# What SUV to buy?



## SmallPie (Aug 2, 2015)

Hi Guys!

I'm moving to Dubai in a couple of weeks and I want to buy a used SUV given this is the land of big cars.

My budget is 150K AED and from what I've been told, I can get about a 2 year old Audi Q7 for that much. Still wanted to check with this forum on what would be the most recommended SUV to buy.
What I have top of mind is
1. Audi Q7
2. Porche Cayenne - I heard that to get it in 150K, it will have to be older than 2 years and high kms clocked. Is that something to worry about?
3. BMW X6

What would you guys recommend? I've driven a sedan all my life hence new to the world of SUVs

Cheers!


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## The Rascal (Aug 6, 2014)

Land Rover. best 4x4xfar.


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## LesFroggitts (Dec 30, 2013)

There are more saloons on the roads than SUVs - so hardly the land of big cars. Especially with the recent 25% increase in fuel costs and pricing that is now market driven (i.e. up to the vendors to price rather than the government).


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## garywhite (Mar 28, 2015)

Not here long myself and whilst renting a hire car since arriving, I will be buying an SUV in the next month or so, so I’ve been doing my research. Back home I have owned a BMW X6 and my last 2 cars have been Cayenne's. 2012 onward Cayenne's are brilliant and as Rascal said, the later model Land Rovers are exceptional. However, a couple of things to seriously consider;

1) I’ve gone right off buying a second hand car in Dubai. When it comes to second hand cars in the UAE its still cowboy country with very few reliable reporting mechanisms in place to clearly understand the history of the vehicle (e.g.; accidents, servicing, driver history, etc.). Cars here, including my renter, are driven within an inch of their life, you have to on the roads here to survive! This means excessive engine wear, excessive brake wear, tough on transmissions, etc., etc. Also as mentioned in previous forums, we're in the desert and a lot of SUV's venture off road quite regularly and get smashed through the sand dunes. Also understand the difference between GCC vehicles and USA delivered vehicles, the price can vary greatly.

2. The level of vehicle you are considering are expensive to maintain. General servicing and parts are not cheap. Back in Australia, take your Cayenne to a Porsche dealer for a service and expect to pay AED1000 just for the Porsche recommended oil for an oil change. They have soft compound tyres that last about 25-30,000 k's, probably less over here with the hotter/harsher conditions. At 30,000 k's my Cayenne needed brakes and brake rotors (rotors can’t be machined like the old days, have to be replaced), bang another AED10,0000. If you need engine work or transmission work done, you’ll probably need a bank loan!!! Can’t imagine it will be any cheaper in Dubai?

If you’re going to spend AED150,000 for a second hand prestige SUV like you mentioned, I think you’ll really struggle to get something genuine under 2-3 years old, it will be out of factory warrantee and will certainly have high K’s. In my opinion, you may be buying into a heap of expense not so far down the track! I get it, you’re in Dubai the land of dreams and you want the prestige badge under your backside. My advice, for AED150,000 you can get a brand new Ford Edge, Toyota Prado, Mitsubishi Pajero or something of that ilk, with 3 years warranty and servicing thrown in. You wont look back, save your pennies and then buy your brand new prestige SUV. Good luck.


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## Mr Rossi (May 16, 2009)

^^^^ Sage advice

Unless you know the proper history of the car (eg a work collegue or neighbour) and seen the car everyday for the last two years, I'd avoid any of the models you mention unless you have extremely strong links with a mechanic.

Pajero - 110k, leaves you 40k for the savings pot. A Prado should come in perfectly around your budget. Slightly less glamorous but without the world of hurt either.


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## Froglet (May 7, 2014)

garywhite said:


> Not here long myself and whilst renting a hire car since arriving, I will be buying an SUV in the next month or so, so I’ve been doing my research. Back home I have owned a BMW X6 and my last 2 cars have been Cayenne's. 2012 onward Cayenne's are brilliant and as Rascal said, the later model Land Rovers are exceptional. However, a couple of things to seriously consider;
> 
> 1) I’ve gone right off buying a second hand car in Dubai. When it comes to second hand cars in the UAE its still cowboy country with very few reliable reporting mechanisms in place to clearly understand the history of the vehicle (e.g.; accidents, servicing, driver history, etc.). Cars here, including my renter, are driven within an inch of their life, you have to on the roads here to survive! This means excessive engine wear, excessive brake wear, tough on transmissions, etc., etc. Also as mentioned in previous forums, we're in the desert and a lot of SUV's venture off road quite regularly and get smashed through the sand dunes. Also understand the difference between GCC vehicles and USA delivered vehicles, the price can vary greatly.
> 
> ...


I agree with this fully.

A budget of 150k for the car the OP wants is not a lot. Buying used cars (especially German, sports and/or expensive) need to be very thoroughly checked at a pre-purchase inspection (PPI). If you don't do this and you end up buying a lemon, repairs can be quite expensive...

We bought a used car that fits the above three characteristics (German, sports and expensive) and we had it put through a very extensive PPI where they checked the entire car. They also checked the depth of the paint with a special tool to see if any panels had been repainted... We found out the car was in great shape on every aspect and decided to purchase. No regrets and driven about 5,000km so far...

Although a PPI is just part of your homework, the car should have been serviced properly, complete history available etc etc. Only then is it safe to go ahead with buying it.


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## The Rascal (Aug 6, 2014)

Found just the car for you, keep it and it'll increase in value.

Here


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## A.Abbass (Jun 28, 2014)

I have 2 points;

The Audi Q7 has an incompetent A/C, a very big disadvantage in the gulf region. Even Audi themselves will tell you that.

If my budget is only 150K, I would never buy a Porsche. Try to ask about the maintenance fees first.


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## Edino (Sep 22, 2013)

SmallPie said:


> Hi Guys!
> 
> I'm moving to Dubai in a couple of weeks and I want to buy a used SUV given this is the land of big cars.
> 
> ...


150K on these type of cars would be the worst type of investment you can do; you need a higher budget to buy a decent one. These type of cars should only be purchased with several years of warranty and service package on them. And note as well that running cost is very high; a new set of tires for these cars can set you back between 10K and 20K, depending on the tire size and brand (as I found out with my BMW).

As recommended by others, its better to go for Ford Explorer or Edge, or Nissan, Toyota etc with your budget.


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## Gavtek (Aug 23, 2009)

For what it's worth, I bought a brand new Prado and sold it after 2 and a half years (with 35k on the clock). The difference between what I paid for it and what I got from selling it worked out at 950 Dhs per month in depreciation. Compare that with what you'd pay to rent a base Yaris.

That said, if you're concerned about re-sale value of whatever car you want to buy, try and buy the "full option" package if you can. The amount of time wasters I had who would either offer me something silly or just walk away in disgust because I did not have leather seats and a sunroof (and why would anyone in their right mind actually want that in Dubai anyway?) was astounding. "I cannot have car that is not full option, unacceptable!"


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## cfposi (Jun 12, 2015)

Gavtek said:


> For what it's worth, I bought a brand new Prado and sold it after 2 and a half years (with 35k on the clock). The difference between what I paid for it and what I got from selling it worked out at 950 Dhs per month in depreciation. Compare that with what you'd pay to rent a base Yaris.


Is there a good way to estimate depreciation on a new car? I'm thinking of buying a new car but am not sure what my budget should be. Loans aren't a problem, but I don't want to over-borrow. Any tips on calculating an initial budget if you're aiming to sell the car in 2 years?


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## Gavtek (Aug 23, 2009)

Any Toyota/Nissan with a V6 engine and above, Mitsubishi Pajero with decent spec and any Lexus should have the best resale value/

If you only want to keep it for 2 years, I'd suggest buying something that's already 1/2 years old but came with 5 years warranty when new. It should still be in good condition and you'll take less of a hit when you sell it than you would with a new one.


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## TallyHo (Aug 21, 2011)

Mazda has pretty decent CX-5 and CX-9 and full options are well under your budget and they're throwing in 150K warranty and up to 60K free servicing. Really not bad! 

I've had "nice" cars in the past and the spell always wears off after a few months. You only drive a "nice" car (European luxury brand) for the following reasons:

1. You have more money than you know what to do with and you buy the car out of laziness. 

2. You're a snob and are buying the brand not the car.

3. You genuinely appreciate and love fine cars and happily put up with the maintenance and repair costs as a luxury German car is indeed a marvellous piece of engineering. 

For a luxury car, the Prado is easily the most cost effective car you can buy in Dubai with possibly the best resale value. It is also the most un-luxury of all luxury cars with an utterly unremarkable and bog-standard interior that belongs in a cheap family sedan. Toyota gets away with it because South Asians have a fetish for Prados that beggars belief.


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## pepecik (Sep 5, 2014)

audi Q7


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## TallyHo (Aug 21, 2011)

Gavtek summarises it pretty well.

A thousand a month for a popular midrange to luxury Japanese model.

Actual car ownership cost will be around 1250-1500 a month once you factor in insurance and any replacements/tyres not covered by the warranty. This assumes free servicing.

I had a friend who bought a brand new Pajero and kept full accounts on the car's expenses and when he sold it after four years with approximately 80k on the clock, the total ownership cost worked out to 1250 a month, including depreciation, insurance, post-warranty servicing/repairs, replacing the tyres and registration costs. 

But if you buy brand new and sell in a year, you will lose more than 12K in depreciation. It's probably around the second year mark that it starts averaging 1K a month in depreciation + operating costs. 

German/European cars have steeper depreciation. I'd say the monthly costs/depreciation/losses works out to about 2,000. Some models are less susceptible to losses than others. Volvos take huge hits for peculiar reasons. GTIs less so. 



cfposi said:


> Is there a good way to estimate depreciation on a new car? I'm thinking of buying a new car but am not sure what my budget should be. Loans aren't a problem, but I don't want to over-borrow. Any tips on calculating an initial budget if you're aiming to sell the car in 2 years?


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## Mclovin oo7 (Sep 25, 2012)

TallyHo said:


> Gavtek summarises it pretty well.
> 
> I had a friend who bought a brand new Pajero and kept full accounts on the car's expenses and when he sold it after four years with approximately 80k on the clock, the total ownership cost worked out to 1250 a month, including depreciation, insurance, post-warranty servicing/repairs, replacing the tyres and registration costs.


TallyHo,

I am in a similar situation but I think, the ownership cost is much higher than 1250.

I bought a Pajero with full options in June 2013 and will sell it in July 2016 when I return home. First year insurance and up to 20K warranty was covered in the price and I bought additional 60K warranty for AED 5000. I had to pay for the insurance twice - about AED 5000.

So for three years, the cost would be 123500+5500+5000 = 134000. I am not adding the repair cost for the third year.

I am not sure how much I would get, but lets assume I get 60000 for this 2013 Pajero with 90K clicks on it, my spend would be 74000 for three years. Which is about 2000 per month.

Maybe, three years Vs four years make huge difference?


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## TallyHo (Aug 21, 2011)

If I remember correctly he paid 100K for his Pajero, a mid range model. Sold it for 60K. 

Whatever the numbers were it was just about 40K apart. His free servicing lasted three years and he said he never had to use the warranty, only paying for battery changes, tyres and brake pads. 

My guess is that you bought a fully loaded Pajero and you won't recoup as much back as a midrange model does relative to the initial purchase price, especially with relatively high mileage for a three year old car. The algorithm is never perfect. 



Mclovin oo7 said:


> TallyHo,
> 
> I am in a similar situation but I think, the ownership cost is much higher than 1250.
> 
> ...


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## Mclovin oo7 (Sep 25, 2012)

TallyHo said:


> If I remember correctly he paid 100K for his Pajero, a mid range model. Sold it for 60K.
> 
> Whatever the numbers were it was just about 40K apart. His free servicing lasted three years and he said he never had to use the warranty, only paying for battery changes, tyres and brake pads.
> 
> My guess is that you bought a fully loaded Pajero and you won't recoup as much back as a midrange model does relative to the initial purchase price, especially with relatively high mileage for a three year old car. The algorithm is never perfect.


:heh:

I was hoping that my calculations were wrong and I could save some more money. Whatever I get at the end by selling the car, that would be saving.


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## mjdevans (Oct 4, 2009)

How about the JGC, should be able to get a v8 1 yr old for say 140-150k?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## chestnut (Apr 1, 2013)

Interesting discussion.

Please allow me to side-track: Could someone please enlighten me on what "full option" means?

To my way of thinking it basically means that any options that were available for the model we bought and that the vehicle has every possible gadget/feature possible.... 

However when I look on Dubizzle and see basic models of cars with "full option" I am confused... e.g a Volvo XC90 at "Comfort" specification (a vehicle I was looking at) "with full option" would not have cooling seats or memory seats or similar which come only with higher spec vehicles.

I seems to me that "full options" is just something that is bandied around and, furthermore, is hard to check.

Any opinions/advice would be welcomed.

Cheers

D.


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## Edino (Sep 22, 2013)

chestnut said:


> Interesting discussion.
> 
> Please allow me to side-track: Could someone please enlighten me on what "full option" means?
> 
> ...



Its just a sales term on Dubbizle; just like "no accidents" eg. If we have to believe dubizzle, only clean cars that have never been in an accident are advertised there; we all know that is not the case.

The specs can make quiet a difference in pricing on a car, also on used cars. Best is to research the different grades that the car sold with. Sometimes they have here 3 grades: Basic, Mid and top level; the pricing difference can be substantial. For instance, a new Ford Explorer could be bought for around 120kaed in basic trim, but the top of line goes for 220kaed which has every conceivable option; huge price difference...


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## Gavtek (Aug 23, 2009)

It's not like it is in Europe where you can specify individual options on your new car and customise it to your exact specification. Here they come pre-loaded with options as the man above mentions, basic/mid/full option.

A lot of people in Dubai think not owning the full option model means they are not manly. Even if full option came with a bear trap on the driver's seat, they'd still rather have that than have a mid-option sitting on their drive. And these people make up 95% of the people who will contact you when you try to sell your car.


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## A.Abbass (Jun 28, 2014)

Very true, the resale process relies mainly on whether your car is fully loaded or not (or number 1 as many who deal in the used market name it).


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## rahzaa (May 2, 2012)

Interesting information! i didn't know full option is that big an issue. 

I guess if you buy used "full option" then you will selling a one as well. 

Any input to what happens to the resale value if you don't get it serviced at dealership? of course the selling price will go down, but by how much? If you pay 15K each year at Porsche dealer compared to 5K at some garage shop then that is 10K difference. Let's say you sell car after 4 yrs, would it be more than 40K difference in the value of car just because you didn't get it serviced at Porsche dealership. Hard to believe.


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## WaveAfterWave (Jul 22, 2015)

Toyota land cruiser.


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## A.Abbass (Jun 28, 2014)

rahzaa said:


> Interesting information! i didn't know full option is that big an issue.
> 
> I guess if you buy used "full option" then you will selling a one as well.
> 
> Any input to what happens to the resale value if you don't get it serviced at dealership? of course the selling price will go down, but by how much? If you pay 15K each year at Porsche dealer compared to 5K at some garage shop then that is 10K difference. Let's say you sell car after 4 yrs, would it be more than 40K difference in the value of car just because you didn't get it serviced at Porsche dealership. Hard to believe.


Most cars come new with service packages, particularly european cars for the same concern of high maintenance fees. After the warranty period ends, and most probably the service package does, those who bought new luxury cars will likely sell it.

I don't think someone who bought a used Porsche will bother to service at the dealership.

The problem with dealership service for new cars is not just the costs, or the resale value but would be losing warranty imho.


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## TallyHo (Aug 21, 2011)

You do get more from the resale if the car is full option.

But you pay more for the full option at the onset, so it's generally a moot point in my perspective. 

If you have a popular model or a Japanese model you will always be able to sell the car easily. 



rahzaa said:


> Interesting information! i didn't know full option is that big an issue.
> 
> I guess if you buy used "full option" then you will selling a one as well.
> 
> Any input to what happens to the resale value if you don't get it serviced at dealership? of course the selling price will go down, but by how much? If you pay 15K each year at Porsche dealer compared to 5K at some garage shop then that is 10K difference. Let's say you sell car after 4 yrs, would it be more than 40K difference in the value of car just because you didn't get it serviced at Porsche dealership. Hard to believe.


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## Simey (Dec 4, 2012)

A.Abbass said:


> Most cars come new with service packages, particularly european cars for the same concern of high maintenance fees. After the warranty period ends, and most probably the service package does, those who bought new luxury cars will likely sell it.
> 
> I don't think someone who bought a used Porsche will bother to service at the dealership.
> 
> The problem with dealership service for new cars is not just the costs, or the resale value but would be losing warranty imho.


I'm not aware that any new Porsche comes with a service package. They come with a warranty, but that doesn't cover routine servicing. Fortunately, the service intervals are quite long. 

During the warranty period, pretty much any Porsche will have been serviced by the authorized dealer. If you don't, your warranty is in jeopardy. 

The same goes for an extended warranty, which can be purchased from Porsche. Keeping up with routine maintenance by an authorized dealer is a requirement to keep the warranty valid. If you let maintenance slip they will make you catch up and conduct a very thorough inspection (including fixing everything) before they will sell you a warranty. 

Once the warranty expires, there are pretty much two well-respected places in Dubai to get a Porsche worked on - and one of those is the authorized dealer. Buyers who know what they are doing will look for service records from one of those two companies. 

I'd be very leery of buying a Porsche or similar car where the buyer has scrimped on routine maintenance. They are reliable cars, but they need proper maintenance from someone who knows what they are doing.


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## Gavtek (Aug 23, 2009)

Yep, Porsche made me change the brand new tyres to Porsche-approved tyres before they'd let me extend the warranty.


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## rahzaa (May 2, 2012)

Simey said:


> I'm not aware that any new Porsche comes with a service package. They come with a warranty, but that doesn't cover routine servicing. Fortunately, the service intervals are quite long.
> 
> During the warranty period, pretty much any Porsche will have been serviced by the authorized dealer. If you don't, your warranty is in jeopardy.
> 
> ...


I believe you have to get it serviced every 15,000 kms? How much do you pay usually and what does the service include? Thanks!


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## rahzaa (May 2, 2012)

Gavtek said:


> Yep, Porsche made me change the brand new tyres to Porsche-approved tyres before they'd let me extend the warranty.


How much extension did you get and for how much? Thanks!


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## Gavtek (Aug 23, 2009)

2 years, and can't remember. I think it was AED 10k for the 2 years.


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## Simey (Dec 4, 2012)

rahzaa said:


> I believe you have to get it serviced every 15,000 kms? How much do you pay usually and what does the service include? Thanks!


I don't recall the intervals offhand but there is both a KM component and an age of car component. You should get the car serviced when it hits the earlier of the KM or the age.

Services come in broadly two or the flavors depending on which interval you arrive at. Basically, there are major and minor services. Minor is a glorified oil change and not expensive. The major is a bit more. Brakes etc you should do when needed anyway. 

All this is model dependent. If you have a specific model in mind, why not just call up the dealer and talk to them to get the specifics? 

Btw there are a lot of conditions to the warranty. You can google to find a copy and I would take a look at the fine print.


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## A.Abbass (Jun 28, 2014)

Simey said:


> I'm not aware that any new Porsche comes with a service package. They come with a warranty, but that doesn't cover routine servicing. Fortunately, the service intervals are quite long.
> 
> During the warranty period, pretty much any Porsche will have been serviced by the authorized dealer. If you don't, your warranty is in jeopardy.
> 
> ...


If you buy a Porsche now, you are eligible for 5 years/105,000 KM porsche service package, 4 year warranty & 1 year insurance. They will tell you it's a (limited offer) but actually this is ongoing all the time.

I visited Audi, BMW & Mercedes and they all offer similar gifts. Otherwise, many will be reluctant on buying these cars in the GCC. Jaguar also offered one of my friends the same package, though I didn't visit them in person.

Extended warranty is also the norm these days, I don't see anyone giving less than 5 years for luxury cars.


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## A.Abbass (Jun 28, 2014)

rahzaa said:


> I believe you have to get it serviced every 15,000 kms? How much do you pay usually and what does the service include? Thanks!


I drive an Infiniti, their website has a detailed schedule of all due services till 200K mileage with the complete price list. I am sure Porsche would have a similar thing ?


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## Edino (Sep 22, 2013)

A.Abbass said:


> I drive an Infiniti, their website has a detailed schedule of all due services till 200K mileage with the complete price list. I am sure Porsche would have a similar thing ?


My BMW came with the 5 year ultimate service package, full warranty and 1st year insurance. I would never have bought such a complicated and high performance car without it. So far, its year 3 now, I have had no problem what so ever. The only cost is tires and insurance going forward. I have not been able to figure out what my "real" service intervals are; because so far BMW contacted me when my car is due for service (1st was at 10000km, the following was at 12000km; apparently they got that information trough the internet connection (connected drive) that monitors the status of my ride.


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## Simey (Dec 4, 2012)

The thing about warranties and I expect prepaid maintenance plans is that they are a bit of a double edged sword. This of course is the case everywhere, not just here. 

You get peace of mind, which is good. 

But you also get locked into a relationship with a dealer who has a built in financial incentive to do the absolute minimum and who inwardly groans every time you walk in the door. I have had more pleasant experiences dealing with independent knowledgable shops who actually want my custom. 

I have had more pleasant experiences dealing with independent knowledgable shops who actually want my custom. Also, I like to modify cars a bit, which is a problem with a warranty but no problem with an independent. However, I did get the extended warranty on my 997 Turbo (risk of boom is a bit higher with one of those). Of course, because I got the warranty, nothing significant has ever broken (so far). 

I'm not sure what I would do if I were in an older Cayenne, except maybe check out the VW Touareg instead - it's virtually the same car.


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## Edino (Sep 22, 2013)

Simey said:


> ............. an older Cayenne, except maybe check out the VW Touareg instead - it's virtually the same car.


They maybe build on the same platform, but the experience and drive is very different. Its a bit like saying an apple and pear are the same because they are both fruits... but they taste very different!


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## TallyHo (Aug 21, 2011)

One's a car for social climbing housewives who aren't as rich as they'd like to be.

The other's a car that tells the world how small _it _is.



Edino said:


> They maybe build on the same platform, but the experience and drive is very different. Its a bit like saying an apple and pear are the same because they are both fruits... but they taste very different!


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## Stevesolar (Dec 21, 2012)

Edino said:


> They maybe build on the same platform, but the experience and drive is very different. Its a bit like saying an apple and pear are the same because they are both fruits... but they taste very different!


Q7 is also same platform and even more difference between a Cayenne and a Q7!


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## edward222 (Jan 30, 2015)

Since you havent try SUV's yet,
try toyota fortuner instead.


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## Mclovin oo7 (Sep 25, 2012)

edward222 said:


> Since you havent try SUV's yet,
> try toyota fortuner instead.


Probably the worst pickup truck ever....


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## Froglet (May 7, 2014)

Mclovin oo7 said:


> Probably the worst pickup truck ever....


I don't think a Fortuner is a pickup. You're confused with the Hilux


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## The Rascal (Aug 6, 2014)

Froglet said:


> I don't think a Fortuner is a pickup. You're confused with the Hilux


Which is very probably the best pick up truck you can buy - remember when Top Gear tried to destroy one.


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## bourneagain (May 17, 2015)

Froglet said:


> I agree with this fully.
> 
> A budget of 150k for the car the OP wants is not a lot. Buying used cars (especially German, sports and/or expensive) need to be very thoroughly checked at a pre-purchase inspection (PPI). If you don't do this and you end up buying a lemon, repairs can be quite expensive...
> 
> ...



hi can you recommend the ppi company you used for this pls


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## Felixtoo2 (Jan 16, 2009)

If it's a Porsche the best place for a ppi is ARM out in the Green Community.


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## edward222 (Jan 30, 2015)

Mclovin oo7 said:


> Probably the worst pickup truck ever....


hhhmm i dont think so.


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## edward222 (Jan 30, 2015)

Froglet said:


> I don't think a Fortuner is a pickup. You're confused with the Hilux


Agree, he miss read my post i guess. :noidea:


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## Major Tom (Jul 19, 2015)

just following up, what's the after sales service like at say Ford and Toyota, compared to say Land Rover and Porsche?


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## Roxtec Blue (Jan 14, 2013)

Major Tom said:


> just following up, what's the after sales service like at say Ford and Toyota, compared to say Land Rover and Porsche?


Having either owned or currently own each of these brands all are pretty cr*p. Only stayed to ensure warranties. Ford and LR are the same company. The Taurus & LR4 were sold prior to the end of their warranties as unreliable & abysmal service. Both the Toyota and Porsche went to independents as soon as they were out of warranty & glad I did. Currently use Alex Renner Motors (ARM) in the Green Community for the Porsche who put the main dealer to shame. Must be pretty good as the Porsche owners Club UAE Chairman sends his cars there and there was a very nice 1956 Ferrari 250GT there at the last service . Prices are good. Work warranted and genuine parts. I believe The Rascal has a good LR contacts.


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## Major Tom (Jul 19, 2015)

Thanks, I'd heard of ARM for Porsche (as I'm thinking about a second hand 911 for personal transport), but it seems that the rear admiral would still like to heave herself around in an SUV (and we have a couple of Discoverys in the family so they're a known evil). I have only stayed with the franchised dealers for as long as I have to, but even then, you end up shopping around for a good one with a service guy you can build up a relationship with so that you can at least try to stop getting ripped off. More recently I have only used independents.


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## Major Tom (Jul 19, 2015)

PS any good used/second hand/pre-loved websites other than dubizzle in which all the cars are perfect, 400bhp+, driven only on every second Friday by lady driver etc.?


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## Froglet (May 7, 2014)

Major Tom said:


> PS any good used/second hand/pre-loved websites other than dubizzle in which all the cars are perfect, 400bhp+, driven only on every second Friday by lady driver etc.?


I'm not really sure if lady driver is a good thing...


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## Froglet (May 7, 2014)

bourneagain said:


> hi can you recommend the ppi company you used for this pls


Bit late to reply, but we brought ours to Deutsche Technik. Ask for Josh (he is the owner)


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