# Is Mexico no longer your choice



## kimo (Feb 12, 2011)

WOW! I just found out about the new financial requirements for moving to Mexico to retire. What is the Mexican gov't thinking? do they not want our money, and all the money from family and friends that would come to visit us. Even though we would own our home, we will no longer be able to qualify based on the monthly income requirements. For us it's seriously time to look for a country that welcomes expats from nob, like Ecuador and Panama. Is anyone else who was thinking of retiring to Mexico in the same boat, if so, where are you now considering?
Salinas, here we come!


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## FHBOY (Jun 15, 2010)

*The Big "OR" of the New Rules*



kimo said:


> WOW! I just found out about the new financial requirements for moving to Mexico to retire. What is the Mexican gov't thinking? do they not want our money, and all the money from family and friends that would come to visit us. Even though we would own our home, we will no longer be able to qualify based on the monthly income requirements. For us it's seriously time to look for a country that welcomes expats from nob, like Ecuador and Panama. Is anyone else who was thinking of retiring to Mexico in the same boat, if so, where are you now considering?
> Salinas, here we come!


Every one is free to go where they want. Panama and Ecuador were not our choice, too far away from the USA, and pretty expensive now (at least Panama is).

But, under the new requirements there is a big "OR" clause. That is the minimum monthly as you stated OR proof of investments in Canada, in your case, of over (I forgot...it's been a while). Check it out. That "OR" is a really big loophole and once you qualify for a Permanente under that clause, you won't have to go thru the process again. SWMBO, as a spouse, had a reduced financial qualification both for monthly income OR investment amount and came in as a Temporada, but will be switched, automatically after four years to Permanente.


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## vantexan (Sep 4, 2011)

FHBOY said:


> Every one is free to go where they want. Panama and Ecuador were not our choice, too far away from the USA, and pretty expensive now (at least Panama is).
> 
> But, under the new requirements there is a big "OR" clause. That is the minimum monthly as you stated OR proof of investments in Canada, in your case, of over (I forgot...it's been a while). Check it out. That "OR" is a really big loophole and once you qualify for a Permanente under that clause, you won't have to go thru the process again. SWMBO, as a spouse, had a reduced financial qualification both for monthly income OR investment amount and came in as a Temporada, but will be switched, automatically after four years to Permanente.


So in other words if one doesn't have enough money there may be a workaround, but would still require assets many don't have, or may possibly be a loophole that's closed in the future. That leaves many of us out or hanging by a thread. Far different from the straightforward and easy qualifications some countries offer. I'll take my chances with tourist cards and if need be spend part of the year elsewhere. Ran into an old friend on Facebook, and she's willing but wants to be close enough to her grown kids to fly home quickly and inexpensively. Figures Mexico came up with this just as my situation took a nice turn!


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## RVGRINGO (May 16, 2007)

Vantexan,
You are missing the point: If you have enough to consider buying a home, you can probably qualify for at least a Residente Temporal; if not Residente Permanente. Then, after 4 years, you would automatically change to Residente Permanente without the need to prove anything other than your address. Once in that status, a spouse can also qualify for the same status.


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## mes1952 (Dec 11, 2012)

Mexico is still much cheaper (and immigration easier) than most other countries esp. compared to those such as Ecuador and Panama which are pegged on the U.S. dollar and always more expensive.
Even with the new immigration requirements, many Americans who can't afford to live in the U.S. anyway (esp. California) will simply go across the border to Baja where immigration requirements are almost non-existent esp. if you stay in the Tijuana area.
Even if someone has to return to the U.S. or another bordering country it is still easier than living somewhere that requires you to travel by plane. The border area of Tijuana has already experienced an marked increase of Californians living there as the California economy continues to falter. Many of those Americans don't have the financial resources to live in another part of Mexico that requires frequent travel so they will stay in the border area.


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## gringotim (Jan 5, 2011)

Ya, Mexico dropped the ball on this one, but we had already decided last year that Mexico was delegated to being our second choice, at that time, mainly due to the rising costs of everything, especially property, and then after going there to check things out, decided Ecuador is now #1, but only the coast, as we want ocean front, just show me an ocean front, brand new, high floor condo anywhere on Mexico's west coast for $100k or less, the income and or investment requirements (US $25k) are about the lowest I have seen, and property costs are that of Mexico's west coast 10 years ago. Sure, its takes longer and cost more to get there, but then that just means less visitors who just want a free place to stay at our expense. But hey, that's just us.


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## vantexan (Sep 4, 2011)

RVGRINGO said:


> Vantexan,
> You are missing the point: If you have enough to consider buying a home, you can probably qualify for at least a Residente Temporal; if not Residente Permanente. Then, after 4 years, you would automatically change to Residente Permanente without the need to prove anything other than your address. Once in that status, a spouse can also qualify for the same status.


If I had enough to buy a home most likely I'd qualify under the new rules anyways. My pension would have qualified me under the old rules. And the areas popular with expats tend to have expensive real estate. I'm better off renting and having the flexibility to leave if it doesn't suit me.


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## vantexan (Sep 4, 2011)

mes1952 said:


> Mexico is still much cheaper (and immigration easier) than most other countries esp. compared to those such as Ecuador and Panama which are pegged on the U.S. dollar and always more expensive.
> Even with the new immigration requirements, many Americans who can't afford to live in the U.S. anyway (esp. California) will simply go across the border to Baja where immigration requirements are almost non-existent esp. if you stay in the Tijuana area.
> Even if someone has to return to the U.S. or another bordering country it is still easier than living somewhere that requires you to travel by plane. The border area of Tijuana has already experienced an marked increase of Californians living there as the California economy continues to falter. Many of those Americans don't have the financial resources to live in another part of Mexico that requires frequent travel so they will stay in the border area.


Panama is certainly on the expensive side but Ecuador is very reasonable with an exception or two. Mexico isn't still much cheaper than most other countries, but it is convenient to the States with alot of choice in locales and ever improving infrastructure. Rosarito is great if you are from that part of the States but if from the East you probably could get home much cheaper using Spirit or other airlines through Cancun.


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## mes1952 (Dec 11, 2012)

The main reason AMERICANS emigrate to the Tijuana/Baja Norte area is that they can work in the San Diego area or they have relatives in California. 
The question of the cost of living depends primarily on whether you integrate into the culture or you continue to live the American lifestyle buying American products or catering to American stores (which will be expensive anywhere you live). I've been to Eucador years ago and it was expensive when I went so I doubt it has changed much; probably become more expensive as more Americans have moved there. If you check any country that is pegged on the U.S. dollar prices are always higher.


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## mes1952 (Dec 11, 2012)

vantexan said:


> If I had enough to buy a home most likely I'd qualify under the new rules anyways. My pension would have qualified me under the old rules. And the areas popular with expats tend to have expensive real estate. I'm better off renting and having the flexibility to leave if it doesn't suit me.


I totally agree and you will find this the norm with future expats as most of them (due to the U.S. economy) can't afford to buy the high-end American properties. Also the younger generations are more mobile and don't want to be tied down to living in one area.


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## vantexan (Sep 4, 2011)

mes1952 said:


> The main reason AMERICANS emigrate to the Tijuana/Baja Norte area is that they can work in the San Diego area or they have relatives in California.
> The question of the cost of living depends primarily on whether you integrate into the culture or you continue to live the American lifestyle buying American products or catering to American stores (which will be expensive anywhere you live). I've been to Eucador years ago and it was expensive when I went so I doubt it has changed much; probably become more expensive as more Americans have moved there. If you check any country that is pegged on the U.S. dollar prices are always higher.


A couple can live very decently in Ecuador on $1000 a month and very well on $1500. One can certainly spend more and some areas have gotten out of kilter like Vilcabamba. Ecuador has 15 million people and with the exception of Vilcabamba and Cuenca there aren't expats in sufficient numbers to affect much. The biggest problem being seen is primarily ****** real estate agents selling properties to uninformed new arrivals for much more than what Ecuadoreans would pay. Ecuador is an OPEC member and gas currently sells at $1.58 a gallon and has been for years. Residency for retirees requires $900 a month income if I remember right plus $100 per dependent. Costa Rica, on the other hand, has hundreds of thousands of expats(from all over the world) in a country of 3.5 million and prices are through the roof. Panama isn't cheap either, but like Ecuador they offer discounts on many things to seniors. Biggest problem with Panama IMO is where there's sufficient infrastructure it's boiling hot while the main expat town, Boquete, is small and a bit isolated.


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## kimo (Feb 12, 2011)

RVGRINGO said:


> Vantexan,
> You are missing the point: If you have enough to consider buying a home, you can probably qualify for at least a Residente Temporal; if not Residente Permanente. Then, after 4 years, you would automatically change to Residente Permanente without the need to prove anything other than your address. Once in that status, a spouse can also qualify for the same status.


Not that it will change our minds, but for others in similar situation, if we sink $200k, (U.S.$) into an ocean front condo, and have a combined pension of $1800, a month, in your opinion, under the new rules, would we qualify?. Based on what I have read, doesn't look like it, but perhaps I missed something. We won't have larger pensions until 2020, and that's only if they don't change the rules.


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## RVGRINGO (May 16, 2007)

Check with the nearest Mexican consulate to see if the $200,000+ in the bank will get you at least a Residente Temporal, with or without the pension. The details are currently quite fuzzy but beginning to settle down a bit. So, giving you hard figures from here is hard to do, but I think that amount will, at least, get one of you a visa. If the other had to qualify in a different manner or even do the 180 day dance for a while, it might work for you. 
My best guess is that about $130,000 in the bank might get you a Residente Permanente. You could enter on that, with your wife coming as a tourist on a 180 day FMM tourist permit. Then, once your RP is finalized in Mexico, with your Mexican address, she could apply for RP as the spouse of an RP ..... I think.


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

kimo said:


> Not that it will change our minds, but for others in similar situation, if we sink $200k, (U.S.$) into an ocean front condo, and have a combined pension of $1800, a month, in your opinion, under the new rules, would we qualify?. Based on what I have read, doesn't look like it, but perhaps I missed something. We won't have larger pensions until 2020, and that's only if they don't change the rules.


The current rules discuss assets, like $200,000 in the bank or investments, and income. They do not mention ownership of property in Mexico. So you might be better off applying while you have the cash before sinking it into a property.


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## FHBOY (Jun 15, 2010)

TundraGreen said:


> The current rules discuss assets, like $200,000 in the bank or investments, and income. They do not mention ownership of property in Mexico. So you might be better off applying while you have the cash before sinking it into a property.


Absolutely correct! They are not looking to see what you MAY invest in Mexico, they are looking for what you HAVE invested in your home country. If you have a pension of any type, and have worked for many years, you should have an adequate one. Mexico does not care if it is, what we int he USA call, and IRA, a 401K or a 403B, they just want to look at dollars, USA or Canadian.

By all means, take everything we say here, including what I say, with a grain of salt...the only true answer lies at your local Mexican Consulate...go there.

Also, I agree with TG - don't buy anything here when and if you move here. Rent first!!! I cannot over-emphasize this...you do not know, from the net, from short visits, vacations, even from on-site real estate professionals (who do not have to be licensed, I am told) etc where you will be buying. I have found, being a newbie renter myself, that several of the places we were looking at were not what we thought they'd be. Now as long term renters, we have more time to look.

You can love Mexico as we do, but be very careful...moving here is a life changing decision, take your time (it took us three years to nail it down)


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## Longford (May 25, 2012)

Mexico may seem to have become less friendly to expat retirees ... but maybe that applies only to expats whose only interest in Mexico was they thought it was "cheaper." I believe there are too many 'dead beat' expats in Mexico, or expats who have trouble finding two dimes to rub together on a good day for whom some of the Mexican social welfare programs were also attractive. Mexico has done what other countries are doing ... raising the bar. It wants a better quality foreign immigrant than what some might call the 'bottom feeders.' The new requirements can be met by millions of Canadian and USA expats who may look for someplace other than 'home' as a retirement location. I'm not certain what Canada requires of expats seeking to retire there, but my understanding is that it can take up to 3 years to walk through all of the red tape ... and my own experience has been, and that of many of my family members who though born in the USA are now legally Canadian ... the immigration folks in Canada have been some of the worst in the World to deal with. To each his/her own preference. Mexico isn't advertising for expats.


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

Longford said:


> Mexico may seem to have become less friendly to expat retirees ... but maybe that applies only to expats whose only interest in Mexico was they thought it was "cheaper." I believe there are too many 'dead beat' expats in Mexico, or expats who have trouble finding two dimes to rub together on a good day for whom some of the Mexican social welfare programs were also attractive. …


What evidence do you have to support that statement? I have been here for 6 years and the only non-mexicans I have seen that might qualify as "dead beats" are a few young kids with no money living on the street. It seems unlikely to me that they were applying for visas or social programs or anything except begging for coins.


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## DennyDaddy (May 3, 2011)

I do not know about other parts of Mexico...but I just re-newed my Mex visa, old called FM 2 and got 2 years on my new one.

Just signed the paperwork, gave new fingerprints and was not asked to show any bank or other income statements here at Rocky Point.

The other thing tho...I'm 
in the process of a bank trust, and dam it....the totol price doubled to 10 grand now to get a bank trust.

There getting us from all angles now.

DD


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## vantexan (Sep 4, 2011)

Longford said:


> Mexico may seem to have become less friendly to expat retirees ... but maybe that applies only to expats whose only interest in Mexico was they thought it was "cheaper." I believe there are too many 'dead beat' expats in Mexico, or expats who have trouble finding two dimes to rub together on a good day for whom some of the Mexican social welfare programs were also attractive. Mexico has done what other countries are doing ... raising the bar. It wants a better quality foreign immigrant than what some might call the 'bottom feeders.' The new requirements can be met by millions of Canadian and USA expats who may look for someplace other than 'home' as a retirement location. I'm not certain what Canada requires of expats seeking to retire there, but my understanding is that it can take up to 3 years to walk through all of the red tape ... and my own experience has been, and that of many of my family members who though born in the USA are now legally Canadian ... the immigration folks in Canada have been some of the worst in the World to deal with. To each his/her own preference. Mexico isn't advertising for expats.


Well sir, I work for a major corporation, one that everyone knows, that promised us if we put in the time we'd get X amount, and spelled out in a mailing every year what each of us would get based on time served and expected future earnings. Turns out they were stringing us along while they built up a more profitable division. And they held our pay progression to a trickle and terminated our pension plan in order to have the money to build up that other division. So now I'm getting a much smaller pension and don't make enough to save a decent amount. And being older with health issues in a bad economy precludes leaving them until I retire. Not everyone who doesn't have enough are lowlife bottom feeders. And I took transfers to 3 cities on the border because I was totally enamored with Mexico and wanted to learn everything possible about it. What I have learned is that Mexico has it's pluses and minuses, and it's not the only country on Earth worth considering. And I have learned that some expats seem to demand that you must be 100% into all things Mexican to be deemed worthy of living there. As long as Mexico allows me to stay 6 months on a tourist card and renew it at the border I will most likely take them up on it. If THEY decide I'm a bottom feeder that they don't want I'll gladly move on. But if my living here on tourist cards rankles some expats then I consider that a nice bonus.


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## mes1952 (Dec 11, 2012)

I think expats living far far south of the border will be surprised as to how many expats don't even have a tourist card and never have had one. Since the majority of people on this board are not living near the border, they are unaware of the differences. I have been in Mexico living in Tijuana and Rosarito for 2 years+ and met few Americans who have tourist cards...the reality is that no one cares about it here. Perhaps in other parts it might be different but not here. I think the border areas are more interested in getting U.S. dollars into the economy rather than worrying about tourist cards and other things. And yes there are many "dead beats" living here at the border towns (thanks to the continuing crumbling U.S. economy) who simply can't afford to live in the U.S. anymore and if they are working they usually have a 20-hour (or less) work week. Not every expat who lives in Mexico or other countries follow the letter of the law of that country just as is the case in the U.S.


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## Guategringo (Nov 9, 2012)

Longford said:


> Mexico may seem to have become less friendly to expat retirees ... but maybe that applies only to expats whose only interest in Mexico was they thought it was "cheaper." I believe there are too many 'dead beat' expats in Mexico, or expats who have trouble finding two dimes to rub together on a good day for whom some of the Mexican social welfare programs were also attractive. Mexico has done what other countries are doing ... raising the bar. It wants a better quality foreign immigrant than what some might call the 'bottom feeders.' QUOTE]
> 
> Bottom feeders? The vast majority of expats who move to Mexico or other Latin American countries do so for two reasons - living is overall much less expensive and because it is easily accessible. Just because people have accumulated less social security, 401K monies, or any other forms of pensions or retirement income does not make them "bottom feeders." Dead Beat expats who are they? Ones that do not follow the same course of life as you? Those who decide that less is better than more? Mexico has made a HUGE error by raising the so-called bar and will see their errors in judgment in five, 10 or more years. Countries such as Ecuador, Nicaragua, Panama, Guatemala and Colombia are still very easy to qualify for permanant residency. All offer good and bad, but such is life anywhere you live.
> 
> My brother just purchased a property on the Pacific coast in Zihuatanejo. Beautiful two bedroom place off the beach for US$80,000. His income as a retiree is just US$2,000 per month and he has private health insurance from Cigna that takes a nice chunk of that.. is he a bottom feeder in your opinion or someone who had huge medical expenses due to a wife with lung cancer that caused him to spend hundred of thousands of dollars of his retirement money to try to save her. EVERYONE COMES FROM DIFFERENT CIRCUMSTANCES and just because they have less does not make them any less than someone else. Don't judge unless you have walked in their shoes.


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## AlanMexicali (Jun 1, 2011)

Guategringo said:


> Longford said:
> 
> 
> > Mexico may seem to have become less friendly to expat retirees ... but maybe that applies only to expats whose only interest in Mexico was they thought it was "cheaper." I believe there are too many 'dead beat' expats in Mexico, or expats who have trouble finding two dimes to rub together on a good day for whom some of the Mexican social welfare programs were also attractive. Mexico has done what other countries are doing ... raising the bar. It wants a better quality foreign immigrant than what some might call the 'bottom feeders.' QUOTE]
> ...


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## FHBOY (Jun 15, 2010)

Longford said:


> Mexico may seem to have become less friendly to expat retirees ... but maybe that applies only to expats whose only interest in Mexico was they thought it was "cheaper." I believe there are too many 'dead beat' expats in Mexico, or expats who have trouble finding two dimes to rub together on a good day for whom some of the Mexican social welfare programs were also attractive. ...Mexico isn't advertising for expats.


I finally found something on this board that is offensive. Note I said "something" not "someone" for we have had dialogs over the years and I know that this poster is sincere in his opinions and I hold no grudge for someone having an opinion.

Living in Chicago and observing is one thing, living in Mexico and experiencing is another. No one I have met in my four months here would qualify under the terms of this post. There are levels of income, true, some are richer than others, some are more budget conscious, but no one, at least here in Chapala/Ajijic is a deadbeat. The retirees here, like me, worked hard all their lives and probably would have accumulated more wealth had not successive administration, especially the last one, destroyed the economy. But we all worked hard, accumulated what we could, and then found that it may not have been enough to live the way we wanted to in the USA. Others I've met have a house here, a house in the USA, a home in Portugal...you get the picture. But no one I've met is a deadbeat, living off the dole.

And those who are expats and not retired are working here, opening businesses, contributing in many ways...no one I have seen here is asking anyone for anything. And this includes not only USAers and Canadians, but the French, Brits, Moroccans, Egyptians, Chinese and others. There are not only USAers and Canadians who live here.

BTW, that "dole" is not as easy to get as one may imagine. IMSS, the national health plan is tightening up their standards, they've had to.

So, yes, I do resent the opinion, but not the person expressing it. Where we all choose to live our lives, how we all choose to live our lives is an individual choice based on personal factors, not subject to an outside "right or wrong" review.

Deadbeats, free loaders? - hardly we expats in Mexico are vital and contribute to the economy of our adopted home. And yes it is too bad that the USA did not afford a so many of us the opportunity that we have found here.


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## CanGuy78 (Mar 17, 2013)

RVGRINGO said:


> Vantexan,
> You are missing the point: If you have enough to consider buying a home, you can probably qualify for at least a Residente Temporal; if not Residente Permanente. Then, after 4 years, you would automatically change to Residente Permanente without the need to prove anything other than your address. Once in that status, a spouse can also qualify for the same status.


I'm glad I read this thread.

Do I understand you correctly that after 4 years on temporal we can automatically convert to permanente now without any other requirements?


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## Longford (May 25, 2012)

Resent a portion of the opinion some of you may. Fine. I suspect that's because it hits a nerve that reveals more truth in what I've said ... than not.


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## circle110 (Jul 20, 2009)

Longford, I frequently agree with your posts and your line of thinking, but this isn't one of those times. And my nerves weren't touched since I comfortably meet the requirements for residency.

Plus, that Yoda grammar in the last post is a little weird.


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## Guategringo (Nov 9, 2012)

circle110 said:


> Longford, I frequently agree with your posts and your line of thinking, but this isn't one of those times.QUOTE]
> 
> I on the other hand disagree with Longford on many issues discussed on the forum, but that makes for much better discussions.
> 
> ...


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## joaquinx (Jul 3, 2010)

Guategringo said:


> Everyone deserves to be treated with dignity and to broadly classify these people in Mexico as deadbeats without knowing them or even living in the country is disrespectful and a disgrace.



I believe that Longford said *many* and not *all*. And there are a few expats who try to suck up every free service that Mexico offers and then complain about the fact that "it's not like this in the States."


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## Souper (Nov 2, 2011)

So, I've gone back to reread Longford's original post a few times.

Can't speak for his intent, but he says _"I believe there are too many 'dead beat' expats in Mexico, or expats who have trouble finding two dimes to rub together on a good day for whom some of the Mexican social welfare programs were also attractive."_ 

I've met a few foreigners who match this description, not every foreigner, mind you, only a few, but some who think they can make it work with no income, or work under the table from time to time. The OP didn't say everyone in a lower income is a deadbeat, so I don't find the post offensive, just remarking that maybe Mexico doesn't want immigrants who are not self sufficient.


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## mickisue1 (Mar 10, 2012)

Longford said:


> Resent a portion of the opinion some of you may. Fine. I suspect that's because it hits a nerve that reveals more truth in what I've said ... than not.


Longford, I don't yet live in MX. My husband and I will easily qualify for the new requirements, and I can understand the POV of MX in enacting them. Many other countries are doing the same.

But to characterize a group of people who are trying to do as much as they can to ensure a rich and rewarding retirement on less income as "deadbeats" is offensive on the face of it.

Not everyone had the benefit of affording higher education. Not everyone had the benefit of the intelligence or training to successfully pursue higher education, and many of those who did chose careers that were less rewarding monetarily, and more rewarding psychologically.

Some of the retirees are women who, living the life that was expected of them in the 50's and 60's, stayed home, raised kids, and found themselves, at 60 or 70 or even 80, divorced, with a greatly reduced income. Even more are widows or widowers, whose lives and incomes have been impacted by the loss of their spouse.

Not one of these people is a deadbeat. Not one of them chose MX because they thought they could pull a fast one on the government or their neighbors. They chose it because they wanted a good life, and the cost of living and, especially, health care in the US has priced that entirely out of their reach.

As for Ecuador. It is a beautiful place. But the glowing pictures in International Living hide some hard truths. If you think that casual crime is a challenge in MX, it's an ever present issue for the people I know who live in Ecuador.

The Mexican government may not be as welcoming as it was a year ago to newcomers with low incomes, but you can deal with it. Ecuador's rules are both more stringent and more difficult to navigate. Hiring someone to help you with your immigration is a good idea in MX. It's a necessity in Ecuador.

The infrastructure is nearly non-existent, so don't expect those household goods you spent several thousands of dollars sending down by ship to arrive anytime soon and DO expect that you will be paying considerably more than you had planned to rescue them, once they do arrive.

Life has tradeoffs. There are many who live good lives in Ecuador. But they have had to wind their way through a lot of cultural and governmental thickets to arrive there.


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## Guategringo (Nov 9, 2012)

joaquinx said:


> I believe that Longford said *many* and not *all*. And there are a few expats who try to suck up every free service that Mexico offers and then complain about the fact that "it's not like this in the States."


A "few" exist in every society, but I respect your point of view joaquinx even though I disagree. 

What is wrong with taking advantage of "free services?" I do not think Longford was referring to those. 

In the U.S. many "seniors" take advantage of early bird specials, AARP discounts, etc., etc does that make them bottom feeders? No, not all all. 

There are always those that complain about things. Can you honesty say joaquinx that you have NEVER said to yourself or someone else "its not like this in the states" maybe because you have been in Mexico for a long time you have not, but maybe you have forgotten when you did say that since it was so long ago and the mind tends to be everyone's own worst enemy.


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## mes1952 (Dec 11, 2012)

I totally agree with you. I rarely read International Living as it is definitely gearded towards the few Americans with hefty retirement income...and not for the babyboomer American who will probably be surviving primarily on Social Security. This is a problem with most of these expat sites esp. the commercial ones like International Living...they rarely tell 100% of the facts. With the newer crop of babyboomers coming into retirement there is definitely going to be a disconnect between them and the already retired babyboomers with more $$$. And that gap will certainly widen as more Americans are forced into early retirement due to nonexistent employment opportunities in the U.S. and many of them will have no choice but to move to another country (and likely it will be Mexico).


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## RVGRINGO (May 16, 2007)

It is even worse than that!
Newbies fail to recognize that they will retire on a fixed income which will shrink rapidly over the next decade and beyond. The job you are leaving probably pays fairly well and your social security and pension are based on that number.
Now, consider the person who retired 15 years ago from a similar job, paying about 35% of what you are being paid. That retiree is still getting a pension and SS based on the much lower salary. At the same time, that older retiree is finding himself in need of medical care and even serious hospitalization more and more often.
Oh yes; that older retiree was often from an era when only the husband worked. Therefore, his wife has no pension at all and maybe a monthly SS income of $5-$600, if any at all.
That can force one to be rather thrifty, and I am one of them. No, we do not use SP or IMSS and we pay our own way in all respects. Yes, we do take the INAPAM discount at the farmacia, etc.
Your turn may come; unless you die soon after retirement, as folks did not too long ago. Now, modern medicine can extend your life into pauperism. Welcome to the real world of retirement, where even your ace in the hole; your home, no longer has that life-saving value that you planned upon.


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## Longford (May 25, 2012)

mickisue1 said:


> But to characterize a group of people who are trying to do as much as they can to ensure a rich and rewarding retirement on less income as "deadbeats" is offensive on the face of it.


1. You either haven't read my comments which have offended you, or don't comprehend what I wrote. 

2. Considering that you've yet to move to Mexico (and even if you'd already arrived ... say, even just 4 months ago), I find it remarkable that you are so very familiar with and knowledgeable about the 1 million expats that you feel comfortable providing references for and/or speaking on their behalf of. Truly remarkable. 

3. People often engage in self-definition of whom they are. I can't do anything about that. Obviously, there are several people engaged in this discussion whom, it appear to me, believe the "deadbeat" reference is directed toward them (  ). I can't do anything about that, either. Not without knowing them better.

Enjoy the day! :wink:


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## AlanMexicali (Jun 1, 2011)

Longford said:


> 1. You either haven't read my comments which have offended you, or don't comprehend what I wrote.
> 
> 2. Considering that you've yet to move to Mexico (and even if you'd already arrived ... say, even just 4 months ago), I find it remarkable that you are so very familiar with and knowledgeable about the 1 million expats that you feel comfortable providing references for and/or speaking on their behalf of. Truly remarkable.
> 
> ...


There may be "someone" here doing psychological projection also, nothing I can do about that. :boxing:


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## FHBOY (Jun 15, 2010)

Longford said:


> 1. You either haven't read my comments which have offended you, or don't comprehend what I wrote.
> 
> 2. Considering that you've yet to move to Mexico (and even if you'd already arrived ... say, even just 4 months ago), I find it remarkable that you are so very familiar with and knowledgeable about the 1 million expats that you feel comfortable providing references for and/or speaking on their behalf of. Truly remarkable.
> 
> ...


1. If mis-comprehension is the problem, then perhaps a fuller exposition was the solution, but then that is not an issue, in written communication we lose connotative qualities and it is more open to misinterpretation. Face-to-face your exposition would have probably made your point better. C'est la vive!

2. Since this was aimed primarily at me [eg: the four month reference], I do not agree it is fair. My exposition was clear...I spoke of the people I have met, not of the million or so expats in Mexico I have not, just as you speak for only you and the people you know, and not for the millions of USAers you do not. This forum is not for personal attacks, and I construed your last post as one. I am sure you did not have that intention. 

As it has been said before, there are people looking for what you would call a handout, legit or not, in any social group (and corporate groups I may add), so let's not speak of minorities, let's rather talk of the majority of people who live by the rules, take the responsibility of their own actions, work(ed) hard and want to live a decent life. Focusing on the few that is perceived is just wrong.

3. As to your assertion that many on this forum has taken this personally, I find that to be an insult to us. We, at least I, do not take comments like yours personally, in most cases, and attempt to convey an even handed objective opinion, not one attacking the opinion maker. I even did this with you: your opinion was what I objected to, not to you. To say what you did in your #3 above, crosses that line. You do not know me, you do not know any of us, so such rhetoric is out of bounds, and lessens your credibility in debate.

[Talk about deadbeats - Just to stir up your pot a little, check out the article in today's New York Times about the new corporate free loaders and deadbeats, trying to use the REIT to avoid being decent corporate citizens, paying their fair share for the bounty the USA has afforded them and leaving the vast majority holding the short end of the stick - again - end of political message]

I would suggest to the Moderator that this thread has
1. Gone off track
2. Gotten too personal
and I suggest we close it here and go back to being the good citizens of The Forum we all can and should be.


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## Longford (May 25, 2012)

It seems to me that the conversation has been, if anything ... on topic. That some people are uncomfortable with the comments of others ... well, we can always pass it by. Rules of the forum prevent me from adequately responding to the comment that the discussion has become "too personal." I will only repeat what I've said ... that we each have the opportunity to refrain from posting comments, and to move-on to something else if we like. Censorship of a discussion or locking it from further participants seems a bit harsh/exreme to me.


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

FHBOY said:


> …
> I would suggest to the Moderator that this thread has
> 1. Gone off track
> 2. Gotten too personal
> and I suggest we close it here and go back to being the good citizens of The Forum we all can and should be.


Agreed. If anyone would like to continue the discussion of the topic that is the title of this thread, please start a new thread.


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