# Need advice on potentially dangerous situation



## mexco (Apr 19, 2017)

Hi guys,

I really need your advice on how to resolve a potentially dangerous situation.

So here's my situation:

I'm thinking of purchasing a small B&B (bed and breakfast) near Hermosillo, Sonora. It's a "For-Sales-By-Owner" property, and the owner is currently living in the States. I'm currently in the States also.

I've been in touch with the owner via phone and email for the past 3 days. I made him an all-cash offer, and he has accepted it. However, when I brought up the subject of using "Escrow" or a lawyer to facilitate our transaction, he has insisted that we don't need it.

He told me that all we need is to draw up an agreement/contract ourselves (something that we can both agree on) and get it notarized here in the States. Then I'll make my cash payment. After that, we will both go down to Mexico and finalize the transaction.

I've already agreed to his proposal.. But last night, it just hit me -- This is just plain crazy!! I mean.. He sounded like a very honest and nice person on the phone.. just a very believable person.. But can I trust him not to get my money and just run away??? We're talking about around 400K in cash here! How can I not to do due diligence?

I am really the trusting, gullible type.. And I am getting a extremely nervous here. He told me that the B&B is registered under his wife's name. And given the nature, complexity of the deal, and the large sum involved, I am getting extremely uncomfortable with this situation.

At this point, I feel I must get a 3rd-party professional involved.

What do you guys think? On one hand, he struck me as a very honest and trustworthy person (I've done some research on his background)... On the other hand, in this day and age, Can you really trust anyone? Especially this kind of money??

Please advise as I'm getting extremely jittery and nervous. Thanks!


----------



## Zorro2017 (Jan 9, 2017)

All business transactions in Mexico involving real estate should go through a Mexican notary to investigate any judgements or liens, etc against the property or owner. If he balks then the sniff test fails.


----------



## TurtleToo (Aug 23, 2013)

_"He told me that all we need is to draw up an agreement/contract ourselves (something that we can both agree on) and get it notarized here in the States. Then I'll make my cash payment. After that, we will both go down to Mexico and finalize the transaction." _

Give him the money, and THEN finalize the deal? No! Absolutely not.

Write your own contract? For buying real estate in a foreign country? And just hope that it stands up under Mexican law? No! Simple common sense should tell you that this is a very bad idea.

And Zorro is right: what if there are liens or mortgages or undisclosed title claims against the property? Protect yourself and do this the conventional way. If you don't, you might get lucky and have it all work out--but you might lose everything.


----------



## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

I agree. The OP (Original Poster) would be crazy to buy property without having the transaction handled by a registered Notario Publico in the municipalidad where the property is located. If, by chance, it is on ejido land, even more care is required. I believe a Notario Publico is the only one that can register the paperwork with the government and get them to issue a new "deed" in the buyer's name.

An added thought: Notario Publicos do not typically get involved in holding the cash in the way that an escrow company would in the US. So an alternative strategy is in order. First the OP goes to Mexico with the seller and has a compraventa (sales contract) drawn up by a Notario Publico. The Notario Publico does due diligence investigating the title. Then the buyer and seller both sign the escritura (title) and the buyer hands the cash to the seller in exchange for the keys. After the transfer of keys and cash, the Notario Publico files the escritura with the government and eventually (three to six months later) they deliver a registered copy to the buyer. That is the way it generally works in Mexico.

And incidentally, a non-Mexican buying property will have to get the compraventa approved by the Secretario de Relaciones Exteriores as a separate step.

Also, the buyer gets to pick the Notario Publico. Do not use one suggested by, and possibly related to the seller. I visited the office of several Notario Publicos and picked the one that seemed most receptive to me. Probably a better plan would be to get a recommendation from some third parties in Hermosillo, people unconnected to the seller.


----------



## lagoloo (Apr 12, 2011)

I'm not saying that the seller IS one, but have you ever met an UNPERSONABLE con artist?

This deal sounds smelly from the get go. Go to Mexico and do this the conventional way and keep your money in your own hands until the title is in your name.


----------



## sparks (Jun 17, 2007)

Not only all those other NO's ...... why Hermosillo?? No gringos want to vacation there


----------



## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

lagoloo said:


> I'm not saying that the seller IS one, but have you ever met an UNPERSONABLE con artist?
> 
> This deal sounds smelly from the get go. Go to Mexico and do this the conventional way and keep your money in your own hands until the title is in your name.


My thought also. Either: a) the seller and her husband are incredibly naive and have no idea how property is transferred in Mexico. This is possible if she inherited the property, in which case it might not even be in her name. Or: b) He is a con artist.

The "contract" he is referring to would be completely useless. It could not be used in Mexico to enforce a property transfer. A Mexican court would not recognize it in any way, shape or form. And it could not be enforced in a US court. A US court would have no way to effect a transfer in Mexico. And in a US court you would have difficulty getting a judgement to get your money back, since the court would have to rule based on things that did or did not occur in Mexico.


----------



## perropedorro (Mar 19, 2016)

mexco said:


> He told me that the B&B is registered under his wife's name. And given the nature, complexity of the deal, and the large sum involved, I am getting extremely uncomfortable with this situation.
> 
> At this point, I feel I must get a 3rd-party professional involved.
> 
> ...


This proposal reeks on multiple levels, so bad I wouldn't go near it. In agreement with others here on the forum, with 400K bucks on the line.... you need a professional if you're at all serious.


----------



## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

I apologize for spreading my response over so many posts. This deal is so far out that it takes several tries to think of all the issues with it.

For the benefit of the Original Poster, a Notario Publico in Mexico is nothing like a notary public in the US. The names sound similar but that is the extent of the similarity. A Mexican notario publico is a senior lawyer, licensed by the government to handle property transactions.


----------



## horseshoe846 (Feb 8, 2017)

When we purchased our house going on four years now we had a realtor (big franchise name) show us perhaps 100 houses. We chose one which he actually had the listing for. We interviewed perhaps three notaries and ended up going with a notary the realtor preferred. If I'm not mistaken the notary performed what in the US would amount to a title search, as well as validating that there were no liens outstanding.

Not only would I use a notary if I purchased property in Mexico, If I were purchasing a business I would consider having Mexican accountant look over 'the books'. A local professional should also be able to tell you if the price is 'fair'.


----------



## lagoloo (Apr 12, 2011)

TundraGreen said:


> I apologize for spreading my response over so many posts. This deal is so far out that it takes several tries to think of all the issues with it.
> 
> For the benefit of the Original Poster, a Notario Publico in Mexico is nothing like a notary public in the US. The names sound similar but that is the extent of the similarity. A Mexican notario publico is a senior lawyer, licensed by the government to handle property transactions.


Thanks for pointing out the difference between a notary public in the U.S. and a Mexican notario. Frankly, that was news to me and good to know!


----------



## RVGRINGO (May 16, 2007)

If the property is registered in his wife‘s name, he has no right to enter into an agreement to sell it.
Run away from this situation and hold on to your money. Any contract that you make with him in the USA will have no validity in either country, and he will have your money and vanish. You will have no way to get it back.


----------



## dwwhiteside (Apr 17, 2013)

In addition to echoing what everyone else here has said about using a notario publico THAT YOU SELECT in Hermosillo if you are intent on making this purchase; I just want to mention that $400k USD is a substantial amount for residential property in Mexico. This is nearly eight million pesos. 

That may very well be the legitimate value of that property. But, as someone who has purchased multiple residential properties in Mexico, that price seems high to me. As they say about real estate, it comes down to three things; location, location and location. So, perhaps the property you're looking at is well worth the price you have negotiated. 

On the other hand, make certain that during your due diligence you get information on any other similar properties in the same area that have sold in the last 6 to 12 months. Make certain the price you pay is not out of line for the area.


----------



## gringotim (Jan 5, 2011)

mexco said:


> when I brought up the subject of using "Escrow" or a lawyer to facilitate our transaction, he has insisted that we don't need it.!


Personally, based on what the OP has said, especially "I am really the trusting, gullible type", I DON'T think they should just walk away from this deal , they should RUN


----------



## RVGRINGO (May 16, 2007)

Also, consider the visa that will be needed, the permission to purhase property and to work, business licenses, RFC, CURP, seguros tax registrations monthly, Hotel taxes, income taxes, accountant, pay-offs for protection, etc., etc. 
Run.....and hide.


----------



## lagoloo (Apr 12, 2011)

This tale of potential disaster makes one want to kidnap this man and save him from hisself!

PLEASE: don't do it. Don't Jump!


----------



## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

I hope the OP comes back soon to read all of the good cautionary advice contributed by forum members.


----------



## Jim from Alaska (Feb 20, 2017)

Where's the picture of a train wreck when you need it cause that's what I would call this purchase. 

Or to use a phrase from Forrest Gump...........Run Forrest RUN!!!


----------



## mexco (Apr 19, 2017)

So I just wanna give you guys an update on the situation...

This whole thing is starting to smell very fishy fishy.. 

And you know, I don't have any friend in Mexico... So I'm really relying on you guys to provide me with all the answers..

Let me type it out first..

PS: Thank you guys!


----------



## mexco (Apr 19, 2017)

*This thread really sends chills down my spine at this very moment. * I am feeling very scared and frightened..

So I've decided to share the whole story with the group (including an update) ---

This is *Part ONE* of my story:

So couple weeks ago, after doing some initial research on a property near Hermosillo, I decided to get in touch with the owner.. Some of the property listings were put up by realtors, and rest were put up by the owner himself.

I decided to contact the owner himself because I thought I would get a better deal this way (and save on commission).. The truth is I've been saving up for a B&B in Mexico for a while, and this is like my life's dream...

So in this listing, the property had an asking price of around $345K... But when I talked to this owner on the phone, he immediately raised the price to $415K. I asked him why? His reply was that there were also two empty parking lots that weren't mentioned in the listing, but he wished to include in the sales. Also, he told me that he just received another offer that morning at $400K. Having learned that there was already a competitor, I immediately told the owner I would make him an all-cash offer one or two days later (let's just say it was something very good in this price range).

So two days later, I made him an offer at $410K ($10K more than the competing bid), and he accepted it. He then told me that since we're both in the US at the moment, *all we need is a simple purchase agreement, have it notarized in the States, then this will serve as our legally binding contract.* He also told me that at the signing of this preliminary agreement, I need to wire transfer a $25,000 deposit to his personal account. After 6 weeks, we'll both go down to Mexico and finalize our transaction by signing over the property to me at notary public (he asked me to wire transfer the remaining amount before he would sign it).

Then he asked me to write up this preliminary agreement. I raised the question of using Escrow at that time, but this person repeatedly assured me that we don't need Escrow because we're both in the States - "The American laws will protect us!" We spent the next few days going back and forth hammering out the terms of our purchase agreement.

Then couple nights later, it finally hits me -- My GOD! Can I really do this kind of thing without any legal representation? How about due diligence? What if there is lien or debt on the property? What if this person takes my money and run away? A lot of questions were raised in my mind as I was typing out this agreement (tried to do a job as good as I can being a non-lawyer)..

So that night, I immediately wrote him an email and said NO to him. I told him that it was totally unacceptable as it placed enormous amount of risk on me. It was just ridiculous! I would need to have Title & Escrow protection, also I would like to have a lawyer write up my agreement/contract, or someone who would walk me through every step.


----------



## mexco (Apr 19, 2017)

This is *Part TWO* of my story:

So next morning, he called me on the phone, and told me that he has just the solution for me! He told me that he had found a real estate agent who would talk to me and reassure me that everything is legit. He also gives me the email and number of a "lawyer" in Hermosillo. He said this company would take care of Title research for me.

Having heard that, I was elated and satisfied. So I repeatedly thank him and apologized to him for having offended him (I was blaming myself for thinking too much and hurting an innocent person's feeling)..

So this afternoon, he got in touch with me on the phone, and told me that he needed assurance that I really wanted to do business with him. He insisted that I should give him this $25,000 deposit first to make him more comfortable about our deal. So I told him, "Okay! You write up the agreement this time! Cuz I had a hard time writing it!"

So this is what this person sent to me (not the original copy & wording):

-----------------------

DEPOSIT AGREEMENT --

Both parties agree $410K is the final amount to be paid to the Seller.

1. $25,000 to be wire transferred to the seller at signing of this document (to be notarized by a notary public here in the States).

2. The remaining amount is to be paid in full via wire transfer before he signs the property over to me in Mexico.

-----------------------

Well, I was not at all happy about this, because I thought we had already agreed to use ESCROW??? So I immediately asked him why he opposed to the use of Escrow on the phone. (I also offered him to bring a cashier's check from the States to Mexico)..

And he said something along this line "People don't do Escrow in Mexico.. People use wire transfer for this type of purchases all the time"... "He did not want to use Mexican Escrow because if we moved money into Mexico, he would get charged a tax"... "He does not want lots of cash on him in Mexico as he might get arrested or something (can't remember exactly what he said)"...

Anyways.. He gave me a whole bunch of reasons on why it's not possible to do Escrow in this case..

After I hung up the phone.. it hit me - Really No Escrow and it's $400K??!! Are you out of your mind??

And I immediately called him back and told him "No WAY! I am not signing anything unless I have a lawyer representing me and going over everything.."

So that's what happened last night...


----------



## mexco (Apr 19, 2017)

Honestly, what do you guys think I should do at this point?

I was being honest when I said I'm really the naive trusting type...

Should I get a lawyer to aid in this case? Or just forget about the whole thing?? 

PS: Thank you very much for not laughing at me. Feeling extremely bad already. ;((((


----------



## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

mexco said:


> Honestly, what do you guys think I should do at this point?
> 
> I was being honest when I said I'm really the naive trusting type...
> 
> ...


FORGET THE WHOLE THING with this guy. You don't even know if the property exists. This is like someone selling you the Brooklyn Bridge or swamp land in Florida.
There are ways to buy property in Mexico. This ain't it.


----------



## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

As a side comment, I often see big signs on property in Mexico that say (in Spanish of course) "Not for sale" or "Not for rent". Until recently, these signs mystified me. In other countries, you see "For Sale" or "For Rent", signs but why "Not for sale" or "Not for rent".

Well, the answer finally came to me. It is to prevent someone with no connection to the property from trying to sell it or rent it to an unsuspecting buyer/renter. If some con artist sells property he does not own to a buyer, the real owner ends up in a dispute with the buyer. The signs are to prevent that by letting prospective buyers know that the property is not for sale.


----------



## mexco (Apr 19, 2017)

Hi TundraGreen,

Could you elaborate on what you meant by "handing the cash" to the seller?

Are you suggesting that I bring him a cashier's check from the States and hand it over to him (I don't know if I had mentioned it: He wanted the funds *in USD only*) in Mexico? That's going to happen only AFTER he signs the property over to me right?

Can we take a vote and see how many of you think I should get a lawyer and go through with this deal, and how many think I should just RUN AWAY? 

I seriously don't trust this person at this point... And I am having a huge headache.. 




TundraGreen said:


> I agree. The OP (Original Poster) would be crazy to buy property without having the transaction handled by a registered Notario Publico in the municipalidad where the property is located. If, by chance, it is on ejido land, even more care is required. I believe a Notario Publico is the only one that can register the paperwork with the government and get them to issue a new "deed" in the buyer's name.
> 
> An added thought: Notario Publicos do not typically get involved in holding the cash in the way that an escrow company would in the US. So an alternative strategy is in order. First the OP goes to Mexico with the seller and has a compraventa (sales contract) drawn up by a Notario Publico. The Notario Publico does due diligence investigating the title. Then the buyer and seller both sign the escritura (title) and the buyer hands the cash to the seller in exchange for the keys. After the transfer of keys and cash, the Notario Publico files the escritura with the government and eventually (three to six months later) they deliver a registered copy to the buyer. That is the way it generally works in Mexico.
> 
> ...


----------



## mexco (Apr 19, 2017)

Just saw your comment, Thank you so much!




TundraGreen said:


> FORGET THE WHOLE THING with this guy. You don't even know if the property exists. This is like someone selling you the Brooklyn Bridge or swamp land in Florida.
> There are ways to buy property in Mexico. This ain't it.


----------



## mexco (Apr 19, 2017)

OMG!!! I think my head is going to explode! :fingerscrossed:

A quick question ---

Would you recommend that I go find a buyer's agent (or maybe a legal services) and try another approach to get this deal done? (Of course Title Search/Title Insurance is a must)... 

A REMAX Agent wrote me back and told me that she would do legwork for me and investigate this property. What do you think? 

Let me share this with you -- That guy is a registered real estate agent here in the States (he's with a very famous company)... I really can't wrap my head around this.. Why would such a seemingly nice and honest American guy scam me?? He's white and not even Mexican. lol.. 





TundraGreen said:


> As a side comment, I often see big signs on property in Mexico that say (in Spanish of course) "Not for sale" or "Not for rent". Until recently, these signs mystified me. In other countries, you see "For Sale" or "For Rent", signs but why "Not for sale" or "Not for rent".
> 
> Well, the answer finally came to me. It is to prevent someone with no connection to the property from trying to sell it or rent it to an unsuspecting buyer/renter. If some con artist sells property he does not own to a buyer, the real owner ends up in a dispute with the buyer. The signs are to prevent that by letting prospective buyers know that the property is not for sale.


----------



## mexco (Apr 19, 2017)

Just decided to combine the two big posts (including an update) ---

So couple weeks ago, after doing some initial research on a property near Hermosillo, I decided to get in touch with the owner.. Some of the property listings were put up by realtors, and rest were put up by the owner himself.

I decided to contact the owner himself because I thought I would get a better deal this way (and save on commission).. The truth is I've been saving up for a B&B in Mexico for a while, and this is like my life's dream...

So in this listing, the property had an asking price of around $345K... But when I talked to this owner on the phone, he immediately raised the price to $415K. I asked him why? His reply was that there were also two empty parking lots that weren't mentioned in the listing, but he wished to include in the sales. Also, he told me that he just received another offer that morning at $400K. Having learned that there was already a competitor, I immediately told the owner I would make him an all-cash offer one or two days later (let's just say it was something very good in this price range).

So two days later, I made him an offer at $410K ($10K more than the competing bid), and he accepted it. He then told me that since we're both in the US at the moment, *all we need is a simple purchase agreement, have it notarized in the States, then this will serve as our legally binding contract.* He also told me that at the signing of this preliminary agreement, I need to wire transfer a $25,000 deposit to his personal account. After 6 weeks, we'll both go down to Mexico and finalize our transaction by signing over the property to me at notary public (he asked me to wire transfer the remaining amount before he would sign it).

Then he asked me to write up this preliminary agreement. I raised the question of using Escrow at that time, but this person repeatedly assured me that we don't need Escrow because we're both in the States - "The American laws will protect us!" We spent the next few days going back and forth hammering out the terms of our purchase agreement.

Then couple nights later, it finally hits me -- My GOD! Can I really do this kind of thing without any legal representation? How about due diligence? What if there is lien or debt on the property? What if this person takes my money and run away? A lot of questions were raised in my mind as I was typing out this agreement (tried to do a job as good as I can being a non-lawyer)..

So that night, I immediately wrote him an email and said NO to him. I told him that it was totally unacceptable as it placed enormous amount of risk on me. It was just ridiculous! I would need to have Title & Escrow protection, also I would like to have a lawyer write up my agreement/contract, or someone who would walk me through every step.

========================================

So next morning, he called me on the phone, and told me that he has just the solution for me! He told me that he had found a real estate agent who would talk to me and reassure me that everything is legit. He also gives me the email and number of a "lawyer" in Hermosillo. He said this company would take care of Title research for me.

Having heard that, I was elated and satisfied. So I repeatedly thank him and apologized to him for having offended him (I was blaming myself for thinking too much and hurting an innocent person's feeling)..

So this afternoon, he got in touch with me on the phone, and told me that he needed assurance that I really wanted to do business with him. He insisted that I should give him this $25,000 deposit first to make him more comfortable about our deal. So I told him, "Okay! You write up the agreement this time! Cuz I had a hard time writing it!"

So this is what this person sent to me (not the original copy & wording):

-----------------------

DEPOSIT AGREEMENT --

Both parties agree $410K is the final amount to be paid to the Seller.

1. $25,000 to be wire transferred to the seller at signing of this document (to be notarized by a notary public here in the States).

2. The remaining amount is to be paid in full via wire transfer before he signs the property over to me in Mexico.

-----------------------

Well, I was not at all happy about this, because I thought we had already agreed to use ESCROW??? So I immediately asked him why he opposed to the use of Escrow on the phone. (I also offered him to bring a cashier's check from the States to Mexico)..

And he said something along this line "People don't do Escrow in Mexico.. People use wire transfer for this type of purchases all the time"... "He did not want to use Mexican Escrow because if we moved money into Mexico, he would get charged a tax"... "He does not want lots of cash on him in Mexico as he might get arrested or something (can't remember exactly what he said)"...

Anyways.. He gave me a whole bunch of reasons on why it's not possible to do Escrow in this case..

After I hung up the phone.. it hit me - Really No Escrow and it's $400K??!! Are you out of your mind??

And I immediately called him back and told him "No WAY! I am not signing anything unless I have a lawyer representing me and going over everything.."

So that's what happened last night...


----------



## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

mexco said:


> Hi TundraGreen,
> 
> Could you elaborate on what you meant by "handing the cash" to the seller?
> 
> ...


Yes I was talking about giving the seller a cashiers check or a doing a bank transfer AFTER a Notario Publico had drawn up a sales contract (Compraventa) and AFTER the Notario Publico had investigated the title and verified that there were no encumbrances, that all the taxes were paid up, that all the utilities were paid up. In Mexico, all of those bills go with the property.

Really, this whole deal is completely wrong. If you want a bed and breakfast in Mexico, come to Mexico. Find one that interests you, pick a Notario Publico and buy it in Mexico. Buying property in Mexico from the US is crazy. This deal is crazy. Do not do it. I don't know how to say it any more strongly than all of the responses you have gotten.


----------



## TurtleToo (Aug 23, 2013)

mexco said:


> Honestly, what do you guys think I should do at this point?
> 
> I was being honest when I said I'm really the naive trusting type...
> 
> ...



Mexco, did you even read the first two pages of responses to your post? If you did, you don't seem to have taken that sound advice on board. You have been advised--emphatically so--by several members to walk away from this deal. The new details you have just added give *no reason *to change that advice--just further reasons to repeat it. Not one person here has advised you that this deal sounds okay to proceed with. That's because you would be foolish to pursue this further. Pay attention to what Tundra Green just said, and read what everyone else said earlier. Look elsewhere while you are still in possession of your 410K.


----------



## horseshoe846 (Feb 8, 2017)

Mexco - have you even seen this property ?

edit - we would never buy ANY property ANYWHERE without having it inspected (electrical/structural/plumbing etc).


----------



## TurtleToo (Aug 23, 2013)

TundraGreen said:


> Really, this whole deal is completely wrong. If you want a bed and breakfast in Mexico, come to Mexico. Find one that interests you, pick a Notario Publico and buy it in Mexico. Buying property in Mexico from the US is crazy. This deal is crazy. Do not do it. I don't know how to say it any more strongly than all of the responses you have gotten.


This says it all. * Read this and pay attention!* I missed the fact that you haven't even been to Mexico to see this property in person. (Can that possibly be right?) You've seen only a listing? All the worse! 

TG has said everything you need to make your decision. Now be smart, and take his advice.

.


----------



## lagoloo (Apr 12, 2011)

I invested in real estate back in the States and know enough to say DON'T DO IT. In the first place, that's a lot of money to lose. In the second place, it's his wife's property. In the third place, why Hermosillo? Come on down, look it over, get a lawyer do it right or don't do it at all. 
Better yet: Don't trust this guy! If he's a legit real estate agent in the U.S., that does not make him qualified to sell property in Mexico.


----------



## horseshoe846 (Feb 8, 2017)

There are at least a couple of threads on this forum at the moment which really have me wondering. People with a very short history making some posts which almost seem to be trying to 'stir things up' ?? (I'm not sure if the term troll applies - but it does come to mind). I sometimes wonder if people sometimes try to breathe life into a comatose patient...


----------



## lagoloo (Apr 12, 2011)

horseshoe846 said:


> There are at least a couple of threads on this forum at the moment which really have me wondering. People with a very short history making some posts which almost seem to be trying to 'stir things up' ?? (I'm not sure if the term troll applies - but it does come to mind). I sometimes wonder if people sometimes try to breathe life into a comatose patient...


I'm neither trusting nor naive, but I'm inclined to give people the benefit of the doubt until it becomes very clear what's really going on, and I agree with you. This real estate thread is heading into questionable territory. I find myself wondering just how naive someone who has accumulated over $400K would have to be to ever get this far into a curious venture.
As my kids used to say "Are we THERE yet"?:


----------



## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

horseshoe846 said:


> There are at least a couple of threads on this forum at the moment which really have me wondering. People with a very short history making some posts which almost seem to be trying to 'stir things up' ?? (I'm not sure if the term troll applies - but it does come to mind). I sometimes wonder if people sometimes try to breathe life into a comatose patient...


I am coming around to your way of thinking. Either this guy is incredibly gullible, or we are. It is hard to believe that anyone could be as gullible as the OP seems to be. It is also hard to believe, someone would be willing to put so much time into crafting a story just to jerk us around, but maybe that is amusing to some people.


----------



## lagoloo (Apr 12, 2011)

TundraGreen said:


> I am coming around to your way of thinking. Either this guy is incredibly gullible, or we are. It is hard to believe that anyone could be as gullible as the OP seems to be. It is also hard to believe, someone would be willing to put so much time into crafting a story just to jerk us around, but maybe that is amusing to some people.


Some folks are really, really bored so yes, they have both the time and the inclination to do time consuming jerk-arounding.


----------



## TurtleToo (Aug 23, 2013)

lagoloo said:


> Some folks are really, really bored so yes, they have both the time and the inclination to do time consuming jerk-arounding.


What a sad commentary on someone's life--to have nothing better to do than waste time creating such an elaborate hoax. For what? To enjoy baiting people into falling for it? (Apologies for the mixed metaphor!)

Ah, well, it shows how strong the urge to be helpful can be.

.


----------



## RVGRINGO (May 16, 2007)

I have an idea: I have experience in buying and selling a few properties in Mexico. So, if the OP will simply send me the $410 USD and the address of the property, I will go to Hermosillo and attempt to purchase the property in the proper way. If it is truly available, it could be done. If it is not available, I will just keep going.........somewhere.........
Either way; he loses.


----------



## mexco (Apr 19, 2017)

*TundraGreen:*

Thank you for all your assistance, sir. I've finally woken up and realized that it was such a crazy proposition. I've decided to be on the safe side, and not pursuing this deal.

*To the doubters of authenticity of this thread:*

It honestly makes me feel sad that so many of you would think someone would waste so much time just to string a bunch of strangers along, just for his own amusement.

Have you ever wanted something so badly that the thought just clouds your judgement?

Well, believe it or not: this is really one of those cases.


----------



## mexco (Apr 19, 2017)

Sigh...

Seriously, what would I have to gain by jerking a bunch of strangers around? On the other hand, I feel extremely embarrassed for being in this type of situation. I'm very glad that I can hide my embarrassment behind my monitor.

The truth is - in the States, I've always used an agent to handle my affairs, look after my interest.. etc

This is really the first time I deal with a Seller directly. 

Anyways, this is really something that just happened to me. I was just going to start a new post thanking the community for saving me from this potentially suicidal act... But then I saw the reaction in this thread.. Well.. So be it. :fingerscrossed:



TundraGreen said:


> I am coming around to your way of thinking. Either this guy is incredibly gullible, or we are. It is hard to believe that anyone could be as gullible as the OP seems to be. It is also hard to believe, someone would be willing to put so much time into crafting a story just to jerk us around, but maybe that is amusing to some people.


----------



## mexco (Apr 19, 2017)

I don't mind posting screenshots of my email communication with this seller for the community. But seriously, you guys' reaction surprised me.


----------



## ojosazules11 (Nov 3, 2013)

mexco said:


> I don't mind posting screenshots of my email communication with this seller for the community. But seriously, you guys' reaction surprised me.


Thank you for clarifying, Mexco. I can understand your surprise at some of the reactions, but for those of us who have been participating on the forum for several years, there have been some cases where posters did invent unusual but still believable stories just to see everyone's reaction. In one case at the end of several pages of the thread (supposedly by an Australian who got a young Mexican woman pregnant), the original poster basically confessed to completely making it all up for their own amusement and essentially laughed at us all for being so gullible. I personally prefer to give someone the benefit of the doubt - even if that makes me gullible - as long as all it'll cost me is a few minutes of my time and effort to post my opinion. When it comes to my hard-earned savings, then I feel no compulsion to give anyone the benefit of the doubt. There are far too many con artists and swindlers out there. If it looks like a rotten fish, and smells like a rotten fish, chances are it's a rotten fish.

I agree with all the advice you've received about this deal, and certainly can't understand why you would not be going in person to Mexico to check out this property if your heart is set on it, before even considering handing over US$410K. I won't repeat all the other huge red flags and pitfalls that have been clearly pointed out throughout this thread. You've gotten solid, well intentioned advice, now it's up to you what to do with it.


----------



## mexco (Apr 19, 2017)

I'm still kicking myself for being so stupid. But you know, it's really hard for someone to understand how something like this could have happened.. unless you've been in one yourself. 

The lessons I've learned from this experience: 1) If anyone is considering purchasing a property or business in Mexico, *getting a buyer's agent or hiring legal counsel is a must*. 

2) Things can be sooo different in a foreign country. You must do lots of research first before putting anything down. 

======

BTW, this whole thing reeks classic signs of a scam. Now I think about it, he was actually opposed to me getting legal counsel at first.. His reaction was "We could have done that ourselves for free in the States, why wasted money?" "IF I hire a lawyer to represent me, he will have to hire a lawyer to represent him too. Who's going to pay for legal cost?"

So many signs of a scam, and I didn't pick up any of it.. It's just that when you're in the middle of it (and the person is smooth talking and seems genuinely trustworthy and nice), you don't want to offend a potential friend, you know?



ojosazules11 said:


> Hi, Mexco. I had posted a reply on the other thread before seeing this one. You don't need to be embarrassed. First of all, none of us even know who you are in real life. Second, yours can be a helpful precautionary tale for others. People fall for scams all the time, and as you say, there can be many factors which cloud their judgment. In hindsight they ask themselves, "What was I thinking?", but things aren't always so clear when they're in the middle of it.
> 
> Good luck, and I hope you will be able to realize your dream someday!


----------



## mexco (Apr 19, 2017)

Hi ojo,

Thank you for the kind words and support.

I don't know if you know this - But here in the states, all the property information can be found on government website (County assessor's office/Country property search). If you want to know anything, you can just call the people at those offices and get you want.

And you know, here in the States, everything is done via Title & Escrow -- full protection for the buyers. Before I got in touch with that seller, I just assumed that since he is a licensed broker here in the States, he would know how to conduct business the right away (the American way).. And I can rely on the same process to purchase properties in Mexico.

I also mistakenly thought that Mexico would have the same process as what we have here in the States (big mistake)..

Anyways, there's a lot of false assumptions involved that led to this disaster..

I understand I'm partly to blame for this.  Trust me when I say lesson learned, and mistakes won't be repeated. 




ojosazules11 said:


> Thank you for clarifying, Mexco. I can understand your surprise at some of the reactions, but for those of us who have been participating on the forum for several years, there have been some cases where posters did invent unusual but still believable stories just to see everyone's reaction. In one case at the end of several pages of the thread (supposedly by an Australian who got a young Mexican woman pregnant), the original poster basically confessed to completely making it all up for their own amusement and essentially laughed at us all for being so gullible. I personally prefer to give someone the benefit of the doubt - even if that makes me gullible - as long as all it'll cost me is a few minutes of my time and effort to post my opinion. When it comes to my hard-earned savings, then I feel no compulsion to give anyone the benefit of the doubt. There are far too many con artists and swindlers out there. If it looks like a rotten fish, and smells like a rotten fish, chances are it's a rotten fish.
> 
> I agree with all the advice you've received about this deal, and certainly can't understand why you would not be going in person to Mexico to check out this property if your heart is set on it, before even considering handing over US$410K. I won't repeat all the other huge red flags and pitfalls that have been clearly pointed out throughout this thread. You've gotten solid, well intentioned advice, now it's up to you what to do with it.


----------



## Stevesolar (Dec 21, 2012)

mexco said:


> So many signs of a scam, and I didn't pick up any of it.. It's just that when you're in the middle of it (and the person is smooth talking and seems genuinely trustworthy and nice), you don't want to offend a potential friend, you know?


Hi,
There is one worrying line in your above post.
You really need to distinguish the difference between friendship and business.
Why would you even consider that the guy trying to sell you a property would be a potential friend?
I am friendly to people trying to sell me something - but they are unlikely to ever be my friend and I am very cautious that their "friendship" is purely a sales technique to get closer to me - to make it harder for me to say "no" to whatever deal they are offering.
A very good (genuine) friend of mine worked as an auditor for the World bank in Africa, as well as being a financial director for a number of prominent companies.
He has probably seen every scam going.
He once gave me the following advice when conducting business:-
There are only two rules in business
Rule 1) Trust nobody
Rule 2) Go back and read Rule 1.

Cheers
Steve


----------



## TurtleToo (Aug 23, 2013)

"_So many signs of a scam, and I didn't pick up any of it.. It's just that when you're in the middle of it (and the person is smooth talking and seems genuinely trustworthy and nice), you don't want to offend a potential friend, you know?_

No, I don't know. Protecting your interests in a businesslike fashion offends nobody. Certainly no real "potential friend" will be offended by your looking out for yourself. This is exactly the kind of thinking that could have cost you hundreds of thousands of dollars.


----------



## lagoloo (Apr 12, 2011)

When I posted that there is no such thing as an "unpersonable" con artist, I spoke from experience.
They are some of the friendliest, seemingly warmest people on the planet. You find yourself wanting to have him or her as your friend. The lesson learned at the end of it is a bitter and often costly one.
Good luck to our OP. Looks like he escaped.


----------



## ojosazules11 (Nov 3, 2013)

mexco said:


> Hi ojo,
> 
> Thank you for the kind words and support.
> 
> ...


Mexco, in my professional life I do a lot of counselling, and part of that is helping people "reframe" their perspectives, and change negative self-talk into neutral or even positive self-talk.

So, I would reframe by saying that what happened was NOT a disaster, because you still have your $410K. It was a *potential* disaster which you avoided because you listened to that voice telling you something wasn't right about the whole thing.

Instead of berating and beating yourself up about it, focus on the "lesson learned". Once burned, twice shy. Many of us on this forum have purchased property in Mexico, myself included, so it's not an impossible or unwise dream, but you now have more information about how to go about it and some things to watch out for. Best of luck!


----------



## Orfin (Sep 26, 2016)

You should approach Mexico with the attitude that your US dollars are the commidity being bought and not the other way around. Especially with the currency situation here.
That being said, make the seller answer to your dealing requirements if he wants to purchase your US dollars with his Property.
Use the same scrutiny they would use on you here if you showed up trying to spend $400k cash in one transaction. They would sit there without a flinch as to how you feel about it and the long wait as they scrutinize each $ bill to be absolute that it is not counterfeit. And the farther south of Mexico you go, the more scrutinized dollars get. Lots of counterfeits and fraud. 
I had a latin American Bank refuse a crisp brand new hundred $ bill because it had a very clean almost invisible millimeter tear. Perfect $100 bill i went out of my way to request from my US bank before travelling. 
Then i go to the same bank ATM and Use it for the $ payout option, only to get paid out dirty tarnished and some ripped $20 bills that the banks then refuse to take from me for the flaw. 
They scrutinize my bills for nothing less than perfect bills, but tell me to relax and be casual about getting ragged bills back from them. 
It got tiresome having everybody ask me if i could pay in dollars and then to turn around and have them always give me unacceptably tarnished $ bills in exchange. Plus the risk of counterfeits. I stopped dealing in Dollars all together and just use their local currency after changing all my travelled dollars to local currency. 
Using me like a cash mule to get around the disadvantages of their own currency, the disadvantages of their own country. And that use and abuse is why they have issues with the instability of their currency and economies in Latin America. My clean perfect bills were probably being sold out to drug money lauderers who are probably responsible for most of the dirty bills the ATMs spit out and then the same banks refuse to receive them back. They only want the best US bills. 
I stopped doing them the favor of bringing them the best from USA only to end up risking getting counterfeits in change. I will never take back US $ bills i get in latin america. I could end up getting caught with a counterfeit unknown, because of just how prolific shady dealings are down there and the average assumption is that USA and its people are the ones most ripe for the picking in latin America where they assume $ bills just grow on trees for people up north.

The deal has to be on your terms, your dollars are the real commodity being bought, thats how they act about dollars in latin America even though they will try to treat you like they are the one with the hot commodity that determines they set the terms. Be sure they do not buy your dollars with fake property, misappropriated property or indebted property.
Never ever do any property deal for Mexico, outside of mexico and without proper professional help to research the status of the property and that all the right conveyance signatures are in place. 

If you want to take purchase risks as i often do ,for the sheer thrill of being brave, go to the local markets and pay for some tomatoes before actually picking them off the table. Someone always seems to slip in under my arms and pick out what i was looking for, barge in and interrupt my transaction with the seller and even outright cut in line in front of me and then linger after their deal to watch me pay as they stare down my wallet. 
When you see how rudely crude dealings can be here around gringos and how "nice & casual" they are about it, you will know just how easy it is to be taken by a nice Mexican. And will take as much as you let loose, that includes all you are worth. 
I swear, i can barely do a transaction for a bag of chips in town without a person or two moving in as close as they can to stare down my wallet as i open it to pay. No sarcasm or joke here. And i know the stareing adds up to gossip when i am gone, gossip that revolves around "the ******'s money" and their desire to get it in their hands. 

And then comes the overpricing gimmicks. A whole other reason to go down and really see what you are payong for, before you pay anything.


----------



## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

Orfin said:


> You should approach Mexico …


Where in Mexico do you live? It sounds like a completely different country from where I live.


----------



## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

TundraGreen said:


> Where in Mexico do you live? It sounds like a completely different country from where I live.


I feel the same as you TG, another country entirely.


----------



## TurtleToo (Aug 23, 2013)

Orfin said:


> You should approach Mexico with the attitude that your US dollars are the commidity being bought and not the other way around. Especially with the currency situation here.
> That being said, make the seller answer to your dealing requirements if he wants to purchase your US dollars with his Property.
> Use the same scrutiny they would use on you here if you showed up trying to spend $400k cash in one transaction. They would sit there without a flinch as to how you feel about it and the long wait as they scrutinize each $ bill to be absolute that it is not counterfeit. And the farther south of Mexico you go, the more scrutinized dollars get. Lots of counterfeits and fraud.
> I had a latin American Bank refuse a crisp brand new hundred $ bill because it had a very clean almost invisible millimeter tear. Perfect $100 bill i went out of my way to request from my US bank before travelling.
> ...


Orfin, this makes it sound as if she would show up in Mexico with a bag full of dollars (hundreds of thousands of dollars!) to pay for a real estate purchase.  Surely in 2017 there is a better way?

.


----------



## TurtleToo (Aug 23, 2013)

I meant to add that I do agree with your broader message to carefully scrutinize any potential real estate transaction, to secure the services of a professional, and to stop thinking that the property owner is engaging in the transaction because he likes you. 

.


----------



## Zorro2017 (Jan 9, 2017)

Why would anyone sell a profitable business is the first question to always ask.


----------



## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

where in Mexico do you live Orfin? I live in Jalisco and Chiapas and I never had anyone accept dollars except for houses in Jalisco and then through bank transfers... I have not held a dollar bill in my hand for years..


----------



## gringotim (Jan 5, 2011)

Zorro2017 said:


> Why would anyone sell a profitable business is the first question to always ask.


In general, the best and easiest time to sell a business is when its profitable, and thats also when you can ask more for it. Or, maybe the seller is burnt out,(been there), or its time to retire or just time for a change. Not many people would buy a business that is losing money.


----------



## GARYJ65 (Feb 9, 2013)

citlali said:


> where in Mexico do you live Orfin? I live in Jalisco and Chiapas and I never had anyone accept dollars except for houses in Jalisco and then through bank transfers... I have not held a dollar bill in my hand for years..


Besides, it is illegal to pay more than $500,000 pesos in cash for a property, not saying that it cannot be done, but is illegal


----------



## perropedorro (Mar 19, 2016)

gringotim said:


> In general, the best and easiest time to sell a business is when its profitable, and thats also when you can ask more for it. Or, maybe the seller is burnt out,(been there), or its time to retire or just time for a change. Not many people would buy a business that is losing money.


But first you have to know the business because you can't always tell how profitable it is by the books. My wife worked as an accountant for years and claims that SOP for owners of Mexican businesses is to keep 3 sets of ledgers: one for the fisco, one for investors, and the _real_ one.


----------



## perropedorro (Mar 19, 2016)

GARYJ65 said:


> Besides, it is illegal to pay more than $500,000 pesos in cash for a property, not saying that it cannot be done, but is illegal


That makes sense, but as you suggest, there's always an end-run around it. Not like the U.S. is pure in that regard either. Plenty of high end real estate in Miami is purchased with questionable fortunes generated in Latin America. When folks are making a profit, they don't snoop and tend to be very helpful in finding ways to answer any concerns the government might have.:wink:


----------



## Meritorious-MasoMenos (Apr 17, 2014)

Mexco,

I have a Nigerian prince friend who has $320 million tied up in foreign bank accounts and needs a reliable American to get it out. I can help you turn that $410,000 into $41 million. Prepare an international wire transfer and give me a call.


----------

