# Housing fee on dewa bills/offer



## hopeful (Jul 29, 2008)

Hi guys, i've worked the housing fee out to be 10,000 aed per year on a 200k property. Is this about right?

Double checking things now, because hubby received his offer today and I think they are taking the mickey! They have offered 33,000 aed per month as a senior electrical engineer. Thats all in too, no housing allowance, no car allowance, nothing. Considering the housing problems in AD we won't get anything under 200,000 aed per year! I can't see that an offer this low can be right? 

We do have some debt to pay off at home but even if we didn't, the offer would still be really tight, not leaving us enough a year for contingencies.

Any advice greatfully received


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## flossie (Jun 9, 2008)

That's exactly right. You divide that 10,000 by 12 to give you your monthly fee.

I don't know what electrical engineers traditionally earn in Dubai so can't say if it's a good offer for his field or not. I can say that personally, I would find that very hard to live off, pay rent, school fees and save. Personally, I wouldn't move for that. In fact I would ask for at least that, plus housing allowance, plus school fees. But it depends on industry. Maybe someone in the same field as your husband would have more idea. I'm sorry, you must be so disappointed.


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## flossie (Jun 9, 2008)

Just realised you're looking at Abu Dhabi. I'm pretty sure their housing fee is the same, though.


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## hopeful (Jul 29, 2008)

Thanks flossie,

I'm really annoyed me, disappointed too but more pee'd off. Just because they know the state of the rental market in AD and to offer something like that is more a waste of time than anything else. We would move out there if at the end of the year we were equal, with just enough left over to know if anything went wrong would have enough in the pot to get by. 

This is only because we won't survive at home any longer if we don't! The hubby has gone back to the RA and asked for 40,000 aed per month. I suppose all we can do is wait but I'm not hopeful, not anymore! I just can't believe they've wasted our time like this!!


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## Shinjuku (Jul 12, 2008)

Hopeful,
Sorry to hear its not going as smoothly as you hoped.

I'm waiting for an offer too, but have a feeling that i'm going to be severely disappointed. (I'm a senior civil engineer applying for an Asst.PM role. The agency initially quoted the salary band for such a role was 23-25k AED, which i just laughed at , although he quickly suggested he could likely negotiate higher).

Mind if i ask how many years experience your husband has?


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## hopeful (Jul 29, 2008)

10 years post apprenticeship, so I was a little shocked they were offering him this figure based on his experience, the fact that he has a family to bring over with him and also added to this that the rents in AD are sky high at the moment. If we got this offer in dubai it might be doable as the rentals are lower there at the moment, but we'd still have expected 35k per month.

Oh well, I guess he will have to wait and see, but its not a complete disappointment because I wanted to be in dubai, and now it means he'll be applying for more jobs based in dubai


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## Maz25 (Jul 6, 2008)

Shinjuku said:


> Hopeful,
> Sorry to hear its not going as smoothly as you hoped.
> 
> I'm waiting for an offer too, but have a feeling that i'm going to be severely disappointed. (I'm a senior civil engineer applying for an Asst.PM role. The agency initially quoted the salary band for such a role was 23-25k AED, which i just laughed at , although he quickly suggested he could likely negotiate higher).
> ...



23 -25k for a senior civil engineer!! The agency is pulling your leg. I'm a QS with just over 1 year experience and that it what I got quoted!!! My offer is for more than that, with excellent career prospect! I would think that if you are a senior guy then you are definitely more experienced that I am! I know that QSs are generally very well paid but still, you need to negotiate for something more!!!! Might be worthwhile to apply for a position that will put you a couple of steps higher up the ladder. Not sure which country you are from but in the UK, an assistant will in all likelihood be a graduate straight out of uni!


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## Maz25 (Jul 6, 2008)

hopeful said:


> 10 years post apprenticeship, so I was a little shocked they were offering him this figure based on his experience, the fact that he has a family to bring over with him and also added to this that the rents in AD are sky high at the moment. If we got this offer in dubai it might be doable as the rentals are lower there at the moment, but we'd still have expected 35k per month.
> 
> Oh well, I guess he will have to wait and see, but its not a complete disappointment because I wanted to be in dubai, and now it means he'll be applying for more jobs based in dubai


I know that you must be very disappointed and sincerely hope that things work out but, do you think it is wise to move out here knowing full well that this offer will mean that you will struggle. I'm not an expert in your husband's field but owing to the fact that he is very experienced, I would try and apply for more jobs, with the hope of landing something better. It might be better than coming to Dubai and struggling, considering as it is so difficult to change jobs.

I hope that things work and that you will soon be able to make your move to Dubai.


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## Shinjuku (Jul 12, 2008)

Maz25 said:


> 23 -25k for a senior civil engineer!! The agency is pulling your leg. I'm a QS with just over 1 year experience and that it what I got quoted!!! My offer is for more than that, with excellent career prospect! I would think that if you are a senior guy then you are definitely more experienced that I am! I know that QSs are generally very well paid but still, you need to negotiate for something more!!!! Might be worthwhile to apply for a position that will put you a couple of steps higher up the ladder. Not sure which country you are from but in the UK, an assistant will in all likelihood be a graduate straight out of uni!


I thought he was, which was why i think when he realised i'd done some prior research, he immediately suggested he will be able to negotiate higher (like he's doing me a favour ) Was a bit disappointed with them though, as they're the most widely recommended construction recruitment agency in this forum.

From the UK as well, so am aware that Asst Engineers are basically Grad+ 1-2yrs. However the APM role called for 5+ yrs experience. From what i gather from previous threads, this should firmly put me in the 30k+ bracket, so won't be settling for anything less.
Maybe they can't afford to pay more for engineers, after all their QSs wage bills


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## hopeful (Jul 29, 2008)

Maz25 said:


> I know that you must be very disappointed and sincerely hope that things work out but, do you think it is wise to move out here knowing full well that this offer will mean that you will struggle. I'm not an expert in your husband's field but owing to the fact that he is very experienced, I would try and apply for more jobs, with the hope of landing something better. It might be better than coming to Dubai and struggling, considering as it is so difficult to change jobs.
> 
> I hope that things work and that you will soon be able to make your move to Dubai.


Don't worry, we won't be moving on this offer, its not doable in AD at all! The crazy thing is its with such a reputable company. Hubby says his QS section at work are all weird....least you get paid more to make up for it hey lol


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## Maz25 (Jul 6, 2008)

hopeful said:


> Don't worry, we won't be moving on this offer, its not doable in AD at all! The crazy thing is its with such a reputable company. Hubby says his QS section at work are all weird....least you get paid more to make up for it hey lol


Weird!! Ha ha! Considering that we are always referred to as brick counters, that might explain it!!!!


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## Maz25 (Jul 6, 2008)

Shinjuku said:


> Maybe they can't afford to pay more for engineers, after all their QSs wage bills


 Ha Ha!! You love us really!!!! Who else will count all those bricks for you!!!

But seriously though, most agents in the UAE get about 25% of your package in commission, hence he won't be doing you a favour - more like doing his bank balance a favour, right after you've done him a favour by getting a highly paid job! Which agency are you dealing with? I dealt with Hill McGlynn and I was thoroughly satisfied with the service. To say the least, they were absolutely brilliant and efficient! I found UK based recruitment agents to be a waste of time. They are full of promises and nothing much else!

Have you tried the big UK contractors? I know that Mace, Laing O' Rourke and Balfour Beatty are out there, so if you haven't contacted them already, it might be worthwhile seeing what they have available in Dubai!


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## hopeful (Jul 29, 2008)

Not sure what agency he's used, think he sent Cv's to a couple. He has had dealings with Hill Mcglynn in the UK, so I told him to send his CV to them last night, don't know if he did or not!

He sent a few applications last night direct to companies.....cutting out the middle is definitely wise, as you say the RA is getting a huge cut of your salary! I know hubby is really keen to get in with first company though, done some of the biggest projects in Dubai. The big boss has confirmed receipt of hubbies email asking for them to increase the offer and said he will consider the content and reply when he's back from the UK, sunday, so thats better than nothing.

Thanks for the advice, have fun counting bricks today lol


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## Mocha (Jul 26, 2008)

*Recruitment Agency*

Hello, I too used Hill McGlynn to search for jobs in Dubai and found them reasonable. I personally would prefer to cut the middle man out but found that it a little difficult, especially when I am not in Dubai! Good luck anyway!

Also, be mindful that when agents quote you a salary package (for my case at least), it usually includes basic pay (60%), housing (25%) and car/sundry allowance(15%) - just make sure you check with them the details of the salary package.


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## Shinjuku (Jul 12, 2008)

I'm using HillMG as well. They've been pretty average so far, although i'll mark them down for even trying to sell me the idea that AED25k is a good deal.
May have a look at a few contractors, but have found before that switching from consulting to contracting is not straight-forward.

Hopeful,
Like others have said, I also suggest going through a UAE-based agency where possible. I sent couple of CVs out to UK ones, and have not even had a courtesy reply from any of them.


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## Shinjuku (Jul 12, 2008)

Mocha said:


> Also, be mindful that when agents quote you a salary package (for my case at least), it usually includes basic pay (60%), housing (25%) and car/sundry allowance(15%) - just make sure you check with them the details of the salary package.


Mocha,
Can you explain what does car/sundry consist of?
This question has been nagging me, coz i was told the split will be: pay 50%, housing 25%, car 25%.
But i can't work out how the car allowance can be as high as housing, when housing is going to be the single highest expenditure.


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## flossie (Jun 9, 2008)

Employers can divvie up the package anyway they like. So it doesn't really matter how much what is as you can just spend it how you like. They give you allowances because your end of service gratuity is worked out on your base salary. Therefore, the more allowances they give you, the less your base salary, the less you get paid when your service ends. I think it harks back to the old days when most people had housing supplied, not an allowance. A bit like DH's company does with our school fees. Ours just get paid which means that some colleagues packages are worth less (they have one or no children) and some are worth more (they have two children in high school). Sadly, not many company just provide housing since the rents shot up sky high.

I agree with your sums. I don't think it's possible to live on that in AD. But at least you checked it out before coming. Your DH's boss may not get paid more than that, but he may be in housing that's been available to the company for a number of years, in which case, he doesn't need more than that.


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## Wilfie (Jul 24, 2008)

Hi Hopeful,

I think these guys are having a laugh. The agency I was with told me that the days of housing and car allowances were over. However, when I went to the interview I raised the question and found that all they are doing in trying to paint a bleak picture so that they look good when you get offered something more and you are then more likely to accept it. 

Remember it is tax free so your hubbies offer will be compared to what you would expect to recieve after tax in your home country. You need to sit down and work out how much you need to live in AD and the negotiate on that. Don't get booged down with allowances, just work out the overall figure. If you can get this paid as a basic then it will mean your gratuity will be higher as you don't get it on allowances. If they don't budge then you should look elsewhere. There are lots of good agencies and even more opportunities.

It is easy to get tempted by the first offer as you get blinded by the wider opportunity and worried that you might miss out. If your husband is good at what he does there will always be an opportunity.

Good Luck!


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## Wilfie (Jul 24, 2008)

Have a word with this guy:

[email protected]

He is based in Dubai nut looks after AD as well. He got me placed with Carillion and I know he is doing a lot of work with Leightons as well.

Good luck!



hopeful said:


> Not sure what agency he's used, think he sent Cv's to a couple. He has had dealings with Hill Mcglynn in the UK, so I told him to send his CV to them last night, don't know if he did or not!
> 
> He sent a few applications last night direct to companies.....cutting out the middle is definitely wise, as you say the RA is getting a huge cut of your salary! I know hubby is really keen to get in with first company though, done some of the biggest projects in Dubai. The big boss has confirmed receipt of hubbies email asking for them to increase the offer and said he will consider the content and reply when he's back from the UK, sunday, so thats better than nothing.
> 
> Thanks for the advice, have fun counting bricks today lol


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## hopeful (Jul 29, 2008)

He is very very good at his job, but I think thats exactly what he does wilfie, gets blinded by the first offer, I know he really wants to work for this company and I do agree there profile is a good one, but if they can't offer close to what we have asked for then there is no point persuing it.

We haven't asked for allowances etc, just a lump sum that we know we would be able to live on. I am a pretty thorough person me and I devised a budget on excel with several different rent scenarios and salary amounts so that we we were ready when the offer came in. So glad I did it as all we had to do was look at the figures to see what they were offering wasn't viable.

Flossie I totally agree that what percentage of the final sum is atributed to what makes absolutely no difference really, not to us anyway as we know we can't live on the figure offered in the first place. As for the boss, I don't think he has a family, he's a single man so what he's earning can't really be compared to what my hubby needs to earn to support a family.

Anyway, only time will tell as the big boss is back Sunday. Finger crossed.


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## hopeful (Jul 29, 2008)

Wilfie said:


> Have a word with this guy:
> 
> [email protected]
> 
> ...


Thanks wilfie I'll pass on the info


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## Maz25 (Jul 6, 2008)

Shinjuku said:


> I'm using HillMG as well. They've been pretty average so far, although i'll mark them down for even trying to sell me the idea that AED25k is a good deal.
> May have a look at a few contractors, but have found before that switching from consulting to contracting is not straight-forward.
> 
> Hopeful,
> Like others have said, I also suggest going through a UAE-based agency where possible. I sent couple of CVs out to UK ones, and have not even had a courtesy reply from any of them.


If you have built up your career in consultancy, I would not recommend switching to contractors. Consultants have one way of doing things which can differ from the way that contractors deal with things. I work on the consultancy side and the contractors just see us as being downright difficult, whilst I call then shady! We can't ever seem to agree on anything but being the PQS, I always get my way in any case.

I intend to build up my career on hard work when I get to Dubai and whilst I do not mind a few hours of overtime here and there, I certainly mind working 6 days a week as standard!!! Contractors in Dubai work incredibly long hours and if you are used to working for a consultant, that might take some getting used to, especially if you then have to reckon with their way of doing things as well. Double culture shock!!! Triple culture shock if you take into consideration that you will be living in a Muslim country!!!

I still say that 25K AED is very low for an experienced person! I doubled my salary when I accepted my offer (could have got more if I had liked the other company that made an offer!) and whilst this is more difficult the higher up the ladder you are, you should certainly be aiming for 1.5x what you are earning in the UK.

You are right though about UK recruitment agencies. I received the same treatment. Some even promised interviews! I'm still waiting for that email with the interview details! That was back in June so I reckon that it should turn up by Xmas 2012!!!

As frustrating as things get, do not give up. I'm sure that you will find a job real soon and the offer that you deserve!

Best of luck for the future!!


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## Mocha (Jul 26, 2008)

Shinjuku said:


> Mocha,
> Can you explain what does car/sundry consist of?
> This question has been nagging me, coz i was told the split will be: pay 50%, housing 25%, car 25%.
> But i can't work out how the car allowance can be as high as housing, when housing is going to be the single highest expenditure.


When I got the offer, it was divided between basic pay, housing and sundry. I went back and asked for car allowance, they told me that car use is included in sundry. I figured out that your employer can call it whatever they like. Usually, they would just give you a lump sum payment so you can just spend as much or as little on car / housing. Companies would usually try and get away with a lower % of pay and higher % of allowance because your gratuity, and perhaps bouns if you have it, would be based on your basic pay instead of the whole monthly salary.


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## Shinjuku (Jul 12, 2008)

Maz25 said:


> If you have built up your career in consultancy, I would not recommend switching to contractors. Consultants have one way of doing things which can differ from the way that contractors deal with things. I work on the consultancy side and the contractors just see us as being downright difficult, whilst I call then shady! We can't ever seem to agree on anything but being the PQS, I always get my way in any case.
> 
> I intend to build up my career on hard work when I get to Dubai and whilst I do not mind a few hours of overtime here and there, I certainly mind working 6 days a week as standard!!! Contractors in Dubai work incredibly long hours and if you are used to working for a consultant, that might take some getting used to, especially if you then have to reckon with their way of doing things as well. Double culture shock!!! Triple culture shock if you take into consideration that you will be living in a Muslim country!!!


Contractors vs consultants...that's a topic for the pub....
Be careful with all the work. I believe 6 day weeks can be quite common in Dubai, particularly for people in our industry.
A QS contractor i know in UK has 50hrs/wk as standard in his contract, which was no wonder he's paid 20% more than us consultants.

Have you asked what the work ethic is like in Dubai? UK is very relaxed compared to many Asian countries i know, where long overtime (with no pay) is the norm. Hopefully its not as intense in the Middle East.


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## Maz25 (Jul 6, 2008)

Shinjuku said:


> Contractors vs consultants...that's a topic for the pub....
> Be careful with all the work. I believe 6 day weeks can be quite common in Dubai, particularly for people in our industry.
> A QS contractor i know in UK has 50hrs/wk as standard in his contract, which was no wonder he's paid 20% more than us consultants.
> 
> Have you asked what the work ethic is like in Dubai? UK is very relaxed compared to many Asian countries i know, where long overtime (with no pay) is the norm. Hopefully its not as intense in the Middle East.


I will be working for a British guy who set up his business in Dubai. My contract is also for 40hrs a week so I shouldn't really have any probs adapting. I'm used to doing free overtime in any case!


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