# Solar panels ..... again.



## SpiggyTopes (Feb 1, 2015)

Hi All,

I've just started researching this.

A simple system for hot water only, plumbed in to our existing gas water heater.

The companies I've seen so far offer kits at a reasonable price but are based in the Algarve, and I'd prefer to go and talk to a local supplier.

Anybody have any links for me to follow?

Please!


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## MrBife (Jul 26, 2009)

None of this equipment is made in Portugal (sadly) they all bring it in from elsewhere. Perhaps you could bring in from the UK ?

I have successfully used Evacuated Tube Panels - Solar Panels Water Heating | Navitron

But there is equipment available in your area from the bigger DIY warehouses like Leroy Merlin + options via plumbing companies you can track down on Páginas Amarelas: Telefones, Moradas e Contactos de Empresas Portuguesas 

This is proven technology now and really all down to price - just be sure to do the 'payback time' calculation as for the €3000 a basic system would cost you can buy a LOT of gas bottles.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

MrBife said:


> None of this equipment is made in Portugal (sadly) they all bring it in from elsewhere. Perhaps you could bring in from the UK ?
> 
> I have successfully used Evacuated Tube Panels - Solar Panels Water Heating | Navitron
> 
> ...


If I remember correctly ours cost about 1200€ for the panel, tank and all the plumbing into the instantaneous gas water heater plumbing circuit all installed by the local plumber. We have manual changeover valves to switch from one system to the other. It usually gives us hot water from March to November (depending on the sun)


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## SpiggyTopes (Feb 1, 2015)

Than ks for the replies.


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## No1steveb (Jul 3, 2012)

Hi all

We have had solar panels installed that were installed primarily to heat the pool in the cooler months.

They supply electricity to our domestic network rather than hot water.

They "sit" in front of the EDP panel so that the solar energy/power is used first - up to 1.5kw and then when demand goes over this, EDP kicks in.

There is no storage facility so they produce power and its a "use it or lose it" scenario.

My issue is that we have no "generation meter" . Therefore we have no idea how much the panels are producing at any one time , or if indeed they are working. 

Our supplier states they do not provide them and the only ones I can find on the internet are for monitoring Solar systems that supplier power back to the grid - and reompense is claimed later by what your household had produced.

Does any one know of a home meter that simply states that our panels are working and how much power they are supplying at any one time ?

With thanks in advance for any replies.


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## MrBife (Jul 26, 2009)

One of these would do the job ...

Energy Monitors | OWL Micro+ | The OWL

Its just an example and there are other brands 

These people do one specifically for solar systems

Solar Monitors - Online Energy Monitors - Energy Monitoring


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## No1steveb (Jul 3, 2012)

MrBife said:


> One of these would do the job ...
> 
> Energy Monitors | OWL Micro+ | The OWL
> 
> ...


Many thanks for the prompt reply. Im grateful for you taking the time to read my post and replying...

But...and theres always a but , isn't there...

Efergy was one of the sites I had researched...although the problem is what I stated in my original post;
"The Engage Solar works only for Gross Metering Systems. Gross metering solar systems have been set up to send all the solar power they generate to the grid. This means you pay for all the energy you use in your household – and receive a payment (or a ‘feed-in tari ’) for the solar energy your system feeds back into the grid."

And the OWL link only shows a monitor that displays the electricity consumption.

This is my issue...I cant seem to find anything that tells me what the panels are producing. Seems absolutely crazy. I could have been sold a load of old tosh for all I know. Comparison of year upon year EDP bills will perhaps tell in time ..but thats not the point. When purchasing the things I assumed, now wrongly I guess, that that advice of electricity production levels would be a "given".

Any ideas gratefully received...


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

No1steveb said:


> Many thanks for the prompt reply. Im grateful for you taking the time to read my post and replying...
> 
> But...and theres always a but , isn't there...
> 
> ...


Try:
Solar Power Meterï½œinstaligo


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## MrBife (Jul 26, 2009)

No1steveb said:


> And the OWL link only shows a monitor that displays the electricity consumption.
> 
> ..


Wrong, the Owl unit or any other similar unit displays the power flow in the cables it is connected to. If you put it next to your electricity meter it will display consumption BUT if you clip it to the cables from the solar panels it will give you a reading of the actual production of the panels in watts.

Even simpler would be a clamp ammeter (£10 from ebay) which gives you a reading of the current flow in any particular cable at the moment you use it. Ohms law will enable you to calculate the wattage.


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## Strontium (Sep 16, 2015)

I have no connection with the company be we use these made by Micha in the uk, 4 separate inputs so different banks of panels or wind generators can join in. Can reset to zero so can compare slight position changes VS cumulative power output






no1steveb said:


> many thanks for the prompt reply. Im grateful for you taking the time to read my post and replying...
> 
> But...and theres always a but , isn't there...
> 
> ...


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## Strontium (Sep 16, 2015)

SpiggyTopes said:


> Hi All,
> 
> I've just started researching this.
> 
> ...



Hi,

LeroyMerlin (and others) do a range of the standalone passive solar water heater panels and integrated tanks of the type widely used for many years which work on a thermo syphon method there are no pumps nor electricity needed. Any plumber can fit these directly to provide solar preheated water to your gas fired boiler thus cutting down or eliminating the use of gas depending upon the temperature of the water. More sophisticated systems are available but with added complications and cost. As you will not need to extract ever last therm of energy from the sun as midday is approxametely 1kW per square meter. An estimate from a good system 100l water tank raising the water temp from 20C to 70C from a 3 square meter panel around midday is two hours. 70C is hotter then your gas water heater should be set to produce. If you were to source the solar stuff elsewhere it would be remarkably cheaper Turkey, for instance, where these systems are ubiquitous, 


Kit solar termossifão - JUNKERS P 150L - Leroy Merlin


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Strontium said:


> Hi,
> 
> LeroyMerlin (and others) do a range of the standalone passive solar water heater panels and integrated tanks of the type widely used for many years which work on a thermo syphon method there are no pumps nor electricity needed. Any plumber can fit these directly to provide solar preheated water to your gas fired boiler thus cutting down or eliminating the use of gas depending upon the temperature of the water. More sophisticated systems are available but with added complications and cost. As you will not need to extract ever last therm of energy from the sun as midday is approxametely 1kW per square meter. An estimate from a good system 100l water tank raising the water temp from 20C to 70C from a 3 square meter panel around midday is two hours. 70C is hotter then your gas water heater should be set to produce. If you were to source the solar stuff elsewhere it would be remarkably cheaper Turkey, for instance, where these systems are ubiquitous,
> 
> ...


We have similar but we got our local plumber (in Spain) to source and fit panel and tank. In our case they are separate and the tank sits in the attic just behind where the panel is situated outside. If you are going to have the type with integral tank, you need to check that the roof will take the load (1 litre of water = 1kg plus the weight of the tank [25-30 kg upwards] plus the weight of the panel, etc)


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