# Refused/re-applied-refused again need help.



## Pultet (Sep 17, 2013)

hello everyone, I don't know what to say... I have my heart broken as i'm typing. 

We applied for fiance visa on April 2013, from manila. Application was Refused they have put in a lot of grounds of refusal and i understand that my shortcoming was i never gave an explanation.

However after 5 months we have re-applied again, we made sure that this time nothing is missing, we have provided everything possible... paid visa fee etc and i have made a 3 pages statement answering or giving clarifications to their grounds of refusal. We applied on 1 October and got the documents today, with a refusal letter.

Here is the decision.

Your application:

You have applied for an entry clearance as partner under appendix FM of the immigration rules. I have considered your application under Paragraph EC-P.1.1 of appendix FM of the united kingdom immigration rules. You can read these rules at: 

The Decision

English Language Requirement
ECO Reasons for refusals
To meet the current english language requirement for entry to the united kingdom, you are required to submit evidence that you have passed an acceptable test at a minumum level with an approved provider. You have submitted an IELTS certificate demonstrating an overall score of 4.0, however as of 18/07/2011 it became a mandatory requirement for spouse application to achieve a minimum of 7.0 in the listening and speaking components of IELTS or submit evidence that they have an academic qualification equivalent to a bachelor's degree in the UK which was taught in English. whilst your overall score was 4.0, you scored only 3.5 in the listening component of the examination.

I therefore refuse your application under paragraph EC-P.1.1(d) of appendix FM of the Immigration RUles. (E-ECP.4.1)

_______________________
*
I have therefore refused your application because i am not satisfied, on the balance of probabilities that you meet all of the requirements of the relavant Paragraph of the United Kingdom Immigration Rules. * (what do they mean by this?

They have given us 28 days to appeal. What should i do please help me. i am in a 7 year Long distance relationship with my fiance. it really is hard to be apart as i am not getting any younger! please help Me what to do, What next step should i take.

Thank you.


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## Lorelli (Jan 6, 2012)

Was the above given as the ECO's sole reason for refusing your partner's visa?
In which case, it simply means that according to the ECO's assessment, your partner's IELTS score is the element of the application that fails to meet Immigration Rules. Your partner needs to re-sit the IELTS certificate and achieve the score minimum of 7 to answer the grounds of refusal.
However, I believe that any new tests taken after the date of your application will count as new evidence and be rejected at appeal. Unless your partner already holds a UK bachelor degree equivalent, a fresh application will be needed. Make sure all requirements are met before you submit this time.


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## Pultet (Sep 17, 2013)

That's the only reason of his refusal for the second time... I'm not going to appeal as i son't have basis to do that but i'm planning to re-apply with the new test result of my fiance but, i don't know where do i go from here... Thank you for your reply lorelii


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## ppretty (Jun 13, 2013)

But they sound have mentioned that in the earlier refusal letter....this scares me. We also reapplied I hope they don't bring up new things which they never stated in the refusal letter.


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## Pultet (Sep 17, 2013)

ppretty said:


> But they sound have mentioned that in the earlier refusal letter....this scares me. We also reapplied I hope they don't bring up new things which they never stated in the refusal letter.


The scary part is that sometimes they don't mention it in the refusal letter what's missing or what you are required to do.


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## Lorelli (Jan 6, 2012)

Provided the next application shows evidence of the meeting of all UKBA requirements and addresses the issues previously cited in the refusals, there is no reason why it should not be successful. Good luck with the process. Third time lucky, they say!


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## Whatshouldwedo (Sep 29, 2013)

Pultet, I know you are devastated and I am so sorry to hear your application has been refused again. It does appear though that the only reason is the slightly below-acceptable score of your fiance's IELTS test. I guess that, like the financial requirements, you cannot fail to qualify by even the smallest margin. The only suggestion I can make is that she retake the test and you reapply.


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## Pultet (Sep 17, 2013)

Lorelli said:


> Provided the next application shows evidence of the meeting of all UKBA requirements and addresses the issues previously cited in the refusals, there is no reason why it should not be successful. Good luck with the process. Third time lucky, they say!


You mean... the first time that the application got refused and i answered all the refusal grounds which they never mentioned anything about the second refusal, does that means i have everything and covered everything? so if we re-apply with the better result of English requirement, are we gonna be fine?


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## Pultet (Sep 17, 2013)

Whatshouldwedo said:


> Pultet, I know you are devastated and I am so sorry to hear your application has been refused again. It does appear though that the only reason is the slightly below-acceptable score of your fiance's IELTS test. I guess that, like the financial requirements, you cannot fail to qualify by even the smallest margin. The only suggestion I can make is that she retake the test and you reapply.



Thank you... i really am devastated right now and i don't know where do i go from here, we have a applied twice and spent a lot of money already... i don't what to do.


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## Pultet (Sep 17, 2013)

Can anyone tell me please what score should my fiance meet to be qualified for the english requirement.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

While it's unfortunate that your partner has failed on a point not previously mentioned by ECO, it's still your responsibility to ensure all requirements are met. You clearly didn't see/know that your partner's IELTS score was below par (nor did we who've been helping you), and you have no choice but re-apply after passing the test. Score required is listed under English test on UKBA site.


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## WestCoastCanadianGirl (Mar 17, 2012)

Pultet said:


> Can anyone tell me please what score should my fiance meet to be qualified for the english requirement.


They told you in the letter... 7.0 or higher for listening and speaking... he scored 4.0 overall but only 3.5 in the listening component, so he's going to have to improve his English skills in order to get the necessary score.


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## Pultet (Sep 17, 2013)

in addition the second page it says,

your right of appeal

you are entitled to appeal against this decision under section 82(1) of the nationality, immigration and asylum act 2002. if you wish to appeal you must complete the attached IAFT-2 Notice of appeal form. an information sheet has also been provided. should you require further advice or assistance please visit Justice.gov.uk

if you decide to appeal against the refusal of this application, the decision will be reviewed with your grounds of appeal and the supporting documents you provide. you are strongly advised to complete all sections of the form and submit all relevant documents with your notice of appeal, as it may be possible to resolve the points at issue without an appeal hearing.

the complete notice of appeal form must arrive no later than 28 days after the date you received this notice and you must make sure that it is signed and dated.

What do they mean by *"you are strongly advised to complete all sections of the form and submit all relevant documents with your notice of appeal, as it may be possible to resolve the points at issue without an appeal hearing."*

Joppa and Nyclon please


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## Pultet (Sep 17, 2013)

Joppa said:


> While it's unfortunate that your partner has failed on a point not previously mentioned by ECO, it's still your responsibility to ensure all requirements are met. You clearly didn't see/know that your partner's IELTS score was below par (nor did we who've been helping you), and you have no choice but re-apply after passing the test. Score required is listed under English test on UKBA site.


Joppa in the first refused application we never submitted any IELTS so when the first refusal came they never mentioned anything about IELTS.

Now, with regards to the previous application refused they have so many grounds of refusal, from doubting our relationship to doubts about my the person i sponsored before etc... however when i re-applied i have answered all their grounds of refusal i made a statement addressing all their refusal grounds. in the second refusal letter they never mentioned anything about the previous one, does that means that they accepted my explanation? 

if my fiance meets and scored the required score, can we re-apply at anytime just providing the new English certificate? together with all the documents? or do i have to include the latest such as payslip, bank statement again?


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## Pultet (Sep 17, 2013)

WestCoastCanadianGirl said:


> They told you in the letter... 7.0 or higher for listening and speaking... he scored 4.0 overall but only 3.5 in the listening component, so he's going to have to improve his English skills in order to get the necessary score.


Hello, i can't find 7.0 in the letter.. but i can see that they require 4.0 in listening and speaking does that means, he can score whatever in reading and writing as long as he gets 4.0 in listening/speaking?

Joppa, i cannot find the required score at the UKBA site.


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## Pultet (Sep 17, 2013)

if they have not mention anything about the previous refusal letter does that means, i have satisfied them with my answer? 

sorry i have so many questions.


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## daisy m (Sep 2, 2013)

Pultet said:


> Hello, i can't find 7.0 in the letter.. but i can see that they require 4.0 in listening and speaking does that means, he can score whatever in reading and writing as long as he gets 4.0 in listening/speaking?
> 
> Joppa, i cannot find the required score at the UKBA site.


I feel sorry for you pultet. My understanding about minimum score on ielts for spouse visa is you need to pass the B-1 level with 4.0 on listening and speaking (as told by VFS officer). 7.0 is for C-1 level.


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## ubernell (Oct 12, 2013)

From the letter you quoted: "however as of 18/07/2011 it became a mandatory requirement for spouse application to *achieve a minimum of 7.0 in the listening and speaking components* of IELTS or submit evidence that they have an academic qualification equivalent to a bachelor's degree in the UK which was taught in English"


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## Pultet (Sep 17, 2013)

ubernell said:


> From the letter you quoted: "however as of 18/07/2011 it became a mandatory requirement for spouse application to *achieve a minimum of 7.0 in the listening and speaking components* of IELTS or submit evidence that they have an academic qualification equivalent to a bachelor's degree in the UK which was taught in English"


Sorry my mistake, i meant 4.0


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## Pultet (Sep 17, 2013)

daisy m said:


> I feel sorry for you pultet. My understanding about minimum score on ielts for spouse visa is you need to pass the B-1 level with 4.0 on listening and speaking (as told by VFS officer). 7.0 is for C-1 level.


Thank you.. Re-applying or taking the exam again is not a problem now but the expenses of re-applying is what frustrates me. We have apent so much just to be refused twice.


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## LDE8N (Aug 8, 2012)

This whole process is a headache, I hope everything goes well from now on. 

You can get the information about the English requirements here. 

UK Border Agency | English language requirement

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitecontent/applicationforms/new-approved-english-tests.pdf

Its my understanding that he can score a 0 for Reading and Writing and it wouldn't matter but Id advice him to study if he needs to and aim for at least a 4.0 in all areas just to be safe. Always check the UKBA website for updates because things change. As of right now he has to score 4.0 at least for Listening and Speaking. The overall band score doesn't matter either.


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## bluesky2015 (Sep 3, 2013)

GABII said:


> This whole process is a headache, I hope everything goes well from now on.
> 
> You can get the information about the English requirements here.
> 
> ...


Sorry to just jump in. I recently got refused based on two points, financial and English language. I can understand the financial part of it but I have been graduated from one of the Universities in the US and I inclosed my original plus copy of my degree certificate but they did not even accept that. As I read on the UKBA website that if you have studied in the US then you are exempt from the language requirement but they still said that i do not meet that part. I am very concern when I re-apply again, what if they say the same thing and do not even bother to look at my degree.. It really frustrating..


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## cc9 (Oct 29, 2012)

Pultlet I feel your pain as it is the same as mine. We received our second refusal today also  the ECO deemed our relationship not to be subsisting our genuine and suspected we do not intend to live together permanently in the UK 
We supplied tonnes of relationship evidence however my husbands refusal last year for a family visit visa was a serious one so I think they have used this old chestnut as an excuse as the rest of our application was water tight.......
3 months if waiting for an answer and now probably a year to wait for an appeal...... I wish you all the best for your new application, today is a dark day but we pick ourselves up, dust ourselves down and live to fight another day


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## LDE8N (Aug 8, 2012)

waiting.stars said:


> Sorry to just jump in. I recently got refused based on two points, financial and English language. I can understand the financial part of it but I have been graduated from one of the Universities in the US and I inclosed my original plus copy of my degree certificate but they did not even accept that. As I read on the UKBA website that if you have studied in the US then you are exempt from the language requirement but they still said that i do not meet that part. I am very concern when I re-apply again, what if they say the same thing and do not even bother to look at my degree.. It really frustrating..


Is the degree you hold equivalent to a UK bachelor's degree? If its not then that was your mistake. It has to be equal or higher otherwise they wont take it. If its all in order then you have nothing to worry about. If they happen to refuse your application based on that again you can let the ECO know that you have enclosed your degree. You have to make sure its equivalent to a UK bachelor's degree.

https://www.naric.org.uk/NARIC/Orga...nal Grade Comparisons Demonstration Guide.pdf


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## Pultet (Sep 17, 2013)

cc9 said:


> Pultlet I feel your pain as it is the same as mine. We received our second refusal today also  the ECO deemed our relationship not to be subsisting our genuine and suspected we do not intend to live together permanently in the UK
> We supplied tonnes of relationship evidence however my husbands refusal last year for a family visit visa was a serious one so I think they have used this old chestnut as an excuse as the rest of our application was water tight.......
> 3 months if waiting for an answer and now probably a year to wait for an appeal...... I wish you all the best for your new application, today is a dark day but we pick ourselves up, dust ourselves down and live to fight another day


Sorry to hear about your refusal guess we share the same sentiments... I know someday we will get this right and finally be with the love of our life. I like your nice and positive attitude... Goodluck to you too


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## bluesky2015 (Sep 3, 2013)

GABII said:


> Is the degree you hold equivalent to a UK bachelor's degree? If its not then that was your mistake. It has to be equal or higher otherwise they wont take it. If its all in order then you have nothing to worry about. If they happen to refuse your application based on that again you can let the ECO know that you have enclosed your degree. You have to make sure its equivalent to a UK bachelor's degree.
> 
> https://www.naric.org.uk/NARIC/Orga...nal Grade Comparisons Demonstration Guide.pdf


Thank you GABII for your kind reply. Do I have to send my degree to NARIC or is there a way I can find out if my degree is equal to UK;s standards??. I checked the PDF file you have included in your post, and I thought i can find that on the NARIC but was not able to...
I will appreciate if you could future help me with this..Thank you again for your time..


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## pinaylove (Sep 20, 2013)

hello pultet?

sorry to hear your refusal..... i just want to suggest for your fiance to take TOEIC exam its pretty easy than ielts ,,,,ielts is B1 level...and the ukba reqs is A1 level for TOEIC. its located in makati hopkins international...



Regards...


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## lzzjp (Oct 19, 2013)

I think it is unnecessary. Many Europeans migrate to UK without even speaking basic English.
I can't understand UKBA logic.


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## LDE8N (Aug 8, 2012)

waiting.stars said:


> Thank you GABII for your kind reply. Do I have to send my degree to NARIC or is there a way I can find out if my degree is equal to UK;s standards??. I checked the PDF file you have included in your post, and I thought i can find that on the NARIC but was not able to...
> I will appreciate if you could future help me with this..Thank you again for your time..


You didnt find it on the NARIC website because you have to apply and pay for this service. Here is the link were you can read all about it. 

NARIC - Statement of Comparability

You can apply by post or by fax. 



> The turnaround time for the Statement of Comparability is 15 working days from the date of receipt of all required documentation and payment.
> 
> The cost of the service is £46.00 + VAT* (£55.20) per application.
> 
> If you are applying from an address outside of the EU, you are not required to pay VAT.


From what I remember the English IELTS I took was cheaper than this and it is not difficult but since you already have a degree taught in English then this wouldn't be a bad service to buy since I imagine you can use it in the future to obtain jobs in the field of your degree. There is a risk though because your degree might not be equivalent to a UK Bachelors degree and you will have to take the test.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Not every degree awarded by US university is considered as equivalent to UK bachelor's, so going through NARIC is often necessary.


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## bluesky2015 (Sep 3, 2013)

GABII said:


> You didnt find it on the NARIC website because you have to apply and pay for this service. Here is the link were you can read all about it.
> 
> NARIC - Statement of Comparability
> 
> ...


Thank you for the link GABII. In the beginning when I got my refusal and i made a call to NARIC, they said that if you studied in the US and have a degree then we do not process because its a degree which is already thought in English, plus, most of my friends whom graduated from the same school, their degrees where recognized and they were accepted for the advance degrees in the UKs' prestige schools....O God, its so frustrating. But I will call them again on Monday and see what they say... Thank you again for the information. I highly appreciate it..


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## bluesky2015 (Sep 3, 2013)

Dear GABII, 

This is what i read on the UKB :
The applicant will meet the language requirement if they;
1) have obtained acacademic qualification recognised by the National Academic Recognition Information Centre for the UK (UK NARIC) to be equivalent to the standard of a Bachelor’s or Master’s degree or PhD in the UK. If your qualification was taken in one of these countries, we will assume that it was taught in English: Antigua and
Barbuda, Australia, the Bahamas, Barbados, Belize, Dominica, ,Grenada, Guyana, Ireland, Jamaica, New Zealand, St Kitts and Nevis, St Lucia, St Vincent and the Grenadines, Trinidad and Tobago, the UK, the USA

If an academic qualification has been taught by one of the majority English speaking countries listed at paragraph 3.1 with the exception of Canada we will assume it to have been taught in English If an applicant is claiming that they have completed an academic qualification taught in English, they must provide the original academic qualification certificate (provisional academic qualification certificates are not acceptable),
showing:
• the applicant’s name;
• the title of award;
• the date of award; and
• the name of the awarding institution.

My degree certificate had all the above bullet points..

Thank you again...


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## Pultet (Sep 17, 2013)

Joppa please answer my questions


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## bluesky2015 (Sep 3, 2013)

Joppa said:


> Not every degree awarded by US university is considered as equivalent to UK bachelor's, so going through NARIC is often necessary.


Thank you Joppa for your kind suggestion..I appreciate it..


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## LDE8N (Aug 8, 2012)

waiting.stars said:


> Dear GABII,
> 
> This is what i read on the UKB :
> The applicant will meet the language requirement if they;
> ...


The ECO might have overlooked it or it is not equivalent to a UK bachelors degree. I wouldn't risk getting refused because of an assumption that it is equivalent and that it is acceptable just because it was taught in US. It is best to get confirmation of this from NARIC and include it on your next application or take an approved English test.


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## Pultet (Sep 17, 2013)

Pultet said:


> in addition the second page it says,
> 
> your right of appeal
> 
> ...


Can anyone please answer my question about the red quote.

Also, Since i have answered the questions on the 1st refusal grounds and in the second Refusal letter they have not mention anything about the first refusal grounds, does that means that they are satisfied with all the documents i provided except that we need to provide the English certificate with a higher score?


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## cc9 (Oct 29, 2012)

Hi putlet, I know this is a nerve wracking time as I too am helping prepare my hubbies appeal.
All that statement means is that you are advised to ensure that you complete the form correctly and include any evidence in support of your position. Before your appeal goes before a judge the ECM will have another chance to look at your case. If you provide evidence in relation to their reasons for refusal there may be a chance they over turn their decision before it goes to court. If you are appealing you only need to address the issues arising from your current refusal however if you decide to reapply I would ensure that you have addressed all the points from both refusals..
Good luck


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## juhi (Jul 7, 2013)

Oh! Its just a heart breaking news even for me. I missed ur posts as i was busy in submitting mine. I hope by now u have cleared ur doubts, just wish All the best of luck this time.


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## Shingirayi Robson (Nov 18, 2013)

O_0 confused!!! I thought the required band score was 4.0???? Where does 7 for speaking and listening come in? Tjo! I got a 9 for speaking but a 6.0 for listening and my overall band score was 7.0. So is this a fail? If the requirement is 7.0 for listening? Forgive me if I've misunderstood... Please clarify.


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## mrs jav (Aug 17, 2013)

Pultet said:


> Can anyone tell me please what score should my fiance meet to be qualified for the english requirement.


if they do the ket exam in your country ask her to do it,its easy than ilets,it will give her degree A1 or A2,


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