# Seven (YES 7) Years for "dropping" The Koran



## Andy Capp (Oct 5, 2008)

Admittedly in Qatar not UAE, and reading between the lines this Irish woman went into the mosque in the airport dressed "inappropriately" (she probably had a t shirt and shorts on) and "threw the book to the ground" because she was miffed that workers were resting (sleeping) in the mosque. I wonder whether she had one too many on the plane?

Seems weird behaviour to me, but come on 7 years????? People get less than that for murder in Qatar! 

Interesting comments


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## Elphaba (Jan 24, 2008)

I have had to delete the link, but this is the story here:

Gulf Times ? Qatar?s top-selling English daily newspaper - Qatar

Please feel free to C&P some of the comments made though.

Frankly I think it's ridiculous. I can see why some might be offended, but why isn't their faith secure enough to deal with it?

-


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## Andy Capp (Oct 5, 2008)

Elphaba said:


> I have had to delete the link, but this is the story here:
> 
> Gulf Times ? Qatar?s top-selling English daily newspaper - Qatar
> 
> ...


I thought you would, the Gulf news Link is still there though under "Qatar".

Notable quotes (copy and pasted) are as follows...



> Olive said
> So let me get this straight....If I torture and murder my maid I can get off in 3 years, but I throw a copy of the Quran I get 7......Am I sensing anything wrong with peoples priorities here?





> Happy Happy said
> ....Having her expelled out of the country would've been more than sufficient, for deliberately stepping into a house of God, in contempt.





> Alumnar said
> Would she have received the same sentence if she had 'dropped' the Bible 'by mistake'???


and finally the voice of reason...



> arshad1940 said
> if i was there i will shoot her to death.





Islam is the only world-religion that implies in its scriptures that it is ever permissible (or even encouraged) to lie. In his Sira, Muhammad authorised lying to improve the chances of successful assassinations, for example in the case of Shaaban Ibn Khalid al-Hazly and Bin Kaab

Muhammad said: "Lying is wrong, except in three things: the lie of a man to his wife to make her content with him; a lie to an enemy, for war is deception; or a lie to settle trouble between people" [Ahmad, 6.459. H]

So that means under Islam you can spin it at the courts and lie because that would settle the trouble - well it would settle you as the accuser's trouble, but not the poor accused. 

When I read things like this it makes me think of the JBR kiss case and many others.


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## pamela0810 (Apr 5, 2010)

What a hypocritical society we live in. Unbelievable!!! 
Granted the Quran is a book of God, but it is still a book. Aren't the messages in the Quran more important than the book itself. So, placing such emphasis and actually worshipping the book would then constitue Idol Worship which is Haraam, isn't it?
I feel for the lady. 7 years is just too much!


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## Nomerci (Apr 28, 2010)

Andy, so you are on QL. And maybe next time you will not copy and paste the user names. Unless of course you had permission from the users. Did you?


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## gerrit (Jul 15, 2008)

Andy, what has the Islamic text about lying to do with this?

Also, remember that this book was written 1400 years ago. Basically it says lying is permitted if it avoids relationship/marriage problems, if it can avoid a war, or if can solve a conflict". I would say that makes a lot of sense but can indeed be twisted. The accused can also twist his version of the facts in front of a court if you wish so. People need to read these books (not just the Quran but all of these religious books) knowing that times have changed and that they have to be interpretated in the perspective of the timeframe they were written in.

The Bible has a passages in which one was asked to sacrifice his son on (if I recall correctly) Mount Sinai. Does this mean the Bible encourages murder? Sodom and Gomorrah were wiped off the map in a very cruel way ; does this mean the Bible encourages violence? 

To quote a Muslim person I know: "people have to reinterpretate the book in its modern timeframe, not take things literally"


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## sandypool (Sep 12, 2009)

I have to say the sentence is appalling and completely over the top.

If someone comes to my home and offends me I tell them to bog off I don't lock them in the Study for 7 years before sending them home.

Completely over the top.

Just such a shame that it reflects so poorly upon the GCC as a whole, if handled more reasonably it wouldn't give all the trashy red top's back home reason to bleat about a place which on the whole is terribly misunderstood and quite a fun place to live for the most part.

(As a PS may I ask why the link had to be deleted? as it is a rule I may brake in the future if I didn't ask why it was a no no)


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## Jynxgirl (Nov 27, 2009)

Alot seems to be missing from the story. 

Why did she go in to the mosque? Was she an expat or was she on vacation? Was she associated with these women (boss) or had no relationship to them? And did they know she was not in country when they issued this for show or meant it as an actual jail sentence? 

People around these parts seem to do a whole lot just for show. 

It was a competing forum.


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## Andy Capp (Oct 5, 2008)

Nomerci said:


> Andy, so you are on QL. And maybe next time you will not copy and paste the user names. Unless of course you had permission from the users. Did you?


I'm sure you, as a moderator, could remove them.....

But let's face it, comments on websites are in the free realm, all the cut and pastes that go on from on-line newspapers/wikipedia etc. etc. and I'm quite sure that the people on QL that "quote" entire news clippings get the written permission from the original author don't they, or even give credit to the authors name. Nope, it just doesn't happen. 

As for me being a contributor? Why would I, I've never been to Qatar never mind be in a position to help people there. If I was, I'd have used this mo****r...


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## Gavtek (Aug 23, 2009)

Jynxgirl said:


> It was a competing forum.


I'm not sure exactly what a competing forum is?

Surely the purposes of these types of forums is to provide information and to help people?

Why would there be a need for competition between them? Is this forum a money making exercise for the owner?

Makes no sense to me :confused2:


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## thedevil007 (Jun 6, 2010)

I say 7 years too less.......... Why in the first place should one go disrespecting one's religion or culture????

If she had anything against someone(probably some muslim person), then she should go ahead take out her anger on tat person, not on the community.


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## Guest (Jun 10, 2010)

thedevil007 said:


> I say 7 years too less.......... Why in the first place should one go disrespecting one's religion or culture????
> 
> If she had anything against someone(probably some muslim person), then she should go ahead take out her anger on tat person, not on the community.


Excuse me???? Go ahead and take our her anger??? What exactly is your point here?


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## Gavtek (Aug 23, 2009)

thedevil007 said:


> Why in the first place should one go disrespecting one's religion


Completely agree.

Now, about your choice of username....


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## thedevil007 (Jun 6, 2010)

nola said:


> Excuse me???? Go ahead and take our her anger??? What exactly is your point here?


"According to the testimony of a group of female cleaning workers, the accused entered the mosque “wearing indecent cloth”, took hold of a copy of the holy book and threw it on the floor after some time."

My point is why did she hav to go against the islamic laws?? She could had some hatred towards some muslim person on which she took out her anger here or any other possible reason. I being a muslim hav respect for all religions, as I have one thing in mind, we are all humans n created by the same god.....only our paths are different. Though most of the teachings in all books are also quite similar.

If this lady did want to have a look wats inside the Quarn, she could had done so from any bookshop, not compulsory to go into a mosque. Secondly since she was in Qatar, a islamic country, i'm sure she would b very well aware tat no one enters with indecent clothes, not even men.


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## thedevil007 (Jun 6, 2010)

Gavtek said:


> Completely agree.
> 
> Now, about your choice of username....


n for my nick........no one is a saint in this planet


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## Guest (Jun 10, 2010)

thedevil007 said:


> "According to the testimony of a group of female cleaning workers, the accused entered the mosque “wearing indecent cloth”, took hold of a copy of the holy book and threw it on the floor after some time."
> 
> My point is why did she hav to go against the islamic laws?? She could had some hatred towards some muslim person on which she took out her anger here or any other possible reason. I being a muslim hav respect for all religions, as I have one thing in mind, we are all humans n created by the same god.....only our paths are different. Though most of the teachings in all books are also quite similar.
> 
> If this lady did want to have a look wats inside the Quarn, she could had done so from any bookshop, not compulsory to go into a mosque. Secondly since she was in Qatar, a islamic country, i'm sure she would b very well aware tat no one enters with indecent clothes, not even men.


I am not condoning what she did. I think it was totally disrespectful. I was just wondering why you would say she should "go ahead and take out her anger" on one person. That implies violence, which is wrong too. Maybe you didn't mean that...


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

nola said:


> I am not condoning what she did. I think it was totally disrespectful. I was just wondering why you would say she should "go ahead and take out her anger" on one person. That implies violence, which is wrong too. Maybe you didn't mean that...



It implies that she should go to the source of her irritation rather than a book, she's more likely to get some resolve that way!

Jo xx


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## Elphaba (Jan 24, 2008)

Gavtek said:


> I'm not sure exactly what a competing forum is?
> 
> Surely the purposes of these types of forums is to provide information and to help people?
> 
> ...


This forum is a business, not a charity. It costs money and takes a lot of time to run a site like this and most are run as businesses.

Links to other forums are not permitted, per forum rules.

-


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## Felixtoo2 (Jan 16, 2009)

Whilst I do not condone the lady`s actions the sentence passed is totally disproportionate and by any standards completely ridiculous. That there are people on here that believe that its reasonable is very disturbing.


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## Andy Capp (Oct 5, 2008)

Felixtoo2 said:


> Whilst I do not condone the lady`s actions the sentence passed is totally disproportionate and by any standards completely ridiculous. That there are people on here that believe that its reasonable is very disturbing.


I totally agree, did you notice that one arshad1940 in Qatar (on my second post) stated that he would kill the woman had he seen her?


> arshad1940 said if i was there i will shoot her to death


And with "people" (although animals or less would be more appropriate) like that are you really surprised that so many are killed in the name of some omnipotent being?

A little tolerance goes a long way.


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## Felixtoo2 (Jan 16, 2009)

It`s not just in this part of the world that people seem to be blinded by their religion and are unable to think outside the box, or should that be book!! The real problem here is that the state and justice system is also blind.
(Did I just say "justice system" on a middle east forum? Must be time for afternoon medication!)


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Felixtoo2 said:


> It`s not just in this part of the world that people seem to be blinded by their religion and are unable to think outside the box, or should that be book!! The real problem here is that the state and justice system is also blind.
> (Did I just say "justice system" on a middle east forum? Must be time for afternoon medication!)



While I agree with you, the religious beliefs in the middle east are theirs and as long as they keep them in their land, then its up to them. Its not for the west to interfere and vice versa. 

I personally am not interested in religion, but I respect others who live by it if they need to! Yes throwing a book on the floor during a tantrum is a dumb thing to do, especially when in a country that worships that book, but thats the point. The country finds it offensive and has punishments for that kind of behaviour. What is that saying???? ..... "If you dont wanna do the time, then dont commit the crime" But yeah, 7 years is a little accessive by western standards, I dont know how it compares to other crimes in the middle east

Jo xxxx


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## Felixtoo2 (Jan 16, 2009)

In as far as it compares to other crimes in this region I`d either have to kill a couple of expats or have 0.0000000001mg of sensory enhancing substances in my pocke to beat seven years.
Could be a new thread, which expat would you ............... lol


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## pamela0810 (Apr 5, 2010)

M0r0 said:


> Andy, you may notice that I've just signed up to reply to your post.
> 
> You Said:
> 
> ...



I'd just like to know, hypothetically speaking....if you got into an argument with a few strangers in a foreign country and ended up doing something that is offensive to the religion and people of that particular country. Would you be ok with being jailed in that country for 7 years away from your family?


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## M0r0 (Jun 12, 2010)

pamela0810 said:


> I'd just like to know, hypothetically speaking....if you got into an argument with a few strangers in a foreign country and ended up doing something that is offensive to the religion and people of that particular country. Would you be ok with being jailed in that country for 7 years away from your family?


Again, i'm not the right person to evaluate the sentence... but as i said she did something offensive and she got a punishment.

back to your hypothetically question...if I'm in a foreign country i won't get my self involved in such arguments because it is sensitive and it creates hate .. i do respect the place/country i am in.

calling something(offensive) "as u mentioned" means that there should be a punishment ...regardless if it is just a fine or jail or whatever....


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## pamela0810 (Apr 5, 2010)

M0r0 said:


> Again, i'm not the right person to evaluate the sentence... but as i said she did something offensive and she got a punishment.
> 
> back to your hypothetically question...if I'm in a foreign country i won't get my self involved in such arguments because it is sensitive and it creates hate .. i do respect the place/country i am in.
> 
> calling something(offensive) "as u mentioned" means that there should be a punishment ...regardless if it is just a fine or jail or whatever....


That doesn't answer my question. I would like to know if you would be ok with spending 7 years away from your family in a foreing country just for getting into an argument and doing something offensive. It's one thing being slapped with a fine and another thing to put a person in jail for 7 years.


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## M0r0 (Jun 12, 2010)

Indeed no one will be happy to stay even an hour in jail for saying or doing something offensive.
But before i land in any country i'd read about the culutre of the folks there, if i saw that it is offensive to talk about thier smell, the way they dress or thier religion.
if u just called someone by his color ...u are a racist and everyone will say that u deserve any punishment....why only it is easy and simple when it comes to religions?


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## Andy Capp (Oct 5, 2008)

M0r0 said:


> Andy, you may notice that I've just signed up to reply to your post.
> 
> You Said:
> 
> ...


Wrong am I? Don't know what I'm talking about?

Try

Lying for Islam (taqiyya) - WikiIslam

and

Are muslim Compelled to lie vs allowed to lie:? - Yahoo! Answers

For the statements

And how can you possibly say what muhammed meant? I'm sure there must be some law against such utterances, is it not haram?

What we are saying is that right minded countries and people do NOT put people in jail for any stretch of time for dropping a book. If you want to tell me that that is just then be my guest.

Religion is the opiate of the people - never a truer phrase said.


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## pamela0810 (Apr 5, 2010)

M0r0 said:


> Indeed no one will be happy to stay even an hour in jail for saying or doing something offensive.
> But before i land in any country i'd read about the culutre of the folks there, if i saw that it is offensive to talk about thier smell, the way they dress or thier religion.
> if u just called someone by his color ...u are a racist and everyone will say that u deserve any punishment....why only it is easy and simple when it comes to religions?


Nothing is easy and simple when it comes to religion. I got my answer. Thank you.


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## LiverpoolMan (Jun 2, 2010)

I dont think Andy that you can claim you know what you are talking about when as sources you use 'WikiIslam' and 'Yahoo answers'. I dont know you very well, so i assume you are joking by using sources a 5 year old could alter. I think any enducated person should know better than basing their knoweldge on yahoo answers.

In responce to Pamela, i dont think anyone would be happy, however the woman knew what she was doing, and she knew it would be offensive, but she was probably an arrogant ex pat who thought that she could get away with anything. i certainly dont agree with the ridiculous lenght of the sentence, however i dont agree with the laws of many countries including my own here in england. This being so, i try and respect and follow the law, and i cannot moan if i get punished when i break a law even if i dont agree with it, ESPECIALLY if this is a foreign coutnry where i am essentially a guest. I think this is obvious, no?


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## M0r0 (Jun 12, 2010)

Andy Capp said:


> Wrong am I? Don't know what I'm talking about?
> 
> Try
> 
> ...


Firstly.... the website u mentioned is just blocked in UAE, so i can smell some thing fishy about it.

Secondly...I'm not ready to argue with someone who use Yahoo Questions and answers as his utmost source of knowledge… lol.

You Said:-
And how can you possibly say what muhammed meant? I'm sure there must be some law against such utterances, is it not haram?

Nooo it is not Haram you can say the correct meaning if you are sure of it. it is haram to say what does Quran mean because it is obligatory to memorize it by heart,
another point to show how big is your knowledge when you say it is Haram to say what Mohamed (PBUH) meant while you wrote at the end of the phrase [Ahmad, 6.459. H]..did you try to think who is Ahmed? FYI Ahmed is the one who explained it.

I don't think anyone here was asked at the airport if he is a Muslim or even worships a tree so if you consider that as WRONG Minded country..so it is up to you...
Google are free and available mate. please be prepared with information next time.
There is no harm in respecting other's beliefs...and respecting the country you living in...
Again and again I'm not defending the sentence ….but she did something offensive and she deserves a punishment.


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## M0r0 (Jun 12, 2010)

LiverpoolMan said:


> I dont think Andy that you can claim you know what you are talking about when as sources you use 'WikiIslam' and 'Yahoo answers'. I dont know you very well, so i assume you are joking by using sources a 5 year old could alter. I think any enducated person should know better than basing their knoweldge on yahoo answers.
> 
> In responce to Pamela, i dont think anyone would be happy, however the woman knew what she was doing, and she knew it would be offensive, but she was probably an arrogant ex pat who thought that she could get away with anything. i certainly dont agree with the ridiculous lenght of the sentence, however i dont agree with the laws of many countries including my own here in england. This being so, i try and respect and follow the law, and i cannot moan if i get punished when i break a law even if i dont agree with it, ESPECIALLY if this is a foreign coutnry where i am essentially a guest. I think this is obvious, no?


i can add no more to that...
that is just what i'm trying to say...
well said LM..


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## Jynxgirl (Nov 27, 2009)

I keep in mind that this is very much a third world country (I know this happened in Qatar but could easily have been here) and that just avoiding anything religious related is best as common sense completely goes out the window in this country when its involved!


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

M0r0 said:


> You Said:-
> And how can you possibly say what muhammed meant?


Indeed, how can anyone??? So it boils down to mans interpretation, which can only be opinion based and not worth arguing over on this forum

Jo


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## M0r0 (Jun 12, 2010)

jojo said:


> Indeed, how can anyone??? So it boils down to mans interpretation, which can only be opinion based and not worth arguing over on this forum
> 
> Jo


Jojo,please mind "You Said" 
This question has been asked by him not me.
Anyways it doesn't boil down to mans interpretations or opinions as you said.
Actually, Hadeeth "what Mohamed (PBUH) said" is the explanation to Quran so there is a fixed source and no space for opinions here.
for example....Quran asked Muslims to pray five times a day....Hadeeth taught Muslims how to pray.

i always refrain of discussing such religious issues over forums "and you can read my posts on *****"..because it creates hate and i'm not that qualified person to answer each and every question..


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

M0r0 said:


> i can add no more to that...
> that is just what i'm trying to say...
> well said LM..


Well thats how you should have started on the forum M0r0! A much nicer way of putting it dont you think!???  Welcome anyway!

Jo x


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## dizzyizzy (Mar 30, 2008)

M0r0 said:


> i always refrain of discussing such religious issues over forums "and you can read my posts on *****"..because it creates hate and i'm not that qualified person to answer each and every question..


.. yet you admitted that you joined this forum with the specific intention of replying to this religion related thread and all your posts on this forum so far have been about religion??? :confused2:

Please accept other peoples points of view then...! I think we all agree on the fact that we all must respect the laws of the countries we are visiting or living at. But there is also space to admit that sometimes the penalties for breaking those laws could be perceived the the rest of the world or other individuals as exaggerated and over the top. Nothing wrong with admitting that. Laws are what they are, and opinions from others about those laws are also just that, opinions. I think a lot of the laws in the UAE, Mexico, USA, UK, etc. are ridiculous yet they exist and nothing I can do about it. 

I personally find most discussions about religion absolutely pointless as people will never agree as long as there is an ego involved, which of course will always be, and sometimes the best thing to do is to just agree to disagree. 

I think the woman who dropped the Quoran is arrogant and stupid.

I think the penalty the received is exaggerated and over the top.


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## Felixtoo2 (Jan 16, 2009)

Discusions about religion in this part of the world are indeed completely pointless for the simple reason that nobody can question the Quran and hence nobody can have their own opinion on their faith and simply have to tow the line.


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## M0r0 (Jun 12, 2010)

dizzyizzy said:


> .. yet you admitted that you joined this forum with the specific intention of replying to this religion related thread and all your posts on this forum so far have been about religion??? :confused2:
> 
> Please accept other peoples points of view then...! I think we all agree on the fact that we all must respect the laws of the countries we are visiting or living at. But there is also space to admit that sometimes the penalties for breaking those laws could be perceived the the rest of the world or other individuals as exaggerated and over the top. Nothing wrong with admitting that. Laws are what they are, and opinions from others about those laws are also just that, opinions. I think a lot of the laws in the UAE, Mexico, USA, UK, etc. are ridiculous yet they exist and nothing I can do about it.
> 
> ...


Hiii Dizzyizzy,
I came here with no intention at all, i'm not really into discussion forums, i'm only a member of one discussion forums in dubai and i think all of you know it.
a friend has just posted a thread today there talking about how she got banned in here for mentioning a website. so i came here to see what is going on here with no intention even to sign up, then i saw this thread and i decided to sign up just to correct what he was saying about Islam, he was so confident of what he was saying although it was completely wrong ,and that provoked me.. of course all the opinions are welcome and that is why we are on a discussion forum...but when you attack a religion with what you don't know and start spreading it.. that is not an opinion at all...
BTW if you are taking about freedom of speech, you should have considered my posts as an opinion too...

I second you about the lady and the punishment, it is a dumb thing to do and i think the sentence was according to their laws.

Good Night alllllll

any idea what is the result now? England or USA ...i wish England


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## sandypool (Sep 12, 2009)

haha the one thing more controversial than Religion - The World Cup.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

M0r0 said:


> any idea what is the result now? England or USA ...i wish England


I think I'd prefer to talk religion than football, I'll be glad when this wretched world cup thing is over - yawn!!!!!

Jo xxx


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## Elphaba (Jan 24, 2008)

M0r0 said:


> Jojo,please mind "You Said"
> This question has been asked by him not me.
> Anyways it doesn't boil down to mans interpretations or opinions as you said.
> Actually, Hadeeth "what Mohamed (PBUH) said" is the explanation to Quran so there is a fixed source and no space for opinions here.
> ...



This forum is a friendly place and everyone is entitled to an opinion provided they express it politely, show consideration and do not use it as a soapbox to rant about any religious or political views. You have your views on Islam, other people are perfecty entitled to disagree. If you are a true believer you should not be bothered by dissenters and attempting to force your views on others will simply turn more people away from your religious beliefs.

Joining a forum simply to argue is not constructive, in any way. Anyone may post here provided they follow the rules and behave in a mature manner. 

-


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## M0r0 (Jun 12, 2010)

Elphaba said:


> This forum is a friendly place and everyone is entitled to an opinion provided they express it politely, show consideration and do not use it as a soapbox to rant about any religious or political views. You have your views on Islam, other people are perfecty entitled to disagree. If you are a true believer you should not be bothered by dissenters and attempting to force your views on others will simply turn more people away from your religious beliefs.
> 
> Joining a forum simply to argue is not constructive, in any way. Anyone may post here provided they follow the rules and behave in a mature manner.
> 
> -


Could you please show us when and where I attempted to force my views on others?
Everyone is entitled for an opinion and that is what I am doing now.
There is a big difference between saying your opinion and between saying islam or christianity or history said that.....there is simply difference between a personal opinion and between spreading fake and wrong information about a religion or a race...hope you got what I mean!!!
I know the one who posted the thread is here before me and I know that on each forums the newbies should be on the hot seat for a while .lol I don't mind playing it but I don't have enough time to reply to each and every post here.again I said I came here by chance and I saw someone trying to spread fake and wrong info about a religion and I corrected him and I'm entitled for that.you may call it argument or non constructive or whatever.
I have done with talking here...thank you all


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## Elphaba (Jan 24, 2008)

M0r0 said:


> Could you please show us when and where I attempted to force my views on others?
> Everyone is entitled for an opinion and that is what I am doing now.
> There is a big difference between saying your opinion and between saying islam or christianity or history said that.....there is simply difference between a personal opinion and between spreading fake and wrong information about a religion or a race...hope you got what I mean!!!
> I know the one who posted the thread is here before me and I know that on each forums the newbies should be on the hot seat for a while .lol I don't mind playing it but I don't have enough time to reply to each and every post here.again I said I came here by chance and I saw someone trying to spread fake and wrong info about a religion and I corrected him and I'm entitled for that.you may call it argument or non constructive or whatever.
> I have done with talking here...thank you all



Stop trying to pick an argument. I am well aware that you have an agenda. We do not put new posters in the 'hotseat' on this forum. That is a nasty, childish thing to do to people.

No one is spreading anti-islamic information as your falsely claim. We do not allow such things here. We simply allow differences of opinion in the way that mature adults are capable of doing.

-


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## Elphaba (Jan 24, 2008)

As some people are clearly incapable of rational discussion, this thread has been closed.


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