# Cyprus 20 Years Later....



## Josh1976 (Jul 5, 2013)

Hi, my names Josh, live in the UK, don't plan on moving to Cyprus anytime soon, I am 37, but thought I'd drop a post in! Hope it's not too offensive, but a general view on Cyprus from a visitor! 

I visited Cyprus last September 2012, with the last time being in 1992 when I was 16. Up until the age of 16, I had been twice (sometimes three times a year) a year since I was a small baby.

Naturally when you turn 16, it's the last time you holiday with folks, as you hit that age and start developing, and for the next 10-20 years you live your own life! Now I'm nearing 40, it deems on you your folks are getting old, there isn't going to be many more years they are around (in good health), so you come back into the fold and start spending more time with them. So last year; when they suggested my partner and I come to Cyprus for 3-weeks with them I agreed! 

They prefer Paphos/West side of the island, I have been all over including TRNC (which to be honest I preferred). 

I wont go too deeply into "how nothing changes with the cypriots" - 1980's til now..........

* lack of planning/urban development so houses built everywhere, nothing finished (nothing was ever finished in the 1980's) I think it's as bad a spain now.

* every piece of scrubland is a building plot that "I sell you" .......back in the 80's they were 5k each, now they want 50k!

* Cypriots almost build palaces on their bit of scrub land, but then use the garden to dump all their rubbish and old cars, so it resembles steptoes yard. Why do they do this!!!

* Cypriots needing 15 dogs, tieing them up and letting them bark all night long.

* Everyone's a cousin, brother, uncle and no matter how far people live apart - they all seem to know each other. 

Anyway, the real purpose to my post is Cyprus Property, and how over priced it still is "considering".

I am lucky in as much as I have been relatively successful in the UK in property, have developed/refurbed and made some decent money from that, and with working hard with a full time job, and some good luck, and not wasting money, I managed to pay my mortgage off on my fairly decent house, own another, and have some decent savings. 

The reason I have mentioned this is because knowing the state of the EU countries - especially Cyprus, and the recession; the thought actually crossed my mind when visiting last September that I might pick up a property on the cheap in readiness for it to bounce back in later years.

But how surprised I was. Everything I looked at seemed so over-priced- And I think it's being artificially kept that way. I actually think since the crash, there are better property bargains in the UK than Cyprus! A 2 bed apartment was still 100k, a 2 bed villa 200k and so on. 

Without being rude, whilst many people consider Cyprus is developed nation; it's not overly. It isn't "westernised" and up to UK standards by a long shot. This coupled with no jobs, wages much lower, building plots are plenty (uk land cost so high as much stricter planning), construction methods in Cyprus miles cheaper than UK house (no real part L regs), no 10k wet heating systems, hollow concrete block, slap the render on the side, chuck a load of rusty steel in, and then more concrete, then plumb up a bathroom, tile everything, and not landscape, then no way should the villa's in Cyprus be more expensive than UK property! It just doesn't make sense?

This coupled with the fact of the Cyprus scandal of developers not handing over deeds and using the land to borrow from the bank (as they did in the 80's), then prices everywhere else are dictated by "supply and demand", and certainly Cyprus has too much supply and pretty much no demand. So how can property still be at a premium? Whereas UK, Spain, Ireland and all the other "broke nations" (and lets face it Cyprus is broke) have dropped significantly. Cyprus property should n all honesty be cheaper than the Spanish.

In conclusion though, I had a nice relaxing time, one ex-pat did tell me typical Cypriots "when the tourism halved in 2008/2009, the Cypriots just doubled the prices to compensate, which drove the other half away"

I would say that I didn't find much to do in Paphos of a night time, unless you want to sit in taverna's and drink all night. 

I am not sure if the ex-pats find it a little boring living there. Whilst the sun is nice, all the ex-pats in the community we stayed with stayed in all day, and drank themselves halve blind each night.

I know posting such thoughts on ex-pats site is dangerous - as a lot must be property owners, and some may be naturally defensive to my view because of this, but my intentions are not to offend. Just my thoughts.


----------



## DaveKim (Mar 25, 2013)

Josh1976 said:


> Hi, my names Josh, live in the UK, don't plan on moving to Cyprus anytime soon, I am 37, but thought I'd drop a post in! Hope it's not too offensive, but a general view on Cyprus from a visitor!
> 
> I visited Cyprus last September 2012, with the last time being in 1992 when I was 16. Up until the age of 16, I had been twice (sometimes three times a year) a year since I was a small baby.
> 
> ...



Oh my god where do I start with this!
Might be a wind up but I will bight anyway!
Shocking opinion and post! 
Firstly if you prefer the other side of the buffer zone then maybe the republic is not for you!!!

If you are that successful then maybe you can buy some real bargain opertunities here in the Republic or if you prefer cheaper in the North ( your choice of course)
Just for your information the Uk for property investment might be be better for you as property prices have gone up 3% in the last 3 months largest growth since then decline in in 2008 and are expected to grow at 0.8% per month( Halifax) 
I agree with you that property prices in Cyprus are over priced however that's the same through out the EU and some.
What's your point about expats "staying in all night and drunk all night"
What the hell has this got to do with ?

I do not think that you post is dangerous just foolish remarks from someone so successful!
With property and savings etc!.
If you really believe that property prices should be cheaper than Spain then maybe you should go to Fengarola and make your next fortune.
Where I'm sure you won't find any ex'pats wasting there mornings sleeping and the rest of the day drinking "their" lives away.
Good luck with what ever you decide.
I still think this must be a wind up post.If not then maybe you need to book a one way ticket to the moon lane:
As you ended with just your thoughts I thought I would do the same
Just my thoughts 

Dave
Ps Thank god you don't intend moving to Cyprus anytime soon.(your words not mine)


----------



## PeteandSylv (Sep 24, 2008)

Well the suggestion has been made that this is a wind-up post. I don't know but what I do know is that it takes a very narrow minded view.

To criticise people for staying in tavernas drinking as a criticism of Cyprus is innacurate. Those people are ex-pats and therefore not Cypriots. Everywhere you go you will meet ex-pats who yearn for the "British" pubs, all day breakfasts and a pathological need to watch football on large screens. That is the characteristics of some Brits. You can avoid these and see the real Cyprus if you wish. 

The property prices quoted are attainable but so is a lot of lower priced property. The method of construction here, ignoring steel and timber framed, is based on making the houses earthquake proof using concrete just as it is in Spain , Greece etc. The newer builds I have seen are being improved with far better insulation and to suggest there is no wet central heating here is just wrong. In fact the description of the build is so exaggeratedly wrong that I would be cautious about the construction of the writer's properties. After all who ever heard of a cowboy builder in the UK?

Of course there are deep problems here and of course there are characteristics of the nation and the people that are noticeable but to stereotype everything in this way shows a lack of understanding and knowledge about the country particularly outside of Kato Paphos.

Speaking for myself and probably many people I know, life here is not boring at all. With a large circle of friends there is lots of socialising to do, much country to explore and all sorts of events to enjoy.

There are none so blind as will not see.

Pete


----------



## Veronica (Apr 5, 2008)

I can't be bothered to answer every point this poster has made except to say that he has a very blinkered view of this country and his post is full of inaccuracies. 
It would take to long to answer his points as I have to get ready to go out and meet all my drunken friends in Pissouri later


----------



## David_&_Letitia (Jul 8, 2012)

Josh1976 said:


> Hi, my names Josh, live in the UK, don't plan on moving to Cyprus anytime soon...
> 
> ...the thought actually crossed my mind when visiting last September that I might pick up a property on the cheap in readiness for it to bounce back in later years.
> 
> ...Just my thoughts.


I am puzzled by this post. I am well travelled, and would not consider living full time in most of the countries I have visited, but I never dream of going to one of the many expat forums to tell them that!

You say that the real purpose of your post is *Cyprus* property but go on to compare it with the UK standards of construction, planning and prices. You may as well compare bananas and apples. They are both fruit – but that’s about all they have in common. 

I am also rather surprised that having listed all you see as the problems of living in Cyprus, you state that you considered buying a property there – the only thing stopping you was that you were unable to pick one up “on the cheap”. You mention plots of land costing £5k in the 80s and £50k now. There are plenty of examples of that in the UK and elsewhere too – it’s called inflation. The price of land or property can be like any other commodity – controlled by supply and demand. If someone has something to sell and someone else is willing to pay their price, that’s fine. However, I think most expats with property in Cyprus do not look upon their property as an investment to make more money. It’s a home.

Some people know the price of everything and the value of nothing.


----------



## Sarchy (Feb 14, 2011)

Veronica said:


> I can't be bothered to answer every point this poster has made except to say that he has a very blinkered view of this country and his post is so full of inaccuracies.
> It would take to long to answer his points as I have to get ready to go out and meet all my drunken friends in Pissouri later




And we will be joining you and all the other expat sots out there, however I can't afford to get too drunk as I have to drive home!


----------



## virgil (May 3, 2012)

[QUOTE Everyone's a cousin, brother, uncle and no matter how far people live apart - they all seem to know each other[/QUOTE]

Sounds just like Cornwall, but with Sun


----------



## mdekkers (Jul 3, 2013)

PeteandSylv said:


> Of course there are deep problems here and of course there are characteristics of the nation and the people that are noticeable but to stereotype everything in this way shows a lack of understanding and knowledge about the country particularly outside of Kato Paphos.


I also think this a troll / wind up post. I fail to see the point of Josh's post, or what he is asking/trying to achieve. One of the first things I learned on the web, when I was still dialling in with a 14k modem squealing like a stuck pig, was "Don't feed the trolls".

Having said that  

The characteristics listed by Josh are not typical of Cypriots. They are typical of many countries I have lived in and have visited, including Israel and Malta.

_lack of planning/urban development so houses built everywhere, nothing finished (nothing was ever finished in the 1980's) I think it's as bad a spain now._​A surprising amount of countries lack any kind of coherent or significant urban planning. From my reading, the most important part is addressed, that being building density. I also understand that to have a new property built, you need to get some kind of planning consent where some people (local, I gather) need to approve your designs. Please note that the majority of places you visit in the world that you would state have character, or charm are exactly so due to the lack of urban planning. In the "west" urban planning usually comes to mean "bland, boring, all the same, mcmansions" PLEASE give me a lack of urban planning any day. It makes life varied and interesting. 

_every piece of scrubland is a building plot that "I sell you" .......back in the 80's they were 5k each, now they want 50k!
_​And the point is? you are complaining about the price of real estate going up? That's how it works the world over.

_Cypriots almost build palaces on their bit of scrub land, but then use the garden to dump all their rubbish and old cars, so it resembles steptoes yard. Why do they do this!!!
_​You see this in lots of countries. This is usually due to a variety of reasons. Not because they are slobs or don't care, but because there is the general cultural feeling that everything outside the home is "wilderness" in some way. In all countries I have seen this, more often then not, the inside of the homes are neat, spotless, you can typically eat of the floor, and are meticulously decorated to the occupants' taste. I have found, and would be surprised to find Cyprus to be any different, that people take real, extreme pride in their homes. Yes, it would be nice if the countryside is clean and without rubbish, both for aesthetic as well as environmental reasons, but to answer your question as to "why do they do this" very often the locals would have more urgent things to think about, and "Keeping Cyprus Tidy" is not part of the collective thoughts of the population. My wife wants to know why in the name of all that is Holy I *insist* on keeping my socks lying around all over the house. I simply take them off when they bug me, and the feeling is unconscious. I don't register that I did take them off, and don't usually see them lying around. (I am lucky she loves me in spite of this) I am guessing the garbage/rubbish in public is similar. I wouldn't dream of littering in public, or dumping my rubbish anywhere, but that is just how it is. All respect for the lady in the other white lines post for cleaning up her street, but the better approach would be a campaign to make people understand that a clean place is nicer to live in.


_Cypriots needing 15 dogs, tieing them up and letting them bark all night long.
_​Very effective to keep the bandits out. Not everybody can or could afford guards and high walls. And so it becomes part of a national culture.

_Everyone's a cousin, brother, uncle and no matter how far people live apart - they all seem to know each other. _​Welcome to Island life!! For me personally, this was one of the best things about living in Malta. Life is about the social cohesion of the people around you, about dealing with people on a personal level, of making friends, owing people favours and having people owe you favours in return. It is about getting things done in a very sensitive way, being respectful of others, and getting to know the very extensive family and friends networks. It is very, very easy to be included in these networks. Be respectful of culture and customs. Understand their history. Don't try to be "better". Learn the language. Make friends. You will always be an outsider. The way in which you approach this status can be an asset or a hindrance - that is up to you. 

Go with the flow, and make the most of what you have. Every culture has something interesting and unique to offer. Become a part of it, enjoy it, integrate with it. It is an amazing experience, and will help you enrich your own life and mind and soul one way or the other. 

Finally, I think that your comment about "naturally when you turn 16 you don't go on hols with the family" is not so naturally, and is a good indicator of your own personality, not in the least "the whole world must think the same way I do, or they are stupid" or something to that effect. When my better half and myself go on vacation with the family in Russia, we typically go with 10 to 15 people, on camping trips (Altai mountains and Kazakhstan, both amazing) and we all have a great time, ages range from 2 years old to 72 years old. and everybody has a great time. It is a time of bonding and getting together, of appreciating each other in a way you cannot do when day-to-day life has you all engaged with your own things. Often the teenage contingent bring their mates etc. I grew up without a family to speak of, and this has made me appreciate how precious and amazing these trips can be. If you stopped going with your family at 16, you missed out some of the best experiences life has to offer. I feel sorry for you.

Just my thoughts...

Martijn :ranger:


----------



## DaveKim (Mar 25, 2013)

PeteandSylv said:


> Well the suggestion has been made that this is a wind-up post. I don't know but what I do know is that it takes a very narrow minded view.
> 
> To criticise people for staying in tavernas drinking as a criticism of Cyprus is innacurate. Those people are ex-pats and therefore not Cypriots. Everywhere you go you will meet ex-pats who yearn for the "British" pubs, all day breakfasts and a pathological need to watch football on large screens. That is the characteristics of some Brits. You can avoid these and see the real Cyprus if you wish.
> 
> ...



Pete 
This is exactly what I was trying to say, however I didn't get up until 5.30 and went straight to my local pub (not taverner) to watch the Tennis and didn't get home until 2.00Am :banplease:

Dave


----------



## mdekkers (Jul 3, 2013)

David_&_Letitia said:


> Some people know the price of everything and the value of nothing.


Thank you, this is now my new favourite saying 

Martijn :ranger:


----------



## DaveKim (Mar 25, 2013)

Quote"Finally, I think that your comment about "naturally when you turn 16 you don't go on hols with the family" is not so naturally, and is a good indicator of your own personality, not in the least "the whole world must think the same way I do, or they are stupid" or something to that effect. When my better half and myself go on vacation with the family in Russia, we typically go with 10 to 15 people, on camping trips (Altai mountains and Kazakhstan, both amazing) and we all have a great time, ages range from 2 years old to 72 years old. and everybody has a great time. It is a time of bonding and getting together, of appreciating each other in a way you cannot do when day-to-day life has you all engaged with your own things. Often the teenage contingent bring their mates etc. I grew up without a family to speak of, and this has made me appreciate how precious and amazing these trips can be. If you stopped going with your family at 16, you missed out some of the best experiences life has to offer. I feel sorry for you.quote


Martijn

This is so true I was in Cyprus with 16 family members in 2007 and my Mum was 77, we had swimming races with my Mum in the Sandra Apartments swimming pool, oh my day the funniest day of my life.
Fantastic memories of which all the money in the world couldn't buy.

Dave


----------



## Josh1976 (Jul 5, 2013)

*Silly*

My post was not a wind up post! Property was in September of last year over-inflated, and I still stand by that!



PeteandSylv said:


> Well the suggestion has been made that this is a wind-up post. I don't know but what I do know is that it takes a very narrow minded view.
> 
> To criticise people for staying in tavernas drinking as a criticism of Cyprus is innacurate. Those people are ex-pats and therefore not Cypriots. Everywhere you go you will meet ex-pats who yearn for the "British" pubs, all day breakfasts and a pathological need to watch football on large screens. That is the characteristics of some Brits. You can avoid these and see the real Cyprus if you wish.
> 
> ...


----------



## mdekkers (Jul 3, 2013)

Josh1976 said:


> My post was not a wind up post! Property was in September of last year over-inflated, and I still stand by that!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## David_&_Letitia (Jul 8, 2012)

Josh1976 said:


> *Nothing you have said gets away from the fact, the "construction methods "in Cyprus are a much cheaper form of construction than in the UK. And my point about this was overall property prices should not be the same as the UK, as a houses to build in the UK (with its higher standards) obviously costs more! It is evident after 20 or 30 years when the cracks appear and lumps of render start falling off houses, that Cyprus doesn't have the same, but things are getting better obviously.
> *


Within the UK, the constrction methods are the same. However, the price of a 4 bed detached house in Wales or N Ireland will buy you a 1 bed apartment in a fairly run down area of London. You cannot use construction methods or 'brick for brick' to determine property prices.

It's supply and demand. Simples.


----------



## Veronica (Apr 5, 2008)

If we sold our house here we could never hope to be able to afford to buy in the area of Yorkshire where we used to live and have a house where my husband and I could have separate rooms to watch TV so he can watch endless hours of sport without driving me up the wall.
At best we would end up with a 2 bedroom semi in a not very nice area.

Josh you really need to spend more time researching and getting your facts straight before criticising and getting peoples backs up.
You should also take into account that adverised prices are not the lowest that many vendors will actually accept. It's all about bargaining. Whereas in the Uk you would be lucky to get a vendor to reduce by 5k here in Cyprus you often get huge amounts off the asking price.
We had two sets of clients who bid 400k for 500k villas and had the offers accepted.


----------



## mdekkers (Jul 3, 2013)

Veronica said:


> ...have a house where my husband and I could have separate rooms to watch TV so he can watch endless hours of sport without driving me up the wall....


You forgot to mention all the drinking expats seem to do from morning till night... :spit:


----------



## Veronica (Apr 5, 2008)

mdekkers said:


> You forgot to mention all the drinking expats seem to do from morning till night... :spit:


Oh yes sorry We certainly couldn't afford to do that in the Uk.


----------



## Rema (Aug 12, 2012)

Dear Josh,

Having just read your 2 posts and all the comments in reply I guess I have to have my say too!

Firstly I wonder at the motivation for your post, what is it that you are trying to achieve? You realise it could be offensive as you (quote) "hope it's not too offensive" and "posting such thoughts on ex-pats site is dangerous" so it seems you were determined to cause upset. To what purpose? Looking for your 15 mins (sorry seconds, in your case) of fame maybe?

I see you really want to give your views on property prices - but then you rant on about people getting drunk, ex-pats having a boring time and you with nothing to do in Paphos - it get's a little what we in the forum would call "off subject". So come on Josh what are you really up to? 

Funny thing is some of what you have to say has some merit however everybody has their own view on what makes for a comfortable and acceptable life. Some of the 'differences' you identify actually add charm to the place. Trouble is you don't seem smart enough to put a constructive argument together. The way you have approached your subject was bound to put peoples back's up - which you acknowledge! So I ask again, to what purpose? 

If I have one piece of advice for you (from an old-fart to an up-start), know your audience!. I know some of people who have responded to your post and they are all OK folk. I take it you don't actually know anybody on the forum.
Many, like me, have many interests that keep us out of the pub/club scene so pity your interests are a bit limited so as to find nothing to do in Paphos. It's an interesting place full of history and culture, if only you took the trouble to find out.

Josh you are approaching 40 like a 16 year old. You appear to have a chip on your shoulder re your parents, like so many youth of today, and are proud of what you have achieved. Good for you on that last point but remember, pride comes before the fall. 
Perhaps you reached 16 and then, like in the film Ground Hog Day, you just keep repeating the experiences if being 16 without learning anything. 

In short Josh, who gives a rat's arse about your views anyway? 

Best regards from a very happy ex=pat in Cyprus.


----------



## MacManiac (Jan 25, 2012)

I wonder whether the summer has had an effect on this thread:

Summer loving had me a blast
Summer loving happened so fast
I met a girl crazy for me
Met a boy cute as can be

Summer days drifting away
To, oh, oh, the summer nights

Well-a well-a well-a, huh
Tell me more, tell me more
Did you get very far?
Tell me more, tell me more
Like does he have a car?

She swam by me, she got a cramp
He ran by me, got my suit damp
I saved her life, she nearly drowned
He showed off, splashing around

Summer sun, something's begun
But, oh, oh, the summer nights

Well-a well-a well-a huh
Tell me more, tell m,e more
Was it love at first sight?
Tell me more, tell me more
Did she put a fight?

Took her bowling in the Arcade
We went strolling, drank lemonade
We made out under the dock
We stayed up 'till ten o'clock

Summer fling, don't mean a thing
But, oh, oh, the summer nights

Well-a well-a well-a huh
Tell me more, tell me more
But you don't gotta brag
Tell me more, tell me more
'Cause he sounds like a drag

He got friendly, holding my hand
She got friendly down in the sand
He was sweet just turned eighteen
Well, she was good you know what I mean

Summer heat, boy and girl meet
But, oh, oh, the summer nights
Tell me more, tell me more
How much dough did he spend?
Tell me more, tell me more
Could she get me a friend?

It turned colder, that's where it ends
So I told her we'd still be friends
Then we made our true love vow
Wonder what she's doing now

Summer dreams ripped at the seams
But, oh, those summer nights
Tell me more, tell me more


----------



## Josh1976 (Jul 5, 2013)

Rema said:


> Dear Josh,
> 
> Having just read your 2 posts and all the comments in reply I guess I have to have my say too!
> 
> ...


I am pleased you are happy, best of luck to you


----------

