# American couple kidnapped near CDMX



## chicois8 (Aug 8, 2009)

Recently the 3 students murdered and dissolved in acid, then the 2 European bicyclist murdered and thrown down a ravine and now this, lucky this incident turned out to have a happier ending...

https://nypost.com/2018/05/16/we-were-kidnapped-while-on-vacation-in-mexico/


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

chicois8 said:


> Recently the 3 students murdered and dissolved in acid, then the 2 European bicyclist murdered and thrown down a ravine and now this, lucky this incident turned out to have a happier ending...
> 
> https://nypost.com/2018/05/16/we-were-kidnapped-while-on-vacation-in-mexico/


A terrible ordeal for this young couple, which ended well, gracias a Dios. But why did you post this story, chico?


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

Well what is the connection between the 3? 
The students were Mexicans and the cartel went after them either by mistake or because of an aunt.
The Europeans went travelling in a very unsafe area during unrest and were assaulted by highway robbers in an area know for exactly that.
the other couple was victimized by a gang while travelling.

What is the point? There is a lot more crime than this..if you want to report crime.


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## perropedorro (Mar 19, 2016)

> The couple rented a car from an American company in Mexico City


 Was the rental easily identifiable as such? Last winter I had need of a rental for a week (my vehicle was in for major repair) and was dismayed that it had license plate frames along with two large color-clashing bumperstickers screaming the name of the rental outfit. Might as well put a big red target and a sign saying _¡TURISTA!_ to make sure delincuentes can spot you. I wish they'd stop doing that.


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## chicois8 (Aug 8, 2009)

Isla Verde said:


> A terrible ordeal for this young couple, which ended well, gracias a Dios. But why did you post this story, chico?



After seeing Meritorious-MasoMenos post this morning about the students and acid, reading about the cyclist being murdered and now this kidnapping it seems it is not just cartel against cartel violence lately but more and more crimes to students and tourists..


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## chicois8 (Aug 8, 2009)

citlali said:


> Well what is the connection between the 3?




Violence --- Murder---- Mayhem ---Against non cartel citizens...You wrote about the bicyclist and the problems in your neck of the woods.......16/31


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

I do not know how I feel about it.. the crime against the bikers happened in an area totally out of control that is not patrolled by the police and where assaults happen on a regular basis, unfortunately the 2 men probably tried to fight back, or a least the first one.. You would think that if the government really wanted to get the guys they could.. After the bus full of French tourists was robbed and all the tourists were left naked by Agua Azul the police rode the buses and killed 2 guys , the third one escaped but it calmed down for a while. La Ventana is known for its problems as well and the next town too.. The Ventana has 60 or 70 people, it is insane to think that a small group of men from that area are left to do whatever they feel like. The army is on that road, they could do something...I heard from someone that they were escorting the buses now.. we will see for how long.. they did the same thing on the road to Villahermosa from Bochil as many buses were assaulted in Selva Negra.. The government knows the hot spots they know the villages and they sit there doing nothing until someone gets killed.. it is outrageous..This is not new

The student is typical cartel action that may have been after one person and killed everyone around, they have been doing that for a long time whether people are involved or not. 4 years ago they killed 18 innocent people here in the area. The cartel killings are not new either. After all authority and cartels got away with killing 43 students before that.

The kidnapping is something that has been happening a lot more recently.. like around the San Martin Texmelucan where gangs took over the police and were stopping people and robbing them and even killed an innocent baby because the father did not want to give his truck and also raped in front of him his wife and daughter some 2 km before the toll booth.. This to me is new ,, I mean the gangs taking over the roads and it is concerning because I know quite a few people who have been shot at while on a bus ..
The taking over of towns and highways by gangs seem something more recent and getting worse although it has been happening in Guerrero for a while.. It seems that all the cucarachas are waking up and there seem to be a lot of them and they get the help of local authorities, that is really scary to me.

The situation right now reminds me of a basket of crabs where the authorities are the same as the criminals..they are all alike.

The impunity seem to also get worse if that is possible.. No one seem to really ever been caught or if they do they do not get convicted for a long time.


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## chicois8 (Aug 8, 2009)

citlali said:


> What is the point? There is a lot more crime than this..if you want to report crime.



That's funny, you criticize me for mentioning 3 violent attacks on innocent folks and you reply mentioning at least 8 violent acts...seems like you enjoy reporting crimes by looking at you post about Chiapas wit 16 out of 32 post authored you you and most quite long...
Glad there is no crime in Chapala, Ajijic or Jocotepec......


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## HolyMole (Jan 3, 2009)

chicois8 said:


> That's funny, you criticize me for mentioning 3 violent attacks on innocent folks and you reply mentioning at least 8 violent acts...seems like you enjoy reporting crimes by looking at you post about Chiapas wit 16 out of 32 post authored you you and most quite long...
> Glad there is no crime in Chapala, Ajijic or Jocotepec......


My first thought was: This incident occured a year ago. Why is it news now? 
There's usually some reason for publicizing Mexico's crime problems, beyond simple human interest. These days, where money and its corrupting influence is behind absolutely everything, always ask yourself "Cui bono?"

This is not to doubt the veracity of the story, nor to downplay the extent of crime in Mexico. Anyone with more than a passing interest in all things Mexican is well-aware of the problem. Having spent the better part of three months driving around Mexico from Nogales to San Cristobal de las Casas, and all points between, including a number of indigenous villages in Chiapas, we shudder to think of what perils we DIDN'T suffer, but could have. But that was in 2006. The situation since then, by all accounts, appears to have deteriorated, to the point where I doubt we would attempt that same trip today, due to safety concerns.

In any event, personal circumstances and health insurance issues now limit our Mexican travel to 40 day chunks, which rules out our spending the entire 5 - 6 month winter season. Perhaps, given the increase in crime and the ever-present and obvious dangers driving in Mexico, (general road safety, totally exposed and defenseless to anyone with criminal intent), we should consider ourselves lucky that circumstances require that we fly in and fly out in relative safety. 

.


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

Chicois I was not criticizing you , I just did not see the connection between the 3 so you clarified it.

I stay on top of where the bad stuff is happening, I travel a lot in remote areas and on the highway and it is a good idea to know where the gangs and problems are.... I now know more than I want to know and will fly.

Yes there are things happening in the Chapala area..but mostly cartel and robbery..so the regular stuff and nothing one would know how to avoid. I have dogs and an alarm and good neighbors and I sleep well..


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## [email protected] (Nov 12, 2017)

. . . well, reading through this post thread tonight sure sobered me up . . . makes driving down to San Cristobal de Las Casas, with dos gatos, much more serious . . .


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

do not get scared just be ready, do not have a lot of cash in your wallet , just what you need for the day, hide the rest. have a cell phone charged although some areas do not have signal..let someone know where you are every day and you will be ok.. You can get a sticker for the toll so will needless cash.
I am going back down end of june with the car but I am going through Oaxaca this time, I will be staying a few days in Oaxaca and then going to San Cristobal via the coast .. after that I am leaving the car in San Cristobal and will fly, 2hours beat 18 to 20 hours on the road..That drive is way longer and more difficult because of the road to the coast but it is a pretty alternative.


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## xolo (May 25, 2014)

chicois8 said:


> That's funny, you criticize me for mentioning 3 violent attacks on innocent folks and you reply mentioning at least 8 violent acts...seems like you enjoy reporting crimes by looking at you post about Chiapas wit 16 out of 32 post authored you you and most quite long...
> Glad there is no crime in Chapala, Ajijic or Jocotepec......


I too wondered what the connection and timeline was between the events. It would have been much better if you had explained the connection between the three events in your original post. Also, I expect you can find lots of examples of violent crimes that fit any demographic you care to investigate if you are only looking for a few examples. The only meaningful measure would be statistical.

Not to minimize what happened in those cases you cited.


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

Here is a link to a site that will give you the name and cost of every toll between Ocotlan.. near Guadalajara Chapala..and San Cristobal de las casas. There are 26 tolls for a total of 2 056 pesos for 13 66 km I do it on less than 3 tanks of gas. I refuel every time the tank shows half full because there are sections that do not have many gas stations .
Rutas Punto a Punto


If you stay in Puebla your last toll is San Martin Texmelucan 
then the next one is Amozoc although there maybe a little toll for getting on te elevated freeway.. not sure..

That gives you an idea on how much money you need for tolls every day if you do not have a sticker.

You can do the same exercise from the border to Guadalajara o Ocotlan and you ll have an idea of how much money you need.

I do not drive very fast and stop every couple of hours to walk a little bit.. I did San Cristobal Orizaba in 9h30mn and Orizaba Ajijic in 11 h.


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## HolyMole (Jan 3, 2009)

citlali said:


> do not get scared just be ready, do not have a lot of cash in your wallet , just what you need for the day, hide the rest. have a cell phone charged ...........


The problem with touring around Mexico in ones own vehicle.......and this is what we found most worrying.....is that you are totally exposed - and the bad guys know it. We've gone through the whole exercise of finding clever little hiding spots in the car for all the extra cash, and for all the credit cards. But everything you own as a tourist is somewhere in that vehicle, and any thief worth his salt realizes that fact. Your laptop or tablet, your camera, your cellphone, your cash, your credit cards.....it's all there for the taking. We've been fortunate. We know of folks who were not.
These fears of the theft of "things", of course, can't hold a candle to fears for physical safety.


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

yes of course you are right but when I travel with my pets, I figure that if I come out alive with the pets I am ok. 
You can replace everything else. back up your computer , do not have sensitive info on it.. back up the contacts in your cell phone make copies of your papers and scan them and send a copy on the e-mail ..and inch Allah, as long as you are alive you can figure out the rest..

When I got back t Ajijic I overheard a couple who had been robbed of their cars and everything else in Sinaloa.. The thieves were talking about killing them but one of them decided it was not a good idea and gave them a little money and one credit card back...they made it ok and they decided they would not drive down anymore..They were luck one guy did not want them dead..


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## Stevenjb (Dec 10, 2017)

citlali said:


> The thieves were talking about killing them but one of them decided it was not a good idea and gave them a little money and one credit card back...they made it ok and they decided they would not drive down anymore..They were luck one guy did not want them dead..


Thieves with a conscience, there is good in the world.


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

Stevenjb said:


> Thieves with a conscience, there is good in the world.


But not as much as there should be.


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## ojosazules11 (Nov 3, 2013)

I’m not in denial about the reality of violence in Mexico, and I certainly feel for the couple in the article, but there are a few things to point out. 

One, I find it odd that the date byline is May 16, 2018 for an event which occurred a year prior in May 2017. 

Two, statistically the point they make that “In 2016, there were 771 kidnapping cases in the country involving people connected to the US” actually does not seem nearly so threatening in the context of approximately 11 million visitors to Mexico from the United States in the 12 months prior to April 2017 (those are visitors who spent at least one night in Mexico- it rises to over 25 million if day visitors to Mexico included). So 771 kidnappings (while awful for those who were kidnapped) represents 0.007% of the total. Actually those 771 are not necessarily all tourists, as there could be other groups with “connections to the US”. 

I know that statistically there is more crime, more homicides, more kidnappings per capita in Mexico than in the US. There are less school shootings in Mexico, though. (Sadly, yet another school shooting today in Texas.) However, the statistical likelihood of something serious happening to any one of us, even if we drive cross country, remains very low. It doesn’t mean it won’t happen, but the risk is not all that high. As Citlali has described, that risk goes way up with certain activities in specific areas.


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

What is strange to me is that when something happens to foreigners it usually makes the news and we sure have not seen that kind of news..


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

It also goes way up if you are carrying valuable merchandise.. Ask any trucker.
. I do not doubt something happened to the couple but I doubt very much that it is the whole story. The guys decide to rob them and ask for a ransom, have weapons and batch up everything after that and let them escape?? Sorry it does not make a whole lot of sense.. something is missing there.


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## chicois8 (Aug 8, 2009)

ojosazules11 said:


> I’m not in denial about the reality of violence in Mexico, and I certainly feel for the couple in the article, but there are a few things to point out.
> 
> One, I find it odd that the date byline is May 16, 2018 for an event which occurred a year prior in May 2017.


I can only guess that they were traumatized so much it took them a year to relate their story, here is a paragraph from and Australian newspaper dated may 18th 2018 about this story.

""Following the 2017 attack, the couple filed a report with police and sought medical treatment back home, with Jennifer requiring emergency surgery. They are now speaking out to warn other tourists.""


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