# How to leave Spain (then try to come back)



## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

I am looking for information about validity of Permisos de Residencía Permanente but can’t find what I am looking for so I am hoping that someone here may have already investigated this:

I currently live in Madrid and have done since 2004. At first I had a tarjeta de residencia, valid for 5 years, which expired in 2009.

This of course was not renewed; instead I had to apply for the “green form” which I was given without any problem. This form does not have any expiry date (presumably because I am entitled to permanent residency due to the previous 5 year period completed) although it does not specifically say anything about “permanente” on the form.

Now, I want to temporarily leave Spain and need to find out what I should (both theoretically and practically) in order to be able to come back at some point in the medium term future.

It appears that I should cancel my residency if I leave Spain, but what problems will this cause me upon my return? I suppose that I would have to start again from scratch, jumping through the administrative hoops that are in place today with regards to health care and income. But what about the nearly 9 years of contributions that I have made into the system? Will that count for anything?

And what happens if I don’t cancel my residency? Just “disappear” for a bit… I suppose that it will cause a problem with the Declaración de la Renta because I won’t have any taxable income in Spain (except the rent on my flat), nor will I have an address (unless I change my padron to my own flat which is actually rented out and “pretend” to be living there), but then surely someone will ask why my kids aren’t in school….

Any advice gratefully received.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

I'd be interested to know that, cos I left Spain without cancelling my residencia 18 months ago. So as it stands, I have NIE, SS numbers and a green form. Also, while I lived there, I paid into the Spanish system by way of income tax. I'm planning to spend a few months back in Spain after christmas, so I'm not sure where I stand. Being a Spanish resident didnt affect anything when I returned to the UK 

Jo xxx


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## Clemmie00 (Jun 10, 2012)

jojo said:


> I'd be interested to know that, cos I left Spain without cancelling my residencia 18 months ago. So as it stands, I have NIE, SS numbers and a green form. Also, while I lived there, I paid into the Spanish system by way of income tax. I'm planning to spend a few months back in Spain after christmas, so I'm not sure where I stand. Being a Spanish resident didnt affect anything when I returned to the UK
> 
> Jo xxx


So it's not an issue for NHS entitlement or anything like that? I assume most official bodies in the UK won't know/care about the residencia in Spain once you're resident in the UK again...?


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Clemmie00 said:


> So it's not an issue for NHS entitlement or anything like that? I assume most official bodies in the UK won't know/care about the residencia in Spain once you're resident in the UK again...?


I dont know? My doctor in the UK knew we were moving to Spain but appeared to have kept me on their list and when I needed a doctor in Spain I just went - with my ss number! Back in England and I'm still with my surgery!!???


/jo xxx


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## gus-lopez (Jan 4, 2010)

There shouldn't be any problem as with permanent residency you are allowed to live/work outside of Spain for at least 2 years without any problems. there is no requirement to cancel your residency if yoiu are coming back. It wouldn't be a problem to get an assessor to sort the Renta out surely ? Even if it's a zero declaration.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Did I not read somewhere on the forum from one of our clued-up colleagues that if you are out of Spain for more than a certain length of time (did I read 12 months) your residencia is cancelled?


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

baldilocks said:


> Did I not read somewhere on the forum from one of our clued-up colleagues that if you are out of Spain for more than a certain length of time (did I read 12 months) your residencia is cancelled?



But how would they know??

Jo xxx


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## agua642 (May 24, 2009)

Ok good subject.. I looked into all this dilemma myself a while ago, similar situation, regarding residencia yes u can leave for 2 years if u need to do a declaration do a zero one, you can also do a zero declaration whilst living in Spain! Main thing is to do one if possible, however if u are earning below a certain amount it might not be necessary.
Re contributions : you paid into system and the years you paid go towards pension and any other claims you need to make in Spain. 
I inquired in INSS offices in Denia as this was also my concern! I've also got permanent residencia been in Spain 28 years, baja your Padron, and if u are unsure about tax declaration you could also go Baja in Hacienda permanently whilst away.. hope this Info is helpful.. I won't worry to much about having to renew residencia, worry if & when you return!! I take it you are British or from another EU country.


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## thrax (Nov 13, 2008)

Yes this is true but as JoJo pointed out, how would they know????


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## agua642 (May 24, 2009)

They wouldn't know it's only your word against there's, they only know what you tell them and to be honest personally I don't think it's a crime as such! No one will ask ..


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

How will they know?

I imagine that when you stop contributing to the SS system (and aren’t claiming from it either) they’ll get fairly suspicious.

After all, what will appear on the Vida Laboral during this period?

I have already found info on here which indicates that I will find it very difficult to voluntarily pay into the Spanish SS system while working abroad, so I plan to make voluntary contributions to the British system, I am English so have an NI number.

I plan to be out of Spain (and out of the EU) for more than two years (waiting for the economic storm to pass over!), but it does seem strange to think that I might lose my rights of residence in a country where I own a home (well, the bank owns it really, but they haven’t got the right to auction it off just yet!).

Being a home owner (which is rented out) I expect to have to do a Declaración de la Renta, so I probably will have to get some professional advice on that front anyway.


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## agua642 (May 24, 2009)

Sounds like you gave a solid plan  if you particularly want to pay into S.S voluntary payment it can be organised by popping into INSS office , but why bother when you can pay voluntary contributions in UK and a lot less to pay then in Spain!!! 
Leaving Spain for a few years sounds like a good idea, I've thought about it many a times.. where u going any where nice? Pm if you prefer


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

Yes, the plan is fairly well advanced, but the admin is getting to be a nightmare !

If all goes to plan I'll be going to Bangkok.

I'm not sure about the contributions to be honest, I might just reactivate an old private pension fund I had when I was in the UK and pay into that. Of course in Thailand I will have to have a private medical insurance.

The big "problem" is that I can't just stop everything here. I have the flat and will need to store some personal belongings too, so my bank accounts here will have to remain active.

I certainly hope to come back to Madrid at some point.


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

An update to this for anyone who is interested:

Yesterday we went to an oficina de extranjería to get the green paper for my 1 year old son (he has a UK passport but we hadn't got his Spanish papers sorted and we wanted them to be in order before we leave).

Interestingly, instead of an A4 sized sheet of paper, which I and the rest of my family have, he was issued with a credit card sized certificate.

Also we were told that there was actually no obligation to have this, nor carry it, the exact words were "it's a right, not an obligation" which I thought was strange, especially given that as far as I am aware there is no law which obliges him to have a passport either.

Anyway, the big suprise came when we were told that our green papers issued in 2009 after having lived 5 years in Spain, are NOT permanent. They have no expiry date on them and we had just assumed that we never needed to do anything more with them, but the woman who attended us said that we should apply for permanent residency (which we thought we already had!) because the green forms are only valid for 10 years.

We mentioned that we "might" leave Spain soon and were worried about coming back in to which we were told that after 18 months of not residing in Spain even permanent residency is automatically cancelled. However, she also confirmed that Hacienda do not share data with Extranjería, so even if we do leave, her advice was simply "don't tell us, and we'll never know"!


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Overandout said:


> An update to this for anyone who is interested:
> 
> Yesterday we went to an oficina de extranjería to get the green paper for my 1 year old son (he has a UK passport but we hadn't got his Spanish papers sorted and we wanted them to be in order before we leave).
> 
> ...


yes, a lot of offices are issuing cards now & have been since early last year

& yes, as an EU citizen you do have the 'right' to live here - & there's no real obligation to register since they can't kick you out

the thing is though, it's getting more difficult to do anything without that bit of green paper/card.......


in many if not most areas now you can't register for school/on the padrón/for healthcare/etc. without it

not to mention that banking is cheaper for residents - so you need that green paper/card for that too

& also not forgetting the possibly 1000s of people who wish they'd registered before last April but 'couldn't see the point' - they'd now be getting free state healthcare


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## wiggytheone (Dec 3, 2012)

Overandout said:


> I am looking for information about validity of Permisos de Residencía Permanente but can’t find what I am looking for so I am hoping that someone here may have already investigated this:
> 
> I currently live in Madrid and have done since 2004. At first I had a tarjeta de residencia, valid for 5 years, which expired in 2009.
> 
> ...


The best advice I think is dont try to do anything dodgy, keep everything legal then you will have no problems. I am sure there are Residents of Spain living temporally all over the world, so if you are a true resident then go either to seek advice from a solicitor or go to your Ayuntamiento, Social Security Offices and Tax office and they will be glad to help you I'm sure. By doing things underhand and if you get away with it only makes things more difficult for the rest of us.


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

Overandout said:


> ...
> 
> Anyway, the big suprise came when we were told that our green papers issued in 2009 after having lived 5 years in Spain, are NOT permanent. They have no expiry date on them and we had just assumed that we never needed to do anything more with them, but the woman who attended us said that we should apply for permanent residency (which we thought we already had!) because the green forms are only valid for 10 years.
> 
> ...


But what about these points that were raised?

Our residencias don't mention 'permanent' either despite us having checked this box when we first applied (I know because I took a copy) but I did not know that they expired!

Rightly or wrongly, we are just keeping our heads down and doing nothing about it. We've been here over 5 years and so assume that if we wished to make the residencias permanent then we could but (a) why should we bother and (b) is it automatic or would we have to go through the 'proof of income' rigmarole?


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

Well, we had been lead to believe that we had permanent residency too.

I clearly remember the guy filling out the forms and saying to us that as we had been 5 years in Spain already that this was all we'd ever have to do....

According to the woman the other day it had been processed incorrectly, but had we not had to go to register our second son we'd never have found out that there was an expiry....

It really is all a bit "hit and miss".


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