# Retired military moving to Guanajuato



## derek.larson

I'm in the exploratory-phase of a move to Mexico, but first let me give you some background information:

- Retired military in mid-40s
- Wife, of 25 years, has a Permanent Resident Card from US (orginially from Torreon, MX)
- Sole custody of two granddaughters (4 & 2 years old, US citizens)
- Enjoy hiking & long distance running
- Have visited Torreon, on numerous occasions, as well as Monterrey, San Luis Potosi, Guanajuato, San Miguel de Allende and Zacatecas
- Looking at moving to Guanajuato, but may be interested in other areas 

A few things I need to figure out, and questions for the forum:

- *Private Schools. *I assume the four of us can live off my retirement income in a modest home, but since we're caring for our granddaughters, I will need to find a way to earn some additional dollars to afford private schooling. From what I've gathered, private schools will cost roughly $150-300 per child, depending on school/location. Does anyone have any information on private schools in GTO?

- *Car registration. *Since my wife is a citizen of Mexico, can she register our car in Mexico? Would this be a wise decision? I'm not completely sold on leaving a car behind in the US at this point. I'm guessing it'll be difficult to find a home in GTO with secure parking, or parking in general. In Georgia, there's an annual Ad Valorem tax that I'd like to finally be rid of.

- *Heathcare for military retirees and their dependants.* If there are any veterans on this site and can provide healthcare information as it pertains to Tricare, please let me know what to expect. I'm sure I can find that information on my health insurers site, but thought I'd ask it here.

I'm interested to learn more and hopefully make some contacts in the Guanajuato-area and elsewhere. I appreciate any feedback you can provide. 

Derek


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## chicois8

Guanajuato always made me feel like there were two populations living there, the college students and the senior citizens who's children went off to Mexico City to work......IMHO


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## TundraGreen

derek.larson said:


> *Car registration. *Since my wife is a citizen of Mexico, can she register our car in Mexico? Would this be a wise decision? I'm not completely sold on leaving a car behind in the US at this point. I'm guessing it'll be difficult to find a home in GTO with secure parking, or parking in general. In Georgia, there's an annual Ad Valorem tax that I'd like to finally be rid of.


The fact that your wife is Mexican doesn't change the fact that you would have to import your car into Mexico to register it here. This can be expensive and may not be possible depending on the make. You could get a temporary import permit (TIP) for your car tied to your immigration status if you are here on a tourist visa or a Temporary Residence visa. Once you change to a Permanent Resident visa, you would not be allowed to have a non-Mexican vehicle.

I am a veteran, but not retired military. I was drafted, spent a year in Vietnam then moved on. I haven't used the VA medical system so can't help you there.


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## stanburn

i love Guanajuato. Young hip feel to it and lots of cultural events.

I am retired military and haven't filed a claim in a couple of years, but the few times I have Tricare paid without any problems. You will pay out of pocket and then submit a claim to be reimbursed. I currently deal with United Healthcare West. I don't know who the contractor is for your area.

I would sell your vehicle. In my opinion foreign plated vehicles aren't worth the trouble and right now you can't nationalize anything. 

Stan


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## derek.larson

Thanks for the tips. We're a 2-car family getting ready to scale down to 1 in a few days. For most Americans, it's an impossible task to live without a car. I see not having a car as a health benefit more than anything. 

Our move is going to happen anywhere from a few months to two years from now. Between now and then, I need to brush up on my Spanish and get rid of lots of junk. I also need to find a way to make a few extra pesos after I leave my job here. Having been in the service for so many years, then working for the federal government as a contractor for the last four, I've become institutionalized and need to learn how to earn a little extra on my own. 

Derek


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## TundraGreen

derek.larson said:


> Thanks for the tips. We're a 2-car family getting ready to scale down to 1 in a few days. For most Americans, it's an impossible task to live without a car. I see not having a car as a health benefit more than anything.
> 
> Our move is going to happen anywhere from a few months to two years from now. Between now and then, I need to brush up on my Spanish and get rid of lots of junk. I also need to find a way to make a few extra pesos after I leave my job here. Having been in the service for so many years, then working for the federal government as a contractor for the last four, I've become institutionalized and need to learn how to earn a little extra on my own.
> 
> Derek


Living without a car in Mexico is a lot easier than in the US. There is good bus service everywhere, both local and long distance. The long distance buses are luxurious and comfortable (unlike the US). All of the buses run frequently. And there is cheap taxi service in the cities. In addition, if you choose where to live carefully, you can walk to a mercado for most of your grocery shopping and routine needs.


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## mes1952

Living without a car might be possible in many parts of Mexico but not in all areas. Definitely not in Baja unless you are in a larger(er) city such as La Paz or Cabo or Tijuana. So it depends primarily on the size of the city and population.


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## Waller52

derek.larson said:


> - *Car registration. *Since my wife is a citizen of Mexico, can she register our car in Mexico? Derek


I am going through the process of examining what car (brand, model, etc) to bring in on a 180 day Visitor Permit (FMM) with my concerns being the availability of parts, decent mechanics, etc. I have chosen to sell my Ferrari, for instance. 

You get my drift, si?


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## TundraGreen

Waller52 said:


> I am going through the process of examining what car (brand, model, etc) to bring in on a 180 day Visitor Permit (FMM) with my concerns being the availability of parts, decent mechanics, etc. I have chosen to sell my Ferrari, for instance.
> 
> You get my drift, si?


Does that mean you are keeping the Maserati?


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## chicois8

Waller52 said:


> I am going through the process of examining what car (brand, model, etc) to bring in on a 180 day Visitor Permit (FMM) with my concerns being the availability of parts, decent mechanics, etc. I have chosen to sell my Ferrari, for instance.
> 
> You get my drift, si?



That's funny you write about Ferraris, last year I was driving east by the Leon airport and 7 or 8 were going the opposite way all in a line .........in the fast lane.........


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## derek.larson

I'm not completely sold on Guanajuato, by the way. It just happens to be at the top of the list of places I've already been to. Of the others:

-SMA is absolutely gorgeous, but too touristy.
-If I could afford San Pedro Garza-Garcia, I might like it, but then I would be around all of the stuck-ups. Cheap flight to Atlanta though (daughter and mother reside there). I love the mountains around Monterrey, despite the smog. It's a bit warm there for me though.
-I don't remember much about Zacatecas, except it was cold in July when we passed through there 20 years ago. I like the climate, which is kind of like the mountainous areas of Afghansitan.
-I wouldn't want to live in my wife's hometown of Torreon. We'll visit more often than we do now, but daily visits by family members who may need something could become a nuisance.

I would like to learn more about Puebla, Cuernavaca, and other cities/towns around these locations, and how they compare to Guanajuato. 

I'll leave the Ferrari in the US.


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## jlms

Puebla and Cuernavaca may be a bit too busy, specially Cuernavaca which is where Mexico City's people escape the smog every weekend.

Puebla has gorgeous neighbourhoods and it being bigger than other towns will have more of the amenities you will need for your family, it may be easier to earn a few extra pesos there, no question about it, and people are used to foreigners due to several foreign backed industries (VolksWagen is a big employer) and foreign students, so you won't attract as much attention as in other places.

Monterrey is too hot for my liking, when it is 40 degrees the heat can literally punch you in the face when you leave a building.

Zacatecas is a very nice town, it would be worth checking it, I don't know how much it has been affected by the country's violence, it would be worth checking the news, but I have not read much about it, so that normally means it is better than places like Sinaloa, Chihuahua or dreadful Guerrero.

Torreon is not a very nice town, with all due respect to your wife


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## derek.larson

Great summary! 

A niece had good things to say about Puebla as well. The only issue is the long drive, or bus ride, to Torreon. Another benefit of Puebla is the proximity to an airport with cheap fares back to the states, which we would do at least once a year. 

Zacatecas is appealing for the climate and it's not quite as busy as some of the other locations. Being relatively close to Torreon is a plus. 

Derek


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## citlali

Zacatecas is famous for it beauty and cold weather in the winter..


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## Isla Verde

citlali said:


> Zacatecas is famous for it beauty and cold weather in the winter..


Agreed! And very steep, hilly streets.


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## mm79

> I will need to find a way to earn some additional dollars


It is very tough to get a work permit in Mexico without an employer lined up to sponsor you. You can open your own business, especially if you will hire Mexican help. It is easy to do freelance work online too.


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## derek.larson

Freelancing work online is what I had in mind to pursue. I presently administer a few websites and have a creative background, so I have most of the skills to get started. Thank you.


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## derek.larson

*Looing for some good advice, and maybe some bad advice, too.*

Update: My wife and I have been feverishly downsizing all of our worldly belongings so that everything can fit snuggly in our Kia Sorrento for the drive to Mexico. We've been in contact with a family we stayed with in Guanajuato last Chritmas, who said that we'd be welcome to stay in their home until we find a place of our own (it's huge). Our grandchildren are the same age as their kids, and are looking forward to the reunion.

The questions...

My wife has a sister in Kerrville, Texas. Would it be a good idea for us to use her Texas address as a homebase, if approved, so that I can register my car in Texas and use it for retirement income purposes (no state income tax, unlike Georgia)? 

I know a few folks have recommended ditching the car in the US entirely, but I still have payments to make over-and-above what the vehicle would sell for. With that bit of info, would you still ditch the car? I'm not quite in the position to throw around a few thousand dollars here-or-there. 

I can't wait for this journey to get started, and in many ways it already has.

Derek


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## RVGRINGO

You cannot use the car for income generation in Mexico. You must have a work visa endorsement in order to work in Mexico. That has solvency requirements, as you probably know, and may be applied for at the nearest Mexican Consulate in your home country.
I see no problem using a family member‘s mailing address for mail, etc., but it will eventually be impossible to renew your licenses/registration there, as they now require multiple proofs of residence.
In any case, when your four years on Residente Temporal visas are finished, you will no longer be able to keep that vehicle in Mexico as you become Residente Permanente visa holders, which does include authoirization to work, with simple notification to INM. You may not work on a tourist permit (FMM).


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## derek.larson

I think I should take a trip to Atlanta in the near future and visit the Mexican Consulate. I see conflicting reports on temporary residence requirements/fees as they relate to US citizens married to Mexican nationals (my wife has a Green Card). 

The people who we'll be staying with temporarily in Guanajuato are US citizens who travel back-and-forth to Texas less than every 180 days to renew their visas. It seems to work for them, but maybe not for my situation. After looking at the Texas DMV site, it seems fairly simple to get a vehicle from another state registered, along with a new drivers license, so long as I can show certain forms of identification with a Texas address. 

Is there some kind of a table, or spreadsheet, that shows the advantages or disadvantages of one status vs. another?


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## RVGRINGO

As the spouse of a citizen, you have a shorter route to Residente Permanente and even Nationalization, so the life of your US car in Mexico is significantly shortened. There is also the problem of being sure that your wife always has a copy of the marriage certificate to prove she is eligible to drive the car in Mexico without you beside her. Nationals may not drive foreign plated cars unless immediate family and can prove it. I would sell it, and get a car in Mexico to save that and a pile of other hassles.


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## derek.larson

Thank you.


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## derek.larson

*Potential complication*

Potential complication: My wife and I have sole/full custody of our two granddaughters who are coming with us to Mexico. Will we need to adopt in order to obtain temporary/permanent residency status to avoid the 180-day visa renewal process?


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## RVGRINGO

You should discuss that with the Mexican Consulate to determine if they may obtain visas, as you will all need them. Adoption would probably solve the problem, but may not be necessary.


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## derek.larson

RVGRINGO said:


> You should discuss that with the Mexican Consulate to determine if they may obtain visas, as you will all need them. Adoption would probably solve the problem, but may not be necessary.


Yes, that's what I am doing Monday morning. Thank you.


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## xolo

Hi Derek, I take it your wife is a Mexican citizen. I believe you can become a Mexican citizen in just a couple of years and also can get permission to work pretty easily, although other people on this forum are more knowledgeable than myself. I can't remember if you even need to meet income requirements to get a residency visa. (If visa is the right word). As you and others have mentioned, be real careful to have all the necessary paperwork in order for your grand children.


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## derek.larson

más chueco que la fayuca said:


> Hi Derek, I take it your wife is a Mexican citizen. I believe you can become a Mexican citizen in just a couple of years and also can get permission to work pretty easily, although other people on this forum are more knowledgeable than myself. I can't remember if you even need to meet income requirements to get a residency visa. (If visa is the right word). As you and others have mentioned, be real careful to have all the necessary paperwork in order for your grand children.


Yes, my wife is mexican. I anticipate having to visit a lawyer this week to get the adoption process started. The company I currently work for reimburses a portion of the fees. I need to get hot on this before I resign, I suppose.


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## ojosazules11

Let us know what the response is at the Consulate. Given the fact that you and your wife are both legal guardians and grandparents to the children, I think that it's likely they will be given residency, as well. Even more so given Mexico's commitment to family unity. However when I read through the Ley de Migración http://www.diputados.gob.mx/LeyesBiblio/pdf/LMigra_301014.pdf, i can't find any reference to grandchildren. Children, stepchildren, parents, spouses, common-law partners and underage siblings are included under Vínculos Familiares (Family Ties) provisions, but not grandchildren specifically.

On pg 2 of the legislation - in the section where the guiding, overarching principles of the legislation are listed - it does state "Family unity and the best interests of the child or adolescent, as an important criterion for foreigners entering and staying in Mexico with temporary or permanent residence, along with labour needs and humanitarian causes, given that family unity is a key element for establishing a healthy, productive social fabric among communities of foreigners in the country.":

_Unidad familiar e interés superior de la niña, niño y adolescente, como criterio prioritario de internación y estancia de extranjeros para la residencia temporal o permanente en México, junto con las necesidades laborales y las causas humanitarias, en tanto que la unidad familiar es un elemento sustantivo para la conformación de un sano y productivo tejido social de las comunidades de extranjeros en el país. _

I also wondered if they might be eligible for citizenship based on their grandmother being native-born Mexican, but couldn't find that anywhere, either. Looks like only parents can pass on citizenship to children born outside of Mexico, not grandparents. It will be very interesting to find out what the Consulate says about your case. I would be surprised if the children were not included with your residency, but then, I've been surprised before. Please let us know how it turns out.

¡Buena suerte!


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## derek.larson

ojosazules11 said:


> Let us know what the response is at the Consulate. Given the fact that you and your wife are both legal guardians and grandparents to the children, I think that it's likely they will be given residency, as well. Even more so given Mexico's commitment to family unity. However when I read through the Ley de Migración http://www.diputados.gob.mx/LeyesBiblio/pdf/LMigra_301014.pdf, i can't find any reference to grandchildren. Children, stepchildren, parents, spouses, common-law partners and underage siblings are included under Vínculos Familiares (Family Ties) provisions, but not grandchildren specifically.
> 
> On pg 2 of the legislation - in the section where the guiding, overarching principles of the legislation are listed - it does state "Family unity and the best interests of the child or adolescent, as an important criterion for foreigners entering and staying in Mexico with temporary or permanent residence, along with labour needs and humanitarian causes, given that family unity is a key element for establishing a healthy, productive social fabric among communities of foreigners in the country.":
> 
> Unidad familiar e interés superior de la niña, niño y adolescente, como criterio prioritario de internación y estancia de extranjeros para la residencia temporal o permanente en México, junto con las necesidades laborales y las causas humanitarias, en tanto que la unidad familiar es un elemento sustantivo para la conformación de un sano y productivo tejido social de las comunidades de extranjeros en el país.
> 
> I also wondered if they might be eligible for citizenship based on their grandmother being native-born Mexican, but couldn't find that anywhere, either. Looks like only parents can pass on citizenship to children born outside of Mexico, not grandparents. It will be very interesting to find out what the Consulate says about your case. I would be surprised if the children were not included with your residency, but then, I've been surprised before. Please let us know how it turns out.
> 
> ¡Buena suerte!


I spoke to a lady from the Consulate over the phone and she gave me a similar answer. She asked me to bring along the custody paperwork when I see her on Monday. Thanks!


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## derek.larson

Update: I went to the Mexican Consulate in Atlanta on July 20th and asked about temporary/permanent residency requirements for our two granddaughters we have custody of. Not knowing the answer, the lady who assisted me promised to provide me with an e-mail answer within 10 days. Anticipating future heartaches, we decided last week to proceed with adoption, which should be complete by October.

Now, this brings up another question: *Since our US-born granddaughters will have their Mexican grandmother listed as their mother on their birth certificates, what would their status be for immigration purposes to Mexico? *I suppose, one could omit the grandmother portion of the question and just consider the status pertaining to US-born children with a Mexican parent and a US parent.


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## RVGRINGO

The children would be eligible for Mexican passports if their “mother“ is a citizen. However, I don‘t know how adoption might change that, as well as the generational skip. Ask at the consulate, as they are SRE and should be able to get a definitive answer for you.


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## derek.larson

Gracias. On another note, I've been Mexico "YouTubing" lately, and didn't realize how green southeastern San Luis Potosi is, and with so many magnificent waterfalls. Just 5-6 hours from Guanajuato, too. I'm a bit of an explorer.


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## coondawg

Sadly, if you explore on your own and come across something you shouldn't see, you may not get a chance to explore further. Caution is really advised, as Mexico has changed for the worse in many ways from what it was even 10 years ago. With gangs, kidnappings, extortion, etc., you will need to learn a completely new set of security measures to protect you and your family here.


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## derek.larson

coondawg said:


> Sadly, if you explore on your own and come across something you shouldn't see, you may not get a chance to explore further. Caution is really advised, as Mexico has changed for the worse in many ways from what it was even 10 years ago. With gangs, kidnappings, extortion, etc., you will need to learn a completely new set of security measures to protect you and your family here.


Yes. I saw the changes for the first time while driving through Laredo about 8 years ago. I remembered the days when there was a policeman at nearly every intersection, controlling traffic or just maintaining a presense. On that day driving through Laredo, we saw none. The only "law enforcement" we came across was a HMMWV (Hummer) with 4 Army soldiers in full combat gear, locked and loaded, guarding the vehicle permit building. It was eerie. 
In Torreon last Christmas, I saw several pickups filled with armed men, who didn't appear to have police/military uniforms. 
Times are a-changing for sure.


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## TundraGreen

coondawg said:


> Sadly, if you explore on your own and come across something you shouldn't see, you may not get a chance to explore further. Caution is really advised, as Mexico has changed for the worse in many ways from what it was even 10 years ago. With gangs, kidnappings, extortion, etc., you will need to learn a completely new set of security measures to protect you and your family here.


While I think there is some truth to all of the cautions about danger in Mexico, I refuse to live my life in fear. I have done and continue to do most all of the things that people frequently warn against. I have driven at night. I have driven on non-cuota roads. I have driven on small rural roads. I have hiked and hitch-hiked in rural areas in Chiapas, Jalisco, Chihuahua, Baja Sur and Michoacan. I have camped in the woods in lots of places including the Golden Triangle of Sinaloa, Chihuahua and Durango. I understand that there is some risk. How large it is I am not sure. But I am 70 years old. My kids are grown and not dependent on me. I prefer to spend the time I have left doing what I want and not worrying about what might go wrong. There are worse ways to die. An aunt of mine died after years in a nursing home with Alzheimer's. I would prefer a bullet from a cartel or a fall off a cliff any day of the week.

Incidentally, I have had close calls in the past. I once fell through ice while hiking alone. I once miscalculated water in the desert and nearly died of dehydration also while hiking alone. I survived a helicopter crash in the mountains in the winter. And I spent a year in sandbag bunkers in Vietnam. Maybe that is what gives me a sense that life is fragile and needs to be enjoyed while it lasts. 
:behindsofa:


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## ojosazules11

TundraGreen said:


> While I think there is some truth to all of the cautions about danger in Mexico, I refuse to live my life in fear. I have done and continue to do most all of the things that people frequently warn against. I have driven at night. I have driven on non-cuota roads. I have driven on small rural roads. I have hiked and hitch-hiked in rural areas in Chiapas, Jalisco, Chihuahua, Baja Sur and Michoacan. I have camped in the woods in lots of places including the Golden Triangle of Sinaloa, Chihuahua and Durango. I understand that there is some risk. How large it is I am not sure. But I am 70 years old. My kids are grown and not dependent on me. I prefer to spend the time I have left doing what I want and not worrying about what might go wrong. There are worse ways to die. An aunt of mine died after years in a nursing home with Alzheimer's. I would prefer a bullet from a cartel or a fall off a cliff any day of the week.
> 
> Incidentally, I have had close calls in the past. I once fell through ice while hiking alone. I once miscalculated water in the desert and nearly died of dehydration also while hiking alone. I survived a helicopter crash in the mountains in the winter. And I spent a year in sandbag bunkers in Vietnam. Maybe that is what gives me a sense that life is fragile and needs to be enjoyed while it lasts.
> :behindsofa:


It sounds like La Catrina hasn't been quite ready to dance with you yet, in spite of multiple opportunities.


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## chicois8

TundraGreen said:


> While I think there is some truth to all of the cautions about danger in Mexico, I refuse to live my life in fear. I have done and continue to do most all of the things that people frequently warn against. I have driven at night. I have driven on non-cuota roads. I have driven on small rural roads. I have hiked and hitch-hiked in rural areas in Chiapas, Jalisco, Chihuahua, Baja Sur and Michoacan. I have camped in the woods in lots of places including the Golden Triangle of Sinaloa, Chihuahua and Durango. I understand that there is some risk. How large it is I am not sure. But I am 70 years old. My kids are grown and not dependent on me. I prefer to spend the time I have left doing what I want and not worrying about what might go wrong. There are worse ways to die. An aunt of mine died after years in a nursing home with Alzheimer's. I would prefer a bullet from a cartel or a fall off a cliff any day of the week.
> 
> Incidentally, I have had close calls in the past. I once fell through ice while hiking alone. I once miscalculated water in the desert and nearly died of dehydration also while hiking alone. I survived a helicopter crash in the mountains in the winter. And I spent a year in sandbag bunkers in Vietnam. Maybe that is what gives me a sense that life is fragile and needs to be enjoyed while it lasts.
> :behindsofa:



Hey TG,you could write your own survivor/ reality show...LOL


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## coondawg

TundraGreen said:


> While I think there is some truth to all of the cautions about danger in Mexico, I refuse to live my life in fear. I have done and continue to do most all of the things that people frequently warn against.
> :behindsofa:


Again, you seem to put your own "spin" on my posts of caution to new people. Are you telling them that you guarantee they can do as they please and they will be as fortunate as you? I think you do some people a disservice by playing the "fear factor card", which was NEVER suggested in any of my posts. You take precautions, but never seem to tell the people the complete truth about that, and sadly there are naïve people coming to Mexico, and people asking for help on this Forum. I think you owe it to them to be completely honest and realistic about what happens in Mexico, and that this is not Kansas. This OP is knowledgeable about Mexico and seems to be aware of various situations, so I feel good about his taking precautions. BTW, he has 2 small children that will depend on him and that is more reason to not make "light" of taking precautions. I do not see how stating what you have done in your time in Mexico is of any real benefit to new people, as a lot of it happened many years ago, before things deteriorated. From someone who is a frequent poster here, I expect more quality and honesty.


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## TundraGreen

coondawg said:


> Again, you seem to put your own "spin" on my posts of caution to new people. Are you telling them that you guarantee they can do as they please and they will be as fortunate as you? I think you do some people a disservice by playing the "fear factor card", which was NEVER suggested in any of my posts. You take precautions, but never seem to tell the people the complete truth about that, and sadly there are naïve people coming to Mexico, and people asking for help on this Forum. I think you owe it to them to be completely honest and realistic about what happens in Mexico, and that this is not Kansas. This OP is knowledgeable about Mexico and seems to be aware of various situations, so I feel good about his taking precautions. BTW, he has 2 small children that will depend on him and that is more reason to not make "light" of taking precautions. I do not see how stating what you have done in your time in Mexico is of any real benefit to new people, as a lot of it happened many years ago, before things deteriorated. From someone who is a frequent poster here, I expect more quality and honesty.


I wasn't aiming my comments at anyone in particular, just at the general sense I get from many that Mexico is a scary place. If it is that scary, why are all these expats still here. And, incidentally, the recounting of activities does not refer to years ago. I haven't lived here all that long. My last hiking, hitchhiking trip to the state of Chihuahua was a little over a month ago. My last camping trip was in April, but admittedly it was pretty tame. It was a pilgrimage with thousands of people around.


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## coondawg

TG, you are the only person using terms like "scary" and "fear". Look around and read posts CAREFULLY. The expats are still here because they have learned to adapt and take needed precautions. Those that listened to you and didn't, have left long ago.  I am just asking you to be straight up and honest to new people that may be coming from small town USA, where we can leave our keys in our car over night, windows open in the house at night, house unlocked when we go to the store or shopping, lawnmower out in the yard at night, etc. Neighbors look out for neighbors and will call the police if they see anything unusual happening in the neighborhood. Many people that come to Mexico have lived in similar situations NOB, and Mexico is not like that. You know that, yet you ALWAYS fail to tell these new people the precautions you take, as if people all have a lot of "common sense". You assume a lot. Rarely will any new people live the lifestyle you live here, so your experiences are not typical of many extranjeros here.


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## derek.larson

TundraGreen said:


> I wasn't aiming my comments at anyone in particular, just at the general sense I get from many that Mexico is a scary place. If it is that scary, why are all these expats still here. And, incidentally, the recounting of activities does not refer to years ago. I haven't lived here all that long. My last hiking, hitchhiking trip to the state of Chihuahua was a little over a month ago. My last camping trip was in April, but admittedly it was pretty tame. It was a pilgrimage with thousands of people around.


Will, 

I'd like to know more about hiking in Mexico. In the last few months, I have transitioned from marathon running to long distance hiking as a preferred form of exercise. Next May, I'll travel NOTB to participate in the Bob Marshall Wilderness Open in Montana and will need to do a bit of walking/paddling in Mexico to prepare for the event. I read your resume. Please feel free to send me a personal message.

Derek


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## coondawg

There are some people in Guanajuato that are hikers and evidently there are some good hills, etc that they hike in. There is a Guanajuato Board where you can find that information. Good luck.


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## derek.larson

coondawg said:


> There are some people in Guanajuato that are hikers and evidently there are some good hills, etc that they hike in. There is a Guanajuato Board where you can find that information. Good luck.


Thanks. I may have climbed all those hills in Guanajuato last Christmas. I have been looking at satellite images for a offroad route to San Miguel de Allende from Guanajuato, but there appear to be several open-pit mines in between the cities.


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## 2ndtime

*Feedback on My Budget Please*

Hello, First post in this thread from 2ndtime 
>
I am asking for some feedback on my budget from those LIVING IN GUANAJUATO or know about it.
>
I lived In Guadalajara from 1985 to 1990. Thinking about retiring to a "Spring-Time" Climate city. I still speak a very respectable Spanish. 
>
Below is my NOW net per month USD budget ( I think in dollars for now) to live. 
I will walk the neighborhoods and find my own apartment in a 100% Spanish speaking area. 
>
QUESTION: In today’s market, is it possible to rent long term simple, clean 1 (maybe 2) bedroom apartment (furnished /amueblado) (Not Gated) in an “OK” area (I am very comfortable in my ‘presence’ and my Spanish), with the BELOW following budget (USD ). ......And if possible, let me know which categories are over and under budgeted.... 
>
RENT 450/475 -Most Important on This One
Electric and Gas	75
Food At Home 300
Water 40
Internet (Fastest)	85
Direct TV 50
Cell Phones 50
Entertainment 100
USA Mail Frwrd 40
Toileties / Meds 15
Public Transp 75
Misc 75
Total 1355
International Medical Insurance is already paid for 
>
(Entertainment is dining out 2-4 times a week at an everyday local restaurant and enjoying live music and movies any nights of the week I want.
>
Muchas Gracias


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## coondawg

There is a Guanajuato Forum that has many members that live there that will be of more benefit to answer your questions. I sent you a PM. Good hunting.


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## derek.larson

Updates with questions: In the past 2 weeks, I went from owning 3 cars to just 1. I'm still in debate-mode as to whether or not I should buy a car in Mexico and sell that vehicle at some point in the states. The big hold-up is completing the adoption of our granddaughters, with the hearing set for late October. The plan is still to move to Guanajuato, but a few things may alter that course. Things on my mind:

-THE DOG. I have an older border collie, but not quite "that old" to consider euthanasia, IN MY OPINION, but not the opinion of everyone with a vote in the manner. Tobie has a habit of destroying things. He scratches (destroys) doors and/or anything to get my attention whenever he wants to come indoors or enter another room. Tobie also pees when he gets nervous, which could be several times during a thunderstorm. So, I'm semi-considering a temporary residence in the country somewhere. He's my dog. He can never be anyone else's. What are typical landlord stipulations regarding pets?

-OTHER PLACES. I've been watching lots of Mexico videos lately, and soaking up as much as I can surfing the web. The flavor of the month is the HUASTECA POTOSINA. I've driven through SLP before, but never the green part with a seemingly endless flow of turquoise-colored rivers and waterfalls. I could live there...if it wasn't so hot. I have located a few nearby cities and towns that need a bit more research and might be on the edge of my temperature range (i.e. Jalpan de Serra, Pinal de Amoles...Bernal?). Heck, Guanajuato's not really that far for a semi-annual trip to the area for hiking/kayaking. I've also learned about the "Pueblos Magicos" and having travelled through some of the cities before I don't quite agree with a few of the chosen towns on the list. I was surprised to see Guanajuato as one of the top 5 cheapest cities to live in Mexico: Las 5 ciudades más caras y más baratas para vivir en México | El Economista

-THE SCHOOL YEAR AND PUBLIC VS. PRIVATE EDUCATION. Guanajuato posted the school calendar on the state government FB page, and I see that it's quite a long school year (24 AUG-15 JUL). Good. With our oldest granddaughter in pre-k at the moment, I've been looking at educational options in Mexico for when we arrive later this year. I suppose, like in the US, there are good and bad public schools, just like there are good and bad students (or parents), and the quality of education can depend on the faculty, town, city or area. There seem to be a lot of current and former teachers in this forum, can anyone weigh-in on the topic of sending a child to a public vs. private school in Mexico?

-WILDLIFE. OK, I'll admit it. I'm addicted to nature. Not just beautiful scenery, but the critters that roam around too. Land without wildlife is a dead, barren, pile of earth preparing to be excavated. Where can I find "it" in Mexico? I'd love to somehow do volunteer work with an organization that serves to protect native wildlife species in Mexico.


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## coondawg

Hi Derek ! I think Guanajuato will be less expensive than many places in Mexico. It is the State Capital, so remember that the seat of government is there.

Public vs. Private education. My background allows me to comment on this. Private education is rather expensive; sometimes, very. However, I would NEVER consider putting any of my children or relatives from NOB into the public schools in Mexico. They are all really bad, and also do not teach English, which you will want for your children. Many teachers are poorly trained (if trained at all), and the reason the school year is soooo long, is because there are LOTS of holidays.


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## derek.larson

My understanding is private schooling in Guanajuato will run in the $150-range monthly. While not high, it's a good % of my new adjusted gross income. If the schools are that bad, I will gladly pay the additional expense.

Thank you.


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## Meritorious-MasoMenos

derek.larson said:


> My understanding is private schooling in Guanajuato will run in the $150-range monthly. While not high, it's a good % of my new adjusted gross income. If the schools are that bad, I will gladly pay the additional expense.
> 
> Thank you.


I once had children of school age in Mexico. I discovered that there are "private schools" and "private schools." That is, just because a school is private in Mexico, it doesn't reflect on the quality of education. You have to investigate and talk to parents.

As others have said, learning not only to speak English, but read it and write it, would be important if you want your grand daughters to be able to get educated internationally. In my search in Mexico City, I did find that some private schools that called themselves bilingual were nothing of the sort.

I would up going to the American School in Mexico City, which has, or had, 50% of classes in English and 50% in Spanish, with many American trained teachers. The students speak Spanish 100% of the time outside the English classes, my daughter told me, so that if English is spoken at home, they do get a good grounding, including modismos we old fogeys have no idea what they mean, in both languages.


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## Isla Verde

Meritorious-MasoMenos said:


> I would up going to the American School in Mexico City, which has, or had, 50% of classes in English and 50% in Spanish, with many American trained teachers. The students speak Spanish 100% of the time outside the English classes, my daughter told me, so that if English is spoken at home, they do get a good grounding, including modismos we old fogeys have no idea what they mean, in both languages.


As I understand it, having had a friend who has taught there for several years, that tuition at the American School Foundation in Mexico City is very high.


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## coondawg

Meritorious-MasoMenos said:


> I once had children of school age in Mexico. I discovered that there are "private schools" and "private schools." That is, just because a school is private in Mexico, it doesn't reflect on the quality of education. You have to investigate and talk to parents.
> 
> As others have said, learning not only to speak English, but read it and write it, would be important if you want your grand daughters to be able to get educated internationally. In my search in Mexico City, I did find that some private schools that called themselves bilingual were nothing of the sort.
> 
> I would up going to the American School in Mexico City, which has, or had, 50% of classes in English and 50% in Spanish, with many American trained teachers. The students speak Spanish 100% of the time outside the English classes, my daughter told me, so that if English is spoken at home, they do get a good grounding, including modismos we old fogeys have no idea what they mean, in both languages.


Excellent post ! 

Derek, be sure you get "bang" for you peso or USD, as you don't want to skimp on their education. Check out the teachers, curriculum, and talk with parents. The school needs to be a LOT like the American School. The cost could be over $300 USD per month each, if it offers what you need for your girls. Sadly, Mexico's public education is a mess.


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## coondawg

Isla Verde said:


> As I understand it, having had a friend who has taught there for several years, that tuition at the American School Foundation in Mexico City is very high.


I'm sure you are correct. However, the question becomes "are there other schools" that offer the same quality for a smaller fee? If not, then the decision comes down to how important is the education of your children? Life is full of choices and when you accept responsibility for the lives and education of others, does that include giving them the chance to have the best life and future that they can have, or not? Each person that accepts that responsibility has to answer that for themselves.


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## maesonna

My kids were educated in public schools from Grade 7 up. Even their private school up to Grade 6 was one of “those” private schools – the English teacher didn’t know much about English, although the rest of the teaching was quite acceptable. It was some time ago, but the tuition we paid back then, adjusted for inflation and exchange would be equivalent to about USD $130/month today.

Nevertheless, I never worried about my kids’ English because we are a family of readers, and they got lots of exposure to English – spoken and written – at home. Today they are all university graduates, and in spite of having all their education in Spanish, they tell me they still prefer reading in English.


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## derek.larson

I thank you all for replying to my question concerning private vs. public education. Looking at my wife's immediate and extended family, I can see major differences, intellectually, between those who have attended private schools in Mexico and those who have not. There are also differences between their parents, which may explain just as much. One of my concerns in raising the girls is that I want them to learn to treat everyone "equally" unlike how many in the upper class of mexican society do, which isn't much different than Columbus, Georgia, I suppose. 

Anyway...how 'bout that Donald Trump guy?


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## lagoloo

derek.larson said:


> I thank you all for replying to my question concerning private vs. public education. Looking at my wife's immediate and extended family, I can see major differences, intellectually, between those who have attended private schools in Mexico and those who have not. There are also differences between their parents, which may explain just as much. One of my concerns in raising the girls is that I want them to learn to treat everyone "equally" unlike how many in the upper class of mexican society do, which isn't much different than Columbus, Georgia, I suppose.
> 
> Anyway...how 'bout that Donald Trump guy?


The parents are the ones to instill values in the children, as in teaching them to treat everyone equally. If that is what you believe, they'll learn that automatically.

At the same time, I think it's best to see that they receive the best education you can find and afford. It's a shame that the public schools in Mexico aren't better.
Good luck.

Now, about that Trumpeter: I'd like to think he's a three day wonder, but it seems he represents a large block of people who agree with his point of view. That's unfortunate, IMHO.


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## coondawg

derek.larson said:


> One of my concerns in raising the girls is that I want them to learn to treat everyone "equally" unlike how many in the upper class of mexican society do, which isn't much different than Columbus, Georgia, I suppose.


Small world, no? Even those who treat everyone "equally" are often not treated as "equals" themselves in return. Go figure.


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## 2ndtime

*Putting a wrong spin on it*



coondawg said:


> TG, you are the only person using terms like "scary" and "fear". Look around and read posts CAREFULLY. The expats are still here because they have learned to adapt and take needed precautions. Those that listened to you and didn't, have left long ago.  I am just asking you to be straight up and honest to new people that may be coming from small town USA, where we can leave our keys in our car over night, windows open in the house at night, house unlocked when we go to the store or shopping, lawnmower out in the yard at night, etc. Neighbors look out for neighbors and will call the police if they see anything unusual happening in the neighborhood. Many people that come to Mexico have lived in similar situations NOB, and Mexico is not like that. You know that, yet you ALWAYS fail to tell these new people the precautions you take, as if people all have a lot of "common sense". You assume a lot. Rarely will any new people live the lifestyle you live here, so your experiences are not typical of many extranjeros here.


I think the Young (in heart) Lady was merely using an adjective and verb (and in a negative connotation) to elaborate her feeling/experiences in Mexico, and was NOT implying or extrapolating her experiences/precautions (or lack of) to that of the overall EXPAT general precaution list of ANY COUNTRY including our good old USA..
>
I think you also took her words and placed them in a different (your) context and miscued her original meaning/intentions.
> 
For her (only) as she can only speak for herself , Life's D-R-O's (Duties-Responsibilities-Obligations have been fulfilled (family obligations) and now she can live life on her own terms which (as I interpret are) Life can be short and is tenuous... so live it to its fullest.
>
If your 'newbie' Expat is truly from a 'classic' PleasantVille, USA small town where one never has to lock your house door or you can keep the keys in the cars....Well 'they better take "Welcome To The Real World 101" course before they move ANYWHERE, even 200 away from where they live now.


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## derek.larson

I would like to hear any, and all, opinions on whatever I might ask the forum and I would think others may feel the same way. I don't really consider myself a newbie expat, however, but that's ok if you do. I don't even think I will ever use "expat" to describe my status of living outside of my country of birth. I have been to Mexico on several previous trips over the span of 26 years, but never more than two weeks at a time. I am comfortable travelling solo and sitting at a bar full of people who look nothing like me. Just don't tell my wife I was there.


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## 2ndtime

derek.larson said:


> I would like to hear any, and all, opinions on whatever I might ask the forum and I would think others may feel the same way. I don't really consider myself a newbie expat, however, but that's ok if you do. I don't even think I will ever use "expat" to describe my status of living outside of my country of birth. I have been to Mexico on several previous trips over the span of 26 years, but never more than two weeks at a time. I am comfortable travelling solo and sitting at a bar full of people who look nothing like me. Just don't tell my wife I was there.


I lived in Mexico from 1985 through 1990, hanging out, going to the language school and submerge myself in the Mexican language/culture.
>
When I returned to Los Angeles I spoke a very respectable Spanish and continued to practice on a daily basis because of my business requiring me to train production line workers (mostly Latino workers, many of them who spoke no English) on my products these companies purchased from me.
>
I was in my mid-40s single, 5'10", attractive-slim, making money, and out and about. I would go out wearing tight jeans with 'Beatle'' style boots, Hawaiian style shirts with cutoff sleeves, full elbow to shoulder colorful tattoos and pierced ear jewelry.
>
I would be driving around any night of the week by myself and about one o'clock in the morning, heading to South Central LA (rough, tough, get robbed and get your throat sliced: all in one) Latino neighborhoods looking hole in the wall cantinas.
>
I would walk in to a small one room(30'x20'?) place and every sweaty illegal who was partying that Friday night /any night would stop their playing pool and just stare as I strutted casually and confidently, walked up to the bar which was no more than 5 to 8 feet from where the first of them stood.
>
At these cantinas there are always several Latina women whose job it is to make a customer feel comfortable. 
>
And of course in Spanish ordered myself a beer turned to the lady next to me and invited her to have a drink with me, which of course, she accepted and when I got the drinks, I tipped the bartender 10 bucks so at least I have hopefully one friend on my side.
>
Spent the next hour until closing time having one or two beers and ordering several for the ladies, drinking, chatting with her for an hour in Spanish and usually got to drive her home after closing, sometimes saying good night sometimes going upstairs.
>
I look back and think how the hell I never got robbed or mugged.


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## coondawg

derek.larson said:


> -the dog. I have an older border collie, but not quite "that old" to consider euthanasia, in my opinion, but not the opinion of everyone with a vote in the manner. Tobie has a habit of destroying things. He scratches (destroys) doors and/or anything to get my attention whenever he wants to come indoors or enter another room. Tobie also pees when he gets nervous, which could be several times during a thunderstorm. So, i'm semi-considering a temporary residence in the country somewhere. He's my dog. He can never be anyone else's. What are typical landlord stipulations regarding pets?
> 
> I know how you feel. Been there too many times, and will not have another dog (at least not yet), as it is too hard for me when i lose one. Landlords will be all over the place. Some will, some won't.
> 
> -other places. I've been watching lots of mexico videos lately, and soaking up as much as i can surfing the web. The flavor of the month is the huasteca potosina. I've driven through slp before, but never the green part with a seemingly endless flow of turquoise-colored rivers and waterfalls. I could live there...if it wasn't so hot. I have located a few nearby cities and towns that need a bit more research and might be on the edge of my temperature range (i.e. Jalpan de serra, pinal de amoles...bernal?). Heck, guanajuato's not really that far for a semi-annual trip to the area for hiking/kayaking. I've also learned about the "pueblos magicos" and having travelled through some of the cities before i don't quite agree with a few of the chosen towns on the list. I was surprised to see guanajuato as one of the top 5 cheapest cities to live in mexico: las 5 ciudades más caras y más baratas para vivir en méxico | el economista
> 
> 
> the thing i do like about leon, gto, is that we are really close for day trips, or one-nighters to lots of interesting places. So, i think you will find that guanajuato offers the same proximity to these places.
> 
> 
> -the school year and public vs. Private education.
> 
> I think on the gto forum (google that) there may be a lady member that has 2-3 children in school there, for maybe a year. You probably can get better info on education opportunities there, than here.
> 
> 
> -wildlife. Ok, i'll admit it. I'm addicted to nature. Not just beautiful scenery, but the critters that roam around too. Land without wildlife is a dead, barren, pile of earth preparing to be excavated. Where can i find "it" in mexico? I'd love to somehow do volunteer work with an organization that serves to protect native wildlife species in mexico.
> 
> Leon has a zoo. :d other than that,. Maybe someone on that gto forum has encountered some on their climbs. If you find some, would love to hear about it.
> 
> Suerte, :d


123


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## derek.larson

Is everyone drinking and posting tonight? I have that impression for some reason. Coondawg, thanks for answering my other random questions. I agree that GTO is a great place to be, and not far from other areas of interest. The weather's hard to beat, too. As far as the wildlife, I really, really want to see/photo a jaguar. I'm persistent, patient and a predator magnet. 
2nd Time, I play pool, too. Met my wife that way in Juarez in the late-80s.


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## coondawg

2ndtime said:


> >
> I look back and think how the hell I never got robbed or mugged.


I vote for:
"strutted casually and confidently, walked up to the bar which was no more than 5 to 8 feet from where the first of them stood".


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## jlms

derek.larson said:


> Updates with questions: In the past 2 weeks, I went from owning 3 cars to just 1. I'm still in debate-mode as to whether or not I should buy a car in Mexico and sell that vehicle at some point in the states. The big hold-up is completing the adoption of our granddaughters, with the hearing set for late October. The plan is still to move to Guanajuato, but a few things may alter that course. Things on my mind:
> 
> -THE DOG. I have an older border collie, but not quite "that old" to consider euthanasia, IN MY OPINION, but not the opinion of everyone with a vote in the manner. Tobie has a habit of destroying things. He scratches (destroys) doors and/or anything to get my attention whenever he wants to come indoors or enter another room. Tobie also pees when he gets nervous, which could be several times during a thunderstorm. So, I'm semi-considering a temporary residence in the country somewhere. He's my dog. He can never be anyone else's. What are typical landlord stipulations regarding pets?
> 
> -OTHER PLACES. I've been watching lots of Mexico videos lately, and soaking up as much as I can surfing the web. The flavor of the month is the HUASTECA POTOSINA. I've driven through SLP before, but never the green part with a seemingly endless flow of turquoise-colored rivers and waterfalls. I could live there...if it wasn't so hot. I have located a few nearby cities and towns that need a bit more research and might be on the edge of my temperature range (i.e. Jalpan de Serra, Pinal de Amoles...Bernal?). Heck, Guanajuato's not really that far for a semi-annual trip to the area for hiking/kayaking. I've also learned about the "Pueblos Magicos" and having travelled through some of the cities before I don't quite agree with a few of the chosen towns on the list. I was surprised to see Guanajuato as one of the top 5 cheapest cities to live in Mexico: Las 5 ciudades más caras y más baratas para vivir en México | El Economista
> 
> -THE SCHOOL YEAR AND PUBLIC VS. PRIVATE EDUCATION. Guanajuato posted the school calendar on the state government FB page, and I see that it's quite a long school year (24 AUG-15 JUL). Good. With our oldest granddaughter in pre-k at the moment, I've been looking at educational options in Mexico for when we arrive later this year. I suppose, like in the US, there are good and bad public schools, just like there are good and bad students (or parents), and the quality of education can depend on the faculty, town, city or area. There seem to be a lot of current and former teachers in this forum, can anyone weigh-in on the topic of sending a child to a public vs. private school in Mexico?
> 
> -WILDLIFE. OK, I'll admit it. I'm addicted to nature. Not just beautiful scenery, but the critters that roam around too. Land without wildlife is a dead, barren, pile of earth preparing to be excavated. Where can I find "it" in Mexico? I'd love to somehow do volunteer work with an organization that serves to protect native wildlife species in Mexico.


There are quite good public schools in Mexico and there are dire ones, and the same goes for private schools. My mother is a retired teacher that worked in both systems, she has a Masters degree in education and pedagogy and could have been a teacher of your children in the public system (you would have been extremely lucky).

She saw "teachers" without any training to be teachers be put in front of a classroom, and we are not talking about 2 cents schools, but some that people in Mexico City would recognize as expensive and exclusive, one of my uncle's thought Geography in one girls only school in Mexico City's Polanco, I esteem him dearly but at 21 he was more worried about avoiding the advances of the señoritas than teaching the subject matter (to this day he doesn't speak much English, the school was supposed to be bilingual).

One of may aunts was a secondary education teacher as well (12-15 year old kids) and was a credit to her profession.

Combining my observations of their work with my own as a student (always in public schools) I have my very personal view: I think there is very little difference in the quality of education at college (15-18 years old) and university between public and private institutions.

I think that private colleges are a waste of money regarding the educational aspect and their only saving grace is that the environment may be safer.

At university level I would not pay the extortionate fees of private universities, I have worked with, being boss of and worked for people with different backgrounds and the publicly educated people had very little to envy the privately educated ones, except their connections perhaps, but even this is doubtful.

For younger children (which is what I suppose you are more interested in) you have to do your homework: you have to go to the school, talk to the director or subdirector (or owner in the case of some smaller private schools) of the school and request information about the different teachers working there, what qualifications they have, if they work full time or part time and any other thing that will put your mind at ease. My primary school happened to be one where new educational techniques were put to test, so the teachers were all top notch, we are not talking about a posh neighborhood, but a run of the mill one with lots of unfancied tower blocks in the area.

You must do this legwork in private schools as well unless they are of indisputable quality (very few are), many of them are not worth the fees you pay for and present an image of proficiency by appealing to the "malinchismo" of local parents, they are basically a marketing trick not backed up by educational proficiency. Beware of schools that brand about buzzwords (Montessori, Kumol, Bilingual, whatever) because they may not have any facts to back that up.

In synthesis take a proactive interest in how the school is run and works, ask people around if they know of any good public schools (the ones in better of neighbourhoods often offer excellent quality) since that could save you a fortune.

The public system now offers English as a topic for small children (under 12), but even if you find a good public school and your children go there you will need to complement that with evening classes or watching foreign TV and becoming the teacher yourself 

Good luck


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