# Death of Spouse / Dual National



## MangoTango (Feb 8, 2020)

My wife passed away a month ago yesterday. We were given some time to prepare and thought we were BUT you wouldn't believe the troubles/issues I have had to deal with since.

First there is an issue with her will where I am mentioned as her sole heir. (Our wills are identical by the way). When we prepared the wills we specified three clauses to take affect in the even that we both passed at the same time. Well the piece about both of us passing together never made it into the will and as it reads my wife has gifted half our house to a charity in the US. Fortunately the charity realizes the mistake and is willing to renounce the gift. They will still be remembered when I pass... (But the renunciation involves a Mexican document, prepared by a Mexican notary etc).

It took about a month to get in contact with someone at the US embassy regarding social security but at this point I think I am all set there now. I should receive benefits in Jan/Feb - but it is a good thing I don't rely on those payments to live because the last one we received was on Oct 1.

We each had a few years left on two small 10 year annuities. I spoke to that company before she passed and thought that was all setup so I would simply continue to receive her payments against my social security number. After her death I spoke to a very helpful person who walked me through (on the phone) completing the required forms. That was a couple weeks back and I DHL'ed the forms back. Thought I was all set there.

Earlier this week I received a new email from the company. The person who had been handling my claim is gone and the new person has a whole set of new requirements. including :

A Foreign Death Questionnaire needs to be completed (attached)
Sworn English Translated death certificate
Death of American Citizen Abroad from American Embassy (if my wife was an American Citizen)
BUT - her Mexican death certificate states that her nationality is Mexican. These new requirements really feel as though they think she died while on vacation or such while in Mexico. Heck we haven't been outside Mexico in something like 7 years. My wife has NO assets in the US. All of our accounts were changed over with me being the individual owner..

Due to the holiday weekend there's no one there to talk with....


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## Stevenjb (Dec 10, 2017)

There is paperwork when we come into the world, and paperwork when we leave. Gives someone a job.

Sent from my Lenovo TB-8705F using Tapatalk


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## eastwind (Jun 18, 2016)

I don't have relevant experience in Mexico, but I remember when my Dad died my Mom spent around six months dealing with paperwork, getting names on accounts changed, etc. Lots and lots of original death certificates to buy and mail around. And that was just US standard, with a dead simple spouse-gets-it-all will. If they had an in-the-event clause for simultaneous death it was done correctly and didn't cause any trouble. They had too many small financial accounts that my Dad had started, put a little money in, and then never gotten serious with, so little piles of money all over the place, each with it's own paperwork. It wasn't six months of solid work, of course, but it was six months before the last of it was done.


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## MangoTango (Feb 8, 2020)

Update : perhaps I'm being a little too optimistic but :

the woman at the annuity company says she is satisfied with my paperwork and will push my claim forward.
haven't yet heard back from the FBU at the embassy.
did have a chat with Schwab and I can assign beneficiaries on my retirement accounts (but not the primary account). At least I can change my beneficiary from being my deceased wife on those accounts.
had a meeting with a GREAT notary today. Not only was she smart (and beautiful - can I say that) I think she can make my life simpler going forward. It is a shame it is such an Easter egg hunt to find the right people.
still have my fingers crossed that in the end the charity in the US accepts the document prepared by the Mexican notary to ultimately renounce the gift of half my house.

My next will - which is one of my top priorities is going to be much simpler. An executor - and one charity to take it all. I'll assign beneficiaries on specific assets as needed. 

So then we have to 'open' my wife's will (I guess that allows others to contest it - maybe a month). Write my new will. Put the house in MY name (regardless of the taxes), and then put the house on the market and see what happens.


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## eastwind (Jun 18, 2016)

It's a slog, but one foot in front of the other and you'll get through!


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## MangoTango (Feb 8, 2020)

Still slogging....


I did get a 'survivor' installment on my wife's annuity. I called when the amount differed from previous payments. Turns out they withheld state income tax, not realizing I live in Mexico. They will throw it into the next payment.
Still waiting to see if everything is set up correctly with US social security survivorship payments. That may take a couple more months yet.
Very Very disappointed with the US charity which was incorrectly given half ownership in my house in my wife's will. I won't mention their name but it rhymes with a large river in Germany. If there is any blue sky amidst the clouds at least my EXCELLENT Mexican notary is starting to get a little p*ssed at the delay in their agreeing to renouncing the error. (Perhaps it is just the person who has been assigned to my 'case'). The truly sad thing is - I had intended on leaving EVERYTHING to that charity. Now I have begun assigning individual beneficiaries (all different charities) for each 'bucket' (as I refer to them in my head).
So in the US I am going with 'Make-A-Wish' and St Jude's.
In Mexico I am thinking of Cruz Roja (maybe doctors without borders also).
Any other suggestions are very welcome.
I'm leaving the Mexican executor enough money so she can dispose of me and pay whatever other expenses might arise. But - she already has enough money she could toast marshmallows with the money. He doesn't know it yet but I'm leaving the gardener enough money he should be able to put his three young daughters through college.
Sold one of my cars yesterday to a nice couple from the US. It had been my wife's SUV (for 20+ years) and I do feel a little pain when I look and it is no longer parked out front. It was a great car.

These sorts of things are maybe a lot easier when you have family to leave everything to (or maybe not). 

You can always write a new will and you can always re-arrange beneficiaries.... But it is kind of important to keep things current.


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

It is nice to leave to charity but I will not leave anything to a charity as the administration gets the bulk of it in many cases. I will leave money to families I know could use the money. and that way 100% of what the government does not get.. goes to the people it is intended for. Good luck with the girls of your gardner.. very few girls in poorer family seem to have the incentive to continue school.. Every girl I know and thought about lhelping got pregnant and moved in with the boy frined.. Of all the girls I know.. one really want to continue with school and 2 are studying to be nurses, all others dropped out of school around 15 or 16.. Pretty sad but it seems to be the culture. I have know some of the families since the kids were born and no matter what that is what is happening to the girls.


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## MangoTango (Feb 8, 2020)

It has been nearly three months since my wife's passing. I am coping. There really is some truth to the 'stages of grief'. 
For most of our 40 years together we both worked a lot and her work entailed tons of international travel which kept her away sometimes for weeks at a time. That was were my head was at for a long time after her passing - she was just on another trip.

Well - at the moment I have two ongoing situations which are unresolved. 

I have contacted a Mexican lawyer to handle the resolution of my wife's will. He seems very competent but whatever solution is still potentially a couple months away.
My wife passed in Oct and had already received Oct's installment from social security. So when I reported her death to the FBU people at the embassy they asked I return her Oct payment. About a month later I got an hour long call to set up my survivor benefits. He asked I DHL some paper work to him and he has since returned it. That was Nov. So as I write this I have not received any SS benefit for Oct, Nov, Dec and Jan. Feb will make 5 missed payments. I wrote and called the people at the embassy but have not heard anything. How long is too long to wait ? When I look at the SSA.gov website it says my claim is in stage 2 of 3 in processing (which normally takes 2 to 4 weeks) - nothing else. Fortunately I do have some savings I can tap into but there have to be a few retirees in Mexico who rely on timely payments from social security...


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

In my experience, Social Security is better at making up the difference for any missed payments than it is at catching changes rapidly. My guess is that eventually your payments will start and you will receive one big payment for any months they missed.


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## MangoTango (Feb 8, 2020)

Nearly another month has passed and I still have not received any 'survivor' benefit payments from US social security.
That makes Oct, Nov, Dec, Jan and Feb with no checks.
It is a good thing I have some savings - I have no other source of income (except the little interest I make at the bank).
I mention it to vent a little but also to point out to others what they can expect if in a similar position.
I called the SS 800 number this week and (after only a half hour on hold) got through to a really nice guy who said his role was something like facilitator. He said everything looked in order and he would ask my file be expedited.


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## timmy45 (Mar 22, 2021)

Wow, you have been through a great deal of change and frustration the past several months. I believe that there are many of us that feel the pain that you have experienced and know that we may well be in that same or similar spot sooner than later. I truly admire your patience, you continue to move on in spite of these obstacles. You have offered insight on many things over the last year, for which I believe we will all benefit. Just wanted to let you know that I and others hear you and appreciate your candid conversations with us. I am embarrassed for the SS administration, hope that will be resolved soon. My very best to you..... Tim


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## PatrickMurtha (Feb 26, 2011)

I believe that the FBU can issue emergency funds in cases like this, although I’ve not gone through the process.


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## MangoTango (Feb 8, 2020)

I don't see myself in an emergency type situation - but I could understand how some people might be.
What can possibly take so long ? I thought all the 'screening' type stuff was handled by my hour long phone conversation with the FBU in November.
My wife did receive her Oct benefit payment on Oct 3. She passed away on Oct 25 and I informed the FBU a few days later. Would you believe that on November 4th I received an email from them asking that I return the Oct payment. It certainly didn't take months for them to handle that.... It is as though the FBU is getting their job done - but it is the people in the US (in my case Baltimore MD) who are holding things up. 

I am entitled to my own benefits (I'm going on 68) but I was holding out because if I wait until I turn 70 it means a few hundred dollars more per month - but at this point I'm questioning if it wise for me to wait - what if it is going to take me some 6 months to receive my own benefits after I turn 70.


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## PatrickMurtha (Feb 26, 2011)

I took my SS benefit right at age 62 because of COVID. I had a delay of a few weeks in receiving my first payment because of a very slight mismatch between my registered SS address and my banking address. I mean, we are talking SLIGHT, a few characters. I had to figure this out myself. I spent endless hours on the phone with the SS helpline and my bank, but not with FBU (because you can’t call them, and they didn’t respond to my emails). And I did a ton of research on what COULD have gone wrong. 

It was all pretty stressful, although I pushed so hard that in the end, I did receive the money within a month. I needed it, which is why I investigated the emergency payment possibility.

If you can wait till 70, do so - those extra dollars are nice. I don’t regret going early, though. Not having to work is blissful.


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## PatrickMurtha (Feb 26, 2011)

<What can possibly take so long?>

A larger point here is that modern life is supposed to be super-speedy, and I for one just don’t feel that. Especially not here in Mexico, that almost goes without saying, but in the US and globally too. Sure, million-dollar stock transactions can be completed in nano-seconds, but that doesn’t affect ME in the least; meanwhile, most of the processes that I AM involved in seem to drag out forever.


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## timmy45 (Mar 22, 2021)

One of the products of living and working in the US for over 70 years is the expectation that "modern life is supposed to be super speedy". That is the main reason that life in MX has been so pleasant for me. I believe that I have slowed down immensely and have benefitted from it. I continually remind myself that I should have "hopes" about how smoothly things go but should avoid having "expectations" about that. I have been seeing several medical specialists lately and have been amazed at how efficiently and smoothly things go. I think that it is 50% because I have minimal expectations and 50% because the culture has taught me to slow down..... just a thought.


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## PatrickMurtha (Feb 26, 2011)

Nothing wrong with a more relaxed pace of life, and that is not unique to Mexico: It can be found throughout Latin America, Europe, and other areas. Indeed, perhaps only parts of East Asia (Japan, South Korea, Taiwan) rival the US for tension-provoking pace. But processes in those places can also be extremely efficient, taking no more time than they need to; I had direct (and very gratifying!) experience of that when I lived in South Korea. What I object to ANYWHERE is when processes drag out in a lackadaisical or dawdling way.

As for Mexico, I find it pleasant sometimes and frustrating at other times. I am probably not unusual in this. On balance, I choose to remain here, and I too have coped with what I don’t like by adjusting my expectations downward on certain points. But certainly, the blanket lack of urgency is not one of my favorite features of the culture.


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## MangoTango (Feb 8, 2020)

My wife spent a ton of time in Latin America (on business) over the years. She had this 'impression' that Latin males (in particular) generally want to please. They will tell you what they think you want to hear (whether or not it is true / possible etc). They will claim that they can do whatever you need done (even though they often have no experience in doing the thing). So up front whatever 'commitment' has been assumed is doomed. Whatever sense of urgency exists is very one sided.

I could give some specific examples (particularly in the medical field) but maybe I'll hold off for now.

I am at a crossroad in my life. We moved here almost 10 years ago and up until maybe 6 months ago I thought we would always stay here. But I am re-thinking that and a big reason is I have too much 'German' blood in me. My life has pretty much always been commitments built on commitments. If someone tells me something will be done on such and such a date - and I line up a bunch of other people's time based on that commitment - and that commitment is not met - that drives me crazy (not to mention it embarrasses the heck out of me). There is no way I will ever be able to accept that.

Why now, you might ask. Why feel this way after 10 years. Well honestly until recently the responsibility of coordinating things fell upon my wife because her Spanish was so superior to mine. I have come to realize just how much stress she must have been under - without (hardly ever) complaining...


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## PatrickMurtha (Feb 26, 2011)

MangoTango said:


> I am at a crossroad in my life. We moved here almost 10 years ago and up until maybe 6 months ago I thought we would always stay here. But I am re-thinking that and a big reason is I have too much 'German' blood in me. My life has pretty much always been commitments built on commitments. If someone tells me something will be done on such and such a date - and I line up a bunch of other people's time based on that commitment - and that commitment is not met - that drives me crazy (not to mention it embarrasses the heck out of me). There is no way I will ever be able to accept that.


I can certainly relate to all of this (including the German part!). Fortunately, I don’t have to deal with those sorts of commitments so much in retirement, so I can keep the frustration level lower.

I am here in Mexico partly because I was here ALREADY, teaching, and had established permanent residency well before I would need it for retirement. So that was all very convenient, and I have always liked the climate and the low cost of living. The proximity to the US is a good thing (although I don’t use it myself), and the language is much more accessible than Korean or Polish or whatever. Mexican history and literature are fascinating to me, and I like the classic architecture and physical culture. All big pluses!

On the negative front, I am not keen on some aspects of the society and culture, and the country doesn’t do much for me socially, but I live with it. I am good at amusing myself, and I have my pets. I keep my social expectations low, but since I myself have become less social as I age, the fit there is not TOO bad.


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## kphoger (Apr 22, 2020)

MangoTango said:


> My wife spent a ton of time in Latin America (on business) over the years. She had this 'impression' that Latin males (in particular) generally want to please. They will tell you what they think you want to hear (whether or not it is true / possible etc). They will claim that they can do whatever you need done (even though they often have no experience in doing the thing).


Every question in Mexico will receive a "Yes" answer.

Q: Does this road go to _ _ _ _ (insert town name)?
A: Yes.
Truth: This road can take you to another road, which can take you to another road, and _that_ road actually goes to _ _ _ _.

Q: Will you help me dig a pit on the back side of my property?
A: Yes.
Truth: You're a rich American who has enough money to just hire someone, so why bother showing up?

Q: My car's radiator blew on my way home yesterday. Can you fix the cooling system for me?
A: Yes.
Truth: Your car will be repaired with plumbing pipes. (_I did not make this one up._)


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## eastwind (Jun 18, 2016)

My favorites are Mañana y Lunes. The first means "someday after today" and the second means "someday after this week".


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## kphoger (Apr 22, 2020)

And my favorite timeframe-related phrase is "hoy o mañana".


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## timmy45 (Mar 22, 2021)

No wonder all of you are frustrated,...maybe the answer is to return to the place where everything is at the intense pace that you like.....as for me , I could not be happier with the culture and pace of life here in MX


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## PatrickMurtha (Feb 26, 2011)

Expecting results in a reasonable time-frame is not the same as demanding an intense pace. 🙂


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## eastwind (Jun 18, 2016)

I'm not frustrated, I just had to get over some initial incorrect expectations due to google mis-translations


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## MangoTango (Feb 8, 2020)

TundraGreen said:


> In my experience, Social Security is better at making up the difference for any missed payments than it is at catching changes rapidly. My guess is that eventually your payments will start and you will receive one big payment for any months they missed.


I finally see that Social Security deposited some money in my Mexican bank today. I'm not quite sure of the math - but at this point I am not complaining (too strongly anyway). So my wife's last payment was on September 3rd. Today I received her payments for Oct and Nov as well as the monthly payments for 3 other months (choose from Dec, Jan, Feb or Mar). Unless March will come along at some point later because today I also did not receive the one time lump sum death payment ($250 US). 

But I did receive a decent amount of money today and for that I am grateful.


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## eastwind (Jun 18, 2016)

Well that's good, it sounds kind of like you might be missing one month, but at least the pipeline's moving again. Or maybe they pro-rated one month and added in $250. If you're lucky you will at some point get some paperwork explaining their calculations, but my pessimistic assumption is that it is what it is and you can only accept it, not change it. Next month you'll see what your forward going rate is going to be.

How's your house situation coming?


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## PatrickMurtha (Feb 26, 2011)

First, I would check the “My Social Security” portal; what was paid and what remains to be paid will probably be clear there. If not, I would call them.


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## MangoTango (Feb 8, 2020)

Social Security's site has an option to generate a "Benefit Verification Letter" which I have printed off. It says - for Oct and Nov the benefit payment was X/month. It then goes on to say that the regular monthly benefit payment is now Y. So - if I take the amount deposited and subtract 2X (the amount for Oct + Nov) and then take the remainder and divide by 3 I get 3 months equal to Y's payment amount. To the penny. Going forward I will get Y amount...

Thank you for asking about the house. I have my fingers crossed and don't want to jinx anything by talking about it...

So - I have started to entertain what might come next in my life. At the moment I see three possibilities. a) The Diamante area of Acapulco (which is very nice, a little pricey perhaps but I could rent/buy a small condo and commute often between my current home and the beach. b) Return at least 181 days to Florida and rent in the same complex my wife and I rented in some 35+ years ago - it was nice back then (today they have no vacancies). I could maintain my Mexican citizenship but become a legal US resident and have a US will, be a normal US investor etc. Maybe return to Mexico 4-6 months/year and c) Consider Cancun/Puerto Morelos - which I see as totally severing my connections to where I am today. I've never had a Facebook account but I did sign up for the sole purpose of checking out the Cancun expat group. I made no posts what-so-ever and yet a week later Facebook suspended my account.


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## MangoTango (Feb 8, 2020)

Update : Finally got around to calling Social Security and asked for an explanation regarding the monies I received on March 3rd. (I called 1-800-772-1213) early on a Monday morning and the wait time was only 30-40 minutes, which I think is great. Anyway - it turns out the monthly social security payments are paid in arrears. I'm not sure then why they wanted my wife's Oct 3rd payment returned because she didn't pass away in September - but hey - I'm not complaining at this point.

But the moral of this story is - it can take quite some time to receive survivor benefits from SSA - so, if applicable, prepare for it.


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## eastwind (Jun 18, 2016)

Well that's one thing resolved, one more big one to go!


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## MangoTango (Feb 8, 2020)

The "big one" is resolved as well. The difficult part was finding like-minded/intelligent people.


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