# UK Driving Licence Exchange, Latest news.



## Barriej

It appears that the exchange fiasco has been finalised.

As of 28th Feb 2022 if you have a UK issued licence and haven't been able to exchange or you arrive here after that date you will need to take a test.






Canje, sustitución y renovación de permisos del Reino Unido







sede.dgt.gob.es







And here is a screen grab from the DGT...


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## xabiaxica

Barriej said:


> It appears that the exchange fiasco has been finalised.
> 
> As of 28th Feb 2022 if you have a UK issued licence and haven't been able to exchange or you arrive here after that date you will need to take a test.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Canje, sustitución y renovación de permisos del Reino Unido
> 
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sede.dgt.gob.es
> 
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> 
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> 
> And here is a screen grab from the DGT...
> 
> View attachment 100958


I suspect this is just the DGT confirming what we were told just after Xmas, having just updated the website.

There might yet be an agreement I imagine, but that said, it would certainly be great if this were the final word on the matter. At least everyone would know where they stand.


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## MataMata

I agree, it's not conclusive of anything else.



Barriej said:


> As of 28th Feb 2022 if you have a UK issued licence and haven't been able to exchange or you arrive here after that date you will need to take a test.


Those are your words not DGT's.

Nothing new here, move along!


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## Barriej

MataMata said:


> I agree, it's not conclusive of anything else.
> 
> 
> 
> *Those are your words not DGT's.*
> 
> Nothing new here, move along!


Did you check the DGT website...It was clear on there and thats where I copied it from...

Think its about time I stopped posting on here..
So I will be moving along as suggested..


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## kaipa

MataMata said:


> I agree, it's not conclusive of anything else.
> 
> 
> 
> Those are your words not DGT's.
> 
> Nothing new here, move along!


Información importante
A partir del *1 de marzo de 2022*, el régimen de los permisos de conducir expedidos por las autoridades británicas será el previsto para los permisos expedidos a terceros países extracomunitarios.
Los permisos de conducir emitidos por las autoridades británicas serán válidos para conducir en España durante el plazo de seis meses, desde la entrada de su titular o desde la fecha de obtención

These are DGT's words. Seems pretty definitive to me in Spanish.


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## timwip

MataMata said:


> I agree, it's not conclusive of anything else.
> 
> 
> 
> Those are your words not DGT's.
> 
> 
> 
> Nothing new here, move along!


You could apologize for your terse answer resulting from not taking the time to read Barriej´s post.


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## MataMata

kaipa said:


> Información importante
> A partir del *1 de marzo de 2022*, el régimen de los permisos de conducir expedidos por las autoridades británicas será el previsto para los permisos expedidos a terceros países extracomunitarios.
> Los permisos de conducir emitidos por las autoridades británicas serán válidos para conducir en España durante el plazo de seis meses, desde la entrada de su titular o desde la fecha de obtención
> 
> These are DGT's words. Seems pretty definitive to me in Spanish.


Firstly that's not what Barrie said and secondly it completely ignores the explanation which followed which reiterates the facts of the matter which are that those who registered for an exchange before the Dec 2020 deadline will still get an exchange (eventually) and those who came - or come - later will have 6 months to take a test.

No change in anything then and not a finalisation as talks on an exchange agreement are, we are assured, ongoing.


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## xabiaxica

MataMata said:


> Firstly that's not what Barrie said and secondly it completely ignores the explanation which followed which reiterates the facts of the matter which are that those who registered for an exchange before the Dec 2020 deadline will still get an exchange (eventually) and those who came - or come - later will have 6 months to take a test.
> 
> No change in anything then and not a finalisation as talks on an exchange agreement are, we are assured, ongoing.


As I understand it, the extension to the end of Feb is for those who registered before the end of Dec 2020.
Anyone who moved here after that date has 6 months in which to take a the test after the issue of their TIE. The TIE must be applied for within one month of arrival. 

For the sake of clarity, the visa itself is only for entry; it doesn't confer right to reside, although since the TIE requirements have to be met to obtain the visa, it's unlikely thata TIE wouldn't be issued. 

The point I'm trying to make is that one can't come to Spain with a visa & just stay without gettting the TIE, thus avoiding the need to take a driving test if one wishes to continue driving, as I read someone suggested on another forum.


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## xabiaxica

This seems to confirm my take on it

*



 https://www.facebook.com/BritsInSpain/posts/295399049287314


*


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## SanDan007

Hola, hello...apologies for gatecrashing your licence conflab...im a brand new resident and forum user and cannot work out how i am supposed to do my First, intro thread before i can message someone about something specific, so i'v just looked for an interesting thread and hoping for the best...tally-ho, into the breach...


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## xabiaxica

LATEST UPDATE



> _Update on driving licence negotiations_
> Some of you have been in touch to ask about the ongoing driving licence negotiations, so we wanted to provide a brief update.
> Firstly, we want to recognise the anxiety this is causing those of you who hadn’t already exchanged your UK licence for a Spanish one (or registered your intent to do so) before 30 December 2020 or who have arrived in Spain since then. As you would expect, we can’t go into detail on the negotiations, except to say that they are continuing and both sides remain committed to reaching an agreement that will enable UK Nationals who are resident in Spain to exchange their UK licence for a Spanish one without needing to take a practical test.
> We recognise your concern about the upcoming 30 April cut-off point, which is when the current grace period runs out, and we have asked Spain for an extension that will give us enough time to reach a final agreement and avoid a further cliff edge in the future. What we cannot do is guarantee when or whether an agreement will be reached. Therefore, if it is essential for you to drive, you may not want to wait for the outcome of the ongoing negotiations and you may decide to apply for a Spanish driving licence now. This involves taking both a practical and theory test. You can find out more about the process on the DGT site, where the information is also available in English: https://sede.dgt.gob.es/.../permiso-conducir/index.shtml.
> We will continue to keep you updated with the latest information on this page and at gov.uk/livinginspain, where you can sign up for alerts, so that you are notified of any changes.
> This message only applies to UK Nationals living in Spain. Visitors can continue to use their UK licence to drive in Spain without the need for an International Driving Permit.






__ https://www.facebook.com/BritsInSpain/posts/357242616436290


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## woodbine

Out of interest, is it possible to take both the practical and theory parts of the Spanish driving test without being able to speak Spanish?


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## xabiaxica

woodbine said:


> Out of interest, is it possible to take both the practical and theory parts of the Spanish driving test without being able to speak Spanish?


Not with no Spanish at all, since the practical is in Spanish, so one would at least have to have learned the basic instructions that the examiner will use.


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## kaipa

I have heard that some schools are trying to teach students the Spanish you might hear- but to be honest if you have not been in Spain long I dont think that would work too well despite the logic. Recognising instructions ( even a limited number) in a foreign language is not easy if you have had no exposure to it. Pick a language like Swedish and just try recognising days of the week or numbers 1-10. You will find it very hard to just recognize them never mind produce them and that's just 7 words. Now try recognising lots of possible sentences with numerous variations- very hard


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## xabiaxica

No agreement has been reached yet, so for anyone who has lived in Spain for more than 6 months & is using a UK issued licence, it will be illegal to drive here, as of tomorrow.









*An update from HMA Hugh Elliott on driving licence exchange* The UK and Spanish Governments are still negotiating. UK and Spanish Ministers spoke today... | By Brits in Spain | Facebook


43 тыс. views, 111 likes, 2 loves, 1 тыс. comments, 440 shares, Facebook Watch Videos from Brits in Spain: *An update from HMA Hugh Elliott on driving licence exchange* The UK and Spanish...




fb.watch


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## Man le-mans

You can still drive on UK license as a Tourist up to 6 months. But if you’re a resident with a UK license you can’t. I’m guessing because Spain don’t want to lose the hire car business from the airports which is obviously very big business from UK tourists. 
The next thing is lorry drivers traveling internationally is acceptable. 
Im guessing Spain is trying to get as much money in as possible.with driving test and lessons


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## stevesainty

Man le-mans said:


> You can still drive on UK license as a Tourist up to 6 months. But if you’re a resident with a UK license you can’t. I’m guessing because Spain don’t want to lose the hire car business from the airports which is obviously very big business from UK tourists.
> The next thing is lorry drivers traveling internationally is acceptable.
> Im guessing Spain is trying to get as much money in as possible.with driving test and lessons


I believe the main obstacle is the lack of access by DGT to DVLA in UK to verify that the UK licence is valid and able to be exchanged. Gov UK is not bothered that Spanish residents that are UK citizens cannot now drive, serve them right for moving to Spain attitude.


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## Man le-mans

I’m not sure that’s the case because the UK let the spainish residence drive in the UK and exchange their license to allow the license to be valid
Spain reply on tourist as well as a lot of people living here from different countries


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## stevesainty

Man le-mans said:


> I’m not sure that’s the case because the UK let the spainish residence drive in the UK and exchange their license to allow the license to be valid


But that is DVLA accessing DGT, not necessarily a two way street.


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## xabiaxica

Man le-mans said:


> You can still drive on UK license as a Tourist up to 6 months. But if you’re a resident with a UK license you can’t. I’m guessing because Spain don’t want to lose the hire car business from the airports which is obviously very big business from UK tourists.
> The next thing is lorry drivers traveling internationally is acceptable.
> Im guessing Spain is trying to get as much money in as possible.with driving test and lessons


Once you have been in Spain for 90+ consecutive days you are no longer a tourist. 

A 3rd country citizen would have needed to secure a visa before coming & an EU citizen is required to register as resident.

The licence rules for residents have never been the same as for tourists. A tourist can hardly be expected to change their driving licence to a Spanish one.


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## Man le-mans

I understand that there are different licences and laws. But I have been to Spain and the Canary Islands many many times and hired many cars in Spain over the years from airports. Plus deed safe to do so with never any problems along with thousands and thousands of others each year. Now since Brexit it’s changed, so for the last 45ish years it’s acceptable but now it’s not.
i totally agree with on the fact that why should anyone go to another country and expect that country to support them which I think is wrong which is a problem in the UK. I have spent thousands on applying for visas with medical insurances Arcos, certifications and so on. The Spainish consulate went on strike in the UK march 14th and stopped all Applications which I agree with but it’s very frustrating.
I have been driving for nearly 40 years also have motorcycle license and did my advanced many years ago, to now be told that if I get residency I need to take my tests again or keep coming on holidays I don’t need to.
That just doesn’t make sense to me. I think you are either safe to drive on the roads or you’re not it’s as simple as that.


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## Barriej

Man le-mans said:


> I understand that there are different licences and laws. But I have been to Spain and the Canary Islands many many times and hired many cars in Spain over the years from airports. Plus deed safe to do so with never any problems along with thousands and thousands of others each year. Now since Brexit it’s changed, so for the last 45ish years it’s acceptable but now it’s not.
> i totally agree with on the fact that why should anyone go to another country and expect that country to support them which I think is wrong which is a problem in the UK. I have spent thousands on applying for visas with medical insurances Arcos, certifications and so on. The Spainish consulate went on strike in the UK march 14th and stopped all Applications which I agree with but it’s very frustrating.
> I have been driving for nearly 40 years also have motorcycle license and did my advanced many years ago, to now be told that if I get residency I need to take my tests again or keep coming on holidays I don’t need to.
> That just doesn’t make sense to me. I think you are either safe to drive on the roads or you’re not it’s as simple as that.


Before B'day Spain and the other Eu countries (including the UK) could not stop its citizens from getting licence exchanges as this was one of many rules that all countries signed up for. (well the Uk and Spain didn't, but the UK had to in the end as paper licences are not valid). 
So that leaves Spain being the only EU country not to have ratified the regulation, which is why Uk drives now face this issue. Oh and if you move to Italy you will need to take a test as well.
The UK decided to continue to honour the regulations for EU licences.

BUT and its a big one. As a Uk driver as you say with 40 years of experience, then why not allow you (and every one else) with this level of experience to just swap in any country they choose to live in?
Have you driven in Egypt, Oman, Saudi, India and don't get me started on Russia.. etc, their roads are a mess. And the drivers more so. I gave the hire car up in Oman after a couple of days and hired a taxi for the month I worked there, we had two accidents, ran a motorbike off the road (if you call it that) and had I don't know how many near misses. 
Would you be happy with these drivers being given free licences to drive on Uk roads? Not me.

The Uk is no longer a member of the club, so why should it be able to avail its self of the benefits?
I used to belong to a gym, don't now so, would it not be strange for me to complain I can't use the weights???

Besides the Uk only swaps with the following.. Australia, Barbados, British Virgin Islands, Canada, Falkland Islands, Faroe Islands, Hong Kong, Japan, Monaco, New Zealand, Republic of Korea, Singapore, South Africa, Switzerland, Zimbabwe
Not many seeing as there are 195 countries in the world, so the Uk is just as restrictive. Note the US is not included here as the Uk considers the driving ability to not be high enough.

Apart from the EU countries. Spain only allows exchanges from mostly Spanish speaking countries (and why not) its their choice...
Thems is now the rules, I would kindly suggest that Spain may not be the place you (or others who think its not fair) should be looking to move too.
My 2c and you can't see but Im smiling as I type this...


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## Man le-mans

I just don’t see the difference between a UK tourist being able to drive and someone getting residence from the Uk. 
If it was no on both parts I can understand that because of different standards of driving. 
Also yes I have driven in many different countries and as you say some worse than others. 
Maybe I should look elsewhere like Gibraltar


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## MataMata

Man le-mans said:


> I just don’t see the difference between a UK tourist being able to drive and someone getting residence from the Uk.


If true then it probably cannot be explained to you and I won't bother trying!


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## kaipa

I think if you are going to live in a country then you need to be willing to integrate into it as much as possible. If a UK licence holder is stopped by the police for a driving incident then it seems reasonable to expect them to speak a degree of English. They should be able to answer questions etc. I think most Brits would think that. However, for some reason Brits in Spain seem to think that it's unfair to expect them to Speak Spanish if they want a Spanish licence.


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## Man le-mans

I totally agree with you and I do think that the English are lazy when it comes to learning other languages. Which is why we have been trying to learn Spanish for the past 6 months since deciding we would like to move here. I also think that other countries have made it to easy for the English by talking in English when we are in their country. My thinking is schooling maybe isn’t as good in the UK as other countries but I maybe wrong. I will say that trying to talk Spanish I do find hard to pick up but our daughter seems to pick this up much easier


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## Barriej

Man le-mans said:


> I totally agree with you and I do think that the English are lazy when it comes to learning other languages. Which is why we have been trying to learn Spanish for the past 6 months since deciding we would like to move here. I also think that other countries have made it to easy for the English by talking in English when we are in their country. My thinking is schooling maybe isn’t as good in the UK as other countries but I maybe wrong. I will say that trying to talk Spanish I do find hard to pick up but our daughter seems to pick this up much easier


The biggest hurdle for the Uk is basically what other language do you teach in schools?
I don't agree that the education system is worse than others or that we are lazy. (I am but thats just me)

Its not that people are necessarily lazy, but whats the point in doing French at school, if you plan to spend your holidays in Germany?
Also what is it about sex linking objects, a table is a table, its not male or female, its what it is. This alone confuses me. 
And can you therefore these days have a gay or gender neutral table and is a trans table now a chair?. (joke 

English while the 3rd most spoken language in the world, it is however, the one spoken in more countries and the top one taught in all foreign countries.
Our Dutch, German, Scandinavian and Spanish neighbours children all learnt English as did most of their parents. It was not an option for many of them. 
Our Dutch friends would not even have thought of learning French, to them its not important, so why should it be to Uk peoples unless you wanted to live there.

Languages in Uk schools are an option when you get to choose your exams (I had to choose French from the list but 2 months later changed it to double art as that was what I wanted to do. Don't need french to paint although this was in 1976)

Our downstairs neighbours daughter who is 10 speaks better English than I do, in fact her mother complains that she doesn't speak enough Spanish at home as the TV is tuned to the Uk and she listens to Uk radio stations.


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## manuka

Just wondered...what about a European national previously living for 14 years in UK as right to remain etc in the Uk?.... having exchanged original licence for a UK Driving Licence, (but post Brexit, post withdrawal period) has moved to Spain to be a permanent resident?


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## MataMata

In that instance you would need to first reacquire a licence from your home country which you will not be able to do as EU rules mean that you can only apply for a licence in the country in which you are currently resident.


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## manuka

Yes that is what I thought, but only got here February 24th so a little time to go yet before residence permanently achieved in Spain.


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## xabiaxica

manuka said:


> Yes that is what I thought, but only got here February 24th so a little time to go yet before residence permanently achieved in Spain.


Not really. If you're an EU national you need to register as resident within 90 days of your arrival, so you have about three weeks to do so.

In order to get your EU licence back, you'd need to be resident in that country. 

I suppose you could go back & live there for a while before registering here, & come back to start life in Spain at a later date.


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## Overandout

When I moved to Thailand with a Spanish license, it was treated as a UK licence because it is clearly marked as an exchanged licence from a UK original, my UK driver's number is printed on it. Almost all countries do this because an exchanged licence doesn't have exactly the same value as one obtained by taking your test in that country.

So I'm pretty sure that a UK licence issued in exchange for an EU licence will be marked as such and therefore could be swapped to another EU licence without the need to revert back to the original document.

I wonder what Spain would do with a UK driver who already has an EU licence by having exchanged their original UK licence in France for example and then moves to Spain.


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## manuka

Exactly.


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## Barriej

Overandout said:


> When I moved to Thailand with a Spanish license, it was treated as a UK licence because it is clearly marked as an exchanged licence from a UK original, my UK driver's number is printed on it. Almost all countries do this because an exchanged licence doesn't have exactly the same value as one obtained by taking your test in that country.
> 
> So I'm pretty sure that a UK licence issued in exchange for an EU licence will be marked as such and therefore could be swapped to another EU licence without the need to revert back to the original document.
> 
> I wonder what Spain would do with a UK driver who already has an EU licence by having exchanged their original UK licence in France for example and then moves to Spain.


Ooo.
Not disputing anything you said.
BUT
My spanish licence has none of that on it. 
The only thing that makes any note of my origin is Reino Unido as place of birth.
No Uk licence number just my NIE
no 12 on the back according to the N332 website is supposed to carry the info you listed but all mine says is code 01 because I wear glasses for driving.

Can I ask others to check as this sort of thing interests me.
For ref my Spanish licence was issued 28/01/2021


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## Overandout

Barriej said:


> Ooo.
> Not disputing anything you said.
> BUT
> My spanish licence has none of that on it.
> The only thing that makes any note of my origin is Reino Unido as place of birth.
> No Uk licence number just my NIE
> no 12 on the back according to the N332 website is supposed to carry the info you listed but all mine says is code 01 because I wear glasses for driving.
> 
> Can I ask others to check as this sort of thing interests me.
> For ref my Spanish licence was issued 28/01/2021


Then you are lucky!

Mine has code 70 for exchanged permit and then my UK Driver number.

The code is still in use so you should have it.


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## Joppa

Overandout said:


> Mine has code 70 for exchanged permit and then my UK Driver number.
> 
> The code is still in use so you should have it.


I had my UK licence exchanged towards the end of 2020 and my Spanish licence is dated 3rd Dec 2020. No code 70 and no UK licence number. When I checked my old UK number on DVLA, it says the licence no longer current, exchanged for another.


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## tardigrade

There was a recent post from the person in charge of the negotiations(UK) or the actual ambassador and he said it is the UK holding them up by not wanting to share data so parking fines, moving fines can be paid by UK tourists in Spain.. I think Italy is having the same, dead end negotiations and their immigrant islanders are in the same boat concerning licenses.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520124801297395713


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## MataMata

Overandout said:


> I wonder what Spain would do with a UK driver who already has an EU licence by having exchanged their original UK licence in France for example and then moves to Spain.


I can answer that because that is exactly what I did and the French to Spanish exchange was processed without reference back to UK.

The French licence did bear my UK driver number and also the number 70 as that is, or at least was, the EU code for UK in relation to exchange or reciprocal documents, that included the French Carte Vitale (SIP) and in French tax matters.


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## Relyat

My licence, exchanged in 2018, bears the code and my DVLA licence number.


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## manuka

I guess there would be a problem with car hire a car (with a UK licence) now!


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## Overandout

manuka said:


> I guess there would be a problem with car hire a car (with a UK licence) now!


I'm sure you could still physically hire a car. 

If you tell them you are resident, or show them your TIE, then of course they will probably know that you can't legally drive in Spain with a UK licence and refuse the hire.
But if you just show your passport and UK licence they will probably just assume you are a tourist and let you take the car. I can't see them checking dates on the stamps in the passport.

You'll still be driving it illegally though. You'd probably also be liable for any damage or insurance claims also as thier policy would refuse cover and the terms of the hire would pass the liability to you as the illegal driver.


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## kaipa

I agree that the potential downside of driving with a UK licence whilst a resident would be that your insurance company would happily use that as justification for not paying out any insurance if you were involved in any accident. I assume that when intially taking insurance you are effectively asked about country of residence. I'm not sure whether they ask about your licence ( but maybe post Brexit they will).


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## xabiaxica

kaipa said:


> I agree that the potential downside of driving with a UK licence whilst a resident would be that your insurance company would happily use that as justification for not paying out any insurance if you were involved in any accident. I assume that when intially taking insurance you are effectively asked about country of residence. I'm not sure whether they ask about your licence ( but maybe post Brexit they will).


Surely the biggest downside would be that it's illegal to do so? At the moment, anyway, if you've been resident for more than 6 months. 

Also, insurance is automatically invalid if you are driving without a valid licence.


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## snikpoh

xabiaxica said:


> Surely the biggest downside would be that it's illegal to do so? At the moment, anyway, if you've been resident for more than 6 months.
> 
> Also, insurance is automatically invalid if you are driving without a valid licence.


Apart from 3rd party liability which you can never lose.


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## Overandout

snikpoh said:


> Apart from 3rd party liability which you can never lose.


Third party cover can never be "lost" because the innocent third party must be able to obtain compensation. But all policies allow the insurer to recover the damages paid out from the policy holder if they didn't comply with the requirements of the policy, i.e. have a valid licence.

Just because the insurers will pay out, doesn't mean that the illegal driver is off the hook! In fact for every Euro paid out in the claim, they will come claiming 1.50 from the non-compliant policy holder to cover their extra costs.


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## Joppa

Overandout said:


> Just because the insurers will pay out, doesn't mean that the illegal driver is off the hook! In fact for every Euro paid out in the claim, they will come claiming 1.50 from the non-compliant policy holder to cover their extra costs.


And if the claim was for personal injuries, the amount can rise to tens and hundreds of thousands of euros, which can bankrupt you. Since there is no point in suing someone who has no assets, in many cases the insurers swallow the loss, but make sure you are blacklisted for any kind of liability insurance policy.


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## kaipa

I heard just now that the UK has agreed to allow Spain access to its data base on UK drivers which means they can chase up Brits over any infringements committed in Spain etc. I think this was one of the blocks to allowing exchange of licences so maybe there will be a deal very soon.


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## sadlybroke

xabiaxica said:


> In order to get your EU licence back, you'd need to be resident in that country.
> 
> I suppose you could go back & live there for a while before registering here, & come back to start life in Spain at a later date.


It depends, some EU countries make it easier. This is my situation - dual UK/EU national with UK driving license. I registered as a temporary resident in my home EU country back in January while still remaining a permanent resident in the UK. After six months of temporary residence in the EU country, I will be able to exchange my UK driving license for one issued in my home country, which I will then exchange for a Spanish license when we move to Spain in August or September.


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## MataMata

kaipa said:


> I heard just now that the UK has agreed to allow Spain access to its data base on UK drivers which means they can chase up Brits over any infringements committed in Spain etc. I think this was one of the blocks to allowing exchange of licences so maybe there will be a deal very soon.


Heard where? 

Re hiring pretending to be non resident:

In that case you'd be obliged to carry your passport for ID which would bear an arrival stamp, plus possibly other evidence to support such a claim like your return ticket for instance, so busted right there.

Face it, there are no legal loopholes.


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## kaipa

MataMata said:


> Heard where?
> 
> Re hiring pretending to be non resident:
> 
> In that case you'd be obliged to carry your passport for ID which would bear an arrival stamp, plus possibly other evidence to support such a claim like your return ticket for instance, so busted right there.
> 
> Face it, there are no legal loopholes.



It was in Friday's edition of The Mail where it said that Spain and UK had reached agreement as to Spain having access to UK drives database and that this would smooth the path to a licence exchange agreement.


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## MataMata

The Daily Mail, seriously?


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## MataMata

*BREXPATS IN SPAIN INTERNATIONAL*
Anne Hernandez

*DRIVING LICENCE UPDATE*

Following my meeting with the British Embassy last Thursday it is clear that there really is no update to give. Negotiations continue between the UK and Spain and until any agreement is reached the UK licence for Brits with residency here ceased to be valid after 30 April.

*There are a few points to clarify though*.

The subject of driving licences was never part of the Withdrawal Agreement so each EU country has had to talk individually with the British government. Italy, Portugal and Spain have yet to reach bilateral agreements.

Apparently, even if you registered your intention to exchange before 30 Dec 2020, you cannot do it now. Unfortunately, those who did register their intention and then tried to exchange but were declined because they had renewed their UK driving licence in the meantime and the issue number is not the one that was validated by DGT. This was never explained and one would assume that if a licence reaches its expiry date it must be renewed.

Some EU residency holders believe they can still drive using their UK driving licence because they are not British passport holders. Incorrect. It is the country of issue - the nationality - of the driving licence that counts, not the nationality of the person.

There are always rumours, and given the enormity of losing the ability to drive here, I can understand that many are looking for loopholes but please be aware that there are NONE. Some are believing they can hire a car using their UK licence but not if in possession of a residency (TIE, old green card or A4 paper) here. Others think that having an International Driving Permit (IDP) replaces the UK driving licence it does not. The IDP is not a stand alone document it must accompany a valid driving licence.

If you are caught driving with a now invalid UK driving licence the fines can be high (up to €6,000) and you could even incur up to 6 months imprisonment if involved in an accident because your insurance would also be invalid.

So, please be aware that you can only drive on your UK licence for *6 months from your date of arrival in Spain or from the date of your residencia, whichever is first*. Otherwise, it is recommended that you enrol with an authorised driving school to study and sit your theory test which can be done in English and then you can apply to take a couple of practical driving lessons and sit your practical test which is in Spanish.

On a slightly different point, for British non residents who own or want to register ownership of a Spanish vehicle some regions insist a padrón is presented with the documentation. You should NOT be on the padrón if you are not a resident here. Being a non resident on the padrón equates to being a quasi resident in the eyes of the Spanish law and no British resident here is permitted to drive a UK-plated vehicle. We have had cases where the UK plated vehicles were impounded and huge fines imposed purely because they were on the padrón and driving their UK plated vehicle during their permitted 90 days here. Unfortunate for the local councils who receive funding from central government for every person on their padrón list but this needs to be pointed out because many are on the padrón as second home owners but not residents in Spain and drive over in their UK plated vehicles which could cause problems for them.

登录 Facebook


So much for the Daily Mail then!


----------



## kaipa

MataMata said:


> *BREXPATS IN SPAIN INTERNATIONAL*
> Anne Hernandez
> 
> *DRIVING LICENCE UPDATE*
> 
> Following my meeting with the British Embassy last Thursday it is clear that there really is no update to give. Negotiations continue between the UK and Spain and until any agreement is reached the UK licence for Brits with residency here ceased to be valid after 30 April.
> 
> *There are a few points to clarify though*.
> 
> The subject of driving licences was never part of the Withdrawal Agreement so each EU country has had to talk individually with the British government. Italy, Portugal and Spain have yet to reach bilateral agreements.
> 
> Apparently, even if you registered your intention to exchange before 30 Dec 2020, you cannot do it now. Unfortunately, those who did register their intention and then tried to exchange but were declined because they had renewed their UK driving licence in the meantime and the issue number is not the one that was validated by DGT. This was never explained and one would assume that if a licence reaches its expiry date it must be renewed.
> 
> Some EU residency holders believe they can still drive using their UK driving licence because they are not British passport holders. Incorrect. It is the country of issue - the nationality - of the driving licence that counts, not the nationality of the person.
> 
> There are always rumours, and given the enormity of losing the ability to drive here, I can understand that many are looking for loopholes but please be aware that there are NONE. Some are believing they can hire a car using their UK licence but not if in possession of a residency (TIE, old green card or A4 paper) here. Others think that having an International Driving Permit (IDP) replaces the UK driving licence it does not. The IDP is not a stand alone document it must accompany a valid driving licence.
> 
> If you are caught driving with a now invalid UK driving licence the fines can be high (up to €6,000) and you could even incur up to 6 months imprisonment if involved in an accident because your insurance would also be invalid.
> 
> So, please be aware that you can only drive on your UK licence for *6 months from your date of arrival in Spain or from the date of your residencia, whichever is first*. Otherwise, it is recommended that you enrol with an authorised driving school to study and sit your theory test which can be done in English and then you can apply to take a couple of practical driving lessons and sit your practical test which is in Spanish.
> 
> On a slightly different point, for British non residents who own or want to register ownership of a Spanish vehicle some regions insist a padrón is presented with the documentation. You should NOT be on the padrón if you are not a resident here. Being a non resident on the padrón equates to being a quasi resident in the eyes of the Spanish law and no British resident here is permitted to drive a UK-plated vehicle. We have had cases where the UK plated vehicles were impounded and huge fines imposed purely because they were on the padrón and driving their UK plated vehicle during their permitted 90 days here. Unfortunate for the local councils who receive funding from central government for every person on their padrón list but this needs to be pointed out because many are on the padrón as second home owners but not residents in Spain and drive over in their UK plated vehicles which could cause problems for them.
> 
> 登录 Facebook
> 
> 
> So much for the Daily Mail then!



Who is Anna Hernandez? Is she a UK official or just a reporter?


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## snikpoh

kaipa said:


> Who is Anna Hernandez? Is she a UK official or just a reporter?


just a reporter who has a FB group - used to be VERY big on remaining in the EU


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## MataMata

Now you're just being obtuse!


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## kaipa

MataMata said:


> Now you're just being obtuse!


It's not really. She isn't a UK official so she cant t issue official updates. She is just someone who says shetalked to some nameless individual in the embassy. In fact the whole article just sounds like an opinion piece to me so no better or worse than any piece of journalism.


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## xabiaxica

snikpoh said:


> just a reporter who has a FB group - used to be VERY big on remaining in the EU


She isn't a reporter & never has been afaik.

She does still run a FB group, & received a gong of some kind (MBE/ OBE? ) in the New Year list for her services to British people in Spain.


This however is the latest official infor from the British Consul




__ https://www.facebook.com/BritsInSpain/posts/373814538112431


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## snikpoh

xabiaxica said:


> She isn't a reporter & never has been afaik.
> 
> What I mean is she just reports on news and isn't an 'official'.Yes she campaigns on things that matter to her but again, not an official.


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## manuka

xabiaxica said:


> Surely the biggest downside would be that it's illegal to do so? At the moment, anyway, if you've been resident for more than 6 months.


So until we have been here 6 months we can drive on Uk licence?


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## kaipa

manuka said:


> So until we have been here 6 months we can drive on Uk licence?


 I think that is correct. Incidentally contrary to popular opinion the law always was ( before even Brexit) that you could only use a UK licence for 2 years after getting residency then you had to change it so folk who are complaining about Brexit and were here years before were technically driving illegally if they hadn't changed their licence.
I heard yesterday that the Guardia are being quite strict about this law and there have been quite a few checks between Punta Prima and torrevieja where UK nationals tend to live. I know one person who has had to go as far as Orihuela to try and find a school where she could start practicing for the test as all the local ones are full. My ex is helping her with understanding Spanish instructions as she has been told that the instructor ( who speaks English and is in the car is not allowed to talk so translating is not allowed). Its quite a task to be honest- trying to focus on understanding instructions in Spanish and driving
!! However, I do think that there will be an agreement before the end of the summer as long as the UK accept that they can not be a country where they get to control absolutely everything!


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## snikpoh

kaipa said:


> I think that is correct. Incidentally contrary to popular opinion the law always was ( before even Brexit) that you could only use a UK licence for 2 years after getting residency then you had to change it so folk who are complaining about Brexit and were here years before were technically driving illegally if they hadn't changed their licence.
> I heard yesterday that the Guardia are being quite strict about this law and there have been quite a few checks between Punta Prima and torrevieja where UK nationals tend to live. I know one person who has had to go as far as Orihuela to try and find a school where she could start practicing for the test as all the local ones are full. My ex is helping her with understanding Spanish instructions as she has been told that the instructor ( who speaks English and is in the car is not allowed to talk so translating is not allowed). Its quite a task to be honest- trying to focus on understanding instructions in Spanish and driving
> !! However, I do think that there will be an agreement before the end of the summer as long as the UK accept that they can not be a country where they get to control absolutely everything!


Actually, not correct. Provided class B was for no more than 10 (15?) years and class C was for no more that 5 years, the plastic card was valid until it expired.

Many, many people say otherwise but that was the law.

https://sede.dgt.gob.es/es/permisos...os/renovacion-permiso-comunitario/index.shtml


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## Overandout

Getting deep into technicalities with this but any resident of Spain who uses their UK licence for any amount of time after moving is actually driving without a valid licence because your UK licence is only valid for as long as you remain a UK resident.

The Spanih GC might accept it based on Snikpoh's posted content, but if they were to check with the DVLA they would find that the licence was invalidated as soon as the holder became a resident of Spain.


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## Kev.

stevesainty said:


> But that is DVLA accessing DGT, not necessarily a two way street.


Well that is the Spanish government that’s isn’t bothered, not the U.K.


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## xabiaxica

Here's the latest from the British Consulate. Basically nothing has changed. 




__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=734896504531837


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## xabiaxica

Today's latest news from the UK Consulate




__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1105226143394430


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## kaipa

God I'm so fed up with this....when will the UK finally admit that Brexit was a huge mistake. We cant drive on UK licences, not because Spain are being mean or stubborn. We cant drive because we decided that we didn't want to be part of the EU and their rules. We apparently waved our little flags and told everyone how free and happy we would be without the evil EU taking our money, taking our jobs, dumping immigrants on our shores. We were going to be a sovereign state!!
Well now we have it and guess what .....no one is happy....and who is to blame? ......that horrible EU!. Look at Ireland...what a mess. Basically there has to be a border somewhere because that is what sovereignty means. We are separate, different not the same. Listening to this guy you would think that someone other than him is making life terribly inconvenient for poor Brits in spain. They cant reach an agreement for the simple reason... unless the UK gets its cake and eats it is not Brexit and if it's not Brexit we are not sovereign and we have to be like everyone else...and we aren't....we are Brits. God save the Queen!!


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## MataMata

Overandout said:


> Getting deep into technicalities with this but any resident of Spain who uses their UK licence for any amount of time after moving is actually driving without a valid licence because your UK licence is only valid for as long as you remain a UK resident.
> 
> The Spanih GC might accept it based on Snikpoh's posted content, but if they were to check with the DVLA they would find that the licence was invalidated as soon as the holder became a resident of Spain.


Completely wrong on both points.


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## MataMata

xabiaxica said:


> Today's latest news from the UK Consulate
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1105226143394430


Not seeing a link there but I guess this is probably what you're referring to.

https://video.falc1-1.fna.fbcdn.net...H-AOsAw8lOtG6l5Ld-cKyBIW9cDfMUblQ&oe=62880128


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## dancingspider

kaipa said:


> God I'm so fed up with this....when will the UK finally admit that Brexit was a huge mistake. We cant drive on UK licences, not because Spain are being mean or stubborn. We cant drive because we decided that we didn't want to be part of the EU and their rules. We apparently waved our little flags and told everyone how free and happy we would be without the evil EU taking our money, taking our jobs, dumping immigrants on our shores. We were going to be a sovereign state!!
> Well now we have it and guess what .....no one is happy....and who is to blame? ......that horrible EU!. Look at Ireland...what a mess. Basically there has to be a border somewhere because that is what sovereignty means. We are separate, different not the same. Listening to this guy you would think that someone other than him is making life terribly inconvenient for poor Brits in spain. They cant reach an agreement for the simple reason... unless the UK gets its cake and eats it is not Brexit and if it's not Brexit we are not sovereign and we have to be like everyone else...and we aren't....we are Brits. God save the Queen!!


Spot on!


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## xabiaxica

I'm beginning to think that it would have been better all round if there had never been any negotiation about UK licences remaining valid.

I suspect that many are stuck unable to drive now, because they were holding off taking the test, expecting a deal. At least if there had been no negotiations, they'd have had no choice but to take the test, & would at a minimum have been studying for it or have perhaps even passed it by now.


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## dancingspider

Yes, I must agree!

Well many felt as they were 'expats', they were entitled to special treatment and an agreement would be reached sooner or later.


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## snikpoh

Overandout said:


> Getting deep into technicalities with this but any resident of Spain who uses their UK licence for any amount of time after moving is actually driving without a valid licence because your UK licence is only valid for as long as you remain a UK resident.
> 
> The Spanih GC might accept it based on Snikpoh's posted content, but if they were to check with the DVLA they would find that the licence was invalidated as soon as the holder became a resident of Spain.


So wrong!

The DVLA website even specifies what happens when you move abroad - your UK d/l does NOT become invalid once you become a foreign resident.

Where do you get this?


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## kaipa

snikpoh said:


> So wrong!
> 
> The DVLA website even specifies what happens when you move abroad - your UK d/l does NOT become invalid once you become a foreign resident.
> 
> Where do you get this?


Okay your uk licence is valid in UK but it is not valid in the sense of being legally allowed to drive, in Spain once you become a resident. That is the point surely?


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## Overandout

This is from the Gov UK page on how to change your address on your licence. (Underlining by me.)

You can draw your own conclusion, which many of you already have, but if you retain your UK driving licence at a UK address when you are no longer a resident of the UK you are not complying with the requirements to hold that licence.

_You can be fined up to £1,000 if you do not tell DVLA when your address changes.
You need:_

_your driving licence_
_to be a resident of Great Britain - there’s a __different process in Northern Ireland_


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## MataMata

When will you give up on your nonsense, your 'info' relates to UK residents not expats.

It's long been the stance of DVLA that a UK licence cannot bear a non UK address but that *DOES NOT RENDER A LICENCE INVALID!*

This is a reply received just days ago from DVLA in response to the question, if it invalidated a licence do you not think they would have said so?

Give it up and accept that you are wrong.


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## xabiaxica

Yet another (non) update from the Consul




> _Driving Licence negotiations update_
> We’ve concluded another round of Driving Licence negotiations this week and we continue to make good progress towards an agreement that is acceptable to the UK and Spain. We are working as quickly as possible and will provide a further update next week.
> We know that many people are experiencing great difficulties as a result of UK Licences not currently being recognised in Spain for residents of more than 6 months and that many of you are not able to take a Spanish test. We are reading all your messages and though we can’t reply to them all individually, we understand how frustrated, angry and anxious you are. We are sharing your messages with Spanish authorities and doing all we can to reach an agreement as soon as possible.
> If you need help or advice, please do get in touch with your local town hall as they, or many of the local charities, may be able to help with transport options – particularly if you need it for medical reasons. Support in Spain is also a useful source of information and if you find yourself made vulnerable as a result of this, you can get in touch with your nearest consulate and you will find their details on gov.uk.
> We will continue to keep you updated as talks resume next week so please look out for messages here and on the Living in Spain Guide on gov.uk.


Brits in Spain


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## kaipa

Basically the same update as previous ones which means absolutely nothing has changed for the simple reason UK doesn't want Spain to have access to its driver data base ( because its obsessed with total control). I very much doubt Spain gives a flying fudge!. This is just going to continue as its is of no great concern to Spain if Brits have to do driving tests. Immigrants in UK are expected to jump through considerably more hoops before they feel settled.


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## snikpoh

kaipa said:


> Okay your uk licence is valid in UK but it is not valid in the sense of being legally allowed to drive, in Spain once you become a resident. That is the point surely?


It is/was absolutely valid outside of UK. I don't know where people are getting this misinformation but please stop it - it makes it all so confusing!


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## xabiaxica

snikpoh said:


> It is/was absolutely valid outside of UK. I don't know where people are getting this misinformation but please stop it - it makes it all so confusing!


It is ONLY valid to use in Spain now for residents of Spain who have lived here for under 6 months.


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## xabiaxica

No news is...


> A message from HMA Hugh Elliott on driving licences
> A shorter message this week, but my key point is that things continue to progress well. And, whilst there’s nothing specific to share with you, no news isn’t bad news and what I said last week still stands. Getting you back on the road is our top priority in the Embassy and we are working on it every day. There will be a further, more substantive update next week.
> I understand your frustration that this process is taking so long and the very practical impact this has had on many people’s everyday lives. And I know that you would like an exact date when this will be concluded, but we can’t make any guarantees. As soon as we have a clearer picture we will let you know, but I am confident in saying we are nearly there.
> I have heard from many of you directly and recognise that it can be especially difficult if you are living out in the campo or in an isolated spot, taxis may not be an option and you may be exhausting the goodwill of your neighbours. But do reach out to your local ayuntamiento if you need assistance and, in some places, charities and community groups can help with transport. And, as ever, if you are in a particularly vulnerable situation, or someone you know is, please get in touch with your nearest consulate to see if they can offer any additional advice. You can find their details on gov.uk. Thank you


Message

Brits in Spain


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## kaipa

I am starting to get the feeling that they will grant another 6 months grace period for those registered before Brexit who haven't already changed their licences and that is that. You get the feeling that Spain aren't going to allow UK licences to be exchanged for new arrivals and therefore tests are required. I imagine that issues like Gibraltar still shape discussions for the Spanish and likewise Brexit and sovereignty ( ie not wanting Spain to have access to uk data) shapes the uk side of things. If not this would have been sorted out ages ago- clearly there are issues that we are not privy to.


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## Relyat

Quite, I also don't understand why these issues are kept secret. 
What is there to hide?


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## MataMata

Blah blah blah

https://questions-statements.parliament.uk/written-questions/detail/2022-05-11/822

Blah blah blah

https://questions-statements.parliament.uk/written-questions/detail/2022-06-06/13285


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## stevesainty

On the Brexpats pages on FB, there is a thread that shows lessons and a test need not be so daunting. https://www.facebook.com/groups/brexpatsinspain/permalink/2128618803965784/


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## xabiaxica

stevesainty said:


> On the Brexpats pages on FB, there is a thread that shows lessons and a test need not be so daunting. Iniciar sesión en Facebook


I don't drive, & I do speak Spanish, so I don't have a horse in this race; but other non-Spanish speaking recent arrivals have been having to take tests for many years, & they seem to manage it, so I must admit that I've been struggling to understand why some people are getting their bragas so bunched!


----------



## Overandout

I have to admit that I wondered why the advice from Hugh Elliott is so focused on "hang in there, we'll get there". Why doesn't he suggest that people actually do what the law requires them to do to drive?

Yes, OK so the law might change, but if you can't wait, act!


----------



## kaipa

xabiaxica said:


> I don't drive, & I do speak Spanish, so I don't have a horse in this race; but other non-Spanish speaking recent arrivals have been having to take tests for many years, & they seem to manage it, so I must admit that I've been struggling to understand why some people are getting their bragas so bunched!


Actually there was a La sexta report on chinese people getting their licence in Spain and it showed it was a huge scandal- basically other people did the test for you. The reporter actually goes up to a candidate and asks if they know what semáforo y klaxon means and the guy has no idea despite passing the test in Spanish!


----------



## xabiaxica

Latest update video


----------



## kaipa

xabiaxica said:


> Latest update video


I assume that the agreement will be for everyone whether they are pre or post Brexit? Or is he being sly and means that it will only be for those Pre Brexit folk who didn't exchange the first time?


----------



## xabiaxica

Latest nothing to see here update from the consulate 




> A message from HMA Hugh Elliott on driving licence negotiations
> This is a very quick update following my video message last week. We have been in discussions with our Spanish counterparts various times this week, we continue to make progress towards finalising the text of the agreement. Other than that, what I said last week still stands and we will continue to keep you updated as soon as we have something substantive to report. Thank you.


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## xabiaxica

*No news 'isn't bad news'.*



> *DRIVING LICENCE NEGOTIATION UPDATE*
> We continue to work hard on driving licence negotiations – it remains a top priority in the Embassy and though there is no specific news to share with you this week, no news isn’t bad news. Technical talks continue with Spain and we remain on track, though the pace is slower than we would all like. Please continue to monitor this page for updates.
> We are very aware of the significant difficulties faced by those of you unable to drive and many of you have quite reasonably asked why the interim measures, that allowed you to drive on your UK licence before, cannot be reinstated while we work through these final stages. We have again made that request to Spain and are awaiting a response. In the meantime, we will continue work on the agreement itself with the Spanish Government next week.


Update from British Consulate 1 July 2022


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## Relyat

No news is.......... no news.


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## kaipa

xabiaxica said:


> *No news 'isn't bad news'.*
> 
> 
> 
> Update from British Consulate 1 July 2022



Love the " slower than we would like" with its implication that this is Spain's doing and not theirs. Let's remind ourselves: who wanted to leave the EU and no longer abide by the rules of others?


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## bigredbear

kaipa said:


> Love the " slower than we would like" with its implication that this is Spain's doing and not theirs. Let's remind ourselves: who wanted to leave the EU and no longer abide by the rules of others?


I don't think that many Brits are under the illusion that this is not of our own doing. Even some of them that voted for BREXIT are seeing the cracks. Fingers crossed for a fair solution soon.


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## MataMata

It's all beginning to sound like a broken record!


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## xabiaxica

MataMata said:


> It's all beginning to sound like a broken record!


Funny you should say that...

Update 8/7/2022




> _Driving Licence Negotiation Update_
> A brief message to keep you up to date with the driving licence negotiations. We know that progress is slower than both you and we would like, and that is frustrating. We are still working through the final technicalities with the Spanish Government and hope to have a more substantive update next week.
> We are very aware of the difficulties that this is causing some of you and that the expected heatwave this coming week could be particularly challenging. Resolving this remains our top priority and we will continue to update you on this channel.


----------



## xabiaxica

It continues to be a top priority

Video from the Consulate


----------



## MataMata

Saw that, didn't post it as I couldn't see anything in it worth the wear on the keyboard!


----------



## xabiaxica

Update 22 July 2022



> *UPDATE ON DRIVING LICENCE NEGOTIATIONS*
> We know there are lots of questions and concerns about the ongoing negotiations on driving licence exchange. We’ve rounded up the most common questions you’re sending in to provide you with more information, as well as an update on what’s happened this week.
> We also know that all you want is to be back on the roads - and we want this too. We hope the below is helpful in providing transparency and understanding around the process.
> **
> *When are we going to be able to drive again?*
> We don’t know for sure because it is a live negotiation, but the UK’s ambition is to reach a deal as soon as possible. We genuinely are making progress each week. For example, this week we have agreed the main text, which means there are only the annexes outstanding. We recognise it has been frustratingly slow though.
> *Will it be before the end of July? Will talks be paused over August?*
> It remains our aspiration to agree the remaining parts as soon as possible. The important paperwork from Spain, which the Ambassador mentioned as outstanding last Friday, arrived this morning (22/07) and the UK team is now reviewing it as quickly as they can. Once everything is finalised, the agreement will then need legal and political approvals. We are committed to get this through the UK and Spanish systems quickly, however, as we’ve said before, we cannot make any guarantees.
> We have sought assurances from the Spanish Government that we can continue negotiating in August if needs be. On the UK side, we have a full team available to cover this negotiation over the summer because it is a top priority for us.
> *At what point in the process are you?*
> This week we have agreed the main text – which is positive news. We now need to agree the annexes before the whole package can go forward for final legal and political approvals.
> *Why has it taken so long?*
> Creating an international treaty is always complex. In this instance, the Spanish Government also asked for data provision to form part of the driving licence exchange process, something which no other EU Member State asked for, and which requires careful legal and operational considerations. We have been required to seek additional legal advice from data experts and establish additional annexes to the main agreement. All of this has taken a lot of back and forth and therefore, a lot of time.
> *Can you tell us what you discuss in each meeting?*
> We want to be open and transparent about the negotiations, but we can’t give a running commentary on every meeting. This would be counterproductive to what we’re trying to achieve, which is to get you back on the roads as soon as possible.
> *Why can’t the temporary measures be reinstated now?*
> We have asked for this but Spain have not agreed to the request.
> *Who are the key players in negotiations?*
> The negotiations are being led by the Department of Transport (DfT) on the UK side and the Interior Ministry’s DVLA equivalent agency, Dirección General de Tráfico (DGT), on the Spanish side, in collaboration with The British Embassy in Spain and the Spanish Ministry of Foreign Affairs.


----------



## tebo53

xabiaxica said:


> Update 22 July 2022


Still as was then...

Steve


----------



## MataMata

Ambition, aspiration, flowery BS

Christmas if your lucky is my guess!

Don't forget these 'negotiations' could have covered in the WA and it's only because Spain dug in and refused to agree to yet another extension that they are going on now.


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## dancingspider

The situation is simply getting more fraught between the UK and the EU!

The UK is failing to implement the NI protocol and EU has launched more cases against the EU, which will be heard at the ECJ.

I wouldn't be expecting any cooperation between EU countries and the UK, anytime soon.

Why would the EU agree to anything when the UK government can't keep it word on an international agreement it signed. 

Absolutely shameful!


----------



## AnthonyPM

I have just heard that the again the news about changing UK to Spain driving licence had been put back again with a charming fob off.
This is what I wrote the the Costa blanca forums before I heard the update at lunch today.
I thought got the nNLV licence was difficult enough but the worst thing by far is the humiliation and stress for especially older drivers.
I was walking to take my test this Tues but the need to have green L plates and possibly more expensive car insurance was the final straw for me . I'm not continuing this charade any longer, I will shop with a trolly cart and wait this out.
If I knew that this driving test would be so difficult and expensive I might have changed my mind about getting residencia. 
"

Your post ties in with what occured to me when I was in my school on Wednesday., I saw about 4 Brits posing for a photo with the green learning cards, so I assumed that they had passed the test. But then it occured to me that the L plates might add further restrictions on us nlv,ers just like you have mentioned, i.e have the additional insurance cost and other restrictions.

So I have spent nearly 430 euros for the theory test and another 600 euros on practise tests (my instructor told me and another lady it would take 18 lessions for us to pass our driving test.) And then if you pass the driving test you have to drive around with a learner L plates which I would think will include extra insurance costs.

But if "they" change the law at the end of July as the UK embassador at Alicant intimated then NLV drivers will, I would expect, be allowed to change their UK licence cheaply and without being lumbered with a L plate.

I was forced into taking the test because my partner is lame so we need the car otherwise I would have quit the car and used my bike.

This really has turned out to be a stressful and expensive pig's ear. I've had 4 weeks of stress , first passing the theory test and then taking lesson. I doubt whether many UK older citizens will be able to pass and will find it extremely stressful not with standing that this law is without basis, the Spanish can drive in UK without changing their licence and as far as I know no other EU country is enforcing this rule.

My instructor fail to turn up for my lesson today, said he hadn't understood me but to be honest I was relieved because driving around Orihuela with 2 other students for 4 hours is not my idea if fun.

I'm seriously thinking of cancelling my test on Tues and waiting for the govn's announcement. I can always take my first test in Seotember and be carless for a few weeks until I pass the test . Se la vie!

I will ask my car insurer on Monday if I indeed will have to pay extra insurance and if yes, how much."


----------



## rspltd

dancingspider said:


> The situation is simply getting more fraught between the UK and the EU!
> 
> The UK is failing to implement the NI protocol and EU has launched more cases against the EU, which will be heard at the ECJ.
> 
> I wouldn't be expecting any cooperation between EU countries and the UK, anytime soon.
> 
> Why would the EU agree to anything when the UK government can't keep it word on an international agreement it signed.
> 
> Absolutely shameful!


I think you have been listening for too long to the propaganda being issued by certain parts of the EU. If you read the WA You will see that there is provision to take unilateral action (something that the EU had threatened previously and I don’t remember them being accused of breaking International Law), Section 16 lays down a procedure for settling disputes indeed for solving issues whereby the agreement is not working as originally envisaged. Unfortunately it takes two to tango and the EU is currently sitting this one out.


----------



## MataMata

AnthonyPM said:


> But if "they" change the law at the end of July as the UK embassador at Alicant intimated then NLV drivers will, I would expect, be allowed to change their UK licence cheaply and without being lumbered with a L plate.


Spain have already pledged that if and when an agreement is signed and actually in place UK licence holders will be able to immediately resume driving and be given 6 months to effect an exchange.

While the 'if' may be a bit less in doubt then it was the 'when' is still anybody's guess.


----------



## kaipa

How can they make a pledge on the outcome of an agreement they havent reached?


----------



## MataMata

kaipa said:


> How can they make a pledge on the outcome of an agreement they havent reached?


Seriously?


----------



## xabiaxica

Friday update from the consulate



> *UPDATE ON DRIVING LICENCE NEGOTIATIONS*
> In response to positive feedback on the format of last week’s post, we have prepared another Q&A to provide an update on negotiations and round up some of your frequently asked questions.
> As we have said before, there are some details we cannot go into, as that could run the risk of derailing the negotiations – which is the last thing that any of us want. However, we are being as transparent as we possibly can and we hope this post is helpful.
> **
> *What has happened this week?*
> Intensive talks have continued this week, concluding in a productive meeting between UK and Spanish officials today. However, there remains some outstanding work to be done to agree the annexes. Also this week, the Ambassador met with citizens’ rights groups representing UK Nationals from across Spain to hear their perspectives on local issues and answer questions from their members.
> *Will negotiations go on into August?*
> Yes. Last week we said that we’d sought assurances on this and that, on the UK side, we had a full negotiating team available. Spain have now confirmed that they can continue negotiations with us over August, which we’re very grateful for.
> We recognise that many people are considering their whereabouts over August and so would like to know more about the negotiation timeline. Although, as we’ve said before, it’s impossible to give an exact date on when they will conclude, we want to be open about the fact things may take longer than we’d like during August.
> *What happens once the agreement is final?*
> Once the negotiation teams have agreed the text, it will then go forward for final legal and political approvals. On the Spanish side, this means going through the ‘Consejo de Ministros’ (Spanish Cabinet). On the UK side, it will be approved by relevant Ministers.
> Then it will be published in the BOE (state bulletin) and should come into force the same day. You will then have six months to exchange your UK licence for a Spanish one (without having to take a test) and during that time you will be able to drive using your UK licence.
> *Will there be enough exchange appointments?*
> It will be for the Spanish Government to administer the process and ensure the provision of appointments. This is something we have raised throughout negotiations and Spain is conscious of the possible number of UK nationals who may need to exchange during the six-month window.
> We would encourage you to get an appointment as soon as you can and not leave it until the last minute, remembering that you do not have to exchange where you are resident if there is greater availability elsewhere.
> *My UK licence has expired. Will I still be able to get a Spanish licence?*
> The fact that some people’s licences have expired, or are about to, has been taken into account by the negotiating team. Expired licences shall be accepted provided that they were valid at the time that the licence holder entered Spain.
> *Will the agreement only apply to those who were here before the end of 2020 and registered their intent to exchange?*
> No. The agreement will apply to anyone holding a UK licence, whether they were here before the end of 2020 or whether they move here in the future.


----------



## MataMata

Hardly an update is it?


----------



## Relyat

MataMata said:


> Hardly an update is it?


No more, or less, than previous messages.


----------



## Relyat

Either the usual one is on leave, or they thought it would sound better coming from someone 8n "authority".
Nonetheless SNAFU.



https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=pfbid0NAWma9amtc4R9sNmfmfVJHWbw7RhyXZ8SDoBTL3p7o8zWhuiCAnvVQKESg7ya5DUl&id=100064516637663


----------



## kaipa

So...spanish nationals resident in uk have suffered no limitations or inconveniences in exchanging tbeir licences whereas Uk nats resident in spain have. All good and well till you take into account that all Spanish resident in uk have to speak English which no doubt makes it alot easier for police and authorities to deal with accidents, infringements etc however, typical British attitude is that learning English is easy and therefore not an inconvenience. So if they want a level playing field then all Brits wanting residency should speak Spanish then they can exchange their licences. Seems perfectly fair for both sides!


----------



## Barriej

kaipa said:


> So...spanish nationals resident in uk have suffered no limitations or inconveniences in exchanging tbeir licences whereas Uk nats resident in spain have. All good and well till you take into account that all Spanish resident in uk have to speak English which no doubt makes it alot easier for police and authorities to deal with accidents, infringements etc however, typical British attitude is that learning English is easy and therefore not an inconvenience. So if they want a level playing field then all Brits wanting residency should speak Spanish then they can exchange their licences. Seems perfectly fair for both sides!


I think all the Uk did was to make an EU wide decision about licences and exchanges.
However they then had to talk to all countries individually to get an agreement. Most of them seem to just reciprocated.

There its no language requirement for exchanging licences in the Uk once your EU country one expires. Thats just for those who want to move over to the UK via the visa. Some EU countries already insist on 3rd country immigrants having a level of local language ability.

Thing Ive found strange about all of this is that Spain has the largest resident population of Brits in the whole of the EU, 407,000 approx. So why was Spain not the first country to be approached to continue or come up with a licence exchange scheme????

Smells like the Uk don't care really and why should Spain care?
If anything it gets them a nice added extra income for the driving schools and the DGT for the tests...


----------



## kaipa

Barriej said:


> I think all the Uk did was to make an EU wide decision about licences and exchanges.
> However they then had to talk to all countries individually to get an agreement. Most of them seem to just reciprocated.
> 
> There its no language requirement for exchanging licences in the Uk once your EU country one expires. Thats just for those who want to move over to the UK via the visa. Some EU countries already insist on 3rd country immigrants having a level of local language ability.
> 
> Thing Ive found strange about all of this is that Spain has the largest resident population of Brits in the whole of the EU, 407,000 approx. So why was Spain not the first country to be approached to continue or come up with a licence exchange scheme????
> 
> Smells like the Uk don't care really and why should Spain care?
> If anything it gets them a nice added extra income for the driving schools and the DGT for the tests...


To exchange your spanish licence for a uk one you need to be a uk resident and to be a uk resident you need to speak English. My point is that if people want to things to be equal ( ie those expats who are complainng) then you should equally be able to speak Spanish to exchange your licence. Now I know this isnt why negotiations arent happening but parts of the uk media are suggesting that there is no equality in the system and that it is easy for Spanish to exchange a licence - without accepting they all have to learn English.


----------



## MataMata

It's not about equality though, it's simply the difference between a one way agreement, which existed between between Spain and UK before Brexit, and a bi-lateral agreement which is what's (supposedly) under negotiation.

It's the reason why there are no legal grounds for banning Spanish licence holders in the UK from the road as some would propose.


----------



## dancingspider

Seems to me that this topic has been flogged to death...


----------



## Barriej

kaipa said:


> To exchange your spanish licence for a uk one you need to be a uk resident and to be a uk resident you need to speak English. My point is that if people want to things to be equal ( ie those expats who are complainng) then you should equally be able to speak Spanish to exchange your licence. Now I know this isnt why negotiations arent happening but parts of the uk media are suggesting that there is no equality in the system and that it is easy for Spanish to exchange a licence - without accepting they all have to learn English.


While I agree, its the rule the Uk decided on but we are not concerned about the Uk's licence swap agreements in this thread.. 
However Spain does not and has not demanded any 3rd country immigrant be proficient in its language to either become a resident or to swap licences. So your point is not valid.

However a tit for tat approach would be childish and I expect if a language rule were in place very few would bother to move here (or anywhere else for that matter). 
Its probably why Spain has the largest immigrant UK population of all of the EU, France requires a language test as do germany and a couple of other countries for migrants.

If language had be a condition when we moved over (which even with freedom of movement it could have been) I would have only ever maintained the flat as a holiday home here and not bothered to retire here.

I know I started this thread but Im finished with it now....


----------



## MataMata

France has recently announced that they will be introducing language competancy in residency applications.

At a stroke that will kill Brit immigration stone dead.


----------



## blondebob

Pourquoi?


----------



## Joppa

blondebob said:


> Pourquoi?


If you are referring to proposal to introduce French language requirement for those wishing to live in France, I guess it is to do with appeasing the right-wing electorates which have shown a strong growth in recent elections. It's mainly directed at third-world immigrants and lack of competence in the language for some has been cited as one of the reasons for non-integration. While it's not specifically directed at UK would-be residents, being third-country nationals means they will be affected. Those living under the WA are safe - only those who need a visa to live there.


----------



## number9

I suppose this will likely be a reason, for those from the UK, not to move to Spain. I certainly wouldn't want to arrive now and have the aggravation/ expense of taking a test and becoming a new driver all over again. Thankfully we arrived before the wheel was un-invented and could exchange.


----------



## dancingspider

https://www.theolivepress.es/spain-news/2022/08/07/new-online-guide-tells-brits-everything-they-need-to-know-about-driving-in-spain/


----------



## xabiaxica

No new news...



> _Driving Licence Negotiations_
> This week, we have continued working with the Spanish Government to settle the small number of outstanding points in the annexes. We still have a full team on this, working as quickly as they can to conclude the negotiations, so that you can get back on the road as soon as possible.
> We do understand how tough this situation is for some of you that are currently unable to drive and the difficult circumstances you may find yourselves in. Concluding these negotiations remains our top priority and we will post an update as soon as we have developments to share.
> In the meantime, if you have specific questions, do look back at our posts from the last three weeks, which aim to cover the majority of FAQs.


----------



## kaipa

In a way these bulletins are more likely contributing even more to people's stress. Basically saying each time that is now simply a case of dotting the "I"s suggests it will be solved within a matter of days but this has been going on for months so it can't be a done deal yet!
Besides most of these governmental departments are no doubt on holiday for the month of August.


----------



## dancingspider

Well on the positive side you can place your trust in the new Conservative leader, who is about to take office, when they finish the verbal sparring and put it to a vote.


----------



## Bigbroondug

I've read the thread but could I just check are you allowed to drive for a certain period from arrival of is it When you apply for residency? Does this mean in tourists can't hire cars? Would you be allowed to drive a scooter with a UK licence?


----------



## snikpoh

Bigbroondug said:


> I've read the thread but could I just check are you allowed to drive for a certain period from arrival of is it When you apply for residency? Does this mean in tourists can't hire cars? Would you be allowed to drive a scooter with a UK licence?


Tourists are just fine although some car hire places are asking to see an IDP (even though it isn't legally required).

For residents, it's 6 months from being resident (rather than when you arrive I think).


----------



## Barriej

Bigbroondug said:


> I've read the thread but could I just check are you allowed to drive for a certain period from arrival of is it When you apply for residency? Does this mean in tourists can't hire cars? Would you be allowed to drive a scooter with a UK licence?


One of those standup electric things yes. A petrol powered 50cc to 125cc Nope you need a licence. 
The 50cc ones (with the yellow plate) can be ridden on a basic A1 licence, which may be easier to get than a full licence.
However should there ever be an exchange you are allowed to ride a 125cc motorbike on a standard car licence here after having the licence for 2 years (exchanged ones allow it from day one).


----------



## xabiaxica

Negotiations continue...



> _Driving licence negotiations_
> The negotiations remain a top priority and teams are working hard to conclude them as quickly as possible. In the last two weeks, we have made further progress on the annexes and we and DfT are currently waiting for the Spanish to come back to us on some outstanding points. As soon as we have anything further to update on, we will let you know.
> We are very aware of the difficulties and frustration this is causing many of you – particularly in the heat of the summer. We read all your messages and continue to share examples of the difficulties being faced with the negotiating teams. A reminder that if you find yourself in a really vulnerable position, please do call our consular team on 0034 917 146 300 who will do their best to advise on any support that may be available.


----------



## Bigbroondug

If you reside in an area where there is a very large expat community is there a chance you would get or could request an English speaker for the test? Is it part of the law it needs to be in Spanish?


----------



## kaipa

Bigbroondug said:


> If you reside in an area where there is a very large expat community is there a chance you would get or could request an English speaker for the test? Is it part of the law it needs to be in Spanish?


There is nothing on the DGT website stating that the practical test needs to be done in spanish but then again it neither states languages that it can be done in. The theory can be done in English- so you would think the practical could. There are stories out there about people doing it in English but nothing official. I imagine that there would need to be some kind of formal requirement for the examiners as wrong instructions or mispronounced words could lead to all kinds of problems. I would imagine that most spanish would feel it unfair that if they were to do a test in uk it has to be done in English ( how else can you communicate in the event of a serious accident) whereas us Brits wish to be treated differently. That said spanish can simply exchange their licences in UK so again its not really a level playing field. Still count yourself lucky you dont live in France where Brits now need French to get visas.


----------



## xabiaxica

Latest apology / update from the consulate



> Driving licence negotiations
> Many of you have told us you were worried by the lack of an update over the last two weeks. Please be assured that work continues intensively between the British and Spanish authorities, even when we don’t post. And, of course, the events of last week overtook all of our communications.
> We recognise that the negotiations are taking longer than we anticipated and longer than either you or we want. We know that, above all else, you want to know when you will be able to drive. We are genuinely making progress on resolving the outstanding points but, for reasons we’ve explained before, we cannot be definitive about the timescale. So, as we have always said, if it is imperative that you drive, our advice remains to consider taking a test, though we recognise that this can take some time.
> We also know you would like more detail on what the hold-up is, but the outstanding issues are complex and we cannot comment on all the detail.
> We know that this is frustrating to hear and we don’t underestimate the huge impact this is having on those of you affected. As soon as we are able to provide a further update we will, but we are afraid that we cannot respond to every individual message that comes in. However, as soon as we have new information we will make it public.


----------



## Bigbroondug

Sounds promising..... Thank you for the update.


----------



## number9

Can't be definitive on timescale, cant go into detail on the obstacles (as it's all very complicated/ complex - translated that means people are too stupid to understand). Can't respond to individuals. Suggest people take a Spanish test. Cherry on the top - attempt to blame additional delays on the Queen's death. Desperate.


----------



## Relyat

Not promising, not desperate, just the same old story.


----------



## MataMata

Bigbroondug said:


> Sounds promising.....


Really, are you sure you're reading the same post?


----------



## xabiaxica

Video update


----------



## kaipa

xabiaxica said:


> Video update


So apparently there are 2 remaing contested points and , we are told, they are complex. Statements like that don't really help as an agreement will always come down to one or two things eventually and those will be the biggest ones and the less likely to be easily sorted. I imagine in this case it will be about the UK refusing to budge over an issue of sovereignty. Given that the Spanish are not going to face any pressure by its own citizens over this ( Spanish nationals in uk can already change their licence or if the UK decided to withdraw this right its not a big problem as most Spanish in UK are young and speak English ( have to for residency!)so it's not a big deal doing UK test. That means it is the UK that has most to lose but their hands will be tied by people like Jacob Rees Mogg who will never sanction anything that looks like diluting Brexit.So my bet is this is not going to happen until the present Brexit government is voted out of power.


----------



## number9

kaipa said:


> I imagine in this case it will be about the UK refusing to budge over an issue of sovereignty. Given that the Spanish are not going to face any pressure by its own citizens over this ( Spanish nationals in uk can already change their licence or if the UK decided to withdraw this right its not a big problem as most Spanish in UK are young and speak English ( have to for residency!)so it's not a big deal doing UK test.


With all due respect, what you imagine is neither here nor there.

I do agree that the UK's negotiating position was weakened by granting continued license swaps for Spanish in the UK, regardless of the situation of British in Spain. I swapped my license but we all know of people who plan to move "soon" and they are the ones hung out to dry. 

I think its time someone pushed a button to level the playing field.


----------



## Overandout

number9 said:


> I think its time someone pushed a button to level the playing field.


Getting the UK back into the EU is going to be a bit more complex than just "pushing a button"...


----------



## Barriej

number9 said:


> With all due respect, what you imagine is neither here nor there.
> 
> I do agree that the UK's negotiating position was weakened by granting continued license swaps for Spanish in the UK, regardless of the situation of British in Spain. I swapped my license but we all know of people who plan to move "soon" and they are the ones hung out to dry.
> 
> I think its time someone pushed a button to level the playing field.


The Uk voted to leave a club, so unless it had or is negotiating 'special rules' for future involvment that no other 3rd country member has, why should the UK get something different? 
It left the union.
I once had a membership to a Gym, I can't just turn up to use the sauna whenever I like now Im no longer a member. <joke> Ive never had a gym membership.... 

Anyone thinking of moving now should be aware that a test will be needed, if they wish to continue driving, just the same as US, Canadian, Chinese, Australian, Indian etc have too.
There are no visa exceptions for Uk citizens so why should there be one for driving?
None of us are that special..

And just because the Uk decided that it was easier to just allow all the EU countries citizen to exchange, rather than to enter into talks individually thats the UKs business. Was done I assume to save paperwork and admin costs..
And just because a lot of the other EU countries did the same is their business not Spains or the EU as driving licences are a country affair not an EU wide one.

Seeing as more Uk citizens live here than in (I think) the rest of the EU combined, it makes me wonder just how much they really want or care about us Brits here.
Oh and at least Spain isn't expecting you to learn Spanish within a year or so to continue with residency like some EU countries...
Although just think of all that extra revenue from the driving schools and the test centres rolling in as extra tax income....


----------



## Barriej

Overandout said:


> Getting the UK back into the EU is going to be a bit more complex than just "pushing a button"...


Unless its a big red one with the words DO NOT PRESS written on it....


----------



## number9

Overandout said:


> Getting the UK back into the EU is going to be a bit more complex than just "pushing a button"...


Okay I'll be clearer. Push a button requiring any Spanish in the UK have the same terms as recent British arrivals to Spain. In short until negotiations complete they would have to take a driving test. Level the playing field.

Like many, I have no desire for the UK to rejoin the EU.


----------



## Relyat

number9 said:


> Okay I'll be clearer. Push a button requiring any Spanish in the UK have the same terms as recent British arrivals to Spain. In short until negotiations complete they would have to take a driving test. Level the playing field.
> 
> Like many, I have no desire for the UK to rejoin the EU.


A bit late for that though.


----------



## number9

It should be an outcome of failing to reach agreement.


----------



## kaipa

Overandout said:


> Getting the UK back into the EU is going to be a bit more complex than just "pushing a button"...


Have a feeling they meant making the Spanish in UK do a test as opposed to being allowed to do a straight swap. However, a level playing field in that case could mean UK expats needing language requirements as is the case in France.


number9 said:


> Okay I'll be clearer. Push a button requiring any Spanish in the UK have the same terms as recent British arrivals to Spain. In short until negotiations complete they would have to take a driving test. Level the playing field.
> 
> Like many, I have no desire for the UK to rejoin the EU.



So you will be equally fine with Spain insisting all persons seeking residency in spain have a suitable level of Spanish because that is what is required in reverse for Spanish applying for residency in UK and maybe they would also like a level playing field when it comes to these things?


----------



## number9

Maybe this is the problem with negotiating UK license exchanges - Hugh Elliot and others are not sharing the obstacles but if the Spanish include non core items in a particular negotiation then a successful outcome is unlikely. We know in the past licenses could be exchanged but now it's seemingly impossible. I suspect the obstacles are political rather than technical.


----------



## Relyat

Immaterial what they are. 
Although I can see that they may be of interest to those affected, knowing still wouldn't help them.


----------



## MataMata

Before Spain joined the EU in 1986 they had a legally binding agreement (treaty if you will) with UK for the exchange of Spanish driving licences for UK. For whatever reason, or reasons, no reciprocal agreement was put in place, quite possibly because nobody ever imagined UK leaving the bloc.

With Spain joining the EU that agreement was rendered moot as it was overridden by the EU directive under which member state driving licences were mutually recognised across the community and freely exchangeable between them. Importantly though it was never recinded or cancelled so reamained in place but dormant.

When UK left the EU licence exchanges under the directive clearly no longer applied and in the case of Spain the earlier agreement was revived and became the default which is how we arrived at the position we are in with Spanish drivers in UK able to drive and exchange their licences and UK having no legal means of depriving them of those rights.


----------



## xabiaxica

Latest update 14/10/2022



> _Driving Licence Negotiations_
> We know that many of you continue to have questions, concerns and frustrations about the ongoing negotiations on driving licence exchange. All you want is to be back on the roads and we want this too. It continues to be a top priority for the UK. Ministers raised the issue again with their Spanish counterparts during our annual UK/Spain “Tertulias” summit last weekend in Oxford and we have continued to make progress on the outstanding points this week. We appreciate you would like to understand exactly what the hold-up is, but as we have said before, there are some details we cannot go into, as that could risk derailing the negotiations – which is the last thing that any of us want.
> We do read all your messages and, whilst the Ambassador isn’t able to reply to every individual, we are in touch with many of the groups representing UK Nationals and we are meeting we are meeting one of the groups specifically lobbying on this issue to discuss their, and your, concerns.
> Lots of you have asked what happens once the final points have been resolved, so we’ve rounded up the most common questions below.
> *What happens once the agreement is final?*
> Once the negotiation teams have agreed the text, it will then go forward for final legal and political approvals. On the Spanish side, this means going through the ‘Consejo de Ministros’ (Spanish Cabinet). On the UK side, it will be approved by relevant Ministers.
> Then it will be published in the BOE (state bulletin) and should come into force the same day. You will then have six months to exchange your UK licence for a Spanish one (without having to take a test) and during that time you will be able to drive using your valid UK licence.
> *Will the agreement only apply to those who were here before the end of 2020 and registered their intent to exchange?*
> No. The agreement will apply to anyone holding a UK licence, whether they were here before the end of 2020 or whether they move here in the future.
> *Will there be enough appointments within that six months?*
> It will be for the Spanish Government to administer the process and ensure the provision of appointments. This is something we have raised throughout negotiations and Spain is conscious of the potential number of UK nationals who may need to exchange during the six-month window.
> We would encourage you to get an appointment as soon as you can and not leave it until the last minute, remembering that you do not have to exchange in the town/region where you are resident if there is greater availability elsewhere.
> *Do I have to complete the exchange process within six months of the agreement coming into effect?*
> No, but you will only be able to drive on your UK licence during this six-month window. After that, you can complete the exchange, but will not be able to drive on your UK licence while you are waiting to do so.
> *My UK licence has expired. Will I still be able to get a Spanish licence without taking a test?*
> The fact that some people’s licences have expired, or are about to, has been taken into account by the negotiating team. Expired licences shall be accepted provided that they were valid at the time that the licence holder entered Spain.
> *I renewed my UK licence with the DVLA when I was already resident in Spain. Can I still exchange it without taking a test?*
> All valid UK licences issued prior to this Agreement entering into force can be exchanged. However, you should not renew your UK licence with the DVLA if you are no longer resident in the UK.
> Once the Agreement is in place, you must not try to renew a UK licence with the UK authorities if you are resident in Spain. If you do so, you will not be able to exchange it for a Spanish one.


----------



## kaipa

That's an encouraging message and seems to indicate that things should be fine for most people. Bear in mind that it needs to be approved by various politicians which might not mean a rubber stamp


----------



## Barriej

From that it does sound like there is some progress, Im wondering if the Uk has agreed to allow Spain the access it needs to the DVLA database completely or just for exchange purposes.
Doubt we will know unless Brit tourists with their own cars get fines through the post.

Cant wait for the gutter press to announce the Uk has got one over on the Spanish thanks to the protests by the thousands of Brits storming the embassy in Madrid..  

The last point should close all the silly threads we have had about residents keeping and renewing their Uk licences once no longer resident in the UK.

To me this seems like the 'official' final word.

*However, you should not renew your UK licence with the DVLA if you are no longer resident in the UK.*


----------



## xabiaxica

Update video



> *UPDATE ON DRIVING LICENCE NEGOTIATIONS*
> We know there are lots of questions and concerns about the ongoing negotiations on driving licence exchange. Please check HM Ambassador Hugh Elliott latest message below.
> In addition to this, we have been made aware of some attempts to scam UK licence holders, with fraudulent offers of attaining a Spanish licence in exchange for cash. Please be alert to these scams and report any suspicious, unsolicited offers to the local authorities.


----------



## kaipa

xabiaxica said:


> Update video



Strange because I thought in the last bulletin they said that an agreement had in effect been agreed and that they were simply waiting for it to pass through the stages of formal ratification - this new one sounds like the previous ones where he talks about progress being made but no deal arrived at!!


----------



## xabiaxica

Twitter, 29/10/2022


----------



## MataMata

My prediction: New Year party hangovers will have faded into dim and distant memory before a resolution emerges.

Lifted this off FB.


*The letter attached, from Parliamentary Under Secretary of State, Katherine Fletcher MP, Department for Transport, seeks to clarify their position on this matter.

[ � October 2022
Thank you for your email of 12 September, including questions from your constituent, ?? about using a UK driving licence in Spain. I am replying as the Minister for Roads and Regions.

I am aware of the challenges that UK driving licence holders living in Spain are facing and would like to assure your constituent that the Government is working hard to resolve this situation as a priority.

Negotiations with Spain have been made more complicated as Spain has required additional elements relating to data sharing, which no other countries have requested in order to conclude an agreement . 

The U.K. is responsible for Gibraltar's external relations and is therefore seeking an agreement which includes UK and Gibraltarian driving licence holders. We have urged the Spanish Government to reinstate the interim measures that would allow UK licences to be recognised in the meantime, but unfortunately this will not happen until an agreement is signed.

Regarding the treatment of Spanish licence holders, the UK continues to recognise valid licences and will exchange licences that have expired or at the request of the holder. This position was taken as a sign of good faith to support negotiations with all EU Member States and to date we have arrangements in place with 24 out of 27 countries.

Please reassure your constituent that we are working hard to come to an agreement with the Spanish Government. Updates on licence exchange arrangements with Spain will be published at govt website
Yours sincerely,
MINISTER FOR ROADS AND REGIONS"*

The underline is mine to highlight the fact that it's not 'goodwill' but due the the existence of an agreement between UK and Spain predating Spain's joining the EU which after Brexit became the the fall back position. I can only surmise that a reciprocal agreement was never put in place as the EU directive provided for exchanges rendering it unnecessary - until now!.


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## dancingspider

*The U.K. is responsible for Gibraltar's external relations and is therefore seeking an agreement which includes UK and Gibraltarian driving licence holders.* 

There you have it then! That is the nub of the issue! 

If the driving licence exchange was just for the UK, then it would be plain sailing and all would be done and dusted by now.

Put Gibraltar in the mix and the Spanish will be chucking their toys out of their pram!

Good luck to anyone expecting this to be resolved anytime soon!


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## xabiaxica




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## MataMata

The Gibraltar element would explain why the Embassy bang on about the negotiations being 'delicate'.


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## dancingspider

MataMata, that is why Brexiteers in Spain, who are hoping for a last minute reprieve, are goosed!

I fell a bit sorry for the expats that didn't vote for brexit.

Anyone expat that did vote for brexit, stick you nose in it!


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## xabiaxica

Latest from the consulate 11/11/2022



> _Driving licence negotiations_
> We wanted to let you know some of what has been happening since the Ambassador’s last video message. Teams on the UK and Spanish side continue to negotiate to try to reach agreement on the final points in the annexes. The UK’s Minister for Europe was in Spain today and raised the driving licence issue with his counterpart in an attempt to get the outstanding points over the line; stressing again the huge impact that the inability to drive is having on people.
> As the ambassador said in his last message, we do not underestimate the difficulties some people are facing. There is only so much that is within the gift of the UK government, but we can only assure you that we continue to push to conclude the negotiations as soon as possible, and that case studies of how this is affecting you have been shared with the Spanish Government. Thank you for your patience.


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## Relyat

xabiaxica said:


> Latest from the consulate 11/11/2022


🥱


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## dancingspider

_



"Driving Licence Negotiations

Click to expand...

_


> We know that many of you continue to have questions, concerns and frustrations about the ongoing negotiations on driving licence exchange. All you want is to be back on the roads and we want this too. It continues to be a top priority for the UK. Ministers raised the issue again with their Spanish counterparts during our annual UK/Spain “Tertulias” summit last weekend in Oxford and we have continued to make progress on the outstanding points this week. We appreciate you would like to understand exactly what the hold-up is, but as we have said before, there are some details we cannot go into, as that could risk derailing the negotiations – which is the last thing that any of us want.
> We do read all your messages and, whilst the Ambassador isn’t able to reply to every individual, we are in touch with many of the groups representing UK Nationals and we are meeting we are meeting one of the groups specifically lobbying on this issue to discuss their, and your, concerns.
> Lots of you have asked what happens once the final points have been resolved, so we’ve rounded up the most common questions below."



Utterly pathetic statement from the Embassy!

These guys are very clearly clowns!

Better to say nothing than to issue this nonsense!

The Spanish are very clearly calling the shots.


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## timwip

dancingspider said:


> The Spanish are very clearly calling the shots.


Of course the Spanish are calling the shots. Thinking otherwise would be delusional. The UK left the EU. As a result, they lost the benefits of being a member. It is up to Spain to decide if they are going to give any special consideration to the UK.


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## dancingspider

There are probably at least two issues:

Trying to extend the agreement to cover Gibraltar also
Access to UK databases by Spanish government


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## 1kaipa

Judging by the time elapsed and the obvious fact that there is information that isn't being shared publicly it seems highly likely that this all boils down to a political issue not a legal one.


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## dancingspider

I bet the UK embassy managed to squeeze a few extensions out of the Spanish embassy, but in the end the Spanish figured out the UK was just stringing them along.

Allowing the deadline to pass when UK licence holders could no longer drive, was the Spanish calling the bluff of the British embassy.

Now all those drivers are stuck in limbo, when 

At a guess, I bet we are at an impasse, where neither side will budge.

All we get are wishy-washy press releases...

What we need to know are, what the what are the issues and when they will be sorted by, like giving us a date when all these wonderful teams they refer to will finally sort this out!


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## Tim Mariner

What I find most annoying about this is the stream of weekly or fortnightly assurances from the Ambassador that an agreement is imminent, with only a couple of small details remaining to be resolved. This has been going on for more than six months, and *has clearly been untrue*. It has had real adverse consequences - people have put off the effort and expense of taking the Spanish test on the basis of official assurances of an imminent deal.

Either the Ambassador wants to delude us, or he is deluded himself. If the sticking-point is indeed Gibraltar, nobody could have honestly believed that this was a minor or technical detail that could soon be resolved.

What we need now, and are entitled to, is an *honest *statement of the situation.


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## xabiaxica

video update - *NEARLY THERE! *



> Here is our latest update on the driving licence negotiations with information about a significant step forward: we have now reached agreement on the outstanding two points. Please check out the video for more detail and next steps.


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## Man le-mans

The deal is done just the paperwork now


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## MataMata

'Just the paperwork', that's funny.

Gotta' love an optimist though.


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## Man le-mans

MataMata said:


> 'Just the paperwork', that's funny.
> 
> Gotta' love an optimist though.



So they have reached an agreement.??

Once the legal checks are done and it’s approval it will be in place.


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## dancingspider

British driving licences in Spain: The ongoing Brexit debate

See the link for more info., but I would say it sounds positive and he is speaking of weeks, not months.

However, we all know about Spanish bureaucracy....


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## Man le-mans

That’s interesting that many people was trying to sort it before the time was up, but was unable to due to the massive back log.
It sounds very positive tho and as you say hopefully weeks rather than months.
it wouldn’t surprise me if they say to use your Uk license until it’s sorted due to the backlog like somebody else said


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## dancingspider

Well to me it is obvious what happened..!

The British Consulate in Madrid was following our thread and following our pessimistic analysis, he couldn´t handle the negative press and got his skates on and sorted it out.


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## Man le-mans

dancingspider said:


> Well to me it is obvious what happened..!
> 
> The British Consulate in Madrid was following our thread and following our pessimistic analysis, he couldn´t handle the negative press and got his skates on and sorted it out.


I like your thinking


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## xabiaxica

Weekly update



> _Driving licence exchange_
> Following the ambassador’s last message, both the legal and political approvals are underway. We can’t yet provide a date when the process will be complete, but once we have further information we will let you know. In the meantime, here are provisional answers to some of the questions you have asked about what we expect to happen next.
> *What happens after the agreement is published in the BOE?*
> Once the Agreement is finalised and published in the BOE (Spanish state bulletin) you will be able to drive for six months on your valid UK licence, during which time you will need to exchange it for a Spanish one to be able to continue driving. After that six months, you will no longer be able to drive on your UK licence, but will be able to continue to exchange it for a Spanish one. When we say UK licence we mean any valid licence issued by the DVLA (Great Britain licensing authority), DVA (Northern Ireland licensing authority) or Gibraltar licensing authority.
> *I understand I have to take a psicotecnico test (psychophysical aptitude test). What does that involve?*
> The psicotecnico test is a short test to check your eyesight and reactions. You may also have a brief interview with a doctor. You will need a certificate showing you have passed the test in order to exchange your licence. It is valid for three months. There are a wide range of providers and you can find the official list at: https://www.dgt.es/.../centros-reconocimiento-conductores/
> *Will UK driving licences as a result of an exchange of a licence obtained by a test in a third country be exchanged? (For example, I took my driving test in Australia and converted my Australian licence to a UK one when I lived there)*
> You should be able to exchange a UK licence obtained as a result of exchange with a third country as long as Spain also has a driving licence exchange agreement with that country. In the example, Spain does not have an exchange agreement with Australia, so you would not be able to exchange it if your licence was originally granted there.
> *What types of licences can be exchanged?*
> You can exchange any valid UK car (category B) licence and we expect that many other licence categories can be exchanged too, including mopeds and motorcycles. Further details of all categories will be available when the agreement is published.


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## snikpoh

Remember everyone, this is an extension for another 6 months only!


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## xabiaxica

> _Driving licence exchange_
> This is a brief update on progress towards driving licence exchange coming into force and some more information on what to expect once that happens.
> The UK’s legal checks have now been completed and a final version is with Spain for agreement on their side. When the British Foreign Secretary James Cleverly and Spanish Foreign Minister Albares met this week, they both agreed that we are close to completing this process. We will update again before the Christmas break and work with Spain will continue between Christmas and New Year.
> In the meantime, here are provisional answers to some more of the questions you have been asking us:
> *My UK licence has expired. Will I be able to exchange it without taking a test?*
> Yes. The text includes provision for expired licences to be accepted for exchange, provided they were valid at the time you began living in Spain.
> *Do I have to give up my UK licence? Why can’t I keep both?*
> Once an exchange agreement is in force, you can drive in Spain on your UK licence for the first six months of living here, during which time you must exchange it for a Spanish licence. It is not possible to hold licences issued by the UK and Spain at the same time. If you return to live in the UK at any point, you will be able to exchange your Spanish licence for a UK one without taking a test.
> *I’m in my 80s/90s. Is there any age restriction on who can exchange their licence?*
> There is no age restriction and your driving licence remains valid until it expires. However, in general, once you reach 65, your licence will only be issued for five years, rather than 10. Validity periods are different for driving different categories of vehicles. You can find more information at:
> https://sede.dgt.gob.es/.../renovacion.../index.shtml


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## MataMata

"Do I have to give up my UK licence? Why can’t I keep both?" 

No, that's what 'exchange' means, if you want to keep your UK licence (can't think why) then you would have to take a Spanish test.

You'd have to give it up eventually either when it expired or when you reached 70 so why bother?


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## Blondebob2

A message from HMA Hugh Elliott on driving licence exchange | HMA Hugh Elliott sends a message to those currently unable to drive in Spain on their UK licence | By Brits in Spain | Facebook


2.2K views, 28 likes, 0 loves, 63 comments, 77 shares, Facebook Watch Videos from Brits in Spain: HMA Hugh Elliott sends a message to those currently unable to drive in Spain on their UK licence




www.facebook.com


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## 1kaipa

Blondebob2 said:


> A message from HMA Hugh Elliott on driving licence exchange | HMA Hugh Elliott sends a message to those currently unable to drive in Spain on their UK licence | By Brits in Spain | Facebook
> 
> 
> 2.2K views, 28 likes, 0 loves, 63 comments, 77 shares, Facebook Watch Videos from Brits in Spain: HMA Hugh Elliott sends a message to those currently unable to drive in Spain on their UK licence
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.facebook.com


Well providing that Vox don't manage to get their call for vote of no confidence in Sanchez before new year it stands a chance of being in place by January but given the seriousness of the suspension of the TC anything could happen in spain now and PP definitely smell a chance!!


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## Tim Mariner

I'll believe this when I see it, not before.

We seem to have been hearing this 'just a few technical points' and 'a deal is imminent' for many (eight?) months now. That doesn't do much for credibility.

People may have decided not to take the Spanish test on the grounds that they might as well wait a week or two if that's all it's going to be. Incidentally, why make announcements on FB, doesn't the embassy have its own site?


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## dancingspider

Well, not that it matters to me, as I have a Spanish licence anyway, but I would be optimistic after watching that, that there is 'something in the pipeline'.

But then we get into the realm of how long is a piece of string...


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## xabiaxica

Tim Mariner said:


> I'll believe this when I see it, not before.
> 
> We seem to have been hearing this 'just a few technical points' and 'a deal is imminent' for many (eight?) months now. That doesn't do much for credibility.
> 
> People may have decided not to take the Spanish test on the grounds that they might as well wait a week or two if that's all it's going to be. Incidentally, why make announcements on FB, doesn't the embassy have its own site?


The deal is done. It needs parliamentary approval in both countries, but last week he stated that there were no more 'technical points' to be ironed out. 


Announcements aren't usually only on FB. The Consulate uses various different social media. They appear to have discovered that it's the way to reach more people at once.


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## Tim Mariner

xabiaxica said:


> The deal is done. It needs parliamentary approval in both countries, but last week he stated that there were no more 'technical points' to be ironed out.
> 
> 
> Announcements aren't usually only on FB. The Consulate uses various different social media. They appear to have discovered that it's the way to reach more people at once.


Thanks. But do we _know _that the deal is done? My problem is that we've heard this, or something very like it, on a weekly or fortnightly basis for much of this year. You will understand, I hope, my caution on such statements with this track-record.


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## xabiaxica

Tim Mariner said:


> Thanks. But do we _know _that the deal is done? My problem is that we've heard this, or something very like it, on a weekly or fortnightly basis for much of this year. You will understand, I hope, my caution on such statements with this track-record.


He has never before said that the deal was done.


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## 1kaipa

The problem is that these things can take time to pass through parliament and presumably that is why he seems a bit morose. Given the problems with the parliament at the moment things I imagine nothing much is happening


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