# BI bans 2 Australians for illegally working in PH



## Hey_Joe (Sep 13, 2016)

2020 Oct 02
http://www.immigration.gov.ph/images/News/2020_Yr/10_Oct/2020Oct02_Press.pdf


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## greenstreak1946 (May 28, 2017)

I am glad to see the Philippines do this. If the USA did this we wouldn't have 12 million illegals here in this country and most are working illegal. 

art


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## bigpearl (Jan 24, 2016)

While will never know the real or full story it sounds like bad grapes to me.

"According to lawyer Arvin Santos, BI legal division chief, Satar and Goodacre are employed as senior management executives of two Cebu City-based companies engaged in the real estate and construction business.
Santos said the activities of the two Australians were reported to the BI by Filipino workers employed in the said companies who opposed their management."

They were employed by by a Filipino company, perhaps advised by that company that paperwork with immi was in order and at some point things went south but as said who knows.

"The complainants also reportedly alleged that Satar and Goodacre continued to ignore the repeated advice of the company’s Filipino executives for them to apply for the appropriate work permits and visas as it is required under the country’s Philippine labor and immigration laws.
Investigation revealed that despite the duo’s failure to apply for work permits and visa, they continued to exercise control and supervision over the companies’ business operations."

All sounds very suspect to me.

Cheers, Steve.


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## Lunkan (Aug 28, 2020)

bigpearl said:


> While will never know the real or full story it sounds like bad grapes to me.
> ...
> They were employed by by a Filipino company, perhaps advised by that company that paperwork with immi was in order and at some point things went south but as said who knows.
> ...
> All sounds very suspect to me.


 Yes. Because why would a Filipino company employ them without work permit, knowing they hadn't any..?

But no big difference because they aren't let in as foreigners because of covid anyway  

- - -
We talked some about work permits in some other topic a while ago.
Working permits are demanded even for VOLONTARY work for known aid organisations!
My interpretion concerning work permits is it's needed for foreign husbands even to assist Filipna wife in her business. 
So expats LOCK UP to not risk to get deported because of missing work permit.


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## Manitoba (Jun 25, 2014)

Lunkan said:


> .....
> Working permits are demanded even for VOLONTARY work for known aid organisations!
> .....


Yes that part sucks. 

To keep my professional license I need points in three categories. When working it was easy, work, formal training and informal self study covered it. Now without working I need another category like volunteering. In Canada I had claimed in this category for being a judge at a high school science fair. I had thought I could do that, help students with English on papers at a university level, give a presentation of some sort but all that could get me deported.


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## Gary D (Oct 28, 2013)

Work permits are not straight forward and expensive, it's not unknown for filipino companies to take the risk and tell a foreigner everything is in order when it's not. It's the foreigner that takes tbe fall, there's no comeback on the company. Getting a travel agent to source you visa updates is another area that can go sadly wrong. Fake visas have been issued with no penalty to the travel agent, just the foreigner being deported.


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## Lunkan (Aug 28, 2020)

Manitoba said:


> Yes that part sucks.
> To keep my professional license I need points in three categories. When working it was easy, work, formal training and informal self study covered it. Now without working I need another category like volunteering. In Canada I had claimed in this category for being a judge at a high school science fair. I had thought I could do that, help students with English on papers at a university level, give a presentation of some sort but all that could get me deported.


 Isn't English your first language? (Or are you FrenchCanadian?)
If so you have good chance to get WORK permit approved as English teacher/tutor. At least it was that earlier. 
If you just need it for licencing, you can search work permit for tutoring e g South Koreans through internet. I don't know how easy/hard that is to get approved, but before covid many foreigners got work teaching English for schools or *call centers*. The later wasn't much English teaching, it was teaching English/American/Australian ACCENT to Filipinos, who can English allready.


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## Manitoba (Jun 25, 2014)

Lunkan said:


> Isn't English your first language? (Or are you FrenchCanadian?)
> If so you have good chance to get WORK permit approved as English teacher/tutor. At least it was that earlier.
> ....


I do not want to work on a regular basis and definitely do not want to work teaching English. 

I was thinking about volunteering for an afternoon to be a science fair judge ( if they have them here) or making a presentation to a professional gathering. All I need is a few hours to check the third box as I can get enough total hours by taking a formal on line course of some sort ( lots of free and interesting ones out there) and doing some self study. My normal reading into professional issues will qualify.

I know that the chance of being deported or "working" by judging a science fair is pretty small but not a chance I am willing to take.


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## Lunkan (Aug 28, 2020)

Manitoba said:


> I know that the chance of being deported or "working" by judging a science fair is pretty small but not a chance I am willing to take.


 It's enough to get problemby some jelous report you.
But I suppouse some less jelousy at judging a science fair than jugding a beauty contest, although I guess more risk to get attacked if judging "wrong" at a beauty contest :heh:


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## Manitoba (Jun 25, 2014)

Lunkan said:


> It's enough to get problemby some jelous report you.
> .....


Like if the mayor's kid loses out to the kid of the guy who opposed him last election?


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## bigpearl (Jan 24, 2016)

Back on topic, I would question the 2 nationals mentioned and their lack of ability to monitor/govern their own modus operandi and their faith in that/a company. As said sh*t went down.

I have worked legally twice in the Philippines and my employer/company US. always asked for my passport every 2 months to extend my work visa, returned a couple of days later, the immi stamps are there in my old passport and never a problem, never questioned.
Over the years I have learnt on expat sites that there are genuine people, opportunists and scammers and as always Joe throws up tid bits for us to get our teeth into for an opinion right or wrong.

Possibly the two in question were innocent or no and fled wisely and are now plying their trade in another country and or counting their lucky stars.

OMO.

Cheers, Steve.


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## Manitoba (Jun 25, 2014)

I have noticed in every expat community that there is always a fraction of the people who think that working on a tourist visa is OK and not a big deal. This seams to be more pronounced in part time and casual, cash paying jobs.

It really is not a big deal, until they get caught then some places make it a huge deal.

Anyone getting deported or banned for knowingly violating visa terms gets zero sympathy from me.


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## Lunkan (Aug 28, 2020)

Manitoba said:


> I have noticed in every expat community that there is always a fraction of the people who think that working on a tourist visa is OK and not a big deal.


 Basicly I agree with you (=Correct it's a crime t o work without having it.)

Except:
/People working through *internet* so can work from anywhere in the worl, at least them working through internet in their home country and are realy tourists for a shorter while.
/*Some* of the *volontary jobs* them in *known* aid organisations. Because if it would be any then it can be used for cheating just calling it volontary work but geting pay for it. Or when it's *obviously* no pay. E g I suppouse coaching obviously no pay for leading a team of 7 yo kids in basketball  
/I don't know if expats need work permit for doing work* AT own home.* Some say so. But it would be silly IF it¨s illegal to e g cooking food for own family or cut grass at own lawn...



Manitoba said:


> Anyone getting deported or banned for *knowingly* violating visa terms gets zero sympathy from me.


 It isn't sure it's knowingly. The employer can have said it¨s solved and many people don't check things as proper as us 



Manitoba said:


> Like if the mayor's kid loses out to the kid of the guy who opposed him last election?


 It don''t need to be someone with power, anyone can report, it don't even need to be true to make a problem for the foreigner. E g
/I don't know if it's true but a successful foreign businessman claim his documents were in order when his FFilipina wife together with hiis Filipino businesspartner reported him to get the business for themselves, reported him and he got deported.
/One of the expats, who earn rather much at videos showing life in the Philippines. He financed fatening of a few pigs handled by his wife and mother-in-law. Their long waterhose to the pigpen had been *sabotaged* and he comente it was jelous people so I suppouse itwasn'tthe first time Lucky for him (?) they haven't reported him for not having work permit for the vloging work. *That* American check things rather good, so perhaps he has work permit. But one of the *other* expat vlogers I guess don't have, because he don't seem to keep order of anything  Perhaps this second has got deported because I haven't seen any new videos from him in over a year. (Although I haven't searched because most did show his messy life, but he was very good at living cheap e g his rent was 2000 p for a 2 room house because he had done repair*work* himself at it e g some plumming.)


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## Gary D (Oct 28, 2013)

You don't need to be paid just deprive a local of income.


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## Lunkan (Aug 28, 2020)

Gary D said:


> You don't need to be paid just deprive a local of income.


 Then one of the working expats DIDN'T do it, because if he hadn't done it himself it wouldn't have been done, because he was short of money :heh:

Where do they draw the line for such - partly - stupid definition? 
Aren't foreigners allowed to do anything of the work in *own* home? 
Are we allowed to take care of *own* kids...? 
Are we even allowed to dress ourselves ? - There are dresser occupations... :heh:


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## Gary D (Oct 28, 2013)

Lunkan said:


> Then one of the working expats DIDN'T do it, because if he hadn't done it himself it wouldn't have been done, because he was short of money :heh:
> 
> Where do they draw the line for such - partly - stupid definition?
> Aren't foreigners allowed to do anything of the work in *own* home?
> ...


Welcome to the Philippines.


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## Lunkan (Aug 28, 2020)

Gary D said:


> Welcome to the Philippines.


There are more related odd things.
A foreigner IS allowed to be (part) owner of an Education business. (Even full owner if main income come from abroad.)
If having work permit to be e g (assistant) leader in such business:
(Except in some cases when Phils is short of such teachers) the foreigner ISN'T allowed to TEACH clients/student,
but IS allowed to INSTRUCT employed Filipino teachers how to teach 


(I have forgot where I got that from, I made much research about that subject 2-3 years ago.)

((Back then was my favorite business idea a very much in Phils needed education, but I have more or less skiped it, because Filipinos are to good at copying so if my business would teach students good, then I bet big part of them would start compeeting businesses to mine Iiiiii :heh: And they are satisfied with less earning than I, so they can easy beat me in priice, so from mine being a good business a short while, it would soon become not worth continuing. So I will not chose to start that business idea.))


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## magsasaja (Jan 31, 2014)

Lunkan said:


> My interpretion concerning work permits is it's needed for foreign husbands even to assist Filipna wife in her business.


If you have a 13a visa you can work. You can also pay social security and be entitled to a pension when you are 60.


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## Tiz (Jan 23, 2016)

I'm here on a 9G visa. (Pre-arranged Employment Visa.)
I don't have any sympathy for them.

Anyone that thinks they can just arrive in a foreign country and start working without the correct paperwork is an idiot.

When I first arrived in Manila, my visa wasn't fully approved yet. 
My company didn't even allow my into the office until everything was in order.
They just put me up in the Shang-ri La and told me to wait. 
After 2 weeks of that I decided to leave for Sydney and told them to let me know when to come back.


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## Gary D (Oct 28, 2013)

Tiz said:


> I'm here on a 9G visa. (Pre-arranged Employment Visa.)
> I don't have any sympathy for them.
> 
> Anyone that thinks they can just arrive in a foreign country and start working without the correct paperwork is an idiot.
> ...


You can get a short-term temporary work visa to tide you over whilst awaiting the work visa. If applying for a 13a it is advised to get this in the meantime.


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## Manitoba (Jun 25, 2014)

Tiz said:


> .....
> 
> Anyone that thinks they can just arrive in a foreign country and start working without the correct paperwork is an idiot.
> 
> ...


Go to Haiti, you get 90 day visa on arrival either tourist or business and you can work on a business visa.

But it really is a $%^hole country.


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## Lunkan (Aug 28, 2020)

Gary D said:


> You can get a short-term temporary work visa to tide you over whilst awaiting the work visa.


 Yes IF you get it approved 
There is a long list of job types foreigners don't get permit to do normaly. (The only exceptionI know of from jobs at that list is English teaching for you who have it as first language when there is a shortage.)


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## Cebu Citizen (Dec 13, 2013)

One of my side companies back in the US, (before I retired and sold it), manufactured portable water purification systems. In November 2013, just 3 days after the devastating Super Typhoon Yolanda hit Tacloban, Leyte; we arrived here in the Philippines with nearly a quarter of a million dollars worth of our portable water purification systems to donate...we were here helping the people and giving away free products to help with the severe potable water shortage and after just 6 weeks here, the Philippines Government asked us to leave!

We were here assisting people who had lost nearly everything, their homes, businesses, jobs, family members, etc. There was plenty of fresh water around but it was ALL contaminated with sea water and dead bodies floating everywhere and was no longer potable and some officials were more concerned with our lack of work permits...ABSOLUTELY CRAZY!!!

It's one thing to try to curb illegal workers and such but a humanitarian situation after a devastating natural disaster? Really...so we packed up and left just before Christmas and went back home to keep them from getting their feathers ruffled!


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## Gary D (Oct 28, 2013)

Cebu Citizen said:


> One of my side companies back in the US, (before I retired and sold it), manufactured portable water purification systems. In November 2013, just 3 days after the devastating Super Typhoon Yolanda hit Tacloban, Leyte; we arrived here in the Philippines with nearly a quarter of a million dollars worth of our portable water purification systems to donate...we were here helping the people and giving away free products to help with the severe potable water shortage and after just 6 weeks here, the Philippines Government asked us to leave!
> 
> We were here assisting people who had lost nearly everything, their homes, businesses, jobs, family members, etc. There was plenty of fresh water around but it was ALL contaminated with sea water and dead bodies floating everywhere and was no longer potable and some officials were more concerned with our lack of work permits...ABSOLUTELY CRAZY!!!
> 
> It's one thing to try to curb illegal workers and such but a humanitarian situation after a devastating natural disaster? Really...so we packed up and left just before Christmas and went back home to keep them from getting their feathers ruffled!


What you did wrong js not give the equipment to the government officials to sell in Manila.


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## Lunkan (Aug 28, 2020)

Cebu Citizen said:


> One of my side companies back in the US, (before I retired and sold it), manufactured portable water purification systems. In November 2013, just 3 days after the devastating Super Typhoon Yolanda hit Tacloban, Leyte; we arrived here in the Philippines with nearly a quarter of a million dollars worth of our portable water purification systems to donate...we were here helping the people and giving away free products to help with the severe potable water shortage and after just 6 weeks here, the Philippines Government asked us to leave!


Not only you e g:
/Aid workers got so frustrated by officials making thing so hard so they talked about leaving. (I don't know if they did.)
/The custom demanded riicilous high custom fees from aid organisation to let in GIFTS of special vehicles brought to the Philippines because managing driving at roads not driveable by common lorries by the hurricane!!!
/Some of the aid to hurricane victims went to shops in Manila instead.
/A French (?) company, I believe same as them who *mass produced fast * by a special builing technique emergency homes at Ache after the big tsunami years earlier, offered to built many such in Phils. (Dome houses. Very strong which can manage hurricanes, earthquakes and even flooding (after cleaning). I believe they gave up because of problems to get building permits!!!


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## Tiz (Jan 23, 2016)

Cebu Citizen said:


> One of my side companies back in the US, (before I retired and sold it), manufactured portable water purification systems. In November 2013, just 3 days after the devastating Super Typhoon Yolanda hit Tacloban, Leyte; we arrived here in the Philippines with nearly a quarter of a million dollars worth of our portable water purification systems to donate...we were here helping the people and giving away free products to help with the severe potable water shortage and after just 6 weeks here, the Philippines Government asked us to leave!
> 
> We were here assisting people who had lost nearly everything, their homes, businesses, jobs, family members, etc. There was plenty of fresh water around but it was ALL contaminated with sea water and dead bodies floating everywhere and was no longer potable and some officials were more concerned with our lack of work permits...ABSOLUTELY CRAZY!!!
> 
> It's one thing to try to curb illegal workers and such but a humanitarian situation after a devastating natural disaster? Really...so we packed up and left just before Christmas and went back home to keep them from getting their feathers ruffled!


I was living in Thailand in 2004 when the tsunami hit. There were many volunteers arrested in the aftermath for working without a permit.


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## Cebu Citizen (Dec 13, 2013)

Lunkan said:


> The custom demanded ridiculously high custom fees from aid organization




Customs did the same to my company in 2013...we were here helping their own people, after an absolutely devastating natural disaster and all they can think about was how much money can they extort from us in the process...but it is like Gary D said...I think the problem was, we did not give the corrupt politicians an opportunity to make some quick cash!!!

The same can be said about the corrupt owners of *Philippine Airlines* who charged us an astronomical fee to transport our water purification systems from Manila to Cebu! Yolanda completely annihilated the airport at Tacloban, Leyte; so we were forced to travel first by air to Cebu and then a ferry to Ormoc City and then by land to our destination and Philippine Airlines ripped us for a *HUGE* amount of money because our cargo was over our personal passenger limit! We pleaded with them and asked to speak to someone in charge and we explained what the items were and *NO ONE CARED!!!* They just saw an opportunity to make some additional money...and the plane was nearly empty!!!!!

And the sad part was...the money taken from us by Customs and Philippine Airlines was coming out of our volunteers' living expenses! We knew up front that the area was devastated and there would be very little food available in the area and we knew we would need to pack in most of our supplies for the duration of our trip. that extorted money seriously compromised our humanitarian efforts...but we prevailed and were successful despite their efforts to profit off of the plight of their own people!


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## Lunkan (Aug 28, 2020)

Cebu Citizen said:


> Customs did the same to my company in 2013...we were here helping their own people, after an absolutely devastating natural disaster


 It don't suprise me (but it did back then). The list I wrote in my earlier post was some of what I know about the handling after the hurricane Yolanda 2013.


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## bigpearl (Jan 24, 2016)

And let's hope/pray with the current government sh1t like this has been curtailed and OMO.

cheers, Steve.


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## Lunkan (Aug 28, 2020)

bigpearl said:


> And let's hope/pray with the current government sh1t like this has been curtailed and OMO.
> 
> cheers, Steve.


 Rather soon after Duterte got elected he fired both the highest boss of LTO and custom for corruption. (Perhaps because of incompetence for the LTO for not solving new licence plates?) Fired some more in high positions e g a Police boss, and had a long list of police, jugdes an mayors suspected for serious corruption, but I don't know if anything happened with them in the list. (Except them involved in drug criminality as e g a mayor at Leyte.)

*Anyone knowing if it has become any improvemments by this?*


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