# Returnable deposits on drinks containers



## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Spain is considering a scheme already adopted by Germany and some Nordic countries whereby you pay a small amount extra (say 25c) for a drink in a bottle or can and then get that money back when you return them. There would be machines in supermarkets which would dispense the refund, and small shops would offer this service to their customers.

The advantages: less litter everywhere, more recycling of glass and metals, less pressure on landfill. Plus a potential source of income for the unemployed. 

Disadvantages: Inconvenience - although law-abiding environment-conscious Scandinavians seem happy to queue up and post their cans into a machine. 

Views?


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Alcalaina said:


> Spain is considering a scheme already adopted by Germany and some Nordic countries whereby you pay a small amount extra (say 25c) for a drink in a bottle or can and then get that money back when you return them. There would be machines in supermarkets which would dispense the refund, and small shops would offer this service to their customers.
> 
> The advantages: less litter everywhere, more recycling of glass and metals, less pressure on landfill. Plus a potential source of income for the unemployed.
> 
> ...


I remember taking pop bottles back to the shop - and bottle tops too I think -when I was a kid & getting a refund!

I'm not sure it would work here - despite all the recycling bins around they don't seem to be used properly - at least around here, except for the glass ones - although a cash incentive would probably persuade my kids to take cans etc. back, so maybe it would work with others too


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## Jamietd (Apr 10, 2011)

I quite like the idea tbh. I work in a drinks wholesalers and you wouldn't believe how much could be recycled if people wanted to.


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## Maimee (Jun 23, 2011)

Alcalaina said:


> Spain is considering a scheme already adopted by Germany and some Nordic countries whereby you pay a small amount extra (say 25c) for a drink in a bottle or can and then get that money back when you return them. There would be machines in supermarkets which would dispense the refund, and small shops would offer this service to their customers.
> 
> The advantages: less litter everywhere, more recycling of glass and metals, less pressure on landfill. Plus a potential source of income for the unemployed.
> 
> ...


A while ago I seem to remember a piece on Espana Directo showing machine that took plastics and glass and then printed you out a receipt. No idea where they were filming it but think that it might have been Madrid.

Rosemary


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## Magnum03 (Jul 17, 2011)

Living in one of the Nordic countries I Can give you an insight in our system. It has always been there since I was child.
When you buy a bottle (soda, beer, wine) you pay "pant" (german: Pfand). You also pay this on the boxes/crates for carring the bottles.
When you return them to the supermarket, there is a machine, which will take them and print out a reciept. Then you go shopping and at the checkout you hand over your receipt and get the amount deducted from your bill.

The good thing about the system, is that it keeps the Streets clean, even after public festivals you will see kids collecting the leftovers and cashing in. There is probably some enviromental gain also. Once collected the bottles are cleaned and sent back to the breweries. I've heard, that on avarage a bottle Can be used 6 times, before it is smelted again. Cans are crushed and turned into new cans or bikes.

The bad things about the system: Shops have an additinal cost added, when implementing and running the system, they don't get any money out of it. So the consumers have to pay the cost through the prices of all the goods in the shop. You tend to collect a certain amount of used cans and bottles in your home, which smell and attrackt flies. Often it is because you forget to bring them when shopping, or you have a crate which you can't bring, because your not shopping in your car. Sometimes you forget to use the reciept once you get to the checkout. You then find it when you come home and have to save it for the next time you go to that supermarket. Shops are only required to take back the brands of bottle they sell. Many will take anything, but you can end up going to 3 different supermarkets just to get rid of your bottles. Cans have to be undented when you return them, because the machine must be able to read the barcode. This makes storing and transporting them a hazzle. From the shops, they are then transported, undented in trucks to the central collection factories, where the barcode is checked again. So we have trucks, basicly driving around with air, don't think that's the best for the environment. Dairy based products are exempt from the system.

In general, I think it is a good idea, but There are some stupidities regarding the transportation of cans etc. which can be mended easily. But I think the system should work on an EU level. For instence: cans bought in Germany won't go into the Danish machines and vice versa. I should be able to get rid of all my bottles in the same place, which does not have to be a supermarket - the machines could be set up anywhere.


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## jimenato (Nov 21, 2009)

Interesting post from Magnum03.

There are a lot of questions about the environmental benefits (or not) of recycling. I obviously produce a lot of empty bottles (I have a bar for those who don't know) and I drive a dustbin full of empties to the recycling bin every day. I manage to combine the trip with other things i need to do but if I was using the car just for that I would doubt that it would be environmentally worthwhile. 

Lorries driving around full of air cannot be a good idea.

Sometimes I think that the whole recycling thing is, like so many other environmental initiatives, a sop to the collective conscience.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

jimenato said:


> Interesting post from Magnum03.
> 
> There are a lot of questions about the environmental benefits (or not) of recycling. I obviously produce a lot of empty bottles (I have a bar for those who don't know) and I drive a dustbin full of empties to the recycling bin every day. I manage to combine the trip with other things i need to do but if I was using the car just for that I would doubt that it would be environmentally worthwhile.
> 
> ...



If recycling was profitable, businesses would do it already. But it's not just about recycling, it's about reducing litter and landfill.

I can't imagine how it would work where I live. The nearest supermarket is 50 km away. We get through about 10 cans a day between us (beer and soft drinks), crush them up and dump them in a yellow bin once a week when we go out in the car to get some more. If we couldn't crush them it would get ridiculous.

On the other hand the number of plastic bottles, broken glass and cans littering the roadsides is just crazy.

Don't know what the answer is, but the Ayuntamientos do need to get their act together and provide more recycling facilities in walking distance.


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## Magnum03 (Jul 17, 2011)

jimenato said:


> Interesting post from Magnum03.
> 
> There are a lot of questions about the environmental benefits (or not) of recycling. I obviously produce a lot of empty bottles (I have a bar for those who don't know) and I drive a dustbin full of empties to the recycling bin every day. I manage to combine the trip with other things i need to do but if I was using the car just for that I would doubt that it would be environmentally worthwhile.
> 
> ...


I think you would better of having a bar. As I understand the system, the people delivering new beverages are also the same who collect. So when the Carlsberg truck comes with fresh beer, they pick up the empty bottles as well.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Magnum03 said:


> I think you would better of having a bar. As I understand the system, the people delivering new beverages are also the same who collect. So when the Carlsberg truck comes with fresh beer, they pick up the empty bottles as well.


.... Er ... he DOES have a bar.


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## Magnum03 (Jul 17, 2011)

Alcalaina said:


> .... Er ... he DOES have a bar.


My bad  I knew that.


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## pladecalvo (Aug 11, 2010)

I can see the advantages of it. 

One disadvantage around these parts is that you will have teams of gypsies wandering around tipping out the bins looking for cans and bottles. They do such a thing here now looking for anything useful that may be in the bins. You wake up in the morning and find that the contents of the bins scattered everywhere. Having rummaged through the bins they go, not bothering to put the sacks back into the bin, they just leave them scattered over the floor. Then along come the dogs and cats who rip open the bags.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

pladecalvo said:


> I can see the advantages of it.
> 
> One disadvantage around these parts is that you will have teams of gypsies wandering around tipping out the bins looking for cans and bottles. They do such a thing here now looking for anything useful that may be in the bins. You wake up in the morning and find that the contents of the bins scattered everywhere. Having rummaged through the bins they go, not bothering to put the sacks back into the bin, they just leave them scattered over the floor. Then along come the dogs and cats who rip open the bags.


Oh dear. 

Here, we leave anything that might be useful _outside _the bin. But dogs and cats still get in the bins and rip the bags open. I saw a greyhound in one the other day, his bony a**e sticking up in the air ...


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## pladecalvo (Aug 11, 2010)

Alcalaina said:


> Oh dear.
> 
> Here, we leave anything that might be useful _outside _the bin.


So do we but I suppose they think...._'Well you never know'.
_


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Alcalaina said:


> Spain is considering a scheme already adopted by Germany and some Nordic countries whereby you pay a small amount extra (say 25c) for a drink in a bottle or can and then get that money back when you return them. There would be machines in supermarkets which would dispense the refund, and small shops would offer this service to their customers.
> 
> The advantages: less litter everywhere, more recycling of glass and metals, less pressure on landfill. Plus a potential source of income for the unemployed.
> 
> ...


Around 1990 bottles were still recycled in Spain. I used to take beer bottles back to a supermarket I used to go to in the area of Cava Baja, so I think it would work as a lot of adults remember doing it not so long ago.

And you could take paper to "recycling" places and get a few pesetas. They were usually tiny places stacked with junk, run by little old men.


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## Guest (Feb 16, 2012)

Last time we were in Athens on the main roads they had vending Machines for collecting cans, saw an old guy with a plastic bag full of cans and every time he put a can in the machine it would crush the can and dispense money, I thought it was a great idea, kept the streets a lot cleaner,

Robert


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