# Private medical insurance for residency application



## Weeksy4510 (May 18, 2018)

Hi, apologies as I'm am sure this has been asked loads of times but I cannot see specific post that answers this question.
Once you have successfully applied for residency in Spain can you stop paying for private medical insurance. Me and my wife are not eligible for UK state pension yet and plan on living on our UK private pensions. We are looking to live 9 months in Spain and 3 months in uk.
Therefore we would go back to UK for any operations but just need Spanish medical cover to get our residency application approved.
Thanks......


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Weeksy4510 said:


> Hi, apologies as I'm am sure this has been asked loads of times but I cannot see specific post that answers this question.
> Once you have successfully applied for residency in Spain can you stop paying for private medical insurance. Me and my wife are not eligible for UK state pension yet and plan on living on our UK private pensions. We are looking to live 9 months in Spain and 3 months in uk.
> Therefore we would go back to UK for any operations but just need Spanish medical cover to get our residency application approved.
> Thanks......


 If you live in Spain for 9 months out of 12 you are a resident in Spain, not the UK and therefore cannot legally use the UK health care system. You'll need to be covered here in Spain.
Look here
http://www.expatforum.com/expats/sp...-informative-site-about-healthcare-spain.html


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## Weeksy4510 (May 18, 2018)

Thanks but doesn't answer my question about if I need to keep paying for private medical once residency has been successfully applied for.
I will be paying UK tax still and own a property in UK too so don't see why I cannot get UK NHS healthcare as I do now


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## Gregorians (Oct 18, 2017)

@Weeksy4510 there's more helpful information here:

The healthcare system in Spain

but again it doesn't address your specific question. 

AFAIK a residency application requires proof of medical insurance with no co-pay for only the first year. 

Though it seems you may be conflating this with questions of tax residency, which you should also consider carefully.


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## Juan C (Sep 4, 2017)

I had always assumed that once one had been issued with their EU citizen card that was it. 

However by coincidence yesterday I became aware of a person who had been issued with the cert a couple of months ago using a work contract to cover his income and medical cover. 

He was called to the Extranjeria because the police had discovered he had left the job. They gave him 10 days to prove income and medical cover after which the registration would be cancelled 

Thus maybe if one cancelled their meofacl insurance that might be discovered


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## Weeksy4510 (May 18, 2018)

Many thanks. That answers it perfectly. I am aware there is a risk involved but initially wanted to get a feel for the rules surrounding healthcare


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

Law RD 240 / 2007 establish the conditions for legal residency in Spain, although the rules for the application of the law only came into force in Presidencial Order PRE1490/2012.

Although I'm sure there will be alternative interpretations (as there always are in legal readings) it seems clear that the requirements for legal residency have to be fulfilled on an ongoing basis, and not only at one given point in time. 

By cancelling the required medical cover, you would no longer fulfill the requirements of Article 7 of the RD, so would no longer be considered legally resident.


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## kalohi (May 6, 2012)

AFAIK all the private health insurance companies issue one year policies. So you sign a contract with them for one year of coverage, which obligates you to pay for the entire year. So in other words, no, you won't be able to stop paying for your private medical insurance once you get your residency. It's only at the end of the year that you can cancel for the following year.


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## tebo53 (Sep 18, 2014)

And, don't forget that after living in Spain for 186 days you will automatically become a tax resident and you will pay taxes to the Spanish tax man instead of HMRC. You will also need to fill in Modelo 720 to declare your total worldwide wealth including amounts in bank accounts and any property ownership in any country. 

Steve


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## Juan C (Sep 4, 2017)

Weeksey
The 183 rule if just one which makes a person tax resident

In you case as you are moving to spain and applying for a residence cert. that overrules the 183 day rule. When one moves to Spain’s they become tax resident immediately


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

Juan C said:


> Weeksey
> 
> In you case as you are moving to spain and applying for a residence cert. that overrules the 183 day rule. When one moves to Spain’s they become tax resident immediately


This is a rather sweeping statement which in some cases could be true, but having moved to Spain twice (with highly professional help) I can assure the forum users that it is not correct.


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## booksurfer (Apr 21, 2018)

Juan C said:


> Weeksey
> In you case as you are moving to spain and applying for a residence cert. that overrules the 183 day rule.


No it doesn't.

There are a number of factors that determine tax residency, number of days spent in the country is one and 'centre of economic interest' is another.

Consider the following:

After 90 days spent in the country you are required by law to apply for residency. That doesn't make you a tax resident. If you become resident and don't spend more than 183 days in the country per year you don't become a tax resident. 

Therefore if you spend between 3 and 6 months in Spain in any one year, you become resident but not tax resident.

In the OP's case, if they spend 9 months of the year in Spain, they will become tax resident.


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## booksurfer (Apr 21, 2018)

Weeksy4510 said:


> Once you have successfully applied for residency in Spain can you stop paying for private medical insurance. Me and my wife are not eligible for UK state pension yet and plan on living on our UK private pensions.


The short and quick answer is, no you cannot stop paying your private medical insurance as it's a requirement of your residency to have it.

If you are not in receipt of a UK State Pension then there is no reciprocal state health care in place and you will require private health care as a requirement of your Spanish residency until you receive your UK State Pension.

Becoming tax resident in Spain has a number of implications with regards to inheritance tax, income tax and asset disclosure and needs to be considered very carefully indeed.


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## Juan C (Sep 4, 2017)

Moving to spain, that is making it you centre of economic activities, over rules the 183 day rule as far as U.K. citizens are concerned

If in doubt, read this 

https://www.blevinsfranks.com/news/blevinsfranks/article/tax-residence-spain


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Weeksy4510 said:


> Thanks but doesn't answer my question about if I need to keep paying for private medical once residency has been successfully applied for.
> I will be paying UK tax still and own a property in UK too so don't see why I cannot get UK NHS healthcare as I do now


That information is in the link I gave you. There is a wealth of info there, but you do have to read it


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

Weeksy4510 said:


> Thanks but doesn't answer my question about if I need to keep paying for private medical once residency has been successfully applied for.
> I will be paying UK tax still and own a property in UK too so don't see why I cannot get UK NHS healthcare as I do now


Paying tax in the uk and owning a house does not mean you are entitled to the NHS

You will be resident in Spain not the UK , you have to be resident in the UK to get healthcare

As an aside. Say you do CX your health cover, what if you have an accident,, broken leg, broken arm ? do you think you can just fly back to the UK and get treatment? How will that work. I travel back to the UK, I pay tax in UK on my NHS pension, I have to get private healthcare out for my trips or use my EHIC card


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

Juan C said:


> Moving to spain, that is making it you centre of economic activities, over rules the 183 day rule as far as U.K. citizens are concerned
> 
> If in doubt, read this
> 
> https://www.blevinsfranks.com/news/blevinsfranks/article/tax-residence-spain


Where does it say you are automatically tax resident ? I cannot see that statement anywhere


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## Juan C (Sep 4, 2017)

Megsmum


It says ‘ You are resident in Spain for tax purposes IF ANY OF THE FOLLOWING APPLY’ 


Thus if any one of the three conditions apply. 

So the 183 days is one condition, 

economic interests” is in Spain, i.e. the base for your economic or professional activities is in Spain, is another


Your “centre of vital interests” is in spain, is another 

As I understand that. If one moves to spain, as opposed to just visiting, at least one of those conditions must apply

If I am wrong, please let me know 

Thanks

Juan


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

Juan C said:


> Megsmum
> 
> 
> It says ‘ You are resident in Spain for tax purposes IF ANY OF THE FOLLOWING APPLY’
> ...


I think you are wrong 

Just by moving to Spain and if you stay under the 183 days and your economic interest etc are NOT in Spain then You’re not deemed resident for tax purposes. Many many people live her as residents but under the 183 days and their economic interest lie in another country. 


So you could live here for under 183 days and non of the conditions could apply. 

But that’s my interpretation


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## Juan C (Sep 4, 2017)

Megamum

So you could live here for under 183 days and non of the conditions could apply. 

That is what I have been saying. If none of the conditions apply you are not tax resident. But it any do then one is tax resident from when that condition applies 

Also in the very rare situation where ones situation is not clear then AEAT and HMRC should be informed of all the conditions and they will agree what applies


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

Juan C said:


> Weeksey
> The 183 rule if just one which makes a person tax resident
> 
> In your case as you are moving to spain and applying for a residence cert. that overrules the 183 day rule. When one moves to Spain’s they become tax resident immediately




No you said the above , that’s not correct residency is not the same as being fiscally resident 

Residency does not override the 183 day rule. As far as I am aware


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## booksurfer (Apr 21, 2018)

Megsmum said:


> You will be resident in Spain not the UK , you have to be resident in the UK to get healthcare...


Well, that's not quite true.

Those in receipt of the UK State Pension, resident in Spain, can still access the UK NHS with full entitlement:

British pensioners resident in Spain are entitled to full access to NHS healthcare in the uk/

Although I don't think that applies to anyone not in receipt of the UK State Pension resident in Spain.


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

booksurfer said:


> Well, that's not quite true.
> 
> Those in receipt of the UK State Pension, resident in Spain, can still access the UK NHS with full entitlement:
> 
> ...


Correct 

But as the OP stated she needed private cover she is clearly not in receipt of an S1 therefore not a pensioner? Otherwise why get private cover


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## Juan C (Sep 4, 2017)

megamum “Residency does not override the 183 day rule. As far as I am aware”

I said as they were moving to spain and taking up residencia. It was the moving to spain in their case which determined their residencia status 

The 183 day rule is one rule which makes one resident. Residency is determined on that rule or one of the others quoted by Blevins franks.


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

Juan C said:


> megamum “Residency does not override the 183 day rule. As far as I am aware”
> 
> I said as they were moving to spain and taking up residencia. It was the moving to spain in their case which determined their residencia status
> 
> The 183 day rule is one rule which makes one resident. Residency is determined on that rule or one of the others quoted by Blevins franks.


No it’s not. Getting a residency certificate card whatever you call it doesn’t mean you are tax liable. Yes the OP said they’re moving for 6/3 months. That’s is not my point 
You said and I quote 



> as they were moving to spain and taking up residencia. It was the moving to spain in their case which determined their residencia status


Moving to Spain does not make you tax resident in its self 

Which is an incorrect statement and could be misconstrued by many a potential mover. Taking up residency In spain is different to being fiscally resident. I know people who are resident here but not tax liable here because they don’t fulfill the 183 day or any other requirements to be so 

I’m not trying to be awkward here, but the wording is so very important when advising people who are asking question. I’m bowing out now. The OP has not returned to respond so it’s all a bit of a mute point anyway now


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## booksurfer (Apr 21, 2018)

Megsmum said:


> Which is an incorrect statement and could be misconstrued by many a potential mover. Taking up residency In spain is different to being fiscally resident. I know people who are resident here but not tax liable here because they don’t fulfill the 183 day or any other requirements to be so


Indeed.

I understand what Juan is saying, but like you I don't agree with it. He's misinterpreting 'intent' here I think.

It's fair to say that if you plan and intend on moving to Spain permanently, you will become a tax resident. In that sense he's right. Where you and I agree is, that won't happen until after 183 days residency as per the stipulation from Hacienda.

Where Juan is tripping up I think regards the option someone still has of NOT becoming a tax resident before that 183 day limit is reached. Even though they planned on moving to Spain permanently (their original intent) they still have the option of not becoming tax resident if they choose to do so. That's really why what Juan is saying here is wrong.


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

I moved from Thailand to Spain in August 2016. 

I was not in Spain for 183 days in 2016. I did move here with the intention of residing.

Ernst and Young manged my tax returns for the transitional year and there was never any doubt that I was not tax resident in 2016, neither on their part, nor on the part of the AEAT.

If the AEAT though like Juan, they surely would have made me a tax resident!

I became tax resident in 2017.


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## Gillykins (May 16, 2018)

While on the subject of residency does anyone know if the form to pay the residency certificate fee at the bank is Modelo 790-,12 or 790- ,52? I believe it needs to be filled in online and printed off? Many thanks.


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