# Migrants Passing through Mexico



## coondawg (May 1, 2014)

My wife and I have noticed several "migrants" that are obviously from other countries (some with women and children) at various intersections in Leon, "panhandling". This has been a regular occurrence for some months, and actually seems to be increasing. We also see, maybe every 7-10 days, old VW vans loaded with people stopped at some "convenience" stores and my wife tells me that these people are not Mexican. Has anyone else noticed the influx of "foreigners" moving North? The local police are not interested in them, or it doesn't appear that is so. Nor State, or Federal.


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

yes Tuxtla has been having a large influx of migrants . Saw a lot of them in DF but I have no point of referrence there and do not know if there is an increase there.


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

citlali said:


> yes Tuxtla has been having a large influx of migrants . Saw a lot of them in DF but I have no point of referrence there and do not know if there is an increase there.


Where did you see them in the DF?


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

Isla Verde said:


> Where did you see them in the DF?


I used to commonly see them in Querétaro Centro. I also occasionally see migrant families in Guadalajara.


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

They were in the center begging near a church, said they wanted to go on to the US and that the church had clothed them and fed them .


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## niaziwal (Mar 3, 2015)

coondawg said:


> My wife and I have noticed several "migrants" that are obviously from other countries (some with women and children) at various intersections in Leon, "panhandling". This has been a regular occurrence for some months, and actually seems to be increasing. We also see, maybe every 7-10 days, old VW vans loaded with people stopped at some "convenience" stores and my wife tells me that these people are not Mexican. Has anyone else noticed the influx of "foreigners" moving North? The local police are not interested in them, or it doesn't appear that is so. Nor State, or Federal.


 if they crossed the border then how can they manage inside usa , what about authorities, the authorities dont ask about visa or other legal documents


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## RVGRINGO (May 16, 2007)

They are in Mexico, according to the post above. Many “migrants“ pass through Mexico illegally, attempting to get to the USA.


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

RVGRINGO said:


> They are in Mexico, according to the post above. Many “migrants“ pass through Mexico illegally, attempting to get to the USA.


And if they manage to get into the US without being caught by US Immigration, they have to live a furtive, clandestine existence and worry about being deported if they are found to be living in the States illegally.


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## regwill (Jul 2, 2013)

Isla Verde said:


> And if they manage to get into the US without being caught by US Immigration, they have to live a furtive, clandestine existence and worrying about being deported if they are found to be living in the States illegally.


Isla Verde , I do not know about the rest of the country , but in Denver , they do not live a furtive ,clandestine existence . They may worry about being deported , but they go about their daily life just like you are I .


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

regwill said:


> Isla Verde , I do not know about the rest of the country , but in Denver , they do not live a furtive ,clandestine existence . They may worry about being deported , but they go about their daily life just like you are I .


I was thinking more about their mental state than how they deal with life from day to day. Thanks for your comments about how Mexicans "sin papeles" live in Denver.


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

Actually in just about any town in California you can go and pick up undocumented workers at or around the Catholic Church. The migra knows exactly where they are and unless there is a denunciation do not do anything,
When we got busted at the winery I worked for, the migra came and knew exactly the percentage of undocumented workers we might have. They told me they were there because someone had complained (an unhappy worker who was Mexican but had papers) 
Undocumented workers do not have to live in the shadow as a rule but they do run the risk of deportation when the businesses they work for are busted.


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## coondawg (May 1, 2014)

2 of my wife's brothers have been illegal for 12-15 years in California. They are not at all worried about being deported. They go about life (their wives and children) just like anyone else. They even go to Vegas every year for vacation. Basically, all opportunities are open to them. We believe (wife and I) that many illegals NOB that claim they live in depression, fear, etc. have been "put up to that" as a way of trying to get "amnesty" or support from the government. Just 2 people's opinion.


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

No not all oportunities are not offered to them , they cannot get any job where unions are involved. I know a kid who is a great metal worker but could not get a job in his field and his is an artist as well because the Union would not accept him so he did sheetrock...
Many undocumented workers are underpaid on large farms, live like dogs. In one instance in one of the vieyard in Sonoma , a friend of mine offered to undocumented workers the winery barn for them to sleep and the country busted them because the barn did not have proper sanitaries and was not fit for human habitation meanwhile these guys were sleeping in cars and ditches..
Mondavi organized some migrant caps but some of the condition the rural workers ( they are all undocumented because no US citizen will take the job or is capable of keeping up the pace) are deplorable.
The workers are paid by the ton they harvest or by the piece and a lot of it is back breaking work and they can be deported and it cost them a lot of mony to come back..
I sure would want to be in many of these people´s shoes. Some other are luckier and have decent job but it is not true for many of them.
I worked and lived in the wine country either Napa or Sonoma for a very long time and if the jobs are so great why could´nt we find any US citizens or greencard holders to fill the jobs?


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## coondawg (May 1, 2014)

By opportunities, I was not referring to work, as many jobs have "special" requirements and most people are going to pay these illegals less than others. I was referring to being able to go to Las Vegas, the movies, concerts, restaurants, church, doctors, parks, etc. Pretty much the same thing as a citizen can do (if they have the required money and transportation, etc.). I can only speak for the ones we know first hand. Sorry I didn't spell it out.


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## GARYJ65 (Feb 9, 2013)

I dont think those are opportunities, I think they are opportunistic, and take advantage of things they are not legally entitled to have or enjoy
That os not the right way to do things, that os not the right things to teach their sons and daughters, I know the system is wrong and bla bla, but until we change it, that is the law.
Once again, they are uninvited people that crawled their way into our Countries and then expect to be treated as important visitors with all rights assured


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## coondawg (May 1, 2014)

I understand what you are saying, Gary. Many people, in countries where there are "illegals," feel that way. Do we respect the law, or just the laws we like? Does "the rule of law" exist in Mexico and NOB, or in neither?


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

The sysem is broken and needs fixing. If hiring undocumented workers is breaking the law many many companies are breaking the laws.Check to start with the garment industry , hospitality industry food industry, construction, agriculture, all the houses having domestic employees wether cleaning people or gardners, they are all breaking the laws what is their punishment for breaking the law? None ..no the laws are not for everyone and undocumented are unfairly targeted.
If there were no jobs they would not come.
If undocumented are punished so should the employers, maybe that would put some fire under coming up with reforms to the system. 

In France employers get big fines for hiring undocumented in he US the Migra works with the companies not to catch the undocumented at an inconvenient time. i know that one for a fact as the migra would call me before showing up on te property. 
Back in te 70´s the migra would show up and take people away in the 90´s and from what I here now they call before showing up.
Meanwhile wether France or the US there are plenty of undocumented living there so neither system work..

Mexico I do not know but it does not look like it works either.


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## GARYJ65 (Feb 9, 2013)

That's what I mean
The system sucks
It has to be changed immediately, but they (people that can change it) would not do it, they make meetings, summits, get together to "discuss" the problem, they come out with nothing. Bunch of idiots, and we are paying their salaries.
Is that what they went to school for? Is that what we deserve?
Is it really REALLY so complicated to solve?
Employers hire illegal workers, and...nothing, we all know it, we all talk about it, nothing is done
Illegals do not have the same rights, sometimes they are treated like slaves, no social security, no social benefits, officially they don't exist, not in Mexico, not in Spain, France, the US

Probably we have what we deserve


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## Longford (May 25, 2012)

Illegal immigration to the USA originating in Mexico has declined in recent years, while illegal immigration to the USA originating in Central America has been more or less constant. Enforcement against illegal aliens from Mexico and Central America has been more rigidly enforced in recent years in the USA. What may have transpired 40 years ago has no relevance to what the situation is today. I'm a supporter of stricter enforcement when it comes to the illegals, removing and/or severely penalizing them ... and more importantly dealing harshly with those who employ illegal aliens. I also support moves to prohibit children born in the USA of a mother in the country illegally from being considered a USA citizen.


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

Longford said:


> Illegal immigration to the USA originating in Mexico has declined in recent years, while illegal immigration to the USA originating in Central America has been more or less constant. Enforcement against illegal aliens from Mexico and Central America has been more rigidly enforced in recent years in the USA. What may have transpired 40 years ago has no relevance to what the situation is today. I'm a supporter of stricter enforcement when it comes to the illegals, removing and/or severely penalizing them ... and more importantly dealing harshly with those who employ illegal aliens. I also support moves to prohibit children born in the USA of a mother in the country illegally from being considered a USA citizen.


Except for Native American Indians, everyone in the US is a child of an illegal immigrant.

If we actually enforced laws against hiring undocumented workers, the country would grind to a halt. We would have to open the borders to Mexico so that people could come in legally and fill all the empty positions. So it might have a desirable outcome, once we got past the chaos.


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## coondawg (May 1, 2014)

TundraGreen said:


> Except for Native American Indians, everyone in the US is a child of an illegal immigrant..


Is that ONLY true for the US? Could it also be true for all Latin American countries, and maybe most, if not all, countries in the world?

To ignore the law is not the way that a Nation needs to operate. That is how Mexico has operated for many years. Look where that has taken Mexico. Now, the US is ignoring laws, where has that taken them?

The rule of law must be maintained for a country to survive. IMHO.


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## coondawg (May 1, 2014)

TundraGreen said:


> If we actually enforced laws against hiring undocumented workers, the country would grind to a halt.


I don't believe that is true, but you are entitled to your opinion. If the Congress (BOTH Democrats and Republicans) did their job, and the President enforced the laws on the books, we would be much better off. Neither of these things is happening NOB. They are all taking our money and giving us nothing for it. And, we take it. As Gary says, maybe we get what we deserve. But, I can have no respect for anyone who suggests we deliberately ignore a law of the USA, just because they can't get it changed to suit them. Then all those people who gave their lives to found the USA died for nothing. IMHO.


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## niaziwal (Mar 3, 2015)

If someone have life threat in their own country like someone from afghanistan have threats from militants in afghanistan and manage to arrive usa by crossing boder , will the immigration authoritise deports


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

It all dependss but the place to ask is the US Consulate in Mexico CIty not this forum as known of us are in that circumstance, I would not count on being let in especially since that person would be in Mexico or Canada and therefore their life would not be threatened.
Many people in Mxico have their life threatened and are not given visas.


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

coondawg said:


> Is that ONLY true for the US? Could it also be true for all Latin American countries, and maybe most, if not all, countries in the world?
> 
> To ignore the law is not the way that a Nation needs to operate. That is how Mexico has operated for many years. Look where that has taken Mexico. Now, the US is ignoring laws, where has that taken them?
> 
> The rule of law must be maintained for a country to survive. IMHO.


Actually, even the Native Americans/Indigenous came here from someplace else, although, you could argue that since there were no humans here before them, they took the land legally, unlike the rest of us.

I agree with you that ignoring laws is not the way a nation should operate. Only, it is the laws that need changing, not the enforcment. When laws are universally broken, it is a sign that the laws are wrong. Look at prohibition as an example. You can't legislate changes in behavior. As long as companies need labor and Mexicans need jobs, there is going to be a flow of people north to work. And don't kid yourself that unemployed urban US kids are going to spend the day in the hot sun picking crops, or cleaning hotel rooms, or you name it.

If the border was more open, workers would be able to come and go freely to meet the demands of the labor market. The day the border opened there would be a net flow south as all of the people who haven't seen their families for years came to Mexico for a visit, secure in the knowledge they could go back to their job afterwards.


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

niaziwal said:


> If someone have life threat in their own country like someone from afghanistan have threats from militants in afghanistan and manage to arrive usa by crossing boder , will the immigration authoritise deports


As Citlali said, you probably are not going to get a definitive answer here. Personally, I wonder if your application for political asylum might be undermined by the fact that you are coming in from Mexico rather than directly from Afghanistan. The authorities could argue that whatever the danger in Afghanistan, you aren't subject to it in Mexico. In other words, once one country has accepted a political refugee, what motivation is there for a second country to allow it.


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## coondawg (May 1, 2014)

niaziwal said:


> If someone have life threat in their own country like someone from afghanistan have threats from militants in afghanistan and manage to arrive usa by crossing boder , will the immigration authoritise deports


I think you have a big problem in the fact that "if" you were running from danger, why did you not go to Europe, or somewhere closer?


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## niaziwal (Mar 3, 2015)

In fact i have tried to get europ visa but denied , i just have mexico visa . Thats why m interested in usa


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## coondawg (May 1, 2014)

TundraGreen said:


> I agree with you that ignoring laws is not the way a nation should operate. Only, it is the laws that need changing,


 That is just your opinion(and others)(and you are entitled to it), but many, many NOB do not agree with THAT. That is why we have a Congress, to address the Laws, and make changes when they deem it necessary, not when citizens deem it necessary. And, the President is charged with enforcing those laws until they change. 



TundraGreen said:


> When laws are universally broken, it is a sign that the laws are wrong.


 Maybe, or, maybe it is a sign that those who are charged with enforcing those laws are taking people's money and not doing the job they are paid to do. (You will find about half the people in the USA agree that the laws on the books on immigration need to be enforced as stated, and when THAT is done, they are willing to seriously(at least I am) discuss making changes) But, not before. Everything, Will, over time needs to at least be "tweaked". 



TundraGreen said:


> Look at prohibition as an example. You can't legislate changes in behavior.


I do understand about prohibition and that people grew tired of the "fight" and the corruption that it brought. Money "buys" a lot. Look at Mexico. Look NOB. But, Bill, I think one can legislate behavior, at least in some areas where there is control. I think "control" is the secret. If you can "control" the environment, then you can demand what behavior is acceptable, or you are removed from the environment. Tough fight, the larger the scale. We did it with our children and the MAGIC word for success was "CONSISTENCY", or you fail. That has happened on our Border.

The U. of Texas Football coach has 5 core values: (1) treat women with respect, (2) no guns, (3) no stealing, (4)no drugs, (5)be honest. He says "do what I ask you to do. It is not hard, and it is right". Failure to follow these values and they are removed from football (even the super stars). Didn't take him long as a new coach to make believers( lost about 12 players from the 85 on scholarship). Are there some who won't follow the values? There will always be a few in every environment, but that is life. The others will be sure to change their behavior, when football and a "free" education can open doors of life for them and means a lot to them. It can be done.



TundraGreen said:


> As long as companies need labor and Mexicans need jobs, there is going to be a flow of people north to work.


I agree 100% with that statement. But, if I am not mistaken, there are laws that allow people to come to work here now, no? They just are not being enforced. Other countries have "worker programs" and seem to do ok. I can't see a problem with the USA doing so too. Mexico does it also. The problem seems to be enforcement, again, and we, as a Nation, do not do what is necessary for it to succeed. That is our own fault, as Gary suggests.



TundraGreen said:


> And don't kid yourself that unemployed urban US kids are going to spend the day in the hot sun picking crops, or cleaning hotel rooms, or you name it.


Surely you jest, Bill ! No one could ever believe that to be true. That dog won't hunt, here or anywhere else. 



TundraGreen said:


> If the border was more open, workers would be able to come and go freely to meet the demands of the labor market.


There (as I said) are laws that allow workers to come and go now, just not being enforced. 



TundraGreen said:


> The day the border opened there would be a net flow south as all of the people who haven't seen their families for years came to Mexico for a visit, secure in the knowledge they could go back to their job afterwards.


Just as sure as you are that the laws are broken, I am also sure that the US, as we have known it and had the wonderful fortune to be born there and to grow up there, and to have such a great education there (speaking only for myself, my family, those that I consider close), will cease to exist. I never want to live in fear like many places in Europe and other areas in the world. I have NEVER experienced that in 72 years, and I do not want that for my children, or for yours. I would give my life at any moment to try and prevent that from ever happening.


Sadly, the world is not a place that has "brotherly love" for different races, religions, etc. We have experienced that in the US and still do, maybe more so in the last few years than at any time previously. However, that is on a much smaller scale than exists worldwide. There is tremendous hatred for Americans out there. Have we caused it(that is a moot point). It exists. Ask Gary.

You are betting nothing bad will ever happen. You are here in Mexico and staking the lives of my children and grandchildren NOB on your beliefs to "open the border". I could NEVER do that with your children. Because, Bill, once something bad were to happen, I could never bring back your loved ones for my mistake.


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## coondawg (May 1, 2014)

niaziwal said:


> In fact i have tried to get europ visa but denied , i just have mexico visa . Thats why m interested in usa


 Must be a reason you were denied in Europe.


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## coondawg (May 1, 2014)

coondawg said:


> Sorry, WILL, I tried to "edit"" Bill", but I was too late. No offense intended.


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

coondawg said:


> Sorry, WILL, I tried to "edit"" Bill", but I was too late. No offense intended.


None taken.


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