# Which Visas for year round



## kimo (Feb 12, 2011)

So after years of humming and hawing, it looks like we will be retiring to Mexico next year, for how long, who knows, but based on numerous things, its the first place we will try for long term as Canadian Expats. We will both be 55, my wife can retire with a union pension of $1800 a month, I however, will have no pension until gov't one kicks in when I turn 60 (I was self employed). We will be selling our mortgage free house for around $300k, and will be budgeting around a $100-$150k to buy in Mexico, probably on the west coast somewhere, with that info, what would be the best visas for us to go with. someone suggested just a 180 day tourist visas because our income isn't enough based on the new rules, and then just renew it every 5-6 months, any suggestion and reasons why, pros, cons etc. Gracias in advance.


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## RVGRINGO (May 16, 2007)

The 180 day tourist permit would preclude being able to fly out if you have a Canadian car in Mexico. The car cannot be left behind. The 180 days is strictly enforced.

The Residente Temporal would allow free entry/exit, with or without a Canadian car, for up to 4 years. Then, you have to go to Residente Permanente or leave, start over and qualify again.

The Residente Permanente would allow free entry/exit, but no Canadian/US car. No renewal needed. There are tax advantages if selling a home for profit. Working is permitted.


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## grotton (Apr 20, 2012)

And if you leave the 300k from the sale of your house in an investment account for one year and then present your one year of statements proving the balance to a Mexican Consulate in Canada, you both should qualify for a Residente Temporal. This would would probably require you to rent for a year prior to buying, which might be about the right amount of time for you to decide where you want to live permanently.


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## chicois8 (Aug 8, 2009)

If you started your post with something like: "We have vacationed in Mexico for 12 years,love the country and its people and would love to retire there" Then I would say you've done your home work and go for it. 
Before you spent half of your nest egg on buying a home and the associated costs of moving,health insurance,etc. I would come down on an FMM for 180 days, visit different areas and rent a house instead of being locked into a purchase you can not sell....


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

chicois8 said:


> If you started your post with something like: "We have vacationed in Mexico for 12 years,love the country and its people and would love to retire there" Then I would say you've done your home work and go for it.
> Before you spent half of your nest egg on buying a home and the associated costs of moving,health insurance,etc. I would come down on an FMM for 180 days, visit different areas and rent a house instead of being locked into a purchase you can not sell....


I agree. Your original post doesn't make clear how much you experience you have visiting or living in Mexico. 

If your experience living (living is different that visiting) here is limited, then don't buy until you have some experience. I have several friends who moved to Latin America and bought a house thinking it was forever, only to discover after a year that it was not for them.


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## Hound Dog (Jan 18, 2009)

By all means, come down on a tourist visa with the intent to cross the border within the 180 day limitation. you can cross back into the U.S. or Guatemala or Belize and return to Mexico within a few days. I strongly urge you to rent - not buy - until you have explored options for locations where you may wish to establish your permanent residence. Lake Chapala or Metro Guadalajara are actually good choices for a good location from which to explore options in central, nortn central and southern Mexico. You can find nice, inexpensive housing at Lake Chapala if you seek out rentals in areas with modest housing costs. The main thing is to rent until you get a better grip on what you sek here. You must consider your Spanish language skills and what sort of climate you seek as the climatic differences beween the coast and the highland plateaus can be remarkable


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## eagles100 (Jun 28, 2011)

grotton said:


> And if you leave the 300k from the sale of your house in an investment account for one year and then present your one year of statements proving the balance to a Mexican Consulate in Canada, you both should qualify for a Residente Temporal. This would would probably require you to rent for a year prior to buying, which might be about the right amount of time for you to decide where you want to live permanently.


I agree with this but before you go through this process, come down for a visit. Internet searches will not show you the real Mexico with its pros and cons. 

As a Canadian, you need proof of approx. $125,000 each for one year to become a Permanent Resident.

This is the info from the Mexican Consulate in Montreal. If you're in another area of the country, do a search for your city.

Permanent Resident Visa

*Permanent Resident Visa	
*
Foreigners who wish to remain in Mexico indefinitely may apply in person for a Permanent Resident Visa at the Consular Office closest to their place of residence.

Requirements:

Visa application form printed on both sides properly completed and signed.
Passport or valid travel and identity document, original and a photocopy of the page containing the photograph and personal data.
Original and a photocopy of the migratory document accrediting the legal stay in Canada (only for applicants who are not Canadian citizens).
One photograph measuring 3.9 cm x 3.1 cm, face uncovered, no eyeglasses, frontal view, in colour and with white background.
Payment of fees in cash for the issuance of the visa.
Applicants must also present the following documents, depending on the category under which they are applying:

a) Retirees or Pensioners:

1. Original and a photocopy of proof of investment or bank accounts with an average monthly balance equivalent to $124,663.00 Canadian dollars during the last twelve months, or

2. Original and a photocopy of proof of monthly income from pensions in the amount of $2,493.00 Canadian dollars during the past six months.


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## mattoleriver (Oct 21, 2011)

eagles100 said:


> ...
> 
> a) Retirees or Pensioners:
> 
> ...


I see similar statements quite often and am left wondering if it is strictly an either/or proposition. Are combinations of these conditions not taken into account? If, for instance, one had $120,000 balance AND $2300 monthly pension would one be considered to be lacking sufficient funds and therefore unlikely to get a visa? Is this something that may differ between consulates?


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## Longford (May 25, 2012)

Tourist cards which allow you to be in Mexico for 180 days, whatever the new name for them is now, are intended for tourists ... not residents. Don't start your journey in Mexico by succumbing to suggestions to break the law ... if that's what someone advises. Rent a year or more before you purchase, if you really do want to purchase, is sound advice. You might want to take some familiarization trips to several parts of Mexico during which you would separate yourself from the tourist crowd to see if living in Mexico, speaking Spanish, changing cultural habits ... agrees with the both of you. If you have or expect some health challenges then select the relatively few communities/areas where the needs you may have will be met. After the familiarization trips you can return home and then start the paperwork necessary to enter Mexico and live in Mexico in accordance with the law. Best of luck with your planning.


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## kimo (Feb 12, 2011)

chicois8 said:


> If you started your post with something like: "We have vacationed in Mexico for 12 years,love the country and its people and would love to retire there" Then I would say you've done your home work and go for it.
> Before you spent half of your nest egg on buying a home and the associated costs of moving,health insurance,etc. I would come down on an FMM for 180 days, visit different areas and rent a house instead of being locked into a purchase you can not sell....


Sorry, I guess I just assumed that people would think we had been to Mexico if we are planning on retiring there, but guess there are people who move somewhere blindly, That's not the case, we have been coming to Mexico on and off for 15 years, most recently, over the last few years, we have spent at least a month in Manzanillo on 3 separate occasions, (that's our fave place) have also on several occasions, spent a 2-3 weeks at a time in other west coast places like, PVR, Huatalco, Mazatlan, Cabo and San Felipe, spent a week in Melaque, (too small), and did Cancun once and Merida once, didn't like either, just not for us. And also, will not have a car, as we won't need it, especially if we choose Manzanillo, which is the front runner, but a lot will depend on what we can get with our budget, and the other places are getting too pricey.


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## chicois8 (Aug 8, 2009)

Longford said:


> Tourist cards which allow you to be in Mexico for 180 days, whatever the new name for them is now, are intended for tourists ... not residents. Don't start your journey in Mexico by succumbing to suggestions to break the law ....


1. The tourist card ( which is really a visitors permit ) is now and has been for a couple of years called an FMM...

2. Would you please show a Mexican Government website that states staying in Mexico on an FMM for 180 days then renewing for another 180 is against Mexican Law...


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## RVGRINGO (May 16, 2007)

Do websites rule?
The 180 day tourist permit is just that, not a day longer and not renewable.
If you want to stay longer, return to the border on time, turn in the expiring one and get a new one when you return to Mexico.


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## kimo (Feb 12, 2011)

chicois8 said:


> 1. The tourist card ( which is really a visitors permit ) is now and has been for a couple of years called an FMM...
> 
> 2. Would you please show a Mexican Government website that states staying in Mexico on an FMM for 180 days then renewing for another 180 is against Mexican Law...


That's the problem we are having, not knowing what is or isn't correct, so many different opinions and different understandings of what the rules and laws are, its hard to know what to believe. For example, Does the rule still apply, that your income must be 250 times the amount of the minimum wage in Mexico city, or that if you own property, then you only need half the income of someone who doesn't own property, or one person needs the full required income, but the spouse only needs half, etc etc


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## chicois8 (Aug 8, 2009)

RVGRINGO said:


> Do websites rule?
> The 180 day tourist permit is just that, not a day longer and not renewable.
> If you want to stay longer, return to the border on time, turn in the expiring one and get a new one when you return to Mexico.


My mistake in wording, I ment to say you get an FMM for the 180 days and make a border run to turn it in and get a new FMM for 180 days...if a website is and official Mexican Gov. website then yes they Rule.....


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## RVGRINGO (May 16, 2007)

kimo said:


> ............. Does the rule still apply, that your income must be 250 times the amount of the minimum wage in Mexico city, or that if you own property, then you only need half the income of someone who doesn't own property, or one person needs the full required income, but the spouse only needs half, etc etc


Things have changed with the new law & rules, and also because of confusion. Some of that confusion is because of language misinterpretation and some is because it is taking INM a long time to understand, itself.
Now, you must apply for either temporary or permanent residence permits at the Mexican consulate nearest your home. They will tell you their exact requirements. Once you get pre-approval, you will have about 6 months to enter Mexico. Then, you must establish an address and go to the nearest INM offices within 30 days to begin the finalization process for your visa. That can take a couple of months, or even longer. Less if the planets are in correct alignment.
With enough assets/income, one might qualify for either visa, but the other might not. So, the other could come as a tourist. Actually, that is not a problem, as once the primary spouse gains the visa card, the other becomes entitled to the same status as a family member and can get it in Mexico. Happy ending?


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## Longford (May 25, 2012)

The Mexican government very clearly created classes of permissions / visas which foreigners are expected to obtain to be legally present in the country. Let's not play games and say we don't understand the difference between a resident and a tourist. Residents are expected to comply with the law by obtaining one of the visas which allow them to live in Mexico. Tourist permission is for 180 days, non-renewable in a year ... to the best of my knowledge. That illegal alien expats circumvent the law, sometimes with the assistance of willing corrupt Mexican government employees ... is also something anyone who has spent time in Mexico understands. Behaving badly doesn't mean you are acting within the regulations. But the 180 day issue is moot ... when someone is residing in Mexico. Applicable only to tourists.


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## chicois8 (Aug 8, 2009)

Longford said:


> The Mexican government very clearly created classes of permissions / visas which foreigners are expected to obtain to be legally present in the country. Let's not play games and say we don't understand the difference between a resident and a tourist. Residents are expected to comply with the law by obtaining one of the visas which allow them to live in Mexico. Tourist permission is for 180 days, non-renewable in a year ... to the best of my knowledge. That illegal alien expats circumvent the law, sometimes with the assistance of willing corrupt Mexican government employees ... is also something anyone who has spent time in Mexico understands. Behaving badly doesn't mean you are acting within the regulations. But the 180 day issue is moot ... when someone is residing in Mexico. Applicable only to tourists.


 Same old babble Longford, again I ask you to show from an Official Mexican Gov. website where doing a border run every 180 days are against any rule and where it says tourist permission is for 180 and can only be gotten 1 time per year...

As usual you will not be able to do this and disappear in for awhile in Chicago...I wonder how many years it has been since you have been in Mexico for any extended time?


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

chicois8 said:


> Same old babble Longford, again I ask you to show from an Official Mexican Gov. website where doing a border run every 180 days are against any rule and where it says tourist permission is for 180 and can only be gotten 1 time per year...
> 
> As usual you will not be able to do this and disappear in for awhile in Chicago...I wonder how many years it has been since you have been in Mexico for any extended time?


:behindsofa:


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## Marishka (Feb 1, 2009)

RVGRINGO said:


> Things have changed with the new law & rules, and also because of confusion. Some of that confusion is because of language misinterpretation and some is because it is taking INM a long time to understand, itself.
> Now, you must apply for either temporary or permanent residence permits at the Mexican consulate nearest your home. They will tell you their exact requirements.


According to Chapala attorney Spencer McMullen, in a Q&A he did for _Mexico Expat Express_, some Mexican consulates in the U.S. are making a lot of mistakes. He said that some consulates either don't know the difference between a Residente Permanente and Residente Temporal visa or don't care, and that people applying for a visa should insist on getting exactly what they apply for.

For that reason, I think it's important for applicants to know ahead of time exactly what kind of visa they want and what the requirement are. Rolly Brook's How do I get a visa for México? page at his website is a good place to start.


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## dcraig (May 14, 2011)

*Apply as married or single*

Here's a twist on the question, a couple (male/female), who have been together for 19 years but never married, would they have to apply, and qualify as individuals? 
And is proof of $125,000 investment for one year per person, all that's needed,
or is there still a minimum monthly income, ? And does that $125,000 have to remain invested, even after they move to Mexico, or can it be taken out and put toward a house in Mexico. And I couldn't see an answer to the question, does owning property in Mexico, reduce the monthly income required, if so, by how much?


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

dcraig said:


> Here's a twist on the question, a couple (male/female), who have been together for 19 years but never married, would they have to apply, and qualify as individuals?
> And is proof of $125,000 investment for one year per person, all that's needed,
> or is there still a minimum monthly income, ? And does that $125,000 have to remain invested, even after they move to Mexico, or can it be taken out and put toward a house in Mexico. And I couldn't see an answer to the question, does owning property in Mexico, reduce the monthly income required, if so, by how much?


To answer part of your question, INM (Instituto Nacional de Migracion, immigration) does not monitor what happens with the income or assets after you obtain a visa. It doesn't matter if your income changes or if you use the assets. INM will not check up on them again until you apply for a new visa.


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## RVGRINGO (May 16, 2007)

I suspect that the situation might be solved by one qualifying for the Residente Temporal visa and the other entering on an FMM tourist permit. Once the Temporal visa is in hand, after a few months in Mexico, the second person could apply for the same status as a concubine, etc. That should work. Mexico does respect such relationships.


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