# England Gun Laws



## kyleishere (Aug 1, 2007)

England sure has a lot of gun laws. I have heard that they even are thinking about illegalizing knives. Is that true? What do you think about these laws? why doesn't England want its people to be able to defend themselves? Why are they taking away freedom?


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## Penguins_Pet_Pumpkin (Jul 16, 2007)

Hmm, the recent knife-related deaths might have something to do with that. Hadn't heard about this, but really - why does an individual need to carry around a knife? As for guns, I had one back in the States. I don't miss it.


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## Sallysoapdish (Aug 5, 2007)

Maybe the gun laws have something to do with not encouraging scenes where there are shootouts in schools by crazy kids etc...who knows...


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## smcquie (Jun 11, 2007)

kyleishere said:


> England sure has a lot of gun laws. I have heard that they even are thinking about illegalizing knives. Is that true? What do you think about these laws? why doesn't England want its people to be able to defend themselves? Why are they taking away freedom?


Defend themselves against what? If noone is carrying arms, then we don't need defense. If you are so against it and you feel it is absolutely necessary to carry arms, then I would suggest this is not the lifestyle for you.

The right to bear arms is only slightly more ridiculous than the right to arm bears.


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## kendra (Aug 4, 2007)

We've had the same thing here in Oz, with very strict laws brought in,the owner must do a course, keep the gun & ammo locked & bolted in separate steel cabinets etc. Which sounds sensible except of course the criminals have chosen not to announce and register theirs, and it makes it damn difficult to get the gun if you have to shoot an angry snake or theres a fox in the chook house.
I think the shootings crime rate has actually gone up and so have snake bite cases. Gotta love government laws, same all over the world - not thought out properly.


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## oddball (Aug 1, 2007)

*gun laws*



kyleishere said:


> England sure has a lot of gun laws. I have heard that they even are thinking about illegalizing knives. Is that true? What do you think about these laws? why doesn't England want its people to be able to defend themselves? Why are they taking away freedom?


 When motor vehicles became popular,laws were enacted for people to drive on the same side of the road and in the same direction ,when they became prolific,laws were passed to instal traffic lights, it was to protect people against themselves , but of course there are still accidents . Gun and knife laws are intended to establish the same equilibrium,for years the police were not armed because there was no neccesity,times have changed, if you feel the need to carry a gun,go to America or perhaps the middle east,you can get shot 7/24 there,is that what you want . Colin


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## Hurricane (Aug 12, 2007)

Interesting debate.

I have guns, I shoot so they do come in handy, and I have various levels of Knives, axes and such like for my job, and I have never once felt the need to go and kill anyone.

I think it boils down to the user, as the handgun laws brought in after Dunblane did nothing to abate the ever rising gun crime.

The Gov are now attempting to restrict the sale and licensing of shotguns, despite the fact that only a tiny percentage of gun crime is committed by them. 

I for one oppose tighter restrictions, but this doesn't mean that I condone gun crime, it is obvious that guns can be bought from anywhere and if a criminal wants to buy one and use it they will, but I do think the police should have the option of being armed.


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

Well I know its probably an over simplistic view, but if you look at the States where to carry a gun is a right, it seems to me that the amount of gun crime is horrific.

Is that the way the UK would go if freedom to bear arms was bought in (which of course it never will be)


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## Hurricane (Aug 12, 2007)

Stravinsky said:


> Well I know its probably an over simplistic view, but if you look at the States where to carry a gun is a right, it seems to me that the amount of gun crime is horrific.
> 
> Is that the way the UK would go if freedom to bear arms was bought in (which of course it never will be)


I definately don't want the gun laws loosened.

In fact, as some one in the "know" can testify, the UK has very strict laws and if those laws are ignored your right to have a gun is rescinded and pretty fast.


A friend here broke up with his OH recently and failed to tell the Police that he had moved his guns and therefore his address was wrong, he has been banned for 2 years from applying for a new licence.


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## STGO (Nov 11, 2007)

Guns are bad full stop. I hope we never allow ownership of guns for protection. Just look at the latest, that young teenage boy who accidently killed his little sister, he has to live with that mistake forever not just the jail term he has been given. And i am glad the courts decided to punish the fool parent who thought it was a good idea to keep one of these things in the house.
Sorry but i had to pull myself back from a full blown rant then.


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## Hurricane (Aug 12, 2007)

Tonyservices said:


> Guns are bad full stop. I hope we never allow ownership of guns for protection. Just look at the latest, that young teenage boy who accidently killed his little sister, he has to live with that mistake forever not just the jail term he has been given. And i am glad the courts decided to punish the fool parent who thought it was a good idea to keep one of these things in the house.
> Sorry but i had to pull myself back from a full blown rant then.


I can understand that but hand guns are already banned and the tragic accident still happened didn't it?


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## STGO (Nov 11, 2007)

Yes, that is true. 
But,
imagine what it would be like if we were allowed to hold/own hand guns?



I grew up with firearms, so I know the risks, but I also know how to avoid them turning tragic. Not all are blessed with this acumen, sorry if i offend anyone, but its true.

Safety always.


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## Hurricane (Aug 12, 2007)

Tonyservices said:


> Yes, that is true.
> But,
> imagine what it would be like if we were allowed to hold/own hand guns?
> 
> ...


I own guns and I haven't killed a sole.


If someone is prepared to own something that is illegal then they are prepared to use it illegally too.


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## STGO (Nov 11, 2007)

Tiz true, sadly


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## itsadickfore (Dec 6, 2007)

Just look at automobile fatalities...maybe we should ban automobiles; Or hospitals, look at how many people die in hospitals, maybe we should ban hospitals!

OK...all joking aside. What are the actuall gun laws for the UK? Specifics for expats? 

I'm look at a 3 year assignment in the UK and wondering what all I can bring over.


============================================
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -B.Franklin*


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## Hurricane (Aug 12, 2007)

itsadickfore said:


> Just look at automobile fatalities...maybe we should ban automobiles; Or hospitals, look at how many people die in hospitals, maybe we should ban hospitals!
> 
> OK...all joking aside. What are the actuall gun laws for the UK? Specifics for expats?
> 
> ...




You wont be allowed to bring anything over.


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## ricardo blue (Jun 6, 2007)

Hurricane said:


> You wont be allowed to bring anything over.


Considering the UK has always had strict gun policies... it does make you wonder where all the guns that are obviously here in abundance come from?
Manchester, London, Birmingham, Liverpool.... you can buy guns from all these places pretty dam easy. Anything from hand guns to assault rifles to Macs.... it's frightening!! Oddly enough it's the bullets that are difficult to get.....and cost the most!
So come on guys....where do you think they come from..... Army, Police???
I can't imagine anybody wanting to chance smuggling AK47's into the UK.. 
(10 years for a couple of hundred quid) But you can buy them....They're here!


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## Hurricane (Aug 12, 2007)

ricardo blue said:


> Considering the UK has always had strict gun policies... it does make you wonder where all the guns that are obviously here in abundance come from?
> Manchester, London, Birmingham, Liverpool.... you can buy guns from all these places pretty dam easy. Anything from hand guns to assault rifles to Macs.... it's frightening!! Oddly enough it's the bullets that are difficult to get.....and cost the most!
> So come on guys....where do you think they come from..... Army, Police???
> I can't imagine anybody wanting to chance smuggling AK47's into the UK..
> (10 years for a couple of hundred quid) But you can buy them....They're here!


We don't grow any heroine or cocaine but we are one of the highest consumers in the world of both.


Things can be brought in to the country in any number of ways, its finding the weak links that is the challenge.


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## ricardo blue (Jun 6, 2007)

Hurricane said:


> We don't grow any heroine or cocaine but we are one of the highest consumers in the world of both.
> 
> 
> Things can be brought in to the country in any number of ways, its finding the weak links that is the challenge.


Although I don't condone it in any way, shape or form, I can understand why someone would risk trying to smuggle class A drugs into the country due to the substantial ammounts of money to be made from them.
Guns though?? I think not... and definately not on the availabillity scale that they seem to be on. I see a documentary on tv not long ago which was about guns on our streets... One youth said sometimes it's easier to buy a piece (gun) than it is to buy a wrap of heroine! Athough probably exagerated it was still a daunting thought 
If you were looking to smuggle anything into Britain... you would not choose guns. The profitable margins do not out-weigh the risks of getting caught, and considering the penalties are similar.... you would choose to smuggle drugs!
So with this said..... where do the guns come from?


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## Hurricane (Aug 12, 2007)

ricardo blue said:


> Although I don't condone it in any way, shape or form, I can understand why someone would risk trying to smuggle class A drugs into the country due to the substantial ammounts of money to be made from them.
> Guns though?? I think not... and definately not on the availabillity scale that they seem to be on. I see a documentary on tv not long ago which was about guns on our streets... One youth said sometimes it's easier to buy a piece (gun) than it is to buy a wrap of heroine! Athough probably exagerated it was still a daunting thought
> If you were looking to smuggle anything into Britain... you would not choose guns. The profitable margins do not out-weigh the risks of getting caught, and considering the penalties are similar.... you would choose to smuggle drugs!
> So with this said..... where do the guns come from?


Sadly I know the types of people who do have dealings with drugs and believe me, guns get brought in at the same time, they only bring in a few, and we are not talking AK47's here, we are talking handguns, some small enough to fit in the palm of a hand, but deadly enough.

I tend not to believe the hype peddled by the media of all forms, there are now swathes of swarthy men shooting up our villages, but it is unbelievably easy to smuggle things into this country.

One point of access, and it always has been, is the Norfolk coast, and its somewhere I know very well and up there, if you hear a boat, late at night, you keep your mouth shut.


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## ricardo blue (Jun 6, 2007)

Hurricane said:


> Sadly I know the types of people who do have dealings with drugs and believe me, guns get brought in at the same time, they only bring in a few, and we are not talking AK47's here, we are talking handguns, some small enough to fit in the palm of a hand, but deadly enough.
> 
> I tend not to believe the hype peddled by the media of all forms, there are now swathes of swarthy men shooting up our villages, but it is unbelievably easy to smuggle things into this country.
> 
> One point of access, and it always has been, is the Norfolk coast, and its somewhere I know very well and up there, if you hear a boat, late at night, you keep your mouth shut.


 Bad state of affairs eh? In my day it was just petrol bombs, axes, knuckle dusters and knives..........lol
Seriously though Hurrican.. you say you know some people who might be able to get me some drugs?...............lol. (only joking moderator folk)...


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## Hurricane (Aug 12, 2007)

ricardo blue said:


> Bad state of affairs eh? In my day it was just petrol bombs, axes, knuckle dusters and knives..........lol
> Seriously though Hurrican.. you say you know some people who might be able to get me some drugs?...............lol. (only joking moderator folk)...


I'm too far away from you I suspect.


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## hells_bells110 (Mar 23, 2008)

*We don't want guns and knives that's why*

Allowing people to carry guns and knives will only lead to trouble. Don't ever want them to be legal here, if you feel threatened you have to call the police and let them deal with it.

It's not about not allowing freedom, it's about living in a safe community.


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## Big Pete (Aug 7, 2007)

Tonyservices said:


> Guns are bad full stop. I hope we never allow ownership of guns for protection. Just look at the latest, that young teenage boy who accidently killed his little sister, he has to live with that mistake forever not just the jail term he has been given. And i am glad the courts decided to punish the fool parent who thought it was a good idea to keep one of these things in the house.
> Sorry but i *had to pull myself back from a full blown rant then*.


Dont pull back go for it , you will feel better after trust me


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## learn2shoot (May 22, 2008)

> Guns are bad full stop.


This is completely and entirely a load of bunk. Guns are imatimate objects incapable of good or bad. It is the criminals who are bad. I am disturbed when ever I see this garbage. Guns in America are incredibly safe only a .02% injust rate, another way of saying this is that 99.98% of guns in America never are used to hurt anyone.

The gun bans in UK and Australia are complete failures, the thugs have not been hindered in obtaining weapons and the increases in crime are proof of this. What the UK and Australia (and places in US like D.C. New York and Chicago) need is relaxed gun laws - allowing good people to have arms for self protection. 

Please read "More Guns Less Crime" by John Lott


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

learn2shoot said:


> This is completely and entirely a load of bunk. Guns are imatimate objects incapable of good or bad. It is the criminals who are bad. I am disturbed when ever I see this garbage. Guns in America are incredibly safe only a .02% injust rate, another way of saying this is that 99.98% of guns in America never are used to hurt anyone.


Well I'm sure if you tell all the parents and families of the school kids that are mindlesssly blown away every year by youngsters practicing their rights to bear arms and kill everyone with them, they'll be tremendously reassured!!!!


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## learn2shoot (May 22, 2008)

> Well I'm sure if you tell all the parents and families of the school kids that are mindlesssly blown away every year by youngsters practicing their rights to bear arms and kill everyone with them, they'll be tremendously reassured!!!!


Ok... people are killed; I know this; we all know this - people are killed in every country in the world by *******s bent on killing and some of those killed are children. This happens regardless of the laws. 

But, I guess you FEEL better because if guns are banned - then at least you can say that "Hey, let's ban them more" If one teacher or adult staff was armed at Virginia Tech or at Dunblane then perhaps the carnage would be less. Mass rampage shootings in the US *ONLY* happen in gun-free zones - Why? Because if someone is armed they can stop them - the police canont be everywhere at all times. 

These children could have been saved if someone had the ability to actually save them (with a gun *gasp*) they would not need re-assuring, they would have their children. 

Tell me what would you do if you were to witness a madman killing school children? - You would wish there was someone there... with a GUN to stop him - that is why people call the police - because when they come they bring guns.

The willingness of the anti-gun / anti-self-protection groups to accept killings like this - JUST so they can promote their agenda sickens me. Your ability to say "think of the children..." is a distastefull argument. I don't want people to be hurt, but to say that banning people from arms is a useful tool is really setting yourself up for failure.


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

learn2shoot said:


> Tell me what would you do if you were to witness a madman killing school children? - You would wish there was someone there... with a GUN to stop him - that is why people call the police - because when they come they bring guns.


I think we are missing the point here ..... if the guns were not readily available to these kids in the first place then the situation would occur less, if at all.

In the UK we have an increasing number of shootings, thats for sure. But we have very few massacres with people going into the workplace or going into schools and letting fly with automatic rifles or whatever. Afaik in the UK its very difficult to get a licence for an automatic. Here Guns have to be securely kept and locked and there are very strict controls. In the States it seems that anyone can get hold of a gun. Thats the difference. Thats maybe .... just maybe, why we are seeing such horrors in the US ..... and if guns were readily available in the UK then I have no doubt we would be seeing the same there ..... knives are already a huge problem.


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## Ogri750 (Feb 14, 2008)

It still staggers me when I see the American need/desire/yearning for firearms.

Times have moved on since the days of Jesse James and Billy the Kid. The US needed to realise this many years ago and repealed their gun laws.

I have been a member of shooting clubs (both small and large calibre), I have used shotguns, I was a member of HM Forces and as such was well versed in using firearms, but I have no desire whatsoever for firearms to be readily available in the UK to the general public.

The arguement that if I have a gun I can stop that person with their gun only leads to the other person then getting a bigger gun, and so the whole thing perpetuates.

Just my thoughts


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## HarvInSTL (May 25, 2008)

Stravinsky said:


> I think we are missing the point here ..... if the guns were not readily available to these kids in the first place then the situation would occur less, if at all.
> 
> In the UK we have an increasing number of shootings, thats for sure. But we have very few massacres with people going into the workplace or going into schools and letting fly with automatic rifles or whatever. Afaik in the UK its very difficult to get a licence for an automatic. Here Guns have to be securely kept and locked and there are very strict controls. In the States it seems that anyone can get hold of a gun. Thats the difference. Thats maybe .... just maybe, why we are seeing such horrors in the US ..... and if guns were readily available in the UK then I have no doubt we would be seeing the same there ..... knives are already a huge problem.


I think you may be missing the point as well. The point is that banning or heavily regulating firearms will not AND has not stopped criminals from obtaining and using firearms.

You even stated yourself that the UK has seen an increasing number of shootings, so please explain to me how the banning/heavily regulating of firearms in the UK can be seen as effective if there is an increasing number of shootings?

The fact remains that if a criminal is going to commit a crime with a firearm, he/she will do so no matter the laws in effect.

And while I understand your opinon that anyone in the US can obtain a firearm. Legally that isn't correct. There are federal background checks that must take place before a hand gun can be sold legally, as well some states have local background checks as well. I know that when I purchased my last hand gun in Missouri I was required to prove that I own and will use a gun lock before I could even get my permit to purchase one.

Sure anyone could purchase a hand gun illegally if they like, but the same would hold true for just about any other country on this earth.


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

HarvInSTL said:


> I think you may be missing the point as well. The point is that banning or heavily regulating firearms will not AND has not stopped criminals from obtaining and using firearms.
> 
> You even stated yourself that the UK has seen an increasing number of shootings, so please explain to me how the banning/heavily regulating of firearms in the UK can be seen as effective if there is an increasing number of shootings?
> 
> ...


My point is ..... that even with very very strict gun controls shootings are on the increase. Without gun controls we too will have unhappy workers killing all their work colleagues, vigilantes forming groups, kids walking into schools and shooting their classmates and so on and so on. It is, as far as I know, extremely difficult if not impossible to get a licence for anything other than a single shot gun here, whereas (and correct me if I'm wrong please) its not difficult to get one in the US. Why would someone want one, thats what I cant understand. 

That arguement about making things legal will reduce the problem has been used so many times on so many things including drugs, and the truth rarely mirrors the theory.

No ..... I'm glad to say that I'm pretty sure the day will never come in the UK when its a legal right to bear arms ..... and if it does there will be some severe crap taking place there not long afterwards.


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## Hurricane (Aug 12, 2007)

anyone else getting giddy?


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## Fatbrit (May 8, 2008)

Ogri750 said:


> The US needed to realise this many years ago and repealed their gun laws.


Repealing an amendment is no easy task, though the second is up in the Supreme Court this summer for possible reinterpretation. Given the make-up of the current court, however, I don't see any further restriction.


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## Fatbrit (May 8, 2008)

learn2shoot said:


> - allowing good people to have arms for self protection.


Britain ain't America and American ain't Britain You may eventually work it out when you get there.


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## jlms (May 15, 2008)

*Complete failures?*



learn2shoot said:


> This is completely and entirely a load of bunk. Guns are imatimate objects incapable of good or bad. It is the criminals who are bad. I am disturbed when ever I see this garbage. Guns in America are incredibly safe only a .02% injust rate, another way of saying this is that 99.98% of guns in America never are used to hurt anyone.
> 
> The gun bans in UK and Australia are complete failures, the thugs have not been hindered in obtaining weapons and the increases in crime are proof of this. What the UK and Australia (and places in US like D.C. New York and Chicago) need is relaxed gun laws - allowing good people to have arms for self protection.
> 
> Please read "More Guns Less Crime" by John Lott


Where in this world people kill each other like if there was a war zone? Hint: it is not in the UK.

The rates of mortality due to guns in the US and the UK are not even comparable. Ths us is an order of magnitude more dangerous and violent. In the UK hand gun violence does not even factor in the radar of dangerous things. The same can't be asy about the US.

You can come with all this nonsense about the guns being just objects, but it stands to reason that tools made to facilitate the harming of others will in no way become an incentive to inflict harm.

We in the UK live very happy without the need to "defend ourselves", we can deal with our problems without the fetishistic attachment to guns. The social situation is completely different, in the US there are many people that are isolated so it is understandable, up to a point, the fondness for guns, but in the UK, being a small island where distances are short and the density o population is higher, the dangers of being on your own are much smaller.

And this country rightly revolted when the major incident of random shooting of school children took place. Rightly or wrongly this country moved and reacted trying to stop such incidents (so far with success). The US in the other hand has done pretty much nothing, the precious "freedom" to bear arms may have costed the lives of many innocent people in random shootings in recent years.

We don't need that in the UK, thank you very much.


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