# London - Dubai Comparison



## crazymazy1980 (Aug 2, 2008)

I know like-for-like comparisons are not going to be an exact science but I was talking to an architect about the cost of living here and we compared different districts of London to see whether it was really that expensive here. Dubai Marina/JBR for example was compared to Canary Wharf and Sharjah and Ajman compared to one of the satellite towns around London (say Billericay). 

I just had a look on Rightmove - UK's number one property website for properties for sale and to rent and to rent a 'cheap' studio apartment in Canary Wharf it roughly costs (AED annually):

Rent 108K
Council Tax 11K
Community Charge 14K
Buildings/Contents Insurance 3.7K
Utilitties (TV, Gas, Water, Electricity) 6.4K
Internet 1.2K

Total = 144.3K

Now that's for a cheap one, there were some that were considerably more expensive. I have looked at Dubizzle and you can rent a studio apartment in Dubai Marina for less than this. So, my question is; is it really that expensive here overall? Everything else seems fairly cheap (fuel, utilities, no tax) or is it people have an unrealistic view of where they are willing to live? 

Personally, and now that I have thought about it, if I worked in London I wouldn't live as close to the city as I do here, I'd live further out and commute in by train/tube (would never bring a car into London!). I know you can't get a train here (yet) but I don't think the traffic here is any worse than the massive tailbacks I've been stuck in on the M25  If I didn't have such a nice place to live (albeit at a premium) and I wanted to save more money I'd probably live in Ajman or Sharjah and drive in.

Interested to hear what other people think about this?


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## Andy Capp (Oct 5, 2008)

having lived in London (well Amersham) just before I came here, I was paying about 1500/UKP permonth for a 3 bed townhouse, commuting each day into the City (where I worked), about a tenner a day for a travelcard, yes I did have a car but only used it to go to the station and at weekends, say 500 incl fuel etc./month.

What I do find expensive here is alcohol costs, eating out is not expensive unless you want booze with your kebab. Try the restaurants in Al Diyafah street for example. 

So is London cheeper, I'd have to say no, if you do a like for like (ie Canary Wharf/marina, licensed premises etc.) Dubai definately costs more, but if you lived a bit out (like Ajman, ate in "normal" restaurants and drove a normal car, then it's far cheaper here.

Swings and roundabouts bonny lad!


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## alli (Mar 6, 2008)

crazymazy, you have way too much time on your hands.


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## Maz25 (Jul 6, 2008)

I worked in Kings Cross and decided to live in SE London (probably cause that was one of the few places I could afford!!). I paid 700 for a one-bed and bills and stuff (not including food) costs about 120 a month. Plus, I had to part with 140 pounds each month, to stand under someone's armpits, stuck against the door on the lovely London transport network!!!

I even parted company with my car cause if the price of petrol did not bankrupt me, then the congestion charge and parking would have finished me off! 

In my view, Dubai ain't that bad. I am a lot better off here and can actually dig in my purse for money, without first taking out my handy spreadsheet and trying to figure out if I can afford it. It wouldn't have been so bad if mr taxman wasn't so greedy!!! At the end of the day, if you do your research before you move here, then there should not be any nasty surprises.

Crazymazy - You need to learn all the shortcuts when driving in London. I always picked up the M25 at the last possible junction. Saved me being on it for longer than I needed to and it means that I could cut in in front of people like yourself who had been waiting there forever!!!  I say avoid the M25 if you can!


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## Maz25 (Jul 6, 2008)

alli said:


> crazymazy, you have way too much time on your hands.



I was thinking the same thing!


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## crazymazy1980 (Aug 2, 2008)

alli said:


> crazymazy, you have way too much time on your hands.


Only for the time being , soon won't have time to post as often, going to be a busy bee.


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## crazymazy1980 (Aug 2, 2008)

Maz25 said:


> Crazymazy - You need to learn all the shortcuts when driving in London. I always picked up the M25 at the last possible junction. Saved me being on it for longer than I needed to and it means that I could cut in in front of people like yourself who had been waiting there forever!!!  I say avoid the M25 if you can!


I did, it was that bad I left the country.  I'm definitely with Chris Rea on the M25!


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## cphoenix (Sep 23, 2008)

London is one of the most expensive cities in the world, I hear. Saying that Dubai isn't so bad compared to London, isn't saying that Dubai is affordable!

I been in Dubai for two years. Before that I was in Arizona where I lived in a 2-bedroom, luxury, gated-community, low-rise apartment complex (better than Uptown Mirdiff) for $1,300/month. It was full of college girls (and guys) and when you go to the pool, it's like instant spring break. But there were families there, too. 

Just outside the complex was a 24/7 CVS (drugstore / supermarket). Two blocks away was another 24/7 Safeway. But you didn't have to go there because they let you shop online and have your groceries delivered to your home on the third floor for an additional $10. Beer was sold in the gas station in the same intersection as the apartment complex. I didn't even have to show ID to the friendly, yet intelligent, clerk. People knew how to use email, craigslist.org, and eBay. Nothing was wasted! The roads were masterfully laid-out and it was so easy and relaxing to drive around the city...

Dubai is the opposite of everything said above, yet it is much more expensive.


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## FlyingDodo (Aug 26, 2008)

I guess the main saving in Dubai, is that even if Canary Wharf apartments cost similar compared with the Marina etc, you are not paying income tax in dubai so the main benefit lies with that?

From what I have seen, rental costs in Dubai appear to balance out against rental in central parts of London (i.e. within 15mins on the Tube from Central) when you take the tax benefit into account.


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## Sam75 (Jul 2, 2008)

I find the cost of living here is pretty much the same as London.

I'm paying about the same price to rent a two bedroom apartment here (in JBR) as in London (in West Hampstead). 5 min walk to the beach here, which is fantastic, but 10 mins walk to Hampstead Health and a couple of tube stops to Lord's/Regent's Park, which are equally nice. The size of the apartments here is bigger - so more value for money.

Catching taxis here (and the lack of public transport) can be frustrating, but then being stuck in Canary Wharf when the Jubilee line is down is no fun either and cabs in London are exorbitant.

Food here is cheaper but alcohol is more expensive, so a dinner with wine comes to the same as London.

Speaking of food, I think it's hard to find quality, fresh produce either here or London ... at least, not like what we have back in Australia.


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## DesertStranded (Oct 9, 2008)

Has anyone else heard about the plans for Dubai to introduce VAT (value added tax) sometime next year? I read about it in Gulf News. I'm wondering if they are still planning on it. If that happens I see alot of expats leaving for neighboring countries that remain tax free. Why would any expat want to pay taxes that they will never see any benefit from. Especially since not wanting to pay taxes anymore is why most westerners come here. I never understood that myself. Personally, i'd rather be back in the west paying taxes and getting something in return for it.


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## Maz25 (Jul 6, 2008)

This idea has been bouncing around for a while. There are already hidden taxes in Dubai and VAT would not affect your salary as such, until you decide to go in the shop and buy something. The result of VAT would be a slight increase in commodity prices - your salary will still be tax free - you'll just get less for your money! I am against VAT but at the end of the day, there are very few places in the world where you can get away with not paying anything. As an expat, you will always end up for services that you scarcely use - I wouldn't put down Dubai based on that! I lived in London for 6 years and the taxman nearly crippled me! Did I get anything out of it? No! But then again, no one forced me to stay there and I had the option to leave at anytime. I think when you weigh up the gains/ benefits of being in Dubai, 3% is not going to hurt anyone and when it comes to VAT, you don't benefit from it in any case - it goes straight into the Government's coffers and is very different to income tax!


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## cphoenix (Sep 23, 2008)

Roads, police and government administration cost money. Dubai residents aren't paying for this now; at least not through direct taxes.

But the government of Dubai is still very profitable by being able to extract money from Dubai residents and businesses through elaborate schemes of licensing, fees, and control of the economy.

For almost all business transactions, the government gets a cut. 

For example, the government owns big portions of Nakheel and Emaar, through which they get to control accommodation prices and charge all kinds of fees. As an owner in International City, you must pay high service fees so that Nakheel can send a couple of laborers to sweep the dust off the doorsteps. This is only for the real estate industry, which I guess is the biggest money maker for the government. But they also have a tight control over almost all other industries.

The reason Dubai is expensive and compared to Western countries, you don't really get back much in return is because half of the "cost of living" in Dubai goes to keep the government happy!


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## crazymazy1980 (Aug 2, 2008)

DesertStranded said:


> Especially since not wanting to pay taxes anymore is why most westerners come here. I never understood that myself. Personally, i'd rather be back in the west paying taxes and getting something in return for it.


I never came here not to pay tax, I came here to gain more experience and then return to the UK. I will happily pay the tax of whichever country I am in. At the moment the only tax I seem to pay is the Salik but I don't begrudge it because I use the SZR - it wasn't free to be built and it isn't free to be maintained - the books have to be balanced. Do people really think that everything should be free? Do people really think that Infrastructure, Education, Health, a Social security system come from the same place I thought my washing got cleaned when I was a kid?

I know a lot of people see things from a 'I should only have to pay for what I use' mentality so things like Private Health Care, Private Education and Pension Schemes etc seem attractive and that's what we have in Dubai and if you can afford it brilliant. If your family is wealthy brilliant. But what about the genius child from the poorest family who could potentially find the cure for cancer or solve the world's energy problems (things that could help everyone) but can't because they came from a poor family and thus will never get the chance to go to a good school. What about the hard working support staff working on the poverty line losing their jobs because of irresponsible risk-takers gambling with everybody's lives? What about old age pensioners who have can't afford their heating bills.

If all the high earners cut and run and take their money out of the system (that we benefited from, gained an education from etc) then those that are on much less will have to suffer the greater burden and all that we had to get us where we are now will erode. Society will suffer as a whole. I for one think in the 21st Century we, as a mature society, should have more social responsibilty to each other and give those with less at least the chance to better themselves and have some decent quality of life.

Most of us, if not all of us, got here because our previous generations paid tax (or have a massive amount of oil revenue). We have all benefited from our previous generations paying tax and now it's our turn to dip into our pockets...

...is that so bad?


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## bubble_boy (May 28, 2008)

Well said crazymazy. It still hurts giving away your hard earned money though.


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## newtodubai (Oct 10, 2008)

I'm [hopefully] moving from London to Dubai fairly soon and this thread has been very useful!

I'm use to paying around £800 not including bills for a room in a flat in Clapham and have been offered a housing allowance of 7,500AED per month. If I'm going to be based here:
Office 312, Al-Safeenah Building, Near Lamcy Plaza, Dubai, PO Box 50653, United Arab Emirates
where would you say is the nearest/nicest place to live? I would ideally like to be able to walk to work [but appreciate that may be a tall order!]. Any help/advice [or priortisation on areas to look at] would be great!


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## Maz25 (Jul 6, 2008)

crazymazy1980 said:


> I never came here not to pay tax, I came here to gain more experience and then return to the UK. I will happily pay the tax of whichever country I am in. At the moment the only tax I seem to pay is the Salik but I don't begrudge it because I use the SZR - it wasn't free to be built and it isn't free to be maintained - the books have to be balanced. Do people really think that everything should be free? Do people really think that Infrastructure, Education, Health, a Social security system come from the same place I thought my washing got cleaned when I was a kid?
> 
> I know a lot of people see things from a 'I should only have to pay for what I use' mentality so things like Private Health Care, Private Education and Pension Schemes etc seem attractive and that's what we have in Dubai and if you can afford it brilliant. If your family is wealthy brilliant. But what about the genius child from the poorest family who could potentially find the cure for cancer or solve the world's energy problems (things that could help everyone) but can't because they came from a poor family and thus will never get the chance to go to a good school. What about the hard working support staff working on the poverty line losing their jobs because of irresponsible risk-takers gambling with everybody's lives? What about old age pensioners who have can't afford their heating bills.
> 
> ...


Who's writing essays now!!!! I never knew you felt so strongly about this!!! Did someone touch a raw nerve!!! 

But seriously, you do have a point. I, for one, hate it when people move abroad and then start complaining about everything and anything! I think if we move to someone else's country, the least we could do is thank them for welcoming us rather than moan. And as you have rightly said, we use the same roads, education system for our kids, healthcare system, etc and so we should at least foot our share of the bill! At the end of the day, if we hate it that much, I say 'make your way to the nearest exit!'


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