# Dallas,Uptown Condo Vs House in park Cities ?



## JadeAby (Mar 8, 2015)

Hi,
We are mid- 4Oth couple with 4 children( 4y ,9y,19y and 21y ) and we'll be moving to Dallas this summer.We are originally from Paris and currently living in London.We enjoy City life and would like to get advices about Dallas neighborhood . 
Mum works from Home mostly.
Our criteria here is lifestyle and safety.
Our options would be :
-A Big house in Park Cities, rooms for everyone ,garden for the young ones and probably easy school run( large choice of good schools ).My older ones will be going to Uni.
or
-2 Apartments Condo, Uptown,easy settle in ( have seen online beautiful Condo ),City life( close to shops,restaurants .......) but no garden and long commute for schools ( good ones seems to be further North ).
We also wonder if families with kids live around ?Most apartments have limited bedrooms .
We haven't decided yet,and we'll be grateful to have your opinions.
As Parisians we are used to small space and busy life and our concerns is to get bored in the suburbs even in the most fab"House.
thanks for your help.


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## lovestravel (Apr 9, 2012)

Depends on if the younger children will go to public free schools or private pay schools. Personally I would shy away from Dallas independent school district. There are a few great international schools in the area if you are interested in that. Highland park public free schools are excellent. We lived in the city with older children that went to private schools and other than commute it was great. We lived outside the city when our kids were younger. No one in the area was their age though. We had a few friends with very young kids but again not that many. There were no children's playgrounds anywhere near. Highland park will have more opportunities for the kids to socialise or participate in sports or groups. Unfortunately there is nothing in Dallas area that is even close to Paris or London lifestyle which is why we chose to move to denver instead of returning to Dallas.


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## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

It's also probably less common in the US for university-aged children to live with Mom and Dad. A big part of "college life" ("college" in the US = "university" most other places) is living on your own in the university dorms or nearby. In any event, it's an option your older children may want to at least consider.
Cheers,
Bev


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## JadeAby (Mar 8, 2015)

Good morning,

Thank you both for your answers.
Our " young team " would probably go to a private school,we are expats and have been moving around 10 years now and Us is our 5th country.We found school transition easier in International Academy,where diversity( We are African and French couple so kids R mixe race ) and mobility is a usual thing. We are looking to Dallas International school ( but my kids never had french as an academic language ) or Alcium school ?..... so Lovestravel please your advices are more than welcome.
If we are in The Park Cities,where public schools,have very good reputation,I dont' mind sending them if schools are not too Conservative .
For My" older team." ,we would of course think about accommodation in Campus after a while,we just wanted to keep an eye on them in a new environment .
That could sound silly ,but we never lived in Us,all we know is from Tv and It's some time scary.
We know from experience that it's common for expats to make mistakes ( house's location,school etc.....)
because New country = New Rules.
So far ,living in the City is very appealing to us ,but the school thing worried me.
Thank you again for your time and advices
Xxx B


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## twostep (Apr 3, 2008)

Have you been to DFW?


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## JadeAby (Mar 8, 2015)

Yeah well,just 2 days tour,but honestly you don't know much more.
City is not big but looks like any City,and Suburbs are quiet with large houses ( was impressed by the size of cars!!! so impressive..... )


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## mamasue (Oct 7, 2008)

I'm assuming (maybe wrongly?) that you'll be on a working visa.?
My priority would be a place without a giant commute, and a good school district.
As your kids will go to private school, the actual school might not be a problem, but property prices can be affected by school districts.

As you've never lived in the US....it might be an idea to come for an extended vacation first.....it's often not like you see on TV.


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## JadeAby (Mar 8, 2015)

We move with my husband Job and my Visa ( link to his ) allows me to work,but that won't be my priority.First months expatriation is so though ,it takes a while before getting a routine and feel home As a Mum we always settle first the family before thinking of ourself ( may be it's a mistake ).
I know that Tv should not be the only reference ,because it only points out some aspects and that why I am in this forum.Real people experience would help.


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## twostep (Apr 3, 2008)

JadeAby said:


> Yeah well,just 2 days tour,but honestly you don't know much more.
> City is not big but looks like any City,and Suburbs are quiet with large houses ( was impressed by the size of cars!!! so impressive..... )


You have only seen a fraction of DFW

Public transportation is available but very limited. Your students will need vehicles. Big cars? By the time you load your children and whoever you are carpooling and their sports equipment you will need a mini van or large SUV - also known as soccer mom mobile. Please consider toll connectors. 
DFW is booming and construction is everywhere which means traffic and commutes are horrible. I have not seen a change in the last five years. It has gotten worse. 
Have your students been admitted? Have you been able to confirm availability of dorm space? Are their visas in process?
My problems here:
Distance - everything is miles away.
Cost of living - utilities have gone through the roof so have groceries
Domestic help - basic housecleaning for 3 bedroom/office runs me 250, babysitting for an evening starts at 50
My positive points:
Art, culture, shopping, food - it is all available


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## lovestravel (Apr 9, 2012)

I think you will find downtown Dallas boring compared to london or Paris. There are a few museums and restaurants but no grocery stores yet. The Dallas farmers market is wonderful. Will you all have cars? As someone has mentioned, you will have to drive no matter where you live. Dallas international school is great but you need to check to see if they have any openings and after a certain age they will have to pass a french exam to gain entrance. Public schools will be far more liberal than a private school but Dallas is in the Bible Belt and all that goes with it. Dallas county is more liberal but highland park is another beast altogether. Highland park is beautiful with lots of trees and very expensive. It is the most exclusive area but definitely more geared for families than downtown. You will have to make an effort to find entertainment because it will be scattered and you will have to drive. Once our kids started driving I could do without a second car but my husband worked from home or travelled so we would share. I would have to drive to grocery and almost all other shopping. Public transport is not the best. I personally don't like the suburbs but our kids are grown. Traffic can be a nightmare if you are carpooling each day. It is normal for most kids to have after school activities such as music lessons or sports which you will also have to transport them to. Don't worry about diversity in any of the areas you mention. None of our friends were from Texas and a lot of them were foreign. Strangely enough we had tons of friends from Bulgaria.


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## JadeAby (Mar 8, 2015)

Thanks T ,
Well the car culture gonna be a new concept for us,as I work my kids to school ,buses down my street get me everywhere but at least I have a driven licence and That is not the case for my Second one ( 19years). He will need to learn in DFW.
He applied to 3 different Colleges ,we haven't heard from them yet.

My daughter ( 21 Y) is finishing her Master and she is not willing to go back to College.Because she is already 21,she can't join the family Visa ( Dad L-1,Mum and Kids L-2) .So 2 options left for her B-1 visa ,no work permission or J-1 visa if she find an internship .For both options no income and she really wanna be financially independent .She probably would work in London but we don't want to be separated .
I can't believe the price for domestic heLp ! How come? well someone gonna get lucky because there is lot to do in our place.What about Nanny ?


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## twostep (Apr 3, 2008)

Domestic help: You need someone who is legal and reliable. That means you are filing taxes as employer. There are services which are bonded and insured. Cash under the table? Sorry not my cup of tea.
Nanny: All my neighbors are extremely cautious. They want to know who is with their kids. 
You will needs insurance for two adults, one teenager and one undisclosed driver plus at least two vehicles.


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## BBCWatcher (Dec 28, 2012)

twostep said:


> That means you are filing taxes as employer. There are services which are bonded and insured.


....And that handle payroll, too. If you're hiring domestic help directly, yes, you've got to handle the tax aspect (Social Security and Medicare payroll taxes, mainly). If you're buying service from a full service agency -- ServiceMaster, to pick a well known example -- it's purely transactional, and they handle those details.

Both (legal) options work, but just be aware of which one you're choosing. A _placement_ agency or recruiter is not the same thing as a full service company.


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## lovestravel (Apr 9, 2012)

Everyone I knew that had full time help provided them a place to stay in the home and all food and use of family car in exchange for lower pay. I believe it is legal as long as you file taxes but double check with tax attorney to make sure. Just don't get anyone young. My neighbour lost her husband to a young live in nanny. One of the schools my kids went to at back to school night they had people sit together based on postal code so we could easily coordinate carpooling with other parents if we so desired. 

Which universities is your child applying? Smu is right in the middle of highland park and fairly easy to get into. They require freshman students to live on campus. Your 19 year old wouldn't need a car if on campus there. Our daughter did summer study programs there while in high school and it was decent and she was accepted there but went elsewhere due to the fact they didn't offer her course of studies in neuroscience. Law program is the most popular and good reputation in addition to business studies.


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## BBCWatcher (Dec 28, 2012)

lovestravel said:


> Everyone I knew that had full time help provided them a place to stay in the home and all food and use of family car in exchange for lower pay. I believe it is legal as long as you file taxes....


Not legal. You must pay at least minimum wage, period. Overtime must also be paid at overtime rates.

Underpaid domestic help can and often does file a complaint for back pay. Interest and penalties then apply.

Some states and localities have higher minimum wage rates than the U.S. federal minimum, please note.


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## lovestravel (Apr 9, 2012)

It does make me wonder though if domestic rates are higher than minimum wage and offering the minimum wage with housing and food would be legal. I also wonder if the housing and food would be considered taxable income. Of course a tax attorney would know. Housecleaning services last I remember was about $30 an hour. I have no idea what going nanny rates are these days. Our kids are adults so long time away from those services.


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## BBCWatcher (Dec 28, 2012)

You can offer practically anything you want in addition to minimum wage, but you must offer at least minimum wage as a standalone matter.

If the terms of employment are full-time live-in (for service and coverage reasons), room and board -- as long as they aren't lavish in the circumstances -- are not taxable income. (If you're living at least as well as your domestic help, you generally have no problem.) It's analogous to providing housing in the middle of a forest to loggers, or a rest bunk/hotel to a flight crew. Those are their offices, in effect, not taxable income.


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## lovestravel (Apr 9, 2012)

That would make sense why so many we knew had live in help. Much less expensive than paying the regular going rate. Most times it seemed the nannies did not work middle of the day. They would work until about lunch then take a few hours off to go to school or whatever and then cook dinner and put kids to bed. Why a stay at home mom needs a nanny escapes me but lots of people do it. For working parents I suppose the nannies just worked until one parent was home.


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## BBCWatcher (Dec 28, 2012)

For perspective, the _vast majority_ of households in the United States do not have live-in, unrelated domestic help, either legal or illegal. It's not actually a "normal" thing. Most Americans consider the concept a flat out luxury, primarily or exclusively reserved for the wealthy households that can afford it.

At U.S. federal minimum wage the cash cost of live-in domestic help, even at "only" 1500 hours per year, is well over $10,000 per year. To which you have to add the employer share of Social Security/Medicare taxes. Plus room and board costs. The U.S. median household income is approximately $50,000, for additional perspective. Once per week visiting housekeeping service for a few hours per visit would cost only a fraction of what it costs for live-in help.


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## JadeAby (Mar 8, 2015)

Ah ah ah ,L you make me laugh with you "No Young Nanny polity" ...lol
That's all for your time,haven't read all of it yet.......have to run to school and Pilates after......( such a cliche !!!) but once back I'll have a bitt of time 
thanks again......love this Forum!!!!! you r all so helpful!!!!


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## twostep (Apr 3, 2008)

lovestravel said:


> That would make sense why so many we knew had live in help. Much less expensive than paying the regular going rate. Most times it seemed the nannies did not work middle of the day. They would work until about lunch then take a few hours off to go to school or whatever and then cook dinner and put kids to bed. Why a stay at home mom needs a nanny escapes me but lots of people do it. For working parents I suppose the nannies just worked until one parent was home.


When did you live in DFW?
Too much "seemed", "suppose" ...
Live in help requires appropriate accommodations. Cooking, chaufering, cleaning, bed time stories for minimum wage - give me her number! Au pair runs approximately 8-10k. 
As BBCWatcher already mentioned - tax reporting, insurance for the vehicle she drives, liability insurance, housing. 
OP can google local cleaning companies. They respond very quickly to email contact. Their rates are pretty much the same.


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## JadeAby (Mar 8, 2015)

Here am I
Reading This help me to adjust some decision.
For the car,I 'll look for a big 4*4,because I'll definitely try to carpool with someone,if possible.
For the domestic help,no live in needed,I won't have extra room anyway......thanks B,a full Service Agency would be a great help.( how much is the min wage in US ??, here in Uk it's 6£.. but cleaners cost 10/15£ hr taxes excludes )

My son applied to SMU and we hope that would work well. Great reputation and location is perfect for us.
Does anyone heard about Greenhill school or Alcium school ?

We are also having a second though about the condo downtown ,as we just found out that properties have very high and expensive charges ( up to 3000$/month ).
The perfect scenario would be to rent out something first and see how we settle in ,but unfortunately there is no rental market for this kind of property.

Honestly living in a suburb terrify me,but it seems more affordable than Condo .
In 2 weeks time my husband would be in DFW for work and he will probably meet up with an realtor .

Other question;how long does it take to learn and pass a driven test in US ? ( in France 2 months is a minimum and you need 25/30 hrs lessons,thats compulsory .....Back then I tried 3 times ).


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## mamasue (Oct 7, 2008)

The driving test in the US is easy, compared to the UK (I'm assuming France is a similar test to the UK)
You'll have the written test, copies of which can be found online. Then the driven test, which again, is easier than the UK.
I did my test in GA, and the examiner actually said "If you can pass a UK test, the US one is easy." I didn't want to tell her it was over 40 years since I passed the UK test.


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## twostep (Apr 3, 2008)

Drivers license
Pull up the site for Texas DMV Department of Motor Vehicle. Texas has reciprocity with several states whose license holders can surrender their license and go through abbreviated testing or no testing at all. Otherwise all drivers in your family have a given time period to get Texas licenses. To the best of my knowledge it is 30 days.

I presume you mean rent when you say charges. 3k for a 3 bedroom is not bad. When you are looking at houses do not forget to factor in utilities (Texas summers are hot and humid and winters have been frigid for the last year), yard upkeep, renters and liability insurance, everything the lease does not cover.


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## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

JadeAby said:


> Other question;how long does it take to learn and pass a driven test in US ? ( in France 2 months is a minimum and you need 25/30 hrs lessons,thats compulsory .....Back then I tried 3 times ).


Oh, ANY state in the US is easier than France. Plus, they actually have enough driving examiners - and there is no driving school requirement!

And, Texas is one of the states with reciprocity with France. So, if you have a French license, you can simply exchange it for a Texas license. I would recommend a look at the list of the test questions, however. Every state has a few "peculiarities" in their rules of the road that it's very useful to know. Oh, and no "priorité à droite" though it's no guarantee that people won't swing out onto the road in front of you when you're least expecting it. But the comment I used to hear most often from Europeans visiting in the States was that the drivers "are so polite."
Cheers,
Bev


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## Bellthorpe (Jun 23, 2013)

Heh. Not in downtown DC they're not! California perhaps.


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## lovestravel (Apr 9, 2012)

I'm sorry if I use the word suppose and seem too much for your taste. I wasn't nosy neighbour and grill all my friends and neighbours on their domestic help situations. It was what I observed as an outsider. I was not interested in that lifestyle so I never enquired. This particular person was asking about domestic help and this is what I observed when our kids were growing up. 

Once our kids were in high school we moved downtown and most people did not have kids. Everyone I knew that hired someone or a company to clean (and most did) once a week. Our service was $200 a week. The people I knew that had a baby hired someone to come into their home to babysit while they worked from home. I did not know anyone with school aged kids in our area. They usually moved to a house in more of the suburbs once baby came along.

Most times if you rent a condo or townhouse the rent would be quoted with any hoa fees included but you would pay electricity, possibly water, gas, Internet and tv separate. If you buy then there would be hoa fees in addition to property taxes and home insurance plus utilities. Some housing developments also have hoa dues to cover parks or community clubhouse or swimming pools.


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## twostep (Apr 3, 2008)

Bellthorpe said:


> Heh. Not in downtown DC they're not! California perhaps.


Make them be polite! Nothing like a full sized Chevy with mud tires


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## JadeAby (Mar 8, 2015)

Thanks to all of you for your time and precious advices.it has been absolutely helpful !
All the best!


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