# Going back to England for uni



## L_malaga (Jan 1, 2011)

Hi
My daughter is about to start her last year of Bachillerato (ciencias de la salud), she's been here with me ever since she was 8, and she turned 17 this summer. She has been in spanish education ever since we moved here, and she speaks fluent spanish (her spanish is better than her english, although she hasnt lost much english because she's a book worm and reads about a book a week in english). 
She wants to apply to go to uni in england, as she says she misses england sometimes, and there are better courses than here in Malaga university. 
She would be looking to apply to either a foundation degree in art and design (to later on study photography) or to a degree in biochemistry or pharmacology. 
The problem is, we have got in touch with UCAS, and they say that the spanish bachillerato doesn't give any tariff points! Most of the courses she's looking into ask for a minimum of 200 UCAS tariff points! 
So has anybody have children who have gone to uni in england after a spanish education here? How do you get round the tariff points? 
Also, is selectividad necessary to gain entry? 

Thankyou

Lorraine


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

L_malaga said:


> Hi
> My daughter is about to start her last year of Bachillerato (ciencias de la salud), she's been here with me ever since she was 8, and she turned 17 this summer. She has been in spanish education ever since we moved here, and she speaks fluent spanish (her spanish is better than her english, although she hasnt lost much english because she's a book worm and reads about a book a week in english).
> She wants to apply to go to uni in england, as she says she misses england sometimes, and there are better courses than here in Malaga university.
> She would be looking to apply to either a foundation degree in art and design (to later on study photography) or to a degree in biochemistry or pharmacology.
> ...


hi & welcome

Spanish students go to uni in the UK every year - I think you should contact individual universities

certainly Oxford recognises bachillerato

International Qualifications - University of Oxford


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

L_malaga said:


> Hi
> My daughter is about to start her last year of Bachillerato (ciencias de la salud), she's been here with me ever since she was 8, and she turned 17 this summer. She has been in spanish education ever since we moved here, and she speaks fluent spanish (her spanish is better than her english, although she hasnt lost much english because she's a book worm and reads about a book a week in english).
> She wants to apply to go to uni in england, as she says she misses england sometimes, and there are better courses than here in Malaga university.
> She would be looking to apply to either a foundation degree in art and design (to later on study photography) or to a degree in biochemistry or pharmacology.
> ...


I don't know, but perhaps you have to get in touch with each individual university??
This course description for example says that international students have no entry requirements, which hardly seems fair, but that's what it says...
http://www.whatuni.com/degrees/courses/Foundation-Degree-details/Foundation-Degree-in-Art-and-Design-Professional-Practice-course-details/369358/7


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## lynn (Sep 25, 2008)

You would be advised to contact NARIC UK NARIC - Home. It's a UK's national agency responsible for providing qualification information to individuals from outside of the UK who wish to come to the UK to work, study or train. They will be able to provide your daughter with a statement about the comparative level of her qualification to the UK's qualification frameworks. This statement is recognised by universities, colleges and employers throughout the UK.


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## lynn (Sep 25, 2008)

Having just had a look through the UCAS website, the european baccalaureate is listed under 'other qualifications' on each course profile... 
Hope this helps


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## rjnpenang (Feb 20, 2008)

Hi Lorraine, Both our children went though the Spanish school system from a very early age right up to instutito which neither of them finished, I could see 8 years ago there was very little future on the Costa del Sol for young people so we decided to send them away for further education, our daughter to a dance college in the UK, and our son to a hospitality school in Switzerland.
It's ironic that after 3 years in Switzerland (3 by 6 months study, 3 by 6 months internship) our son was accepted to Manchester Metro. Uni for his degree, (one year)and yet he had never passed any exams!, never even finished instutito his 18 months study! was accepted as an HND, being an overseas student we had to pay (after a means test), I had the distinct impression the uni was only interested in the money, overseas students being the gravy train for them now.
I was also advised when we were looking for further education for our kids to consider another country, Holland being recommended, courses cheaper then the UK, and in English, a nice lifestyle with a good mix of international students.
What I'm trying to say, don't give up, there are ways round the system and other countries with courses in English, your daughter could end up being trilingual!. Regards Rob


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

rjnpenang said:


> What I'm trying to say, don't give up, there are ways round the system and other countries with courses in English, your daughter could end up being trilingual!. Regards Rob


Hmmm. That's interesting!


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Hmmm. That's interesting!


With imminent introduction of £9000 a year tuition fees by most UK unis from 2012-13, applicants are actively seeking cheaper alternatives abroad, and the Sunday Times reported that Maastricht Uni is proving popular for lower fees and classes in English.


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## rjnpenang (Feb 20, 2008)

And this was in the DT a few days ago, about studying abroad, but some of the fees stated should perhaps be taken with a pinch of salt!. 
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/educatio...-university-alternatives-for-UK-students.html


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## lynn (Sep 25, 2008)

rjnpenang said:


> And this was in the DT a few days ago, about studying abroad, but some of the fees stated should perhaps be taken with a pinch of salt!.
> Top 10 European university alternatives for UK students - Telegraph


Certainly worth considering, although there are a few things to bear in mind:
Copenhagen doesn't offer Bachelor degrees in English, only Masters and Doctoral.
To study at Bern uni, you need a proficiency in German and, at Lausanne, the courses are taught in French...

So, for those students with bilingual or trilingual skills, they certainly would be viable alternatives to UK universities


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## Sonrisa (Sep 2, 2010)

L_malaga said:


> Hi
> My daughter is about to start her last year of Bachillerato (ciencias de la salud), she's been here with me ever since she was 8, and she turned 17 this summer. She has been in spanish education ever since we moved here, and she speaks fluent spanish (her spanish is better than her english, although she hasnt lost much english because she's a book worm and reads about a book a week in english).
> She wants to apply to go to uni in england, as she says she misses england sometimes, and there are better courses than here in Malaga university.
> She would be looking to apply to either a foundation degree in art and design (to later on study photography) or to a degree in biochemistry or pharmacology.
> ...



Hello Lorraine.
I dont have children university age, but I happen to know personal cases of students that went to UK for their bachelors degree and that were admitted, although yes, selectividad was a requirement, along with some other school records.


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## fourgotospain (May 4, 2009)

The daughter of a friend of mine has a place at Manchester to read wildlife biology next month, which was conditional on her spanish bacc reults, but as far as I know she didn't need to do any other tests apart from an english language test (which of course she left to the last minute as she didn't want to jinx it! But passed with 80%!) She also had a place offered at Glasgow, so maybe it is down to the individual unis. She's been at spanish school since she was 6 but is very interested in wildlife research and apparently the UK is the best place for her to go.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

fourgotospain said:


> The daughter of a friend of mine has a place at Manchester to read wildlife biology next month, which was conditional on her spanish bacc reults, but as far as I know she didn't need to do any other tests apart from an english language test (which of course she left to the last minute as she didn't want to jinx it! But passed with 80%!) She also had a place offered at Glasgow, so maybe it is down to the individual unis. She's been at spanish school since she was 6 but is very interested in wildlife research and apparently the UK is the best place for her to go.


Places offered to EU applicants are outside the funded allocations so unis can be more relaxed about accepting them. Supposing the funded allocations for a course are 100, they can still accept non-UK EEA and overseas (international) students in excess without being penalised for over-recruitment, when future funding is reduced. So the latter is a lucrative source of extra income and they particularly welcome them.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Joppa said:


> Places offered to EU applicants are outside the funded allocations so unis can be more relaxed about accepting them. Supposing the funded allocations for a course are 100, they can still accept non-UK EEA and overseas (international) students in excess without being penalised for over-recruitment, when future funding is reduced. So the latter is a lucrative source of extra income and they particularly welcome them.


I wonder how that works with UK citizens who have been educated abroad with a foreign qualification

where do they fit?

they are entitled to be treated as UKC with the same grants and so on, afaik unless it has changed recently.................yet they are essentially 'foreign' as far as their qualifications are concerned


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

xabiachica said:


> I wonder how that works with UK citizens who have been educated abroad with a foreign qualification
> 
> where do they fit?
> 
> they are entitled to be treated as UKC with the same grants and so on, afaik unless it has changed recently.................yet they are essentially 'foreign' as far as their qualifications are concerned


Hmm, interesting question!
Those British citizens deemed to be UK resident (because they or their parents have been exercising treaty rights in EEA) are home students so I assume they come within the funded allocations, regardless of qualifications produced. But if they are EEA applicants with no UK connection, they are clearly outside the allocations.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Joppa said:


> Hmm, interesting question!
> Those British citizens deemed to be UK resident (because they or their parents have been exercising treaty rights in EEA) are home students so I assume they come within the funded allocations, regardless of qualifications produced. But if they are EEA applicants with no UK connection, they are clearly outside the allocations.


exactly!!


maybe I'll find out in 3 years when my dd goes to uni.....she at the moment is determined to go in the US - but she might equally decide to stay in Spain or go to the UK, it just depends on where the best course is at the time for what she decides to do


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## fourgotospain (May 4, 2009)

> they are entitled to be treated as UKC with the same grants and so on, afaik unless it has changed recently.................yet they are essentially 'foreign' as far as their qualifications are concerned


Sounds like the best of both worlds so there's bound to be some catch none of us have thought of! Plus if they go to Uni in-state here they get a great reduction in fees too. So it's Valencia or Scotland for my two


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## Sirtravelot (Jul 20, 2011)

My post may be a bit late or irrelevant, but a friend of mine from Portugal managed to get an offer from a uni somewhere around London, so I don't see why your daughter couldn't manage.

I just hope she doesn't make the same mistake as my friend and drop out after a year because she couldn't fit in!


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

fourgotospain said:


> Sounds like the best of both worlds so there's bound to be some catch none of us have thought of! Plus if they go to Uni in-state here they get a great reduction in fees too. So it's Valencia or Scotland for my two


Why's that fourgotospain?

Because they're not Spanish??

So they'd be foreign students where ever they went?


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Why's that fourgotospain?
> 
> Because they're not Spanish??
> 
> So they'd be foreign students where ever they went?


at a guess I'd say it's because it's cheaper in both Scotland & Spain no matter where you're from!!

although perhaps that isn't quite true :confused2:

Edinburgh University charges English students £36,000 for a degree - Telegraph

if they are Scottish I believe uni in Scotland is free?

European student numbers soar at Scotland's free universities | Education | guardian.co.uk


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## fourgotospain (May 4, 2009)

In Scotland fees are free to scottish residents and other EU citizens as long as they don't live in England, Wales or Northern Ireland! Ergo those living in Spain will not pay.

In the Comminidad Valenciana (which is our educational body) the local unis/colleges off special reductions to students who live within the state for their earlier education. I suspect it's to do with keeping the Valenciano language alive and thriving as well as making it easier for students to live at home and study.


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## lynn (Sep 25, 2008)

fourgotospain said:


> In Scotland fees are free to scottish residents and other EU citizens as long as they don't live in England, Wales or Northern Ireland! Ergo those living in Spain will not pay.
> 
> In the Comminidad Valenciana (which is our educational body) the local unis/colleges off special reductions to students who live within the state for their earlier education. I suspect it's to do with keeping the Valenciano language alive and thriving as well as making it easier for students to live at home and study.


As I understand it, our children don't qualify for free fees in Scotland, as they are UK citizens and not Spanish citizens.... it's not just based on where you live!


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## fourgotospain (May 4, 2009)

> Why's that fourgotospain?
> 
> Because they're not Spanish??
> 
> So they'd be foreign students where ever they went?


Or did you mean the 'best of both worlds' bit? My children and others like them are fully bilingual (both spoken and written) and have strong ties in both countries. They may wish to pursue a career in which an english degree would give them better job prospects than a spanish one. Or the other way around. Or not at all. The fact that they will be able to apply for fees grants wherever, and choose their tertiary education options on ability and vocation rather than cost is surely the best of both worlds?


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

lynn said:


> As I understand it, our children don't qualify for free fees in Scotland, as they are UK citizens and not Spanish citizens.... it's not just based on where you live!


That's correct. Your children are regarded as home students normally resident in UK but are (or their parents are) exercising treaty rights in EEA. You have to be non-UK EEA or Swiss national normally resident outside UK to qualify for free fees in Scotland. If you are a British citizen, you need to be Scottish-domiciled to get free fees in Scotland. So if you have lived in Scotland most of your life but are currently living in Spain to exercise your treaty rights (working, studying, being self-sufficient or being retired etc), you will still get free fees.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Joppa said:


> That's correct. Your children are regarded as home students normally resident in UK but are (or their parents are) exercising treaty rights in EEA. You have to be non-UK EEA or Swiss national normally resident outside UK to qualify for free fees in Scotland. If you are a British citizen, you need to be Scottish-domiciled to get free fees in Scotland. So if you have lived in Scotland most of your life but are currently living in Spain to exercise your treaty rights (working, studying, being self-sufficient or being retired etc), you will still get free fees.


So that would rule out free fees in Scotland for many forum users, wouldn't it?


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

fourgotospain said:


> In Scotland fees are free to scottish residents and other EU citizens as long as they don't live in England, Wales or Northern Ireland! Ergo those living in Spain will not pay.
> 
> In the Comminidad Valenciana (which is our educational body) the local unis/colleges off special reductions to students who live within the state for their earlier education. I suspect it's to do with keeping the Valenciano language alive and thriving as well as making it easier for students to live at home and study.


This what my question was about.
Soooo as I think your children are British, they are not entitled to free university education in Scotland, but my daughter who is Spanish, would be.
Is that right?
Seems a bit crazy to me...

As far as I know, we wouldn't get any reduction if our daughter goes to uni here in Madrid. No local language issue to influence things perhaps??


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## chrisnation (Mar 2, 2009)

*to later on study photography*

I've been in photography for 30 years. When people ask me about going on a degree/3 year course on photography I tell them that if they want to work in photography/be a photographer, going to college is a waste of time and money.

If you would like me to expand on this, pm me.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Pesky Wesky said:


> This what my question was about.
> Soooo as I think your children are British, they are not entitled to free university education in Scotland, but my daughter who is Spanish, would be.
> Is that right?
> Seems a bit crazy to me...


Well, it's the EU rules that compel the Scottish government to offer free tuition fees to EEA citizens. Clearly they only want to give free uni education to Scottish students, but under EU regulations, any EEA citizen is entitled to be treated the same as locals, so if they waive fees for Scots, they have to do the same for Spaniards, Poles, Germans and so on. 

Now, apparently under EU law, they are allowed to discriminate against non-Scottish British citizens, so they will charge £9000 a year to English, Welsh and Northern Irish students. There is a supreme court hearing pending on the legality of this, instigated by some disgruntled English students and their legal team, so we'll just have to wait and see.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Joppa said:


> Well, it's the EU rules that compel the Scottish government to offer free tuition fees to EEA citizens. Clearly they only want to give free uni education to Scottish students, but under EU regulations, any EEA citizen is entitled to be treated the same as locals, so if they waive fees for Scots, they have to do the same for Spaniards, Poles, Germans and so on.
> 
> Now, apparently under EU law, they are allowed to discriminate against non-Scottish British citizens, so they will charge £9000 a year to English, Welsh and Northern Irish students. There is a supreme court hearing pending on the legality of this, instigated by some disgruntled English students and their legal team, so we'll just have to wait and see.


Ok, thanks for clearing that up.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

chrisnation said:


> I've been in photography for 30 years. When people ask me about going on a degree/3 year course on photography I tell them that if they want to work in photography/be a photographer, going to college is a waste of time and money.
> 
> If you would like me to expand on this, pm me.


You're preaching to the converted here. OH teaches Business Administration (well, he would if Aguirre hadn't made him unemployed) in FP. And I believe that while studying has it's place it should be accompanied by large doses of "doing" and "experiencing"
However, if you want to be a teacher, which is what my daughter wants to do ATM, you have to go to university, and it's easier to train here to get the qualification recognised.


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## chrisnation (Mar 2, 2009)

*Tertiary education*



Pesky Wesky said:


> You're preaching to the converted here. OH teaches Business Administration (well, he would if Aguirre hadn't made him unemployed) in FP. And I believe that while studying has it's place it should be accompanied by large doses of "doing" and "experiencing"
> However, if you want to be a teacher, which is what my daughter wants to do ATM, you have to go to university, and it's easier to train here to get the qualification recognised.


I took some non-English natives on a tour of English faculties for summer school courses. While my clients were going round the English dept of the Uni of West of England country campus, I had a stroll about. I came across a putting green surrounded by a stout fence and locked gate. A sign read "For the use of Golf Course Management students only"

There was also a large set-up for "Equestrian Studies" and "Motor Racing Studies" had garages and racing cars

Gimme a break. Tertiary education has comprehensively lost the plot.

The one that will trump all these useless courses is The Faculty of Teaching Ravens to Fly Underwater, Professor Sir Arthur Strebe-Greebling in charge. Or it may be Sir Arthur Grebe-Streebling. I can never remember.


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## lynn (Sep 25, 2008)

Just resurrecting this post because I've been asked by a friend of mine who works for the BBC News (education) department if I knew of any ex-pats who were/had applied to a Scottish University because of qualifying for free tuition there... 

As discussed previously, UK ex-pats wouldn't qualify, but maybe there is someone who originally came from Scotland, or another EU country? 

If anyone is in this situation and is happy to be interviewed by the BBC News department, please PM me


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## bob_bob (Jan 5, 2011)

A degree in biochemistry or pharmacology gives her a chance of a job, if you have any influence guide her down one of these paths.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

bob_bob said:


> A degree in biochemistry or pharmacology gives her a chance of a job, if you have any influence guide her down one of these paths.


In which country?

I've taught pharmacuetical students here and there was definitley a glut, so to speak, a few years ago.


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## bob_bob (Jan 5, 2011)

Certainly will in the UK, not sure about Spain, what do you think?


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## lynn (Sep 25, 2008)

lynn said:


> Just resurrecting this post because I've been asked by a friend of mine who works for the BBC News (education) department if I knew of any ex-pats who were/had applied to a Scottish University because of qualifying for free tuition there...
> 
> As discussed previously, UK ex-pats wouldn't qualify, but maybe there is someone who originally came from Scotland, or another EU country?
> 
> If anyone is in this situation and is happy to be interviewed by the BBC News department, please PM me


Following on from this, I have just had word from my friend who seems to think that after 3 or 4 years living abroad, English candidates could apply to a Scottish Uni and qualify for free tuition fees.... a game changer for many if it is true. But conversely, if it is true, would that mean that they wouldn't qualify as a UK student for English Unis and therefore not qualify for the means tested maintenance grant/loan??


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## lynn (Sep 25, 2008)

..and following on from my previous post, I think this is the relevant information from the student awards agency in Scotland: 
UK Returners


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## brocher (Mar 21, 2011)

According to the media, many English students are now applying to study in countries such as Holland and Belgium. It seems it is much cheaper for them and there are many courses taught in English. 

Might be an option worth considering for some.


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## Claire la richarde (Jul 6, 2009)

brocher said:


> According to the media, many English students are now applying to study in countries such as Holland and Belgium. It seems it is much cheaper for them and there are many courses taught in English.
> 
> Might be an option worth considering for some.


We looked into this for our daughter - we live in the UK (and plans for retirement abroad are now on hold, unfortunately).

Anyway, we found a course she liked in the Netherlands, taught partly in English and with a buddying system with Dutch students for the parts taught in Dutch.

However, she wouldn't be eligible for student loans from the UK, and we don't have savings we could use, so we'd have to borrow money at commercial rates to pay the 16,800 euros tuition fees for the 4 year course, and the approx 800 euros a month living costs. If she could get a job for 3 months before starting university, and work part-time whilst there, she could access some less expensive loans from the Dutch government, but she wasn't likely to get a job as she speaks no Dutch. 

So the idea had to be abandoned. We just couldn't afford to borrow the money.


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## brocher (Mar 21, 2011)

Claire la richarde said:


> We looked into this for our daughter - we live in the UK (and plans for retirement abroad are now on hold, unfortunately).
> 
> Anyway, we found a course she liked in the Netherlands, taught partly in English and with a buddying system with Dutch students for the parts taught in Dutch.
> 
> ...


Hope your daughter got sorted out somehow, Claire. 

If you're in th UK, why does your daughter not get funding for the course?

Of course, tuition fees of 16800 euros is a lot less than many English courses will be when they charge £36000 for tuition fees. 

It really is getting mind boggling. How are ordinary folk supposed to cope with that level of charges/ debt - and as you say, that's without ordinary living costs on top.

As far as I'm concerned we're just teaching a generation that a huge level of debt is perfectly normal and acceptable.


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## Claire la richarde (Jul 6, 2009)

brocher said:


> Hope your daughter got sorted out somehow, Claire.
> 
> If you're in th UK, why does your daughter not get funding for the course?
> 
> ...


Thanks, Brocher. She's applying to universities in the UK. 

The UK administrations won't allow student loans for studying a whole degree course abroad. I've no idea why - I haven't been able to find any justification published anywhere. Perhaps I'll write to my MP and ask him to investigate.

Fortunately we live in Wales and the Welsh government is (at present) promising to pay the difference between the current fees and those charged next year for Welsh domiciled students, wherever they study in the UK. My daughter, who would have liked to study abroad, is applying for courses which offer at least one term in another EU country under the Erasmus scheme.


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## bay1987 (May 1, 2012)

Claire la richarde said:


> Thanks, Brocher. She's applying to universities in the UK.
> 
> The UK administrations won't allow student loans for studying a whole degree course abroad. I've no idea why - I haven't been able to find any justification published anywhere. Perhaps I'll write to my MP and ask him to investigate.
> 
> Fortunately we live in Wales and the Welsh government is (at present) promising to pay the difference between the current fees and those charged next year for Welsh domiciled students, wherever they study in the UK. My daughter, who would have liked to study abroad, is applying for courses which offer at least one term in another EU country under the Erasmus scheme.


Can anyone give me some advice re returning to UK for univeristy. Apparently the Spanish government may give some kind of grant if you study in UK but are a Spanish resident. I would like to get more information if anyone knows anything

Thanks


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