# Expat kids in Spanish schools - worrying new report



## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

From today's Iberosphere: 


> ‘The education of foreign students in the province of Alicante,’ a report by the University of Alicante for Asti-Alicante, an educational charity, is an extensive piece of research that paints to a very sorry picture of the experiences of some British students in Spanish state schools.
> 
> The report found that British students often segregate themselves, become involved in gangs and refuse to subscribe to the Spanish system. Eventually they drop out, choosing absenteeism as an option in their later secondary years. The problems, the researchers noted, were most acute in schools with high proportions of English students with disruptive behaviour causing significant difficulties for themselves and those around them.
> 
> According to the researchers: “British students have the greatest difficulty integrating, bringing with them their own multicultural model which can be summarised by the phrase ‘each to his own and each to his own God’ and excludes the possibility of interacting with other ethnicities and cultures, including the Spanish.”


Read the whole article:
Expat kids in Spanish schools: The best days of their lives? | Iberosphere | Spain News and Portugal News - Information and Analysis

Does anyone recognise this scenario? Is it just Alicante?


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Alcalaina said:


> From today's Iberosphere:
> 
> 
> Read the whole article:
> ...



YES!! my daughter went to two state schools. The first one there was a gang of british kids who bullied my daughter cos they thought she was "snobby", the Spanish kids wouldnt speak to her cos she was British. I have to say that the british kids were a bit of a rabble, unruly and seemed to be there more because they had to, rather than any sense of wanting or needing to be educated. They did hang around in a pack who ignored the Spanish and there was a distinct "them and us" atmosphere. I guess the answer would have been to split them up, but I think that was tried and didnt work

At the second school (ESO), my daughter was one of only a few british kids and that made all the difference - no gang of Brits!!!

At the international school, there were so many nationalities, that it wasnt such a problem, altho a few of the British boys didnt have a good word to say about any of the other nationalities - some Brits do seem to think that they're better than anyone else dont they!!!

Jo xxx


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## Solwriter (Jan 10, 2012)

I do not have children in school here, so what I say is based upon friends who do.
In our region, state schools will have a minority of British pupils, so the idea of them all ganging together doesn't really apply. 
What I will say is that, just because parents think their children speak Spanish well (usually because they speak it better than them), this isn't necessarily so. And children struggling with the local language will often feel hopeless and marginalized from full interaction with their peers.
Not a happy or useful experience and one where absenteeism, disruptive behaviour, etc are bound to happen.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

yes - I'm afraid I do!!

many many English kids make no attempt to 'integrate' - although they must find it hard when they can't discuss the normal things kids/teens discuss like 'what was on TV last night' & pop music, simply because they have no access to Spanish tele or music at home

I know many teens who have been in Spain longer than we have (so since at least primary & maybe infant school) who still struggle to really speak Spanish - one girl I know might get pretty decent grades, but she never reads aloud in class because no-one can understand her pronunciation - this after 5-6years in the spanish system

others when they speak will say 'yo vivir' or similar - for some reason they can't conjugate their verbs when speaking 

my elder daughter has in the past been bullied by both English & Spanish kids at different times - the English cos she was hanging around with the Spanish kids & at first a few Spanish kids because they didn't quite know what to make of her - but both my girls are more Spanish than English now & are more accepted by they Spanish kids than the English

to be fair though, at both the primary & secondary schools these problems are from a minority, rather than a majority - but a surprising number (or perhaps not surprising in the current climate) of British teens don't want to stay in Spain - they are only here because their parents dragged them here - even those who are doing well & getting really good grades intend to go back to the UK for college or uni


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## JulyB (Jul 18, 2011)

> although they must find it hard when they can't discuss the normal things kids/teens discuss like 'what was on TV last night' & pop music, simply because they have no access to Spanish tele or music at home


This seems particularly unfair. Having taught teens English in secondary school here, it took me about a week to discover the importance of having some knowledge of 'El Barco', 'Angel o Demonio' and the life and works of _artists_ such as Selena Gomez. I don't see why parents can't help to provide Spanish media for their kids and encourage them to fit in, unless they actually want them to be really different - which at that age is just deadly.

Also - if that girl's pronunciation is so awful - why has no-one found her a speech therapist? That seems to be the responsible thing to do.

But also there's just such a difference between the way that kids of that age speak and the kind of Spanish you're taught in books. I wouldn't know where to start trying to speak 'teen Spanish'.

This, from the report above:


> “The students seemed to have very little or no concept about the culture and social life of the Spanish. Their comments seemed to reflect the attitude of their parents.”


Seems to sum it up for me. The parents don't want their children to integrate and be at all different from how Mum and Dad are, but it's the teachers' fault when the kids end up miserable and disenfranchised.


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## MaidenScotland (Jun 6, 2009)

My grandchildren go to school in the Alicante area.. the boys have one British friend the rest are Spanish.. btw my youngest grandson was bullied and told to go home.
My granddaughter only has Spanish friends.. but she does go to an English speaking pony club with the majority being Brits.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

In Spain as in the UK, children will reflect their home experiences.
I'm not surprised that British students fare so poorly in Spanish schools.
Having seen some of the Brits here and how they behave I wouldn't expect anything other than what that report states.
The majority of Brits here are of course decent, respectable people. But any teacher knows that you don't need that many bad apples to sour the whole barrel.
I've seen and been told of appalling public behaviour by resident Brits...


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

JulyB said:


> This seems particularly unfair. Having taught teens English in secondary school here, it took me about a week to discover the importance of having some knowledge of 'El Barco', 'Angel o Demonio' and the life and works of _artists_ such as Selena Gomez. I don't see why parents can't help to provide Spanish media for their kids and encourage them to fit in, unless they actually want them to be really different - which at that age is just deadly.


have a look at a lot of the posts here & on other forums & a very early question is often -_ can I get English tele?_ - so very very many English families never watch spanish tele - they live in a little 'brit bubble' as my daughter calls it 


JulyB said:


> Also - if that girl's pronunciation is so awful - why has no-one found her a speech therapist? That seems to be the responsible thing to do..


she doesn't need a speech therapist - she just has no contact with spoken Spanish outside school, only mixes with English kids IN school, so her_ Spanish _ pronunciation is bad - she's fine in English

at her primary school she was given lots of help - it's a brilliant school for helping 'foreign' kids get up to speed with both Spanish & Valenciano - but there has to come a point when that stops, surely?


JulyB said:


> But also there's just such a difference between the way that kids of that age speak and the kind of Spanish you're taught in books. I wouldn't know where to start trying to speak 'teen Spanish'.


very true - teen or 'street' spanish is very different to the textbook stuff


JulyB said:


> This, from the report above:
> 
> Seems to sum it up for me. The parents don't want their children to integrate and be at all different from how Mum and Dad are, but it's the teachers' fault when the kids end up miserable and disenfranchised.


I blame the parents 

that might sound harsh - but if YOU don't make an effort to mix, learn the language etc., as so many don't - then to me it's obvious that your kids won't either

I know quite a lot of parents who after 5/6/7 or even more years in Spain can barely string a sentence together - they might think they are speaking Spanish - & worse, think that their kids are fluent - simply because they make themselves understood - but they still pay people like me (I don't do it any more - too much hassle) to translate for them at school, the doctors & so on


a funny story

my elder dd is going on a German exchange later in the year, so we had to go to the school for a meeting

now, I haven't had cause to go to the school very often, and hadn't met the German teacher, or the deputy head before

the deputy head was sitting next to me - at the beginning of the meeting the teacher said that she'd speak in Spanish because she understood that some of the parents don't speak Valenciano (the school's official language), but that if any kids there had parents who don't speak Spanish could they please speak up, so that she'd know to wait to let them translate

my dd is the only non-spanish kid going on the trip, so it was clearly aimed at me ....


the deputy head turned to my dd & said - 'introduce your mum' - my dd said 'don't be daft- of course my mum speaks Spanish' 

sad, don't you think, that they didn't expect me to?

after the meeting the teachers were all over me, wanting a chat about my 'wonderful spanish daughter' & said that it was fantastic that I had learned spanish - but that they should have realised simply because both my girls are so very 'spanish'

I'm not saying that my kids are better in any way than the other kids - or that I'm a better mum - but we made a decsion very early on that if they were to be educated in Spanish in Spain - then they needed to LIVE in as Spanish an environment as possible

that's not to say that we never watch tele in English, and of course we speak English to each other at home - but if they have Spanish friends home, we _all_ speak Spanish


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

I guess we must have been VERY lucky then.

We have 3 children - eldest is now 15 and twins who will be 13 next month. We all came to Spain 5 years ago with just my wife speaking the language.

They went to a state primary school where there were no (zero) other brits - they did brilliantly. There was never any bullying, just a little trouble with a couple of Moroccans but they also caused problems for the other children too.

The two boys are now in ESO, with our daughter being in final year of primary (she had to repeat this year due to her dyslexia).

All three children only watch Spanish TV and movies. All three go out at weekends, till about 10pm, with their (Spanish) friends - something that they simply couldn't have done in UK.

All three now Speak Spanish and Valencian (and English of course) so I think we have indeed been VERY lucky.:clap2::clap2:


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## 90199 (Mar 21, 2010)

It is wonderful here, there aren't any children from the United Kingdom and only the goat population have kids :tongue1:


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

As you know of my interest in educational issues you can imagine how interested I was in this article.
In my time here I've only known of one British child in the Spanish education system. He came half way through primary. He had a few problems and left at the first opportunity aged 16, never getting his school certificate. There just aren't large groups of Brits in state schools here even though there are a lot of us around. Maybe most have partners that are Spanish and the children are born here, like me?
Here the "problem" is more likely to be with Latin children ganging together or even Moroccan. But, although there certainly are troublsome groups, there are plenty of children of all nationalities who do well at school and who are intergrated in school society.

Apart from that I just wanted to say that this advice given at the end of the article is spot on.

Some general tips:
• It’s harder for teens – if you are considering moving a teenager into a Spanish school without any knowledge of the language you must all, as a family, be very committed and determined
• Your attitude is vital – be positive yourself and open-minded and chances are your child will be too
• Give time and support to your child – this goes for any parent and pupil across any culture and in any country
• Talk about it with your child well in advance and make the move a shared one – if they really don’t want to go you have to ask yourself if it’s worth it – a very reluctant participant can ruin it for everyone
• Don’t leave it too late – a mid-year move is more distressing and unsettling than a September change over
• The earlier the better – if you are considering a move, the younger your child the better
• Learn Spanish yourself – not only are you setting a good example but it will help you to understand what is happening at school
• Get lessons – if you can, pay for Spanish lessons for your child before moving out
• Be proactive – if you don’t know, go and ask and if you can’t speak Spanish take a translator with you

Perhaps this should be in the sticky, in the bit about education.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Alcalaina said:


> From today's Iberosphere:
> 
> 
> Read the whole article:
> ...


That seems to be pretty standard for those families who want to be foreigners just living in Spain (here for the beer?) rather than families who have immigrated and integrated.

Contrast this with the attitudes of Spanish parents who see how important their children's education is and encouraging them to take extra classes to make up their grades to as good as possible. The best part is the kids enjoy it.


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## djfwells (Sep 28, 2009)

I would imagine that it would depend on the number of Expat children in the school / class, which of course will vary greatly from school to school and town to town. 
My daughter is in a class with 1 other British child plus two Half Brit / Half Spanish, and her best friend is Spanish. 
I would imagine than 15 Miles down the road and closer to the coast, in an area more popular with Expats, that the report would ring true. However Alicante, like most other Provinces, covers a large and diverse area and it would be unfair to generalise.


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## therustynail (Feb 13, 2012)

Some British families who move to Spain do not appreciate the language barriers that exist. They expect their children (of any age) to pick up the language. A British teenager moving to Spain will not learn enough of the language to successfully integrate into high school. You also need to remember that some high schools teach core subjects in the regional dialect e.g. Valenciano which is a different language altogether. Its a tall order to expect a teenager (with attitude) to learn both language. The reality is that they will become disruptive and drop out of school. The authorities wont care much. I have also been told that some teachers treat expat teenagers different. Well I suppose they would given the language barriers.


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## Lawrence brown (May 24, 2009)

This is one of the things I am most worried about.
My little girl is 5 and doing really well at school, she is reading at a level way above her years, And I really do not want to spoil it. I like most parents, am concerned about her future.
I am constantly being told that she is the right age to move, I am not so sure.
However she is the one who is most keen to move to the "new house" 
On the other hand just like Spain, in some of the schools around here, the British are in a minority. and I wonder about her future when she moves up.
I am not sure if she will catch up, or simply be left behind.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

I found that international schools were the best option (approved by NABSS). My children did so well in theirs. They learnt Spanish, they had many Spanish friends, as well as other nationalities. Gone are the days when international schools were the British domain to keep their children separate. Worryingly, since we arrived back in the UK,my daughter has been attending the local high school. I went to her first parents evening there a few weeks ago and was told that because she was so far ahead and had done the work already they were using her to help her class mates, the teachers felt this was the best way of getting her back in line with her peers and not lose interest!!! WTF!!!!

Jo xxx


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## therustynail (Feb 13, 2012)

Lawrence brown said:


> This is one of the things I am most worried about.
> My little girl is 5 and doing really well at school, she is reading at a level way above her years, And I really do not want to spoil it. I like most parents, am concerned about her future.
> I am constantly being told that she is the right age to move, I am not so sure.
> However she is the one who is most keen to move to the "new house"
> ...


We took our twin daughters to Spain when they were 5 years old. They were fully conversational in spanish after just 3 months. We stayed for 5 years but had to come back due to the economic climate. We have great memories with the kids at the beach, pool - cheap days out. However those 5 years were financially painful. We were not looking forward to high school. Although they were fluent in Spanish they were not fluent in the regional dialect. In fact they hated it. If we had the money we would have sent them to one of the international schools...but it never came to that. Im glad we are back in the uk.


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## Casslar (Feb 16, 2012)

I think any school that has an abrupt influx of an immigrant population and does not receive sufficient extra resources for language tuition and integration, is going to have a problem on their hands. I have seen this happen in the UK and in Spain and it's not the school's fault - they like everyone else are trying to do more with less and less funding these days... 

In our daughter's classes they are each the only English child, part of the reason we chose the school, and 6 months in they were functionally bilingual, the eldest returning to similar grades for maths etc, she had had in English school. Other kids we know who went to schools with large English populations simply didn't have the chance to learn by true and total immersion, because they inevitably hang out together and speak English to each other. Schools can tackle this in lessons to an extent by seating, but that depends on how many English speakers there are as well.

Another factor is some people seem very blase about how fast their kids will assimilate the language, and not bothered about them falling behind. Ours spent 6 months catching up, at age 10/11... that was hard, and she is a bright girl who had a fantastic teacher who helped us to help her bridge the gap and catch up to the level she was capable of. People who sling teenagers straight into a school they themselves cannot communicate effectively with, how on earth do they expect them to cope? 

With Spain's current youth unemployment rate the future for British kids who are not functionally literate in either language is absolutely terrifying...


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## martina lee (May 25, 2016)

were abouts in spain are you placed hunn


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