# Former US resident.



## john2345 (Oct 17, 2018)

My wife worked in the USA for 20 years and came back to London in 1999. She gave back her green card after her return, not sure when, but before 2012 when we met, probably earlier. We are both British citizens, pay UK tax , no foreign accounts except she has an IRA which HMRC is aware of. We are getting into retirement planning.

I think she should have filed form 8854 when she left the USA. I phoned the IRS and they said she shouldn´t do anything unless she gets a notice from them and if they want her they will find us.

Is it possible to file this form for 1999 and would there be any late penalties?

Does the IRS flag a person´s account as no longer a US taxpayer and would they be able to confirm that she´s no longer a US taxpayer?

Is it correct to say that she can´t get pulled back into their tax system because of: 1. tax treaty agreements, 2. she hasn´t been a green card holder for 8 of the last 15 years, 3. she has never had assetts over 2 million USD.

She made social security contributions when she was there and will want to apply for state retirement benefits from the US so I want things to be correct.

I became aware of a potential problem as a result of the Boris Johnson publicity. Fortunately she was born in England and has never been a US citizen. When I say wife we are not actually married.

Any suggestions?


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## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

The best advice in your wife's situation is to simply lay low and wait for further instructions. If and when the IRS thinks they have reason to contact her, they will. (But don't hold your breath.)

Regarding form 8854 (right from the IRS source):


> Purpose of Form. Expatriation tax provisions apply to U.S. citizens who have relinquished their citizenship and long-term residents who have ended their residency (expatriated). *Form 8854 is used by individuals who have expatriated on or after June 4, 2004*.


If your wife returned to London in 1999 she would have relinquished her green card within a year or two (at most) of that. And no, the IRS doesn't have a master list of US taxpayers. Boris Johnson was a fluke because he was actually BORN in the US, and had long been taking advantage of his US citizenship (i.e. passport).

US Social Security won't be a problem. There is a Social Security office at the US Embassy in London. (OK, it's now called the Federal Benefits Office, but it's primarily Social Security) Contact them when she is approaching the age where she is eligible to start drawing benefits and they will fix her up. Lots of non-citizens get US Social Security.
Cheers,
Bev


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## JustLurking (Mar 25, 2015)

Bevdeforges said:


> Regarding form 8854 (right from the IRS source): ...


Although, from another IRS source:


> *Expatriation on or before June 3, 2004*
> The expatriation tax provisions (prior to the AJCA amendments) apply to U.S. citizens who have renounced their citizenship and long-term residents who have ended their U.S. residency for tax purposes, if one of the principal purposes of the action is the avoidance of U.S. taxes. ...
> ...
> Individuals who renounced their U.S. citizenship or terminated their long-term resident status for tax purposes on or before June 3, 2004, must file a Form 8854, Initial and Annual Expatriation Information Statement, and its Instructions, to comply with the notification requirements under IRC 877. For more detailed information refer to Expatriation Tax in Publication 519, U.S. Tax Guide for Aliens.


Predictably, the "more detailed information" referred to above contains no mention at all about pre-2004 expatriation. The year 1999 form 8854 is here, and is quite different to its modern counterpart (note also the lower asset limit, $500k):

https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-prior/i8854--1999.pdf
https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-prior/f8854--1999.pdf

At this point, I wouldn't file anything here. Far from clearing anything up, it is much more likely to simply add confusion. The IRS said not to file, so go with that.


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