# visa stamped



## Gregarious (Mar 12, 2012)

Dear Joppa,

Thankx to Allah (SWT), my passport has been stamped today after a long wait. 

It shows that* "visa spouse/cp- spouse/cp of (wife name)(date of birth)"*

1. What does it mean? and 
2. what will be further procedure? 

Please explain it detail.


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## nyclon (Apr 3, 2011)

Gregarious said:


> Dear Joppa,
> 
> Thankx to Allah (SWT), my passport has been stamped today after a long wait.
> 
> ...


It means you were granted a spouse visa. 28 days before you have spent 24 months in the UK and after you have taken and passed the Life in the UK test you can apply for Indefinite Leave to Remain. All the information is explained in detail on the UKBA website:

UK Border Agency | Settling in the UK


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## WestCoastCanadianGirl (Mar 17, 2012)

*Helpful Hint* 

_Take the Life in the UK exam a.s.a.p., or at least _before_ October 1, 2013. The new requirements for English Language fluency and the LiUK test start then, and it wouldn't surprise me if the UKBA makes both of those exams a) more expensive to write and b) more difficult to pass._

You can order hard copies of the _official_ handbook from whence the questions are based, the _official_ study guide and the _official_ associated practice tests at most bookshops across the UK. You can also buy a hard copy or a digital edition of all of these books directly from The Stationery Office bookshop as well (it's quite the tidy little racket that the government has going, eh?! :doh: ).

Anyway, congratulations to you and good luck on the test(s)!


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## nyclon (Apr 3, 2011)

> Take the Life in the UK exam a.s.a.p., or at least before October 1, 2013. The new requirements for English Language fluency and the LiUK test start then, and it wouldn't surprise me if the UKBA makes both of those exams a) more expensive to write and b) more difficult to pass.


While getting the Life in the UK test out of the way is good advice, this isn't really accurate. If you will be taking your next step in the settlement process after October 2013 you will need to pass the Life in the UK test as well as demonstrate B1 Level English, regardless of whether you started your visa journey before or after 9 July 2012.


Check page Appendix E on page 68 of the Statement of Intent.


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## WestCoastCanadianGirl (Mar 17, 2012)

True, but wouldn't it be easier to at least get the LiUK out of the way now, since the handbook and study guide and sample questions gives us an idea as to what to expect, and spend the extra time on concentrating on the English component (if applicable)?


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## AnAmericanInScotland (Feb 8, 2012)

Congratulations, Gregarious, I know you've been working on this for some time. It must be a tremendous relief


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## shellybeans (Feb 12, 2012)

Is the demonstration of B1 English for everyone, including those from English-speaking countries? I have two degrees from American Universities and, jokes from my English husband aside, do consider myself to have a good command of the language. Will I still have to sit a test of English, alongside other Americans and Canadians wishing to be granted ILR? Surely passing the Life in the UK test which is given in English demonstrates command of English in and of itself?


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## WestCoastCanadianGirl (Mar 17, 2012)

shellybeans said:


> Is the demonstration of B1 English for everyone, including those from English-speaking countries? I have two degrees from American Universities and, jokes from my English husband aside, do consider myself to have a good command of the language. Will I still have to sit a test of English, alongside other Americans and Canadians wishing to be granted ILR? Surely passing the Life in the UK test which is given in English demonstrates command of English in and of itself?


You and I (i.e. those from North America) are exempt from the English Language requirement (the Guidance Notes have a list of those countries they give the exemption to) and even if we weren't, your university degrees should more than get you a bye.

We are, however, still liable to do the LiUK prior to applying for ILR (I've read that it'd be a good idea to have it at least a month prior to your application), and it's on that basis that I think it'd be a good move to get it done ASAP and not wait until October 2013, when the English Language _and_ the LiUK become mandatory for all.


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## nyclon (Apr 3, 2011)

shellybeans said:


> Is the demonstration of B1 English for everyone, including those from English-speaking countries? I have two degrees from American Universities and, jokes from my English husband aside, do consider myself to have a good command of the language. Will I still have to sit a test of English, alongside other Americans and Canadians wishing to be granted ILR? Surely passing the Life in the UK test which is given in English demonstrates command of English in and of itself?


Have you read the Statement of Intent? 

Point 114 says: "*all applicants for settlement* will be required to demonstrate a knowledge of language and life in the UK by passing the Life in the UK test and by presenting a speaking and listening qualification at intermediate level (Common European Framework of Reference level B1) or above. " The bold is in the statement, not added by me.

Point 115 says: "The speaking and listening qualification must be secure, robust and generally available in the UK. We will consider these criteria over the coming months and will publish details of acceptable speaking and listening qualifications early next year."

So, maybe, maybe not. I interpret that to mean that they may decide to accept some other evidence but you'll have to wait til next year to know for sure.


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## nyclon (Apr 3, 2011)

WestCoastCanadianGirl said:


> You and I (i.e. those from North America) are exempt from the English Language requirement (the Guidance Notes have a list of those countries they give the exemption to) and even if we weren't, your university degrees should more than get you a bye.


What Guidance Notes are you referring to? Can you provide a link?


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## WestCoastCanadianGirl (Mar 17, 2012)

I was scanning the FLR(M) guidance notes last night at w*rk... Item 21c on page 5 (right hand column) of the April 2012 guidance notes speaks of the countries it considers to be English that are included in the exemption. That same column also addresses the list of countries that the UKBA will consider for English language university qualifications.

It is my understanding (and again, I could very well be wrong), that the English standard for the FLR(M) would be similar to SET(M)/IRL.

If this is not the case, please advise and I'll make the appropriate mental notes in my head.


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## WestCoastCanadianGirl (Mar 17, 2012)

Because I am doubting myself, I have just gone to dig up my S.o.I. and have found that item 115 of the Statement of Intent also says:

_115. The speaking and listening qualification mus t be secure, robust and generally available in the UK. We will consider these criteria over the coming months and will publish details of acceptable speaking and listening qualifications early next year. An applicant who presented, and had accepted, an English language qualification at B1 level or above in connection with a previous application to the UK Border Agency should be able to continue to rely on the qualification as evidence of B1 level speaking and listening skills, provided that no doubts have arisen about its genuineness._

I would interpret that as being that since there is precedence of have an English Language Requirement exemption based on country of origin (i.e. everyone who qualified for FLR(M)), then that same exemption should be good for the SET(M)/ILR.


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## nyclon (Apr 3, 2011)

WestCoastCanadianGirl said:


> I was scanning the FLR(M) guidance notes last night at w*rk... Item 21c on page 5 (right hand column) of the April 2012 guidance notes speaks of the countries it considers to be English that are included in the exemption. That same column also addresses the list of countries that the UKBA will consider for English language university qualifications.
> 
> It is my understanding (and again, I could very well be wrong), that the English standard for the FLR(M) would be similar to SET(M)/IRL.
> 
> If this is not the case, please advise and I'll make the appropriate mental notes in my head.


Ah well, there you go. These are the rules that are in place now and should you be applying for ILR between now and October 2013, they will certainly apply to you. The Statement of Intent clearly states on page 68, Appendix E of the Transitional Arrangements that after October 2013 you must satisfy both passing the LIUK test and the B1 qualification.



> I would interpret that as being that since there is precedence of have an English Language Requirement exemption based on country of origin (i.e. everyone who qualified for FLR(M)), then that same exemption should be good for the SET(M)/ILR.


I think until they actually make a decision and announce it next year, it's unwise to make assumptions.


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## AnAmericanInScotland (Feb 8, 2012)

Ahem. 

Please refer to the Statement of Intent, page 7, 2nd bullet point, last section of the first sentence (my transcription):

'..., unless they are exempt from the requirement to do so. ...'

That would be those of us hailing from 'English as first language' countries (yes, TX too sorry, couldn't resist an old Texas joke)


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## WestCoastCanadianGirl (Mar 17, 2012)

nyclon said:


> Ah well, there you go. These are the rules that are in place now and should you be applying for ILR between now and October 2013, they will certainly apply to you. The Statement of Intent clearly states on page 68, Appendix E of the Transitional Arrangements that after October 2013 you must satisfy both passing the LIUK test and the B1 qualification.
> 
> 
> 
> I think until they actually make a decision and announce it next year, it's unwise to make assumptions.


_Very_ true... I shall remain hopeful that the exemption sticks.... after all, we were all fearing that the Home Office wouldn't even think about considering grandfathering us pre-July 9'ers into the old rules, but they did. It also give me hope that the current group of countries that has a bye will keep the bye because it would seem like a waste of time for a native English speaker to have to prove that they can  "..._understand the main points of clear standard input on familiar matters regularly encountered in work, school, leisure, etc. Can deal with most situations likely to arise whilst travelling in an area where the language is spoken. Can produce simple connected text on topics which are familiar or of personal interest. Can describe experiences and events, dreams, hopes & ambitions and briefly give reasons and explanations for opinions and plans"__ (the definition of level B1, as expected by the CEFR).

Ah well, I'm not too worried about it, but it would put my mind at ease to know that it's one less thing to have to worry about._


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## AnAmericanInScotland (Feb 8, 2012)

westcoastcanadiangirl said:


> _very_ true... I shall remain hopeful that the exemption sticks.... After all, we were all fearing that the home office wouldn't even think about considering grandfathering us pre-july 9'ers into the old rules, but they did. It also give me hope that the current group of countries that has a bye will keep the bye because it would seem like a waste of time for a native english speaker to have to prove that they can  "..._understand the main points of clear standard input on familiar matters regularly encountered in work, school, leisure, etc. Can deal with most situations likely to arise whilst travelling in an area where the language is spoken. Can produce simple connected text on topics which are familiar or of personal interest. Can describe experiences and events, dreams, hopes & ambitions and briefly give reasons and explanations for opinions and plans"__ (the definition of level b1, as expected by the cefr).
> 
> Ah well, i'm not too worried about it, but it would put my mind at ease to know that it's one less thing to have to worry about._


_

scroll up one post!_


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## shellybeans (Feb 12, 2012)

I have not read the Statement of Intent at all because I am busy trying to sort through and pack up 40 years of belongings while keeping a 4 year old happy on my own in preparation for a move to England next month. But... I was just surprised to think they would want to test my English. I used to TEACH English to adult immigrants here in America. If it is a hoop I need to jump through I'll do it but it just seemed silly to me to imagine I'd need to. Hopefully not... AmericaninScotland's footnote seems to suggest not.

Back to the kitchen drawers I go...


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## WestCoastCanadianGirl (Mar 17, 2012)

AnAmericanInScotland said:


> Ahem.
> 
> Please refer to the Statement of Intent, page 7, 2nd bullet point, last section of the first sentence (my transcription):
> 
> ...


*snatches up S.o.I, furiously flips to page 7 and then gives a ginormous hug to aA_i_S and offers her up a huge box of cookies and resists the urge to scream 'Me fail English? That's unpossible!'* :rofl:


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## WestCoastCanadianGirl (Mar 17, 2012)

As an aside... I think I'd better get some sheet protectors and put my S.o.I. into them, as I have a feeling that they're going to be taking some very heavy abuse over the next 36-40 months.


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## AnAmericanInScotland (Feb 8, 2012)

WestCoastCanadianGirl said:


> *snatches up S.o.I, furiously flips to page 7 and then gives a ginormous hug to aA_i_S and offers her up a huge box of cookies and resists the urge to scream 'Me fail English? That's unpossible!'* :rofl:


No cookies. Donuts, now that I could definitely go for


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## WestCoastCanadianGirl (Mar 17, 2012)

AnAmericanInScotland said:


> No cookies. Donuts, now that I could definitely go for


The only Krispy Kreme in Canada is like 2 miles from where my arse is currently parked at this very minute.... would you like me to overnight you a dozen of those bad boys?


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## AnAmericanInScotland (Feb 8, 2012)

WestCoastCanadianGirl said:


> The only Krispy Kreme in Canada is like 2 miles from where my arse is currently parked at this very minute.... would you like me to overnight you a dozen of those bad boys?


Wait, I just sprayed drool all over the monitor (wipe, wipe, spray screen cleaner on soft cloth, wipe, wipe, spray more cleaner...)

My horrible evil wretched son emails me pics of the donuts on the conveyors being (wait, gotta wipe off the keyboard, damn drool!) sprayed with glaze. 

(Sniffle) The one thing Scotland doesn't have is Krispy Kreme. (Sniffle) I love Scotland. The country has truly amazing bakers. But they don't have Krispy Kreme.

And they don't let food in. My son has already tried :hurt:


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## nyclon (Apr 3, 2011)

Point 2 on page 7 refers to LIUK *and* an English language qualification unless they are exempt.

Point 4 on page 7:

Applicants for settlement currently required to take the Life in the UK test will from October 2013 be required additionally to present an English language speaking and listening qualification at B1 level or above.

Page 28 Point 117:

As now, an applicant for settlement will be exempt from the knowledge of language and life in the UK requirement if they are aged 65 or over, or have a physical or mental condition that prevents them from meeting the requirement. Refugees, those with humanitarian protection, bereaved partners, and victims of domestic violence will continue to be exempt from the knowledge of language and life requirement at the settlement stage.

Maybe I'm dense, but this is the only exemption I can see.

I think the only thing you can feel comfortable about is that you shouldn't have any problem passing an English qualification test.


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## AnAmericanInScotland (Feb 8, 2012)

nyclon said:


> Point 2 on page 7 refers to LIUK *and* an English language qualification unless they are exempt.
> 
> Point 4 on page 7:
> 
> ...


I think we will fall into the exemption category but you're right to advise that we should be cautious about assuming. I've noticed a bit of a disclaimer on the introductory page 8 point 24.

I will say though that I think the exemption now in place for English-as-first-language is going to be continued. I base that on the bullet point I referenced above in a previous (pre-Krispy Kreme diversion) and my experience writing statements for my former employer (did I mention I'm a retired bureaucrat?). There were many times that we would write a statement in paragraph one and then not refer to it again as it was presumed the reader would understand it followed through the entire document.

That was of course the US, the UK may be different. 

I wonder how this would work, how would we have to do this, would we sit an additional test at a different booking, or would common sense prevail and both tests done at the same time.


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## WestCoastCanadianGirl (Mar 17, 2012)

English language test exemption or not, considering that the Home Office is being generous in grandfathering us all in under the old rules, I think that doing the test is a _microscopically small_ price to have to pay in exchange for having 3 years waiting time knocked off of our wait for ILR.

I am grateful for all that I have received thus far, and if the English test exemption isn't included in the package, I'm still very grateful for having received the deal in the first place.


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## nyclon (Apr 3, 2011)

> I think we will fall into the exemption category but you're right to advise that we should be cautious about assuming. I've noticed a bit of a disclaimer on the introductory page 8 point 24.


Basically, don't assume anything. 

From point 24:

All Immigration Rules are subject to review and change and applicants must meet the rules in place at the point of application.


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## JollyCynic (May 1, 2012)

From the SoI, bullet 6 from point 7:


> From October 2013, all applicants for settlement will be required to pass the Life in
> the UK test and present an English language speaking and listening qualification at
> B1 level or above, unless they are exempt from the requirement to do so. Until
> October 2013, applicants for settlement, including partners of British citizens and
> ...


There are two key phrases here. The first, as AAIS pointed out, is the phrase, "... unless they are exempt from the requirement to do so." The second is, "... will be required to meet the *current* knowledge of life and language criteria ..."

These two phrases taken together imply that the intent is to simply change the criteria, not to change the exemptions. Yes, they can change these points. They're changing them now, after all. But the intent is to alter the criteria of language to a higher standard, not to change when those criteria do and do not apply.


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## AnAmericanInScotland (Feb 8, 2012)

JollyCynic said:


> From the SoI, bullet 6 from point 7:
> 
> 
> There are two key phrases here. The first, as AAIS pointed out, is the phrase, "... unless they are exempt from the requirement to do so." The second is, "... will be required to meet the *current* knowledge of life and language criteria ..."
> ...


If they decide to 'fine point' it, they can use the part of the 'current' section in conjunction with the disclaimer they head the sentence with-'Until October 2013...'I really don't think they will do that, but Nyclon is right to say we shouldn't assume until the definitives hit the UKBA site. New forms and Guidance Notes are probably being fine tuned for upload as we speak and I do not envy the IT team that has to handle that job, holy moly!

I have contact with other expats here in the UK and was warning them not to get their hopes up that we'd be so fortunate as to have any transitional arrangement much less the extremely generous one they gave us. 

I know I annoyed them with that, but I was really concerned we would not get transitional arrangements because the consultation didn't have any mention of transitional arrangements beyond the 'we're thinking about it and how we might do it' sort of thing. That note was in one place only in the consultation-every where else in the consultation the wording, phrasing, and language was such that I really started to think the transitional arrangements would either not exist, or would be on the slight-slim side.

So I was warning people to be prepared mentally. I love having several back-up plans, it's saved me a lot of grief over the years, lol!

Personally, from experience, I think the lack of repetition and clarification of the phrase 'unless exempt' is probably a bit of editing fatigue-seen it before in a large document like this. But we should prepare ourselves too, just in case


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## JollyCynic (May 1, 2012)

My point is that it is stated that it is the "knowledge of life and language criteria" which will no longer be "current". There is no indication that it is the exemptions which are being changed.

I acknowledged that this can change, but there is nothing in the SoI that indicates that it is their plan to introduce a change to the current exemptions, only the criteria of knowledge of life and language.


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## AnAmericanInScotland (Feb 8, 2012)

JollyCynic said:


> My point is that it is stated that it is the "knowledge of life and language criteria" which will no longer be "current". There is no indication that it is the exemptions which are being changed.
> 
> I acknowledged that this can change, but there is nothing in the SoI that indicates that it is their plan to introduce a change to the current exemptions, only the criteria of knowledge of life and language.


That's how I'm reading it, too. And to be honest, I'm not sure I'd pass if I had to take a hearing and speaking test-I'm a bit concerned the silliness of testing an English-as a first language-speaker would have me in gales of laughter, or at least fits of giggles.

It doesn't seem efficient on several levels to test English speakers. Between the administrative costs to the UKBA, the added burden of fees to the applicant, and the other logistics inherent to testing English speakers, it's inefficient, wasteful, and just seems silly when looked at logically.

And I really don't think the UKBA is interested in wasting money or being silly. The people at the UKBA that I've dealt with seem to be some very hard working people who genuinely are committed to a job-well-done/done right the first time mindset. 

So I don't think we're going to be tested if English is the mother tongue, I really don't.


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## JollyCynic (May 1, 2012)

I know it's really not related, but my West Sussex wife worked as a temporary receptionist for a water filtration company here in California whilst trying to find more permanent work in her field. One time she had to place a customer on hold and go look for somebody else to take the call because the customer was demanding to speak to somebody who spoke English.

Once in Nevada she was accused of having a German accent.

Certainly there's barely any hope of me being understood once we're moved across. I plan on hanging a white board around my neck for communication.


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## JollyCynic (May 1, 2012)

Reading the text from HC-194, Nyclon definitely has a point.

First, it is not definitive, because it only includes changes expected up through October 2012, so I assume they'll be introducing changes for October 2013 at a later time.

However, it adds an Appendix FM for Family Members after Appendix F, and describes that the language requirement may be *met* by being from one of the English speaking nations, or by testing at A1 (so this is just the pre-10/2013 rules), or by completing a recognized degree taught in English. You are *exempt* only by being 65 or older, having a relevant disability, or through exceptional circumstances.

So there's a very good chance that when the SoI says, "... all applicants for settlement will be required to pass the Life in the UK test and present an English language speaking and listening qualification at B1 level or above, unless they are *exempt* from the requirement to do so," it really means *all*.


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## AnAmericanInScotland (Feb 8, 2012)

JollyCynic said:


> Reading the text from HC-194, Nyclon definitely has a point.
> 
> First, it is not definitive, because it only includes changes expected up through October 2012, so I assume they'll be introducing changes for October 2013 at a later time.
> 
> ...


Nyclon is one of the smartest members on the board-knows the rules in his/her sleep, lol, and catches important nuances like this. Voice of reason, very helpful in times like these!

I will say, though, that when the 2012 part states '..may be met by being from one of the English speaking nations, *or*...' the presumption is that an exemption exist by virtue of being from one of the English speaking countries because the context the word 'may' should be taken as indicating the applicant 'can'/may meet the requirements by either being an English speaker OR by taking the test.

You know, when I finally sucked it up and made the application last year, I got hung up on that part too and actually did call WorldBridge (what a basic waste of $$, it was an expensive call!) and they laughed. 

No, really, they laughed, and rattled off a url to a page on the UKBA site with a list of the exempted, English speaking countries.

But we'll see how it goes, it may be the exemption is going to be tossed and we'll all have to go through the test. If I can find that page (I'm sure I bookmarked it) I'll EditToAdd.


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## AnAmericanInScotland (Feb 8, 2012)

Having trouble with ETA, so I'm posting in a new reply box. I found it:



> What is a majority English-speaking country?
> If you are a national of a majority English-speaking country, you meet the English language requirement automatically. You do not need to take a test.


UK Border Agency | New English language requirement for partners


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## JollyCynic (May 1, 2012)

AnAmericanInScotland said:


> I will say, though, that when the 2012 part states '..may be met by being from one of the English speaking nations, *or*...' the presumption is that an exemption exist by virtue of being from one of the English speaking countries because the context the word 'may' should be taken as indicating the applicant 'can'/may meet the requirements by either being an English speaker OR by taking the test.


The question isn't the difference between 'may/can' and 'do/will'. It's between what constitutes 'meeting' the requirement versus what makes you 'exempt' from the requirement. The existing rules say you may/can/do MEET the English requirement by being from one of these countries. It doesn't say you're exempt from meeting it, it rather says that you do meet it. The 'meet' list is separate from the 'exempt' list.

The SoI states that the new rules are that you will HAVE to take the test, unless you're 'exempt'. You're exempt if you're 65 or older, you're exempt if you have a related disability.

I'll try visually:

TO MEET CURRENT LANGUAGE REQUIREMENT:
-Be from one of the approved English speaking nations
-Pass English test at A1
-Have approved degree taught in English

TO MEET NEW LANGUAGE REQUIREMENT:
-Pass English test at B1

EXEMPTIONS FOR BOTH OLD AND NEW LANGUAGE REQUIREMENT:
-Be 65 or older
-Have relevant disability
-Other exceptional circumstances

Being from the US, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, etc., doesn't EXEMPT you, it allows you to MEET the requirement. The SoI says you have to pass at B1 unless you're EXEMPT.

As you stated, however, I suspect that they won't make native English speakers take the test ... but it is the way the SoI reads in hand with the definition in HC-194 about what currently meets the requirement and who is exempt from the requirement.

We probably won't see an HC for the October 2013 change for a year or more, though, so it's all just speculation.


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## AnAmericanInScotland (Feb 8, 2012)

JollyCynic said:


> The question isn't the difference between 'may/can' and 'do/will'. It's between what constitutes 'meeting' the requirement versus what makes you 'exempt' from the requirement. The existing rules say you may/can/do MEET the English requirement by being from one of these countries. It doesn't say you're exempt from meeting it, it rather says that you do meet it. The 'meet' list is separate from the 'exempt' list.
> 
> The SoI states that the new rules are that you will HAVE to take the test, unless you're 'exempt'. You're exempt if you're 65 or older, you're exempt if you have a related disability.
> 
> ...


I think the use of the word 'automatically' says it. Lol, is this really a case of being able to say in all correctness-'it's all semantics, really'? Checking the dictionary (hey, that Oxford is heavy, wow!), it appears yes, it is semantics:lol:

Hopefully there is a clarification here, the UKBA has posted an update to the announcement with side bar links to more :

UK Border Agency | Family migration changes announced - updated

ETA: here's something to think about too-when I did my application no-one came back and said 'oh hey, where's your English test?'. That said it all to me, really. Well, and the WB operator's giggles. Sigh.


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## JollyCynic (May 1, 2012)

AnAmericanInScotland said:


> Hopefully there is a clarification here, the UKBA has posted an update to the announcement with side bar links to more :


Yeah, that's where I found HC-194. It's nice to be able to seen the literal legal changes they're making. It's just too bad they're not including the October 2013 changes in it yet, so we have to guess.


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## AnAmericanInScotland (Feb 8, 2012)

JollyCynic said:


> Yeah, that's where I found HC-194. It's nice to be able to seen the literal legal changes they're making. It's just too bad they're not including the October 2013 changes in it yet, so we have to guess.


I think they've posted the new changes in Guidance Notes:

UK Border Agency | Statements of changes in Immigration Rules

Long days of reading ahead, there are a lot of downloads!


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## JollyCynic (May 1, 2012)

AnAmericanInScotland said:


> I think they've posted the new changes in Guidance Notes:
> 
> UK Border Agency | Statements of changes in Immigration Rules
> 
> Long days of reading ahead, there are a lot of downloads!


Sadly, only up through October 2012. Not October 2013 yet.

That's the part we're falling apart on. There are currently three ways to meet the language requirement. They're SAYING there's only one way as of October 2013, but we're not sure. HC-194 doesn't have changes past October 2012 in it.


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## AnAmericanInScotland (Feb 8, 2012)

JollyCynic said:


> Sadly, only up through October 2012. Not October 2013 yet.
> 
> That's the part we're falling apart on. There are currently three ways to meet the language requirement. They're SAYING there's only one way as of October 2013, but we're not sure. HC-194 doesn't have changes past October 2012 in it.


From the Statement of Changes, page 24 (available on side bar link in previous posted UKBA updated news link, above:



> English language requirement
> E-ECP.4.1. The applicant must provide specified evidence that they-
> (a) are a national of a majority English speaking country listed in paragraph
> GEN.1.5.;


Also, from the updated rules regarding spouses/civil partners, etc:



> __(ii) the applicant provides an original English language test certificate in speaking and listening from an English language test provider approved by the Secretary of State for these purposes, which clearly shows the applicant's name and the qualification obtained (which must meet or exceed level A1 of the Common European Framework of Reference) unless:
> 
> (a) the applicant is aged 65 or over at the time he makes his application; or
> 
> ...


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## JollyCynic (May 1, 2012)

AnAmericanInScotland said:


> From the Statement of Changes, page 24 (available on side bar link in previous posted UKBA updated news link, above:
> 
> 
> 
> Also, from the updated rules regarding spouses/civil partners, etc:


This is exactly the document that I've been quoting all day. You skipped the following line:
(b) have passed an English language test in speaking and listening at a 
minimum of level *A1* of the Common European Framework of Reference for 
Languages with a provider approved by the UK Border Agency; 

A1. This means that it's discussing pre-October 2013 rules. The point of everything we've been discussing since page two of this thread is the post-October 2013 rules.

I've stated several times, now, that HC-194, which you are quoting, only covers the changes up through October 2012. It does not include all the changes described in the soi-fam-mig.pdf document, which extends through October 2013. The UKBA News page that was released yesterday reiterates that there will still be changes to the Language requirement in October 2013, despite the changes that only extend through October 2012 as described in the HC-194 document you quoted.

All you need to do is search HC-194 for "B1". This new requirement is not described in HC-194, but is still referenced on the UKBA news page which links to HC-194. It's still coming.


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## AnAmericanInScotland (Feb 8, 2012)

I've got everything in the printer now. I'm going to spend the next two days, lol, going through everything to make the updates-binder with the 'old' rules on the left, binder with the SOI and SOC to the right, red pen for contrast as I make the changes.

Sigh. I used to have schedule hour blocks to do the same thing at my old job in the States. Close to the end of Census 2010 I was having to take a full day a week from being in the field with my teams to keep up, and then spend HOURS more emailing them a bullet point list of things they would have to do differently in the field the next day. 

And I chose to be on the Decennial Team-I could have stayed in my nice cosy peaceful office and retire quietly but noooo, I wanted to 'go out with a bang'  :rofl:


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## AnAmericanInScotland (Feb 8, 2012)

The more I read the SOC, the more I think the change we thought was going into effect in Oct 2013 has been changed to become effective in 2012-JollyCynic and Nyclon, what do you think?


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## JollyCynic (May 1, 2012)

I _think_ that the only October 2012 provisions deal with overstayers. Seriously, the whole English B1 thing appears to be a ghost issue. Maybe they've dropped it entirely and it won't show up again.


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## AnAmericanInScotland (Feb 8, 2012)

JollyCynic said:


> I _think_ that the only October 2012 provisions deal with overstayers. Seriously, the whole English B1 thing appears to be a ghost issue. Maybe they've dropped it entirely and it won't show up again.


I think the EB1 hike is going to apply to those who were under the EA1 requirement, but that 2012 bit is interesting. I'm going through it all but it's going to take at least two eight hour days to get it all clear, and that's if they don't publish anything more.

I skimmed through the Impact Assessment, now that made for interesting skimming.


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## WestCoastCanadianGirl (Mar 17, 2012)

I still think that the English Test is a small price to pay for the generosity that the Home Office has shown us in all of this... after all, they could have made July 9 retroactive to June 1st as was originally rumoured the announcement would be made, but not only have they not, they've gone above and beyond and given us very generous concessions.

**Hear that Home Office/UKBA? Someone out there is actually _grateful_ for what you have done!!**

I somehow doubt that they'll make native English speakers take the test, because not only would they continue to hear grumblings from the likes of us, the people having to administer the tests would probably join us over the sheer stupidity of it all (trust me on this... I work in the public sector and some of the pointless stuff we have to do just makes me think "WTF?!").


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## Gregarious (Mar 12, 2012)

AnAmericanInScotland said:


> Congratulations, Gregarious, I know you've been working on this for some time. It must be a tremendous relief[/QUOTE
> 
> @ AnAmericaninScotland, Thankx for your wishes, I was waiting for 4 months even my wife delivered a child in UK, I was not with her. After a hard pains, she went for C-Section.


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## Gregarious (Mar 12, 2012)

Gregarious said:


> AnAmericanInScotland said:
> 
> 
> > Congratulations, Gregarious, I know you've been working on this for some time. It must be a tremendous relief[/QUOTE
> ...


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## AnAmericanInScotland (Feb 8, 2012)

> @ AnAmericaninScotland, Thankx for your wishes, I was waiting for 4 months even my wife delivered a child in UK, I was not with her. After a hard pains, she went for C-Section.


OH OUCH OH!  been there-done that! Your poor wife, what a horrible thing to go through alone! (You do know, right, that even if she had tonnes of friends and relatives around her at the time, in her mind she will have gone through that alone because you were not there)

But that's in the past-congratulations on the new little one, best wishes for a long and happy life here in the UK!


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## Gregarious (Mar 12, 2012)

Thanks, nice of you.


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