# Residencia refused - Alicante



## Glynb (Oct 6, 2016)

Greetings all.

We are neither UK State Pensioners, or employed in Spain, we are early retired with occupational pensions. 

We applied for residencia but were refused for two reasons a) no health care b) no full bank statements stamped by the bank.

a) That one is easily rectified, we're joining the Spanish state system.

b) we took our bank paying in book (Bankia) which was up to date the day before, plus a stamped sheet from the bank stating the total amount of savings available in the account (a substantial sum). This was not enough and they wanted a full bank statement showing all the transactions, stamped by the bank. 

So there's the background to our situation.... 

My query is (and I can't seem to find any official link explaining), what exactly is it they will be looking to see on these bank statements? 

Is it details of regular income? 
That goes into my UK bank each month and then we transfer it over once the exchange rate is a bit more favourable. My Spanish statement will not show regular monthly occupational pension amounts, but does show a regular bank transfer each month. Will that be sufficient in tandem with the savings to satisfy them? If not, do we need to get our UK incomes paid directly into the Spanish banks for three months then reapply?


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## Barriej (Jul 23, 2012)

Hi.

I was sent the latest required from Benidorm and Alicante by our solicitor a couple of weeks ago.

The private health insurance must be fully paid (no copay) Nothing about not covering existing conditions (well in our letter anyway). You will need the certificate of insurance and proof that the years payments have been made. (on the bank statement or a receipt from the bank if paid that way)

Money in Bank. It says in our letter. 

Letter from a Spanish bank confirming a balance of minimum €7000 each for 1st and 2nd person and after that €3500 for each additional together with an up to date bank statement.
Says nothing of it being stamped, but our preferred office is in Benidorm and Ive heard that they are a little more relaxed there.

Im assuming that because you didn't have health care that would have stopped your application even if you had the money.

Its best to have the money in Spain as, and this has been told to us a couple of times now. The authorities are now getting careful, people have in the past taken out a bank loan to show the money, got residence and then repaid the money. 
Also you will be spending the money in Spain why leave it else where?


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

Glynb said:


> a) That one is easily rectified, we're joining the Spanish state system.


Are you able to join the Spanish state system in Alicante without having been legally resident in Spain for at least one year? Normally, a minimum of one year's residence is required to pay in via the Convenio Especial, if that is the route you are thinking of, so people have to take out private health insurance for their first year in Spain at least.


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## nigele2 (Dec 25, 2009)

Above all else shop around. For cash I showed an ATM receipt showing a 6000 balance. I could have borrowed the money for a day. And in any case if I only had 6000 I'd have starved to death by now.

I had been to another place where I'd have needed to jump the grand national course (that's over 4 miles and 30 fences for non Brits or those not into horse racing) to meet their demands. 

Welcome to Spain and good luck


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

Incidentally was it you who actually spoke to the person dealing with your application? And if so was it in spanish? The first time I tried ( before I had decent Spanish) I was refused and I was convinced the official was being rude and unprofessional The second time it was done by a representative of my lawyer and was successful. After having lost my card I did the process myself in Spanish and found that the official was really helpful in pointing out what he needed and even reassured me there would be no problem once I returned with an updated padron cert


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

Glynb said:


> a) That one is easily rectified, we're joining the Spanish state system.


How will you be doing that? Do you have jobs now as this is the only way it will be possible for you.


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## Glynb (Oct 6, 2016)

Thanks, so the statement is required as well as the letter showing the total amount in the account. I get it. With regard to Health cover, we will be joining the State system, hopefully.


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## Glynb (Oct 6, 2016)

kaipa said:


> Incidentally was it you who actually spoke to the person dealing with your application? And if so was it in spanish? The first time I tried ( before I had decent Spanish) I was refused and I was convinced the official was being rude and unprofessional The second time it was done by a representative of my lawyer and was successful. After having lost my card I did the process myself in Spanish and found that the official was really helpful in pointing out what he needed and even reassured me there would be no problem once I returned with an updated padron cert


I went in myself. My Spanish is rudimentary, I got so far then he switched to English, which was pretty kind of him. I forgot to ask 'providing I return with a statement and health cover will my application then be fine'? But my wife did remember to ask and was told yes.


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

Glynb said:


> Thanks, so the statement is required as well as the letter showing the total amount in the account. I get it. With regard to Health cover, we will be joining the State system, hopefully.


But how Will you be joining the state system, it’s only open to holders of S1 ie in receipt of state pension or if you are working?


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

Glynb said:


> Thanks, so the statement is required as well as the letter showing the total amount in the account. I get it. With regard to Health cover, we will be joining the State system, hopefully.


As I said earlier - HOW?

Unless you hold an S1 or a job, then it won't be (legally) possible.


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## Love Karma (Oct 10, 2018)

snikpoh said:


> *As I said earlier - HOW?*
> 
> Unless you hold an S1 or a job, then it won't be (legally) possible.


Calm yourself dear, there really is no need to shout


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

Love Karma said:


> Calm yourself dear, there really is no need to shout


I understand your comment, but equally, it would be beneficial to all who read this to get clarification of what the poster means by “joining the public healthcare system “.


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## Barriej (Jul 23, 2012)

Megsmum said:


> I understand your comment, but equally, it would be beneficial to all who read this to get clarification of what the poster means by “joining the public healthcare system “.


Agreed, cause if its easy to get on the Spanish system Im going to save €3000 next year when we move over.


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## blondebob (Aug 16, 2019)

As far as I'm aware as things stand as of today there is No "easy way" (even pensioners with S1 has proved tricky for some) to get on the Spanish health system for free whatever ones status is. And in my opinion is not going to change post Brexit, especially when we all possibly have to reprove financials under the far more stringent Non E.U requirements. I still haven't been able to get clarification on whether the €26,500 income needed is before or after tax and no definitive as per the lump sum on deposit apart from the Canadian I know and he had to show €50k average in account for previous six months. But as we all know different requirements at different offices. I hope when we need to apply for the T.I.E there is a link to a Spanish Gov site showing a clear and definitive list.....:fingerscrossed:


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## Glynb (Oct 6, 2016)

There is a system in place especially to cover people like me who have no employment, but aren't state pensioners, called Convenio Especial. It's that which we're planning to join. About 70 euros a month.

We need to have paid into this, THEN to apply for Residencia. We have been on the 'Padron' for over 12 months, so hopefully should qualify.

What I didn't know is what they'd be looking for on these bank statements.


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## Glynb (Oct 6, 2016)

Barriej said:


> Agreed, cause if its easy to get on the Spanish system Im going to save €3000 next year when we move over.


There is a system in place called Convenio Especial. It's that which we're planning to join. About 70 euros a month. It's aimed at inbetweeners, those people who arent in receipt of a state pension, and also aren't in employment. Pensioners would get healthcare by getting the S1 form, workers by paying in to the state sytem via PAYE (or whatever the Spanish equivalent is).

As I'm a newbie I need to get up to five posts in this forum, then I can post a link to it.

Also we have been registered on the local 'Padron' for over 12 months, which is evidence that we have been in Spain.

So once you move over and have a fixed address get yourselves registered at the Town Hall on the Padron ASAP, it doesn't cost anything, but shows you are committed to Spain.

We will be going to Alicante in the New Year when we're back in Spain. If we manage to get onto the State Health system via Convenio Especial I'll report back and let you know.


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## Barriej (Jul 23, 2012)

Glynb said:


> There is a system in place called Convenio Especial. It's that which we're planning to join. About 70 euros a month. It's aimed at inbetweeners, those people who arent in receipt of a state pension, and also aren't in employment. Pensioners would get healthcare by getting the S1 form, workers by paying in to the state sytem via PAYE (or whatever the Spanish equivalent is).
> 
> As I'm a newbie I need to get up to five posts in this forum, then I can post a link to it.
> 
> ...


I think you might be wrong there. Being on the Padron does not make you resident. In fact you can only get a temporary Padron certificate that covers you while you apply for residence. Then you are supposed to go back to the Council and show them the residence paperwork. then it becomes permanent.

Your Padron cert must be less than 3 months old when going for Residence.

I might be wrong and I would be happy to be proved wrong. But the paperwork I have from our solicitors states that early retirees and people not working or in receipt of the S1 MUST have private health care.


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

Glynb said:


> There is a system in place called Convenio Especial. It's that which we're planning to join. About 70 euros a month. It's aimed at inbetweeners, those people who arent in receipt of a state pension, and also aren't in employment. Pensioners would get healthcare by getting the S1 form, workers by paying in to the state sytem via PAYE (or whatever the Spanish equivalent is).
> 
> As I'm a newbie I need to get up to five posts in this forum, then I can post a link to it.
> 
> ...


It would be great if that’s the case but being on the padrón in not the same as being resident in Spain for a year. It does not show you are committed to Spain, being resident shows commitment. Also, the padrón is only for residents, non residents shouldn’t be on the padrón?

Why non-residents shouldnâ€™t be on the padrÃ³n - Cervantes Alarcon Consulting


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

Glynb said:


> There is a system in place especially to cover people like me who have no employment, but aren't state pensioners, called Convenio Especial. It's that which we're planning to join. About 70 euros a month.
> 
> We need to have paid into this, THEN to apply for Residencia. We have been on the 'Padron' for over 12 months, so hopefully should qualify.
> 
> What I didn't know is what they'd be looking for on these bank statements.


To go onto the Convenio Especial, you need to have been legally resident for over 12 months.

This usually means; have signed on the list of foreigners (aka got residency), been on the padron and even (maybe) be known to hacienda (done a tax return).


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## NickZ (Jun 26, 2009)

blondebob said:


> Non E.U requirements. I still haven't been able to get clarification on whether the €26,500 income


Isn't that the visa amount and not the residence amount?

Under EU laws I don't think Spain can use a different number for residence for EU and non EU.


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## Tigerlillie (Apr 7, 2015)

NickZ said:


> Isn't that the visa amount and not the residence amount?
> 
> Under EU laws I don't think Spain can use a different number for residence *for EU* and *non EU*.


Of course it can, immigration law in each member State has nothing to do with the EU except when it comes to immigration between EU states.

And not to cast aspersions but it would seem to me that the OP has been living in Spain illegally for the past however long as they have said they have been in Spain over 12 months and have not applied for residency before and have no health insurance.


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## blondebob (Aug 16, 2019)

NickZ;15014036[B said:


> ]Isn't that the visa amount and not the residence amount[/B]?
> 
> Under EU laws I don't think Spain can use a different number for residence for EU and non EU.


It the annual income required for a NON EU citizen to obtain the Non-Lucrative Residence Visa to live in Spain

https://residencies.io/residency/spain/temporary-residency/es6


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## NickZ (Jun 26, 2009)

Residence and immigration aren't the same thing. 

Immigration you'd assume needs to meet the Schengen zone rules. 

Residence is limited by the EU wide laws. 

So neither is really totally controlled local government.


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## NickZ (Jun 26, 2009)

blondebob said:


> It the annual income required for a NON EU citizen to obtain the Non-Lucrative Residence Visa to live in Spain
> 
> https://residencies.io/residency/spain/temporary-residency/es6


That's what I thought. That amount is for the visa.


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

Tigerlillie said:


> Of course it can, immigration law in each member State has nothing to do with the EU except when it comes to immigration between EU states.
> 
> And not to cast aspersions but it would seem to me that the OP has been living in Spain illegally for the past however long as they have said they have been in Spain over 12 months and have not applied for residency before and have no health insurance.





> We will be going to Alicante in the New Year when we're back in Spain. If we manage to get onto the State Health system via Convenio Especial I'll report back and let you know.


I thought that original, but as they’re returning to Spain in the new year I’m a tad confused. I have no idea how the padrón is related to residency and it’s worrying that OP has this information and I’m hoping i and others are wrong but........


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## Phil Squares (Jan 13, 2017)

Under EU law each country is entitled to put additional requirements on citizens both EU and Non-EU citizens for residency. For example, the UK has no requirement for EU citizens to prove income or health care, but yet there is a financial requirement for their own citizens to allow a non-EU resident to enter based on a relationship with the UK citizen. 

For an EU citizen to move to Spain and obtain residence, the figure is somewhere around 7-8,000 Euros/year for each person, medical coverage with no deductible (excess) and a much higher figure for non-EU citizens

To echo what other people are saying, you have to show up with insurance or confirmation from your government of an agreement on health insurance, similar to the UK S-1 system. After you have lived here for a year then you can purchase the Spanish healthcare. However, be aware, not all provinces offer that coverage at this time.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Glynb said:


> There is a system in place especially to cover people like me who have no employment, but aren't state pensioners, called Convenio Especial. It's that which we're planning to join. About 70 euros a month.
> 
> We need to have paid into this, THEN to apply for Residencia. We have been on the 'Padron' for over 12 months, so hopefully should qualify.
> 
> What I didn't know is what they'd be looking for on these bank statements.


It's a very confusing basket of things...

You can only register on the "padrón" if you are living in Spain/ resident. If you are not resident you are not eligible to sign on.
After 90 days you are required to legalise your situation by applying to be registered on register of EU citizens in Spain which I suppose is what you're trying to do now.
Here is some info from the UK government about living in Spain that may help you (or confuse you more than ever!)
https://healthcareinspain.eu/living-in-spain/


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## nigele2 (Dec 25, 2009)

Pesky Wesky said:


> It's a very confusing basket of things...
> 
> You can only register on the "padrón" if you are living in Spain/ resident. If you are not resident you are not eligible to sign on.
> After 90 days you are required to legalise your situation by applying to be registered on register of EU citizens in Spain which I suppose is what you're trying to do now.
> ...


And they have the nerve to call it 'FREE movement'


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Pesky Wesky said:


> It's a very confusing basket of things...
> 
> You can only register on the "padrón" if you are living in Spain/ resident. If you are not resident you are not eligible to sign on.


Some ayuntamientos DO allow you to go on the padrón if you own property in the town. Ours does. And some extranjerias want to see the padrón certificate before granting residencia. 

Confusing doesn't begin to describe it ...


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## Juan C (Sep 4, 2017)

As said, some town halls used to encourage one to register on their Padrón even if they only had a holiday property in the town. Their incentive was that they get a subsidy from central government for people so registered. However, legally one is only allowed to register on the padron if they are resident in the town. The padron is the list of residents one owners !

One town hall which used to encourage holiday property owners to register, now are insisting one must be resident in the town. So if one has their main residence anywhere in the world outside the town, they cannot register on their padron


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## Love Karma (Oct 10, 2018)

Juan C said:


> As said, some town halls used to encourage *one* to register on their Padrón even if they only had a holiday property in the town. Their incentive was that they get a subsidy from central government for people so registered. However, legally *one *is only allowed to register on the padron if they are resident in the town. The padron is the list of residents *one* owners !
> 
> *One* town hall which used to encourage holiday property owners to register, now are insisting *one *must be resident in the town. So if *one* has their main residence anywhere in the world outside the town, they cannot register on their padron


But what if its a "couple"


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## Glynb (Oct 6, 2016)

Juan C said:


> As said, some town halls used to encourage one to register on their Padrón even if they only had a holiday property in the town. Their incentive was that they get a subsidy from central government for people so registered. However, legally one is only allowed to register on the padron if they are resident in the town. The padron is the list of residents one owners !
> 
> One town hall which used to encourage holiday property owners to register, now are insisting one must be resident in the town. So if one has their main residence anywhere in the world outside the town, they cannot register on their padron


Yes this is/was OUR situation. We were encouraged to be on the Padron as the Town benefits the more people it has registered. Someone from the Town Hall actually came to the house and asked us. We have not lived in Spain permanently, until now, though we've owned a property for three years. Brexit has simply made getting Residencia soon a higher priority than it otherwise would have been as we want the security and assurance. 

One big concern is that the income you will need to show per individual in order to get Residencia after the Uk leaves the EU will be much higher, similar to what Canadians and Americans must show. We can't match that on our limited private means, so need to get Residencia now while we still qualify. 

It appears we were misinformed regarding the Convenio Especial (getting onto the Spanish State health system) - it is in fact necessary to have been an official Resident (to have full Residencia) for a year before applying, it's one of the conditions. Merely being on the Padron is not sufficient. So we will need to buy a years worth of private medical cover (circa 230 euros a month for a couple), then next year we will apply to join the State system (about 70 euros a month each).

We can get a medical insurance certificate via email to take with us to the Residencia meeting next week. 

Thank you for all the replies, sorry if I've confused anyone or raised false hopes.


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## Glynb (Oct 6, 2016)

Here's a link to the Convenio Especial explaining the conditions. If you open it in Google Chrome, you can translate it to English.

https://www.gva.es/es/inicio/procedimientos?id_proc=17044&id_page=&id_site#p_5


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## Glynb (Oct 6, 2016)

*Third time lucky - YES!!!!*

Cava cork will be popping tonight, finally got Residencia on third trip to Alicante.

The second visit we had paid for the private Health Insurance with AXA, but we only had the basic Certificate with us. She wanted to see all the conditions of the policy, which hadn't yet arrived 

So we booked the third appointment, this time taking along every single damned document we could get from AXA (our insurance providers), plus a new bank statement showing that the money had left our account and gone to AXA.

Our meeting was at 9:20 in Alicante. Once Residency is granted, the procedure is they tell you to come back after lunch to pick up your residency card. So we had to kick our heels in Alicante for a couple of hours, had lunch, then returned to the office and waited to collect the hard earned prize...the Green card 

Only fly in the ointment was my other half (German national, but has lived in UK for decades) was refused on grounds that she came along with me on the special 'UK only appointments'. Though the clerk at least checked all her documentation and said everything was in order, other than coming on the wrong meeting. The next meeting for her is not available for her in Benidorm until April! By then all her bank statements will be history and she'll need to renew them 

If anyone else is in a similar position (ie not old enough to be a UK State Pensioner and not an Employee here in Spain) and wants any more information on my experience by all means ask questions here. 

You can do it yourself without a Gestor as we did, but knowing a little Spanish is definitely preferable. And employing a Gestor might have saved us two extra trips to Alicante!

Now the next thing is exchanging my UK driving licence for a Spanish one BEFORE THE BREXIT DEADLINE of January 31st!!! Apparently if you don't have your application in the system before the end of January, it might be necessary to take a Spanish driving test :confused2:

Anyway, that's another thread.


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## Glynb (Oct 6, 2016)

Epilogue:
My wife (German national) got her Residencia yesterday.

Originally she booked an appointment in Alicante with me and although her documentation was all in order and exactly the same as mine, was refused as she'd booked one of the extra 'Brits only due to brexit' meetings (she'd lived in UK over 30 years). I got mine.

Ok, bit annoying but at least all the paperwork was checked by the official and found to be correct. So we booked her another appointment, this time in Denia, as it was a bit closer to where we live, after all it shouldn't make any difference where you go, right?

Not so.
The official in Denia insisted that there should be an extra 'Health Certificate' (in addition to the Certificate we provided) and that our insurtance company would know all about it. Residencia Refused. 

My wife told the official that her husband had already been granted Residencia with the *exact same paperwork* in Alicante. She wasn't for budging!

Contacted our Health Insurance company. They say there is no such certificate in existence, and we have all the documentation we are ever going to get! By this stage we're thinking we need to cancel the insurance as they promised it was suffucient to gain Residencia and it apparently wasn't, because the documentation was defective - ie not what the officials are wanting!

In the mean time a new batch of appointments becomes available in Alicante for non-Brits. So we take one, on the basis that as I was accepted there and maybe my wife will be by presenting the same documentation.

Sure enough, she was! (the official asked for a few extra photocopies this time, but there's a cafe nearby with a copier, no problem).

So here's an actual example of officials at one office asking for something that another office aren't asking for.

I do wonder if smaller offices are more sticklers than the bigger cities where they deal woith a lot more cases?

The lesson seems to be if you are sure you have all the correct documentation in place and are refused at one office repeatedly, try somewhere else, you might have more luck.


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## Juan C (Sep 4, 2017)

From experience, I would have said if you were sure you were right, you should have demanded the complaints forms. Even with the police they work wonders. I have done it several times without it failing.

Although booking as U.K. national was your error

When U.K. nationals do not use that facility they are refused processing and must return having booked correctly.


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## MataMata (Nov 30, 2008)

Glynb said:


> after all it shouldn't make any difference where you go, right?


Wrong! 

Surely one of the very first things you learn about Spanish bureaucracy and that it can reach as far down as individuals and even their mood of the precise moment!


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Glynb said:


> Epilogue:
> My wife (German national) got her Residencia yesterday.
> 
> Originally she booked an appointment in Alicante with me and although her documentation was all in order and exactly the same as mine, was refused as she'd booked one of the extra 'Brits only due to brexit' meetings (she'd lived in UK over 30 years). I got mine.
> ...


It's because each office has to _interpret_ the rules, not just _follow_ them, so there will be differences, unfortunately.
I think you have every right to be unhappy about the service you have received, but that's not going to make any difference, again unfortunately.
It's one of those things that you have to get over, move on from, and chalk it up to experience.
Recently I have come into an inheritance. Surely I'm not the only English person, resident in Spain to have inherited? Well, they are a little flummoxed as to what to do. It seems an appointment in Madrid is needed... Luckily OH is Spanish and is off work ATM so he's looking after it...


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

So did you get a TIE card or just a small green laminate?


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

Ahhh.. your wife is german so no TIE . My mistake


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## Alinaga (Sep 11, 2017)

Just curious about the residence in one's home country in the case of obtaining one in Spain. Have we first obtain the residence in Spain, and then proceed to renounce an old one?


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Alinaga said:


> Just curious about the residence in one's home country in the case of obtaining one in Spain. Have we first obtain the residence in Spain, and then proceed to renounce an old one?


I don't know about Norway, but there is no requirement to renounce residency in the UK. You just have to tell all the relevant agencies your new address.


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## Barriej (Jul 23, 2012)

Alinaga said:


> Just curious about the residence in one's home country in the case of obtaining one in Spain. Have we first obtain the residence in Spain, and then proceed to renounce an old one?


Here in the UK you are required to inform the tax man and the department for work and pensions that you are no longer a Uk resident. Something I doubt many have done.


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## Alinaga (Sep 11, 2017)

Thanks for your replies! Yes, it is the same in Norway (organizations). Just wonder if Spain asks about the availability of residence elsewhere, before it starts considering your documents.


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## Barriej (Jul 23, 2012)

Alinaga said:


> Thanks for your replies! Yes, it is the same in Norway (organizations). Just wonder if Spain asks about the availability of residence elsewhere, before it starts considering your documents.


Good question. I don't think it cares, as long as you have the paperwork to prove you can be a resident in Spain.


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## Glynb (Oct 6, 2016)

kaipa said:


> Ahhh.. your wife is german so no TIE . My mistake


I didn't get a TIE either, just a small green card. Apparently the TIE comes later when you have been here five years (?) 

Glad we sorted this before the lockdown with the clock still ticking on the transition period, I guess it would be impossible to pursue Residencia at the moment?

Next battle will be to get on to the cheeper and more comprehensive Valenciana health system and sack off the expensive private health insurance with its exclusions. But that has to wait till toward the end of the year.


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## Juan C (Sep 4, 2017)

TIE’s are only required by non EU nationals. EU national get the green paper EU citizen’s registration certificate. That must be renewed after five years, when a green certificate which has no expiry date.

Of course assuming Brexit happens then U.K. nationals will then become non EU nationals and will require a Tarjeta de Identidad Extranjera. (TIE). At present no one knows what the process for that will be. The aaTIE has an initial validity of 5 year when it must be renewed. It is then renewable every 10 years.

However Glyn as the spouse of an EU national, you will be in a slightly different situation and will need to replace your green certificate with a TIE. My wife is a non EU national.


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

Juan C said:


> TIE’s are only required by non EU nationals. EU national get the green paper EU citizen’s registration certificate. That must be renewed after five years, when a green certificate which has no expiry date.
> 
> *Of course assuming Brexit happens* then U.K. nationals will then become non EU nationals and will require a Tarjeta de Identidad Extranjera. (TIE). At present no one knows what the process for that will be. The aaTIE has an initial validity of 5 year when it must be renewed. It is then renewable every 10 years.
> 
> However Glyn as the spouse of an EU national, you will be in a slightly different situation and will need to replace your green certificate with a TIE. My wife is a non EU national.


As far as I was aware, Brexit has already happened. Article 50 cannot now be revoked.

There is a slim possibilty that the transition period is extended beyond 31st December, but let's be honest with ourselves. The UK is no longer a member of the EU and there is no turning back.


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## Juan C (Sep 4, 2017)

OK. Just in case anyone else also failed to understand

No one knows exactly what will be required of U.K. nationals who are legally resident in the EU will be required to do when the transition period expires. Also at this this time no one knows for certain if the tradition period will end on 31st December, 2020, covid19 or something else might affect that

However it is probable they will be treated exactly as non EU nationals who apply for residence are now


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

Juan C said:


> TIE’s are only required by non EU nationals. EU national get the green paper EU citizen’s registration certificate. That must be renewed after five years, when a green certificate which has no expiry date.


Just to clarify. The existing green card does NOT have an expiry date and does NOT need to be renewed after 5 years.

People can, if they wish, renew it after 5 years so that it states 'permanent' - purely a personal choice.


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## Juan C (Sep 4, 2017)

I do not say this to be argumentative but I know first hand, since the green certificate replaced the plastic TIE card in April 2007, that everyone who has my nearby CNP as the office they must use, has been obliged to ‘renew’ their green paper certificate after the first five years, albeit no date was ever shown on it. 

Following that it had no expiry date. 

I have always been reluctant to say it then lasted forever as things do change . Brexit will now render the green certificate invalid. 

I do not want to be dogmatic about how the system works because I understand some Extranjerias interpret the rules differently and thus do not require renewal after five years. 

I also see that as logical as the certificate does not show an expiry date. But logic is not always that apparent with officialdom anywhere .


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## MataMata (Nov 30, 2008)

Always remembering that how things are done in one autonomous region is not necessarily the same in another


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## Randy&Kathy (Feb 11, 2019)

MataMata said:


> Wrong!
> 
> Surely one of the very first things you learn about Spanish bureaucracy and that it can reach as far down as individuals and even their mood of the precise moment!


This is something our Spanish lawyer stated when we met with him. Even the most reasonable official may just be in a bad mood that day.


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## Juan C (Sep 4, 2017)

Randy&Kathy said:


> MataMata said:
> 
> 
> > Wrong!
> ...


Yep sounds like the excuses I have heard from time to time from professionals who don’t quite cut the mustard. Blame the others when they foul up hoping their clients will believe it.


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## Williams2 (Sep 15, 2013)

Glynb said:


> I didn't get a TIE either, just a small green card. Apparently the TIE comes later when you have been here five years (?)
> 
> Glad we sorted this before the lockdown with the clock still ticking on the transition period, I guess it would be impossible to pursue Residencia at the moment?
> 
> Next battle will be to get on to the cheeper and more comprehensive Valenciana health system and sack off the expensive private health insurance with its exclusions. But that has to wait till toward the end of the year.


I'm a British citizen been living and working ( perm ) in Spain for over 7 years now.
Moved aparment in January from a seaside town to the city, went 'on the Padron'
pronto on the first day I received the keys to my new apartment.
Also went to the Foreigners office in Oviedo within a week to get the green card
address changed to my new address in Oviedo; to which the 'Foreigners office' said
No - all they would do is let me fill in a form to say what my new address is and
thats it, as they say I can still use my Green permanente card for id even though the home
address is wrong.

So no new Green card - to which I was disappointed because the day I moved
was a couple of weeks before the UK left the EU on the 31st January and there's
no TIE card for me either, so I assume I remain in this position until the
transition period ends.

In the meantime - thanks to this I could 'get away' with a trip to the seaside, as
GC Plod will be none the wiser, as my card has me still at my former seaside town 
address. Thats not far away from Oviedo anyway.
Not that I will do that anyway, during the lockdown but GC Plod will be none the wiser 
going from the address on my Green card.


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## Juan C (Sep 4, 2017)

Couple of things. The green certificate is not ID it even hasthat printed on it 

You should have been able to replace the Certificate so that it shows your current address. 

As you have registered on the padron the authorities can of course locate you on that alone, You say you also filled in a form showing your new address, so that is on your record, and of course there are other MO ‘s by which you could be traced too

U.K. Nationals will not be issued with a TIE until the transition periods ends, and even then there is a period built into the agreement to allow that to happen. I think it is six months,

And just in passing. If the use of the term Plod is intended as disrespectful, that is an offence in spain. People who have been disrespectful in connection with the issue of fines during the lockdown I have read, have been fined for that. Just a word to the wise.

From :-

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www....ed-for-disrespecting-police-under-gag-law/amp

Extract :-

Data from the Spanish Interior Ministry obtained through a petition by El Diario shows that police fined 6,217 people as of this January for showing "lack of respect to security forces" since the law went into effect last year.


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