# Single mothers going to England.



## KimberlyInEngland (Oct 3, 2012)

Hi everyone!

I recently just rejoined under a different name, but I have been on Expatforum for quite some time and would love to introduce myself! My name's Kimberly, i'm 28 and from Chicago Illinois and am in the process of attending college for Business/HR Management and am currently 11 weeks pregnant as well. I work for a huge Hotel and am looking to advance with them (they are international), and hopefully get my booty over to England once and for all!

I haven't seen much on the website for single mothers such as myself, but I am wondering if anyone has been in the same situation as me? Single parent getting transferred over to England? Any and all stories would be much appreciated, I'm not even sure where to start off with the search and a little guidance would be great. Thank you everyone for your time and looking forward to getting to know all of you!


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## punktlich02 (Aug 21, 2012)

You might find help at these two sites:

BFP - Due Date March/April 2013 - Part 2 - page 1 - Pregnancy Clubs - Infertility and Fertility Support (should lead you to the forum for your approximate due date)

Product reviews, parenting tips and advice for parents | Mumsnet

Visa issues don't seem to be relevant to you. (One of my daughters is in your situation, but as she has a British passport (but no US health insurance) she simply moved to London and into a flat we own, registered with an NHS practice and is now being cared for. She also signed up for a course with a local college.)

Good luck.


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## KimberlyInEngland (Oct 3, 2012)

I'm a US Citizen and wouldn't plan on making the move until next year after my child is born... I wasn't looking for pregnancy help, but Visa help. I do not have a Visa (only US passport), and currently have a job with an international company that I can move to England with. I wanted to know mainly how I can get the visa for me and my child when the time comes and what that would entail if I am going to be working out there. Thanks though!


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## lovestravel (Apr 9, 2012)

KimberlyInEngland said:


> I'm a US Citizen and wouldn't plan on making the move until next year after my child is born... I wasn't looking for pregnancy help, but Visa help. I do not have a Visa (only US passport), and currently have a job with an international company that I can move to England with. I wanted to know mainly how I can get the visa for me and my child when the time comes and what that would entail if I am going to be working out there. Thanks though!


We are still in the process of this right now. My husband's company is transferring him over to the UK (Tier 2 Intra-company transfer long-term staff). We have learned the hard way on many things so far.

First thing I would do is get in contact with someone in the company that has recently been transferred to the UK. Find out how the process has been for them so far & what they would change.

Find out if the company knows what they are doing in regard to an international move (do they have a full time dedicated staff to handle the process from start to finish or do they hire an outside firm- who do they hire?, etc).

Find out of they hold a current sponsorship license if there are plenty of sponsorships left that they can offer. If they are an A-rated sponsor with more than 1 year left on the license then that is great news. They could essentially sponsor you if they offered you the position.

Give yourself plenty of time for contract negotiations and DO NOT offer to start the job until everything is signed sealed and delivered! Be sure to do plenty of research to make sure the salary is sufficient to equal or better your current living situation. Ask for as much to be paid in stipends as they can since this is tax exempt income unless you want to keep any unspent funds. Ask for professional tax help. Make sure the moving expense is sufficient. Deposits for flats in the UK are far more expensive than the US not to mention the cost of shipping items overseas. Make sure they will offer you private health insurance since you will not be eligible for public healthcare.

If the company is well versed in international moves then they should be able to walk you through every step of the way and make the transition as smooth as possible. Unlike our situation which has been a beat down from the beginning.


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## punktlich02 (Aug 21, 2012)

KimberlyInEngland said:


> I'm a US Citizen and wouldn't plan on making the move until next year after my child is born... I wasn't looking for pregnancy help, but Visa help. I do not have a Visa (only US passport), and currently have a job with an international company that I can move to England with. I wanted to know mainly how I can get the visa for me and my child when the time comes and what that would entail if I am going to be working out there. Thanks though!


It looks, then, as if you don't yet have corporate sponsorship. This forum is great for the details on what documents you need and on status issues. But I think you will find that you need a "piston" (a good French word meaning someone strategically placed who can help you). Most companies seem to sponsor only senior corporate and technical staff, which I gather is in line with UK politics anyway. How confident are you that you can, indeed, move to England with your company? (Of course if it's a major hotel chain and you are the boss's daughter, anything is possible: I know this from the experience of persons close to me.)

I mis-read your posting and thought you were about to study in the UK.

Good luck.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

KimberlyInEngland said:


> I'm a US Citizen and wouldn't plan on making the move until next year after my child is born... I wasn't looking for pregnancy help, but Visa help. I do not have a Visa (only US passport), and currently have a job with an international company that I can move to England with. I wanted to know mainly how I can get the visa for me and my child when the time comes and what that would entail if I am going to be working out there. Thanks though!


You apply under Tier 2 intra-company transfer and your child as your dependant. Provided you qualify for a visa (and you need sponsorship from your employer who needs to be a licensed sponsor with UKBA), your child's visa is almost a formality. 

UK Border Agency | Tier 2 (Intra company transfer)

Now there are practical issues to deal with, and the biggest will be childcare. As your child will be quite young, you need full-time nursery facilities, and it can be quite costly. Full-time nursery place averages around £180 a week, and in Central London it will be around £225. See https://www.moneyadviceservice.org.uk/en/tools/cost-of-childcare-calculator. Plus you have other costs of caring for a child, such as food, clothes, nappies (diapers), equipment (stroller, cot, chair etc). You will be eligible for NHS care for both you and your child, but your employer may throw in private medical insurance. Some employers provide subsidised workplace nurseries. You won't be eligible for any public funds from UK government, such as child benefit, child tax credit etc. 

Make sure your salary package adequately covers all your additional costs.
Do not underestimate the difficulty of bringing up a child alone without your support mechanism, such as family and friends. You will hopefully make friends, but not having your family nearby for support and advice will be a serious handicap.


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## KimberlyInEngland (Oct 3, 2012)

Thank you all so much for your help! This whole visa thing is so confusing and stressful! It looks like I might have to wait until I get a better paying position overseas with this company then. Sad face :*(


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## lovestravel (Apr 9, 2012)

punktlich02 said:


> It looks, then, as if you don't yet have corporate sponsorship. This forum is great for the details on what documents you need and on status issues. But I think you will find that you need a "piston" (a good French word meaning someone strategically placed who can help you). Most companies seem to sponsor only senior corporate and technical staff, which I gather is in line with UK politics anyway. How confident are you that you can, indeed, move to England with your company? (Of course if it's a major hotel chain and you are the boss's daughter, anything is possible: I know this from the experience of persons close to me.)
> 
> I mis-read your posting and thought you were about to study in the UK.
> 
> Good luck.


punktlich is correct. It is very costly for a company to sponsor & move an employee to another country. I don't know all the numbers but I would estimate the amount the company is spending to relocate us to the UK to be close to $100,000 for a 2-5 year time. That's a lot of money IMO just to relocate someone. If the company has done this recently for someone in your similar role or level then it is a real possibility they would do it for you. If the company has job posted online they may list if the position is available to applicants outside of that country.


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## lovestravel (Apr 9, 2012)

KimberlyInEngland said:


> Thank you all so much for your help! This whole visa thing is so confusing and stressful! It looks like I might have to wait until I get a better paying position overseas with this company then. Sad face :*(


Don't give up hope! It took us almost 20 years to make it happen. My huband went to school at Oxford in 96 and has been trying to move over there ever since. Working for a multi-national company that regularly does expats is I think the easiest way.

Do you want to move over for a few years or permanent settlement?


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## KimberlyInEngland (Oct 3, 2012)

Permanent for sure. I don't have any heritage over there, but have been over there 8 times, once for a whole month, and don't know of any way to get over there. I hate that it's one of the hardest countries to get resident status to, and i'm seeing even highly skilled workers are having troubles getting over there too. I don't quite understand the visa process, but so far i've seen the easiest way to get over there is to get married to a native of the country, but I don't have that option right now! lol. It's been my dream since I was a child to live in England, and despite the fact that it's very expensive, I would love to be there now, but I have to wait


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## lovestravel (Apr 9, 2012)

KimberlyInEngland said:


> Permanent for sure. I don't have any heritage over there, but have been over there 8 times, once for a whole month, and don't know of any way to get over there. I hate that it's one of the hardest countries to get resident status to, and i'm seeing even highly skilled workers are having troubles getting over there too. I don't quite understand the visa process, but so far i've seen the easiest way to get over there is to get married to a native of the country, but I don't have that option right now! lol. It's been my dream since I was a child to live in England, and despite the fact that it's very expensive, I would love to be there now, but I have to wait


I sympathize with your situation. Even with marrying someone from england it sounds like it is a long arduous process to become a permanent resident or even citizen.

Once my husband had the opportunity to study at Oxford we always talked about moving our family there but it never did happen while the kids were growing up. Now that they are in college (and 1 finally a full-time working adult yay) we have that opportunity.

Perhaps try when your child is old enough to appreciate it and you are in a higher position in your company and they would be willing to relocate you there?


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

KimberlyInEngland said:


> Permanent for sure. I don't have any heritage over there, but have been over there 8 times, once for a whole month, and don't know of any way to get over there. I hate that it's one of the hardest countries to get resident status to, and i'm seeing even highly skilled workers are having troubles getting over there too. I don't quite understand the visa process, but so far i've seen the easiest way to get over there is to get married to a native of the country, but I don't have that option right now! lol. It's been my dream since I was a child to live in England, and despite the fact that it's very expensive, I would love to be there now, but I have to wait



Its just as hard for Brits to move over to the US! Its not "all that" over here, high unemployment, high cost of living, crowded, miserable weather....... Bide your time and who knows what the future will hold

Jo xxx


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## lovestravel (Apr 9, 2012)

I wish it was easier to move around from one country to another. Too bad we can't just 'trade' with someone who wishes to live in your own country.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

lovestravel said:


> I wish it was easier to move around from one country to another. Too bad we can't just 'trade' with someone who wishes to live in your own country.



I often think that - I read the posts across all of the countries we have forums on and it would so make sense if there was some sort of swap system, somehow

Jo xxx


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

jojo said:


> I often think that - I read the posts across all of the countries we have forums on and it would so make sense if there was some sort of swap system, somehow


That is already possible within EU if you have a passport from one of the member countries. Globally, not much chance of that unless you abolish governments, citizenships and passports, because nationality is bound up with rights and responsibility, including the right to elect a government.

Maybe a tradable nationality?


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## KimberlyInEngland (Oct 3, 2012)

jojo said:


> Its just as hard for Brits to move over to the US! Its not "all that" over here, high unemployment, high cost of living, crowded, miserable weather....... Bide your time and who knows what the future will hold
> 
> Jo xxx




I actually really like that you said that... As John Lennon once said: "Imagine there's no countries." If only it were that easy!


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## lovestravel (Apr 9, 2012)

I would be happy just to trade residency with someone from another country. I'm not ready to give up my us citizenship quite yet. There are a lot of places I want to live but not permanently settle (except Australia of course).


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## ExpatPumpkin (May 30, 2010)

One other issue you need to consider is the father's rights to the child. Is your baby's father involved? Will he sign the necessary paperwork to allow you to take the child out of the US?


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## punktlich02 (Aug 21, 2012)

ExpatPumpkin said:


> One other issue you need to consider is the father's rights to the child. Is your baby's father involved? Will he sign the necessary paperwork to allow you to take the child out of the US?


It is interesting that you raise this issue. The child is not born yet. The mother therefore has (at least in some jurisdictions) the unilateral power to determine the child's domicile (when born) for purposes of The Hague Convention. In general jurisdiction is vested in the courts of the jurisdiction where the child had his or her habitual residence. This may be where the child lived for the prior six months.

I researched this issue a few years ago. The most relevant (U.S.) case I found was Delvoye v. Lee Delvoye v. Lee (in re Delvoye) - It's obviously not binding outside the (U.S.) Third Circuit, but it is well reasoned and it may be persuasive. It concerned a U.S. woman who had a relationship with a Belgian man and, after they broke up, went back to New York with the baby. (I think the case would have been more easily decided had the baby been born in New York, but in any event the court determined that the baby's "habitual residence" was not Belgian.)

Another helpful case report is Mozes v. Mozes (U.S. 9th Circuit) http://bulk.resource.org/courts.gov/c/F3/239/239.F3d.1067.98-56505.html

A current case I am dealing with relates to a (future) single mother where the foetus is the result of IVF from a U.S. sperm bank. Because of British law and policy and the rules of the Human Fertilisation and Embryology Authority UK fertility clinics obtain their genetic material from abroad. The mother will need to document all of this (and the consequent sole guardianship) for purposes of passport issuance and travel. Furthermore a single mother living abroad urgently needs to have in place documentation of her wishes for guardianship if she should be incapacitated or die. Courts do not readily consent otherwise to the transfer of the child outside of their country; yet the child may have no family in Britain (or the other country as the case may be).

(There are many, many sad cases where the ****tive father of the non-marital baby is a national and resident of a Muslim or Arab country and under their conflict of laws rules the father has sole guardianship and the country not being a signatory to The Hague Convention those rules don't apply. Whether by abduction or transient presence if the child ever goes to the father's country it may be impossible for the mother to get him or her back.) 

Fortunately nothing that the OP has said gives us reason to suppose that any of the problems I've discussed above are relevant. But if they are, now you know.


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