# FATCA request from my bank. I have a US expat wife.



## twelvestocks (Aug 9, 2021)

I am a UK citizen, born in the UK, I've never visited the US or had any income or financial interest there. 
This hasn't stopped my bank requesting that I report under FATCA with all the requirements that entails. 

My wife is a US expat of 15 years, with no US accounts, assets or income, but she does have to do her annual US tax return. We married in September last year after 6 years together. This meant on her last tax return she had to put her status as 'married/ filing separately'. Although we already lived together, we don't have any joint financial interests, but we have recently applied for a joint mortgage on a new property. It could be one of these two things that triggered my bank. 

None of the above qualifies me as a 'US person for tax purposes' by any definition I can find and if I'm not then I shouldn't be affected by FATCA. 

I don't want to report under FATCA as I would have to register with the IRS to do so, and I object to giving personal and financial information to a foreign government.

Is my interpretation correct? My bank is seemingly obdurate without explanation.


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## Nononymous (Jul 12, 2011)

Your analysis is correct: you are not a US person and you have no US reporting obligations, With the exception of any joint accounts held with your wife, you should not be subject to FATCA reporting.

It would be useful if you could reproduce any correspondence from the bank, just to review the wording (hiding any private information of course). Are they specifically telling you that you are a US person and must provide an SSN or ITIN for FATCA purposes, or is it just a more general enquiry that might be sent to all customers? (We've occasionally had panicked questions from people who've received what is pretty clearly a form letter sent to everyone.)

The mortgage application may have triggered this, but your wife changing her filing status will not have had any effect. The IRS would not communicate that back to your bank.

Just so you know, if your wife chooses Married Filing Separately, she is not required to identify you to the IRS. She can simply write in "NRA spouse" without any sort of tax number (SSN or ITIN).

PS on edit: If your bank continues to be stupid, threaten to take your business elsewhere. On second thought, depending on UK customer-service culture, that might not be a smart plan.


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## Nononymous (Jul 12, 2011)

PPS Note also that a mortgage is not reportable under FATCA or FBAR or anything else. It's a liability, not an asset. The existence of a mortgage should not be getting the bank all excited about FATCA. What sometimes happens is that during the financing process a large sum of money is briefly held in a regular joint account. This would be reportable.

A related concern for your wife, if she chooses to be super-duper-compliant on her US taxes, is that exchange-rate fluctuations can result in "phantom gains" when it's time to refinance the mortgage. It's utterly stupid and she'd be well advised to ignore it, but in theory she could owe US capital gains taxes depending on which way the currency moves.


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## twelvestocks (Aug 9, 2021)

Thank you very much. You've confirmed what I thought, which is why I asked the question on here. It gives me more confidence going forward with the bank. 

I don't have the letter to hand to share the actual wording (I'm at work, it's at home). It was a general request with little specifics. I think I had bad luck with the first person I called at the bank, who was stubborn and I don't think too well informed. I spoke to someone more sensible yesterday and I'm expecting a new letter from them. 

I'm with HSBC and they are known to be particularly officious with FATCA, due to them being so big and active in the US. This does leave moving banks as an option. Not until the house move has gone through though! 

We won't be holding the large sum of money, the deposit and fees are held in my name, and the mortgage advance gets paid to the conveyancing solicitor prior to completion, so I don't think even this is an issue. 

Anyway thanks again.


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## Nononymous (Jul 12, 2011)

Sounds like it's under control.


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## Moulard (Feb 3, 2017)

I gather some banks use the IRS forms to meet THEIR FATCA reporting and compliance requirements (As opposed to yours, which as you note, you do not have)

I think HSBC is such a bank... if so, you can always complete and provide to the bank the IRS Form W-8BEN as a statement that you are neither a US Citizen or other US Person.





Nononymous said:


> PPS Note also that a mortgage is not reportable under FATCA or FBAR or anything else.


More relevant for personal reporting rather than bank reporting requirements, but in some circumstances a mortgage might actually be reportable. 

Some time back IRS Counsel released a memorandum that highlighted that a financial instrument, if used like a financial account, could in fact be reportable as an account, even if as a whole, the instrument type was in itself not normally considered a financial account.

While mostly focused on issues related to credit cards, it identified for example, that ordinarily a credit card, being a line of credit would not be reportable, but that a credit card that was treated like a debit card (ie balance always positive) and used like a financial account could in fact be considered a financial account because it was being used as such.

Taking that concept, the same principal might apply for some types of mortgages. Consider for example a mortgage with a redraw facility, if ones wages were deposited into the mortgage and the mortgage was used as an everyday transactional account, it might in fact have taken on the character of a financial account.


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