# What do I need



## Krystal59 (Nov 17, 2013)

Hi

We are going back to near Alhaurin el grande in March to find a villa to rent and then moving out for good in May. I have been reading anout NIE and registration, getting totally confused by it all. Can anyone tell me, what exactly I need to do about these, would be most grateful


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Krystal59 said:


> Hi
> 
> We are going back to near Alhaurin el grande in March to find a villa to rent and then moving out for good in May. I have been reading anout NIE and registration, getting totally confused by it all. Can anyone tell me, what exactly I need to do about these, would be most grateful


:welcome:

if you're going to be living in Spain then you'll need to register as resident - they should issue your NIE number (a fiscal number sort of like your NI number in the UK) at the same time

in order to register as resident you need to prove that you can support yourself financially & that you have healthcare provision

take a look at the first post on this thread - there is an explanation & links to some discussions about what is required 

http://www.expatforum.com/expats/sp...-living-spain/2725-faqs-lots-useful-info.html


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## Krystal59 (Nov 17, 2013)

*what do i need*

do I register at the town hall of the place I am living, also can I use my uk bank account for while in spain, as I do all my banking online. I realise I will probably need to open a spanish one, at some point, thank you for your help on this


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## el pescador (Mar 14, 2013)

xabiachica said:


> :welcome:
> 
> if you're going to be living in Spain then you'll need to register as resident - they should issue your NIE number (a fiscal number sort of like your NI number in the UK) at the same time
> 
> ...



So you don't need the residencia to rent a property initially?


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Krystal59 said:


> do I register at the town hall of the place I am living, also can I use my uk bank account for while in spain, as I do all my banking online. I realise I will probably need to open a spanish one, at some point, thank you for your help on this


You need to register at the nearest national police office/foreigners office. There used to be an advice office for British in El Grande, within the big library, I dont know if its still there. You can register on the padron there, but not for the main NIE/residencia. 

I dont know for sure with renting, but I've got a feeling that agents and landlords like you to have a Spanish bank account?? You can easily open a non residents bank account, but you do need to change it to a residents account within a certain period of time I believe

Jo xxx


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

el pescador said:


> So you don't need the residencia to rent a property initially?


Most agents do like to see an NIE, a residencia and a spanish bank account - altho I dont know if this is for legal reasons, or simply for their own edification

Jo xxx


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## el pescador (Mar 14, 2013)

jojo said:


> Most agents do like to see an NIE, a residencia and a spanish bank account - altho I dont know if this is for legal reasons, or simply for their own edification
> 
> Jo xxx


Thanks....still a head scratcher though.....maybe me being a bit thick ...
Ive lived abroad before and opened an account but that was because I knew someone and stayed with them.

Presume a UK address or the hotel where I will be staying would be ok?


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

el pescador said:


> Thanks....still a head scratcher though.....maybe me being a bit thick ...
> Ive lived abroad before and opened an account but that was because I knew someone and stayed with them.
> 
> Presume a UK address or the hotel where I will be staying would be ok?


you can open an account here as a non-resident using an address in the UK or wherever you are from. Most banks will do this with your passport - some will want a NIE 

not a resident cert - if/when you move here & register, you then take that cert into the bank & they will convert the account to a resident one


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

jojo said:


> Most agents do like to see an NIE, a residencia and a spanish bank account - altho I dont know if this is for legal reasons, or simply for their own edification
> 
> Jo xxx


Its not for legal reasons - though they will want some form of ID with a number for the contract

my landlord preferred the passport, because it is photo ID - although I do have a resident cert & NIE of course - but there's no proof that it's actually mine - especially since it even says on it that it can't be used as proof of ID


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

xabiachica said:


> Its not for legal reasons - though they will want some form of ID with a number for the contract
> 
> my landlord preferred the passport, because it is photo ID - although I do have a resident cert & NIE of course - but there's no proof that it's actually mine - especially since it even says on it that it can't be used as proof of ID


My agent friend said she wouldn't like ro say it was a legal requirement, but she insists on as much information as she can get, including personal and/or bank references!? 

But I suspect it's all negotiable, including the amount, deposit, finders fee.....

Jo xxx


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

jojo said:


> My agent friend said she wouldn't like ro say it was a legal requirement, but she insists on as much information as she can get, including personal and/or bank references!?
> 
> But I suspect it's all negotiable, including the amount, deposit, finders fee.....
> 
> Jo xxx


well she can't say that it is - because it isn't....

I've never had to give any kind of references - which I have to admit has always amazed me!


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

xabiachica said:


> well she can't say that it is - because it isn't....
> 
> I've never had to give any kind of references - which I have to admit has always amazed me!


The first time we rented, they asked for and we provided bank references. But after that, with a years rental under our belts, they didn't. I guess it depends on trust in the end, which, if you're new to Spain isn't going to be there in the beginning. 

I suppose in the current economic climate, agents have to balance caution against need!?

Jo xxx


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

Krystal59 said:


> do I register at the town hall of the place I am living, also can I use my uk bank account for while in spain, as I do all my banking online. I realise I will probably need to open a spanish one, at some point, thank you for your help on this


When getting your residencia, you are usually required to show that you have regular income or sufficient funds in a Spanish account.

You will also need a Spanish account to pay regular bills like water and electricity.

It can be done using cash but then the account and bills will be in someone else's (landlords) name and not yours - this may cause problems later on down the line. For example, you may never get to see the bills to see exactly what you are consuming!


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

snikpoh said:


> When getting your residencia, you are usually required to show that you have regular income or sufficient funds in a Spanish account.
> 
> You will also need a Spanish account to pay regular bills like water and electricity.
> 
> It can be done using cash but then the account and bills will be in someone else's (landlords) name and not yours - this may cause problems later on down the line. For example, you may never get to see the bills to see exactly what you are consuming!


I use my Spanish account for most transactions but have also an offshore euro account. 
Would Endesa etc. acceptayments from that account?

Our utility bills are in the landlord's name, I pay via dd but the bills come to my address. I thought the accounts had to be in the name of the owner of 
The property??


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## Lonely (Aug 11, 2012)

jojo said:


> You need to register at the nearest national police office/foreigners office.


where else can I get the NIE?

Spanish Consulates only?

Cheers


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Lonely said:


> where else can I get the NIE?
> 
> Spanish Consulates only?
> 
> Cheers


yes


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## Krystal59 (Nov 17, 2013)

*what do I need*

so before I rent a place I have to have an NIE, this is getting complicated, as we are coming out last 2 weeks of March, to find a rental property and move in May, I'm aware I will have to will have to pay rent for April too, but now I'm not sure if I can do that, if I understand correctly, I can't get an NIE till we have actually moved there.
Thank you to everone for your advice, keep them coming,as it is giving me more of an understanding etc


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Krystal59 said:


> so before I rent a place I have to have an NIE, this is getting complicated, as we are coming out last 2 weeks of March, to find a rental property and move in May, I'm aware I will have to will have to pay rent for April too, but now I'm not sure if I can do that, if I understand correctly, I can't get an NIE till we have actually moved there.
> Thank you to everone for your advice, keep them coming,as it is giving me more of an understanding etc


 You can get a temporary NIE and a non residents bank account when you go out in March, you can sign up for a property then too - but you must be sure that you have an income and healthcare proof for when you want to become residents. You can then apply for a permanent NIE and residencia. If you're using an agent - and its probably best to, until you're comfortable with the way things work, then they will advise you

Jo xxx


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

... http://www.propertydirectors.com/. are good agents in the El Grande area

Jo xxx


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

Krystal59 said:


> so before I rent a place I have to have an NIE, this is getting complicated, as we are coming out last 2 weeks of March, to find a rental property and move in May, I'm aware I will have to will have to pay rent for April too, but now I'm not sure if I can do that, if I understand correctly, I can't get an NIE till we have actually moved there.
> Thank you to everone for your advice, keep them coming,as it is giving me more of an understanding etc


You can rent with just a passport but many landlords will/may want to see that you are legally here in Spain in case things go wrong.




mrypg9 said:


> I use my Spanish account for most transactions but have also an offshore euro account.
> Would Endesa etc. acceptayments from that account?
> 
> Our utility bills are in the landlord's name, I pay via dd but the bills come to my address. I thought the accounts had to be in the name of the owner of
> The property??


I'm not sure about foreign euro accounts - I can't see why not but then this is Spain 

Utility accounts do NOT have to be in the name of the owner of the property. Your situation is the norm (from my experience). Landlord keeps the contract in their name but it's your bank account that gets debited. The reason for this is that to get a new contract, the property would require a boletin (water or electric) this is both costly and time consuming. If the tenant only stays a short time, then it all has to be done again back to the landlord and then back to a new tenant (ouch!) which is never worth it. For longer staying tenants it might be doable but who can predict what might happen.


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## Krystal59 (Nov 17, 2013)

Thanks for the answers to that question, it has helped such a lot. We were going to bring our car, but I have been on some sites, that say it's just not worth it, apparently it is dangerous to drive a RHD in Spain and trying to get it registered and spanish plates and spanish license, will cost a lot of money, plus we are also bringing our motorbike and trike, so I don't know what to do


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## el pescador (Mar 14, 2013)

xabiachica said:


> you can open an account here as a non-resident using an address in the UK or wherever you are from. Most banks will do this with your passport - some will want a NIE
> 
> not a resident cert - if/when you move here & register, you then take that cert into the bank & they will convert the account to a resident one




ah thanks...
I like to get potential problems covered....that's reassured me.


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

Krystal59 said:


> Thanks for the answers to that question, it has helped such a lot. We were going to bring our car, but I have been on some sites, that say it's just not worth it, apparently it is dangerous to drive a RHD in Spain and trying to get it registered and spanish plates and spanish license, will cost a lot of money, plus we are also bringing our motorbike and trike, so I don't know what to do


We brought our RHD car over with us - it's not dangerous at all, you just have to careful and appreciate you may not be able to see as much as 'normal'.

For us it was costly to matriculate (put onto Spanish plates) but then no one pointed out to us how to save the initial tax.

Getting a Spanish driving licence is simple. You get a medical (which you need anyway with a UK licence) and then swap your UK licence for a Spanish one. Obviously there's a cost involved, but it's not great.

The only real issue is that any vehicle must be absolutely standard with no mods - so the trike might be an issue! I hear that bikes can also be a problem sometimes but best to ask that sort of question as a separate thread.


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## Krystal59 (Nov 17, 2013)

Thanks for that snikpoh, I know there are trikes out there, so will have to look more into this, it's all getting so confusing lol


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

what if you bring a UK car, but then never use, just scrap - we want to travel over in ours but then buy Spanish when we get there? Is that possible


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## angil (Sep 24, 2012)

Again............ after jumping through bloomin hoops at the office next to the police station in Torremolinos to get our residency / NIE / little slips of green paper thingys I have yet to be asked for my NIE number or residency status!
I still need to carry my passport around as ID (as I don't drive and the little slips of green paper don't have a photo on them)
We rented our apt, got private health insurance, telephone land lines, Spanish bank accounts etc all without an NIE numbers, just using our EU passports as ID when asked.
Infact the La Caixa bank was opened using our Korean address. So British Citizens renting an apt in Spain were allowed to open a Spanish bank account minus an NIE number with the address of their former apt in South Korea!
So I am now onto my 6th month living here. Hubby working away on rotation, kids at private school, me doing my housewife thing! Just living our lives! I am wondering what difference it would have made had we decided not to get our NIE numbers. Would someone have banged on my door demanding I register or leave the country!? 
We would never dodge the tax man & know on the 184th day we are liable for Spanish income tax, we have a Spanish tax consultant lined up so it would have nothing to do with tax that 'bang on the door'! 
I think the whole 'system' here is ridiculously flawed. I wonder how many folks live here under the radar?
(& our massive elec and water bills! are in some one elses name. I go to one of the banks named at the bottom of the bill and pay in cash).


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## el pescador (Mar 14, 2013)

How big are those bills compared to the UK?


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

angil said:


> Again............ after jumping through bloomin hoops at the office next to the police station in Torremolinos to get our residency / NIE / little slips of green paper thingys I have yet to be asked for my NIE number or residency status!
> I still need to carry my passport around as ID (as I don't drive and the little slips of green paper don't have a photo on them)
> We rented our apt, got private health insurance, telephone land lines, Spanish bank accounts etc all without an NIE numbers, just using our EU passports as ID when asked.
> Infact the La Caixa bank was opened using our Korean address. So British Citizens renting an apt in Spain were allowed to open a Spanish bank account minus an NIE number with the address of their former apt in South Korea!
> ...



... but that probably means you have an ex-pat (non-resident) bank account and so are paying more for the privilege than you need to!

Are you renting? If so, then there is no problem with the bills being in someone else's name. If you own the property, then you should have changed the name on all utility bills.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

angil said:


> Again............ after jumping through bloomin hoops at the office next to the police station in Torremolinos to get our residency / NIE / little slips of green paper thingys I have yet to be asked for my NIE number or residency status!
> I still need to carry my passport around as ID (as I don't drive and the little slips of green paper don't have a photo on them)
> We rented our apt, got private health insurance, telephone land lines, Spanish bank accounts etc all without an NIE numbers, just using our EU passports as ID when asked.
> Infact the La Caixa bank was opened using our Korean address. So British Citizens renting an apt in Spain were allowed to open a Spanish bank account minus an NIE number with the address of their former apt in South Korea!
> ...



that's pretty much what has been happening around here

the Guardia have been door knocking and demanding that people register as resident or prove that they aren't

some of these people were on the padrón - some weren't resident & shouldn't have been on the padrón so had to come off

some were registered as resident but not on the padrón so were told that they need to go on the padrón


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## Pazcat (Mar 24, 2010)

snikpoh said:


> ... but that probably means you have an ex-pat (non-resident) bank account and so are paying more for the privilege than you need to!


That's not necessarily true, we have never given our bank anything but the passport number and as soon as we had a local address we got the account switched over. They don't really seem interested in a NIE or I suppose they would of asked.

edit: I should add it may not be the case with all banks though.


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## angil (Sep 24, 2012)

Banging on doors demanding to see your papers?! My daughter's History IGCSE covered a period in European history that sounded similar to that! 

We are registered, have our NIE etc. But if we were simply here on a long vacation or whatever, & knew we didn't need to register I would take exception having to explain myself to a policeman banging on my door either way. That just doesn't sound right?!

Judging by the number of Lucky, Lucky men (where did that unfortunate name come from?!), Roma looking beggars and the likes in my area, I would have thought street walking would precede the door knocking by the Guardia?! 

I could be mistaken but I am guessing these folks don't have an income of €600 per month or savings in excess of €6000 in a Spanish bank account plus private healthcare?!

We are renting our apt. I wouldn't buy here. 

Our utility bills are uniquely huge! 

& yes we really must change to a residents account at La Caixa. Not sure how much financially better of you will be by doing this?


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## Pazcat (Mar 24, 2010)

I have to explain myself to the bloody postman every second time he comes.

Anything comes for my wife or landlord and I'm subject to the inquisition, which I might add I have explained to the same guy on numerous occasions.

Oh, and the postman wants your papers too.

It's fun though. I put it down to being new in the area but it's been a few months now and he still asks.


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## angil (Sep 24, 2012)

Its the snotty shop assistant in Primor demanding to see my passport, when I buy anti aging cream and shampoo, on my La Caixa card! It gets to me more than it probably should! Not sure I could cope with "I vant to see your papers" (insert mock Gestapo voice!) from the local police at my front door!! Certainly not the European experience we were all expecting after years in Asia as expats!! Oh well I am sure we will look back and laugh one day!!!!?


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

angil said:


> Banging on doors demanding to see your papers?! My daughter's History IGCSE covered a period in European history that sounded similar to that!
> 
> We are registered, have our NIE etc. But if we were simply here on a long vacation or whatever, & knew we didn't need to register I would take exception having to explain myself to a policeman banging on my door either way. That just doesn't sound right?!
> 
> ...


looky looky men - that's what they say to you when they shove the illegal DVDs under your nose - lookylooky 

the people I knew personally who had their doors knocked on have way more than the financial requirements - 7 or 8 times more in fact

they had simply never bothered - neither had they ever bothered to do a tax return 

they have now though - & also they have had to declare overseas assets....am I sounding cynical here?

what was actually happening as I understand it, was the ayto had sent out 'please come in & confirm you're still here for the padrón' letters, & the Guardia were following up on those who hadn't responded

the Guardia Civil does in fact have access to the padrón records, specifically for keeping track of resident foreigners


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

angil said:


> Its the snotty shop assistant in Primor demanding to see my passport, when I buy anti aging cream and shampoo, on my La Caixa card!



I don't get it.
What's the problem with someone asking for ID when you use a card?
Everyone has to give ID when using one.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Pesky Wesky said:


> I don't get it.
> What's the problem with someone asking for ID when you use a card?
> Everyone has to give ID when using one.



none - the pita is that it has to be your VERY expensive to replace if it gets lost UK passport!!

I don't carry mine - I know I should, but I don't


I pretty much never pay by card, either, though


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## gus-lopez (Jan 4, 2010)

Pesky Wesky said:


> I don't get it.
> What's the problem with someone asking for ID when you use a card?
> Everyone has to give ID when using one.


Not in the UK you don't. :lol:
Some friends were here & we were getting shopping & arguing over who was paying & they got in first with their card, until the assistant asked for ID !


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

angil said:


> Its the snotty shop assistant in Primor demanding to see my passport, when I buy anti aging cream and shampoo, on my La Caixa card! It gets to me more than it probably should! Not sure I could cope with "I vant to see your papers" (insert mock Gestapo voice!) from the local police at my front door!! Certainly not the European experience we were all expecting after years in Asia as expats!! Oh well I am sure we will look back and laugh one day!!!!?


Perhaps the assistant thought you were too young to need anti-ageing cream


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

gus-lopez said:


> Not in the UK you don't. :lol:
> Some friends were here & we were getting shopping & arguing over who was paying & they got in first with their card, until the assistant asked for ID !


Well, yes, but I assumed that angil lived in Spain!

I'm lucky in that I have a Spanish driving licence and use that. I'm the opposite of xabia and nearly always pay by card. I wouldn't want to carry my passport around and never have done, even though I could get fined for having no ID. On the other hand I've never been stopped and asked for ID and I've only ever been stopped once in the car and they just wanted to see the licence


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## Pazcat (Mar 24, 2010)

angil said:


> Its the snotty shop assistant in Primor demanding to see my passport, when I buy anti aging cream and shampoo, on my La Caixa card! It gets to me more than it probably should! Not sure I could cope with "I vant to see your papers" (insert mock Gestapo voice!) from the local police at my front door!! Certainly not the European experience we were all expecting after years in Asia as expats!! Oh well I am sure we will look back and laugh one day!!!!?


In Belgium whenever you move house after registering at the council the Police who clearly have nothing better to do will come and knock on your door to do an ID check. It's the law over there and certainly comes as quite a shock when at 9am the rozzers come knocking.

Frankly it's not normal behaviour in a free society but it's good practice for living in Spain.

I find the whole supplying ID when buying things uncalled for, it's not anyone's business, not good business practice and frankly probably a breach of human rights. 
There are many excellent security features in place already by the CC companies so that's not the reason.

For that reason I will purchase things from another country whenever I have the choice, that and half the site/stores wont accept my ID number anyway.


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## angil (Sep 24, 2012)

Looky, looky men! Bless them! I was wondering where the Lucky, lucky came from!, as by my definition they don't appear very lucky at all!!

I don't mind carrying id. I hiked on remote trails in Korea and always carried my Alien Registration Card with me just in case! (one of the nasty looking squirrels decided to have a go or something like that!). 

Although other than going through immigration or when it needed updating I was never asked to show it.

Its the fact that the residencia 'cards' aren't suitable as id in the eyes of said snotty Primor shop assistant, which I suppose is fair enough as it could belong to anyone without a photograph. & other than my passport I have no other form of id and the circle continues!

You shouldn't have to carry your passport around with you, it is expensive to replace and I am guessing a 'marketable' item for a thief to target? I am not sure anyone has the right to demand to see it other than immigration??

& I have never been asked for id when using a card whether it be debit or credit anywhere else in the World I have shopped!

I used to buy my morning Starbucks with my debit card for convenience! Me and every other Korean in the queue (they did roll their eyes in Hong Kong when I tried it there!). 

At bars and restaurants here its cash only (me and hubby have been caught out a few times; just so used to handing over a card)! & at shops you need to remember to bring your passport! We are still in the transitional / getting used to 'stuff' phase I think!

I am needing bucket loads of that anti ageing cream, bloomin place is putting years on me!! So that'll be me passport out again!


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

I have no problems with proving my ID using a Spanish Driving Licence. I also have no problems with their asking me for my ID in the first place, unless I am known in that establishment, I am asking them to accept that I, as a complete stranger, am the authorised user of that card. When one hears of so many cards being cloned or stolen and PIN numbers being stolen, one can hardly blame them. If they fail to check the ID, and it turns out to be a dud (stolen or cloned or...) the bank refuses to pay. 

I just don't know why some people are so afraid to show ID or have their information computerised - maybe they have a hidden past that they don't want to be revealed. The same problem exists in UK with the computerisation of Medical Records and ID cards there - with the former, if you have to see somebody who is not your regular doctor then he/she is often working in the dark about your pre-existing conditions. Here with your medical card, they can access your medical records from anywhere in the country a great help when I had a severe eye problem on New Year's Eve a couple of years ago when we were in Barcelona several hundred miles from home.


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## angil (Sep 24, 2012)

I have no problem with id cards either (one of the many things me and hubby disagree on - apparently opposites really do attract!). 

It is the fact that in Spain, if their system demands me as a foreigner to carry id with me at all times, then their residencia cards should be compatible with that system. Just add a photo & laminate it! Its not rocket science! 

Its the whole passport thing that bugs me and shop assistants asking to see it as if they have the right! Its the most Alien concept I have ever encountered!


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

angil said:


> I have no problem with id cards either (one of the many things me and hubby disagree on - apparently opposites really do attract!).
> 
> It is the fact that in Spain, if their system demands me as a foreigner to carry id with me at all times, then their residencia cards should be compatible with that system. Just add a photo & laminate it! Its not rocket science!
> 
> Its the whole passport thing that bugs me and shop assistants asking to see it as if they have the right! Its the most Alien concept I have ever encountered!


ahh - but non-EU citizens *do *get a photo ID card

it's just us EU citizens who don't - but then, I believe that most EU countries have photo ID cards anyway - so that would be acceptable as ID for a card payment


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## Pazcat (Mar 24, 2010)

baldilocks said:


> I have no problems with proving my ID using a Spanish Driving Licence. I also have no problems with their asking me for my ID in the first place, unless I am known in that establishment, I am asking them to accept that I, as a complete stranger, am the authorised user of that card.


In Australia it's law that you have to have a valid form of photo ID so having to have an ID card of some type is not a problem for me, it's normal and a sensible law. That does not mean though that everybody and their dog has the right to your information, in fact most countries have laws in place to protect that information, it's private which is why I personally find it so intrusive. What right does a furniture store have access to all of your information?
Fair enough you have to give some details to do business but here you give everything, you're left naked.

I understand where you are coming from though and I agree with you to a point it just really screams intrusion.

As an addition merchants aren't actually allowed to deny you a purchase if you choose not to show your ID as it breaks the agreement with visa/mastercard. I'm not sure if that goes for all companies but I'd say it's standard T&C. Try that one on in a shop though, it wont do you any good. 
See page 34 here.
http://usa.visa.com/download/merchants/card-acceptance-guidelines-for-visa-merchants.pdf

Although that only states about ID and not farming numbers so I'm sure there is an escape clause somewhere.



baldilocks said:


> When one hears of so many cards being cloned or stolen and PIN numbers being stolen, one can hardly blame them. If they fail to check the ID, and it turns out to be a dud (stolen or cloned or...) the bank refuses to pay.


The thing is though it's not the ID they are checking, all they want is your number be it passport or NIE. If you have the number memorised then no need to produce the card. And as my number is slightly different then it's really luck of the draw if it'll be accepted.
I often wonder if there is a correlation between Spain having one of the highest rates of card and identity fraud to the fact that you have to hand over all of your sensitive details to companies who cannot protect your details.

There isn't even a consensus on how things actually have to be run, sometimes you need a number and sometimes you don't, it all depends on who you are dealing with. You are normally always allowed to use your passport number but then the system is not configured to accept that so you can't. Phone companies want you to give them bank details over the phone, passport numbers and the like and a bank has no concern at all for asking for your PIN over the phone. 
It's just a bit of a mess is all.



Sorry for the grizzle but sometimes one needs to vent and I could go on, I fully accept that it is just the way things are here and it's not a deal breaker just really, really annoying and borderline illegal anywhere else.

As it was mentioned earlier I'm sure it's one of those things that all newcomers go through but there are times when I feel like this picture.










As a side and somewhat relevant to something, we just got new internet installed(praise the spaghetti monster, it's brilliant) using my passport number.
So many times we were told you have to have an NIE but that wasn't true at least for this company.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Pazcat said:


> The thing is though it's not the ID they are checking, all they want is your number be it passport or NIE. If you have the number memorised then no need to produce the card. And as my number is slightly different then it's really luck of the draw if it'll be accepted.
> I often wonder if there is a correlation between Spain having one of the highest rates of card and identity fraud to the fact that you have to hand over all of your sensitive details to companies who cannot protect your details.
> 
> There isn't even a consensus on how things actually have to be run, sometimes you need a number and sometimes you don't, it all depends on who you are dealing with. You are normally always allowed to use your passport number but then the system is not configured to accept that so you can't. Phone companies want you to give them bank details over the phone, passport numbers and the like and a bank has no concern at all for asking for your PIN over the phone.
> ...


I don't think what they want in Spain is your number 'cos that way there wouldn't be any problem in showing the green registration certificate as ID. The reason they want the passport is because it's official *photo* ID.

As you say, it's something that's different and something that takes getting used to, but if you really are going to live here (or even if you're not) you're just going to have to get used to it. Either that, or a lot of energy is going to be spent in getting up tight in shops when that energy could be spent walking in beautiful countyside, taking in a view on a sunny terraza or playing with the kids in the garden!
Looking at it from the other side, I was talking to a bunch of Spaniards + one French or Belgian guy and they just couldn't get their heads round the idea that there was no official ID card in the UK, and I get quite narked in the UK when I pay by card and they don't even bother to check the signature!!


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Pazcat said:


> The thing is though it's not the ID they are checking, all they want is your number be it passport or NIE.


Not true - whenever I've had to show some form of ID when paying with a card in a store where I am not known, they just take a glance and hand the card back to you after they've compared my ugly mug with the pic on my D/L.

There are occasions such as some deliveries where they require your NIE to ensure they are delivering to the right person. I have nothing to hide so I'm not bothered.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

> See page 34 here.
> Visa USA | Global | Error - Page Not Found


But that relates to USA not Western Europe. In the US many merchants do not use Chip and PIN technology and still rely on signatures. There is another set of rules that relates to Western Europe.


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## Pazcat (Mar 24, 2010)

It relates to Visa as a whole I think(maybe not) but that is besides the point. I don't actually care if somebody is trying to check my ID or age or whatever, it never happens anyway as I don't pay with a CC.

It relates to the want for a DNI/NIE/passport number, it is very true that you get asked for it quite often but just what Pepe's Auto Repairs need it for is anyone's guess. I don't trust them to have the level of security to correctly protect my information. Armed with your bank details, name, address and ID number a thief can pretty much wipe you out.

Toys r us required a number to ship a play set to us, online stores(not all mind you which leads me to believe the whole thing is bollocks anyway) wont let you purchase anything without having the number, the postman wants it, every form you fill out everywhere needs it.
It is in the simplest form a security risk before anything else. Numbers like these exist in nearly all societies but are private and used as a form of ID protection here you may as well just be chipped at birth or on entry. It reads like a Welles or Huxely novel.
Put even more simply it's none of their business in the first place.

As I said before, my number is different(similar to a diplomat or EU worker). Technically I am not supposed to have an NIE. My number is fully legal and by law should be accepted everywhere, sometimes it is but a lot of the time it isn't.
Hence my doubled frustration at the matter.



> As you say, it's something that's different and something that takes getting used to, but if you really are going to live here (or even if you're not) you're just going to have to get used to it. Either that, or a lot of energy is going to be spent in getting up tight in shops when that energy could be spent walking in beautiful countyside, taking in a view on a sunny terraza or playing with the kids in the garden!
> Looking at it from the other side, I was talking to a bunch of Spaniards + one French or Belgian guy and they just couldn't get their heads round the idea that there was no official ID card in the UK, and I get quite narked in the UK when I pay by card and they don't even bother to check the signature!!


I agree with you completely, one can spend their days asking for complaints books but even then it's not going to change anything. Like I said, it's a bit of a grizzle is all.

Interestingly you mention other nationalities and it is a good point, as I mentioned above about the police checks in Belgium talking to other Belgians here they see nothing wrong with something like registering on the Padron(doesn't bother me a great deal either) as they see it as normal, talking to a French person about it then they are about 2 seconds away from organising a general strike as such a thing is heavily protected in France. I'm married to a French person though and maybe that has something to do with it.


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