# Is AED 14000/month a good salary?



## Ramesh.Medapati

Hi,

I have received an offer of AED 14000/month(all inclusive) to be based out of either Dubai or Abu Dhabi locations. I am a Senior S/W engineer(Oracle consultant) with 4+ yrs of experience.

Could you please let me know the cost of living in these two cities and if this a good salary to start with?


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## Andy Capp

Oracle sell your services for $1,500 a day.

Go figure.


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## pamela0810

Ramesh.Medapati said:


> Hi,
> 
> I have received an offer of AED 14000/month(all inclusive) to be based out of either Dubai or Abu Dhabi locations. I am a Senior S/W engineer(Oracle consultant) with 4+ yrs of experience.
> 
> Could you please let me know the cost of living in these two cities and if this a good salary to start with?


Are you going to be based here as an individual/bachelor or do you have family (wife/kids) who will be living with you. If you are moving here alone, you will be able to manage on a very minimal scale in Dubai and Abu Dhabi. Although rentals have gone down in Dubai, they are very high in Abu Dhabi and a major portion of your salary will be spent on it.

If you have school-going children, then AED 14,000 will not be enough to manage in either city. School fees are very high out here and add to that the fact that you will need to rent an apartment, you will be cutting it a bit too close.


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## woodlands

Ramesh.Medapati said:


> Hi,
> 
> I have received an offer of AED 14000/month(all inclusive) to be based out of either Dubai or Abu Dhabi locations. I am a Senior S/W engineer(Oracle consultant) with 4+ yrs of experience.
> 
> Could you please let me know the cost of living in these two cities and if this a good salary to start with?


With housing allowance etc ?
A guy at your level in the US earns 130 k USD. That's 40k aed...accommodation here is expensive as are schools. Plus why would u work for a ********* in the middle of a desert so there needs to be a premium..50% is a good number. That takes you to 60k aed. 
Someone offers u 14k aed, ask them to go s***** themselves.


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## jpcurran1

If you get accommodation or a housing allowance, then yes, you could live comfortably on that. If you are also supporting a family, then, maybe not.

If you are having to pay for your own accommodation then you will struggle, in Abu Dhabi there is little under 100k per year and that has to be paid fully in advance (the full 12 months). Dubai is certainly cheaper for accommodation (eg you will get a nice apartment for 60k) and landlords there are more flexible with regards to the number of payments.

Expect to pay about 2500 per month for a decent (but not flash!) car, fuel is very inexpensive (I get about 450km in my 4x4 for 100 Dirhams), eating out can be expensive, and alcohol is often ridiculously priced in restaurants.

Many people do commute from Dubai to Abu Dhabi, but the driving can be erratic at times (putting it mildly) and the drive can take anything from 1 to 2 hours depending on the area of Dubai and Abu Dhabi you travel between.

Hope this helps.


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## Andy Capp

woodlands said:


> With housing allowance etc ?
> *A guy at your level in the US earns 130 k USD. That's 40k aed*...accommodation here is expensive as are schools. Plus why would u work for a ********* in the middle of a desert so there needs to be a premium..50% is a good number. That takes you to 60k aed.
> Someone offers u 14k aed, ask them to go s***** themselves.


That's why companies outsource....


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## pamela0810

He did mention that his salary is all inclusive. And being from the same country as him, I have to say, his salary is not really based on his qualifications but rather the place where he originates from. Let's face it, salary scales in this country differ based on nationality and based on our nationality, he probably won't go too far negotiating for a AED 60K salary per month.


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## Elphaba

woodlands said:


> With housing allowance etc ?
> A guy at your level in the US earns 130 k USD. That's 40k aed...accommodation here is expensive as are schools. Plus why would u work for a ********* in the middle of a desert so there needs to be a premium..50% is a good number. That takes you to 60k aed.
> Someone offers u 14k aed, ask them to go s***** themselves.


'*********' ? Kindly refrain from using terms like that here. If in doubt see the forum rules.
-


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## Andy Capp

Elphaba said:


> '*********' ? Kindly refrain from using terms like that here. If in doubt see the forum rules.
> -


I know, I thought the term was "*******"!

Let's face it, if people don't even know the local (sic) terminology.....


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## Ramesh.Medapati

pamela0810 said:


> Are you going to be based here as an individual/bachelor or do you have family (wife/kids) who will be living with you. If you are moving here alone, you will be able to manage on a very minimal scale in Dubai and Abu Dhabi. Although rentals have gone down in Dubai, they are very high in Abu Dhabi and a major portion of your salary will be spent on it.
> 
> If you have school-going children, then AED 14,000 will not be enough to manage in either city. School fees are very high out here and add to that the fact that you will need to rent an apartment, you will be cutting it a bit too close.


Hi Pamela,

I am single. I was told that I should be able to get a single bed apartment for AED 4000 and my total monthly expenses wouldn't exceed 7000 AED(including house rental). Is this a realistic estimate?


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## Seabee

Woodlands, you're way off beam. What someone in the US earns is not relevant unless you're hiring him from there. 

As Pamela said, country of origin is a basic factor of salary levels and he's from India. _"...there needs to be a premium..50% is a good number..."_ Maybe the offer_ is _a 50% premium on what he currently earns.


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## woodlands

Seabee said:


> Woodlands, you're way off beam. What someone in the US earns is not relevant unless you're hiring him from there.
> 
> As Pamela said, country of origin is a basic factor of salary levels and he's from India. _"...there needs to be a premium..50% is a good number..."_ Maybe the offer_ is _a 50% premium on what he currently earns.


He is living in Singapore. As for nationality...to my right sits an indian bloke who earns at least 1m usd per year in a bad year...and junior blokes, all indian earn at least 200k usd . And 60% of the office staff is Indian...so i don't really buy that nationality thing. Is it prevalent, yes, does he need to subject himself to it..no. 

Do u know what skillset he has? How valuable that is? Just because he is not white he should be making less. Let me teach you a lesson. On a free day go to DIFC. See how many Indians work there. You think they are working at less than dollar equivalent salaries in US....i don't buy that in skilled jobs these things matter or should matter.


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## Tropicana

Ramesh.Medapati said:


> Hi Pamela,
> 
> I am single. I was told that I should be able to get a single bed apartment for AED 4000 and my total monthly expenses wouldn't exceed 7000 AED(including house rental). Is this a realistic estimate?



In ABu dhabi you wont get a 1 bd at less than 7000 a month.

I think 14k is ok if you are single. 

Around 20% of firms dont have large pay differentials based on country of origin, unfortunately the rest 80 % do.


What generally happens in the worst cases is that a South Indian who can barely speak comprehensible English and graduated from a Regional Eng college will be offered the same salary as someone who worked in Oracle in the US.

In the better companies, there isnt much difference in what is paid.


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## woodlands

pamela0810 said:


> He did mention that his salary is all inclusive. And being from the same country as him, I have to say, his salary is not really based on his qualifications but rather the place where he originates from. Let's face it, salary scales in this country differ based on nationality and based on our nationality, he probably won't go too far negotiating for a AED 60K salary per month.


I am amazed that you choose to degrade your own nationality this way. Are you saying that no indian earns more than 60k aed or negotiates for it.? India i guess is a big country and has many different classes of people. Just because u can't fanthom an indian negotiating a 60k aed salary does not count for much i am afraid. i see plenty to the contrary. Do you know btw what % of graduating class of harvard business school is indian or of indian origin/definately indian looking...30%...its even higher at other places.... u think one of those guys would work for a ******* (assuming this is correct) for 60k aed?......that's way too much inferiority complex. You will only get as much respect as you ascribe to yourself.


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## pamela0810

woodlands said:


> I am amazed that you choose to degrade your own nationality this way. Are you saying that no indian earns more than 60k aed or negotiates for it.? India i guess is a big country and has many different classes of people. Just because u can't fanthom an indian negotiating a 60k aed salary does not count for much i am afraid. i see plenty to the contrary. Do you know btw what % of graduating class of harvard business school is indian or of indian origin/definately indian looking...30%...its even higher at other places.... u think one of those guys would work for a ******* (assuming this is correct) for 60k aed?......that's way too much inferiority complex. You will only get as much respect as you ascribe to yourself.


I am going to take the high road and ignore everything that you have said above, simply because your ignorance is very evident in the fact that you choose to address the people, whose country you are now living in with derogatory terms. I have read your posts and they are nothing but negative jibes at the people and the city of Dubai, so your effort to try and stir up something with me is really quite futile.


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## pamela0810

Ramesh.Medapati said:


> Hi Pamela,
> 
> I am single. I was told that I should be able to get a single bed apartment for AED 4000 and my total monthly expenses wouldn't exceed 7000 AED(including house rental). Is this a realistic estimate?


Hi Ramesh,

I think Tropicana has already answered your question. You will be fine if you are single, as you can live in a studio and lead a fairly comfortable life with that salary. It's a little different in Abu Dhabi as rentals are higher there. So if given a choice, I would recommend you choose Dubai over Abu Dhabi.

Good luck!


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## Jynxgirl

pamela0810 said:


> I am going to take the high road and ignore everything that you have said above, simply because your ignorance is very evident in the fact that you choose to address the people, whose country you are now living in with derogatory terms. I have read your posts and they are nothing but negative jibes at the people and the city of Dubai, so your effort to try and stir up something with me is really quite futile.


Very adult and much nicer reply then the person deserved!


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## hownowbc

Would people agree that a 50% premium on their home country salary is a reasonable and realistic expectation? It may be too intrusive for some but is that what each of you achieved, initially or eventually? Any views?
I thought it was a supply demand thing. Times of greater availability of jobs with job seekers constant creates salary offers to increase and vice versa.
My last time out there I was paid exactly what I was earning but the attraction was the 'tax free'. I was naive then and maybe still am! I think I'd be happy with, say, a 33% premium


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## Jynxgirl

This depends on you, the individual. What are you willing to accept, for the inconvenience (or convenience some people seem to think) of living here. 

I hear people on here saying they dont make more money here then back home but yet to meet someone in real life who didnt come over here making more money then back home. 

For me, the very minimum would be I would have to make the same amount in salary received as I was at home, plus have housing, trans, health provided for. That would be the very bare minimum. 

That said, I have a number of individuals who make is on similar salary as the 14k without accomodations or transportation, a few of them with children ... Its all about how you live. They say its better then where they are from, so its good enough at this point.


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## hownowbc

That makes a lot of sense to me and of course you have to take account of having accommodation and transport provided. Thanks for the view.
In passing, all of the 'advice', opinions given to the original querist, with one obvious exception, I think have been very reasonable, practical and helpful. Lets hope he makes the correct decision and that if he takes the job he is happy - and prospers which could be a separate matter.


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## Andy Capp

woodlands said:


> I am amazed that you choose to degrade your own nationality this way. Are you saying that no indian earns more than 60k aed or negotiates for it.? India i guess is a big country and has many different classes of people. Just because u can't fanthom an indian negotiating a 60k aed salary does not count for much i am afraid. i see plenty to the contrary. Do you know btw what % of graduating class of harvard business school is indian or of indian origin/definately indian looking...30%...its even higher at other places.... u think one of those guys would work for a ******* (assuming this is correct) for 60k aed?......that's way too much inferiority complex. You will only get as much respect as you ascribe to yourself.


I agree.


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## woodlands

pamela0810 said:


> I am going to take the high road and ignore everything that you have said above, simply because your ignorance is very evident in the fact that you choose to address the people, whose country you are now living in with derogatory terms. I have read your posts and they are nothing but negative jibes at the people and the city of Dubai, so your effort to try and stir up something with me is really quite futile.


1./ The guy deserves more than 14k for sure. So he should not come here unless he gets paid more.
2./ I really like Dubai. 
3./ For someone who thinks that people being paid on nationality is ok, and who tries to categorize a very diverse segment of people into one narrow band, talking about taking the high road is pretty rich. 
4./ You have all the freedom to say why you don't deserve 60k but don't have the right to say why everyone with your nationality doesn't deserve it. BTW you may be surprised to know that the entire 100th floor of Burj Khalifa is owned by an Indian guy .. .


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## Tropicana

woodlands said:


> 4./ You have all the freedom to say why you don't deserve 60k but don't have the right to say why everyone with your nationality doesn't deserve it. BTW you may be surprised to know that the entire 100th floor of Burj Khalifa is owned by an Indian guy .. .



Well said.

Categorizing by nationality doesnt make sense , even with "home country premiums", simply because in India, there are engineers earning 1000 Dhs and engineers earning 20,000 Dhs. 

So its really stupid for companies to offer 3000 Dhs to the guy earning 20,000, with the candidate turning it down, and the company HR will scratch their heads and ask, "why should I pay more than 3000 for an Indian when other Indians will accept it?"
The answer being, there is a whole world of difference between the 2 engineers, but in the narrow eyes of that company, their work/experience/ability differential counts for little, what matters is that they are "both Indians"......

One will notice that in general, the more successful companies in Dubai often dont have wild salary fluctuations based on country of origin; a difference of 20-30% maybe, but not the "westerner should earn 4 times what the Asian earns"


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## pamela0810

Seriously Woodlands, this is one argument you will not win. But since I have some time to kill before I actually begin my work day...here goes. 



woodlands said:


> 1./ The guy deserves more than 14k for sure. So he should not come here unless he gets paid more. - You don't know the guy. You only know that he is an Indian S/W engineer who is supposedly based in Singapore and has 4 years of experience. This may come as a shock to you but Software engineers are a dime a dozen in India. In fact, you will be hard pressed to find an Indian who is not an Engineer, holds a Master's degree or is some sort of professional in a specialised field. We are a very smart and competitive race, so him being an Oracle certified Software engineer really is no big feat as probably half of Ramesh's classmates have gone on to actually get MBAs or PHDs by now, which is typical of us people.
> 2./ I really like Dubai. - You call the people of Dubai towelheads and because Andy Capp suggested "*******", went on to call them that, which only goes to show that you really aren't the brightest bonbon in the box. He was winding you up and you played right into his hands.
> 3./ For someone who thinks that people being paid on nationality is ok, and who tries to categorize a very diverse segment of people into one narrow band, talking about taking the high road is pretty rich. - See above point about bonbons
> 4./ You have all the freedom to say why you don't deserve 60k but don't have the right to say why everyone with your nationality doesn't deserve it. BTW you may be surprised to know that the entire 100th floor of Burj Khalifa is owned by an Indian guy ..  - I did not say that everyone in my nationality deserves less than 60K. Again, you don't know the guy, so for you to tell him that he needs to negotiate for at least 60K a month would be highly misleading because if he loses this job offer in the bargain, my guess is that you will be no where around to help him find another one.
> And lastly, you don't know me either, so don't make assumptions based out of ignorance. I am not surprised that an Indian owns the entire 100th floor of the Burj Khalifa as I know the person. Chances are that at some point during your stay in Dubai, you have crossed one of the many bridges that my family has built in Dubai. Some of the richest people in this city are Indians but that does not mean all Indians should fight for a salary of 60K and above only because they are Oracle certified software engineer.


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## pamela0810

Ramesh.Medapati said:


> Hi Pamela,
> 
> I am single. I was told that I should be able to get a single bed apartment for AED 4000 and my total monthly expenses wouldn't exceed 7000 AED(including house rental). Is this a realistic estimate?



Hi Ramesh,

I've mentioned earlier, if you are a single, based on your qualifications and experience, AED 14,000 a month is a decent enough start. Once you're here and you earn the relevant market experience, you can then go on to negotiate a high salary with the other IT companies based in Dubai. I did recommend that you be based in Dubai as rents are cheaper and the cost of living these days is generally lower than Abu Dhabi.

Please pm me if you need any further details and I will be happy to help. Btw, I come from a family of CCNEs.


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## goingtodubai

hownowbc said:


> Would people agree that a 50% premium on their home country salary is a reasonable and realistic expectation?


I think it is.


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## woodlands

pamela0810 said:


> Seriously Woodlands, this is one argument you will not win. But since I have some time to kill before I actually begin my work day...here goes.



"In fact, you will be hard pressed to find an Indian who is not an Engineer, holds a Master's degree or is some sort of professional in a specialised field. We are a very smart and competitive race, "

Again a bit too much generalization...? 1 billion people ..more than 400 m on less than $1/day...i guess u see where the issue is.


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## pamela0810

woodlands said:


> "In fact, you will be hard pressed to find an Indian who is not an Engineer, holds a Master's degree or is some sort of professional in a specialised field. We are a very smart and competitive race, "
> 
> Again a bit too much generalization...? 1 billion people ..more than 400 m on less than $1/day...i guess u see where the issue is.


It is not a generalization, it's a fact. A generalization would be me saying that inspite of the vast disparity between the rich and the poor people in our country, we are still more educated than the entire population of France. That, would be a generalization.


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## SBP

woodlands said:


> I am amazed that you choose to degrade your own nationality this way. Are you saying that no indian earns more than 60k aed or negotiates for it.? India i guess is a big country and has many different classes of people. Just because u can't fanthom an indian negotiating a 60k aed salary does not count for much i am afraid. i see plenty to the contrary. Do you know btw what % of graduating class of harvard business school is indian or of indian origin/definately indian looking...30%...its even higher at other places.... u think one of those guys would work for a ******* (assuming this is correct) for 60k aed?......that's way too much inferiority complex. You will only get as much respect as you ascribe to yourself.




Pammy, forgive him, he is French and we all know how pompous some people who are from/live in that country can be................


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## SBP

pamela0810 said:


> It is not a generalization, it's a fact. A generalization would be me saying that inspite of the vast disparity between the rich and the poor people in our country, we are still more educated than the entire population of France. That, would be a generalization.


It's cos they too busy eating garlic........... also a generalisation  (excuse the S instead of Z but am British)


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## Mr Rossi

pamela0810 said:


> you can then go on to negotiate a high salary with the other IT companies based in Dubai.


How can he?

Its not particularly easy to change jobs here in Dubai, especially during probation period.


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## pamela0810

Mr Rossi said:


> How can he?
> 
> Its not particularly easy to change jobs here in Dubai, especially during probation period.


Well not right away. It would be terribly unprofessional of him if he shows up here and tries to find another job within the probation period. I guess I wasn't clear enough. What I meant was that he could look for better opportunities once he has gathered enough experience within this market, maybe in a couple of years or so, definitely not within a probationary period.

I just noticed that you only selected part of the sentence and hence my statement has been taken out of context. I did mention the part about earning the necessary experience.


> Once you're here and you earn the relevant market experience, you can then go on to negotiate a high salary with the other IT companies based in Dubai.


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## woodlands

SBP said:


> Pammy, forgive him, he is French and we all know how pompous some people who are from/live in that country can be................


I am not fighting for french pride...just indian dignity.. ...


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## xdude

14k is still lower for Oracle DBA.. try to negotiate it further to around 20k.. or try to get an additional housing allowance.. do you get medical in addition?


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## Mr Rossi

pamela0810 said:


> I just noticed that you only selected part of the sentence and hence my statement has been taken out of context. I did mention the part about earning the necessary experience.


I presumed he already had the experience hence why he was being offered the job.

As a side, a quick Google search reveals that an Oracle Engineer in the USA is on average - $105,000 per year or 32,137 AED per month.


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## Seabee

_"I am going to take the high road and ignore everything that you have said above, simply because your ignorance is very evident in the fact that you choose to address the people, whose country you are now living in with derogatory terms. I have read your posts and they are nothing but negative jibes at the people and the city of Dubai, so your effort to try and stir up something with me is really quite futile." _

I agree 100% Pamela. In fact if you look at Woodlands efforts on this forum he's verging on being a troll, and the best approach is to ignore them. Unfortunately he's giving bad advice to people on this forum.

In another thread he said he'd been here 4 months - he still has an awful lot to learn about the place, the society, the way business operates and common courtesy.


*hownowbc*, this whole salary related to country of origin is a hugely complex question IMO. The first thing to acknowledge is that this is a temporary guest worker society which makes the way it works quite different from most societies. People come here to earn more than they did 'back home', to support family and/or to save for a better future than if they'd stayed home. 

In that context it's understandable that salary is based on country of origin. (Not based simply on race & colour BTW - look for example at the salaries many people here from countries in eastern Europe are paid). 

Your thought of a premium on the home country salary is really the key. If people can live at least to the standard they did back home and can save more then they're better off here. 

The cost of living here obviously comes into it, but again it's a complex issue. The standard and quality of how you're prepared to live is based on what you're used to in the society you come from. For example, staff in my building are paid Dh600 a month and live in the utility rooms. I've asked them why they don't go home and they say the're better off staying here.

On my blog I've written a few posts trying to get my head around it all, for example here: 
Life in Dubai: Better off in Dubai


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## pamela0810

For the sake of everyone involved in this discussion, I am hoping that Ramesh gets back online and gives us more detailed information about his qualifications. The term “Software Engineer” is used very liberally by many computer professionals. In fact, very few such software engineers actually hold engineering degrees from accredited universities. A majority of them hold degrees in Computer Science or similar and then go on to be professionally certified by companies such as Oracle, Microsoft, Cisco, etc. thereby earning the titles MCSE, CCNA, CCNP or in this case Oracle Consultant.

If Ramesh does in fact have an engineering degree from a reputed university back home such as IIT, etc and a professional certification on top of that, I would still suggest that he get to Dubai first, earn the relevant experience and then negotiate for a better pay package. The competitive environment back in India, especially in the IT sector, makes it very difficult to demand a high salary. So there is a very high possibility that he has been offered a salary that is much better than what he is currently earning, plus he does not get 33% of his salary deducted in taxes if he moves to Dubai.

For those of you who are using google to research the salaries that Software Engineers earn in the States, please note that the use of terms such as “computer engineer” and “software engineer” are under regulation. Also, countries like Canada will not grant a “Professional Engineer” status or license to anyone who has not completed the appropriate academic engineering qualifications. So there is a big difference between a Software Engineer licensed in the States and a Software Engineer from India. Hence, we cannot really compare salaries without getting complete information about this individual’s background qualifications.

As a single Indian guy who has been offered AED 14,000 a month, I really don’t think he is doing that bad. He is in a much better place than a lot of "Software Engineers" from India who are currently working on Computer Street in Bur Dubai.

This guy is getting a decent break. Please do not deter him from a better opportunity by giving him false hope that he can actually earn AED 30,000 a month without any Dubai experience at all, especially considering the current market situation. He could end up without a job in both places.

I need a coffee!!!


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## Mr Rossi

The concept of "at least people are earning more than back home" is what leads to people abandoned in labour camps with no food and water.


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## Seabee

No, Mr Rossi, what leads to that is bad employers and a lack of regulation or enforcement of existing laws. And if they're abandoned, the lack of an insurance system and lack of help from their embassy.


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## pamela0810

Maybe they need to read your blog Seabee so that they can have a look at the images and realise how different life is for some people back home. Those images are everyday reality for a lot of people in India and not just exceptional situations, so hopefully it'll open up their eyes a bit more.


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## Ramesh.Medapati

pamela0810 said:


> For the sake of everyone involved in this discussion, I am hoping that Ramesh gets back online and gives us more detailed information about his qualifications. The term “Software Engineer” is used very liberally by many computer professionals. In fact, very few such software engineers actually hold engineering degrees from accredited universities. A majority of them hold degrees in Computer Science or similar and then go on to be professionally certified by companies such as Oracle, Microsoft, Cisco, etc. thereby earning the titles MCSE, CCNA, CCNP or in this case Oracle Consultant.
> 
> If Ramesh does in fact have an engineering degree from a reputed university back home such as IIT, etc and a professional certification on top of that, I would still suggest that he get to Dubai first, earn the relevant experience and then negotiate for a better pay package. The competitive environment back in India, especially in the IT sector, makes it very difficult to demand a high salary. So there is a very high possibility that he has been offered a salary that is much better than what he is currently earning, plus he does not get 33% of his salary deducted in taxes if he moves to Dubai.
> 
> For those of you who are using google to research the salaries that Software Engineers earn in the States, please note that the use of terms such as “computer engineer” and “software engineer” are under regulation. Also, countries like Canada will not grant a “Professional Engineer” status or license to anyone who has not completed the appropriate academic engineering qualifications. So there is a big difference between a Software Engineer licensed in the States and a Software Engineer from India. Hence, we cannot really compare salaries without getting complete information about this individual’s background qualifications.
> 
> As a single Indian guy who has been offered AED 14,000 a month, I really don’t think he is doing that bad. He is in a much better place than a lot of "Software Engineers" from India who are currently working on Computer Street in Bur Dubai.
> 
> This guy is getting a decent break. Please do not deter him from a better opportunity by giving him false hope that he can actually earn AED 30,000 a month without any Dubai experience at all, especially considering the current market situation. He could end up without a job in both places.
> 
> I need a coffee!!!


Hi Everyone,

As can be seen from the posts, a lot has been discussed on this topic so far.

Just to clarify

1. I am working in India, earning close to INR 700000 per annum (close to AED 55K per annum / AED 5k per month - taxable). Working with world's fourth largest technology company(and yes, this is above average salary for my experience)

2. Working as an Oracle Fusion Middleware Consultant (EAI/SOA/BPEL etc..) with 4+ yrs of experience.


You can see the average salary stats for this skill-set for UK from the below link
BPEL Jobs, Average Salary for Business Process Execution Language (BPEL) Skills

which is, close to AED 24K per month (this is for UK region)


Just to let you know, I am considering this opportunity as one of the options, as my current organization is in preparations of sponsoring me a H1-B visa(quoted salary is USD 60K per annum - apprx. AED 18K per month - taxable).


I was very much surprised to see exaggerated salary estimates in certain previous posts.


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## pamela0810

Hi Ramesh,

Good luck with whatever you decide. Please feel free to pm me if you need any help with your move.



PS: I'm glad you came back online and set the record straight.


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## Mr Rossi

Seabee said:


> No, Mr Rossi, what leads to that is bad employers and a lack of regulation or enforcement of existing laws.


Which in turns happens through western companies exploiting economic differences for the same skills in the global employment market.


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## Seabee

Pamela, it's a difficult subject and, as I said, very complex. Writing helps my thinking so I've tried to get my head around the subject by writing a few posts on my blog over the years. That was just one of them but it helped to put the thing in context. To look at something from only one point of view gives a skewed version of it, we need to try to see it from the other person's perspective. To tell a labourer from the sub-continent (for example) that he should turn down a job offer of Dh600 a month because a labourer in the UK or US gets ten times more is arrogant nonsense. He needs the job, he needs the money, he'll be able to care for his family if he takes it and it's much more than he could earn at home. You need to look at it from his perspective.


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## pamela0810

Seabee said:


> Pamela, it's a difficult subject and, as I said, very complex. Writing helps my thinking so I've tried to get my head around the subject by writing a few posts on my blog over the years. That was just one of them but it helped to put the thing in context. To look at something from only one point of view gives a skewed version of it, we need to try to see it from the other person's perspective. To tell a labourer from the sub-continent (for example) that he should turn down a job offer of Dh600 a month because a labourer in the UK or US gets ten times more is arrogant nonsense. He needs the job, he needs the money, he'll be able to care for his family if he takes it and it's much more than he could earn at home. You need to look at it from his perspective.


:clap2: I agree!


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## Seabee

Sorry to disagree Mr Rossi, but you're confusing two different issues. Being a bad employer and having a lack of adequate laws is not caused by _"...western companies exploiting economic differences for the same skills in the global employment market." _

Labourers being abandoned without food or water, your original suggestion, has nothing to do with comparative wage rates.

BTW, you're picking out 'western' companies as culprits when in fact companies from all over the world work in the same way.


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## Mr Rossi

Seabee said:


> To tell a labourer from the sub-continent (for example) that he should turn down a job offer of Dh600 a month because a labourer in the UK or US gets ten times more is arrogant nonsense.


Nobody is telling the labourer to turn down the job, we are telling the labourer (and everyone else) to fight for the same rights that his skill set allows globally, if his employer is trading on the global market ie Oracle.

Human rights come from the bottom up, not the top down and when there is no resistance at the bottom then the top go on unabated. 

Like I said, your arguement that people should be greatful of something regardless is the mentality that produces labour camps and sweatshops.


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## Seabee

PS Pamela, Ramesh with his latest information proves the point. From his perspective, the salary being offered is more than three times better than his current salary which he points out is 'above average salary for my experience.' 

As he points out there are 'exaggerated salary estimates in certain previous posts'. He's talking about the reality of his situation. 

Ramesh, you've started a real discussion here! Good luck with whatever you decide. 

(Sorry to put so many separate replies. Each time I post one I find a couple of new posts have got in before me  Signs that I'm a slow typist and this is a busy forum I guess.)


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## Mr Rossi

Seabee said:


> Being a bad employer and having a lack of adequate laws is not caused by _"...western companies exploiting economic differences for the same skills in the global employment market." _


It's exactly caused by that - why do think N ike etc get their manufacturing done in China?

Because of the unique dexterity that Chinese people have in their hands or because they are exploiting China's economic position and poor labour laws?


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## Seabee

Mr Rossi: _"your arguement that people should be greatful of something regardless"_

I didn't say that.

_"...we are telling the labourer (and everyone else) to fight for the same rights that his skill set allows globally, if his employer is trading on the global market ie Oracle."_

No-one is getting a job 'globally' they're getting it in a particular country. The rate for the same skill set is very different from country to country.

Just read the posts from Ramesh about the reality of his salary in India, compare it to the salary for his skill set in the UK, and also the salaries bandied about by Woodlands. Are you suggesting that he has to fight for a UK or US wage because that's somehow a global standard? He can stay in India on Dh5,000 a month taxable or he can come here for the going rate for him which is more than three times higher. On your principle of fighting for _"the same rights that his skill set allows globally"_ should he turn it down?


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## Iron Horse

In my opinion it is too low of a salary, but maybe one of the better ways to shine a light on this is to let those who are there(or were there like me) what kind of lifestyle you expect to have while in Dubai. This will let people give you realistic answers as to your offer.

This is a classic race to the bottom from my view, where people are accepting lower salaries just to have a job and the multi-national company pockets even bigger profits. It's criminal any way one looks at it. Everyone, not matter where they are from needs to hold out for higher incomes.


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## Seabee

Mr Rossi:

_"why do think N ike etc get their manufacturing done in China?"_

Because it's cheaper to manufacture there of course. Every country has a different economy, cost of living, standard of living. If a worker in China gets a decent wage in the context of China's economy he'll be earning a fraction of what a similar worker in say the UK is earning. But he lives to the same standard.

Are you saying he should earn _the same_ as his UK counterpart because **** is a global company? If he did he'd be much much better off than the UK worker...but of course the factory wouldn't be there because there'd be no financial advantage for it to be.

But that has nothing to do with being a good or bad employer. If the workers have a decent wage in the context of the cost/standard of living in the country in which they're working and are well treated, the company is a good employer. If it's a sweatshop with bad pay relative to the local market and bad conditions, that's a very different thing.

*Iron Horse,* it's not a "race to the bottom accepting lower salaries just to have a job". Ramesh has said it's more than three times what he's currently earning. He can stay where he is on Dh5000 taxable or come her on Dh14000 tax free.


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## Jynxgirl

This has been quite an adult conversation for the most part with actual good discussions. Bravo forum!

Everyone should hold out and make companies pay fairly across national diversity lines but the reality is that if he doesnt take that job, holding out on this principal, someone else will hop in that position gladly. I crack about living in discovery gardens and it being a labour camp. But its these lowly paid that live 3 to one apartment in one bedrooms in my building. And there is a never ending trickle of these professional engineers from india moving in. The guy I talk to in the next building (speaks VERY good english and quite normal - doesnt even start  have had many discussions with him on it) says he knows that its not ideal, but if he wouldnt have taken the job that was offered, someone else would have. I dislike it a great deal, this pay differential, hate to say have grown accustomed to it, but I can now see how/why it happens. 

And the companies are taking advantage. But that is what companies do seem to do everywhere, no? Lowest wage they can pay to the most qualified.


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## JonStewart87

I'm on $35,000 (128,555AED) per year right out of college plus around $16,500 (60,650AED) in benefits (move-in stipend, cost of living aid etc) and I've been told by other colleagues at the school that a single person can live comfortably on this salary.

anybody else out there a bachelor/bachelorette with a comprable salary, with thoughts?


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## Mr Rossi

Seabee said:


> should he turn it down?


Ramesh should do what's best for himself and his family, we'd kinda moved on to the injustices in the global free market.


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## Flying Leprechaun

pamela0810 said:


> ....which only goes to show that you really aren't the brightest bonbon in the box


lmaoooo!!!


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## Flying Leprechaun

woodlands said:


> I am not fighting for french pride...just indian dignity.. ...


lmao, vive la France!!!


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## RafalDXB

JonStewart87... 
...I'm here two years already with let's say comparable income & I can live comfortably  but not really to make any savings or something...
If you just want to get some experience and have some fun, that is just enough in my opinion. But don't expect to save anything


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## Tropicana

Seabee said:


> Mr Rossi:
> 
> 
> 
> *Iron Horse,* it's not a "race to the bottom accepting lower salaries just to have a job".




Oh yes, it very much is.


I was offered 2000 dhs in my first job here as an engineer. Reason? They can get Filipino Engineers at that price. Thankfully the job I eventually got used common sense when offering packages.

In Singapore, engineers were generally well off around 10 years back, however because of imported engineers from India and China, native Singaporean engineers find it hard to meet ends initially. 

Ever wondered why there are so many Nepalis around Dubai these days, some of whose English is barely comprehensible?
Its because they are the cheapest of all,


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## JonStewart87

RafalDXB said:


> JonStewart87...
> ...I'm here two years already with let's say comparable income & I can live comfortably  but not really to make any savings or something...
> If you just want to get some experience and have some fun, that is just enough in my opinion. But don't expect to save anything


Thanks a lot Rafal,
I am truly in this for the experience, and the school puts a good amount away for retirement benefits, so that will be nice in the future.

appreciate the comment! party time!


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## woodlands

Seabee said:


> PS Pamela, Ramesh with his latest information proves the point. From his perspective, the salary being offered is more than three times better than his current salary which he points out is 'above average salary for my experience.'
> 
> As he points out there are 'exaggerated salary estimates in certain previous posts'. He's talking about the reality of his situation.
> 
> Ramesh, you've started a real discussion here! Good luck with whatever you decide.
> 
> (Sorry to put so many separate replies. Each time I post one I find a couple of new posts have got in before me  Signs that I'm a slow typist and this is a busy forum I guess.)


So would u take 60k usd in USA with taxes or 14k aed with zero tax in UAE. Quality of life ( a bit different here), quality of experience (working with semi educated locals sometimes vs generally competent professionals in US), ability to immigrate on a permanent basis later (yes for US, no for UAE). 

Furthermore when he goes back to Bangalore and speaks of "Dubai experience" how do you think people will react... WOW that's a dubai experience dude??

I am yet to come across a local with a brain that functions to 60% of normal capacity. Personal experience. Hence i don't have respect for them...not really...
What's the contribution of this part of world to betterment of human civilization...when was the last time ideas sprang out of this place...its just an obscene place where camel riders became rich....respect?? This is the backwater of human civilization.... 

all this talk of respect for local customs etc. ... I mean we all know what they do to natives down under right...?? Or the violence against Indian students in Oz and the administration working on justifying it all instead of formulating a security response.

How will this guy live on 14k usd i have no idea...most people's rent alone is higher than that. I guess in India he is a part of upper middle class....here he will belong to a much lower strata...why should he accept that?

Ramesh, do this simple math....look at the cost of your current apartment and its location vs what u will be able to afford here and the class of neighbourhood....the expenses for schools etc there and here...trips back home, and most importantly leisure money there and what you will need here....see if you can live amongst the same strata of people with a similar lifestyle.... if its yes pls do come. This country takes away much more than it gives so just be very careful.......


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## Tropicana

woodlands said:


> . I guess in India he is a part of upper middle class....here he will belong to a much lower strata...why should he accept that?
> QUOTE]
> 
> 
> A very important statement. If the OP is single, he will be around middle class here, if he had a family, he would be in the lower fringes of middle class.
> 
> AT the end of the day, neither Seabee nor Woodlands have been to India, so only Ramesh will know how he is living there, and whether he will be able to adjust here.


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## Jynxgirl

woodlands said:


> I am yet to come across a local with a brain that functions to 60% of normal capacity. Personal experience. Hence i don't have respect for them...not really...
> 
> all this talk of respect for local customs etc. ...
> 
> How will this guy live on 14k usd i have no idea...most people's rent alone is higher than that


I have met a few locals and all of them have been overly nice and quite intelligent. All with uk or usa upper education degrees, none under a masters degree. I have met a number of expats here though that seem to think more highly of themselves and their ability then they really should. You might fall in that group from how you are behaving on this forum. 

I dont think you have much respect much other then your own opinion, let alone other peoples customs. 

You might want to get out of the western expat communities and see how a great deal of the people actually live here. A large community doesnt get paid the high dollar amount you seem to think everyone deserves therefore should, and they have to live somewhere. And they most deffinatly do!

And lastly, are you a troll??


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## pamela0810

Wow! You are just the epitome of contradiction, aren't you? You started this discussion claiming to like Dubai (inspite of calling them derogatory terms) and then go ahead and post this, which honestly shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone who is part of this forum as you have been criticising this place from the time you got here.



woodlands said:


> So would u take 60k usd in USA with taxes or 14k aed with zero tax in UAE. Quality of life ( a bit different here), quality of experience (working with semi educated locals sometimes vs generally competent professionals in US), ability to immigrate on a permanent basis later (yes for US, no for UAE)._ - No one is being offered 60k USD, so there really is no point in you even bringing it up._
> 
> Furthermore when he goes back to Bangalore and speaks of "Dubai experience" how do you think people will react... WOW that's a dubai experience dude?? _- Is that why YOU are here? And if this is your attitude, then surely, you expect your people to react the same way, don't you?_
> 
> I am yet to come across a local with a brain that functions to 60% of normal capacity. Personal experience. Hence i don't have respect for them...not really...
> What's the contribution of this part of world to betterment of human civilization...when was the last time ideas sprang out of this place...its just an obscene place where camel riders became rich....respect?? This is the backwater of human civilization...._ - You live here and enjoy a tax free salary. What is your contribution to the betterment of human civilization? _
> 
> all this talk of respect for local customs etc. ... I mean we all know what they do to natives down under right...?? Or the violence against Indian students in Oz and the administration working on justifying it all instead of formulating a security response. _- How is this even related to Ramesh's original question??_
> 
> How will this guy live on 14k usd i have no idea...most people's rent alone is higher than that. I guess in India he is a part of upper middle class....here he will belong to a much lower strata...why should he accept that? _- He's a single guy. I think he will do just fine. He may not save as much as a single guy earning AED 30K a month, but he will still enjoy a more convenient lifestyle than back home._
> 
> Ramesh, do this simple math....look at the cost of your current apartment and its location vs what u will be able to afford here and the class of neighbourhood....the expenses for schools etc there and here...trips back home, and most importantly leisure money there and what you will need here....see if you can live amongst the same strata of people with a similar lifestyle.... if its yes pls do come. This country takes away much more than it gives so just be very careful......._- You really need to open your eyes and look around you. Not everyone in this world can afford to eat Kouign amanns for breakfast every day. As a single Indian guy, he will be able to enjoy a much better quality of life in Dubai with AED 14K than the AED 5K that he earns back home._


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## pamela0810

Jynxgirl said:


> I have met a few locals and all of them have been overly nice and quite intelligent. All with uk or usa upper education degrees, none under a masters degree. I have met a number of expats here though that seem to think more highly of themselves and their ability then they really should. You might fall in that group from how you are behaving on this forum.
> 
> I dont think you have much respect much other then your own opinion, let alone other peoples customs.
> 
> You might want to get out of the western expat communities and see how a great deal of the people actually live here. A large community doesnt get paid the high dollar amount you seem to think everyone deserves therefore should, and they have to live somewhere. And they most deffinatly do!
> 
> And lastly, are you a troll??



He's blissful in his own ignorance Jynxy. I am actually starting to feel bad for the guy now.


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## Tropicana

I advice the OP to check this bit of news.
An Indian foreman was *terminated , deported, and banned *from the country *all for asking for an increase in *salary !

And when he returned a year later, his previous employer tried to ban him again even though the courts turned the request down.

So, I dont know what your proposed comopany is like, but do note, companies have the right to deport and ban you for 1 year for asking for a raise !

No fresh entry ban after the first one expires

_
No fresh entry ban after the first one expires Adel Arafa 

21 July 2010, The Federal Supreme Court on Wednesday ruled that companies cannot slap a fresh ban on former workers after their old ban expires.

The law allows workers to re-enter the country using a new visa after the end of the first ban, the court said. The ruling came following a case filed by an Indian foreman, 29, against a contracting company where he worked for seven years.

According to the employee, *his employer terminated his service because he demanded an increase in salary. The employer then cancelled his residency and imposed a one-year ban on him from the Department of Naturalization and Residency. He was later deported to his country.*
After the expiry of the ban, a maintenance firm issued an employment permit for him through which he entered the country and passed the iris scan test.

His new employer stamped his passport with a residency visa, but his former employer filed a malicious lawsuit demanding imposition of a new one-year ban on him.

The old company also sought his arrest and deportation despite his legal status.

The worker asked the court to intervene and stop his former employer from harassing him at his new work site. He also demanded suitable compensation for the financial and psychological damage the situation had caused him._


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## Tropicana

Jynxgirl said:


> I have met a few locals and all of them have been overly nice and quite intelligent. All with uk or usa upper education degrees, none under a masters degree. QUOTE]
> 
> So you basing an opinion on an entire community based on the few highly educated ones that you met ?
> Maybe woodlands just met the other end of the pole, i.e. ones who arent nice ?
> 
> I have met both types, the ones you talk of as well as the ones woodlands talk of...


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## Jynxgirl

Tropicana said:


> So you basing an opinion on an entire community based on the few highly educated ones that you met ?
> Maybe woodlands just met the other end of the pole, i.e. ones who arent nice ?
> 
> I have met both types, the ones you talk of as well as the ones woodlands talk of...


I dislike this place as a whole as human rights (which this discriminatory case of pay based on nationality goes in line with) and animals rights are atrocious here but as far as individuals, have yet to meet a local who wasnt a overly kind person. To just keep bashing away at this guy who has a great opportunity for him, making a decent wage compared to his home, is just making woody seem like a jackie...


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## Tropicana

Jynxgirl said:


> as far as individuals, have yet to meet a local who wasnt a overly kind person.



Understood, all I am saying is that its "your personal experience". 

You cant judge a whole community through meeting a handful of individuals. 


I am sure these 2 boys were not "overly kind" !

Two arrested for robbery, posing as CID officers


On a related note, I will be politically incorrect, I never met a criminal of African American origin during my time in the US, does it mean there are no criminals of African American origin at all?


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## pamela0810

Could I please ask that we stick to the topic because this discussion seems to be digressing further and further away from it. 
:focus:


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## Mr Rossi

Jynxgirl said:


> And lastly, are you a troll??


He's putting across some concise points, maybe a bit harsh for some but far from trolling.


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## Seabee

Mr Rossi, you beat me to it, I was going to say we'd hijacked Ramesh's thread. He was asking whether he could live on the salary he's been offered and I think he's got some idea now of the costs he'll find here.


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## Trick Daddy

I've been living here for 3 months and my base salary is 14000

My company pays for my car and housing and I only spend about 10k of the 14k each month and a portion of that is wasted on shopping for things I don't need.

I don't drink so my lifestyle saves me money. Movie is 30 AED, popcorn and a pop 30-35 AED. Mc Donalds value meal 18 AED, Fudruckers 40 AED, but I've also spent 400AED on a dinner that was worth the same cost of the others. Basically you can live big or live small the choice is yours

TD


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## Toy Collector

I've been living here for about a year and a half now and i have the same sentiments as Trick Daddy above. It's all in the lifestyle that you choose and what you have going for you back at your home country. 

You can definitely live here with that kind of pay. You can get a studio apartment for 4k AED, yes and maybe even get yourself a car, a cheap one for that matter.

There are people here who survive earning 2.5k - 3k AED a month. Don't ask me how they manage it, but that is a reality here in Dubai. Your 14k is way better if you don't have better options.


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## JonStewart87

I'll be getting 13k Dhs to teach / month and they pay for my apartment in motor city - I plan on buying a nearly-new mazda or like size sedan and living comfortably.. possible?


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## Tropicana

JonStewart87 said:


> I'll be getting 13k Dhs to teach / month and they pay for my apartment in motor city - I plan on buying a nearly-new mazda or like size sedan and living comfortably.. possible?


Yes, as long as you dont have kids. A Mazda 6 will set you back ~2k per month. Also if your commute is long, you may have to pay~800 in fuel every month .


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## sdh080

JonStewart87 said:


> I'll be getting 13k Dhs to teach / month and they pay for my apartment in motor city - I plan on buying a nearly-new mazda or like size sedan and living comfortably.. possible?


Yeah, should be fine, I know loads of teachers on similar packages and they all live pretty comfortably.


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## JonStewart87

thanks guys, 2k/month is definitely in the budget for me, i knew cars would be more expensive per month over there.. i allotted up to about 2,750 max for a car payment, hoping to get the best out of every penny, any advice?


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## sdh080

JonStewart87 said:


> thanks guys, 2k/month is definitely in the budget for me, i knew cars would be more expensive per month over there.. i allotted up to about 2,750 max for a car payment, hoping to get the best out of every penny, any advice?


If you're prepared to pay 2,750, depending on what term of loan you want to take then you'll have your pick from a huge amount of cars.

How far are you likely to be driving on a daily basis?


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## JonStewart87

sdh080 said:


> If you're prepared to pay 2,750, depending on what term of loan you want to take then you'll have your pick from a huge amount of cars.
> 
> How far are you likely to be driving on a daily basis?


from motor city to the new American School Dubai campus, near the Cement Factory/Etisalat building


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## sdh080

JonStewart87 said:


> from motor city to the new American School Dubai campus, near the Cement Factory/Etisalat building


So not too far of a drive each day, you'll pretty much have your pick of cars, the only cars that I'd say are "expensive" here are the German ones.


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## JonStewart87

sdh080 said:


> So not too far of a drive each day, you'll pretty much have your pick of cars, the only cars that I'd say are "expensive" here are the German ones.


Great, thanks! Car, internet, TV - top 3 things to get set up haha


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## sdh080

JonStewart87 said:


> Great, thanks! Car, internet, TV - top 3 things to get set up haha


And not forgetting the Playstation 3.


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## JonStewart87

sdh080 said:


> And not forgetting the Playstation 3.


:nono: First time I have found your advice to be flawed. 360 user here. :clap2:


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## sdh080

JonStewart87 said:


> :nono: First time I have found your advice to be flawed. 360 user here. :clap2:




I was a 360 man in the UK but changed to PS3 when I got here.


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## Andy Capp

What about Wii?????

You need to do brunch on friday....


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## sdh080

Andy Capp said:


> What about Wii?????
> 
> You need to do brunch on friday....


I've got one of them as well but can't say I play it much.

My mate is arriving on Friday afternoon at 5pm, I stupidly agreed to pick him up.


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## Andy Capp

sdh080 said:


> I've got one of them as well but can't say I play it much.
> 
> My mate is arriving on Friday afternoon at 5pm, I stupidly agreed to pick him up.


Grab a cab from outside, bloody hell mate, LAST BRUNCH BEFORE RAMADAN!!!!

Don't you know how important that is??????

(Bloody muslims, trying to spoil our fun cos of some stoopid religious fasting ****e!)


----------



## sdh080

Andy Capp said:


> Grab a cab from outside, bloody hell mate, LAST BRUNCH BEFORE RAMADAN!!!!
> 
> Don't you know how important that is??????
> 
> (Bloody muslims, trying to spoil our fun cos of some stoopid religious fasting ****e!)




I'm supposed to be taking it easy on the old booze front after a hefty few weeks on holiday but I'll see what I can do.


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## JonStewart87

Andy Capp said:


> What about Wii?????
> 
> You need to do brunch on friday....


I'll pick up a Wii from the mall when I arrive, wish I could go to the brunch sounds like a load of fun - arrive 17 august smack in the middle of ramdam :hurt:


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## pamela0810

JonStewart87 said:


> I'll pick up a Wii from the mall when I arrive, wish I could go to the brunch sounds like a load of fun - arrive 17 august smack in the middle of *ramdam* :hurt:


:rofl:  It's Ramadan lol! And don't worry, it only lasts a month and really isn't as bad as everyone is making it out to be. Bars are still open in the evening but on a much quieter scale. The only thing missing will be the Friday brunches because people fast all day.
You could always visit Barracuda, stock up and host some crazy brunches at your place!


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## JonStewart87

hehe I know just an insensitive play on words, pamela


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## pamela0810

Lol! I apologize! Think it's time for my coffee!


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