# Electric meter



## dixiedo (Oct 6, 2014)

Hope someone might be able to advise me please.
I am in the process of renovating an old country house (it is not a ruin) that will be a holiday home when finished. The work included rewiring, and all the work is being done by an English builder whilst as i live in the UK. All mains services are in the property and fully working, however we have discovered that the box at the end of my long drive that should house the electric meter is in fact empty! 
How can i get a meter installed?


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## jonmlb748 (Oct 30, 2011)

unfortunately you could be entering a horrible world of pain ,the meter normally gets taken away when bills are outstanding .to get it reinstalled you will need to get it rewired to 2014 standards by a qualified (more than likely Spanish electrician ) any outstanding bills will have to be paid by you.you will then need a bulletin issued from your qualified electrician before they will reconnect you.try and find a registered electrician .there is no point having it rewired by your English builder ,it won't pass muster ,their really is no alternative to getting it done properly.all of this could take months.better buy a genny to keep you going.
sorry to tell you all this but I've just gone through all this for a client recently,good luck


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## dixiedo (Oct 6, 2014)

Many thanks for your reply, it all sounds like it might be very costly and probably hopeless and i have no idea how long the meter might have been missing. Maybe going self sufficient might be the answer with either a genny or perhaps solar.


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## olivefarmer (Oct 16, 2012)

Have you been receiving bills?

Have they had meter readings on them?

If yes perhaps the meter is somewhere else.

If not then the supply might be builders electric.


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## extranjero (Nov 16, 2012)

dixiedo said:


> Many thanks for your reply, it all sounds like it might be very costly and probably hopeless and i have no idea how long the meter might have been missing. Maybe going self sufficient might be the answer with either a genny or perhaps solar.


Using a generator works out very expensive, and is noisy.
Rewiring and boletin wil be very expensive indeed, 
You don't have much choice, though


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## whitenoiz (Sep 18, 2012)

The meter will be installed by the supplying company eg., Endesa or Iberdrola (or one of its sub contractors) with whom you will need to set up a contract. 
It is a pre requisite that you as the property owner, are in possession of a Licence of First Occupation. This is issued by the local town hall on completion of reformation / renovation or new build work and is dependent upon a further document signed off by a qualified and registered Technical Architect and is confirmation that the work carried out at the property is in accordance with current building regulations and is compliant with the details recorded in the original Licence de Obras previously issued by the town hall as a sort of planning permission document. 
As *jonmlb * has indicated the electrical work carried out at the property must be signed off by a qualified and registered electician and this certification is in the form of a 'Bolletin.' Only when all the documentation is set up and correct will the power supply company set up the contract. 
The contract itself will specify the maximum power you are allowed to draw from the grid; the minimum these days is probably either 5.75KWh, 7.5KWh or 9.2 KWh. The choice of power consumption is down to you as the client but under specifying your needs will lead to frequent supply trips if you try to demand more than the contracted figure. 
You also need to be aware of the scale of charges; the electricity itself is the same price regardless of the contract but the Standing Charge is fixed by the contracted consumption figure. 
e.g. A 9,2KWh supply brings with it a standing charge of approx 62 Euros every two months which is payable regardless of whether the property is occupied or not; lower contracted power supplies attract lower standing charges. 
The Spanish Government apply a special electricity tax on the actual consumption and VAT (IVA) is applied to the total bill at 21%. 

Leccy bills over here can be quite daunting if the house is inefficient in terms of insulation, the climate in Inland Andalucia is cold in Winter and very hot in the summer... so heating and cooling costs definitely figure in the equation...

Hope this is of some help.


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

whitenoiz said:


> The meter will be installed by the supplying company eg., Endesa or Iberdrola (or one of its sub contractors) with whom you will need to set up a contract.
> It is a pre requisite that you as the property owner, are in possession of a Licence of First Occupation. This is issued by the local town hall on completion of reformation / renovation or new build work and is dependent upon a further document signed off by a qualified and registered Technical Architect and is confirmation that the work carried out at the property is in accordance with current building regulations and is compliant with the details recorded in the original Licence de Obras previously issued by the town hall as a sort of planning permission document.
> As *jonmlb * has indicated the electrical work carried out at the property must be signed off by a qualified and registered electician and this certification is in the form of a 'Bolletin.' Only when all the documentation is set up and correct will the power supply company set up the contract.
> The contract itself will specify the maximum power you are allowed to draw from the grid; the minimum these days is probably either 5.75KWh, 7.5KWh or 9.2 KWh. The choice of power consumption is down to you as the client but under specifying your needs will lead to frequent supply trips if you try to demand more than the contracted figure.
> ...


:goodpost:

Just a couple of points; 

The licence of occupation could also be "second" occupation - as in, someone may have lived there before. The licence of first occupation is only issued to new builds or to properties that have never been occupied.

Electrical installations can still be 3.3 kW although I wouldn't recommend anything that low.


Whilst using a British builder initially sounds the best option, in my opinion it rarely is. Many Brit builders don't know the regulations here and, more importantly, are NOT qualified to carry out specific work.

For example, as mentioned, you MUST have a qualified electrician to sign off any electrical work - and, generally, they won't sign off someone elses work.
You will also need a boletin for the plumbing work so that you can contract for a water supply.

By-the-way, any outstanding bills SHOULD be with the previous contract owner - you are NOT liable for these! People will try and tell you otherwise but I have proved that this is simply not the case.


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## dixiedo (Oct 6, 2014)

*Electric Meter*

Many thanks to everone for all the very helpfull info. 
The meter is defo missing but the electic is on. I do not received bills for electric only for the water. It looks like the electric cable comes down from the pylon, which is on my land, then underground through the wall to where the meter should be. The house should not be a first occupation as i was told that in it's long life it has been a school and a bakery.
I will try to find a spanish sparky that can issue the required certificate, but by the sounds of things i may have to have it rewired again unless he will ok the work already done.


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## whitenoiz (Sep 18, 2012)

This may be a little off thread but its relevant I think in terms of bureaucracy especially when dealing with Endesa and Town Hall funcionarios...

*snikpoh..* Thanks but your comment about the Licence of First Occupation is possibly arguable; at least was in our case. 

Our little town house had definitely been previously occupied for around 50 years, prior to us buying it, although it had stood empty for some years. We added a two storey extention to give us a revamped kitchen and bathroom downstairs and a second bedroom upstairs all in accordance with the original proposal submitted for planning permission. 

For various money related reasons we effectively sacked our Brit builder... he had severely overspent on another project he was working on simultaneously and was diverting our funds to complete and to correct some monumental c*ck-ups he had made on the other job. (The phrase couldn't organise a p*ss-up in a brewery comes to mind...) 

He was supposed to have organised all of the documentation but, in the event, beyond submitting the planning document to the Town Hall he had done nothing although at some point he had arranged for an electricity contract in our name and a meter was duly installed. 

Shortly thereafter, the meter blew up and burned out and was removed by Endesa who installed a temporary bridging shunt pending the fitment of a replacement. 

For reasons best known to themselves and despite our requests for a new meter it wasnt until two years later that an eagle eyed meter reader realised that we didnt have one and he reported us... I should point out that many of the meter readers commented on the lack of a meter and we asked time after time for a new one to be fitted but nothing ever happened.

In the two years we had been without a meter all we ever paid was the Standing Charge plus tax As a result of this action, Endesa finally installed a replacement meter and sent us a bill for appox 2500 Euros for our assumed and estimated consumption over the two year period. We paid. 

Fast forward one year and we had a letter from Endesa to tell us that our building supply contract would be terminated forthwith. This was in fact the first time we had been told that we were on a builders supply. 

In the meantime electricity installation regulations had been changed and before we could set up a regular domestic contract we would have to have the installation inspected and brought up to these revised standards. This cost us another 1000 Euros but we got the bolletion. It was at this point that Endesa stated the necessity for a licence of first occupation... 

I took all of the letters and documentation to our town hall to discuss the situation with the Town Hall Architect. Then we discovered that although the planning permission document had been submitted and approved, our now long gone Brit builder had never paid the requisite fees... more exoense. 

The town hall confirmed that a Licence of First Occupation ws required and that a copy of this document would be needed by Endesa before they would issue a new contract. We would need to go to a tech architect and get him to sign off the building work... another 500 euros. 

We eventually got it all sorted out but not before Endesa removed the temporary bridging shunt and left us without electricity in January. Another trip to the town hall and another chat with our leccy; he was handling the application for our new contract on our behalf. He contacted Endesa... their response was to allow hiim to fit a temporary bridging shunt pending the issue of the new contract. 

The new contract was issued a week later and Endesa finally accepted the Bolletin and the First Occupation licence, they again removed the bridge and fitted a meter... legal at last!

I would hazard a guess that perhaps the requirement for Licence of First Occupation is dependent upon the extent of the owrk carried out during the reformation or renovation of the property in question. Certainly in our case the main original structure of the property was unchanged; the two storey extention replaced a lean-to structure comprising a tiny kitchen and a bathroom that was falling down anyway! 

Suffice to say that under no circumstances would I ever employ a Brit 'builder' again, no matter how highly recommended he may be. The guy we used had even featured in Channel 5's 'Property Development Under the Sun' TV programme... the guy I turn to these days is a Spanish chap who regularly works on Barcelona's famous Gaudi's Sagrada Familia.


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

It's probably not important then @whitenoiz.

The copies I have in front of me are all second occupation. One of the properties was converted from a shop to a piso which involved completely rebuilding it.

Different in different areas?


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## VFR (Dec 23, 2009)

dixiedo said:


> Many thanks to everone for all the very helpfull info.
> The meter is defo missing but the electic is on. I do not received bills for electric only for the water. It looks like the electric cable comes down from the pylon, which is on my land, then underground through the wall to where the meter should be. The house should not be a first occupation as i was told that in it's long life it has been a school and a bakery.
> I will try to find a spanish sparky that can issue the required certificate, but by the sounds of things i may have to have it rewired again unless he will ok the work already done.


Your meter could well be at a leccy box on the next property (or so) as this was often the case years ago ............ go and look through the windows, 2 meters = bingo.
Just find a local registered electrician who is authorised to check & issue (for a price ) a certificate "if needed". Yes it may just be a case of changing the bill payers name when you find the box.


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

VFR said:


> Your meter could well be at a leccy box on the next property (or so) as this was often the case years ago ............ go and look through the windows, 2 meters = bingo.
> Just find a local registered electrician who is authorised to check & issue (for a price ) a certificate "if needed". Yes it may just be a case of changing the bill payers name when you find the box.


You could well be correct.

'simply changing the bill payers name' will require a bolletin and a licence of occupation though!


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## VFR (Dec 23, 2009)

snikpoh said:


> You could well be correct.
> 
> 'simply changing the bill payers name' will require a bolletin and a licence of occupation though!


Never did when we moved here, or to our neighbours (was a few years back mind)


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

VFR said:


> Never did when we moved here, or to our neighbours (was a few years back mind)


OK - different areas different rules.

'round here that's certainly the case - I've had to help loads of people with the process (last one just last week).

Edit: Do you mean changing bank account or the contract details?


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

snikpoh said:


> You could well be correct.
> 
> 'simply changing the bill payers name' will require a bolletin and a licence of occupation though!


It would to change the contract (although I wasn't asked for a licence of occupation when I changed mine two years ago, just a boletin and the escritura) but not necessarily just to change the name and bank account details for paying the bills. When I bought my house my lawyer arranged for the bills to be put in my name, but the contract stayed in the name of the previous owner. It took me a while to realise that, and just about everybody I know was in the same position. Several people over the years have insisted to me that it was their name on the contract, until I looked at their bills and pointed out the details in the top right hand corner under Titular was somebody quite different. They tend not to change the contract because that involves extra expense in obtaining the boletin (and having work done where required in order to meet up to date standards) whereas just changing the billing details doesn't.

If the OP does need to get the supply reconnected then I'm sure you're right, though, because that will require a new contract.


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

I would strongly advise against this practice though.

If you subsequently want to increase the potencia, then you MUST have the contract owners written permission.

Also, as was the case for me on one of my properties, if you want the meter removed, again you need written consent from the contract owner. Until then, you can do nothing. In my case, it was suspected that the owner had died many years ago and I was still told to get his signature (doh!!!) or to get proof that he had died!! 

Failing that they told me to stop paying and eventually it would be cut off - so who's bill is it now?


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

snikpoh said:


> I would strongly advise against this practice though.
> 
> If you subsequently want to increase the potencia, then you MUST have the contract owners written permission.
> 
> ...


Oh, I quite agree with you, that's why I wanted to change mine. But many people seem to want to take the "let sleeping dogs lie" line and don't want to pay out if they think they don't absolutely have to.

I've mentioned before my friend who inherited a house from her brother - the name on the contract in that case was somebody I'd never heard of, it could have been the person he bought the house from or someone even further back than that. In any event, when her bank was taken over and they messed up transferring her direct debit to the new one, she was stuck and then HAD to get it changed. 

Incidentally, that was in April this year and she wasn't asked for a licence of occupation either, although it might well have been different if the supply had been disconnected and she was applying for a new meter to be installed, I suppose.


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## VFR (Dec 23, 2009)

snikpoh said:


> OK - different areas different rules.
> 
> 'round here that's certainly the case - I've had to help loads of people with the process (last one just last week).
> 
> Edit: Do you mean changing bank account or the contract details?


Well at first we used our new bank account but the bill kept arriving in the previous owners name, so after keep telling Iberdrola to change names and them not doing it we then asked the local gestor to contact them .............. week or so they changed it.

Of course we were as green as grass & sites like this were not arround to ask/assist (well I never knew if they were)

You know issue like this are a bit like cars in some ways.
(Q) Car will not start, turns over but thats it.
(A) Need to visit the main dealer as it will likely need a new ECU.
(?) No check simple things first, has it fuel ?, is the fuel getting etc etc., of course it may well be the ECU but check the simple (cheap) things first.


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## Madliz (Feb 4, 2011)

As a widow I had to change all the utilities into my name. Electricity, phone and gas were all simple and from memory were even done over the phone. Only the water company was a pig - over €100 for the privilege and copious form-filling (that explained why the contract was still in the name of the previous owner from 1994!).
I did need a boletín to change the potencia, but not to change the titular.


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

Madliz said:


> I did need a boletín to change the potencia, but not to change the titular.


Obviously another instance of different practices in different areas - when I changed my electricity contract into my name (but didn't change the potencia) I did have to provide a boletin, but wasn't charged anything by Endesa.

My friend who changed hers in April, and did increase the potencia, also had to provide a boletin and pay around €150 as well.

She was charged €115 to put the water contract into her name, too.


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## villamarre (Oct 19, 2012)

Be very wary of solar as its a big problem in spain now,i was considering it last year but when i looked into it its a no no until they change the law,massive fines if you give the electricity away free to supplier(no feed in tariffs here) and you have to pay a toll if you have it!!!!
coincidentally endesa engineers were at our house last week looking for a network fault which i suspect is our neighbour who has panels.


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

villamarre said:


> Be very wary of solar as its a big problem in spain now,i was considering it last year but when i looked into it its a no no until they change the law,massive fines if you give the electricity away free to supplier(no feed in tariffs here) and you have to pay a toll if you have it!!!!
> coincidentally endesa engineers were at our house last week looking for a network fault which i suspect is our neighbour who has panels.




This was a proposal last year and was rejected - it is not law (yet).

There is also no way to 'feed the grid' - Spain doesn't allow it.


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