# Considering moving back to SA



## DB31 (Aug 15, 2011)

hi there ,
my husband and i have been living in Dubai for past 4 years and now with having a son are considering returning home to be nearer family and friends. Besides that we really want him to grow up they way we did, being able to play outside, being closer to nature and natural beauty and be amongst south african people as well as having grandparents, aunts, uncles, etc around.

However, i'm really worried about our financial future in SA and if we'd be able to provide him with everything he needs, especially in terms of education as he grows up. Before Dubai we used to really struggle to survive from salary to salary but of course at that time we were still very young and stupid with debt, which was a big factor. We've learnt our lesson though and believe that will be a problem again.

What I want to find out from anyone who can advice, is how easy it is to live month to month, covering all your normal expenses and still be able to save, not only for education but also for retirement.

Some info you might need is we're in our late 20's/early 30's, husband is in IT and i'm into adminstrative/secretarial work.

Looking forward to any advice we can get :ranger:


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## travelling-man (Jun 17, 2011)

Prices have increased dramatically here in recent years and an example of that is they recently raised electricity by something like 25% and they've also said we can expect a further 25% next year and the same again, the year after. General grocery prices etc are rising by the week. Of course, this all means that wages/salaries also need to increase and so begins the spiral of inflation and industrial unrest. 10 years ago, RSA had a very cheap cost of living 10 years ago but now it's far closer to European prices.

They're also following the good old tradition of increasingly making new laws that don't work, make life more difficult to people and chokes trade. For example, if I wanted to export a car two years ago, I'd have to supply 2 simple forms. Now it's 7 and six of those have to be obtained from Govt and most Govt departments are as much use as a one legged man at an arse kicking party. 

I'm sure I don't need to remind you of how things are going politically. If Malema ever gets to power, and I reckon he will one day, then you can expect RSA to become another Zimbabwe.

Then (as you say) you have your children to consider. There are good schools here still but quite what they'd do after they leave school is another matter. Jobs for whites are becoming fewer by the year and if they're in short supply now, they'll probably be like hen's teeth a decade from now.

I love RSA but we run our own business, don't seek employment and have no kids here...... however we are being forced to leave because of visa issues and I hope that isn't clouding my judgement. 

That said, when I see the increasing crime rate, strikes and price rises, I'm glad to be going in many ways.

Bearing in mind you have kids, I'd be inclined to either stay where you are or go elsewhere in the world. Africa is wonderful in many ways but I personally can't see it coming right politically or commercially anytime soon.


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## ATLres (May 15, 2011)

Hi DB31,

We are moving back to SA after 12 yrs in the US. Financially I don't think this is a smart move, but having a few more years with my parents are worth way more than money. After all the US Economy is not exactly something to be excited about either! We also have a daughter and I want her to be close to family for a while. We have no family where we live and it is tough to raise a little one without any support. In my opinion going back to SA is not a bad choice, however having a way out if things should change for the worse is probably not a bad idea. I am not sure how the UAE works, but I ended up getting my US citizenship so that I can come back whenever we need to. All my friends in SA are very happy and do financially just fine - I am hoping that would be the case for us as well. I just can't imagine not living in SA ever again! 

All the best for your decision making process. I know it is an emotional one. One thing I would like to add is that I work in relocation and the number of South Africans moving back to SA is really amazing. There is no place like it. (in a good and bad way!  ) That was what finally motivated me to make this decision - I was tired of wishing that it was my move I was planning instead of the client's.


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## DB31 (Aug 15, 2011)

ATLres said:


> Hi DB31,
> 
> We are moving back to SA after 12 yrs in the US. Financially I don't think this is a smart move, but having a few more years with my parents are worth way more than money. After all the US Economy is not exactly something to be excited about either! We also have a daughter and I want her to be close to family for a while. We have no family where we live and it is tough to raise a little one without any support. In my opinion going back to SA is not a bad choice, however having a way out if things should change for the worse is probably not a bad idea. I am not sure how the UAE works, but I ended up getting my US citizenship so that I can come back whenever we need to. All my friends in SA are very happy and do financially just fine - I am hoping that would be the case for us as well. I just can't imagine not living in SA ever again!
> 
> All the best for your decision making process. I know it is an emotional one. One thing I would like to add is that I work in relocation and the number of South Africans moving back to SA is really amazing. There is no place like it. (in a good and bad way!  ) That was what finally motivated me to make this decision - I was tired of wishing that it was my move I was planning instead of the client's.


Thanks for the reply and it's reassuring to know i'm not the only one thinking the way I do. I agree things in SA are not great but still everyone i know manages to make a decent living and be really happy which I also hope will be the case for us.
Good luck with your move, I hope all goes well for you! 
Oh and in UAE there isn't the possibility to EVER get citizenship, so we'll have to think of something else. Anyhow we were not planning on staying here for ever and wanted to move on somewhere else. Lots of planning to do still i'm afraid


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## fromthe hood (Aug 22, 2011)

*My 2 cents on the issue*



ATLres said:


> Hi DB31,
> 
> We are moving back to SA after 12 yrs in the US. Financially I don't think this is a smart move, but having a few more years with my parents are worth way more than money. After all the US Economy is not exactly something to be excited about either! We also have a daughter and I want her to be close to family for a while. We have no family where we live and it is tough to raise a little one without any support. In my opinion going back to SA is not a bad choice, however having a way out if things should change for the worse is probably not a bad idea. I am not sure how the UAE works, but I ended up getting my US citizenship so that I can come back whenever we need to. All my friends in SA are very happy and do financially just fine - I am hoping that would be the case for us as well. I just can't imagine not living in SA ever again!
> 
> All the best for your decision making process. I know it is an emotional one. One thing I would like to add is that I work in relocation and the number of South Africans moving back to SA is really amazing. There is no place like it. (in a good and bad way!  ) That was what finally motivated me to make this decision - I was tired of wishing that it was my move I was planning instead of the client's.




I lived in the U.S. for many years before finnaly going "Home" to The motherland. I trade in curencies and at one time owned real estate in the U.S. It is pretty much over! They are no longer the cash cow and the Big shot they once were. I have 3 friends who have lost just in the real estate market in 3 years what they could live like a king on in SA.(including me) for the rest of their lives. Some people are living in the past and thikn the U.S. is still the wealthiest nation..... Well whatever. but I know this... For what I was paying for a 2 bedroom apt(R14,000 per month), I have a 3 bedroom house 3 minutes from the beech with a view! and a housekeeper, gardener and 2 other structures. BTW, SA has a much more stable currency also. Good luck!!!!


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## Ducass (Aug 4, 2011)

fromthe hood said:


> I lived in the U.S. for many years before finnaly going "Home" to The motherland. I trade in curencies and at one time owned real estate in the U.S. It is pretty much over! They are no longer the cash cow and the Big shot they once were. I have 3 friends who have lost just in the real estate market in 3 years what they could live like a king on in SA.(including me) for the rest of their lives. Some people are living in the past and thikn the U.S. is still the wealthiest nation..... Well whatever. but I know this... For what I was paying for a 2 bedroom apt(R14,000 per month), I have a 3 bedroom house 3 minutes from the beech with a view! and a housekeeper, gardener and 2 other structures. BTW, SA has a much more stable currency also. Good luck!!!!


Try and go somewhere else, if you don't think the problems in the rest of the world are going to effect SA, then you need to think again and it was bad already when I left 2 years ago.


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## cmdsg (Sep 10, 2010)

hello guys, someone can talk about the Farrarmere or northmead area of Benoni city ?
is a good area to live?
thanks


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## DannyBoy (Apr 29, 2009)

fromthe hood said:


> I lived in the U.S. for many years before finnaly going "Home" to The motherland. I trade in curencies and at one time owned real estate in the U.S. It is pretty much over! They are no longer the cash cow and the Big shot they once were. I have 3 friends who have lost just in the real estate market in 3 years what they could live like a king on in SA.(including me) for the rest of their lives. Some people are living in the past and thikn the U.S. is still the wealthiest nation..... ...


Hello,
did you get a job in S.A while you were still in the U.S or did you pack up everything from here (the U.S) and just head back to S.A and then look for work. 
Are you in Joburg?

The reason I ask is that I have been trying to get back to S.A since 2005, but just cannot get any decent job advice. The recruiters tell me that there's a shortage of skilled labor (I'm in I.T - healthcare specialist), but then when I send my resume to them or call them when I visit S.A, I never hear back. Any advice would be appreciated. I still have a job in the U.S,...but for how long I don't know. Things are pretty bad over here. I am seeing American friends losing EVERYTHING and friends from India who have lived here for 15 years returning to India.


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## celeste (Oct 24, 2008)

cmdsg said:


> hello guys, someone can talk about the Farrarmere or northmead area of Benoni city ?
> is a good area to live?
> thanks


I grew up in Northmead Ext 4 and it was a great place - I say a great place because I haven't been back there for many years now. But I still have a lot of friends that still live in the area and they seem to be doing good. If you have kids, I went to Arbor Primary and the friends that still live there send their kids there, so the school hasn't changed.

I loved it there! anything else you want to know about the area drop me an email and I'll help you out


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## DannyBoy (Apr 29, 2009)

ATLres said:


> Hi DB31,
> 
> ........ One thing I would like to add is that I work in relocation and the number of South Africans moving back to SA is really amazing. There is no place like it. (in a good and bad way!  ) That was what finally motivated me to make this decision - I was tired of wishing that it was my move I was planning instead of the client's.


Hello ATLres,

you said you work in relocation. Do you assist people in the U.S moving back to S.A?
If yes, what kind of assistance would you provide?

Thanks
Dan


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## Johanna (Apr 13, 2009)

I moved back to SA after living in the UK for 11 years. It was the right and best thing for me to do and I love being back in SA. I am not blind to the problems that exist in this wonderful country and in all honesty , I do not live in fear. It may be because of where I live, but where ever I go , I find most people extremely friendly and helpful. There is a lot of poverty and I know many people are irritated by car guards, they used to annoy me as well, but after visiting London and paying huge sums of parking fees, I realised that these car guards are merely making a living.
Driving is a huge problem in SA, one has to be very careful and aware of those who share the road with you, most people disregard all traffic rules and some drivers become very intimidating when they want to pass you..... I just stay calm and ignore such people.


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## Daxk (Jan 20, 2008)

Johanna said:


> I moved back to SA after living in the UK for 11 years. It was the right and best thing for me to do and I love being back in SA. I am not blind to the problems that exist in this wonderful country and in all honesty , I do not live in fear. It may be because of where I live, but where ever I go , I find most people extremely friendly and helpful. There is a lot of poverty and I know many people are irritated by car guards, they used to annoy me as well, but after visiting London and paying huge sums of parking fees, I realised that these car guards are merely making a living.
> Driving is a huge problem in SA, one has to be very careful and aware of those who share the road with you, most people disregard all traffic rules and some drivers become very intimidating when they want to pass you..... I just stay calm and ignore such people.


That Flashing Blue light I gave you not working?


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## Johanna (Apr 13, 2009)

daxk said:


> that flashing blue light i gave you not working?



no!!!!!


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## Halo (May 8, 2008)

Some people are a glutton for punishment.....


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## Johanna (Apr 13, 2009)

Halo said:


> Some people are a glutton for punishment.....



 How true, my heartfelt sympathies to you Halo! 


Went to our local market Saturday market this morning, glorious sunshine, no *criminals* ... lots of people walking, talking, eating ( no wonder we are now considered the third fattest country in the world --- only beat by the USA and UK...


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## DannyBoy (Apr 29, 2009)

Johanna said:


> I moved back to SA after living in the UK for 11 years. It was the right and best thing for me to do and I love being back in SA. I am not blind to the problems that exist in this wonderful country and in all honesty , I do not live in fear. It may be because of where I live, but where ever I go , I find most people extremely friendly and helpful.....


Hello Johanna,

when you returned after 11 years and the initial excitement of being back in S.A had worn off, was there a major period of adjustment you had to make to adapt to the "New South Africa" or is it all hype and things haven't really changed that much?
Are you in Johannesburg?
Was it easy for you to get work or did you get work prior to moving back. Also if you are a "40 something" white male, are job prospects very limited?
My healthcare IT skills are in good demand here in the U.S, but I found a lack of interest in my skills when I contacted recruiters in S.A.
It seemed like they were doing me a favour just looking at my CV and I never heard back from them.

What has happened in my situation, besides the fear of my job eventually being outsourced to India, is that my younger sister died of esophagus cancer and my 70 year old mom is looking after the 3 children (aged 3 to 11). My sisters husband is not the "family type" and has taken a job in Angola. My mom is sick and for this reason I am feeling pressured to go back to Cape Town and help with the youngsters, in case something happens to my mom (heart issues etc.).
But it's pointless even thinking of going back if I can't get a job there and have the long term prospect of living in a cardboard box under the Plumstead bridge.

That is my current predicament.


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## Halo (May 8, 2008)

DannyBoy : That's awful mate.... Best you sent those $'s over - You will be of no use under the Plumstead bridge....

Joanna: 3rd...? Sorry But OZ is now Number 1.... For fat people.


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## Johanna (Apr 13, 2009)

DannyBoy said:


> Hello Johanna,
> 
> when you returned after 11 years and the initial excitement of being back in S.A had worn off, was there a major period of adjustment you had to make to adapt to the "New South Africa" or is it all hype and things haven't really changed that much?
> Are you in Johannesburg?
> ...


Danny, like any move, the initial one was very exciting, especially as we were also building a new house. We had lots to keep us very busy and occupied. There was no real adjustment, we came for a five week visit annually, so prices,lifestyle, etc was not something new to us..... yes , it is more expensive to live here than what it was 10 years ago, but it is the same all over the world. The "New South Africa" is not all that new anymore... 
I am not a male, I do part time work and no, not 40 anymore!!! 

Do not live in Johannesburg!


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## Halo (May 8, 2008)

Johanna : What brought you to SA?


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## Johanna (Apr 13, 2009)

Halo said:


> Johanna : What brought you to SA?


 An Airbus!


What do you really mean, why did I return?


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## Johanna (Apr 13, 2009)

Halo said:


> Johanna : What brought you to SA?


I am a Saffer by birth! Lived here most of my life.


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## Halo (May 8, 2008)

Johanna said:


> An Airbus!
> 
> 
> What do you really mean, why did I return?


Return ? Yes......
Hold On.... Are you a Saffar who just spent time in the UK?


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## Johanna (Apr 13, 2009)

Halo said:


> Return ? Yes......
> Hold On.... Are you a Saffar who just spent time in the UK?


 Yip, as the OP's original posting was about "returning to SA", I replied as someone who returned.

I recall from previous postings by you that you are also a Saffer , you just moved around a bit!


I returned because I wanted to not because I had to.


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## Halo (May 8, 2008)

Aaaaaaaaaaaaa, makes sense now. Professionals from the 1st world don't move to SA..... Unless its to retire.

Nuff said.... you fit the usual mold - Though I was going nuts.


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## Johanna (Apr 13, 2009)

Halo said:


> Aaaaaaaaaaaaa, makes sense now. Professionals from the 1st world don't move to SA..... Unless its to retire.
> 
> Nuff said.... you fit the usual mold - Though I was going nuts.


I am not retired Halo!


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## Halo (May 8, 2008)

But you are an ex-saffar (not originally from Wales) who moved back due to - > Pick one

1. Family
2. Not being able to integrate into Europe (only hanging with other Saffars)
3. Having to clean your own house


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## Johanna (Apr 13, 2009)

Halo said:


> But you are an ex-saffar (not originally from Wales) who moved back due to - > Pick one
> 
> 1. Family
> 2. Not being able to integrate into Europe (only hanging with other Saffars)
> 3. Having to clean your own house



Main reason, better quality of life ( you may not think so, but I do)
I have family here, but also in the UK.
I integrated very well, thanks.... even went out with the staff when I was there in September of this year.
House cleaning? I paid a cleaner and somebody to iron my clothes in the UK/.


Do you honestly believe that nobody wants to live in SA?
You may not want to and it is your right, so please, let's not start a debate about the reasons why I returned! 
Let us go :focus:


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## Halo (May 8, 2008)

Not at all.... but if your quality of life in the UK was worse then SA, then hell's teeth..... Sure there are people that miss the new Bles Bridges 12" but those reasons given are for the 90+% (see it hit a nerve)

Once you embrace the culture..... enjoy all what Europe and the 1st world has to offer its almost impossible to go back..... So many cool places to live safely.
(laughed at paying a cleaner - we just did it ourselves)

(you can always watch re-runs of noot-vir-noot)


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## Johanna (Apr 13, 2009)

Halo said:


> Not at all.... but if your quality of life in the UK was worse then SA, then hell's teeth..... Sure there are people that miss the new Bles Bridges 12" but those reasons given are for the 90+% (see it hit a nerve)
> 
> Once you embrace the culture..... enjoy all what Europe and the 1st world has to offer its almost impossible to go back..... So many cool places to live safely.
> (laughed at paying a cleaner - we just did it ourselves)
> ...



? ?

How can you decide for others?

Why did you leave the UK for Oz?

Could you not embrace the European culture ?


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## Halo (May 8, 2008)

Nope.... Just wanted to bring my kids up in a warm climate....... by the beach

Still got a house there and will go back eventually. (also gives the kids a future something Kids in SA don't have unless they are uber smart to get out)

PS I don't decide - I just state the obvious.


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## Stevan (Jun 30, 2009)

Johanna said:


> How true, my heartfelt sympathies to you Halo!
> 
> 
> Went to our local market Saturday market this morning, glorious sunshine, no *criminals* ... lots of people walking, talking, eating ( no wonder we are now considered the third fattest country in the world --- only beat by the USA and UK...


it was 5th fattest till i moved here. but i am doing my bit to help get the number one spot for south africa.

but seriously i spent yesterday afternoon walking along margate sea front watching the whales and dolphins, never got mugged or raped once. then the heavens opened and got soaked, whos stupid idea was it to leave the sunroff cracked to keep the car cool.

yes yes i could have, i was lucky, watch out next time i wont be so lucky, in every other country in the world sombody would have given me a free ice cream and carried me back to the car under an umbrela when it rained. i live in a third world country so i walked and bought my own ice cream.


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## Johanna (Apr 13, 2009)

Stevan said:


> it was 5th fattest till i moved here. but i am doing my bit to help get the number one spot for south africa.
> 
> but seriously i spent yesterday afternoon walking along margate sea front watching the whales and dolphins, never got mugged or raped once. then the heavens opened and got soaked, whos stupid idea was it to leave the sunroff cracked to keep the car cool.
> 
> yes yes i could have, i was lucky, watch out next time i wont be so lucky, in every other country in the world sombody would have given me a free ice cream and carried me back to the car under an umbrela when it rained. i live in a third world country so i walked and bought my own ice cream.






Which whales and dolphins did you watch, those on the beach of those in the water?


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## Stevan (Jun 30, 2009)

Johanna said:


> Which whale and dolphins did you watch, those on the beach of those in the water?


did sit on the beech for a while but the life guards kept rolling me into the water and dragging me out to sea with thier jet ski. then a vet arrived and said i must be sick if i kept swimming back to the beach and he was going to put me down decieded to retreat to steers to work on the no.1 spot for south africa.


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## bokbabe (Nov 28, 2010)

Halo said:


> Not at all.... but if your quality of life in the UK was worse then SA, then hell's teeth..... Sure there are people that miss the new Bles Bridges 12" but those reasons given are for the 90+% (see it hit a nerve)
> 
> Once you embrace the culture..... enjoy all what Europe and the 1st world has to offer its almost impossible to go back..... So many cool places to live safely.
> (laughed at paying a cleaner - we just did it ourselves)
> ...


Shoo Halo, you're kinda asking for a debate with this one  Surely "all what Europe has to offer" includes the naff weather that saw you scuttling off to the warmer climes of Oz??

I was just saying to my hubby this morning, on the way back from the Dept of Home Affairs (where we were collecting his Permanent Residence) that, in our nearly 7 months back in SA, we have done more than we did in maybe 2-3 years in our sleepy Devon Village. You seem to forget that the amount of "culture" that there is to "embrace", depends alot upon where you live in Europe and, before you say that we could have moved anywhere else in the World instead of SA, I would like to add a no 4 onto your list:

1. Family
2. Not being able to integrate into Europe (only hanging with other Saffars)
3. Having to clean your own house 
4. OPPORTUNITIES

It may surprise you but, the opportunities here in SA were better for Hubby and myself than anywhere else. Sure the Family (and even the maid) are an added bonus....but they were not the crux of our decision.

As Johanna said, you are entitled to your opinion but please do not assume that EVERYONE who has ever lived in Europe and the 1st World has, or even CAN experience what you have, which has made you feel the way you do about coming back here (ie: that it's almost impossible to go back).


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## Daxk (Jan 20, 2008)

Strange thing that.
In Sa I started and built 5 Businesses, 4 were extremely successful, the second was a steep learning Curve that taught me humility.
I also got paid to help build a Businessthat was valued at ZAR1 million in 1993 and has recently changed hands at ZAR70 million and is now a generic name.

Since I moved to Ireland I have started and built two unique businesses, both of which are successful and am in the process of starting a third.

SA IS a very easy place to make money.
It Does have less regulation or rather it has less enforcement of Regulation

but the problem you have with a business in SA is the future.
you have no guarantee of its stability.
I can guarantee you that Ireland will not have a Malema or a Mugabe type dictator.
I can guarantee that its unlikely to have a Military Coup.
That if a Govt screws up or a Minister is caught with his fingers in the till, that there is a change.

Yes, the GFC has changed things here, but if you want to be humbled... take your best financial position in SA and then do an Currency exchange calculation.... its a sobering excercise.


Tonight was Halloween, the streets were full of witches and ghosts and ghoblins and fairies.... and parents wearing Visivests and carrying torches as the kids tricked and treated their way around.
Maybe you can do it where you live, but not in Midrand not in Centurion.


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## Halo (May 8, 2008)

Same here, kids and missus walked the streets getting sweets and having a good time.... Aaaaaaaaaa

Bokbabe : I have explained why I am in OZ - Is it not clear?


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## bokbabe (Nov 28, 2010)

Halo said:


> Same here, kids and missus walked the streets getting sweets and having a good time.... Aaaaaaaaaa
> 
> Bokbabe : I have explained why I am in OZ - Is it not clear?


Yup.... the weather!! "Just wanted to bring my kids up in a warm climate....... by the beach" which proves my point that the naff European weather got to you!!! 

BTW Dakx, I live in Midrand and I work in Midrand, in a business that has been going for the past 11 years, through good times and bad. Last night I ran out of sweets, there were so many kids coming by.... you don't live here anymore, so please refrain from making comments like that about Midrand and Centurion....


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## Daxk (Jan 20, 2008)

bokbabe said:


> Yup.... the weather!! "Just wanted to bring my kids up in a warm climate....... by the beach" which proves my point that the naff European weather got to you!!!
> 
> BTW Dakx, I live in Midrand and I work in Midrand, in a business that has been going for the past 11 years, through good times and bad. Last night I ran out of sweets, there were so many kids coming by.... you don't live here anymore, so please refrain from making comments like that about Midrand and Centurion....


if things have improved that much in the 11 months since I was last there, great!
great!!I am happy.

So there were kids and parents wandering around the streets of Vorna Valley, Carlswald through to Noordwyk/Countryview??

not just in the Secure Estates?


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## Saartjie (Mar 1, 2010)

bokbabe said:


> Yup.... the weather!! "Just wanted to bring my kids up in a warm climate....... by the beach" which proves my point that the naff European weather got to you!!!
> 
> BTW Dakx, I live in Midrand and I work in Midrand, in a business that has been going for the past 11 years, through good times and bad. Last night I ran out of sweets, there were so many kids coming by.... you don't live here anymore, so please refrain from making comments like that about Midrand and Centurion....


Well said bokbabe. We also had lots of kids coming by our house last night. And no, it is not a secured estate, we live in Kensington Johannesburg.


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## Daxk (Jan 20, 2008)

Bokbabe, just had a quick look at eblockwatch's Incidents reported.,if you would like I can post specific incidents in the Shebeen dating back two months regerding Hi-jackings and armed Robberies in Midrand?

See Last night was busy.
Midrand Distorter this morning, "A Kyalami resident narrowly escaped death trying to intervene in a burglary at his home."


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## Daxk (Jan 20, 2008)

Saartjie said:


> Well said bokbabe. We also had lots of kids coming by our house last night. And no, it is not a secured estate, we live in Kensington Johannesburg.


Believe me, I am honestly very very glad to hear that people are able to have a normal life again.
if Bokbabe says that Kids can live normally its a great step forward, especially for Midrand.
I bought my first house there in 1979 and still own property there.

It was something I commented on when last there less than a year ago, you saw kids at the mall and the Boulders, it was Summer, there were no kids in the suburbs other than in cars.


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## Saartjie (Mar 1, 2010)

Daxk said:


> Believe me, I am honestly very very glad to hear that people are able to have a normal life again.
> if Bokbabe says that Kids can live normally its a great step forward, especially for Midrand.
> I bought my first house there in 1979 and still own property there.
> 
> It was something I commented on when last there less than a year ago, you saw kids at the mall and the Boulders, it was Summer, there were no kids in the suburbs other than in cars.


I guess its different in different places. Some suburbs 'works' better than others. I obviously cannot speak for any other places than the ones that I have experienced but for our part it feels like a nice safe place to live where people seem happy and not afraid.


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## cmdsg (Sep 10, 2010)

It is very sad to see people who are not living in South Africa can not accept that those who live there are happy. Europe is bankrupt africa is the future, but those who live there will have to accept black people in power
those who do not accept this please stay away, shut up or respect the life choices of others


for those who chose South Africa as home, have a lot of luck and be happy.

sorry my english


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## Daxk (Jan 20, 2008)

cmdsg said:


> It is very sad to see people who are not living in South Africa can not accept that those who live there are happy. Europe is bankrupt africa is the future, but those who live there will have to accept black people in power
> those who do not accept this please stay away, shut up or respect the life choices of others
> 
> 
> ...


Nao Fas Mal, cmdsg, 

are you aware that the Govt of SA is almost exactly what its population is?
9% white,17% (IIRC) Coloured,so many Asian, the only percentage they dont have is 1% Chinese.

It is therefore not a Black Govt but a one of the same Racial Demographic as the Country is.

(amazing how anyone critical MUST be racist)


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## Halo (May 8, 2008)

bokbabe said:


> Yup.... the weather!! "Just wanted to bring my kids up in a warm climate....... by the beach" which proves my point that the naff European weather got to you!!!


Not at all but there are more options for kids...... I'm giving them options :ranger: If I never had kids I would never have left.... (even though I will most likely return)

PS Weather is never a reason to move somewhere - That's idiotic.


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## Halo (May 8, 2008)

cmdsg said:


> for those who chose South Africa as home, have a lot of luck and be happy.


You will need it... Luck that is....


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## saffer (Nov 2, 2011)

cmdsg said:


> *It is very sad to see people who are not living in South Africa can not accept that those who live there are happy. *Europe is bankrupt africa is the future, but those who live there will have to accept black people in power
> those who do not accept this please stay away, shut up or respect the life choices of others


I don't understand why they do it. Schadenfreude ?


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## Stevan (Jun 30, 2009)

> PS Weather is never a reason to move somewhere - That's idiotic


ask expats in most warm countries what made them move from uk and i bet weather is well up on thier list.

me and my family now spend most of our time outside in fresh air not hidding inside with the central heating on. my children now have a far more healthy lifstyle than in uk.

and as for the "Idiotic" remark, just re-enforces the point i made on another thread. another thread desending into a stupid name calling and point scoring match. i wonder how big this forum would be if people did not get so fed up with this sort of thing and leave. i detest overly moderated forums but i think the time is comming here where moderatores will need to get extremly tough.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Stevan said:


> ask expats in most warm countries what made them move from uk and i bet weather is well up on thier list.
> 
> me and my family now spend most of our time outside in fresh air not hidding inside with the central heating on. my children now have a far more healthy lifstyle than in uk.
> 
> and as for the "Idiotic" remark, just re-enforces the point i made on another thread. another thread desending into a stupid name calling and point scoring match. i wonder how big this forum would be if people did not get so fed up with this sort of thing and leave. i detest overly moderated forums but i think the time is comming here where moderatores will need to get extremly tough.



Everyone has a right to their opinion and everyone must accept that there will be others who disagree with them. A bit of discussion is fine, but name calling those who disagree, becoming arrogant and an over determination to have the last word just spoils it! We have one little chap who comes on here regularly under various different names and he only comes to start a row and keeps nibbling away at various posts and posters til he has!! That isnt responsible, nor does it help his cause. So he usually gets banned - til he starts up again LOL!!

Jo xxx


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## saffer (Nov 2, 2011)

Stevan said:


> ask expats in most warm countries what made them move from uk and i bet weather is well up on thier list.
> 
> me and my family now spend most of our time outside in fresh air not hidding inside with the central heating on. my children now have a far more healthy lifstyle than in uk.
> 
> and as for the "Idiotic" remark, just re-enforces the point i made on another thread. another thread desending into a stupid name calling and point scoring match. i wonder how big this forum would be if people did not get so fed up with this sort of thing and leave. i detest overly moderated forums but i think the time is comming here where moderatores will need to get extremly tough.


They are very tough. They just seem to find some animals more equal than others. Certain posters are allowed to make nasty remarks and insults so long as they tow the line of selling the message that S.A is a hell hole. 

Others who do not actually engage in personal insults and post a lot of rational facts to temper the alarmist exageratted statements made here are constantly banned because apparently they are "argumentative"(don't tow the line with "S.A is a hell hole" )I can't think what is less argumentative or "nasty" about the folks who jump on every positive thread to insult everyone and imply they are naive and stupid and aren't allowed to have their own opinions. Maybe someone can explain it to me how certain posters (as demonstrated in the last few threads and had a lot of other positive expats who actually live here pointing it out) do not seek to drag everything down into a negative space ?

What's so superior about that kind of spiteful behaviour ?

If you must ban the ones who insist on constantly showing the positive (or at least the middle ground) then at least be constistant and ban the ones whose only agenda is to show the negative. Is that so much to ask of the mods ?


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## Johanna (Apr 13, 2009)

As long as the replies or posts are not inflammatory, racist, become personal attacks, etc. I will not delete or ban a poster.

I do want to ask you people to stick to the topic, do not start personal vendettas or ( like in the past ;-) .... poster knows whom I'm referring to!) start quoting irrelevant statistics or websites!


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

saffer said:


> They are very tough. They just seem to find some animals more equal than others. Certain posters are allowed to make nasty remarks and insults so long as they tow the line of selling the message that S.A is a hell hole.
> 
> Others who do not actually engage in personal insults and post a lot of rational facts to temper the alarmist exageratted statements made here are constantly banned because apparently they are "argumentative"(don't tow the line with "S.A is a hell hole" )I can't think what is less argumentative or "nasty" about the folks who jump on every positive thread to insult everyone and imply they are naive and stupid and aren't allowed to have their own opinions. Maybe someone can explain it to me how certain posters (as demonstrated in the last few threads and had a lot of other positive expats who actually live here pointing it out) do not seek to drag everything down into a negative space ?
> 
> ...


The SA mod is south African and lives in SA and would probably agree with your sentiments, just not your delivery. 

what you are asking is that we ban all those who disagree with your view point - be it life in SA, life in the UK, life on the moon... the subject doesnt matter! Those who keep nibbling away until they cause an argument and it gets offensive are those who get banned.

It is also against forum rules to question moderation on the forum. If you have an issue, then you need to contact either the mod privately or the forum administrator. So no more on the sunject of moderation on here

Jo


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## saffer (Nov 2, 2011)

Johanna said:


> As long as the replies or posts are not inflammatory, racist, become personal attacks, etc. I will not delete or ban a poster.
> 
> I do want to ask you people to stick to the topic, do not start personal vendettas or ( like in the past ;-) .... poster knows whom I'm referring to!) start quoting irrelevant statistics or websites!


Ok. I can live with that rule. But can I ask that in return you do not allow people to simple make stuff up for the sake of scaremongering ?

There are PLENTY of such examples floating around here and the internet and sadly it is almost ex south africans who make this stuff up and spread these urban myths around. Also for them to not take things out of context and suggest because something is prevelent in hillbrow it is also as likely to happen to an expat living in cape town ? 

Because all we have in the defence against someone trying to manipulate someone with fear using falsehoods, distortions and exagerattions is to bombard them with the actual facts not so ?


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

saffer said:


> Because all we have in the defence against someone trying to manipulate someone with fear using falsehoods, distortions and exagerattions is to bombard them with the actual facts not so ?


People comment on their experiences and feelings - its a forum, not a list of statistics!


Jo


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## Johanna (Apr 13, 2009)

saffer said:


> Ok. I can live with that rule. But can I ask that in return you do not allow people to simple make stuff up for the sake of scaremongering ?
> 
> There are PLENTY of such examples floating around here. Also for them to not take things out of context and suggest because someone is prevelent in hillbrow it is also as likely to happen in camps bay ?
> 
> Because all we have in the defence against someone trying to manipulate someone with fear using falsehoods, distortions and exagerattions is to bombard them with the actual facts not so ?


saffer, those who are negative have good reason to be so, they were either victims of violent crime or has had someone close to them involved in violent crime. 

Let's all behave like adults!


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