# Retiring in Spain



## navillus (Apr 14, 2020)

Greetings! My partner and I are looking for as much information as possible about retiring in Spain. I am 47, and my partner is 50, we would be looking at retiring in approx eight years. A little background, we will both have private pensions and will liquidate our main property when we retire. We will keep a small property that we rent out so we can return part of the year to the US while we are settling into living in Spain. We have both traveled to Spain and love the country, we are not beach people and would look at northern Spain to reside, closer to mountains and alpine scenery. 

I am trying the gather as much real (current) information as possible from people that have done what we want to do. Some of the questions I have are as follows:

How much can a couple live on in Spain, not bare-bones, living in a beautiful area (rural, we do not need to be close to a big city)?

How does the health system work? Can we buy-in, and how much does this cost?

Is it easy to establish residency, and is this required if living in Spain 6 months out of the year?

Renting vs. buying a property, any thoughts?

Over the next few years we will travel to Spain to check out different areas, if anyone has suggestions, please let us know.

Thanks, you all for your time and I look forward to hearing from you.


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

Welcome to the forum. Eight years away is a little far to be able to answer your questions reliably, as a lot can change in that space of time and after the current corona virus it's inevitable that Spain (as will other countries) will go through a deep recession and things like taxes will increase, whilst property prices will decrease. So whatever information we can give you must come with the caveat that it is what applies now, not how things may be in 8 years' time.

As you refer to returning to the US, I am assuming that you are US citizens (if you hold an EU member state passport, the rules are different). As non EU citizens, it is not a question of asking us how much a couple needs to live on in Spain - there are immigration rules laying down how much annual income applicants for non lucrative visas (which as early retired people you would need). The figures are based on a multiple of the Spanish minimum salary, and currently for a couple would be €32k per annum. You'd need to obtain the visa from a Spanish consulate in your home country, and demonstrate that you have comprehensive private medical insurance to cover you in Spain when applying. As to how easy the process of obtaining a visa is, we have a number of American members on the forum who have done it so I'm sure they can help you there. Here's an example from the San Francisco Consulate setting out what's needed:-

http://www.exteriores.gob.es/Consul...ularServices/Documents/visas/NonLucrative.pdf


There is currently a scheme called the Convenio Especial whereby, after being legally resident in Spain for at least one year, you can pay into the public health system. It costs €60 per person per month for those aged under 65 and €157 per person per month for those 65 and over, but that does not include the cost of any medications.

If you didn't obtain a residence visa, as a non EU citizen you would only be able to spend 90 days out of every 180 in Spain.

We have had a few discussions on the forum over the years about the pros and cons of buying/renting property, if you use the Search function you will be able to find them. To summarise briefly, those who prefer to rent like the flexibility it offers (if you want to move to a different area or have problems with neighbours or the landlord, you can), fewer responsibilities for maintaining the property, no liability for Spanish inheritance tax if you die and your estate goes to beneficiaries who are not Spanish residents (children in your home country, for example), and often people can afford to rent a property they could not afford to buy. Those who favour buying, on the other hand, like the security of having a roof over their heads which is bought and paid for, the freedom to do what they like to the property (although in Spain we have to obtain licences from the local authority to do most things, even to the interior) and the greater choice of properties (there are many more available to buy than to rent long term). Because of the high taxes involved in buying and selling a property here (as well as the aforementioned recession) never assume that a property can be sold for a profit, so it shouldn't be regarded as an investment.


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## NickZ (Jun 26, 2009)

navillus said:


> How much can a couple live on in Spain, not bare-bones, living in a beautiful area (rural, we do not need to be close to a big city)?
> 
> .


Two problem with this. People have wildly different ideas of bare bone. For some a new car every couple of years is roughing it. For others luxury is much less.

The other problem is rural implies other costs often not obvious ones. A rural home means you need a car . A car needs insurance. You'll need to get drivers license. Best if you both do. The car needs to be maintained etc. Rural properties may not have the best access to things like high speed internet. Many of the cheaper properties in the countrysides are in almost abandoned towns. That can mean few shops to choose from. Little to do. 

In general I doubt you'll find a huge saving over what you'd expect to spend at home. Some things will be cheaper. Others more. Final total will depend on the choices you make. The more native you go the lower the costs would be. If OTOH you expect an American lifestyle (whatever that means to you) you will likely find it more expensive.


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## CltFlyboy (Feb 11, 2020)

For empirical data, I've been using this site to compare what we are used to in the US (I'm in the Southeast) to various places around Spain. This might help give you actual data points to look at. From what we've seen it's a heck of a lot less expensive to live there, even with taxes and other higher cost items taken into account. And in our opinion you can't put a dollar amount on quality of life - which from our experience is much better there.

https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/

Hope this helps!


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## navillus (Apr 14, 2020)

Thank you for the information! I am aware that the situation in Spain is dynamic; however, current information reveals feasibility at this time. I am also a British citizen; however, after Brexit, this does not help me in any way 

Thanks again!


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## navillus (Apr 14, 2020)

*Thanks for the reply Nick Z*



NickZ said:


> Two problem with this. People have wildly different ideas of bare bone. For some a new car every couple of years is roughing it. For others luxury is much less.
> 
> The other problem is rural implies other costs often not obvious ones. A rural home means you need a car . A car needs insurance. You'll need to get drivers license. Best if you both do. The car needs to be maintained etc. Rural properties may not have the best access to things like high speed internet. Many of the cheaper properties in the countrysides are in almost abandoned towns. That can mean few shops to choose from. Little to do.
> 
> In general I doubt you'll find a huge saving over what you'd expect to spend at home. Some things will be cheaper. Others more. Final total will depend on the choices you make. The more native you go the lower the costs would be. If OTOH you expect an American lifestyle (whatever that means to you) you will likely find it more expensive.



The reason one poses these questions is this is a new area of exploration. So do not get caught up on semantics. Of course, I am looking at Spain to maintain a particular lifestyle for longer (also retire earlier for longer). I am a British and American citizen, I have traveled extensively throughout the world, and I am not new to individual countries cultural norms. However, what I am looking for is input based on YOUR experience with the questions I ask, not a discussion of what living well, living rural, or the expenditure choices may mean hypothetically. I am genuinely looking for nuts and bolts information; obviously, I can assume a spectrum either way. After all, this is a forum for knowledge and experience (at least I hope)Thanks for your response.


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## navillus (Apr 14, 2020)

*Interested in your experience.*



CltFlyboy said:


> Posting a link to a great site, have to put in one more post before since I'm new here, sorry for the filler post


Looks like you are an American living in Spain? I am very interested in your experiences. How long have you lived there? How is the cost of living? What area do you live?

I look forward to hearing back from you.


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## navillus (Apr 14, 2020)

*Thank you CltFlyboy*



CltFlyboy said:


> For empirical data, I've been using this site to compare what we are used to in the US (I'm in the Southeast) to various places around Spain. This might help give you actual data points to look at. From what we've seen it's a heck of a lot less expensive to live there, even with taxes and other higher cost items taken into account. And in our opinion you can't put a dollar amount on quality of life - which from our experience is much better there.
> 
> 
> Hope this helps!


Thank you for that honest answer, much appreciated! I will go to the link and look at some of these data points (really appreciate that info). Do you currently live in Spain? If so, how long have you been away from the US?

Thanks again!:clap2:


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

navillus said:


> The reason one poses these questions is this is a new area of exploration. So do not get caught up on semantics. Of course, I am looking at Spain to maintain a particular lifestyle for longer (also retire earlier for longer). I am a British and American citizen, I have traveled extensively throughout the world, and I am not new to individual countries cultural norms. However, what I am looking for is input based on YOUR experience with the questions I ask, not a discussion of what living well, living rural, or the expenditure choices may mean hypothetically. I am genuinely looking for nuts and bolts information; obviously, I can assume a spectrum either way. After all, this is a forum for knowledge and experience (at least I hope)Thanks for your response.


 It's not a question of semantics, it's a question of having more information about what you are looking for so that people on the forum can give you better information. It is indeed a forum based on knowledge and experience which could possibly be of some help to you and others.
You asked for information about different areas...

I have Spanish family living in Bilbao. It's a very pleasant city to live in, easy to get round and in the centre you can actually walk to most places if you have good mobility. Is mobilty a concern of yours or not? It is very conservative in many ways though, which for me is a minus although you can pick and choose your friends to a certain extent. There is a theatre, concerts classical and all kinds of modern sounds, not much original version cinema... Can you speak Spanish or Euskera?
Bilbao is quite an expensive area and nearby is San Sebastian, supposedly one of the most expensive places to live in in Spain. There is beautiful country side all around this area. Are you interested in living in a town, city, village, out in the sticks? That will affect budget
My favourite area in the north of Spain is Asturias. You say you're not beach people, but the beaches in Asturias are really very beautiful. Inland the scenery is also breathtaking. You don't have to do much planning in Asturias to see beauty, but you do need a car to get around. I think I'm right in saying that your US license will not be valid if you live here and you'll need to do the Spanish driving test, something to budget in.
Look at this thread post 9 for some of my ideas of what's to like about Asturias
https://www.expatforum.com/expats/s...ing-spain/1490540-touring-northern-spain.html


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## CltFlyboy (Feb 11, 2020)

navillus said:


> Thank you for that honest answer, much appreciated! I will go to the link and look at some of these data points (really appreciate that info). Do you currently live in Spain? If so, how long have you been away from the US?
> 
> Thanks again!:clap2:


My pleasure - I'm a facts and data guy  Unfortunately I'm not in Spain yet - we're planning to move in the next several years - the forum makes you choose an expat country so i chose where I want to be, a guy can dream for the time being. I'm in the same boat you are, I want to fully understand as much as I can so we make an informed decision as to where, when, and how. I'd be interested in how you progress with your research as well!


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## navillus (Apr 14, 2020)

*Thanks for the information!*



Pesky Wesky said:


> It's not a question of semantics, it's a question of having more information about what you are looking for so that people on the forum can give you better information. It is indeed a forum based on knowledge and experience which could possibly be of some help to you and others.
> You asked for information about different areas...
> 
> I have Spanish family living in Bilbao. It's a very pleasant city to live in, easy to get round and in the centre you can actually walk to most places if you have good mobility. Is mobilty a concern of yours or not? It is very conservative in many ways though, which for me is a minus although you can pick and choose your friends to a certain extent. There is a theatre, concerts classical and all kinds of modern sounds, not much original version cinema... Can you speak Spanish or Euskera?
> ...


We were in Bilbao last year, briefly traveling along the Pyrenees and down the east coast before heading back north to the south of France. Asturias is indeed a gorgeous area, and we will need to look at this area along with Cantabria and surrounding provinces. We want to be rural, we are active and like to mountain bike, kayak, and hike. I do have an EU driving license along with a US license; however, taking a Spanish driving test would be fine if needed. I will check out that link (thank you). Do you know of any local real estate/rental home websites that could provide us an idea of home prices?

Thanks again!:clap2:


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## navillus (Apr 14, 2020)

CltFlyboy said:


> My pleasure - I'm a facts and data guy  Unfortunately I'm not in Spain yet - we're planning to move in the next several years - the forum makes you choose an expat country so i chose where I want to be, a guy can dream for the time being. I'm in the same boat you are, I want to fully understand as much as I can so we make an informed decision as to where, when, and how. I'd be interested in how you progress with your research as well!


Ditto! Looking to understand as much as possible, providing me with new questions and ideas to check out, particularly when we travel to Spain to visit.

Thanks again!


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## Rich & Wendy (May 28, 2018)

One option for residency as I understand it, i!s to buy property for a minimum spend it €500,000, then it is automatic.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Rich & Wendy said:


> One option for residency as I understand it, i!s to buy property for a minimum spend it €500,000, then it is automatic.


Yes, but that's the last thing you want to do in the current economic climate, where property price is expected to drop massively.


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

Joppa said:


> Yes, but that's the last thing you want to do in the current economic climate, where property price is expected to drop massively.


The OP is taliking of retiring here in 8 years time!

Not even the IMF have predicted the economic situation for Spain for 2028 as far as I know.


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## NickZ (Jun 26, 2009)

The things I was thinking about aren't the sort of things the average tourist would notice or even care about.

Think about heating and cooling. Do you expect to keep your home 25C during the winter and 18C during the summer? Or the other way around?

Will your pantry be full of Spanish foods or would you like familiar things from home?

No need to put too fine a point on things. The visa requirements are much higher than what most people live on. The question ends up being very personal past that point. 

BTW I thought the EU was cracking down on all the golden visa/passport schemes?


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## timwip (Feb 27, 2017)

Me, like Pesky, are lovers of Northern Spain. I am an American living in Oviedo and love it. Northern Spain is generally much cleaner than southern Spain as evidenced by this recent study:






As you can see, most of the top cities are along the north coast of Spain.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

timwip said:


> Me, like Pesky, are lovers of Northern Spain. I am an American living in Oviedo and love it. Northern Spain is generally much cleaner than southern Spain as evidenced by this recent study:
> 
> https://youtu.be/oehddDXk5BM
> 
> As you can see, most of the top cities are along the north coast of Spain.


No, As you can see, Most of the cities they looked at, are in Northern Spain which is different.

The examples being shown are not the cleanliness of the place but the dirtiness of the inhabitants.

Our village is kept clean by having a daily collection of basura, plenty of recycling points and residents who care about the cleanliness of their surroundings and sweep the street daily and with regular wash-downs.


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## timwip (Feb 27, 2017)

baldilocks said:


> No, As you can see, Most of the cities they looked at, are in Northern Spain which is different.
> 
> The examples being shown are not the cleanliness of the place but the dirtiness of the inhabitants.
> 
> Our village is kept clean by having a daily collection of basura, plenty of recycling points and residents who care about the cleanliness of their surroundings and sweep the street daily and with regular wash-downs.


No Baldilocks, The study was of 60 cities throughout Spain That list in the videoclip is just the top cities. I am sure that your village is very clean in your view; however, I like to rely on objective evidence as opposed to anecdotal evidence.


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## navillus (Apr 14, 2020)

Joppa said:


> Yes, but that's the last thing you want to do in the current economic climate, where property price is expected to drop massively.


We would hold off on buying until we know that it would be a good fit long term. We would spend our first six months and then evaluate purchasing at that time. Of course, we would be cognizant of the market fluctuations.

Thank you


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## navillus (Apr 14, 2020)

Overandout said:


> The OP is taliking of retiring here in 8 years time!
> 
> Not even the IMF have predicted the economic situation for Spain for 2028 as far as I know.


No one is asking or expecting predictions of the living, economic, or political climate in Spain in 8 years; this is about research. If you have constructive input, it's welcomed, if not, don't waste your time.


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## navillus (Apr 14, 2020)

timwip said:


> Me, like Pesky, are lovers of Northern Spain. I am an American living in Oviedo and love it. Northern Spain is generally much cleaner than southern Spain as evidenced by this recent study:
> 
> https://youtu.be/oehddDXk5BM
> 
> As you can see, most of the top cities are along the north coast of Spain.


We were looking at Oviedo last night! My partner and I are planning on coming out in December to do some research on the northern provinces.

Thanks for the info!


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

navillus said:


> No one is asking or expecting predictions of the living, economic, or political climate in Spain in 8 years; this is about research. If you have constructive input, it's welcomed, if not, don't waste your time.


 By the same token it could be said if you don't want people's opinions, don't ask on an open forum.
Also, the more specific you are in your questions the better your answers will be, even if they give information you don't like or didn't want. I'm pretty sure Over and Out will not be wasting any more of his time.


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## navillus (Apr 14, 2020)

Pesky Wesky said:


> By the same token it could be said if you don't want people's opinions, don't ask on an open forum.
> Also, the more specific you are in your questions the better your answers will be, even if they give information you don't like or didn't want. I'm pretty sure Over and Out will not be wasting any more of his time.


I get you. However, I am looking for information, I do not need the first day of school mentality, it's a forum for me to gain knowledge, I don't need the rest thanks.


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

navillus said:


> No one is asking or expecting predictions of the living, economic, or political climate in Spain in 8 years; this is about research. If you have constructive input, it's welcomed, if not, don't waste your time.


You are right. My post was responding (negatively) to another poster's input which I assumed brought nothing to the points raised in your consultation.
But I should not have assumed that.

I will not waste any more of your time, but please enjoy the forum.

:focus:


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