# working hours and vacation time



## Dinky (Oct 26, 2007)

Hi

Can anyone give me a rough idea as to what kind of hours someone working in IT would have to work in the US and also is it 10 days paid hol and that's it? 

Thanks - any help appreciated


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## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

In the US there is NO legally mandated paid holiday time, and no maximum work week. Any paid vacation is at the discretion of the employer, as is sick time and any other worker benefits. Legally, an employer only has to withhold for social security (i.e. pension) and state and federal income taxes. There is no obligation to offer health or life insurance or any other benefits.

In practice, most employers will give you two weeks (10 working days) a year. This may be increased to three weeks after 5 or 10 years of employment at the same company. If you change jobs, you start over with the basic two weeks unless you negotiate something special with your employer.

And the working hours situation depends entirely on the company. In Silicon Valley, fr'instance, 80 hour weeks are not at all uncommon, especially when you're working on a "hot" project. You work to get the job done, not by the clock. (With most IT workers on salary rather than hourly wages, there is no overtime pay. You may be eligible for a bonus or stock options, but these aren't necessarily related to how many hours you work.)

In some companies, there are those who brag about "never" using their vacation time. It is often seen as a true sign of the "dedicated" employee.

Admittedly, when you're in the middle of it all, it doesn't seem nearly as awful as it does written down like this.  And things vary considerably from one employer to another. It really pays to get some feel for the "culture" of any company you are considering working for.
Cheers,
Bev


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

I was doing some work for an Amercan living in Warwick UK a few years ago and he told me that when he worked in the US he got just one weeks paid holiday a year when he first started. Then as he was with the company longer they increased his holidays.

They say only 8% of americans have passports, but if those are the kind of vacation times you start off with its not suprising


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## Dinky (Oct 26, 2007)

!!!! WOW

I honestly didnt realise that vacation days arent compulsory. I always assumed that Americans didnt hold passports because its such a big country - not because they literally dont have the time to go any place else 

Was expecting working hours to be longer but again 80 hours is a bit of a shocker - am sure like you say though, differs from place to place.

Given the opportunity though - think Id still like to give living in the US a go. You only live one right?! 

Thanks so much for the info.


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

Dinky said:


> from place to place.
> 
> Given the opportunity though - think Id still like to give living in the US a go. You only live one right?!
> 
> Thanks so much for the info.



Too right .... just do your research and take your time. Dont rush into things. These forums are a valuable source of information


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## synthia (Apr 18, 2007)

Note that these will be unpaid hours. I don't think 80 is a norm, but 50 probably is, with 60 happening more often than not. Some employers have given up on the minimal vacation and offer three weeks right off the bat, but not many. One week is really low, and fairly unusual, I think. Getting to take it is another issue altogether.

Also, you may be restricted as to how much you can take at one time. I've been restricted to no more than ten days at a stretch.


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## Jackiefatenbread (Jan 24, 2008)

The accountancy firms and some other professional service firms have very generous paid holiday entitlements (30 days +), as their busiest times are concentrated in the first three months of the year. They have plenty of IT focussed jobs (back office and client facing).


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## synthia (Apr 18, 2007)

I've worked for two of the biggest accounting firms, and the generous vacation time is usually compensation for unpaid overtime. So people were offered jobs with two weeks vacation and a pretty-much guaranteed month of 'comp time', because there is really no way to get through a year without putting in 160 hours extra, and usually lots more. There were rumours about a lot of them stopping paid overtime at the entry levels, since they were about the only companies who still did that for professional staff. For IT people there is actually an exemption in the law that says, essentially, that even though you would be eligible for paid overtime in other fields, in computer work, you aren't.


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## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

Synthia, my experience is pretty much the same as yours. I'm a veteran of one of the big accountancy firms, and was married to a guy working for another one. Several years after I got out of the game, they eliminated the overtime pay for entry staff - bumped up the salaries, but the hours were still much the same and they expanded (a bit) their "overtime pool" system where you could take time off for "excessive overtime."

For an IT person to get into the OT pool, they would have to be part of the consulting staff. The back office IT folks weren't privvy to those conditions.

But maybe things have changed in the last few years. (I'm not keen to go back into public accounting to find out, though. <g>)
Cheers,
Bev


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## Jackiefatenbread (Jan 24, 2008)

synthia said:


> I've worked for two of the biggest accounting firms, and the generous vacation time is usually compensation for unpaid overtime. So people were offered jobs with two weeks vacation and a pretty-much guaranteed month of 'comp time', because there is really no way to get through a year without putting in 160 hours extra, and usually lots more. There were rumours about a lot of them stopping paid overtime at the entry levels, since they were about the only companies who still did that for professional staff. For IT people there is actually an exemption in the law that says, essentially, that even though you would be eligible for paid overtime in other fields, in computer work, you aren't.


I certainly wouldn't disagree with that. There is a lot of unpaid overtime that all professional staff (including IT professionals) have to stomach for their 30 - 35 days of holiday (in addition to around 10 public holidays).

I am however not convinced that the back office IT guys work anything like the overtime suffered by client facing professional staff. 

I also don't believe that this situation would be any different in other industries that have the standard vacation allowance, what with the American obsesion with "face time".


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## synthia (Apr 18, 2007)

Well, if you get 30 days (six weeks) vacation time to make up for the overtime, that's different. In some companies people don't even get to take the paltry two or three weeks they have earned. Also, as a friend of mine recently learned to her sorrow, if you are let go, there is no legal requirement for paying you out for unused vacation.


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## Jackiefatenbread (Jan 24, 2008)

synthia said:


> Well, if you get 30 days (six weeks) vacation time to make up for the overtime, that's different. In some companies people don't even get to take the paltry two or three weeks they have earned. Also, as a friend of mine recently learned to her sorrow, if you are let go, there is no legal requirement for paying you out for unused vacation.


There's no federal law that requires payment for unused vacation, but several states have laws to this effect, and others have laws that employers must follow their official policy regarding vacation (which still doesn't guarantee unused vacation would be paid, depending on the content of that policy and the employment agreement with the relevant employee).


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## synthia (Apr 18, 2007)

Unfortunately, my friend was in a 'no laws' state.


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