# Cadiz /Malaga provincias



## Gipsy

Will move to Cadiz or Malaga provincias soon.. 

Would welcome any concrete experience or consideration to help me narrow down a drop point eventhough i am aware nothing replaces the real thing and time feel. 

So far, the areas i am attracted to are:

Cadiz > Cadiz City, Chiclana Frontera, Conil Frontera, Barbate 
Mélange > Nerja, Almeria, Cabo de Gate

Liking generally the fact that they are small cities near the ocean, beautiful nature close by and an easy drive to a bigger city. Attracted to their alternative feel . More into yoga, trekking, art, markets, healthy food and lifestyle than night clubbing or shopping therapy, etc. 

Thanks for sharing


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## Roy C

Conil is a beautiful little town with a cracking beach and no clubs or anything like that, also very Spanish. Nerja and a lot of Axarquia has a surprising high ex pat population, especially in the inland villages, were you get people saying they have moved there as it's nothing like Fuengirola and west of Malaga but most bars and restaurants we went into had a lot of Brits and other ex pat nationalities. Velez Malaga though was more Spanish and not so many ex pats. Some people like a lot of Brits around them some don't, it depends what you're after. We have a place close to the Cadiz / Malaga border just fifteen minutes from the coast. The village is very Spanish and some of the coast has pockets (big pockets) of ex pats. I like having the choice but prefer the authenticity of the village. We travelled from Nerja to Conil coast and inland before we found our place and glad we did in the end.


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## Lynn R

I'm not familiar with the other places on your shortlist, but I wouldn't say Nerja has a particularly "alternative" feel about it. It's certainly an attractive place due to the surrounding scenery and beautiful coastline, but it is also a very busy holiday resort (albeit not one catering for the lager lout type of tourist) and home to a substantial foreign population the majority of whom are late middle-aged or elderly. 

Places like Frigiliana and Cómpeta (both further inland than Nerja) I would say have a more "alternative" vibe, although again they both have high foreign populations (I know it's over 30% in Frigiliana, not sure about Cómpeta).

Vélez-Málaga, as Roy says, is almost exclusively Spanish. There are foreigners living here of many nationalities, but they make up less than 10% of the total population of the municipality (and that includes other towns like Torre del Mar and outlying villages which come under the Vélez-Málaga municipality). I would not say there is a great deal of "alternative" culture here, though, it is a Spanish working town - which is fine by me, I have been here for over 11 years now and wouldn't live anywhere else.


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## davexf

Hola 

I have lived in Chiclana for the best part of 15 years so am well biased; The ex-pat population is tiny when compared to the Costa del Sol towns. Chiclana is a town of 84,000 and growing; Cadiz has 120,000. The old town of Cadiz is very small and a car is a liability - you need to look at a map of Cadiz to understand everything is close together and in reality you are unlikely to have a garden. 

Chiclana town does have some terraced houses with postage stamp gardens but out in the campo of Chiclana you can still get 5,000 metres if you try hard, 1,000 metre plot being somewhere near the norm. 

Each to their own; I advise renting in this area to find what you like / dislike about it 

Davexf


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## Lynn R

Just in case Vélez-Málaga is of interest to you, this is quite a new website which has been developed, on a not for profit basis, by a young British couple who run a digital marketing business from their home in the historic centre, to showcase what the town has to offer to tourists and prospective residents.

https://mivelezmalaga.com/about-velez/


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## Roy C

Lynn R said:


> Just in case Vélez-Málaga is of interest to you, this is quite a new website which has been developed, on a not for profit basis, by a young British couple who run a digital marketing business from their home in the historic centre, to showcase what the town has to offer to tourists and prospective residents.
> 
> https://mivelezmalaga.com/about-velez/


What a great site, it really does the town justice. I see El Convento is in there, it use to be one of our favourites, the decor is really nice but last time we were there we found the food had gone down hill.


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## Lynn R

Roy C said:


> What a great site, it really does the town justice. I see El Convento is in there, it use to be one of our favourites, the decor is really nice but last time we were there we found the food had gone down hill.


I have to agree with you about El Convento, we haven't been for quite a while now after a couple of bad experiences with extremely slow service and food which, as you say, had slipped in standard. I read recently that they have opened a sister restaurant on the Paseo Maritimo in Torre del Mar, don't know if that will be an improvement or not.

I like the site too, I think they've done a really good job. I know they are really committed to the town and it's great that people like them are attracted to moving here.


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## Gipsy

Roy C said:


> Conil is a beautiful little town with a cracking beach and no clubs or anything like that, also very Spanish. Nerja and a lot of Axarquia has a surprising high ex pat population, especially in the inland villages, were you get people saying they have moved there as it's nothing like Fuengirola and west of Malaga but most bars and restaurants we went into had a lot of Brits and other ex pat nationalities. Velez Malaga though was more Spanish and not so many ex pats. Some people like a lot of Brits around them some don't, it depends what you're after. We have a place close to the Cadiz / Malaga border just fifteen minutes from the coast. The village is very Spanish and some of the coast has pockets (big pockets) of ex pats. I like having the choice but prefer the authenticity of the village. We travelled from Nerja to Conil coast and inland before we found our place and glad we did in the end.


Thanks Roy. 

Having a drive around seems to be what to do... trying to decide where to land for the first 1-2 month to have a base to look around... Must admit I never considered the rate population of Spanish or Expats but I guess it can be a factor as well... what would you say about the consequences of having a larger rate of Expats in an area? 

Would you mind telling me a bit more about Conil?

I saw you are in Caseres... looks like a beautiful white village on internet.. wondering how it is to live there?


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## Gipsy

Lynn R said:


> I'm not familiar with the other places on your shortlist, but I wouldn't say Nerja has a particularly "alternative" feel about it. It's certainly an attractive place due to the surrounding scenery and beautiful coastline, but it is also a very busy holiday resort (albeit not one catering for the lager lout type of tourist) and home to a substantial foreign population the majority of whom are late middle-aged or elderly.
> 
> Places like Frigiliana and Cómpeta (both further inland than Nerja) I would say have a more "alternative" vibe, although again they both have high foreign populations (I know it's over 30% in Frigiliana, not sure about Cómpeta).
> 
> Vélez-Málaga, as Roy says, is almost exclusively Spanish. There are foreigners living here of many nationalities, but they make up less than 10% of the total population of the municipality (and that includes other towns like Torre del Mar and outlying villages which come under the Vélez-Málaga municipality). I would not say there is a great deal of "alternative" culture here, though, it is a Spanish working town - which is fine by me, I have been here for over 11 years now and wouldn't live anywhere else.


Thank you Lynn.

From what you say, Nerja might not be a long term place... I remember reading a bit about Frigiliana on this forum and wondering how cold it would get in winter (!) like all other areas more inland... but both Frigiliana and Competa look like really beautiful white villages... just a bit too fare to be considered as explaration bases at the moment... who knows further down the lane?

Lynn, you also mention different % of Expat in dîfferent places... I am not sure what the influence of more or less international people would concretely mean in a specific place?

You got me curious about Velez-Malaga which I never considered... seems a possible practical base in the end to start with ? might consider it on my short list  Thanks for link to website as well


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## Gipsy

davexf said:


> Hola
> 
> I have lived in Chiclana for the best part of 15 years so am well biased; The ex-pat population is tiny when compared to the Costa del Sol towns. Chiclana is a town of 84,000 and growing; Cadiz has 120,000. The old town of Cadiz is very small and a car is a liability - you need to look at a map of Cadiz to understand everything is close together and in reality you are unlikely to have a garden.
> 
> Chiclana town does have some terraced houses with postage stamp gardens but out in the campo of Chiclana you can still get 5,000 metres if you try hard, 1,000 metre plot being somewhere near the norm.
> 
> Each to their own; I advise renting in this area to find what you like / dislike about it
> 
> Davexf


Thank you Dave.

You are right.. having a garden some time is part of the long term picture ! 

Didn't realize Cadiz has not that much more unhabitants that Chiclana.. 
I guess the feel must be quite different though..

What do you mean by 'a car is a liability' ? better not to have one if living in Cadiz town?

Would you say (living in) Conil de la Frontera is very different from Chiclana?

Thanks for your patience


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## Lynn R

Gipsy said:


> Thank you Lynn.
> 
> From what you say, Nerja might not be a long term place... I remember reading a bit about Frigiliana on this forum and wondering how cold it would get in winter (!) like all other areas more inland... but both Frigiliana and Competa look like really beautiful white villages... just a bit too fare to be considered as explaration bases at the moment... who knows further down the lane?
> 
> Lynn, you also mention different % of Expat in dîfferent places... I am not sure what the influence of more or less international people would concretely mean in a specific place?
> 
> You got me curious about Velez-Malaga which I never considered... seems a possible practical base in the end to start with ? might consider it on my short list  Thanks for link to website as well


Although undoubtedly a few degrees colder in winter than somewhere like Nerja which is on the coast, Frigiliana is actually not that far inland and if you have a car you can get to either Nerja or the motorway quickly from there. Cómpeta is another matter, personally I find the very twisting road up to there from the coast pretty tortuous, and the journey to/from the coast takes a lot longer especially if you get stuck behind a slow moving vehicle.

The international influence can be either a positive or a negative thing, really - and this is only my personal opinion - and depends on what kind of international influence it is. It can mean that there is a more diverse selection of restaurants and bars to go to (I find most Spanish establishments tend to offer very "samey" menus and it's easy to get bored with them, plus my husband is vegetarian and Spanish restaurants don't on the whole cater well for vegetarians), and lots of groups and activities you can take part in with like minded people without there being a language barrier if you don't speak good Spanish. However, in some places with a lot of foreign residents the foreign communities can be quite "cliquey" and just because you share the same nationality you may not necessarily be on the same wavelength or want to socialise with people.

Vélez (like most Spanish cities and larger towns) has a lot of unprepossessing apartment block on the outskirts but the old centre is nice and the town has excellent transport links, shopping and all kinds of facilities on your doorstep. It's only 4.5 km from the coast and prices for accommodation (to buy or rent) plus in the restaurants etc. are so much cheaper than in the mainly tourist areas. However, rental properties are thin on the ground compared to resorts like Nerja or Torre del Mar.


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## Roy C

Gipsy said:


> Thanks Roy.
> 
> Having a drive around seems to be what to do... trying to decide where to land for the first 1-2 month to have a base to look around... Must admit I never considered the rate population of Spanish or Expats but I guess it can be a factor as well... what would you say about the consequences of having a larger rate of Expats in an area?
> 
> Would you mind telling me a bit more about Conil?
> 
> I saw you are in Caseres... looks like a beautiful white village on internet.. wondering how it is to live there?


I think a large number of ex pats/immigrants is fine but if you want the authentic Spain without the English spoken everywhere and fish and chips etc then you pick somewhere that is mainly Spanish with few ex pats. You will be able to get a good idea of the make up when you visit these places.

Conil we stayed in for five nights while looking around that area and we loved it. It seemed quite windy and as it's the Atlantic I think the water is a bit cooler. We aren't experts on the area but it had a lovely feel about it. We also looked at Chiclana which we also liked but it came second (sorry Dave).

Casares is were we have a house and intend to live there but are held up due to circumstances here in the UK. We have been there in all seasons, it is cooler than the coast but still very nice, the wind gets up there too. It's just a short drive to the coast. The village is very , very Spanish and yes it is pretty. The town hall spend a lot on the village so it is well looked after. I sit on one of the terraces and watch the Griffen Vultues flying overhead, it's spectacular. We often drive to Estepona old town, very nice town and great beaches.


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## davexf

Hola 

Cadiz is very small – long and thin – it has all the important shops that you need as does Chiclana. However Conil population 22,000 is spread out and to find all the shops you need, you may have to go to another town. Parking is at a premium in Cadiz and you can walk anywhere in twenty minutes in the old town. 

If I had to choose between Cadiz and Conil, it would be Cadiz as there is more going on throughout the year; the Cadiz carnival is world famous. Chiclana’s population is four times Conil so plenty of choice of shops. 

Wherever you live, you have to make it your own and enjoy it – everyone is different 

Davexf


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## Alcalaina

I live about 40 km inland from Chiclana etc, and I find this ideal because I can get to all the coastal towns and beaches within a short drive yet also have peace and beauty of spectacular countryside (and property is much cheaper inland).

Conil is very much a holiday town, very crowded in high season and sleepy in winter. Barbate is a working (or should I say not-working) fishing port with the highest unemployment in Spain. Cadiz is the capital city of the province, lots of good nightlife, crowded and noisy. San Fernando, directly to the south of Cadiz, is nice but has a big military training facility. Puerto Real is an industrial town with a big shipbuilding plant and an Airbus factory.

Chiclana, originally a small town several km from the coast, has extended westwards towards La Barrosa, one of the best beaches in Europe. Propertywise it has something for everyone, and the public transport system and other amenities are good. Some time soon there willl be a tram service into the heart of Cadiz capital (we've only been waiting ten years!).

On the other side of the bay is El Puerto de Santa Maria, another big city with plenty of amenities and some great beaches especially to the west of the town. Again, something for everyone though property is a bit more expensive. Go further west and you hit the military air/naval base of Rota.

Hope this


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## Gipsy

Alcalaina said:


> I live about 40 km inland from Chiclana etc, and I find this ideal because I can get to all the coastal towns and beaches within a short drive yet also have peace and beauty of spectacular countryside (and property is much cheaper inland).
> 
> Conil is very much a holiday town, very crowded in high season and sleepy in winter. Barbate is a working (or should I say not-working) fishing port with the highest unemployment in Spain. Cadiz is the capital city of the province, lots of good nightlife, crowded and noisy. San Fernando, directly to the south of Cadiz, is nice but has a big military training facility. Puerto Real is an industrial town with a big shipbuilding plant and an Airbus factory.
> 
> Chiclana, originally a small town several km from the coast, has extended westwards towards La Barrosa, one of the best beaches in Europe. Propertywise it has something for everyone, and the public transport system and other amenities are good. Some time soon there willl be a tram service into the heart of Cadiz capital (we've only been waiting ten years!).
> 
> On the other side of the bay is El Puerto de Santa Maria, another big city with plenty of amenities and some great beaches especially to the west of the town. Again, something for everyone though property is a bit more expensive. Go further west and you hit the military air/naval base of Rota.
> 
> Hope this


Thanks a lot for your very helpful summarization of Cadiz provincia Alcalaina!
Feeling much clearer.

Would you ray something about Sanlucar de Barrameda, Jerez and Vejer de la Frontera?

Less that 50 km inland seems ideal as a long term living situation... the best of all world 🙃


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## davexf

Hola 

If I didn't live in Chiclana, I would like to live in Sanlucar de barrameda; a lovely town centre and wonderful beaches. Too crowded for my liking in the summer season but the town centre is a pedestrian precinct. The Pedro Jimenez sherry from the Pedro romero bodega is the best I have tasted and I refill my four litre flagon for just over 20€ 

Davexf


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## daveunt

I really like Zahara de los Atunes in Cadiz province. Nice beaches, coastal walks (including around to the Roman ruins at Bolonia), etc... Definitely has that alternative vibe you're looking for but it's also busy enough in summer for there to be some really interesting restaurants there. Disadvantages would be that it is very small and further away from Cadiz city that is perhaps ideal for you.


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## Alcalaina

Gipsy said:


> Thanks a lot for your very helpful summarization of Cadiz provincia Alcalaina!
> Feeling much clearer.
> 
> Would you ray something about Sanlucar de Barrameda, Jerez and Vejer de la Frontera?
> 
> Less that 50 km inland seems ideal as a long term living situation... the best of all world 🙃


Sanlucar is a very interesting town on the mouth of the Guadalquivir, with loads of history. In August they have horseracing on the beach and in June hundreds of gypsy caravans cross the river on the pilgrimage to El Rocio in Helva. We did think about moving there, but concluded it's the sort of place we would prefer to visit rather than live.

Jerez - big city, lots going on, good transport links including its own airport. Like all cities it has its rough areas, but if you find somewhere in the right district it would be a good place to live. Not on the coast though, and it can get stiflingly hot in summer.

Vejer - very pretty, superb beach nearby (El Palmar), expensive, lots of second homes owned by Northern Europeans. A bit too touristy for my taste but has a strong arts and crafts community and is quite cosmopolitan.

Zahara de los Atunes - originally a fishing village but now an upmarket tourist resort very popular with Germans (I think it was a German businessman who built the first hotel there). Nice beach but dead in winter apart from a few surfers. We went there last Christmas day for our traditional walk on the beach, and there was only one bar open at lunchtime, whereas in our village everything was open.


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## Gipsy

Lynn R said:


> Although undoubtedly a few degrees colder in winter than somewhere like Nerja which is on the coast, Frigiliana is actually not that far inland and if you have a car you can get to either Nerja or the motorway quickly from there. Cómpeta is another matter, personally I find the very twisting road up to there from the coast pretty tortuous, and the journey to/from the coast takes a lot longer especially if you get stuck behind a slow moving vehicle.
> 
> The international influence can be either a positive or a negative thing, really - and this is only my personal opinion - and depends on what kind of international influence it is. It can mean that there is a more diverse selection of restaurants and bars to go to (I find most Spanish establishments tend to offer very "samey" menus and it's easy to get bored with them, plus my husband is vegetarian and Spanish restaurants don't on the whole cater well for vegetarians), and lots of groups and activities you can take part in with like minded people without there being a language barrier if you don't speak good Spanish. However, in some places with a lot of foreign residents the foreign communities can be quite "cliquey" and just because you share the same nationality you may not necessarily be on the same wavelength or want to socialise with people.
> 
> Vélez (like most Spanish cities and larger towns) has a lot of unprepossessing apartment block on the outskirts but the old centre is nice and the town has excellent transport links, shopping and all kinds of facilities on your doorstep. It's only 4.5 km from the coast and prices for accommodation (to buy or rent) plus in the restaurants etc. are so much cheaper than in the mainly tourist areas. However, rental properties are thin on the ground compared to resorts like Nerja or Torre del Mar.


Thanks for the precisions Lynn.


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## Gipsy

Alcalaina said:


> Sanlucar is a very interesting town on the mouth of the Guadalquivir, with loads of history. In August they have horseracing on the beach and in June hundreds of gypsy caravans cross the river on the pilgrimage to El Rocio in Helva. We did think about moving there, but concluded it's the sort of place we would prefer to visit rather than live.
> 
> Jerez - big city, lots going on, good transport links including its own airport. Like all cities it has its rough areas, but if you find somewhere in the right district it would be a good place to live. Not on the coast though, and it can get stiflingly hot in summer.
> 
> Vejer - very pretty, superb beach nearby (El Palmar), expensive, lots of second homes owned by Northern Europeans. A bit too touristy for my taste but has a strong arts and crafts community and is quite cosmopolitan.
> 
> Zahara de los Atunes - originally a fishing village but now an upmarket tourist resort very popular with Germans (I think it was a German businessman who built the first hotel there). Nice beach but dead in winter apart from a few surfers. We went there last Christmas day for our traditional walk on the beach, and there was only one bar open at lunchtime, whereas in our village everything was open.


Thanks again Alcalaina, again very helpful with details


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## Gipsy

daveunt said:


> I really like Zahara de los Atunes in Cadiz province. Nice beaches, coastal walks (including around to the Roman ruins at Bolonia), etc... Definitely has that alternative vibe you're looking for but it's also busy enough in summer for there to be some really interesting restaurants there. Disadvantages would be that it is very small and further away from Cadiz city that is perhaps ideal for you.


Thank you Dave, it is helpful. Hadn't seen Zahara on the map before. Iguess there will be so much more once there


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## Anciana

Gipsy said:


> Must admit I never considered the rate population of Spanish or Expats but I guess it can be a factor as well... what would you say about the consequences of having a larger rate of Expats in an area?


Moving abroad to live for a while I have not considered it either. And most of the time it was a non-issue. But not in the Cadiz province of Andalusia.

First time I moved to Spain for a while was some 15 years ago. I did not speak any Spanish, though I could read some of it, particularly simple documents in formal Spanish, as my 4 years of Latin at school and my legal education, using lot of latin terminology helped. And I moved to Almunecar, where ca 35% of population at that time were expats. And I had no communication problems even not knowing ANY Spanish.

Then I was living for several years in different Spanish speaking countries in Latin America.like Costa Rica, Mexico, Guatemala, Puerto Rico. I worked there and in my job I communicated internationally, mostly in English. But my native coworkers helped me to learn and communicate in Spanish, so even in remote villages, even those populated by Maya speakers, I usually could get myself understood and understand their Spanish.

Then again I moved to Spain, to a town where half of the natives spoke Castillan Spanish and half spoke Valencian. And where there were relatively large groups of expats, mainly from Britain, Sweden and Germany. As I am fluent in all three of these languages I was feeling at home. But even natives were easy to communicate with - in Spanish.

From there I moved to Cadiz province, initially to Costa Ballena, Rota, a seaside and tourist resort. There many neighbors and practically all service providers spoke English, so there was no much need for Spanish.

But I got a serious heart condition requiring an ability to get to a hospital quickly, and I moved to El Puerto. Two "blocks" from a hospital. And there I discovered the true disadvantages of living in an almost exclusively Andalusian speaking community, with a hard to comprehend local accent and natives utterly unwilling to understand any Spanish that did not sound Andalusian. I is at best inconvenient, sometimes utterly frustrating, sometimes expensive and at time even dangerous.

Here people on the street usually show enough goodwill to speak slower than usual and to try to understand my Spanish (very, very few of them would know even rudimentary English). Store clerks and various service providers, who are dependent on selling will make an effort to understand/being understood. Even my two housekeepers, who have only rudimentary education do their utmost to communicate. Because they are dependent on selling their services to me (as I pay well and treat them very well). 

When I go to a hospital in an emergency I do not have a problem. There has always been at least one emergency doctor who spoke English and all levels of hospital stuff comprehend my Spanish and I theirs. But at the local health center - no. 

Local doctors do not speak or even understand English. And support staff does not even bother to understand my Spanish. They ask me to bring an interpreter. And this is what I do, even though it costs me an arm and a leg, as I do not want a linguistic misunderstanding to cause me health problems. 

So be aware, that too Spanish Spain - with a heavy local dialect and people with limited willingness or ability to understand different sounding version of Spanish -might be very difficult to put up with and even outright dangerous.


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## davexf

Anciana said:


> When I go to a hospital in an emergency I do not have a problem. There has always been at least one emergency doctor who spoke English and all levels of hospital stuff comprehend my Spanish and I theirs. But at the local health center - no.
> 
> Local doctors do not speak or even understand English. And support staff does not even bother to understand my Spanish. They ask me to bring an interpreter. And this is what I do, even though it costs me an arm and a leg, as I do not want a linguistic misunderstanding to cause me health problems.
> 
> So be aware, that too Spanish Spain - with a heavy local dialect and people with limited willingness or ability to understand different sounding version of Spanish -might be very difficult to put up with and even outright dangerous.


Hola 

Sorry but I am going to disagree with your experiences; I speak rudimentary Spanish which 99% of people try to understand. Many here are trying hard to learn English and will speak pigeon English to me to try and practice as everyone has to have a B1 in English these days. 

I agree there are a minority of Spanish people that WILL NOT understand your Spanish if it is not with a local accent, but I can count those times on the fingers of one hand. 

I live ten miles away from Puerta Santa Maria but in a much larger town; less than two percent Ex-Pat residents although many Ex-Pats with holiday homes here. 

Just my experience - it shows how local experiences can differ 

Davexf


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## Anciana

I am glad Dave that you have a much better experience with Andalusian Spanish. As fae as sheer numbers go I would say I understand and am understood by a majority of those with whom I attempt to communicate. Alas, unfortunately not with those who count. The medical professionals at the local health centre, though not only. 
How much trust would you have in, say, a cardiologist who ignores you, do not ask you questions and pays attention only to your Spanish interpreter, without even bothering to include YOU in a conversation and give the interpreter time to translate her instructions to you? sThat cardiologist made me feel not like a human being but like a broken appliance!

Dentist. I seek and find an English speaking dentist. He seems to understand me and starts telling me what my dental problem is and how to fix it. In this moment his assistant comes in and explains that I have a Spanish speaking friend and does not he want to speak to her instead of me? Of course he does. His English disappears in that instant and I as a person disappear, too.

He talks only to my friend, tells her what needs to be done and gives HER time for MY appointment. His Spanish is easy to follow, so I know what he says, but... is THAT a way to treat a patient? 

And why is it happening to me ONLY in this particular place of all of the Spanish speaking countries and provinces of Spain in which I lived so far? When my Spanish is considerably better than it was 15, 10, 5 or even 2 years ago???


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## Lynn R

davexf said:


> Hola
> 
> Sorry but I am going to disagree with your experiences; I speak rudimentary Spanish which 99% of people try to understand. Many here are trying hard to learn English and will speak pigeon English to me to try and practice as everyone has to have a B1 in English these days.
> 
> I agree there are a minority of Spanish people that WILL NOT understand your Spanish if it is not with a local accent, but I can count those times on the fingers of one hand.
> 
> I live ten miles away from Puerta Santa Maria but in a much larger town; less than two percent Ex-Pat residents although many Ex-Pats with holiday homes here.
> 
> Just my experience - it shows how local experiences can differ
> 
> Davexf


My experience is much closer to yours, Dave, although not in the same area. The municipality where I live has a foreign population of under 10% (all nationalities put together) and the local people speak Andaluz. 

I certainly find it difficult to understand people in the street at times, although those who have had conversations with me don't say that they find me difficult to understand, indeed I've often been told my speech is "muy claro y distinto". It's much easier to follow everyday conversations in other areas of Spain.

I've never had a problem with anyone in an official or healthcare setting, though. Either I start off speaking in Spanish, or they ask me if I speak Spanish and I say yes, but not perfectly, and we go on from there. I've never been asked to provide an interpreter.


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## Alcalaina

Things have changed since you lived here Anciana. Even in our town, pop. 5000 and in the heart of Cadiz province, we have an English-speaking dentist, pharmacist and doctor. The other doctors who don't speak English will go to great lengths to make sure you understand, looking up words and writings things down. As Dave says, these days everyone in a client-facing position is after a B1 in English. And you can always find someone learning English who will act as an interpreter for you in exchange for the occasional lesson.


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## Anciana

But I do live here NOW Alcalaina. And the experiences, with health care center staff, a cardiologst and a dentist are ALL FROM NOVEMBER, that is LAST MONTH. In a town of almost 100 000. Nowhere has it EVER happen to me before. All I can do is hope they are some rare exceptions and my future experiences here will be better. They better be, as I like it here, in El Puerto, linguistic ? problems notwithstanding.

P.S. Since English (American) is my FOURTH language I would never think of teaching English in exchange for Spanish.


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## mrypg9

I have a reasonable command of spoken and written Spanish, I make mistakes but communicate well enough to go on tv shows and take part in local politics.
When I arrived here - nine years ago tomorrow - I knew a few words but couldn't string a sentence together. I have never had a Spanish lesson or taken any course but learned from listening to the people with whom I work and attend political meetings and imitating what I heard, rather like children learn to speak their mother tongue.They are all andaluz to their bones.
I have no idea how I sound but was told recently by a Spaniard from Madrid that I didn't speak 'proper' Spanish. I know I make a lot of grammatical errors but I communicate.
The staff at our local consultorio in the village speak no English. My GP comes from Galicia but so far we've managed to communicate.
Whenever I have an appointment at the hospital I get asked by the specialists I see if I speak Spanish to which I reply 'me defiendo'. They speak no English but are considerate, speak slowly and distinctly and always make sure I know what's going on. I always study the Informe very carefully and look up any medical terms I need before my appointment. Most words are similar in English/ Spanish anyway.
Most non- Spanish -speaking Brits I know either use private health care or make costly trips back to the UK for treatment.
I've survived four years of cardio treatment and a couple of emergency admissions with as yet no problems, probably because people have been kind and patient.


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## Megsmum

mrypg9 said:


> I have a reasonable command of spoken and written Spanish, I make mistakes but communicate well enough to go on tv shows and take part in local politics.
> When I arrived here - nine years ago tomorrow - I knew a few words but couldn't string a sentence together. I have never had a Spanish lesson or taken any course but learned from listening to the people with whom I work and attend political meetings and imitating what I heard, rather like children learn to speak their mother tongue.They are all andaluz to their bones.
> I have no idea how I sound but was told recently by a Spaniard from Madrid that I didn't speak 'proper' Spanish. I know I make a lot of grammatical errors but I communicate.
> The staff at our local consultorio in the village speak no English. My GP comes from Galicia but so far we've managed to communicate.
> Whenever I have an appointment at the hospital I get asked by the specialists I see if I speak Spanish to which I reply 'me defiendo'. They speak no English but are considerate, speak slowly and distinctly and always make sure I know what's going on. I always study the Informe very carefully and look up any medical terms I need before my appointment. Most words are similar in English/ Spanish anyway.
> Most non- Spanish -speaking Brits I know either use private health care or make costly trips back to the UK for treatment.
> I've survived four years of cardio treatment and a couple of emergency admissions with as yet no problems, probably because people have been kind and patient.




Same here... four years in February, dear lord where did that time go? My Spanish is gender confused, plural lacking and usually in the present tense. Most people I come across say my Spanish is ok they understand me and I’ve always made myself understood, which is in reality the art of communication. Like you never had lessons, self taught and have simply listened listened and learnt, I ask friends questions ad try to remember. I have managed to obtain autonomo, healthcare and have repairs made on the house. When my husband had operations, no one spoke English and we all managed fine. I also go dog training, which to be honest has been the hardest thing so far due to the necessities of speed.. listening, translating and then telling Meg the command although she’s usually got the matter under control before me. The only times that I become introverted are. In large groups, I find in large groups the conversation difficult to follow and with English people, if I’m near English which is not often but they want to speak Spanish for some reason, I shut down totally, which is more about my own insecurities than them.

Younger folks here speak a smattering of English ie under 30s. Due to bilingual classes and having to obtain level B1. 

I always smile to myself when people complain or moan about the lack of English in professional places...... we are in Spain are the Spanish supposed to gear themselves up to cover all languages that immigrants speak.

I have a friend here in the village from Galicia...... such a sing song accent... I adore it, he almost sounds Italian


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## mrypg9

Megsmum said:


> Same here... four years in February, dear lord where did that time go? My Spanish is gender confused, plural lacking and usually in the present tense. Most people I come across say my Spanish is ok they understand me and I’ve always made myself understood, which is in reality the art of communication. Like you never had lessons, self taught and have simply listened listened and learnt, I ask friends questions ad try to remember. I have managed to obtain autonomo, healthcare and have repairs made on the house. When my husband had operations, no one spoke English and we all managed fine. I also go dog training, which to be honest has been the hardest thing so far due to the necessities of speed.. listening, translating and then telling Meg the command although she’s usually got the matter under control before me. The only times that I become introverted are. In large groups, I find in large groups the conversation difficult to follow and with English people, if I’m near English which is not often but they want to speak Spanish for some reason, I shut down totally, which is more about my own insecurities than them.
> 
> Younger folks here speak a smattering of English ie under 30s. Due to bilingual classes and having to obtain level B1.
> 
> I always smile to myself when people complain or moan about the lack of English in professional places...... we are in Spain are the Spanish supposed to gear themselves up to cover all languages that immigrants speak.
> 
> I have a friend here in the village from Galicia...... such a sing song accent... I adore it, he almost sounds Italian


My problem, as I guess is a problem for a lot of people, isn't speaking but understanding. In most cases I can say what I want but often take on a glazed look when replied to with a voluble torrent of local dialect.
My cover of apparent fluency is, I fear, about to be blown. This week, we (PSOE)finally elected our new Ejecutiva and was elected President. Now my problems will begin. 
But I'm not that bothered, looking stupid doesn't unduly bother me, it's happened often before, I'm sure and my companeros/as are all so kind, patient and willing to good-humouredly correct my mistakes.

I know that ploughing on like this, not being embarrassed or inhibited when I get things wrong, in 100% non-English-speaking Spanish company, gradually understand more each time, is the only way I'll ever be able to function here, in the way I want to.
Next stop, the local Women's Institute equivalent.....


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## jimenato

mrypg9 said:


> My problem, as I guess is a problem for a lot of people, isn't speaking but understanding. In most cases I can say what I want but often take on a glazed look when replied to with a voluble torrent of local dialect.
> 
> ...


I'm the same. I can say pretty much whatever I want quite well but have difficulty when the stream of Spanish comes back at me. I think maybe the confidence and apparent ease with which I speak Spanish makes people think I'm better than I really am so they don't make many allowances.

OH reckons she can understand most of what she hears but rarely utters a word.

...and so between the two of us...

Many people profess to be able to understand better than speak which I don't really understand. When you speak you obviously use the words and tenses and constructs that you know but when people speak back they are going to use stuff you don't know. How can that be easier?


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## Alcalaina

Anciana said:


> But I do live here NOW Alcalaina. And the experiences, with health care center staff, a cardiologst and a dentist are ALL FROM NOVEMBER, that is LAST MONTH. In a town of almost 100 000. Nowhere has it EVER happen to me before. All I can do is hope they are some rare exceptions and my future experiences here will be better. They better be, as I like it here, in El Puerto, linguistic ? problems notwithstanding.
> 
> P.S. Since English (American) is my FOURTH language I would never think of teaching English in exchange for Spanish.


Oh sorry, I didn't realise. But I know a few Brits in EP who hardly speak any Spanish and they don't seem to have a problem at the hospital, which I understand is one of the best in the area.

And I wasn't suggesting you teach English (that would be putting teachers out of work!) but most students appreciate having a conversation in English where someone gently corrects their mistakes.


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## Alcalaina

mrypg9 said:


> I know that ploughing on like this, not being embarrassed or inhibited when I get things wrong, in 100% non-English-speaking Spanish company, gradually understand more each time, is the only way I'll ever be able to function here, in the way I want to.
> Next stop, the local Women's Institute equivalent.....


Spot on, I'm the same. Ten years in, I can understand about two-thirds of what the locals are saying, and they can understand me 90% of the time. Hopefully in another five years... 

Interestingly our new English teacher at the adult education centre is from Málaga (Coin) and when she goes at full whack I can barely understand a word. So maybe I have become accustomed to the Cádiz accent (which is supposed to be stronger)?


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## Lynn R

jimenato said:


> Many people profess to be able to understand better than speak which I don't really understand. When you speak you obviously use the words and tenses and constructs that you know but when people speak back they are going to use stuff you don't know. How can that be easier?


I don't understand it either, but my OH definitely understands better than he speaks, in fact he often understands what is being said to him (or at least gets the gist) faster than I do. He knows a lot of vocabulary in Spanish, but can't get the hang of the grammar.


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## Lynn R

jimenato said:


> I think maybe the confidence and apparent ease with which I speak Spanish makes people think I'm better than I really am so they don't make many allowances.


I think that's the problem with people who say they don't want to have to learn a lot of grammar because they find it boring, but just want to learn basic sentences so they can ask for things, etc. They learn phrases off by heart so the person they¡'re speaking to assumes they can speak Spanish, but they haven't a clue what the reply they get means.


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## mrypg9

Alcalaina said:


> Spot on, I'm the same. Ten years in, I can understand about two-thirds of what the locals are saying, and they can understand me 90% of the time. Hopefully in another five years...
> 
> Interestingly our new English teacher at the adult education centre is from Málaga (Coin) and when she goes at full whack I can barely understand a word. So maybe I have become accustomed to the Cádiz accent (which is supposed to be stronger)?


I find it easier to understand the news etc. on Andalusian tv than for example the 24 hour news channel that presumably comes from Madrid.


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## Anciana

I see a misunderstanding. I wrote that I have NO problem when I go to a HOSPITAL, in emergency, but when I go to a HEALTH CENTER and its doctors. It is this difference that bothers me and irritates me. WHY hospital doctors and stuff have no problem communicate with me in Spanish, while health center personnel seems unwilling to be bothered? It may not necessarily reflect on their professional competence, but....

My Spanish friend says there are a lot of Gypsies in El Puerto. And they can be hard to understand even for her (she is from Madrid). I was inclined to discount it as a prejudice... but what do I know?


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## Alcalaina

Anciana said:


> I see a misunderstanding. I wrote that I have NO problem when I go to a HOSPITAL, in emergency, but when I go to a HEALTH CENTER and its doctors. It is this difference that bothers me and irritates me. WHY hospital doctors and stuff have no problem communicate with me in Spanish, while health center personnel seems unwilling to be bothered? It may not necessarily reflect on their professional competence, but....
> 
> My Spanish friend says there are a lot of Gypsies in El Puerto. And they can be hard to understand even for her (she is from Madrid). I was inclined to discount it as a prejudice... but what do I know?


This would be a Junta de Andalucía health centre presumably, not a private one? maybe they have suffered from staff not being replaced when they leave, because of the spending cuts. No excuse for bad manners of course, but it must be stressful for them and doesn't leave them much time to go off and learn languages.

There are a lot of gypsies all over Cádiz province, not just EP. That's what makes it such an important centre for flamenco. We have neighbours who are related to the world-famous singer El Camarón, who lived in San Fernando. They don't sound any different from neighbours who are not of gypsy origin.


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## Roy C

mrypg9 said:


> Next stop, the local Women's Institute equivalent.....


LOL I very much doubt that......................


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## Alcalaina

Roy C said:


> LOL I very much doubt that......................


Why? We have one in Alcalá. They are a formidable bunch and do a lot of good work for the community, such as organising food parcels and the recycling of toys for families with no regular income. Right up M's street I would imagine!


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## Roy C

Alcalaina said:


> Why? We have one in Alcalá. They are a formidable bunch and do a lot of good work for the community, such as organising food parcels and the recycling of toys for families with no regular income. Right up M's street I would imagine!


I wasn't having a pop at the Spanish version of the WI I'm sue they do fabulous work but I doubt Mary would give up the brilliant work she does her local dog rescue, anytime soon.


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## Alcalaina

Roy C said:


> I wasn't having a pop at the Spanish version of the WI I'm sue they do fabulous work but I doubt Mary would give up the brilliant work she does her local dog rescue, anytime soon.


I'm sure there's enough of Mary to go round!

And who knows, perhaps she will recruit more ADANA volunteers from within the WI.


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## jimenato

Alcalaina said:


> I'm sure there's enough of Mary to go round!
> 
> And who knows, perhaps she will recruit more ADANA volunteers from within the WI.


...and I'll bet she makes jolly good jam and I can just see her leading a rousing chorus of Jerusalem.


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## Alcalaina

jimenato said:


> ...and I'll bet she makes jolly good jam and I can just see her leading a rousing chorus of Jerusalem.




Not sure how well Jerusalem would go down in Estepona. The Andalusian anthem perhaps?


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## Gipsy

Alcalaina said:


> Vejer - very pretty, superb beach nearby (El Palmar), expensive, lots of second homes owned by Northern Europeans. A bit too touristy for my taste but has a strong arts and crafts community and is quite cosmopolitan.


Hello again Alcalaina,
I am going to land soon in Chipiona first, a little bit by choice, a little bit by chance.

But you really got me interested in Vejer de la Frontera... appx 15'000 inhabitants i believe...

Could you please tell me more about the strong arts & crafts community ?

Thanks


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## Alcalaina

Gipsy said:


> Hello again Alcalaina,
> I am going to land soon in Chipiona first, a little bit by choice, a little bit by chance.
> 
> But you really got me interested in Vejer de la Frontera... appx 15'000 inhabitants i believe...
> 
> Could you please tell me more about the strong arts & crafts community ?
> 
> Thanks


I know an artist that lives there - Kath Hockey About the artist - Kathryn Hockey - Artist IllustratorKathryn Hockey – Artist Illustrator - and she told me there are quite a few, mainly Northern Europeans, involved in various arts and crafts. You can see their offerings in the many tourist gift shops, restaurant decor etc. In fact there is a craft fair this Saturday, "Concentrarte".

CONCENTRARTE VEJER - Feria de muestras - Agenda de Guía de Cádiz


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## Gipsy

Alcalaina said:


> I know an artist that lives there - Kath Hockey About the artist - Kathryn Hockey - Artist IllustratorKathryn Hockey – Artist Illustrator - and she told me there are quite a few, mainly Northern Europeans, involved in various arts and crafts. You can see their offerings in the many tourist gift shops, restaurant decor etc. In fact there is a craft fair this Saturday, "Concentrarte".
> 
> CONCENTRARTE VEJER - Feria de muestras - Agenda de Guía de Cádiz


Had a look at her FB page... really like her style !
Thanks for links and info on Concentrarte 

Will only arrive in Andalucia next week...

But definitely Vejer de la Frontera stays up on my list


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## Alcalaina

Gipsy said:


> Had a look at her FB page... really like her style !
> Thanks for links and info on Concentrarte
> 
> Will only arrive in Andalucia next week...
> 
> But definitely Vejer de la Frontera stays up on my list


Looking forward to your feedback!


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## mrypg9

Alcalaina said:


> I'm sure there's enough of Mary to go round!
> 
> And who knows, perhaps she will recruit more ADANA volunteers from within the WI.


Alas, there is much of me to go round..too much

You read my mind! Actually, my main impulse was to be a PSOE Trojan Horse. When I was involved in my Labour Party CLP back in the UK we had members in every local club and association, from the WI to the Ornithological Society to the Local History Group. Quietly changing opinions through subtle propaganda..
Pure Gramsci. Marching through the institutions...


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## mrypg9

jimenato said:


> ...and I'll bet she makes jolly good jam and I can just see her leading a rousing chorus of Jerusalem.


Never made jam but I can belt out a rousing chorus of 'Jerusalem', even when sober..

The local WI equivalent, the Peña Blanca, is like the UK WI involved in a variety of local and topical concerns. They do an annual reenactment of the Battle of Estepona, it seems, Christians repelling invading Moors, an event I suspect is not totally PC.
I like the idea of pouring noxious liquids on the heads of the invaders from the battlements of the Estepona tower...


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## mrypg9

Roy C said:


> I wasn't having a pop at the Spanish version of the WI I'm sue they do fabulous work but I doubt Mary would give up the brilliant work she does her local dog rescue, anytime soon.


You are too kind...

I hope I've got a few years more work in me..

Come back soon, we miss you.

P.S. Lloyd has settled in with his new family really well. The woman who adopted him has adopted Sunny, she's off to Denmark to move in with Lloyd on Sunday.


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## Roy C

mrypg9 said:


> You are too kind...
> 
> I hope I've got a few years more work in me.. Definitely
> 
> Come back soon, we miss you. HA ha, it might only be a week next time but I'll be up in them there hills, thanks......
> 
> P.S. Lloyd has settled in with his new family really well. The woman who adopted him has adopted Sunny, she's off to Denmark to move in with Lloyd on Sunday.


Awh Lloyd, I don't have favourites but Lloyd was special, s good he has a lovely forever home (and Sunny)

Looking forward to getting back there............


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## Pesky Wesky

jimenato said:


> Many people profess to be able to understand better than speak which I don't really understand. When you speak you obviously use the words and tenses and constructs that you know but when people speak back they are going to use stuff you don't know. How can that be easier?





Lynn R said:


> I don't understand it either, but my OH definitely understands better than he speaks, in fact he often understands what is being said to him (or at least gets the gist) faster than I do. He knows a lot of vocabulary in Spanish, but can't get the hang of the grammar.


Because listening is a basically passive skill whereas when you are speaking you need to activate you knowledge and produce. It's the same in your native language In general people understand more language than they actually use.


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## Pesky Wesky

Alcalaina said:


> Why? We have one in Alcalá. They are a formidable bunch and do a lot of good work for the community, such as organising food parcels and the recycling of toys for families with no regular income. Right up M's street I would imagine!


I don't know how I managed to end up in this thread, but I found a couple of interesting posts!
What is the Spanish equivalent of the WI? I'm quite interested in joining one now. I've read so much about them and the support they can provide to members and the outside community that I've got over my adolescent fear of turning into a person who becomes a WI member and now feel curiosity


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