# Costs To Assist Process long stay vistor visa



## peppinyourstep

I talked to a firm in Paris that my french tax lawyer recommended to me.
They want 
The fees for the management of an entrepreneur visa, to allow you to work freelance in France would be between 2,200 – 2,500 Euros (+ tax and costs).
plus

Consular visa fee 100 Euros
Immigration tax stamps for the permit around 260 Euros
Translations – we would request a quote from our translator and they would invoice you directly
General office admin fixed fee of 50 Euros

Is this normal? these seems outlandishly expensive just to submit some documents online.
Or am I missing something?

If i work online for myself for an america company , why would I need the entrepreneur visa, couldnt i just get the long stay tourist visa and renew it? I dont own my own company and i just work freelance filing my own taxes as independent contractor. 

I feel tempted just to apply for the long stay tourist visa myself and just risk it.

Something about this firm scream scam to me.

IDK just my gut reaction to this email I received.


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## dpdapper

chilipepinyourstep said:


> If i work online for myself for an america company , why would I need the entrepreneur visa, couldnt i just get the long stay tourist visa and renew it? I dont own my own company and i just work freelance filing my own taxes as independent contractor.
> 
> I feel tempted just to apply for the long stay tourist visa myself and just risk it.


See my response to your other post.


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## peppinyourstep

dpdapper said:


> See my response to your other post.


do you think the lawyer fees sound right to you? idk seems a bit high. maybe the entrepreneur has more requirements .


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## dpdapper

chilipepinyourstep said:


> do you think the lawyer fees sound right to you? idk seems a bit high. maybe the entrepreneur has more requirements .


Sorry, I have no idea. But applying for a work visa is no doubt more complex (and difficult) than applying for a visitor visa.


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## EuroTrash

chilipepinyourstep said:


> If i work online for myself for an america company , why would I need the entrepreneur visa, couldnt i just get the long stay tourist visa and renew it? I dont own my own company and i just work freelance filing my own taxes as independent contractor.


No.
You seem to be wishing for a kind of digital nomad arrangement.








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France doesn't permit this.
Maybe look at one of the countries that does? Why do you specifically want to come to France?

EDIT - Looking at that link more carefully it's maybe not as good as it looked at first sight, for instance it includes Spain which I have read is currently in the early stages of cosidering this type of visa but I'm pretty sure doesn't currently offer it. But if you google "digital nomad visas" you will find plenty info to get you started.


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## Bevdeforges

It is very unusual for those applying for visas to make use of legal representation and your visa request will be seriously suspect if you do go through an attorney. You need to have a "reason" for wanting to move to France - whether for just a year or two or "forever." And as ET has said, France doesn't have a Digital Nomad category for either visas or residence permits. If you are doing work from France (no matter for who, where, or how you're being paid) you are considered to be working in France and will need to be enrolled in the French tax and social insurance systems.

You may want to take a look at the so-called "Passeport Talent" visa if you might be interested in setting up shop in France with some sort of innovative or high tech type of business. But be advised that there are a myriad of complications if you try to "work remotely" from France while maintaining your employee status with your employer. You probably won't be able to get your US Social Security withholdings refunded, even if you're signed up into the French retirement system. Your employer may "have to" continue to withhold state income taxes (which you may or may not be able to get back), and various employee benefits you rely on your US employer for may very well be useless over here.

Basically, in your situation, you can either attempt the entrepreneur route (though unless your line of work is of interest to the French government, your chances are slim) or your employer can register as a "foreign employer with no French presence" - which will cost them big time, due to the higher employer contributions here toward health care, retirement, etc.


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## peppinyourstep

Bevdeforges said:


> It is very unusual for those applying for visas to make use of legal representation and your visa request will be seriously suspect if you do go through an attorney. You need to have a "reason" for wanting to move to France - whether for just a year or two or "forever." And as ET has said, France doesn't have a Digital Nomad category for either visas or residence permits. If you are doing work from France (no matter for who, where, or how you're being paid) you are considered to be working in France and will need to be enrolled in the French tax and social insurance systems.
> 
> You may want to take a look at the so-called "Passeport Talent" visa if you might be interested in setting up shop in France with some sort of innovative or high tech type of business. But be advised that there are a myriad of complications if you try to "work remotely" from France while maintaining your employee status with your employer. You probably won't be able to get your US Social Security withholdings refunded, even if you're signed up into the French retirement system. Your employer may "have to" continue to withhold state income taxes (which you may or may not be able to get back), and various employee benefits you rely on your US employer for may very well be useless over here.
> 
> Basically, in your situation, you can either attempt the entrepreneur route (though unless your line of work is of interest to the French government, your chances are slim) or your employer can register as a "foreign employer with no French presence" - which will cost them big time, due to the higher employer contributions here toward health care, retirement, etc.


because i work for an online platform (similar to tiktok but the adult version)
i cant imagine them granting my visa for talent even though I am a model /influencer (cringe sorry ) by profession.
I have no actual employer because I am self employed independent contractor. Its similar to filing as a youtuber. 
So I pay my own share of social security taxes, and because I am relatively young I will be wanting to pay into the french retirement system not the USA (I haven't been back to the usa in 9 years ironically enough )

My reason for moving to france is to enjoy my life in the way i see fit, ironically away from cellphones social media, and focus on my true passion and interest in art and history. I feel at home in France.
Ill be able to express that in my interview based on my education, degree, and background. 

If the long stay tourist visa is out of the question.. i dont see any way other than hiring a lawyer and having to explain to them what i do for a living and let them help me. unless i find a reply from someone on this forum than but for sure not the firm i contacted. And i guess to balance the universe id share my journey and lessons to try to help others on here.


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## peppinyourstep

EuroTrash said:


> No.
> You seem to be wishing for a kind of digital nomad arrangement.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Best Countries With Digital Nomad & Remote Work Visas
> 
> 
> Want to live & work from a Caribbean island or a historic European city? Learn which countries offer visas for digital nomads and remote workers...
> 
> 
> 
> expertvagabond.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> France doesn't permit this.
> Maybe look at one of the countries that does? Why do you specifically want to come to France?
> 
> EDIT - Looking at that link more carefully it's maybe not as good as it looked at first sight, for instance it includes Spain which I have read is currently in the early stages of considering this type of visa but I'm pretty sure doesn't currently offer it. But if you google "digital nomad visas" you will find plenty info to get you started.


i live in mexico so i totally get this "nomad" lifestyle thing. but its not for me.
I want to live in france. its the only place i know other than the usa that i feel at home.
I cant go back to the usa because my husband was deported 10 years ago and I refuse to pay $15,000 to try to get him a visa only to go back and start all over to somewhere i dont like.

I need to find somewhere i can plant roots, pay into a system, get good medical care, and feel comfortable with language and surroundings.

I spent my whole life either learning, living or studying france so for me its my home away from home.

I am not one of those idealistic people who really hasnt lived or spent time there and has some far of "inquiry of maybe moving to france" or something.
or wanting to go to Portugal for a nomadic lifestyle to be trendy or take a photo of a laptop on the beach. For me I have no other real option. 
I have income, i have savings. And i took up my profession literally just so i could move to france. I have to find a way. 

I have hated every single moment of my life in mexico from the first day to the last day of the past 10 years.

This is my year to make my move.


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## Bevdeforges

"Influencers" are a big deal here in France, too. Don't count it out. Just come up with a reasonable business plan for what you would be doing here in France and how you want to "expand your business." It certainly won't hurt that you speak French fluently (all the more reason to move your business to France). Seriously, take a look at one of the CCI sites - every departement has a Chambre de Commerce et d'Industrie and each CCI these days has a rather significant section online about their services to entrepreneurs looking to start up or expand their businesses. It would look far better than a lawyer to have a "counselor" from the CCI in the area you're thinking of moving to.


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## 255

@chilipepinyourstep - As has been discussed earlier, your best option is to forget about a long stay visa and instead concentrate on the Passeport Talent. International talents | France-Visas.gouv.fr There are about a dozen versions of this visa/resident permit and you can probably make your situation "fit" into more than one. There are a few threads of forum members "deciding" which one to apply, to best serve their purposes. The Passeport Talent can also be good for up to four years, and can be renewed. So renew once, and after you're in France five years, you can apply for citizenship, if that's your desire. You might consider forming a French SAS. This form of business is relatively simple, compared to some of the other French business entities. 

The other recommendation, already given, is to contact the CCI in the area where you want to move. CCI de France federates the French Chambers of Commerce and Industry - Business France All regions want to attract talent/business and you will normally be provided a Counsellor to help advise. Good luck! Cheers, 255


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## Bevdeforges

255 said:


> You might consider forming a French SAS. This form of business is relatively simple, compared to some of the other French business entities.


STRONGLY disagree here. A French SAS require multiple shareholders and will require audited financials each year (with the auditor's opinion on the submission) - a major expense and hassle. There are a number of forms of single-owner business entity that are much simpler to set up and run - EURL, EIRL - and even an SARL only requires two shareholders and only the submission of annual financial statements without the need for a formal audit by an expert comptable. Just know that, even for a single owner business, you are expected to run an annual meeting and submit the minutes and decisions of the annual meeting along with your financials each year. (It is kind of "fun" to write up the annual meeting minutes each year if you have a certain perverse sense of humor - like I do.)


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## BackinFrance

I too strongly recommend that you go for a passeport talent, especially given your husband's situation which will likely. I would think it would be best to do so before April, given nobody can predict the outcome of the Presidential election, let alone the elections législatives. Still if the left happened to win either that would be a1a significant window of opportunity should you not be able to apply in the meantime or get refused.


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## BackinFrance

And I think that you could put a good case if you really try to do so. But do it before April, whilst a well thought out business plan will be taken into account.


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## BackinFrance

And the sooner you do it the better IMO.


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## peppinyourstep

I updated in my other thread that i will be meeting with a lawyer this week who promises 


> By the end of the consultation we will have determined exactly which visa you are eligible for and what you will need to do to successfully apply for it.
> After the consultation, it will be up to you to decide if you would like to use my services to take care of the entire application process for you or if you would prefer to complete the process yourself.
Click to expand...

ill update everyone on here and post any information. hopefully it can help others in a similarly complicated situation. Everyone here are such experts!!! I cant wait to be more active in this wonderful community. hugs


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## Crabtree

At least you did not want to run a gite...Now that would have brought out the experts
Let us know how you get on and perhaps you can come back on here to let other newbies in on your expertise👍


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## peppinyourstep

I wanted to provide an update. Hopefully this info will be helpful for others.---After speaking with a different lawyer I was advised that he would be able to process our visas as "visitor" aka the old retirement visa. that was what he advised thus giving me 5 years tax free until perm. res. I need $45,000 in my account aprox $20,000 per person to be sure that we will get approved. And he will handle the rest. his fee was 150 euro for the 1 hour conversation and included a follow up list of required documents if i wanted to apply alone. or if i wanted his help it would be 3,000 euros. but he 100% promises approval if I go through him. Seems very steep for a tourist visa. but I mean .. compared to the taxes id have to pay with other visa types , or compared to the costs wasted if i bought airline tickets to mexico city and went through all the steps to apply for the visa only to be missing something or have it rejected.. it seems like it might be an expense to consider. 
Honestly this visa type will save me from taxes and help me set up my life. 
however i do not have the full 45k in savings right now as living in mexico is costing me a ton of money around $3,800 a month basic living costs making it hard to save despite my decent income. I currently have no medical insurance and no car insurance. I could write a book on all the things I hate about living in mexico. and all the pain and suffering it has caused me. I would never have moved here if my husband not being allowed to live in the usa.. but thats a different story... anyways so ill need to save up $15,000 at least or more before I can apply by the end of the summer.
Knowing how well i have lived in france for much less than the $3,800 a month and for a much better quality of life is very hard for me to accept at this time. 
BUT
I asked him repeatedly if it was ok for us to use this type of visa, and he assured me that he helps many people who work online same situation as me and that it is legal and the easiest way. 
he also told me that after i buy the medical insurance they will also still give me the "carte vitale" or whatever it is called. 

conclusion- if he can promise my visa, and if i just need to reach $45,000 to give myself the chance at the life I want 
that is a drop in the bucket compared to the high cost /difficult/dangerous living situation I am facing in Mexico. 

Its all up to me now to save up money. easier said than done. such is life. 

I hope this information can be helpful for others.


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## dpdapper

peppinyourstep said:


> that was what he advised thus giving me 5 years tax free until perm. res.
> 
> I asked him repeatedly if it was ok for us to use this type of visa, and he assured me that he helps many people who work online same situation as me and that it is legal and the easiest way.


Well, all I can say is that the lawyer’s advice is contrary to everything I’ve understood about how the French tax system and the visitor visa works.

On what basis does he say having a visitor visa lets you live tax free? Once you become a resident in France, you must pay French taxes on your worldwide income (subject to any tax treaty rules on double taxation with regard to taxes you pay in other countries). And if you move to France with the intention to stay there full time indefinitely, even under a visitor visa, you are resident in France. And you can only get a carte vitale (government health insurance) if you are a resident in France.

And as Bev has said in response to your posts, if you are in France and working, even if you are working online for clients outside France, you are “working in France,” contrary to the terms of your visa/carte de séjour. Whether the French tax authorities would be any wiser is another question, but it’s your decision as to whether to take that risk, having signed a statement in applying for your visa that you promise not to work in France. (Actually, the language of the statement you are required to provide states that you “agree not to engage in any professional activity in France.”)

Good luck is all I can say.


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## Bevdeforges

Like dpdapper, I seriously question the "advice" the attorney you consulted has given you. You do not need to have "permanent residence" in order to be subject to tax here in France. The standard is simply that you have your primary place of residence here (or that you do business here in France or have your primary centers of interest in France). 


peppinyourstep said:


> Seems very steep for a tourist visa. but I mean .. compared to the taxes id have to pay with other visa types , or compared to the costs wasted if i bought airline tickets to mexico city and went through all the steps to apply for the visa only to be missing something or have it rejected.. it seems like it might be an expense to consider.
> Honestly this visa type will save me from taxes and help me set up my life.


All of this is very suspect. NO ONE can guarantee you will succeed in your visa quest for France. And the "visitor" visa is NOT a "tourist" visa. It's the standard visa issued to those planning to retire to France. Generally speaking, you need much more than $45,000 in the bank to be approved for a "visitor" (i.e. non-working) visa. 

And they won't "give" you a Carte Vitale. You need 3 months of valid residence in France before you can apply. And either you need to be on a retirement pension (in which case it is free in most cases) or you'll be assessed a percentage of your income to cover the costs. (Income being based on what you declared on your French income tax declarations once you get past the initial application.)

I would save your $3000 and try a different approach. Have you considered Canada?


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## 255

@peppinyourstep -- Your lawyer is just plain wrong! Or you misunderstood him. If you live in France, you'll owe taxes to France. As others have said, the visa you are pursuing does not grant work privileges. It would be folly to attempt this route. You mentioned your desire for permanent residency -- one of the things required is to prove you are compliant tax wise! (also proof of "integration") As you want to work, quit trying to find an easy way out and take a look at the Passport Talent web-page. It's not that hard -- you don't need a lawyer.

I am sure there are others that come to France, work online and break the law -- but this is not the way to get permanent residency nor citizenship. There are many variations that forum members have taken in the recent past -- to come and work legally. Why try to skate by and work under the table?

If I give your attorney the benefit of the doubt -- there is a way to not pay French social charges for up to five years. Of course this means you'd still owe employment taxes to the U.S. Review the following: International Programs - Totalization Agreement with France . You've said before, you would prefer to pay into the French retirement system, which is the opposite of working under the table. This 5 year exemption is designed for temporary workers that will eventually leave France and return to the States.

Assuming you make close to your Mexico expenses ($3,800.00,) you make more than enough to qualify for a work visa! Increase of the minimum wage in France - Welcome to France

If you want a bit of hand holding, you might check-out this web-site: https://www.startbusinessinfrance.com/ . I've not used her, but her forum has lots of useful information (or at least it did before she went to a paid model.) Good luck! Cheers, 255


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## Bevdeforges

A couple of caveats here:


255 said:


> This 5 year exemption is designed for temporary workers that will eventually leave France and return to the States.


This is generally handled by the employer (i.e. an "international employer") for "temporary" transfers to France. This program in France has a long history of US employers "fudging" the system and the French authorities tend to look VERY closely at all these sorts of transfers. Granted, it's the employer who is the one who gets nailed if they are found to be abusing the system - but I seriously doubt that it's available to self employed individuals. And do note that you only avoid paying the "cotisations" (social insurances) during that 5 year period. You are still expected to declare and pay your taxes in France during that period.



255 said:


> Assuming you make close to your Mexico expenses ($3,800.00,) you make more than enough to qualify for a work visa! Increase of the minimum wage in France - Welcome to France


Once again, getting a work visa generally requires that you have a job (or serious job offer) for which the employer can obtain work authorization for you to work in France. Usually means that the employer needs to show that they have already tried to find a similarly qualified candidate already living in France with work privileges. There is always the passeport talent, sure, but for that you need a very high paying job (with technical qualifications) or a serious business plan (showing why you "need" to be in France to do whatever it is you're proposing doing). It's not a matter of "I can telecommute my current job from anywhere in the world."


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