# American-French couple: how to come live in France?



## thalia_lea

Hello everyone!

My name is Léa, I'm a French woman living in Paris, and I desperately need some of your advices... 
Here is my situation.

I met my boyfriend in Europe months ago: he is American, specifically he is living in California. We fell madly in love and wish to live together in Paris for a year, a year and a half (then I would move to the US with him). 

The first problem we encountered was about visas: which one to apply to? My boyfriend doesn't have any diploma (he just started university, for now he is following his classes online) and he will need to work on French territory when he will live in Paris (he doesn't have a lot of money). We thought about a volunteering visa (but we don't know if he would be able to have a work permit with it) or even freelancer visa (but without diplomas or previous freelance activity, it's hard to defend). And of course, we are seriously thinking about getting married (we would marry under the regime of full separation of property). But with that last option comes other problems.

Indeed, you have to know that my boyfriend is still registered as being part of his father's tax declaration in California, and we cannot find on the internet whether getting married would impact that or not (i.e. "forcing" him to have his own tax declaration). Also, he is currently in community college in California to be able to get some reduced prices on the university he wants to study after (as the Californian resident, you can pay less). We also saw that even when you work abroad, you still have to pay American taxes on your salary (meaning even working in France, he would still pay some taxes to California).

So here is our main question: would being married to me + working in France would 1/ impact his father's tax declaration and 2/ impact the fact of being considered or not as Californian resident (because he would pay Californian taxes, and he wouldn't live in France for a long period of time)? We both don't want our relationship to not allow him to go to the college he wants.

Thanks a lot for reading me and for your advices! Don't hesitate to tell me if I haven't been clear on some points.
Have a great day.

Léa


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## 255

@thalia_lea -- I see two options to the French visa situation. 1) Since he is still in school, he could consider taking a "semester abroad." This is very common for U.S. students. Most colleges have an office that handles these programs for partner schools. Alternatively, he could do a search on "Campus France," Étudiant | Campus France Studying in France , to do a search for a program that meets his needs. Two of my three children did this, both taking foreign language immersion courses, that were accepted at their U.S. colleges (foreign language is typically a graduation requirement for U.S. universities.) While on a student visa, your boyfriend can work "half-time." He might even want to consider completing his university studies in France (tuition would be infinitely cheaper than schools in the U.S. (even state schools.) Additionally, if he completes a two-year Masters' program, in France, and gets a job (or starts a company,) in his field, he'd be eligible to apply for French citizenship, after two years.

2) The other option you mentioned was marriage. Yes, this can facilitate an easier visa path (assuming you can prove co-habitation for a couple of years') however, I would caution against this after knowing each other for such a short time while maintaining a long distance relationship.

As to your boyfriend's father's U.S. tax declaration. He can claim his son as a "dependent," a long as he is providing over half of his living expenses. If your boyfriend gets a job and "weans himself from the teat," he would file his own tax return and his father could no longer claim him as a dependent. If your boyfriend moves to France for school and his father is still footing the bills, his father could still claim him and he would of course maintain his CA residency. In fact, if he leaves the U.S. from California, CA would consider that he maintains his "domicile" in CA and would still be liable for CA income taxes. In order to get out of this situation, many expats move to a no tax state, that has a reciprocal driver's license exchange with France (like Florida,) before they make the big move to France. Cheers, 255


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## Bevdeforges

Hi and welcome to the forum. As far as your questions are concerned, it's hard to give definitive answers without knowing more details - that probably would be unwise to divulge here on the open forum.

As far as the visa is concerned. Being as he is in community college in the US, that means that his first year of community college is generally only considered equivalent to the "Terminale" year of lycée - i.e. pre-bac. Once he has his first year of community college successfully completed, he could try applying to a French university (though it would depend on his level of French) to complete whatever degree he is seeking. He should refer to the Campus France website Home Page | Campus France USA for more information about majors, schools, costs, visas, etc.

As 255 said, as a student he can work only a fixed number of hours (roughly half time - though it can't interfere with his classes so many students work full time during school vacations and over the summer to maximize their hours and pay).

How this will affect his father's tax returns depends on things like his age and the level of support his father is providing for him (has to be more than 50%). If he works while in France, he would have to file US income taxes as well - but indicate on his tax forms that he is already being taken as a dependent on his father's returns, which normally means he would not be able to claim certain deductions or benefits (because those belong to his father). The good news, however, is that he probably would not actually have to pay US taxes on his earned income from France (due to the Foreign Earned Income Exclusion). California, however, is a "peculiar" state for state taxes, and if he is trying to maintain his California residency, I believe they will not recognize the FEIE for state tax purposes. (That may have changed in recent years - he should check the California tax authority on that.)

Getting married too soon is probably not a great idea. It may be possible for his father to continue to claim him as a dependent, but once again, he needs to check the California laws on this. Once you get married, he can change his visa to a spouse visa (actually, vie privée et familiale) but he'll be required to go through the whole OFII routine to have a medical appointment, take the "classes" and complete and fulfill the requirements of the "contrat d'integration." As the spouse of a French national, he'll be able to work full time - but finding a job in France for someone with no completed qualifications is difficult enough. Then, there is his level of French that may be an issue for some employers.

Honestly, you will probably do better to deal with a long-distance relationship until he finishes his university training - if only for the ability to maintain his California residency. 255's idea about his going for a "semester abroad" could be a real good one - though it only gives him half a year in France, but without all the uncertainties about his own and his father's taxes and issues with him trying to find work in France. (Nice excuse for you, too, to make a few visits over to see him and who knows, maybe you'll ultimately decide to settle in France for the longer term - something that would be much easier once you are married and he has finished his university training.)


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## Chrissippus

US Federal income tax is based on citizenship. So, we are liable for it no matter where we live, but subject to exclusions such as the FEIE. State tax is based on residence, technically "tax domicile," not citizenship. So, if he moves definitively to France he should carefully examine the California tax domicile regulations and take care to eliminate most or all of them in order to escape the California state income tax. California is known to be among the most aggressive states in claiming taxes from those who have moved away. They do this based on behavior that implies an "intent to return," such as voting from abroad, for example. He doesn't have to move to another US state with no income tax before moving to France, but he does have to be careful to uncheck all the boxes that the CA tax authorities will examine to determine whether he has an "intent to return." I don't know how his dependency on his father would figure into the tax domicile issue, but it could be a problem.

Here's some advice on how CA residents can escape CA taxes:






How To Change Your Domicile And Avoid An Ugly CA Residency Audit


Learn how to change your domicile from California to Nevada or another state without an ugly Residency Audit by the California Franchise Tax Board (FTB).




www.halversontax.com


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## Bevdeforges

The only issue here is that he does intend to return after a year or year and a half, according to the OP. Something about wanting to keep an advantage on tuition at a California state university. If he does return to California to attend university, they'll catch up with him then.

That said, when I moved overseas from California, I had no problems - largely because I sold my California house and re-established myself in Europe. OK, there was a little problem over the sale of the house - taxation of the gain based on the timing of the sale - but that was resolved on a NonResident basis several years later (when I had, indeed, not returned to the US). Just as a note, the California Taxpayer Advocate was extremely helpful.


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## Chrissippus

I am thinking that after he has spent a year and a half in France with his French wife he may reconsider his plan to return to CA.


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## Bevdeforges

Chrissippus said:


> I am thinking that after he has spent a year and a half in France with his French wife he may reconsider his plan to return to CA.


Perhaps, but having the "intention" to return to CA even if only to complete his education at a state school means the state will continue to consider him "theirs."


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## RayRay

Thalia

If your boyfriend's community college is associated with the University of California, he can take advantage of UC's Education Abroad program. The program is based at UC Santa Barbara and that campus handles all students going abroad to study for all of the University of California's campuses. 

The big difference about UC's program is that rather than spending a semester abroad and getting only elective credits (NOT credits towards one's primary field of study), the UC program is for 1 - 2 years and one gets credits towards one's major area of study. 

At one time, it was also a good deal less expensive to take one to two years abroad than to attend the University of California, yet one would still get one's degree from UC. 

Best of luck.

Ray


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## thalia_lea

Hello to everyone !

First I want to thank you a lot for all your answers - all very very helpful 😊
(sorry I respond just now, I was working like crazy last week)

_1. About the marriage option_
Indeed you are all right, after considering what you said I realize it's much more difficult that i thought it would be (not that i though it was going to be super easy but i did think it was the easiest solution).

_2. About the studying abroad option_
Unfortunately we checked, in his community college (Folsom Lake), no possibility is offered in France  but @RayRay we are definitely going to check the UC Santa Barbara, thanks!!

_3. About the French uni option_
After having checked Campus France, we discovered that no L1 (first year of uni) was available for non-French speakers (they ask for a B2 level in French). Even if he takes classes, with the application deadlines he wouldnt be able to come study here before 2024 which is kinda "too late"... 
So just to confirm this fact, @255 did your children talk French when they came to study in France?



255 said:


> Two of my three children did this, both taking foreign language immersion courses, that were accepted at their U.S. colleges (foreign language is typically a graduation requirement for U.S. universities.)


The option we have in mind now is being an au pair. As he is having his courses online, we think it could be a good option for him: not having to pay rent, having some professional experience (and a bit of pocket money), and still being able to follow his courses when the children are in school. Does it seem like a good idea to you guys? 

*About the taxes & being considered as a californian resident*


Bevdeforges said:


> How this will affect his father's tax returns depends on things like his age and the level of support his father is providing for him (has to be more than 50%). If he works while in France, he would have to file US income taxes as well - but indicate on his tax forms that he is already being taken as a dependent on his father's returns, which normally means he would not be able to claim certain deductions or benefits (because those belong to his father). The good news, however, is that he probably would not actually have to pay US taxes on his earned income from France (due to the Foreign Earned Income Exclusion). California, however, is a "peculiar" state for state taxes, and if he is trying to maintain his California residency, I believe they will not recognize the FEIE for state tax purposes. (That may have changed in recent years - he should check the California tax authority on that.)


Okay that's very much more clear thank you !!  do you think in case of an au pair situation, considering that his father would indeed provide for him, it would work in terms of being considered as californian resident? I kinda count on the fact that if he doesnt pay taxes in France, California wouldn't "know" he's abroad...




Chrissippus said:


> I am thinking that after he has spent a year and a half in France with his French wife he may reconsider his plan to return to CA.


Hahaha thanks!! Yes at the end we would still like to come back to France, but as @Bevdeforges said he has to go to Berkeley first 😁

Once again thank you to each of you for having taken the time to help and guide us 💛


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## 255

@thalia_lea -- In answer to your questions: 1) My eldest daughter did her study abroad in Italy, arranged through her university study abroad office. It was an Italian "immersion" program and no she did not speak any Italian before she left. My son did the same from his university (a different school in a different state.) Additionally, he studied Spanish in Costa Rica (when he wasn't surfing.) He had taken Spanish in high school and community college. Just an aside, the foreign language requirement is for a Bachelors' degree and both programs satified their foriegn language requirements. For the most part community colleges issue Associate degrees' here in the States. Both my daughters completed Associate degrees' at a State community college before matriculating to university. Our state had a guaranteed admissions option being a state resident with a stated GPA for admission to the States 4 year schools from community college, at the time. Our son only attended community college for 1 year before transferring to a full university. Attending community college is also significantly cheaper. If The University of California, Berkley is his target school, I'd check and make sure they'd "accept" any outside programs he attempts. By they way, my youngest daughter had a "full ride" scholarship to Berkley and turned it down after she did her school tours, her last year of community college. It just didn't fit her (I did have a good friend that dropped out of my school after two years to finish his degree at Berkley.) That daughter did her Masters' in Europe (the UK, Italy, Spain and Portugal.) She spoke Spanish (and of course English) fluently and she spoke intermediate French when she left. When she returned, she was also fluent in Portuguese and maintains an intermediate proficiency in Italian. She is somewhat gifted in languages, unlike my other two (and myself) that struggle. She takes after my wife in that regard. My wife speaks English, French, German and Spanish.

2) I do know a couple of my daughter's friends that went the au pair route, although they were both females. I do think most host families prefer women au pairs. I do remember decades ago that my favorite "baby sitter" was a male. This could definitely be a good route. He could also check out schools in France, as an alternative to Berkley, while he's there.

He should also check the "transfer" requirements for any school he considers (including Berkley.) We thought for years that my youngest daughter would matriculate to Berkley, until her last semester at community college. That was also a hit to the pocket book, as I said before she had a full ride to Berkley but scholarships at her "chosen" school were already disbursed.

3) Don't worry about California "maintaining" him as a resident. CA is one of a couple of states that make it hard to leave. If he is an au pair and files his U.S. and CA income taxes (even if his father "claims" him as a dependent,) he'll be OK. The U.S. has citizenship based taxation, so he'll need to file, even if he lives in France. As a safety precaution, he can file even if he doesn't meet the income limits, just to reflect his intent to remain a CA resident (even if his "tax due" is 0.) He may also need to file French income taxes.

4) He should sit in on a few classes at Berkley. On my daughters trip there, the classes she "sat in on" were all taught by Chinese TAs, that did not have a good grasp of spoken English. That was one of the two reasons she didn't go to her then "dream" school. She also had heard many bad things about the man who was to be her coach. I told her if all she was told was true, he wouldn't last; which came to pass. He was replaced before the next school year. France also has some great schools (for a fraction of the cost.) He could also do what my daughter did, get his Bachelors' from Berkley, then matriculate at a French school for his Masters'. My daughter having a Masters' from a European university helped set her apart for job opportunities. 

If he is intent on staying in the U.S. for three more years, you might want to consider moving to the U.S. yourself. Stints as a student or an au pair are relatively easy options, in the States to consider too. Cheers, 255


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## Bevdeforges

thalia_lea said:


> The option we have in mind now is being an au pair.


I would be very careful going with this option. Check the regulations here for au pairs - I believe he will be required to take French classes as part of the standard au pair contract, which will definitely cut into his online class time. Also be careful about the precise range of duties he will have as an au pair. Some families expect quite a bit more out of their au pairs than the regulations require (in terms of the time and nature of household "chores" expected). Again this affects his available time for his online classes - and time he will have available to get together with you. We've had a number of au pairs through the forum here who have been "disappointed" with their placement and are trying to change families in the middle of their stay here.

There is also a question about his tax status as a "dependent" of his father's, given that he will be receiving food and shelter from the host family, as well as "spending money." To be considered a tax dependent, he must receive at least one-half of his support from his father which may be difficult to prove. I would check, too, to see how the US IRS considers the "spending money" an au pair receives from the host family - whether it's income or some other category of payment. But in any case, it's exceedingly rare that the French Fisc and the US IRS compare individual tax files.

PS - I would second 255's suggestion that you consider joining him in the US for a couple years (ideally as a student). But one big caveat: France and the EU have pretty strict regulations concerning the category of "au pair" and for an au pair visa, you must file a standard au pair contract with the French government - with protections regarding hours "worked" and the kind of work the host family can ask of you. In the US the term "au pair" is completely unregulated. In many cases, the host family can treat you like a bargain basement nanny and expect you to do most of the housework in addition to time spent tending to the children. There is also no regulation regarding working hours or time/days off. Your one "protection" is going through an agency that stands up for its au pairs when there are issues to be resolved.


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## Chrissippus

Thalia_Lea,

If there is a significant chance that you two will indeed decide to live in France then returning to California would seem like a waste of time and money, especially money.. A Berkeley degree is not going to be especially useful in France. Why not have him move to France and bite the bullet now by buckling down to get his French up to B2 in a year or two at which point he can go and get a good French degree? That might make the most sense to the degree that you think a future in France may be likely. 

UC Berkeley costs, irrespective of living costs, run $9,327.50 per year. So, a four-year degree would set him back $40,000, which may require him to take on significant debt depending on the extent of parental support. If the two of you were to take on US dollar debt and then move to France where the salaries will be less, it might prove to be a painful burden.






Fee Schedule - Office of the Registrar


Some or all instruction for all or part of the Academic Year may be delivered remotely. Tuition and fees have been set regardless of the method of instruction




registrar.berkeley.edu


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