# Fasting or not.



## MaidenScotland

If you don't fast during Ramadan in Egypt, lie about it; hide it. Otherwise, you might land in jail.

Tarek Elshabini, a 21-year-old engineering student, is Muslim, but only according to his personal ID card. Every year comes Ramadan, he faces a dilemma: he doesn't fast because he's an atheist, but everyone, including police officers, expects him to fast because he was born to a Muslim family.

In order to avoid any possible clashes between Elshabini and his family due to his non-religious credos, he decided to move away for a while until his family is able to live with this new reality. Most families, in what was called the most religious country in the world by Gallup, would find it bitter to swallow the fact that their son does not believe God exists.

Elshabini managed to find a job in Hurghada as a bar tender in a night club to make his getaway, and on his second day in the tourist city of the Red Sea, he had to go to the police station to issue a criminal record required by his new employer. After a few hours of struggling with governmental bureaucracy, Elshabini got his clean criminal record and was out of the police station at noon.

To kill his thirst, Elshabini stopped at the kiosk across from the police station for a soda. He stood there, bought a can of soda and lit a cigarette. Elshabini had no idea that last Ramadan at least 150 people were arrested in Aswan and Hurghada, where he just arrived, for eating, drinking or/and smoking in broad daylight during Ramadan. This was new and it was the first time this happens in Egypt.

It wasn't the last time though. This year, two micro-bus drivers were also arrested in Cairo for the same reason. A Ramadan crackdown was also carried out by police officers in Hurghada to arrest those who eat, smoke or drink publicly before sunset.

While Elshabini was smoking his cigarette and drinking his soda, a plain-clothed officer came up to him and asked what his name was before he invited him into the police station. "At this point, I thought that I might have forgotten something inside while getting my papers, and this very nice man is going to help me get it," explains Elshabini.

The officer knew from his middle name, Ahmed, that he was "Muslim".

In Egypt, personal ID cards state the citizen's religions. The government of Egypt only recognizes the three Abrahamic faiths: Islam, Christianity and Judaism. Therefore, atheists like Tarek, have to state one of these religions in their ID cards.

The officer then told Elshabini he was arrested on the charge of "public breaking of the fast" and locked him in detention. For three hours no one would talk to him or tell him what was happening until the officer who arrested him came back "I kept telling him I was sorry, and that I forgot that it was Ramadan and that I was fasting; anything just to get myself out of this," says Elshabini.

Heba Morayef, a Human Right Watch researcher, explains that there is no such crime as "public breaking of the fast" and it violates both Egyptian and international law. "The arrest of people for smoking in public during Ramadan is illegal under both Egyptian and international law. These arrests are arbitrary in the absence of any legal provisions under Egyptian law," says Morayef.

After three hours of begging, Elshabini was finally released. "I'll believe you this time, and I'll let you out with no police report. How's that for a favor?" Elshabini says the officer told him.

Morayef also believes that these arrests seem to be occurring as a result of initiatives of individual police stations rather than a top-down policy by the ministry of interior. She believes though that this does not absolve the government of the responsibility for these illegal arrests. "The government must clearly issues instructions that its security officers do not have the right to arrest people who appear not to be fasting," she adds.

"Ramadan is the time of year that I would very much like to disappear from the face of the earth. Everybody is badly infected with this mass religious hysteria, and people start to interfere in other people's business," says Elshabini.

The story of Elshabini shows how Egypt's relatively secular police is becoming increasingly intolerant when it comes to freedom of religion. It also demonstrates the government's failure to acknowledge that there are people who might not believe in either Islam, Christianity or Judaism. Egyptian law still did not address this issue either. Until last year, members of the baha'i faiths had to write Muslim on their ID cards because the law does not recognize the baha'i faith as a religion. Last year, the court allowed them to choose to leave the religion field blank.

These arrests also show that freedom of religion and belief is in danger in Egypt which has always been known for its relative religious tolerance, especially in contrast with more theocratic regimes in the region such as Saudi Arabia and most of the Gulf countries, Sudan and Iran, but for a second year in a row, this seems to be changing, at least on an unofficial level.

"After three of the most humiliating hours in my life, I couldn't believe what was happening. At some point I thought that this was a TV show or something; that this was a trick, but unfortunately, every part of what happened was real," says Elshabini.

However, many Egyptians are against these arrests. A facebook group called 'Egyptians from all beliefs are against the arresting of non-fasters in Ramadan' attracted some 800 members in just a few days. "Respect expected by people who fast should be based on personal choice," says Hany Freedom, the creator of the online group who chose to go by his Facebook name. "Otherwise, how would the faster know if others are considerate out of conviction or only because they are forced to."


Source...New Statesman


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## DeadGuy

Well the new hysteria this year where I live is insulting non Muslim females (Different age categories! Even older females were not left alone!!!) Telling them that they should be more "mohtashema" (Decently dressed)!!!!!! 

One taxi driver actually tried to run 3 girls over for that reason! The rest of those like minded "people" get enough kicks just spitting or verbally abusing those girls!! Some times try and throw stones on them!!!

Life's full of great stuff eh?


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## Beatle

Can we have some positive posts on Egypt?! Anyone would think you didn't like living there.....


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## MaidenScotland

Beatle said:


> Can we have some positive posts on Egypt?! Anyone would think you didn't like living there.....



Why don't you post a positive post?


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## Beatle

MaidenScotland said:


> Why don't you post a positive post?


I just thought since you were busy trawling the internet for stories about Egypt, we could have some cheerful stories as well. After all it is the Muslim month of goodwill....


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## MaidenScotland

Beatle said:


> I just thought since you were busy trawling the internet for stories about Egypt, we could have some cheerful stories as well. After all it is the Muslim month of goodwill....




I couldnt find one


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## Helen Ellis

MaidenScotland said:


> If you don't fast during Ramadan in Egypt, lie about it; hide it. Otherwise, you might land in jail.
> 
> Tarek Elshabini, a 21-year-old engineering student, is Muslim, but only according to his personal ID card. Every year comes Ramadan, he faces a dilemma: he doesn't fast because he's an atheist, but everyone, including police officers, expects him to fast because he was born to a Muslim family.
> 
> In order to avoid any possible clashes between Elshabini and his family due to his non-religious credos, he decided to move away for a while until his family is able to live with this new reality. Most families, in what was called the most religious country in the world by Gallup, would find it bitter to swallow the fact that their son does not believe God exists.
> 
> Elshabini managed to find a job in Hurghada as a bar tender in a night club to make his getaway, and on his second day in the tourist city of the Red Sea, he had to go to the police station to issue a criminal record required by his new employer. After a few hours of struggling with governmental bureaucracy, Elshabini got his clean criminal record and was out of the police station at noon.
> 
> To kill his thirst, Elshabini stopped at the kiosk across from the police station for a soda. He stood there, bought a can of soda and lit a cigarette. Elshabini had no idea that last Ramadan at least 150 people were arrested in Aswan and Hurghada, where he just arrived, for eating, drinking or/and smoking in broad daylight during Ramadan. This was new and it was the first time this happens in Egypt.
> 
> It wasn't the last time though. This year, two micro-bus drivers were also arrested in Cairo for the same reason. A Ramadan crackdown was also carried out by police officers in Hurghada to arrest those who eat, smoke or drink publicly before sunset.
> 
> While Elshabini was smoking his cigarette and drinking his soda, a plain-clothed officer came up to him and asked what his name was before he invited him into the police station. "At this point, I thought that I might have forgotten something inside while getting my papers, and this very nice man is going to help me get it," explains Elshabini.
> 
> The officer knew from his middle name, Ahmed, that he was "Muslim".
> 
> In Egypt, personal ID cards state the citizen's religions. The government of Egypt only recognizes the three Abrahamic faiths: Islam, Christianity and Judaism. Therefore, atheists like Tarek, have to state one of these religions in their ID cards.
> 
> The officer then told Elshabini he was arrested on the charge of "public breaking of the fast" and locked him in detention. For three hours no one would talk to him or tell him what was happening until the officer who arrested him came back "I kept telling him I was sorry, and that I forgot that it was Ramadan and that I was fasting; anything just to get myself out of this," says Elshabini.
> 
> Heba Morayef, a Human Right Watch researcher, explains that there is no such crime as "public breaking of the fast" and it violates both Egyptian and international law. "The arrest of people for smoking in public during Ramadan is illegal under both Egyptian and international law. These arrests are arbitrary in the absence of any legal provisions under Egyptian law," says Morayef.
> 
> After three hours of begging, Elshabini was finally released. "I'll believe you this time, and I'll let you out with no police report. How's that for a favor?" Elshabini says the officer told him.
> 
> Morayef also believes that these arrests seem to be occurring as a result of initiatives of individual police stations rather than a top-down policy by the ministry of interior. She believes though that this does not absolve the government of the responsibility for these illegal arrests. "The government must clearly issues instructions that its security officers do not have the right to arrest people who appear not to be fasting," she adds.
> 
> "Ramadan is the time of year that I would very much like to disappear from the face of the earth. Everybody is badly infected with this mass religious hysteria, and people start to interfere in other people's business," says Elshabini.
> 
> The story of Elshabini shows how Egypt's relatively secular police is becoming increasingly intolerant when it comes to freedom of religion. It also demonstrates the government's failure to acknowledge that there are people who might not believe in either Islam, Christianity or Judaism. Egyptian law still did not address this issue either. Until last year, members of the baha'i faiths had to write Muslim on their ID cards because the law does not recognize the baha'i faith as a religion. Last year, the court allowed them to choose to leave the religion field blank.
> 
> These arrests also show that freedom of religion and belief is in danger in Egypt which has always been known for its relative religious tolerance, especially in contrast with more theocratic regimes in the region such as Saudi Arabia and most of the Gulf countries, Sudan and Iran, but for a second year in a row, this seems to be changing, at least on an unofficial level.
> 
> "After three of the most humiliating hours in my life, I couldn't believe what was happening. At some point I thought that this was a TV show or something; that this was a trick, but unfortunately, every part of what happened was real," says Elshabini.
> 
> However, many Egyptians are against these arrests. A facebook group called 'Egyptians from all beliefs are against the arresting of non-fasters in Ramadan' attracted some 800 members in just a few days. "Respect expected by people who fast should be based on personal choice," says Hany Freedom, the creator of the online group who chose to go by his Facebook name. "Otherwise, how would the faster know if others are considerate out of conviction or only because they are forced to."
> 
> 
> Source...New Statesman


Excellent article demonstrating the changing religious climate in Egypt. Soon it could be ALL people of fasting age who are forbidden to eat/drink/smoke in public during Ramadan, whether muslim or not, as it is in some other Arab/Muslim countries.


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## hurghadapat

MaidenScotland said:


> If you don't fast during Ramadan in Egypt, lie about it; hide it. Otherwise, you might land in jail.
> 
> Tarek Elshabini, a 21-year-old engineering student, is Muslim, but only according to his personal ID card. Every year comes Ramadan, he faces a dilemma: he doesn't fast because he's an atheist, but everyone, including police officers, expects him to fast because he was born to a Muslim family.
> 
> In order to avoid any possible clashes between Elshabini and his family due to his non-religious credos, he decided to move away for a while until his family is able to live with this new reality. Most families, in what was called the most religious country in the world by Gallup, would find it bitter to swallow the fact that their son does not believe God exists.
> 
> Elshabini managed to find a job in Hurghada as a bar tender in a night club to make his getaway, and on his second day in the tourist city of the Red Sea, he had to go to the police station to issue a criminal record required by his new employer. After a few hours of struggling with governmental bureaucracy, Elshabini got his clean criminal record and was out of the police station at noon.
> 
> To kill his thirst, Elshabini stopped at the kiosk across from the police station for a soda. He stood there, bought a can of soda and lit a cigarette. Elshabini had no idea that last Ramadan at least 150 people were arrested in Aswan and Hurghada, where he just arrived, for eating, drinking or/and smoking in broad daylight during Ramadan. This was new and it was the first time this happens in Egypt.
> 
> It wasn't the last time though. This year, two micro-bus drivers were also arrested in Cairo for the same reason. A Ramadan crackdown was also carried out by police officers in Hurghada to arrest those who eat, smoke or drink publicly before sunset.
> 
> While Elshabini was smoking his cigarette and drinking his soda, a plain-clothed officer came up to him and asked what his name was before he invited him into the police station. "At this point, I thought that I might have forgotten something inside while getting my papers, and this very nice man is going to help me get it," explains Elshabini.
> 
> The officer knew from his middle name, Ahmed, that he was "Muslim".
> 
> In Egypt, personal ID cards state the citizen's religions. The government of Egypt only recognizes the three Abrahamic faiths: Islam, Christianity and Judaism. Therefore, atheists like Tarek, have to state one of these religions in their ID cards.
> 
> The officer then told Elshabini he was arrested on the charge of "public breaking of the fast" and locked him in detention. For three hours no one would talk to him or tell him what was happening until the officer who arrested him came back "I kept telling him I was sorry, and that I forgot that it was Ramadan and that I was fasting; anything just to get myself out of this," says Elshabini.
> 
> Heba Morayef, a Human Right Watch researcher, explains that there is no such crime as "public breaking of the fast" and it violates both Egyptian and international law. "The arrest of people for smoking in public during Ramadan is illegal under both Egyptian and international law. These arrests are arbitrary in the absence of any legal provisions under Egyptian law," says Morayef.
> 
> After three hours of begging, Elshabini was finally released. "I'll believe you this time, and I'll let you out with no police report. How's that for a favor?" Elshabini says the officer told him.
> 
> Morayef also believes that these arrests seem to be occurring as a result of initiatives of individual police stations rather than a top-down policy by the ministry of interior. She believes though that this does not absolve the government of the responsibility for these illegal arrests. "The government must clearly issues instructions that its security officers do not have the right to arrest people who appear not to be fasting," she adds.
> 
> "Ramadan is the time of year that I would very much like to disappear from the face of the earth. Everybody is badly infected with this mass religious hysteria, and people start to interfere in other people's business," says Elshabini.
> 
> The story of Elshabini shows how Egypt's relatively secular police is becoming increasingly intolerant when it comes to freedom of religion. It also demonstrates the government's failure to acknowledge that there are people who might not believe in either Islam, Christianity or Judaism. Egyptian law still did not address this issue either. Until last year, members of the baha'i faiths had to write Muslim on their ID cards because the law does not recognize the baha'i faith as a religion. Last year, the court allowed them to choose to leave the religion field blank.
> 
> These arrests also show that freedom of religion and belief is in danger in Egypt which has always been known for its relative religious tolerance, especially in contrast with more theocratic regimes in the region such as Saudi Arabia and most of the Gulf countries, Sudan and Iran, but for a second year in a row, this seems to be changing, at least on an unofficial level.
> 
> "After three of the most humiliating hours in my life, I couldn't believe what was happening. At some point I thought that this was a TV show or something; that this was a trick, but unfortunately, every part of what happened was real," says Elshabini.
> 
> However, many Egyptians are against these arrests. A facebook group called 'Egyptians from all beliefs are against the arresting of non-fasters in Ramadan' attracted some 800 members in just a few days. "Respect expected by people who fast should be based on personal choice," says Hany Freedom, the creator of the online group who chose to go by his Facebook name. "Otherwise, how would the faster know if others are considerate out of conviction or only because they are forced to."
> 
> 
> Source...New Statesman


:clap2::clap2::clap2:
Thank you for posting this...........they tried to arrest my husband in 2007 for drinking water when he was sat with me in a coffee shop during Ramadan.........he was only drinking the water so he was able to take some medication which he had to take every four hours after recently having some quite serious surgery...thank goodness i still had all the paperwork from the hospital still in my handbag which i was able to show to them but it still took at least half an hour of very heated discussion during which i also had to take some verbal abuse before he was allowed to go.All i can say is thank goodness that i am back in a country which is not totally a police state and a corrupt one at that.:clap2:


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## MaidenScotland

Helen Ellis said:


> Excellent article demonstrating the changing religious climate in Egypt. Soon it could be ALL people of fasting age who are forbidden to eat/drink/smoke in public during Ramadan, whether muslim or not, as it is in some other Arab/Muslim countries.




All Egyptians regardless of religion are forbidden to drink alcohol during Ramadan.


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## Helen Ellis

MaidenScotland said:


> All Egyptians regardless of religion are forbidden to drink alcohol during Ramadan.



Hardly fair on the Christians, how long has that been law?


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## MaidenScotland

Helen Ellis said:


> Hardly fair on the Christians, how long has that been law?




As far as I am aware it has always been the law.
When I first came here Drinkies etc were allowed to be open during Ramadan but of course they must close now and of course no alcohol sold or served to Egyptians on the prophets birthday.


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## elrasho

hurghadapat said:


> :clap2::clap2::clap2:
> Thank you for posting this...........they tried to arrest my husband in 2007 for drinking water when he was sat with me in a coffee shop during Ramadan.........he was only drinking the water so he was able to take some medication which he had to take every four hours after recently having some quite serious surgery...thank goodness i still had all the paperwork from the hospital still in my handbag which i was able to show to them but it still took at least half an hour of very heated discussion during which i also had to take some verbal abuse before he was allowed to go.All i can say is thank goodness that i am back in a country which is not totally a police state and a corrupt one at that.:clap2:


I wouldn't called Egypt a police state at all... seesh this forum would make anyone thinking of going to Egypt change their minds! Come on people be positive! Although in my opinion the Police should not be hassling people if they see them drinking/eating in Ramadan, you shouldn't force anyone to fast same goes for praying. If someone is a Muslim but does not fast, let them be maybe give some advice why they should fast but don't force them. It's written in the Quran we can only warn our brothers/sisters not force them to do things.


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## MaidenScotland

elrasho said:


> I wouldn't called Egypt a police state at all... seesh this forum would make anyone thinking of going to Egypt change their minds! Come on people be positive! Although in my opinion the Police should not be hassling people if they see them drinking/eating in Ramadan, you shouldn't force anyone to fast same goes for praying. If someone is a Muslim but does not fast, let them be maybe give some advice why they should fast but don't force them. It's written in the Quran we can only warn our brothers/sisters not force them to do things.




Not a police state???
Why would you think not?


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## elrasho

MaidenScotland said:


> Not a police state???
> Why would you think not?


Im just going off what I have read and listening to people who have lived in Egypt before, I know there's a policeman on almost every corner but didn't realise they were so intrusive, I assumed they were as a deterrent.


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## NZCowboy

People should remember that while Egypt may not be a police state, Egypt is still under Emergency Law. Emergency Law was renewed for a further two years back in May 2010
BBC News - Egypt renews tough emergency laws
Emergency law allows the Egyptian government to detain prisoners indefinitely and without charge. There is over 10 000 prisioners currently held under Emergency Law.
While the article that MS refers too the gentleman wasn't arrested for breaking the fast, there is nothing stopping the authorities from holding him indefinitely under Emergency Law.


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## Lanason

Well I love living in Egypt !!!


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## Helen Ellis

elrasho said:


> Im just going off what I have read and listening to people who have lived in Egypt before, I know there's a policeman on almost every corner but didn't realise they were so intrusive, I assumed they were as a deterrent.


I don't think they used to be so intrusive, but maybe that's because I spent most time in Alexandria. I certainly think Egypt was a more liberal tolerant country when I first came to live here(1983). But maybe that was just my blinkered view as an expat wife in Alex.


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## Sam

MaidenScotland said:


> All Egyptians regardless of religion are forbidden to drink alcohol during Ramadan.



Contrary to popular belief, it is not against the law for Egyptians to drink alcohol, it is just another one of those things that has become practised and enforced. Below I copy a post from another forum explaining this very issue:



Kindly be informed that the term 'law' refers to a national set of rules, meant to be directed to include all the areas of one country, or to target a certain group of people held under a certain umbrella i.e. doctors, lawyers...etc.

When it comes to the topic subject-matter of your post, kindly be assured that there is no LAW in Egypt against Egyptians drinking in Ramadan. The highest law in Egypt; the constitution, is supposed to govern all the lower laws passed by the parliament, and constitution has set strict rules against discrimination of any kind, whether it is for religion, skin color, nationality...etc. The constitution had been very clear about the equality of people, and about the legislator's law being incompetent of breaching the constitution, otherwise the said laws are deemed null and void.

Moreover, the criminal law in its penal code has mentioned nothing like drinking alcohol in Ramadan, let alone mentioning Egyptians, or any other nationality in particular. The penal code has included a vast set of crimes and punishments, and you can buy a cheap copy from any legal library in Cairo or Alexandria to verify this information.

Now the situation actually seems about someone who happens to be very religious, yet has a high authority, and who apparently does not give enough care to issues 'trivial' issues like constitution, equality, non-discrimination...etc. and he decided to disseminate his 'instructions' around, because HE CAN. However, none of these instructions are LAW. Law has 'elements' to be considered a legal rule, which can be briefed as follows:

1- A legal rule is a GENERAL RULE; it encompasses people generally, and even when it targets a certain category, it does not direct them in an individual way i.e. disabled people, people of a certain profession...etc.

2- A legal rule is an 'absolute' rule.

3- It is a social conduct rule.

4- It is always accompanied by a compulsory sanction by the state, whether the aforementioned sanction was a criminal penalty as in case with Criminal Law, or it would be a fine as in Civil Law, or a compensation...etc.

Based on the above-mentioned definition and explanation, a legal rule cannot be thought to apply to a nationality but not another, and most definitely cannot be applied in a city but not another. I hope we have this point clarified for now. Whoever claims it is LAW is definitely not on the right side, but if it is applied by force due to the fact that a very high ranked officer simply wants so, this can be the case, and again you can always be sure that the said 'instruction' will be ceased to use as soon as the said person is relocated to a new position in another location.


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## Sam

Lanason said:


> Well I love living in Egypt !!!


I also love living in this country (on good days anyway  )
But, it can't be denied the downward spiral the country seems to be on.


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## NZCowboy

Sam said:


> ..........Based on the above-mentioned definition and explanation, a legal rule cannot be thought to apply to a nationality but not another, and most definitely cannot be applied in a city but not another. I hope we have this point clarified for now. Whoever claims it is LAW is definitely not on the right side, but if it is applied by force due to the fact that a very high ranked officer simply wants so, this can be the case, and again you can always be sure that the said 'instruction' will be ceased to use as soon as the said person is relocated to a new position in another location.


I was under the impression that the *Laws* relating to the operation of Casinos prevented Egyptians entering Casino's ...is this not correct?

As for premises that sell alcohol closing for Ramadan, I knew they didn't have to close but choose to close due to "respect" ....


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## MaidenScotland

NZCowboy said:


> I was under the impression that the *Laws* relating to the operation of Casinos prevented Egyptians entering Casino's ...is this not correct?
> 
> As for premises that sell alcohol closing for Ramadan, I knew they didn't have to close but choose to close due to "respect" ....




Laws rules what the heck lets face it if they decide to arrest you for it there is little you can do.

Casinos must and do operate on hard cash policy.. you cannot spend Egyptian pounds. You must join the casino with a foreign passport.


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## MaidenScotland

I am wondering why my Egyptian staff tell me it is against the law for them to drink alcohol during Ramadan and the Prophets birthday. Someone is telling them it's the law and for what reason?


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## DeadGuy

elrasho said:


> I wouldn't called Egypt a police state at all...


That really made me smile lol


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## Sam

MaidenScotland said:


> I am wondering why my Egyptian staff tell me it is against the law for them to drink alcohol during Ramadan and the Prophets birthday. Someone is telling them it's the law and for what reason?


It's been that way for so long and told to them it's the law so it gets believed. In years to come if there is no change then I'm sure it'll soon "become the law" that you cannot publicly eat/drink/smoke in Ramadan either, or perhaps can't drink alcohol at any time of the year.

I'll find out about the casino thing, but probably that falls under the same category.

It's like an unmarried Egyptian/foreign couple would never be able to check in together in any hotel in Egypt - but guess what, still not against any LAW. Problem is, police will make arrests for all these things, then will fabricate a crime if they feel that way inclined. That's the fun of Egypt!!!


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## DeadGuy

Sam said:


> I also love living in this country (on good days anyway  )
> But, it can't be denied the downward spiral the country seems to be on.


:thumb::thumb::clap2::clap2:


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## DeadGuy

MaidenScotland said:


> I am wondering why my Egyptian staff tell me it is against the law for them to drink alcohol during Ramadan and the Prophets birthday. Someone is telling them it's the law and for what reason?


The main problem for people in here is that the majority of the local population in here aren’t even educated, some of them can’t even spell their own names (Even if they been to schools and did graduate!) So you can imagine how much someone of that kind knows about his/her “rights” and how “confident” they’d be if they were dragged by anyone (Not necessarily a police man!).

And considering the fact that INTIMIDATION is the key word for many things in this country, and the fact that people are afraid of what they don’t understand is helping much with that concept, if you keep things unclear, people will always be confused about what they should do/how should they react in any situation!


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## MaidenScotland

Sam said:


> It's been that way for so long and told to them it's the law so it gets believed. In years to come if there is no change then I'm sure it'll soon "become the law" that you cannot publicly eat/drink/smoke in Ramadan either, or perhaps can't drink alcohol at any time of the year.
> 
> I'll find out about the casino thing, but probably that falls under the same category.
> 
> It's like an unmarried Egyptian/foreign couple would never be able to check in together in any hotel in Egypt - but guess what, still not against any LAW. Problem is, police will make arrests for all these things, then will fabricate a crime if they feel that way inclined. That's the fun of Egypt!!!




Well getting arrested for the hotel thing is sooooo true and that is why my friend ended up married to her Egyptian boyfriend as he was arrested marched out of a hotel room with her. Same problem whenever they travelled together. I suspect the travelling together bit is to stop foreigners getting hassled or seeming to be hassled. Just walk about downtown and before you know it a young man is following you for no other reason than to try and get you into a perfume shop


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## MaidenScotland

So basically even if it is not the law they will detain you if they feel like it.


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## DeadGuy

Sam said:


> .................
> 
> will fabricate a crime if they feel that way inclined. That's the fun of Egypt!!!


Shhhhhh, NO ONE gets framed with ANYTHING in here, got it Sam? :lol:


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## DeadGuy

MaidenScotland said:


> So basically even if it is not the law they will detain you if they feel like it.


Well, not all the time, there are other factors (i.e. how "powerful" the police personnel is, how much the "criminal" knows about his/her "rights", how loud/quiet the "criminal is in the situation, etc.) but most probably yes, it is the "law" that anyone can be detained for NO crime after all......


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## MaidenScotland

Absolute power corrupts absolutely


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## DeadGuy

MaidenScotland said:


> Absolute power corrupts absolutely


Well, here's the thing........There's ALWAYS a "bigger fish" lol, but...........

Enjoy your staying anyway, welcome in Egypt


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## NZCowboy

MaidenScotland said:


> So basically even if it is not the law they will detain you if they feel like it.


Exactly thats my understanding of how Emergency Law works, it gives the government the right to detain anybody indefinitely with out charging them.
Its been in place for over 30 years.
Over 10000 people are currently held under this law.


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## DeadGuy

NZCowboy said:


> Exactly thats my understanding of how Emergency Law works, it gives the government the right to detain anybody indefinitely with out charging them.
> Its been in place for over 30 years.
> Over 10000 people are currently held under this law.


Wanted to comment on that.......but...... I already had a trip and I paid for it, and I don't want any paid trips :lol:

Besides, if that law was not in use anymore, few, but very "nice" people would really loose many things and get so pi$$ed off, why do you wanna pi$$ those very nice people off? :lol:


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## hurghadapat

Sam said:


> I also love living in this country (on good days anyway  )
> But, it can't be denied the downward spiral the country seems to be on.


and think it will become even worse once Mubarak goes as God knows who will take his place even though many names are being bandied about..........but there again even the elections are corrupt !!!


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