# Spain, the family and the recession



## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Jon Henley is travelling through Portugal, Spain, Italy and Greece to hear the human stories behind the European
debt crisis. He hears from someone who believes the role of the family in Spain acts as a buffer in times of recession
The 'stoical Spanish soul' seems able to cope with hardship | World news | guardian.co.uk


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## Sirtravelot (Jul 20, 2011)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Jon Henley is travelling through Portugal, Spain, Italy and Greece to hear the human stories behind the European
> debt crisis. He hears from someone who believes the role of the family in Spain acts as a buffer in times of recession
> The 'stoical Spanish soul' seems able to cope with hardship | World news | guardian.co.uk


Well that was depressing!

Maybe I should stay put in Scotland.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Sirtravelot said:


> Well that was depressing!
> 
> Maybe I should stay put in Scotland.


Well, maybe you should. The article tells it like it is for many a Spanish family, so...
However, I seem to remember that you weren't thinking of coming over for a couple of years and although they say it's going to take 10 - 15 years before Spain's back to the level it was before the crisis, maybe it'll have picked up enough for a young Scot to jump on board!


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## Sirtravelot (Jul 20, 2011)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Well, maybe you should. The article tells it like it is for many a Spanish family, so...
> However, I seem to remember that you weren't thinking of coming over for a couple of years and although they say it's going to take 10 - 15 years before Spain's back to the level it was before the crisis, maybe it'll have picked up enough for a young Scot to jump on board!


Yeah, true, very good point. This whole crisis is such a pity.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Sirtravelot said:


> Yeah, true, very good point. This whole crisis is such a pity.


You're telling me!
OH is a teacher who's been given 3 weeks work begrudgingly and I have a 17 year old daughter who is trying to keep her motivation up for studying and going on to university.


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## Sirtravelot (Jul 20, 2011)

Pesky Wesky said:


> You're telling me!
> OH is a teacher who's been given 3 weeks work begrudgingly and I have a 17 year old daughter who is trying to keep her motivation up for studying and going on to university.



Is she going to university in the UK or Spain?


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Sirtravelot said:


> Is she going to university in the UK or Spain?


Well, as the only idea she's ever had as far as work goes is teaching young kids, we've never even considered sending her to the Uk. She is Spanish and wants to work here. ATM at least


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## Sirtravelot (Jul 20, 2011)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Well, as the only idea she's ever had as far as work goes is teaching young kids, we've never even considered sending her to the Uk. She is Spanish and wants to work here. ATM at least


If she's Spanish I can't imagine her wanting to move to the UK, simply because of the weather. The Spaniards are coming over though!

By the way, where did you hear that it may take 10-15 years for the economy to recover?


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

*recovery from unemployment*



Sirtravelot said:


> If she's Spanish I can't imagine her wanting to move to the UK, simply because of the weather. The Spaniards are coming over though!
> 
> By the way, where did you hear that it may take 10-15 years for the economy to recover?


Well, it was widely reported in the papers at the time. The report actually came from the OCDE (in Spanish) the OECD (The Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development). After a quick look I've come to the conclusion that you have to pay to get a copy of that report, but maybe somone else can find it. 
Here's a link to an article in El País
The headline is 
La OCDE cree que España tardará 15 años en volver a la tasa de paro previa a la crisis
Which translates into smth like
The OECD believes that Spain's unemploment rate will not drop to the rate previous to the recession for another 15 years. 
La OCDE cree que España tardará 15 años en volver a la tasa de paro previa a la crisis · ELPAÍS.com

Here is smth interesting I found on the OECD site about unemployment
http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/8/45/48682976.pdf
In fact the site is full of clear concise info, but I just don't have time to look at it now. I'd love somebody else to root around and extract the good stuff


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## nigele2 (Dec 25, 2009)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Here is smth interesting I found on the OECD site about unemployment
> http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/8/45/48682976.pdf
> In fact the site is full of clear concise info, but I just don't have time to look at it now. I'd love somebody else to root around and extract the good stuff


I think the main thing the OECD is emphasizing are the problems of long term unemployment. Companies want people who have recent track records. 

"Three quarters of long-term unemployed (with more than 12 months of unemployment) are primeaged workers (ages 25 to 54 years) and almost two-thirds are low-skilled. Long spells of unemployment can reduce employment prospects because workers’ skills may degrade over time and employers may prefer to hire candidates with recent work experience."

That is why I am happy to sponsor my step-daughter in Lanzarote while she works for nothing. At least she has an ongoing CV.

While the OECD mention the steps proposed last autumn :

"Spain has embarked on a series of labour market reforms as adopted in
September 2010 and as announced more recently as part of its social and economic tripartite agreement in February 2011."

It avoids mentioning what may be an even bigger issue. Because Spain is in the Euro over which it has virtually no control (valuation and interest rates) recovery through offering cheap labour is not an easy option. How can Spain become more competative in the global marketplace is the key question IMHO.

As seen recently with the electronic car company from SW England external companies will only create jobs in Spain if Spain pays them to do so and Spain has no money.

All very depressing. But back to work for me


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Well, it was widely reported in the papers at the time. The report actually came from the OCDE (in Spanish) the OECD (The Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development). After a quick look I've come to the conclusion that you have to pay to get a copy of that report, but maybe somone else can find it.
> Here's a link to an article in El País
> The headline is
> La OCDE cree que España tardará 15 años en volver a la tasa de paro previa a la crisis
> ...


I had a look but there's not a lot there we don't already know.
Unlike Germany where companies have kept on workers but reduced working hours and wages Spanish employers have shed jobs. That's obvious when you compare unemployment rates.
Another point is that when the economy does pick up job creation with temporary contracts will increase faster than in countries where temporary contracts are not such a feature of the job market. Again, no surprise. But do we really want to continue with such insecurity in the labour market? What incentive is there for employers to provide training for temporary staff? How can employees plan their futures if they don't know if they'll have a job in a year's time?
The implicit message seems to be that there is an urgent need for liberalisation of the labour market. The limited reforms of autumn 2010 have not really had much of an impact.
From various other sources we can glean the -again obvious - fact that much of the unemployment stems from the construction bubble and the ill-fated scheme to make Spain into the Florida of Europe.
There is a crying need for investment in green technology, a sector in which Spain has a lead, and venture capital in general to encourage business start-ups but also investment of public funds in job creation to get money circulating.
But the root of it all is the high state borrowing costs and until there is a plan to release Spain and other countries in the same situation from the vagaries of the markets by providing a stream of funding at sustainable interest rates nothing will change.
When the costs of borrowing reach 7% or more the situation is unsustainable.
It's all very well bemoaning the fact that this is so but there is an urgent need to formulate a practical, achievable plan for obtaining the steady stream of loan finance needed for ongoing and future government spending whilst fundamental restructuring of the entire scheme of state financing is underway.
Otherwise pensions, public sector wages and public services in general will just cease.


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