# Learning to drive in Spain



## stefig

Has anyone done this? I really want to learn to drive and never got around to it while I lived in London. I'm 30 now and it's about time I learned....would love to be able to rent a car and drive around Spain. I'm worried about the language thing. I have a good level of Spanish, but zero car/traffic vocabulary, and looking at the traffic here in Valencia, I'm not sure my nerves would be up to it. Has anyone done it?


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## Lolito

I have met a few, apparently they all say they find it easier to drive in Spain than in the UK. My partner was terrified to drive in UK but here he drives everywhere and likes it. Go for it, although I have to say, even I would be worry about driving in Valencia... lol! I am so used to drive around countryside roads, that when I go to a big city, like yesterday in Alicante, I panic!


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## Pazcat

It might be easier and cheaper to learn in the UK, the logistics may make that a non starter though.
You will need to contact a local autoescuela and go through them, eventually you will find one that offers the written test in English and maybe an instructor who can speak it.
You will have to pass your written test first and then go get a medical before they let you on the road with an instructor, I guess then when they think you are ready you will have to do the driving exam but this will be all in Spanish, shouldn't be too hard if the instructor can prep you with the basic terms before hand or he may even help during the exam.

An autoescuela will cost you upwards of 1000 euro though, it seems you used to be able to take a DIY approach but not sure if you still can.


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## AllHeart

Hi Stefig. Congrats on thinking on getting your licence. I'm also hoping to get mine once my Spanish improves, and, like you, to rent a car to drive around Spain. I certainly don't want to drive in Malaga. Yikes!!!! I read this article that is very amusing and also has good information in it. I think it's an old article, but I think a lot still applies. 

Getting a drivers licence in Andalucía, driving lessons Costa del Sol, Spain.

Here's some information in English about traffic rules in Spain:

Going abroad - Spain - European Commission

There are apparently English practice tests online, but I haven't been able to find them. Perhaps someone else has the link?

Good luck!


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## Justina

The practise tests to do at home on the computer come via the driving school who put you on line. And yes, the written test has the option of about five languages. Trafico does show a couple of exams while the school offers hundreds.


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## xabiaxica

Pazcat said:


> It might be easier and cheaper to learn in the UK, the logistics may make that a non starter though.
> You will need to contact a local autoescuela and go through them, eventually you will find one that offers the written test in English and maybe an instructor who can speak it.
> You will have to pass your written test first and then go get a medical before they let you on the road with an instructor, I guess then when they think you are ready you will have to do the driving exam but this will be all in Spanish, shouldn't be too hard if the instructor can prep you with the basic terms before hand or he may even help during the exam.
> 
> An autoescuela will cost you upwards of 1000 euro though, it seems you used to be able to take a DIY approach but not sure if you still can.


The OP would have to actually have to return to live in the UK in order to legally take the driving test there.


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## Pazcat

I did say it may be a non starter though.

Still I would seriously consider it if it was an option open to me, it could save you a 1000 euro or more.


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## stefig

Thanks for the replies everyone!

I'm a bit confused as to why it would be cheaper in the UK. One of the reasons I never learned in London was that all the local driving schools were charging upwards of £40 an hour per lesson, and as I have no car to practise in, I think I'd need a lot of lessons.


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## Pazcat

If you have friends or parents with full licenses in the UK then you can effectively use them for driving lessons, there is no requirement to go to a driving school and therefor save quite a lot of money.
As far as I know, and I could be wrong but in Spain you have to use a registered driving instructor and they do cost quite a bit.

People seem to make all sorts of arrangements when coming to Spain as it is to avoid tax and residency so I don't see it as a stretch for some.
Of course I know it is not a viable option for most but it's another option is all.

If anyone is still in the planning stages to move and thinking of getting a license I'd do it before the move if possible.


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## AllHeart

There are lots of car vocabulary lists for South American Spanish, but I couldn't find too many for Spain. But here are some:

https://quizlet.com/12564072/spanish-car-vocabulary-flash-cards/

Cars & Motoring - Spain news in English

Driving in Spain - Spain news in English

Maybe others have some links?



Pazcat said:


> If you have friends or parents with full licenses in the UK then you can effectively use them for driving lessons, there is no requirement to go to a driving school and therefor save quite a lot of money.
> As far as I know, and I could be wrong but in Spain you have to use a registered driving instructor and they do cost quite a bit.


True. It's the same in Canada as with the UK.


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## Pazcat

Also us non EU citizens we don't get a choice, despite a Spanish license being perfectly valid to swap over in Australia they make Aussies/Canadians/Americans sit the full test.


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## AllHeart

I made a mistake above. The quizlet.com site is Hispanic I think. I meant to post this one:
Spanish word list - Cars -Coches



Pazcat said:


> Also us non EU citizens we don't get a choice, despite a Spanish license being perfectly valid to swap over in Australia they make Aussies/Canadians/Americans sit the full test.


I've had my Canadian (Ontario) driver's licence since I was 16 and my beginner's permit when I was 15. Never have I had to retest. The only criteria is that you don't let your licence renewal lapse! Once you hit 80 years old, you have to retest every two years. How does it work in Australia?

Re medical conditions... The way it works in Ontario (and most if not all other provinces) is that if you have a medical condition that impairs your driving, it is up to you to tell the Ministry of Transportation. If a doctor finds out that you have a medical condition that impairs your driving, it is up to the doctor to report you to the Ministry of Transportation. I've heard of many people who have medical problems and won't go to the doctor about them, just so that they don't lose their licence.


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## baldilocks

Pazcat said:


> If you have friends or parents with full licenses in the UK then you can effectively use them for driving lessons, there is no requirement to go to a driving school and therefor save quite a lot of money.
> As far as I know, and I could be wrong but in Spain you have to use a registered driving instructor and they do cost quite a bit.
> .


Yes, in Spain you do have to go through the proper courses. The big advantage is that you don't pick up bad habits from fiends and family.


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## Pazcat

@AllHeart, 

I'm not overly sure what our system is these days, each state is slightly different.
But something like you start at 16 driving with L plates and then once you pass an exam(a minimum of 6 months on L's) you can get your probationary license for something like 18 months before you get a full one.
From memory.

Same deal with the expiration too, which mine has because the state department gave me wrong advice despite me asking the right things and then mysteriously never received my renewal.


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## AllHeart

baldilocks said:


> Yes, in Spain you do have to go through the proper courses. The big advantage is that you don't pick up bad habits from *fiends* and family.


And friends.


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## AllHeart

Pazcat said:


> @AllHeart,
> 
> I'm not overly sure what our system is these days, each state is slightly different.
> But something like you start at 16 driving with L plates and then once you pass an exam(a minimum of 6 months on L's) you can get your probationary license for something like 18 months before you get a full one.
> From memory.
> 
> Same deal with the expiration too, which mine has because the state department gave me wrong advice despite me asking the right things and then mysteriously never received my renewal.


Sorry yours expired!  It may be a moot point anyway if you stay in Spain forever.

I think it's similar in the UK, where they don't have to retest until 70. Is that right?


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## Madliz

My son used a driving school here about 7 years ago. It was €500 including all the theory, the classes, online access to tests and the book, then 15 lessons in a car. You wouldn't guess it, from the standard of driving here, but the Highway Code is three times the size of the British one. The questions in the test are so ambiguous that it many cases (Spanish kids confirm this) the only way to pass the theory is to memorise tests and answers. The theory is the hardest thing most youngsters have ever faced!

A friend's daughter did her driving tuition in English but failed her first test as she didn't know what the examiner meant when he talked about a _semáforo_.


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## el romeral

Madliz said:


> My son used a driving school here about 7 years ago. It was €500 including all the theory, the classes, online access to tests and the book, then 15 lessons in a car. You wouldn't guess it, from the standard of driving here, but the Highway Code is three times the size of the British one. The questions in the test are so ambiguous that it many cases (Spanish kids confirm this) the only way to pass the theory is to memorise tests and answers. The theory is the hardest thing most youngsters have ever faced!
> 
> A friend's daughter did her driving tuition in English but failed her first test as she didn't know what the examiner meant when he talked about a _semáforo_.


I agree with you. My daughter sat and passed her test 2 years ago. The questions in the theory were mostly ridiculous - with way too many focussing on minute details to do with drugs and alcohol? Much easier just to teach pupils you do not do it full stop and get on with some real questions. You can tell how pointless the theory is from the way people drive - as they have scant regard to any rules. 

I guess there must be a question about what hazard warning lights are used for though? Correct answer being - "once switch is activated, you can abandon your car absolutely anywhere - at a roundabout, junction, pedestrian crossing, double, triple parking - the choice is yours":roll:

Do not recall what it cost us in total but several hundred euros as she failed first time. That was another joke, as 2 pupils are tested together. The teacher is in the car & the examiner. My daughter was taken all round the centre of Malaga on her first test where she failed due to slight confusion with a bus lane - an easy mistake to make at the best of times. The other pupil had his test on a much easier motorway section and passed 

Another daft thing is you can pass the test having never had to do a hill start, reverse or do an emergency stop! My daughter, after having passed her test, literally could not get the car out of our road due to slightly tricky exit on a hill. Do not think the clutch has been the same since :roll:


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## Justina

*Licence*



Pazcat said:


> Also us non EU citizens we don't get a choice, despite a Spanish license being perfectly valid to swap over in Australia they make Aussies/Canadians/Americans sit the full test.


Plus the Mexican one, but not those of Argentina, Ecuador, Bolivia and Mali.


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## Justina

*Licence*



Madliz said:


> My son used a driving school here about 7 years ago. It was €500 including all the theory, the classes, online access to tests and the book, then 15 lessons in a car. You wouldn't guess it, from the standard of driving here, but the Highway Code is three times the size of the British one. The questions in the test are so ambiguous that it many cases (Spanish kids confirm this) the only way to pass the theory is to memorise tests and answers. The theory is the hardest thing most youngsters have ever faced!
> 
> A friend's daughter did her driving tuition in English but failed her first test as she didn't know what the examiner meant when he talked about a _semáforo_.


And don't forget having to learn about the speeds etc of motobikes, vespas, vans etc.,


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## Pazcat

To be fair though the Mexicans just hand out their licenses, that is probably fair enough.

I can get the latino countries, they tend to have less restriction in Spain all round but for some reason Koreans and the Japanese can swap licenses as well.


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## AllHeart

I just found that out today in looking for this in another thread - that there are non-EU countries who have an agreement with Spain so that they can exchange licences. I can't find out what the agreement is, but in May 2014, these were the countries that had this agreement:

Algeria, Andorra, Argentina, Brazil, Bolivia, Chile, Colombia, Croatia, The Dominican Republic, Ecuador, El Salvador, Guatemala, Japan, Macedonia, Morocco, Peru, The Philippines, Paraguay, Peru, Serbia, South Korea, Switzerland, Turkey, Tunisia, Ukraine, Uruguay and Venezuela.

From here: Guide to driving and changing your license in Spain | LFStyle


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## stefig

Justina said:


> And don't forget having to learn about the speeds etc of motobikes, vespas, vans etc.,


A bit like the Spanish education system in general, then? A lot of memorising of completely pointless information. Hope that's not too controversial to say.


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## xabiaxica

AllHeart said:


> I just found that out today in looking for this in another thread - that there are non-EU countries who have an agreement with Spain so that they can exchange licences. I can't find out what the agreement is, but in May 2014, these were the countries that had this agreement:
> 
> Algeria, Andorra, Argentina, Brazil, Bolivia, Chile, Colombia, Croatia, The Dominican Republic, Ecuador, El Salvador, Guatemala, Japan, Macedonia, Morocco, Peru, The Philippines, Paraguay, Peru, Serbia, South Korea, Switzerland, Turkey, Tunisia, Ukraine, Uruguay and Venezuela.
> 
> From here: Guide to driving and changing your license in Spain | LFStyle


Unfortunately some of the info regarding renewing driving licences is wrong


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## AllHeart

xabiachica said:


> Unfortunately some of the info regarding renewing driving licences is wrong


Yes, I know a lot of this information outdated - which is why I gave the date - including the list of countries that have this agreement.


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## lorort

This is a good place to do practice exams. You pick your language and hit entrar it will get you started.

https://sedeapl.dgt.gob.es/WEB_EXAM_AUTO/examen/loginExamen.jsp?tipoCuest=B


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## Pesky Wesky

I passed my test here around the same age as the OP, albeit many moons ago and I did it all in Spanish, and I did it in Madrid, so it can be done. My first class included Gran Via and Calle San Bernardo. Terrifying!
I think if you're going to drive here on a regular basis it's not a bad idea to gain a little car vocabulary along the way, so that's what I did. Even then the theory test was notoriously difficult. I knew that so I conscientiously studied for it and consequently passed first time. On the bus back from the test centre though I met a young Spanish woman who told me she had failed five times. I remember one question in a practice test asked when you were supposed to put the headlights on
a cuando llueve copiosamente
b cuando llueve fuertemente
c cuando llueve

All the other class members (yes, I went to classes) wanted to know what the difference was between a and b, and all the other class members were Spanish. Can't remember the answer, sorry.

I passed the theory on the second attempt.

I have never driven in the UK except for about three classes when I was a student. Now I'm in the UK and I am so glad I don't drive on these little roads all around WSM, and the roundabouts - scary!


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## baldilocks

Pesky Wesky said:


> I passed my test here around the same age as the OP, albeit many moons ago and I did it all in Spanish, and I did it in Madrid, so it can be done. My first class included Gran Via and Calle San Bernardo. Terrifying!
> I think if you're going to drive here on a regular basis it's not a bad idea to gain a little car vocabulary along the way, so that's what I did. Even then the theory test was notoriously difficult. I knew that so I conscientiously studied for it and consequently passed first time. On the bus back from the test centre though I met a young Spanish woman who told me she had failed five times. I remember one question in a practice test asked when you were supposed to put the headlights on
> a cuando llueve copiosamente
> b cuando llueve fuertemente
> c cuando llueve
> 
> All the other class members (yes, I went to classes) wanted to know what the difference was between a and b, and all the other class members were Spanish. Can't remember the answer, sorry.
> 
> I passed the theory on the second attempt.
> 
> I have never driven in the UK except for about three classes when I was a student. Now I'm in the UK and I am so glad I don't drive on these little roads all around WSM, and the roundabouts - scary!


You want to try some of the little roads and tight corners around here. Try driving through the old Judería in Córdoba.


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## AllHeart

lorort said:


> This is a good place to do practice exams. You pick your language and hit entrar it will get you started.
> 
> https://sedeapl.dgt.gob.es/WEB_EXAM_AUTO/examen/loginExamen.jsp?tipoCuest=B


I failed.  I had six of 30 wrong!!  

Thanks for the link!


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## stefig

That theory test is like an exercise in understanding a backwards, ignorant mentality. Excerpt from the practice theory test:

"Can driving with depression cause an accident?"

Correct answer: c) Yes, because you can make a wrong decision.

For the love of God! Sometimes I feel like I'm living on another planet here. Maybe they should teach people to stop at red lights, to stop at pedestrian crossings, not to drive while having an animated conversation on the old movil and to actually look at the road in front of them instead of stigmatising mental illness. Dear God. I'm actually disgusted.


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## AllHeart

stefig said:


> That theory test is like an exercise in understanding a backwards, ignorant mentality. Excerpt from the practice theory test:
> 
> "Can driving with depression cause an accident?"
> 
> Correct answer: c) Yes, because you can make a wrong decision.
> 
> For the love of God! Sometimes I feel like I'm living on another planet here. Maybe they should teach people to stop at red lights, to stop at pedestrian crossings, not to drive while having an animated conversation on the old movil and to actually look at the road in front of them instead of stigmatising mental illness. Dear God. I'm actually disgusted.


I found the questions really tricky and ambiguous, but this one is straightforward. I don't think it's stigmatising mental illness incorrectly, because some mental illness, including depression (especially psychotic depression), and the pills you may have to take for mental illness, may affect your driving. I have mental illness and know that I might not be able to take my licence on account of that. In Canada, it is not the case, but here we are in Spain and I have to follow these rules.

In the UK, there are also laws against driving with mental illness. I belonged to a UK mental illness forum about 15 years ago, and many of them could not drive because of their mental condition. You'll see in this link that you might not be able to drive in the UK with mental illnesses, many of which are included in this list:

https://www.gov.uk/health-conditions-and-driving

I have hope that I can drive here because my illness is well controlled, but I don't know yet. At least I'm not in Saudi Arabia, where women can't drive.


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## Pesky Wesky

stefig said:


> That theory test is like an exercise in understanding a backwards, ignorant mentality. Excerpt from the practice theory test:
> 
> "Can driving with depression cause an accident?"
> 
> Correct answer: c) Yes, because you can make a wrong decision.
> 
> For the love of God! Sometimes I feel like I'm living on another planet here. Maybe they should teach people to stop at red lights, to stop at pedestrian crossings, not to drive while having an animated conversation on the old movil and to actually look at the road in front of them instead of stigmatising mental illness. Dear God. I'm actually disgusted.


 Just as long as you do take your disgust to the DGT and not to brand all Spanish as backwards and with an ignorant mentality...

Actually both in the UK and in Spain you are expected to inform the authorities if you are taking medication for depression or in some cases if your condition worsens (which I expect few people do) and if that doesn't happen, the doctor can inform them.
I know something like this is also true of patients with diabetis in Spain


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## Pesky Wesky

AllHeart said:


> I found the questions really tricky and ambiguous, but this one is straightforward. I don't think it's stigmatising mental illness incorrectly, because some mental illness, including depression (especially psychotic depression), and the pills you may have to take for mental illness, may affect your driving. I have mental illness and know that I might not be able to take my licence on account of that. In Canada, it is not the case, but here we are in Spain and I have to follow these rules.
> 
> In the UK, there are also laws against driving with mental illness. I belonged to a UK mental illness forum about 15 years ago, and many of them could not drive because of their mental condition. You'll see in this link that you might not be able to drive in the UK with mental illnesses, many of which are included in this list:
> 
> https://www.gov.uk/health-conditions-and-driving
> 
> I have hope that I can drive here because my illness is well controlled, but I don't know yet. At least I'm not in Saudi Arabia, where women can't drive.


We kind of coincided in our posts AllHeart.

Now I have to go and take care of my 90 year old father with dementia and Alzheimers who still has a licence and a car and believes he can still drive it - using the house keys...


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## Brangus

Pesky Wesky said:


> I remember one question in a practice test asked when you were supposed to put the headlights on
> a cuando llueve copiosamente
> b cuando llueve fuertemente
> c cuando llueve
> 
> All the other class members (yes, I went to classes) wanted to know what the difference was between a and b, and all the other class members were Spanish. !


Using the link posted earlier in this thread, I just did the practice test and got the question:

_El alcohol, ¿cómo afecta a la conducción?
_
Two of the choices were:
* _Puede favorecer la aparición del sueño_
* _Puede reducir el tiempo de reacción._

In other words:
* Six
* A half dozen

Or am I missing something? The correct answer was _Puede favorecer la aparición del sueño._


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## Brangus

Pesky Wesky said:


> Now I have to go and take care of my 90 year old father with dementia and Alzheimers who still has a licence and a car and believes he can still drive it - using the house keys...


Very sorry to hear that. My father also had Alzheimers.


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## AllHeart

Brangus said:


> Using the link posted earlier in this thread, I just did the practice test and got the question:
> 
> _El alcohol, ¿cómo afecta a la conducción?
> _
> Two of the choices were:
> * _Puede favorecer la aparición del sueño_
> * _Puede reducir el tiempo de reacción._
> 
> In other words:
> * Six
> * A half dozen
> 
> Or am I missing something? The correct answer was _Puede favorecer la aparición del sueño._


That's what I mean that the questions were often ambiguous and tricky. I got a question wrong on alcohol too. I can't remember exactly how it went, but it was something like this:

When driving below the permissible alcohol limit:

A) It is impossible to have an alcohol-related accident.
B) It is unlikely to have an alcohol-related accident.
C) It is possible to have an alcohol-related accident.

I chose B, thinking that they would set the level to where it's unlikely. But the answer was C.


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## Justina

*Driving test*



Brangus said:


> Using the link posted earlier in this thread, I just did the practice test and got the question:
> 
> _El alcohol, ¿cómo afecta a la conducción?
> _
> Two of the choices were:
> * _Puede favorecer la aparición del sueño_
> * _Puede reducir el tiempo de reacción._
> 
> In other words:
> * Six
> * A half dozen
> 
> Or am I missing something? The correct answer was _Puede favorecer la aparición del sueño._


If you look in the book you will find 'puede...... and you should memorise that answer. In each question there is one answer that can be dismissed, but beware of the other two choices where there was to me just a subtle difference.


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## Pazcat

Some times the answers for a) and b) are exactly the same and you know the answer isn't c) and you just have to memorize a or b or with whichever No they choose.
At least that is with the English version.


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## baldilocks

AllHeart said:


> That's what I mean that the questions were often ambiguous and tricky. I got a question wrong on alcohol too. I can't remember exactly how it went, but it was something like this:
> 
> When driving below the permissible alcohol limit:
> 
> A) It is impossible to have an alcohol-related accident.
> B) It is unlikely to have an alcohol-related accident.
> C) It is possible to have an alcohol-related accident.
> 
> I chose B, thinking that they would set the level to where it's unlikely. But the answer was C.


You fell into the trap. A is definitely wrong. If you have had any alcohol at all then the choice between B or C is obvious. You can't say that there is any degree of *im*possibility of having an accident so B is obviously wrong, therefore the answer must be C


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## AllHeart

Pazcat said:


> Some times the answers for a) and b) are exactly the same and you know the answer isn't c) and you just have to memorize a or b or with whichever No they choose.
> At least that is with the English version.


That's what I've heard - that you have to memorize the ambiguous answers. But there are thousands of questions!

Does anyone know... I'm wondering if there are as many English tests to practice from (since I'm planning on writing in English)? Is the code available in English, or only Spanish?


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## baldilocks

Brangus said:


> Using the link posted earlier in this thread, I just did the practice test and got the question:
> 
> _El alcohol, ¿cómo afecta a la conducción?
> _
> Two of the choices were:
> * _Puede favorecer la aparición del sueño_
> * _Puede reducir el tiempo de reacción._
> 
> In other words:
> * Six
> * A half dozen
> 
> Or am I missing something? The correct answer was _Puede favorecer la aparición del sueño._


Oh dear , oh dear oh dear.

Puede favorecer la aparición del sueño = it can promote the onset of sleep
Puede reducir el tiempo de reacción. = it can reduce reaction times

If you have been drinking, would YOU say that you say that you would be quicker off the mark if, say, a child ran in front of your car? i.e. your reaction times would be reduced????

The choices are not 'six of one, half a dozen' but ten or nil.


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## AllHeart

baldilocks said:


> You fell into the trap. A is definitely wrong. If you have had any alcohol at all then the choice between B or C is obvious. You can't say that there is any degree of *im*possibility of having an accident so B is obviously wrong, therefore the answer must be C


You're wrong. B is unlikely, not impossible. A is impossible.


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## baldilocks

Pazcat said:


> Some times the answers for a) and b) are exactly the same and you know the answer isn't c) and you just have to memorize a or b or with whichever No they choose.
> At least that is with the English version.


Invariably they aren't the same but subtly different so you have to read them very carefully. (see my reply to Allheart - post 39)


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## baldilocks

AllHeart said:


> You're wrong. B is unlikely, not impossible. A is impossible.


Read MORE CAREFULLY - this is where you are all going wrong. * Unlikely* is a degree of* impossibility*, i.e. it is not likely to happen * Likely* is a degree of possibility, i.e. it *is* possible.

So considering the three options
A = impossible
B = possible but unlikely
C = possible.

The answer is obviously C

Your apology wrapped in a 10€ bill will be gratefully accepted.


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## Justina

And.......you are not allowed to see your results and to see where you went wrong. All a big secret.


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## AllHeart

I have to make a correction to what I said above. I was talking to one of my Canadian friends last night about this thread. He told me that the law at the time I got my licence in Ontario (and now) is 16 - not 15.



baldilocks said:


> Read MORE CAREFULLY - this is where you are all going wrong. * Unlikely* is a degree of* impossibility*, i.e. it is not likely to happen * Likely* is a degree of possibility, i.e. it *is* possible.
> 
> So considering the three options
> A = impossible
> B = possible but unlikely
> C = possible.
> 
> The answer is obviously C
> 
> Your apology wrapped in a 10€ bill will be gratefully accepted.


You're hilarious. I refuse to apologize or pay for your lessons!! 

Using your same logic:

A=impossible
B=possible but unlikely
C=possible and likely

Like I said, I think it should be B. Why would they set a legal limit that is higher than what would make an accident unlikely?

If you think these questions are so easy and straightforward, I challenge you to write a test. Of course you have to be honest about your score. I can tell when a man is lying!


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## baldilocks

AllHeart said:


> I have to make a correction to what I said above. I was talking to one of my Canadian friends last night about this thread. He told me that the law at the time I got my licence in Ontario (and now) is 16 - not 15.
> 
> 
> 
> You're hilarious. I refuse to apologize or pay for your lessons!!
> 
> 
> If you think these questions are so easy and straightforward, I challenge you to write a test. Of course you have to be honest about your score. I can tell when a man is lying!


I haven't billed you for the Spanish lessons yet!

I'll take a test send me the link (you have my e-mail)

You can tell when a man is lying? is that why you don't have one?


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## AllHeart

baldilocks said:


> I haven't billed you for the Spanish lessons yet!
> 
> I'll take a test send me the link (you have my e-mail)
> 
> You can tell when a man is lying? is that why you don't have one?


Cheeky monkey! Who says I don't have a man....or a few? 

Here's the link given above by Lorort: https://sedeapl.dgt.gob.es/WEB_EXAM_AUTO/examen/loginExamen.jsp?tipoCuest=B

Since you're claiming that both the English and Spanish versions are easy, I challenge you to do both. To be sure that you're not lying, I think it's fair to ask for a screenshot of your results, either here in this thread or by email. Are you up for that challenge?

A pass is no more than 4 wrong. If you have a strong pass, I will pay you for both Spanish lessons and driving lessons.


----------



## Brangus

baldilocks said:


> Oh dear , oh dear oh dear.
> 
> Puede favorecer la aparición del sueño = it can promote the onset of sleep
> Puede reducir el tiempo de reacción. = it can reduce reaction times
> 
> If you have been drinking, would YOU say that you say that you would be quicker off the mark if, say, a child ran in front of your car? i.e. your reaction times would be reduced????
> 
> The choices are not 'six of one, half a dozen' but ten or nil.


You're right. And I need a drink!


----------



## Justina

You are only allowed 3 mistakes 27/30. 26 and you have failed


----------



## stefig

AllHeart said:


> That's what I mean that the questions were often ambiguous and tricky. I got a question wrong on alcohol too. I can't remember exactly how it went, but it was something like this:
> 
> When driving below the permissible alcohol limit:
> 
> A) It is impossible to have an alcohol-related accident.
> B) It is unlikely to have an alcohol-related accident.
> C) It is possible to have an alcohol-related accident.
> 
> I chose B, thinking that they would set the level to where it's unlikely. But the answer was C.


It's just another pointless question in my eyes. It's always _possible _to have an accident, whether you've been drinking or not. Someone else who has been drinking could crash into you, for example. Also, 'driving below the permissible alcohol limit' could mean anything, from zero alcohol to just under the limit. The question is unclear and completely pointless. 

There's a really stupid one about pedestrians too. Something like:

'Pedestrians do many things which can cause accidents. Among them:

a) They may stand too close to the edge of the road
b) They may not look where they're going
c) They may judge the speed of vehicles incorrectly.

The correct answer is a. How on earth is that the correct answer, and the other two are 'wrong'? Pedestrians do all of these things. Did they do a survey of all the pedestrians in Spain to find out which one is the most common? Inane.


----------



## snikpoh

stefig said:


> It's just another pointless question in my eyes. It's always _possible _to have an accident, whether you've been drinking or not. Someone else who has been drinking could crash into you, for example. Also, 'driving below the permissible alcohol limit' could mean anything, from zero alcohol to just under the limit. The question is unclear and completely pointless.
> 
> There's a really stupid one about pedestrians too. Something like:
> 
> 'Pedestrians do many things which can cause accidents. Among them:
> 
> a) They may stand too close to the edge of the road
> b) They may not look where they're going
> c) They may judge the speed of vehicles incorrectly.
> 
> The correct answer is a. How on earth is that the correct answer, and the other two are 'wrong'? Pedestrians do all of these things. Did they do a survey of all the pedestrians in Spain to find out which one is the most common? Inane.



It really doesn't matter what the answers are or, more importantly, whether you agree with them.

They simply have to be learned. That's what my 3 children did and they all passed with no errors. (We did have a chuckle about some of the expected answers though!)


----------



## baldilocks

AllHeart said:


> Cheeky monkey! Who says I don't have a man....or a few?
> 
> Here's the link given above by Lorort: https://sedeapl.dgt.gob.es/WEB_EXAM_AUTO/examen/loginExamen.jsp?tipoCuest=B
> 
> Since you're claiming that both the English and Spanish versions are easy, I challenge you to do both. To be sure that you're not lying, I think it's fair to ask for a screenshot of your results, either here in this thread or by email. Are you up for that challenge?
> 
> A pass is no more than 4 wrong. If you have a strong pass, I will pay you for both Spanish lessons and driving lessons.












Very busy don't have time to mess with the English version right now. Click on the box and "open image in a new tab"


----------



## baldilocks

baldilocks said:


> Very busy don't have time to mess with the English version right now. Click on the box and "open image in a new tab"


Here is the English version since the system won't let me add it to the other one









Again just click on the box to get it to open in a new tab.


----------



## AllHeart

baldilocks said:


> Here is the English version since the system won't let me add it to the other one
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Again just click on the box to get it to open in a new tab.





baldilocks said:


> Very busy don't have time to mess with the English version right now. Click on the box and "open image in a new tab"



I'm pleased to see you're up for the challenge. But you only answered one of 30 questions in each test! Of course if you answer only one of 30 questions you will either get 0% or 100%. Like I said, you need to answer all questions. Justina says you need to get 27/30 correct in order to pass. Try again. Man up!


----------



## baldilocks

AllHeart said:


> I'm pleased to see you're up for the challenge. But you only answered one of 30 questions in each test! Of course if you answer only one of 30 questions you will either get 0% or 100%. Like I said, you need to answer all questions. Justina says you need to get 27/30 correct in order to pass. Try again. Man up!


You are still at it; just looking at part of what you are seeing - the scores for the entire test are along the bottom - green squares are answer correct, pink (I think is the colour if there are any) for incorrect answers. and if you are colour blind it is even written out in words.

Total questions: 30, Questions correct: 30, Questions incorrect: 0

I even got 35/35 on the UK bus driving test. You've got to know your stuff!


----------



## AllHeart

baldilocks said:


> You are still at it; just looking at part of what you are seeing - the scores for the entire test are along the bottom - green squares are answer correct, pink (I think is the colour if there are any) for incorrect answers. and if you are colour blind it is even written out in words.
> 
> Total questions: 30, Questions correct: 30, Questions incorrect: 0
> 
> I even got 35/35 on the UK bus driving test. You've got to know your stuff!


Oh my goodness gracious me!!!!!  Very impressive! 

A deal is a deal! Email me your address, and I'll send you 15€: 10€ for the driving lessons, 3€ for the Spanish lessons and 2€ as a tip in place of a gold star!


----------



## Pesky Wesky

snikpoh said:


> It really doesn't matter what the answers are or, more importantly, whether you agree with them.
> 
> They simply have to be learned. That's what my 3 children did and they all passed with no errors. (We did have a chuckle about some of the expected answers though!)


I agree. The questions are unecessarily difficult/ vague/ nonsensical, but someone wants to pass their test in Spain you have to pass this test and either you're up for it, or not.

It's a bit like the old "Spain can't ask us to register on a foreigners list and can't tell us how much money to have in the bank" Yes, it can, it does, and if you want to live in Spain legally in the eyes of the Spanish authorities, that's what you have to do.

PS I'm sure most people are aware that the score you have on the theoretical test doesn't reflect how good a driver you are, it just shows you have a certain knowledge of the highway code


----------



## AllHeart

Pesky Wesky said:


> I agree. The questions are unecessarily difficult/ vague/ nonsensical, but someone wants to pass their test in Spain you have to pass this test and either you're up for it, or not.
> 
> It's a bit like the old "Spain can't ask us to register on a foreigners list and can't tell us how much money to have in the bank" Yes, it can, it does, and if you want to live in Spain legally in the eyes of the Spanish authorities, that's what you have to do.


I think it's okay to discuss and comment on a system, whether you're an immigrant/expat or native to a country. It can be a healthy discussion. But I think as an immigrant/expat, you should be extra careful in your wording of criticism, as I have tried to be, because we are guests in this country. I know I'm technically a Spanish citizen, not an immigrant, but everything is like being an immigrant because I've never lived here. That's my view, anyway, and people don't have to agree with it of course. 



Pesky Wesky said:


> PS I'm sure most people are aware that the score you have on the theoretical test doesn't reflect how good a driver you are, it just shows you have a certain knowledge of the highway code


Of course. That's why they have the practical test too. I haven't ever studied the Spanish driving laws, so I'm actually pretty pleased to have only had 6 wrong. I haven't even opened a traffic book since I was 16, yet I tried an Ontario online test yesterday and passed. Woot! It's a very, very straightforward test. 

Here are other tests, in case anyone wants to compare tests internationally:

Ontario, Canada: FREE ON G1 Practice Test You'll Love!

UK: FREE UK Driving Theory Test Practice: DVSA Mock Theory Test!


----------



## Brangus

I don't know exactly what it's called in Spanish, but is it possible to obtain a free copy of what I would call the "driver's manual" online in PDF format or by visiting a DGT office?

Or do you have to pay for it through a driving school?


----------



## el romeral

AllHeart said:


> I think it's okay to discuss and comment on a system, whether you're an immigrant/expat or native to a country. It can be a healthy discussion. But I think as an immigrant/expat, you should be extra careful in your wording of criticism, as I have tried to be, because we are guests in this country. I know I'm technically a Spanish citizen, not an immigrant, but everything is like being an immigrant because I've never lived here. That's my view, anyway, and people don't have to agree with it of course.


I disagree! :eyebrows: and stand by my criticism earlier in the thread. 

I think we expats are in a good position to comment and criticise as we see fit. Unlike many locals, we have knowledge from one, or often more, other countries.

This means we can compare the (frequently) daft and idiotic practices which go on in Spain, with those from lands where things are done more orderly and logically :tape::tape:.


----------



## Pazcat

baldilocks said:


> Invariably they aren't the same but subtly different so you have to read them very carefully. (see my reply to Allheart - post 39)


Hmmm

I actually had a collection of these.


----------



## baldilocks

Pazcat said:


> Hmmm
> 
> I actually had a collection of these.


That is faulty. B and C are the same answer. The picture should have a square blue recommended speed limit sign. e&oe (no lens in right eye today)


----------



## Pazcat

My point exactly, and this is the way it is taught which leaves you complety winging it on the DGT tests which to be fair are no better.
Just think 1200 euro for that crap.


----------



## baldilocks

I wonder whether the Spanish roundabout business derives from the days of mules and maybe mule drawn carts which would probably have taken the outside lane to go left.


----------



## snikpoh

baldilocks said:


> I wonder whether the Spanish roundabout business derives from the days of mules and maybe mule drawn carts which would probably have taken the outside lane to go left.


Aghhhh..... let's not start this again - what's the inside and outside lane of a roundabout??????????????

Simply use left or right lane (or middle if there is one).


----------



## AllHeart

el romeral said:


> I disagree! :eyebrows: and stand by my criticism earlier in the thread.
> 
> I think we expats are in a good position to comment and criticise as we see fit. Unlike many locals, we have knowledge from one, or often more, other countries.
> 
> This means we can compare the (frequently) daft and idiotic practices which go on in Spain, with those from lands where things are done more orderly and logically :tape::tape:.


A bit tongue in cheek, I hope! 

But would you like it if every country did everything the same? What if there was only one driver's test in the world? Or one returns policy? Or one type of government? Or all the same government department structures? Or one language? There would little to discuss and little to compare. 

I like that there are differences - even if the differences mean some don't work well. I wouldn't like to live in world where everything is the same. I don't think we'll ever agree on a perfect system of any kind that suits everyone. There are sci-fi books and movies about that, and they're scary!


----------



## baldilocks

AllHeart said:


> A bit tongue in cheek, I hope!
> 
> But would you like it if every country did everything the same? What if there was only one driver's test in the world? Or one returns policy? Or one type of government? Or all the same government department structures? Or one language? There would little to discuss and little to compare.
> 
> I like that there are differences - even if the differences mean some don't work well. I wouldn't like to live in world where everything is the same. I don't think we'll ever agree on a perfect system of any kind that suits everyone. There are sci-fi books and movies about that, and they're scary!


But if everything did work well and all the systems were integrated and meshed well, we wouldn't waste so much time complying with all the silly requirements of this office and having to do things differently for another office and so on and we would have much more time to enjoy life while knowing that all the systems are working well and the tax refund that you are due will come automatically without your having to spend a day filling in various forms and running around various departments just to get back what was yours in the first place... Now I'll take a breath and a mouthful of coffee.


----------



## Pesky Wesky

el romeral said:


> I disagree! :eyebrows: and stand by my criticism earlier in the thread.
> 
> I think we expats are in a good position to comment and criticise as we see fit. Unlike many locals, we have knowledge from one, or often more, other countries.
> 
> This means we can compare the (frequently) daft and idiotic practices which go on in Spain, with those from lands where things are done more orderly and logically :tape::tape:.


Yes we can, just as I'm sure many foreigners do with some of the strange practices that go in in the UK. (Try getting an appointment for Dr. Lakin in Weston!!)
In my previous post I was saying that you can compare all you like, but in the end it's not likely that as foreigners we will change anything, so it could be looked on as wasted energy even though it may well cause heaps of frustration.


----------



## Pesky Wesky

AllHeart said:


> I like that there are differences - even if the differences mean some don't work well. I wouldn't like to live in world where everything is the same. I don't think we'll ever agree on a perfect system of any kind that suits everyone. There are sci-fi books and movies about that, and they're scary!


I'm not sure that I enjoy differences that don't work well, and recognise that systems that don't work well cause unnecessary stress. But, where possible I try not to let it bother me because me being bothered is not going to give any positives!
Where I am in the UK for example you are supposed to phone the doctor's surgery at 8:00 for a morning appointment and 2:30 for an afternoon appointment. You can't make an appointment for the next day, you can't get an appointment by going to the surgery directly. 
Crazy and far too complicated for elderly people, people who are working, people with young children etc etc


----------



## VFR

Pesky Wesky said:


> I'm not sure that I enjoy differences that don't work well, and recognise that systems that don't work well cause unnecessary stress. But, where possible I try not to let it bother me because me being bothered is not going to give any positives!
> Where I am in the UK for example you are supposed to phone the doctor's surgery at 8:00 for a morning appointment and 2:30 for an afternoon appointment. You can't make an appointment for the next day, you can't get an appointment by going to the surgery directly.
> Crazy and far too complicated for elderly people, people who are working, people with young children etc etc


Seems like they have designed that to ease the work load. 

Here.
Typed in GVA, that took me to the Valencia site, selected medical appointments, entered my S.I.P number, offered 09.15 -09.30- 09.45 the next day, clicked one ....... confirmed.


----------



## Justina

*Doctors*



Pesky Wesky said:


> I'm not sure that I enjoy differences that don't work well, and recognise that systems that don't work well cause unnecessary stress. But, where possible I try not to let it bother me because me being bothered is not going to give any positives!
> Where I am in the UK for example you are supposed to phone the doctor's surgery at 8:00 for a morning appointment and 2:30 for an afternoon appointment. You can't make an appointment for the next day, you can't get an appointment by going to the surgery directly.
> Crazy and far too complicated for elderly people, people who are working, people with young children etc etc


Isn't this crazy appointment system responsible for the increase of patients in A&E?


----------



## Lynn R

Pesky Wesky said:


> I'm not sure that I enjoy differences that don't work well, and recognise that systems that don't work well cause unnecessary stress. But, where possible I try not to let it bother me because me being bothered is not going to give any positives!
> Where I am in the UK for example you are supposed to phone the doctor's surgery at 8:00 for a morning appointment and 2:30 for an afternoon appointment. You can't make an appointment for the next day, you can't get an appointment by going to the surgery directly.
> Crazy and far too complicated for elderly people, people who are working, people with young children etc etc


I found the same when I was staying in the UK to help my elderly aunt after her operation in 2014. I had to arrange a GP appointment for her and duly started trying to ring the surgery at 8.00 am, but it was constantly engaged. By the time I did get through I was told all the appointments for that day had gone, and I should try again tomorrow. How frustrating is that? Even before I left the UK if I needed to see the GP about something but it wasn't exactly urgent, I had to phone the surgery at 8.00 am to be given a same day appointment, which involved me having to take at least half a day off work because by the time I'd got to the appointment and travelled into the city centre, it would be lunchtime. It would have been so much better if I'd been able to phone ahead and get an appointment in 2/3 days' time, preferably the last appointment of the day.

At the moment, I am being driven crazy by trying to contact a major insurance company about a pension I am due to take in June. I replied to a letter they sent me about what I wished to do with the pension, and they just sent me another copy of the original letter outlining all the options and another copy of the 3 leaflets which accompanied it. They want me to phone them on a UK number and when I do I invariably get a recorded message to the effect that they will put me through to an adviser as soon as possible but I am likely to have to wait 20 minutes - some days it's 30 minutes. Never have I had such bad service from a Spanish company.

But I agree with you, spending time and energy fulminating about things we don't like about the ways various systems work in Spain is pretty pointless and achieves exactly nothing except raising our blood pressure.


----------



## Pazcat

However every now and then having a good vent can go some way to lowering blood pressure.

I'm sure it's not just expats who have an occasional grizzle.


----------



## Justina

By contrast in my neck of the woods, I can phone in and ask for an appointment and generally asked when I want it. Or, I can go to the clinic, wait in the queue and ask that way. When my husband was ill, I was given a 'preferente' card and didn't have to wait in the queue.


----------



## Pesky Wesky

In Spain I can make an appointment on the phone, online and at the health centre, but not usually for the same day.
I can also email my doctor to ask the odd question


----------



## Pesky Wesky

Justina said:


> Isn't this crazy appointment system responsible for the increase of patients in A&E?


Possibly, but my sister lives in the same town and can go to the surgery to make an appointment, can phone and I think can also may appointments which are not for the same day. In other words the system in my dad's surgery is crap and isn't nationwide


----------



## baldilocks

Lynn R said:


> I found the same when I was staying in the UK to help my elderly aunt after her operation in 2014. I had to arrange a GP appointment for her and duly started trying to ring the surgery at 8.00 am, but it was constantly engaged. By the time I did get through I was told all the appointments for that day had gone, and I should try again tomorrow. How frustrating is that? Even before I left the UK if I needed to see the GP about something but it wasn't exactly urgent, I had to phone the surgery at 8.00 am to be given a same day appointment, which involved me having to take at least half a day off work because by the time I'd got to the appointment and travelled into the city centre, it would be lunchtime. It would have been so much better if I'd been able to phone ahead and get an appointment in 2/3 days' time, preferably the last appointment of the day.
> 
> At the moment, I am being driven crazy by trying to contact a major insurance company about a pension I am due to take in June. I replied to a letter they sent me about what I wished to do with the pension, and they just sent me another copy of the original letter outlining all the options and another copy of the 3 leaflets which accompanied it. They want me to phone them on a UK number and when I do I invariably get a recorded message to the effect that they will put me through to an adviser as soon as possible but I am likely to have to wait 20 minutes - some days it's 30 minutes. Never have I had such bad service from a Spanish company.
> 
> But I agree with you, spending time and energy fulminating about things we don't like about the ways various systems work in Spain is pretty pointless and achieves exactly nothing except raising our blood pressure.


Wait until you try to phone DWP or HMRC, you queue until the entire system decides that the line is not required because nothing is happening and then cut you off! DWP have an e-mail but if you try to do anything that you need to do, they say they can't take such stuff over e-mail, please phone. I would have thought that phone was less secure than e-mail. I e-mailed IDS about the poor service I was getting and I was allocated a personal customer care person who I can e-mail or phone direct. Rattling the cage at the top can sometimes work wonders.

I'm now trying to do the same with HMRC about SWMBO's voluntary NICs for her UK pension.


----------



## baldilocks

Pesky Wesky said:


> In Spain I can make an appointment on the phone, online and at the health centre, but not usually for the same day.
> I can also email my doctor to ask the odd question


We often are making Dr's appointments for other people and find that the one number system is excellent and can phone up late at night.


----------



## Lynn R

baldilocks said:


> Wait until you try to phone DWP or HMRC, you queue until the entire system decides that the line is not required because nothing is happening and then cut you off! DWP have an e-mail but if you try to do anything that you need to do, they say they can't take such stuff over e-mail, please phone. I would have thought that phone was less secure than e-mail. I e-mailed IDS about the poor service I was getting and I was allocated a personal customer care person who I can e-mail or phone direct. Rattling the cage at the top can sometimes work wonders.
> 
> I'm now trying to do the same with HMRC about SWMBO's voluntary NICs for her UK pension.


I really don't like the way all kinds of organisations now seem to be insisting on dealing with important matters over the phone. Apart from the difficulty of getting through to them, I much prefer to have a written record of what's been said, either by letter or by email, that can be referred back to if necessary. But perhaps that's exactly what they don't want.


----------



## Pesky Wesky

baldilocks said:


> We often are making Dr's appointments for other people and find that the one number system is excellent and can phone up late at night.


What's the one number system?
I like internet best because I can do it at any time and I don't have to speak to anyone.


----------



## Lynn R

baldilocks said:


> Wait until you try to phone DWP or HMRC, you queue until the entire system decides that the line is not required because nothing is happening and then cut you off! DWP have an e-mail but if you try to do anything that you need to do, they say they can't take such stuff over e-mail, please phone. I would have thought that phone was less secure than e-mail. I e-mailed IDS about the poor service I was getting and I was allocated a personal customer care person who I can e-mail or phone direct. Rattling the cage at the top can sometimes work wonders.
> 
> I'm now trying to do the same with HMRC about SWMBO's voluntary NICs for her UK pension.


To be fair, though, I must say that neither of us has encountered anything but good service so far from either the DWP or HMRC. In the last couple of years OH has dealt with the DWP about claiming the WFA, claiming his state pension and changing the bank account his pension is paid into, and I have dealt with HMRC about getting my tax code changed. No problems at all with any of it, and their response was quick.


----------



## baldilocks

Pesky Wesky said:


> What's the one number system?
> I like internet best because I can do it at any time and I don't have to speak to anyone.


There is one number we call in Andalucía for all the health centres around here.


----------



## baldilocks

Lynn R said:


> To be fair, though, I must say that neither of us has encountered anything but good service so far from either the DWP or HMRC. In the last couple of years OH has dealt with the DWP about claiming the WFA, claiming his state pension and changing the bank account his pension is paid into, and I have dealt with HMRC about getting my tax code changed. No problems at all with any of it, and their response was quick.


One of the problems I've had is they will send you a letter and want a reply within ten days and then send the letter via Malta which takes ten days or more.


----------



## Lynn R

Pesky Wesky said:


> What's the one number system?
> I like internet best because I can do it at any time and I don't have to speak to anyone.


There are lots of ways people in Andalucia can make medical appointments via the Salud Responde system:-

Portal de la Consejería de Salud

Like yourself, I prefer the online option but there seems to be something to suit everybody!

And this is Spain, often said on this forum to be years behind in the use of technology.


----------



## AllHeart

Lynn R said:


> There are lots of ways people in Andalucia can make medical appointments via the Salud Responde system:-
> 
> Portal de la Consejería de Salud
> 
> Like yourself, I prefer the online option but there seems to be something to suit everybody!
> 
> And this is Spain, often said on this forum to be years behind in the use of technology.


I think that's fantastic too. Some might criticise this system, saying it's too expensive - especially when the country is in crisis? Also, it might not work 100%, so there may be people complaining about how it doesn't work? 

I'm just saying there's no one system that everyone will agree with. Also, I'm saying that I enjoy the differences and don't get my panties in a knot if something isn't perfect - although I think if something is completely broken it needs to be fixed, like making an appt in the UK. 

I had a fresh new start here in Spain on account of differences between systems. Some things are better; some things are worse.


----------



## AllHeart

This is something the UK is ahead of other countries - drugs and driving. In 2012, legislation was introduced to make it illegal to drive with high levels of certain illegal drugs and high levels of certain prescription drugs. Then in 2015, Wales and England specified test levels of eight illegal drugs and eight prescription drugs: 

From here: https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/drug-driving

There are stiff penalties if you're caught.

_"If you’re convicted of drug driving you’ll get:

a minimum 1 year driving ban
an unlimited fine
up to 6 months in prison
a criminal record
A conviction for drug driving also means:

your car insurance costs will increase significantly
if you drive for work, your employer will see your conviction on your licence
you may have trouble travelling to countries like the USA"
_From here: https://www.gov.uk/drug-driving-law

There's no such thing as testing for drug levels when driving in Canada. I don't think they have it in Spain either. I wonder what others think of this?


----------



## Pazcat

They do test for drugs just like they do breathe tests for alcohol.
I think it is a little swab of the cheek or tongue. This is mainly targeting recreational drugs, so you can get done for that too here.


----------



## AllHeart

Pazcat said:


> They do test for drugs just like they do breathe tests for alcohol.
> I think it is a little swab of the cheek or tongue. This is mainly targeting recreational drugs, so you can get done for that too here.


Wow, I didn't know that. I looked into it deeper, and see that it's been illegal in Canada, under the Criminal Code of Canada (federal law), to drive while impaired for almost a century. I thought that meant only alcohol, but it's also for drugs! I had no idea! The problem comes in the testing for drugs, and they're looking to the UK's new laws for answers. It also turns out that many countries in Europe have laws against mixing drugs and driving. The fines in Canada for impaired driving on drugs or alcohol are stiff. 

In case anyone is interested, here is more info, including on international laws:

Impaired driving

Why it's so hard to fight drug-impaired driving - Canada - CBC News


----------



## xabiaxica

Pesky Wesky said:


> What's the one number system?
> I like internet best because I can do it at any time and I don't have to speak to anyone.


I even used the internet appt system when I lived right next door to the centro de salud!

So much easier than going in & queueing or hanging on the phone!


----------



## AllHeart

Darn it all. I don't think I'll be allowed to get a driving licence in Spain.  I spoke to one of the centres that does the medical certificate, and the doctor said I probably can't get one on account of my mental illness, but he advised me to check with the traffic dept (DGT). I have made an appt for Mar 11. Oh well. I feel grateful that I was allowed to drive in Canada so many years, when I probably would never have been allowed to drive here.


----------



## stefig

AllHeart said:


> A bit tongue in cheek, I hope!
> 
> But would you like it if every country did everything the same? What if there was only one driver's test in the world? Or one returns policy? Or one type of government? Or all the same government department structures? Or one language? There would little to discuss and little to compare.
> 
> I like that there are differences - even if the differences mean some don't work well. I wouldn't like to live in world where everything is the same. I don't think we'll ever agree on a perfect system of any kind that suits everyone. There are sci-fi books and movies about that, and they're scary!


I do think there should be a more or less standardised driving test, yes. In my eyes, the Spanish theory test is not fit for purpose. This isn't a 'Mercadona don't sell HP sauce' type whinge. The drivers around here are deadly and simply have no idea about the rules of the road. Maybe if the theory test included more questions about signs and right of way and other things people need to use every day, instead of pointless questions about what pedestrians might possibly do, there would be fewer accidents.


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## Madliz

stefig said:


> I do think there should be a more or less standardised driving test, yes. In my eyes, the Spanish theory test is not fit for purpose. This isn't a 'Mercadona don't sell HP sauce' type whinge. The drivers around here are deadly and simply have no idea about the rules of the road. Maybe if the theory test included more questions about signs and right of way and other things people need to use every day, instead of pointless questions about what pedestrians might possibly do, there would be fewer accidents.


I totally agree. The theory test here is diabolically ridiculous, and yet when you finally get behind the wheel, you are not taught hill starts, 3-point turns and all manner of other important road skills.

In Feb's Cosmo it was suggested that 97% of the population here would fail a driving test if they had to sit one again. The powers that be want to bring in re-tests every so-many-years. What a money-spinner that would be for them.


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## AllHeart

stefig said:


> I do think there should be a more or less standardised driving test, yes.


Like I said, I don't think people will ever come to an agreement on one standardised test. Look how different countries in the EU have such different laws on just the issue of impaired driving (see chart mid-page):

EMCDDA | Legal approaches to drugs and driving



stefig said:


> In my eyes, the Spanish theory test is not fit for purpose. This isn't a 'Mercadona don't sell HP sauce' type whinge. The drivers around here are deadly and simply have no idea about the rules of the road. Maybe if the theory test included more questions about signs and right of way and other things people need to use every day, instead of pointless questions about what pedestrians might possibly do, there would be fewer accidents.


As far as drivers being horrible in Spain, according to a study by the WHO in 2013, the fatalities aren't much different from the UK. (From here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_traffic-related_death_rate)

To me it's the same whinge as the HP sauce. Suck it up. How do you think I feel, really? I will feel so very, very fortunate if I am given the chance to write this test! I agree that it's a not a great test, as I said many times earlier, but in the grand scheme of things in this messed up world, is it really that big of a deal?! To me, it isn't. 

On a lighter note, I did one of the UK tests and split a gut at this question...

_While waiting at a pelican crossing, an elderly person begins to cross the street. When the traffic lights turn to green, they are only halfway across the road. Do you:


Rev the car's engine so they cross the road more quickly
Give the person a wave that signals they should cross as quickly as possible
Flash your headlights so the person is aware you are waiting
Remain stationary until they have reached a pedestrian footpath
_
(P.S. I think it's really cool that they have crossings for pelicans in the UK. We don't have them in Canada.)


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## snikpoh

AllHeart said:


> (P.S. I think it's really cool that they have crossings for pelicans in the UK. We don't have them in Canada.)



Don't forget the poor old Zebras - they have their own crossings too !


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## AllHeart

Madliz said:


> I totally agree. The theory test here is diabolically ridiculous, and yet when you finally get behind the wheel, you are not taught hill starts, 3-point turns and all manner of other important road skills.
> 
> In Feb's Cosmo it was suggested that 97% of the population here would fail a driving test if they had to sit one again. The powers that be want to bring in re-tests every so-many-years. What a money-spinner that would be for them.


What's cosmo? In Canada that's the magazine Cosmopolitan. Is it the same here?

Do you know for sure they don't test for those things on the practical?


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## mrypg9

I haven't read through this thread as I took my test many decades ago (my son says it was in the days when you had to have a man with a red flag walking in front of your car and thinks that might be good idea still for some drivers).
But...does the Spanish driving test involve being told that the little stalk on your steering column is a useful device which, when correctly activated i.e. being gently pushed up or down depending on direction of turn will flash and therefore can give other road users a clear indication of your intentions when pulling out or turning?
Or is it that drivers fear that overuse or indeed any use might damage the complex mechanism?
Or are they optional extras on most Spanish vehicles?
Just asking..

Enraged of Estepona, sick of being pulled out on and across and cut up on roundabouts.


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## baldilocks

Lynn R said:


> At the moment, I am being driven crazy by trying to contact a major insurance company about a pension I am due to take in June. I replied to a letter they sent me about what I wished to do with the pension, and they just sent me another copy of the original letter outlining all the options and another copy of the 3 leaflets which accompanied it. They want me to phone them on a UK number and when I do I invariably get a recorded message to the effect that they will put me through to an adviser as soon as possible but I am likely to have to wait 20 minutes - some days it's 30 minutes. Never have I had such bad service from a Spanish company.


Try DWP Newcastle - ghastly system and service. I complained direct to the Secretary of State (IDS) and was appointed a Customer Care chappy that I can telephone or e-mail direct and get results. Now trying to get similar sense out of HMRC




Lynn R said:


> But I agree with you, spending time and energy fulminating about things we don't like about the ways various systems work in Spain is pretty pointless and achieves exactly nothing except raising our blood pressure.


BUT if you just sit back and say "c'est la vie" then it will never change. That is one of the problems with us Brits, we just sit back and take it. We need to be more pro-active as I am trying to be except that it breaks "forum rules" about getting our postal voting papers in time for us to use them. I am normally a quiet timid person but when something gets up my nose... and, Yes, I have had changes made at times but one has to stand up and be counted.


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## Madliz

AllHeart said:


> What's cosmo? In Canada that's the magazine Cosmopolitan. Is it the same here?
> 
> Do you know for sure they don't test for those things on the practical?


Yes, it's Cosmopolitan. Don't ask me why, but they give away free copies of recent issues in my local garden centre!

They aren't taught these skills because they are not in the test. Both my kids passed their tests here and it was a real eye-opener for me.


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## Lynn R

baldilocks said:


> Try DWP Newcastle - ghastly system and service. I complained direct to the Secretary of State (IDS) and was appointed a Customer Care chappy that I can telephone or e-mail direct and get results. Now trying to get similar sense out of HMRC


Well, as I said earlier, my OH has had occasion to deal with the DWP in Newcastle on several occasions over the last two years, and they have never been anything other than quick to respond, very pleasant and helpful, and efficient. The latest example was just this week when he contacted them because his UK state pension had not arrived in his Spanish bank account. It turned out to be a mistake on the part of Banco Sabadell (he has just arrived back from visiting the branch, seething).

On the other hand, Friend Life insurance company continue to take the prize for appalling customer service. I filled in their online complaints form detailing the problems I was having, and received a reply this Wednesday, more than two weeks later, through the post. The letter was dated 19 February and said that a personal complaints handler was to be assigned to me, and would be contacting me. Guess what, a week later and I have heard nothing from anybody, so they don't appear to be exactly falling over themselves to sort this out. Their letter, by the way, was a single sheet of paper sent in a large, heavy white A4 sized envelope. And people complain about waste in the public sector!


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## AllHeart

Madliz said:


> Yes, it's Cosmopolitan. Don't ask me why, but they give away free copies of recent issues in my local garden centre!
> 
> They aren't taught these skills because they are not in the test. Both my kids passed their tests here and it was a real eye-opener for me.


How was it an eye-opener?

Do they have that cosmo article online? I'm just not convinced that drivers are worse in Spain, as I've never seen anything online about it, other than on this forum. But from what I've seen, they remind me of drivers in New York City and Montreal - not quite as bad as Mexico though!


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## AllHeart

Earlier in the thread we were talking about which countries can swap licences with Spain. I posted the list from an article in 2014, as I couldn't find the official list. But I just found the official list:

República Argelina Democrática y Popular, República Argentina, República de Bolivia, República de Chile, República de Colombia, República de Ecuador, Reino de Marruecos, República de Nicaragua, República de Perú, República Dominicana, República de Panamá, República de Paraguay, República de Uruguay, República Bolivariana de Venezuela, República Federativa de Brasil, República de El Salvador, República de Filipinas, República de Guatemala, República de Serbia, República de Turquía, Túnez, Ucrania, Macedonia.

From here: https://sede.dgt.gob.es/es/tramites-y-multas/permiso-de-conduccion/canje-de-permisos/otros.shtml

(I often wish I had the option to like my own posts  )


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## Pazcat

Spain is by far the worse for driving that I have encountered aside from Paris highways at rush hour but that is somewhat different.

No doubt there are worse places so I guess it depends what you are used to but having driven in the UK, France, Belgium, Netherlands, Crete and Australia for comparison Spain is the only place that daily I encounter something that requires you to act in some way or another to avoid an accident.
I have become a total passive driver here because nobody else is and I would be worried if my wife or kids had to drive on these roads with these people.
A large majority are good but dear me a lot are bad.


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## baldilocks

IMHO so much depends on where you are in Spain. In or near cities (our experience is of Granada, Sevilla, Jaén, Málaga, Barcelona, Córdoba) we have found the rush, rush, rush attitude that we had in UK. In the more rural areas, this is not the case and driving from here to Granada, it is a very gentle pleasant journey until you pass the outskirts of Granada and this is in the rush hours between 0800 and 0930. 

In the villages (I know that it annoys some) it is not uncommon, for a vehicle to stop because the driver needs to speak to somebody or vice versa. In this case you exercise a little patience because just round the corner, hey there's the builder that you need to speak to, so it is your turn to delay the traffic for a couple of minutes. That is what is meant by 'mañana' - it doesn't just mean 'tomorrow,' it has connotations that say 'relax, so you don't get chance to do everything today, there is always tomorrow.' Yes, it means "RELAX" why try to die before it is your turn?


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## mrypg9

baldilocks;9542362
In the villages (I know that it annoys some) it is not uncommon said:


> That happens a lot in our village, which has only one 'through' street. It used to annoy me until I realised that there are 'rules' regulating this practice.
> It seems that conversations up to two minutes or so are reasonable and should be accommodated. But I've noticed that after that time a light touch of the horn is in order. If that is ignored another slightly more urgent toot.
> And after that head out of window and remonstration, tone depending on whether the offenders are known to the waiting motorist.


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## kalohi

Pazcat said:


> Spain is by far the worse for driving that I have encountered aside from Paris highways at rush hour but that is somewhat different.
> 
> No doubt there are worse places so I guess it depends what you are used to but having driven in the UK, France, Belgium, Netherlands, Crete and Australia for comparison Spain is the only place that daily I encounter something that requires you to act in some way or another to avoid an accident.
> I have become a total passive driver here because nobody else is and I would be worried if my wife or kids had to drive on these roads with these people.
> A large majority are good but dear me a lot are bad.


My only other experience driving is in the NE of the United States, and IMO it's worse than driving in Spain. I would even say that driving in Boston is MUCH worse than driving in any Spanish city - the drivers are maniacs there. Definitely not for the faint hearted!

So I am amazed to hear all these complaints about Spanish drivers. Driving here seems easy-peasy to me.


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## mrypg9

kalohi said:


> My only other experience driving is in the NE of the United States, and IMO it's worse than driving in Spain. I would even say that driving in Boston is MUCH worse than driving in any Spanish city - the drivers are maniacs there. Definitely not for the faint hearted!
> 
> So I am amazed to hear all these complaints about Spanish drivers. Driving here seems easy-peasy to me.


I think driving in Germany is safest. People drive fast but with respect for others and for road traffic laws. There used to be a law banning heavy goods vehicles from Autobahns over weekends, don't know if there still is.
NYC seems a nightmare. I've seen several collisions where the drivers just get out, inspect the damage which is usually minor as no-one can go very fast because of all the traffic, yell 'Mother****er' at each other, get back in their cars and drive slowly on.
I used to regularly drive in Central London where the main problem isn't so much moving as sitting around in jams, in spite of Johnson's Congestion charge.


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## Pesky Wesky

Pazcat said:


> No doubt there are worse places so I guess it depends what you are used to


Yes, there are.
Portugal


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## Madliz

AllHeart said:


> How was it an eye-opener?
> 
> Do they have that cosmo article online? I'm just not convinced that drivers are worse in Spain, as I've never seen anything online about it, other than on this forum. But from what I've seen, they remind me of drivers in New York City and Montreal - not quite as bad as Mexico though!


I didn't mean it was en eye-opener that they passed.  
Rather that the tuition and testing surprised me. The absurd theory test and yet the lack of good driving technique in the practical.

The article I referred to does not appear to be online, although there's plenty of sex.


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## Pazcat

Pesky Wesky said:


> Yes, there are.
> Portugal


I haven't been yet but want to, I can easily believe that. 
The med areas I have been all tends to be a bit chaotic really.

South of France is a mess on the roads along the coast, I would certainly complain too if I had to live there.
Crete as well, I wouldn't say they are not dangerous and obey the rules but there is an unwritten code there and at no point did I feel scared, it was fun almost.

Italy I have never been but does anyone actually think driving in Rome seems like a good idea?

I guess too we live on the coast and that is a big holiday area which doesn't help. People change on holiday.
The Spanish people we know say the Madridilenos are the worst on the roads but from what I can tell that is a term they use for all of the Spanish holiday makers not just from Madrid.


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## baldilocks

Pesky Wesky said:


> Yes, there are.
> Portugal


I didn't particularly feel that drivers in Portugal were bad. When last there, for real (2000,) there was a lot of road building going on and that meant the existing roads were a bit rough and chaotic with poor or lack of, signs.


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## Pesky Wesky

Pazcat said:


> I haven't been yet but want to, I can easily believe that.
> The med areas I have been all tends to be a bit chaotic really.
> 
> South of France is a mess on the roads along the coast, I would certainly complain too if I had to live there.
> Crete as well, I wouldn't say they are not dangerous and obey the rules but there is an unwritten code there and at no point did I feel scared, it was fun almost.
> 
> Italy I have never been but does anyone actually think driving in Rome seems like a good idea?
> 
> I guess too we live on the coast and that is a big holiday area which doesn't help. People change on holiday.
> The Spanish people we know say the Madridilenos are the worst on the roads but from what I can tell that is a term they use for all of the Spanish holiday makers not just from Madrid.


I don't drive in Madrid, even though that's where I learnt. We are big advocates of public transport not only for ecological reasons, but also because we have good, cheap public transport and parking in Madrid can cost you a lot of money and time.
However, I drive _around _Madrid all the time. I wouldn't say that the driving's great, and people make a lot of mistakes like not using indicators, but the greatest offence is driving too fast and that's similar to what I see here in WSM, with the difference that here it seems to be young immature drivers and in Spain it's older drivers. Which is worse, I'm not sure.
The other thing is that I think there are more well maintained roads in Spain and there is much less traffic_ in general. _Going to the airport in Madrid is incredible for example. The motorway is empty


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## Pesky Wesky

baldilocks said:


> I didn't particularly feel that drivers in Portugal were bad. When last there, for real (2000,) there was a lot of road building going on and that meant the existing roads were a bit rough and chaotic with poor or lack of, signs.


That as well!


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## baldilocks

Pesky Wesky said:


> I don't drive in Madrid, even though that's where I learnt. We are big advocates of public transport not only for ecological reasons, but also because we have good, cheap public transport and parking in Madrid can cost you a lot of money and time.
> However, I drive _around _Madrid all the time. I wouldn't say that the driving's great, and people make a lot of mistakes like not using indicators, but the greatest offence is driving too fast and that's similar to what I see here in WSM, with the difference that here it seems to be young immature drivers and in Spain it's older drivers. Which is worse, I'm not sure.
> The other thing is that I think there are more well maintained roads in Spain and there is much less traffic_ in general. _Going to the airport in Madrid is incredible for example. The motorway is empty


I have never driven *in* Madrid, only round it usually on the M50 going either from A1 to R4 or vice versa or R4- A6 and I have found that is excellent provided you have a navigator keeping an eye on the signs.


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## Justina

*Nuns*



Pazcat said:


> I haven't been yet but want to, I can easily believe that.
> The med areas I have been all tends to be a bit chaotic really.
> 
> South of France is a mess on the roads along the coast, I would certainly complain too if I had to live there.
> Crete as well, I wouldn't say they are not dangerous and obey the rules but there is an unwritten code there and at no point did I feel scared, it was fun almost.
> 
> Italy I have never been but does anyone actually think driving in Rome seems like a good idea?
> 
> I guess too we live on the coast and that is a big holiday area which doesn't help. People change on holiday.
> The Spanish people we know say the Madridilenos are the worst on the roads but from what I can tell that is a term they use for all of the Spanish holiday makers not just from Madrid.


Have you never seen the hilarious piccie of a bunch of nuns crossing a very busy road in Rome?


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## Pazcat

lol, no but it sounds interesting.
I googled but maybe didn't use the right key words.


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## AllHeart

I googled it too and couldn't find it. But I found this and love it!


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