# Dependent (other than spouse and kids) including applicants.. Please Join in



## lovetosmack (Apr 22, 2013)

Hi All 

If you are planning to include or have included dependents let's talk here and discuss about our situation.

Thanks


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## lovetosmack (Apr 22, 2013)

Bump---


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## Santhosh.15 (Nov 16, 2013)

lovetosmack said:


> Bump---


Subscribed, my friend !! LoL...


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## Reca (May 26, 2014)

Dear Friends,

Please someone advise me, if we dont have any bank statements to proof the dependancy, what kind of alternative documents we can provide to case officer.

Thanks


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## rockyrambo (Apr 22, 2013)

Reca said:


> Dear Friends,
> 
> Please someone advise me, if we dont have any bank statements to proof the dependancy, what kind of alternative documents we can provide to case officer.
> 
> Thanks


bank statements serve a purpose to prove financial dependency. If you can prove that the dependent has been living in your household for some time and has no income. For example, a reitrement certificate for a senior , his/her employment resignation, etc. Then, there are no other earning members in the family. So, if you're the only one earning and the dependent is staying with you, it implies that you're proving him/her food, shelter and clothing.. bank statements come in very handy to do that.. so you've to think of all other evidences which corroborate these things..


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## rockyrambo (Apr 22, 2013)

*Dependency conditions*

A dependent relative must be your brother, sister, grandparent, grandchild, aunt, uncle, niece, nephew or step equivalent.

For any dependent relative that you include in your visa application, you must provide evidence of their:

•relationship to you
•dependency on you
•relationship status (whether they are married, in a de facto relationship, divorced or separated).
This evidence includes:

•a certified copy of their birth certificate and proof of their relationship to you
•documents showing that the relative lives in your household
•documents showing that your relative has been dependent on you for at least the 12 months immediately before you lodge your application.

Your other relatives will be considered dependent if all of the following apply: 

•they do not have a spouse or de facto partner
•they usually live with you
•they are wholly or substantially reliant on your financial support for their basic living needs (food, shelter and clothing)
•they are more reliant on you for support than on any other person or source
•they have relied on you for at least the 12 months immediately before you lodge your application.


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## Reca (May 26, 2014)

rockyrambo said:


> bank statements serve a purpose to prove financial dependency. If you can prove that the dependent has been living in your household for some time and has no income. For example, a reitrement certificate for a senior , his/her employment resignation, etc. Then, there are no other earning members in the family. So, if you're the only one earning and the dependent is staying with you, it implies that you're proving him/her food, shelter and clothing.. bank statements come in very handy to do that.. so you've to think of all other evidences which corroborate these things..


Hi Friend,

Thanks for your quick reply. But my father do not have any income and he does not holding any account. He is staying in my house and I am paying the rent.

In this case can I show the rental agreemant and getting a affidavit from lawer saying that he is dependant on us financially will work out? is it acceptable by case officer.

Thanks


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## rockyrambo (Apr 22, 2013)

rockyrambo said:


> *Dependency conditions*
> 
> A dependent relative must be your brother, sister, grandparent, grandchild, aunt, uncle, niece, nephew or step equivalent.
> 
> ...


Here's my opinion on the conditions : 
a. they have relied on you for at least the 12 months immediately before you lodge your application. 
b. they usually live with you


1. The inherent reasons for posing such conditions is to avoid fraud. Example cases of fraud for dependency would be: when someone nominates X as dependent but has evidence to show for only, let's say, 6 months immediately prior to the application ; when someone nominates X as dependent but has evidence to show for only, let's say, 12 months two years prior to the application. Cases such as these could be flagged as fraud by DIAC. It is unlikely for a dependent to be dependent on you in the past and not at present. Additionally, less than 12 months of evidence is not sufficient for proving dependency. 
Since, you're including a dependent at the time of the application, he/she has to be currently dependent on you and has been dependent on you for a sufficient period of time. Hence, this explains the at least 12 month immediately prior reliance condition.

2. The word 'reliance': This means that we need to prove the dependency for at least 12 months immediately prior to the application. This means we need to provide evidences for the following for at least 12 months immediately prior to the application:
-financial support
-no relationship of the dependent
-usual residence in the primary's household

Here, the greater the tenure of the dependency, the stronger the case.

3. Usual residence in the primary's household: Let's say, if there's a relative X dependent on someone and there is an evidence for financial support and no relationship of X but X lives in a separate household. 'X' has never lived in the primary's household. This should again raise a flag for a fraud case because, if the relationship is strong enough for X to recieve money and X has no partner of his/her own, then X needs more than financial support. X shouldn't stay at a rented house separately from the primary. This would definitely indicate that there is some sort of an obligation or 'strain' in the relationship of X with the primary. In other words, the primary is just paying X money and telling him/her to take care of himself/herself on his/her own. There is no 'togetherness' in the relationship.

However, 'usually', doesn't mean that the dependent has lived for ALL 12 months immediately prior to the application with the primary. It is great to have if other evidences are falling weak but not a necessity. Let's say, if one is not able to provide any evidence for more than 12 months, then it is good to have it, however, if one has a history of dependency for 7-8 years then a 12 month period is miniscule in front of it in terms of its power to corroborate the dependency. That is also the reason that form 47a doesnt ask the question "Has the dependent lived with the primary applicant for at least 12 month prior to application?" but the question "Is the dependent's current address the same as that of the primary?"

A fraud can be committed even with a 12 month evidence. DIBP understand that, hence, these conditions are supposedly taken in totality and not as a piece by piece cast in stone dictums!! I think these are only guidelines for the case officer to reduce the element of bias and subjectivity in the system. It is completely another thing to use to them to judge a case.

Just my opinion. - others might chime in with theirs..!!


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## rockyrambo (Apr 22, 2013)

Reca said:


> Hi Friend,
> 
> Thanks for your quick reply. But my father do not have any income and he does not holding any account. He is staying in my house and I am paying the rent.
> 
> ...


Besides that, can you not provide evidence on the folllowing?
1. the resignation letter of your father assuming he was in service
2. the closure of his shop/business, etc assuming he was doing some business
3. statutory declaration by the father stating that he has no income because he stopped working sometime before, his son /daughter is givng him at least $ X for food/clothing/shelter which he is withdrawing through ATM, etc. (you can support the ATM withdrawls through your bank statements)
4. his medical , phone, etc bills paid by you

how long has your father been dependent on you?


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## Reca (May 26, 2014)

rockyrambo said:


> Besides that, can you not provide evidence on the folllowing?
> 1. the resignation letter of your father assuming he was in service
> 2. the closure of his shop/business, etc assuming he was doing some business
> 3. statutory declaration by the father stating that he has no income because he stopped working sometime before, his son /daughter is givng him at least $ X for food/clothing/shelter which he is withdrawing through ATM, etc. (you can support the ATM withdrawls through your bank statements)
> ...


Hi friend,

I will try to collect all the above said docs and i will get back to u.

Thanks


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## war (Jun 23, 2014)

Hi All,

I am planning to include my mother-in-law and brother-in-law in my application for 189.
My father-in-law passed away on December 2012. Since January 2013 my mother-in-law and brother-in-law live with us. My brother-in-law is 21 year old, student. We pay his tuition fee, the rent of house. They are completely dependent on us. But the question is how do we prove that? How do we prove they live with us as well?

All the payments that we do in our country are by cash. So, payment evidence is hard to manage. Mother-in-law has a bank account with minimal balance. So, will it be sufficient to show her bank statement? Will a legal affidavit saying that they live with us and depend on us be acceptable as proof?

We are thinking of requesting bank to mail her statements regularly to the residence address. I guess that can be a proof to show that we live in a same house.

Should we also request brother-in-law's university to mail the semester results?

I am really confused at what should be enough to prove dependency!!!!

Please help!


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## lovetosmack (Apr 22, 2013)

You need to show their individual addresses to be the same as yours as old as January 2013. To prove a 21 year old brother-in-law could be way too difficult than to prove your own siblings.

* Are you transferring money to their accounts regularly ?
* What is the length of the course of your BIL study ?
* Can you MIL survive on the minimal balance for herself ? Does she have any property or revenue generating assets ?
* How many kids does your MIL have ?

Cash transfers are very hard to prove.

Creating proofs now won't add much credibility to your application. The onus to prove the dependency lies on the applicant. With a lot of documentation itself, it is getting a bit tedious. I don't mean to water down your hopes but all I'm saying is more the documentations easier it is.


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## war (Jun 23, 2014)

Dear lovetosmack,

Thanks for your reply. Please see below for your answers.

No, I do not transfer money to her account. As she lives with us, we do not need to pay her anything.
BIL has two more semesters to complete his Bachelor.
No, MIL won't be able to survive with the minimal balance.
MIL has two daughter and one son. One daughter is my wife, another one lives is Australia, she is not employed.

I know, it's difficult to gather documentation. But if there's a list of documents that will work, I can try to gather those.


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## lovetosmack (Apr 22, 2013)

war said:


> Dear lovetosmack,
> 
> Thanks for your reply. Please see below for your answers.
> 
> ...


What is the other daughter doing ? Is she a citizen or a PR ? Is she married ?
Who is paying the education fees for your BIL ?
How old is your MIL ? Does she have any medical conditions ?

The minimal list of documents to prove dependency would be:

* Address Proofs ( Bank Statements, Rental agreements, etc )
* No Income Proofs ( For MIl, NIL showing their bank statements )
* FIL death certificate
* College/University letters mentioning that you are his guardian
* College/University letters mentioning that you are paying his fees

I guess you are also aware that they have to clear Medical (& Character) too. Else the whole application will be rejected,


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## Expat2013 (May 15, 2013)

lovetosmack said:


> What is the other daughter doing ? Is she a citizen or a PR ? Is she married ?
> Who is paying the education fees for your BIL ?
> How old is your MIL ? Does she have any medical conditions ?
> 
> ...


*Lovetosmack, I have a question.
For the case where there is some income for dependent e.g. pension which is not significant. Let's say around $30 a month. This amount is not enough to make their living by their own. What do you reckon for this situation ??

Seniors, please jump in.*


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## lovetosmack (Apr 22, 2013)

Sure that won't be a problem at all even if it's regular little money. I know of a couple of people who got their PRs for their mothers even when they were getting regular little money.

But what is 'little' is ambiguous. COs understand what's little and the cost of living when assessing financial dependence.


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## rockyrambo (Apr 22, 2013)

Expat2013 said:


> *Lovetosmack, I have a question.
> For the case where there is some income for dependent e.g. pension which is not significant. Let's say around $30 a month. This amount is not enough to make their living by their own. What do you reckon for this situation ??
> 
> Seniors, please jump in.*


I guess you're talking about pension from an Indian state govt. In that case, please also try to prove that the maximum amount that the dependent can ever get will be $30 per month. You can try to gather a) historical data of the pension received by the dependent b) some document stating that Rs x is the amount of pension that a dependent can get under so and so indian govt scheme..i think this should be mentioned in the financial budget for that year.


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## skksundar (Apr 29, 2014)

*Question regarding pension amount*



lovetosmack said:


> Sure that won't be a problem at all even if it's regular little money. I know of a couple of people who got their PRs for their mothers even when they were getting regular little money.
> 
> But what is 'little' is ambiguous. COs understand what's little and the cost of living when assessing financial dependence.


Hello lovetosmack,

This gets interesting here. My Mother draws a pension of 200$ a month (Close to 9000 INR). Shall I still include her as dependent in my application? The house is a own property in my name, she's been living with me for the past 8 years. Proofs I have till date showing her dependency on me

1. Father's Demise Certificate
2. The ration card of our address is in her name 
3. Her bank account reflects our address
4. Gas bill in her name.
5. Legal Heirship certificate describing our relationship.
6. My elder bro is living at Melbourne.

Was thinking of even writing to DIAC to find out; but saw that you have started this conversation and felt writing here first!!


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## _shel (Mar 2, 2014)

skksundar said:


> Hello lovetosmack,
> 
> This gets interesting here. My Mother draws a pension of 200$ a month (Close to 9000 INR). Shall I still include her as dependent in my application? The house is a own property in my name, she's been living with me for the past 8 years. Proofs I have till date showing her dependency on me
> 
> ...


 The home you both live in. Is it owned or rented?


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## skksundar (Apr 29, 2014)

Hi Shel,

Its a property I bought and paying EMI currently.


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## lovetosmack (Apr 22, 2013)

@skksundar: How many children are you to your parents? What are they doing? Reg the pension I'll wait for _shel to talk more about it.. as I'm unsure looking at the amount. How old is your mom?


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## skksundar (Apr 29, 2014)

*adding clarifications.*



lovetosmack said:


> @skksundar: How many children are you to your parents? What are they doing? Reg the pension I'll wait for _shel to talk more about it.. as I'm unsure looking at the amount. How old is your mom?


Lovetosmack,

Thanks for the quick turn around. I appreciate.

1. For my Parents, we are 2 sons and My Elder brother is a PR at Melbourne, married and works as a contractor. 
2. My Father passed away about 10 years back. From 2006 my Mother is living with me at Chennai. 
3. She's about 56 years old now.


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## lovetosmack (Apr 22, 2013)

I guess you stand a chance in proving that she is your dependent. But I'm not sure if you can go for a dependent PR 189/190 visa or if you should go for a parent visa. 

_shel: In case he can apply for a PR visa, he doesn't have to go through the BoF test right? (I understand that he'd pass it though) as that applies only for Parent visas? Right?


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## skksundar (Apr 29, 2014)

Lovetosmack,
Thanks again. Let's see what the possibilities are!! 

Shel,
I appreciate your response in this matter. Regarding my mother's pension amount, please let me know your opinion which would be most important.


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## _shel (Mar 2, 2014)

Yes no balance of family test to add to 189/190

But, if she owns the home she lives in then the amount she needs to live on is less so one could survive on a small pension.


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## Expat2013 (May 15, 2013)

lovetosmack said:


> Sure that won't be a problem at all even if it's regular little money. I know of a couple of people who got their PRs for their mothers even when they were getting regular little money.
> 
> But what is 'little' is ambiguous. COs understand what's little and the cost of living when assessing financial dependence.




Thanks 'lovetosmack' for the response.
Yes, by little I meant $30 a month, also single parent doesn't own any property.
So cannot make a living on this income.


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## Expat2013 (May 15, 2013)

Do I need to submit Form 80 for single parent as well ??

Will be uploading Form 47A, which has got similar information.
That's why the question.


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## skksundar (Apr 29, 2014)

_shel said:


> Yes no balance of family test to add to 189/190
> 
> But, if she owns the home she lives in then the amount she needs to live on is less so one could survive on a small pension.


Shel,

Thanks for your response. My mother doesn't own the property, I do. And she cannot afford a home with her pension in current rentals. Do you think I stand a chance getting a PR if I apply for 189 including her in my list of dependents?


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## _shel (Mar 2, 2014)

skksundar said:


> Shel,
> 
> Thanks for your response. My mother doesn't own the property, I do. And she cannot afford a home with her pension in current rentals. Do you think I stand a chance getting a PR if I apply for 189 including her in my list of dependents?


 So you are planning on selling it before you apply for your visa and turfing her out? If you are both still living in it it is assumed she will/can continue to do so. 

I'm just telling it how the CO will look at it. She has somewhere to live rent free, hence a smaller pension will be enough to live off.


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## Expat2013 (May 15, 2013)

Expat2013 said:


> Do I need to submit Form 80 for single parent as well ??
> 
> Will be uploading Form 47A, which has got similar information.
> That's why the question.


Anyone ??


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## skksundar (Apr 29, 2014)

*Wow, that's a great view*



_shel said:


> So you are planning on selling it before you apply for your visa and turfing her out? If you are both still living in it it is assumed she will/can continue to do so.
> 
> I'm just telling it how the CO will look at it. She has somewhere to live rent free, hence a smaller pension will be enough to live off.


Shel,
Thanks to you so much for this insight!! I guess then I need to take the costlier route and get her a contributory parent Visa! Is it true that the contributory parent visa where we should pay around $50000, takes about 5 years to be grant ? 

--SSK.


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## lovetosmack (Apr 22, 2013)

Expat2013 said:


> Anyone ??


I'd say don't worry about it now. Do it when and if the CO asks for it.


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## _shel (Mar 2, 2014)

Expat2013 said:


> Anyone ??


 Yes, everyone over 18 should complete it. Personally I wouldn't wait. If you can give them as much as the information they may require upfront it saves them having to keeo asking you, giving you 28 days each time they ask during which period they are not processing your case!


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## war (Jun 23, 2014)

*Dependen MIL, BIL*

Thanks Lovetosmack. I appreciate. Please see below.



lovetosmack said:


> What is the other daughter doing ? Is she a citizen or a PR ? Is she married ?
> -- Yes, she's citizen and married.
> 
> Who is paying the education fees for your BIL ?
> ...


-- Does that mean if any one of us fails to clear Medical my whole application will be rejected? Or Case Officer would ask me to remove them from the application?

Thanks so much for your help!


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## lovetosmack (Apr 22, 2013)

war said:


> Thanks Lovetosmack. I appreciate. Please see below.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Short answer - Yes. If one fails medicals in the application, (which is a rare situation) the entire application will be rejected. This is if DIBP believes that they are your dependents and they cannot survive without you. Hence, they don't want to divide a family.

The CO will only give an option of removing the dependent when he/she does not believe them to be actually dependent on you & if they understand that they can survive without you.

It's a tricky situation. So, make your choice wisely.


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## war (Jun 23, 2014)

OK! That makes sense!

I had another question.. my wife is listed as guradian of BIL. Will that be an issue?


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## lovetosmack (Apr 22, 2013)

I don't think so. The dependency would be looked like BIL ---> Wife --> You. So, I'm guessing that won't be a problem. But do attach evidence for that so that it could support your claims.


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## war (Jun 23, 2014)

Thanks! I'll gather these documents. These seems to be achievable. Do you think of any other kind of document that can come handy?


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## lovetosmack (Apr 22, 2013)

Hmm... let's see.. I'd try to get a university letter stating that I pay the fees & that I'm the guardian, family book proving relationship, any other Govt IDs, rental agreements, etc. I can only think of these for now.


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## beavanessa (Jul 1, 2014)

*Statutory declaration*

Hello!

I hope you could help me with some documents for my visa. I am about to lodge my PR application with a de facto dependent. We have affidavit of cohabitation, joint account, statutory declaration from friends and relatives. I was just wondering if we need to make Each statutory declaration or a joint statutory declaration of our relationship? Thank you so much!


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## djagga (May 22, 2014)

Hi,

I need help. My case is a bit tricky. Here's the condition:

I am looking to apply the Australian PR in subclass 189. I have a concern regarding the sub applicants while applying for mine. 

I want to add my mother along with my application. However the following is the current situation:

My mother is a widower. She has been living with me in a rented accomodation for 3 months. I can wait for 9 months to complete the 1 year period for dependency if needed but i want to know is will regular rent agreement suffice for the purpose?

The second and the main question is regarding the financial dependency. My father was a pensioner. So my mother is now getting the family pension in her account. My father had bought a house in his and her name before he passed away. So we are going to utilize the money left by him and the pension in paying the house installments. So is there anyway that i can show that she is financially dependent on me?

Please let me know.

Regards,
Deepak Jagga


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## opindersinghbuttar (Sep 25, 2013)

hey Lovetosmack, thanks for your post here, I saw"dependent mother" at the bottom of you post. Did you actually include your mother in your EOI?? 
if Yes, what documents did you produce as evidence to prove her dependency on you?
I have a similar case, I am a Mechanical and Marine Engineer and my wife is applying under the university Lecturer category for 190 sponsorship from NSW.
We want to include my mother who is dependent on me in our application. I think including her in the application is the best solution than getting tourist visas for every now and then but at the same time I am worried that the CO might not look at our file favourably as Australian Govt. has pulled back the non contributory parent visa.

Any advise is highly valued.

Thanks again


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## lovetosmack (Apr 22, 2013)

djagga said:


> Hi,
> 
> I need help. My case is a bit tricky. Here's the condition:
> 
> ...


Deepak

As per the DIBP website, the mandatory conditions that are to be met to prove dependency are:



> Your other relatives will be considered dependent if all of the following apply:
> they do not have a spouse or de facto partner
> they usually live with you
> they are wholly or substantially reliant on your financial support for their basic living needs (food, shelter and clothing)
> ...


* With whom was your mother living prior to the 3 months ?
* Why was she away from you during this time ?
* How many children does your mother have ? What do they do ?
* How much money in INR does your mother receive under pension ?
* Who is living in your own house now ?

What visa are you applying under ? 189 or 190 ? What is your job code?
You cannot jeopardize your situation waiting for 9 months to lodge your visa. Your job code might be removed. DIBP might change rules that won't be any good for you after 9 months?


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## lovetosmack (Apr 22, 2013)

opindersinghbuttar said:


> hey Lovetosmack, thanks for your post here, I saw"dependent mother" at the bottom of you post. Did you actually include your mother in your EOI??
> if Yes, what documents did you produce as evidence to prove her dependency on you?
> I have a similar case, I am a Mechanical and Marine Engineer and my wife is applying under the university Lecturer category for 190 sponsorship from NSW.
> We want to include my mother who is dependent on me in our application. I think including her in the application is the best solution than getting tourist visas for every now and then but at the same time I am worried that the CO might not look at our file favourably as Australian Govt. has pulled back the non contributory parent visa.
> ...


Please answer the following questions to understand your situation better & suggest accordingly:
* Is your mother divorced or widowed?
* Does she have any kind of income ? How much ?
* Does she work? Was she working before ?
* Where does she live?
* Do you have any siblings? How many ? What are they doing currently ?
* How old is she ?


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## djagga (May 22, 2014)

Hi lovetosmack,

Here are the responses:

* With whom was your mother living prior to the 3 months ? - With my father
* Why was she away from you during this time ? - She was living with my father. Now my father has passed away.
* How many children does your mother have ? What do they do ? - Me, My brother working in USA and my sister working in Pune
* How much money in INR does your mother receive under pension ? - Around 28K INR
* Who is living in your own house now ? - The house is going to be constructed. Now we both are living in a rented accomodation.

What visa are you applying under ? 189 or 190 ? - 189 What is your job code? -261313.

I am really confused as i think the chances of my mother getting the PR look slim.

Can you please help me out.

Regards,
Deepak Jagga


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## lovetosmack (Apr 22, 2013)

djagga said:


> Hi lovetosmack,
> 
> Here are the responses:
> 
> ...


Whatever said and done I guess the chances are slim like you said. This is just my opinion. The reasons I see are:
- Your mother is getting a handsome (considered by DIBP) pension by which she can take care of herself.
- She has two other (elder than you) children who can share the responsibility equally well.
- 3 months is very short time to argue about dependency.

I'll just ask few more questions to make sure but again I guess the chances are very less.
* Are you the youngest ? How old are your siblings ? Is your brother or sister married ?
* Why can't your sister take care of your mother ? Is it because she is married ?
* How old is your mother ?
* Does she have any serious medical conditions ?


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## opindersinghbuttar (Sep 25, 2013)

lovetosmack said:


> Please answer the following questions to understand your situation better & suggest accordingly:
> * Is your mother divorced or widowed?
> * Does she have any kind of income ? How much ?
> * Does she work? Was she working before ?
> ...


answers to the questions:

* she is widowed, and 60 years old
* she has an approx. Rs 12K pension from my father
* she does not work and has never worked
* she lives with me since 2006 and the house is in my name
* I have one sister, she is 22 and currently pursuing M.tech


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## lovetosmack (Apr 22, 2013)

opindersinghbuttar said:


> answers to the questions:
> 
> * she is widowed, and 60 years old
> * she has an approx. Rs 12K pension from my father
> ...


* When did your father pass away ?
* Is the house you live in own or rented ? In whose name is it in ?
Your situation looks favorable for your mother's dependency. But the pension might be a bit of a problem.

@_shel: Would the DIBP question who will take care of his sister if his mother moves along with him ?


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## opindersinghbuttar (Sep 25, 2013)

lovetosmack said:


> * When did your father pass away ?
> * Is the house you live in own or rented ? In whose name is it in ?
> Your situation looks favorable for your mother's dependency. But the pension might be a bit of a problem.
> 
> @_shel: Would the DIBP question who will take care of his sister if his mother moves along with him ?


*my father passed away in Oct.2006
*the house is owned and in my name
* yea even I am worried that the pension might cause some problem, but it isn't enough to survive if I sell the house later on(just saying), she cant rent a house and run all her expenses with that money.


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## _shel (Mar 2, 2014)

Her pension is enough to live on given she does not pay rent so she cant be your dependent. It is assumed you wouldnt sell the home your mother lives in and make her homeless 

She is also responsible for your sister who while still studying is classed as her dependent.


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## opindersinghbuttar (Sep 25, 2013)

_shel said:


> Her pension is enough to live on given she does not pay rent so she cant be your dependent. It is assumed you wouldnt sell the home your mother lives in and make her homeless
> 
> She is also responsible for your sister who while still studying is classed as her dependent.


lol yea but I would have to sell the house at some stage to help my settlement in Australia, so better take her along rather than making her homeless hhehe

and for my sister, if I decide to include my mom in my application, I would plan for her to get a student visa and move to Australia before my application reaches the Visa stage.. how does that sound 

Its getting tricky by the moment, dunno what to do


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## _shel (Mar 2, 2014)

Deliberately making your mum homeless wont get her a visa, it will be seen to be contrived which will leave her without a visa and a home. 

She simply is not your dependent because she has income and a home. 

It doesn't matter where your sister is she is still the dependent of your mother, which makes it pretty difficult for your mother to be your dependent.


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## opindersinghbuttar (Sep 25, 2013)

_shel said:


> Deliberately making your mum homeless wont get her a visa, it will be seen to be contrived which will leave her without a visa and a home.
> 
> She simply is not your dependent because she has income and a home.
> 
> It doesn't matter where your sister is she is still the dependent of your mother, which makes it pretty difficult for your mother to be your dependent.


obviously I am not going to leave her homeless or leave her behind for that matter, its just I am trying to find a way to save a big bucks which I know I will have to pay later on.
I think I need legal advise.

Thanks you help is highly appreciated.


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## rojerron (Feb 20, 2013)

Hi, 
Could someone help me with my case. My brother is a PR holder n he is living in regional area (maryborough,vic). I have been living with him for the last 6 months. Is it possible for me to apply for a dependent visa. what all things i should be worrying if i could apply. please help.thanks.


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## djagga (May 22, 2014)

Are you the youngest ? How old are your siblings ? Is your brother or sister married ? - youngest is my sister...my elder brother is married.
* Why can't your sister take care of your mother ? Is it because she is married ? - my sister is not married but she'll sometime be. in that case she will not be able to provide full support.
* How old is your mother ? 53
* Does she have any serious medical conditions ? - No


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## _shel (Mar 2, 2014)

rojerron said:


> Hi,
> Could someone help me with my case. My brother is a PR holder n he is living in regional area (maryborough,vic). I have been living with him for the last 6 months. Is it possible for me to apply for a dependent visa. what all things i should be worrying if i could apply. please help.thanks.


 The only way your brother can help you migrate is by sponsoring you for a skilled visa 489.


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## _shel (Mar 2, 2014)

djagga said:


> Are you the youngest ? How old are your siblings ? Is your brother or sister married ? - youngest is my sister...my elder brother is married.
> * Why can't your sister take care of your mother ? Is it because she is married ? - my sister is not married but she'll sometime be. in that case she will not be able to provide full support.
> * How old is your mother ? 53
> * Does she have any serious medical conditions ? - No


 The fact your sister may be married in the future isnt taken into account by DIBP. Nor is the idea that your mum couldnt live with her if she was. The circumstances now are what matters.


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## ehsanonline (Jul 3, 2014)

Hi there , i have almost the same case with my application. i want to add my father in my 489 visa application. 

i am married and father of 1.5yrs old daughter. Is it possible to add my father in this visa application. my mother died 5 yrs ago and i am the only son. Rest i have 03 sis and all are married (01 lives in South Aus, 01 in UAE and 01 in my home country but very far from our city). 

I am telecom Engineer with 07 years of experience. 

My father is almost 65yrs old. He is currently doing business but due to the death of my mother, he is socially & emotionally dependent on me. To some extend he is financially dependent as well but i wont be able to justify that much. 

Kindly help me how i can add him in this visa application and what kind of documents do i need to prepare for him.


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## _shel (Mar 2, 2014)

If your father is working he is not your dependent.


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## ehsanonline (Jul 3, 2014)

_shel said:


> If your father is working he is not your dependent.


Thanks for the prompt reply. But if i leave the country without him he wont be able to survive or to do anything. He is doing a small business but i contribute towards the money matters. Is there anyway i can make some documents etc to include him :S
Pls help


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## _shel (Mar 2, 2014)

NOBODY here will advise you how to commit visa fraud.


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## ehsanonline (Jul 3, 2014)

_shel said:


> NOBODY here will advise you how to commit visa fraud.


No no , i am not asking for any kinda fraud etc. i just asked for some advice / help regarding this matter.


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## _shel (Mar 2, 2014)

ehsanonline said:


> No no , i am not asking for any kinda fraud etc. i just asked for some advice / help regarding this matter.


 And as you have told us your father runs a business there is no advice we can give you. 

It is irrelevant he does not make a lot of money, that is no different from millions of other people. He works therefore is not your dependent under Australian Migration Law.


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## tshanmuganathan (Sep 8, 2012)

Hi Shel,

As an expert, I need your advise :

(1) I m the primary applicant and I am currently processing 190 skilled visa
(2) I have also added my wife and my daughter in my visa application as secondary applicants.

Once visa is granted, Is it compulsory that we all 3 of us need to travel together to activate our visa ?

I am planning to land there first and get a job and then bring my family, however I will ensure that first entry date criteria is met.

Please let me know if I can do this. It would be great if you can point me to the immigration link where this info is posted.

Thank you very much.

Regards,
Shan.


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## _shel (Mar 2, 2014)

You dont need to travel together unless you are given a condition that specifies that on your grant letter. You do need to all visit before the date given or your visa is cancelled but can travel separately.


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## ehsanonline (Jul 3, 2014)

_shel said:


> And as you have told us your father runs a business there is no advice we can give you.
> 
> It is irrelevant he does not make a lot of money, that is no different from millions of other people. He works therefore is not your dependent under Australian Migration Law.


Thanks for the reply. Is there any other fast track to invite my father there ? PS: i will be getting 489 Provisional Skilled Visa. 

One more thing i forgot to mention, i have been assisting him actively with his business. U can say i am working as partner with him in that revenue stream. In that case can i show if i leave the country he wont be able to do it as alone ??


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## tshanmuganathan (Sep 8, 2012)

Thanks a lot Shel  





_shel said:


> You dont need to travel together unless you are given a condition that specifies that on your grant letter. You do need to all visit before the date given or your visa is cancelled but can travel separately.


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## lovetosmack (Apr 22, 2013)

_shel: any idea how to move a parent from non migrating to migrating status in application? User ashish1137 seems to have done it by mistake. Also how does he get to pay the fees??


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## lovetosmack (Apr 22, 2013)

ehsanonline said:


> Thanks for the reply. Is there any other fast track to invite my father there ? PS: i will be getting 489 Provisional Skilled Visa.
> 
> One more thing i forgot to mention, i have been assisting him actively with his business. U can say i am working as partner with him in that revenue stream. In that case can i show if i leave the country he wont be able to do it as alone ??


No. You can't. They don't grant visas just because someone can't make money without you. 

You can try the parents contributory visa which is around 40k aud


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## sk2014 (Apr 7, 2014)

ehsanonline said:


> Thanks for the reply. Is there any other fast track to invite my father there ? PS: i will be getting 489 Provisional Skilled Visa.
> 
> One more thing i forgot to mention, i have been assisting him actively with his business. U can say i am working as partner with him in that revenue stream. In that case can i show if i leave the country he wont be able to do it as alone ??


I think you should talk to a MARA agent.


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## _shel (Mar 2, 2014)

lovetosmack said:


> _shel: any idea how to move a parent from non migrating to migrating status in application? User ashish1137 seems to have done it by mistake. Also how does he get to pay the fees??


 How did he manage that! 

He will need to contact the case officer but also should upload the notification of incorrect answers form and form 47A for each person. His case officer will send him a link to make payment.


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## lovetosmack (Apr 22, 2013)

_shel said:


> How did he manage that!
> 
> He will need to contact the case officer but also should upload the notification of incorrect answers form and form 47A for each person. His case officer will send him a link to make payment.


While filling his 189 visa application, he put his mother as non-migrating dependent ignorant of the fact that he could include her at this very stage. He thought he MUST go via the Contributory Parent Visa & stated her as Non-Migrating dependent. Can you re-confirm that he can upload 1022 & that the parent will be moved from non-migrating to migrating if he/she satisfies all the conditions ?

I ask because in this page under Visa Applicants --> Including Family in application , it is mentioned as -


> You can add your partner and dependent children to your application at any time until your visa is decided.


There is no mention of _dependent relatives_ (or Parents). :wacko:


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## lovetosmack (Apr 22, 2013)

Also, a previous excerpt of the relevant post. http://www.expatforum.com/expats/au...er-non-migrating-dependent-3.html#post1772505 

Now its changed on the website itself. Also, in the same page, while defining a Dependent Relative, they have included the list containing brother, sister, grandparent, grandchild, aunt, uncle, niece, nephew or step equivalent. But no where do they mention about widowed or dependent parents. Is this because they are moving away from granting visas to parents ? Will it have any impact on current applications ?


> A dependent relative must be your brother, sister, grandparent, grandchild, aunt, uncle, niece, nephew or step equivalent.


Including Family Members in Your Application


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## _shel (Mar 2, 2014)

You cant add them but as he has already put them in non migrating it may be possible to move them across to migrating if he says he entered them in the wrong section by accident? 

It doesn't say parent on that page BUT nor does it say you specifically can not add parents! It would require a change in the law to bring that in.


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## skksundar (Apr 29, 2014)

lovetosmack said:


> Also, a previous excerpt of the relevant post. http://www.expatforum.com/expats/au...er-non-migrating-dependent-3.html#post1772505
> 
> Now its changed on the website itself. Also, in the same page, while defining a Dependent Relative, they have included the list containing brother, sister, grandparent, grandchild, aunt, uncle, niece, nephew or step equivalent. But no where do they mention about widowed or dependent parents. Is this because they are moving away from granting visas to parents ? Will it have any impact on current applications ?
> 
> ...


Lovetosmack,

I suppose Parents can be considered under Other dependent relatives category




> Your other relatives will be considered dependent if all of the following apply:
> 
> *they do not have a spouse or de facto partner
> they usually live with you
> ...


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## ashish1137 (Aug 4, 2013)

*Changing not migrating to migrating*



_shel said:


> You cant add them but as he has already put them in non migrating it may be possible to move them across to migrating if he says he entered them in the wrong section by accident?
> 
> It doesn't say parent on that page BUT nor does it say you specifically can not add parents! It would require a change in the law to bring that in.


Hi Shel and lovetosmack,

Thank you yet again for the help and support.

Q-1. Someone suggested to fill for 1436, which I read and does not seems apt to me as it only lists option to add child or spouse/ partner.
Q-2. In all the forms where I had to mention about my mother, I mentioned non-migrating dependent. I thooght non migrating means not now but at a later stage and was not aware about the fees factor as well.  I do not think that can be rectified
Q-3. Now what forms should I fill: Form 1022 and ?? Can you help here?
Q-4. Sorry to ask but I hope you are speaking with experience. Did you come across such a situation before?

Desperately waiting for your replies
Thanks in advance


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## lovetosmack (Apr 22, 2013)

skksundar said:


> Lovetosmack,
> 
> I suppose Parents can be considered under Other dependent relatives category


Yes. They "can" be. But if you know, previously the word 'parent' was explicitly mentioned in the same page. They have consciously removed it. I am just starting to think of it from an immigration point of view, now that they have already removed a lot of parent-related visas.

What does it mean that they have now removed the words 'parent' now?


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## shehpar (Apr 21, 2013)

Hi Guys,

Can I add my mother as Immigrant application while my application is "In process"? What would be the impact


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## lovetosmack (Apr 22, 2013)

shehpar said:


> Hi Guys,
> 
> Can I add my mother as Immigrant application while my application is "In process"? What would be the impact


Case recap:
-- Added mother as dependent
-- CO suggested to remove as the applicant has another brother residing in the same place to take care of his mother
-- Now brother is moving out of country

Can you let me know what exactly did the CO say when he was not convinced that she is dependent on you?
What documents did you submit to claim her dependency ?
Also, are you sure that the CO asked you to remove solely because you have a brother in the same city?
Is your brother elder or younger to you ?


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## nitinmoudgil (May 21, 2014)

lovetosmack said:


> Money is not the only criteria. Let's not disturb this thread.  Can you post your queries and situation in this thread here ? http://www.expatforum.com/expats/au...se-kids-including-applicants-please-join.html


Actually my query relates to location.... i am in dubai.. she is in india.. is that a concern ?


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## shehpar (Apr 21, 2013)

lovetosmack said:


> Case recap:
> -- Added mother as dependent
> -- CO suggested to remove as the applicant has another brother residing in the same place to take care of his mother
> -- Now brother is moving out of country
> ...


Can you let me know what exactly did the CO say when he was not convinced that she is dependent on you?
*I added as non-immigrant applicant, I asked regarding her medicals / pcc so she siad since she is not migrating so no need. i ask her that i have added her by keeping in mind that she will get visa but travel later. so she said, she cant be added as immigrant applicant and by keeping her as non-immigrant will make comlpications with inquiries.*
What documents did you submit to claim her dependency ?
*Nothing, just added as non-immigrant applicant.*
Also, are you sure that the CO asked you to remove solely because you have a brother in the same city?
*explained above*
Is your brother elder or younger to you 
*No. I am the elder one.*


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## _shel (Mar 2, 2014)

nitinmoudgil said:


> Actually my query relates to location.... i am in dubai.. she is in india.. is that a concern ?


 Yes it is. Dependent relatives must live in your home and have done fir 12 months prior to applying. She is not your dependent.


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## _shel (Mar 2, 2014)

shehpar said:


> Can you let me know what exactly did the CO say when he was not convinced that she is dependent on you?
> *I added as non-immigrant applicant, I asked regarding her medicals / pcc so she siad since she is not migrating so no need. i ask her that i have added her by keeping in mind that she will get visa but travel later. so she said, she cant be added as immigrant applicant and by keeping her as non-immigrant will make comlpications with inquiries.*
> What documents did you submit to claim her dependency ?
> *Nothing, just added as non-immigrant applicant.*
> ...


 Remove her. She can not be moved to migrating but you will still need medicals and PCC for her.


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## lovetosmack (Apr 22, 2013)

shehpar said:


> Can you let me know what exactly did the CO say when he was not convinced that she is dependent on you?
> *I added as non-immigrant applicant, I asked regarding her medicals / pcc so she siad since she is not migrating so no need. i ask her that i have added her by keeping in mind that she will get visa but travel later. so she said, she cant be added as immigrant applicant and by keeping her as non-immigrant will make comlpications with inquiries.*
> What documents did you submit to claim her dependency ?
> *Nothing, just added as non-immigrant applicant.*
> ...


From what you wrote, I understand that the CO is clearly suggesting you to remove your mother from your existing application irrespective of migrating or non-migrating. I don't see the CO mentioning anything about your brother.

The first question is - How did you think that they will grant visa if you didn't pay the visa fees for your mother (since you put her as non-migrating)? 

Please answer these questions for more understanding of your situation.
* Is your mother divorced or widowed?
* Does she have any kind of income ? How much ?
* Does she work? Was she working before ?
* Where does she live?
* Do you have any siblings? How many ? What are they doing currently ? [apart from your brother]
* How old is she ?


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## lovetosmack (Apr 22, 2013)

_shel said:


> Remove her. She can not be moved to migrating but you will still need medicals and PCC for her.


_shel.. If you remove her off the application, then it means that we admit that she isn't a dependent. Right? Why Meds/PCC then ?


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## nitinmoudgil (May 21, 2014)

_shel said:


> Yes it is. Dependent relatives must live in your home and have done fir 12 months prior to applying. She is not your dependent.


but how should i cope with this situation ?? i cnt leave job here.. plus i cnt call her here because of expense index...
As a part of more info... my mother is widow.. and i submit money in her account each month


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## lovetosmack (Apr 22, 2013)

nitinmoudgil said:


> but how should i cope with this situation ?? i cnt leave job here.. plus i cnt call her here because of expense index...
> As a part of more info... my mother is widow.. and i submit money in her account each month


That's understood from an emotional point of view but immigration goes by rules. Since when are you away from her? Who's taking care of her at home now? How many siblings do you have?


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## tipzstamatic (Aug 13, 2013)

nitinmoudgil said:


> but how should i cope with this situation ?? i cnt leave job here.. plus i cnt call her here because of expense index...
> As a part of more info... my mother is widow.. and i submit money in her account each month


maybe accept that in immigration sense, your mother is not dependent on you. in the financial capacity maybe, but if you are able to remit from where you are, then surely you can do the same when you're in australia.


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## nitinmoudgil (May 21, 2014)

lovetosmack said:


> That's understood from an emotional point of view but immigration goes by rules. Since when are you away from her? Who's taking care of her at home now? How many siblings do you have?


Like i stated already... i moved here in March 2014... and i have one elder sister.. married in Australia... father died.. so no other person to look after her.. back in india


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## nitinmoudgil (May 21, 2014)

tipzstamatic said:


> maybe accept that in immigration sense, your mother is not dependent on you. in the financial capacity maybe, but if you are able to remit from where you are, then surely you can do the same when you're in australia.


that makes sense... but.. what can be the wayout of this ?? Should i mention that i was in dubai for shorter period ?? but then employment thing will get problem


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## _shel (Mar 2, 2014)

lovetosmack said:


> _shel.. If you remove her off the application, then it means that we admit that she isn't a dependent. Right? Why Meds/PCC then ?


 I thought he had her down as non migrating dependent? If so yes they are still needed. If not my error! 



nitinmoudgil said:


> that makes sense... but.. what can be the wayout of this ?? Should i mention that i was in dubai for shorter period ?? but then employment thing will get problem


 There is no way round it. Your passpo, gisas and Australias security checks will tell them where you have been and how long for. If you lie then those security and employment checks reveal your lie you wont have a visa and will in fact get a ban from the country. 

If your mother was truly your dependent and in need of your care and attention you would have taken her to Dubai. You did not and she has been coping just fine without you. She is simply not your dependent. If you are genuinely worried you should shelve your migration plans and go home to care for her.


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## lovetosmack (Apr 22, 2013)

_shel said:


> I thought he had her down as non migrating dependent? If so yes they are still needed.


Yes, he had her as non-migrating dependent in his application so far. But the CO is asking him to remove her off the application as she isn't buying the dependency claim. So, if he goes ahead and removes, then, he doesn't have to get her medicals. Right ?


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## nitinmoudgil (May 21, 2014)

_shel said:


> I thought he had her down as non migrating dependent? If so yes they are still needed. If not my error!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


What if i make her visit dubai for couple of month on tourist visa.. and then show in papers.. that i we are living together..


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## _shel (Mar 2, 2014)

nitinmoudgil said:


> What if i make her visit dubai for couple of month on tourist visa.. and then show in papers.. that i we are living together..


 She would need a residence visa for daubi and she would need to live there with you for 12 months before you could make your application.


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## rockyrambo (Apr 22, 2013)

_shel said:


> She would need a residence visa for daubi and she would need to live there with you for 12 months before you could make your application.


Ok! so here's what I am doing.

I came to work in Singapore on Jan 2014 and have been here for the past six months. 
Before Jan 2014, my mom and I have been living in the same house since 1990. 
My father passed away in 1999. My mom hasn't been working /earning any income for the past 12-15 years. 
I have been supporting her financially for the past 8-9 years and living with her in the same house for the past 24 years (since when I was a toddler!). 
Given, this history of 'dependency' I feel six months shouldn't be an issue and hence I have taken the chance of applying with her with all the evidences to corroborate these facts. 

I have called her to Singapore on a tourist visa and have made her stay with me for some time, opened her Singapore bank account (joint a/c with me) with my address.
The way I am interpreting DIAC's rules on dependency (I have written on them elaborately in the first page of the thread) are:

1) Dependent must usually reside in the applicant's household - Of course it should imply the more the dependent stays in the same house, the better , however, they don't put any time limit here that the dependent has lived with the applicant in the same household for the past 12/24/36 months, etc.

2) Dependency for the past 12 months from the time of application - This entails financial and other conditions of dependency to be proved for the past 12 months from the time of application. For example, if the dependent's spouse has passed away 8 months before the application then this condition would fail. However, it is not necessary for that the applicant must have stayed in the same house for whole 12 months. I mean to say, it has not been explicitly mentioned anywhere. In form 47a as well, they don't ask explicitly whether the dependent has stayed with the primary applicant for the past 12 months from the date of application.

IMHO, the lesser the gap of separation, the better it is, however, it depends on the CO how to look at each case. Hence, keeping my fingers crossed on this !!


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## _shel (Mar 2, 2014)

Well good luck but of course they specify a time. They say they must be dependent on you for 12 months prior to you applying *and* that dependency means the person lives with you. ie they need to be living with you for 12 months prior to applying. You need to read comlaw and not just the tiny amount of _guidance_ given on the immi website. Migration Act 1958

It does depend on how the CO looks at it but I think your problem will be your mum is on a tourist visa not a residence visa so is not 'living' with you but visiting.


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## rockyrambo (Apr 22, 2013)

_shel said:


> Well good luck but of course they specify a time. They say they must be dependent on you for 12 months prior to you applying *and* that dependency means the person lives with you. ie they need to be living with you for 12 months prior to applying. You need to read comlaw and not just the tiny amount of _guidance_ given on the immi website. Migration Act 1958
> 
> It does depend on how the CO looks at it but I think your problem will be your mum is on a tourist visa not a residence visa so is not 'living' with you but visiting.


Yep, that I understand. I have just taken a chance with it. However, I just did a ctrl F for 'dependent' but didn't find anything related to proving a person as your dependent in your application. I downloaded 3 comlaws from the website (the first link in the table). 

The guidance mentioned on the website says 'usually resides in the applicant's household' as one condition of dependency. The statement where it says ' prove dependency for the past 12 months (at least) from the date of applying' would mean that the dependent must have usually resided in the applicant's household for the past 12 months, at least. I am just playing my cards on 'usually' !!


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## _shel (Mar 2, 2014)

Yes usually applies to situations such as 20 year old child who is at university on campus away from home. Still 100% dependent but not living at home full time. 

Or father works offshore, at sea, airline etc, 2 weeks on 2 weeks off for example so usually in the same home but not always but his home still remains with his family. His dependants remain in the family home when he is not. 

It does not refer to people working on visas in other countries usually because you would generally take your dependants with you just as you want to take them to Australia.


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## ashish1137 (Aug 4, 2013)

_shel said:


> Yes usually applies to situations such as 20 year old child who is at university on campus away from home. Still 100% dependent but not living at home full time.
> 
> Or father works offshore, at sea, airline etc, 2 weeks on 2 weeks off for example so usually in the same home but not always but his home still remains with his family. His dependants remain in the family home when he is not.
> 
> It does not refer to people working on visas in other countries usually because you would generally take your dependants with you just as you want to take them to Australia.


Hi Shel,

I beg to differ on few points that you have stated here.

1. when we go to work in different countries, it is best to take then on tourist visa, especiallly whwn our tenure is short say 7 - 11 months.
2. Currently I am working in Pune on a 3 - 6 months transfer while rest of my family is i Chandigarh. So even though I am away. My wife is there to take care of my mother.
3. Apart from the topic above, in my case my mother meets all criteria stated except the financially dependent clause as she has a penaion coming after she is retired from a govt. job. So we are supporting her partly.

:-(

Even I missed to add my mom as nigrating and somehow ended up selecting non migrating option. but i have given all proofs like
1. Delaration.
2. her medical inaurance that I am taking for past 4 years.
3. My Dad's death certificate.
4. medicals
5. pcc
6. 47a
7. 1221
8. 1023 (asking to add her as migrating)

I hope they consider the last minute request. :-(


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## _shel (Mar 2, 2014)

You can disagree all you like, thats not how Australian migration policy sees it. 

A person on a tourist visa is not 'living' country they are visiting. So are not 'resident in your household'. You obtain your dependents residence visas to go with you or stay with them if that can not be done so you can care for them. 

My examples above include people like you though. You are working away temporarily and not on a residence/work visa in another country. Your home/household is where your wife is, where you will return as soon as your project is done and maybe even for weekends in between. Your wife is always your dependent wherever she is and as she is providing care for your mum in your household that makes her, along with your wife your dependents assuming your mums pension is low enough.


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## nitinmoudgil (May 21, 2014)

i have one year contract with the company.. legal one... can i show that and say its a small venture for me to work with the company... and i am complying with the terms since march...


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## _shel (Mar 2, 2014)

nitinmoudgil said:


> i have one year contract with the company.. legal one... can i show that and say its a small venture for me to work with the company... and i am complying with the terms since march...


 But the way DIBP see it is you moved out of the country and left her behind so you could not have been concerned for her welfare and she not been your dependent for at least 4 months.


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## nitinmoudgil (May 21, 2014)

_shel said:


> But the way DIBP see it is you moved out of the country and left her behind so you could not have been concerned for her welfare and she not been your dependent for at least 4 months.


But bond will clearly state thaT, it is non renewal... and i think that will take my case similar to the person deputed in other state in india itself...


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## lovetosmack (Apr 22, 2013)

nitinmoudgil said:


> But bond will clearly state thaT, it is non renewal... and i think that will take my case similar to the person deputed in other state in india itself...


Same thing Nithin either ways. Once you leave the dependent and move even to a residence one block away it is not considered living with you. There was this user maddy.shenoy whose mother was living in the same house. But he mentioned different door numbers (37 for him & 37/3 for his mother) out of ignorance in form 47a & he had to remove his mother off the application. I understand you are just trying to bring ideas to argue your dependency, but understand that CO's will give you a chance to explain & if they don't buy the claim don't push it. Else they can and are capable to reject the entire application without thinking twice.

Claiming Dependency means that you are stating that the dependent cannot live even a day (yes I exaggerated) without your support, be it financial, emotional, etc.


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## _shel (Mar 2, 2014)

nitinmoudgil said:


> But bond will clearly state thaT, it is non renewal... and i think that will take my case similar to the person deputed in other state in india itself...


 No it is not the same. Have you left your wife with your parent to care for them? Can you visit weekends to support her yourself. They are the things which make the other situation not like yours.


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## ashish1137 (Aug 4, 2013)

_shel said:


> No it is not the same. Have you left your wife with your parent to care for them? Can you visit weekends to support her yourself. They are the things which make the other situation not like yours.


Hi Shel,

Lookin at your points I somewhat agree. I guess I am looking from only my emotional point of view. I am in different state as off now but my wife, mom and son are all living under same roof back at my native place.

So I suppose at least I get out of this issue of living at different place (even though this is a 3-6 months deputation). The sole reason why I took this opportunity was because I will move to sydney after this tensure i different city. Still the only problem I see is her pension which is about 20k INR per month. That is actually considered as a good amount here in India for a person to survive. Bu I have asked proofs fron my office medicare stating that I am buying her health insurance for past 4 year. Apart from that I have also mentioned that i and my wife are responsible for household issues/ chores and provide cash support to my mom eanging from 5-10k per month on need basis.
On similar lines, she has also dexlared that she alone will not be abke to manage her medical care and transportation requirements.

Lets see what happens. Thank you for your sugggestiins and guidance.


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## ehsanonline (Jul 3, 2014)

Just wanted to confirm if i launch the application for Visa with my father as dependent relative and if something goes wrong eg case officer rejects or doesnt agree with my point of view then what will be the outcome of my case. will they refuse my application as whole or will they approve my case excluding my father ??


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## _shel (Mar 2, 2014)

ehsanonline said:


> Just wanted to confirm if i launch the application for Visa with my father as dependent relative and if something goes wrong eg case officer rejects or doesnt agree with my point of view then what will be the outcome of my case. will they refuse my application as whole or will they approve my case excluding my father ??


 I have only ever seen visas granted all together or the CO suggesting the parent is removed as they do not believe they are dependent. 

It is suggested by the CO in their email to the applicant that if the parent is not removed the visa will be decided with them on and then all may be refused. 

Not to say it has not happened where the CO doesn't ask that because not every applicant uses this forum but it is probably within their policy to do so.


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## ehsanonline (Jul 3, 2014)

_shel said:


> I have only ever seen visas granted all together or the CO suggesting the parent is removed as they do not believe they are dependent.
> 
> It is suggested by the CO in their email to the applicant that if the parent is not removed the visa will be decided with them on and then all may be refused.
> 
> Not to say it has not happened where the CO doesn't ask that because not every applicant uses this forum but it is probably within their policy to do so.


Thanks for the prompt reply


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## nitinmoudgil (May 21, 2014)

Hi Seniors

I have query... Actually i am living in dubai n mother in India...
I consulted with my consultant that this different places can create a lot of problem.
But she is debating that thr is no such problem.. And we will not face any problem on this point.
Now she want me to share a link stating all these requirement..
If any1 can give me a link to such conditions like same house etc..
that will be very much beneficial.


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## tipzstamatic (Aug 13, 2013)

nitinmoudgil said:


> Hi Seniors
> 
> I have query... Actually i am living in dubai n mother in India...
> I consulted with my consultant that this different places can create a lot of problem.
> ...


why dont you save yourself the trouble and worry and just include your mother who is in india as your dependent. if your CO asks you to remove then remove, if she/he doesnt, then you'd realize that all these were just unnecessary concerns. if you can't trust your agent/consultant to do their job you're paying them for, then your money will just be going to waste paying them to worry and handle all your worries for you


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## _shel (Mar 2, 2014)

Including Family Members in Your Application
Other dependent relative
A dependent relative must be your brother, sister, grandparent, grandchild, aunt, uncle, niece, nephew or step equivalent.

For any dependent relative that you include in your visa application, you must provide evidence of their:

relationship to you
dependency on you
relationship status (whether they are married, in a de facto relationship, divorced or separated).
This evidence includes:

a certified copy of their birth certificate and proof of their relationship to you
documents showing that the relative lives in your household
documents showing that your relative has been dependent on you for at least the 12 months immediately before you lodge your application.

Your other relatives will be considered dependent *if all of the following apply:*

they do not have a spouse or de facto partner
*they usually live with you*
*they are wholly or substantially reliant on your financial support for their basic living needs (food, shelter and clothing)
they are more reliant on you for support than on any other person or source*
*they have relied on you for at least the 12 months immediately before you lodge your application.*
If your relative is divorced, legally separated or widowed, you must provide certified copies of supporting evidence, such as:

the document of legal divorce
the document of legal separation
the death certificate of the deceased partner


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## nitinmoudgil (May 21, 2014)

tipzstamatic said:


> why dont you save yourself the trouble and worry and just include your mother who is in india as your dependent. if your CO asks you to remove then remove, if she/he doesnt, then you'd realize that all these were just unnecessary concerns. if you can't trust your agent/consultant to do their job you're paying them for, then your money will just be going to waste paying them to worry and handle all your worries for you


but bro... these are clear cutt worries i am seeing from here only...
Consultant will nod his head and say in the end "We guaranteed VISA for you, if your mother cant be given we are not concern"

Plus people are facing this issue... i am pushing my lawyer cum consultant to give me a wayout.. that i why i am paying him...


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## ehsanonline (Jul 3, 2014)

nitinmoudgil said:


> Hi Seniors
> 
> I have query... Actually i am living in dubai n mother in India...
> I consulted with my consultant that this different places can create a lot of problem.
> ...


Here you go 


"A dependent relative must be your brother, sister, grandparent, grandchild, aunt, uncle, niece, nephew or step equivalent.

For any dependent relative that you include in your visa application, you must provide evidence of their:

relationship to you
dependency on you
relationship status (whether they are married, in a de facto relationship, divorced or separated).

This evidence includes:

a certified copy of their birth certificate and proof of their relationship to you
documents showing that the relative lives in your household
documents showing that your relative has been dependent on you for at least the 12 months immediately before you lodge your application.

Your other relatives will be considered dependent if all of the following apply:

they do not have a spouse or de facto partner
they usually live with you
they are wholly or substantially reliant on your financial support for their basic living needs (food, shelter and clothing)
they are more reliant on you for support than on any other person or source
they have relied on you for at least the 12 months immediately before you lodge your application.

If your relative is divorced, legally separated or widowed, you must provide certified copies of supporting evidence, such as:

the document of legal divorce
the document of legal separation
the death certificate of the deceased partner."

Copied from link : Including Family Members in Your Application


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## _shel (Mar 2, 2014)

No lawyer/ consultant/ migration agent can guarantee you a visa. Only DIBP can grant your visa. 

It is in fact illegal for a registered migration agent to claim they can gaurantee you a visa. 

If you want to waste your money on lawyers who are obviously not registeted, who are encouraging you to waste $4k on an application which does not fit with migration Law, the only rules that matter and that are used to decide if any applicant qualifies go right ahead and stop repeating the same posts on here. 

Your way out is to either be with your mother for 12 months in India or her in daubi on an appropriate ( ie not tourist) visa then apply for PR. 

Or apply yourself, get PR then apply for a contributory parent visa for your mother after you have lived in Australia for 2 years. 

You need to remember that Australian migration law does not base itself on your feelings, customs or beliefs. 

It is based on fact, Australian customs, beliefs and norms. It is not the norm for an adult who is not your spouse to be dependent on you even a parent in old age. It is not accepted that a child must care for their parent or that a parent should not be able to work and take care of themselves until age 70.


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## tipzstamatic (Aug 13, 2013)

nitinmoudgil said:


> First of all stope being rude... i didnt asked you this question personally.
> And as far as repeating post.... i got your points..
> and my last post was for some link.. which was different than previous post..
> Plus... i will post as much as post for the same query unless and until i get a alternate...
> ...


come on man, the reply wasnt rude at all. don't be onion-skinned.
1. _shel was just being dutiful to remind you and other readers of the forum that no agent can ever GUARANTEE a grant as you have said they told you.

2. there have been clear posts on this thread that will clarify on your insistence to make you mom a dependent. and judging by how you have reacted, you want to insist on what you believe is to be the definition of dependency ... whereby people in this forum such as _shel have told you otherwise.

3. if you dont like getting the answers youre getting, then stop asking. stop grabbing at the slivers of light that somehow someone on this forum will reinforce your hope that you can get a different result from what people have already said is most likely not going to happen. (so yes, _shel was right that it seems you are coming from an emotional standpoint on this insistence of a dependent mother).


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## tipzstamatic (Aug 13, 2013)

nitinmoudgil said:


> "and stop repeating the same posts on here"
> 
> That was rude...


maybe because you have said in more than 1 post that your agent has said this and that to you. and clearly, with the fact that your supposed agent who should be KNOWLEDGEABLE on the matter of immigration is asking you for LINKS is clearly not competent. which is why in my interpretation of it, _shel has asked you to stop posting that your agent has said this and that. because you're not helping yourself or anyone by providing information that supposedly came from an agent which by a quick search online can be found to be untrue.

*rollseyes* <-rude 



> I consulted with my consultant that this different places can create a lot of problem.
> But she is debating that thr is no such problem.. And we will not face any problem on this point.
> Now she want me to share a link stating all these requirement..





> but bro... these are clear cutt worries i am seeing from here only...
> Consultant will nod his head and say in the end "We guaranteed VISA for you, if your mother cant be given we are not concern"
> 
> Plus people are facing this issue... i am pushing my lawyer cum consultant to give me a wayout.. that i why i am paying him...


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## nitinmoudgil (May 21, 2014)

tipzstamatic said:


> maybe because you have said in more than 1 post that your agent has said this and that to you. and clearly, with the fact that your supposed agent who should be KNOWLEDGEABLE on the matter of immigration is asking you for LINKS is clearly not competent. which is why in my interpretation of it, _shel has asked you to stop posting that your agent has said this and that. because you're not helping yourself or anyone by providing information that supposedly came from an agent which by a quick search online can be found to be untrue.
> 
> *rollseyes* <-rude


that is why i ask for the link.. i forwarded the same to agent.. and i was sharing with you people.. that my agent is saying this... it was nt intentional to tell you that agent is fake or incompetent... but to tell other that he/she might have some wayout...


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## _shel (Mar 2, 2014)

nitinmoudgil said:


> First of all stope being rude... i didnt asked you this question personally.
> And as far as repeating post.... i got your points..
> and my last post was for some link.. which was different than previous post..
> Plus... i will post as much as post for the same query unless and until i get a alternate...
> ...


 You need to learn how to be a bit nicer to people who are trying to help you not waste thousands of dollars. If you have the money to spare why be rude and so many questions. Just apply and wait and see.


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## tipzstamatic (Aug 13, 2013)

nitinmoudgil said:


> now u talking to me in my language... you said to me on first place... stop being emotional and stop posting same thing again and again..
> 
> you know thr are thousand of ways to say this ??? saying with some politeness.. if you have heard this word
> 
> ...


:behindsofa:
you're indian, she's english.
she's not being rude, she's being ENGLISH/BRITISH. lol
if that rubs you off the wrong way, then culturally, you might be deterred by the fact that Australians are mostly of british descent so they may come off as brash or rude.

anyway, this is out of thread topic. but come one man, no body is trying to insult you or peel your onion skin.  people may sound sterner than usual to get a point across which by your constant insistence on the topic of your mother being dependent - is I believe, a way to put the conversation to an end and stop you from going in circles...only to eventually quit the discussion because you either hear what you wanted to hear - or declare to be banned (as if anyone would care) and storm off and be all dramatic about it.:wave:


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## The_Boss (Jul 10, 2014)

nitinmoudgil said:


> now u talking to me in my language... you said to me on first place... stop being emotional and stop posting same thing again and again..
> 
> you know thr are thousand of ways to say this ??? saying with some politeness.. if you have heard this word
> 
> ...


Hey Nitin, calm down mate. Probably you got a bit upset/emotional listening to something that you weren't expecting....More so because it's (your dream/desire) a PR and involves your dependent. 

I just read Shel's post and he/she wasn't rude at all, but just trying to give you the right info....

Now that you've put in time and money by hiring a lawyer/agent might as well go ahead with your application and just hope things go your way. If not, then you will have to decide whether you want to migrate leaving your parent behind or chose to stay back in your home country.

Wish you good luck!!!


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## ashish1137 (Aug 4, 2013)

The_Boss said:


> Hey Nitin, calm down mate. Probably you got a bit upset/emotional listening to something that you weren't expecting....More so because it's (your dream/desire) a PR and involves your dependent.
> 
> I just read Shel's post and he/she wasn't rude at all, but just trying to give you the right info....
> 
> ...


Sorry guys,

I am with Nitin here and as per my opinion, shel was a bit rude here even though i respect her intellect.

I know over last few days there has been a lot of debate over this topic but rather than reply like this i think it is better not to reply.

Nitin, calm down man. I know when worried, one would like to hear a word in their favor, but thats not the end if world man. If things dont favor, you can always call her in two years.


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## lovetosmack (Apr 22, 2013)

ashish1137 said:


> Sorry guys,
> 
> I am with Nitin here and as per my opinion, shel was a bit rude here even though i respect her intellect.
> 
> ...


I understand guys. But I'm really curious as to which lines were offensive.


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## _shel (Mar 2, 2014)

lovetosmack said:


> I understand guys. But I'm really curious as to which lines were offensive.


 Me too. I think I can stab a guess at talking about Australian culture, Laws and norms as it does not fit with other countries culture and norms. Though that's not rude, its fact and the country people wish to move to so is something they will become accustomed to when they get there.


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## ashish1137 (Aug 4, 2013)

_shel said:


> Me too. I think I can stab a guess at talking about Australian culture, Laws and norms as it does not fit with other countries culture and norms. Though that's not rude, its fact and the country people wish to move to so is something they will become accustomed to when they get there.


I agree with the facts shel even though i strongly condemned the english beliefs. (no offense) and after staying 7 months in UK. I know the way english or britishers think or I can at least make out from their rules.

But the guy is trying to clear his doubts here. There are two ways of saying No. In IT we are taught the longer way in which you dont say yes but dont say no either. Your reply was blunt which Nitin was not expecting but I totally understand that, you dont want him to have false hopes and being a true guide, you dont like people who give false hopes as well. 

On top of that asking him to stop repeating. Well you might have your own reasons but I would avoid that kind of tone.

I think we anyhow have proceeded with our application (offcourse with your help). Lets just wait and watch what happens. A lot of people are going to learn from our examples.


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## lovetosmack (Apr 22, 2013)




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## nitinmoudgil (May 21, 2014)

lovetosmack said:


>


congrats bhai jaan..... awesome news


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## cancerianlrules (Feb 6, 2014)

lovetosmack said:


>


Hey Smacky!

Many Congratulations on the grant!

You along with some other members have been an asset to this forum!

Keep rocking!


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## ehsanonline (Jul 3, 2014)

lovetosmack said:


>


Did you get the approval with a dependent relative in your visa application ?? 
And btw congrats and we all are happy for ya


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## lovetosmack (Apr 22, 2013)

ehsanonline said:


> Did you get the approval with a dependent relative in your visa application ??
> And btw congrats and we all are happy for ya


Yes. I did.


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## ehsanonline (Jul 3, 2014)

lovetosmack said:


> Yes. I did.


I am also adding my father as dependent in my 489 visa application. How do u foresee for this approval ?
My mother died 05 years ago and since birth i am living with my father. He used to be a teacher but after the death of my mother couldnt continue to work. Currently doing PhD. 

Further can you suggest me the documents that i should attach for a strong case. Your feedback is highly appreciated please.


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## lovetosmack (Apr 22, 2013)

@ehsanonline:

* Do you have any siblings ?
* How old is your father ?
* Do you transfer any money to him regularly ?

You can submit copies of
* medical bills, monthly transfers, house hold expenses like grocery bills, etc
* Wife's Death Certificate
* Any kind of his insurance paid by you
* Family Composition tree

etc etc


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## ehsanonline (Jul 3, 2014)

lovetosmack said:


> @ehsanonline:
> 
> * Do you have any siblings ?
> * How old is your father ?
> ...


** Do you have any siblings ?*
I have 03 elder sisters (all married) and I am youngest & the only son. The eldest most sister is in South Australia (near Adelaide) and they are living in Australia from past 6 years. 
The second eldest sister lives in Pakistan. 
3rd eldest lives in UAE and they are also in the last steps of 189 visa and hoping to get the PR within a month time.

_*
* How old is your father ?*_
DOB: 13th Aug 1949 
Approx: 65years

** Do you transfer any money to him regularly ?*
Nopes. Usually cash


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## Indigirl (Jul 26, 2014)

*Want to add mother on 189 vis*

Hello to All the Senior Members,

I know you get asked this question a lot but then again I think my case is a lil different.

My mother is 70 years old. She has been separated from my father ever since we were kids. She was working but then chose to retire. She now earns a meagre pension of INR 12K (roughly AUD 212) per month. We do not have any own immovable property and continue to live in rental houses (Rental agreements have been in my name alone though)

I have been paying and continue to pay for the rent and the living expenses. I also buy her medical insurance every year and pay for her visits to doctors and getting labs/tests done.

I have a brother who is an Australian citizen. As I've been earning we have never been financially dependent on him. She has visited him once briefly in Australia on a tourist visa.

I work in an IT company and was deputed to the States in mid 2011. My mom joined me there in 2012 on a tourist visa (US does not recognize parents as dependents so only allows tourist visa for a max duration of 6 months). She stayed with me twice for a period of 6 months each (in 2012 and in 2013).

I moved back to India earlier in this year and plan to apply for my 189 visa in Sep.

She does not have any major health issues other than Diabetes and uses hearing aids.

All our addresses have been same (on both our old expired passports as well as our new passports, on all our national identity documents like Aadhar card, Gas Books/chalans, Bank statements from nationalized banks)
e.g. we stayed in a rental house Addressed "ABC" in Delhi, then both our passports carried that address. We later shifted to a different rental house Addressed "XYZ" in Delhi, then both our new passports(as our old one expired) carried the "XYZ" address.

I hold a joint bank account with her where I used to transfer whatever I managed to save in the States. She would use some of the money for her living expense and then save the remaining in a bank fixed deposit in her name (as I was not in the country at that time) and use that interest along with her pension to survive the 6 months she would be in India.

Now that I have hopefully given a detailed version of my case, I need help on:

1. How do I prove that she is financially dependent on me? Please provide the list of Indian documents which are acceptable.
2. How do I prove our relation? I do not have either her or my birth certificate but She is mentioned as my mother in my passport and in all other legal documents where we need to specify parents name.
3. She never filed a case in the family court to get separated/divorced. Is a notarized separation agreement signed by both parents on a stamp paper legal enough?
4. What documents would I need to prove that we have been usually living together? (I can only think of passports (both old and new), Adhar cards, bank statements)
5. I know she will have to clear meds and PCC but not so sure about IELTS. She has functional knowledge in English but is too old to clear an IELTS. She has studied till 10th standard in a convent school of her times and has a certificate issued in local language I guess(need to verify again). The rest of her functional knowledge comes from her work and life experience 
6. Does her age cause any issues?

Any advice is greatly appreciated.

P.S: I'm very well aware that adding dependent parents is difficult but I want to be sure that it really is not feasible before I decide to try the tourist visa/migratory parent route.

Thanks
Indigirl


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## nitinmoudgil (May 21, 2014)

As per my discussion here and knowledge... Please find the following comments below



Indigirl said:


> 1. How do I prove that she is financially dependent on me? Please provide the list of Indian documents which are acceptable. (You have to submit bank statement showing the payments made by you for her, like premium, fooding, sheltee i.e. rent... and all other essential utilities bill like TV, mobile bills payment)
> 2. How do I prove our relation? I do not have either her or my birth certificate but She is mentioned as my mother in my passport and in all other legal documents where we need to specify parents name. (You can give statutory declaration stating that she is your mother and same is easily accpetable by the COs nowadays)
> 3. She never filed a case in the family court to get separated/divorced. Is a notarized separation agreement signed by both parents on a stamp paper legal enough? (That will be a problem, wait for senior to revert on the same, PRoof is mandate)
> 4. What documents would I need to prove that we have been usually living together? (I can only think of passports (both old and new), Adhar cards, bank statements) (Rental agreement, and statutory decalration from both of you.. one from you stating you both were living together... one from her.. stating she is dependent on you.... please if available get ITRs of your mother stating no income)
> ...


Tourist visa is an option... please go thru and wait for some other inputs as well


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## Indigirl (Jul 26, 2014)

Thank you Nitin!


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## _shel (Mar 2, 2014)

nitinmoudgil said:


> As per my discussion here and knowledge... Please find the following comments below
> 
> 
> 
> Tourist visa is an option... please go thru and wait for some other inputs as well


 Tourist visa is not an option. Tourist visas are for tourism not for ng in Australia.

To be granted a longer stay tourist visa you still need ties, such as employment that shows you will return home. 

Adding as dependent is not really an option due to her income.


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## Indigirl (Jul 26, 2014)

_shel said:


> Tourist visa is not an option. Tourist visas are for tourism not for ng in Australia.
> 
> To be granted a longer stay tourist visa you still need ties, such as employment that shows you will return home.
> 
> Adding as dependent is not really an option due to her income.


Thanks Shel. I was worried about her pension initially but AUD 200 is not enough to even pay rent in India forget her living, medical expenses etc. Isn't that an important financial point to be considered by the CO?

Your thoughts?


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## _shel (Mar 2, 2014)

200 is not enough in Australia, but in INR in india its enough. 

That aside I just re read and noticed she is not divorced. An informal separation between themselves is not enough. It needs to be a legally binding divorce to stop visa fraud.


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## Indigirl (Jul 26, 2014)

_shel said:


> 200 is not enough in Australia, but in INR in india its enough.
> 
> That aside I just re read and noticed she is not divorced. An informal separation between themselves is not enough. It needs to be a legally binding divorce to stop visa fraud.


Hi shel,

As per immi gov website, it states the document of legal separation is enough. I forgot to mention that she does have an affadavit which states that they are separated since XX date on a stamp paper which is notarized.

Isn't this considered as the document of legal separation?


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## lovetosmack (Apr 22, 2013)

Indigirl said:


> Hi shel,
> 
> As per immi gov website, it states the document of legal separation is enough. I forgot to mention that she does have an affadavit which states that they are separated since XX data on a stamp paper which is notarized.
> 
> Isn't this considered as the document of legal separation?


Document of legal separation means Divorce. An affidavit doesn't carry any weight as you can write anything you want in it. Think of other ways you can prove how they are separated, why and since when. Use gurdjieff was in a similar situation. PM him to check how he managed. But the pension could prove to be a bit of a problem.


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## _shel (Mar 2, 2014)

Indigirl said:


> Hi shel,
> 
> As per immi gov website, it states the document of legal separation is enough. I forgot to mention that she does have an affadavit which states that they are separated since XX data on a stamp paper which is notarized.
> 
> Isn't this considered as the document of legal separation?


 If it is considered a legal document in india that would stand up to the scrutiny of a Court and fits with India's laws should it be challenged yes. 

If it is personal arrangement that whilst acceptable would not stand up in Court if challanged for example inheritance, child custody etc = no.

Writing something on stamp paper does not always make something legal unless the laws of the country recognise it as such.


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## Indigirl (Jul 26, 2014)

lovetosmack said:


> Document of legal separation means Divorce. An affidavit doesn't carry any weight as you can write anything you want in it. Think of other ways you can prove how they are separated, why and since when. Use gurdjieff was in a similar situation. PM him to check how he managed. But the pension could prove to be a bit of a problem.


Document of legal separation is not the same as the document of divorce (though it could help in getting a divorce) as per the immi gov website as they have mentioned it separately.

I'm not sure how else I can prove they are separated.

I shall try to contact gurdjieff.

I also noticed in your signature that you had added a dependent and were approved. Could you please shed some light on your scenario as it might help me?


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## Indigirl (Jul 26, 2014)

_shel said:


> If it is considered a legal document in india that would stand up to the scrutiny of a Court and fits with India's laws should it be challenged yes.
> 
> If it is personal arrangement that whilst acceptable would not stand up in Court if challanged for example inheritance, child custody etc = no.
> 
> Writing something on stamp paper does not always make something legal unless the laws of the country recognise it as such.


Yes shel. As per the lawyer who drew up the separation agreement, this document is admissible in an Indian Family Court if one of my parents decided to move to court to get divorced.

This document also clearly stated that my mother would get custodial rights and my dad would have visitation rights.

But I think I might be better off if I consult a lawyer to confirm if this document can still be admitted to the court of law.


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## _shel (Mar 2, 2014)

Indigirl said:


> Yes shel. As per the lawyer who drew up the separation agreement, this document is admissible in an Indian Family Court if one of my parents decided to move to court to get divorced.
> 
> This document also clearly stated that my mother would get custodial rights and my dad would have visitation rights.
> 
> But I think I might be better off if I consult a lawyer to confirm if this document can still be admitted to the court of law.


 A personal notorised statement is not a legal separation. You dont need a lawyer you need a registered migration agent who will know if it is acceptable by Australian standards.


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## _shel (Mar 2, 2014)

Divorce/seperation aside, your mother has her own income which means she is not your dependent. No not a huge amount by Australian standards but they look at costs in India not Australia.


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## Indigirl (Jul 26, 2014)

_shel said:


> A personal notorised statement is not a legal separation. You dont need a lawyer you need a registered migration agent who will know if it is acceptable by Australian standards.


Yes. That sounds better. I shall check with one.


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## Indigirl (Jul 26, 2014)

_shel said:


> Divorce/seperation aside, your mother has her own income which means she is not your dependent. No not a huge amount by Australian standards but they look at costs in India not Australia.


India is definitely not cheap by any standard especially if one is living in a metro. How do they decide if X amount of money is sufficient to survive in a particular country?


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## bins2013 (Mar 21, 2014)

Hi,

I need your suggestions on adding my mother as dependent in my 190 visa application. 


My mother is 70 years old. She is healthy
My father passed away 3 years back and she is staying with me. I have douments to prove that like Adhar card, bank acount etc.
The house we stay is in my name.
I have only one sibling, younger sister. She is settled in Norway and she is not working.
My mother is retired from government service and she has a monthly pension of around 25,000 INR.

I have already lodged my visa application adding my mother as non-migrating dependent. At that time, I was under the impression that I can not add her as migrating dependent since she has her own income. 

But when I came across this thread, I feel lit'l hopeful on adding her as migrating dependent. 

I am looking forward to your opinion.


----------



## lovetosmack (Apr 22, 2013)

@bins2013: The pension you mentioned is enough for a decent living in India. They might not look at it favorably though.

Talk to user ashish1137. He is in a similar situation. Added mother as non migrating dependent who has 20000 INR pension and is now waiting for CO to request to move her as migrating dependent. You should probably follow his case closely and update your case based on his feedback.


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## nitinmoudgil (May 21, 2014)

lovetosmack said:


> @bins2013: The pension you mentioned is enough for a decent living in India. They might not look at it favorably though.
> 
> Talk to user ashish1137. He is in a similar situation. Added mother as non migrating dependent who has 20000 INR pension and is now waiting for CO to request to move her as migrating dependent. You should probably follow his case closely and update your case based on his feedback.


but as per his message he already filed as non migrant... so he cant ammend the application now... right ?


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## bins2013 (Mar 21, 2014)

lovetosmack said:


> @bins2013: The pension you mentioned is enough for a decent living in India. They might not look at it favorably though.
> 
> Talk to user ashish1137. He is in a similar situation. Added mother as non migrating dependent who has 20000 INR pension and is now waiting for CO to request to move her as migrating dependent. You should probably follow his case closely and update your case based on his feedback.


Thanks lovetosmack. Excuse me for this out of topic question. Is there a way to follow a particular user or contact him directly?


----------



## lovetosmack (Apr 22, 2013)

nitinmoudgil said:


> but as per his message he already filed as non migrant... so he cant ammend the application now... right ?


It's still not clear if he can move his mother from non migrating dependent to migrating dependent status. Let's wait and see because I haven't seen before. But I remember _shel and espresso mentioning elsewhere that it is possible. 



bins2013 said:


> Thanks lovetosmack. Excuse me for this out of topic question. Is there a way to follow a particular user or contact him directly?


You can use the PM feature. Click on the username and choose Send a private message or Send a visitor message.


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## ashish1137 (Aug 4, 2013)

lovetosmack said:


> It's still not clear if he can move his mother from non migrating dependent to migrating dependent status. Let's wait and see because I haven't seen before. But I remember _shel and espresso mentioning elsewhere that it is possible.
> 
> You can use the PM feature. Click on the username and choose Send a private message or Send a visitor message.


I am famous.  Hi lovetosmack and nitin and bins.

Bins i did respond to ur pm. btw when did u lodge your visa? I can see a lot of eyes on my case. I hope i set a decent example for everyone.


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## bins2013 (Mar 21, 2014)

ashish1137 said:


> I am famous.  Hi lovetosmack and nitin and bins.
> 
> Bins i did respond to ur pm. btw when did u lodge your visa? I can see a lot of eyes on my case. I hope i set a decent example for everyone.


Hi Ashish

You are famous  . You set a good example for people like me. I must say, you took a bold step.

I saw your PM. I totally agree with you about not lying about the actual income. I will disclose my mother's actual income. Let DIBP decide. We can hope it will be a favourable decision.

I can show proof that she is still dependent on me. Her recent cataract surgery was paid out of my Insurance. Also I paid for her insurance. In my company parent insurance is contributory. 

I lodged my visa on 29 July. The PCC for me and my mother received on the same day without any police verification. Our medical is scheduled for tomorrow.


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## ashish1137 (Aug 4, 2013)

bins2013 said:


> Hi Ashish
> 
> You are famous  . You set a good example for people like me. I must say, you took a bold step.
> 
> ...


All the best Bins. I lodge in 22-jul


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## bins2013 (Mar 21, 2014)

Do we need Proof of functional english for mother?


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## lovetosmack (Apr 22, 2013)

Of course. Proof of Functional English.

How can I prove I have functional English?


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## ehsanonline (Jul 3, 2014)

ehsanonline said:


> ** Do you have any siblings ?*
> I have 03 elder sisters (all married) and I am youngest & the only son. The eldest most sister is in South Australia (near Adelaide) and they are living in Australia from past 6 years.
> The second eldest sister lives in Pakistan.
> 3rd eldest lives in UAE and they are also in the last steps of 189 visa and hoping to get the PR within a month time.
> ...


@Lovetosmack Dear pls reply ... i am counting on ya


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## ashish1137 (Aug 4, 2013)

bins2013 said:


> Do we need Proof of functional english for mother?


We do need but there is a workaround afaik.

My mom has limiyed english knowledge. To bypass the english functional knowledge proof we have to pay an additional fee of 4500 aud which is for english tutions. I am thinking of paying that.


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## Expat2013 (May 15, 2013)

ashish1137, the VAC2 fee for not meeting functional english requirement is AUD 4850 precisely. Plus taxes if any. FYI. 



ashish1137 said:


> We do need but there is a workaround afaik.
> 
> My mom has limiyed english knowledge. To bypass the english functional knowledge proof we have to pay an additional fee of 4500 aud which is for english tutions. I am thinking of paying that.


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## ashish1137 (Aug 4, 2013)

Expat2013 said:


> ashish1137, the VAC2 fee for not meeting functional english requirement is AUD 4850 precisely. Plus taxes if any. FYI.


Thank you for the enlightenment. 
you just made me lose 350 aud more precisely if co agrees on my mothers dependence. :-D

Special thanks.


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## ashish1137 (Aug 4, 2013)

ehsanonline said:


> @Lovetosmack Dear pls reply ... i am counting on ya


What exactly are you looking for as a reply.


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## lovetosmack (Apr 22, 2013)

ehsanonline said:


> @Lovetosmack Dear pls reply ... i am counting on ya


As per the information you provided, Yes, your case looks likely positive given your situation. Please go ahead and add your father. The CO might ask why your other sister is not putting your father in her application but that is very unlikely.


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## naseefoz (Jun 23, 2012)

Guys,
Can I add my spouse's mother and my brother as dependents on the application ( spouse visa)?
Situation is that my mother in law is widowed and my spouse is the youngest of three daughter's who was taking care of her for the past 5 years since her father's death. Can I put her as a dependent to my wife?
Second is my brother. He has just finished his college and dont have a job. I was supporting him financially since I arrived Australia. My spouse is employed in India and she would be now supporting my brother financially. 
In this scenario can my brother be considered as her dependent? By the way, both of my parents are well and they are self sustained.

Please clarify on this


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## Becky26 (Jul 21, 2013)

naseefoz said:


> Guys,
> Can I add my spouse's mother and my brother as dependents on the application ( spouse visa)?
> Situation is that my mother in law is widowed and my spouse is the youngest of three daughter's who was taking care of her for the past 5 years since her father's death. Can I put her as a dependent to my wife?
> Second is my brother. He has just finished his college and dont have a job. I was supporting him financially since I arrived Australia. My spouse is employed in India and she would be now supporting my brother financially.
> ...


I have replied to your query. Please find the reply on the following link:-
http://www.expatforum.com/expats/au...-processing-time-frames-2568.html#post4942810

Thank You!


----------



## _shel (Mar 2, 2014)

naseefoz said:


> Guys,
> Can I add my spouse's mother and my brother as dependents on the application ( spouse visa)?
> Situation is that my mother in law is widowed and my spouse is the youngest of three daughter's who was taking care of her for the past 5 years since her father's death. Can I put her as a dependent to my wife?
> Second is my brother. He has just finished his college and dont have a job. I was supporting him financially since I arrived Australia. My spouse is employed in India and she would be now supporting my brother financially.
> ...


 If your brother lives in india and you Australia he is not your dependent. He needs to get himself a job if hes just left college.


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## ehsanonline (Jul 3, 2014)

lovetosmack said:


> As per the information you provided, Yes, your case looks likely positive given your situation. Please go ahead and add your father. The CO might ask why your other sister is not putting your father in her application but that is very unlikely.


Thanks brother. can u please confirm me the documents i need to attach / show to prove his dependency ... as i mentioned earlier, i never transfered any money to his account. we are living under same roof and use to give him financial support in cash and most of the time i use to buy all the stuff he needs. After the death of my mother he was very dejected and was in deep depression but now mashaALLAH he is back to life once again but still living a retired life. 

Further to the query u have mentioned that could be raised by the CO, i can justify that in Asian culture, its the son's responsibility to take care of his parents, not of the son-in-law / daughter. For a sibling balance test i can well justify the scenario.

Looking forward for your reply as any other tip / documents to be added in the final application.


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## ehsanonline (Jul 3, 2014)

ashish1137 said:


> What exactly are you looking for as a reply.


Let me re-state my case :

489 Visa application to be launched:

Wants to add my father as dependent, mother died 5yrs ago. Father age: 65

i have 03 sis & i am the only son of my parents. All sisters are married. One living in South Aus, One in my home country and one in UAE (about to get 189 visa in a month time may be)

I am married and father of a 2yrs old daughter. Wants to migrate as a whole. 

What kind of documents do i have to show to prove my father as dependent. Further we dont have joint bank accounts/ bank transfers as we are living under the same roof since my birth. After the death of my mother he stopped working as a teacher and now living a retired life. 

Your help will highly be appreciated.

Regards


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## lovetosmack (Apr 22, 2013)

ehsanonline said:


> For a sibling balance test i can well justify the scenario.


Correcting my previous comment.
Balance of Family test is not required for a 189/190/489 PR visa. It only comes into play when applying for a Parent visa.


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## Becky26 (Jul 21, 2013)

ehsanonline said:


> Let me re-state my case :
> 
> 489 Visa application to be launched:
> 
> ...


I think you have a strong case knowing that you will certainly satisfy the "dependent" criteria as you live under the same roof with your father and are supporting him and that your father will be left alone if not allowed to move with you.
*Seniors, please advise. Thanks!!* 

I'd suggest you consult a MARA agent to discuss your case:-
www.mara.gov.au

Hope this helps. Good Luck!!

Kind Regards,
Becky


----------



## ehsanonline (Jul 3, 2014)

lovetosmack said:


> Correcting my previous comment.
> Balance of Family test is not required for a 189/190/489 PR visa. It only comes into play when applying for a Parent visa.


Thanks for the reply. I am still confused for the dependency proof document list.


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## Becky26 (Jul 21, 2013)

*Evidence of Dependency*



ehsanonline said:


> Thanks for the reply. I am still confused for the dependency proof document list.


This is what I could find on the DIBP website:-
http://www.immi.gov.au/migrants/partners/evidence-of-dependency.htm#c

"*Other dependent relatives:-*_
For any dependent relative that you include in your visa application, you must provide evidence of their:
relationship to you
dependency on you
relationship status (for example: married, in a de facto relationship, divorced, separated, etc).
This evidence includes:

- a certified copy of your relative's birth certificate and evidence of their relationship to you;
- evidence that the relative lives in your household;
- evidence that your relative has been dependent on you for at least the last 12 months;
- if your relative is divorced, legally separated or widowed, a copy of:
- the document of legal divorce, for example, their divorce decree absolute (if they are divorced)
- the document of legal separation (if they are separated)
- the death certificate of the deceased partner (if they are widowed)"_

Hope this helps. Good Luck!!

Kind Regards,
Becky


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## ashish1137 (Aug 4, 2013)

ehsanonline said:


> Thanks for the reply. I am still confused for the dependency proof document list.


1. ur n ur dad's address proof for at least past 12 months.
2. any form of info/ bills that shows u r paying house bills. electricity. water. anything which is on ur fathers name.
3. for cash support and other things, a declaration from you and your father.
4. you moms death certificate.
5. If possible, a declaration from doctor which states your father's health and emotional state.

This is all what i can think off.


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## ehsanonline (Jul 3, 2014)

ashish1137 said:


> 1. ur n ur dad's address proof for at least past 12 months.
> 2. any form of info/ bills that shows u r paying house bills. electricity. water. anything which is on ur fathers name.
> 3. for cash support and other things, a declaration from you and your father.
> 4. you moms death certificate.
> ...


Thanks alot for your help and reply. May God bless u


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## ehsanonline (Jul 3, 2014)

Becky26 said:


> This is what I could find on the DIBP website:-
> http://www.immi.gov.au/migrants/partners/evidence-of-dependency.htm#c
> 
> "*Other dependent relatives:-*_
> ...


i have already gone through all these list but was little confused what to attach etc. However i really appreciate your reply & help.


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## Becky26 (Jul 21, 2013)

ehsanonline said:


> i have already gone through all these list but was little confused what to attach etc. However i really appreciate your reply & help.


No worries! The contents of the previous post are self explanatory.
Good Luck!!

Kind Regards,
Becky


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## _shel (Mar 2, 2014)

Would please remember to write in English on the forums. 
Text speak ie how you send sms messages to friends is not allowed on the forum.


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## ashish1137 (Aug 4, 2013)

_shel said:


> Would please remember to write in English on the forums.
> Text speak ie how you send sms messages to friends is not allowed on the forum.


I guess this might be for me as well. Sorry, will be more cautious in future. 

Smile -)) 
Bigger Smile -D)


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## _shel (Mar 2, 2014)

No problem, directed at everyone not just you. People slip, so everyone follows suit and very quickly I cant read a word lol 

But back to proving dependency. 

Dependants bank statements proving they have no income. 

Proof they live in your home. Letters addressed to them from official sources showing your address. Any government registration, passport etc showing your address. 

Any divorce papers or spouse death certificate. 

Your bank statements showing you pay for household costs. 


Thats it. If you can prove he lives in your home and has done for 12 months. That he has no income of his own it shows you pay the bills so he is your dependent.


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## abs1885 (Sep 6, 2014)

Hi.....I have been in Australia for like 4 years on student visa and now i am going to apply for pr.My brother came on student visa aswell 2 years.From last two years i am the one who is paying his rent,fuel,medical bills,clothing,transport and his school fees aswell.I have documented proof of everything.Can i apply him as my dependent along with my PR.


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## _shel (Mar 2, 2014)

How old is your brother? 
What does he do, work, study? 
Is he single? 
What country is he from? 

Where are his parents?


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## abs1885 (Sep 6, 2014)

He is 24 years old.He is studying full.He is single.He is from Pakistan and parents are back in country.He is living with me in Australian.


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## _shel (Mar 2, 2014)

So long as he isnt about to finish his course or turn 25 you probably will be successful in adding him.
If he is soon to finish studying sign him up for another course asap.


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## abs1885 (Sep 6, 2014)

if he turns 25 it means i will not be able to add him as dependant?


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## _shel (Mar 2, 2014)

Not necessarily it just becomes harder to prove him dependent as he is fully an adult and should be, in Australian policy, completely independent and caring for himself. 
If he will still be studying with no breaks and importantly not working then you could probably still do it. 

If he has been working at all alongside his study, earning anything more than pocket money, then there is little chance he can be classed dependent.


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## abs1885 (Sep 6, 2014)

No he was full time student and he has never done any job as his main focus was studies.But as my parents are alive can i still add him as my depandant as he is living with me from the last 2 years....


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## lovetosmack (Apr 22, 2013)

abs1885 said:


> No he was full timeWhat are they student and he has never done any job as his main focus was studies.But as my parents are alive can i still add him as my depandant as he is living with me from the last 2 years....


Why are your parents not paying for him? How old are they? What are they currently doing?


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## jhp (Jun 25, 2013)

Hello friends,

I am about the apply for subclass 190 (NSW) , but before applying I have some doubts regarding including my mother in visa application, can somebody please throw some light on below queries

1) At the time of filling EOI , I did not included my mother, but now I want to, can this be possible ?

2) My mother is alone, she is 60+, as my father passed away long back, I am her only child, does this prove enough dependency on me.

3) My mother was government servant, and draws pension, and the house in which we live is owned by her, so financial dependency is not getting proved.

My question here is can I include my mother in such scenario ? of course PCC and Medicals would not be a problem for her.


I am really confused, it would be great if somebody can guide me here.

Thanks in advance.


----------



## shiraz (Jul 4, 2012)

jhp said:


> Hello friends,
> 
> I am about the apply for subclass 190 (NSW) , but before applying I have some doubts regarding including my mother in visa application, can somebody please throw some light on below queries
> 
> ...


It will be difficult to prove her financial dependency on you. You will have to provide enough evidence to CO that her pension is not enough to live by.

House ownership with her, where you live is also a problem.


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## jhp (Jun 25, 2013)

shiraz said:


> It will be difficult to prove her financial dependency on you. You will have to provide enough evidence to CO that her pension is not enough to live by.
> 
> House ownership with her, where you live is also a problem.



Thanks Shiraz,

I was wondering that CO may consider other factors too, where I am the only dependent. I am Confused.


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## _shel (Mar 2, 2014)

jhp said:


> Thanks Shiraz,
> 
> I was wondering that CO may consider other factors too, where I am the only dependent. I am Confused.


 No, the fact you are the only child does not count. She needs to be 100% dependent on you emotionally, physically and financially dependent. She is not as she has income and owns her own property.


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## jhp (Jun 25, 2013)

_shel said:


> No, the fact you are the only child does not count. She needs to be 100% dependent on you emotionally, physically and financially dependent. She is not as she has income and owns her own property.


Thanks _shel,

Is there any other option, through with I can take here with me, I know parent visa options but this takes time, are there any visitor / short term visa, through which my mom can accompany me while my initial entry or may be month later ?

Thanks again!


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## _shel (Mar 2, 2014)

Not really, she can use a tourist visa but it would be 3 month stays maximum, maybe less. It may be difficult to obtain as you are not eligible to sponsor but having a son with PR and her having no job and ties back home make her a high risk.


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## abs1885 (Sep 6, 2014)

Your other relatives will be considered dependent if all of the following apply:

they do not have a spouse or de facto partnerthey are wholly or substantially reliant on your financial support for their basic living needs (food, shelter and clothing)they are more reliant on you for support than on any other person or sourcethey have relied on you for at least*the 12 months immediately before you lodge your application.

this is statement from immi site.I dont think so she had to rely on you 100 percent as it does say substantially.Secondly in my opinion why dont you just apply her visa along with you and take a chance.It is better to discuss with MARA agent


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## jhp (Jun 25, 2013)

Thanks _shel and abs1885, I want my mom to accompany me because she is alone and emotionally weak, thus considering all this options, let see, I will discuss this with MARA agent, apart from financial dependency, all goes in my favor. A question though, if I include her in my application and CO thinks that there is no financial dependency or find any problems with here medicals, will CO allow my application to move ahead by excluding her ?


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## _shel (Mar 2, 2014)

jhp said:


> Thanks _shel and abs1885, I want my mom to accompany me because she is alone and emotionally weak, thus considering all this options, let see, I will discuss this with MARA agent, apart from financial dependency, all goes in my favor. A question though, if I include her in my application and CO thinks that there is no financial dependency or find any problems with here medicals, will CO allow my application to move ahead by excluding her ?


 Not necessarily because they dont like to split families. You are claiming she is dependent but cant prove it because its not true.


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## _shel (Mar 2, 2014)

abs1885 said:


> Your other relatives will be considered dependent if all of the following apply:
> 
> they do not have a spouse or de facto partnerthey are wholly or substantially reliant on your financial support for their basic living needs (food, shelter and clothing)they are more reliant on you for support than on any other person or sourcethey have relied on you for at least*the 12 months immediately before you lodge your application.
> 
> this is statement from immi site.I dont think so she had to rely on you 100 percent as it does say substantially.Secondly in my opinion why dont you just apply her visa along with you and take a chance.It is better to discuss with MARA agent


 She isnt reliant on him for any of those things, she has income and her own home so cant be more reliant on him than anyone else or herself. 

It is just your opinion after all


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## jhp (Jun 25, 2013)

_shel said:


> She isnt reliant on him for any of those things, she has income and her own home so cant be more reliant on him than anyone else or herself.
> 
> It is just your opinion after all


I agree. I will consult a MARA agent for any other options.


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## ashish1e834 (Jul 22, 2013)

Hi Lovetosmack & Shel 

I have got SA grant but, really worried about the rejection (specially for my mother) as the fee at stake is $ 8 k for a family of 4 (me, wife, kid & mom). I wanted to take you opinion before I take the risk. 

1. My mother is approaching 60 & is a widow. We've been staying together since, I was born. I have rent agreements & our current address on the passport that can validate this.
2. She gets a pension of $ 20/- a month.
3. I have been depositing about $ 200/- a month in her accounts for the past 2 years now to show financial dependency.
4. The house we live in has been bought by us a year and a half back. On the house papers it has her name & mine.

Kindly provide me your inputs. I got SA SS about 2 weeks back but, since then I have been in dilemma. Its not that previously I didn't think through it but, now since I researched more I got worried about this whole situation.

Thanks
Ashish


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## _shel (Mar 2, 2014)

Sounds like she may qualify. You all still live in the same address? If she can pass medical and ielts you will probably be successful.


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## ashish1e834 (Jul 22, 2013)

Oh yes Im still with her.

Thanks for such a quick revert Shel


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## Becky26 (Jul 21, 2013)

I agree with _shel 
If you live in the same house with your mother, and by the information you've shared she IS dependent on you for her basic necessities, she should be fine. Also if she clears IELTS  
Good Luck!
Please do share the good news with us when it comes.

Kind Regards,
Becky


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## ashish1e834 (Jul 22, 2013)

thanks becky


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## Becky26 (Jul 21, 2013)

*Good Luck!!!*



ashish1e834 said:


> thanks becky


No worries, happy to help


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## mohitk.mariner (Apr 21, 2014)

Hi, 
I am just about to submit my EOI and was wondering if my mother can be shown as a dependent in the application?
I am 29 year old ships engineer applying for a PR - independent category!
As: 
She is a single mother, I can show her financial dependence on me by showing transaction records towards her account for the last one year also can show she is been living with me in the same house..
But I have a younger brother who is 25 years and working.. will this affect my case?

Most of the people that I have contacted AGENTS have told me it is not possible..


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## lovetosmack (Apr 22, 2013)

mohitk.mariner said:


> Hi,
> I am just about to submit my EOI and was wondering if my mother can be shown as a dependent in the application?
> I am 29 year old ships engineer applying for a PR - independent category!
> As:
> ...


Where do your mother & brother live?
Is your brother married?
Why isn't your brother sharing your mother's expenses and responsibilities?

These are the questions DIBP might come up with.


----------



## mohitk.mariner (Apr 21, 2014)

We all live together in a house .. and me and my brother are not married.. 
he plans to make a mid carrier switch real soon and may not be able to take care of mom financially..
plus he may even leave Delhi and move to mumbai soon.. and that is why I would ideally want my mother to be with me..

Though he does help her financially but that may stop in due course of time with him being in the struggling phase himself!


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## Scattley (Jul 30, 2012)

In that case immigration would say she was dependant on both of you, assuming she has no money or pension of her own...which would mean she is not eligible to be your dependant for a visa. Unless your brother is disabled he is expected, by Australian immigration, to assist your mother financially...because he is choosing not to ( by changing career) is of no consequence.


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## _shel (Mar 2, 2014)

mohitk.mariner said:


> We all live together in a house .. and me and my brother are not married..
> he plans to make a mid carrier switch real soon and may not be able to take care of mom financially..
> plus he may even leave Delhi and move to mumbai soon.. and that is why I would ideally want my mother to be with me..
> 
> Though he does help her financially but that may stop in due course of time with him being in the struggling phase himself!


 She doesnt sound like your dependent to me. Sounds like you are one of her two sons still living at home instead of moving in to your own place that's all.


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## mohitk.mariner (Apr 21, 2014)

The way we function in India is different.. 
Even after growing up and having your own families people still live with their parents.. 
its like - not leaving them to fend for themselves at that age.. they need financial and emotional assistance along with medical help and other things..

I feel that having access to better living standards and a different way of life in Australia would be better for her as well..
The only thing is how to get the CO understand this..


----------



## Annsiya (Sep 17, 2014)

Hey Guys,
I have added my husband as non migrating dependant.We got married in oct 2013 and I am worried whether I made a wrong answer.Plz clarify my doubts.:confused2:
Thanks Annsiya


----------



## Scattley (Jul 30, 2012)

mohitk.mariner said:


> The way we function in India is different..
> Even after growing up and having your own families people still live with their parents..
> its like - not leaving them to fend for themselves at that age.. they need financial and emotional assistance along with medical help and other things..
> 
> ...


That is the issue...the way you do things in India is just that...in India. You are wishing to move to Australia where the government requires all adults to work until the age of 65 (soon to be 70) before they are classed as being dependant on the government. Prior to that age they are required to support themselves or be classed as unemployed. Adults are responsible to save for their retirement and support themselves. We do not expect children to support us...it is our job to support our children until they are adults not the other way around. So the government is very strict in what they consider as a dependent on visa applications....remember you are moving out of your culture into another one where that cultures norms are going to be what you live with. 

Australia may be better for her but she has not contributed to the economy 
(like you will with paying taxes) and will just be taking taking until she passes....what is in it for the government? Your CO has no call to make...he does not make or bend the rules...the government policy is what you need to look at. If your mother is unable to work..due to physical impairment you might have a case IF you did not have a brother. 

Question to ask is ....if you were to die today, what would happen to your mother? If she would be left to live on the streets with no support (or the government would take over), she is your dependant...if your brother would change his career plans and support her then she is not your dependant.


----------



## Dorie (Jul 3, 2014)

Hello all, 

I'm preparing the documents to logde visa. I'm quite confused about this. I have 2 kids : 3 and 6 years old. Can anyone explain to me: 

For all children included in the application aged 18 years or older, provide a scanned colour copy of:

evidence of their current or recent formal studies

Should I get an confirmation letter from my children school by my own form, word to ask them to confirm that my children are studying there?
evidence of financial dependency on you
What can be the evidence for that? How's about the kids'age? It is clear that they completely depent on their parents when they're only 3 and 6 years old. 

Your help is really appreciated. Many thanks.


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## skksundar (Apr 29, 2014)

*Nope, you dont need them!!*



Dorie said:


> Hello all,
> 
> I'm preparing the documents to logde visa. I'm quite confused about this. I have 2 kids : 3 and 6 years old. Can anyone explain to me:
> 
> ...


Dorie,
The dependency and studies proof are meant for teens aged 18 or more. Not for your kids!!

Having their birth-certificates/passport should be enough.


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## _shel (Mar 2, 2014)

Minors are always dependent on their parents until age 18. No evidence is required to prove it. 

Only those including children that are not theirs or dependents over age 18 need to provide evidence.


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## Dorie (Jul 3, 2014)

_shel said:


> Minors are always dependent on their parents until age 18. No evidence is required to prove it.
> 
> Only those including children that are not theirs or dependents over age 18 need to provide evidence.


Thank you for your kind explanation.


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## Dorie (Jul 3, 2014)

skksundar said:


> Dorie,
> The dependency and studies proof are meant for teens aged 18 or more. Not for your kids!!
> 
> Having their birth-certificates/passport should be enough.


Thank you very much, Skksundrar!


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## ashish1e834 (Jul 22, 2013)

Scattley said:


> That is the issue...the way you do things in India is just that...in India. You are wishing to move to Australia where the government requires all adults to work until the age of 65 (soon to be 70) before they are classed as being dependant on the government. Prior to that age they are required to support themselves or be classed as unemployed. Adults are responsible to save for their retirement and support themselves. We do not expect children to support us...it is our job to support our children until they are adults not the other way around. So the government is very strict in what they consider as a dependent on visa applications....remember you are moving out of your culture into another one where that cultures norms are going to be what you live with.
> 
> Australia may be better for her but she has not contributed to the economy
> (like you will with paying taxes) and will just be taking taking until she passes....what is in it for the government? Your CO has no call to make...he does not make or bend the rules...the government policy is what you need to look at. If your mother is unable to work..due to physical impairment you might have a case IF you did not have a brother.
> ...



I mus say that you have a an amazingly clear thought process, anyone would be super impressed with your straight forwardness.

However, I think the comparison you are drawing & the subtleness with which you are describing things in India not good were not required. India was ruled by Britishers for about 200 years so, things in India are ought to be a little behind than other countries which were not under the imperial rule. We support our children till 21 or, till whenever we can cuz that is how we are & if people in other counties do not then it is their way of living which is different from us, practical & acceptable.


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## _shel (Mar 2, 2014)

ashish1e834 said:


> I mus say that you have a an amazingly clear thought process, anyone would be super impressed with your straight forwardness.
> 
> However, I think the comparison you are drawing & the subtleness with which you are describing things in India not good were not required. India was ruled by Britishers for about 200 years so, things in India are ought to be a little behind than other countries which were not under the imperial rule. We support our children till 21 or, till whenever we can cuz that is how we are & if people in other counties do not then it is their way of living which is different from us, practical & acceptable.


 I must say that you need to realise you are intending to migrate to Australia not India. It is Australia's Laws, policy and customs that will dictate if you can migrate, who will be accepted as depedent and who not and your everyday life once there. 

What you do in India whist noble is due mosty through necessity due to a lack of a welfare state and free and acceptable healthcare. 

What on earth has what happened 200 years ago have to do with India today? A wealthy country that spends billions on a space programme whilst millions live in abstract poverty 

Fact is Australia and most other countries with welfare systems in place dont want to give residence to pensioners, those that can't/wont work and contribute to society. Why because it costs a lot of money. Health care alone for someone 60+ is 10x that of someone in their 40s. Then add on pensions, benefits, social care suport and all this for a nil contribution to the economy. 

Hence why they have just scrapped the parent visa, why retirement visas were scrapped years ago, why bar for the truly dependent according to their own rules or very wealthy you don't find any developed country offering retirement visas or adult dependent visas.


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## ashish1e834 (Jul 22, 2013)

Shel

I understand yours & Scattley's point. Like I said the point Scattley made is correct but, the comparison with India wasnt really relevant. 

Thought I can explain very well what 200 yr old slavery has to do with present but, it really is irrelevant for me to unnecessaary get into debate/ arguments which just take space & not help anyone.


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## The_Boss (Jul 10, 2014)

_shel said:


> What on earth has what happened 200 years ago have to do with India today? A wealthy country that spends billions on a space programme whilst millions live in abstract poverty


Apologies for not posting something related to Australian immigration. I swear I won't do it again 


Suppose, India was spending money in developing their export market of, say rice, would that be a more fitting investment? 

India is not only looking to make strides in science; it is trying to get a major chunk of the $304 billion space market. If they continue to launch crafts at 1/10th the cost of NASA, many more countries would then want to send in their crafts for regional studies. This will certainly benefit the Indian economy in the years to come.


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## _shel (Mar 2, 2014)

Yes it 'may' help in the future but the help is needed now. Plus the group and size of such group it would help in the future isnt the appropriate target group imo.


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## Becky26 (Jul 21, 2013)

So off the topic right now....LOL


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## _shel (Mar 2, 2014)

Oppps naughty moderator :focus:

Though I always thought we needed more chit chat other than about visas


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## Becky26 (Jul 21, 2013)

_shel said:


> Oppps naughty moderator :focus:
> 
> Though I always thought we needed more chit chat other than about visas


Haha!! Fair enough _shel 
Visa process can be depressing and with the overload of information that's out there, we all do need a bit of chit-chat 
Keep up the good work


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## ashwani.jagota (Feb 17, 2014)

Hi Shel,

Was going through your replies which actually are similar to my situation. Was wondering if you can assess my case and give your expert opinion

A) I have applied 190 on 6th Aug and included my mother as a dependent along with my wife and 3 yrs old son.

B) My mother is a widow and I am the only son. We are staying together since my birth.

C) She was a Govt servent and draws a pension of 25k along with family pension of 10 k.

D) I have given statements of joint bank accounts, Proof of address as dependency proofs.

E) Her medical was referred to MoC which is cleared now. No case officer has been assigned till now. However I called DIBP and the gentleman there told me that medicals for all four of us are cleared, though my mother has to fill 815 form when asked by CO.

F) Have also submitted proof of functional English through university certificate.( Medium of instructions was English in graduation).

Was seeking your opinion on chances of getting visa for my mother as dependent.

Must also mention here that one of my friends who has already migrated to OZ had exactly similar case as mine.


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## ashwani.jagota (Feb 17, 2014)

Hi, 
Would appreciate if anyone can reply


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## skksundar (Apr 29, 2014)

ashwani.jagota said:


> Was going through your replies which actually are similar to my situation. Was wondering if you can assess my case and give your expert opinion
> 
> C) She was a Govt servent and draws a pension of 25k along with family pension of 10 k.


Ashwani,

I have posted the same query in this very thread a while ago. Shel informed me that My mother is not my dependent since she draws a pension of 9k every month and I have my own house here in India, where she can stay and continue a decent living with the money. 

But am curious about your friend's case. May be overlooked by the CO, but tell me if his parent had a property in their name or draw a decent figure of pension just like yours?


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## ashwani.jagota (Feb 17, 2014)

My friend's mother was granted the visa . She was also retired govt officer , widower and had property in her name. Me and my friend do not have any siblings as well


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## cancerianlrules (Feb 6, 2014)

ashwani.jagota said:


> My friend's mother was granted the visa . She was also retired govt officer , widower and had property in her name. Me and my friend do not have any siblings as well


What about the pension?

Pension is an income, and is significant in your mother's case. 

Dependent would primarily mean, reliant for food shelter and clothing. If she has a sufficient regular income, she can easily obtain food shelter and clothing without depending on anyone else. Its simple logic.


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## Becky26 (Jul 21, 2013)

cancerianlrules said:


> What about the pension?
> 
> Pension is an income, and is significant in your mother's case.
> 
> Dependent would primarily mean, reliant for food shelter and clothing. If she has a sufficient regular income, she can easily obtain food shelter and clothing without depending on anyone else. Its simple logic.


Spot on!


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## ashwani.jagota (Feb 17, 2014)

Just one question.. Would they ask for pension certificate?? Do you know someone who has submitted pension documents with CO. 

Anyways I have added my mother as dependent in my application considering my friends case. Let's see what happens.


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## _shel (Mar 2, 2014)

ashwani.jagota said:


> Just one question.. Would they ask for pension certificate?? Do you know someone who has submitted pension documents with CO.
> 
> Anyways I have added my mother as dependent in my application considering my friends case. Let's see what happens.


 Yes they will. They will also want copies of all her bank statements.


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## ashwani.jagota (Feb 17, 2014)

I feel that there is dotted line as far as term " Dependency" is concerned in immigration laws. My case...

1) I have no other siblings.. Mother's age is 62. 
2) She is a widow.
3) We are staying together since my birth.
5) I have bought medical insurance and have joint fixed deposits.

If the only criteria to disapprove dependency is her pension than you are right. 

If Australian immigration law considers other factors like mentioned above than certainly this issue draws a dotted line.

I have taken a risk knowing the fact that visas have been granted to parents (just recently).

So let's be optimistic and pray for the fact that CO thinks from my side of the line which is "Dotted"


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## cancerianlrules (Feb 6, 2014)

ashwani.jagota said:


> 1) I have no other siblings.. Mother's age is 62.
> As per Australian law parents are not considered as dependent on the children, irrespective of their age. This is crucial as you are applying for an Australian PR and not an Indian Visa.
> 2) She is a widow.
> Not denying the fact. But she has an income of Rs.35k (25k+10k) per month, which is more than sufficient to support herself.
> ...


Your friend's mother getting a PR (based on dependency) despite having sufficient income is an exception rather than a norm. 

I can relate to your situation and hope you too get lucky like your friend. But keep a reality check of the facts.



Good luck.


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## _shel (Mar 2, 2014)

ashwani.jagota said:


> I feel that there is dotted line as far as term " Dependency" is concerned in immigration laws. My case...
> 
> 1) I have no other siblings.. Mother's age is 62.
> 2) She is a widow.
> ...


 The point is it is Law, which unlike in India and other places is 100% inflexible. 

The Law states the the dependent should be financially dependent on you for all of their needs, that is food, housing, clothes, utilities, medical costs etc. Having your own substantial income means you cant qualify on that point. 

The only way someone manages to be granted a visa in such circumstances is with deception AKA visa fraud.


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## ashwani.jagota (Feb 17, 2014)

Let's see guys. Thanks for your valuable advise.


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## Ani.pepe (May 24, 2013)

Pls could some one help me on the parents visa. I live in Sydney and arrived here in April 2014 with my husband and 5 yr old child. I got my father on a tourist Visa (subclass 600) who is dependent on me due to his age (I am the only child). This has a No further stay. i would like to get this waived and get a long term visa or a PR please advise on my options. He has a 12 Month visa which ends on April 2015. I would want this to be sorted Asap. Please advise


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## _shel (Mar 2, 2014)

You can't. Waivers only apply to spouses in certain circumstances, those whos circumstances are such that they cant travel so need a new visa ie someone in hospital seriously ill, and criminal justice or asylum reasons. 

Send him home and apply from there.


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## Ani.pepe (May 24, 2013)

_shel said:


> You can't. Waivers only apply to spouses in certain circumstances, those whos circumstances are such that they cant travel so need a new visa ie someone in hospital seriously ill, and criminal justice or asylum reasons.
> 
> Send him home and apply from there.


Whats the best visa for parents once he is in india


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## _shel (Mar 2, 2014)

Ani.pepe said:


> Whats the best visa for parents once he is in india


http://www.expatforum.com/expats/australia-expat-forum-expats-living-australia/564370-re-opening-non-contributory-parent-other-family-visas.html


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## Ani.pepe (May 24, 2013)

_shel said:


> http://www.expatforum.com/expats/australia-expat-forum-expats-living-australia/564370-re-opening-non-contributory-parent-other-family-visas.html


Thanks so much _shel. have a great evening


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## skksundar (Apr 29, 2014)

_shel said:


> http://www.expatforum.com/expats/australia-expat-forum-expats-living-australia/564370-re-opening-non-contributory-parent-other-family-visas.html


_shel,

Why do you quote this as the best Parents visa? The contributory visa sounds realistic, right? This visa has longer waiting period and can one travel & stay in Australia for long term during the application process??


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## Becky26 (Jul 21, 2013)

skksundar said:


> _shel,
> 
> Why do you quote this as the best Parents visa? The contributory visa sounds realistic, right? This visa has longer waiting period and can one travel & stay in Australia for long term during the application process??


I think because not everyone has spare 100K (for 2) in their savings 
Good Luck!

Kind Regards,
Becky


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## _shel (Mar 2, 2014)

Got it in one. I'm i awe of anyone that would have that money spare, plus the visa fee, bond and visa expenses :jaw: without leaving themselves with a visa but otherwise destitute! 

Of course the contributory one is best if you can afford it.


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## Becky26 (Jul 21, 2013)

_shel said:


> Got it in one. I'm i awe of anyone that would have that money spare, plus the visa fee, bond and visa expenses :jaw: without leaving themselves with a visa but otherwise destitute!
> 
> Of course the contributory one is best if you can afford it.


Exactly!! The 100K does not include visa fees, lawyer's fees (if I'm gonna be spending this much money I wouldn't leave any stone unturned hence the professional help will be a must), the Assurance of support (AU$14000) and the visitor visa fees and expenses for the parents during the waiting period of 2 years when the application will be processed.

So it's a very expensive option.


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## skksundar (Apr 29, 2014)

Becky26 said:


> Exactly!! The 100K does not include visa fees, lawyer's fees (if I'm gonna be spending this much money I wouldn't leave any stone unturned hence the professional help will be a must), the Assurance of support (AU$14000) and the visitor visa fees and expenses for the parents during the waiting period of 2 years when the application will be processed.
> 
> So it's a very expensive option.


Are you saying I have to pay 50K just for fast application processing ? Also am not getting what's the "assurance of support fee"? Why should I hire a lawyer for these matters in first place? Or should that be a MARA agent? Can you please list down these charges a little more in detail ?immi.g


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## Becky26 (Jul 21, 2013)

*Contributory Parent (Temporary) visa (subclass 173)*



skksundar said:


> Are you saying I have to pay 50K just for fast application processing ? Also am not getting what's the "assurance of support fee"? Why should I hire a lawyer for these matters in first place? Or should that be a MARA agent? Can you please list down these charges a little more in detail ?immi.g


1. Have a read of the Visa Application Fees table properly. 
As per the current fees, Contributory Parent Visa fees is about AU$3,555- 1st Visa Application Charge (VAC1) (for 2 applicants- Father and Mother)

2. The Bond that will be paid to the Australian Government in the form of 2nd Visa Application Charge (VAC2) is about AU$60,000 (for 2)
https://www.immi.gov.au/Help/Pages/fees-charges/visa.aspx

3. Assurance of Support (refundable after a period of 10 years) is-
Main Applicant- AU$10,000
Secondary Applicant AU$4,000---> makes it AU$14,000
Have a read of the below mentioned link:-
https://www.immi.gov.au/media/fact-sheets/34aos.htm

4. Hiring the lawyer was my own perspective. I wrote if I was sponsoring my parents and spending close to 100K "I" would definitely be hiring a lawyer. I would not the risk of doing such a cumbersome, complicated, expensive and stressful procedure on my own without the help of an experienced registered professional. 
And yes, anyone hiring a migration lawyer MUST be careful that they hire a MARA agent. Any unregistered lawyer providing immigration service for migration to Australia (in or outside Australia) are breaking the law and penalties of up to 10 years jail can apply that's why it is it the safest option to stick to a MARA agent
Fees could range between AU$1,500-AU$4,000

*Grand Total-->* AU$3,555+AU$60,000+AU$14,000+AU$4,000= *AU$81,555 for 2 parents (estimated)*

Hope this helps. 

Kind Regards,
Becky


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## Mons1eur (Oct 10, 2013)

Hello Guys,

I have a question. I have filed my Sub Class 190 Visa and including my wife as a migrating dependent. While filling out the details in my immi account, it asked for the details of non migrating dependents. I went ahead and put my mother's details in there. 

Now my question is that i am not sure if my mother will be migrating soon and do i have to get her medicals and PCC as well. My mother lives in India and i am on a work assignment overseas and will not be returning to India soon. 

Do i have to provide the dependent proofs as well. Is there a possibility to remove her from the application.. Would that affect if she intends to migrate later on.

Your expert advice will be highly appreciated.

Thanks,
Sandhar


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## Becky26 (Jul 21, 2013)

sandhar13 said:


> Hello Guys,
> 
> I have a question. I have filed my Sub Class 190 Visa and including my wife as a migrating dependent. While filling out the details in my immi account, it asked for the details of non migrating dependents. I went ahead and put my mother's details in there.
> 
> ...


If you add your mother as a non-migrating family member in the current visa application you're going to be submitting, it shouldn't affect her eligibility to apply for a visa to Australia in the future. It just means that she is not migrating with you right now.
Hope this helps. Good Luck!

Kind Regards,
Becky


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## Mons1eur (Oct 10, 2013)

Becky26 said:


> If you add your mother as a non-migrating family member in the current visa application you're going to be submitting, it shouldn't affect her eligibility to apply for a visa to Australia in the future. It just means that she is not migrating with you right now.
> Hope this helps. Good Luck!
> 
> Kind Regards,
> Becky


Thanks for the prompt response Becky. However, do i still need to obtain her PCC and medicals for my application to be processed. The application in my Immi Account has the option to upload these 2 documents for her.

Thanks,
Sandhar


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## Becky26 (Jul 21, 2013)

sandhar13 said:


> Thanks for the prompt response Becky. However, do i still need to obtain her PCC and medicals for my application to be processed. The application in my Immi Account has the option to upload these 2 documents for her.
> 
> Thanks,
> Sandhar


No worries Sandhar! Happy to help 
Yes, I've read about immigration requiring character certificates and medicals from the applicant's partner and parents. Good Luck!

Kind Regards,
Becky


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## Mons1eur (Oct 10, 2013)

For Spouse i am aware however, do i need to provide medical and PCC for my mother also as she is mentioned as a non migrating family member.


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## ashish1137 (Aug 4, 2013)

sandhar13 said:


> For Spouse i am aware however, do i need to provide medical and PCC for my mother also as she is mentioned as a non migrating family member.


yes


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## Becky26 (Jul 21, 2013)

sandhar13 said:


> For Spouse i am aware however, do i need to provide medical and PCC for my mother also as she is mentioned as a non migrating family member.


Apologies for the late reply. Yes she might have to provide their PCC and medicals if AHC requests for it. 

Although I don't know why AHC makes the non-migration parent undergo medicals and request for their PCC. Anyone explain this one please 
Thanks!

Good Luck Sandhar, wish you a timely grant 

Kind Regards,
Becky


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## Mons1eur (Oct 10, 2013)

Becky26 said:


> Apologies for the late reply. Yes she might have to provide their PCC and medicals if AHC requests for it.
> 
> Although I don't know why AHC makes the non-migration parent undergo medicals and request for their PCC. Anyone explain this one please
> Thanks!
> ...


Thanks Becky,

Lets see, how it goes I am also planning to write to DIBP to clarify on this matter.

Thanks,
Sandhar


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## _shel (Mar 2, 2014)

Because many people were playing the system by adding people as non migrating who clearly didn't meet the requirements through character or health. They then sponsored that person later once they have PR. 

Health and character waivers are available for family visas which are not available to skilled applicants. 

Thus the person who Australia doesn't want in the country is granted a visa. So all non migrating dependent now need checks and if they fail you fail too. 

If you don't add them as non migrating or mention them as other family you can't later claim they are dependent to get them a visa.


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## Becky26 (Jul 21, 2013)

_shel said:


> Because many people were playing the system by adding people as non migrating who clearly didn't meet the requirements through character or health. They then sponsored that person later once they have PR.
> 
> Health and character waivers are available for family visas which are not available to skilled applicants.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the explanation _shel 
I added my parents, brother and sister-in-law as non migrating members but they weren't requested to provide medicals or PCCs. Although my brother and sister-in-law do not live in India.

Kind Regards,
Becky


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## _shel (Mar 2, 2014)

Are you sure you put them as non migrating dependent and not as 'other family'? 

Your CO would have probably realised it was an error because there was no way they could be your dependent in migration policy if they didnt live in your hone, were married etc.


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## Becky26 (Jul 21, 2013)

_shel said:


> Are you sure you put them as non migrating dependent and not as 'other family'?
> 
> Your CO would have probably realised it was an error because there was no way they could be your dependent in migration policy if they didnt live in your hone, were married etc.


Oh no! They are not dependent on me. Currently I'm depended on them since I don't have a job...lol
My dad has his own business  and I live with them in the house they own.

So yeah, I must've put them as other family. That shouldn't hinder me from sponsoring them to Australia in the future thought, or would it?


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## _shel (Mar 2, 2014)

No not at all but you couldnt sponsor as dependents, but that option is limited for parents. You get your Australian husband to sponsor them, carries more weight and he could do it sooner than you could


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## Becky26 (Jul 21, 2013)

_shel said:


> No not at all but you couldnt sponsor as dependents, but that option is limited for parents. You get your Australian husband to sponsor them, carries more weight and he could do it sooner than you could


Yeah, but on a visitor visa/parent visa I could? I thought my husband couldn't sponsor them  and that only the child could do it, not their partner? 
What kind of visa could he sponsor them on if he were to sponsor them? Thanks a lot for your help _shel  Appreciate your time.

Kind Regards,
Becky


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## ashish1137 (Aug 4, 2013)

_shel said:


> No not at all but you couldnt sponsor as dependents, but that option is limited for parents. You get your Australian husband to sponsor them, carries more weight and he could do it sooner than you could


Hi Shel,

Thank you for your support. I got the grant along with complete family.


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## ashwani.jagota (Feb 17, 2014)

Congrats ashish1137. Did you get visa for your mother as well?? If yes, this is a great news indeed


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## ashish1137 (Aug 4, 2013)

ashwani.jagota said:


> Congrats ashish1137. Did you get visa for your mother as well?? If yes, this is a great news indeed


yes ashwani. thank you.


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## Alex38 (Oct 28, 2014)

My wife and me live in one household with my step son during 17 years of our Canadian residency. He was my dependent when we came in Canada in 1997. However it is his responsibility to pay mortgage for our current house. I am sort of dependent from him because I am in the process of looking new job. Mortgage payments are coming from his banking account during last eight years. Can my wife and I be included as dependents in his application for Skilled Nominated visa (subclass 190) in Australia? I am not comfortable to fill a separate application. We are used to leave in one household and would not like the idea to be separated to immigrate in Australia. Do immigration rules for New Zealand differ from Australian immigration practice?


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## _shel (Mar 2, 2014)

No, if both parents are alive they are not the dependent of their child by DIBP policy. 
A married couple are dependent on each other not their child regardless of what the child pays. 

NZ rules are the same.


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## ashwani.jagota (Feb 17, 2014)

_shel
I Have got visa for entire family, including my mother. You advised that I can't get visa for my mother (No offence please) so I should not apply for her.

I believed that there is a dotted line as far as single parent visa is concerned and I have crossed this line.

Thanks anyways for all the help.


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## _shel (Mar 2, 2014)

ashwani.jagota said:


> _shel
> I Have got visa for entire family, including my mother. You advised that I can't get visa for my mother (No offence please) so I should not apply for her.
> 
> I believed that there is a dotted line as far as single parent visa is concerned and I have crossed this line.
> ...


 We all know how you planned on working that one from your previous posts  Karma will see to that.


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## padmayogesh (Jan 14, 2014)

*Dependent Parent query*

Hi Seniors/Experts,

I have received invite for 189 Visa and in the process of applying. Please provide your advise/thoughts if I can add my father as dependent migrant based on below details:

1)	My father, aged 60, a widower stays with me but the address in his passport and mine are not same.

2)	The document(s) where we have same address is 
a.	Bank Account documents which is a joint account, but only 1 or 2 transactions takes place in an year.
b.	Cooking Gas connection which is on my dad’s name.

3)	We stay in a rented accommodation and rent is paid by me to landlord in cash. We don’t have any rental agreement in place to prove that we stay together.

4)	Power/Electricity consumption bills are paid by me from my bank A/c.

5)	My father was working for a private firm until last year and he doesn’t receive any pension.

6)	Certain amount is being transferred to my dad’s account [ not the one I mentioned in point 2 ] every month either from my or wife’s account, but it’s not for his monthly expenses why I say this because, after 2-3 days he transfers them to third person. Would CO think that I have been doing this keeping my immigration plans in mind, which is not the case. I have been doing this for the last 2 years or so.

7)	I am the only son and have 2 married sisters. Elder one stays in the same city as mine and the younger one in Melbourne who is an Australian citizen.

8)	Coming to medicals, he is on medication for blood pressure but otherwise no other ailments. Touchwood!!

Considering the above mentioned points, do I have a strong case to add my dad as dependent migrant. If not, what else is required to prove dependency.

If CO is not satisfied with the documents I submit, will my application which includes my wife would be out rightly rejected or will I be asked to withdraw my dad’s application before processing mine and wife’s?

Sorry to post such a lengthy one but thought I would provide all the details at one go to know my case better.

Thanks for your time in reading this post.

Regards
Yogesh


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## _shel (Mar 2, 2014)

Possibly but you need more evidence of you living in the same home. A gas connection and your word is not enough. Bank account proves nothing as its not his or your main account and appears contrived for visa purposes.


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## padmayogesh (Jan 14, 2014)

_shel said:


> Possibly but you need more evidence of you living in the same home. A gas connection and your word is not enough. Bank account proves nothing as its not his or your main account and appears contrived for visa purposes.


Thanks for the quick reply Shel. Just to add, the joint bank account exists for good no. of years and we just use it to access safe and pay it's rent.

Can you please help me in answering, "If CO is not satisfied with the documents I submit, will my application which includes my wife would be out rightly rejected or will I be asked to withdraw my dad’s application before processing mine and wife’s?"


----------



## GinjaNINJA (Apr 29, 2014)

padmayogesh said:


> Thanks for the quick reply Shel. Just to add, the joint bank account exists for good no. of years and we just use it to access safe and pay it's rent.
> 
> Can you please help me in answering, "If CO is not satisfied with the documents I submit, will my application which includes my wife would be out rightly rejected or will I be asked to withdraw my dad’s application before processing mine and wife’s?"


Its either all(visa granted) or all(visa rejected). There is no luxury of choice. No refund for rejection either.


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## _shel (Mar 2, 2014)

GinjaNINJA said:


> Its either all(visa granted) or all(visa rejected). There is no luxury of choice. No refund for rejection either.


 Not usually for parents. Definetly if he does not meet the health requirement. 

CO will inform you they do not believe he is dependent and give you the option to remove. If you choose to keep him on the application all rejected or you remove him and you and the wife get your visas. 

But if he meets dependency but not the health requirement all rejected, no option to remove. He may meet health requirement with high blood pressure depending on how it effects him, the reasons why he has it and possible future treatment needed.


----------



## cancerianlrules (Feb 6, 2014)

_shel said:


> Not usually for parents. Definetly if he does not meet the health requirement.
> 
> CO will inform you they do not believe he is dependent and give you the option to remove. If you choose to keep him on the application all rejected or you remove him and you and the wife get your visas.
> 
> But if he meets dependency but not the health requirement all rejected, no option to remove. He may meet health requirement with high blood pressure depending on how it effects him, the reasons why he has it and possible future treatment needed.


Just to add, your father would be required to complete medicals and pcc even if he is listed as non migrating dependant! 

If he fails any of the this, all rejected!


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## padmayogesh (Jan 14, 2014)

_shel said:


> Not usually for parents. Definetly if he does not meet the health requirement.
> 
> CO will inform you they do not believe he is dependent and give you the option to remove. If you choose to keep him on the application all rejected or you remove him and you and the wife get your visas.
> 
> But if he meets dependency but not the health requirement all rejected, no option to remove. He may meet health requirement with high blood pressure depending on how it effects him, the reasons why he has it and possible future treatment needed.


Thanks for clarifying it Shel and Cancerianrules.

He has visited Australia in 2012 to see my sister and since then there is no change in health. 

Just an info needed on PCC. Would the PCC reflect with the address on it. Or, if I have to go for PCC, do I need to change my address first.


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## _shel (Mar 2, 2014)

But health requirements for visiting are different to those for PR. All the visit medical is concerned with is TB etc, disease that can be passed on not treatment because they are not entitled to treatment as a visitor. 
PR medical is also concerned with cost of treatment that the person would be entitled to under medicare and possible welfare payments they would get.


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## padmayogesh (Jan 14, 2014)

_shel said:


> But health requirements for visiting are different to those for PR. All the visit medical is concerned with is TB etc, disease that can be passed on not treatment because they are not entitled to treatment as a visitor.
> PR medical is also concerned with cost of treatment that the person would be entitled to under medicare and possible welfare payments they would get.


One more last question.

In EOI I submitted, I entered as only 1 Family Member who would be included in my future application, keeping my wife's name in mind. Now, if I want to add my dad's name in main visa application can I do that?


----------



## lovetosmack (Apr 22, 2013)

padmayogesh said:


> One more last question.
> 
> In EOI I submitted, I entered as only 1 Family Member who would be included in my future application, keeping my wife's name in mind. Now, if I want to add my dad's name in main visa application can I do that?


Yes. You can add him. That shouldn't be a problem at all.


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## shingi700 (Aug 16, 2014)

*Dependents*

Hi

I intend to include a sibling not from my current partner, how will this impact on the visa processing time?
Is this a good idea to include the sibling now or later when permanent visa has been granted?
Thanks for your valuable help
Regards


Shingi


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## _shel (Mar 2, 2014)

Your child?


----------



## shingi700 (Aug 16, 2014)

*Dependent Child*

Hi Yes my daughter!
Cheers


----------



## _shel (Mar 2, 2014)

Your own child can always be added even if the other parent is not migrating. You will however need permission from the other parent or a Court Order giving you rights to remove your child from the country. 

Wont make any difference to processing. Childrens applications are always easier. Less needed with security and character checks. 

Cheaper to include them than pay $3000 later. They just need to visit Australia to validate the visa they then have 5 years to migrate permanently.


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## shingi700 (Aug 16, 2014)

Hi Shel
Thanks very much for the information and will seek the necessary documentation prior to submitting 189 visa application.
Thanks a lot
Regards


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## Mj5000 (Oct 8, 2014)

Hi Shel,

You are doing great work ! 

I have been staying together with my mom since birth. She is a widow with no income/no pensions. But we have an old flat jointly owned by myself and my mother. My sister is married.

Earlier we used to stay in old flat but from past 3 years, we are staying in new flat- owned by my wife. All our documents are with old address. Not being able to make any address proof for myself and mom in new address as it is my wife is owner.
How to prove that my mother is financially dependent on me and staying with me ?? 
Is it a problem to prove her dependency on me as she jointly owns a flat ? 
I am paying for my family's Mediclaim (health insurance) for last 7-8 years. It includes myself, wife and my mother. 

Thanks in advance..


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## Mj5000 (Oct 8, 2014)

*Adding Mother*

Hi guys,

I have been staying together with my mom since birth. She is a widow with no income/no pensions. But we have an old flat jointly owned by myself and my mother. My sister is married.

Earlier we used to stay in old flat but from past 3 years, we are staying in new flat- owned by my wife. All our documents are with old address. Not being able to make any address proof for myself and mom in new address as it is my wife is owner.
How to prove that my mother is financially dependent on me and staying with me ??
Is it a problem to prove her dependency on me as she jointly owns a flat ?
I am paying for my family's Mediclaim (health insurance) for last 7-8 years. It includes myself, wife and my mother.

Plz advice guys..
Thanks in advance..


----------



## lovetosmack (Apr 22, 2013)

Mj5000 said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> I have been staying together with my mom since birth. She is a widow with no income/no pensions. But we have an old flat jointly owned by myself and my mother. My sister is married.
> 
> ...


I do not suggest any work around here. You must try to get some alternative proof of address in the new flat. It could be anything like your Voter Card, Aadhaar, Gas Connection, Passports, Telephone Bill, Ration cards or anything. You can't afford to be lazy in these situations. We both know you can get a lot of address proofs with a little effort since you have been staying for the past 3 years. 

You can prove that your mother is financially dependent by:
- showing your dad's death certificate
- Mediclaim is a good option
- yours and your mother's bank statements for the past x years

Are you transferring any money to your mother's account?
Who buys monthly groceries, stuff for your house?


----------



## Mj5000 (Oct 8, 2014)

lovetosmack said:


> I do not suggest any work around here. You must try to get some alternative proof of address in the new flat. It could be anything like your Voter Card, Aadhaar, Gas Connection, Passports, Telephone Bill, Ration cards or anything. You can't afford to be lazy in these situations. We both know you can get a lot of address proofs with a little effort since you have been staying for the past 3 years.
> 
> You can prove that your mother is financially dependent by:
> - showing your dad's death certificate
> ...


Thanks lovetosmack for your reply.

My mother doesn't has any bank account. But i am trying to get one opened this week with new address. Will just opened acount help ?
I have a bank account with old address and getting a new one opened with new address.. Hope it helps..
Monthly groceries and other basic stuffs are bought in cash by my wife/mom


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## Indigirl (Jul 26, 2014)

*Grant!*

Hello All,

I would like to inform you all that I have received my grant few hours ago!

My heartfelt thanks to 'Lovetosmack' for redirecting me to user 'Gurdjieff'. I owe the entire credit to him!

I also would like to thank 'ashish1137'...It gave me immense relief when he got the grant for his dependent mother with INR 20K pension. 

I have prayed for all those who added their dependent parent. Each and every such success story here motivated me to proceed without an agent and add my mom. 

Thank you once again for everything and keep up the good work!! 

I have updated my signature also. Please let me know if I can be of any help!

Thanks
Indigirl


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## lovetosmack (Apr 22, 2013)

Indigirl said:


> Hello All,
> 
> I would like to inform you all that I have received my grant few hours ago!
> 
> ...


Gives me a great feeling to see one more person on this thread to get the visa.


----------



## Indigirl (Jul 26, 2014)

It surely is!!


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## ehsanonline (Jul 3, 2014)

Dear All 

I would like to express my gratitude for this forum & amazing members (Lovetosmack) & Moderators (shell & all) here .. 

Got my grant for 489 for Myself, Mrs, Daughter & Dad on 2nd Dec 2014.


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## AnanthProxy (Jan 14, 2015)

Anyone else got the PR with Mom or Father as a dependent recently? I have applied including my Mom in the application. The only difference is she is already here in AU part of my 457 work visa for the past more than 18 months.


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## cyberkidpk (Sep 9, 2013)

*query*

Hi all

I already have the grant and did Initial entry , will most probably move by end of this year.
My brother already have his 190 invite , now the issue is adding our mother as dependent.

1. She is windowed since 2003. We have the death certificate.
2. My brother is the only one living with her as I had left around 2 years back and hold Aus PR.
3. She had been living in a apartment rented in my name but my brother paid the rent (we have the slips)
4. Last year, we bought an apartment but it is named after my mother
5. She is 59 years old and working as a teacher in a private organization means no pension when she retires (Which is when she turns 60 i.e. next year in March)
6. Even with her salary, she only pays her medical bills. All the other bills(telephone, electricity,water, property tax ect) are being paid through my brother's account. This is because her salary is not just 40% of the monthly household expenses. 


Does all above qualifies her to be a dependent ?


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## _shel (Mar 2, 2014)

Were you for some reason unable to read the thread before posting in it?


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## cyberkidpk (Sep 9, 2013)

I did read it, although I got the idea that as per immigration law she is not a dependent, but then I see couple of people who get their grants along with dependents.

Will a letter from her school saying that she is not eligible for pension and about to retire, help the case?

As for the apartment, I paid 80% of it and it is in her name as I can not make it to the country to finalize the deal(in Pakistan , you need to appear before land authority to verify biometrics before ownership is transferred).
The transfer of payment can be proved via bank statements, as I transferred from UAE to her bank account.


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## _shel (Mar 2, 2014)

Yes because they qualified, your mother does not. She works and has her own income. Doesn't matter how much money you give her if she is employed.


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## cyberkidpk (Sep 9, 2013)

Ok well noted Shell, 
The dependency exist as she can not live in the salary she is earning alone, the medical care and clothing alone eats up her salary. All the utilities bills,property tax, her transportation, her visit to me (air tickets etc) are paid by my brother.

So she is substantially dependent on him. We have hired 02 maids to help her in household , also paid by my brother.

I will see an agent over the weekend. Thanks Shel


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## Scattley (Jul 30, 2012)

She still cannot be added while she is working and owning a property (Australian immigration only cares about what is legal and as you said she legally owns it). There is nothing stopping you or your brother sending her money. Financially she is semi dependant perhaps but immigration only cares about 100% dependant. She can and does work.

Once you have lived in Australia for 2 years you can go down the contributory visa by selling the house you have (as the cost is 60kish), but adding her as a dependant on your brothers application is not going to work.....and as a 190 is an all or nothing visa, your brother risks loosing his visa by putting her on.


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## skksundar (Apr 29, 2014)

All,

Thank you very much for the wonderful support I received, got OUR Grant Yesterday Morning.
Its just the beginning.

Aspirants,
Wishing you all the very best and good luck with the process.


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## samy25 (Oct 31, 2012)

can we apply for our brother under 18 after getting PR?? he is school going but my parents are alive. though we used to pay his fees and manage all his stuff. so if my parents are alive still can i bring him on dependent visa?


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## AnanthProxy (Jan 14, 2015)

AnanthProxy said:


> Anyone else got the PR with Mom or Father as a dependent recently? I have applied including my Mom in the application. The only difference is she is already here in AU part of my 457 work visa for the past more than 18 months.


Got my grant today that includes my mother. No much hassles thank God.


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## it_guy (Jul 21, 2014)

My mum and dad live in the same home in India as I used to. I m currently in Australia on 457 filling my PR under 189. My dad is retired and draws pension for his expenses. I support them financially for a comfortable living, however they can meet their expenses with my dad's pension. 
I will not be including them in a future application for migration. Do I need to show them as ky dependents?


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## TeamRanger (Jul 8, 2014)

it_guy said:


> My mum and dad live in the same home in India as I used to. I m currently in Australia on 457 filling my PR under 189. My dad is retired and draws pension for his expenses. I support them financially for a comfortable living, however they can meet their expenses with my dad's pension. I will not be including them in a future application for migration. Do I need to show them as ky dependents?


Nope since they are not fully dependent on you.


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## Scattley (Jul 30, 2012)

samy25 said:


> can we apply for our brother under 18 after getting PR?? he is school going but my parents are alive. though we used to pay his fees and manage all his stuff. so if my parents are alive still can i bring him on dependent visa?


Your parents are alive so your brother is their dependant not yours. You cannot add him to your application. There is nothing stopping you from supporting him financially though from Australia.


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## Syed_1995 (Sep 30, 2014)

My elder sister is applying for permanent visa 189 on dentist occupation she support me in every thing financially , can she add me in her visa application , i am 20 years old uni student , my parents are alive but they don't work , my father was government employ but where he worked there was not much need of employs so he got some money and lost his job now not even getting pension , they are even dependent on my sis , we live in same house , and it can be proved easily as we have same home address on nationality card and other docs , i have an other elder bro who work and earn good , do i need to do ielt test ??


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## TeamRanger (Jul 8, 2014)

Syed_1995 said:


> My elder sister is applying for permanent visa 189 on dentist occupation she support me in every thing financially , can she add me in her visa application , i am 20 years old uni student , my parents are alive but they don't work , my father was government employ but where he worked there was not much need of employs so he got some money and lost his job now not even getting pension , they are even dependent on my sis , we live in same house , and it can be proved easily as we have same home address on nationality card and other docs , i have an other elder bro who work and earn good , do i need to do ielt test ??


Getting to add siblings as dependents when both parents are alive is difficult.

Edit: Wrong reply thread earlier.


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## Syed_1995 (Sep 30, 2014)

TeamRanger said:


> Getting to add siblings as dependents when both parents are alive is difficult.
> 
> Edit: Wrong reply thread earlier.


Thanks for the reply mate , is there any other way or it is impossible ?? and what about dependents ielt test ???


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## TeamRanger (Jul 8, 2014)

Syed_1995 said:


> Thanks for the reply mate , is there any other way or it is impossible ?? and what about dependents ielt test ???


You may have to search forum for other instances, do not stop at what I suggested here. 

Every dependent above 18 should provide proof of functional English, which includes IELTS score of minimum 4.5 in each of the bands or a letter from university or college certifying that dependent had completed the education with English as medium of instruction. 

More details here. 

http://www.immi.gov.au/faqs/Pages/how-can-i-prove-i-have-functional-english.aspx


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## Syed_1995 (Sep 30, 2014)

TeamRanger said:


> You may have to search forum for other instances, do not stop at what I suggested here.
> 
> Every dependent above 18 should provide proof of functional English, which includes IELTS score of minimum 4.5 in each of the bands or a letter from university or college certifying that dependent had completed the education with English as medium of instruction.
> 
> ...


ay thanks...............


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## Worldcup2015 (Feb 16, 2015)

*Personal Question - Dependent visa for my mother(single parent)*

Hello,

I am looking for some particular information for dependent visa for my mother. 

I am B.Tech in CSE with 7 years of experience in IT. I am trying under Australia visa type 189 including my partner (IT professional) and mother (House wife, age 62 years) . 

My father got expire recently in the month of Jan -2015, and my mother is living with me. I have three sisters who are married but No brother.

Also, I have no old proof for financial dependency. But I am sending some monthly from afew months.

I am not sure about the possibilities of my mothers dependent visa. Could you please guide me on this?

Q1. Should I apply for my mother's dependent visa?
Q2. My mother has not cleared IETLS, do I need to submit any proof or fees instead of IELTS.
Q3. Since my father expired recently in Jan-2105, so what all documents I can submit under financial dependancy?
Q4. In case, if I apply for my mother's dependancy visa, then will it affect my visa application in any sense?

Kindly guide me as my invitation period is expiring soon.

Thanks,
WC


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## Worldcup2015 (Feb 16, 2015)

I think I should have put more information, actually I hadn't planned her visa but before applying EOI, my father expired. 
1. My father was retired Army personal and was getting pension. I didn't apply for mothers pension, considering my visa application case. My mother is house wife and has no income source. I didn't transfer money in her account before but now from last two months I have started it.

2. I am living with my mother from last 2 years, I bought the house and paying EMI. My father and me (co applicant) had taken the loan but I am only paying it.

3. I pay for her telephone bill from freerecharge but its prepaid so how can I get the proof of paying for my mother??

4. I pay for train tickets but how I can get the proof that I am paying it. Although I use net banking but how to extract the proof for specific transaction??

5. I pay medical bills but that too in cash. how to make proof out of it?

----------
6. My mother is a patient of blood pressure and Asthama, does it medically positive or negative??
----------

7. If I apply with my mother and the case is rejected with main applicant, then can I apply again or I can't apply after first rejection?

Thanks,
WC


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## OnaMisssion (Dec 13, 2014)

Dear all

I am thinking of including my mother in my 189 visa application (EOI). 

1. my mother resides with me in the same address back in India. However, I have been living in sydney on 457 for the past 1.5 years and she lives in india. Will this affect her from getting visa. (Past 12 months different address).

2. my mother got retired in 2010, but she is getting a retirement amount of 5k every month with a decent retirement settlement amount in her account. will this again affect her from getting visa citing that she has an income and a bank balance?

3. She has got high bp but it is under control with the help of medications. She has got high cholesterol level and she has been taking mediications to bring it down. She has got seasonal wheezing problems (asthma) which comes out in winter only. Will this prevent her from satisying medical requirements?

Your answers would be very helpful.

Thanks


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## thumblina (May 28, 2015)

*How to prove my younger siblings are dependent on me?*

Can you please guide me on urgent basis as I want to apply for skill independent 189. I have two younger brothers and one sister substantially dependent on me. Although my father is earning and me too but we both share our earnings for a good living. Please guide me which documents are required to prove that my brothers and sisters are dependent on me? can i add them as dependent or not


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## Scattley (Jul 30, 2012)

thumblina said:


> Can you please guide me on urgent basis as I want to apply for skill independent 189. I have two younger brothers and one sister substantially dependent on me. Although my father is earning and me too but we both share our earnings for a good living. Please guide me which documents are required to prove that my brothers and sisters are dependent on me? can i add them as dependent or not


They are not as your father is alive and also supporting them. There is nothing stopping you from continuing to send money to them when you are in Australia but from your description they don't qualify as dependants for immigration purposes.


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## thumblina (May 28, 2015)

*How to prove my younger siblings are dependent on me?*

Thanks Scattley
but even i cannot add my younger sister in dependent because she is fully dependent on me


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## tanrent (Aug 22, 2015)

Hey guys, can you please give me some advice ? I'm planning to apply for visa 189 and I want to add my mother as dependent family member as well. 
My mother is 60 years old, she hasn't worked for a few years and does not have any income now. my father passed away 10 years ago, and my mother has not been in any relationship ever since, so obviously she is totally dependent on me. I've been living with her in her house for 9 months or so, before that I was studying Australia and she was living in that house alone. 
And my questions are: 

1) What kind of documents that I have to get to prove my mother does not have income (considering this thing is quite hard to prove in my country) ?

2) Do I need to provide evidence of my income to prove that I pay for her living cost? Because even though I do pay for her bills but all by cash with her name on the bills. There is no way to prove that I'm the one who pay them.

3) Do you think 9 months living together is sufficient enough, instead of the minimum requirement of 12 months?

4) My only other sister is living in Australia as a TR? Does it gonna negatively affect my case?

5) And the house is on my mother's name, again does it cause any complications ?

6) Just one more thing, during the time I was studying in Australia, I wrote an invitation for her to visit me. But they refused her visitor visa. Does it gonna negatively affect my case?

And finally, she is completely healthy, so no health problems.

Please give me some advice guys !


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## cancerianlrules (Feb 6, 2014)

tanrent said:


> Hey guys, can you please give me some advice ? I'm planning to apply for visa 189 and I want to add my mother as dependent family member as well.
> My mother is 60 years old, she hasn't worked for a few years and does not have any income now. my father passed away 10 years ago, and my mother has not been in any relationship ever since, so obviously she is totally dependent on me. I've been living with her in her house for 9 months or so, before that I was studying Australia and she was living in that house alone.
> And my questions are:


This is not obvious in Australia! Parents, irrespective of their age/marital status, are not dependent on their children in Australian culture. Hence, you have to provide evidence to convince the Immigration Authorities of Australia that she is your dependent.


1) What kind of documents that I have to get to prove my mother does not have income (considering this thing is quite hard to prove in my country) ?

A bank account with no regular flow of income, may be an option. Filing income tax returns - to say no income is another thing.

2) Do I need to provide evidence of my income to prove that I pay for her living cost? Because even though I do pay for her bills but all by cash with her name on the bills. There is no way to prove that I'm the one who pay them.

You will have to establish some document proof, dig a bit deeper. Health insurance policy/life insurance, regular phone bills, etc. When you pay your utility bills they should provide receipt, even when paid in cash.

3) Do you think 9 months living together is sufficient enough, instead of the minimum requirement of 12 months?

There is no right answer. If your dependency proof is substantial enough, comes down to the discretion of the case officer. In most cases you need atleast 1 year dependency proofs.

4) My only other sister is living in Australia as a TR? Does it gonna negatively affect my case?

No negative impact if you can substantiate your claims on dependency.

5) And the house is on my mother's name, again does it cause any complications ?

Possibly.

6) Just one more thing, during the time I was studying in Australia, I wrote an invitation for her to visit me. But they refused her visitor visa. Does it gonna negatively affect my case?

I would not have thought so, but it really doesn't matter what I think.
And finally, she is completely healthy, so no health problems.

Great!

Please give me some advice guys ![/QUOTE]


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## nitinmoudgil (May 21, 2014)

CO asked form 80 and form 47a for mom and me...
and also asked for english literacy fees...
cn i expect that CO as assessed my case.. and is convince that dependency proofs are fine ???

We are sending form and asking for payment link today.


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## christine2039 (Jul 29, 2015)

Hi Seniors, 
Need help and advise.
My mother (67) is living with me from the last 2.5 years.
She is a single parent and does not have any income source (pension etc)
Since she stays with me I take care of all her requirements.
The mobile used by her is on my name, her and mine passport (hers is 2 months old) is of the same address and we have a joint account in the bank, which i use for all my transactions. 
I have filed for visa and shown her as dependant, her language certificate has been uploaded and her medical is clear.


Now the concern is, how do I prove that she is dependant on me to the CO??

Please help and advise


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## cancerianlrules (Feb 6, 2014)

christine2039 said:


> Hi Seniors,
> Need help and advise.
> My mother (67) is living with me from the last 2.5 years.
> She is a single parent and does not have any income source (pension etc)
> ...


Hey,

If your mother has been living with you, you must have something! Try to find old letters, some invoices, etc on her name.


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## christine2039 (Jul 29, 2015)

cancerianlrules said:


> Hey,
> 
> If your mother has been living with you, you must have something! Try to find old letters, some invoices, etc on her name.


Hi,
That's the challenge, when she moved she did not have any address proof for my address, so I got her mobile connection on my name, Her bank account is a joint account with me and our current address, recently I have got her passport made with our current address ( 2 months old) and I do have the company medical insurances that have her under my company name as my dependant.
Her bank account is primarily used by me , so it will have some deposit / withdrawal of some major amounts as we keep all FD's in this account.
Please advise how can I prove she is dependent on me or will these all suffice.


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## tulipd2h (Sep 9, 2015)

Can everyone can help me about including other family members in my application? I'm confused to know my mother-in-law can be included in my application. With her case is as follows:

- She is single (my father-in-law was widowed). She has only a child, who is my husband. 

- She was retired to work in December 2013 but she hasn't have a retirement pension. I've worked in Australia and then I've sent money to her for living cost in Vietnam so she has been wholly reliant on my financial support for her basic living needs since January 2014. It means she has relied on me for at least the 12 months immediately before I lodge my application. Can I provide a certificate about my financial support for her basic living from the local Service of Justice?

- She and my husband are in a Household Registration Book from my husband was born until now in Vietnam. I lived with her in a household from September 2012 to December 2013. I and my husband have gone to Australia since 18 December 2014 so she and my husband haven't lived together from 18 December 2014 until now. Thus, can my mother-in-law pass an requirement "they usually live with you" and be included in my application?

Please help me, thanks.


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## Maggie-May24 (May 19, 2015)

Tulipd2h, what visa are you applying for? 

"A family member can be your parent, brother, sister, grandparent, grandchild, aunt, uncle, niece, nephew or step equivalent."

Your husband can include his mother in his application, however you cannot include a mother-in-law in yours. If your husband isn't applying for a visa (i.e. if he already has a PR visa), then he'd need to sponsor his mother on a parent visa such as Contributory Parent Visa.


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## tulipd2h (Sep 9, 2015)

Maggie-May24 said:


> Tulipd2h, what visa are you applying for?
> 
> "A family member can be your parent, brother, sister, grandparent, grandchild, aunt, uncle, niece, nephew or step equivalent."
> 
> Your husband can include his mother in his application, however you cannot include a mother-in-law in yours. If your husband isn't applying for a visa (i.e. if he already has a PR visa), then he'd need to sponsor his mother on a parent visa such as Contributory Parent Visa.


Thanks Maggie-May24,

I'm applying for Skilled Nominated visa (subclass 190) and my husband includes in my application.


----------



## tulipd2h (Sep 9, 2015)

Maggie-May24 said:


> Tulipd2h, what visa are you applying for?
> 
> "A family member can be your parent, brother, sister, grandparent, grandchild, aunt, uncle, niece, nephew or step equivalent."
> 
> Your husband can include his mother in his application, however you cannot include a mother-in-law in yours. If your husband isn't applying for a visa (i.e. if he already has a PR visa), then he'd need to sponsor his mother on a parent visa such as Contributory Parent Visa.


Thanks Maggie-May24,

I'm applying for Skilled Nominated visa (subclass 190). I'm going to include my husband and my mother-in-law in my application. So with your saying, I can't include my mother-in-law in my application. I've thought I could.


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## knvkiran (Oct 7, 2015)

Hi Christine2039,

Mine is the same case as yours. Please share if you have any update regarding the documents required to prove the Dependency. I am currently in Brisbane on 457 and planning to bring my Single Mother(Father passed away 8 yrs ago, no siblings for me). I understand that I can include my mother along with My wife and Kid (plz correct, if I am wrong). My mother always had been a house wife and we lived together. We share the same address in our Aadhar, her Passport (2yrs old) and Bank accounts. She doesn't have any regular income (pension), but has few FD's on her name. I also included in my company medical insurance plan as a dependent and paying her premiums. Are these good enough. Do I need to notarize any of these documents ?. Please suggest.

Thanks & Regards,
Kiran


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## christine2039 (Jul 29, 2015)

Hi Kiran,

From what I understand, if our parents are not living with us from the last 12 months then we can not show them as our dependants, But again I May be wrong.

In my case i have uploaded the medicals (coloured copies did not get then notarized), form 47a,joint account, bank statement for 1 year, a self declaration on stamp paper and got it notarized, adhaar card, for english, i uploaded her post graduation marksheet.

i have not heard from my Co after these have been submitted so.. keeping my fingers crossed, they work.

All the best!




knvkiran said:


> Hi Christine2039,
> 
> Mine is the same case as yours. Please share if you have any update regarding the documents required to prove the Dependency. I am currently in Brisbane on 457 and planning to bring my Single Mother(Father passed away 8 yrs ago, no siblings for me). I understand that I can include my mother along with My wife and Kid (plz correct, if I am wrong). My mother always had been a house wife and we lived together. We share the same address in our Aadhar, her Passport (2yrs old) and Bank accounts. She doesn't have any regular income (pension), but has few FD's on her name. I also included in my company medical insurance plan as a dependent and paying her premiums. Are these good enough. Do I need to notarize any of these documents ?. Please suggest.
> 
> ...


----------



## knvkiran (Oct 7, 2015)

Hi Christine,
Thanks for your reply. one more, Is English qualification also applicable for parent dependent visa applicants? 

Thanks & Regards,
Kiran


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## tumupd (Sep 20, 2015)

*Mother as Dependent*

Hi all pls help me as am also planning to add my mother to my 189 visa.
She is around 58 and widowed.She is suffering from BP and Artheritis 
I can prove that she stays wit me by providin rental agreements from 2013 to till date.
and medical bills as well.

I have 1 elder brother but he doesnt stay wit us.

So will this be enough for her to get visa.

There are no bank statements as she stays wit me and also no income as she was housewife frm begining.
Please suggest how i need to proceed.

Thanks


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## tumupd (Sep 20, 2015)

Hi all,pls suggest if i can add my mother to my 189 visa.I lost my Father almost 8 years back in 2007.We live in our own house and it is still in my fathers name in my native .I have an elder bro who is married and lives separately in same city . From 2011 to 2012 i was in uk on account of work .From 2013 my mother started staying wit me in Bangalore where i rented an apartment.I have rental documents as a proof and also i have medical bills that can prove that she is dependent on me.She was homemaker right from beginning so income for her.Please suggest if i can go ahead and add her to my 189 visa.Waiting for our resposne.


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## skksundar (Apr 29, 2014)

tumupd said:


> Hi all,pls suggest if i can add my mother to my 189 visa.I lost my Father almost 8 years back in 2007.We live in our own house and it is still in my fathers name in my native .I have an elder bro who is married and lives separately in same city . From 2011 to 2012 i was in uk on account of work .From 2013 my mother started staying wit me in Bangalore where i rented an apartment.I have rental documents as a proof and also i have medical bills that can prove that she is dependent on me.She was homemaker right from beginning so income for her.Please suggest if i can go ahead and add her to my 189 visa.Waiting for our resposne.


Hi tumupd,
Good that your mother is staying with you.

Collect the following items

1. Health insurance you have availed for her and for which you have paid. This could be from your office in which case it will be the premium amount would have been deducted from your pay.
2. The transport tickets like train, bus tickets you have paid for.
3. Mobile recharge receipts for your mothers's number, you have paid.
4. Get the ration card if any, translated in English.
5. Your mom and dad's marriage certificate or family heirship certificate to prove she's your father's wife.
6. Your bank account statement and your mother's bank account statement.

If there's anything else, collect them as well. For me, the above ones came handy when I applied and proved my mother's dependency.

Remember, every item is very important and but it's not obviously requested by the immigration team! It's your responsibility to think about such documents and provide them!!

I would suggest you go ahead and add your mother as dependent and furnish the details above.

When I applied, I also had such dilemma and heard of the option of making mother a non migrating dependent in case I can't prove her dependency.

All the very best!


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## tumupd (Sep 20, 2015)

Thank you skksundar for your response.Just 1 more Question if she doesn't have any functional english certificate so is it like we need to pay $4800 AUD along wit our 3600 AUD?


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## skksundar (Apr 29, 2014)

tumupd said:


> Thank you skksundar for your response.Just 1 more Question if she doesn't have any functional english certificate so is it like we need to pay $4800 AUD along wit our 3600 AUD?


Yeah, you need to pay the language fees in case you can't prove your mother's functional English!!


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## jsbhatia (Mar 17, 2015)

Hi all,
I need some advice

I have files EOI on 30th May 2015 and hoping to get invite in November. Currently in my EOI I have only mentioned my wife and kids and not mentioned my mother(70 yrs.) as dependent.
My father passed away 3 years ago. Our house in delhi is in the name of my mother and we live together. I however transfer Rs 15000 showing it as rent every month to my mother for past 2 years. I pay all the bills in the house. My mother also gets pension from her old job. She is not financially depended upon me but its very difficult for me to leave her alone. What are my options for taking her with me. Can I include her in my application?


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## tumupd (Sep 20, 2015)

Thank you very much skksundar for ur guidence and apologies for late response.


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## DevDev (Aug 19, 2015)

All, 

I have read discussions here and my story is not different. I am only son of my widowed mother. My two sisters are married. One is in India and other is settled in the UK. 
I am in a dilemma whether to include my mother in my 190-VIC application. My mother's age is 65 years. I have another 1 month left to submit response to EOI invitation. 

My father passed away in 2009. Since that time, my mother is staying with me at my residence in Pune. From 2009 onwards, I am travelling alone outside without my family to ensure my mom stays with my family. My wife and kids stay back in India with my mother in India. When I was in malaysia for 5 months, my family including my mother traveled to Malaysia for 3-4 months. My mother stayed there 2 months and then returned back alone due to visitor visa restrictions. 
1. Her new passport was issued on my home address in July 2011. 
2. I am paying for her medical insurance for last 4-5 years. 
3. We have one joint bank account at my address. Its not Government bank though. 
4. She has changed address of one of her bank accounts to my address few years back(Federal bank) 
5. She gets considerable pension(INR 45,000- Rs.9000 her own pension and Rs. 35000 my father's pension as a family pension after him) a month. 
6. Her other bank accounts and identity cards are registered on my Father's address(where no one stays currently). 
7. All utility bills(including her postpaid mobile) are on my name. 

8. I got her visa medicals(for 190) done separately without linking to my 190. We declared that she does have little high Blood pressure and listed medicines she is taking. Her BP was registered as 140/85-90. However as Doctor noticed that her right hand fingers muscles are strained and she is not able to use her right hand(writing etc) efficiently, he told that he will upload medicals with noted history. If there is any instructions, we need to see neurologist and take a letter from him for her right hand. We waited for 4-5 days, but nothing has come back. We are not sure if they will scan and ask any additional tests now itself as for this medical, there was no visa application submitted. 

I know this is little lengthy description, but I would appreciate if seniors/experts can guide me considering specific points listed. 

Thanks, 
Dev


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## jsbhatia (Mar 17, 2015)

Our stories are very similar. Since I did not get any response from my query, I did not include my mother in visa application. Since she is not financially dependent on me because of pension. Even the house we are living in is in my parents name.

Have you included your mother in your visa application?



DevDev said:


> All,
> 
> I have read discussions here and my story is not different. I am only son of my widowed mother. My two sisters are married. One is in India and other is settled in the UK.
> I am in a dilemma whether to include my mother in my 190-VIC application. My mother's age is 65 years. I have another 1 month left to submit response to EOI invitation.
> ...


----------



## DevDev (Aug 19, 2015)

jsbhatia said:


> Our stories are very similar. Since I did not get any response from my query, I did not include my mother in visa application. Since she is not financially dependent on me because of pension. Even the house we are living in is in my parents name.
> 
> Have you included your mother in your visa application?


Hi, 

I got invite for EOI, but I have not yet submitted response as I was doing medicals for my mother and waiting for some expert advice. 

Thanks, 
Dev.


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## DevDev (Aug 19, 2015)

DevDev said:


> All,
> 
> I have read discussions here and my story is not different. I am only son of my widowed mother. My two sisters are married. One is in India and other is settled in the UK.
> I am in a dilemma whether to include my mother in my 190-VIC application. My mother's age is 65 years. I have another 1 month left to submit response to EOI invitation.
> ...


If anyone knows, can you please let me know - if I add my mother in my 190 visa application and if her visa is not deemed to be approved by CO, will I get an opportunity to remove her from application instead of rejection. I will not mind loosing AUD 1800-1900 paid for her. 
OR entire visa for all applicants including main applicant(me) is rejected in that case? 

In case, her application is rejected/removed from 190, will there be any issue in processing her long term visitor visa (600) later?


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## Maggie-May24 (May 19, 2015)

DevDev said:


> If anyone knows, can you please let me know - if I add my mother in my 190 visa application and if her visa is not deemed to be approved by CO, will I get an opportunity to remove her from application instead of rejection. I will not mind loosing AUD 1800-1900 paid for her.
> OR entire visa for all applicants including main applicant(me) is rejected in that case?
> 
> In case, her application is rejected/removed from 190, will there be any issue in processing her long term visitor visa (600) later?


If she is found to be not dependent, you will be given the change to remove her from your application before it is finalised. 

If she is found to be dependent but fails the health check, then your application will be refused. It's a "one fail = all fail" rule when it comes to the health check.


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## NiksG (Oct 7, 2015)

I have a query regarding including my mother in 189 Visa
Few data points :
1) My father passed away in 2003 and since then, she has been living with me. Passport address of mine & my mother is same for last 12 + years
2) She is a housewife and doesn't have any pension, salary or any other kind of income. She is financially dependent on me. I can produce statements of joint bank account, payment of insurance policy by me etc.
3) Her age is 60 years. She has been housewife right from beginning without any income. I have another sister who is married for last 11 years and lives 250 KM's away from where I live
4) She doesn't have functional english. Will try PTE, else I'm willing to pay second installment of Visa cost

Now Queries :
1) Can someone help me with list of documents which will strengthen her case
2) In case CO finds her not dependent on me (due to whatever reason), he'll give me a chance to remove her from my application, or it'll be rejected for all of us. My spouse and 2 kids will also be applying as dependent
3) I understand that if her medical get's rejected, my application will also get rejected. She is suffering from High BP and Diabetes only. No problem like TB, HIV or Heart Disease etc.
4) Does including her in the application reduced chances of my grant in any way ??
5) Should I apply through a registered MARA agent, or apply on my own. My ACS, PTE etc. everything is through & I am eligible for 65 points, so hoping to get invite soon
6) I've moved to a new house in May,2015. All ID proof are of old address including the passport for all of us. PCC will happen at the new address. Should I get new passport for all of us including my mother before submitting the EOI ?? Will it have any kind of impact ??


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## stigmatized (Jul 29, 2015)

Hi NiksG,

I would recommend you to take the chance of applying for your mother as a dependent. Although it is difficult, yet its worth taking a risk. My opinion regarding your queries:
1- You have to fulfill 3 conditions to show that your mother is dependent upon you:
i) Your mother is a widow ( Attach fathers death certificate)
ii) Your mother is financially dependent upon you for at least last 12 months (Attach bank account statement showing you are transferring money to her account)
iii) She has been living with you for most of the time during last 12 months (Attach National ID or Passport showing that you and your mother has same residential address)
2- In case CO thinks that she is not dependent upon you, you can withdraw the application at any point (Except if there is a medical reason, if one fails, all will fail)
3- Diabetes and BP is not an issue. She has to go through blood test, eyesight test, urine analysis.
4- Including her in you application will not reduce your chances. However the processing time will be increased, so you have to be patient with it.
5- You don't need to spend money on agents. Just apply yourself as you can defend your case easily. No one else can do it better than you.
6- I think you can take a chance of applying with the current documents. If CO is not satisfied, he will surely give you proper time for arranging documents.

Last thing, the other visa types, visit, etc are a big time hassle. So better apply for your mother too. I am saying this because I recently got grant for my father and my case was quite similar to yours. Best of luck!!


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## msbh (Jan 1, 2016)

Hey all, I am newbie and gathering information,

I wanted to know if i am adding my mother as dependent , so it is must for her to appear in ielts test?

Thanks


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## Maggie-May24 (May 19, 2015)

msbh said:


> Hey all, I am newbie and gathering information,
> 
> I wanted to know if i am adding my mother as dependent , so it is must for her to appear in ielts test?
> 
> Thanks


No, it's not mandatory, but if she doesn't have evidence of functional English then you must pay the secondary applicant fee which is $4,885.


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## doublecheeseburger (Dec 31, 2013)

Hi there,

I have applied for Australian PR and have included my mother as a dependent.
I am in U.S.A. for last 8 years. I did my masters here and now working on H1B. My mother visits me very often. 
My mother is widowed aged 62 and does not work. I do regularly send money to her for her living expenses.
She is M.A. in Economics and also has a B.Ed. degree.
My only sibling is my elder brother who already has Australian PR and is living there for last 4 years.
I have few queries regarding this:
1. What can I show for English language capabilities for my mother. I want to avoid IELTS as given her age it been many years she has sat for an exam.
2. While filling my application form it did not ask about my brother details. Only thing that was asked was "Non-dependent relatives not migrating to or living in australia". When will the department ask about the details of my brother?

Please let me know of your thoughts.

Thanks,


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## xsimio (Nov 26, 2015)

1) You do not need to go for IELTS for your mom, you can choose to pay for the training course once she is in Australia. I think it is a 6 months training. It is the same option as for partners. Everyone does the exam as it is A LOT cheaper.


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## msbh (Jan 1, 2016)

Thanks Maggie amd xsimio.

Should i do ielts exams first then put the application on acs website?


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## NiksG (Oct 7, 2015)

stigmatized said:


> Hi NiksG,
> 
> I would recommend you to take the chance of applying for your mother as a dependent. Although it is difficult, yet its worth taking a risk. My opinion regarding your queries:
> 1- You have to fulfill 3 conditions to show that your mother is dependent upon you:
> ...


Hi Stigmatized

Thx for your reply. Only issue which I foresee here is that I don't transfer money to her account regularly. As she has been living with me, I pay for all of her expenses & in cash. I can produce few things like Health insurance premium paid by me, her mobile bill on my name etc.

I do have a joint account with her where I'm the primary account holder and I keep on transferring money to that account regularly.

Any other documents which you can suggest to prove financial dependency.
I was thinking about adding an affidavit which states that she doesn't get any pension or salary from anywhere & I pay for all her bills etc.

Was your case almost similar & you got the PR for your dad ?? When did you applied & when did you got the PR ?? Did CO asked for any specific documents ??

Pls guide.


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## doublecheeseburger (Dec 31, 2013)

Hi, 
I still have a few questions about including my mom as a dependent in the application.

1) While filling my application form it did not ask about my brother details. Only thing that was asked was "Non-dependent relatives not migrating to or living in australia". When will the department ask about the details of my brother?
2) I don't send her money regularly but when I do it's sufficient for a few months , so whats the criteria for the CO to decide whether she is dependent on me or not ?

3) Out of curiousity, how do the CO know if any dependent mentioned in the application is not working ?
Do they ask for some proof to show that the dependent is not working ?

Please let me know of the answers to these questions.

Thanks,


----------



## dedm (Nov 4, 2015)

I have a 38 year old brother who is schiziophrenia patient and I have included him in on my visa application.


----------



## doublecheeseburger (Dec 31, 2013)

Hi, 
I still have a few questions about including my mom as a dependent in the application.

1) While filling my application form it did not ask about my brother details. Only thing that was asked was "Non-dependent relatives not migrating to or living in australia". When will the department ask about the details of my brother?
2) I don't send her money regularly but when I do it's sufficient for a few months , so whats the criteria for the CO to decide whether she is dependent on me or not ?

3) Out of curiousity, how do the CO know if any dependent mentioned in the application is not working ?
Do they ask for some proof to show that the dependent is not working ?

Please let me know of the answers to these questions.

Thanks,


----------



## OzIT (Oct 9, 2012)

My Australian visa application is done until the Police Clearance Checks and the health screening is the only one left. I have got state sponsorship from Southern Australia. The visa application is for myself, wife and kid.

I would like to know whether I can remove my wife and kid from this application, at the moment? Will it affect my application in any manner? My wife and kid wanted to remain in India and are not ready to come down for the medical check ups, which put me in this scenario.

Thank you in advance!


----------



## dedm (Nov 4, 2015)

OzIT said:


> My Australian visa application is done until the Police Clearance Checks and the health screening is the only one left. I have got state sponsorship from Southern Australia. The visa application is for myself, wife and kid.
> 
> I would like to know whether I can remove my wife and kid from this application, at the moment? Will it affect my application in any manner? My wife and kid wanted to remain in India and are not ready to come down for the medical check ups, which put me in this scenario.
> 
> Thank you in advance!


Talk to her nicely after a few days and try again


----------



## Maggie-May24 (May 19, 2015)

OzIT said:


> My Australian visa application is done until the Police Clearance Checks and the health screening is the only one left. I have got state sponsorship from Southern Australia. The visa application is for myself, wife and kid.
> 
> I would like to know whether I can remove my wife and kid from this application, at the moment? Will it affect my application in any manner? My wife and kid wanted to remain in India and are not ready to come down for the medical check ups, which put me in this scenario.
> 
> Thank you in advance!


No, you cannot remove them from the application. The most you can do is show them as non-migrating dependents (they don't get a visa) but they are still required to complete the health checks.


----------



## doublecheeseburger (Dec 31, 2013)

Still looking for answers , please help guys

Hi, 
I still have a few questions about including my mom as a dependent in the application.

1) While filling my application form it did not ask about my brother details. Only thing that was asked was "Non-dependent relatives not migrating to or living in australia". When will the department ask about the details of my brother?
2) I don't send her money regularly but when I do it's sufficient for a few months , so whats the criteria for the CO to decide whether she is dependent on me or not ?

3) Out of curiousity, how do the CO know if any dependent mentioned in the application is not working ?
Do they ask for some proof to show that the dependent is not working ?

Please let me know of the answers to these questions.

Thanks,


----------



## Maggie-May24 (May 19, 2015)

doublecheeseburger said:


> Still looking for answers , please help guys
> 
> Hi,
> I still have a few questions about including my mom as a dependent in the application.
> ...


The answer to your questions have not changed:

She needs to live with you for at least 12 months before you apply
She needs to be completely dependent on you financially and for her daily needs (if she is employed, she's not completely dependent on you
You need to provide evidence that she receives no other income. Again, if she is employed you cannot hide this.


----------



## expatj (Jan 19, 2016)

Hi

I need a help.
I am willing to apply for the Australian PR in subclass 190. I have a concern regarding the sub applicants while applying for mine. 

My case is,

We are three siblings, me, elder sister and elder brother. Sister is married and settled. I am thinking to include my brother and mother in pr application. My mother is widow and my brother had divorce. Both are living with me since 2 years. My mother is a pensioner. My brother is jobless since 2-3 years.

So, would it be ok to include them as dependent in my application ? 

Thanks in advance.


----------



## Sitanshu (Aug 23, 2015)

Hi Ashish1137

I also want to add my mother as a dependent and many things are very similar as was in your case. It would be a great help if you provide me the document lists and other sort of things (if any) to prove the dependency of your mother.

Regards,
Sitanshu


----------



## expatj (Jan 19, 2016)

Hi

I need a help.
I am willing to apply for the Australian PR in subclass 190. I have a concern regarding the sub applicants while applying for mine. 

My case is,

We are three siblings, me, elder sister and elder brother. Sister is married and settled. I am thinking to include my brother and mother in pr application. My mother is widow and my brother had divorce. Both are living with me since 2 years. My mother is a pensioner. My brother is jobless since 2-3 years.

So, would it be ok to include them as dependent in my application ? 

Please please please help. Thanks in advance.


----------



## Sitanshu (Aug 23, 2015)

Sitanshu said:


> Hi Ashish1137
> 
> I also want to add my mother as a dependent and many things are very similar as was in your case. It would be a great help if you provide me the document lists and other sort of things (if any) to prove the dependency of your mother.
> 
> ...


Hi Ashish1137,

I guess you would be very busy in your endeavours. If you could please spare some time for my query regarding the docs you submitted for mother's dependency. It would tremendously help me and those who needs such guidance. I know this thread has lots of information related to it and I deeply respects those who provided the momentous information. 

I addition to those info, we the new members also would like the info about the docs which in reality proved the case of mother's dependency.

I hope you understand the situation and help us.

PS: Possibility is that, Ashish might not be a frequent viewer of this forum, so any body who has Ashish personal contact, kindly convey this to him please.

Regards,
Sitanshu


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## arsalanzaki911 (Feb 22, 2016)

Hi Seniors,

Here, I have seen many people sharing their experiences and guiding others on complicated issues, thumbs up for all of you!!

I am also looking for some guidance please, 

I want to include my mother as dependent in my 189/190 visa application, by looking at this thread, so far, my understanding is that if the mother is not divorced or if the father is not deceased then adding mother as dependent is not possible, is it so?

In my case, my father is still alive, but he is married to another woman, and my mother is staying with me for the past 4 years, she is totally dependent on me. Can anyone please explain if I can add her as my dependent?

And, for some reason, if I will not be able to prove her as my dependent, in the later stage of my visa process, will I get a chance to remove her from my application and apply without her? Or the whole case will be rejected?


Any sort of guidance will be highly appreciated.
Thanks in advance.


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## stigmatized (Jul 29, 2015)

Hi dear,
Are your parents divorced or separated? If divorced then it would be easier for u to justify ur case. Regarding removing ur mom from application, u can do that at any stage during processing. Only concern would be medical as if any of th applicant fails in medical, whole application including u will be rejected. Hope it helps.



arsalanzaki911 said:


> Hi Seniors,
> 
> Here, I have seen many people sharing their experiences and guiding others on complicated issues, thumbs up for all of you!!
> 
> ...


----------



## stigmatized (Jul 29, 2015)

My dear, ur case seems difficult to justify. As your mother is pensioner, she is not financially dependent upon u. Moreover u have a brother who can take care of ur mom. So she is not emotionally dependent upon u. Rest is upto u. Good luck!



expatj said:


> Hi
> 
> I need a help.
> I am willing to apply for the Australian PR in subclass 190. I have a concern regarding the sub applicants while applying for mine.
> ...


----------



## arsalanzaki911 (Feb 22, 2016)

Hi stigmatized,

Thanks for your guidance.

My mother is not divorced but she is living with me in UAE under my sponsorship for more than 12 months and I am paying for all her needs, my father is not paying anything at all, my father can provide an affidavit to prove this, will this fulfill the requirement?

Regarding medical, please, do you have any idea of the kind of diseases that will cause problems? My mother has high blood pressure and minor cardio problems and she is over weight, do you think, these medical problems will create any issue?

Your help in this regard will greatly help me to make a realistic decision on adding her, thanks.




stigmatized said:


> Hi dear,
> Are your parents divorced or separated? If divorced then it would be easier for u to justify ur case. Regarding removing ur mom from application, u can do that at any stage during processing. Only concern would be medical as if any of th applicant fails in medical, whole application including u will be rejected. Hope it helps.


----------



## stigmatized (Jul 29, 2015)

Answers to ur questions:
1- At the time CO begins assessing ur case, he will ask u to fill form 80 (character assessment). In that form, u will have to provide details regarding ur siblings.
2- If ur sending money even after 2,3 months, that should be sufficient. Attach the remittance slips plus her account statement in which remittance is received.
3- They dont require proofs for non-working dependents. Just show somehow that u support them financially.



doublecheeseburger said:


> Hi,
> I still have a few questions about including my mom as a dependent in the application.
> 
> 1) While filling my application form it did not ask about my brother details. Only thing that was asked was "Non-dependent relatives not migrating to or living in australia". When will the department ask about the details of my brother?
> ...


----------



## stigmatized (Jul 29, 2015)

If she has bachelors degree or even high school certificate, get a medium of instruction letter from the institute that she studied the courses in English. That would be sufficient to show English proficiency.



msbh said:


> Hey all, I am newbie and gathering information,
> 
> I wanted to know if i am adding my mother as dependent , so it is must for her to appear in ielts test?
> 
> Thanks


----------



## stigmatized (Jul 29, 2015)

Regarding separation, that would be great if u can provide legal document(affidavit) that both are separated.
Regarding medical, bp is not an issue if its under control with medication. She has to prove that she can move around independently without any support. Contagious diseases usually fall under disablity. 
In medical they take blood test, urine, eyesight test, chest x-ray and assess if person is independent in his movements.



arsalanzaki911 said:


> Hi stigmatized,
> 
> Thanks for your guidance.
> 
> ...


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## Sitanshu (Aug 23, 2015)

Dear All,

Please help in preparing statutory declaration from my side and from my mother side about the dependency of my mother on me.

I would highly appreciate if sample of those declaration can be provided here on this thread.

I approached a lawyer and he said that I have to arrange the matter to be written on stamp paper and then only he can make the declaration and attest.

Please help!

Regards,
Sitanshu


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## Federika Ivanova (Feb 6, 2016)

*including mom in app*

Hi all,

I have quite a difficult case. I am going to lodge my app for 189 visa, and want to include my mom as a dependent relative.
*she is divorced for many years, and where is my father now is unknown
*she gets a little regular income - superannuation, which is lower than a claimed minimum cost of life
*she lives with me and wholly depends on me financially
*she has had a heart attack, but now she is fine

But, she has an elder son, which has never been working and never helped her financially, and he lives in the same apartment with us. 

Questions:
Will it be a problem for proving her dependency on me if she has a son (which is unemployed)?
If I provide proofs that my brother has no incomes and does not help my mom, will it turn him into a dependent relative too?
Can we fail in health requirements because of mom's heart attack?

look forward to replies.


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## psai1989 (Apr 8, 2016)

*Including my mother who receives pension*

Hi All,

I want to apply for PR to Australia, either subclass 189 or 190, and I want to include my mother in the application as a dependent. My mother is a widow aged 62 yrs and she has been living with me for the past 6 yrs. I am her only son. She cannot speak any English at all, as she did not even have basic high school education.

I have found certain clauses on the Australian immigration website for which I do not have sufficient evidence.

_--- "documents showing that your relative has been dependent on you for at least the 12 months immediately before you lodge your application."
--- "they are wholly or substantially reliant on your financial support for their basic living needs (food, shelter and clothing)"
--- "they have relied on you for at least the 12 months immediately before you lodge your application."_

My father was a retired government employee, so my mother is receiving family pension (upto 20k INR) after he has expired. We pay house rent, electricity bills, utility bills, etc, online through my mother's bank account and my own bank account. I have never transferred any money to my mother's bank account because we live together, and I give her some cash for her needs.
*How can I prove that she is financially dependent on me?* She is financially dependent on me, indeed. The family pension is not enough for her needs.

_--- "documents showing that the relative lives in your household"
--- "they usually live with you"_

We have been living in rented houses and we applied for address proofs at different points of time. As a result, both of us have different addresses on Aadhar cards. I got my passport already. So, I can change my mother's address in her Aadhar card and subsequently apply for passport with the same address.
*Is it enough if we both have same address proofs at the time of applying?*
All utility bills are on my name and the electricity bill is on house owner's name. The rent receipt is also on my name. There is no bill or any letter in the name of my mother to prove that she has been living with me for the past 12 months.

Please let me know whether I can include my mother in my PR application by providing any other legal documents. Anybody from India who can suggest any Indian documents?

My mother is really dependent on me financially and emotionally.
I cant choose the option of visit visa or parent visa, because she can not stay alone without me, for even 1 month.

Please help.


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## skksundar (Apr 29, 2014)

*My view on your chances and documents required*



psai1989 said:


> Hi All,
> 
> I want to apply for PR to Australia, either subclass 189 or 190, and I want to include my mother in the application as a dependent. My mother is a widow aged 62 yrs and she has been living with me for the past 6 yrs. I am her only son. She cannot speak any English at all, as she did not even have basic high school education.
> 
> ...


Hi,

Am summing up the response based on my experience

1. You're the only son - A positive aspect
2. Living with you for last 6 years - that's good again. Do you hold a ration card with both your names on it? If it has the current address, you could attach as supporting document provided its on english; otherwise, getting it translated by a professional translator should do the trick
3. Rental receipts - Attach them as supporting document
4. Attach your Father's demise certificate as another supporting document
5. If you have booked your mother's travel tickets (air/train/bus/taxi), use those tickets; ever recharged your mother's mobile or paid her mobile bills ? Use those receipts as well. 
6. Furnish both of your bank statements
7. In case you have the legal heir certificate(believe you should) of yours, that will clearly mention yours and your mother name 

About the 20k in pension, am not sure though. But you definitely stand a chance (another member got PR for his mother after furnishing the same pension figure his mother was drawing)

Remember, no matter what the chances are, be truthful while filling out the application; this will help and maintain the consistency of information you provide (I was asked to fill form 80/47a and ended up providing the entire life history of applicants)
In case your mother has a medical condition, be honest about it.

All the very best


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## skksundar (Apr 29, 2014)

Federika Ivanova said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I have quite a difficult case. I am going to lodge my app for 189 visa, and want to include my mom as a dependent relative.
> *she is divorced for many years, and where is my father now is unknown
> ...


Hi,
Am not sure about the first 2 questions; sorry about that, regarding health requirements, if there's a medical report you can attach to show her improved heart condition/medication that she's undergoing(if any), that should be fine. 

Good luck.


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## jtran09 (Jan 13, 2016)

Hi,
I wanted to include my twin sister to my application
1. She's a fulltime student
2. Our parents pay for her school fees
3. She's living with me and I pay for food and her bills
4. Rent and other money is from our parents.
5. I'm working full time and sometime I transfer some money for her to pay stuff. 
6. She doesn have a job.

Can she be my dependant?

Thank you.


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## aus-here-i-come (May 26, 2016)

*Mother as dependent.*

Hey guys, we all know our parents mean a lot to us. And it very difficult to think leaving them alone, if you are the only person taking care of them. Well I am in the same boat. I have lodged my case. Know uploading the documents. Has anyone got visa for there parents too? If yes please guide me through it. My case can be described as below with following evidences:

1- My mother is a widow - Death certificate of father.
2- we live together - Bills on my mother's name and on my wife's name; My all bank statements addresses are same.
3- We are three children our mother has. And I am the one who is taking care of her. As my elder bother live abroad and my sister is married and live in other city.
4- I pay all the bills which is reflected in my bank statement.
5- I buy all the grocery.
6- My mother is enlisted and entitled of having medical on my company's panel.
7- The house we live is was gifted to me by my mother - way back. Gift deed as a proof.

What are the chances and any suggestions to improve the case? Please help..!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## maestric (Jul 7, 2015)

Dear experts, need your valuable suggestion in my case.

I am planning to add my mother as dependent in my visa application. the situation is as below.

1. My mother is living with me in Malaysia for 11 months: I sponsored her for Long term visit visa.
2. She is a widow: my father passsed away in 2012.
3. After my father passed away, she has been dependent on me. I am bearing all her expenses. But since she cant draw money form ATM, i have seldom sent money to her account, rather sent money thru my friends.
4. I have bought health insurance for her for couplpe of years thru my company in india.

My queries:
1. What is the risk if i add my mother as dependent?
2. Is the VISA sponsored by me for her long term(11 mont+) visit in malaysia sufficient for the dependency proof?
3. She is 55+ , can't speak english: Do i need to pay the second installment for non functional english depedents. Any risks assocated with this part. I saw somewhere, senior citizens are exempted from language test. can i hope for that exemption for my mother.
4. Finally, if the CO doesn't satifsy that my mother is dependent, will the whole application gets rejected?

kindly advice for my case... many thanks in advance.


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## Maggie-May24 (May 19, 2015)

1. If she fails the medical, then your visa would be refused.
2. Probably not, you need to show she's completely dependent on you.
3. Any dependent over the age of 18 must have Functional English or you pay the secondary fee.
4. If your CO isn't satisfied that she's your dependent, you will be give the opportunity to remove her from your application.


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## greatn (Nov 2, 2016)

Dear experts, I am new to this thread and I really need your advice.
I have been invited to apply for visa 189 and I plan on adding my brother and spouse. My confusion is the documents to provide on my brother's behalf . He is just 11 years old and lives in my home country at the moment while I have been living in Australia for the past 2 years. However, before my relocation, we lived together. Due to the economic crisis in my country my parents can no longer cater for him, thus my reason for wanting to bring him over. I have been sending money to my mum from the beginning of this year to cater for his needs such as food, clothing and school fees. He is my only sibling. 
1) what exact documents can I provide to support that he depends on me 
2) Since I have been living in Australia for almost 2yrs now and he hasn't been with me, can that be waived or do i still need to provide documents showing that we lived together before i travelled
3)I can provide my mum's bank statement showing she has been receiving money from me and i can also present the school fees receipt paid by my mum from the money i sent to her. she will also provide a court custody proving that she consents to me being responsible for my brother's wellbeing..Are these 3 documents enough? Thanks


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## umairgr (May 26, 2016)

*Guidance required*

Dear Members,
My question is I am waiting for Outcome result of my cdr for 233311 Electrical Engineer.
After which I plan to submit an EOI for 190 NSW state nomination.
My elder brother is an Australian Citizen living in Sydney while my rest 2 sisters live in their homes with their husbands in Pakistan. I am living with my mother in her house. She is 62 years old and widowed , financially I am supporting her. 
I dont have any migration agent currently.
How can I include her in my application
What do you advise? 

Regards


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## sultan_azam (Sep 9, 2015)

umairgr said:


> Dear Members,
> My question is I am waiting for Outcome result of my cdr for 233311 Electrical Engineer.
> After which I plan to submit an EOI for 190 NSW state nomination.
> My elder brother is an Australian Citizen living in Sydney while my rest 2 sisters live in their homes with their husbands in Pakistan. I am living with my mother in her house. She is 62 years old and widowed , financially I am supporting her.
> ...


it seems tough to add her in your PR application, because after Nov 19, parents are not considered a part of Member of Family Unit

what you can think of is a tourist visa for your mother applied by your brother who is citizen, 

https://www.border.gov.au/Migrationagents/Pages/member-of-family-unit.aspx


also read https://www.border.gov.au/Trav/Brin/Pare/balance-of-family-test


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## umairgr (May 26, 2016)

sultan_azam said:


> it seems tough to add her in your PR application, because after Nov 19, parents are not considered a part of Member of Family Unit
> 
> what you can think of is a tourist visa for your mother applied by your brother who is citizen,
> 
> ...


Dear Sir!
Thankyou for your reply....previously when I visited website border.gov, there used to be option of including dependant parents in 190 visa. But not now since you indicated the change in policy. As you know the culture of our subcontinent, its not possible for mothers to live with married daughters. Tourist visa is good option but not a permanent solution. can it be made a special case on the grounds of cultral issue?
Regards


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## Maggie-May24 (May 19, 2015)

umairgr said:


> Dear Members,
> My question is I am waiting for Outcome result of my cdr for 233311 Electrical Engineer.
> After which I plan to submit an EOI for 190 NSW state nomination.
> My elder brother is an Australian Citizen living in Sydney while my rest 2 sisters live in their homes with their husbands in Pakistan. I am living with my mother in her house. She is 62 years old and widowed , financially I am supporting her.
> ...


You cannot include your mother in your application. After you get your PR and move to Australia, your brother can sponsor her for a parent visa (he would be the sponsor since the sponsor generally must have lived in Australia as a citizen/PR for two years). If she only has 4 children and 2 live in Australia, then she would pass the Balance of Family test required for a parent visa.


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## umairgr (May 26, 2016)

Maggie-May24 said:


> You cannot include your mother in your application. After you get your PR and move to Australia, your brother can sponsor her for a parent visa (he would be the sponsor since the sponsor generally must have lived in Australia as a citizen/PR for two years). If she only has 4 children and 2 live in Australia, then she would pass the Balance of Family test required for a parent visa.


Thankyou for your advise.... The change in policy was quite saddening for me as when I checked last time that was before the change happened Itold my mother that she will go with me, but anyways there is still way to ensure it even though it would be a bit time consuming. 
One more question if she is on a visitors visa sponsored by my brother, can she apply for parent visa while bieng present onshore in Australia, provided she is fulfilling balance of family test.?
Regards


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## sultan_azam (Sep 9, 2015)

umairgr said:


> Thankyou for your advise.... The change in policy was quite saddening for me as when I checked last time that was before the change happened Itold my mother that she will go with me, but anyways there is still way to ensure it even though it would be a bit time consuming.
> One more question if she is on a visitors visa sponsored by my brother, can she apply for parent visa while bieng present onshore in Australia, provided she is fulfilling balance of family test.?
> Regards


this may help you

https://www.border.gov.au/Trav/Brin/Pare


https://www.border.gov.au/Trav/Visa-1/173-

https://www.border.gov.au/Trav/Visa-1/143-

https://www.border.gov.au/Trav/Visa-1/804-

https://www.border.gov.au/Trav/Visa-1/884-

https://www.border.gov.au/Trav/Visa-1/864-


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## sultan_azam (Sep 9, 2015)

umairgr said:


> Dear Sir!
> Thankyou for your reply....previously when I visited website border.gov, there used to be option of including dependant parents in 190 visa. But not now since you indicated the change in policy. As you know the culture of our subcontinent, its not possible for mothers to live with married daughters. Tourist visa is good option but not a permanent solution. can it be made a special case on the grounds of cultral issue?
> Regards


yes i understand your situation but these are the prevailing rules and we have to find a way in that


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## RUIS (Feb 12, 2017)

*Documents query*

My mother does not live at my residence, but with my elder sister who had to recently quit job due to medical reasons. I had been financially supporting my mom by sending her money, but to my sister's bank account. But my mom is listed as dependent parent in my office and hence i have medical insurance for her from my company. 

Now if I want to list her as my dependent parent, what documents can I submit?


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## lsvas (Feb 16, 2017)

Do Parents fall under other relatives category? which means if both my parents live with me and are financially dependent on me, i cannot add them as dependents on my application?


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## Maggie-May24 (May 19, 2015)

RUIS said:


> My mother does not live at my residence, but with my elder sister who had to recently quit job due to medical reasons. I had been financially supporting my mom by sending her money, but to my sister's bank account. But my mom is listed as dependent parent in my office and hence i have medical insurance for her from my company.
> 
> Now if I want to list her as my dependent parent, what documents can I submit?





lsvas said:


> Do Parents fall under other relatives category? which means if both my parents live with me and are financially dependent on me, i cannot add them as dependents on my application?


Parents cannot be included as dependents. The only family members you can include as dependents are spouse/partner and dependent children up to the age of 23 (or older if they are financially dependent due to physical/cognitive disability)

Including family members in your application


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## fabbas84 (Jan 17, 2017)

Hi.

I am new in this group. We are three brothers and all live in UAE along with my mother. My father has passed away and my elder brother has sponsored my mother in UAE as the salary requirement to sponsor parent is AED 20k. Our rented flat is also in the name of my elder brother.

I would like to add my mother as a dependent in my visa subclass-190. Please advise whether I will get my mother visa? What are the documents I need to submit?

Your urgent help will be highly apprecaited.

Faisal


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## fabbas84 (Jan 17, 2017)

Hi.

I am new in this group. We are three brothers and all live in UAE along with my mother. My father has passed away and my elder brother has sponsored my mother in UAE as the salary requirement to sponsor parent is AED 20k. Our rented flat is also in the name of my elder brother.

I would like to add my mother as a dependent in my visa subclass-190. Please advise whether I will get my mother visa? What are the documents I need to submit?

Your urgent help will be highly appreciated.

Faisal


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## kaju (Oct 31, 2011)

fabbas84 said:


> Hi.
> 
> I am new in this group. We are three brothers and all live in UAE along with my mother. My father has passed away and my elder brother has sponsored my mother in UAE as the salary requirement to sponsor parent is AED 20k. Our rented flat is also in the name of my elder brother.
> 
> ...


You can't add a parent as a dependent.

Since 19 November 2016, Parents can longer be included on any Permanent Residence visa applications (including all Skilled Migration visas), except those for refugee, humanitarian and protection visas. 

http://www.expatforum.com/expats/au...-bringing-parents-australia.html#post12525202


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## TOPGUN (Jul 8, 2009)

war said:


> Hi All,
> 
> I am planning to include my mother-in-law and brother-in-law in my application for 189.
> My father-in-law passed away on December 2012. Since January 2013 my mother-in-law and brother-in-law live with us. My brother-in-law is 21 year old, student. We pay his tuition fee, the rent of house. They are completely dependent on us. But the question is how do we prove that? How do we prove they live with us as well?
> ...




Did you got MIL and BIL visa? I am in same boat and advise would be appritiated.


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## Diggy (Feb 10, 2017)

How can one show a de facto relationship? I intend migrating with my girlfriend, but she just did her assessment.
We have been on and off in a relationship.
I intend claiming points from her.What and what do I need to tender to DIPB to make things work out perfectly.
Thanks.


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## Diggy (Feb 10, 2017)

Diggy said:


> How can one show a de facto relationship? I intend migrating with my girlfriend, but she just did her assessment.
> We have been on and off in a relationship.
> I intend claiming points from her.What and what do I need to tender to DIPB to make things work out perfectly.
> Thanks.


Someone should answer me, what if I marry her and we get to Aussie and she starts misbehaving, how easy is it for me to divorce her.
Pls I need urgent answer now.


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## Maggie-May24 (May 19, 2015)

Diggy said:


> How can one show a de facto relationship? I intend migrating with my girlfriend, but she just did her assessment.
> We have been on and off in a relationship.
> I intend claiming points from her.What and what do I need to tender to DIPB to make things work out perfectly.
> Thanks.


You need to provide sufficient evidence that it's a genuine and ongoing relationship. If it's "on and off", then you may have difficulty but depends on how much is "off" vs "on"




Diggy said:


> Someone should answer me, what if I marry her and we get to Aussie and she starts misbehaving, how easy is it for me to divorce her.
> Pls I need urgent answer now.


Maybe the question should include what if you start misbehaving and she wants to divorce you?


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## Diggy (Feb 10, 2017)

Maggie-May24 said:


> Diggy said:
> 
> 
> > How can one show a de facto relationship? I intend migrating with my girlfriend, but she just did her assessment.
> ...


Yes, how easy is it for her to divorce me?
Pls what documents do I need to provide regarding this? Just marriage certificate?


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