# insecurity issue?



## kurant (Sep 21, 2008)

Ok, im not blonde, I look pretty mexican but I think all this insecurity issue is blown out of proportion, what do you guys think? has anyone really been a bad situtation?


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## RVGRINGO (May 16, 2007)

Never; and we've lived here since early 2001.


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## verdeva (Sep 18, 2008)

*Glad you asked this one...*

I sure nuff' hope that tomorrow I don't get mugged, robbed, pulled over by a cop and extorted for a bribe, have my car stolen.......

The bride and I have lived in Mexico for 2 1/2 years and nothing substantial has happened to us. We were stopped one time by the famous Transitos of Guadalajara's Periferico, but when unresponsive to suggestions of donations to the policemen's ball, we were told to move on. No mordita. 

We have had some casual theft, but most of that was "training" for us. One does not leave things of value where they can be taken by people who have little or nothing. The flip side of that is we've seen honesty and integrity by most Mexicans that would astound.

Personal security: I feel that we are physically safer here than most anywhere in the U.S. You will hear otherwise from others. We are not them.


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## pedro (May 15, 2007)

it's overwhelmingly overblown.


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## Rodrigo84 (Mar 5, 2008)

I think it depends where you live. I am in Mexico City and although many foreigners (I am Mexican) feel it is unsafe at first glance, we actually have better gun control than anywhere in the U.S. My cousin lived here for several years and only few times involving Mexico City (D.F.) police did he have any issues. Most of the insecurity that we hear about here is from the northern part of the country along the border.


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## RVGRINGO (May 16, 2007)

I agree with Rodrigo. The border areas are where most of the violence occurs and it is drug related. There are occasional outbreaks in other areas but innocent bystanders are seldom involved and the random violent crime, like drive by shootings, road rage or hate crimes are so rare here as to be negligible. Since most crime along the border happens at night, those crossing into Mexico by car, or returning to the USA, need not worry about it. Have there been burglaries or occasional robberies? Of course; but we don't live in fear of them and, in fact, we feel much, much safer than almost anywhere in the USA. As for Mexico City; it is a huge metropolis and does have areas that one should not visit. However, my wife and I have been out at night on foot and lived to tell about it. I must admit that two other couples who were with us had heard 'the stories' and they dropped out and returned to the hotel without supper. We found ourselves in a wonderful Cuban supper club where we were instantly 'adopted' and enjoyed a great meal and a few dances. Later, we walked the couple of miles back to the hotel without incident, mostly along Av. Reforma.


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## Rodrigo84 (Mar 5, 2008)

RVGRINGO said:


> I agree with Rodrigo. The border areas are where most of the violence occurs and it is drug related. There are occasional outbreaks in other areas but innocent bystanders are seldom involved and the random violent crime, like drive by shootings, road rage or hate crimes are so rare here as to be negligible. Since most crime along the border happens at night, those crossing into Mexico by car, or returning to the USA, need not worry about it. Have there been burglaries or occasional robberies? Of course; but we don't live in fear of them and, in fact, we feel much, much safer than almost anywhere in the USA. As for Mexico City; it is a huge metropolis and does have areas that one should not visit. However, my wife and I have been out at night on foot and lived to tell about it. I must admit that two other couples who were with us had heard 'the stories' and they dropped out and returned to the hotel without supper. We found ourselves in a wonderful Cuban supper club where we were instantly 'adopted' and enjoyed a great meal and a few dances. Later, we walked the couple of miles back to the hotel without incident, mostly along Av. Reforma.


Well said.

With Mexico City, most of the areas that should be avoided don't have anything worth seeing anyway. There are areas, particularly, Neza, southeast of the airport, that I wouldn't go, even as a Mexican and many places east of downtown, but along Av. Reforma, Polanco, etc., there is not much to fear. Even pickpockets, which used to be a heavy problem in the 80s and earlier, are not the issue they used to be. As long as the black market economy is allowed to continue, there is less a need to reside on crime that would affect foreigners. I live in the Cuajimalpa area west of downtown just by the slopes of the western mountains and although we don't see as many foreigners at say the local markets here, my American cousin never felt the least bit intimidated nor out of place here. I actually found that most foreigners enjoyed living in Mexico City as its livestyle was a bit slower and more eased back than what they were used to in their home countries.


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## drblanke (Oct 2, 2008)

Mexico City is a big city, no worse than any other big city in the world. You can't walk around like it is Disney Land (though you might get away with it on the Reforma). Just use some common sense and heed the recommendations of the State Department. Try to keep low key, blend in. You don't have to look Mexican or speak Spanish, but wearing a Rolex or tons of jewerly in a developing country isn't a good idea. You also don't have to just stick to the tourist sites (in fact you might have a better time avoiding them), but only go to places where there are lots of people. Bus stations, taco stands, all OK. The more eyeballs that are on you, the safer you are in my experience.


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## PieGrande (Nov 16, 2008)

To my surprise, I found I have a thing called 'street-wise'. As an old country boy, I did not expect this. I can see the thugs coming, and I am simply not there when they are. It's like an exciting chess game to wend my way through the thugs.

I evaluate as I walk, who is dangerous and who isn't. Upon 5 occasions, there was high probability they were after my assets. Four were during the 1998 crime wave in Mexico City and none in Mexico City since then; one involved a visible .45 ACP. They failed. Since 1998, and the gray uniforms cleaned up the streets, the streets are cool again. B-O-R-I-N-G!

The last was two or three years ago in Tepeaca, east of Puebla. They sent a kid to tell me my tire was flat, but I had scoped my tires walking down the street. It kind of made me angry, but I decided I didn't want to kill anyone that day, I was there to buy a washing machine, so I told him to engage in impossible acts and drove off.

Mexican street muggers are dumber than rocks. They succeed only because most Mexicans walk around in a daze, with no thought of being robbed.

Stay away from areas with high numbers of red lights, and druggies, and your chances of being robbed drop dramatically. Even at night, as some posters have said.


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## bigmutt (Aug 5, 2008)

PieGrande said:


> Mexican street muggers are dumber than rocks. They succeed only because most Mexicans walk around in a daze, with no thought of being robbed.


It's beginning to dawn on me that this forum is either sponsored by the Mexican Tourism Bureau or at least most of the posters here have bought into their promotions hook-line-and-sinker. 
Are you people posting your security advice from what you'd *like* to be true? Or maybe from your ****** naievity when in foreign lands? Are all these comments from just your own personal experience? If so, living here how long? and are you taking your experiences mostly from living in your little foreigner enclaves? 
If so, you should make it clear that those viewpoints reflect a very narrow set of experiences. There are newcommers here who are trying to get an honest idea of what life is like here, not some idylic snowjob from people heavily invested in the choice they made to settle here. 
We all want to believe we made the right choice when we dropped our lives in whatever first-world countries in order to come here, buy property, and live the "retire-in-Mexico" dream that's so heavily promoted by the likes of InternationalLiving outfit that publishes Inside Mexico.
How many of you check the official, published crime statistics in your area or colonia or city? (and then at least double it, because MANY crimes here go unreported.)
How many of you have had family members kidnapped for ransom? Do you talk to your Mexican neighbors to see what THEIR experience is with violent and non-violent crime? 
Do you really feel "safe" because mexico has more stringent gun laws than the U.S.?? That should make you feel LESS safe, because it means that here only the criminals have guns, and they know it! 

Sorry, but my eight years living in one of the safest areas of Mexico City doesn't qualify me to give security advice based mostly on my own experience, and it shouldn't qualify most of the rest of you to declare mexico as "safe, as long as you take a few common-sense precautions." 
No, Mexico City is NOT just like any other big city in the world when it comes to crime & security: that is totally naive and ignorant of facts & statistics. Here, almost all law enforcement is corrupt (incl. judicial system) and more importantly: citizen passerbys will rarely get involved when they see a crime in progress. Even as a witness. Unlike most first-world countries.
The apprehension rate of criminals here is so abysmal when compared to U.S. rates that you can say without a doubt that "crime pays" here. 
How many of you have read these comparisons? How many of you read the massive report produced by Giuliani & Associates when they came here to examine Mexico City's crime problem for a fee of over a million dollars?

Please, give the folks who're depending on you for guidance something besides anecdotal evidence. Unlike the InternationalLiving and MexicoConnect and other promoters of real-estate here, you folks on this forum have no financial gain from presenting too rosy a picture. 

Anyone who want actual facts, statistics and comparisons, you're welcome to contact me directly.

Rick Schmidt


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## RVGRINGO (May 16, 2007)

Not everyone lives in Mexico City, though we visited there once. We also visit other cities in Mexico from time to time (Sayula, last week) and have always enjoyed ourselves and have never felt threatened. We've also lived here, at Lake Chapala, for eight years and we are aware that there is some crime, but it is seldom violent. Everyone will have their own experience based on where they live and how they interact with their environment. As everywhere, those who flash money or wear expensive clothing and jewelry will be targeted by opportunistic bad guys. Speaking some Spanish and observing the usual pleasantries also helps.


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## PieGrande (Nov 16, 2008)

*Yes?*

Bigmutt, because your posting started with a quote from my posting, it is logical to assume your posting was directed at me. If this is wrong, feel free to correct my misunderstanding and accept my apology for the misunderstanding.

As far as that specific quote is concerned, I stand by it. I am amazed how much you claim to know about security in Mexico, though you admitted you were not qualified to give security advice. I not only can give personal security advice but have done so, and do not feel I need your approval. But, in that major crime wave in the late 90's, I was spending months at a time in the part of Mexico City which had the highest reported crime rate, whatever that is worth. I listened; I talked to people who had been robbed; I observed; I learned. And, I used the metro and walked the streets far away from other foreigners.

My opinion of the Mexicans as walking around in a daze is based on talking to those family members and friends who were robbed in Mexico City back in the late 90s. It was always a total surprise to them when they got robbed. Street wise people know that robberies do not happen with no advance visual clues for those who know what to look for. Perhaps one cannot always evade them, but it should never be a complete surprise.

Family members who were robbed in that crime wave had no clue before it happened, yet at least 4 times I saw it coming, including one event in which a large caliber pistol was visible. (I saw that pistol only because two men were doing things that were 'red flags' and got my attention.) I was not walking around in a daze, and chose not to be where they thought I would be.

You do bring up a traditional political issue -- and it is political -- that is, whether crime victims have some opportunity to avoid places and circumstances which tend to be linked with crime. Most people in Mexico City that I know who were robbed opt for the working premise that robberies are sort of an act of God and the Devil, that one can do nothing to protect themselves. I think it is implicit in your posting that you tend to agree with them. Again, please correct me if I am wrong.

If muggers want you badly enough, they can get you. But, in most cases, not highly trained in crime by alert people, they really aren't that clever, and crooks by definition tend to be lazy or they would not be crooks. If you disrupt their plan, at least in Mexico City, most of the time they will not chase you down the street. If they did, I would have been robbed four times instead of none, and I have no illusions about that fact. They "set you up" and when it doesn't work, in most cases, they let it go.

It is the "set up" that one can see with training and common sense.

As far as kidnapping where is your data? This forum is for expats, yet few expats get kidnapped. In the rare case, it is a very affluent international executive, not retired expats of modest income, as most of us are. Professional kidnappers are usually trying for hundreds of thousands of dollars, not a couple thousand dollars.

Polanco, where the rich internationals live, is known to the people in Mexico City as one of the most dangerous places; the crooks go there in hopes of bringing in the sheaves, heh, heh. When I went there, the streets were empty of foot traffic, which is a sign of high crime rates. Locals know not to visit there without a compelling reason.

There is a crime called express kidnapping, which means to take a person who is believed to have a bank card, at knife point or gun point, to an ATM and forcing them to withdraw the maximum. In some cases, they hold them till midnight and hit the machine for another day, then let them go. I personally know of no one who has experienced this. I read it in the newspapers. It is not that common. The best way to avoid this is to use the machines in a large store like Wal-mart, as opposed to an obvious ATM room on the street where you are visibly in possession of a bank card, and crooks can nail you the next time you go there.

Conventional wisdom says to always use a different route when walking the streets. After some study, I realized this may not be universally correct. When one always walks the same route, anything out of the ordinary is much more visible. That is why I saw that pistol, two blocks from my home.

Clothing is a major indicator of social class in Mexico. If you are an international executive, you have problems, because you are forced to dress like it. I am not, and I am somewhat shameless. I learned this first hand in the mid-90's. I flew in for my usual month visit, and went out for bread in the morning, wearing my wash-n-wear office trousers. Men were chasing me down the streets demanding money. I went home and put on a pair of work jeans with paint spots on them, and no one paid me any more attention. Now, I always wear work jeans in the street.


Since you were honest with us, I am also going to be honest. I found your statements that we work for the tourist bureau, that we are naive, that we live in a safe enclave, simply because we didn't say what you thought we should say, to be very offensive.

I cannot speak for the others here, but I now spend most of my time in rural Mexico, in what I call The Third World part. I have neighbors who live in houses made of sticks. My wife's parents were both murdered in the 40's. There are at least two men in this village who murdered someone in their younger years and spent not a minute in jail. Things are changed now, and that simply does not happen any more.

Our house is rather secure. Neighbors have seen strangers come on our property, walk around the house, then go away again once they saw it is secure. Young neighbors had their house emptied in broad daylight, last winter. She went out and simply snapped the door shut, without using the key to turn the deadbolt. They poked something in the frame and popped the snap lock. No one noticed them loading up the TV and washing machine and driving off.

Last winter, there was a minor crime wave by two young women who attacked old men in their homes, by simply knocking on the door and jumping on them when the door is opened. I assumed I had concentric circles on my chest, because I am the only known North American in several thousand square miles, and it has been a while since I was young. I was a bit tense, until my best friend, who was county medical examiner for 22 years, told me I would not be in trouble if someone tried to invade my house and I injured them. Once I learned that, I slept well.

Every few years, out here, there is a crime wave which goes on for some period of time,then one day the state police come in and the crooks all die in the gunfight, heh, heh.

You want danger, go to McAllen/Reynosa, which is where I live when I am not in Mexico. Reynosa is in a state of military siege. I just came through there 11/22/2008, two days ago. And, of course, Reynosa is nothing compared to Cd. Juarez or Nuevo Laredo. I forget how Tijuana is these days but I imagine it is not Nirvana.


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## synthia (Apr 18, 2007)

Some of the problems with security in any country that isn't your home, or even a different part of your own country, is that you really don't know what suspicious behavior is. OK, if someone is waving a gun around, that's bad, but other clues are harder. In Penang, Malaysia, an aural cue is gunning the engine of a low-power motorbike. That means you should get off the sidewalk, or at least up against the wall, because a set of snatch thieves have spotted a vulnerable bag and are going for it. Now, in the US, an engine like that is more a cue that you should get off the street before you get run down.


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## PieGrande (Nov 16, 2008)

*Great Point*

That is a great point. After some years, a month a year, in DF, I had learned the clues, and to my surprise had become what I believe is called street wise. I am off the farm and here I am successfully dodging crime in one of the largest cities in the world. 

Yet, what I learned might be without value in New York City or Houston, or even Guadalajara, not to mention other countries. I simply haven't spent that much time in any other large city.

I am sending you a PM if I can make it work.


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## Rodrigo84 (Mar 5, 2008)

When my cousin came to Mexico City he knew there were going to be dangers and often my brothers and I went with him when he needed to go somewhere downtown on the weekend, even to Polanco, which is nice, but yes, thieves and bad elements come in all shapes and sizes there. By the week he dressed in a business suit, but when he'd go with us he'd be in a t-shirt and blue jeans, just to fit in. He spoke fluent Spanish and had an accent, so it helped him.

However, I had other American friends and he had his friends who wound up getting into trouble and were in extreme denial about what had occurred, whether it was getting robbed, even by cops for bribes, and felt it just couldn't happen. It's no different than crime in any other city, even in the U.S.

Keep in mind here, we have better gun control in Mexico City than in the U.S. Most Americans I meet seem to think the contrary with no evidence to back that up. It's very hard to come by a gun here.


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## Chali Chan (Sep 12, 2010)

bigmutt said:


> It's beginning to dawn on me that this forum is either sponsored by the Mexican Tourism Bureau or at least most of the posters here have bought into their promotions hook-line-and-sinker.
> Are you people posting your security advice from what you'd *like* to be true? Or maybe from your ****** naievity when in foreign lands? Are all these comments from just your own personal experience? If so, living here how long? and are you taking your experiences mostly from living in your little foreigner enclaves?
> If so, you should make it clear that those viewpoints reflect a very narrow set of experiences. There are newcommers here who are trying to get an honest idea of what life is like here, not some idylic snowjob from people heavily invested in the choice they made to settle here.
> We all want to believe we made the right choice when we dropped our lives in whatever first-world countries in order to come here, buy property, and live the "retire-in-Mexico" dream that's so heavily promoted by the likes of InternationalLiving outfit that publishes Inside Mexico.
> ...


I see a major problem with this board. I have been in Media for over ten years in Mexico, know many people in the consulates and Embassy and members of White House families. I know some of the highest investigators for the PGRDF that are involved in serious situations I have had personal witness to. I know just myself about three dozen minimum weekly social friends that have had serious crimes happen to them and most of them had left Mexico. Many of them are among over 200 people in just one pacific southern coastal town who were swindled out of their homes in the past twenty years by the SAME people. Over 100 million in damages.

Where did these posts go warning our fellow group members. They were deleted.


I am surprised the previous post that I am responding to has not been deleted, as I have seen much more serious posts deleted.

I do not see an accurate representation to what is going on in Mexico and the biggest fallacy that crime is limited to the northern frontier when some of the most dangerous states are along the southern border.
Contact you Department of State personally or your consulate or Embassy. Their with a little patience you can get an honest answer to questions.


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## chicois8 (Aug 8, 2009)

Sr. Chan, You are responding to a post from November 2008...


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## American_Woman (Mar 31, 2010)

Well, has the crime gotten better or worse since 2008? Valid question, I believe.


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## Chali Chan (Sep 12, 2010)

Yes I see, head in clouds but feet on ground.
Well now its up to date.... It was first and TOP thead, I was wrong to assume threads were listed in relevance to date. My bad??

As far as AW's answer goes..... Hs it gotten worse????

75% of all kidnappings are either done by or have previous knowledge by the police. Almost 95% of all Mexican Nationals do not pay taxes. 
9 out of ten police are corrupt. Mexico is now the number 1 kidnapping country in the world. Mexico is the number one or tied for number one as the most dangerous place for media/journalists in the world. The penalty for express kidnapping can now be as many as 70 years...... According to the SSP it is almost impossible to file charges nationwide in any police department against organized crime. I think nothing has changed, same old same old.

These are statistics and the rates have increased for each one significantly for the past few years. The office for the president and security of Mexico admits that it has lost total control of specific parts of the country.
You can verify this with the Department of State in Washington D.C.

I hope I don't get banned for quoting statistics.


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## tepetapan (Sep 30, 2010)

I feel as safe or safer, living in Mexico, than anywhere I have lived in the USA. To me it is a question of daily stress. Crossing back into the US you can feel and almost hear the stress level all around you. Back in Mexico, not the boarder area but Mexico, stress is not a factor.
Those writing about Mexico city, it is one of the largest cities in the WORLD. Crime, stress, well yeah


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