# New life in Germany Required!!!



## Bluewho

Hallo! 

I'm looking for advice or help in beginning the Uk to Germany transition for myself and my family.

I'm a married man, and me and my wife have 2 young daughters, under the age of 6. I require information and honest advice about living in Germany, what it's like for families, is it generally based "pro children" like I believe it to be? Is the quality of life as good as I believe it to be?

In terms of employment, I'm a fully qualified Plumbing and Heating engineer, with 6 years on-the-job experience in all aspects of plumbing, heating, kitchen installations, bathroom installations, rainwater installations, tiling and joinery, so this is the area in which I would like to continue to work.

Please, any help or advice to help me and my family? Thank you!


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## _shel

New life! Wont be a new life, will be the same life you always had, same problems, same joys, same family, just in a different location.


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## Bluewho

Believe it or not, I realise that. 

But I want the best opportunities for myself, my wife and my kids. And for some people, moving abroad and changing your entire work and social circles is often life changing. Would you agree?

Thank you so much for your encouragement.


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## _shel

Totally, it is life changing of course. New schools, new job, new home, new language but believe it or not many think they really can have a new life. That they can run away from their issues at home with relationships or money etc, in work or their community and that stuff somehow stays behind while they move on. Doesnt work like that. 

So why Germany? I cant speak a word of German personally so I'd not get far!


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## Bluewho

I agree.

Firstly, I can speak basic German, having studied it at secondary school.
Secondly, I have many close friends and family that have visited for both work and leisure, and I hear nothing but positive things. I am also very impressed by the strong German economy, the positive industries and development, very pro family with parks, countryside, skiing etc.

Im generally impressed by it all really.


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## beppi

Unless you have exceptional skills, as a foreign plumber with limited language skills you will compete with lots of Eastern Europeans at the lowest income level. Good luck for trying to feed your wife and two children with the less than €2000/month (before tax) that you are likely to earn!


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## Tellus

Bluewho said:


> I agree.
> 
> Firstly, I can speak basic German, having studied it at secondary school.
> Secondly, I have many close friends and family that have visited for both work and leisure, and I hear nothing but positive things. I am also very impressed by the strong German economy, the positive industries and development, very pro family with parks, countryside, skiing etc.
> Im generally impressed by it all really.


...but I 'm sure you will be surprised about the wage level in Germany.
Many people can' t survive with one income, often they get a second or third job
and /or they get welfare too. It' s called "HARTZ IV".
That's the other side of the medal, the scissor between poor and rich..
Beppi said it very clear...
As a qualified construction worker I would have a look to Scandinavia or Canada.


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## Bluewho

Okay thank you for your honesty and advice.

Still, would I be wrong if I said wages would differ from area to area? And if one is working for a local independent company or a worldwide international one? 

Our overall plan is for myself to find possible employment, then when our children are full time at school, my wife would look for work also. 

Believe me, we do not want to come and "sponge" on the welfare bill as many Europeans in the UK do, we are and want to continue to be honest hardworking people, just with a passion to give ourselves and our children the best possible upbringing and early life.


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## beppi

Yes, the pay does vary with work scope, employer and location. The level I mentioned above is for a good job in a Western German city, thus the higher range you can expect. (Of course living costs are also higher there.)
Just for information: Average pay for construction workers in Western Germany is €11-15/hour, and lower in the East. As the political debate for a minimum "living" wage of €8.50/hour is not concluded, many are still earning less. Also keep in mind that about 30% of that is deducted for taxes and (compulsory) social security contributions.

Public schools are generally half day, and even "whole day schooling" (which is becoming more common in recent years) ends at 4pm. The (Western) German system is still mostly geared towards stay-at-home mothers, although that is slowly changing, with longer (paid) child care options becoming more and more available, but numbers are still inadequate.


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## James3214

Bluewho, I think you are quite right to believe that the standard of living is high and that Germany is more 'pro family' and although you may not earn as much as you will in some other countries at least your skill is in demand and the fact that you are qualified makes it a bit easier to get a job although you might have to do some other 'conversion' courses to get 'recognised'. Wages do differ in areas and you might get taxed a bit more but the cost of living and the cost of housing, etc (in most areas, outside of cities) is generally lower than in the UK and you should be able to live comfortably to start with if you plan well. Stick your children into state schools and they will soon integrate quickly. Unlike the UK, the work/family balance seems to be more important here in Germany. Health care and Education is also good and it sometimes nice to see your taxes spent well on decent roads and infrastructure (stupid aside...water pressure!)
First thing to do is to learn the German word for plumber and go and do a German Google search (google.de) for 'Klempner'. It's refreshing to hear someone who is coming for the right reasons and doing the proper research and I know from experience that if it is properly done, the opportunities will come, believe me!


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## Bluewho

james3214 - Thank you for your reply.

At the moment I am partway through supplying my details to ZAV Federal Employment Agency, which I've been in contact with and have had responses from. I've researched them and they are positive about my skills and qualifications in that I'm likely to find a future employer, which is great news, but one step at a time.

The biggest thing my friends and family spoke of was the German infrastructure, the transport systems and the people, friendly and helpful in majority of cases.

As I've said before, we are honest people, we will work, try our best in everything we do, and give every challenge and blessing our best shot!


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## Bluewho

Has anyone had dealings with the Federal Employment Agency? 
Are they the right people to turn to in situations like mine?

Thanks.


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## James3214

Personally, no dealings with that agency but I think you are in right place to start. At least, they sound positive about your chances. 

Did you try their 'Job market' search? 
JOBBÖRSE der Bundesagentur für Arbeit - Deutschlands größtes Online-Jobportal

Like most German agencies they might be a bit slow and bureaucratic at times, and its sometimes better and quicker to search their database and contact the employers or agencies themselves. When I searched there were more than 20 pages for 'Klempner's!

Good luck and let us know how you get on!


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## beppi

Their main job is paying unemployment benefits and helping those who get such payments.
People like you are not their main focus.
You should proactively apply for jobs at applicable companies in your field, not rely on agencies!


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## Bluewho

Thanks guys,

I'm not trying to rely on any agencies, but when I was looking online I found them and their helpful information about life, work, schooling etc. So I contacted them and like I said before, we are in the process. I'm not going to pass up any help I can get!

I'll let you guys know what happens next.


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## markksg

Hi

I cant recommend moving to Germany enough. I live in Ireland and will be moving to Germany by the end of 2014. My friend move to Berlin 4 and half years ago. He had basic German. he found the quality of life and cost of living excellent comparing it to Ireland he now works for a medical company and has a child and will be married within a year.

He believes that German is an excellent option once you commit long term. he originally went for 1 year but realised the longer the better he be. In terms of Education he says the spectrum of the curriculum is second to none.

I hope I am not rambling now but to sum up Germany is great and they welcome ppl who can fill jobs and help improve.


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## Bluewho

Hello markksg,

It's for these very reasons the people I know who have spent time in germany are so confident and encouraging about it, and for the education system that I would love my children to be in.

I've had a few job applications turned down, which is fine, because my German language skills are not good enough, so I'm going to begin an online language course to build it up better.


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## thegypsyinme

Hi Bluewho, It's many years since I and my family lived in Germany. We lived in a village in the Bavarian alps and loved it. Our daughters attended the local kindergarten and eventually the local schools. Some expats put their children in the International schools but if you want to live there permanently then you should consider putting them in state schools. It's a great place to bring up children. I personally would forget cities and the suburbs and consider small towns or a good sized village. Our daughters started skiing in kindergarten, there were also plenty of ice rinks within a 10km radius of where we lived. We all had bikes, and Germany has a lot of cycle paths. We would cycle to the open air pool on a weekend in the summer, then have an abendbrot in a local cafe. Life was wonderful and the German people are so friendly. I hope you and your family succeed in your quest. "You only live once, but if you do it right, once is enough.” - Mae West


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## Bluewho

Hello thegypsyinme,

I must say, that sounds completely idyllic! To be honest, we live in a little village now in the UK, and would really try to find something similar in Germany if possible. I'm not to much of a city living guy, working there is fine, but not to live. Love the space, fresh air and natural beauty too much!

Would you agree with me and say that German children have fantastic opportunities? And would you say that those opportunities would be difficult to find in the UK?


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## thegypsyinme

Hello Bluewho, Yes, definitely. We had to return to the UK but we felt we had no option at that time. Our daughters were 11 and 14 yrs. old when we went back to the UK, heart breaking for all of us! The UK could never afford the opportunities that our children had in Germany. The other thing is that sports opportunities there are encouraged. Years ago tennis was a very expensive sport to play but because of the likes of Steffi Graf, Boris Becker and Michael Stich anything is possible. Winter or summer there is always a sport for children to participate in. We used to have to pay extra after school activities in our village, bit it would never be extortionate. If you want the best for you and your family then go for it, you deserve it because you want it for the right reasons.


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## Bluewho

I see, sport is a massive thing in our family, love to watch and play all sorts.

How fast or slow did your children learn the local language? Did they struggle at school because of the language difference?


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## thegypsyinme

I would like to say that my eldest picked the language up pretty quickly - but she didn't! After a hearing test in the kindergarten it was discovered that she had a hearing problem. We went to the ear, nose and throat specialist and we found out she was deaf in both ears. She had an ear infection the previous winter and she had antibiotics prescribed by the local GP. On recommendation we sent her to the local sprachheilschule ( speech therapy school). To be honest, my husband and I were gutted at the time, we felt we'd failed her. She had grommets put in her ears for 10 months, tonsils out at 7 years old, unusual even for Germany, and she thrived, she loved the school and her pals. We eventually sent her younger sister to the same school as she had bad lisp. They both eventually attended main stream school and did well. I often wonder what the outcome would have been in the UK even then for our eldest daughter. The locals in our village always said if they didn't know that our daughters had English parents, they would think that the girls were german.


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## Bluewho

Oh I see, sorry to hear that.

I'm pleased it worked out well in the end though, by them being in mainstream school, but I can see why it was difficult. Were the German people supportive, and give you the help you needed? Me and my wife are doing a language course now on German, need to speak, read and write the language better than what we do currently. Did you learn before you went, or pick it up whilst living there?


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## thegypsyinme

She ended up with a degree from Durham University, so she's not done too bad. We had lots of support from doctors, teachers and of course our wonderful neighbours who we still visit when we can. I went to Germany and didn't speak a word of German. I worked as a contractor for Fokker Wolf, an aerospace company in Bremen, all aerospace stuff has to be written in English so it wasn't really a problem then - city living, there was a mix of nationalities and everybody spoke English. No excuse though not to learn the language. I started to learn the language when I went back a couple of years later. But it really took off when I went back a third time with my husband and the children and lived in a village. I used to buy the BILD newspaper everyday, a bit like the SUN I suppose, but easy reading. I started doing the crossword starting with maybe filling in a couple of clues and eventually finishing it! It built up my vocabulary. You can get BILD online, you should also try STERN, SPIEGEL and lots of other German mags. available on line.


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## Bluewho

That's really great! Well done her! Would you say that her and her sister having started education in Germany put them on the path to success more so than if you were in the UK? 

We will probably start to try and read online articles and pieces of text when we can,mas you say it boosts your vocabulary, so can only help! Did you live in Bremen all 3 times? How was it?


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## thegypsyinme

I thinks so. The Bavarian system of education was different from other parts of Germany at the time we were there, but that's not to say the system in Germany isn't good, it is, but Bavaria just did it differently. I t may have changed now. I used to have English conversation with one of our daughters teachers, she wanted to improve her English, and she told me that as teacher who studied in Bavaria she would get a job anywhere in Germany, not so if you studied being a teacher in other parts of Germany trying to secure a job in Bavaria, I think they may have had to do some further tests etc. to get a job. 

I personally despair of the education system this country has. When we lived in Germany we had an English aupair from he IOW. She often helped the girls with their homework as I worked fulltime. She was surprised that the girls maths were what she thought difficult, they were about 6 and 8 then, the maths she was on about for example was the greater than > and smaller than < numbers, she told me that they didn't start that until they were ca. 11 yrs. old in the UK. 

I met my husband In Bremen, he's English. I lived there about 15 months, we went back twice, the last time was about 18 months ago. The city hasn't changed much but the outskirts have, I wouldn't go back again now. There are some cheap flights from the UK to there and it is a pretty town. I then went to work in Norway, then Holland and Back to Bremen for about six months before getting married in the UK. We then went back to Germany, this time lake Constance, for two and a half years. I worked for a company in Staad, near Kreuzlingen, across the lake so I travelled by bicycle and ferry Mon-Fri it was approx. a 15min journey on the ferry, sometimes they sent me to a company near our flat, but I had to travel by bus at that time as I couldn't drive then - I learnt to drive in Meersburg, Germany, which is also on Lake Constance (Bodensee in german). My husbands contract eventually came to an end so we returned to the UK, he eventually worked for a company that sent him abroad quite a lot and we ended up living in Egypt then South Africa. By then my husband was fed up of travelling around as not every job was with a married status. I would be in the UK with a toddler and an energetic 3 year old and he'd be in somewhere hot and fed up. When the opportunity arose for him to take a job back in Germany that for us was fantastic. This time he was permanent staff, it was all good. It was nice to be paid for living in a holiday resort really, we lived near the Tegernsee.


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## Bluewho

Wow! What a story to tell your grandchildren! We have 2 children and I cannot imagine moving around so many different places for work, having to readjust each time to the different working environment. How did your children get on, moving around so much?

Myself and my wife have always lived in the UK, but having sat down and really spoke to different friends and family, we feel that a better education, way of life, job and career prospects are to be had in Germany. I know there are challenges, I'm not under the impression it's going to be plain sailing, but it's worth the challenges to give our girls the best. 

I personally work as a plumbing and heating engineer in the uk. I install, service, maintain and replace everything in domestic heating and plumbing systems - boilers, water heaters, pipe work, radiators, cookers, sinks, toilets, washbasins, baths, showers, bidets, hot water storage cylinders, tanks etc etc. do you have any knowledge, experience or opinions on this type of industry in Germany, as it's exactly what I wish to continue doing once my language improves?


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## thegypsyinme

Temperature Control: Equipment & Installations | Central heating systems | Germany | companies

It sounds like you've got plenty of experience, more than the average plumber I would say. Use the above link it may be of some. help. 

We actually bought our house in Germany, it was anew build, mid terrace, with an attic bedroom and bathroom, 3 beds on the first floor with hose bathroom, lounge/diner and guest WC on the ground floor. There was plumbing in the cellar for the washing machine. In the same room was the CH system, which was an oil fired system. The boiler was Viessmann It was a round floor standing boiler, quite big and radiator valve were Danfoss . We had a tank which was accessible from the CH/laundry room via a hatch, it was obviously filled up outside in the driveway. This tank believe it or not was 6000 litres and that is not a typing error! we filled it up to 3000 litre level and only topped it up a few of times in 8 years buying the oil in summer as it was cheaper then. There was also a play room in the cellar and a store room - it was like the Tardis!

When we went to Egypt we only had one daughter and she was a baby. When we went to SA we had a baby daughter and the eldest was about two and a half yrs. old, so it wasn't really a problem. When we went to Germany they were 18 months old and the eldest was 4 years old and they just adapt at that age, children just play and learn from each other. 

As for grandchildren I don't see that happening any time soon, the eldest only got married in May this year, she's just recently started a new job after working for a big name internet company in London for seven years. The youngest is at Uni as a mature student. She had a good job in local government and decided long term it wasn't for her, but would she still be working in local gov. in a few years time with the constant cuts they keep making?

They both keep up with their German language by reading on line and buying mags etc. The first novel I ever read in German was "Not without my daughter!" The eldest went with a group of German people to see a German comedian in London the other night, her hubby didn't go as he would not have understood any of it.

There's a saying in german "Alles wass mann fassen kann faengt mit einer grosser an!"

In other words if you can touch it you write it with a capital letter i.e. table, chair, book etc. but the intangible nouns i.e. faith, hope and charity all begin with capital letters.

Hope the link is helpful


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## thegypsyinme

Temperature Control: Equipment & Installations | Central heating systems | Germany | companies


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## Bluewho

Ah I see, that sounds lovely, being able to build your own place.

And thank you for your help and links, they will be helpful I'm sure. At the moment I think we need to focus on improving our language skills, and go again from there, the Federal Employment Agency have responded to me saying that a potential employer had rejected my CV because my understanding of the German language is not good enough, which is a shame but understandable.

Majority of central heating boilers that we install and maintain are Valliant, who are a German company making huge ground in the UK, becoming owners of another manufacturer called Glowworm. The company that I work for currently are on their "approved installer" database, so to find work in Germany that coincides with them would be great, but we shall see!


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## thegypsyinme

When I say it was a new build, I didn't mean we built it, we didn't, a local builder in the village did. 

You appear to be committed in seeing this through and I hope you get there:fingerscrossed: Maybe you could also look up german comics online for your children to browse through now and again . By the way, what type of work would your wife be looking for in Germany?


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## Bluewho

Thank you. I would certainly say that yes we are committed to it, as we recognise that our girls are only going to be children once, we only get one shot at raising them the best we can whilst they are young.

My wife hasn't worked for a while because of having the children, but when she did she worked in sales for one of the big six energy firms in the UK, and before that in sales for a big car manufacturer, but I think to get into it again she would try to get something quite simple, like a supermarket job or something similar.


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## beppi

Supermarket jobs are even worse paid than plumbers - around €6/hour for stacking shelves, slightly more for cashiers (if they are quick and efficient). This is for Western Germany, likely to be even lower in the East.
Germany is great for your kids if you can afford them all the great things it offers. 25% of kids here live in (relative) poverty and thus can't. There's more to it than meets the eye!


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## thegypsyinme

I worked in a drawing office for years as a detail draughtswoman. After having two au-pairs, both from IOW (not at the same time! mind!) was too much. The first was a disaster, bone idle!! The second was great, but I decided it was time for me to give up work and spend time at home with our daughters. When I wanted to go back to work a few years later I decided on part time and I applied for a job in one of the budget supermarkets which are now popular in the UK, the pay was actually better than the other german supermarkets in the area. The the other option was to work in a care home, I'd never done this type of work in my life and I decided on that - I cried nonstop for the fist few days and said to my husband that If I was still crying at the end of the week I wasn't' going back. I stayed for three years. Six months later we returned to the UK, unfortunately. I decided on that job as it really helped with my german and people contact. Besides the residents and their families there was also the staff who were great. Eventually the other foreign workers in the home chose me as their union representative and I used to sit in the monthly meetings taking minutes about the home and the staff in general. I loved the work, my daughters would come in after school as it was in the same town as their schools. They would serve the residents their hot drinks after lunch and just generally potter about until I finished my shift and went home.


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## Francesca888

One thing I do know is that if you immigrate to Germany your family MUST learn German (Deutsch) and pass an oral speaking test.


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## ALKB

Francesca888 said:


> One thing I do know is that if you immigrate to Germany your family MUST learn German (Deutsch) and pass an oral speaking test.


Not if they are family members of an EEA national exercising treaty rights in Germany.

Then no language requirements apply.

Apart from that, yes, learning the language will certainly make life easier.


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## Francesca888

ALKB said:


> Not if they are family members of an EEA national exercising treaty rights in Germany.
> 
> Then no language requirements apply.
> 
> Apart from that, yes, learning the language will certainly make life easier.


My daughter married a German national and after several years they moved to Germany. She was required to learn German and pass a test.


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## aussiemama

HI

A new life - why?

Moving countries, especially one where you aren't fluent in the language and are not guaranteed of a job is a HUGE bold move.

Not saying don't go, but why go?

We move every 2-3 years with my husbands employer, and have done a stint in SE Asia, so I talk from experience about cultural differences and language barriers.

Please make sure you have a job signed, sealed BEFORE you go - or have enough savings to last you several months just in case it's not as easy as you think. There are hundreds, if not thousands of EU citizens moving around the EU looking for a new life/new job/new start which means in some industry sectors, salaries aren't great, because there's lots of people looking for same work. I've no idea bout the construction/plumbing industry, but please research it before you go.

Also, what will you wife do while you're at work? She needs to have a degree of conversational German to be abel to shop, socialise, even hang out at the park with the kids and meet friends. It's very difficult at the best of times moving countries with little people -school age is better, tho not middle/high school from the perspective of meeting parents of your kids friends. 

How much support do you get now from family and friends? How will you cope with out it when you move? What sort of a social network do you and your wife have? How do you feel about starting over? 

There are so many areas to think about when considering an international move, especially with a young family in tow. 

I'm all for moving abroad, tho like all major decisions it must be done with a large amount of common sense, research and thinking with your head, not your heart.

Best of luck!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## FFMralph

I've lived here in Germany for over 30 years. Germany is a great place to live and work. But, as was already mentioned, you need to be fluent in the language. Because you are part of the European common wealth you can work here with no problem. But jobs still are not in abundance. You need to decide where you want to live and contact employers before moving. Cost of living and salaries vary quite a bit. Generally, Bavaria and large cites are the most expensive to live in. Medical insurance is top and social services are also very good. But get a job first. Find an apartment. Then move!


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## macois

A lot of the discussion would be similar for most developed countries around the world. Costs are high, wages are low and moving is hard. I am guessing you may be moving because you have these issues where you are living now. Therefore, I would say go ahead and make a change - move abroad and make a new life. You might find that a change helps you to find new opportunities and success in life.


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## mahesh113

*Need your inputs*

Hello everyone,

I have started looking for job in Germany, currently staying and working in New Delhi India, with big Multi National company. I want to working in Germany in my next job.
Please guide me how to find a better job in Software development there.
I need to website where I can apply for job online. 
What I plan is to get a job first then move to Germany.
Do you suggest me to first move to Germany with Job-seeker visa and then find a job?? Is it a good idea.
Please suggest me. 

I know Language can be an issue but I can take up a course only on basic.


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## FFMralph

Germany requires you to obtain a work permit before you can work here. To get a work permit you need a potential employer who is willing you to hire if you can obtain a resident visa. As an alien, you cannot work here until you are a resident.

You can apply for jobs on most company websites.


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