# Butano & kitchens



## Relyat (Sep 29, 2013)

When we last had a new kitchen 4 years ago, Leroy Merlin designed and installed it and specified a 30cm cupboard for the Butano bottle. Now we're looking for another new kitchen and were told today by a different company that the law has changed and that Butano bottles are no longer permitted to be in the kitchen but must be outside in a separate "casita".

Is this now the case?


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## growurown (Sep 3, 2018)

Sounds perfectly logical due to safety issues.

In France most apartments buildings forbid them - must be city gas or electric.


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## Relyat (Sep 29, 2013)

growurown said:


> Sounds perfectly logical due to safety issues.


I agree, however logic and the law are not always very well acquainted.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Relyat said:


> I agree, however logic and the law are not always very well acquainted.


It wouldn't surprise me if it were the law now. My landlady has had piped gas put into the kitchen of our apartment & she wouldn't spend money unless she had been forced to.


I found this, which says that the spare has to be housed in a different room to the one in use, & that in no home more than two can be used at any one time 

https://bombonabutano.com/info/seguridad


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Our last inspection was a couple of months ago and we are OK with having a couple of spares next to the one in use, there can be no naked flame** in the storage unit and it must be well ventilated as must the kitchen where the stove is located.

** it seems to be OK to have a sealed water heater just above the bombona.


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## AngelEyes123 (Sep 9, 2018)

xabiachica said:


> It wouldn't surprise me if it were the law now. My landlady has had piped gas put into the kitchen of our apartment & she wouldn't spend money unless she had been forced to.
> 
> 
> I found this, which says that the spare has to be housed in a different room to the one in use, & that in no home more than two can be used at any one time
> ...


Sometimes these types of questions are seeking different answers.

You have those trying to find out what they can get away with irrespective of their own welfare and safety.

You have those who just want to make sure they are complying with the law and regulations even if the rules are inadequate.

Then there are those who wish to implement the safest possible situation.

Common sense tells you the bottle needs to be in a safe place outside the kitchen and preferably outside the property (not under your bed). Spare bottles are best stored outside in a safe place isolated from the bottle in use. There needs to be maximum ventilation wherever gas burns (not just what the regs say). Gas water heaters are also best located outside the property.

It’s your life at risk, not the guy who writes the regulations. Grenfell Tower.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Ours is in the kitchen, in a cupboard right next to the electric oven and gas hob. It passed the inspection ...


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## AngelEyes123 (Sep 9, 2018)

Alcalaina said:


> Ours is in the kitchen, in a cupboard right next to the electric oven and gas hob. It passed the inspection ...


It’s your life at risk, not the guy who writes the regulations. Grenfell Tower passed the inspection.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

AngelEyes123 said:


> It’s your life at risk, not the guy who writes the regulations. Grenfell Tower passed the inspection.


Very helpful, I'll bear that in mind.

But the inspection (which is compulsory every five years) is to make sure there are no leaks from the pipework and to renew the tube, so provided the bombona is connected properly I don't think it's any more risky than crossing the road.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Alcalaina said:


> Very helpful, I'll bear that in mind.
> 
> But the inspection (which is compulsory every five years) is to make sure there are no leaks from the pipework and to renew the tube, so provided the bombona is connected properly I don't think it's any more risky than crossing the road.


Provided the regulator is correctly fitted and locked down. SWMBO changed a bombona a while back and while it still provided gas to the stove, there was a smell of gas in the san alejo. On checking, the regulator could be pulled off the bombona because it hadn't been fully locked into position. 

ALWAYS do a pull-off test after fitting the regulator to the top of the bombona just to make sure that it has locked on correctly.


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## AngelEyes123 (Sep 9, 2018)

Alcalaina said:


> Very helpful, I'll bear that in mind.
> 
> But the inspection (which is compulsory every five years) is to make sure there are no leaks from the pipework and to renew the tube, so provided the bombona is connected properly I don't think it's any more risky than crossing the road.


You are certainly entitled to your opinion and you can think whatever you want.

So leaks from the pipe work are checked every 5 years, so what happens in between?

Regulation and inspections are the absolute minimum. Every year, 20,000 to 30,000 people in the United States are sickened by accidental carbon monoxide poisoning and approximately 500 people die, many in their own home.


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## Isobella (Oct 16, 2014)

Relyat said:


> When we last had a new kitchen 4 years ago, Leroy Merlin designed and installed it and specified a 30cm cupboard for the Butano bottle. Now we're looking for another new kitchen and were told today by a different company that the law has changed and that Butano bottles are no longer permitted to be in the kitchen but must be outside in a separate "casita".
> 
> Is this now the case?


I thought it was the law, perhaps varies in other regions. We had a casita built in the 90,s for our bombonas. Even if it isn't a requirement I would prefer it outside.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

AngelEyes123 said:


> You are certainly entitled to your opinion and you can think whatever you want.
> 
> So leaks from the pipe work are checked every 5 years, so what happens in between?
> 
> Regulation and inspections are the absolute minimum. Every year, 20,000 to 30,000 people in the United States are sickened by accidental carbon monoxide poisoning and approximately 500 people die, many in their own home.


Sadly people die from carbon monoxide poisoning in Spain to (200 a year on average) but the fumes are just as likely to be from woodburning stoves or braseros. Sensible people will have a monitor fitted.

But I thought the issue with having bombonas in kitchens was that leaking gas might explode if in contact with a naked flame?

Anyway, I don't have any choice where my bombona is located so I just have to make sure it's maintained and connected properly.


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## AngelEyes123 (Sep 9, 2018)

Alcalaina said:


> Sadly people die from carbon monoxide poisoning in Spain to (200 a year on average) but the fumes are just as likely to be from woodburning stoves or braseros. Sensible people will have a monitor fitted.
> 
> But I thought the issue with having bombonas in kitchens was that leaking gas might explode if in contact with a naked flame?
> 
> Anyway, I don't have any choice where my bombona is located so I just have to make sure it's maintained and connected properly.


Sensible people might go all electric. Send us all an invitation to the boiled ham event.


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## Simon22 (May 22, 2015)

Alcalaina said:


> Sadly people die from carbon monoxide poisoning in Spain to (200 a year on average) but the fumes are just as likely to be from woodburning stoves or braseros. Sensible people will have a monitor fitted.
> 
> But I thought the issue with having bombonas in kitchens was that leaking gas might explode if in contact with a naked flame?
> 
> Anyway, I don't have any choice where my bombona is located so I just have to make sure it's maintained and connected properly.


Around here most people have the gas heaters on wheels with the bottle in it. ¿How can this be any different?


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

AngelEyes123 said:


> You are certainly entitled to your opinion and you can think whatever you want.
> 
> So leaks from the pipe work are checked every 5 years, so what happens in between?
> 
> Regulation and inspections are the absolute minimum. Every year, 20,000 to 30,000 people in the United States are sickened by accidental carbon monoxide poisoning and approximately 500 people die, many in their own home.





> You are certainly entitled to *your* opinion and *you* can think whatever you want.


The pipework only becomes a problem if it is disturbed or damaged following which, it should be checked by an authorised engineer, otherwise fixed pipework does not present a problem. Flexible hoses/connections are replaced every five years by an authorised engineer irrespective of their condition.

However, carbon monoxide poisoning is not from the bombona but from being in a poorly ventilated room in which gas is actually being burnt such that all the oxygen is consumed and replaced with carbon monoxide.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Simon22 said:


> Around here most people have the gas heaters on wheels with the bottle in it. ¿How can this be any different?


I have one - they are very popular.

Presumably one of these counts towrds the two permitted per dwelling.


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

Simon22 said:


> Around here most people have the gas heaters on wheels with the bottle in it. ¿How can this be any different?


Exactly. Many gas cookers (on sale today) also have a cupboard built in for the gas bottle to be stored in. When we used butano in our old house we sited the cooker next to the external wall to the patio and my husband ran pipework through the wall so that the bombona could be stored outside (in a cupboard, next to a spare one) and connected to the cooker inside. The installation was checked by the safety inspector and passed, on 3 separate occasions (when we originally obtained our contract with Repsol and twice more at the 5-yearly inspections).

We also had a portable gas heater which obviously had a bombona inside the house, so we had 3 bombonas on the premises in total.


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## growurown (Sep 3, 2018)

Lynn R said:


> We also had a portable gas heater which obviously had a bombona inside the house, so we had 3 bombonas on the premises in total.


I think they mean "in use" Lynn...


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

Well,

We live in the Campo so the suggestion of going all electric made me laugh and laugh and 😆 


We have an external cupboard with boiler and a gas bottle
Oven with gas bottle in
Two portable gas heaters with gas bottle in

Our contract is for 6 bottles in total.


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## country boy (Mar 10, 2010)

I was Corgi registered in the UK. What Megsmum says above is the case, and law in Andalucia anyway. Common sense must prevail in all things Domestic Gas fires with an LPG bottle not more than 6 inches from a naked flame, *which are safe and legal,* must tell you the situation. Stop wittering! Do remember however that burning needs AIR, always ensure adequate ventilation!!


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## Relyat (Sep 29, 2013)

Thanks for all the input. I'm going to see Leroys again tomorrow and I'll let you know what they say.


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## growurown (Sep 3, 2018)

Megsmum said:


> We have an external cupboard with boiler and a gas bottle
> Oven with gas bottle in
> Two portable gas heaters with gas bottle in
> 
> Our contract is for 6 bottles in total.


This could be solved by using 1 big tank (propane) and piping to were you use the gas (oven & burners) and a main boiler or split for hot water and heating.
Also, living in the Campo ( the city?) is not an excuse for not going electric as you could always pay to have either lines run to your property or the existing system upgraded. Some people take the safety of their family, property or visitors more seriously than others.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

growurown said:


> Campo ( the city?)


Campo = countryside, not city
It's one of those words British people tend to latch onto and always say in Spanish even though there is a perfectly good word in English to express the same.
See also abogado and Cataluña / Catalunya which are often used by English speakers living in Spain, often funnily enough those who speak little Spanish.


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## tebo53 (Sep 18, 2014)

It would be very awkward for me to have the gas bottle on the outside as i live on the 12th floor 😐 Do they do a floating bottle I wonder 🤔


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

growurown said:


> This could be solved by using 1 big tank (propane) and piping to were you use the gas (oven & burners) and a main boiler or split for hot water and heating.
> Also, living in the Campo ( the city?) is not an excuse for not going electric as you could always pay to have either lines run to your property or the existing system upgraded. Some people take the safety of their family, property or visitors more seriously than others.



The Campo is the countryside. I live 13 km from the nearest pylon. 


Edited
I can’t be bothered


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## growurown (Sep 3, 2018)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Campo = countryside, not city


It is also a small city in Spain.

https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Campo_(Huesca)


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## tebo53 (Sep 18, 2014)

growurown said:


> It is also a small city in Spain.
> 
> https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Campo_(Huesca)


Its described as a small town in that link with 416 inhabitants not a city


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## country boy (Mar 10, 2010)

growurown said:


> This could be solved by using 1 big tank (propane) and piping to were you use the gas (oven & burners) and a main boiler or split for hot water and heating.
> Also, living in the Campo ( the city?) is not an excuse for not going electric as you could always pay to have either lines run to your property or the existing system upgraded. Some people take the safety of their family, property or visitors more seriously than others.




You obviously know very little about living in Spain and especially the Campo.

Firstly: The cheapest LPG in Spain is the Orange Repsol 11kg bottle which is subsidised and price regulated by the government. All other types and quantities are free to market/retailer forces and generally cost much more per kilo of gas.
Secondly: Apart from being horrendously expensive, bulk LPG is generally not available in the Campo because the tankers will not stray far off the highway, if at all.
Thirdly: Increasing an Electricity supply capacity is totally at the discretion of the supplier and there is usually a very feeble supply situation from the grid and it is simply not available. We are lucky, we have 6.6Kw which is the highest I have come across in our area. Some of my neighbours have less than 3Kw!

High usage users of LPG tend to go for banks of Orange bottles, say 2x5 with an automatic change over valve. We use a 2x2 bank which lasts about 10 days per pair with our usage. We have a Butane bottle in the cupboard for the kitchen hob. The Boilers run on Propane.
Propane will "Gas" at lower temperatures and is most suitable for outdoor storage units. Butane ceases to "Gas" at about 4 degrees Celsius so is not much use in cold weather outdoors.
Hope this helps.


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

1,830 people were killed in road traffic accidents in Spain last year.

http://www.dgt.es/es/prensa/notas-d...n-1830-personas-en-accidente-de-trafico.shtml

I suggest, therefore, that we should accord giving up travelling on the roads nine times higher priority than stopping using butano inside our homes, given the proportionately higher number of casualties.


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

country boy said:


> You obviously know very little about living in Spain and especially the Campo.
> 
> Firstly: The cheapest LPG in Spain is the Orange Repsol 11kg bottle which is subsidised and price regulated by the government. All other types and quantities are free to market/retailer forces and generally cost much more per kilo of gas.
> Secondly: Apart from being horrendously expensive, bulk LPG is generally not available in the Campo because the tankers will not stray far off the highway, if at all.
> ...



Thank you for explaining to our new person who seems advise on a great many things with clearly no knowledge. I was going to but as I said in my post 

Edited

Can’t be bothered :clap2:


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## Relyat (Sep 29, 2013)

Leroy Merlin are quite prepared to have the gas bottle situated in the kitchen.
Academic really as I'm informed that we're now having an electric hob..........


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