# CDN retiring in MX: preparations?



## leegleze (Oct 1, 2007)

Hola Amigos! I'm an almost-60 year old female living in British Columbia. Having lived & worked in Mexico on an FM3 (now expired) for just under five years, I have decided to retire there, near Puerto Vallarta. Because all my friends down there are Americans, I need some help regarding Canadian regulations. My questions involve the steps in preparation for the move:

1. When should I apply for FM2 (I will eventually be buying property, so I understand an FM2 is required). Should I do it from the MX consulate in Vancouver, or once I get to MX?
2. When should I apply for a pension: Just before or after my 60th birthday in late September/08?
3. Should I tell gov't personnel that I plan on living there year round, or should I just keep mum? I hear that, unless I have a CDN address (my son's?), I will not get the GIS (Guaranteed Income Supplement) I'm entitled to due to my low income, if I'm living in another country. Is this true?
4. Any other advice you may have? I appreciate every little tid-bit I can gather about gov't processes, etc.

Thank you so much for your help.


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## sparks (Jun 17, 2007)

I don't know all the Canadian stuff ... but you don't need an FM2 to buy property. (the only exception to that has to do with Captial Gains tax when selling - just a rumor at this point). Also an expired FM3 is like you've never lived here and will have to start over.

Most Canadians I know can't be out of country over 6 months (or so) to keep a certain type of medical coverage. Other than that, no limits if it like SSI in the US.


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## pedro (May 15, 2007)

you do not qualify for the supplement "legally" living out of country.might i suggest that including your son in a fraud is not a nice thing to do.
you do not have to even have an fmt to buy property in mexico.
contact the mexican consulate in vancouver to find out how you can qualify for an fm3 which is all you will need to live in mexico. contact cpp "before" your 60th birthday if you want to start collecting this earliest. do it by phone-they are very helpfull.
i am canadian and do everything legally.


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## leegleze (Oct 1, 2007)

Okay, Pedro, I guess I've been told now, eh? For heaven's sake, please don't jump to conclusions. I had heard that you had to have a CDN address in order to collect GIS, but did not know that this is a fraudulent practise. I was simply inquiring as to whether my assumption was correct ... not in any way attempting to defraud the government. Of course, I want to do it legally ... that's why I'm asking the questions! I guess I'll ask them on another forum where the folks aren't quite so cranky.

And thank you, Sparks, for your reply. It was very helpful.


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## RVGRINGO (May 16, 2007)

You need not apply for an FM3 (you can buy property with it) until you are in Mexico and have an address. The exception would be if you are going to ship household goods on a 'menaje de casa.' That would require getting an FM3 within 90 days of your entry into Mexico, registering it when you arrive at your destination and within 30 days of crossing the border.
You'll need a response from an experienced Canadian expat for the questions which relate to Canadian rules.
Be sure you want to live on the coast and experience the oppressive 'hot & humid' for much of the year before you decide to purchase property. Many northerners find that climate intolerable through the summer and fall and need to escape to higher ground and cooler climes in Central Mexico. Maintaining two seasonal homes can be both inconvenient and expensive. We find it better to live in 'perpetual springtime' and go to the beach at the appropriate season for a mini-vacation.


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## synthia (Apr 18, 2007)

I'm not Canadian, but I've listened to a couple of people talk their way through this. There is a piece of the Canadian retirement income that you are not entitled to unless you are a Canadian resident, and you will lose your medical care if you are away for, I think, more than a year, and have to return to Canada and go through a waiting period to get them back. Check into all this carefully.


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## leegleze (Oct 1, 2007)

Thank you so much, RVGringo and Synthia. I certainly heed your caution about the hot and humid summers. In fact, having lived there year-round for close to five years, I often tell tourists not to come at that time of year. I have a friend living in San Sebastian del Oeste whose villa I will share for the hottest months. 

I'm also delighted to hear that I can wait to apply for the FM3, since mine expired 2 years ago, until I actually purchase property. I find it much easier to deal with the MX government while I'm right there and can see the whites of their eyes, so to speak.

RV, the menaje de casa does scare me a little, but as long as I can find a good translator, I'm told I should be okay, right? I was also told that every tiny little thing must be declared on the menaje, from large furniture right down to each item in my pencil box (eg. listed as: "6 ball-point pens, 2 staplers, 2 erasers, 1 ruler," etc.). Is THIS true, or can I just simply list the items as (for example): "1 brown pencil box and writing equipment"?

Fortunately, I will not be taking any large items like appliances or furniture, although I have a couple of paintings I would like to take with me. I do have a dog and cat which I have transported to and from MX on several occasions, so the paperwork there won't be a problem.

Thanks again for your kind assistance!


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## RVGRINGO (May 16, 2007)

*Menaje de Casa?*



leegleze said:


> RV, the menaje de casa does scare me a little, but as long as I can find a good translator, I'm told I should be okay, right? I was also told that every tiny little thing must be declared on the menaje, from large furniture right down to each item in my pencil box (eg. listed as: "6 ball-point pens, 2 staplers, 2 erasers, 1 ruler," etc.). Is THIS true, or can I just simply list the items as (for example): "1 brown pencil box and writing equipment"?
> 
> Fortunately, I will not be taking any large items like appliances or furniture, although I have a couple of paintings I would like to take with me. I do have a dog and cat which I have transported to and from MX on several occasions, so the paperwork there won't be a problem.!


I wouldn't think that you would need to list every paper clip or pencil for items of that nature. However, any electronics will require specifics regarding age, serial number, etc.
If you are not bringing furniture and appliances, you may not need a 'menaje de casa.' Certainly not if you are bringing it down yourself in an SUV, for example. We did that, with a pod on top and a trailer as far as the border. We put the trailer load in a Laredo self storage unit, turned in the U-Haul and continued on. A few weeks later, we went back for the remainder; no problems at all and we were still in FMT status.
However, if you are shipping goods you will need a mover and/or customs broker and they will tell you exactly what you need to do. I have no personal experience using their services.


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## pedro (May 15, 2007)

you can see the"whites of there eyes" right in the mexican consulate in vancouver. i had dealings with them and the sub consulate in calgary and they were both very helpful. we got our fm3's in calgary and registered them in guadalajara when we got here. you can get it done even quicker in vancouver than calgary.
you can go to the mexican embassy site in ottawa.
why are you so set against getting your information from the proper authorities?
they will tell you that you don't have to count every paper clip or fork in your menaje de casa among other things.
they will also tell you that you need a rental or owner[yours] address in mexico for them to even issue you one. a b&b or hotel address will not suffice[you have to show proof of address.
but go ahead and take advice from 2 americans on a chat board. although they both mean well,i'm sure neither of them have had dealings with the aformentioned consulates.
we managed to cross into mexico with a full pick-up truck and 10 foot trailer with paintings,some antique furniture, 2 dogs, electronics,a motorcycle, an entire wood working shop and a full mechanics tool box. the aduano simply asked to look in the trailer and the pick-up , said adios and away we went after getting our sticker for the vehicles.


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## synthia (Apr 18, 2007)

OK, pedro, all I told her was to check things carefully. And RVGRINGO lives in Mexico and is very knowledgeable. Furthermore, he had just described the same experience of driving into Mexico as you did.

No one here is saying they are the final official word. What the OP is looking for is some background and other people's experiences. Frequently, the official position, which is what a consulate will give you, has very little to do with what really happens. For instance, the official rule in Panama is that I should have been given a 30-day renewable tourist card, but I was given one for 90 days. Total reliance on either kind of information is usuallly a mistake.


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## sparks (Jun 17, 2007)

Look at Rolly Brook's site for good moving to Mexico info ... including a Sample Menaje


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## pedro (May 15, 2007)

synthia said:


> OK, pedro, all I told her was to check things carefully. And RVGRINGO lives in Mexico and is very knowledgeable. Furthermore, he had just described the same experience of driving into Mexico as you did.
> 
> No one here is saying they are the final official word. What the OP is looking for is some background and other people's experiences. Frequently, the official position, which is what a consulate will give you, has very little to do with what really happens. For instance, the official rule in Panama is that I should have been given a 30-day renewable tourist card, but I was given one for 90 days. Total reliance on either kind of information is usuallly a mistake.


i also live in mexico in the same town[chapala] as rvgringo. before we moved here i did a lot of research[8 years of it and i have been coming to mexico since 1978] on boards like this and other sources including rollyb's most helpful site. you will note that i said in my post that i had "good" experiences with the "same" consulates that she will have to deal with. some of the info i got on boards was ok but a lot of it was bs.when i want serious info on immigrating to mexico,income tax and pensions. the first place i go for it is the respective officials and fellow canadians,not germans chinese or americans. by the way ,rv, did not describe the same experience i had with importing our household. i had a list with me in english in case they wouldn't let me continue. i would have gone back to el paso to fedex brokers,who i had used for 18 years to export antiques into the usa,and had them do the proper paper work.
but i would go to you[an american] for example, if you lived where i wanted to immigrate to where you are, for day to day info on that place and border crossing advice based on your experiences.
it's too bad you had some bad consular experiences;i did not and neither will she with the mexican consulate in vancouver,CANADA. she will also get excellent advice on how and when to apply for her pension by phoning the 800# for the CANADA pension plan.


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## synthia (Apr 18, 2007)

Pedro - Our nationality doesn't affect the responses we made. We merely related our esperiences and, in my case, advised the OP to check regulations carefully. Are you trying to say that my advice was bad and that regulations should not be checked if one is Canadian, regulations shouldn't be checked? This is a forum, where people offer up what information, opinions, and advice they have.


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## Mayfirst (Apr 10, 2008)

*Just to Clarify?*

Hi everyone. This is my first post. I have recently purchased a home in Mexico and will be going back in the fall for at least six months. I stumbled upon this topic via Google as I am looking for information on importing goods from Canada.

Here is my situation. I want to drive an old (1993) pickup truck to Mexico and load the back of it with personal effects (it has a canopy) i.e. TV, small appliances, dishes, maybe a few small pieces of furniture etc. I want to leave the truck in Mexico. I was thinking that I would have to fly down, get my FM3 and manaje de casa, then return to Canada, load up the truck and drive back. 

Do I understand correctly that I can enter Mexico on an FMT with my truck and personal effects without having an FM3 and a Manaje de casa in advance? If so, this would be awesome as it would save me the flight down and back. Would I have problems at the Mexican border explaining why I am importing things on a tourist visa? I know I need an FM3 in order to leave the truck there.

Also, would I have trouble crossing into the US with this stuff in the back of the truck? 

I live in Victoria so going back and forth to the consulate in Vancouver to get an FM3 is too cumbersome for me. I have also read that it could be a big pain to obtain an FM3 from a consulate and often the paperwork they give you is not complete or incorrect once you get to the border. 

I'd really appreciate clarification on this subject. I'd love to hear from someone who has made a similar trip. 

Thanks!


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## RVGRINGO (May 16, 2007)

*A truckload...*

"Do I understand correctly that I can enter Mexico on an FMT with my truck and personal effects without having an FM3 and a Manaje de casa in advance? If so, this would be awesome as it would save me the flight down and back. Would I have problems at the Mexican border explaining why I am importing things on a tourist visa? I know I need an FM3 in order to leave the truck there."

You understand correctly, so long as the goods are 'used personal possessions' over six months old. Have all electronic stuff inventoried with serial numbers, date and place of purchase, etc., just in case.


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## pedro (May 15, 2007)

i don't know what else i can tell you other than what i have posted already.
i had to drive to calgary consulate twice so i don't see you having a huge inconvienance going to van from vic.


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## Mayfirst (Apr 10, 2008)

*Thank you*

Thanks so much for the information. The reason why the Vancouver consulate would be a bother is mainly because of having to take the ferry back and forth. It is expensive and time consuming and most likely would involve hotel costs. I know that in the big scheme of things actually going to Mexico would cost more but I am going there anyway! I had also understood that it may take two or three or even more trips to get everything in order and at the end of the day I would have no guarantee that the paperwork would be correct. I'm glad Pedro that your experience was positive. I appreciate you taking the time to answer me.


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## cayzer (Apr 19, 2008)

*Moving to Jocotepec*

Hello to all forum participants vigorously discussing issues of moving, pensions, FM3's, etc. Its very relevant to us, my husband and I (how royal), returned 2 weeks ago from 4 months RVing in Jalisco incl 3 months in Melaque watching the corrosion! Our homeward trip was to be via GUAD,including two days in Roca Azul. Two weeks later we're in love with Joco, climate, culture etc plus have an accepted offer on a modest Joco house. We live in Gulf Islands and return to Joco Oct 1st. Our research indicates that we should plan on applying for our FM3 from Vancouvers Mexican consulate because it has to be registered in Mexico within 3 months of it being issued and we have to allow 8 weeks to get it before leaving. So thats our info so far, have not actually done it yet. As for eligibility issues around pension entitlements, health care, etc Our practise is also to do the work and obtain info from official departments. In Joco, we will need to do reno's. It is challenging (impossible) to set up trades or even research materials from here, hence I am hoping someone would share info on their experiences/names etc. we will need tile setters, someone to tear down and take away large cement things (shelves, columns, a bar etc), new kitchen cupboards, electrician to hook up the hot water to the kitchen. Purchasing decent appliances for kitchen tips, and can I buy ok used furniture at the Bazaars?. . Its a long list but if I can make some headway from here - then yeah Team!


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## RVGRINGO (May 16, 2007)

*Welcome*

Welcome to the forum and to Lake Chapala. We've been here almost seven years and will be able to suggest our contractor for your renovations and can give you several names of friends who have used him, based on our recommendation.
Unless you are shipping household goods on a menaje de casa, you can apply for your FM3s in Chapala or Guadalajara after you arrive. If you do them abroad, you will have to enter Mexico within that time frame you mentioned and then, you will still have to go through the process of registering them within 30 days of arrival. Since you own a home in Mexico, you will be able to provide proof of residence. You will also need proof of income from abroad in the form of bank statements. Have a joint account in order to avoid dependency and inheritance issues.
If you have last minutes questions, drop me a PM when you get here.


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## pedro (May 15, 2007)

hola!
as one who has gone through it all[from alberta] you may pm me and i'll give you my alberta vonage phone #. i have a contractor who lives in el chante and can do amazing things.
you'll love jocotepec-that was our second choice-i have many friends there,both mexican and ferners.
the mex consulate in van is excellent.


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## cayzer (Apr 19, 2008)

*Contractors referral*



RVGRINGO said:


> Welcome to the forum and to Lake Chapala. We've been here almost seven years and will be able to suggest our contractor for your renovations and can give you several names of friends who have used him, based on our recommendation.
> Unless you are shipping household goods on a menaje de casa, you can apply for your FM3s in Chapala or Guadalajara after you arrive. If you do them abroad, you will have to enter Mexico within that time frame you mentioned and then, you will still have to go through the process of registering them within 30 days of arrival. Since you own a home in Mexico, you will be able to provide proof of residence. You will also need proof of income from abroad in the form of bank statements. Have a joint account in order to avoid dependency and inheritance issues.
> If you have last minutes questions, drop me a PM when you get here.


 We are most appreciative and relieved of the offer of your contractors name. Amazing that a forum like this exists for folks to share issues and information, it seemed an impossibility from Canada. Would also need to know how to contact contractor - imagine it will have to be in person when we arrive. Regards.


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## cayzer (Apr 19, 2008)

pedro said:


> hola!
> as one who has gone through it all[from alberta] you may pm me and i'll give you my alberta vonage phone #. i have a contractor who lives in el chante and can do amazing things.
> you'll love jocotepec-that was our second choice-i have many friends there,both mexican and ferners.
> the mex consulate in van is excellent.


We were so pleased to hear from you and the infor on your el chante contractor. Have no idea on how to PM you. I am an ex-Northern Albertan will appreciate any tips coming our way. And thanks for the reassuring words about choosing Joco, it all seemed perfect at the time and there is no buyers remorse just nice to hear that our instincts were right. Cannot wait to return.
Regards


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## pedro (May 15, 2007)

i have sent you a pm. to retrieve it,look at the top right hand of this page and open it.
you need to be logged in to read your pm's


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## mazatman (Apr 20, 2008)

*Canada's Federal Pensions*

Canada's Old Age Pension (OAP) and the Guaranteed Income Supplement (GIS) are payable to those 65 and older. To be eligible for GIS you must reside in Canada and have a low enough income to qualify. Non-residents of Canada are not entitled to GIS and are subject to a 15% non-resident withholding tax on their OAP, although you can apply for relief on this. 

Canadians can qualify for Canada Pension Plan (CPP) commencing at age 60. There are no residency requirements and like OAP it is subject to 15% non-resident w/h tax. If you start receiving your CPP prior to age 65 it will be at a reduced rate compared to what you would get at 65 or older. 

I believe you can apply for OAP up to one year before you reach 65 and the CPP up to one year before you are eligible to receive it.


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## pedro (May 15, 2007)

there is a certain question on the 217[i think that's the application form] that if you answer truthfully you will be rejected for the 15% tax on your income as outlined in the tax treaty with mexico and canada.
we were declared as "factual"residents of alberta.so we pay income tax as if we still lived there. since we file jointly nothing is witheld on my cpp nor will it be witheld on my oap when i start getting it in july.
we pay less than 15% this way even tho we are fm3 residents of mexico and have no assets in canada except our banking and the various pensions we get.
you apply for cpp and oap 6 months before you are eligable.


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## mazatman (Apr 20, 2008)

Canadians are entitled to ask the Canada Revenue Agency (CRA) to determine their "residency" or "non-residency" status for tax purposes using form NR73. Most are told that they are "factual" or continuing residents of Canada, even if they live in Mexico full-time. Non-residency status is difficult to attain. 

The new Canada Mexico Tax Treaty stipulates that 15% withholding tax be withheld on pensions originating in Canada and paid to Non-Residents living in Mexico.
There are no capital gains taxes payable by Canadian Non-Residents living in Mexico. 

Some examples of the tax consequences:
1.)A retired Canadian with a $70,000. pension living full-time in Mexico who is judged by CRA to be a continuing resident of Canada would pay about $16,500 in taxes but the same person would only pay only (15%) $10,500. if they were a Non-Resident. 
2.) A person with lower income, say below $32,000. would be better off paying tax as a continuing resident of Canada as opposed to the Non-Resident rate of 15%. 
_Please_do your own calculations as provincial tax rates and deductions vary.

Just because the CRA decides that you are a continuing resident of Canada for tax purposes, that does not mean that you don't have to live in Canada to qualify for other benefits, such as: provincial health care, GIS, or even a driver's license all of which require you to be physically resident in Canada, at some time. Having any of these benefits will normally cause CRA to rule that you are a continuing resident of Canada. If you live fulł-time in Mexico and are honest you would not be entitled to any of these benefits, IMHO. There are exceptions, of course.


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## pedro (May 15, 2007)

you can get these forms from the cra on line[the 217 and the nr73]. we are jumping with joy that they declared us factual residents[after a year of back and forth total bullfarb] as it means my cerveza money stays intact.they told me we could have it reviewed again if we want-jarjar! they even sent a letter, after i phoned them, to cpp to stop causing me cerveza hardship.
my imss costs less than my alberta health care did. the only thing i need from the canuck gummint is me beer money and the use of the consulate in guad to renew my passport every 5 years.
if you have an opinion-never let it be said to be humble. some puter jargon sucks.
if you live in melaque,give my regards to mi amigo sparks-por favor.


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