# Connecting With the Locals



## californiabeachboy

I have a question about connecting with the locals in Thailand. I am looking at spending a few months in Thailand (either Jomtien, or Kata Beach in Phuket) and I don't speak any Thai. While I realize some locals in tourist areas speak a little English, I assume most do not speak very much. I am curious as to how any expats who don't speak Thai manage to have local aquaintances when spending time there. Do you just hang out with other English speakers? The reason I ask is that I lived in France for several months, and I speak a little French so I was able to find locals to communicate with, but I still found that there was a real separation between me and the French (language based, not cultural). It would seem to worse in Thailand, since I speak no Thai. If you have spent time in Thailand, I would be interested in knowing how do you connect with locals, either as friends or in terms of day to day conversations - coffee shops, etc.? Or do you just hang out with other English speakers?

Thanks.


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## Guest

Another obstacle is being unable to read Thai either. At least some words in French make sense to an Anglophone even if he doesn't speak the lingo - those with common Latin roots. I'm bilingual French myself, and have lived there many years, so know what you mean. You get so much more out of the experience of living in a foreign country if you can communicate at least reasonably well with the locals.

Communicating with local Thais - it's possible as some speak English, but conversations are usually pretty basic. I very rarely see Westerners myself, but seeing as I have a Thai partner who speaks pretty good English, communication isn't a problem. However it has hindered my attempts to learn Thai.


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## californiabeachboy

Thanks Frogblogger. I have traveled to many countries in my advanced age, and if I never go in another museum/church/temple for the rest of my life I am okay with that - for me it is the cultural differences that I enjoy, and for that you need to talk to (or have a drink with) the locals. I am going to try to figure out how to do it in the Land of Smiles.


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## Bobr

I've decided that learning Thai or "running" Thai on my brain is the equivalent of trying to run Apple software on an IBM style computer. It makes no sense to me, the explanations make no sense to me, the letters all look the same to me. Guess this dog is too old to learn a new trick.


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## Oneman

californiabeachboy said:


> I am curious as to how any expats who don't speak Thai manage to have local aquaintances when spending time there. ... I would be interested in knowing how do you connect with locals, either as friends or in terms of day to day conversations - coffee shops, etc.?


That's an excellent question for new expats here, and worth discussion.
At first, I wondered the same.
But now, after five years in Thailand, I've learned that Thais don't really have friendships as we do.
They don't just meet people in restaurants or bars as we might.
They rarely associate with other people just because they enjoy each other's company.

Instead, Thai friendships are based on some other factor: work, school, home neighborhood, family-connections, or coming from the same district up-country.
If they have connections like that, they are automatically friends.

Two examples to help explain:

When my Thai girl friend changed jobs all her "friends" changed, too.
Hardly any mention of the girls in the previous job, all her friends suddenly changed to be her new work-mates.

My Thai teacher takes his car for repair to a man who comes from the same district up-country.
I've seen the repair shop -- it's a total mess -- but there is a connection to "home".
I asked, and was told, "He comes from my district. If I go to a different shop, how do I know I can trust them?"

As a foreigner here, I've learned the easiest and quickest way to make Thai friends is to "hire" them.
That's right, I pay them to be friendly with me.
Sometimes directly, but, in some cases, in subtle or indirect ways.
I will explain: 

I hire a Thai woman to help me learn to read the language.
Because of that connection, she started considering herself my "friend", with suggestions about restaurants I might enjoy -- of course with her company.
And when I needed a lady companion for a social event -- and my regular girl friend had to work -- the language teacher was very happy to be my "friend".

A man who works in the apartment where I live is always "friendly".
One day he asked where I wanted to go sightseeing in the region.
Thais almost never ask a question without having a very good reason.
So when I told him my sightseeing destinations, he offered to drive me there in his car, on his day off, and act as my guide.
I didn't pay cash -- should have done so, but that was soon after I first arrived here and still had much to learn.
Of course, fuel and lunch and a few other items were on me.
But his main payment was in "face" with the other employees in the building, that I had selected him to be my guide for sightseeing.

A man about my age is manager of a foot massage shop in the mall.
Yes, I'm a customer of the shop, but, more than that, whenever I go in he is eager to talk with me, in English, in front of his staff.
Sometimes his English words don't make sense, but I nod and smile, and agree with everything he says -- and that gives him huge "face" in front of his employees.
He, too, considers himself my friend, and helps me with my language homework.
The money involved there is nothing more than the price of a foot massage, but I also "pay" by giving him "face".

Bottom line is that I've found it very easy to "hire" Thai friends by always thinking how can I make it worthwhile for them, either in money or some other way, such as in "face".
That approach has worked out very well.

But just casually meeting Thais in, say, a restaurant, and then becoming "friends" as we think of it, no, I don't see that happening at all.
In order to be "friendly", first there must be something in it for them.

-- Oneman
Chiangmai


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## Guest

Yes I agree to an extent - friends tend to come and go. And friendships resume as easily after a long break.

The fact that family is number one priority by a long way in Thailand, while in the West family ties are less valued (I'm referring to adult children/parent relationships here in particular), has something to do with this I reckon.


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## blue eyes

Oneman,
What you say does ring true with what I have learned in my time in Thailand.It seems that the Thais friends are for the moment and not for the long hall.Unless it is family or the neighbor from the village that they grew up in.I think when it comes to the people that you "buy"as friends it is more that they look up to you as some where between, on the scale from low life farmer to hi-so.You may be just above them, so to others they do gain face by being your "friend".If you understand what I am trying to say.


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## californiabeachboy

Thanks for the perspectives on connecting. I have lived in France and Australia, and it is always interesting to me how different cultures interact with foreigners. In France it was very difficult to make friends simply because, in my experience, most French make their friends very early in life and tend to stick with them. As they said in Seinfeld "I am not interviewing for friends now". But their friendship bonds are very close. 

In Australia, it was very easy to make new friends, as they to be so social (sorry for the generalizations in this). My Australian girlfriend was very social, and we would be constantly invited to dinner parties - not the chit-chat, eat, and go home type, but the long, coma-inducing dinner parties that would go on for hours, with many false endings just to tease you.

Actually the situations described by Oneman sound okay to me - more business relationships than friendships, but they work for both parties. I just want to avoid the situation that has occurred sometimes when I am solo and don't speak the language, where I go for days with little human interaction throughout the day. I would assume many expats in Thailand end up hanging out with other expats, unless they have a girlfriend/boyfriend.


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## Guest

I'm a bit uneasy about this much stereotyping of a very complicated issue. I suspect the (East-West) differences may not be as great as someone might be led to believe on reading the posts above. Yes I agree to an extent, but to take CBB's France as an example, the more I got to know the place, the greater the similarities I discovered between France and the UK.

Basic survival in Thailand is something most of us in the West have the luxury of not having to deal with. No government social support safety net in the Land of Smiles. This directly affects the relevance of friendships - they simply have to be mutually beneficial on a basis other than 'just getting on well'. On a cultural level family ties are stronger - because they have proved their worth in terms of survival benefits, this being reinforced by cultural responsibilities, and the sheer size of the extended family.

In the West increasing material wealth has led to the weakening of family ties for a large sector of society. Both parents and adult offspring can maintain independence without the direct financial support of the other. Yet an evolved drive to seek out useful close relationships still exists, hence the importance of friendships when there is a relative lack of family ties.

To take Oneman's gf as an example, when changing job. In a less affluent society, it is more useful to strike up new, mutually supportive relationships in your new work environment, than to maintain links with previous friends. The 'transactional' side to relationships is not specifically Thai - it's just more open and obvious in less prosperous nations (and poorer sectors of society within richer nations). Human nature, to sum up. No big difference between 'us' and 'them', in my view.

The 'mutually useful' relationship thing is equally obvious in Africa, South and Central America, as well as throughout Asia. In fact if we look closely at our our own friendships in the West, we can find both superficiality as well as relationships that are mutually useful for some reason or another. It's not for nothing that we have the expression _"blood is thicker than water"_.

Back to the original point - making friends boils down to being able to communicate and having the nous to know which acquaintances are out to exploit you without giving a fair return. The former is not easy in Thailand for obvious reasons, so either you can content yourself with more superficial contacts with locals and a certain amount of solitude, or you end up as part of an expat circle, or you have a Thai gf/spouse... or some combination of these. Mine is more 1) and 3) - I'm something of a loner anyway, and I didn't come here to end up in a British-style pub, having British conversations about soccer and the next elections, etc etc etc.


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## daddiOOO

*Paying for Freindship*



Oneman said:


> That's an excellent question for new expats here, and worth discussion.
> At first, I wondered the same.
> But now, after five years in Thailand, I've learned that Thais don't really have friendships as we do.
> They don't just meet people in restaurants or bars as we might.
> They rarely associate with other people just because they enjoy each other's company.
> 
> Instead, Thai friendships are based on some other factor: work, school, home neighborhood, family-connections, or coming from the same district up-country.
> If they have connections like that, they are automatically friends.
> 
> Two examples to help explain:
> 
> When my Thai girl friend changed jobs all her "friends" changed, too.
> Hardly any mention of the girls in the previous job, all her friends suddenly changed to be her new work-mates.
> 
> My Thai teacher takes his car for repair to a man who comes from the same district up-country.
> I've seen the repair shop -- it's a total mess -- but there is a connection to "home".
> I asked, and was told, "He comes from my district. If I go to a different shop, how do I know I can trust them?"
> 
> As a foreigner here, I've learned the easiest and quickest way to make Thai friends is to "hire" them.
> That's right, I pay them to be friendly with me.
> Sometimes directly, but, in some cases, in subtle or indirect ways.
> I will explain:
> 
> I hire a Thai woman to help me learn to read the language.
> Because of that connection, she started considering herself my "friend", with suggestions about restaurants I might enjoy -- of course with her company.
> And when I needed a lady companion for a social event -- and my regular girl friend had to work -- the language teacher was very happy to be my "friend".
> 
> A man who works in the apartment where I live is always "friendly".
> One day he asked where I wanted to go sightseeing in the region.
> Thais almost never ask a question without having a very good reason.
> So when I told him my sightseeing destinations, he offered to drive me there in his car, on his day off, and act as my guide.
> I didn't pay cash -- should have done so, but that was soon after I first arrived here and still had much to learn.
> Of course, fuel and lunch and a few other items were on me.
> But his main payment was in "face" with the other employees in the building, that I had selected him to be my guide for sightseeing.
> 
> A man about my age is manager of a foot massage shop in the mall.
> Yes, I'm a customer of the shop, but, more than that, whenever I go in he is eager to talk with me, in English, in front of his staff.
> Sometimes his English words don't make sense, but I nod and smile, and agree with everything he says -- and that gives him huge "face" in front of his employees.
> He, too, considers himself my friend, and helps me with my language homework.
> The money involved there is nothing more than the price of a foot massage, but I also "pay" by giving him "face".
> 
> Bottom line is that I've found it very easy to "hire" Thai friends by always thinking how can I make it worthwhile for them, either in money or some other way, such as in "face".
> That approach has worked out very well.
> 
> But just casually meeting Thais in, say, a restaurant, and then becoming "friends" as we think of it, no, I don't see that happening at all.
> In order to be "friendly", first there must be something in it for them.
> 
> -- Oneman
> Chiangmai


I agree with your observation Oneman. The Thai experience with Ferang is that the Ferang is a source of income with which they can support their family. It should not be confused with the western concept of love or freindship, although it can be similar...Quid Pro Quo.


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## daddiOOO

*who do Exats Socialize with*



californiabeachboy said:


> Thanks for the perspectives on connecting. I have lived in France and Australia, and it is always interesting to me how different cultures interact with foreigners. In France it was very difficult to make friends simply because, in my experience, most French make their friends very early in life and tend to stick with them. As they said in Seinfeld "I am not interviewing for friends now". But their friendship bonds are very close.
> 
> In Australia, it was very easy to make new friends, as they to be so social (sorry for the generalizations in this). My Australian girlfriend was very social, and we would be constantly invited to dinner parties - not the chit-chat, eat, and go home type, but the long, coma-inducing dinner parties that would go on for hours, with many false endings just to tease you.
> 
> Actually the situations described by Oneman sound okay to me - more business relationships than friendships, but they work for both parties. I just want to avoid the situation that has occurred sometimes when I am solo and don't speak the language, where I go for days with little human interaction throughout the day. I would assume many expats in Thailand end up hanging out with other expats, unless they have a girlfriend/boyfriend.


You got that right. I just stayed at a Guest House in Pattya operated by a Scot. I asked him that question"who do you socialize with more?". Without hesitation he answered "expats". I think the key here is "shared experience". A westerner is going to have more in common with another Ferang than with a Thai. It is interesting to note that the term "Ferang" does not apply to other Asians.


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## daddiOOO

*where do you socialize*



frogblogger said:


> I'm a bit uneasy about this much stereotyping of a very complicated issue. I suspect the (East-West) differences may not be as great as someone might be led to believe on reading the posts above. Yes I agree to an extent, but to take CBB's France as an example, the more I got to know the place, the greater the similarities I discovered between France and the UK.
> 
> Basic survival in Thailand is something most of us in the West have the luxury of not having to deal with. No government social support safety net in the Land of Smiles. This directly affects the relevance of friendships - they simply have to be mutually beneficial on a basis other than 'just getting on well'. On a cultural level family ties are stronger - because they have proved their worth in terms of survival benefits, this being reinforced by cultural responsibilities, and the sheer size of the extended family.
> 
> In the West increasing material wealth has led to the weakening of family ties for a large sector of society. Both parents and adult offspring can maintain independence without the direct financial support of the other. Yet an evolved drive to seek out useful close relationships still exists, hence the importance of friendships when there is a relative lack of family ties.
> 
> To take Oneman's gf as an example, when changing job. In a less affluent society, it is more useful to strike up new, mutually supportive relationships in your new work environment, than to maintain links with previous friends. The 'transactional' side to relationships is not specifically Thai - it's just more open and obvious in less prosperous nations (and poorer sectors of society within richer nations). Human nature, to sum up. No big difference between 'us' and 'them', in my view.
> 
> The 'mutually useful' relationship thing is equally obvious in Africa, South and Central America, as well as throughout Asia. In fact if we look closely at our our own friendships in the West, we can find both superficiality as well as relationships that are mutually useful for some reason or another. It's not for nothing that we have the expression _"blood is thicker than water"_.
> 
> Back to the original point - making friends boils down to being able to communicate and having the nous to know which acquaintances are out to exploit you without giving a fair return. The former is not easy in Thailand for obvious reasons, so either you can content yourself with more superficial contacts with locals and a certain amount of solitude, or you end up as part of an expat circle, or you have a Thai gf/spouse... or some combination of these. Mine is more 1) and 3) - I'm something of a loner anyway, and I didn't come here to end up in a British-style pub, having British conversations about soccer and the next elections, etc etc etc.


"Stereotyping"? yes...but based on observation. You said you did not want to hang out in a "British style pub, having British conversations", does that mean you go to a Thai club and socialize with Thais? I am not trying to get personal here. You did say you were a bit of a loner. and a British Pub is going to cost more( I did a little research)to hang out in. Where do Thais hang out to socialize?


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## Guest

daddiOOO said:


> I agree with your observation Oneman. The Thai experience with Ferang is that the Ferang is a source of income with which they can support their family. It should not be confused with the western concept of love or freindship, although it can be similar...Quid Pro Quo.


Don't know how long you've spent in Thailand daddiOOO, but it's best not to come out with generalisations about a whole nation and its people. Some of us have had different experiences, and found a darn sight more love and friendship than they ever came close to having with a Western girl. This and other forums are full of contributions from farangs who have found happiness in Thailand. Sure there are plenty who have had bad experiences too, but best not to stereotype, eh?


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## Guest

daddiOOO said:


> "Stereotyping"? yes...but based on observation. You said you did not want to hang out in a "British style pub, having British conversations", does that mean you go to a Thai club and socialize with Thais? I am not trying to get personal here. You did say you were a bit of a loner. and a British Pub is going to cost more( I did a little research)to hang out in. Where do Thais hang out to socialize?


Mainly spent time with Thai family and friends, eating and drinking with Thais in areas of Chiang Mai where you see few if any farangs. CM isn't like Pattaya - it doesn't depend on tourism for survival, and even if there are a few areas where you can't get away from farangs, in most of the town you never see any, indeed most Thais have not so much as ever spoken to a farang.

Pattaya isn't Thailand, it's a special case. Don't like it at all, myself.


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## Acid_Crow

Most of my thai-friends I know through my wife, or through my business. Many of them have businesses of their own, and that has worked out best for me. When we are equal economically there is no pressure on me to always be the one who ends up with the bill.

I had more friends before, but many of them would keep sugesting that we go to bars and resturants, where I would have to pay ofcourse. That ended up beeing to expensive for me, so Iv'e cut the contact with those. Simply by not going out anymore, those who've wanted to use me arn't interested in me anymore.

So now I'm left with fewer friends, but with good ones that I trust, that I can share a meal and drink with, and have fun conversation with all night.


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## Guest

Acid_Crow said:


> Most of my thai-friends I know through my wife, or through my business. Many of them have businesses of their own, and that has worked out best for me. When we are equal economically there is no pressure on me to always be the one who ends up with the bill.
> 
> I had more friends before, but many of them would keep sugesting that we go to bars and resturants, where I would have to pay ofcourse. That ended up beeing to expensive for me, so Iv'e cut the contact with those. Simply by not going out anymore, those who've wanted to use me arn't interested in me anymore.
> 
> So now I'm left with fewer friends, but with good ones that I trust, that I can share a meal and drink with, and have fun conversation with all night.


Good point AC - it's not the hanger's on syndrome that you get in the West, it's something that happens amongst Thais too with the one with the most 'status' getting to pay the bill. But it still has the same wallet-emptying effect!

Funnily enough quite a few of the Thais I got to know don't do this... maybe I look poor or something  Seriously though, those of them with good jobs are quite happy to pay, especially with a farang in the entourage. Lots of face gained.


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## Winkie

My opinion is a little different, but I do not totally disagree with what has been said.

However, I think the relationships referred to in the above postings, are what we in the West would call Aquaintences. Friendships in Thailand are quite similar to friendships in the West. I have friendships extending back 20 years with Thai people, they do not depend on me for anything. However, if some of them did, it would make a difference. Remember, 'A Friend in need, is a friend indeed'. I know for a fact, that some of them I could certainly turn to for big help if ever needed.

Not so sure that there really is much of a diffierence really.

Winkie


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## KhwaamLap

Winkie said:


> My opinion is a little different, but I do not totally disagree with what has been said.
> 
> However, I think the relationships referred to in the above postings, are what we in the West would call Aquaintences. Friendships in Thailand are quite similar to friendships in the West. I have friendships extending back 20 years with Thai people, they do not depend on me for anything. However, if some of them did, it would make a difference. Remember, 'A Friend in need, is a friend indeed'. I know for a fact, that some of them I could certainly turn to for big help if ever needed.
> 
> Not so sure that there really is much of a diffierence really.
> 
> Winkie


 
Yeah I must say I agree with this. I have Thai friends I've known for years (I went to school with oine Thai kid and still coiunt him as one of my best friends). I* have other 'friends' who I know from bars, from business with them (like shopkeepers that I regularly frequesnt) and at work, but I would no more call these true friends than I would my work colleagues back in the UK.

There is a concept here that doesn't follow in the west. Its called Poo Yai. Poo Yai is the "big person". Everyone, on meeting is sized up, and if you are seen as "bigger" (higher - maybe older, wealthier, more powerful, have better contacts, are the customer or boss, etc) they youi become "poo yai". Poo Yai's usualy pay for entertainment (like the bar tab), becasue they are in a position too and because it gives them kudos. Thais will often see us westerners as Poo Yai and when/if we invite people out for a meal, then they assume you are buying. This is very Thai, and not just a farang rip-off. Allthough going-dutch is also starting to catch on (they sometimes call it American-Bill !).

There is another concept that is much harder to explain propery. Its KrungJai. Thais will try to avoid offending you or even hurting your feelings. Tellingyou that your dog was run over yesterday would hurt your feelings, soi they will let you keep searching and offering rewards although they all know its dead. In the same way they will often "be your friend" if you ask, but this does not make it a true friendship - and often they will say they will meet you and just not turn up, this is to save face (yours!) Freindships can be hard to fathom here, but they do happen.

However, mjost real freinds are long time friends with history, very hard to just create the same atmosphere in a pub meet.


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## californiabeachboy

I do agree with the distinction between friends and acquaintances. Having lived in France and Australia in addition to my home country, I think true friendships are pretty much the same all over the world. Acquaintances are different. Here in prosperous California, they tend to be based more on activities than on money. I have varous acquaintances, those I go running with, watch a football game with etc. 

I see a lot off criticisms on all the forums of locals (particularly local women) who only see farangs as an ATM. But it is hard for me to imagine being in middle age, with no social security, medicare, etc., and possibly elderly parents to take care of - I assume I would naturally gravitate to people who could help me survive in old age. I don't see anything wrong with that. I have a female friend here in Yankee land who loves ridiculously expensive purses. We always go dutch - I have a problem with contributing to a $1000 purse! (love the name American-Bill for going dutch - apparently named after me)


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