# Newbie Looking for Advice



## NorthernGeezer (Oct 1, 2014)

Ey oop everyone from a warm and sunny Manchester 

Apologies straight off for asking questions as a newbie that will probably have been asked more than once before.

Me and the present Mrs Geezer are toying with the idea of 'moving' to Spain next year, part time at least, and looking for any advice you can give.

Most of the research I've done up to now suggest you buy property but that's not in my plans, I'd much rather have the freedom that renting gives, is there any reason why this isn't mentioned much?

We are probably looking to 'winter' in Spain and 'summer' in the UK, are there any restrictions or financial implications on staying in Spain for say 8 months?

Looking forward to any advice given eace:


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## thrax (Nov 13, 2008)

Hi and welcome to the forum. The simple rule is that if you stay in Spain for more than 183 days you are considered to be tax resident here and will need to inform HMRC that you no longer pay tax in UK. If you were to stay for under 183 days then you will continue to be tax resident in UK. And definitely don't buy at the moment. Renting is what most folk on this forum recommend.


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## NorthernGeezer (Oct 1, 2014)

Thanks for the quick response Thrax.
I'll be living off savings so don't pay tax, is that still the case?
Also, what about when we go back to the UK for 4 months?


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## amespana (Nov 10, 2009)

I suggest you look at the FAQs at the top of the page,if your research tells you that its better to buy than rent I think you might be researching in the wrong areas(perhaps an agents website!).Also if you spend more than 183 days in Spain that's another kettle of pesca! Too late off to bed.


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## NorthernGeezer (Oct 1, 2014)

If you Google 'Retiring to Spain' nearly every hit refers to buying, not renting


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## amespana (Nov 10, 2009)

Is this a wum?


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## thrax (Nov 13, 2008)

So let's say you buy and don't rent. Then discover that Spain or at least the area you chose to buy in is not for you. The housing market has collapsed here and the chance you could sell is extremely remote, so you'd be stuck in an area or property you don't like. Rent for 2 - 5 years and make absolutely sure you have chosen the correct location.


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## Lolito (Aug 25, 2012)

I moved here from UK, and we've been renting for 4 years now, and after 4 years, we are now in the position to buy, knowing the area quite well by now, we know what we want and how to find it, so we have now bought a cute house in the perfect place and we are moving in next month.

Had we bought this place we live in now (renting), it would have been a nightmare, in so many ways, so I am glad we rented first.

Buying without knowing anything about the area you are moving into, is crazy in my opinion.

Ops! and we have moved 3 times in these four years, as the first place that we thought it was perfect for us was really bad in the end, same happened with the second place and this one, in the end we have found the perfect spot far from here. You can't plan these things.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Lolito said:


> I moved here from UK, and we've been renting for 4 years now, and after 4 years, we are now in the position to buy, knowing the area quite well by now, we know what we want and how to find it, so we have now bought a cute house in the perfect place and we are moving in next month.
> 
> Had we bought this place we live in now (renting), it would have been a nightmare, in so many ways, so I am glad we rented first.
> 
> ...


Yep, I agree with that! Especially when buying property in Spain is so different from buying in England!

Jo xxx


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## Leper (May 12, 2010)

Hi Northerngeezer, Obviously, you have never looked at my posts. I have always promoted renting over buying for many reasons. Ask anybody who bought in Spain ten years ago who is now stuck with property worth nearly 50% cheaper now. Do not use this as a buying point either. With Spanish taxes and succession laws you are onto a loser straight away.

When you rent, you have accommodation in your preferred location and you have the "get out" facility at any time. Buy and you do not have this unless you are very lucky.

Not only do you have a preferred location when you rent you have continuous choice regarding which areas you wish to live.

Renting privately has never been easier. Just go to almost any resort and you will see the 'Se Alquiler' (To Rent) signs on every road. These signs have telephone numbers and believe me the property owner will love to hear from you. Renting a two bedroom apartment in a good location and in a decent resort will cost you around €550 per month + electricity costs in the off season.


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

NorthernGeezer said:


> Thanks for the quick response Thrax.
> I'll be living off savings so don't pay tax, is that still the case?
> Also, what about when we go back to the UK for 4 months?


What do you plan to do about any healthcare needs you may have during your time in Spain? After 90 days you are supposed to be registered as a resident and not officially entitled to use your EHIC card. You would not be able to get travel insurance for an 8 month period as the insurance companies work on the basis that after 90 days you are a resident (or should be) and not a tourist. Of course, if you presented yourself at a hospital they might accept your EHIC, but would you really want to risk being turned away, especially in an emergency, or being presented with a large bill after the event if the UK refuse to pay?

Really, an 8 month period is not a 'visit', is it? It means you are living in another country for two thirds of the year and should comply with the residency rules - or, if you don't want to do that, fly back to the UK after 89 days and split your visit into two or three separate ones.


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

Lynn R said:


> What do you plan to do about any healthcare needs you may have during your time in Spain? After 90 days you are supposed to be registered as a resident and not officially entitled to use your EHIC card. You would not be able to get travel insurance for an 8 month period as the insurance companies work on the basis that after 90 days you are a resident (or should be) and not a tourist. Of course, if you presented yourself at a hospital they might accept your EHIC, but would you really want to risk being turned away, especially in an emergency, or being presented with a large bill after the event if the UK refuse to pay?
> 
> Really, an 8 month period is not a 'visit', is it? It means you are living in another country for two thirds of the year and should comply with the residency rules - or, if you don't want to do that, fly back to the UK after 89 days and split your visit into two or three separate ones.


PLUS, if he's here 8 months and in the UK only 4 every year, then he is clearly resident in Spain and not UK.

To him it might feel like a holiday but to Spain and the UK, it's the other way around.


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## extranjero (Nov 16, 2012)

NorthernGeezer said:


> Thanks for the quick response Thrax.
> I'll be living off savings so don't pay tax, is that still the case?
> Also, what about when we go back to the UK for 4 months?


Wherever your income comes from, in the world, you will pay tax on it in Spain, pensions, savings interest, lump sums, winnings, inheritances, matured money plans.
Everything that is tax free in UK, eg lottery, premium bonds , Isas, is not in Spain.
Also, as a tax resident, If you have more than € 50, 000 euros worth of assets in each category of savings, investments or property, you will have to declare them( in great detail)
Remember also, if you spend 8 months in Spain you are a resident after 90 days ( 183 tax resident) and have to sign on the foreigners register, which is the law.
You will not then be eligible for UK NHS care, as that is residence based. Your EHIC is valid for 3 months, and then only for emergency treatment.
Your best bet is to spend less than 90 days in Spain each year, if you want to avoid all the hassle.


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## NorthernGeezer (Oct 1, 2014)

Thanks for the info guys, from the sound of it there is no half way house, you cant have a foot in both camps.

My plan was to spend at least 4 months in the UK with my family, but that dosn't seem to be the way the system works.

I'm not really keen on the 90 days rule but its an option i suppose, and I'm also not keen on declaring all my financial interests.
Whilst i understand the need to be able to show you can support yourself, it sounds a little intrusive for my liking.
I suppose that's why all the immigrants are queuing up at Calais to get over here.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

NorthernGeezer said:


> Thanks for the info guys, from the sound of it there is no half way house, you cant have a foot in both camps.
> 
> My plan was to spend at least 4 months in the UK with my family, but that dosn't seem to be the way the system works.
> 
> ...


Its the same in the UK, altho the welfare/NHS benefits are based on address, rather than paying into the system (but I think thats changing to living here for three months or something???) and of course the UK has social housing.

I know quite a few people who spend their winters in Spain - 3 months seems fine. We nip over for a week or two here and there in the winter. 

Jo xxx


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## NorthernGeezer (Oct 1, 2014)

90 days either side of Xmas dosnt sound that bad really


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

NorthernGeezer said:


> 90 days either side of Xmas dosnt sound that bad really


Exactly - and at that time of year flights are cheap - so sorted. October til December - christmas with the family in England and then January til March!!! 

We have lots of friends that do more or less this. We would if we didnt have work/family/pets. so we fly over when we can. we did rent a place for 3 months one year, but I dont think we got full use out of it. So now, we stay with friends who rent. 

Jo xxx


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## ABERAFON (Aug 15, 2014)

NorthernGeezer said:


> Ey oop everyone from a warm and sunny Manchester
> 
> Apologies straight off for asking questions as a newbie that will probably have been asked more than once before.
> 
> ...


Hi Northern Geezer,

You have the same dilemma as many people have today who want to spend time in Spain but retain a foothold in the UK. When I lived between the two countries back in the early 2000s right up to 2010, it was easy to flit between. I paid all my taxes etc. in Spain as a non resident and that was it. In recent times it has been tightened up so you have to be careful as to how you divide your time between the two countries. if you spend more than the 6 months in Spain then you will ending up paying a lot of tax on your worldwide assets, and over time you will lose various rights in the UK particularly the NHS. I personally would forget the 3 months thing and go for 3 lots of two months, that way you can use your UK health card if you were to need it, you can also get cheap holiday insurance and car hire. It is also more flexible and you can plan your visits around family events in the UK such as Xmas, Easter etc. 

The advice on this site is invariably right and well intentioned as there is no one on this site who would want you to end up doing the wrong thing or ending up broke and disillusioned. When they say rent they really mean that would be best, at least initially until you decide Spain is for you as it really is going to be a culture shock and many find that they can't deal with it or live around ex pat communities to try and recreate Britain in Spain and that was not what they said they wanted to come to Spain for. If you buy a house and find you don't want to stay in Spain then you will not be able to sell it for along time, if you rent and like it you will be in a better position to know what you are looking for. 

The key is to plan well, prepare well and sample life in Spain first, rent a house for a full year, go for periods of two months and then back to UK for a month or 6 weeks, then back to Spain. Hence you will get the summer in the UK. That way you will get a handle on life in Spain without committing and the main thing is to work hard at learning the language so you can practice it in the months you are in Spain because communication is the key to getting a handle on Spain and the Spanish. Good luck,


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## thrax (Nov 13, 2008)

3 lots of two months or two lots of three months but remembering to keep it to a maximum of 182 days total each year and you should be fine. It will also be time enough to figure out if you really do like your chosen destination.


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## ddrysdale99 (Apr 3, 2014)

Do most people rent furnished or unfurnished? The majority of adverts I've seen look to be for furnished places.
Perhaps I'm looking in the wrong places - must go back to the forum stickies and look again.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

ddrysdale99 said:


> Do most people rent furnished or unfurnished? The majority of adverts I've seen look to be for furnished places.
> Perhaps I'm looking in the wrong places - must go back to the forum stickies and look again.


most, though not all, rentals are indeed furnished

unfurnished will often need you to bring everything down to curtain poles, sink plugs & light fittings


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## NorthernGeezer (Oct 1, 2014)

A lot of good advice guys, thanks very much :tongue:
Talking it over with the present Mrs Geezer, the 90 days either side of Xmas sounds like a good option to get the lay of the land.


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

NorthernGeezer said:


> I'm also not keen on declaring all my financial interests.


Good job you weren't thinking of France, then. Just look at what they have to do there - ALL overseas accounts have to be declared every year no matter how much or how little is in them (rather than €50,00 in any asset class as it is here):-

"If you are resident in France and you have a bank account outside of France which you have not declared then you will be fined €1,500 fine per account for each year of non-declaration. It doesn’t matter how much is in the account or how long you have had it or where the money came from - this is the minimum you will pay.

From 1st January 2017, countries will begin exchanging details of bank accounts held in their jurisdiction with the countries in which the account holder is resident. This means that the French will find out what accounts you hold, details of balances, interest, dividends, and sales proceeds from financial assets. This will also include trusts and foundations.

The fine is increased to €10,000 per account for each year the host country of the account was on the OECD blacklist (includes Switzerland for example) as well as France’s own blacklist (includes Jersey for example).

If there was any income or capital which would have been taxed in France during the previous 10 years then corrected returns for income, capital gain and wealth tax (if relevant) for the last 10 years will need to be submitted.

In addition there will be a fine of 5% of the accounts balances per annum, compounded interest (at 0.4% per month) and penalties of between 15% and 30% going back up to 10 years for any under-declarations."


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## saj51 (Dec 27, 2012)

ddrysdale99 said:


> Do most people rent furnished or unfurnished? The majority of adverts I've seen look to be for furnished places.
> Perhaps I'm looking in the wrong places - must go back to the forum stickies and look again.


This is something that we struggled with when we arrived (a few weeks ago) We are bringing our furniture and needed an unfurnished property. As you say most places are furnished, some very badly yuck. fortunately we found an owner who was willing to take out the furniture but a lot of agents and owners just said no. They are out there but a little more work needed in weedling them out. Good Luck


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