# Introductions for a newbie and schools in Madrid for 9&11 yo



## alroco (Dec 9, 2013)

Hello, I'm new here and will have lots of questions, so please be patient with me!  My husband is currently discussing a new position with his company, which would involve moving to Spain (Madrid) for 3 years. We have the advantage that my husband is from Spain, so the language, culture, etc won't be a huge problem (at least for him), but we still have many questions and hurdles.

Some background is that I am an American citizen (born in the US), my husband is a Spanish citizen with a US green card (for now... we are being advised by an immigration attorney that he should become a US citizen before we move to Spain), and our 2 children have dual citizenship (US & Spain). My husband has family and friends in Spain, mostly in Madrid. He has been in the US for 15 years, and we've been married for 14 years. As of now, we plan to return to the US after 3 years in Spain, however since we travel so much to Spain for pleasure and we may retire there, we've seriously considered buying property there. I speak very basic Spanish (can understand more than I speak) and our kids speak almost no Spanish.

The first question that I have is finding schools in Madrid for our children. They will be ages 9 and 11 when we move and will be in the US grades 4 & 6. I see there are several international schools in Madrid to consider. Although US schools don't have the best reputation right now (please no Georgia jokes), the school system we are in now is fairly competitive and our children are excellent students. Considering that we will move back to the US when our oldest will be entering high school, I want to make sure that the school they attend in Madrid will have a curriculum that will be transferable back to the US system (i.e. they shouldn't have to repeat any classes). Plus there are several magnet schools in our area that I think they could get into if we weren't moving away, so I would like them to be able to get into those schools when we return. My only other wish is that they learn Spanish well also (silly maybe, but I've heard of international schools that mostly speak English, so I want to be clear on that).

What international schools do you recommend in Madrid that are competitive, well-respected, challenging, etc, and why? Also, are there schools to avoid and why?

Gracias!


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

alroco said:


> Hello, I'm new here and will have lots of questions, so please be patient with me!  My husband is currently discussing a new position with his company, which would involve moving to Spain (Madrid) for 3 years. We have the advantage that my husband is from Spain, so the language, culture, etc won't be a huge problem (at least for him), but we still have many questions and hurdles.
> 
> Some background is that I am an American citizen (born in the US), my husband is a Spanish citizen with a US green card (for now... we are being advised by an immigration attorney that he should become a US citizen before we move to Spain), and our 2 children have dual citizenship (US & Spain). My husband has family and friends in Spain, mostly in Madrid. He has been in the US for 15 years, and we've been married for 14 years. As of now, we plan to return to the US after 3 years in Spain, however since we travel so much to Spain for pleasure and we may retire there, we've seriously considered buying property there. I speak very basic Spanish (can understand more than I speak) and our kids speak almost no Spanish.
> 
> ...


:welcome:

I can't personally recommend specific schools - but the only way to come even close to an easy transition when you return to the US, would be for the children to attend an American school. They at least would follow the same curriculum.

other 'International' schools would almost certainly follow the UK curriculum

yes, they would be taught mainly in English, but all International schools have, by law, to teach a certain number of hours of/in Spanish, so they should learn Spanish, although they might not become fluent - that would depend more upon the mix of children at the school & how much time they spend in the company of Spanish speakers, speaking Spanish


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

I agree with what xabia has said and therefore, according to this
American Schools in Spain | Embassy of the United States Spain
you have a choice of 2, one in La Moraleja, a swanky area in the outskirts to the north of the city, and one in the equally swanky Aravaca, in the north west outskirts of the city. I don't know anything about the reputations of these schools which probably means that their both OK and it's up to you to choose which one over the other.


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## Chopera (Apr 22, 2013)

The one in La Moraleja is International College Spain. It is possibly the most expensive school in Madrid and teaches the International Baccalaureate (IB) right the way through, i.e. at every year. It is highly international and has a good reputation, and I imagine a lot of diplomats send their kids there. 

The IB is different to the US curriculum but from the IB website there appear to be 28 schools in Georgia that teach it:

International Baccalaureate

I'm afraid I can't help much on the The American School of Madrid. All things being equal I'd tend to go for that one though, since I imagine it to be more American and therefore easier for you and your kids to settle in to.

If you consider a British college then not only will they follow the British curriculum but you'll find that most of the kids are in fact Spanish, and will speak entirely in Spanish outside of class. This maybe another barrier for your kids.


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## alroco (Dec 9, 2013)

Thank you for the quick responses and nice welcome! That is good to hear because those are the 2 schools we've been looking at so far (the International College Spain and The American School). I was leaning toward the International College because of their IB program (Chopera, you're right, and that's one of the magnet schools in my area that I would like to get them in eventually). I guess I need to see the difference between a US and UK curriculum to see if it matters when we return.


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## angil (Sep 24, 2012)

I took my son out of an IB school to attend an American curriculum school during our time in South Korea. The American school was of a high standard (lot of 'tiger mothers' to keep the teachers on their toes!). The curriculum was tangible and basic. Lots of emphasis on textbook learning. We are from the UK. 
I really don't rate the IB PYP (Primary Years Programme) or the IB MYP (Middle Years Programme). By definition it is a programme (framework) and not a curriculum. It is my understanding that it is up to the individual school to devise a curriculum within this framework. 
In theory giving them the flexibility to use all of the best bits from various curriculums. But that takes planning, strong management & experienced well trained staff. 
& there is very little difference between the British National Curriculum my son is being taught from now, and the American Curriculum he was taught from previously. Other than the Social Studies lessons! The IB was off the scale in a direction I didn't recognise!


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## alroco (Dec 9, 2013)

Thank you -- that was very useful! What I'm getting from your answer is that you didn't see much of a difference in the 2 programs (UK vs. US), so I shouldn't worry too much about that, is that right? It would most likely depend on the school and its culture to determine if we like how/what they are teaching and if my children would be happy and thrive there. 

Not sure what to think about the IB program, but in the IB school near us one of the requirements for admission is "qualified IB transfer student" or an incoming freshman. I suppose my oldest would be both and it might give her an advantage to be in an IB program elsewhere. 

Please let me know if there's any other advice you can give me regarding how to choose a school. I'm hoping to visit sometime soon, however my mother is having serious health issues and she's in another state, which is difficult to handle at the same time. 

Cheers!


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## angil (Sep 24, 2012)

At your children's age I honestly don't think what country the curriculum comes from matters (obviously we are talking about English as the language of instruction). My kids have attended International schools with American, British, International & no curriculum! Not once have they been apparently out of their depth or miles behind. If I felt things were really going sour that year I would pick up the pieces at home (I have home schooled in the past - my daughter part time & my son full time for 3 months just before we left Korea).
My daughter did well in her IGCSE which she took in Korea (UK exam course age 14-16), and she is handling A levels ok here in Spain (UK University entrance exam course 16-18). 
My son doesn't like school although he is doing much better here academically (he's not miraculously brighter! I just think the standards are more realistic).
What I would say is not once have I ever thought I was getting value for money at any school my children have attended for the education and facilities on offer. (International schools are over priced - we were paying 60% more in Korea than we do in Spain). I do believe in many cases my children would have received a better education at a 'free school' anywhere in the UK. The trouble is lack of choice, competition and quite often lack of governance.
BUT what my children have gained by living overseas and experiencing the world at such a young age is priceless. 
Okay my advice from my mistakes! 
Find out if the school is accredited and if so with what organisation. The CIS (Council of International Schools) have assisted me in the past. The American School will probably be with WASC or something similar. 
See what after school programmes they have. Are they free and do the teachers run them. Are they recreational or just homework clubs. That, in my opinion, is a good guide to see what kind of teachers they have, who, in turn will make or break the culture of a school. My children's current school is dire in that dept, enough said but my kids are older so it doesn't really matter now. The 'nicer' of my children's International elementary schools had lots of fun after school activities run by the teachers, free of charge! Had an extended family feel and when you are overseas that can be invaluable. 
Go with your gut instinct don't let anyone sell you the school. I haven't met a Principal yet who couldn't 'sell sand to Arabs!'. They are all missing their vocation in the sales market in my opinion!!
Best of luck. Your children will gain tonnes from their adventure so don't get too bogged down with the whole school bit (not yet!).


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## Chopera (Apr 22, 2013)

angil said:


> ...
> What I would say is not once have I ever thought I was getting value for money at any school my children have attended for the education and facilities on offer. (International schools are over priced - we were paying 60% more in Korea than we do in Spain). I do believe in many cases my children would have received a better education at a 'free school' anywhere in the UK. The trouble is lack of choice, competition and quite often lack of governance.
> ...


This is my issue with the International Schools in Madrid - their main selling point is that everything is taught in English, and that is what most Spanish parents are paying for - they want their kids to be bilingual. However if your kids speak native English anyway it doesn't seem such good value to pay around €1000/month (which I know is cheap by International standards) even if the qualifications are more recognised internationally than their Spanish equivalents. From what I can tell, many teachers at international schools only hang around for a year or two as well, and the schools are constantly recruiting from a relatively small pool of applicants who actually want to teach their subject in Spain. And some of the teachers that hang around longer seem to do so through choice rather than merit. It seems a matter of pot luck as to whether your children will actually get a good teacher or not.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Chopera said:


> TFrom what I can tell, many teachers at international schools only hang around for a year or two as well, and the schools are constantly recruiting from a relatively small pool of applicants who actually want to teach their subject in Spain. And some of the teachers that hang around longer seem to do so through choice rather than merit. It seems a matter of pot luck as to whether your children will actually get a good teacher or not.


And as in state schools teachers are sent all over the place and not according to the needs of the schools, there's no guarantee of good education anywhere. A state school can have wonderful teachers one year and get rave reviews from parent, but 2 years later you may find that 50% or more of the staff have been moved on! I have nephews in private schools and the parents freely admit that they're only there so that they can become bilingual. The actual facilities and teaching standards vary enormously and may or may not be great/ terrible.


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## Chopera (Apr 22, 2013)

Pesky Wesky said:


> And as in state schools teachers are sent all over the place and not according to the needs of the schools, there's no guarantee of good education anywhere. A state school can have wonderful teachers one year and get rave reviews from parent, but 2 years later you may find that 50% or more of the staff have been moved on! I have nephews in private schools and the parents freely admit that they're only there so that they can become bilingual. The actual facilities and teaching standards vary enormously and may or may not be great/ terrible.


True, but at least state schools are free. Maybe with concertados you get the best of both worlds? Somebody suggested recently that the teachers coming through in the Spanish state education system are probably of very high quality these days, since there is so much competition for places. Not sure if that ncessarily follows though.


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## alroco (Dec 9, 2013)

I'm not sure if I'm reassured or not... LOL! So it sounds like I shouldn't worry about the curriculum, which is good because I hate getting caught up in the technicalities. As long as my kids are being challenged, I'm fine.

Angil, you hit on another of my concerns -- activities. My children are very involved in activities here and I really hope they find activities there that they are interested in. Unfortunately my children aren't very interested in team sports, which is typical in schools, but I hope they'll join if that's what is offered. My oldest likes robotics and chess, while my youngest likes cheerleading (competitive).

The part that I don't like is that it sounds like most of the instruction is in English? I guess in general it's okay so that they're not overwhelmed with everything in Spanish, but I really want them to pick up Spanish too. And it sounds like the teachers aren't there for a long period of time? :-( 

Maybe I need to come up with a list of questions to ask when we go to visit...

- How long have the teachers been at this school?
- How much instruction will they get in Spanish or another language?
- What after school activities are offered? What is the cost? Who runs the activities?

Any others?


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## angil (Sep 24, 2012)

My son, if pushed, will state basketball as 'his' sport! As we (me and his dad!) are from the North East of England generally football and black and white stripes would be playing a bigger part! Hey ho!!
My daughter loved ballet and gymnastics (one offered as an after school activity the other she did at a Korean dance academy). My son did boxing! in Korea, while others opted for a watered down version of Taekwondo! His choice! He loved Rocky from being a tot! and loved his ex Golden Gloves champion trainer (not a word of English did he speak and my son spoke no Korean but some how they got by!). 
Your kids will be fine. Get a private Spanish teacher if you don't think it is happening quick enough at school. At the minute my son is being taught French & Spanish quite badly, & he is a beginner in both languages! I'll be amazed if he leaves here competent in either! 
An awful lot of International School teachers do use it as a way of seeing the World. Staying in one school (country) for the duration of their 1 or 2 year contract. That doesn't necessarily make them, or the school, a poor choice. But getting back to the structure of the IB if you have a constant flow or teachers then you need a strong curriculum for continuity. The IB that I have experienced does not offer that.
I have thought of another question! Ask about an active PTA and Student council. The school my children attend seem to prefer the parents at a 'safe distance'! & do not have an active PTA or Class Parent or Student Council. First time I have ever encountered this.


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