# Golden Visa



## pendejo1 (Jun 21, 2018)

Has anyone gone through the Golden Visa process for either Spain or Portugal? 

I am interested in this option as I want to limit the amount of taxes I am obligated to pay (eg less than 182 days living in said country), yet have a foothold in the country in question (in case I might want residency later).


----------



## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

1pendejo said:


> Has anyone gone through the Golden Visa process for either Spain or Portugal?
> 
> I am interested in this option as I want to limit the amount of taxes I am obligated to pay (eg less than 182 days living in said country), yet have a foothold in the country in question (in case I might want residency later).


I haven't been through the process, but I would imagie the tax office would have alarm bells ringing if someone had a resident visa but then avoided actually living here for tax purposes.

The 182/3 days isn't an absolute, in any case. Your 'centre of economic interest' is what counts in the end, & if you had gone to the lengths of securing a resident visa, especially a 'golden visa', I'm pretty certain that the tax office would consider Spain to be just that.


----------



## pendejo1 (Jun 21, 2018)

1pendejo said:


> Has anyone gone through the Golden Visa process for either Spain or Portugal?
> 
> I am interested in this option as I want to limit the amount of taxes I am obligated to pay (eg less than 182 days living in said country), yet have a foothold in the country in question (in case I might want residency later).


For the "residential visa", I totally agree with you. However, for the "golden visa", I can say with confidence you are mistaken. Thanks for the comment though!

I was in Xabia last year, at the Hotel Javia. Beautiful town and beach. Great hiking on that ridge/rock above! I was actually more attracted to Denia though. It seems like the Spaniard factor is much higher which is what I am looking for.


----------



## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

The Golden Visa IS a resident visa.
http://www.exteriores.gob.es/Consulados/SANFRANCISCO/es/ServiciosConsulares/ServiciosenSanFrancisco/Documents/ESInvestmentVisa.pdf

or http://www.exteriores.gob.es/Consul...SanFrancisco/Documents/ESEntrepreneurVisa.pdf

or http://www.exteriores.gob.es/Consul...ulares/Documents/Visados/ESRealEstateVisa.pdf





That 'ridge/rock' is our mountain Montgó. 

Yes, overall, the % of Spanish residents in Denía is higher, but if you stay away from the urbs in Jávea, you don't see many non-Spanish at all. 

Montgó does give us better weather over this side though


----------



## pendejo1 (Jun 21, 2018)

xabiachica said:


> The Golden Visa IS a resident vias.
> 
> That 'ridge/rock' is our mountain Montgó.
> 
> ...



Sorry, I wasn't clear enough (and I am no expert...thus my forum question). I believe we are talking about the "Golden Visa" and the "Non-lucrative visa", which are both routes to residency. The "non-lucrative visa" gives you a 1-year temporary residency. Then you have to apply for a 2-year residency after. I understand that the Spaniards are looking for you to have established yourself (ie 182+ days) as a taxpaying Spaniard and thus, they grant you the 2-year. With the "Golden Visa", you follow the same residency track as the "non-lucrative" route. However, the Spaniards give you a pass on being a tax-payer since you were so nice as to invest in their property market. As a reward, they extend your residency. 

I would love to talk to you separately more about your experience in Xabia. But I don't want to mix the two subject matters. I will privately send you a message.


----------



## skip o (Aug 1, 2011)

You will want to talk to a lawyer about that golden visa. There is plenty of incorrect info online, and Spain is not known for it's tax clarity. I am under the impression that Portugal designed a really easy to follow golden visa, and in Spain it was a mess and not very successful, at least at first. For example, each Spanish consulate in the US had it's own rules as to what they needed for the golden visa. I have no idea if they fixed that.

Ava Law in Barcelona handles golden visas. They aren't cheap but they aren't scammers either. I have no idea about any other law firms but I am sure there are many.


----------



## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

xabiachica said:


> That 'ridge/rock' is our mountain Montgó.
> 
> Yes, overall, the % of Spanish residents in Denía is higher, but if you stay away from the urbs in Jávea, you don't see many non-Spanish at all.
> 
> *Montgó does give us better weather over this side though *


Yes, so many people when looking for somewhere to live in a country that has geographical features (mountains, lakes, rivers, etc.) tend to overlook the micro-climate effects that those geographical features create. We have mountains/high ground on three sides so that we live in a sort of _hoya_ (bowl) and that high ground often keeps out heavy showers and storms, however, once a cloud gets into the bowl it can take several hours for it to escape. Fortunately our hoya is not also a frost-hollow nor a sun-trap/heat-trap something that one often finds with river valleys. For example: Andujar, which is 40 km North of us, is in the Guadalquivir depression and is, currently, 7° hotter than we are (34° v. our 27°)


----------



## booksurfer (Apr 21, 2018)

1pendejo said:


> With the "Golden Visa", you follow the same residency track as the "non-lucrative" route. However, the Spaniards give you a pass on being a tax-payer since you were so nice as to invest in their property market. As a reward, they extend your residency.


Yes, there's no requirement to become a fiscal tax resident in Spain, or to even live there. This doesn't obviate the 183 day rule though, if you are resident in Spain for more than 183 days in any year you become tax resident, whether you like it or not.

Brief synopsis of the rules: Golden Visa Spain


----------



## pendejo1 (Jun 21, 2018)

*Taxes & Residency*

It sounds like Madrid is the only Autonomous region that has no wealth tax. Is that true?


----------



## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

*******1 said:


> It sounds like Madrid is the only Autonomous region that has no wealth tax. Is that true?


Are you 1pendejo, or do you have a coincidentally similar name to the OP?


----------



## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

booksurfer said:


> Yes, there's no requirement to become a fiscal tax resident in Spain, or to even live there. This doesn't obviate the 183 day rule though, if you are resident in Spain for more than 183 days in any year you become tax resident, whether you like it or not.
> 
> Brief synopsis of the rules: Golden Visa Spain


183 days isn't the be-all & end-all though.

If hacienda considers you to be resident, because you have your main business here, or your main home here, then you're tax resident, even if you don't spend most of your time here.

And the onus is on you to prove that you're not, rather than on haciendo to prove that you are.


That lawyer has over-simplified the 'fiscal residency' situation. 

If you spend 500,000€ on a holiday home, which is genuinely a holiday home, then no problem.
If you invest in a business which isn't yor main business, again, no problem. 

But if it's your main home, or main business, then as far as hacienda is concerned, you'll be tax resident.


----------

