# Elective surgery at IMSS



## Gatos (Aug 16, 2016)

I'm no novice when it comes to surgeries which require a hospital stay over the years. But it looks like I'm once again facing that very very soon and this time it will be at IMSS. I anticipate it will require a one night stay.

So my questions center around the actual experience. I understand my wife needs to be there during my stay. Do we need to bring our own pillows/blankets ? How about bottled water and food ? I'm hoping I can talk the surgeon into pre-prescibing at least a couple sleeping pills and perhaps a pain-killer or two. (I'm a big baby). With all this 'free' internet around Mexico these days I'm hoping I will have wireless access.

Anyone ever have a surgery at IMSS and care to share info regarding the experience ?


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## Anonimo (Apr 8, 2012)

Talk to your surgeon or his/her assistant.


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## lagoloo (Apr 12, 2011)

Anonimo said:


> Talk to your surgeon or his/her assistant.


Excellent way to go.
I've heard all manner of rumors about how this works, including that you have to have a person of the same sex as your helper, which, if true, eliminates your wife.


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## Gatos (Aug 16, 2016)

We meet with the surgeon tomorrow at 8AM. I was just trying to see what topics came up as a result of my post - so that I could incorporate them into the conversation. I'm pretty sure we've already had the conversation that my wife would be with me. Just like I was able to donate my own blood.

When we were married (eloped) - we pulled 2 witnesses off the street and had the taxi driver take the photos...


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## Gatos (Aug 16, 2016)

So - I'll attribute the lack of responses to my question to the fact that most of the people who frequent this site do not live in Mexico. This forum really is more - thinking of moving to Mexico someday, maybe. Thanks !


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

Gatos said:


> So - I'll attribute the lack of responses to my question to the fact that most of the people who frequent this site do not live in Mexico. This forum really is more - thinking of moving to Mexico someday, maybe. Thanks !


Au contraire. Many of us live in Mexico. Maybe the lack of response is that not that many use IMSS and have had elective surgery. I have IMSS, but have never had surgery.


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

I have lived in Mexico for 16 years and I have private insurrance so I do not know what happens at IMSS and on top of it IMSS is not the same everywhere from what I have seen .


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

Actually the people who have participated have been living in Mexico longer than 4 or 5 years..


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## AlanMexicali (Jun 1, 2011)

I have lived in Mexico since early 2006.


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

AlanMexicali said:


> I have lived in Mexico since early 2006.


Late 2007 for me.


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## Gatos (Aug 16, 2016)

IMSS did it to us again. Had an 8AM appointment with the surgeon. Got there at 7AM and was number 3 in the queue. At 7:45AM or so the woman arrived at the desk, called us up and said the surgeon was on vacation and his stand-in was out sick for the week. Oh - and there are no available appointment openings. She said we could go talk to the director of surgery, which we did and who wrote us a note saying we need an appointment. Took the note back to the woman at the desk - who was very unhappy that we had a note. In the end we did get a new appointment for next Wednesday.

I donated my own blood perhaps 3-4 months back. Last week I had the chest Xray and lab tests. This week I had the EKG and met with the internist for his go ahead blessing. Now, essentially, they have no doctors. We have a very nice GP and she sincerely cares but a person can waste a lot of time at IMSS - especially if I have to redo all the prep for surgery.

I had my first visit with this surgeon September 2015. He ordered some tests and told me to return in November. When I returned at that time they had run out of money and were not staffing the department until 2016. In February they told me to try some new medicine (and tests) and come back in four months. When we did he said - ok you need surgery - you need to complete this prep work. 

And you know - it isn't just me. There were quite a few people waiting to see the doctor at 8AM this morning.


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## lagoloo (Apr 12, 2011)

Me: over 12 years In Mexico. I have IMSS but have never used it. I'm hoping I never will need to, due to reports like yours I've heard too many times. My GP assures me that if I do need to for some very expensive treatment, he'll shepherd me through the process, but right now, I'm much more comfortable selecting my own treatments and doctors and paying out of pocket. Since I dropped Part B of Medicare all those years ago, I have a substantial "medical savings account" to take care of most problems.

Good luck on getting through this with a successful outcome.


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## Anonimo (Apr 8, 2012)

Sorry about that. Better luck next time around.


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## Gatos (Aug 16, 2016)

Well I guess I am the joven - been here 4 years. We started doing the same thing when we first got here. I think we were paying 1200 USD/month for insurance. I put that amount in its own separate account and was paying our medical expenses out of there. But the account got to be so large I stopped doing it. 

Last year I was having sinus issues. We started going down the path of having my deviated septum fixed at IMSS but the process wore us down and we opted to have the surgery out-patient at a very nice private hospital. 

Apparently there is a nice private hospital across town which caught my wife's eye. She just called and asked how much for a night's stay - 7000 pesos for a private room (excluding doctor's fees). They have a surgeon on staff who could perform my procedure. -- He is the same guy I was supposed to meet with at 8AM this morning


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## RVGRINGO (May 16, 2007)

I was concerned about the “elective“ part. Will IMSS even do that? (Chapala 2001-2014)


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## Gatos (Aug 16, 2016)

RVGRINGO said:


> I was concerned about the “elective“ part. Will IMSS even do that? (Chapala 2001-2014)


It is elective at the moment - but can turn into an emergency if not addressed soon. I have been putting it off for quite some time now. I used the word elective because I can drive myself to the hospital.

To me - the deviated septum procedure was elective as well. (In hindsight it made no difference either).


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

AlanMexicali said:


> I have lived in Mexico since early 2006.


I moved here to stay in September of 2007.


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## Gatos (Aug 16, 2016)

Isla Verde said:


> I moved here to stay in September of 2007.


Good to know ! And that recent gallbladder surgery you had - was that done at IMSS or SP or a private facility ? Were you required to bring someone to attend to you ? How was that experience over-all ?

Edit : Or did you return to the US for your surgery ?


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

Gatos said:


> Good to know ! And that recent gallbladder surgery you had - was that done at IMSS or SP or a private facility ? Were you required to bring someone to attend to you ? How was that experience over-all ?
> 
> Edit : Or did you return to the US for your surgery ?


I had the surgery done at a small private hospital in Mexico City run by Franciscan nuns, where my surgeon has a "consultorio". A pleasant, modest facility. I was told I needed to have someone stay with me overnight the day of the surgery. Having an operation is never fun, but things went well. Several friends visited me while I was interned, and another one came to pick me up on Sunday to take me home. I have some great friends here!

Returning to the US never crossed my mind. Why would it? I have not been paying for Medicare Part B, and there's no way I could afford a hospital stay in the US on my own.


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

We had 3 surgeries in Mexico and 4 stays in a hospital, a couple in Chiapas and two in Guadalajara and various procedures done as well, I cannot imagine going back to the States for surgery that can be done in Mexico.
My husband went to a private hospital that was nothing great in Chiapas and where it was a good thing I stayed with him and I went two two top hospitals in Guadalajara that were way better but in all hospitals we went to it is a good idea to have someone stay and pay attention to that is going on. 
Actually it is a good idea to have someone who is not sick stay on top of things anywhere in the world.


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## Gatos (Aug 16, 2016)

citlali said:


> We had 3 surgeries in Mexico and 4 stays in a hospital, a couple in Chiapas and two in Guadalajara and various procedures done as well, I cannot imagine going back to the States for surgery that can be done in Mexico.
> My husband went to a private hospital that was nothing great in Chiapas and where it was a good thing I stayed with him and I went two two top hospitals in Guadalajara that were way better but in all hospitals we went to it is a good idea to have someone stay and pay attention to that is going on.
> Actually it is a good idea to have someone who is not sick stay on top of things anywhere in the world.


We have a vet (who we visit much too often) who apparently comes from a very well respected family and whose father was a renowned vet (horses). I don't recall if it is a kidney stone or a gall stone but he is currently in Chaipas recovering from the surgery. I suspect he could have had the surgery done anywhere - but he chose there ..


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

Where in Chiapas? Tuxtla or Tapachula have better hospitals thanSan Cristobal. If I had a choice I would pick Guadalajara without hesitation but my husband surgery was an emergency on New Years´eve so no choice.
Obviously your vet has a relative there, My husband´s surgeon has relatives who come for surgery from Mexico city, so. what that does not make Chiapas a good place for surgery.
After experiencing two hospitals in San Cristobal I cannot say I would recommend them.. they do not even rate in our insurrance list..

I was remodelling the house when my husband had surgery and the maestro told me the hospital in San Andreas was the best, shirtly afer that he told me his friend had gone there and that it was a great hospital but unfortunately they had removed the s´leen instead of the gall bladder so his friend had died..so much for the recommendation..

Everyone is different..I have a friend from Tuxtla who went to Houston for a cataract surgery..she is from one of the very old Chiapaneca families has loads of money and Chiapas is not the place she chose for surgery even a minor one..


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## Gatos (Aug 16, 2016)

I'm afraid I will never be able to answer that question.

Our pets are like our children and we put total faith in this vet - even if at times his techniques seem a bit 'back woods'. We have had a very large red cat for 10+ years. He was the second most important thing in my life. Every night this cat would fall asleep in my arms. He would wrap his paws around my thumb and set his chin on top.

In July this year we had blood work done because the cat was losing weight. The vet said - change the food. We tried that. He did lab work and an ultra-sound. Did a poop test. Found worms and ecoli. Went down the path of dealing with those.

Today - I finally said no more - we took Max to the best vet hospital in the area. Turns out Max's body/organs were riddled with at least a dozen tumors. 

Mexico needs a mechanism - other than word of mouth - to help access the competency of its professionals.


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

I do not know about animals but my insurrance company has a pamphlet with all the hospital ratings by stae and Chiapas at the time I looked had one hospital that made the cut and it was in Tapachula 8 h drive from San Cristobal..


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## Gatos (Aug 16, 2016)

citlali said:


> I do not know about animals but my insurrance company has a pamphlet with all the hospital ratings by stae and Chiapas at the time I looked had one hospital that made the cut and it was in Tapachula 8 h drive from San Cristobal..


huh ?


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## Gatos (Aug 16, 2016)

citlali said:


> I do not know about animals but my insurrance company has a pamphlet with all the hospital ratings by stae and Chiapas at the time I looked had one hospital that made the cut and it was in Tapachula 8 h drive from San Cristobal..


We had to put the cat down.


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

I am sorry for your lost but that cat was a lucky cat, loved and put down before he suffered too much. He sounded like he had a good life while he lived.


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## ClinSpan (Feb 26, 2016)

Keep in mind, that the Internists' evaluation also has en "expiration date" for the purpose of surgery, as do your EKG's, blood work and chest X-Rays (I assume you had one done). It is not uncommon to see patients come in for their surgery, and have the anesthesiologist cancel the procedure.

Do you know who your anesthesiologist will be ? If not, talk to your internist or surgeon. Communication is key. We wish you the best of luck.


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## xolo (May 25, 2014)

I don't currently live in Mexico but I am doing research here in the _Archivo General de la Nación_ and I also will be in the field shortly. My daughter came close to dying in Mexico and she had emergency surgery but in a private clinic. Also it was some years ago.

I hope everything turns out well for you in your surgery. Un saludo


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## Gatos (Aug 16, 2016)

citlali said:


> I am sorry for your lost but that cat was a lucky cat, loved and put down before he suffered too much. He sounded like he had a good life while he lived.


Thanks. Ok - I'm going to set myself up for ridicule but so what - did I say Max was a very smart cat and that he and I were very close ? Our phone rarely rings before 10AM and hardly ever on a Sunday. The phone rang this morning at 4:30AM - the same time Max, regularly, used to make the rounds waking everyone up for breakfast. Just wierd...


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## ojosazules11 (Nov 3, 2013)

Gatos said:


> Thanks. Ok - I'm going to set myself up for ridicule but so what - did I say Max was a very smart cat and that he and I were very close ? Our phone rarely rings before 10AM and hardly ever on a Sunday. The phone rang this morning at 4:30AM - the same time Max, regularly, used to make the rounds waking everyone up for breakfast. Just wierd...


I also am sorry for your loss. While I have children and grandchildren, I am also very close to the canine and feline members of our family.

In terms of the phone ringing at 4:30 a.m., weird perhaps to some, but in Mexico and Latin America maybe not so much...

I can't find the exact quote right now, but I remember reading something in which Gabriel Garcia Marquez stated that what Europeans refer to as "magical realism" in Latin America "is simply our reality".


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## Gatos (Aug 16, 2016)

ojosazules11 said:


> I also am sorry for your loss. While I have children and grandchildren, I am also very close to the canine and feline members of our family.
> 
> In terms of the phone ringing at 4:30 a.m., weird perhaps to some, but in Mexico and Latin America maybe not so much...
> 
> I can't find the exact quote right now, but I remember reading something in which Gabriel Garcia Marquez stated that what Europeans refer to as "magical realism" in Latin America "is simply our reality".


We have no kids (thus no grand kids). We were both just so busy with our careers. So - my 'family' now is my wife and our remaining three cats - one of whom is Max's brother from the same litter. I'm having a hard time getting over losing Max. As are his brother and sisters. Perhaps we have had 15-20 cats over our 35+ year marriage. A few were very very special - and I grieved their loss - but I always had my work to deflect the pain. Max would gallop to me if I called his name - regardless of where he was or what he was up to. And he really did wake me up every morning by kissing me on the cheek.

Max was a huge cat. He easily stood over 3 feet tall if you grabbed his paws. And when he was healthy - even I at 6'2" and 220 lbs - had to prepare myself to lift him. 

Thanks for your kind sentiments.


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## Gatos (Aug 16, 2016)

Back to IMSS... Went today to see the surgeon. Got to IMSS at 7AM for an 8AM appointment. We were number 3 in the queue. Got in to see the surgeon around 9:30AM. He looked at all our paperwork and then added another form of his own requesting surgery. Then we had to visit another department (for another form) which we then had to bring to the chief of surgery - who took our paperwork and told us to come back in seven days for the date/time of surgery.


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## Gatos (Aug 16, 2016)

Returned to IMSS and got my date for surgery - Jan 12th - report at 6:30AM - don't eat/drink anything after 10PM the night before - take my blood pressure meds in the morning with a sip of water. We have to return to IMSS prior to that date and have our insurance validated. My wife can stay in the room with me but is only allowed to bring a sweater - no blanket or pillow. I will get a pillow. No food allowed. If they need to cancel they will call the day before. We should do the same. 

There were perhaps 30 people waiting to get their dates. (There is an advantage to having an American name - people remember seeing it - so when we arrived at the surgery office I said my name and the woman smiled and said - yes we have your paperwork completed). Some people were given dates into February.


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## Gatos (Aug 16, 2016)

Gatos said:


> We have no kids (thus no grand kids). We were both just so busy with our careers. So - my 'family' now is my wife and our remaining three cats - one of whom is Max's brother from the same litter. I'm having a hard time getting over losing Max. As are his brother and sisters. Perhaps we have had 15-20 cats over our 35+ year marriage. A few were very very special - and I grieved their loss - but I always had my work to deflect the pain. Max would gallop to me if I called his name - regardless of where he was or what he was up to. And he really did wake me up every morning by kissing me on the cheek.
> 
> Max was a huge cat. He easily stood over 3 feet tall if you grabbed his paws. And when he was healthy - even I at 6'2" and 220 lbs - had to prepare myself to lift him.
> 
> Thanks for your kind sentiments.


So - we recently took the remaining 3 cats to the vet for sonograms/blood test etc - just to be sure. They all passed with no issues. While there we asked if they ever have people looking for new homes for kittens. The phone rang later that afternoon - someone was looking for a new home for a boy/girl pair about 1 month old. So now we are back up to 5 indoor cats (rocky and dusty btw). I can't believe how much energy they have - and they are FEARLESS. Max - btw - is sitting atop the Christmas tree this year.

Guess I'm never going to get to live in a condo on the coast...


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## Altima (Dec 20, 2016)

As we prepare to retire in a few years, our two aging dogs and two cats are even more special to us. Whenever we say good-bye to a pet, we usually have another to help take the pain down a couple of notches; now we have promised not to bring another into the family until we know where we will stay in Mexico. 

As another animal lover, we feel your pain, and we are happy for you that you have another two new buddies to love and care for, and to marvel after.


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## Bobbyb (Mar 9, 2014)

My wife and I have had 4 surgeries in Mexico. All were done at a private hospital that is twinned to Baylor in Texas. Never once had a problem. I don't want to sound elitist but I would never undergo anything at an IMSS hospital. I understand that in some states they are OK. Not in Sonora!


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## lagoloo (Apr 12, 2011)

Bobbyb said:


> My wife and I have had 4 surgeries in Mexico. All were done at a private hospital that is twinned to Baylor in Texas. Never once had a problem. I don't want to sound elitist but I would never undergo anything at an IMSS hospital. I understand that in some states they are OK. Not in Sonora!


Okay....you do sound elitist. Own it and don't apologize. However, be aware that many, many others either are not eligible for private health insurance due to age or conditions, and for them, IMSS can be a lifesaver.


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## DiverSailor123 (Sep 17, 2016)

I have been following this thread and another like it on another board ( Yolisto ) this is exactly why we hesitate moving back to Mexico. ( _Last Time we were younger much younger and lets be honest , as you grow older you potential for Major Medical Care increases exponentially .... like it or not.. it has less and less to do with you and how you lived and more with DNA and Luck of the Draw_.. ) Honestly this is comparatively a nightmare.. You NEVER Know When you may need emergency health care/Surgery or even "elective" or better stated, a Non-emergency surgery. I recently had a total Knee replacement that was a walk in the park compared to what I have read on Mexico boards... 4 weeks later maybe it was even 5 or 6 while doing squats I ruptured a tendon and had to have emergency surgery. Again walk through the park.. Out Of Pocket $900
Elitist? No I disagree.. for over 25 years my friends both Mexicans and Expats have had very little good to say about IMSS ... 

Bobbyb: More to my point .. What was the name of the hospital you used ( _that is twinned to Baylor Texas and what causes you to believe that there is a direct connection? _) and in what city is that hospital in Mexico..



Bobbyb said:


> My wife and I have had 4 surgeries in Mexico. All were done at a private hospital that is twinned to Baylor in Texas. Never once had a problem. I don't want to sound elitist but I would never undergo anything at an IMSS hospital. I understand that in some states they are OK. Not in Sonora!


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## Gatos (Aug 16, 2016)

We lived in South Florida for about 30 years. A good part of that time we had medical insurance through my employers. Every year we had to decide what sort of coverage we wanted. When we chose the 'in-network' option things were always dicey. First off - few of the available doctors came from top-notch schools and a good number were retired from the Navy or such. The GP we have at IMSS currently is excellent - easily as good as any I had in the US.

We have been having this conversation a lot recently because I'm having surgery (at IMSS) in January. The procedure is kind of routine - the surgeon performs it 3 times a day. The same surgeon also has an office outside of IMSS and has a very good reputation. So - if we didn't have IMSS there is a chance this same guy would have been my surgeon.

The IMSS hospital in Mexico City is very well regarded - especially in the specialties. I was told by a (non-IMSS) cardiologist that if I ever did have a heart attack - have them take me to IMSS in Mexico City. A Mexican friend recently said he knew he had a cardiac issue. There is a small (free) bus which leaves our local IMSS hospital every morning and goes to IMSS in DF. 

We could have probably paid for our own health insurance in the US for the rest of our lives - but when we left I think we were paying like $14K/year. We could probably pay for our own private insurance here in Mexico for about half that. We chose IMSS and when/if needed we will pay for a procedure etc out of pocket.


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## AlanMexicali (Jun 1, 2011)

Bobbyb said:


> My wife and I have had 4 surgeries in Mexico. All were done at a private hospital that is twinned to Baylor in Texas. Never once had a problem. I don't want to sound elitist but I would never undergo anything at an IMSS hospital. I understand that in some states they are OK. Not in Sonora!


IMSS recently opened a state of the art full service large general hospital in Hermosillo so your info. is now outdated. They opened one the same as the one in Hermosillo in Cullican and another in Mazatlan recently.


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

I have several friends who had big intricate surgeries with IMSS in Guadalajara and they were very happy, I frankly think I would go t IMSS for surgeries rather than for small stuff ...but I have private insurrance so I do not have that choice now.Meanwhile in CHiapas I am happy with private insurrance..


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## Gatos (Aug 16, 2016)

citlali said:


> I have several friends who had big intricate surgeries with IMSS in Guadalajara and they were very happy, I frankly think I would go t IMSS for surgeries rather than for small stuff ...but I have private insurrance so I do not have that choice now.Meanwhile in CHiapas I am happy with private insurrance..


Yes - we have been told - from friends with personal knowledge - that IMSS is a tale of two different worlds. The actual 'hospital' part (where you would have surgery) is pretty decent. The front end (where you wait on line for hours to see a specialist) - well they have to work on that a little. We were required to change our IMSS 'clinica' this past January. At first we were upset because the new place was twice as far from our house. But in the end it was a change for the better - because the new clinica is much smaller and wait times much reduced.


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## lagoloo (Apr 12, 2011)

Having cancelled Part B of Medicare over 12 years ago when we moved to Mexico, we saved over $30,000 US. We pay for everything out of pocket and are way ahead so far. Our IMSS coverage is intended for serious medical needs such as heavy duty surgery or cancer treatment. Fingers crossed about that. Going to their 'clinica' is not desirable when we can visit our well qualified GP for $250 pesos per simple office visit. Having the IMSS coverage as a backup gives us a feeling of security since there are medical events we don't want to even think about paying for out of pocket.
Neither of us is young enough to get private insurance at a do-able price anyway, so that's not an option .


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## Bobbyb (Mar 9, 2014)

The Hospital in HMO has an addition. A bout 2 years ago. State of the Art?????? What about the lack of today's meds? What about running out of popular meds? What about 3rd world hygiene? If your Dr. wanted to put you on Remicade or Humira is it available?


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## AlanMexicali (Jun 1, 2011)

Bobbyb said:


> The Hospital in HMO has an addition. A bout 2 years ago. State of the Art?????? What about the lack of today's meds? What about running out of popular meds? What about 3rd world hygiene? If your Dr. wanted to put you on Remicade or Humira is it available?


https://translate.googleusercontent...27910/&usg=ALkJrhiYReqLB0ZufkKkUawwROiJKvQwkA

The news doesn´t agree with your assessment. Possibly you are thinking of some other hospital. 3rd. World hygiene is a stretch of the imagination. IMO.


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## DiverSailor123 (Sep 17, 2016)

World Health Organization’s Ranking of the World’s Health Systems | thepatientfactor.com
Read em and weep USA is only 37 and Mexico 61.. 





AlanMexicali said:


> https://translate.googleusercontent...27910/&usg=ALkJrhiYReqLB0ZufkKkUawwROiJKvQwkA
> 
> The news doesn´t agree with your assessment. Possibly you are thinking of some other hospital. 3rd. World hygiene is a stretch of the imagination. IMO.


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

It strikes me as sad that in the 21st century we are even having this conversation. My daughter lives in Germany and I can't remember ever discussing the cost of health care with her. She and her husband just go the doctor when they need to. They don't have to obsess over what and how much insurance to purchase or how to afford deductibles or copays. I had an accident on a bicycle trip there once. I needed some stitches in my jaw on a Sunday morning in some small town. A doctor came in, opened his clinic up, and stitched me up. It cost me nothing. 

The US has a long way to go. Mexico for all its problems does better than the US in providing affordable care. I don't know much about medical care in Canada, but from what I read it sounds like maybe it does the best of the three countries in balancing cost and quality of care.


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

Same in France. and they pay dearly for the system, there is all kinds of abuses and the benefits will be cut back if the right wins.. but they get so much more for their money than the US does..


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## DiverSailor123 (Sep 17, 2016)

The difference between the Cost in the USA and most if not all other countries is what Doctors Surgeons and Top Administrators are paid..


citlali said:


> Same in France. and they pay dearly for the system, there is all kinds of abuses and the benefits will be cut back if the right wins.. but they get so much more for their money than the US does..


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

yes doctors in France do not make the money the US doctors make..that is for sure. A Mexican friend of mine went to Houston to consult with a cancer specialist.. the tab for the interview was 800 dollars. My cousin just went to Paris to do the same thing and it was free. The French doctor probably got less than 100 dollars...and it was free for the patient.


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## DiverSailor123 (Sep 17, 2016)

Medically Speaking everything cost more here in the USA, its a "Free Market Enterprise" system.
No One Is Going to protect themselves with $1500 a month medical Insurance if Major surgery is only say, once or twice in a life time and less than $10,000.00 .
My recent (2016) simple , Total knee replacement with 1 night stay in the hospital LIST PRICED at $165,000.00 MSRP  ( IIRC ) The Insurance Mafia BCBS settled with the hospital on $85,000.00 and remember I said I had a $900 OPC Out of Pocket Cost. The same Procedure in Merida MX was, Cash IN Hand $5800.00 
It was actually to the Insurance Companies financial benefit that the Operation cost20 TIMES More in the USA.. The profit margins stays close to the same but actual Profits increase the higher the costs charged. As long as the REAL PEOPLE in control keep the Grass Roots portions of the two political parties :fencing: fighting THEY can continue to feed the monster ound: Insurance Companies are very powerful.. In 30 years I paid more than $100K in Home Owners Insurance and have gotten back less than $10K but unless you personally OWN your home etc etc free and clear you are _required_ to have Insurance by the Mortgage Holder.. Hummm a One Million Dollar Umbrella Liability Insurance was not required so I bought it very cheaply if I had my insurance needs covered by one company. 
If I didn't have Medical Insurance and I had to pay that $165K? I would have had 2 choices, get a mortgage or reduce my investment holdings $$ Hum, I make $12K a year on that kind of money.. Insurance Company got their money the bank got theirs Now I am paying out over half the income I was making on my savings and I now have to carry another insurance policy and I have to pay for that too.. :doh: Everyone else is happy and I lost $600 a month in income forever.. BUT that wasn't my story.. I had medical Insurance that I paid no where near $1500 a month for.. ( Long Story) IF a Foreign Born and Schooled Doctor can pass the required test etc etc to work in the USA he can often make 10 TIMES or more than what he was making at home.. Who wouldn't move? 


citlali said:


> yes doctors in France do not make the money the US doctors make..that is for sure. A Mexican friend of mine went to Houston to consult with a cancer specialist.. the tab for the interview was 800 dollars. My cousin just went to Paris to do the same thing and it was free. The French doctor probably got less than 100 dollars...and it was free for the patient.


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## Gatos (Aug 16, 2016)

A couple comments : We have lived virtually debt free all our 35 year marriage. We did have one tiny 15 year mortgage to help us purchase our first townhouse which we paid off off after a couple of years. After that we never purchased a house or car we couldn't pay cash for. We literally saved a fortune in mortgage interest AND we did self insure the house (not the cars obviously). That was money in the bank because we never had a real loss. Another thing - if we had had ins. on the house we would have had a deductible that might have been as high as 15-20K. And if we had had a mortgage we would have needed basic ins AND windstorm ins. AND flood ins. We also have driven all our cars at least 10 years. Never a penny in credit card interest. We both always had decent paying jobs.

A lot of hospitals / doctors will EAT a bill if you don't have insurance - even if you are not destitute. If they don't eat the entire amount, they will drop the charges to a very low level. It helps them from an accounting perspective to have a write off. A lot of people just don't think to ask for an adjustment.

I worked a lot of years for a wealthy guy who self insured the medical expenses for the entire company. He would reimburse ANY medical related expense as long as you had a receipt. He also had people working for him who would negotiate down the bills at times.


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## lagoloo (Apr 12, 2011)

Living debt free brings a great feeling of freedom. My spouse and I always lived "beneath our means" while we watched others max out their credit cards and take on breathtaking mortgages and car loans in order to appear to be higher on the status ladder.
This is a special form of madness, IMO, and we also watched some of those acquaintances crash and burn when they had a reversal of fortune. They didn't handle it well.

Medical costs in the U.S. are truly obscene, but the true disgrace is that the ranking (37) in quality of care is so low compared to other countries. Based on cost of care, it should be number one. If I get seriously ill.......I wanna go to #1...France! Greeat place to recuperate, too.


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## Gatos (Aug 16, 2016)

I should have mentioned that my wife and I are so debt-averse because we both - before we met - were dirt poor - even with college degrees. I went a spell earning $100/week and living in a trailer. My wife slept on the floor of a friend's living room. It really made savers out of us.


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## lagoloo (Apr 12, 2011)

Gatos said:


> I should have mentioned that my wife and I are so debt-averse because we both - before we met - were dirt poor - even with college degrees. I went a spell earning $100/week and living in a trailer. My wife slept on the floor of a friend's living room. It really made savers out of us.


I hear you loud and clear. I got so tired of peanut butter sandwiches that I can't stand the sight of one.


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