# Residencia



## 90199 (Mar 21, 2010)

We found out yesterday that here in the Canary Isles and probably in the rest of the Spanish territories, that our huge green residencia certificate now has to be renewed after 5 years.

This affects Canary Island residents more because of the discounted travel fares, probably Balleares and the other colonies too.

The authorities here were not aware of the change in legislation, until Boss Lady questioned them yesterday. Cost €10,50 per person.


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## thrax (Nov 13, 2008)

I've heard this too but also others say that unless you have a renewal date on the certificate it is not necessary. Perhaps someone on here will know the truth? It's out there somewhere....


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

I think this has been discussed on the forum before. I think there are a few factors to consider;

Is there an expiry date?
Does it state that it's permanent?
Mine does not state that it's permanent and does not have an expiry date. I have been told by our local extranjaria that it's valid forever although I could exchange it for one that stated it was permanent if I wished to (which would cost and be hassle).

I seem to recall that others on here said "why bother?".


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

snikpoh said:


> I think this has been discussed on the forum before. I think there are a few factors to consider;
> 
> Is there an expiry date?
> Does it state that it's permanent?
> ...


Yes this has been discussed before and I think it became evident that there were many variations on said document. I've just googled this on Google images 'cos I wanted to post a photo of what my document is like. I looked at 4 and none of them are exactly like mine. Mine says... (underlining and bold is the same as the document, but I have put "permanente" in red)
....
Certifica: Que conformidad con lo estabeicido en Blablabla, y teniendo en cuenta que este documento sólo prueba la inscripción en el registro Central de Extranjeros, si se presenta en unión del pasaporte o documento de identidad en vigor la persona que a continuación se indica, ha solicitado y obtenido *su incripción en el Registro Central de la Policia y de la Guardia Civil, *como residente comunitario con carácter permanente en España, desde el quince de agosto....

However, I tend to think it's permanente until they decide it isn't any more.
What do others think?


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## 90199 (Mar 21, 2010)

Ours too did not have an expiry date, however to obtain the the travel discounts we now have to have a certificate from the Padron Office and a valid Residencia Certificate the has been issued within the last five years. The ones we handed in were seven years old, we also needed two up to date photographs.

You on the Iberian Part of Spain live in a different world to us in the Canary Islands and your what would be expired certificates here, would be rejected. However anyone on the forum living the Balleares Ceuta or Melilla, will benefit from this thread.

Apparently the new issue certificate is a different size.


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## 90199 (Mar 21, 2010)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Yes this has been discussed before and I think it became evident that there were many variations on said document. I've just googled this on Google images 'cos I wanted to post a photo of what my document is like. I looked at 4 and none of them are exactly like mine. Mine says... (underlining and bold is the same as the document, but I have put "permanente" in red)
> ....
> Certifica: Que conformidad con lo estabeicido en Blablabla, y teniendo en cuenta que este documento sólo prueba la inscripción en el registro Central de Extranjeros, si se presenta en unión del pasaporte o documento de identidad en vigor la persona que a continuación se indica, ha solicitado y obtenido *su incripción en el Registro Central de la Policia y de la Guardia Civil, *como residente comunitario con carácter permanente en España, desde el quince de agosto....
> 
> ...


The lady who took our renewals, checked with higher authorities and was informed that the regulations for the Canaries have changed, probably the European and African parts of Spain also, I don't know.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Hepa said:


> The lady who took our renewals, checked with higher authorities and was informed that the regulations for the Canaries have changed, probably the European and African parts of Spain also, I don't know.


I think it would be weird if things had only changed in the Canaries, but as we know, anything is possible!!


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## CapnBilly (Jun 7, 2011)

The national law hasn't changed.its based on an EU Directive. Once you have been legally resident ( this means properly registered) then you are automatically "Permanente". You don't need to renew your certificate to show this, BUT you can if you want to. The new certificates are credit sized. But otherwise they are the same. 

It's just poor training as usual. It's fairly typical that " higher authorities" don't know what the law says.


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

CapnBilly said:


> The national law hasn't changed.its based on an EU Directive. Once you have been legally resident ( this means properly registered) then you are automatically "Permanente". You don't need to renew your certificate to show this, BUT you can if you want to. The new certificates are credit sized. But otherwise they are the same.
> 
> It's just poor training as usual. It's fairly typical that " higher authorities" don't know what the law says.


That's what I thought - but didn't like to say. 

I'm glad you've confirmed my belief.


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

Our original certificates didn't have an expiry date, but after just over 7 years here we decided to get the "con caracter permanante" ones last month. It probably wasn't strictly necessary but we figured it might avoid any possible complications that could arise in future (such as when OH registers for state healthcare later this year when he becomes a pensioner). It was very easy, just the application form to fill in once more, go to the relevant office at the Comisiaria de Policia Nacional with that and the original certificate, plus our passports and a colour photocopy of them, and an extra copy of the application form. Paid the €10.50 each at a nearby bank, then went straight back and collected the new tarjeta sized certificates.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

CapnBilly said:


> The national law hasn't changed.its based on an EU Directive. Once you have been legally resident ( this means properly registered) then you are automatically "Permanente". You don't need to renew your certificate to show this, BUT you can if you want to. The new certificates are credit sized. But otherwise they are the same.
> 
> It's just poor training as usual. It's fairly typical that " higher authorities" don't know what the law says.


But Hepa says


> Ours too did not have an expiry date, however to obtain the the travel discounts we now have to have a certificate from the Padron Office and a valid *Residencia Certificate the has been issued within the last five years*. The ones we handed in were seven years old, we also needed two up to date photographs.


So for that reason it *is* different in the Canaries, a renewal *was* necessary, and the "higher authorities" were right, weren't they


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## 90199 (Mar 21, 2010)

CapnBilly said:


> The national law hasn't changed.its based on an EU Directive. Once you have been legally resident ( this means properly registered) then you are automatically "Permanente". You don't need to renew your certificate to show this, BUT you can if you want to. The new certificates are credit sized. But otherwise they are the same.
> 
> It's just poor training as usual. It's fairly typical that " higher authorities" don't know what the law says.


Persons here with Resedencia certificates over 5 years old are being refused discounted travel tickets. I paid €10,50 for the renewal, this will allow me almost 50% discount. A flight from Madrid to Tenerife, even standing only on Ryan Air I will save €50 almost €100 on proper airlines.

Higher authorities or poor training, hey when it comes to Brass this lad from the Broad Acres knows what he is doing, who gives a rugger how the law is interpreted, it is the money in my pocket that I am concerned about.ound:


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## CapnBilly (Jun 7, 2011)

No, actually they are not. Its a direct breach of the Eu Directive, which says :

"1. Possession of a registration certificate as referred to in Article 8, of a document certifying permanent residence, of a certificate attesting submission of an application for a family member residence card, of a residence card or of a permanent residence card, may under no circumstances be made a precondition for the exercise of a right or the completion of an administrative formality, as entitlement to rights may be attested by any other means of proof."


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

CapnBilly said:


> No, actually they are not. Its a direct breach of the Eu Directive, which says :
> 
> "1. Possession of a registration certificate as referred to in Article 8, of a document certifying permanent residence, of a certificate attesting submission of an application for a family member residence card, of a residence card or of a permanent residence card, may under no circumstances be made a precondition for the exercise of a right or the completion of an administrative formality, as entitlement to rights may be attested by any other means of proof."


That's interesting but on the other hand ...
...here we are back to square one again. It really doesn't matter to the person in the street, or the Hepas in El Hierro, what the directive says because if Spain intereprets it as "X" then"X" it will be for all involved in Spain and there's very little that you, as a resident of Spain can do about it. You can complain and you can take it to Brussels if you want, and five years down the line you might get a reply. Meanwhile, in the real world, if you want to do something you'll have to comply with the Spanish government, so all those in the Canaries are advised to renew their residency certificate if more than 5 years old if you want to have discounted travel tickets! 
And the people who are handling this in the offices are doing what they've been told to do, so are they really poorly trained? As far as the Spansih government is concerned, no they're not.
It may be an idea to make a complaint to (??) as well, but for the time being it's down to the extranjería.


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

Hepa said:


> Persons here with Resedencia certificates over 5 years old are being refused discounted travel tickets. I paid €10,50 for the renewal, this will allow me almost 50% discount. A flight from Madrid to Tenerife, even standing only on Ryan Air I will save €50 almost €100 on proper airlines.
> 
> Higher authorities or poor training, hey when it comes to Brass this lad from the Broad Acres knows what he is doing, who gives a rugger how the law is interpreted, it is the money in my pocket that I am concerned about.ound:


Hepa, when you renewed, did you have to prove income and health care again or it was it simply a 'paper exercise'?


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

snikpoh said:


> Hepa, when you renewed, did you have to prove income and health care again or it was it simply a 'paper exercise'?


We did not have to, as I said in my earlier post we just had to present the application form + 1 copy, our passports + 1 colour copy, and the old original certificate. Just in case, we'd obtained up to date padron certificates (our Ayuntamiento doesn't charge for those) and new photos, but they weren't asked for. That was in line with what the guidance notes on the website said.


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## 90199 (Mar 21, 2010)

snikpoh said:


> Hepa, when you renewed, did you have to prove income and health care again or it was it simply a 'paper exercise'?


I have never had to prove income or arrangements for Health Care.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Hepa said:


> I have never had to prove income or arrangements for Health Care.


that would be because 7 years ago no-one had to - but since August 2012 it has been a requirement , as I'm sure you know

logically, if you're already resident & renewing (whether the law of the land actually requires it or not - & the Canaries isn't the only area known to be telling people they have to, btw) you shouldn't have to - but I & others have been wondering if the powers that be are applying the new rules to those who _do _re-register


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