# Length of stay between ESTA VWP visits HELP!



## estaadvice (Dec 17, 2015)

Ok so! I went to the USA originally for just under 3weeks at the very end of September this year. I ended up extending my trip and stay for 73 days. I was visiting a friend which has then turned into a relationship. I was planning to go back to the US in February 2 months after my original visit and we thought there would be no problem with this but since returning to the UK have read that I may get turned back. I have no real ties to the UK as I dont work and I live with my mother. I do have enough savings to fund a return trip to the states however and obviously a return ticket. 
I wanted to return for close to the 90days that I thought were allowed but am now worried that will automatically raise flags so instead would book for between 3-4 weeks. I would not be working nor do I want to live in the US. My question is really for advice and experience from others that have made multiple trips back and forth for long periods of time. It is so hard trying to decipher what counts as a reasonable length of time away.


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## Davis1 (Feb 20, 2009)

stay out for a minimum 90 days ....with no employment and no reason to return your chances of entry would be slim if you return to quickly


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## Crawford (Jan 23, 2011)

Davis1 said:


> stay out for a minimum 90 days ....with no employment and no reason to return your chances of entry would be slim if you return to quickly


Agree - you don't want the authorities to think you are trying to live in the US on the VWP


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## estaadvice (Dec 17, 2015)

Does anyone know if there is somewhere I can see the statistics for the amount of people that are sent back at POE. I think that might help me calm my nerves. 
The way I look at it is that its down to luck. I could wait 6months to return and get sent to secondary or I could go back in 2 weeks and get through no problem or visa versa. Just would like peoples experiences really.


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## Davis1 (Feb 20, 2009)

Your choice ... you either get thru 
or you never get back in 

its not a game


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## Bellthorpe (Jun 23, 2013)

estaadvice said:


> Ok so! I went to the USA originally for just under 3weeks at the very end of September this year. I ended up extending my trip and stay for 73 days.


How many days were given you on your I-94. In other words, did you exceed the duration given you by the officer who interviewed you on arrival?


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## BBCWatcher (Dec 28, 2012)

You could invite your romantic interest to visit the United Kingdom. The planes fly in both directions.


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## estaadvice (Dec 17, 2015)

I was given 90days. It was a stamp in my passport....didnt receive any kind of form other than what i filled in on the plane and handed over to them at the desk. I didnt get that form back. I didnt exceed my stay and I do have good reasons as to why I extended my trip.

As for planes working both ways this is very true and he has a british passport as well as American unfortunately at the moment he is not in the position to return to the UK, he can but that wont happen until atleast after the summer.


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## BBCWatcher (Dec 28, 2012)

For reference, I-94 forms are mostly obsolete. They're not used any more for air and sea arrivals into the U.S. I'm not sure why the I-94 was mentioned here, but you answered the relevant question (90 day entry stamp).

One "rule of thumb" is to stay outside North America more than 50% of the time and, particularly if you had a long stay (such as your 73 day stay), to let at least 90 days elapse before attempting to reenter. You are correct that there's _always_ a risk of being denied entry if you're a foreigner attempting to visit the United States. However, other posters are also correct that the risk is higher as you get closer to or actually violate that "rule of thumb." As pointed out, once you've been denied entry it's at least very difficult to get a second chance -- and you've torched your ESTA privileges.

Your romantic interest has zero stay limitations in the United Kingdom, so that's where you can safely meet without risk to your (limited) U.S. visa waiver privileges. That's even better than I expected and quite helpful. Unfortunately U.S. CBP does not take your romantic interest's U.K. travel schedule preferences into account in making its decision whether to admit you into the United States.


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## Bellthorpe (Jun 23, 2013)

BBCWatcher said:


> For reference, I-94 forms are mostly obsolete. They're not used any more for air and sea arrivals into the U.S. I'm not sure why the I-94 was mentioned here, ...


I mentioned I-94 because any arrival by a foreigner creates an I-94 record. You're correct, the *forms* are mostly obsolete. I didn't refer to a form or card. I said:

"_How many days were given you on your I-94_"

A record is still created, and it is the I-94 record, not the visa (or waived visa) that determines how long you can stay. The interviewing officer will of course take the visa into account when determining the allowed duration of stay.

The foreign passport has a DHS/CBP stamp that says 'class' in which is written the visa type (which might be VWP) and 'until' which is the date until which you may stay in the US. This is a manifestation of the person's I-94 record.

Looking at recent entries in my own current passport, I have a visa that expires on 15 June 2016. My I-94 records have expiry dates of 27 March 2017, 11 June 2017, 15 June 2016 and 15 June 2016.

With hindsight, I should have clarified that, as a casual traveller is unlikely, these days, to know what an I-94 record is. Although I did re-phrase the question, correctly, as "_did you exceed the duration given you by the officer who interviewed you on arrival_?"


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## BBCWatcher (Dec 28, 2012)

> With hindsight, I should have clarified that, as a casual traveller is unlikely, these days, to know what an I-94 record is.


_Every_ traveler arriving by sea and air either has no idea what you're asking about or would answer "there's no date on my I-94 because there's no I-94 -- we don't fill out I-94s any more." Form I-94 was phased out for all air and sea arrivals in 2013. An "I-94 record" is now only an entry in CBP's back office database (except for land border arrivals), and you can't expect any traveler to know that.

No clarification is required. Just never ask about an I-94 (unless it's a land border arrival). Simply ask what the stamp in the passport says. With that, everybody will know what you're asking.


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## Bellthorpe (Jun 23, 2013)

I would suggest that the I-94 record is a little more significant than "an entry in CBP's back office database". Although it's not relevant to the OP, anyone who is looking to change status, apply for permanent residence and so on (almost every new poster to this sub-forum) will need to provide I-94 details.

In recent times I have had to provide the I-94 Arrival-Departure Record Number on:

I-765 (Work Permit)
I-485 (Permanent Residence or Adjust Status)
I-140 (Immigrant Petition)
I-134 (Affidavit of Support)
TSA Alien Flight Training Program application
Washington DC Driver's License application


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