# The cost of moving to Spain



## jojo

One thing thats hardly ever even touched upon is the cost of this wonderful adventure - yes, the financial cost. But it really has to be addressed cos its real and trust me, to unravel it and return to the UK is equally as expensive (I know these things LOL)

You have the removal costs, the initial deposits and rental costs, the flights, the paperwork costs, buying a car??? insuring it??? incidental furnishings etc. For an average family I doubt theres much change from £3000 (excluding buying a car). Then you need a good buffer "in case", especially if you havent got an income when you arrive.

If it doesnt work out, you then have to reverse the process and do that cost all over again!!!!

If you didnt manage to earn any money during this adventure, then you also have to take into account enough money to live on for the duration, rent, utilities, food, treats, school books............ That is possibly around 1500€ + a month??!!

So, you move to Spain, you stay for 6 months and then return to the UK cos it didnt work out - The total cost of that wonderful adventure?????? You do the sums, but I would say that for a family of four to move properly, my figures are on the frugal side!!

Jo xxx


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## Pesky Wesky

Yes, for a family to come over and just see - well, they've got to be a family with some financial back up.

Then, not trying to introduce thread drift here Jo , there's the emotional cost which as you well know, can be heavy even when things are going pretty well, what with the language, the paperwork and just not UNDERSTANDING what's going on around you. Then put into that a baby who can't stand the heat, a child coping with school or an angry teenager...

:hurt:


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## brocher

jojo said:


> One thing thats hardly ever even touched upon is the cost of this wonderful adventure - yes, the financial cost. But it really has to be addressed cos its real and trust me, to unravel it and return to the UK is equally as expensive (I know these things LOL)
> 
> You have the removal costs, flights, the initial deposits and rental costs, the flights, the paperwork costs, buying a car??? insuring it??? incidental furnishings etc. For an average family I doubt theres much change from £3000 (excluding buying a car). Then you need a good buffer "in case", especially if you havent got an income when you arrive.
> 
> If it doesnt work out, you then have to reverse the process and do that cost all over again!!!!
> 
> If you didnt manage to earn any money during this adventure, then you also have to take into account enough money to live on for the duration, rent, utilities, food, treats, school books............ That is possibly around 1500€ + a month??!!
> 
> So, you move to Spain, you stay for 6 months and then return to the UK cos it didnt work out - The total cost of that wonderful adventure?????? You do the sums, but I would say that for a family of four to move properly, my figures are on the frugal side!!
> 
> Jo xxx


A very valid point, Jo, and one that should be high in anyone's thougts unless they have a great deal of savings behind them. 

I would agree, argue almost , that your figures are way on the conservative side.

You have reminded me of the near panic we were in as my dd, unexpectedly, decided to move to Spain this time last year.

Now, we are tight fisted Scots  and from my point of view, was already weary with the costs of students continually moving around. As it was not necessarily a "for life" move, I was determined that it should be done as cheaply as possible. I think we succeeded in keeping costs as low as possible, although transporting goods and multiple flights from Scotland do pretty much double the costs that would apply from England.

1. Initial visit, about 4 days, to check that the offered employment seemed in order, scout out the area and look at a few flats, get a feel for rental prices, etc - flights, food hotels, etc probably cost £500. Others will need several research trips looking at areas to live and trying to find employment so costs could be much higher.

2. Transport belongings to Spain. Minimum charge for shipping from Scotland was £300 and for that you could take 3 cubic meters of belongings. I worked out that BA allow passengers to carry 10 extra suitcases each, costing then £30 each. 10 suitcases, if I recall correctly, measure 3 cubic meters - so that is what we did! Advantages goods arrive with you, not a few weeks later! It is amazing what you can pack in 10-12 cases using vacuum bags - a shedload of clothes, boots, coats, bedding, towels, Cd's, work material, printer, toaster, double duvet.....!

So moving one person's personal belongings (no furniture) - £300, plus our flights, and a van from the airport, that makes about £800. 

Flat - one month's deposit and one months rent - £1000.

3. Move into furnished flat and you will soon have quite a shopping list, even just for basics missing from the kitchen, you don't want to sleep on those skanky pillows, etc. I know we spent about 120euros in Ikea one day just buying very basic kitchen utensils, etc (nothing fancy for someone only one step up from being a non-cook!). Over the course of a week, it was probably 200-300 for a few pieces of crockery, a few more towels, printer paper, a cheapo pair of curtains, a clock, pillows, a couple of cushions - just practical basics.

4. You will then continue to hike up extra costs for the first while, as you realise you do not have enough work clothes for the hot weather, buy a Spanish phone, have to pay up front and all at once for any utilty connection fees, car costs, various insurances, etc

All in all that's easily £3000 but it's far from a complete list, and is for one person not a family. As Jo says, anyone without immediate employment will quickly eat up any savings on daily living costs....and if you have to do it all in reverse in 6 months if things don't work out....


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## jojo

Pesky Wesky said:


> Yes, for a family to come over and just see - well, they've got to be a family with some financial back up.
> 
> Then, not trying to introduce thread drift here Jo , there's the emotional cost which as you well know, can be heavy even when things are going pretty well, what with the language, the paperwork and just not UNDERSTANDING what's going on around you. Then put into that a baby who can't stand the heat, a child coping with school or an angry teenager...
> 
> :hurt:


....... and then add the "failure" factor, the emotions of having to return with "tails between legs", probably having given up jobs, needing benefits......... heavens forbid, having sold up in the UK and returning to move in with relatives....!!! Sorry, I'm getting carried away with the horrors, altho these can happen.

I hasten to add that altho we've returned to the UK, apart from the relocation costs both ways, we were ok, OH didnt give up work, we had a good income (from him commuting). While we were in Spain, we had money behind us anyway and we also had money coming in by renting our UK house.

I just felt that it needed pointing out that those who are thinking about moving to Spain, apart from employment, or even an alternative income, need to think about the actual financial costs for getting the whole "charabanc" moved and settled!

Jo xxx


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## brocher

jojo said:


> ....... and then add the "failure" factor, the emotions of having to return with "tails between legs", probably having given up jobs, needing benefits......... heavens forbid, having sold up in the UK and returning to move in with relatives....!!! Sorry, I'm getting carried away with the horrors, altho these can happen.
> 
> I hasten to add that altho we've returned to the UK, apart from the relocation costs both ways, we were ok, OH didnt give up work, we had a good income (from him commuting). While we were in Spain, we had money behind us anyway and we also had money coming in by renting our UK house.
> 
> I just felt that it needed pointing out that those who are thinking about moving to Spain, apart from employment, or even an alternative income, need to think about the actual financial costs for getting the whole "charabanc" moved and settled!
> 
> Jo xxx


So, I think we've established that for a family to move over, stay 6 months, find they can't get a job and move back would easily cost well in excess of £10,000. Then they are faced with the prospect of arriving back in the UK with no home, no jobs - and the savings all spent.

It's not just the cost of going and "giving it a try" that needs serious consideration, it's the cost - financial and emotional - of possibly having to return and start all over again in the UK. 

Now, of course, you can't "not ever do nothing in case" but it's just plain common sense to weigh up ALL the pros and cons as part of the decision.


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## brocher

:hurt:

Oh, I've never seen that one before, I like it! I think it's the sound Jo's made every day since returning to the UK!


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## jojo

brocher said:


> So, I think we've established that for a family to move over, stay 6 months, find they can't get a job and move would easily cost well in excess of £10,000. Then they are faced with the prospect of arriving back in the UK with no home, no jobs - and the savings all spent.
> 
> It's not just the cost of going and "giving it a try" that needs serious consideration, it's the cost - financial and emotional - of possibly having to return and start all over again in the UK.
> 
> Now, of course, you can't "not ever do nothing in case" but it's just plain common sense to weigh up ALL the pros and cons as part of the decision.


 Exactly. You need to KNOW beyond reasonable doubt that you WILL have an income and that you WILL stay - and of course before you do anything at all, you need to have a spare £5K assuming that it is one way!

Jo xxx


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## Clemmie00

brocher said:


> A very valid point, Jo, and one that should be high in anyone's thougts unless they have a great deal of savings behind them.
> 
> I would agree, argue almost , that your figures are way on the conservative side.
> 
> You have reminded me of the near panic we were in as my dd, unexpectedly, decided to move to Spain this time last year.
> 
> Now, we are tight fisted Scots  and from my point of view, was already weary with the costs of students continually moving around. As it was not necessarily a "for life" move, I was determined that it should be done as cheaply as possible. I think we succeeded in keeping costs as low as possible, although transporting goods and multiple flights from Scotland do pretty much double the costs that would apply from England.
> 
> 1. Initial visit, about 4 days, to check that the offered employment seemed in order, scout out the area and look at a few flats, get a feel for rental prices, etc - flights, food hotels, etc probably cost £500. Others will need several research trips looking at areas to live and trying to find employment so costs could be much higher.
> 
> 2. Transport belongings to Spain. Minimum charge for shipping from Scotland was £300 and for that you could take 3 cubic meters of belongings. I worked out that BA allow passengers to carry 10 extra suitcases each, costing then £30 each. 10 suitcases, if I recall correctly, measure 3 cubic meters - so that is what we did! Advantages goods arrive with you, not a few weeks later! It is amazing what you can pack in 10-12 cases using vacuum bags - a shedload of clothes, boots, coats, bedding, towels, Cd's, work material, printer, toaster, double duvet.....!
> 
> So moving one person's personal belongings (no furniture) - £300, plus our flights, and a van from the airport, that makes about £800.
> 
> Flat - one month's deposit and one months rent - £1000.
> 
> 3. Move into furnished flat and you will soon have quite a shopping list, even just for basics missing from the kitchen, you don't want to sleep on those skanky pillows, etc. I know we spent about 120euros in Ikea one day just buying very basic kitchen utensils, etc (nothing fancy for someone only one step up from being a non-cook!). Over the course of a week, it was probably 200-300 for a few pieces of crockery, a few more towels, printer paper, a cheapo pair of curtains, a clock, pillows, a couple of cushions - just practical basics.
> 
> 4. You will then continue to hike up extra costs for the first while, as you realise you do not have enough work clothes for the hot weather, buy a Spanish phone, have to pay up front and all at once for any utilty connection fees, car costs, various insurances, etc
> 
> All in all that's easily £3000 but it's far from a complete list, and is for one person not a family. As Jo says, anyone without immediate employment will quickly eat up any savings on daily living costs....and if you have to do it all in reverse in 6 months if things don't work out....


It really depends on the person. I've moved around a fair bit as a single person and I've never spent anything like £3000 on relocation. I don't think I've ever had £3000 in my account at any one time, full stop. 

I've always managed fine with what I can carry - yes, that means two big suitcases and a carry-on backpack. That includes clothes, shoes, iron, mugs, a Tesco saucepan and other bits and pieces. A sleeping bag which opens out into a duvet, a duvet cover (which works on its own as a cover most months in Spain), pillow cases and a sheet. I usually use Ryanair, so fly for less than £150 including the bags and I take a bus or train from the airport. Don't see why anyone would need ten suitcases. Modern technology makes it even easier to travel light - when I was a child, I'd need half a suitcase for my CD collection, now I just have an iPod and dock. My netbook (for business and pleasure - have all my movies and TV shows on it) goes into my handbag. 

I almost never buy clothes when I get somewhere, it's a waste of money when clothes are much cheaper in the UK. I buy almost everything in charity shops in the UK (really nice designer stuff usually - not cheap tat) and take it with me. Give what I'm not taking back to the charity shops. I have an unlocked mobile and only need to buy a SIM card for it, no need to buy a whole new phone. 

I think it boils down to people have different circumstances and expectations. Other people's 'must-haves' would be luxury items for me. I can honestly say that I've never spent more than about £1200 moving country and most of that figure was the deposit and first month rent for the flat (in Belgium, where rental costs are high).


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## jojo

Clemmie00 said:


> It really depends on the person. I've moved around a fair bit as a single person and I've never spent anything like £3000 on relocation. I don't think I've ever had £3000 in my account at any one time, full stop.
> 
> I've always managed fine with what I can carry - yes, that means two big suitcases and a carry-on backpack. That includes clothes, shoes, iron, mugs, a Tesco saucepan and other bits and pieces. A sleeping bag which opens out into a duvet, a duvet cover (which works on its own as a cover most months in Spain), pillow cases and a sheet. I usually use Ryanair, so fly for less than £150 including the bags and I take a bus or train from the airport. Don't see why anyone would need ten suitcases. Modern technology makes it even easier to travel light - when I was a child, I'd need half a suitcase for my CD collection, now I just have an iPod and dock. My netbook (for business and pleasure - have all my movies and TV shows on it) goes into my handbag.
> 
> I almost never buy clothes when I get somewhere, it's a waste of money when clothes are much cheaper in the UK. I buy almost everything in charity shops in the UK (really nice designer stuff usually - not cheap tat) and take it with me. Give what I'm not taking back to the charity shops. I have an unlocked mobile and only need to buy a SIM card for it, no need to buy a whole new phone.
> 
> I think it boils down to people have different circumstances and expectations. Other people's 'must-haves' would be luxury items for me. I can honestly say that I've never spent more than about £1200 moving country and most of that figure was the deposit and first month rent for the flat (in Belgium, where rental costs are high).


I assume that you must be very young. You'll find as you get older, you accrue possessions and necessities that add up and cant be left cos theres nowhere to leave anything......... and when you have kids it becomes a logistical nightmare lol!!!

Jo xxx


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## Clemmie00

jojo said:


> I assume that you must be very young. You'll find as you get older, you accrue possessions and necessities that add up and cant be left cos theres nowhere to leave anything......... and when you have kids it becomes a logistical nightmare lol!!!
> 
> Jo xxx


I'm 27 and engaged, hardly a student. I got from that post that brocher's daughter was fairly young and single like I was when I moved. I don't think you really 'need' to accrue much. My partner moved to Asia for a year with one suitcase and when he leaves London, I doubt he'll have more than two, and he's almost 31. Sure, kids complicate everything, but as a childless person, I don't see the need to be dragging the kitchen sink from country to country or to buy anything that's not absolutely necessary. I try to keep my 'stuff' to a minimum precisely because I'm never sure when I'll be on the move again. Each to their own but I think most possessions are just a burden. When I'm married and fairly sure I'll be staying in one place for many years, I'll invest in all the household stuff, but it's not worth it for what could be a short stay.


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## bob_bob

Don't forget that the first thing you want to do when you go to live anywhere new is explore, see whats around you, get out, meet people....you spend a lot lot more than usual those first couple of months until you orientate and settle in a little.

Average family of four renting would I think need €2000 a month. I would guess a six month trip including 'start up' costs won't leave much change from €16k or more.


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## Pesky Wesky

Clemmie00 said:


> I'm 27 and engaged, hardly a student. I got from that post that brocher's daughter was fairly young and single like I was when I moved. I don't think you really 'need' to accrue much. My partner moved to Asia for a year with one suitcase and when he leaves London, I doubt he'll have more than two, and he's almost 31. Sure, kids complicate everything, but as a childless person, I don't see the need to be dragging the kitchen sink from country to country or to buy anything that's not absolutely necessary. I try to keep my 'stuff' to a minimum precisely because I'm never sure when I'll be on the move again. Each to their own but I think most possessions are just a burden. When I'm married and fairly sure I'll be staying in one place for many years, I'll invest in all the household stuff, but it's not worth it for what could be a short stay.


I think I was 27 when I came to Spain and I didn't have more than a couple of suitcases either. I was surprised by Brocher's daughter's 10 suitcases too. However, if I had had nice stuff I might have wanted to bring it over. I had been teaching in Colombia previously and the furniture and other things that I'd had there were not worth shipping over.
But this is another decision that has to be made obviously - take things or buy/ rent furnished in the new place. Certainly it's a lot more hassle packing things up and shipping them over, but is it cheaper for a family? Then with kids you need to get some basic order (well, most people think along those lines) asap so a bed and a few toys are essential in the first few days...


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## xabiaxica

Pesky Wesky said:


> I think I was 27 when I came to Spain and I didn't have more than a couple of suitcases either. I was surprised by Brocher's daughter's 10 suitcases too. However, if I had had nice stuff I might have wanted to bring it over. I had been teaching in Colombia previously and the furniture and other things that I'd had there were not worth shipping over.
> But this is another decision that has to be made obviously - take things or buy/ rent furnished in the new place. Certainly it's a lot more hassle packing things up and shipping them over, but is it cheaper for a family? Then with kids you need to get some basic order (well, most people think along those lines) asap so a bed and a few toys are essential in the first few days...


we came when the kids were 4 & 7 - with 4 suitcases between the 4 of us!!!

the cat flew over a few weeks later............ & when we'd been here about 6 months & decided to move out of the seafront apartment we'd rented & into a house with a garden & pool (easier with little kids) we needed a 'man with a van' who had to do several trips!!!

we probably got through about 7-8K that first year on various bits & pieces - not including a car

over the years we've obviously acquired more stuff - & although this house is 'furnished' the only furniture we actually use which belongs to the landlord is the dining table & chairs & a sofabed in the games/guest room! - the rest is in the basement garage

I dread to think what it would cost to move back - because I'm much more attached emotionally to some of this furniture that the stuff we had in the UK, & would hate to leave it behind


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## mrypg9

Everything that has been said is true. Every person/family who moves is unique and will have their particular priorities about possessions.
When we decided to leave the UK we decided to take all our possessions with us. We sold the house we lived in and the contents of a fairly large cottage were shipped off to Prague. I think it cost around £4k in 2005. People said we should sell our stuff and buy new furniture in the CR but we wanted our things around us partly because we had 'good' furniture but chiefly because we thought we would find it easier to settle into rented accommodation with familiar objects around us.
The only other cost was our flight to Prague - about £200 if I remember rightly.
But we were two well-travelled adults with no dependents and with knowledge of and friends in the country we were relocating to.

The move from Prague to Spain cost about £5k for shipping our stuff again. We drove down in a mini-convoy of two vehicles and I think that journey, including hotel stays for two nights, cost £1500.

We weren't looking for work and were able to stay in our family house while we looked for our own rental property.

The main factor in this climate is the availability of work. If you have no job and have a family you shouldn't be thinking of moving to Spain at this time.
Too many people think that the problems they have in the UK will evaporate when the sun comes out. Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't.
I am frankly amazed at times by the sheer lack of realism on the part of some would-be immigrants. 
Spain is a land of chronic unemployment not a land of milk and honey.
I don't feel bad about bursting people's bubbles - better on a virtual site than the harsh reality they would encounter in Spain.


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## Tilley

Just wanted to say that this is a really useful thread to anyone who is thinking of moving across whatever their status, old. young, kids, single etc as you can take from it the parts that are relevant to your circumstances. I have been doing a fair few searches on here and not seem it covered in the info I have tapped into.


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## mrypg9

Tilley said:


> Just wanted to say that this is a really useful thread to anyone who is thinking of moving across whatever their status, old. young, kids, single etc as you can take from it the parts that are relevant to your circumstances. I have been doing a fair few searches on here and not seem it covered in the info I have tapped into.


Agreed 100%. It was invaluable when we considered our move from Prague.

And Xavia will be blissfully unaware that her providing information about security of tenancy about a year ago removed with a few strokes of her keyboard a huge worry that had lurked in my mind,which was how secure were we in this house which we love? Could the landlord simply throw us out when our contract came to an end...?

By providing links to and a few details of LAU she enabled me to dismiss any uncetainties and get on with worry-free enjoyment of our tenancy. I'm sure others have had their minds put at rest by helpful advice and information given freely on this Forum.

We have an excellent landlord but I have to say he has excellent tenants!! 
We've been landlords and tenants so hopefully have a balanced view of things.


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## brocher

mrypg9 said:


> Agreed 100%. It was invaluable when we considered our move from Prague.
> 
> And Xavia will be blissfully unaware that her providing information about security of tenancy about a year ago removed with a few strokes of her keyboard a huge worry that had lurked in my mind,which was how secure were we in this house which we love? Could the landlord simply throw us out when our contract came to an end...?
> 
> By providing links to and a few details of LAU she enabled me to dismiss any uncetainties and get on with worry-free enjoyment of our tenancy. I'm sure others have had their minds put at rest by helpful advice and information given freely on this Forum.
> 
> We have an excellent landlord but I have to say he has excellent tenants!!
> We've been landlords and tenants so hopefully have a balanced view of things.



Err, for anyone who thinks 10 suitcases is a lot - then all you regulars need to know that you are responsible!

Our initial thoughts were to move with little more than Clemmie and had it been left to my daughter, she probably would have thrown a random assortment of shorts, T-shirts in a case and taken off!

As it was she did have a full house of belongings, mostly second hand furniture and scrounged stuff from family, as she'd been in unfurnished rentals for some time. 

Most furniture was sold/ given away and the rest was packed and moved to my house. There were some good threads on this forum at the time - "what did you wish you had brought to Spain," etc

Having researched prices for moving goods, and realising we had the "BA £30 each suitcase" option, it soon became clear that it would actually save a fortune over the first couple of years, to take more, rather than less! It is quite possible to pack several hundreds of pounds worth of stuff in a suitcase (or mega huge £2 launderette bag or holdall) - and if that "stuff" is stuff you already own, and have no other use for, and would end up having to go out and buy within your first year or two, then it seemed far, far cheaper to take it.

So all the things you lot mentioned, which we would never have thought of needing were packed - the warm duvet and covers (you were all moaning about the cold in winter), the summer bedding, the spare bedding for when one set is in the wash, (bedding was being widely discussed on one thread) - the air bed and bedding for visitors - yes someone on this forum was panicing looking for beds for their first visitors

A couple of coats, boots, socks, fleeces because -you were all still moaning about the cold in winter! How much would she have spent when it got cold and wet, had she not brought those things over?

As well as the summer clothes (and shoes and hadbags) and the work clothes in went the party clothes. Umpteen dresses went for the price of going out and buying one outfit the minute you get your first invitation out! And hey, no one over there has seen you were it before!

On this forum, I read you can use your UK Freesat -so in it went!

From this forum, I knew electrical goods tend to be more expensive than in the UK, so in went the hairdryer, straighteners, printer, laminator, shredder.... and the adaptor plugs! A keyboard was needed -we could take one from home for £30 on BA, or spend hundreds for a new one in Spain.

From this forum we knew that renting in summer would be difficult so we took care of that. We new exactly what was needed for the so called "furnished flat," - so we were able to plan exactly what was worth taking over - and where to go buy the rest on arrival (Chinese Bazaars!). We knew exactly what, and where, to compare prices and availabilty, when we first visited in April so we could plan what to take and where to draw the line and leave it behind.

Nothing was bought especially to take over, it was just all the stuff she already owned but would have ended up spending a fortune having to go out and buy over the first year or so. I wouldn't think it would be worth anyone buying new things then taking them over.

Our logic for the move works from UK to Spain, it would probably be different if you were going further afield where transportation costs are higher - or local goods cheaper. It would be different for a family or someone like Mary, who had a lot of nice stuff accumulated over many years.Mary and Tilley have it dead right, you read these forums, you find things that work for you, consider the options - and ignore the rest.


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## mrypg9

brocher said:


> Our logic for the move works from UK to Spain, it would probably be different if you were going further afield where transportation costs are higher - or local goods cheaper. It would be different for a family or someone like Mary, who had a lot of nice stuff accumulated over many years.Mary and Tilley have it dead right, you read these forums, you find things that work for you, consider the options - and ignore the rest.



Our furniture wasn't antique or anything...the only thing with Queen Anne legs in our house is me....
But I don't like change and I just know it would have been harder for me to settle in another country without the table I'd eaten off for over thirty years and my familiar pictures hanging on the walls.
We are both avid readers so we have a lot of bookcases and books. No way could I leave them. 

I moved more times in the last five years than in my entire life. My ex-husband used to tease me by saying I had spiritually never left the house I was born in and I suspect he was right. When we came to Spain we moved into my son's house then into an awful piso and finally to this house...all in six months.
We had moved from a flat to a house when we were in Prague. 
So five moves in three years.....with a pantechnicon full of stuff, apart from the last move when my son and a friend very nobly hired a large van and spent two days moving us into this house.
He has sternly told us to stay where we are for at least five years....


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## Pesky Wesky

mrypg9 said:


> Our furniture wasn't antique or anything...the only thing with Queen Anne legs in our house is me....


Do you know the Roald Dahl story about the legs on a piece of furniture? If you've got an ebook I bet you could download it free, it's called Parson's Pleasure.


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## brocher

mrypg9 said:


> Our furniture wasn't antique or anything...the only thing with Queen Anne legs in our house is me....
> But I don't like change and I just know it would have been harder for me to settle in another country without the table I'd eaten off for over thirty years and my familiar pictures hanging on the walls.
> We are both avid readers so we have a lot of bookcases and books. No way could I leave them.
> 
> I moved more times in the last five years than in my entire life. My ex-husband used to tease me by saying I had spiritually never left the house I was born in and I suspect he was right. When we came to Spain we moved into my son's house then into an awful piso and finally to this house...all in six months.
> We had moved from a flat to a house when we were in Prague.
> So five moves in three years.....with a pantechnicon full of stuff, apart from the last move when my son and a friend very nobly hired a large van and spent two days moving us into this house.
> He has sternly told us to stay where we are for at least five years....


I've not moved for quite a while, but my two have moved eight times between them in the last six years! I began to worry when we were becoming friends with Vanman. I have sternly told them to stay where they are for at least five years!


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## Clemmie00

For a move definitely intended to be long term (several years to forever), yes, I'd just take everything over. For the 'let's see how it goes' brigade, I think it's way more sensible to take as little as possible.

I think it's just a bit misleading to suggest that it's necessary to spend £3000 on a move when it can easily be done for much, much less. A lot of the things you mentioned are really comforts, not necessities. For example, there's really no need for a spare set of bedding. You can just wash it early in the morning and hang it up to dry. We've had only the one set of bedding in our London flat for the last year along with two saucepans and one frying pan. We could easily have bought more to make it a bit easier, but to be honest, we're fine with what we have. When we moved into this place, we weren't sure how long we'd be here, so we tried to keep possessions to a minimum and we haven't missed much at all. 

Taking loads of clothes doesn't make a lot of sense either. It's not as if you have to go out and buy new stuff if you don't take your entire wardrobe to Spain. If you're careful about what you take, you can manage fine with fewer outfits than at home. I lived for several years with only the clothes I could fit in a suitcase and I'm a BIG fashion addict. Since charity shops are cheap and plentiful in London and I'm living in a fairly spacious flat, I've acquired many new outfits/shoes/scarves but I'm not going to take them all to Spain. Until I'm sure the move is long term, I'll probably loan them to friends or sell them on ebay. I really don't _need_ them. 

I would imagine that most people moving over wouldn't need laminators and shredders - maybe a printer if they'd definitely use it, but I haven't even got one here and I'm a teacher. I know all too well how easy it to bring 'everything you need' - I'm unfortunately not a natural light packer - but I don't think it's at all necessary in most cases. When we moved here, we intended to 'make do' until we got around to buying stuff and we found that we didn't even buy most of what we'd planned. 

It just depends on your expectations and what you consider necessary. I've moved around so much that I just see excess possessions as a burden now.


----------



## brocher

Clemmie00 said:


> For a move definitely intended to be long term (several years to forever), yes, I'd just take everything over. For the 'let's see how it goes' brigade, I think it's way more sensible to take as little as possible.
> 
> I think it's just a bit misleading to suggest that it's necessary to spend £3000 on a move when it can easily be done for much, much less. A lot of the things you mentioned are really comforts, not necessities. For example, there's really no need for a spare set of bedding. You can just wash it early in the morning and hang it up to dry. We've had only the one set of bedding in our London flat for the last year along with two saucepans and one frying pan. We could easily have bought more to make it a bit easier, but to be honest, we're fine with what we have. When we moved into this place, we weren't sure how long we'd be here, so we tried to keep possessions to a minimum and we haven't missed much at all.
> 
> Taking loads of clothes doesn't make a lot of sense either. It's not as if you have to go out and buy new stuff if you don't take your entire wardrobe to Spain. If you're careful about what you take, you can manage fine with fewer outfits than at home. I lived for several years with only the clothes I could fit in a suitcase and I'm a BIG fashion addict. Since charity shops are cheap and plentiful in London and I'm living in a fairly spacious flat, I've acquired many new outfits/shoes/scarves but I'm not going to take them all to Spain. Until I'm sure the move is long term, I'll probably loan them to friends or sell them on ebay. I really don't _need_ them.
> 
> I would imagine that most people moving over wouldn't need laminators and shredders - maybe a printer if they'd definitely use it, but I haven't even got one here and I'm a teacher. I know all too well how easy it to bring 'everything you need' - I'm unfortunately not a natural light packer - but I don't think it's at all necessary in most cases. When we moved here, we intended to 'make do' until we got around to buying stuff and we found that we didn't even buy most of what we'd planned.
> 
> It just depends on your expectations and what you consider necessary. I've moved around so much that I just see excess possessions as a burden now.


Each to their own - the laminator is needed - and the shredder is plain common sense in this day and age!

I'd take plenty of those cheap clothes to Spain if I were you. I think new ones are more expensive than the UK - and you can forget about charity shops! The Spanish don't have the same ideas as us about selling second hand goods - they tend to ask as much as the new price. 

Charity clothes shops tend to be few and far between - and are very expensive. There are two in my daughters town and I've looked in them several times. They ask about 20euros for a tired, old top - granted it's a "label" - unfortunately, that label is usually George (Asda) or Atmosphere (Primark)!! I kid you not! On my last visit, I took her over a brand new Levi denim jacket, £20 in a sale - looked in the charity shop and the second hand ones were all 20-25euros.

Your unlocked SIM only phone might not be the best idea in Spain either. That is exactly what my daughter planned to do but, unless it's changed in the last few months, the Spanish don't do SIM only. 

They do, however, do very good PAYG rates with a basic Nokia for £20. This works out very well - cheap callls and texts for her - and she keeps her UK phone with a little PAYG credit so all her family and friends can contact her for free using contract minutes. Usually, we Skype, but with vodafone UK contracts anyone can call her free, up to an hour, and she is charged only 75p and texts are completely free.

Most of the phone companies are unwilling to sign you up to a contract without your NIE, so you will probably have to do PAYG to start with - but as I said earlier it is quite cheap, and also allows you to see you are getting good reception, which can vary a lot in Spain, before you commit.


----------



## Pesky Wesky

brocher said:


> Most of the phone companies are unwilling to sign you up to a contract without your NIE, so you will probably have to do PAYG to start with - but as I said earlier it is quite cheap, and also allows you to see you are getting good reception, which can vary a lot in Spain, before you commit.


I believe it's illegal to do so (here I go again. I sound like the police patrol on the forum today). Mobile phone stuff was changed after the huge bomb attacks carried out by al qaeda because they were detonated by phones. It would have been much easier to trace all people involved in the attacks with some kind of ID, even if it was false.


----------



## Clemmie00

brocher said:


> Each to their own - the laminator is needed - and the shredder is plain common sense in this day and age!
> 
> I'd take plenty of those cheap clothes to Spain if I were you. I think new ones are more expensive than the UK - and you can forget about charity shops! The Spanish don't have the same ideas as us about selling second hand goods - they tend to ask as much as the new price.
> 
> Charity clothes shops tend to be few and far between - and are very expensive. There are two in my daughters town and I've looked in them several times. They ask about 20euros for a tired, old top - granted it's a "label" - unfortunately, that label is usually George (Asda) or Atmosphere (Primark)!! I kid you not! On my last visit, I took her over a brand new Levi denim jacket, £20 in a sale - looked in the charity shop and the second hand ones were all 20-25euros.
> 
> Your unlocked SIM only phone might not be the best idea in Spain either. That is exactly what my daughter planned to do but, unless it's changed in the last few months, the Spanish don't do SIM only.
> 
> They do, however, do very good PAYG rates with a basic Nokia for £20. This works out very well - cheap callls and texts for her - and she keeps her UK phone with a little PAYG credit so all her family and friends can contact her for free using contract minutes. Usually, we Skype, but with vodafone UK contracts anyone can call her free, up to an hour, and she is charged only 75p and texts are completely free.
> 
> Most of the phone companies are unwilling to sign you up to a contract without your NIE, so you will probably have to do PAYG to start with - but as I said earlier it is quite cheap, and also allows you to see you are getting good reception, which can vary a lot in Spain, before you commit.


I've never used a shredder, I just tear things up myself. Same result, no? I'm not running a business, though. 

Why would I take all my clothes to Spain? I have far, far more than I need. I know there are no charity shops in Spain (I have already lived there!) but I can mix and match outfits more than I currently do. I'm lucky in that I can leave quite a lot with friends/family/in cheap storage but if I couldn't, I'd probably sell most of it. I've been spoiled with charity shops here in London - the same level of quality and value for money doesn't really exist anywhere else - but it's a small thing. I managed fine without them for years. 

I had a SIM only deal last time, but I can't remember what it was now. If you can no longer do that, I'll just get the basic one. I have a Blackberry here which is nice, but no way I'm going to commit to any contracts over there unless I'm staying a long time (and they probably wouldn't give me a contract anyway!)


----------



## brocher

Pesky Wesky said:


> I believe it's illegal to do so (here I go again. I sound like the police patrol on the forum today). Mobile phone stuff was changed after the huge bomb attacks carried out by al qaeda because they were detonated by phones. It would have been much easier to trace all people involved in the attacks with some kind of ID, even if it was false.



Yes, I think it's something like that - but, maybe not quite that either - because don't criminals buy PAYG so surely it would actually make more sense if you needed your NIE for them, too!


----------



## Pesky Wesky

brocher said:


> Yes, I think it's something like that - but, maybe not quite that either - because don't criminals buy PAYG so surely it would actually make more sense if you needed your NIE for them, too!


Well, I'm pretty sure I did. I haven't got a contract and I know I took my NIE. Did they ask for it? I thought they did. I thought it was the only thing except the autonomo alta y baja that I have done with my NIE. Perhaps it was for my daughter's, also PAYGO, when she was a minor???


----------



## Clemmie00

brocher said:


> Yes, I think it's something like that - but, maybe not quite that either - because don't criminals buy PAYG so surely it would actually make more sense if you needed your NIE for them, too!


I needed to show my passport to get a Spanish PAYG phone once. Found that pretty odd.


----------



## brocher

Oh dear, I've just had a thought, talking of illegal phone activities.

Maybe what you did last time before the rules changed, Clemmie, was just to buy a SIM card. Now I think you're not supposed to be able to do that now without NIE - because of the terrorist thing, or you can buy one but can't keep reloading it with credit. It is liable to be blocked, or cut off - or something.

Anyway, we were unaware of this and bought one from an internet cafe to use on our first visit. We had no problems - but if you were to get one, without being registered, don't put too much credit on it, in case "they" block it.

The other option, I referred to is a SIM only plan, common in the UK but apparently not in Spain.


----------



## brocher

Clemmie00 said:


> I needed to show my passport to get a Spanish PAYG phone once. Found that pretty odd.


No a lot of them need to see your passport, or NIE. It's something to do with phones being registered because of anti-terrorist measures. Clearly, neither Pesky or I are quite clear on the actual technicalities of this legislation!

Of course, sometimes it's just the Spanish way - different shop, different assistant, different day - different rules!


----------



## Clemmie00

brocher said:


> No a lot of them need to see your passport, or NIE. It's something to do with phones being registered because of anti-terrorist measures. Clearly, neither Pesky or I are quite clear on the actual technicalities of this legislation!
> 
> Of course, sometimes it's just the Spanish way - different shop, different assistant, different day - different rules!


Oh, I know it's the norm in Spain, I meant it was odd for me, coming from a country where you're entitled to buy any phone and any SIM you like, no questions asked.


----------



## chianti13

I did the Camino de Santiago back in 2010 and by the time I got to Pamplona realised it was going to be WAY too expensive to carry on with my English phone so popped into a shop in the town centre and picked up a Spanish PAYG sim with my passport no problem, I still use it whenever I'm in Spain haven't had any problems with it being blocked or anything


----------



## brocher

Clemmie00 said:


> Oh, I know it's the norm in Spain, I meant it was odd for me, coming from a country where you're entitled to buy any phone and any SIM you like, no questions asked.


I take it your mind is pretty much made up - you're going to Spain?!?


----------



## Clemmie00

brocher said:


> I take it your mind is pretty much made up - you're going to Spain?!?


No, not completely. Just starting to look into it seriously so that if I do go, I'm not unprepared.


----------



## brocher

Clemmie00 said:


> No, not completely. Just starting to look into it seriously so that if I do go, I'm not unprepared.


I hope it all works out, wherever you go - and however much clothes you take!

You will get a lot of advice on this forum if you need it!


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## jules 123

brocher said:


> No a lot of them need to see your passport, or NIE. It's something to do with phones being registered because of anti-terrorist measures. Clearly, neither Pesky or I are quite clear on the actual technicalities of this legislation!
> 
> Of course, sometimes it's just the Spanish way - different shop, different assistant, different day - different rules!


I purchased a SIM in April this year, PAYG not contract, and had to produce my passport. My previous SIM had been blocked as it hadn't been used for seven months; I believe 6 months is the cut off point.


----------



## jules 123

chianti13 said:


> I did the Camino de Santiago back in 2010 and by the time I got to Pamplona realised it was going to be WAY too expensive to carry on with my English phone so popped into a shop in the town centre and picked up a Spanish PAYG sim with my passport no problem, I still use it whenever I'm in Spain haven't had any problems with it being blocked or anything


You may find that it will be blocked if not used for six months. If this is likely to happen, the easiest way is to get a contact in Spain to purchase five euros worth of credit on your behalf ... they only have to produce your mobile tel no.


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## Solwriter

brocher said:


> Your unlocked SIM only phone might not be the best idea in Spain either. That is exactly what my daughter planned to do but, unless it's changed in the last few months, the Spanish don't do SIM only.


Yes they do - I have 2 unlocked phones purchased in the UK (where I use one of them with a UK PAYG SIM). I bought SIMs only for both of them to use in Spain on PAYG.

But yes, I get regular reminders that service to the phone will be cut off if I don't make a new payment within 6 months. The reminder texts usually arrive 3 months in, then keep on coming until the one month stage, when I give up and put money on them!

And each SIM I purchased they asked for my passport. They have never asked me for my NIE number, even though I always have it ready, just in case.


----------



## xabiaxica

Clemmie00 said:


> For a move definitely intended to be long term (several years to forever), yes, I'd just take everything over. For the 'let's see how it goes' brigade, I think it's way more sensible to take as little as possible.
> 
> I think it's just a bit misleading to suggest that it's necessary to spend £3000 on a move when it can easily be done for much, much less. A lot of the things you mentioned are really comforts, not necessities. For example, there's really no need for a spare set of bedding. You can just wash it early in the morning and hang it up to dry. We've had only the one set of bedding in our London flat for the last year along with two saucepans and one frying pan. We could easily have bought more to make it a bit easier, but to be honest, we're fine with what we have. When we moved into this place, we weren't sure how long we'd be here, so we tried to keep possessions to a minimum and we haven't missed much at all.
> 
> Taking loads of clothes doesn't make a lot of sense either. It's not as if you have to go out and buy new stuff if you don't take your entire wardrobe to Spain. If you're careful about what you take, you can manage fine with fewer outfits than at home. I lived for several years with only the clothes I could fit in a suitcase and I'm a BIG fashion addict. Since charity shops are cheap and plentiful in London and I'm living in a fairly spacious flat, I've acquired many new outfits/shoes/scarves but I'm not going to take them all to Spain. Until I'm sure the move is long term, I'll probably loan them to friends or sell them on ebay. I really don't _need_ them.
> 
> I would imagine that most people moving over wouldn't need laminators and shredders - maybe a printer if they'd definitely use it, but I haven't even got one here and I'm a teacher. I know all too well how easy it to bring 'everything you need' - I'm unfortunately not a natural light packer - but I don't think it's at all necessary in most cases. When we moved here, we intended to 'make do' until we got around to buying stuff and we found that we didn't even buy most of what we'd planned.
> 
> It just depends on your expectations and what you consider necessary. I've moved around so much that I just see excess possessions as a burden now.


lol - we were on a suck it & see - we had one set of sheets too.............. it rained constantly the first 3 weeks we were here & there was no way of getting them dry!!

so we bought a tumbledryer ......... probably would have just bought another set of sheets, but with kids & clothes for 4 people the tumbledryer was more useful in our case

there are charity shops in my town, all run by brits - but the Spanish aren't big on charity shops (yet) & if you love fashion you wouln't much like what can be found in the brit ones here


----------



## jojo

Clemmie00 said:


> For a move definitely intended to be long term (several years to forever), yes, I'd just take everything over. For the 'let's see how it goes' brigade, I think it's way more sensible to take as little as possible.
> 
> I think it's just a bit misleading to suggest that it's necessary to spend £3000 on a move when it can easily be done for much, much less. A lot of the things you mentioned are really comforts, not necessities. For example, there's really no need for a spare set of bedding. You can just wash it early in the morning and hang it up to dry. We've had only the one set of bedding in our London flat for the last year along with two saucepans and one frying pan. We could easily have bought more to make it a bit easier, but to be honest, we're fine with what we have. When we moved into this place, we weren't sure how long we'd be here, so we tried to keep possessions to a minimum and we haven't missed much at all.
> 
> Taking loads of clothes doesn't make a lot of sense either. It's not as if you have to go out and buy new stuff if you don't take your entire wardrobe to Spain. If you're careful about what you take, you can manage fine with fewer outfits than at home. I lived for several years with only the clothes I could fit in a suitcase and I'm a BIG fashion addict. Since charity shops are cheap and plentiful in London and I'm living in a fairly spacious flat, I've acquired many new outfits/shoes/scarves but I'm not going to take them all to Spain. Until I'm sure the move is long term, I'll probably loan them to friends or sell them on ebay. I really don't _need_ them.
> 
> I would imagine that most people moving over wouldn't need laminators and shredders - maybe a printer if they'd definitely use it, but I haven't even got one here and I'm a teacher. I know all too well how easy it to bring 'everything you need' - I'm unfortunately not a natural light packer - but I don't think it's at all necessary in most cases. When we moved here, we intended to 'make do' until we got around to buying stuff and we found that we didn't even buy most of what we'd planned.
> 
> It just depends on your expectations and what you consider necessary. I've moved around so much that I just see excess possessions as a burden now.


When I mentioned £3k to move, I was talking about an average family, upping sticks, which IN GENERAL means bringing most of their possessions with them and moving properly. There are and will be always those who arrive with a suitcase, but IN GENERAL those who are planning to move to Spain with their families want to move to Spain, not come over leaving everything behind (in storage???) and camp in Spain. The kids want their bikes, toys, games, mum and dad want their clothes, their CDs, bedding, hairdryers, kettles, toasters etc... they want to bring the dog, the cat....... Their lives!

And most, once they arrive will need to buy extra bits and peices, pay for UK tv, mobiles, etc............

Jo xxxx


----------



## mrypg9

xabiachica said:


> there are charity shops in my town, all run by brits - but the Spanish aren't big on charity shops (yet) & if you love fashion you wouln't much like what can be found in the brit ones here


We have a charity shop which is patronised mainly by Moroccans and poorer Spanish families but the donations of clothing etc. are mainly from Brits and some of the clothes we get are like a seventies or eighties revival...or even sixties.

Lurid or pastel colours, shapeless sweaters, crimplene trousers with elasticated waists...

I have made very many visits but have yet to come across one single garment I would consider being buried in let alone walk around in public view on my person.


----------



## Solwriter

mrypg9 said:


> We have a charity shop which is patronised mainly by Moroccans and poorer Spanish families but the donations of clothing etc. are mainly from Brits and some of the clothes we get are like a seventies or eighties revival...or even sixties.
> 
> Lurid or pastel colours, shapeless sweaters, crimplene trousers with elasticated waists...
> 
> I have made very many visits but have yet to come across one single garment I would consider being buried in let alone walk around in public view on my person.


Sounds a bit like our local village market. 

Many cheap clothes and shoes to be had... but only if you can find a matching pair of shoes (unlikely) and don't mind wearing something even your granny would have turned up her nose at.

Each week I go along in the hopes of finding something (anything!), but each week I am disappointed.


----------



## mrypg9

Solwriter said:


> Sounds a bit like our local village market.
> 
> Many cheap clothes and shoes to be had... but only if you can find a matching pair of shoes (unlikely) and don't mind wearing something even your granny would have turned up her nose at.
> 
> Each week I go along in the hopes of finding something (anything!), but each week I am disappointed.


I keep hoping some enterprising person will open a branch of TK Maxx or Labels for Less within easy reach of our village.

Yes, I know it's silly, superficial blah blah but I am a sad old label queen.
But not at the crazy designer original price which surely no sane person would pay.

Example: I am today clad in a fetching pair of Ralph Lauren shorts, silk and canvas, for which I paid £14.99. The original ticket price: £149.99
Completing this ensemble is a Ralph Lauren polo shirt for which I paid £9.99, ticketed at £69.99.

It makes you wonder what kind of people pay that kind of money for such things. I get pleasure from wearing the clothes and from thinking about the twerps who paid so much more than I did or ever would for them.

We lived in a fairly affluent part of the UK, surrounded by large estates so our local charity shop had loads of really posh stuff - a lot of which is now here in Sandra's wardrobe...Chanel, Aquascutum et al...all second-hand.

We're not proud ( a tad pretentious on the cheap, some might say....)


----------



## Alcalaina

mrypg9 said:


> I keep hoping some enterprising person will open a branch of TK Maxx or Labels for Less within easy reach of our village.


The Factory at Guadacorte (just past San Roque) used to do designer outlet stuff but most of the units are empty now. Sign of the times ... 

I did get some authentic Levi 627s there for €10 the other week though (more my thing!)


----------



## mrypg9

Alcalaina said:


> The Factory at Guadacorte (just past San Roque) used to do designer outlet stuff but most of the units are empty now. Sign of the times ...
> 
> I did get some authentic Levi 627s there for €10 the other week though (more my thing!)


I've been to that outlet but it didn't have much stuff when we went about a year ago.
I like my Calvin Klein, Ralph Lauren, Hilfiger....at jumble sale prices though.

In summer I wear shorts all the time, in winter jeans but I am a typically English shape and the only jeans that fit me are from The Gap.
When we were in the UK our house was EBay central. Sandra was forever bidding for things for both of us and getting 'good'clothes at silly prices, like Jaeger tweedy jackets for jeans and Oakley sunglasses.

If I won the Lottery I still wouldn't pay daft prices for clothes. Rather spend the money on books and CDs as I guess would you...

Which reminds me...Have you come across a book 'The Emperor of Lies' by Steve Sem-Sandburg?


----------



## brocher

mrypg9 said:


> I keep hoping some enterprising person will open a branch of TK Maxx or Labels for Less within easy reach of our village.
> 
> Yes, I know it's silly, superficial blah blah but I am a sad old label queen.
> But not at the crazy designer original price which surely no sane person would pay.
> 
> Example: I am today clad in a fetching pair of Ralph Lauren shorts, silk and canvas, for which I paid £14.99. The original ticket price: £149.99
> Completing this ensemble is a Ralph Lauren polo shirt for which I paid £9.99, ticketed at £69.99.
> 
> It makes you wonder what kind of people pay that kind of money for such things. I get pleasure from wearing the clothes and from thinking about the twerps who paid so much more than I did or ever would for them.
> 
> We lived in a fairly affluent part of the UK, surrounded by large estates so our local charity shop had loads of really posh stuff - a lot of which is now here in Sandra's wardrobe...Chanel, Aquascutum et al...all second-hand.
> 
> We're not proud ( a tad pretentious on the cheap, some might say....)


Wait up, you've confused me again!

You're always saying you don't look, or feel the part, for Marbella lifestyle - yet there you are floating around in designer gear!


----------



## mrypg9

brocher said:


> Wait up, you've confused me again!
> 
> You're always saying you don't look, or feel the part, for Marbella lifestyle - yet there you are floating around in designer gear!


Ahh....but it's only the surface, sadly! The body beneath needs all the help it can get, I'm afraid.

Turning up in 'Marbs', as I believe it's now called, in my cut-price gear, ratty hair and a battered old LandRover, just wouldn't make the right impression.
Unless there was a 'Grab a Granny' night in a nightclub... 

There's a lovely line from Shakespeare:
'Through tattered gowns small vices do appear/Plate sin with gold, hides all'.

It's not small vices beneath the untattered Ralph Lauren but large rolls of superfluous flesh...


----------



## bob_bob

mrypg9 said:


> Ahh....but it's only the surface, sadly! The body beneath needs all the help it can get, I'm afraid.
> 
> Turning up in 'Marbs', as I believe it's now called, in my cut-price gear, ratty hair and a battered old LandRover, just wouldn't make the right impression.
> Unless there was a 'Grab a Granny' night in a nightclub...
> 
> There's a lovely line from Shakespeare:
> 'Through tattered gowns small vices do appear/Plate sin with gold, hides all'.
> 
> It's not small vices beneath the untattered Ralph Lauren but large rolls of superfluous flesh...


Stay as you are Mary, the Costas and Gran Canaria present pitiful sights, certainly in the evening, pavements full of harridans covered in spray tan and lippy, their bodies desperately in search of an escape from the over tight clothing is not a nice thing to see.


----------



## mrypg9

bob_bob said:


> Stay as you are Mary, the Costas and Gran Canaria present pitiful sights, certainly in the evening, pavements full of harridans covered in spray tan and lippy, their bodies desperately in search of an escape from the over tight clothing is not a nice thing to see.


Thankyou, Rob

Whilst there is, thankfully, nothing like that in our village, I've seen scores when I've made forays up the coast.
I've seen women in their late sixties wearing clothes more suitable for a teenager. There seems to be an idea that in Spain normal tastes and conventions don't apply. Sorry, but I'm old-fashioned in that respect. My shorts are knee-length and I don't fall out of my Tshirts.
The most horrible thing that happened in our village was last summer when a group of Englishmen with shaven heads, tattoos and knuckles grazing the ground took over a couple of tables in one of our 'loca'l bars. We don't get people like that here usually, it's far too quiet, so they stuck out like a sore thumb.
They got drunk, yelled obscenities, catcalled passing women...then one got up, vomited over the pavement, sat down at his table and continued drinking.
They were too aggressive and intimidating for the bar owner and staff to do anything. I don't know if they called the police.
I felt extremely ashamed.


----------



## brocher

Mary, I was just reading that there is a Saturday morning market at the Bullring - main road, just above Banus and under N Andalucia when looking at a map, if that makes any sense!

Supposed to be good quality, but cheap designer stuff. I've never been, might just be cheap knock off - or you might find your alternative TK Maxx!


----------



## XTreme

mrypg9 said:


> There seems to be an idea that in Spain normal tastes and conventions don't apply.


You know what I find most disturbing Mary?
The guys of my generation who go round dressed like Kenneth Williams in "Carry on Camping". 

And god forbid you ever get stuck with one of them, because you discover that they really are sad, boring assclowns of the very worst kind.

My point is, when I was in my late teens people of my generation weren't like that. People wanted to have fun, they laughed, they joked.....they LIVED! In flares admittedly.....but we all have to put our hands up to that one.

So how did this generation turn into such a pitiful bunch of whingers who dress up in the sort of attire that we laughed at 40 years ago? Where did it all go wrong?


----------



## brocher

XTreme said:


> You know what I find most disturbing Mary?
> The guys of my generation who go round dressed like Kenneth Williams in "Carry on Camping".
> 
> And god forbid you ever get stuck with one of them, because you discover that they really are sad, boring assclowns of the very worst kind.
> 
> My point is, when I was in my late teens people of my generation weren't like that. People wanted to have fun, they laughed, they joked.....they LIVED! In flares admittedly.....but we all have to put our hands up to that one.
> 
> So how did this generation turn into such a pitiful bunch of whingers who dress up in the sort of attire that we laughed at 40 years ago? Where did it all go wrong?


Don't see that happening!!!!


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## bob_bob

You do see a few 'Mike Reid' type blokes at night too, couldn't afford the gold chains in the 80's so wear them now with a nice Pringle golfing sweater often to be found propping up some Brit bar praising Thatcher and slamming the labour party and benefit scroungers. "You new ere ma son, best flucking breakfaast and Sunday roast on the costa, every day of the week, flucking hansum nosh."


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## Solwriter

All this talk actually makes me glad I don't live on the Costas (which is a bonus, as I often wish I lived there - if only for more things going on).

But the worst we see in our neck of the mountains are a few English tourists staying in one of the rented houses (and experiencing _the Real Spain_, lol!).

These are the type who wander the walkway in t-shirts, shorts and sandals in February and in summer soon have hides like rhinos from literally baking in the sun.
But they are harmless and usually very well behaved, so, apart from their clothing, they provide very little interest for the neighbours.


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## mrypg9

brocher said:


> Mary, I was just reading that there is a Saturday morning market at the Bullring - main road, just above Banus and under N Andalucia when looking at a map, if that makes any sense!
> 
> Supposed to be good quality, but cheap designer stuff. I've never been, might just be cheap knock off - or you might find your alternative TK Maxx!


My dil, an equally keen 'posh' stuff at cheapo prices addict, goes to that market when she makes her frequent visits and buys loads of t-shirts, shorts, summer dresses, that kind of thing.
I doubt it's real designer stuff, more likely to be cheap knock-off ..but so what? 
My son has a Rolex...and a fake he bought in Hong Kong. You can't tell the two apart. Same with designer jeans and so on.
Most of it is 'wear one season then throw away' stuff anyway.
I know my designer label hang-up is silly -I get told often enough - but it's harmless.

XTreme...I was about to describe some of the delectable males I've seen on my trips out but decided not to as I might have caused too much offence.
I went to a cocktail party at a local posh hotel a few weeks back and there were several 'mature' men, many with young, blonde, tanned women, who seemed alike enough to form a 'type': blazer, shirt undone revealing gold chain, paunch hanging over well-cut jeans, Gucci loafers...
There seems also to be a set of people who go from free party to party, half-pissed, knowing everybody but friends with no-one.

Mike Reid: my son and dil took me to a restaurant ten or so years ago...and who should be dining there but Mike Reid. Outside was parked a shiny new Rolls with the number plate M1Wag0n. Said it all.

My dil who flies a lot uses the VIP Lounge at Malaga Airport and has been in close proximity to Victoria Beckham, Rod Stewart plus leggy blonde, Nancy D'Olio with entourage and a guy who had a part in 'Crossroads' (anyone remember that?)

Ah the joys of Costa living...but Sol, it's quite possible to find a place on the Costa which is peaceful, comparatively unspoilt and (dare I say it??) is actually Spain.
As you can see from the photos I posted a while back.

But I think we were really lucky to find this spot which could so easily have been transformed had the building boom continued.


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## Alcalaina

mrypg9 said:


> Which reminds me...Have you come across a book 'The Emperor of Lies' by Steve Sem-Sandburg?


Not until now - just read the reviews. It doesn't exactly look like a bundle of laughs. Have you read it?

I haven't bought any novels since I got my beBook. There is masses of good stuff available to download free, including recent Spanish literature, and OH buys lots of non-fiction so I have enough reading matter to last for years. 

I don't pay for music these days either. I would only buy a CD direct from the artist. I have some neat software that records streaming sound and converts it to MP3.

I don't feel guilty because I must have spent thousands on books and CDs over the years, boosting the profits of the publishers and recording companies, so now I am _sin recursos_, they can start subsidising me!


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## mrypg9

Alcalaina said:


> Not until now - just read the reviews. It doesn't exactly look like a bundle of laughs. Have you read it?
> 
> I haven't bought any novels since I got my beBook. There is masses of good stuff available to download free, including recent Spanish literature, and OH buys lots of non-fiction so I have enough reading matter to last for years.
> 
> I don't pay for music these days either. I would only buy a CD direct from the artist. I have some neat software that records streaming sound and converts it to MP3.
> 
> I don't feel guilty because I must have spent thousands on books and CDs over the years, boosting the profits of the publishers and recording companies, so now I am _sin recursos_, they can start subsidising me!



I wish I were as hi-tech as you... I get my family to give CDs as presents or I buy used.
I love the actual 'feel' of 'real' books... Because paperbacks often fall apart in the heat I'm replacing some of the more 'important' ones with good used hardbacks from amazon.
We have a book-case lined room we rather pretentiously refer to as The Library with forty years of our accumulated books.....I have made my dil swear that she won't let philistine son burn them all if I get mown down by a runaway donkey..

I'll pm you about 'The Emperor'..etc.


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## Solwriter

Alcalaina said:


> Not until now - just read the reviews. It doesn't exactly look like a bundle of laughs. Have you read it?
> 
> I haven't bought any novels since I got my beBook. There is masses of good stuff available to download free, including recent Spanish literature, and OH buys lots of non-fiction so I have enough reading matter to last for years.
> 
> I don't pay for music these days either. I would only buy a CD direct from the artist. I have some neat software that records streaming sound and converts it to MP3.
> 
> I don't feel guilty because I must have spent thousands on books and CDs over the years, boosting the profits of the publishers and recording companies, so now I am _sin recursos_, they can start subsidising me!


I hate to say this but.... a very similar argument is used by those who come to Spain and try to claim UK benefits they are not entitled to out here, their argument being that they have paid in for years and have claimed very little back.....

The result is that some forum regulars will often give them a very stern response.

But...
I'm not going to give you a stern response about this. 

I have a Kindle, mainly because we ran out of decent books in English to buy at the local car boot (and reading Spanish is all very fine and good... but not when you want to relax with a good thriller!) and because we too had run out of space for any more actual books!

As you say, there is masses of reading material to download for free and, in any case, many will find a way to get free ebook novels that really should cost money.
My excuse for doing this is that ebooks often cost a fair bit more than paperbacks, but the novels are often transferred to ebook format with very little care to detail. So publishers putting novels onto ebook format are often, in my opinion, taking the proverbial.
But I know this is really an excuse...


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## Alcalaina

Solwriter said:


> I hate to say this but.... a very similar argument is used by those who come to Spain and try to claim UK benefits they are not entitled to out here, their argument being that they have paid in for years and have claimed very little back.....
> 
> The result is that some forum regulars will often give them a very stern response.
> 
> But...
> I'm not going to give you a stern response about this.
> 
> I have a Kindle, mainly because we ran out of decent books in English to buy at the local car boot (and reading Spanish is all very fine and good... but not when you want to relax with a good thriller!) and because we too had run out of space for any more actual books!
> 
> As you say, there is masses of reading material to download for free and, in any case, many will find a way to get free ebook novels that really should cost money.
> My excuse for doing this is that ebooks often cost a fair bit more than paperbacks, but the novels are often transferred to ebook format with very little care to detail. So publishers putting novels onto ebook format are often, in my opinion, taking the proverbial.
> But I know this is really an excuse...


I hear what you´re saying, but (a) as far as I know I'm not breaking any laws, and (b) it's a case of free downloads or nothing, because I no longer have the money to pay for them. I don't really see any difference between listening to a song 20 times on YouTube, and making a copy so I can play it 20 times offline. I'm not passing them on.

I was working in publishing when they started putting material online and sat in on some interesting discussions about pricing policy. Even then it was clear that the customers and the authors were never going to benefit financially from the new technologies. It's no wonder that so many authors are now bypassing commercial publishers and publishing online directly; commercial publishers have shot themselves in the foot.

I am reading an excellent thriller at the moment: El Juego del Ángel by Carlos Ruiz Záfon. Available free here: El juego del ángel – Carlos Ruiz Zafón | epubgratis.net | ePub: eBooks con estilo | Libros gratis en español | iPad. iPhone. iPod. Papyre. Sony Reader. Kindle. Nook.


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## thrax

XTreme said:


> You know what I find most disturbing Mary?
> The guys of my generation who go round dressed like Kenneth Williams in "Carry on Camping".
> 
> And god forbid you ever get stuck with one of them, because you discover that they really are sad, boring assclowns of the very worst kind.
> 
> My point is, when I was in my late teens people of my generation weren't like that. People wanted to have fun, they laughed, they joked.....they LIVED! In flares admittedly.....but we all have to put our hands up to that one.
> 
> So how did this generation turn into such a pitiful bunch of whingers who dress up in the sort of attire that we laughed at 40 years ago? Where did it all go wrong?


Only when I larf........ Stop it Xtreme or I'll be forced into buying you a drink. Oh you are naughty.....

BTW I hate designer labels. Always have done and always will. Still a hippy at heart but don't have the hair to go with it....


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## jojo

It seems to me that most of the known designer labels have been taken over by chavs anyway lol!!

Jo xxx


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## XTreme

thrax said:


> Still a hippy at heart but don't have the hair to go with it....


You'll get on well with Stravinsky then thrax! He's another old hippie!

But it's a sad story with him really.....he listened to so much ELP, Yes, Floyd etc it turned him into a right pussy.....

****************


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## mrypg9

jojo said:


> It seems to me that most of the known designer labels have been taken over by chavs anyway lol!!
> 
> Jo xxx


It's mainly Burberry so far....they have abandoned their traditional check design because it was so popular with 'undesirables'.

But there are a couple of men's labels that have become popular with hoi polloi.

Or so I am told..


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## XTreme

Like old times Jo?


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## Pesky Wesky

jojo said:


> It seems to me that most of the known designer labels have been taken over by chavs anyway lol!!
> 
> Jo xxx


Well, we have our own resident chav then - Mary!!


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## jojo

XTreme said:


> Like old times Jo?


 Well you cant post *"that" *- you know you cant !!!!!

Jo xxx


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## XTreme

jojo said:


> Well you cant post *"that" *- you know you cant !!!!!
> 
> Jo xxx


So that subject is out of the question then? 

But I didn't listen to hippy music.....it doesn't apply to me!


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## xabiaxica

XTreme said:


> You'll get on well with Stravinsky then thrax! He's another old hippie!
> 
> But it's a sad story with him really.....he listened to so much ELP, Yes, Floyd etc it turned him into a right pussy.....
> 
> ****************


sometimes I just love being a mod & seeing what was deleted


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## XTreme

xabiachica said:


> sometimes I just love being a mod & seeing what was deleted


And I notice you not disagreeing with it Lynn?


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## mrypg9

Pesky Wesky said:


> Well, we have our own resident chav then - Mary!!


Hmm.. I must admit to having worn a baseball cap....albeit with Calvin Klein logo...

But OH has said I look silly....

Where do you get those straw hats you see farm workers wearing? I refuse to pay 50 euros plus in Cortes Ingles but I don't want to wear the kind of hat you used to see on donkeys in seaside postcards.


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## Alcalaina

mrypg9 said:


> Hmm.. I must admit to having worn a baseball cap....albeit with Calvin Klein logo...
> 
> But OH has said I look silly....
> 
> Where do you get those straw hats you see farm workers wearing? I refuse to pay 50 euros plus in Cortes Ingles but I don't want to wear the kind of hat you used to see on donkeys in seaside postcards.


They sell them in the agricultural supplies shop here, along with those wonderful waterproof wide-brimmed leather ones they wear in winter.

But I'm sure you could find a friendly _campesino_ who would swap his sombrero for your CK baseball cap.


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