# UK Bank uses Forged Signature to secure Judgement



## Average_Guy (Oct 1, 2012)

A London based Bank has used a forged document to secure a judgement against me in Abu Dhabi.

As the document was forged in London, I am told that even if the forensic department prove the forgery, the Bank cannot be prosecuted as they will claim the "forgery " was done in London and has to be dealt with in the English Jurisdiction.

Secondly the court action against me in Abu Dhabi is based on transactions, documents and dealing in London and nothing to do with UAE. Yet the UAE Branch of the Bank claim they are allowed to bring an action against me on behalf of their London Bank.

The London based Bank did not take me to court in London as the documents were incomplete / inadmissible / time-barred, and 2 documents have been tampered with ( forged signatures) because they would have been dismissed, yet they chose Abu Dhabi as their preferred Jurisdiction and secured judgement and we had our entire defence argument dismissed. ( It maybe that our Lawyer was useless, or simply that it is the "Norm" for Big Banks to Win regardless, really don't know)

Looks like we are snookered, and looks like the Supreme Court hearing will also be a formality and a waste of time !

I am told Big Banks never lose a case in UAE, does anyone know of anyone (minnow like me) winning against a Bank in the UAE..................in the meantime it looks like "Porridge" in an Oven Baked hole is my destiny !

Try not to be judgemental, for obvious reasons I cannot state all the facts here, all I can say is that the Bank has "form" when it comes to "Forged Signatures" !


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## Gavtek (Aug 23, 2009)

Did you commit the crime?


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## saraswat (Apr 28, 2012)

Indeed sorry to hear about your circumstances.. Big banks almost always don't loose everywhere in the world. Top-notch lawyers, virtually unlimited budget.. just makes for a Herculean task to overcome.. I have read about people having better luck in the tribunals setup like DIFC, not sure though if the bank was a direct defendant (the details of the cases are always shrouded)... good luck..


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## Average_Guy (Oct 1, 2012)

*Can Banks in UAE use Forged Documents as evidence in Courts ?*

Courts in UAE accept photocopied documents, after sending their "official" to the bank to confirm they match with the originals.

The courts usually deny a defendant's request in court to see the original document for forgery, simply because they do not have time, they have targets to meet !

Once the case is judged in favour of the Bank, the forged original can be destroyed.

It is called "swift justice" where the Shark prevails and the Minnow dies.

Is this true in the UAE, has anyone ever heard of a Big Bank loose in court ?

Is it worth defending a case against a big bank; the only winners are your lawyers...financially ! And of course the court fees department.

Is there anyone out there who has ever won against Big Bank ( Brother) ?


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## Canuck_Sens (Nov 16, 2010)

Some banks are run by influential families.....you may infer


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## EddieE (Sep 15, 2012)

Gavtek said:


> Did you commit the crime?


What has that got to with anything? If a bank is using false information to get someone prosecuted then it is plainly wrong.


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## Gavtek (Aug 23, 2009)

From a personal point of view, I'd like to know if he's trying to circumvent the law to get out of being prosecuted for fraudulent activity, or if he's a victim of a miscarriage of justice before I decide whether I want to help or not.


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## ccr (Jun 20, 2010)

Gavtek said:


> ...I'd like to know if he's trying to circumvent the law to get out of being prosecuted for fraudulent activity...


And if (hypothetically) he is, there is a high chance that he would not admit that he was trying to circumvent the law...


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## Gavtek (Aug 23, 2009)

ccr said:


> And if (hypothetically) he is, there is a high chance that he would not admit that he was trying to circumvent the law...


Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity.


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## ccr (Jun 20, 2010)

Gavtek said:


> Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity.


Fair enough... 

Regardless, this discussion about the bank and "swift justice process" (if all true) is disturbing.


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## Average_Guy (Oct 1, 2012)

Neither the court nor the bank will let us see the original document ! We are only allowed to see the photocopy of the document submitted to the court.

Now that judgement has been passed in favour of the bank, the bank will shred the original with the forged signature !

Another "Minnow" hits the dust !

By the way what does "circumvent " mean ?


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## Gavtek (Aug 23, 2009)

This perp thought he could get away with writing phony cheques, but the only thing that will be bouncing is himself, to the slammer.


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## Average_Guy (Oct 1, 2012)

Where do "Cheques" comes into all this ? There are no "Cheques" involved in this case. Is there any mention of cheques in this thread ? Just documents forged by the bank, the photocopies have been confirmed as forged by an independent handwriting expert ! The bank and court refuse to hand over the original document for scrutiny !

Nevermind, you can be judgemental, if that makes your day.


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## EddieE (Sep 15, 2012)

Average_Guy said:


> Where do "Cheques" comes into all this ? There are no "Cheques" involved in this case. Is there any mention of cheques in this thread ? Just documents forged by the bank, the photocopies have been confirmed as forged by an independent handwriting expert ! The bank and court refuse to hand over the original document for scrutiny !
> 
> Nevermind, you can be judgemental, if that makes your day.


People who assume and are judgemental while knowing nothing.

Makes my day


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## m1key (Jun 29, 2011)

I think what Gav is getting at is that after 2 pages you're still avoiding his question of have you done anything wrong? If you have, then despite banks forging things being wrong, he has little sympathy.

Personally I'm not sure of the point of your post in the first place. You are accusing a bank of wrong doing and the courts of assisting them. Do we agree with you that the banks and courts are bad without knowing the facts? If you're not prepared to answer any questions how can we form an informed opinion and discuss


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## Canuck_Sens (Nov 16, 2010)

I find funny that you are looking for legal advise in this forum. We are not lawyers. And it is hard to suggest something useful to you. As you can see I won't speculate. 

Try to get a good lawyer or have a chat with your Embassy.


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## Average_Guy (Oct 1, 2012)

Lawyers say that the bank will claim forgery was done in London, so there is no crime committed here. 

As it is a civil case and judgement has been passed, neither court nor bank is obliged to give access to the forged document.

So my experience and understanding is effectively banks can present forged documents here without any recourse.

RBS and Natwest were notorious for forgeries, their excuse is they are merely "recreating" agreements ! It is all on the net, so nothing new there, but my case does not involve either parties.

In my case it is just a case of forum shopping by the bank which chooses the best Jurisdiction to obtain judgement in their favour in any dispute that would otherwise be challenged in England. In UAE Banks win nearly 100% of any dispute between Bank and Customer, and in England it is currently about 50 / 50 ! So the Big Banks are flocking to the UAE to settle any dispute, as there bank regulation is slanted towards banks with very recourse for customers !


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## Average_Guy (Oct 1, 2012)

Canuck_Sens said:


> I find funny that you are looking for legal advise in this forum. We are not lawyers. And it is hard to suggest something useful to you. As you can see I won't speculate.
> 
> Try to get a good lawyer or have a chat with your Embassy.


Sorry to bore you Canuck.


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## Laowei (Nov 29, 2009)

Average_Guy said:


> Sorry to bore you Canuck.


To be fair he is trying too help you and has a valid point that no one can give advise based on your avoidance of giving more details of what the original issue is and side stepping every question related to it. If you want advise that is pertinet to you issue and may help you with your problem then you really have to be more forthcoming with backgraound and details.


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## Average_Guy (Oct 1, 2012)

Laowei said:


> To be fair he is trying too help you and has a valid point that no one can give advise based on your avoidance of giving more details of what the original issue is and side stepping every question related to it. If you want advise that is pertinet to you issue and may help you with your problem then you really have to be more forthcoming with background and details.


My comment to Canuck was meant to offend, and as he hasn't responded, I assume he is not offended, but it appears you are.

My thread simply states that it appears to be acceptable to use forged documents in the UAE to strengthen their position to resolve a dispute, even though it appears mafia like and heavy handed.

And then there are two responses to that, the first group of people like yourself who appear to sympathize with the banks abuse of power if you perceive that the party they are litigating against is guilty.

And then the other group of people think it is morally wrong to allow banks to used forged documents in any circumstances period.

There really is not more to add, after the forum is not here to discuss the merits of the case !


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## m1key (Jun 29, 2011)

No one has sympathised with banks or yourself. Are you a politician? You evade every question.

What is the point of this thread? is it to inform? If so please provide some facts. Is it for advice? If so please post some facts. There is so far nothing to comment on apart from your evasiveness!


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## Laowei (Nov 29, 2009)

Average_Guy said:


> My comment to Canuck was meant to offend, and as he hasn't responded, I assume he is not offended, but it appears you are.
> 
> My thread simply states that it appears to be acceptable to use forged documents in the UAE to strengthen their position to resolve a dispute, even though it appears mafia like and heavy handed.
> 
> ...


Er sorry where did you get the fact im offended from my short post or the fact i side with the banks? please point this out to me as i am struggling to see it. Reading and understanding the written word is clearly not your strong point.

Seems pal you have a bit of a chip on your shoulder and as we all havent come out waving a 'burn the bankers' banner we all obviousley support them. So following your logic you make a statement against the banks forging your signature ( are you sure its not your signature and you just read it wrong?) and we all have to come out in your support based on one side of a story, even though you constantly circumvent** giving any further details?

Try reading what posters are saying to you before you get on your high horse and casting assersions. 

** Circumvent | Define Circumvent at Dictionary.com


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## Canuck_Sens (Nov 16, 2010)

Hi,

I had not responded until now because I just read your comment. I am not sure whether you had the intention to say "duhh sorry to bore you " or if you really meant "oops I am boring that guy" and the rest...

Since I usually do not take comments made from a personal perspective (unless clearly emotional) your thread is plain ridiculous and at the same time funny.

You are sounding off that... it appears that the judiciary system in the UAE accepts forged documents. What are you trying to achieve ? Give us a heads up ? ok... Or are you ranting and sulking because you are the one getting hammered here not us.

Your issue is that your are mad with the bank for going after you. Secondly you are upset because in your view the legal system accepted a forged document. You need a damn good lawyer or luck. If you really do believe you are being treated unfairly which I think you do CALL THE PRESS!!!!!have your say or call the Central Bank of the UAE or call the Embassy (forged documents is a damn serious thing!)

Or you just want us know how unfair things are here ? Fair enough. I think we all appreciate the heads up.

Anyhow, if things turn alright to you..please do post how you managed to prove to the UAE system that the document was forged. Forensics ?




Average_Guy said:


> My comment to Canuck was meant to offend, and as he hasn't responded, I assume he is not offended, but it appears you are.
> 
> My thread simply states that it appears to be acceptable to use forged documents in the UAE to strengthen their position to resolve a dispute, even though it appears mafia like and heavy handed.
> 
> ...


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## Average_Guy (Oct 1, 2012)

Canuck_Sens said:


> Hi,
> 
> I had not responded until now because I just read your comment. I am not sure whether you had the intention to say "duhh sorry to bore you " or if you really meant "oops I am boring that guy" and the rest...
> 
> ...


Apologies Canuck....I missed the all important word "NOT".....my first line should have read....."My comment to Canuck was NOT meant to offend, and as he hasn't responded, I assume he is not offended, but it appears you are."

Canuck ...Your comments are appreciated, basically I am using the forum as a "sounding board" to see if there are any pragmatic ways forward, and I do agree Media is an option, but to be fair I will not condemn a country, a people, a nation on the actions of a single Judicial Judgement, however it appears very strange that both courts and banks are so protective of "Forged Documents " presented by banks in this Jurisdiction and this undermines the very fabric of Justice in any society............and I do agree with you " forged documents are a damn serious thing" !

In this case, they are 10 year old documents which were rejected by English Courts and are now presented by the bank with an additional signature ( Same document signed by three persons instead of two individuals, the third one forged !)


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## Canuck_Sens (Nov 16, 2010)

As far as I can possibly remember, this is the first time I come across with such a thing. I don't recall reading anywhere about forged docs in this forum involving two jurisdictions.

I feel you have no choice, you might have go back to the UK. And I am not sure if you are allowed to travel. I am not sure where the "wrongdoing" was committed and whether it was or not committed which is none of my business.

If you seek legal protection I would try to change the jurisdiction because it appears that you are protected there in the UK. You need to consult an international lawyer from UK or have the good luck to find one good here which I doubt.

The problem is that you are living here..I think they have the grounds to change jurisdictions due to that, but if you were to move....they would need to go after you through UK courts. This is just a thought a lawyer could advise you better







Average_Guy said:


> Apologies Canuck.....Your comments are appreciated, basically I am using the forum as a "sounding board" to see if there are any pragmatic ways forward, and I do agree Media is an option, but to be fair I will not condemn a country, a people, a nation on the actions of a single Judicial Judgement, however it appears very strange that both courts and banks are so protective of "Forged Documents " presented by banks in this Jurisdiction and this undermines the very fabric of Justice in any society............and I do agree with you " forged documents are a damn serious thing" !
> 
> In this case, they are 10 year old documents which were rejected by English Courts and are now presented by the bank with an additional signature ( Same document signed by three persons instead of two individuals, the third one forged !)


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