# Bureaucracy Mexican Style



## chicois8 (Aug 8, 2009)

A friend of mine and fellow American told me for her to sell her house she needed an RFC number from SAT ( Hacienda / Mexican tax collector) to complete a sale. Having bought my home in 2007 with just an FMT and being in Mexico each Oct. through February I did not stay over 180 days per year and I never needed to become a temporary resident and never needed or wanted that visa status. Now I am being told I need a C.U.R.P. number from INM ( Mexican Immigration ) so here is what happened yesterday:

After visiting SAT offices in Puerto Vallarta I was sent to the INM office at city hall in Puerto Vallarta who told me that office was for C.U.R.P. numbers for nationals and I should go to another INM office by the cruise ship docks for foreigners. I went, explained my situation and was told I had to obtain a Temporary Resident Visa in able to get the C.U.R.P. number so I can get a RFC number. I have my home up for sale and I am trying to make sure that if my agent calls in say June or July and has a sale I have everything needed to complete a sale beforehand. I have only 3 weeks before I return to the USA for the summer . I do not have time to go to my local consulate in San Francisco to start the ball rolling for a TR Visa, and then turn around and come to Mexico to get an TR Visa and the numbers needed for a legal sale. 

I was under the impression that someone who bought real estate with an 
FMT / FMM could sell without having to go through the hassle of obtaining a TR Visa.
Any Ideas?


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## dwwhiteside (Apr 17, 2013)

The only advice I could offer you is to talk to a local attorney. If you're in Puerto Vallarta, then I would imagine that your property is in the restricted area; meaning that you do not technically own the property. It should be owned by a fideicomiso trust with you having sole rights to its use. So, if that is the case, you should also contact your fideicomiso to better understand how to sell.


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## RVGRINGO (May 16, 2007)

You need to consult a notario; not a simple abogado.


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## Howler (Apr 22, 2013)

RVGRINGO said:


> You need to consult a notario; not a simple abogado.


As in the case of my wife (a Mexican National), don't be surprised if you have to visit more than just one Notario Público... (just sayin'):juggle:


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## Raypinciotti (Jan 20, 2016)

It doesn't look good...... If you are buying or selling Real Estate after September 1, 2014, you will need the CURP and the RFC - The Yucatan Times


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## Meritorious-MasoMenos (Apr 17, 2014)

chicois8 said:


> A friend of mine and fellow American told me for her to sell her house she needed an RFC number from SAT ( Hacienda / Mexican tax collector) to complete a sale. Having bought my home in 2007 with just an FMT and being in Mexico each Oct. through February I did not stay over 180 days per year and I never needed to become a temporary resident and never needed or wanted that visa status. Now I am being told I need a C.U.R.P. number from INM ( Mexican Immigration ) so here is what happened yesterday:
> 
> After visiting SAT offices in Puerto Vallarta I was sent to the INM office at city hall in Puerto Vallarta who told me that office was for C.U.R.P. numbers for nationals and I should go to another INM office by the cruise ship docks for foreigners. I went, explained my situation and was told I had to obtain a Temporary Resident Visa in able to get the C.U.R.P. number so I can get a RFC number. I have my home up for sale and I am trying to make sure that if my agent calls in say June or July and has a sale I have everything needed to complete a sale beforehand. I have only 3 weeks before I return to the USA for the summer . I do not have time to go to my local consulate in San Francisco to start the ball rolling for a TR Visa, and then turn around and come to Mexico to get an TR Visa and the numbers needed for a legal sale.
> 
> ...


Well, you can always give up three weeks in paradise and return to the U.S. immediately, make your appointment with the Mexican consulate (It seems SF is closest for you). You can then return to Mexico with the residente temporal visa, then immediately go to your local immigration office and apply for the residents temporal or permanent card.

To me, it was an annoying process with multiple forms to fill out once in Mexico. Most have to be filled in by computer, so that the immigration people sent me out three times with directions how to get the correct form off the computer at a local business/internet store. Some smart foreigners hired Mexicans who I saw at every visit who can help you get all the forms straight the first time, and they always seem to get their clients to the head of the line, and who knows, maybe they can get the card itself much faster.

Once all was done, it took about a month I think for the card to be ready. They do send all notifications by email now, so even if you go back to the States, you'll get the email telling you the card is ready for pickup.

Of course, if a notario can smooth the way immediately, the is much better. It's difficult to believe that with so many Canadians and Americans owning homes in Mexico but as you coming down only for the winter on tourist visas that there isn't a way to sell their property without residency, but I don't know.


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## Bobbyb (Mar 9, 2014)

For starters you need a new real estate agent. He/she should be familiar with all the requirements. Many homes in our area are sold without a Temporary status. I remember seeing something about the Notario getting the CURP or just signing off.


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## Raypinciotti (Jan 20, 2016)

Is it my imagination or are rules starting to get enforced in Mexico, especially with SAT? It seems to me it used to be a little easier to get away with stuff ...


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## RVGRINGO (May 16, 2007)

The government made an astounding discovery just a few years ago: Computers can keep track of stuff !


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## sparks (Jun 17, 2007)

It should be a Notario telling him what he needs .... not a sales person


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## chicois8 (Aug 8, 2009)

sparks said:


> It should be a Notario telling him what he needs .... not a sales person


Scott, not sure what sales person you are referring to.???

The folks at SAT are not salespersons either are the folks that work at INM are not salespersons. I never asked my real estate agent what to do and after visiting a notario they said to call for an appointment and bring 2 copies of my passport, birth certificate, current electric bill and 1 copy of my FMM...explain I am selling not buying and at 1PM today I got my RFC Number...

Just glad I did not go the Nombre Presa route like some numbskull advised 10 years ago....


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## Howler (Apr 22, 2013)

Wow! All of this hassle makes it sound MUCH easier to rent instead of buying!! :confused2: :noidea: :loco:


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

Howler said:


> Wow! All of this hassle makes it sound MUCH easier to rent instead of buying!! :confused2: :noidea: :loco:


Why I prefer to own rather than rent:

I like to be able to change things to the way I like without having to ask permission. Put in a solar system; repaint; change locks; add fencing; whatever.

I like not having to think about rent increasing.

I like not having to talk to a landlord ever.

I like feeling like a part of the community. (I know renters are part also, but they are less invested, since they can always move.)

To each his own. I know it is a luxury to have the option to buy and I am appreciative of my good fortune.


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## AlanMexicali (Jun 1, 2011)

TundraGreen said:


> Why I prefer to own rather than rent:
> 
> I like to be able to change things to the way I like without having to ask permission. Put in a solar system; repaint; change locks; add fencing; whatever.
> 
> ...



I agree with all your points. I didn´t rent in the US why would I suddenly want to rent in Mexico? I´m not going anywhere soon. I´ve built 2 houses and even saved more. I always saw renting as me investing in someone elses retirement fund, not mine.


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

If only I had the funds to buy a place of my own . . .


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## Raypinciotti (Jan 20, 2016)

Howler said:


> Wow! All of this hassle makes it sound MUCH easier to rent instead of buying!! :confused2: :noidea: :loco:


Nah, you just go to the Notario , he tells you which papers you need and that's it. Getting an RFC is not a huge deal either, you can do it online, as long as you have your residency. 

But I gotta agree that renting is cheaper and easier in the long run. My wife and I own a beautiful house in Mexico, and it is rewarding to have it, but man.... I wonder constantly "do we have enough money to keep the place running?" ....


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

Raypinciotti said:


> Nah, you just go to the Notario , he tells you which papers you need and that's it. Getting an RFC is not a huge deal either, you can do it online, as long as you have your residency.
> 
> But I gotta agree that renting is cheaper and easier in the long run. My wife and I own a beautiful house in Mexico, and it is rewarding to have it, but man.... I wonder constantly "do we have enough money to keep the place running?" ....


I agree on both counts.

I have been working on repairing my house for a year and a half. I probably have another 6-12 months of work to finish. Then it will be time to start over. An old adobe house is a high maintenance project.


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## chuck846 (Jan 15, 2016)

At the closing when we purchased our house - I thought it was mentioned that if your house was your primary residence and you lived there 5 years (or so) you owed no taxes on the profit. Maybe that is a state specific thing.


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

chuck846 said:


> At the closing when we purchased our house - I thought it was mentioned that if your house was your primary residence and you lived there 5 years (or so) you owed no taxes on the profit. Maybe that is a state specific thing.


Which state do you live in?


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## chuck846 (Jan 15, 2016)

chuck846 said:


> At the closing when we purchased our house - I thought it was mentioned that if your house was your primary residence and you lived there 5 years (or so) you owed no taxes on the profit. Maybe that is a state specific thing.


I was close. Apparently in Oct. 2015 they changed it from 5 to 3 years.

"Por último, se plantea que la exención para enajenación de casa habitación será aplicable siempre que durante los tres años inmediatos anteriores a la fecha de enajenación de que se trate, el contribuyente no hubiere enajenado otra casa habitación por la que hubiera obtenido la exención prevista."

0257 - Avala Comisión de Hacienda Miscelánea Fiscal 2016 / 18 / Octubre / 2015 / Boletines / Comunicación / Inicio - Camara de Diputados


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## Howler (Apr 22, 2013)

Raypinciotti said:


> Nah, you just go to the Notario , he tells you which papers you need and that's it. Getting an RFC is not a huge deal either, you can do it online, as long as you have your residency.
> 
> But I gotta agree that renting is cheaper and easier in the long run. My wife and I own a beautiful house in Mexico, and it is rewarding to have it, but man.... I wonder constantly "do we have enough money to keep the place running?" ....


I was just trying to put a humorous aside to the discussion. My wife's recent (and still-ongoing) experience of getting her house back into her own name after her mother died started with visits to several Notarios until she found one that knew what she was talking about. Still, I agree, a Notario is the best place/person to begin with in buying or selling property & sorting out the legalities of doing so.

Even throughout my military career I bought a house where ever I was assigned (except in California) which was great for my taxes - and the equity when we sold & moved on. I also liked the freedom of being able to upgrade & do whatever I wanted to the house & yard. Still, I understand the wisdom of renting first, before buying in Mexico just to be sure the locale is going to be to your long-term liking.

I just wish we could get on with our dream of moving & settling in down there...


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