# Marriage not Recognised Under UK Law - PLEASE HELP



## Phantasmo (Jan 15, 2013)

*Marriage Question for Spouse Visa*

Hi guys, 

I became married in Feb 2013 in Japan to my wife and we held a ceremony to celebrate in March 2013 in Japan. 

I have a quick question regarding this - I was not actually in Japan in person when we became officially married and was in the UK. I know this may seem strange but in Japan you can be entered onto the family register and become officially married with one of the parties not being there in person! 

I had to get a certificate of no impediment from the UK, my birth certificate and a certified copy of my passport and then my wife sent me the Japanese documents to complete and sign. I then sent the documents and then all the above proof off to my wife. She took it to the local town hall and completed the entrance onto the family register with both her parents as witness thus completing the marriage. 

I then flew out to Japan in March to with my family for our wedding ceremony.

In my support letter and my wife's letter we have put the date of marriage and then the date of the ceremony and stated that I flew out to Japan for the ceremony in March.

My question is:

Will the ECO query how we became married in Japan on February 2013 if I was still in England, OR, as we have the official documents proving our marriage is official and is legally recognised in Japan will they not care about how we became married and only care that we are in fact officially married in Japan?

We are obviously sending the official and original copies of the marriage certificate and family register along with copies translated by an official translator.

Thanks and hope this made sense.


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## nyclon (Apr 3, 2011)

You need to find out whether it's legally recognised in the UK.


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## Phantasmo (Jan 15, 2013)

nyclon said:


> You need to find out whether it's legally recognised in the UK.


It should be, we checked before we got married if this was okay under Japanese law and and we were informed that the local councils in Japan state the process to get married and all can differ somewhat on what proof they need etc. We rang the Embassy of Japan before we got married as well to confirm that getting married this way was okay and they said it was fine.

https://www.gov.uk/marriage-abroad/y/japan/uk/uk_england/partner_local/opposite_sex

The above UK government website states "Your marriage or civil partnership should be recognised in the UK if you follow the correct process according to local law" which we did. It also states that we can deposit our Japanese marriage certificate at the General Register Office so should be recognised.


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## Phantasmo (Jan 15, 2013)

nyclon said:


> You need to find out whether it's legally recognised in the UK.


If it turns out this is not legally recognised under UK law what can we do to rectify this?


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## nyclon (Apr 3, 2011)

Phantasmo said:


> It should be, we checked before we got married if this was okay under Japanese law and and we were informed that the local councils in Japan state the process to get married and all can differ somewhat on what proof they need etc. We rang the Embassy of Japan before we got married as well to confirm that getting married this way was okay and they said it was fine.
> 
> https://www.gov.uk/marriage-abroad/y/japan/uk/uk_england/partner_local/opposite_sex
> 
> The above UK government website states "Your marriage or civil partnership should be recognised in the UK if you follow the correct process according to local law" which we did. It also states that we can deposit our Japanese marriage certificate at the General Register Office so should be recognised.


I honestly don't know however the way I understand it that depositing your marriage certificate is simply for safekeeping and to make it easy to obtain copies.

If the UK Embassy in Japan said it's recognised than it should be fine but again I don't know the answer. You need to be absolutely certain that it recognised in the UK as a legal marriage.


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## nyclon (Apr 3, 2011)

Are you in Japan? Can you get married at the UK Embassy?


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## Phantasmo (Jan 15, 2013)

nyclon said:


> Are you in Japan? Can you get married at the UK Embassy?


I am in the UK. 

We are planning to hand this all in in the next week but now reading through things it seems that as I was domiciled in the UK at the time that it is not recognised under UK law. 

I can't believe this...I feel utterly distraught. 

If i was to fly out to the UK embassy and get married there would this rectify the situation?


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## Phantasmo (Jan 15, 2013)

So it looks like our marriage is in fact not recognised under UK law as I was not domiciled in Japan at the time. 

I am devastated and have still got to tell my wife. I can't believe that we thought this was all okay and it is only now that we have realised it isn't.

I am trying to work out what on Earth we could do in this situation.

Looking at the citizen advice website here:

Citizens Advice - Getting married

It states the following:

*Marriages by proxy*

_A marriage by proxy is one where one or both partners are not physically present at the ceremony. Marriages taking place under United Kingdom law are not valid if they are by proxy. However, United Kingdom law may in some circumstances consider a proxy marriage to be valid if both of the partners are ‘domiciled’ in a country which recognises marriages by proxy. The concept of ‘domicile’ is very complicated. If you need to know about the validity of a marriage by proxy you will need to seek specialist legal advice._

...and then

*Making a marriage legally valid*

_If you have been married in a way that is not recognised as valid in the United Kingdom, the marriage can take place again according to United Kingdom law provided that both you and your partner meet the requirements described earlier._

Do you think it would therefore be possible to instead of applying for a spouse visa to apply for a fiance visa and to remarry in the UK?


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## nyclon (Apr 3, 2011)

If your marriage isn't legally recognised in the UK you should be able to apply for a fiancé visa instead and then marry in the UK. You'll need to show proof that you've made at least enquiries with the register. Keep in mind that the CAB are not immigration specialists.


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## Phantasmo (Jan 15, 2013)

nyclon said:


> If your marriage isn't legally recognised in the UK you should be able to apply for a fiancé visa instead and then marry in the UK. You'll need to show proof that you've made at least enquiries with the register. Keep in mind that the CAB are not immigration specialists.


I think I will need to contact an immigration solicitor to discuss this further as I imagine it will be difficult to explain to the ECO why my wifes name has been changed to mine and why when we are already married under Japanese law, why we would want to apply for a fiance visa.


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## Phantasmo (Jan 15, 2013)

I am now not so sure if it is legal or not. 

All the documentation I can find is in regards to proxy and telephone marriages with ceremonies and vows exchanged.

In Japan this is very different and there is no ceremony held - it is simply filling in paperwork and handing it in at the Town Hall with some witnesses present.

Furthermore, I actually signed and completed all the paperwork myself and this was the paperwork that was handed over so there was no proxy standing in for me as such...I just feel lost at this point in time.

I spoke to VFS Japan and they seemed to believe there was no issue as long as the marriage was successful in Japan and we had the relevant documents. I am aware that they are not immigration advisors themselves however.

I don't suppose anyone has information regarding this?


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## Phantasmo (Jan 15, 2013)

Hello everyone, 

I have now found this,

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/s...nstructions/nisec2gensec/marriage?view=Binary

Looking at part 2 does this mean I do meet the requirements?


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## Phantasmo (Jan 15, 2013)

Looking again now all the information I can find seems to be suggesting that Japanese marriage is recognised in the UK as long as you satisfied the requirements of the local Japanese law. 

Further to this, Japan marriages are unlike any other country I know of. There is no ceremony and it is literally just a paper filling exercise and then handing into the Town Hall to be processed, it is literally the same process as registering a car in your name! 

There are no formal vows taken, no need for a ceremony to be held and no need for both parties to be present, it is literally completing some paperwork which I did myself and then sent with suitable proof to Japan - thus satisfying the Japanese law. 

I believe that it does therefore not classed as a proxy marriage (no one was needed to take my place at a ceremony) or a telephone marriage (no need to say vows).

After a lengthy discussion with my partner, lVFS stating they believe it is fine, and lots of looking at information on line trying to make head or tails of it all I think we may well still apply. 

If we do and for whatever reason we are wrong with the information we have found and the marriage is classified as unlawful, what is the worst that could happen in this circumstance? Would her visa be rejected and then we would need to re-apply under a different category/address the issue? She would not be banned from applying again would she as we are being open and honest in our application and providing all required documents?

Thanks.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

In Japan, legal marriage is concluded when a couple lodge an application for their marriage details to be officially entered (konin todoke). Everything is done on paper, and no actual marriage ceremony is required. In short, you tell the local municipality that you and your partner wish to be married and ask them to accept your application. Once it's done, you are legally married. And the application, provided it's signed (or has a family seal on) by the party concerned, can be submitted by either. So there is no verbal declaration of consent, exchange of vows or official pronouncing you are husband and wife. Of course most people have a ceremony as well, usually Shinto or Christian, but that has no official significance.

Who told you your Japanese marriage isn't recognised in UK? Japanese marriage is recognised over here without having to go through any further procedure. It isn't proxy marriage as such. Since you two have fully completed the marriage procedure under the Japanese law and are legally married in Japan, it's automatically recognised in UK. The fact you were in UK when the konin todoke was submitted is immaterial.
If in doubt, have a word with the Japanese Embassy in London. They accept phone enquiries and are very helpful.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Proxy marriage is when a ceremony is required for legal marriage, one of the parties isn't present but someone else stands in their place. Since Japanese marriage doesn't involve a ceremony - just paper application, what you did wasn't proxy marriage.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

I have now merged the two threads and tidied up!
I am 100% certain your marriage is valid in UK, so don't worry.
Just apply for spouse visa in the normal way.


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## Phantasmo (Jan 15, 2013)

Joppa said:


> I have now merged the two threads and tidied up!
> I am 100% certain your marriage is valid in UK, so don't worry.
> Just apply for spouse visa in the normal way.


Oh my gosh Joppa...thank you SO MUCH! I have literally had half an hours sleep since thinking this last night from 20:00 onwards! 

Hontou ni domo arigatou gozaimasu! Boku to tsuma wa totemo shinpai shima****a! Really, thank you so much! Me and my wife were worrying so much!

In that case then I will not need to add any notes explaining I was out of the country and can just apply as normal providing all evidence?

P.S. Thanks for tidying up the posts and merging the two topics - apologies again for the double post.


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## 0sman (May 4, 2013)

If the UKBA recognised my pakistani marriage certificate which was riddled with spelling mistakes and looked like it was purchased from a dirty market stall then of course they will recognise a japanese one.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Mou shimpai shinaide, eiju sasho moshikomi no seiko wo inotteimasuyo.
No more worries, pray for success of your settlement visa application.


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## Phantasmo (Jan 15, 2013)

Joppa said:


> Mou shimpai shinaide, eiju sasho moshikomi no seiko wo inotteimasuyo.
> No more worries, pray for success of your settlement visa application.


Thanks Joppa. Just to confirm there will be no need therefore for me to put a note in the application regarding me not being in the country at the time then?

Thanks.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

No. Just enclose the marriage certificate and English translation.


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## Nikkub (Feb 6, 2014)

Hi Phantasmo, may I ask if your application was successful? I'm going through an identical situation and would really like to know if I need to add anything to my wife's visa application before submitting....

Thanks


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Yes, he was. Are you applying in Japan too?


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## Nikkub (Feb 6, 2014)

Joppa said:


> Yes, he was. Are you applying in Japan too?


Hi Joppa,

That is great to hear, congratulations Phantasmo!

I am in a very similar situation; I am British and my wife is Japanese, we married in 2013 with the plan for her to move over to the UK in Spring of this year. Once my we are settled we have planned to have our marriage ceremony in June 2015. Also our marriage has been deposited in the GRO.

It didn't occur to me that there might be an issue with this marriage process (as this method of getting married is the norm in Japan) until I stumbled upon a paragraph stating that 'marriage in proxy' is not legally recognized in the UK??

We have compiled all the necessary supporting documents and I feel confident that all necessary boxes have been ticked, however the prospect of being rejected on the basis of our marriage not being recognized does fill me fear...


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

No. Japanese marriage procedure (submitting kon-in-todoke at city/town/ward office) is entirely legal and recognised in UK and isn't regarded as marriage by proxy. So all you need is the original kon-in-todoke-juryosho (marriage application acceptance form), professionally translated.


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