# Bills



## karenangell (Feb 6, 2011)

Hi to all. Was wondering if any of you could inform me of what the electric bills are like in spain, also water rates and rates for the year in comparison to england. We are coming over in aug 2012 and renting a three bed townhouse. We currently spend most of our income on bills as its so expensive with the council tax coming in at £120 per month, and our water bills are approx 70 a month and gas and electric £300 per quarter. 

Many thanks


karen angell


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

karenangell said:


> Hi to all. Was wondering if any of you could inform me of what the electric bills are like in spain, also water rates and rates for the year in comparison to england. We are coming over in aug 2012 and renting a three bed townhouse. We currently spend most of our income on bills as its so expensive with the council tax coming in at £120 per month, and our water bills are approx 70 a month and gas and electric £300 per quarter.
> 
> Many thanks
> 
> karen angell


Council tax could well be the same... But per year! For a family of four our water is maybe 30-40 a month. Gas & electricity around 150 a month.


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## karenangell (Feb 6, 2011)

The gas and electricity is quite expensiv e then? i thought the electric would be the most expensive. Water rates is quite expensive too. I t seems that the council tax is the only thing thats more cheaper considerably.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

karenangell said:


> The gas and electricity is quite expensiv e then? i thought the electric would be the most expensive. Water rates is quite expensive too. I t seems that the council tax is the only thing thats more cheaper considerably.


Yes and obviously it depends on whether you have aircon, central heating, open fire, gas heaters, private pool etc. etc. Electricity prices have increased exponentially in the past couple of years.
It's certainly not as cheap here as it once was.


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## Seb* (Mar 22, 2009)

We are living in a small 3 bedroom house (100 sqm) with two people and some pets. We are carefull with heating and energy usage. That's what we roughly pay depending on time of the year (aircon and heating in summer/winter):

1.) electricity ~70 EUR / a month
2.) water 10-15 EUR / a month
3.) gas 250 EUR / 12-15 months
4.) council tax 500 EUR / year
5.) telephone+internet 70 EUR / a month


This can differ on area you live and life style, most houses down here are hard to heat and if you are used to have a really warm house the costs can literally explode, in the first year, we blew gas worth 250 EUR within 3-4 weeks. We don't heat more than 2-3 months a year, other people might need more


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Seb* said:


> We are living in a small 3 bedroom house (100 sqm) with two people and some pets. We are carefull with heating and energy usage. That's what we roughly pay depending on time of the year (aircon and heating in summer/winter):
> 
> 1.) electricity ~70 EUR / a month
> 2.) water 10-15 EUR / a month
> ...


Yes that's a very good point, Council tax will vary dramatically depending exactly where you live.......safe to say it will almost certainly be less than the UK though.
We found we were more careful with gas when we had bottled gas. Electricity is costly though........as of course is internet and phone, which often comes as quite a shock to newcomers.


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## 90199 (Mar 21, 2010)

Depends where you are in Spain, we live in the Canary Islands, where, because of our very low vat 5%, most things are cheaper

Electricity daily, €1.8 cents daily

Water about €8 monthly

Diesel 92 cent a litre, but cheaper on the larger islands.

Council rates €460 annually

Gas nothing, don't use it

Heating nothing, don't need it

Telephone internet and cable T.V. 71 euros monthly

Local beer 1.50 to 2 € a 500 mil glass which is nearly a pint.

Clothing here is not cheap, far cheaper using the internet.

The other downside is that there aren't any pork pies, in fact no pies or pasties at all, blooming savages eat empanadas filled with tuna fish and other concoctions


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

karenangell said:


> The gas and electricity is quite expensiv e then? i thought the electric would be the most expensive. Water rates is quite expensive too. I t seems that the council tax is the only thing thats more cheaper considerably.


Two of us in a 4 bed villa and pool

Electricity €40 pm in summer, €90 - €110 pm in the winter 3 months
"Council Tax" €410 a year
Water about €20 a month
Logs €100 a year
Car tax 2 lit 4 x 4, €105 a year, Insurance €480 a year
Telephone & Internet €69 pm


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## karenangell (Feb 6, 2011)

ok thank you all very much for your replies, I think in general we will be better off. Just wanted to get an insight into how much everything was. I know the that it depends on where you are etc, as its the same as in england. We will live in nerja southern spain, at first and if we like it would probably settle there or maybe outskirts of nerja, eg frigliana, malo, other surrounding areas. Thank you for you your feedback.

kind regards

karen angell


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

We are in a 3 bed detached house in a village. Our bills this year were approximately as follows:

Council tax plus sewerage: €600
Water €120 (we don´t have a swimming pool)
Electricity €1000
Gas (bottled, used for cooking and hot water) €200
Rubbish disposal €50
Telephone and internet €750

Hope that´s useful.


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## Cazzy (Nov 23, 2008)

We have a large 4 bed village house with a pool in Seville province
Electric if we are careful 100 euro a month
Council tax 600 a year
Gas for heating 750 a year
Water 150 a year, but we use a well for the pool and garden
Rubbish 70 euro a year
Telephone and internet 50 euro a month
Logs 120 euro a year
House insurance 200 euro a year


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## karenangell (Feb 6, 2011)

Yes thank you very much very helpful. 
Everyone is so helpful on this forum, which is a good thing when they know they were in the same boat before they went to live in another country its scary and dauntingbut also very exciting!


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## lynn (Sep 25, 2008)

karenangell said:


> Yes thank you very much very helpful.
> Everyone is so helpful on this forum, which is a good thing when they know they were in the same boat before they went to live in another country its scary and dauntingbut also very exciting!


If you are renting, you shouldn't be paying 'council tax'.... We rent and pay just for water (which is metered) and electricity. As others have said, the costs are high for energy, so it can be much more economical living in a house with a communal pool and terraces rather than a garden that needs watering loads! The internet is expensive in Spain. We now pay 36.99 euros pm for a 3mb service (iva excluded). Car tax is much cheaper, and car insurance is good value as it includes roadside assistance. Coastal locations are 'warmer' during the winter than inland, and although there are no frosts, houses can feel cold because they are not really geared up for winters - no carpets, central heating and large windows letting out the heat. Make sure you pack your woolies and hot water bottles as you'll get lots of use out of them!


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## Lucie123 (Dec 7, 2011)

Great thread and info. can i ask about dental costs and house insurance


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Lucie123 said:


> Great thread and info. can i ask about dental costs and house insurance


My dentist charges €40 for a filling, €200 per tooth for a bridge. I had an NHS dentist in the UK so I don't know how that compares. Some health insurance policies cover dentistry.

House insurance - about the same as in the UK.


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## Cazzy (Nov 23, 2008)

All dental work is "private", but not as expensive as the UK. I payed 22 euro for a check up and clean the other day. Our house insurance is 200 euro a year for contents and bricks and mortar.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Stravinsky said:


> Two of us in a 4 bed villa and pool
> 
> Electricity €40 pm in summer, €90 - €110 pm in the winter 3 months
> "Council Tax" €410 a year
> ...


I think I've posted before about your electricity bills compared to mine. 
Our house is roughly similar to yours yet our bills are around 180 euros a month all year round.
We heat the water, cook and run the usual appliances plus swimming pool pump and overflow pump.
WE don't need air con and we don't often use electricity to heat.
Ours is a spacious house with high ceilings but I think you said yours is too.....


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## gus-lopez (Jan 4, 2010)

A lot of things ,like car tax vary from local council to local council. Mines dearer than the UK. Then again my council tax is 16€ a year.
Total outgoings for everything less diesel ,food & tobacco are around 230€ a month.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

mrypg9 said:


> I think I've posted before about your electricity bills compared to mine.
> Our house is roughly similar to yours yet our bills are around 180 euros a month all year round.
> We heat the water, cook and run the usual appliances plus swimming pool pump and overflow pump.
> WE don't need air con and we don't often use electricity to heat.
> Ours is a spacious house with high ceilings but I think you said yours is too.....


What potencia are you on? It will be printed on the bill. We are on 4.6kW and bills average 90 euros a month including electric radiators in winter. Maybe you´re on a higher rate than you need?


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## CapnBilly (Jun 7, 2011)

mrypg9 said:


> I think I've posted before about your electricity bills compared to mine.
> Our house is roughly similar to yours yet our bills are around 180 euros a month all year round.
> We heat the water, cook and run the usual appliances plus swimming pool pump and overflow pump.
> WE don't need air con and we don't often use electricity to heat.
> Ours is a spacious house with high ceilings but I think you said yours is too.....


Are you sure you're not paying to light the street. Our house sounds similar to yours. Our potencies is 9.2kw and electric usuage is similar. We have 4 air con units we use for heat in winter. Our bills average about €125 a month. 

As an example today we used two radiators to heat two bedrooms for about 4 hours, and ran two aircon units for about 10 hours each ( we leave them on all the time as its more economical). We used about 38 kwh of electric which on day night tariff is about €5 a day. On a day when we don't use aircon or hearing we use on average about 25 kwh. 

If I were you I would check my meter reading each day at the same time to see how much you're using.


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## gus-lopez (Jan 4, 2010)

It's the swimming pool pump running up that bill. 
I looked after a friends house that was up for sale & they insisted that the pool was kept running all over winter . even on a timer it was costing 100€ a month !!. Nothing else in the place running. The higher the potencia , the higher the standing charge.


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## agua642 (May 24, 2009)

Are the tarrifs lower on night time tarrif, I heard a rumor that the night time tarrif is lower when contracted but day time tarrif goes up from what it was previously before contracting night- time tarrif. Confused.com...


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## Lucie123 (Dec 7, 2011)

What sort of houses do u have (the ones that have listed the cost of gas etc. ) are certain style houses cheaper to heat than others. ie a new build villa rather than an old house in a village

and i guess theres lots of diff tarrifs that u sign upto rather than just paying as u use?


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## Cazzy (Nov 23, 2008)

Lucie123 said:


> What sort of houses do u have (the ones that have listed the cost of gas etc. ) are certain style houses cheaper to heat than others. ie a new build villa rather than an old house in a village
> 
> and i guess theres lots of diff tarrifs that u sign upto rather than just paying as u use?


Our gas is expensive but we have an AGA cooker that runs on it and heats the house. Spain is a lot more expensive to live in than a lot of people realise.


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## Cazzy (Nov 23, 2008)

Lucie123 said:


> What sort of houses do u have (the ones that have listed the cost of gas etc. ) are certain style houses cheaper to heat than others. ie a new build villa rather than an old house in a village
> 
> and i guess theres lots of diff tarrifs that u sign upto rather than just paying as u use?



As for tariffs there aren't really any, you pay for what you use. Usually before you get the bill!!! Our gas is bottled not many areas have the piped variety.


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## Lucie123 (Dec 7, 2011)

I guess its swings and roundabouts as the huge council tax bills in the uk lessens xtra cost for things like electricty and phones


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Electricty tarrifs are based on useage and agreed useage. For example, if you sign up for 5.2 and use 6.2, the extra is charged at a higher rate. If you sign up for higher, the unit cost goes up. there is a cheaper overnight thing I believe, but I dont know anything about it! I found it horrednously complicated and in the end I would say that electricity costs about the same as the UK. Gas in general isnt laid to the mains in Spain, so you buy the bottles, which I think are cheaper than bottles in the UK.

Houses in Spain dont tend to have the same insulation or central heating. They are also full of tiles (all floors are tiled and carpets are rare) which feel cold. The houses are built for the summer - not the winter - obviously this is a generalisation

Jo xxx


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

mrypg9 said:


> I think I've posted before about your electricity bills compared to mine.
> Our house is roughly similar to yours yet our bills are around 180 euros a month all year round.
> We heat the water, cook and run the usual appliances plus swimming pool pump and overflow pump.
> WE don't need air con and we don't often use electricity to heat.
> Ours is a spacious house with high ceilings but I think you said yours is too.....



No not really high ceilings. We dont use the air con to heat, and the pool only runs for an hour a day. Thats all it needs, and I doscovered long ago that leaving it on for 4 or 5 hours is (a) pointless and (b) expensive

As a rule we only heat the upstairs in winter. Usually in the day it is an oil fired radiator or two, and in the evening its the log fire.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Stravinsky said:


> No not really high ceilings. We dont use the air con to heat, and the pool only runs for an hour a day. Thats all it needs, and I doscovered long ago that leaving it on for 4 or 5 hours is (a) pointless and (b) expensive
> 
> As a rule we only heat the upstairs in winter. Usually in the day it is an oil fired radiator or two, and in the evening its the log fire.


So...I'll put the pool on Manual and switch it on only for one hour continuous per day....
After two months (our bills come bi-monthly) I'll check the difference.

Thanks


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Alcalaina said:


> What potencia are you on? It will be printed on the bill. We are on 4.6kW and bills average 90 euros a month including electric radiators in winter. Maybe you´re on a higher rate than you need?



Thanks...I'll get the bills out and peruse.

But if it is higher maybe it's because of the pool??

Just looked...
The bill states:

Potencia 13,856kw x61 dias x 0,073059euro/kw y dia
Recargo poten. por ausencia ICP 6,144kw X61 dias x0,087049 euro/dia



Looks as if our Potencia contratada is 13,856kw.
Is that what we need?


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

This is my last two months' bill from ENDESA


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## CapnBilly (Jun 7, 2011)

mrypg9 said:


> So...I'll put the pool on Manual and switch it on only for one hour continuous per day....
> After two months (our bills come bi-monthly) I'll check the difference.
> 
> Thanks


Assuming it's a standard pool (8x4) and not heated then it will probably have a 0.75 hp pump which uses about 550 watts an hour so if you currently run it for 3 hours a day then by running it for 1 hour you will use about 1 kwh less per day. A larger pool (10x5) will probably have 1 hp so about 650 watts. 

Just a point on filtering. In the winter an hour a day is fine, but as the water temperature increases you should increase the filtering ( if it's being used) as although it will look clean, there will be Bactria in the water. In the winter I run mine for an hour, but when the water temperature goes over 18 I start to increase it by an hour for every 2. Degrees upto a maximum time of 6 hours in July/August


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

CapnBilly said:


> Assuming it's a standard pool (8x4) and not heated then it will probably have a 0.75 hp pump which uses about 550 watts an hour so if you currently run it for 3 hours a day then by running it for 1 hour you will use about 1 kwh less per day. A larger pool (10x5) will probably have 1 hp so about 650 watts.
> 
> Just a point on filtering. In the winter an hour a day is fine, but as the water temperature increases you should increase the filtering ( if it's being used) as although it will look clean, there will be Bactria in the water. In the winter I run mine for an hour, but when the water temperature goes over 18 I start to increase it by an hour for every 2. Degrees upto a maximum time of 6 hours in July/August


Thanks for that, Cap'n....
I'm not sure about filtering but I'll ask the guy who does the garden to take a look.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

So your potencia is 61,75 plus tax for a 13.8 kW contract, ours is just 15€ for a 4.6kW contract. That´s before you´ve used any electricity at all.

Add up the kW value of all the appliances that might be on at the same time, and see what you really need (it will be printed on each appliance). If it is much less than 13, you might want to ask your landlord to change it, but there will be a charge.

Ours used to be 3 kW but the power would go if we plugged in the kettle while the oven and radiators were on. Since we upgraded it´s been fine.


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## CapnBilly (Jun 7, 2011)

mrypg9 said:


> Thanks for that, Cap'n....
> I'm not sure about filtering but I'll ask the guy who does the garden to take a look.


It's filtering when the pumps running. The pump extracts the water and pushes it through the filter back into the pool. The sand (or glass) in the filter catches the debris , bacteria etc and cleans the water. A 0.75 hp pump will usually filter about 17 m3 of water per hour, so all the water in an 8x4 will be filtered in 3 hours


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## CapnBilly (Jun 7, 2011)

mrypg9 said:


> This is my last two months' bill from ENDESA


Couple of observations about your bill - 

I agree with Alcalaina´s observation about your potencia. We live in a 3 bedroom villa, with all the usual appliances including 4 aircon units, water heater, dryer, 3 computers and 3 tellys, 3 dvd players and 2 sky boxes, and swimming pool pump. Our potencia is 9.2kw and only once in 5 years has it tripped. This in the winter when we had all 4 aircon units on heating, the oven and washer were on, and it tripped when I put the dryer on. I worked out we were potentially drawing 15kw. 

You are being charged a surcharge (about €32 plus iva) for not having an ICP. This is effectively a trip switch. To overcome this surcharge I think you woud have to have one fitted and approved. I´m not sure of the cost, but depending on your wiring it could be upto €300 - you would have to get some information from an electrician.

You are on a day night tariff, which is good, but your usuage needs proper management. Your current split is 50 - 50. I am also on this type of tariff, and my historical usuage is generally around 35 - 65 (night - day). Night is defined as from 10pm until 12pm in the winter (11pm until 1pm in summer). On the night tariff you are being charged €0.07, whereas on the day it is €0.16. Management means using high use appliances on the night tariff. For example we always put our washing in first thing in the morning, or late at night. The same applies to the dishwasher. We also have our water heater on a timer which comes on at 5am and off at 12pm, so it heats up fully for the morning showers etc, and again afterwards, and then its hot for use the rest of the day. We never run out of water. Taking the example of the water heater, its a 3kw heater, so for every hour it´s on it costs €0.30 per day more on the day tariff, so that about €10 a month. As I think youve already identified your use is very high. ´Looking at my bills your total kwh usuage is consistently about 30% higher than mine (and believe me we don´t skimp - in the winter when we´re in the house we heat it to about 22c all the time). It´s about 7kwh per day. As I said earlier are you sure you´re not lighting the street.


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## CapnBilly (Jun 7, 2011)

CapnBilly said:


> Your current split is 50 - 50. I am also on this type of tariff, and my historical usuage is generally around 35 - 65 (night - day).
> 
> 
> CapnBilly said:
> ...


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## gus-lopez (Jan 4, 2010)

If you've got cheap rate electricity the swimming pool pump should only ever be running during that period ; Along with everything else that it's possible to use in this period. 
At some point Endesa should have notified whoever the factura's name is in stating that if an ICP wasn't/isn't fitted then you'd be charged at the 20kw standing charge rate. It is possible that you do have an ICP as there records aren't that good . If you haven't & need one fitted they were installing for 10€ a while back. The problem is if the house doesn't comply with the requirements of the 2007+ regulations you could be in for a large re-wiring bill to obtain the new boletin which, in theory , would be down to the landlord.

Most people I know on the dual tariff do everything in the period at low rate , one couple even change to a gas kettle outside the cheap rate period !


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Thanks all of you for your help. Very much appreciated and I shall do as you all suggest.
Pump will now run for one hour per night.
I'm pretty sure we have a trip switch. 
So....I guess I have to contact Endesa and ask for the potencia to be reduced to 9.2kw and ask them to inspect the wiring.
Is this best done by visiting the local office or by phone/letter?


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

CapnBilly said:


> -
> 
> As I said earlier are you sure you´re not lighting the street.



Would that we were.....
Our street and neighbouring streets seem to operate on a one-on, one -off basis.
Every other night the whole area is plunged into total darkness.
No wonder there's been a recent spate of break-ins round here.
Our friend Juan told us he phoned the police last Thursday as he saw a gang breaking into a house. The police caught them. They were all Spanish but people seem to automatically blame Eastern Europeans.
Ours is a neighbourhood of largeish houses but they are fairly old and occupied by 'ordinary' families, not wealthy immigrants. Our immediate neighbours are a truckdriver and a school teacher.
People are so fed up they are considering going en masse to see the Alcalde.
I'm wondering if a Neighbourhood WAtch scheme would work here.
Anyway, I digress...as usual.


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## CapnBilly (Jun 7, 2011)

mrypg9 said:


> Thanks all of you for your help. Very much appreciated and I shall do as you all suggest.
> Pump will now run for one hour per night.
> I'm pretty sure we have a trip switch.
> So....I guess I have to contact Endesa and ask for the potencia to be reduced to 9.2kw and ask them to inspect the wiring.
> Is this best done by visiting the local office or by phone/letter?


You probably have atrip switch, but an ICP is a trip switch that stops you drawing more than your potencia. Properties built form I think 2006 have them installed by law, but until recently it wasn't an issue in older properties, until they were allowed to charge extra. There a good explanation about it here, and what might need to be done, and although it relates to Iberdrola, the same applies to Endesa.

Sparks In Spain: ICP


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

mrypg9 said:


> So....I guess I have to contact Endesa and ask for the potencia to be reduced to 9.2kw and ask them to inspect the wiring.
> Is this best done by visiting the local office or by phone/letter?


Is the contract in your name or the landlord's? I think they will need to issue a new contract, they did when they changed ours and it cost about €60.


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## Sirtravelot (Jul 20, 2011)

Is it just me, or does internet in Spain seem quite expensive?

Also, do you guys know if Infra-red heaters are popular in Spain?


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Sirtravelot said:


> Is it just me, or does internet in Spain seem quite expensive?
> 
> Also, do you guys know if Infra-red heaters are popular in Spain?


no, it's not you - it _is_ expensive

no idea about infra red heaters though


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Alcalaina said:


> Is the contract in your name or the landlord's? I think they will need to issue a new contract, they did when they changed ours and it cost about €60.


It's in Adelbert's name and he will pay for it.


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## Cazzy (Nov 23, 2008)

Internet is very expensive, we had an infra-red heater and it was useless!!


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## gus-lopez (Jan 4, 2010)

If you look at this picture it shows the ICP on the left.
https://www.iberdrola.es/webibd/corporativa/iberdrola?IDPAG=ENWEBCLIEMPASELIMINT

If you have got one of these already then they shouldn't be charging you. All they are charging you for on the 2nd line 'abscence of power limiter ' is the difference between your contracted 9,2kw & 20kw. I.E. for an additional 6,2kw standing charge.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Have just asked a Spanish friend who owns a property agency to help...he is sending an electrician around to inspect our set-up and determine whether we can switch Potencia and instal ICP. If so, he estimates a saving of around 60 euros a month, more if we are prudent. This would reduce our bills to around 120 euros a month.
Thanks all of you for your advice

Just one more question: so....night tariff is from 10pm to 12 noon in winter and an hour later in summer (presumably summer means April..), is that correct?


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## CapnBilly (Jun 7, 2011)

mrypg9 said:


> Just one more question: so....night tariff is from 10pm to 12 noon in winter and an hour later in summer (presumably summer means April..), is that correct?


It changes when you change the clocks so its easy to remember 10pm until 12pm until 25th March 2012 and then 11pm until 1pm until 28th October 2012


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## Sirtravelot (Jul 20, 2011)

Cazzy said:


> Internet is very expensive, we had an infra-red heater and it was useless!!


Really? How come? It just didn't heat, did it?


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## djhep (Feb 26, 2011)

Hi all.
A bit off topic, but relevent to the discussion...

There is a thread running at the moment regarding mould on walls, where the cost of running an a/c unit to keep house dry and mould free is thought to be too expensive.

To really monitor what electric you are using, there is a meter that you can buy from most of the big DIY stores in UK, and can be fitted in half an hour or so. (approx cost 30 euros)

This constantly monitors what kw/h you are using at any one time.
It's very accurate, and it's possible to see the usage going up and down when switching on/off a single light bulb.
It will also tell you your previous day/week/month/quarter/year usage
It's possible to programme in the cost of your electric / kwh, and can then tell you what your bill should be.


My shock moment came when i realised how much power my halogen ceiling lights are using.  Have now changed to LED's
Pleasant suprise was how much my a/c units cost to run / day. 
My largest draws 440 watts/ hr. (60cents / 10 hrs)


Best Regards.

Dave.


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## stevelin (Apr 25, 2009)

Have looked at one of these but not sure if it would work as we have 3 phase not sure where to fit it ?


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