# Another broken heart.....



## Charlie's Angel

Hi everyone, 

I've been reading the posts on this site for so long I feel I already know everybody!! From the title I guess you already know what's coming, and you're thinking another "stupid girl" yep and you'd be right!!!

I came to Egypt for the first time earlier this year, I was travelling alone for the first time ever in my life as my marriage had recently fallen apart, so sun and sightseeing was all I was looking for. I'm 36 and he was 33 (divorced) and a guide on my cruise. The first time he made it known he was interested in me (2nd day) my instinct was to refuse, which I did, I even told him "I bet you say this kind of thing every week to each new set of tourists"!!! HA!!!! so what happened??? yep I got sucked right in, not so much while I was on holiday, but it was after, we had exchanged numbers and were texting and calling regulary. So eventually I started to let my guard down and believe he must be genuine to say the things he was saying, and I fell completely head over heels for him. 

He had been begging me to go back out and visit him, so I did, I returned this time to Cairo, he told me I would be staying in his apartment, I had no idea this wouldn't be acceptable, due to my lack of understanding of how things are out there, I only found out after I arrived I was not staying with him. We moved around to three different places while I was there, he would disappear for a few hours every day, just saying "I have things to do", although when I asked where he had been he just got irritated, so I eventually stopped asking to avoid any arguments. We did visit a few places but I always felt like I was forcing him, he was happier when we were indoors. He stormed off one day and sent me a text saying I was selfish and only thinking of how to enjoy my day!!!! Wasn't that the point of my visit????? I have read lots about men using you for money, he never asked me for money, but he told me his ex wife was after money from him, and so were his ex employers, oh....... and also how expensive his father's hopsital bill's were..?? But he never actually asked me, maybe he was waiting for the offer??

I maybe too trusting and give my heart away easily, but when it comes to money, I have my head well and truly screwed on!!! No way under any circumstances would I part with any cash. My visit wasn't all bad so I came home only remembering the good bits, like you do, and putting the bad stuff out of my mind, over the next few months he just completely played with my emotions, I would text him and he would go missing for a week, then text me as if everything was normal, ignoring all my messages, his favourite way out was "I love you, I need you" etc etc and all that C**P!!! All this hot and cold stuff was driving me insane, I very nearly had a nervous breakdown, I started to blame myself and he made me feel pretty useless, I was breaking into tears at any given moment, basically he had turned me into a wreck, I lost all confidence in myself and thought I was a terrible person. We no longer have any contact, and now I can finally see him for what he was, I won't swear but there's a few 'F' and 'B' words in there...

I'm starting to put myself back together and be more like the old me, I swear if I ever saw him again there's only one thing I'm gonna do, chuck him in the Nile, while I'm shouting "But, Darling I do love you"!!! honest!! This forum has been a great help in getting me back together I've really enjoyed reading all the posts, about all subjects, Horus you are crazy (in a good way) Deadguy, I like reading your posts the most "I love you" ha ha, no I'm not offering marriage, and I ain't gonna send any money!!! (only joking, I'm trying to get my sense of humour back - pls forgive me!) Thanks for reading this, I hope to return to Egypt many more times, to make new memories with new friends, hopefully!! x


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## mamasue

Charlie's Angel....So sorry to hear about your experience... but happy for you that it's all over and you lost no money in the process.
I lived in Egypt for many years, working and living at a tourist resort.
I saw your story played out over and over again....broken hearts, lost money, abusive men.
Egyptian men in tourism are definitely the worst players. they've usually got a wife at home (NOT ex-wife!!)
You already had the stories about the sick family needing money, etc. Egyptians are great scammers..... guys have it down to a fine art... they won't ever ask for money..... but they'll "reluctantly" accept if if it's offered!!
The guys I worked with often had 4 women on the go..... dropping one at the airport and getting the next.... swearing undying love to each one! ..... I knew of many women who sold everything to be with their habibi...... and couldn't even afford to eat a year later!!
You had a lucky escape!!


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## MaidenScotland

I am so sorry that you had to go through this but you got off lightly as you only really had your heart broken and we have all had that with men/women from all over the world.
Egyptian men don't come right out with it and ask for money they hint and hint ... they all have a father/mother/uncle/cat that need help medically.

Egyptian men should come with a bank warning Warning.. this man may cause you bank account to go into melt down.

Maiden


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## jojo

I guess its the differences in upbringing and culture. Egyptian men dont, in the main, seem to share our values, morals or the same sense of pride. Looks and words in a short space of time are not love. 

Jo xxx


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## SHendra

Hey Charlie,

I think you should feel good about yourself that you found out sooner rather than later with a divorce to sort out. Just put it down to experience and pat yourself on the back for keeping your head! 

Keep smiling!

@jojo yes it is' in the upbringing/culture their raised to believe they will just love whichever girl they choose there's no fall in bit/stage. They tend to believe the real fall in love bit happens after marriage.


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## seawind77

At least you were saved. Next time I will write my story about egyptian girls and how I ended with marriage with a child. 

But I should to say also male expats must be carefull. Mainly girls here want to marry as soon as possible to save from their home. Marrying is with egyptian is not easy due to heavy traditions which costs a lot by financial reasons. So while they are in difficulty to find a reasonable candidate (which they can love and has money to afford the marriage) sometimes they are considering foreigner guys.

All foreigners here potential rich or at least good condition. Only luck with many expats in these forum they are christians and this is eliminating them from most of the husband hunters list. But some of them will continue and even ask for you to convert your religion. 

These girls are desperate egyptian virgins. Sometime for reaching their target they can do many tricks and dirty games. (Losing virginity trick, threating etc.. etc..). Therefore never go in intercourse with a egyptian lady if she is saying that she is virgin even she said that she has full will. (this mean you should to pay this with your life or unplanned marriage.)

Also another type of girls you can not notice them that they dont look like desperate house girls or want marry with you but just to screw your pocket. I saw girls lying to guys that they have illness or even cancer to get their pity with money. It happens to me once.

A girl who I refused previously because of not thinking any relation she said me that she had a cancer. I can not forget that days. I feel terrible and disgust from myself because of refusing a cancer girl which may be her last wish. Just try to spend time with her, care and my motivation at least make her happy in her last days. It is not the important the rest of the story, I hope people get my feelings. I was emotionality raped by that girl. Thanks god I saved myself.

Anyway as I said above also male friends should to be carefull. Mainly the girls objects are different than the egyptian guys but should to be carefull unless you are looking for a marriage or settlement.


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## Horus

Hi

I don't know you but I am sorry to hear it did not work out for you but at least you managed to escape.

Behind these stories are real people and you have my sympathy 

I would like to hear a happy story, sorry if I am cynical these guys mainly all seem manipulative controlling slime balls who can charm the birds out the trees.

They all talk the talk but don't walk the walk


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## Charlie's Angel

Thanks.... I never thought I would hear myself say I was lucky JUST to have a broken heart!! It's really not easy, but for me it was more the mental torture that broke me in the end, this really goes beyond my comprehension that people can do this to eachother, nothing surprises me these days, would just like nice ones from now on though!!!


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## Horus

Charlie's Angel said:


> Thanks.... I never thought I would hear myself say I was lucky JUST to have a broken heart!! It's really not easy, but for me it was more the mental torture that broke me in the end, this really goes beyond my comprehension that people can do this to eachother, nothing surprises me these days, would just like nice ones from now on though!!!


My dear every day is a learning day, hopefully once bitten twice shy - but it does not always happen that way and your story could have ended far worse. You would be suprised what sick games people play..and they even seem to enjoy it.

The frustrating thing about it is that many of these ladies don't want help, they are hurting however they are besotted with the boyfriend and everyone will say "just leave" but all takes is one text and the smile and it's back to square one running around in circles. 

I would never be able to get away with 1/10th of what these guys do and it seems that nice guys finish last in this world.

I can't even call them men - they are predators and bullies and probably don't even realise it

If anyone can explain why - I would love to know because I have so much to offer and I feel I am going to have a hard time finding a woman out there who I can love and care for and that these snakes will do anything to maybe even interfere in any relationship I might be able to establish


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## Horus

seawind77 said:


> At least you were saved. Next time I will write my story about egyptian girls and how I ended with marriage with a child.
> 
> But I should to say also male expats must be carefull. Mainly girls here want to marry as soon as possible to save from their home. Marrying is with egyptian is not easy due to heavy traditions which costs a lot by financial reasons. So while they are in difficulty to find a reasonable candidate (which they can love and has money to afford the marriage) sometimes they are considering foreigner guys.
> 
> All foreigners here potential rich or at least good condition. Only luck with many expats in these forum they are christians and this is eliminating them from most of the husband hunters list. But some of them will continue and even ask for you to convert your religion.
> 
> These girls are desperate egyptian virgins. Sometime for reaching their target they can do many tricks and dirty games. (Losing virginity trick, threating etc.. etc..). Therefore never go in intercourse with a egyptian lady if she is saying that she is virgin even she said that she has full will. (this mean you should to pay this with your life or unplanned marriage.)
> 
> Also another type of girls you can not notice them that they dont look like desperate house girls or want marry with you but just to screw your pocket. I saw girls lying to guys that they have illness or even cancer to get their pity with money. It happens to me once.
> 
> A girl who I refused previously because of not thinking any relation she said me that she had a cancer. I can not forget that days. I feel terrible and disgust from myself because of refusing a cancer girl which may be her last wish. Just try to spend time with her, care and my motivation at least make her happy in her last days. It is not the important the rest of the story, I hope people get my feelings. I was emotionality raped by that girl. Thanks god I saved myself.
> 
> Anyway as I said above also male friends should to be carefull. Mainly the girls objects are different than the egyptian guys but should to be carefull unless you are looking for a marriage or settlement.


Suits me fine 100% I don't mind getting married to an Egyptian lady - as long as she is westernised, kind and caring and does not look like a beast. It's human nature when you go shopping just because a pear or peach tastes sweet you don't choose the rotten looking one do you?

I am not exactly poor and have a steady income however I won't be fleeced or scammed.

Conversion is fine, I can eat bacon in secret. Depends how hot she is really.


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## DeadGuy

*@ Charlie's Angel:*

The Nile scene you've mentioned is a part of an Egyptian movie as far as I remember 

Oh and "I love you too" LOL! None taken  And do your best to get your British sense of humor back 

Anyway, glad you're doing better now, and you better be totally fine by Christmas! You sure deserve to have a Merry Christmas after what you been through!! So work on that for now!

*@ jojo:*

Morals, values, pride, you name it, every Egyptian got that, but only when it's a "public" situation, when it comes to private situations/issues, the ones who would stick to their values are VERY few! *HYPOCRISY* rules in here! Side by side with stupidity!

*@ seawind77:*

I'm not sure if you mean that this is the way you ended up married, by a scam, but if that was the case then I got only ONE word for you: DIVORCE! Cause obviously the kinda Egyptian "girls" that would scam others into marriages are just as abusive/stupid as the male version of them!


Good luck folks!


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## Charlie's Angel

I always wanted to be a leading lady!! As as your already a 'DeadGuy' you won't mind being leading man, you won't even feel it when you're going head first in the Nile!! LOL Remember I treat you so bad for your own good, ha ha, oh and yes of course I love u. (why can't I get my smilies to come on??)


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## DeadGuy

Charlie's Angel said:


> I always wanted to be a leading lady!! As as your already a 'DeadGuy' you won't mind being leading man, you won't even feel it when you're going head first in the Nile!! LOL Remember I treat you so bad for your own good, ha ha, oh and yes of course I love u. (why can't I get my smilies to come on??)


Ha ha bloody ha! My first leading role and I'd be drowning in the bloody smelly dirty Nile, NO THANKS? 

The smileys's thing.......Try the "REPLY" button or the "Go Advanced" one?! Women and technology..........


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## Charlie's Angel

:clap2::clap2::clap2: But you're already Dead, so you can't drown or smell anything, so you see treating you bad is good


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## Horus

Charlie's Angel said:


> :clap2::clap2::clap2: But you're already Dead, so you can't drown or smell anything, so you see treating you bad is good


Why do I have these visions that your ex has been chopped up and fed to the camels


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## DeadGuy

Charlie's Angel said:


> :clap2::clap2::clap2: But you're already Dead, so you can't drown or smell anything, so you see treating you bad is good


:rofl:

Ok, gotta tell you the sad fact that in the mentioned movie, the guy kept holding the girl's hand when she was chucking him in the Nile......So they both got the stinky smell on them............Still wanna be a leading lady now? 

And congrats for having your smileys back! :clap2:


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## DeadGuy

Horus said:


> Why do I have these visions that your ex has been chopped up and fed to the camels


Dude.....!! NEVER underestimate an angry girl (Specially the Egyptian ones!) 

Well, not just the angry ones, you never know when a girl will get angry anyway


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## Charlie's Angel

Horus said:


> Why do I have these visions that your ex has been chopped up and fed to the camels


Fed to the Croc's actually :lol: At least the tourists don't have to ride them


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## Charlie's Angel

DeadGuy said:


> :rofl:
> 
> Ok, gotta tell you the sad fact that in the mentioned movie, the guy kept holding the girl's hand when she was chucking him in the Nile......So they both got the stinky smell on them............Still wanna be a leading lady now?
> 
> And congrats for having your smileys back! :clap2:


You bet (I'm a good swimmer) and no matter how bad it gets, women still dream of the happy ending  Even the exorcist was happy in the end


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## Horus

DeadGuy said:


> Dude.....!! NEVER underestimate an angry girl (Specially the Egyptian ones!)
> 
> Well, not just the angry ones, you never know when a girl will get angry anyway


I have learned as long as you:

1. Don't answer back
2. Give them what they want, when they want it, even remote controls
3. Agree with everything even if they are wrong
4. Never mention anything weight or diet related - those subjects are taboo

You will have many happy years as I have done..but that's coming to an end soon

Oh..

Denial is a very strong tool as well


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## DeadGuy

Charlie's Angel said:


> You bet (I'm a good swimmer) and no matter how bad it gets, women still dream of the happy ending  Even the exorcist was happy in the end


Ok, I give up LOL! I'm dead and a bad swimmer! LOL!

Women........


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## Charlie's Angel

DeadGuy said:


> Ok, I give up LOL! I'm dead and a bad swimmer! LOL!
> 
> Women........



That's right you can't win  We should make a new film, instead of "Charlie and the Chocolate Factory", we could call it "Charlie and the Deadguy" it will be a box office hit in Egypt :cheer2:


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## DeadGuy

Horus said:


> I have learned as long as you:
> 
> 1. Don't answer back
> 2. Give them what they want, when they want it, even remote controls
> 3. Agree with everything even if they are wrong
> 4. Never mention anything weight or diet related - those subjects are taboo
> 
> You will have many happy years as I have done..but that's coming to an end soon
> 
> Oh..
> 
> Denial is a very strong tool as well


Well, at least you've learned something, but just add "age" to #4  

I'm sure we all got a lot more to learn though :confused2:


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## Horus

Charlie's Angel said:


> That's right you can't win  We should make a new film, instead of "Charlie and the Chocolate Factory", we could call it "Charlie and the Deadguy" it will be a box office hit in Egypt :cheer2:


You need to be given a golden ticket though if you want to enter the chocolate factory :eyebrows:


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## MaidenScotland

:focus:


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## DeadGuy

Charlie's Angel said:


> That's right you can't win  We should make a new film, instead of "Charlie and the Chocolate Factory", we could call it "Charlie and the Deadguy" it will be a box office hit in Egypt :cheer2:


LOL!! That made me laugh for real!!

I'm the last person on Earth that would just "volunteer" and stand in front of any kind of camera, specially if I'd be repeating something like an idiot, not even for all the money in the world!!! You're gonna have to shoot me first! :lol:


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## Charlie's Angel

MaidenScotland said:


> :focus:



Sorry Maideneep: You are quite right, just nice to laugh again after months of feeling dreadful


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## SalmaHAH

Having lost my heart, my bank account, temporarily my sanity, I consider you very brave and fortunate Charlie...I am now stuck with having to divorce the predator I married. He cost me alot of money and is still costing me money (divorces aren't cheap)...The predator I married even got to the US, but being the idiot he was, he didn't stay very long, and left to return to his "sick" father Sept. 6, 2009. Haven't seen him since...Talked (or should I say texted) him off an on for almost a year; but when he started asking for money again, I stopped responding to him. It took me almost a year to get over him and not tear up when I thought of him...Thank you God, my sanity is now restored and I can move on with my life shortly...

Glad you were so much smarter than I was. I too love Egypt and would love to go back there, but probably won't. Take care.


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## Charlie's Angel

SalmaHAH said:


> Having lost my heart, my bank account, temporarily my sanity, I consider you very brave and fortunate Charlie...I am now stuck with having to divorce the predator I married. He cost me alot of money and is still costing me money (divorces aren't cheap)...The predator I married even got to the US, but being the idiot he was, he didn't stay very long, and left to return to his "sick" father Sept. 6, 2009. Haven't seen him since...Talked (or should I say texted) him off an on for almost a year; but when he started asking for money again, I stopped responding to him. It took me almost a year to get over him and not tear up when I thought of him...Thank you God, my sanity is now restored and I can move on with my life shortly...
> 
> Glad you were so much smarter than I was. I too love Egypt and would love to go back there, but probably won't. Take care.



I'm so sorry for you, you must have been through hell, I feel bad enough but if I had been facing the same thing I really don't know what state I'd be in now. Everytime I start feeling weak and like I'm gonna cry I just keep repeating that I'm better than him and he's not gonna bring me down, he ain't worth any more tears. It's really hard to accept that while you're giving you're heart and soul to someone, they're just plotting how to scam you out of everything  it really hurts, replacing lost money is one thing, but fixing your heart and soul is quite something else :tape: I remember a line from a song I like 'For every sting part of you dies' you never quite get over it.

I didn't think I could ever return to Egypt, but part of my healing is to go back, I need to prove something to myself, I'm gonna go back with big smile on my face  caus he's not gonna beat me and stop me from returning to a country I like and want to see more of. I'm glad you're recovering, good luck, stay strong and keep smiling even through the times you want to cry xx


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## SalmaHAH

Charlie's Angel said:


> I'm so sorry for you, you must have been through hell, I feel bad enough but if I had been facing the same thing I really don't know what state I'd be in now. Everytime I start feeling weak and like I'm gonna cry I just keep repeating that I'm better than him and he's not gonna bring me down, he ain't worth any more tears. It's really hard to accept that while you're giving you're heart and soul to someone, they're just plotting how to scam you out of everything  it really hurts, replacing lost money is one thing, but fixing your heart and soul is quite something else :tape: I remember a line from a song I like 'For every sting part of you dies' you never quite get over it.
> 
> I didn't think I could ever return to Egypt, but part of my healing is to go back, I need to prove something to myself, I'm gonna go back with big smile on my face  caus he's not gonna beat me and stop me from returning to a country I like and want to see more of. I'm glad you're recovering, good luck, stay strong and keep smiling even through the times you want to cry xx


Thank you! I too will return to Egypt because I do love the country. My tears stopped a few months ago and now I am just working at divorcing the bum. He definitely did not deserve me! He lost out on living in the US making a good living and providing his family with a better life than he could staying there. He is very stupid...


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## Charlie's Angel

SalmaHAH said:


> Thank you! I too will return to Egypt because I do love the country. My tears stopped a few months ago and now I am just working at divorcing the bum. He definitely did not deserve me! He lost out on living in the US making a good living and providing his family with a better life than he could staying there. He is very stupid...


You're right he sounds like a complete jerk, he was very lucky to get into the US, he was really dumb. Can I ask how you met him, were you on holiday?


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## SalmaHAH

Charlie's Angel said:


> You're right he sounds like a complete jerk, he was very lucky to get into the US, he was really dumb. Can I ask how you met him, were you on holiday?


 Of course! Never expected in a million years that this would happen to me. Went to Hurghuda with 4 other friends. Had a marvelous 20 days, he had tried to talk to me for most of that time but I didn't pay attention to him until about 7 days before we left... Thought I was more sauvy than that. Guess not. Having been alone for over 18 years I was blindsided by someone who actually seemed to want me. Should have known better. He was not too smart to give up being in the US! But he sure knew how to play me. Oh well, it is what it is. I thank God that I was given a bit of happiness for a brief period of time; if nothing else he was attentive, loving and very kind and sweet...that changed after I ran out of money  Typical I guess. Time to live on. InshaAllah life will be good.


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## Horus

Gosh 18 years without a partner is a long time 

The thought of me going to Sharm on my own and lacking female company is daunting enough - until I meet someone (hopefully within a week)


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## Charlie's Angel

Horus said:


> Gosh 18 years without a partner is a long time
> 
> The thought of me going to Sharm on my own and lacking female company is daunting enough - until I meet someone (hopefully within a week)  plenty of cold showers will be on order, that's all I am saying...



 Horus, you have as much sensitivity as a dead fish in the Nile


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## Charlie's Angel

SalmaHAH said:


> Of course! Never expected in a million years that this would happen to me. Went to Hurghuda with 4 other friends. Had a marvelous 20 days, he had tried to talk to me for most of that time but I didn't pay attention to him until about 7 days before we left... Thought I was more sauvy than that. Guess not. Having been alone for over 18 years I was blindsided by someone who actually seemed to want me. Should have known better. He was not too smart to give up being in the US! But he sure knew how to play me. Oh well, it is what it is. I thank God that I was given a bit of happiness for a brief period of time; if nothing else he was attentive, loving and very kind and sweet...that changed after I ran out of money  Typical I guess. Time to live on. InshaAllah life will be good.



Even when you're in a relationship or married you can still feel alone, and one thing's for certain they sure know how to make you feel wanted, as long as they're wanting something from you  Take care


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## SalmaHAH

Horus said:


> Gosh 18 years without a partner is a long time
> 
> The thought of me going to Sharm on my own and lacking female company is daunting enough - until I meet someone (hopefully within a week)
> You are funny! I thought it was a long time too...if nothing else I got my groove back for awhile. :clap2:


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## Maggot

Hello Charlie's Angel,

I'm sorry to hear what happened to you it's really awful but it's a common thing these days.
What i want to say is never trust anyone (especially Egyptians) fully unless you really really know them and since a long time, as for me i don't trust ANY Egyptian or anyone except my girlfriend (She's from Finland) and my best friend (my only friend here in Egypt, all my other friends are online friends and they're not Egyptians). I'm an Egyptian guy (20 years old) and i can tell you that what most of the guys here in Egypt think about is how to scam people (Not only foreigners but yea mostly foreigners in Egypt) and it's so obvious that they aim for quite old women, they're always after your money and they want to get EVERYTHING they could get from you and then when you have nothing else they want they'll leave you and ignore you. I've been all my life a loner and thank god for that or else i probably would've been like them now but anyway since I'm against everything they do and always telling people i know (like relatives or colleagues) that are doing these things not to do it they all call me "crazy" and noone really wants to talk to me anymore.
I'll tell you one thing happened to me personally, one of my colleagues offered me a job in Hurghada since my English is quite good and I'm quite cute, he said I'll be mainly dealing with tourists and do my job but the other job he wants me to do is to try to start friendships with tourists and get them to go shopping at some particular stores (He'll tell me about them and get me to know the owners and make a deal with them) and buy their stuff from these stores for a higher price than they're originally sold for and then later i go to the owner and get 50% of the extra money the tourists paid for the things they bought AND he said that i gotta try to get in a relationship with any of the tourists and abuse her and get her to pay for my stuff and give me money... I rejected his offer (even I'm in a bad need for a job and money so I can move to Finland and marry my girl) and told him "who could actually f**kin' do such thing, damn ba**ards..." He said everyone does and they get lots of money and fun then he called me crazy and he asked me to call him if i ever change my mind. We haven't talked since then.
On the other hand I'm in a relationship with a Finnish girl (She's my first), we're together for over a year now and we knew each other for over 2 years before we got with each other, we trust each other fully, we're holding on to each other and we can't wait to meet and live together so yea we know each other well now, i never asked her for anything and I'm currently studying in the faculty of Arts and looking for a job to get all the money i need to move to Finland. I went through a hard time for being with her since it's not acceptable by my family and it got worse when i discarded my religion to be with her (she's christian) so my family disowned me and kicked me out for a few months, i really needed ANY money these few months since sometimes i didn't even have money to eat, my girlfriend knew what i was going through and she offered me money SEVERAL times (I'm so thankful to her for that) but i always rejected her offer and i told her that I'll never take any money from her, i even refused that she gives me presents and she refused i give her anything as well ^^
I'm sorry if i went abit off-topic and didn't make sense of what i said but i guess you get the point after all.
I'm sorry again to hear what happened to you but honestly that prick isn't worth a single tear of yours and I'm so glad you got rid of him and that you're safe now 

P.S: I wanna slap that ba**ard who broke your heart across the face so bad, damn jerk >.>

All the best,
Mari's Maggot.

#Edit: "and you're thinking another "stupid girl" yep and you'd be right!!!" you're not stupid, how could you possibly have known that he's such a prick. People do mistakes but they learn from them so they won't do the same mistakes again!


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## Charlie's Angel

Maggot said:


> Hello Charlie's Angel,
> 
> "it's so obvious that they aim for quite old women" "I went through a hard time for being with her since it's not acceptable by my family and it got worse when i discarded my religion to be with her (she's christian) so my family disowned me and kicked me out for a few months"



Thanks for your comments Maggot, yes I know about the older women/younger guy thing, wouldn't class myself as an older women at 36  but I guess to someone who is 20 I'm a senior citizen!! He was 33..... so maybe I was the older woman!! To be honest I don't think it matters what age you are any western women seems to be a target, I'd like to know which ones if any aren't a target?? What the guys don't realize is that just caus you're on holiday doesn't make you rich, most people have saved all year for there 2 weeks of sun, and when they go home it's not to a rich lifestyle. But I'm also aware that the standard of living in the UK for example is much higher (in most cases) than the Egyptian standard, so when we say we have nothing, it probably still looks quite alot compared to when an Egyptian says they have nothing.

I take it that you are muslim and from what I believe it's acceptable for a muslim to marry a christian, so why would your family disown you? and why did you feel you had to discard your religion to be with her?? this seems like a pretty big step to take


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## SHendra

Hehe I'm 35 and consider myself still young etc.. now I feel old  Just jesting of course! 

You have a good point in what you've said also Charlie to them we look rich even if were not. Here everything costs. In UK we can be broke but still plenty too do! Or just the cost of the transportation! From country parks, beaches right through to some of the places in London (and other cities) where entrance is free to most the museums!


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## Maggot

Charlie's Angel said:


> Thanks for your comments Maggot, yes I know about the older women/younger guy thing, wouldn't class myself as an older women at 36  but I guess to someone who is 20 I'm a senior citizen!! He was 33..... so maybe I was the older woman!! To be honest I don't think it matters what age you are any western women seems to be a target, I'd like to know which ones if any aren't a target?? What the guys don't realize is that just caus you're on holiday doesn't make you rich, most people have saved all year for there 2 weeks of sun, and when they go home it's not to a rich lifestyle. But I'm also aware that the standard of living in the UK for example is much higher (in most cases) than the Egyptian standard, so when we say we have nothing, it probably still looks quite alot compared to when an Egyptian says they have nothing.
> 
> I take it that you are muslim and from what I believe it's acceptable for a muslim to marry a christian, so why would your family disown you? and why did you feel you had to discard your religion to be with her?? this seems like a pretty big step to take


Yea I understand that but i never said you're old, what i meant by quite old like 45+. And yea age doesn't matter to them but scamming old women seems quite alot more common. I also believe that age doesn't matter in a serious relationship, like I'd still be with Mari even if she's 50 because i love her more than anything or anyone in this world. "What the guys don't realize is that just caus you're on holiday doesn't make you rich," I understand that and i told everyone who think otherwise that tourists aren't rich and you shouldn't be abusing (not only scamming, you know that they raise the prices of anything to tourists) them that way like thousands of times, nobody listens... My aunt moved to and lives in England (Liverpool currently) for quite a long time now, my uncle lived in England for a while then moved to Ireland married a native Irish then he returned with her to Egypt (She converted into Muslim) and my other uncle lived in Germany a few years then came back to Egypt and yea they're not "rich".
I was a Muslim and yea it's acceptable for a Muslim to marry a christian BUT if she doesn't believe in god then it's not acceptable and Mari doesn't believe in god. Also as you know that like 95% (If not more) of Muslims are fanatics so they think that even Christians aren't so much... Christians for some reason so they don't allow it. And my family aren't okay with this because like i said she's a christian and they don't know if we ever had kids what religion would they pick (they want them to be Muslims ofcourse). "this seems like a pretty big step to take " not really, i truly love Mari and I'd do whatever it takes to be with her (as long as i wouldn't harm anyone else but myself) so yea this isn't too big, like i said earlier i love her more than anything or anyone in this world.
I know i might sound weird but yea I'm weird and i like it 

Mari's Maggot.


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## Charlie's Angel

Maggot said:


> Yea I understand that but i never said you're old, what i meant by quite old like 45+. "I also believe that age doesn't matter in a serious relationship", "I'm weird and i like it"
> 
> Mari's Maggot.


Hurray!! I got a few more years before I'm 'quite old' phew  I don't think age matters in a relationship either, as long as you're both commited to eachother and are prepared for the inevitable ups and downs that are surely gonna come.

It's funny but when I was on my cruise there was only one egyptian guy on the boat who did not make any smutty remarks or stare at me all the time, he was about 20 and the only one I had the most normal conversations with. The rest of the time I had to put up with constant remarks, I must have heard 'nice body' hundreds of times, quite funny caus I'm certainly no super model  I'm not the kind of girl who dresses half naked when I go out, I do prefer to dress modestly, but when I was sunbathing I used to have one of the waiters lurching over me the whole time, sometimes if I had my eyes shut for a while I'd open them and he'd be standing over me  it got so bad one time I had to go back to my room to escape!! I even had one of them trying to look through binoculars at me, this must have been at mega close range, hopefully I just came through fuzzy and out of focus  Nothing wrong with been a bit weird  as long as it's the good kind of weird


----------



## Maggot

Charlie's Angel said:


> Hurray!! I got a few more years before I'm 'quite old' phew  I don't think age matters in a relationship either, as long as you're both commited to eachother and are prepared for the inevitable ups and downs that are surely gonna come.
> 
> It's funny but when I was on my cruise there was only one egyptian guy on the boat who did not make any smutty remarks or stare at me all the time, he was about 20 and the only one I had the most normal conversations with. The rest of the time I had to put up with constant remarks, I must have heard 'nice body' hundreds of times, quite funny caus I'm certainly no super model  I'm not the kind of girl who dresses half naked when I go out, I do prefer to dress modestly, but when I was sunbathing I used to have one of the waiters lurching over me the whole time, sometimes if I had my eyes shut for a while I'd open them and he'd be standing over me  it got so bad one time I had to go back to my room to escape!! I even had one of them trying to look through binoculars at me, this must have been at mega close range, hopefully I just came through fuzzy and out of focus  Nothing wrong with been a bit weird  as long as it's the good kind of weird


Haha aww yea that happens ALOT and I've seen it when i went to the Cairo Museum, Egyptian guys keep staring at the foreigner women xD I was like "wth... people go to the museum to take a look at the statues, artifacts, mummies ...etc and enjoy the sight of them and know more about them and those guys are here to only STARE at some chicks :O" besides I'm sure it's so annoying to have someone staring at you and stalking you all the bloody time. It happens in university too, my colleagues go staring at almost ANY girl (native Egyptian students) walking by and they're all like "Ouu! Great body" and I'm like "guys... grow up...". I don't stare at girls and i don't even talk to them irl (unless one of the girls at the same course with me ask me about something which rarely happens), i tend to avoid girls (sometimes i think they're scary too and don't ask why xD I already said I'm weird). I find looking/staring at girls that way is so pointless anyway... And yea because of that my colleagues called me "gay" several times, they assumed that I'm interested in guys since i don't do what they do (stare at/harass/flirt with girls) and if that proves anything it proves they're stupid since I'm already in a relationship with a girl xD I'm not saying I'm an angel, i have downfalls, everyone does but mine aren't related to any of these things (I guess first relationship at the age of 19 and it's a ldr explains alot).
I'm not abit weird but yea I'm weird in a good way, Mari said that one of the things she likes the most in me is that I'm weird in a good way xD

P.S: You should've slapped that waiter across the face and kicked his bu*t lol
#sorry for my bad English ^^

Mari's Maggot.


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## layla13

Charlie's Angel said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> I've been reading the posts on this site for so long I feel I already know everybody!! From the title I guess you already know what's coming, and you're thinking another "stupid girl" yep and you'd be right!!!
> 
> I came to Egypt for the first time earlier this year, I was travelling alone for the first time ever in my life as my marriage had recently fallen apart, so sun and sightseeing was all I was looking for. I'm 36 and he was 33 (divorced) and a guide on my cruise. The first time he made it known he was interested in me (2nd day) my instinct was to refuse, which I did, I even told him "I bet you say this kind of thing every week to each new set of tourists"!!! HA!!!! so what happened??? yep I got sucked right in, not so much while I was on holiday, but it was after, we had exchanged numbers and were texting and calling regulary. So eventually I started to let my guard down and believe he must be genuine to say the things he was saying, and I fell completely head over heels for him.
> 
> He had been begging me to go back out and visit him, so I did, I returned this time to Cairo, he told me I would be staying in his apartment, I had no idea this wouldn't be acceptable, due to my lack of understanding of how things are out there, I only found out after I arrived I was not staying with him. We moved around to three different places while I was there, he would disappear for a few hours every day, just saying "I have things to do", although when I asked where he had been he just got irritated, so I eventually stopped asking to avoid any arguments. We did visit a few places but I always felt like I was forcing him, he was happier when we were indoors. He stormed off one day and sent me a text saying I was selfish and only thinking of how to enjoy my day!!!! Wasn't that the point of my visit????? I have read lots about men using you for money, he never asked me for money, but he told me his ex wife was after money from him, and so were his ex employers, oh....... and also how expensive his father's hopsital bill's were..?? But he never actually asked me, maybe he was waiting for the offer??
> 
> I maybe too trusting and give my heart away easily, but when it comes to money, I have my head well and truly screwed on!!! No way under any circumstances would I part with any cash. My visit wasn't all bad so I came home only remembering the good bits, like you do, and putting the bad stuff out of my mind, over the next few months he just completely played with my emotions, I would text him and he would go missing for a week, then text me as if everything was normal, ignoring all my messages, his favourite way out was "I love you, I need you" etc etc and all that C**P!!! All this hot and cold stuff was driving me insane, I very nearly had a nervous breakdown, I started to blame myself and he made me feel pretty useless, I was breaking into tears at any given moment, basically he had turned me into a wreck, I lost all confidence in myself and thought I was a terrible person. We no longer have any contact, and now I can finally see him for what he was, I won't swear but there's a few 'F' and 'B' words in there...
> 
> I'm starting to put myself back together and be more like the old me, I swear if I ever saw him again there's only one thing I'm gonna do, chuck him in the Nile, while I'm shouting "But, Darling I do love you"!!! honest!! This forum has been a great help in getting me back together I've really enjoyed reading all the posts, about all subjects, Horus you are crazy (in a good way) Deadguy, I like reading your posts the most "I love you" ha ha, no I'm not offering marriage, and I ain't gonna send any money!!! (only joking, I'm trying to get my sense of humour back - pls forgive me!) Thanks for reading this, I hope to return to Egypt many more times, to make new memories with new friends, hopefully!! x




the men here are like what women have been doing forever.. using men to get money by acting all sweet but down and out... the guys see foreigners as an easy target because many of the ppl that visit here are half naked and come here to show off and act "loose"and party. im american and we wear what we like but some of the women in hurghada omg.. they look like prostitutes..(hate to say it but mostly russians) and they walk around the city with their asses in thongs showing. (ive seen women almost topless outside the resorts and they didnt look good.lol
the ppl here do not find it acceptable its shameful behavior. so many of the guys think its ok to USE these women in any way they can for money,visa and or sex. thats the bottom line..they dont respect them.

in my apt building ive seen women come here and stay and hit on all the egyptian guys... the doormen.. the owner.. any guy... it doesnt make women look nice at all its rude and nasty. so i dont fully blame the men.. any time a woman acts badly.. there will be men around to take advantage of it. 

i cover up even on the beach..for sun protection and because i dont like the looks of the guys but either way i get looks kuz then the foriegners stare! lol cant win.


----------



## Charlie's Angel

layla13 said:


> the men here are like what women have been doing forever.. using men to get money by acting all sweet but down and out... the guys see foreigners as an easy target because many of the ppl that visit here are half naked and come here to show off and act "loose"and party. im american and we wear what we like but some of the women in hurghada omg.. they look like prostitutes..(hate to say it but mostly russians) and they walk around the city with their asses in thongs showing. (ive seen women almost topless outside the resorts and they didnt look good.lol
> the ppl here do not find it acceptable its shameful behavior. so many of the guys think its ok to USE these women in any way they can for money,visa and or sex. thats the bottom line..they dont respect them.
> 
> in my apt building ive seen women come here and stay and hit on all the egyptian guys... the doormen.. the owner.. any guy... it doesnt make women look nice at all its rude and nasty. so i dont fully blame the men.. any time a woman acts badly.. there will be men around to take advantage of it.
> 
> i cover up even on the beach..for sun protection and because i dont like the looks of the guys but either way i get looks kuz then the foriegners stare! lol cant win.


There is a massive difference in culture between what is acceptable in the western world and whats acceptable in Eygpt, where as I agree that there are many women who also go there just to use men the overwhelming majority are men using women, if a woman decides to hit on a man, does this give him the right to accept??? NO if he is a decent man, like any decent woman you would walk away.

The women you described that walk around with their ass hanging out of their thong and nearly topless most likely are prostitutes, it seems to me like you are viewing all the women on holiday with the same view - like an egyptian man would 

I certainly did not go on holiday to show off, act loose, get my bits out or hit on any men!!!! I always dressed modestly caus that's just the way I am. Most people will not be aware of the culture all they know is they're going on holiday to a hot country and they pack accordingly (blame the fashion industry they sell the b***dy clothes!) and when this maybe the only two week holiday they get a year, well yes I'm sorry they might get drunk and they might have a good time, this does not give anyone the right to rip anybody off, lie and manipulate there way into peoples lives, and in some cases ruin them. 

Maybe you should try and talk to some of these women on holiday instead of judging them, then you might realize they are nice people just letting of steam, not there to hurt anybody.


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## Maggot

layla13 said:


> the men here are like what women have been doing forever.. using men to get money by acting all sweet but down and out... the guys see foreigners as an easy target because many of the ppl that visit here are half naked and come here to show off and act "loose"and party. im american and we wear what we like but some of the women in hurghada omg.. they look like prostitutes..(hate to say it but mostly russians) and they walk around the city with their asses in thongs showing. (ive seen women almost topless outside the resorts and they didnt look good.lol
> the ppl here do not find it acceptable its shameful behavior. so many of the guys think its ok to USE these women in any way they can for money,visa and or sex. thats the bottom line..they dont respect them.
> 
> in my apt building ive seen women come here and stay and hit on all the egyptian guys... the doormen.. the owner.. any guy... it doesnt make women look nice at all its rude and nasty. so i dont fully blame the men.. any time a woman acts badly.. there will be men around to take advantage of it.
> 
> i cover up even on the beach..for sun protection and because i dont like the looks of the guys but either way i get looks kuz then the foriegners stare! lol cant win.


That's partly true.
"i dont fully blame the men" Well you should, it's their fault... There's nothing in the world that would make me do what they do. Even if the women hit on them they should reject them and avoid them... It's not like a woman would point a gun to a guy's head and be like "DO ME NOW OR I KILL YOU" and even then I'd be like " Yea sure, pull the trigger!".

#Edit: Charlie's Angel said it all down there and I totally agree with her!


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## Maggot

Charlie's Angel said:


> There is a massive difference in culture between what is acceptable in the western world and whats acceptable in Eygpt, where as I agree that there are many women who also go there just to use men the overwhelming majority are men using women, if a woman decides to hit on a man, does this give him the right to accept??? NO if he is a decent man, like any decent woman you would walk away.
> 
> The women you described that walk around with their ass hanging out of their thong and nearly topless most likely are prostitutes, it seems to me like you are viewing all the women on holiday with the same view - like an egyptian man would
> 
> I certainly did not go on holiday to show off, act loose, get my bits out or hit on any men!!!! I always dressed modestly caus that's just the way I am. Most people will not be aware of the culture all they know is they're going on holiday to a hot country and they pack accordingly (blame the fashion industry they sell the b***dy clothes!) and when this maybe the only two week holiday they get a year, well yes I'm sorry they might get drunk and they might have a good time, this does not give anyone the right to rip anybody off, lie and manipulate there way into peoples lives, and in some cases ruin them.
> 
> Maybe you should try and talk to some of these women on holiday instead of judging them, then you might realize they are nice people just letting of steam, not there to hurt anybody.


All true, Agreed!

Mari's Maggot.


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## Maggot

layla13 said:


> the guys see foreigners as an easy target


Decent foreigners (Which are many) are not an easy target, I rather call them an Impossible target. But the easy targets are the prostitutes who come to Egypt to get laid. And still decent foreigners fall for Egyptian guys sometimes but that's not because they're stupid or anything it's just because they're too kind and trusting besides how would you know if a guy/girl lying to you or not. Well the point is never compare decent foreigners to prostitutes, prostitutes know that they're being used and they want to be used but decent foreigners get scammed.

"because many of the ppl that visit here are half naked and come here to show off and act "loose"and party." "*some* of the women in hurghada omg.. they look like *prostitutes*.." That said it all 

All the best,
Mari's Maggot.


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## MaidenScotland

Maggot said:


> Decent foreigners (Which are many) are not an easy target, I rather call them an Impossible target. But the easy targets are the prostitutes who come to Egypt to get laid. And still decent foreigners fall for Egyptian guys sometimes but that's not because they're stupid or anything it's just because they're too kind and trusting besides how would you know if a guy/girl lying to you or not. Well the point is never compare decent foreigners to prostitutes, prostitutes know that they're being used and they want to be used but decent foreigners get scammed.
> 
> "because many of the ppl that visit here are half naked and come here to show off and act "loose"and party." "*some* of the women in hurghada omg.. they look like *prostitutes*.." That said it all
> 
> All the best,
> Mari's Maggot.




Have you seen the young girls that wonder around Cairo with the hijjab and a every item of clothing so tight that nothing is left to the imagination¿ They also walk as if they had a pair of kittens in their jeans trying to escape
The platnium mall in Mohandiseen is a mall used by local girls.. me I call it the ****ty mall as I have never seen such tarty clothes in my life.
Egyptian men hit on foreign women not because of the way they dress.. but because they think there is money and or a visa


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## layla13

Charlie's Angel said:


> There is a massive difference in culture between what is acceptable in the western world and whats acceptable in Eygpt, where as I agree that there are many women who also go there just to use men the overwhelming majority are men using women, if a woman decides to hit on a man, does this give him the right to accept??? NO if he is a decent man, like any decent woman you would walk away.
> 
> The women you described that walk around with their ass hanging out of their thong and nearly topless most likely are prostitutes, it seems to me like you are viewing all the women on holiday with the same view - like an egyptian man would
> 
> I certainly did not go on holiday to show off, act loose, get my bits out or hit on any men!!!! I always dressed modestly caus that's just the way I am. Most people will not be aware of the culture all they know is they're going on holiday to a hot country and they pack accordingly (blame the fashion industry they sell the b***dy clothes!) and when this maybe the only two week holiday they get a year, well yes I'm sorry they might get drunk and they might have a good time, this does not give anyone the right to rip anybody off, lie and manipulate there way into peoples lives, and in some cases ruin them.
> 
> Maybe you should try and talk to some of these women on holiday instead of judging them, then you might realize they are nice people just letting of steam, not there to hurt anybody.




im not judging them but in this country how you dress tells about you when you dont know someone thats how it is.and i think they just dont realize it is a conservative country. they just seemed like women at the grocery store(not actual hookers) in their bathing suits.. i think they just dont care about the customs.. again i go by what i see.. im not saying all the women are like that many ppl are very aware and cover their private parts... off the beach. i never said they were hurting anyone or bad i just think theyre oblivious. but if one acts and dress a certain way youre bound to get unwanted and bad attention.. the ppl who do... give respectable women a bad name and maybe we dont want to see the ****iness going on lol. i have a right to my opinion based on what i observed. i think ppl dont realize how they look.. i dont think its because they are bad people.


----------



## layla13

MaidenScotland said:


> Have you seen the young girls that wonder around Cairo with the hijjab and a every item of clothing so tight that nothing is left to the imagination¿ They also walk as if they had a pair of kittens in their jeans trying to escape
> The platnium mall in Mohandiseen is a mall used by local girls.. me I call it the ****ty mall as I have never seen such tarty clothes in my life.
> Egyptian men hit on foreign women not because of the way they dress.. but because they think there is money and or a visa



i agree the younger girls wear tight clothes.. to me makes them look poor but whatever lol their skin is still covered and usually wear long shirts. maybe those women who dress like tarts are looking for foriegn guys to marry... there are a lot of christians in egypt. do they have the same rules?


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## aykalam

layla13 said:


> the men here are like what women have been doing forever.. using men to get money by acting all sweet but down and out... the guys see foreigners as an easy target because many of the ppl that visit here are half naked and come here to show off and act "loose"and party. im american and we wear what we like but some of the women in hurghada omg.. they look like prostitutes..(hate to say it but mostly russians) and they walk around the city with their asses in thongs showing. (ive seen women almost topless outside the resorts and they didnt look good.lol
> the ppl here do not find it acceptable its shameful behavior. so many of the guys think its ok to USE these women in any way they can for money,visa and or sex. thats the bottom line..they dont respect them.
> 
> in my apt building ive seen women come here and stay and hit on all the egyptian guys... the doormen.. the owner.. any guy... it doesnt make women look nice at all its rude and nasty. so i dont fully blame the men.. any time a woman acts badly.. there will be men around to take advantage of it.
> 
> i cover up even on the beach..for sun protection and because i dont like the looks of the guys but either way i get looks kuz then the foriegners stare! lol cant win.


I think people (both foreigners and locals) should stop judging people by what they wear or by how they choose to spend their free time. Since when is the onus on the victim not to attract  ?

Not everyone who wears little is a prostitute (yes I know, I've been to Sharm many times) and by the same token not everyone who wears the hijab 
is not one 

If I go on a beach holiday I most certainly will not choose to cover up. Having said that, I respect people who do, even if I don't see the point.


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## MaidenScotland

layla13 said:


> im not judging them but in this country how you dress tells about you when you dont know someone thats how it is.and i think they just dont realize it is a conservative country. they just seemed like women at the grocery store(not actual hookers) in their bathing suits.. i think they just dont care about the customs.. again i go by what i see.. im not saying all the women are like that many ppl are very aware and cover their private parts... off the beach. i never said they were hurting anyone or bad i just think theyre oblivious. but if one acts and dress a certain way youre bound to get unwanted and bad attention.. the ppl who do... give respectable women a bad name and maybe we dont want to see the ****iness going on lol. i have a right to my opinion based on what i observed. i think ppl dont realize how they look.. i dont think its because they are bad people.


Egypt is conservative when it suits.

NO matter what anyone is wearing or not wearing they should not be subjected to unwanted attention... do you belong to the she was asking for it brigade?.

I personally wouldn´t wear a swim costume to the store.
On another note why do shop keepers allow them in?
If you go to Barbados you certainly will not be allowed in any shops, cafes, bansk, if you are wearing swimwear... they have their standards and culture and the thought of missing a sale from someone in their swimwear doesn´t bring them out in a sweat


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## Maggot

MaidenScotland said:


> Have you seen the young girls that wonder around Cairo with the hijjab and a every item of clothing so tight that nothing is left to the imagination¿ They also walk as if they had a pair of kittens in their jeans trying to escape
> The platnium mall in Mohandiseen is a mall used by local girls.. me I call it the ****ty mall as I have never seen such tarty clothes in my life.
> Egyptian men hit on foreign women not because of the way they dress.. but because they think there is money and or a visa


"Have you seen the young girls that wonder around Cairo with the hijjab and a every item of clothing so tight that nothing is left to the imagination¿ They also walk as if they had a pair of kittens in their jeans trying to escape" Yes I did and I see them at the university. I have also seen them with their "Muslim" parents (the father has a big beard and the mother is veiled) waiting a bus or wandering around.

"The platnium mall in Mohandiseen is a mall used by local girls.. me I call it the ****ty mall as I have never seen such tarty clothes in my life." True and yes i know that, I used to work there as a receptionist at the Platinum gym (Located at the fourth floor of the mall) and I left the job because my coworker dressed that way and she wasn't with the hijjab AND she hit on me even she was in a relationship with the manager so she gets more money, she would take any day she wants off and to be allowed to be late to work, in other words he f*cked her for money.
"Egyptian men hit on foreign women not because of the way they dress.. but because they think there is money and or a visa" True, I got the offer to do so as well but guess what I rejected it. And yea I'm in a relationship with a Finnish girl, she offered me money I didn't take it and asked her to never offer me any money again (even tho i was in a very bad need for any money just to buy some food) and later she also offered me to help me with the travel cost and buy me the tickets I refused and I told her that I'll collect ALL the money for the travel costs and she won't pay a cent, I never let her buy me anything and I'm not after a visa either... But you're right, they're after their money and a visa. I say it again "Never trust any Egyptian".

Mari's Maggot.


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## Charlie's Angel

layla13 said:


> im not judging them but in this country how you dress tells about you when you dont know someone thats how it is.and i think they just dont realize it is a conservative country. they just seemed like women at the grocery store(not actual hookers) in their bathing suits.. i think they just dont care about the customs.. again i go by what i see.. im not saying all the women are like that many ppl are very aware and cover their private parts... off the beach. i never said they were hurting anyone or bad i just think theyre oblivious. but if one acts and dress a certain way youre bound to get unwanted and bad attention.. the ppl who do... give respectable women a bad name and maybe we dont want to see the ****iness going on lol. i have a right to my opinion based on what i observed. i think ppl dont realize how they look.. i dont think its because they are bad people.



You're right everyone has a right to their own opinion, I personally don't go on holiday and see other western women in the bathing suits and think oh yes she must be a prostitute and being from the US I would have thought you a little more open minded, after all they supplied us all with 'Baywatch' 

The point I was trying to make is that when you book your holiday for example in the UK, it doesn't come with a warning to dress modestly and if you have never visited Egypt or any other muslim country you really will have no idea like me the first time I visited. Thankfully, I do dress fairly modestly so didn't feel too bad, on my second visit to Cairo in non tourist areas I was more aware that time and dressed accordingly. The tourists I did see in short skirts and low cut tops to be honest looked awkward and I felt really sorry for them, it was obvious they had no idea on how to dress, but I certainly didn't think bad of them, just hoped they would learn from this like I did. But that all said in the brochures there's pictures of the beach, people in swimwear, they advertise the bars and clubs and invite you to come and have a good time, so that's what they do, after all that's why we call it a 'holiday'. Maybe aswell as educating the western women on how to dress, the egyptian men working in tourism could do with educating too on their behaviour and how not to treat women like meat, walking cash points and free tickets to the golden land.


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## layla13

MaidenScotland said:


> Egypt is conservative when it suits.
> 
> NO matter what anyone is wearing or not wearing they should not be subjected to unwanted attention... do you belong to the she was asking for it brigade?.
> 
> I personally wouldn´t wear a swim costume to the store.
> On another note why do shop keepers allow them in?
> If you go to Barbados you certainly will not be allowed in any shops, cafes, bansk, if you are wearing swimwear... they have their standards and culture and the thought of missing a sale from someone in their swimwear doesn´t bring them out in a sweat


in the states also, if you dont have a shirt and shoes on you cant shop. it seems to be a strange thing because the local ppl have not been used to this i dont think they know how to deal with it. also its not a rich country. 

i think even in cairo it is way more conservative then hurghada and sharm. i didnt see many people even wearing shorts in cairo. before I cam to egypt the suggestions for clothes was long sleeves and pants. i have 2 reasons for covering up.. one is i go to the beach for snorkling not sunbathing and i dont like to get tan too much sun is bad for the skin so its a protection. also.. unwanted stares. in the states guys dont stare like they do here.. they've been trained lol i think its relatively new here... showing skin,  because the beach towns havent been around all that long for visitors. 

i dont belong to the "she asked for it" brigade lol im american used to freedom of doing what we want but one has to take precautions.. i wouldnt dress half naked in a another country where the laws are different and culture is different.. as to NOT OFFEND anyone of a sensitive nature and for my own safety. we have to take responsibility for ourselves. what you put out is what you get back.


----------



## aykalam

layla13 said:


> i dont belong to the "she asked for it" brigade lol im american used to freedom of doing what we want but one has to take precautions.. i wouldnt dress half naked in a another country where the laws are different and culture is different.. as to NOT OFFEND anyone of a sensitive nature and for my own safety. we have to take responsibility for ourselves. what you put out is what you get back.


So if I get harassed walking down the streets in Cairo is my fault for not covering up??? So what about the hijabbis and niqabis who, despite all those meters of fabric, still get harassed???


----------



## Maggot

aykalam said:


> So if I get harassed walking down the streets in Cairo is my fault for not covering up??? So what about the hijabbis and niqabis who, despite all those meters of fabric, still get harassed???


True, they all get harassed. It's not about what they wear...

And about the "she asked for it" if she asked for it then she has no right to complain and she deserves what happens to her, and still it's also the guy's fault as he shouldn't have approved.

Mari's Maggot.


----------



## Charlie's Angel

layla13 said:


> i dont belong to the "she asked for it" brigade lol im american used to freedom of doing what we want but one has to take precautions.. i wouldnt dress half naked in a another country where the laws are different and culture is different.. as to NOT OFFEND anyone of a sensitive nature and for my own safety. we have to take responsibility for ourselves. what you put out is what you get back.


So we shouldn't feel safe if we're not dressed modestly, humm, maybe the government better start handing leaflets out then when we book our holidays!! I was dressed modestly and still got done over, so to speak, and this OFFENDED me!!!


----------



## layla13

aykalam said:


> So if I get harassed walking down the streets in Cairo is my fault for not covering up??? So what about the hijabbis and niqabis who, despite all those meters of fabric, still get harassed???


No, its the mans fault for not controlling himself and for his parents to not teach him manners. more times then not the women getting harrassed are not wearing hijab/abayas and possibly are in a place where primarily men are.

i dont know how many people know but there is a segregation of the sexes.. there are old style cafes that are meant for just men and no women should be there, for example. its being aware and taking care of yourself.. not everyone is nice .. is all im saying its not that its a womans fault. the men are not conditioned to deal with women being freely among men unless they are "loose" so to speak.. like what are they looking for to be all around the men.. when maybe to the woman shes a visitor and doesnt know any better... but really... when i went to cairo the first time it was like a different world.. i noticed the cafes with ALL men. the electronics shopping area in attaba ALL MEN why would i dare go there especially alone lol i chalk it up to culture clash...


----------



## layla13

Charlie's Angel said:


> So we shouldn't feel safe if we're not dressed modestly, humm, maybe the government better start handing leaflets out then when we book our holidays!! I was dressed modestly and still got done over, so to speak, and this OFFENDED me!!!



i wouldnt feel safe not dressed modestly no way.. i know what you mean it happened to me also.. covered with hijab and got catcalled alot.. you must be white. i get scared to think if i was dressed "sexy" what could happen. did you complain to the tourist police.. because thats not acceptable. i think any visitor has to be especially careful if they are white westerners. because the country is mostly arabs. we stand out. lol a true muslim would never do any of that stuff they would be worried about punishment from allah. some muslims in cairo belive it is a sin to even live in hurghada lol to be around it.


----------



## aykalam

layla13 said:


> No, its the mans fault for not controlling himself and for his parents to not teach him manners. more times then not the women getting harrassed are not wearing hijab/abayas and possibly are in a place where primarily men are.
> 
> i dont know how many people know but there is a segregation of the sexes.. there are old style cafes that are meant for just men and no women should be there, for example. its being aware and taking care of yourself.. not everyone is nice .. is all im saying its not that its a womans fault. the men are not conditioned to deal with women being freely among men unless they are "loose" so to speak.. like what are they looking for to be all around the men.. when maybe to the woman shes a visitor and doesnt know any better... but really... when i went to cairo the first time it was like a different world.. i noticed the cafes with ALL men. the electronics shopping area in attaba ALL MEN why would i dare go there especially alone lol i chalk it up to culture clash...


 mine was a rhetorical question really, I don't need someone else to tell me that if a guy is harassing me it is his fault (and only his).


----------



## layla13

aykalam said:


> mine was a rhetorical question really, I don't need someone else to tell me that if a guy is harassing me it is his fault (and only his).


very true, you alone would know if it was "brouhgt on" by something you said or did. the men are old fashioned.


----------



## aykalam

layla13 said:


> very true, you alone would know if it was "brouhgt on" by something you said or did. the men are old fashioned.


what is that supposed to mean?


----------



## layla13

aykalam said:


> what is that supposed to mean?


if you did'nt do anything to provoke harassment then you know you don't deserve it.


----------



## aykalam

layla13 said:


> if you did'nt do anything to provoke harassment then you know you don't deserve it.


charming


----------



## SalmaHAH

Well ladies, it looks as if I will remain married to my husband. When given lemons make lemonade right. All I can do is trust in Allah that he is being faithful and he does truly love me. Hmmmmm wonder why that doesn't ring so true. I will be coming for a visit to Egypt as soon as I possibly can to 'check' up on his true status... I asked him if his vision of married life was to be married but just not have to live with his wife; he thought that was funny... The conversation with the attorney here was very enlightening...no problem to divorce, just no bank to rob to pay for it!!!


----------



## SHendra

SalmaHAH said:


> Well ladies, it looks as if I will remain married to my husband. When given lemons make lemonade right. All I can do is trust in Allah that he is being faithful and he does truly love me. Hmmmmm wonder why that doesn't ring so true. I will be coming for a visit to Egypt as soon as I possibly can to 'check' up on his true status... I asked him if his vision of married life was to be married but just not have to live with his wife; he thought that was funny... The conversation with the attorney here was very enlightening...no problem to divorce, just no bank to rob to pay for it!!!


Out of interest did you guys marry in Egypt or USA? If in Egypt did you register the marriage to your embassy to be reconised in the USA? 

If yes to Egypt and no to registering then divorce is not that expensive at all! And can be done pretty quick! I'm speaking from experience here too.. mine took a week and didn't cost me a penny. (With the exception of a bottle of wine on the night of the divorce! )


----------



## SalmaHAH

SHendra said:


> Out of interest did you guys marry in Egypt or USA? If in Egypt did you register the marriage to your embassy to be reconised in the USA?
> 
> If yes to Egypt and no to registering then divorce is not that expensive at all! And can be done pretty quick! I'm speaking from experience here too.. mine took a week and didn't cost me a penny. (With the exception of a bottle of wine on the night of the divorce! )


Well, we did marry in Egypt but YES it is registered and recognized in the USA because we had gotten him is 'conditional' green card (which by the way expires in 2 days and because he has been back in Egypt since Sept. 6, 2009; he is out of luck). So I really messed up that way. At least I know it wasn't a green card he was after  Unfortunately I do love him and he was a good husband in many ways; but I have been through an emotional hell since 6 Sept 2009 and don't know what to believe or think about him. I have refused to send him money or help him in anyway since he left. Surprisingly he has been very good about that, he does ask occasionally but I simply tell him he is NOT married to a bank, just his wife... Don't know what or how I will proceed from here. Still trying to digest the expense of a divorce...


----------



## SHendra

SalmaHAH said:


> Well, we did marry in Egypt but YES it is registered and recognized in the USA because we had gotten him is 'conditional' green card (which by the way expires in 2 days and because he has been back in Egypt since Sept. 6, 2009; he is out of luck). So I really messed up that way. At least I know it wasn't a green card he was after  Unfortunately I do love him and he was a good husband in many ways; but I have been through an emotional hell since 6 Sept 2009 and don't know what to believe or think about him. I have refused to send him money or help him in anyway since he left. Surprisingly he has been very good about that, he does ask occasionally but I simply tell him he is NOT married to a bank, just his wife... Don't know what or how I will proceed from here. Still trying to digest the expense of a divorce...


Whats the chances of you getting him to divorce you here in Egypt? You then get the divorce cert stamp by the ministry of some name i forgotton! lol to then be reconiszed your end. Of course you would have to come to do the divorce though. But the actual divorce cost wont be on you. He would have to pay you half of what agreed upon in your marriage contract. However you can actually agree to 'waive' that (if you wish to just get it over with!) This is how it was for me anyway! Since I made it clear to him if he did not divorce me then I would go to court to demand my rights of him 'financially supporting' me since this how it goes here. That was enough to make mine jump! it's just an idea.


----------



## DeadGuy

Egypt, Tunisia, some other Arab gulf countries and some other countries in the Mediterranean area are the number 1 destination for some “ladies” for a specific kind of “fun” yes, HOWEVER no one would ever see ANY of the “ladies” who would spend at least 4 hours in a plane to get that kinda “fun” complaining anywhere..............The ones complaining are obviously the ones who are offended by the bizarre behavior of the locals.................So it’s *NOT *the same!

And yes most Egyptian “men” do take advantage of ANY foreigner, they never bother to see if the person is here simply to relax and have a week/couple of weeks off, or to have that kinda “fun”..............They just try “fishing” and they don’t care much who’s gonna be annoyed by their weird behavior! They only thing that would make them notice that someone’s not happy with what they’re doing would probably be a SLAP on their empty heads, and unfortunately, I don’t see many females making the point that they’re annoyed clear enough, foreigners or Egyptians!

But even with the “fun” seeking females, I agree with the opinions saying that a guy can always reject whatever unwanted “gesture” by anyone! But in real life, the majority never do that!

The reasons for foreign females being the main target for those deprived idiots are many, visa, money, sex, etc. and those are the “famous” reasons; the fact that if that idiot tried doing just HALF of what he’s trying to do with a foreign female but with an Egyptian one, he’d probably end up being beaten by every walking male in the street is another reason..............”People” in here would probably show a more “aggressive” reaction towards a local female being harassed IF the victim did ask for help than towards a foreign one in the same situation for some reason! (May be they think you guys are just aliens? LOL).


The “religion” in here is all about words printed in a book for both Muslim and Christian Egyptians, the majority of the population in here fear other people more than they fear God or Allah or whatever you wanna call it, so it’s not about religion only or the dress only, most Egyptians are just hypocrites about that! In most cases the only reason for someone not to have sex before marriage in here would be that it would cost them a lot of money and then after paying they might get caught, not cause of religion!

110% covered females do get harassed as well as mentioned, so the way I see it? If a female is walking butt naked that’s her choice, she should NEVER be blamed for “asking” for “people” to harass her in any possible way, if a guy is stupid enough to focus on the what someone’s wearing and disregard the behavior then this is the one who should take the whole blame! And a SLAP would probably make anyone's point clear enough in here......Just as a nice suggestion...... could be made in a more rough way, you figure it out  

Good luck surviving in here folks


----------



## DeadGuy

SHendra said:


> Whats the chances of you getting him to divorce you here in Egypt? You then get the divorce cert stamp by the ministry of some name i forgotton! lol to then be reconiszed your end. Of course you would have to come to do the divorce though. But the actual divorce cost wont be on you. He would have to pay you half of what agreed upon in your marriage contract. However you can actually agree to 'waive' that (if you wish to just get it over with!) This is how it was for me anyway! Since I made it clear to him if he did not divorce me then I would go to court to demand my rights of him 'financially supporting' me since this how it goes here. That was enough to make mine jump! it's just an idea.


The stamp of the ministry of foreign affairs?

In case the guy does not "wish" to divorce the courts might end ruling for the husband's part, so the alternative for that is to go for a "Khol'h", in that the wife will be entitled the right paper work that will state that she's NOT married to that guy anymore, but she would have to drop all her other rights (Mostly financial rights anyway, so no big deal).


----------



## SalmaHAH

SHendra said:


> Whats the chances of you getting him to divorce you here in Egypt? You then get the divorce cert stamp by the ministry of some name i forgotton! lol to then be reconiszed your end. Of course you would have to come to do the divorce though. But the actual divorce cost wont be on you. He would have to pay you half of what agreed upon in your marriage contract. However you can actually agree to 'waive' that (if you wish to just get it over with!) This is how it was for me anyway! Since I made it clear to him if he did not divorce me then I would go to court to demand my rights of him 'financially supporting' me since this how it goes here. That was enough to make mine jump! it's just an idea.


I LOVE that idea, just one small problem; he absolutely freaks out when I mention divorce and I have mentioned it several times. I am his wife and he loves me forever. But, I think you are right and I will come over and see what happens. Since it will take me awhile to save up the money to get over there and then the living expenses, he will probably be more than willing to divorce...I wish I could get over there faster but...life here in the States is not easy. Wish I had my income here in Egypt (in other words worked in Egypt) I would be very wealthy over there. Thanks for the advice. Good to know.


----------



## layla13

Horus said:


> Suits me fine 100% I don't mind getting married to an Egyptian lady - as long as she is westernised, kind and caring and does not look like a beast. It's human nature when you go shopping just because a pear or peach tastes sweet you don't choose the rotten looking one do you?
> 
> I am not exactly poor and have a steady income however I won't be fleeced or scammed.
> 
> Conversion is fine, I can eat bacon in secret. Depends how hot she is really.


I thought you are married lol


----------



## MaidenScotland

layla13 said:


> if you did'nt do anything to provoke harassment then you know you don't deserve it.




You have to be kidding!!!


----------



## MaidenScotland

I have no problem with prostitutes... they at least admit they are having sex for money and they should have the same rights as anyone else not to be harassed.. despite their occupation.


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## SalmaHAH

MaidenScotland said:


> I have no problem with prostitutes... they at least admit they are having sex for money and they should have the same rights as anyone else not to be harassed.. despite their occupation.


I agree with you.


----------



## layla13

if they are exposing themselves indecently then they are breaking the law.. otherwise they should have rights like anyone else. in vegas, NV, usa, they have places of prostitution... not street walking... some people see a prostitute walking up to their car at a red light harassment. its all about self respect. selling sex for money out in the open is not considered respecting yourself. but we all have a right to our opinions.

and i said previously... about provoking... if someone acts/looks like a "****" then they should not expect everyone to think they are classy and respecting them. because no one does. guys ask all the time why does a woman dress provocatively if she does'nt want attention?good question. 

it puts out a message, even if its not a true message, in what we wear and how we carry ourselves. someone in the states recently got kicked out of a courtroom for having her belly exposed... i mean im just saying there are limits to what society thinks is acceptable behavior.. and in egyptian society its NOT accepted to dress like a **** or act like one lol everyone will stare and glare lol


----------



## DeadGuy

layla13 said:


> if they are exposing themselves indecently then they are breaking the law.. otherwise they should have rights like anyone else. in vegas, NV, usa, they have places of prostitution... not street walking... some people see a prostitute walking up to their car at a red light harassment. its all about self respect. selling sex for money out in the open is not considered respecting yourself. but we all have a right to our opinions.
> 
> and i said previously... about provoking... if someone acts/looks like a "****" then they should not expect everyone to think they are classy and respecting them. because no one does. guys ask all the time why does a woman dress provocatively if she does'nt want attention?good question.
> 
> it puts out a message, even if its not a true message, in what we wear and how we carry ourselves. someone in the states recently got kicked out of a courtroom for having her belly exposed... i mean im just saying there are limits to what society thinks is acceptable behavior.. and in egyptian society its NOT accepted to dress like a **** or act like one lol everyone will stare and glare lol



Seriously I can not agree more on that........

It is very provoking to see a girl standing somewhere with her baby waiting for a school bus.....

It's also very sexy to see a girl making a call from her cell phone......Specially if the girl is COMPLETELY covered from head to toes! Yummy!

And it's a real turn on to see a girl carrying her groceries back home after a long day at work........

Excuse me, but how do you define "Provoking" or "****ty"?! Or it's everyone's fault that someone's a real pervert that can't just control his lil wee wee?! 

I'm sorry but it's really hard to believe that you're a "she", not to mention the USA part.......Or may be you just overstayed here?!


----------



## aykalam

DeadGuy said:


> Seriously I can not agree more on that........
> 
> It is very provoking to see a girl standing somewhere with her baby waiting for a school bus.....
> 
> It's also very sexy to see a girl making a call from her cell phone......Specially if the girl is COMPLETELY covered from head to toes! Yummy!
> 
> And it's a real turn on to see a girl carrying her groceries back home after a long day at work........
> 
> Excuse me, but how do you define "Provoking" or "****ty"?! Or it's everyone's fault that someone's a real pervert that can't just control his lil wee wee?!
> 
> I'm sorry but it's really hard to believe that you're a "she", not to mention the USA part.......Or may be you just overstayed here?!


There's a famous saying: "being more catholic than the Pope" I think it fits perfectly


----------



## DeadGuy

aykalam said:


> There's a famous saying: "being more catholic than the Pope" I think it fits perfectly


Well if I got the "definitions" right then each and every female I ever known, including my own family members, would be just cheap ****s........:noidea:

Gotta love the 21st century though........

This is really sad as a friend of mine would say in a weird situation like this one


----------



## layla13

DeadGuy said:


> Seriously I can not agree more on that........
> 
> It is very provoking to see a girl standing somewhere with her baby waiting for a school bus.....
> 
> It's also very sexy to see a girl making a call from her cell phone......Specially if the girl is COMPLETELY covered from head to toes! Yummy!
> 
> And it's a real turn on to see a girl carrying her groceries back home after a long day at work........
> 
> Excuse me, but how do you define "Provoking" or "****ty"?! Or it's everyone's fault that someone's a real pervert that can't just control his lil wee wee?!
> 
> I'm sorry but it's really hard to believe that you're a "she", not to mention the USA part.......Or may be you just overstayed here?!



I don't know where i ever said it was fine to harass someone first of all. It is not.

BUT if someone is dressed with everything hanging out/showing then ONE has to expect some harassment, not saying its right. thats all im saying. 

what kind of harassment are you talking about for someone to be harassed doing daily activities fully clothed? 

what does gender have to do with it? I am a female born naturally lol and yes I am from the USA 3rd generation American. But that does not mean we are all for walking around naked and not respecting the customs of other countries. i was making reference to ppl who don't care to respect the customs of a country they're in, yet want respect for anything they might do against the culture. 

you're making it like Im saying its ok to harass people which i am not saying at all. but even a woman walking alone or women traveling alone does attract the unwanted attention because of the CULTURE.


----------



## Charlie's Angel

DeadGuy said:


> Seriously I can not agree more on that........
> 
> It is very provoking to see a girl standing somewhere with her baby waiting for a school bus.....
> 
> It's also very sexy to see a girl making a call from her cell phone......Specially if the girl is COMPLETELY covered from head to toes! Yummy!
> 
> And it's a real turn on to see a girl carrying her groceries back home after a long day at work........
> 
> Excuse me, but how do you define "Provoking" or "****ty"?! Or it's everyone's fault that someone's a real pervert that can't just control his lil wee wee?!
> 
> I'm sorry but it's really hard to believe that you're a "she", not to mention the USA part.......Or may be you just overstayed here?!


:lol: I had know idea how sexy I must have looked struggling to cross two busy roads in Cairo whilst carrying three grocery bags, so that's why there was so much traffic


----------



## layla13

oh and yes its true the Arabian men are aroused very easily i think they're not as de-senstitized as most . why do you think women cover their hair here? because its arousing to the men. Allah says cover your charms as a protection against unwanted attention... hair is a turn on... cute faces are a turn on... also has anyone seen the crime rate here? its very low.. rape included.. so they can keep it in their pants... i guess they just drool a lot lol


----------



## layla13

Charlie's Angel said:


> :lol: I had know idea how sexy I must have looked struggling to cross two busy roads in Cairo whilst carrying three grocery bags, so that's why there was so much traffic


lol but how did someone harass you.. they ran up and grabbed your butt? lol


----------



## MaidenScotland

layla13 said:


> I don't know where i ever said it was fine to harass someone first of all. It is not.
> 
> BUT if someone is dressed with everything hanging out/showing then ONE has to expect some harassment, not saying its right. thats all im saying.
> 
> what kind of harassment are you talking about for someone to be harassed doing daily activities fully clothed?
> 
> what does gender have to do with it? I am a female born naturally lol and yes I am from the USA 3rd generation American. But that does not mean we are all for walking around naked and not respecting the customs of other countries. i was making reference to ppl who don't care to respect the customs of a country they're in, yet want respect for anything they might do against the culture.
> 
> you're making it like Im saying its ok to harass people which i am not saying at all. but even a woman walking alone or women traveling alone does attract the unwanted attention because of the CULTURE.




I find after reading your comments difficulty in believing you are a women and from the west... in one statement you say no you are not a ¨¨she was asking for it advocate then in this post you say that BUT if someone is dressed with everything hanging out/showing then ONE has to expect some harassment ,, a contridiction,
I am a grandmother and I constantly get harrarsed in Cairo.... nothing to do with dress. I have been molested in the lift in the building I lived in, I have been flashed at and I was walking with a child at the time.. I do not know ONE expat female who has not been harrased, we all must dress like ****s


----------



## DeadGuy

layla13 said:


> I don't know where i ever said it was fine to harass someone first of all. It is not.
> 
> BUT if someone is dressed with everything hanging out/showing then ONE has to expect some harassment, not saying its right. thats all im saying.
> 
> what kind of harassment are you talking about for someone to be harassed doing daily activities fully clothed?
> 
> what does gender have to do with it? I am a female born naturally lol and yes I am from the USA 3rd generation American. But that does not mean we are all for walking around naked and not respecting the customs of other countries. i was making reference to ppl who don't care to respect the customs of a country they're in, yet want respect for anything they might do against the culture.
> 
> you're making it like Im saying its ok to harass people which i am not saying at all. but even a woman walking alone or women traveling alone does attract the unwanted attention because of the CULTURE.





Obviously I can read English so I know what you’ve been saying, Ma’am! 

And surprisingly, I also do understand that there are ****ty “ladies”, but let me show you what you did say!


layla13 said:


> if you did'nt do anything to provoke harassment then you know you don't deserve it.


So according to that, the unfortunate situations that happen on a daily basis with almost EVERY female all over Egypt, INCLUDING EGYPTIAN ONES who never wear a bathing suit unless they’re on a beach - Or you know what, forget those ****ty ones, the FULLY COVERED females!- All this is happening to them cause they “did something to deserve it”?!! So, the question now, how ****ty do you think they are to be harassed like that?!

Or lemme guess?! There’s NO harassment in Egypt? It only happens where foreigners are located?! 

Perhaps the females should just stick to their homes and just do the cooking and cleaning?! Cause obviously just a WALKING female is “****ty” enough for some to justify harassing her!

And if that was to be justified by the word “Culture”?! Then allow me to say FU*K that perverted culture!


----------



## MaidenScotland

layla13 said:


> oh and yes its true the Arabian men are aroused very easily i think they're not as de-senstitized as most . why do you think women cover their hair here? because its arousing to the men. Allah says cover your charms as a protection against unwanted attention... hair is a turn on... cute faces are a turn on... also has anyone seen the crime rate here? its very low.. rape included.. so they can keep it in their pants... i guess they just drool a lot lol



You dont half talk a load of rubbish...
who told you the crime rate is low? 
Egyptian women don´t report sexual abuse/rape/molesting... 

BBC 

Sexual harassment of women in Egypt is on the increase and observing Islamic dress code is no deterrent, according to a survey published this week. 

The Egyptian Centre for Women's Rights (ECWR) describes the problem as a social cancer and calls on the government to introduce legislation to curb it. 

The findings contradict the widely held belief in Egypt that unveiled women are more likely to suffer harassment than veiled ones. 

SEXUAL HARASSMENT IN EGYPT 
Experienced by 98% of foreign women visitors
Experienced by 83% of Egyptian women
62% of Egyptian men admitted harassing women
53% of Egyptian men blame women for 'bringing it on'
Source: Egyptian Centre for Women's Rights 
Participants in the survey were shown pictures of women wearing different kinds of dress - from the mini skirt to the niqab (full face veil) and asked which were more likely to be harassed. 

More than 60% - including female respondents - suggested the scantily clad woman was most at risk. But in reality the study concluded the majority of the victims of harassment were modestly dressed women wearing Islamic headscarves. 

ECWR head Nihad Abu El-Qoumsan said that even veiled women who were victims of harassment blamed themselves. 

Western women who took part in the study demonstrated a strong belief in their entitlement to personal safety and freedom of movement, she says, but this was totally absent among Egyptian respondents. 

No-one spoke about freedom of choice, freedom of movement or the right to legal protection. No-one showed any awareness that the harasser was a criminal, regardless of what clothes the victim was wearing. 

Shocking attitude 

The centre is campaigning for a new law that clearly defines sexual harassment as a crime and makes it easier for women to report it in Egypt - women like Noha Ostath. 


Women are targets for harassment whether they are fully covered or not 
The young film-maker told the BBC she was repeatedly groped in broad daylight by a van driver in a Cairo traffic jam as she walked on the pavement. 

His behaviour made her so angry she ran after the van and held on to the side mirror to force the driver to stop so she could take him to a police station. 

She was equally shocked by the attitude of other passers-by. Some tried to dissuade her from going to the police - others blamed her for what she was wearing (a baggy sports outfit). 

In the end, after a tussle with the man that lasted for more than one hour, the strong-willed Ms Ostath dragged the man to the police station. 

But even there, police officers refused to open an investigation and insisted on the presence of her father despite the fact that she is not a minor - she is 26. 

Impudent allegation 

After Noha's story was published in the Badeel daily, editor-in-chief Muhammad El Sayyed Said wrote that the behaviour of the crowd was characteristic of oppressed societies, where the majority identified with the oppressor. 

He blamed the increase in sexual harassment on what he said were "three decades of incitement against women" from the pulpits of some of Egypt's mosques. 

"This verbal incitement is based on the extremely sordid and impudent allegation that our women are not modestly dressed. This was, and still is, a flagrant lie, used to justify violence against women in the name of religion." 

The British foreign office says Egypt is one of the countries with the highest number of cases reported to embassy staff regarding sexual offences against visiting women. 

It warns them to be extra cautious in public places especially when alone because of the risks. 

Ms Abou El-Qoumsan says Egyptians need to re-evaluate their value system and school curricula and to ensure that the rule of law prevails and prevents offenders and criminals walking free because of a breakdown of basic notions of right and wrong. 

Thanks to surveys like this, one encounters an endless number of newspaper articles reflecting the feeling that Egypt is in the grip of a moral crisis. 

Perhaps nothing illustrates Egypt's loss of a moral compass than the responses of some men in the ECWR study. 

Some said they harassed a woman simply because they were bored. One who abused a woman wearing the niqab said she must be beautiful, or hiding something.


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## Charlie's Angel

layla13 said:


> oh and yes its true the Arabian men are aroused very easily i think they're not as de-senstitized as most . why do you think women cover their hair here? because its arousing to the men. Allah says cover your charms as a protection against unwanted attention... hair is a turn on... cute faces are a turn on... also has anyone seen the crime rate here? its very low.. rape included.. so they can keep it in their pants... i guess they just drool a lot lol



Wow I didn't realize I got such ****ty hair!! If the guys can't control their lil wee wee's over someones hair, then maybe they should take a leaf out of the book of 'Horus' and start taking more cold showers!


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## DeadGuy

layla13 said:


> oh and yes its true the Arabian men are aroused very easily i think they're not as de-senstitized as most . why do you think women cover their hair here? because its arousing to the men. Allah says cover your charms as a protection against unwanted attention... hair is a turn on... cute faces are a turn on... also has anyone seen the crime rate here? its very low.. rape included.. so they can keep it in their pants... i guess they just drool a lot lol


Great, so now it's about religion!!! 

Sorry but that actually sounds more stupid than your earlier comment about females EARNING the harassment, Alla said that and Alla also said respect each other, why do they have to listen to Alla and cover their bloody hair while those perverts walk freely harassing anything with 2 legs and b**bs?! Or they got a different Alla 

Or lemme guess? It's the Copts who do all the harassment?


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## MaidenScotland

layla13 said:


> lol but how did someone harass you.. they ran up and grabbed your butt? lol




You find that funny?


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## layla13

MaidenScotland said:


> I find after reading your comments difficulty in believing you are a women and from the west... in one statement you say no you are not a ¨¨she was asking for it advocate then in this post you say that BUT if someone is dressed with everything hanging out/showing then ONE has to expect some harassment ,, a contridiction,
> I am a grandmother and I constantly get harrarsed in Cairo.... nothing to do with dress. I have been molested in the lift in the building I lived in, I have been flashed at and I was walking with a child at the time.. I do not know ONE expat female who has not been harrased, we all must dress like ****s


well believe it because i am a western woman..lol i just respect the customs in a country that is'nt my own. its not a contradiction... im not condoning it at all but it will happen anywhere in the world whether we like it or not. 

wow you got flashed? thats unbelivable im sorry to hear that. it happened to me in cairo.. but nothing like that... i was walking alone to the store.. wearing jeans, long semi loose shirt and hijab.. minding my own business and it felt like every guy in the vicinity was looking and whistling to me to get my attention... i was shocked... but then later i found out that it was because it was after 11pm and a woman walking alone is usually a woman of ill repute so to speak. i was trying to be all independent was all. 

its the culture! the women here are not equals to men...they see it as "bad girl" to do certain things... sorry to say and i do not agree with it.. but thats the way it is... im not saying its right. i was originally referring to the women who are drunk.. barely clothed and rude and loud... expecting not to get unwanted attention... 

and by the way i have no reason to lie or even care what anyone thinks of my opinions.. if i was a guy id say i was a guy... whats the difference with opinions lol

but you know.. even smoking cigs.. if the men see a woman smoking in cairo.. they automatically think shes "easy" something that seems normal to us... is NOT normal to them... thats all i was trying top say sorry if i offended anyone lol


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## DeadGuy

Charlie's Angel said:


> :lol: I had know idea how sexy I must have looked struggling to cross two busy roads in Cairo whilst carrying three grocery bags, so that's why there was so much traffic


Well, as far as my female friends and my own sisters are concerned, that's the last thing that occurs to your mind in a situation like that, and actually if it did occur to your mind, it would only make you sick to the stomach just thinking of what kinda deprived idiotic pervert that found you "sexy".......


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## MaidenScotland

layla13 said:


> well believe it because i am a western woman..lol i just respect the customs in a country that is'nt my own. its not a contradiction... im not condoning it at all but it will happen anywhere in the world whether we like it or not.
> 
> wow you got flashed? thats unbelivable im sorry to hear that. it happened to me in cairo.. but nothing like that... i was walking alone to the store.. wearing jeans, long semi loose shirt and hijab.. minding my own business and it felt like every guy in the vicinity was looking and whistling to me to get my attention... i was shocked... but then later i found out that it was because it was after 11pm and a woman walking alone is usually a woman of ill repute so to speak. i was trying to be all independent was all.
> 
> its the culture! the women here are not equals to men...they see it as "bad girl" to do certain things... sorry to say and i do not agree with it.. but thats the way it is... im not saying its right. i was originally referring to the women who are drunk.. barely clothed and rude and loud... expecting not to get unwanted attention...
> 
> and by the way i have no reason to lie or even care what anyone thinks of my opinions.. if i was a guy id say i was a guy... whats the difference with opinions lol
> 
> but you know.. even smoking cigs.. if the men see a woman smoking in cairo.. they automatically think shes "easy" something that seems normal to us... is NOT normal to them... thats all i was trying top say sorry if i offended anyone lol





do you wear the hijab in america?


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## Charlie's Angel

DeadGuy said:


> Well, as far as my female friends and my own sisters are concerned, that's the last thing that occurs to your mind in a situation like that, and actually if it did occur to your mind, it would only make you sick to the stomach just thinking of what kinda deprived idiotic pervert that found you "sexy".......



The only thing on my mind was how to get across the road without becoming a 'Dead Girl'


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## DeadGuy

layla13 said:


> ..........................
> 
> it happened to me in cairo.. but nothing like that... i was walking alone to the store.. wearing jeans, long semi loose shirt and hijab.. minding my own business and it felt like every guy in the vicinity was looking and whistling to me to get my attention... i was shocked... but then later i found out that it was because it was after 11pm and a woman walking alone is usually a woman of ill repute so to speak. i was trying to be all independent was all
> 
> .....................


Let me quote you and see if it would offend you or not.......... 



layla13 said:


> if you did'nt do anything to provoke harassment then you know you don't deserve it.


But duhhhhhh, it's the Goddamn bloody "culture" after all......... A girl out after 11 PM is a "bad" one..........I wonder if that would be the same if it was 10:59 PM.......

Or did you? Earn it I mean?!


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## layla13

MaidenScotland said:


> do you wear the hijab in america?


the last time i went there i did wear a headscarf/hijab but wore it in a different style then here. at my sisters request to leave my "muslim gear" at home lol. on the opposite side of the spectrum you could be harassed for wearing a headscarf there.. but i had no harassment. 


this is all i was trying to say....was just trying to explain how the culture is lol Egypt travel guide - Wikitravel


Women should cover their arms and legs if travelling alone, and covering your hair may help to keep away unwanted attention. Though as a foreigner, you may get plenty of attention no matter what you wear, mainly including people staring at you along with some verbal harassment which you can try to ignore. Egyptian women, even those who wear the full hijab, are often subjected to sexual harassment, including cat calls. You may find that completely covering up does not make a huge difference, with regards to harassment, versus wearing a top with shorter sleeves. In regards to harassment, it's also important how you act. Going out with a group of people is also helpful, and the best thing to do is ignore men who give you unwanted attention. They want to get some reaction out of you. Also, one sign of respect is to use the Arabic greeting, "Asalamualaikum" (means "hello, peace be upon you"), and the other person should reply "Walaikumasalam" ("peace be upon you"). That lets the person know you want respect, and nothing else.


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## MaidenScotland

layla13 said:


> the last time i went there i did wear a headscarf/hijab but wore it in a different style then here. at my sisters request to leave my "muslim gear" at home lol. on the opposite side of the spectrum you could be harassed for wearing a headscarf there.. but i had no harassment.
> 
> 
> this is all i was trying to say....was just trying to explain how the culture is lol Egypt travel guide - Wikitravel
> 
> 
> Women should cover their arms and legs if travelling alone, and covering your hair may help to keep away unwanted attention. Though as a foreigner, you may get plenty of attention no matter what you wear, mainly including people staring at you along with some verbal harassment which you can try to ignore. Egyptian women, even those who wear the full hijab, are often subjected to sexual harassment, including cat calls. You may find that completely covering up does not make a huge difference, with regards to harassment, versus wearing a top with shorter sleeves. In regards to harassment, it's also important how you act. Going out with a group of people is also helpful, and the best thing to do is ignore men who give you unwanted attention. They want to get some reaction out of you. Also, one sign of respect is to use the Arabic greeting, "Asalamualaikum" (means "hello, peace be upon you"), and the other person should reply "Walaikumasalam" ("peace be upon you"). That lets the person know you want respect, and nothing else.




Ahhh so wearing the hijab is part of the american culture? 

You really should read what you post.. your above post is just stating exactly what we have been telling you...doesn´t matter what you wear here.. you are treated as easy meat


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## layla13

MaidenScotland said:


> Ahhh so wearing the hijab is part of the american culture?
> 
> You really should read what you post.. your above post is just stating exactly what we have been telling you...doesn´t matter what you wear here.. you are treated as easy meat



part of the american culture is that we have the freedom of religion..so yeah i can wear anything i like. and in america we have equal rights. 

when i first came to egypt i wore jeans and a long sleeved top no hijab...after a while i started to feel like this was not right. i wanted to blend in also. i started wearing the hijab and abaya and i couldnt belive the diff. of looks.. i felt like i actully was respected. not just looked at like a piece of meat.


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## MaidenScotland

layla13 said:


> part of the american culture is that we have the freedom of religion..so yeah i can wear anything i like. and in america we have equal rights.
> 
> when i first came to egypt i wore jeans and a long sleeved top no hijab...after a while i started to feel like this was not right. i wanted to blend in also. i started wearing the hijab and abaya and i couldnt belive the diff. of looks.. i felt like i actully was respected. not just looked at like a piece of meat.




As a women.. I am happy not to know the men that only respect women who wear the hijab and abaya... basically you are saying only muslim women who cover are respectable... tosh 

Aren´t you the lucky one who could practice your religion with complete freedom in America... pity you don´t think Egypt should be the same.


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## layla13

MaidenScotland said:


> As a women.. I am happy not to know the men that only respect women who wear the hijab and abaya... basically you are saying only muslim women who cover are respectable... tosh
> 
> Aren´t you the lucky one who could practice your religion with complete freedom in America... pity you don´t think Egypt should be the same.



you know you're really good at putting words in my mouth... are you a lawyer lol 

i think egypt should be how the ppl of egypt want it to be..which is a conservative country. so yeah in EGYPT .. women who cover up are MORE respected then women who dont... ask any egyptian. 

just because im free to practice my religion or any religion in my country does'nt mean its accepted by ppl freely... just by law.


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## NZCowboy

layla13 said:


> ..... Egyptian women, even those who wear the full hijab, are often subjected to sexual harassment, including cat calls. You may find that completely covering up does not make a huge difference, with regards to harassment, versus wearing a top with shorter sleeves. ..........


lol ... layla ... you just shot yourself in the foot .... all these "****s" in full hijab!!!


Is it "Egyptian culture" you talking the about the "Arab culture" that has been forced upon the Egpytians in the last 30 years??


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## MaidenScotland

NZCowboy said:


> lol ... layla ... you just shot yourself in the foot .... all these "****s" in full hijab!!!
> 
> 
> Is it "Egyptian culture" you talking the about the "Arab culture" that has been forced upon the Egpytians in the last 30 years??






If you watch the old black and white movies that were shot in Cairo in the 60s.... the place was full of ****s


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## MaidenScotland

layla13 said:


> you know you're really good at putting words in my mouth... are you a lawyer lol
> 
> i think egypt should be how the ppl of egypt want it to be..which is a conservative country. so yeah in EGYPT .. women who cover up are MORE respected then women who dont... ask any egyptian.
> 
> just because im free to practice my religion or any religion in my country does'nt mean its accepted by ppl freely... just by law.




How can you say one thing then post a contridiction to it in the same post???
You have shown that fully covered women are sexually harassed.

There is no law here that says you have to cover, strangely enough there is no law practiced that protects women from sexual abuse.. try reporting abuse here.


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## layla13

well any "****s" in full hijab atleast are hiding it. lol but its more then just clothes its how someone acts and where they go. how do you know they're are a **** if they cover up lol 

where are all these ****s in full hijab you think there is so many lol... the women i know that fully cover even their face are married or getting married. 





NZCowboy said:


> lol ... layla ... you just shot yourself in the foot .... all these "****s" in full hijab!!!
> 
> 
> Is it "Egyptian culture" you talking the about the "Arab culture" that has been forced upon the Egpytians in the last 30 years??


im talking Islamic culture.. egyptian or otherwise.


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## layla13

MaidenScotland said:


> How can you say one thing then post a contridiction to it in the same post???
> You have shown that fully covered women are sexually harassed.
> 
> There is no law here that says you have to cover, strangely enough there is no law practiced that protects women from sexual abuse.. try reporting abuse here.


actually ive known someone that reported domestic violence to the cops she was american he was egyptian and she had to sign a paper for them to release him or they would put him in jail for it. in cairo. 


no there is no law... its the culture.. and you know everything is not black or white.. there are always exceptions to everything.. some people just like to harass people!

if there is a woman walking in a short skirt and heels and a woman wearing an abaya and hijab... who are the men gonna give attention to? seriously.


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## MaidenScotland

layla13 said:


> well any "****s" in full hijab atleast are hiding it. lol but its more then just clothes its how someone acts and where they go. how do you know they're are a **** if they cover up lol
> 
> where are all these ****s in full hijab you think there is so many lol... the women i know that fully cover even their face are married or getting married.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> im talking Islamic culture.. egyptian or otherwise.



How do you know they are women?


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## DeadGuy

layla13 said:


> part of the american culture is that we have the freedom of religion..so yeah i can wear anything i like. and in america we have equal rights.
> 
> when i first came to egypt i wore jeans and a long sleeved top no hijab...after a while i started to feel like this was not right. i wanted to blend in also. i started wearing the hijab and abaya and i couldnt belive the diff. of looks.. i felt like i actully was respected. not just looked at like a piece of meat.


Or in other words, when you first came to Egypt you were a ****.........But then you were led to the righteous path of Alla and started "covering up".......But still, you got harassed.......Or I'm missing something in here? 



layla13 said:


> you know you're really good at putting words in my mouth... are you a lawyer lol
> 
> i think egypt should be how the ppl of egypt want it to be..which is a conservative country. so yeah in EGYPT .. women who cover up are MORE respected then women who dont... *ask any egyptian*.
> 
> just because im free to practice my religion or any religion in my country does'nt mean its accepted by ppl freely... just by law.



Well guess what I am an Egyptian 

Women who cover up are more respected then those who don't? Great, so let's enforce the Hijab..........

Really? I thought you just said that you were also harassed wearing a Hijab........Or may be I'm missing the meaning of "MORE respected" in here? 

Got 3 words for you: *GIVE ME A BREAK!*


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## DeadGuy

layla13 said:


> ................
> 
> if there is a woman walking in a short skirt and heels and a woman wearing an abaya and hijab... who are the men gonna give attention to? seriously.


Choice 3#? MIND THEIR OWN BUSINESS and leave others alone? Isn't that what Alla says anyway?! Or didn't He? 

Or is it a must to harass?


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## MaidenScotland

layla13 said:


> actually ive known someone that reported domestic violence to the cops she was american he was egyptian and she had to sign a paper for them to release him or they would put him in jail for it. in cairo.
> 
> 
> no there is no law... its the culture.. and you know everything is not black or white.. there are always exceptions to everything.. some people just like to harass people!
> 
> if there is a woman walking in a short skirt and heels and a woman wearing an abaya and hijab... who are the men gonna give attention to? seriously.





Seriously.... I think you should go and live in Saudi


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## SHendra

Whatever happend to the 'never judge a book by it's cover'. 

And even in islam people are not meant to judge. Nor 'check' out the opposite sex no matter what they are wearing.

It' can be rather amusing how some can mix culture up with religion where if you look into it a lot of the present culture does not match at all. And not every Egyptian is a Muslim. Not even those born into it! 

A woman should be allowed to wear as she pleases. Wether it is a bikini or a full out veil or even a nuns habit. It's already been proven that in this country it makes no difference of the clothes a woman wear. At one point in her life she will get harrassed by some sick twisted man who can not 'turn away' like he is suspose to do by his 'religion' OR otherwise.


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## NZCowboy

MaidenScotland said:


> If you watch the old black and white movies that were shot in Cairo in the 60s.... the place was full of ****s


Just finshed scanning and packing a couple of thousand old photos of the wifes family going back 80 odd years ago, of Cairo, Alex and the Delta, very few covered women, only notice them starting to appear in the more recent photo's last 20 years. 
Talking with the MIL who is 81 and other relations of that generation and the all say this covering is isn't Egyptian culture it's the Gulf Arab influence, in the last 20 to 30 years. They were ladies in those todays, and gentlemen respected them and the didn't need to be covered.


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## MaidenScotland

NZCowboy said:


> Just finshed scanning and packing a couple of thousand old photos of the wifes family going back 80 odd years ago, of Cairo, Alex and the Delta, very few covered women, only notice them starting to appear in the more recent photo's last 20 years.
> Talking with the MIL who is 81 and other relations of that generation and the all say this covering is isn't Egyptian culture it's the Gulf Arab influence, in the last 20 to 30 years. They were ladies in those todays, and gentlemen respected them and the didn't need to be covered.




A friend of mine says Cairo was the place to be in the 60s.. there was nothing to beat it.. I asked her what happend and she said They found religion.


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## Horus

MaidenScotland said:


> A friend of mine says Cairo was the place to be in the 60s.. there was nothing to be it.. I asked her what happend and she said They found religion.


This is true.

Maybe they should turn the mosques into nightclubs the acoustics would be awesome


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## aykalam

and play Bon Jovi's "Living on a Prayer" full blast :clap2:

now that would be worth waking up at 4:30am


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## Charlie's Angel

aykalam said:


> and play Bon Jovi's "Living on a Prayer" full blast :clap2:
> 
> now that would be worth waking up at 4:30am


Amen to that :rockon: followed by 'Keep the faith'


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