# Carbon Monoxide Warning



## Gazeebo (Jan 23, 2015)

I have been having a few headaches which I do not usually suffer from, but didn't think anything about it and put it down to the weather.
The OH had mentioned that he was not sure about the boiler in the kitchen and wanted to get a carbon monoxide alarm, so off we went and bought one. Well, low and behold, I was having a shower this evening and the alarm went off.
Of course we are not happy, especially thinking back to the events in Greece a few years back when two children were killed by this poisoning.
Surely, people who rent out their properties are duty bound to fit such alarms themselves (carbon monoxide, fire etc.). Even if they aren't, human decency should make them provide these. To think that there were probably children in this villa over the summer does not bear thinking about.
So, a warning to all who rent or buy - get alarms and ensure such systems are properly serviced.
We will be speaking to the agent and landlady tomorrow.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Gazeebo said:


> I have been having a few headaches which I do not usually suffer from, but didn't think anything about it and put it down to the weather.
> The OH had mentioned that he was not sure about the boiler in the kitchen and wanted to get a carbon monoxide alarm, so off we went and bought one. Well, low and behold, I was having a shower this evening and the alarm went off.
> Of course we are not happy, especially thinking back to the events in Greece a few years back when two children were killed by this poisoning.
> Surely, people who rent out their properties are duty bound to fit such alarms themselves (carbon monoxide, fire etc.). Even if they aren't, human decency should make them provide these. To think that there were probably children in this villa over the summer does not bear thinking about.
> ...


There is no obligation for people in Spain to do anything about carbon monoxide. It!s a little known problem here. Not all countries move at the same pace with these things. I do agree with you though that people should be aware of these things. Today, by coincidence I was looking at a mono detector at my sisters here in the UK àfternoon was thinking it would be a good idea to get one to take back with me!


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## thrax (Nov 13, 2008)

When we had a new gas water heater installed, because of the very real dangers of carbon monoxide poisoning, we had it installed outside. We also use a gas heater and obviously that operates inside. So we bought a monitor which, so far, hasn't gone off...


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

I thought that by law all gas fittings have to be inspected and repaired if necessary every five years? Though many people don't bother and of course a lot can go wrong in five years. I do remember a TV ad campaign a couple of years ago about the danger of CO poisoning.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

125 deaths a year on average. Shocking!

La intoxicación por monóxido de carbono provoca 125 muertes anuales en España - Martes, 27 Enero 2015 (11:34)


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Alcalaina said:


> I thought that by law all gas fittings have to be inspected and repaired if necessary every five years? Though many people don't bother and of course a lot can go wrong in five years. I do remember a TV ad campaign a couple of years ago about the danger of CO poisoning.


Yes, you are advised to have checks done on gas fittings every 5/4/2??years, but as far as I know wrongly or rightly, there is no legal requirement.
Also the checks are not specifically for CM (again as far as I know) but are checks on the gas boiler in general which includes a check on the gasses being emitted, at least that's what happens in the PW household.
My previous post was just saying that there is little general awareness about CM being a common, but potentially killer gas.
I'm pretty sure I posted smth about this on an earlier thread about different areas of Spain and the strength of CM emission, this area being a high "danger" area due to the type of natural stone to be found here.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Yes, you are advised to have checks done on gas fittings every 5/4/2??years, but as far as I know wrongly or rightly, there is no legal requirement.
> Also the checks are not specifically for CM (again as far as I know) but are checks on the gas boiler in general which includes a check on the gasses being emitted, at least that's what happens in the PW household.
> My previous post was just saying that there is little general awareness about CM being a common, but potentially killer gas.
> I'm pretty sure I posted smth about this on an earlier thread about different areas of Spain and the strength of CM emission, this area being a high "danger" area due to the type of natural stone to be found here.


No, that's rubbish.
I'm getting confused with radon


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Yes it is five years and as part of the inspection, the inspector will check that there is sufficient ventilation. If there isn't, she/he should disconnect the heating source until there is sufficient ventilation.


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## thrax (Nov 13, 2008)

That's why our water heater is outside. Plenty of ventilation... We have it serviced every year.


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

baldilocks said:


> Yes it is five years and as part of the inspection, the inspector will check that there is sufficient ventilation. If there isn't, she/he should disconnect the heating source until there is sufficient ventilation.


We had to have additional ventilation (a grille in the front door) installed when we first got a contract with Repsol to supply gas bottles, as they sent a technician to inspect the property before they would issue the contract. We do have the 5 yearly inspections too.

I think people who just buy gas bottles without having a contract are taking a real risk with their safety.


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## smitty5668 (Feb 25, 2015)

when we came out to our place in september, our gas heater wasn't working. took it apart and found an old birds nest in it. villa had not been in regular use for over four years.
cleaned out what we could and lit it up. it's located outside and just ran it until all flames were blue. getting it serviced in january.


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## stefig (Jul 14, 2015)

Pesky Wesky said:


> There is no obligation for people in Spain to do anything about carbon monoxide. It!s a little known problem here. Not all countries move at the same pace with these things. I do agree with you though that people should be aware of these things. Today, by coincidence I was looking at a mono detector at my sisters here in the UK àfternoon was thinking it would be a good idea to get one to take back with me!


Oh, that's OK then. People can just die rather than the landlords having an obligation to fit a cheap little alarm, or rather than the government raising awareness about it.


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

stefig said:


> Oh, that's OK then. People can just die rather than the landlords having an obligation to fit a cheap little alarm, or rather than the government raising awareness about it.


But is already law that one must have a contract from a gas supplier in order to have gas bottles supplied, and that an inspection of gas appliances and fittings must be done every five years.

! Spanish News Today - Spanish Gas Scams: The Facts

However, both those obligations are widely ignored by both foreign residents and Spaniards, in order to save a few euros.

If legislation to fit carbon monoxide detectors were introduced no doubt it would suffer the same fate. You just cannot save people from their own stupidity if they are determined to take unnecessary risks to save a bit of money. It would not be feasible for the Government to inspect each and every home.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Beware also of bogus gasmen. Both Repsol and Cepsa make a previous appointment with you before coming to inspect. They will NOT just turn up at the door. There are scam teams about that just come to the door unannounced and they will, once in the house, not be easy to get rid of until they have scammed you into new regulators and a new contract.


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## pnwheels (Mar 3, 2013)

Remember too that carbon monoxide detectors have a finite life- they must be replaced when the manufacturer specifies!


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## Gazeebo (Jan 23, 2015)

Unfortunately, we are at the mercy of the landlords, as many are. In England we have always had smoke alarms and cm detectors. We have rented out our house in England and bought a new cm detector to be safe. It is also law to have certificates for both gas and electricity before renting in England. We have our boiler serviced every year. It is about time other countries woke up to the dangers, ignorance is not bliss for those who are killed (or perhaps it would be manslaughter). Anyway, we are renting from a British couple and we are absolutely disgusted with them.
It answers why we have been feeling poorly on and off since we have been here, especially when we had the bad weather for about 4 days and all the doors were closed. We have been backwards and forwards to the pharmacists for different rememdies and all the time it could have been the cm in the villa.
I will keep you all posted as to the outcome.


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## peedee (Aug 30, 2015)

We have a fixed detector in the house and a small portable we take with us on our travels just to be safe.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

stefig said:


> Oh, that's OK then. People can just die rather than the landlords having an obligation to fit a cheap little alarm, or rather than the government raising awareness about it.


IMO awareness should be raised about it (and radon).I'm not sure if it should be landlords' responsibility of tennants', but making more people aware of this problem (and radon) can never be bad.
I know that people in the town where I live have died because of badly serviced heaters/ boilers


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## Gazeebo (Jan 23, 2015)

Well had the 'engineer' round to look at the boiler and he banged the flu pipe together a bit more, looked at the boiler, turned down the ouput and told us the flu pipe should not have a bend in it, but should be straight and vent out, instead of a bent one venting out. 

He tested the boiler by putting our cm alarm by the side of the boiler, but it did not go off? Don't they have special equipment of their own as they do in the UK?

He told us that there should be a vent in the door of the kitchen cupboard the boiler is in and there should be venting in the kitchen. He suggested we leave the window open to vent the kitchen?  We are actually going to do this, but have bought a mosquito net for the window. He said he would phone the landlords.

Landlady phoned and said they have never had a problem before and the boiler was new, which it does look like. She said the he was a good engineer and did use a tester on the boiler (not when we were then, unless he whipped it out when we turned our backs). She also said that he was of the opinion it was ok. Not what he had told us. AND he was the man who fitted the boiler according to her. 

She was not willing to do anything, but then spoke about builders and that they could not even get builders out at the moment to do work on their house. I did explain that perhaps there wasn't a problem because during the summer the doors and windows may have been left open by the tenants and there was no cb alarm anyway. Doh.

I have informed her that if the cb alarm goes off again, we will not be staying. 

Is it me? I would be so worried if this was my property and my tenants as carbon monoxide poisoning is a killer. Thick as ---t springs to mind.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Gazeebo said:


> Well had the 'engineer' round to look at the boiler and he banged the flu pipe together a bit more, looked at the boiler, turned down the ouput and told us the flu pipe should not have a bend in it, but should be straight and vent out, instead of a bent one venting out.
> 
> He tested the boiler by putting our cm alarm by the side of the boiler, but it did not go off? Don't they have special equipment of their own as they do in the UK?
> 
> ...


Which gas supply firm was he from?


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

Gazeebo said:


> He told us that there should be a vent in the door of the kitchen cupboard the boiler is in and there should be venting in the kitchen. He suggested we leave the window open to vent the kitchen?  /QUOTE]
> 
> Suggesting you leave a window open might help with the carbon monoxide problem, I'm not sure, but it would not get over the fact that there should be a vent fitted in the event of a gas leak. We were told we had to have a vent fitted which must be within a certain heigh off the ground because gas is heavier than air and if there was a leak, or an appliance was accidentally left on, the gas would sink and it must be able to escape safely. Our vent had to be put in the front door as in the kitchen the inside floor level is lower than the ground level outside so the vent could not be installed low enough in the kitchen.
> 
> I am surprised a gas technician would give you that advice and it would not fill me with confidence.


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## Gazeebo (Jan 23, 2015)

Nor us! This is on-going and we are getting our own engineer for advice. It seems that carbon monoxide is not considered serious by landlords or agents alike. I hear what you say about gas, but carbon monoxide is a by-product of burning something like gas and unfortunately cannot be detected by smell. Being advised to leave a window open to vent a room for cm is a bit of a joke, but not really funny considering the amount of deaths caused by it. The effects of the poisoning, even if it does not kill you, can cause damage for life in some cases.

We are not convinced that the man who came out is actually a qualified technician - but time will tell.


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