# moving to netherlands: a few related questions (utrecht specific))



## sam2nl

Hi, 

I am looking forward to move from Singapore to Netherlands, sometimes around the end of September. I have a few related questions regarding the move. 

My office is in Haarlem, but I could not find a place in any IB schools near Haarlem for my son. Fortunately, the new international school opening in Utrecht had a place and so I need to live in Utrecht for this year. Maybe next year, I can try to find a school closer to Haarlem, so that my commute time decreases. 

Related questions: 

1)
The school is somewhere in the oost area. What are good places/suburbs around that area ? I have been checking a few sites sites for apartments/houses Problem is I have no idea of the area that is considered good vs something that is considered bad. I read somewhere that Wilheminapark and Wittevrouwen are considered good while others suggesting Leidche Rijn. stopdecriminaliteit website shows a lot of crimes in some areas while relatively low in Leidche Rijn. So what are considered good areas/neighbourhoods ?

2)
I heard that its not easy to get seats in trains during peak hours. So is it recommended to buy a second hand car/suv and drive, or use the public transport ? Trains/Bus will probably be lower with a monthly pass. google maps shows approx travel time around 50 minutes either via a car or train. So what would you recommend ? get a second hand car and drive or use the trains? Any chances of getting robbed/mugged in trains ? 

3) 
Why are sometimes houses cheaper than apartments ? 

4) 
What does Price inclusive Gas, Water, Electricity means ? does it mean all the bill is covered in the rent and no need to pay extra on top? 

5)
Based on the StopDeCriminaliteit website's burglary reports, which seems to be a lot, is it safer to look for a crowded apartment in near city rather than a nice house in a a not-so-crowded place (as seen via Google map) ? If I were a burglar, i would naturally go to a quiet house  than a crowded apartment. 

6) 
Which bank do you recommend ? 
- based on wait times, phone wait times, atm lines, online banking features, etc

7) 
Which company for mobile/internet/tv ? 
- low roaming charge, good 3g/mobile internt coverage etc


Thanks,
Sam


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## FinnAbroad

I recommend doing more research on Netherlands before moving there, as you seem to be rather ill-informed (SUVs are non-existent and pointless in such a tiny country with cramped cities and towns, being afraid of muggings in trains, etc.).



sam2nl said:


> 2)
> I heard that its not easy to get seats in trains during peak hours. So is it recommended to buy a second hand car/suv and drive, or use the public transport ? Trains/Bus will probably be lower with a monthly pass. google maps shows approx travel time around 50 minutes either via a car or train. So what would you recommend ? get a second hand car and drive or use the trains? Any chances of getting robbed/mugged in trains ?


When I used trains for commute I used 1st class. There are almost always seats in 1st class, but 2nd indeed does get full and you might need to stand. Check ns.nl on how big the difference in price is.

My priority: 1st class and sit, 2nd class and sometimes stand for 50 mins, or car. Don't even think about an SUV, it'll be a nightmare to drive in NL.

You will not get mugged on trains lol I don't know what you think of Holland, but it's not _that _bad of a country (although I'm dying to move out ASAP).



> 4)
> What does Price inclusive Gas, Water, Electricity means ? does it mean all the bill is covered in the rent and no need to pay extra on top?


Correct.



> 6)
> Which bank do you recommend ?
> - based on wait times, phone wait times, atm lines, online banking features, etc


They all suck. Get used to hearing "it's impossible" (favorite phrase for the Dutch) and general incompetence when dealing with banks, and pretty much any business. Multiply by 10 when talking to public officials.

In fairness ABN AMRO has quite good internet banking. Bonus is that you don't have to deal with rude Dutch.



> 7)
> Which company for mobile/internet/tv ?
> - low roaming charge, good 3g/mobile internt coverage etc


Anything but KPN, I've had nothing but nightmare from them, and several other people have said the same.


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## sam2nl

Hi, 

Thank you for all the answers.
Just one more question. Are there any areas/neighborhoods in Utrecht considered good. 
Good in terms of easy transportation, shops, (less crime ?) etc


Thanks
Sam


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## cschrd2

I would say ING is quite decent as back. For 80€/ you get 2 credit cards, 2 ATM cards and unlimited ATM withdraws world wide for free. The Internet banking also works quite decent. 
I would propose to travel by train from Utrecht to haarlem as by car you have to go through one of the most congested corridors (A2/A9 or A2/A4). Seating in the train has improved substantially, but best is taking a first class (95% guarantee seating). To really move around you would need a car, typically people use a smaller one due to road taxes (by weight) and fuel cost (1.8€/ltr).
For Internet I have used Ziggo (cable provider) for phone/TV/Internet. A decent package will cost about 50€/month. Mobile all are very similar. Even cost over 2 years the final charge is similar.
Safety depends on the area but also on your own behavior. In general I consider the Netherlands as safe although in some area there is crime. Surely the split is not as clear as in many US cities. In Utrecht you can check via some websites how safe residential area are (ie jaap.nl). The info is visible if you look for houses in a certain area.
Good luck!


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## sam2nl

Hi, 

Thank you. I will look forward to either ING or ABN-AMRO. 
maps.google.com, get directions show 3 possible routes from utrecht to haarlem.
A2-A9, A1 and A9. 

Putting possible home address and office address,via maps.google.com get directions: bus shows 1 hour 45 minutes approx (including walking, bus waiting, train times), while driving, even using A9 and via Hilversum shows 1 hour 5 minutes, while using A2-A9 shows 45-60 minutes. Getting a small second-hand car seems logical ( considerable savings of at least 2 hours per day if via car). 
But those are google maps time. If anyone is driving from utrecht to amsterdam or haarlem via car to reach office at say 8:15 or 8:30, what are the realistic times taking the daily congestion in peak office hours as a factor. 

Thank you for the links to ziggo and jaap.nl.


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## cschrd2

Bus in Holland for long distance is no option. Train takes station to station 45 min. I have done it before (from Den Bosch to Haarlem on a daily basis and I changed to train because the wait in traffic jam around Amsterdam is just too much for me (but that for every individual different).


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## ardhanari

Hi Sam
don't worry about crime in Utrecht. It's a safe city - it's not a big city by any standards - crime is in places like Rotterdam and to a lesser extent in Amsterdam. I've lived in Utrecht 20+ years and have never had any trouble apart from my car getting broken into a few times - but that happens everywhere in europe. Leidsche Rijn is a pretty dead place and far away from the centre of town and that's why there may not be much report of crime but there are a lot of bored teenagers with nothing to do there so that's not great either. We live in the centre of town in an old canal house and at night there can be lots of drunk idiots staggering up and down. Willhelmina and Wittevrouwen are expensive and quite exclusive - not many immigrants -it's mostly white and middle class. You seem very concerned about crime and burglary - I personally don't know anyone who has been burgled in Utrecht. People get burgled when they go on holiday and make it obvious that they aren't at home. A flat with a communal front door and then a private appartment door as the only entry point is safer than a house with a garden naturally. But that depends on how criminal your neighbours are I guess...
Housing ($$) is all about like location, just like anywhere else - but definately don't move into Kanaleneiland, Overvecht or Lunetten. They're the only 3 to definately cross off your list!
Bank - go ING. They have a very good internet banking system and their IBAN system is better than SNS for instance. I hate ABN for personal reasons and the Rabobank is a horrible backward farmers bank with each branche having its own franchise rules and a very bad attitude to credit.
Vodafone is what I've always used since 97 but they are sharks just like the rest. Get a prepaid simcard and not an account or you'll get caught out somehow with their sales pitches...
I hate the public transport in Holland. I never use trains and have a car and a motorcycle as the main road to Amsterdam (A2) has recently been widened. My wife uses the trains regularly and is often late or has to wait ages for a train that neber comes. It only has to snow here and you find that the whole country comes to a standstill. You won't be mugged on a train unless you travel late at night and on routes that pass through bad areas. Mostly the agression in trains is directed at the ticket collectors.

If you need any more specific info or help on Utrecht let me know...


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## sam2nl

Hi ardhanari/all 

Thank you for the helpful answers. I came to the Netherlands for 4 days to sign the contract and had a chance to travel to Utrecht. Based on your suggestion, I visited the Willhelmina, Wittevrouwen and additionally Tuindorp and Tuinwijk ( my HR said those are also nice areas) 

The train ride was nice but I did not met any ticket collector. I guess it was due to being at off-peak time. Going from Haarlem to Utrecht, I found how the time is spent going from one platform to another and changing trains and waiting. The bus ride was nice though. 

I was able to see good ( from the outside) second hand cars upto €5000 . VERSUS
In this page, De nieuwe Kia Rio 2011. Belastingvrij. A-label. 14% bijtelling. Standaard opmerkelijk! , which I checked via google translate , it says the new kia rio has no bpm and raod tax. 

For this what do you recommend ?

Is it profitable/advisable to buy a second hand car upto €5000 ? What is the average BPM/Road Tax like for say a second hand BMW 320 / 2002 model with more than 300000 kms The KIA RIO looks good, but I might prefer a second hand sedans to a brand new hatchback. 

Now all I need to do is try to find an agent and check for available houses. 


Thanks,
Sam





ardhanari said:


> Hi Sam
> don't worry about crime in Utrecht. It's a safe city - it's not a big city by any standards - crime is in places like Rotterdam and to a lesser extent in Amsterdam. I've lived in Utrecht 20+ years and have never had any trouble apart from my car getting broken into a few times - but that happens everywhere in europe. Leidsche Rijn is a pretty dead place and far away from the centre of town and that's why there may not be much report of crime but there are a lot of bored teenagers with nothing to do there so that's not great either. We live in the centre of town in an old canal house and at night there can be lots of drunk idiots staggering up and down. Willhelmina and Willhelmina are expensive and quite exclusive - not many immigrants -it's mostly white and middle class. You seem very concerned about crime and burglary - I personally don't know anyone who has been burgled in Utrecht. People get burgled when they go on holiday and make it obvious that they aren't at home. A flat with a communal front door and then a private appartment door as the only entry point is safer than a house with a garden naturally. But that depends on how criminal your neighbours are I guess...
> Housing ($$) is all about like location, just like anywhere else - but definately don't move into Kanaleneiland, Overvecht or Lunetten. They're the only 3 to definately cross off your list!
> Bank - go ING. They have a very good internet banking system and their IBAN system is better than SNS for instance. I hate ABN for personal reasons and the Rabobank is a horrible backward farmers bank with each branche having its own franchise rules and a very bad attitude to credit.
> Vodafone is what I've always used since 97 but they are sharks just like the rest. Get a prepaid simcard and not an account or you'll get caught out somehow with their sales pitches...
> I hate the public transport in Holland. I never use trains and have a car and a motorcycle as the main road to Amsterdam (A2) has recently been widened. My wife uses the trains regularly and is often late or has to wait ages for a train that neber comes. It only has to snow here and you find that the whole country comes to a standstill. You won't be mugged on a train unless you travel late at night and on routes that pass through bad areas. Mostly the agression in trains is directed at the ticket collectors.
> 
> If you need any more specific info or help on Utrecht let me know...


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