# Do you get autonomo fees refunded?



## AllHeart (Nov 22, 2013)

Are the monthly autonomo fees refunded when you file a tax return? In other words, is this counted as tax paid? The reason I'm asking is I'm hoping to work part time self-employed in medical transcription, but the amount I would earn won't be much more than the autonomo fees. However, if this is returned when I file taxes, it will be worth it. Does anyone know, please?


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## jimenato (Nov 21, 2009)

AllHeart said:


> Are the monthly autonomo fees refunded when you file a tax return? In other words, is this counted as tax paid? The reason I'm asking is I'm hoping to work part time self-employed in medical transcription, but the amount I would earn won't be much more than the autonomo fees. However, if this is returned when I file taxes, it will be worth it. Does anyone know, please?


Sorry, no it is not returned.


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## AllHeart (Nov 22, 2013)

Thanks for letting me know. There goes that idea!


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

You do not get it back, but it counts towards tax deductions

Tax deductions
You can claim deductions on your tax return for the following, provided you have a proper invoices and receipts: 

social security contributions;
expenses such as accounting and tax services;
professional subscriptions;
office expenses;
phone and internet;
any vehicles that you use for work.

Taxes for freelancers and the self-employed in Spain | Finance | Expatica Spain


I have just made my first quarterly return and my payments were deducted as expenses


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

You don't get it back; you don't have to pay it.
Have a read of this article which I think says that if you don't earn more than the minimum inter professional salary you don't have to pay the autónomo fee.
Hacerse autónomo o no con ingresos menores al salario mínimo | Infoautónomos


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

Pesky Wesky said:


> You don't get it back; you don't have to pay it.
> Have a read of this article which I think says that if you don't earn more than the minimum inter professional salary you don't have to pay the autónomo fee.
> Hacerse autónomo o no con ingresos menores al salario mínimo | Infoautónomos



but if you do not pay it, you will not get the health cover etc? off for a read


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

cambio said:


> but if you do not pay it, you will not get the health cover etc? off for a read


Ahh, good point. I suppose you don't, if you're not covered by a spouse.


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## AllHeart (Nov 22, 2013)

I didn't know about the low income! Wow that would be awesome! They're treating my back problems here in Spain, and I'm thinking I might be able to do a little work. I'm allowed to make 3800 euros annually gross on my disability pension, and that's probably about all my back will allow me to work. The autonomo fees are about 3200 euros annually. 

It's okay if I don't get health coverage, as I'm on public healthcare as a Spanish citizen.

So can I just go ahead and work, without registering as autonomo?


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## AllHeart (Nov 22, 2013)

cambio said:


> You do not get it back, but it counts towards tax deductions
> 
> Tax deductions
> You can claim deductions on your tax return for the following, provided you have a proper invoices and receipts:
> ...


I have very little overhead with this type of work. Thank you for that excellent article!


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

AllHeart said:


> I didn't know about the low income! Wow that would be awesome! They're treating my back problems here in Spain, and I'm thinking I might be able to do a little work. I'm allowed to make 3800 euros annually gross on my disability pension, and that's probably about all my back will allow me to work. The autonomo fees are about 3200 euros annually.
> 
> It's okay if I don't get health coverage, as I'm on public healthcare as a Spanish citizen.
> 
> So can I just go ahead and work, without registering as autonomo?


Best go to the professionals to ask, SEPE for example or a gestor who knows about autónomos
Servicio Público de Empleo Estatal


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## AllHeart (Nov 22, 2013)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Best go to the professionals to ask, SEPE for example or a gestor who knows about autónomos
> Servicio Público de Empleo Estatal


Awesome! Thank you.  I'll make an appt with SEPE, as I'd prefer to learn myself how systems work. It'll be a challenge in Spanish, but I'm up to the challenge.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

AllHeart said:


> Awesome! Thank you.  I'll make an appt with SEPE, as I'd prefer to learn myself how systems work. It'll be a challenge in Spanish, but I'm up to the challenge.


I'm sure you are up to it! You always go super prepared and double check everything that is said so I'm sure you'll understand. When you have more info, could you post it on the forum, please?


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## Chopera (Apr 22, 2013)

Pesky Wesky said:


> You don't get it back; you don't have to pay it.
> Have a read of this article which I think says that if you don't earn more than the minimum inter professional salary you don't have to pay the autónomo fee.
> Hacerse autónomo o no con ingresos menores al salario mínimo | Infoautónomos


Is this not a bit of a game-changer?

I mean one of the biggest reasons why people avoided becoming autonomo was that you had to pay a certain amount of money each month, regardless of your income for that month. If that's no longer the case then I guess the only obstacles left to becoming an autonomo are the excessive bureaucracy and people's honesty?


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

AllHeart said:


> Are the monthly autonomo fees refunded when you file a tax return? In other words, is this counted as tax paid? The reason I'm asking is I'm hoping to work part time self-employed in medical transcription, but the amount I would earn won't be much more than the autonomo fees. However, if this is returned when I file taxes, it will be worth it. Does anyone know, please?


Others have intimated this but no ones actually said it - so I will.

Autonomo payments are nothing to do with tax. They are Social Security payments like National Insurance in the UK.

They might be tax deductible like other expenses but they certainly aren't a tax.


[just saying in case others reading this get the wrong idea.]


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Chopera said:


> Is this not a bit of a game-changer?
> 
> I mean one of the biggest reasons why people avoided becoming autonomo was that you had to pay a certain amount of money each month, regardless of your income for that month. If that's no longer the case then I guess the only obstacles left to becoming an autonomo are the excessive bureaucracy and people's honesty?


I'm not sure, but I think this has always been the case...
However, I'm not putting my neck on the line about this. I'm certainly no expert on anything to do with money - not even spending it!

If anyone wants more info - go to the proper authorities!

I think the main problem is that a lot of people earn too much to not pay and too little to really make it worth their while. The _salario interprofesional _is really low, in my case 600€, so maybe someone in my position will earn 900€ and end up paying 270€ of that in autónomo payment giving a salary of 630€ - not a lot


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## AllHeart (Nov 22, 2013)

snikpoh said:


> Others have intimated this but no ones actually said it - so I will.
> 
> Autonomo payments are nothing to do with tax. They are Social Security payments like National Insurance in the UK.
> 
> ...


Thank you for explaining that.  So does anyone know if they're tax deductible, meaning these autonomo payments are not considered taxable income?


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## AllHeart (Nov 22, 2013)

Pesky Wesky said:


> I'm not sure, but I think this has always been the case...
> However, I'm not putting my neck on the line about this. I'm certainly no expert on anything to do with money - not even spending it!
> 
> If anyone wants more info - go to the proper authorities!
> ...


My Spanish isn't very good, and your article in Spanish, so I'm not sure I understand the article. But what I think it's saying is that there was a law passed in 2007 that said that if you make less than minimum wage, you don't have to pay the autonomo fees, but some people have tried to do this and they were not allowed to. Is that correct, more or less? 

This is what Advoco says about low income:

_*Exemption from autonomo social security:*

The only people who are exempt from paying social security are those that the law recognises as neither employed nor self-employed, in the sense of regularly offering their services as a main occupation. These are people paid for an irregular occasional activity or a one-off event. An example might be an academic on a salary, who is paid for occasional speaking engagements outside the university.

No one earning more than the Spanish minimum wage or Salario Minimo Interprofesional or "SMI" (€9,080 in 2015) can avoid paying social security and it should be noted that:

- if you don't pay into the system you won't get the benefits

- the key point is irregular : if you are demonstrably not an occasional autonomo (e.g. you open a shop or office or your service is permanently on offer) it is not possible to claim an exemption however low your income._

From here: Guide to Spain's autonomo system


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

AllHeart said:


> _
> 
> - the key point is irregular : if you are demonstrably not an occasional autonomo (e.g. you open a shop or office or your service is permanently on offer) it is not possible to claim an exemption however low your income._
> 
> From here: Guide to Spain's autonomo system


Hmmm, now I see it here I remember yes, I have heard this before, and this would be your situation, wouldn't it, so according to this you wouldn't be able to regularly *not* pay the autónomo fee.


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## AllHeart (Nov 22, 2013)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Hmmm, now I see it here I remember yes, I have heard this before, and this would be your situation, wouldn't it, so according to this you wouldn't be able to regularly *not* pay the autónomo fee.


I think you're correct. But what caught my eye is what you're saying - about making less than minimum wage:

_"No one earning more than the Spanish minimum wage or Salario Minimo Interprofesional or "SMI" (€9,080 in 2015) can avoid paying social security and it should be noted that..."_

So that would imply that if you're earning less than minimum wage, you don't have to pay the autonomo fee. Right? Or at least maybe?


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

AllHeart said:


> I think you're correct. But what caught my eye is what you're saying - about making less than minimum wage:
> 
> _"No one earning more than the Spanish minimum wage or Salario Minimo Interprofesional or "SMI" (€9,080 in 2015) can avoid paying social security and it should be noted that..."_
> 
> So that would imply that if you're earning less than minimum wage, you don't have to pay the autonomo fee. Right? Or at least maybe?


Well, that's what OH who is somewhat of an expert in these matters understands and in fact because I had to go back to the UK earlier in the year and lost a lot of earnings, that's what we will be claiming, but it's true that it's a one off, not a regular situation


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## AllHeart (Nov 22, 2013)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Well, that's what OH who is somewhat of an expert in these matters understands and in fact because I had to go back to the UK earlier in the year and lost a lot of earnings, that's what we will be claiming, but it's true that it's a one off, not a regular situation


Here's to hoping for both of us! :fingerscrossed:  I'll let you know what they say at my appt. It still might not be worth my while because, as I understand it, 90% of my income has to come from Canada in order to claim deductions from Canada, in which case I would owe almost as much in taxes in Canada as I would make in income here. I'll talk to the tax agency in Canada to see what they say.


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## Helenameva (Aug 15, 2014)

I'm no expert on this, but doesn't it say that if you are able to get a regular income, then you need to go autonomo, even if you are below the 9000€ threshold? So, a medical transcriber picking up work here and there on an ad hoc basis is okay, but a teacher with a regular timetable isn't.


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## AllHeart (Nov 22, 2013)

Helenameva said:


> I'm no expert on this, but doesn't it say that if you are able to get a regular income, then you need to go autonomo, even if you are below the 9000€ threshold? So, a medical transcriber picking up work here and there on an ad hoc basis is okay, but a teacher with a regular timetable isn't.


Where does it say that? I typically work for only one client on a regular basis, so that might apply to me.

Also, I'm wondering if the minimum wage includes all your income or just the autonomo income. Because if my pension and annuity are included, I'm over minimum wage. Things that make you go Hmmmm....? :confused2:


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## Helenameva (Aug 15, 2014)

AllHeart said:


> Where does it say that? I typically work for only one client on a regular basis, so that might apply to me.
> 
> Also, I'm wondering if the minimum wage includes all your income or just the autonomo income. Because if my pension and annuity are included, I'm over minimum wage. Things that make you go Hmmmm....? :confused2:


It's my interpretation of this statement you posted from the Advoco website



> - the key point is irregular : if you are demonstrably not an occasional autonomo (e.g. you open a shop or office or your service is permanently on offer) it is not possible to claim an exemption however low your income.


So if you pick up a few hours one week but nothing the next and then 20 hours the week after, to me that means you're an irregular earner. If, however, you have an agreement for 5 hours a week, you are regular.

The other thing you might want to check is if you are only working for one client. You might be deemed to be an employee rather than self employed. As I said, my interpretation, my opinion, I'm no expert, etc.


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## AllHeart (Nov 22, 2013)

Helenameva said:


> It's my interpretation of this statement you posted from the Advoco website
> 
> 
> 
> So if you pick up a few hours one week but nothing the next and then 20 hours the week after, to me that means you're an irregular earner. If, however, you have an agreement for 5 hours a week, you are regular.


Gotcha.



Helenameva said:


> The other thing you might want to check is if you are only working for one client. You might be deemed to be an employee rather than self employed. As I said, my interpretation, my opinion, I'm no expert, etc.


That's a good point, but the thing is this type of work is done as freelance, self-employed, not as an employee. I would love to land an employee contract though, to save me this autonomo headache. Maybe the stars are aligned in Spain....they have been so far.


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## Helenameva (Aug 15, 2014)

AllHeart said:


> That's a good point, but the thing is this type of work is done as freelance, self-employed, not as an employee. I would love to land an employee contract though, to save me this autonomo headache. Maybe the stars are aligned in Spain....they have been so far.


I was self employed in the UK and had to demonstrate to the tax man that my income was spread over several clients. They tightened the rules to stop people from setting up as self employed, which is much more beneficial for tax, and still work for just one company. Here, it doesn't seem to be beneficial to be self employed, but still, worth checking.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Helenameva said:


> I'm no expert on this, but doesn't it say that if you are able to get a regular income, then you need to go autonomo, even if you are below the 9000€ threshold? So, a medical transcriber picking up work here and there on an ad hoc basis is okay, but a teacher with a regular timetable isn't.


Yes, Allheart, that's what I meant when I said



Pesky Wesky said:


> Well, that's what OH who is somewhat of an expert in these matters understands and in fact because I had to go back to the UK earlier in the year and lost a lot of earnings, that's what we will be claiming, but it's true that it's a one off, not a regular situation


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## AllHeart (Nov 22, 2013)

Helenameva said:


> I was self employed in the UK and had to demonstrate to the tax man that my income was spread over several clients. They tightened the rules to stop people from setting up as self employed, which is much more beneficial for tax, and still work for just one company. Here, it doesn't seem to be beneficial to be self employed, but still, worth checking.


I was self-employed in Canada for the last 20 years, and in the beginning we had to show more than one client. But over time the government wasn't as strict about that. So it was the opposite in Canada. It may have been my field only, though, because the work started to be with agencies, and when you worked for any agency you typically worked for more than one hospital, i.e. technically more than one client. But that is another question I will ask here, as I don't know what the rules are in Spain.

I get healthcare with or without paying the autonomo fees, since I'm a Spaniard. But what is beneficial for me in paying the autonomo fees is that I will be eligible for a Spanish pension if I can work for 15 years. So that's beneficial to me.


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## AllHeart (Nov 22, 2013)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Yes, Allheart, that's what I meant when I said


When you said that, you quoted my question about low income. So I thought you meant that you were claiming low income and saying that it's the only time you've done this (a one off, not regular situation for you to be doing this). But I understand now.


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## gus-lopez (Jan 4, 2010)

AllHeart said:


> Where does it say that? I typically work for only one client on a regular basis, so that might apply to me.
> 
> Also, I'm wondering if the minimum wage includes all your income or just the autonomo income. Because if my pension and annuity are included, I'm over minimum wage. Things that make you go Hmmmm....? :confused2:


It includes every source of income. You would only comply if the income from the freelance occasional work was below the smi & the only income you had.


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## AllHeart (Nov 22, 2013)

gus-lopez said:


> It includes every source of income. You would only comply if the income from the freelance occasional work was below the smi & the only income you had.



 OK. Thanks.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Allheart, you said you have a pension from Canada - doesn't that count towards your income for tax purposes, since in Spain you are taxed on your worldwide income?


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## AllHeart (Nov 22, 2013)

baldilocks said:


> Allheart, you said you have a pension from Canada - doesn't that count towards your income for tax purposes, since in Spain you are taxed on your worldwide income?


Yes. My annuity is also from Canada and is also taxed in Spain. Like you say, it's worldwide income that Spain looks at.


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