# Couple deciding on location to move to in Mexico



## perezl

Hi, I am Leticia, my husband (he is dual citizen who moved to US when he married me 20 yrs. ago) are planning to retire in Mexico. So far, we are considering the following: Morelia, Mexico DF, Cuernavaca, Jalapa, San Miguel de Allende, Puerto Vallarta. Definitely need to make the dollar stretch. we would sell our home in Bay Area, California and make the move. 

This spring we will make our first research trip. We have been to all these cities but now we have to look at real estate and cost of living. Puerto Vallarta is due to our love of the ocean. (my husband lived in Cancun 16 yrs. but it is not easy to travel from there ... to central Mexico).... thus, the other choices with lots to do and easy to travel.

Any information you can offer are welcome. I am from California (Mexican American background and my parents are from Jalisco). My husband was born in Mexico d.F. and moved to Cancun to start hospitality career. When I was on vacation we met and ... the rest is history! 20 yrs. later we would love to live in Mexico. We think we should look and research first, possibly buy something that can be base home . Someone recommended we rent first. We can wait and do that , too. Question, how did you all decide on where you settled in Mexico?


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## TundraGreen

perezl said:


> Hi, I am Leticia, my husband (he is dual citizen who moved to US when he married me 20 yrs. ago) are planning to retire in Mexico. So far, we are considering the following: Morelia, Mexico DF, Cuernavaca, Jalapa, San Miguel de Allende, Puerto Vallarta. Definitely need to make the dollar stretch. we would sell our home in Bay Area, California and make the move.
> 
> This spring we will make our first research trip. We have been to all these cities but now we have to look at real estate and cost of living. Puerto Vallarta is due to our love of the ocean. (my husband lived in Cancun 16 yrs. but it is not easy to travel from there ... to central Mexico).... thus, the other choices with lots to do and easy to travel.
> 
> Any information you can offer are welcome. I am from California (Mexican American background and my parents are from Jalisco). My husband was born in Mexico d.F. and moved to Cancun to start hospitality career. When I was on vacation we met and ... the rest is history! 20 yrs. later we would love to live in Mexico. We think we should look and research first, possibly buy something that can be base home . Someone recommended we rent first. We can wait and do that , too. Question, how did you all decide on where you settled in Mexico?


It seems there are as many ways to pick a place as there are people doing the picking. Some people research extensively. Some people just see one place and think it is perfect and for them it is.

I was sent to Mexico by the Peace Corps, liked where they sent me and stayed there.

There is a lot of discussion on this forum about where to live and why. Sometimes when I read it, I contrast it with all the immigrants who moved to the US over the last 200 years. Most came there knowing very little about exactly what it would be like. Few had the luxury of visiting first.

To try to answer your final question: I suggest you be clear in your own mind what your preferences are and which preferences are most important.
Ocean or mountains
Small town or big city
Lots of English speakers or none
Humid or dry climate
Hot or cool climate
Ability to walk to things or happy to drive everywhere

Then after making the list and ordering it in order of importance, be flexible. You may find that you really like something completely different than what you thought. Not very helpful am I?


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## perezl

Good tip. 
Our problem is that we are very adaptable. 
Biggest preferences: walk and public transit a strong + (we can drive Morelia style if necessary). Only will drive if there is good parking. Or will just use car to leave town.
Not too many English speakers is a strong +
Medium or large town a strong +
Prefer access to ocean (at least nearby)
Can adapt to humid or dry. 
Warm or cool good. (not too cool-- 60-80 best) (like the nearby beach to be warm/hot)


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## TundraGreen

perezl said:


> Good tip.
> Our problem is that we are very adaptable.
> Biggest preferences: walk and public transit a strong + (we can drive Morelia style if necessary). Only will drive if there is good parking. Or will just use car to leave town.
> Not too many English speakers is a strong +
> Medium or large town a strong +
> Prefer access to ocean (at least nearby)
> Can adapt to humid or dry.
> Warm or cool good. (not too cool-- 60-80 best) (like the nearby beach to be warm/hot)


The only conflict I see is the ocean access and warm or cool. Most places near the ocean tend more toward hot. An exception might be Ensenada or La Paz, but those are not medium to large places, more medium to small. But then it depends on what you mean by near the ocean. If a bus or car trip of a few hours is okay, there are lots of places that meet all the criteria on your list.


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## perezl

That is right. As long as we can get to a beach in 1-4 hours , that is perfect. I can handle medium to small easily if there is something interesting nearby to do. My husband and I like to be out and about (socializing, hiking, learning something new). He is actually learning Aikido (martial art) right now and is considering teaching AIkido when he retires. He is very athletic and loving it. I would not want Ensenada (too bordertownie) or La Paz (too removed). Puerto Vallarta is ok. Can get to Guadalajara from there on bus or driving. Then again, we do not have to live at the beach. We have lots of family in Mexico City --- and would like to be able to visit them whenever . Cuernavaca and Morelia are pretty close. What becomes important is cost. You say Jalapa is not expensive.... but its cool, right? we plan to take trip to 3-4 of our top potential choices. Veracruz might be a good surprise. I have been there and I really liked it. I just had no idea what it was like to live there. It looked kind of wealthy.....?? I am not. If people are open and interesting, I can be happy anywhere (except Alaska). I do not like the cold and snow for living. How do you spend your time in Jalapa? Is there music, art scene there?


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## DNP

Tundragreen has laid out an excellent set of criteria to guide you in your research. I might add a couple as they may be specific to you.

Do you see yourselves going to the beach a lot, or occasionally?

Do you have children or grandchildren you're going to want to visit somewhere. How about parents and/or grandparents, in either Mexico or the States, or both?

Whatever, Good Luck with your search.

Northern Virginia, USA, and SMA, MEXICO


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## perezl

Thank you, DNP. Very helplful. San Miguel is actually a consideration. What makes me wonder there is--- to many English speaking, almost seemed like they stand out as contrast to the rest of the town. Two cultures going on??? Would you agree? I went there many years ago and this last trip this is what I noticed. I hear San Miguel is centrally located (to visit our family in Morelia and D.F., has excellent healthcare facilities. We wonder cost of living there? I was there 3 yrs ago. Beautiful! Close to Guanajuato and Morelia. Not sure how far from nice beach?? No natural pools like Aguascalientes ... right? One last note: we will never have it all. I have lived in 4-5 places, each had its pluses. My biggest Question about San Miguel is: 1) Cost for apartment or small house. 2) what is there to do?


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## DNP

SMA is a small town, around 200,000. It's expensive, relatively speaking. They're aren't that many expats, but they do stand out. 

Its very much a Mexican town, if you scratch below the surface. It's also a tourist town. Mostly Mexican tourists on weekends. 

Nearest beach, around 6-7 hours away, Zihuatanejo. 

Others know much more about this place than I do.

That's all I know.

The End.

Northern Virginia, USA, and SMA, MEXICO


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## RPBHaas

Listening to the prior dialog may I suggest looking at Colima. It is less than an hour from the ocean. The highway connecting Colima with Manzanillo is excellent. Colima has museums, parks and many options for housing. If you prefer large cities, try Guadalajara. Once again it is somewhat close to PV and has a temperate climate.


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## tepetapan

perezl said:


> Good tip.
> Our problem is that we are very adaptable.
> Biggest preferences: walk and public transit a strong + (we can drive Morelia style if necessary). Only will drive if there is good parking. Or will just use car to leave town.
> Not too many English speakers is a strong +
> Medium or large town a strong +
> Prefer access to ocean (at least nearby)
> Can adapt to humid or dry.
> Warm or cool good. (not too cool-- 60-80 best) (like the nearby beach to be warm/hot)


 Actually you have just about described Catemaco, Veracruz perfectly. The town is 30,000 or so so that may be on the small side for you. 20 to 25 minutes to the Gulf of Mexico, located in the Los Tuxtlas mountains. Temps may sneak below 60 a couple times during the winter and for 6 to 8 weeks in the spring temps can be in the 90s. Average mean temp is in the upper 70s if I remember correctly.


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## Longford

Given what's been said thus far, and the OPs restrictions ... I don't think there's a place which fits the criteria. Not that I can think of. Too rigid, and too unrealistic IMO. Some familiarization trips to these possibilities, spread over 4 or 5 years might prove helpful. Certainly, rent before purchasing given the uncertainty.


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## mickisue1

Longford said:


> Given what's been said thus far, and the OPs restrictions ... I don't think there's a place which fits the criteria. Not that I can think of. Too rigid, and too unrealistic IMO. Some familiarization trips to these possibilities, spread over 4 or 5 years might prove helpful. Certainly, rent before purchasing given the uncertainty.


Isn't that the case with wish lists, though? We write down everything that we think that we want, and then, as we go along, some of them seem less important, and others, more.

While I agree that sorting out is needed, I'm quite certain, given the OP's familiarity with various parts of MX, that she and her husband can make, at least, a tentative decision in much less than 4 years.

A choice, so long as you don't tie yourself to a long term lease or home ownership, is, after all, something that you can modify after making it.


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## AlanMexicali

mickisue1 said:


> Isn't that the case with wish lists, though? We write down everything that we think that we want, and then, as we go along, some of them seem less important, and others, more.
> 
> While I agree that sorting out is needed, I'm quite certain, given the OP's familiarity with various parts of MX, that she and her husband can make, at least, a tentative decision in much less than 4 years.
> 
> A choice, so long as you don't tie yourself to a long term lease or home ownership, is, after all, something that you can modify after making it.


Another thing to consider when retired from what Longford posted is when I sold my house NOB I DID NOT want the money burning a hole in my pocket for a long time or else real estate somewhere else would be more limited every year I SPENT the cash. Realistically we all need to reinvest ASAP. New cars, restuarants, high rents and vacations etc. are not good investments. Alan


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## makaloco

Longford said:


> Given what's been said thus far, and the OPs restrictions ... I don't think there's a place which fits the criteria. Not that I can think of. Too rigid, and too unrealistic IMO. Some familiarization trips to these possibilities, spread over 4 or 5 years might prove helpful. Certainly, rent before purchasing given the uncertainty.


Their requirements are similar to what mine were, with the exception of ease of travel to central Mexico. I was fussier about humidity and wanted lots of sunshine and a casual atmosphere, so I ended up in La Paz. But Leticia is right about the remoteness. We have plenty of flights to the mainland, but it could get expensive to travel there as frequently as they plan to do. Also, this may be more laid back than they're looking for. There is a music and art scene, but it may not be enough to keep them busy. BTW, I was still working and didn't have time or money to spend on an extensive discovery period. I did most of my research online and made a short list. Then I visited. La Paz seemed right for me, so I made the decision after the first trip and bought a house on the second. That was in 2006, and I'm still happily living here.


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## Longford

mickisue1 said:


> Isn't that the case with wish lists, though? We write down everything that we think that we want, and then, as we go along, some of them seem less important, and others, more.
> 
> While I agree that sorting out is needed, I'm quite certain, given the OP's familiarity with various parts of MX, that she and her husband can make, at least, a tentative decision in much less than 4 years.
> 
> A choice, so long as you don't tie yourself to a long term lease or home ownership, is, after all, something that you can modify after making it.


All of this comes down to how flexible someone is. I don't see flexibility on the part of the OP. Not yet. She wants it all, or so it seems to me. :confused2: So my comments are directed to what I know. No further assumptions. :juggle: The Mexico someone thinks they knew 20 years ago doesn't exist today. It's a new world and oftentimes a new learning experience.


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## maesonna

For us, the decision was very simple. We were moving to Mexico to be closer to my husband’s family, so we moved to where they are.


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## conklinwh

perezl said:


> Thank you, DNP. Very helplful. San Miguel is actually a consideration. What makes me wonder there is--- to many English speaking, almost seemed like they stand out as contrast to the rest of the town. Two cultures going on??? Would you agree? I went there many years ago and this last trip this is what I noticed. I hear San Miguel is centrally located (to visit our family in Morelia and D.F., has excellent healthcare facilities. We wonder cost of living there? I was there 3 yrs ago. Beautiful! Close to Guanajuato and Morelia. Not sure how far from nice beach?? No natural pools like Aguascalientes ... right? One last note: we will never have it all. I have lived in 4-5 places, each had its pluses. My biggest Question about San Miguel is: 1) Cost for apartment or small house. 2) what is there to do?


DNP did a pretty good summary. SMA it self is closer to 65-70,000 people with the "county" of SMA with surrounding towns about doubling that. Last I heard was about 10,000 expats of various varieties but not sure of city/county break.

The drive to the beach is much better now with the Morelia cuota but still about 6hrs to Trancones, Ixtapa, Zihua. There are quite a number of hot springs just north of SMA near Atotonilco on the road to Dolores and a lot of the expansion is that direction.

There is always something going on in SMA with most associated with the arts(painting, sculpture, music, theater, dance., etc.). Tourism has greatly shifted the last couple of years and now majority from within Mexico, especially DF, and younger. This means a lot broader and longer nightlife. It used to be that a good dinner, entertainment and home by 10PM the norm but now a lot of places don't get started till after 10PM.

You can find accomodations at almost any level from very inexpensive to quite pricey. It really is up to your interests and budget. We actually have an artist friend in a great 3BR place very near in and she pays less than $200USD/mo.


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## perezl

Where is that, may I ask?


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## perezl

Thank you everyone. Very helpful. You gave us alot to work with. Really appreciate it. We are actually not very picky. I will look at the two new suggestions, Colima, catemaco and Guadalajara. Since we are just beginning to seriously look at move---- this is extremely helpful. I generally find all Mexican cities to be temperate (they all seem to meet my criteria except La Paz and Baja). 
The rental idea is new idea... makes sense. I looked at SMA real estate sight....looks pricey to me (US$200,000- 2 million), but maybe going there we would find alot more. I am hoping to save $$--- under $100,000 would be great, $125, ooo okay. $200 rent for 3 BR is very reasonable!! (1-3 bedroom is all we need). Someone asked me my "wish list" so I put it all out there--- I agree, we will not find it all. Will need to trade off one thing for another. MOST IMPORTANT: able to travel to Mexico City and Morelia for 2-5 day trips, 3-5 hrs. to a beach , entertainment would be great (art, music , etc).... nice walks. ( Weather between 55-80 is ideal). Guadalajara possible, but then I may as well go with Mexico city (more family, and we love it). What holds us back from D.F.? small to medium is more peaceful for day to day life. We are city people but very adaptable. I lived in San Francisco many years, Washington D.C----- husband lived in Mexico City and Cancun. We curretnly live in Oakland and travel around northern CA alot. Hike, wine country, coastal trips, go out to concerts, art museums, plays, comedy, cafes, etc. We love small towns as long as there is something to do (I didn't mention that he has 30 yrs. of hotel experience, running restaurants and bars in hotels). He may want to work a bit. When in Mexico, we usually do not have a car--- it would be nice to not depend on a car. Buses and taxi's are fine , along with walking.


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## perezl

Longford said:


> Given what's been said thus far, and the OPs restrictions ... I don't think there's a place which fits the criteria. Not that I can think of. Too rigid, and too unrealistic IMO. Some familiarization trips to these possibilities, spread over 4 or 5 years might prove helpful. Certainly, rent before purchasing given the uncertainty.


Thank you for your feedback. The truth is, they are not restrictions. Just a "idealistic wish list". I have travelled to most of these places in last 5 years, just wonder what its like to live there. Also, never thought about cost of living in all these places. That is probably a big factor. Would like to be able to travel if we move there. 

SMA--- is real estate available for $100,000 US? (large 1 BR or 2-3 BR)..
Guanajuato was not mentioned... where does that fit in? Its very nice. Why don't people move there? What is the story?
I actually went to Atotonilco and Dolores 3 yrs. ago.... would rather live in a little closer to SMA.... closeby shopping and cafes and plaza.


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## Isla Verde

perezl said:


> MOST IMPORTANT: able to travel to Mexico City and Morelia for 2-5 day trips, 3-5 hrs. to a beach , entertainment would be great (art, music , etc).... nice walks. ( Weather between 55-80 is ideal). Guadalajara possible, but then I may as well go with Mexico city (more family, and we love it). What holds us back from D.F.? small to medium is more peaceful for day to day life.


Having lived in Mexico City while I was still working and now mostly retired, I find that if you don't have to travel around the city during the several rush hours that really clog up the traffic, you can live a fairly peaceful life on a day-to-day basis. You need to find a nice neighborhood (like mine, for instance) that has everything within walking distance (supermarket, regular market, a tianguis or two, small cafes and restaurants, movie theaters, etc., etc.) and is near public transportation when you want to visit other parts of the city, in my case, usually the Centro Historico and Chapultepec.


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## tepetapan

perezl said:


> Thank you for your feedback. The truth is, they are not restrictions. Just a "idealistic wish list". I have travelled to most of these places in last 5 years, just wonder what its like to live there. Also, never thought about cost of living in all these places. That is probably a big factor. Would like to be able to travel if we move there.
> 
> SMA--- is real estate available for $100,000 US? (large 1 BR or 2-3 BR)..
> Guanajuato was not mentioned... where does that fit in? Its very nice. Why don't people move there? What is the story?
> I actually went to Atotonilco and Dolores 3 yrs. ago.... would rather live in a little closer to SMA.... closeby shopping and cafes and plaza.


 SMA may have too much English spoken and too many Starbucks according to your OP. Takes some cash to hang with that crowd. IMO
Check out some of their YouTube videos, pretty scary.


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## Isla Verde

tepetapan said:


> SMA may have too much English spoken and too many Starbucks according to your OP. Takes some cash to hang with that crowd. IMO
> Check out some of their YouTube videos, pretty scary.


I'm intrigued, but not prepared to be horrified, after all, both Halloween and Dia de muertos are over . What's so scary about these videos?


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## perezl

Isla Verde said:


> Having lived in Mexico City while I was still working and now mostly retired, I find that if you don't have to travel around the city during the several rush hours that really clog up the traffic, you can live a fairly peaceful life on a day-to-day basis. You need to find a nice neighborhood (like mine, for instance) that has everything within walking distance (supermarket, regular market, a tianguis or two, small cafes and restaurants, movie theaters, etc., etc.) and is near public transportation when you want to visit other parts of the city, in my case, usually the Centro Historico and Chapultepec.


Do you live in Condesa or near Chapultepec...do you mind recommending neighborhoods? we almost looked at apartments in D.F. -- we were going to look at one apartment in Condesa that was very reasonable. So the pollution does not deter you? No bad symptoms? We usually visit D.F. for 5-7 days and have no problems with headaches or anything.... but we wondered. Our relatives just bough home away from home in Cuernavaca, where they plan to retire slowly.


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## Isla Verde

perezl said:


> Do you live in Condesa or near Chapultepec...do you mind recommending neighborhoods? we almost looked at apartments in D.F. -- we were going to look at one apartment in Condesa that was very reasonable. So the pollution does not deter you? No bad symptoms? We usually visit D.F. for 5-7 days and have no problems with headaches or anything.... but we wondered. Our relatives just bough home away from home in Cuernavaca, where they plan to retire slowly.


Condesa is lovely but a bit too pricey for me. I live in colonia Cuauhtémoc, where all the streets are named for rivers. It's just in back of the American Embassy, and you can see the top of El Angel from my roof. They've been putting up lots of new small apartment buildings in my area and a couple of big ones, so I'm sure you'd be able to find a nice place to rent here. I don´t find the pollution a problem at all - I think that's an urban myth left over from the days when the air really was disgusting, but that was back in the 1970s and 1980s, for the most part.


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## mickisue1

tepetepan--I saw two of the expat videos from SMA, and while boring as could be, they were far from horrifying. 

Now I feel cheated. DANG!


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## perezl

Isla Verde said:


> Condesa is lovely but a bit too pricey for me. I live in colonia Cuauhtémoc, where all the streets are named for rivers. It's just in back of the American Embassy, and you can see the top of El Angel from my roof. They've been putting up lots of new small apartment buildings in my area and a couple of big ones, so I'm sure you'd be able to find a nice place to rent here. I don´t find the pollution a problem at all - I think that's an urban myth left over from the days when the air really was disgusting, but that was back in the 1970s and 1980s, for the most part.


Oh, yes, Cuauhtemoc. We went to the theatre there. i have a feeling this is where we would be.... The relative who sales real estate in DF had spotted a converted apartment for very good price. We never went to see it. Thank you for the information. We will go in May. My husband's father lives in D.F., sister and cousins also. My husband also has a brother in Morelia who wants us to move there. We love Patzcuaro and Morelia but have not decided whether it has enough going on to keep us there. Patzcuaro is beautiful. Zihuatenejo is only 4 hours away. Have family in Cancun , but it may get too isolated. $$$ to travel.


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## perezl

perezl said:


> Oh, yes, Cuauhtemoc. We went to the theatre there. i have a feeling this is where we would be.... The relative who sales real estate in DF had spotted a converted apartment for very good price. We never went to see it. Thank you for the information. We will go in May. My husband's father lives in D.F., sister and cousins also. My husband also has a brother in Morelia who wants us to move there. We love Patzcuaro and Morelia but have not decided whether it has enough going on to keep us there. Patzcuaro is beautiful. Zihuatenejo is only 4 hours away. Have family in Cancun , but it may get too isolated. $$$ to travel.


So how do I see these utube videos they are talking about???


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## Isla Verde

perezl said:


> Oh, yes, Cuauhtemoc. We went to the theatre there. i have a feeling this is where we would be.... The relative who sales real estate in DF had spotted a converted apartment for very good price. We never went to see it. Thank you for the information. We will go in May. My husband's father lives in D.F., sister and cousins also. My husband also has a brother in Morelia who wants us to move there. We love Patzcuaro and Morelia but have not decided whether it has enough going on to keep us there. Patzcuaro is beautiful. Zihuatenejo is only 4 hours away. Have family in Cancun , but it may get too isolated. $$$ to travel.


It would be cool to have you and your husband for neighbors. In any event, let me know when you get here in May, and we can get together. I'd be happy to show you around my little corner of the Mexican Big Apple.


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## perezl

isla verde said:


> it would be cool to have you and your husband for neighbors. In any event, let me know when you get here in may, and we can get together. I'd be happy to show you around my little corner of the mexican big apple.


will do, isla verde! Thank you. We would love that. I will get in touch. You know how times flies. Happy thanksgiving if you celebrate it there. One more question. What does one need there. For example, rent in those apartments, how much for 1-2 bedroom in cuahtemoc? Rent? Purchase?


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## Isla Verde

perezl said:


> will do, isla verde! Thank you. We would love that. I will get in touch. You know how times flies. Happy thanksgiving if you celebrate it there. One more question. What does one need there. For example, rent in those apartments, how much for 1-2 bedroom in cuahtemoc? Rent? Purchase?


I celebrate it here. This year at Sanborn's, though, since the Canadian friends who usually host a turkey feast aren't doing it this year. 

I pay very low rent for this area, $4000 a month for a very small one-bedroom apartment. There's a new large building a few blocks away with large two- and three-bedroom places that may rent for $12,000. Older places would be a bit less, I imagine. I have no idea about sale prices, though. I could check out notices in realtors windows if you like. They're plenty of them around here.


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## tepetapan

mickisue1 said:


> tepetepan--I saw two of the expat videos from SMA, and while boring as could be, they were far from horrifying.
> 
> Now I feel cheated. DANG!


 I would never watch this after dark, it is sure to give me nightmares.


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## DNP

I missed something watching the video you posted. No flash mob scene, just a lot of people seemingly enjoying themselves at a chili fest.

What did you see that I didn't see that you can't watch after dark, because it is sure to give you nightmares?




tepetapan said:


> I would never watch this after dark, it is sure to give me nightmares.
> Video Link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUHFPTKaIpE


Northern Virginia, USA, and SMA, MEXICO


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## mickisue1

I didn't get it. The flash mob looked like a senior citizens exercise class.

Whatever it was, they don't understand the concept of a flash mob; they're supposed to be entertaining, no?


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## makaloco

<SIGH> What is a "flash mob"?


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## conklinwh

DNP said:


> I missed something watching the video you posted. No flash mob scene, just a lot of people seemingly enjoying themselves at a chili fest.
> 
> What did you see that I didn't see that you can't watch after dark, because it is sure to give you nightmares?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Northern Virginia, USA, and SMA, MEXICO


Actually it was a "flash mob" in that it was pre=arranged with dance leaders and practices that seemed to take better with some than others. It was at the 2011 Chile Cook off and must admit that we were participants.

Doubt, "scary" as really just a good time. Flash mob to me is a pre-arranged plan for large group of people to show up someplace and perform some specific act, in this case a dance.

I do need to go through this video to see if we are included as we were on one side with a group of friends from Pozos.


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## conklinwh

conklinwh said:


> Actually it was a "flash mob" in that it was pre=arranged with dance leaders and practices that seemed to take better with some than others. It was at the 2011 Chile Cook off and must admit that we were participants.
> 
> Doubt, "scary" as really just a good time. Flash mob to me is a pre-arranged plan for large group of people to show up someplace and perform some specific act, in this case a dance.
> 
> I do need to go through this video to see if we are included as we were on one side with a group of friends from Pozos.


Sorry to double up on my own note. There are a number of videos on this but not sure that I had seen this before. Luckily I was enough off to one side that not visible too often.

I actually thought the dance to "We are the world" was pretty good. It started in the middle of the concert area at the chile cookoff when a couple "leaders" climbed on the stage and started. Everyone involved then came out of a pretty large crowd and started with more leaders getting on the stage. It was really a lot of fun and I was pleasantly surprised with the dancing. 
What I also found interesting was how many people just tried to join in as looked like fun.

Yes the demographic of the art scene in SMA is skewed older and that was the genesis of the activity. In general, I see the demographic skewing younger and more Mexican in SMA the last half dozen years which is very good for the future.

One thing about SMA is that there is almost always some event taking place with a lot of options.


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## perezl

Isla Verde said:


> I celebrate it here. This year at Sanborn's, though, since the Canadian friends who usually host a turkey feast aren't doing it this year.
> 
> I pay very low rent for this area, $4000 a month for a very small one-bedroom apartment. There's a new large building a few blocks away with large two- and three-bedroom places that may rent for $12,000. Older places would be a bit less, I imagine. I have no idea about sale prices, though. I could check out notices in realtors windows if you like. They're plenty of them around here.


Hi Isla VErde,
So you pay about $400 US for one bedroom? We would want to pay way under $1000 US for rent.... so we are then looking at 1-2 bedroom, or older place for sure. That tells me we really have to go and look. If you have any more information that would be great. If we go in May then we would have chance to check it out.


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## Isla Verde

perezl said:


> Hi Isla VErde,
> So you pay about $400 US for one bedroom? We would want to pay way under $1000 US for rent.... so we are then looking at 1-2 bedroom, or older place for sure. That tells me we really have to go and look. If you have any more information that would be great. If we go in May then we would have chance to check it out.


The exchange rate has been around 13 pesos to a dollar for quite some time now, which means that in dollars I pay a little over $300 US a month for my place. You really have to be here to scope out a neighborhood where you'd enjoy living and then hit the streets to look for rentals. I could pay much less rent for a bigger place in a different neighborhood, but it wouldn't be as safe and centrally-located as mine is. And I like having a good friend (and my landlord) living just down the street.


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## jasavak

Mexico City is very expensive . I have family in Leon , GTO . $400 rents a nice 3 bedroom home in a gated community .



http://inmuebles.mercadolibre.com.mx/casas/renta/_PciaId_Guanajuato_city_TUxNQ0xF0zY0NDk


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## jasavak

Isla Verde said:


> The exchange rate has been around 13 pesos to a dollar for quite some time now, which means that in dollars I pay a little over $300 US a month for my place. You really have to be here to scope out a neighborhood where you'd enjoy living and then hit the streets to look for rentals. I could pay much less rent for a bigger place in a different neighborhood, but it wouldn't be as safe and centrally-located as mine is. And I like having a good friend (and my landlord) living just down the street.





Be aware that Isla Verde lives in a bubble area in Mexico City with a good percentage of Americans and Canadians . 

The rent she pays is 4-5 times higher than the average for Mexico . 

. A decent small 1 bedroom apartment in a non tourist area runs about 800-1200 pesos .


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## mickisue1

Isla lives with Mexicans. 

But she also lives in the capital of the country.

Different parts of any country are more or less expensive to live. Capitals are nearly universally the most expensive.

My youngest pays, to share a tiny house in a sketchy neighborhood with 5 other people in DC, what he'd pay to share a nice two bedroom apartment in the Twin Cities.

And if he lived in NC or GA, he could rent the whole house for that much.


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## Isla Verde

jasavak said:


> Be aware that Isla Verde lives in a bubble area in Mexico City with a good percentage of Americans and Canadians .
> 
> The rent she pays is 4-5 times higher than the average for Mexico .
> 
> . A decent small 1 bedroom apartment in a non tourist area runs about 800-1200 pesos .


Though I live a few blocks in back of the US Embassy, I am almost the only non-Mexican in my neighborhood. The gringos who work at the Embassy and the many banks and businesses along Reforma probably live in the much posher areas, like Polanco or one of the Lomas.

The average rent for Mexico is much less than what I pay because it includes what a large number of very poor and working-class Mexicans pay who live in barrios I doubt you'd want to live in or visit after sundown.

As an older woman living alone, it's important for me to be in a safe, centrally-located area, close to public transportation and cultural attractions like museums and good movie theaters. The rent you quote for a "decent small 1 bedroom apartment" would place me in a part of Mexico City I wouldn't want to live in.


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## Longford

Isla Verde said:


> As an older woman living alone, it's important for me to be in a safe, centrally-located area, close to public transportation and cultural attractions like museums and good movie theaters. The rent you quote for a "decent small 1 bedroom apartment" would place me in a part of Mexico City I wouldn't want to live in.


Living in Mexico at a standard which an average Mexican family lives at, is not something I wish to emulate. Overall, I find Mexico City a very reasonably priced place to live - all things considered. I did 'rough it' when I moved there in the early 1990s. Lived in an apartment which belonged to the then recently deceased mother of a friend in what turned out to be a notorious Unidad Habitacional. Out at the Mixhuca metro stop. Back then I paid about the peso equivalent of US$100. The peso was exchanging at the rate of 3-1. The experience proved enormously enlightening / educational as I wanted to understand how the "average" person lived. I moved from there to Colonia Cuauhtemoc and found it more to my liking. Later, I moved to Colonia Centro (not Centro Historico). It's a tough task to find acceptable housing, even when the rent is high. Noise, crime, oddball neighbors, cultural differences, transportation ... each presents challenges to be met and overcome. And what suits one of us will not satisfy the next in line.


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## Isla Verde

Longford said:


> I moved from there to Colonia Cuauhtemoc and found it more to my liking.


When did you live in colonia Cuauhtémoc? Were we ever neighbors? I've lived here permanently since 2007 but have spent lots of time in the area, off and on, since 1978.


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## Longford

Isla Verde said:


> When did you live in colonia Cuauhtémoc? Were we ever neighbors? I've lived here permanently since 2007 but have spent lots of time in the area, off and on, since 1978.


I lived almost at the intersection of Rio Mississippi and Calle Lerma in 1994. I moved around a lot. Now, when I visit, I often stay in Colonia Juarez, in an apartment rented by a friend on Calle Copenhague close to the Marriott.


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## perezl

Isla Verde said:


> The exchange rate has been around 13 pesos to a dollar for quite some time now, which means that in dollars I pay a little over $300 US a month for my place. You really have to be here to scope out a neighborhood where you'd enjoy living and then hit the streets to look for rentals. I could pay much less rent for a bigger place in a different neighborhood, but it wouldn't be as safe and centrally-located as mine is. And I like having a good friend (and my landlord) living just down the street.


I think we are alot like you.... like being in centally located neighborhood that is safe.


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## AlanMexicali

perezl said:


> I think we are alot like you.... like being in centally located neighborhood that is safe.


Safety is not only a concern for us expats it is now becoming one of the fastest growing industries for all Mexicans in most places, mainly cities I would suspect. The old system of taking care of loved ones and neighbors is still the most used but here gated guarded communities and stricter security at many places is growing exponentially. The overall tranquillity and laxed attitude of many seems to be fading in certain segments that was once the norm here.


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## perezl

tetetapan,
Thank you! I am going to read up on Catemaco. Is it protected from Narcotraficantes? I don't know if I should even pay attention to that. I have heard of a few incidents that did bring some concern... students here at my college experiencing serious trouble on their vacation. (kidnapping for ransom $$, all word of mouth but fact) Where are you? What is your take on it all?


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## perezl

jasavak said:


> Mexico City is very expensive . I have family in Leon , GTO . $400 rents a nice 3 bedroom home in a gated community .
> 
> 
> 
> Renta de Casas Solas en León, Guanajuato - MercadoLibre México


Thanks! That is where they have the big festival every summer (august?). Where do you live?


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## Longford

I think that taking care of one another resulted from economic considerations, probably as much as sentimentality/loyalty. As nations move from "underdeveloped" to "developing" and finally "developed" status lifestyles change. Of the single men and women friends/acquaintenances I have in Mexico few really want to live at home once they've completed their university education. They want to experience a greater degree of independence. If they're still at home it's almost always because they cannot afford to live on their own. We saw the same thing in the USA as the nation developed. Small town life is about the same in Mexico as it is in the USA. There's still a strong connection between family members many of whom still share housing. The vast majority of expats living in Mexico don't live in gated communities and/or high walls with electrified wires along the top. You'll find more Mexicans doing that than expats, I believe. With an increasing level of crime and violence, neighbors who once could be counted on to watch-out for your home/apartment when you were away, at work ... traveling, etc., now often turn a blind eye to robberies and violence because they don't want the criminals to notice, target them. I believe that my neighbors in Chicago watch-out for me more than my neighbors in Mexico City did.


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## jasavak

perezl said:


> Thanks! That is where they have the big festival every summer (august?). Where do you live?



The feria de Leon (big festival ) is in January . . My family's house is in an area with no gringos nearby . A typical two bedroom , 1 bath infonavit style home rents for around $100.

My sister in law collects 1200 pesos for her house . 

If I lived there year round I would chose to buy a home in one of the newer gated communities for $60,000 -$90,000 or rent for around $300 - $400 . Last year I toured a 1100 sf. 3 bed , 2.5 bath overlooking a huge community pool for $77,000 . The HOA fees included 24 hour security for 200 pesos monthly and the property tax $80 per year . This particular gated community had only Mexicans and the people I met were school teachers , small business owners an architect and the realtor that showed us the property was living in the same colony .


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## perezl

Jasavak, 

thank you for info. I remember you now. Leon! Now we are talking... I am leaving Bay Area , CA because it will be too expensive to keep up with. I have tiny nice 2 bedroom, 1 bath and will have to cointinue to pay $4400 tax annually. Your information is a breath of fresh air.


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## perezl

AlanMexicali said:


> Another thing to consider when retired from what Longford posted is when I sold my house NOB I DID NOT want the money burning a hole in my pocket for a long time or else real estate somewhere else would be more limited every year I SPENT the cash. Realistically we all need to reinvest ASAP. New cars, restuarants, high rents and vacations etc. are not good investments. Alan


Very good tips. You have us thinking. We need to be smart about this. Don't want to burn a whole in our savings..... need to make informed decision. Do youlive in Mexicali, Alan?


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## perezl

Do't worry, I am in touch. We went twice to Mexico last year. Usually go at least every 2 years. Just did't see it as permanent.... so now we are looking at it different. For example, I love Oaxaca but its a little remote for me. It would cost to travel often. Bus ride is long. 

I am listening to you... with awareness. We are willing to give up alot of my list--- need to rethink with top priorities in mind. At this point, I still have following on our list: D.F, Queretaro, Morelia/Patcuaro area, Colima, Catemaco or Jalapa , Veracruz, Cuernavaca or somewhere not far from there. Maybe somewhere near Guadalajara (like D.F. more)


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## perezl

Love your humor! You have the drift of my spirit. Can't believe Mexicanos spend so much on a Starbucks coffee (when we go to D.F. we get employee rate at Sheraton and we stay there for almost nada). Zona Rosa is pricey place . Great for transportation though! El ?globo bakery down the street is great but the Rosca we buy for our family is sure pricey!! ($$25-29 US)


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## perezl

conklinwh said:


> Actually it was a "flash mob" in that it was pre=arranged with dance leaders and practices that seemed to take better with some than others. It was at the 2011 Chile Cook off and must admit that we were participants.
> 
> Doubt, "scary" as really just a good time. Flash mob to me is a pre-arranged plan for large group of people to show up someplace and perform some specific act, in this case a dance.
> 
> I do need to go through this video to see if we are included as we were on one side with a group of friends from Pozos.


Is Pozos nearby??? DO you recommend Guanajuato for living? Nobody has recommended Guanajuato???


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## conklinwh

perezl said:


> Is Pozos nearby??? DO you recommend Guanajuato for living? Nobody has recommended Guanajuato???


Actually I and a number of other people on various threads have recommended Guanauato(expect you mean city versus state). I think it's a great place. Lot of student oriented activities as one of the best arts universities in Mexico. 
Only drawbacks that I've ever heard are that not a lot of great restaurant choices and probably requires a dedication to learning Spanish as not a large expat population.

BTW, Mineral de Pozos is about 45min from San Miguel, Queretaro and Dolores Hidalgo. It is in the state of Guanajuato and about 1.5 hours from the city of Guanajuato.


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## perezl

Interesting. We really like Gto. (the city). Its beautiful. Have no idea what living there costs but we like it. No one has ever suggested it to us. We were there 3 years ago and we really liked it, especially because its student town... I am a college Counselor so.... Did not find great food, but okay food. Its a choice we would consider. We are fluent in spanish....(my husband is still learning English here in California). Thank you!! Queretaro is highly recommended so we want to check it out. Never been there.


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## Longford

conklinwh said:


> Actually I and a number of other people on various threads have recommended Guanauato(expect you mean city versus state). I think it's a great place. Lot of student oriented activities as one of the best arts universities in Mexico.
> Only drawbacks that I've ever heard are that not a lot of great restaurant choices and probably requires a dedication to learning Spanish as not a large expat population.
> 
> BTW, Mineral de Pozos is about 45min from San Miguel, Queretaro and Dolores Hidalgo. It is in the state of Guanajuato and about 1.5 hours from the city of Guanajuato.


Though I haven't lived there I've visited many times and I early-on scratched-off Guanajuato (city) as a possible place to move to in Mexico. I think it's a city one either really likes, or doesn't. I'd take San Miguel de Allende over Guanajuato any day of the week.

I've traveled throughout much of Mexico, over a period of 43 years (got an early start!). My preferences change as Mexico changes, I change, and the years pass and I learn more about Mexico. I was in Zacatecas in September this year and think it just about meets what I think I'd need to be happy if I don't decide to return to Mexico City to live. 

We all know there's no one "right place" that meets the likes/dislkies/needs/wants of each one of us. All we can do is think these things through, do our homework, make some familiarization trips ... and decide. Or, as in my situation ... continue to procrastenate.


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## perezl

So Gto is too Spanish language dependent and not enough good food. We wondered how open people are there... history of "hating " Diego Rivera's dad.. for being too radical in his politics. Are they very conservative there? Is it too provincial? I am attracted to cities with lots of people with open minds (i.,e. Oaxaca). Morelia used to be extremely provincial and conservative, but now I think its changed and opened up to the world.

Zacatecas has been recommended to us. What do you know about Zacatecas?


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## perezl

Longford said:


> Though I haven't lived there I've visited many times and I early-on scratched-off Guanajuato (city) as a possible place to move to in Mexico. I think it's a city one either really likes, or doesn't. I'd take San Miguel de Allende over Guanajuato any day of the week.
> 
> I've traveled throughout much of Mexico, over a period of 43 years (got an early start!). My preferences change as Mexico changes, I change, and the years pass and I learn more about Mexico. I was in Zacatecas in September this year and think it just about meets what I think I'd need to be happy if I don't decide to return to Mexico City to live.
> 
> We all know there's no one "right place" that meets the likes/dislkies/needs/wants of each one of us. All we can do is think these things through, do our homework, make some familiarization trips ... and decide. Or, as in my situation ... continue to procrastenate.


ONE MORE QUESTION-- if you don't mind..... If you are in Pozos is your life really more based on social scene in SMA? We have good friend that plans to move to SMA.... its still on our list too. I have to admit, I was shocked at all the expensive restaurants (NYC prices) all over town. Not too many good and mid-priced compared to Mexico city and the like. They looked like they were made for foreigners... am i right?


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## Longford

perezl said:


> ONE MORE QUESTION-- if you don't mind..... If you are in Pozos is your life really more based on social scene in SMA? We have good friend that plans to move to SMA.... its still on our list too. I have to admit, I was shocked at all the expensive restaurants (NYC prices) all over town. Not too many good and mid-priced compared to Mexico city and the like. They looked like they were made for foreigners... am i right?


Tourism in San Miguel de Allende is primarily Mexican, not foreigner. Far more Mexicans holiday there. 

Yes, many restaurants cater to the wealthier Mexican and foreign tourists. Since only a small percentage of SMA residents are foreigners, there are good, reasonably-priced restaurants where locals eat. One has to network and investigate and get away from the Jardin to find them, though. I think it's commonplace for recently transplanted expats, even middle-class Mexicans, to visit the restaurants and bars in town until they identify a couple of favorite places for infrequent visits in the future, or they get the urge out of their system.

Remember, too, that people who live in SMA, the Mexican population, probably eat relatively few meals in local restaurants. They eat at home. Eat their own cooking. Firstly because it's less expensive. Mainly because they like their own cooking better. (this is true for most of Mexico) 

It's essential for people, expats, who aren't fluent in Spanish study the language before they move to Mexico and then continue study for a period after they arrive. Otherwise they will always have fewer options, pay higher prices ... live with more stress than they have to.

These are my observations based on my experiences.


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## jasavak

perezl said:


> Jasavak,
> 
> thank you for info. I remember you now. Leon! Now we are talking... I am leaving Bay Area , CA because it will be too expensive to keep up with. I have tiny nice 2 bedroom, 1 bath and will have to cointinue to pay $4400 tax annually. Your information is a breath of fresh air.


 Well I pay $12,000 in annual property taxes in Texas . From reading your posts , you may want to consider Guadalajara . I on the other hand prefer smaller towns as long as they have a few good restaurants and a friendly atmosphere . I also prefer cool dry weather places that have some natural scenery . Leon has grown into a big city , but the weather isn't bad . The capital city of Guanajuato has cooler weather and some nicer scenery and historic culture , but it has it's negatives . 
In many of these places you are better off without a car because the problems with parking , storage and costs .


----------



## conklinwh

perezl said:


> ONE MORE QUESTION-- if you don't mind..... If you are in Pozos is your life really more based on social scene in SMA? We have good friend that plans to move to SMA.... its still on our list too. I have to admit, I was shocked at all the expensive restaurants (NYC prices) all over town. Not too many good and mid-priced compared to Mexico city and the like. They looked like they were made for foreigners... am i right?


Although you asked this of Longford, probably meant for me as we live in Pozos.

I'm not sure that I'm the best to answer as we are sort of semi-hermits. We live on about 6 acres a 10 minute walk from town in the abandoned mine complexes with two dogs and two cats. My wife is a painter and gardener with both a separate studio and greenhouse. I'm a history buff and walk the hills and mine complexes every day with the dogs. I'm also into the local culture & tourism committee as we are trying to deal with Pozos becoming a Pueblo Magico.

Most of our friend, expats and Mexicans, are from Pozos with a few from San Luis de la Paz(5mi) or Queretaro/San Miguel(both 45min). We can get most of what we want from Pozos/San Luis but I go to San Miguel weekly for mail and banking. I also go once or twice a month to Queretaro to Home Depot, Costco and Superama. Both places have great restaurants but we usually do comida as we don't like to drive back in the dark.

As to Guanajuato. We do think that it is a great place. We never see many expats and it is not noted for the food. I'm surprised that Guanajuato would be considered conservative with the very heavy student population but I guess it could be as certainly a PAN bastian. However, the bajio in general has a reputation for being very independent. That is where the Independence movement started and also a hot bed during the Cristeros war. As with about anyplace in Mexico, you need stay there for 3-6 months to see for yourself.

Zacatecas is also a place that we really like but it is by far the coldest of any of the historical mining towns. We've found great restaurants, museums and just interesting places to visit.

I think a lot of the decision starts with beach/highlands temperatures. After that decisions probably include distance to the border if a driver and comfort level. Most people I know, excluding those with Mexican spouse, seem to look for ease of transition with the 1st move.
If this in the highlands, initial choice is often "lakeside" or San Miguel. There are exceptions of course as I remember one OP that moved with whole family to very Mexican area outside Taxco for total immersion lifestyle.
BTW, only point with Mexican spouse is that makes a big difference, in my view, in transition dynamics.


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## jasavak

conklinwh said:


> Although you asked this of Longford, probably meant for me as we live in Pozos.
> 
> I'm not sure that I'm the best to answer as we are sort of semi-hermits. We live on about 6 acres a 10 minute walk from town in the abandoned mine complexes with two dogs and two cats. My wife is a painter and gardener with both a separate studio and greenhouse. I'm a history buff and walk the hills and mine complexes every day with the dogs. I'm also into the local culture & tourism committee as we are trying to deal with Pozos becoming a Pueblo Magico.
> 
> Most of our friend, expats and Mexicans, are from Pozos with a few from San Luis de la Paz(5mi) or Queretaro/San Miguel(both 45min). We can get most of what we want from Pozos/San Luis but I go to San Miguel weekly for mail and banking. I also go once or twice a month to Queretaro to Home Depot, Costco and Superama. Both places have great restaurants but we usually do comida as we don't like to drive back in the dark.
> 
> As to Guanajuato. We do think that it is a great place. We never see many expats and it is not noted for the food. I'm surprised that Guanajuato would be considered conservative with the very heavy student population but I guess it could be as certainly a PAN bastian. However, the bajio in general has a reputation for being very independent. That is where the Independence movement started and also a hot bed during the Cristeros war. As with about anyplace in Mexico, you need stay there for 3-6 months to see for yourself.
> 
> Zacatecas is also a place that we really like but it is by far the coldest of any of the historical mining towns. We've found great restaurants, museums and just interesting places to visit.
> 
> I think a lot of the decision starts with beach/highlands temperatures. After that decisions probably include distance to the border if a driver and comfort level. Most people I know, excluding those with Mexican spouse, seem to look for ease of transition with the 1st move.
> If this in the highlands, initial choice is often "lakeside" or San Miguel. There are exceptions of course as I remember one OP that moved with whole family to very Mexican area outside Taxco for total immersion lifestyle.
> BTW, only point with Mexican spouse is that makes a big difference, in my view, in transition dynamics.



Yes , the city of Guanajuato is filled with young students who attend the university . It's defiantly not socially conservative . I don't think most of us understand the differences between how the PRI , PAN , PRD or how other party's govern . When it comes to morals and social habits , the Catholic church is much more of an influence than any political party . When I was married in Jalisco, we had plenty of beer at reception , but the priest was the first one to ask for something stronger . We sent someone to bring a bottle of brandy for each table.


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## perezl

Thought I would add a little note. My familia is from Jalisco (Jalostotitlan and Santa Ana). My great uncle was assasinated there ...during the cristero movement). Santo Toribio Romo.
My relatives run the museum there. My cousin designed and made to Santo Torivio monument/statue there. My cousin and 400 other relatives of Toribio all live in Sacramento, California. Have you heard of santo Toribio? My cousin is related to Padre Hidalgo. Small world. The Diego Rivera stuff I got from his biography--- also from his museum in Gto. His old friend opened the museum to spite the city of GTo for pressuring his father out of there. His father then went to Mexico City where he had contacts for work.


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## perezl

Thank you so much for your insites. I plan to check these places out, for sure. IN some it seems like real estate is high.


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## perezl

Good story. Love it! Yes, tequila and pulque are usually at the weddings! I was there once for 3 months and pulque was the hit. Here , we do tequila. I loved in Oaxaca , they gave me mexcal to cure my stomach ache. (it worked). I really appreciate your sharing . Your life sounds really tranquil and interesting. Maybe one day we will meet you.... Everything you say about Guanajuato keeps me interested. Queretaro has me interested, too. Right now I am intervewing for new job... and it would be my last before I retire. I just read the information about new laws for foreigners (min. income). Don't think it will affect us since my husband is Mexican citizen. (he is dual)


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## Infidel_jack

perezl said:


> Good story. Love it! Yes, tequila and pulque are usually at the weddings! I was there once for 3 months and pulque was the hit. Here , we do tequila. I loved in Oaxaca , they gave me mexcal to cure my stomach ache. (it worked). I really appreciate your sharing . Your life sounds really tranquil and interesting. Maybe one day we will meet you.... Everything you say about Guanajuato keeps me interested. Queretaro has me interested, too. Right now I am intervewing for new job... and it would be my last before I retire. I just read the information about new laws for foreigners (min. income). Don't think it will affect us since my husband is Mexican citizen. (he is dual)


I went to the wedding of one of my ex wife's neighbors in Piedras Negras, Coahuila en la frontera de Eagle Pass, Texas and each seat at each table at the reception had a bottle of Ron Presidente (Domeque) spelling of Domeque? If you were still conscious after the first bottle another would appear. I have no memory beyond the second bottle. That was 40 years ago.


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## perezl

Where do you sell yoru art? Or it sounds lke she is the artist....?


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## jasavak

perezl said:


> Good story. Love it! Yes, tequila and pulque are usually at the weddings! I was there once for 3 months and pulque was the hit. Here , we do tequila. I loved in Oaxaca , they gave me mexcal to cure my stomach ache. (it worked). I really appreciate your sharing . Your life sounds really tranquil and interesting. Maybe one day we will meet you.... Everything you say about Guanajuato keeps me interested. Queretaro has me interested, too. Right now I am intervewing for new job... and it would be my last before I retire. I just read the information about new laws for foreigners (min. income). Don't think it will affect us since my husband is Mexican citizen. (he is dual)



My wife is also a dual citizen . She was nationalized in 1995 . We were married in San Diego de Alejandria , Jalisco In 1988 when things were a bit different. En aquel tiempo “ El Presidente “ brandy sold for slightly less than “ Don Pedro “ . Although Don Pedro was a better brandy , most weddings chose El Presidente because of the lower cost . Mariachi’s were very reasonable but many people chose conjuntos or bandas . Now days , tequila is back on the tables and Mariachi’s are much more expensive . I’ve never seen pulque served at a wedding , but I’m sure it is used in some areas .


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## jasavak

perezl said:


> Thought I would add a little note. My familia is from Jalisco (Jalostotitlan and Santa Ana). My great uncle was assasinated there ...during the cristero movement). Santo Toribio Romo.
> My relatives run the museum there. My cousin designed and made to Santo Torivio monument/statue there. My cousin and 400 other relatives of Toribio all live in Sacramento, California. Have you heard of santo Toribio? My cousin is related to Padre Hidalgo. Small world. The Diego Rivera stuff I got from his biography--- also from his museum in Gto. His old friend opened the museum to spite the city of GTo for pressuring his father out of there. His father then went to Mexico City where he had contacts for work.


 We have visited the Santo Torivio monument in Santa Ana de Conde a few times over the years . 
My wifes's family also clashed with the military during the cristero movement in San Julian , Jalisco , just east of San Miguel el Alto . They were firing rifles from slots in the attic of a ranch style house . The soldiers didn't know where the shots were coming from so they retreated .


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## perezl

jasavak said:


> We have visited the Santo Torivio monument in Santa Ana de Conde a few times over the years .
> My wifes's family also clashed with the military during the cristero movement in San Julian , Jalisco , just east of San Miguel el Alto . They were firing rifles from slots in the attic of a ranch style house . The soldiers didn't know where the shots were coming from so they retreated .



A movie on the whole Cristero movement was released recently. it was playing for several months. I missed it. Of course, all my family went to see it. Its hard to imagine those old days. Wow, rifles out of the slots of attic!! If you can see a copy, another great movie made is called "The Wind that Swept Mexico". Its all the history buffs , visuals, the works! It actually has several interviews with Zapatistas... who passed away right when the movie was completed. They took 10 yrs. to make it.


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## Shoes

How is it living in La Paz for you. COL good and affordable?

Thanks


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## NinP

I'm new to this thread, but in reading it I saw references to both Morelia and Pátzcuaro. My husband and I live in Pátzcuaro and love it--not for the excellent restaurants, because there aren't any, and not because of the perfect climate, because it isn't. To be honest, the weather is very pleasant most of the year, though late November through early February is the coldest time.

We like it because it is in the middle of one of the most interesting regions of México, the Purépecha empire. There are craft villages all over the place, each with specialties, and we have spent many a pleasant day with friends wandering around, visiting artisans and seeing that the Purépecha heritage is intact and vital to this day. Plus the countryside is beautiful, especially in the summer when it turns bright green. Ireland has nothing on Michoacán in the rainy season 

We also appreciate being about an hour from the center of Morelia, where there are many free music events--we never miss the chamber orchestra or the state symphony--as well as Costco, Superama, etc. Morelia is a beautiful colonial city--it's been described as the most amazing part of México you've never heard of--and there are wonderful museums and good restaurants to keep oneself occupied. The oldest music conservatory in the Americas is in Morelia, so you see a lot of kids on the street carrying instruments, and the concerts are full of young people, unlike what we see in the US where the majority of the audience is grey-haired. 

It's about 3-1/2 hours to Zihuatanejo, where there are pleasant hotels in all price categories, and then there's Ixtapa if you want that kind of thing, and Barra de Potosí if you want to be closer to nature.

A few people mentioned Guanajuato, which is admittedly a lovely town with the youthful vibe of students. But friends of ours moved from Guanajuato to Pátzcuaro (and love it) simply because once they climbed the many, many stairs to their house they were reluctant to go out again. So they didn't have the social life they have here simply because the geography isn't keeping them in their house.

I would recommend visiting all the places that people have recommended. I know it's not easy to buzz around the country, but you owe it to yourself to check out these ideas. In our case we'd spent many years traveling through various parts of México but somehow we always found ourselves in Pátzcuaro--so we decided to rent a house and find out just how much we liked it. Turned out we liked it a lot, enough to buy a house, sell out of the US, give away or sell most of our possessions and move here full time--and we haven't regretted it for a minute.

Sounds as if you have a real grasp of what you want. The hard part is finding it in a country the size of México. In any case, you will find the place that feels right for you, regardless of what the rest of us say. Have fun with the search--that can be the best part.

Nancy


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## perezl

Nancy,
Thank you so much for writing to me. I am new at this too. I have been to Patzcuaro. It is actually where I fell in love with my husband. I met him in Cancun (I was on vacation, he owrked in Cancun). We travelled together to Morelia and Patzcuaro... and fell in love. Today,20 years later, my sister in law (my husband's brother and wife) have been living in Morelia for 25 years. He works in hotel industry. They hope that we move there. I dojn't want to do it for them; I would want to do it for me. I want to love where I live. From what you are saying, it sounds like we may like it for living. I have been to most of the little towns you talk about (Tzin., santa ana, etc) and I have a small collection of Katrinas (Catrinas?). The people were really nice. I definitely think we need to keep in on our radar. Guanajuato may not be perfect based on what you said. Can you share what houses may go for (or apts) in Patzcuaro? We would not want to spend alot (1, 2 bedroom or 3). No kids, but we would sometimes have visitors. We would rent first. Do you happen to know how much is rent for 1-2 bedroom?? I have stayed downtown before in one of the old colonials. Chilly but cheap! If we go I would love to meet you. I am waiting to see if I get new job or not. If not, then we are going in May. (2-3 weeks checking out potential cities/towns.) Patzcuaro/Morelia is on our list for sure. Patzcuaro is magical. I wonder about affordability since so many foreigners are moving there???


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## conklinwh

perezl said:


> A movie on the whole Cristero movement was released recently. it was playing for several months. I missed it. Of course, all my family went to see it. Its hard to imagine those old days. Wow, rifles out of the slots of attic!! If you can see a copy, another great movie made is called "The Wind that Swept Mexico". Its all the history buffs , visuals, the works! It actually has several interviews with Zapatistas... who passed away right when the movie was completed. They took 10 yrs. to make it.


I heard that there were large caves in Jalisco where people & horses hid and could ride out to attack the military.
The Cristeros war history is still very prevalent in Pozos. The woman that was mayor of Pozos at the time hid the priest and relics in her house.
It is a very old family that still lives there. Once or twice a year they open their house. In the kitchen, there is a very large niche for the relics that is covered by a painting, the then President on one side and Jesus on the other.


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## JohnSoCal

TundraGreen said:


> The only conflict I see is the ocean access and warm or cool. Most places near the ocean tend more toward hot. An exception might be Ensenada or La Paz, but those are not medium to large places, more medium to small. But then it depends on what you mean by near the ocean. If a bus or car trip of a few hours is okay, there are lots of places that meet all the criteria on your list.


Ensenada satisfies the temperature desired but La Paz is pretty hot in the summer. Having said that, La Paz is my favorite city in Mexico and I have lived and visited in several different areas of Mexico from coast to coast.


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## jasavak

JohnSoCal said:


> Ensenada satisfies the temperature desired but La Paz is pretty hot in the summer. Having said that, La Paz is my favorite city in Mexico and I have lived and visited in several different areas of Mexico from coast to coast.


 I also like La Paz. I don't want the hot summers . How is Cabo San Lucas in the summer ?


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## JohnSoCal

jasavak said:


> I also like La Paz. I don't want the hot summers . How is Cabo San Lucas in the summer ?


It is pretty hot much like La Paz. with summer temps at 100+.


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