# Opening a Bar



## Mallorca Dreamer (Apr 24, 2021)

We have found the ideal premises, and we have a plan. 
Can anyone point me in the direction of resources of approximate running costs? How much does a brewry charge bar owners for beer, How much do you pay suppliers for; coke, water coffee etc, what taxes need to be paid - to the town hall. What licenses are needed.? 
I know its not great now due to Covid, so we are going to wait until later in the year or even next year. - so please no replies about that
We speak English, Spanish, have TIEs (been here 18 years). We will open all year with both tourist and local trade.

Any guidance or help would be greatly appreciated

TIA


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

If you speak Spanish go straight to the horses mouth and look up information on relevant Spanish sites. Failing that go to a bar and ask them where you can find all the information.


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

Mallorca Dreamer said:


> We have found the ideal premises, and we have a plan.
> Can anyone point me in the direction of resources of approximate running costs? How much does a brewry charge bar owners for beer, How much do you pay suppliers for; coke, water coffee etc, what taxes need to be paid - to the town hall. What licenses are needed.?
> I know its not great now due to Covid, so we are going to wait until later in the year or even next year. - so please no replies about that
> We speak English, Spanish, have TIEs (been here 18 years). We will open all year with both tourist and local trade.
> ...


As the other poster stated as Spanish speakers you should simply contact authorities for licences etc. Phone suppliers and arrange a meeting with sales reps.supply costs often depend on buying power. I'm not sure you'll get any approx costs on a forum and niether would I actually believe them, especially if a business depends on it

Edited if on Mallorca, as your name suggests , due to island let cation etc costs may also be very different to mainland..


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## tebo53 (Sep 18, 2014)

Mallorca Dreamer said:


> We have found the ideal premises, and we have a plan.
> Can anyone point me in the direction of resources of approximate running costs? How much does a brewry charge bar owners for beer, How much do you pay suppliers for; coke, water coffee etc, what taxes need to be paid - to the town hall. What licenses are needed.?
> I know its not great now due to Covid, so we are going to wait until later in the year or even next year. - so please no replies about that
> We speak English, Spanish, have TIEs (been here 18 years). We will open all year with both tourist and local trade.
> ...


Do you really want to set up your future livelihood on figures quoted by people on an internet forum?
Beggars belief!

Steve


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## Isobella (Oct 16, 2014)

Those buy a bar in Spain websites give lots of examples, perhaps double their figures for outgoings etc


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## Isobella (Oct 16, 2014)

If you have lived there a long time perhaps you have noticed how often most bars change owners, some close after one season. Most thought they had a good plan too.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Each region has different regulations and economic variables, so you really do need to get information that is specific to the Balearics. I doubt there's anyone on this forum who can help you with that, but wish you the best of luck!


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## xicoalc (Apr 20, 2010)

As others have said, there are so many variables in setting up any type of business that will make it hard to find accurate information on a forum. Speaking Spanish is a clear advantage as you will be able to talk to the town hall about licenses and opening costs as well as the tax authorities and so on. Like Megsmum said,direct cost of sales will depend on buying power. A buy with a capacity of 100 will be buying a lot more stock than one with 3 tables and so will get their own rates. Breweries employ sales people who do deals.. there may be incentives for longer term commitment. They often do favourable deals in terms of help with kitting out to create their brand awareness too but there are so many variables.

You will be paying rent (presumably), light, water, heating and cooling in the summer, initial opening taxes and costs as well as ongoing autonomo payments. I have not had involvement in the bar industry for well over a decade but in some areas income taxes used to be allowed either through traditional calculations or based on capacity and a fixed monthly payment. I am not sure if this was all areas or if it even still exists any more. You will need fumigation contracts, hygeine certificates (depends on if you sell food etc) and the list goes on and on but depends on the local authorities and although i know mallorca fairly well, I don´t know the regulations over there. Also there are vast differences and challenges in taking over an established bar and starting form scratch.

You say you have a plan and perhaps you do have a plan of intention but what you must fundamentally do is prepare a business plan, do market research and competitor research and ensure that all of the numbers stack up. Bars are the sector with the highest turnover of new owners so please do your sums carefully. Remember that, depending on the area of Mallorca, the predominant market is German, not British so german speaking staff will come in very useful.

Sorry I cannot give you specifics but as everyone said, a forum can give you advice on most things, and the members here have a wealth of experience but direct costing analisys of a potential business ventuire based on "how much is beer?" is something that you need to do in terms of local research and planning.


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## ksjazzguitar (Dec 22, 2010)

Yeah, you should be talking to either a lawyer of some kind of local specialist, a business analyst... not a bunch of anonymous expats. A little investment now will make a big difference in the future. I would also look for blogs, etc. of people that have actually done this.

And I would heed the concerns some have expressed - starting any business is a risk. Starting a restaurant or a bar is _always_ a humongous risk. Do _a lot_ of research. And have some though to what your life would look like if this fails. Maybe with hard work and some luck, you'll be one of the ones that succeeds, but it's still a gamble.


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## Isobella (Oct 16, 2014)

Or a Counsellor, just joking.


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## xicoalc (Apr 20, 2010)

Isobella said:


> Or a Counsellor, just joking.


Jaja. Not far off. My work had always been marketing and various areas of business growth and in my early days in spain, I worked autónomo on a consulting basis and sadly, most of my clients (or should i say, potential clients because most were struggling so much that they couldn't afford the fees) were people who have bought a bar or restaurant and landed eye balls in debt. Its not a tough business but arguably one of the toughest with a majority or dreams becoming nightmares. 

High overheads, low client volumes, inhumane hours because funds dont allow for adequate staff to cover very long days... Etc. 

At least the OP has lived here many years so has, hopefully, their head screwed on. But alarm bells are well and truly ringing when someone says they have a "plan" then go on a forum to ask thr wholesale cost of beer, something that anyone who speaks Spanish can find out directly by organising meetings to obtain proposals from wholesalers and suppliers and frankly should be completely knowledgeable about before even thinking of making a plan!


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

xicoalc said:


> Jaja. Not far off. My work had always been marketing and various areas of business growth and in my early days in spain, I worked autónomo on a consulting basis and sadly, most of my clients (or should i say, potential clients because most were struggling so much that they couldn't afford the fees) were people who have bought a bar or restaurant and landed eye balls in debt. Its not a tough business but arguably one of the toughest with a majority or dreams becoming nightmares.
> 
> High overheads, low client volumes, inhumane hours because funds dont allow for adequate staff to cover very long days... Etc.
> 
> At least the OP has lived here many years so has, hopefully, their head screwed on. But alarm bells are well and truly ringing when someone says they have a "plan" then go on a forum to ask thr wholesale cost of beer, something that anyone who speaks Spanish can find out directly by organising meetings to obtain proposals from wholesalers and suppliers and frankly should be completely knowledgeable about before even thinking of making a plan!


Hopefully no to spend more time together as a family...which seems to be the catchphrase on all those move to the sun programs.


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## Nomoss (Nov 25, 2016)

We lived in Mallorca for over 20 years. Although we left there 20 years ago I doubt that the bar business there has changed much - apart from the effects of Covid, which has probably resulted in a lot of premises available for sale or rent at bargain prices.

We knew a fair number of people running bars, but only one who made any real money out of it.

He would buy a lease on a failed bar, as near as possible to a popular hotel, rename it, and run it with his family, usually using his favourite theme - "The Welsh Bar", which was written across the main window.

He would first build up a strong "breakfast trade" on the basis that morning customers tended to return in the afternoon and evening. He was a good talker, and quite successful in this.

He would have frequent "happy hours", especially when prospective buyers were due.

He sold most bars within less than 2 years, and that was when he made his money


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## xicoalc (Apr 20, 2010)

Nomoss said:


> We lived in Mallorca for over 20 years. Although we left there 20 years ago I doubt that the bar business there has changed much - apart from the effects of Covid, which has probably resulted in a lot of premises available for sale or rent at bargain prices.
> 
> We knew a fair number of people running bars, but only one who made any real money out of it.
> 
> ...


And I imagine for each one, he and his family worked incredibly hard long hours. This is a good strategy but only a few make it. Often a "brand" always has followers so each one that it opened is easier to get customers (especially when they realise which one has the "original" team). There will also be the ones who are famous, who have built a following over the years and who always make money. But, as you said, there are a lot (I would say the majority) who don´t last long.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

This came up on my FB








We were living a dream in Benidorm...now we have 20 euros left and use foodbanks


MUM-of-three Lindsey Evers never imagined her Benidorm expat dream would end with her family relying on food bank handouts. The waitress and her chef partner Peter Chadwick have seen their livelih…




www.thesun.co.uk







> EXPAT HELL *We were living a dream in Benidorm…now we have 20 euros left and use foodbanks*
> MUM-of-three Lindsey Evers never imagined her Benidorm expat dream would end with her family relying on food bank handouts.
> The waitress and her chef partner Peter Chadwick have seen their livelihoods destroyed as the pandemic left the once-bustling Spanish resort a ghost town.


I checked out the food bank






Войдите на Facebook


Войдите на Facebook, чтобы общаться с друзьями, родственниками и знакомыми.




www.facebook.com


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## xicoalc (Apr 20, 2010)

xabiaxica said:


> This came up on my FB
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This is very sad. Coronavirus has left a lot of victims, not just the sick but economically too. 

Being devils advocate though, articles like this do beg a question as to why so many are struggling quite at this level. The ERTE scheme in Spain has allowed employers to reduce the jornada of staff by a percentage up to 100% with those affected receiving 70% of their salary (or the % of hours not worked) up to a maximum of 1100 euros. If a business has gone bust then there is the ERE and of course paro which would be payable to anyone whk has worked long enough. The erte of course was not contribution based so anyone on a contract, even for just a day could benefit. 

So anyone who is claiming to have lived and paid their taxes in spain for many years and who is employed would have been entitled to government help of up to 1100 euros per person. So a couple would get up to 2200 euros. This mat be a cut for many but would be sufficient to live, especially considering landlords have been obliged to help those who cannot pay rent, or at least not been allowed to evict anyone, banks have had to offer help to those with mortgages and even other types of loans.

Obviously everyones situation is different and any cut in income is a problem for most. But with so many struggling so much, i fear a part of the factoring info is a reflection of how many work fullly in the black or work on minimum hours contracts and make thr rest up in black money!


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

Read the article the other day
Basically another Express anti-Spain piece they have recently gotten into. I agree that if you were legal, paying taxes etc as the couple claim they should have ERTEs. If it was cash in hand then they should know that that is illegal and it's not Spain's fault per se.


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## Isobella (Oct 16, 2014)

kaipa said:


> Read the article the other day
> Basically another Express anti-Spain piece they have recently gotten into. I agree that if you were legal, paying taxes etc as the couple claim they should have ERTEs. If it was cash in hand then they should know that that is illegal and it's not Spain's fault per se.


The link was from the Sun.


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## xicoalc (Apr 20, 2010)

Isobella said:


> The link was from the Sun.


Hahaha. That makes it so much better


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