# Sydney v Amsterdam



## simonmobiledisco (Dec 2, 2008)

I am in a bizarre situation in terms of career decision.

I am in recruitment (5+ experience and a good reputation and credentials) and have a decision to make. I can take a role with my existing company in an existing office in amsterdam with a prospect of moving to the states in 2 years in pioneering move for the business.

Or there is the option of moving to an Aussie company and in a fwe years make a pioneering move for them in Asia.

Lets put aside my personal and emotoinal variences for each move and say that the long term prospects are equally as appealling and look at the intermediatry issue.

What is the better move for short to medium term. Amsterdam or Australia, taking into accounts of business experience accrued, standard of living, lifestyle and culture. I am 28 a very socially active and into music, sport and general adventure.

I am looking for people who have lived in both countries and can make the comparison for me.

Please let me know options or stories.

cheers


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## Tiffani (Dec 4, 2007)

honestly? I'd go for Amsterdam


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## amaslam (Sep 25, 2008)

Actually I'd say opposite, the Australia-Asia move. Frankly I think there will be more activity there (Asia) and that is intended to grow at a faster rate than the States.


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## epidaetia (Nov 15, 2008)

If it was Melbourne and Amsterdam, I might have voted for Mel.. But between Sydney and Ams.. Ams for me.. But then again.. i visited both places as tourists... so can;t really say what goes on for long- term...


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## Tiffani (Dec 4, 2007)

I live in Melbourne. I honestly haven't been to Sydney. I have visited Amsterdam and lived in Europe, and I guess I just have a more European-type sensibility (I'm from the US), so that's why I would personally choose Amsterdam. 

But in truth you probably won't go far wrong either way.


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## epidaetia (Nov 15, 2008)

I don't know why but I didn't like sydney too much.. maybe because I was staying in subs with friends.. and commute to city was sooo long... 
Mel, I just fell in love with.. we were staying near chinatown.. so everything was near by and Nightlife just rocked in there.. 
And that's why.. I like Ams too.. Amazing place to just stay and play... 

Now as to stay there, work and have a career oriented life.. I've absolutely no idea... 

I would choose a place where I've better position and work as of now.. 
I would really not care so much about 2 years down the line because you never know, things change..


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## manish1980 (Nov 8, 2008)

simonmobiledisco said:


> I am in a bizarre situation in terms of career decision.
> 
> I am in recruitment (5+ experience and a good reputation and credentials) and have a decision to make. I can take a role with my existing company in an existing office in amsterdam with a prospect of moving to the states in 2 years in pioneering move for the business.
> 
> ...


I don't know about Sydney but I can tell you "Amsterdam" is great place.Haved 2 yrs in Amsterdam/Brussels.I will go to Amsterdam and have a euro trip


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## Loeske17 (Nov 22, 2007)

*A'dam*

Hey,

Well I'd go for Sydney but that's because I live in Amsterdam... grass is always greener etc... 
Look at what you want, consider weather, housing prices and what you get for them (lest you wanna live in the "hood", think around 1000 euro's for a 2-3 room in Amsterdam, then add bout 120 euro's utilities.). Other than that Amsterdam is a great city, very picturesque and lotsa tourists 

Let me know if you have any questions bout A'dam though, maybe I can help


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## simonmobiledisco (Dec 2, 2008)

the two things i didn't want to happen happened.

An even split of thought. and alsos the melbourne v sydney debate. A lot of friends say i would like Melbourne more then sydney. more cultural and artistic cround and more individual, however i was deduced by the business capital and sunnier shores.

oh woe is me


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## amaslam (Sep 25, 2008)

Hi Simon:

Just answer it like this. What do you want to be doing in 5 yrs? 

Then where do you think you will have more 'success' in that time?

Success usually means more than one thing, for some it's financial, for others it's a work-life balance, for others it's position in a company (i.e. Regional Director of Paper Mobility), for some it's experiencing a variety of really different cultures from their own. And for most it's a combination of all of them. 

For the opinions it's clear you can't really do badly in either place.

I've been to Melbourne about 20 times in the last 2 yrs and it's definitely more cultural and has more night-life, BUT that's not all that important to me, I'm a much larger fan of sunnier shores and beaches, hence I chose Sydney. In my profession moving to MEL is never particularly difficult but every visit after about a week I'm always wanting to go back to SYD.

And others here don't like Sydney and I don't disagree with them, they have found what they like in MEL or Amsterdam more than Sydney.



simonmobiledisco said:


> the two things i didn't want to happen happened.
> 
> An even split of thought. and alsos the melbourne v sydney debate. A lot of friends say i would like Melbourne more then sydney. more cultural and artistic cround and more individual, however i was deduced by the business capital and sunnier shores.
> 
> oh woe is me


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## Tiffani (Dec 4, 2007)

I have been disappointed by the cultural life here in Melbourne, to be honest, and so has my partner. Maybe we were expecting greatness because we'd heard it was the cultural capital of Australia (and I haven't been to any of the other capitals, but if that's the case, it's a sad state of affairs for the country at large) but we haven't been particularly impressed. 

apart from the free outdoors concerts in the summer put on by the Melbourne Symphony Orchestra, things tend to be prohibitively expensive.

To be fair, we may have been spoiled by living in college towns in the US (like, posh colleges such as Princeton and Durham where Duke Univ. is) so the cultural life is vibrant and FREE! 

I've heard Melbourne compared to San Francisco a lot but I think San Francisco puts Melbourne to shame, and don't even start comparing Melbourne with the cultural life of major European cities!


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## Loeske17 (Nov 22, 2007)

Ok, if you want individualism and culture, I feel obliged to say that you probably won't find better than Amsterdam (considering your options). Though I'm sure there's plenty to do and experience in both Melbourne and Sydney, they are both much much younger cities and therefore (in my opinion) can't really compare. Though Amsterdam can feel a bit crowded now and again, you can be blissfully anonymous if you'd like to be. I dunno why but the true Amsterdam is really hard to describe. It's so historical and artistic and different, I'm still learning new things about it every day. I guess the only way to find out if you'd like Amsterdam is to actually live there. Visiting is not the same, as you are likely to end up in the wave of tourists that go do the same things. I know this is not very helpful  Sorry.


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## simonmobiledisco (Dec 2, 2008)

Loeske17 said:


> Ok, if you want individualism and culture, I feel obliged to say that you probably won't find better than Amsterdam (considering your options). Though I'm sure there's plenty to do and experience in both Melbourne and Sydney, they are both much much younger cities and therefore (in my opinion) can't really compare. Though Amsterdam can feel a bit crowded now and again, you can be blissfully anonymous if you'd like to be. I dunno why but the true Amsterdam is really hard to describe. It's so historical and artistic and different, I'm still learning new things about it every day. I guess the only way to find out if you'd like Amsterdam is to actually live there. Visiting is not the same, as you are likely to end up in the wave of tourists that go do the same things. I know this is not very helpful  Sorry.


don't worry it gets more confusing every day. I've lived in Shoreditch/east central london for years so hecticness is not a problem in fact i'd miss it in the long term (occasionally )

There is no substitute to living somewhere, i appreciate it. oh gosh, what is a man to do. in the past 24 hours, I met an aussie who said go dam, and i met an irish who said go sydney. the theme is the grass is greener typically.......


keep the opinions coming guys


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## ADH (Dec 26, 2008)

I live in Sydney but have spent a great deal of time in Amsterdam. One thing to consider is the language. While many Dutch speak great English, the chances are in the limited time you will be there, you won't pick up that much Dutch whereas you won't have that issue in Sydney. This will have an influence on who you socialise with and your life in general. If you're 'cultured' and by that I mean enjoy going to museums, concerts of both classical and modern music, art galleries and architecture, modern European history then I'd choose Amsterdam. However, if you enjoy the outdoors, sports (watching and participating), beaches, warmer weather and less focus on those 'cultural' things then Sydney it is. Both seem like odd places to go when you would head to the US from Amsterdam and to 'Asia' (whatever that means, I'll assume SE Asia such as Singapore) then neither place will set you up for those places later on.

I also lived in Melbourne for 6 months and I never quite get this whole 'more cultured' thing. There are plenty of theatres (and a certain Opera House) in Sydney as well and most plays/operas/concerts show in both cities. In terms of art galleries and exhibitions I believe both cities are pretty much equal. Restaurants are cheaper in Melbourne (therefore better perceived) but are just as varied in Sydney. Melbourne is deemed more 'European' however, if you want to experience life in an European city then go to Europe as you will not get the same experience. I would say that if you're an avid skier then Melb is 3 hours from the snow as opposed to Sydney's 6 but flying can help that as well. If you want more consistent weather then Sydney is also the one although Spring 2008 was a very bumpy ride with temperatures fluctuating from 21 to 34 throughout the whole season.

Not sure where you are based now either but I would say that if you are in Europe (with a European passport) then go to Australia now. Taking into account the financial crisis. I think recruiters would be more successful in Asia than the US as well.


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## sennari08 (Jan 5, 2009)

Hi,

My 2 cents: I have lived in Sydney for the past 5 years. Before that I lived in Berlin for 3 years. Unfortunately, I have not lived in Amsterdam. I am no longer in my 20s, but I think that if I had been I would have left Sydney by now. To live in Sydney and enjoy 'big city' offerings (culture, socialising, eating out, adventure) it is my view that you need a six-figure salary. Costs are very high. Housing costs (rent and mortgages) in particular are so high that if you cannot afford to live in an inner city suburb you will spend in excess of 2 (usually unpleasant due to overcrowding) hrs a day commuting. When I arrived here I found that socialising is limited to people who live in your suburb, socialising at work during the day, and the odd drink at a pub after work. With long commutes after work, there is not much going on culturally, because most people want to get home as quickly as possible. In addition, because renting and finding 'space' is so expensive, there is very little if any subculture going on and less established artists have a tough time. On the plus side, Sydney is great if you have a clear priority to live by and enjoy the beach and are willing to make sacrifices for it. Some of the beaches truly are spectactular, as is the weather. Just don't expect the city to be mentally stimulating. Also, if you have the time and budget, the opportunity to make trips to Asia during your time in Sydney is nothing to be sneezed at! To sum up, Sydney would get my vote if the main aim was to see a different culture, different people and spend plenty of time at the beach, perhaps for 2-3 yrs, and make a couple of trips to south-east asia. For anything else, cities in Europe such as Berlin, Paris etc would get my vote. Hands down.

Anecdotally: most friends of mine who are into music (musicians, singers) were unhappy in Sydney and ended up moving to Melbourne (and loving it) or back overseas.


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