# Massacre at Connecticut elementary school leaves dozens dead



## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

being reported in Spain - 27 dead including 18 children - so sad 


Massacre at Connecticut elementary school leaves dozens dead : News : ConnectMidMissouri.com




> NEWTOWN, Conn. (AP) — A shooting at a Connecticut elementary school Friday left 27 people dead, including 18 children, an official said.
> The official spoke on condition of anonymity because the investigation was still under way. Another official, speaking on condition of anonymity for the same reason, said the gunman at Sandy Hook Elementary in Newtown was killed and apparently had two guns.


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## twostep (Apr 3, 2008)

This is insanity!


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## Sage (Oct 19, 2010)

It is a very sad and distressing report to see, I feel so very, very sorry for all involved and wish there was somthing I could do to help...


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## mamasue (Oct 7, 2008)

He was apparently out to get his mother who worked as a teacher at the school....
If you hate the world, by all means shoot yourself, but why take 26 people, including 20 little kids too??
This is just pure evil!!!!!


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## Christchurch Lad (Dec 15, 2012)

I can't imagine how the families of those killed are feeling right now. More needs to be done to assure those who are mentally unstable can't get their hands on firearms.


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## Sunset (Jan 24, 2011)

Christchurch Lad said:


> I can't imagine how the families of those killed are feeling right now. More needs to be done to assure those who are mentally unstable can't get their hands on firearms.


The guns belonged to the mother who was obviously stable enough to be given a gun license and purchase guns. She was irresponsible and careless with them and her son got access to them. He lived with her and she had to be aware of his mental state. All the more not to have guns or be more responsible in securing them.

99% of murders (excluding self-defense) committed are committed by people who do not have a license. The problem is gun control, depending on how you look at it - should we be able to easily arm outselves, or should gun control be tightened? 

The right to bear arms was not meant to be an individual right, but the right for a country to bear arms to defend itself and for government to defend citizens.


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## jsharbuck (Jul 26, 2012)

Dear Sunset,

I have to take exception with some of your comments in the most civil way of course. What happened is a tragedy beyond comprehension and was pure evil. But here are a few points perhaps to ponder.

1. To call the mother, who was brutally murdered, irresponsible and to somehow place blame on her is ? You and I have no idea if she saw a problem, sought help, or if that was even warranted. . We have no idea but seem to be good at laying blame. This young man was sick or he wouldn't have done this. Laws in our country seem to protect the child and their rights and tie their parents hands. After getting into trouble years ago, our 15 yr old entered treatment only as long as he wanted to. As parents who were legally responsible, we did not have the authority to keep him in treatment or in school. He even had teachers who were counseling him on his rights. We were good parents but he made some bad choices and ended up in jail for a year.

2. The Second Amendment was indeed written to allow citizens to not only defend their country but to enable them to defend themselves against a government that had the potential to act against its own citizens. Our Founding Fathers saw the possibility of this happening. 

It's my personal belief that we are heading in that direction. Not too many people are feeling that our government is there to defend us, just look how that worked out for our people in Libya.


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## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

I've been reading a book by Temple Grandin, on what it's like to be autistic. (She's actually got Asperger's, which means she is a high functioning autistic.) Ever since this tragedy first came to light, there have been signs that perhaps the shooter had Aspergers and even a few articles now are mentioning this - although it's still not clear if he had been diagnosed or not.

I don't think the shooter was necessarily "evil" - he may have just hit a crisis point where he was frustrated, overreacted and then just started running. This is all complicated by the fact of his mother having been something of a gun nut. Sorry, but no one needs assault weapons. Not for hunting, not for sport shooting and certainly not for "personal defense." 

It's a huge cop out to condemn the kid as a "loser" or "loner" or even "mentally ill." And it's a bigger cop out to try to warp this around to a defense of the right to bear arms by any and all citizens, including assault weapons (which are, after all, "weapons of mass destruction" on a personal scale). 

This was a tragic "accident" just waiting to happen in the violent gun culture of the US. It makes no sense that assault weapons should be readily and easily available in a home with an autistic family member, who by definition has problems with social interactions and empathizing with others. It's probably too late to get rid of the zillions of over-powered firearms out there already, but something has to be done about limiting access to the military grade hardware and at least trying to motivate those with aggressive arms like those to give them up. It might also help to have a decent health care system that provides for adequate care and treatment for those with autism, learning disabilities and other conditions that isolate people.

But this isn't a battle between "good" and "evil." That's making light of a tragic and dangerous situation. 
Cheers,
Bev


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## AndrewMA (Dec 16, 2012)

This is so sad... I can't imagine how the familly should feel... :'(
May God help them!!!


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## Cleo Shahateet (Feb 23, 2009)

Violence is not a characteristic of Aspergers or Autism. There are many people with mental health issues such as bi-polar, schizophrenia and other disorders that tend to have more aggression but who live full, "normal" lives and no one would even know they have any problems because with medication, therapy and a good support system things like this NEVER have to happen. Some people are just pure evil though and no medication or law will stop them from going on a rampage. To slow it down at least assault rifles need to be banned. Gun laws all around in the US need to be tightened and regulated. We have to re-register our cars, take driving tests and so on to drive/own a car so it has to be at least the same for guns!!


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## stormgal (Sep 30, 2009)

What a tragic incident indeed and my heart goes out to those families.

But I don't think it is the guns that need to be regulated, I believe that big pharmaceutical companies need to stop prescribing mental medication as if they were Skittles. The culprit is clearly the Valiums, Prozac and other psychotic medications that need to be regulated. Children and young adults should not be popping pills. These big pharma companies are making way too much money prescribing mental drugs and making people addicted to them.

Look at Switzerland - the country has one of the highest gun ownerships in the world and yet you don't see this type of of violence over there. The problem clearly is not the guns, but the apparent social breakdown that is currently happening within some families in the United States. These people are not getting the love and the full family support that they need, and this is a sad reality. If people felt loved and needed, they wouldn't go on those sprees, much less take medication to help them in areas where family and warm social circles should.


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## Cleo Shahateet (Feb 23, 2009)

We can't really blame one thing as we don't know what was going on with this shooter as of yet. I agree that psychiatrists are over-prescribing drugs. We know of a 4 year old on Zoloft!! It is easier for parents and teachers to give or suggest drugs than deal with a "difficult" child. Drugs work for some when appropriate but clearly not on children as young as 4!

That is interesting about Switzerland but I still think we need tougher laws on guns in the US. 

I have seen blame directed at people with "mental illness" but we can't put ALL people with mental illness in a stereotypical box and not allow them to own a gun if they had no prior incidents. "Mental illness" is not Aspergers or Autism and there are a lot of fully functioning bipolar people for example. Not allowing them to own a gun could be like denying any person who likes to drink a bit too much the right to own a car in case they drink and drive or any known alcoholic for that matter. We just need across the board better gun laws/screening and better support and awareness of depressed/suicidal or people with mental illness.


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## Cleo Shahateet (Feb 23, 2009)

Personally, I think we do need a ban on assault weapons though. No one needs one!


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## stormgal (Sep 30, 2009)

I do agree about the tougher laws, but not with the total abolishment of the right to own guns. I know many people with assault weapons and they come from normal families and would never even think about harming people. Many people are simply collectors or just like having them around. It is no different from owning a muscle car or a big truck that you don't need. 

But still, I really don't think the type of weapon has anything to do with this. Think about it - if someone wanted to kill like a maniac, they simply would with or without a gun. Take for instance, Timothy McVeigh who blew up an entire federal building.

Ironically, on the same day that the tragedy happened in Sandy Hook, the same thing happened in China but with a knife. Some mental case slashed 22 children with a knife. You can read about that incident here: 

Min Yingjun Injures 22 Schoolchildren During Chengping, China Stabbing Spree | Moral Low Ground

I really do think the root is a social one, not a gun or knife issue. That there are far too many families growing up without the love and proper care that they need. People just feel despair, but why? That is the real issue.


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## jsharbuck (Jul 26, 2012)

The problem with tougher gun laws is that the wrong people will continue to have them. Before moving to New Zealand, we were a typical family with 8 or 9 guns. We carried loaded pistols for safety when backpacking against bears. We kept loaded weapons (no kids) in our closet due to the many home invasions and murders in our city (Philadelphia) some of which were close by. I also had a stranger come on to our isolated ranch in Montana and after letting him know I was able to defend myself, should he not decide to leave. Local authorities, the sheriff was an hour away. The wrong people will always have guns and that is why citizens have the need to have them too.


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## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

They're not talking this time about abolishing all guns - just the assault weapons and the mega-clips that allow rank amateurs to fire hundreds of rounds in just a few minutes. These are the weapons being used for the suicide-terrorist type shootings, and frankly they're called "assault" weapons because they aren't useful for any type of "self-defense" much less hunting.

And I still contend that there is an underlying element of violence in the US culture. Nothing to do with the lack of a loving family or too many divorces or anything like that. Where do all the violent films, and violent video games come from? There is something in the culture that glamorizes violence, but it's pretty deeply ingrained in there and is going to take a long, long time to shift. 
Cheers,
Bev


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## twostep (Apr 3, 2008)

It does not take a semi or an automatic to be fast.


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## Cleo Shahateet (Feb 23, 2009)

I think we can all agree that people who do this are utterly deranged and probably have been for years. If not, something obviously snapped and if anyone could stop it they would. 

As for the incident in China, if guns were allowed I believe a lot of those children would have been dead not just injured. I can see both sides of this debate and understand the need for protection though. Lets all just hope we will see an end to this madness one way or another. It is heartbreaking that this is the kind of world our kids are growing up in!


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## Cleo Shahateet (Feb 23, 2009)

A good read and clarifies Autism and "Mental Illness" if anyone is interested. 

What Autism Parents Want You To Know About Autism And Violence | To The Max


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## twostep (Apr 3, 2008)

Does anyone remember the shootings in Europe?


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## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

The Norwegian ones, or the German gymnasium a few years back?
Cheers,
Bev


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## twostep (Apr 3, 2008)

Bevdeforges said:


> The Norwegian ones, or the German gymnasium a few years back?
> Cheers,
> Bev


There were a couple more recently. Then we had the crazy guy in France whose father is now suing the police not to mention the family from the UK .... We can go into Tulsa, OK, ...........


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## Cleo Shahateet (Feb 23, 2009)

Society has just become too fast paced, everyone has their noses in their computer, iphones, laptops, handheld games etc. It is easy for some people to get lost in the shuffle and not know how to connect to real people in my opinion. I have emailed and corresponded with so many people online and they are so nice then we meet in person and they have no personality or anything to say. It is like people forget how to interact except by way of texts, emails etc. There are so many things that can contribute to the how the society has changed worldwide, not just the US. 

I have researched in the past few years the effects of GMO in foods, pollution, vaccinations (our kids are loaded with them by the time they are 2), more screen time, more violence and on and one. No one can say for sure what causes these deranged people from doing these things but everything needs to be looked at worldwide. I just think gun laws and mental health issues are the first and foremost in the US.


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## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

twostep said:


> There were a couple more recently. Then we had the crazy guy in France whose father is now suing the police not to mention the family from the UK .... We can go into Tulsa, OK, ...........


Yeah, but the guy in France wasn't packing an assault rifle and mega rounds of ammo. And he was a bona fide Al Quaida trained terrorist, traveling by motor scooter, looking mostly for military types in uniform of Magrebhi or Arabic background.
Cheers,
Bev


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## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

Say, I just stumbled onto a very interesting opinion piece over on CNN about the attitudes toward guns in the US and Europe (specifically, France) and it mentions the latest shooting episodes over here: France: Where fear and taboo control guns more than laws - CNN.com

One point they kind of gloss over is that, having had a real shooting war on their territory within recent memory (at least for the older generation), Europeans tend to have a different take on violence altogether.
Cheers,
Bev


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## Cleo Shahateet (Feb 23, 2009)

Bevdeforges said:


> Yeah, but the guy in France wasn't packing an assault rifle and mega rounds of ammo. And he was a bona fide Al Quaida trained terrorist, traveling by motor scooter, looking mostly for military types in uniform of Magrebhi or Arabic background.
> Cheers,
> Bev


Ah yes, a whole other issue - the fanatics and the terrorists seeking revenge on the west!!


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## twostep (Apr 3, 2008)

Bevdeforges said:


> Yeah, but the guy in France wasn't packing an assault rifle and mega rounds of ammo. And he was a bona fide Al Quaida trained terrorist, traveling by motor scooter, looking mostly for military types in uniform of Magrebhi or Arabic background.
> Cheers,
> Bev


And he killed teacher and children in Toulouse ... 
The gun is a factor but nothing more when it comes to speed.


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## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

twostep said:


> And he killed teacher and children in Toulouse ...
> The gun is a factor but nothing more when it comes to speed.


What they reported here was that he had been out looking for military types. Couldn't find any, and "just happened" on the Jewish school as he passed through the town. Figured it made an acceptable alternative.
Cheers,
Bev


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## twostep (Apr 3, 2008)

Bevdeforges said:


> What they reported here was that he had been out looking for military types. Couldn't find any, and "just happened" on the Jewish school as he passed through the town. Figured it made an acceptable alternative.
> Cheers,
> Bev


Tell that to the relatives of the alternatives.


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## miramar2011 (Jul 7, 2010)

Sunset said:


> The guns belonged to the mother who was obviously stable enough to be given a gun license and purchase guns. She was irresponsible and careless with them and her son got access to them. He lived with her and she had to be aware of his mental state. All the more not to have guns or be more responsible in securing them.
> 
> 99% of murders (excluding self-defense) committed are committed by people who do not have a license. The problem is gun control, depending on how you look at it - should we be able to easily arm outselves, or should gun control be tightened?
> 
> The right to bear arms was not meant to be an individual right, but the right for a country to bear arms to defend itself and for government to defend citizens.


The author of this last sentence does NOT know the US Constitution


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