# Confused Brit!



## Easyriders (Apr 4, 2013)

Hello all, hope you can give me some advice?
My husband and I bought a small house in Portugal in February 2013, and used it for holidays. Now we are retired, and both on UK state pension; my husband also has a works pension.

Now we'd like to spend more time in Portugal (maybe 5-6 months), and then decide if we want to move permanently to Portugal. But Brexit has made everything even more confusing than it used to be!

Our biggest worry is about registering as resident. I understand that we should apply for temporary residency when we have been in Portugal for three months - is it possible to do this before the three months is up? Also, according to the advice on the EU site, as pensioners we may need to have comprehensive health insurance. This insurance doesn't seem to be available in Portugal for people 65+ (we are both 66), and would probably be horribly expensive if it were!

Registering your residence abroad - Portugal - Your Europe

I understand we can ask for Form S1 from the UK pensions authority when we move to Portugal permanently, which will mean that we will be entitled to use the Portuguese health system, and the UK will pay Portugal back for any costs. But this may not be true after Brexit, which is one of the reasons why we are unsure about making our move permanent. Using Form S1 would mean we would not be entitled to use the NHS in the UK, so we could end up not being able to access either the UK or the Portuguese state health system. And we cannot use Form S1 for a temporary stay of 6 months, say, although we are still required to register as residents after 3 months in Portugal. Finally, I understand one registers for residency at the local town hall, but I have tried searching for which department deals with this in the town hall in Sousel, and there is no information on their website (nor on the website for Portalegre).

Sorry to have gone on a bit, but I really have been going around in circles! So can anyone advise me on the following, please?

Will we need to have private health insurance to register as resident? Any retired brits tried to register as resident recently, without an S1?

How do we find out where to register? We have been trying very hard to learn Portuguese, but we are nowhere near fluent yet. 

Any and all advice gratefully received. Thank you in advance, Linda.


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## RichardHenshall (Jul 26, 2009)

You would register at the Espaço do Cidadão. You don't have to wait for the 3 months, though you may be told otherwise.

I can't help you with your insurance dilemma.


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## Strontium (Sep 16, 2015)

May I suggest a slightly different approach. If undecided AND have somewhere to stay here and in the UK you can spend time here and in the UK collecting information before making a decision. Say 2 months here then 1 month in UK then 2 months here etc... timing with cheap flights/local events etc. Over time, half here and half in UK, you can get the information you will need to decide before you commit.


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## Easyriders (Apr 4, 2013)

Strontium said:


> May I suggest a slightly different approach. If undecided AND have somewhere to stay here and in the UK you can spend time here and in the UK collecting information before making a decision. Say 2 months here then 1 month in UK then 2 months here etc... timing with cheap flights/local events etc. Over time, half here and half in UK, you can get the information you will need to decide before you commit.


Thanks, but what you suggest is no good for us, I'm afraid. We drive all the way to Portugal, as we have a dog (A Portuguese dog, as it happens - we adopted him when he was dumped at a campsite in Alentejo in 2012). Too punishing a journey to do too often there and back!

We are not really undecided; it's just that we are not sure we can commit to complete removal to Portugal until we know the fallout from Brexit, otherwise we would just move permanently. As it is, although free movement should still be ok, in practice we are required to register as temporary residents if we stay in Portugal for more than 3 months. We just need some practical advice about how and where we do this.


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## Easyriders (Apr 4, 2013)

RichardHenshall said:


> You would register at the Espaço do Cidadão. You don't have to wait for the 3 months, though you may be told otherwise.
> 
> I can't help you with your insurance dilemma.


Thank you, we know where the Sousel Town Hall is, but there is no information on their website regarding registration for residency. I have tried emailing them (in Portuguese) but I have had no reply. So I don't know if this is the right place to apply, which department we should go to, whether we need an appointment etc.


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## RichardHenshall (Jul 26, 2009)

The link at the bottom of the page takes you to this document, listing all the services available there, in addition to the usual Câmara services. I'm sure there will be a reception desk that will point you to the correct section.


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## Janina k (Nov 30, 2011)

Hello

When Fred and I came here we went straight to the Camara in Goid and after 15 minutes and 30€ we where now resident.

We also applied for our S1 and we have had no problems at all with the health service, why pay when the UK pay. 

Just move and stop worrying I would bet that in two years time little will change.

Krystyna


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## Easyriders (Apr 4, 2013)

RichardHenshall said:


> The link at the bottom of the page takes you to this document, listing all the services available there, in addition to the usual Câmara services. I'm sure there will be a reception desk that will point you to the correct section.


Thanks, Richard, very helpful. I suppose we look for the department SEF in Sousel Camara. The odd thing is that on the document, it refers to renewal of registration, but not to initial registration of residency! I think we'll just have to try our best!


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## Easyriders (Apr 4, 2013)

Janina k said:


> Hello
> 
> When Fred and I came here we went straight to the Camara in Goid and after 15 minutes and 30€ we where now resident.
> 
> ...


Thank you, Krystynal, can you tell me how long ago that was? I understand registration was quite straightforward before the Brexit referendum, but things have become much more difficult now. Are you working in Portugal, or on a pension like us? Did you need health insurance to register? Or can ou just show your EHIC card along with other documents?

Perhaps I am a worrier, but without a crystal ball I have no idea what will happen in the future. We are both in good health, but would hate to be left in a situation where we were not eligible for state health treatment in either Portugal or the UK, and I think the S1 system will only remain valid while the UK is still in the EU.


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## Janina k (Nov 30, 2011)

Easyriders said:


> Thank you, Krystynal, can you tell me how long ago that was? I understand registration was quite straightforward before the Brexit referendum, but things have become much more difficult now. Are you working in Portugal, or on a pension like us? Did you need health insurance to register? Or can ou just show your EHIC card along with other documents?
> 
> Perhaps I am a worrier, but without a crystal ball I have no idea what will happen in the future. We are both in good health, but would hate to be left in a situation where we were not eligible for state health treatment in either Portugal or the UK, and I think the S1 system will only remain valid while the UK is still in the EU.


Hello

We moved here in August 2011 and by the end of August we where residents. As for health you seem like use to be fit, why not ask as many Brits as you meet in the local cafes how they get on for healthcare. 

Don't listen to the " a mate of mine knows someone in a bar who heard from someone ". Ask people a direct question of there experience. Or my good friend Traveling-man or people like him who have been here some time. Just don't listen to any crap.

Good luck and don't worry if there is any change I bet it won't be much.

Krystyns


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## RichardHenshall (Jul 26, 2009)

Easyriders said:


> ... I understand registration was quite straightforward before the Brexit referendum, but things have become much more difficult now. [...]
> 
> Perhaps I am a worrier, but without a crystal ball I have no idea what will happen in the future. We are both in good health, but would hate to be left in a situation where we were not eligible for state health treatment in either Portugal or the UK, and I think the S1 system will only remain valid while the UK is still in the EU.


The UK hasn't left the EU yet, so nothing has changed yet except people's imaginings about the future. If & when things do change, they are more likely to affect future arrangements than the current arrangements, which it might reasonably be hoped would continue relatively unchanged for existing emigrants from the UK.

A guide to the UK's support for emigrants in future would be to investigate whether the S1 system (or similar) applies to those living outside the EU (ie where EU policies are irrelevant).


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## Easyriders (Apr 4, 2013)

Thanks again, Richard! I will try what you suggest, but it's hard enough to find out about S1 between the UK and the rest of the EU, never mind other countries, especially for pensioners! There's some stuff online on S1 for people working in the EU, but nothing much for pensioners. It seems S1 covers a whole lot of old directives; the one for pensioners used to be called E121 I think. 

I'll give it a go though!


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## Easyriders (Apr 4, 2013)

Just checked, Richard, and the S1 can only be used for health care in the EEA and Switzerland. If the UK leaves the EEA as well as the EU, the S1 can no longer be used. That would leave us with no state health care in Portugal. And if we were resident in Portugal, it would leave us with no NHS rights either!

I don't know what this will mean for people who have used S1 in the past, but it seems to be a bit of a gamble!


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## Claudine M. (Aug 30, 2016)

This may interest you. We rented an apartment in Portugal last year not long after Brexit won the vote. My husband is a dual UK and Canadian citizen I am American. Both of us obtained residency very easily after three months living there just going through the regular channels. We didn't broach the health insurance though or permenant residency, but we did find car insurance that was transferable. I know it can be a worrying time, but since you own your own place down there and you are thinking of making a permenant move, IMO you should go and give it your best try. If you find an insurmountable obstacle, then you can still turn around and go back to the UK.


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## Naaling (Apr 9, 2015)

Easyriders said:


> Just checked, Richard, and the S1 can only be used for health care in the EEA and Switzerland. If the UK leaves the EEA as well as the EU, the S1 can no longer be used. That would leave us with no state health care in Portugal. And if we were resident in Portugal, it would leave us with no NHS rights either!
> 
> I don't know what this will mean for people who have used S1 in the past, but it seems to be a bit of a gamble!


The S1 form doesn't provide the right to access state health care, it only establishes who pays for it. The right to health care comes from residency. 

If you are legally resident in Portugal then you have the right to access state health care regardless of your circumstances. However, under EU law the health care of people on a state pension from another EU country must be paid for by the country providing the pension.


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## Easyriders (Apr 4, 2013)

Thanks, Claudine M and Naaling. We're just going to give it a go and see!


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