# Taxes / Working remotely on a long term visa



## morganm00

I know this question has been asked in different ways but I haven't seen something close enough to what I'm trying to accomplish.

My wife and I are US Citizens looking to spend 6 months (Sep-Feb) in Italy. My wife is not employed in the US. She is looking to attend a language school in Rome on a student visa through which I know she also can work part-time. That's the easy part.

I, on the other hand, am looking at either also having a student visa or was told by my local consulate that an elective residence visa would be an option if I pay for our housing entirely in advance and can show adequate funds. I was also told by the consulate that working remotely would be available to me with an ER visa.

The problem I have is with my US employer (who has no presence in Italy). Upon asking them about doing this (I have worked remotely for 10 years now), I was told that they would be unable to give me permission because they do not have information on the tax implications of doing this. They have an international tax consultancy firm available for this types of questions, but have been told that it would cost $2000 to simply request a quote on the cost of providing the tax implications of my working for 6 months abroad. As a result, they are unwilling to proceed.

Can anyone advise me or recommend options to address this? I've googled my fingers to the bone and it seems that I would need to be a resident for 183 days in a fiscal year to be in a situation where I would owe taxes in Italy. I could be completely wrong in that assumption though. Has anyone done something like this? 

Any information would be most appreciated.

Thanks.
-mike


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## BBCWatcher

I think you've reached a hard stop because your employer is not willing to have you work remotely from Italy. Are you planning to take a leave of absence or resign from that employer?

I don't think you received correct information about what you can do with an Elective Residency visa, but regardless the ER visa is for residence intentions of over one year. If your intention is to reside in Italy for one year or less, then that particular visa is not available. You'd have to find some other visa such as a student visa, with its own set of restrictions.


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## morganm00

Well, my employer has told me that they are unable to locate information that would help them to understand corporate and individual tax obligations. They did seem open to my being able to locate the information they require to ensure they are meeting their tax obligations provided the sources are official. I'm just not sure of the best way to go about doing that or if it is a hopeless cause overall.

I hadn't planned to take a leave of absence from my employer as I do have bills to pay in the US.

I had planned to be prepared for a student visa in the event that the opinion of the person with whom I interview does not match that of the person who suggested that an ER visa would be an option. My intention is to simply be in Italy for 6 months, for the most part taking classes at a language school. My preference toward an ER visa would be greater flexibility with my time, but if it's not an option, then a student visa would be the goal, but then I don't know if working remotely is legal, as I was told that working remote would be legal on an ER visa.


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## BBCWatcher

I think you've got at least three serious hurdles:

1. Your employer evidently doesn't want to assume _their_ potential corporate liability for your working in Italy, never mind yours. That's quite a roadblock if you're not willing to leave your employer at this point in time.

2. To get an ER visa you must demonstrate your intention to reside in Italy for over one year. I think you got bad information about your ability to work on an ER visa.

3. To get a student visa you need to enroll in a degree program. Language school doesn't seem to cut it any more (and hasn't for several years). Moreover, even if you and/or your wife manage to get a student visa the work options are limited to part-time (20 hours or less per week) in something at least plausibly related to the course of study, e.g. working for the university as a research assistant. Not arbitrary work for an offshore company.

That said, if you and your wife surprise me and somehow figure out a legal way around these roadblocks, please let us all know what the secret is!


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## NickZ

The simple part is you wouldn't be in Italy long enough to be classed an Italian resident.

You have four months in one year and two in the next.

So your tax liabilities would be only on what you earned by working in Italy

You could check the social security treaty between the two countries to see what payroll taxes might apply but my limited memory tells me this is an area you could choose to remain an US payer.

I guess it's possible for your employer to worry about you being labeled a permanent work place but if you are working remotely and not conducting business with Italian customers this seems a stretch.

I've no idea but doesn't the IRS give opinions ? If they do that would satisfy your employer. Honestly it would be the only safe thing for your employer to accept


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## BBCWatcher

NickZ said:


> You have four months in one year and two in the next.


Hypothetically perhaps, but what visa would allow a six month stay in these circumstances? Would that type of visa allow arbitrary work in Italy?



> I've no idea but doesn't the IRS give opinions ? If they do that would satisfy your employer.


Unlikely. First of all, the employer would also want to know what the _Italian_ tax agency's (Agenzia delle Entrate's) views are. Second, many employers simply don't want to take the risk(s) and are unlikely to be convinced otherwise. There are genuine risks for employers. I can understand their point of view; it's quite common.


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## accbgb

I agree on two points:

1. Student visas are granted for university-level degree programs. You can't get a student visa for "Learn to cook like an Italian" courses or basic language courses. In fact, visas for language study are granted only for advanced study and require the student demonstrate significant conversational Italian skills as part of the visa qualification process.

2. ER visas do not permit paid work of any kind, not even remote work for a non-Italian employer. Sure, you might be able to get away with doing so if you keep your mouth shut, but if you get caught there will be hell to pay.

And, an additional point concerning ER visas: you will need to show that you have adequate resources to remain in Italy without becoming a burden to the state. That means passive income (social security, pension, investment income, etc) or sufficient savings to guarantee approximately €30,000 - €35,000 per year per person. Plus pre-paid health insurance, plus other requirements.

The fact of the matter is, it is not easy for a US citizen to spend more than 90 days out of any 180 day period in Italy, just as it is very difficult for an Italian citizen to spend extended periods of time in the US.

Oh, and that 90 day tourist visa waiver? No, you cannot legally work (remotely or not) while in Italy.


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## NickZ

BBCWatcher said:


> Hypothetically perhaps, but what visa would allow a six month stay in these circumstances? Would that type of visa allow arbitrary work in Italy?
> 
> 
> Unlikely. First of all, the employer would also want to know what the _Italian_ tax agency's (Agenzia delle Entrate's) views are. Second, many employers simply don't want to take the risk(s) and are unlikely to be convinced otherwise. There are genuine risks for employers. I can understand their point of view; it's quite common.


If the consulate is willing to give them a visa I'm not going to worry about it. No point arguing it isn't possible if they offer it.

It seems to be the employer is willing to take an opinion from a legal firm. That would be worth less then an opinion from the IRS


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## Bevdeforges

Oh, the IRS will indeed give you a definitive ruling in your specific case - it's called a "Private Letter Ruling." But it is not at all free for the employer or person requesting it and usually requires some legal bills to properly sum up the specifics of the case in a manner that the IRS can and will issue a ruling. These things can also take months to be issued.

https://www.irs.gov/Help-&-Resource...venue-Procedures,-Regulations,-Letter-Rulings
Cheers,
Bev


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