# a boat in greece



## sailorboy

Hi, we're thinking of moving from the uk to southern greece, buying a small not too expensive yacht around 35 ft and living aboard. sometimes lazing about on a mooring and sometimes cruising the islands. Sounds idylic, but would like any info as to what pitfalls there are. we're normal people but will have some income from a pension etc.

thanks........Terry n Caz


----------



## AggelaMeToDelfina

sailorboy said:


> Hi, we're thinking of moving from the uk to southern greece, buying a small not too expensive yacht around 35 ft and living aboard. sometimes lazing about on a mooring and sometimes cruising the islands. Sounds idylic, but would like any info as to what pitfalls there are. we're normal people but will have some income from a pension etc.
> 
> thanks........Terry n Caz


It does sound idyllic. Of course there is that quote from Donald Trump that goes, "The second-greatest day of a man's life is the day he buys a yacht, but the _greatest_ day of a man's life is the day he sells it." ('Think Like A Billionaire', 2004).


----------



## mike-b

Hi Sailorboy,

Sounds fantastic to me, My wife and I recently spent two weeks on a flotilla around Lefkas and Cephalonia, doing just what you mentioned, sometimes idling a day away in a secluded bay accessible only from the sea, and sometimes sailing around Ithica, Meganisi or ocountless other small beautiful islands.
I would be very interested in any replies you get to this thread as I have thought about doing the same. I know a bonus to the Greek islands is that there are no mooring fees, but I don't know of any other costs associated with staying long term, food is relatively cheap and we were charged €3 to fill the water tank. We were in a thirty foot Beneteau, which had a shallow draft meaning we could moor in even the smallest harbour.
It was heaven and I'm counting the days till we can do it again.

Mike


----------



## greekjock

sailorboy said:


> Hi, we're thinking of moving from the uk to southern greece, buying a small not too expensive yacht around 35 ft and living aboard. sometimes lazing about on a mooring and sometimes cruising the islands. Sounds idylic, but would like any info as to what pitfalls there are. we're normal people but will have some income from a pension etc.
> 
> thanks........Terry n Caz


Hi Terry & Caz.
Hopefully I can give you some help with your query. We have done something similar to what you are planning...bought a boat which we keep in Greece and use it as a semi-permanent home from home .There are so many things that you should know that it is difficult to know where to start. So I will do my best.
Firstly...forget the saying quoted by the previous correspondent..".that the best day is when you sell the boat " ..or something like that. We bought a 35' boat almost 4 years ago and each day has been better than the previous. 
How much sailing experience have you ..You do not need to be Ellen McArthur to sail in Greek waters,but a reasonable level of competence is required. In 2003 we went on a flotilla holiday in Greece..this was the very first time that either of us had set foot on a small boat. Needless to say we were hooked. The following year we went on another flot.in Croatia in the summer and in Greece in the autumn..it was then that we started thinking about buying. However before then we did our RYA Day Skipper theory certificate in the UK and the practical in Greece ,before committing to buying the boat which we had set our minds on. 
I would suggest that you did a charter or a flotilla holiday to give you an idea of what to expect.
There are hundreds and hundreds of boats for sale in Greece..the good,bad and ugly. Be very careful about what you buy. There are some real dogs dressed up to sell. We were very lucky in that ours turned out to be a gem,needing only a little TLC and in the 4 years of cruising has not given any major problems.
One thing I would say is that if you are not a very practical "hands on" type of person.....forget it...you need to be able to do any work yourself on the boat ,otherwise it will cost you a fortune and give you grief. The Greeks are lovely folks but generally unreliable and not the best of engineers. We have met several people who a have had real problems getting work done. 
The good news is that it is still very affordable to keep a boat in Greece...Mooring up in town harbours is very often free..electricity and water are cheap...but water can sometimes be difficult and a bit dear. Police and port formalities are not too bad,provided you don't hassle them.There is a large livaboard community around the place so you can get information and tips from others like yourselves.
Costwise ..we reckon to budget about 50 Euros per day,but this includes eating out 75% of evening meals. Diesel is about £1 per litre....you need it as you will motor a lot ..the winds are not reliable!!! . Spares and the like are more expensive than the UK,about 10% or so.There are plenty of boatyards around the 
place where you can leave the boat for extended periods,either in or out of the water.
At the moment,as I am still working part-time ,we use the boat for 6 weeks in the spring and 6 weeks in the autumn...hauling it out of the water in between. At the moment I am paying about 1000 euros for the winter period (7 months) this includes lifting, storage and launching. Quite honestly the summer months are to be avoided as it is very hot and crowded with charter boats and flotillas ,unless you like that sort of thing.
You need to plan your income/budget etc and be confident that you have the finance to live comfortably..we have often come across people who are trying to cruise on a very tight budget and quite frankly they are miserable,and dreading a major expense,like an engine failure for instance. We are by no means rolling in cash,I work in the building trade ,and my wife is a retired teacher,but we have reasonable savings and an average income,so it has worked out well for us. 
We often have people coming over for a chat ,asking about how we get on and I always tell them that if we can do it then anyone can!!!
You only regret the things that you never do.
I have rambled on enough...hope this is of some help and inspiration.


----------



## Costas_GB_and_GR

sailorboy said:


> Hi, we're thinking of moving from the uk to southern greece, buying a small not too expensive yacht around 35 ft and living aboard. sometimes lazing about on a mooring and sometimes cruising the islands. Sounds idylic, but would like any info as to what pitfalls there are. we're normal people but will have some income from a pension etc.
> 
> thanks........Terry n Caz


Hello Terry and Caz,

I would suggest you contact me on my email at(SNIP) and I would give you contact details of the President of the Nautical Club at Faliro, just outside Athens. He has a 40ft yatch that teaches skipper courses as well as races. He has over 30,000 miles 'under his belt'. If you also interested in taking part in a race he can arrange that too.

He has won quite a few rallies, as well as arranging and doing maintenance, can check a boat out for you etc...

He is a Nautical club president, so that speaks for itself..

Take care

Costas


----------



## Magpie

sailorboy said:


> Hi, we're thinking of moving from the uk to southern greece, buying a small not too expensive yacht around 35 ft and living aboard. sometimes lazing about on a mooring and sometimes cruising the islands. Sounds idylic, but would like any info as to what pitfalls there are. we're normal people but will have some income from a pension etc.
> 
> thanks........Terry n Caz


Hi Terry & Caz
We also are planning to move to Greece and living aboard for most of the time, but considering buying a yacht in the UK and sailing there to avoid issues with VAT and the exchange rate etc. However the down side is that UK registered boats sometimes get charged more where there are mooring fees.....
We are researching all the options and hope to start to do this in the spring of 2009 - giving up jobs and spending a couple of months sorting stuff out then setting off.
GreekJock's response was very encouraging I thought. We have sailed in the Ionian in mid summer and yes it is hot, but still really pleasant. You have to be prepared to anchor a lot as the smaller harbours really fill up early. Have you found out any more info? Healthcare options and how to deal with mail etc are some of the things we have to sort out, as well as potentially finding a small place to rent so we have at least some land base to store stuff and retreat to in winter. Could do with some more discussions with those who have done this if there is anyone out there.
Rose & Brian


----------



## greekjock

Magpie said:


> Hi Terry & Caz
> We also are planning to move to Greece and living aboard for most of the time, but considering buying a yacht in the UK and sailing there to avoid issues with VAT and the exchange rate etc. However the down side is that UK registered boats sometimes get charged more where there are mooring fees.....
> We are researching all the options and hope to start to do this in the spring of 2009 - giving up jobs and spending a couple of months sorting stuff out then setting off.
> GreekJock's response was very encouraging I thought. We have sailed in the Ionian in mid summer and yes it is hot, but still really pleasant. You have to be prepared to anchor a lot as the smaller harbours really fill up early. Have you found out any more info? Healthcare options and how to deal with mail etc are some of the things we have to sort out, as well as potentially finding a small place to rent so we have at least some land base to store stuff and retreat to in winter. Could do with some more discussions with those who have done this if there is anyone out there.
> Rose & Brian




Hi Rose & Brian.. I hope I can answer some of the points which you have raised 
There are literally hundred of boats for sale in Greece..the good ,bad and ugly.
Leaving the last 2 aside,there are some very good brokers in Greece ..british owned who can deal with all your requirements. The prices tend to be significantly less than those in the UK.,and you will be buying in ££ therefore the exchange rate is not an issue, Regarding VAT almost all boats will have a VAT certificate with them,unless it is an ex-charter boat in which case the seller will have to sort this out. If in any doubt..walk away,there is plenty of choice available,and there will be more this coming year,as the recession bites. We bought our boat in Malta,which is another good place to buy .as there is no language problem,and it is near to the main cruising areas. Regarding buying in the Uk and sailing over...yes if you have plenty time,are experienced enough, have the right boat(and equipment) and are prepared to have it hammered a bit on the trip. You can of course come through the French canals,but this is slow,expensive and not without difficulties.
We keep the boat in Greece all the year round..and spend about 6 weeks in the spring and autumn and working part time in between. 
Healthcare is an issue you will need to investigate yourself as it depends on the individual .We rely on the reciprocal NHS /EU arrangement so far (touch wood) no problems. We use e mail a lot,usually from e mail cafes and offices ..there are plenty available even in small villages. We do not have internet facilities on the boat. too complicated and uses too much juice..means the fridge can't keep the beer cool!!!
It would be very easy to find a place to rent ,also quite cheap.Usual caveats apply re services etc.

Have a look at this broker Williams and Smithells (you will have to google them as I do not seem to be allowed to post the website on here) also in Malta... S&D yachts. This will give you an idea of what's available.. All prices will be negotiable I am sure. Good luck.


----------



## sawasdee

*information boats in Greece*



sailorboy said:


> Hi, we're thinking of moving from the uk to southern greece, buying a small not too expensive yacht around 35 ft and living aboard. sometimes lazing about on a mooring and sometimes cruising the islands. Sounds idylic, but would like any info as to what pitfalls there are. we're normal people but will have some income from a pension etc.
> 
> thanks........Terry n Caz


Hi Sailorboy,

if you need other info, prices and so on, I give you this e-mail address [email protected] He is a friend of mine, we was his guests once in a fantastic catamaran and once in a very fashionable caicos. We didn' pay because of our friendshipness and I don't know very much about the boats, exept that they are so beautiful. Our days in Greece with him and his wife are in our heart, unforgettable. I know he's moving somewhere for work and maybe he will sell the boats. Ask him, he's so good man. He will help you in anything. Bye


----------



## DebiLomax

*Any ideas about ICC - boating abroad registration*

HI - thanks for such a detailed account of boating in Greece - my retired parents spend their holidays in Greece and my father has recently thought about purchasing a boat from a friend who lives permanently on one of the islands, and keeping it there. Apparently you need to be ICC registered? Do you have any info regarding this? Dad used to skipper boats in the med and has quite a lot of experience of flotilla and independent sailing holidays. If you are ICC registered what did this involve? Hope you can help Debi



greekjock said:


> Hi Terry & Caz.
> Hopefully I can give you some help with your query. We have done something similar to what you are planning...bought a boat which we keep in Greece and use it as a semi-permanent home from home .There are so many things that you should know that it is difficult to know where to start. So I will do my best.
> Firstly...forget the saying quoted by the previous correspondent..".that the best day is when you sell the boat " ..or something like that. We bought a 35' boat almost 4 years ago and each day has been better than the previous.
> How much sailing experience have you ..You do not need to be Ellen McArthur to sail in Greek waters,but a reasonable level of competence is required. In 2003 we went on a flotilla holiday in Greece..this was the very first time that either of us had set foot on a small boat. Needless to say we were hooked. The following year we went on another flot.in Croatia in the summer and in Greece in the autumn..it was then that we started thinking about buying. However before then we did our RYA Day Skipper theory certificate in the UK and the practical in Greece ,before committing to buying the boat which we had set our minds on.
> I would suggest that you did a charter or a flotilla holiday to give you an idea of what to expect.
> There are hundreds and hundreds of boats for sale in Greece..the good,bad and ugly. Be very careful about what you buy. There are some real dogs dressed up to sell. We were very lucky in that ours turned out to be a gem,needing only a little TLC and in the 4 years of cruising has not given any major problems.
> One thing I would say is that if you are not a very practical "hands on" type of person.....forget it...you need to be able to do any work yourself on the boat ,otherwise it will cost you a fortune and give you grief. The Greeks are lovely folks but generally unreliable and not the best of engineers. We have met several people who a have had real problems getting work done.
> The good news is that it is still very affordable to keep a boat in Greece...Mooring up in town harbours is very often free..electricity and water are cheap...but water can sometimes be difficult and a bit dear. Police and port formalities are not too bad,provided you don't hassle them.There is a large livaboard community around the place so you can get information and tips from others like yourselves.
> Costwise ..we reckon to budget about 50 Euros per day,but this includes eating out 75% of evening meals. Diesel is about £1 per litre....you need it as you will motor a lot ..the winds are not reliable!!! . Spares and the like are more expensive than the UK,about 10% or so.There are plenty of boatyards around the
> place where you can leave the boat for extended periods,either in or out of the water.
> At the moment,as I am still working part-time ,we use the boat for 6 weeks in the spring and 6 weeks in the autumn...hauling it out of the water in between. At the moment I am paying about 1000 euros for the winter period (7 months) this includes lifting, storage and launching. Quite honestly the summer months are to be avoided as it is very hot and crowded with charter boats and flotillas ,unless you like that sort of thing.
> You need to plan your income/budget etc and be confident that you have the finance to live comfortably..we have often come across people who are trying to cruise on a very tight budget and quite frankly they are miserable,and dreading a major expense,like an engine failure for instance. We are by no means rolling in cash,I work in the building trade ,and my wife is a retired teacher,but we have reasonable savings and an average income,so it has worked out well for us.
> We often have people coming over for a chat ,asking about how we get on and I always tell them that if we can do it then anyone can!!!
> You only regret the things that you never do.
> I have rambled on enough...hope this is of some help and inspiration.


----------



## MunichDave

sailorboy said:


> Hi, we're thinking of moving from the uk to southern greece, buying a small not too expensive yacht around 35 ft and living aboard. sometimes lazing about on a mooring and sometimes cruising the islands. Sounds idylic, but would like any info as to what pitfalls there are. we're normal people but will have some income from a pension etc.
> 
> thanks........Terry n Caz


Terry n Caz,

How did you get on I am looking at packing up here in Germany towards the end of this year, and looking at Livaboard early next, I would be intrested in your experiences, Boat purchase, VAT or non VAT, where you plan to stay etc.

Dave


----------



## scoobie

sailorboy said:


> Hi, we're thinking of moving from the uk to southern greece, buying a small not too expensive yacht around 35 ft and living aboard. sometimes lazing about on a mooring and sometimes cruising the islands. Sounds idylic, but would like any info as to what pitfalls there are. we're normal people but will have some income from a pension etc.
> 
> thanks........Terry n Caz


Hi, You have had loads of great replies and advice already. We bought a Greek registered boat a couple of years ago and there were no problems with the process. You need a lawyer here and they will deal with everything for you. There are lots of public marinas around Greece but not all of them are really that suitable for the winter months. The private marinas are expensive but have all the facilities you need for the winter months when you can not go out, so consider that. We have met many people who liveaboard , it seems to be coming more common and a great alternative to buying a property, giving you the freedom to change location. 
If you can it would be worth visiting the area you want to be and checking out all the private and public marinas for boats for sale. Many people just advertise privately with for sale signs on their boats , i am sure you could find a bargain that way. Most of the private marinas run sailing/motor courses for a day or few days so you can get the certificates you need for insurance purposes and to purchase the boat. You could also do this in the Uk with the RYA before you come over and may be cheaper. 
Good luck


----------



## Costas_GB_and_GR

Hi all,

regarding ICC contact RYA. I believe it is only a case to convert a UK certificate to International.

This is from RYA's website...

RYA Fees

If you are an RYA member your ICC will be issued free of charge. If you are not an RYA member there is currently a fee of £38.00.

There is an option to fast track your application (in two days) for an additional fee of £10.

Our advice would be that you join the RYA, not only for the savings it brings you for your ICC, but also for the other services they provide to boat owners.
ICC Country Rules

Any country issuing ICCs can only do so to its own nationals or residents. The candidates must be at least 16 years old, be physically and mentally fit, and in particular must have sufficient powers of vision and hearing.

Take care
Costas

PS. Anybody that needs qualifications in Greece or any boating help, please contact me on this forum. I learn 'the basics' by a man (called Sakis) who used to have the Greek Olympic champion Bountouris as his crew. 

Nowdays, he has built by himself a 40 ft' from plans and he rents it and also teaches people how to race sailboats. It is superb and fun experience. I had lots of fun with him on smaller sail boats.

Contact me on this forum and I will pass his details.


----------



## mitch000

sailorboy said:


> Hi, we're thinking of moving from the uk to southern greece, buying a small not too expensive yacht around 35 ft and living aboard. sometimes lazing about on a mooring and sometimes cruising the islands. Sounds idylic, but would like any info as to what pitfalls there are. we're normal people but will have some income from a pension etc.
> 
> thanks........Terry n Caz



just found this info on this topic from gregg yachts
Buying a boat

Buying a boat, the procedure to be followed is not the same in all cases,

This section will concentrate in 3 most usual cases :

a. Buying a Boat with Greek Flag

The majority of listed boats are with Greek Flag.

Buying a Greek flag boat by a foreign national means that most probably the boat has to change flag.

The boat can remain in the new ownership under the Greek Flag under certain conditions and requirements however the new owner (as non Greek National) usually will prefer to change the registration to his country.

The majority of sailing yachts under Greek Flag above 30 feet, are VAT exempt.

This is due to a charter status that they maintain although many of those boats one way or another are actually used only as private yachts.

After an agreement is reached for the purchase of the yacht you have selected, we will draw a Memorandum of Agreement (M.O.A.) between the Seller and the Purchaser where all the parameters of the sale will be included together with an inventory list.

The Greek Law requires a certain bureaucratic procedure to be followed during the transaction which however safeguards the interests of the Buyer and prevents any debts or any other financial burdens that could exist on the boat to follow the boat after the purchase.

It is our recommendation to the interested buyer to use a lawyer to act as his representative on the purchase.

This lawyer will perform checking of boat titles and documentation required by the Greek State and furnished by the Seller, inspection of registry files and finally monitor deletion procedure of boat from the Greek Registry.

Furthermore payments can go from the Buyer to the lawyer who will pay the Vendor according to the terms of the Purchase Agreement.

Following signing of the M.O.A. by both parties we can recommend you a lawyer of Athens experienced in this kind of transactions.

It is understood that the lawyer is acting on behalf of the Buyer and thus is paid by him.

The cost so far for this service has amounted to Euro 700.

A boat that has no VAT paid will be required to pay this VAT if the boat is sold to an E.U. National.

Even a E.U. National though maybe exempted from payment of VAT if his commercial activity during purchase may include boat chartering.

The VAT in Greece amounts to 23%.

The duration of the purchase procedure in Greece , from signing of M.O.A. to deletion of boat from the Greek Register will amount to around 5 weeks.

The boat can be sailed by the new owner only after a Bill of Sale has been issued and officially signed by the Vendor as well as by the Buyer and also the Deletion Certificate has been issued.

A yacht sold to a non E.U. Citizen does not require to pay any outstanding VAT to the boat.

He will require though the yacht to be custom cleared from the E.U.

The cost of this transaction varies between ports and can lie between Euro 400 – 600.

The custom clearing will take place before the deletion from the Greek Register.

We will arrange for a custom clearer to perform this procedure on your behalf.

Duration of this procedure normally does not exceed 3 working days.

b. Buying a Yacht with E.U. Flag

Buying a boat in Greece with a E.U. but non Greek Flag the procedures are the same as if the yacht is bought in another E.U. Country.

In this event we will still draw a Sales & Purchase Agreement “Memorandum of Agreement” M.O.A. between you as Buyer and the Vendor.

We will then follow the procedures as these are dictated by the E.U. State the yacht is registered in.

c. Buying a Yacht with a non E.U. Flag

The procedure to be followed in this case is similar to the procedure mentioned in paragraph “b” above.


----------



## Jolly Roger

I decided 13 years ago to take a slightly different approach. I bought a yacht in the UK and sailed it to Greece. My wife is not a sailor, so we moor the boat locally and rent a small house. This has been ideal and I can go sailing whenever I want to and she can stay at home.
A useful book for anyone cosidering liveaboad, is Sell up and Sail by Bill and Laurel Cooper.
A friend has an 8.3 metre Westerly Merlin, UK registered, for sale here in Kefalonia. Send me a PM for more details if anyone should be interested.


----------

