# Moving to US on a work permit



## Geil (10 mo ago)

Hi All,

My company is relocating me from Germany to their US office as a permanent employee. The US HR office said that the work permit processing can take up-to 90 days.

I have got two questions:

- In my current bank account in Germany, I have X-thousand Euros, which I have earned/saved through my German salaries. Now lets say I move to the US on 1 July 2022 and have all my savings transferred from my German bank account to the Bank account in the US. The question is at the end of the year, when I would file for my tax return in the US, I would only need to declare or pay taxes on the amount of money that I have earned (salaries) in the US (1 July - 31 Dec 2022)? In other words, US would not charge me additional taxes on the amount of money I brought with me from Germany as I already had paid taxes on that amount to the German government?
1 Jan 2022 - 30 June 2022: worked only in Germany and paid taxes
1 July 2022 - 31 Dec 2022: would be working only in the US.

- Second questions: What would be my legal status (NRA or RA) if I move to the US on July 1 vs Aug 1?
If one has an NRA status, does it have any implications on the way ones salary is computed / taxed?

I just Googled to check and calculate my net salary. I came across this website: Missouri Salary Paycheck Calculator

There is an attribute there "Federal Filing Status - non Resident Alien" vs "Federal Filing Status - married".
When i chose non-resident Alien, it had a significant impact on my monthly salary, it went down like 700 net monthly USD!

So the question is is it true, that if one has NRA status, then you pay more tax?
Also it would be great if someone could point me to the right net monthly salary calculator. I have found different results from different website. Lets say, I have 140k USD as my base annual salary (bonus comes on top, but lets keep it aside for the monthly salary calculation). How much would i expect as my net monthly salary? I am married, spouse would not be working atleast when we move and have 2 kids (10y, 6y). 

many thanks.


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## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

Just a quick note on the NRA status - it stands for Non-resident Alien and as an NRA, you are taxed only on your US source income - and generally at a flat rate of 30%. (There are a few - very few - exceptions and allowances.) But as the term says, you are an NRA only when you are non-resident in the US.

I think you will be something called a "dual status" taxpayer in your first year - though if you have no US source income before you arrive in the US, it may just be that you only file for the period from your arrival date to December 31st.


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## Crawford (Jan 23, 2011)

You don't pay taxes on any savings you bring into the US - as you say these are after tax savings (you've paid tax to the German government)

You'll pay taxes on your US income from date of your arrival in US - on a work permit you are a resident alien and you pay taxes.


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## Geil (10 mo ago)

Bevdeforges said:


> Just a quick note on the NRA status - it stands for Non-resident Alien and as an NRA, you are taxed only on your US source income - and generally at a flat rate of 30%. (There are a few - very few - exceptions and allowances.) But as the term says, you are an NRA only when you are non-resident in the US.


Many thanks for your reply.
My high-level understanding is that one needs to fulfill 183 days during the first year in order to get the RA status. If I arrive July 1st in the US, 183 days would be completed on 31 Dec. However, if I arrive later, it will spill over to the next year where each days is count as 1/3 and then 1/6 the year after.

Now, if the 183 days condition is not met in the first year of arrive, i will be charged/taxed with an NRA status, which as you said is 30% flat which turns out to be more than what i would have been charged on my salary with RA. I am only saying this because when i calculate the salary with simple (Federal Filing Status - married) the monthly salary shows 700$ less compared to Federal Filing Status - non Resident Alien.

I am not sure how this all works, but it seems a bit weird that you loose that much even though your base salary is the same, you are in the US with a legal status, have a permanent job but still earning less than someone who has an RA and has the same annual package.

I don't know how it would work out in the end or maybe my assumption is incorrect above. We'll see. I will also check with the company lawyer.

Do you recommend any Net salary calculator, which gives realistic estimates..
Thanks.


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## Geil (10 mo ago)

Crawford said:


> You'll pay taxes on your US income from date of your arrival in US - on a work permit you are a resident alien and you pay taxes.


How would I be a resident alien when I arrive to the US? Isn't it something they determine after the year end when tax return is filed? Also i am not sure how will I be taxed on my monthly lets say if I arrive in Aug (NRA rate or RA rate)..

I accepted the offer only 2 days ago. Not sure if company get everything processed/sorted on the permit front within the next 90 days. Even though the relocation is all covered by the company, but I find it challenging from a logistical stand point to be in the US on or before July 1st.

Does it really make sense to target July 1st as an arrival data or it would not make any big difference if lets say i arrive US on Aug 1st? Honestly, I am not clear what i will loose or gain in this case.. 

Maybe if there is a clear value in arriving by 1st July, then perhaps, I need to think and approach the HR office a bit differently.

Other area is the children's school, which i believe starting from last week of Aug. I think by then we shall make it.

Thanks.


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## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

Take a look at this page from the IRS website. Dual Status Individuals | Internal Revenue Service

It doesn't matter if you don't spend 183 days in the US in your first tax year (i.e. calendar year). Given that you plan on remaining you can simply start filing as a resident that first year.

US tax is not easy. There are lots of options and choices that they leave up to you. And don't forget that what your employer withholds for taxes is based on what you tell them to withhold. It is not necessarily the amount you ultimately wind up paying for your taxes.


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## Geil (10 mo ago)

Bevdeforges said:


> Take a look at this page from the IRS website. Dual Status Individuals | Internal Revenue Service


Thanks for your reply, again!
I am not sure in what situation I can get into this Dual status situation.

it says:
_"..You can be both a nonresident and a resident for U.S. tax purposes during the same tax year. This usually occurs in the year you arrive or depart from the United States. If so, you need to file a dual-status income tax return." _

If it has anything to do with: living "31 days during the current year", then I shall definitely be in the US for more than 31 days in my first year. 



Bevdeforges said:


> It doesn't matter if you don't spend 183 days in the US in your first tax year (i.e. calendar year). Given that you plan on remaining you can simply start filing as a resident that first year.


I think, i got it confused earlier!
This Determining an Individual’s Tax Residency Status gives me a good picture of my situation.
I believe, I would get a green card (perhaps a conditional one for 2 year in the beginning) and with that i will move to the US. With that I would be treated as a permanent resident of the United States from day one and hence fulfilling the "green card" test. 

Or I don't see not fulfilling the requirement of "Substantial Presence Test" during the first 3 years.

Either way, I don't see myself in a "non-resident alien" situation anymore when it comes to filing my tax return. Specially, since, i won't be moving back and forth after my relocation to the US. 
Sorry for creating the confusion myself in the first place! Or maybe i am confusing it further!




Bevdeforges said:


> US tax is not easy. There are lots of options and choices that they leave up to you. And don't forget that what your employer withholds for taxes is based on what you tell them to withhold. It is not necessarily the amount you ultimately wind up paying for your taxes.


The first two years, the company will support me in filing my tax return in the US and also in Germany for the year i transition to the US.

Since we are in the moving to the US thread, maybe i can ask another question in this context.

- I own a car worth approx. 33k € (model 2018). The company says, as part of the relocation, they will not support moving the car to the US. They said I will have to arrange myself if I want to bring the car with me.

So I would like to get some advice on this topic:
- Would i be better off selling the car here in Germany (for lets say 28-30k €, i would not have much time to get a good market deal)
- Or exporting it to the US is also a feasible option? How easy/difficult this process can be? Also from a cost perspective, I have no clue how would it look like with import duties on the car etc.

Many thanks,


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## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

Shipping a European car to the US is going to be a major hassle and a half. It certainly is going the other way around. People often think that if they own a German-made car (for example) that shipping it from the US to Germany should be a breeze. Problem is that cars sold in the US are built to US safety (and other) standards, while cars built for sale in Germany are built to European/German standards. The standards are different and usually require significant replacement of things like windshields, seat belts, safety glass, even sometimes cruise control and other electronic systems in the car.

Sell your car in Germany and then buy a similar model in the US to replace it. That will save you major time and hassle in both the long and short runs.


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## Geil (10 mo ago)

Bevdeforges said:


> Shipping a European car to the US is going to be a major hassle and a half. It certainly is going the other way around. People often think that if they own a German-made car (for example) that shipping it from the US to Germany should be a breeze. Problem is that cars sold in the US are built to US safety (and other) standards, while cars built for sale in Germany are built to European/German standards. The standards are different and usually require significant replacement of things like windshields, seat belts, safety glass, even sometimes cruise control and other electronic systems in the car.
> 
> Sell your car in Germany and then buy a similar model in the US to replace it. That will save you major time and hassle in both the long and short runs.


Thanks for a quick update.

I would assume that in the US the same German model car would cost the same if not less.


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## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

Geil said:


> I would assume that in the US the same German model car would cost the same if not less.


Hard to say - depends on some of the actual differences between the US and German safety standards. Also, there's no VAT in the US so that's a distinct savings.


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## Crawford (Jan 23, 2011)

_I believe, I would get a green card (perhaps a conditional one for 2 year in the beginning) and with that i will move to the US. With that I would be treated as a permanent resident of the United States from day one and hence fulfilling the "green card" test._

Under what category are you moving to the US with your company? Most people being transferred do so on an L1 visa, then, after some time in the US, the company sponsors them for a green card which can take anything from 6 to 12 months to get.
In my case I entered on an L1, my company applied for a green card 6 months after I arrived, and the card was issued 12 months after that.
What is this conditional one you talk about?

There ARE visa which get you a Green card immediately through employment - EB1/2/3's Are you getting one of these?









Green Card for Employment-Based Immigrants | USCIS


ALERT: You should include your



www.uscis.gov


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## Crawford (Jan 23, 2011)

Bevdeforges said:


> Hard to say - depends on some of the actual differences between the US and German safety standards. Also, there's no VAT in the US so that's a distinct savings.


There is sales tax though... and in today's market many new cars are being sold with a mark up.... in my local area the local Merc garage is upselling by 10%


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## Crawford (Jan 23, 2011)

_Either way, I don't see myself in a "non-resident alien" situation anymore when it comes to filing my tax return. Specially, since, i won't be moving back and forth after my relocation to the US._ 

Neither your state nor the tax man will consider you a 'non-resident alien' once you enter the US to work on a work permit. Whether or not you pay full taxes on your income from July/August to December (doubtful) will be determined from your first tax return which you complete in 2023.


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## Crawford (Jan 23, 2011)

Would you say your situation is somewhat similar to Example 8 (in US on work permit) in following website:






Tax Residency Status Examples | Internal Revenue Service


The following are examples of the application of the tax residency rules to aliens in various situations.




www.irs.gov


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## twostep (Apr 3, 2008)

School
The US system differs considerably from the German one. Enrollment outside the official term is no problem. You are aware that your physical address decides which the public school your child will attend?

Vehicle
Shipping is not the only factor. You will find it not only pricey but also almost impossible to get the required modifications done AND the required documentation especially for a relatively newer model.

Status
You take up residence when you arrive at your destination.

Greencard
You are a long way from it. Clear that with your employer and document it in your contract.

Taxes
Generally moving assistance is considered income. Have you secured comparative tax processing and reimbursement?

Nick
Personally I find it inappropriate.


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## Geil (10 mo ago)

Crawford said:


> _I believe, I would get a green card (perhaps a conditional one for 2 year in the beginning) and with that i will move to the US. With that I would be treated as a permanent resident of the United States from day one and hence fulfilling the "green card" test._
> 
> Under what category are you moving to the US with your company? Most people being transferred do so on an L1 visa, then, after some time in the US, the company sponsors them for a green card which can take anything from 6 to 12 months to get.
> In my case I entered on an L1, my company applied for a green card 6 months after I arrived, and the card was issued 12 months after that.
> ...


Sorry for replying late. I did not get any alert for a new message.

I will get clarification from the HR legal depart soon about the type of visa/permit I will get.
Only thing i know is that the job offer is of type "Permanent Transfer to the US". The job offer is not time bound. 
What type of permit/via the company gets me, the details are not shared with me yet. But will be provided soon. I will get back as soon as i have more detail. Thanks.


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## Geil (10 mo ago)

Crawford said:


> Would you say your situation is somewhat similar to Example 8 (in US on work permit) in following website:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


...
*Example 8*
S was a citizen and resident of a foreign country who had never been to the United States prior to arriving 08-15-2020 as a professor on an H-1b visa. S intends to remain in the United States for two academic years and does not intend to change immigration status before returning home. Determine S’s residency starting date.

...

_"S intends to remain in the United States for two academic years and does not intend to change immigration status before returning home"_

This part is not true. My intentions are to stay in the US and also the position I have been offered is not time restrictive. It's a permanent position without any time clause. I have the same position is Germany, my roles and responsibilities are going to be the same, it's just that the position was advertised (based on mutual consent) in the US location and then i took up this position. You can say that I was interested in moving to the US, my manager also wanted me to expand the footprint in the US office and hence the position was created and given to me.

Now back to this "dual-status tax return "´. I am again slightly confused. 
If for whatever reason, i get into this category for my first year:
*For the Part of the Year You are a U.S. Resident Alien
For the Part of the Year You are a Nonresident Alien*

But then it contradicts with the statement you/others made earlier:
_"Neither your state nor the tax man will consider you a 'non-resident alien' once you enter the US to work on a work permit "
Or I will always be considered as resident alien the time I land in the US._

If I arrive in July/August sometime, for which period of the time in 2022, I will be considered as non-resident alien?


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## Geil (10 mo ago)

twostep said:


> School
> The US system differs considerably from the German one. Enrollment outside the official term is no problem. You are aware that your physical address decides which the public school your child will attend?
> 
> Vehicle
> ...


Thanks for your reply.
School: Yes, I know. We are offered a house and school search trip by the company before the final move. So our intention would be to pick a house location and the surrounding school during this trip.

Taxes: Yes, the company will provide assistance in this regard. 

Nick: I did not get it?!


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## Geil (10 mo ago)

Regarding the federal and state(Missouri) taxes, my understanding is that if one is "married (single spouse working)" then you pay less taxes than someone who is single and have the same annual gross salary.


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## Geil (10 mo ago)

Another area where I am seeking some advice is in the area of Medical Plan Options offered. The initial information I have as part of the offer includes these medical plan options:

I believe these are private health insurance options.

What is generally the rule of thumb when it comes to picking an option. I am married (wife and myself in late 30s and early 40s respectively, two young kids 6y, 10y).

What is "in-network" and "out-of-network"? Is it like you visit a doctor in your area (proximity to your house) then it is considered "in-network" vs when you visit a doctor, which is e.g. 50miles away from our home address then it is considered as "out-of-network"?

Now, lets say, if I go for the option "Aetna or Anthem 90% PPO Plan Option", then I will be paying 66

If look in my salary calculation above, there is a deduction for Medicare (1.45%). Is it (Medicare) a public health offer? Is it a mandatory deduction even if you have a private one (like from the medial plan options)? 665.23 USD per month plus copays (for in-network). And in case of out-of-network, I will have to pay on top, 70% of the consultation fee?

The Annual Deduction comes on top e.g. 90% PPO of 1000USD family? What is Medical Coinsurance here? Are these additional (one-off) costs that come on top of my monthly payments (665.23 USD)? Also, for Prescription Drugs, maximum contributions out-of-pocket would be 1400 USD. Is it annual? And Annual out of pocket maximum (excluding pres. drugs) could be 3000 USD family?

In short, If i need to get some approx. number as to what I would need to be paying for the monthly health insurance and then one-off annual cost (max), how much that could be given this tables above (attachments).

Maybe asking all this above at this forum sounds silly! I am not expecting here any precise numbers but just some guidance in terms of picking a plan and then some cost estimate. I have also requested my HR office to have a short session explaining all these medical options. Thanks.


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## twostep (Apr 3, 2008)

Medical coverage: HR will go over the details and options with you. With nothing to go by but what you posted here an answer is a guess at best.


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## Crawford (Jan 23, 2011)

Geil said:


> ...
> *Example 8*
> S was a citizen and resident of a foreign country who had never been to the United States prior to arriving 08-15-2020 as a professor on an H-1b visa. S intends to remain in the United States for two academic years and does not intend to change immigration status before returning home. Determine S’s residency starting date.
> 
> ...



The fact you are making this a permanent move is irrelevant to what visa you may be getting. In the example above the prof is getting an H-1B which means that he COULD if he wanted to apply for permanent residency (ie. go for a green card) at some time even though currently his intention if to remain only for 2 years. Some people move over on the E-2 intending to stay permanently but this visa means you have to re-apply every 2 years. You are being transferred so I would presume you would obtain and L-1. (could be a different one if you are opening up a new office)
Don't know why you are so worried about being non or resident alien in your first year. It will all be sorted out with your first tax return and if you have paid too much you'll get a refund.


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## Geil (10 mo ago)

Crawford said:


> The fact you are making this a permanent move is irrelevant to what visa you may be getting. In the example above the prof is getting an H-1B which means that he COULD if he wanted to apply for permanent residency (ie. go for a green card) at some time even though currently his intention if to remain only for 2 years. Some people move over on the E-2 intending to stay permanently but this visa means you have to re-apply every 2 years. You are being transferred so I would presume you would obtain and L-1. (could be a different one if you are opening up a new office)





Crawford said:


> Don't know why you are so worried about being non or resident alien in your first year. It will all be sorted out with your first tax return and if you have paid too much you'll get a refund.


Thanks for replying.

If for the year 2022, my tax status is non-resident alien then each month i would be charged with 700+USD more than if let's say my status was resident alien during the same time.

According to the provided example, the prof can become resident alien during the year 2023, and then his resident alien status would be counted from 1 Jan 2023.

If for the first 4-5 months, my or prof status is non-resident alien, then why would you say that i would not be charged/taxed with the non-alien rate for the period of Aug 2022 - Dec 31, 2022? Or refunded 700 x 5 USD when i file for the tax return in early 2023 sometime?

Also i have read people saying, my status would always be resident alien the time I land in the US! I don't know why there is a confusion...Infact if i am not wrong you mentioned it in your earlier response as well.

I am not worried, it's just that i am trying to understand the law!


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## Crawford (Jan 23, 2011)

Geil said:


> Another area where I am seeking some advice is in the area of Medical Plan Options offered. The initial information I have as part of the offer includes these medical plan options:
> 
> I believe these are private health insurance options.
> 
> ...


You will be accessing a GROUP plan organised with your company.

With all plans you get a list of doctors in your area that you can consult - this is 'in-network' These doctors have agreed special terms with your health plan. The attachment shows how much you pay for seeing an in-network doctor and how much you pay for an out of network doctor. Out of network will cost you a lot more Yes, if you go to out of network consultants YOU will pay 70% of the cost.
Medicare is a mandated payroll tax which builds up to allow you to access Medicare when you are 65. (Senior Government run health plan - mandated)
In the 90% Anthem plan you'll pay 665.23 per month to cover your family. The plan will start paying after YOU have spend $1.000 for in network consults/treatment or $2,000 for out of network
Co-pay is where you pay a charge for each visit to a doctor - $20 and $40 in the case of this plan
Co-insurance is how much the plan pays per visit/treatment. In the case of this plan 90%
Out of pocket max is the sum you will pay in total per year for costs in addition to premiums
Prescription charges are usually on top of premiums.
Can't give how much you will pay annually, as who knows how many times you'll e going to the doctors, but based on the figures in the chart you will _definitely_ be paying $665.23 per month, and _possib_ly $1,000 for deductibles plus 1,400 for prescription deductibles for a total of out of pocket expenses of $3,000

Pretty standard really..... you can also get HSA plans - lower monthly premiums, but high deductibles but attached to a savings plan - speak to your HR ......


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## Geil (10 mo ago)

Crawford said:


> You will be accessing a GROUP plan organised with your company.
> 
> With all plans you get a list of doctors in your area that you can consult - this is 'in-network' These doctors have agreed special terms with your health plan. The attachment shows how much you pay for seeing an in-network doctor and how much you pay for an out of network doctor. Out of network will cost you a lot more Yes, if you go to out of network consultants YOU will pay 70% of the cost.
> Medicare is a mandated payroll tax which builds up to allow you to access Medicare when you are 65. (Senior Government run health plan - mandated)
> ...


Many thanks for the explanation - much appreciated.



Crawford said:


> ...
> In the 90% Anthem plan you'll pay 665.23 per month to cover your family. The plan will start paying after YOU have spend $1.000 for in network consults/treatment or $2,000 for out of network
> Co-pay is where you pay a charge for each visit to a doctor - $20 and $40 in the case of this plan...
> 
> ...Can't give how much you will pay annually, as who knows how many times you'll e going to the doctors, but based on the figures in the chart you will _definitely_ be paying $665.23 per month, and _possib_ly $1,000 for deductibles plus 1,400 for prescription deductibles for a total of out of pocket expenses of $3,000


So this 1k USD is the sum of these visits to doctors - $20 and $40 and the first 1400USD that i pay on prescription drugs?

And after I have spent 3k out of pocket, everything is paid for by the insurance?
What if we don't have too many visits to the doctor and/or on prescription drugs during the year? Does that mean we might not be paying this 1k and 1.4k or 3k max?

Just as an example, lets say during an entire year, we in my family visit only 4times standard diagnostic doctor in the in-network area and pay 50usd for the prescription drugs during these visits.

Does that mean, we will be paying only 20 x 4 + 50 usd = 130 USD?
Or this 1k and 1.4k must be paid regardless.


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## Geil (10 mo ago)

twostep said:


> School
> The US system differs considerably from the German one. Enrollment outside the official term is no problem. You are aware that your physical address decides which the public school your child will attend?
> 
> Vehicle
> ...



Regarding taxes, here is what I have got from the HR office:

Most of the items are subject to tax gross-up (paid by company as what I have understood), so i guess I am good here.
Company also offer in addition (cash) Relocation Allowance, which is not grossed up, but that is fine.


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## Crawford (Jan 23, 2011)

Geil said:


> Many thanks for the explanation - much appreciated.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You plan has a deductible of $1,000 per annum for doctors/consultants (in network). 
You have to think of this as the the amount YOU have to pay before your plan starts paying for anything. There are some anomalies to this in that some charges are put towards your deductibles and you'll only pay part of the doctor/treatment charge
So, simply put, say someone in your household goes to the standard primary doctor 3 times, and each charge is $150 so that's $450 down to you. Then someone goes to a consultant, another $350 down to you. You've now reached $800 of your annual deductible. If no-one goes to the doctors ever again in that year, you won't pay out anymore except your premiums. If someone goes another 2 times to the doctor at $150 a pop (which now takes your costs up to $1,100 ) you'll pay $200 and the plan will pay $100.
After you have fulfilled the Deductible requirement you pay your $20 or $40 per visit for any additional doctor visits/treatment plus the 10% of the full cost of the visit as your plan pay 90%
Same with prescription charges - although different drugs are on different payment levels so this can get complicated.

After Out of Pocket costs for doctors/treatment reaches $3,000 per annum the insurance company pays 100% of all costs.

Note that deductibles and out of pockets costs are annual - everything goes back to zero each year.


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## Geil (10 mo ago)

Crawford said:


> You plan has a deductible of $1,000 per annum for doctors/consultants (in network).
> You have to think of this as the the amount YOU have to pay before your plan starts paying for anything. There are some anomalies to this in that some charges are put towards your deductibles and you'll only pay part of the doctor/treatment charge
> So, simply put, say someone in your household goes to the standard primary doctor 3 times, and each charge is $150 so that's $450 down to you. Then someone goes to a consultant, another $350 down to you. You've now reached $800 of your annual deductible. If no-one goes to the doctors ever again in that year, you won't pay out anymore except your premiums. If someone goes another 2 times to the doctor at $150 a pop (which now takes your costs up to $1,100 ) you'll pay $200 and the plan will pay $100.
> After you have fulfilled the Deductible requirement you pay your $20 or $40 per visit for any additional doctor visits/treatment plus the 10% of the full cost of the visit as your plan pay 90%
> ...


Very well explained! And many thanks!
However, on the contrary, I must say this is a rip-off compared to how health insurance works here in Germany!


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## Crawford (Jan 23, 2011)

Geil said:


> Very well explained! And many thanks!
> However, on the contrary, I must say this is a rip-off compared to how health insurance works here in Germany!


.... and how it works in most countries - but it is what it is. 

I must say that I have had 2 serious operations and both the pre-op, hospitalisation and after care was excellent.


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## Geil (10 mo ago)

Crawford said:


> .... and how it works in most countries - but it is what it is.
> 
> I must say that I have had 2 serious operations and both the pre-op, hospitalisation and after care was excellent.


I just said that in the context of German health insurance premium vs USA's, but otherwise, I shouldn't be complaining.

Since, this is not a thread about German vs USA's health insurance, so I take my earlier remark back - I shouldn't have said it!


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## twostep (Apr 3, 2008)

Geil said:


> Very well explained! And many thanks!
> However, on the contrary, I must say this is a rip-off compared to how health insurance works here in Germany!


You might be surprised about the quality and speed of care compared to Germany.


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## twostep (Apr 3, 2008)

Geil said:


> Thanks for replying.
> 
> If for the year 2022, my tax status is non-resident alien then each month i would be charged with 700+USD more than if let's say my status was resident alien during the same time.
> 
> ...


You have a work authorization, you live in the US, you are a resident alien. You are required to file income tax. Depending on your state Federal and state.


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## Geil (10 mo ago)

Geil said:


> Sorry for replying late. I did not get any alert for a new message.
> 
> I will get clarification from the HR legal depart soon about the type of visa/permit I will get.
> Only thing i know is that the job offer is of type "Permanent Transfer to the US". The job offer is not time bound.
> What type of permit/via the company gets me, the details are not shared with me yet. But will be provided soon. I will get back as soon as i have more detail. Thanks.


So I have got confirmation from the HR office about the type of visa I will get for the US.

It is: "L-1B (category Blanket)" for me and "L-2 (category Blanket)" for my family.

I have already started with the process. Filled-out and submitted the DS-160 form, working on the application package/documents together the Law firm who is supporting me with the application submitting.
I have also checked for the visa appointment schedule at the US Consulate in Frankfurt, and they are offering me an appointment with a gap of 4-5 days when one checks for an available slot.

I have not booked the slot yet, as the law firm compiling all the required documents/questionnaire that I have submitted in their portal. As soon as I receive the compiled application package delivered to me by the law firm in the US, I will then book an appointment slot. I believe after the visa interview at the US consulate, I shall get the L1 visa within a few days.

This L1 is a non-immigrant visa, but my understanding is that it can be converted/ or I can get onto the immigrant track after 5 years, if I want to stay in the US, which is my long term plan as of now.

I have not checked with the law firm on the topic of "resident and non-resident alien" topic from a tax perspective in the context of L1 visa as of now.


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## Geil (10 mo ago)

There is a parallel thread I am working on which is in the context of "Moving Household Goods".
My company has offered me two options.

Option 1—relocation company arranges my professional household goods move. The benefit covers packing/loading, pickup, transportation of goods, typical customs/import duties, delivery with a partial unpack. Storage for up to 30 days is available in the US through the mover’s storage facility.

Option 2— Cash in lieu of Household Goods Shipment and air shipment of one ‘D’ container.

Allowance equal to cost of one-way HHG shipment. May still choose to use D container for air shipment.
For any shipments other than the D container air shipment, all customs/import duties, related paperwork, etc., would be my responsibility.

--

I am more inclined with the option 2, as the cash option is more attractive. I am willing to discard/sell off heavy items (mainly furniture and entire kitchen (fridge, freezer, dishwasher/washing machine etc.)).

I will mainly be shipping on my own the clothing, children toys, TVs, some kitchen utensils and not as such heavy items.
Rough estimate is some 7-8 suitcases plus 10-12 large cartons, 2 large TVs etc. 
I believe if I allocate 5-6k USD that should be enough for shipping/cargo these items from Germany to USA (Missouri)?
Should I expect big custom duty on these items? 

Additionally, i am getting one D-container option from company with custom/duties covered. There i am thinking of putting some expensive items (shoes/bags - wife's stuff!)

Does this plan sound good or do i need to watch out for something else as well?

many thanks.


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## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

Regarding your options for your moving costs: just be aware that if the company pays your moving costs, It goes much more simply for US income taxes. Under option 2, you need to declare the cash payment and then deduct actual moving costs incurred. So ultimately you pay US income tax on any "excess" if you're planning on moving for less than the amount you've been paid. 

There is enough trauma involved with an international move that even just not having to track all the costs you incur might well be worth letting the employer handle the whole thing/mess for you. Obviously, up to you.


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## twostep (Apr 3, 2008)

Your appliances will not work in the US to start with. Generally kitchens are furnished including appliances. Why are you shipping TVs?


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## Geil (10 mo ago)

Bevdeforges said:


> Regarding your options for your moving costs: just be aware that if the company pays your moving costs, It goes much more simply for US income taxes. Under option 2, you need to declare the cash payment and then deduct actual moving costs incurred. So ultimately you pay US income tax on any "excess" if you're planning on moving for less than the amount you've been paid.
> 
> There is enough trauma involved with an international move that even just not having to track all the costs you incur might well be worth letting the employer handle the whole thing/mess for you. Obviously, up to you.


I don't think i need to show/keep record of the bills for the shipment i manage myself.

There is a slight confusion in my head regarding the following point, so I would like you to confirm on it as well:

The company is paying me: USD$ xxx thousand (Option 2— Cash in lieu of Household Goods)

This amount is subjected to tax, but whatever tax amount is incurred on me because of it the company will compensate (Tax gross up). Or in other words, I will have this total amount at my disposal and I spend it wherever I want.
I will have to take care of all the shipment costs myself plus import duties for relocating stuff from Germany to St. Louis except the D-Container.
I don’t need to keep/show record of any receipts related to the shipment costs that I undertake plus I also do not need to keep/show records of items I discard/sell here in Germany.
The D-Container related receipts I need to keep record of.

This is my understanding, but i will get it reconfirmed from the company.


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## twostep (Apr 3, 2008)

Keep detailed records of everything content and shipping related; pictures, videos, receipts. Insure everything well! You may need proof of import DE-US when you export US-DE.
Your employer is not responsible for your personal business transactions.
Have you negotiated your return in your contract? Have you negotiated your relo package and potential end of employment?


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## Geil (10 mo ago)

twostep said:


> Keep detailed records of everything content and shipping related; pictures, videos, receipts. Insure everything well! You may need proof of import DE-US when you export US-DE.


Ofcourse, I will keep record of every stuff that I ship from Germany to US from my insurance stand point.

However, my understanding is that from a tax point of view, the stuff I ship (the costs) has no significance as i cannot claim any tax gross up on it at the year end tax return.

As i will get paid USD$ xxx thousand (Option 2— Cash in lieu of Household Goods) and on this amount, US will charge tax but then it should be grossed up by my company. This cash shall be at my disposal 100% as I am bearing the cost for shipping plus selling/discarding things here in Germany. 

On the other hand, if i go with option 1, I get to export everything from Germany to US - whatever the total cost is I pay to the shipping company first , my company reimburses it, US charges me tax at year end, which is then grossed up by my company. In this case as well whatever the shipment costs are (40 foot container, plus other services) is all covered by my company plus taxes.


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## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

OK, on further examination I see that the long-time moving expense deduction is now a thing of the past. (Sorry, I am no longer a US taxpayer, so haven't been keeping up on recent developments.) 

This is a commercial site, but it does have a pretty reasonable explanation of both the moving expenses issue and the gross-up aspect and might be of use to you: Are Relocation Expenses for Employees Taxable When Paid by an Employer?

The tax gross up is a really complicated maneuver, since you are then taxed on the gross up amount, so that also has to be figured into the equation. And as far as I know (or at least how it worked when I was on such an arrangement), you are reimbursed only for the "excess" of taxes incurred over what you would have paid in your home country without the move. So figure your own benefits accordingly.


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## Geil (10 mo ago)

Bevdeforges said:


> OK, on further examination I see that the long-time moving expense deduction is now a thing of the past. (Sorry, I am no longer a US taxpayer, so haven't been keeping up on recent developments.)
> 
> This is a commercial site, but it does have a pretty reasonable explanation of both the moving expenses issue and the gross-up aspect and might be of use to you: Are Relocation Expenses for Employees Taxable When Paid by an Employer?
> 
> The tax gross up is a really complicated maneuver, since you are then taxed on the gross up amount, so that also has to be figured into the equation. And as far as I know (or at least how it worked when I was on such an arrangement), you are reimbursed only for the "excess" of taxes incurred over what you would have paid in your home country without the move. So figure your own benefits accordingly.


The company's relocation policy says..

_"...The gross-up applied to the applicable reimbursements will also be considered income, subject to taxes; therefore, the Company will gross-up this amount as well.
...
- Tax gross-up payments (which are then grossed-up in the year they are paid)..."_

I mean if in the end, i lose some money to taxes that is fine. I am already getting support from the company in this relocation, which has been triggered because of mutual benefits, so i think it'll be alright.


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## Geil (10 mo ago)

twostep said:


> Your appliances will not work in the US to start with. Generally kitchens are furnished including appliances. Why are you shipping TVs?


The TVs are relatively new (QLED 4K Q90T (2020)). I am not at home right now but my understanding is that latest TV sets come with dual electricity mode (110v-vs-220v). Will check once back home.


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## twostep (Apr 3, 2008)

Geil said:


> The TVs are relatively new (QLED 4K Q90T (2020)). I am not at home right now but my understanding is that latest TV sets come with dual electricity mode (110v-vs-220v). Will check once back home.


Would not be worth it to me. TVs are cheap. Use your air freight for things you cannot purchase in the US or at import prices only.


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## twostep (Apr 3, 2008)

Geil said:


> The company's relocation policy says..
> 
> _"...The gross-up applied to the applicable reimbursements will also be considered income, subject to taxes; therefore, the Company will gross-up this amount as well.
> ...
> ...


You seems so overly focused on taxes. Yes, you will be taxed and the rumor of US taxes being low still fascinates me:>) Company policy is nothing but policy and always generic. You have in hand what is on your contract. Until you really know HOW the gross up will actually be paid you are in limbo. Are the two moving options the only thing your employer is offering? Have you kept track of current inflation numbers?
Our last move with relo and tax gross up was five years ago. You are looking at 5-10k?


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## Geil (10 mo ago)

Hi All,

I got my L1-B visa issued 2 days ago. Date issued is stated as: 01Sep2022 - expire 29 Aug2022. I have got my Form I-129S stamped as well.

Question is can I right away travel to the US? We need to do a house finding trip and back in 1 week. The final move would be later in 1 month. 

I need to book a flight today. The agent I was working with is on holiday back on Monday.

My question is do we need any other permission to fly to the US? For example, ESTA? I believe we have already got visas, so we don’t need anything else? We have got German and British passportswith L1-B visa (mine) and family (L2-B).

Go we need I-94 for the travel?


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## twostep (Apr 3, 2008)

Geil said:


> Hi All,
> 
> I got my L1-B visa issued 2 days ago. Date issued is stated as: 01Sep2022 - expire 29 Aug2022. I have got my Form I-129S stamped as well.
> 
> ...


Why would you need a housefinding trip? The process for rent or buy is a bit different from UK/DE. Your employer should provide initial housing as in corporate apartment or extended stay to start with.


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## Geil (10 mo ago)

Hi All,

Family and I have finally arrived (on L1B visa) in the US since last 1 week. Very excited, but at the same time busy with tons of things!

I have got one question to clarify and that is related to the drivers license.

I have got a German drivers license. My understanding is that in order to drive here in Missouri, I need to get a local Missouri state drivers license, and my German drivers license would not work here. 
I went to a local drivers license office here, and they said that I need to take a theory plus practical test in order to secure a license. I also asked the officer how long can I use my German license before I get a local one, he wasn't too sure, and his answer was, it will be fine if I use my German license for 2-3 months.

My main question is if I need to buy a car next week, can I get it insured on my German license? I know getting a Missouri license is important and I would definitely get it, but I just want to get things prioritized a bit. Right now, I am using a rental car, I have it for another 1 week. However, I don't want to keep paying for rentals rather want to buy my own car. Now if I buy a car and while insuring it, the insurance company says that I must provide them with a US license only, then it will be a problem.

So the question is can I buy and then insure a car on my German license and then later in about 2 months get a local license or in order to buy and then insure a car, I must first get a Missouri license? 

Again, don't take me wrong, I am not trying to avoid getting a local license, it's just that I need to prioritize my time on things according to their importance!

Lastly, what is the best way to get a car insurance? Is there any central portal where I can compare. I can google sure, but just wanted to check if there is a popular service/platform that offers such services.

many thanks.


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## Crawford (Jan 23, 2011)

Yes you can buy a car and insure it with a foreign drivers licence. I did this while waiting to take my Californian driving test and obtaining my Californian licence.

Progressive have a statement on this:









Car Insurance for Foreign License Holders


Car insurance for foreigners in the USA is an option, whether you're visiting on a short-term vacation or moving to the U.S.



www.progressive.com




.

Be prepared to pay lots for insurance ..... most companies treat you as a brand new driver with no driving history.

There's no one major portal for comparing insurance, although Progressive is one which does that on its own site.


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## Geil (10 mo ago)

Crawford said:


> Be prepared to pay lots for insurance ..... most companies treat you as a brand new driver with no driving history.


Thanks for replying. Shouldn't I be treated as a brand new driver even if I take a US license? I wouldn't have any history on my US license either. Or would there be any difference w.r.t. between foreign license and new US license..
Thanks.


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## Crawford (Jan 23, 2011)

Geil said:


> Thanks for replying. Shouldn't I be treated as a brand new driver even if I take a US license? I wouldn't have any history on my US license either. Or would there be any difference w.r.t. between foreign license and new US license..
> Thanks.



What I mean is newcomers to the US are, usually, treated like 17 year old new drivers, _even if they have driven for decades in their home country and have a clean driving history._ 
Some folks have argued against this and _some_ US companies will accept a No Claims record from the old insurance company.


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## twostep (Apr 3, 2008)

Some of the larger insurance carrieres offer discounts when a written statement from the German carrier and Flensburg is being presented. Yes, your insurance will be sky high without a US license. Please read the fine print and ask questions if the legalise does not make sense. I do not buy the DMW response of 2-3 months. Get your required documentation and your license. They may pull your German license.


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## Geil (10 mo ago)

I have checked at: An Insurance Company You Can Rely On
using both Foreign license and Personal (US License).

With foreign license including spouse (license held 3+ years option selected) it gave me the quote "pay in full $762.00 for 6 months". 

With US license including spouse (license held less than 1 year option selected) it gave me the quote "pay in full $1100.00 for 6 months".

So the price goes up when you have a fresh US license compared to having a foreign license older than 3+ years.
It did not ask me for any proof regarding my foreign license or verification from my German auto insurance company.


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## Crawford (Jan 23, 2011)

You might not be able to take out a 6 month insurance policy and drive on a foreign licence because you are a resident of Missouri. i.e most states mandate you change your licence within a given period once you are a resident.

_You will have to pass a vision test and road sign test though. How long do you have to get a Missouri driver's license or ID card? Missouri requires that you get your DMV change of address handled *within 30 days of establishing residency in that state*.Jun 15, 2020_

*How To Do a Missouri DMV Change of Address - Moving.com*


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## twostep (Apr 3, 2008)

This is an on-line quote not a ploicy.


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## Geil (10 mo ago)

i am preparing for my Missouri DMV written test here: Free Missouri DOR Permit Practice Test 2022 - Real MO DOR Questions

My understanding is that there are 4 things that I need to take care of for getting a license in Missouri.

1). Written test (25 MCQs, example test above)
2). vision test 
3). sign test
4). driving test.


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## Crawford (Jan 23, 2011)

Geil said:


> i am preparing for my Missouri DMV written test here: Free Missouri DOR Permit Practice Test 2022 - Real MO DOR Questions
> 
> My understanding is that there are 4 things that I need to take care of for getting a license in Missouri.
> 
> ...


Sounds about right.....similar to the one in CA


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