# Care in Spain



## agepage (Oct 15, 2012)

Hi,
My girlfriend and I are currently operating a care company in the UK. We offer support services mainly to the elderly (anything from washing and ironing to emotional support, doctor/hospital visits, preparing meals or just being there for someone). We are thinking about bringing it to the expat community in Spain. My girlfriend has a Spanish degree and is fluent and I have a decent level of conversational. Both of us lived in Spain in 1996. I guess my questions are....
Are these services required in Spain at the moment?
What areas would I be best focussing on....my feeling is Valencia region?


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

It sounds a good idea, I'm not sure about the logistics - ie setting it up, paying the autonomo, taxes etc and at the same time being able to satisfy the authorities that you will have an income and healthcare for yourselves to be able to become residents???? Also whether there would be enough clients who could pay you enough money to make it viable????? I assume that you'd be aiming at the expat market????

Jo xxx


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## agepage (Oct 15, 2012)

Hi Jo,
Thanks for the response. To be honest we would only need 20-25 clients to be viable. It is not that important that we become massive !
My plan is to come out with enough capital to see us through the first 12 months.
We are going to focus on the expat community. I notice you are in Benalmadena, I guess there is a decent number of expats down there. Would it work in your area ?
Adrian x


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

jojo said:


> It sounds a good idea, I'm not sure about the logistics - ie setting it up, paying the autonomo, taxes etc and at the same time being able to satisfy the authorities that you will have an income and healthcare for yourselves to be able to become residents???? Also whether there would be enough clients who could pay you enough money to make it viable????? I assume that you'd be aiming at the expat market????
> 
> Jo xxx


not to mention licences (maybe) & insurance (for sure)


I'm not saying it's not doable - just not as straightforward as you might think

there is one such company in my area - I don't know how much business they get though (not a lot from what I hear) - and there are lots of 'one man band' self-employed people doing it too


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## agepage (Oct 15, 2012)

What is the name of the company?
I notice you are in Javea. That is an area we are looking at?
We are looking at coming out in April/May next year and spending 3/4 months getting the ball rolling so were are ready to go in September.
Ideally we are looking at an expat area but would rather live in a more "Spanish" village nearby. We would need somewhere with a Spanish school for our girl who is 9 and an international school for our boy who is 12.
What do you think ?


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

agepage said:


> Hi Jo,
> Thanks for the response. To be honest we would only need 20-25 clients to be viable. It is not that important that we become massive !
> My plan is to come out with enough capital to see us through the first 12 months.
> We are going to focus on the expat community. I notice you are in Benalmadena, I guess there is a decent number of expats down there. Would it work in your area ?
> Adrian x


I dont know. TBH, most elderly seem to be looked after by their families or friends - or go back to the UK. 

I used to work for a private care agency who sent nurses etc round to look after folk who needed care. I guess it was similar to what you're intending, but with more of an emphasis on qualified nursing care. I dont know if the company are still going - they also owned a couple of private expat care homes. I enjoyed doing the work, altho sometimes it wasnt very well structured - I'd get a call asking me to drop tools and visit someone, with no idea who, why or for how long.

I think this is their link , to give you an idea ??????? Care on the Costa del Sol - Directory of Care services and Facilities

Jo xxx


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

agepage said:


> What is the name of the company?
> I notice you are in Javea. That is an area we are looking at?
> We are looking at coming out in April/May next year and spending 3/4 months getting the ball rolling so were are ready to go in September.
> Ideally we are looking at an expat area but would rather live in a more "Spanish" village nearby. We would need somewhere with a Spanish school for our girl who is 9 and an international school for our boy who is 12.
> What do you think ?


I can't remember tbh - I picked up a leaflet quite a while back when we thought we were going to need some help with my dad - must be 18 months ago - I still see their leaflets around though

there are quite a lot of elderly expats here - although how many of them need help I don't know - the ones I see around clearly don't!


We have several spanish schools in the town (obviously) & a couple of International schools close by


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## agepage (Oct 15, 2012)

Thanks.
Would you know roughly the cost of the international schools near you?


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

agepage said:


> Thanks.
> Would you know roughly the cost of the international schools near you?


the fees are about the same afaik - if I was sending my daughters to International school here it would be this one Welcome to Laude The Lady Elizabeth School


you'll find the fees under the 'Admissions' tab


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Before you get too engrossed in schools etc, you really do need to make sure that you can do this financially and that you can make a profit. I've just spoken to a friend who did some work in that line too and apparently there is so little money in it, after stoppages etc., that it may not be a viable business plan. 

So thats the main issue - the overheads ie, your autonomo payments, tax and insurance payments, permissions and licences to carry out such work legally. Then, as I mentioned earlier you have to prove to the authorities that you have a viable income and healthcare cover before you can become a resident

Its crazy really, spain doesnt help itself with its silly rules on starting businesses. 

Jo xxx


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## Calas felices (Nov 29, 2007)

I also am involved in the running of a number of care homes in the UK and many years ago thought this would be a great idea and that there was a need. So what were the issues? I only ever intended to do it legally and to the NCSC regsa and standards (there appear to be no equivalent in Spain). For a start there is no sliding scale of social security payments in Spain. Initially the business couldn't afford to employ carers on a full time basis (part time seems to be an unknown concept in Spain apart from fruit pickers etc). Add in the number of holiday/fiestas, the 14 monthly payments each year and employing autonomos seemed to be the only route that made economic sense. They would have to pay in excess of €260 a month whatever their hours - so they must do a minimum of 30 hours a month (at €8 ph) to start making money. Add in petrol costs (Spain is a large county) uniforms, telephone costs and then the management costs of office manning, stationery, premises, license, insurance, profit and you can see it starts to get expensive. To be brutally honest I found that those people who need the service couldn't afford it and returned back to their home country and those who couldn't return used a friendly neighbour who was prepared to work on the black for pocket money. Good luck if you can make it work legally. In case you think you might wing it, just imagine what would happen to you if something went wrong and you were sued/prosecuted???


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Calas felices said:


> I also am involved in the running of a number of care homes in the UK and many years ago thought this would be a great idea and that there was a need. So what were the issues? I only ever intended to do it legally and to the NCSC regsa and standards (there appear to be no equivalent in Spain). For a start there is no sliding scale of social security payments in Spain. Initially the business couldn't afford to employ carers on a full time basis (part time seems to be an unknown concept in Spain apart from fruit pickers etc). Add in the number of holiday/fiestas, the 14 monthly payments each year and employing autonomos seemed to be the only route that made economic sense. They would have to pay in excess of €260 a month whatever their hours - so they must do a minimum of 30 hours a month (at €8 ph) to start making money. Add in petrol costs (Spain is a large county) uniforms, telephone costs and then the management costs of office manning, stationery, premises, license, insurance, profit and you can see it starts to get expensive. To be brutally honest I found that those people who need the service couldn't afford it and returned back to their home country and those who couldn't return used a friendly neighbour who was prepared to work on the black for pocket money. Good luck if you can make it work legally. In case you think you might wing it, just imagine what would happen to you if something went wrong and you were sued/prosecuted???


Winging it isnt an easy option anymore, you need to prove an income to get residency and to get the children into a school - to do that, you would need to show a viable business plan and register as an autonomo 

Like I said previously - crazy, for a country that so needs a bit of investment at all levels!

Jo xxx


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## agepage (Oct 15, 2012)

Hi Jo,
Would you mind asking your friend what permissions and licences I would need. In the UK you only need to be licensed if you are carrying out personal care....thats not what we do and there is no need for us to be registered with any governing bodies. We do not administer meds either. I am aware we would need public liability insurance, but we would run it together with possibly 1 memeber of staff so overheads wouldnt be huge.


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## Calas felices (Nov 29, 2007)

You have me confused. You mentioned care and now say you don't provide personal care. If you mean domestic help , then there are thousands willing and doing it. How many are legal is another issue.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Many British immigrants have packed up and gone. Many of the remaining elderly folk are either struggling on low pension incomes and couldn't afford to pay for care or as someone has already said rely on friends and neighbours.

The better-off would most likely be prepared to pay for a higher level of personal nursing and other care or even twenty-four hour attendance.


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## bob_bob (Jan 5, 2011)

Care is still via the extended family for locals and many brits are skint and gone home or may employ a local for €4-€5 an hour a few hours a week to carry out the same duties you mentioned.

If your making a living in the UK then really you should stick with it. Think about it, your 'NI' plus school fees alone are going to hit you at about €12,000 net before you get out of bed and start paying bills and wages.


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