# "Host" for visa application



## UneFilleDuPort

Hi there, in preparing my Long Stay Tourist Visa application, it gives the option to say that someone will be hosting you while you're in the country (instead of renting an apartment or buying property). I have friends who live in France who said they would be cool with me putting their address down as my "host". They are in the same city where I plan to stay.

I wouldn't actually be staying with them though, I'd get AirBnBs. But I wouldn't have all the AirBnB's reserved for the entire year in advance, and I also read on this forum that changing your address with the authorities every time you switch AirBnBs is a big hassle. Plus some AirBnBs might not accept mail. So while I know you can put AirBnB confirmations on your application, it doesn't sound like the best option.

Would the Consulate/Prefecture care if the address on my application doesn't end up being my actual residence? Would my friends get in trouble for going on record saying I'm staying with them, when I'm actually not? I mean, if something bad happened and I got into a situation, I'm sure my friends would let me stay with them, so in that sense it's accurate to represent them as proof that I wouldn't be homeless.


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## Bevdeforges

I assume you mean you're going for a long-stay "visitor" visa. A "tourist" visa is, by definition, limited to 90 days and does not confer residency. 

As far as having a "host" - your friends will no doubt be asked to produce an attestation de herbergement, which usually indicates the terms for your staying with them (i.e. rent, no rent, sharing of expenses, etc.). They need to make sure they are aware that they will be responsible for alerting you to any and all contacts at their home for you - since the government assumes this is your residence address and if they need to get in touch with you for any reason, a letter sent to that address is considered definitive contact. (Also be sure to give your friends a "procuration" to be able to sign for registered mail for you at that address. Some post offices are fussier about this than others.)

In the event that you need proof of your residence during the first year you are in France, be aware you may have problems. (Say, if you wanted to buy and register a car.) If you are planning on staying past a year, this issue may also pop up during the titre de séjour renewal process.


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## Crabtree

The whole idea of a Visa is so that the authorities can trace third country nationals who are staying in the country.By making a false declaration on your visa application with the connivance of your friends puts you and them in a very difficult position as you could be fined and expelled from the Schengen area and be banned from the whole area.Likewise your friends could be deported.All it would take would be a spot check by the police or some incident happening say a fire at your Air B&B? So no do not do it The authorities will not look kindly on it
As an aside how do you intend supporting yourself whilst you are in France as this is an important part of the Visa process


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## UneFilleDuPort

Bevdeforges said:


> In the event that you need proof of your residence during the first year you are in France, be aware you may have problems. (Say, if you wanted to buy and register a car.) If you are planning on staying past a year, this issue may also pop up during the titre de séjour renewal process.


Thank you so much! It's good to have an expectation of what types of issues it could cause down the line. Yeah I meant the visitor visa, and I would be hoping to renew it after the first year. 

Do you think the best thing is just to go into a contract/lease for my own place? I read that lots of places won't want to rent to me because I don't have the visa yet, the whole catch 22 of you need accommodation for a visa but you need a visa for accommodation. So that's why I had gotten onto the host/AirBnB idea. But I'm not married to it if people think a real apartment of my own is the better avenue?


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## UneFilleDuPort

Crabtree said:


> The whole idea of a Visa is so that the authorities can trace third country nationals who are staying in the country.By making a false declaration on your visa application with the connivance of your friends puts you and them in a very difficult position as you could be fined and expelled from the Schengen area and be banned from the whole area.Likewise your friends could be deported.All it would take would be a spot check by the police or some incident happening say a fire at your Air B&B? So no do not do it The authorities will not look kindly on it
> As an aside how do you intend supporting yourself whilst you are in France as this is an important part of the Visa process


Oh wow ok, thanks. You're the first person across a few forums to say it would be a wrong thing to do. Do you think hopping from AirBnB to AirBnB every couple months would also be a bad option? I've heard other people say they've done this without issue, yet others say changing addresses is not a good idea.

My job is remote, I can work from anywhere.


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## EuroTrash

UneFilleDuPort said:


> My job is remote, I can work from anywhere.


Hmm, you may need to look a bit deeper into this.

The best option for remote workers who want to go work in another country with a minimum of red tape is some kind of digital nomad visa, but unfortunately France doesn't offer this type of visa. 
The issue is that remote workers are deemed to be working in whichever country they are physically located while they are carring out the activity that generates the income. Where their clients are located or what currency or country they get paid in, is irrelevant. So if you are "in France" and you are "working", then you are "working in France". 

Staying on a UK payroll/declaring self assessment in the UK and continuing to pay income tax and NICs, as if you were still living and working in the UK, could turn into a whole can of worms further down the line because you would be infringing all kinds of French legislation, If you're living and working in France you need to be paying your taxes and social security cotisations in France but first of all you need work authorisation. A visitor visa doesn't allow you to work. The visa authorities will want to see that you have sufficient income or savings to support yourself for the duration of your stay in France, without working.


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## Bevdeforges

EuroTrash said:


> The visa authorities will want to see that you have sufficient income or savings to support yourself for the duration of your stay in France, without working.


This is where we come to that very important item on the visa application, namely the "purpose" of your stay in France. If you say you are "visiting" then you're applying for the visitor visa, and will have to affirm your intention NOT to work. Then, the question of how you will support yourself comes into question. Depending on your age, you may or may not be able to offer that you have "savings" because unless you're very close to retiring and having a pension to draw on, the French government normally doesn't accept having you spend down your life savings for a "visit" to France. The idea that you would want to renew your "visitor" visa makes it even more critical that you not be relying on remote employment, since the renewal process is basically one of determining that all the conditions of your original visa are still in place. Changing from a non-working visa to one that would allow you to work is not generally possible without returning to your home country and starting over again. (Unless, of course, you marry a French national or something like that.)


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## BackinFrance

UneFilleDuPort said:


> Hi there, in preparing my Long Stay Tourist Visa application, it gives the option to say that someone will be hosting you while you're in the country (instead of renting an apartment or buying property). I have friends who live in France who said they would be cool with me putting their address down as my "host". They are in the same city where I plan to stay.
> 
> I wouldn't actually be staying with them though, I'd get AirBnBs. But I wouldn't have all the AirBnB's reserved for the entire year in advance, and I also read on this forum that changing your address with the authorities every time you switch AirBnBs is a big hassle. Plus some AirBnBs might not accept mail. So while I know you can put AirBnB confirmations on your application, it doesn't sound like the best option.
> 
> Would the Consulate/Prefecture care if the address on my application doesn't end up being my actual residence? Would my friends get in trouble for going on record saying I'm staying with them, when I'm actually not? I mean, if something bad happened and I got into a situation, I'm sure my friends would let me stay with them, so in that sense it's accurate to represent them as proof that I wouldn't be homeless.


Take a look at the Renting in Paris for Expats thread. The situation was different, however you may find some ideas there beyond Airbnb and being 'hosted' as some of the suggested links are relevant to other situations


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## UneFilleDuPort

EuroTrash said:


> The issue is that remote workers are deemed to be working in whichever country they are physically located while they are carring out the activity that generates the income. Where their clients are located or what currency or country they get paid in, is irrelevant. So if you are "in France" and you are "working", then you are "working in France".


I listened to multiple podcasts and read multiple blogs where Americans like me who have remote jobs said they specifically chose to apply for the long stay visitor visa for France because it’s the best option for remote workers or freelance people, and they successfully got their visas? Because all the interviewer wanted to know was that they’re not taking work from a French person. I do have good savings though too.


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## UneFilleDuPort

Bevdeforges said:


> If you say you are "visiting" then you're applying for the visitor visa, and will have to affirm your intention NOT to work.


What about this girl, who successfully got her visa? “Since I’m not a student or an au pair, don’t have a French employer sponsoring a work visa and am not a spouse of French national, that left me with the long stay visa for France. I read up and since I can still work, just not for a French company in France, this was definitely the visa for me. I’d still be able to continue freelancing, working as an ambassador for Viator, write my book and all the other things I do to earn a living as a professional travel blogger.”


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## UneFilleDuPort

BackinFrance said:


> Take a look at the Renting in Paris for Expats thread. The situation was different, however you may find some ideas there beyond Airbnb and being 'hosted' as some of the suggested links are relevant to other situations


Awesome, thank you!


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## Bevdeforges

UneFilleDuPort said:


> What about this girl, who successfully got her visa?


There are always those who "get away with it" - depends on their specific circumstances. And in those cases where someone gets a one year visitor visa using their remote work as their "financial resources" I strongly suspect that they have said that they will not be renewing their visa at the end of the first year. (That's how it works for someone on sabbatical, where their US university is paying them during their sabbatical year.)

But that nonsense about 


UneFilleDuPort said:


> I can still work, just not for a French company in France,


Is just that - nonsense. It seems to be only the Americans that interpret the requirements in this way. If you want to risk finding out the hard way (i.e. when you go to renew your titre de séjour) be my guest.


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## UneFilleDuPort

Bevdeforges said:


> I strongly suspect that they have said that they will not be renewing their visa at the end of the first year.


Further down on her post she said she's renewed it. She's continued living there since 2016. I also listened to a bunch of episodes of the Join Us In France travel podcast with similar stories. And as I scour the French government and embassy sites looking for details, it never says outright "no, you cannot work for a foreign company on this visa". I wish they would just put that somewhere in writing on one of the official websites to make it clear, if that's what they expect. If they don't say it anywhere then how is anyone supposed to know


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## EuroTrash

UneFilleDuPort said:


> all the interviewer wanted to know was that they’re not taking work from a French person.


Well that is part of the story but here's another side to it.
A girl from the US or the UK or wherever comes to France, settles there and does what she does - blogging, social media or whatever. She takes the profits and banks them.
A French girl living in the same apartment block, is doing the same type of work (blogging, social media or whatever). She takes the same profits, out of which she pays a whole range of contributions: to the French healthcare system, to the social security system, CGT and CRDS which are a kind of social tax which support various national initiatives for the vulnerable among other things, plus income tax. That's around 25% of her earnings that she's contributed to the national economy one way and another. As opposed to 0% in her neighbour's case.
That's not a level playing field, is it?
If you live and work in a country; that country normally expects you to pay your dues there. France happens to be particularly keen on this notion of social responsibility or solidarity or the level playing field or whatever you want to call it


UneFilleDuPort said:


> And as I scour the French government and embassy sites looking for details, it never says outright "no, you cannot work for a foreign company on this visa". I wish they would just put that somewhere in writing on one of the official websites to make it clear, if that's what they expect. If they don't say it anywhere then I'm not sure how they can penalize me for it.


But all the information is out there if you dig a bit deeper.
This site for instance You employ staff in France while located abroad - Urssaf.fr explains exactly what foreign companies must do if they wish to employ workers in France. True it doesn't say in so many words that the worker would need work authorisation, I guess it assumes that that goes without saying, but as soon as you start clicking through the links for the process of emploing a worker, one of the very first things that will be checked will be, whether the person has the right to work in France.

And to be fair, I don't think they ask for a signed statement saying that you will not work for a French company. They ask for a signed statement saying that you will not work in France. Sooner you than me having to explain which of the words they used led you to believe they were only talking about working for French companies.

.


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## UneFilleDuPort

EuroTrash said:


> That's not a level playing field, is it?
> If you live and work in a country; that country normally expects you to pay your dues there.


I’m more than happy to pay taxes in France. If they want my money, take it! I’ll pay taxes in both the US and France at the same time, I don’t care. If they give me an avenue to do so.

The words they used that led me to believe they want me to have outsider income, is the part where they demand that you must have monthly income to support yourself, but they don't want you to work in France. Sooooo..... is this visa ONLY for retirees, that's it? There is zero other type of acceptable monthly income besides pension? You'd think they'd want young healthy people like me who won't drain their healthcare system.


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## Bevdeforges

To get that initial visitor visa, you will need to show proof that you have private medical insurance to cover you for that first year. This is not a negligible expense. After 3 months of residence in France, you are able to enroll in the French health care system (not for free, but for a fee based on your declared income for the previous year). The easiest way to do that is to register your work activity as a French business entity so that you are properly registered for and paying into the tax and social insurance systems here from the get go. As I understand it, it has been possible in the past to register as an "independent" worker (roughly like a self-employed person, but subject to a number of thresholds, limits and conditions) with a visitor visa. I'm not sure if that is still the case - which could explain the person you noted who has been here since 2016. The law changed fairly recently - at least in the last couple of years, maybe shortly before the pandemic turned everything upside down.

If you're a US citizen, you will always have to file income taxes with both the US and France - though you should be able to "exclude" your foreign earned income using the appropriate tax forms. Both the French and US forms require you to declare your worldwide income - and there are specific forms and declarations so that you shouldn't be paying double taxes on the same income. There is also the little matter of the US social security "self-employment tax" which you can be exempted from only if you can show that you are properly enrolled in the French social security system - which is easy if you're properly registered for whatever it is you are doing remotely. (There are a couple of ways to handle this - either through your employer or on your own, though US employers usually don't like getting dragged into the French social security system because it costs them more than the US system.)

Ultimately, you play the game and you take your chances. The way the system is set up for immigration to France, no one is going to drag you off to prison if you do something wrong or you got bad information from a "reliable" source. (Ask me how I know this. <g>) But somewhere down the line you may find yourself tied up in knots because you skipped a step or missed out on some seemingly trivial requirement. All we're doing here is trying to help you avoid future problems.


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## GraceS

UneFilleDuPort said:


> What about this girl, who successfully got her visa? “Since I’m not a student or an au pair, don’t have a French employer sponsoring a work visa and am not a spouse of French national, that left me with the long stay visa for France. I read up and since I can still work, just not for a French company in France, this was definitely the visa for me. I’d still be able to continue freelancing, working as an ambassador for Viator, write my book and all the other things I do to earn a living as a professional travel blogger.”


I don't think you should rely on that blog post for info on how to move to France. It was written in 2016. Huge swaths of it are simply incorrect today. 

Just one example: the whole section on determining where to apply for a visa is old, outdated and wrong. Visa interviews and dossier intake is done today at a VFS Global office, the French government's visa processing partner company. And today, a US applicant can apply at any VFS office, not just the one nearest their home. 

Most of the other sections are equally out of date. And if you read between the lines, this blogger is married, seems to be financially supported by her husband, and claimed on her visa application that she wanted to be in France to research a book. 

If you want to read accurate blogs about the visa application process, I'd suggest:

The American in Paris The American in Paris | Helping You Adapt to Life in France
The Americaine in France Américaine in France - (americaineinfrance.com)
Mafrenchlife Practical Resources for Expats in France - ma French Life

To answer your question directly, regarding visitor visa + work. I've had a couple of different flavors of french long stay visas. The one I applied for/received in Nov. 2021 was a long stay visitor visa VLS-TS. As of November 2021, the French government visa website said that you had to include with your application a "a promise not to exercise any professional activity in France."

That statement is much more broad than simply not working for a French company. 

There are other categories of visa that may be more appropriate for you, and the first blog on the list above discusses them in some depth.

Good luck!


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