# Second Spanish Home



## ptjd (May 27, 2015)

Hola, been a while. Its been almost 1.5 years since we moved to Malaga and loving every bit. We renewed our Non- Lucrative visa here and plan to stay a long time. We have been traveling a lot and now considering buying another home in Spain (Bilbao/San Seb.). We bought our place in Malaga about a year before we moved here so familiar with that process. However, we have applied for our Convenio Especial and just received approval. Which bring me to my question: 

Since the public insurance is administered by Andalucia, can we use it in Basque country? 
I plan to keep my private insurance (Sanitas) for at least another year or 2 until we are comfortable with the Convenio Especial. Have not asked Sanitas if it would work in other regions of Spain yet.
We plan to live in Malaga as our primary home and use our secondary place 3-5 months/year. Is there any complications I am overlooking? (Padron, Taxes etc...)

Gracias!


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## Pstewy (Aug 23, 2013)

Can't help with your question but love Malaga, congrats on making the move.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

I'm no tax expert, but as far as I am aware, there is no additional tax to pay for simply owning a second home (except the direct taxes like IBI and refuse of course) unless you rent it out, then the income is IRPF.

You will not, however, be entitled to offset any costs of maintaining the second home in the tax return as you would with your main residence.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Overandout said:


> I'm no tax expert, but as far as I am aware, there is no additional tax to pay for simply owning a second home (except the direct taxes like IBI and refuse of course) unless you rent it out, then the income is IRPF.
> 
> You will not, however, be entitled to offset any costs of maintaining the second home in the tax return as you would with your main residence.


There is the imputed tax sometimes erroneously known as 'non-resident tax'. The tax that you pay on any property you own, anywhere, which isn't your primary residence.


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

xabiachica said:


> There is the imputed tax sometimes erroneously known as 'non-resident tax'. The tax that you pay on any property you own, anywhere, which isn't your primary residence.


Really? I though that was only for non-fiscal residents?

Glad I put in my disclaimer about not being an expert


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## Juan C (Sep 4, 2017)

Overandout said:


> I'm no tax expert, but as far as I am aware, there is no additional tax to pay for simply owning a second home .



In Spain imputed tax (sometimes known as holiday, or second home tax, form 210) is payable by non-residents on all property which they own in Spain. 

Residents must pay that tax on all properties they own (unless they are let and thus tax is paid on the rental income) which are in addition to their principle residence, no matter where the property is. That means in Spain or anywhere worldwide, 

Example: I own a lock-up garage in Spain, which is not part of my principle home; I pay the tax on that. We have a property outside Europe, which we do not let, and are obliged to pay the imputed tax in Spain on that property.


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

Juan C said:


> In Spain imputed tax (sometimes known as holiday, or second home tax, form 210) is payable by non-residents on all property which they own in Spain.
> 
> Residents must pay that tax on all properties they own (unless they are let and thus tax is paid on the rental income) which are in addition to their principle residence, no matter where the property is. That means in Spain or anywhere worldwide,
> 
> Example: I own a lock-up garage in Spain, which is not part of my principle home; I pay the tax on that. We have a property outside Europe, which we do not let, and are obliged to pay the imputed tax in Spain on that property.


Good info thanks.

I had honestly never thought that I may be liable for imputed tax on my garage spaces, they are in a communal underground garage built after the surrounding apartment blocks.

I wonder if the fact that only owners of the surrounding properties are entitled to buy the spaces means that the spaces count as part of the main residence? They do have individual catastro references....

Difficult times (morally speaking) to be considering if you should be paying more tax (considering what it is being spent on!).


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## Juan C (Sep 4, 2017)

In Addition to my last post (too late to edit it)

For tax residents in Spain there is also Patrimonio Tax (wealth tax) to pay if ones assets are over, I believe 1 million euros. 

I had not thought of this before but I guess that must apply to their total assets - worldwide-.


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## Juan C (Sep 4, 2017)

Overandout said:


> Good info thanks.
> 
> I had honestly never thought that I may be liable for imputed tax on my garage spaces, they are in a communal underground garage built after the surrounding apartment blocks.
> 
> ...


Only properties included in the same escritura as one’s principle home are not subject to imputed tax.


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## trotter58 (Feb 8, 2017)

Juan C said:


> Only properties included in the same escritura as one’s principle home are not subject to imputed tax.


Are you sure?

We're non residents and we've just paid our 1st imputed tax (so not experts by any means!). 
We have an apartment with one parking space on one escritura and an additional parking/store on another escritura. However, we have a catastral reference for each property. So we've had to fill out 3x modulo 210 forms each and hand them in to the bank. We also pay the Suma (IBI) for each catastral referenced property, again 3 forms.
The Spanish certainly love their paperwork.


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## Juan C (Sep 4, 2017)

trotter58 said:


> Are you sure?
> 
> :



When you say -parking 'space' I assume you mean a parking space within a garage, maybe in the basement.

Yes I am certain,


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## trotter58 (Feb 8, 2017)

Juan C said:


> When you say -parking 'space' I assume you mean a parking space within a garage, maybe in the basement.
> 
> Yes I am certain,


Yes, I'm referring to parking spaces & storage rooms within a basement, each with it's own catastral reference.

So you're certain that imputed tax (non-resident tax) is only applicable to the main escritura and not to the catastral properties within the escritura? The Suma show ibi due on each catastral reference in our case. Very strange!

Do you just receive one ibi bill for the combined catastral references or is there no catastral reference for your parking space?

Always willing to learn the vagaries of Spanish bureaucracy. 

******.......Just realised that you're Spanish resident and, of course, your main residence would not be subject to imputed (non resident) tax. ******* DOH!!!


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

trotter58 said:


> Are you sure?
> 
> We're non residents and we've just paid our 1st imputed tax (so not experts by any means!).
> We have an apartment with one parking space on one escritura and an additional parking/store on another escritura. However, we have a catastral reference for each property. So we've had to fill out 3x modulo 210 forms each and hand them in to the bank. We also pay the Suma (IBI) for each catastral referenced property, again 3 forms.
> The Spanish certainly love their paperwork.


That's because you're non-resident so ALL of your property in Spain is subject to the tax, because NONE of it is your principal residence.


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

xabiachica said:


> That's because you're non-resident so ALL of your property in Spain is subject to the tax, because NONE of it is your principal residence.


Even so, there must be thousands of parking spaces in Spain, which have individual catastral refernces but which are not having any imputed tax paid on them.

Makes you wonder why hacienda doesn't crack down? It would be easy money for them.

And I have never recieved an IBI, or refuse collection bill for my parking spaces.... I wonder if I should go to the ayuntamiento/ hacienda and ask them how to pay...eep:


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## Juan C (Sep 4, 2017)

Trotter, I have just read your post again,

My post was "In Spain imputed tax (sometimes known as holiday, or second home tax, form 210) is payable *by non-residents on all property which they own in Spain.
*


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## Juan C (Sep 4, 2017)

Overandout. 

Never mind about the tax on parking spaces, what about the probable thousands of tax residents, both Spanish and Non Spanish, who have failed to make a 720 declaration (assets over 50,000 Euros held outside Spain).

*That carries a minimum fine of 10,000 euros and a max of 150% *of the asset which has not been declared.


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

Juan C said:


> Overandout.
> 
> Never mind about the tax on parking spaces, what about the probable thousands of tax residents, both Spanish and Non Spanish, who have failed to make a 720 declaration (assets over 50,000 Euros held outside Spain).
> 
> *That carries a minimum fine of 10,000 euros and a max of 150% *of the asset which has not been declared.


I hear you. But filling in the 720 doesn't automatically imply a tax payable (I filled in the 720 every year when I had accounts in the UK, but never had to pay any tax apart from a very small amount of IRPF on the piddly interest). It is only getting caught that generates big bucks for the dictatorship, sorry, I meant government.


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## ptjd (May 27, 2015)

Thanks for the info on the taxes. We have a Spanish accountant here in Malaga as we filed this year and also submitted our Modelo 720.
Any idea on the Health Insurance? 
Gracias


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

Overandout said:


> And I have never recieved an IBI, or refuse collection bill for my parking spaces.... I wonder if I should go to the ayuntamiento/ hacienda and ask them how to pay...eep:


If it doesn't have a water supply, you don't pay basura (at least not in the province of Valencia).

Don't know the rules for IBI other than it's payable on ANY property even if it's uninhabitable (no water, no electric, no roof etc. etc.)


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

snikpoh said:


> If it doesn't have a water supply, you don't pay basura (at least not in the province of Valencia).
> 
> Don't know the rules for IBI other than it's payable on ANY property even if it's uninhabitable (no water, no electric, no roof etc. etc.)


Our garage is a "stand alone" building with its own water supply, toilets and rubbish bins. I have no idea who pays for this or how, but I suppose the water is paid communally on a pro-rata basis with the funds from the community charge.

But the IBI and refuse tax is beginning to scare me the more I read of this thread! If I have never received a bill since buying the spaces, I doubt the previous owners did either!

Maybe I should bite the bullet and ask the question, I am taking the ex-owner and estate agent to court about another issue anyway, maybe if I find out that there is 45 years of IBI outstanding I can add that to my case!!!


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## Juan C (Sep 4, 2017)

Overandout

Usually in Spain (maybe always) debts can only be back-dated 4 years from when the person/authority making the claim takes action to give notice of the debt. That might mean a notice was sent your last known address. It that case the debt can be back-dated, No such action then just back dated a maximum of 4 years

That applies to taxes, both by Hacienda and local authorities.

For example inheritance tax is often 'avoided' by not notifying the tax office of the death. Of course of you do not get away with it for the full 4 years then you pick up fines too.

Many people also get away with capital gains tax in the same way. Hacienda are, or at least were, very poor at checking property sales. 

Fifteen years ago I was given bad advice by a gestor which meant I did not declare a capital gain on a house sale in the period allowed. When I discovered the error, after a couple of years, my accountant said there was a standard fine of half a million pesetas for late submission, which was not negotiable. However, if Hacienda discovered the error then the fine was heavily negotiable. I took his advice and payment was never demanded,

PS I am not advocating this !!!!


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

Thanks Juan C, I value your input, but I think I am right in that the period of prescription of debts (at least to Hacienda) was raised in the same law that introduced the Modelo 720 reporting, from 4 years to 7, and in some cases, unlimited.

The 4 year rule is derrogated.

I know this is sure in at least one case, becuase I also fell foul to a liability because of ignorance, and was counting the days until I was free!!


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## Juan C (Sep 4, 2017)

Thanks overandout


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