# Relocating back to Germany



## Zeno (Mar 24, 2017)

I am a German citizen who has been living and working in Thailand for the past 10 years. The company I have been working for unexpectedly shut down, and I am now having difficulty finding a new job. 

I don’t know what to do now, and I am considering going to Germany to go look for work. I cannot read or write German, but I can speak the language. I am willing to work at Mc Donalds if needed. 

I also have a Thai wife and a 1 year old baby. 

I do not have any savings, and I am worried for the future of my family. 

I have read that if I have never worked in Germany I would not be able to qualify for any benefits, does this mean me and my family are going to have to live on the street? Is there any help available for me?


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## Nononymous (Jul 12, 2011)

You may get better advice soon when an actual German citizen replies.

I think it's correct that if you haven't been working in Germany, you won't be entitled to any unemployment benefits. I'm not sure what your status would be regarding health insurance.

You are definitely in a difficult situation without savings. Relocating a family to Germany is not a cheap undertaking. To set up an apartment typically requires three months' rent as a deposit, plus they take "unfurnished" to a very extreme degree.

I have no idea what the visa requirements would be for your wife and child to enter Germany, but presumably as you are a German citizen they are fully entitled to join you (that would not be the case in the UK, where you'd need to meet a substantial minimum income standard to prove that you could support them). 

I suppose the only thing you can do is throw yourself on the mercy of the local Sozialamt and see what sort of welfare benefits are available. It would be a ****ty existence, but presumably you'd not be allowed to starve or freeze.


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## ALKB (Jan 20, 2012)

Zeno said:


> I am a German citizen who has been living and working in Thailand for the past 10 years. The company I have been working for unexpectedly shut down, and I am now having difficulty finding a new job.
> 
> I don’t know what to do now, and I am considering going to Germany to go look for work. I cannot read or write German, but I can speak the language. I am willing to work at Mc Donalds if needed.
> 
> ...


Have you ever lived in Germany?

You would not be entitled to contribution-based benefits (as you have not contributed so far) but as a German citizen you would be entitled to income-based benefits such as social security, housing benefit, Kinderzuchlag, etc. and other payments such as Kindergeld (child benefit). 

You would also probably be eligible for an integration course (in general, German nationals who have never lived in Germany are eligible), which could help with the reading/writing issue but I understand that there are long wait lists for places in the current situation.

Do you have family in Germany whom you could stay with for a while?

The hardest bit will probably be to relocate, find a place to stay and adapt to life in general, the culture, etc. Setting up a new life without saving will be a major challenge.

Also, spouses of German nationals have to show basic German language skills for the family visa, and you would have to show that you have adequate accommodation for your family and how you plan to cover your living expenses.


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## Nononymous (Jul 12, 2011)

I probably overstated the case when I said you'd be "fully entitled" to bring your family to Germany. I expect their are conditions to their obtaining a visa, such as proving your ability to support them. Talk to the embassy, they'd be the ones issuing a visa.

EU law seems to be less restrictive in this regard than national immigration laws. As a German citizen you'd be subject to German law. It might be slightly easier to move somewhere outside of Germany if you could find work, which you'd have to because you'd likely not be entitled to any welfare assistance as a non-citizen.


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## Zeno (Mar 24, 2017)

I lived in Germany the first 8 years of my life. I do have a German father, but he is not in the picture any longer. 

I have already spoken with the German consulate in Thailand, and they informed me that my wife doesn't need to know the German language because we have a child together. They said the visa would not be an issue. 

I guess I would be able to rent a hotel room for a couple of weeks with some money I can get my hands on, but what would happen after that? How long would it take for me to get the assistance, and would anyone know how much this would come out to on a monthly basis?

Moving to another part of the EU I did not consider. I would have thought by me being a German citizen it would be easier for me to go back to Germany instead of somewhere else within the EU. 

With all the immigrants that are comming from Syria, are you all saying Germany would be willing to help them out before they help out of their own citizens?


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## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

Moving to another EU country is an option - but it's not necessarily "easier" in your case.

If you were to move to another EU country, your wife and family would be entitled to join you, as long as they entered the country legally (on a short-stay/tourist visa). However, before they could get the residence permit they need to be able to stay, you would have to be established in the country - i.e. have a place to live and a job or other means of supporting yourself and them. That can easily take more than the 3 months they'd have on a tourist or Schengen visa. (We've had lots of folks through the forums here who have been tripped up by that "little" technicality.)

When you return to your country of nationality, you are subject to their immigration laws regarding your spouse and family members. Usually means you need to get a "spouse visa" before they can enter the country with you. And some countries require a certain level of support/income and/or housing arrangements for family members as part of the visa process. (I don't know what requirements Germany may have for non-EU family members of a German citizen.)

Government benefits require that you establish your residence (however defined in the law) and/or the basis for a claim of refugee or asylum seeker status. So basically you're in somewhat the same position as the refugees in Germany on that score. Just that, absent some basis for seeing asylum, residence can be a bit trickier to establish, or at least take a bit longer.
Cheers,
Bev


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## Zeno (Mar 24, 2017)

Thanks everyone. What would you all suggest if I were to leave on my own, and leave my family behind. Would it be best for me to go to Germany or to another EU country? I assume I will have to sleep on the streets or hopefully find a shelter which will take me in. Will the social welfare help of another country in the EU be better than in Germany. When would the social benifits kick in, and would it not be possible to get a job at say McDonald's from one day to another?


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## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

Given that you have been living in Thailand and have a Thai wife (and child, I would assume), you might actually be better off staying where you are - assuming there is any sort of social welfare system or "safety net" in Thailand that you have presumably been paying into these last few years.

As things go these days, there aren't all that many social benefits in any European country that you get simply for being a citizen there - most depend on your establishing residence and/or having paid into the social insurance system for some period of time in the immediate past. In general, going to any other EU country you'll be considered a "visitor" or "tourist" unless you have some financial resources and/or a place to live. Due to the labor laws in the EU, McDonalds doesn't usually hire folks off the streets - there are things like having to have the appropriate papers (i.e. in Germany, registration of your residence with the local town hall, a Steuerkarte, bank account and whatever else).
Cheers,
Bev


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## ALKB (Jan 20, 2012)

Zeno said:


> Thanks everyone. What would you all suggest if I were to leave on my own, and leave my family behind. Would it be best for me to go to Germany or to another EU country? I assume I will have to sleep on the streets or hopefully find a shelter which will take me in. Will the social welfare help of another country in the EU be better than in Germany. When would the social benifits kick in, and would it not be possible to get a job at say McDonald's from one day to another?


If you can manage to get enough money together to rent a place (pay a deposit, etc.) then moving together may be easier. If you are on severely limited funds then moving on your own and finding a cheap flat share or similar until you found your feet may be easier.

To get welfare assistance in Germany, you have to be registered and approach the local authorities of that municipality. Depending on where you are and how busy they are, getting any actual money can take a month or two or longer. If you are destitute, you can ask them for emergency assistance which will be deducted from the regular payments later on.

If you move to another EU country, then indeed you are not eligible for any kind of benefits until you start working in that country.

Depending on what your skill set is, you may want to consider Malta, Ireland or Cyprus for the English language factor.

Are you degree-educated or otherwise formally qualified? Germany loves formal qualifications. If you are looking to get such a qualification, then Germany could be a good fit. The way things work doesn't earn you big money fast but people get support in getting qualifications and if you stick with it could be great in the long term.

As for Syrian refugees, integration courses are severely oversubscribed because the migration crisis came as a shock to the system (didn't have a few hundred thousand vacant course places sitting around just in case) and refugees also often wait a long time for any kind of course. Germans usually don't need to be taught the language, culture and law of the land. Also, unless you want to stay on a cot in a gym hall or some sort of container village, you really don't want to trade places with any of them.


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## Zeno (Mar 24, 2017)

I will receive a small severance from my employer, but this certainly isn't going to last. At this time it is extremly difficult for me to find a job because of my age. I am 45 years old, and most employers will not even take a second look at my resume. I have over 20+ years experience in various fields, but do not hold a degree.

I would love to take my family with me, but I can see this might not be so easy. Bev mentioned getting a registration of residence with the local town hall, a Steuerkarte, and bank account. Can I do this in one day? All I have is my passport, and I do not have any health insurance either. If I end up in a shelter once I arrive, would it be possible to register this as my residence? Are there any Germans staying in the camps mentioned? 

Staying in Thailand is not an option, even being married they require proof of income on a montly basis which I will not be able to show.


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## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

It's not possible to the registration process with all it involves in a single day - count on several weeks, and that's with being able to find an apartment or other place to live.

Do you have a second nationality? Say, your mother's nationality? Or perhaps you'd have better luck looking into one of the other places you lived before you got to Thailand. Can your wife perhaps find a job - at least to get you through for a bit?

I just don't think you're going to be able to pick up on benefits in Germany (or anywhere in Europe, for that matter) based solely on having German nationality. Do you have any family or friend ties anywhere else?
Cheers,
Bev


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## Zeno (Mar 24, 2017)

I have a Mexican passport as well, but going back there is out of the question. My wife does work, but even with her job Thai immigration requires me to show some income on a monthy basis. Without a job I won't be able to stay here.


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## ALKB (Jan 20, 2012)

Zeno said:


> I will receive a small severance from my employer, but this certainly isn't going to last. At this time it is extremly difficult for me to find a job because of my age. I am 45 years old, and most employers will not even take a second look at my resume. I have over 20+ years experience in various fields, but do not hold a degree.
> 
> I would love to take my family with me, but I can see this might not be so easy. Bev mentioned getting a registration of residence with the local town hall, a Steuerkarte, and bank account. Can I do this in one day? All I have is my passport, and I do not have any health insurance either. If I end up in a shelter once I arrive, would it be possible to register this as my residence? Are there any Germans staying in the camps mentioned?
> 
> Staying in Thailand is not an option, even being married they require proof of income on a montly basis which I will not be able to show.



Okay, this is most alarming. When do you need to leave the country?

In general, you do have the right to live in Germany and receive non-contribution based benefits. 

Becoming intentionally homeless in Germany is a horrible idea. I have no idea whether you could use a shelter address to register your residence. I have no idea how being homeless in Germany works.

You *could* get yourself a room in a flat share, register (make an appointment online or show up at dawn to wait for a number - processes vary from municipality to municipality). You get a registration certificate right away. You also need to apply for a German ID card if you don't have one already.

Your tax ID will be posted to your registered address after a few days/weeks at the latest. There are no tax cards anymore.

You can use your registration certificate to open a bank account ( I use postbank as they are absolutely everywhere and open on Saturdays, etc.).

In theory, you could then show up at the local social security office/JobCenter and say: I am German, I have been living in Thailand, lost my job and had to leave the country and am basically homeless now/renting a temporary room.

I do not know what would then happen.

The normal procedure in Berlin would be to take your details and give you an appointment (days or weeks in the future) and a list of documents to bring.

At the appointment you will be interviewed, given the forms to fill, given another list of documents to bring and an appointment to finally actually submit your application.

At that appointment you will meet your case worker who will assess your situation - mostly from a job market point of view - and will discuss anything you will be required to do in order to receive benefits while trying to find work, e.g. language courses, a certain number of job applications per month and proof therof.

Without qualifications, no written German and at 45 years of age, I think it would be likely for you to spend some time in language courses or similar, then, after 6 months or so, your case worker will probably ask you to think about getting a qualification (which is usually paid by the JobCenter, not all courses qualify for public funding). All of course unless you meanwhile find a job.

How is your family going to survive in Thailand in the meantime?

If you really go ahead with this, make sure you have some sort of travel health insurance until you eiterh find a job or the JobCenter picks up the tab.

Don't underestimate the profound culture shock you will experience.


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## Zeno (Mar 24, 2017)

Thanks for your reply ALKB and BEV. I am now looking for a job here in Thailand, but with the job market being extremly competitive I doubt anything will come up. It is possible for me to stay in Thailand on a short time basis, but I would need to make visa runs out of the country every 4-5 months. This can get extremly expensive. I cannot just sit here waiting for a job to come up, I need to do something before it's too late. Every month I stay here I will be short almost 1500 euros. My family will go back to the countryside where they will be safe until I can get things together. The separation will be devastating, but I think I really don't have choice anymore.


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## Nononymous (Jul 12, 2011)

I would think very hard about where to attempt this in Germany. You want somewhere with available housing, lots of work for someone with no qualifications, and government services that are not overwhelmed. I'm not sure where that is, but it's definitely not Berlin.


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## ALKB (Jan 20, 2012)

Zeno said:


> Thanks for your reply ALKB and BEV. I am now looking for a job here in Thailand, but with the job market being extremly competitive I doubt anything will come up. It is possible for me to stay in Thailand on a short time basis, but I would need to make visa runs out of the country every 4-5 months. This can get extremly expensive. I cannot just sit here waiting for a job to come up, I need to do something before it's too late. Every month I stay here I will be short almost 1500 euros. My family will go back to the countryside where they will be safe until I can get things together. The separation will be devastating, but I think I really don't have choice anymore.


A word of caution: once you are in the welfare system as a single person (your family not physically being in Germany), you are only eligible for help with rent for a one-person-sized accommodation.

This, plus being in receipt of benefits may make it difficult to show adequate accommodation and income for a family visa, which usually takes several months to issue at the best of times. 

Please note that I in no way, shape or form suggest to become homeless with a toddler in tow!

You are the only one who can realistically say what's possible on your budget but talk about living in homeless shelters is ringing all sorts of alarm bells - this move could well spell disaster for you!

I suggest you contact the Raphaelswerk, a NGO that supports both Germans who want to move away from Germany as well as Germans returning from abroad. They are professionals who deal with your situation often and are better equipped to give adequate advice than most people on this forum:

https://www.raphaelswerk.de/wirberaten/deutscherueckkehrer/deutscherueckkehrer


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## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

Not to add to your concerns, but finding a new job after the age of 40 or 45 can be extremely difficult anywhere in Europe these days. It's just a random thought - but does your Mexican passport give you any advantages in Spain by any chance? Unemployment in Spain is pretty high, but if you have a working knowledge of Spanish, plus English and German, there might be some opportunities there. For that matter, if you've got those three languages, you'd do well to emphasize them for job hunting in Germany. There is evidently quite a move on for young people from Spain to find jobs in Germany - if you could do interpretation or some sort of liaison function with young Spaniards coming to Germany, it could be a way to find your niche.
Cheers,
Bev


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