# positives of living in Britain



## jojo

I suspect this isnt going to be a busy thread, but does anyone have anything that can be seen as positive about moving back to Britain?? Since that's what I'm faced with

My list so far:

*Language,
*Knowledge of the SS/legal systems, way of life and the way things work etc
*Being close to family and friends again
*Road systems are clearer and better
*central heating, carpets, cosy houses etc
*not so many mozzies

Can anyone add anything please???????

Jo xxx


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## Guest

jojo said:


> *Road systems are clearer and better


 maybe if you live out in the back of beyond! Every time I go back to the UK I seem to spend most of my life stuck in traffic jams and roadworks!


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## jojo

ShinyAndy said:


> maybe if you live out in the back of beyond! Every time I go back to the UK I seem to spend most of my life stuck in traffic jams and roadworks!


True!!!!! However, what I mean is that I've found, inspite of the jams, the UK roads are better, the road signs are clearer, cats eyes, clearer road markings, verges are safer, in the main they're better maintained......


Jo xxx


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## Guest

LOL I think better might be the wrong word! Maybe you only notice these things because while you´re sat in endless traffic jams surrounded by endless cars you get a chance to see all these things!


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## Stravinsky

Jo, as you know I have a place back there and I go back relatively regularly

Time and time again I see people running the UK down for one reason or another, and telling people what a [email protected] hole it has become.

But at the end of the day I dont see it. I agree the traffic is much worse than we ever experience here. I agree that the nany state does your head in. I agree that the weather can be horrible

However, I still rate it as a beautiful country and I miss travelling around it seeing the different areas. I never moved here with the thought that we would never go back ... we may well do one day. I didnt move here to escape anything either, so I'm not hampered with that.

So I wouldnt worry about what you read. You will be with your family ... and you can always come back here on holiday or even for a couple of month rental if you really feel the need


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## lynn

Positives of the UK:
1. Cricket (suspect this doesn't float your boat though Jo)
2. Being able to walk the dog any time you like, rather than having to either get up at dawn or wait till midnight during the summer because of the heat.
3. Less annoying insects
4. Tescos own brand yeast extract (doesn't float my boat either, but the rest of the crew are mad on it!!)
5. SHOPPING... oh the joy the british high street for value and choice, never mind internet shopping and ebay...
6. Fantastic state education (and you don't have to pay for the books!)
7. Unless you are super rich, or delusional, no swimming pool to have to clean/vacuum/stress over
8. Unlikely to get trapped in house because of raging torrent over driveway (unless you really live in the sticks somewhere??) Not applicable to your destination I know.
9. No commuting OH. No airport runs. No volcanic ash/ cancellations/ delays etc etc....

Now that is nine good reasons off the top of my head. Just keep reminding yourself of the horror we had this winter, and the UK will seem really appealing


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## NorthernLass

We are moving back to the UK soon. 

My main positives for moving back is :

1) My eldest 11 will be happier. She´ll have English speaking friends, schooling is in English with a better and more interesting curriculum.

2) All my children will have a British upbringing. No identity confusion. 

3) I have struggled with the language and have no real friends here. I get to see my friends and family more.

4) I can work and earn some money for our pensions and kids future.

5) We understand everything that is going on. 

I AM SO EXCITED .............................:clap2:

I´ve enjoyed Spain to a point, but happier to move back and enjoy what the UK offers. I appreciate what I had and my family so much more....


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## Seb*

SHOPPING!

You just cant beat a big tesco 24h superstore. I love spain, but we have lived the last 4 years in London and Lakeside shopping centre is just heaven compared to anything spanish. Same for the choice on electronics.

And as Strav said, I don´t understand all the people talking down the UK. I enjoyed my years in England a lot and compared to Germany it´s just great in most aspects. Spain has a lot of sun, the med and low living costs, but I would never glorify it over the UK.


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## Guest

Seb* said:


> Spain has a lot of sun, the med and low living costs, but I would never glorify it over the UK.


Inevitable I know, but given the nature of the thread and it being on a forum about moving abroad, but I would! Many of the reasons posted above are the reasons that most people move here in the first place.. and lets face it we´re great at justifying our reasons for doing anything

Personally I can´t stand the UK, I can get everything I want by being sensible and choosing not to live in the middle of nowhere.


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## dunmovin

real fish & chips


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## thrax

Green, rolling fields and the occasional decent pub with no louts. But since I hate shopping with a passion I will not miss Tescos and the really bad vegetables (they go off before you get home) they sell (oh and the BOGOF deals so they can get rid of stock that isn't selling - I used to work for one of the main stores and I know how they do things).


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## jojo

One thing I wont miss in Spain is my Spanish Neighbour!! Us brits call him "fatboy slim" he lives on his own in a converted water deposit and he likes to sing and play his Flamenco guitar!! AND HE'S USELESS AND VERY LOUD AND HE HAS BEEN AT IT ALL BLOODY MORNING!!!!!!!! At one point I thought maybe he was injured and calling out for help LOL


Jo xxx


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## jojo

......... actually I will miss him, even tho he has trouble hitting the right note, its typically Spanish

Jo xxx


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## country boy

I have to say that I cannot think of one good reason for moving back to the UK apart from "Force Mejor". 
Having said that, if circumstances dictate that it has to be so, just get on with it and make the best of it. Coming from a military family one has got used to moving around, everywhere is just "somewhere to live", some places are better than others! The choices come when you are retired...which we are....aaaah...purrrrfick!


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## fourgotospain

Hopefully happier daughter??? No doubt she start citing some other reason for why her life sucks but at least you will be guilt free!

Sorry to hear you're moving back - that's 4 people I 'know', is it something about us??!!!


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## jojo

fourgotospain said:


> Hopefully happier daughter??? No doubt she start citing some other reason for why her life sucks but at least you will be guilt free!


You obviously know teenagers lol!!! Rubys life now sucks cos we're going back to the UK just when she'd started liking Spain! AAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHH

Jo xxxx


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## jimenato

I'm now in England for my first summer visit for 8 years, I've only been back in winter before now. It is much better in summer and in fact I'm loving it - particularly the stunning beauty of Somerset at this time of year.

The main thing that I dislike about England is how much money you need to have a good life - you don't need anywhere near as much in Spain in my experience. 

Therefore one of the good things for you, jojo, must be that your OH has a lucrative new contract. If something like that happened to me I might even think about it...


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## gus-lopez

I'm sorry but even if I was offered a million pounds a week wages, I personally wouldn't go back . The wife would probably insist that I went & did a weeks work though. lol. I miss the scenery in Devon & Somerset but as jimenato said if I could live there for what it cost me here I might possibly consider it but that will never happen. If I was forced to leave here then it would be a motorhome & permanently travelling.


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## xabiaxica

fourgotospain said:


> Hopefully happier daughter??? No doubt she start citing some other reason for why her life sucks but at least you will be guilt free!
> 
> Sorry to hear you're moving back - that's 4 people I 'know', is it something about us??!!!


you'll get used to that

so many have gone since we've been here that soon Javea will be Spanish again!!


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## 90199

I live in the capital city, Valverde, population 4,300. Everything is to hand and within walking distance.

The only things I miss are,

1 B&Q type stores
2 Bacon
3 Pork Pies
4 Pasties from Cornwall
5 English Sausages
6 Proper tea bags
7 You might not believe this, some nice steady rain to save me watering and to fill the aljibes

I rarely return to the U.K., because we are residents, we get internal flights at half price, we are off to Asturias next month, Gijon,

Hepa


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## Caz.I

Positives of living in UK:

1.	The variety of shopping, particularly food and clothing.
2.	The quality of clothing, shoes etc.
3.	Cheaper electronic goods.
4.	Shoppping cannot be emphasized enough.
5.	Therefore, M&S, Asda, Tesco, Primark.
6.	Not struggling with the language barrier and so talking freely to anyone.
7.	Good, customer service (OK I now it can be a bit hit and miss in UK but in general still better.)
8.	More people who take action to fight injustice rather than shrug their shoulders powerlessly.
9.	More opportunities for kids in terms of university/college/careers in long term.
10.	Cutting edge fashion/music and more (and better) concerts, shows etc.
11.	Better TV.
12.	Higher salaries so you can afford 2 or 3 foreign holidays a year when you need a break (and you can enjoy the sun much more when you don’t take it for granted).
13.	Reliable postal service which means you don’t often lose or have customs destroy valuable items in post. If you do, you can claim it back.
14.	….and therefore online shopping easier as they will definitely deliver to the UK.
15. A green environment

Also, I wanted to say that, in the 7 years I have lived here, I have seen very few stay here for good, with the exception of those with Spanish partners/families and a few others. Even many retirees return through loneliness when their partner dies, or to be nearer their grandkids, or to have access to healthcare in their own language. I am in fact very cynical about the idea that most expats will live out their remaining years here: I think it is a very tiny proportion of the number of people who come here who will remain.

As I have said before, I doubt if I will stay here forever and may actually be moving somewhere else next year too, at least for a while, in order to return to full-time study.


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## giritana

Hi all - I'm a new member, tho' have browsed many times previously, so thanks for all the very useful info! I've lived in Cadiz for 18 months, so far, and hope to be here much longer. Previously, I lived in Asturias for 4 years and loved it, too. 
I do miss some aspects of life in the U.K, but have to say that my life here suits me much more. I'm virtually nocturnal and love being able to go out for a meal at 11p.m. and still get served! I'm from London but have lived for many years in both the North and in the South West. Outside of the bigger cities, I've had trouble ordering food in pubs and restaurants after 8.30p.m. even in tourist resorts! 
Here, I love strolling round Cadiz at night when everything's still open, with lively groups of all ages out having fun, but no drunken yobs and no crime to speak of! Most musical events here start at 10 or 11p.m! Families are still out till well after midnight having fun - I recall empty streets in all my former UK towns once shops closed. The Cadiz locals are incredibly friendly and helpful, just as were the Asturianos - can't say foreign visitors always received the same level of hospitality where I lived in the U.K. 
I marvel at nightly rubbish collections - fortnightly, only, in my English town, with huge Council tax bills, to boot! I prefer theSpanish system of communal bins - my sister's garden in London now hosts the required 3 individual wheelie bins, each for a specific type of rubbish.
But, on a different point, I do miss the great RSPCA - I detest animal cruelty, in all its forms and know, at first hand, how difficult it can be to try to help animals in serious distress here, with virtually no support from the Spanish police and indifference on the part of most Spaniards! Abandoned pets seem to be dependent on animal shelters set up by expats using funds generated from within their own circles! 
I am also proud we have stronger hygiene laws in the UK which seek to protect us, as customers - here in Cadiz, raw and cooked meats are on display in many shops and restaurants side by side, with the real risk of contamination and disease. Hot water is unheard of in most commercial kitchens and toilets - in the latter, also used by the staff, soap, loo paper and hand towels are also often missing! Having worked in pub kitchens and restaurants at home, I know how stringently food hygiene practices are now regulated - I approve of that - food poisoning can be dangerous and is rarely a joke! 
Also, I can't wait for the smoking ban to become law here, so I can give up my dreadful passive smoking habit - and I won;t miss my eyes smarting and my hair stinking, each time I visit a Spanish bar! 
I miss centrally heated houses, pubs and shops in Winter! In Cadiz homes aren't geared up for the damp cold weather - they're designed to let the Summer heat out! No heating in bars and shops either - often colder indoors than in the street during the thankfully short Winter period! 
But, right now, it's fantastic here in SW Spain - really hot sunny days and warm nights, hopefully till October or even later. The Cadiz beaches are stunning! Hope I'm being clear, Jo Jo - in reality, both countries have lots in favour as well as some negative aspects - so, try to see your move back to the UK as a positive one for now - supporting your OH and family, but with the option to return in the future, with Spanish holidays, hopefully, to keep you going, meantime! GOOD LUCK to you and your family - vaya bien!


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## thrax

Welcome tot he forum Giritana!! What an excellent first post which pretty much sums up my own feelings. You're not the long lost twin I never had, are you?


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## Guest

Caz.I said:


> Positives of living in UK:
> 
> 1.	The variety of shopping, particularly food and clothing.
> 2.	The quality of clothing, shoes etc.
> 3.	Cheaper electronic goods.
> 4.	Shoppping cannot be emphasized enough.
> 5.	Therefore, M&S, Asda, Tesco, Primark.
> 6.	Not struggling with the language barrier and so talking freely to anyone.
> 7.	Good, customer service (OK I now it can be a bit hit and miss in UK but in general still better.)
> 8.	More people who take action to fight injustice rather than shrug their shoulders powerlessly.
> 9.	More opportunities for kids in terms of university/college/careers in long term.
> 10.	Cutting edge fashion/music and more (and better) concerts, shows etc.
> 11.	Better TV.
> 12.	Higher salaries so you can afford 2 or 3 foreign holidays a year when you need a break (and you can enjoy the sun much more when you don’t take it for granted).
> 13.	Reliable postal service which means you don’t often lose or have customs destroy valuable items in post. If you do, you can claim it back.
> 14.	….and therefore online shopping easier as they will definitely deliver to the UK.
> 15. A green environment


I really don´t understand this post given you live in Fuengirola!

La Cañada is 15 minutes away from you and has a huge selection of clothing stores (even your beloved M&S). Gibraltar is only an hour away so you can stock up on bacon, sausages, Mr Kipling cakes, etc, etc

Spain is a world leader in terms of retail fashion

I buy all my computer parts from Spain (cheaper than the UK), my TV was 100€ cheaper in Spain than the UK

I´ve struggled more to understand people in London (most service staff seem to be Eastern European now). Everywhere I´ve been and everything I´ve ever had to do in Spanish has always been tough because it´s not my mother tongue but the people have always been polite, paitient and helpful

Customer Service doesn´t exist in England (mainly because they don´t understand you and you don´t understand them)

Salaries may be higher but disposible income is more important - I earn roughly the same as I did in the UK now but I have at least 75% of my income to do what I want with

I order things every week from all over Europe, nothing has ever gone missing or been late. I send things to the UK often too, again nothing has ever gone missing or been late


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## jojo

ShinyAndy said:


> I buy all my computer parts from Spain (cheaper than the UK), my TV was 100€ cheaper in Spain than the UK



I totally agree with everything you said - apart from this!!!!!!! My husbands hobby, well not hobby but something he enjoys doing  (he's such fun lol) is going to TV/hifi/computer shops in Spain comparing prices - he has a similar shop/multi media business in the UK and he would say that on average, prices in Spain are at least 15% dearer??????

Jo xxx


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## Guest

I´ve never bought anything like that from a shop in the UK so wouldn´t in Spain, everything is online (shops are obviously going to be more expensive anyway due to overheads)


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## jojo

ShinyAndy said:


> I´ve never bought anything like that from a shop in the UK so wouldn´t in Spain, everything is online (shops are obviously going to be more expensive anyway due to overheads)


He sells TVs which you said were cheaper in Spain???? He does a lot of internet buying and selling and actually sells a fair bit to the eurozone due to the pound at present - apart from that I know nothing!!! I just follow him around the aforementioned shops and say yes dear, no dear in the right places!!!!

Jo xxxx


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## Guest

Yup, my TV was 100€ cheaper than I could buy it online or in a shop in the UK. Note that I probably wasted a week scouring the internet to make sure I got the best deal though


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## nigele2

ShinyAndy said:


> I´ve never bought anything like that from a shop in the UK so wouldn´t in Spain, everything is online (shops are obviously going to be more expensive anyway due to overheads)


But the comparison is still valid. But if you're buying online surely it doesn't matter if you have confidence in Correos or spanish couriers?


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## Caz.I

ShinyAndy said:


> I really don´t understand this post given you live in Fuengirola!
> 
> La Cañada is 15 minutes away from you and has a huge selection of clothing stores (even your beloved M&S). Gibraltar is only an hour away so you can stock up on bacon, sausages, Mr Kipling cakes, etc, etc
> 
> Spain is a world leader in terms of retail fashion
> 
> I buy all my computer parts from Spain (cheaper than the UK), my TV was 100€ cheaper in Spain than the UK
> 
> I´ve struggled more to understand people in London (most service staff seem to be Eastern European now). Everywhere I´ve been and everything I´ve ever had to do in Spanish has always been tough because it´s not my mother tongue but the people have always been polite, paitient and helpful
> 
> Customer Service doesn´t exist in England (mainly because they don´t understand you and you don´t understand them)
> 
> Salaries may be higher but disposible income is more important - I earn roughly the same as I did in the UK now but I have at least 75% of my income to do what I want with
> 
> I order things every week from all over Europe, nothing has ever gone missing or been late. I send things to the UK often too, again nothing has ever gone missing or been late


OK, Andy, to spell it out more clearly: Don't have car so La Canada, Gibraltar is a bit of a shlep, and the M&S there isnt that big so only has a fairly narrow range of things anyway and the prices, even when taking account of currency conversion, seem to be substantially more than UK prices. Mind you, I am not that desperate that I would really bother with regular trips there even if I had a car.

Generally, I find that the quality of clothing here is inferior compared to the UK, particularly kids trainers! Dont get me started on that one. And I do find that in general, the clothing here is behind in terms of up to the minute fashion. 

Yes there are shops selling British foods here, (though the nearest one to me closed down last week) but I dont buy that many things there anyway as they are more expensive and I dont crave anything in particular. My post was not to highlight things I desperately miss, the point of it was to show that there are positives in the UK.

I lived in London 20 years never had any problem with understanding people and I lived in Brent, the most multi cultural borough in Greater London. My point was that the language barrier in the UK doesnt usually exist for native speakers!

By customer service, in general, i do think it is better, yes I know in the banking world particularly in the UK, contracts have been farmed out to countries overseas, but I find when dealing with internet/telecommunications companies and shops here, the customer service is very poor, and the general attitude is the customer is always wrong or just total indifference (regardless of whether done in Spanish or English). (I am sure if Steve H was about he would back me up on this one). At least in the UK they usually pretend to care! Please let me know the names of the companies with helpful customer service here I would love to know some! (The 2 banks I use now are OK(ish) but have dealt with many with no understanding of the concept of customer service.) PM me if you cant "advertise".

Dont trade in computer parts, so cant compare, but generally, I have found electronic items cheaper in the UK - eg. at Christmas portable CD player cost me 15 quid there, most cost about 30-40 euros or more here. Maybe you got your TV at crisis price!

You might have been ok with the postal service, but as with many things here, it does vary from town to town with a rating from good to abysmal. In my first month here I had an item sent by Royal Mail (which was insured), opened and damaged beyond repair by customs, then another parcel of books totally disappeared. Some online companies use Correos so therefore not always 100% reliable. (this is common knowledge) Letters here in my area tend to appear in bundles, every other week, rather than in trickles, so seems to show that deliveries are not that regular.

By the way, I think you are in the minority with a high disposable income in Spain lol. I agree to a certain extent that there is a good, quality of life, but again I reiterate that I was trying to point out the positives for the sake of people going back who might not be too happy about it.  It wasnt about another Spain versus UK debate. There are positive and negatives everywhere and what suits one person doesnt suit another. In general, the longer people stay here they will see both sides and make the decision on what is best for them.

Hope this clears things up.


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## Maundler

I have to agree with some of the points Caz.I is making.... from his list:

Positives of living in UK:

1.	The variety of shopping, particularly food and clothing. *Won't agree here, I would agree on the quality of Shopping Centers, but variety isn't a problem in Spain, at least I don't think so.*
2.	The quality of clothing, shoes etc. *This depends on the brand of clothes, I tend to say that Zara/Pull&Bear, etc. are of poor quality but at the same time its pretty cheap, other brands are good enough.*
3.	Cheaper electronic goods. *Very true!!! All electronics are cheaper in the UK than in Spain, and I do can say that computer parts, video, photography, anyway, all electronic are cheaper in the UK. And I always do a thorough research about the product I am going to buy, from reviews to prices all over Germany/UK/Spain.*
4.	Shoppping cannot be emphasized enough.* Shopping Malls would be the point her*
5.	Therefore, M&S, Asda, Tesco, Primark. *TRUE on this point.*
6.	Not struggling with the language barrier and so talking freely to anyone. *This is true, specially if you are talking about Spain the OFFICIAL-NON-ENGLISH-SPEAKING-COUNTRY of the world!! LOL*
7.	Good, customer service (OK I now it can be a bit hit and miss in UK but in general still better.) *I have to definitely AGREE with this, when it comes to service in restaurants, shops, etc. Spaniards don't know the meaning of "service"*
8.	More people who take action to fight injustice rather than shrug their shoulders powerlessly. *AGREE 100%, I wouldn't trust a spaniard to change the way things work around their country. Besides they always feel they have the RIGHT to do something or to get something. And I have to say that for a spaniard, if you lose your job, the government has the duty to search one for you, they won't move a toe to find it, if house prices are rising, it is the government job to lower those prices, they have the right to all these things but they don't do anything to get any right or do anything. I am generalizing, obviously not every spaniard is like this, but a lot are. If we were to trust the spaniards to get us out of the economic crisis I would think we would never get out of this situation. LOL.*
9.	More opportunities for kids in terms of university/college/careers in long term. *Agree 100%, english language classes or any other language for that matter is non-existent, educational-wise it is not "bad" but it is certainly not as good as the UK, Germany, France, Norway, Switzerland, Finland, Denmark, etc. so I would definitely like my kids to grow up in UK rather than Spain, besides, moral values and other aspects here in Spain, specially for the young ones are really bad.*
10.	Cutting edge fashion/music and more (and better) concerts, shows etc. *Depends where you live, if you live in Madrid or Barcelona, then you are ok, you got plenty of shows, concerts and activities, IF YOU LIVE ANYWHERE ELSE, then you are right, no one important goes to any other place but Madrid or Barcelona. And I live in Valencia and everytime someone comes to Spain I have to go to Madrid or Barcelona to watch a show or concert. FRUSTRATING ACTUALLY!!*
11.	Better TV. *And I would add radio stations to this point. TV is awful, but radio stations are even worse!! *
12.	Higher salaries so you can afford 2 or 3 foreign holidays a year when you need a break (and you can enjoy the sun much more when you don’t take it for granted). *I would agree but only to skilled persons... salaries are REALLY LOW for skilled persons looking for a managerial positions, unless you know somebody or have pretty good connections, OR be extremely lucky and land a good job. On the other roles I think its even, where in Spain you can earn a low income but can live with it.*
13.	Reliable postal service which means you don’t often lose or have customs destroy valuable items in post. If you do, you can claim it back. *Wouldn't know.*
14.	….and therefore online shopping easier as they will definitely deliver to the UK. *This is true... I find that online shopping is far better in the UK than Spain, and with better prices... I have to say that websites like ebay are far better in the UK than in ebay Spain, not to much variety and spaniards are still not used to sell used products, and there are not that MANY online stores as there are in the UK.*
15. A green environment. *Go to the North of spain and you'll get your green environment! *


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## Pesky Wesky

When I read threads like this I sometimes wonder which Spain and which Britain people are referring to 'cos there are so many things that are mentioned that I just don't know about. I suppose that everyone's experience is different, everyone's outlook is biased and no one knows what _*Spain*_ or _*Britain*_ is like 'cos Liverpool isn't like Bristol the same as Vigo isn't like Estepona.


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## jojo

Pesky Wesky said:


> When I read threads like this I sometimes wonder which Spain and which Britain people are referring to 'cos there are so many things that are mentioned that I just don't know about. I suppose that everyone's experience is different, everyone's outlook is biased and no one knows what _*Spain*_ or _*Britain*_ is like 'cos Liverpool isn't like Bristol the same as Vigo isn't like Estepona.


The voice of reason!!! You're right!

Jo xxx


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## natalieml

It depends where you buy your clothing. I love Zara and have had no issues with anything I have purchased in Spain. In Parque Miramar in Fuengy you have C&A (OK I'm with you on the quality issue here), Dorothy Perkinks, Wallis so you can still get UK fashion clo9thes if you want them.

Supersol in La Cala has almost every UK item of food I could want and I can even purchase Aunty Bessies frozen Yorkshire puddings so I've never had issues with food I want.

Depending on where you lived in Brent - crime is certainly an issue. I was mugged in Brent and dragged down a road for my handbag as it was stuck on my arm when I was 21 so if I'm ever in the area I am always looking over my shoulder. I don't feel that way in Spain. 

With 2 boys I worry about knife/gun crime - yes there is crime in Spain but nowhere near the same level.

Of course there are positives and negatives everywhere you live but there is more issues in the UK than Spain in my opinion. 




Caz.I said:


> OK, Andy, to spell it out more clearly: Don't have car so La Canada, Gibraltar is a bit of a shlep, and the M&S there isnt that big so only has a fairly narrow range of things anyway and the prices, even when taking account of currency conversion, seem to be substantially more than UK prices. Mind you, I am not that desperate that I would really bother with regular trips there even if I had a car.
> 
> Generally, I find that the quality of clothing here is inferior compared to the UK, particularly kids trainers! Dont get me started on that one. And I do find that in general, the clothing here is behind in terms of up to the minute fashion.
> 
> Yes there are shops selling British foods here, (though the nearest one to me closed down last week) but I dont buy that many things there anyway as they are more expensive and I dont crave anything in particular. My post was not to highlight things I desperately miss, the point of it was to show that there are positives in the UK.
> 
> I lived in London 20 years never had any problem with understanding people and I lived in Brent, the most multi cultural borough in Greater London. My point was that the language barrier in the UK doesnt usually exist for native speakers!
> 
> By customer service, in general, i do think it is better, yes I know in the banking world particularly in the UK, contracts have been farmed out to countries overseas, but I find when dealing with internet/telecommunications companies and shops here, the customer service is very poor, and the general attitude is the customer is always wrong or just total indifference (regardless of whether done in Spanish or English). (I am sure if Steve H was about he would back me up on this one). At least in the UK they usually pretend to care! Please let me know the names of the companies with helpful customer service here I would love to know some! (The 2 banks I use now are OK(ish) but have dealt with many with no understanding of the concept of customer service.) PM me if you cant "advertise".
> 
> Dont trade in computer parts, so cant compare, but generally, I have found electronic items cheaper in the UK - eg. at Christmas portable CD player cost me 15 quid there, most cost about 30-40 euros or more here. Maybe you got your TV at crisis price!
> 
> You might have been ok with the postal service, but as with many things here, it does vary from town to town with a rating from good to abysmal. In my first month here I had an item sent by Royal Mail (which was insured), opened and damaged beyond repair by customs, then another parcel of books totally disappeared. Some online companies use Correos so therefore not always 100% reliable. (this is common knowledge) Letters here in my area tend to appear in bundles, every other week, rather than in trickles, so seems to show that deliveries are not that regular.
> 
> By the way, I think you are in the minority with a high disposable income in Spain lol. I agree to a certain extent that there is a good, quality of life, but again I reiterate that I was trying to point out the positives for the sake of people going back who might not be too happy about it.  It wasnt about another Spain versus UK debate. There are positive and negatives everywhere and what suits one person doesnt suit another. In general, the longer people stay here they will see both sides and make the decision on what is best for them.
> 
> Hope this clears things up.


----------



## natalieml

Jo - sorry to see you are leaving to come back just as we are preparing to move over.

I wish you all the best with the move back - keep in touch with us all on the forum


----------



## Caz.I

I think there is a subtle but important issue between highlighting the positives of the UK – as the thread was supposed to be about – and criticising another country. It might seem like splitting hairs but as I keep pointing out, it was about looking at what is positive if you are going to be somewhere you don’t want to be.

I have lived in various places in the UK and in Spain, only in Andalucia, though have visited some other regions. Obviously, everyone’s experience is different. Obviously, some things vary from region to region, province to province and town to town. But there are also positive and negative characteristics of each country, which you recognize when it becomes a common experience for a group of people. (though not always everyone’s of course). But I can only speak from my own experience of 7 years living in Andalucia. Therefore I posted the things I would find positive if _I _was going back to live in the UK.

My aim was not to focus on what is wrong with Spain but some of the good things in the UK but everyone seems to have misunderstood the point of the post.

I am not desperate for British food, or clothes etc but was trying to say that in general I find the quality of clothing better, and slightly more ahead in fashion terms in the UK.
In the UK I also notice, especially as far as food goes, that there is a mind-blowing variety of food and other products available which you don’t get here unless you specifically go out of your way to find them. It’s just not on the same scale. (That doesn’t mean they are all healthy or cheap but that’s a different issue).

I stand by my points on electronic goods, customer service and the postal service (at least in Fuengirola) and the point about justice (as I feel there is a deep rooted sense of powerlessness here, perhaps due to the Franco legacy?). Not that I think there is any dependency culture like the UK, that wasn’t what I meant at all.

Wasn’t saying crime was not a problem in Brent, if you read my post properly I was talking about not having a problem there communicating in my native language, which doesn’t on the whole usually tend to be a big problem if you live in the UK and are from the UK! Of course there are negatives about the UK too - but again the thread is: POSITIVES OF LIVING IN BRITAIN!

As I keep saying, I was trying to highlight the positives of living in the Uk to try to help Jo and others going back reluctantly feel a little bit better about returning to the UK – now beginning to wish I hadn’t bothered!


----------



## Guest

Unfortunately what you´ve highlighted as positives about the UK suggests that you can´t get that in Spain, whereas you can. Your situation is different in that you don´t have a car and so can´t take advantage, the same would apply to you if you lived in the UK and didn´t have a car.

I stick to my guns about electronic & computer goods too.. recently I´ve bought the following:

Dell Mini 10 netbook 
UK price: 329UKP
Spanish price: 289€

Dell Inspiron 1764
UK price: 649UKP
Spanish price: 596€ (inc a pink finish!)

Samsung N210 Netbook
UK price: 329UKP
Spanish price: 289€

ASRock ION330HT
UK price: 320UKP
Spanish price: 300€

Samsung ML-1660 laser printer
UK price: 85UKP
Spanish price: 66€

Riello 800VA UPS
UK price: 51UKP
Spanish price: 46€

Given the current exchange rate it makes it even more expensive in the UK!


----------



## Caz.I

FFS Andy...this is not a competition about who is or isnt right. 

Its about what each of us find positive about the UK. As I said before, computers - no idea you could be right. And maybe you research more thorougly than others do. Other electronic goods I have found cheaper. 

Why does saying something is positive in the UK imply you cant get it here if you search for it? It doesnt imply it. No, I am saying what is readily and widely available and common there is not generally common there. Therefore more difficult or inconvenient to get hold of here without a lot of effort, car or no car.


----------



## natalieml

Oh Andy - I love that you have a PC with a pink finish  lol




ShinyAndy said:


> Unfortunately what you´ve highlighted as positives about the UK suggests that you can´t get that in Spain, whereas you can. Your situation is different in that you don´t have a car and so can´t take advantage, the same would apply to you if you lived in the UK and didn´t have a car.
> 
> I stick to my guns about electronic & computer goods too.. recently I´ve bought the following:
> 
> Dell Mini 10 netbook
> UK price: 329UKP
> Spanish price: 289€
> 
> Dell Inspiron 1764
> UK price: 649UKP
> Spanish price: 596€ (inc a pink finish!)
> 
> Samsung N210 Netbook
> UK price: 329UKP
> Spanish price: 289€
> 
> ASRock ION330HT
> UK price: 320UKP
> Spanish price: 300€
> 
> Samsung ML-1660 laser printer
> UK price: 85UKP
> Spanish price: 66€
> 
> Riello 800VA UPS
> UK price: 51UKP
> Spanish price: 46€
> 
> Given the current exchange rate it makes it even more expensive in the UK!


----------



## Guest

LOL, that´s for clients not me.. who am I to judge their tastes


----------



## natalieml

OK - we all believe you! PMSL

I think your new name should be PinkAndy rather than Shiny Andy - it still falls in with the bald theme too  lol



ShinyAndy said:


> LOL, that´s for clients not me.. who am I to judge their tastes


----------



## Caz.I

Caz.I said:


> FFS Andy...this is not a competition about who is or isnt right.
> 
> Its about what each of us find positive about the UK. As I said before, computers - no idea you could be right. And maybe you research more thorougly than others do. Other electronic goods I have found cheaper.
> 
> Why does saying something is positive in the UK imply you cant get it here if you search for it? It doesnt imply it. No, I am saying what is readily and widely available and common there is not generally common there. Therefore more difficult or inconvenient to get hold of here without a lot of effort, car or no car.


Whoops! Meant "not generally common HERE!"


----------



## Seb*

ShinyAndy said:


> I stick to my guns about electronic & computer goods too.. recently I´ve bought the following:
> 
> Dell Mini 10 netbook
> UK price: 329UKP
> Spanish price: 289€
> 
> Dell Inspiron 1764
> UK price: 649UKP
> Spanish price: 596€ (inc a pink finish!)
> 
> Samsung N210 Netbook
> UK price: 329UKP
> Spanish price: 289€
> 
> ASRock ION330HT
> UK price: 320UKP
> Spanish price: 300€
> 
> Samsung ML-1660 laser printer
> UK price: 85UKP
> Spanish price: 66€
> 
> Riello 800VA UPS
> UK price: 51UKP
> Spanish price: 46€
> 
> Given the current exchange rate it makes it even more expensive in the UK!


It depends YET AGAIN where you buy and what prices you tell us (your mentioned UK prices sound rather steep), you list all those prices but I can undercut several of those via UK companies, like the Dell mini 10xx you can get for under 200 GBP or the Inspiron 1740 you can get for 500 GBP or the ION330HT for 250 GBP.

It comes down where you shop and to what length you want to go (shipping costs, 2 hours car drives etc). Ofcourse the exchange rate at the moment loweres the price difference between spain and the UK (I´m the last to complain).

I think what me and others mean when we talk about the "better shopping" is pure convenience. In the UK you just drive to the next bigger town and get everything straight away. In a lot of spanish areas this is not as easy. Yes you can get nearly everything, it´s just not as readily available. And yeah I am very sorry that not everyone is living in the middle or Marbella or Madrid, Barcelona or Valencia.

For example two weeks ago I needed several components for a PC (motherboard, new powerful PSU, ddr2 memory plus some minor parts). Back in the UK I would have driven 15 minutes to the next PCWorld. Here it took me a whole day to find out where to source those parts as quickly as possible. I ended up with a small PC shop that had to order the parts, total wait time 5 days. Ofc I could have gone to one of the bigger chains in spain, but those are rare, in our case one hour motorway to the next PC City. Other alternative is an order via internet.

Other example, we tried to buy an Ipod 3rd gen some months back, tried all the big hypermarkets and computer shops within 1 hour drive. No chance (only got 2nd gen if at all). Ended up ordering it from the UK, which again wasnt a big deal and arrived within 5 days.

So I agree with you Andy, you get everything you need in spain, it´s just not as easy as in the UK.


----------



## Guest

Those prices were the best I could find online at the time (I spreadsheet all that kind of thing!) Obviously it depends where you live if you´re buying from a shop but generally everything I buy is online so it´s irrelevant. I never need anything the same day so having to wait for next day delivery and it turn up at my doorstep isn´t an issue

Personally, when it comes to buying equipment I don´t find anything harder here than I did in the UK but then I buy online, same as I did in the UK. Just bugs me when it´s made out that Spain is some thirdworld country where everything is suggested to be hard work and expensive!

btw.. Interested to know where you can buy a brand new Dell Mini 10 (as in the Inspiron 1012) for under 200 quid though! Annoyingly if I´d bought it a week earlier I´d have got one for 50€ less as dell.es were doing a special deal


----------



## Xose

Does anyone remember the CD argument in the UK - "Why do music CD's cost $5 in the states and £14+ here?" (I'm using example figueres as it was quite a while back but you get the gist). The answer was, the size of the market. Yes, loads of people said that was rubish but in the end, although from a supply / demand point of view and not simply more people, the market rules.

Now, take a look at a site (INE perhaps) that tells you how many people live where you are. Then do the same for the UK where you lived.

A few thousand people can't support that many currys/dixons/comet etc., etc. But the WEB is for everyone. I've just bouth a white goods item at 589€ and it's on comparative sites in the UK from £580 - can't get closer than that. Also, you have bank transfer facilities here. Plus MUCH more pay on delivery, which I love for web purchases. Ebay's not to good in Spain, it's crap in fact. But there's a huge selection of sites and Ebay isn't everything here as it is in the UK.

As for shopping, I've never seen so much under one roof as I've seen here (and France) on the mega hypermarket floors.... and I've been to bluewater! Parked my car 20 minutes walk away and hoped to remember where I'd parked it and then joined the 10 Million shopping there 
Did that once!!

Primark, C&A and various others offer mainstream clothes shopping. As for the Harvey Nicks - El Corte Ingles - though they have the lower end as well as the guci, mont blanc, louis vuitton etc., etc.

Bottom line, market size dictating number of shops aside, it's here if you want it.

But I do agree on one thing, you do feel a lot more accompanied when you go shopping in the UK (Sorry to be generalistic, I would say Oxford Street etc., but as reflections seem to be country wide, why not?)

One thing I do miss big time, the take away. They just haven't got that suzed here. But then again, numbers I guess. Even Mac healthy sticks to towns of 300K plus or thereabouts.


----------



## mrypg9

My ex-husband had a theory about marriage which went something like this: take any ten men and ten women at random, pair them off again randomly,tell them they are to be partners for life and, he would say, given good will and a give-and-take attitude they could all be reasonably happy.
Sounds daft but not so when you think about the success rate for conventional western marriage (including ours)
I feel like that about most things in life. There are positives and negatives everywhere and in everything we do. Yes, I can see things I prefer in the UK -not that many though to be honest - and we could relocate tomorrow if we felt so inclined but we're in Spain and I haven't found myself making comparisons..
I've spent a lot of time in a lot of different countries like many posters and like them I found good and bad in each one. Admittedly some had more negatives than positives (Canada and the CR) but we moved on.
Not wishing to sound yucky but sometimes how you feel about a place isn't really about that place, it's about you.

I hope all that makes sense, I'm not good at describing this kind of thing.....


----------



## dunmovin

mrypg9 said:


> My ex-husband had a theory about marriage which went something like this: take any ten men and ten women at random, pair them off again randomly,tell them they are to be partners for life and, he would say, given good will and a give-and-take attitude they could all be reasonably happy.
> Sounds daft but not so when you think about the success rate for conventional western marriage (including ours)
> I feel like that about most things in life. There are positives and negatives everywhere and in everything we do. Yes, I can see things I prefer in the UK -not that many though to be honest - and we could relocate tomorrow if we felt so inclined but we're in Spain and I haven't found myself making comparisons..
> I've spent a lot of time in a lot of different countries like many posters and like them I found good and bad in each one. Admittedly some had more negatives than positives (Canada and the CR) but we moved on.
> Not wishing to sound yucky but sometimes how you feel about a place isn't really about that place, it's about you.
> 
> I hope all that makes sense, I'm not good at describing this kind of thing.....


I might be totally off track here but, It's pretty much a prerequisite of being content about where you live, to try to find the best in each place, wherever that may be.


----------



## mrypg9

dunmovin said:


> I might be totally off track here but, It's pretty much a prerequisite of being content about where you live, to try to find the best in each place, wherever that may be.


That's more or less it.  I think we should try to take one day at a time and get the most out of it, wherever we are.
I don't believe paradise exists, whether on earth or 'beyond'.
You make your own luck.


----------



## Maundler

I posted this in the wrong thread.. here it is... 

Talking about bad service in Spain!! Sorry but I had to write this.. I called the British embassy in Madrid they told me to contact a private company who do consulting on visas and everything needed to go to the UK.. I am mexican, currently applying for the spanish nationality, and married to a Spanish woman... we have been married for more than 4 years now.. I knew there was a way for me to work in the UK without asking for a visa, so I called this company and a spaniard answered the phone, my first call was fast, as he didn't even help me a bit. Everything I said or asked his answer was always NO... I told him my situation, but by the sound of him, he didn't even wanted to help me and his definitive answer for everything was NO to everything I said. I called again and a british woman answered the phone, I had a really NICE chat with her and she was more than helpful!! She told me I could do everything I said (when the spaniard said I couldn't) and that the only thing I needed was to apply for as a member/parent of my spanish wife and that I would have full rights to work in the UK. .. I then went to the UK Border Agency website and found a form for what she told me. I read it all and there was a point I wasn't sure how to approach, so I dialled again and the same stupid spaniard answered and told me that I had it allllll wrong!!! I was suprised, but then did the same thing, hung up and dialed again and another british men answered and help me with everything I needed, it turned out I was right all along!!!! I CAN GO TO THE UK TO WORK without much of a hassle!! But I don't know how can people hire stupid and indecent and disrespectful people to attend costumers....

Anyway, I just hung up from the last call and I am so mad at this spaniard guy that I had to write this!! I hope you don't mind... But it is true, at restaurants, at bars, at banks and now even at this kind of services I can definitely say that spaniards are not good at this at all!!!


----------



## xabiaxica

Maundler said:


> I posted this in the wrong thread.. here it is...
> 
> Talking about bad service in Spain!! Sorry but I had to write this.. I called the British embassy in Madrid they told me to contact a private company who do consulting on visas and everything needed to go to the UK.. I am mexican, currently applying for the spanish nationality, and married to a Spanish woman... we have been married for more than 4 years now.. I knew there was a way for me to work in the UK without asking for a visa, so I called this company and a spaniard answered the phone, my first call was fast, as he didn't even help me a bit. Everything I said or asked his answer was always NO... I told him my situation, but by the sound of him, he didn't even wanted to help me and his definitive answer for everything was NO to everything I said. I called again and a british woman answered the phone, I had a really NICE chat with her and she was more than helpful!! She told me I could do everything I said (when the spaniard said I couldn't) and that the only thing I needed was to apply for as a member/parent of my spanish wife and that I would have full rights to work in the UK. .. I then went to the UK Border Agency website and found a form for what she told me. I read it all and there was a point I wasn't sure how to approach, so I dialled again and the same stupid spaniard answered and told me that I had it allllll wrong!!! I was suprised, but then did the same thing, hung up and dialed again and another british men answered and help me with everything I needed, it turned out I was right all along!!!! I CAN GO TO THE UK TO WORK without much of a hassle!! But I don't know how can people hire stupid and indecent and disrespectful people to attend costumers....
> 
> Anyway, I just hung up from the last call and I am so mad at this spaniard guy that I had to write this!! I hope you don't mind... But it is true, at restaurants, at bars, at banks and now even at this kind of services I can definitely say that spaniards are not good at this at all!!!


I've deleted the wrong one for you - gave me the chance in my new role as moderator to find out how


----------



## Maundler

xabiachica said:


> I've deleted the wrong one for you - gave me the chance in my new role as moderator to find out how


Thank you!! I am glad I help you in your new duties as mod!!  I also hope not to be an annoying member! LOL


----------



## xabiaxica

Maundler said:


> Thank you!! I am glad I help you in your new duties as mod!!  I also hope not to be an annoying member! LOL


you're welcome

I'll let you know if you become annoying, don't you worry lol!!


----------



## mrypg9

Maundler said:


> Thank you!! I am glad I help you in your new duties as mod!!  I also hope not to be an annoying member! LOL


I think you are very interesting and look forward to responding to more of your thought-provoking and informed posts.


----------



## Maundler

mrypg9 said:


> I think you are very interesting and look forward to responding to more of your thought-provoking and informed posts.


Thank you very much! But I have I am looking forward on reading some of your posts too, since you have great input on any situation..


----------



## AfroSaxon

jojo said:


> I suspect this isnt going to be a busy thread, but does anyone have anything that can be seen as positive about moving back to Britain?? Since that's what I'm faced with
> 
> My list so far:
> 
> *Language,
> *Knowledge of the SS/legal systems, way of life and the way things work etc
> *Being close to family and friends again
> *Road systems are clearer and better
> *central heating, carpets, cosy houses etc
> *not so many mozzies
> 
> Can anyone add anything please???????
> 
> Jo xxx



What about Christmas Jo? (sorry if it's been mentioned already) 

We've spent a couple of Christmas holidays in Spain/Tenerife and found it to be quite strange. I must admit that I missed the manic last minute shopping, cooking and entertaining family and friends. Maybe it's very different for tourists and residents but not sure that I liked chillaxin' by the pool as opposed to perfecting my stuffing for dinner. 

xXx


----------



## nigele2

AfroSaxon said:


> What about Christmas Jo? (sorry if it's been mentioned already)
> 
> We've spent a couple of Christmas holidays in Spain/Tenerife and found it to be quite strange. I must admit that I missed the manic last minute shopping, cooking and entertaining family and friends. Maybe it's very different for tourists and residents but not sure that I liked chillaxin' by the pool as opposed to perfecting my stuffing for dinner.
> 
> xXx


Yup nothing like a good stuffing, dates wrapped in bacon, saus....... stirring the christmas pub, the snow, the chestnuts, the ......... And who in Spain thought giving kids their main prezzies 24/48 hours before they return to school was a good idea 

Another big plus for the UK: audiences who respect artists. I was at our bagpipe festival last night. Why do the spanish have to talk through everything. A few years ago even while the great Bob Dylan performed in Madrid they chatted and even had long telefone conversations (and no they weren't giving free access to the sound ) and then there was my sporting Gijon football match where the guys behind me discussed car prices for an hour. I know spaniards are naturally a noisy lot but baffles me why they go if they want to chat 

ps I visited the Jurassic Park Museum up north. There was a basement with a video. Silencio signs everywhere. The spanish put up more noise than the kop when Liverpool are in full flight. Couldn't hear a word of the video.


----------



## country boy

Well all I can say Nigele is "...Booogger off back where u came from".... we are all very happy here...noise and all!!!

Watch the Spanish Parliament in operation...that's the way it's done here!!


----------



## nigele2

The other thing that is negative about spain is the aggressive expats  There arn't many but a few 



country boy said:


> Watch the Spanish Parliament in operation...that's the way it's done here!!


well if you think that's a good idea what can I say


----------



## Normatheexdiva

Exactly. For crappy places to live, Jakarta comes pretty high up on that. That's work posting, though. After which, we spent too many years marking time in the UK and chose to come oop north here and haven't regretted it at all. 
We came to fit in and alter our lives and that's exactly what has happened. I cherish the differences. 
We've done the 'expat' thing in Asia. We know what we don't want and that's the pool/club/tennis/'English' supermarkets lifestyle, but that's because we've been there and done that, made the best of it and moved on. 

Jo- you'll be able to follow your diet more easily in the UK. Your kids will thank you for going back to UK schools and it will make life much cheaper at university time. 
Good luck with the move.
xxx





mrypg9 said:


> My ex-husband had a theory about marriage which went something like this: take any ten men and ten women at random, pair them off again randomly,tell them they are to be partners for life and, he would say, given good will and a give-and-take attitude they could all be reasonably happy.
> Sounds daft but not so when you think about the success rate for conventional western marriage (including ours)
> I feel like that about most things in life. There are positives and negatives everywhere and in everything we do. Yes, I can see things I prefer in the UK -not that many though to be honest - and we could relocate tomorrow if we felt so inclined but we're in Spain and I haven't found myself making comparisons..
> I've spent a lot of time in a lot of different countries like many posters and like them I found good and bad in each one. Admittedly some had more negatives than positives (Canada and the CR) but we moved on.
> Not wishing to sound yucky but sometimes how you feel about a place isn't really about that place, it's about you.
> 
> I hope all that makes sense, I'm not good at describing this kind of thing.....


----------



## xabiaxica

Normatheexdiva said:


> SNIP!
> 
> Jo- you'll be able to follow your diet more easily in the UK. Your kids will thank you for going back to UK schools and it will make life much cheaper at university time.
> Good luck with the move.
> xxx


I can see why the diet might be easier, & I'm sure you're right about Jo's kids (when the dd gets used to the idea!)

I am confused about the university comment though - why would that be cheaper - unless you mean travelling costs in hols?:confused2:


----------



## Normatheexdiva

I think you have to pay overseas fees. We had to have been living in the UK for 3 years so that we could pay 'ordinary' fees. 
Overseas fees are scary. £20,000+
So our daughter did A levels at York college and worked for a year and then went to university. 
Rather fortunately for us, our son discovered World of Warcraft and tanked his A levels and I persuaded him to wait and retake when he had a few years of work. He didn't have a problem finding a job. It was easier to get a job with bad A level results than with a good degree. 
It all worked out for the best for them. Not so good for me, as I found the UK climate made my MS worse. It is not an issue here and the neurological care is actually better as it is quite rare due to the outdoorsy life (lots of vitamin D3).
xx




xabiachica said:


> I can see why the diet might be easier, & I'm sure you're right about Jo's kids (when the dd gets used to the idea!)
> 
> I am confused about the university comment though - why would that be cheaper - unless you mean travelling costs in hols?:confused2:


----------



## xabiaxica

Normatheexdiva said:


> I think you have to pay overseas fees. We had to have been living in the UK for 3 years so that we could pay 'ordinary' fees.
> Overseas fees are scary. £20,000+
> So our daughter did A levels at York college and worked for a year and then went to university.
> Rather fortunately for us, our son discovered World of Warcraft and tanked his A levels and I persuaded him to wait and retake when he had a few years of work. He didn't have a problem finding a job. It was easier to get a job with bad A level results than with a good degree.
> It all worked out for the best for them. Not so good for me, as I found the UK climate made my MS worse. It is not an issue here and the neurological care is actually better as it is quite rare due to the outdoorsy life (lots of vitamin D3).
> xx


I'm 99% sure that you only have to pay those fees if you're living outside the EU

UKCISA

yes - I'm right fees for 'Home' & 'EU' students are the same

I have heard - but not checked up on it - that uni fees in Spain are a lot lower than in the UK

I have my fingers crossed that it's trueray:


----------



## Maundler

xabiachica said:


> I have heard - but not checked up on it - that uni fees in Spain are a lot lower than in the UK
> 
> I have my fingers crossed that it's trueray:


Yes, state universities in Spain are pretty cheap, but to be honest you can't compare the educational level between UK universities and Spain Universities, at least not the ones I checked on. And to be honest, in a world full of competition for any position, it gives you more CV to have a degree in a UK university than from a Spanish one, heck, even in Spain, if you talk "native" spanish and have come from a UK university, you will be chosen first than a person coming from a Spanish university, considering both "hipothetical"kids had the same education, language and everything and the difference just being one coming out from a UK university and one from a Spanish university. And I am guessing, education is an important factor for the education of your kids..


----------



## Normatheexdiva

Oh they are, certainly in Santiago de Compostela, that's for sure.
That's good to know (for others) we were too recently returned from the far east to think about moving again. We had to wait out the 3 years, but as two were A levels, this was good.
In the end, our daughter got a 2:1 from Durham, so she outdid the rest of us in our family. I think largely due to the expat education in Singapore and Jakarta. 
There's nothing like a revolution (1998) for reducing class sizes!
The British International School went from 1500 kids to less than 5 overnight. 
Scary times though.
xx




xabiachica said:


> I'm 99% sure that you only have to pay those fees if you're living outside the EU
> 
> UKCISA
> 
> yes - I'm right fees for 'Home' & 'EU' students are the same
> 
> I have heard - but not checked up on it - that uni fees in Spain are a lot lower than in the UK
> 
> I have my fingers crossed that it's trueray:


----------



## Xose

Maundler said:


> Yes, state universities in Spain are pretty cheap, but to be honest you can't compare the educational level between UK universities and Spain Universities, at least not the ones I checked on. And to be honest, in a world full of competition for any position, it gives you more CV to have a degree in a UK university than from a Spanish one, heck, even in Spain, if you talk "native" spanish and have come from a UK university, you will be chosen first than a person coming from a Spanish university, considering both "hipothetical"kids had the same education, language and everything and the difference just being one coming out from a UK university and one from a Spanish university. And I am guessing, education is an important factor for the education of your kids..


If we're talking OxBridge then perhaps, although for certain disciplines, Pamplona will give them a run for their money, certainly in Architecture.

As for the others, medicine in Santiago is far more relevent than engineering at Brunel, though once that wasn't true.

One thing Spain doesn't have, to it's loss I think, is have language grads with a good degree eventually ending up in computing or business or whatever. Basically, you end up doing what your "licenciatura" says you're good at.

But in general, I've had experience both personally and through many friends, of many different types and qualities on UK universities, and the likes of UCL and a few others shine, but most don't and in business studies, some colleges actually beat them in CV weight (Harrow for example).

Sadly, UK and wherever, MBA's etc from anything other than the big ones (Harvard, LSE etc) simply open a few doors but you're still left "making tea" and loosing your green stripes for a while IF you get in - meanwhile the harvard boys are in Deloits and co., earning a mint from day one. 

The moral - there's good and bad wherever you go and the discipline you intend to study SHOULD dictate which uni you go to, but rarely is that choice given or taken.


----------



## sensationalfrog

when i move back to the uk,it will be nice that when i drive on a one way street,i wont meet some spanish **** coming the other way


----------



## Xose

sensationalfrog said:


> when i move back to the uk,it will be nice that when i drive on a one way street,i wont meet some spanish **** coming the other way


I wouldn't be too sure. It' a small world and with the karma you're projecting, I wouldn't bet gainst it! - mind you, it'll probably be another nationality, but chances are, not English.


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## maxdog008

I personally think the grass is always greener on the other side, when I am in Spain I want to be back in the UK, I miss my kids, shopping, friends, walking to my local pub etc etc etc ..........then when I am in the UK ...I want to be back in Spain, I miss my friends, the gorgeous weather, the relaxed lifestyle, tapas, my beautiful animals, the lovely mountains where we live ....and so on. Home is where your heart is and where you make your nest!!!!!


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## nigele2

Xose said:


> If we're talking OxBridge then perhaps, although for certain disciplines, Pamplona will give them a run for their money, certainly in Architecture.
> 
> As for the others, medicine in Santiago is far more relevent than engineering at Brunel, though once that wasn't true.
> 
> One thing Spain doesn't have, to it's loss I think, is have language grads with a good degree eventually ending up in computing or business or whatever. Basically, you end up doing what your "licenciatura" says you're good at.
> 
> But in general, I've had experience both personally and through many friends, of many different types and qualities on UK universities, and the likes of UCL and a few others shine, but most don't and in business studies, some colleges actually beat them in CV weight (Harrow for example).
> 
> Sadly, UK and wherever, MBA's etc from anything other than the big ones (Harvard, LSE etc) simply open a few doors but you're still left "making tea" and loosing your green stripes for a while IF you get in - meanwhile the harvard boys are in Deloits and co., earning a mint from day one.
> 
> The moral - there's good and bad wherever you go and the discipline you intend to study SHOULD dictate which uni you go to, but rarely is that choice given or taken.


My main concern with Spanish degrees relates to many spanish students live at home whereas UK students live away. I am also concerned that many Spanish qualifications appear to need more years to complete.

I think the UK UNI system in general outputs better well rounded raw material and whether that is true in all cases still these days with hundreds of applicants the UK UNI grad will get on the interview list with greater ease. Of course a native spaniard with a UK degree will stand out for me but that's a personal thing  

That said in my specialist area of IT for anyone over 30 years old we generally ignore qualifications. Much more important are experience, attitude and enthusiasm.


----------



## xabiaxica

nigele2 said:


> My main concern with Spanish degrees relates to many spanish students live at home whereas UK students live away. I am also concerned that many Spanish qualifications appear to need more years to complete.
> 
> I think the UK UNI system in general outputs better well rounded raw material and whether that is true in all cases still these days with hundreds of applicants the UK UNI grad will get on the interview list with greater ease. Of course a native spaniard with a UK degree will stand out for me but that's a personal thing
> 
> That said in my specialist area of IT for anyone over 30 years old we generally ignore qualifications. Much more important is experience, attitude and enthusiasm.


do Spanish students really live at home?

so a student from Valencia would study something offered at Valencia - even if the course they wanted to do was better in Madrid?

or even worse - only offered in Madrid so they would do something entirely different?!

that makes no sense to me - & says more about the attitude of the student/family than the quality of the degree or the university

I agree - a native Spaniard with a UK degree would stand out - but surely so would a native Brit with a degree from a Spanish uni

dd1 tells me she wants to go to the US for hers


----------



## nigele2

xabiachica said:


> do Spanish students really live at home?


Xabia this is largely economy. In the UK the number of home based UNI students is slowly rising and is close to 25% based on recent stats. 

In Spain I believe it is far higher (?). Certainly none of my spanish family or their friends even considered living away from home.

A connected aside is the increasing trend for top UNIs to offer course teaching locally. I think we will see much more of this in the future.

Also we will see much more technology based education. When I return to the UK next Monday I will be testing a system which communicates with students by mobile device for London Met UNI. Be interesting to see if in a few years people are saying "UNI education is not what it was "


----------



## xabiaxica

nigele2 said:


> Xabia this is largely economy. In the UK the number of home based UNI students is slowly rising and is close to 25% based on recent stats.
> 
> In Spain I believe it is far higher (?). Certainly none of my spanish family or their friends even considered living away from home.
> 
> A connected aside is the increasing trend for top UNIs to offer course teaching locally. I think we will see much more of this in the future.
> 
> Also we will see much more technology based education. When I return to the UK next Monday I will be testing a system which communicates with students by mobile device for London Met UNI. Be interesting to see if in a few years people are saying "UNI education is not what it was "


yes, many (most?) of the Spanish adults I know who went to uni did indeed live at home - but I had put this down to a generation thing

I can see how the financial considerations make this happen now, too though

heavens - I even know some professionals in their 30s who still live 'at home'!


'remote' study may well be the way of the future - but students would miss out on so much personal growth


----------



## mrypg9

nigele2 said:


> Be interesting to see if in a few years people are saying "UNI education is not what it was "



I've been saying that for the past couple of decades, Nigel. The quality of degrees awarded by some UK universities seems to have deteriorated sharply. This links with what we were saying about teachers last week.
A friend who recruits graduates says she looks at the awarding university, not the degree. When so many young people have degrees of course the value diminishes.
As for the value of a degree in some fields....my son did a sandwich course in Computer Science at London University. After his sandwich year working at a leading City financial institution he was offered a job sans degree which, he was told, would count for little in the 'real' world.
He accepted the offer and has never looked back. 
Of course it's a human tendency to think things were better in the past but I sincerely think that my degrees (London and Southampton Universities) were harder to get and more 'solid' than many awarded nowadays, especially by the former Polytechnics now Universities.
I have read that many of these have to offer 'catch-up' courses in numeracy and literacy, such are the poor standards of some students.


----------



## lynn

mrypg9 said:


> I've been saying that for the past couple of decades, Nigel. The quality of degrees awarded by some UK universities seems to have deteriorated sharply. This links with what we were saying about teachers last week.
> A friend who recruits graduates says she looks at the awarding university, not the degree. When so many young people have degrees of course the value diminishes.
> As for the value of a degree in some fields....my son did a sandwich course in Computer Science at London University. After his sandwich year working at a leading City financial institution he was offered a job sans degree which, he was told, would count for little in the 'real' world.
> He accepted the offer and has never looked back.
> Of course it's a human tendency to think things were better in the past but I sincerely think that my degrees (London and Southampton Universities) were harder to get and more 'solid' than many awarded nowadays, especially by the former Polytechnics now Universities.
> I have read that many of these have to offer 'catch-up' courses in numeracy and literacy, such are the poor standards of some students.


Hang on Mary, I went to a polytechnic back in the 80's and got a fantastic degree! I was given a place there despite the fact that I had all but failed my A levels. At interview they identified a real enthusiasm for learning the subject and gave me a chance. I then went on to get a Masters degree from the Royal College of Art... No 'university' at the time would look at me. 
I suspect that sometimes, it is the students attending further education that don't really put much effort in to study that makes for a poor degree, rather than the establishment. 
My eldest son embarks on the application process next year so we are looking at unis in the UK at the moment. I want to impress on him that whatever he chooses should be a subject he is dead keen on studying, and then we shall put a range of uni choices on the application form to cover a range of offers... If he doesn't get top grades at A level he still needs options...


----------



## Pesky Wesky

University students: Most Spanish study in their home town if possible and yes, this is a question of economics as has been pointed out combined with tradition. Most students have never received government grants therefore many families make a decion based on money. The same as the UK nowadays, fewer grants mean more students staying nearer home or alternatvely having massive debts that they spend the early working life paying off `cos they decided to leave home to go to uni. Pros and cons for both systems.

Plan de Bolonia: Spanish universities now follow a system commonly known as the Plan de Bolonia. University degrees are now called *grados* not *carreras *and mostare 4 year courses I believe.

Quality of uni courses: IMHO unless you`re doing smth really specialised one place is as good as another ie a BEd in Leeds is as good as a BEd in Norwich. (You could also insert Alicante and Leon)


----------



## mrypg9

lynn said:


> Hang on Mary, I went to a polytechnic back in the 80's and got a fantastic degree! I was given a place there despite the fact that I had all but failed my A levels. At interview they identified a real enthusiasm for learning the subject and gave me a chance. I then went on to get a Masters degree from the Royal College of Art... No 'university' at the time would look at me.
> I suspect that sometimes, it is the students attending further education that don't really put much effort in to study that makes for a poor degree, rather than the establishment.
> My eldest son embarks on the application process next year so we are looking at unis in the UK at the moment. I want to impress on him that whatever he chooses should be a subject he is dead keen on studying, and then we shall put a range of uni choices on the application form to cover a range of offers... If he doesn't get top grades at A level he still needs options...



I'm sure you're right, Lynn and you are the sort of person who would have shown perseverance and gained a good degree wherever you went. But there are some Universities which are perhaps less 'choosy' than they should be....
And you are right about the poor motivation of students. But then if university entrance is made available to so many the chance to get a degree will not be valued as highly as it should be. Going to uni shouldn''t be a government scheme to keep school leaver dole queues down.
I just cannot see the point of making university education as such available to so many poorly-qualified students though. Not only will they have comparatively worthless degrees in an overcrowded market but there simply won't be enough jobs to go round. That's happening already.
Where I think we fail badly is in placing such little importance on high-quality technical and vocational education, unlike say Germany which excels in this and does it pay off.........
We need more engineers, scientists and technology people and have more than enough people qualified in media studies, social 'sciences' et al. IMO technical education is generally seen as second-best. My partner had great difficulty in finding highly-qualified and experienced technicians able to work on HGVs even though we were paying well above the going rate for these rare birds. That's one reason we had apprentices.
We used to get applications for basic office vacancies from graduates ...and more than a few of them couldn't put a decent application letter together and were inarticulate at interview.
Something wrong somewhere.....


----------



## jojo

I've only skimmed the last few posts, so may misunderstand, but I think that too much emphasis is placed on academic qualifications these days!!!! What about those kids who are generally uninterested in academia??? Its not everyones chosen path and thank heavens for that!!! A kid who wants to leave school at 14 and learn a trade (plumber, builder, mechanic...) is going to cost the country less money and find a good niche for himself rather than being forced to waste time and money by having to go to school, with those around him banging on about degrees and university - that should be left for those who actually want to train for a profession where it is required. 

Apprenticeships are the way forward rather than enforced schooling after 14/16 IMO

Jo xxx


----------



## mrypg9

Pesky Wesky said:


> Quality of uni courses: IMHO unless you`re doing smth really specialised one place is as good as another ie a BEd in Leeds is as good as a BEd in Norwich. (You could also insert Alicante and Leon)


Ah Norwich ...UEA...the University of Easy Access, as it's fondly known..
I did a PGCE at the London University Institute of Education just before the B.Ed was introduced and we had a lot of interesting discussions about this new teaching qualification and its course of study. There were issues then with the academic components which seemed to be a mish-mash of basic psychology, social science, history of education plus a not very demanding canter through the specialist subject.
Not that a PGCE was much of an improvement as far as learning how to teach went...
As I said earlier (or in another thread) I have been responsible for the monitoring and induction of Newly Qualified Teachers and I can only say I have been dismayed for the future of our children when I think back on the quality of a substantial minority of these graduates.
Of course the majority were OK, especially the mature students who brought valuable skills and experience outside of education with them.
But overall I wasn't impressed.


----------



## mrypg9

jojo said:


> Apprenticeships are the way forward rather than enforced schooling after 14/16 IMO
> 
> Jo xxx


Totally agree! The German model is a good one to follow. Good vocational education is needed much more than poor quality degrees.
But we mustn't totally neglect the 'humanities' side of young people's education or we'll end up with a generation of philistines with spanners....
I'm sure some of our apprentices thought that Bach was what a German dog did....


----------



## xabiaxica

mrypg9 said:


> Totally agree! The German model is a good one to follow. Good vocational education is needed much more than poor quality degrees.
> But we mustn't totally neglect the 'humanities' side of young people's education or we'll end up with a generation of philistines with spanners....
> I'm sure some of our apprentices thought that Bach was what a German dog did....


here in Spain some students have the opportunity to do vocational training - PQPI in this region - Programes de Qualificacio Profesional Inicial- 

students who haven't or won't be able to pass graduado do school & work-based vocational training for 16-21 year olds

not all get the opportunity - they have to show a willingness to attend & work hard, but it's aimed at those who might not be academically clever


----------



## jojo

mrypg9 said:


> Totally agree! The German model is a good one to follow. Good vocational education is needed much more than poor quality degrees.
> But we mustn't totally neglect the 'humanities' side of young people's education or we'll end up with a generation of philistines with spanners....
> I'm sure some of our apprentices thought that Bach was what a German dog did....


Well no, but a proper apprenticeship should involve day release to college where basic education (as well as their vocational course) should be given.

I get annoyed at the constant talk and pressure given to kids nowadays about academic success. Not everyone is that way inclined and all that ends up happening is that kids do what they're told and half heartedly do what they're told and fail or they "opt out" and skive and fail. 

One of my older daughters was a prime example, she was clever and academically bright, but she really didnt want to go to uni or did she have any idea what she wanted to do. Pressure made her apply to universities (media studies cos she couldnt be bothered with any of the other courses). She got good A levels but couldnt be bothered with uni in the end. She got a job in an office and then went on to be an air hostess and is very happy - she works along side a girl who has a degree and who's still paying off her student loan!!!!!

Jo xxx


----------



## mrypg9

jojo said:


> Well no, but a proper apprenticeship should involve day release to college where basic education (as well as their vocational course) should be given.
> 
> I get annoyed at the constant talk and pressure given to kids nowadays about academic success. Not everyone is that way inclined and all that ends up happening is that kids do what they're told and half heartedly do what they're told and fail or they "opt out" and skive and fail.
> 
> One of my older daughters was a prime example, she was clever and academically bright, but she really didnt want to go to uni or did she have any idea what she wanted to do. Pressure made her apply to universities (media studies cos she couldnt be bothered with any of the other courses). She got good A levels but couldnt be bothered with uni in the end. She got a job in an office and then went on to be an air hostess and is very happy - she works along side a girl who has a degree and who's still paying off her student loan!!!!!
> 
> Jo xxx


Sounds the same as my son. I pressurised him into going to University but as I posted elsewhere he didn't complete his degree and it has done him no harm whatsoever....in fact in both material and professional terms he has far excelled his academically qualified but practically useless mum!
One of the great tragedies of our education system (and maybe the Spanish system) is the sheer waste of talent because we select the academic few and ignore the often much more gifted many who, if their talents were properly recognised and developed, would be of greater use to society.
I spent four years of my teenage life studying Latin and Ancient Greek. Now the Latin has come in useful -for deciphering tombstones and inscriptions in churches, on statues etc..and more usefully in helping the learning of Romance languages.
But Ancient Greek????? I can't even remember the alphabet let alone order an ouzo in Athens!!!!!
And yet my knowledge of more practical things is scant. I'm not too good at Maths and what I know about Science and Technology is.....very little.
But I was considered to have had a very good education.
Effectively, I was functionally useless when I left school.


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## Normatheexdiva

Yep, I think our son is quite happy not being at university. He's not comfortable with the debt and if he's taken on as permanent staff at Aviva, he'll be able to move up through the company. 
Problem is...the year he spent here working for us. He couldn't drive anywhere (insurance!!!!) and didn't want to learn Castellano. 
Aviva want him to 'prove' that he has no criminal record. All he can do is tell them that he was here, in the middle of nowhere and doing very little. 
I keep telling him to make the point that he could have been on a gap year and have gone anywhere. Up the Amazon, or deepest Africa? Who knows. 

We do miss him. He's tall and strong and free (gratis type of free) and we are a pair of crocks. 
That's one thing about going back to the UK. 
If you leave for more than 6 months, you don't seem to exist anymore. Very irritating.





mrypg9 said:


> Sounds the same as my son. I pressurised him into going to University but as I posted elsewhere he didn't complete his degree and it has done him no harm whatsoever....in fact in both material and professional terms he has far excelled his academically qualified but practically useless mum!
> One of the great tragedies of our education system (and maybe the Spanish system) is the sheer waste of talent because we select the academic few and ignore the often much more gifted many who, if their talents were properly recognised and developed, would be of greater use to society.
> I spent four years of my teenage life studying Latin and Ancient Greek. Now the Latin has come in useful -for deciphering tombstones and inscriptions in churches, on statues etc..and more usefully in helping the learning of Romance languages.
> But Ancient Greek????? I can't even remember the alphabet let alone order an ouzo in Athens!!!!!
> And yet my knowledge of more practical things is scant. I'm not too good at Maths and what I know about Science and Technology is.....very little.
> But I was considered to have had a very good education.
> Effectively, I was functionally useless when I left school.


----------



## mrypg9

Normatheexdiva said:


> Yep, I think our son is quite happy not being at university. He's not comfortable with the debt and if he's taken on as permanent staff at Aviva, he'll be able to move up through the company.
> Problem is...the year he spent here working for us. He couldn't drive anywhere (insurance!!!!) and didn't want to learn Castellano.
> Aviva want him to 'prove' that he has no criminal record. All he can do is tell them that he was here, in the middle of nowhere and doing very little.
> I keep telling him to make the point that he could have been on a gap year and have gone anywhere. Up the Amazon, or deepest Africa? Who knows.
> 
> We do miss him. He's tall and strong and free (gratis type of free) and we are a pair of crocks.
> That's one thing about going back to the UK.
> If you leave for more than 6 months, you don't seem to exist anymore. Very irritating.


I don't get a chance to miss my son...either he and dil or one or the other visit each month. They stay at their house a five minute drive away and we meet up for dinner either here, there or out somewhere which is rather pleasant.
He is also useful for seeing to the list of tasks I draw up.
It's five years now since we left the UK permanently but until recently I've been going back around twice a month, sometimes more frequently. When we lived in Prague we had a truly enormous number of different visitors from the UK but we decided to truncate our guest list when we moved here so we see only a select few
I'm sure your son will do well at Aviva. I honestly can't see how my son would have been better off if he'd stayed at University. He was a very reluctant student, more interested in doing 'real' things. He works hard but enjoys a good lifestyle and has a good family life. What more can one want??


----------



## gus-lopez

Normatheexdiva said:


> That's one thing about going back to the UK.
> If you leave for more than 6 months, you don't seem to exist anymore. Very irritating.


You've hit the nail on the head there. Our elder daughter lived here for nearly 4 years before going back . She'd already applied for a job with the Nhs & been accepted ,subject to a crb check . It took them 4 months in the end, an utter nightmare. The Saving graces were that she'd had a crb about 5 years before when going to Australia, plus when we moved here the bank accounts , although still UK branch based, have spanish addresses & the bank was able to confirm to the Nhs this fact, & that she'd notified them that she was moving back. All in all though it's as you say , you don't exist anymore.


----------



## Normatheexdiva

Gosh, thank goodness for the crb!
Our daughter is working in the NHS too. Hard times, no pay rises, no perks but at least it's in sexual health, so that's important and hopefully, less prone to those cuts.
She was smart and didn't leave the UK. She just visits from time to time. 

Not existing....more on... 8 years we spent in Asia.
Who'd have thought that house prices would have risen so much?
We sold up before leaving, thinking, well we've made a loss on this one, so let's cut the potential maintenance bills and sell, instead of letting it out.
Bought in 1990 for £92k, sold in 1995 for 85k. Found out in 06 that it had just been sold again for £220k. Ouch.
Stock market crash? Ouch.
8 years away in Asia and we really had dropped off the map. I'm surprised we could even get a GP, but we did. Renting was a nightmare and credit? 
It didn't seem to matter that we were with a huge global bank (except in Spain) and we practically had to start again like 22 year olds. 
It's just as well that we never want to leave Galicia. 
I get nervous leaving the Ribeira Sacra. 
I love it so much here, the light, my neighbours, the mountains, the language...all of it. 
The wine's not bad neither (love those double negatives too!).
xx





gus-lopez said:


> You've hit the nail on the head there. Our elder daughter lived here for nearly 4 years before going back . She'd already applied for a job with the Nhs & been accepted ,subject to a crb check . It took them 4 months in the end, an utter nightmare. The Saving graces were that she'd had a crb about 5 years before when going to Australia, plus when we moved here the bank accounts , although still UK branch based, have spanish addresses & the bank was able to confirm to the Nhs this fact, & that she'd notified them that she was moving back. All in all though it's as you say , you don't exist anymore.


----------



## milton43

*hi*



jojo said:


> I suspect this isnt going to be a busy thread, but does anyone have anything that can be seen as positive about moving back to Britain?? Since that's what I'm faced with
> 
> My list so far:
> 
> *Language,
> *Knowledge of the SS/legal systems, way of life and the way things work etc
> *Being close to family and friends again
> *Road systems are clearer and better
> *central heating, carpets, cosy houses etc
> *not so many mozzies
> 
> Can anyone add anything please???????
> 
> Jo xxx


hi jo if you have to work i would strongly recomend you do not come any were near hudersfield dewsbury liversedge infact look south


----------



## jojo

milton43 said:


> hi jo if you have to work i would strongly recomend you do not come any were near hudersfield dewsbury liversedge infact look south


Dont worry, I've gotta house down south and one of the reasons for our return would be cos my husband would need some help with his business. He's always commuted to the UK for work so we didnt see that much of him and with his extra work load we'd have seen him even less!!!

Jo xxx


----------



## milton43

*hi*



jojo said:


> Dont worry, I've gotta house down south and one of the reasons for our return would be cos my husband would need some help with his business. He's always commuted to the UK for work so we didnt see that much of him and with his extra work load we'd have seen him even less!!!
> 
> Jo xxx


ok joe hope you enjoy blighty all the best at lest sun is out


----------



## jojo

milton43 said:


> ok joe hope you enjoy blighty all the best at lest sun is out


Hhhhmmm, thanks, somehow I dont think I'm going to  

Jo xxxx


----------



## milton43

*hi*



jojo said:


> Hhhhmmm, thanks, somehow I dont think I'm going to
> 
> Jo xxxx


maybe not


----------



## Alcalaina

I feel quite at home in Spain and would never want to go back to the UK, but the thing I really miss is the humour, both in the media and in general conversation. Being able to understand the jokes, satire, wisecracks, cartoons etc in a language and culture that is not your own is really difficult. Thank heavens for the internet and BBC Listen Again so I can get the Radio 4 comedy stuff like I'm Sorry I haven't a Clue.


----------



## Normatheexdiva

We have it on satellite. I do love Radio Clasica here, but did miss Radio 4. On satellite, you can get Longwave too, which is lovely for cricket.
It's just keeping your mind on the right time zone though..I keep thinking that I'm on UK time.
Sometime soon we'll get an aerial and get mainstream TVe. I think my understanding of Castellano has improved enough to follow what's going on. It's just the money...sigh..it's always the money!
xxx




Alcalaina said:


> I feel quite at home in Spain and would never want to go back to the UK, but the thing I really miss is the humour, both in the media and in general conversation. Being able to understand the jokes, satire, wisecracks, cartoons etc in a language and culture that is not your own is really difficult. Thank heavens for the internet and BBC Listen Again so I can get the Radio 4 comedy stuff like I'm Sorry I haven't a Clue.


----------



## Alcalaina

Normatheexdiva said:


> We have it on satellite. I do love Radio Clasica here, but did miss Radio 4. On satellite, you can get Longwave too, which is lovely for cricket.
> It's just keeping your mind on the right time zone though..I keep thinking that I'm on UK time.
> Sometime soon we'll get an aerial and get mainstream TVe. I think my understanding of Castellano has improved enough to follow what's going on. It's just the money...sigh..it's always the money!
> xxx


We decided not to get a satellite dish, but we have an internet radio which picks up thousands of channels, including all the BBC ones, via the wireless router we use for our computers. You can also use the Listen Again facility.

Definitely worth saving up for that aerial! Only watching Spanish TV has done wonders for our language skills. On most programmes you can turn on the Spanish sub-titles for the deaf, and listen and read at the same time. TVE1 and 2 are now advert-free, which is great. 

Non-Spanish movies and serials can be watched in the original English on most channels - Desperate Housewives and House definitely don't work when dubbed into Spanish!


----------



## Normatheexdiva

Aw, I quite like Spanish commercials. We live oop north and too far from the telephone exchange for broadband, unless we pay lots of money for it and we can't.
Don't miss House, but I do miss CSI (not Miami). 
Our satellite was free, in exchange for something else and I'm surprised we can pick up anything. 
Actually, I miss bad Sci-fi too. There was plenty of that on Sky1. 
Can't believe that I have written that I miss Sky1...
xxxx



Alcalaina said:


> We decided not to get a satellite dish, but we have an internet radio which picks up thousands of channels, including all the BBC ones, via the wireless router we use for our computers. You can also use the Listen Again facility.
> 
> Definitely worth saving up for that aerial! Only watching Spanish TV has done wonders for our language skills. On most programmes you can turn on the Spanish sub-titles for the deaf, and listen and read at the same time. TVE1 and 2 are now advert-free, which is great.
> 
> Non-Spanish movies and serials can be watched in the original English on most channels - Desperate Housewives and House definitely don't work when dubbed into Spanish!


----------



## msearson1

*no more beaurocracy *

1. No more queuing for ages to get a date for when you have to return to queue for ages to be told you should have come between 10 and 12, only to then be told you have to make photocopies and take them to another town before returning to the same place to get another date for another queue to do something that takes 5 minutes in the uk !

2. No more supermarkets with only Spanish wine on the shelves. You can buy wine from all over the world in the uk.

3. If you're a vegtarian, no more limited menus. You'll always find a nice veggy option.

4. No more thinking " what did they just say to me ? " while the conversation rolls on onto other topics.

5. No more being super-lethargic due to the heat when you really want to get something done.

6. No more endless lengthy adverts when you're trying to watch a film on tele.

7. No more people looking pained and assuming they won't understand you when you know full-well that you're saying exactly what you want to say in correct spanish.

8. No more having to produce a residency card every 5 minutes for no reason.

9. No more roads full of pot-holes.

10. No more missing Thai food when there aren't any Thai restaurants.

11. No more queuing for hours to get your car MOT sorted out.

12. No more queuing in the bank for hours because there is only one cashier who is chatting to each customer for 10 minutes about nothing in spite of 50 people waiting.


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## dunmovin

msearson1 said:


> 1. No more queuing for ages to get a date for when you have to return to queue for ages to be told you should have come between 10 and 12, only to then be told you have to make photocopies and take them to another town before returning to the same place to get another date for another queue to do something that takes 5 minutes in the uk !
> 
> and the last time that I waited for only five minutes is que in the UK was ...never
> 
> 2. No more supermarkets with only Spanish wine on the shelves. You can buy wine from all over the world in the uk.
> 
> you must be going to the wrong supermarkets. Carrefour have a wide selection
> 
> 3. If you're a vegtarian, no more limited menus. You'll always find a nice veggy option.
> 
> N/A I like meat
> 
> 4. No more thinking " what did they just say to me ? " while the conversation rolls on onto other topics.
> 
> it's a learning curve
> 
> 5. No more being super-lethargic due to the heat when you really want to get something done.
> 
> aircon works wonders
> 
> 6. No more endless lengthy adverts when you're trying to watch a film on tele.
> 
> enough time to go outside with a cool beer and have a couple of ciggies
> 
> 7. No more people looking pained and assuming they won't understand you when you know full-well that you're saying exactly what you want to say in correct spanish.
> 
> rarely happens and when it does, focus your attention elsewhere
> 
> 8. No more having to produce a residency card every 5 minutes for no reason.
> 
> my driving licence works for ID
> 
> 9. No more roads full of pot-holes.
> 
> COUGH COUGH SPLUTTER have you SEEN the state of British roads? you don't notice some of the potholes as they are so big they could eazsily be mistaken for a valley
> 
> 10. No more missing Thai food when there aren't any Thai restaurants.
> 
> 
> there's two within 15 km of where I live
> 
> 11. No more queuing for hours to get your car MOT sorted out.
> 
> 
> I get the mechanic to do all that and no problems yet
> 
> 12. No more queuing in the bank for hours because there is only one cashier who is chatting to each customer for 10 minutes about nothing in spite of 50 people waiting.
> 
> true, Uk bank tellers just say "i'll just go and get the deatils"...then vanish off to have a coffee break, pop out to the local asda to get week's shopping, phone a relative.... then come back with a slip of paper, which will invariably mean you have to make an appointment to see someone who will advize you the best way the bank can take your money


let's get real here both countrys have there own set of problems


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## nigele2

dunmovin said:


> let's get real here both countrys have there own set of problems


But this thread is about what is best in the UK 

msearson1 no probs with mot or in the bank or the temp. here in the north. But the rest I can sympathise with 

Prepared to be told 'if you don't like it b****r off'


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## dunmovin

nigele2 said:


> But this thread is about what is best in the UK
> 
> msearson1 no probs with mot or in the bank or the temp. here in the north. But the rest I can sympathise with
> 
> Prepared to be told 'if you don't like it b****r off'


I think that is spot on! Jo started this thread, looking for the good points of life in the UK. Certainly not to have it turned into a Spain bashing thread. She is not happy about having to go back, but circumstances dictate she has to and was hoping to get some positive feedback about the move.

The last thing Jo would need, is a bunch of digruntrled people tarnishing the good memories she has of her time in Spain


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## country boy




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## jojo

Hey, this thread mirrors what is going on in my head - all over the place!!! I guess I'm clinging on to carpets, central heating and cosy fireside winters and not having to see my OH off at the airport for weeks on end...... but then I think.................... Oddly enough this waiting for "the powers that be" to say exactly when we're going is kinda making me feel that I want to get on with it now... I think???? altho its also making me feel like this is a wonderful place that I dont know how I'm going to leave when the time comes??????? 



Jo xxx


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## nigele2

jojo said:


> Hey, this thread mirrors what is going on in my head - all over the place!!! I guess I'm clinging on to carpets, central heating and cosy fireside winters and not having to see my OH off at the airport for weeks on end...... but then I think.................... Oddly enough this waiting for "the powers that be" to say exactly when we're going is kinda making me feel that I want to get on with it now... I think???? altho its also making me feel like this is a wonderful place that I dont know how I'm going to leave when the time comes???????
> 
> 
> 
> Jo xxx


Jo
Just my thoughts but don't even think about it. As you have recently posted the dream has not existed for the past year anyway and thus is not real. And you have back in England what many in the world would give their right hand for: family, friends, a reason to be, independance, a house in beautiful part of England, an economy, lots of spanish holidays, spanish evenings for family and friends to share your enthusiasm, ........

What about the future? You have a great opportunity to study Spanish and get up to speed for the 'RETURN'. You said yourself that you and OH found that an enormous draw back. Is your house big enough to host spanish visitors? What Spanish friends will remain pen pals? Planing the return to Spain. So much to do and no time to think 

Time to move on, say thanks for the good bits, and get that bubbly Jo enthusiastic about the future. Life's too short so enjoy each day for what it offers. 

Final words - snap out of it and get to it girl


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## Alcalaina

Let´s face it, if we are where we want to be, we will put up with the niggles and enjoy the good bits. If we would rather be somewhere else, the niggles become more significant and we pine for the good bits of the place we would rather be, sometimes to the point of fantasy. This is a very common phenomenon in ex-pats. 

I guess the answer is to be happy in your own skin, wherever you are, and don´t get hung up about things you can´t change. You only live once!


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## msearson1

*i choose to stay in Spain*

I love Spain and have lived in Madrid for 6 years. I have no plans to leave. I just wanted to make Jo feel better about leaving. Silly me. Of course I didn't consider all the english people who are living there wouldn't like what I said. hehe. 
It was meant as a light-hearted , tongue in cheek mickey-take. Not a full-on slagging off. Sorry if I upset anyone.

England is a beautiful, green , quaint , character-filled little Island and Spain can be visited any time. 

Also, you never know what is around the corner. Perhaps the opportunity to move back to Spain will come again.

Besos ! x


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## wjbvo

jojo said:


> I suspect this isnt going to be a busy thread, but does anyone have anything that can be seen as positive about moving back to Britain?? Since that's what I'm faced with
> 
> My list so far:
> 
> *Language,
> *Knowledge of the SS/legal systems, way of life and the way things work etc
> *Being close to family and friends again
> *Road systems are clearer and better
> *central heating, carpets, cosy houses etc
> *not so many mozzies
> 
> Can anyone add anything please???????
> 
> Jo xxx


Supermarkets are much better in the UK, better quality and better prices. It's absolutely horrible what they sell you here, especially the meat.


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## xabiaxica

wjbvo said:


> Supermarkets are much better in the UK, better quality and better prices. It's absolutely horrible what they sell you here, especially the meat.


really?


maybe it's just what you get used to

I was recently in the UK for the first time in 6 years & was horrified at the high price & poor quality of the fresh meat

a fresh chicken in Sainsbury cost about the same per chicken as in Mercadona - but it was scrawny & a very odd pale colour - and tasted of absolutely nothing


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## msearson1

*buying meat in spain*

I'm veggy but my girlfriend recommends buying meat in the markets instead of the supermarkets. But she says Hipercor or Cort Ingles would be the best supermarkets for meat.


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## xabiaxica

msearson1 said:


> I'm veggy but my girlfriend recommends buying meat in the markets instead of the supermarkets. But she says Hipercor or Cort Ingles would be the best supermarkets for meat.


ah well - yes, if you have a good butcher in your local mercado you can't go wrong


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## Alcalaina

The local independent butchers are much better than supermarkets. They will prepare the meat however you want it; for example if you want mince for burgers or lasagne, you buy a piece of steak and they mince it up for you. More expensive but you need far less as you don't have to pour off half a pint of fatty grey liquid. I would rather not think about what they put in the prepared mince you get in Tescos.


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## mrypg9

Alcalaina said:


> Let´s face it, if we are where we want to be, we will put up with the niggles and enjoy the good bits. If we would rather be somewhere else, the niggles become more significant and we pine for the good bits of the place we would rather be, sometimes to the point of fantasy. This is a very common phenomenon in ex-pats.
> 
> I guess the answer is to be happy in your own skin, wherever you are, and don´t get hung up about things you can´t change. You only live once!


Quite. That's more or less what I posted a few pages back but you have put it more succinctly.
We lived in Prague, there were loads of things I found uncongenial but I got used to them, avoided them or found ways round them and enjoyed the good things. I had my OH, dog, books, CDs and our furniture and other household effects and good friends so I felt at home.
I wasn't sure how I'd like Spain as it's not a culture I would normally fit easily into.
But I'm very happy here now as I have all the things as listed above plus have found interests and occupations I didn't have before coming here. We have also made a lot of interesting friends of all nationalities.
As someone -Jo I think -said ages ago, you do the same things here as you would do anywhere. If you are open-minded, tolerant and not too demanding you can live reasonably contentedly practically anywhere, imo.


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## giritana

xabiachica said:


> really?
> 
> 
> maybe it's just what you get used to
> 
> I was recently in the UK for the first time in 6 years & was horrified at the high price & poor quality of the fresh meat
> 
> a fresh chicken in Sainsbury cost about the same per chicken as in Mercadona - but it was scrawny & a very odd pale colour - and tasted of absolutely nothing


Not surprising - 'fresh chickens' in supermarkets are the products of intensive rearing methods - either battery cages, which won't be outlawed in the UK for another 2 years - unless the new Govt. cancels the change, in support of the powerful farming lobby - or 'barn' in which the birds are on the ground, but with minimal access to the outdoors, due to huge flocks and few exits! The RSPCA sponsored system is slightly better, but not much. Birds are routinely medicated with antibiotics, to minimise disease risk and live very short lives, with not enough time to develop naturally - a stressful existence, hardly conducive to the production of healthy, tasty meat, IMO! (I used to keep chickens, free range, in Devon, and the difference in flavour was astounding - friends went mad for the eggs, too! 
Another friend there, near Tiverton, used to take a few live chickens, each month, from a former 'battery farm' which used to rear chickens for a paste factory - he used to take about 6 each time and give them a new life, in his orchard - for the first 24 hours, they were stationary, unable to use their leg muscles, after 6 weeks in the cages. Bald patches, crushed wings, missing toes were all common. He has the videos - heartrending - most were, eventually rehabilitated and rehomed, once completely healthy! How anyone could expect to enjoy a meal deriving from such wretched birds, I cannot fathom - the reality is that 'cheap' meat or indeed 'cheap' eggs result from 'cheap' rearing methods which is bad for the creatures concerned, so cannot, surely, be expected to provide 'tasty' food. The answer, for me, when living in the UK, was to eat less meat and to pay more for it. Hard to do, for some, but there are alternatives, so why eat poorly produced and tasteless rubbish?
giritana.


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## Xose

wjbvo said:


> Supermarkets are much better in the UK, better quality and better prices. It's absolutely horrible what they sell you here, especially the meat.


Surely you jest!

It's been written about, analyzed, funny women on TV saying things like "potentially lethal!!" and so on for years if not since the early 90's. We don't know what we're eating in the UK! Haven't done since "XXXX" Sausages contained more fat/bread/ground "left bits" and lord knows what else than anything else - and the government sanctioned it with a "must have at least 3% meat  or whatever it was.

Butchers shops started dying out - wayyyy back. Proper corner shops (not mini marts) even before them. The Tesco's rule and people get what sells.. i.e. tasty, not healthy necessarily. It's totally driven by them and the media machine. The days of mum popping down the market, neighbours plot, small shop selling local produce, butchers in the high street or the local supermarket with major butchers and fishmonger are long gone in the UK. Not so here. Is it possible that these things have died off in the South of Spain? Surely not?

Up north it's even more contrasting. They still have the "matanza" here and people get to eat "fresh meat" in a manner most can't even imagine. The stuff's still warm for pete's sake


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## Stravinsky

wjbvo said:


> Supermarkets are much better in the UK, better quality and better prices. It's absolutely horrible what they sell you here, especially the meat.


Welcome to the forums, and what a post to start!!

I have to strongly disagree I'm afraid. One of the things I immediately noticed when we came here was the variation and choice of foods in the supermarkets here.

The fish counter in Tesco's looks a little sad and pathetic compared to even the local Mercadonna here where (with the exception of Mondays) the quality and freshness is brilliant.

The cheese counters in Carrefour offers nearly every cheese you can think of, compared to the couterparts in Spain is far superior. The local meat counter in Eroski (would you believe) is absolutely excellent.

I find the fruit lacking a bit from time to time, but overall the quality and choice is far better here in this part of Spain ..... mind you it does have quite an agricultural history around here


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## xabiaxica

Stravinsky said:


> Welcome to the forums, and what a post to start!!
> 
> I have to strongly disagree I'm afraid. One of the things I immediately noticed when we came here was the variation and choice of foods in the supermarkets here.
> 
> The fish counter in Tesco's looks a little sad and pathetic compared to even the local Mercadonna here where (with the exception of Mondays) the quality and freshness is brilliant.
> 
> The cheese counters in Carrefour offers nearly every cheese you can think of, compared to the couterparts in Spain is far superior. The local meat counter in Eroski (would you believe) is absolutely excellent.
> 
> I find the fruit lacking a bit from time to time, but overall the quality and choice is far better here in this part of Spain ..... mind you it does have quite an agricultural history around here


I sometimes think that we don't have the variety of fruit here as in the UK - then I remember that by and large we get our fruit here in season - not everything all year round


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## AfroSaxon

Xose said:


> Surely you jest!
> 
> We don't know what we're eating in the UK! Haven't done since "XXXX" Sausages contained more fat/bread/ground "left bits" and lord knows what else than anything else - and the government sanctioned it with a "must have at least 3% meat  or whatever it was.


Well I don't eat 'misery meat' here in England and certainly wouldn't expect to anywhere else if I can help it. Same goes for eggs....and yes, you can tell the difference. If I ever eat a sausage again, it'll be home made for sure....none of this X% meat content nonsense.

People are starting to suffer from more and more food related illnesses in the UK...it's terrible, and i'm not just talking about the obvious fatty fast foods. Every member of my immediate family and close in-laws have some form of allergy or intolerance. We have no idea what they're putting in our daily bread. It's very strange....15-20 years ago, none of us had these conditions.

I'd definitely miss the british bacon though. Nice and thick with the RIND ON


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## Stravinsky

xabiachica said:


> I sometimes think that we don't have the variety of fruit here as in the UK - then I remember that by and large we get our fruit here in season - not everything all year round


Thats what it used to be in the UK in the 60's in relation to fruit and veg .... because we didn't import such foods so much. So we had what was in season at the time, and when it wasnt in season ... we didnt have it!


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## xabiaxica

Stravinsky said:


> Thats what it used to be in the UK in the 60's in relation to fruit and veg .... because we didn't import such foods so much. So we had what was in season at the time, and when it wasnt in season ... we didnt have it!


I don't remember the 60s

I was only little


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## jojo

xabiachica said:


> I don't remember the 60s
> 
> I was only little


Me too!!


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## Stravinsky

xabiachica said:


> I don't remember the 60s
> 
> I was only little


So was I, but I remember I got peas a lot!


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## gus-lopez

Xose said:


> Surely you jest!
> 
> It's been written about, analyzed, funny women on TV saying things like "potentially lethal!!" and so on for years if not since the early 90's. We don't know what we're eating in the UK! Haven't done since "XXXX" Sausages contained more fat/bread/ground "left bits" and lord knows what else than anything else - and the government sanctioned it with a "must have at least 3% meat  or whatever it was.
> 
> Butchers shops started dying out - wayyyy back. Proper corner shops (not mini marts) even before them. The Tesco's rule and people get what sells.. i.e. tasty, not healthy necessarily. It's totally driven by them and the media machine. The days of mum popping down the market, neighbours plot, small shop selling local produce, butchers in the high street or the local supermarket with major butchers and fishmonger are long gone in the UK. Not so here. Is it possible that these things have died off in the South of Spain? Surely not?
> 
> Up north it's even more contrasting. They still have the "matanza" here and people get to eat "fresh meat" in a manner most can't even imagine. The stuff's still warm for pete's sake


I'm with you on this . I never ate pork in the UK , wouldn't touch it with a bargepole yet here even my wife commentson the fact that I eat it & the taste & flavour is excellent. Chicken here has taste, texture & flavour that I couldn't believe at first & on a trip back to the UK ,5 years ago I was reminded how dry & unappetising the UK chicken was. No the matanza hasn't died out , at least not here in Lorca but there are not as many doing it as when I first came 8 years ago. Maybe the younger family members are not as keen & it will eventually go the way of many other traditions ? My neighbours don't do it any more since they stopped breeding pigs & now only have Chato de murcianos to try & keep the breed in existence. It was an eye opener to me to see how to make soap from pig fat , something that died out 50+ years ago in the UK.


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## gabriele

jojo said:


> I suspect this isnt going to be a busy thread, but does anyone have anything that can be seen as positive about moving back to Britain?? Since that's what I'm faced with
> 
> My list so far:
> 
> *Language,
> *Knowledge of the SS/legal systems, way of life and the way things work etc
> *Being close to family and friends again
> *Road systems are clearer and better
> *central heating, carpets, cosy houses etc
> *not so many mozzies
> 
> Can anyone add anything please???????
> 
> Jo xxx


Great Britain is famous for many colleges and excellent private schools. You have a huge supply of different schools and universities. Want to learn children book illustration? Britain has it all. You need no nerv breaking homologonizacion, either, if you know what I mean. The UK has beautiful roses and the Chelsea flower shows. It has fascinating horse races and horse betting, which may be exciting for many. 
It has a real music scene which hums, hey? Fantastic pubs, right ? Perhaps a bit more expensive than in Spain but, real pubs. 
The UK fog may be romantic... So all depends on how you look at it. 
I would almost think that unemployment isn't as bad as in Spain, either. The only real real difference in Spain is different beaches and sunshine. The country side and architecture is also not alike.


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## Pesky Wesky

Get ready for it - many of you who have read some of my previous posts won't believe this, but here are some positive thoughts about the UK
I haven't read through all of the thread, but I don't think anyone has mentioned the parks in the UK. They are beautiful! Something I never appreciated when I was here. This afternoon we went to a local park packed full of flowers, the band was playing and the sun was out. Very nice indeed.

I also love all the old houses and buildings that you can visit like the national trust properties. Tomorrow we're going to St. Fagans in Wales which promises to be a great day out.

Ah, don't forget the beer - and have I ever mentioned the cream cakes?? Today I had profiteroles with approx half a pint of cream on. Yum Yum.

Can I have my medal for finding some good things to say about the homeland now please?


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## Dolphin.

Im gonna miss the nightlife.. im from manchester and its amazing


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