# Back to school!!



## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

so we're counting down the last few days of the loooooooong summer hols:clap2:


in our town they get a few extra days than the rest of the region because our major annual town fiesta doesn't finish until midnight 8th September with a massive firework display

then the primary schools start back at 9am on the 9th

well, the schools do, but a lot of the kids just don't make it

the secondary schools return on the 15th


it's an expensive time - what with books to buy - they grew out of anything that isn't flip flops & swimsuits during the summer, so virtually need a whole new wardrobe - school bags - school supplies etc

see this report

Público.es - La vuelta al cole cuesta 820 euros por alumno



> La vuelta al cole cuesta 820 euros por alumno
> Las familias pagan entre 500 y 1.200 euros en función de que elijan entre centros públicos o privados. El gasto en libros de texto marca las diferencias entre las comunidades autónomas.........



translation

_The return to school costs 820 euros per student
Families pay between 500 & 1,200 euros depending on their choice of public or private schools. The cost of books makes the difference between the autonomous communities ......
_


we get a _bonolibro_ book voucher towards books for dd2 - it helps but goes nowhere near covering even the basic textbooks


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## lynn (Sep 25, 2008)

xabiachica said:


> so we're counting down the last few days of the loooooooong summer hols:clap2:
> 
> 
> in our town they get a few extra days than the rest of the region because our major annual town fiesta doesn't finish until midnight 8th September with a massive firework display
> ...


Yes, it is a busy and expensive time getting the kids kitted out for school isn't it? As mine are at an International school, they need uniform (expensive as it is from El Cortes Ingles, but I can pass down bits between them..) The books are a sore point of mine as the school refuses to let me have the book list so that I can order them from Amazon. This would undoubtedly save me a great deal of money but the school policy is that we can't have the list until the first day back unless we are purchasing through the school. I have had to take a deep deep breath on that one!:boxing: I'm sticking to my guns though. They will just have to be without for a week or so until they are delivered.
First day back for mine is Monday, and I must admit they are keen to get back. I am delighted at their enthusiasm and so pleased that they have settled so well this year. It just doesn't seem credible that we've been here for a year now!!


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

lynn said:


> Yes, it is a busy and expensive time getting the kids kitted out for school isn't it? As mine are at an International school, they need uniform (expensive as it is from El Cortes Ingles, but I can pass down bits between them..) The books are a sore point of mine as the school refuses to let me have the book list so that I can order them from Amazon. This would undoubtedly save me a great deal of money but the school policy is that we can't have the list until the first day back unless we are purchasing through the school. I have had to take a deep deep breath on that one!:boxing: I'm sticking to my guns though. They will just have to be without for a week or so until they are delivered.
> First day back for mine is Monday, and I must admit they are keen to get back. I am delighted at their enthusiasm and so pleased that they have settled so well this year. It just doesn't seem credible that we've been here for a year now!!


yes, I suppose for English books you could do amazon!

that's a bit mean of the school not to tell you isn't it?


ooh & school uniform - sometimes I long for uniform when the little princess can't decide what she wants to wear!


at the moment she's freaking out cos she wants to wear her new Justin Bieber t-shirt on the first day back & can't find it!!!

a lot of the state schools don't give out book lists either - we just tell the bookshop which school & class & they order them in for us to collect, although 1 book last year didn't arrive til after Christmas!!


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## 90199 (Mar 21, 2010)

lynn said:


> First day back for mine is Monday, and I must admit they are keen to get back. I am delighted at their enthusiasm and so pleased that they have settled so well this year. It just doesn't seem credible that we've been here for a year now!!


That is great to hear! We see so many negative posts and hear so many doom and gloom stories, that a success is good, you must be proud of your children!

Hepa


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## Guest (Sep 4, 2010)

I'm amazed how much it costs each year per student here. I complained about the cruddy old used and shared textbooks we had at school, but we sure didn't pay this much! 

I'm excited that I might be going back this year too. Applied for a masters through UNED, but I'm still waiting for their decision!


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## fourgotospain (May 4, 2009)

I was just thinking this morning how strange it is that they start the day after the fireworks when no-one's got to bed before 3am!!

We are off to Carrefour this afternoon for materials and trainers....cos apparently you can't do sport in flip-flops


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

halydia said:


> I'm amazed how much it costs each year per student here. I complained about the cruddy old used and shared textbooks we had at school, but we sure didn't pay this much!
> 
> I'm excited that I might be going back this year too. Applied for a masters through UNED, but I'm still waiting for their decision!



in the UK it costs nothing!!!

everything was provided by the school (at least it was 7 years ago for primary)

we have to buy new every year - & if you try to be clever & make the older one keep them in good condition to be handed down you can almost guarantee that they'll change books by the time the younger one needs them


good luck with the masters


did you find out if you can legally work on a student visa?


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## lynn (Sep 25, 2008)

Hepa said:


> That is great to hear! We see so many negative posts and hear so many doom and gloom stories, that a success is good, you must be proud of your children!
> 
> Hepa


Thank you Hepa... Yes, I am very proud of the children as moving them to Spain at ages 10, 12 and 16 (as they were) wasn't going to be easy. After all, it wasn't something they wanted to do: it was something we persuaded them into! However, as a family we have really all plunged ourselves into making things work, and fingers crossed it seems to have worked. I would have to give a big thumbs up to the school as well because although I have small gripes and moans about the way things are done there (ie the book lists...) I would have to say that they have obviously done a good job. All three got good reports last year, and the eldest passed his AS levels with excellent grades.


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## Guest (Sep 4, 2010)

xabiachica said:


> in the UK it costs nothing!!!
> 
> everything was provided by the school (at least it was 7 years ago for primary)
> 
> ...


Everything? Uniform? Materials? That would help a lot. I was surprised here that kids have to have their own scissors, glue, markers, colored pencils, and other assorted art supplies as well as buy their own books. My dear sweet OH brags about how the school system (up to uni) here is free, or nearly free, but the amount spent each year per kid on supplies seems outrageous! Whatever happened to photocopies!? 

Re the books, you should see how aggressively they market books to teachers here. I like it though - have a nice tea set from one of the sales reps - and I don't even make any sort of decisions about books!  

As for working on the visa, I asked at extranjería and the lady wouldn't answer my question. Said I have to go to the department here that deals with work (INEM?). It looks like that in order to work, you must present a proposal to INEM or extranjería (details are shady, I'm trying to iron them out), it can't interfere with your studies, it has to be part time, and complete another list of requirements. I'm still looking into this, so we'll see. It'd be really nice to be on contract


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

halydia said:


> Everything? Uniform? Materials? That would help a lot. I was surprised here that kids have to have their own scissors, glue, markers, colored pencils, and other assorted art supplies as well as buy their own books. My dear sweet OH brags about how the school system (up to uni) here is free, or nearly free, but the amount spent each year per kid on supplies seems outrageous! Whatever happened to photocopies!?
> 
> Re the books, you should see how aggressively they market books to teachers here. I like it though - have a nice tea set from one of the sales reps - and I don't even make any sort of decisions about books!
> 
> As for working on the visa, I asked at extranjería and the lady wouldn't answer my question. Said I have to go to the department here that deals with work (INEM?). It looks like that in order to work, you must present a proposal to INEM or extranjería (details are shady, I'm trying to iron them out), it can't interfere with your studies, it has to be part time, and complete another list of requirements. I'm still looking into this, so we'll see. It'd be really nice to be on contract


everything but uniform

most of the kids would want their own pencils & felt pens - but you didn't_ have to_ buy them

to me, that really is free education!!


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## Guest (Sep 4, 2010)

xabiachica said:


> everything but uniform
> 
> most of the kids would want their own pencils & felt pens - but you didn't_ have to_ buy them
> 
> to me, that really is free education!!


They even give you pencils!? Very nice. That must help. 
Although I was always the nerdy kid who had to find JUST the right pens. When I was home, I cleaned out my room and closets and I don't even want to admit how many pens/pencils/highlighters I found from throughout my secondary and university career. Hopefully some mom or dad stops by the town's recycle center to look for back-to-school supplies, because they've got a TON of stuff this year!


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

halydia said:


> They even give you pencils!? Very nice. That must help.
> Although I was always the nerdy kid who had to find JUST the right pens. When I was home, I cleaned out my room and closets and I don't even want to admit how many pens/pencils/highlighters I found from throughout my secondary and university career. Hopefully some mom or dad stops by the town's recycle center to look for back-to-school supplies, because they've got a TON of stuff this year!


it was - & yet you still get people complaining about the cost of uniform & school bags!


that was the biggest shock for us when we came here - having to buy _everything_ - right down to a pack of photocopy paper to give in to the class teacher!!!


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## Guest (Sep 4, 2010)

xabiachica said:


> it was - & yet you still get people complaining about the cost of uniform & school bags!
> 
> 
> that was the biggest shock for us when we came here - having to buy _everything_ - right down to a pack of photocopy paper to give in to the class teacher!!!


You give photocopy paper to the teachers? We don't even do that up here... Holy crow.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

halydia said:


> You give photocopy paper to the teachers? We don't even do that up here... Holy crow.


some classes the teachers ask you for some money - 30-50 euros for class supplies

some ask you to buy a 'shopping list' of stuff & send it in to school

I prefer the 'shopping list' approach myself


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## Tallulah (Feb 16, 2009)

Yes......the end of one helluva looooooong summer holiday. Youngest in Primaria goes back on 10th and twins in ESO go back on 17th. We've at least got all of the books on the list (although there's always more to buy during the year) and of course on the first day back, they get their list of materiales to buy.....so a scrum at the shops for that one. Just thinking how the hell am I going to get them back to a decent bedtime before school starts???!! It has been an amazing summer - too sociable really and getting them back to a routine I think is going to be a bit of a battle.


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## Guest (Sep 4, 2010)

What is considered a decent school night bed time in this country? From what I understand, this guiri is in bed well before the vast majority of her students.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Tallulah said:


> Yes......the end of one helluva looooooong summer holiday. Youngest in Primaria goes back on 10th and twins in ESO go back on 17th. We've at least got all of the books on the list (although there's always more to buy during the year) and of course on the first day back, they get their list of materiales to buy.....so a scrum at the shops for that one. Just thinking how the hell am I going to get them back to a decent bedtime before school starts???!! It has been an amazing summer - too sociable really and getting them back to a routine I think is going to be a bit of a battle.


our books haven't arrived in the shop yet....................


& yes - getting them back into a routine isn't easy - especially with the best & last fireworks of the year at midnight the night before school starts!!


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## Tallulah (Feb 16, 2009)

halydia said:


> What is considered a decent school night bed time in this country? From what I understand, this guiri is in bed well before the vast majority of her students.


The hours were soooooo different back in the UK, Halydia - for school, mealtimes, everything!!! 

Back there, up at 6am (for me) to get out of the door by 8.15 to drive them to school....so they were in bed by 8pm latest (dinner at 6pm!). Here...well I'm lucky to drag them screaming from their beds by 8am to get to school for 9.20am ready for 9.30am start.......

But then.....homework....after school it's not unknown to have them up still at 11pm finishing off work and studying for exams/controles the next day. Try and fit in dinner around 9pm. By 11.30pm most nights we try and get them sorted and in bed..but then it's a completely different scenario here when I hear of their friends who aren't often in bed before midnight...and then when you think that a lot of the children's movies don't start before 10pm (with the interminable anuncios) it's quite an eye opener!

I don't know how they cope with it...just know that as adults we seem to be struggling far more than they do!!! 

xxx


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Tallulah said:


> The hours were soooooo different back in the UK, Halydia - for school, mealtimes, everything!!!
> 
> Back there, up at 6am (for me) to get out of the door by 8.15 to drive them to school....so they were in bed by 8pm latest (dinner at 6pm!). Here...well I'm lucky to drag them screaming from their beds by 8am to get to school for 9.20am ready for 9.30am start.......
> 
> ...


yes, the films on the Disney Channel late at night don't help do they?

I remember a class meeting with the teacher when dd2 was in 1st year primary - the teacher - to the disgust of the Spanish mothers - was telling them that they should follow the English example & have their kids in bed early!!

I manage to get the 11 year old in bed usually by 9.30 & lights out at 10 - we all have our main meal at lunchtime so dinner isn't a big issue - just a snack really 

the 14 year old officially goes to bed at 10.30 - I know she stays up much later quite often just messing around in her room (she has a computer there but not internet)

she has to start school at 8am though - so is usually up by 7!

I know most of their friends - especially the Spanish ones - go to bed much later than my 2- but I also know that they really struggle in the mornings!


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## lynn (Sep 25, 2008)

It's much different for mine at International School. We generally get to bed for 10pm and get up at 7am to get to school for 8.45am. School finishes at 4pm. Its an hour later than we got to bed in the UK, but not that different. As for homework, well, my daughter would work all the hours she could, whereas my boys will do the bare minimum!!!


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## Tallulah (Feb 16, 2009)

I really wish we could have an option on sending them to bed earlier (or even for them to undertake more extracurricular actividades) - it's not that we're slack in wanting to get them to bed...seriously it's the amount of work (I've commented on this many many times in the past on this forum) and how ESO teachers comment on how badly prepared Primaria are for ESO, Instituto comment on how badly prepared ESO are for the Instituto....the levels of homework, the range of subjects.....it can be quite overwhelming and incredibly stressful for them. When I compare it to how it was in the UK (and indeed talking to friends and family back there) there's simply no comparison. However, talking to my OH's side of the family here, no big deal - it's simply how it is and has always been. But then I remember similar situations in the French education system with my exchanges there.....frightened the life out of me!


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Tallulah said:


> I really wish we could have an option on sending them to bed earlier (or even for them to undertake more extracurricular actividades) - it's not that we're slack in wanting to get them to bed...seriously it's the amount of work (I've commented on this many many times in the past on this forum) and how ESO teachers comment on how badly prepared Primaria are for ESO, Instituto comment on how badly prepared ESO are for the Instituto....the levels of homework, the range of subjects.....it can be quite overwhelming and incredibly stressful for them. When I compare it to how it was in the UK (and indeed talking to friends and family back there) there's simply no comparison. However, talking to my OH's side of the family here, no big deal - it's simply how it is and has always been. But then I remember similar situations in the French education system with my exchanges there.....frightened the life out of me!


they do seem to have a huge amount of studying in ESO, don't they?


dd1 finishes at 2pm though - well - 3pm 2 days a week from this year, so after a meal & a bit of a _chillout_ there's loads of time for study I reckon

she might not agree though............

she does swim when the weather's good & ride her bike

she wants to play pilota this year & she's just bought herself a keyboard - we're looking for a keyboard teacher for her

& she also does a bit of babysitting





she's going to have to get VERY organised this year:juggle:


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## Tallulah (Feb 16, 2009)

xabiachica said:


> they do seem to have a huge amount of studying in ESO, don't they?
> 
> 
> dd1 finishes at 2pm though - well - 3pm 2 days a week from this year, so after a meal & a bit of a _chillout_ there's loads of time for study I reckon
> ...


What year is DD1 going to in ESO this year? Twins start Year 2......nerves are kicking in already. Has she started her plans for bachillerato yet?


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

xabiachica said:


> they do seem to have a huge amount of studying in ESO, don't they?
> 
> 
> dd1 finishes at 2pm though - well - 3pm 2 days a week from this year, so after a meal & a bit of a _chillout_ there's loads of time for study I reckon
> ...


These comments about the amount of homework always worried me cos Ruby, in year 2 of ESO, hardly ever had any homework!! Maybe half an hour once every couple of week!!!! 

However, she is going to be going back into an international school next week. and the school e-mail me with the homework and if she doesnt do it!! So I suspect we're in for a bit of a shock 

Jo xxx


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## Daveh (Sep 3, 2010)

I dunno about Spain, but i'm so glad the kids are going back to school. Here in Coventry, on the estate i live on, bloody kids everywhere, trashing my plants as they zoom past on bikes. Screaming, shouting and swearing at each other; fighting and littering. Back to school can't come fast enough for me lol 

Little ******s! 


Davey xx


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## Caz.I (Mar 21, 2009)

I am also happy they are all going back to school, despite unlimited entertainment of toys, films, computer, pool, park and beach, they claim to be "bored"! And that is when they get irritating.

Our school, starts back on Friday 10th at 9am (I think). We have had no official notice or information yet about this term. The only info I have seen (and that was only because I just happened to be passing the school by chance and saw the notice), is that the system for applying for school dinners has now changed due to a change in the law (dont know if it's national or just Andalucia) and despite having applied for school dinners in June (and handing in all manner of documents), we now have to do it again but this time apply direct to the catering company! Whether this means they have changed the law so that they no longer have to provide discounts for families on low incomes, I dont know (though wouldnt surprise me) but it is very annoying, especially since there is a deadline of 8th September and probably most families dont even know about it yet. 

The lack of communication from the school is dire, usually the only way you find things out is by notices posted outside the school as late as the day before something is happening. My other grumble is like everyone, the cost of books etc. Since my son is only 5 he wont get the book voucher till next year, this year's books have gone up by about 20-30 euros, and cost 145 euros (without the religion textbook). Materials usually cost about another 30 euros, so its a bit steep. In the local stationers', a mother was complaining that she had to buy a whole list of materials for her 6 year old which specified a particular brand and colour of notebook, pencil, sharpener etc and cost about 80-90 euros. The bookshop owner was saying that this was down to the specific school, and sometimes the particular teacher.

It was interesting what someone said (I think Halydia) about particular book publishers aggressively marketing their textbooks and I can't help but feel it is all just one big money spin for publishers and stationery companies.

By the way, my son lives the Spanish lifestyle too, and is up late. The other night he had a birthday party which didnt finish till 10pm and where he was served "merienda" at 8pm!


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## gerrit (Jul 15, 2008)

Extra long holidays, lucky gits. Back in my days in Belgium, every school starts strictly 1st September and the only escape was if you either did home education (which is growing in popularity) or if 1st September was in a weekend...

Summer seems to be much longer once one is no longer a student. 6 years since I finished post-secondary education (no university degree though, I stopped a year before I was supposed to graduate) and I almost forgot when school holidays were scheduled ... 

I'm amazed to see that some of your kids are happy to go back. A lot of parents have to literally drag them  We never had uniforms whatsoever, the one positive of my school days.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Altho I think we're all a bit sick of the sight of each other, I'm quite sad that mine are going back to school and that the summer is over. I love those hot, lazy days when it doesnt matter what time you get up, what time you go out or what time you go to bed. I feel we wasted a lot of this summers relaxation and pleasures by our plans to return to the UK.

........ And Gerrit, uniforms are a great idea, my daughter used to take hours deciding what to wear to go to school - it was more like a fashion show!! Now, its a uniform, no arguments with her about what she would be wearing!

Jo xxx


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

jojo said:


> Altho I think we're all a bit sick of the sight of each other, I'm quite sad that mine are going back to school and that the summer is over. I love those hot, lazy days when it doesnt matter what time you get up, what time you go out or what time you go to bed. I feel we wasted a lot of this summers relaxation and pleasures by our plans to return to the UK.
> 
> Jo xxx


mine will be glad to go back now - their 'summer friends' who come to Javea for weekends & the long hols have gone back today

life will be back to normal again


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## gerrit (Jul 15, 2008)

I am against uniforms for the reason that at that age self-development and self-expression, finding your own directions etc, are quite important. I know appearance isn't everything, but it is not totally unimportant neither. Maybe I'm just a bit vain but well...  I wouldn't like the idea of uniforms, although when I lived in Ireland it seemed not a single school was uniformless. I find it an unnecessary restriction and was quite happy that in my school days there was no such rule. That was one of the sole positives of my school days, in general nothing but bad to extremely bad memories. I wouldn't wanna go back in time, not for a million ...


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

gerrit said:


> I am against uniforms for the reason that at that age self-development and self-expression, finding your own directions etc, are quite important. I know appearance isn't everything, but it is not totally unimportant neither. Maybe I'm just a bit vain but well...  I wouldn't like the idea of uniforms, although when I lived in Ireland it seemed not a single school was uniformless. I find it an unnecessary restriction and was quite happy that in my school days there was no such rule. That was one of the sole positives of my school days, in general nothing but bad to extremely bad memories. I wouldn't wanna go back in time, not for a million ...


some mornings I rather miss uniform - it makes it so much easier with girls - none of this 'what can I wear today?'

I dare say it's the same with a lot of boys too.........


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## gerrit (Jul 15, 2008)

xabiachica said:


> some mornings I rather miss uniform - it makes it so much easier with girls - none of this 'what can I wear today?'
> 
> I dare say it's the same with a lot of boys too.........


Of course it is  Nothing wrong with a tiny bit of vanity. I spend about 10 minutes on my hair every morning, another 5 on putting my make-up right, and then every 2 to 3 months hair straightening treatment at the hairdresser  When my parents last visited me, my mom saw my make-up tools in the closet and said she never saw that many eyeliner pencils at once 

I hate those gender stereotypes, nothing wrong with a man developping his own style and investing time in it. It's nice as well to join my female friends on a make-up shopping trip, although I usually have a larger stock in the house than them...


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

gerrit said:


> Of course it is  Nothing wrong with a tiny bit of vanity. I spend about 10 minutes on my hair every morning, another 5 on putting my make-up right, and then every 2 to 3 months hair straightening treatment at the hairdresser  When my parents last visited me, my mom saw my make-up tools in the closet and said she never saw that many eyeliner pencils at once
> 
> I hate those gender stereotypes, nothing wrong with a man developping his own style and investing time in it. It's nice as well to join my female friends on a make-up shopping trip, although I usually have a larger stock in the house than them...


too much information gerrit - too much information


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## Caz.I (Mar 21, 2009)

xabiachica said:


> some mornings I rather miss uniform - it makes it so much easier with girls - none of this 'what can I wear today?'
> 
> I dare say it's the same with a lot of boys too.........


Yes it is, mine is very fussy! He had a uniform in nursery and it was great, no stress or panic about finding what to wear. Though now I usually buy specific clothes for school, like plain polo shirts and joggers and try to make him wear that to try to keep the nicer stuff in good condition. Trainers seem to get destroyed very easily so he is not allowed to wear the fun ones to school.

I know what Gerrit is saying about self expression and uniforms - I felt like that when I had to wear a uniform at school but I think when or if you become a parent, practicality has to come first! Anyway, it can end up being a competitive thing of who is the most fashionable/radical etc whereas if everyone wears the same to school, it can even out the insecurities a bit. I used to customise my school uniform a bit to express myself - although I did get into trouble a bit for it but it was my own way of rebelling a little.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Back to school with less junk food!!
Spain to limit food and sweet vending machines in schools
My daughter, along with Tallulah's kids, must be the last one to go back to school in the whole of Spain (Europe?, the world??). She goes back on the 17th, but I won't miss her - it's only for an hour to give out the timetable!!


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Back to school with less junk food!!
> Spain to limit food and sweet vending machines in schools
> My daughter, along with Tallulah's kids, must be the last one to go back to school in the whole of Spain (Europe?, the world??). She goes back on the 17th, but I won't miss her - it's only for an hour to give out the timetable!!


that's what my dd1 is doing - in for an hour on the 15th to get the timetable!!


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## gerrit (Jul 15, 2008)

Caz.I said:


> Yes it is, mine is very fussy! He had a uniform in nursery and it was great, no stress or panic about finding what to wear. Though now I usually buy specific clothes for school, like plain polo shirts and joggers and try to make him wear that to try to keep the nicer stuff in good condition. Trainers seem to get destroyed very easily so he is not allowed to wear the fun ones to school.
> 
> I know what Gerrit is saying about self expression and uniforms - I felt like that when I had to wear a uniform at school but I think when or if you become a parent, practicality has to come first! Anyway, it can end up being a competitive thing of who is the most fashionable/radical etc whereas if everyone wears the same to school, it can even out the insecurities a bit. I used to customise my school uniform a bit to express myself - although I did get into trouble a bit for it but it was my own way of rebelling a little.


The issue is that people are not the same. So we shouldn't all look the same. I think it's up to teachers (and dare I say, parents) to learn kids that it's not a fashion contest but that everyone may wear something he/she feels comfortable in, but not for the sake of making it a contest. I know, some kids will nonetheless do so ...

do all schools here finish at 31st June or do the ones who go back later also finish later at the end of academy year? When I was a teenager, it was basically the same for everyone: september 1st until June 31st (although the last years I always had to skip the post-exam days of the year, exhausted by depression, leading to sending back books, notes etc by post and even not having collected my degree myself)

I never had dresscodes at schools, and I didn't have the feeling there was something competitive going on about fashion. Maybe I just was a bit too reclusive to notice it though? I only developed my own fashion preferences after having finalised secondary school already ; a bit late but then as an adult your personality is usually shaped more or less (although in a way this is a lifelong process) and it makes sense to then not like other people telling you what to do, or in this case: what to wear.



Do those schools who start later also finish later or does everyone get out by 31st June? In my school days it was the same day for the entire teenage population: 1st September until June 31st, those studying at home as sole exceptions (although the last years I usually quit right after the last exam and skipped the last week where it was just bringing back books, collecting the scores of exams etc. I was kept at home, exhausted by depression, and the sending back stuff etc happened via third parties or post. I actually didn't even collect my degree myself when I graduated)


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

gerrit said:


> The issue is that people are not the same. So we shouldn't all look the same. I think it's up to teachers (and dare I say, parents) to learn kids that it's not a fashion contest but that everyone may wear something he/she feels comfortable in, but not for the sake of making it a contest. I know, some kids will nonetheless do so ...
> 
> 
> 
> I never had dresscodes at schools, and I didn't have the feeling there was something competitive going on about fashion. Maybe I just was a bit too reclusive to notice it though? I only developed my own fashion preferences after having finalised secondary school already ; a bit late but then as an adult your personality is usually shaped more or less (although in a way this is a lifelong process) and it makes sense to then not like other people telling you what to do, or in this case: what to wear.


Gerrit, when you have a 13 year old daughter who is still trying on different outfits at 8.30am and is demanding yet more new clothes cos she cant possibly wear the same thing twice, then you can comment!!!! lol!! 

Uniforms are also good IMO because they give a child a sense of belonging and prevent oneupmanship to some extent!! 

That said, I've just gone and got Rubys uniform from El Corte Ingles - 90€ for a school skirt - NINETY EUROS!!!!!!!! The uniform dictates it has to be that particular skirt! FFS!!!! She also needs 120€ blazer - well she can wait til it gets colder before I take out a mortgage for that!!!

Jo xx


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

jojo said:


> Gerrit, when you have a 13 year old daughter who is still trying on different outfits at 8.30am and is demanding yet more new clothes cos she cant possibly wear the same thing twice, then you can comment!!!! lol!!
> 
> Uniforms are also good IMO because they give a child a sense of belonging and prevent oneupmanship to some extent!!
> 
> ...


now that aspect of uniform I don't miss!!


when i was at Grammar school we had uniform everything - right down to these horrid thick grey knickers in winter & white synthetic ones in summer

2 pairs of brown shoes required to be at school at all times - one for indoors & one for outdoors - from a choice of about 5 styles!! - they looked lovely with the blue uniform!


the school tailor would come in 3 times a year to measure everyone - skirt length - precisely 2 inches above-the-bend-at-the-back-of-the-knee

when I passed the 11+ to get into the school my parents were very proud - but if they hadn't had good credit & been able to get a bank loan the first year I wouldn't have gone

& yes, this was a state school!


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

we went shoe shopping for school yesterday...........



we got some posh sparkly pink baseball boots for dd2 - she'll need trainers too for PE

funny thing is she had her heart set on this particular style all summer & I said we'd have to wait til just before she goes back to school cos of the way she insists on growing all the time!!!

the first shop we went into didn't have her size!!!

one very 11 year old!!

so we went to another shop & they did have her size but she saw another colour there she liked better


so.........mummy bought a pair of the pink ones for herself - they're sooo cooool!!:clap2:

2  daughters saying that I'd better never go out with them wearing them


I'm doing my job right embarrassing them, aren't I??


dd1, as usual came back with nothing - feet bigger than the average Spanish woman doesn't help...........



looks like a trip to an out of town shopping centre is in order!


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## gerrit (Jul 15, 2008)

The uniforms include a skirt? Another reason to oppose it. Why a skirt? What about girls who prefer to wear trousers? Gender stereotyping again. A uniform giving a sense of belonging into a group, sounds odd to me. To me any restrictions on appearance felt more like a cage and trying to restrict one's personality. A lot of those uniforms are oldfashioned and conservative, keeping old stereotypes alive. I'm glad I never had any school where dress codes were part of the deal. Telling exactly how long a specific type of clothes should be sounds like dictatorship-style really. I've known several girls who never wear skirts because they consider it sexist ; I very much understand that sentiment.

Your kids are lucky though to go to an international school. I wanted to do that back in my days for the sake of the challenge and for interaction with other cultures ; unfortunately such schools were very very hard to find back then. It must be nice to be surrounded by people from different backgrounds and different sides of the planet


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

gerrit said:


> The uniforms include a skirt? Another reason to oppose it. Why a skirt? What about girls who prefer to wear trousers? Gender stereotyping again. A uniform giving a sense of belonging into a group, sounds odd to me. To me any restrictions on appearance felt more like a cage and trying to restrict one's personality. A lot of those uniforms are oldfashioned and conservative, keeping old stereotypes alive. I'm glad I never had any school where dress codes were part of the deal.


it's a 'posh' private school

many girls prefer skirts in the heat in any case


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## gerrit (Jul 15, 2008)

xabiachica said:


> it's a 'posh' private school
> 
> many girls prefer skirts in the heat in any case


Understandable, but it shouldn't be enforced. Several women I know staunchly refuse wearing anything but trousers. I very much understand, indirectly oldfashioned stereotypes are kept intact when people are pushed in a certain direction rather than following their own direction. And it's not like it's something making an impact on school results ...

What schools should prioritise upon is prevention and stronger sanctioning of bullying. A very often overlooked and ignored problem which however is extremely common still today. I heard teachers say, back in my teenage days, "you were born an idiot" and "are you backwards or what?" - nobody did anything to prevent bullying, some teachers even participated in it. That, and special classes for children with disabilities and learning difficulties, should be an issue high on the agenda.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

gerrit said:


> Understandable, but it shouldn't be enforced. Several women I know staunchly refuse wearing anything but trousers. I very much understand, indirectly oldfashioned stereotypes are kept intact when people are pushed in a certain direction rather than following their own direction. And it's not like it's something making an impact on school results ...
> 
> What schools should prioritise upon is prevention and stronger sanctioning of bullying. A very often overlooked and ignored problem which however is extremely common still today. I heard teachers say, back in my teenage days, "you were born an idiot" and "are you backwards or what?" - nobody did anything to prevent bullying, some teachers even participated in it. That, and special classes for children with disabilities and learning difficulties, should be an issue high on the agenda.


it's the school rules

if you don't agree with the rules, you don't send your children there


simple.........


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## lynn (Sep 25, 2008)

gerrit said:


> The uniforms include a skirt? Another reason to oppose it. Why a skirt? What about girls who prefer to wear trousers? Gender stereotyping again. A uniform giving a sense of belonging into a group, sounds odd to me. To me any restrictions on appearance felt more like a cage and trying to restrict one's personality. A lot of those uniforms are oldfashioned and conservative, keeping old stereotypes alive. I'm glad I never had any school where dress codes were part of the deal. Telling exactly how long a specific type of clothes should be sounds like dictatorship-style really. I've known several girls who never wear skirts because they consider it sexist ; I very much understand that sentiment.
> 
> Your kids are lucky though to go to an international school. I wanted to do that back in my days for the sake of the challenge and for interaction with other cultures ; unfortunately such schools were very very hard to find back then. It must be nice to be surrounded by people from different backgrounds and different sides of the planet


I wore a uniform right through my secondary education, and don't feel any less of an individual because of it! There are subtle (and not to subtle) ways of showing your individuality with the uniform and this was generally what we all did. For example, the skirt length was altered, the tie tied in a different way; it doesn't sound much, but it spoke volumes among your peer group. I'm sure my kids are just the same. 
As for the matter of skirts, well at my kids' school, they can wear trousers if they choose. My daughter loves the skirt because it is airy and cool, but not on windy days! I really don't see how they can be construed as 'sexist'? They are a practical garment that looks attractive (OOOPS is that a dirty word??)


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## gerrit (Jul 15, 2008)

Very true about sticking to the rules if you decide to enrol your kids in that school. And that's a personal decision nobody should criticise. I'm just disagreeing with the thoughts behind those rules, but obviously you stick to the rules if you decide to join a specific club or institution. I guess it's to each his own weither they agree with those rules and enrol their children or weither they don't.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

lynn said:


> I wore a uniform right through my secondary education, and don't feel any less of an individual because of it! There are subtle (and not to subtle) ways of showing your individuality with the uniform and this was generally what we all did. For example, the skirt length was altered, the tie tied in a different way; it doesn't sound much, but it spoke volumes among your peer group. I'm sure my kids are just the same.
> As for the matter of skirts, well at my kids' school, they can wear trousers if they choose. My daughter loves the skirt because it is airy and cool, but not on windy days! I really don't see how they can be construed as 'sexist'? They are a practical garment that looks attractive (OOOPS is that a dirty word??)


I did too - & through primary come to that


our uniform in grammar school was very strict & we hated it, but yes, we all did find ways of expressing individuality - we just had to be very creative & sneaky

you're right about the skirts - i bet the boys might secretively envy the girls some days


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## gerrit (Jul 15, 2008)

lynn said:


> I wore a uniform right through my secondary education, and don't feel any less of an individual because of it! There are subtle (and not to subtle) ways of showing your individuality with the uniform and this was generally what we all did. For example, the skirt length was altered, the tie tied in a different way; it doesn't sound much, but it spoke volumes among your peer group. I'm sure my kids are just the same.
> As for the matter of skirts, well at my kids' school, they can wear trousers if they choose. My daughter loves the skirt because it is airy and cool, but not on windy days! I really don't see how they can be construed as 'sexist'? They are a practical garment that looks attractive (OOOPS is that a dirty word??)


Back in the old days, a woman wearing trousers instead of a skirt was not done, just like men without a tie or men with earrings were considered odd. I wouldn't like to go back to that mindset, that typing of thinking is totally outdated I'd say. They're gender stereotypes usually found in the more conservative (and dare I say, more religious) layers of society. I don't think schools should keep such stereotypes intact.

Of course I shouldn't be bothered too much since it doesn't affect me, I just feel sorry for those kids who wear those things with dislike (without saying all kids would dislike these clothes)



Back in my teenage years I personally didn't care about clothing. My personality was shaped more in a later phase, late teens - early twenties. I was lucky to not have uniforms at school, if there were however it probably wouldn't have affected me back then. My dislike of these rules and mindsets grew mostly after I already finished secondary school.


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## lynn (Sep 25, 2008)

gerrit said:


> Back in the old days, a woman wearing trousers instead of a skirt was not done, just like men without a tie or men with earrings were considered odd. I wouldn't like to go back to that mindset, that typing of thinking is totally outdated I'd say. They're gender stereotypes usually found in the more conservative (and dare I say, more religious) layers of society. I don't think schools should keep such stereotypes intact.
> 
> Of course I shouldn't be bothered too much since it doesn't affect me, I just feel sorry for those kids who wear those things with dislike (without saying all kids would dislike these clothes)
> 
> ...


I really don't feel terribly sorry for children having to wear something they dislike at all. It's not going to do them any harm whatsoever, and life is full of things we have to learn to endure at times! As xabi and I said, there are lots of sneaky ways to undermine the rules and regulations regarding uniform which give quite a good sense of empowerment to the individual. I've got items in my wardrobe that I wear even though I'm not that keen on them as I won't just chuck stuff out if it is servicable. That's not to say that I don't enjoy dressing up and buying new clothes...


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

lynn said:


> I really don't feel terribly sorry for children having to wear something they dislike at all. It's not going to do them any harm whatsoever, and life is full of things we have to learn to endure at times! As xabi and I said, there are lots of sneaky ways to undermine the rules and regulations regarding uniform which give quite a good sense of empowerment to the individual. I've got items in my wardrobe that I wear even though I'm not that keen on them as I won't just chuck stuff out if it is servicable. That's not to say that I don't enjoy dressing up and buying new clothes...


we had regulation knickers









but not regulation bras


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## gerrit (Jul 15, 2008)

Why not just have more flexible rules instead of encouraging kids to be creative to bypass the rules? 


I may be wrong, but isn't education supposed to be free unless one opts for private schools? I'm surprised to read everyone has own books to buy. I never had that, or only extremely rarely. Usually the school supplied us with books and most of them had to be returned at the end of the school year. We never had a list of books we needed to purchase for ourselves, most of it was taking notes manually or using photocopies of manuals that the school provided. Obviously there were still costs such as a bag for all the notes, writing material, transport to/from school ... but we never received a book list with items to purchase.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

gerrit said:


> Why not just have more flexible rules instead of encouraging kids to be creative to bypass the rules?
> 
> 
> I may be wrong, but isn't education supposed to be free unless one opts for private schools? I'm surprised to read everyone has own books to buy. I never had that, or only extremely rarely. Usually the school supplied us with books and most of them had to be returned at the end of the school year. We never had a list of books we needed to purchase for ourselves, most of it was taking notes manually or using photocopies of manuals that the school provided. Obviously there were still costs such as a bag for all the notes, writing material, transport to/from school ... but we never received a book list with items to purchase.


yes, the education in Spain is free


it's the boks & supplies that aren't!!


in many if not most areas there is a _bonolibro_ given for each child (in primary school in my area) towards the cost of the books


many low-income/familia numerosa/single parent & other families also get a _beca_ - grant - towards supplies


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## gerrit (Jul 15, 2008)

I never had any such list back in my young days, basically the schools photocopied everything and that was either for free or maximum we had to refund the teacher the cost of photocopying everything. Some others didn't even require any material at all but just wrote everything on the board for us to make manual notes in a blocnote. Sounds a bit back-to-basics maybe but that photocopying was quite effective: one book and a photocopying machine was all the cost involved for the school and the parents had no costs to worry about other than the bags, pencils, noteblocs, folders, bus fares, etc

We did get the task to read 4 books in all languages we studied (Dutch, English, French) per year, but those were borrowed for free from the library and then returned once the reading was done. The schools actively cooperated with the libraries, in the beginning of the school year we made a visit to the library with the entire class to promote kids in visiting the library and using their educational material to full extent. Of course there was still the minority who chose to download the book summary from the web rather than going to the library and read it


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## Daveh (Sep 3, 2010)

Kids are finally back at school in the UK and so far, it's been a very peaceful day  lol

Davey xx


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Daveh said:


> Kids are finally back at school in the UK and so far, it's been a very peaceful day  lol
> 
> Davey xx


and that's after only 6 weeks!!


wait til you're living here with the 12 week+ summer holidays!!


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

I got the text from the bookshop yesterday to say all the books were in except one which will be in within the next week

school text books for 2 kids nearly 500 euros!

that's not including the one which isn't in yet, or the at least 2 which dd1 in ESO will be told about when she goes back - she knows she'll need them for the subject but the teacher hadn't given out the info of which ones to get

the books are between 15 & 30 euros each - so that's probably another 60 ish + euros

then during the year dd1 will have 6 reading books - 3 in Castellano & 3 in Valenciano - average 10 euros each - so another 60

the bonolibro this year for dd2 is only 120 euros - I'm sure it was more last year - still every little helps

librettas, carpetas, estuches & agendas - not to mention pens, pencils etc. - I never add up the cost of those - & you are constantly buying them through the year -but say about 50 euros to get them back on day 1

school bags - bought those in a sale in July - 50 euros for 2


then during the first couple of weeks it will be probably 50ish each for 'classroom stock'

then AMPA fees – I think it’s 50 in our ESO & 35 in the primary - so another 85 euros


I wish I hadn’t started this



That’s nearly 800 euros on ‘back to school’ for an 11 & a 14 year old 


Not including clothes – they’d need them anyway so I haven’t counted them - although the figures in the article I originally posted did include those costs


Today I’m grateful there’s no uniform!



so Halydia - you can tell your OH that you have it from the horses mouth - free education in Spain is expensive!


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## Guest (Sep 8, 2010)

xabiachica said:


> so Halydia - you can tell your OH that you have it from the horses mouth - free education in Spain is expensive!


hahahaha, he won't believe me! He'll probably have a heart attack when we have our own and it comes time for them to head to school.

I was giving art classes two years back, and felt TERRIBLY when I learned that the kids had to purchase the supplies (water colors, etc) that their work required. Once I learned that, I kept class work simple. 

I can't say it's bad, but it's definitely different and surprising to me.

PS - goodness gracious you're up early!


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

halydia said:


> hahahaha, he won't believe me! He'll probably have a heart attack when we have our own and it comes time for them to head to school.
> 
> I was giving art classes two years back, and felt TERRIBLY when I learned that the kids had to purchase the supplies (water colors, etc) that their work required. Once I learned that, I kept class work simple.
> 
> ...


I haven't included costs for plastica either

I forgot about that


brushes, acrylics, special paper etc.........

but we won't know what those are until dd1 comes home with the shopping list


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## Guest (Sep 8, 2010)

xabiachica said:


> I haven't included costs for plastica either
> 
> I forgot about that
> 
> ...



I'M SORRY!


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

halydia said:


> I'M SORRY!


maybe we'll get a kind teacher like you


yeah right


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## gerrit (Jul 15, 2008)

Somehow it all doesn't sound right really. The state should cover more of those expenses. Free education sounds like a void propaganda slogan when in the end it costs more than a month's salary. Why don't they just hand out photocopies or borrow out books that are property of the school instead of letting families pay for those books they cannot use again after the school year?


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

xabiachica said:


> we had regulation knickers


We had regulation knickers...navy blue in winter, blue and white check in summer to match our summer uniform of blue and white gingham check dresses and panama hats (the old-fashioned kind with elastic under the chin!)
In winter we wore navy gymslips and white blouses with horrible square necks and when in the Sixth you wore a blouse with collar and tie. Plus a navy velour hat and gabardine raincoat. Horrible. Stockings had to be seamed - kinky We must have all looked like a bunch of teenage lesbians or those girls in that German film 'Madchen in Uniform'
Skirt length was one inch off the ground when kneeling....pupils were often accosted by some prowling harridan of a House Mistress who would command you to kneel to ensure your skirt was regulation length.
But I have to say none of this did me any harm. I think I had a fabulous education and I deeply regret that parents have to pay a fortune to get that kind of education for their children nowadays -as my son and dil do for my grandsons. My dil had a similar free education to mine and also valued it immensely. She wanted the same for her sons but the state system couldn't provide it. Sadly. 
I was a scholarship girl so everything was free. My mother was a widow and got a grant for uniform, sports stuff (we played lacrosse and tennis).
Looking back, I think my education, which was deep ,thorough and aspirational for women although very middle-class and conventional in most ways, moulded my opinions in the way it may have been subconsciously intended to do. At University I turned my back on all those middle-class values, joined CND, held extreme left-wing opinions, the usual revolt. I appalled my middle-class teachers and my working-class family, both deeply conservative in their own ways.
Experience and maturity tempered much of that but I did get the habit of 'awkward' thinking for which I am very grateful.
I hear what you are saying gerrit but many children these days have so much freedom that they have nothing to rebel against or question.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

gerrit said:


> Somehow it all doesn't sound right really. The state should cover more of those expenses. Free education sounds like a void propaganda slogan when in the end it costs more than a month's salary. Why don't they just hand out photocopies or borrow out books that are property of the school instead of letting families pay for those books they cannot use again after the school year?


because the photocopying would cost a fortune in any case & you need special permissions (which you have pay for) to photocopy copyrighted stuff

having the books as the property of the school is the way it's done in the UK


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## gerrit (Jul 15, 2008)

Hmmm, odd. I never had it that way. We either had to manually take notes while the teacher dictated or explained, or we got photocopies in most cases. I cannot recall ever having had to buy a book. 

That doesn't mean education is as free as it sounds. You still have transport costs, food expenses (I ate at a local restaurant even when it was nothing poshy or classy, rather than at the school itself), pencils, writing materials, bags, folders, ... This should all be refunded or be for free in the first place before one can say education is free. If I see on what tax money is sometimes wasted, education is one of the fields where more tax money would be spent in a useful way for a large part of the community.


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## gerrit (Jul 15, 2008)

mrypg9 said:


> We had regulation knickers...navy blue in winter, blue and white check in summer to match our summer uniform of blue and white gingham check dresses and panama hats (the old-fashioned kind with elastic under the chin!)
> In winter we wore navy gymslips and white blouses with horrible square necks and when in the Sixth you wore a blouse with collar and tie. Plus a navy velour hat and gabardine raincoat. Horrible. Stockings had to be seamed - kinky We must have all looked like a bunch of teenage lesbians or those girls in that German film 'Madchen in Uniform'
> Skirt length was one inch off the ground when kneeling....pupils were often accosted by some prowling harridan of a House Mistress who would command you to kneel to ensure your skirt was regulation length.
> But I have to say none of this did me any harm. I think I had a fabulous education and I deeply regret that parents have to pay a fortune to get that kind of education for their children nowadays -as my son and dil do for my grandsons. My dil had a similar free education to mine and also valued it immensely. She wanted the same for her sons but the state system couldn't provide it. Sadly.
> ...


Well, my school days were one very long dark period and I rarely ever felt so releaved as at the moment I got the news I got my degree and could finally say farewell to the school system. I guess it does make you think indeed, critically think I mean. So i guess that is one positive of it all.

That said, I don't want children of my own, but if I were in a different situation there I'd want home education for my children. I cannot speak for UK schools but in Belgium a reform is strongly needed in schools, in the situation as it is now I'd not want my children to have their education in a regular school. Anyways, I'm not intending to reproduce so ...

In Belgium most catholic schools have a reputation of being better in quality of education, and they do often have more strict rules regarding dress etc. I always went to state schools where such restrictions were inexisting. I am thankful for that, both for that bit of freedom, but also because an atheist on a catholic school just would be very paradoxical IMO. I've always been very consequent in this sort of things, just like I refused to do my communion purely for getting the presents afterwards. I never experienced state schools were any worse than those catholic schools, as both needed to follow the same education plan drafted by the state, it's just the image and reputation of the catholic schools that was rated higher. The quality of education generally is more or less the same ; all schools are subject to the same educative plans.

In fact, I feel like I started learning only after graduating. Because every book I read now, every subject I study and research ever since graduating, was voluntarely and with great motivation and great determination. I feel I learnt more once I was out of school than back in the classroom.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

gerrit said:


> Well, my school days were one very long dark period and I rarely ever felt so releaved as at the moment I got the news I got my degree and could finally say farewell to the school system. I guess it does make you think indeed, critically think I mean. So i guess that is one positive of it all.
> 
> That said, I don't want children of my own, but if I were in a different situation there I'd want home education for my children. I cannot speak for UK schools but in Belgium a reform is strongly needed in schools, in the situation as it is now I'd not want my children to have their education in a regular school. Anyways, I'm not intending to reproduce so ...
> 
> ...


It's sad...the decent, sensible people who should have children (_like you_) don't want them for very good personal reasons - I have several friends who would make excellent parents but don't want children - and the feckless, immoral and irresponsible churn them out.
The problem with home education is that few parents have the all-round skills and knowledge needed to educate a child in this century. Plus children need socialisation and physical education...sports and games..
I'd be OK teaching French, German, English Literature, Politics and History.....but I know nothing of the sciences, technology, geography,practical stuff and loads of other necessary skills and knowledge.
I did actually have the experience of teaching my son when he arrived in the class I taught at school in the UK.
I'm not sure what he thought of the experience


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## gerrit (Jul 15, 2008)

I think sports and games should be in private atmosphere, voluntarely, rather than obligatory at school. I was bullied all the time at school because of my weak sporting skills, up to the point that --tired of constant bullying-- my doctor gave me a note saying my knee had chronical issues and should refrain from being exposed to exercise. A tiny lie yes, but one which spared me from weekly bullying from that point onwards.

Socialising is also necessary but it's not necessarily to be done at school 

Anyways, with my speeches and writings I hope to spread a bit of sensibility, so I hope that compensates a bit for not wanting to be a parent (assuming that I would be sensible -- which I don't wanna declare of myself. After all, "ego is beast, ego is evil"  the rest of the line is "but ego knows best" but I won't claim that about myself )

Sidenote irrelevant to this topic: not wanting children does make finding a "novia" harder


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## Guest (Sep 8, 2010)

gerrit said:


> Somehow it all doesn't sound right really. The state should cover more of those expenses. Free education sounds like a void propaganda slogan when in the end it costs more than a month's salary. Why don't they just hand out photocopies or borrow out books that are property of the school instead of letting families pay for those books they cannot use again after the school year?


Each school I've been in has had strict photocopy budgets. Life gets fun the moment money starts to run out!


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

hmmph

just got back from spending another 100 euros on stationary - so I underestimated that!!


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

xabiachica said:


> hmmph
> 
> just got back from spending another 100 euros on stationary - so I underestimated that!!


I'm still reeling form the compulsory NINETY EURO skirt!

Jo xxx


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

jojo said:


> I'm still reeling form the compulsory NINETY EURO skirt!
> 
> Jo xxx


 For a SCHOOL SKIRT!!!Is it Gucci, Prada or similar???


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

mrypg9 said:


> For a SCHOOL SKIRT!!!Is it Gucci, Prada or similar???


I hope it's at least 3 sizes too big too!!


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## Caz.I (Mar 21, 2009)

jojo said:


> I'm still reeling form the compulsory NINETY EURO skirt!
> 
> Jo xxx


That's El Corte Ingles for you! The shop manager must have a close relative at the school to get that sort of contract!


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

xabiachica said:


> I hope it's at least 3 sizes too big too!!


Well, lets just say that Ruby is on a diet!!!! Cos when I bought it she refuesd to try it on, so I got one I thought would be 3 sizes too big!!! Its not even that well made - Not a designer label in sight!!!!

I'm now saving up for the winter uniform which are "special" blazers for both of them at 120€ each!!!!!!

Jo xxx


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

jojo said:


> Well, lets just say that Ruby is on a diet!!!! Cos when I bought it she refuesd to try it on, so I got one I thought would be 3 sizes too big!!! Its not even that well made - Not a designer label in sight!!!!
> 
> I'm now saving up for the winter uniform which are "special" blazers for both of them at 120€ each!!!!!!
> 
> Jo xxx


& I bet it has to be exactly the right one, too

no popping over to Asda or Tesco for cheapy/value ones


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## gerrit (Jul 15, 2008)

You see uniforms are evil? 

PS: if you go to an International School, is Spanish still compulsory of do those schools follow the UK/US model without Spanish language being a compulsory subject?

Hear in Catalunya I heard from other expats who do have children, that Catalan is compulsory. Speaking of a waste of time and energy because unless those kids will spend their entire lives here, they'll never ever have to use Catalan again once they leave the area ...


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

gerrit said:


> You see uniforms are evil?
> 
> PS: if you go to an International School, is Spanish still compulsory of do those schools follow the UK/US model without Spanish language being a compulsory subject?
> 
> Hear in Catalunya I heard from other expats who do have children, that Catalan is compulsory. Speaking of a waste of time and energy because unless those kids will spend their entire lives here, they'll never ever have to use Catalan again once they leave the area ...


yes a certain number of hours of Spanish each week is compulsory & in my area so is Valenciano

IMO learning another language is never a waste of time - the more you learn the easier it is to learn more


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## gerrit (Jul 15, 2008)

Valenciano = Catalan with a slightly different accent 

Learning languages is never waste of time, indeed, but there's more useful ones than those Spanish regional languages that are not used at all outside of their area AND that are not official state languages in any other country in the world. For example replace that compulsory Valenciano/Catalan/Basque with for example German or French or, dare I say, Chinese ... would be very useful.

(yes, Chinese... given the economical changes right now China will be a major player in the future and basic Chinese skills at some point will be in demand on the job market for sure)


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

gerrit said:


> Valenciano = Catalan with a slightly different accent
> 
> Learning languages is never waste of time, indeed, but there's more useful ones than those Spanish regional languages that are not used at all outside of their area AND that are not official state languages in any other country in the world. For example replace that compulsory Valenciano/Catalan/Basque with for example German or French or, dare I say, Chinese ... would be very useful.
> 
> (yes, Chinese... given the economical changes right now China will be a major player in the future and basic Chinese skills at some point will be in demand on the job market for sure)


we might think so

just don't tell the Catalans or Valencians


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## Caz.I (Mar 21, 2009)

gerrit said:


> You see uniforms are evil?
> 
> ...


Actually, when I came to Spain, the first job I got required a uniform, even though it was working in an office! Okay we did work with the public but it was a small company so the decision to have a uniform was just down to the whims of the MD. I wouldnt have minded so much if it had some kind of style to it but it was truly hideous (like a 70s version of the British Airways stewardesses uniform) and I couldn’t bear it. We were once politely asked by some Spanish people if we worked at the airport! And when we went to the British run café opposite the office, they would greet us, with “Look out, here come the trolley dollys!” lol.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

*and there's more.........!!!*

dd2 came home with the list ...................

 means we already have it

1 agenda (diary) 

1 squared exercise book 

3 lined exercise books  - but I don't think we have the right ones we bought 2 lined books as usual & they want 1 lined...........

1 complete pencil case - pencil, rubber, pencil sharpener, blue pen, red pen, coloured pencils or crayons & felt pens 

pack of A4 coloured cards - various colours

watercolour paints - have you seen the price of them

ruler, set square - geometry stuff (she seems to have lost the ones we got last year)

2 packs of 500 sheets 80g copier paper


USB stick 1G what on earth does she need that for??





and so it continues......................



oh - & today we had send in 15 euros to pay for the school bus for all the 'little' trips


the 'big' trips out of town cost extra........................


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## Guest (Sep 15, 2010)

xabiachica said:


> watercolour paints - have you seen the price of them


Get them in a chino - unless they require specific paints, which would be ridiculous. 

I'm really surprised students have to bring copy paper.


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## gerrit (Jul 15, 2008)

Why do they make a distinction between cubed and lined paper?  The USB pen could be for anything, I heard of schools who provide every student with access to a computer in some courses as replacement for writing down on paper, receiving photocopies or handing in homework in digital format.

In my school days my parents always denied me permission to join on school trips of over 1 day, and after a while on my own request they also denied permission to join on one day field trips. Indirectly my wish to be excluded from those trips saved them a lot of money as well. For example in the last two years of elementary school the whole class went sailing in the Wadden Sea: costs included transport to Holland, ferry and boat costs, food, ... Lot of money for those who joined (= the entire class but me) ; first grades of secondary school there was a week spent with the entire class in a farm/camp. Costs included renting beds, food, transport, ... Again lot of money saved even when I was asked to join just 1 day and drive back with the transport that got the rest of the class at their location (I still don't know what the point of that was)

We also had compulsory music classes for which we were required to buy a flute, a xylophone, triangle .... Luckily that wasn't too expensive cause I cannot recall ever having used those things outside of school...


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

gerrit said:


> Why do they make a distinction between cubed and lined paper?  The USB pen could be for anything, I heard of schools who provide every student with access to a computer in some courses as replacement for writing down on paper, receiving photocopies or handing in homework in digital format.
> 
> In my school days my parents always denied me permission to join on school trips of over 1 day, and after a while on my own request they also denied permission to join on one day field trips. Indirectly my wish to be excluded from those trips saved them a lot of money as well. For example in the last two years of elementary school the whole class went sailing in the Wadden Sea: costs included transport to Holland, ferry and boat costs, food, ... Lot of money for those who joined (= the entire class but me) ; first grades of secondary school there was a week spent with the entire class in a farm/camp. Costs included renting beds, food, transport, ... Again lot of money saved even when I was asked to join just 1 day and drive back with the transport that got the rest of the class at their location (I still don't know what the point of that was)
> 
> We also had compulsory music classes for which we were required to buy a flute, a xylophone, triangle .... Luckily that wasn't too expensive cause I cannot recall ever having used those things outside of school...


the squared paper is for maths & the lined for written subjects - obvious really

the USB - if it was a high tech school with a laptop for every student I'd understand - but there is only one computer in the classroom


dd has just told me that they do however now have a huge 'smartboard' on the wall :clap2:- so maybe that's why they need it


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## djfwells (Sep 28, 2009)

My (nearly) 3 year old daughter's first day at a Valenciano big school today ! - I was almost disappointed for a second that there were no tears in the slightest, but did feel intimindated that I was the only Dad at the schoolgates. Maybe the other Mums will accept me by the time she leaves school in another 13 years time.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

djfwells said:


> My (nearly) 3 year old daughter's first day at a Valenciano big school today ! - I was almost disappointed for a second that there were no tears in the slightest, but did feel intimindated that I was the only Dad at the schoolgates. Maybe the other Mums will accept me by the time she leaves school in another 13 years time.


you mean you didn't cry at all


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## djfwells (Sep 28, 2009)

xabiachica said:


> you mean you didn't cry at all


Not in public, no.


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