# North or South or both ??



## steuts (Nov 8, 2010)

Hi all, first thread so please bare with me 
I am considering a work offer which would mean moving to Cyprus for at least 12 months, really confused with all the research I have done. I get the understanding it is a bad thing to buy in the north, however can I rent in the north and work in the south ??? 
Thanks in advance for any replies :clap2:


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## tackle (Mar 9, 2010)

hi mate, im sure someone will correct me but when i researched my trip to the island last year there were issues regarding travelling across the border, including early closing of the border (1730ish) & when taking vehicles across possible probs depending on which side of the island their registered on..........i could be wrong but it doesnt sound feasible crossing every day for work.


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## Veronica (Apr 5, 2008)

If you are working in the South why would you want to rent in the North?
It dosn't make sense to be crossing the border every day.
Where are you going to be working? If it is Nicosia you wouldbe better off renting in one of the villages between Nicosia and Limassol where the rents would not be too high and you would have easy access to everything.


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## gloucester_geezer (May 5, 2008)

steuts said:


> Hi all, first thread so please bare with me
> I am considering a work offer which would mean moving to Cyprus for at least 12 months, really confused with all the research I have done. I get the understanding it is a bad thing to buy in the north, however can I rent in the north and work in the south ???
> Thanks in advance for any replies :clap2:


Hi,

I think it is fair to say that buying in the North is not the best idea at the moment but renting would be a very good idea. You would get a private villa with private pool for between £400 - £500 per month; much better than you would get in the south. As for the border, it stays open 24 hours a day.... there are hundreds of people that do exactly as you are suggesting, back and forth across the border daily. I think a look at what is available in both areas and comparison would soon make your mind up.

Paul


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## zin (Oct 28, 2010)

How exactly does it work in the North seeing as it's a place only recognised by Turkey? 

Seeing as it's a haven for criminals who can't get extradited what happens when you get robbed, mugged and beaten up? Can law even be enforced by a fake government when all the criminal has to do is cross the border to get away scot free? 

The mind boggles why anyone would risk living there regardless of how cheap things are. If the 'landlord' screws you over who exactly do you go to?


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## gloucester_geezer (May 5, 2008)

Do you mean in an example like this one?

O'Dwyer brutally beaten by property developers - Cyprus Property News Magazine


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## Veronica (Apr 5, 2008)

gloucester_geezer said:


> Do you mean in an example like this one?
> 
> O'Dwyer brutally beaten by property developers - Cyprus Property News Magazine


That is a very isolated case and you know well that it is. The case is still on going as the court have found the the developers guilty but of a lesser charge than the prosecution wanted so there is an appeal to increase the charges.
At least there are lawyers here who will fight for the rights of everyone including foreigners and the courts are taking notice.
There are crooks like these everywhere, even in the UK.


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## Veronica (Apr 5, 2008)

Incidntally I have met Yiannos Georgiades the lawyer who is respresenting Connor O'dwyer. He is a great bloke and determined that crooked developers will be brought to book. He tells us that the majority of crooked developers operate in the Larnaca area.


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## zin (Oct 28, 2010)

gloucester_geezer said:


> Do you mean in an example like this one?
> 
> O'Dwyer brutally beaten by property developers - Cyprus Property News Magazine


Yes, good example. So how would that work in TRNC? Would they just get away with it? Would it even go to court? Can lawyers even practise over there?


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## zin (Oct 28, 2010)

Here's another example if that helps: Soldiers guilty of `horrific' murder - News - The Independent


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## steuts (Nov 8, 2010)

Well, what can I say, I only asked a question about commuting and if it was feasible. I am not going to be drawn into South or North debate. I would not buying but renting. I am well aware of everything that happened. I simply want to live in the North and commute to work in South, just wanted to know if possible, so thank you Gloucester Geezer for replying to my question. If anyone else can offer their views on my original question I would be most grateful. If as Gloucester geezer says, hundreds do it everyday then it cant be that bad a thing to do surely???


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## Veronica (Apr 5, 2008)

zin said:


> Here's another example if that helps: Soldiers guilty of `horrific' murder - News - The Independent


Not sure what the relevance is there as they were British soldiers not Cypriots and it was 14 years ago. What it does show though is there is good and bad in all, even the boys in uniform we should be able to look up to and be proud of.


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## theresoon (Apr 11, 2008)

I'd like to add my two cents in this discussion. I live very close to the Ayios Dhometios crossing and have to drive by it at least twice a day. It usually looks pretty normal (just the usual rush hour traffic coming south in the morning and going north in the evening. Where it becomes really crazy is holiday seasons (Xmas, Ramadan, Bayram etc.) With the way traffic is in Nicosia I would suggest you are as close to work as possible. Then you have to think about medical coverage etc.


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## theresoon (Apr 11, 2008)

Oh and from the shopping habits of Turkish Cypriot friends in the north, you'll have to do all your shopping on the south and then drive back home. You can realize this is what people do if you go to Carrefour, Alpha Mega, Jumbo and Orphaninides in Ayios Pavlos. Don't ask me why this is happening but you can confirm it yourself if you check out the parking lots to these stores.


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## Veronica (Apr 5, 2008)

theresoon said:


> Oh and from the shopping habits of Turkish Cypriot friends in the north, you'll have to do all your shopping on the south and then drive back home. You can realize this is what people do if you go to Carrefour, Alpha Mega, Jumbo and Orphaninides in Ayios Pavlos. Don't ask me why this is happening but you can confirm it yourself if you check out the parking lots to these stores.


Some friends of ours have friends who live in the North. Whenever they go to visit them they have huge shopping list of stuff to take with them as apparently a lot of things are not available in the North. Also when their friends come South for a visit they go back with their car stacked to the gunnels of things they have bought down here.


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## shirl3009 (Nov 8, 2010)

steuts said:


> Well, what can I say, I only asked a question about commuting and if it was feasible. I am not going to be drawn into South or North debate. I would not buying but renting. I am well aware of everything that happened. I simply want to live in the North and commute to work in South, just wanted to know if possible, so thank you Gloucester Geezer for replying to my question. If anyone else can offer their views on my original question I would be most grateful. If as Gloucester geezer says, hundreds do it everyday then it cant be that bad a thing to do surely???


I totally agree with what Gloucester Geezer has said, I lived in the North for 2 years and often crossed to the South without any problems at all. It was 24 hr crossing then and I dont think that has changed. I know people who lived in the North and worked in the South, also children who lived in the North and did their schooling in the South - All of them crossing every day without any problems. .... rental wise you do get more for your money in the North.

Just to touch on the shopping issue - Its a case of choice not a necessity, its a small island and therefore if you fancy a trip South then you can. No different to living in Leeds and going over the Pennines to shop at the Trafford Centre or down to London. All the everyday items are there in the North, lots of choice and many UK familiar brands. If you want a variety in clothes, change of scenery etc then go South. 

Both sides of the island have alot of plus points - both have got a few minus points..... Ultimately its all down to your own personal choice.


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## steuts (Nov 8, 2010)

Thank you Shirl3009, still deciding what to do but at least yourself and GloucsterGeezer have given both sides which is all i asked for.


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## tackle (Mar 9, 2010)

blimey, i didnt realise i had got the info quite so wrong.
in my defence i never actually visited the border when i was on the island & was actually quoting info gleaned from a recent & usually well respected travel publication.


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## gloucester_geezer (May 5, 2008)

Hi Tackle,
You are not alone in not knowing the facts; I have been into travel agents in England that have told me that the border is still closed!! Take a trip across next time you are on the island, see it for yourself. The North is a great place to visit, as is the South of course.


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## Veronica (Apr 5, 2008)

gloucester_geezer said:


> Hi Tackle,
> You are not alone in not knowing the facts; I have been into travel agents in England that have told me that the border is still closed!! Take a trip across next time you are on the island, see it for yourself. The North is a great place to visit, as is the South of course.


I agree that the North is a great place to visit. Some spectacular scenery, beautiful coastlines, fabulous mountain ranges. We occasionally go across for a long weekend.
Before the green line came into being I lived in Limassol and Kyrenia was one of my favourite places to go to. Unfortunately like everywhere (including the South) it is no longer quite the lovely place of my memories. Still nice to visit though.


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## theresoon (Apr 11, 2008)

tackle said:


> blimey, i didnt realise i had got the info quite so wrong.
> in my defence i never actually visited the border when i was on the island & was actually quoting info gleaned from a recent & usually well respected travel publication.


it's 24 7.


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## loobielou (Apr 21, 2010)

It amazes me why anyone in their right mind would consider living in the North. It is the most filthiest and backwards place I have ever been. Dont get me started on the fact that the land belongs to cyprus and has been WRONGFULLY taken over by the most corrupt, violent species known to man. The fact that any foreigner would wish to live there shows that they condone what happened in 1974 which shows that all they really care aboit is saving a few quid!

REMEMBER TURKEY INVADED CYPRUS in 1974. The initial number of missing persons was 1619 including non-combatants, women and small children. On the face of evidence, all these people disappeared during or after the Turkish invasion in the areas captured by the Turkish troops. There is corroborating evidence from eye witnesses and international Organisations that many of these persons had been arrested by the Turkish invasion forces or armed Turkish Cypriot groups and either held for a period of time in Turkish prisons before been MURDERED or MURDERED as they tried to escape. To date there has not been a resolution to the situation as the North are not willing to cooperate..hence why they are unable to get in the EU!

Now please tell me why anyone would wish to live in the North!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## gloucester_geezer (May 5, 2008)

loobielou said:


> It amazes me why anyone in their right mind would consider living in the North. It is the most filthiest and backwards place I have ever been. Dont get me started on the fact that the land belongs to cyprus and has been WRONGFULLY taken over by the most corrupt, violent species known to man. The fact that any foreigner would wish to live there shows that they condone what happened in 1974 which shows that all they really care aboit is saving a few quid!
> 
> REMEMBER TURKEY INVADED CYPRUS in 1974. The initial number of missing persons was 1619 including non-combatants, women and small children. On the face of evidence, all these people disappeared during or after the Turkish invasion in the areas captured by the Turkish troops. There is corroborating evidence from eye witnesses and international Organisations that many of these persons had been arrested by the Turkish invasion forces or armed Turkish Cypriot groups and either held for a period of time in Turkish prisons before been MURDERED or MURDERED as they tried to escape. To date there has not been a resolution to the situation as the North are not willing to cooperate..hence why they are unable to get in the EU!
> 
> Now please tell me why anyone would wish to live in the North!!!!!!!!!!!!


Well, what can I say.... this reply shows the one-sided viewpoint, which is probably held by both sides in this long running situation, that stops there being any real chance of a resolution on the island. To have a loved one missing from back then must have been, and still be, horrendous, and that is a very sad aspect to this division.

It is widely known that the troubles started back in 1963 with EOKA terrorists killing people, including the British Forces, and it was only after 11 years of 'troubles' that Turkey decided to step in and put a stop to the killing that was being carried out by both sides. It certainly did stop it and even after all this time I don't think that the 2 sides can reach an agreement; perhaps it is better that way. I hope it all ends up like England and Wales, 2 different areas but no real border and each running things their own way.

The key in all this should be the word 'Cypriot'.... not Turk. The people of the island, the Cypriots, lost their lands from both sides of the border. Paphos had a large Turkish Cypriot element and there will be lots of places built on what was TC land before 1974, and the same is true the other way around too. When you look in as a neutral, and that is what I am, then it can clearly be seen that there are 2 sides to this coin; the blame does not fall onto 1 side.

I sincerely hope that a resolution can be reached so that future generations won't grow up with the border being a constant reminder of the problem and that eventually it can fade into memory. I am not too optomistic about that though...


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## zeeb0 (Oct 29, 2010)

Dude the UK and US have to take some responsibility also.. the UK armed and encouraged each side to violence in an effort to maintain soverignty (divide and conquer).. infact the green line was invented by the british. Also the then secetary of state in the US kissenger actually agreed the Turks invasion plan and the current halt line way in advance.. right down to the detail of lymbia etc.. the only overshot was famagusta which was evacuated by the greek cypriots when the turks didn't intend to take it. 

The problem is now the migrant population that turkey has illegally seeded on the island, not the original turkish cypriots... what do you do with a second generation turkish family that were settled on the islan in the 70s? send them home? where is that?


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## gloucester_geezer (May 5, 2008)

zeeb0 said:


> Dude the UK and US have to take some responsibility also.. the UK armed and encouraged each side to violence in an effort to maintain soverignty (divide and conquer).. infact the green line was invented by the british. Also the then secetary of state in the US kissenger actually agreed the Turks invasion plan and the current halt line way in advance.. right down to the detail of lymbia etc.. the only overshot was famagusta which was evacuated by the greek cypriots when the turks didn't intend to take it.
> 
> The problem is now the migrant population that turkey has illegally seeded on the island, not the original turkish cypriots... what do you do with a second generation turkish family that were settled on the islan in the 70s? send them home? where is that?




I agree totally.... and we have the same thing in England too regarding 2nd and 3rd generation families. I have a friend, the family are Pakistani, but he was born in England.. he said one day to me that when people say he should 'go home', where is that, he is already there!!

As for blame in Cyprus, as you say it is not a clear cut or one-sided thing and that was all I was trying to say above... it is certainly not just a case of the Turkish Army invading or they would have taken the whole island at the time. There are plenty of people, Brits, living on the South side but whenever a comment like this one comes up they just stay quiet; I am not against the South at all.. I lived there for 6 years and 2 of my 3 sons were born there, I just try to see it from a balanced viewpoint which is the only way it can ever be discussed and/or moved on from.


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## kimonas (Jul 19, 2008)

I find this thread interesting as it does illustrate the polarisation of history and the general lack of historical understanding on the island and more broadly. I think Gloucester Geezer has hit the nail on the head with his comments about the typical received history which steroetypes the barbaric rapacious Turk and the innocent refugee Greek Cypriots with inetrmeddling dastardly Brits and Americans lurking in the sidelines. It is an enormously complex history - and one most professional historians have trouble getting to grips with - but the biggest hurdle to understanding has to be the propagandised official accounts and the refusal of Cypriot Authorities to allow history to be taught properly in schools. We therefore end up with mythistoriography which gives us a Turkish invasion of 1974 (instead of the reality of a Greek invasion, coup de'tat and general slaughter of EOKA B) and the belief that all was harmony and peace between the Greek and Turkish Cypriots prior to the intervention of Turkey (when the reality was internecine warfare, enclaves and destruction of cultural heritage - which I agree other coldwar powers had an interest in stirring up). Of course any right minded person would have to empathise with all innocent families of whatever cultural background that were caught up in the violence and bloodshed of the Cyprus problem. The unfortunate irony is that many of the original Turkish Cypriots who were settled in the Ottoman province of Cyprus following the overthrow of the Venetians in 1571 were Janissaries (new troops) essentially drawn from non-muslim subjects of the Ottoman Empire, and converted to islam - and most of these people were recruited very young and were largely born into ethnically Greek families. 

To get back to the original post - the bitterness surrounding the Cyprus problem is sometimes so overwhelming that many lose sight of the bigger European project - I suppose the only downside to living in the north and working in the south would be the uncertainty that political movements could be rapid and buffer zones could be closed as quickly as they opened. There are in short no guarantees when living in what is essentially a paraiah state (albeit a dreadfully misunderstood one, in my opinion).


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## JonandGaynor (Jun 8, 2009)

Agree 100% with Loobielou's post. I hear are a lot of comments regarding those that decide to reside in the north with the most polite and printable being carpet baggers - those that try and make a profit from others misfortune.
The Oram's got their just desserts for trying it and I would have thought anyone considering living in the north would have learnt from that lesson and no doubt there will be plenty more of those cases to come.
Why should the Greek Cypriots accept the turkish occupied north and their suggest of power sharing, they are the ones who had members of their families killed and land stolen. Of my Cypriot friends and those who I have met there isn't one who doesn't claim to have had family suffer one way or another at the hands of the Turks and will never agree to anything less than Turkish withdrawl from Cyprus.


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## kimonas (Jul 19, 2008)

JonandGaynor said:


> Agree 100% with Loobielou's post. I hear are a lot of comments regarding those that decide to reside in the north with the most polite and printable being carpet baggers - those that try and make a profit from others misfortune.
> The Oram's got their just desserts for trying it and I would have thought anyone considering living in the north would have learnt from that lesson and no doubt there will be plenty more of those cases to come.
> Why should the Greek Cypriots accept the turkish occupied north and their suggest of power sharing, they are the ones who had members of their families killed and land stolen. Of my Cypriot friends and those who I have met there isn't one who doesn't claim to have had family suffer one way or another at the hands of the Turks and will never agree to anything less than Turkish withdrawl from Cyprus.


But this thread started out as an enquiry about living in the north but working in the south - many forum members have rightly observed that private investments in the north are very risky because of the property rights issue, but to start lobbing around virtually racist observations about Turks being a different species and other historical nonsense does not really help the original enquirer. My family too suffered in 1974 and lost land and property, but are intelligent enough to accept that Greece's assassination attempt of Makarios in 1974 and the invasion that it sparked was the result of tensions that had been boiling for years. In fact the Turkish intervention saved many Greek Cypriot necks as Eoka B were bent on slaughtering anyone who got in their way and the invasion resulted in the collapse of the Greek Junta. Genocide was attempted on both sides as the recent mass graves of Turkish Cypriots in the south and UN reports testify. At the end of the day there was a war and the Greek Cypriots were soundly thrashed. As Zeebo pointed out, the battle plan was agreed well before during the extreme anti Turkish Cypriot violence of the 1960s when the capital was divided and the UN peacekeeping force almost managed to prevent the Greek Cypriots from decimating the Turkish Cypriots who had withdrawn into enclaves. The non-recognition of the North by the rest of the world was a political hangover from the coldwar, but European money and investment is pouring into the north at an unprecedented rate - I disagree with LoubieLou that it is a dirty, backward, miserable place - it strugglesd against the odds and against world opinion to stay afloat backed as it is by Turkey. There is no doubt that the Turkification of the North has resulted in cultural devastation and the flowering of the criminal underworld, but conditions were ripe for that. Now it is in the interests of the EU to admit Turkey, and it probably will once the Cyprus problem has been 'solved' and that resolution will (as already agreed in outline many years ago) in all liklihood be a federal state solution of mutual recognition of two cantons within one Republic with each region being pretty autonomous. Property issues are likely to be settled by compensation. Cyprus joined the EU club and now it has to play by the rules. In the meantime, and again to get back to the original question, it is probably safest to settle (live and work) in either one state or another until things settle down.


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## zin (Oct 28, 2010)

> My family too suffered in 1974 and lost land and property, but are intelligent enough to accept that Greece's assassination attempt of Makarios in 1974 and the invasion that it sparked was the result of tensions that had been boiling for years. In fact the Turkish intervention saved many Greek Cypriot necks as Eoka B were bent on slaughtering anyone who got in their way and the invasion resulted in the collapse of the Greek Junta.


This. 

However what happened next and I find reading the wiki article (and yes I appreciate the citation issues around wikipedia) as a good read. 

Cyprus dispute - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



> At the second Geneva Conference on 9 August, Turkey pressed for a federal solution to the problem against stiffening Greek resistance. Whilst Turkish Cypriots wanted a bi-zonal federation, Turkey, under American advice, submitted a cantonal plan involving separation of Turkish-Cypriot areas from one another. For security reasons Turkish-Cypriots did not favour cantons. Each plan embraced about thirty-four per cent of the territory. These plans were presented to the conference on 13 August by the Turkish Foreign Minister, Turan Güneş. Clerides wanted thirty-six to forty-eight hours to consider the plans, but Güneş demanded an immediate response. This was regarded as unreasonable by the Greeks, the British and the Americans who were in close consultation. Nevertheless, the next day, the Turkish forces extended their control to some 36 per cent of the island.


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## zin (Oct 28, 2010)

loobielou said:


> The fact that any foreigner would wish to live there shows that they condone what happened in 1974 *which shows that all they really care aboit is saving a few quid!*


Nail on head regardless of whether they condone it or not in my very humble opinion. 

How can anyone relate with someone who was there when they lost family, property, businesses and had to start from scratch elsewhere due to war?


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## tackle (Mar 9, 2010)

guys (& ladies), this is obviously a very emotive subject, one that people like myself who have only visited the island as a tourist cannot begin to comprehend but i feel we have gone way off topic & its getting a bit too heavy & personal.........surely the only replies needed are those in relation to steuts original post, i'd hate to see people falling out here when the atmosphere conveyed is usually one of a big helpful happy family of likeminded people who share a love of a beautiful island, whether it be the north or the south.


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## zeeb0 (Oct 29, 2010)

tackle - I appreciate your efforts to pacify things on here but i think it is vitally important to the original poster to take this into account. Although its all ancient history your colleagues in the south with give you hell if you live in the north! 

I got almost shouted at by a dude because i visited the north... along the lines of " the money you give to those b****ds buys bullets to kill our families".. now i know its dramatic and not true but you quality of life will suffer if you have face this all the time.. your colleagues will be even less accepting of you (they are bad anyway) and your neighbors in the north might not be too happy either.. I dont give shoot what people think but after a few years i can imaging it getting annoying!


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## tackle (Mar 9, 2010)

hi zeebo, i agree that relevant information should be given, especially if one would be treated like some kind of pariah just because of where they choose to live, i just felt it was turning in to some kind of slanging match as to who was to blame.
im sure there are many wonderful tc's in the north as there are gc's in the south, maybe if people feel there is information personal to them that they feel the original poster should know then they could pm it or post links to historical info rather than mudslinging................in the words of the song "lets give peace a chance".


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