# Bottled Gas & Cost of Gas



## xicoalc

Hi everyone... now I dont know if I am being a wolly here BUT.. moved to campo and bought a couple of those gas fires on wheels (Campingaz A20 to be precice). Now the manual says that on a 13kg bottle of gas you get 59 hours of use... does anyone know if this is on lowest or highest setting?

I have had it on full pelt for at least 5-10 hours a day for the last week and its still going strong and the bottle is still almost as heavy as when it was installed (certainly a dam sight heavier than the empty i have). How long do these things really go for on a bottle?

I am trying to weigh up whether it is cheaper for me to heat the house on these at 14€ a bottle or to use a 1kw bar heater at about 18c per kwh.

This may sound like a crazy thing to ask but in the last hosue we were on builders leccy so didnt worry too much about the bills and used toe elec to heat everything, but now i want to work out the most cost effective way. 

Im loving having gas... I can cook on a gas stove again which is great, and I have a gas hot water boiler too.. so much better than electric but with the little fires Im not sure whats best!

Thanks for your advice guys.


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## jojo

I dont really know how long a gas bottle lasts, but I love mine and use it more or less on its own to heat the house. This winter so far, we've used probably nearly two bottles - not bad eh!! We put the fire on one panel (occasionally two to start with) for a couple of hours every eveningish and in the mornings for half an hour or so??! and that keeps the sitting room warm. We do have halogen heaters in the bedrooms, which I think cost much more as our electicity bill so far has been approx 120€ a month (inc cooking, water, pool pump, halogen heaters..)



Jo xxx


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## xicoalc

jojo said:


> I dont really know how long a gas bottle lasts, but I love mine and use it more or less on its own to heat the house. This winter so far, we've used probably nearly two bottles - not bad eh!! We put the fire on one panel (occasionally two to start with) for a couple of hours every eveningish and in the mornings for half an hour or so??! and that keeps the sitting room warm. We do have halogen heaters in the bedrooms, which I think cost much more as our electicity bill so far has been approx 120€ a month (inc cooking, water, pool pump, halogen heaters..)
> 
> 
> 
> Jo xxx


Thanks,,, have to say the little gas fires are good.. and appear cheap.. i thought maybe i had a dodgy bottle that lasts forever!!! 

Something more cosey at night about a little flame flickering away compared to an electric heater jeje


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## jojo

steve_in_spain said:


> Thanks,,, have to say the little gas fires are good.. and appear cheap.. i thought maybe i had a dodgy bottle that lasts forever!!!
> 
> Something more cosey at night about a little flame flickering away compared to an electric heater jeje



Its cosy innit jaja, altho a roaring fire would be nicer - this is less work tho!!! We keep a full spare bottle outside and after a couple of weeks useage we seem to be waiting for it to run out and it just doesnt! 

Jo xxx


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## xicoalc

jojo said:


> Its cosy innit jaja, altho a roaring fire would be nicer - this is less work tho!!! We keep a full spare bottle outside and after a couple of weeks useage we seem to be waiting for it to run out and it just doesnt!
> 
> Jo xxx


The landlord here has been great (i wont list the things cos right now that would be rubbing it in) but he did say if I want a log fire, if I buy one he will arange for fitting at no cost to me... so i am tempted for next winter jeje


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## 90199

We used to have gas, but here you cannot get a bottle unless you return an empty and the person who came to inspect the house wouldn't authorise more than one bottle unless the rooms were ventilated with a 5 inch diameter hole at the top and bottom of the exterior walls.

Well our exterior walls are one metre thick in places and constructed of very hard volcanic rock, they are a bogger to drill or chisel through. Plus it was no fun being half way through a shower and the gas ran out. Then having to trail to the petrol station for a full bottle.

So we installed all electric which uses €1.60 worth per day, the man from the gas company still writes saying that we are due another inspection. 

I do miss the gas hob, far easier to cook on.

We are fortunate in that we rarely use heating, being rufty tufty Northern Folk we rarely feel the cold, I wonder what it would be like to be a Southern Woosie and permanently perished

Tin hat time methinks,

Hepa


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## xicoalc

Hepa said:


> We used to have gas, but here you cannot get a bottle unless you return an empty and the person who came to inspect the house wouldn't authorise more than one bottle unless the rooms were ventilated with a 5 inch diameter hole at the top and bottom of the exterior walls.
> 
> Well our exterior walls are one metre thick in places and constructed of very hard volcanic rock, they are a bogger to drill or chisel through. Plus it was no fun being half way through a shower and the gas ran out. Then having to trail to the petrol station for a full bottle.
> 
> So we installed all electric which uses €1.60 worth per day, the man from the gas company still writes saying that we are due another inspection.
> 
> I do miss the gas hob, far easier to cook on.
> 
> We are fortunate in that we rarely use heating, being rufty tufty Northern Folk we rarely feel the cold, I wonder what it would be like to be a Southern Woosie and permanently perished
> 
> Tin hat time methinks,
> 
> Hepa


You are right about the cooking... im not a big cook but I hated electric... turn the bloody thing down and it stays at full for ages!


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## gus-lopez

steve_in_spain said:


> Thanks,,, have to say the little gas fires are good.. and appear cheap.. i thought maybe i had a dodgy bottle that lasts forever!!!
> 
> Something more cosey at night about a little flame flickering away compared to an electric heater jeje


When I've used ours , on full heat , the bottle lasts just over a week. The fires aren't that cheap when you consider that they sell the same spanish makes in B&Q in the UK for £20 , on special deals, & they're 100€ here . Oh, the 59hrs consumption is for the highest setting & on the lowest the bottle lasts about 150hrs.


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## xicoalc

gus-lopez said:


> When I've used ours , on full heat , the bottle lasts just over a week. The fires aren't that cheap when you consider that they sell the same spanish makes in B&Q in the UK for £20 , on special deals, & they're 100€ here . Oh, the 59hrs consumption is for the highest setting & on the lowest the bottle lasts about 150hrs.


Thanks for clarifying that Gus. The manual jsut says 59 hours and i thought that would be lowest.. like a car... always says you get 50 to the gallon but thats if you coast downhill with the wind behind you! I just wondered if i got lucky or i am deluded... Even the manufacturers (both in england and in spain could not tell me the actual consumption only that its 59 hours but they didnt know at what setting)

You are right though, they are dear to buy here... because more demand i guess!

Thanks again!


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## jimenato

steve_in_spain said:


> Thanks,,, have to say the little gas fires are good.. and appear cheap.. i thought maybe i had a dodgy bottle that lasts forever!!!
> 
> Something more cosey at night about a little flame flickering away compared to an electric heater jeje


oo-err!! Don't use it in a bedroom - at least that's the instruction on ours


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## xicoalc

jimenato said:


> oo-err!! Don't use it in a bedroom - at least that's the instruction on ours


I used mine in the bathroom. shut it in the en suite to warm the room for 20 mins before a shower, when i got back it was off... book said that if the oxygen levels drop it cuts off... good i guess! I would haev thought though for short times its better to use this than electric in bathroom... i always worry abotu getting electrocuted as the power shoots through the steam... maybe i seen too many movies!


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## bob_bob

Please remember that burning gas like this produces a LOT of water, makes the air damp and therefore your rooms damp too. If your rooms are prone to mold think hard before using them. While you are warm a lot of water will be soaking into your walls, furniture and clothing. You will get the same with any of the hydro carbons such as paraffin and if you heavily vet the rooms you loose the heat 

You need a fire in a flue to cut this out really.


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## jojo

bob_bob said:


> Please remember that burning gas like this produces a LOT of water, makes the air damp and therefore your rooms damp too. If your rooms are prone to mold think hard before using them. While you are warm a lot of water will be soaking into your walls, furniture and clothing. You will get the same with any of the hydro carbons such as paraffin and if you heavily vet the rooms you loose the heat
> 
> You need a fire in a flue to cut this out really.


We seem to have been lucky and havent had any problems with damp or moisture in the air. But then we do have an open staircase in the sitting room

Jo xxx


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## Oldun

*Gaz*



gus-lopez said:


> When I've used ours , on full heat , the bottle lasts just over a week. The fires aren't that cheap when you consider that they sell the same spanish makes in B&Q in the UK for £20 , on special deals, & they're 100€ here . Oh, the 59hrs consumption is for the highest setting & on the lowest the bottle lasts about 150hrs.


I have checked B&Q site in the UK and can't find any mention of Gaz heating. Was this a one off? because I would be interested in getting one brought out to me in France. Also my wife and I are hoping to relocate to Spain and this form of heating would be very useful. It sounds quite cheap compared to electric. Would that assumption be correct.


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## xicoalc

Oldun said:


> l. It sounds quite cheap compared to electric. Would that assumption be correct.


Based on the 59 hours thing and what Gus told me yes and no.

A gas heater on full pelt gives 59 hours (approx) and a cylinder costs about 14 € do thats about 24c per hour. Based on having it on one bar at 150 hours that works out at 9c per hour which is better BUT i find that unless its a tiny room you need number 2 or 3.

Electricity according to Iberdrolas website is about 17c per unit + IVA so actually it is cheaper to run a 1kw electric heater for an hour than a gas fire.

Having said that... I guess if you compromise and run the gas on number 2 then its about 14c per hour so it is cheaper. I prefer to use the gas although the electricity is better in the bedroom me thinks!


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## baldilocks

Oldun said:


> I have checked B&Q site in the UK and can't find any mention of Gaz heating. Was this a one off? because I would be interested in getting one brought out to me in France. Also my wife and I are hoping to relocate to Spain and this form of heating would be very useful. It sounds quite cheap compared to electric. Would that assumption be correct.


Anything is cheap compared with electric here. We have a bottle in the outside storeroom that is connected to the instantaneous hot water heater and the gas stove and lasts about a month. We also have two wheelie gas heaters and when it is really cold in the lower ground floor, we use one quite a bit and a bottle lasts about 1½ - 2 weeks. The one we use in the lounge or kitchen is only used when we don't have the log-burner going.


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## gus-lopez

Oldun said:


> I have checked B&Q site in the UK and can't find any mention of Gaz heating. Was this a one off? because I would be interested in getting one brought out to me in France. Also my wife and I are hoping to relocate to Spain and this form of heating would be very useful. It sounds quite cheap compared to electric. Would that assumption be correct.


Yes it was a special a couple of months back. Trouble is you don't get 'specials' here. I personally consider using electric as a form of heating is inefficient & expensive. Using reverse -cycle A/C units for heating gives a very dry heat & really you need to put moisture back in to the room to be comfortable. We use log fires mostly & only tend to use the portable gas in the mornings, when the fire is not needed to be kept going during the day , like the last few weeks.


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## Alcalaina

We only pay €11.20 for our propane gas bottles and they are delivered to the house the same day.

In really cold weather when we have the estufa on all evening they last about a week to ten days. We have a big sitting room with an open staircase and the moisture rises to the laundry room at the top of the house, which does get mouldy, but I open the windows every morning for half an hour.

We also use it for cooking and hot water and they last about a month (six weeks in summer).


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## baldilocks

Oldun said:


> I have checked B&Q site in the UK and can't find any mention of Gaz heating. Was this a one off? because I would be interested in getting one brought out to me in France. Also my wife and I are hoping to relocate to Spain and this form of heating would be very useful. It sounds quite cheap compared to electric. Would that assumption be correct.


In UK you may have to go to a Calor gas agent since, (let's face it) the reduction in the price of a fire is usually only a 'come on' so that they can sell more gas.


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## baldilocks

Alcalaina said:


> We only pay €11.20 for our propane gas bottles and they are delivered to the house the same day.


You are lucky if you can get propane, we only get butane here and it is €13 + per bottle. Propane has the advantage that it will still continue to give a good pressure when temperatures fall below 5°C, it has the disadvantage that it is heavier than air so any leakages go down any floor mounted drains (instead of being dispersed in the open air) and can cause nasty bangs (Guadalajara 1992).


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## casa99

baldilocks said:


> You are lucky if you can get propane, we only get butane here and it is €13 + per bottle. Propane has the advantage that it will still continue to give a good pressure when temperatures fall below 5°C, it has the disadvantage that it is heavier than air so any leakages go down any floor mounted drains (instead of being dispersed in the open air) and can cause nasty bangs (Guadalajara 1992).


You can get portable gas heaters in u.k. for about £ 80, that includes a 15kg bottle, but the refills cost £26+ . You can buy the heaters for about £55 without gas and use them in spain although you need to get a spanish fitting for the butane bottle, we have done that with two of our gas heaters and they work perfectly well:ranger:

I wish the bottles of gas were only 13 euros in u.k.


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## Beachcomber

I have a 6600 watt gas powered stand-by generator which will run for about 24 hours on a bottle. I then put the same bottle on a gas heater and it will last for another couple of weeks or so.

However, the main heating in our lounge is an open log-burning fireplace. I wouldn't use a gas heater as the main source of heating.


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## gus-lopez

casa99 said:


> I wish the bottles of gas were only 13 euros in u.k.


Now you know how much the government subsidises the priceof the small bottles in Spain !
I'm surprised that Baldilocks can't get propane where he is. Even around here in the hills they carry propane & I can get it if I want although he doesn't carry it normally.


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## casa99

gus-lopez said:


> Now you know how much the government subsidises the priceof the small bottles in Spain !
> I'm surprised that Baldilocks can't get propane where he is. Even around here in the hills they carry propane & I can get it if I want although he doesn't carry it normally.


Gus are the propane ones better or cheaper than butano and do you need a different regulator as we could get them from the repsol garage at the top of the lane ?


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## Alcalaina

baldilocks said:


> You are lucky if you can get propane, we only get butane here and it is €13 + per bottle. Propane has the advantage that it will still continue to give a good pressure when temperatures fall below 5°C, it has the disadvantage that it is heavier than air so any leakages go down any floor mounted drains (instead of being dispersed in the open air) and can cause nasty bangs (Guadalajara 1992).


I believe propane gives off less water vapour? That´s why we use them, since it hardly never gets that cold here.

We have a contract with Repsol and they are very safety-conscious, Our appliances were fitted with fancy new regulators recently and we have to have our hoses replaced every five years. So no big bangs hopefully!


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## xicoalc

Alcalaina said:


> I believe propane gives off less water vapour? That´s why we use them, since it hardly never gets that cold here.
> 
> We have a contract with Repsol and they are very safety-conscious, Our appliances were fitted with fancy new regulators recently and we have to have our hoses replaced every five years. So no big bangs hopefully!


I had a couple at my last house and the garage made me sig a contract but it was very simple... at this house I simply took two empties to the petrol station and swapped them for new.. no papers or anything.

I was wondering about gas regs in Spain... my house has been recently completely knocked down and rebuilt... the landlord is a builder and he installed the oven and boiler etc. I don´t doubt his abilities at all, everything in the house has been done to a very high standard and there are vents in every room that has a gas appliance but im curious if Spain is like the UK where plumbers have to be CORGI registered to work on gas?

Similarily in the UK landlords have to have boilers, gas hobs etc checked and certified every year (I know this from my experience of letting property). One assumes that this doesnt happen in Spain.. I guess I will buy one of those carbon monoxide sensor things and if it goes off call the landlord!


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## Alcalaina

steve_in_spain said:


> I had a couple at my last house and the garage made me sig a contract but it was very simple... at this house I simply took two empties to the petrol station and swapped them for new.. no papers or anything.
> 
> I was wondering about gas regs in Spain... my house has been recently completely knocked down and rebuilt... the landlord is a builder and he installed the oven and boiler etc. I don´t doubt his abilities at all, everything in the house has been done to a very high standard and there are vents in every room that has a gas appliance but im curious if Spain is like the UK where plumbers have to be CORGI registered to work on gas?
> 
> Similarily in the UK landlords have to have boilers, gas hobs etc checked and certified every year (I know this from my experience of letting property). One assumes that this doesnt happen in Spain.. I guess I will buy one of those carbon monoxide sensor things and if it goes off call the landlord!


There are lots of safety regulations about gas etc in Spain, because many of these laws originated with the European Parliament. Of course not everyone sticks to them, just as in the UK people still do their own DIY electrical work.

There´s another gas thread on here somewhere talking about whether you are allowed to carry gas bottles loose in your car (I can´t remember the outcome but there are definitely some rules on this!)


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## xicoalc

Alcalaina said:


> There are lots of safety regulations about gas etc in Spain, because many of these laws originated with the European Parliament. Of course not everyone sticks to them, just as in the UK people still do their own DIY electrical work.
> 
> There´s another gas thread on here somewhere talking about whether you are allowed to carry gas bottles loose in your car (I can´t remember the outcome but there are definitely some rules on this!)


I will look that one up later Alcalaina ... will be interesting!

The landlord got a spark in to do the electrics, actually in the UK I am guilty of the leccy one... Im not a qualified electrician and wouldnt attempt to rewire a house or anything but when it comes to minor things I always did them without problems.

I remember once i bought a house from a developer brand new and on the day I got the keys I went through the entire house and changed the white sockets and switches for chrome only to be told that I would need an electricians safety report prior to being able to let it out because what I did was illegal... what is the world coming to!


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## bob_bob

A bit of fun. If you have a dehumidifier run it for a night when you don't use bottled gas then run it when you do, see how much extra water it collects.


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## jimenato

To put it into perspective, a gas fire produces slightly more water vapour than two people breathing.


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## bob_bob

jimenato said:


> To put it into perspective, a gas fire produces slightly more water vapour than two people breathing.


Depending on the amount of gas you use, its still several litres of water vapour a day you don't need in a damp house. Would it cost a lot to fit and run gas central heating off gas bottles or get a bulk tank fitted?

I had a small apartment in Cyprus some years ago and in winter heated the lounge/diner with bottled gas via a gas cooker and condensation used to stream down the patio doors so muggings here went and got a paraffin heater which of course caused the same problems I use a marine heater burning alcohol to heat tents through the night during winter camps and let my woodburner go out and its no problem in a cotton frame tent as the material 'breaths' but in my big nylon dome tent I get horrendous condensation build up as the material is sealed.


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## baldilocks

When I lived in North Wales, I installed Central Heating with Multipoint water heating + gas stove to run off Calor (Propane) gas. I used four 47kg bottles with two bottles at a time connected and an auto-changeover to switch to the other pair when the first pair ran out. It worked perfectly. It has the added advantage that you don't have to dash around in your birthday-suit, changing bottles, when the shower goes cold.

I've tried to get something similar here but our Repsol people either haven't heard of such a system (even using the smaller bombonas) or just don't _want_ to.

You may have better luck in your area.


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## gus-lopez

casa99 said:


> Gus are the propane ones better or cheaper than butano and do you need a different regulator as we could get them from the repsol garage at the top of the lane ?


The propane are only 11kgs & cheaper. See here ; Repsol: resultados, dividendos, informacion corporativa, Antonio Brufau y directivos - repsol.com
No the regulator is the same. The advantage is that they work when the temperature is at , or below, zero when the butane has stopped giving of gas.


"baldilocks When I lived in North Wales, I installed Central Heating with Multipoint water heating + gas stove to run off Calor (Propane) gas. I used four 47kg bottles with two bottles at a time connected and an auto-changeover to switch to the other pair when the first pair ran out. It worked perfectly. It has the added advantage that you don't have to dash around in your birthday-suit, changing bottles, when the shower goes cold.

I've tried to get something similar here but our Repsol people either haven't heard of such a system (even using the smaller bombonas) or just don't want to.

You may have better luck in your area "

That's quite common around here. combi-boiler run off of 3+3 or 5+5 large cylinders . I know of loads that have been installed by plumbing firms. Only trouble with them is that the large bottles are not regulated by the government & are 58,35€ . Which is nearly 5x the cost of a small bottle for less than 3x the gas. The same applies to having a bulk tank, the gas is dearer. A lot of the people around here don't use their central heating now as it's so dear with a bank of 5 needing to be changed every 15 days !!!


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