# Driving licence fine



## helenquart (Oct 26, 2013)

My friend, who has lived and worked here for 2 years, was stopped and fined 500 euros for not having a Spanish licence. She protested and was told that the law has changed ( in January) and every one should have a Spanish licence.

What is the law now?


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## gus-lopez (Jan 4, 2010)

If you have a photo card that is in date then there is no requirement to change until the photo expiry date.

Dirección General de Tráfico : Trámites y Multas: JEFATURA VIRTUAL : Tu permiso de conducción : Canje de permisos


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

gus-lopez said:


> If you have a photo card that is in date then there is no requirement to change until the photo expiry date.
> 
> Dirección General de Tráfico : Trámites y Multas: JEFATURA VIRTUAL : Tu permiso de conducción : Canje de permisos


however - if it's an old paper one (is that at all likely  ) then yes, it would have to be changed


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## 90199 (Mar 21, 2010)

I have just renewed my U.K. driving licence, I do not need a Spanish one.


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

Hepa said:


> I have just renewed my U.K. driving licence, I do not need a Spanish one.


Naughty you - I thought you were resident here. If so, then you must have given a false address in UK, surely.


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## 90199 (Mar 21, 2010)

snikpoh said:


> Naughty you - I thought you were resident here. If so, then you must have given a false address in UK, surely.


I had to return to the land of my birth, to sort out some problems and whilst I was residing there I renewed the licence.


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## VFR (Dec 23, 2009)

I mulled this licence issue change over quite a spell back & could not find any reason *Not to Change* Should I ever return to the UK I will simply swap it back.

It keeps the local plod happy (I guess)
It shows I am trying (?)
Renewing is simple & cheap (when the time comes)
Can be used as ID (ish)
Can avoid a fine (like the OP) should the GC have had a bad day.

Has to be a Win Win does it not ?.


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## Tapas (Jul 13, 2012)

What can be the reason for not to swap? 

Bureocracy? Money? How much does it cost?


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## VFR (Dec 23, 2009)

Tapas said:


> What can be the reason for not to swap?
> 
> Bureocracy? Money? How much does it cost?


Well my HGV was due for renewal (medical that is) and not long after (within a year) the photo would have needed to be renewed, cost in the UK of about £120.
Trip needed to the UK (but may have been going anyway) and of course not really legal.

Visited my local Gestor/Licence Medical centre & the cost all in was about 70eu, no hassle, a signature here & there, wait a couple of weeks and a new licence through the post.

It could of course not be the same where you live ?, such is life & Spain.


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## gus-lopez (Jan 4, 2010)

The problem with renewing a UK licence after you have become a resident of another country is that it is not legal . You can use the UK icence until expiry when you have to change to the country you are resident in. 
If an eagle-eyed GC spots it during a routine stop, as happened yesterday to a man on a local forum here , you can have the book thrown at you.
It is a 500€ fine for that offence alone. Then there is also the possibility that they could also charge you with incorrect/no licence as technically you haven't got one. Then there's the question of fraud, if done knowingly, & they're on a mission.


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## CapnBilly (Jun 7, 2011)

gus-lopez said:


> The problem with renewing a UK licence after you have become a resident of another country is that it is not legal . You can use the UK icence until expiry when you have to change to the country you are resident in. If an eagle-eyed GC spots it during a routine stop, as happened yesterday to a man on a local forum here , you can have the book thrown at you. It is a 500&#128; fine for that offence alone. Then there is also the possibility that they could also charge you with incorrect/no licence as technically you haven't got one. Then there's the question of fraud, if done knowingly, & they're on a mission.


I'm pretty certain your insurance would be invalid as well.


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## gus-lopez (Jan 4, 2010)

Certainly would if deemed to have 'no/incorrect licence'.


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## 90199 (Mar 21, 2010)

Like I have posted before, I do not need a Spanish driving licence.


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## Aron (Apr 30, 2013)

snikpoh said:


> Naughty you - I thought you were resident here. If so, then you must have given a false address in UK, surely.


You can be resident in Spain and still have an address in the UK. Both my neighbours are residents but have houses in the UK.


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## Aron (Apr 30, 2013)

My wife and I change to Spanish driving licences in case we had our British licence lost or stolen. Getting that replaced would be very difficult. The DVLC will send you a provisional to allow you to drive, but I believe it is for UK use only.


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## whitenoiz (Sep 18, 2012)

Bit of Thread drift but...
A note for all needing to do an in-person licence renewal in the UK... As of Dec 13th all regional DVLA offices will close permanently. It will no longer be possible to present yourself at a DVLA office to sort out problems relating to licences or vehicle ownership or taxation queries.
When I tried to do a UK licence renewal online, the IP address recognition system kicked in and would not allow me to do so. 
Be advised also that if you can access the online system for renewals, a lot more personal information including valid checkable UK addresses over the previous three years is required unlike the currently available form available from UK Post Offices, for which you must be able to produce a valid UK address; this is the address to which the renewed licence will be sent. DVLA will not send a UK licence to an address outside the UK.

This information was correct as of three months ago.


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## CapnBilly (Jun 7, 2011)

For the avoidance of any doubt, if you are normally resident in a country for 185 days or more in a calendar year, that is where you must renew your licence.


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## Aron (Apr 30, 2013)

CapnBilly said:


> For the avoidance of any doubt, if you are normally resident in a country for 185 days or more in a calendar year, that is where you must renew your licence.


Irrespective of that posting, I think it should be mandatory to change your licence to the country you reside in. There will be occasions where that won't apply, but in the main I agree with that. We came to Spain to integrate into the community, changing our licences was part of that process, though we did drag our feet a bit, so to speak.


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

Aron said:


> You can be resident in Spain and still have an address in the UK. Both my neighbours are residents but have houses in the UK.


I agree but this is irrelevant because the rules are 'where you normally reside'.


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## Aron (Apr 30, 2013)

snikpoh said:


> I agree but this is irrelevant because the rules are 'where you normally reside'.


My neighbours normally reside in the UK and Spain. Deciding which is difficult as it may be longer in either country as each year is different. They pay their taxes in the UK. I don't think either country is going to be too concerned where they renew their licences.


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## 90199 (Mar 21, 2010)

In my case I can see no valid reason for spending money to change a U.K. licence to a Spanish one.


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## Aron (Apr 30, 2013)

Hepa said:


> In my case I can see no valid reason for spending money to change a U.K. licence to a Spanish one.


That's your prerogative, but I believe if you have been resident in Spain for more than two years, you now need to take a medical. I only know that point from reading an Internet posting and having been stopped by the police for the same offence. Has anyone else heard about that law coming into force.


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## CapnBilly (Jun 7, 2011)

Aron said:


> That's your prerogative, but I believe if you have been resident in Spain for more than two years, you now need to take a medical. I only know that point from reading an Internet posting and having been stopped by the police for the same offence. Has anyone else heard about that law coming into force.


If you retain your UK licence, you have to take a medical when you become normally resident, which I have already posted is 185 days


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## CapnBilly (Jun 7, 2011)

Aron said:


> My neighbours normally reside in the UK and Spain. Deciding which is difficult as it may be longer in either country as each year is different. They pay their taxes in the UK. I don't think either country is going to be too concerned where they renew their licences.


Under those circumstances, when your licence is due for renewal, then I would make sure I was resident (and had proof), that I was a UK resident for that year.

It doesn't matter what the countries think, its EU law, which means, as Gus posted, if you do not follow it correctly, then your licence is invalid, as well as your insurance. To be honest, if you get stopped, you'll probably get away with it, BUT, if you have an accident, then that's a different story.


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## extranjero (Nov 16, 2012)

See Brian Dellers( Motoring in Spain) website;I believe there is a letter in Spanish you can down load to show the CG, which says that the law says you are allowed to use your UK licence till it runs out. Be aware of when the photo bit has to be renewed, though.
Make sure you have the medicals in Spain that the locals are obliged to have and carry it with you, otherwise your licence will be invalid.
However if you live here, it's so much easier to just change it for a Spanish one!


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## Aron (Apr 30, 2013)

CapnBilly said:


> If you retain your UK licence, you have to take a medical when you become normally resident, which I have already posted is 185 days


That is not what is written on my denuncia I received from the police. It states that I have resided in Spain for two years, after which time I should have had a medical. That is the translation which I did understand on the denuncia. That was two years ago. It was at a time I was just about to change to a Spanish licence. My wife did hers first, then when she got her new licence, I was going to do mine. The police accepted that and I never heard anymore.

Idid have the medical soon as I received the denuncia


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

If you retain a UK licence and are resident in Spain, then you are required to have a medical just as a Spanish national with a Spanish licence would - this is fact.


CapnBilly - why do you keep mentioning 185 days? 
The rules are six months which is often referred to as 183 days (or more than 182 days). To my knowledge although I'm being very pedantic, 185 days is incorrect.


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## VFR (Dec 23, 2009)

snikpoh said:


> If you retain a UK licence and are resident in Spain, then you are required to have a medical just as a Spanish national with a Spanish licence would - this is fact.
> 
> 
> CapnBilly - why do you keep mentioning 185 days?
> The rules are six months which is often referred to as 183 days (or more than 182 days). To my knowledge although I'm being very pedantic, 185 days is incorrect.


+ 2 days driving to get here (?)


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## CapnBilly (Jun 7, 2011)

snikpoh said:


> If you retain a UK licence and are resident in Spain, then you are required to have a medical just as a Spanish national with a Spanish licence would - this is fact. CapnBilly - why do you keep mentioning 185 days? The rules are six months which is often referred to as 183 days (or more than 182 days). To my knowledge although I'm being very pedantic, 185 days is incorrect.


Because thats what it says in the law. I haven't made it up. Its also the same as is stated in the EU Directive. This is a translation from the Spanish law.. Its one of only 2 definitions of residence in spanish law, the other, of course, being fiscal residence.

"For the purposes of the application of this regulation the term 'normal residence' means the place where a person usually lives, that is, for at least one hundred eighty-five days each calendar year, because of personal and occupational ties, or, in the case of a person with no occupational ties, because of personal ties which show close links between that person and the place where he is living."


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## CapnBilly (Jun 7, 2011)

Aron said:


> That is not what is written on my denuncia I received from the police. It states that I have resided in Spain for two years, after which time I should have had a medical. That is the translation which I did understand on the denuncia. That was two years ago. It was at a time I was just about to change to a Spanish licence. My wife did hers first, then when she got her new licence, I was going to do mine. The police accepted that and I never heard anymore. Idid have the medical soon as I received the denuncia


 Well, that just goes to prove , that they have no idea of what the law actually says. I am only quoting from the law, and it does not say after 2 years, it says after 'normal residence" (see above). The previous law used to say after 4 years of residence, but, of course, that was changed in 2009


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## gus-lopez (Jan 4, 2010)

CapnBilly said:


> Well, that just goes to prove , that they have no idea of what the law actually says. I am only quoting from the law, and it does not say after 2 years, it says after 'normal residence" (see above). The previous law used to say after 4 years of residence, but, of course, that was changed in 2009


Yes but 2 years ago & even up until early this year that is what was stated on the DGT website. 
When the D/licence directive , which had to be enacted by all eu Countries by January 2013, came into force that phrase disappeared & you are allowed to use your home country EU photocard licences until they expire. Then you must change to country of residence.

I think that the directive gave them many years to all get into line. The Germans have had to put an expiry date on new licences & anyone with the old type " valid until you die" is now illegal if a registered foreign resident along with the old type Norwegian " valid until 100" ?? Can't remember what they've reduced it to ?

Anyone who goes between the UK & Spain won't have a probelm in the UK but if registered as resident foreigner in Spain, they'll fall foul of needing to change.


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## Aron (Apr 30, 2013)

I don't know the law, but I do know someone with a UK licence who was stopped for drink driving. They received a €600 fine. If a Spaniard is stopped for the same offence he will lose his or her licence. If this is common place and I don't know if it is, could that be an argument that all residents switch to a Spanish licence.


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## gus-lopez (Jan 4, 2010)

The drink/drive penalties are quite complicated but for someone barely over the limit a fine of 600€ without the customary 6points/3 month ban is possible. 
additionally just because they have a UK licence doesn't mean they've got away with it as the DGT/GC can create a 'virtual' spanish licence based on the UK one & if stopped again the full details will come up when the UK details are input.


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## gus-lopez (Jan 4, 2010)

Sorry ,forgot to put link in ! 
Driving Licence Penalty Points - AngloINFO Balearics, in Mallorca, Menorca and Ibiza (Spain)


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## Aron (Apr 30, 2013)

gus-lopez said:


> The drink/drive penalties are quite complicated but for someone barely over the limit a fine of 600€ without the customary 6points/3 month ban is possible.
> additionally just because they have a UK licence doesn't mean they've got away with it as the DGT/GC can create a 'virtual' spanish licence based on the UK one & if stopped again the full details will come up when the UK details are input.


I have a local friend who was late for work. She was doing 110kph in a 60kph limit. She got stopped in a radar trap and fined € 500. She was annoyed, but if she had a Spanish licence, then she would have lost points. Surely that is unfair on Spanish drivers or anyone with a Spanish licence.


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## 90199 (Mar 21, 2010)

Aron said:


> I have a local friend who was late for work. She was doing 110kph in a 60kph limit. She got stopped in a radar trap and fined € 500. She was annoyed, but if she had a Spanish licence, then she would have lost points. Surely that is unfair on Spanish drivers or anyone with a Spanish licence.


It works both ways, persons with Spanish licences do not get points if caught in other European countries. Fair or unfair, that is the law of Europe, you have to live with it.


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## NickZ (Jun 26, 2009)

That's not true.

You get local points. But you still get points. They can ban you from driving in the local country. They can't ban you outside of the country.


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## Aron (Apr 30, 2013)

NickZ said:


> That's not true.
> 
> You get local points. But you still get points. They can ban you from driving in the local country. They can't ban you outside of the country.


Foreign drivers have been banned in the UK following a drink drive conviction, but only in the UK. I have never known that to happen in a Spain.


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## CapnBilly (Jun 7, 2011)

NickZ said:


> That's not true.
> 
> You get local points. But you still get points. They can ban you from driving in the local country. They can't ban you outside of the country.


They can make you exchange your licence if they want to ban you.


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## gus-lopez (Jan 4, 2010)

Aron said:


> I have a local friend who was late for work. She was doing 110kph in a 60kph limit. She got stopped in a radar trap and fined € 500. She was annoyed, but if she had a Spanish licence, then she would have lost points. Surely that is unfair on Spanish drivers or anyone with a Spanish licence.


She'll never know whether she has been given points until she is either pulled again, or swops licence to find she's already lost points. They don't bother telling foreign licence holders they create a 'virtual licence'.


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