# No SEF appointments available



## bubulac (Sep 12, 2021)

Hi everybody,
I am a Romanian/Canadian citizen in Portugal, already got my Certificado de Registo, the rest of my family Canadian citizens (wife + 2 daughters). We have a rental contract, all of us have NIFs with Portuguese address, the girls are enrolled in school, the problem is that we are not able to get an appointment at SEF for my wife and daughters to get their residence cards through reagrupamento familiar. And, from what I understood from the lady I was able to talk to on the phone at SEF, no one knows when we will be able to make an appointment for the rest of my family. 
We were assured at the Camara Municipal when I got my Certificado de Registo that the rest of my family have the same right to reside in Portugal that I have, even with Canadian passports. But we do not feel comfortable on this promisse, especially with the initial 3 months after entry of my family members expiring soon...
The question is, what do we do in situations where they do require proof of residence (such as residence card or proof that an appointment at SEF is pending)? 
What do we do if my wife is stopped on the street and asked for ID (and the 3 months allowed expired already)?
What do we do if we want to travel out of Portugal?...
Anyone with any experience with this kind of issue? I am pretty sure we are not the only ones who've gone through this...
Any recourse available at SEF?
Thank you for any possible reply/advice,
Cristian


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## hktoportugal (Feb 25, 2019)

I was dealing with SEF a number of years ago, when it was also hard to get an appointment. At that time I was communicating with a friendly SEF inspector who was very responsive in his emails. 

At that time he said that we could travel (after the 3 months) in Europe as long as we could show that a) I had a residence card and b) I could show a marriage certificate recognised in the EU, and for our daughter the family relationship. 

Regarding the period of three months he told me the following at that time (for context, like yourself, I am European, my wife and daughter are not), which confirms what you were told:

"About the duration of your wife and daughter’s stay in Portugal, let’s clarify:

They are not covered by law 23/07, which determines that 90 day period, but by law 37/06, and this law states as I have described in my earlier e-mail:

You and your family cannot be harmed or prejudiced by a delay in the processing of your application by the Administration.

Besides, the applicable law states that:

“_The possession of the registration certificate referred to in Article 14, the permanent residence certificate, a certificate stating that a family member holds a residence card, is in no case a prerequisite for the exercise of a right or the fulfillment of an administrative formality, because the status of beneficiary of the rights of residence under the present Law may be attested by any other means of proof_.” (Law 37/2006, article 21).

This means that in the day your marriage was recognized by an EU authority, your wife and daughter gained all the rights and privileges that a Residence Card would grant them (under the EU Directive nr. 2004/38/CE – April 29th, by the European Parliament and the European Council).

So, they can stay in Portugal even after the visa expires, as long as they reside here with you. That said, the appointment will be necessary, because they must request that residence card, anyway. There’s a fine if they don’t do it within 120 days."

The last paragraph was valid at that time (pre-covid) so it may be different now. In the end we managed to get an appointment within those 120 days after arriving in Portugal.


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## bubulac (Sep 12, 2021)

hktoportugal said:


> I was dealing with SEF a number of years ago, when it was also hard to get an appointment. At that time I was communicating with a friendly SEF inspector who was very responsive in his emails.
> 
> At that time he said that we could travel (after the 3 months) in Europe as long as we could show that a) I had a residence card and b) I could show a marriage certificate recognised in the EU, and for our daughter the family relationship.
> 
> ...


Thanks a lot for your explanations and the time you put into making things clear.
I have two questions though: what about travel outside of the UE?
And you mentioned "marriage recognized by an EU authority" - what about marriage outside of EU (Ukraine in our case)?...
Any ideas on that?
Thank you again,
Cristian


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## hktoportugal (Feb 25, 2019)

Well, I am not a legal expert (which is why I reached out at that time to SEF) but regarding your marriage certificate I expect SEF needs a certified copy with an Apostille recognised by the EU. In our case, as we were married in Hong Kong, we had the marriage certificate certified by the Hong Kong government and then submitted the certified copy to the Hong Kong High Court to get the Apostille (you would need to find out which legal body does that in the Ukraine, in Hong Kong it is only the High Court). For any legal papers outside the EU that you want to use for SEF or other government agencies the Apostille is required. So not only for SEF but also for instance if you want to exchange your drivers license from outside the EU for a Portuguese one. (as we found out the hard way as the drivers licences were the only documents I hadn´t done the Apostille for before we left from Hong Kong so I had to send them back to a friend to arrange it for us)


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## bubulac (Sep 12, 2021)

hktoportugal said:


> Well, I am not a legal expert (which is why I reached out at that time to SEF) but regarding your marriage certificate I expect SEF needs a certified copy with an Apostille recognised by the EU. In our case, as we were married in Hong Kong, we had the marriage certificate certified by the Hong Kong government and then submitted the certified copy to the Hong Kong High Court to get the Apostille (you would need to find out which legal body does that in the Ukraine, in Hong Kong it is only the High Court). For any legal papers outside the EU that you want to use for SEF or other government agencies the Apostille is required. So not only for SEF but also for instance if you want to exchange your drivers license from outside the EU for a Portuguese one. (as we found out the hard way as the drivers licences were the only documents I hadn´t done the Apostille for before we left from Hong Kong so I had to send them back to a friend to arrange it for us)


Oh, OK, got it. Yeah, we had apostilled in Ukraine for Canada (although I understand that Ukraine has signed the Hague convention on Apostille so an Apostille wouldn't be needed in the EU - but we have it anyway)
Thanks again!


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## ViaVinho (Jul 29, 2016)

bubulac said:


> Hi everybody,
> I am a Romanian/Canadian citizen in Portugal, already got my Certificado de Registo, the rest of my family Canadian citizens (wife + 2 daughters). We have a rental contract, all of us have NIFs with Portuguese address, the girls are enrolled in school, the problem is that we are not able to get an appointment at SEF for my wife and daughters to get their residence cards through reagrupamento familiar. And, from what I understood from the lady I was able to talk to on the phone at SEF, no one knows when we will be able to make an appointment for the rest of my family.
> We were assured at the Camara Municipal when I got my Certificado de Registo that the rest of my family have the same right to reside in Portugal that I have, even with Canadian passports. But we do not feel comfortable on this promisse, especially with the initial 3 months after entry of my family members expiring soon...
> The question is, what do we do in situations where they do require proof of residence (such as residence card or proof that an appointment at SEF is pending)?
> ...


My experience is that it is very difficult to contact SEF by phone or make an appointment through the website. The website might say no appointments available, but in my experience this is incorrect. One must phone and continue to try, despite the difficulties, until one succeeds making an appointment through the phone. In my experience, this is apparently the only way possible. Please be aware that a fine might be applied for staying after the permits have expired and functionaries might be unreceptive to pleas of difficulties. My experience relates to permanent residency permits, so I do not know how it translates to your situation. I'd suggest contacting SEF regularly by phone to get the current information and pose the same questions to them that you did here. Good luck ahead!


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