# Just how bad is it?



## kloegman (Dec 4, 2008)

Are things as bad in Spain as the media tell us, or is there something else going on here?


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## SteveHall (Oct 17, 2008)

Well, if you had read Información yesterday you would not have asked. This is getting stupid. 

La recesión paraliza 700 promociones y hunde la construcción en Alicante - Alicante - INFORMACION.es


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

kloegman said:


> Are things as bad in Spain as the media tell us, or is there something else going on here?


I guess its better if you retire here with a good pension, but if you have to work its not looking good


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Stravinsky said:


> I guess its better if you retire here with a good pension, but if you have to work its not looking good


That also depends on the exchange rate! Although better than it was, it isnt brilliant and the cost of food and utilities here is rising! 

I've just been back to the UK for a "flying visit" and it is alot cheaper over there than it was!! Just as an example: when I moved to Spain a year ago a 2 litre bottle of diet coke was 1.06Euros and in the UK was £1.25 - the exchange rate was £1 - 1.35Euros

Today, the same bottle of diet coke is 1.39Euros in Spain and £1.00 in the UK - the exchange rate is £1 - 1.14euros

Only one item, but it is indicative of a trend and it seems to me that as fast as the UK prices are falling, Spanish prices are rising

That said, if you want to live in the sunshine and enjoy a relaxed atmosphere, good food, views, beautiful beaches..... Stuff the exchange rate and costs and enjoy!!!!!

Jo


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## SteveHall (Oct 17, 2008)

"That said, if you want to live in the sunshine and enjoy a relaxed atmosphere, good food, views, beautiful beaches..... Stuff the exchange rate and costs and enjoy!!!!!"

Snow yesterday on my way back through Granada - minus 0,5º ...but apart from that I agree with you LOL


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

SteveHall said:


> Snow yesterday on my way back through Granada - minus 0,5º ...but apart from that I agree with you LOL



yeah, yeah, yeah.... point taken LOL!!

I've just been to the UK for a 24hr visit and actually.... it really was absolutely freezing there - not as bad as the media would have you believe with regards to the snow, but I noticed how warm 10c in Malaga was compared to 2c in Gatwick!!

Jo xx


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## SteveHall (Oct 17, 2008)

10º at Málaga felt positively balmy compared to minus in Granada! 

Welcome back


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## XTreme (May 17, 2008)

Granada is a province for _Real Men_ Steve.....far too rigorous for you Costas Softies!


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## SteveHall (Oct 17, 2008)

After sliding around in the car park and being lucky not to "re-design" the wall of the petrol station, I decided that I could do without a coffee and continued on ...only to find myself stuck behind a gritter. 

Happy to be a costa softie!


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## XTreme (May 17, 2008)

We've had snow on the mountains surrounding us since the last week of October Steve. Recently it got down to -8 in the town, and apparently -14 in Don Fadrique.....about 15 miles away.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

SteveHall said:


> ...only to find myself stuck behind a gritter.


Dont tell the UK, they'll demand that its sent over immediately!


Jo x


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## SteveHall (Oct 17, 2008)

Sun, sea, sand...and snow


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## jkchawner (Dec 21, 2008)

gritters. 1% intrest rates. more snow on the way. no more grit for the roads they say !
polish workers taken the jobs on offer because they work for nothing compared with us. uk weather crap even in the summer. £40 k loss in 2008 alone why am i still here ? spain must be heaven ! i cannot see anyway out apart from lottery win coming my way how about u ?


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## chris(madrid) (Mar 23, 2008)

jkchawner said:


> polish workers taken the jobs on offer because they work for nothing compared with us.


Here that means Moroccans/Romanians/South Americans plus the waifs and strays of most of northern Europe who suddenly find that "idyllic" life in the Sun without food is JUST as hard, if not worse than the drudge of life at home. 

The min wage here is about 600Euros a month. You cannot live on this UNLESS like some of the above you a preprepared to live in communal dwellings renting 1 room. In the poorer areas near us this is becoming a reality now amongst Spaniards.

Living here IS a lifestyle choice - it also means you need to adopt the Spanish lifestyle if you NEED to work. The Holiday lifestyle expectation will only lead to tears 99% of the time. 

To the extent MANY are now returning to the countries they originally fled from. We're currently consoling a Spanish friend whose partner has gone back home to Peru as he realised he'd probably NEVER find gainful employ here. It's really very sad. Frankly I'd give him a good whacking if I saw him again - but not because of his reasons. He acted abominably. 

I've been openly "negative" about things here in Spain - But as much as anything because I'd rather not see the above happen to others. I'd rather tell it how it is - at least then nobody can say they were not warned.


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## cuevadame (Dec 31, 2008)

"polish workers taken the jobs on offer because they work for nothing compared with us"

Mmm - I used to hear that complaint about Romanians from expats on the Costa Blanca too.....couldn't it be that perhaps it's not the fault of the migrant workers but more the fault of greedy (British) employers who are more than happy to exploit the migrant workers in order to line their own pockets? Just a thought.


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## jkchawner (Dec 21, 2008)

*ref polish*



cuevadame said:


> "polish workers taken the jobs on offer because they work for nothing compared with us"
> 
> Mmm - I used to hear that complaint about Romanians from expats on the Costa Blanca too.....couldn't it be that perhaps it's not the fault of the migrant workers but more the fault of greedy (British) employers who are more than happy to exploit the migrant workers in order to line their own pockets? Just a thought.


oh i aggree your 100% right on that but it dont take the fact away that there is a hell of alot less work because of this again the british shoot themselfs in the foot i suppose.
i read all the doom and gloom on here most days about spains problems as i am hoping to move over there myself this year with my partner. seroius health problems force me to. i have avery good business over in the uk i need to sell first then im on the plane myself.
so if anyone returning to the uk wants a great one man band business at the right price which turned 65k profit in 2008 great im on my way to good old spain. if noti may have to wait longer.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

cuevadame said:


> "polish workers taken the jobs on offer because they work for nothing compared with us"
> 
> Mmm - I used to hear that complaint about Romanians from expats on the Costa Blanca too.....couldn't it be that perhaps it's not the fault of the migrant workers but more the fault of greedy (British) employers who are more than happy to exploit the migrant workers in order to line their own pockets? Just a thought.



....or the fault of the greedy (british) employees, who demand such high wages?? Just another way of looking at it!

Jo


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## rospapergirl (Sep 10, 2008)

It's bad everywhere in the world at the moment both from an economic and employment view and freaky weather aspect - global warming? Don't think so!

Everthing's relative but it's not a time to make rash decisions and no-one knows how long it will take to drag ouselves out of this mess!


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

rospapergirl said:


> Everthing's relative but it's not a time to make rash decisions and no-one knows how long it will take to drag ouselves out of this mess!


I totally agree. Now is the time to stay put until the world has sorted itself out. If you're in a mess in your own country, there's no reason to assume its gonna be any better in another. At least you have friends, family, language and a welfare system in the UK.

And whether I'm being a misery cos of the bad weather here in Spain or whether its just cos the novelty has worn off from being here, as lovely as being in Spain can be, the bottom line is its "the same sh1t, different place" and without an income - its bad

Jo x


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## SteveHall (Oct 17, 2008)

Gorgeous here today, Jojo. 

You are very welcome to come down to buy me a coffee. Nice new Spanish bar on the paseo will be getting my lunchtime custom. Then off to Vélez Málaga to watch the football. C D Barrio v Alhaurín de la Torre


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

SteveHall said:


> Gorgeous here today, Jojo.
> 
> You are very welcome to come down to buy me a coffee. Nice new Spanish bar on the paseo will be getting my lunchtime custom. Then off to Vélez Málaga to watch the football. C D Barrio v Alhaurín de la Torre


I have every intention of popping down to your office tomorrow Steve!! If I can find it??????????????? (I've kept the PM telling me its opposite something??) Yes, it is a lovely sunny day today, albeit very windy, so I "mustnt grumble" !!!!!

Jo x


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## XTreme (May 17, 2008)

SteveHall said:


> Gorgeous here today, Jojo.
> 
> You are very welcome to come down to buy me a coffee. Nice new Spanish bar on the paseo will be getting my lunchtime custom. Then off to Vélez Málaga to watch the football. C D Barrio v Alhaurín de la Torre


It's about time Steve Hall got a warning from the Mods for persistently scrounging coffee from other members! Particularly the lovely ladies!

And none of that Brit ghetto culture for me.....I've shifted 20 bales of straw from one side of the town to the other today!

We're rugged individualists in Granada!


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## SteveHall (Oct 17, 2008)

You would be most welcome Jojo. If you come to the office then neither of us will have to pay for the coffee!! 

XTreme - you are just jealous that you can't get a sub-30 niñita to cross the street to buy you a coffee never mind come 30 kms across the province! Note that my lunch today will NOT be in a Brit-bar in the ghetto but in a new Spanish bar on the paseo. 

Talking about bars I was in "La Cazuelita" last night to watch the Madrid game with Spanish friends when we had a "Spanish" moment. There was a mixed group of 10/15 andaluces on the next table who seemed to be having a lot of noisy fun and laughter over their dinner. Suddenly one of their midst started singing. She had the most amazing soprano voice (can you get female sopranos?) and was singing her songs of love, passion and unrequited love (Reminded me of you, XTreme LOL - or is yours unrequited lust?!?!) 

The whole pub stopped talking about Madrid's pathetic midfield and non-existent strike-force to listen to her. She was not even standing just singing "To" her husband. Now if this was an English bar the landlord would have been over and told her to stop singing "We hate Nottingham Forest, We hate Man City too...." but here he was equally mesmerised. She was absolutely magnificent. One of her group had the eye for a buck and passed an empty ashtray round .... I was quite happy to throw a euro in. Quite magnificent, quite spontaneous......TOTALLY Spanish. 

It's moments like that that remind me why I am here.


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## SteveHall (Oct 17, 2008)

XTreme said:


> And none of that Brit ghetto culture for me.....I've shifted 20 bales of straw from one side of the town to the other today!
> 
> We're rugged individualists in Granada!


Mmmm, looking to make the sheep comfortable tonight, are we? Run out of duvets? Or are they only used by the "Costa softies"? Bet you had your wellies on! 

I think XTreme should get a warning from the mods for persistently advertising his Welsh roots!


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## tigersharkjs (Sep 19, 2008)

It has been raining and completely fogged in here for the past 2 days...Happy, now, Jojo??? haha anyway, that's what keeps the golf courses in the middle of the desert BRIGHT GREEN right, Steve?...15 days till we land in Malaga, but who's counting =)


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## Barry Davys (Aug 2, 2008)

Just how bad is it? See the BBC news article (and the UK newspapers) on the Travellers Database which will log ALL trips to and from the UK, be kept in a "secure" facility on an industrial estate in Manchester. Quote "To stop people getting in who don't want to play by our rules".


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## SteveHall (Oct 17, 2008)

cuevadame said:


> "polish workers taken the jobs on offer because they work for nothing compared with us"
> 
> Mmm - I used to hear that complaint about Romanians from expats on the Costa Blanca too.....couldn't it be that perhaps it's not the fault of the migrant workers but more the fault of greedy (British) employers who are more than happy to exploit the migrant workers in order to line their own pockets? Just a thought.



A very sad story about Romanian workers


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## cuevadame (Dec 31, 2008)

SteveHall said:


> You would be most welcome Jojo. If you come to the office then neither of us will have to pay for the coffee!!
> 
> XTreme - you are just jealous that you can't get a sub-30 niñita to cross the street to buy you a coffee never mind come 30 kms across the province! Note that my lunch today will NOT be in a Brit-bar in the ghetto but in a new Spanish bar on the paseo.
> 
> ...


Oh, me too....wonderful!


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## SteveHall (Oct 17, 2008)

Yes, a great moment. There have been a few this week - the singing, Real Madrid's win and more mundanely on the paseo this morning, trying to avoid getting the burning sun on my face, whilst sipping un cortado and enjoying my toast with tomato mush. Ain't life sweet? 

How much snow is there in Wiltshire, GG?


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## Pasanada (Feb 5, 2008)

SteveHall said:


> Yes, a great moment. There have been a few this week - the singing, Real Madrid's win and more mundanely on the paseo this morning, trying to avoid getting the burning sun on my face, whilst sipping un cortado and enjoying my toast with tomato mush. Ain't life sweet?
> 
> *How much snow is there in Wiltshire, GG?*


The snow has dwindled away to almost nothing (apart from the rolling hills around Salisbury) but a snow storm is coming up from France and due to arrive here this evening!  Bedfordshire (where I was marooned all of last week!) was dreadful!

Back to coffee.....let me know if you're free in April....tee hee...  Xtreme is of course, very welcome to join the Coffee Club!


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## SteveHall (Oct 17, 2008)

Keep safe! 

Sure, a coffee sounds good. Shout when you know your dates. If you are off to the bat-cave somewhere down there would be perfect. (Should be above zero by then!)


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## Pasanada (Feb 5, 2008)

I'm hoping to get to the Bat Cave in my Batmobile (not topless I hasten to add!) so will let you know nearer the time.


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## ibz1492 (Mar 10, 2009)

*Slow but far from dead*

If I listened to the media in Spain or anywhere else in Europe or the USA, I would kill myself..... If you don't need to work and have money to live, you will not notice any negatives about the economy in Spain. In some ways its better now..... Ask people who live here and not the people who need to sensationalize everything in order to sell newspapers or TV and radio news!!!!!!!!


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## kloegman (Dec 4, 2008)

ibz1492 said:


> If I listened to the media in Spain or anywhere else in Europe or the USA, I would kill myself..... If you don't need to work and have money to live, you will not notice any negatives about the economy in Spain. In some ways its better now..... Ask people who live here and not the people who need to sensationalize everything in order to sell newspapers or TV and radio news!!!!!!!!


Thanks so much for that! To be honest, it's just as I suspected. I'm coming to Spain late in May so I shall be able to judge for myself, as well as speak to people first hand. Many many thanks!


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## Barry Davys (Aug 2, 2008)

Looking at the thread there are two points.
1. A management consulat friend says living in Spain is where the falling salary line crosses the increasing amount of sunshine line. In other words a pretty good compromise position.
2. How bad is it? There is a great book called The Black Swan by Nassim Nicholas Taleb's. It is a good read although you have to have your reading hat on. One of the points he makes is that it is what you don´t know which is as impotant as what you do know. The media use this which is why you only get one perspective in the media. Two recentexamples.

Headline "UK Car sales fall 40" - Dreadful, no. What you don´t get told is that there were still 1.25 MILLION new cars sold.
Headline "Dunfermline Building Society Collapes" Again, dreadful. What you don´t get told is that the FSA changed the Dunfermline´s Capital Adequacy requirement from 4% to 8% and it was this that was a large contributor to the demise of the Dunfermline.

Yes there is lots of bad things happening but it is NOT going to be bad for ever and there are many good things happening in the background.

Vive la free press


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## kloegman (Dec 4, 2008)

Many thanks Barry,

Interesting perspective - very thought provoking.
Thanks for the tip on the book.

Regards, Paul K






Barry Davys said:


> Looking at the thread there are two points.
> 1. A management consulat friend says living in Spain is where the falling salary line crosses the increasing amount of sunshine line. In other words a pretty good compromise position.
> 2. How bad is it? There is a great book called The Black Swan by Nassim Nicholas Taleb's. It is a good read although you have to have your reading hat on. One of the points he makes is that it is what you don´t know which is as impotant as what you do know. The media use this which is why you only get one perspective in the media. Two recentexamples.
> 
> ...


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## willh (Nov 11, 2008)

was over in spain for a few days last week, couldnt believe the amount of restaurants and bars that have just died of late. amazing how the crappy exchange rate can affect everything. that aside, something else that was addressed in the Metro this morning that made me giggle...


Spanish told to smile for Brits
Thursday, March 26, 2009 
That'll do: Spaniards are being told to smile to entice more Brits abroad Grumpy Spanish taxi drivers, waiters and hotel staff are being trained to be nice to British holidaymakers to try to revive their flagging tourist industry. 
Cabbies are also being told to make sure their cars smell nice and learn English phrases such as: 'Welcome to my taxi – make yourself at home.' 

'We're aware Spaniards are not seen as overly friendly by British holidaymakers and we want to change that grumpy image,' said a spokesman at the Chamber of Commerce in Lanzarote, where the pilot scheme has launched. 


RELATED ITEMS

'If we want British tourists to keep coming back year after year and encouraging their friends to visit, we must be cheerier and friendlier to them.' 

The number of Britons visiting Spain has fallen nearly 25 per cent in a year. Some of the drop is down to the weak pound, which is almost level with the euro as the recession sets in. 

But tourism bosses believe Spaniards' grumpy reputation is partly to blame, and have decided to take action. 

If the classes are deemed a success, they will be introduced across Spain.




think it will take more than a few classes to change the habit of a lifetime...


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

willh said:


> was over in spain for a few days last week, couldnt believe the amount of restaurants and bars that have just died of late. amazing how the crappy exchange rate can affect everything. that aside, something else that was addressed in the Metro this morning that made me giggle...
> 
> 
> Spanish told to smile for Brits
> ...


FFS! 

Jo x


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