# Is Spanish Healthcare better or worse than UK?



## ss-suffolk

On thinking about living permanently in Spain a big question is healthcare. Especially for older people. Is medical care and the heath system better or worse than UK? I have been told the Spanish have better care than the British.
Advice, please?


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## Megsmum

ss-suffolk said:


> On thinking about living permanently in Spain a big question is healthcare. Especially for older people. Is medical care and the heath system better or worse than UK? I have been told the Spanish have better care than the British.
> Advice, please?


In what context? The Spanish healthcare has the same financial constraints that the NHS has.

I suspect there will be people who'll praise both systems and hate both systems.


Brexit of course may or may not have an impact on the eligibility to get healthcare here. That's probably more of a concern than who has the better care.


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## ss-suffolk

Megsmum said:


> In what context? The Spanish healthcare has the same financial constraints that the NHS has.
> 
> I suspect there will be people who'll praise both systems and hate both systems.
> 
> 
> Brexit of course may or may not have an impact on the eligibility to get healthcare here. That's probably more of a concern than who has the better care.


Thank you. The normal day to day context. Especially for older people. Where we live now in UK, general practitioners have 10 minutes to see a patient and determine what is wrong and what treatment to provide. It is difficult for the doctors and you sense the stress they are working under.

I had a heart procedure in Papworth and the treatment was fantastic, but it took from beginning of June to middle of December to go through the tests (MRI, angiogram, x-rays, ECGs, etc) with a serious problem and I was regarded as urgent. I cannot fault or criticise the treatment. Only the time could have been a problem. Luckily I'm still here!

I am thinking, what is it like in Spain? Is the system and treatment good? Better than UK?


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## pedro6

I can only speak as I find and I have had investigations/operations here (Denia) and found the system very good and at least on a par with the UK.
The major difference in my opinion is after care as in Spain the family is expected to stay overnight/and pop into the hospital during the day to help care for the patient (not medically but washing/help feeding etc)


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## Sputhafrica

I have always found medical care excellent in Spain, hospitals and surgeries excellent


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## Megsmum

ss-suffolk said:


> Thank you. The normal day to day context. Especially for older people. Where we live now in UK, general practitioners have 10 minutes to see a patient and determine what is wrong and what treatment to provide. It is difficult for the doctors and you sense the stress they are working under.
> 
> I had a heart procedure in Papworth and the treatment was fantastic, but it took from beginning of June to middle of December to go through the tests (MRI, angiogram, x-rays, ECGs, etc) with a serious problem and I was regarded as urgent. I cannot fault or criticise the treatment. Only the time could have been a problem. Luckily I'm still here!
> 
> I am thinking, what is it like in Spain? Is the system and treatment good? Better than UK?


I can see my GP On the day and the next day BUT I live in a village with less than 1500 inhabitants. The surgery is only open in the morning. Blood tests are Tuesday mornings, So no issues there. My husband had to have surgery, Carpal Tunnel, which although painful, not an urgent issue, took 18 months to be seen by Surgeons. I know an elderly English lady, who used to live here waited two years for her hip replacement, she's since had it, the care was excellent, and she has now moved to a house in the Canary Islands. As pedro says, family are generally expected to assist, in this ladies case, a friend assisted her

Again I stress, Brexit. The answers you will get, will also depend on your age, if healthcare paid for pensioners post Brexit will continue, whether or not you need private healthcare. They will depend, just like the U.k. your age, your requirements and your location.


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## mrypg9

ss-suffolk said:


> Thank you. The normal day to day context. Especially for older people. Where we live now in UK, general practitioners have 10 minutes to see a patient and determine what is wrong and what treatment to provide. It is difficult for the doctors and you sense the stress they are working under.
> 
> I had a heart procedure in Papworth and the treatment was fantastic, but it took from beginning of June to middle of December to go through the tests (MRI, angiogram, x-rays, ECGs, etc) with a serious problem and I was regarded as urgent. I cannot fault or criticise the treatment. Only the time could have been a problem. Luckily I'm still here!
> 
> I am thinking, what is it like in Spain? Is the system and treatment good? Better than UK?


The health care system in Spain is administered by the autonomous Regions. It cannot be compared to the NHS.
As in any organisation which is so diffuse and widespread standards will depend on many variables. I use the Andalusian Health Service and find the standard of everything very good indeed. But then I have never used the NHS to any great extent so can't make meaningful comparisons.

If your move to Spain is dependent on 'free' health care continuing as t present, i.e. the UK Government makes a contribution for each retired person resident in Spain to enable them to access regional services free of charge, you need to be aware that this may no longer be the case post-Brexit.


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## Lynn R

Personally, I have only had GP appointments in the state health system here in Andalucia, but know quite a few people who have been treated in the state system for serious illnesses such as cancer, heart problems, etc. and they have all been happy with the service. I have visited several people who have been hospitalised in the state system and been impressed by the cleanliness of the hospitals and the fact that patients are accommodated in rooms with no more than 2 beds and a bathroom shared between 2 patients.

I find it very easy to make medical appointments at my local health centre, in Andalucia there is a central system which covers every health centre where you can either ring one central number, or make the appointment online (which is what I do), or by text message. Same day appointments are normally available, and doctors will make home visits if requested by 10am if a patient is too ill to get to the health centre. We have two health centres in our town, one is open 24 hrs, 365 days a year (they have an Emergency Department which is always staffed) and the other is open from 8.00 am until 9pm. Doctors do work within time constraints for appointment slots, though, just like in the UK. There is little time for the social niceties or general chit chat, the staff are very professional and businesslike and you just say why you are there, answer any questions the doctor asks, they issue a prescription or request for tests and that's it, next please.

Do not underestimate the language problem, if you don't speak Spanish. Translators are not provided on request, at no charge, as they are in the UK. If you can't communicate in Spanish you are expected to arrange and bring along your own translator (although in Andalucia there is a telephone translation service, but I have never heard anyone say they have used it). In many hospitals (but not all, and not in health centres) they have a team of volunteer translators who can help in various languages.


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## emlyn

ss-suffolk said:


> On thinking about living permanently in Spain a big question is healthcare. Especially for older people. Is medical care and the heath system better or worse than UK? I have been told the Spanish have better care than the British.
> Advice, please?


My guess is health care in both Spain and the U.K. is subject to many factors/variables ranging from location,financial investment,staffing expertise ,etc . The resulting outcome being possibly best described as patchy.My own experience of medical care and the health system in Spain was that it was very good and comparable with the UK.
I note from your previous posts you describe yourself as a worrier and as having heart problems and have bought a property in a hilly area,as you ask for advice the best I can offer is ,Ten cuidado.As an afterthought ,if you are concerned re health system you may also need to consider social care ,i guess that depends on whether you are a permanent resident.


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## xabiaxica

I live in a town with 30,000 residents. We have two state health centres, one of which also has a 24/7 emergency service & is the ambulance station.

It's very rare that you can't get a next day, or even same day appointment with a GP if you can be flexible as far as appointment times are concerned. Appointments can be made online too, so no need to phone during surgery hours & hang on for someone to answer the phone.

All 3 of us have had referrals to various specialists at the local state hospital & have found that referrals are usually pretty fast. Surgery waiting lists vary depending on the dpartment - but they made the effort to time my then teenager's tonsil operation to fit in around school holidays & even a holiday away!

We've also had cause to use the emergency facilities at the main hospital - including emergency life-saving surgery for my daughter & I can't fault them at all. I was also grateful to have a put you up bed in the same room as my daughter - a private room with a private shower. This is standard in that hospital for all patients.

The home visit aftercare once she was released was excellent, too.

Someone mentioned that family are expected to help with the after care of patients. Yes this is the usual way for things to be done - but (at least in our hospital) there are staff to change sheets etc & help with feeding if you have no family to do it for you.


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## dmret

My wife had a bad fall last Monday. On Friday she had her arm/shoulder joint replaced. Hospital care superb. One thing, the hospital expects a family member to be with the patient and if necessary to sleep over.


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## Alcalaina

I can't compare Spain with the UK but I can compare the situation now with when I arrived here in 2008.

I've seen first-hand the effect of EU-imposed "austerity", i.e. spending cuts, on the Andalucian health service. The staff do their best and are well qualified but are stretched to the limit. Over the last eight years staff have not been replaced, waiting times have increased, there is less choice of prescription meds (generic only), and families staying with children overnight have had to sleep in armchairs because the spare beds were in use for patients. I'm still waiting for an MRI appointment that I went on the waiting list for last November (in the end I went private because I couldn't wait!)

But I live in hope that things will return to how they were. For political reasons, I think that's more likely here in Andalucia than in England.


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## Alcalaina

dmret said:


> My wife had a bad fall last Monday. On Friday she had her arm/shoulder joint replaced. Hospital care superb. One thing, the hospital expects a family member to be with the patient and if necessary to sleep over.


Ouch! Hope she's on the mend now.

Were you aware of the care arrangements beforehand? It is one of the biggest differences between the British and Spanish systems, and takes a lot of people by surprise.


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## ss-suffolk

A big thank you to all who have contributed.

From your replies I can see that I should have no fear of health treatment. Probably a typical biased English way of thinking, but this was one of the reasons that I was frightened to take the plunge and leave UK to live in Spain. Now I feel much more relaxed at the idea of living in Spain permanently. Another impression I have is that dental care is better in UK, again based with no experience, so I think I'll ask this question soon!

Thanks again to all, with good wishes for those who have had treatment and are recovering.


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## pedro6

ss-suffolk said:


> A big thank you to all who have contributed.
> 
> From your replies I can see that I should have no fear of health treatment. Probably a typical biased English way of thinking, but this was one of the reasons that I was frightened to take the plunge and leave UK to live in Spain. Now I feel much more relaxed at the idea of living in Spain permanently. Another impression I have is that dental care is better in UK, again based with no experience, so I think I'll ask this question soon!
> 
> Thanks again to all, with good wishes for those who have had treatment and are recovering.


Dental care is cheaper and in my experience better than the UK so good luck on your move.


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## Lynn R

Pretty much all dentistry is private here, apart from some emergency treatment provided at health centres and treatment for children. I have found the Spanish dentists I have used (albeit for nothing more complicated than an annual check-up and cleaning during the 10.5 years I've been here) to be very good and have all the latest hi-tech equipment. My annual cleaning costs €40 and the hygienist is very thorough, it took over 40 minutes a month or so ago.


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## ss-suffolk

Ok, thank you pedro6 & Lynn R.

Now I don't need to ask the question!

Our decision has now been made this weekend! We shall move to Alcaucín permanently on 01 November, after 2 car trips.

You all have nailed it!


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## dmret

No, and I still don't.


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## snikpoh

I can't compare the two anymore because I haven't needed the NHS for over 10 years since we moved here.

However, over 12 months ago, I was diagnosed with two more slipped and ruptured discs (had 4 operations already back in UK). Every step of the 'diagnosis' has taken forever. I have been waiting for over 4 months now for an MRI before they can discuss options.

This maybe the same, better or worse than in UK - I simply don't know.


I've also, recently, been diagnosed with 'possible' bowel cancer. From the initial test, then the colonoscopy then the results of the biopsy took 7 months. I have now been waiting 3 1/2 months to see the expert to, again, decide on next steps.


The actual service has always been excellent but the time taken to see anyone seems to be very poor.


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## Isobella

Lynn R said:


> Pretty much all dentistry is private here, apart from some emergency treatment provided at health centres and treatment for children. I have found the Spanish dentists I have used (albeit for nothing more complicated than an annual check-up and cleaning during the 10.5 years I've been here) to be very good and have all the latest hi-tech equipment. My annual cleaning costs €40 and the hygienist is very thorough, it took over 40 minutes a month or so ago.


The difference is with the U.K. That it is subsidised and for lower incomes, and children free. I had root canal, various other things including two crowns for about £250. Quite a high cost in Spain for braces etc.


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## Megsmum

Isobella said:


> The difference is with the U.K. That it is subsidised and for lower incomes, and children free. I had root canal, various other things including two crowns for about £250. Quite a high cost in Spain for braces etc.



If you can find a reliable and decent NHS dentist. My daughter recently moved house, ended up going private as could not find an NHS dentist in her immediate area


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## Alcalaina

There are good and bad dentists everywhere, you have to ask around for recommendations. My current one, who is Argentinian, is the best I've ever had. I hope he lives forever!

Bridges, crowns etc are on average one-third cheaper here than in the UK or Northern Europe; people come here especially for dental treatment.


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## Megsmum

Alcalaina said:


> There are good and bad dentists everywhere, you have to ask around for recommendations. My current one, who is Argentinian, is the best I've ever had. I hope he lives forever!
> 
> Bridges, crowns etc are on average one-third cheaper here than in the UK or Northern Europe; people come here especially for dental treatment.


Agreed, the issue in the U.K. Is actually finding an NHS dentist.  My daughter has most of her treatments done in Albania when she visits her partners family. Remembering of course many many many dentists in the U.K. are from EU countries, filling another gap in the U.K. Healthcare system. Pardon the pun


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## ss-suffolk

snikpoh said:


> I can't compare the two anymore because I haven't needed the NHS for over 10 years since we moved here.
> 
> However, over 12 months ago, I was diagnosed with two more slipped and ruptured discs (had 4 operations already back in UK). Every step of the 'diagnosis' has taken forever. I have been waiting for over 4 months now for an MRI before they can discuss options.
> 
> This maybe the same, better or worse than in UK - I simply don't know.
> 
> 
> I've also, recently, been diagnosed with 'possible' bowel cancer. From the initial test, then the colonoscopy then the results of the biopsy took 7 months. I have now been waiting 3 1/2 months to see the expert to, again, decide on next steps.
> 
> 
> The actual service has always been excellent but the time taken to see anyone seems to be very poor.


Possibly similar in UK. I retired in May last year and after 1 week was getting slight chest pains. 2 ECGs, 1 x-ray, an angiogram, after 3 months a diagnosis of over 90% blockage on one heart artery and over 70% on another. I was considered priority and because I was going to Spain for Xmas I was very kindly brought forward to 2nd week in December as one of the last non-accident/emergency cases. In summary a total of 6 months wait for what my GP told me was serious.

Treatment with 2 stents was excellent, at Papworth. Fantastic, but a long wait.

Of course it would have been immediate if I was having a heart attack. I was told to simply call an ambulance and treatment would be straight away.


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## mrypg9

ss-suffolk said:


> A big thank you to all who have contributed.
> 
> From your replies I can see that I should have no fear of health treatment. Probably a typical biased English way of thinking, but this was one of the reasons that I was frightened to take the plunge and leave UK to live in Spain. Now I feel much more relaxed at the idea of living in Spain permanently. Another impression I have is that dental care is better in UK, again based with no experience, so I think I'll ask this question soon!
> 
> Thanks again to all, with good wishes for those who have had treatment and are recovering.


No, you need have no fear of health treatment here but you do need to consider very carefully the fact that this 'free' healthcare may not be available when (if) we leave the EU.
There is an arrangement whereby you can buy into the Spanish systems (I think it's on offer in all regions) at a cost of around 140 euros a month. You also have to pay the full price for any prescriptions.
The current meds I take cost me under 5 euros monthly. The pre-subsidy cost is over 50 euros. My partner had three items on prescription recently, one of which alone had a 'real' cost of over 40 euros.
The way our almost unbelievably incompetent Government is approaching the Brexit negotiations is so unrealistic, bordering on the farcical, that unless reality gets a grip we may well be simply ejected from the EU with no agreement of any kind in place.
In which case, the position of EU citizens living in other EU states could be precarious, to say the least.


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## xabiaxica

mrypg9 said:


> No, you need have no fear of health treatment here but you do need to consider very carefully the fact that this 'free' healthcare may not be available when (if) we leave the EU.
> *There is an arrangement whereby you can buy into the Spanish systems (I think it's on offer in all regions) at a cost of around 140 euros a month. You also have to pay the full price for any prescriptions.*
> The current meds I take cost me under 5 euros monthly. The pre-subsidy cost is over 50 euros. My partner had three items on prescription recently, one of which alone had a 'real' cost of over 40 euros.
> The way our almost unbelievably incompetent Government is approaching the Brexit negotiations is so unrealistic, bordering on the farcical, that unless reality gets a grip we may well be simply ejected from the EU with no agreement of any kind in place.
> In which case, the position of EU citizens living in other EU states could be precarious, to say the least.


It isn't available everywhere, & you have to have been a registered resident for a year before you qualify.


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## mrypg9

Do you know which regions offer this, Xabia


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## pedro6

mrypg9 said:


> Do you know which regions offer this, Xabia


I believe the following:
Andalucia
Canarias
Castilla Y Leon
Galicia
Madrid
Murcia
Valencia


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## baldilocks

The basic answer to the OP's question is "Yes" but it depends on where you are.

Having had pneumonia which necessitated a stay in hospital while they also investigated a "lump" in my right lung and two heart attacks, I cannot fault the service in Spain. 

I live in a village (about 4,500 pop.) and we have 24 hour coverage. Out of hours, we have a Dr, a nurse an ambulance and driver at the health centre. The system works well because we have a plastic card which gives access to our medical records so that for the most part, no matter which health centre/hospital you go to, they can access your medical records unlike in the UK, where, if you go to other than your own Dr (e.g. Out of hours or to hospital in an emergency) they have no access to your records so do not know your history, your current medication, any allergies, etc. All right you can tell them if you can remember *and* are conscious.


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## Pesky Wesky

baldilocks said:


> The system works well because we have a plastic card which gives access to our medical records so that for the most part, no matter which health centre/hospital you go to, they can access your medical records unlike in the UK, where, if you go to other than your own Dr (e.g. Out of hours or to hospital in an emergency) they have no access to your records so do not know your history, your current medication, any allergies, etc. All right you can tell them if you can remember *and* are conscious.


Still no computer access to patient's records in the UK?
From what I've seen on the health service here (Madrid) it seems to work well. I have friends with serious illnesses are they are very well catered for with references to cancer treatment, diabetis, gout, appendicitis, the severe pain unit, multiple esclerosis...
One difficulty that I have had in the past has been a lack of sympathetic hospital/ clinic staff in general from the doctor in the medical centre to the nurses in hospitals - efficient but no "beside manner". Now in fact I do have a nice, and good doctor. Also I find that if you have an identifiable condition they are on top of it. If you go because you have a pain/ difficulty and you would like to know the cause or what to do to stop it getting worse it's a no go area. Once the problem has escalated and you need to go to some kind of specialist Bingo, the attention is there...

Oh and a neighbour of mine's mother with Alzheimer's is receiving excellent care somewhere in Andalucia. She goes to some kind of school and has "lessons" every day like arithmetic and spelling. She is Spanish of course, but good to know that in some places they are making provision for older people


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## Megsmum

baldilocks said:


> The basic answer to the OP's question is "Yes" but it depends on where you are.
> 
> Having had pneumonia which necessitated a stay in hospital while they also investigated a "lump" in my right lung and two heart attacks, I cannot fault the service in Spain.
> 
> I live in a village (about 4,500 pop.) and we have 24 hour coverage. Out of hours, we have a Dr, a nurse an ambulance and driver at the health centre. The system works well because we have a plastic card which gives access to our medical records so that for the most part, no matter which health centre/hospital you go to, they can access your medical records unlike in the UK, where, if you go to other than your own Dr (e.g. Out of hours or to hospital in an emergency) they have no access to your records so do not know your history, your current medication, any allergies, etc. All right you can tell them if you can remember *and* are conscious.


Our region does not give out plastic cards, sheet of paper 



Pesky Wesky said:


> Still no computer access to patient's records in the UK?
> From what I've seen on the health service here (Madrid) it seems to work well. I have friends with serious illnesses are they are very well catered for with references to cancer treatment, diabetis, gout, appendicitis, the severe pain unit, multiple esclerosis...
> One difficulty that I have had in the past has been a lack of sympathetic hospital/ clinic staff in general from the doctor in the medical centre to the nurses in hospitals - efficient but no "beside manner". Now in fact I do have a nice, and good doctor. Also I find that if you have an identifiable condition they are on top of it. If you go because you have a pain/ difficulty and you would like to know the cause or what to do to stop it getting worse it's a no go area. Once the problem has escalated and you need to go to some kind of specialist Bingo, the attention is there...
> 
> Oh and a neighbour of mine's mother with Alzheimer's is receiving excellent care somewhere in Andalucia. She goes to some kind of school and has "lessons" every day like arithmetic and spelling. She is Spanish of course, but good to know that in some places they are making provision for older people



Most hospitals and GPS have computerized records now, but it's not terribly joined up, but it's getting there. As a theatres nurse I could access patients medical records from mine and other trusts, check blood results online etc. We also had a system of sharing X-rays and imaging with other trusts. So it is getting better than when I started. 

All patient care plans are now computerized, so a print out from admission to discharge can be had


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## baldilocks

Megsmum said:


> *Our region does not give out plastic cards, sheet of paper*


You mean to say that you don't have a "tarjeta sanitaria?"


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## jimenato

Alcalaina said:


> There are good and bad dentists everywhere, you have to ask around for recommendations. My current one, who is Argentinian, is the best I've ever had. I hope he lives forever!
> 
> Bridges, crowns etc are on average one-third cheaper here than in the UK or Northern Europe; people come here especially for dental treatment.


That's funny - two of our dentists in Spain were Argentinian - I wonder if that's a thing.

There's a chance that one of ours was the same as yours geographically. He practised in Los Barrios and fitted a 5 tooth bridge (he called it a fence) to OH for 1350 Euros. I'm guessing it would have been loads more in the UK.


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## baldilocks

jimenato said:


> That's funny - two of our dentists in Spain were Argentinian - I wonder if that's a thing.
> 
> There's a chance that one of ours was the same as yours geographically. He practised in Los Barrios and fitted a 5 tooth bridge (he called it a fence) to OH for 1350 Euros. I'm guessing it would have been loads more in the UK.


The dentists in our village are Argentinian as well - a husband and wife team.


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## Pesky Wesky

Megsmum said:


> Our region does not give out plastic cards, sheet of paper


Are you sure that the sheet of paper is a permanent thing? Don't other people have a card?
RE computerised patient notes, up to a couple of years ago patients here were responsible for their xrays, but now you aren't given anything and neither is the doctor; they are accessed online by the doctor.


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## Pesky Wesky

snikpoh said:


> I've also, recently, been diagnosed with 'possible' bowel cancer. From the initial test, then the colonoscopy then the results of the biopsy took 7 months. I have now been waiting 3 1/2 months to see the expert to, again, decide on next steps.
> 
> 
> The actual service has always been excellent but the time taken to see anyone seems to be very poor.


Wow, that's a long time. I thought cancer diagnosis was supposed to be a matter of weeks, not months.


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## Isobella

snikpoh said:


> I can't compare the two anymore because I haven't needed the NHS for over 10 years since we moved here.
> 
> However, over 12 months ago, I was diagnosed with two more slipped and ruptured discs (had 4 operations already back in UK). Every step of the 'diagnosis' has taken forever. I have been waiting for over 4 months now for an MRI before they can discuss options.
> 
> This maybe the same, better or worse than in UK - I simply don't know.
> 
> 
> I've also, recently, been diagnosed with 'possible' bowel cancer. From the initial test, then the colonoscopy then the results of the biopsy took 7 months. I have now been waiting 3 1/2 months to see the expert to, again, decide on next steps.
> 
> 
> The actual service has always been excellent but the time taken to see anyone seems to be very poor.


Suspected cancer in UK now has a two week rule maximum to see a consultant. My neighbour found a lump in her breast and saw a consultant two days later. After biopsy, pre med etc. She is due to be admitted this week, two and a half weeks after she first saw her GP.

Had recent experience with OH. He has been diagnosed with Discitus, something we had never heard of. At first they were looking at tropical diseases, long story. When he detiorated he was given an MRI and a CT scan in one day as a secondary cancer was suspected. The Consultant rang me at 7.15 pm to tell me cancer had been ruled out. After spending time in Worthing hospital and being transferred to the spinal unit at Brighton he is now home. A nurse comes daily as he is having intravenous antibiotics through a stent directly to his spine for at least six weeks. They spend an hour also checking everything else and are absolutely amazing, in addition they have been a great support for me. Couldn't fault them, absolutely dedicated.

Not just Spain and UK that is overloaded it seems to be a problem in many countries, new procedures bring new patients, can only get worse.


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## Isobella

Pesky Wesky said:


> Are you sure that the sheet of paper is a permanent thing? Don't other people have a card?
> RE computerised patient notes, up to a couple of years ago patients here were responsible for their xrays, but now you aren't given anything and neither is the doctor; they are accessed online by the doctor.


Same in UK along with a report.


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## ss-suffolk

Can you ask your UK doctor/dentist to give you your medical/dental records to bring with you to Spain if you decide to live permanently?


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## cermignano

In Scotland computerised records accessed immediately. Had to go to doctor in rural Highlands a couple of weeks ago with mum. Glasgow records flagged up right away. Temp doc phoned mum's and immediate treatment


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## ss-suffolk

Excellent. I hope Scotland can join Europe soon!


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## ss-suffolk

mrypg9 said:


> No, you need have no fear of health treatment here but you do need to consider very carefully the fact that this 'free' healthcare may not be available when (if) we leave the EU.
> There is an arrangement whereby you can buy into the Spanish systems (I think it's on offer in all regions) at a cost of around 140 euros a month. You also have to pay the full price for any prescriptions.
> The current meds I take cost me under 5 euros monthly. The pre-subsidy cost is over 50 euros. My partner had three items on prescription recently, one of which alone had a 'real' cost of over 40 euros.
> The way our almost unbelievably incompetent Government is approaching the Brexit negotiations is so unrealistic, bordering on the farcical, that unless reality gets a grip we may well be simply ejected from the EU with no agreement of any kind in place.
> In which case, the position of EU citizens living in other EU states could be precarious, to say the least.


The more I hear everyday in UK the more it is worrying. It is though UK is very important and 27 countries in Europe who work together as Europe are not. Negotiations?... I think not!


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## pedro6

ss-suffolk said:


> Can you ask your UK doctor/dentist to give you your medical/dental records to bring with you to Spain if you decide to live permanently?


I left the UK in 1998 and obtained my medical records from the hospital to bring with me but not dental records.
If you sign a consent and probably pay a few pounds I do not think legally the Dr, dentist or hospital can refuse.


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## snikpoh

Pesky Wesky said:


> Wow, that's a long time. I thought cancer diagnosis was supposed to be a matter of weeks, not months.


Yes, from the initial test it was only 2 or 3 weeks to get the colonoscopy. Then the delays kicked in taking ages to tell me the results and even longer for further consultation/action.

I am however told that bowel cancer is one of the slowest growing forms!


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## snikpoh

pedro6 said:


> I left the UK in 1998 and obtained my medical records from the hospital to bring with me but not dental records.
> If you sign a consent and probably pay a few pounds I do not think legally the Dr, dentist or hospital can refuse.


It's about (or was about) £50 to get records printed off.


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## Lynn R

Isobella said:


> Suspected cancer in UK now has a two week rule maximum to see a consultant. My neighbour found a lump in her breast and saw a consultant two days later. After biopsy, pre med etc. She is due to be admitted this week, two and a half weeks after she first saw her GP.
> 
> Had recent experience with OH. He has been diagnosed with Discitus, something we had never heard of. At first they were looking at tropical diseases, long story. When he detiorated he was given an MRI and a CT scan in one day as a secondary cancer was suspected. The Consultant rang me at 7.15 pm to tell me cancer had been ruled out. After spending time in Worthing hospital and being transferred to the spinal unit at Brighton he is now home. A nurse comes daily as he is having intravenous antibiotics through a stent directly to his spine for at least six weeks. They spend an hour also checking everything else and are absolutely amazing, in addition they have been a great support for me. Couldn't fault them, absolutely dedicated.
> 
> Not just Spain and UK that is overloaded it seems to be a problem in many countries, new procedures bring new patients, can only get worse.


Sorry to hear that your husband has been ill. It's good that he is now on the mend and receiving such excellent treatment.


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## jimenato

snikpoh said:


> Yes, from the initial test it was only 2 or 3 weeks to get the colonoscopy. Then the delays kicked in taking ages to tell me the results and even longer for further consultation/action.
> 
> I am however told that bowel cancer is one of the slowest growing forms!


For me - from first GP visit to colonoscopy was a couple of months. 

The people were great - the Hospital (La Linea) was frankly dreadful. I don't suppose it's a fair comparison but the difference between that and Southmead Hospital in Bristol where we have spent a lot of time recently is astonishing.


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## baldilocks

If you are bringing records from UK you will need to have them translated by somebody who knows medical terminology. They will, however, not be added to your Spanish records but may act as a guidance to your Spanish GP regarding your history.

Hospitals tend to vary. Empathy on behalf of the nursing staff is a low priority and you may find them a little brusque. The Doctors, I have found to be on the whole, good to excellent.


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## Isobella

snikpoh said:


> Yes, from the initial test it was only 2 or 3 weeks to get the colonoscopy. Then the delays kicked in taking ages to tell me the results and even longer for further consultation/action.
> 
> I am however told that bowel cancer is one of the slowest growing forms!


Hopefully it will be because the result is not confirmed. In many cases patients are told it is cancer after the colonoscopy and confirmed a couple of days later by a biopsy.


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## Isobella

jimenato said:


> For me - from first GP visit to colonoscopy was a couple of months.
> 
> The people were great - the Hospital (La Linea) was frankly dreadful. I don't suppose it's a fair comparison but the difference between that and Southmead Hospital in Bristol where we have spent a lot of time recently is astonishing.


La Linea seems to have a bad reputation compared to other Spanish hospitals. There was an article in Sur recently that over 200 patients had been transferred from there to Carlos Haya, Malaga.


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## pedro6

baldilocks said:


> If you are bringing records from UK you will need to have them translated by somebody who knows medical terminology. They will, however, not be added to your Spanish records but may act as a guidance to your Spanish GP regarding your history.
> 
> Hospitals tend to vary. Empathy on behalf of the nursing staff is a low priority and you may find them a little brusque. The Doctors, I have found to be on the whole, good to excellent.


I did not go to the expense of having my records translated as the specialist I used in Spain understood the records and you may be lucky.

The bed side manner in Spain in my experience does not exist in fact you will find please and thank you is not used in general, it is the culture and you will get used to it.


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## baldilocks

pedro6 said:


> The bed side manner in Spain in my experience does not exist in fact you will find please and thank you is not used in general, it is the culture and you will get used to it.


Much depends on the degree of rapport one can create with the professional concerned. In some cases, there can be instant rapport, in other cases, it will be an uphill struggle to overcome barriers. It all depends on the attitude taken by the patient and the willingness of the professional to lower defences. In many cases, I have found the first and best way is ask the other person her or his name and to, then, use it either in its raw form if it is a nurse or equivalent or preceded by 'Don/Doña' if it is a Doctor. If the Doctor is happy for you to use just the forename, he or she will tell you. Using this method I have found that I get on great/all right with all the doctors/specialists that I have dealt with and many of them relax enough to say just use the forename - something you will rarely find in the UK.


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## Megsmum

baldilocks said:


> You mean to say that you don't have a "tarjeta sanitaria?"





Pesky Wesky said:


> Are you sure that the sheet of paper is a permanent thing? Don't other people have a card?
> RE computerised patient notes, up to a couple of years ago patients here were responsible for their xrays, but now you aren't given anything and neither is the doctor; they are accessed online by the doctor.





> relax enough to say just use the forename - something you will rarely find in the UK.


Not true, many many younger Drs and specialists go by their first names. Most nurses do as well. Even as a nurse over the past 15 years I've never addressed a medical colleague by the title and surname, those days are fading fast. They'll always be the odd one but in my experience they're no longer the norm 


Anyone who came to Extremadura post 2012 who is entitled to tarjeta de sanitaria be it through Working, autónomo or retired S1 no longer gets the plastic card. We get a pice of paper showing our entitlement to state healthcare. My GP gets frustrated as my lack of plastic card means, she can't load drug prescriptions onto it. 

So yes we have tarjeta de sanatoria but it's just not plastic.... it may or may not take two years to arrive.


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## snikpoh

Isobella said:


> Hopefully it will be because the result is not confirmed. In many cases patients are told it is cancer after the colonoscopy and confirmed a couple of days later by a biopsy.


OK, I went to the doctor a week after but he was off ill (!), the locum refused to discuss the results. A week and a half later my doctor confirmed the biopsy as "aggressive" cancer. I am now waiting to see the specialist which is (or seems to me) to be taking forever.


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## pedro6

snikpoh said:


> OK, I went to the doctor a week after but he was off ill (!), the locum refused to discuss the results. A week and a half later my doctor confirmed the biopsy as "aggressive" cancer. I am now waiting to see the specialist which is (or seems to me) to be taking forever.


Sorry to hear that and I hope all goes well.

My wife had serious problems with her health and as you say it seemed forever to get an operation sorted but I eventually completed a reclamacion against the hospital (Denia have a person with an office dedicated to reclamaciones) and low and behold the operation was carried out within a week.
My own experience in Denia has been positive both at the old Denia hospital and the new, I have undergone 5 operations there during my time in Spain.


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## Lynn R

snikpoh said:


> OK, I went to the doctor a week after but he was off ill (!), the locum refused to discuss the results. A week and a half later my doctor confirmed the biopsy as "aggressive" cancer. I am now waiting to see the specialist which is (or seems to me) to be taking forever.


Sorry to hear that, and hope your treatment will be successful.


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## Alcalaina

jimenato said:


> That's funny - two of our dentists in Spain were Argentinian - I wonder if that's a thing.
> 
> There's a chance that one of ours was the same as yours geographically. He practised in Los Barrios and fitted a 5 tooth bridge (he called it a fence) to OH for 1350 Euros. I'm guessing it would have been loads more in the UK.


What a coincidence! His name is Benjamin and he and his partner moved to Spain so they could get married (same-sex marriages weren't legal in Argentina...)


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## jimenato

Isobella said:


> La Linea seems to have a bad reputation compared to other Spanish hospitals. There was an article in Sur recently that over 200 patients had been transferred from there to Carlos Haya, Malaga.


Yes - it is a very old hospital. A new one was built some years ago but has remained unused and empty. I hear it will finally be opened this summer.


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## Isobella

pedro6 said:


> I did not go to the expense of having my records translated as the specialist I used in Spain understood the records and you may be lucky.
> 
> The bed side manner in Spain in my experience does not exist in fact you will find please and thank you is not used in general, it is the culture and you will get used to it.


When OH was under investigation for source of infection the Consultant he saw in respiratory, Chichester was Spanish. She had been practising in Northern Spain but her family came from San Pedro de Alcantara, just around the corner from where we bought our first property. She was very informal. When she sent a report to his GP we were sent a copy. It began strangely, in a nice way. *Thank you for referring this lovely Gentleman to the chest clinic today, who came along with his lovely wife.*


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## Isobella

snikpoh said:


> OK, I went to the doctor a week after but he was off ill (!), the locum refused to discuss the results. A week and a half later my doctor confirmed the biopsy as "aggressive" cancer. I am now waiting to see the specialist which is (or seems to me) to be taking forever.


Hope all goes well. I did read that Bowel cancer has a good survival rate.


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## Pesky Wesky

snikpoh said:


> OK, I went to the doctor a week after but he was off ill (!), the locum refused to discuss the results. A week and a half later my doctor confirmed the biopsy as "aggressive" cancer. I am now waiting to see the specialist which is (or seems to me) to be taking forever.


If you are up to it I believe you can phone, explain your case and ask what's happening. Or go to your doctor/ health centre and ask if it's normal to have to wait so long. I know it doesn't help you, but I don't think you'd have to wait so long in Madrid and maybe there's been an oversight...


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## Isobella

mrypg9 said:


> No, you need have no fear of health treatment here but you do need to consider very carefully the fact that this 'free' healthcare may not be available when (if) we leave the EU.
> There is an arrangement whereby you can buy into the Spanish systems (I think it's on offer in all regions) at a cost of around 140 euros a month. You also have to pay the full price for any prescriptions.
> The current meds I take cost me under 5 euros monthly. The pre-subsidy cost is over 50 euros. My partner had three items on prescription recently, one of which alone had a 'real' cost of over 40 euros.
> .


Good points. The intravenous antibiotics OH is having cost around £130 PW. And has to have it for at least 6 weeks.Then there are the costs of dressings etc. He also is having strong painkillers don't know their cost. As new medications are developed costs spiral, not everything can be treated with a couple of euros of ibuprofen.


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## mrypg9

Isobella said:


> Good points. The intravenous antibiotics OH is having cost around £130 PW. And has to have it for at least 6 weeks.Then there are the costs of dressings etc. He also is having strong painkillers don't know their cost. As new medications are developed costs spiral, not everything can be treated with a couple of euros of ibuprofen.


Unless I were 100% certain that I was able to pay the cost of the Convenio Especial plus any drugs I might need no way would I consider a permanent move anywhere in the EU until I knew exactly what would be the future of the 'free' health care we currently enjoy.
We're talking here of a possible 200 euros a month per person, maybe more if expensive drugs are needed.
Am I right in saying that the monthly cost of the Convenio is 150 euros for over 65s?
So for a couple with severe chronic conditions we could b.e looking at 400 month per couple?
Not being alarmist but it's a real possibility that the current arrangement could be withdrawn


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## Lynn R

mrypg9 said:


> Unless I were 100% certain that I was able to pay the cost of the Convenio Especial plus any drugs I might need no way would I consider a permanent move anywhere in the EU until I knew exactly what would be the future of the 'free' health care we currently enjoy.
> We're talking here of a possible 200 euros a month per person, maybe more if expensive drugs are needed.
> Am I right in saying that the monthly cost of the Convenio is 150 euros for over 65s?
> So for a couple with severe chronic conditions we could b.e looking at 400 month per couple?
> Not being alarmist but it's a real possibility that the current arrangement could be withdrawn


Yes, the Convenio Especial currently costs €157 per month for those aged 65 or over, so €314 for a couple, plus 100% of the costs of any medications required - which could be very expensive indeed.


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## Roy C

We were going to do the Convenio after a year but I think we will just do the private route.


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## Lynn R

Roy C said:


> We were going to do the Convenio after a year but I think we will just do the private route.


The big advantage of the Convenio Especial for people who have pre exisiting conditions is that it covers everything, no questions asked.

The private route has certainly worked out cheaper for us. My husband is now 67 and his private cover currently costs €62 per month (same as mine) whereas he'd be paying €157 per month for the Convenio Especial (plus €60 for me).

It is swings and roundabouts, really. There are no limits on treatment under the Convenio Especial (other than those imposed by the system, eg generic drugs may be prescribed for patients in the state system rather than more expensive versions). However, waiting times will usually be shorter in the private system.

The full costs of medication would normally have to be paid for under either system (there are some insurance companies who will reimburse a proportion of medication costs but those policies would be more expensive anyway).

We're thankful we kept our private health insurance on after we became eligible for S1s and could register with the Spanish state system, as we will have that to fall back on should the S1 system be withdrawn either after Brexit or for some other reason (cuts, for example). Although hopefully, having been resident here before 2012, we could take the "sin recursos" route to retain eligibility for state treatment, so long as that remains available.


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## Roy C

Thankfully at the minute we don't have any pre existing conditions but we might see how it goes in the first year and review it. I was thinking of waiting lists etc in the state system.


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## Kikie

So far we have found:-

We can buy most meds including antibiotics over the counter, for less than in the UK. If you go in with an example of your UK prescribed meds you can usually buy most of those. Personally I think this is a risky practice, both in terms of safety for the patient and also for accurate record keeping for data analysis of prevalent conditions in an area. Have to say it has been convenient though.

We have only seen private doctors as we don't have our residencia sorted yet so cant use the national system yet. Costs were very reasonable. These 3 doctors were quick and efficient (though one made sure I had to pay for 2 visits when he could, and should, have given me the extra prescription on the first visit). All spoke good English but in both towns there were/are a lot of Brits to cater to. 

We have seen that doctors outside the big towns seem to be part-time and cover several areas. 

We were originally thinking we might stay here until we are (more) decrepit so asked around about nursing homes and old age care. The results made us reconsider. Spain is not big on these things. As others have said, you are expected to have family to look after you apart from the actual medical care.


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## baldilocks

Kikie said:


> So far we have found:-
> 
> We can buy most meds including antibiotics over the counter, for less than in the UK. If you go in with an example of your UK prescribed meds you can usually buy most of those. Personally I think this is a risky practice, both in terms of safety for the patient and also for accurate record keeping for data analysis of prevalent conditions in an area. Have to say it has been convenient though.
> 
> We have only seen private doctors as we don't have our residencia sorted yet so cant use the national system yet. Costs were very reasonable. These 3 doctors were quick and efficient (though one made sure I had to pay for 2 visits when he could, and should, have given me the extra prescription on the first visit). All spoke good English but in both towns there were/are a lot of Brits to cater to.
> 
> We have seen that doctors outside the big towns seem to be part-time and cover several areas.
> 
> *We were originally thinking we might stay here until we are (more) decrepit so asked around about nursing homes and old age care. The results made us reconsider. Spain is not big on these things. As others have said, you are expected to have family to look after you apart from the actual medical care.*


There is quite a lot of use made of private carers, often from Ecuador or other countries in S. America and they are, on the whole, quite or very good (from what we have seen.) Most places do have a "Residencia" for the elderly and infirm who have no family and are unable to look after themselves. Many of the Residencias also have a day care option where elderly can go (there is often some transport picking them up) to socialise, giving relief to family members. Of course, I can only comment on what is here in our village but, I believe, similar is on offer elsewhere.


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## xabiaxica

Kikie said:


> So far we have found:-
> 
> We can buy most meds including antibiotics over the counter, for less than in the UK. If you go in with an example of your UK prescribed meds you can usually buy most of those. Personally I think this is a risky practice, both in terms of safety for the patient and also for accurate record keeping for data analysis of prevalent conditions in an area. Have to say it has been convenient though.
> 
> We have only seen private doctors as we don't have our residencia sorted yet so cant use the national system yet. Costs were very reasonable. These 3 doctors were quick and efficient (though one made sure I had to pay for 2 visits when he could, and should, have given me the extra prescription on the first visit). All spoke good English but in both towns there were/are a lot of Brits to cater to.
> 
> We have seen that doctors outside the big towns seem to be part-time and cover several areas.
> 
> We were originally thinking we might stay here until we are (more) decrepit so asked around about nursing homes and old age care. The results made us reconsider. Spain is not big on these things. As others have said, you are expected to have family to look after you apart from the actual medical care.


Lots of meds which are prescription only in the UK are available OTC in Spain.

That doesn't include antibiotics though. It's actually illegal to sell them without a prescription. Admittedly some farmacias will sell them to you - but they risk their licence by doing so!


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## Lynn R

Kikie said:


> We were originally thinking we might stay here until we are (more) decrepit so asked around about nursing homes and old age care. The results made us reconsider. Spain is not big on these things. As others have said, you are expected to have family to look after you apart from the actual medical care.


No doubt it varies greatly between areas, but in my area there doesn't seem to be any shortages of "residencias" offering full time care for the elderly, both private and public. You can check availability in various areas via this website:-

Residencias tercera edad - Tercera-edad.org - Directorio de residencias geri?tricas

According to what I have read in the Spanish press, the average cost of a place in a residential home is around €2k per month. Not cheap, but the home my sister works in in the North West of the UK now charges 1 thousand pounds per week (and more than that for their specialist dementia unit).

https://www.inforesidencias.com/con...dencia-geriatrica-en-espa-a-es-de-1829-81-mes

In my town, although lots of families do provide care and support for their elderly relatives, there is also a very good service of home helps provided under the Ley de Dependencia, with uniformed carers visiting people in their own homes to provide help with housework, laundry and shopping as well as personal care. In addition there are adverts all over the place from people offering their services as carers for elderly people, whereas it is widely publicised that in the UK there is a shortage of people to do this type of work.


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## baldilocks

Lynn R said:


> N
> In my town, although lots of families do provide care and support for their elderly relatives, there is also a very good service of home helps provided under the Ley de Dependencia, with uniformed carers visiting people in their own homes to provide help with housework, laundry and shopping as well as personal care. *In addition there are adverts all over the place from people offering their services as carers for elderly people, *whereas it is widely publicised that in the UK there is a shortage of people to do this type of work.


I noticed quite a number on the walls of the hospital when I was in recently recovering from my heart attack.


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## Kikie

*Antibiotics*



xabiachica said:


> Lots of meds which are prescription only in the UK are available OTC in Spain.
> 
> That doesn't include antibiotics though. It's actually illegal to sell them without a prescription. Admittedly some farmacias will sell them to you - but they risk their licence by doing so!



Ah. Useful to know, so we don't rely on just being able to get them at the last minute.  I'm pretty sure we got at least one lot over the counter here but we'll assume not from now on. Thanks!


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## Isobella

Read an article today that there are no equivalent to hospices in Spain due to the difference with families expected to take over the care. Cudeca on the CDS is an exception. Chris Stewart (he of Driving over Lemons) stated that his MIL was just sent home without aftercare when her cancer was diagnosed incurable. This could change now many Spaniards are becoming more mobile and moving farther away from their families.


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## Lynn R

Isobella said:


> Read an article today that there are no equivalent to hospices in Spain due to the difference with families expected to take over the care. Cudeca on the CDS is an exception. Chris Stewart (he of Driving over Lemons) stated that his MIL was just sent home without aftercare when her cancer was diagnosed incurable. This could change now many Spaniards are becoming more mobile and moving farther away from their families.


I've known a couple of British people who have had terminal cancer here, and they did get home nursing care visits and palliative home care from doctors (although they both had partners living with them).


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## Pesky Wesky

It's officially better according to the Lancet
They classified Spanish healthcare at number 8 ahead of France Italy, Germany and the UKEspaña, octavo país con mejor sanidad según «The Lancet» y la Fundación Gates
I can only find references in Spanish, sorry


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## baldilocks

Pesky Wesky said:


> It's officially better according to the Lancet
> They classified Spanish healthcare at number 8 ahead of France Italy, Germany and the UKEspaña, octavo país con mejor sanidad según «The Lancet» y la Fundación Gates
> I can only find references in Spanish, sorry


Here's access to the report in English:
https://www.wort.lu/en/lifestyle/qu...content=newsLink&utm_campaign=dailyNewsletter

UK is 30th and the USA is 35th.


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## Lynn R

Isobella said:


> Read an article today that there are no equivalent to hospices in Spain due to the difference with families expected to take over the care. Cudeca on the CDS is an exception. Chris Stewart (he of Driving over Lemons) stated that his MIL was just sent home without aftercare when her cancer was diagnosed incurable. This could change now many Spaniards are becoming more mobile and moving farther away from their families.


I saw a reference to the Associación Girasol in this week's Sur in English - they provide support and care to cancer patients and their families in parts of inland Málaga province, Andalucia, including a day hospice service.

https://asociaciongirasol.com/our-service

I've also read of a similar initiative in Granada province, based near Almuñecar, so it does appear that services are beginning to increase, although they are nowhere near as widespread as in the UK.


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