# Accidental American... what now?



## jojo90 (Aug 16, 2016)

Hi,

I was born in the US to British parents, I left the US before 12 months old and only returned once for a 2 week holiday (on my UK passport).

My parents told me when I was 16 that I signed something that gave up my US citizenship and allowed me to have a UK passport. To this date I have no idea what it was that I signed. Research to date tells me that I'm still a US citizen until I visit an embassy at > 18 years old and follow the process for renunciation.

Some friends are planning a trip to Miami in October with a week in Cuba, after already booking my tickets I happened upon a notice that said if I was born in the US I either needed to travel on a US passport, or take with me a letter showing I'd renounced my citizenship.

This is when a whole can for worms has been opened   .

To date I've never been chase by the American government for tax or had FACTA letters. 

Reading up renunciation seemed like the best option, however that relies on 5 years worth of tax returns and a hefty fee. I have neither. Instead I've applied for a passport, hopefully that's not a dumb thing to do - for all I know that's a trigger and now I'll be hounded?


What I'd like advice on is what the hell do I do next... 

1) Cancel the trip and my appointment at the embassy on Thursday, hopefully just drop off the radar again.
2) Just get the passport and then start filing tax returns (I don't have a SSN).
3) Same as 2) but backfill the tax returns for 5 years.

In terms of my financial situation I'm pretty much in debt at the moment (slightly) and don't own my home. Income over the past 5 years is roughly:

2016 : £50k (salary)
2015 : £35k (salary)
2014 : £25k (sale of some shares, I was travelling Asia, not liable for UK Cap Gains tax).
2013 : £70-80k, £35k of that was redundancy, not taxed in UK. 
2012 : £55-60k

How bad is it.... ? What should I do .


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## Stevesolar (Dec 21, 2012)

Hi,
Out of interest - what place of birth is stated on your British passport?
Cheers
Steve


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## jojo90 (Aug 16, 2016)

Stevesolar said:


> Hi,
> Out of interest - what place of birth is stated on your British passport?
> Cheers
> Steve


NEW YORK. I visited New York in 2011 for 2 weeks, I don't think the regulations where in place then. My driving licence lists my place of birth as USA.


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## aurora.a (Oct 28, 2015)

I don't know much about this but I'll point out there's a foreign earned income exclusion which for most years you should fall under, so filing your tax returns shouldn't be too terrible if you decide to just get a passport. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Nononymous (Jul 12, 2011)

It's not bad at all.

First off, relax. The US government is not omniscient and omnipotent. The IRS does not know that you exist - presumably you don't have a Social Security Number. Other than a birth record, the US government know nothing about you, nor has any idea where you live. It sounds as though you wouldn't owe any tax so aren't really at any risk. 

Your parents were wrong, you are still a US citizen. 

You do technically need a US passport to enter the US, though it's not always necessary. I use my Canadian passport with US birthplace and have only been hassled once, but it might be quite different coming from London. (BoJo was once famously kept off a flight for this reason.) You would not be asked any tax questions by US immigration.

Because information-sharing within the US government is apparently quite poor, you'd be fairly safe applying for a US passport and taking the trip. There's no evidence that any information about you would be passed to the IRS, nor any evidence that they would take pains to contact you. (I am a dual citizen with no interest in filing US taxes. After my one spot of bother at the border I decided to renew my US passport, but did so from a temporary address while living in Europe so any mail sent my way would disappear into the void.)

In other words, it's perfectly reasonable to obtain the passport, take the trip, and continue on life without doing anything about your US taxes. You are off the radar and can easily stay that way. Except for one caveat: FATCA. 

Does your UK bank know that you are a US citizen? Do they have any information about a US birthplace? If your current bank doesn't know, don't tell them, and don't change banks! In the future you may find it difficult to open new accounts, or if you do need to state your place of birth then once you pass a certain balance threshold for certain account types your information would be reported to the US under FATCA. This doesn't mean you'd need to file taxes - so what, the US government knows your bank balance, that doesn't mean they're able to determine that you owe them money, and it very definitely doesn't mean they'd have any ability to collect it. 

The main point is, if you want to stay off the radar, which is a perfectly good strategy, keeping your banks unaware of your US citizenship is an important first step. They are the gatekeepers, if they don't release the information, the US knows nothing of your financial affairs.


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## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

The regulations haven't changed since 2011 - it has always been "illegal" to enter the US on any other passport if you're a US citizen. OTOH, this is rarely actually enforced. Worst case situation, you may be "sternly lectured" on entry IF the immigration officer notices your US birthplace. (And if he does, you just say - as you did here - that you moved out at the age of 12 months and thus had no reason to believe you still are a US citizen.) 

If there is time for you to get a US passport, you can avoid all this hassle. And no, the people at immigration have no way of knowing if you've filed US tax returns, nor whether or not you should have done. (There are LOTS of legitimate reasons you may not have filed from overseas.) Check with the Consulate for how to apply for a passport - and usually they'll tell you what to put for your social security number if you don't have one. (Lots of people have US passports but don't have US social security numbers.) If you don't have time to apply for a US passport, just use your UK one and look surprised if anyone questions it. 

If your bank hasn't hassled you yet over a W-9 form, just let it ride. The form is basically to cover their butts and it not submitted to the IRS. Depending on how much you have in your UK accounts, they may or may not submit information to the IRS about your accounts - but that also depends on how far they are going to "discover" potential US citizens in their midst. (The bilateral agreements don't require a whole lot of effort, at least not for "normal" accounts.)

When and if it becomes critical, you'll hear from either your bank or the IRS or someone in the chain of command telling you what you need to do. But until then I'd just get on with life as you know it.
Cheers,
Bev


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## Nononymous (Jul 12, 2011)

There is some suggestion that US immigration is a bit more vigilant about US passports now. During my one incident I was told it had to do with the "Western Hemisphere Travel Initiative" or something. (If I recall correctly, Boris Johnson was actually kept off a plane by the airline, which didn't want to pay to fly him back to London, which seems excessive but then he'd probably annoyed them during check-in.) 

Anyway, you'd probably be fine just traveling on your UK passport, and if you did get a US passport you'd also likely never hear from the IRS. But start paying attention to your bank, and be prepared for future questions about US citizenship - you can decide how you want to answer. (I've lied to my bank about it and I'm still not in jail). 

I haven't followed the story but I assume it's no longer a problem for US citizens to visit Cuba?


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## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

As far as visiting Cuba is concerned, this is the ideal situation for having two passports. Use the US one for entering and leaving the US, and the UK passport for entering and leaving Cuba. And checking around a bit, the restriction is actually on spending money in Cuba, not just going there - or so they say.
Cheers,
Bev


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## iota2014 (Jul 30, 2015)

jojo90 said:


> Hi,
> 
> I was born in the US to British parents, I left the US before 12 months old and only returned once for a 2 week holiday (on my UK passport).
> 
> ...


Hi jojo90 -

I was born in the US and lived here for donkey's years as a US citizen. I never found any advantage from having the two passports. If I had known about the US filing obligations, I would have renounced long ago. (Only learned about it last year, when I tried to open a new bank account and my US birthplace was spotted.)

It's a lot of money (though cheaper just now on account of the exchange rate). To me it was more than worth it, in order to be free and clear, and be able to conduct my financial affairs, invest money, open a bank account, etc, without having to consider what the US tax implications might be.

But if you think you might want to live and work in America, at some point, that would be a good reason to hang on to the citizenship. You can always renounce at some future point, though it's worth bearing in mind that the tax laws keep changing, and so far, not in a good way, from the point of view of a US citizen living in a country other than the US.

P.S. Perhaps this was what you signed when you were 16:

https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...er-child-under-18-as-british-citizen-form-mn1


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## jojo90 (Aug 16, 2016)

Firstly thank you to everyone for taking the time to reply, it's certainly starting to put my mind at rest. 

In terms of my future plans they don't currently include America, just simply because I have a life here in the UK that I'm happy with. I do see the benefits of dual citizenship but also the drawbacks as well. I may well branch into contracting in the near future and that just feels like it could be complex with the double taxation.

I'm going to go tomorrow & start the passport application. I'm tempted to leave it at that but also tempted to start doing things that I've found out I should, like getting a SSN & submitting returns. Hopefully as a simple salaried employee that shouldn't be too hard. 

My only fear is by getting the SSN and kicking off the process I'll start getting demands for returns from the past 5 years / since I was 18 + fines etc. I'm not sure if this is founded or if I can just quietly start filing from this year. That at least will give me options in 5 years to renounce when the time is right.

Is filing returns particularly difficult for a simple salaried employee?

Thanks again.


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## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

Getting an SSN as an adult can be a bit of a grind. I believe you'll at least have to put in an appearance at the Embassy in London, but I'm not entirely sure on that.

But no, simply getting an SSN won't lead to demands for tax filings. There are plenty of valid reasons why someone with a SSN would not be doing a tax filing - usually simply because you have insufficient income to be required to file. They also don't really bother people who may technically be required to file, but who are pretty clearly in the "$0 taxes due" category - like yourself if you're a simple salaried employee.

Take things one step at a time. Get your passport (does not require a SSN, just follow the instructions from the Embassy). Then, look into getting yourself an SSN if you think you need one. Once you've done that, you can look into the "Streamlined" procedure for getting right with the IRS - but there's no real rush on that. If you don't owe any taxes, there are no penalties for filing "late." (Or rather the penalties are a percentage of what you owe in back taxes, so any percentage of $0 is $0.) For the foreseeable future, the IRS is only really interested in making demands on folks who actually owe some back taxes.
Cheers,
Bev


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## iota2014 (Jul 30, 2015)

iota2014 said:


> It's a lot of money (though cheaper just now on account of the exchange rate).


Oops. I got that the wrong way round, not for the first time.

Renouncing is *more expensive* now on account of the post-Brexit exchange rate.


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