# moving to spain



## karenangell (Feb 6, 2011)

Hello to everyone.

We are moving to spain in september. We have been planning it for years, however no amount of planning will mean that it will work out living there is the only way we shall be able to see that. We are going over to live there for a year, we will be renting our home here in england which we own outright and we will be using that rent to pay for our rent in spain. My husband has a business in england where IT WILL STAY as I have read about the economic situation in spain. We take a nice income from that and his business is very successfull. We have a five year old whom we will put in school and we look at it like if we dont try it we will live to regret it. There are lots of people on here who seem to be saying very negative things about living in spain, then why are they still living there. We have never been rich, but as long as we have enough food in the cupboards and can go out once or twice a week to have quality time with our family then that suits us. The weather does pay an important part of the attraction to spain of course. We will find out for ourselves, we have nothing to loose, as we can go back to england if it doesnt work out, and we will have gained a year in a different culture, maybe speak spanish and holiday there in the future so we are looking forward to september.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

karenangell said:


> Hello to everyone.
> 
> We are moving to spain in september. We have been planning it for years, however no amount of planning will mean that it will work out living there is the only way we shall be able to see that. We are going over to live there for a year, we will be renting our home here in england which we own outright and we will be using that rent to pay for our rent in spain. My husband has a business in england where IT WILL STAY as I have read about the economic situation in spain. We take a nice income from that and his business is very successfull. We have a five year old whom we will put in school and we look at it like if we dont try it we will live to regret it. There are lots of people on here who seem to be saying very negative things about living in spain, *then why are they still living there.* We have never been rich, but as long as we have enough food in the cupboards and can go out once or twice a week to have quality time with our family then that suits us. The weather does pay an important part of the attraction to spain of course. We will find out for ourselves, we have nothing to loose, as we can go back to england if it doesnt work out, and we will have gained a year in a different culture, maybe speak spanish and holiday there in the future so we are looking forward to september.



Simple answer: in our case,because we have no money worries, aren't looking for work and have no dependents.
I have pointed out many times that people in the same position will have no problems emigrating to Spain.


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## Seb* (Mar 22, 2009)

mrypg9 said:


> Simple answer: in our case,because we have no money worries, aren't looking for work and have no dependents.
> I have pointed out many times that people in the same position will have no problems emigrating to Spain.


In our case: we are on our way out


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Seb* said:


> In our case: we are on our way out



Sorry to hear that, Seb.....Hopefully we won't lose your posts as it's helpful hearing a German perspective on things.


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## Seb* (Mar 22, 2009)

mrypg9 said:


> Sorry to hear that, Seb.....Hopefully we won't lose your posts as it's helpful hearing a German perspective on things.


I'm sure I will do a Jojo and keep haunting these halls  Will be leaving in 3 weeks.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Seb* said:


> I'm sure I will do a Jojo and keep haunting these halls  Will be leaving in 3 weeks.



May I ask.....back to Germany?


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## Seb* (Mar 22, 2009)

mrypg9 said:


> May I ask.....back to Germany?


Back to the UK


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

In reply to the OP's question as to why in spite of our describing the situation here as it is, we still live here, I have explained my position.

There are however reasons which apply to some people I know who want to move to the UK but can't....

Many people bought properties here which are now worth less than half what they paid for them. They have lost their jobs or because of low exchange rates their incomes have declined. They can no longer afford their mortgage repayments and can't sell their properties as there is a glut of property currently for sale.
Some people simply came with no real plan and insufficient means.
Some people had businesses which failed or jobs which they lost. No generous welfare payments as in the UK, so many are literally on the breadline.

Those of us with no money worries are fortunate indeed. That does not however lead us to ignore the very real plight of far too many here, both Spanish and immigrant, who are not in our position. 

What we are reporting is the sad truth. We know because we live here and many of us experience the hard facts of life for too many people on a daily basis.

Just a few examples: in my tiny village, near prosperous towns such as Marbella, Caritas is opening a soup kitchen...
Just come back from shopping: a destitute German guy, eating a baguette, begging for money for a ticket home outside Mercadona...
Then the woman washing her bed linen etc. in the river yesterday.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Seb* said:


> I'm sure I will do a Jojo and keep haunting these halls  Will be leaving in 3 weeks.


 HHHmmmmmm!!!  I cant keep off the forum cos it keeps me in touch with Spain. 

We're back in the UK cos my husband got fed up with commuting (he kept his business in the UK), my son felt the A-level courses at his international school were very limited and our tenants moved out of our UK house and we didnt want the hassle of re-renting!! However, we are planning to rent in Spain for the summer. It has to be said that our time in spain was without doubt the most stressful I have ever had. The winter weather was and is atrocious in Spain, torrential rain, floods, landslides, wind damage, power cuts, no heating, unable to get out of the house for a good week or two........... We missed my husband, my son tore his ligament, broke his arm, I broke my leg, my dog died due to us being stranded for weeks in floods. Husband couldnt come over for a few weeks due to snow, floods, ash clouds, work commitments, so that left me with two teenagers, I couldnt get any work........... I still loved living there, but I find it hard to link the words "Spain" and "relaxing" in the same sentence lol!!!!!!

Jo xxx


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

karenangell said:


> Hello to everyone.
> 
> We are moving to spain in september. We have been planning it for years, however no amount of planning will mean that it will work out living there is the only way we shall be able to see that. We are going over to live there for a year, we will be renting our home here in england which we own outright and we will be using that rent to pay for our rent in spain. My husband has a business in england where IT WILL STAY as I have read about the economic situation in spain. We take a nice income from that and his business is very successfull. We have a five year old whom we will put in school and we look at it like if we dont try it we will live to regret it. There are lots of people on here who seem to be saying very negative things about living in spain, then why are they still living there. We have never been rich, but as long as we have enough food in the cupboards and can go out once or twice a week to have quality time with our family then that suits us. The weather does pay an important part of the attraction to spain of course. We will find out for ourselves, we have nothing to loose, as we can go back to england if it doesnt work out, and we will have gained a year in a different culture, maybe speak spanish and holiday there in the future so we are looking forward to september.


I dont know your full situation

I will only say that as regards your business .... it may well stay in the UK, but your income will be taxable here

As I say, I dont know your full circumstances, but dont assume you have the choice of where you are taxed. You will become a tax resident here, and you will be expected to pay taxes here on income, whether it be here, the UK or timuktu 

Septembers a good month to move, you wont bew doing your first tax return until 18 months after that here


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## gus-lopez (Jan 4, 2010)

Also remember that after 90 days you'll have to register as a resident & under the new rules, 24th april see below, are required to have private health insurance & supply a letter from the bank stating that you have enough income to support yourselves . in addition to the previous paperwork.

http://www.boe.es/boe/dias/2012/04/24/pdfs/BOE-A-2012-5403.pdf


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

karenangell said:


> There are lots of people on here who seem to be saying very negative things about living in spain, then why are they still living there. .


I think the negative things that are being said on here are simple facts! Europe is in crisis, Spain has been hit hard and is in trouble!! Finding work in spain is almost impossible and there are no social benefits for those who havent paid into the Spanish system. Thats not the sort of negativity that is said out of a desire to leave, its simply how things are. When people come onto the forum and ask about living and working, they need to know this dont you think. Those who post on here are people who have, in the main lived in Spain for a long time and its their home, they dont want to go back. Many dont need to make an income as they have pensions etc. There are also lots of folk who cant sell their houses and so cant go back. . But that fact remains its a country in crisis and doesnt have the same safety nets as we do in the UK

Jo xxx


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

gus-lopez said:


> & supply a letter from the bank stating that you have enough income to support yourselves . in addition to the previous paperwork.
> 
> http://www.boe.es/boe/dias/2012/04/24/pdfs/BOE-A-2012-5403.pdf


That would be a break of European Law then, and I dont see how it would / could be enforceable as members of the EU have the right to live and work wherever they like in the EU ....... theoretically


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## gus-lopez (Jan 4, 2010)

Stravinsky said:


> That would be a break of European Law then, and I dont see how it would / could be enforceable as members of the EU have the right to live and work wherever they like in the EU ....... theoretically


I agree, you can't ask for something that is not required of a spanish national.

Oh it gets worse ! 

One lady went to renew residencia , in Baza, on the 30th & was turned away with the above info. A retired couple went to Almeria on the 24th & were not only told the same but given a printed sheet, in english, stating the above new requirements plus the last line said "English cannot work " !! :rofl: You can't make it up !
One lady on the forum who is in regular contact with the EU is chomping at the bit for a copy & to get yet another complaint in.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Stravinsky said:


> That would be a break of European Law then, and I dont see how it would / could be enforceable as members of the EU have the right to live and work wherever they like in the EU ....... theoretically


We had to prove that we had the means to support ourselves when we applied for resident ststus in the Czech Republic...It isn't the case that all EU states members hjave the right to move to work in other EU states. Only the UK and the ROI allowed unrestricted entry to the post-Socialist bloc state members when the joined the EU in 2004. The other states imposed quotas, as I understand the UK and Spain have done with citizens of Romania.


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

I have asked someone that I know is genned up on the subject. They tell me that Spain are quite within their rights under EU law to do this.

I'm contacting the UK consulate for advice on this, for even though I believe the person I contacted, I cant believe that the EU would allow this to be acceptable


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## maxwellmouse (Apr 4, 2012)

Hi,I have been reading various posts about moving to Spain. I've been thinking about the move for two years now. We have finally rec'd an offer on our house,which we have accepted today. I am 56,and through no fault of my own lost my job 2months ago. The last time I "signed on" I was told by the guy that they were probably going to "get me back into work,you have a lot of experience,shame to waste it" This guy then goes on to tell me that it's 30hrs a week,at this point I asked what I was going to be paid?....."Well nothing but you'll still get your benefits" Mmm! So,in my view this country is now going back to a similar sort of practice that was abolished 200 years ago,and rightly so,William Wilberforce spent years of his life campaigning against it...it was called slavery.
My income at the moment does not cover my out-goings.I cannot afford to live in my house,but if I sell it I will be able to afford to buy a house in Spain and have approx £35,000 in the bank. My alternative is to buy another property here,a 2up/2down,with people either side of me who don't give a damn,because they are renting. I live in a city that has 2 uni's and a very high % of economic migrant workers,and they do have jobs....but I don't!!!??? Sorry if this sounds a bit savage,but that is my situation. So my question is..am I totally stupid considering a move to Spain ? I'm looking to go inland,and I am positive that I will not find a job...and I don't speak Spanish either...I will understand if you don't allow me to post this.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

maxwellmouse said:


> Hi,I have been reading various posts about moving to Spain. I've been thinking about the move for two years now. We have finally rec'd an offer on our house,which we have accepted today. I am 56,and through no fault of my own lost my job 2months ago. The last time I "signed on" I was told by the guy that they were probably going to "get me back into work,you have a lot of experience,shame to waste it" This guy then goes on to tell me that it's 30hrs a week,at this point I asked what I was going to be paid?....."Well nothing but you'll still get your benefits" Mmm! So,in my view this country is now going back to a similar sort of practice that was abolished 200 years ago,and rightly so,William Wilberforce spent years of his life campaigning against it...it was called slavery.
> My income at the moment does not cover my out-goings.I cannot afford to live in my house,but if I sell it I will be able to afford to buy a house in Spain and have approx £35,000 in the bank. My alternative is to buy another property here,a 2up/2down,with people either side of me who don't give a damn,because they are renting. I live in a city that has 2 uni's and a very high % of economic migrant workers,and they do have jobs....but I don't!!!??? Sorry if this sounds a bit savage,but that is my situation. So my question is..am I totally stupid considering a move to Spain ? I'm looking to go inland,and I am positive that I will not find a job...and I don't speak Spanish either...I will understand if you don't allow me to post this.


I can understand your frustration..............

BUT - that 35,000 won't last the rest of your life - there is even less chance of you finding work in Spain as you quite rightly say, & when that money runs out - that's it - no state help

just an idea...... buy that 2up2down - rent it out to students - use that rental money to pay rental on something here

that way you have something to go back to if you have to.......

you'd still need to do your sums properly - factor in private health care too - it _might_ be possible - you could at least try it for a while?


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

maxwellmouse said:


> Hi,I have been reading various posts about moving to Spain. I've been thinking about the move for two years now. We have finally rec'd an offer on our house,which we have accepted today. I am 56,and through no fault of my own lost my job 2months ago. The last time I "signed on" I was told by the guy that they were probably going to "get me back into work,you have a lot of experience,shame to waste it" This guy then goes on to tell me that it's 30hrs a week,at this point I asked what I was going to be paid?....."Well nothing but you'll still get your benefits" Mmm! So,in my view this country is now going back to a similar sort of practice that was abolished 200 years ago,and rightly so,William Wilberforce spent years of his life campaigning against it...it was called slavery.
> My income at the moment does not cover my out-goings.I cannot afford to live in my house,but if I sell it I will be able to afford to buy a house in Spain and have approx £35,000 in the bank. My alternative is to buy another property here,a 2up/2down,with people either side of me who don't give a damn,because they are renting. I live in a city that has 2 uni's and a very high % of economic migrant workers,and they do have jobs....but I don't!!!??? Sorry if this sounds a bit savage,but that is my situation. So my question is..am I totally stupid considering a move to Spain ? I'm looking to go inland,and I am positive that I will not find a job...and I don't speak Spanish either...I will understand if you don't allow me to post this.



Er... slavery is when you dont get paid and you dont get a choice. You are getting JSA I assume! Thats payment and you can say no. I had the same thing, I went onto JSA when I arrived back in the UK - a wonderful safety net that I wasnt offered in Spain and yes, I did get a job during the time I claimed it - its probably a job that I'm over qualified for, but its work and it stops me being bored. You wont get that choice or chance in Spain! You would be much better off financially if you stay in the UK. Spain is a harsh country. Your rental maybe cheaper, but if you dont have a contracted job you will have no free healthcare (so private health car is a must), no benefits, no help and your £35000 wont last till you retire so then what??? 

I am back in the UK now and altho I love Spain its not as easy or soft as the UK. By all means go there, but dont knock the UK and dont go to Spain for the easy option - it isnt!


Jo xxx


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## gus-lopez (Jan 4, 2010)

Stravinsky said:


> I have asked someone that I know is genned up on the subject. They tell me that Spain are quite within their rights under EU law to do this.
> 
> I'm contacting the UK consulate for advice on this, for even though I believe the person I contacted, I cant believe that the EU would allow this to be acceptable


Neither can I. 
What happens to those who have permanent residencia , they can't ask them to leave as that's totally against eu rules. 

What happens to those who , for whatever reason , failed to apply for residencia before the change & now wouldn't obtain it under the new rules but own & live here ? Do they revert to tourist status & are going to be asked to leave every 90 days ? I can't see that that is legal under EU rules as they state that you are/can be resident regardless of paperwork !

As for "existing medical cards will run until august & then be rescinded & you will have to apply again " I can't see that happening either as when our daughter , a resident left in 2006, she retained medical cover / card until october 2011 !
We've only recently got computers in the surgeries here. There are no 'chips' in the cards, nor is there a connection to appointments between the surgeries & hospital or the Farmácias !

Looks on the cards to be another utter shambles , imho.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

gus-lopez said:


> Neither can I.
> What happens to those who have permanent residencia , they can't ask them to leave as that's totally against eu rules.
> *
> What happens to those who , for whatever reason , failed to apply for residencia before the change & now wouldn't obtain it under the new rules but own & live here * ? Do they revert to tourist status & are going to be asked to leave every 90 days ? I can't see that that is legal under EU rules as they state that you are/can be resident regardless of paperwork !
> ...


I was wondering exactly that - I was talking to someone on a local fb group yesterday who didn't know that they had to register as resident - they have NIEs & are on the padrón & their kids are in school here

they've been told that they need the green cert to buy a car, so are now going to register - what if they aren't allowed to? What about their kids and school?


what about people in my situation? We have the green 'permanent' certs (well I can't find mine :confused2 I pay autónomo & we have healthcare - am I about to lose our cover & be told I'm not allowed to work


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## Seb* (Mar 22, 2009)

What is happening in Spain at the moment is very clear to me. The country is going down fast and the local governments were just told that they have wasted too much money on foreigners, that did not have the right for full health care in Spain. 

So what happens now is that they came up with the new rules (prove of income and health insurance), if not employed. This is basically what the UK has been practising until now (they got told off for that now and will revert it). So now a lot of local ayuntamientos start to panic and come up with their own rules, like we read a lot lately on here and are very reluctant to hand out residencias, padróns etc. to foreigners.

What will happen next is, that someone has to complain to the EU, which will slap the Spanish government and enforce an amendment. This then has to filter down to the autonomous governements (like Valencia) and then further down to the local Ayuntamiento. This is Spain for you and has to be expected 

Spain will not start to deport EU nationals. They have never done it before and they won't in the future. The whole thing is a knee jerk reaction by a country that is in big trouble financially. Hundrets of thousands of "residents" have been living in Spain without residencia and padron for decades! An easy obtainable NIE number made it possible for these "long-term tourist" to permanently live here. Some sneaky individuals even managed to get on the padrons and health system without the residence permit (or any right to health care) 

What is the impact on newcomers and people without residencia? Mostly it is inconvenience, which means in some cases it gets harder to buy a car etc. If you pay into the system you won't have any problems. What happens to the pensioners has to be seen long term, but here as well I don't see a reason to panic. The group of people who have to worry are those who just come down here with the intend to "do anything" and find a better life with all of 3k GBP in savings - for those people it just got a hell more complicated! The reality is starting to catch up with the "paradise that is Spain". People have to realise that the times of "do what you like and get away with it" in Spain are coming to an end.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Seb* said:


> What is happening in Spain at the moment is very clear to me. The country is going down fast and the local governments were just told that they have wasted too much money on foreigners, that did not have the right for full health care in Spain.
> 
> So what happens now is that they came up with the new rules (prove of income and health insurance), if not employed. This is basically what the UK has been practising until now (they got told off for that now and will revert it). So now a lot of local ayuntamientos start to panic and come up with their own rules, like we read a lot lately on here and are very reluctant to hand out residencias, padróns etc. to foreigners.
> 
> ...


you're right on all counts I reckon

& no, I can't see them telling me I can't work, pay into the system etc. etc........ but who knows for sure??

I know quite a lot of people who have SIPS from back in the days when everyone could get one in Valencia - they don't & never have paid anything into the system - & up til now they haven't actually been breaking any rules......some even managed to get them renewed!!

those are the people who I guess all this is aimed at really - but when you read reports of Brits going to register & being told they aren't allowed to work it makes you wonder!!


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

karenangell said:


> Hello to everyone.
> 
> We are moving to spain in september. We have been planning it for years, however no amount of planning will mean that it will work out living there is the only way we shall be able to see that. We are going over to live there for a year, we will be renting our home here in england which we own outright and we will be using that rent to pay for our rent in spain. My husband has a business in england where IT WILL STAY as I have read about the economic situation in spain. We take a nice income from that and his business is very successfull. We have a five year old whom we will put in school and we look at it like if we dont try it we will live to regret it. There are lots of people on here who seem to be saying very negative things about living in spain, then why are they still living there. We have never been rich, but as long as we have enough food in the cupboards and can go out once or twice a week to have quality time with our family then that suits us. The weather does pay an important part of the attraction to spain of course. We will find out for ourselves, we have nothing to loose, as we can go back to england if it doesnt work out, and we will have gained a year in a different culture, maybe speak spanish and holiday there in the future so we are looking forward to september.


Hi,
well for me living here and being settled here before and during "The Crisis" is completely different from wanting to come now. Particularly because most people want to move to Spain to better their life - few want to willingly lower their life contentment level...!
As I'm sure you know, I am one of the people who usually (but by no means always) advises people to stay away from Spain at the moment. For me it just so transparently clear. If you want work, money, stability and you have a responsibility to others in your life what on earth are you doing considering a move to Spain? Singles, the financially secure more "mature" person, people with loads of money or a sure fire UK business for example are among those that I'd say try it out and see how it goes.
As for me, I've made my bed and I've got to lie on it - and I'm quite happy to do so for the moment, but both my husband's and my job are shaky, but we're also over 50's. Would the situation be better for us elsewhere? I v much doubt it. My daughter will hopefully be starting uni in October, and what will her prospects be when she's finished? I'd love to say we'll be over the crisis, but will we? etc etc
Conclusion. I stay because I like it and because my life/ home is here. I don't just fill a space - I live in Spain. But suggesting that others come here is a completely different story IMO. 
However only the person making the move knows their capacities, life story, background etc so of course it's up to each individual to make up their own mind.


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## karenangell (Feb 6, 2011)

Thank you for the reply, you said about paying tax, i dont really understand as i will be a housewife looking after the home ect and my husband will be commuting three days a week so why do we have to pay tax, and how much will it be we dont earn a huge income.


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

karenangell said:


> Thank you for the reply, you said about paying tax, i dont really understand as i will be a housewife looking after the home ect and my husband will be commuting three days a week so why do we have to pay tax, and how much will it be we dont earn a huge income.


You mention he will commute 3 days a week. That means he will be here in Spain for 4 days a week, i.e. 208 days a year? (Which would make it his main place of residence)


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## Seb* (Mar 22, 2009)

karenangell said:


> Thank you for the reply, you said about paying tax, i dont really understand as i will be a housewife looking after the home ect and my husband will be commuting three days a week so why do we have to pay tax, and how much will it be we dont earn a huge income.


As soon as your husband lives more than 183 days here he has to pay taxes on his income in Spain, so if he is 3 days out of each week in the UK he will still spend only 152 days outside of the country and will be viewed as tax resident.

I am no tax expert and can't tell you much about tax rates and how it works. There are some people around here who might be able to chip in. It's not easy or straight forward and you will need help with that from an accountant / good gestoria.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

karenangell said:


> Thank you for the reply, you said about paying tax, i dont really understand as i will be a housewife looking after the home ect and my husband will be commuting three days a week so why do we have to pay tax, and how much will it be we dont earn a huge income.


it's fairly complicated if you have an income from the UK but live in Spain - but bottom line, is that if you live here you have to do a tax declaration - your husband will be resident here, no?


I'm not entirely sure how it works, but you don't actually have to pay the tax twice, although if the allowance is lower in Spain you have to pay some here


the best thing would be to contact the DWP in Newcastle to get a definitive answer - I did read somewhere recently that if you're going gto be here less than 2 years there's a way of continuing to pay tax in the UK rather than in Spain :confused2:


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

My husband WASNT a resident in spain he just visited. I was the resident. But he (unfortunately) had to make sure that he was in the UK more than in spain and had to keep tickets etc to prove it, altho no one checked, they could have done. The upside meant that he was still able to claim child allowance from the UK as he was paying tax and NI

Jo xxx


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

Stravinsky said:


> You mention he will commute 3 days a week. That means he will be here in Spain for 4 days a week, i.e. 208 days a year? (Which would make it his main place of residence)


Maybe I should elaborate

_You_ will be living here full time, so you will need to sign on the foreigners list and obtain an NIE. You will be tax resident here in Spain, and it is recommended that you put in a tax return, even if it is a zero rate return.

I still dont know your husbands circumstances. Is it a limited company? Is it a sole tradership? Or is he an employee.

Whichever, it seems that his main place of residence will be Spain, and if I'm not mistaken (unless individual circumstances change this) he will therefore become tax resident in Spain and be required to submit a tax return. Did you research all this before you decided to come here?

You realise you will have no health cover here under the circumstances you described?


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Stravinsky said:


> Maybe I should elaborate
> 
> _You_ will be living here full time, so you will need to sign on the foreigners list and obtain an NIE. You will be tax resident here in Spain, and it is recommended that you put in a tax return, even if it is a zero rate return.
> 
> ...


If her husband is paying NI in the UK, there is a reciprocal agreement between our two countries. I think they will need to fill in an S1 form??? Lynn who posts on her occasionally is the expert on that lol!!!! 

But I believe he will need to have a permanent address in the UK if he wishes to be considered as living there??? I'm not sure, but thats how we did it. I was resident in spain and everything was in my name there, I had the NIE etc. He was simply a visitor  We didnt fill in any tax forms in Spain tho!!??? However, he had to have a non resident bank account there and I had the main account which he fed money into periodically lol!!!

Jo xxx


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

jojo said:


> If her husband is paying NI in the UK, there is a reciprocal agreement between our two countries. I think they will need to fill in an S1 form??? Lynn who posts on her occasionally is the expert on that lol!!!!
> 
> But I believe he will need to have a permanent address in the UK if he wishes to be considered as living there??? I'm not sure, but thats how we did it. I was resident in spain and everything was in my name there, I had the NIE etc. He was simply a visitor
> 
> Jo xxx


yes, atm that's how it works - if one parent is genuinely resident, paying tax etc. in the UK the dependents can be covered here with the S1

at the moment..............


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## Seb* (Mar 22, 2009)

jojo said:


> If her husband is paying NI in the UK, there is a reciprocal agreement between our two countries. I think they will need to fill in an S1 form??? Lynn who posts on her occasionally is the expert on that lol!!!!
> 
> But I believe he will need to have a permanent address in the UK if he wishes to be considered as living there??? I'm not sure, but thats how we did it. I was resident in spain and everything was in my name there, I had the NIE etc. He was simply a visitor  We didnt fill in any tax forms in Spain tho!!??? However, he had to have a non resident bank account there and I had the main account which he fed money into periodically lol!!!
> 
> Jo xxx


Yes but your hubby was more than 183 days per year in the UK. In the OPs case her husband will be spanish resident. I think I read somewhere that depending on NI contribution in the UK you can get up to two years health care in Spain? But that might be out of the window now anyways with the latest changes to the health system in Spain ...


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

jojo said:


> However, he had to have a non resident bank account there and I had the main account which he fed money into periodically lol!!!
> 
> Jo xxx


I've got a feeling that technically I should have declared the income he gave me as housekeeping, but I didnt and I didnt get caught. But.............???!!!

Jo xxx


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Seb* said:


> Yes but your hubby was more than 183 days per year in the UK. In the OPs case her husband will be spanish resident. I think I read somewhere that depending on NI contribution in the UK you can get up to two years health care in Spain? But that might be out of the window now anyways with the latest changes to the health system in Spain ...


well exactly - but yes, atm with the S1 you can get up to 2 years cover even after you have left the UK

however......... if the husband was resident here & paying tax & NI here on his UK earnings, they'd be covered anyway, right?


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## Seb* (Mar 22, 2009)

xabiachica said:


> if the husband was resident here & paying tax & NI here on his UK earnings, they'd be covered anyway, right?


As I understand it yes.


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

jojo said:


> If her husband is paying NI in the UK, there is a reciprocal agreement between our two countries. I think they will need to fill in an S1 form??? Lynn who posts on her occasionally is the expert on that lol!!!!


Yes I'm aware of that, but we're not absolutely sure of the circumstances are we 

I wasnt aware you could be a Spanish resident, pay tax and NI in the UK (as a Spanish tax resident) and still take advantage of the NHS system


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## gus-lopez (Jan 4, 2010)

Stravinsky said:


> Yes I'm aware of that, but we're not absolutely sure of the circumstances are we
> 
> I wasnt aware you could be a Spanish resident, pay tax and NI in the UK (as a Spanish tax resident) and still take advantage of the NHS system


No you can't . If like Jo's he commuted , lived there , etc; then the S1 would cover the wife & family as long as they are residents. The commuting spouse is covered fully in the UK & uses his EHIC when in Spain as a non-resident.

If they all live here as a family , regardless of resident or non-resident , & regardless of paying tax , NI , ,owning a house, paying council tax , etc; etc; then they are entitled to nothing. UK healthcare is residency based & regardless of paying in.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Stravinsky said:


> Yes I'm aware of that, but we're not absolutely sure of the circumstances are we
> 
> I wasnt aware you could be a Spanish resident, pay tax and NI in the UK (as a Spanish tax resident) and still take advantage of the NHS system


no, you can't................. but if he is genuinely resident in the UK - or they change their plans so that he will be...............


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Stravinsky said:


> Yes I'm aware of that, but we're not absolutely sure of the circumstances are we
> 
> I wasnt aware you could be a Spanish resident, pay tax and NI in the UK (as a Spanish tax resident) and still take advantage of the NHS system


 My husband used his EHIC on the one occasion he needed to see a doctor in Spain cos he was only a visitor. but he would see his own GP in the UK for other stuff. The children and I had done the S1 and we were registered in Spain!

Jo xxx


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## karenangell (Feb 6, 2011)

My husband has a small leisure company and it is a limited company he takes a wage from his company and gives me housekeeping. He will be going home sundays and coming back wednesdays or even thursdays depending on what happens at his work. How much tax would we pay if we have to pay it and is it done yearly as is his corporate tax on his company. He only has to pay corporate tax on his company if he makes over a certain amount of profit therefore he tries to make sure his books and so does his accountant, balance, and to make sure he doesnt have to pay too much tax. So as I understand it we would be eligible for healthcare if he is a non resident and me any son are resident in spain?. If he was resident then we would have no healthcare so we would have to pay every time we went doctors, or dentist etc even for my five year old? Just getting these facts right. What would happen to my child benefit for my son if i become a resident would i loose that entirely even if im only trying spain for a year


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

gus-lopez said:


> No you can't . If like Jo's he commuted , lived there , etc; then the S1 would cover the wife & family as long as they are residents. The commuting spouse is covered fully in the UK & uses his EHIC when in Spain as a non-resident.
> 
> If they all live here as a family , regardless of resident or non-resident , & regardless of paying tax , NI , ,owning a house, paying council tax , etc; etc; then they are entitled to nothing. UK healthcare is residency based & regardless of paying in.


Yes, Im fully aware of the health situation ... it's what Ive been telling people for years 

Thats what is confusing because people here are speaking as if he lives in the UK and commutes to Spain, whereas I understood from what was said that he will live in Spain and commuted to the UK. That makes him a Spanish resident based on what was said, i.e. the time frame

I own a house in the UK and pay all that you mentioned, I even own a UK Ltd company operating in the UK. They are happy to take my taxes (corporation) but not interested in legally extending health cover there


So to get back to the situation and based on what we know 

The OP's husbands habitual place of residence will be Spain based on a 3 day commute week to the UK, and the tax (legally) should be approached on that basis, not withstabing Xabias possibility that she mentioned, and also the temporary health care based on S1, and the NI payments they have made for the last few years  

ray:


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

karenangell said:


> My husband has a small leisure company and it is a limited company he takes a wage from his company and gives me housekeeping. He will be going home sundays and coming back wednesdays or even thursdays depending on what happens at his work. How much tax would we pay if we have to pay it and is it done yearly as is his corporate tax on his company. He only has to pay corporate tax on his company if he makes over a certain amount of profit therefore he tries to make sure his books and so does his accountant, balance, and to make sure he doesnt have to pay too much tax. So as I understand it we would be eligible for healthcare if he is a non resident and me any son are resident in spain?. If he was resident then we would have no healthcare so we would have to pay every time we went doctors, or dentist etc even for my five year old? Just getting these facts right. What would happen to my child benefit for my son if i become a resident would i loose that entirely even if im only trying spain for a year


 You wouldnt be able to claim child benefit - BUT your husband would as he is paying NI in the UK. So transfer it into his name!!

You sound similar to us. My husband used to arrive Sundays and go Wednesdays, altho some weeks he'd stay in the UK due to work, occasionally he'd stay in Spain for a week. We used to argue cos he never really integrated with Spain and got fed up with the stress of commuting. I was annoyed cos he'd be in the UK and he'd be annoyed cos we were in Spain and we'd resent each others lives. Husband didnt feel he fitted in in Spain cos he simply wasnt there enough. The flights, driving to and from the airport got him down too. It was fine to begin with and our original plan was that once the recession was over he'd start a sister company in Spain, but after four years we realised that it wouldnt happen. that said I was happy in Spain, the kids used to miss their dad, but on the whole we had a brilliant time. We finally gave up when my daughters who were renting our UK house wanted to leave (so we had no tenants), my son wanted to do A-levels that his international school didnt do, my daughter never liked Spain much and my husband just got fed up with the commute

Jo xxx


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

karenangell said:


> My husband has a small leisure company and it is a limited company he takes a wage from his company and gives me housekeeping. He will be going home sundays and coming back wednesdays or even thursdays depending on what happens at his work. How much tax would we pay if we have to pay it and is it done yearly as is his corporate tax on his company. He only has to pay corporate tax on his company if he makes over a certain amount of profit therefore he tries to make sure his books and so does his accountant, balance, and to make sure he doesnt have to pay too much tax. So as I understand it we would be eligible for healthcare if he is a non resident and me any son are resident in spain?. If he was resident then we would have no healthcare so we would have to pay every time we went doctors, or dentist etc even for my five year old? Just getting these facts right. What would happen to my child benefit for my son if i become a resident would i loose that entirely even if im only trying spain for a year



Karen, I really think you need to do some proper research.
Residency isn't a choice ... well, it is but it depends where your habitual residence is. What you have told us so far points to the fact that your husband will be resident here in Spain. He wont be a resident in the UK. He will also become a tax resident here, and so his income would be taxable here.

As I said, I have a UK Ltd company as well. I can reduce my tax should I choose to do so by taking dividends rather than salary, but your husband is an employee of his own company in effect, just as I am with mine.

When you are not a UK resident then you have no legal right to health care (apart from S1 temporarily as we mentioned). You dont have a right to child benefit and amny other stuff. Thats what happened to all of us when we left the UK. We were, in effect, cut off from all that.

What you choose to tell the UK authorities is up to you really, but from what you say (and there may be more to it) the above more or less covers it.

You really need to take some financial advice from someone who knows the Spanish system.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Stravinsky said:


> Karen, I really think you need to do some proper research.
> Residency isn't a choice ... well, it is but it depends where your habitual residence is. What you have told us so far points to the fact that your husband will be resident here in Spain. He wont be a resident in the UK. He will also become a tax resident here, and so his income would be taxable here.
> 
> As I said, I have a UK Ltd company as well. I can reduce my tax should I choose to do so by taking dividends rather than salary, but your husband is an employee of his own company in effect, just as I am with mine.
> ...


Coming to Spain and working, whether in the UK or Spain, really isn't as simple as buying the ticket...
Who knows what new rules will apply if/when the situation in the eurozone goes even more pear-shaped?


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Stravinsky said:


> Karen, I really think you need to do some proper research.
> Residency isn't a choice ... well, it is but it depends where your habitual residence is. What you have told us so far points to the fact that your husband will be resident here in Spain. He wont be a resident in the UK. He will also become a tax resident here, and so his income would be taxable here.
> 
> As I said, I have a UK Ltd company as well. I can reduce my tax should I choose to do so by taking dividends rather than salary, but your husband is an employee of his own company in effect, just as I am with mine.
> ...


As long as they have a permanent address in the UK, as long as her husband is in Spain for less than 183 days a year and he is paying his taxes, NI etc there, then they should be ok! I did it, altho I loved it, it wasnt easy, but then I'm a wus who missed her husband and the kids wanted their dad. I managed tho. I managed the floods, the dog dying, the ash cloud, my sons torn ligament, my broken leg, my sons broken arm, my daughter skiving off school cos she hated it, trouble with our land lady, who was trying to break our contract and kick us out, the landlord who wasnt paying his mortgage so we had to move out very quickly (I did that on my own cos husband was in the UK!"!)...........

They simply need to make sure that they all have EHIC cards, they fill out the S1 form and that Karen takes full responsibility financially and in name for everything in Spain, they should be able to do it - while they still can if things are about to change???!!

Jo xxx


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

jojo said:


> ..........
> 
> They simply need to make sure that they all have EHIC cards, they fill out the S1 form and that Karen takes full responsibility financially and in name for everything in Spain, they should be able to do it - while they still can if things are about to change???!!
> 
> Jo xxx




Why would Karen and the children need EHIC cards? As residents in Spain, they must NOT be used!!


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## Seb* (Mar 22, 2009)

jojo said:


> As long as they have a permanent address in the UK, as long as her husband is in Spain for less than 183 days a year [...]
> 
> They simply need to make sure that they all have EHIC cards, they fill out the S1 form and that Karen takes full responsibility financially and in name for everything in Spain, they should be able to do it - while they still can if things are about to change???!!
> 
> Jo xxx


Well the breaking point is the time her husband spends in the UK. So basically to make it work like that he has to be away from his family another 30 days per year. That might not be an option for some families - I know it would not work for me.

And even then it's all a big should and could, especially right now where nobody really knows anything detailed about the health care reform. It's a big step and they will have to do the research and make sure they know what they are getting into to avoid some nasty surprises. We are not saying "don't do it", but "make sure you know what you are getting into" and prepare for worst case scenarios. Reasearch, research, research :clap2:

Anyway best of luck to the OP


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Seb* said:


> Well the breaking point is the time her husband spends in the UK. So basically to make it work like that he has to be away from his family another 30 days per year. That might not be an option for some families - I know it would not work for me.
> 
> And even then it's all a big should and could, especially right now where nobody really knows anything detailed about the health care reform. It's a big step and they will have to do the research and make sure they know what they are getting into to avoid some nasty surprises. We are not saying "don't do it", but "make sure you know what you are getting into" and prepare for worst case scenarios. Reasearch, research, research :clap2:
> 
> Anyway best of luck to the OP



The forum is a good place to do initial research!

jo xxx


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## Seb* (Mar 22, 2009)

snikpoh said:


> Why would Karen and the children need EHIC cards? As residents in Spain, they must NOT be used!!


That's right, but they can try to fake a tourist status. Basically what a lot of people have done in the past years and which is now partly blamed for the state of the health system (righly or wrongly). Going by some statements EHIC can now only be used for emergency treatment in hospìtals, anything follow up will be charged - even for tourists, basically they patch you up and then expect you to return to your home country.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

snikpoh said:


> Why would Karen and the children need EHIC cards? As residents in Spain, they must NOT be used!!


 No they dont need them altho they are useful to have - in a crisis. When my son tore his ligament the hospital insisted on taking a copy of his, eventho we were registered with a doctor in Spain. 

Jo xxx


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

jojo said:


> As long as they have a permanent address in the UK, as long as her husband is in Spain for less than 183 days a year and he is paying his taxes, NI etc there, then they should be ok! I did it, altho I loved it, it wasnt easy, but then I'm a wus who missed her husband and the kids wanted their dad. I managed tho. I managed the floods, the dog dying, the ash cloud, my sons torn ligament, my broken leg, my sons broken arm, my daughter skiving off school cos she hated it, trouble with our land lady, who was trying to break our contract and kick us out, the landlord who wasnt paying his mortgage so we had to move out very quickly (I did that on my own cos husband was in the UK!"!)...........
> 
> They simply need to make sure that they all have EHIC cards, they fill out the S1 form and that Karen takes full responsibility financially and in name for everything in Spain, they should be able to do it - while they still can if things are about to change???!!
> 
> Jo xxx



Heh heh .... but we're going round in circles. Thats *NOT* what she said. She said he would spend *3 days a week in the UK*. Commuting *TO* the UK. That means he spends *4 days a week in Spain* which is 208 days a year, where he is living with his family, and therefore he would be a Spanish resident. If that changes, then the goal posts change. If it doesnt ... well ... then the goalposts dont change.


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## gus-lopez (Jan 4, 2010)

If he goes to the uk on sunday & returns wednesday , then neither day counts in either country due to travelling. That leaves 5 days. Monday & tuesday in the uk = 104 /year , thursday ,friday & saturday in spain = 156 . He'd be liable tospanish tax as a resident as , although below 183 days, it would be where his main interests lie, i.e. his family. If so ,you'd have no health cover. If he comes back thursday thefigures would be reversed but still open to interpretation & dispute by either tax agency. 
Got to go footballs on in a mo . Come on Bilbao !:clap2:


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## karenangell (Feb 6, 2011)

Im thanking you all very much for advice and replies to my queries. All we want to do is try it out in spain for a year whilst keeping our child benefit in place so we may have to do what jo had said make me a permanent resident and my husband a visitor. Could anyone tell me how much the resident tax is if we chose not to do this, my hubby takes around 10,000 pounds english sterling. Whose to know that we were still claiming child benefit, only if we told them we wouldnt have to or would we. Is that what the NIE number is all about do they take your national insurance number etc, otherwise we might be able to do this for a year to help us out. I know alot of people would think we are not being fare to the system but to be honest with all government policies are they fare?!!


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## Seb* (Mar 22, 2009)

karenangell said:


> Whose to know that we were still claiming child benefit, only if we told them we wouldnt have to or would we. Is that what the NIE number is all about do they take your national insurance number etc, otherwise we might be able to do this for a year to help us out. I know alot of people would think we are not being fare to the system but to be honest with all government policies are they fare?!!


Well ... strictly speaking that is the famous benefit fraud you read about in the papers 

Seriously, you have to think this through and get professional advise. No point trying things out and ending up on the wrong side of the law in two different countries.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

karenangell said:


> Im thanking you all very much for advice and replies to my queries. All we want to do is try it out in spain for a year whilst keeping our child benefit in place so we may have to do what jo had said make me a permanent resident and my husband a visitor. Could anyone tell me how much the resident tax is if we chose not to do this, my hubby takes around 10,000 pounds english sterling. Whose to know that we were still claiming child benefit, only if we told them we wouldnt have to or would we. Is that what the NIE number is all about do they take your national insurance number etc, otherwise we might be able to do this for a year to help us out. I know alot of people would think we are not being fare to the system but to be honest with all government policies are they fare?!!


 They will know that your child isnt in the UK cos of the school (the UK one he's attending now) and his passport, they find things out. TRUST ME, they knew we had left the country and sent me a form to fill in to stop it. Luckily i put my child allowance in my husbands name just after we arrived in spain, and he was able to claim as he was paying into the system. The tax if your husband is a resident is slightly more than he would pay in the UK I believe, but I think its worked out by circumstance, so everyones different. But if you do that please dont try to keep the child allowance, at best you'll have to pay it back and possibly be labelled a benefit cheat. i would also say that however unfair you think the UK government is, you've seen nothing til you get to see Spain lol. For example, the autonomo/self employed rules are a joke. you pay the same amount (around 250€ regardless of whether you earn millions or earn nothing at all - you still have to pay it)

My* top tip* to you is whatever you do, do it legally. Spain is in the process of change with all this recession/EU stuff and if you get caught doing anything illegal they'll get you. And I'll bet they'll be looking and looking very closely right now!

The NIE number is essential, its not like your NI number and you dont need one to get the other, nor can they trace one from the other. To get an NIE, you need a passport, photocopies of your passport, your parents names (????), um............ I cant remember what else lol!! But without an NIE, you cant register with a doctor, you cant make a big purchase, you cant insure a car or your property, and you cant register on the padron or be a resident of Spain. In fact you and your son will need one to go to school.

jo xxx


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

karenangell said:


> Im thanking you all very much for advice and replies to my queries. All we want to do is try it out in spain for a year whilst keeping our child benefit in place so we may have to do what jo had said make me a permanent resident and my husband a visitor. Could anyone tell me how much the resident tax is if we chose not to do this, my hubby takes around 10,000 pounds english sterling. Whose to know that we were still claiming child benefit, only if we told them we wouldnt have to or would we. Is that what the NIE number is all about do they take your national insurance number etc, otherwise we might be able to do this for a year to help us out. I know alot of people would think we are not being fare to the system but to be honest with all government policies are they fare?!!


Whether these policies are 'fair'or not is a matter of opinion. Whether you are committing a crime or not is a matter of fact. Claiming Child Benefit or any benefit paid for by the taxpayer aka me and everyone else paying UK tax is fraud and the UK Government is taking steps to detect and prosecute benefit fraud in Spain where it is particularly prevalent and other EU states.


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## MaidenScotland (Jun 6, 2009)

mrypg9 said:


> Whether these policies are 'fair'or not is a matter of opinion. Whether you are committing a crime or not is a matter of fact. Claiming Child Benefit or any benefit paid for by the taxpayer aka me and everyone else paying UK tax is fraud and the UK Government is taking steps to detect and prosecute benefit fraud in Spain where it is particularly prevalent and other EU states.




wish I could like this twice,:clap2::clap2:


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

karenangell said:


> Im thanking you all very much for advice and replies to my queries. All we want to do is try it out in spain for a year whilst keeping our child benefit in place so we may have to do what jo had said make me a permanent resident and my husband a visitor. Could anyone tell me how much the resident tax is if we chose not to do this, my hubby takes around 10,000 pounds english sterling. Whose to know that we were still claiming child benefit, only if we told them we wouldnt have to or would we. Is that what the NIE number is all about do they take your national insurance number etc, otherwise we might be able to do this for a year to help us out. I know alot of people would think we are not being fare to the system but to be honest with all government policies are they fare?!!


if your husband is earning 10,000 pounds a year - how would you be able to keep 2 residences going (if he was indeed going to remain *genuinely* resident in the UK) & keep paying airfares for him to go back & forth??


10,000 isn't going to cover that 

even if he did become resident here, just the flights & somewhere to stay while in the UK 


apart from anything else regarding the legality or otherwise of claiming child benefit/telling porkies about where you are genuinely resident - the sums don't add up


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

And ...... just to put the cat amongst the pidgeons .... if your husband really only earns £10k a year ...... (a) you will struggle to afford to live here and (b) if you do joint tax returns you probably wont pay any tax here because of the allowances.

You should become a company employee! In that way you could take half of the income and you probably would both pay next to nothing in tax in the UK either. I employed the wife for ten years to do my typing


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## karenangell (Feb 6, 2011)

mrypg9 said:


> Whether these policies are 'fair'or not is a matter of opinion. Whether you are committing a crime or not is a matter of fact. Claiming Child Benefit or any benefit paid for by the taxpayer aka me and everyone else paying UK tax is fraud and the UK Government is taking steps to detect and prosecute benefit fraud in Spain where it is particularly prevalent and other EU states.


Mary i would like to tell you that i DIDNT say i was going to commit fraud and please keep your hair on your head, and i dont need to claim it anyway as have enough money to live on. I was just wondering whether i could keep it going if my husband would not be a resident so kindly please refrain from being quite arrogant


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## karenangell (Feb 6, 2011)

xabiachica said:


> if your husband is earning 10,000 pounds a year - how would you be able to keep 2 residences going (if he was indeed going to remain *genuinely* resident in the UK) & keep paying airfares for him to go back & forth??
> 
> 
> 10,000 isn't going to cover that
> ...


Hi jo

He takes dividends out of his company, and we have a three bedroomed caravan on the coast which is lovely and we bought that two years ago. We both would come back to that when we would stay in england. We will rent out house out in england this is our own home without a mortgage. So therefore we would just need food bills and him coming back three times a week or more, we will obviously build his income up as his business gets more income. We know we can survice on his money as we are doing it in england with only child benefit coming in. We have no mortgage and only bills to pay we are in a lucky situation. We also own our mobile home outright. We just wanted to try spain for a year, didnt think that was a crime, and maybe we will try it for six months as that could be easier with all the bureaucracy involved


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

karenangell said:


> Mary i would like to tell you that i DIDNT say i was going to commit fraud and please keep your hair on your head, and i dont need to claim it anyway as have enough money to live on. I was just wondering whether i could keep it going if my husband would not be a resident so kindly please refrain from being quite arrogant


to be fair it _did_ sound like you intended to keep quiet about leaving the country & continuing to claim it................... & that _would_ be benefit fraud


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## karenangell (Feb 6, 2011)

xabiachica said:


> to be fair it _did_ sound like you intended to keep quiet about leaving the country & continuing to claim it................... & that _would_ be benefit fraud


To be honest so many conflicting opinions, from people on here, and anyway we are going to spain and we will do all the right things etc, is the residence tax paid weekly monthly or yearly and how much would it roughtly be where can i find out from in england? As we will need to sort this out before we go.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

karenangell said:


> Hi jo
> 
> He takes dividends out of his company, and we have a three bedroomed caravan on the coast which is lovely and we bought that two years ago. We both would come back to that when we would stay in england. We will rent out house out in england this is our own home without a mortgage. So therefore we would just need food bills and him coming back three times a week or more, we will obviously build his income up as his business gets more income. We know we can survice on his money as we are doing it in england with only child benefit coming in. We have no mortgage and only bills to pay we are in a lucky situation. We also own our mobile home outright. We just wanted to try spain for a year, didnt think that was a crime, and maybe we will try it for six months as that could be easier with all the bureaucracy involved


I'm not jo btw 


yes, that does seem more possible then, as long as you have tenants in - jojo will tell you that when her tenants moved out that was one of the deciding factors of her family reurning to the UK

only coming for 6 months won't make a difference though - the bureaucracy starts pretty much as soon as you get here - & you & your children would have to register as resident after 90 days so would no longer be UK resident - & if your husband is here in Spain more than there in the UK..............


do you see what I'm getting at?

as far as the tax situation is concerned you need to discuss that with an accountant who understands the exact implications of the Spanish tax system & your exact circumstances - exactly how much time your husband will be spending in each country is the deciding factor


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## karenangell (Feb 6, 2011)

Stravinsky said:


> And ...... just to put the cat amongst the pidgeons .... if your husband really only earns £10k a year ...... (a) you will struggle to afford to live here and (b) if you do joint tax returns you probably wont pay any tax here because of the allowances.
> 
> You should become a company employee! In that way you could take half of the income and you probably would both pay next to nothing in tax in the UK either. I employed the wife for ten years to do my typing


Can i just clarify. My husband has a uk registed limited company. He emloys staff already and pay them an income, he pays himself also. This is roughtly 10,000 but does not include any dividends etc. I claim child benefit by my own right not FRAUDULENTLY and work here in england i do cleaning. I earn around 100 pounds a week, and my husband takes his wage also. We do ok as we have no mortgage and only have food and bills, our biggest bill is the council tax which is currently 120 per month, and our food bill comes to approx 70 to 80 per week. Fair enough when we go spain, we will probably a bit worse off, with no child benefit, and me not having my cleaning. But we will pay our rent from renting our home out which we will do it thru an agent and we can get 900 pounds a month. Then that will pay our rent, and my husbands wages we will live on. When we go back to england to stay we have a three bedroom caravan which we bought two years ago. We know its going to be financially tough. We will be saving on the council tax and bills a little bit i know they are not completly that much cheaper. We know food is the same. We do have savings but that is for when we decide to buy if indeed we might not we may just rent and see how we get on indefinitely


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## karenangell (Feb 6, 2011)

ok sorry thought that was your name, anyway muchas gracias for the comments. My husband is going to email his accountant and ask all the questions he needs. All of this hasnt put me off, as i think our position is slightly better than some as we are renting and not selling our property and also we have somewere to come back and stay when we go to england, and also the only thing is we will be worse off with the money but hopefully better off with our life, and we are triers and optimistic, so nothing lasts forever, and nothing is set in stone, is it, so thing can only get better.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

karenangell said:


> Can i just clarify. My husband has a uk registed limited company. He emloys staff already and pay them an income, he pays himself also. This is roughtly 10,000 but does not include any dividends etc. I claim child benefit by my own right not FRAUDULENTLY and work here in england i do cleaning. I earn around 100 pounds a week, and my husband takes his wage also. We do ok as we have no mortgage and only have food and bills, our biggest bill is the council tax which is currently 120 per month, and our food bill comes to approx 70 to 80 per week. Fair enough when we go spain, we will probably a bit worse off, with no child benefit, and me not having my cleaning. But we will pay our rent from renting our home out which we will do it thru an agent and we can get 900 pounds a month. Then that will pay our rent, and my husbands wages we will live on. When we go back to england to stay we have a three bedroom caravan which we bought two years ago. We know its going to be financially tough. We will be saving on the council tax and bills a little bit i know they are not completly that much cheaper. We know food is the same. We do have savings but that is for when we decide to buy if indeed we might not we may just rent and see how we get on indefinitely


no-one said you were claiming child benefit fraudulently in the UK - just that if you continued to whilst living here in Spain you would be


stravinsky was actually suggesting that if you 'worked'  for your husband it would ease the tax burden - a bit of creative accounting - he was trying to help


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## karenangell (Feb 6, 2011)

xabiachica said:


> no-one said you were claiming child benefit fraudulently in the UK - just that if you continued to whilst living here in Spain you would be
> 
> 
> stravinsky was actually suggesting that if you 'worked'  for your husband it would ease the tax burden - a bit of creative accounting - he was trying to help


Yes thank you i do realise that bit stressed with all the different comments lol. Yes that does sound a good idea i think OH was gonna do that anyway put me on the books when we become resident in spain as i think he wants to do it all properly.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

karenangell said:


> ok sorry thought that was your name, anyway muchas gracias for the comments. My husband is going to email his accountant and ask all the questions he needs. All of this hasnt put me off, as i think our position is slightly better than some as we are renting and not selling our property and also we have somewere to come back and stay when we go to england, and also the only thing is we will be worse off with the money but hopefully better off with our life, and we are triers and optimistic, so nothing lasts forever, and nothing is set in stone, is it, so thing can only get better.


it IS jojo's name - I'm xabiachica 


we're not trying to put you off - just help you to not make a huge mistake, simply because we have all seen so many people come over in the 'good times' & lose everything - let alone now in the bad

we're trying to make sure you do your homework properly - & talking to the accountant is a really good place to start in your position - just make sure he really does understand _Spanish_ tax too - or get him to put you in touch with someone who does

yes, from the info you have given in the last few posts it does seem as if you're in a pretty good position to come - just get the tax & residency situation clear - the DWP in Newcastle could probably help too


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

Xabia is right. Your accountant would tell you the same. I paid my wife (legally) £6500 a year. I reduced my salary by £6500 a year and therefore (at that time) avoided the higher tax rate.

I wasnt accusing anyone of fraud, just making a helpful suggestion to you

Now you have made things more clear, it all boils down to your husbands time spent here. In other words if he is a UK resident or Spanish resident. The onus will be on you to prove it either way 

Obviously you are aware that your rental income and salary are taxable. Where, well thats still down to the residency question. If you are both Spanish residents then you wont be able to claim child benefit. You wont get health care (other than temp S1) , and indeed it has justr been announced that for those of us that do ... well, we will have to pay for our drugs from now on.

£10k may well get you through here if you have no other costs re rent. Depends where you end up living tbh, as the South is more expensive than the North it seems.

To explain, I used to run a large company in the UK with 25 staff. I know how the dividend situation works, but as you know ... thats still a taxable income

You really need to speak to an accountant that understands the SPANISH tax system and requirements. Not all UK accountants understand it ... in fact not all Spanish ones do!

Just dont get stressed. people are trying to help you and make you aware of everything, not accuse you of anyhting


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## Seb* (Mar 22, 2009)

karenangell said:


> ok sorry thought that was your name, anyway muchas gracias for the comments. My husband is going to email his accountant and ask all the questions he needs. All of this hasnt put me off, as i think our position is slightly better than some as we are renting and not selling our property and also we have somewere to come back and stay when we go to england, and also the only thing is we will be worse off with the money but hopefully better off with our life, and we are triers and optimistic, so nothing lasts forever, and nothing is set in stone, is it, so thing can only get better.


It seems you have made up your mind. Just one last comment from me. We have been living the last three years in Spain on a very basic budget (similar to yours, taking the commute to the UK out of the equation). It is possible if you are willing to lower your living standards by a lot. We have done exactly that. But let me tell you, life in Spain without money to spend is not as great as you would think, actually it is plainly depressing and nothing like a holiday. 

Sometimes people have to find out for themselves, so I keep my fingers crossed that everything goes well for you. Just don't dismiss anything said on this forum, cause it's all 100% true - even if it is not what you wanted to hear.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

karenangell said:


> Mary i would like to tell you that i DIDNT say i was going to commit fraud and please keep your hair on your head, and i dont need to claim it anyway as have enough money to live on. I was just wondering whether i could keep it going if my husband would not be a resident so kindly please refrain from being quite arrogant


Read your post again before you accuse anyone of being 'arrogant' - although arrogance doesn't come into comments about benefit fraud, does it? What you wrote, as someone else has pointed out, was at the best ambiguous. And get this straight: no-one is accusing you of benefit fraud. You gave the impression you didn't find such practices unacceptable. I do as between us, my partnner and I pay an extortionate amount of UK tax on our joint incomes and investments and I resent people living here and cheating the system, as do most decent people.

You've been posting for quite a while about coming to live in Spain.. and you seem not to like being told things that don't fit the picture you have. 

I would make only one further comment: hopefully you will have more than £10k a year to live on as that is not a large amount for the kind of life you want to live.

But hey, what do I know, I only live here


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## Solwriter (Jan 10, 2012)

I've read through this thread and what I have to say to *Karen* is, thanks for starting it!
Because of the questions you have asked and the situation you have told us about, it actually provided some very helpful comments which others in similar situations will find useful.

I for one, don't think you are fraudulently trying to do anything (although I can see how it may have come across), just trying to make sense of the situation, sort out where you pay your taxes and how your family can receive a benefit you should be entitled to.
I know that, as recipient of child benefit you lose that when resident of Spain, but Jo's suggestion seems like a good way to deal with this. And its not as if you are claiming JSA or similar.
I would definitely suggest that your husband spends a little more time in the UK than you have planned. It will be hard on all of you, but it would solve at least one problem. 

What I will say though, is that 10k a year wont provide you with a very good standard of living, especially if your husband still has to pay his UK council tax and living expenses out of that 10k. I also assume he will have to pay site rental on the mobile home. And then there's the cost of commuting...
And as Seb says, _'But let me tell you, life in Spain without money to spend is not as great as you would think, actually it is plainly depressing and nothing like a holiday.' _
Believe me, that's very true.

And to *maxwellmouse*, who replied early on in this thread.
I understand your frustration with what has happened to you in the UK, but I really think you would find life in Spain even more frustrating right now!
You say you will have around 35k in the bank, which I take it will be after all expenses on selling your house are taken out.
That's the amount we had left when we moved here in 2005, after we had bought our house and paid for it to be modernised.
It wasn't enough!
First we had to buy a car, then we had to pay to put right what our builder had done wrong... and we had extortionate bills to pay as our electric contract was messed up for a couple of years. And, even then, the cost of living here was definitely higher than we had anticipated. 
We couldn't even sign on for residencia for the first year (this was before the change in EU policy in 2007), because, taking away our monthly outgoings, we simply could not prove we had enough money left not to be a drain on the economy!
And to be honest, the figures quoted to be a resident were correct. 

*Karen*, at least you will have a home in the UK to return to if things go wrong. Please don't even think of selling it!
I wish you the very best of luck.
And hope you use a very good accountant.


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## karenangell (Feb 6, 2011)

Solwriter said:


> I've read through this thread and what I have to say to *Karen* is, thanks for starting it!
> Because of the questions you have asked and the situation you have told us about, it actually provided some very helpful comments which others in similar situations will find useful.
> 
> I for one, don't think you are fraudulently trying to do anything (although I can see how it may have come across), just trying to make sense of the situation, sort out where you pay your taxes and how your family can receive a benefit you should be entitled to.
> ...


I would like to thank most people for their truth and honesty with regards to my posts, apart from one person whom i wont mention lol. Anyway yes thank you very much for the info. Our salary will be a little more than what i said and no one has told me what the residencia tax would be is it taxed weekly monthly or yearly sorry to be ignorant but i do not know


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

karenangell said:


> I would like to thank most people for their truth and honesty with regards to my posts, apart from one person whom i wont mention lol. Anyway yes thank you very much for the info. Our salary will be a little more than what i said and no one has told me what the residencia tax would be is it taxed weekly monthly or yearly sorry to be ignorant but i do not know


I don't really know what you mean :confused2:


there is no tax just for being resident


do you mean what income tax would you/your husband pay if resident??


as we said - only an accountant who knows your _exact_ circumstances & the Spanish tax system would be able to answer that


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## Solwriter (Jan 10, 2012)

karenangell said:


> I would like to thank most people for their truth and honesty with regards to my posts, apart from one person whom i wont mention lol. Anyway yes thank you very much for the info. Our salary will be a little more than what i said and no one has told me what the residencia tax would be is it taxed weekly monthly or yearly sorry to be ignorant but i do not know


There are two types of tax in Spain. Residents' tax and non residents' tax (the latter is usually worked out on assumed rental income).

As a resident of Spain (and spending more than 183 days a year here), you will be classed as tax resident and you will have to submit a tax return (which I would get a gestor or an accountant to do). But how much you pay will depend on your financial circumstances. For instance, whether your husband makes you a partner in his business or not.

But as xabiachica says, you really need to ask an accountant who understands Spanish taxes as this is the best way for you and your husband to sort out who pays what and where, otherwise you could end up paying more than you need to (or worse, not paying enough and then being fined later down the line).

If anyone gives you an answer on how much you will be paying, they will probably be wrong, as this is a very individual thing.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

The more people realise that moving to Spain to live is nothing like enjoying a holiday, the better.
It seems odd to me that some people think it is a straightforward and uncomplicated process.
Quite apart from the fact that even if you have no need to seek employment -and if you fall into that category, stay home unless you have a secure well-paid job lined up - there are formalities you must observe in order to be 'legal' and gain access to health care and other services. If you have employment, the formalities are even more complex, necessary and it seems all too often arbitrary.
I've asked before: why Spain? Why not Romania, France, Italy -just as hot there -Germany -more chance of work there - or Bulgaria - warm in summer, dirt cheap to live there.
Most people's experience of Spain comes through holidays or visits to relatives or friends. It's easy to see how, lying besides a pool in temperatures of 40C plus, life in Spain can be seen as one long holiday. Especially if you come on a package or all-inclusive holiday, you won't be paying the electricity bills, arguing with endesa, doing the shopping or hopefully needing to visit a doctor or dentist. All the bureaucracy associated with actually living here doesn't get a look in.
As I have said before, I visited Prague two or sometimes three times a year over a period of over thirty years, staying always with friends. Actually living there presented me with a very rude awakening. Things were made more complicated by the fact that my Czech was limited and few Czechs speak English. But then surprisingly few Spaniards, even on the Costas, speak English.
I find it irksome that when we present the facts to wannabe immigrants we are told at times we are 'negative' or even asked why we continue living here. Maybe they think we want to keep the place to ourselves?
Well, not much danger of anyone moving into my immediate neighbourhood. Since we moved into our house we've noticed that houses in this area which were valued at maybe a million euros plus are now selling for less than half that. 
I blame tv programmes like 'A Place in the Sun' and the unspeakable 'TOWIE' which has done as much to lower the reputation of Marbella as any bunch of visiting drunken chavs. There is a perception that Spain is a British colony of some kind and that the Med is a British lake.....
But as I've always said: if you have no need to work and have enough money to live on at least to the same standard as you had in the UK, you will have few or no problems.
Apart from the maze of rules and regulations, of course.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Solwriter said:


> *There are two types of tax in Spain. Residents' tax and non residents' tax (the latter is usually worked out on assumed rental income).*
> 
> As a resident of Spain (and spending more than 183 days a year here), you will be classed as tax resident and you will have to submit a tax return (which I would get a gestor or an accountant to do). But how much you pay will depend on your financial circumstances. For instance, whether your husband makes you a partner in his business or not.
> 
> ...


this is only if you own property though, isn't it?


& karen doesn't


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## Solwriter (Jan 10, 2012)

xabiachica said:


> this is only if you own property though, isn't it?
> 
> 
> & karen doesn't


Very true 
I was just trying to explain the different taxes (very badly, lol!).


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

mrypg9 said:


> The more people realise that moving to Spain to live is nothing like enjoying a holiday, the better.
> It seems odd to me that some people think it is a straightforward and uncomplicated process.
> Quite apart from the fact that even if you have no need to seek employment -and if you fall into that category, stay home unless you have a secure well-paid job lined up - there are formalities you must observe in order to be 'legal' and gain access to health care and other services. If you have employment, the formalities are even more complex, necessary and it seems all too often arbitrary.
> I've asked before: why Spain? Why not Romania, France, Italy -just as hot there -Germany -more chance of work there - or Bulgaria - warm in summer, dirt cheap to live there.
> ...



I love that programme - I don't think it's meant to be hilarious, but it is!!:clap2:


yes, in general terms you're right

and I think karen may be one of the lucky ones - she isn't looking for work, she will be letting a property in the UK which fingers crossed will pay her rent here (something we frequently advise) - & her husband has a reasonable income from the UK


all she needs to do is work out the fine details of where her husband will actually be resdent & therefore where he will pay tax.....simples....


and we mustn't forget that this forum is often the FIRST place people come to start their research - so maybe sometimes we should forgive them for asking what we might think are stupid questions....................


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Solwriter said:


> Very true
> I was just trying to explain the different taxes (very badly, lol!).


I knew what you meant - I just wanted to clarify a little


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## tanquillasunrise (Oct 9, 2012)

hi im almost in the same position as yourself hope it works for you


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## Karen58 (Aug 1, 2012)

Stravinsky said:


> I dont know your full situation
> 
> I will only say that as regards your business .... it may well stay in the UK, but your income will be taxable here
> 
> ...




Do not panic about taxes.. law recently changed so take advice here from a reputable tax assessor (legal solution available). Give it a go!! it is not perfect here by a long way but you will always regret not coming.. Good Luck


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Karen58 said:


> Do not panic about taxes.. law recently changed so take advice here from a reputable tax assessor (legal solution available). Give it a go!! it is not perfect here by a long way but you will always regret not coming.. Good Luck


could you elaborate on that a little?

just in general terms?

I understood that although you would have to declare your income here if you are resident here, you wouldn't 'pay twice' in any case, if tax was already paid in the UK?


has that changed?


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