# What can i do?



## littlejools (Jun 7, 2012)

Hi, just looking for a little advice, maybe from anyone who has been through something similar. 

I applied for a job a little while ago with a privately owned company. The owner of the company advertised the job as full time sales position with a salary and contract. After offering me the job he suggested a trail week to see how things went, he didn't mention whether this week would be paid or not. I worked the week but didn't produce any sales (tricky time to be selling advertising to restaurants when most of them are closed for the winter!) so he wanted to extend the week trail to two weeks, we still didn't talk about payment for time worked only that he didn't want to offer me the full time contract. At the end of the 2nd week I managed to get one sale but he still wanted to extend the trail period, so now 3 weeks. Still no discussion about payment for time worked only hesitation on awarding the full time contract. I produced 2 further sales in the 3rd week but still he dragged it out and wanted to see one final week. I had no further sales so at the end of the 4th week he decided that he didn't want to offer me the contract but instead a commission only role. I thought about this for a day and then turned him down. I contacted him via e-mail and explained my decision and asked for payment for my fuel and time worked. He refused. I e-mailed him again explaining we never discussed it and rightly or wrongly I assumed I would be paid for time worked. He refused again. I have one bargaining point, I still have a large box of professionally printed promotional material which probably cost more than what I believe he owes me. The last communication we had was me refusing to meet with him to return the materials in favour of getting advice from a gesture and reporting him to the Guardia Civil. I have been to the local Guardia with a friend to translate and they couldn't help but suggested I go to another office. At the moment I can't go as the office is only open in the morning and my friend who can translate can only do this in the evening as she works. 
What I am looking for is a way to report him to as many different authorities as possible so he doesn't string someone along like this again. I want to denounce him and report him to the local police and the local council. Can anyone suggest what measures I can take?


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

You can raise a denuncia online then go to the Policia Nacional with the reference number and they should take it from there.

https://denuncias.policia.es/OVD/


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## littlejools (Jun 7, 2012)

Ive just had a look at that but the drop down box with the selection of what you're denouncing only lists things like theft of documents, which selection should I choose? None of them seem to apply.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

littlejools said:


> Ive just had a look at that but the drop down box with the selection of what you're denouncing only lists things like theft of documents, which selection should I choose? None of them seem to apply.


I think it's OMIC you need to go to


your profile says that you're in Jávea?

if that's the case, go to the Help desk at the Portal del Clot building just up from Mercadona in the town - they speak English

OMIC is in a different building - but the ladies on the Help desk will help you


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## littlejools (Jun 7, 2012)

Ah yes, I know the building. They will be able to advise me on what I can do?


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

littlejools said:


> Ah yes, I know the building. They will be able to advise me on what I can do?


for sure - that's what they're paid for 

they aren't OMIC, but should be able to help you with that dept - there might even be an English speaker at the OMIC office


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## larryzx (Jul 2, 2014)

Alcalaina said:


> You can raise a denuncia online then go to the Policia Nacional with the reference number and they should take it from there.
> 
> https://denuncias.policia.es/OVD/


You may find this (in English) easier to understand.

Página oficial de la DGP-Denuncias Comisaría

But as you will see from the list of crimes which can reported (not civil disputes - as this case appears to be) if you know (that is often interpreted as, if have even seen) the person against whom you wish to make the denuncia (Crime Report) then you cannot do it on the telephone/on line. And even when you can the hard copy (which is in fact the crime report) can only be signed at a (any) National Police Station, and that should be within 48 hours. 

NB You actually make the report when you sign it, not when you give the info on the phone/on line..


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

I think that you should have had payment, if any, clear before you started.
I think you worked for free.
But the best place to start finding out if you did or not is xabiachica's lead.


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## littlejools (Jun 7, 2012)

Pesky Wesky said:


> I think that you should have had payment, if any, clear before you started.
> I think you worked for free.
> But the best place to start finding out if you did or not is xabiachica's lead.


We discussed the job and the salary at the interview where he said he wanted to offer me the job. Then suggested I take the weekend to think about it and that I should get in contact on the Monday with my decision. Before I had the chance, at 08:30 in the morning, he e-mailed me and said he had changed his mind. I messaged back and expressed my surprise and asked for a chance to show I had what was required. He agreed to give me a trail. It never occurred to me to ask if I would be paid and he never said it wouldn't be. And the further discussions we had, I thought, were about the salaried contract job and that he wasn't sure about giving me that. He never said that the trail was unpaid.
Your advice is not particularly constructive or helpful, in hindsight yes it would have been great if I had asked "will I be paid for this trail" but as I was applying for a full time, contracted job that question seemed unnecessary as if I had been making the amount of sales he wanted I would of course have been paid. Now I will ask that question but it doesn't do me any good regarding being taken for a ride by this guy. Any further constructive advice is welcome but should've/would've/could've is no use to me now


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

littlejools said:


> We discussed the job and the salary at the interview where he said he wanted to offer me the job. Then suggested I take the weekend to think about it and that I should get in contact on the Monday with my decision. Before I had the chance, at 08:30 in the morning, he e-mailed me and said he had changed his mind. I messaged back and expressed my surprise and asked for a chance to show I had what was required. He agreed to give me a trail. It never occurred to me to ask if I would be paid and he never said it wouldn't be. And the further discussions we had, I thought, were about the salaried contract job and that he wasn't sure about giving me that. He never said that the trail was unpaid.
> Your advice is not particularly constructive or helpful, in hindsight yes it would have been great if I had asked "will I be paid for this trail" but as I was applying for a full time, contracted job that question seemed unnecessary as if I had been making the amount of sales he wanted I would of course have been paid. Now I will ask that question but it doesn't do me any good regarding being taken for a ride by this guy. Any further constructive advice is welcome but should've/would've/could've is no use to me now


Please dont be critical of the advice you're receiving on here. No one has to answer you at atall.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing - but so is foresight

Jo


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## larryzx (Jul 2, 2014)

littlejools said:


> Any further constructive advice is welcome but should've/would've/could've is no use to me now



Sorry but I think Pesky was being constructive, however I understand you don't like what he said. 

Xabiachica’s advice also appear constructive.

If one takes a trial and does not agree there will be a payment then I think it reasonable to understand that it is a trail only, not a job and, therefore, not unreasonable to do it for free. That you worked for so long in an attempt to convince the potential employer that you were capable, might seem that you were not as good as required. 

I think you will in the end have to put it down to experience and move on.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

littlejools said:


> We discussed the job and the salary at the interview where he said he wanted to offer me the job. Then suggested I take the weekend to think about it and that I should get in contact on the Monday with my decision. Before I had the chance, at 08:30 in the morning, he e-mailed me and said he had changed his mind. I messaged back and expressed my surprise and asked for a chance to show I had what was required. He agreed to give me a trail. It never occurred to me to ask if I would be paid and he never said it wouldn't be. And the further discussions we had, I thought, were about the salaried contract job and that he wasn't sure about giving me that. He never said that the trail was unpaid.
> Your advice is not particularly constructive or helpful, in hindsight yes it would have been great if I had asked "will I be paid for this trail" but as I was applying for a full time, contracted job that question seemed unnecessary as if I had been making the amount of sales he wanted I would of course have been paid. Now I will ask that question but it doesn't do me any good regarding being taken for a ride by this guy. Any further constructive advice is welcome but should've/would've/could've is no use to me now


Understood.
Just as you are hoping that this employer won't do this again, I'm hoping potential employees won't work on a free* trial* again, but I realise that that's not you had asked for on the thread... and yes hindsight is a wonderful thing


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

larryzx said:


> Sorry but I think Pesky was being constructive, however I understand you don't like what he said.
> 
> Xabiachica’s advice also appear constructive.
> 
> ...


 however I understand you don't like what she said.


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## alborino (Dec 13, 2014)

littlejools said:


> Any further constructive advice is welcome but should've/would've/could've is no use to me now


I think you need to prove the guy was taking the proverbial to find fault here:

Was there ever a job? Did the job exist before as a permanent position? Was employing a non spanish speaker in any way defendable? Is he continuing to advertise the position?

Of course even if you can Spain is not the UK and your chances of extracting anything as a non contracted immigrant is absolutely minimal. 

Your other angle might be to pursue compensation for the sales you made. Can you calculate a commission value of these? If it is say 2000 euros of commission you could try to pressure for this in return for retained goods. 

But be very careful here and always be accompanied by a fluent spanish speaker at any meetings. 

Personally I'd move on but just my opinion


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## littlejools (Jun 7, 2012)

Yes there was a position, i was answering an advert posted on Javea Jobs Facebook page and I have all the promotional materials still to prove I worked for him and orders from some restaurants. Also he has advertised the position since I left. I am not moving on from it, I worked for a month, not a week or a day, a whole month. He owes me and I will pursue this as far as I can.


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## Dunpleecin (Dec 20, 2012)

I think even if you work a week on trial, or two or three or four, you would expect that this would be paid, having been offered a full time salaried role. In fact, the longer you worked, the more you'd think that it was paid; after all, who would work for a month without pay? It's a whole month of bills, food, transport etc. It's not like you're walking to a shop round the corner to do a bit of shop work for a week. 

By all means go through whatever procedure you feel is appropriate. But there will come a time when you realise that actually, what's the point? For everyone who does that, plenty won't and the amount it will cost in court/admin fees, time taken etc, it's probably just not worth it because the chances of getting it back, even with a judgement in your favour, are negligible.

Having not established early doors whether a trial was paid or not, proving it was would be very difficult, even given the completely one sided version you've given (not meant as a criticism, just the way it is) because even not having heard he other side, it's looking unlikely that you'd be able to prove one way or another.

You might be better just putting it down to experience, move on, and don't throw good money after bad. It's all very well doing something "Just so other people aren't fooled like me". But the fact is, millions are every day, and you aint gonna change the world.


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## alborino (Dec 13, 2014)

littlejools said:


> Yes there was a position, i was answering an advert posted on Javea Jobs Facebook page and I have all the promotional materials still to prove I worked for him and orders from some restaurants. Also he has advertised the position since I left. I am not moving on from it, I worked for a month, not a week or a day, a whole month. He owes me and I will pursue this as far as I can.


Jools I think that very much strengthens your position providing you can show that you being paid was a reasonable assumption. 

Sadly however even if you build a good case the law is not easy to get applied in Spain. The costs in getting justice will be high and the timescales extremely long (a friend of ours in Madrid waited 7 years for a straightforward case where one party accepted general liability).


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## larryzx (Jul 2, 2014)

So what happens in a case where one has a trial and are thought to have failed it? 

If the potential employer allows you to keep trying to prove you are good enough, should they be at fault and then have to pay you ? 

At what point should the applicant realise they are not acceptable and give up ?


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

I'm surprised that this isnt a commission only position. If it was, he should pay you commission on the successful sales you made????

Jo xxx


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

jojo said:


> I'm surprised that this isnt a commission only position. If it was, he should pay you commission on the successful sales you made????
> 
> Jo xxx


even if it wasn't commission only - & even though she 'failed' the trial - surely at the least she should get the commission on the sales made - at the very least


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

xabiachica said:


> even if it wasn't commission only - & even though she 'failed' the trial - surely at the least she should get the commission on the sales made - at the very least


Yes, altho sometimes these things take a while to go thru - so you never know, he might come up with some "commission"?????

Jo xxx


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

I don't doubt that some payment should have been received, I just think it's highly unlikely that if there was no agreement for that trial period, neither verbal nor written, that any payment will be made. Also it may take years to go through the courts and I imagine it will cost some, but to find out about all the ins and outs she just has to follow the advice on the thread


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Pesky Wesky said:


> I don't doubt that some payment should have been received, I just think it's highly unlikely that if there was no agreement for that trial period, neither verbal nor written, that any payment will be made. Also it may take years to go through the courts and I imagine it will cost some, but to find out about all the ins and outs she just has to follow the advice on the thread


Yes, we are speculating somewhat. I hope the OP comes back and lets us now what happens and an outcome

Jo xxx


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

littlejools said:


> Yes there was a position, i was answering an advert posted on Javea Jobs Facebook page and I have all the promotional materials still to prove I worked for him and orders from some restaurants. Also he has advertised the position since I left. I am not moving on from it, I worked for a month, not a week or a day, a whole month. He owes me and I will pursue this as far as I can.


You need to go to a lawyer who specialises in labour issues. OMIC and the police can and will do nothing here.
I have some experience of this as one of the employees of the charity I used to help run sued us for allegedly underpaying him redundancy money.
You may have to put money up front but can make costs part of your claim.

We went to court in Malaga, the whole process was fair and even-handed. We ended up the winner as we ended up paying what we thought we should.

My advice to you would be to join a trades union, CCOO perhaps. Then you will have advice and legal cover and employers might be less inclined to mess you about.

If you are anywhere near Marbella, I can recommend a good specialist lawyer who specialises in these kinds of cases.


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## oronero (Aug 24, 2012)

littlejools said:


> I had no further sales so at the end of the 4th week he decided that he didn't want to offer me the contract but instead a commission only role. I thought about this for a day and then turned him down. I contacted him via e-mail and explained my decision and asked for payment for my fuel and time worked. He refused. I e-mailed him again explaining we never discussed it and rightly or wrongly I assumed I would be paid for time worked. He refused again. I have one bargaining point, I still have a large box of professionally printed promotional material which probably cost more than what I believe he owes me. The last communication we had was me refusing to meet with him to return the materials in favour of getting advice from a gesture and reporting him to the Guardia Civil. I have been to the local Guardia with a friend to translate and they couldn't help but suggested I go to another office. At the moment I can't go as the office is only open in the morning and my friend who can translate can only do this in the evening as she works.
> What I am looking for is a way to report him to as many different authorities as possible so he doesn't string someone along like this again. I want to denounce him and report him to the local police and the local council. Can anyone suggest what measures I can take?


Good luck with getting some form of commission for the adverts that you did generate, I have been in a similar predicament a few years ago in the UK and got nothing.

Take care that the holding of their 'printed matter' cannot be construed as a form of extortion for monies.


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## alborino (Dec 13, 2014)

oronero said:


> I have been in a similar predicament a few years ago in the UK and got nothing.


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## larryzx (Jul 2, 2014)

oops! Error, deleted by me as a dual post


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## larryzx (Jul 2, 2014)

oronero said:


> Take care that the holding of their 'printed matter' cannot be construed as a form of extortion for monies.


Very good point, might even be grounds for 'them' to make a denunicia against you for theft. In your position I would return it at once.


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## Horlics (Sep 27, 2011)

It would seem reasonable that you should be paid the commission on the sales you made. If in your position I would use that as the basis for a claim.

If I didn't get anywhere with it, I would give up. It would be painful to go through this in the UK and I have no idea if it's any easier or more difficult in Spain, but unless there is a significant amount of money involved, it probably wouldn't be worth the expense and trouble.

I would then sleep a little more soundly at night knowing that i'd learned another of life's lessons and that there's one less way in which I might be ripped off in future.

If you're determined to keep going with this, follow the advice above about seeing a lawyer with specialist knowledge.


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## Dunpleecin (Dec 20, 2012)

Horlics said:


> It would seem reasonable that you should be paid the commission on the sales you made. If in your position I would use that as the basis for a claim.
> 
> If I didn't get anywhere with it, I would give up. It would be painful to go through this in the UK and I have no idea if it's any easier or more difficult in Spain, but unless there is a significant amount of money involved, it probably wouldn't be worth the expense and trouble.
> 
> ...


In the UK it's pretty easy to make a small claim online, with little or no evidence. Just a summary of the situation is often enough to get someone to pay up. Even if they don't pay up there's a pretty good enforcement system letting you do it. But in Spain, I don't know whether this is the case, but from what I see, I suspect it's not which is why I've suggested not throwing good money after bad.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Dunpleecin said:


> In the UK it's pretty easy to make a small claim online, with little or no evidence. Just a summary of the situation is often enough to get someone to pay up. Even if they don't pay up there's a pretty good enforcement system letting you do it. But in Spain, I don't know whether this is the case, but from what I see, I suspect it's not which is why I've suggested not throwing good money after bad.


Not that good in the UK either. You may win a claim...but it's up to you to chase it up if the person owing you won't pay. More court time, more expense if bailiffs are involved.


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