# US Citizen by birth on US soil, never lived in US, never filed taxes



## vitamine1031 (May 10, 2017)

Hello,

Perhaps someone can help here:

Situation:
US citizen (because of being born on US soil)
US Passport
NEVER lived in USA
Only ever lived and worked in Spain
Have never filed US taxes

Would such a person be flagged upon entering the US for a 10-day visit?

Thanks for any info anyone can provide!.


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## gairloch (Jun 24, 2011)

Well, you and Boris Johnson have something in common.....

You may have no problem if they do not notice, (I have heard of cases where this has happened), BUT... 
As I have read, it is a us Federal law that US citizens enter and depart the USA on a US passport you MIGHT have anything from no difficulty, to a little difficulty, to flat refusal of entry or refusal to leave the USA. You place yourself in the hands if the immigration officer. I have read of cases (online) ranging from 'I always do it' to 'I was pull aside and refused permission to leave'. Note, IMO they can easily prevent you from leaving, they have a harder time refusing entry.
Do some research before you go. But you assume risk without a US passport.


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## vitamine1031 (May 10, 2017)

I didn't realize that was the case for Boris Johnson!

Last year, for the first time ever, the bank requested a social security number. If I didn't respond they were to freeze the account. I had never even had a social security number before, and had to apply to get one assigned, which took a few months. So there is at least something being reported from my bank using my social security number. However, I have never received any sort of correspondence from the Internal Revenue Service.
I honestly had no idea that the US taxed all its citizens even if they have never resided there. When friends heard I was possibly planning a trip, they brought this to my attention and were particularly concerned because of the insanity of Trump's administration. 🙄


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## kalohi (May 6, 2012)

If you are a man between the ages of 18 and 25 you also must register with the selective service.

You can file your US income taxes today and also back file for the previous 3 years, and then stop worrying about it. You most likely won't have to pay anything, assuming you earn less than about $100,000 a year. By using the Foreign Earned Income Exclusion you can earn up to that amount tax free. There is no fine for late filing if you don't owe Uncle Sam any money. 

It's another issue if you have or have had over $10,000 total in foreign bank accounts. In that case you need to file a FinCEN Form 1145 (also know as the Fbar) with the Treasury Department - not with the IRS. There are huge fines for not complying or for late filing, although there's an amnesty program available. 

Look here on the tax section of this webpage for lots of information about all of this. 

Oh, the joys of being a US citizen abroad...


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## expat16 (Jun 11, 2016)

vitamine1031 said:


> I didn't realize that was the case for Boris Johnson!
> 
> Last year, for the first time ever, the bank requested a social security number. If I didn't respond they were to freeze the account. I had never even had a social security number before, and had to apply to get one assigned, which took a few months. So there is at least something being reported from my bank using my social security number. However, I have never received any sort of correspondence from the Internal Revenue Service.
> I honestly had no idea that the US taxed all its citizens even if they have never resided there. When friends heard I was possibly planning a trip, they brought this to my attention and were particularly concerned because of the insanity of Trump's administration. 🙄


You don't necessarily get taxed. You MUST report your earnings and in the form you also state how much tax you paid in the country where you reside. 

Moreover there are two things that need to happen before you actually have to pay tax. First, there is the foreign income exclusion. This sets a maximum income that is completely excluded from taxes, this is probably around $100,000 at the moment, it changes every year. So if you don't make more than that, you don't pay, period.

Then, if you do make more than that, you have the foreign tax credit. This means that the tax you have paid in your country of tax residence is credited against any US tax that would be due (on income above $100K). In my experience, most European countries have a higher tax rate than the US, so normally you will have paid more tax that you would owe the US so that you don't have to pay anything to the US.


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## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

Don't let folks freak you out too much.

We do have an Expat Tax section here, and you may well want to take a look at that. For the moment, you may very well just consider laying low and just staying off the IRS radar, as many "accidental Americans" do. There are many valid reasons why some Americans are not required to file income taxes (mainly, insufficient income) and the IRS closed down all its overseas offices a year or two ago, so they have very limited resources to investigate individuals overseas.

As far as the trip to the US is concerned, there is a reasonable chance that you'll be pulled aside in the Immigration queue and "given a stern talking to." But the Immigration people have no information about your tax compliance record until and unless the IRS has actually issued a warrant based on an audit or other sort of formal investigation (of which you would most definitely be aware). Or maybe not.

Friend of mine who has US citizenship traveled to the US a year or two ago with her daughter, who was born there, but has never "acknowledged" her US citizenship. The Immigration agent noticed her US birthplace, and she was questioned for a good hour before they released her, basically with the warning that "we're letting you go this time, but don't do this again." (I think she is just planning never to return to the US.)

My friend's other daughter went to the US last November with her (French) family. No one noticed the US birthplace - or if they did, they let it go. Now her mother (US citizen) wants her to come with on a US trip and she claims that because she wasn't hassled last November, she won't have problems now. I guess we'll find out. 

Getting a US passport costs about $100 plus the cost of making and keeping an appointment at the Consulate, the cost of getting "US sized" passport photos (because they don't take standard European size i.d. photos) and the cost of a registered mailer the Consulate will require from you to return your new passport when it's ready. Up to you if you want to risk the inconvenience of being briefly detained - but given the insanity going on back there, I'd say it's probably cheap insurance. However, at this point, there is no need to sweat the tax side of this. 
Cheers,
Bev


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## jimenato (Nov 21, 2009)

Bevdeforges said:


> Don't let folks freak you out too much.
> 
> We do have an Expat Tax section here, and you may well want to take a look at that. For the moment, you may very well just consider laying low and just staying off the IRS radar, as many "accidental Americans" do.
> 
> ...


Yep - lots of Brits just lay low and stay under the radar. It's fine.


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## gairloch (Jun 24, 2011)

vitamine1031 said:


> I didn't realize that was the case for Boris Johnson!
> 
> Last year, for the first time ever, the bank requested a social security number. If I didn't respond they were to freeze the account. I had never even had a social security number before, and had to apply to get one assigned, which took a few months. So there is at least something being reported from my bank using my social security number. However, I have never received any sort of correspondence from the Internal Revenue Service.
> I honestly had no idea that the US taxed all its citizens even if they have never resided there. When friends heard I was possibly planning a trip, they brought this to my attention and were particularly concerned because of the insanity of Trump's administration. 🙄


Well, in this case Trump is not to blame lol. It's gotten particularly bad under previous administrations running back to the 70's. It's all a hunt to tax the elusive tax evader, the rest of us got caught up in it. So do not worry about Trump. If you want to worry, the IRS and the Treasury are enough to strike fear into the heart of most Americans. 

You may want to look into the Tax section as previously noted. As well as FBAR, general USA taxation, and renunciation of US citizenship (if you don't want it). On the other hand, you can move there with no hassles on the immigration side (many would give their arm for the opportunity -others, errr, no way).


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## vitamine1031 (May 10, 2017)

Thank you so much to everyone. I actually joined the forum and submitted my question on behalf of my cousin, who is planning on making a visit to NYC with her husband and infant. She's got a US Passport already.
You guys rock!!!


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## expat16 (Jun 11, 2016)

Bevdeforges said:


> Don't let folks freak you out too much.
> 
> We do have an Expat Tax section here, and you may well want to take a look at that. For the moment, you may very well just consider laying low and just staying off the IRS radar, as many "accidental Americans" do. There are many valid reasons why some Americans are not required to file income taxes (mainly, insufficient income) and the IRS closed down all its overseas offices a year or two ago, so they have very limited resources to investigate individuals overseas.
> 
> ...



Good information. Although I wouldn't call these people 'accidental Americans' if they went through the trouble of getting a US passport (unless it was their parents who did this). All citizenships come with rights as well as obligations. 

I have a feeling that if I came to this forum asking how to evade Spanish tax law I would be strongly chastised, as I've actually seen happen, and likely even accused of being a spoiled American wanting special treatment.


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