# Two days to decide - what should I see / do?



## etaggel (Oct 8, 2017)

Hi,

I've been given the opportunity to relocate to Dubai and am flying out this week (Monday - Friday) to complete the final interview and to get a feel for the city. If successful, I would be relocating my family (wife + two primary age children) from London.

I'm going to have two full days free to explore the city and get a feel of whether we'd be happy living there. I'm looking for some advice on what I should see / where I should go to get a feel for what it's like living there. E.g. housing, schools etc. This isn't really a holiday, so the usual tourist traps can wait for another trip. The information I gather on this trip will heavily influence my decision to relocate (assuming finalising the job offer goes to plan). 

The job would be based near the airport, and having read some of the other threads in the forum I figure Jumeirah and Arabian Ranches seem like good candidates to have a look around. I don't need to make any final decisions on this trip as I'd have a month or two before my family, but I'd like to get enough feel to know whether it would be viable or not for us.

I've already arranged to visit Jumeirah Primary School, and am waiting to hear back from another. In terms of visiting some houses - are agents generally ok with people in my position, or are they only willing to entertain people who already have their resident's visa?

If anyone is free and fancies a coffee or beer, then it'd be great to hear some first hand opinions and advice on living in Dubai with a young family.

Thanks!
Lyndon


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## DXBGooner (Sep 13, 2017)

It really does depend on what you're looking for, with two young kids I'd be looking at the areas you mentioned as I'm sure you wouldn't want to be in a flat.

I've not got kids so my views probably not as valid as others but aside from schools etc I'd be checking out places near my work (assuming you're not in a stand alone building away from everyone else) and also routes to/from home - traffic can be terrible.

I'd be checking outdoor space near where you looking for living for the kids. Does your wife drive? Mine doesn't so I wanted to check out walking distance to Metro (and the Metro itself). 

Aside from the kids what do you do in your spare time?

What industry are you in?


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## etaggel (Oct 8, 2017)

DXBGooner said:


> It really does depend on what you're looking for, with two young kids I'd be looking at the areas you mentioned as I'm sure you wouldn't want to be in a flat.
> 
> I've not got kids so my views probably not as valid as others but aside from schools etc I'd be checking out places near my work (assuming you're not in a stand alone building away from everyone else) and also routes to/from home - traffic can be terrible.
> 
> ...


Thanks. Yes, I'd anticipate we'd want a villa rather than an apartment. Good suggestion to see what the traffic is like, I can probably check that the interview day.

I'm generally in IT, but this role is in aviation. 

The kids take up most of my time, but other than that I enjoy running (I'm told Dubai isn't very pedestrian friendly, so I assume that isn't particularly feasible there especially with the heat?). I do a fair bit of first aid voluntary work, and have spent far too much time + money automating my home here in London.


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## DXBGooner (Sep 13, 2017)

Running wise I'm not an expert but there are parks etc and walkways, the city itself is really trying to push a healthier lifestyle. For example there are looking to host a version of the JP Morgan Challenge/city run that goes on in London. 

I'd tell the estate agents you are moving over shortly rather than in final stages by the way, it's a very competitve market and they live on comission so won't be as helpful if they think they won't get a comission in a few weeks time!


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## twowheelsgood (Feb 21, 2013)

DXBGooner said:


> as I'm sure you wouldn't want to be in a flat.


Plenty of people with families live in apartments.

Its significantly cheaper to live in a decent apartment and a lot come with just as good facilities as villa areas.


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## UKMS (Jan 9, 2017)

I’d be inclined to get as firm as you can on the school and then research your housing within a reasonable school run ...... there will be nothing worse than struggling in traffic on a horrendous school run. 

If you are thinking about Arabian Ranches 1 or 2, there are a lot of really nice new properties (Villas) just been released on to the market in AR2 .... prices are very competitive because of the volume available. There are schools here as well. 

We found some agents (mostly young kids chasing a fast pound note) won’t be interested if they know your not ready to rent, the decent ones will invest a little time in you as they will see it as potential business when you do move. 

You’ve done the best thing spending some time here .... we were able to fly over for some long weekends and just spent time doing viewings and getting a feel for different communities, it helped a lot !


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## VIP 8 (Aug 30, 2017)

I hope you will update this thread to let us know how the week goes.


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## Kostik3000 (Jul 10, 2017)

Hi Lyndon,

I have recently moved to Dubai with family and 4 years old daughter from London (ok, Essex essentially).

Happy to meet if you are free.

I am regretting the move, to be honest, so I could be a bit bias, hehe. Especially, as I've just back from one week trip to London. London is 10 times better than Dubai and I will argue you to consider everything very well, from schooling, which are a bit shocking in Dubai to your weekly activities as it's a big change to what you might be doing in London.

Thanks


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## DXBGooner (Sep 13, 2017)

Kostik3000 said:


> Hi Lyndon,
> 
> I have recently moved to Dubai with family and 4 years old daughter from London (ok, Essex essentially).
> 
> ...


If it's not too personal would be interested in hearing what you're struggling with? Having moved out from London (originally from Essex) in July I've found it okay although the job itself has been a let down. 

Unfortunately can't go back to London for a while due to the tax implications of moving back within a tax year and half my income from out here going to HMRC!


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## ameerataher (Oct 4, 2017)

Dubai is rapidly becoming one of the more attractive destinations for UK expats. Those willing to integrate though will find Dubai very welcoming, much more diverse than one might initially expect and much more affordable than the UK.

Opportunities for British people emigrating to Dubai are therefore plentiful and many have taken advantage of the low crime rates, enhanced spending power and low property prices to vastly improve their quality of life.

Moving from London to Dubai will make you wonder how you ever managed to survive in a city as expensive as the UK capital. Everything from groceries to utilities are cheaper in Dubai - among the very few things you’ll find yourself paying a premium on are, understandably, alcohol and women’s fashion.

Compared to London, Dubai is generally safer and property is more affordable. The city’s roads though are highly congested so you won’t be escaping the London pollution.

Dubai’s climate is desert - much further removed from that of London you could not get. Average high temperatures in the summer months regularly exceed 40°C and rainfall is virtually non-existent except during the months December to March.


The prospect of finding a school for your child in the United Arab Emirates that teaches the right curriculum, in the right language and which is near enough to your home may appear daunting at first but you’ll actually find that there’s a great deal of choice. School fees are also a lot more affordable than the tuition fees of private schools in western countries.

The summer humidity can be quite uncomfortable unless you’re in an air conditioned building or near a chilled pool.

Those looking for a British curriculum might consider the highly regarded JESS and Dubai British School where fees range from around AED 29,000 to around AED 56,000 per year. There are at least 60 schools offering a UK curriculum though, with fees for primary education starting at around AED 4,000.

There are also a number of other international schools with various curricula and programmes from which to choose.

Special needs schooling is rarer and the costs higher (around AED 70,000).

I hope i provided you all the information here you needed 
Have a great stay....


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## Kostik3000 (Jul 10, 2017)

DXBGooner said:


> If it's not too personal would be interested in hearing what you're struggling with? Having moved out from London (originally from Essex) in July I've found it okay although the job itself has been a let down.
> 
> Unfortunately can't go back to London for a while due to the tax implications of moving back within a tax year and half my income from out here going to HMRC!


Actually, my job is good and only thing which still holding me here.

Oh, where to start:

- Bad schools. My daughter went to one of the best preparatory schools in Essex, so I know where compare it to. You got nothing in term of education in Dubai, comparing to UK, for more money actually. Overcrowded classes, and curriculum is 2 years behind UK preparatory schools. Year 1 kids can't bloody write their name and read simple words, pathetic. 

- Luck of activities for kids. No museums, no theaters, no parks comparable to what you get in London or Essex, no farms (my daughter loves them). No where to simply walk as we did in Chelmsford.

- Afterschool activities are bad and very expensive. Group dance class for 30 pounds a hour, what the hell. We paid for very good class 4 pounds back in Essex.

- Everything is more expensive and quality is not as good as in UK. If you want same quality pay 3 times more. 

- Bad traffic and style of driving, drives me mad every day.

- Everything feels temporary, plastic, fake. You can feel what all people are just passing days until they can go back home. Strike difference to UK and London where people belong to the place. 

- Luck of culture overall. Try to take ride in London tube, everybody are very different and trying to express themselves differently. In Dubai is just work-home for 90%, nothing else.

- Bad medical care. Questionable GP doctors who just shovel antibiotics towards you plus many other drugs you simple don't need and they have decency to comment on NHS and tell you how bad it's because it's free  and those doctors never been to UK.

- Everything is very commercialized. Nobody is interested in your hobbies, interests, activities unless you pay money and when again, no interest either.

- Feels like living in hotel, long term, community spirit is close to zero as everybody here just temporary.


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## Kostik3000 (Jul 10, 2017)

Deleted


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## Marcobeats (Oct 5, 2017)

Kostik3000 said:


> Actually, my job is good and only thing which still holding me here.
> 
> Oh, where to start:
> 
> ...


Couldn't have said it better. You tell'em! :thumb:


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## Dave-o (Aug 23, 2015)

So true. The money is the only thing keeping me here right now. For Europeans, unless you have something specific to offer, you're under constant threat of being replaced by someone who will do your job for half the money.

Things I'm struggling with:

- The great outdoors, I come from the countryside and used to walk out the back door and into the hills, loved mountain biking, there's some childrens grade trails an hour's drive away. You can't go outside for 6 months of the year or you'll end up with sunstroke, even in the cold and wet winter back home you can wrap up waterproof and warm and enjoy it but there's nothing you can do against the heat. In the summer the only thing to do is walk round malls or watch endless TV.

- The false, plastic Disneyland feel to everything. Customer service always comes with a beaming smile but you know everyone is overworked, underpaid and putting on a brave face because if they don't, they'll be replaced. Lots of people gloss over it and enjoy a good brunch but I'd rather sit in an old pub with a lazy pub dog and talk to farmers at the bar. 

- It's nigh on impossible to find genuine conversation or genuine people, more often than not, people who are willing to talk to people outside their already close-knit clique will try and sell you an investment or a pyramid scheme. Or they're so wrapped up in their own world of how much money they make, their spangly watch, how many times they've taken the yacht out. You can find an awful lot of acquaintances who see you as something useful in life but it's hard to find genuine friends like you have at home.

- Music, art, events, things to do. Music is confined to crappy bands wringing out covers too loud in small bars or huge stadium events with no atmosphere. It feels like any event is specifically designed to make as much money as possible and no thought goes into atmosphere, it all feels so empty and you long for a decent knees-up.

- Everything is expensive. Everything you can buy is either cheap tat that will fall apart the minute you get it home or 3x the price of what you'd expect to pay. And nothing in between.

- Culture and fashion follows a strict formula and there isn't the variety of people, groups and culture back home. Variety is supposed to be the spice of life but you look across a room in any given venue and you wonder if you're in a world of clones that come from 3 standard designs.

- Fresh air. You get off the plane at home and you instantly notice how clean the air is. I wonder what effect it's having living life breathing in fumes, sand and dust all day or sitting in aircon. I think I'd be better off taking up smoking.

It's been a long year, haven't been home since last christmas and December can't come quick enough.


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## austimmiacnt (Oct 8, 2017)

ok i am residing in dubai for 18 years. if you planning to visit and see attractions, there is long list of shopping malls, such as Dubai Mall , Deira City Center and Mall of the emirates, Ibn Batutta Mall. i am only recommending to visit these as list is pretty long and you cant see everything in two days.

you can also visit area near Jumeriah Beach and Burjul arab and there is free beach access to get the feel of Dubai

If you want to experience parks, then wild wadi is good to visit for a day. Also you can go to atlantis hotel to see world largest fish acquarium and also theme park there also.

no need to visit schools. Education is expensive in Dubai. so if you get good job offer, then bringing your family is a good idea. otherwise i wouldn't recommend it.

you can also take small trip using dubai metro in morning hours, usually it is crowded but you will get feel of the city.

if you had more time like a week, i would suggest go to hatta, khor fakhan, Jebel AL hAFEET to see mountains. but for just two days, you can choose what you like to city. Dubai is great for families and you will enjoy life more if you have good job.





etaggel said:


> Hi,
> 
> I've been given the opportunity to relocate to Dubai and am flying out this week (Monday - Friday) to complete the final interview and to get a feel for the city. If successful, I would be relocating my family (wife + two primary age children) from London.
> 
> ...


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## UKMS (Jan 9, 2017)

Kostik3000 said:


> Actually, my job is good and only thing which still holding me here.
> 
> Oh, where to start:
> 
> ...


Interesting view ..... I’m the first to always say that Dubai is not for everyone....but it does really sound like you’d be better off in Essex. 

Out of interest did you research where you were moving to or did you just expect everything to be like Essex ? 

It sounds like perhaps you’ve made some bad choices along the way ? .... schools, medical care, friends, where you live (like a hotel), have you not thought that perhaps some those choices could be the reason you are unhappy rather than Dubai being a bad place.


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## DXBGooner (Sep 13, 2017)

Yes in the interest of a bit of balance I am surprised to hear some of the negative feedback on the culture (or lack of) out here. Surely it cannot be a shock?

I've not got kids so putting the education/classes etc aside I've found a lot of people to be pretty genuine, some people my wife and I knew from before are out here and we've settled in okay. I'm on the opposite side of the fence why the job I was sold isn't what I got however I'm keen to stick it out and see what else is out there here as it's such an interesting place

(Plus HMRC will take half my money if I go home before April 2019!)


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## TallyHo (Aug 21, 2011)

ameerataher said:


> Those looking for a British curriculum might consider the highly regarded JESS and Dubai British School where fees range from around AED 29,000 to around AED 56,000 per year. There are at least 60 schools offering a UK curriculum though, with fees for primary education starting at around AED 4,000.


Their fees are a lot more than what you listed. A lot more. A lot more.


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## TallyHo (Aug 21, 2011)

The complaints made against Dubai are not uncommon complaints. I've heard them since I first came to the UAE in 2006. Little has changed in that regard, despite that the city has changed quite a bit. It doesn't negate people's experiences for there are certainly drawbacks and limitations to the UAE and it often takes time to adjust to it and seek the alternatives or discover the advantages of this place over the UK.

I'm also from London but I didn't come to Dubai expecting to find another London. I wanted something different and I did find something different. Some of the advantages are listed below:

1. Weather allows me to participate in outdoor activities year round. Ok, the summer months are long and heat is brutal but I still go out early in the morning, I've gone water skiing in July, I swim in chilled swimming pools. And I coped and even enjoy the heat to some degree. Winter months are brilliant.

2. The desert scenery of the UAE is lovely and the solitude of camping on the dunes quite magical. Camping is free and fun (if you enjoy camping). Exploring the wadis of Oman is always a pleasure. Yes, it's not the Alps or the green hills of Britain but it is still something. I grew up in the countryside, so it's more the ability to be outdoors exploring a new place and taking active walks and climbs that makes the camping trips pleasurable, not the stunning views.

3. Beach culture in Dubai: my first few years in the UAE I lived two blocks from the beach and I was at the beach all the time. This is a great advantage to Dubai. 

4. Cosmopolitan flavour of the place. There's 140 nationalities living in Dubai. The dining scene has exploded in the past five/six years. There's still plenty of misses but there's plenty of hits too. 

5. I like driving to work instead of taking the overcrowded tube. Although I'm happy to take the metro when convenient. I've never really had difficulties with the traffic in Dubai, getting around is still quicker and it's more compact than London, and I've always organised my life to be within easy reach of the office or in the reverse traffic flow from the primary rush hour direction. 

I don't have children so I don't have personal experiences with the schools, but I've heard everything on every school. The top British schools like Dubai College and JESS/DESC have a good reputation, the other schools are more a mixed bag. Many parents love them, many parents have bad experiences. That's all I can say. 

Dubai is in many ways a love it or hate it place. People who love it have different reasons, some are certainly into the nightlife and shopping/glamour, while others love the weather, outdoor activities (huge triathlon and outdoor scene in the UAE) and it's a great base for traveling. It is an undeniably expensive city, especially for families, and that has to be carefully considered. Many have left Dubai because the overall cost of living, especially for families, offset any financial advantages to the tax free income. 

Those who argue that the city is plastic and pretentious, well, all cities are to a degree. Even London (the global rich have taken over much of central London and turned it into their playground). But as is also the case with London, have the patience to look a bit beyond the surface and find the local communities, find your friends with common interests, and there's a "real" city here. It's not all fancy shiny towers and bars and overpriced shops. 

However, if you still feel that Dubai isn't the place for you because it simply just does not resonate with you, then there's no shame or guilt in returning home or moving on elsewhere.


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## ameerataher (Oct 4, 2017)

TallyHo said:


> Their fees are a lot more than what you listed. A lot more. A lot more.


Hmm i see i will do a bit of research again on the fee structures then update here.


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## Stevesolar (Dec 21, 2012)

ameerataher said:


> Hmm i see i will do a bit of research again on the fee structures then update here.


No need - everything is available on the KHDA website - lists all schools, curricula, fees and inspection reports:-

https://www.khda.gov.ae/en/Website


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## TallyHo (Aug 21, 2011)

ameerataher said:


> Hmm i see i will do a bit of research again on the fee structures then update here.


JESS starts at 40k for foundation and goes up to 90K for 6th form.

Dubai British school is 75-85k depending on the year.


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## ameerataher (Oct 4, 2017)

TallyHo said:


> JESS starts at 40k for foundation and goes up to 90K for 6th form.
> 
> Dubai British school is 75-85k depending on the year.


Great, thanks for the info :thumb:


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## rsinner (Feb 3, 2009)

TallyHo said:


> JESS starts at 40k for foundation and goes up to 90K for 6th form.
> 
> Dubai British school is 75-85k depending on the year.


And most good schools will be in this ballpark range. JESS is actually slightly cheaper than other comparable schools.

I don't agree with the post saying that most kids in Year 1 do not read/write - as a parent of a kid who is in year 3, I can assure the poster that he (as well as other kids in class) did much better than that. Whether it is worth the fees is another matter, but I knew what fees I would be expected to pay and was prepared for it.

Dubai is different strokes for different folks. As is any place in the world. I have gone through stages of loathe/hate to love to everything in between. The most important thing is to be happy wherever you are - so if Dubai doesn't work on some levels then they should seriously look into moving somewhere else (e.g. Singapore and HK offer excellent low tax options, but are even more expensive compared to Dubai).


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## DXBGooner (Sep 13, 2017)

rsinner said:


> And most good schools will be in this ballpark range. JESS is actually slightly cheaper than other comparable schools.
> 
> I don't agree with the post saying that most kids in Year 1 do not read/write - as a parent of a kid who is in year 3, I can assure the poster that he (as well as other kids in class) did much better than that. Whether it is worth the fees is another matter, but I knew what fees I would be expected to pay and was prepared for it.
> 
> Dubai is different strokes for different folks. As is any place in the world. I have gone through stages of loathe/hate to love to everything in between. The most important thing is to be happy wherever you are - *so if Dubai doesn't work on some levels then they should seriously look into moving somewhere else (e.g. Singapore and HK offer excellent low tax options, but are even more expensive compared to Dubai).*


I've looked at both, not due to a dislike for Dubai but for the search of a non-UK financial hub if my job here doesn't improve. Unfortunately both are challenging, Singapore are, according to contacts, clamping down on foreign workers coming in and in HK Chinese language skills are becoming a requirement for lots of jobs!


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## rsinner (Feb 3, 2009)

DXBGooner said:


> non-UK financial hub


Hence the suggestion for HK and SG - but you are right on both counts. Frankfurt? Joburg (to an extent - depending on what you do)? In any case, moving to a new geography is quite difficult.


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## Stevesolar (Dec 21, 2012)

rsinner said:


> Hence the suggestion for HK and SG - but you are right on both counts. Frankfurt? Joburg (to an extent - depending on what you do)? In any case, moving to a new geography is quite difficult.


Singapore is dire if you like driving nice cars!


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## Kostik3000 (Jul 10, 2017)

TallyHo said:


> JESS starts at 40k for foundation and goes up to 90K for 6th form.
> 
> Dubai British school is 75-85k depending on the year.


I've also heard that there is 3 years waiting list for JESS.


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## Kostik3000 (Jul 10, 2017)

UKMS said:


> Interesting view ..... I’m the first to always say that Dubai is not for everyone....but it does really sound like you’d be better off in Essex.
> 
> Out of interest did you research where you were moving to or did you just expect everything to be like Essex ?
> 
> It sounds like perhaps you’ve made some bad choices along the way ? .... schools, medical care, friends, where you live (like a hotel), have you not thought that perhaps some those choices could be the reason you are unhappy rather than Dubai being a bad place.



Yes, I've visited Dubai since 2005 and have been here more than 15 times so I knew what I was getting myself into, just didn't think it could that bad.

We've spent 1 month looking for school and accommodation dismissing many options on the way.

I live in gated community next to Arabian Ranches, my daughter goes to one of the newer school with mostly expats from Ranches, Motor City, Mira attending, so it's not the worst schools, also, I've heard that older schools are a bit better but they are nightmare to get into.

My first experience with medical care was in medical center in Ranches Souq, again, I wouldn't think it would be that bad, considering it's in the middle of western expat cluster. Yes, I've learned a bit more after a while but still, there is simply no British GP in Dubai as this is very low paid job here and going directly to hospital and trying to find British doctor is not really my thing.

So, I am not sure how my choices could be a reason as all my experiences here have been from bad to worse. I am not sure what different choices I could make?


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## UKMS (Jan 9, 2017)

Kostik3000 said:


> Yes, I've visited Dubai since 2005 and have been here more than 15 times so I knew what I was getting myself into, just didn't think it could that bad.
> 
> We've spent 1 month looking for school and accommodation dismissing many options on the way.
> 
> ...


Fair enough ... perhaps you are just unlucky with so many aspects of your life here being bad. Your first post gave the impression everything was a surprise. 

I’m still slightly puzzled why you expect everything to be the same as the UK ? It’s not the UK. Why do you expect to go to the Ranches medical center and see a British GP ? Why expect everything to cost the same as the UK ? 

I stopped comparing everything back home soon after I arrived and just embraced what was in front of me, I’ve quickly found interests, made friends and at the cost of a tank of fuel viewed some amazing scenery not to be seen anywhere else. I always say it’s not for everyone here but there are many fantastic aspects to the UAE that can balance out the not so good. There are many bad things about London too, questionable GP’s being one of them


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## Kostik3000 (Jul 10, 2017)

UKMS said:


> Fair enough ... perhaps you are just unlucky with so many aspects of your life here being bad. Your first post gave the impression everything was a surprise.
> 
> I’m still slightly puzzled why you expect everything to be the same as the UK ? It’s not the UK. Why do you expect to go to the Ranches medical center and see a British GP ? Why expect everything to cost the same as the UK ?
> 
> I stopped comparing everything back home soon after I arrived and just embraced what was in front of me, I’ve quickly found interests, made friends and at the cost of a tank of fuel viewed some amazing scenery not to be seen anywhere else. I always say it’s not for everyone here but there are many fantastic aspects to the UAE that can balance out the not so good. There are many bad things about London too, questionable GP’s being one of them


Why expect things being similar to the UK? Not sure, it was probably my mistake. I've stayed in Singapore for a while and consider Singapore sort of "London on equator" type of city with so many things being similar or very close, especially if you stay in Western Expat areas. 

With Dubai having routes in British Empire and with so many expats I was hoping to find similar level of service at least in expat areas. So why not to expect British GP in middle of British hot spot area? But yes, probably, I was naïve to expect that.

Yes, there are questionable GPs in London too, but none of them would subscribe one month course of antibiotics to cure your flu or sore throat or would they


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## Kostik3000 (Jul 10, 2017)

rsinner said:


> I don't agree with the post saying that most kids in Year 1 do not read/write - as a parent of a kid who is in year 3, I can assure the poster that he (as well as other kids in class) did much better than that. Whether it is worth the fees is another matter, but I knew what fees I would be expected to pay and was prepared for it.


The main problem is very overcrowded classes. There is simply not enough attention to be given to each kid. 25-28 kids in the class, it's something unheard of back in the UK in private schools. Also, when you try to complain all schools in Dubai are referencing to public schools in UK, not sure why as those are free and Dubai schools should be comparing themselves to private schools.

I was paying 6500 GBP per year for a very very good private school in the UK. We had 3 teachers in the class of 18... this is what I call good value for money.

Now I pay 10,000 GBP and get one teacher (plus questionable assistant) for 25 kids and all I hear "This is Dubai, get used to it".


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## UKMS (Jan 9, 2017)

Kostik3000 said:


> Yes, there are questionable GPs in London too, but none of them would subscribe one month course of antibiotics to cure your flu or sore throat or would they


You are right because by the time you even get an appointment to see a GP in London your flu and sore throat is long gone ..... but that’s another topic


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## notdave (Jul 11, 2015)

You are right because by the time you even get an appointment to see a GP in London your *man*flu*/cold* and sore throat is long gone ..... but that’s another topic 

There... fixed that for you


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## QOFE (Apr 28, 2013)

Dubai isn't for everyone. A lot leave with the tail behind their legs and others stay on either accepting it for what it is or loving it.

I could've easily belonged to the first category. I'm now somewhere in the middle and can't see myself back in Europe anytime soon. As with any new country you move to, it takes time to settle in and build up a new life again. If one would've stayed back home life would be easy with family & friends and all the comforts that one has with all things familiar. Expat life isn't like that. With every move it's another uproot and starting everything again. Thanks to internet and technology it's easy to stay in touch with people from your old life but after years some fade away and some stay that were meant to stay. It takes time to settle in wherever you move, especially if you don't already have friends in the new country.

I've lived in London too and yes, some things there are fabulous but life in Dubai is much easier. Taxis in Dubai are dirt cheap and the metro is clean. The culture scene in London is well mature. Here in Dubai it's still establishing. I'm a bit disappointed to hear people saying there is no culture here. You need to explore more. There are several culture districts here: Al Serkal Avenue, Al Fahidi, Gate Village in DIFC and D3 to name a few. There are also theatres, not in a West End scale of course but there are a few. It's a work in progress with more art and venues coming up. It's quite impressive to see how this country has progressed and developed in a short time. No museums? What about the beautiful Etihad museum? And The Louvre and Guggenheim buildings in Abu Dhabi nearly finished. There are also several small museums in Deira and Bur Dubai. Do you ever venture out there? 

What I appreciate most is the safety and security here. It's nice to be able to walk around and be left alone. It's possible to sit in a cafe or bar with the mobile and various other valuables on full display and nobody will try to rob you. I left my mobile in a taxi and the driver brought it back to my home. In London I've had my wallet and several mobiles stolen amongst other things. There is no aggressive begging or junkies hanging around here. There are plenty of places to walk around and explore. Of course it isn't like the country side in an European country (and yes, UK is in Europe- Brexit or no Brexit) but why should it be? It's not crime free here but the likelihood to be a victim of crime here is very low.

The plastic fantastic people are overrepresented here and they make more noise than most. There are nice people here too and so many different nationalities and cultures. Venture away from your usual bubble and you might find new things. Some people find it necessary to try to fit in with the plastic fantastic but it's not mandatory.


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## austimmiacnt (Oct 8, 2017)

very well said. Dubai is amazing place to live and it takes sometime to adjust to environment here. it took me initially one year to settle completely and dubai is multicultural society where people from all races come and participate in making this city wonderful. highly recommended.



QOFE said:


> Dubai isn't for everyone. A lot leave with the tail behind their legs and others stay on either accepting it for what it is or loving it.
> 
> I could've easily belonged to the first category. I'm now somewhere in the middle and can't see myself back in Europe anytime soon. As with any new country you move to, it takes time to settle in and build up a new life again. If one would've stayed back home life would be easy with family & friends and all the comforts that one has with all things familiar. Expat life isn't like that. With every move it's another uproot and starting everything again. Thanks to internet and technology it's easy to stay in touch with people from your old life but after years some fade away and some stay that were meant to stay. It takes time to settle in wherever you move, especially if you don't already have friends in the new country.
> 
> ...


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## notdave (Jul 11, 2015)

I have already rewritten and deleted this twice as I ventured into page 3...

Expat life, is, very simply, living in somebody else's world and culture. Expecting it all to be just so shows some level of hubris.

Life here is a very mixed bag, some/much of which we really enjoy, to name but a few:

sitting outside at a poolside bar at 8-9pm... 
breakfast by the beach... 
some (a very select few) brunches.
long walks on the beach
varied food/restaurants
personal safety
strange (still, to us) wildlife
And some we aren't keen on (especially the wife about one ore two )

Bureaucratic nightmares.
My wife needs an NOC to do some things and is treated like chattels.
Road safety (road crossings, pedestrian facilities and driving... though, as I don't, I probably mean passenging).
A lack of authenticity in many people and places 
(I think the people thing is largely due to the largely transient nature that many people have here. Though, the longer I am here, the more gnarly old timers I meet, who have been here for many years/decades, the happier it makes me. They can often be some of the most fun and genuine people around).

It is what it is. We all make the trades of what we love and hate about where we live. Sometimes either me or the wife get a bit irritated about something... then we think back on many aspects of city centre life from where we used to live. Chuggers, junkies, beggars, lunatics... and reflect on how much nicer life is here. Yes, there are many things we cannot get. But there are many things we can now, that we could not easily before.

If you aren't enjoying it, either you are not adjusting, or it is not for you. I cannot count the days and days of frustrations and stress where I felt like I was trying to push slurry up hills... before I realised (I think it happened on a Tuesday)... life and processes in Dubai have their own tempo. Nothing goes any faster than it does, no matter how stressed you get. Nothing changes overnight. That... and finding *decent* pork pies is a struggle, but hey... I'd never tried dragon fruit before (sheltered life, I know)... and I can get my hair cut for about 3 quid in Karama... and 5 of us will struggle to spend 200 dirhams having a slap up dinner at Ravis.

Not trying to lecture anybody... but... if you hate it so much... refer to my avatar.


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## TallyHo (Aug 21, 2011)

Dave is right. When you move abroad (or any new place, actually) it's easy to focus on the flaws of the new place while looking at your old home through rosy tints. So much of the frustration stems from suddenly being plunged into a different tempo (Brilliant word, Dave) so you get frustrated too easily when things aren't done exactly as how you've always done it before. Flexibility is always key to a successful expat experience.

I'll also add that so much of your personal reactions to a new place comes down to exactly what you're comparing it to, and that varies from person to person. There are plenty of British families who find their kids' schools in the UAE an improvement over the bog standard comp they attended back home, and find that they can have bigger and more comfortable housing in the UAE compared to the cramped homes of the UK. But there are also other families who moved to the UAE from very comfortable lives in the UK and find the quality of what's on offer to be substandard in everything from schooling and housing and amenities. And luck does play a role. Some families move to Dubai and magically walk straight into the best British schools with small class sizes, great teachers and facilities, while others struggle to get their kids into ordinary schools with outrageous fees for what you get. Some families move into a great villa a few blocks from the beach and 15 minutes' drive from the office, other families move to a dusty villa on the outskirts of the city and seemingly a long way from anywhere. Very different experiences. Instead of bailing out of the UAE it may be worth it to reorganise your life, move closer to work, find better schools for the kids, figure out that the big barn of a new villa in a dusty new estate outside Dubai isn't as attractive as a smaller but better located villa. 

I will say the one thing that just about everyone agrees on, however, is health care. Health care isn't bad in the UAE, not at all, but it is complicated, and often amazingly complicated. It's all driven by private health insurances and the lavish health programmes for the Emiratis, so it's shockingly expensive if you have to pay out of pocket and there's a high risk of over-diagnosing and recommending overly complicated treatments, mainly for the clinic to make money.


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## Racing_Goats (Sep 5, 2015)

We moved to RAK after 6 years in Abu Dhabi and it’s pretty good for us so far with 3 kids under 11 - housing and schools are cheaper, better community and pace of life generally, and for a job around Dubai airport commute should be under an hour. Worth a look, happy to answer any questions by Pm.


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## Kostik3000 (Jul 10, 2017)

TallyHo said:


> Instead of bailing out of the UAE it may be worth it to reorganise your life, move closer to work, find better schools for the kids, figure out that the big barn of a new villa in a dusty new estate outside Dubai isn't as attractive as a smaller but better located villa.
> 
> I will say the one thing that just about everyone agrees on, however, is health care. Health care isn't bad in the UAE, not at all, but it is complicated, and often amazingly complicated. It's all driven by private health insurances and the lavish health programmes for the Emiratis, so it's shockingly expensive if you have to pay out of pocket and there's a high risk of over-diagnosing and recommending overly complicated treatments, mainly for the clinic to make money.


I already live 15 min from my work  I can't move any closer as we didn't like school close to my work.

With regards to health care, your statement is a bit contradictive as health care which is trying to push most complicated and hence most expensive treatment towards you cannot be "not bad" by default. The main concept of modern healthcare nowadays is holistic approach to most of the problems with prevailing "wait and see" approach. Of course this wouldn't benefit local clinics and hospitals.

Just yesterday, my wife yet again was almost pushed to have most complicated procedure for her problem with doctor totally dismissing other options. I have stopped her and after checking NHS web site on this issue, they only recommend same procedure as last resort when all other options have been tried and failed. I cannot call it "not bad" in any light.


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## Kostik3000 (Jul 10, 2017)

UKMS said:


> You are right because by the time you even get an appointment to see a GP in London your flu and sore throat is long gone ..... but that’s another topic


I personally never had any issues with GPs in London as many of the practices actually have improved.

However, you are also comparing totally free health care system to the paid one.

If you pay couple of thousands pounds per year towards Bupa insurance in UK, I can guarantee, you can see private GP any time day or night.


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## twowheelsgood (Feb 21, 2013)

You think the NHS is totally free ? It's a VASTLY expensive system. 


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## Kostik3000 (Jul 10, 2017)

QOFE said:


> I've lived in London too and yes, some things there are fabulous but life in Dubai is much easier. Taxis in Dubai are dirt cheap and the metro is clean. The culture scene in London is well mature. Here in Dubai it's still establishing. I'm a bit disappointed to hear people saying there is no culture here. You need to explore more. There are several culture districts here: Al Serkal Avenue, Al Fahidi, Gate Village in DIFC and D3 to name a few. There are also theatres, not in a West End scale of course but there are a few. It's a work in progress with more art and venues coming up. It's quite impressive to see how this country has progressed and developed in a short time. No museums? What about the beautiful Etihad museum? And The Louvre and Guggenheim buildings in Abu Dhabi nearly finished. There are also several small museums in Deira and Bur Dubai. Do you ever venture out there?
> 
> What I appreciate most is the safety and security here. It's nice to be able to walk around and be left alone. It's possible to sit in a cafe or bar with the mobile and various other valuables on full display and nobody will try to rob you. I left my mobile in a taxi and the driver brought it back to my home. In London I've had my wallet and several mobiles stolen amongst other things. There is no aggressive begging or junkies hanging around here. There are plenty of places to walk around and explore. Of course it isn't like the country side in an European country (and yes, UK is in Europe- Brexit or no Brexit) but why should it be? It's not crime free here but the likelihood to be a victim of crime here is very low.
> 
> The plastic fantastic people are overrepresented here and they make more noise than most. There are nice people here too and so many different nationalities and cultures. Venture away from your usual bubble and you might find new things. Some people find it necessary to try to fit in with the plastic fantastic but it's not mandatory.compared to London in any sense and this is big expense in our budget.


Taxi is dirt cheap in Dubai? It's another myth populating on this forum for whatever reason. They are no dirt cheap, they are actually expensive, considering cost of labor and petrol. If you want to see dirt cheap taxis, visit Cambodia, Sri-Lanka or Vietnam, where crossing city from end to end would cost you about 15 AED.

My wife using taxis all the time as she cannot drive and public transport cannot be compare to London and this is big part of our monthly expense, going into thousands actually.

I've been to all culture districts you have mentioned and some more. It's something to visit for couple of hours and nothing more. It's nothing to compare to London really. It's mostly artificial as 95% of population of Dubai is not here for the culture or expressing themselves.

Museums? I am sorry, but Dubai don't have, and will never have something on the scale of Natural History Museum, Maritime Museum or Science Museum. And I am talking about kids here (leaving all British Museum, Portrait Gallery and million other options in London behind). Sorry, it's like comparing 19 century technology with 21st century. They are light years apart.

Louvre in Abu Dhabi? I've heard they have fake Eiffel Tower in China too. 

When I used to ask my daughter what she wants to do during weekend. Her common answer was let's go to Natural History museum. I can't imaging her saying: "Yeah, let's go to Sharjah to visit that two room, non discrete museum".

Safety? Why I am living in gated community with big fence around and with at least 20 security guys day and night? I never lived in gated community back in UK and frankly would never do it in the future.


I would tolerate Dubai if I have no kids. Actually, I was staying here first 3 months by myself and didn't really mind it. 

School surprised me today again but employing "boiler room" sale tactics on small kids, how pathetic they are. Complained to Head Teacher who said she can do nothing as this is decision of schools' sponsors (not sure why they keep calling owners as sponsors, sponsoring what?). Complained in Parents group, got usual reply: "It's Dubai, accept it or move out". Why should I accept things which are morally wrong in any culture.

I know people are closing eyes on many things but also, at least inside they should understand what saying "it's ok" won't make things "ok".


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## UKMS (Jan 9, 2017)

Kostik3000 said:


> Taxi is dirt cheap in Dubai? It's another myth populating on this forum for whatever reason. They are no dirt cheap, they are actually expensive, considering cost of labor and petrol. If you want to see dirt cheap taxis, visit Cambodia, Sri-Lanka or Vietnam, where crossing city from end to end would cost you about 15 AED.
> 
> My wife using taxis all the time as she cannot drive and public transport cannot be compare to London and this is big part of our monthly expense, going into thousands actually.
> 
> ...


The bottom line is you made the choice to come here and bring your family here, I’m assuming nobody forced you ? You also have the choice whether you stay or not. 

You seem to be complaining about things that are within your control ! .... you don’t like living in a gated community, why move there ? You don’t like the school your kid goes to, why send your child there, you presumably made the choice ? You find taxis in Dubai expensive but I notice you didn’t make the comparison to London with that one  

Sounds like you are frustrated with your own choices !


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## Tackledummy (Jul 14, 2013)

Kostik3000 said:


> Taxi is dirt cheap in Dubai? It's another myth populating on this forum for whatever reason. They are no dirt cheap, they are actually expensive, considering cost of labor and petrol. If you want to see dirt cheap taxis, visit Cambodia, Sri-Lanka or Vietnam, where crossing city from end to end would cost you about 15 AED.
> 
> My wife using taxis all the time as she cannot drive and public transport cannot be compare to London and this is big part of our monthly expense, going into thousands actually.
> 
> ...


Bloody hell - do you want some cheese with that whine!??!


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## Kostik3000 (Jul 10, 2017)

UKMS said:


> The bottom line is you made the choice to come here and bring your family here, I’m assuming nobody forced you ? You also have the choice whether you stay or not.
> 
> You seem to be complaining about things that are within your control ! .... you don’t like living in a gated community, why move there ? You don’t like the school your kid goes to, why send your child there, you presumably made the choice ? You find taxis in Dubai expensive but I notice you didn’t make the comparison to London with that one
> 
> Sounds like you are frustrated with your own choices !


Why would I compare taxis with London when in London I can reach anywhere using one of the best public transport system in the world, hence public transport in London is not cheap.

Taxis in Dubai is not a choice like in London, it's necessity.

I made commitment on few fronts to stay here for at least two years, so yes, may be I should accept my choices and stay here for two years and just leave quietly.

Why I made those choices on school, accommodation, etc, because not much else is available here, I am afraid.


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## Kostik3000 (Jul 10, 2017)

Tackledummy said:


> Bloody hell - do you want some cheese with that whine!??!


Yes, please


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## QOFE (Apr 28, 2013)

Kostik3000 said:


> Taxi is dirt cheap in Dubai? It's another myth populating on this forum for whatever reason. They are no dirt cheap, they are actually expensive, considering cost of labor and petrol. If you want to see dirt cheap taxis, visit Cambodia, Sri-Lanka or Vietnam, where crossing city from end to end would cost you about 15 AED.
> 
> Weren't you comparing London to Dubai?
> 
> ...



Just a thought... but did you not think of what the other reasons there might be that your kid hasn't learnt how to write her own name yet?


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## The Rascal (Aug 6, 2014)

Kostic, maybe it's not the place for you.

Now off you go like a good little boy and leave us, who enjoy being here, alone.


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## TallyHo (Aug 21, 2011)

My post was not contradictory. We actually agree to an extent. Health care in the UAE can be complicated due to the tendency to over diagnose and recommend excessive treatments, all at a high cost. What I meant was there are good doctors and well equipped health clinics and hospitals in the UAE. It's not like being an expat in an African country or many other places. Which is why I said health care in the UAE isn't bad, it really isn't, it's just expensive and complicated. 

So much of one's success in adapting to a place comes down to how you organise your life in that place. The UAE does offer a variety of options so perhaps try something different, a different school, a different community. Do take a look at Time Out and there are scads of cultural events. Ok, there's no blockbuster Da Vinci or Monet exhibitions but there are small art galleries and theatre groups and music performances. The more effort you put in, the more you will get out of it.

At the end of the day, if the UAE is simply not the right place for you then there is no shame in leaving and finding a better place. Many have done so. 





Kostik3000 said:


> I already live 15 min from my work  I can't move any closer as we didn't like school close to my work.
> 
> With regards to health care, your statement is a bit contradictive as health care which is trying to push most complicated and hence most expensive treatment towards you cannot be "not bad" by default. The main concept of modern healthcare nowadays is holistic approach to most of the problems with prevailing "wait and see" approach. Of course this wouldn't benefit local clinics and hospitals.
> 
> Just yesterday, my wife yet again was almost pushed to have most complicated procedure for her problem with doctor totally dismissing other options. I have stopped her and after checking NHS web site on this issue, they only recommend same procedure as last resort when all other options have been tried and failed. I cannot call it "not bad" in any light.


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