# Self Sufficiency



## christopherdouglas

Hello All,
After a couple of false starts we are all sorted to come out for 10 days at the end of this month (Feb) to look at a number of properties.
We were wondering if anyone on the forum is into self sufficiency in a big(ish) way and wouldn’t mind a visit from a couple of wouldbe’s?
We are going to be staying near Tábua but travelling all over the triangle between Lisboa, Porto & Oliveira do Hospital so any location would be ok for us.
Our version of self sufficiency is Solar, Wind, growing crops and keeping Poultry, Pigs and a Cow but this may have to change depending upon the location & condition of the eventual plot.
Any offers/advice/suggestions (for & against - yes we know we're mad) would be very welcome.
Thanks all,
Chris & Hellen, Southampton, UK, 1° which feels like -12° and its starting to snow!


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## Estebes

There is a couple of projects with EU aproval to sell electricity to EDP. You sell at 0.45 (I think the price is correct) and you buy it at 0.11 in Euros/KW.


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## christopherdouglas

*Good to know*



Estebes said:


> There is a couple of projects with EU aproval to sell electricity to EDP. You sell at 0.45 (I think the price is correct) and you buy it at 0.11 in Euros/KW.


Hi, thanks for that. Don't think we would ever get near to producingenough to do that but it's good to know that EDP do that that sort of deal if we ever do!
Regards, Hellen & Chris


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## Estebes

christopherdouglas said:


> Hi, thanks for that. Don't think we would ever get near to producingenough to do that but it's good to know that EDP do that that sort of deal if we ever do!
> Regards, Hellen & Chris


In the portuguese law, it's less onerous for you to make your own electrecity and sell it to the only portuguese suplier than produce to your own comsumption. If you still want to do that you will need a lot more hardware including batteries, and all sort of things and it will be a lot more expensive and it will take a lot of more time to recover the many that you have intvested on it.

Cheers,

Alex


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## christopherdouglas

*Mmm*



Estebes said:


> In the portuguese law, it's less onerous for you to make your own electrecity and sell it to the only portuguese suplier than produce to your own comsumption. If you still want to do that you will need a lot more hardware including batteries, and all sort of things and it will be a lot more expensive and it will take a lot of more time to recover the many that you have intvested on it.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Alex


Hi Alex,
Well, there's another thing we didn't know - and another thing to look into when we come over! Thanks, we were looking for more things to do
No, really, thats VERY helpful and yet another brilliant piece of advice from someone on the forum.
Regards,
Chris


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## alasdair alexander

*The Good Life*

We are also hoping to do the same thing. The problem for us is that we were born with nothing and litererally have nothing still. It would be interesting for us to find out how you get on and also to hear from people in Portugal who are living the good life.
I know that for many people living in Portugal that a "self sufficient" life is something that they are still doing from way back and if you can speak a bit of Portugese then a visit to some rural areas would pay dividends for you. All you would need to do is get chatting to some friendly locals.
Because a lot of property is literally in the middle of nowhere many are not connected to the utilities that in the UK we take for granted so there are bound to be lots of ingenious ideas about. 
As to the keeping of livestock and growing crops I dont know what the deal is but the weather is a lot better and the growing season will be extended making life a bit easier and giving you more options. 
Are you planning on living totally off the land or do you have an idea for extra income for luxuries? We are trying to think of ideas that will allow us to live the good life but allow us to have some sort of income at the same time.
I would be inerested to hear back from you and find out how you get on. Sorry that I am not really any help but I am going to do some research and will let you know if anything useful comes up.

Alasdair Alexander


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## Veronica

christopherdouglas said:


> Hello All,
> After a couple of false starts we are all sorted to come out for 10 days at the end of this month (Feb) to look at a number of properties.
> We were wondering if anyone on the forum is into self sufficiency in a big(ish) way and wouldn’t mind a visit from a couple of wouldbe’s?
> We are going to be staying near Tábua but travelling all over the triangle between Lisboa, Porto & Oliveira do Hospital so any location would be ok for us.
> Our version of self sufficiency is Solar, Wind, growing crops and keeping Poultry, Pigs and a Cow but this may have to change depending upon the location & condition of the eventual plot.
> Any offers/advice/suggestions (for & against - yes we know we're mad) would be very welcome.
> Thanks all,
> Chris & Hellen, Southampton, UK, 1° which feels like -12° and its starting to snow!



Look into Photvoltaic energy. You can google info on it.
Here in Cyprus the government gives grants to anyone installing and a system makes more than enough electricity for your own consumption with plenty left over to sell to the national grid. Maybe Portugal will have similar grants available.
It works in much the same way as in Portugal I think in that you sell what you produce to the grid and then buy what you need at a much lower cost so in the end you are in profit.


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## christopherdouglas

*Its similar*



Veronica said:


> Look into Photvoltaic energy. You can google info on it.
> Here in Cyprus the government gives grants to anyone installing and a system makes more than enough electricity for your own consumption with plenty left over to sell to the national grid. Maybe Portugal will have similar grants available.
> It works in much the same way as in Portugal I think in that you sell what you produce to the grid and then buy what you need at a much lower cost so in the end you are in profit.


Hi Veronica,
Sorry for the slow post, I drive for a living and have had to be away for a while
Thanks for that, yes it seems that, as Alex (Estebes) said, it is better to make electricity, sell it to the grid and buy back what you use (as little as possible hopefully!)
This has the benefit of a)having electricity WHEN you need it and b) being able to put it INTO the grid whenever you make it (i.e. wind doesn't blow when you need to see in the dark but it WILL blow when you are asleep and can't use it!)
Regards, Chris


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## christopherdouglas

*Livestock, Crops & Luxuries?*



alasdair alexander said:


> We are also hoping to do the same thing. The problem for us is that we were born with nothing and litererally have nothing still. It would be interesting for us to find out how you get on and also to hear from people in Portugal who are living the good life.
> I know that for many people living in Portugal that a "self sufficient" life is something that they are still doing from way back and if you can speak a bit of Portugese then a visit to some rural areas would pay dividends for you. All you would need to do is get chatting to some friendly locals.
> Because a lot of property is literally in the middle of nowhere many are not connected to the utilities that in the UK we take for granted so there are bound to be lots of ingenious ideas about.
> As to the keeping of livestock and growing crops I dont know what the deal is but the weather is a lot better and the growing season will be extended making life a bit easier and giving you more options.
> Are you planning on living totally off the land or do you have an idea for extra income for luxuries? We are trying to think of ideas that will allow us to live the good life but allow us to have some sort of income at the same time.
> I would be inerested to hear back from you and find out how you get on. Sorry that I am not really any help but I am going to do some research and will let you know if anything useful comes up.
> 
> Alasdair Alexander


Hi Alasdair,
I was starting to think that I was the only 'crazy' person on the forum - no one has dared to mention 'livestock' on this post yet (it doesn't come in a tin, it usually smells and it needs feeding - sounds good to me!)
Well, yes to most of your post - apart from the luxuries - unless you mean the Vinho Verde & the Vinho de Mesa and they are essentials
I have sent a PM as my reply was a bit long and detailed to take up space here! (anyone interested enough to want a copy, just ask).
And, yes, when we come back I'll be so full of it you won't be able to keep me from telling you ALL about it
Also, sorry it's taken a while to get back to you, same excuse as to Veronica above
Regards,
Chris


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## Chris Thorpe

christopherdouglas said:


> Hello All,
> After a couple of false starts we are all sorted to come out for 10 days at the end of this month (Feb) to look at a number of properties.
> We were wondering if anyone on the forum is into self sufficiency in a big(ish) way and wouldn’t mind a visit from a couple of wouldbe’s?
> We are going to be staying near Tábua but travelling all over the triangle between Lisboa, Porto & Oliveira do Hospital so any location would be ok for us.
> Our version of self sufficiency is Solar, Wind, growing crops and keeping Poultry, Pigs and a Cow but this may have to change depending upon the location & condition of the eventual plot.
> Any offers/advice/suggestions (for & against - yes we know we're mad) would be very welcome.
> Thanks all,
> Chris & Hellen, Southampton, UK, 1° which feels like -12° and its starting to snow!


Chris, Talk to Pat and Richard (Orkney to Portugal) they gave us loads of very good advice and Richard knows a lot about Eco-things and can find land that not even the locals know about! Seriously, they are both reliable and knowledgeable, its because of them that we came here from Spain.


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## christopherdouglas

Hi Chris, Thanks for the idea. Pat & Richard will be sorry you said that. Ha Ha!!!
I have also PM'd you with a reply. Regards, Chris


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## nmreich

christopherdouglas,

You've got the right idea for sure. I am considering moving to Portugal and eventually (depending upon world economic situation) moving into all alternative energy/self-sufficient lifestyle (because quite frankly our current world system of global debt isn't working).

That said, my father has a solar house in Cyprus. His operating expenses are about 200.00 euros per year.


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## christopherdouglas

Hi MNREICH
Er . . .
Your Father is doing something VERY wrong then. I have an Uncle there, he started with one house and by living on a lot less than 200,000 euro a year (how can anyone spend that much?) he now owns three and he keeps telling me that WE should join him. Well, I don't want to. Thank you. Cyprus is lovely,but, it's an island. We are trying to get away from an island. Anyway . . .
As for Portugal, I wouldn't call it an 'lifestyle', it's more buying and running a Portuguese farm.
Self sufficient but, not in a 'tree hugging' way (sorry to the 'tree huggers'), just to support ourselves as much as is, reasonably, possible without getting too involved in the 'Cause'
So, don't consider it - do it!
Regards,
Chris & Hellen


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## nmreich

christopherdouglas said:


> Hi MNREICH
> Er . . .
> Your Father is doing something VERY wrong then. I have an Uncle there, he started with one house and by living on a lot less than 200,000 euro a year (how can anyone spend that much?) he now owns three and he keeps telling me that WE should join him. Well, I don't want to. Thank you. Cyprus is lovely,but, it's an island. We are trying to get away from an island. Anyway . . .
> As for Portugal, I wouldn't call it an 'lifestyle', it's more buying and running a Portuguese farm.
> Self sufficient but, not in a 'tree hugging' way (sorry to the 'tree huggers'), just to support ourselves as much as is, reasonably, possible without getting too involved in the 'Cause'
> So, don't consider it - do it!
> Regards,
> Chris & Hellen


LOL!! 

My Dad's utility bills are TWO HUNDRED euros per year. I think you saw an extra zero there (and in usa we use "." as a "," monetary separator so I can see how it could be confused.)


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## christopherdouglas

Right - Wow - thats really good, sorry got a bit carried away when I saw the zeros!
And, yes you are so right about the world in general - thats why so many people are looking at moving to a new life in a country that isn't quite so wrapped up in consumerism.
Right, off to pack, Portugal here we come.
All the best,
Chris.


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## sarah.s

*Hi from Bournemouth*



christopherdouglas said:


> Hello All,
> After a couple of false starts we are all sorted to come out for 10 days at the end of this month (Feb) to look at a number of properties.
> We were wondering if anyone on the forum is into self sufficiency in a big(ish) way and wouldn’t mind a visit from a couple of wouldbe’s?
> We are going to be staying near Tábua but travelling all over the triangle between Lisboa, Porto & Oliveira do Hospital so any location would be ok for us.
> Our version of self sufficiency is Solar, Wind, growing crops and keeping Poultry, Pigs and a Cow but this may have to change depending upon the location & condition of the eventual plot.
> Any offers/advice/suggestions (for & against - yes we know we're mad) would be very welcome.
> Thanks all,
> Chris & Hellen, Southampton, UK, 1° which feels like -12° and its starting to snow!


Hi Chris and Hellen

Was just reading your plans in Feb and was wondering how you got on?
Colin and i are heading out to Portugal after summer, maybe sooner if the right place comes up to do the same thing - find land and build an eco dwelling. 
Would love to hear of your adventures so far!

Sarah and Colin, Bournemouth


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## christopherdouglas

Hi Sarah & Colin,
Have only signed on for a mo to catch up with a couple of messages.
Yes, we will send re our experience so far, good & bad (mostly very good). We'll get back to you in a couple of days (can e-mail you photos as well if you want),
Regards,
Chris & Hellen


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## sarah.s

Great look forward to hearing from you, photos would be good too!


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## Luvvin-tarifa

Hi, Just came across your post and thought you would like to know your not alone, I too am a mad woman about to take on a rented farm in Portugal to live a self sufficient life with my children, I am a single mum, and though I have got experience of livestock and growing having rented a smallholding in the Uk for a while ten years ago, I will still be on a learning curve when I get to Portugal.

I shall have a limited income when I move out there but am 100% sure that we will be just fine mainly due to the fact I am taking on a working farm which therefore already has fruit and veg planted plus goats, chickens, etc.

I wish you all the best of luck and when I get out there your more than welcome to come and have a look at my setup, I will have solar electric and hot water, so will be totally off grid as the water comes from a spring.

Congrats on being mad, though personally I think being eco minded and into self sufficiency is normal and it's people with all their electric gadgets who are mad! 

Good luck!!
M


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## sarah.s

hey thats great, inspirational and bound to be a happy venture for you and your family. I'd love to hear how you get on, colin and i are not over there yet but are in spirit and hope to view land for building on in september. 

good luck! 
Sarah


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## cliveanthony

*we are trying to be selfsufficiency*



christopherdouglas said:


> Hello All,
> After a couple of false starts we are all sorted to come out for 10 days at the end of this month (Feb) to look at a number of properties.
> We were wondering if anyone on the forum is into self sufficiency in a big(ish) way and wouldn’t mind a visit from a couple of wouldbe’s?
> We are going to be staying near Tábua but travelling all over the triangle between Lisboa, Porto & Oliveira do Hospital so any location would be ok for us.
> Our version of self sufficiency is Solar, Wind, growing crops and keeping Poultry, Pigs and a Cow but this may have to change depending upon the location & condition of the eventual plot.
> Any offers/advice/suggestions (for & against - yes we know we're mad) would be very welcome.
> Thanks all,
> Chris & Hellen, Southampton, UK, 1° which feels like -12° and its starting to snow!


we live in alcacer do sal we grow all our veg and got chickins ducks geese goats sheep cows its hard work but nice


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## PETERFC

*Hi All*

Hi All

Seems many of you are talking about various types of energy. 

Just what have you done and could you post about how you are getting on with whatever energy you have been able to generate.

Peter the 666 man


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## christopherdouglas

*Veg & Livestock*



cliveanthony said:


> we live in alcacer do sal we grow all our veg and got chickins ducks geese goats sheep cows its hard work but nice


Hello Clive,

Sorry this is a bit late! Not been in long enough to catch up on posts lately (I am away a bit, long distance trucking).

What you do sounds brill. We would be very interested in hearing how you got started, what sort of place you have, what energy you use, etc.

We hadn't thought of looking at anything as far south as you are. Come to that, we havn't seen much on the property sites for your area.

We have a million questions  , especially about keeping Sheep & Cows in Portugal. If you would be prepared to exchange lots of info I'll PM you with our email address.

Best Wishes,

Chris & Hellen


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## phredo

Living 'way over here in coastal northern California in a climate much like Portugal's northern coast, having visited Portugal only once for a week but liking it very much, I'm curious to know about how much rent would be for a rural farmhouse sort of place. We like to garden and grow about 1/5 of our own food, including greens, favas, and potatoes, and I would like to stay for a while in a place where, even if being a renter would make gardening difficult, at least we could be living around people who are living the way we would like.


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## shannon123

alasdair alexander said:


> We are also hoping to do the same thing. The problem for us is that we were born with nothing and litererally have nothing still. It would be interesting for us to find out how you get on and also to hear from people in Portugal who are living the good life.
> I know that for many people living in Portugal that a "self sufficient" life is something that they are still doing from way back and if you can speak a bit of Portugese then a visit to some rural areas would pay dividends for you. All you would need to do is get chatting to some friendly locals.
> Because a lot of property is literally in the middle of nowhere many are not connected to the utilities that in the UK we take for granted so there are bound to be lots of ingenious ideas about.
> As to the keeping of livestock and growing crops I dont know what the deal is but the weather is a lot better and the growing season will be extended making life a bit easier and giving you more options.
> Are you planning on living totally off the land or do you have an idea for extra income for luxuries? We are trying to think of ideas that will allow us to live the good life but allow us to have some sort of income at the same time.
> I would be inerested to hear back from you and find out how you get on. Sorry that I am not really any help but I am going to do some research and will let you know if anything useful comes up.
> hi im new to this site i just read your post and was wondering how you got on..regards jimmy.
> Alasdair Alexander


hi i am new to this site and was just wondering how you getin on?? jimmy


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## christopherdouglas

*Hello Mad Woman*

Hi M

It had never occoured to us to rent? Isuppose that's a good way to find your feet in Portugal but - We're not sure that we could put in all that hard work to a place that isn't ours. How long have you got a rental agreement for, is it renewable on a regular basis?

And, yes, if you have done it here then I'm sure that you can do it there.

As for the off-grid bit, yes we do plan to do that (have read everything there is to read on Wind, Solar, Rain, Composting toilets, etc) but we are still looking for a place that is on-grid, mainly to get around the 'full planning' requirements of an off-grid plot, but also with a view to selling power if we have a surplus.

And, as much as I would love to say that the Eco bit is to save the planet :clap2: , I can't because it isn't :confused2: . The whole venture is just to get us away from the mad house that has become of the U.K  . I would go home to Aus but I have kids in the U.K. now and Aus is a very long way away. Portugal is a lot nearer, has lovely people and, hasn't caught up with the bad bits of Europe yet - and probably won't in my lifetime 

And yes we will come and look at your bits, if you'll pardon the expression,

Regards,

Chris & Hellen


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## christopherdouglas

*Welcome*

Hello Jimmy (from Shannon?), welcome to the Forum.

There's lots of peeps on here who have either done it, or seen it being done, so ask anyone anything, the don't bite (Well, most of them don't  )

Not sure how 'alasdair alexander' are doing or wether they have been out to Portugal yet. I mailed them in April and havn't heard yet.

:focus:
As for Self Sufficiency in Portugal, we are out again later this month on another search for land, this time with more of an idea of what we are looking for. 

Looking at plots on the agents websites is one thing, the reality of the aspect is another. Nothing wrong with the adverts, it's just that when you read them it's through the old 'rose tinted glasses' (actually, Rosé in our case :eyebrows: ).

But, plot aside, we love the country (well, not the Algarve bit) and the people and remain convinced of what we plan to do. Just need to find the right place :confused2:

Regards,

Chris & Hellen


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