# Taxation



## clantry (May 26, 2007)

Hi, My husband has been offered a contract in jburg to start on the 1st of september. It does not state anything abot the tax rate there. Although it does mention that you have to have an accountant to deal with all of these matters once you start employment. As thay have not offered any information about the tax rate, I was wondering if anyone could tell me what it is, as they are waiting for a signed agreement back from us. We are hesitant to sign at this stage as Like I said before, we still are unaware of what the outgoings will be (tax) Any information would be appreciated. Thanks. Cheryl.


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## synthia (Apr 18, 2007)

I don't know what the rate is, and I don't know where you are from, but if you are American you will get a kick out of the complaints about the complexity of their taxes.


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## clantry (May 26, 2007)

*taxation*

Hi Synthia, With all due respect, I am not sure why, where we are from, has anything at all to do with the question of how much the tax rate is in South Africa????? But just incase, we are from Australia.


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## synthia (Apr 18, 2007)

Not the rate, but they complained so much about how complicated it was, and to an American, the forms and the rules were so simple it was funny. Someone told me, "The tax forms are four pages long!" We get inch-thick packets in the mail, and they aren't even complete. You can need even more forms. So if you aren't American with our convolted tax laws, you might not really appreciate the simplicity of it all.


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## clantry (May 26, 2007)

Thanks Synthia, Sorry about that, I was a bit slow off the mark. Now I know what you are talking about. The taxation here in oz is fairly simple, the more you earn the more you pay................that is all there is to it. And at the end of it all, you get a huge stinking bill (no return). This is exactly why we have chosen to be expats for nine years in the past, because we here in oz have, as I believe...............the highest tax rate in the world. And you don't mess around with the ATO......................Thanks again, Cheryl.


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## synthia (Apr 18, 2007)

You don't mess around with the IRS either.

I thought Finland had the highest tax rate. A Finnish person with a sort of average job, like a schoolteacher, pays over 50% in taxes. That's not the marginal rate on the last few dollars. It means if you make 10,000, you get less than 5000.

I once had a professional tax preparer refuse to do my taxes when he learned I'd worked overseas and had to file the exemption form.


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## gkloken (Aug 9, 2007)

I beg to differ on Taxation, in comparison to the complicated USA tax forms South Africa's are a piece of cake . 
Everything is set out with specified deductions 
(4 pages) so you can complete it yourself. You can also bundle all your receipts and take it to a bookkeeper that will do it all for a small fee. 
In the USA you are totally responsible for being in charge and knowledgeable about your taxes and returns. 
South Africa's Tax laws/forms and the Australian one's are very similar.


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## synthia (Apr 18, 2007)

That was my point. The South Africans complained and *****ed about them, and I had to laugh because they were so straightforward and easy, especially compared to American tax forms. But for months before tax time all I heard was how awful they were and how much trouble I was going to have and I'd better get an accountant. It was funny, really.

Of course they also wanted to know how I, as a recently divorced young woman of 37, had managed to get my father's permission to move there!


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## gkloken (Aug 9, 2007)

I know, but a lot of concepts have changed even in the country towns. They think more globally because so many have family members living overseas now.
I never realized how easy South Africans really had it in until I moved to the USA.
In so many ways we were really pampered. Just compare the fully paid yearly leave , the long maternity leave that is paid for. 
Shorter work week and most important the weekends that starts on Friday noon already...!


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## synthia (Apr 18, 2007)

Not to mention maids and gardeners and six weeks leave every year. And people who thought working past normal quitting time just to get something done and out of the way was extremely weird.

I even got to like the store hours. There was something relaxing about knowing that after 5:30 during the week, after 1:00 on Saturday, and all day Sunday, you couldn't go shopping or run errands.


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## RIKKA (Oct 27, 2007)

I spoke to a Tax accountant today actually on a pending move to RSA from USA. An option is to have your hubby listed as a contractor your tax liabaility in RSA can be zero, jus get paid to Gibraltar, Cypress or Caymans. If he is an employee then look into Tax Treaty between Oz and RSA as you could offset the tax. 

Synthia, only an american can appreciate our funky tax law. The more you make the less tax rate you pay. The more creative and crafty you are the more you save. I heard on TV today Warren Buffett (third richest man in the world) Admits he pays a lower tax rate than his secretary.

Beleive me our tax law is complicated. Exemptions, exclusions, and deductions. Amazing.


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## synthia (Apr 18, 2007)

Yeah, the laws are amazingly complex, and the more money you have the more ways you have of sheltering money from taxes. I did see an article the other day that said that in the last couple of years the burden has somewhat shifted, with the highest income individuals paying a much higher pecentage of the total taxes taken in. I find it hard to believe. A statistical trick, perhaps?


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## dhandaulat33 (Dec 18, 2007)

*American government is forcing taxes upon the average citizens?*

Okay, do you know the American government is forcing taxes upon the average citizens? I think under the age of 18, American citizens should not be forced to pay taxes because they are not given the ability to vote for representation. Why should a minor be forced to pay when the minor's voice is often ignored and never plays an immediate role in politics? If I can't vote then I shouldn't pay taxes.


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## synthia (Apr 18, 2007)

All governments force people to pay taxes. No one does it voluntarily.

Do you think that a child movie star, for instance, should be allowed to earn millions tax free just because of age? And that rich kids with trust funds that pay out interest and dividends should get that money tax free? That would be a great break for the rich.

As a minor, you are, financially, sort of 'owned' by your parents. Except states that require a certain percentage of earnings above a specified limit be put into a trust fun, all the money you earn legally belongs to your parents. They can take money from your bank account, sell stock you may have bought, and even sell your Christmas presents if they want. For many years there were legal debates about whether children had any civill rights at all.


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## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

Nice argument - but US expats have to file and (in some cases) pay US income taxes, too, and though we technically can vote back in the US, no one listens to us, either. Most Congressional reps have no idea that overseas residents can vote - so they don't open or read letters (or e-mails) that come from outside their district).

Plus, expats pay taxes in the country where they live and don't get to vote there at all unless they take local nationality. Life is unfair.


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## jmspringbok (Oct 24, 2007)

If I live in SA I have to pay taxes in the US and SA? That isn't right! The tax rate in SA is what about 40%? If I had to pay taxes both places I wouldn't have anything left over to live on. Are there ways of sheltering money?

We are still in the US, thinking about how to make a living in Cape Town.


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## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

If you are a US citizen, you have to file a US tax return and declare your worldwide income no matter where in the world you are living. Generally, you can exempt a big chunk of your "overseas earned income" (i.e. salary earned in another country) and then there are tax credits you can apply against the US tax on other sorts of income.

There are also tax treaties with about 50 countries to try and reduce the danger of double taxation (especially for things like pensions).

The tax situation is often a nasty surprise for US expats. If you're thinking of moving overseas, it's worthwhile to look into it before you decide. It's more a nuisance than anything else, though if you have complicated financial arrangements, it can be more difficult.


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