# To buy or not to buy?



## jay1970 (May 2, 2012)

Hi All

Myself and a friend are looking to buy a holiday/retirement home somewhere in Spain.
We have stayed there many a time, in several regions of spain.
Obviously, brexit and its effect for expats, old and new, for any potential buy are on our minds, as I've heard rumours of brits selling up and renting in Spain due to bureaucracy. I don't know if this is true or not? 
Also, any advice on good areas to look at for a potential purchase would be greatly appreciated. 

Thanks kindly 

Jason


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

jay1970 said:


> Hi All
> 
> Myself and a friend are looking to buy a holiday/retirement home somewhere in Spain.
> We have stayed there many a time, in several regions of spain.
> ...



I’ve heard nothing about people selling up due to bureaucracy. “ somewhere in Spain”. Little ambiguous to give any advice really. 

Touristy 
Quiet
Inland
Coat
North, south east west
How old
Affordability 
What do you require from a holiday home 

Sorry. Spain is a big place with a diverse culture. If you’ve stayed here many times in different regions then I would suggest those are your starting points, visit and get a feel for where you want to be.


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## jay1970 (May 2, 2012)

Megsmum said:


> I’ve heard nothing about people selling up due to bureaucracy. “ somewhere in Spain”. Little ambiguous to give any advice really.
> 
> Touristy
> Quiet
> ...


Hi Megsmum

Tbf I'd heard this info about bureaucracy off an ex pat living in Calpe. She said she had sold her property and started to rent due to Spanish officials and introducing new laws all the time. 
My friend is quite mature in age, but is relatively mobile. We looking for somewhere not to hilly, which rules some inland areas out, although wouldn'tmind 15/20 mins drive from the coast. I lived in qusada, just north of torrejveca, so not thrilled about a British enclave, I'm in n the process of learning the language, so would love to immerse myself in some Spanish culture. 
We have been looking at Murcia and Almeria regions. Ideally, we would look for somewhere close to all amenities so if my friend travels alone he isn't left stranded.

Thank you for your advive, it's very much appreciated.

Jason


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

I am struggling to think of any new laws which have been introduced in recent years which make life any more complicated for property owners who live in their own properties. Most recent activity has been centred around introducing tighter regulation for those wishing to rent properties out, eg insisting that tourist accommodation must have a licence which involves meeting minimum standards, some large cities cracking down on the number of apartments rented out for short term tourist licences, etc.

In the region I live in, Andalucia, allowances against inheritance tax were increased substantially this year, which helps those who inherit properties. A Spanish Supreme Court decision ruled that it was illegal for local Councils to charge the municipal "plus valia" tax if no gain was actually made when a property is sold.

As you hopefully know already, the costs involved in buying and selling property in Spain are high - there is the transfer tax on buying, which varies between the autonomous regions, plus legal and notary fees. When selling, estate agents' commission is normally much higher than it would be in the UK, for example, with 5% being quite common. Capital gains tax is also charged on the sale of a principal residence, although if the property has been your main residence for at least 3 years and all the gain is invested in another property within 2 years no CGT is payable. Then there is the municipal plus valia tax based on the increase of the value of the land the property is built on, since it was purchased.

People sell up in Spain for all kinds of reasons, and always have done. Some who wish to move to a new location don't want the added expense of buying again, if they think they may want to return to their home country in a few more years they think it will be easier if they don't have to wait to sell a property, etc.


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## JimmyLocksDad (Nov 2, 2017)

Spanish Estate agents in my experience tend to be far cheaper than the Scandi/British run ones. When I sold my last house a while back I used a Spanish one and negotiated a 2.5% fee.


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## jay1970 (May 2, 2012)

Megsmum said:


> I’ve heard nothing about people selling up due to bureaucracy. “ somewhere in Spain”. Little ambiguous to give any advice really.
> 
> Touristy
> Quiet
> ...





Lynn R said:


> I am struggling to think of any new laws which have been introduced in recent years which make life any more complicated for property owners who live in their own properties. Most recent activity has been centred around introducing tighter regulation for those wishing to rent properties out, eg insisting that tourist accommodation must have a licence which involves meeting minimum standards, some large cities cracking down on the number of apartments rented out for short term tourist licences, etc.
> 
> In the region I live in, Andalucia, allowances against inheritance tax were increased substantially this year, which helps those who inherit properties. A Spanish Supreme Court decision ruled that it was illegal for local Councils to charge the municipal "plus valia" tax if no gain was actually made when a property is sold.
> 
> ...


Thank you Lynn R 

There's a lot too digest on the tax you have to pay when purchasing a property.
Gonna have to do our homework when looking at a property. I had heard that venders look to reduce the value of a property by upto 20%. 

Thanks for the advice thou.


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## jay1970 (May 2, 2012)

JimmyLocksDad said:


> Spanish Estate agents in my experience tend to be far cheaper than the Scandi/British run ones. When I sold my last house a while back I used a Spanish one and negotiated a 2.5% fee.


I'll definitely bare that advice in mind. 
I will also make sure I get an independent solicitor for all the legalities. 
I see some of the estate agencies run viewing tours, which is a great idea foe viewing different properties in a particular area.

Thanks


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## booksurfer (Apr 21, 2018)

jay1970 said:


> There's a lot too digest on the tax you have to pay when purchasing a property.


I put a post up on here recently about all the various costs involved in buying, but reckon on about 12-15% of purchase price as the cost of transaction. €100k property = €12-15k buying cost.



jay1970 said:


> I had heard that venders look to reduce the value of a property by upto 20%.


What do you mean by this?

If you mean, you can knock 20% off the asking price of a property, quite possibly. But it depends on many variables of which you're going to do your own research on. 

Property in Andalucian regions, Almeria and Murcia is still very much a buyers market and there's still plenty to choose from.

If you mean you can get the vendor to reduce the value of the property you buy by 20% or more for the valor castral valuation, don't do it. It has many repercussions further down the line and the last thing you want is the local ayuntamiento valuing it at what they think it should be when you come to sell.

If you're looking in Almeria, Carboneras, Mojacar, Vera are all very nice areas.


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## jay1970 (May 2, 2012)

booksurfer said:


> I put a post up on here recently about all the various costs involved in buying, but reckon on about 12-15% of purchase price as the cost of transaction. €100k property = €12-15k buying cost.
> 
> 
> What do you mean by this?
> ...


Hi Booksurfer

I got this impression that most vendors excepted a little bit of negotiation on the asking price of a property. I'm not sure what you mean by variables? We will be looking in the regions of Almeria and Murcia as your right, I think you can get more for your money. 

Thanks you 

Jason


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## Gregorians (Oct 18, 2017)

jay1970 said:


> I'll definitely bare that advice in mind.
> I will also make sure I get an independent solicitor for all the legalities.
> I see some of the estate agencies run viewing tours, which is a great idea foe viewing different properties in a particular area.


Hi Jason

Two books I strongly recommend you look at:

_The Complete Guide to Buying a Property in Spain_ (12th edition) by Anthony Foster

_The Blevins Franks Guide to Living in Spain_ (11th edition) - a heavier read but contains much more detail about how to plan both a property purchase and structure your financial affairs. Annoyingly, only available as a hard copy from the Blevins Franks web site.

Unless there are areas you know really well, a note of caution on "viewing holidays". It is, after all, a holiday and it can be difficult to be totally objective. Others have suggested some useful points for you to consider upthread.

Why not start with a pen and a piece of paper and start jotting down must haves, nice to haves and don't want? E.g. needs to be within x minutes of a good hospital / airport etc.

All sorts of considerations to make at different points in your life. For example, I recently met an elderly couple who, almost knee-jerk, bought a house which is quite isolated in the countryside. From what I've seen of their lifestyle, they seem to prefer the constant company of others who speak English. While I wish them well with their choice, I suspect they haven't fully thought it through.

Good luck with your own plans.


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## jay1970 (May 2, 2012)

Gregorians said:


> Hi Jason
> 
> Two books I strongly recommend you look at:
> 
> ...


Hi Gregorians

I could agree more with jotting things down. As my friend is elderly and will sometimes travel alone. I need to make sure the areas not to hilly, he's able to reach shops, bars, help etc., and not a million miles from any airport.
I'll have a look at that book.

Thanks 

Jason


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## booksurfer (Apr 21, 2018)

jay1970 said:


> I got this impression that most vendors excepted a little bit of negotiation on the asking price of a property.


Yes. No one says you have to pay the price that a vendor is asking. That's the value of the property to them, it may not be a true market valuation or what the property is worth to you.



jay1970 said:


> I'm not sure what you mean by variables?


The variables that go into your valuation of a property and there are many of them.

Who owns the property? Is it an expat Brit selling up to go home? Is is Spanish family owned? Is it a bank owned property or bank repossession? Is it empty? Is it currently rented? Is it occupied? Does it have a current mortgage on it? Is it inland? Is it on the coast? Is it in a desirable location? Is it close to amenities? Is it in good condition? Does it need work? Is it does it have modern fittings? Is the price in line with other similar properties in the area? If not why not?

There are many variables that go into working out the true value of a property that may or many not make the true value anything like what a vendor is asking.


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## Gregorians (Oct 18, 2017)

booksurfer said:


> Yes. No one says you have to pay the price that a vendor is asking. That's the value of the property to them, it may not be a true market valuation or what the property is worth to you.


Very wise advice. Some of the prices asked for by expat vendors are bonkers. It's hard to tell whether they're just unrealistic or the agents egg them on. Either way, do your due diligence Jason. You'll soon get a feel for what the price range should be for a particular type of property in a particular location.


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## jay1970 (May 2, 2012)

booksurfer said:


> Yes. No one says you have to pay the price that a vendor is asking. That's the value of the property to them, it may not be a true market valuation or what the property is worth to you.
> 
> 
> The variables that go into your valuation of a property and there are many of them.
> ...


Hi 
I would suppose this is where you have to trust any information a estate agent gives and employ a good unbiased solicitor if possible? Definitely food fo thought. 

Thanks


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## booksurfer (Apr 21, 2018)

Gregorians said:


> Some of the prices asked for by expat vendors are bonkers. It's hard to tell whether they're just unrealistic or the agents egg them on.


Absolutely!

It happens for a number of reasons, one of which you've mentioned yourself?vendors often have unrealistic expectations of value, or values that don't reflect the current market.

The primary reason for this is because many people bought property on, around or after the peak of the market and anyone who knows anything about Spanish property knows the market crashed hard in 2007/8 and values have not recovered to anywhere near their previous values. But then those market values were artificially inflated, the market has probably dropped back to it's natural state.

For some vendors this is hard to reconcile.

I know someone who took a hit of about ?100k on a property because they were pretty much forced to sell for financial reasons and the market had dropped that much since they bought it.


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## booksurfer (Apr 21, 2018)

jay1970 said:


> Hi
> I would suppose this is where you have to trust any information a estate agent gives and employ a good unbiased solicitor if possible?


Trust an estate agent? I wouldn't trust an estate agent further than I could push them out of a window and unbiased solicitors aren't easy to find either!

Estate agents work on behalf of the vendor, not you. You have to do your own due diligence and research and be sure in your own mind that what they're claiming is correct.


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

Indeed. The only positive use of an estate agent (except for perhaps a bit of leg work which they might do for you) when buying is that you have two people / parties you can sue when it goes wrong instead of one.

Which actually is quite handy given that most private sellers will be very hard to trace and potentially have no money anyway.


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## jay1970 (May 2, 2012)

booksurfer said:


> Trust an estate agent? I wouldn't trust an estate agent further than I could push them out of a window and unbiased solicitors aren't easy to find either!
> 
> Estate agents work on behalf of the vendor, not you. You have to do your own due diligence and research and be sure in your own mind that what they're claiming is correct.


Hahaha yes estate agents are not to be trusted that is for sure. 
I'll have look for a good solicitor, I'm not sure I have the ability or knowledge to look for all the pitfalls, i.e. Any mortgage on or wether it's a legal build or not. This is a interesting yet daunting part of the purchase I suppose.

Thanks 

Jason


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## jay1970 (May 2, 2012)

Overandout said:


> Indeed. The only positive use of an estate agent (except for perhaps a bit of leg work which they might do for you) when buying is that you have two people / parties you can sue when it goes wrong instead of one.
> 
> Which actually is quite handy given that most private sellers will be very hard to trace and potentially have no money anyway.


I hope it doesn't come to that. Gonna have to do my best to research everything.

Thanks 

Jason


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

booksurfer said:


> Trust an estate agent? I wouldn't trust an estate agent further than I could push them out of a window and unbiased solicitors aren't easy to find either!
> 
> Estate agents work on behalf of the vendor, not you. You have to do your own due diligence and research and be sure in your own mind that what they're claiming is correct.


This excellent piece of advice should be gold-framed and placed on the 'stickies'.
Being a suspicious type, I'd not place all my trust in my lawyer either. 

I used to pop in now and then to peep at another website, mainly used by Brits to moan about the way their money had been skimmed off them by lawyers, developers, estate agents... Reading their complaints, it seemed many of them had left their brains on the plane when landing.
One post lamented that they'd visited an estate agent looking for an apartment and he'd taken them to a developer who was building off-plan. The poster explained that the estate agent and developer were so nice and helpful, they'd even taken them to a lawyer to act for them and they'd been treated to a sumptuous lunch...
You can guess the outcome...


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## Gregorians (Oct 18, 2017)

mrypg9 said:


> The estate agent and developer were so nice and helpful,


This is a phrase I hear again and again and, like you, can only speculate or, like watching a slow motion road crash, witness the outcome.

I try to warn people who are still in their honeymoon period when looking for property, but at that stage they're rarely ready to listen.

The only way to ultimately deal with this situation is for a regulatory clampdown on conflict of interest. I don't hold out much hope for that happening, given that Spain is generally rubbish at such things and as the Rajoy fiasco has proven, it's systemic and at the highest level (suggestions are the rot on the latter goes all the way up to the King). But I digress.

For anyone looking at these threads, please don't let that put you off coming to live in one of the most beautiful and wonderful countries in the world. Just don't discard your common sense.


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## Williams2 (Sep 15, 2013)

Gregorians said:


> This is a phrase I hear again and again and, like you, can only speculate or, like watching a slow motion road crash, witness the outcome.
> 
> I try to warn people who are still in their honeymoon period when looking for property, but at that stage they're rarely ready to listen.
> 
> ...


Why buy when you can rent ?
With the vast majority of Expats being those retiring to the sun - chances are you wouldn't have that many
years left in you - to see much in the way of capital appreciation ( UK style ) in Spain anyway and
who are you doing this favour for these days ? your offspring ? who in many cases have found their own
way in life, well before you retired; therefore there's nothing to stop you spending your children's
inheritance and not feeling guilty about it anymore.

So the capital gain from your previous home in the UK ( less any tax you might or might not have 
incured ) could be invested elsewhere or to stay safe, kept in an interest bearing savings account
and look at it as income draw down, on top of your monthly pension or pensions.
With the main advantage being that once you get tired of renting in one place; well its easy enough to
'go renting' in other places; in those locations you have discovered or found more appealing as time
goes by.


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## jay1970 (May 2, 2012)

mrypg9 said:


> This excellent piece of advice should be gold-framed and placed on the 'stickies'.
> Being a suspicious type, I'd not place all my trust in my lawyer either.
> 
> I used to pop in now and then to peep at another website, mainly used by Brits to moan about the way their money had been skimmed off them by lawyers, developers, estate agents... Reading their complaints, it seemed many of them had left their brains on the plane when landing.
> ...


I usually trust my gut instinct, but I think buying in Spain will require more than intuition.


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## Isobella (Oct 16, 2014)

Good points Willams. Probably best to keep your uk house or downsize and rent it out, the income would pay for rent in Spain.
Not sure about spending the kids inheritence, maybe some of it, inheritences from family helped me have a nice life. We did consider downsizing and splashing out with the profit but couldn't find anything we liked enough to live in.

I have a friend, now 72. She owns 18 houses, some in London. I asked her why she didn't sell off a couple and splurge out but she wants to leave the empire intact. When I said I would sell some she laughed and said that's why you don't own 18:spit: one of her two kids is the type who would go out and buy a Maserati. I have a friend who bought a Rolex and a new Mercedes when his Mother died.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Williams2 said:


> Why buy when you can rent ?
> With the vast majority of Expats being those retiring to the sun - chances are you wouldn't have that many
> years left in you - to see much in the way of capital appreciation ( UK style ) in Spain anyway and
> who are you doing this favour for these days ? your offspring ? who in many cases have found their own
> ...


Whilst agreeing with what you post, I must point out that although retired I hope to live for as many years post-work as I did in work. I've already reached the half-way mark...Not all retired immigrants are doddery old gits with one foot in the grave, young man.

But I do believe you are right about leaving a Spanish property to your offspring. I strongly disapprove of inherited wealth beyond a certain level anyway but why assume your son/daughter will rejoice at the thought of being bequeathed an overseas property? It's a responsibility they may not want. Some may have already bought overseas themselves as has my son. To leave him another Spanish property would be to leave him a pain in the backside.

When I die, something I intend to postpone for as long as possible, such money as I have left will go to Dogs Trust. Hopefully there won't be much left. I'm growing old in comfort. What I will have left my son is memories, values, a firm stable loving upbringing and the means to an education all of which have made him the decent man he is. You can't put a money value on things like that.

He doesn't want my large collection of books so they're going to the Estepona Municipal Library although I doubt some of them will ever be read. I did want my son to have them but he said he wasn't going to build a ****ing extension on his house just for my books.

So I agree 100% with every word of your post.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Isobella said:


> : one of her two kids is the type who would go out and buy a Maserati. I have a friend who bought a Rolex and a new Mercedes when his Mother died.


When my Mum died I bought a couple of rugs with the money she left, less than £300 rolled up and hidden in her wardrobe.
But if she had left loadsamoney I would have bought a Maserati and maybe a Rolex. Why not?

When my daughter-in-law died earlier this year my son bought a new LandRover Discovery. Comfort buying.


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## Isobella (Oct 16, 2014)

jay1970 said:


> I usually trust my gut instinct, but I think buying in Spain will require more than intuition.


Correct. Don't use just one Agent. They latch on to you, only show you what they want to and pretend to be your new best friend. They find out your weaknesses and use it. Find your own Lawyer too, do some research.


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## Gregorians (Oct 18, 2017)

I think views of expats in Spain are somewhat given a bad press by all of those terrible _A Place in the Sun_-type TV programmes.


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## Isobella (Oct 16, 2014)

mrypg9 said:


> When my Mum died I bought a couple of rugs with the money she left, less than £300 rolled up and hidden in her wardrobe.
> But if she had left loadsamoney I would have bought a Maserati and maybe a Rolex. Why not?
> 
> When my daughter-in-law died earlier this year my son bought a new LandRover Discovery. Comfort buying.


I don't think my Daughter would but possibly pass some on to Grandson who would ha ha.


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## Gregorians (Oct 18, 2017)

Isobella said:


> Correct. Don't use just one Agent. They latch on to you, only show you what they want to and pretend to be your new best friend. They find out your weaknesses and use it. Find your own Lawyer too, do some research.


Ha. One of the agents we were dealing with had the cheek to suggest that we should tell them about any other agent we were speaking to, and that they'd be the go-between. 

Do I have MUG written on my forehead?


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

Getting back to the topic of buying .A lot of good advice given. However do bear in mind that as a foreigner with little Spanish you will always be slightly handicapped and no amount of research will compensate. Everything you do will be effectively translated by a third party. Many aspects of the Spanish property market are guided by subtle cultural practises. For example Brits seem to take the attitude that they will always out smart the locals by clever bargaining but often lose deals because they effectively try and make the Spanish lose face. Be careful in how you approach deals and do accept that the estate agent is probably the only one who can help. Good luck


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## Williams2 (Sep 15, 2013)

Isobella said:


> Good points Willams. Probably best to keep your uk house or downsize and rent it out, the income would pay for rent in Spain.
> Not sure about spending the kids inheritence, maybe some of it, inheritences from family helped me have a nice life. We did consider downsizing and splashing out with the profit but couldn't find anything we liked enough to live in.
> 
> I have a friend, now 72. She owns 18 houses, some in London. I asked her why she didn't sell off a couple and splurge out but she wants to leave the empire intact. When I said I would sell some she laughed and said that's why you don't own 18:spit: one of her two kids is the type who would go out and buy a Maserati. I have a friend who bought a Rolex and a new Mercedes when his Mother died.



No doubt those who were born in the 1950's and 1960's & 70's never had it so good, so long
as they had the jobs and incomes to buy their own House ( particularly in London & the Home
Counties ) with the more astute one's getting into the property market for investment, etc.

The only hiccup was the ERM crisis in the 1990's but things soon bounced back after that.

I'm sure the millennial generation who have parents less fortunate or astute as the above, are
struggling to get out of the 'we cannot afford to buy a house of our own trap' 
So there's no Bank of Mom & Dad for them to turn to.

I still wonder whether those who buy into the 'Place in the Sun' dream, are doing so with rose
tinted glasses of, _well you can never lose out with buying your own property_ whether in the
UK or abroad, based on their parents experience and the staggering amount of property appreciation
in the UK.
I even see the press encouraging this by speculating that Madrid could be the next London when
it comes to property appreciation in the future.
Although I notice that Barcelona has dropped off the radar, no doubt due to political uncertainty.


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## danboy20 (Jul 10, 2017)

Isobella said:


> Correct. Don't use just one Agent. They latch on to you, only show you what they want to and pretend to be your new best friend. They find out your weaknesses and use it. Find your own Lawyer too, do some research.



Yes, waste your time with 50 agents who all have access to the same properties!! 

What kind of weakness? Colour blindness? Vertigo?

Silly advice given on here sometimes.


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## danboy20 (Jul 10, 2017)

JimmyLocksDad said:


> Spanish Estate agents in my experience tend to be far cheaper than the Scandi/British run ones. When I sold my last house a while back I used a Spanish one and negotiated a 2.5% fee.


People go on about Estate agent fees, and stupidly compare them to the UK, where it is a completely different market.

You often find yourself acting as a second solicitor, walking clients through all the stages of moving here....arranging maintenance work when the client is out of the country. Going to the notary on their behalf. Out of 20 leads - driving them around all day - you might get one sale.

It´s really short sighted to paint all estate agents with the same brush.


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## danboy20 (Jul 10, 2017)

A decent Estate Agent can help you with a lot of things. It´s not easy moving here at first, if you have no idea of the culture or language. We often find ourselves helping people with every aspect of their lives.


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## Isobella (Oct 16, 2014)

kaipa said:


> Getting back to the topic of buying .A lot of good advice given. However do bear in mind that as a foreigner with little Spanish you will always be slightly handicapped and no amount of research will compensate. Everything you do will be effectively translated by a third party. Many aspects of the Spanish property market are guided by subtle cultural practises. For example Brits seem to take the attitude that they will always out smart the locals by clever bargaining but often lose deals because they effectively try and make the Spanish lose face. Be careful in how you approach deals and do accept that the estate agent is probably the only one who can help. Good luck


Many of the British Agents barely speak Spanish themselves. We once tried to buy a house from a German Agent, a villa being sold by two sisters from Madrid who had inherited it. `we offered slightly less, no go so we offered the asking price...they decided to up the price around 5000, their logic being that if were were keen enough why not ask more:roll eyes:


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## danboy20 (Jul 10, 2017)

jay1970 said:


> I had heard that venders look to reduce the value of a property by upto 20%
> 
> Thanks for the advice thou.



Totally dependent on their individual circumstances....whether they have a mortgage etc.....how desperate they are to sell.....many different factors. 

My best advice to you, would be to ask several of the locals who they trust in the area. Maybe even rent for a few months to give yourself the real picture, and a better idea of what you want. 

Not all estate agents are the devil incarnate people here paint them out to be - they can be very helpful, and find the right property for you & help with all the comes with moving to a different country with a different language.


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## tarot650 (Sep 30, 2007)

danboy20 said:


> A decent Estate Agent can help you with a lot of things. It´s not easy moving here at first, if you have no idea of the culture or language. We often find ourselves helping people with every aspect of their lives.


It's a damn site easier now dan than when we came here over 23years ago.No forums to go on,no internety,nada,nothing.Will agree with you there are some good agents around it's just finding one.We have known a few agents in our time and hate to admit it a couple were very dodgy.Remember the first agent we met who was Danish called Ralph and he was advertising a town house up near the race course.We gave him ring and asked if we could come to his office which he said was not possible as it was in the proccess of being modernised.in fact Ralph was nothing more than a correador.We actually met him and he took us to look at this town house which we did like but told us he did not have the keys with him for the back door and you have guessed it,pressure sale.He said if we put a deposit with him he would take it off the market which we told him we could not do.That night we went back up on our own and went round the back of the property and lo and behold 3doors away was a sign saying for sale direct from the owners which we eventually bought and saved a few million pesetas.I could tell you stories about Mediteranean properties and sunsearch properties direct which you would never ever believe.It's a shame agents have got a bad reputation but I suppose its down to some of the horrible nasty snidey tricks they have done over the years..


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## tarot650 (Sep 30, 2007)

Just to say the 2estate agents I mentioned were on Cerros del Aguila and ceased trading many years ago and have nothing to do with any estate agents that are here now..


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## danboy20 (Jul 10, 2017)

Another tip, if you want to use an agent....compile a list of properties you want to see from multiple websites, and give this to the agent you feel happy with using - he should have access to all of them, which saves faffing around with dozens of agencies. You won´t pay any more commission just because there are two agencies involved. 

The longer you stay with that agent, and the more feedback you give them, the more likely they are to find the right property for you.


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## booksurfer (Apr 21, 2018)

danboy20 said:


> Yes, waste your time with 50 agents who all have access to the same properties!!


Who says they all have access to the same properties? Isn't this a bit of a generalisation or perhaps a somewhat blinkered view?

I can assure you, _los agentes inmobiliario_s in my location do not all either have the same properties or all have an online presence. I know because I frequently look in their windows when I'm on one of my strolls. But then my location is predominantly Spanish and that's consistent with the Spanish preferring face to face communication rather than all this new fangled internet technology.



danboy20 said:


> Silly advice given on here sometimes.


Indeed!


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## booksurfer (Apr 21, 2018)

Isobella said:


> ...`we offered slightly less, no go so we offered the asking price...they decided to up the price around 5000, their logic being that if were were keen enough why not ask more...


Gotta love the Spanish _individualismo_!


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## danboy20 (Jul 10, 2017)

booksurfer said:


> Who says they all have access to the same properties? Isn't this a bit of a generalisation or perhaps a somewhat blinkered view?
> 
> I can assure you, _los agentes inmobiliario_s in my location do not all either have the same properties or all have an online presence. I know because I frequently look in their windows when I'm on one of my strolls. But then my location is predominantly Spanish and that's consistent with the Spanish preferring face to face communication rather than all this new fangled internet technology.
> 
> ...



Just because they don´t advertise the properties, does not mean they do not have access to them.

If they don´t have access to a broad range of properties via an MLS system, why would you want to use that agency? Why use an agency with a limited property selection, working in the dark ages?


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## Horlics (Sep 27, 2011)

Williams2 said:


> No doubt those who were born in the 1950's and 1960's & 70's never had it so good, so long
> as they had the jobs and incomes to buy their own House ( particularly in London & the Home
> Counties ) with the more astute one's getting into the property market for investment, etc.
> 
> ...


None of this resonates with me. When I bought in Spain (because my view is why rent when you can buy (as long as sufficient research has been done and you are absolutely sure of where you want to live), all I was concerned with was not suffering too much of a loss as a result of my lifestyle choice, i.e. buying a place.

I didn't hope for massive gains. 

Maybe that's because I am from up north where people who moved 10 years ago are in negative equity or just about breaking even. Most members of my family have made nothing from housing, in the UK in the last 10 years. The UK's housing market has fragmented and not all have seen huge gains.


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## Horlics (Sep 27, 2011)

booksurfer said:


> Who says they all have access to the same properties? Isn't this a bit of a generalisation or perhaps a somewhat blinkered view?


Where I am, the agents all know each other and will talk to each other to get a sale in the area, with split commission, rather than let potential customers walk away and eventually buy elsewhere. And then there are the formal MLS systems and agreements with give them access to each others' properties.

But I am sure things are different in other places.


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## booksurfer (Apr 21, 2018)

danboy20 said:


> Why use an agency with a limited property selection, working in the dark ages?


Because they have properties not available to other estate agents?

Um, yeah that could be it!


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## danboy20 (Jul 10, 2017)

booksurfer said:


> Because they have properties not available to other estate agents?
> 
> Um, yeah that could be it!


Let me know the names of these estate agents with a library of exclusive properties....


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## booksurfer (Apr 21, 2018)

danboy20 said:


> Let me know the names of these estate agents with a library of exclusive properties....


As I stated previously, I came across a number of them when wandering around in my own town, that when I went back to look up online either didn't exist (online) or had a simple placeholder showing their contact details.

Not all estate agents have an online listing or are all connected together into one giant database. There are a number of independent, individually/family owned businesses.


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## Williams2 (Sep 15, 2013)

Horlics said:


> None of this resonates with me. When I bought in Spain (because my view is why rent when you can buy (as long as sufficient research has been done and you are absolutely sure of where you want to live), all I was concerned with was not suffering too much of a loss as a result of my lifestyle choice, i.e. buying a place.
> 
> I didn't hope for massive gains.
> 
> Maybe that's because I am from up north where people who moved 10 years ago are in negative equity or just about breaking even. Most members of my family have made nothing from housing, in the UK in the last 10 years. The UK's housing market has fragmented and not all have seen huge gains.


Yes it's another world for those who live or have lived North of Watford and believe it or not - 
I know how you feel being 'that Northern Expat in Asturias'


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## Horlics (Sep 27, 2011)

booksurfer said:


> As I stated previously, I came across a number of them when wandering around in my own town, that when I went back to look up online either didn't exist (online) or had a simple placeholder showing their contact details.
> 
> Not all estate agents have an online listing or are all connected together into one giant database. There are a number of independent, individually/family owned businesses.


The agent I bought from does have an online presence, although I was a walk-in. On their site, around 10% of the properties are marked as "exclusive", the rest are listed with at least one other agent.

I've no doubt things are different in some places, but many places with appeal to expats are saturated with agencies and many are trying to sell the same properties.


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## jay1970 (May 2, 2012)

Williams2 said:


> No doubt those who were born in the 1950's and 1960's & 70's never had it so good, so long
> as they had the jobs and incomes to buy their own House ( particularly in London & the Home
> Counties ) with the more astute one's getting into the property market for investment, etc.
> 
> ...


Am I missing something with buying into "A Place In The Sun" 
I know the programm paints a rosy picture of buying property abroad.


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## Gregorians (Oct 18, 2017)

jay1970 said:


> Am I missing something with buying into "A Place In The Sun"
> I know the programm paints a rosy picture of buying property abroad.


Less rosy, more rose-tinted.

It appeals to a demographic which keeps many wheels turning here.

But that doesn't make it right or pleasant.


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## jay1970 (May 2, 2012)

danboy20 said:


> A decent Estate Agent can help you with a lot of things. It´s not easy moving here at first, if you have no idea of the culture or language. We often find ourselves helping people with every aspect of their lives.


I'm sure estate agents get a bad press, deservingly so? I'm not so sure!
But as been said 20 viewing for one sale! 
Ultimately, as a purchaser of a property, I've got to put all my faith in that estate agent


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## jay1970 (May 2, 2012)

tarot650 said:


> It's a damn site easier now dan than when we came here over 23years ago.No forums to go on,no internety,nada,nothing.Will agree with you there are some good agents around it's just finding one.We have known a few agents in our time and hate to admit it a couple were very dodgy.Remember the first agent we met who was Danish called Ralph and he was advertising a town house up near the race course.We gave him ring and asked if we could come to his office which he said was not possible as it was in the proccess of being modernised.in fact Ralph was nothing more than a correador.We actually met him and he took us to look at this town house which we did like but told us he did not have the keys with him for the back door and you have guessed it,pressure sale.He said if we put a deposit with him he would take it off the market which we told him we could not do.That night we went back up on our own and went round the back of the property and lo and behold 3doors away was a sign saying for sale direct from the owners which we eventually bought and saved a few million pesetas.I could tell you stories about Mediteranean properties and sunsearch properties direct which you would never ever believe.It's a shame agents have got a bad reputation but I suppose its down to some of the horrible nasty snidey tricks they have done over the years..


I'll probably be looking for aggro estate agent in the Almeria/Murcia regions, if you know of any, let me know. I'll stay clear of Ralph.


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## Gregorians (Oct 18, 2017)

jay1970 said:


> I'm sure estate agents get a bad press, deservingly so? I'm not so sure!
> But as been said 20 viewing for one sale!
> Ultimately, as a purchaser of a property, I've got to put all my faith in that estate agent


OK, time for some perspective.

There are alot of Brits who've failed at what they were doing back in Blighty.

They come over here and think "I know what, I'll be an estate agent".

Maybe they'll learn the trade and do the thing we all dream of and make a good match of a buyer and a seller.

For those who are professional and good at what they do, I apologise.

Or maybe they'll pose as a professional, without the need to demonstrate any qualification or competency, and hope that they can find a few mugs willing to pay way over the local market odds. 

Jobs a good 'un.


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## jay1970 (May 2, 2012)

danboy20 said:


> Another tip, if you want to use an agent....compile a list of properties you want to see from multiple websites, and give this to the agent you feel happy with using - he should have access to all of them, which saves faffing around with dozens of agencies. You won´t pay any more commission just because there are two agencies involved.
> 
> The longer you stay with that agent, and the more feedback you give them, the more likely they are to find the right property for you.


I will do, I'll look at a few properties in the areas I'm looking at. I've been viewing the place in the sun website 😏


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## Horlics (Sep 27, 2011)

jay1970 said:


> Am I missing something with buying into "A Place In The Sun"
> I know the programm paints a rosy picture of buying property abroad.


And Escape to the Country paints a rosy picture of buying property in rural UK. Am I missing something?

I'd say not. People must like watching the programmes so they're going to carry on making them. They show people buying houses, which happens everywhere.


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## Gregorians (Oct 18, 2017)

Horlics said:


> And Escape to the Country paints a rosy picture of buying property in rural UK. Am I missing something?
> 
> I'd say not. People must like watching the programmes so they're going to carry on making them. They show people buying houses, which happens everywhere.


I used to make shows in the same genre. It's a make believe version of reality.


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## tarot650 (Sep 30, 2007)

jay1970 said:


> I'll probably be looking for aggro estate agent in the Almeria/Murcia regions, if you know of any, let me know. I'll stay clear of Ralph.


Only estate agent I knew was in Albox a guy called Gordon Condrey and that's a good few years back.We had been on the Costa del Sol about 4years when we were thinking about selling the house and moving and we had seen a property advertised in The Town Cryer a paper long gone as there was no internet then and we travelled up to see the property,in fact have got a picture of the wife stood outside it.Have to admit it was a nice place but two things wrong with it.it was an illegal build and 4K down a track.Last I heard of Mr.Condrey he had done a runner with the mayors wife of Albox.That's the nice thing about today,you have got the internet to go at,Google maps and it's easy enough to get opinions on estate agents whether they are good,bad or indifferent. Unfortunately back then you had to trust the word of estate agents.


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## jay1970 (May 2, 2012)

Gregorians said:


> Less rosy, more rose-tinted.
> 
> It appeals to a demographic which keeps many wheels turning here.
> 
> But that doesn't make it right or pleasant.


I can see what you mean by rose tinted glasses, but why less pleasant? 
Is that to do with estate agents and the local council etc


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## jay1970 (May 2, 2012)

Gregorians said:


> I used to make shows in the same genre. It's a make believe version of reality.


I've brought into one of them programs 😂😂 although I won't be taking my rose tinted glasses. I've rented in Spain for a short period of time and worked there, so realise I've plenty of hoops to jump through before buying


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## jay1970 (May 2, 2012)

tarot650 said:


> Only estate agent I knew was in Albox a guy called Gordon Condrey and that's a good few years back.We had been on the Costa del Sol about 4years when we were thinking about selling the house and moving and we had seen a property advertised in The Town Cryer a paper long gone as there was no internet then and we travelled up to see the property,in fact have got a picture of the wife stood outside it.Have to admit it was a nice place but two things wrong with it.it was an illegal build and 4K down a track.Last I heard of Mr.Condrey he had done a runner with the mayors wife of Albox.That's the nice thing about today,you have got the internet to go at,Google maps and it's easy enough to get opinions on estate agents whether they are good,bad or indifferent. Unfortunately back then you had to trust the word of estate agents.


Thanks, and I agree, the internet will make researching properties etc a dam sight easier. That poor town major.


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## DawnColin (Jul 12, 2018)

I have been reading this thread with interest - very helpful. Thanks to all.

I feel that we are quite lucky as we have friends who live in Javea already who have bought and sold over the last few years. They have recommended a couple of good estate agents, one of which we have been speaking too regularly to build a relationship (and we have seen an apartment that they are selling that we like, so hoping to get it). I also have a recommendation for a good lawyer from my brother who bought in Spain a few years ago, he still looks after my brothers Spanish interests in their rental place/taxes etc. Plus someone who can translate and do some of the donkey work for us.

Its very easy to get carried away by the weather and the prospect of retiring and never working again. I am very impatient to be there right now! Luckily I also appreciate that its not a quick process to sell a house in the UK so until this is done, we aren't going anywhere. My research is coming along well though and my spreadsheet of questions and answers is getting completed very comprehensively - thanks to you guys!


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## Williams2 (Sep 15, 2013)

DawnColin said:


> I have been reading this thread with interest - very helpful. Thanks to all.
> 
> I feel that we are quite lucky as we have friends who live in Javea already who have bought and sold over the last few years. They have recommended a couple of good estate agents, one of which we have been speaking too regularly to build a relationship (and we have seen an apartment that they are selling that we like, so hoping to get it). I also have a recommendation for a good lawyer from my brother who bought in Spain a few years ago, he still looks after my brothers Spanish interests in their rental place/taxes etc. Plus someone who can translate and do some of the donkey work for us.
> 
> *Its very easy to get carried away by the weather and the prospect of retiring and never working again*. I am very impatient to be there right now! Luckily I also appreciate that its not a quick process to sell a house in the UK so until this is done, we aren't going anywhere. My research is coming along well though and my spreadsheet of questions and answers is getting completed very comprehensively - thanks to you guys!


Don't go - it's too darned hot I tell you !! and beside's you will find the heat so sweltering, you will
find yourself stuck in your air conditioned apartment for much of the day, during the summer
months ( only venturing out once the sun goes down )
Therefore take a walk on the cool side !!
Look North, Sir !!


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Williams2 said:


> Don't go - it's too darned hot I tell you !! and beside's you will find the heat so sweltering, you will
> find yourself stuck in your air conditioned apartment for most of the day during the summer
> months ( only venturing out once the sun goes down )
> Therefore take a walk on the cool side !!
> Go North Sir !!


 Have you seen the temps in the UK recently Williams? They are suffering more from the heat there than in Madrid this year.
Great temps here and nice and cool in the evenings where I am


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## Williams2 (Sep 15, 2013)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Have you seen the temps in the UK recently Williams? They are suffering more from the heat there than in Madrid this year.
> Great temps here and nice and cool in the evenings where I am


Aye thank goodness I live and work in Asturias, otherwise the next best cool place for me to chill out would be the Faroe Islands, 
between Norway & Iceland although no doubt after Brexit; I'll have to chill out in less exotic places like the Shetland Islands.

To think that it should come to this - Jacob Rees-Mogg has a lot to answer for !!

:rant:


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## Accrevi (May 23, 2018)

Williams2 said:


> Aye thank goodness I live and work in Asturias, otherwise the next best cool place for me to chill out would be the Faroe Islands,
> between Norway & Iceland although no doubt after Brexit; I'll have to chill out in less exotic places like the Shetland Islands.
> 
> To think that it should come to this - Jacob Rees-Mogg has a lot to answer for !!
> ...


Well, who knows what will exactly happen though.


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