# Documentation-What Next



## dstarkey (Jan 4, 2013)

Hi everyone, I've been in Spain since last June and registered for Empadronamiento and NIE, these were for three months but have expired now. Since then, I've been to and from the UK on numerous occasions and also changed my address here in VLC, due to the owner of the property selling up and moving to Italy!

I now have a GB vehicle here and was recently stopped by the police, on the only day I had forgotten my driver documents, (I remove my driving licence, V5 and passport from the vehicle every night) the police impounded my vehicle and during the process of me jumping through the hoops to get it back I had to pay 600€ in tax.

I wondered if I need to renew my documentation or is there a way of reverting back to tourist status to avoid registering onto Spanish driving plates. Or maybe that now my papers have expired and I only came back to Spain again in November, perhaps I am actually a tourist afterall?

Help with a confusing mudlle would be much appreciated.


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## samthemainman (Aug 15, 2012)

Confused - when you first registered did you just sign up for a NIE without residencia? If you want to stay you need to register. Your NIE will stay the same but if you can show your proof of income/healthcare etc. you will be able to be 'resident' indefinitely. It's not clear from your mail what your intentions are - if you're going to keep your car here you will need it insured on a Spanish policy, for it to be rematriculated etc.

If you do want to stay in Spain, I recommend you keep everything above board... Otherwise there are all sorts of consequences for you, your healthcare entitlement, tax etc. Yes you can keep resetting the 90 day clock by popping in and out of the country, but that doesn't remove you of your Spanish tax obligations....

More info please


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## dstarkey (Jan 4, 2013)

Hi Sam,

I was here looking at setting up a business, however it relies heavily upon the tourist trade, which only kicks in in earnest in April, so in the meantime as a PGCE qualified teacher looking at teaching. I also begin a college educational course next month,so will briefly be classed as a student.

If neither are successful, then it'll be back to the UK, so nothing is set in stone. Therefore I am without any income, have no proof of employment nor healthcare, but living off the proceeds from the sale of one of my UK houses. Banked safely in the UK.

Both my NIE and 'Padro state three months but have expired, so wondering if I am obliged by law to change my plates if I am resident at all, or tourist or even student?

Thanks.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

dstarkey said:


> Hi Sam,
> 
> I was here looking at setting up a business, however it relies heavily upon the tourist trade, which only kicks in in earnest in April, so in the meantime as a PGCE qualified teacher looking at teaching. I also begin a college educational course next month,so will briefly be classed as a student.
> 
> ...


the NIE number doesn't expire - but the cert does - as does the padrón cert

basically though, yes, if you're here 90 days you are classed as resident & you do have to register as such, providing proof of income/funds & healthcare provision - & also you have to re-matriculate your car


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## samthemainman (Aug 15, 2012)

Yep exactly - the car situation is probably the most challenging as most UK insurers only grant up to 90 days green card cover too. Rematriculation etc is costly but you may have no other option...


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## dstarkey (Jan 4, 2013)

xabiachica said:


> the NIE number doesn't expire - but the cert does - as does the padrón cert
> 
> basically though, yes, if you're here 90 days you are classed as resident & you do have to register as such, providing proof of income/funds & healthcare provision - & also you have to re-matriculate your car



Thanks xabiachica, but I don't follow, NIE doesn't expire but cert does?

Also, I'm not employed or have an income so will that mean a bank statement?

Any pointers to healthcare appreciated too.


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## dstarkey (Jan 4, 2013)

samthemainman said:


> Yep exactly - the car situation is probably the most challenging as most UK insurers only grant up to 90 days green card cover too. Rematriculation etc is costly but you may have no other option...



The vehicle was brought over end of November by a man with a trailer but I have no invoice, anyvan.com

So how can I show my 90 day commencement?

I understand that my local Traffic Office will supply temporary plates to enable me to drive to the ITV test centre, and afterwards I go back with the completed test papers to exchange plates to full regular ES ones.

I also understand that everything about the vehicle must be standard so my fused hard wired sat-nav must be removed.

I've heard the fee varies upto two grand and that afterwards I will re-insure.


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

dstarkey said:


> Thanks xabiachica, but I don't follow, NIE doesn't expire but cert does?
> 
> Also, I'm not employed or have an income so will that mean a bank statement?
> 
> Any pointers to healthcare appreciated too.


The NIE/NIF number stays with you for life. If you have obtained a temporary one, then the authorities will expect you to renew it using the 'residencia route'. Basically, if you have to show someone your NIE paperwork after the three-month period, then they may not accept it as it (the piece of paper) will have expired.

This is exactly the same as for the padron. Your padron (typically) stays with you forever but if you need to show it, then the paperwork on which it's printed must be no more than 3 months old.


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## dstarkey (Jan 4, 2013)

ha ha, now I understand.

Thanks snikpoh


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## xicoalc (Apr 20, 2010)

dstarkey said:


> The vehicle was brought over end of November by a man with a trailer but I have no invoice, anyvan.com
> 
> So how can I show my 90 day commencement?
> 
> ...


 it's always difficult to prove when a car was brought into the country but at the end of the day if you cannot prove the 90 day thing then your insurance company may well refuse to pay out in the event of a claim and if this is the case then in the event of an accident you could also be done for driving with no insurance so either way you really need to get the car changed as soon as possible.

If you have the car here and it's currently still legal then you do not need to get temporary plates to take it for its ITV. Likewise, the process is not quite as simple simply having an ITV test done and then exchanging the plates.

There are several posts on here they give a step-by-step account and indeed I have posted them in the past so have a read up!


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

I’m not too sure what tax you say that you’ve paid amounting to 600€? Does that mean that you have started the registration process?

Have you applied to DVLA for the exportation documents yet?

I am fairly sure that when you do, you will be able to retroactively declare the export date as 30th November (reflecting reality so not posing a problem for any criminally false declaration) and which could possibly then be used as evidence for the date on which you brought the vehicle to Spain.

As for the cost of importing, I suggest you get a gestor to help as it can depend on many factors, including how long you have owned the car prior to moving country, I am not sure of all these factors though, as steve in spain says, there is detailed info somewhere on here.

With respect to the vehicle needing to be standard, this is true to a large extent as a result of the “anti-tuning law” which came into force last year. I am in a classic car club and we have had several in depth conversations about the effects of these new rules. I have tried to read through the new rules and its not easy reading, but I’m fairly sure that if you haven’t modified the dash board radically or obscured any of the original instruments you’ll probably be OK. I have fused wired chargers with phone holders mounted on the dash in both of my cars and no comment has ever been made by ITV testers.


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## dstarkey (Jan 4, 2013)

steve_in_spain said:


> ...
> 
> There are several posts on here they give a step-by-step account and indeed I have posted them in the past so have a read up!


Thanks for the post Steve, I'll have a look through.


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## wiggytheone (Dec 3, 2012)

samthemainman said:


> Confused - when you first registered did you just sign up for a NIE without residencia? If you want to stay you need to register. Your NIE will stay the same but if you can show your proof of income/healthcare etc. you will be able to be 'resident' indefinitely. It's not clear from your mail what your intentions are - if you're going to keep your car here you will need it insured on a Spanish policy, for it to be rematriculated etc.
> 
> If you do want to stay in Spain, I recommend you keep everything above board... Otherwise there are all sorts of consequences for you, your healthcare entitlement, tax etc. Yes you can keep resetting the 90 day clock by popping in and out of the country, but that doesn't remove you of your Spanish tax obligations....
> 
> More info please



:clap2:


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## xicoalc (Apr 20, 2010)

Overandout said:


> I’m not too sure what tax you say that you’ve paid amounting to 600€? Does that mean that you have started the registration process?
> 
> Have you applied to DVLA for the exportation documents yet?
> 
> I am fairly sure that when you do, you will be able to retroactively declare the export date as 30th November (reflecting reality so not posing a problem for any criminally false declaration) and which could possibly then be used as evidence for the date on which you brought the vehicle to Spain.


If you go down that route the car is OFF ROAD until registered in another country so the car would not be insured.


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## gus-lopez (Jan 4, 2010)

Yes Steve is right there. As soon as you register it as for permanent export the registration number is withdrawn from circulation !!


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## chrisnation (Mar 2, 2009)

*NIE/Pardron: The Movie?*

So, 4 times in every 12 months, ad infinitum, these two bits of paper, which contain info that will never change, must be renewed? 

Is there any class of ex-pat or any circumstance where this ridiculosity does not apply?




snikpoh said:


> The NIE/NIF number stays with you for life. If you have obtained a temporary one, then the authorities will expect you to renew it using the 'residencia route'. Basically, if you have to show someone your NIE paperwork after the three-month period, then they may not accept it as it (the piece of paper) will have expired.
> 
> This is exactly the same as for the padron. Your padron (typically) stays with you forever but if you need to show it, then the paperwork on which it's printed must be no more than 3 months old.


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## xicoalc (Apr 20, 2010)

chrisnation said:


> So, 4 times in every 12 months, ad infinitum, these two bits of paper, which contain info that will never change, must be renewed?
> 
> Is there any class of ex-pat or any circumstance where this ridiculosity does not apply?


 I think people are getting a little bit confused here about these papers. When you are issued with your NIE it is permanent. In some situations if you are asked to present your certificates then the original certificate may not be adequate and they may ask for one dated within the last three months.

When you apply for residency – assuming you apply for and are granted permanent residency then your certificate is again valid for life. My certificate is in my old address and was last issued in 2008 or 2009 and still remains valid and indeed is used whenever necessary at the appropriate authorities. I back up my change of address by showing my Padron. I will be (when I get time) updating my address on my residency certificate but it's just one of those things that I have not yet got round to doing and certainly is not something that has been requested of me even when I have been stopped by the police in the car etc.

The padron again is something that once you register with your local town hall you are on the register. You do not need to report to them every three months in order to tell them that you still live there – it's a little bit like the electoral roll but once you are on it you remain on it until you move. If you move then you can either deregister and then register again in your new town hall or as happened with me when I went to register at the new town hall they told me that they would make contact with my previous local authorities to remove me from the register.

I never going to get another padron except in certain circumstances. For example, if you need to do something official like register with a doctor, deal with the Social Security tax offices, open a bank account or anything of this nature then you will be asked for a certificate which is less than three months old – this is just to prove that you still live at the address that you are claiming. It's a little bit like in the UK when you apply to open a bank account and they asked to see utility bill – they always ask to see one that is less than three months old. Acquiring a new copy of the certificate is usually just a two-minute job and when I need one I pop into my local town hall and I'm never kept waiting I just ask them for a copy of the certificate they ask me the reason why and in the print another one with that data on and duly apply their rubberstamp and signature.

So to clarify when you are issued with your NIE number this remains with you for life. If you are granted temporary residence and of course this needs to be renewed as it expires once you have been granted indefinite residence then this is something that you do not actually need to renew and you would only need to apply for a new certificate in the event of somebody asking to see one that is dated less than three months old which is something that has never been asked of me. The electoral roll (Padron) is exactly the same however with this you are more likely to be asked for an up-to-date one when dealing with certain businesses or authorities.


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## chrisnation (Mar 2, 2009)

_"I think people are getting a little bit confused here about these papers."_ You bet! But thanks for your succinct explanation, Steve.

The one thing that has been puzzling me as far as bank accounts are concerned is that when I had a spell in Malaga - no more than a few weeks in 2005 - working for a guy who ran what was, in essence, a cold-calling operation to UK corporations, he got me a bank account with Caixa Galicia [as was] just by rocking up to the bank and he and I filling in bank forms. No paperwork from any government offices was involved.

A couple of months ago I called the London office [of whatever this bank is now called after a spell of mergers] and was told that my account, after 6-7 years of zero activity by me, was still "live" and viable.

Strange but true


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## gus-lopez (Jan 4, 2010)

chrisnation said:


> _"
> A couple of months ago I called the London office [of whatever this bank is now called after a spell of mergers] and was told that my account, after 6-7 years of zero activity by me, was still "live" and viable.
> 
> Strange but true_


_

This is because it has been sitting there racking up maintenance charges for 6-7 years + interest+overdraft charges , etc; etc; Etc just waiting for you to return !! 

:rofl: :rofl:_


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## chrisnation (Mar 2, 2009)

*Charge!*

It's true that I do owe them about Eu15. I thought it would be more but maybe this mob are light on charges.

But note that I got this account up and running without a single piece of beaurocratic 'docamenti'.

Does anyone have a notion about how this could have happened?




gus-lopez said:


> This is because it has been sitting there racking up maintenance charges for 6-7 years + interest+overdraft charges , etc; etc; Etc just waiting for you to return !!
> 
> :rofl: :rofl:


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