# Electrics - UK to Portugal -Girl Abroad!



## TAO22 (Dec 30, 2010)

Hi Everyone,

Can anyone give me some basic advice please on what to do with my tumble drier and freezer to work them safely here in Portugal.

Both have UK plugs fitted and on smaller electrical appliances like lamps I have used the small travel converter plugs. However, not being the most electrically minded female (major understatement!) I am concerned that these won't be suitable to use on large appliances?
Do I need to change the plugs.. and if so.. how?.. The UK plugs have 3 wires (pos,neg,earth) and Portugal only two pins? Or is there an adapter than can handle higher voltages perhaps for larger appliances... other than the single plug versions I already have.

Any help with this would be greatly appreciated....now we are coming into the rainy season the tumble drier will be sorely needed 

Many Thanks!


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## Ingles (Feb 2, 2009)

Unless you have a Earth system built into your house you could/can get a nasty shock .
best bet is to get a competent electrician in to check your system as certain appliances NEED an earth.


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## paramonte (Sep 9, 2007)

Although the usual travel adapters having an earth connection, they may be not rated for high currents of the big appliances such a tumble dryer, which can cause them to heat up. So, for those big apliences I would take the UK plugs and put the correctly rated pt plugs you can buy in AKI or the like.

How do you check the plug´s rate? Check out in the actual UK plugs what is the max. currente writen there, which might be 12 Amps or the like. Then buy the pt plugs rated with the same max. current. If you use lower rated plugs the apliance will work, but the plug will heat-up. Of course you should buy the plugs with an earth connection, mind you all the high rate ones have this.


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## paramonte (Sep 9, 2007)

Oops could not edit the above message but here it goes: one usual misconceptiona about PT plugs is that they all miss the ground connection since you can only see 2 pins, unlike the UK plugs where you can see 3 pins. 

In PT grounded plugs the ground conector is not a pin, is rather a plate discretely embeded in the plastic or ceramic body of the plug (I am talking about the plain 230 V plugs)


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## TAO22 (Dec 30, 2010)

Ingles said:


> Unless you have a Earth system built into your house you could/can get a nasty shock .
> best bet is to get a competent electrician in to check your system as certain appliances NEED an earth.



Hi Ingles,

Thanks for that advice, and yes it seems like a sensible option. Where I live is in the middle of a national park so it may be a challenge finding someone here suitably qualified (most people are farmers etc). Out of interest, the house has a fuse board in a cupboard outside which is fairly modern. On inspection there are several circuits with each one having a seperate fuse....is this what you mean by an 'earth system' please? Sorry for asking but electrics really aren't my strong point (as you can see  )


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## siobhanwf (Mar 20, 2009)

All the larger ROUND plugs have eart connections. The earth is on the inside once you open the plug up. The earth is itself is the attachment in the centre. With the live and neutral on either side.

There are 2 types of round plugs. Look carefully at EACH plug they will be marked with the ampage. 5 or 15. 

The lightweight FLAT type plugs are only really suitable for things like light!

And of course the heavy duty ones are MORE EXPENSIVE?

It is something you can do yourself.


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## TAO22 (Dec 30, 2010)

paramonte said:


> Oops could not edit the above message but here it goes: one usual misconceptiona about PT plugs is that they all miss the ground connection since you can only see 2 pins, unlike the UK plugs where you can see 3 pins.
> 
> In PT grounded plugs the ground conector is not a pin, is rather a plate discretely embeded in the plastic or ceramic body of the plug (I am talking about the plain 230 V plugs)


Hi Paramonte,
Thanks so much for that information, it has helped to clear things up a bit for me regarding the difference in the plugs. A question please though......if I buy the portugese two pin plug to the correct rating (ie 12 amp) and fit it to my tumble dryer.......where does the earth wire go then?? Normally all 3 wires connect in the plug.....does the portugese plate cover the earth wire connection?? Sorry to sound so dense but I haven't seen the inside of the portugese version to know if there are 3 connector points for wires and just two pins ...... Cheers!


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## siobhanwf (Mar 20, 2009)

TAO22 said:


> Hi Paramonte,
> Thanks so much for that information, it has helped to clear things up a bit for me regarding the difference in the plugs. A question please though......if I buy the portugese two pin plug to the correct rating (ie 12 amp) and fit it to my tumble dryer.......where does the earth wire go then?? Normally all 3 wires connect in the plug.....does the portugese plate cover the earth wire connection?? Sorry to sound so dense but I haven't seen the inside of the portugese version to know if there are 3 connector points for wires and just two pins ...... Cheers!



Have a look at my previous post and it tells you what to do


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## paramonte (Sep 9, 2007)

The rate I gave you (12 ams) was an example, you have to check out the actual UK plug and read the max. current there. I would venture that for a thumble dryer 16 amps rate is more likely. You are never wrong with a rating above the read value. 

How do you know what is the ground wire? To be on the safe side when you disassemble the UK plug, the groung wire will be the one connected to the central pin in the plug (the ground pin). That same wire will be also the ground in the PT plug, which is the one that DOES NOT conect to either salient pins, it conects to the central plate (the PT ground )


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## Ingles (Feb 2, 2009)

TAO22 said:


> Hi Ingles,
> 
> Thanks for that advice, and yes it seems like a sensible option. Where I live is in the middle of a national park so it may be a challenge finding someone here suitably qualified (most people are farmers etc). Out of interest, the house has a fuse board in a cupboard outside which is fairly modern. On inspection there are several circuits with each one having a seperate fuse....is this what you mean by an 'earth system' please? Sorry for asking but electrics really aren't my strong point (as you can see  )


Where your Fuse box is , go outside the house & see if there is a "plate" Plastic/ if old house metal in the wall in line with the Fuse Box in the house,if there is you MAY have a Earth !
(I say MAY ,because I had a house once that had the plate ,behind NO earth wire connected)
The earth Wire is much thicker that the normal Wires & is Green & Yellow. 
If you not sure it's well worth getting a "sparky" in 
Better to safe that sorry,one of your neighbours will know of somebody


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## paramonte (Sep 9, 2007)

Since around middle eigthies ground pin is compulsory in every jack and plug in PT.

Houses made in seventies ground plug compulsory only in the kitchen and bathroom


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## TAO22 (Dec 30, 2010)

Hi Both

Thanks for the advice, which I have to say makes perfect sense to me now. Basically then the Portugese plug is no different to the english...bar one pin less...but has a plate where the earth wire connects to inside the plug instead.....Now I understand 
Have just checked the tumble dryer and it has a standard 13 amp fuse rating 220/240 volts so I am sure I will be able to just buy a new portugese plug.....and off we go! Here's to many a rainy day tumble drying.....and a big thanks for all your help with this


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## wink (Aug 23, 2011)

I am sure that all the above advice is correct, however, my advice is to do as Ingles says and get a qualified electrician in to do the work. There will obviously be a cost, but far less than the cost of rebuilding your property should the wrong connection result in a fire.


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## RichardHenshall (Jul 26, 2009)

Bear in mind that a standard UK ringmain circuit can deliver 30 amps in total to all sockets on the ring, including 13 amps each to a twin socket where in PT the ringmain system isn't used and an individual socket and all others on the same circuit breaker are individually and collectively limited to the same current (16 amps total (approx 3700 W) in our house if not generally). For instance, using a washing machine and tumble dryer simultaneously on the same circuit may be a problem.

Just because the plug and socket are rated at 16A in PT against 13A in UK doesn't avoid potentially much more dangerous (and hidden until catastrophic) overloading of the building's wiring. The UK plug is fused to protect the appliance and it's cabling, the PT house is fused to protect the house cabling - the individual appliance is only indirectly protected.


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## TAO22 (Dec 30, 2010)

RichardHenshall said:


> Bear in mind that a standard UK ringmain circuit can deliver 30 amps in total to all sockets on the ring, including 13 amps each to a twin socket where in PT the ringmain system isn't used and an individual socket and all others on the same circuit breaker are individually and collectively limited to the same current (16 amps total (approx 3700 W) in our house if not generally). For instance, using a washing machine and tumble dryer simultaneously on the same circuit may be a problem.
> 
> Just because the plug and socket are rated at 16A in PT against 13A in UK doesn't avoid potentially much more dangerous (and hidden until catastrophic) overloading of the building's wiring. The UK plug is fused to protect the appliance and it's cabling, the PT house is fused to protect the house cabling - the individual appliance is only indirectly protected.


Hi Richard,

Thanks for this advice. It seems then that the process of changing the plugs is easy.....but the main point of concern is whether the house electrics are suitable to handle the loading. On closer inspection of my fuseboard in the cupboard outside there appears to be 3 circuits/fuses.....one reads LUZ (lights) the other Tomadas (??) and the final one M.Lava (washing machine)....it seems the washing machine circuit is a seperate one altogether and I suspect for the reasons you give above. Given all this additional information, and the fact it's a rental property I think the advice to get an electrician in is best. I will be so worried if plugging in a freezer and tumble dryer means there is a fire risk otherwise!!!  Now I just have to try and find a suitably qualified one here near Marvao....which is a challenge itself as most neighbours are goats!!LOL


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## RichardHenshall (Jul 26, 2009)

TAO22 said:


> Hi Richard,
> 
> Thanks for this advice. It seems then that the process of changing the plugs is easy.....but the main point of concern is whether the house electrics are suitable to handle the loading. On closer inspection of my fuseboard in the cupboard outside there appears to be 3 circuits/fuses.....one reads LUZ (lights) the other Tomadas (??) and the final one M.Lava (washing machine)....it seems the washing machine circuit is a seperate one altogether and I suspect for the reasons you give above. Given all this additional information, and the fact it's a rental property I think the advice to get an electrician in is best. I will be so worried if plugging in a freezer and tumble dryer means there is a fire risk otherwise!!!  Now I just have to try and find a suitably qualified one here near Marvao....which is a challenge itself as most neighbours are goats!!LOL


A _tomada _is a socket. As you say, it seems they've anticipated the problem so you're probably OK. Just don't turn on everything together! You will also have a combined overall limit on the total current the house can draw (_potência_) before the whole supply will trip. If you only have three circuits that may be low enough to protect you (or the house) anyway but very inconvenient if it happens when you're out and the freezer goes off.


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## TAO22 (Dec 30, 2010)

RichardHenshall said:


> A _tomada _is a socket. As you say, it seems they've anticipated the problem so you're probably OK. Just don't turn on everything together! You will also have a combined overall limit on the total current the house can draw (_potência_) before the whole supply will trip. If you only have three circuits that may be low enough to protect you (or the house) anyway but very inconvenient if it happens when you're out and the freezer goes off.


Hi again,

Yes I think from looking at the fuse board the house can cope with it given the separate circuit for the washing machine etc. That said, I understand your point re the potencia....this I am not sure of, but I know when I set up the electricity account I had to chose a higher tariff than the basic one which didn't give enough potential. If I work on the basis that I can't run both the washing machine and tumble drier together...and only use one at a time....do you think it will be safe....or would you still try to find an electrician? I think the worse case scenario would be that if the circuit overloaded the potential then the fuse would trip out cutting everything off...right??
Thanks again for all your help with this.....


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## RichardHenshall (Jul 26, 2009)

TAO22 said:


> Hi again,
> 
> Yes I think from looking at the fuse board the house can cope with it given the separate circuit for the washing machine etc. That said, I understand your point re the potencia....this I am not sure of, but I know when I set up the electricity account I had to chose a higher tariff than the basic one which didn't give enough potential. If I work on the basis that I can't run both the washing machine and tumble drier together...and only use one at a time....do you think it will be safe....or would you still try to find an electrician? I think the worse case scenario would be that if the circuit overloaded the potential then the fuse would trip out cutting everything off...right??
> Thanks again for all your help with this.....


I'm not an electrician (or a lawyer, so don't sue me) but I think the answer is yes, if each fuse/circuit-breaker is correctly rated for the cable (and _vice versa_) then the individual circuits should be protected if the fuse/circuit-breaker works correctly.

I suspect it may be possible to contract for a higher _potência _than the total of all your internal circuits can safely carry as it costs more and EDP wants your money. If so you may be paying for something you can't safely use with your current wiring system and the main EDP breaker won't protect you or your property properly. I think, due to cost, most people contract for a lower _potência _than the combined circuits can handle simply because they don't use everything at the same time.

Our house main board has 7 x 16A circuits and 2 x 10A lighting circuits and then we also have a pool pump and a 9 kW immersion heater on subdistribution boards. We would only need to safely load to capacity less than half of the circuits and our main EDP supply would trip (20.7 kVA which is the maximum domestic _potência_) but we've not managed to do that yet.


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