# Spanish electrics!



## Spangles 72 (Oct 30, 2013)

Hi all, can I ask a bit of advice please......we are renovating our campo house in Malaga area and the electrics are a bit of a mess. I am considering taking the whole lot out and starting again with a ring main system as we use in the UK. At the moment we seem to have a radial system which causes a power drain if you have too many things switched on at once. Is there any reason why its done like this, or why I shouldn't be putting in a ring main system? Thought it best to ask before I start ripping things out! Thanks in advance


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

If you install a ring main you will not get the necesary boletín electrico in order to use the supply.


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## Spangles 72 (Oct 30, 2013)

Overandout said:


> If you install a ring main you will not get the necesary boletín electrico in order to use the supply.


Hi, thanks for your reply, what is a "boletin electrico"??!


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

Spangles 72 said:


> Hi, thanks for your reply, what is a "boletin electrico"??!


It is a certificate which has to be issued by a qualified electrician (and not all Spanish electricians can issue boletines) which confirms that the electrical installation in a property complies with current regulations and it is needed in order for the supply company either to increase the amount of potencia you have or to issue a new supply contract. If you are experiencing a problem with the supply tripping if too many things are switched on at once then it sounds as though you will need to ask to increase the potencia. Standing charges are based on how much potencia you are contracted for so an increase will put your bills up.


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## Spangles 72 (Oct 30, 2013)

Lynn R said:


> It is a certificate which has to be issued by a qualified electrician (and not all Spanish electricians can issue boletines) which confirms that the electrical installation in a property complies with current regulations and it is needed in order for the supply company either to increase the amount of potencia you have or to issue a new supply contract. If you are experiencing a problem with the supply tripping if too many things are switched on at once then it sounds as though you will need to ask to increase the potencia. Standing charges are based on how much potencia you are contracted for so an increase will put your bills up.


Thanks for that Lynn R, thats very helpful. We only have 3.3 potencia coming in so that could be the problem. So I think I shall avoid doing a ring main, I will keep it on the current system and then get an electrician out when I have finished the work on the electrics (I am adding sockets and doing a fair bit of rewiring) and hopefully get the boletin to be able to increase the potencia...sounds like a plan


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

Spangles 72 said:


> Hi all, can I ask a bit of advice please......we are renovating our campo house in Malaga area and the electrics are a bit of a mess. I am considering taking the whole lot out and starting again with a ring main system as we use in the UK. At the moment we seem to have a radial system which causes a power drain if you have too many things switched on at once. Is there any reason why its done like this, or why I shouldn't be putting in a ring main system? Thought it best to ask before I start ripping things out! Thanks in advance



OK. Ring mains are useless! 

They were introduced in UK just around the second world war for the sole purpose of saving copper! They serve no other purpose.

Radial systems are acknowledged as the best and most sensible to use. Power drain should not be an issue if you have balanced the loads on the 'fuses'. Remember, if you have a/c, an electric oven or a hob then these need to be on separate 30amp circuits anyway.


Remember the boletion issue though. If you need to get it changed or if you want to increase the potencia then a new boletin will be required. If they find what you've done, it will have to be ripped out and done 'properly'.


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## Spangles 72 (Oct 30, 2013)

snikpoh said:


> OK. Ring mains are useless!
> 
> They were introduced in UK just around the second world war for the sole purpose of saving copper! They serve no other purpose.
> 
> ...


Hi,

Thanks for your reply. After the replies we have had on here we are going to stick with the existing radial system. Will it cause an issue with getting a boletin if we have stuck with the radial system but have done some re-wiring, added sockets and lights etc?


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

Spangles 72 said:


> Hi,
> 
> Thanks for your reply. After the replies we have had on here we are going to stick with the existing radial system. Will it cause an issue with getting a boletin if we have stuck with the radial system but have done some re-wiring, added sockets and lights etc?


To get a boletin, you have to have a qualified and certificated electrician (99.9% of the time Spanish) to come and check your installation. Therefore, he should not notice the addition of a couple of extra sockets if they have followed the existing scheme.

This boletin states the maximum potencia that your installation can carry (regardless of what you currently have) and that the installation is 'up to code'.


They will NOT issue a boletin if they find any issues. So .... get them to check it all over first and have them balance the circuits (so that the trips don't keep tripping). Then do the boletin using the same guy (in the same visit).


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Spangles 72 said:


> Hi,
> 
> Thanks for your reply. After the replies we have had on here we are going to stick with the existing radial system. Will it cause an issue with getting a boletin if we have stuck with the radial system but have done some re-wiring, added sockets and lights etc?


Depends on the inspecting electrician. Bear in mind that you haven't used his services so he hasn't installed the wiring/sockets/switches, etc, yet you expect him to sign it off and issue a certificate. It is rather like you do all the work on your car and expect a garage to issue an MoT. Taking everything apart to fully test and check that it is OK will possibly cost you as much as it would to have the leccy do the installations in the first place.

We had this place rewired before moving in (replumbed as well) although I set out on diagrams where I wanted switches, socket and whether lights were to be two way, etc. I don't recall at this remove that it was all that expensive (about 600€ I think and this house extends over five floors), especially when you deduct the cost of the fittings.


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

Spangles 72 said:


> Hi,
> 
> Thanks for your reply. After the replies we have had on here we are going to stick with the existing radial system. Will it cause an issue with getting a boletin if we have stuck with the radial system but have done some re-wiring, added sockets and lights etc?


It should not be a problem unless you (or someone else) do something silly.

We had an air con installed by El Corte Ingles in our flat. Then later added some extra halogen lights and double switches to operate them, then an "unqualified" electrician did some additional work when we had our kitchen installed by Ikea fitters (extra plug sockets and lighting).

Then we got a "qualtified" electrician in to sign it all off to increase potencia. No problem at all. All he wanted was to increase the section of the cables from the community meter room to our dist board.

He had no issue with the work done by El Corte Ingles, me, or my "local builder".


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## Spangles 72 (Oct 30, 2013)

Overandout said:


> It should not be a problem unless you (or someone else) do something silly.
> 
> We had an air con installed by El Corte Ingles in our flat. Then later added some extra halogen lights and double switches to operate them, then an "unqualified" electrician did some additional work when we had our kitchen installed by Ikea fitters (extra plug sockets and lighting).
> 
> ...


Thats good to know, thank you. My husband is not qualified but has worked with electrics in the UK for years, he re-wired our house in the UK and got it signed of by a qualified electrician no problems, fingers crossed it will be the same here. By the way, whats the normal potencia to a 2 bed detached house here, we currently have 3.3kw and thought that seemed a bit low...?


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

Spangles 72 said:


> Thats good to know, thank you. My husband is not qualified but has worked with electrics in the UK for years, he re-wired our house in the UK and got it signed of by a qualified electrician no problems, fingers crossed it will be the same here. By the way, whats the normal potencia to a 2 bed detached house here, we currently have 3.3kw and thought that seemed a bit low...?


If you know electrics, you know that no-one can answer that question except yourselves....

It depends on so many factors. Do you have an electric oven? electric hob? water heaters? central heating? air con? swimming pool? ..... 3.3 seems OK for a house with no pool, gas heating, one or maybe two split units , but nobody can answer without doing the calculations.....


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Spangles 72 said:


> Thats good to know, thank you. My husband is not qualified but has worked with electrics in the UK for years, he re-wired our house in the UK and got it signed of by a qualified electrician no problems, fingers crossed it will be the same here. By the way, whats the normal potencia to a 2 bed detached house here, we currently have 3.3kw and thought that seemed a bit low...?


That is the minimum _potencia_ and is the rate for those without income and, as such, the cost is limited by the government. If you can manage on it, fine, the next step up is more expensive.

Our house extends over five levels (floors) and we rarely pop the limiter these days, provided the m-i-l doesn't whack on a 3kw heater at full blast when other things are on. We use the 3.3kW level without problems. It is also a great way of helping the environment because you don't use more than you have to, so turn off lights when leaving rooms, use more efficient light sources, etc..


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

baldilocks said:


> That is the minimum _potencia_ and is the rate for those without income and, as such, the cost is limited by the government. If you can manage on it, fine, the next step up is more expensive.
> 
> Our house extends over five levels (floors) and we rarely pop the limiter these days, provided the m-i-l doesn't whack on a 3kw heater at full blast when other things are on. We use the 3.3kW level without problems. It is also a great way of helping the environment because you don't use more than you have to, so turn off lights when leaving rooms, use more efficient light sources, etc..


3.3 used to be the minimum, but the new system (ate least for the last 7 years) has allowed the potencia contratada to be much lower, around 1.8 I think.


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

Sorry, seems I was wrong. The minimum it seems is 1.15kW

Bájate la potencia


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

We have 3.45kw potencia which is enough for us as we use gas for cooking and almost all our heating, don't have aircon or a pool. We liaised with a Spanish electrician to get a boletin for a holiday home owned by friends of ours, and according to him the minimum potencia which would be required for a house with an electric oven and hob would be 5.5kw. I don't think the size of the house or number of bedrooms really matters, it's how many appliances you have, how many you'd be using at any one time and how much power each one consumes which is important.


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## Spangles 72 (Oct 30, 2013)

Thanks for the replies everyone. I realise the potencia requirement will be different for everyone, I just wondered if our 3.3kw was the average, and from your comments it seems it is probably enough for us, so we might not need the boletin to increase potencia after all. Maybe the power drops we get when we switch the kettle and oven on at the same time is nothing to do with potencia and it will improve once we sort out the electrics. We dont have air con or a pool (although we may have a pool soon if I am very very lucky!!). Thanks again for your help


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

Spangles 72 said:


> Thanks for the replies everyone. I realise the potencia requirement will be different for everyone, I just wondered if our 3.3kw was the average, and from your comments it seems it is probably enough for us, so we might not need the boletin to increase potencia after all. Maybe the power drops we get when we switch the kettle and oven on at the same time is nothing to do with potencia and it will improve once we sort out the electrics. We dont have air con or a pool (although we may have a pool soon if I am very very lucky!!). Thanks again for your help


If you've got an electric oven and you switch an electric kettle on at the same time, that will almost certainly exceed your 3.3kw potencia, so no wonder it trips. Like I said, 3.45kw is enough for us because we use gas for ALL our cooking.

Have a look at the power usage quoted for various types of appliances in the link Overandout posted.


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