# Can't get a loan to avoid employer from filing case against me



## snowdog7342 (Oct 28, 2013)

I was working in a company for 1 year. During the time I messed up their stock system and was fired due to the same. I was unemployed for 5 months. Now that i have found a job and have started working again i need them to cancel my visa. But they are refusing stating that I caused them a loss of AED 100,000 and they will cancel my visa only if I pay up. Else they will file a fraud case against me.

I have started working last month in the new company and they are on my back regarding the cancellation of my old visa. I can tell them why the delay as it would damage my reputation.

I cant apply for a loan as I have no salary credit transactions on my bank account, Basically i'm in one messed up situation. 

I have no one who can help me with this so i'm looking for advice. Any one know any loop holes on obtaining a loan. I can afford to pay installments now. 

Can anyone help me on how to go about this????


----------



## saraswat (Apr 28, 2012)

Get in touch with a lawyer. This won't be free either, but I can't see any other way to resolve your issue.


----------



## Stevesolar (Dec 21, 2012)

Dont dig youself deeper into debt and trouble over this.
You may end up better off cutting your losses and finding employment back in India or elsewhere.
Depending on the influence of your former employer - they could be able to put you in a very difficult position financially and with the authorities.
If you have your passport to hand - then you might wish to consider a move pretty quickly.
Cheers
Steve


----------



## snowdog7342 (Oct 28, 2013)

Stevesolar said:


> Dont dig youself deeper into debt and trouble over this.
> You may end up better off cutting your losses and finding employment back in India or elsewhere.
> Depending on the influence of your former employer - they could be able to put you in a very difficult position financially and with the authorities.
> If you have your passport to hand - then you might wish to consider a move pretty quickly.
> ...


Hi Steve,

Thanks. but my passport is with the company. I have only 2 options: 
a. I arrange the money and pay them. 
b. I fight them legally.

I'd rather pay them and move on with my life. I have an excellent job opportunity that can make my career which I'd rather not give up. 

I need to find a way to get a loan somehow. Thanks my main concern at the the moment.


----------



## Mr Rossi (May 16, 2009)

This is nothing short of blackmail, please don't pay the 100k.

What was the terminology used when you were actually sacked ie gross negligence? How was it handled by HR and the company? Did you receive a letter?

Take this to the MOL. Don't mention the ins and outs, don't say anything about the 100k. Just say they are with holding your passport and won't cancel your visa.

Take it from there.


----------



## snowdog7342 (Oct 28, 2013)

Mr Rossi said:


> This is nothing short of blackmail, please don't pay the 100k.
> 
> What was the terminology used when you were actually sacked ie gross negligence? How was it handled by HR and the company? Did you receive a letter?
> 
> ...


Hi Mr. Rossi,

Thanks for the advice. I have been dismissed on the basis of labour law article 120 section C. At the time they dismissed me immediately at told me to wait and they will get back to me. From my side I did all I could to help and provide clarity on the issues caused by me. They did not cancel my visa at the time. Now 5 months later that I have a new job they still wont cancel it. 

I can go to the MOL and complaint but I'm worried this could back fire. As in they would cancel my visa then file a legal case against me.


----------



## k_ajay (Oct 16, 2013)

Knowing almost nothing about the labour law there, it is only logical (from what I've read) that it may not even be ideal to work for another employer until your contract and/or sponsored visa of the earlier/primary employer be terminated correctly. (I don't mean to scorn but it's interesting how your current employer gave you the job without ensuring the right Visa sponsorship has been adhered to).

Since you mention your most recent job opportunity is where you seem to consider having a career, you should assess the risks of losing that job and putting that employer (too) in a legal hassle, should things go bad when you approach MOL (at some point, you may be referenced to them, so don't consider avoiding going to them).

As Saraswat has rightly advised, it's best to get an advocate to represent you. And as Mr. Rossi has also said, don't get worried and play into their hands because of their threats. Act calmly (not too slowly), doing the right thing, step by step.

Be careful, good luck and hope things turn for the better.


----------



## Budw (Oct 14, 2013)

snowdog7342 said:


> Hi Steve,
> 
> Thanks. but my passport is with the company. I have only 2 options:
> a. I arrange the money and pay them.
> ...


You have that 3rd option, and that is involving MOL. 

Never pay them the 100k, they have no right to demand that the way they did. Has the company logged a criminal case against you? That is the only legal way for the company to get compensation considered.

I would advice, to involve MOL, but be aware when they investigate, they will also have a problem with you because you started working at the new company without a valid visa from that company.... But let this not deter you: that is a minor thing in comparison what you are facing now.


----------



## BedouGirl (Sep 15, 2011)

Did you get a termination letter from the company stating exactly WHY you were fired? Did you sign it to accept that you did it? Did you agree in writing to pay them back? Fairly soon they will be questioned as to why you are on their visa and their salary report does not include you. You seem to be genuine in that you are admitting on here that you did mess up, but did they really lose that much money? Can they prove it?


----------



## saraswat (Apr 28, 2012)

Budw said:


> But let this not deter you: that is a minor thing in comparison what you are facing now.


Just to make it clear, someone illegally working anywhere other than their employment visa sponsor is actually not a minor thing, regardless of comparison to any other circumstances. The MOL and other authorities for that matter rarely take other situations into consideration as mitigating factors, specifically when it comes to issues regarding a direct and blatant violation of labor laws ...

To the OP, before you do anything, I would again ask you to consider getting competent legal advice, preferrably from a labor law expert firm/litigator. Going with what you have mentioned, you e I ther pay the 100K or have a criminal case against you, rather cut and dry. Given this, spending some money to enlist the services of a lawyer should really be an afterthought for you given the scenario. 

Good luck.


----------



## imac (Oct 14, 2012)

saraswat said:


> Just to make it clear, someone illegally working anywhere other than their employment visa sponsor is actually not a minor thing, regardless of comparison to any other circumstances. The MOL and other authorities for that matter rarely take other situations into consideration as mitigating factors, specifically when it comes to issues regarding a direct and blatant violation of labor laws ...
> 
> To the OP, before you do anything, I would again ask you to consider getting competent legal advice, preferrably from a labor law expert firm/litigator. Going with what you have mentioned, you e I ther pay the 100K or have a criminal case against you, rather cut and dry. Given this, spending some money to enlist the services of a lawyer should really be an afterthought for you given the scenario.
> 
> Good luck.


from what I remember reading about the labour law, if someone is terminated for causing a material loss to an employer, the employer is obligated to report the termination and the reasoning themselves to the MOL...

talk to a lawyer... even if you end up paying them, the lawyer can ensure its done in a such a way so you are free and clear...


----------



## snowdog7342 (Oct 28, 2013)

BedouGirl said:


> Did you get a termination letter from the company stating exactly WHY you were fired? Did you sign it to accept that you did it? Did you agree in writing to pay them back? Fairly soon they will be questioned as to why you are on their visa and their salary report does not include you. You seem to be genuine in that you are admitting on here that you did mess up, but did they really lose that much money? Can they prove it?


Yes I did get a termination letter from my company. They terminated me under article 120 section C of the labour law which state that "If he commits an error causing substantial material loss to the employer provided that the latter advises the labour department of the incident within 48 hours from having knowledge of the same." In no ways whatsoever did I agree in writing to pay them back. And they did not hint on the same prior to this. Note they did not report to the Ministry of Labour within 48hrs as per the clause. Well i'm presuming they didn't other wise the MOL would have cancelled my visa right away.


----------



## JonGard (Aug 18, 2013)

How can it be a criminal case if he's just cocked up? It's not illegal to be crap at your job. If it was, I'd have been in the clink for years 

(I could be missing something though)


----------



## snowdog7342 (Oct 28, 2013)

I thinks it's time I head to the Ministry of Labour and see how to proceed from there. I'm gonna head there coming Monday. It seem that I have do choice if I want to move along. Any last advice before Monday cause I've never been to the MOL.


----------



## TallyHo (Aug 21, 2011)

The company clearly erred in not immediately reporting the dismissal to MoL. That they're holding on to your passport without canceling the visa five months later is flat out illegal. It looks like it's one of those shady, unscrupulous and incompetent companies and there's no legal obligation for you to reimburse them for the loss. 

You do need to go to MoL. Just don't tell them about your new job. MoL will put pressure on the company to release your passport and cancel the visa. My guess is that a simple phone call from MoL will be enough to scare them without pressing the case against you as they'd have to explain why they held on to your passport and didn't cancel your visa for the last five months despite you not being on their payroll.


----------



## dizzyizzy (Mar 30, 2008)

snowdog7342 said:


> Yes I did get a termination letter from my company. They terminated me under article 120 section C of the labour law which state that "If he commits an error causing substantial material loss to the employer provided that the latter advises the labour department of the incident within 48 hours from having knowledge of the same." In no ways whatsoever did I agree in writing to pay them back. And they did not hint on the same prior to this. Note they did not report to the Ministry of Labour within 48hrs as per the clause. Well i'm presuming they didn't other wise the MOL would have cancelled my visa right away.


Why don't you go to the MOL and get some advice on the matter? If you did not sign a paper stating that you were going to repay these moneys I don't think is right to bring it up now and condition your visa cancelation. How did they come up with the 100K figure for example? Why didn't they report this to the MOL when they dismissed you?


----------



## TallyHo (Aug 21, 2011)

I'm going to be blunt and say that you cannot afford to be scared of going to MoL, which is the impression I'm getting from you. 

You really have no choice but to contact them and report the issue. At the end of the day the most important thing is to get your passport back so that you can move on, and it'll only happen if you take up the case with MoL. 

I've noticed that too many people in Dubai are afraid of the various municipality agencies for no good reason.


----------



## dizzyizzy (Mar 30, 2008)

I agree, it doesn't cost you anything to go and get some free advice, and I cannot think of any negative consequences for you. They will help you to get your passport back and get your visa cancelled, possibly even give a fine your ex employer for retaining your passport and not cancelling your visa, and if they agree that you have to repay moneys to the ex employer (which at this stage I'd doubt they would because so much time has passed already and this was not brought up/agreed beforehand) they probably would come up with a fair figure and some sort of settlement or payment plan. Just don't mention anything about your current job because that could have serious implications for you.


----------



## BedouGirl (Sep 15, 2011)

TallyHo said:


> The company clearly erred in not immediately reporting the dismissal to MoL. That they're holding on to your passport without canceling the visa five months later is flat out illegal. It looks like it's one of those shady, unscrupulous and incompetent companies and there's no legal obligation for you to reimburse them for the loss. You do need to go to MoL. Just don't tell them about your new job. MoL will put pressure on the company to release your passport and cancel the visa. My guess is that a simple phone call from MoL will be enough to scare them without pressing the case against you as they'd have to explain why they held on to your passport and didn't cancel your visa for the last five months despite you not being on their payroll.


They've broken the law in this respect. It contravenes the pay protection law here. They cannot have you on their visa if they are not employing/paying you. This may help you in resolving this issue because, although they MAY have a case against you, you MAY also have a case against them. Just be prepared to explain why you did not bring a complaint sooner.


----------



## snowdog7342 (Oct 28, 2013)

I will be approaching the MOL to complain about the same for sure. It seems like my only option. I think it would be better I complain first before my company has the opportunity to do the same. 

Has anyone done this before? what documents do I need to carry? Which office do I go to, there are so many mentioned online?

Help!!


----------



## snowdog7342 (Oct 28, 2013)

Hi Everyone,

I went to MOL and complaint against my company. The MOL agree that the company has to cancel my Visa ASAP and that I am not liable to pay anything to them. They called the company and told them to cancel my Visa ASAP and that if the company wanted to hold me liable they should have complained to the police or MOL immediately and not sit on it for six months. 

They have asked myself & the company to come with my cancellation papers to the MOL tomorrow and they agreed. Hopefully they comply.

God bless you guys!!! Thanks for giving me the courage and advice to go to the MOL. I will update you again once my I get my passport and cancelled visa in hand. Wish me luck!


----------



## BedouGirl (Sep 15, 2011)

Yay!!! I am delighted. Please let us know what happens. We are all thinking of you.


----------



## dizzyizzy (Mar 30, 2008)

snowdog7342 said:


> Hi Everyone,
> 
> I went to MOL and complaint against my company. The MOL agree that the company has to cancel my Visa ASAP and that I am not liable to pay anything to them. They called the company and told them to cancel my Visa ASAP and that if the company wanted to hold me liable they should have complained to the police or MOL immediately and not sit on it for six months.
> 
> ...


That is great news and I am happy you decided to approach the MOL and they are being so helpful. I hope this encourages to others in the same or similar situation. And hopefully your old employer will think twice before they decide to hold on to someone's passport illegally again. 

Good luck and hope everything goes smoothly for you from now on.


----------



## snowdog7342 (Oct 28, 2013)

To my luck the person who was looking into my situation at MOL called in sick today. Gotta wait till tomorrow now. Fingers crossed.


----------



## snowdog7342 (Oct 28, 2013)

Hi Everyone,

The company PRO came on Thursday to MOL and submitted the necessary documents for my cancellation. I will get all my papers today as confirmed to me by the PRO. Now I got to get my passport back from the company hope they don't act smart again.


----------



## snowdog7342 (Oct 28, 2013)

Hey,

I finally got all my cancellation papers back today. They didn't want to give me back my passport but as soon as I told them that it is illegal and that I would complain they immediately had a change of heart and gave it back to me. So I've finally got everything.

My old boss is not around and had a message passed around that he wants to meet me. I sure he is absolutely pissed off and probably want to throw some threats around. So I decided i won't go, nor will I answer any call from the company. What u think??? Am I doing the right thing here???


----------



## dizzyizzy (Mar 30, 2008)

snowdog7342 said:


> Hey,
> 
> I finally got all my cancellation papers back today. They didn't want to give me back my passport but as soon as I told them that it is illegal and that I would complain they immediately had a change of heart and gave it back to me. So I've finally got everything.
> 
> My old boss is not around and had a message passed around that he wants to meet me. I sure he is absolutely pissed off and probably want to throw some threats around. So I decided i won't go, nor will I answer any call from the company. What u think??? Am I doing the right thing here???


I can't believe these people! Trying to still hold on to your passport despite the fact that the MOL is already involved? Not only they are abusive but they are also stupid.

Since your visa has been cancelled and you got your passport back, I think is safe to start ignoring them now, unless they still owe you something? Good riddance.


----------



## Mr Rossi (May 16, 2009)

snowdog7342 said:


> So I decided i won't go, nor will I answer any call from the company. What u think??? Am I doing the right thing here???


Yes, I doubt very much they are calling to say sorry. Best avoid at all costs now.


----------



## BedouGirl (Sep 15, 2011)

So, all's well that ends well? When will you leave?


----------



## Budw (Oct 14, 2013)

snowdog7342 said:


> Hey,
> 
> My old boss is not around and had a message passed around that he wants to meet me. I sure he is absolutely pissed off and probably want to throw some threats around. So I decided i won't go, nor will I answer any call from the company. What u think??? Am I doing the right thing here???



When he calls you, you could just listen to him for the last piece of your enjoyment, you are the winner here . You got nothing to loose...


----------



## saraswat (Apr 28, 2012)

True. Why not hear them out, like Budw mentioned, you've got nothing to loose. And although this experience has been terrible, you never know, in your new position or down the road, there might be some business that can be done. 

People have made up after far worse, professionally and personally in my experience. Maybe the burnt bridge isn't completely burnt, just saying ...


----------



## BedouGirl (Sep 15, 2011)

saraswat said:


> True. Why not hear them out, like Budw mentioned, you've got nothing to loose. And although this experience has been terrible, you never know, in your new position or down the road, there might be some business that can be done. People have made up after far worse, professionally and personally in my experience. Maybe the burnt bridge isn't completely burnt, just saying ...


I totally agree. You never know what may happen and you will be the 'bigger' person by listening. Don't allow yourself to be led into anything that could 'incriminate' you. Just listen and at the end of the conversation, say thank you nicely and goodbye.


----------

