# Where did you choose?



## jack&jill (Apr 5, 2016)

Beginning research on where to move from from Kent to Spain & we, a couple plus plump Spaniel, wanting to move abroad for more beautiful, less built up surroundings, adventure & a milder, dryer climate, though the clouds will be relieved to hear, some rain is acceptable. We love the idea of exploring new lives, an ancestor captained a ship of the Armada, remiss but we've not been back since so it may be time to give the bad news, 'Armada - failure - the invasion is contrariwise, sorry.' We know nothing and would love to learn from you, where in Spain have you chosen & how is life there for you?

Our minds are open to moving to all regions of Spain and we'd love to hear from you & any pointers you may have on where is great to go.


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## WestCoastCanadianGirl (Mar 17, 2012)

I've moved this to the Spain branch for you in hopes that you'll get some good feedback.

Good luck and happy travels to you!


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## jack&jill (Apr 5, 2016)

Thanks, we got lost before we even started


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## 90199 (Mar 21, 2010)

We live in probably the remotest part of Spanish territories, the most southerly and westerly part of the Canary Islands. Most unlikely to be the place that you would want to settle, however have a look at the photos on the below link, who knows maybe a visit one fine day.


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## jack&jill (Apr 5, 2016)

We were talking about El Hierro this morning, climate perfection etc, hope you're very happy there, we love the photos, utterly stunning and it is certainly somewhere we'd contemplate, thanks.


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## 90199 (Mar 21, 2010)

jack&jill said:


> We were talking about El Hierro this morning, climate perfection etc, hope you're very happy there, we love the photos, utterly stunning and it is certainly somewhere we'd contemplate, thanks.



Really!!, well in that case……………..

El Hierro has only six or seven U.K. residents, we are the only English couple on the island. Being a remote island with a small population, most of the bureaucracy has evolved in a different way here and some on the forum have wondered if El Hierro is part of Spain, well at the moment, yes we are, but different.

The tourist industry that the other islands encountered has passed us by, consequently the island has retained its unique Canary Island culture and charm, crime is almost unknown, the locals are very polite and friendly, people here smile, the young ones respect their elders.

English is not often spoken, the Canary island version of the Spanish language, is essential.
Work is difficult to find so an income is essential.

The down side is that we are remote, travel can be difficult, a plane or a ferry has to be taken, and like this very day, we were unable to fulfill an appointment in Tenerife due to adverse weather conditions on Tenerife northern airport.

So if you have any questions, or I can help, fire away, either P.M. or here on the forum,

H.


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## jack&jill (Apr 5, 2016)

Thanks Hepa, you paint a lovely picture, sounds like an ideal society. Language is no problem for us, I'll learn & enjoy making an ass of myself if it can amuse anyone. We'll certainly get back to you when we get more of an idea of where else we want to explore further. It's easy to fall for a cheap but stunningly located & beautiful cortijo within it's own breathtaking mountain paradise - which we have - but I want to participate in Spanish life & am open to moving to a town, village, mountain crag, or desert and knowing very little of the regions we want to know much more before we think further. Good to hear from you, from very dank Cumbria temporarily.


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## jack&jill (Apr 5, 2016)

Another thought, El Hierro is certainly breathtaking, but so is a lot of Spain, at least i could vacantly dribble for England over half the photos we've seen, so what in particular drew you to El Hierro rather than anywhere else?


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## jack&jill (Apr 5, 2016)

And did you contemplate anywhere else in Spain to begin with? And if so, what made you finally plump for your new & beautiful island home?


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## Madliz (Feb 4, 2011)

We moved from Hertfordshire to the northern part of Madrid province, in the foothills of the Sierra de Guadarrama, 20 years ago. We have ski slopes 20 minutes away, Madrid is 30 minutes away (on a good day!), we enjoy clean mountain air, guaranteed summers, four proper seasons and perhaps some snow in the winter. There are a wealth of monuments within easy reach, such as the monastery of San Lorenzo in El Escorial, constructed by Philip II and used as his summer palace. Completed in 1584, it was the largest building in the world and was known as the 8th wonder of the world.

I'm now selling up to move nearer to family :fingerscrossed:, but I've loved my time here.


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## 90199 (Mar 21, 2010)

jack&jill said:


> Another thought, El Hierro is certainly breathtaking, but so is a lot of Spain, at least i could vacantly dribble for England over half the photos we've seen, so what in particular drew you to El Hierro rather than anywhere else?


I first came to the Canary Isles in 1962, I came from Trindad on a Shell oil tanker, to Las Palmas de Gran Canaria, hence later in life Gran Canaria became our winter holiday destination, then we explored the other islands, eventually finding El Hierro in 1995. Once here that was it, we came back year after year. We bought in 2000/1 and here we are now.

El Hierro for us is unique, people do not lock their cars, handbags telephones are left on the bar whilst ladies use the rest room. The humor of the people, the way they have accepted us, this is where we belong.

My father, he lived in Moraira, near Javea in Spain, i thought of that area, but it is cheaper and a year round better climate here, with less stress and less crime. Gran Canaria came into the frame, we return there several times a year, but we are always glad to return to the tranquility of El Hierro, hard to explain why, but it suits us. you have to experience the island and the people to understand. However many come here and absolutely hate the place, we don't have Tetleys beer, Iceland, or roast beef Bisto gravy, happy hour, British bars, thanks be to the gods


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## jack&jill (Apr 5, 2016)

Hi, ah it sounds lovely, the thought of how relaxing it must be to have next to no crime, to be able to trust people without worrying. Your story is very interesting, lovely to think of you on that boat from Trinidad about to find your future home, so colourful, it conjured lovely images. I can understand exactly why you chose it, thank you.


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## jack&jill (Apr 5, 2016)

Madliz said:


> We moved from Hertfordshire to the northern part of Madrid province, in the foothills of the Sierra de Guadarrama, 20 years ago. We have ski slopes 20 minutes away, Madrid is 30 minutes away (on a good day!), we enjoy clean mountain air, guaranteed summers, four proper seasons and perhaps some snow in the winter. There are a wealth of monuments within easy reach, such as the monastery of San Lorenzo in El Escorial, constructed by Philip II and used as his summer palace. Completed in 1584, it was the largest building in the world and was known as the 8th wonder of the world.
> 
> I'm now selling up to move nearer to family :fingerscrossed:, but I've loved my time here.


Thanks for responding MadLiz ah it sounds lovely, a shame you have to leave & can't force your family to come and live beside you whilst enquiring solicitously about how to best deliver your every whim, as families ought of course. We'll certainly have a look at the Sierra de Guadarrama. Beyond all the delights you've just told us about, which would induce anyone, what was it that made you decide this was the best place for you in Spain?


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## Madliz (Feb 4, 2011)

jack&jill said:


> Thanks for responding MadLiz ah it sounds lovely, a shame you have to leave & can't force your family to come and live beside you whilst enquiring solicitously about how to best deliver your every whim, as families ought of course. We'll certainly have a look at the Sierra de Guadarrama. Beyond all the delights you've just told us about, which would induce anyone, what was it that made you decide this was the best place for you in Spain?


I don't _have_ to leave, I _want_ to leave. The next chapter is calling, how exciting is that? Well, you know, obviously, as you are planning your next chapter. 

My future lies in Málaga, another jewel of the Iberian peninsular. I am now drawn to the Mediterranean and, how lucky am I to have family there to welcome me, as well as friends of old and new, and those still to become friends, I hope.

I arrived in Spain with my husband and children aged 2 & 4. It has been a wonderful place to raise a family. Our children have flown the nest - one within Spain and the other to the UK - and my husband sadly passed away several years ago. I don't ever want to leave Spain, but look forward to pastures new, not to mention the family administering to my every whim. Well, we all have dreams. 

I'm sure you'll love it too.


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## jack&jill (Apr 5, 2016)

Madliz said:


> I don't _have_ to leave, I _want_ to leave. The next chapter is calling, how exciting is that? Well, you know, obviously, as you are planning your next chapter.
> 
> My future lies in Málaga, another jewel of the Iberian peninsular. I am now drawn to the Mediterranean and, how lucky am I to have family there to welcome me, as well as friends of old and new, and those still to become friends, I hope.
> 
> ...


I am happy to read you're beginning a new exciting chapter rather than having to go home, my grandma left Cyprus to be with me as a baby and am sure Cyprus was more interesting than watching nappy changing in Highgate, dreary or what. Malaga looks stunning too, heavens above, one is spoilt for choice for beautiful locations. I wish you abundant pleasures in your new home. Gosh - where to begin, Spain really is a jewel, is going to be hard to choose.


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## Leper (May 12, 2010)

Hold on right there guys! Jack and Jill have supplied extremely little information. OK they asked questions and if it is answers to the questions only that are required stop reading this post now.

Where somebody wants to relocate and where somebody needs to relocate can be different things. So Jack and Jill:-
1. Do you need to work in Spain?
2. Do you need to rent out your Spanish property when you are not using it?
3. In what age bracket are you?
4. Do you know that if you are buying property in Spain you will have to do much research and probably some visit(s) to rent property in particular favourable areas just to confirm a good investment?
5. Can you survive in Spain without selling your UK home?

I haven't mentioned Spanish taxes. I have not referred to leaving the route to retreat (if necessary).

Please don't assume I am a bitter person (like a previous poster of which we have heard nothing since). I have seen too many English speaking people returning from whence they came much poorer but wiser that when they arrived.


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## jack&jill (Apr 5, 2016)

Thanks for your response, fascinating. However, we have a long list of questions for everyone, we obviously are here to learn from you all. But our circumstances are irelevant to this our first query or we would've outlined them.

We're keen to hear from people from all corners of Spain who are willing to share a snapshot of their chosen Spanish location & why they love it, as regions of Spain vary so much. Thanks for caring & sharing.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

When we first moved to Spain, I wanted a big villa, a swimming pool for the kids, a garden for the dogs and to live in the campo/country. Thats what we rented. Once the novelty wore off - suddenly we found we were having to drive everywhere (even to take the rubbish to the bins and pick up our post), the big house needed cleaning and heating, the pool and garden needed constant attention. Luckily we were only renting, so we moved to a smaller house in a village. That was great, it wasnt what I had dreamed of from my armchair in the UK, but it was much more practical for us. My children then changed schools, so we moved to the one place/thing I DIDNT want - to live in an urbanicion in Benalmadena (Torre Muelle)!!! But, we did, we found a place that I wasnt keen on, but "ticked the boxes" and it was perfect! Kids could walk to school, the beach, bars, restaurants, town, campo, bus stops, train station... were all within walking distance.

The motto of my story is try it first before you put down roots and think about the practicalities - not just the "dream"

Jo xxx


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## jack&jill (Apr 5, 2016)

However, for anyone interested, these are our circumstances.

We don't need to work.
We don't need to rent out any property bought in Spain.
We're in our 40's.
We obviously would visit all possible locations before buying, can't imagine anyone buying before exploring locations.
We would either sell or rent out our UK home in order to buy or rent in Spain. We imagine we will rent a Spanish property first, to be sure of location & that the adventure is a positive one for us. We have two houses to sell before moving, inherited and our home, but we own them outright. 
We know there are many potential pitfalls and so are starting research asap.

But first things first, we would love to hear about the regions through the eyes of those that live there.


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## jack&jill (Apr 5, 2016)

Thanks so much, that's what we're thinking, to rent and then see how we fit the dream, having lived abroad as a teen I know how quickly dreams wear off and everyday life takes over and soon those stunning mountains in the distance become as everyday to one as the streets of London. 
But we're starting off with the dream, where to go - and we'll go from there, sorting out the difficulties once we have a place to dream about. 

We've scoured this site for posts and read for hours at a time on all your experiences & now would love to start finding out more about our host nation and country & your experiences of the regions.

Not having children makes it all easier for us, though fat spaniels needs must be considered - I think our overall desire is for adventure, something new and more beautiful, new culture, people. 

Neither money nor convenience are a big priority for us, starting something refreshing & exciting is, we will be poor we know, we won't have the ordered efficiency of our daily lives we have now, we know, we want what matters more to us, friendly people, better climate, beautiful surroundings, new culture, even if we end up somewhere unforeseen as you have, you sound happy which is lovely to hear, a very interesting experience, thank you jojo.


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## jack&jill (Apr 5, 2016)

Jojo, it's fascinating that your adventure has taken you somewhere so unexpected, over your life in the UK, what is it that keeps you in Spain, enthused and enjoying it enough to make the transition worthwhile for you & yours?


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

I noticed you mentioned La Axarquia in your OP. The capital of that region, Vélez-Málaga, is where I chose (we bought our house in 2003 and moved over permanently in 2006 as early retirees). It wouldn't appeal to you as you mention not wanting somewhere built up, and this is a very large town, but we love it as we have every facility we could want within walking distance of our house, and excellent public transport links which was very important to me as I don't drive. The main regional hospital is also just 10 minutes down the road. At the same time, we live in the old historical quarter on a traffic free street, on a hill above the town so we have far-reaching panoramic views from our roof terrace, and it is very quiet. The town itself has no signs of the influences of mass tourism (we do have some but people mainly come here for the historical interest or because it's a convenient base for exploring the region) so no British bars, Chinese restaurants, etc. But the coast at Torre del Mar is only 20 minutes away by bus or 10 minutes by car, we can even walk there if we feel like it, when we want those things. Best of both worlds, we feel.


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## jack&jill (Apr 5, 2016)

To be clear, we are looking into the problems of living in Spain and all the things that can trip one up but before we get deep into nitty gritty we'd love to first find out about the country, the regions, possible locations and then how we can achieve, if we can achieve, a worthwhile life there. 

We may sound like pie eyed idiots and we maybe but we're certainly not going into this without finding out all we can, thanks for everyone's concern, but we want to take it a cautious step at a time & the first step is, for us, where and why?


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## jack&jill (Apr 5, 2016)

Hi Lyn, I should change what I wrote, only its not possible after 15 minutes, because we're doing our best to keep totally open minds about location, town, city, village, mountain top, one never knows where one might be happy. And your location does sound very inviting in a way we hadn't considered. Life long fascination with history, the stories of a landscape speak and bring it alive so living in an historic quarter sounds very exciting.

If you have the time, what are the pleasures of daily life that made the move worthwhile and have continue to do so? 

Are the people friendly? Have you made Spanish friends? Am wary of being isolated & not having doors to open to me, even as one can be anywhere, isolated amongst a sea of others, whereas my partner wouldn't notice. I really want to join in & look to see if there are opportunities to connect with others.


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## jack&jill (Apr 5, 2016)

Wow, velez-Malaga looks gorgeous, I certainly wouldn't discount it. Very beautiful indeedy. Loving both the countryside and town, makes it hard to choose but your location looks very inviting & we have been expecting to find life quite spartan in th campo.


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

jack&jill said:


> Hi Lyn, I should change what I wrote, only its not possible after 15 minutes, because we're doing our best to keep totally open minds about location, town, city, village, mountain top, one never knows where one might be happy. And your location does sound very inviting in a way we hadn't considered. Life long fascination with history, the stories of a landscape speak and bring it alive so living in an historic quarter sounds very exciting.
> 
> If you have the time, what are the pleasures of daily life that made the move worthwhile and have continue to do so?
> 
> Are the people friendly? Have you made Spanish friends? Am wary of being isolated & not having doors to open to me, even as one can be anywhere, isolated amongst a sea of others, whereas my partner wouldn't notice. I really want to join in & look to see if there are opportunities to connect with others.


Pleasures of daily life? Well, let me see. We walk down to the shops every morning, preferring to do that and just buy what we need for the day rather than a big weekly shop, as it gets us out and is good exercise (especially the walk back up!), always have to stop and have a chat with several people - Spanish, British and other nationalities too. I spend 3 afternoons at the gym where I swim and do other exercise. Sitting on our roof terrace with a good book is an enjoyable way to spend other afternoons! We like to hop on the bus and go into Málaga for the day, or other places like Nerja and Granada which are all easily reachable by bus from here. The town puts on quite a lot of concerts (many of them free) which we like to go to if it's something that appeals to us (classical or blues is fine, but flamenco something of an acquired taste as far as we're concerned). Three or four times a year we get away for short breaks to explore other areas of Spain, this is such a huge country and there is just so much to see. The high speed rail system is fantastic, we think.

We have a few Spanish friends but in general Spanish people are not so much into inviting anyone other than family into their homes or going out with them socially as perhaps we are, although they are very friendly, warm and generous on the whole. We also have a few good friendships we have developed over time with people who own holiday homes here, strangely not so much with other Brits who live here all year round, most are not really on our wavelength and I am not someone who thinks I must socialise with someone because they are British if I wouldn't choose to be friends with them in the UK. There is a British social club which meets weekly in Torre del Mar and organises trips to various places and other social events, The Phoenix Club. I am not a member but do go on trips to Gibraltar with them occasionally. There is also a Branch of U3A not far away, in El Morche on the coast.


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## Brewerydave (Nov 28, 2012)

Hi guys - admire your plans!
We are just 50 and moved over 6 months ago with early retirement. We live in torre del mar - near velez Malaga as Lynn r states above and can concur with all she says.

We spent the first 5 months in the campo as we wanted what everyone does - nice villa with views, pool etc but in the end it was all about lifestyle and that means location,location,location!!!

Campo is great for views and peace and quiet - but we are a pretty lively and sociable couple and it just didn't suit us - especially having to drive everywhere. 

Very happy where we are now and have the best of everything - but different from what we first thought we wanted. This is a Spanish resort, but is a busy working town open all year, and very few Brit bars! The locals are great and we have met several, and our language skills have improved more in the time we've been here than they ever did in the campo.

It's very much horses for courses, just seriously think about what you want, and do rent first!!!


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

We left the UK in 2008, spent three years in Prague then moved to Spain. We live on the fringe of a small quiet village within easy reach of Estepona (which I love)and Marbella (which I loathe).
When we came here first we stayed in my son's house, five minutes from where we live now. We looked around inland but after a month or so this area grew on us and we had begun to feel at home. We're not in the campo but we have open land all around us. We can be by the sea in under ten minutes, ditto foothills of the Sierra Bermeja. Estepona is a beautiful, quiet town, much favoured by Spanish tourists.
We are within easy reach of two airports, Malaga and Gibraltar, have a surgery in the village and the excellent Costa del Sol Hospital is a thirty minute drive away. Our village has few shops, about fifteen at the most but Estepona is a short drive away and there is a shopping centre thirty minutes away.
We joined an animal rescue charity (I became Vice President very quickly as the previous President and VP had resigned and no-one wanted the job!) and made friends of all nationalities. I'm active in a Spanish political party so have many Spanish friends. It's easy to make friends here and we have a great social life. 
I hated it when we first got here as we moved out of my son's house to an apartment in a gated community and we had never lived in a flat. But as soon as we found the house we have now lived in for over seven years I was happy.
We sold our properties when we left the UK, brought all our furniture with us and rent now. We have a great absentee landlord and no worries about repairs etc. In time we may move into Estepona, we'll see how we feel.
I never thought I'd live in Spain, never wanted to. We bought a place in Canada to retire to, dropped that idea, then thought of Amsterdam but settled on Prague as I knew the city well for decades and have good friends there. My partner wanted to move to Spain after three years in Prague and I went with the flow, so to speak. Now this is my home and Brexit or not I'm staying.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

jack&jill said:


> Thanks, we got lost before we even started


so did the armada and Columbus!


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## thrax (Nov 13, 2008)

I can also confirm that Velez-Malaga and Torre del Mar are excellent towns, vibrant and full of many interesting folk of all nationalities. Torre del Mar is also very popular with the Spanish who use it as one of their main Spanish holiday destinations in the summer months. In fact, all along the coast, east of Malaga, you will find many beautiful and fascinating towns and villages. We live in the campo with stunning views over Nerja and Frigiliana with mountains behind us. I would most definitely recommend an exploration trip to see what this area offers and whether or not it would be good for you. We are just a 40 minute drive from the wonderful city of Malaga which we visit as often as we can. We chose this area because my wife's parents have lived in the area for 12 years and when we moved, my parents, in their 80s, followed 6 months later. They have never looked back and absolutely love it here. (Not that you are in your 80s, of course!!)


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

Lynn R said:


> Pleasures of daily life?


I forgot to say earlier that the restaurant scene in Vélez has improved hugely over the last 5 years or so. There are now quite a few good "modern Spanish" restaurants in the centre of town such as El Convento, La Posada del Conde, El Caserio de las Monjas, La Sastreria and La Gamba Dorada for fish - and all within a 5 minute walk of home so no need for anybody to drive and forego that glass (or few) of good wine. Our choice is restricted because my husband is vegetarian, but anyone who eats meat or fish would have no problems.

Our Ruta de la Tapa is on at the moment (until 17 April) with about 20 establishments participating.


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## Maureen47 (Mar 27, 2014)

We moved permanently in Nov 2015 , the area to choose was helped by having family in the area and many visits and house sitting for them over the years. They have been here 12 yrs. The problem we had was where in that area and what type of house, when I think now of what we could have bought !! Our family tried to guide us but let us go through the journey. We looked at really remote house which were fabulous but in hindsight not really practical for us. We have ended up on the edge of a small village in the Valencia region , we can walk to village , we have mains power and water, wifi and a lovely house and a casita with a pool and more land than we will ever need. We are 15 mins drive from a large town and an hour from Valencia airport and just a little more from Alicante. We get the train to Valencia and it takes 30 odd minutes so feel we have the best of all worlds, our nearest beach is 40 mins away. This area is not for everyone but the Spanish way of life is predominant here with shops closed for siseta and more Fiestas than you can shake at stick at. Village life is lovely and there are all the amenities you would ever need without leaving the village. Everyone says hello but if you want a bigger town it is there and the city is not far. Take time to think about what is important to you , we are glad we did and ended up in the perfect place for us. Good Luck in your adventure , our adventure is ongoing and we are loving it ;-)


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

jack&jill said:


> Jojo, it's fascinating that your adventure has taken you somewhere so unexpected, over your life in the UK, what is it that keeps you in Spain, enthused and enjoying it enough to make the transition worthwhile for you & yours?


There's a sad end to my story - my daughter hated Spain and because my husband commuted to the UK to carry on his business, he didnt really ever feel he belonged. So we returned to the UK - I've never settled back here, but visit friends in Spain a fair bit. Once our children are gone ........................if they ever do lol ( They're 19 and 21), then we'll be back!!!

Jo xxx


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## jack&jill (Apr 5, 2016)

Ah, Jojo when we get out there we'll have to invite you... We're so sorry it didn't work out but at least as you say, there's time enough.


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## jack&jill (Apr 5, 2016)

Wow, mind blowingly lovely location, sounds perfect & lovely to know its gone well for you. You're so fortunate to have family nearby for comfort and guidance, which we wouldn't - don't know a soul -. I knew a lot of people of my grandparent's generation who lived all over Europe including Spain, but they're mainly dead, not due to some pagan Spanish foreigner burning ritual, that I know of, but old age and too much drink mainly, they all go bird (bloody spell check) which it doesn't sound like you have or will. I bet that's a relief, who wants to go bird? I mean dead, they're all dead. Not birdies. Sounds like you've got the balance perfect of beautiful surroundings and a vibrant life, what we aim for. Am sure I have a many queries for you and everyone but I'll get to the nitty gritty at a later point. 
I think my question to you would be, do you find it's easy to make friends in a Spanish village? Or are you too busy. One might imagine the worlds too far apart, internal world's if not physical. And I was about to ask about the pleasures of daily life but I think you've painted a very happy picture. Thank you Maureen47, it's lovely to hear about, we're very interested.


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## jack&jill (Apr 5, 2016)

Lynn_R. We're hungry, it's just pre dinner cooking time and reading your post is making us wish to drive straight over and shovel tapas, with a big, big, shovel, tapas into our waiting baby bird mouths. It sounds lovely, we will have to put Velez on our map of where to visit. Thank you.


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## jack&jill (Apr 5, 2016)

Lynn_R, your daily pleasures sound more than I get in a year, blissful. Lizzie Spender once told my mother she sounded as though she would be good at Flamenco, am sure I would enjoy horrifying you & anyone with an improptu and embarrassing display at inopportune moments. Thinking of your daily life and all those who've replied may just get me though spring in England, I curtsey and thank you and look forward to horrifying the Spanish instead of the English.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

IMHO What we really need is a thread (in stickies) where we can lay out our stories of how we came to be where we are and why, a thread to which we could refer J&J instead of boring the pants off those who have heard it all before.

I'm sure people don't want to hear ours again and again...


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## jack&jill (Apr 5, 2016)

*BreweryDave*



Brewerydave said:


> Hi guys - admire your plans!
> We are just 50 and moved over 6 months ago with early retirement. We live in torre del mar - near velez Malaga as Lynn r states above and can concur with all she says.
> 
> We spent the first 5 months in the campo as we wanted what everyone does - nice villa with views, pool etc but in the end it was all about lifestyle and that means location,location,location!!!
> ...


Hi, yes, I think you have helped us a lot, thank you, we fell for a cortijo in paradise and sadly being grown up, again sadly, realised we had to think much more carefully than 'pretty, we want it and a lollipop,' but we still do want it plus a 99 icecream but we know what we want at first may not be the same months down the line. Lively and sociable, no wonder you're happy, you sound like you'd make a party wherever you go. Torre deal mar sounds very good, we will have to visit, thank you so much, it's all so exciting I have to try and not get carried away, men in coats, stretchers.


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## jack&jill (Apr 5, 2016)

baldilocks said:


> IMHO What we really need is a thread (in stickies) where we can lay out our stories of how we came to be where we are and why, a thread to which we could refer J&J instead of boring the pants off those who have heard it all before.
> 
> I'm sure people don't want to hear ours again and again...


I very much want to hear all you've said many times before, please! It's all new to us, we would so love to know. And loved your joke earlier, yes, getting lost is genetic.


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## Maureen47 (Mar 27, 2014)

jack&jill said:


> Wow, mind blowingly lovely location, sounds perfect & lovely to know its gone well for you. You're so fortunate to have family nearby for comfort and guidance, which we wouldn't - don't know a soul -. I knew a lot of people of my grandparent's generation who lived all over Europe including Spain, but they're mainly dead, not due to some pagan Spanish foreigner burning ritual, that I know of, but old age and too much drink mainly, they all go bird (bloody spell check) which it doesn't sound like you have or will. I bet that's a relief, who wants to go bird? I mean dead, they're all dead. Not birdies. Sounds like you've got the balance perfect of beautiful surroundings and a vibrant life, what we aim for. Am sure I have a many queries for you and everyone but I'll get to the nitty gritty at a later point.
> I think my question to you would be, do you find it's easy to make friends in a Spanish village? Or are you too busy. One might imagine the worlds too far apart, internal world's if not physical. And I was about to ask about the pleasures of daily life but I think you've painted a very happy picture. Thank you Maureen47, it's lovely to hear about, we're very interested.


The village is very friendly , so its easy to make friends if you want to. I go to Spanish classes twice a week so have made British , Bulgarian and Moroccan friends through that and we have coffee after class and speak Spanish which is the common language. I have made friends in the village through using local businesses and going to the bars and cafes. I am starting helping at a dance class in the village too in a voluntary basis as I am a qualified gymnastics coach and the they needed some help , it was a bit daunting with my level of Spanish at first but the kids and teacher are lovely and my Spanish is helped by being there and its a lot of fun , its what you make it , you can be as involved as you want to be ;-)


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## jack&jill (Apr 5, 2016)

Hi Maureen47, thanks for answering, it's really appreciated. It's very heartening to read your experiences and see that there can be a place for one in Spanish society if one makes a big effort & have your courage. Am surprised by what a nice people the Spanish seem to be, how forgiving of our immigration and unresentful they sound. When contemplating Spain in the past, I assumed they would be rather anti-British and that it might one day become rather dangerous for us, specially with the climate of rising nationalism throughout Europe. We've seen this political, economic cycle before in the 30's & yet the Spanish still seem to welcome, it's very cheering when I had feared I'd need to keep some lifeline to here in the UK as protection against any future rising anti British tide.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

jack&jill said:


> Hi Maureen47, thanks for answering, it's really appreciated. It's very heartening to read your experiences and see that there can be a place for one in Spanish society if one makes a big effort & have your courage. Am surprised by what a nice people the Spanish seem to be, how forgiving of our immigration and unresentful they sound. When contemplating Spain in the past, I assumed they would be rather anti-British and that it might one day become rather dangerous for us, specially with the climate of rising nationalism throughout Europe. We've seen this political, economic cycle before in the 30's & yet the Spanish still seem to welcome, it's very cheering when I had feared I'd need to keep some lifeline to here in the UK as protection against any future rising anti British tide.


There is a bit of a caste system concerning immigrants. Where I am (town outside Madrid) British immigrants are at the top of the pile as most of us are English teachers teaching the language that is their bread and butter. English is an essential ingredient on anyone's CV nowadays. Even if we are not teachers we are perceived as being educated and a positive addition. This could be because there's not usually the drinking/ puking/ raucous/ football hoologan type in this area of Spain. At the bottom of the pile is the Magrebí. One up from that are probably the Romanians and in the middle, sometimes respected, sometimes not are the South Americans, Ukranians, Bulgarians, Poles....
I suspect there is some anti British feeling in the places where there are large expat groups, but in general if there is, the locals keep it to themselves.
Many will say that the natives are willing to take expats, immigrants or tourists' money so they can't complain about any problems that may arise from gearing whole areas to foreign occupation. I think any cons are probably 6 of one and half a dozen of the other.


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## jack&jill (Apr 5, 2016)

Thanks pesky wesky, very enlightening & interesting.

You've enjoyed many years in Spain & have obviously made a worthwhile life for yourself there. Would you mind telling us why you choose to spend your life there, what are the main reasons you prefer life in Spain to easy home comforts? 

And if you've time, why you chose your location over others?


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

jack&jill said:


> Hi Maureen47, thanks for answering, it's really appreciated. It's very heartening to read your experiences and see that there can be a place for one in Spanish society if one makes a big effort & have your courage. Am surprised by what a nice people the Spanish seem to be, how forgiving of our immigration and unresentful they sound. When contemplating Spain in the past, I assumed they would be rather anti-British and that it might one day become rather dangerous for us, specially with the climate of rising nationalism throughout Europe. We've seen this political, economic cycle before in the 30's & yet the Spanish still seem to welcome, it's very cheering when I had feared I'd need to keep some lifeline to here in the UK as protection against any future rising anti British tide.


It's worth bearing in mind that tourism and immigration of mainly Brits in the late 1970s onwards helped Spain's economy out of the depressed state it had sunk into during the Franco years and helped change social attitudes to more liberal, 'progressive' ones.
Many areas that are 'unspoilt' are also desperately poor with high unemployment and locals might well welcome an influx of tourists of any nationality. In the area where I live, tourism and residential tourism, by Spaniards as well as other nationalities, is the major source of employment, either directly or indirectly.
There really is no reason historically for the Spanish to be anti-British, not since the sixteenth century. We have fought no wars against the Spanish for centuries, indeed we fought for Spain against Napoleon in the eighteen/nineteenth centuries.
Drunken, boorish behaviour is not confined to Brits, neither is it confined to Spain. Broad Street Birmingham can be like Sodom and Gomorrah on a weekend night and as for young Americans on Spring Break....
I have found that Spanish people like most people judge by character and behaviour, not nationality.


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## jack&jill (Apr 5, 2016)

mrypg9 said:


> It's worth bearing in mind that tourism and immigration of mainly Brits in the late 1970s onwards helped Spain's economy out of the depressed state it had sunk into during the Franco years and helped change social attitudes to more liberal, 'progressive' ones.
> Many areas that are 'unspoilt' are also desperately poor with high unemployment and locals might well welcome an influx of tourists of any nationality. In the area where I live, tourism and residential tourism, by Spaniards as well as other nationalities, is the major source of employment, either directly or indirectly.
> There really is no reason historically for the Spanish to be anti-British, not since the sixteenth century. We have fought no wars against the Spanish for centuries, indeed we fought for Spain against Napoleon in the eighteen/nineteenth centuries.
> Drunken, boorish behaviour is not confined to Brits, neither is it confined to Spain. Broad Street Birmingham can be like Sodom and Gomorrah on a weekend night and as for young Americans on Spring Break....
> I have found that Spanish people like most people judge by character and behaviour, not nationality.


Thank you mrypg9, am glad to hear your experience, very useful. Unfortunately nationalism doesn't have to have a rational basis, though as you know, it may, often it seems just be anger and a wish to find a victim, someone to resent & blame. However truly wonderful a people we are and I think we are, am patriotic, we British can get irritated sometimes by unfriendly migrants, specially those that want something from us, but not us. But thankfully the British migrant attitude seems, I've noticed to encompass a kind of joy amongst most of you, a thankful, appreciative attitude which does you credit & seems fitting & must be a reason why you all find yourselves welcome. I will endevour never to let the side down.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

jack&jill said:


> Thank you mrypg9, am glad to hear your experience, very useful. Unfortunately nationalism doesn't have to have a rational basis, though as you know, it may, often it seems just be anger and a wish to find a victim, someone to resent & blame. However truly wonderful a people we are and I think we are, am patriotic, we British can get irritated sometimes by unfriendly migrants, specially those that want something from us, but not us. But thankfully the British migrant attitude seems, I've noticed to encompass a kind of joy amongst most of you, a thankful, appreciative attitude which does you credit & seems fitting & must be a reason why you all find yourselves welcome. I will endevour never to let the side down.


In spite of my earnest endeavours, I cannot say that I have never 'let the side down'.
But in reality, it's always ourselves we let down, we are not representatives of Queen and country and in my experience Spanish people are well aware of that.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

*You asked for it!*

We had looked at a number of countries before deciding on Spain.

We listed what we wanted and what we didn’t want. We wanted to live in a Spanish environment, i.e. not amongst a load of expats; we didn’t want coastal; we didn’t want to be living on an urbanisation; we wanted to buy a place that would be suitable for our needs (we, being SWMBO and I, plus her mother); we didn’t want somewhere that was too hot in summer nor too cold in winter; we didn’t want big towns or cities, we wanted somewhere where we could breathe and not be in crowds; SWMBO ruled out living in the campo (how long would it take an ambulance to find us in the middle of the night?); somewhere with mountains would be nice (SWMBO was born, brought up and spent most of her life about 10,000 ft up in the Andes.)

So we were left with the final choices: small town or village a bit inland; our own house (with or without a garden) or flat at a price we could afford to pay without taking on a mortgage; altitude not too high (cold in winter) nor too low (very hot in summer and possibly very cold in winter); reasonable access to shops, culture and history, etc.

Searching on a map and checking out climate records, we marked out an area slightly north and west of Granada (we had been to Granada in December [2005] and it was bl**dy freezing with the cold dropping off the snow covered mountains) as being possible. On our first house-hunting visit we looked at that patch and while we found several places, some overpriced, some ripe for reform, others for demolition (one had a six inch gap in the floor on the first floor such that the back wall was not attached to the rest of the house!), some partially reformed by Brits with illegal electrics, etc. Nothing suitable but we had a much better idea of what was on offer, what we should avoid (i.e. not waste time looking at) and what we might perhaps strive for to find what we wanted.

Our second house-hunting visit we went farther north along the N432 (Granada – Córdoba carretera.) We felt we were getting to more of what we wanted and on the Thursday (we were due to fly home on Saturday) we went to a house in a village. The house seemed to be saying to us when we walked in “Ah, you’ve got here at last; I’ve been waiting for you.” Almost everything was there. OK the place needed rewiring, replumbing and one or two minor alterations including removing a pantry (dispenser in Spanish) to join the dining room and lounge into one room, into which we had a log burner installed.

The price was 87k€ and we offered 85 which was accepted. The owners were in no rush to move since they were having a new place built next to their son. We then made part payments over the next 12 months until it was ours. The previous owners moved into the empty house next door and we moved in at the beginning of November 2008. Then we looked at the view see pics in this album:
http://www.expatforum.com/expats/members/baldilocks-albums-around-castillo-de-locubin.html

No the cat isn't ours but came up to meet us in the park while we were awaiting our meeting with the notary.


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## Galluslass (Mar 27, 2013)

This has been interesting reading (especially JOjo). Just back from another visit and still considering a move. Stayed beachside at Las Chapas area which we liked and where the school is that we ar interested in. Looking for input from folk as whether to live beachside or back a little or on of the villages or towns. Looking for an area between Marbella and Malaga airport ideally and close to the school if we can (EIC). Just wondering if the areas near the beach are a bit soulless and obviously very transient with holiday makers rather than residents. Any advice and input at all to nice areas of a family would be appreciated.


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## Maureen47 (Mar 27, 2014)

I was reading some of this of this thread out to my husband as we were enjoying an early evening glass of red on the terrace. We talked about it and thought about how lucky we were with what we have and where we are. We came to conclusion that it is important to research and choose the right area but most importantly , we have no debts , we have no money worries , we currently have no health issues , our kids are grown up and settled with good lives ahead of them so really we could be happy anywhere and all the lovely things that living in Spain brings are a real bonus ! ;-)


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## jack&jill (Apr 5, 2016)

Yes Baldilocks, we asked for it and are glad, thanks for taking the trouble, it's appreciated. We lit up reading your post because your requirements seem to be exactly what we imagine ours are, (except we haven't ruled out the campo) I say imagine because only research on the ground will tell us for sure & your system is more or less exactly what we're doing. Your chosen location is stunningly beautiful too, we can see why it became home - don't worry we won't follow you, but if you see a couple, plus luxuriantly large spaniel, wearing absurd sombreros and lisping in English, gesticulating exaggeratedly, you'll know we've moved in next door, in disguise, the better not to scare you off.
Do you speak Spanish, we've begun learning and for a minute or two after a session I found myself lisping in English, kick me now.


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## jack&jill (Apr 5, 2016)

Hi Maureen47, what a lovely message, it's wonderful to hear you are both so content. As a child I was asked what I required from life, 'to have what I need to be content,' I replied so it's a great pleasure to hear about you. Contentment seems a common thread on this board, such a rare gift and am delighted for you all. We wonder sometimes if it may take us years to find the right location but reading about your life and the lives of others gives us hope it won't take quite that long, if we're wise enough to remember what we're learning from you all. 

One thing you've made us realise is that we might see, as we have, a beautiful off grid cortijo, half way up a mountain, in the foot hills of the Sierra Nevada, with a spring water pool, accessible only by mule but the prospect of living in such a place for twelve months a year is quite challenging... I've told my partner he can lug me up there in a palanquin and the spaniel can help heave me up too, earn her dried fish skins.

We're grateful and delighted that so many lovely people are taking the time out of their lives to help and advice us, it's very touching, thank you Maureen47' thank you all.


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## jack&jill (Apr 5, 2016)

Hi mrypg9, I always feel when abroad I must do my bit and show that we're a good sort of nation, I would hate to inadvertently cause offence and then worry some other might feel the brunt at a later date. Am conscious of always flying the flag.


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## jack&jill (Apr 5, 2016)

Hello, it is Jack here. I keep imagining myself shivering in a mountain cortijo at Christmas counting jars of pickled walnuts next to a pellet stove. Then I go over to Gill and ask for my turn to cuddle the goat. Not a euphemism


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

jack&jill said:


> Yes Baldilocks, we asked for it and are glad, thanks for taking the trouble, it's appreciated. We lit up reading your post because your requirements seem to be exactly what we imagine ours are, (except we haven't ruled out the campo) I say imagine because only research on the ground will tell us for sure & your system is more or less exactly what we're doing. Your chosen location is stunningly beautiful too, we can see why it became home - don't worry we won't follow you, but if you see a couple, plus luxuriantly large spaniel, wearing absurd sombreros and lisping in English, gesticulating exaggeratedly, you'll know we've moved in next door, in disguise, the better not to scare you off.
> Do you speak Spanish, we've begun learning and for a minute or two after a session I found myself lisping in English, kick me now.


I don't lithp because I started learning Spanish in South America and they don't lisp there. Most of my research was done in UK so that we didn't waste time going to areas which we knew wouldn't suit. This meant that we were able to go directly to an area that help out the greatest possibilities. Bear in mind that there was a lack of forums at the time so it had to be looking up data ourselves.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

jack&jill said:


> Thanks pesky wesky, very enlightening & interesting.
> 
> You've enjoyed many years in Spain & have obviously made a worthwhile life for yourself there. Would you mind telling us why you choose to spend your life there, what are the main reasons you prefer life in Spain to easy home comforts?
> 
> And if you've time, why you chose your location over others?


Many people already know my story which is basically that I never meant to stay, but I met Mr. Pesky Wesky who is a definite non traveller, and so here I stayed.
I came at a time when many people did come over on a wing and a prayer as they say, and managed to get "something". I'm an English teacher, so there was work readily available, but you had to be careful to find an academy which was reasonably well run and that was actually interested in its students and teachers - a bit like now! (To be fair the teaching of English profession has come a long way since then. There are still many people trying to make a quick buck by offering people cut price classes with unqualified teachers who are paid cash in hand, but I would say that most places now know the value of a trained staff and the clients are much more discerning too. Also the tax inspectors are more vigilent!)
I did make sure I had a job to come to though, and as I already had some experience in the UK and in Colombia and already spoke intermediate Spanish I found a job in a good little academy in Catalonia. I didn't like the place much though so I moved to Madrid capital (as opposed to Comunidad or province) and stayed there for about 6 years. I married Mr. Pesky Wesky and we had a great time in Madrid I have to say. We lived in a tiny, but totally reformed flat 2 mins away from Plaza Mayor. Pros - sleezy life (drug addicts, prostitutes, etc) and just masses of people right on your doorstep. In Sol at Christmas time you find yourself in a queue just to get round the square because the people are just chock a block. But we could go to the cinema (original Version) once a week, go out for a drink to a variety of places whenever we wanted, go to different restaurants and many weekends we left the city behind and went to some place in the country or to visit friends living outside of Madrid, but then I became pregnant and we knew it was time to get out of Madrid.
So we moved 30kms away. In fact we are about 15 mins away from Mad Liz (who I've met and who seems a very nice person  ). It's not my dream place, but it does have advantages. There's not a big town centre (the municipio is very big, but the population is all spread out), and in a few minutes I am out in the county (not necessarily unspoilt) with views of the Sierra de Guadarrama. We live on an Urb with a pool (which is the place where all the kids meet up in the summer) and tennis court (which we have never used). We can walk to the shops in under 15 mins and there are buses to Madrid every 15 mins on average. 
When we retire we'll be looking for something different I think, still with mountains, but with a nicer "pueblo"
I've tried to upload some photos , but haven't been able to manage it, This photo which is not mine shows exactly the kind of walk that we go on though, with the path, the stone wall and the mountains in the distance









Or this one with the rocks


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

jack&jill said:


> Thanks pesky wesky, very enlightening & interesting.
> 
> You've enjoyed many years in Spain & have obviously made a worthwhile life for yourself there. Would you mind telling us why you choose to spend your life there, what are the main reasons you prefer life in Spain to easy home comforts?
> 
> And if you've time, why you chose your location over others?


I just read this again and am puzzled by 


> you prefer life in Spain to easy home comforts


What are easy home comforts?
Do you think that life in Spain is more difficult in some way than life in the UK?


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Pesky Wesky said:


> I just read this again and am puzzled by
> 
> What are easy home comforts?
> Do you think that life in Spain is more difficult in some way than life in the UK?


I guess it can be in some ways, at least at first.

You probably wouldn't speak great Spanish, know how things are done, where to buy things, when the shops are open etc. etc..

People who have been here years can still be caught out by a local fiesta day they had forgotten about - that kind of thing.


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## jack&jill (Apr 5, 2016)

Hi pesky wesky, thanks so much for your very helpful responses, have so much to say, to respond, but to me the UK is like a large comfy bed with all comforts right beside it, from the BBC, to immediately getting a joke to knowing how to get a good vet etc, the familiar is easy, so always more comfy. But we're at a crossroads & even as a toddler I watched the planes overhead in summer skies and longed to be on them and travel, try new places, a deep desire, so comfy isn't what we're looking for, adventure is and I know nothing about life in Spain which makes it all the more intriguing, having spent my life so far frustrated by constraints that weren't of my making, at last we are both free to go anywhere and comfy is lovely but not enough. Because of my desire for adventure I lived in Sarajevo for many months as a 17 year old with no language and no friends and soon was fluent and surrounded by lovely people. I love the UK dearly, I love my compatriots, I love & enjoy our culture but we want adventure, something new with a better climate and a lovelier setting where new stories can begin and one can see life with the fresh eyes of a child, because so much will be new to us. But we don't know all the differences, beyond the obvious, so we ask because there will certainly be things that would never cross our minds that you know well. It's the contrasts I was asking about, in daily life and of course it's the contrasts we're after.


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## jack&jill (Apr 5, 2016)

I think being caught out on fiesta day, would be wonderful, to drop everything and join in instead of scrubbing the kitchen floor as one had miserably planned, thank you, it's a lovely thought.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

jack&jill said:


> I think being caught out on fiesta day, would be wonderful, to drop everything and join in instead of scrubbing the kitchen floor as one had miserably planned, thank you, it's a lovely thought.


Unless it was the day you planned to go shopping. I got caught out a month after we arrived. I went into Alcalá la Real especially since I wanted to go to a ferretería (I was new and didn't know where all the other shops of this and other types were.) It was a Saturday so i knew that the shops should open at about 10 am. I waited and waited but still the shop remained closed and so were most of the other shops nearby. Then the shop next-door (sweets, tobacco, magazines) opened so I went and asked about the ferretería and found out that 5th December (the Friday) was a public holiday and so was the Monday and the shop would be closed for a long weekend. My purchases would have to be put off until the Tuesday!


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## jack&jill (Apr 5, 2016)

Hmm, well I hope you didn't go hungry, something for us to remember. Beside national holidays, presumably fiestas differ, so differing dates, all over rather than being national. No doubt we'll get caught out.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

jack&jill said:


> Hi mrypg9, I always feel when abroad I must do my bit and show that we're a good sort of nation, I would hate to inadvertently cause offence and then worry some other might feel the brunt at a later date. Am conscious of always flying the flag.


I think we might also be judged by perceptions of how our Governments act on our behalf. It's beyond our control.
We are not always thought of as a 'good sort of nation' by others. 
I used to teach English to a group of workers at the Czech Statistical Institute, all mature people, most with PhDs.
We once did a lesson on national stereotypes and I asked the students to give examples. One student said the British were aggressive. I was surprised at this but he explained 'You had a mighty Empire. This was not won by being peaceful'.
I was a bit taken aback but on reflection, thought he had a point.
I don't fly a flag, I'm just friendly, polite and think of the feelings of others. I'm sure you do that too.
But I've often had to listen to criticisms of the UK Government, when in Ibiza during the Falklands/Malvinas conflict and in Germany and France during the Blair/Bush/Aznar invasion of Iraq. In each case it was understood that I was not personally to blame.


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## Daniel Nielsen (Apr 8, 2016)

*Moving to Spain!*



jack&jill said:


> Beginning research on where to move from from Kent to Spain & we, a couple plus plump Spaniel, wanting to move abroad for more beautiful, less built up surroundings, adventure & a milder, dryer climate, though the clouds will be relieved to hear, some rain is acceptable. We love the idea of exploring new lives, an ancestor captained a ship of the Armada, remiss but we've not been back since so it may be time to give the bad news, 'Armada - failure - the invasion is contrariwise, sorry.' We know nothing and would love to learn from you, where in Spain have you chosen & how is life there for you?
> 
> Our minds are open to moving to all regions of Spain and we'd love to hear from you & any pointers you may have on where is great to go.


Hi there Jack & Jill! 

I have just read your post here and I think I may be able to help you a little bit.

I work in Real Estate on the Costa del Sol, Andalucia. I grew up here and have been working in Real Estate for over a decade.

Spain is truly a spectacular place to live, my family brought me here from the UK when I was just a baby in search of a better quality of life in the sun, with excellent food and lifestyle for both my parents and for me as a child growing up. I will recommend Spain to everyone!

You can be 'poor' in spain and still be happy. Andalucia is lightyear's away from the monotony of grey skies and traffic jams in the UK!

We have a plethora of /educational' content that can help you make the best informed decisions when consider to make the leap to the sun! Have a read on our website at sunnyviewproperty . com

If you wish to have a chat and find out more about the areas in Spain that could be suitable for what you are looking for, feel free to get in touch and have a chat or pop over for a cup of tea! 

Best of Luck!

Daniel


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## jack&jill (Apr 5, 2016)

Hi mrypg9, oh I know, I know, channeling Sybil Fawlty, I have defended the UK everywhere I've been, at length until I convinced any doubters that we are a good sort. I was tirelessly passionate about it in my early travels, feeling then that defending queen and country was also an ambassadorial winning them over, which I did time after flaming time. My grandmother, who lived all over the world told me as a child, 'don't tell people you're English when abroad, they won't like you, tell them you're Scots, true, or British, you'll get a much better reception. Ignoring this sage advice I did all I could to garner goodwill toward our little isle, no matter what calumny was thrown at us. The Falklands was still remembered in Sarajevo and they went on about our 'iniquity,' eventually they were cheering for the country of the mother of parliaments & looking daggers at Argentina, British fans for life and enjoying our tea too, I wouldn't let it go anymore than I would an insult to my mother or friend. However, I do realise it may be politic sometimes just to shut up, but my blood does boil when I hear calumny spoken of our people and anything disparaging is calumny to me. But I realise Spain's sympathies are probably with Argentina, a matter I would probably let go or burst a blood vessel and start waving a cudgel at them.


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## jack&jill (Apr 5, 2016)

*Gracias*



baldilocks said:


> I don't lithp because I started learning Spanish in South America and they don't lisp there. Most of my research was done in UK so that we didn't waste time going to areas which we knew wouldn't suit. This meant that we were able to go directly to an area that help out the greatest possibilities. Bear in mind that there was a lack of forums at the time so it had to be looking up data ourselves.


Am glad you don't lithpo...Yep, this is exactly what we plan to do too but it's good to inculcate it into our tiny minds, thanks.


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## jack&jill (Apr 5, 2016)

*Mucho Gracias*



Pesky Wesky said:


> Many people already know my story which is basically that I never meant to stay, but I met Mr. Pesky Wesky who is a definite non traveller, and so here I stayed.
> I came at a time when many people did come over on a wing and a prayer as they say, and managed to get "something". I'm an English teacher, so there was work readily available, but you had to be careful to find an academy which was reasonably well run and that was actually interested in its students and teachers - a bit like now! (To be fair the teaching of English profession has come a long way since then. There are still many people trying to a quick buck by offering people cut price classes with unqualified teachers who are paid cash in hand, but I would say that most places now know the value of a trained staff and the clients are much more discerning too. Also the tax inspectors are more vigilent!)
> I did make sure I had a job to come to though, and as I already had some experience in the UK and in Colombia and already spoke intermediate Spanish I found a job in a good little academy in Catalonia. I didn't like the place much though so I moved to Madrid capital (as opposed to Comunidad or province) and stayed there for about 6 years. I married Mr. Pesky Wesky and we had a great time in Madrid I have to say. We lived in a tiny, but totally reformed flat 2 mins away from Plaza Mayor. Pros - sleezy life (drug addicts, prostitutes, etc) and just masses of people right on your doorstep. In Sol at Christmas time you find yourself in a queue just to get round the square because the people are just chock a block. But we could go to the cinema (original Version) once a week, go out for a drink to a variety of places whenever we wanted, go to different restaurants and many weekends we left the city behind and went to some place in the country or to visit friends living outside of Madrid, but then I became pregnant and we knew it was time to get out of Madrid.
> So we moved 30kms away. In fact we are about 15 mins away from Mad Liz (who I've met and who seems a very nice person  ). It's not my dream place, but it does have advantages. There's not a big town centre (the municipio is very big, but the population is all spread out), and in a few minutes I am out in the county (not necessarily unspoilt) with views of the Sierra de Guadarrama. We live on an Urb with a pool (which is the place where all the kids meet up in the summer) and tennis court (which we have never used). We can walk to the shops in under 15 mins and there are buses to Madrid every 15 mins on average.
> ...


What a wonderful walk you have, the photos are very beguiling. Thank you so much for taking the time and trouble to tell us about your Spanish & adventurous life. It's very interesting and not only did we enjoy reading it but am sure we'll read all your posts and everyone's posts all over again, time after time till, we're sunning over selves in Spain for good. We were reading about Urbs today, land grabs of the past etc, can see why it would be the most secure option for us but I doubt we're sane enough to take that route.

I think we're probably looking for a location more along the lines of where you want to retire, though retirement isn't on the cards for us ever. My, what a colourful & romantic life you've had.


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## jack&jill (Apr 5, 2016)

*Mucho Gracias*



mrypg9 said:


> I think we might also be judged by perceptions of how our Governments act on our behalf. It's beyond our control.
> We are not always thought of as a 'good sort of nation' by others.
> I used to teach English to a group of workers at the Czech Statistical Institute, all mature people, most with PhDs.
> We once did a lesson on national stereotypes and I asked the students to give examples. One student said the British were aggressive. I was surprised at this but he explained 'You had a mighty Empire. This was not won by being peaceful'.
> ...


I should also point out getting into a contraton with Italian Fascists, in my teens again, and they were a mob family, the father el capo of the district. But an English woman abroad knows no fear when country is besmirched and I soon had them agreeing we are a good thing, ok it was many hours later but I won't let go and they did grow tired and I did offer to strangle the son if he made one more fascistic comment. I was later told by an Italian friend, that they were truly dangerous people and to avoid them, but that was hard as I was staying with them, not knowing who they were till I'd so sweetly offered furious reposts for their anti British stance. Eventually they truly did begin to see the light, though it reminds one of how one really has no idea of the trouble one could get into when speaking to strangers abroad.


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## jack&jill (Apr 5, 2016)

*Noted*



baldilocks said:


> Unless it was the day you planned to go shopping. I got caught out a month after we arrived. I went into Alcalá la Real especially since I wanted to go to a ferretería (I was new and didn't know where all the other shops of this and other types were.) It was a Saturday so i knew that the shops should open at about 10 am. I waited and waited but still the shop remained closed and so were most of the other shops nearby. Then the shop next-door (sweets, tobacco, magazines) opened so I went and asked about the ferretería and found out that 5th December (the Friday) was a public holiday and so was the Monday and the shop would be closed for a long weekend. My purchases would have to be put off until the Tuesday!


The 5th December and following working day now down in my calendar to beware of shut shops and no dins. We will get fed because of you, thank you.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

jack&jill said:


> The 5th December and following working day now down in my calendar to beware of shut shops and no dins. We will get fed because of you, thank you.


The holidays are actually the 5th and 8th December, it was just that one was Friday and the other Monday and the shop hadn't bothered to post on the door that it was taking a long weekend (un puente) off. It was similar last December when the 5th was on a Saturday and the 8th, the following Tuesday and many people made a long weekend of it. In fact, we did so ourselves and went to Madrid to meet up with a few of SWMBO's old university friends from back in the late 70s/early 80s. Eateries usually remain open since that is when good business is to be had.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

jack&jill said:


> I should also point out getting into a contraton with Italian Fascists, in my teens again, and they were a mob family, the father el capo of the district. But an English woman abroad knows no fear when country is besmirched and I soon had them agreeing we are a good thing, ok it was many hours later but I won't let go and they did grow tired and I did offer to strangle the son if he made one more fascistic comment. I was later told by an Italian friend, that they were truly dangerous people and to avoid them, but that was hard as I was staying with them, not knowing who they were till I'd so sweetly offered furious reposts for their anti British stance. Eventually they truly did begin to see the light, though it reminds one of how one really has no idea of the trouble one could get into when speaking to strangers abroad.


I don't go for this 'My country right or wrong' thing. We as a nation have like most other nations done things of which we should be proud and things of which we should be ashamed and for which we deserve to be 'besmirched'.
I disagreed strongly with the illegal invasion of Iraq in 2003 and was not prepared to defend such an ill- judged action.


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## thrax (Nov 13, 2008)

mrypg9 said:


> I'm just friendly, polite and think of the feelings of others.


No you don't... don't just sit there typing in a way that destroys my illusions of you. You are grumpy and miserable and mean and horrid. If you say things like that I will have to spend 40 days and 37 nights crying into my porridge. Please revert to the Mary that I have come to admire, hate, love, respect and above all never think of Nigel Farrage when I think of you.


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## jack&jill (Apr 5, 2016)

mrpyg9 agree with you on Iraq, but there is an anti British feeling in most countries which is over a century old & I try to change when am able.


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## jack&jill (Apr 5, 2016)

*Thanks*



baldilocks said:


> The holidays are actually the 5th and 8th December, it was just that one was Friday and the other Monday and the shop hadn't bothered to post on the door that it was taking a long weekend (un puente) off. It was similar last December when the 5th was on a Saturday and the 8th, the following Tuesday and many people made a long weekend of it. In fact, we did so ourselves and went to Madrid to meet up with a few of SWMBO's old university friends from back in the late 70s/early 80s. Eateries usually remain open since that is when good business is to be had.


Your advice has been duly noted in my calendar and amended, thank you so much.


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## Isobella (Oct 16, 2014)

Wherever I go in the world I don't worry about what people think. If they ask where I am from I say England. If they want to be rude and harangue me I would tell them where to get off. If they can't cope with it it is their problem. Most countries have skeletons, a case of let them without sin cast the first stone. I am not an apologist.


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## jack&jill (Apr 5, 2016)

Quite Isobella good to have your thoughts. But fat spaniels, queens of the sofa and walkie-aholics have a few bones to unravel such as...

Do you or anyone have the love of a good pooch who you've taken with you? Any thoughts on what it's like from the pooch perspective in Spain? Or even your own as pooch friend? I must ensure we make the right choice for the darling dog as much as ourselves. And maybe even location may play a part, maybe the doe eyed fawn we call our spaniel might be required to dance flamenco every third Monday of the month in some regions & with her black ringlets & foot long lashes would certainly look the part and have the required fire, any thoughts?


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## mozzo (Feb 23, 2016)

what is your cup of tea,

We, myself and young children are making our move to Tarifa in Spain in 3 months time. Tarifa is the choosen place. It has it's own micro climate and so may not suit everyone but it has what we are looking for and we have history there. First time was 10 years ago with my wife. I stepped of the bus and was nearly blown over by the wind. I fell in love INSTANTLY because of that moment because of the wind and everything else was confirmed afterwards. It fell in place and it just had magic, combination of the people and place. The weather can be extreme which I love but a good mix of the new and unsploit. If I talk about the feeling I could be here for 2 pages. Step forward 7 years and we have been camping in Tarifa 5 weeks each year with the kids, and then last year we decided to short circuit the usual "when I retire plan" and make the move now and give the kids their inheritance now in the form of bi-lingual and experience. We however like
1. The Vibe
3. next to the sea
3. outdoor/sporty,especially kite surfing
4. some night life when needed
5. international mix of people that have become residents. French, germans, Italians, dutch etc, so a very open place.
6. not far from Jerez - motoGP
7. Gibraltor next door, quick access to London and maybe part time work
8. Lots of nature, national park, not developed
9. Skiing opportunities in some mountains about 3 hours away I am told.
10. Marbella 2 hours away when needed.
11. morocco 40mins away by boat
12. scenery and old historic buildings as expected
13. Kids can grow up more outdoors and free.
14. no ofsted and huddling around schools
15. lifestyle
The kids will grow up and may have to leave to trade their time for money but they should hopefully have a beautiful and EXCITING place to come back to.


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## jack&jill (Apr 5, 2016)

mozzo said:


> what is your cup of tea,
> 
> We, myself and young children are making our move to Tarifa in Spain in 3 months time. Tarifa is the choosen place. It has it's own micro climate and so may not suit everyone but it has what we are looking for and we have history there. First time was 10 years ago with my wife. I stepped of the bus and was nearly blown over by the wind. I fell in love INSTANTLY because of that moment because of the wind and everything else was confirmed afterwards. It fell in place and it just had magic, combination of the people and place. The weather can be extreme which I love but a good mix of the new and unsploit. If I talk about the feeling I could be here for 2 pages. Step forward 7 years and we have been camping in Tarifa 5 weeks each year with the kids, and then last year we decided to short circuit the usual "when I retire plan" and make the move now and give the kids their inheritance now in the form of bi-lingual and experience. We however like
> 1. The Vibe
> ...


Tarifa is a flavour I didn't know existed, it sounds and looks marvellous, so vibrant as you say and exciting. Before we say anymore, firstly thank you very much for such a useful and helpful response and we really do want to hear you enthuse for pages about your love for this special place. Please do it's exactly what we want to hear, why you love this location over others. Love poems to locations very happily accepted, it is helpful, I think it really gives one a strong insight into what is unique and special in a way we can all access. Please enthuse and gives us your lyrical love for tarifa. Having just looked it up, as Jack says, it's a real eye opener and it looks like an unexpected delight, Spain all seems quite stunning but tarifa appears to be a place like no other. Tell us why you're in love with it... Do...go on, please.... We love lyrical by the way, so please let rip.


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## Justina (Jan 25, 2013)

And Mazzo, don't forget Cadiz is about forty minutes away by bus


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

jack&jill said:


> mrpyg9 agree with you on Iraq, but there is an anti British feeling in most countries which is over a century old & I try to change when am able.


Well, good luck on your valiant efforts.
But have you thought as to why there might be this 'anti-British feeling'?  Might it not be justified from the point of view of non-Brits? I may not want to change opinions I may agree with.
I'm here to enjoy retirement after decades of working in politics and trades unionism to influence the opinions of my fellow-Brits, mostly in vain.. I don't think I qualify as a kind of unofficial Ambassador. Whilst I'm also active in local politics here in Spain I don't see it as my job to change Spanish people's views of Britain's role in the world. 
Apart from the fact that would imo be a tad arrogant, I don't really think that my puny individual efforts would count for much against centuries of accumulated sentiment...


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

thrax said:


> No you don't... don't just sit there typing in a way that destroys my illusions of you. You are grumpy and miserable and mean and horrid. If you say things like that I will have to spend 40 days and 37 nights crying into my porridge. Please revert to the Mary that I have come to admire, hate, love, respect and above all never think of Nigel Farrage when I think of you.


 Love you too..

There are two things I'd like on my tombstone , assuming a) I have one and b) there's enough room on it.
One is Cromwell's famous speech to the Scottish Bishops 'Consider, brethren, ye may be wrong' and the second is 'She was nicer than most people thought'

I don't tolerate fools and I don't expect people to tolerate me when I'm foolish, which is often...I hold my opinions until they are proved wrong, which as a scientist you'll approve of.

From my window I can see an old lady on the other side of the road. I will help her cross over, whether she wants to or not..


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## jack&jill (Apr 5, 2016)

*Always glad to hear your views*



mrypg9 said:


> Well, good luck on your valiant efforts.
> But have you thought as to why there might be this 'anti-British feeling'?  Might it not be justified from the point of view of non-Brits? I may not want to change opinions I may agree with.
> I'm here to enjoy retirement after decades of working in politics and trades unionism to influence the opinions of my fellow-Brits, mostly in vain.. I don't think I qualify as a kind of unofficial Ambassador. Whilst I'm also active in local politics here in Spain I don't see it as my job to change Spanish people's views of Britain's role in the world.
> Apart from the fact that would imo be a tad arrogant, I don't really think that my puny individual efforts would count for much against centuries of accumulated sentiment...


No, you're quite right, I haven't a single thought in my vacuous head and have no idea about history or why these sentiments have occurred worldwide, toss blonde hair, pout, suck lollipop. I think you may have taken my humour and light hearted posts rather literally & seriously. However, I do thank you sincerely for all the info you've given.


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## 213979 (Apr 11, 2013)

I'm enjoying your posts because of the vocabulary you use. I've been here too long, my vocabulary is now on par with that of a ten year-old. 😢

Sent from my SM-G531F using Tapatalk


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## jack&jill (Apr 5, 2016)

elenetxu said:


> I'm enjoying your posts because of the vocabulary you use. I've been here too long, my vocabulary is now on par with that of a ten year-old. 😢
> 
> Sent from my SM-G531F using Tapatalk


Thanks, I know what it's like, didn't recognise English being spoken once, hadn't heard it or used it in many months, as one new vocabulary grew, my mother tongue shrivelled. Have you tried the BBC Worldservice?


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## Elyles (Aug 30, 2012)

jack&jill said:


> Thanks, I know what it's like, didn't recognise English being spoken once, hadn't heard it or used it in many months, as one new vocabulary grew, my mother tongue shrivelled. Have you tried the BBC Worldservice?


 It will get there. As a kid of 16 I lived in and spoke fair Japanese. Actually my first experience was at a Japanese Spanish speaking contest in 1966. I was taking Spanish in Secondary then. Later I took a year of Undergraduate Spanish and fumbled with it for years. Just before retirement I went back to school and took a couple of years of Undergraduate Spanish again. What helped me the most however was living here in the North where little English is spoken.


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## mozzo (Feb 23, 2016)

Justina, absolutely...Cadiz is down the road and beautiful. 

It sounds like Jill writing...anyway I like your expressions enticing me to express myself but I am not going to wax lyrical and produce love poems about my attraction to Tarifa  I would not want to bore the good people on this forum with a facebook style look at me talk about how good I think my stuff is. Suffice to say it's a location suggest as you wanted for you to consider and draw your own opinion if you visit but it really works for us. If you do make it down there then let me know and we could cross paths as we will be strangers to in a foreign land.


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## jack&jill (Apr 5, 2016)

Hi Mozzo, yes we think Tarifa looks stunning, love the moorish elements very much, very beautiful & the idea of cosmopolitan, rather than only our compatriots. We get the idea from what you say and have read that it's lively which we love too, we'll certainly go & peer. We'll let you know should life allow us to visit & make a rendezvous to meet you beneath the town clock tower, whether it has one or not. 
Good luck & a following wind to you in your new Tarifa life, if sounds headily exciting.


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## Justina (Jan 25, 2013)

Having read your comments on Tarifa, I am so annoyed that I missed all that. I went to Morocco a couple of years ago with my son in August and we arrived very early by bus to Tarifa and battled our way up a very windy hill and then down to the terrazas just in front of the port. Unfortunately, I didn't realise there was so much more to the place. I do remember looking at the houses on the slopes leading in to Tarifa and being amazed at just how close was Africa and what a view to wake up to every morning.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

BTW jackandjill, I don't know if you ever saw this thread from the Tasca sticky, but there are someinteresting posts here which toch on the same subject
http://www.expatforum.com/expats/la-tasca/374305-stories-life-spain.html


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## anles (Feb 11, 2009)

baldilocks said:


> The holidays are actually the 5th and 8th December, it was just that one was Friday and the other Monday and the shop hadn't bothered to post on the door that it was taking a long weekend (un puente) off. It was similar last December when the 5th was on a Saturday and the 8th, the following Tuesday and many people made a long weekend of it. In fact, we did so ourselves and went to Madrid to meet up with a few of SWMBO's old university friends from back in the late 70s/early 80s. Eateries usually remain open since that is when good business is to be had.


It's actually the 6th of December, Día de la Constitución!


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

anles said:


> It's actually the 6th of December, Día de la Constitución!


Thanks, I didn't think it looked right.


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

Hi

We moved here two years ago. We live in the autonomous region of Extremadura. Not populated with immigrants (formerly known as Ex-Pats). It is a region of outstanding beauty and culture. We have several Unesco World Heritage sites, wildlife, birds, lakes, mountains, great food, Portugal to go shopping in. 

Nah it is horrid here hate it


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## jack&jill (Apr 5, 2016)

*Thank you*



Pesky Wesky said:


> BTW jackandjill, I don't know if you ever saw this thread from the Tasca sticky, but there are someinteresting posts here which toch on the same subject
> http://www.expatforum.com/expats/la-tasca/374305-stories-life-spain.html


So thoughtful & kind, thank you for taking the time to tell us, we'll certainly read this with fascination.


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## jack&jill (Apr 5, 2016)

*Thanks*



anles said:


> It's actually the 6th of December, Día de la Constitución!


Thank you, again no starvation for us or la poochette on this date, noted.


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## jack&jill (Apr 5, 2016)

cambio said:


> Hi
> 
> We moved here two years ago. We live in the autonomous region of Extremadura. Not populated with immigrants (formerly known as Ex-Pats). It is a region of outstanding beauty and culture. We have several Unesco World Heritage sites, wildlife, birds, lakes, mountains, great food, Portugal to go shopping in.
> 
> Nah it is horrid here hate it


I can imagine why you hate it, it sounds ghastly in every way and we can't wait to have a look so that we too perhaps can suffer, bravely, as you do. It's sounds so perfectly awful that I wish we were there suffering now too, thank you for taking the time to enlighten us about your hell on earth, much appreciated, it sounds too exciting...


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## jack&jill (Apr 5, 2016)

*Thank you so much*



Daniel Nielsen said:


> Hi there Jack & Jill!
> 
> I have just read your post here and I think I may be able to help you a little bit.
> 
> ...


Hi, somehow amid all the early flurry of posts, I missed your post and do apologise profusely, what a lovely, helpful and thoughtful message. We'll certainly get back to you & - you have tea-? Tea is a big love & thought we'd have to go without, but you certainly know how to tempt with tea, not that you need to, as your message & friendliness is enough of a draw. One steaming bucket of tea with a sea of milk, would be lovely. 
Will check out your site today, am sure it's just the kind of info we've been looking for along with the personal accounts & views people have been delighting us with here. 
Right now, it's grey, dark and raining in the north of England, the heating is on high and it's hard to imagine the lightness of being that sunshine brings. 

Thanks for your message & time, we're sure to get back to you, in the middle of a house sale right now, then another to go before we can fly away with the birdies, but we need to do a lot of research, the next step of which is your site.

Much is Gracie's ( spell check version of the Spanish thank you so much)...


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