# Mexico - Poverty and wealth; Does the deparity of classes affect anopinion of Mexico?



## AlanMexicali (Jun 1, 2011)

Encyclopedia of the Nations » Americas » Mexico
Mexico - Poverty and wealth

Social stratification in Mexico persists to the present day. Historically the members of the upper class were those who owned the land that the lower class cultivated. This changed with the Mexican Revolution of 1910. It has been estimated that as a result of the Revolution, the Mexican government redistributed 50 percent of the land held by the landed gentry. Today, land ownership continues to form the basis for wealth in Mexico. However, the economy's industrial transformation means that industrialists and politicians are also likely to number among the wealthy. Unfortunately, only 10 percent of Mexicans are wealthy. Another 30 percent are middle class. Fully 60 percent of Mexicans are poor, including peasants and industrial workers. The country's income is very unevenly distributed. The wealthy 10 percent of the population owns 38 percent of the country's income, the

Distribution of Income or Consumption by Percentage
Share: Mexico
Lowest 10% 1.4
Lowest 20% 3.6
Second 20% 7.2
Third 20% 11.8
Fourth 20% 19.2
Highest 20% 58.2
Highest 10% 42.8
Survey year: 1995
Note: This information refers to income shares by percentiles of the population and is ranked by per capita income.
SOURCE: 2000 World Development Indicators


Household Consumption in PPP Terms
Country All food Clothing and footwear Fuel and power a Health care b Education b Transport & Communications Other
Mexico 30 6 4 2 7 5 46
United States 13 9 9 4 6 8 51
Brazil 22 13 18 15 34 4 -6
Canada 14 5 10 4 21 9 38
Data represent percentage of consumption in PPP terms.
a Excludes energy used for transport.
b Includes government and private expenditures.
SOURCE: World Bank. World Development Indicators 2000.


middle 30 percent of the population has 36 percent, while the remaining 60 percent gets 26 percent of the country's income.

One need look no further than the indexes of health, education, and housing to understand that there are great disparities between the wealthy and poor in Mexico. With respect to health, the Mexican population has on average done well. In 1940, average life expectancy and infant mortality were respectively 42 and 125 per 1,000 live births. By the year 2000, those statistics had changed to 75.3 and 25 per 1,000 live births. But disparities persist; life expectancy is lower by 10 to 15 years and infant mortality can be twice as high in the poorer southern states like Chiapas. Health care is substantially free for all Mexican citizens. The Mexican Institute of Social Security runs hospitals and clinics that are available to workers in the formal sector. Mexicans who are not in the formal labor force are able to receive medical care from a number of different governmental agencies. Yet the reality is that receiving health care from a nurse in a rural clinic is quite different from receiving health care from an expensive specialist in the United States, an option often exercised by the wealthy in Mexico. The disparities in the nation's health statistics reflect this reality.

With respect to education, it is important to note that 89.6 percent of the population is literate. In fact, the educational system within Mexico is extensive. Education is compulsory through to the equivalent of the ninth grade. At least 1 public university can be found within each state. Mexico City boasts the country's largest public university, the National Autonomous University of Mexico, with over 275,000 students. The campus is also the repository of the country's national library. Yet public schools in Mexico have significant problems. The quality of instruction is low, the bureaucracy is ineffective, and students do not stay in school (only 60 percent of Mexican children complete primary school). Experts agree that the system does a poor job of preparing Mexican citizens to compete in a global economy. However, the disparity between rich and poor is evident here. In Mexico, the rich are more likely to be educated. They are more likely to have attended the country's better private schools, and schools in the United States, whereas in the rural villages the state may not provide education beyond the sixth grade.


The housing situation in Mexico also provides a dramatic illustration of the disparity between rich and poor in the country. Even within Mexico City it is possible to see numerous examples of the country's housing shortage. In the community of Netzahual-coyotl, on the eastern outskirts of Mexico City, over 1,000,000 lower-class Mexicans live in single-room brick structures erected on land that floods when it rains. They have few public services. By contrast, the elite western suburbs of Mexico City allow the wealthy to live with all of the amenities of modern life.

In the modern era, persistent poverty has been one of the abiding problems of the Mexican economy. The economy has few safety nets; there is no unemployment compensation and the poor do not receive welfare payments. Economic policies that have worsened things like inflation have eroded the real wages of the poor. Each incoming Mexican administration, it seems, has proposed a new government program to address the needs of the poor. Sometimes the programs have worked temporarily and sometimes not at all. And if the nation's income distribution and housing pattern is any indication, the situation appears to be worsening. While education is the ticket to upward social mobility in Mexico, it is not at all clear that the state is providing educational opportunities for the poor.


Mexico Poverty and wealth, Information about Poverty and wealth in Mexico: Mexico Poverty and wealth, Information about Poverty and wealth in Mexico


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## mickisue1 (Mar 10, 2012)

The good news for Mexico is that they're going in the correct direction: better healthcare and better education for those in poverty have a direct effect on their ability to break into the middle class.

This is a bit dry, but illustrates the direction the US is going: Who Rules America: Wealth, Income, and Power.


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## AlanMexicali (Jun 1, 2011)

Household Consumption in PPP - purchasing power parity


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## pappabee (Jun 22, 2010)

You’ll have to excuse me but I don’t understand what you’re trying to say. Any person with the ability to see can tell that there is a lot of poverty in Mexico. And the same is true for much of the rest of the world. Just take a look at a slum in Rio or Calcutta. You might try driving around the old coal country of Appalachia in the US. Poverty exists and we should not need a bunch of figures to prove it, just our eyes. 

The real question should be not is there poverty but what is being done to help correct it. Not a whole lot of anything. Yes the Mexican Government has raised the minimum wage in some places but, from what I’ve been told, it’s not being enforced much and it doesn’t help the farm workers or those who work daily labor.

What can we as expats do to help the poor? Give to charity? Volunteer our services? What???

One thing we as expats might do is treat the Mexicans we come in contact with like we would expect to be treated ourselves. The ugly American still exists; just keep those eyes open as you move around town. You know something; I get dirty looks from some expats when I tell them how much I pay my housekeeper. I was told by one that I was a fool because I could get her to work for much less and why am I hurting the rest of the expat community by helping to raise the rates? 

My wife just had surgery and that same housekeeper just insisted that she stay 24/7 to take care of her during her recovery. She has three kids at home and her family will care for them while she cares for my wife. I asked her why and she said it’s out of love for my family. 

Facts don’t tell us what we need to know; only our minds can do that. Use our senses and then figure out what we can do to make something better. Remember that one person can move a mountain if they do it one handful at a time.


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## AlanMexicali (Jun 1, 2011)

*Comapred to iother 3rd. World countries*



pappabee said:


> You’ll have to excuse me but I don’t understand what you’re trying to say. Any person with the ability to see can tell that there is a lot of poverty in Mexico. And the same is true for much of the rest of the world. Just take a look at a slum in Rio or Calcutta. You might try driving around the old coal country of Appalachia in the US. Poverty exists and we should not need a bunch of figures to prove it, just our eyes.
> 
> The real question should be not is there poverty but what is being done to help correct it. Not a whole lot of anything. Yes the Mexican Government has raised the minimum wage in some places but, from what I’ve been told, it’s not being enforced much and it doesn’t help the farm workers or those who work daily labor.
> 
> ...



I was interested and amazed at some of these statics: 89.7% are literate in Mexico.

The infant mortality rate is low and others that don't collateral to your comparing Mexico to any other nation or their areas or others regions of the US [you can do this in Mexico] that you think are in the same situation, in my opinion.

The reasons for some of them have to be hard to figure out.

Facts sometimes help us to understand things a bit better.

I am not trying to make things better for anyone, that is their responsibility. IMO If being generous is a little help I am all for it.


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## sparks (Jun 17, 2007)

>>>> Facts sometimes help us to understand things a bit better.

For someone from outside Mexico looking in maybe. For me it's 'feeling' the way it is by being here ... not writing a college paper


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## pappabee (Jun 22, 2010)

AlanMexicali said:


> I was interested and amazed at some of these statics: 89.7% are literate in Mexico.
> 
> The infant mortality rate is low and others that don't collateral to your comparing Mexico to any other nation or their areas or others regions of the US [you can do this in Mexico] that you think are in the same situation, in my opinion.
> 
> ...


As I said I was confused as to what you were trying to say. Yes facts can help but it would have been better if you had taken some of the facts and used them to make a point or two. I was not trying to compare Mexico with other countries just that horrable slums exist all over. 

I have enjoyed much of what you have said in the past but you blew my mind with your statement "I am not trying to make things better for anyone, that is their responsibility". What a horrible thing to say.
Since most of us expacts are better off than the very poor Mexican are we just to say 'they're poor so let them be poor'. All I was asking was to respect their culture, respect their work ethic, respect their way of life and respect them has human beings.


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## AlanMexicali (Jun 1, 2011)

pappabee said:


> As I said I was confused as to what you were trying to say. Yes facts can help but it would have been better if you had taken some of the facts and used them to make a point or two. I was not trying to compare Mexico with other countries just that horrable slums exist all over.
> 
> I have enjoyed much of what you have said in the past but you blew my mind with your statement "I am not trying to make things better for anyone, that is their responsibility". What a horrible thing to say.
> Since most of us expacts are better off than the very poor Mexican are we just to say 'they're poor so let them be poor'. All I was asking was to respect their culture, respect their work ethic, respect their way of life and respect them has human beings.


That is not a horrible thing to say. Being responsible for your own life brings you self respect. That could go to a bigger picture and include things like: If you stopped complaining about, for example, the school unions causing interference in education here, then vote in or petition a gov't. that will stop their corruption, etc, all down the line to where if you don't like your job find another one etc. I know some have little chance of getting up in life, but is that a reason to do B&Es for a living? Most do respect others and that has little do do with others that are not responsible. I have no intention at my age of doing anything other than living a useful and content life. Poverty is only upsetting to notice if you let it be upsetting. Those might be some of the happiest people. Money and prestige does not automatically bring happiness.


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## AlanMexicali (Jun 1, 2011)

You stated: "Since most of us expacts are better off than the very poor Mexican are we just to say 'they're poor so let them be poor'. All I was asking was to respect their culture, respect their work ethic, respect their way of life and respect them has human beings."


Expats are such a small insignificant part of the population I don't see what they could effectively do that the larger middle and influential classes actual might be able to accomplice if motivated. As in most industrialized countries a welfare system could be set up, as the article mentioned has been talked about in Mexico but nothing has happened. This might bring petty crime down considerably. Most people I know enough to chat with here in Mexico do not disrespect others because they have little. Why would expats be much different except possibly we never grew up in Mexico and have not seen this all along. The locals have probably seen things get much better over their lifetime and are content with the improvements? Some visitors might have to get over cultural shock. I know I did and I know you did. We both have no problem with the way things are done here, as do most expats after awhile come to understand the idiosyncrasies. I think your maid would have spent her off time with your wife no matter what her wages are, it's just the way things are between you three.


My original question in the title was: "Does the deparity of classes affect an opinion of Mexico?"

This would be your experience as well as any family and friends who came to visit for awhile and what their opinion of Mexico was/is because of the disparity.


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## conorkilleen (Apr 28, 2010)

I agree that there is very little that we expats can do to "help" the situation with low wages and the people that need to earn them to get by. We expats are very very limited to what we can do in politics and government dealings. 

If you want to pay your gardener and your maid double what is appropriate, then so be it. Go for it. Who cares? I don't have a gardener or a maid. I can afford a whole team of laborers if I need them, however I choose not to. I have a wife and 3 children that can use that money more. All of my neighbors have at least one or two full time live in servants, but they are more wealthy than I. So I don't think twice about it. 

What I DO is make sure that the guy/girl that bags my groceries, helps me park my car at the meat market, the guy behind the counter that goes out of his way to cut me the best chunk of meat they have, or the guy that washes my car in the mall parking lot gets a handsome tip.

-grocery bagger- at least 20 pesos for his time. I am buying groceries for 5 people most times and its a lot of work. I have seen some mexicans only give 2 pesos for the same amount of groceries. If you just spent 3,000 in Soriana, you can afford 20 pesos for a tip. At Christmas I gave they guy that usually bags my groceries 100 pesos. I got a mean look from the well off looking lady behind me. Who cares. I was thinking to myself "You give him the usual 3 peso tip and I will give him 100....lets see whose bread gets smashed."
-Guy that helps me park my car at the meat market- Sure, I can park it myself, however he is out in the MTY heat 12 hours a day. I usually buy him an ice cold water and give a 10 peso tip. I gave him 200 pesos this year as a tip on Christmas day. Hell, they were open on Christmas and he was busting his hump!. Guess who gets a parking space saved for them every Sunday? Yeah. Thats right.
-Dude behind the meat counter- He gets 20 pesos regardless of the purchase. He knows me and knows the cut of meat I buy every week. Sometimes he even sets aside the best cuts for me to look at and cuts me 4-5 1" t-bones to qualify before he will even sell me the 2 kilos I asked. He knows the perfect ratio of fat/meat that we like and won't settle for anything else. I gave him 200 pesos last Christmas. Not in the tip jar, but hand to hand. I wanted to make sure he knew who loves 'em. Because of that, I get the royal treatment.
-The guy that washes my car at the mall- He speaks broken english and once lived in NC where I come from. He gets a 20 peso tip as well. I usually wash my own car, but he does an awesome job for me. He even buffed out the scratches on the rear hatch without me asking.

So all in all, I only pay less than 5 bucks per week and less than 50 bucks per year to get treated like a king. respect them and they will respect you back. Also helps to grease some palms, but showing that you appreciate the service goes a long way.


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## conklinwh (Dec 19, 2009)

Interesting blend of facts, responsibility, actuality and what I'm doing.
In the facts line, I picked up The News Friday and there was an article on Calderone's pre-election "silence period" state of the union. In there he quoted INEGI(National Statics, Geography and Information Institute) report put out as part of the 2010 census that extreme poverty and inequality declined by 23% between 2000 and 2010. Further, thanks to his administration's social policy, 34 million people in poverty received economic and food aid to "improve their quality of life". 
Not sure what you' all see but there has been a clear uptick in economic activity and conspicuous consumption among local Mexicans in our little pueblo and the parent city of San Luis de la Paz. I'm not sure if generally better economics, the return of a lot of men from NOB, the focus on making Pozos a tourist destination, other or all of the above.
Getting back to the base question, I guess the answer is how you perceive the impact of whatever local poverty you see on you. When I was in Asia 1994-2000, China and India had basically equal average income per person, both very low. There was no effect on me in China and my perception was good. India a different story. The slums in north Mumbai were stifling and you basically couldn't walk the streets in Delhi. As much as India had to offer, each time I was there, I couldn't wait to leave. Only other place that I had such feelings was in Nairobi although passing the city dump with all the kids on the way in from the airport in Manila was tough.
As with China, I know that there are many people with very little in Mexico but I don't get the view that it has defeated them and has become oppressive. I'm sure there might be areas of D.F. where true. People here really want the opportunity to be better and most seem very willing to work at it. As long as this holds, and violence doesn't overwhelm nascent growth, I'm very comfortable.


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## RPBHaas (Dec 21, 2011)

AlanMexicali said:


> I was interested and amazed at some of these statics: 89.7% are literate in Mexico.
> 
> The infant mortality rate is low and others that don't collateral to your comparing Mexico to any other nation or their areas or others regions of the US [you can do this in Mexico] that you think are in the same situation, in my opinion.
> The reasons for some of them have to be hard to figure out.
> ...


I have traveled to many parts of Mexico and have employed over 300 Mexican citizens over the past 15 years and I have never been to any place or been with any group where 89.7% could not read or write. Not even close. I have projects next to tiny towns comprised of mostly indigenous people and still the majority of them can write. 89.7% sounds like an awfully high percentage. It is apparent that some of the older generation have less literacy skills than the younger folks, but the median age in Mexico is in the 20's I believe. It has been my experience that the majority of my workers finish 6th grade and then enter the workforce in some capacity. I have only had 1 college educated worker during the 15 years.

I guess being in a somewhat unique position of employing a Mexican workforce has afforded me an opportunity to interact with the populace in a unique way. During my first project near San Luis Potosi, I wanted to pay the workforce similar wages to that in the US. I was advised, by Mexican nationals, not to do that for a variety of reasons. One was mentioned in this thread, that I would effectively be raising the wages needlessly and that I can pay less since that is how it is done in Mexico. The most important reason was due to the syndicatos and the potential issues I could have with them. 
This unique position also affords me the opportunity to actually do something to help against poverty. Since many of my projects are in the mountains, I employ many locals. Some of these workers have not had the opportunity to work in quite some time since there had been little work available. The employment in these regions not only helps my worker but also the store owner, the restaraunts, the mechanics etc. I have also helped some of the small schools in providing lunches for the kids. I think we Expats that are still in the workforce can and do have a positive influence on the local populace. Some with a larger footprint than others. Any of us that use money that is generated in the US or other countries are helping the local economies where we live and work.


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## PieGrande (Nov 16, 2008)

>>I have never been to any place or been with any group where 89.7% could not read or write.

The figure was 89.7% literate, that is 89.7% can read and write.


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## RVGRINGO (May 16, 2007)

Originally Posted by AlanMexicali
"I was interested and amazed at some of these statics: 89.7% are literate in Mexico".

Reply by RPBHaas
".......and I have never been to any place or been with any group where 89.7% could not read or write."

Literate = They can read and write.
Illiterate = They cannot read and write.

There was a slight misreading, I think.


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## RPBHaas (Dec 21, 2011)

RVGRINGO said:


> Originally Posted by AlanMexicali
> "I was interested and amazed at some of these statics: 89.7% are literate in Mexico".
> 
> Reply by RPBHaas
> ...


I apologize about the misuse of the meaning of the word "or" instead of and. (OOPS, I sound like Bill Clinton!)

My point is I believe the figure to be outdated, maybe 20 years ago, or possibly misleading. In my experience with a minimally educated workforce, laborer types, the vast majority could/can read or write or both.

On another note, in response to Conklinwh's post from earlier, I have seen a positive difference in Mexico since I first started traveling here in 1999. There seems to be more of a middle class and more of the mindset that anything can be accomplished if one works hard, studies and stays out of trouble.


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## conorkilleen (Apr 28, 2010)

RPBHaas said:


> On another note, in response to Conklinwh's post from earlier, I have seen a positive difference in Mexico since I first started traveling here in 1999. There seems to be more of a middle class and more of the mindset that anything can be accomplished if one works hard, studies and stays out of trouble.


Yes. This is something that I don't think as many Mexicans understand as we would hope. However, I know Mexicans are not lazy. In fact, I truly believe that Americans don't understand this thinking. The Mexican stereotype from most Americans are that they are lazy and lay around in hammocks all day. I personally know 50+ Mexicans that would work circles around an american doing the same job.


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## mickisue1 (Mar 10, 2012)

RPBHaas said:


> I apologize about the misuse of the meaning of the word "or" instead of and. (OOPS, I sound like Bill Clinton!)
> 
> My point is I believe the figure to be outdated, maybe 20 years ago, or possibly misleading. In my experience with a minimally educated workforce, laborer types, the vast majority could/can read or write or both.
> 
> On another note, in response to Conklinwh's post from earlier, I have seen a positive difference in Mexico since I first started traveling here in 1999. There seems to be more of a middle class and more of the mindset that anything can be accomplished if one works hard, studies and stays out of trouble.


I think you are still missing it, maybe?

That statistic says that nearly 90% of all Mexicans CAN both read and write.

Factor in the number of older people, still alive, who cannot, and it's a great testament to Mexico's education system.

Compare that to this: Literacy study: 1 in 7 U.S. adults are unable to read this story - USATODAY.com

The US, with all its wealth, has a lower percentage of literate adults than Mexico.

Infant mortality in the US is lower than in Mexico; we are #34, they are #88 in that ranking.

Given that the US ranks behind not only every country in the EU, but places like Brunei and Macau, we don't have a lot of bragging to do on that score. 

For the record, we are also 10 places behind Canada.


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## dongringo (Dec 13, 2010)

I think the principal difference between US and Mexican middle class is home ownership. Most homes in Mexico are non mortgaged. That is changing, but it still thwarts a US/Mexico comparison where up to 40% of US middle class income is spent on mortgages.

The same is true for the so called "poor". Most own their land and home, dismal as it may be. In addition there are dozens of welfare programs which when manipulated correctly make many poor, middle class. 

As for overpaying an employee, I think that's stupid in my opinion. A fair going wage makes more sense. If you want to give away money, find a charity that will not bite you back as future employee squabbles may.

Unfortunately Mexico has little chance of improving it poverty statistics, although hailed by every administration. After many years of aggressively pushing birth control, Mexico is now again in the deathgrip of overpopulation. Too many seeking non existent jobs. If this were the Chinese economy with a 10% growth rate, perhaps the country could accomodate, instead it barely achieves equivalence with its inflation figures.

Curiously, the last 3 Mexican presidents were US educated. I think they got the wrong picture.

A US middle class spectator will possibly chuckle at Mexican middle class statistics. But that is based on an incomplete picture that can only be understood by experiencing Mexican life.

So yes, I would answer the origial poster by saying your own social class affects your opinion about what should be equivalent Mexicans. But there are so many nuances that, if you care, can only be learned and understood by local interaction, NOT statistics.


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## AlanMexicali (Jun 1, 2011)

*Middle Class*



dongringo said:


> A US middle class spectator will possibly chuckle at Mexican middle class statistics. But that is based on an incomplete picture that can only be understood by experiencing Mexican life.
> 
> So yes, I would answer the original poster by saying your own social class affects your opinion about what should be equivalent Mexicans. But there are so many nuances that, if you care, can only be learned and understood by local interaction, NOT statistics.


These observations you mentioned, and there are many more, do make comparisons from Americans and Canadians in their perspective countries skewed when actually we would be trying to compare apples to oranges in some cases by just noting the disparity visually. IMO

I see the Mexican professional middle class as being in a better position than their counterparts in the US and Canada not because of their wages, which are a fraction of US and Canadian wages for the same profession, but because of things like income to debt ratio and the ability to have things a middle class professional in the US or Canada can not afford.

A middle class skilled laborer in the US and Canada, in my opinion, has a very big advantage compared to their Mexican counterpart because of the very vast difference in wages, which would contribute to some of the costs of doing business in Mexico much to the advantage of those with a better income were in the US and Canada it is no advantage at all. These might be some of the things expats appreciate being a part of. It appears that this disparity alone can effect home ownership and business ownership considerable here and there.

Being basically a cash society and taxes hard to collect in past decades is a plus for many that the US and Canada did not have. In other words, it was hard to pay for large purchases without debts, plus building codes and other particulars, where in NOB things were built to consider the cold and heat. If Mexicans have land and friends and money to buy building materials bit by bit a house with no debt could be built. This is something visitors from NOB probably would not realize, that like you state, it might not be much but for many it does not have a monthly payment and even if their wages are low they have money for their children's quincineras, large weddings, big family parties, help take care of mom and dad, and are happy to afford them all. Most NOB people do not generally do these types of things very often like Mexican families do, I would think. So when some see a poor looking area with poorer houses, maybe the lifestyle is social heaven for many working class people. Not all of course.


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## PieGrande (Nov 16, 2008)

Good posting, Alan. I find pretty much the same thing. In the US, you don't start construction until you have financing approved for the whole project. Here, they get a bit of money, and start on the footings. When the money is gone, they stop, until they again get some money. You see block houses sitting there for years with no roof, and no government complaints. Then, finally, they get money and the house is finished.

We have neighbors with houses made of 'sticks', that is, tree branches, with palms or corrugated steel roofs.

I even saw one poor family which piled up blocks, no mortar, to make walls, a make shift door, and corrugated steel for the roof, no windows at all. It was low, so even the Mexican people had to walk around bent over. But, in the end, they progressed a bit at a time.

Also, here in rural Mexico, once you get a house to live in, you can live very cheaply if you must.

We pride ourselves in the US for having a better life, but we have families trying to live in their car, and people living in boxes under bridges. Much better the stick houses! I have been in them, and they are primitive, but comfortable.


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## jasavak (Nov 22, 2011)

If the U.S economy continues its path , the U.S. residents will be jumping the southern Mexican border looking for work . 

If you analyze the standard of living , Mexicans live pretty well . They eat better food and good drink . They don't have $300,000 in debt and spend better quality time with family and friends than most people . I see Mexican families that live better on $600 a month , than nob people who earn 5-10 times that .


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## RVGRINGO (May 16, 2007)

*What is poverty?*



jasavak said:


> If the U.S economy continues its path , the U.S. residents will be jumping the southern Mexican border looking for work .
> 
> If you analyze the standard of living , Mexicans live pretty well . They eat better food and good drink . They don't have $300,000 in debt and spend better quality time with family and friends than most people . I see Mexican families that live better on $600 a month , than nob people who earn 5-10 times that .


Climate sure does play a significant role in the definition of poverty.
Up north, we had annual taxes in the thousands, had to drive everywhere and needed multiple cars. We had heavy heating bills in the winter and cooling bills in the summer. We couldn't go anywhere without paying tolls or admission fees, even the beach.

In Mexico, annual taxes are miniscule, there are tiendas everywhere and buses are cheap for access to other places, a car is nice but not necessary. Most houses have neither furnace nor air conditioning in our area; they aren't needed. On Sundays, museums are free, seniors travel at half price and beaches belong to the people.

Money is the first consideration up north, but about #8 on the list of a Mexican's priorities. Since the climate won't kill you, and the food is fantastic, one can be poor in monetary terms, but still happy or even 'wealthy' in terms of happiness, contentment and enjoyment of life.

So: Are you rich or poor? Do you know the difference? Does it matter?


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## AlanMexicali (Jun 1, 2011)

*Poor or Rich*



RVGRINGO said:


> Climate sure does play a significant role in the definition of poverty.
> Up north, we had annual taxes in the thousands, had to drive everywhere and needed multiple cars. We had heavy heating bills in the winter and cooling bills in the summer. We couldn't go anywhere without paying tolls or admission fees, even the beach.
> 
> In Mexico, annual taxes are miniscule, there are tiendas everywhere and buses are cheap for access to other places, a car is nice but not necessary. Most houses have neither furnace nor air conditioning in our area; they aren't needed. On Sundays, museums are free, seniors travel at half price and beaches belong to the people.
> ...


This is a very good description of the way things are in most places. I feel all Mexicans living in Mexico know what you just described and do not have the same view we might have of what is a poor person's or working class person's life is made of. One other thing I have noticed is the children play a much greater role in esteem here. What we might consider odd in a family having many more children NOB here would be considered the family being prosperous, possibly. The parents of larger families seem to be proud and looked on upon by their peers as being lucky. [Dios quiere que este.]


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## jasavak (Nov 22, 2011)

mickisue1 said:


> I think you are still missing it, maybe?
> 
> That statistic says that nearly 90% of all Mexicans CAN both read and write.
> 
> ...



The data is very skewed . Of course the U.S. has a higher amount of people who can't read that article . We have a melting pot of people from a hundred different countries . 

Also , the statistics compare apples to oranges because many countries disregard still born infants and use a different method of calculation .


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## jasavak (Nov 22, 2011)

*Poor*



RVGRINGO said:


> Climate sure does play a significant role in the definition of poverty.
> Up north, we had annual taxes in the thousands, had to drive everywhere and needed multiple cars. We had heavy heating bills in the winter and cooling bills in the summer. We couldn't go anywhere without paying tolls or admission fees, even the beach.
> 
> In Mexico, annual taxes are miniscule, there are tiendas everywhere and buses are cheap for access to other places, a car is nice but not necessary. Most houses have neither furnace nor air conditioning in our area; they aren't needed. On Sundays, museums are free, seniors travel at half price and beaches belong to the people.
> ...


 Yup . The U.S. government has piles of stats telling us about our poor and how they need to be addressed . I know plenty of poor people who have two cars , 3 tv's , pets , expensive tattoos , fat kids and gold jewelry .


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