# Proof of Income for Sister



## AJ_Stewart

First off we want to thank everyone for their information and are really glad we found this site. We will be reaching out to some of you for additional information so we do not have to reinvent the wheel. 

My sister and I plan on moving to Southern France (looking at Nîmes from what I read) in a year or so. I have read about the changing weather and my only concern is flooding. I'll move up higher in elevation away from warmth, but not to the cold, if I have to to avoid flooding.

I receive income from social security and my federal retirement. How do I provide proof this income will cover my sister as well for long term visa? We will be retirees.

I am going to open a bank account with Le groupe Crédit Agricole as I can do this online to get some finances established. I can get a bank card so this will help when we hit the ground.

Looking for a 3 bedroom house around 180,000€ that will be a mortgage. I am going online now and have read the forum about the house buying process that seems just like the US process here. How long does the process take usually? I know every instance is different. Found this and wish we could buy it now.
Viager maison 5 pièces 120 m² à Combaillaux

For transportation to start off with motor scooters seem to be the best option. Any advice on where to purchase these? Insurance required? I will be looking at French drivers license online.

We plan on shipping some of our electric items that are mainly rechargeable battery and buying a transformer (I have used these many times in my overseas stays) here in the US. Looking for shipping companies and any advice on this process.

If we can swing it a visit to Southern France is in order. At least a trip if we find a house for purchase. Of course setting up a face to face meeting(s) with forum members.

-Aaron & Stefanie


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## Lancashire_Lass

Hi. I am sure more knowledgeable people will chime in, and apologies if this was already clear, but I would check on the meaning of the word ‘viager’ if you would like to be able to move in immediately after purchase. When doing my research this can mean that you buy the house but that has the remaining spouse still living there, although there are various versions. It is a bit of a crap shoot then as to how long the waiting period might be. Forgive me if I am wrong, I am certainly not an expert on French inheritance or even French house buying but working at it, so will be interested in anything you find out about this, or the process in general. You might find this link interesting: Buying and selling a home in France: What is the viager system?


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## EuroTrash

Indeed, as Lancashire_Lass says - and in this case, as per the ad, as well as the 183k you pay upfront, you would pay a monthly allowance of 1426€ to the couple (currently aged 87 and 80) for as long as they continue to live in the house. If they move out you can move in but you still have to pay them their monthly allowance for the rest of their lives, but at a reduced rate.
Viager is a funny thing. I seriously wish somebody would buy my house en viager!


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## Bevdeforges

AJ_Stewart said:


> How do I provide proof this income will cover my sister as well for long term visa? We will be retirees.


Your sister will have to qualify separately for her own visa. If she is retired with some sort of pension (US SS, for example) she should be OK. Otherwise, you may have to prove that she is financially dependent on you and that you provide her financial resources (kind of like establishing her as your dependent for US tax purposes). Don't forget that you'll each have to have private health insurance for the first year in France - and that can be difficult if either of you has any "pre-existing conditions."


AJ_Stewart said:


> I am going to open a bank account with Le groupe Crédit Agricole as I can do this online to get some finances established. I can get a bank card so this will help when we hit the ground.


OK - but check out the details on this before you go for it. It may be a "non-resident" account, which has limitations. Normally a non-resident bank account can be switched to a resident account once you are on site and have the visa and titre de séjour to prove it. But be careful. Bank accounts here are tricky, especially for foreigners.


AJ_Stewart said:


> Looking for a 3 bedroom house around 180,000€ that will be a mortgage. I am going online now and have read the forum about the house buying process that seems just like the US process here. How long does the process take usually?


Getting a mortgage can be a bit more difficult than you think. Normally you go through your own bank - and there are legal restrictions on how much they can lend you based on your regular income. (Think payments no more than 30 to 33% of your income - and down payments are generally in the 20% range. Plus, 30 year mortgages are not common here - especially for retirees. Think more like 15 to 20 years max.)

Also, you can't be in too big a hurry to buy a house. Generally speaking, once you get an offer accepted, the paperwork will take at least 3 months before you're able to have a "closing meeting" with the notaire - and it can take longer if various issues come up. It might be better to plan on renting for your first year as you get to know the area where you'll be living. It's not nearly as easy in France to sell a house in order to move on somewhere else if you find you don't like the area or the house you wind up with.


AJ_Stewart said:


> For transportation to start off with motor scooters seem to be the best option. Any advice on where to purchase these? Insurance required? I will be looking at French drivers license online.


How is your French? Depending on where you live in the States, any existing license you hold may or may not be exchangeable for a French license. But the laws on motorcycles (which includes scooters) has changed recently and may require special classes and testing, even for fairly low-power scooters and motorcycles. Check out the Service Public website under the heading Permis de conduire, and then Permis moto. It's all in French, but you should be able to get a translation using a web page translator.


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## EuroTrash

Another thing to be aware of is that inheritance tax between siblings is pretty high in France. Something to raise with your notaire right at the start of the purchase process and see if he can suggest ways of mitigating this.


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## AJ_Stewart

Thank you all. Great information. After some more reading I did I will definitely go the rental route. I will read the information on the web sites and send off some questions to them so we can prepare for her visa. She will be my dependant. I currently get $4,000 a month for pension. I use a web browser that has a built in translator so when I read the French government pages I don't scratch my head too much understating it. If I find something I don't quite get I copy and paste it in search and start a reading. I will make sure of the bank account type and the particulars before opening an account.

I read about AARO – Association of Americans Resident Overseas for health insurance and the prices. I'll look around for other providers. 


Bevdeforges said:


> Don't forget that you'll each have to have private health insurance for the first year in France


I thought we had to have our own health insurance forever as we are not citizens. We will be on long stay visas as I understand.

Interesting to know about the 'viager'. Not looking to get that particular house but that is the size/type we would like to get. Two other options that seem 'nice' are stone houses and those with the garage and other rooms are underground and the main living floor is above ground. We both grew up in the snow and are looking for a nice temperate climate to retire, activities to enjoy and of course for me spending time in the water with the fishes.

I know one major hurdle it seems are taxes. I'll have to start reading and learning now.... 

Again I thank you for all the great information. -- Aaron


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## Bevdeforges

AJ_Stewart said:


> I thought we had to have our own health insurance forever as we are not citizens. We will be on long stay visas as I understand.


No - citizenship really has nothing to do with your eligibility for the health care system. Residence is the key thing. Once you have 3 months of residence here in France, you can apply to CPAM to join the health care system. Just be aware - the French national system only reimburses a portion of your health care costs (usually quoted as 70%, but it varies depending on the service). The rest (within limits) you will need a mutuelle for. (A mutuelle is a top-up insurance meant to reimburse what the CPAM doesn't, but again, within limits that you choose based on what policy you select - and pay for.)

And don't get overly jazzed about the taxes. Something like 50% of the population pays no income tax (though you still have to declare you worldwide income each year). Where they "get" you is with VAT at 20% on just about everything you buy - however the tax is rolled into the price of the goods. (So don't be surprised when things here are about 20% higher in price than you may be used to.)

Stone houses have their own characteristics here - that you'll learn about as you live here. Big one I've noticed is that stone construction tends to hold in the cool air well - so cooler in summer unless you get a prolonged heat wave, where the stones in the house are exposed to full sun. And then they hold in the heat better than you might want them to.


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## *Sunshine*

AJ_Stewart said:


> I will read the information on the web sites and send off some questions to them so we can prepare for her visa. She will be my dependant.


Could you please post the link for any official sources that indicate France will issue a dependent permit to a sibling?


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## Bevdeforges

*Sunshine* said:


> Could you please post the link for any official sources that indicate France will issue a dependent permit to a sibling?


France doesn't really have a "dependent visa" per se. But they will issue a visa to a sibling if said sibling is "a member of the household" - meaning that they are legally dependent on the sibling for their means of existence. Usually means some long term physical or mental ailment which renders the person unable to live on their own. Basically it's a legal protection type of measure as described here: Protection juridique (tutelle, curatelle...)


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## *Sunshine*

Bevdeforges said:


> France doesn't really have a "dependent visa" per se. But they will issue a visa to a sibling if said sibling is "a member of the household" - meaning that they are legally dependent on the sibling for their means of existence. Usually means some long term physical or mental ailment which renders the person unable to live on their own. Basically it's a legal protection type of measure as described here: Protection juridique (tutelle, curatelle...)


How high is the bar set to qualify? Have you ever heard of anyone actually receiving a permit for a sibling?

Germany has a similar provision for extraordinary hardship, however, the requirements are so high that in practice it is extremely rarely issued.


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## Bevdeforges

*Sunshine* said:


> How high is the bar set to qualify? Have you ever heard of anyone actually receiving a permit for a sibling?


Basically the applicant would have to be the legal guardian or caretaker for the sibling - and to be considered a part of the household, ideally for some period of time before the visa application. It's more or less the same criteria that would apply to dependent parents.


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