# I need your opinion on this issue



## A.Abbass (Jun 28, 2014)

We enrolled our 2 years 10 month son to a well known British nursery in Dubai, with 10 branches allover UAE. We were informed all teachers are native English speakers (That's also mentioned on their website).

Today my wife received an email from the class teacher introducing herself to the parents. My wife asked me about the teacher's name, I said it sounds african. She was worried since English is one of our primary goals for choosing this nursery, I then suggested the teacher could be English from african roots, or English qualified which is fine for us.

We then googled her name and viewed her public LinkedIn profile. Her full experience is in Nigeria, and she has been to Dubai a couple of months back only, her qualifications are also from Nigeria.

My wife is very worried, I suggested we wait till the orientation day and then decide. What do you guys think ? Are our worries justified ? What should we do ?


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## Stevesolar (Dec 21, 2012)

Hi,
You really need to meet and talk with the teacher to see how her English is.
Of course, the nursery are saving money by recruiting teachers from Nigeria - rather than the UK.
In any European country people would kick up a fuss and complain about misrepresentation and dodgy advertising - here that would probably be a bit more difficult to do and may not get you anywhere.
Cheers 
Steve


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## The Rascal (Aug 6, 2014)

And the official language of Nigeria is English, so if the teacher was South African, Australian, even American would you think the same?

As Steve says, wait until you meet her, she might be very, very good.


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## T'challa_Udaku (Nov 14, 2014)

Have a look at some of what we class as our "GCSE'S" taught by African teachers. Get a GCSE or an A level student have a go http://www.freekcsepastpapers.com/ and here are some of our typical english based exams http://schoolsnetkenya.com/kcse-2013-free-past-papers/. As you will see, We don't have all these multiple type ended questions. Either you study or you risk the chance of failing. No guess work.

Don't fear us Africans. Meet the teacher. She might surprise you. Some of us are rather quiet intelligent. Not me though. Not sure where I went wrong. Now where is that fella Jack Daniels......


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## KaChow (Jul 18, 2015)

The Rascal said:


> And the official language of Nigeria is English, so if the teacher was South African, Australian, even American would you think the same?
> .


I AGREE!!! 

Seriously, this is such a silly questions and reflects on your uneducated views and the stereotypical thinking that any name other than 'Smith' or whatever, is not 'native'.

Firstly, did you know that in Australia (and possibly in most other English-speaking countries) children of migrants speak/write better English than 'natives'. 

Secondly, just because she has an African name does not mean her English is poor. Unless your definition of 'English' is one with a British accent or American accent, you really need to reconsider your approach.


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## A.Abbass (Jun 28, 2014)

KaChow said:


> I AGREE!!!
> 
> Seriously, this is such a silly questions and reflects on your uneducated views and the stereotypical thinking that any name other than 'Smith' or whatever, is not 'native'.
> 
> ...


I don't see how this is a silly question, Steve mentioned that if that happened in europe people would make a fuss about it, why would that make MY views uneducated ?

If English is the official language of Nigeria, and it is the same case with many other african countries, why don't we see british schools hiring more african teachers ?

It is not the accent only we worry about, but rather the ability and experience with implementing and enforcing the British curriculum.

@ T'challa : I would never look down at africans, simply because I am myself african. During the course of my education in UAE, teachers came from different countries, but my English teacher was always british. I believe this is for a good reason.

@ Rascal : For us arabs, we don't see much difference between people coming from UK/scotland/wales/ireland/south africa/australia/new zealand and most of us can hardly point out the difference.

We were just worried and thought maybe someone would re-assure us if they were put in a similar situation. And as I mentioned above, we will wait till the orientation day and see how things go.


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## T'challa_Udaku (Nov 14, 2014)

A.Abbass said:


> I don't see how this is a silly question, Steve mentioned that if that happened in europe people would make a fuss about it, why would that make MY views uneducated ?
> 
> If English is the official language of Nigeria, and it is the same case with many other african countries, why don't we see british schools hiring more african teachers ?
> 
> ...


Lol. What can I say. Do you man


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## Nursemanit (Jul 10, 2015)

I would be more worried if the teacher was American ....


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## BedouGirl (Sep 15, 2011)

I think using the word 'native' is the issue. Kids I went to school with were all English speakers, but many weren't 'native' because of where their parents came from, however, technically, their first language was English. Perhaps if the nursery had used that term, it would have been more appropriate?


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## TallyHo (Aug 21, 2011)

People are jumping on Abbass too quickly.

Dubai is notorious for cutting corners to save money. 

Perhaps the Nigerian is a wonderful and experienced teacher. Perhaps she isn't. If I had children I'd also be worried not so much because of her country of origin but because with a British (or Australian or Kiwi) teacher I'd have some guarantee of proper certification and training in the UK. In theory, of course, it's still Dubai!

If the grammar of the spams from Nigeria are anything to go by, let's say I'm not impressed by Nigerian educational standards. 

On the nursery level it's probably not difficult to switch around schools or teachers if needed.


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## Stevesolar (Dec 21, 2012)

Hi,
I looked online for a definition of "native English speaker" 
Best definition of a native speaker that I could find was following:-
Someone who has ​spoken a ​particular ​language since they were a ​baby, ​rather than having ​learned it as a ​child or ​adult.
By that definition the school would be perfectly correct to use that term if all their teachers met the above definition (and in reality they probably do).
If you want to be really picky - then the differences between a native English speaker and the English spoken by a British citizen - who was brought up in the UK - can be quite noticeable.
As already mentioned - Americans speak a different English to Brits!
My wife was brought up and educated in India. She speaks better "Queens English" than I do - but occasionally uses old English words that I don't use and sometimes pronounces words slightly differently to how they are commonly pronounced in Britain.
Cheers
Steve


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## BBmover (Jun 15, 2013)

You could wait until orientation day which will give you the chance to meet the teacher and make your own decisions. Or you could ask for an informal meeting before orientation day? This would depend on how accommodating the nursery is.
The teacher has started a good process of building a relationship with you through an introductory email to begin the transition of your child starting at nursery. Not many nurseries may do this? 
While English language is your first priority you may also want to consider the personal and social development the nursery will provide with your child as this is the foundation to a positive learning experience. 
Starting your child in any nursery setting can be overwhelming but you are able to ask questions to have a better feel of how your child will adapt and develop.


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## A.Abbass (Jun 28, 2014)

Just wanted to add something, the nursery did not use the word (native). I will quote from their website, career section (and this is what they said they were following) :



> We require female Nursery and Foundation teachers who are Western Nationals (UK, USA, AUS, NZ, SA) and speak English as a first language.


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## BedouGirl (Sep 15, 2011)

A.Abbass said:


> Just wanted to add something, the nursery did not use the word (native). I will quote from their website, career section (and this is what they said they were following) :


Ok but you said native. Also, the way you presented this to the forum was that their website specified that the teachers were native English speakers. You didn't say that was what they said in the careers section. What they're advertising for doesn't mean that's what they have on staff. Is it the recruitment page that led you to think this or do they state it specifically on their website? If it's the recruitment page, it seems to me that you've just made an assumption.


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## A.Abbass (Jun 28, 2014)

BedouGirl said:


> Ok but you said native. Also, the way you presented this to the forum was that their website specified that the teachers were native English speakers. You didn't say that was what they said in the careers section. What they're advertising for doesn't mean that's what they have on staff. Is it the recruitment page that led you to think this or do they state it specifically on their website? If it's the recruitment page, it seems to me that you've just made an assumption.


I added (and this is what they said they were following). The administration told us teachers were both western nationals and speak English as the first language. I did not assume, this is what they promised.


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## The Rascal (Aug 6, 2014)

And to be fair, with a name like British Orchard, you'd kinda expect that too.


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## BedouGirl (Sep 15, 2011)

If it's any consolation, judging by the standard of the written English I see from some of the teachers posting on the forum, whose first language is English, I'm not sure how much of a difference it makes these days. I think what BBMover said makes a great deal of sense and is sound advice. The teacher has reached out to parents, which is probably a hell of a lot more than many do these days. If it's about accent, I'm not sure how much the accent of one teacher influences a child. The kids mix with all different nationalities and most of the children I've seen grow up here are very articulate with varying degrees of accents, most of which are neutral.


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## omar92 (Oct 8, 2013)

I would wait and see-judge and decide only after you meet with the teacher. 
Growing up overseas I attended a British school that followed the National Curriculum and ALL teachers were UK certified and I imagine there were very few non UK nationals. Can't recall any American or Australian teachers because although they would be native speakers their qualifications would be irrelevant in a British school. 
No matter how competent this Nigerian teacher is, if she is not UK certified then I would be worried especially if this is at one of the more prestigious schools in Dubai.


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## BBmover (Jun 15, 2013)

omar92 said:


> I would wait and see-judge and decide only after you meet with the teacher.
> Growing up overseas I attended a British school that followed the National Curriculum and ALL teachers were UK certified and I imagine there were very few non UK nationals. Can't recall any American or Australian teachers because although they would be native speakers their qualifications would be irrelevant in a British school.
> No matter how competent this Nigerian teacher is, if she is not UK certified then I would be worried especially if this is at one of the more prestigious schools in Dubai.


Not all teachers are required to be UK certified or trained to deliver a UK National curriculum. Majority of teachers are trained in other countries and may or may not have UK teaching experience. I've worked with teachers from UK, Ireland, Australia, NZ, South Africa, America, Canada and European and African nationalities who were more than competent in delivering a UK curriculum and adapting very well to it. Good International schools, as schools in any country, do not always employ a teacher based on their country of origin curriculum training but on their experience, references, qualifications, lesson observation, portfolio evidence and continuing professional development. Even if it is one of the more prestigious schools in Dubai.


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## Mr Rossi (May 16, 2009)

TallyHo said:


> If the grammar of the spams from Nigeria are anything to go by, let's say I'm not impressed by Nigerian educational standards.



I read they're purposely kept bad so they can filter out the non-suckers easier.


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## imac (Oct 14, 2012)

KaChow said:


> ...reflects on your uneducated views and the stereotypical thinking...


that was a pretty quick jump to an unfair conclusion without really trying to understand what the original poster was asking... 

think there are a couple of words that best describe your reaction... i believe they are "uneducated" and "stereotypical"...


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## Fat Bhoy Tim (Feb 28, 2013)

Stevesolar said:


> Hi,
> You really need to meet and talk with the teacher to see how her English is.
> Of course, the nursery are saving money by recruiting teachers from Nigeria - rather than the UK.
> In any European country people would kick up a fuss and complain about misrepresentation and dodgy advertising - here that would probably be a bit more difficult to do and may not get you anywhere.
> ...


What the man said.

Your concerns are fair, but meet them to be on the safe side. 

You can't decided until you do.


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## SummerGlow (Jun 18, 2013)

Shouldnt a nursery that prides itself in being British actually have British teachers?


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## The Rascal (Aug 6, 2014)

SummerGlow said:


> Shouldnt a nursery that prides itself in being British actually have British teachers?


Probably run by Indians who use the word "British" to suggest quality whilst cutting corners and employing the cheapest staff.

Colonialism, gotta love it.


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## SummerGlow (Jun 18, 2013)

The Rascal said:


> Probably run by Indians who use the word "British" to suggest quality whilst cutting corners and employing the cheapest staff.
> 
> Colonialism, gotta love it.


You're right, but common sense kind of suggests if 'British' is your selling point, you kinda have to have it somewhere.


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## The Rascal (Aug 6, 2014)

SummerGlow said:


> You're right, but common sense kind of suggests if 'British' is your selling point, you kinda have to have it somewhere.


Since when was "Common sense" part of the curriculum in Dubai?

(Did you see what I did there)?


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## rsinner (Feb 3, 2009)

And then people complain about racism in recruitment in UAE.
Jumping to conclusions about someone solely based on their linkedIn profile and nationality could count as one? 
If I remember correctly, Abbas you were at some point pi$$ed at someone for calling "Indians and Egyptians" petty  And also, when someone had called medical facilities in Egypt third rate (or something equivalent), you were quick to defend that. The only point I am trying to make is that you did generalise based on only one aspect of someone's professional qualifications.

My son has been in a nursery in Dubai and Abu Dhabi (and also from the same chain). Had "native" as well as "non native" teachers.
Native - one of them a bored housewife who did some certification and became a teacher. 2 native teachers who I will be very surprised who were not hung over when in class. A non native teacher who was pretty good. 
My son liked all of them and was happy, and did learn a bit in the process (+got to socialise with other kids). Its just a nursery - hardly a life altering decision.

And we had a horrible experience with one of the teachers - we pulled him out of the nursery after just one term. She was non native if that matters, but language was least of our concerns. SHe didn't know how to handle kids in general - fell into the bored housewife with a certification category.


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## imac (Oct 14, 2012)

rsinner said:


> ...Its just a nursery - hardly a life altering decision...


probably the most useful post in the whole damn thread...


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## A.Abbass (Jun 28, 2014)

The Rascal said:


> Probably run by Indians who use the word "British" to suggest quality whilst cutting corners and employing the cheapest staff.
> 
> Colonialism, gotta love it.


I met the principal and her assistant during the initial tour, they were both British.


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## A.Abbass (Jun 28, 2014)

rsinner said:


> And then people complain about racism in recruitment in UAE.
> Jumping to conclusions about someone solely based on their linkedIn profile and nationality could count as one?
> If I remember correctly, Abbas you were at some point pi$$ed at someone for calling "Indians and Egyptians" petty  And also, when someone had called medical facilities in Egypt third rate (or something equivalent), you were quick to defend that. The only point I am trying to make is that you did generalise based on only one aspect of someone's professional qualifications.
> 
> ...


I think you pick certain lines from my posts.

Regarding that egyptians/indians post, I did agree with the poster that they are trouble makers, something I can never deny. My concern was the racist remarks and describing whole nationalities as being worms et al.

And regarding the nursery, I elaborated earlier that I have no problem that teachers who teach various subjects can come from anywhere, in my case I particularly wanted an "English" teacher to teach my son "English" in a nursery that advertises itself as a "British" nursery. Recruiting the appropriate candidates for the correct positions is not racism imho.

I also mentioned more than once that we were waiting for the orientation and were just worried and wanted feedback from others. I did not jump into a conclusion based on the LinkedIn profile but was rather worried.


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## nite (Apr 11, 2012)

It's a damn nursery. Who cares. They'll be coloring and singing.


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## Racing_Goats (Sep 5, 2015)

nite said:


> It's a damn nursery. Who cares. They'll be coloring and singing.


You have kids? Not that it really matters


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## Edino (Sep 22, 2013)

Having followed this movement here.... I have just a little to say: I see absolutely see no issue with the concerns raised in Abbass original question. In this place we are everyday faced with the difference of what is promised and what is delivered; I think the concern raised is 100% correct; and if I had kids, I would be equally concerned.... regardless of the money I had to spend.


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## A.Abbass (Jun 28, 2014)

Just an update, we met the teacher during the orientation day (it was chaotic) and briefly today (first day at nursery) and we like her as a person. 

We are not that worried now although we cannot judge her as a teacher yet.


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## mehranR (Jul 27, 2013)

nite said:


> It's a damn nursery. Who cares. They'll be coloring and singing.


That's how we were brought up thinking that nurseries are for coloring and singing. Until I met a 6 year old boy who was doing multiplications. The school he was going to believed that the child's brain has no ceiling and once they found out what subjects the child shows more interest, then they would work on those subjects more. Of course for something like this, you cannot have a 1 teacher to 22 student practice model. It is more like 1 to 5 or 6. 
I don't know if it is a good model though, but I was very impressed by this little boy's math skills


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