# Streamlined filing - DIY? or get help?



## daniel_paris (Apr 30, 2020)

Greetings all,
This question is to those who have done their own expat tax filings, or have used outside help, or who can otherwise offer advice based on your experience.

Quick background:
I have been in Europe for over 20 years and have not filed any tax returns for the last 10+ years. This was not out of "willfull" evasion, but rather because I stopped having any US-related income in 2008/9 and therefore did not need to file. So I thought.

I am a dual citizen and have family - and assets - in the US, so renunciation is not a realistic path for me even though I don't plan to return to the US. I do not have any US-generated income, but I do have interest-bearing savings accounts, an IRA, etc., mostly dormant and with insignificant interest.
I have therefore determined that I should probably do the Streamlined compliance procedure and come into line. I welcome comments on this if anyone thinks this is bad logic.

I am married but my spouse is not a US citizen nor does she file US taxes. I suspect I will file Married/separately or HofH, but my income is less than hers so I don't know if I can do that.

To my question #1: can I do this alone? By "do" I mean complete the paperwork. I am sure I need help determining what and how to report, and the 2nd part of my question; can anyone recommend a TRUSTWORTHY advisor who can offer guidance without only trying to upsell me? (I have gone this route once, paid $500 up front and got zero result. The guy just left me hanging.)

My situation is conditioned by:
- I pay myself a VERY meager salary through my own company. (I take it therefore that I am NOT self-employed, as I am paid by a company). This permits me to pay local SS and have medical, etc. 
- The company has no dealings with the US, so no need to report there, and it is fully declared in France. However, it appears that I have to declare any company of which I am an owner, hence added filing?
- I am a co-signer on several joint local bank accounts including business accounts, hence FBAR (or FATCA? I can't sort out which i'm supposed to file....)
- I have absolutely nothing to hide, everything is declared and visible. 

I would prefer to limit expenses associated with this headache and do the filing myself IF that is smart. I understand that in some cases it may cost more to *not* pay a professional, but I feel like many of those in this space (I have now looked at many) are out just to take advantage of the complexity of it all.

Your thoughts, advice, suggestions and above all a recommendation of an advisor would be very much appreciated!


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## Nononymous (Jul 12, 2011)

My thoughts are not hugely helpful, I'm afraid. Don't do it. Continue ignoring US tax compliance. You are a dual citizen, you are not at risk. Filling out a bunch of tax forms - especially when you own a company - is a waste of time and potentially money.


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## 255 (Sep 8, 2018)

daniel paris -- If you ultimately decide to come into compliance, I think you can do it youself. All the old forms are on the IRS web-site. I recommend printing off forms for each year (only the past 7) and prepare drafts, for each year, based on your earnings -- then you can complete the forms with the IRSs built in pdf completion software and mail the completed forms to the IRS. No need to pay an advisor. Cheers, 255


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## Moulard (Feb 3, 2017)

> The company has no dealings with the US, so no need to report there, and it is fully declared in France. However, it appears that I have to declare any company of which I am an owner, hence added filing?


Unfortunately, you are only partially right. As a US owner of a foreign company you would potentially have a company reporting requirement. And company reporting requirements are fraught with complexity. 
What and how you would report it would depend on whether you are the sole owner or a major shareholder, whether it is incorporated, and a bunch of other factors.
If you are the sole owner, I believe you can treat it as a passthrough entity are report its income as your income. Its kinda like treating it as self-employment income.
This is an area which is way out of my depth unfortunately, and it may be the area where you would want to get professional advice, even if you end up submitting the forms yourself.


> - I am a co-signer on several joint local bank accounts including business accounts, hence FBAR (or FATCA? I can't sort out which i'm supposed to file....)


Two different reporting requirements to two different agencies with two different filing thresholds. FBAR goes to FinCen ; Form 8938 goes to the IRS


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## MaxMustermann (Jan 25, 2019)

Get help because it appears that you are not aware of how complicated this can be. You basically have to file your tax return as if you were running the business from the US. Foreign income is just as taxable as US-generated income.

From the IRS website:
"If you are a U.S. citizen or resident alien, the rules for filing income, estate, and gift tax returns and paying estimated tax are generally the same whether you are in the United States or abroad. Your worldwide income is subject to U.S. income tax, regardless of where you reside."

You can use the FEIE/FTC to reduce your tax liability and obviously social security and medicare taxes will not apply.

Streamlined filing will allow you to avoid any penalties, but it will not absolve you from paying any tax due.

I assume that my filings are much more simplified than yours because I'm only self-employed, but it was a pain to prepare several years' worth of returns.


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## Barbarossa026 (Jun 10, 2020)

MaxMustermann said:


> You can use the FEIE/FTC to reduce your tax liability and obviously social security and medicare taxes will not apply.
> 
> Streamlined filing will allow you to avoid any penalties, but it will not absolve you from paying any tax due.
> 
> I assume that my filings are much more simplified than yours because I'm only self-employed, but it was a pain to prepare several years' worth of returns.


Can I ask whether or not you used the Streamline procedure or did you simply file the tax returns for the several years? I'm in a similar position now where I have to file tax returns for the last 6 years even though I don't have to pay any tax on any of these returns (due to FEIE). Which is why I (obviously wrongly) assumed I didn't have to file a tax return.


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## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

Barbarossa026 said:


> Can I ask whether or not you used the Streamline procedure or did you simply file the tax returns for the several years? I'm in a similar position now where I have to file tax returns for the last 6 years even though I don't have to pay any tax on any of these returns (due to FEIE). Which is why I (obviously wrongly) assumed I didn't have to file a tax return.


The advantage is (or is supposed to be) with the Streamlined procedure, you file current year plus the 3 years prior and if that all results in no (or very little) tax due, you're off the hook for anything that you may have "overlooked" in any prior periods. (The FBARs still have to be filed for 6 years going back, but not the tax returns.)

If you just file the back returns, there's no guarantee that your prior tax returns are closed out and forgotten about.


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## Barbarossa026 (Jun 10, 2020)

Bevdeforges said:


> The advantage is (or is supposed to be) with the Streamlined procedure, you file current year plus the 3 years prior and if that all results in no (or very little) tax due, you're off the hook for anything that you may have "overlooked" in any prior periods. (The FBARs still have to be filed for 6 years going back, but not the tax returns.)
> 
> If you just file the back returns, there's no guarantee that your prior tax returns are closed out and forgotten about.


I see - so definitely using Streamline for 2016-2018 in that case. I have a few years prior to 2016. I guess it won't do any harm to send those in alongside the three Streamlined returns?


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## Nononymous (Jul 12, 2011)

Barbarossa026 said:


> I see - so definitely using Streamline for 2016-2018 in that case. I have a few years prior to 2016. I guess it won't do any harm to send those in alongside the three Streamlined returns?


If you are intent on using the streamlined program then only send what is required. Anything further is not necessary. In the extremely unlikely event they want to see earlier returns, they'll ask.


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## Jca1 (Aug 7, 2019)

I'd agree that this is not a DIY job if you're doing reporting for a business. The IRS casually hands out $10k penalties for foreign entity-related forms such as 5471 over the slightest real or perceived mistake, and you should want help from someone who has experience in completing these forms in an IRS-friendly way. 

Also be sure you aren't causing yourself more trouble than you were by doing nothing, and leaving yourself worse off. If you have business income it's likely some tax will be due because of GILTI and the "transition tax" that were implemented in the 2017 tax reforms, particularly so if you've been paying yourself a low salary to keep money in the company.


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## Nononymous (Jul 12, 2011)

On edit: Oops, it's someone else posting now, not the OP.


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