# Do we have a realistic chance of finding work in Spain?



## Objectionne (Jan 7, 2016)

Hi,

I'm a British guy, my girlfriend is Filipina and later this year we're looking to get married and move to Spain.

Right now we both live in Taiwan where I'm an English teacher and she's a factory worker. Our plan is to get married and move to Europe around September or October of this year and we would like to move to Spain.

However, given the economy in Spain right now we're worried that we won't be able to find jobs.

Although I'm an English teacher now, I have a degree in Software Engineering and would like to go back to working in software if possible. I completed a year long paid internship during my degree so I have a year of work experience, but it'll have been two years since I got my degree by the time I'll be applying for jobs and I've had no experience since then. I would be completely open to pursuing other jobs but I figure my best shot is with software, right?

As for my girlfriend, her only qualification is a high school diploma from the Philippines but she has more than eight years of experience working in factories. She's not that fussy about what job she gets and would be pretty happy just working in McDonald's (she's coming from working twelve hour night shifts at a factory in Taiwan, after all).

In terms of language, I can speak at a low intermediate level, by which I mean I have no trouble holding down a basic conversation with a native speaker but I'm not that fluent. She can only speak at a very basic level. We still have eight or nine months before we're planning on moving though so hopefully we'll improve a lot in that time.

We're hoping to move to Valencia, but we'd definitely consider other locations in Spain if we can get work there.

So, what do you think? Given the information in this post, do you think we'd both stand a reasonable chance of securing employment in Spain if we were to move there or would we be better off looking elsewhere in Europe?

Any help or advice with this would be much appreciated.


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## thrax (Nov 13, 2008)

Hi and welcome to the forum. You will get a number of responses on here which may sound to you to be very negative; they aren't but just trying to impress upon you the truth about work prospects here. Basically, unemployment is very high, particularly in the under 25 demographic. Your very best bet would be to try and find an offer of work in your chosen profession before moving here. Such a contract will give you some stability as well as access to healthcare. To live here you will need to register as a resident and to do so you have to prove income of around €600 per month per person as well as offering proof of healthcare (which, without employment) will need to be private. None of the above means it is impossible to find work; it isn't. But it won't be easy and many jobs offer very low wages which might not be what you are looking for. If you can afford to do it, a very good idea would be to visit Spain (Valencia first as that is where you would like to live) and get a feel, first hand, for what the employment situation is really like.

Good luck!!!


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## Chopera (Apr 22, 2013)

If you came to Madrid in September you'd probably be able to pick up teaching work immediately, while you can work on your Spanish and try applying for software jobs at the same time. I work in web development in Madrid and, once you are fluent in Spanish and have a couple of years experience with "in-demand" technologies you should be confident of finding something.

As ever, the problem is in gaining those first few years of experience. A possibility could be to get yourself set up on something like GitHub and start contributing to open source projects like this one:

https://github.com/FreeCodeCamp/FreeCodeCamp

(or choose one that fits the area you want to work in)

Once you have a portfolio of code that you can demo, with fluent Spanish and native English you should be ok.

I'm not sure about factory work, but if your girlfriend speaks fluent English then that might be more valuable. E.g. she might be able to find work as a live-out nanny.


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## svlinda (Aug 31, 2015)

Hi!! Valencia is a great choice, I´ve been here for 8 years and not moving anywhere  I think it wouldn´t be difficult to find a job as an English teacher but the wages are very low and it´s not easy to get full time position as a teacher. For example, some of my friends teach English at Academies for 8 EUR an hour, and on average teachers are paid from 10 to 15 EUR an hour. Of course, the living expense is lower then in other places in Europe!


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

svlinda said:


> Hi!! Valencia is a great choice, I´ve been here for 8 years and not moving anywhere  I think it wouldn´t be difficult to find a job as an English teacher but the wages are very low and it´s not easy to get full time position as a teacher. For example, some of my friends teach English at Academies for 8 EUR an hour, and on average teachers are paid from 10 to 15 EUR an hour. Of course, the living expense is lower then in other places in Europe!


Is that with a contract or as autonomo?


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## svlinda (Aug 31, 2015)

snikpoh said:


> Is that with a contract or as autonomo?


Well it depends on each employer - and it´s not uncommon to employ people with no contract at all, unfortunately that´s the reality. 

I wouldn´t recommend to be autonomo unless you have a good business plan on how to earn money, beeing a regular teacher + and registered as autonomo sounds like beeing poor.


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## svlinda (Aug 31, 2015)

Objectionne said:


> Hi,
> 
> As for my girlfriend, her only qualification is a high school diploma from the Philippines but she has more than eight years of experience working in factories. She's not that fussy about what job she gets and would be pretty happy just working in McDonald's (she's coming from working twelve hour night shifts at a factory in Taiwan, after all).
> 
> In terms of language, I can speak at a low intermediate level, by which I mean I have no trouble holding down a basic conversation with a native speaker but I'm not that fluent. She can only speak at a very basic level. We still have eight or nine months before we're planning on moving though so hopefully we'll improve a lot in that time.


If your destination is Valencia and your girlfriend would look for any job like McDonald´s for example, it would be a good idea to start improving her Spanish asap - locals simply don´t speak English, be prepared  But be positive, it´s all possible! When I moved, I didn´t speak a word in Spanish and I found my first job at McDonalds in the first month!! Actually the wage there is not bad comparing to other places.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

svlinda said:


> Well it depends on each employer - and it´s not uncommon to employ people with no contract at all, unfortunately that´s the reality.
> 
> I wouldn´t recommend to be autonomo unless you have a good business plan on how to earn money, beeing a regular teacher + and registered as autonomo sounds like beeing poor.


I'm a language teacher - & registered autónomo - & I'm not the only one on the forum. I support myself & teenage daughter (& help my elder daughter who is working & doesn't live with me out as well ) 

If you are working without a contract, then you are self-employed...... & need to be registered as such.


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## svlinda (Aug 31, 2015)

If you don´t have enough teaching hours and you earn what you earn, beeing autonomo can be an expensive thing - not everyone can afford paying 250 EUR a month for social security regardless of your income (and even if you don´t have any)  
Plus, if you work for an Academy at their facilities, is more beeing an employee and you should have a legal work contract. If the Academy doesn´t provide that, I don´t see it as teachers responsibility to become autonomo. I think it´s the Academy not obeying the Law and actually avoiding paying tax.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

svlinda said:


> If you don´t have enough teaching hours and you earn what you earn, beeing autonomo can be an expensive thing - not everyone can afford paying 250 EUR a month for social security regardless of your income (and even if you don´t have any)
> Plus, if you work for an Academy at their facilities, is more beeing an employee and you should have a legal work contract. If the Academy doesn´t provide that, I don´t see it as teachers responsibility to become autonomo. I think it´s the Academy not obeying the Law and actually avoiding paying tax.


Yes it's expensive - I pay nearly 290€ a month autónomo - plus tax of course. 

If you have no work you can 'baja' & not pay anything - it's what most of us do in the summer, or at least for part of the summer. 

If someone doesn't have enough teaching hours to be 'legal', then perhaps they need to be looking for a different way to support themselves!


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

svlinda said:


> If you don´t have enough teaching hours and you earn what you earn, beeing autonomo can be an expensive thing - not everyone can afford paying 250 EUR a month for social security regardless of your income (and even if you don´t have any)
> Plus, if you work for an Academy at their facilities, is more beeing an employee and you should have a legal work contract. If the Academy doesn´t provide that, I don´t see it as teachers responsibility to become autonomo. I think it´s the Academy not obeying the Law and actually avoiding paying tax.


It's everyone's responsibility to comply with laws regarding employment and taxes, surely.
Working cash-in-hand, on the black, is illegal, isn't it?


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## Chopera (Apr 22, 2013)

xabiachica said:


> Yes it's expensive - I pay nearly 290€ a month autónomo - plus tax of course.
> 
> If you have no work you can 'baja' & not pay anything - it's what most of us do in the summer, or at least for part of the summer.
> 
> If someone doesn't have enough teaching hours to be 'legal', then perhaps they need to be looking for a different way to support themselves!


Out of interest (and apologies for taking the thread of topic) - but I assume the autonomo payments are tax deductible, right? I mean say you earn €1000/month, pay €250/month autonomo, then any income tax is payable against the remaining €750 only?


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Chopera said:


> Out of interest (and apologies for taking the thread of topic) - but I assume the autonomo payments are tax deductible, right? I mean say you earn €1000/month, pay €250/month autonomo, then any income tax is payable against the remaining €750 only?


I'm not sure - my gestor does everything for me! He saves me way more than he costs me every quarter.

I _think _you're right though.


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## Chopera (Apr 22, 2013)

xabiachica said:


> I'm not sure - my gestor does everything for me! He saves me way more than he costs me every quarter.
> 
> I _think _you're right though.


I checked and I'm pretty sure it is. The point I was getting round to is that if you earn say a steady €1000/month as an autonomo then €260 month is reasonable provided you don't pay much tax on top of it. 

Having said that, I dislike the autonomo system intensely because it is overly convoluted and puts people off becoming freelance when we are entering an age when work is becoming ever more freelance by nature.


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## Objectionne (Jan 7, 2016)

Thanks very much for the information everyone! I guess the main takeaway from this is that we both need to work on our Spanish a lot and maybe we should research a few other countries in Europe to see if we might have an easier time there.

Thanks!


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

This article has a graph of unemployment rates across Europe as of last October - that might be a starting point as far as looking for work in Europe is concerned.

Only Greece has worse unemployment than Spain. Top 5 (lowest unemployment) are 
1. Germany
2. Czech Republic
3. Malta
4. Great Britain
5. Austria.

• Unemployment rate in EU countries 2015 | Statistic


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## Chopera (Apr 22, 2013)

Objectionne said:


> Thanks very much for the information everyone! I guess the main takeaway from this is that we both need to work on our Spanish a lot and maybe we should research a few other countries in Europe to see if we might have an easier time there.
> 
> Thanks!


Yes. My feelings are that you could do it Madrid, but it would take a few years of sacrifice, and it would probably only be worth it if you had some particular passion for living in Spain. If you've just picked Spain out of a hat then it's probably best to keep looking.


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## el romeral (May 8, 2012)

xabiachica said:


> This article has a graph of unemployment rates across Europe as of last October - that might be a starting point as far as looking for work in Europe is concerned.
> 
> Only Greece has worse unemployment than Spain. Top 5 (lowest unemployment) are
> 1. Germany
> ...


Spain's position on the graph will be significantly further up due to the huge black economy. Daft rules like the autonomo system do not help.


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## jamoct (Nov 6, 2015)

Objectionne said:


> Thanks very much for the information everyone! I guess the main takeaway from this is that we both need to work on our Spanish a lot and maybe we should research a few other countries in Europe to see if we might have an easier time there.
> 
> Thanks!


Hello,

I am Filipina and living here in Barcelona with my Spanish husband. I would suggest that your girlfriend needs to work on her English if she wants to find jobs here. I speak only basic Spanish (but still continuing my Spanish classes) but I did get a job here in less than 2 months of arriving through the InfoJobs website. (I speak English fluently and a university graduate.)

But let me just give you a heads up that the whole immigration thing here is absolutely crazy, as you have to undergo a lot of documents and visits to the offices to get all sorted out. 

In terms of you "marrying her", please do make sure you have all the documents (birth certificates, etc.) if you are planning to marry in the Philippines as that is another thing (although I know UK has the fiancee visa). As Spain did not have the aforementioned visa, we had to marry first in Filipinas before we made the big move here.


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## chrisnation (Mar 2, 2009)

mrypg9 said:


> It's everyone's responsibility to comply with laws regarding employment and taxes, surely.
> Working cash-in-hand, on the black, is illegal, isn't it?


Yes and yes. But experience this week showed that despite my noisy protestations about doing things without observing the letter of the law, the Spanish with whom I dealt found my reluctance to duck and dive quaint and amusing. It was made perfectly clear that if I remained unwilling, they'd dispense with my custom and deal with someone more accommodating.

It is, as a previous post noted, how things are commonly done. Common practice doesn't make it right but the casual attitude to avoiding compliance at all levels and all fields of Spanish life has come as a real eye-opener. 

My attitude from now on is to observe the rules if I can but if the locals won't, I will not cut off my nose to spite my northern european face.


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## chrisnation (Mar 2, 2009)

mrypg9 said:


> It's everyone's responsibility to comply with laws regarding employment and taxes, surely.
> Working cash-in-hand, on the black, is illegal, isn't it?


Answers: Yes and yes.

But my experience this week in trying to do things in compliance with the law has been an eye opener. Despite making quite a lot of noise about doing it right, I was regarded as amusingly eccentric, quaintly British and not to be taken seriously.

In fact, the serious point came when it was made clear that if I insisted on doing it by the book, there was a queue behind me of more accommodating punters, any one of whom would be happy to do the biz. I could take my northern european scruples and look elsewhere.

My attitude now is to comply where possible but, in the face of the local tendency not to, at all levels and in all fields, to avoid cutting off my saintly nose to spite my Ango-Saxon face.

I look forward to pulling off the sort of stunt which a friend told me about. He reduced an absurd, exorbitant charge for some banking from some hundreds of euros to a few tens and a bunch of flowers.

In the position of the OP, I'd take any legal work and deal with the admin according to the m.o. of the employer.


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## el romeral (May 8, 2012)

Most locals only follow the rules loosely at best, so I would not worry too much. Spain as a country does not set a terribly good example either lol.


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## DreamDoLove (Jan 16, 2016)

Objectionne said:


> Hi,
> 
> I'm a British guy, my girlfriend is Filipina and later this year we're looking to get married and move to Spain.
> 
> ...


Hi there, I can only speak about the TEFL part - I posted on a TEFL in Andalucía Facebook group as soon as my partner qualified (before Christmas) and got a reply straight away from someone needing a teacher (in Barbate) for Jan. He interviewed and got the job 2 days later, and we moved here on the 6th. He has a non-TESOL/CELTA qualification and a few years lecturing experience (from N Ireland, where we're from); with your experience and being a native speaker, it doesn't seem to me that it'd be hard for you to find TEFL work, if you needed that option. Once you're here and working you can of course network more easily for potential software jobs - there are lots of dev groups on Meetup.com for example.

I've an online business so can be anywhere; if there's anything you or your partner can do online, that's a big help. (I'm a life/biz/career coach, and have been coaching via Skype for years.) We're actually still officially enrolled in Finnish university but are writing up our theses here whilst working, rather than freezing our butts off another semester in Finland!  Working online is fantastic... All the best to you both!


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

xabiachica said:


> I'm a language teacher - & registered autónomo - & I'm not the only one on the forum. I support myself & teenage daughter (& help my elder daughter who is working & doesn't live with me out as well )
> 
> If you are working without a contract, then you are self-employed...... & need to be registered as such.






svlinda said:


> If you don´t have enough teaching hours and you earn what you earn, beeing autonomo can be an expensive thing - not everyone can afford paying 250 EUR a month for social security regardless of your income (and even if you don´t have any)
> Plus, if you work for an Academy at their facilities, is more beeing an employee and you should have a legal work contract. If the Academy doesn´t provide that, I don´t see it as teachers responsibility to become autonomo. I think it´s the Academy not obeying the Law and actually avoiding paying tax.




I have recently registered as Autonomo. I work in a local English School, I facilitate conversational English Classes ( the teacher, teaches the grammar, I do the "practice" ) I earn enough per month to just about cover my autonomo. I could not live on this money, but the real pro for me is, we are both covered for State health care. Because of a pre-existing medical condition, that although not serious, caused a hiccup in the PHI, this was the best route for us to go down. Its the law, its the rules and you make your choices. If you cannot make enough to cover living expenses then your in the wrong job. I could sit here and moan at the costs, but I do not, I look at the positives, I am happy paying into the system, and not looking over my shoulder. 

Interesting about going Bajo (sp) in the holidays, I will speak to my Gestor


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