# Non native English speaker .....Be prepared for this once u land in AU



## rahulsingh (Dec 13, 2010)

Hi All,

I want all non native English speakers those who are aspiring to migrate to Australia on 175 visa. This programme should be an eye opener for you. (Its broadcasted yesterday on SBS one channel)

Migration Boom : SBS Insight


Grass is not that greener on this side. My wife is trying to search a job for the past six month but she is denied a job because she does not has local experience. (Even though she has 4+ years of experience with top multinationals in India).There is still not enough acceptance by Australian employers for non native English speakers.
Be prepared for very tough job search once you land in Australia. 

Best wishes for your applications ...
Rahul


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## _Sarah_ (Jun 27, 2011)

Hi Rahul,

I can sympathise with you to a certain extent, obviously everyone wants to work in the occupation in which they have experience. However, I don't see how you can generalise about the whole skilled migrant population from just a few select experiences. 

I live in Melbourne and I encounter skilled professionals from overseas every day, even skilled migrants who have a good knowledge of English but who have difficult-to-understand accents work in professional positions; you can't say I'm wrong because* I see it with my own eyes in my own city.*

I understand it's unfair that those without 'local experience' are immediately rejected, obviously the best applicant should be hired whether they are natives or from overseas. However, *it might be that in some certain cases local experience really is needed*. Also, many Indians complain about 'local experience' and only being able to get hired in lower paying jobs; *there is nothing wrong with doing a lower-paying job for some time in order to get local experience, and then to move on to a better paying job once you have experience.*

In my opinion some jobs really do require a native-like English language competency, along with an accent that everyone can clearly understand.

I don't go to France and complain that French people are getting more job offers than me, the French people know France better than me! I wouldn't go to India with a bad accent in Hindi and complain that a native got the job instead of me. *Despite the negatives*, so many skilled migrants make great careers in Australia - obviously not everyone is having difficulty finding a good job.

What's more, if you or your wife managed to get so many great jobs in India, then maybe you should consider where you want to live. I know so many who went overseas to France, to the UK or Spain,* they didn't find work so they came back, that's life.*


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## FWL (Jun 20, 2011)

To be fair, Australia is an English speaking country so it's not surprising that native English speakers find it easier to get jobs. Local experience is fair enough too considering the companies only want the best for themselves and that means hiring the best employees.

These kind of things are not really something a non native English speaker have any right to complain about to be honest, it's you that's making the choice to come to an English speaking country.


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## stormgal (Sep 30, 2009)

Read the comments, they're practically all negative -
it's not only about a language difference, but a lot more than that...

Migration Boom : SBS Insight


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## _Sarah_ (Jun 27, 2011)

I know it's not all language. But seriously, apart from truly horrible stories where the immigrant who was clearly more suitable for a position was rejected and a local chosen for no logical reason...apart from a couple of stories like that, why _wouldn't_ an employer want someone with local experience?

It's only logical. An employer hiring someone in real estate, for example, is looking for someone who knows the Australian house market and who has demonstrated sales experience to Australian clients, it's nothing to do with racism if the employer choses someone who has the proof on their CV rather than someone who doesn't have that CV but who is equally determined.

It's all about experience. Myself, an Australia born citizen, cannot apply for 90% of jobs available because I don't have the experience. What's more, even if I did have the experience from overseas, how could I provide valuable *references*?

In the end, leaving one's country is a choice, and one that must be well calculated and risks must be acknowledged.


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## DS3 (May 13, 2010)

I totally agree that most of the aussies that you meet on the road are very friendly however somehow things change the moment you walk into a firm and ask for employment opportunities. Somehow this gives the impressions to most of the Indians who are in Oz think that the Aussies are only pretending to be friendly. Now i know that this is not true but as they say 'Your perception your reality'

India is a country with lousy infra, pathetic health care and weak yet corrupt ministry. The reason ppl leave india is not for career growth but to enjoy a better std of living and get a better future for their kid. So they are worried for how long do they have to do lower paying jobs/odd jobs since they have left senior positions with higher than the avg pay for a better life. And as we all painfully know that more sooner than later the equation of less money comes in and then ppl start to reflect in their mind if the 'move' was worth it.

Yes very true that the accent thing is a problem however come on its just a language that is spoken a bit differently .... by the way very few on the roads again very few aussies actually have a problem so the corollary should mean there should not be any trouble even work wise.

In fact i noticed a very funny thing most of the australians i encountered usually have a decently clear accent ...the Aussie Cricketers that we see on tv have a majorly pronounced drawl wonder why is that? But most of the Aussies speak quite slowly and the Indians usually speak very fast.

At the end of it all give us some more time to blend i...after all you folks have had the luxury of being born and brought up in a developed economy. Btw as an Indian who has probably taken lots of loans from friends and family thanks to the Dollar and INR difference it may not be an option to go back unlike you guys. That is the reason most of us cant admit that they have made a mistake by moving.

Sorry if i rambled along too long just wanted to put across the view points of my country men who may or may not have the time and the tenacity to think clearly and put it in words about their feelings towards the local aussie population.

Anyway you guys are very very friendly and i have happened to travel the globe. So keep on smiling and being friendly and till some time just bear with us the not so fortunate brethren. 

Warm Regards,

DS


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## lazybones1978 (Jul 14, 2011)

if you read the WA equal opportunity at work,employers should not discriminate an applicant regardless of race, gender, disability,political or religious convictions. Hence, they must take into consideration how will an applicant bring benefit and contribute to the economic growth of AU. But knowing the business language is definitely a must. On the other way around it's not just knowing how to speak but also to be understood. I'm presently working in a workplace where there are non-nationals like me, a scottish (sometimes you would require subtitles LOL), nigerians, indians, english and few polish and it's very nice when we all gather for a cigarette and start talking about everything,now that's nearly 5 different accents and that's a communication traffic.
But this news whether it's true will impact a negative impression on Australia's global competitiveness. But i also read an article outside of this forum about an Indian who was about to be a repatriate after XYZ number of years of living in the Northern Territory due to language barrier but in all fairness i've worked with Indians here and their English are good.


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## stormgal (Sep 30, 2009)

_Sarah_ said:


> I know it's not all language. But seriously, apart from truly horrible stories where the immigrant who was clearly more suitable for a position was rejected and a local chosen for no logical reason...apart from a couple of stories like that, why _wouldn't_ an employer want someone with local experience?
> 
> It's only logical. An employer hiring someone in real estate, for example, is looking for someone who knows the Australian house market and who has demonstrated sales experience to Australian clients, it's nothing to do with racism if the employer choses someone who has the proof on their CV rather than someone who doesn't have that CV but who is equally determined.
> 
> ...


Oh no, my comment was not directed towards you, just a generalization that the sentiment seems to be negative (towards the immigration process in general). For instance, there is a comment there where people are complaining that company's should train citizens instead of begging the government to hand out 457's whenever it is perceived that there is a shortage of skilled workers. I can understand the comment, though, it's actually quite normal to feel this way. What these company's are doing is making it harder for the average aussie to compete for jobs. Their competition becomes global. (But this is not something that Westerners are not already used to).


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## sriikanth (May 23, 2009)

Dear Rahul


What English are we talking about ... India has the largest population of English speakers in the world..The bone of contention maybe is the accent which we need some time to get used to and maybe after a couple of years of local experience we should be able to manage.

List of countries by English-speaking population - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


So don't worry too much about the language. There are a hell lot of jobs where Aussie dont like to work long hours . maybe thats the area where you can try.

Be Postive.


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## rahulsingh (Dec 13, 2010)

sriikanth said:


> Dear Rahul
> 
> 
> What English are we talking about ... India has the largest population of English speakers in the world..The bone of contention maybe is the accent which we need some time to get used to and maybe after a couple of years of local experience we should be able to manage.
> ...


Hi Sriikanth,

It’s not only about English but also about local experience, anyways i am positive. 

Thanks for support 
Rahul


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## pcrial (Sep 27, 2010)

_Sarah_ said:


> Hi Rahul,
> 
> I can sympathise with you to a certain extent, obviously everyone wants to work in the occupation in which they have experience. However, I don't see how you can generalise about the whole skilled migrant population from just a few select experiences.
> 
> ...


I'm going to second this one. I knew a person with professional qualifications, who just couldn't seem to get a job. Turns out the problem wasn't non-native English related at all. The problem was, the person was a smoker, in a field where smoking is not permitted.

Sure this is discrimination, but through experience the companies discovered that smokers often cheat on safety requirements, by trying to light up, and cause explosions, fires, and other dangers to other employees, therefore they quit hiring smokers. These industries use a lot of flammable and explosive liquids that emit explosive vapors, and these companies have nearly eliminated smokers from their workforce. Their interviewers are quite skilled at detecting smokers even if you do not light up in their presence. There are many reasons for not being hired. I took a qualification test for an engineering job, and had the highest score, of over 100 applicants, yet did not get the job because of my age. The problem is, you are often not told why you were not hired. You may be wrong in your assumption the problem is language.

Cheers,


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## _Sarah_ (Jun 27, 2011)

Pcrial is very right _"The problem is, you are often not told why you were not hired. You may be wrong in your assumption the problem is language". _ How can we ever really know the reason? Because even if we are told "you didn't have the qualifications" or anything else, it could always be a lie.


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## Guest (Jul 28, 2011)

Exactly Sarah. I know my qualifications are great, as is my experience BUT I know in comparison to others I'm toss at interviews. I've been to many interviews and been rejected for lots of them. I could claim I was discriminated against because I have a disability, because I am mixed race, because I'm from Liverpool (some would say we speak another language) and they dont like my accent etc etc 

But instead I am able to look at myself, my technique, the competition and environment and I keep trying to improve myself to improve my chances at getting the job instead of blaming it on things that it might even not be and doing nothing to help myself. 

BUT if you do think it is having English as a secondary language that is holding you back (anyone not just the OP) Then go to the local college or TAFE and enrol on an english course. Or in fact any course where you will be conversing in English every day.
IELTS is good for it's purpose but it is NOT English lessons. It does not teach you what you need to make your way in an English speaking country. 
Which is exactly what I would do If I chose to go and work in a country where they did not speak English.


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## Guest (Jul 28, 2011)

I think with the introduction of the new Skilled Migrant Selection Model, a lot of this debate will get resolved by itself. People won't just get a 175 visa for having points, but rather they will need to get an invite. And that invite will be given after consultation with employers. So it will be highly unlikely that people who are unable to get jobs will filter through. They have already upped the IELTS criterion. Obviously they are monitoring the situation and if they feel so, they could press the IELTS people to further enhance their testing to ensure people will be able to function properly in a Western society.


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## Guest (Jul 29, 2011)

Sorry I got the answer to my own question I had posted earlier. ---Message Deleted---


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## KL_User (Jul 4, 2011)

rahulsingh said:


> Hi All,
> 
> I want all non native English speakers those who are aspiring to migrate to Australia on 175 visa. This programme should be an eye opener for you. (Its broadcasted yesterday on SBS one channel)
> 
> ...



Hi Rahul,

Sorry to hear about your circumstances but I hope that things will get better soon !

As an IT professional, I've been to nearly every nook and corner of the world and let me tell you, that every work culture is very very different. The way you dress, talk, behave and present yourself has a massive impact on how you are perceived professionally. One has to 'market' oneself to get the job that you want. After all the effort that one spends on the migration itself, one needs to go this extra mile as only having a visa does not help you get a job : its the basis for a job but does not guarantee it.

Since we've taken the bold step of going off to far away lands to eke out a new living, it goes without saying that initially its going to be difficult to get a job till one has properly adjusted to the local customs and practices. So one should not get disheartened by job/ interview rejections and instead should keep trying. I know its easier said than done but its the only option. 

Try and take on the local customs and practices and see how they work out for you. 
And of course, there is the luck factor but no one has control over that so just let it be.

I've worked extensively with Australians and they are very professional and to the point in their outlook of life. They are also very straight forward to the point of being blunt and this can be misunderstood by people who haven't worked with them before. 

In conclusion, its not just the English that matters but other things are at play too as I've mentioned. 

All the best Rahul and tk care


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## rackspace (Dec 13, 2009)

KL_User said:


> Hi Rahul,
> 
> Sorry to hear about your circumstances but I hope that things will get better soon !
> 
> ...


can you share some tips then ?


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## anj1976 (Apr 24, 2008)

Hi Rahul

Few tips for your wife, ask her to apply at night, follow up the next afternoon, call the consultant and ask what next, wehre does she fail to qualify. it isnt just the AU experience, they usually look for references, Australia is a country of migrants, they understand how each person has to fight for first job, every consultant my husband met said the same thing, we know you must be struggling for that first break but if you are well dressed, presentable, speak well with a clear dialect you can crack any interview. My husband made sure he went in formals for each interview, he has attended two till now and both look promising. the employers gave a good review to the consultant and she called back immediately to tell him she is scheduling another interview with another company soon. they see how confident you are, how you present yourself and how well you know your job.

if she still does not get anything, check gumtree, there are voluntary jobs, she can take them up for a few months, get an experience certificate and apply afresh.


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## rahulsingh (Dec 13, 2010)

anj1976 said:


> Hi Rahul
> 
> Few tips for your wife, ask her to apply at night, follow up the next afternoon, call the consultant and ask what next, wehre does she fail to qualify. it isnt just the AU experience, they usually look for references, Australia is a country of migrants, they understand how each person has to fight for first job, every consultant my husband met said the same thing, we know you must be struggling for that first break but if you are well dressed, presentable, speak well with a clear dialect you can crack any interview. My husband made sure he went in formals for each interview, he has attended two till now and both look promising. the employers gave a good review to the consultant and she called back immediately to tell him she is scheduling another interview with another company soon. they see how confident you are, how you present yourself and how well you know your job.
> 
> if she still does not get anything, check gumtree, there are voluntary jobs, she can take them up for a few months, get an experience certificate and apply afresh.



Hi Guys,

Now my wife has changed the way she was searching for the job. Overall it looks positive & we are hoping for the best. 
Thanks a lot for your support & guidance. That’s what makes this forum so useful... 

Regards,
Rahul.


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## aliwish83 (Nov 19, 2008)

Hi there

While I dont doubt your experience, I can say that as a native English speaker with excellent qualifications and experience, my partner also found it difficult to get a job. He was told repeatedly that it was down to his lack of Australian experience. I dont think this is an issue that only affects non native speakers. I think it is an easy excuse for firms to use when they dont want to hire you and is not always about where you come from or what you sound like.

Ali


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## anj1976 (Apr 24, 2008)

no i spoke to a consultant and he confirmed that the companies want to hire people who have references and they do call for reference check. and they do want to make sure you know the work culture.


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## Dhawal (Oct 29, 2010)

anj1976 said:


> Hi when you say people who have references do you mean references from overseas as well or only for references within australia?


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## anj1976 (Apr 24, 2008)

within AU


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## loadrunner (Feb 18, 2011)

In my wife's case, the consultant spoke to the references provided who are there in India and US. So it depends.


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## oz_sg10 (Aug 31, 2010)

You are right. For myself and my wife too, the companies accepted overseas references. The only issue in some cases was the reachability of the references due to the time differences. After several attempts, these people were sent emails and were asked to complete a reference form.

I have noticed that some companies do not even release offers without getting responses from references.




loadrunner said:


> In my wife's case, the consultant spoke to the references provided who are there in India and US. So it depends.


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## imrancrest (Apr 12, 2011)

To my point of view , every one should try their best until they succeed . Rather blaming on the circumstances , one needs to find a way out in getting a job . 

I understand that non-native english speakers find a hard time getting a job . 
First of all australia has less software jobs compared to US . 
Many software jobs in australia are not pure technical as in India and are more business oriented . Most of hardcore technical development are outsourced to India and business part of project is managed in Australia . So one needs to be excellent in communication skills and thats the reason why they need local experience . 

Myself working in India and I have seen many software professionals have a tough time communicating with clients . 
So I would advice every non-native english speakers to improve communication skills everyday as it doesnt come over night . I do try to improve every day . Keep trying , good luck every one . 

If you dont get a full time job , you can get some contract job for local exp and then move later .My sister did the same .
I am hoping to land there within 2 yrs from now .


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## pcrial (Sep 27, 2010)

*Don't take "No" for an answer*



imrancrest said:


> To my point of view , every one should try their best until they succeed . Rather blaming on the circumstances , one needs to find a way out in getting a job .
> 
> I understand that non-native english speakers find a hard time getting a job .
> First of all australia has less software jobs compared to US .
> ...


We are surrounded by nay-Sayers. No matter what you are trying to do, there will be those who say, "you can't do that because, you don't have enough training, because you don't have enough years of experience, or because..."

Never listen to the nay-Sayers, because if you have made up your mind to do something, there is nothing as powerful as a made-up-mind. When someone says "NO" to your job application, it means nothing. In fact, success requires "NO" become our vitamins. The more times we are told "NO" the more likely we will accomplish our goal. Yes, after the 99th or higher count NO, if we are still persistent, we begin to figure out the reason for the NO.

The reason for the NO is secret, and almost never will you learn the reason. Earlier in my life, I found myself with four children and a wife as dependents, and I wasn't earning enough money to support my family. I had talked to my boss about a raise, and my boss said "you are already at the top of your profession, so the company is not willing to pay more for your job." An older trusted friend asked, "is there anyone at the company that earns more than you?" I replied, "of course, at the next level above me." So my friend suggested, "go apply for a job at the next level in your field."

I followed my older friend's advice, and got the job, my salary doubled.

My older friend and I were talking, and he said, "the problem never was that your company wouldn't pay more, the problem is your company wouldn't pay you more." He continued, "once a company becomes accustomed to dictating your wage, it is time to find another company. 

With persistence, using these techniques, I eventually ended up being a senior project manager. The huge crowd of people (nay-Sayers) were still there, but in some cases, began to complain to me that it was impossible for them to move up in employment the way I had.

The simple reason, the nay-Sayers didn't believe in themselves. If you believe in yourself, don't take "NO" for an answer.

Cheers,


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## Guest (Aug 19, 2011)

imrancrest said:


> To my point of view , every one should try their best until they succeed . Rather blaming on the circumstances , one needs to find a way out in getting a job .
> 
> I understand that non-native english speakers find a hard time getting a job .
> First of all australia has less software jobs compared to US .
> ...


The number of core programming jobs being posted on seek and careeone seem to defy the notion that most hardcore programming outsourced. We have an OZ client as well and they outsource only the parts that are directly related to the application we have sold to them. I have had the opportunity to speak with rather senior business managers in a big time business in Australia and they don't seem very open to any kind of outsourcing. There are enough programming jobs available, you just need to be hardcore technical to get them.

A job recruiter very recently griped to me "I ask a basic question to filter out people in the recruitment process. You won't believe the number of people who can't answer a basic question." And that seems to sum up the problem. Other than communication skills, it seems many people also don't have technical skills...


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## imrancrest (Apr 12, 2011)

leptokurtic said:


> The number of core programming jobs being posted on seek and careeone seem to defy the notion that most hardcore programming outsourced. We have an OZ client as well and they outsource only the parts that are directly related to the application we have sold to them. I have had the opportunity to speak with rather senior business managers in a big time business in Australia and they don't seem very open to any kind of outsourcing. There are enough programming jobs available, you just need to be hardcore technical to get them.
> 
> A job recruiter very recently griped to me "I ask a basic question to filter out people in the recruitment process. You won't believe the number of people who can't answer a basic question." And that seems to sum up the problem. Other than communication skills, it seems many people also don't have technical skills...


I agree that many people dont even have basic foundation of their skills . First of all , there are many bogus people who dont have skills but need a job . Second is that , many software professionals in India learn skills related to their project they work and not on their skills required for their career . Many people tend to stay in same project for many yrs but they dont have good technical skills . Many people like to do same routine job everyday ranther than challenging task everyday . There are some problems people why dont have strong technical skills . 
When they move out of project , they have a hard time .
Myself , I have changed 3 companies in 4 yrs and learnt good stuff . Infact my current project is routine and bad but I do my actual work only 4 hrs a day and rest I focus on improving my technical skills . But many dont do and thats the main reason .
Australian clients tend to call off shore people of their project to their location to work rather than recruiting new people . So that people come to onsite in aus work and then go back . If they recruit , it will be expensive for them .


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## Eva in Melbourne (Aug 19, 2011)

I have the same experience as your wife Rahul. My partner got several job offers in the first week we arrived (works in IT). And so, started working pretty soon after we settled down.

I have been searching for an appropriate job for the last 2 months. As your wife, I too have years of experience+all the needed diploma's (but all from abroad). Though I keep hearing everywhere, 'no sorry, no local experience' or 'sorry, no local references'. 

But it actually didn't surprised me. I mean, if I were an Australian employer and I had to choose :confused2: between me (non native English speaker) and a Australian citizen, with an identical resume/track record, I would too choose for the Australian citizen, because that's a safe choice + easy references to check.

It truly is harder to find something if there is no shortage in your sector. But hey, moving abroad is not choosing the easiest way to live, so you have to be a little bit more creative to gain goals.:boxing: 

Therefore I am starting an unpaid internship construction for 2 monts in a PR agency + I enrolled for a short course on one of the universities in Melbourne.

It's not perfect not getting paid for this period, but I see it as an investment.


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## stormgal (Sep 30, 2009)

imrancrest said:


> Many people like to do same routine job everyday ranther than challenging task everyday . There are some problems people why dont have strong technical skills .
> When they move out of project , they have a hard time .


+ 1 So true....


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