# Quality of life in Barcelona



## ReBlaise (Feb 15, 2021)

Hi There,

I would like to find out a few things about quality of life in Barceloa because I will shortly accept a job offer and plan to move from the UK with my wife and 2 children, aged 6 & 9.

We're likely to move to one of the nearby towns Sant Cuga, Alella, Stages etc where the air is cleaner and it's less noisy than the city centre

Firstly, do you think we can live comfortably on a 60k euro salary? If by comfortable I mean both kids attending local concertada, eating out once every 2 weeks, owning a small car and renting a 3 bed home? We're quite frugal otherwise

Secondly, is there a way to find lists of state and concertada schools by town? For example all schools in Sant Cugat or Alella?

Thirdly, I read a thread quite critical of Sitges because of vulgar tourists i.e. used condoms lying around, people dogging. Is this a big problem in the area or just restricted to the club/bar part of the town, or not a real issue at all?

Any other advice, encouragement or warnings I should be aware of for my family, please let me know.

Many thanks


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

You might like to check out the political situation so you are a bit up to date with the mood of the region after last nights election


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## expat16 (Jun 11, 2016)

Here's a tax calculator so that you can get an estimate of your net income: Calculadora de IRPF

I'd say that it could be a bit tight (especially if concertada a school you have to pay for?)...but I say this from a Barcelona center perspective, perhaps housing will be cheaper in the areas you are looking at (although my understanding is that Sant Cugat is expensive). 

Everything seems to have increased this year: electric, gas. Rents have decreased though.


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

I'm not sure if Barcelona is that much more expensive than Madrid, but we have lived in Madrid with two kids on a 60k family income.
I have to say though, that at that level of income I would not be considering a concertado when a public education can be easily as good academically speaking.


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## timwip (Feb 27, 2017)

The language of instruction at public and concertado schools in Catalunya is in Catalán. While there is nothing wrong with that language, wouldn´t you prefer your children to learn a more common foreign language like Spanish?


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## Chopera (Apr 22, 2013)

For finding public/concertado schools you could try this:






Mapa escolar de Catalunya







mapaescolar.gencat.cat





It appears to be the Catalan government's search tool, so it should have everything. However finding which schools actually have places available for both kids might be more problematic.

Concertado schools don't normally charge very high fees, so it shouldn't be an issue.
For €60k a year I would try to budget on paying around €1000/month rent. You could check on idealista to see what that gets you in various areas.
Also I've heard that motorway toll fees can be very high around Barcelona. If you choose to live outside Barcelona and commute in you might end up taking quite a hit each day. At least that's what I heard several years ago, but they might have improved the situation for local residents.


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## Pauletthp (Oct 26, 2020)

You may want to check out Sabadel. You will have to do short train ride but fantastic family atmosphere and cost effective


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## conildlf (Jun 13, 2020)

Alella is a beautiful place with a great organic winery.


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## Joey Testa (Jan 5, 2021)

Sant Cugat and Sitges are both more expensive than Barcelona. Don´t know about Alella. 60k is a good household income for Spain but am not sure how expensive concertada schools are. Also, if you are not Roman Catholic, are your children allowed to attend these schools?


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

Joey Testa said:


> Sant Cugat and Sitges are both more expensive than Barcelona. Don´t know about Alella. 60k is a good household income for Spain but am not sure how expensive concertada schools are. Also, if you are not Roman Catholic, are your children allowed to attend these schools?


Sure, they'll take anyone's money, regardless if their indoctrination works or not.


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## timwip (Feb 27, 2017)

Overandout said:


> Sure, they'll take anyone's money, regardless if their indoctrination works or not.


I have two nieces in a concertada. By law they need to take anyone regardless of religion. Furthermore, religion is an optional class by law. As a result, there is no indoctrination.


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

timwip said:


> I have two nieces in a concertada. By law they need to take anyone regardless of religion. Furthermore, religion is an optional class by law. As a result, there is no indoctrination.


We looked into sending our kids to a Concertada near us.

We went to see the school and meet the head. We knocked on the door of the office we were directed to and a shrill female voice called out in an agrivated tone "who is that knocking in such a manner on my door?!", we slowly and warily opened the door and the head of the school (dressed similarly, but seemingly unofficially as a nun) saw that we were parents, not pupils, and smiled and beckoned us in in a dramatic change of tone. On the wall behind her was a large, 2m high crucifix with the crown of thorns, blood on the forehead full on christian iconography. 

That is indoctrination without having even looked at the teaching or classes.

Yes, they do have to accept non-catholics by law, but there's acceptance and there's being made to feel accepted.

We turned around and walked out.


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## Joey Testa (Jan 5, 2021)

"On the wall behind her was a large, 2m high crucifix with the crown of thorns, blood on the forehead full on christian iconography. "

In a Catholic school what did you expect? There will be references to Roman Catholic doctrine in all classes. If you are not Catholic I can´t see your kids being accepted in such a school regardless of what the law says.


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## timwip (Feb 27, 2017)

Overandout said:


> We looked into sending our kids to a Concertada near us.





Joey Testa said:


> "On the wall behind her was a large, 2m high crucifix with the crown of thorns, blood on the forehead full on christian iconography. "
> 
> In a Catholic school what did you expect? There will be references to Roman Catholic doctrine in all classes. If you are not Catholic I can´t see your kids being accepted in such a school regardless of what the law says.


As full disclosure, I am a Roman Catholic. In the Catholic school my children went to in the United States, 30% of the student body were non-Catholics. The biggest subcategory were Muslims.


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

Yes you have to be realistic about these schools. Although they adhere to the general policies they are not secular like state schools. In state schools there is an emphasis on equality of beliefs. For example, my JW students dont participate ( if they dont want in Christmas classes). Nowadays we try and strip the religious concepts from most of the festivals. In concertadas I doubt this would be allowed or tolerated.


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

Joey Testa said:


> "On the wall behind her was a large, 2m high crucifix with the crown of thorns, blood on the forehead full on christian iconography. "
> 
> In a Catholic school what did you expect? There will be references to Roman Catholic doctrine in all classes. If you are not Catholic I can´t see your kids being accepted in such a school regardless of what the law says.


 I expected exactly what I experienced, but it was still quite shocking.

I was actually posting to refute timwip's assertion that no religion class by law means no indoctrination.


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## timwip (Feb 27, 2017)

Overandout said:


> I expected exactly what I experienced, but it was still quite shocking.
> 
> I was actually posting to refute timwip's assertion that no religion class by law means no indoctrination.


The word indoctrination is a very subjective word. Apparently, you believe the presence of an icon is indoctrination. I do not. The streets all over the world are full of nationalistic, religious and cultural icons. How do you go about protecting your children from indoctrination through the presence of icons.?


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

No, I didn't say that the presence of an icon on its own is indoctrination. That I do not believe and it wasn't may intention.

What I think is that I cannot trust an institution run by a person who outwardly displays her beliefes and behaviour of a particular doctine in her manners, dress, and decoration to not indoctrinate.

But as Joey said, it was what I expected and I am in no way obliged to send my kids to these institutions and I don't.

But, we actually went to visit that Concertado because a (Catholic) acquiantance told us that that particular school was nowhere near as religious at it used to be and that nowadays it was pretty much secular. compared to the other concertados nearby.... well that was their perception, and each person's pereception, as you say is different, both of what indoctrination is and of what secularism is.


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## Joey Testa (Jan 5, 2021)

timwip said:


> As full disclosure, I am a Roman Catholic. In the Catholic school my children went to in the United States, 30% of the student body were non-Catholics. The biggest subcategory were Muslims.


That has nothing to do with the situation in Spain. No Muslims are allowed in concertada schools, which is one of their big selling points for many parents.


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## timwip (Feb 27, 2017)

Joey Testa said:


> That has nothing to do with the situation in Spain. No Muslims are allowed in concertada schools, which is one of their big selling points for many parents.


I did not realize that muslims were not allowed in concertada schools. Muslims pay taxes like everyone else and taxpayer money goes to concertada schools.


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## Joey Testa (Jan 5, 2021)

timwip said:


> I did not realize that muslims were not allowed in concertada schools. Muslims pay taxes like everyone else and taxpayer money goes to concertada schools.


Yes, that shows you what a priveliged position the Catholic Church has in Spain. You will find very few politicians who have themselves attended or send their own children to public schools.


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## kalohi (May 6, 2012)

Joey Testa said:


> That has nothing to do with the situation in Spain. No Muslims are allowed in concertada schools, which is one of their big selling points for many parents.


I'm not sure where you got this information. But I can assure you that around here children are admitted to concertado school on the basis of a lottery, and their religion does not factor in.


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## Joey Testa (Jan 5, 2021)

kalohi said:


> I'm not sure where you got this information. But I can assure you that around here children are admitted to concertado school on the basis of a lottery, and their religion does not factor in.


Officially religion is not a factor but how many children from poor familes actually "win" this lottery? How many Muslims are in the school? The fees themselves act as a way of eliminating the less well off and most Muslims in Spain live in low income households. Concertada schools may admit a couple of token black Christian students but that is as far as diversity goes.
Sure there will be some students from better off latino families which allows them to say that they do admit immigrants.
But without paying at least lip service to roman catholic faith there is no chance of getting your kid into one of these schools.

The law in Catalonia allows parents to have their children educated in Spanish but this requirement is ignored in practice. All concertada schools teach only in Catalan.

By the way, how many Muslims live in Sevilla? Very few compared to other large Spanish cities.


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