms both my employment and company are genuine.
2.	Employment contract signed at the time of joining
3.	Yearly increment and promotional letters
4.	Latest salary slips after visa lodging 
5.	Bank statement certified from bank
6.	My Saudi Govt. ID card showing my employer 
7.	Medical insurance cards issued by company


I hope above all will be enough to support my response. What would be next? CO will go for again verification or will make decision in presence of all above documents?


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## jewelthief (May 1, 2015)

I was sent adverse info in sep, 2015 to which I replied within 3 days. In between, in late November, 2015, I was informed by CO that DIBP will try to obtain my wife's pending PCC of a South American country on her behalf because I was not able to get it due to little acquaintances there. 

Its been 4 months now after adverse info letter and CO hasn't rejected my application as yet and they are going to try to obtain PCC of my wife by themselves. I would like to have you people's guess that whether I have successfully weathered that storm?


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## tankit (Jun 22, 2015)

TheExpatriate said:


> I have seen people who received an NJ notice and prevailed, one of them was here on the forum ..... he told me his company was sold to a new owner and when they called the new owner he denied he ever worked for him (old man, owns multiple businesses, could not even remember him)
> 
> He provided proof the business ownership was recently transferred, provided his employment visa with the employer, affidavits from colleagues, further payslips and bank statements, labor card .....etc., eventually he got his visa


Hiii 
A2Z kindly let me know how much time it take to approve 489 FS visa..


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## Black_Rose (Nov 28, 2013)

tankit said:


> Hiii
> A2Z kindly let me know how much time it take to approve 489 FS visa..


hi, how they normally verify employer? they called or visited physically in your case? Thanks


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## tankit (Jun 22, 2015)

Black_Rose said:


> hi, how they normally verify employer? they called or visited physically in your case? Thanks[/QUOTE
> 
> Hi they did telephonic verification on my case...


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## tankit (Jun 22, 2015)

Need Help

Today I received invitation to comment letter. CO mentioned Following points 

1. As part of your visa application lodged on 05 May 2015, you made claims to have been
employed with Aton Informatics from 5 June 2010 with the business becoming a private
limited firm as of 2014. We have also received confirmation of your resignation from the
dated as of 15 October 2015


On 14 August 2015 investigations were conducted by departmental officers who contacted
yourself as well as your referee Mr ABC. The following inconsistencies were
identifed during the investigation.

✃ Your referee stated that your Designation is Senior Software Engineer however you said
your designation as Software Engineer.

✃ Your referee stated that you were attending to technical issues at XYZ
(Sports company) on the day of the call however you stated that you
were at ABC COMPANY

✃ Your referee stated that the company has developed and installed many softwares and
have many projects in hospitals and institutes however when you were asked to name
a few of the softwares you or your company had designed you were not able to provide
any information.

✃ The referee stated that ABC is a small scale company and in addition to
the directors there are 3 staff members. A team leader, yourself and another software
engineer. Despite the small scale of the business and the roles of the other staff
members you stated that you didn’t know any of them and only knew the directors.


On 06 November 2015 further investigations were conducted by departmental officers
who attended your place of employment ABC located at SCO 3, Central Town,
Upon their arrival they found the office to be closed which was located in
the basement of the building.

Departmental officers met with the owner of the building Mr SINGH who stated that
he has owned the building for the past 10 years. He confirmed that there was a business by
the name of ABC operating from his basement and was able to name Mr ABC who signed your reference letter as director of company

Departmental officers showed Mr Singh your photograph however he was not able to identify
you. He stated that he had never seen you work for Aton Informatics or any other business
operating in his building or nearby shops.
Based on the inconsistencies identified from the investigations in August 2015 as well
as the owner of the building having never seen you in the past year and a half I find that
the information provided in the reference to be false and misleading in relation to your
employment claims


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## dedm (Nov 4, 2015)

How are we supposed to submit the form for withdrawing our application? Do we simply e-mail it back to [email protected] or upload it into ImmiAccount or is there a whole different way?


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## jewelthief (May 1, 2015)

I want to share the good news that I have been granted visa today. I also received adverse info. letter but I made a strong and reasonable reply, step by step explaining everything that CO asked for and God has helped me along.


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## deepgill (May 30, 2015)

jewelthief said:


> I want to share the good news that I have been granted visa today. I also received adverse info. letter but I made a strong and reasonable reply, step by step explaining everything that CO asked for and God has helped me along.


Hi jewelthief you have stolen visa grant CONRAtulations... Mate.


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## tankit (Jun 22, 2015)

jewelthief said:


> I want to share the good news that I have been granted visa today. I also received adverse info. letter but I made a strong and reasonable reply, step by step explaining everything that CO asked for and God has helped me along.


congrates mate.....


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## sipoflifein (Oct 21, 2015)

Many Congratulations , your grit, confidence and hard work paid off..
Time for celebrations



jewelthief said:


> I want to share the good news that I have been granted visa today. I also received adverse info. letter but I made a strong and reasonable reply, step by step explaining everything that CO asked for and God has helped me along.


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## rrajai (Jan 21, 2013)

jewelthief said:


> I want to share the good news that I have been granted visa today. I also received adverse info. letter but I made a strong and reasonable reply, step by step explaining everything that CO asked for and God has helped me along.


Congrats mate,
Please share your timeline. Specially after receiving adverse info. Letter.


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## rrajai (Jan 21, 2013)

jewelthief said:


> I want to share the good news that I have been granted visa today. I also received adverse info. letter but I made a strong and reasonable reply, step by step explaining everything that CO asked for and God has helped me along.


Have they again verified your detail regarding your employment?


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## OZxperts (Jan 25, 2016)

piyush1132003 said:


> Hi,
> 
> I applied for 189 and in last stage of verification, one of my employer has given adverse information about my designation as well as authorized signatory and said that r and r document is non genuine although they confirmed that I was employed from x date till y date. I applied through MARA agent, now He is advising me to take it back. To mention more, I have claimed point for my entire experience.
> 
> ...


Hi 
Please ask your consultant for the 
Copy of EOI submitted 
Copy of application Submitted 
Calculate each date of Employment DD MM YY to DD MM YY 
There after if you have substantial evidence like 
Service Letter from HR (mentioning the start date and end date)
Form 16 or TDS Certificate
Bank Statement in which net salary is credited 

and all are in same line as submitted in EOI & DIBP application then you must take it ahead


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## jewelthief (May 1, 2015)

rrajai said:


> Have they again verified your detail regarding your employment?


I dont know if they have but my case was straight forward I believe. HR department of my employer confirmed that I was employed there.


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## rrajai (Jan 21, 2013)

jewelthief said:


> I dont know if they have but my case was straight forward I believe. HR department of my employer confirmed that I was employed there.


Would you please let me know which type of questions were raised by them in nature of justice letter.


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## jewelthief (May 1, 2015)

rrajai said:


> Would you please let me know which type of questions were raised by them in nature of justice letter.


There was only one comment. They said that your employer confirmed that you worked there but your employer didn't disclose your duties so they were not able to verify that I worked as a Software Engineer.

In response, I uploaded some documents such as interview letter, on-job trainings etc as proofs and a statutory declaration of my supervisor.


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## samage (Jul 9, 2015)

jewelthief said:


> There was only one comment. They said that your employer confirmed that you worked there but your employer didn't disclose your duties so they were not able to verify that I worked as a Software Engineer.
> 
> In response, I uploaded some documents such as interview letter, on-job trainings etc as proofs and a statutory declaration of my supervisor.


I am in similar situation, please share when you replied and then after how much DIBP/CO took to reply. I am trying to send you PM but not sent.


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## Shail_adl (Aug 9, 2016)

Pranavjalpa said:


> Thanks for your input.
> If you have any knowledge about such situations , If any one is having any knowledge abt "nature of justice" or invitaion to comment then please help. I have given response and dont know what will happen now?


Pranav Hi, i will be much obliged if u can share me what was the outcome of your Natural Justice revert made to DIBP.
Since i too got the NJ letter and reverted and now waiting for the outcome
Txs


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## Giri vishnu (Apr 9, 2014)

Hi Piyush- which is your agent in Hyderabad?

Thanks
Giri


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## navjotarora89 (Nov 1, 2015)

jpadda001 said:


> brother i have also received "invitation to comment" letter. I have replied yesterday with my answers and with 46 supportive documents. I suggest you not to withdraw your application better reply them with strong evidences. if you withdraw your application then you will not get any money back.


Hi I need some help. I am also stuck in the same situation. Please can I call you to get more info. I will be very grateful if you can talk to me and explain a bit more about this.

Regards,
Navjot Arora.


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## Justvw1121 (Jun 24, 2018)

Hi I also looking for advice for my case. I received an invitation of comment letter from immigration and need to give explanation in 28 days. 
I lodged my partner and my 186 application on the day when my partner arrived Australia by tourist visa ( without no further stay condition),
In an informally interviewing my partner informed the border officer that he was not intent to stay in Australia in 12 months and the reason he came back was to have his car sold. The Minister is not satisfy that my partner misleding an officer at airport to granted his tourist visa. 
My partner granted a bridge visa A afterlodged our applications and his tourist visa expired 5 months ago. 
-If we only withdraw his application, will my application be effected? Or should we withdraw our applications and resubmit only mine?
-If he withdraw his application, do we still need give explainations?

Thanks in advance


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