# Is a family visa required for Permesso di Soggiorno?



## Aratal (Jul 4, 2012)

Hi,

I'm probably beating a dead horse at this point, but different official websites and representatives from the consulate have been telling me different things. I tried clarifying with them again today, but didn't really get anywhere after several phone calls and emails.

My situation is this: I recently just married my Italian husband in the United States. He went back to Italy, and after my lease expires this fall, I plan to join him. We have registered our marriage with the Italian Consulate, and are just waiting to have my husband's commune let us know that the marriage has been recorded there with him.

My question is this: 
In order to apply for a permesso di soggiorno for family reasons, almost every website out there says I need to have a family visa if I wish to stay in Italy for more than 90 days. I have been told otherwise by the consulate, saying I just need the marriage registered and I can apply for my permesso di soggiorno.* The requirements say that the permit must match the length of stay my visa says. If I enter with a tourist visa, how is it that I can get a PdS for more than 90 days? *

I'm having my husband call his questura and commune tomorrow to clarify further, but I'd like to see if anyone else has been in a similar situation.

Thanks for your help!

-Aratal


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## NickZ (Jun 26, 2009)

I forget the correct terms but he'd need to request a family reunification. So no you wouldn't need a visa.

Finally if he's in Italy why hasn't he taken his marriage certificate to the town hall? It's a lot easier for him to walk in and say here please update my file.


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## BBCWatcher (Dec 28, 2012)

NickZ said:


> Finally if he's in Italy why hasn't he taken his marriage certificate to the town hall? It's a lot easier for him to walk in and say here please update my file.


No, they married in the U.S., so either way the marriage certificate has to pass through the consulate having jurisdiction over the place of marriage. It'd probably take longer starting on the commune side, actually, because they'd have to send it back to the consulate to verify its authenticity. Aratal is doing well.

Here are the instructions, on page 8. Your requirement is to enter legally, just as that government-published guide states. Entering Italy under the Schengen visa waiver program is legal. ("With the visa if required" obviously means that some foreign family members don't need visas. You are one of those lucky ones as a U.S. citizen.) Unless and until somebody finds an official government publication that says otherwise, that's the requirement. And I'm pleased to hear your consulate described the requirements correctly for your particular situation.

If the airline gives you trouble because you didn't buy a roundtrip ticket and you don't (yet) have a PdS/CdS in hand, just be prepared to buy a fully refundable return or onward ticket on a credit card. It's rare the airline will raise an objection if you're on a one-way ticket, but it's possible and easily resolved on the spot. Don't immediately volunteer a solution, though.

Congratulations, and best wishes.


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## NickZ (Jun 26, 2009)

BBCWatcher said:


> No, they married in the U.S., so either way the marriage certificate has to pass through the consulate having jurisdiction over the place of marriage. .



If he's resident in Italy the consulate shouldn't even talk to him on issues like this. He's also required to update his file at the commune.


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## BBCWatcher (Dec 28, 2012)

NickZ said:


> If he's resident in Italy the consulate shouldn't even talk to him on issues like this.


I'm afraid you are mistaken. It's a foreign (non-EU) certificate, and foreign certificates always pass by the consulate having jurisdiction over its origin. He can submit the certificate in either location for recording in his commune, but the consulate is going to see that foreign certificate before the marriage gets recorded. Communes are not qualified to judge the authenticity of foreign records, and they don't try. They rely on consular officers to perform that function.



> He's also required to update his file at the commune.


Yes, he is. And whether he initiates that process through the consulate or his commune, that'll happen. Fortunately he submitted the certificate to the consulate having jurisdiction over the event (the marriage), and therefore that certificate will not take one extra unnecessary trip across the Atlantic Ocean.


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## NickZ (Jun 26, 2009)

No he isn't resident in the consular district. They SHOULDN'T even touch his file.

Hate to break it do you but many communes routinely handle foreign documents. 

Not to mention if you're sitting at a desk in Italy and receive a letter from the consulate you'll likely put it on the bottom of the AIRE pile. If you happen to notice it's not an AIRE you'll ask yourself why the person didn't just come into your office.


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## BBCWatcher (Dec 28, 2012)

NickZ, the commune will likely accept the foreign document. I do not disagree with that. But it'll still go to the consulate having jurisdiction over its place of origin before they can record it. Thus in the original poster's case your (now moot) suggestion means the foreign document will take two trips across the Atlantic Ocean, not one. And there's nothing _wrong_ with that, but transoceanic paper pushing takes time.

Yes, I have recorded my marriage with my commune in Italy. The marriage took place in a foreign jurisdiction where I did not reside, just like the original poster's husband. Yes, conceivably I could have submitted that foreign certificate directly to my commune for two ocean hops. I chose one ocean hop and sent it to the consulate having jurisdiction over the certificate issuing office. The consulates even provide forms on their Web sites for recording births, marriages, divorces, etc. that occur within their jurisdictions. There is no requirement for residency within those jurisdictions. They'll get the foreign certificates to the right communes with their blessing (stamp), ready for recording. These days they may even send them electronically.

Occasionally a commune _might_ bypass the consular document check before recording, but they're not supposed to.

In any event, the original poster and her husband followed the perfectly fine process to get their marriage recorded in Italy. They should have no problem, and their marriage should be recorded as quickly as the bureaucracy provides.


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## mrbny (Dec 28, 2013)

*Exact situation, outcome?*

Aratal, my husband and I are in the exact situation, we married in the US and I am planning a move to Italy to live with him. The italian consulate and italian immigration office say we don't need the visa, but their official websites do.

Did you in fact get a visa, or just apply for the permesso or carta di soggiorno in Italy? 

Thanks!



Aratal said:


> Hi,
> 
> I'm probably beating a dead horse at this point, but different official websites and representatives from the consulate have been telling me different things. I tried clarifying with them again today, but didn't really get anywhere after several phone calls and emails.
> 
> ...


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## Aratal (Jul 4, 2012)

mrbny said:


> Aratal, my husband and I are in the exact situation, we married in the US and I am planning a move to Italy to live with him. The italian consulate and italian immigration office say we don't need the visa, but their official websites do.
> 
> Did you in fact get a visa, or just apply for the permesso or carta di soggiorno in Italy?
> 
> Thanks!


Hi mrbny,

Congratulations on your marriage, first of all. 

BBCWatcher was correct and helped us a lot in the process; I suggest you follow his steps, as they got me here. The consulate and immigration offices were right in telling you that you don't need a visa; the tourist visa is sufficient.

I also found out by consulting an immigration lawyer that the reason the official websites say something differently than they're saying directly to you is because the laws have changed recently and they haven't updated anything on the websites. I spent way too much time trying to find the most updated laws and procedures online, but it was in vain. 

All you need to do is register your marriage with the Italian consulate; they'll forward the paperwork to your husband's comune and when you arrive in Italy, you can pick up a copy of a confirmation letter of the marriage being registered there. From that point, just go to the local questura and apply for the carta di soggiorno. Asking questions helps a lot for all the details because they won't tell you much unless you ask, but it's a lot simpler than I thought it would be.

Best of luck to you!


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## mrbny (Dec 28, 2013)

Thank you! My head is spinning with all the information and questions.



Aratal said:


> Hi mrbny,
> 
> Congratulations on your marriage, first of all.
> 
> ...


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