# Rental agency fee



## angil (Sep 24, 2012)

I have just received this from the agent we rent our apt through;

"This next 20th of April 2014 your contract agreement date will expire. Please if you wish to renew the contract agreement, send us your confirmation. The agency fee: half month rent 500€"

As we paid €500 initially to the agent at the start of the contract we were a little 'surprised' to see they were asking for another €500 to renew the thing!

Would this be the norm' here?


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

angil said:


> I have just received this from the agent we rent our apt through;
> 
> "This next 20th of April 2014 your contract agreement date will expire. Please if you wish to renew the contract agreement, send us your confirmation. The agency fee: half month rent 500€"
> 
> ...


a lot of agents will try this one 

assuming you have a 'vivienda' contract it won't need renewing - so no need to pay another fee

'renewal' is automatic & no new contract is required

& it's automatic for 5 years, under the laws in place in April 2013


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## angil (Sep 24, 2012)

xabiachica said:


> a lot of agents will try this one
> 
> assuming you have a 'vivienda' contract it won't need renewing - so no need to pay another fee
> 
> ...



Thanks so much for this. Looked vivienda straight up & it is described as a strong rental contract automatically renewed. I had never heard of it.

The word 'vivienda' seems to feature heavily in our contract! The contract is dated the 21st May 2013. 

So if I just tell the agent that the contract should be automatically renewed under Spanish law and leave it at that?!

I can't believe they had the nerve to ask!


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

angil said:


> Thanks so much for this. Looked vivienda straight up & it is described as a strong rental contract automatically renewed. I had never heard of it.
> 
> The word 'vivienda' seems to feature heavily in our contract! The contract is dated the 21st May.
> 
> ...


that's exactly what you should do - just stick to your guns


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## angil (Sep 24, 2012)

I always do!

Thanks again.


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## Leper (May 12, 2010)

If you pay the 'Agency Fee' you will be an automatic entrant for the Most Gullible Person of the Year Award. 

Not paying at worst, will lead to you vacating the property. The owner of the accommodation will probably sack the agent then as no income is coming. You might be better off contacting the owner directly and now that agents fees are definitely gone you probably will get cheaper rental.

It is a Renters Paradise in Spain at the moment and will remain so for years to come.

Use your head, not your wallet. I sat behind an elderly Brit couple last summer in an Estate Agency. They were renting for the forthcoming winter months. They were screwed bareback by the agency with advance fees for this and more fees for that. I waited for them in a restaurant outside the Estate Agent and when they stopped in for a cup of coffee, I tried to explain to them the much cheaper options available. Of course, Mr Brainless Elderly UK dismissed me as a ranting Paddy. Well, I tried my best and you know what we say 'A Fool and his Money are soon parted.'


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

xabiachica said:


> a lot of agents will try this one
> 
> assuming you have a 'vivienda' contract it won't need renewing - so no need to pay another fee
> 
> ...


... I think it's only 3 years now.


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## angil (Sep 24, 2012)

Okey dokey

We are used to paying agency fees, as a one off. That's the norm for us. Gullible, not really we don't mind paying over the odds a little if its what we want. We lived in Korea for 14 years doing just that. But we were happy, living as a family so it was worth it. Most families in our position moved around but we didn't think that was fair on the kids. Besides, with exception of my kids crap International Schools we never felt exploited (unlike here!).

(Although I did foolishly believe an expat relocation agent who made the area we live in now seem like the ideal location! & gave us duff info re; residency.)

Ours is a temporary relocation because of employment. The proximity of transport to school & amenities was important. For that we chose this apt which we know is way too expensive. I am assuming the agents know it too! I wasn't expecting to be harassed for more money. Is it a cultural thing? Bleeding the milk cow dry?? 

Whether you think I was a bit thick to have paid the agency fee in the first place is by the by. I did, I also paid €1000 deposit + €1000 in advance.

My question now is on the legality of the agent who is still pursuing a further €500 (in cash now!) & they also want us to go to their office to pay €1000 cash for the first months rent of the 'new' contract.

I ain't doing that!! Because, as far as I can understand, under Spanish tenancy law I don't have to? 

Is that correct? I have told the agent I will pay this months rent into usual bank account.

Xabiachica gave me a very helpful answer. I am just asking again as I was't expecting the agent to come back to me and now demand I go to their office with €1500 in cash!

(As for renters market! Well I emailed loads of agents, got a few "I'll get back to you replies", never did. Got a few really dodgy looking apts to look at but declined. & 2 agents actually showed us 2 apts "we don't have photos yet". Good grief! horrible, old, smelly & miles out in the sticks. I don't drive! & that was that! €1000 being our budget! & yes I have seen a few for rent signs in windows but not masses. My kids don't want to move. I've had the decorators in. It is our home, for another 12 months anyway. I am assuming we have the law on our side and are entitled to stay as long as we pay the rent?).


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## angil (Sep 24, 2012)

snikpoh said:


> ... I think it's only 3 years now.


Not a problem we only need another 12 months (1 year!).


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

The agent is trying it on and you are paying fartoo much for your apartment. We rent a large villa with huge gardens and pool in an expensive area for €1000 a month, knocked down gradually by us from the €2300 we originally paid five years ago.
Tenants have legal protection here and this rogue agent is banking on the fact that you are unaware of this.
Do not pay the last month's rent....you will surely not see your deposit again.


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## angil (Sep 24, 2012)

mrypg9 said:


> The agent is trying it on and you are paying fartoo much for your apartment. We rent a large villa with huge gardens and pool in an expensive area for €1000 a month, knocked down gradually by us from the €2300 we originally paid five years ago.
> Tenants have legal protection here and this rogue agent is banking on the fact that you are unaware of this.
> Do not pay the last month's rent....you will surely not see your deposit again.


Thanks for the confirmation of my rights as a tenant.

I know we are paying far too much. Hubby is now adamant we should move. Easy for him to say! 
The kids can't be bothered. Daughter is in the middle studying AS level exams around the corner. Don't want her hassled.
We just thought we'd suck it up pay wayyyyyyyyyy too much for another year and move on. 
Didn't bank on this agent coming the game again!
Mind you the woman I have had dealings with comes across as a bit unhinged! & they are a well known legit agency!

I have rented overseas since 1999 never experienced anything like this!


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

angil said:


> Thanks for the confirmation of my rights as a tenant.
> 
> I know we are paying far too much. Hubby is now adamant we should move. Easy for him to say!
> The kids can't be bothered. Daughter is in the middle studying AS level exams around the corner. Don't want her hassled.
> ...


When we first moved to Spain we lived in my son's house whilst looking for our own place. OH moaned about lack of free runnung space for our dog so we moved too hastily into a quite big garden apartment in a very English community. Neither of us had lived in an apartment before, the neighbours although nice enough weren't the sort we had much in common with and we both grew very quickly to hate it. 
The agent ripped us off big time. She charged us €200 ' finders fee', €200 for moving the furniture out and charged us €500 for allegedly putting up a Sky dish which we didn't need as there was a communal one which we hadn't been aware of as we viewed the place in the dark. 
After a couple more attempts at extortion- trying to charge us excessive amounts for repairs which were the landlord's responsibility we decided to move. We knew we wouldn't get the deposit back- €1800- so we stayed two months rent free. The agent threatened us with the police, we laughed and told her to **** off. 
The rear window of our LandRover was smashed, mysteriously.... I bear grudges and five years later am still waiting for the time I find her 4x4 left unattended in a quiet place. 
We now have a super landlord, an Austrian brothel owner ex- scrap metal dealer who glories in the name of Adelbert Haunschmied. Apart from a habit of turning up once or twice a year with a different woman not his wife , something which annoys Sandra who is a bit of a Scottish prude, he is really great and I don't give a toss about his women, in fact I make fun of it with him which he seems to enjoy. He takes me out to lunch and is always inviting meto visit him. He is a bit of a mummy's boy and I think hesees me as a mother figure.

Life is interesting, isn't it.....


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

mrypg9 said:


> The agent is trying it on and you are paying fartoo much for your apartment. We rent a large villa with huge gardens and pool in an expensive area for €1000 a month, knocked down gradually by us from the €2300 we originally paid five years ago.
> Tenants have legal protection here and this rogue agent is banking on the fact that you are unaware of this.
> Do not pay the last month's rent....you will surely not see your deposit again.


Whilst we mustn't condone doing anything illegal on this forum (and it is illegal to use the deposit as the last months rent), I have to say it is quite normal when 'things go wrong'.

Why not take a look around in the neighbourhood for rental signs in the windows. You might find a good apartment close by without any of the existing problems and for a lot less money.


DO NOT pay the agent anything. Simply continue paying the rent to the owner in the usual way (I assume you are paying the owner and not the agent?).


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## angil (Sep 24, 2012)

mrypg9 said:


> When we first moved to Spain we lived in my son's house whilst looking for our own place. OH moaned about lack of free runnung space for our dog so we moved too hastily into a quite big garden apartment in a very English community. Neither of us had lived in an apartment before, the neighbours although nice enough weren't the sort we had much in common with and we both grew very quickly to hate it.
> The agent ripped us off big time. She charged us €200 ' finders fee', €200 for moving the furniture out and charged us €500 for allegedly putting up a Sky dish which we didn't need as there was a communal one which we hadn't been aware of as we viewed the place in the dark.
> After a couple more attempts at extortion- trying to charge us excessive amounts for repairs which were the landlord's responsibility we decided to move. We knew we wouldn't get the deposit back- €1800- so we stayed two months rent free. The agent threatened us with the police, we laughed and told her to **** off.
> The rear window of our LandRover was smashed, mysteriously.... I bear grudges and five years later am still waiting for the time I find her 4x4 left unattended in a quiet place.
> ...


One of my landlords in Korea was Gangster Jang! Used car dealer and a lot more! Used to 'run' the town before ill health and a younger brigade took over. Fab landlord, would do anything for us and gave my kids pocket money on rent day! We miss Gangster Jang and his lovely little agent Mr Choi! When we left the place it was in such good condition he gave my husband an envelope to give to me! It was full of money! I am assuming it is was he would usually pay a cleaner / decorator etc after a tenant moved out.
I guess you can't judge an Austrian brothel owner landlord by his cover any more than you can a Korean retired gangster!
Its apparently the 'legitimate' ones you have to watch out for!
I am paying nothing to the agent & if my kids want to stay in this apt it will take more than a slightly unhinged Spanish woman and her rental agency to shift me (if the law is on my side!).


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

I have just read through from the beginning. Nowhere does it seem to say what is the nationality of this agent. OK, I gather that the contract is in Spanish but that doesn't necessarily tell me that the agent is Spanish. It sounds like one of the Brit agents who thinks he can rip off those who don't speak Spanish (esp. other Brits). If it is another Brit, then you know how to tell him to get lost in his own language - if he /she has his/her own business, ask for the "hoja de reclamaciones" (that's the Complaint Book) they must, by law have one. It invariably works wonders.


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## angil (Sep 24, 2012)

Spanish company, as far as I know. The woman I am dealing with is of Persian heritage but most certainly Spanish. Had a funny name so I googled it. I have friends from all over the Middle East in case this is seen as some sort of racial thing! I didn't mention whether it was a Spanish or Brit company in my opening post as I didn't think it mattered.
Thanks for the tip about the complaints book that will go into my next email to them.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

snikpoh said:


> ... I think it's only 3 years now.


For contracts June last year onwards. Not the OP's which comes under the previous rules


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## angil (Sep 24, 2012)

I went on a little 'fishing' expedition;

this is the answer I got from another Spanish owned rental agency.

"The deposit required depends on the owners requirements, there is no initial agency fee however some properties in some areas you will have to pay half with the owner but only on some properties, _agency fee for renewing 11 month contract is normally half a month._"

There it is again; for renewing an 11 month contract this agency would charge half a months rent (the same as mine).

So anyone got any idea where this is coming from?

From everything I have read and have been told here the vivienda contract should be renewed automatically (in theory leaving the agent out of the loop).

So for those who have continued living in their apt after the initial contract period expired what did you do? Did you sign a continuation? Or is it a given that unless you as the tenant state otherwise you will remain in the property paying rent for the 3 - 5 year limit.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

angil said:


> I went on a little 'fishing' expedition;
> 
> this is the answer I got from another Spanish owned rental agency.
> 
> ...



years & years ago an 11 month contract offered the owners some security, because if a tenant stayed less than a year they had no proper tenancy rights - YEARS AGO

the law has changed several times since then, yet lots of owners & agents still think that it's in force, or try to convince tenants that it is

the last change was last June 2013, which is after your contract was signed, so doesn't apply to you

however - before that date, whatever dates/time period the contract stated, unless it _specifically _stated that it was outside the LAU, if the property is your home or main residence in Spain, then it is covered by the LAU

that meant that once the initial period of the contract expired,( & arguably from the day you moved in - this was tested in court & found in favour of the tenant) if no notice had been given by either party to terminate, then it was _automatically renewable for 5 years_

no new contract need ever be signed, so no new 'contract fee' would be required


I've been renting here in Spain for 10.5 years, & have never signed a new contract after the initial period - they just roll over

there's a link to the LAU in the FAQs sticky thread


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## angil (Sep 24, 2012)

Again a huge thank you. There is nothing like getting info from someone who has lived here for a notable amount of time, and has the experience that goes along with it. 
Everything I have read backs up exactly what you are saying. I will continue to stand my ground. But I have a feeling (I know!) the agents aren't going to back down!!


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

angil said:


> Again a huge thank you. There is nothing like getting info from someone who has lived here for a notable amount of time, and has the experience that goes along with it.
> Everything I have read backs up exactly what you are saying. I will continue to stand my ground. But I have a feeling (I know!) the agents aren't going to back down!!


depending on how tough you want to be - just refuse to sign a new contract on the grounds that legally you don't have to

& ask for their complaints book


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

angil said:


> Again a huge thank you. There is nothing like getting info from someone who has lived here for a notable amount of time, and has the experience that goes along with it.
> Everything I have read backs up exactly what you are saying. I will continue to stand my ground. But I have a feeling (I know!) the agents aren't going to back down!!


What's the worst the agent can do?

Are you paying the rent directly to the owner or to the agent?


All-in-all, it may be time to start looking for somewhere else to live.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

snikpoh said:


> What's the worst the agent can do?
> 
> Are you paying the rent directly to the owner or to the agent?
> 
> ...


Well, that's what we did and we are now very settled and very happy. But we moved because we hated the place and wante to. Angil doesn't want to. 
She has rights and she is in the right.
When we left our piso we bent the law, I'll freely admit that. We left the place cleaner than when we found it but as we had been fleeced of almost €1000 euros we left water and electricity bills which were in the agent's name, for some reason, unpaid, after inviting a friend who lived on the campo to fill vast numbers of huge containers of water to take away on a truck for his cistern as well as taking daily hot baths and showers at the pis
I was a scrupulously fair landlord when we had rental properties and I'm too old to be willing to let some cheap shyster walk over me.
I'm not suggesting angil should resort to such measures but she seems like me to be the kind of person who resents being taken for a mug.
Stand yer ground, gal!


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## angil (Sep 24, 2012)

mrypg9 said:


> Well, that's what we did and we are now very settled and very happy. But we moved because we hated the place and wante to. Angil doesn't want to.
> She has rights and she is in the right.
> When we left our piso we bent the law, I'll freely admit that. We left the place cleaner than when we found it but as we had been fleeced of almost €1000 euros we left water and electricity bills which were in the agent's name, for some reason, unpaid, after inviting a friend who lived on the campo to fill vast numbers of huge containers of water to take away on a truck for his cistern as well as taking daily hot baths and showers at the piso.
> I was a scrupulously fair landlord when we had rental properties and I'm too old to be willing to let some cheao shyster walk over me.
> ...


Thank you for your support. Very much appreciated! x


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

angil said:


> Thank you for your support. Very much appreciated! x


You cannot be evicted. It is a criminal offence to harass you and to cut off utilities.
These rogue rental agencies cause much unhappiness and need to be taught a lesson.

If we lived nearer to one another I would willingly join you to descend on this cheapo con- merchant and lecture her loudly and publicly on Spanish rental law of which she pretends to be ignorant


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## angil (Sep 24, 2012)

mrypg9 said:


> You cannot be evicted. It is a criminal offence to harass you and to cut off utilities.
> These rogue rental agencies cause much unhappiness and need to be taught a lesson.
> 
> If we lived nearer to one another I would willingly join you to descend on this cheapo con- merchant and lecture her loudly and publicly on Spanish rental law of which she pretends to be ignorant


You don't live that far away! lol
My sister is currently battling to prevent a development of new houses in her rural village! I have memories of my mother standing at the school gates with a petition to have the ridiculous ITA system of reading and writing abolished!
I think its in my blood! Plus I hate bullies & I always side with the 'little guy'. This time I am feeling like the little guy so again very much appreciate some supportive 'fighting' words! 'Unfortunately' me lovely Libran, veggie hubby doesn't have the same attitude. As he works away is concerned about leaving us here. If there ever needed to be proof that opposites attract we are it!!!


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