# Puebla immigration lawyer; resources



## Mark1 (Jun 12, 2010)

Hi all, I'm an American; Poblana wife. We have a house in Puebla and expect to move there in a year or so. I need to start my immigration plan; and, given that it takes a long time to get anything done, it makes sense to start gathering information sooner rather than later.
I have a ton of detailed questions most of which turn on which visa type I should apply for: FM-2-Family; or, FM-2-Retiree. (Perhaps there are other alternatives I ought to consider). I believe that there are differences between these two visas with respect to:
1. - documentation of income requirements;
2. - privilege to be employed
3. - privilege to keep a foreign-plated car in Mexico
4. - probably others.
I think I need to find a good lawyer with considerable experience in the immigration area to advise me. 
Ideally, I'd like to find a good immigration lawyer in Puebla; next best alternative would probably be Mexico City. Can anybody pass along a recommendation?
Thanks
Mark


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## AlanMexicali (Jun 1, 2011)

Mark1 said:


> Hi all, I'm an American; Poblana wife. We have a house in Puebla and expect to move there in a year or so. I need to start my immigration plan; and, given that it takes a long time to get anything done, it makes sense to start gathering information sooner rather than later.
> I have a ton of detailed questions most of which turn on which visa type I should apply for: FM-2-Family; or, FM-2-Retiree. (Perhaps there are other alternatives I ought to consider). I believe that there are differences between these two visas with respect to:
> 1. - documentation of income requirements;
> 2. - privilege to be employed
> ...


If your wife is a Mexican National and you are legally married to her you can do it yourself and save the expense of a lawyer it is that straight forward. 

You can come into Mexico on a 180 day FMM tourist card. She can take you to your local INM office and apply for a Residente Temporal visa there with proof of your marriage and take other documents they will ask for when you get in under the "Vinculo Familiar" law.

They will want you to be on a Residente Temporal visa for 2 years before giving you a Residente Permanente visa but you could get a 4 year RT visa and keep your foreign plated vehicle for 4 years on a TIP.

Once you have your RT visa card you can pay more and get a "Permiso para Trabajar" but then your foreign plated car would have to be nationalized, if it qualifies, or be removed from Mexico. If you don´t need to work no need for the "Permiso."

Anyone can do it themselves that has basic to intermediate Spanish. 

The whole process should take about 3 weeks to 2 months depending on the location of the INM office.


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## maesonna (Jun 10, 2008)

Since you mention FM-2, let me just add that any advice you consult that uses the terms FM2 and FM3 will be out of date. The former FM3 and FM2 visas are now ‘temporary’ and ‘permanent’ resident visas, but not in a direct correspondence. When the immigration reform was implemented over the last couple years, the categories and requirements were reshuffled. Alan’s information in the above post is up to date.


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## Mark1 (Jun 12, 2010)

Thanks Alan for your quick reply.
I can easily see that I can make the application myself. My problem is mostly not being well-enough informed to choose the correct path among multiple alternatives. 
My papers are all in order; we have been lawfully married in the US with a Mexican consulate having legalized our US marriage certificate. So, one of my options is to apply as a family member. I believe that would give me the right-to-work, which might prove to be worthwhile for me in case I want to do a little consulting or something. However, it is my understanding that I would not enjoy the privilege of importing tax-free a car. Conversely, I could forego applying based upon my wife's citizenship. Instead, I could apply as a "pensioner". I understand that as a "pensioner" I would not have a right to work, but would keep the right to import a car duty free. 
Are my understandings correct as to the alternatives for work and car under these two alternative visa choices? I don't know so (I assumed) I wanted to ask a lawyer.
Another complication is supplying satisfactory documentation under one or the other of these two visas. I am of Social Security age, but I haven't applied and don't want to apply for a few more years. So, that is somewhat of a complication. Perhaps it can be overcome by showing investments; and these are in joint accounts or accounts in my wife's name alone. If I chose instead the family visa it's my understanding that I would have to show an income. How do I do that? I have income from my consulting practice in the US but I have no idea how that would be perceived as evidence of my likelihood of being able to remain gainfully employed while living in Mexico. Again, I thought an immigration lawyer would be able to answer my questions.
Most of what I have read on forums relates rather specifically to a particular individual's/couple's decision to pursue a particular course of action; i.e., a particular visa classification; and, it is based on that particular individual's/couple's income/pension/investments circumstances. I haven't been able to stitch together the multiple scenarios into a bigger picture that tells me to pursue one visa classification vs. the other.
I'm also surprised (thank you) for your information concerning a requirement for a Residente Temporal visa for a 2 year period. I had not heard of this before. You wrote "They will want you to be on a RT visa for 2 years before giving you a Residente Permanente visa . . . " I am not interested in what they "want"; instead, I'm interested in what they require. Apparently, I need to understand this 2-year Residente Temporal visa and what - if anything - it might mean to what I can/can't do while under this visa for 2 years.
I'd appreciate any referral to anyone who well understands the ins-and-outs of each of the Residente visa classifications. If that's not a lawyer, then I suppose that's fine; and, it doesn't much matter where the adviser might be located; anywhere in Mexico or anywhere in the US.


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## Mark1 (Jun 12, 2010)

And thank you too masonna. Yes, I'm aware that the FM-2/-3 designations are out-of-date and that the whole scheme was overhauled in the past couple of years. All the more important for me to get up-to-date information and advice as to the specifics requirements both in terms of the black-letter law/regulations and the actual practices.
I'm used to government requirements being relatively transparent and clear-cut in the US. Yet, I'm equally aware that government requirements in Mexico are opaque and there is no substitute for having guidance from someone who has current and active experience with a variety of cases. 
Regards
Mark


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## AlanMexicali (Jun 1, 2011)

You can read the Viniculo Familiar Law, as I have. They have requirements on the SEGOB INM website that have been published since Nov. 2012 and require you to be married to a Mexican National when applying and state you can apply for a Residente Permanente visa but in practice all INM offices will give you "only" a 2 year Residente Temporal first before giving you a Residente Permanente visa or you can get up to a 4 year Residente Temporal when applying with no "Permiso para Trabajar", no work permit, but as I stated for $3,000 pesos or slightly more you can apply for the add on work permit once your card is in hand and work but your foreign plated car will then have your TIP canceled.

You can apply for a Residente Permanente at you local Mexican Consulate without the "Vinculo Familiar" law and prove income of $2650 US per month from whatever source or sources that particular Mx. Consulate requires or an investment account or accounts of $105,000 US untouched for 12 months etc. but no TIP for your vehicle except for a short time to move your stuff into Mexico. some Consulates will only accept pension or SS deposits. Some consulate require you be 55 or over to apply for "Pensioner." 

Hiring a lawyer will be a waste of money unless he or she works in Mexico and knows what that INM office requires but INM offices are standardized now and your choices are not so great as you might think. The problem lies in the varied so called "rules" the different Mexican Consulates require now.

You state: "Yet, I'm equally aware that government requirements in Mexico are opaque and there is no substitute for having guidance from someone who has current and active experience with a variety of cases."


This is not true anymore inside Mexico. They are all on the same page now and as I stated earlier it is very simply to understand and very straight forward.


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## Mark1 (Jun 12, 2010)

Alan, thanks so much. Your last post made things clearer. 
You mention the 2-year RT for a Familiar-based visa; but, you didn't mention that 2-yr RT with the NON-Familiar-based visa. I could infer that the 2-Yr RT for a Faimiliar might be to regulate phony-marriages. (We've been married for 42 years; but, I don't think it's going to last another 42 years.) You mention no financial qualifications for the Familiar. If there are none, then the Familiar visa might have an advantage; provided, of course, that the RT is functionally-equivalent to a permanent visa in all respects. (I.e., that once you add the work-permit then they are functionally-equivalent other than tentative and dependent upon the marriage surviving the 2 years.) I take it that the Familir with-OUT a work-permit includes a foreign-car; but once you get the work-permit you lose the foreign-car. If I have the scheme straight here then it might make sense to do the Familiar/RT visa and then give-up-the-car/get-the-work-permit on the occasion that a work-opportunity arrises.
For the NON-Familir visa it looks like I'd have to see how my particular consulate wants to deal with my case. I'm 62 now, so age is no problem. Don't collect SS and don't want to until I'm about 65. I have the $105K; it's in a joint account. Looks like this might be somewhat discretionary depending on the consulate (notwithstanding "They are all on the same page now . . . ") If the RT is NOT functionally-equivalent to a Permanent visa then the NON-Familiar visa may have a potential advantage (dependent on whether the lesser-functionality of an RT turns out to be important to me. 
You seem to be confirming my impression that work-permission/foreign-car are mutually-exclusive. I pick one or the other; I can't really have both. 
The conclusion I'm coming to is that my next step might be to contact the consulate with jurisdiction over my existing State of residence. They should be able to size-up my employment history, assets, marriage history and whatever else they perceive as significant. They may be able to provide some information about the functional equivalence/or-difference between the RT vs. RP visas. And, then, advise me as to how quickly I could switch from RT-without-work-permit to RT-with-work-permit if-and-when I saw an opportunity to work. Likewise, how quickly I could switch from RT to RP if I should discover that the RT didn't let me do something (previously not identified) that I'd like to be able to do. 
Does this make sense? Or, can you suggest a preliminary fruitful step before approaching my consulate?
Thanks so much for your help.
Mark


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## AlanMexicali (Jun 1, 2011)

Mark1 said:


> Alan, thanks so much. Your last post made things clearer.
> You mention the 2-year RT for a Familiar-based visa; but, you didn't mention that 2-yr RT with the NON-Familiar-based visa. I could infer that the 2-Yr RT for a Faimiliar might be to regulate phony-marriages. (We've been married for 42 years; but, I don't think it's going to last another 42 years.) You mention no financial qualifications for the Familiar. If there are none, then the Familiar visa might have an advantage; provided, of course, that the RT is functionally-equivalent to a permanent visa in all respects. (I.e., that once you add the work-permit then they are functionally-equivalent other than tentative and dependent upon the marriage surviving the 2 years.) I take it that the Familir with-OUT a work-permit includes a foreign-car; but once you get the work-permit you lose the foreign-car. If I have the scheme straight here then it might make sense to do the Familiar/RT visa and then give-up-the-car/get-the-work-permit on the occasion that a work-opportunity arrises.
> For the NON-Familir visa it looks like I'd have to see how my particular consulate wants to deal with my case. I'm 62 now, so age is no problem. Don't collect SS and don't want to until I'm about 65. I have the $105K; it's in a joint account. Looks like this might be somewhat discretionary depending on the consulate (notwithstanding "They are all on the same page now . . . ") If the RT is NOT functionally-equivalent to a Permanent visa then the NON-Familiar visa may have a potential advantage (dependent on whether the lesser-functionality of an RT turns out to be important to me.
> You seem to be confirming my impression that work-permission/foreign-car are mutually-exclusive. I pick one or the other; I can't really have both.
> ...


That sums up things except Consulates are not on the same page at present and actually are not immigration experts just functionaries doing the job that they are told to do with immigration from their perspective offices.

The difference between RT and RP is not that far apart if you leave out expiration dates of RT visas and work permits. You still get full gov´t. medical, education and process of law benefits and can keep your TIP with a RT but cannot work or own a business etc. You can exit Mexico with no time out of the country limits with both. You can nationalize a vehicle with both. You can buy Mexican vehicles and get drivers licences and register vehicles with both. Also INAPAM discounts with both

Also it has been reported by many posters here and elsewhere that Consulates do not mention that you can get a 180 day FMM tourist card and apply at a local INM office for the "Vinculo Familiar" law once here. If you apply at a Consulate they may require additional documentation and only give you a 1 year RT as is common for first timers. Here they will give you the option of a RT for 1, 2 3, or 4 years.


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## AlanMexicali (Jun 1, 2011)

http://www.expatforum.com/expats/me...uired-income-clarification-6.html#post4047250

Check out RV´s post #54 and he has been here a long time. That whole thread has some interesting stuff you might like to read.


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## Mark1 (Jun 12, 2010)

Thanks again Alan,
I recognize that I could simply live in Mexico on tourist cards; or, get one tourist card and begin the formalities when I arrive in Mexico.  That these are easy things to do is obvious; but, there seems to be no advantage to doing so if there are probable advantages to achieving immigrant status. If I start the process now in the US then I can gather papers and make my case at leisure while still in the US. That's why I'm beginning to inquire into the process.
I had the impression from you that passing the hurdle of financial responsibility documentation could be done at the consulate. This seems advantageous for me. I can appear at the consulate, tell them my situation. Ask them what documentation they would accept; and, supply that documentation. I assume that, thereupon, I have then cleared that hurdle. I assume that during completion of the immigration process in Mexico that INM won't second-guess the financial responsibility documentation. Are these assumptions correct?
I take your point - thank you - that the consulates are not apt to be fully acquainted with the implications of being in Mexico under one visa type vs. another. They issue visas; they don't enforce the law while the visa holder is in Mexico. 
It looks like a reasonable bet that getting an RT is a plausible stepping-stone toward getting to the point of being an immigrant. So long as the RT seems to cover everything I need to do, I can mark time for 2 years. If, in 6 - 12 - 18 months, I discover that I need a PT (for something we might not be aware of now) I should be able to ALTER my status more quickly than the time necessary to establish that status from-scratch. If my consulate wants to give me only a 1 year RT I could ask for a 2-year; and, then, if refused, simply endure the effort of renewing for another year. Does this seem to make sense? (I.e., am I correct in assuming that a transition from RT to RP - should the need arise - be pretty swift?)
Thanks
Mark


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## AlanMexicali (Jun 1, 2011)

Mark1 said:


> Thanks again Alan,
> I recognize that I could simply live in Mexico on tourist cards; or, get one tourist card and begin the formalities when I arrive in Mexico. That these are easy things to do is obvious; but, there seems to be no advantage to doing so if there are probable advantages to achieving immigrant status. If I start the process now in the US then I can gather papers and make my case at leisure while still in the US. That's why I'm beginning to inquire into the process.
> I had the impression from you that passing the hurdle of financial responsibility documentation could be done at the consulate. This seems advantageous for me. I can appear at the consulate, tell them my situation. Ask them what documentation they would accept; and, supply that documentation. I assume that, thereupon, I have then cleared that hurdle. I assume that during completion of the immigration process in Mexico that INM won't second-guess the financial responsibility documentation. Are these assumptions correct?
> I take your point - thank you - that the consulates are not apt to be fully acquainted with the implications of being in Mexico under one visa type vs. another. They issue visas; they don't enforce the law while the visa holder is in Mexico.
> ...


To get immigration status you mean being a resident of Mexico on your terms both RT and RP visas give that right. One is not dependant on the other in this case.

Once you have a 1 year RT visa approval in your passport from a Consulate you may or may not get a RP visa inside Mexico without financials of $2650 per month deposits or $105,000 US investment account in your name. My guess is you will need these even though you came in on the "Vinculo Familiar" law you would be reapplying without it's benefit at that point. I haven´t heard of a first timer getting more than a 1 year RT at any Consulates when asking for more years. It might be possible with your application for "Vinculo Familiar" but haven´t read anywhere this has been tried.

Depending on where your local INM office is swift is irregular and sometimes slow is regular. Here in San Luis Potosí I got my RT changed to RT with a work permit in 10 days, exactly as they stated it would take. My buddy got his long time Inmigrado visa changed to RP in 3 weeks here. Here they do things swift and easy. They give you a phone # and tell you where your application is at and when to come to get your visa. Some INM offices are way behind in their way of processing applications it appears.

Renewing a RT is simply paying for another, more photos and fingerprints, no big deal.

With a preapproved 6 month visa in your passport from a Consulate I have never heard of any INM office asking for more documentation except on occasion an officailly translated copy of a birth certificate [you will need this to get a Numero de Seguro Social at the IMSS anyway once here] or marriage license. No financial documents.


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## AlanMexicali (Jun 1, 2011)

Adding a "Permiso para Trabajar" can be done anytime you have your RT visa card in hand and say if you had a 3 or 4 year RT visa the new visa card would expire on the same date as the original visa. I have a 2 year visa card. I am married to a Mexican National and never left Mexico and am a first timer.


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## Mark1 (Jun 12, 2010)

AlanMexicali said:


> Once you have a 1 year RT visa approval in your passport from a Consulate you may or may not get a RP visa inside Mexico without financials of $2650 per month deposits or $105,000 US investment account in your name. My guess is you will need these even though you came in on the "Vinculo Familiar" law you would be reapplying without it's benefit at that point.


Alan, this is fascinating. Though you are not certain (*. . . may or may not . . . ") I'll assume for the moment you are right. (Sounds logical that the new visa's applicable requirements should apply on a conversion from RT to RP). While I am in the US it's easy to show that I make $2650+; after I've moved to Mexico this is apt to be difficult. Maybe I'm worried about nothing; however, it seems safer to give my financial documentation to a consulate rather than give it to an INM office in Mexico. I'd rather not have any more information about my assets exist in files in Mexico than necessary. If any one of my concerns is valid then it may make sense to undergo the financial qualification in the US so it's done an over with from the outset. 
From the foregoing, it seems like applying for a Pensionado visa based upon my assets would be convenient. If and when an employment opportunity arose, I could at that time apply to convert to an Familiar visa (under an assumption that by that time I would have accumulated 2 year's time as an RP) or a visa NOT based upon either retirement or family. Granted, at that point, I would likely have to re-qualify financially. But, under the supposed circumstances, the re-qualification shouldn't be troublesome. With an anticipated remunerative activity I should be able to show that I will be making enough money to meet the financial qualifications. Is my reasoning correct here?
Thanks
Mark


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## AlanMexicali (Jun 1, 2011)

You can reapply for a RP at anytime with financials when in on a RT pensioner [retireer] visa [$1900 US deposits for 6 months or investment accounts of $105,000 US for 1 year], but I don´t think you will need financials more than once when renewing a RT and as you know a RP has no expiration date, so far. They will give you a preapproved 1 year RT at the Consulate for a first timer.

As far as swithching back from a RP to RT I don´t think you can do that without leaving the country and giving them your RP visa when exiting. It might even cause you to need a hearing at the INM office to apply for a RT under the "Vinculo Familiar" first, who knows.


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## Mark1 (Jun 12, 2010)

AlanMexicali said:


> You can reapply for a RP at anytime with financials when in on a RT pensioner [retireer] visa [$1900 US deposits for 6 months or investment accounts of $105,000 US for 1 year], but I don´t think you will need financials more than once when renewing a RT and as you know a RP has no expiration date, so far. They will give you a preapproved 1 year RT at the Consulate for a first timer.
> 
> As far as switching back from a RP to RT I don´t think you can do that without leaving the country and giving them your RP visa when exiting. It might even cause you to need a hearing at the INM office to apply for a RT under the "Vinculo Familiar" first, who knows.


Your answer seems to mis-understand my scenario. 
You seem to suggest that a good strategy would be to go for the RT, then if it became advantageous to convert to a RP, be prepared to show the financial resources. I see the convenience of this approach; but I don't like the prospect of DEFERRING the showing of financial resources.
If the triggering event (I need a RP) is coincident with employment then the employment prospect should satisfy the financial resources requirement. However, if NOT coincident with employment, then I would have to be prepared to satisfy the financial resources requirement. (Here, I'm contemplating the risk of some unknown activity that might require that I be an RP. E.g., suppose we don't know that to be a cantador en la calle I would have to be an RP. I discover my latent desire to pursue this activity after immigrating only to learn at that time that I need an RP - RT isn't good enough.) By that time, I would have been in Mexico without much/any income from my US consulting activities. So, I'd have to show $105,000 in investments in my own name, something I'd prefer to show at the consulate in the US rather than at an INM office in Mexico. If my thinking is at all valid, I should consider making my financial responsibility demonstration while still employed in the US, getting a RP (perhaps as a retiree, or independent of retiree/familiar status). Now, I would have RP promptly after crossing the boarder. I'm set for some unknown contingent activity (being a cantador). 
". . . swithching back from a RP to RT . . . " I never contemplated RP->RT. I ONLY contemplated RT->RP. You cast doubt on the RT->RP strategy by anticipating the demonstration of financial responsibility for that change of status. (Thanks).
I don't see any scenario where RP->RT makes sense. If I come as a retiree then I make my financial showing in the consulate in the US - probably by showing investments in my name of $105,000. That gives me RP status. If RP status suffices for everything I need then I have a foreign-car privilege and the RP status from the outset. If I need RP status PLUS work-permit then I can convert from retiree-RP -> RP-familiar/independent based on the prospective remuneration from the employment. 
Perhaps the retiree status requires a 2-year period in RT status; is this the case? If so, then it's no better than the familiar RT status. In such a case, both retiree and familiar require a 2-year period in RT status. Retiree WITH a foreign-car privilege; familiar with-OUT a foreign-car privilege. Should this be the case, then the only immediate path to RP status would be to apply independent of either familiar/retiree status and forego the foreign-car privilege from the outset. If you could please clarify the scenarios in this paragraph then I could know that my best track is to apply as a retiree, endure the 2-years in RT status. IF, during those 2 years, I should need either RP or work-permission, then attempt to change status (with a new financial resources showing and giving-up my foreign-car privilege.) Thanks,
Mark

I expected this to be a complicated decision-making process. I'm grateful that you are patient enough with me to help me to begin to understand the complexities.
Thanks
Mark


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## AlanMexicali (Jun 1, 2011)

You state incorrectly: " If RP status suffices for everything I need then I have a foreign-car privilege and the RP status from the outset."

No RP visa holder can own a foreign plated vehicle. You would loose this advantage with any RP visa or a RT visa with a work permit. Only a RT visa holder for 1 to 4 years can keep their TIP. [Temporary import permit]. You can work if you have a RT with a work permit or do whatever you could do with a RP. After 4 years on a RT you would need to get a RP or leave the country and apply again for another RT but who knows what they will be doing 4 years from now.


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## Mark1 (Jun 12, 2010)

AlanMexicali said:


> You state incorrectly: " If RP status suffices for everything I need then I have a foreign-car privilege and the RP status from the outset."
> 
> No RP visa holder can own a foreign plated vehicle. You would loose this advantage with any RP visa or a RT visa with a work permit. Only a RT visa holder for 1 to 4 years can keep their TIP. [Temporary import permit]. You can work if you have a RT with a work permit or do whatever you could do with a RP. After 4 years on a RT you would need to get a RP or leave the country and apply again for another RT but who knows what they will be doing 4 years from now.


OK, now I think I get it. Unless-and-until I find I really need an RP or a work-permit I'm probably best-off with an RT. That way, I keep the foreign-car privilege. Some day, I might discover some presently-unidentified need for an RP. More likely, I'll be presented with a worth-while opportunity to be employed. Thereupon, I can make a decision that the employment opportunity makes it worth-while to forego the foreign-car privilege. 

If so, then the familiar visa on the RT-track seems to make sense. I make my financial responsibility demonstration in the US and I get my familiar-RT visa. I renew as often as necessary. At the latest - the 4 year point - I make a decision to convert to RP or begin a new familiar-RT visa under then-prevailing rules. Does it seem that I'm on the right track now? I think that means that there is no apparent reason to apply for a retiree-status visa; no advantage to a retiree-status over a familiar status?

Assuming that is the case, now for the next round of questions. As an immigrant I understand I will have a right to bring my household goods duty free; but, I have to make the move within 1 year. 
Coincidently, I understand my Mexican wife has a right to bring her household goods duty free on the basis of being a repatriating citizen. I assume that her right is independent with my right. 
My assumption/hope of independence of manaje-de-casa privilege might be important due to the uncertainty of the precise date of our actual movement of goods. I think we will move in about 1 year (but, sigh, I've been thinking this for a couple of years. My wife is a work-a-holic and keeps working in the US.) My hope is that if I got my RT in - say July 2014 - but we didn't actually move until - say October 2015 - that we would still be OK. Although MY manaje-privledge would have EXPIRED, HER manaje-privlidge would continue to serve as a back-up. That is, I would have my RT status without living much in Mexico for 16 months. She would repatriate including my tools-books-toys as-if they were part of HER manaje. Does this work as I imagine?
Perhaps it does NOT work as I imagine. Maybe as a couple we share a single manaje-privledge. Once I cross the boarder under an RT visa, the 1-year clock starts ticking. I've got to get the truck loaded and across the boarder within 1 year. 
Can you shed any light on how his/hers manje-privledge works?
Thanks so much for your help.
Mark


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## AlanMexicali (Jun 1, 2011)

Mark1 said:


> OK, now I think I get it. Unless-and-until I find I really need an RP or a work-permit I'm probably best-off with an RT. That way, I keep the foreign-car privilege. Some day, I might discover some presently-unidentified need for an RP. More likely, I'll be presented with a worth-while opportunity to be employed. Thereupon, I can make a decision that the employment opportunity makes it worth-while to forego the foreign-car privilege.
> 
> If so, then the familiar visa on the RT-track seems to make sense. I make my financial responsibility demonstration in the US and I get my familiar-RT visa. I renew as often as necessary. At the latest - the 4 year point - I make a decision to convert to RP or begin a new familiar-RT visa under then-prevailing rules. Does it seem that I'm on the right track now? I think that means that there is no apparent reason to apply for a retiree-status visa; no advantage to a retiree-status over a familiar status?
> 
> ...


Under the Vinculo Familiar law to get a RT visa you do not need to meet the financial requirements that non family do, the $1950.00 US monthly deposits for 6 months or 1 year or the $105,000 investment accounts balance for 1 year but show any amount of monthly income to pay bills once in Mexico. 

If you get a preapproved 6 month RT visa in your passport at a Consulate they usually will give you the manaje then, I asume, if you request one. Then you have 6 months to enter Mexico, get your passport stamped upon entering and get a 30 day FMM card with the "canje" section filled out and probably a 30 day TIP but a couple of posters have gotten a longer TIP [I think they were lucky].

Then you take your passport and FMM to the local INM office and they tell you what to do from there on in, no problem as they are well seasoned by now on the process. Many INM offices get you your visa card in about 1 month after you first submit the visa, copies you need with original documents for them to look at if requested, might not as the Consulate does this also, of your apostilled marrigae license, birth certificate etc., fill out the forms and give them photos and fingerprints and pay at any bank. They might request offical translations of these at some INM offices, mine didn´t of my birth certificate and the marriage license was from here in Spanish.

I don´t remember how long the manje is good for or if your´s and her´s are independant but could look it out later.


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## Mark1 (Jun 12, 2010)

AlanMexicali said:


> Under the Vinculo Familiar law to get a RT visa you do not need to meet the financial requirements that non family do, . . . but show any amount of monthly income to pay bills once in Mexico.
> 
> If you get a preapproved 6 month RT visa in your passport at a Consulate they usually will give you the manaje then, I asume, if you request one. Then you have 6 months to enter Mexico, get your passport stamped upon entering and get a 30 day FMM card with the "canje" section filled out and probably a 30 day TIP but a couple of posters have gotten a longer TIP [I think they were lucky].
> 
> ...


 OK, so the familiar visa should present little/no issue on financial responsibility demonstration. I won't be driving to Mexico at the start of the visa process; only at the point of abandoning my primary residence in the US. So, I think I can ignore the car issues for the time being. 
Sounds like I might be confined to Mexico for a month or so while INM is processing my paperwork upon my initial arrival with my familiar visa. So, on this trip, I should plan on being free to stay in Mexico for 3 - 5 weeks while INM has my papers and I'm sort-of-paperless. 
Once INM gives me my RT status then I'm a resident. So, I'm free to return to the US and travel back-and-forth to Mexico as I like. While in US, begging and pleading with my wife to abandon her work-a-holic lifestyle.
Seems like the only remaining question is about any possible inter-relationship between my manaje-privledge vs. my wife's manaje-privlidge. My expectation is that I'll either get her to pack-our-stuff and move before/after my manage-privledge expires. If:
- before, then we can move our stuff under my manaje-privledge (reserving her manaje-privledge for some contingent additional shipment in years-to-come).
- after, then my privilege has expired and we will have to rely on her privilege as a repatriating citizen. 
This has been a very informative discussion. I very much appreciate your help.
Mark


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## AlanMexicali (Jun 1, 2011)

Mark1 said:


> OK, so the familiar visa should present little/no issue on financial responsibility demonstration. I won't be driving to Mexico at the start of the visa process; only at the point of abandoning my primary residence in the US. So, I think I can ignore the car issues for the time being.
> Sounds like I might be confined to Mexico for a month or so while INM is processing my paperwork upon my initial arrival with my familiar visa. So, on this trip, I should plan on being free to stay in Mexico for 3 - 5 weeks while INM has my papers and I'm sort-of-paperless.
> Once INM gives me my RT status then I'm a resident. So, I'm free to return to the US and travel back-and-forth to Mexico as I like. While in US, begging and pleading with my wife to abandon her work-a-holic lifestyle.
> Seems like the only remaining question is about any possible inter-relationship between my manaje-privledge vs. my wife's manaje-privlidge. My expectation is that I'll either get her to pack-our-stuff and move before/after my manage-privledge expires. If:
> ...


Or you could get apostilled copies of your birth certificate and marriage license and you both fly down and you on a 180 day FMM tourist permit and go into the local INM office and start there and ask them how long it will take. Hopefully they will be honest with you. Just print 6 months of your bank statements to show them if they ask. You will need a CFE bill less than 90 days old or a Telmex bill in one of your names etc..

It is really very straight forward and easy to do. First they will give a form letter with what they want you to bring back circled and you can come back right away with that stuff to get the application started. They give you a form at that point to take to a bank for the proceesing fee about $1050.00 pesos. They then send it to the "Licenciado" in the building and he approves it or asks for more stuff. Each step is fast at most INM offices. After he approves the documentation they ask for the second payment for 1 to 4 years RT visa and you go to any bank and come back with the reciept, they give the filled out form to take to a bank. Then at that time they take the photos you have and fingerprint you and you wait for your visa card.

They give you a form with your NUT [Numero único de tramite] and password to keep as they take your FMM card and you can check on line the status of your "tramite" and use this letter as a tempory INM document to be in Mexico.

I probably have the form letter on my computer or can find it on line at the SEGOB INM website or if not I can type it out as I have it in my files.


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## Mark1 (Jun 12, 2010)

Are you saying that there is nothing that the consulate does that makes the process go any more smoothly? I hope that is not the case. I hope that I can use the consulate to identify any omissions in my documents or unsatisfactory aspects in my financial documents so as to improve the likelihood of completing the Mexico leg of the process first time through.
I imagine - perhaps I'm mistaken - that by going to the consulate they will tell me that they have accepted each document as meeting the qualifications; or not. I can at my leisure go to the consulate (about an hour away) and submit my documents. They can tell me I'm missing something; which I can at my leisure go get and bring back. I should be able to do this in 2 or 3 trips to the consulate if everything goes as BADLY as I'm capable of screwing-it-up. I would rather make an unnecessary trip once to the consulate and be sure I have my papers in-order before going to Mexico and completing the process.
Yet, the advice you are giving me suggests that there may be no benefit to going to the consulate. Perhaps there are really no papers the consulate would examine and determine are satisfactory. Perhaps the consulate would approve a paper but the INM office in Mexico could still find some fault with it; i.e., the acceptance by the consulate is nearly meaningless. 
Also, you now introduce the prospect of my wife going with me to Mexico. If she must appear to sign something before the Mexican officials then it's better to do that in the US vs. Mexico. She can more easily and cheaply go to the consulate in the US then she can fly to Mexico with me. If she must also fly to Mexico and appear with me at the INM office it is especially important that the risks of missing a document or not having a document in proper order be reduced. 
I can imagine that it might be the case that a trip to the consulate is probably a waste of time; but, if they did spot an error/omission, it would prove worth-while. Or, going to the consulate is guaranteed to be a waste of time in every possible scenario. Or, going to the consulate is moderately helpful, but usually unnecessary. Which is the assessment you are offering me?


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## AlanMexicali (Jun 1, 2011)

Mark1 said:


> Are you saying that there is nothing that the consulate does that makes the process go any more smoothly? I hope that is not the case. I hope that I can use the consulate to identify any omissions in my documents or unsatisfactory aspects in my financial documents so as to improve the likelihood of completing the Mexico leg of the process first time through.
> I imagine - perhaps I'm mistaken - that by going to the consulate they will tell me that they have accepted each document as meeting the qualifications; or not. I can at my leisure go to the consulate (about an hour away) and submit my documents. They can tell me I'm missing something; which I can at my leisure go get and bring back. I should be able to do this in 2 or 3 trips to the consulate if everything goes as BADLY as I'm capable of screwing-it-up. I would rather make an unnecessary trip once to the consulate and be sure I have my papers in-order before going to Mexico and completing the process.
> Yet, the advice you are giving me suggests that there may be no benefit to going to the consulate. Perhaps there are really no papers the consulate would examine and determine are satisfactory. Perhaps the consulate would approve a paper but the INM office in Mexico could still find some fault with it; i.e., the acceptance by the consulate is nearly meaningless.
> Also, you now introduce the prospect of my wife going with me to Mexico. If she must appear to sign something before the Mexican officials then it's better to do that in the US vs. Mexico. She can more easily and cheaply go to the consulate in the US then she can fly to Mexico with me. If she must also fly to Mexico and appear with me at the INM office it is especially important that the risks of missing a document or not having a document in proper order be reduced.
> I can imagine that it might be the case that a trip to the consulate is probably a waste of time; but, if they did spot an error/omission, it would prove worth-while. Or, going to the consulate is guaranteed to be a waste of time in every possible scenario. Or, going to the consulate is moderately helpful, but usually unnecessary. Which is the assessment you are offering me?


The only reason I suggested flying down with your wife was because the inconsistencies the different Consulates have. Technically you and your wife should be living in Mexico. If she is still living and working in the US your Consulate may decide your application for "Vinculo Familiar" is not the route they are willing to go with you if they suspect you have no intention of residing in Mexico. If you are in Mexico and apply I would see no problem.

If the Consulate gives you a preapproved 6 month visa in your passport then they have approved you and the local INM office only needs to complete the visa once you arrive there. They will no longer need to ask you for documents.

A trip to your Consulate will give you all the info. they require of you and your wife.

Being up front with them will get you to the point you need to be whether they issue you a RT or RP with financials required or issue you a RT under the "Vinculo Familiar" law with no financials required. 

As far as you getting a preapproved 6 month RT vísa in your passport under the "Vinculo Familiar" law from your Consulate and showing up at the local INM office alone I imagine that would be no problem.


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## AlanMexicali (Jun 1, 2011)

Also I have read that all first timers when getting a Retiree RT vísa in their passports from Consulates only get a 1 year RT and have the problem of renewing it for another 1 to 3 years at their local INM office in 1 year. For "Vinculo Familiar" they seem to be doing the same thing at Consulates as with Retirees, 1 year.

Whether once at your INM office they will take the preapproved 6 month visa in your passport and allow you to add more years at that time with no problem is something I have never read about anyone asking for but it might be possible.

It might even be possible Consulates have changed their policies again and will give you the option of 1 to 4 years now. From Nov. 9th 2012 until March 15th 2013 they were giving the option of 1 to 4 year RT 6 month visas in passports and then changed it to 1 year only. 

If you did a tramite from a 180 day FMM tourist card at your local INM office under the "Vinculo Familiar" law they will give you the option of getting your RT for 1 to 4 years. This is only possibe under the "Vinculo Familiar" law as all first timers have to apply at Consulates, only in your situation can you apply as a first timer inside Mexico and without financials. 

Bonuses all three in my opinión. Fast, easy and straight forward. All INM offices are consistant in the proceedures and ask only for what they require to do the proceesing.


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## Mark1 (Jun 12, 2010)

Thanks very much. Sounds like there is uncertainty depending upon how my consulate decides to handle my case. They MIGHT make things easier for me by giving me a 4 or 3 or 2 Yr RT, allowing my wife to perform her part without the trip to Mexico. Conversely, they are somewhat more likely to give me only a 1 year RT and have uncertainty about our being in the US. 
I wonder if it would make sense to start the process at the Consulate. At worst, they would give me a dry-run in telling me which documents I might be missing or not have in satisfactory order. At best, they would tell me they would give me a 4 or 3 or 2 year RT. Getting a 1 year RT and having to renew it in a year wouldn't be bad either. If they say they won't give me the visa at all or otherwise impose some arbitrary constraint on me then I could abort the application process at the consulate. At least I would have gotten some assurance that I had some/all the paperwork in order. Then, my wife and I could fly to Mexico and initiate the process at INM. Does this seem the best approach (given that its easier to make a trip or two to the consulate than for both of us to fly to Mexico only to discover I'm missing some document?
Thanks
Mark


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## AlanMexicali (Jun 1, 2011)

Mark1 said:


> Thanks very much. Sounds like there is uncertainty depending upon how my consulate decides to handle my case. They MIGHT make things easier for me by giving me a 4 or 3 or 2 Yr RT, allowing my wife to perform her part without the trip to Mexico. Conversely, they are somewhat more likely to give me only a 1 year RT and have uncertainty about our being in the US.
> I wonder if it would make sense to start the process at the Consulate. At worst, they would give me a dry-run in telling me which documents I might be missing or not have in satisfactory order. At best, they would tell me they would give me a 4 or 3 or 2 year RT. Getting a 1 year RT and having to renew it in a year wouldn't be bad either. If they say they won't give me the visa at all or otherwise impose some arbitrary constraint on me then I could abort the application process at the consulate. At least I would have gotten some assurance that I had some/all the paperwork in order. Then, my wife and I could fly to Mexico and initiate the process at INM. Does this seem the best approach (given that its easier to make a trip or two to the consulate than for both of us to fly to Mexico only to discover I'm missing some document?
> Thanks
> Mark



Yes definately it is wise to go to your Consulate and be polite and enthusiastic about your future move to live in Mexico after your house is sold "soon" and give them a clear picture that you want a RT visa to have this tramited at your local INM office so you can finalize your details in the US and complete your retirement plans and move your household ítems later. I am sure they will do what they can to help you and your Mexican National wife accomplish your plans as Consulates main job is helping Mexican Nationals who are in the US either living or visiting.


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