# Cash Machines (Automatic tellers etc.)



## Slackrat (Apr 30, 2013)

Has anyone today (Monday, 28 April, 2014) attempted to get cash from a 
Portuguese cash machine using a foreign bank card?

It looks like a no-go

You get a "Service Not Available" message.

But the real kicker is that the amounts have been deducted from your home bank account

What a mess.


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## notlongnow (May 21, 2009)

There was talk yesterday that Portuguese phone topups were not working and that there were some problems with the multibanco network.


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## Slackrat (Apr 30, 2013)

notlongnow said:


> There was talk yesterday that Portuguese phone topups were not working and that there were some problems with the multibanco network.


Well I put a squib up their rear end

I want my 1000 CAD back pronto

.[QUOTiNG]
To: [email protected]

Yesterday, April 28, 2014, I attempted to withdraw 200 euros on three different occasions at three different Multibanco cash machines at three different banks or financial institutions.

On each occasion I was advised by a messaage on the cash machine that
"Service Not Available" and I received no money.

Notwithstanding this, upon checking my bank account via the internet I found that on each of the three occasions, the Canadian equivalent of 200 euros (313.48 CAD) had been withdrawn from my account as per the attached screengrab of my account at the ScotiaBank (Bank of Nova Scotia, Main and Danforth, Toronto, Canada)

Please be advised that should the funds, plus the 15 CAD service charges not be returned to my account forthwith I shall consider that I have been defrauded and request the Polícia Judiciária to investigate the matter.

I have already registered a complaint with the Scotiabank
.
Govern yourself accordingly

William E. Henderson 
.[/QUOTING]


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## canoeman (Mar 3, 2011)

Is your complaint with SIBS or each bank you tried to withdraw from? my understanding is that even stand alone machines belong to a "bank" and the SIBS, MB is the link across all services.

I'd visit at least one of banks/machine in question and ask, so your complaint goes to the correct place and gets dealt with.

Hope you get a speedy responce


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## paramonte (Sep 9, 2007)

As we may loose internet connection, also ATM machines may loose full connection to the bank servers

In these rare occasions when the ATM machine can not enter in your bank account (but recognise you as a legit card holder) the system is left in a awkward position: should it serve your money request or not? This is a sort of a philosophical question that the system managers have to decide about. 

If the machine does not serve your request, that´s not a good service, however the ATM is unable to determine if you have enough funds in your bank account to serve your request. So the system will give you the benefit of the doubt and will give you the money, and as soon the connection is full again it will update your bank account. In over 30 years of a ATM user this happened to me once.

As for the foreigners cards, in this situation, if connection with the host foreigner bank is not full the system will draw money from the PT account associated, and I believe you agreed with this procedure in the small print of your account contract, either that or no money...


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## canoeman (Mar 3, 2011)

If i enter a UK Card in a Multibanco it accesses my UK A/c as that card is not associated in anyway with a Portuguese Bank A/c, if multibanco can't make a connection then withdrawal refused, never had same situation as Slackrat but nor do I make a habit of withdrawing UK funds via Multibanco here


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## grandwazoo (Apr 12, 2011)

I use my UK debit cards regularly (more than weekly) - I've occasionally had the 'service not available' message, but never had my account debited when that's happened.


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## paramonte (Sep 9, 2007)

I have to apologize Slackrat, only now I realized that money has been taken from his account without him getting any at cashpoint.

That is not regular by all means, hope he gets the money back soon.


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## canoeman (Mar 3, 2011)

paramonte said:


> I have to apologize Slackrat, only now I realized that money has been taken from his account without him getting any at cashpoint.
> 
> That is not regular by all means, hope he gets the money back soon.


Who would you go to in this situation the bank of the Multibanco or the MB Net?


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## paramonte (Sep 9, 2007)

The bank immediately.

Something has gone pretty wrong, and they are the ones to interface with SIBS, not the costumer.


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## siobhanwf (Mar 20, 2009)

It seems that Multibanco was down in all areas on Monday


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## canoeman (Mar 3, 2011)

Thanks paramonte There you go Slackrat contact each cash machine operator ASAP


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## JohnBoy (Oct 25, 2009)

My GF is an ex bank manager and confirms that you should go to the bank immediately. The money will be there sitting inside the machine. The banks will not have been able to balance their books that day as they would have more money than they should. They might actually be pleased to see you.


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## Slackrat (Apr 30, 2013)

paramonte said:


> The bank immediately.
> 
> Something has gone pretty wrong, and they are the ones to interface with SIBS, not the costumer.


Unbelievable 

From Barclays: "Perhaps because it was Sunday yesterday"

BancoBIC: "Machines are working perfectly".

Millennium: "That's news to us".

Interestingly, I got a reply from a "NoReplyTo" address to an email sent to SIBS/Multibanco (before they started bouncing email and not answering their telephones) -- ParaPhrased "Get Lost"

I haven't noticed any mention of the situation in the News Media, but some non mainstream channels are reporting major problems.


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## JohnBoy (Oct 25, 2009)

No wonder you're incredulous.

My GF is asking if you have checked your Canadian statement again to see if the charges have been reversed. From her experience at Millennium, she says that if the money was not at the bank she would have expected the amount to have been repaid to your statement.

Failing that, if I was in your shoes I would be straight back to each bank and making an entry in the Complaints Book.

Best of luck.


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## Slackrat (Apr 30, 2013)

JohnBoy said:


> No wonder you're incredulous.
> 
> if I was in your shoes I would be straight back to each bank and making an entry in the Complaints Book.
> 
> Best of luck.


Thanks for your advice. But without wanting to be overly critical, ATMs (Cash Machines, Cashpoints, DABs, etc.) may most often be physically located in or outside a bank or financial institution, but this is purely a matter of convenience; they are found in supermarkets and grocery stores too.

ATMs are managed by the Multibanco/SIBS conglomerate and/or their subcontractors, not by the local bank branch or any other entity where they might be located.

And whilst an entry in a Complaints Book might provide some personal satisfaction, overall it won't achieve anything.

Incidentally, my research into the problem indicates that this glitch has occurred sporadically for several months now.

However, this latest problem is endemic and of truly Gargantuan proportions. SOD's Law in action presumably.

Hopefully the matter is resolved more speedily than a similar one in Greece. 
[QUOTING]
We had a problem in Greece last year - but got a receipt and no money from the ATM (on a Saturday - bank closed). On Monday we went to the Greek bank and made a paper report, also filed a dispute with our USA bank. *In 4-5 months the money was returned *to our account.


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## canoeman (Mar 3, 2011)

I don't believe your right Slackrat, I believe that all ATM's are owned/controlled by a bank regardless of where their situated, and any complaint should be addressed to that bank ASAP and making a formal complaint, by making a formal complant via book the bank must investigate and respond, with banks especially following procedure is important to getting early resolution to any problem.

Sorry but if you're prepared to have accepted the answers from the banks you posted without following up with official complaint as Johnboy advised you'll never get a resolution


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## JohnBoy (Oct 25, 2009)

Regardless of who owns the machines the fact is that they carry the bank's name and in this case are located on their premises. Therefore, the bank should be the first point of contact. The complaints book is not a cosmetic exercise and the proprietor of any business must by law investigate any complaint and report directly back to the complainant. 

You overlooked my question regarding your bank statement. Have you actually checked to see if the original charges have been reversed? It would be useful to all of us to know the full details of this apparent failure of the system.


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## notlongnow (May 21, 2009)

It's just occurred to me that a similar thing happened to me with some machines in Holland (many years ago) - the money eventually got credited back.


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## VinhoVerde (May 2, 2014)

I was reading this thread with interest, not realizing until just now, when I checked my Visa account transactions, that the same thing happened to me. On Monday 28 April I tried to withdraw E200 from a Multibanco in the Tabua Intermarche but got the 'service not available' message with no cash dispensed. I thought, at the time, that I was trying to withdraw more cash than the machine had available to dispense, so I decided to try again a day or two later.

What is very clear now is that the service was available to the bank, they had no problem debiting my Visa account, but it was not available to me. 

I will see tomorrow what sort of a runaround I get. I also sent a message to my Canadian bank to inquire about the action to take next. Does anyone know what sort of documentation one should try to obtain (from Intermarche no less!)?

What a pain!


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## VinhoVerde (May 2, 2014)

I am happy to report that my Canadian Visa account now has been credited with the amount (of cash) not dispensed. Unfortunately, the transactions were not reversed, thus I have incurred unnecessary transaction fees and interest charges. 

Hopefully Slackrat's account is now in order too.


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## canoeman (Mar 3, 2011)

Then you should reclaim those fees from the ATM provider you used, good luck, but an ideal case of the Complaints Book if bank dilly dally.
You can complete in English and show proof of what's happened and ideally a statement from your Canadian Bank saying refunding incurred fees and expenses is not their responsibility, you might also have a case with the Visa element of card you used.


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## VinhoVerde (May 2, 2014)

Thanks for the help!


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## Slackrat (Apr 30, 2013)

canoeman said:


> I don't believe your right Slackrat,


Having researched the problem again, the official procedure is to notify your own bank.


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## canoeman (Mar 3, 2011)

If your going to quote at least quote in context

Well not with my UK Banks although once I was aware that money had been debited as happened to you then I should notify them, if I hadn't of course notified owners of ATM's in question as well I wouldn't have much of a case for reimbursement


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## athenrycanadian (Sep 1, 2009)

Hi Slackrat,

The exact same thing happened to me on the same date. I called my bank in Canada immediately and they are working on it. It can take up to 55 days for a refund. The same thing happened to a friend here with his Portuguese Bank card but the amount wasn't debited from his account. He checked with his bank and they told him there were problems nation wide.


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## canoeman (Mar 3, 2011)

For my UK Cards, just received a replacement one today, it states in accompanying information, any issues to contact seller or bank in 1st instance, then if they don't resolve to contact UK Card issuer, might of course be different for Canadian Cards


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## grandwazoo (Apr 12, 2011)

Trouble is of course, with ATMs in the street or in a supermarket, you've no idea who or where the bank is.


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## paramonte (Sep 9, 2007)

The bank is always the bank that issued your atm card, different cards, different banks


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## canoeman (Mar 3, 2011)

Think we all realise that, what slackrat's post has highlighted that certain ATM not all don't have any information as which bank is responsible for these ATM's not located at a bank, my local Lidl's as an example doesn't have any apparent signs but the screen is Santander so would Santander be the bank to go to if the machine hadn't as in Slackrats case not dispensed money but debited his account


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## paramonte (Sep 9, 2007)

Consulted a friend of mine that is a banker:

Unlike some other EU countries where each bank has its owns ATM´s 

Multibanco system is owned by SIBS, not the banks

Banks pay SIBS.

The costumers always refer to her banks in case of trouble, not SIBS.

The Multibanco is very advanced, supposedly the most advanced in EU, with more than 60 functionalities


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