# Cost of living for a £1000 ??????



## Deancaz

Hi all
Could anyone tell me please, do you think its possible to live in portugal, (Rural), and have a comfortable living for £1000 a month, or are we way off the mark.
thanks all
CAZDEAN


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## omostra06

yes its possible depending on your choice of lifestyle,
Most portuguese manage on less than half of that amount.


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## flashfolly

Deancaz said:


> Hi all
> Could anyone tell me please, do you think its possible to live in portugal, (Rural), and have a comfortable living for £1000 a month, or are we way off the mark.
> thanks all
> CAZDEAN


I'd like an answer to that question too... I've seen elsewhere a line that someone can live basically in Portugal on €1,000 a month, but I wasn't sure just what's meant by basic. If you google "cost of living in Portugal" you get some useful info, but I think you still have to do calculations yourself. I'm just about to do mine ....


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## omostra06

well, most portuguese if employed will earn 475 euros per month to live on.

I guess it depends on your life style, if you eat out several times a week drive a thirsty car, buy expensive clothes, get your hair, nails etc done every week then it might not be enough.
but 
if you spend 80 euros per week on food shoping,(320 per month) 20 on water 30 on electric, 20 on gas, 50 on going out meal drinks once a week (200 per month ) 40 per month on insurance car/house, if you need to pay rent or a mortgage 400 per month, then your almost there.


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## Mr.Blueskies

If you are alone and in control of everything you will be fine. If on the other hand your o/h is is control of the finances and there is even one kid involved in the equasion, well your screwed.


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## Margot

"Most portuguese manage on less than half of that amount. "

And they are very unhappy about it.


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## Mr.Blueskies

Margot said:


> "Most portuguese manage on less than half of that amount. "
> 
> And they are very unhappy about it.


 Hi Margot,
They have very good reason to be unhappy. I know one pt chap with a stay at home wife and child who makes a round trip of 30km to work every day (drives) and for 40 hours work his take home pay is €140. Probably €20 - €25 out of this next goes on petrol. I just don't know how they are able to manage to be honest. Plus his work is seasonal and next usually completely dries up once the tourist season has ended.

The portuguese do seem to be a very resourceful people and many in the rural areas (where work is very scarce) can luckily be pretty self sufficient in some things which definately helps. But having said that the inability to earn a satisfactory and secure living wage for a great many quite obviously places a great strain on marriages and relationships. A lot of expats perhaps are oblivious to this.


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## Mr.Blueskies

omostra06 said:


> well, most portuguese if employed will earn 475 euros per month to live on.
> 
> I guess it depends on your life style, if you eat out several times a week drive a thirsty car, buy expensive clothes, get your hair, nails etc done every week then it might not be enough.
> but
> if you spend 80 euros per week on food shoping,(320 per month) 20 on water 30 on electric, 20 on gas, 50 on going out meal drinks once a week (200 per month ) 40 per month on insurance car/house, if you need to pay rent or a mortgage 400 per month, then your almost there.


 This list does not include additional things like phone ie land line and mobile, internet connection, petrol, annual car service, plus the cost of 2-3 ton of wood for winter heat, new cloths etc. There are also the unexpected one off things like visits to the dentist, doctors and prescriptions and if children are involved school books, school meals, transport etc.


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## omostra06

Mr.Blueskies said:


> Hi Margot,
> They have very good reason to be unhappy. I know one pt chap with a stay at home wife and child who makes a round trip of 30km to work every day (drives) and for 40 hours work his take home pay is €140. Probably €20 - €25 out of this next goes on petrol. I just don't know how they are able to manage to be honest. Plus his work is seasonal and next usually completely dries up once the tourist season has ended.
> 
> The portuguese do seem to be a very resourceful people and many in the rural areas (where work is very scarce) can luckily be pretty self sufficient in some things which definately helps. But having said that the inability to earn a satisfactory and secure living wage for a great many quite obviously places a great strain on marriages and relationships. A lot of expats perhaps are oblivious to this.


yes a large number of portuguese do survive on the min wage, although they dont like it and i guess would love to earn more, my experience of employing people here is that the majority are happy to stay on minimum wage even when more is being offered to them. we have employed several people that due to our payment structure can earn more than min wage, easily double per month, for taking on different responsibilities withing the company, many choose not to, and stay on low wages through choice! I dont understand this way of thinking, complaining about not having much money, then be offered a way to double your income (with a bit more responsibility no more working hours) and then to turn it down!
If i had seen this happen once i would have thought it was just one individual person, not bothered about earning more, but over more than 4 years and lots of staff it repeats again and again. strange!


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## flashfolly

I've spent some time over the last few days gathering as much information as I can, from this thread, this forum, elsewhere and from people who've already done a lot of work on this, to establish a budget that is realistic for becoming resident and living on the Algarve. Here's what I've come up with, and I'm happy for people to challenge any aspect of it because all suggestions are welcome.

Based on us buying outright a 2-bedroom house, in euros these are monthly costs:

400 food
200 drinks (hope this doesn't indicate we have a problem!)
200 eating out
120 tennis court fees (v. important) and other classes
20 annual car service
33 car insurance
100 diesel
60 electricity
20 gas
35 water/drainage
10 wood for the stove in winter
100 local council tax
30 phone
30 broadband
15 house insurance
30 vitamin supplements for ageing joints!
30 hair cuts!
30 dog food
30 buying clothers/shoes
100 medical contingency 

I've tried to think of everything, and erred on the side of the cautious, but just over 1600 euros a month is very do-able from our point of view.

Please fire away!

Nick


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## Mr.Blueskies

flashfolly said:


> I've spent some time over the last few days gathering as much information as I can, from this thread, this forum, elsewhere and from people who've already done a lot of work on this, to establish a budget that is realistic for becoming resident and living on the Algarve. Here's what I've come up with, and I'm happy for people to challenge any aspect of it because all suggestions are welcome.
> 
> Based on us buying outright a 2-bedroom house, in euros these are monthly costs:
> 
> 400 food
> 200 drinks (hope this doesn't indicate we have a problem!)
> 200 eating out
> 120 tennis court fees (v. important) and other classes
> 20 annual car service
> 33 car insurance
> 100 diesel
> 60 electricity
> 20 gas
> 35 water/drainage
> 10 wood for the stove in winter
> 100 local council tax
> 30 phone
> 30 broadband
> 15 house insurance
> 30 vitamin supplements for ageing joints!
> 30 hair cuts!
> 30 dog food
> 30 buying clothers/shoes
> 100 medical contingency
> 
> I've tried to think of everything, and erred on the side of the cautious, but just over 1600 euros a month is very do-able from our point of view.
> 
> Please fire away!
> 
> Nick


 Hi Nick,
Since you are going to be mortgage and rent free your figures are more than enough in my opinion. I would go as far as to say that you will have enough left over each year for a nice little holiday. Two additional areas that can be very expensive are trips back to the uk and having friends come to visit. Because people are coming to see you, there can be a natural tendency to feel obliged to next show them a good time. I have done it all myself. lol Airport pick ups and drop offs. Buying in extra food. Driving them about all over. Going out to eat with them every day. Depending on how many come this can soon get ridiculous and completely out of control. So do begin as you mean to continue. Get them to hire a car and to basically do their own thing and if you are clever let them treat you and your good lady. I mean you will be putting them up for free I imagine. lol

You will also be exempt from paying council IMI tax here for the first eight years after you buy. I came unstuck with this myself because I foolishly believed that this exemption was automatic and next just kicked in once the property was registered to my name at the notaries office. Not so. You have to go to your local camara and apply for it yourself. You must do this within three months of purchase. I ended up losing the first two years exemption plus they charged me an additional amount (penalty) for making a late payment.  So do not assume anything or imagine that others are taking care of business.


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## flashfolly

Thanks Mr.B - it's a relief to know my figures are o.k., and your other advice is gratefully received.

Best regards,

Nick


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## spider

*Cost of Living in Portugal*



Deancaz said:


> Hi all
> Could anyone tell me please, do you think its possible to live in portugal, (Rural), and have a comfortable living for £1000 a month, or are we way off the mark.
> thanks all
> CAZDEAN


I know you have had many replies to your question but all is not quite as simple as it sounds. Cars for example are an issue. If you drive a british car you will have to matriculate it or keep going back to UK to MOT it. Car tax, my understanding is once you matriculate (if you chooose to) you will be chartged the max road tax regardless of car size so you will pay over 200 euros for that where as the Portuguese only pay about 20 euros a year for normal sized car. WE have been here a year in rural central portugal. When we came we bought land and built a house because it was actually cheaper. Now we find its actually cheaper to buy a house that build one as there is so much for sale on the market. Fuel, gas and electricity compare with the UK. Please remember as I said if you want rural you will be driving everywhere to get what you want things are not on your doorstep and thats where the money mounts up. The people and climate are wonderful and it was well worth the move but please do not think it is cheap because it is not, unless you live off the land cut your own wood etc. I would say and I know this has been said on forums when we were looking 3 years ago you can live comfortably on 2000 euros a month but 1000 euros a month I very much doubt it unless you want real culture shock.. good luck
Spider


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## notlongnow

I think your budget looks fine and realistic. Your electricity and gas figures are potentially a bit low, especially if you become a fan of aircon and you shouldn't need what you have budgeted for council tax.

As previously mentioned though, trips to the UK are a killer, especially as you can't control when they are. Since we've been here we've had three weddings to go to - by the time we've done the stag nights, the wedding hotels, car hire in the UK, wedding gifts, parking etc, the bill for attending the three events is close to £5000 - we did our budget in huge detail before we left and this is something we didn't account for.

Also agreed on the guest thing. It's hard not to get swept along when you are spending time with people in holiday mode.

B


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## flashfolly

spider said:


> I know you have had many replies to your question but all is not quite as simple as it sounds. Cars for example are an issue. If you drive a british car you will have to matriculate it or keep going back to UK to MOT it. Car tax, my understanding is once you matriculate (if you chooose to) you will be chartged the max road tax regardless of car size so you will pay over 200 euros for that where as the Portuguese only pay about 20 euros a year for normal sized car.
> Spider


I'm surprised if they can discriminate like that. I thought if you have become a resident of the country (and have your UK car matriculated, whatever that process is) then you would be treated the same as the Portuguese. Surely it would be against some EU ruling or other to charge us more?

Another point to bear in mind is that insurance companies will charge you almost double the premium if your car is registered in the UK, though I know the quote that I've just had for my 2003 car was only for third party fire and theft if Portugal registered because of its age.


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## spider

*Car Tax*



flashfolly said:


> I'm surprised if they can discriminate like that. I thought if you have become a resident of the country (and have your UK car matriculated, whatever that process is) then you would be treated the same as the Portuguese. Surely it would be against some EU ruling or other to charge us more?
> 
> Another point to bear in mind is that insurance companies will charge you almost double the premium if your car is registered in the UK, though I know the quote that I've just had for my 2003 car was only for third party fire and theft if Portugal registered because of its age.


There may well be an EU ruling but Portugal takes no notice of the ruling about bringing your car into an EU country and tries to charge import tax on your car regardless of age and the amount is often more than the car is worth


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## Mr.Blueskies

It may be better to sell your car in the uk and next buy something here. This is what I decided to do. If you bring your car you need to realise that it will be pretty worthless here should you wish to upgrade later. Also right hand drive cars are a pain in other ways. For example when paying the road tolls in a right hand drive car you are on the wrong side of the toll booth which means having to get out and walk around every time. lol Bear in mind that when you park a right hand drive car and get out, you are stepping out on to the roadway and particularly the way many portuguese drive I would not personally wish to do that. You are also more likely to be stopped by the traffic police just to satisfy themselves that your car is matriculated and that you have not over stayed the 6 month rule like many do.

I don't know anyone who is paying €20 a year to tax their car like spider says ? I have a pt purchased 09 Hyundai i20 and my annual road tax is €115. Would much prefer to pay €20 though.
:eyebrows:


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## spider

*Car Tax*



Mr.Blueskies said:


> It may be better to sell your car in the uk and next buy something here. This is what I decided to do. If you bring your car you need to realise that it will be pretty worthless here should you wish to upgrade later. Also right hand drive cars are a pain in other ways. For example when paying the road tolls in a right hand drive car you are on the wrong side of the toll booth which means having to get out and walk around every time. lol Bear in mind that when you park a right hand drive car and get out, you are stepping out on to the roadway and particularly the way many portuguese drive I would not personally wish to do that. You are also more likely to be stopped by the traffic police just to satisfy themselves that your car is matriculated and that you have not over stayed the 6 month rule like many do.
> 
> I don't know anyone who is paying €20 a year to tax their car like spider says ? I have a pt purchased 09 Hyundai i20 and my annual road tax is €115. Would much prefer to pay €20 though.
> :eyebrows:


My neighbour has an old Vauxhall Astra estate (portuguese car) and he says it costs him 18 euros for road tax. His Nissan which is 1800cc which he matriculated costs him the maximum which I believe is around 250 euros. He was told at the post office that any foreign matriculated car is the maximum road tax price regardless of engine size if you hear or know otherwise please let me know.


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## Mr.Blueskies

spider said:


> My neighbour has an old Vauxhall Astra estate (portuguese car) and he says it costs him 18 euros for road tax. His Nissan which is 1800cc which he matriculated costs him the maximum which I believe is around 250 euros. He was told at the post office that any foreign matriculated car is the maximum road tax price regardless of engine size if you hear or know otherwise please let me know.


 All I know spider is that they charge me €115 to tax my pt 09 Hyundai i20. It seems that old cars are cheaper to tax for some unknown reason ? One would imagine that they should cost more if anything because for one they are less road worthy and would also have much higher emissions. Don't understand this logic to be honest.


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## spider

*Car Tax*



Mr.Blueskies said:


> All I know spider is that they charge me €115 to tax my pt 09 Hyundai i20. It seems that old cars are cheaper to tax for some unknown reason ? One would imagine that they should cost more if anything because for one they are less road worthy and would also have much higher emissions. Don't understand this logic to be honest.


I totally agree but I have just spoken to him and he said it was something to do with how old the car was. I just think they are trying to hit foreigners whenever they can. Are you finding insurance expensive for foreign registered cars regardless of age or make ?


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## Mr.Blueskies

spider said:


> I totally agree but I have just spoken to him and he said it was something to do with how old the car was. I just think they are trying to hit foreigners whenever they can. Are you finding insurance expensive for foreign registered cars regardless of age or make ?



I have never insured a foreign car here spider so I can't say. When I was reading about the matriculation process and next realising that my right hand drive car would not only be less than ideal to drive here but would also have very little resale value I decided to sell it and buy something here. It was nothing special to begin with so there was no emotional attachment. lol


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## Mr.Blueskies

Many do try to take the piss with expats who don't fully understand the pt price for various things and who show any signs of weakiness that they can next exploit ie (confusion and lack of knowledge) and not just with cars. lol


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## omostra06

Mr.Blueskies said:


> All I know spider is that they charge me €115 to tax my pt 09 Hyundai i20. It seems that old cars are cheaper to tax for some unknown reason ? One would imagine that they should cost more if anything because for one they are less road worthy and would also have much higher emissions. Don't understand this logic to be honest.


much the same in the uk, if your car is old enogh you dont pay any road tax, its free!

just to pick up on your point about a rhd drive car, and stepping out into the road, its law in portugal to park your car in the same direction as the traffic flow, so with a uk car you would actually be stepping onto the pavement and not the road, which is a lot safer with the way portuguese drive.


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## Mr.Blueskies

Still a bummer at the road tolls though and especially if it's raining, unless you have a front seat passenger. lol


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## canoeman

As notlongnow says think your budget is reaonable, certainley slightly cheaper for Central Portugal, so original poster at £1000 pm just about ok, a lot depends on the lifestyle you want and a bit depends on where and how income pension etc is paid and exchange rates.
Don't underestimate the cost of friends and family who suddendly descend on you, and treat you as a hotel, they might not mean too but they do! You'll save yourselves a lot of money and problems by laying down a few groundrules.
Just to pick up on spiders posts on cars.
You can only keep a UK plated car in Portugal for 183 days in any 12 month period.
If you meet the criteria when you move then you could bring your car, and matriculate it very cheaply, but road tax would be charged as if it was a new car and not the actual age of car. 
If you don't meet the criteria and have to pay ISV the cost depends on car, co2 etc, it can be extremly reasonable or a fortune.


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## Frank Wilson

To be fair a lot of people who earn minimum wage live on £1000.00 a month in the UK. I suppose if you are used to living on a low income in the UK it would just be a matter of transferring that earned skill to a new location.

We are due to come out in two years, property in Portugal is all paid for, and our budget would be around the 1000 Euros a month. I envisage that to be an existance budget not a "living" budget, i.e. we will not have a lot of luxeries.


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## Mr.Blueskies

Frank Wilson said:


> To be fair a lot of people who earn minimum wage live on £1000.00 a month in the UK. I suppose if you are used to living on a low income in the UK it would just be a matter of transferring that earned skill to a new location.
> 
> We are due to come out in two years, property in Portugal is all paid for, and our budget would be around the 1000 Euros a month. I envisage that to be an existance budget not a "living" budget, i.e. we will not have a lot of luxeries.



Is this a budget for two people to live on Frank, ie a couple ? A lot would depend on how good one is at managing money and keeping to a budget. Some are quite good and can do a lot with very little, while others are totally clueless. If one is sensible and the other clueless, well err the sensible one obviously needs to keep full control of the purse strings. lol Because of the better climate here there are some savings to be had on heating (shorter winter) and also on lighting. The electric cloths drier should be unnecessary for 7-8 months of the year. lol Grocery shopping is less expensive so there are some savings to be had. Big savings also for those who like to drink and smoke. Lot's arrange to use appliances that are heavy on electric consumption off peak and after 9pm which is half the daily rate. Lot's of little things really which when combined can next make a differance.


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## Deancaz

flashfolly said:


> I've spent some time over the last few days gathering as much information as I can, from this thread, this forum, elsewhere and from people who've already done a lot of work on this, to establish a budget that is realistic for becoming resident and living on the Algarve. Here's what I've come up with, and I'm happy for people to challenge any aspect of it because all suggestions are welcome.
> 
> Based on us buying outright a 2-bedroom house, in euros these are monthly costs:
> 
> 400 food
> 200 drinks (hope this doesn't indicate we have a problem!)
> 200 eating out
> 120 tennis court fees (v. important) and other classes
> 20 annual car service
> 33 car insurance
> 100 diesel
> 60 electricity
> 20 gas
> 35 water/drainage
> 10 wood for the stove in winter
> 100 local council tax
> 30 phone
> 30 broadband
> 15 house insurance
> 30 vitamin supplements for ageing joints!
> 30 hair cuts!
> 30 dog food
> 30 buying clothers/shoes
> 100 medical contingency
> 
> I've tried to think of everything, and erred on the side of the cautious, but just over 1600 euros a month is very do-able from our point of view.
> 
> Please fire away!
> 
> Nick


thanks for that reply , VERY DETAILED , thankyou


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## Deancaz

Frank Wilson said:


> To be fair a lot of people who earn minimum wage live on £1000.00 a month in the UK. I suppose if you are used to living on a low income in the UK it would just be a matter of transferring that earned skill to a new location.
> 
> We are due to come out in two years, property in Portugal is all paid for, and our budget would be around the 1000 Euros a month. I envisage that to be an existance budget not a "living" budget, i.e. we will not have a lot of luxeries.


Hi frank
Yes we do agree, but we are not making the move for luxury we are making
it for a simpler way of life,
PS, good luck with your move.
Dean


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