# visa for ireland



## fabzi_98 (Apr 20, 2010)

Hi guys just wondering if the process for a visa to ireland is a difficult one at all? Also can i use my visa from northern ireland to apply for the republic of ireland one too?

thnaks guys!


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

fabzi_98 said:


> Hi guys just wondering if the process for a visa to ireland is a difficult one at all? Also can i use my visa from northern ireland to apply for the republic of ireland one too?
> 
> thnaks guys!


What kind of a visa are you after? As Australian (?), you don't need a visa to visit Ireland - your passport will be stamped for 3 months on entry. If you want any other kind of visa, such as study or work, you need to apply to the nearest Irish embassy/consulate to where you live. How difficult it is depends on your personal circumstance. 
Ireland and the UK have separate visa regulations and a UK visa, valid for Northern Ireland, isn't recognised in the Republic, and vice versa. The special rule that exists between the two countries - common travel area - simply means that once you are examined for entry into one country, you don't have to go through another when going to the other country, but this is due to change later this year. But you still need to have relevant documentation. While there are currently no border controls between the two and passports aren't checked when crossing the land border, you need a separate Irish visa if you want to do anything other than just visit Ireland. Having a UK visa has no real bearing on applying for Irish visa - there are separate procedures. 
We can advise further if you can give us more details.


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## ofnofixedaddress (May 16, 2011)

Hello!

I am a little confused about the procedure for my entry into Ireland (short visit for a holiday).

I am an Indian national, married to an Italian national. I possess an Identity Card and 'Permesso di Soggiorno' (Residence Permit) issued by the Italian govt. and valid for living and working in Italy, as well as travel within the EU.
I am aware that a visit to the UK and Ireland entails application for a Visa. However, there also exists the EEA Family Permit, for which I would be eligible, as long as I am travelling with or to join my husband.

What is not clear yet after a lot of reading is - May I apply for the EEA Family Permit from a British Mission and use the same to travel to Ireland (Republic of)? Or do I need to apply for one from the Irish Mission as well?

Also, should I decide to go with a Tourist Visa instead of the Family Permit (on which I can also travel alone, should I so desire), do I have to apply for a separate Tourist Visa? While that was the case earlier, it is an article in Irish Times dot com of May 12 (seems I cannot post a URL until I have at least 4 posts) that now has me confused - It says that "MINISTER FOR Justice Alan Shatter has introduced a visa waiver scheme where visitors with a valid permit for the UK will not need a separate visa for Ireland."
However, I see no mention of this change (even if it is yet to be formally implemented) on any of the Irish Embassy pages.

Basically, I am looking for the quickest and simplest way to have valid travel documents for the UK and Ireland. The standard Tourist Visa (especially if separate ones) involves reams of paper and lots of time. 
I have no intention of settling there, so I was considering the EEA Family Permit only if it saves me time and energy 

Any insights, suggestions or commenst would be much appreciated 

Thanks ever so much!


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

ofnofixedaddress said:


> Hello!
> 
> I am a little confused about the procedure for my entry into Ireland (short visit for a holiday).
> 
> ...


First, you are not eligible for EEA Family Permit for UK or its equivalent in the Republic of Ireland for tourist visits - only if your Italian spouse is exercising Community right in both countries, such as working, studying or retiring. 
Secondly, your Italian PdS is only valid in Schengen countries, and neither UK nor Ireland is a member.
Thirdly, until the new Irish proposals are implemented (get confirmation from your Irish embassy/consulate), you as an Indian national need separate visa for UK and Ireland. Even though because of Common Travel Area, your passport may not be checked when crossing the land border between the North and the Republic, you still require an Irish visa and if you are caught (there are random checks), there will be consequences, such as being sent back to UK (if you have a visa) or to Italy. Same thing can happen if you cross from the Republic to the North and then travel on to the mainland without a valid UK visa.


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## ofnofixedaddress (May 16, 2011)

Joppa said:


> First, you are not eligible for EEA Family Permit for UK or its equivalent in the Republic of Ireland for tourist visits - only if your Italian spouse is exercising Community right in both countries, such as working, studying or retiring.
> Secondly, your Italian PdS is only valid in Schengen countries, and neither UK nor Ireland is a member.
> Thirdly, until the new Irish proposals are implemented (get confirmation from your Irish embassy/consulate), you as an Indian national need separate visa for UK and Ireland. Even though because of Common Travel Area, your passport may not be checked when crossing the land border between the North and the Republic, you still require an Irish visa and if you are caught (there are random checks), there will be consequences, such as being sent back to UK (if you have a visa) or to Italy. Same thing can happen if you cross from the Republic to the North and then travel on to the mainland without a valid UK visa.


Thank you very much, Joppa! I am a little disheartened to hear about the EEA Family Permit, though...it just seemed so much easier! Strangely, this is the first time I've heard that eligibility is only for those who live or work there...I've read many threads and many articles (incl. on Embassy websites) and it never mentions this exclusion.
I mentioned the Italian PdS because I read this on a 'Do I need a Visa' page on the Irish Embassy website - "non-nationals who are family members of a European Union citizen and holders of a document called "Residence card of a family member of a Union citizen" as referred to in Articles 5 (2)[1] and 10 (1)[2] of Directive 2004/38/EC of the European Parliament and of the Council of 29 April 2004, are not subject to an Irish visa requirement." Unfortunately, I couldn't find any more details. Hence the confusion and the question on this forum.
Could you, by any chance, shed some light on that?

Thanks anyway for your answers - it's good to have a direct answer to questions...haven't succeeded in that in all my emails to the Embassies


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

ofnofixedaddress said:


> Thank you very much, Joppa! I am a little disheartened to hear about the EEA Family Permit, though...it just seemed so much easier! Strangely, this is the first time I've heard that eligibility is only for those who live or work there...I've read many threads and many articles (incl. on Embassy websites) and it never mentions this exclusion.
> I mentioned the Italian PdS because I read this on a 'Do I need a Visa' page on the Irish Embassy website - "non-nationals who are family members of a European Union citizen and holders of a document called "Residence card of a family member of a Union citizen" as referred to in Articles 5 (2)[1] and 10 (1)[2] of Directive 2004/38/EC of the European Parliament and of the Council of 29 April 2004, are not subject to an Irish visa requirement." Unfortunately, I couldn't find any more details. Hence the confusion and the question on this forum.
> Could you, by any chance, shed some light on that?
> 
> Thanks anyway for your answers - it's good to have a direct answer to questions...haven't succeeded in that in all my emails to the Embassies


You may be right about not needing an Irish tourist visa on the strength of your Italian PdS as an EEA family member. Do check directly with the embassy/consulate. But you still need a visa (entry clearance) for UK.
Yes, EEA Family Permit (for UK) is only for those whose spouse/partner etc will be exercising Community right. See EEA and Swiss nationals - visa application guide
While an EEA Family Permit can be used for just visiting UK, your Italian spouse must be living or going to live in UK as a qualified person - i.e. working, in self-employment, studying, retiring or being self-sufficient. Of course your spouse can say they are going to exercise Community right in UK, even if it's just for a tourist stay. But in that case they still need to give an addrss in UK where they intend to live. A hotel is hardly likely to convince the consulate.


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## ofnofixedaddress (May 16, 2011)

Joppa said:


> You may be right about not needing an Irish tourist visa on the strength of your Italian PdS as an EEA family member. Do check directly with the embassy/consulate. But you still need a visa (entry clearance) for UK.
> Yes, EEA Family Permit (for UK) is only for those whose spouse/partner etc will be exercising Community right.
> While an EEA Family Permit can be used for just visiting UK, your Italian spouse must be living or going to live in UK as a qualified person - i.e. working, in self-employment, studying, retiring or being self-sufficient. Of course your spouse can say they are going to exercise Community right in UK, even if it's just for a tourist stay. But in that case they still need to give an addrss in UK where they intend to live. A hotel is hardly likely to convince the consulate.


Right, so what you're saying is - once I have entry clearance (tourist Visa?) for the UK, I could get away (legally) with not having a separate Tourist Visa for Ireland on the strength of the PdS? 
That's sort of what I figured, apart from the EEA part, but needed confirmation 

Thanks for the heads-up about the EEA Permit. I would have risked landing up at Immigrations with the wrong documents! 

The problem is really having no one-point Info cell for these questions and clarifications. The Visa agency appointed by the Govt. just does not answer questions! Believe me, I've tried 

Thanks a million, Joppa, O Learned One


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## ofnofixedaddress (May 16, 2011)

Another quick question, if I may, Joppa - 
_"Of course your spouse can say they are going to exercise Community right in UK, even if it's just for a tourist stay. But in that case they still need to give an addrss in UK where they intend to live. A hotel is hardly likely to convince the consulate."_
- We have family and friends (both his and mine) in the U.K. So would a real address actually let this work? What would it mean for him to say he wants to exercise Community right in the UK, even if just for a tourist stay? 
And if this in theory is workable, then would the same Family Permit be valid to go on into Ireland?

Thanks yet again!


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## ofnofixedaddress (May 16, 2011)

- n.a. -


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

ofnofixedaddress said:


> Another quick question, if I may, Joppa -
> _"Of course your spouse can say they are going to exercise Community right in UK, even if it's just for a tourist stay. But in that case they still need to give an addrss in UK where they intend to live. A hotel is hardly likely to convince the consulate."_
> - We have family and friends (both his and mine) in the U.K. So would a real address actually let this work? What would it mean for him to say he wants to exercise Community right in the UK, even if just for a tourist stay?
> And if this in theory is workable, then would the same Family Permit be valid to go on into Ireland?
> ...


Read carefully the UKBA site on EEA Family Permit. Your husband needs to be a 'qualifying person', exercising Community rights by virtue of freedom of labour and movement. It's, in effect, doing the sort of things that non-EU nationals need a visa for, such as work, self-employment, study and retirement. Tourist visit doesn't count, as many non-EU nationals can do so without a visa (under 6 months). If the UKBA suspects your husband has no plan and intention to do any of the above, they may turn down your application. Being turned down for a visa makes any future applications more difficult. Eve if you manage to get your EEA Family Permit, border agent on arrival may become suspicious and your deceit may be exposed. You then risk having your permit cancelled and being sent back to Italy.

Getting a tourist visa for UK isn't too difficult, and fees are moderate (£76). Look at UKBA site at Visitors - visa application guide.

UK EEA Family Permit isn't valid for Ireland, who has separate visa rules for Indian nationals.


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## ofnofixedaddress (May 16, 2011)

Thanks again. 

'Deceit' was never part of the intention! - Finding the simplest and quickest LEGAL way was, and I was mighty confused after reading through reams and reams of stuff on the internet and getting no direct answers from the Embassies 
Had no idea about the EEA Permit's exclusions until now. (By the way, the Irish Embassy says, although not unambiguously, that the EEA Permit is valid...or perhaps they mean another one, issued by them)

Anyway, back to the good ol' Tourist Visa, then 

Thanks, Joppa!


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