# At my wits' end. (letting some steam out)



## Rumen (9 mo ago)

Hello everyone,

I know nobody likes people who complain but I just didn't know who I could share my frustration with, so decided to post it here. It's a bit of a wall of text but so far I've had such a horrible experience in Spain and just wanted to share. Here goes:

I’m Bulgarian and my wife is Spanish. We met some 20 years ago while both working in Ireland. Shortly after we met we decided to go to Spain (from Ireland) and try to get a job there.

As this was quite a few years before Bulgaria became part of the EU it was very difficult for me to find any type of legal employment. So after getting married and spending only a few months in Spain, my wife and I decided to try our luck in Scotland. This was in January 2004.

As I was now a spouse of an EU citizen I was allowed to work freely in Scotland (and the UK in general). So we each got a job, rented a flat and whole 16 years went by.
At the end of 2020 we decided to say goodbye to Scotland and come to and live in Spain. As nearly 2 decades had gone by, we thought that things in Spain would’ve changed for the better by now. What a naive thought... Things had changed, but for the worse!!

As soon as we arrived in Spain I decided to go to the local police station and renew my NIE. Here the problems started. I was told that the old form of NIE has been changed at least a decade ago, and now there is a new one. To get that new type of NIE, I now had to prove that I had a minimum of 5.000 Euro in a European bank, that I had a PRIVATE medical insurance and I also had to pay the tax for issuing my new NIE.

Immediately I pulled out my phone, logged into my Bank of Scotland online banking app and showed them that I had well over the required 5.000 Euro in my bank account. As soon as I did this the clerk told me that “this doesn’t count” due to the Brexit... According to her "Bank of Scotland" wasn’t a “European” bank and suggested I opened a bank account in a Spanish bank.

The very same day I went to a local branch of BBVA and told them that I wanted to open a bank account so I could transfer my savings from Scotland to Spain. I was immediately asked to show them my NIE, which had expired some 15 years ago (and thus being the whole reason that I was there in the first place), only to be told that I could not use it as it had expired. 

So in order to open a bank account they wanted a valid NIE, but to get a NIE I needed a bank account.... Welcome to the “Land of bureaucracy” and impossible, endless loops.

I explained my situation to the lady in the bank and she told me she could use a loop in their system and open some “temporary” bank account using my Bulgarian passport so I could pay the “private medical insurance” required by the police. And she tells me they offer a health insurance. So I agree. 

I’m finally going to the police station with all of my paperwork, and now I am being told that the medical insurance sold to me by the BBVA employee was not a “comprehensive one” and that I needed to pay the full quote rather than some lower quote or whatever...

Going back to the bank I am told that I could NOT change or cancel the policy as it had already started... So I had now basically signed up to pay 46 Euro a month for a whole year for no good reason whatsoever, and without the possibility to terminate or change my contract.

Another 3 weeks later and after numerous visits, the local police were so fed up with me that they decided to agree and issue my NIE.

Now that I finally had that wretched document (NIE) I went to try and register in the local alternative of “job centre”. Here I have to open a bracket to explain one extra detail:
Before departing from Scotland I visited to the official UK government website to find out what could I do for the first few months in Spain until I found a job? It clearly stated that I was entitled to 2 years employment benefits (paro) by presenting a form U1. I requested the U1 form and received it by post a few weeks later.

So I thought to myself – now that I have a NIE and the U1 form I could at least apply for some job seeker allowance (paro) until I found a job. Well... almost, but no cigar!
I had to send 3 emails (1 month apart) applying for some financial help and I didn’t get a single reply. Due to the COVID-19 pandemic at the time there was no way for me to physically talk in person to any of the jobcentre employees.

Eventually things got a little better with the COVID-19 situation and I managed to get an appointment to visit the local jobcentre. There I was told that I was NOT entitled to any type of financial help until I haven’t worked at least a single day in Spain. I tried phoning the UK asking about a clarification or some help but they pretty much washed their hands, and told me it wasn’t their problem. So I was now living in Spain for 7 months with literally zero income.

One day my phone rang and I was offered a cleaning job in some local company. They told me they needed me to cover for a guy who was off sick for an “undetermined period of time”. I was very excited to finally get a job...only for the said guy to reappear to work only 4 days later. So there we go. After 7 months with no job I managed to get employed for whole 4 days and on a part time, temporary contract.

At least I could apply for jobseeker allowance now, I thought. And I was right... but guess how much they said my “paro” was going to be?? 463 Euro... A MONTH! And this after having worked for 16 straight years in the UK, and without having claimed a single penny of any type of benefit. My last wages before I left Scotland were 1.700 Euro. And now they are giving me 463?!! Are you out of your mind?

So I eventually came across another job ad and was offered the position, but now the employer is asking me for a “certificado de delitos sexuales”, or what we call PVG in the UK. No problems I say – trying to get it online and they are asking me for “[email protected]” – some nonsense “unified “access key. It says if you don’t have one to click here to register.
So I try to register and I get a message that there is some type of error and they cannot issue this “[email protected]” online and that I have to make an appointment and get it done in some local office.

I make an appointment, go the said office and after 20 minutes of attempts the clerk tells me that there is some error and that she doesn’t know what to do... And asks me to get another appointment with another office in the hopes that they could solve the problem for me.

It just never seems to end for me.


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## ccm47 (Oct 15, 2013)

You have my sympathies, foreign bureaucracy can be a nightmare. Just one comment Job Seeker's Allowance in the UK is £77 per week and that would be lot your lot if your wife has found a job.


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## tebo53 (Sep 18, 2014)

I can't understand why you had to prove income or have a Spanish bank account etc to apply for an NIE...

An NIE can be obtained from the Spanish consulate in Scotland or other parts of the UK quite easily without proof of income or requiring a Spanish bank account......

Steve


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## Barriej (Jul 23, 2012)

tebo53 said:


> I can't understand why you had to prove income or have a Spanish bank account etc to apply for an NIE...
> 
> An NIE can be obtained from the Spanish consulate in Scotland or other parts of the UK quite easily without proof of income or requiring a Spanish bank account......
> 
> Steve


I think the OP has mistaken NIE for the TIE which Im assuming they wanted them to apply for. 
Because as such the NIE does not need renewing as its just a number not proof of anything.
Also does an NIE on its own give you right to work?
Also for a non residents account passport and address ID are all that is required.
€5000 would have been about right for the requirements at the end of the withdrawal period. 
We had to show €9000 to Alicante for ours.

To be honest I thing the OP has been taken advantage of by various peoples, maybe due to a lack of knowledge *BUT as his wife is Spanish, would it not have been a good idea to have had her input and to accompany him?*

Im sort of leaning towards this being a 'Spain bashing' thread in disguise and anything said here may well find its way into some sleazy newspaper.
If its a true recount then, I'm sorry...


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

Unfortunately you have had to take a bite out of "the reality " of Spain. Basically you have found the system harsh and uncaring and that is unfortunate for you. Most UK nationals move here with either comfortable funds or pensions. The vast majority do not come with little in the hope of finding employment. Here in Spain the reality is that many many people are unemployed. The benefits you received or could receive in the UK are simply not available in Spain. The idea of receiving money while you look for a job is unheard of here, as is government assistance on rents, tax credits etc. Spain is tough. Most survive by living with family and pooling resources to get by. Its is no good complaining in that it wont change how things are done here. I remember before Brexit teaching young Spanish folk in UK and how totally freaked out they were that they got jobseeker's allowance and could study at college for free! For them that was Christmas. I'm not sure what your plans are but if you living off only 5 000 euros you wont last long and unless you have Spanish language and a good skill-set I very much doubt you get anywhere. Perhaps best to head back to UK where at the moment they are crying out for employees and the job market has never been better


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## tebo53 (Sep 18, 2014)

Yes I agree about it being the start of a Spain bashing thread. The Spanish systems are truly mind blowing at times but if you go about it in an orderly manner and have all paperwork ready and in order it can work out fine. I engaged a solicitor to help and accompany me on official visits to get all documents ready and presented. NIE, TIE, Padron etc all done with no bother.

Steve


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

It's very important to remember that often people are frustrated by various things in Spain simply because they constantly want to compare them with the UK and also if you dont speak Spanish it's very difficult to navigate and understand completely what is happening. I know people who say the Spanish are rude because they think they dont respond in a suitable way but often what happens is that a Brit says something in English and the Spanish person doesn't understand and maybe says something in Spanish ( which might be delivered in a way that the Brit thinks is fast and therefore ithinks is impolite) and after that there is nothing they can do but shrug their shoulders or point ( again the Brit interrupts this as rude). It is not , it is what happens when neither side can communicate sufficiently well enough. I dont know why people insist on doing official stuff without an interpreter. I was in Alicante a few months ago getting my TIE at the oficina de extranjería and there was a British woman holding everyone up because she couldn't read the instructions on the machine you use to register you have arrived for your appointment. She was complaining loudly that it didn't work and basically kept putting in all the wrong numbers etc. Everyone was trying to be patient with her but she was so hysterical that eventually someone asked her to move out of the way and told her to talk to the officer at the door. She refused and kept saying it was broken. Then an officer came over and she had to deal with him so the rest of the queue managed to move. But that is the kind of thing that shouldn't happen.


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## Tucsonsteve (Mar 26, 2013)

tebo53 said:


> Yes I agree about it being the start of a Spain bashing thread. The Spanish systems are truly mind blowing at times but if you go about it in an orderly manner and have all paperwork ready and in order it can work out fine. I engaged a solicitor to help and accompany me on official visits to get all documents ready and presented. NIE, TIE, Padron etc all done with no bother.
> 
> Steve


Yeah, but:

Here in BCN, it takes hour upon hour to get the appointments needed to accomplish these tasks or you have pay someone to secure the appointment for you. I got the appointments on my own and would have been cool with trying to get all the paperwork ready myself were it not that a failure to have everything in order risked having to secure more appointments months out. I had the money and hired a lawyer to maximize my chances of success, but there are many earning low wages sweating these issues and who can’t afford a solicitor. Some people’s livelihoods depend on getting these things done, but even securing an appointment is a problem. That’s a problem with the bureaucracy, not the individual.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

There seems to be a common theme in this tale which we see quite often. That is that the UK authorities told me that xxxx would happen in Spain, or the UK authorities told me I would be eligible for xxxx in Spain. 

The lesson learnt for anyone reading this is clear. Don't believe anything about your rights in Spain unless it is coming from Spain. 

You cannot usually get any job seeking allowance, you do have to pay tax on worldwide income, you are not getting free health care from the Spanish SS, etc.


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## Eliora (Apr 20, 2020)

Spain was more difficult than other european countries like Italy, France and Portugal where for us things went smoother. We got through the initial hoops within a few weeks in Spain for the house rental, bank account, internet and utilities. Then we went for an appointment for the health insurance. It was so expensive even though we have no health problems or required medicines! We hung around enjoying Spain as long as possible. In the end even though we had the financial requirements to stay we just didn't want to pay the eyewatering cost of medical insurance for years when we have so little use for it. We moved on.
I would have thought that being married to a Spanish person things would be easier for you though, from your rough experience it seems not. Hope it gets sorted so you can settle.


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## RickES (Jan 26, 2021)

Eliora said:


> Spain was more difficult than other european countries like Italy, France and Portugal where for us things went smoother. We got through the initial hoops within a few weeks in Spain for the house rental, bank account, internet and utilities. Then we went for an appointment for the health insurance. It was so expensive even though we have no health problems or required medicines! We hung around enjoying Spain as long as possible. In the end even though we had the financial requirements to stay we just didn't want to pay the eyewatering cost of medical insurance for years when we have so little use for it. We moved on.
> I would have thought that being married to a Spanish person things would be easier for you though, from your rough experience it seems not. Hope it gets sorted so you can settle.


Interesting thought on medical insurance premiums. We are anxious to get to Spain so we can pay the amount we pay in the US for 2 months and be covered for an entire year, with better coverage.


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

We always found the cost of health insurance in Spain surprisingly reasonable. We had private health insurance for 12 years of our 16 in Spain, cancelled the policy at the end of 2020 as by then we were assured of continuing coverage in the public health system via S1s from the UK, had tried out the public system in 2019/2020 and found it more than satisfactory. We were 59 and 53 when we first took out our policy, with no pre-existing conditions at that time. 12 years later our premiums had risen to €75 per month each (no co-payments, deductible or exclusions) and the company had paid for my mitral valve repair surgery in 2018 (and a multitude of tests and consultations leading up to it), plus 8 days in intensive care after it as well as another 3 days in a normal hospital room. That must have cost more than the total of the premiums I had paid them.


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## Localizer (Jun 23, 2016)

Lynn R said:


> We always found the cost of health insurance in Spain surprisingly reasonable. We had private health insurance for 12 years of our 16 in Spain, cancelled the policy at the end of 2020 as by then we were assured of continuing coverage in the public health system via S1s from the UK, had tried out the public system in 2019/2020 and found it more than satisfactory. We were 59 and 53 when we first took out our policy, with no pre-existing conditions at that time. 12 years later our premiums had risen to €75 per month each (no co-payments, deductible or exclusions) and the company had paid for my mitral valve repair surgery in 2018 (and a multitude of tests and consultations leading up to it), plus 8 days in intensive care after it as well as another 3 days in a normal hospital room. That must have cost more than the total of the premiums I had paid them.


...... Have to agree with this sentiment; albeit in our case without pre-exisiting conditions apart from a little piece of metal in a shoulder and a keyhole surgery on a joint three years previously, our medical insurance costs in Spain were less than 30% of the cost of our final policy in the UK with SAGA on a like for like basis.


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## tomwins (Dec 27, 2014)

I am getting quotes on medical insurance right now. So far I have one. € 1.425,66 annually. For my health insurance in the US, I am paying more than that every 3 months and I have co-pays as it is over $6,600 annually. My US friends tell me how great a deal I have. I paid $85 co-pay for an office visit to get my physical so the doctor could sign the paper saying I have no pre-existing conditions.


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