# Invest in egypt?



## Moe599

Hello everyone. This is my first post. I'm fairly new to Egypt and new to this forum. I had an offer to invest in a transportation business. A taxi cab business. Does any know what the restrictions are for foreigners? I'm from the U.S. This may sound like a dumb question but Can I trust someone here? Has anyone had any experience trying to start a new business here? I know it's a topic that can require lots of questions and answers but any info would be great! Thanks!


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## MaidenScotland

Hello and welcome to the forum

I knew a German that was involved in public transport in Cairo and he made a decent living but after 30 years he suddenly two years ago upped sticks and left.. for what reason I do not know.
The country is still in turmoil and to invest is very risky even in peaceful times.. taxis are cash businesses and you will be ripped off this I can guarantee... have a look at privately owned shops, etc and you will see the owner sits behind the till taking the money as he doesn´t trust anyone but himself when dealing with cash.


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## Moe599

Hello Maiden

Thanks for the reply. I am very familiar with "Cash Businesses". I think I have a good system to mimimize that exposure. What are my concerns is the startup. Is there a system in place for foreigners to invest without someone or some entity stealing it back.? For example, I lived in North Cyprus for 3 months before I came to Egypt. That place is filled with deceptions for any property purchases. Just wondering. Thanks again.


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## canuck2010

I'm in the early stages of starting up a business. There aren't many restrictions on foreigners. It's all rather straight forward, once you translate the forms from Arabic. My advice, trust no one but yourself, and find a good lawyer.


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## hurghadapat

Moe599 said:


> Hello Maiden
> 
> Thanks for the reply. I am very familiar with "Cash Businesses". I think I have a good system to mimimize that exposure. What are my concerns is the startup. Is there a system in place for foreigners to invest without someone or some entity stealing it back.? For example, I lived in North Cyprus for 3 months before I came to Egypt. That place is filled with deceptions for any property purchases. Just wondering. Thanks again.


Bet your bottom dollar that any Egyptian will be one step ahead of your "system to minimize that exposure" they don't even trust each other as Maiden has pointed out and believe me unless you speak the language fluently you don't stand a chance with them as they are experts when it comes to ripping you off.


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## Moe599

Thanks canuk and pat. 

I think a little bit of technology goes a long way. I do understand that it is very common here so that will be a challenge, I'm sure. What about the paperwork process in terms of licenses and permits is it straight process or is it corrupt? Thanks again!


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## MaidenScotland

Moe599 said:


> Thanks canuk and pat.
> 
> I think a little bit of technology goes a long way. I do understand that it is very common here so that will be a challenge, I'm sure. What about the paperwork process in terms of licenses and permits is it straight process or is it corrupt? Thanks again!





How long have you been in Egypt? 
Lol sorry but you will never beat them no matter what technology you have in place.
The only way you will not be ripped off is doing the driving yourself and collecting the money


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## Moe599

I've been in Egypt since May 18. I spent one month in sharm then about two weeks in El Gouna. 

No I think I have a good system where I don't have to be there at all. I know it sounds crazy, but the customer just has to be given a receipt.


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## MaidenScotland

Moe599 said:


> I've been in Egypt since May 18. I spent one month in sharm then about two weeks in El Gouna.
> 
> No I think I have a good system where I don't have to be there at all. I know it sounds crazy, but the customer just has to be given a receipt.




Lamb to the slaughter comes to mind... 

the customer wont be given a receipt, all the driver has to say is the fare is cheaper without a receipt.

My advice to you is Keep your money in the bank, you have not been in Egypt nearly long enough to know what is what.


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## MaidenScotland

The driver will tell you

I forgot to switch it on
I ran out of paper
I ran out of ink
I cant read or write
I wasnt working that day


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## marenostrum

There are some foreigners that have made good money here.

There is an average european dj here who was relatively unknown but who now controls Egypt's commercial radio station industry and is raking it in. Serious money indeed.

But it was new market with no competition so he knew he had a hell of a chance of making it.


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## MaidenScotland

marenostrum said:


> There are some foreigners that have made good money here.
> 
> There is an average european dj here who was relatively unknown but who now controls Egypt's commercial radio station industry and is raking it in. Serious money indeed.
> 
> But it was new market with no competition so he knew he had a hell of a chance of making it.




Of course there are.. I said in my first post I knew a german who was in transport and he made a good living, but come on honestly do you think the fact receipts are issued will make it a good viable business? After all you can buy receipt books in every shop that sells paper


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## hurghadapat

Moe599 said:


> I've been in Egypt since May 18. I spent one month in sharm then about two weeks in El Gouna.
> 
> No I think I have a good system where I don't have to be there at all. I know it sounds crazy, but the customer just has to be given a receipt.


 When they brought the new taxis into Hurghada the government made them have meters installed....do you think they use them I assume that it is an Egyptian who has offered you the chance to invest......beware,beware...i lived there for quite a few years and know the Egyptians and their ways


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## Moe599

Well all you guys have very interesting comments and some comical. 

The receipt idea would apply to a bus where the customer would be asking for a receipt or the ride is free and the driver would have to pay for that cost. Also the bus would be set up with real time cameras. Just some ideas if I decide to go through it. Thanks for all the great comments and thoughts.


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## MaidenScotland

Moe599 said:


> Well all you guys have very interesting comments and some comical.
> 
> The receipt idea would apply to a bus where the customer would be asking for a receipt or the ride is free and the driver would have to pay for that cost. Also the bus would be set up with real time cameras. Just some ideas if I decide to go through it. Thanks for all the great comments and thoughts.




I am sure that you have thought long and hard about it but honestly you would have to be up early to catch Egyptians. Real time cameras are you sure they would be allowed or legal as there are very few if any CTV cameras in Egypt.


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## Moe599

No I'm not sure if they are allowed.
The receipt idea does work from my experience. I have a propane filling station in the U.S. and I used it there. Before I did I had a lot of loss inventory. After I implemented that policy all the customers would wait for their receipt or the propane fill would be free. I don't know maybe I'm delusional here in Egypt.


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## MaidenScotland

Moe599 said:


> No I'm not sure if they are allowed.
> The receipt idea does work from my experience. I have a propane filling station in the U.S. and I used it there. Before I did I had a lot of loss inventory. After I implemented that policy all the customers would wait for their receipt or the propane fill would be free. I don't know maybe I'm delusional here in Egypt.




You cannot apply what you have learned or do in America to Egypt.
How would you tell people if no receipt then the fill up or in Egypt that the ride would be free... many many people can drive but they cant read.Buses are full to the gunnels, people dont wait in line they jump on and off when the bus is moving so who would issue the receipt , strangers often share taxis so how would the system work then.
McDonalds has a great till system but still managed to get ripped off big time, they simply put in the order through the till took the money served the food then cancelled the order.


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## Moe599

Maybe so. My venture is bus transportation to and from Alexandria. So the jumping on and off, I think would not apply. It would be set times each day for them to leave and return. 

You have very good points and it is concerning. 

Also the Mcdonalds scheme is easy to detect. Any good management would see the cancellations and refunds on the till report when the do the close daily.


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## Helen Ellis

Moe599 said:


> I've been in Egypt since May 18. I spent one month in sharm then about two weeks in El Gouna.
> 
> No I think I have a good system where I don't have to be there at all. I know it sounds crazy, but the customer just has to be given a receipt.


As a taxi user, I don't want a receipt, I arrive at my destination, hand the driver the money I have decided to give him(the meter is never on) and leave, quick and easy. Taxis are so cheap anyway I can't imagine there being much of a profit in it.
Now another nice bus service from Hurghada would be good, real super delux, we need that.


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## canuck2010

In another country in Africa I used a Taxi company that kept track of their drivers/fares by having their dispatch radio all the drivers every 15 minutes. A lot of micromanagement, but it worked for them. Receipts were determined by the central office, not the driver.

Implementing a GPS tracking system for the vehicles and then linking that to a central dispatch center could work. I think one would need a fool proof way of tracking the cars/drivers at all times.


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## Moe599

Helen if I may say. If only us expats needed the super deluxe bus I would be in trouble. Do you think there is a need out there for something like that. 

Also Canuck. I think if you can't trust anyone anywhere with anything then you would always have to micromanage an an owner. That's something I am used to doing. Hard to find good honest people these days!


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## Helen Ellis

Moe599 said:


> Helen if I may say. If only us expats needed the super deluxe bus I would be in trouble. Do you think there is a need out there for something like that.
> 
> Also Canuck. I think if you can't trust anyone anywhere with anything then you would always have to micromanage an an owner. That's something I am used to doing. Hard to find good honest people these days!


The Egyptians I know who use the bus always try to travel by the best one available, currently priced at 125le it travels to and from Cairo twice a day. With one 10 minute stop for a cigarette! There are always more Egyptians than foreigners on board.


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## Moe599

Helen

To hurgahda? Is that one way fare?


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## Helen Ellis

Moe599 said:


> Helen
> 
> To hurgahda? Is that one way fare?


yes Cairo Hurghada or Hurghada Cairo


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## GM1

there are already buses and trains. I am living in Hurghada and here are at least 4-5 companies (El Gouna, High Jet, Super Jet, Upper Egypt, MCV) who travel at scheduled times to Cairo. (and other cities) You have to buy a ticket also, not in the bus but at the ticket office. So I presume this system is also used for buses to Alex.
Here: Egypt Bus timetables , I think the prices are outdated. 
The price varies from maybe 50 to 150LE (El Gouna). As you can see in the link I provided for example El Gouna travels approx 10 times a day to Cairo, some buses are cheap, others are expensive, depending on the quality of the bus. 
I regularly by a ticket from MCV for a family member, Hurghada-Zagazig (no other cities, maybe going on to Alex) for LE 60.


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## Moe599

Hey GM1 thanks for that info. It was really helpful. Do you think there is a need for another bus company or is the market saturated? Are those buses usually full or do they leave half empty? Thanks again!


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## GM1

Sorry, I haven't much experience with buses, as I drive my own car. But when my sons travel with El Gouna bus, I think most of the times the buses are almost full.

In Egypt when someone sees that another one has a good business, he will open one also! Because he wants this success too, not counting that you will divide/spread the profit this way. For example, if in a street one hairdresser is doing (very) well, you can wait for it that another one opens soon!


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## Moe599

That about happens anywhere. I've seen four petrol stations on one corner many times in the states. I was just wondering if this guy is trying to exaggerate the need for more buses. I guess I'll have to do to the area where the buses leave and kind if scout it out. I would imagine there are many of them since Cairo only has 8 million people.


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## Moe599

By the way Gm1.
I was just there in el Gouna about 2 weeks ago. I stayed in the new marina, mb32. I rented the apartment from a fellow named Ross. Which he got the lead from Gernot. What a big difference from there to here. I didn't stay long but it seems that it was more luxury living there, very expensive compared to anywhere else on Egypt. I thought about looking for something there to start but just not enough time. Very nice area though.


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## canuck2010

Something that often lacks in Egypt is good customer service and high standards, if you could provide a superior bus ride it would have a good shot of being a success I would think (ie. Buses in N. America now have wi-fi on board).


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## Moe599

Well I believe customer service is very important when it comes to the" service industry" especially. BTW some buses have wifi but only in the privately owned buses. All corporate buses had for a while now.


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## Helen Ellis

*power supply.*



canuck2010 said:


> Something that often lacks in Egypt is good customer service and high standards, if you could provide a superior bus ride it would have a good shot of being a success I would think (ie. Buses in N. America now have wi-fi on board).


A power supply would be good too.


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## Moe599

With all that said, does anyone have a bus for sale?


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## Horus

After a while of living here your gut instant will tell you who to trust and who not to trust.

MOST people here will try to rip you off, but not all Egyptians are scammers, many are trying to make ends meet and make a living

I hope hell does not break loose but my Egyptian friends are limited to copts and my one best Egyptian friend is a copt and he has certainly opened my eyes to many things..and we are opening our business once things stabilise 

There are good muslim people but I find it hard to trust them and in many ways they have backward ideas


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## DeadGuy

Horus said:


> After a while of living here your gut instant will tell you who to trust and who not to trust.
> 
> MOST people here will try to rip you off, but not all Egyptians are scammers, many are trying to make ends meet and make a living
> 
> I hope hell does not break loose but my Egyptian friends are limited to copts and my one best Egyptian friend is a copt and he has certainly opened my eyes to many things..and we are opening our business once things stabilise
> 
> There are good muslim people but I find it hard to trust them and in many ways they have backward ideas


I am a Copt myself but your post is kinda........Well let's just say it doesn't make much sense.........

When it comes to money and business? NEVER trust ANY Egyptian of any belief, gender or race.......! Cause you'd never imagine how low some people can be in here when it comes to money and business.......And "religion" wouldn't stop them!


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## marenostrum

Horus said:


> After a while of living here your gut instant will tell you who to trust and who not to trust.
> 
> MOST people here will try to rip you off, but not all Egyptians are scammers, many are trying to make ends meet and make a living
> 
> I hope hell does not break loose but my Egyptian friends are limited to copts and my one best Egyptian friend is a copt and he has certainly opened my eyes to many things..and we are opening our business once things stabilise
> 
> There are good muslim people but I find it hard to trust them and in many ways they have backward ideas


Well if you are thinking of opening a business here I suggest you write to Simon Ramsden. This guy has made millions out of radiostations here. He is the egyptian version of Chris Evans but without the 1990s New Liebour + Bliar bandwagon.....


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## marenostrum

Forget transport, if you want to make money here invest in scrap metal and import it to Europe.

A manhole cover in Manchester UK goes for 400 pounds +.......


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## MaidenScotland

All my money is under the mattress and not an Egyptian one lol


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## mamasue

DeadGuy said:


> I am a Copt myself but your post is kinda........Well let's just say it doesn't make much sense.........
> 
> When it comes to money and business? NEVER trust ANY Egyptian of any belief, gender or race.......! Cause you'd never imagine how low some people can be in here when it comes to money and business.......And "religion" wouldn't stop them!




I totally agree, Dead Guy...... Horus has been in Egypt a relatively short time to know who to trust and who not to trust, he has only his own concepts.
I knew many copts and muslims.... good and bad.... and the ones you think are good are usually the worst!
I'd just say to anybody planning on investing in an Egyptian business......be sooooooo careful, and don't trust anybody....Egyptian or expat!!!!!


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## aykalam

mamasue said:


> I'd just say to anybody planning on investing in an Egyptian business......be sooooooo careful, and don't trust anybody....Egyptian or expat!!!!!


I agree and would add do not trust even your "friends" here. Some people I know where ripped off by a so called friend and to cut a very long story sort let me just say the guy is now being taken to court. I have to add the victims are also Egyptian so, guys, don't feel discriminated against


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## Moe599

I just met with the guy today to get more info on the new busses. Boy I'll tell you his numbers are all over the board. It went from a 200 percent net profit to about 700 percent net profit. In the first month! Ive had many business in the states. None could give me that much and that fast of a return profit. There seems to be many waya to make a fortune here. If you could just get a straight and honest answer. 
.


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## hurghadapat

Moe599 said:


> I just met with the guy today to get more info on the new busses. Boy I'll tell you his numbers are all over the board. It went from a 200 percent net profit to about 700 percent net profit. In the first month! Ive had many business in the states. None could give me that much and that fast of a return profit. There seems to be many waya to make a fortune here. If you could just get a straight and honest answer.
> .


From an Egyptian....NEVER  

Take notice of what DeadGuy said....he is Egyptian and should know better than anyone.

To set up a business without an Egyptian is also nigh on impossible i would think...unless of course you speak fluent Araby.....most of them don't have a clue how to run a business and make a profit....to them profit means i have made enough to eat and smoke today and Allah will look after tomorrow.


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## aykalam

hurghadapat said:


> .most of them don't have a clue how to run a business and make a profit....to them profit means i have made enough to eat and smoke today and Allah will look after tomorrow.


Unless of course your name is Al Fayed, Ezz, Sawiris, Salem, Ghali or...ahem, Mubarak


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## DeadGuy

mamasue said:


> I totally agree, Dead Guy...... Horus has been in Egypt a relatively short time to know who to trust and who not to trust, he has only his own concepts.
> I knew many copts and muslims.... good and bad.... and the ones you think are good are usually the worst!
> I'd just say to anybody planning on investing in an Egyptian business......be sooooooo careful, and don't trust anybody....Egyptian or expat!!!!!


Let's just make it clear that I'm NOT a religious person, but something that most people take a really long time to understand about "Religion" in Egypt is that it's nothing more than a rude, really offensive way to "label" people, most people in here got no idea whatsoever about their own religion...........It's just words printed on papers for them........Sad, but true........ 

And personally when dealing with anyone, business or not, there are more important standards for me to consider, professionalism should be the most important thing to look at when it comes to business........NOT religion.......Where someone prays or who he/she prays to is not my problem as long as they're thinking the same......


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## DeadGuy

Moe599 said:


> I just met with the guy today to get more info on the new busses. Boy I'll tell you his numbers are all over the board. It went from a 200 percent net profit to about 700 percent net profit. *In the first month*! Ive had many business in the states. None could give me that much and that fast of a return profit. There seems to be many waya to make a fortune here. If you could just get a straight and honest answer.
> .





Moe599 said:


> *In the first month!*


That explains..........


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## DeadGuy

hurghadapat said:


> Take notice of what DeadGuy said....he is Egyptian and should know better than anyone.


That made me laugh :lol:

Trust me if I "knew" better I wouldn't be so bloody "Happy" in Egypt :lol:

But I do try to learn from my mistakes though


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## DeadGuy

aykalam said:


> I have to add the victims are also Egyptian so, guys, don't feel discriminated against


There's an Arabic "saying" in here that no one would be offended except for the GUILTY ones.........So..........Well, no one should be offended except for the guilty ones


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## DeadGuy

aykalam said:


> Unless of course your name is Al Fayed, Ezz, Sawiris, Salem, Ghali or...ahem, Mubarak


Hisham Tala'at Mustafa and Sawiris aren't really THAT kind of businessmen.........And seeing what's happening to them both should make it obvious........

It really breaks my heart what's happening to MobiNil just cause some lil sad fu*k got a real tiny stupid mind and doesn't understand someone else's sense of humor


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## aykalam

DeadGuy said:


> Hisham Tala'at Mustafa and Sawiris aren't really THAT kind of businessmen.........And seeing what's happening to them both should make it obvious........
> 
> It really breaks my heart what's happening to MobiNil just cause some lil sad fu*k got a real tiny stupid mind and doesn't understand someone else's sense of humor


yes! how could I forget Ostaz Hisham?!  

Did you see the Ihwan's cartoon direct attack on Tahrir protestors? I bet they are not made to apologise for it  I think they do understand Sawiris' sense of humor but MB are extremely good manipulators, they know their target audience really well


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## DeadGuy

aykalam said:


> yes! how could I forget Ostaz Hisham?!
> 
> Did you see the Ihwan's cartoon direct attack on Tahrir protestors? I bet they are not made to apologise for it  I think they do understand Sawiris' sense of humor but MB are extremely good manipulators, they know their target audience really well


Didn't see the cartoon no but did hear enough talking beards in the last few days, enough to make me feel wanna shoot them right in the a$$ so they'd live but in pain!

They sure do know how to manipulate people's minds........They invented the game and they sure are the masters on it.........

Which reminds me........The thread's title is about investing in Egypt........Perhaps people need to think more about that now considering what's happening........


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## aykalam

DeadGuy said:


> Didn't see the cartoon no but did hear enough talking beards in the last few days, enough to make me feel wanna shoot them right in the a$$ so they'd live but in pain!
> 
> They sure do know how to manipulate people's minds........They invented the game and they sure are the masters on it.........
> 
> Which reminds me........The thread's title is about investing in Egypt........Perhaps people need to think more about that now considering what's happening........


Here's a link to that cartoon

????? ??? ???? - ???????.. ???????!!


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## DeadGuy

aykalam said:


> Here's a link to that cartoon
> 
> ????? ??? ???? - ???????.. ???????!!


What I hate the most about Islamists who shoved their fat a$$es and fake beards into politics is that NONE of them had the bloody [email protected] to even have an opinion, not just being loud about it, before those _"Morally, sexually decadent liberal junkies who are loyal to the USA and the UK"_ GAVE THEM THE BLOODY CHANCE TO BE ABLE TO WALK AROUND THE STREETS STATING THEIR DISGUSTING OPINIONS LIKE THEY'RE DOING NOW!!!!!!!!!

But duhhhhhh! It's just life! You feed a dog and it comes biting your Goddamn hand couple days later!

Rant's over! Sorry!


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## hurghadapat

DeadGuy said:


> Didn't see the cartoon no but did hear enough talking beards in the last few days, enough to make me feel wanna shoot them right in the a$$ so they'd live but in pain!
> 
> They sure do know how to manipulate people's minds........They invented the game and they sure are the masters on it.........
> 
> Which reminds me........The thread's title is about investing in Egypt........Perhaps people need to think more about that now considering what's happening........


Just before we go :focus: DeadGuy it should be arse....not a$$..or ass...which is american speak.


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## aykalam

hurghadapat said:


> Just before we go :focus: DeadGuy it should be arse....not a$$..or ass...which is american speak.


lol but how do you know DG doesn't speak American English?  Most Egyptians do anyway :clap2:


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## hurghadapat

aykalam said:


> lol but how do you know DG doesn't speak American English?  Most Egyptians do anyway :clap2:


Agree....just trying to improve his English....and no tuition fees charged.


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## MaidenScotland

Lets be honest the guy should have known better... there is no such thing as a sense of humour in Islam.. I have a story to tell that happend to me this weekend but I am humming and hawing about telling it..


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## hurghadapat

MaidenScotland said:


> Lets be honest the guy should have known better... there is no such thing as a sense of humour in Islam.. I have a story to tell that happend to me this weekend but I am humming and hawing about telling it..


Ohh come on Maiden do tell all and don't leave us all chewing our finger nails in anticipation ....ps thought you had just gone for adventure weekend with grandchildren !!


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## MaidenScotland

hurghadapat said:


> Ohh come on Maiden do tell all and don't leave us all chewing our finger nails in anticipation ....ps thought you had just gone for adventure weekend with grandchildren !!




I did and what a brilliant weekend I had..

Ok.. I went to Mundamar to see a dolphin show (first time ever as I don´t really approve) anyway I sat down next to a Muslim family and greeted them in Arabic and not Hola about half way through the show the father commented to his daughter that the whore in front ( a girl dressed for a Spanish holiday and sitting with her arm around her boyfriend) was what he was making sure his daughter did not turn into of course the daughter was clad in black from head to foot strangely enough the mother wasn´t. I didn´t say anything until we left when I bade them goodbye in Arabic and added the comment.. that it is just as well the **** in front didn´t understand what he was saying as she might have thought he was a terrorist.


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## hurghadapat

MaidenScotland said:


> I did and what a brilliant weekend I had..
> 
> Ok.. I went to Mundamar to see a dolphin show (first time ever as I don´t really approve) anyway I sat down next to a Muslim family and greeted them in Arabic and not Hola about half way through the show the father commented to his daughter that the whore in front ( a girl dressed for a Spanish holiday and sitting with her arm around her boyfriend) was what he was making sure his daughter did not turn into of course the daughter was clad in black from head to foot strangely enough the mother wasn´t. I didn´t say anything until we left when I bade them goodbye in Arabic and added the comment.. that it is just as well the **** in front didn´t understand what he was saying as she might have thought he was a terrorist.[/
> 
> Have you read any of the Jean Sasson books about the Saudi Arabian royal family...talk about double standards and think maybe that might apply to the family you met especially as the wife was not covered....and being able to speak Araby does have it's uses.


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## Moe599

Very cautious minds here on the forum. All for good reason. Well I'm going to try to take it step by step. Does anyone know of a "honest" lawyer or business consultant that could help me start up a business. I need help in forming a corporation and all paperwork. 

BTW. I switched gears from the bus transportation idea to a new advertising business. I went to the bus station with my future partner and spoke with some of the bus drivers to get an idea of how many trips they make a day to Alexandria. They all advised us not to do it. My guy said up to 4 roundtrips a day and on the other side of the spectrum they said maybe as little as 1 trip per 2-3 days. I know they both have their own agendas but that was too much for me.


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## marenostrum

MaidenScotland said:


> I did and what a brilliant weekend I had..
> 
> Ok.. I went to Mundamar to see a dolphin show (first time ever as I don´t really approve) anyway I sat down next to a Muslim family and greeted them in Arabic and not Hola about half way through the show the father commented to his daughter that the whore in front ( a girl dressed for a Spanish holiday and sitting with her arm around her boyfriend) was what he was making sure his daughter did not turn into of course the daughter was clad in black from head to foot strangely enough the mother wasn´t. I didn´t say anything until we left when I bade them goodbye in Arabic and added the comment.. that it is just as well the **** in front didn´t understand what he was saying as she might have thought he was a terrorist.


I wish people like that p....d off from our continent for good.


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## marenostrum

Moe599 said:


> Very cautious minds here on the forum. All for good reason. Well I'm going to try to take it step by step. Does anyone know of a "honest" lawyer or business consultant that could help me start up a business. I need help in forming a corporation and all paperwork.
> 
> BTW. I switched gears from the bus transportation idea to a new advertising business. I went to the bus station with my future partner and spoke with some of the bus drivers to get an idea of how many trips they make a day to Alexandria. They all advised us not to do it. My guy said up to 4 roundtrips a day and on the other side of the spectrum they said maybe as little as 1 trip per 2-3 days. I know they both have their own agendas but that was too much for me.


Hang on, with all due respect you are relying on the advice of some bus drivers from the bus station in Cairo for your business idea?

Chanes are you met sone lazy b....s who do not like to drive their bus but prefer sitting in the shade drinking tea. 

How old are you?


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## hurghadapat

marenostrum said:


> I wish people like that p....d off from our continent for good.


Well that would wipe out most of the male Arabic population then.....


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## marenostrum

hurghadapat said:


> Well that would wipe out most of the male Arabic population then.....


Are you saying that most of the male Arabic population has moved into Europe?

Looking at what I saw during my last vacation to Europe you may be right.....


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## Moe599

I'm 41 years young. No i didn't take a bus drivers advice. That's why I went to the bus stop and seen for own eyes. I went early in the morning and late then midday. What I saw was total chaos. I witnessed two fights between drivers. Then what iced the cake was the fact that it looked like there was more buses and vans then people waiting. Probably a 10 to 1 ratio. Not my cup of tea. The chaos was worse then the traffic in downtown Cairo at 4pm.


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## marenostrum

Moe599 said:


> I'm 41 years young. No i didn't take a bus drivers advice. That's why I went to the bus stop and seen for own eyes. I went early in the morning and late then midday. What I saw was total chaos. I witnessed two fights between drivers. Then what iced the cake was the fact that it looked like there was more buses and vans then people waiting. Probably a 10 to 1 ratio. Not my cup of tea. The chaos was worse then the traffic in downtown Cairo at 4pm.


Do you work here at the moment?

Personally I would wait a little longer before looking into starting your own venture. The country is in turmoil and soon world finances might be if the yanks keep falling out over their economy....Egypt would be the first to suffer i doubt they would get the 6bn aid they get every year....

I would sit tight for a bit, It gives you sometime to research issues such as taxation, labour laws, banking system for business etc etc.


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## DeadGuy

MaidenScotland said:


> I did and what a brilliant weekend I had..
> 
> Ok.. I went to Mundamar to see a dolphin show (first time ever as I don´t really approve) anyway I sat down next to a Muslim family and greeted them in Arabic and not Hola about half way through the show the father commented to his daughter that the whore in front ( a girl dressed for a Spanish holiday and sitting with her arm around her boyfriend) was what he was making sure his daughter did not turn into of course the daughter was clad in black from head to foot strangely enough the mother wasn´t. I didn´t say anything until we left when I bade them goodbye in Arabic and added the comment.. that it is just as well the **** in front didn´t understand what he was saying as she might have thought he was a terrorist.


Wish more Europeans would react the same way you did......:clap2: :clap2:

It's amazing how those idiots would never find a problem sleeping with those "whores" though........Or even marrying them if they converted to Islam.........Or if they had the right bank account of course.........!!!

Fu*kin' hypocrites! :spit:


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## DeadGuy

Moe599 said:


> Very cautious minds here on the forum. All for good reason. Well I'm going to try to take it step by step. Does anyone know of a "honest" lawyer or business consultant that could help me start up a business. I need help in forming a corporation and all paperwork.
> 
> BTW. I switched gears from the bus transportation idea to a new advertising business. I went to the bus station with my future partner and spoke with some of the bus drivers to get an idea of how many trips they make a day to Alexandria. They all advised us not to do it. My guy said up to 4 roundtrips a day and on the other side of the spectrum they said maybe as little as 1 trip per 2-3 days. I know they both have their own agendas but that was too much for me.


Like marenostrum said, I'd wait before I invest a penny in Egypt...........Things are going totally wrong in here, and it's going down really fast...........

But in case you still wanna go for it, you should know that "honest" and "lawyer" don't fit together in Egypt.......The only thing I can say about finding a lawyer in here would be to ask for your embassy's recommendation AND to stick to it.......... And PLEASE, do NOT hire a lawyer that your Egyptian "Friend" would recommend.........

Best of luck!


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## hurghadapat

DeadGuy said:


> Like marenostrum said, I'd wait before I invest a penny in Egypt...........Things are going totally wrong in here, and it's going down really fast...........
> 
> But in case you still wanna go for it, you should know that "honest" and "lawyer" don't fit together in Egypt.......The only thing I can say about finding a lawyer in here would be to ask for your embassy's recommendation AND to stick to it.......... And PLEASE, do NOT hire a lawyer that your Egyptian "Friend" would recommend.........
> 
> Best of luck!


Embassy's recommendations are no guarantee that they are honest....believe me Dead Guy...:juggle:


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## DeadGuy

hurghadapat said:


> Embassy's recommendations are no guarantee that they are honest....believe me Dead Guy...:juggle:


I'm totally aware of that, and to be honest with you, the only reason I mentioned embassy's recommendations was that the lawyer(s) they'd recommend would at least be able to speak some decent English, also they wouldn't mind giving translations for documents in Arabic (By the way, translated documents should be stamped with the office's stamp in this case! Or else it would mean absolutely nothing!) :juggle:

Besides..........It would be much better than having a lawyer that got "common interests" with anyone's "business associate" like in the OP's case.......

As for Egyptian lawyers' honesty, it's a one in a thousand shot, if you're lucky anyway, they all worship money and would "sell" any client for the right sum of it.............You get f***ed by 999 lawyers before you find a good one in here........Pardon my language everyone


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## iCaesar

Moe599 said:


> Hello everyone. This is my first post. I'm fairly new to Egypt and new to this forum. I had an offer to invest in a transportation business. A taxi cab business. Does any know what the restrictions are for foreigners? I'm from the U.S. This may sound like a dumb question but Can I trust someone here? Has anyone had any experience trying to start a new business here? I know it's a topic that can require lots of questions and answers but any info would be great! Thanks!


Can you trust someone here ? - Yea , One in a million. (No kidding. Everyone skims here.)
anyone had any experience trying to start a new business here? Me. A Swiss/Egyptian. Closed down the business after a severe Tax raid.
Everything here is Risky. Everything. And if the People wont get you , the government will. Stay on the safe side , Invest back home , where you can track back all your money.
Thats not the brightest idea .. Take care. 
John


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## Moe599

Caesar. I am so cautious it's discouraging. I have a really good idea that no one has done here but I am not sure what to do or who to trust. I have met with three different attorneys and don't trust anyone of them. Just so sad


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## iCaesar

Yep. am afraid its like that here. Trustworthy people that you can depend on are very hard to find 
and btw. Not all new ideas are big here.. just the ones that get lucky :O


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## adam4449

Be very carful. I'm an Egyptian who been in the US for 25 years and I'm sorry to say that it's hard to trust Some Egyptians when it comes to opening your own business. Its even hard for me to do so. It's like dealing with some new yorkers. But at least if you get a lawyer here in the US you know you won't be ripped off by who ever you dealing with ( just the lawyer will rip you off ) but in Egypt you might be ripped off by your partner, Customer, and the lawyer. The only thing that you can trust if buying an apartment from a big knowing company like Alrehab and rent it for a $1000 a month and the value goes up every day. Egyptian people are great people but it's not a good idea for you to deal with them when it comes to dealing with money. 

Proud American Egyptian
Best regards


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## Helen Ellis

hurghadapat said:


> Embassy's recommendations are no guarantee that they are honest....believe me Dead Guy...:juggle:


Not in Hurghada anyway, don't go with the Embassy recommendation.


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## ma7dy

I will give you my comment on how the Taxi owners in Egypt control the Taxi driver from ripping them off, they agree the driver must pay the owner 100LE net per day(100LE is just an example) for using the Taxi and it is the responsibility of the Driver to get this amount of money by whatever means, and any amount over the 100LE is for the driver. the amount is usually calculated from experience(or average Taxi yield for a certain time)


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## Moe599

I just hired my first employee. I did some research and I am getting conflicting answers into what is the average work week. How many work days and work hours are there in a work week here? The employee is salary and I believe that I am paying much more than the average salary here in Egypt. Is it five days or six days 
per week and how many hours per day? Any info would be greatly appreciated.

Sent from my iPhone using ExpatForum


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## MaidenScotland

Moe599 said:


> I just hired my first employee. I did some research and I am getting conflicting answers into what is the average work week. How many work days and work hours are there in a work week here? The employee is salary and I believe that I am paying much more than the average salary here in Egypt. Is it five days or six days
> per week and how many hours per day? Any info would be greatly appreciated.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using ExpatForum


Egyptians tend to do a 6 day week... Average salary for what occupation?

Sent from my iPad using ExpatForum


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## Moe599

Well I hired him as a "Go to Guy" for now but the position that I hired him for is Graphic Designer. It will take about a month or so to get things started. Basically I hired him early to help me start up and show me around. 

In the US, if your salary your hours are not the typical 40 hours per week. How many hours per day is demanded of an salary employee here in Egypt?

Sent from my iPhone using ExpatForum


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## bat

Moe599 said:


> Well I hired him as a "Go to Guy" for now but the position that I hired him for is Graphic Designer. It will take about a month or so to get things started. Basically I hired him early to help me start up and show me around.
> 
> In the US, if your salary your hours are not the typical 40 hours per week. How many hours per day is demanded of an salary employee here in Egypt?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using ExpatForum


By letting him help you start up etc, then he will get the impression that he's more than a hired help and, this could lead to trouble down the road. 
5-6 days it's up to you and and the demands of your buissness, but 5 day week means they have 2 days at there other job!
As for the working hours, also figure in there breakfast break as soon as they get to work, there many tea breaks, and there mobile time, and the afternoon nap 2 hours before they clock off. Salary wise, mine field , no body tells the truth about how much they pay, or how much they receive.
Bat


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## Moe599

Bat you got me Lmao. That was good. I think I could handle him. Just no sure about handling the rest of Cairo. I think I'm paying him well enough to work him the six days. Do you think its wrong? I don't want to take advantage of the situation. Still laughing.

Sent from my iPhone using ExpatForum


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## mamasue

Moe.... 6 days a week is pretty good.
The first job I did.....I had 2 days off a month!
Believe me.....you're not taking advantage!!!


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## bat

Having said that, don't take any notice of what I say as I've only been back 2 weeks and I've already been sacked twice, and I'm the best employee they've got. So I'm sitting at home playing angry birds thinking shall I start negotiations for a pay rise when I'm reinstated,and if I'm not reinstated shall I just go to the wages guy and see if anybody's told him, and see how long they pay my salary before anyone informs him(he likes me)and I know there are people still " getting paid" who left the company 2 years ago, (still not figured out how he does that).
So don't worry about " taking advantage" believe me your not.


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## Moe599

What about holding their first weeks pay? Paying them on the second week for the first week. I know a lot businesses do that at home. Also it kind of protects you if something ever happened. This may also make them think twice before they do something stupid. 

Your situation is amusing. I'm amused on how disfunctional it is here. These are the of kind stories that worry me about this business venture.

Sent from my iPhone using ExpatForum


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## bat

Moe599 said:


> What about holding their first weeks pay? Paying them on the second week for the first week. I know a lot businesses do that at home. Also it kind of protects you if something ever happened. This may also make them think twice before they do something stupid.
> 
> Your situation is amusing. I'm amused on how disfunctional it is here. These are the of kind stories that worry me about this business venture.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using ExpatForum


Who said anything about dysfunctional , this is the norm.
People get paid monthly , and there will be no with holding pay for stupidity, there are no second thoughts about, stealing goods ( so with hold my pay I get more from stealing your goods , customers , ideas.) going off to the village, for 5 days on my one day off, any number of relatives dying, going to hospital, the list is endless. Sometimes it's just not about the money, and don't forget there are laws about what as an foreigner employer they will let you get away with.
Our night security guy clocked in then complained as he was on his own how could he take a break, but when the office closed he skipped work to work in his own sandwich shop, whilst supposed to on duty, everyone knew, but no body said anything because there all doing something they should not be doing, he was caught 3 times before we fired him as it was all he has a wife child etc etc.
So again not disfunctional, normal.


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## Moe599

Well Bat you hit it on the bulls eye. I cant believe it already started. My new employee has just sent me a text after being two hours late that he has a "family emergency" and he " wants to delay out meeting". It's not a meeting it's your job. Unbelievable it is his second day at work!! I am so pissed off! Is this really how it is? He seemed really promising and educated, that I thought well maybe I shouldn't stereotype. Unfreaking believable!!! I'm starting to really understand why this private driver I used all the time in Rehab City always told me "Welcome to Egypt" every time we talked about Egyptian daily life.

Sent from my iPhone using ExpatForum


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## bat

Moe599 said:


> Well Bat you hit it on the bulls eye. I cant believe it already started. My new employee has just sent me a text after being two hours late that he has a "family emergency" and he " wants to delay out meeting". It's not a meeting it's your job. Unbelievable it is his second day at work!! I am so pissed off! Is this really how it is? He seemed really promising and educated, that I thought well maybe I shouldn't stereotype. Unfreaking believable!!! I'm starting to really understand why this private driver I used all the time in Rehab City always told me "Welcome to Egypt" every time we talked about Egyptian daily life.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using ExpatForum


So he's now your partner, sack him. Harsh, but welcome to the mad house!!


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## MaidenScotland

Moe599 said:


> Well Bat you hit it on the bulls eye. I cant believe it already started. My new employee has just sent me a text after being two hours late that he has a "family emergency" and he " wants to delay out meeting". It's not a meeting it's your job. Unbelievable it is his second day at work!! I am so pissed off! Is this really how it is? He seemed really promising and educated, that I thought well maybe I shouldn't stereotype. Unfreaking believable!!! I'm starting to really understand why this private driver I used all the time in Rehab City always told me "Welcome to Egypt" every time we talked about Egyptian daily life.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using ExpatForum




Yep that is exactly how it is... now you know why companies want expats.


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## iCaesar

Moe599 said:


> Well Bat you hit it on the bulls eye. I cant believe it already started. My new employee has just sent me a text after being two hours late that he has a "family emergency" and he " wants to delay out meeting". It's not a meeting it's your job. Unbelievable it is his second day at work!! I am so pissed off! Is this really how it is? He seemed really promising and educated, that I thought well maybe I shouldn't stereotype. Unfreaking believable!!! I'm starting to really understand why this private driver I used all the time in Rehab City always told me "Welcome to Egypt" every time we talked about Egyptian daily life.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using ExpatForum


Welcome in Egypt!


its a saying in Arabic .. "Yeb2a enta akeed fe Masr".. it means that it only happens in Egypt. (You are for sure in Egypt)


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## Moe599

Well I'm not giving up yet on the locals. Maybe because I'm a " Virgin" with the work force here. It was sure was one hell of a fast ball for a strike. I'm going to step back to the plate and try again. I really can't understand it. I gave him a really good salary by Egyptian standards. Maybe it was a fluke. I'll update with the next one. Thanks for all the "positive criticism".

Sent from my iPhone using ExpatForum


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## iCaesar

No matter how much you give him , it will never be enough on his standards. =)


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## GM1

tell him that for each day that he doesn't show up (or makes up an excuse after he had to be at work) you will cut TWO days of salary.


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## bat

As I said before, it's not always about the money, and many companies deduct 3 not 2 days pay for absenteeism ,
A lot of owners live with the problems that we spke about , they know that the only way to deal with it is ti accept there losses, and make enough money to cover this.
You can tie your self in knots trying to find ways round all these work problems and end up hating the people who work for you, so it seems to be treat them fair but very firm, and just don't fall for there stories.
And yes I've been reinstated, but have visitors so no work for me for next 2 weeks , such are the hardships of life.
Bat


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## MaidenScotland

One thing to be careful of when employing locals is make sure you do not employ relatives.. IMO this just leads to more problems than it is worth.. do your own recruiting and dont allow your staff to tell you about a great person they know who is looking for work


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## bat

MaidenScotland said:


> One thing to be careful of when employing locals is make sure you do not employ relatives.. IMO this just leads to more problems than it is worth.. do your own recruiting and dont allow your staff to tell you about a great person they know who is looking for work


The problem with that is some times you end up employing relatives with out realizing it, and it only comes to light when there's a problem in the village , family what ever and half your staff go missing!!
And cv are not what they seem, they lie, and checking cvs another headache as they put friends numbers etc so when you think your talking to the president of orascom etc your really talking to there dad!!
Bat


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## MaidenScotland

bat said:


> The problem with that is some times you end up employing relatives with out realizing it, and it only comes to light when there's a problem in the village , family what ever and half your staff go missing!!
> And cv are not what they seem, they lie, and checking cvs another headache as they put friends numbers etc so when you think your talking to the president of orascom etc your really talking to there dad!!
> Bat[/QUOTEEven better is when your drivers twin brother ends up being a security guard with you and they deny that they are relatives...


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## DeadGuy

Moe599 said:


> Well I'm not giving up yet on the locals. Maybe because I'm a " Virgin" with the work force here. It was sure was one hell of a fast ball for a strike. I'm going to step back to the plate and try again. I really can't understand it. I gave him a really good salary by Egyptian standards. Maybe it was a fluke. I'll update with the next one. Thanks for all the "positive criticism".
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using ExpatForum


I don't mean to intrude on your business plans or anything like that, you already got some really useful advice in here, but few "mistakes" that I think you've made:

First mistake you did: Hiring someone as a "Go to guy"! Specially if your Arabic isn't THAT good, he'll just think he's untouchable cause you "need" him for basically everything! (Not saying that you do, but I'm sure he'll find ways to convince himself so!).

Second mistake: You're asking if it's a 5/6 days week in here?! For you it should be a 10 days week! You're paying the guy, in other words, he's yours (Might sound harsh, but that's how it goes, and if you don't make silly demands?! Asking him to wash your car or something like that? He shouldn't have a problem with doing the work he was hired to do if he wanted to keep his job!).

Third mistake: Paying him extra! Why? To make him feel "lucky"? Like iCaesar said already, no matter how much you're gonna pay, it will never be enough by his standards, if he had any, and my personal opinion about it? You already gave him a job, he should EARN the extra money, shouldn't be taken for granted that he's getting paid extra no matter what!

Fourth mistake: I can tell you're keeping a "friendly" attitude at work, which should be fine, but only if it's appreciated and respected, but once the "friendly" attitude is misinterpreted, it will turn the whole thing into a joke......If it was him hiring you, he'd probably tell you that "business is business"! So that's how it should be for him as well, business, he's late? He's getting EGP off his salary, he doesn't get his work done? EGP off his salary, meaning, you shouldn't make a habit of accepting excuses......specially the lame ones.....

Sorry if I sound harsh, but just trying to help!

Good luck!


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## Moe599

No worries DeadGuy. 

Let me rebut or acknowledge in an orderly fashion. 

First. You may be partially right here. Him as a "Go to Guy" is to my benefit. I would use him, and I would use the words loosely as a resource to get off and running. Then once I'm through the logistical nightmare of starting up in a foreign country he would go back to work as the hired position. For all I care he came convince himself he's Britney Spears. 

Second. Here I would think that I am limited by labor laws as to how many hours and days one could work. 

Third. I'm not paying him "Extra". I believe I'm paying him very well by Egyptian standards. I just hoped that by paying him well "you get what you pay for". 

Fourth. I agree with you 100% here. Business is Business. Also I am not sure if you can dock pay yet. I have an appointment with my fourth attorney to get the particulars on the "Do's and Dont's". 

I've been in business for many years and when I was back in the states I had a "Zero Tolerance" for this kind of behavior. I guess as the saying goes "Welcome To Egypt"

Thanks for all the advice guys and gals

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## marenostrum

Moe599 said:


> No worries DeadGuy.
> 
> Let me rebut or acknowledge in an orderly fashion.
> 
> First. You may be partially right here. Him as a "Go to Guy" is to my benefit. I would use him, and I would use the words loosely as a resource to get off and running. Then once I'm through the logistical nightmare of starting up in a foreign country he would go back to work as the hired position. For all I care he came convince himself he's Britney Spears.
> 
> Second. Here I would think that I am limited by labor laws as to how many hours and days one could work.
> 
> Third. I'm not paying him "Extra". I believe I'm paying him very well by Egyptian standards. I just hoped that by paying him well "you get what you pay for".
> 
> Fourth. I agree with you 100% here. Business is Business. Also I am not sure if you can dock pay yet. I have an appointment with my fourth attorney to get the particulars on the "Do's and Dont's".
> 
> I've been in business for many years and when I was back in the states I had a "Zero Tolerance" for this kind of behavior. I guess as the saying goes "Welcome To Egypt"
> 
> Thanks for all the advice guys and gals
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using ExpatForum


If I were you I would drop the politeness and use more of the baseball bat treatment with your employees.
At the end of they day this country needs more people like you who can provide jobs and they should snatch your hand off for the jobs you are offering and looking to put in a good effort form you. If they can't do that tell them to p...s off and find someone else. Eventually you'll get a decent employee. 

If you have people working on computers in your office makes sure you install software to check their internet usage. I have found that watching porn during working hours on a work PC is quite popular so keep an eye :ranger:


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