# USA Without a Visa (Illegal!)



## tigerpoeton (May 5, 2010)

Hi Guys, 

Let me start by saying this is all information I am aquiring for a friend not myself!

Ok Basically my friend wants to move to America, She is a UK Citizen born and bred and is white (Not that Im sure that would make any difference), She has wanted t live in the states since she was 5 years old, She is now 24, She has a good income and wouldnt be interested in signing on the dss (Or the US equivelent).

She is thinking of moving to the US on a 3 month holiday visa (with a return ticket) but perhaps might not come back, I realise this would render her as an illegal immigrant if she diid decide to do this, The questions she wants to know are (Supposing she didnt fly back)....

How likely is it she would get caught and ultimatley deported?
Could she buy A car and rent a house without any green card?
She doesnt qualify for any other visa than travel to the US so would there be any oppurtunity of immunity after a certain period of living there? (She earns a decent income online and would happily pay tax in the usa for what she does but wouldnt be in a pposition to hire others in her line of work or invest 100k+, However she makes in excess of 100k dollars per year and would pay tax no problem)


Any advice or opinions on this would be very much appreciated, PM me if you wish to and I dont need people to dictate the law as she already knows it would be illegal so she doesnt need your personal opinions regardig the morals of it, Any opinions or real experience from you or friends would be very much welcomed though!!)

Kind regards


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## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

tigerpoeton said:


> How likely is it she would get caught and ultimatley deported?


It really depends on what she does and whether or not she shows up on the immigration radar somehow.


> Could she buy A car and rent a house without any green card?


Maybe - but that's the kind of thing that could make her turn up on the immigration radar. You play the game and you take your chances.


> She doesnt qualify for any other visa than travel to the US so would there be any oppurtunity of immunity after a certain period of living there? (She earns a decent income online and would happily pay tax in the usa for what she does but wouldnt be in a pposition to hire others in her line of work or invest 100k+, However she makes in excess of 100k dollars per year and would pay tax no problem)


At the moment, no chance of being forgiven if she's caught out. The last amnesty granted to illegals was back in the 1980's. The idea keeps being raised, but lately is pretty quickly stomped back down.

Technically, online income earned while residing in the US is subject to US taxes. But to file and pay said taxes, she'd need a US social security number and that's where things get really, really tricky and where she's most likely to wind up on someone's s--- list.
Cheers,
Bev


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## tigerpoeton (May 5, 2010)

Bevdeforges said:


> It really depends on what she does and whether or not she shows up on the immigration radar somehow.
> 
> Maybe - but that's the kind of thing that could make her turn up on the immigration radar. You play the game and you take your chances.
> 
> ...


Thanks Bev, So with reference to her income if she could show that she was able to support herself financially would this open a window for her to become legal? Also lets say she managed to live in the states for a couple of years then decides to show she is self sufficient would her illegal stint render her un-acceptable?, I would imagine there are an awful lot of illegals in the US currently but as an English girl as apposed to lets say a mexican or an african (Purely as a 'non white' example) surely she is less likely to be looked at? That may be totally incorrect but its just a theory

Would you personally think or know if many UK citizens are there without the correct visa and do you know the punishment if caught?

Many thanks for your invaluable information :clap2:


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## twostep (Apr 3, 2008)

tigerpoeton said:


> Thanks Bev, So with reference to her income if she could show that she was able to support herself financially would this open a window for her to become legal? Also lets say she managed to live in the states for a couple of years then decides to show she is self sufficient would her illegal stint render her un-acceptable?, I would imagine there are an awful lot of illegals in the US currently but as an English girl as apposed to lets say a mexican or an african (Purely as a 'non white' example) surely she is less likely to be looked at? That may be totally incorrect but its just a theory
> 
> Would you personally think or know if many UK citizens are there without the correct visa and do you know the punishment if caught?
> 
> Many thanks for your invaluable information :clap2:


Illegal is illegal. It does not matter that your friend is white, female and has a regular income. Sooner or later she will make a fatal mistake. Just the idea that a couple of years and everything will be fine
Recently some Scotts were enraged when they ended up in a holding facility with Mexicans for a couple of weeks.
ICE is not messing around much anymore - deportation and generally a permanent ban is the basic response.
Why does she not go the legal route? It is not that difficult to get the appropriate education and experience in Europe to make the move via an employer.


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## tigerpoeton (May 5, 2010)

twostep said:


> Illegal is illegal. It does not matter that your friend is white, female and has a regular income. Sooner or later she will make a fatal mistake. Just the idea that a couple of years and everything will be fine
> Recently some Scotts were enraged when they ended up in a holding facility with Mexicans for a couple of weeks.
> ICE is not messing around much anymore - deportation and generally a permanent ban is the basic response.
> Why does she not go the legal route? It is not that difficult to get the appropriate education and experience in Europe to make the move via an employer.


Thanks Twostep, I appreciate full what you are saying and I accept the morals of what she is considering are wrong, With regards to the legal route it doesnt make sense for her to to go to university to obtain a degree, Get in debt only to work in a 50k job per year when she makes 100k now! The only problem is she cannot employ people in her line of work and it isnt something she could do being 'employed' by someone else.

Hence her problem, However the US is her dream and although she wont take anything, Only give to the system and economy she is unable to be granted access :-(


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## EVHB (Feb 11, 2008)

She can try to find a nice boyfriend who is a US citizen. 

I wouldn't go for the illegal route. Suppose she meets a decent guy after a while, and he wants to marry here, there's the possibility that they will be kiked out of the country, married or not.
And living in incertainty if you will still be there the next morning.... If you can not even sue people if they rob you, or if a drunk hits you, because you would be affraid to get caught...


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## tigerpoeton (May 5, 2010)

EVHB said:


> She can try to find a nice boyfriend who is a US citizen.
> 
> I wouldn't go for the illegal route. Suppose she meets a decent guy after a while, and he wants to marry here, there's the possibility that they will be kiked out of the country, married or not.
> And living in incertainty if you will still be there the next morning.... If you can not even sue people if they rob you, or if a drunk hits you, because you would be affraid to get caught...


I know that is a good route for her to get the right documents but certainly a lot easier said than done!! Also it seems wrong to be looking for mr right on the basis of his nationality!!

I must be missing something here, The USA and UK are pratically the same family, She makes a good income, There must be something she can do!!???


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## EVHB (Feb 11, 2008)

I know a couple of people who met their American husband/wife through the internet (via a messaboard regarding a mutual interest or hobby) or during their trip to the US, or during their semester abroad. Nothing wrong with that, because they really love each other! Some are already married for 21 years. I don't want to encourage anybody to find an American 'stupid/desperate/ or whathever enough to marry you. But if you meet an American and you fall in love: why not?

The options of your friend are studying in the US, maybe she can become an au pair for a couple of months, or she can find a job in her home country that qualifies for a work visa (but in general you will need a degree for that), or she can start a company in the US or buy an existing company. But that costs a lot of monney. It is the way it is. So many people would like to work and/or live in the US, but there are rules on has to follow.


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## mamasue (Oct 7, 2008)

I've got an English friend in Massachusetts who's illegal, and she lives a horrible life.
She's working illegally, and can only get $2 an hour waiting tables. ...living in substandard housing because she can't get a proper lease. 
She can't get a driving license, she can't travel anywhere.
She has a miserable life, but is sticking out for a man she loves(also illegal)
She's forever looking over her shoulder, worrying about ICE catching up with her.....really not a good life!
Is this what your friend wants? Because it's probably what she's got to look forward to!!!


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## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

tigerpoeton said:


> Thanks Bev, So with reference to her income if she could show that she was able to support herself financially would this open a window for her to become legal? Also lets say she managed to live in the states for a couple of years then decides to show she is self sufficient would her illegal stint render her un-acceptable?, I would imagine there are an awful lot of illegals in the US currently but as an English girl as apposed to lets say a mexican or an african (Purely as a 'non white' example) surely she is less likely to be looked at? That may be totally incorrect but its just a theory
> 
> Would you personally think or know if many UK citizens are there without the correct visa and do you know the punishment if caught?
> 
> Many thanks for your invaluable information :clap2:


The big thing about entering the US illegally is that it is just about impossible to "regularize" yourself while still living there. And, if you get caught, you run the risk of being locked out of the US for 10 years - or for life. They take this stuff very, very seriously and people have died in custody awaiting deportation.

To put it mildly, being a nice white English girl may actually increase her chances of running into trouble and being deported because the government needs to show that they are treating everyone alike and not just harassing the illegals from Central and South America. (Which may or may not be the case - but there's a big election coming up and both parties want to show that they're "tough on immigration.")

If she's dead set on this, I would strongly advise her to wait until after the elections next year and then see which way the winds are blowing at that time. It could get lots worse before it gets better.
Cheers,
Bev


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## tigerpoeton (May 5, 2010)

Hi All, Thanks for the replies, There is lot of good information there, After discussig it with and going through the points mentioned here and on other sites she isnt going to go, It doesnt make sense for her to study only to get a worse paying job at the end (And posssibly even no US employment anyway!), Finding a US man is unlikley and she doesnt want to buy a business,

It's unfortunate for her as she has everything to bring to the US and wants nothing back but it would appear the visa system has missed these people with high incomes but self employed only.

Thanks again though for all your help!


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## tigerpoeton (May 5, 2010)

antonyhawk13 said:


> There is many ways to stay LEGAL in this country! Just find your/


Well going through all the Visa's there doesnt seem to be anything that would apply but I know she is desperate to live in the states and become a part of the life and culture and happily pay taxes on her online work, However there doesnt seem to be anything unless she studies, Finds another job with a degree (Which she doesnt have) or open a seemingly very expensive business and employ americans which just isnt possible!!

Any other windows to a visa would be appreciated considering the information provided


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## twostep (Apr 3, 2008)

tigerpoeton said:


> Well going through all the Visa's there doesnt seem to be anything that would apply but I know she is desperate to live in the states and become a part of the life and culture and happily pay taxes on her online work, However there doesnt seem to be anything unless she studies, Finds another job with a degree (Which she doesnt have) or open a seemingly very expensive business and employ americans which just isnt possible!!
> 
> Any other windows to a visa would be appreciated considering the information provided


uscis.gov is the bible of all US immigrants. If she is really set on moving to the US she will have to work towards her goal.


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## AnotherOpinion (Nov 7, 2011)

There are 12 million adults living illegally in the US. Most have been living here illegally for many, many years. 

Buying a car and registering it won't get you deported. Just make sure you buy car insurance. Nothing ticks off an American more than getting into a car accident and then finding out that the person who hit you doesn't have car insurance. 

Obama has just announced that his administration won't be deporting anyone who doesn't have a criminal record.


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## tigerpoeton (May 5, 2010)

Thanks for that last bit of information, Just wondering if she went over even just for the allowed 6 months could she open a bank account? Rent a house? Buy a car? Also would a budget of $1500 be ok to rent a 3 bed somewhere nice (Not the hood lol) on the outskirts (100 mile radius) of new york?


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## FriendlyFace2 (Nov 29, 2011)

tigerpoeton said:


> Thanks for that last bit of information, Just wondering if she went over even just for the allowed 6 months could she open a bank account? Rent a house? Buy a car? Also would a budget of $1500 be ok to rent a 3 bed somewhere nice (Not the hood lol) on the outskirts (100 mile radius) of new york?



I don't know about the rental market around New York city, upstate New York has some cheap housing, but it's bloody cold in the winter time. Your friend will need to apply for an ITIN, a number used for a variety of reasons, like opening bank accounts, and filing tax returns, for non-citizens/residents. That number is not shared with immigration services. In most states anybody can buy a car, and register it, legal resident of not. You'd probably have to pay cash for it, as it might be hard to get a loan. There are plenty of non-citizens who live here part of the year, they buy a vehicle for cash, rent a house or apartment. Many Canadians do this for the winters, then go home.


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## EVHB (Feb 11, 2008)

But don't forget that Canadians have a legal status if they come to the US for the winter.


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## Wayfarer (Apr 4, 2009)

AnotherOpinion said:


> There are 12 million adults living illegally in the US. Most have been living here illegally for many, many years.
> 
> Buying a car and registering it won't get you deported. Just make sure you buy car insurance. Nothing ticks off an American more than getting into a car accident and then finding out that the person who hit you doesn't have car insurance.
> 
> Obama has just announced that his administration won't be deporting anyone who doesn't have a criminal record.


If you've got a SSN you can stay on the system's radar without being screwed over.
You will need a SSN to get insurance. I found it nearly impossible to get insurance until I had one of these when I was working (legally) over the states.
The doors that open when you get this are astounding.

Certain states are 'illegal' friendly.
These that I know for certain are:

California, Washington Illinois. I think Portland Oregon is another.

Basically any big city with liberals in it and you'll have an easier time in surviving.

The DREAM Act, although lamented by some, is a boon for others.
This makes it illegal to be investigated for legal immigrant status by the police during routine traffic stops. Currently this only apply's to California though, so outside of that state your 'perks' dry out somewhat.

Also there are Sanctuary cities outside of California too.
These places are also where, if you are illegal, you can live and get work easier than elsewhere.

For me I hate big city's but for folks who like them, that's where you disappear if you don't mind them.
I have a relative who is in the states (some NE state).
She has to keep moving between relatives houses, etc. Not my thing really.

If you are white, depending on what state and area you're in will help or hinder you.
However your accent, even the way you look can still be a giveaway in some areas.
If they like you you'll be alright, if you piss someone off and they know you're illegal and you're outside of a sanctuary city or DREAM state, it's ICE time baby!

There's more to be said about working under the table and keeping clear, plus defensive issues that get around the Brady Act but I don't want to give too many secrets away.

If she keep's her health up and lives conservatively she should be ok.
Yet like one of the mods said, it depends on whether you get an amnesty.

Yes the visa situation sucks to high heaven and has done since 1965, but that's another story...

I think Ron Paul is a good bet for doing this.
He's libertarian and, at the risk of ruffling liberal feathers, would lean towards European's having a decent visa status for a change.


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## EVHB (Feb 11, 2008)

If you are living in very bad circumstances in your poor home country, than maybe you are 'better' off as an illegal in the US. But if you come from a Western European country, I doubt that you will have a better life as an illegal in the States.


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## Vegasgirl94 (Feb 12, 2011)

tigerpoeton said:


> Thanks for that last bit of information, Just wondering if she went over even just for the allowed 6 months could she open a bank account?


My bank in America wouldn't even allow my husband (UKC) to be on my bank account (I'm a USC) without a social security number, so I'd have to say no.

Sent from my iPad using ExpatForum


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## madialevin (Dec 3, 2011)

*do it right from the beginning*

The problem is that when she gets caught there is no chance of staying. We have heard of a South African woman who went to the US some years ago and stayed illegally. She met a man from South Africa who was in the US legally and they got married in the US. For some reason she was able to work and live in the US. She was a productive member of the community (both are well-educated with good jobs) and they had 2 kids (now early teens). They then decided to legalise her status (the husband and kids are legal) and were told to come back to South Africa and apply from here but when they did and they applied they were denied. It is now gone on to several appeals but it’s not looking positive. The husband has to travel back and forth between the US and South Africa because he still has his business going there; the kids have been taken out of US school and are being homeschooled (they even got psychologist reports on how stressful it is for the kids to be separated from their mom). 
The best is to do it right from the beginning. It’s a bit of a schlep but I think it’s worth it in the end and will save you a lot of heartache later on.


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## stormgal (Sep 30, 2009)

tigerpoeton said:


> She is a UK Citizen born and bred and is white (Not that Im sure that would make any difference),


 - I assume you threw that in there because you wanted to test the waters to confirm if we're racists or not.  Well if she's of the arrogant British elite who think her race and nationality will get her places, believe me, I'll be the first one to pick up the phone and dial ICE.


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## tigerpoeton (May 5, 2010)

stormgal said:


> - I assume you threw that in there because you wanted to test the waters to confirm if we're racists or not.  Well if she's of the arrogant British elite who think her race and nationality will get her places, believe me, I'll be the first one to pick up the phone and dial ICE.


I think you need to slow down!! Thats not what was meant at all as EVERY British person is aware that the US aswell as the UK are highly multicultural places and its generally accepted as a good thing.

The point being made was being white or even black may be less inconspicuous than a spanish speaking person who FACTUALLY is more likely to be illegal, To Add to that the illegal immagration figures show that British illegals are less than 1% of the illegal population.

As for 'arrogant british elite' it sounds that if anything YOU are the racist!


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## stormgal (Sep 30, 2009)

tigerpoeton said:


> I think you need to slow down!! Thats not what was meant at all as EVERY British person is aware that the US aswell as the UK are highly multicultural places and its generally accepted as a good thing.
> 
> The point being made was being white or even black may be less inconspicuous than a spanish speaking person who FACTUALLY is more likely to be illegal, To Add to that the illegal immagration figures show that British illegals are less than 1% of the illegal population.
> 
> As for 'arrogant british elite' it sounds that if anything YOU are the racist!


I can't be racist against "british" people would laugh at me, but that's a different story lol


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## tigerpoeton (May 5, 2010)

stormgal said:


> I can't be racist against "british" people would laugh at me, but that's a different story lol


Ok well then dont call me the racist and please stop making silly comments trying solely to invoke a reaction!


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## stormgal (Sep 30, 2009)

tigerpoeton said:


> Ok well then dont call me the racist and please stop making silly comments trying solely to invoke a reaction!


okay. Your wish is my command! ray2:


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## JohnSoCal (Sep 2, 2007)

tigerpoeton said:


> I think you need to slow down!! Thats not what was meant at all as EVERY British person is aware that the US aswell as the UK are highly multicultural places and its generally accepted as a good thing.
> 
> The point being made was being white or even black may be less inconspicuous than a spanish speaking person who FACTUALLY is more likely to be illegal, To Add to that the illegal immagration figures show that British illegals are less than 1% of the illegal population.
> 
> As for 'arrogant british elite' it sounds that if anything YOU are the racist!


In most parts of the country, a white lady with a British accent would be a lot more conspicuous than a Hispanic person. There are over 50 million Hispanics living in the US. The vast majority are US citizens born here. Illegals are less than 25% of the Hispanic population. Spanish is a pretty common language in many areas of the US.


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## twostep (Apr 3, 2008)

The purpose of this forum is exchange of information by expats and expats-to-be not "how to live in the US as illegal immigrant because I do not want to play by the rules". Please consider this. Also - please move personal squables to the PN option. Thank you.


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## lifeisgood (Mar 30, 2010)

tigerpoeton said:


> Hi Guys,
> 
> Let me start by saying this is all information I am aquiring for a friend not myself!
> 
> ...


helping someone in doing such a crime constitutes a crime in itself..
you expect people to give you "real" experiences on such crap..
when you are ready to break the law why do opinions/experiences/advice even count ?


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