# Life in Veracruz?



## Chrisfranco

Hello! My husband and I are thinking of retirement to Mexico in 2-3 years. He's Mexican and been living in the US since the 1980's, and I'm originally from Massachusetts but have been in Southern Cal since 1995, and we live in LA. We've done some trips to see his family and friends in Michoacan and Mexico City. He's a been in sales and is a musician/composer, and I have years of political/non profit call center management experience, and a Masters in English. We're attracted to descriptions of Veracruz because of the vibrancy and cultural mix of the city, the access to varied natural environments, and proximity to the ocean. We'd be living on $2500 USD/month. Interesting in renting first, then buying, and would like some part time work. Would love any advice/info/comments from anyone living in or near Veracruz. Thanks so much.


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## Ken Wood

We do not live in Veracruz, but do have many friends there, both in the city and in Xalapa, a nearby city that is at ~1500 mtrs altitude. We love both areas, but, the combination of heat and humidity in Veracruz in the hot months, May/June, can be overwhelming. The beaches are nice enough, but be prepared for Gulf of Mexico water, which pales in comparison to the beautiful blue waters of the Pacific.

The subject of expats working in Mexico has been the topic of several thousand posts here on the forum by people more knowledgeable than I, so I shall withhold comment and simply suggest a search of previous posts.


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## Longford

Chrisfranco said:


> Hello! My husband and I are thinking of retirement to Mexico in 2-3 years. He's Mexican and been living in the US since the 1980's, and I'm originally from Massachusetts but have been in Southern Cal since 1995, and we live in LA. We've done some trips to see his family and friends in Michoacan and Mexico City. He's a been in sales and is a musician/composer, and I have years of political/non profit call center management experience, and a Masters in English. We're attracted to descriptions of Veracruz because of the vibrancy and cultural mix of the city, the access to varied natural environments, and proximity to the ocean. We'd be living on $2500 USD/month. Interesting in renting first, then buying, and would like some part time work. Would love any advice/info/comments from anyone living in or near Veracruz. Thanks so much.


:welcome:

Welcome to the Forum!

I like Veracruz very much, but I think most people from the USA and Canada whom I know or have met and who've visited Veracruz don't like it all that much. I find it to be a unique-in-Mexico environment/experience. Your mind-set is a good one ... when you suggest you will rent before possibly purchasing a place to live. 

But before you spend too much time researching life in Veracruz, confirm, first, that the two of you will meet the requirements of the relatively new Mexican immigration regulations which have minimum monthly income standards to be met. My first thoughts are that if your husband is a citizen under Mexican law then only you will be required to apply for a visa to reside in the country and demonstrate that you meet the income requirements. There are various complications and 'fine print' and you'll want to carefully read and understand how INM will treat you both.

Regarding the work issue: Generally, the outlook probably is not good for you, but your husband shouldn't face any restrictions. You will need specific permission from the government to work and that permission will be written into your residency visa. 

The Masters in English ought to qualify you for some teaching, possibly at one of the universities. English language schools/classes in Veracruz, otherwise, don't offer much in the way of wages. There's a headquarters for the national oil company, PEMEX in Veracruz and business English courses are sometimes offered to management-level personnel. A private language institute typically provides this outsourced training. Paid employment with NGOs or community charitable organizations may be a challenge to find because of restrictions on the participation of foreigners in certain fields. 

Any of these potential employment opportunities will be very difficult to learn about or secure before you'd make the move there. It's typical for employers in Mexico to want to see you standing/sitting in front of them when they discuss jobs. And networking/word of mouth once you're there will probably be the best source of leads to possible employment. 

As for the husband: Music is an important part of the life/enjoyment in Veracruz. There may be the possibility of work for him once he meets the people involved in the scene locally.

Best of luck with your research and planning. 

Once again, Welcome! :clap2:


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## TundraGreen

Longford said:


> :welcome:
> 
> Welcome to the Forum!
> 
> …
> 
> Regarding the work issue: Generally, the outlook probably is not good for you, but your husband shouldn't face any restrictions. You will need specific permission from the government to work and that permission will be written into your residency visa.
> 
> …
> Once again, Welcome! :clap2:


The only thing I would add to Longford's response is regarding permission to work. Apparently under the new rules, if you obtain permanent residency status, you are allowed to work. And the income the original poster mentioned is close to the level required to qualify the non-citizen for a permanent residence visa. You still have to find a job though, and Longford's comments on that are on the mark.


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## AlanMexicali

Longford said:


> :welcome:
> 
> Welcome to the Forum!
> 
> I like Veracruz very much, but I think most people from the USA and Canada whom I know or have met and who've visited Veracruz don't like it all that much. I find it to be a unique-in-Mexico environment/experience. Your mind-set is a good one ... when you suggest you will rent before possibly purchasing a place to live.
> 
> But before you spend too much time researching life in Veracruz, confirm, first, that the two of you will meet the requirements of the relatively new Mexican immigration regulations which have minimum monthly income standards to be met. My first thoughts are that if your husband is a citizen under Mexican law then only you will be required to apply for a visa to reside in the country and demonstrate that you meet the income requirements. There are various complications and 'fine print' and you'll want to carefully read and understand how INM will treat you both.
> 
> Regarding the work issue: Generally, the outlook probably is not good for you, but your husband shouldn't face any restrictions. You will need specific permission from the government to work and that permission will be written into your residency visa.
> 
> The Masters in English ought to qualify you for some teaching, possibly at one of the universities. English language schools/classes in Veracruz, otherwise, don't offer much in the way of wages. There's a headquarters for the national oil company, PEMEX in Veracruz and business English courses are sometimes offered to management-level personnel. A private language institute typically provides this outsourced training. Paid employment with NGOs or community charitable organizations may be a challenge to find because of restrictions on the participation of foreigners in certain fields.
> 
> Any of these potential employment opportunities will be very difficult to learn about or secure before you'd make the move there. It's typical for employers in Mexico to want to see you standing/sitting in front of them when they discuss jobs. And networking/word of mouth once you're there will probably be the best source of leads to possible employment.
> 
> As for the husband: Music is an important part of the life/enjoyment in Veracruz. There may be the possibility of work for him once he meets the people involved in the scene locally.
> 
> Best of luck with your research and planning.
> 
> Once again, Welcome! :clap2:


If her husband is a Mexican National she can come in on an FMM and tramite at the local INM office to Residente Temporal under Vínculo Familiar with permission to work, no financials and no need to go to a Mexican Consular in the US. 

She will need documents to prove everything: state apostille US marriage license, original birth certificate, state apostille last divorce decree and an CFE bill with an address etc.. Alan


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## tepetapan

Veracruz city is my favorite place to weekend and even vacation. My wife and i live about 2.5 hours south of Veracruz and someone is up there at least once a month if not once a week. 
The music and culture is hard to beat and there is everything you desire in town. From Home Depot to Costco to KFC and Pizza Hut. 
Sure it get a bits warm in the spring and sometimes summer but it is part of the city and one of the reasons the nightlife is so much fun.
Since your husband is a Mexican National he does not need to show anything but proof of Nationality. The income you stated is more than enough to get settled and then work your way through to permanent resident. He can start work upon arrival, you will need to get the paperwork done first.


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## Hound Dog

[_QUOTE=Ken Wood;1030572]We do not live in Veracruz, but do have many friends there, both in the city and in Xalapa, a nearby city that is at ~1500 mtrs altitude. We love both areas, but, the combination of heat and humidity in Veracruz in the hot months, May/June, can be overwhelming. *The beaches are nice enough, but be prepared for Gulf of Mexico water, which pales in comparison to the beautiful blue waters of the Pacific.*

The subject of expats working in Mexico has been the topic of several thousand posts here on the forum by people more knowledgeable than I, so I shall withhold comment and simply suggest a search of previous posts.[/QUOTE]_

Veracruz is a great town but somewhat unique. Yes, the heat and humidity there are challenging and we are retirees in Mexico for the past 12 years who live in both Highland Jalisco and Highland Chiapas, finding the coastal climates in Mexico (excluding Northern Baja) unpleasant. The heat and humidity in Veracruz City are a bit much whereas the climate in Jalapa is cooler but, in my experienced, cursed with _chipi-chipi._ Otherwise a nice city with many fine attributes. 

This may not be important to you since you plan to live in Mexico near Veracruz, but I must take exception to Ken Wood´s comparison of Gulf of Mexico waters with the Pacific. The Gulf is muddy, unpleasant, and quite polluted at Veracruz and, in fact murky and uninteresting all along the Gulf Coast of Mexico from Texas to northeast of Campeche to Progeso, Yucatan but the Gulf Coast around Progreso and eastward is characterized by splendid white beaches and beautiful aquamarine waters. Elsewhere on the Gulf, from Northwest Florida starting at the Alabama line and extending beyond Panama City,one would find the most pristine pure white beaches fronting some of the most beautiful crystal clear aquamarine waters in the world and most of the Florida Gulf Coast and the Mexican Gulf Coast from Progreso eastward to Isla Holbox present seas of extraordinary beauty and clarity (for the most part) embraced by those beautiful white beaches. 

Clearly, Ken Wood has only limited information about the Guf of Mexico and should refrain from posing as an expert on the region. However, he does seem to have the good sense to praise Japala, probably the best city in Veracruz State if it weren´t for that Chipi-Chipi hanging around.


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## tepetapan

Hound Dog said:


> [_QUOTE=Ken Wood;1030572]We do not live in Veracruz, but do have many friends there, both in the city and in Xalapa, a nearby city that is at ~1500 mtrs altitude. We love both areas, but, the combination of heat and humidity in Veracruz in the hot months, May/June, can be overwhelming. *The beaches are nice enough, but be prepared for Gulf of Mexico water, which pales in comparison to the beautiful blue waters of the Pacific.*
> 
> The subject of expats working in Mexico has been the topic of several thousand posts here on the forum by people more knowledgeable than I, so I shall withhold comment and simply suggest a search of previous posts._




Veracruz is a great town but somewhat unique. Yes, the heat and humidity there are challenging and we are retirees in Mexico for the past 12 years who live in both Highland Jalisco and Highland Chiapas, finding the coastal climates in Mexico (excluding Northern Baja) unpleasant.....................................
I must take exception to Ken Wood´s comparison of Gulf of Mexico waters with the Pacific. .................

Clearly, Ken Wood has only limited information about the Guf of Mexico and should refrain from posing as an expert on the region. However, he does seem to have the good sense to praise Japala, probably the best city in Veracruz State if it weren´t for that Chipi-Chipi hanging around.[/QUOTE]
HoundDog, you are quite the jester. Now YOU are the expert on Veracruz city. If you so choose to live in the mountains and see frost on occasion, that is your decision. For myself, I would never brag about waking up in a 45 degree house hoping for some sunshine to warm the floors. Your limited information is the same as all the others. You and others can talk the talk but few have ever walked the walk.


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## Longford

> HoundDog, you are quite the jester. Now YOU are the expert on Veracruz city. If you so choose to live in the mountains and see frost on occasion, that is your decision. For myself, I would never brag about waking up in a 45 degree house hoping for some sunshine to warm the floors. Your limited information is the same as all the others. You and others can talk the talk but few have ever walked the walk.


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## Detailman

Longford said:


> Elvis Presley - Hound Dog 1956 - YouTube


I am not into the discussion and can't make a comment on the areas but your sense of humour, in this case, was fantastic. I laughed until the tears starting to roll.

PS - Enjoy your comments HoundDog.


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## Chrisfranco

Thanks to everyone for your comments, very helpful. Actually, while the beach walks are great, the So Cal water itself isn't all that alluring either, also murky and some strange critters wash up on the beaches! Would be nice to be able to see them coming, but you can't. I don't swim here. Lots of fog in LA too, fondly referred to as "the marine layer."

Longford, what I'm not too clear on is why you say that while you like Veracruz, most Americans don't. Florida, with massive numbers of retirees, is pretty hot and humid. So is New Orleans. Veracruz City seems to have a lot going for it. Can you be a bit clearer on what's not to like? 

Are there towns on the outskirts of the city the would give one a more natural environment, but easy city access? What's a typical house rent? Also, if I had an internet source of income, like a web site or photo sales, would that count as "working in Mexico" and require gov approval?

Thanks again--very exciting to find this forum and so many informed players!


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## Hound Dog

In response to Tepetapan´s post about waking up in the cold house. This post written by an Alabama boy who is about to turn 71 and remembers the 1950s, before home air conditioning became commonplace, waking up at 3:00AM in the sticky heat of mid-summer sweating like a stuck pig and miserable as hell. Cold or even "three dog" nights are to be treasured and if it´s too chilly, I have a couple of warm blooded Xoloizquintlies (Mexican Hairless dogs) to sleep with me and keep me warm. 


Actually, in mid-January as I sit here in my office in Ajijic, Jalisco at 5,000 feet having just said good morning to my wife who is in San Cristóbal de Las Casas, Chiapas at 7,000 feet, it´s almost 10:00AM and I have two propane heaters blasting away and taking the night chill off of the air but at about this time I will open all the windows and retire to my garden to enjoy another day in the splendid sunshine with a temperature of about 80 degrees fahrenheit and that´s the weather just about every day almost all year round at Lake Chapala where, yes it´s true, it normally only rains at night and then only from June to September - normally in short, refreshing outbursts.  Since I have a garden full of citrus trees and colorful bougainvillea all of which have been in this garden for over 40 years and would by highly stressed out or dead if we ever had frost here, I think my assessment that there is never frost here or at least hasn´t been any in the 12 years I´ve lived here, is correct. Certainly never even remotely a hard freeze. Soon I´ll be leaving Ajijic for San Cristóbal where there is often frost and far more overcast and rainy weather than here at the lake because Highland Chiapas in that area gets its damp, rainy weather from the Gulf of Mexico. However, the weather is also splendid at 7,000 feet in Chiapas, especially from about February until the rainy season kicks in about mid-May and when it rains in the Chiapas Highlands, we are talking daily inundations, flooding, landslides, impassable roads on occasion and that sort of thing so time to head back to Lake Chapala for the summer and fall.

The reason I know a little bit about Veracruz State and Veracruz City is because, before we moved seasonally to Highland Chiapas six years ago since, despite the great weather at Lake Chapala, the north shore of the lake with its large colony of expats can become a trial over time and a periodic change of scene seemed a good idea. Back in 2005, we identified several places in Mexico far from the lake where we thought we might like to live either permanently or seasonally and cities we looked into in Veracruz included Veracruz City and suburban Boca del Rio, Catemaco, the urban corridor from Orizaba to Córdoba and several charming towns on the periphery of Veracruz City. We also explored, in some depth, the possibility of living in Mérida, Yucatan and Oaxaca City, Oaxaca along with some beach towns on Oaxaca´s Pacific Coast. In the final anaysis, we chose San Cristóbal de Lasa Casas in the Chiapas Highlands because of its colonial charm and beauty and what we considered its interesting mixed population of Mestizo and Indigenous people (40% of the city´s population and a major presence there in varying colorful costumes) intermixed with a number of European expatriates. The town has a population of only about 130,000 but is quite sophisticated with many cultural advantages and good local cuisine. San Cristóbal also has the advantage of being centrally located in Southern Mexico for our various road trips to some of our favorite parts of Mexico from Oaxaca State to the Yucatan Peninsula to Veracruz State and it´s just a short drive from beautiful Guatemala. From San Cristóbal we can choose among the Pacific, the Gulf or the Caribbean for coastal escapes and that´s a great advantage. 

While we like both Veracruz City and Mérida and thoroughly enjoy the night life, music, dancing and cultural events, in the central plazas of the these two charming cities, the heat and humidity in those towns was just a bit too much for us. To understand that you need to know that my wife was raised in Paris and first came to North America for a teaching job in Mobile on the Gulf Coast. I was living in Mobile at the time and had grown up around all that heat and humidity so I liked living in a charming old Gulf Coast city such as Mobile but, while my wife adjusted well to that city, especially with its mostly pleasant winters, she found the oppressive heat and humidity of the summers there and the absolute necessity of having air conditioning in one´s home to be challenging so we moved to cool and sunny (sometimes) San Francisco. My wife never forgot those Mobile summers and the final straw is when we went to Mérida to househunt in November, 2005 and it was hot and sticky somewhere in the 90s with 95 degree humidity and, after a day of looking at various depressing, overpriced houses for sale, we returned to the B&B we were staying at in the historic center and asked the proprietor just when it cooled off there. His response was, that was as good as the weather gets in Mérida. We were out of there and in the Chiapas Highlands the next day. 

Now, to each his own. Many like the heat and humidity and in no way am I suggesting that there is anything wrong with that. In fact, were it just up to me with my background of growing up on the Alabama Gulf Coast, I might live in Boca del Rio or the Gulf Coast beach towns in Northern Yucatan State today or even a Oaxaca beach area such as Huatulco but my wife will have none of that so I can live with the climate on the Mexican Highland Plateau - for me, at least, the best all season climate in all of North America with parts of Coastal California a close second. I´m pleased not everyone feels that way as it would be too crowded here if we all liked living in the same place.


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## VeracruzGuy

*Views from Veracruz*

As a tour supplier specializing in Veracruz vacation travel, I have had the opportunity to scout out many places within this east coast Mexico state. For many years, I had maintained an apartment in Catemaco (100 miles south of Veracruz port) and now have recently moved my operations to Boca del Rio (adjacent city to Veracruz). 

House Rentals - Veracruz / Boca del Rio
To give you an idea of the cost of renting, my newly built 2 bedroom apartment is approximately $500 USD/month. No, it is not on the ocean but is located only blocks away from a huge indoor mall (Sears), coffee shops, Sam's Club, Walmart, Home Depot, restaurants, and a bike ride or short taxi ride distance from the ocean. If you would like to look for a place to rent in the Veracruz/Boca del Rio area, I would be happy to pass on the name of the realtor (they also show you rental houses too) that I secured to find my place. FYI: I personally know a doctor who was looking to rent his house in Boca del Rio. I would have to find out if it was still available. It has 3 bedrooms, a 1 car garage, and is only 2 blocks from the ocean @ $500 - $600 USD/month. 

House Rentals - Catemaco
Talk to Gene at a place called, Tepetapan. He has nice bungalows in a walled compound just outside the town. 

Weather -
I am from Chicago and I can tell you (because I check the weather each day on my desk top for both locations) that this past summer, there were many days where Chicago was much hotter than the city of Veracruz. However, on most summer days, they were about equal in temperature and humidity too. 

The coastal cities of Veracruz do sometimes get these high winds called, Nortes. They can last a day or two or three. Hurricanes are always a possibility. 

Water Quality - 
Just off the coast of Veracruz port, there are 23 protected coral reefs that form part of the Veracruz National Reef System. I have snorkeled and gone diving there and it's true, Gulf of Mexico water is not the clear turquoise found in the Caribbean but the coral reefs there stand out quite well. If you do not like the beaches in the city, then 50 minutes north, hang out in the small seaside town of Chachalacas. Another FYI - I know a person who is selling a house there in town. A little further north, there are some other great hide-a-way beaches as well. These can be great day trips. 

My View from Veracruz - 
I personally like that you rarely see other foreigners. Case in point - I had 2 clients from California for a 7 day vacation. This couple told me that every year for the last 9 years, they travel to a new area of Mexico. Well, on the 4th day of their Veracruz vacation, they told me that there was something different about this place as compared to all the other places they have been to in Mexico. They continued by telling me that they could not get over the fact that at every place they had been to so far, many of the local people were always staring at them. I then asked my clients a question - "How many other foreign tourists have you seen since the start of your trip?" They thought for a moment and then realized, NONE. I then patted them on the back and stated, "Isn't it nice for a change that the local people are not always looking at you, the "rich" tourist, with dollar signs in their eyes, but instead, only with curiosity. 

If you want to mingle with other expats, you won't find tons of them hanging out here and you probably would not like it in Veracruz. However, if you like the idea of blending in with the local culture, learning there ways, and enjoying their celebrations, then this place may just be the ticket for you. 

Hey, if you would like more insight and have more questions, just give me a holler. I might know the answer. And if I don't know, I probably know someone who is native to Veracruz and does know. 

Best recommendation I can give you is this - come and visit, kick the tires (so to speak), and decide if this place is right for you. 

If you do visit and I am in town, perhaps we can meet for some excellent Veracruz home-grown coffee. 

Para Sevirle -


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## Hound Dog

That wassa great post Veracruz Guyv and I thinkyour tiwn i EL Rio ma be the best place to settle there but diving near Veracruz? Perhaps observing m000ud aND TURRDS?


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## Longford

Chrisfranco said:


> Longford, what I'm not too clear on is why you say that while you like Veracruz, most Americans don't. Florida, with massive numbers of retirees, is pretty hot and humid. So is New Orleans. Veracruz City seems to have a lot going for it. Can you be a bit clearer on what's not to like?


Each part of Mexico has it's own distinct personality and culture. Veracruz's (city) is probably most often discribed by Mexicans and expats alike as _brusque_. The language and mannerisms, the behavior of many of the residents can be strong and direct. And it's not a city where expats will likely find the quality and attractiveness of (tourist) amenities similar to many other places they visit. The appearance of much of the city, particularly the historic center, is a bit run-down and neglected. A comparison with the flavor of many parts of New Orleans wouldn't be too far off the mark. Being a major industrial port, the beaches, the water quality of off the beaches, is amongst the worst in Mexico and many foriegn tourists expect to enjoy the water when they vacation in Mexico. Overall, I don't find the variety of restaurant food in Veracruz very inviting. But the "negatives" to other foreigners are probably what attracts me to Veracruz. It's 'rough around the edges' style. The oftentimes off-putting directness. The more time one spends living and/or traveling in Mexico at a pace and style Mexicans vacation and the city becomes more attractive and appreciated. I don't find it a location for 'thin skin' tourists/expats unwilling to accept Mexico for what it is ... imperfect.


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## joaquinx

Veracruz is more Mexican than beans. It is a tourist city, but only for Mexicans. Thus it retains a Mexican flavor and has yet been "internationalized" by foreign tourists. It's the Gulf whose waters are refreshed by rivers filled with silt that make the waters murky. It's not the Mayan Riviera nor is it the west coast. It is for those people who want to see Mexico in its unvarnished non-internationalized form. Longford mentions that the restaurant food in not very inviting and for good reason. Mexicans come for the seafood and seafood is what they get. A la Veracruzana.


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## Longford

joaquinx said:


> It's the Gulf whose waters are refreshed by rivers filled with silt that make the waters murky.


You're being overly generous. If government testing results are to be believed, the waters off the beaches at Veracruz are amongst the most polluted and bacertia-laden of any in the nation. But, yes, the constant ship traffic churns all the gunk and contamination sitting on the bottom ... so that it floats closer to the top. 



> It is for those people who want to see Mexico in its unvarnished non-internationalized form.


I know more Mexicans who dislike visiting Veracruz than like it.  More would probably favor visiting Acapulco. (a destination I also enjoy) But the city, Veracruz, does draw a lot of it's visitors, surprising to me, from Monterrey, and then logically also from Puebla and the D.F. And, yes, although there are some nicer higher-end hotels, most of what one finds is "Mexican tourist class" properties which many international visitors will probably not find to their liking. 



> Longford mentions that the restaurant food in not very inviting and for good reason. Mexicans come for the seafood and seafood is what they get. A la Veracruzana.


The "seafood" in the restaurants comes, largely, from Alvarado ... to the south, because the waters at Veracruz and Boca del Rio are polluted to a level it's not thought safe to eat the catch from those places. There are exceptions, of course. Trips to Boca del Rio for seafood dinners are hugely popular.


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## TundraGreen

joaquinx said:


> Veracruz is more Mexican than beans. It is a tourist city, but only for Mexicans. Thus it retains a Mexican flavor and has yet been "internationalized" by foreign tourists. It's the Gulf whose waters are refreshed by rivers filled with silt that make the waters murky. It's not the Mayan Riviera nor is it the west coast. It is for those people who want to see Mexico in its unvarnished non-internationalized form. Longford mentions that the restaurant food in not very inviting and for good reason. Mexicans come for the seafood and seafood is what they get. A la Veracruzana.


Veracruz has been on my list of places to visit. You are making it sound very attractive (and I am not being facetious).


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## joaquinx

Longford said:


> You're being overly generous. If government testing results are to be believed, the waters off the beaches at Veracruz are amongst the most polluted and bacertia-laden of any in the nation. But, yes, the constant ship traffic churns all the gunk and contamination sitting on the bottom ... so that it floats closer to the top. .


Your overly argumentive as I was talking about the waters of the Gulf which include areas other than Veracruz.




Longford said:


> I know more Mexicans who dislike visiting Veracruz than like it.  More would probably favor visiting Acapulco. (a destination I also enjoy) But the city, Veracruz, does draw a lot of it's visitors, surprising to me, from Monterrey, and then logically also from Puebla and the D.F. And, yes, although there are some nicer higher-end hotels, most of what one finds is "Mexican tourist class" properties which many international visitors will probably not find to their liking.


It still remains more Mexican than foreign.




Longford said:


> The "seafood" in the restaurants comes, largely, from Alvarado ... to the south, because the waters at Veracruz and Boca del Rio are polluted to a level it's not thought safe to eat the catch from those places. There are exceptions, of course. Trips to Boca del Rio for seafood dinners are hugely popular.


Of course it comes from Alvarado.


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## Hound Dog

[
Of course it (the seafood) comes from Alvarado(and not the environs of the Veracruz port).

It is most satifying to realize those fat little cucarachas del Mar never venture far from where they were conceived.

When my darlin´ wife was being raised in the 1950s and spending her summers on the shores of Arcachon Bay on the Atlantic Coast of France, her granddad was a notedly successful fisherman who had his best source of the most fabulous, fat and succulent shrimp but he always kept his fishing hole a secret. Then , one day, he took the kids down to his secret fishing hole on Arcachon Bay and there the untreated sewage was flowing direcly ino the bay being sucked up by those delicious shrimp. Hey, don´t worry about where those shrimp you are enjoying got their food, They are about to rejoin the food chain, Adios amigos - see you later for sure.


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## Longford

joaquinx said:


> Your overly argumentive as I was talking about the waters of the Gulf which include areas other than Veracruz.


I'd hardly call the comments "argumentative," especially so when you've ventured off-topic. The discussion has been about the port city of Veracruz ... if I'm recalling correctly. :ranger: 

I also don't see anyone suggesting Veracruz attracts more foreigners than Mexicans.  And, another "but," Alvarado is a distance from both Veracruz and Boca del Rio; relatively few readers will understand that pollution of the waters has caused restaurants don't usually serve locally-caught seafood. :boxing:


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## Hound Dog

Longford said:


> Each part of Mexico has it's own distinct personality and culture. Veracruz's (city) is probably most often discribed by Mexicans and expats alike as _brusque_. The language and mannerisms, the behavior of many of the residents can be strong and direct. And it's not a city where expats will likely find the quality and attractiveness of (tourist) amenities similar to many other places they visit. The appearance of much of the city, particularly the historic center, is a bit run-down and neglected. A comparison with the flavor of many parts of New Orleans wouldn't be too far off the mark. Being a major industrial port, the beaches, the water quality of off the beaches, is amongst the worst in Mexico and many foriegn tourists expect to enjoy the water when they vacation in Mexico. Overall, I don't find the variety of restaurant food in Veracruz very inviting. But the "negatives" to other foreigners are probably what attracts me to Veracruz. It's 'rough around the edges' style. The oftentimes off-putting directness. The more time one spends living and/or traveling in Mexico at a pace and style Mexicans vacation and the city becomes more attractive and appreciated. I don't find it a location for 'thin skin' tourists/expats unwilling to accept Mexico for what it is ... imperfect.


An adept descripion of Veracruz City, Longford. I don´t want to try to put words in your mouth but this is the way I see both places. Your comparison to New Orleans is spot on in my opinion. Ancient run down, regional towns with severe climates on or near fettid and muddy seas with beaches of little interest to vacationers seeking beach umbrellas and white sand. Both strategically important to European colonists, both with intriguing if somewhat violent and self-centered cultures; both with unique local cusiines which one may or may not find enticing. I like both, somewhat declining cities but I would live full time in either swampland. 

I had a good friend with whom I attended high school in the 1950s who retired to New Orleans in about 2000, the same year I retired to Mexico. He asked me; "What,are you nuts; you don´t speak Spanish and they´ll cut your head off!" I responded that those seemed like self-cancelling problems. So he moved to New Orlean´s famous Garden District back in 2001 but found, over time, that you can eat only so much jambalaya and stand only so much of that New Orleans climate and social discord so he´s back living on Bon Secour Bay in Alabama and Dawg is still in Mexico.

I sure do like Veracruzano and New Orleans food but I can go to either place once in a while for that. No need to settle down in either town for an occasional repast.


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## mickisue1

Longford said:


> But the "negatives" to other foreigners are probably what attracts me to Veracruz. It's 'rough around the edges' style. The oftentimes off-putting directness. The more time one spends living and/or traveling in Mexico at a pace and style Mexicans vacation and the city becomes more attractive and appreciated. I don't find it a location for 'thin skin' tourists/expats unwilling to accept Mexico for what it is ... imperfect.


See? Spoken like a guy who now lives in...Chicago. Seems like the perfect definition of a Windy City person.

I kind of like that sort of behavior. Minnesota Nice gets old, when people who couldn't care less pretend that they do, because it's expected.

And then turn around and gossip.


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## q_vivar

I live up the hill from Veracruz about a 1.25 hr drive west on the autopista, just east of Cordoba. There aren't many foreigners here - I have made contact with 2 people here from the US that I found through this forum. I moved here in June, 2012. I am here with my husband who is Mexican and I don't speak much Spanish. However, I find everyone to be helpful when I am out on my own. Cordoba is busy but not crazy, pretty easy to negotiate by car and there seems to be plenty to do. There aren't many tourists. I live in a unidad and while my neighbors are in close proximity, it is generally quiet. The altitude (I think about 2,500 ft) keeps it cool and less humid than the coast - the summer is much more tolerable than where I lived in southern NJ. And we have a beautiful view of the volcano most days. For me, it's great living here.


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## Azuledos

I'd like to chime in with another endorsement of beautiful western Veracruz state. After much travel over many, many years thru all parts of Mexico, when it came time for us to decide where to put down our roots, everything, for us, pointed to the the small, unique cloud-forest bioregion along the eastern slopes at the southern end of the Sierra Madre Oriental. We're situated at about 3000 feet, so the climate here is warmer/drier than Orizaba or Jalapa, and a touch cooler than Córdoba. Yes, there's that _chipi-chipi_, but it's infrequent and we actually welcome living in a cloud on those few days it occurs. Most morning we wake up to sunny skies, and the past two winters have only put us in sweaters for less than a dozen days. Of course, we're from the Pacific Northwest, and would be sore-pressed to live in an area without clouds and sufficient rainfall to keep the creeks full and the landscape green & lush.

We purchased a home in Fortín de las Flores, between Orizaba and Córdoba, an hour and a half from Veracruz City. We're now in the throes of some house renovations, including building a rooftop _mirador_ with an awe-inspiring vista of snow-capped 18,000' Citlaltépetl to the northwest. The cities on either side of us have everything one needs, including some big-box stores, and nowhere near the traffic of Jalapa or Puebla. We've found good medical care. This is not an area often visited by extranjeros, and tourism is not important to the economy. However, there is a growing interest in eco-tourism, as the area is great for outdoor adventure sports, Not too many expats here, and we moved here expecting to settle in a typical Mexican community. So far, we have been welcomed everywhere by smiling faces and caring and helpful neighbors. And the evenings in the central park are a recurring pleasure in this friendly little town which we now call home, amongst the flowers the area is known for.


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## q_vivar

Azuledos said:


> I'd like to chime in with another endorsement of beautiful western Veracruz state. After much travel over many, many years thru all parts of Mexico, when it came time for us to decide where to put down our roots, everything, for us, pointed to the the small, unique cloud-forest bioregion along the eastern slopes at the southern end of the Sierra Madre Oriental. We're situated at about 3000 feet, so the climate here is warmer/drier than Orizaba or Jalapa, and a touch cooler than Córdoba. Yes, there's that _chipi-chipi_, but it's infrequent and we actually welcome living in a cloud on those few days it occurs. Most morning we wake up to sunny skies, and the past two winters have only put us in sweaters for less than a dozen days. Of course, we're from the Pacific Northwest, and would be sore-pressed to live in an area without clouds and sufficient rainfall to keep the creeks full and the landscape green & lush.
> 
> We purchased a home in Fortín de las Flores, between Orizaba and Córdoba, an hour and a half from Veracruz City. We're now in the throes of some house renovations, including building a rooftop _mirador_ with an awe-inspiring vista of snow-capped 18,000' Citlaltépetl to the northwest. The cities on either side of us have everything one needs, including some big-box stores, and nowhere near the traffic of Jalapa or Puebla. We've found good medical care. This is not an area often visited by extranjeros, and tourism is not important to the economy. However, there is a growing interest in eco-tourism, as the area is great for outdoor adventure sports, Not too many expats here, and we moved here expecting to settle in a typical Mexican community. So far, we have been welcomed everywhere by smiling faces and caring and helpful neighbors. And the evenings in the central park are a recurring pleasure in this friendly little town which we now call home, amongst the flowers the area is known for.


Yes I would agree Fortin is nice - we just looked at a house there to buy that was beautiful inside, but ended up buying a place this week in a more rural location in Amatlan de los Reyes.


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