# Post-Brexit residence permit



## vianina (Feb 25, 2020)

Hello all,
According to the European Commission website, before the end of the transition period the 5-year EU registo certificate needs to be traded in for a residence permit to be issued under the law on aliens (Lei nº. 23/2007). That gives us until 31 December 2020. Am I right in thinking that nothing has been said yet about how this is meant to happen?
Obrigada


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## RichardHenshall (Jul 26, 2009)

Could you share a link to where you read this?


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## vianina (Feb 25, 2020)

As a new member I am unfortunately not yet allowed to post links. But if you search for "UK nationals' residence rights EU27" you should find the relevant page.

Under "Portugal", the following is stated, but now I see that it refers to the no-deal scenario:

"Portugal
I am a UK national living in Portugal. In case of a no-deal scenario, what should I do to keep my residence rights after Brexit date? When should I do it?

Portugal will protect your residence rights through transitional measures that will be applicable until 31/12/2020. Your residence document is needed to prove these rights. Otherwise, a requirement procedure will be open to prove your residence.

a) If you already have a residence document issued under EU free movement law, this will be considered as your temporary residence permit until 31/12/2020. During this transitional period, you will have to apply for a new residence permit, according to the national legislation (Lei nº. 23/2007, of 4 July)."

I am still not clear whether under the Withdrawal Agreement the registo simply remains valid for its 5-year term, or whether it will nevertheless need to be exchanged. Anyone?


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## vianina (Feb 25, 2020)

Also, this is the reply Portugal's technical experts provided to the European Commission regarding Brexit preparedness:

"PT (replied 2019.01.15, updated 2019.01.18)
a). Portugal intends to approve specific legislation that grants special conditions, from 30.03.2019 to 31.12.2020, to UK citizens and their family members living in PT before the withdrawal date, converting registration certificates issued under Directive 2004/38/CE into residence permits issued in the common format of Regulation (EC) 1030/2002. 
In the foreseen procedure, the requirements demanded to nationals of third countries will be replaced by a declaration of honour. The residence permits will be issued according to the previous time of residence in the country.
Registration certificates will be recognized during this transition period, and although registration in Portugal is mandatory, UK citizens living in Portugal are already being advised to register in case they still have not done it. 
After the withdrawal data, UK citizens that have not register but that can prove they were living in Portugal before 29.03.2019 may also request the residence permit under this special procedure.
b). Portuguese Immigration and Borders Service is assessing the human resources and equipment needs having in mind the opening of decentralized offices, at municipal level, wherever there is a relevant number of UK residents. 
At the border control, PT is considering to extend the possibility to use the automated identification departure system – RAPID4all – to the British citizens as it is already used by other third country nationals on certain conditions:
• Are exempt from visa requirements for short stays;
• Have entered the EU through Portugal; 
• Be within the legal length of authorized stay.
c). Portugal has kept a close dialogue with the UK embassy in Lisbon, with whom several information initiatives are being planned. We have already released a flyer explaining UK citizens the options that will be given in each scenario, under the logo “#stay calm you’ll stay”.
A top governmental level press conference has been held on 11 Jan 2019, and all the information is available in the Foreign Affairs Ministry and in the Migration service websites:
•
d). Regarding the outlined schedule:
1. The communication strategy is already ongoing and it will be boosted in the next months. 
2. Applications will be accepted from 30.03.2019 until 31.12.2020.
3. In case of a well-documented request, deliverance of residence permits will occur in few days after submission."


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## vianina (Feb 25, 2020)

https://ec.europa.eu/info/brexit/brexit-preparedness/citizens-rights_en#portugal


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## Pgmills (Jan 19, 2015)

vianina said:


> Hello all,
> According to the European Commission website, before the end of the transition period the 5-year EU registo certificate needs to be traded in for a residence permit to be issued under the law on aliens (Lei nº. 23/2007). That gives us until 31 December 2020. Am I right in thinking that nothing has been said yet about how this is meant to happen?
> Obrigada


The passage you refer to was in case of ‘no deal’. The WA is now in place so this will be superseded.


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## vianina (Feb 25, 2020)

pgmills, is that an assumption or have you seen something to that effect?

Take a look, for example, at this:

https://www.euroweeklynews.com/2020/02/28/the-european-commission-has-decided-to-create-an-eu-wide-biometric-residence-document-for-all-british-nationals-living-in-the-bloc-by-the-end-of-the-post-brexit-transition-period/


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## Pgmills (Jan 19, 2015)

It was a statement of fact. The link you posted was to ‘no deal’ EC planning as proposed to be implemented by Portugal. 
The EC has subsequently (as you correctly link to) made a proposal for a standardised biometric document and this has superseded the ‘no deal’ plan.


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## vianina (Feb 25, 2020)

The biometric common format residence permit was part of the EU’s, and Portugal’s, Brexit planning as far back as 2015, deal or no deal. My question was whether anybody has information on how Portugal plans to implement it, and when.


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## vianina (Feb 25, 2020)

Typo, apology. Since 2018, not 2015.


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## Pgmills (Jan 19, 2015)

I can only reiterate the fact that your link is to a ‘no deal’ brexit plan.


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## vianina (Feb 25, 2020)

The first link, yes, it would be a pity if that derailed the thread, since this matter of swapping to residency cards is much bigger than the issue you are raising. It potentially affects a large number of people and does not seem to be widely publicized.


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## Pgmills (Jan 19, 2015)

The EU as a whole and Portugal as a member state have yet to decide on whether they are to follow a declaratory or constitutive system. When they do, SEF have agreed to delegate issuance to certain Camaras. There will be plenty of publicity when an agreed system for Portugal is in place. The chances of an EU wide standardised system are probably between slim and none.


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## proud.to.be.EUROPEAN (Feb 14, 2020)

Please avoid posting links from tabloids or back street website.
Stick to official gov sites. I am sure SEF will update site when decision is made.


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## vianina (Feb 25, 2020)

First I am asked for links, then I am asked to avoid posting them. What "back street websites" were you referring to?

Yes, SEF will update. In the meantime, some of us might like to make travel arrangements for the winter and not be caught at the last minute.


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## proud.to.be.EUROPEAN (Feb 14, 2020)

"back street websites", in my view, are any that aren't gov run and are spreading gossip with intention of making profit. I wasn't having a go at you or anyone else.

As for inconvenience of travel, you'll have to address that to brexit party hq or No10 cummings/goings attention. Actually, they might be sharing same address.


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## vianina (Feb 25, 2020)

Gossip it ain't, unfortunately. The residence permit plan is out there and has been since the EU started its expert group, whose report I can't see any way of attaching, but which currently comes up in fourth position if you type "eu common residence card brexit" into Google. 
I'm naively amazed that governments aren't talking about it, though that is possibly to be attributed to incompetence rather than anything darker.
Right then. It doesn't look like anyone has any more info than the scraps I've seen. Thanks to all.


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## RichardHenshall (Jul 26, 2009)

Although a year old the list below (which runs to 69 pages) would seem to suggest that there is considerable work to be done to produce a 'common residence card'.

https://ec.europa.eu/home-affairs/s...residence-permits-issued-by-member-states.pdf


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## Pgmills (Jan 19, 2015)

‘‘Twas ever thus!


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## vianina (Feb 25, 2020)

The Commission's expert group seeks an Article 50 residence card in the common format of Regulation (EC) 1030/2002 (which contains detailed prescriptions). Portugal explicitly stated back in 2018 that it would do that, so I suspect it's not so much work to be done, as budgets to be allocated.


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## vianina (Feb 25, 2020)

However, in case anyone was getting their hopes up, it is only the FORMAT that will be common. Holders will still be restricted to 90/180 days for the rest of the EU.


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## Pgmills (Jan 19, 2015)

1. You place too much faith in the European Commision’s ability to impact upon reality. If I had an euro for each time Guy ver bulls**t made a promise on citizens’ rights I would be rich by now...
2. Of course we will be limited to the schengen 90day rule. The UK is now a ‘third country’.


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## vianina (Feb 25, 2020)

Pgmills, after 20 years working in international organizations (not the Commission, no particular axe to grind) I'm hardly likely to be putting faith in what the bigwigs think we should be told. On the other hand, when Member States take the trouble to detail their intended policy, chosen from a number of options, to an EU or international expert group, it generally means they will follow through, albeit often not in the stated time frame.
That information may be useful to holders of the registo whose situation could give rise to questions if they had to undergo the registo process again. Those to whom it is not useful, or who prefer not to hear it, are requested not to shoot the messenger.


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## Pgmills (Jan 19, 2015)

Or alternatively interested parties could just keep an eye on the Brits in Portugal site run by the British Embassy. 
If in doubt keep calm and carry on. Holidays are not a problem. Indeed absences of up to 5 years are permitted under the WA.
Over and out!


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## vianina (Feb 25, 2020)

This is a forum, correct? So information may be exchanged on it. I don’t know why you put quite so much faith in the Embassy site, now that you mention it.


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## vianina (Feb 25, 2020)

Oh, and the claim regarding five years of absence, under the registo, is incorrect.


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## Pgmills (Jan 19, 2015)

vianina said:


> Oh, and the claim regarding five years of absence, under the registo, is incorrect.


Err, no it’s not. Just read the WA.


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## vianina (Feb 25, 2020)

Er, yes it is. I’ve read the WA.


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## Pgmills (Jan 19, 2015)

Just like shooting fish in a barrel. 

Article 15.3 of the WA says

“Once acquired, the right of permanent residence shall be lost only through absence from the host state for. Period exceeding 5 years”

Would you like a copy of the whole agreement to read?


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## Pgmills (Jan 19, 2015)

And even those who place no faith in that can rely on the two year rule under EU law.......


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## vianina (Feb 25, 2020)

This is not about those who have permanent residence. It’s about the registo. That translates into ‘temporary residence peemit’. Here is what the WA says:

15.2. . Continuity of residence for the purposes of acquisition of the right of permanent residence shall be determined in accordance with Article 16(3) and Article 21 of Directive 2004/38/EC..

And here is what 2004/38/EC says/

3. Continuity of residence shall not be affected by temporary absences not exceeding a total of six months a year, or by absences of a longer duration for compulsory military service, or by one absence of a maximum of twelve consecutive months for important reasons such as pregnancy and childbirth, serious illness, study or vocational training, or a posting in another Member State or a third country.

Six months a year is the correct figure. Are you this rude in real life, or only behind a keyboard?


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## Pgmills (Jan 19, 2015)

abrupt, yes.


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## fbbanks (Mar 10, 2020)

*Sigh...*



Pgmills said:


> abrupt, yes.


We see so much disrespect for and rudeness towards others these that I think we should all make a concerted effort to avoid any appearance of them. American politics in particular seems to be especially inconsiderate of the feelings of others. We all recognise that our own feelings are important. Aren't those of others just as important?


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