# income requirements for spouse visa and using tourist visa for spouse visit



## HappyHappyFeet (Aug 2, 2012)

Hi,

Those changes to the spouse visa system are sure causing a world of pain. I've been reading through the forum and I really feel for everyone else having trouble.

I'm a UK citizen (through UK born parents), my wife is an Australian citizen. We've been married for 4 years and lived together in Australia until moving to France 12 months ago.

I've been unable to find work in France but London is looking much better and I'm very likely to find a job in London soon. However I've just found out that under the new rules I needed to have been earning for the last 6 months or have £65k saved up. Unfortunately neither are the case.

Here's some questions. Anyone who has any information would be really appreciated:

1. After some checking I see there is a category G for the self-employed which seems to say that the income from 2 financial years can be counted. As I worked like a mad thing to save up before we left my contract income would easily average over £20k per year for the last 2 years. Is the financial year they refer to the UK financial year? What kind of proof is acceptable - invoices and/or tax returns?

2. If I go over to London and again work furiously and earn £18,600 in less than 6 months can my wife then apply for a spouse visa once the magic number has been reached or does she have to wait 6 months?

3. Normally Australians can live in the UK for 6 months without a visa as long as they don't work. We were in London in July and August last year but since then we've been in Paris without returning to Australia. Is there anything that would stop her from heading over to London for 6 months? I know the UK is outside Schengen so I'm hoping the clock can be restarted.

To the other, good luck to all with your troubles. £65k!!!!!

And thanks to anyone for any assistance.


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## mehemlynn (Nov 16, 2011)

HappyHappyFeet said:


> Hi,
> 
> Those changes to the spouse visa system are sure causing a world of pain. I've been reading through the forum and I really feel for everyone else having trouble.
> 
> ...


Visits to the UK with a tourist visa as a spouse are a little dicey. unless you can show your plans at the end of the stay. For example two weeks then return flight. If you are trying to 6 months they are going to want proof of accommodation and the money to be financially self sufficient. Even then, what you are talking about seems more like settlement to me, so the border officer may just say no.

Someone else might have more information. Sorry.


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## deco (Jun 12, 2012)

Are you still living in France? If so, you might be able to get a EEA Family Permit. I don't personally know the exact requirements for it, I just remember Joppa mentioning it in another thread:



> If your British spouse/partner were to get a job in another EU/EEA country, like France, and you both go and live there for a length of time (unspecified but a minimum of 6 months would be a sensible guide), then you can apply for EEA family permit to come to UK with your spouse, bypassing UK spouse visa rules (called Surinder Singh judgement). There is no financial requirement if you are both coming to UK together, the permit is issued free and you can apply for a five-year residence card after arrival, giving you a proof of the right to work. After 5 years you can apply for settlement (permanent residency).


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## nyclon (Apr 3, 2011)

deco said:


> Are you still living in France? If so, you might be able to get a EEA Family Permit. I don't personally know the exact requirements for it, I just remember Joppa mentioning it in another thread:


He said he was unable to find work in France.


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## Flaneur (Sep 12, 2011)

good luck!


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## HappyHappyFeet (Aug 2, 2012)

nyclon said:


> He said he was unable to find work in France.


Thanks nyclon and deco. We are still living in France but as nyclon says i haven't found a job here. Ironically my wife could get one a lot more easily but is unable to as she can't get work permission until I find work. Catch-22 much?

Mehemlynn, thanks for the warning about the tourist "visa". I can see how that could be a problem. Probably what we'd do is wait for me to get a job then work out how long it'd take me to earn £18,600 then buy my wife a ticket back to Australia for that date so she can lodge her spouse visa application and show the plane ticket at border control on entry to UK. That should be enough for mr border officer don't you think?


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## 2farapart (Aug 18, 2011)

HappyHappyFeet said:


> Thanks nyclon and deco. We are still living in France but as nyclon says i haven't found a job here. Ironically my wife could get one a lot more easily but is unable to as she can't get work permission until I find work. Catch-22 much?
> 
> Mehemlynn, thanks for the warning about the tourist "visa". I can see how that could be a problem. Probably what we'd do is wait for me to get a job then work out how long it'd take me to earn £18,600 then buy my wife a ticket back to Australia for that date so she can lodge her spouse visa application and show the plane ticket at border control on entry to UK. That should be enough for mr border officer don't you think?


I might be misreading your post, but in case I'm not, you don't have to make the _sum_ of £18,600 (depending on where you work). If you return to the UK and you get a job that pays £18,600 or higher, you simply have to keep this job for at least 6 months, then your wife would be able to apply for a spouse visa and join you - so in other words, you don't have to prove you earnt all £18,600, just that you have a job that ultimately will. If working overseas, you would have to work for 12 months earning the equivalent sum AND have a confirmed job offer awaiting your return. Hope that helps.


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## HappyHappyFeet (Aug 2, 2012)

2farapart said:


> I might be misreading your post, but in case I'm not, you don't have to make the _sum_ of £18,600 (depending on where you work). If you return to the UK and you get a job that pays £18,600 or higher, you simply have to keep this job for at least 6 months, then your wife would be able to apply for a spouse visa and join you - so in other words, you don't have to prove you earnt all £18,600, just that you have a job that ultimately will. If working overseas, you would have to work for 12 months earning the equivalent sum AND have a confirmed job offer awaiting your return. Hope that helps.


Thanks 2farapart you read my message right. Unfortunately it sounds like it's not such good news.

From what you're saying I take it that if I could earn £18,600 in one month (just hypothetical) I'd still have to wait 6 months before my wife could apply? Ie it's not the sum that's important but the period of time.

By the way, do you or anyone else know about category G for the self-employed which seems to allow income over the previous 2 years to be counted?

I'm starting to think we may need to talk to a lwayer. Does anyone have a recommendation for someone based in London? I'm happy to take personal messages if recommendations aren't allowed in the forum.

Thanks.


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## 2farapart (Aug 18, 2011)

HappyHappyFeet said:


> Thanks 2farapart you read my message right. Unfortunately it sounds like it's not such good news.
> 
> From what you're saying I take it that if I could earn £18,600 in one month (just hypothetical) I'd still have to wait 6 months before my wife could apply? Ie it's not the sum that's important but the period of time.
> 
> ...


LOL! Well, after falling off my seat at the idea of you earning £18,600 a MONTH  (and you're right - you'd either very quickly make £62,500 savings but then you have to hold that for 6 months, or just keep the job for 6 months), I'm going to link you to a guide which has two comprehensive pages about self-employment (the requirement) and then the evidential requirements. I'm not being lazy, but rather it's a whole pile of information to quote. 

So, download this UKBA document: http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitecontent/documents/news/soi-fam-mig.pdf and take a particular look at pages 43 (para 164) which discusses the requirements for using self-employment, and page 47 (para 174c) which lists the evidential requirements.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Or just try to get a job in France. It doesn't have to be highly paid - only that it's a proper job (even at minimum wage) and not casual or transient. Working as a barman full-time will be fine, but not just at weekends, for example. The rule doesn't lay down how long you have to be in employment (or self-employment), but 6 months is a good guide.

Then your wife can apply for EEA family permit (under Surinder Singh rule) without having to meet any financial requirement and arrive with you in UK, and can then apply for a 5-year residence card. She will be permitted to work.


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## HappyHappyFeet (Aug 2, 2012)

2farapart said:


> LOL! Well, after falling off my seat at the idea of you earning £18,600 a MONTH  (and you're right - you'd either very quickly make £62,500 savings but then you have to hold that for 6 months, or just keep the job for 6 months), I'm going to link you to a guide which has two comprehensive pages about self-employment (the requirement) and then the evidential requirements. I'm not being lazy, but rather it's a whole pile of information to quote.
> 
> So, download this UKBA document: (snip link) and take a particular look at pages 43 (para 164) which discusses the requirements for using self-employment, and page 47 (para 174c) which lists the evidential requirements.


There's no way you could be accused of being lazy  Your help is definitely appreciated.

I've been looking through the document but the more I read the more questions I have. Time for the lawyers I think.

Though the last lawyer I spoke to said the only option was to return to Australia and work for 6 months so maybe I'll be wasting my money.

Ironic that it would have been easier if I'd managed to find a job in France.


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## HappyHappyFeet (Aug 2, 2012)

I have a follow up question after working through the UKBA documents.

For Category F and G (self-employed) there must be "evidence of ongoing self-employment at the point of application". Point of application would be Australia. Would this be covered by work from an Australian company even if I am resident in France or UK? Or do I have to head back to Australia and be resident there for the ongoing self-employment to be considered to be at point of application?

And would that be negated by the third requirement in the category, that I "must be registered as self-employed in the UK"? 

Eg once I move to London I register as self-employed but if I am still getting work from Australian clients am I self-employed at point of application or self-employed in London? Or both?


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## 2farapart (Aug 18, 2011)

I very nearly used a lawyer, but in my case the application was simple and I met all the requirements, and so was asked here 'why waste your money?'. The only reason I was about to was because I felt we only had one shot at being together and this was it, and with the belief that a lawyer would be infallible and totally knowledgeable, I liked the idea of someone else doing it for us so we didn't fluff it all up. But we saved that money and we were fine.

In your case, it's going to depend on how easily you can satisfy the self-employment requirements. The worst bit I see is the evidential requirements. How easy would it be to put all this stuff together versus getting a job in France (see Joppa's last post). 

Whilst it all looks complex, in reality you actually have a number of choices open to you, which isn't such a bad place to be in:

1. If you secure a job in France, then you can use the EEA route as Joppa mentioned.

2. Or you can secure a job worth at least £18,600 in the UK and keep it for 6 months.

3. Or, if you have the records, you may well meet the self-employment category in which case you could potentially apply right away.

Obviously, there are downsides with each. The job situation in France is dire, and securing a job in the UK means being apart for 6 months. The self-employment bit is enough to give anyone except the most neat and organised a big headache, and potentially the one where you'll need advice. But the door to you both is open on all three options and it's a case of figuring which is the most achievable.

I wish you the very best and good luck!


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## HappyHappyFeet (Aug 2, 2012)

2farapart said:


> I very nearly used a lawyer, but in my case the application was simple and I met all the requirements, and so was asked here 'why waste your money?'. The only reason I was about to was because I felt we only had one shot at being together and this was it, and with the belief that a lawyer would be infallible and totally knowledgeable, I liked the idea of someone else doing it for us so we didn't fluff it all up. But we saved that money and we were fine.
> 
> In your case, it's going to depend on how easily you can satisfy the self-employment requirements. The worst bit I see is the evidential requirements. How easy would it be to put all this stuff together versus getting a job in France (see Joppa's last post).
> 
> ...


Thanks!

I think you summarised our options really well. And I also continually remind myself that what we're really going through are "first world problems" compared to the many thousands of other people not lucky enough to have a parent born in the UK.

The frustration is that after earning a good salary for nearly 30 years we are missing out because of a new income test that only counts my income from the last year.

The suggestion of getting a job in Paris is an excellent one. I have seen the local supermarket looking for people to work on the checkout but I don't think they'll take a 50 year old with limited French. However no harm in asking I suppose. I'll pop down there this afternoon.

We honestly couldn't bear to be apart for 6 months so the London job isn't an option.

The best hope (apart from the supermarket) is the self-employed category. It certainly does look like a minefield of paperwork and for that I think a lawyer and possibly an accountant and a tax agent would be good.


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## 2farapart (Aug 18, 2011)

HappyHappyFeet said:


> I have a follow up question after working through the UKBA documents.
> 
> For Category F and G (self-employed) there must be "evidence of ongoing self-employment at the point of application". Point of application would be Australia. Would this be covered by work from an Australian company even if I am resident in France or UK? Or do I have to head back to Australia and be resident there for the ongoing self-employment to be considered to be at point of application?
> 
> ...


I am NO expert in this area whatsoever, but a wide-open question I'd have (for anyone who might know) is: can you register yourself as self-employed with the UK right NOW? I don't know what's involved in that, but if that can be done in advance, you've met another requirement.

If you are working as self-employed and are currently undertaking work for an Australian contract, to me that is still 'self-employed'. Anyone in the UK would still be self-employed whether undertaking work for a UK or overseas business.

If you do opt for a lawyer, there are plenty of posts here from unsuccessful applicants whose lawyers let them down badly (a bit like the lawyer who simply told you (unhelpfully) to return to Australia. Therefore, rather than Google a lawyer who promises the earth yet has no clue about the new rules(!), take a look at this UKBA page: UK Border Agency | Immigration advisers and agents When making enquiries, mention specifically that you're looking for expertise in Settlement Categories F and G for self-employment and hopefully you will get the proper advice you need.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

2farapart said:


> I am NO expert in this area whatsoever, but a wide-open question I'd have (for anyone who might know) is: can you register yourself as self-employed with the UK right NOW? I don't know what's involved in that, but if that can be done in advance, you've met another requirement.


To register as self-employed in UK with HMRC (I have some experience of this through family), you need to be ordinarily resident in UK for tax purposes (normally, living in UK for more than 6 months in a tax year).


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## 2farapart (Aug 18, 2011)

Joppa said:


> To register as self-employed in UK with HMRC (I have some experience of this through family), you need to be ordinarily resident in UK for tax purposes (normally, living in UK for more than 6 months in a tax year).


 So potentially, both Categories F and G are not an option then. The guidance states that, when using earnings from self-emplyment to meet the income requirement:



> The sponsor (or the applicant where they are in the UK) must be registered as self-employed in the UK.


The France EEA option is looking more and more attractive.


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## HappyHappyFeet (Aug 2, 2012)

2farapart said:


> So potentially, both Categories F and G are not an option then. The guidance states that, when using earnings from self-emplyment to meet the income requirement.


So it's not just me, this really is a merry-go-round. It seems like one of those times when there are just too many cracks for me to slip through.

Thanks to you both - though it's not what I wanted to hear what you say makes lots of sense (on the other side of the looking glass).



2farapart said:


> The France EEA option is looking more and more attractive.


Unfortunately there are a number of reasons, chiefly financial, which mean taking a low wage job in Paris for 6 months just won't be possible. Though it's nice to be in a country that is so welcoming to UK citizens 

If I go the solo route in London what chance is there for my wife to visit me at all during the 6 months? Could she come for a week? A month? 3 months? would it make a difference if she had a return ticket to Paris or Australia to prove she wasn't going to stay? Would it help if she took a short course? We stayed in London together for two months last year with no issues.

We're not out to cheat the system because she would definitely have to return to Australia to apply for the spouse visa, and I know there are no set rules and you are at the mercy of the nice man at the border, but does anyone have any suggestions?


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## HappyHappyFeet (Aug 2, 2012)

Sorry one more point. Especially for anyone coming after who is in the same situation.

In the UKBA document they provide example scenarios. On page 54 it seems that 7. Imran matches my situation if I get a job offer in London. Yay Imran!


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## 2farapart (Aug 18, 2011)

I'm not so sure...

It must be that Imran is already registered as self-employed with HMRC and is already paying his taxes from his overseas income to HMRC. However, as a UK citizen have you been doing the same? If so, yes absolutely (and presumably this also means you're registered as self-employed).

The requirements for evidence include:



> • Latest annual self-assessment tax return to HMRC and Statement of Account (SA300 or SA302). If necessary, the same for the previous financial year if the latest return does not show the necessary level of income, but the average of the last 2 financial years does.
> 
> • Proof of registration with HMRC as self-employed. Proof of registration must be original or certified copy of documentation issued by HMRC only.


(both are required)


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## HappyHappyFeet (Aug 2, 2012)

2farapart said:


> I'm not so sure...
> 
> It must be that Imran is already registered as self-employed with HMRC and is already paying his taxes from his overseas income to HMRC. However, as a UK citizen have you been doing the same? If so, yes absolutely (and presumably this also means you're registered as self-employed).
> 
> ...


I know what you mean, the scenario does seem to directly contradict the requirements. 

My interpretation is that the self-employed requirements apply if you are already working in the Uk. If you are returning (like Imran and I) then you won't fulfill any of those requirements as you haven't been working in the UK. But you should still be able to use your income as evidence of support. I suspect it then comes down to a matter of how trustworthy your paperwork is and maybe how similar your country's tax etc system is to the UK.

I asked a call centre immigration agent and he said that no one really knows how the UKBA will handle these sorts of situations but that you can definitely include foreign income under the rules so by extension this should include self-employed earnings.

Only one way to find out.


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## samantha1986 (Feb 7, 2013)

*confused.com*

Hey im gettin confused over here, right iv read on the UKBA Australians are usualy allowed to enter the Uk up to 6 months without a visa..... right ..... our solicitor advised we would be better off applying for a family visa for a 6 months stay..... has anyone els come accross this with their Australian Partners? If he has his return flight, and proof of were he is staying and that he can support himself....


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## Ley (Feb 18, 2013)

Hi , I am Australian married to a British. We live in Spain.I have been travelling to Uk for the last 15 years to c family and friends. On arrival I get a visa for 6 months not allowed to work. Sometimes i have been asked if i have a return ticket . ( I normally get a return ticket)
I do have Spanish residence and the immigration officer usually will ask to look at it. (Depends who u get on the border) .I haven't had a problem greeting a visa on arrival. We applied online for my settlement visa in Jan 2013 n I just got my spouse visa C/P .


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## samantha1986 (Feb 7, 2013)

Hey  kewl thanx for that, yeah i mean i dont see the problem if he has his return ticket n that, people keep saying different things and it just meses up your head and worrys the hell put of you! so was ur passport an australian one 2?

so when you did your settlemnt this yr, did u have financial requirements to meet? r is Spain not like that? we wanted to settle in Uk but it depends if we can meet the financial side of it which is just shocking, there are many Uk familys being split up due to this new law now. so if i cant meet it i will have to think about moving to ozi! i have such commitments at home tho it would be hard to just up n leave! :juggle:

See i need to go home to see if i can meet these requirements and if i can it will be 6 months before we can send the spouse visa in, and of course my husband will have to return home while its being prossesd. ... but yeah we dont want to be apart to long, 2 weeks in 3,5 years is the longest we have been apart...


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## Ley (Feb 18, 2013)

samantha1986 said:


> Hey  kewl thanx for that, yeah i mean i dont see the problem if he has his return ticket n that, people keep saying different things and it just meses up your head and worrys the hell put of you! so was ur passport an australian one 2?
> 
> so when you did your settlemnt this yr, did u have financial requirements to meet? r is Spain not like that? we wanted to settle in Uk but it depends if we can meet the financial side of it which is just shocking, there are many Uk familys being split up due to this new law now. so if i cant meet it i will have to think about moving to ozi! i have such commitments at home tho it would be hard to just up n leave! :juggle:
> 
> See i need to go home to see if i can meet these requirements and if i can it will be 6 months before we can send the spouse visa in, and of course my husband will have to return home while its being prossesd. ... but yeah we dont want to be apart to l ong, 2 weeks in 3,5 years is the longest we have been apart...


Hi Samantha, I have a Australian passport , I have been travelling to Uk for the last 15 years and as I said get my visa at the immigration. It is issued for 6months but not allowed to work. I do have a return ticket and hold Spanish residence card which I need to show .(depends who u get on the border and what questions they ask you etc ) I have had some nasty experience . I guess the immigration officers are doing their job?... I applied for my spouse visa online Jan 6th 2013 ,had a appointment on 12Feb 2013 at the British embassy to get my biometric ,lodged my application etc and received my spouse visa C/P on the 19th Feb 2013. Yes we had to fill in all the financial requirements n my husbands earns more than £18.000 .My husband is self employed and has his own company ,we had to include his earnings ,tax returns ,bank statements etc. We have 3 children . They were not part of the application as they are British . Good luck .


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