# Will a non BEE person have problems working in S.A



## DannyBoy (Apr 29, 2009)

Hello

I left S.A 16 years ago and have been wanting to return for the last two years. 
I work in I.T (medical Insurance, Banking, Retail). 

What is the work environment like these days for Non-Afirmative-Action (non BEE) candidates.

Will there be any hostility and jealousy, could you get attacked (Verbally or physically) at work or is there still a semblance of professionalism left in the corporate work place?.

What action can you take should you encounter any hostility, name calling or aggression?

Thanks for your help with this.


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## Halo (May 8, 2008)

Not at all.... I'm sure they will be glad to have you back. From the handful of people I know back there (most in IT) I mostly get good news - Sure the big boss might be some AA appointment but that's South Africa. One thing you need to remember is that workers rights/duties etc etc are not like they are abroad so pick your company carefully. (the only real downside)


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## JulianQ101 (Jul 17, 2009)

DannyBoy said:


> Hello
> 
> Will there be any hostility and jealousy, could you get attacked (Verbally or physically) at work or is there still a semblance of professionalism left in the corporate work place?.
> 
> ...


Actually I would say SA has advanced levels of workplace rights legislation (with the exception that employers may use 'fair' discrimination based on race). You basically are protected by the law if you are verbally attacked or picked on. While I'm sure any company anywhere in the world could have problems, overall I would say workplace relations are professional between co-workers in SA. 

The only challenge or frustration you might encounter is when you run into the 'fair' discrimination rule when you aren't allowed to apply for certain jobs because you are white or you are passed over for promotion once you are working. At times, some AA co-workers might get paid more or get promotions ahead of you. It's not the end of the world and there are obviously some very well qualified AA employees in all companies.

But you have nothing to fear about working in a SA company.


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## Thatch22 (Aug 12, 2009)

No, BEE is for companies. And you will have a good change.

Do you already have a job in SA?? Otherwhise I have a adress for you at PA sa, Software. There are looking for good people.

good luck

Regards,
Annemieke


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## Halo (May 8, 2008)

JulianQ101 said:


> Actually I would say SA has advanced levels of workplace rights legislation (with the exception that employers may use 'fair' discrimination based on race).


If you are lucky - A mate who moved back from the UK (before leaving for OZ a couple of years later) was worked like dog compared to the UK - I'm sure that in LARGE corporations its different but SMB's are another beast in SA with everyone try to get the last buck out.


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## Halo (May 8, 2008)

Thatch22 said:


> No, BEE is for companies. And you will have a good change.
> 
> Do you already have a job in SA?? Otherwhise I have a adress for you at PA sa, Software. There are looking for good people.
> 
> ...


Cough Cough..... A *change *you will have? Secure something first!


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## Thatch22 (Aug 12, 2009)

*??*



Halo said:


> Cough Cough..... A *change *you will have? Secure something first!


Explain this. What do you mean??


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## Halo (May 8, 2008)

Thatch22 said:


> Explain this. What do you mean??


Read your original email...... perhaps it was a Freudian slip


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## Thatch22 (Aug 12, 2009)

??????????? Explain what you mean.


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## Halo (May 8, 2008)

LOL.... Did you actually mean good change - not chance? (I was unsure about the English due to you being of Dutch decent)

PS Google Freudian slip... you may find it amusing.


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## Thatch22 (Aug 12, 2009)

Yes, I know what Freudian slip means. And yes I made a mistake. It must be chance!
And indeed Englisch is not my first lingo. 

regards from a sunny SA
Annemieke


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## Halo (May 8, 2008)

Thatch22 said:


> Yes, I know what Freudian slip means. And yes I made a mistake. It must be chance!
> And indeed Englisch is not my first lingo.
> 
> regards from a sunny SA
> Annemieke


There you go then....

Regards from a sunny and safe OZ
Karl


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## Darko (May 6, 2009)

DannyBoy said:


> Hello
> 
> I left S.A 16 years ago and have been wanting to return for the last two years.
> I work in I.T (medical Insurance, Banking, Retail).
> ...


If you have skills in emand, you will be 100%. No hostility or any other rubbish that you mention.


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## JaniceKing (Aug 9, 2009)

*I too am looking to return*

I left 10 years ago and wish to return to be with my family ( I have a baby grandaughter) does anyone know or can anyone offer advice or help as to how I can go about finding a job in Jo'burg in the Training industry.
I am a soft skills/mamagement/leadership trainer.
any help will be very gratefully recieved.
Janice King




DannyBoy said:


> Hello
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## JaniceKing (Aug 9, 2009)

*I too am looking to return*

I left 10 years ago and wish to return to be with my family ( I have a baby grandaughter) does anyone know or can anyone offer advice or help as to how I can go about finding a job in Jo'burg in the Training industry.
I am a soft skills/management/leadership trainer.
Any help will be very gratefully recieved.
Janice King




DannyBoy said:


> Hello
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## JoziJoe (Mar 21, 2008)

DannyBoy said:


> Hello
> 
> I left S.A 16 years ago and have been wanting to return for the last two years.
> I work in I.T (medical Insurance, Banking, Retail).
> ...


In 2005, BEE was still very prominent in IT Banking work environments. Most people don't realise that BEE, Black Economic Empowerment, (also known as Affirmative Action or Racism in Reverse) is an official policy enforced by legislation. If Employers don't employ a certain ratio of Blacks (excluding Coloureds or Asians) vs Whites at a given date, *they cannot continue trading*, it is as simple as that. 

A lot of IT Banking Sectors were outsourced to private companies on contract basis. These private companies would then ensure correct ratio of Black vs White employees by merging with other businesses who employ black majorities. 

So, as an outsourced IT specialist, you could find yourself transferred from corporate banking to contracting. Should your job "tip the ratio scales", you could face redundancy.

It brought about strict and very professional work ethics though, as a previously secure, corporate Banking IT employee you now became a service provider with an expiry date, a guest on your previous employers premises. 

From that aspect I found the SA IT Corporate Banking environment highly demanding, politically correct and very professional, certainly more professional than overseas. Auckland New Zealand IT environments lack professionalism and work ethics such as racism in the workplace are appalling. The anti Asian sentiment is openly expressed in the workplace, aggressive racism on a level I never experienced in South Africa.


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## jonathanb (Apr 26, 2008)

Why come back anyway, do you miss the crime, filth, poverty, corruption etc, etc. To answer your question, yes BEE will affect you simple as that. You will be overlooked for someone with less skills than yourself and if you are lucky enough to get a job you will not only be doing your job but more than likley also the job of your affirmative action boss who does not have a about what he really should be doing.


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## DannyBoy (Apr 29, 2009)

*QUestion for Halo*



Halo said:


> Cough Cough..... A *change *you will have? Secure something first!



Halo, do you think it's not a good idea to return to S.A?
I do not have a job there, or even a place to stay. Am trying to find a cheap furnished apartment in Cape Town from which to conduct my jobsearch.
Do you think living there would be pretty bad?
I've been away from S.A since April 1993.

Have been thinking of heading back since my sister died of cancer. 

Thanks
Dan


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## bryan buys (Sep 27, 2008)

hi guys 

I have been live in the UK for 6 years and think that you may work harder in SA but there is much better regarding working ethics. SA do have shortage of skills in some disciplines.

I am currently looking to go back in the the next 1 to 2 years. 

good luck for the job hunt

regards bryan


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## Halo (May 8, 2008)

bryan buys said:


> hi guys
> 
> I have been live in the UK for 6 years and think that you may work harder in SA but there is much better regarding working ethics.


How so? (if I understood your sentence correctly)


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## DannyBoy (Apr 29, 2009)

*Response to Darko*



Darko said:


> If you have skills in emand, you will be 100%. No hostility or any other rubbish that you mention.



So Darko, what you're saying is that the blogs I've been reading in the S.A. forums are bogus??
The Afrikaans girl in Pretoria who got told by 2 BEE candidates that "THIS IS NOT YOUR COUNTRY..YOU DON'T BELONG HERE".....is FICTION?

Senior people being replaced by less skilled BEE candidtaes........FICTION??
Etc and etc.

I'm gonna go book my airticket right now. It sounds like I don't need to do any research before coming back to the NEW SOUTH AFRICA.
Heck I'll just go blindly back to this wonderful new Utopia where people are going to WELCOME ME BACK WITH OPEN ARMS.......

""OTHER RUBBISH THAT YOU MENTION"...............????
I guess trying to find out if I'll even stand a chance of getting a job and the current work environment is RUBBISH, according to you?

I think your response already answered my question of what to expect DARK-ou.
Good to know. Thanks for the response.


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## JoziJoe (Mar 21, 2008)

Hi Danny
I don't wish to answer or defend on behalf of Darko, but I'm butting in nonetheless.

Mainly because I am in a similar frame of mind as you, analysing the possibilities of returning to SA.

Darko has presented some pretty balanced posts in other threads, I may be wrong but I think his remark was one of personal perspective, rather than trying to lure you into a false sense of security.

As a non-BEE person, skills that are *truly *in demand will present you with a sporting chance, most likely as a contractor providing a service to the particular areas of employment you mentioned. Contract roles have the drawback of an expiry date but offer protective mechanisms, such as unions, against abuse in the workplace. In the past, Workers Unions in South Africa were generally seen as "toothless dogs" but we found them quite useful since BEE was introduced.

Racial abuse in the SA Corporate working environment is rare, generally I found this particular aspect of SA working environment highly professional, much more professional than overseas, where racism is openly expressed in the working place! (In other words, in SA "you would not dare")

However, you have been away for a long time and there are certain things you will have to adapt to. Contracting in these disciplines are highly demanding, what other people (who are not used to it) refer to as "working like a dog", even with union protection, you could get caught in a trap of not being able to justify long hours for money. However, I have found the same "trend" overseas, especially if you are an immigrant!

Yes, I have heard there is racial abuse, pecking order issues, ganging up of black work groups by refusing to communicate information to white members of the group, in non corporate environments. I have experienced similar forms of discrimination in the overseas corporate workplace just because I am an immigrant, and let me tell you, being a true born South African immigrant in countries with a large British presence presents it's own peculiar obstacles! 

It's a trade off *as long as you can find work*. We would never have left SA if we had secure employment. As long as you have a job, you can afford 24 hour security! Yes, life in SA is risky because of crime but a lot of South Africans have no choice but to adapt and take that risk. Personally, being unemployed is a lot more scary than facing crime.


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## Halo (May 8, 2008)

JoziJoe said:


> Personally, being unemployed is a lot more scary than facing crime.


In South Africa - Yes


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## bryan buys (Sep 27, 2008)

Halo said:


> How so? (if I understood your sentence correctly)





Halo said:


> How so? (if I understood your sentence correctly)



i have been working at a architectural design practice. and as the recession hit London they increased our working hours with 2 hours a day(no extra mony and no over time). they don't like you taking a 1 hour lunch and on top of that they made 10 out of the 18 strong department redundant. i have to start at 7 am each day and i finsh at 6:30 - 7:00pm .... i know people work hard in SA but the labour laws prevent people of taking advantage of there employees. 


i can go on for very long but i do believe with all the faults on SA have it is still a very very good option and i can hopefully help to make it stronger 


ps sorry for the spelling i am originality Afrikaans

r


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## Halo (May 8, 2008)

bryan buys said:


> i have been working at a architectural design practice. and as the recession hit London they increased our working hours with 2 hours a day(no extra mony and no over time). they don't like you taking a 1 hour lunch and on top of that they made 10 out of the 18 strong department redundant. i have to start at 7 am each day and i finsh at 6:30 - 7:00pm .... i know people work hard in SA but the labour laws prevent people of taking advantage of there employees.
> 
> 
> i can go on for very long but i do believe with all the faults on SA have it is still a very very good option and i can hopefully help to make it stronger
> ...


No worries, you should see what my Afrikaans is like  - I lived in the UK for 15 years and there are good times and then there are bad times..... You just have to save for the bad times which will always come no matter what country you're in.

I believe SA's finished but there will always be a demand for skilled individuals who will make money but you have to live under certain conditions which some accept. Who knows.... it may all end up roses (fingers crossed) but as I keep saying, its a gamble I'm not prepared to take.

Geen probleem :eyebrows:


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## JoziJoe (Mar 21, 2008)

Halo said:


> Who knows.... it may all end up roses (fingers crossed) but as I keep saying, its a gamble I'm not prepared to take.
> 
> Geen probleem :eyebrows:



Must have been your exit statement when you fled the UK! Shortly after that you had to run from South Africa to Australia, where will you go next? You are running out of colonies fast.


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## JoziJoe (Mar 21, 2008)

Halo said:


> I believe SA's finished but there will always be a demand for skilled individuals who will make money but you have to live under certain conditions which some accept. Who knows.... it may all end up roses (fingers crossed) but as I keep saying, its a gamble I'm not prepared to take.


I can't believe so many Brits still buy the "skilled individuals" crap! We all know immigration in both New Zealand and Australia is just a huge money spinner, they don't need your skills, they have done just fine with their own, they just want your British pound, that's all. Immigration stimulates their economy. Talk about gullible!


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## JoziJoe (Mar 21, 2008)

Edited post, unable to delete above post


Halo said:


> I believe SA's finished but there *will always be a demand for skilled individuals who will make money *but you have to live under certain conditions which some accept. Who knows.... it may all end up roses (fingers crossed) but as I keep saying, its a gamble I'm not prepared to take.


I can't believe so many Brits still buy the "skilled individuals" crap! We all know immigration, New Zealand and Australia being a good example, is just a huge money spinner, they don't need your skills, they need your British pound, that's all. Immigration stimulates their economy. Talk about gullible! Once you reach the workfront in any country, you have to compete with the locals for work, no matter how skilled you are, and the current SA has huge unemployment and ratio obstacles, competition for work in recessionary SA is fierce compared to NZ or Oz. It's no longer the haven for unemployed and unskilled British immigrants as it was during the Apartheid era!


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## Thatch22 (Aug 12, 2009)

SA people working hard?? The weekend for a lot of people starts already on the friday around 2.00 p.m. In Europe the weekend start around 5.oo or 6.oo p.m.
And in a lot of countries in the EU there are strong labour laws. And for sure in the UK!
Always in crisis they just try and if you say NO! You lose your job. That is black mail!! Chantage dus!
greetz


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