# Advice for Mum moving back to UK?



## Britmart (Oct 11, 2018)

Hello,

My Mum (69 years old) has been living in Spain since 2005.

Within the last 2 and a half years she has battled breast cancer, had two hip operations and just recently her husband left her.

She would like to move back to the UK to be with loved ones but has no money and can’t work due to bad hips.

Can anyone give me advice on next steps and whether she can claim any benefits?

Many thanks

​​​​​​​Mark


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

How awful, poor thing.

Presumably she is a British citizen getting a UK state pension, so that would continue and she might also be able to get additional credits and benefits as well.

Does she have somewhere to live in the UK, with yourself or other relatives till she sorts herself out? Then you can get her on the council waiting list for sheltered housing.

Does she own property in Spain? If so It might be hard to get housing benefit in the UK.


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## JEFFCAZ09 (Oct 11, 2018)

If Mom has any arthritis try not to move her back to the wet damn cold UK, My Doctors specialist has been telling me for the last few years to get out of the UK if i want any quality of life as i too have osteoarthritis, disc compression & nerve damage. Which is why were doing the exact opposite with no money. Hubbys was offered a job with a relocation package of transport costs and deposit & 1st mths rent,, were leaving the UK in the next few weeks.. Would it not be possible to move yourself or another family member so tht she feels more settled less lonely. 
hope this helps you atall. Carol


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

JEFFCAZ09 said:


> If Mom has any arthritis try not to move her back to the wet damn cold UK, My Doctors specialist has been telling me for the last few years to get out of the UK if i want any quality of life as i too have osteoarthritis, disc compression & nerve damage. Which is why were doing the exact opposite with no money. Hubbys was offered a job with a relocation package of transport costs and deposit & 1st mths rent,, were leaving the UK in the next few weeks.. Would it not be possible to move yourself or another family member so tht she feels more settled less lonely.
> hope this helps you atall. Carol


Where I live we have high humidity all year round, & arthritis is very common., as are hip & knee replacements. The waiting list for a replacement at my local hospital is around 5 months atm. 

So, arthritis doesn't go away just because it's warmer. 


Britmart - your mum might be able to claim some kind of benefit from the UK, as long as Britain is in the EU at least 

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/living-in-spain#benefits


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## Isobella (Oct 16, 2014)

I think housing would depend if she owns property in Spain, she would need to declare it. Even if she does, she would still be entitled to pension credit if she only has basic pension.

A friend of mine in Spain was rapidly running out of money. They had been renting for years, was taking chunk out of their income. After her Husband died the situation became more critical with loss of his pension. We had to have a whip round for her air fare. On a visit to UK she took advice from CAB. Using her Sisters address she went on a waiting list for a pensioners apartment. Only took about 6 months wait. She now gets all the benefits and lives almost rent and council tax free.

Is there an Age Concern close to where she lives, they be able to help.


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## Isobella (Oct 16, 2014)

xabiachica said:


> Where I live we have high humidity all year round, & arthritis is very common., as are hip & knee replacements. The waiting list for a replacement at my local hospital is around 5 months atm.
> 
> So, arthritis doesn't go away just because it's warmer.
> 
> ]


True, a neighbour of mine used to come to CDS from Madrid. She found her arthritus worsened even though it was much warmer than Madrid.


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## Love Karma (Oct 10, 2018)

My late Fathers arthritis was always far worse in humid environments. But maybe you can ask Citizens Advice or similar on her behalf in the U.K as to her entitlements.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

There is NO link between humidity, temperature and osteo-arthritis.

Living in a pleasant climate might mean you have a more positive outlook on life and get more exercise, both of which can alleviate the symptoms. But it won't cure the condition.

Rapid changes in barometric pressure causes joint pain in some people (myself included), but that can happen anywhere.

https://www.healthline.com/health/arthritis-weather#treatment


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Alcalaina said:


> There is NO link between humidity, temperature and osteo-arthritis.
> 
> Living in a pleasant climate might mean you have a more positive outlook on life and get more exercise, both of which can alleviate the symptoms. But it won't cure the condition.
> 
> ...


I think we've discussed this before  

I definitely get more pain when the weather is about to change!


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## Love Karma (Oct 10, 2018)

Alcalaina said:


> There is NO link between humidity, temperature and osteo-arthritis.
> 
> Living in a pleasant climate might mean you have a more positive outlook on life and get more exercise, both of which can alleviate the symptoms. But it won't cure the condition.
> 
> Rapid changes in barometric pressure causes joint pain in some people (myself included), but that can happen anywhere.


I'm sure you may be scientifically correct but in my late Fathers case he always said onhigh humidity day when visiting Spain he felt as if his blood was thicker and that his muscles and tendons seemed to swell ...... again nothing scientific just his personal symptoms.


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## Allie-P (Feb 11, 2013)

Be aware !!

that UK British citizens returning from abroad, after living there permanently, will be subject to A Habitual Residence Test.

This is a comparitively new law made during David Cameron’s tenure. British citizens returning back to the U.K. are treated the same as EU newcomers.

They are not allowed to claim any benefits or housing for 3 months. This is to prevent EU citizens arriving in the U.K. and claiming from day 1.

My daughter fell foul of this law, last year, after asking for short-term help. She is a teacher and was let down when her contract for an International school went wrong. She was told by the benefits office to go away, stay on a friend’s sofa and return in 3 months. This, in spite of having a dependent child and paying into the tax system for many years. 

The law applies to pensioners, too - if they have been out of the country for more than six months.

Due to your mother’s ill health, make sure you check with all the authorities and help organisations, before she returns home. 

I wish her well.


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## Love Karma (Oct 10, 2018)

Allie-P said:


> Be aware !!
> 
> that UK British citizens returning from abroad, after living there permanently, will be subject to A Habitual Residence Test.
> 
> .


Your daughter was most unfortunate and an extremely rare case. In the overwhelming majority of cases this is simply not the case.


"*What is the habitual residence test*

The habitual residence test (HRT) is carried out on most EEA nationals who apply for benefits. The habitual residence part of the test is also carried out on some UK nationals who have been living or working abroad. *However, UK nationals automatically have the right to reside so don't have to satisfy the right to reside part of the HRT."*


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## Allie-P (Feb 11, 2013)

I beg to differ. My daughter, obviously, had the right to stay in the U.K. She is a citizen but was definitely NOT allowed to apply for benefits for 3 months - or receive any form of help with housing. 

We took it to MP level and he agreed with the ruling. A Mr Hillary Benn of Leeds !!

Unfortunate or not, it DID happen- which is why I wrote the post to ensure that the family of this poor lady could thoroughly investigate her entitlements, prior to her returning to the U.K.


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## Love Karma (Oct 10, 2018)

I was only pointing out your reference to the "The habitual residence test". As reflected in your quote in my post. I have not questioned anything regarding benefits or entitlements that you wrote, just the HRT. Also I never said it didn't happen, just that it was extremely rare. 

The quoted information I posted is directly from the U.K's Citizens advice website.


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## cermignano (Feb 9, 2017)

Could your mum get a cheap flight when her next pension payment comes in and then deal with the other stuff in Spain after that. Her welfare is obviously most important to you.


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

More misinformation posts. Can we please have some links to what everyone’s arguing about. You can’t just post stuff without some sort of link to officialdom


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## Love Karma (Oct 10, 2018)

Megsmum said:


> More misinformation posts. Can we please have some links to what everyone’s arguing about. You can’t just post stuff without some sort of link to officialdom


If you are referring to my post, unfortunately as it was only my 4th post it would not allow me to post the link, that is why I qualified that the quote was from Citizens Advice U.K website. As this is now above the 5 post restriction on posting links I have now been able to include the link.....

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/b...on/what-is-the-habitual-residence-test-EWSNI/


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

Love Karma said:


> If you are referring to my post, unfortunately as it was only my 4th post it would not allow me to post the link, that is why I qualified that the quote was from Citizens Advice U.K website. As this is now above the 5 post restriction on posting links I have now been able to include the link.....
> 
> https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/b...on/what-is-the-habitual-residence-test-EWSNI/


I was referring to all posts that display knowledge with little factual evidence 


Such as 


> However, if you've spent three months or more living or working abroad you could find yourself subject to the test when you return to the UK, particularly if you no longer have property or close family in the UK.





> Rules that came into force on 1 January 2014 mean that, if you're claiming income-based jobseeker's allowance and do need to show that you are habitually resident, you cannot be viewed as habitually resident until you've been living in the UK or elsewhere in the common travel area for at least three months. This means that if you claim income-based jobseeker's allowance immediately on your return to the UK from outside this area you won't receive this benefit for at least three month


Thereby proving that the post about the daughter was correct 


https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/b...british-and-irish-citizens-claiming-benefits/


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## Love Karma (Oct 10, 2018)

Megsmum said:


> I was referring to all posts that display knowledge with little factual evidence
> 
> 
> Such as
> ...


That was never in dispute. Just pointed out the facts and that a HRT was the exception and not the norm for a U.K National such as the lady in question. I felt the initial poster and her 69 year old Mother had enough on their plate already without the worry of something that in reality had little chance of ever happening. 

Quoted from Citizens Advice U.K 

_"The habitual residence part of the test is also carried out on some UK nationals who have been living or working abroad. However, UK nationals automatically have the right to reside so don't have to satisfy the right to reside part of the HRT"._


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Britmart said:


> Hello,
> 
> My Mum (69 years old) has been living in Spain since 2005.
> 
> ...


Can you not help your mother? Buy her a ticket and if you can give her a place to stay until she is able to cope on her own?

If I were in such a situation, i would first look to my family for help.

I do realise that not everyone is in a position to help, though.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Allie-P said:


> I beg to differ. My daughter, obviously, had the right to stay in the U.K. She is a citizen but was definitely NOT allowed to apply for benefits for 3 months - or receive any form of help with housing.
> 
> We took it to MP level and he agreed with the ruling. A Mr Hillary Benn of Leeds !!
> 
> Unfortunate or not, it DID happen- which is why I wrote the post to ensure that the family of this poor lady could thoroughly investigate her entitlements, prior to her returning to the U.K.



Yes this is the case

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/benefits/coming-from-abroad-and-claiming-benefits-the-habitual-residence-test/the-habitual-residence-test-an-introduction/what-is-the-habitual-residence-test-EWSNI/

Yes UK nationals have the right to reside, so don't have to prove that they have the right to, but those returning from residing abroad will often have to prove that they DO reside in the UK - by being there for 3 months - before being entitled to any benefits.

I also know people this has happened to.




Love Karma said:


> Your daughter was most unfortunate and an extremely rare case. In the overwhelming majority of cases this is simply not the case.
> 
> 
> "*What is the habitual residence test*
> ...


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## Isobella (Oct 16, 2014)

I don't think a lot of this would apply to a 69 yr old as she will already be receiving pension. If applicable once she has a UK address she could apply for pension credit and attendance allowance.


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## ccm47 (Oct 15, 2013)

As with all things to do with Benefits and Housing "Check with the Professional Organisations" First.

Offering to accommodate your mother may seem the right thing to do but way back in the 80s I was warned NOT to do so by Council staff. My 70 year-old mother lost her job as a live-in housekeeper after 25 years or so. She wished to stay in the area where she then knew many people. A council worker warned me that if I put her up then they would regard her needs as met and would NEVER offer her accommodation, so I didn't make the offer. Instead they gave her emergency shelter, then sheltered accommodation which let her enjoy her final years. Modern Housing Associations may not be so draconian, but DO check first.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

This factsheet from Age UK makes it clear that an HRT is discretionary.

https://www.ageuk.org.uk/globalassets/age-uk/documents/factsheets/fs25_returning_from_abroad_fcs.pdf



> The Habitual Residence Test (HRT) is used to decide if you normally live in the United Kingdom (UK), the Channel Islands, the Republic of Ireland or the Isle of Man (known as the ‘Common Travel Area’ (CTA)).
> 
> You can be subject to the HRT if arrive in the UK having been outside of the CTA for any length of time and you apply for housing assistance or benefits such as Pension Credit, Housing Benefit, or Council Tax Support (Council Tax Reduction Scheme in Wales). Separate HRT decisions are made for each benefit claim or application for housing assistance.
> 
> ...


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Alcalaina said:


> This factsheet from Age UK makes it clear that an HRT is discretionary.
> 
> https://www.ageuk.org.uk/globalassets/age-uk/documents/factsheets/fs25_returning_from_abroad_fcs.pdf


Yes, which why in my post I said 'will often have to... 

So the OP's mum might have to wait three months in order to prove that she has returned to live there- but might not.

There's no way of knowing.


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## Isobella (Oct 16, 2014)

Alcalaina said:


> This factsheet from Age UK makes it clear that an HRT is discretionary.
> 
> https://www.ageuk.org.uk/globalassets/age-uk/documents/factsheets/fs25_returning_from_abroad_fcs.pdf


Yes, suppose there has to be some rules or all those expats entitled to pension credit could just use a relatives address

I would think registering with a GP, bank statements showing UK use etc. wold be useful. In the meantime she would still get basic pension though. Owning a house in Spain could be a complication.


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

Isobella said:


> Yes, suppose there has to be some rules or all those expats entitled to pension credit could just use a relatives address
> 
> I would think registering with a GP, bank statements showing UK use etc. wold be useful. In the meantime she would still get basic pension though. Owning a house in Spain could be a complication.


Someone I knew here returned to UK (marriage breakdown) needing to claim benefits, and was joint owner of their property in Spain. She had to provide evidence that the property was on the market (which it was) and that was accepted. However, that was a good few years ago now, and I know that the rules have been tightened up a lot since then, with the introduction of the HRT etc.

If the OP's mother were returning to an area where Universal Credit has already been introduced, I think that could complicate matters too. It does include Housing Benefit, not just JSA and disability benefits. New claimants were initially waiting six weeks to receive their first payments, now reportedly reduced to five weeks. Wow, how generous. So claimants have to survive five weeks without any money or help with their rent.


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

Isobella said:


> I don't think a lot of this would apply to a 69 yr old as she will already be receiving pension. If applicable once she has a UK address she could apply for pension credit and attendance allowance.


You mentioned attendance allowance - apparently you can't claim that unless you have been resident in the UK for two out of the last three years.

https://www.gov.uk/attendance-allowance/eligibility


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## Isobella (Oct 16, 2014)

Lynn R said:


> You mentioned attendance allowance - apparently you can't claim that unless you have been resident in the UK for two out of the last three years.
> 
> https://www.gov.uk/attendance-allowance/eligibility


Thanks, interesting. It does say you can claim some benefits if living in the EU area. Perhaps she could look into that.


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## Allie-P (Feb 11, 2013)

Isobella said:


> I don't think a lot of this would apply to a 69 yr old as she will already be receiving pension. If applicable once she has a UK address she could apply for pension credit and attendance allowance.



No, if in receipt of a state pension, it is contributory and can be received legally, wherever she resides in the EU.

Pension credit is not...it is means tested.

I did not post to alarm the OP- but rather to advise her to make her own enquiries regarding her mother’s personal situation, based on what happened to my daughter. 

She now has a teaching post in Thailand and I never see my granddaughter. 

As said, this ‘law’ only came in from 2014. The U.K. no longer puts their own citizens first. They had no interest in helping my daughter who was in a real short-term emergency situation and who, whilst there, immediately secured a UK teaching post for the following September, 2 months ahead.


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