# Income tax in Italy



## HDMonza

Can anyone point me to a web-site on that matter?
Or better estimate the tax payments (all and all: tax, social security etc.) for a monthly salary of gross 3,000Eu and a gross 5,000Eu?

Thanks in advance.


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## mickisue

Someone else correct me if I'm wrong. But my understanding, from the employment contracts that my DD has received, goes like this: your salary is your salary. Let's say the 3000 euros. Anything over and above that is paid on your behalf as income, medical care, etc, taxes. 

If I am correct, then the 2000 over and above the 3000 is your taxes, paid for you. 

Does that sound right?


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## kostermar

Yes it would be nice to find out about paying tax in Italy? Supposedly supposed to be the highest in Europe? We are thinking of retiring there and havenot a clue?


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## PPeters

You can become an Italian resident if you can pay the rent or buy a house. After my experiences here in trying to set up an international company based from Italy, i can only advice to avoid the system here like the plague..


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## kostermar

PPeters said:


> You can become an Italian resident if you can pay the rent or buy a house. After my experiences here in trying to set up an international company based from Italy, i can only advice to avoid the system here like the plague..


Thanks, thats what I have heard from many others.


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## PPeters

Well, Italy is heaven and hell interpenetrated. It is absolutely a beautiful country with incredible kindhearted people, but it also a country which has been abusive of these same people for nearly a century and fosters a culture of mistrust.
For years I worked 70 hour workweeks to set up my company, earned nearly a million euro in the 4 years upto 2009, but was paying so much tax and other officialia i couldn't even survive a pause of more than one month. The first year starts with a double taxation, and even the reimbursement of my foreign expenses were taxed. 

Its not so bad that things are corrupt, that may be one of the systems that actually works, but its the double standards and you as a foreigner will be hit hard by not joining the party but are taxed in a way assuming you're hiding about 2/3rd of your income. 

Who to blame that they are misrepresenting a system which is misrepresenting itself? Do i need to sue my accountant because he wasn't corrupt enought in my favor? 

So.. it's people heaven, business hell.. Best to set up something legitimate in some other country.


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## kostermar

Well we are going to retire in Italy and hopefully buy a house, what we need to know, is what is tax deductible as a pensioner?


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## PPeters

What region do you have in mind? Do you have a local intermediary, an Italian that is not in the business of selling houses to foreigners? Part of the payment is kept 'off the record' and part is done officially, and it depends on the person and the property what the balance is. 
I live in the neighbourhood of a large EU research center, where upto some 15-20 years ago people would have diplomatic immunity and pay no taxes. So, at the moment a seller notices you're a foreigner the price goes up with at least 100%.

i'd check the embassy to see for any bi-literal arrangement such as avoiding double taxation, but there are about eight different reasons you can get a 'permesso di sogiorno' and one is the ability to pay the rent, or at least afford accomodation. If you can demonstrate that there should be no issue. 
There may be more benefits to maintaining a 'special' status though, such as a long term stay, as the Italian government, national and regional, is effectively as bankrupt as Greece was but for some 800 billion euro, so i'd avoid any means of entering the taxation system. It is not fair by any measure.


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## kostermar

*retiring in Italy taxation*



PPeters said:


> What region do you have in mind? Do you have a local intermediary, an Italian that is not in the business of selling houses to foreigners? Part of the payment is kept 'off the record' and part is done officially, and it depends on the person and the property what the balance is.
> I live in the neighbourhood of a large EU research center, where upto some 15-20 years ago people would have diplomatic immunity and pay no taxes. So, at the moment a seller notices you're a foreigner the price goes up with at least 100%.
> 
> i'd check the embassy to see for any bi-literal arrangement such as avoiding double taxation, but there are about eight different reasons you can get a 'permesso di sogiorno' and one is the ability to pay the rent, or at least afford accomodation. If you can demonstrate that there should be no issue.
> There may be more benefits to maintaining a 'special' status though, such as a long term stay, as the Italian government, national and regional, is effectively as bankrupt as Greece was but for some 800 billion euro, so i'd avoid any means of entering the taxation system. It is not fair by any measure.


We were thinking of the Umbria region and no we dont really know anyone apart from various agents there. We thought it would be better to rent for say three to six months first and have a good look around. No I dont really want to enter the taxation system, just live a good life in safety. I do have family south of Naples, but I'm afraid there is a different type of mentality, totally.


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