# PRA Rules for homeowner



## cereco (Nov 1, 2010)

In 2017, I bought a new house and lot for cash, purchasing the lot in my Filipina partner's name and the house in my name.

We then got our attorney to draw up a 25 years lease between us, where I pay my partner PHP 3,000 per month to lease the lot from her.

I pay her a regular monthly allowance plus an extra PHP 3,000, to keep the contract legitimate.

When I applied for a PRA visa, I was told by the manager of the Angeles PRA office that the sum I was paying my partner was not enough to apply for a PRA visa, even though I paid PHP 3.45 million for the house allone.

She said I needed to create a new lease showing I was paying my partner the equivalent of $50,000 a year.

I think the PRA manager is wrong in her interpretation of the rules.

I was also shocked to be told that even if I did as she asked, they would still want to register a charge over the title deeds for me to get my $10,000 security deposit refunded.

Has anybody else bought a house (not a condominium) and (a) successfully applied for a PRA visa and (b) received their $10,000 deposit back?


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## Shadowman (Apr 20, 2020)

I don't know the answer but you could turn your partner into a wife, then get a 13a Visa so you don't have to worry about these PRA Visa problems anymore.


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## bigpearl (Jan 24, 2016)

cereco said:


> In 2017, I bought a new house and lot for cash, purchasing the lot in my Filipina partner's name and the house in my name.
> 
> We then got our attorney to draw up a 25 years lease between us, where I pay my partner PHP 3,000 per month to lease the lot from her.
> 
> ...


If you go down this path with the PRA to get your deposit released the lease as well as the title will have to be changed to include them on these documents (encumbered).
More cost and time and one I decided against.
If you search on here there is a lot of info that I and others have contributed in regards to your situation.

Cheers, Steve.


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## Hey_Joe (Sep 13, 2016)

cereco said:


> In 2017, I bought a new house and lot for cash, purchasing the lot in my Filipina partner's name and the house in my name.
> 
> We then got our attorney to draw up a 25 years lease between us, where I pay my partner PHP 3,000 per month to lease the lot from her.
> 
> ...


Regarding: I paid PHP 3.45 million for the house alone.

Who paid for the lot and how much was it?

Regarding: I pay her a regular monthly allowance plus an extra PHP 3,000, per month to keep the contract legitimate.

P3k a month x 12months x 25 years is P900K, plus the monthly allowance? Why didn't you apply the 3.45 million as paid in full for that 25year lease and monthly allowance? 

Additionally, although it's your partner, you could have the contract state that she must pay you for living in the house. 

Did you consider what if clauses like if the relationship terminates, she is no longer permitted to live in the house, she can only inspect the lot on a monthly basis, or she must return the pre paid future rent on a pro rated basis (which will never happen) but it's additional leverage for you, etc. etc. You could have been creative. 

You may consider acquiring the book of guidelines they are using on you, ask them to show you the law. I would change attorney's for who helped you write that contract. Do your own research, find the applicable laws. It will likely save you wheel barrels full of cash.


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## bigpearl (Jan 24, 2016)

A couple of other things to add.
When you purchased the property did you have the title encumbered with a lien expressing your 25 year lease?
Is bequeathment and the ability to sell the lease written into it?
We also had written into the 25+25 year lease that the lessor was paid 5M pesos covering the full 50 years of lease which was what he used to purchase the land, this was also written into the sale contract and deed of sale.
Additionally it was clearly stated in the contracts the breakup cost of the lot in my better half's name and then the house, buildings and improvements (in my name)

Another thing I'm not clear on, others may know. firstly you cannot under Filipino law lease from your wife/husband as you are considered the same entity.
So while she is your partner that's probably fine but what happens to the lease legally if you marry your partner? Just a thought.

For myself and only what I am going to do is stay here on a tourist visa, when I decide to draw a pension from my superannuation in a few years I will then kiss US 10K away until my demise and my better half can haggle with them to get it back. 6 to 12 month procedure I believe.

Always here in this country, while you hope to have everything covered never be surprised if you lose the whole lot, fingers crossed but one never knows.

Cheers, Steve.


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## Hey_Joe (Sep 13, 2016)

bigpearl said:


> A couple of other things to add.
> When you purchased the property did you have the title encumbered with a lien expressing your 25 year lease?.


Excellent, very important addition. He can still add the current or an amended lease after the purchase to the title.


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## M.C.A. (Feb 24, 2013)

cereco said:


> In 2017, I bought a new house and lot for cash, purchasing the lot in my Filipina partner's name and the house in my name.
> 
> We then got our attorney to draw up a 25 years lease between us, where I pay my partner PHP 3,000 per month to lease the lot from her.
> 
> ...


Welcome to the forum Cereco and what a first posting and a mess I don't think anyone of us would want to be in, so I hope you still have a nest egg to fall upon if all goes sour. 

Hopefully you can work out the details because it's gonna get tougher to live in the Philippines and to make matters worse a long wait to come back here on a tourist visa. So far I haven't heard too many good stories from fellow expats trying to own homes on a SRRV. There's a man from the UK living on the island of Mindoro that is extremely knowledgeable with legalities and owning property here you might want to message him, his name is Sean and you can find him with search on YouTube by BADLADZ Beach & Dive Resort. :fingerscrossed:


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## Gary D (Oct 28, 2013)

Isn't buying a house then going for an SRRV putting the cart before the horse.


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## Manitoba (Jun 25, 2014)

I was always under the impression that you needed to pre-pay the complete long term lease amount up front to qualify as an SRRV lease.

Otherwise what's to stop someone from doing that, not making a deposit and then if they tire of the Philippines, just walking (or flying) away from their obligations here? If the lease is prepaid, you will lose your lease amount, if you have a deposit you will lose your deposit ( at least for a while until the lien on the lease can be lifted or the deposit released)


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## Tukaram (Dec 18, 2014)

Gary D said:


> Isn't buying a house then going for an SRRV putting the cart before the horse.


Yeah, I think so too. Everything I have seen says to go to PRA before getting a house/condo. Getting it first seems to complicate matters a lot, especially if it does not qualify.


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## bigpearl (Jan 24, 2016)

Gary D said:


> Isn't buying a house then going for an SRRV putting the cart before the horse.


Yes agree Gary and Tukaram but sometimes the house or condo come first, even years prior to the thought of a retirement visa, it's a pain in the a*rse to change title and or lease documents but doable with pesos and time.

Maybe going off track here but a 10 or 20K US deposit to secure a retirement visa? Wouldn't that money be better injected into the local economy by the retiree? Change the PRA's protocols for retirees, "must live in the country for 9 or 10 months every year" etc.
I'm sure there are many retirees that want to take advantage of the SRRV but only live on a pension and don't have a spare 10K to spend.

Only a thought.

Cheers, Steve.


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## Gary D (Oct 28, 2013)

The idea of the SRRV is that you make a long-term investment in the Philippines. If you have already made that investment what incentive does the PRA have. They would expect a further investment to fulfil their requirements.


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## bigpearl (Jan 24, 2016)

Hear you Gary but I would have thought that purchasing a property, car, motorbikes and employing contractors in PH. was a long term commitment and all I'm suggesting is perhaps further categories can be introduced to take into account different circumstances.
Also the long term investment (hiding your cash in an investment that pays pittance)? I can easily get an 8 to 10% (lol, not at the moment but historically) return which more than covers the cost of the tourist visa route with cash left over.
The "incentive" idea of the PRA is to get retirees here and inject capitol into the economy,,,,,, they still get their initial application fee as well as the annual fee, the deposit sits in a bank stagnating, is only a figure on their books that is owned by the depositor who gets little return while the banks make 2,3,4,5 or more %, they are the winners and perhaps there are kick backs, I didn't say that.

Having to go through so many hoops if you want to put that cash into property or lease for me is feasible but frustrating none the less. What of those that live here and have lived here for 10 or 20 years that are committed and survive but don't have a spare 10 or 20K?
As said it's only a thought and I'm well aware that big wheels turn slowly, sometimes not at all.
OMO.

Cheers, Steve.


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## Gary D (Oct 28, 2013)

I think the big difference is the the PRA deposit is your personal investment whereas building a house for wife or partner although your money as an investment by you is tenuous at best.


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## Manitoba (Jun 25, 2014)

bigpearl said:


> ....
> 
> Also the long term investment (hiding your cash in an investment that pays pittance)? I can easily get an 8 to 10% (lol, not at the moment but historically) return which more than covers the cost of the tourist visa route with cash left over.
> The "incentive" idea of the PRA is to get retirees here and inject capitol into the economy,,,,,, they still get their initial application fee as well as the annual fee, the deposit sits in a bank stagnating, is only a figure on their books that is owned by the depositor who gets little return while the banks make 2,3,4,5 or more %, .
> ...


I was told that there are 50,000 SRRV holders here. If the average is the 10,000 k deposit (it goes to 50,000 but there is a category at 1,500) then the total under deposit is USD500,000,000. (25 billion p) That is on long term deposit, low interest and is a huge factor in their financial health.

If anyone does not think that the few banks allowed to have this on deposit and only pay out 1% on it are not a strong lobby for keeping things the way they are now, then I have a real good deal from some untitled land for you.


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## Tukaram (Dec 18, 2014)

Manitoba said:


> I was told that there are 50,000 SRRV holders here. If the average is the 10,000 k deposit (it goes to 50,000 but there is a category at 1,500) then the total under deposit is USD500,000,000. (25 billion p) That is on long term deposit, low interest and is a huge factor in their financial health.
> 
> If anyone does not think that the few banks allowed to have this on deposit and only pay out 1% on it are not a strong lobby for keeping things the way they are now, then I have a real good deal from some untitled land for you.


But how many leave the money in the bank? Everyone I know on the SRRV bought a condo. Why leave it in the bank, when you can use it?


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## greenstreak1946 (May 28, 2017)

The SRRV SMILE VISA for active/healthy individuals needs a $20,000 deposit. that is a lot of money to let the Philippine government keep indefinitely. The CLASSIC VISA needs a $10,000 deposit but must be used for investment or long term lease.

This is what I understand.

Art


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## Manitoba (Jun 25, 2014)

greenstreak1946 said:


> The SRRV SMILE VISA for active/healthy individuals needs a $20,000 deposit. that is a lot of money to let the Philippine government keep indefinitely. The CLASSIC VISA needs a $10,000 deposit but must be used for investment or long term lease.
> 
> This is what I understand.
> 
> Art


Both the classic and smile deposits are convertible. You can put them in cash or long term lease or condo.


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## Manitoba (Jun 25, 2014)

Tukaram said:


> But how many leave the money in the bank? Everyone I know on the SRRV bought a condo. Why leave it in the bank, when you can use it?


Mine is in a deposit. I left it there because I am not sure where I want to end up living.

Even once I find a place, I may not buy/long term lease. We have talked about the difficulty in getting our cash out of the deposit when we are finished here. How much more difficult will it be to get the PRA to release the lien on the title, then to sell the property?


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## bigpearl (Jan 24, 2016)

Quid pro quo? What are you going to give me for the untitled land Rick? To take it off your hands? Good call though and a place I would never venture no different to (after my investigations) locking up the PRA deposit in property or lease. Nor against the house on the leased land. Far too difficult to secure then release and while some can afford the deposit and leave it sit there others cannot.
For me it's a no brainer for only 10K and the perks that go with it.
I was only opening up alternative cans of worms.

Cheers, Steve.


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## Manitoba (Jun 25, 2014)

bigpearl said:


> ......
> For me it's a no brainer for only 10K and the perks that go with it.
> I was only opening up alternative cans of worms.
> 
> Cheers, Steve.


I am on the 20k plan but because I have worked a couple of years and having a residential visa here made it a bullet proof case for being a non resident for tax purposes, I have saved several time the deposit.

Different circumstances, different desired outcomes, different weighting on cost vs convenience for different people.


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## greenstreak1946 (May 28, 2017)

Hey Manitoba,

Are you saying I can deposit $10,000 in cash and not buy condo or long term lease? I don't mine leaving $10,000 in a deposit but I don 't want to do $20,000. There seems to be different information on the deposit for an SRRV visa. It also seems to be what office we talk to and the person there on how they understand it.

Art


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## M.C.A. (Feb 24, 2013)

*Canadian Pension Plan*



Manitoba said:


> I am on the 20k plan but because I have worked a couple of years and having a residential visa here made it a bullet proof case for being a non resident for tax purposes, I have saved several time the deposit.
> 
> Different circumstances, different desired outcomes, different weighting on cost vs convenience for different people.


Would it be true as a Canadian citizen you spend 10 months out of the country as a pensioner you lose 25% of your pension? Not sure if that's true Rick, I had correspondence with another Canadian citizen and he stayed here over 10 months and was losing 1/4 of his pension, I don't think your at this stage yet but I'm just curious if you could still retire here with a lowered pension or other Canadians with no other jobs other than the pension.


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## bidrod (Mar 31, 2015)

greenstreak1946 said:


> Hey Manitoba,
> 
> Are you saying I can deposit $10,000 in cash and not buy condo or long term lease? I don't mine leaving $10,000 in a deposit but I don 't want to do $20,000. There seems to be different information on the deposit for an SRRV visa. It also seems to be what office we talk to and the person there on how they understand it.
> 
> Art


The following list the programs available. I am eligible for a $1500 deposit being retired US military. Heard that you can avail of that program by just having a DD Fm 214 and not being retired military, just need a pension.

Chuck 

https://pra.gov.ph/srrv/#options


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## Manitoba (Jun 25, 2014)

greenstreak1946 said:


> Hey Manitoba,
> 
> Are you saying I can deposit $10,000 in cash and not buy condo or long term lease? I don't mine leaving $10,000 in a deposit but I don 't want to do $20,000. There seems to be different information on the deposit for an SRRV visa. It also seems to be what office we talk to and the person there on how they understand it.
> 
> Art


Yes if you are over age 55 and have a lifetime pension income greater than $US1,000 per month (1,200 with dependents) and have it direct deposited to a Philippine bank ( not 100% sure about the local bank requirement).

I had to go the $20k route since my funds are in an retirement savings account not a pension and I did not want to purchase an annuity. Now that I will qualify for the Canadian government pensions I am close and may consider switching over after buying a small annuity. However it may require a second 1400 application fee which would make it not worth doing.,


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## cereco (Nov 1, 2010)

Hey_Joe said:


> Regarding: I paid PHP 3.45 million for the house alone.
> 
> Who paid for the lot and how much was it?
> 
> ...


I paid for the lot - PHP 1.85 million - but via my partner's BDO account.

I paid for the house direct to the developer.

We did it this way specifically to apply for a PRA visa and prove I had invested in a property.


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## cereco (Nov 1, 2010)

Tukaram said:


> Yeah, I think so too. Everything I have seen says to go to PRA before getting a house/condo. Getting it first seems to complicate matters a lot, especially if it does not qualify.


Having a decent house with my partner is more important than the retirement visa. 

Exiting every 60 days or paying for a visa extension is irritating, but better than losing $10,000.


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## Manitoba (Jun 25, 2014)

cereco said:


> Having a decent house with my partner is more important than the retirement visa.
> 
> Exiting every 60 days or paying for a visa extension is irritating, but better than losing $10,000.


The money is not lost, it is either invested in a property/lease or is in a term deposit. I am getting 1% on my amount but lose 30% of that in Philippine taxes. You (or your estate) gets it back.

If you do not have a place picked out to stay or even where you want to live, investing in property is not a wise move.

For my deposit I get 3 years no immigration hassle, none at all. I can come and go as much as I like (outside of the virus). The annual amount is close to the tourist visa extension and much less than leaving the country every 60 days. That strategy could have backfired with the virus if someone was outside the country when the lock down happened. 

(A friend on a BB visa was stick in Singapore for 63 days waiting space on a flight back to Manila, a tourist visa would still be there.)

There are different ways for different people and different people view the investment of $10k or in my case $20k l differently. No one size fits all solution.


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## bigpearl (Jan 24, 2016)

Exactly Rick, individuals need to do their homework very well and decide what suits them. I remember 5 or 6 years ago looking at the PRA site and thinking this looks great but to get all the info was not easy both legal and fine print has taken a lot of research of the ramifications of a chosen path, gleaned mostly from expat sites and the members personal experiences, (followed up with comms to the PRA) invaluable and has probably saved heartache for many, myself included. As said before I will wait until I decide to draw on my superannuation then apply for the SRRV with a 10K deposit because the ramifications firstly for myself with legal costs and time to encumber the lease and improvements on the property and then when I kick the bucket the reversal of the same.
I might think differently if I had to visit Intromuros every 59 days though, here in SFC immi is easy. Like you have done Rick, a decision was made after a hell of a lot of research to secure your needs for the future as I have done, beaten it to death in fact, all circumstances are different.

Cheers, Steve.


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## Scott E (Jun 1, 2015)

cereco said:


> In 2017, I bought a new house and lot for cash, purchasing the lot in my Filipina partner's name and the house in my name.
> 
> We then got our attorney to draw up a 25 years lease between us, where I pay my partner PHP 3,000 per month to lease the lot from her.
> 
> ...


Sir ,, I did inquire at a PRA oofice to ask about leasing property, as you have done with your wife as the lesse. In my case I asked if I could "Lease from my SON", he is a Philipino citizen being born here.
Their response was that it is not allowable to lease from a Family member ,, It must be a "Third Party" one is leasing from. Needless to say but that is NOT an option for me as I don't want to give away money, I would rather my Son inherit it all !!


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## Gary D (Oct 28, 2013)

Scott E said:


> Sir ,, I did inquire at a PRA oofice to ask about leasing property, as you have done with your wife as the lesse. In my case I asked if I could "Lease from my SON", he is a Philipino citizen being born here.
> Their response was that it is not allowable to lease from a Family member ,, It must be a "Third Party" one is leasing from. Needless to say but that is NOT an option for me as I don't want to give away money, I would rather my Son inherit it all !!


Property owned in the Philippines by your wife is considered conjugal property so trying the lease from your wife is like leasing from yourself. Beware of shyster lawyers they abound in the Philippines.


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## Scott E (Jun 1, 2015)

Gary D said:


> Property owned in the Philippines by your wife is considered conjugal property so trying the lease from your wife is like leasing from yourself. Beware of shyster lawyers they abound in the Philippines.


Shyster Extrodinaires


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