# refused residencia



## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

Hello. I have just been for my appointment in Torrevieja to get residencia. We had filled out all the forms and had all the documentation. We went on our own as my wife speaks Spanish. We have been refused but don't understand why.

First we are EU citizens. We have an apartment here and used to live and work here 15 years ago. We arrived at the beginning of October did the padron and placed our son in the local school.My wife registered as autononomo a month ago and has some teaching contracts. I had a teaching contract but it was only until the end of December. We have 20.000 Euros in our joint account.

We check all the information about residencia and phoned various officials to make sure things were in order. We have now been here for nearly 90 days.

The official simply said that we couldn't get residencia because we have to have work and contracts that are full term. 

I don't quite understand. I thought that if my wife was autonomo that would cover our family health care and that the money and the escritura would be sufficient to show you wouldn't be a burden on the state until you found work.

The official told us that the money was sufficient and was irrelevant. 
We are now worried that we will have to return to the UK as we will soon be here more than 90 days


----------



## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

Firstly, don't panic.

They can NOT throw you out and are unlikely to fine you.

Ask a gestor to help with the process - I know everywhere is different but I think that particular funcionario has simply got it wrong. Did you show your marriage certificate?


----------



## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

Thanks. We didn't show our marriage certificate. He seemed quite adamant about his decision saying that without a full time contract and 3 months autonomo we couldn't get residencia. I thought the autonomo for my wife would be sufficient for HER and I could show sufficient funds to support myself. ( We don't have a mortgage and have a spanish account with funds in it). He said that the autonomo has to show you have been earning money for 3 months not just paying the autonomo. Is this right.? 
I can't see much difference between our rights and non-Eu citizens.


----------



## xgarb (May 6, 2011)

Sounds like the official is making it up as they go along.

Some funcionarios like to make people come back for more appointments as it makes them look busy so they keep their job.


----------



## stevec2x (Mar 24, 2012)

That's very odd! We got residencia in Torrevieja some time ago, and the official really didn't care about income/savings despite the fact that neither of us is working (and we are not of state retirement age). It may have helped that we had a local Spanish-speaking bloke talking for us.

As xgarb said, sometimes they just make it up as they go along!

It might be worthwhile paying for someone who advertises themselves as an interpreter who also 'does' residencia for people. We have used one before and it seemed to help that he knew the officials by name, and they knew him.

btw - is your padron up-to-date (ie dated within the last 3 months)

Hope you manage to sort it out!


----------



## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

Thanks. Getting a bit worried. It is going to be hard to secure contracts teaching this late in the year, We knew this might be the case hence the reason why we relied on the funds in the bank. Is it no longer possible to show funds to secure residencia? The autonomo will be quite high soon and it seems weird that paying 250 Euros a month and having savings and property won't be sufficient for residence. We understood the official so it wasn't a problem with language that is why we didn't use a Gestor but if what you are saying is that we need a bit of "enchufa" then I guess we will have to pay someone to try and do it for us


----------



## stevec2x (Mar 24, 2012)

We got our residencia some time ago and they may have tightened up on some of the rules now.

The whole residencia thing can vary from place to place. When we went through it, the interpreter told us that they are much more strict in Playa Flamenca compared to Torrevieja. He was surprised that we both managed to get residencia and SIP card - he was convinced I would be refused if I'd had to go to Playa Flamenca


----------



## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

Steve. When did you do this? How did you manage to get the residencia without work contracts? It took about a month to get today's appointment so I guess I am going to have to try again. Didn't want to pay for a Gestor as that seemed to be more about having a translator which we don't need but if anyone can recommend someone in torrevieja who can do this please let me know


----------



## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

Another thing is: Do you have to have had autonomo for a minimun of 3 months before you can apply for residencia? I ask because now our health cover has expired and if the official is right then we don't have any cover until we have paid for 3 months. This doesn't seem to equate with the official informatiion but we can't get SIP cards until we get the residencia. It all seems very confusing


----------



## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

I think your best bet is to get another official involved, you're going to get lots of opinions on here.

Maybe it's the income he's not happy with

Not sure about your last question, why would your healthcare be stopped if you are paying autonomo?


----------



## Isobella (Oct 16, 2014)

Contact El Pais and try to get some publicity.


----------



## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

As I said, they can't kick you out so don't panic.

Try with a gestor and it will be simple!


----------



## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

Well given the problems with national corruption I don't think this really ranks as newsworthy. When I first came here you used to have to go and stand in a queue in the street outside the office in Alicante. The officials would literally be hitting people to stand in line. They were mostly poor immigrants who had nothing so I don't think the officers cared about any type of complaint. At least you get a day and a time now.

Anyway what I want to know is does my family have health care now our 3 months is up. I was under the impression that the autonomo would cover the whole family immediately you paid not that there was a 3 month waiting period.

Also does anyone know if having funds is legitimate for getting residencia or does everyone who is not a pensioner have to have contracted work? I did have a contract but it was only until the 22nd of Dec my next will probably be the same for 5 weeks at a time. My wife has contracts but she puts them through the autonomo. 


I really don't want to have to wait another 3 months as we are trying to settle here and the uncertainty is not something we want on top of Brexit


----------



## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

kaipa said:


> Well given the problems with national corruption I don't think this really ranks as newsworthy. When I first came here you used to have to go and stand in a queue in the street outside the office in Alicante. The officials would literally be hitting people to stand in line. They were mostly poor immigrants who had nothing so I don't think the officers cared about any type of complaint. At least you get a day and a time now.
> 
> Anyway what I want to know is does my family have health care now our 3 months is up. I was under the impression that the autonomo would cover the whole family immediately you paid not that there was a 3 month waiting period.
> 
> ...


You have to show funds or a contract PLUS healthcare cover in order to register.

Has your wife listed you & your son as her dependents for healthcare, when she got her SS number? Do you all have SIP cards (health cards)? If not, then you aren't covered (although children under 18 are entitled to healthcare regardless - it's sometimes difficult to persuade tptb of that fact). You will need to prove that you are related, with apostilled marriage & birth certs.

I have heard others talk about being told that there's a 3 month waiting period after registering as autómono - but unless it has changed recently that isn't correct.


I suspect that the healthcare issue might have been at the root of your problem. 20,000€ in the bank probably wouldn't be enough where I live either. I know someone who had to show 10,000€ _per person_ last summer plus private healthcare. However - they don't work here at all. 

In your case though - with your wife registered as autónomo, with marriage cert & birth cert to prove the relationship, & with you registered for healthcare as her dependant, they shouldn't refuse you.

As others have said - they can't kick you out - & Brexit is still more than 2 years away!


----------



## Chopera (Apr 22, 2013)

xgarb said:


> Sounds like the official is making it up as they go along.
> 
> Some funcionarios like to make people come back for more appointments as it makes them look busy so they keep their job.


It's almost impossible for a funcionario to lose their job


----------



## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

Problem is he didn't even look at our funds ( I can put more money in our account if need be it's just no one will say how much) Just said they were irrelevant and that my wife needed 3 months of factoras for autonomo and I needed a full time contract. I am going for a job interview tomorrow so things are possibly looking up. Do you think it counts that you have started the process of obtaining residencia in terms of 90 days etc? The gov web site says you should register not you must!


----------



## Rabbitcat (Aug 31, 2014)

I really don't get it. 

Fines are unheard of and you cannot be thrown out. 

So in our own case we will get every thing together go in and apply. 

If they say no I won't give it a second thought. 

Tried, they wanna play silly ******s good luck to them


----------



## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Rabbitcat said:


> I really don't get it.
> 
> Fines are unheard of and you cannot be thrown out.
> 
> ...


Well yes...but.... in their situation, it's in their interest to get the paperwork sorted out.

Really, it's in the interest of anyone living here in the long run.


----------



## stevec2x (Mar 24, 2012)

Kaipa - we did it about 3 years ago, and our circumstances are/were unusual.

My partner has some health problems which means that she can claim ESA from the UK. This meant that her S1 classified her as a pensioner, which meant she got automatic right to the Spanish health system (satisfying the residencia requirement for health care). However, as I say, the official wasn't terribly interested in our other finances - I don't why. It may be that our unusual circumstances (which our interpreter had to argue about for a while) meant that the official got fed up with having to think about it and simply gave in!


----------



## stevec2x (Mar 24, 2012)

btw - I should add that I got residencia purely as a result of being my partners dependent - even though we're not married. The people at DWP in Newcastle accepted me as being dependent, and so sent an S1 saying so - and that was enough for the official to accept me


----------



## xgarb (May 6, 2011)

Chopera said:


> It's almost impossible for a funcionario to lose their job


But they might get moved to another department somewhere cold!


----------



## uora (Jul 19, 2011)

xgarb said:


> But they might get moved to another department somewhere cold!


If they have not already been moved there 

I've got the impression that in Torrevieja you don't get the "padron" unless you already have the "residencia"? I think that the lack of health care is the big problem and once you've solved that, the rest will be easy


----------



## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Rabbitcat said:


> I really don't get it.
> 
> *Fines are unheard of *and you cannot be thrown out.
> 
> ...


No they aren't. The Suegra was fined for not renewing her residency (she is US citizen) within the required 5 years, largely because the whole system shuts down for the month of August so one cannot get appointments in early September unless one arranges it back in July (she didn't).


----------



## Rabbitcat (Aug 31, 2014)

How much was the fine Baldi

I have yet to hear of an EU citizen being fined for not registering


----------



## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Rabbitcat said:


> How much was the fine Baldi
> 
> I have yet to hear of an EU citizen being fined for not registering


I think it was 100€


----------



## Rabbitcat (Aug 31, 2014)

Higher than I thought to be honest

Will def make the effort to get it sorted


----------



## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Rabbitcat said:


> Higher than I thought to be honest
> 
> Will def make the effort to get it sorted


When you do go, try going with plenty of patience, good humour and an open mind. You never know, you might actually be attended by someone who knows their job, doesn't have a chip on their shoulder about foreigners and is basically a nice person
I've had my fair share of dealings with bitter, laconic, inept civil servants in my time, but for the last six or so years things have changed drastically and I haven't had a problem for ages:fingerscrossed:


----------



## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

For the OP
As your wife speaks Spanish I suggest getting information from the Spanish government site. As you have had problems I would suggest printing this out in all its glory so the officials you deal with can see that this is from the Ministry and going through it item by item so you can all see and understand what is or isn't missing.
Portal de InmigraciÃ³n Ministerio de Empleo y Seguridad Social: Certificado de registro de ciudadano de la Unión
This is the info pertinent to work
Dependiendo del supuesto:
*Si es trabajador por cuenta ajena* podrá aportar cualquiera de los siguientes documentos:
Declaración de contratación del empleador o certificado de empleo, incluyendo, al menos, los datos del nombre y dirección de la empresa, identificación fiscal y código cuenta de cotización.
Contrato de trabajo registrado en el Servicio Público de Empleo, o la comunicación de la contratación y sus condiciones a través de la plataforma [email protected]
Documento de alta o situación asimilada al alta en el régimen correspondiente de Seguridad Social o consentimiento de la comprobación de los datos en los ficheros de la Tesorería General de la Seguridad Social.
*Si es trabajador por cuenta propia* podrá aportar cualquiera de los siguientes documentos:
Inscripción en el Censo de Actividades Económicas.
Justificación de su establecimiento mediante la Inscripción en el Registro Mercantil.
Documento de alta o situación asimilada al alta en el régimen correspondiente de Seguridad Social, o consentimiento de la comprobación de los datos en los ficheros de la Tesorería General de la Seguridad Social o de la Agencia Tributaria.


----------



## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Going back to the original post, the OP says that:



> The official simply said that we couldn't get residencia because we have to have work and contracts that are full term


Is this where the problem lies? The OP keeps talking about "residencia" BUT he doesn't want residencia since they are both EU citizens, all he requires is to register on the foreigners' register for which the rules are different.


----------



## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

baldilocks said:


> Going back to the original post, the OP says that:
> 
> 
> 
> Is this where the problem lies? The OP keeps talking about "residencia" BUT he doesn't want residencia since they are both EU citizens, all he requires is to register on the foreigners' register for which the rules are different.


Sorry I say residencia because that was what it used to called when you had an actual plastic card, now it is , as you say , registering on the foreigners register but it doesn't really change anything the official obviously meant I can't register without a work contract and the funds/ savings are not considered sufficient proof that you can provide for yourself.

As for the padron. I think you get that before applying for residencia ( in Torrevieja)

The health care shouldn't have been a problem as my wife is autonomo and therefore the family should be covered by her payments


----------



## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

kaipa said:


> Sorry I say residencia because that was what it used to called when you had an actual plastic card, now it is , as you say , registering on the foreigners register but it doesn't really change anything the official obviously meant I can't register without a work contract and the funds/ savings are not considered sufficient proof that you can provide for yourself.
> 
> As for the padron. I think you get that before applying for residencia ( in Torrevieja)
> 
> The health care shouldn't have been a problem as my wife is autonomo and therefore the family should be covered by her payments


But "residencia" still exists for those who are not EU citizens.


----------



## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

baldilocks said:


> But "residencia" still exists for those who are not EU citizens.


Yes, true but he knew we were EU citizens as he had a passports and even mentioned that we were from different countries so I don't think that was the problem


----------



## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

The latest I have heard is that there is a certain degree of discretion involved in the process. 
EU pensioners can register and will receive free health care. They need to supply proof of their pension etc. Anyone who is EU but not receiving a pension will need to have private health care and proof that they can provide for themselves and family. Autonomo covers social security and health care for the individual and immediate family. Autonomo on its own is not proof of income. This means that you will need to provide 3 months of accounts showing a discretionary level of income. Static savings or home ownership doesn't seem to be accepted as proof that you can provide for yourself or family. If you have a work contract the length of the contract and the level of income will be looked at. Simply having a contract is not sufficient. So I guess there is a warning in there for UK families who are not pensioners moving here. You can be scrutinised over your income and refused on certain grounds. The fact that you might own a property and having sufficient savings no longer seems adequate. Fair enough I I suppose but I don;t think the same conditions apply for non-UK nationals from EU settling in the UK ( At least pre-brexit)


----------

