# Giving Me Hard Time to Get E-2 Visa



## business man (Aug 24, 2008)

Hi everybody, I need your help about this issue.

I have been in the USA for 8 years. I graduated from college as a Computer Programmer. Later, I decided to open my own business. I opened my business last year in August. I came back to my home country 6 months ago to see my family and to get E-2 Visa. But, while I was in USA, I was approved for I129 PETITION FOR A NONIMMIGRANT WORKER (I paid alot of money to my lawyer for this proccess). 

I set up my visa appointment in March 2008 in Turkey. All they wanted from me was papers about my company (contracts, rents, inventory, employees info, info about 3 of my locations). I gave them everything I had and they gave me different date to come back for interview which was about 1 month. After 1 month, I went to Consulate again for interview, but for some crazy reason they didn't give me the visa. They told me that I could apply again after I take care of the crazy reasons that they gave me. Well, I had all paper in my hands again and I solved all the problems they told me. I set up another date on May 2008. They wanted more documents from me (employees info), I sent them all the info they wanted about my employees. After 1 month, they they called me again and told me that they want current bank statements of my company. I sent them all of the bank statements about 2 months ago. But, now they are telling me that they don't have the bank statements. I told them I had UPS Tracking number which shows who got my papers, but they don't even listen (they are telling me to send the papers again). 

Well, These people are giving me very hard time. Everytime, they want extra documents from me, it takes at least 1 month to get back to me. I call them almost everyday, but they are not telling me what the status is at all. I have applied for this visa for about 3 months now, and I am still waiting for an answer. When I call visa department, they are telling me that they are very busy and they want me to call them back later. 

I haven't done anything wrong....I haven't even gotten a speeding ticket while I was in USA......I graduated from a college and worked for a well-known company for about 7 months..... But now, I am losing thousands of dollar every week because I can't taking care of my business. 

WHAT HAVE I DONE WRONG FOR NOT TO GET A VISA???

Can anybody advise me something? Thank you all for your help in advance...


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## twostep (Apr 3, 2008)

Waht are the "crazy reasons"?


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## Fatbrit (May 8, 2008)

business man said:


> WHAT HAVE I DONE WRONG FOR NOT TO GET A VISA???


We do not know whether your business would qualify for an E2, especially in terms of initial investment and employees. In addition, consuls seem to have an aversion to folks changing to E2 status in the US without getting a visa first. You're really stuck between a rock and a hard place on this one.


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## business man (Aug 24, 2008)

*Well, Crazy reasons are: *1- I owned the company 50/50 with my partner. I put more money into my business than my partner did and they thought that this was a problem. 2- They wanted me to have business plan (I've already shown them what locations we were going to get for years 2009 and 2010. 3- They wanted to know how much of the money that was transfered from Turkey to our business account was spent on business and how we spent them. These were the reasons that they refused to give me visa.

Well, after they gave me these 3 reasons, I got all of the company under my name, so now I own 100% of the company. I also prepared a business plan and showed them where I spent the money that was transfered from Turkey.


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## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

One other consideration - you said you were in the US for 8 years. What sort of visa(s) were you on during that time? Perhaps there is something about the convertability of your previous visas that is causing you problems (or at least causing the consulate to request all the extra information).
Cheers,
Bev


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## business man (Aug 24, 2008)

I was on F-1 Student Visa. Well, don't you think they would have told me if it was the problem with my F-1 Visa? I applied 3 times for F-1 and never had any problem.


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## twostep (Apr 3, 2008)

So you were enrolled in school three times?
Did your business venture comply with the restrictions of your F1 visa?


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## business man (Aug 24, 2008)

Well, I went to English school first. Then, I started a comminity college. After that, I transfered to University. My first visa was issued in Turkey. And, second and third were issued in Canada. But, I didn't have a single problem. I don't think my F-1 Visa effected my E-2 visa because they didn't even question me about it. They just asked me which university I gradueted from.


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## RICHNTRISH (Jun 4, 2008)

Hi ,
So are you now stuck in Turkey or have you managed to return to the US ?
How many US citizens does your business employ ? and if you are stuck in Turkey is it these employees that are now running the business ?
What sort of business is it ?


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## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

business man said:


> I don't think my F-1 Visa effected my E-2 visa because they didn't even question me about it. They just asked me which university I gradueted from.


I wouldn't be so sure. Your prior visa records are the part they have perfect access to - they don't really need to ask you about it.

When I was in business school, we had a very popular professor who had come over to the US from Turkey on student visas under the Fulbright program. While in the US he met and married an American woman, finished his PhD and got a position at the university. INS came after him because he didn't go back to his country after completing his studies (not sure whether it was a condition of his visas or a condition of the Fulbright program). There was apparently a requirement that he go back home for at least a couple years before he would be eligible for another visa (even a spousal visa).

He had to get a US Senator to intervene on his behalf - based on the grounds that, by deporting him, the government was forcing American citizens (i.e. his wife and kids) to go to a country where there was a significant risk for Americans (this was a few years back when the political situation in Turkey was a bit more chaotic).

Not sure how any of that helps you, other than the notion that it could well be your student visas that are causing you problems or at least raising the question of what your "real" intentions are.
Cheers,
Bev


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## twostep (Apr 3, 2008)

Can you lay your cards on the table instead of piece mealing? Half questions bring half answers.

You hat one F1 issued in Turkey two in Canada. Why?


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## business man (Aug 24, 2008)

RICHNTRISH, I'm stuck in Turkey. They have been holding all of my documents and passport since May.
I have 4 US citizens employ for my business as Full-Time. I also proved them how much I pay them with W-4 forms. 
Yes, one of these employees is the manager and he is running the business. 
I'm in Sunglasses business and I currently have 4 locations. I have one more openning in November (I have the contract for all of these locations). 
Thanks to all of your for your help!


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## business man (Aug 24, 2008)

Twostep, There are a few reasons; it was easier for me to renew my F-1 in Canada then in Turkey (I heard that most of my friends did't get the visa from Turkey, so I was scared to get it from Turkey). Canada was closer to me to go there and get the visa, but I had to fly about 16 hours and pay lots of money for ticket (I thought I could save money). 
As you see what's happening to me now when I try to get the visa from Turkey... They know that this company is running and all the taxes have been paid to goverment, employees are working, lots of money has been invested so far, so on...


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## twostep (Apr 3, 2008)

What is your nationality what was your nationality at birth?
Bev - I think you hit it right on - something about the F1s coming from different states has triggered research. The comment about flying to Canada beause of rumors sounds a bit off


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## business man (Aug 24, 2008)

Bevdeforges, I don't really know much about these visas. But, all I want to know why they have been holding all my documents and passport for 3 months...Everytime they ask for additional paper, it take very long time to get back to me. I mean, they could have told me "you've done this, we can't give you visa". But, they are not telling me anything at all. They know that I've been to Turkey about 6 months and I own 100% of the the company and it is still running. This doesn't make any sense to me at all. 
They definetely know my what my intensions are. I'm sure they know my background in Turkey and in the USA. Thank you!


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## business man (Aug 24, 2008)

Twostep, I'm Turkish. I was born in Turkey and never lived in any other country other than USA.


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## RICHNTRISH (Jun 4, 2008)

From what i hear the slow processing and lack of information from them is quite normal , scary when its a situation like this , at least you have somebody there keeping things ticking over . Its storys like this that worries me about selling up everything here and moving over on an E2.
I wonder if your being from a Muslim country has any bearing on it given the current climate.


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## business man (Aug 24, 2008)

RICHNTRIS, I've been thinking about what you just said about me being from Muslim country. This might be the reason, but I am not very sure about that. This person must be crazy not to give me visa because I'm from Muslim country. Not good reason at all


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## Fatbrit (May 8, 2008)

business man said:


> RICHNTRIS, I've been thinking about what you just said about me being from Muslim country. This might be the reason, but I am not very sure about that. This person must be crazy not to give me visa because I'm from Muslim country. Not good reason at all


They'll usually inform you if it's for "background checks". Although, as you've already had student visas, you must be in the system all ready and I doubt it's for these. Nor do I believe it is specifically because of your previous status, although some consulates do frown upon a change of status to E2 while in the States. 

How robust was your E2 submission: business plan, required investment, provision of employment, etc.?


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## business man (Aug 24, 2008)

Fatbrit, My business plan was professionaly prepared (what we will do in 2008 and 2009, How many more locations we are going to open, how many more employees we're going to hire, etc.). Everything they asked was given to them. 
I just wonder if they care I lose money right now or not. Don't they know that I am the only owner of that business and it is still running for months by employess. We're getting into busy season (Christmas). I have to be there or I will have to file a bankrupcy. 
I don't know if this will help you all, but I currently have 4 locations in different malls...these are kiosk business. Do you think this might also be the reason they are giving me hard time?


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## Fatbrit (May 8, 2008)

business man said:


> Fatbrit, My business plan was professionaly prepared (what we will do in 2008 and 2009, How many more locations we are going to open, how many more employees we're going to hire, etc.). Everything they asked was given to them.
> I just wonder if they care I lose money right now or not. Don't they know that I am the only owner of that business and it is still running for months by employess. We're getting into busy season (Christmas). I have to be there or I will have to file a bankrupcy.
> I don't know if this will help you all, but I currently have 4 locations in different malls...these are kiosk business. Do you think this might also be the reason they are giving me hard time?


The answer to your question is that they do not care. And there's not much you can do about it since you have no real judicial remedies.

Are the mall leases monthly or longer term? The latter would be better. Also, are the employees waged, wage plus commission or self-employed? Again, the latter -- although the wage + commission is possibly acceptable provided the wage meets at least the minimum.


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## YaGatDatRite (Aug 7, 2008)

As has been suggested in previous posts, this appears to be simply a case of USCIS sitting on its fat lazy ass and dragging things merrily along. What does your lawyer think of this inordinate delay? Be aware that investor petitions DO take longer than normal. how much longer -- take a wild guess. Everything is doubly delayed these days, and with all the provisions they have post 911 , you be lucky they're moving on this one at all

That said, one last resort might be to get your US lawyer sue USCIS in federal court -- basically a circuit court that has jurisdiction over your district. Once their collective behinds are a target, they do get up and do things in a hurry.


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## Fatbrit (May 8, 2008)

YaGatDatRite said:


> As has been suggested in previous posts, this appears to be simply a case of USCIS sitting on its fat lazy ass and dragging things merrily along. What does your lawyer think of this inordinate delay? Be aware that investor petitions DO take longer than normal. how much longer -- take a wild guess. Everything is doubly delayed these days, and with all the provisions they have post 911 , you be lucky they're moving on this one at all
> 
> That said, one last resort might be to get your US lawyer sue USCIS in federal court -- basically a circuit court that has jurisdiction over your district. Once their collective behinds are a target, they do get up and do things in a hurry.


Whilst USCIS (under DHS) would have adjudicated his initial change of status to E2, his current petition will be adjudicated by the consular section of DOS. Strange, I know.

Don't know whether the a US District Court would have jurisdiction for a writ of mandamus filed by an E2 petitioner living outside the US. There are few legal avenues of redress open for applicants for non-immigrant visas outside the US.

Perhaps the initial stage would be try the Senator where his businesses are located or he was last resident. All senators have staff who deal solely with immigration issues.


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## YaGatDatRite (Aug 7, 2008)

Yes, fatbrit, that is what it is -- writ of mandamus petition.

But you're right, if he's living outside the US and can't get back in, he isn't a US permanent resident. So no chance of suing them. Didn't realize that.

But there have been successful cases (we know one such person) that went to court against USCIS. That guy was however a Green card holder and was trying to become US citizen and then sponsor his family in his home country.


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## YaGatDatRite (Aug 7, 2008)

*Student visa???*

On second thoughts, is he even allowed to run a business on a student visa or some such thing?? Ain't that illegal?

Should be a US citizen or resident alien to open a business, I would imagine.


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## Tiffani (Dec 4, 2007)

Anyone with work authorisation from the USCIS is eligible to open and run a business, so you don't have to be a US citizen or PR necessarily, except that proving ties to the home country for your visa application could prove difficult if you've got a thriving business in the US. With that said, I know someone who was on a J-2 visa with work authorisation, started several business, and eventually switched over to an investor visa because she's single-handedly keeping this part of town alive economically while her husband does his Postdoc. 

F-1 students do have work authorisation but it is restricted to no more than 20 hours per week on-campus during the semester and 40 hours/week on-campus during breaks (exceptions: Optional Practical Training and Curricular Practical Training). In both cases of the exceptions, the work performed has to be commensurate with the level and field of study undertaken. So unless his degree requires opening and running a successful business as part of his CPT/OPT, he's most likely violated his F-1 status. Which the State Department is not going to smile on (go figure). 

Of course, if he opened the business whilst in another status than F-1 (including F-1 OPT which a lot of students think is different but is still F-1), the situation may be different.


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## Fatbrit (May 8, 2008)

YaGatDatRite said:


> On second thoughts, is he even allowed to run a business on a student visa or some such thing?? Ain't that illegal?
> 
> Should be a US citizen or resident alien to open a business, I would imagine.


He changed status to an E2 -- which does allow him to run a business. However, this may also be his downfall since some consulates don't seem to like you using this method.


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## Tiffani (Dec 4, 2007)

Two more comments as I just read through this thread properly:

Being from Turkey is unlikely to be an impediment. Turkey is friendly toward the US and (as far as I know) is not listed on the countries of "special interest", nor do Turkish citizens have to enter under "special registration" like citizens of some other countries. As Fatbrit said, the USCIS has his files so if, as an individual, he were considered a threat, that would've been decided long ago.

Re: applying for F-1 renewals in Canada vs the home country. This is extremely common among F-1 students and in many cases they are successful. The caveat is that if they are denied the visa in Canada, they have to go home to apply again and are not eligible to re-enter the US on the expired visa (unless they lie at the Port and do it anyway, but that's very very illegal). Most of the time students want to keep their F-1 visa updated just in case they have to travel abroad, but don't always want to go all the way back home to do it. the Embassies in Canada don't seem to have a problem with this, so far. Remember, the F-1 I-20 is what determines the legal length of stay for an F-1 student, not the expiration date of the visa stamp itself. Likewise, the I-94 will say F-1 D/S (duration of status) instead of giving a hard and fast end date by which they have to leave the country. So the visa stamp is only necessary for admission into the US, not to remain legally as an F-1 visa holder.


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## synthia (Apr 18, 2007)

There is another complaint about the consulate in Turkey in this forum. Unfortunately, all you can do is keep replying to their requests.


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## business man (Aug 24, 2008)

First of all, I thank all of your for helping me about this issue... 

I do not have a green card. After I graduated from college, I had 1 year work permistion (OPT). Within 1 year, I decided to open my own business. 

To be honest with you, I really have no idea why they are giving me hard time on this. To me, it seems like they are very busy. I just called them a few minutes ago, but the operator was so rude to me that he didn't even talk to me (he just transfered me somewhere and nobody answered my call). I tried to call them 4 times today, no answer at all! 

All the contracts I have are 1-year contracts. I pay the employees hourly. I proved them how much they get paid hourly and how much money they make monthly and yearly.

Again, I thank all of you! I read everything carefully and analysis what you say...


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## YaGatDatRite (Aug 7, 2008)

*P + P = P*

Patience, and the election of a new Prez, may be the solution to your problems.

God bless (America).


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## business man (Aug 24, 2008)

I'm about to lose my business. I was supposed get 3 more locations this summer. And, summer is over! 

I guess I can't do anything other than waiting.

Any more suggestions other than waiting?


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## twostep (Apr 3, 2008)

I read through the E2 requirements. 
Where do several sales kiosks in malls selling seasonal items with hourly staff show substantional investment/trade?


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## business man (Aug 24, 2008)

twostep, Well, my only seasonal kiosk is Christmas Ornaments which we have two kiosks openning in the beginning of November thru December. Other than that we sunglasses kiosks are open whole year even in November and December.


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## Fatbrit (May 8, 2008)

business man said:


> twostep, Well, my only seasonal kiosk is Christmas Ornaments which we have two kiosks openning in the beginning of November thru December. Other than that we sunglasses kiosks are open whole year even in November and December.


There is no minimum listed for the investment. However, it would be unusual to get a visa for less than $150k on the table unless there was something amazing in the business plan. Are you close to or above this figure? If you've started the business on any less, I wouldn't hold out too much hope for a renewal.


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## business man (Aug 24, 2008)

Fatbrit, I showed over $200,000 transfered to my business account. I showed them that I have spent somewhere around $120,000. 
By the way, I am not renewing my visa. This is my first time for E-2...


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## Fatbrit (May 8, 2008)

business man said:


> Fatbrit, I showed over $200,000 transfered to my business account. I showed them that I have spent somewhere around $120,000.
> By the way, I am not renewing my visa. This is my first time for E-2...


$120k is a little on the low side but it should be enough. They sometimes obsess about the origin of the funds -- hope there's a nice and clean paper trail.

Agreed on last part -- your first via but for your second time in E2 status.


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## business man (Aug 24, 2008)

Right, Fatbrit...

My lawyer in the US also can't believe why I can't get the visa. She says that it usually takes time but not this long. She says that Consulate wants to be sure how hard I try to go to USA and do business...


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## business man (Aug 24, 2008)

I still haven't heard anything from the constulate yet. My company will go bankrupcy soon if I am not there. They are keep telling me that they will have an answer within a few days, but they are not telling me anything....This has been going on like this for over 2 months now. 
Do you guys think that I should apply for other type of visa? I need to go there and sell my car and cancel all the contracts I have under my name and pay all of my credit card bills. I have alot to do in the states.
Any suggestions???


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## mavi (Oct 6, 2008)

*E2*



business man said:


> I still haven't heard anything from the constulate yet. My company will go bankrupcy soon if I am not there. They are keep telling me that they will have an answer within a few days, but they are not telling me anything....This has been going on like this for over 2 months now.
> Do you guys think that I should apply for other type of visa? I need to go there and sell my car and cancel all the contracts I have under my name and pay all of my credit card bills. I have alot to do in the states.
> Any suggestions???


hey, business man.What is the result? Did you get your visa? I am praying for you. I also will apply for E2 visa soon.I am from Turkey.I might have few questions.I guess your unfortunate experience could help all of us.


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