# Long Term rental



## springfield1 (Feb 13, 2016)

We are thinking of moving to Spain, but are having second thoughts about actually buying a house. We have been thinking about renting our UK home out and the rent we receive from that will pay for a nice place in Spain, would we be able to stay permanantly and would we need a NIE number, would we be classed as permanant residents even though we will not own a property, will we be able to buy a car. We have given it quite a lot of thought, and if we don't like it we will still have a home to go back to in the UK.

Any advice would be very welcome, it is such a big decision to make we want to make sure we get it right.


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

springfield1 said:


> We are thinking of moving to Spain, but are having second thoughts about actually buying a house. We have been thinking about renting our UK home out and the rent we receive from that will pay for a nice place in Spain, would we be able to stay permanantly and would we need a NIE number, would we be classed as permanant residents even though we will not own a property, will we be able to buy a car. We have given it quite a lot of thought, and if we don't like it we will still have a home to go back to in the UK.
> 
> Any advice would be very welcome, it is such a big decision to make we want to make sure we get it right.


Have you taken a browse through the forum as many (all) of these questions have been asked and answered before. 

Specifically, residency is nothing to do with owning a property. You have to sign on the list of foreigners within 90 days and this will give you an NIE. After 183 days of being resident here (within a calendar year) you will also be deemed tax resident.

So, YES, you will need an NIE and you will have to sign on the list of foreigners. This latter one will involve you have to prove sufficient income and that you have health cover.

Buying a car simply requires you to prove that you have an NIE although many places (wrongly) insist on you being on the padron as well.


For my money; keep your UK property and use the rental income (taxable in Spain) to pay for rent in Spain. You will have to pay tax on this income in UK and then you will need to declare it in your annual Spanish tax return.


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## Sandy64 (Aug 11, 2015)

Buying a car simply requires you to prove that you have an NIE although many places (wrongly) insist on you being on the padron as well.


In Catalunya we had to register with the Hacienda before our new car could be given a number plate.


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## bob_bob (Jan 5, 2011)

Your doing the right think by renting your UK property and then renting in Spain. Get good letting agents in the UK and your accountant should take care of any tax liable.

Renting in Spain gives you mobility; that perfect Spanish area/property you love may not hold its appeal after a while so you move on.


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

Sandy64 said:


> Buying a car simply requires you to prove that you have an NIE although many places (wrongly) insist on you being on the padron as well.
> 
> 
> In Catalunya we had to register with the Hacienda before our new car could be given a number plate.


I may be wrong but doesn't "registering with Hacienda" amount to the same thing as getting an NIE (in these circumstances).


What do you actually mean by "registering with Hacienda"?


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## Sandy64 (Aug 11, 2015)

By Hacienda I mean Agencia Tributaria. We already had N.I.E.s but I think we would have needed them beforehand anyway. The problem was that our car could not be registered and given a number plate until we had been to the AT. We also had Certificados de Residencia but that didn't help.


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

Sandy64 said:


> By Hacienda I mean Agencia Tributaria. We already had N.I.E.s but I think we would have needed them beforehand anyway. The problem was that our car could not be registered and given a number plate until we had been to the AT. We also had Certificados de Residencia but that didn't help.


There is no need to 'register' at Hacienda (or AT) - you simply need to go there to complete the process.


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## Sandy64 (Aug 11, 2015)

Yes. You go there there, fill in a form and sign it. I called this registering. Maybe you call it something else. Give it a rest snikpoh, it's time to move on.


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

Sandy64 said:


> Yes. You go there there, fill in a form and sign it. I called this registering. Maybe you call it something else. Give it a rest snikpoh, it's time to move on.


Yes, let's not get bogged down.

However, it is important to give the correct information. One needs to go to hacienda to pay the appropriate tax and to complete the necessary transfer documents - and that's it.


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## Jesnat (Mar 5, 2016)

We are following the advice of many contributors and renting our house in the UK and renting in Spain - hopefully living partially on the difference. We are using a reputable managing estate agent so hopefully less to worry about. One thing I have learnt, getting our house up to a rentable standard has cost a lot more than I budgeted for - we needed an up to date electrical safety certificate which required some work to be done, boiler service, some redecoration, cleaning and so on, and it took much longer than we thought. Also we needed to be ruthless with our stuff as the cost of storage outweighed much of its value. But we are cleaner and leaner and ready to go. Good luck with your decision.


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## Sandy64 (Aug 11, 2015)

Snikpoh the information I gave was entirely correct. Our car would not have been registered and given number plates if we had not first "signed on" at the hacienda. That is a fact. End of story.


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

Sandy64 said:


> Snikpoh the information I gave was entirely correct. Our car would not have been registered and given number plates if we had not first "signed on" at the hacienda. That is a fact. End of story.


OK - Clearly everywhere is different.

In Valencia (province) one does not have to 'sign on' as we've just helped a friend through the process.


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## thrax (Nov 13, 2008)

It is different in different areas. We did not have to register to have our car matriculated.


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## Deb Douglas (Mar 25, 2015)

Springfield1, you're absolutely doing the right thing by not buying a property here right away. 

Renting is the perfect way to see if you like an area without being tied down. Think how awful if would be if you bought somewhere, only to later find out you had the neighbours from hell. Or something worse. 

Renting will give you the freedom and flexibility to try before you buy - a very wise move - if you do, indeed, decide to buy. 

We've been here for 15 years and still haven't bought anywhere. We've moved eight times and we probably haven't finished yet! 

If we'd bought a place when we first arrived here, as was our original plan, and then realised we didn't like the area but couldn't sell the house (as is currently the case with many home owners trying to sell) we'd have been stuck there. 

As it is, renting has given us the freedom to come and go as we please and move wherever we want, when the mood takes us. 

And when people talk about renting being 'dead money' I couldn't disagree more.

If paying rent (aka 'dead money') allows us to be free to live our dream life, then I'm happy with that. 

We would never have considered renting in the UK - we've always owned our own properties - but here, we've realised that being homeowners is no longer important to us. With the rent we've paid out in the 15 years we've been here, we could have bought a place and paid off the mortgage by now but I'm so glad we didn't. 

I would far rather be free to go off at the drop of a hat than be stuck in a house we couldn't sell and have to drastically drop the price before we could even consider moving on.

I appreciate that not everyone will agree with me but we're all entitled to our opinions and that's mine! 

Good luck to you!


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## Elle1971 (Jan 31, 2013)

I too will back the "rent first" recommendation - based on personal experience and personal opinion.

We've been in Spain for almost ten years now (6 in Lanzarote and almost 4 on the mainland). We have always rented and having been here through the credit crisis, am pleased we did.

It's given us the flexibility to try different areas and property types (although we haven't moved much) and we're not stuck - which is how a number of our friends feel... owning property that they can't sell because either it won't sell or they'd have to take too much of a loss. 

We've done the tourist resort (not really Spain but still lovely) and are now out in the countryside. We'll be trying village/town life too at some point. Not until then will we decide to buy. I strongly suspect we'll end up buying out in the campo, but we want to test a livelier location first to be sure. What is lovely for six months may wear thin after a few years... and at least if renting you can up sticks more easily.

We will buy eventually but not until we've tested the area and property type fully.

E x


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Deb Douglas said:


> Springfield1, you're absolutely doing the right thing by not buying a property here right away.
> 
> Renting is the perfect way to see if you like an area without being tied down. Think how awful if would be if you bought somewhere, only to later find out you had the neighbours from hell. Or something worse.
> 
> ...


Well I agree with you 100%!!
We left the UK in 2008 and knew that come whatever we would never return. We sold every property we owned, house, rental properties, business premises, the lot and banked the money.
We moved to Prague and rented a fabulous house with heated covered swimming pool and lovely 'grounds'. People said we should buy, we were giving money to landlords...
After three years we decided to move to warmer climes so off we went to Sunny Andalucia. If we'd bought in Prague we might still be there! We spent a month in my son's house looking for somewhere to rent, chose a piso,badly....but after five months moved out into the house we've lived in for seven years now. In a couple more years we might move into a smaller place in town.
We moved all our possessions around Europe with us, though, furniture, china etc. It's helped us settle in. We have a great landlord who takes me out to lunch each time he visits from his home in Austria. We're lucky and know it but so is he as we are good tenants.
My son and dil have a house here and certainly don't want to inherit another one. 
As for people who talk about 'dead money'.....isn't paying several times the purchase price of your house in interest, if you have a mortgage, 'dead money'?
People are often obsessed with home ownership because they regard their house as an investment, as savings for retirement. They should pray they don't retire at a time of negative equity.
Renting is not an 'inferior' option to buying, it's a perfectly reasonable and sensible alternative. Buying suits some people for their own personal reasons, renting ditto.
I am just so relieved that when we have a major problem, such as a fractured water pipe we had recently, the landlord gets it fixed immediately. Not my worry any more.


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## springfield1 (Feb 13, 2016)

Thanks to everyone for all the positive remarks regarding renting long term, we really feel that we will be doing the right thing. As I said in my earlier posting if we don't like living in Spain we will have a house to come back to in the Uk (though I can't see us not liking it.
Springfield


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

springfield1 said:


> Thanks to everyone for all the positive remarks regarding renting long term, we really feel that we will be doing the right thing. As I said in my earlier posting if we don't like living in Spain we will have a house to come back to in the Uk (though I can't see us not liking it.
> Springfield


We will never leave Spain.
But we'll probably leave where we are happily living now as the house is big and we may become decrepit...so we'll move into a smaller place.
And that will take just one phone call to the removal company and a letter to the landlord....


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## AllHeart (Nov 22, 2013)

Something buyers don't take into consideration is that there are those of us who simply don't like having a house and yard to take care of. I grew up in a big house and detested the upkeep with constant cleaning, renovations and yard work. I vowed never to own a house. Even when I could afford buying, I opted to rent. I simply prefer my little apartment that's easy to take care of. Any problems, and I just pick up the phone and call my landlord who arranges to fix whatever needs fixing. That way, I can spend my time doing tons of things that are more enjoyable for me. Simplicity is renting.


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