# Car buying fun and games



## Manitoba (Jun 25, 2014)

Have been looking for a nice used car, only real requirement is less than 300 000 p, reliable condition good AC and manual transmission. I’ll look at cars, vans, SUV’s small trucks anything that is cheap reliable transportation. Not too interested in something with 10 or so seats because my gf will want to fill it every weekend and go to the beach, I’ll be paying for meals, gas entrance fees etc of course. Weekdays I’ll be the taxi service for the family as well. Don’t mind helping out as necessary or in an emergency but do not want to be the local family taxi driver either

The used car market here is unlike at home. At home every city is ringed with several used car lots where you can walk in and get a wide selection to pick from. Even a small used car lot will have 15 to 30 vehicles and large ones will have hundreds. New car dealers will have a nice selection of 3 to 5 year old cars to pick from. There is also a large private market where you can buy from individuals through on line ads or Auto Trader types of magazines. This is of course a little riskier than the dealers but there are some bargains available there. 

Here not so much, so far I have only found a few very small dealers without much selection. Largest so far had abolut a dozen vehicles. New car dealers look at me like I am from Mars not Canada when I ask about used vehicles. For obvious reasons I do not want to take the risk of private deals here. 

So far have only looked at about 3 that were interesting. Two were Kia Sportages, one 2012 was asking 235 000 and it was a Korean import. It must have been a taxi or something because it had really rough use, linkage was shot, tires mostly bald (unless you believed the ad which stated good tires) and it had a fresh amateur paint job. I passed on that one.

Next up was another Sportage, 2006 for 150 000 p. Also had a hard life. Had electrical problems as well. If there is one thing that scares me about a used car it will be an electrical problem because you can spend a lot chasing the symptoms and fixing them but not fix the underlying cause. Blow an engine or transmission and just bolt in a new one and you are good to go, not so with electrical issues. Also speedometer was not working so I have no idea of how many miles on it.

Looked at a Nissan truck that was advertised as being a dealer but turned out to be a private sale. For a 1992 asking was 250 000 which puts it about 25% more than the same vehicle in mint shape would be worth in the USA. It was not in mint shape but was nice and clean. It had the TD 27 engine which you cannot kill even if you beat it with a large stick. It is one of the most reliable production engines made.

Agreed to a lower price, I pay transfer costs and returned next day with the cash. Was told come back tomorrow because of some unspecified reason. Left and told them that if they transferred the title, insurance etc at their cost and delivered vehicle today would honour the price but if I had to wait until Monday wanted another 10 000 p off for my trouble.

Just got a text saying I can have the vehicle tomorrow and get registration etc. on Monday or Tuesday. Think I’ll reply with lower Monday price and stating no money will change hands until registration etc. is transferred to my name by them.

This is going to be a long process and to think at the start I thought that getting sufficient cash on hand in country would be the major issue. That turned out to be easy part.


Stay tuned for future developments.....


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## George6020 (Apr 18, 2014)

Manitoba said:


> Have been looking for a nice used car, only real requirement is less than 300 000 p, reliable condition good AC and manual transmission. I’ll look at cars, vans, SUV’s small trucks anything that is cheap reliable transportation. Not too interested in something with 10 or so seats because my gf will want to fill it every weekend and go to the beach, I’ll be paying for meals, gas entrance fees etc of course. Weekdays I’ll be the taxi service for the family as well. Don’t mind helping out as necessary or in an emergency but do not want to be the local family taxi driver either
> 
> The used car market here is unlike at home. At home every city is ringed with several used car lots where you can walk in and get a wide selection to pick from. Even a small used car lot will have 15 to 30 vehicles and large ones will have hundreds. New car dealers will have a nice selection of 3 to 5 year old cars to pick from. There is also a large private market where you can buy from individuals through on line ads or Auto Trader types of magazines. This is of course a little riskier than the dealers but there are some bargains available there.
> 
> ...


If you plan to do mostly city driving, I was really pleased with the Honda Fit. It takes gasoline, automatic, easy to maneuver and park quickly, faster than those *<Snip>* taxis too............a late model should be around 300,000.


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## Manitoba (Jun 25, 2014)

George6020 said:


> If you plan to do mostly city driving, I was really pleased with the Honda Fit. It takes gasoline, automatic, easy to maneuver and park quickly, faster than those *<Snip>* taxis too............a late model should be around 300,000.


I have never bought an autonmatic transmission in over 40 years of car ownership.

I'm just a shifty sort of guy i guess.


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## 197649 (Jan 1, 2013)

Well here you go I bought a new Trailblazer paid it off in 6 months (yahoo) then it began. I got the Certificate of Registration back and The Official Receipt from the La Loma District Office. It says the color Blue Violet when the color is Red. Unfortunately now this issue is we cannot get the Car transferred into our name. So a battle with LTO has been going on now for 9 months to get the color changed. I won't go into the details as I do I will start hitting the keys harder and might break my keyboard.


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## Manitoba (Jun 25, 2014)

if you text LTO VEHICLE ABC123 to 2600 where ABC123 is the plate number you will get back a text showing some LTO info on the vehicle. It includes colour so you can check if the colour is correct on the books before making the purchase.

Why not tell the LTO that you painted it and changed colour instead of saying that their records are wrong?


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## 197649 (Jan 1, 2013)

Manitoba said:


> if you text LTO VEHICLE ABC123 to 2600 where ABC123 is the plate number you will get back a text showing some LTO info on the vehicle. It includes colour so you can check if the colour is correct on the books before making the purchase.
> 
> Why not tell the LTO that you painted it and changed colour instead of saying that their records are wrong?


Texting calling or going to the LTO don't matter. We had to file paperwork with them to change the color seems easy right (FAT CHANCE). Telling them I painted it doesn't matter since the paperwork says its blue. When we go to change the name from the bank to our name they of course look at the vehicle. I even thought about painting it blue as on the paperwork.


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## Manitoba (Jun 25, 2014)

c_acton98 said:


> .... I even thought about painting it blue as on the paperwork.



Use food colouring and hope it doesn't rain.:roll:


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## fmartin_gila (May 15, 2011)

Welcome to the Philippine methods and thought process. I also just purchased a vehicle, (Suzuki CarryVan). Nice small size caple of carrying a good sized load. Supposed to be ready for pickup on Tuesday, we will just have to see how that goes.

Fred


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## Manitoba (Jun 25, 2014)

fmartin_gila said:


> Welcome to the Philippine methods and thought process. I also just purchased a vehicle, (Suzuki CarryVan). Nice small size caple of carrying a good sized load. Supposed to be ready for pickup on Tuesday, we will just have to see how that goes.
> 
> Fred


Let us know how the transfer of title etc. goes. I am concerned about all that paperwork.


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## Manitoba (Jun 25, 2014)

Bought a Suzuki surplus multicab 4x4 5 speed with extended cap and a philipino paint scheme ( bright blue) from a dealer. It was totally rebuilt, new paint everything looks nice and tight and in good condition.

Of course since it if from a dealer they have the LTO dealings and have registered, transferred title etc. We will just have to wait and see how long and how much hassle that takes. Saleswoman said her uncle runs the local LTO so that should help.


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## Maxx62 (Dec 31, 2013)

Manitoba said:


> Agreed to a lower price, I pay transfer costs and returned next day with the cash. Was told come back tomorrow because of some unspecified reason. Left and told them that if they transferred the title, insurance etc at their cost and delivered vehicle today would honour the price but if I had to wait until Monday wanted another 10 000 p off for my trouble.
> 
> Stay tuned for future developments.....


I'm just wondering why they asked you to come back tomorrow, and they didn't want to sell the vehicle at the moment you had the cash in hand? I wonder if they are planning on doing some last minute swapping of battery, stereo, or tires? 

I know that this is slightly off topic, but one of my in-laws used to loan their Toyota van out to a neighbor once in a while. One time they borrowed it and kept it for three days, when they were only supposed to have it for a few hours. After the van came back, my sister-in-law asked me to take a look because the air-conditioner wasn't working any more. I took a look inside the engine compartment, and the first thing that I notice is that someone switched the ac compressor pump. The original pump was clean and without any grime or oil on it, and the pump that they put in there was completely bathed in oil, and it was dusty and dirty. Definitely not the same pump. After I looked around more I noticed that the battery had also been swapped, and for some reason someone had disconnected the tachometer. 

I know that this doesn't really involve buying a new car, but I would really give everything a close inspection after they've held onto it for a few days, after they already agreed to sell it.


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## fmartin_gila (May 15, 2011)

Picked up the Suzuki CarryVan Yesterday. Surprisingly it all went as planned. The dealer actually called me and said it was ready for pickup some hours earlier than he had first mentioned. To me, it seems as if they treat it like a house purchase, as I was given a Deed to the vehicle.

Fred


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## Jay L (Jul 13, 2014)

Manitoba said:


> Have been looking for a nice used car, only real requirement is less than 300 000 p, reliable condition good AC and manual transmission. I?ll look at cars, vans, SUV?s small trucks anything that is cheap reliable transportation. Not too interested in something with 10 or so seats because my gf will want to fill it every weekend and go to the beach, I?ll be paying for meals, gas entrance fees etc of course. Weekdays I?ll be the taxi service for the family as well. Don?t mind helping out as necessary or in an emergency but do not want to be the local family taxi driver .....


For a second hand car, i advise that you look for a toyota. I'm driving a 2005 vios for 9yrs now. It's reliable, easy and cheap to maintain. Parts are abundant. And drives frugally. If possible buy from first owners (those sellers who has their name on the car registration). Avoid second hand car dealers or buy & sell. As much as possible look for the lowest mileage possible. Dont forget to "buy the seller".


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## Manitoba (Jun 25, 2014)

This one is a classic.

I stopped by the dealership 2 weeks after purchase to make sure that everything was OK with the LTO registration transfer. (Car is newly imported to Philippines and so is a new registration here) 

Talked to the owner, who was on vacation when I bought the vehicle. It appears that the salesman took the 235 000 p I paid in cash and disappeared with it. Police are supposedly looking for salesman. 

I always knew someone would get ripped off in the car deal, just glad it was not me. (So far  )


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## Manitoba (Jun 25, 2014)

Time for an update.

Went to the dealership, 3 weeks plus after they told me it would be 2 weeks for registration to come through. 

Still no registration but they told me that it would be another week and that there was a new directive that cars would be impounded if not registered, no more "for registration tags" on a vehicle. I now cannot drive the vehicle that I paid for and paid the dealership for “express” registration. Express service that they failed to deliver.

They refused to do anything for me due to their failure to apply for the registration in a timely manner. While they said it was not my problem they continued to make it my problem because I now have a rather expensive driveway ornament.

Just total incompetence on the dealerships part and no honouring their word. Absolutely no attempt on their part to make it right for me because of their failures to live up to their contract.

The dealer owner is a Brit; I wonder if he is on a visa that allows him to work here? I wonder is he is allowed to own a business? 

Perhaps I may take steps to find out???


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## fmartin_gila (May 15, 2011)

I am still waiting for the Permanent License Plate for mine. At least the Dealer did get it registered and it does have a temporary plate number assigned so I can drive it. The Dealer did even take care of a couple problems on warranty so I am reasonably well pleased with them. Even though I should have learned by now about the efficiency of things here, it seems as if it's a long time to wait for a permanent license plate. 

I do see both cars and motorcycles driving around in this area with signs on them that they have applied for registration so maybe they don't enforce that policy all over.

Fred


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## simonsays (Feb 11, 2009)

Manitoba said:


> The dealer owner is a Brit; I wonder if he is on a visa that allows him to work here? I wonder is he is allowed to own a business?
> 
> Perhaps I may take steps to find out???


My post vanished .. in any case, I was wondering why you are so spiteful and doing what natives do to foreigners they have arguments with .. 

How would it feel if you were on the receiving end if somebody investigates your immigration status ?

Well, with the right connection, a few foreigners have discovered their own residency permit revoked, reason not provided.


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## M.C.A. (Feb 24, 2013)

*LTO is slow*



Manitoba said:


> Time for an update.
> 
> Went to the dealership, 3 weeks plus after they told me it would be 2 weeks for registration to come through.
> 
> ...


Recently there was a news special on cars imported here from Japan, second hand ones ect.. and the LTO is really behind in getting out those registration papers and if I' not mistaken they're not supposed to sell those cars but? They'll go bankrupt so there's some sort of compromise. LTO also ran out of drivers license so they're giving out paper copies, I have to wait months every year just to get my License plate tags. 

Things work very slowly here as expats it's hard to understand just how things work or don't work here, when ever I deal with any government agency or business I never expect things to work smoothly :smash: in any way but when they do it's a welcomed surprise. arty:


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## simonsays (Feb 11, 2009)

mcalleyboy said:


> Things work very slowly here as expats it's hard to understand just how things work or don't work here, when ever I deal with any government agency or business I never expect things to work smoothly :smash: in any way but when they do it's a welcomed surprise. arty:


If you don't have patience, your expected life span can be shortened, naturally or by force, in PH !!

Patience is the most important attribute you need, to live peacefully and happily !!!


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## Manitoba (Jun 25, 2014)

ecureilx said:


> My post vanished .. in any case, I was wondering why you are so spiteful and doing what natives do to foreigners they have arguments with ..
> 
> How would it feel if you were on the receiving end if somebody investigates your immigration status ?
> 
> Well, with the right connection, a few foreigners have discovered their own residency permit revoked, reason not provided.


The dealer has my money, I have an expensive driveway ornament due to his failure to follow through on our agreement. I won't do anything, I was just musing about his status.

Go ahead and investigate me all you want, I am always 100% in compliance with immigration laws ( at least as far as I know and understand them).

However even being 100% compliant will not help if connections are involved.


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## simonsays (Feb 11, 2009)

Manitoba said:


> .
> 
> Go ahead and investigate me all you want, I am always 100% in compliance with immigration laws ( at least as far as I know and understand them).
> 
> However even being 100% compliant will not help if connections are involved.


I am not interested in your immigration status nor do I intend to investigate anybody

Your wording sounds you will go an extra step to anybody who pisses you off

I just reminded you what you wrote as a possibility, is also the favourite solution by natives on foreigners who piss the locals.. 

And few expats have been bled dry when they were 'reported' and after being Bled dry still some have been deported.

Wishing such curse on a fellow Expat is wrong, in my opinion

Peace


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## Manitoba (Jun 25, 2014)

ecureilx said:


> .....
> 
> Wishing such curse on a fellow Expat is wrong, in my opinion
> 
> Peace


But it was right for him to screw around with me on getting the regestration?

Then not make it right by actually doing anything but acting like a local and saying not his problem?


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## cvgtpc1 (Jul 28, 2012)

Manitoba said:


> But it was right for him to screw around with me on getting the regestration?
> 
> Then not make it right by actually doing anything but acting like a local and saying not his problem?


I'm sure it'd be different if they showed you proof behind the delay but sounds like they're leaving you hanging in the breeze.

I'd look for creative ways to resolve this too.


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## Manitoba (Jun 25, 2014)

cvgtpc1 said:


> I'm sure it'd be different if they showed you proof behind the delay but sounds like they're leaving you hanging in the breeze.
> 
> I'd look for creative ways to resolve this too.


Their claim is that the cash I paid for the vehicle was stolen and that they did not have enough cash to process the registration in a timely manner.

They agree it was not my problem that the money was stolen, but continue to make it my problem by not doing anything except shrug about the impact on me.

Pretty poor busines that cannot generate only about 15 000 p cash or at least have an account with LTO to process these sorts of things, IMHO.


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## cvgtpc1 (Jul 28, 2012)

Manitoba said:


> Their claim is that the cash I paid for the vehicle was stolen and that they did not have enough cash to process the registration in a timely manner.
> 
> They agree it was not my problem that the money was stolen, but continue to make it my problem by not doing anything except shrug about the impact on me.
> 
> Pretty poor busines that cannot generate only about 15 000 p cash or at least have an account with LTO to process these sorts of things, IMHO.


The concept of having a repeat customer thru good customer service is lost on many, they don't understand they're better off doing that than going for a one time score.


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## Montemar (Jun 18, 2013)

Manitoba said:


> Their claim is that the cash I paid for the vehicle was stolen and that they did not have enough cash to process the registration in a timely manner.
> 
> They agree it was not my problem that the money was stolen, but continue to make it my problem by not doing anything except shrug about the impact on me.
> 
> Pretty poor busines that cannot generate only about 15 000 p cash or at least have an account with LTO to process these sorts of things, IMHO.


After reading this post should i purchase a car it will be paid for by bank cheque made out to the owners or dealership name much valued lesson.


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## M.C.A. (Feb 24, 2013)

*Get it on video, pictures.*



Montemar said:


> After reading this post should i purchase a car it will be paid for by bank cheque made out to the owners or dealership name much valued lesson.


Hand the money, check to the owner, film it, take pictures and get signatures all caught on camera. Sounds crazy but that's what an expat off of YouTube recommends, his name is Seantheresortrebel, if you take someone to court you need overwhelming evidence. :eyebrows:


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## Manitoba (Jun 25, 2014)

Montemar said:


> After reading this post should i purchase a car it will be paid for by bank cheque made out to the owners or dealership name much valued lesson.


I have not been here long enough nor filled out all the necesary paperwork (i.e. TIN) to be able to open a local bank account. I doubt if the dealership would have accepted a foriegn bank cheque.

The problem is not that I paid cash, even the dealership is not saying that my money was solen, they admit that it was their money that went walk about.

What the problem is is that the dealership promised to initiate an "express" registration process next business day. (We all know that "express" registration means that they will bribe the LTO officials. ) They did not do it for 10 days. The result is that I do not have my permanent registration and now due to the change in local policy regarding "for registration" tags cannot drive my vehicle.

I understand what happened and sympathise with the dealership's problem but want and expect that they will do something to make it right by me for their failure to honour their agreement with me.


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## Manitoba (Jun 25, 2014)

mcalleyboy said:


> .... if you take someone to court you need overwhelming evidence. :eyebrows:


Back home yes.

Here connections will trump evidence every time.

Unfortunately I realize that I am relatively powerless to do anything about it here. I am the new guy with no connections and he has been here for years with established connections, at least locally.

In a head to head contest I would lose.

However I have been in a country where the local population was practicing asymmetrical warfare against a larger more powerful opponent. The same principals can apply to a commercial dispute where the opponent is holding the trump connections. I am definitely* not* talking about violence here, just to be clear, but avoiding a frontal attack, maneuvering around the opponents strengths and letting attrition take its toll can also apply.


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## pagbati (Apr 9, 2014)

*Is it possible to involve a 3rd party/ adjudicator?*

Manitoba, I can understand your frustrations; it must be driving you up the wall. I’m not in the Philippines yet so I don’t profess to understand the mind set. However, you did mention that you were dealing with a ‘Brit’ and they at least understand the meaning of fair play, even though like all nationalities, some may not always lead by example.

Here’s a thought. Have you considered getting a 3rd party, preferably a friend, to contact this Brit whom you dealt with? I know it may sound unconventional but a 3rd party can often achieve better results as (a) they can get away with saying things that could be taken the wrong way coming from you and (b) they can keep emotions out of it. The 3rd party could explain that the dealership is (understandably) getting a bad name by being discussed around the Philippines by expats. No need to elaborate further. Just emphasise to the 3rd party that the message should be communicated to the dealer in a friendly as opposed to threatening manner.

The 3rd party’s aim would be to convince the dealership that for the sake of how many pesos ????, they could turn this matter around and avoid further negative publicity. I imagine your main aim is to get the Permanent License Plate and therefore the 3rd party would be pressing the dealer to do all within his power to expedite that by suggesting he utilises all his contacts and even pays an additional ‘backhander’ if necessary. The second aim of the 3rd party could be to get the dealer to lend you another ‘ready to drive’ vehicle in the interim period.

The dealer is not daft and must know that this is a real crap situation, both for you and the dealership. The 3rd party ‘adjudicators’ final aim would be to convince the dealer that they can turn the situation around or as the old saying goes, ‘Turn the lemon into lemonade’. By arranging either of the first two proposals, the dealership would be on their way to achieving that. The proposal could also be 'buttered up' by suggesting that you would view any solution most favourably and would be willing to pass on positive comments about how the dealer resolved the situation. Purely suggestions and I appreciate they’re quite simplistic, but anything’s worth a try. Just ignore the post if it doesn't make sense. Whatever you do, don't get angy.  Good luck!


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## Manitoba (Jun 25, 2014)

mabrouk said:


> ....
> Here’s a thought. Have you considered getting a 3rd party, preferably a friend, to contact this Brit whom you dealt with? .........


Actually the use of third parties is keeping in the Philippine/Asian tradition. It allows for no loss of face on either party.

However I am dealing with a Brit not an Asian so am not all that worried about face as I am sure he is not either.


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## pagbati (Apr 9, 2014)

*Negotiation is better than argument and resentment*



Manitoba said:


> Actually the use of third parties is keeping in the Philippine/Asian tradition. It allows for no loss of face on either party.
> 
> However I am dealing with a Brit not an Asian so am not all that worried about face as I am sure he is not either.



Manitoba, I think there’s more to this than saving face. From what I’ve read, there appears to be a certain level of intransigence in the situation. I’m not suggesting for a minute that you are at fault. But right now, there is disagreement and probably resentment on both sides. My suggestion is based purely on the concept of ‘getting the ball rolling again’.

By introducing a 3rd party, perhaps a negotiator rather than an adjudicator, both sides have a better chance of reaching an agreement. The negotiator would be aiming for a win-win outcome, which is usually the best result for all concerned. I'm looking for a way to help you resolve the situation.


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