# adding mother



## whizzard (Jan 28, 2013)

Hello mates

I had submitted EOI without including my dependent mother earlier assuming that we would get her to Australia on tourist VISA later and on settlement in Oz, we would apply her PR also. But now after getting my invitation on subclass 190, I have also realized that getting a parental PR is quite tough and expensive later on.

Hence, I want to include her in my VISA application now itself, so that she also gets the PR with along with us. 

She has very less knowledge of English and I am ready to pay 4250$ for her.

I want to understand - 
1. Can I now include her in my PR with my wife and daughter?
2. Will this impact the timing of my PR?
3. When will I need to pay the additional 4250$? 
4. Is there any other alternative?


Appreciate your expert comments on this.

Thanks.


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## Guest (Jul 2, 2013)

Including family members

You may add her but what are her circumstances? Having parents accepted as dependents is quite difficult.


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## whizzard (Jan 28, 2013)

_shel said:


> Including family members
> 
> You may add her but what are her circumstances? Having parents accepted as dependents is quite difficult.


Well she is 55 years and no income source of her own. My father expired in 2003 so she is totally dependent on me.


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## whizzard (Jan 28, 2013)

whizzard said:


> Well she is 55 years and no income source of her own. My father expired in 2003 so she is totally dependent on me.


To add I have a sister who got married lat year so now effectively there's no one except me to take care of her.


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## Guest (Jul 2, 2013)

Just because your sister married it does not mean she is not able to look after your mother. It may be the case in India but not so in Australia or Australian migration regulations. 

But she may still qualify. Does she live in your home? 

She has no pensions or employment? But she is of working age so that will be taken into account by DIAC because unless she is disabled, which raises other issues, she could get a job and take care of herself.


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## alamin104 (Dec 15, 2012)

whizzard said:


> To add I have a sister who got married lat year so now effectively there's no one except me to take care of her.


If your mom has been a dependent on you for food & house and you are the one who is providing the money then her chance of getting PR is almost certain, provided that you have documentary evidence to show. But if your father is alive, she cant. She must be widowed or divorced.

Although it says in the DIAC website that, you have to prove there is no one else able to take care, is actually not a requirement


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## whizzard (Jan 28, 2013)

alamin104 said:


> If your mom has been a dependent on you for food & house and you are the one who is providing the money then her chance of getting PR is almost certain, provided that you have documentary evidence to show. But if your father is alive, she cant. She must be widowed or divorced.
> 
> Although it says in the DIAC website that, you have to prove there is no one else able to take care, is actually not a requirement as per migration law


Hi

What proofs can I provide as an evidence that she is dependent on me since she lives with us in the same house, I dont transfer funds to her account for daily expenses but give her cash. She does not get any pension from anywhere. 

We have address proofs for same address- does that work?
Her name is mentioned on my educational certificates. 
Also I can provide my father's death certificate.
What else could be needed?

Thx.


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## findraj (Sep 24, 2012)

whizzard said:


> Hi
> 
> What proofs can I provide as an evidence that she is dependent on me since she lives with us in the same house, I dont transfer funds to her account for daily expenses but give her cash. She does not get any pension from anywhere.
> 
> ...


Does she have a bank account? Get a bank statement or any ids that you both share the same address..Also Father's death certificate is a must in order for her to qualify. Keep her status as widowed ( since she never remarried )

If the CO ask for more clarifications thats when you tell your CO about sharing the same address, fathers death, and her dependency to take care of her.

*Please keep in mind she will have to clear Medicals even if you are willing to pay VAC2 for her..If she doesnt clear meds, your visa will be most likely rejected. 
*

Hope it turns out all well for you and your family. 

Raj


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## alamin104 (Dec 15, 2012)

Opening a bank account for your mother wont help as you need to prove at least last one year's dependency on you. Get a letter from ministry of social welfare that your mother is not receiving any kind of benefit from the government. This is what my CO asked for my dependent sister. You also need to have documentary evidence that your mother has been staying with you for the last one year. Letters to your mother bearing the address will do in this regard. If you can prove that there is no other earning member living in your household, it will imply that you are providing the food. Medical biils for your mother paid by you can also be submitted. 
What Raj has written is true. If your mother cant pass medical test or character requirement the whole application will be refused.

About the time, for me its really taking a lot longer than usual. I dont know whether its for my sis or security check. My CO has not clarified, she just said "standard processing and checking going on" 
Regards

Mustofa


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## findraj (Sep 24, 2012)

alamin104 said:


> About the time, for me its really taking a lot longer than usual. I dont know whether its for my sis or security check. My CO has not clarified, she just said "standard processing and checking going on"
> Regards
> 
> Mustofa



Its not for your sis, because CO would know what decision would have been taken, if you have submitted all the proofs and CO has not replied since then, you must assume that your sister is accepted as a dependent. 

Processing and Checking mean verifying your background with respect to security. In short verifying the PCC contents mostly, it could be employment verification as well but that wouldnt take 6-7 months...


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## whizzard (Jan 28, 2013)

findraj said:


> Does she have a bank account? Get a bank statement or any ids that you both share the same address..Also Father's death certificate is a must in order for her to qualify. Keep her status as widowed ( since she never remarried )
> 
> If the CO ask for more clarifications thats when you tell your CO about sharing the same address, fathers death, and her dependency to take care of her.
> 
> ...


I think I can do as suggested above....

One more thing... what all do they test in medicals? Also what's checked in PCC? I am sure we wont have any problems but still want to make sure.

Also.. is it recommended if I get the similar tests for my mom prior to including her in visa application so that I am sure she is all fit for final medicals! Although she doesnt have any past bad medical history except that she underwent a surgery to remove the ovary in 2003.

Thx.


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## whizzard (Jan 28, 2013)

whizzard said:


> I think I can do as suggested above....
> 
> One more thing... what all do they test in medicals? Also what's checked in PCC? I am sure we wont have any problems but still want to make sure.
> 
> ...


Oops I meant uterus removal operation in 2003


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## espresso (Nov 2, 2012)

Hi whizzard, 
the Panel Member Instructions will give you an in-depth insight at what the medicals will be like and what conditions are considered "ok" and to what extent. 

You can also read through the information on Form 26 and Form 160. DIAC will mostly look at the expected costs for the Australian healthcare system and if your mom will be able to work (if she's not of retirement age yet). If the uterus removal was due to a cancer or a disposition for cancer in the family, you should submit treatment records. The grading is as follows: 



> *Cancer*
> _A-Grade:_ No recurrence ≥ five years post-treatment.
> _B-Grade:_ New diagnosis, recurrence exists, or if <five years since treatment. Specialist report required.


Note that B-graded applications may be referred to a Medical Officer of the Commonwealth (MOC) for an independent medical opinion. This will delay visa processing by a couple of months because the queue is so long. 

All the best, 
Monika


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## whizzard (Jan 28, 2013)

espresso said:


> Hi whizzard,
> the Panel Member Instructions will give you an in-depth insight at what the medicals will be like and what conditions are considered "ok" and to what extent.
> 
> You can also read through the information on Form 26 and Form 160. DIAC will mostly look at the expected costs for the Australian healthcare system and if your mom will be able to work (if she's not of retirement age yet). If the uterus removal was due to a cancer or a disposition for cancer in the family, you should submit treatment records. The grading is as follows:
> ...


No uterus removal was not due to cancerous reasons.


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## whizzard (Jan 28, 2013)

whizzard said:


> No uterus removal was not due to cancerous reasons.


Monika

Do you recommend that I get my mother examined for some specific tests privately before the formal medical tests for her? If yes what tests are advised to be sure? 

Also, curious to know if, god forbids, the application is rejected due to any medical reasons for my mother, can I remove her name from the application in between? In that case I will go first with my wife and kid and get her to Australia on visitors visa as per the visa rules. Kindly advice.

Thx all.


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## nuked (Jan 7, 2013)

whizzard, I would recommend you apply without your mother (no offences meant) and invite her when you reach there instead of taking the risk of rejection and wasting the entire application amount.

the decission is all yours. cheers!


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## whizzard (Jan 28, 2013)

nuked said:


> whizzard, I would recommend you apply without your mother (no offences meant) and invite her when you reach there instead of taking the risk of rejection and wasting the entire application amount.
> 
> the decission is all yours. cheers!


Nuked.... mate what made u say I should apply without my mom first? I've heard that its next to impossible to get parent's visa later on and quite expensive also. 
If there is a rejection on med grounds can u not then remove her name from the application? 
Normally she has no health problems as such.


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## Guest (Jul 4, 2013)

I dont see any issue with your mum passing medicals if she has no health issues and only had that surgery. I would get her blood sugars checked and a general check up in case their is anything hiding but otherwise she should pass ok.


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## whizzard (Jan 28, 2013)

whizzard said:


> I think I can do as suggested above....
> 
> One more thing... what all do they test in medicals? Also what's checked in PCC? I am sure we wont have any problems but still want to make sure.
> 
> ...





_shel said:


> I dont see any issue with your mum passing medicals if she has no health issues and only had that surgery. I would get her blood sugars checked and a general check up in case their is anything hiding but otherwise she should pass ok.


We got her blood sugar checked sometimes back too and it was all fine.

She does have the uterus removal surgery scars on the abdomen but those are 10 yrs older and she has not faced any problems thereafter.


But as recommended, I will get her re-diagnosed for Diabetes and TB which I believe are the most critical tests.

Thx.


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## nuked (Jan 7, 2013)

as mentioned no offences meant, but its better to be safe then sorry. InshAllah all will be well. you have taken a Bold and wise decision of not leaving your mother alone for others to take care of her. God be with you! Good luck.


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## whizzard (Jan 28, 2013)

nuked said:


> as mentioned no offences meant, but its better to be safe then sorry. InshAllah all will be well. you have taken a Bold and wise decision of not leaving your mother alone for others to take care of her. God be with you! Good luck.


Nuked .... thanks for your concern. I too want to play very safe but have a moral responsibility of taking care of my mum after dad has gone. 

I'd like to hear some more opinions if people would help me so that my motive to get a PR for entire family would be fulfilled. 

Concerns- 
1. Meds rejections and ability to review
2. Reapply without mother after combined application is refused? 
3. Procedure for applying for mother in case I wanna apply from Aus after I have got pr and started living there.


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## shiraz (Jul 4, 2012)

Hi All,

I've also applied with my mother as my dependent. The CO has asked for following documents for her depenedency:

You have listed XXX as a migrating dependent and as such she will
be required to meet health, character and English requirements. She will also need to prove
his/her dependency on you.
In order to meet the definition of Member of Family Unit (MoFU) under regulation 1.12(1)(e),
relatives of the family head (or relatives of the spouse or de facto partner of the family head)
must satisfy the regulation 1.05A definition of dependent.

Reg 1.12 Member of the family unit
1.12 (1) For the definition of member of the family unit in subsection 5(1) of the Act, and subject
to subregulations (2), (2A), (6) and (7), a person is a member of the family unit of another person
(in this subregulation called the family head) if the person is:
(e) a relative of the family head or of a spouse or de facto partner of the family head who:
(i) does not have a spouse or de facto partner; and
(ii) is usually resident in the family head's household; and
(iii) is dependent on the family head.

Reg 1.05A Dependent
1.05A (1) Subject to subregulation (2), a person (the first person) is dependent on another person
if:
(a) at the time when it is necessary to establish whether the first person is dependent on the
other person:
(i) the first person is, and has been for a substantial period immediately before that time, wholly
or substantially reliant on the other person for financial support to meet the first person’s basic
needs for food, clothing and shelter; and
(ii) the first person’s reliance on the other person is greater than any reliance by the first person
on any other person, or source of support, for financial support to meet the first person’s basic
needs for food, clothing and shelter; or
(b) the first person is wholly or substantially reliant on the other person for financial support
because the first person is incapacitated for work due to the total or partial loss of the first
person’s bodily or mental functions.


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## Guest (Jul 5, 2013)

whizzard said:


> Nuked .... thanks for your concern. I too want to play very safe but have a moral responsibility of taking care of my mum after dad has gone.
> 
> I'd like to hear some more opinions if people would help me so that my motive to get a PR for entire family would be fulfilled.
> 
> ...


 It is a long process to sponsor mum later. First you have to be resident for 2 years first and she needs to meet the balance if family test. The quick (18 months) visa to be granted is very expensive, $40000. The slow visa to be granted (15 years) is cheap. 

You will be given the chance to remove her if CO does not believe her to be dependent. So long as you can provude evidence of her dependency you should be ok.


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## whizzard (Jan 28, 2013)

Looking at the above suggestions I am tempted to think of alternate solutions..

Can someone tell me- 

1. Can I apply visitor visa for her- long term or short term
2. How long can she stay with me on that visitor visa
3. Any special conditions
4. Costs associated or bond money to be deposited as fee.

Appreciate every response.


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## bhashmi (Jan 3, 2013)

shiraz said:


> Hi All,
> 
> I've also applied with my mother as my dependent. The CO has asked for following documents for her depenedency:
> 
> ...


Thank you sheraz for sharing the info. Can you please share which kind of document do we need to provide for the evidence of above clauses


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## shiraz (Jul 4, 2012)

bhashmi said:


> Thank you sheraz for sharing the info. Can you please share which kind of document do we need to provide for the evidence of above clauses


You can use the following documents


FRC - for relationship evidence
Bank statements or ID cards for proof of address that you and your parent is living at same address
Death/Divorce certificate as proof of relationship
Documents that show that your parent is financial dependent upon you - that is the tricky part

Hope this helps


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## bhashmi (Jan 3, 2013)

shiraz said:


> You can use the following documents
> 
> 
> FRC - for relationship evidence
> ...


Thank you for your help and good to see that you are also from Pakistan


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## bhashmi (Jan 3, 2013)

shiraz said:


> You can use the following documents
> 
> 
> FRC - for relationship evidence
> ...


For Point No 4, what kind of documents you are going to provide to show the financial dependency? Also, my mother has a bank account on which our tenant deposit the monthly rent on it. Would they going to consider it as an income of my mother and may reject the PR?


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## shiraz (Jul 4, 2012)

Not really sure about the rental income.

I've sent her bank statement to show she has no income.



bhashmi said:


> For Point No 4, what kind of documents you are going to provide to show the financial dependency? Also, my mother has a bank account on which our tenant deposit the monthly rent on it. Would they going to consider it as an income of my mother and may reject the PR?


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## bhashmi (Jan 3, 2013)

shiraz said:


> Not really sure about the rental income.
> 
> I've sent her bank statement to show she has no income.


Anybody else shed some light on the rental income


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## bhashmi (Jan 3, 2013)

bhashmi said:


> Anybody else shed some light on the rental income


@_shel, please help


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## Guest (Jul 18, 2013)

What money does she have in the account and where does it come from?


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## bhashmi (Jan 3, 2013)

_shel said:


> What money does she have in the account and where does it come from?


Actually, our tenant entitled to get rent from his company and his company deposits the rent on my mother bank account every month. But later (after deposit) my mother writes a check for him in order to return it because he pays the rent on cash and the rent is much lower to what he is entitled. The transaction is just Credit and then Debit equal to the amount company deposit. It does not effect on the end balance.

Hope I gave you the right explanation of the scenario.


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## Guest (Jul 18, 2013)

So it shouldnt be an issue, just get her to write a statutory declaration explaining that. Include copies of bank statements so they can see it is money in then straight out that she is not spending herself in small bits here and there.


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## bhashmi (Jan 3, 2013)

_shel said:


> So it shouldnt be an issue, just get her to write a statutory declaration explaining that. Include copies of bank statements so they can see it is money in then straight out that she is not spending herself in small bits here and there.


Yes. may be you are right but this would give them the indication that she has some kind of income that she can be use for her survival.


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## Guest (Jul 18, 2013)

Maybe but how much is it? would it keep her housed, fed, bills and medical?

Is it guaranteed forever or could the tenant go and not be replaced?

Who owns the property? If jointly the other people would be entitled to share that rent.


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## bhashmi (Jan 3, 2013)

_shel said:


> Maybe but how much is it? would it keep her housed, fed, bills and medical?
> 
> Is it guaranteed forever or could the tenant go and not be replaced?
> 
> Who owns the property? If jointly the other people would be entitled to share that rent.


Yes. It is just 15000 PKR (Per month) which is nothing for a person to survive by paying bills, medicals, clothing and food. 

My mother owns the property but it is not guaranteed they can leave any time with out giving prior notice and also there is no guarantee that when the new tenant would come. So it is risky for anyone to rely on


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## waqaskhanz02 (Sep 13, 2014)

*Adding mother dependent non migrating to migrating*

First of all, What happen to your case ?

My situation is quite similar but my mother is 62 years old and she has also diabeties.

I have added her as a dependent non migrating, if she pass her medical I will add her as migrating dependent.

What will be the consequences if she fails her medical now , is it effect on my case too ?

If she passes medical test than what will be the impact on my case if I change her status 
from non migrating to migrating dependent.


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## shiraz (Jul 4, 2012)

waqaskhanz02 said:


> First of all, What happen to your case ?
> 
> My situation is quite similar but my mother is 62 years old and she has also diabeties.
> 
> ...


There is no advantage of adding her as a non-migrating dependent as you wont be able to change her status to migrating later on.

There is one fail all fail policy for medicals. If she doesn't qualify you will also be rejected.

You need to find out more about diabetes I'm not sure if having diabetes will disqualify her.


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## waqaskhanz02 (Sep 13, 2014)

If I cannot change the status of my mother from non migrating dependent to dependent migrating dependent before my visa granted then why they ask for the medical.

I did not add my wife , my children and my mother as migrating dependent because I was short of finance at that time.

I know I can add my partner and children before my visa granted through form 1436 but what about my mother why they ask for medical if I cannot add her before the visa granted.


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## waqaskhanz02 (Sep 13, 2014)

Please reply


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## espresso (Nov 2, 2012)

*Why do they ask for a medical for my mom (non-migrating dependent)? *
That's actually quite normal. To quote from the DIBP homepage: 



> *Important:* The above health examinations _will also need to be completed by any non-migrating dependents_, that is any members of your family unit who do not intend to migrate and are not included in your visa application, _in case they decide to migrate in the future_.


DIBP does not like to separate families and if your mom is dependent on you, there is a high likelihood that you'll try to get her to join you later. That's why they ask for medicals, even if she is not included in the current application. The same applies to your partner and children.


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## waqaskhanz02 (Sep 13, 2014)

How can I add her (my mother ) later ?

I want to add her now from non migrating to migrating.


They take the medical because there is likelihood that I will add dependent at later stage 
so now I have decided to add her from non migrating to migrating dependent .

Visa not granted to me yet.


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## espresso (Nov 2, 2012)

I don't think you can add her now. While it says _"You can add your partner and dependent children to your application at any time until your visa is decided."_ on the 189/190 visa pages, there is no mention of other dependent relatives. You could appeal to your case officer, saying you made a mistake and want to include your mom in the application. It's worth a try... 

The medicals are necessary because you could apply for a Parent Visa for your mom after living in Australia for two years. They don't indicate that you can switch your mom's status in the current application.


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## waqaskhanz02 (Sep 13, 2014)

Thanks for reply,


If my case officer allows me to add my mother at this stage and i am fail to proof my case officer that she is dependent on me because of lack of documentary proof then

Will CO refuse only my mother case or the whole case like they have the policy for medical.

-------------------------------------------- question to your reply espresso-------------------

When I will apply for parent visa, would this medical examination of my mother consider ? 

if they will not consider then there is no reason to get the medical at this stage of non migrant dependents like mother because they don't have any clear policy to add her at this stage so why medical for non migrant dependent mother.


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## skksundar (Apr 29, 2014)

waqaskhanz02 said:


> Thanks for reply,
> 
> 
> If my case officer allows me to add my mother at this stage and i am fail to proof my case officer that she is dependent on me because of lack of documentary proof then
> ...


If you can't prove the dependency, your CO might ask you to remove her from the VISA application! This is the case when a CO is allocated. Recently, I read about a case where a guy was *directly refused *VISA since his agent didn't upload the document proving his education. 

So it would be better for you wait until you get a CO allocated and present your case with him and add your mother as dependent after taking his consent.


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## espresso (Nov 2, 2012)

> When I will apply for parent visa, would this medical examination of my mother consider ?


Medicals are only valid for a year, so she will have to retake them once/if you apply for a parent visa for her. However, the medicals will reveal if she has any medical condition that will likely lead to a visa refusal in the future. That can have a huge impact on a person's decision to migrate or not. Imagine the following situation: You apply for your visa, go to Australia, live there for two years, apply for a parent visa (at great cost, see below) and then the visa is refused. That's why they are screening all dependent applicants, even if you don't include them in the visa right now. 

Note that only _contributory_ parent visa classes are open now, which cost more than *40,000AUD*. If you can include your mom in your current application, that will be a lot cheaper. But, as I said, you may not be able to include her at this stage. Also check that she fulfils the requirements of "dependent" status, which are: 



> Your other relatives will be considered dependent if all of the following apply:
> they do not have a spouse or de facto partner
> they usually live with you
> they are wholly or substantially reliant on your financial support for their basic living needs (food, shelter and clothing)
> ...


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## waqaskhanz02 (Sep 13, 2014)

Thanks for replies .
I know I am quiet curious but I cannot stop this curiosity because I have not any other source of guidance, I am taking my case by myself.

If I ask the question to CO then there are two possibilities

1) CO say add your mother and when I am failed to show that she is dependent on me. CO does not inform me and he simply refuse my application.(IS THAT POSSIBLE)

although I have all the proofs that he is dependent on me except bank account which shows I am transferring money from my account into her. (IS THIS IMPORTANT , can we show statutory declaration or something else) 


2) CO say no that you cannot add mother at this stage because of immigration policy (IS that possible that he refuse my visa because he may think If he gives grant to me then he may play with my family separation )


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## _shel (Mar 2, 2014)

waqaskhanz02 said:


> Thanks for replies .
> I know I am quiet curious but I cannot stop this curiosity because I have not any other source of guidance, I am taking my case by myself.
> 
> If I ask the question to CO then there are two possibilities
> ...


 You cant add mother after you apply. No your visa cant be rejected because of that.


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## waqaskhanz02 (Sep 13, 2014)

I have read few threads and some of them just send bank statement details which shows no income . 
In my case , my mother have bank account which shows no income but it does not show that I am transferring money from my account to her account.

My question is would this proof can be consider as financial dependency of my mother on me.

Regards
M.Waqas Khan


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## _shel (Mar 2, 2014)

waqaskhanz02 said:


> I have read few threads and some of them just send bank statement details which shows no income .
> In my case , my mother have bank account which shows no income but it does not show that I am transferring money from my account to her account.
> 
> My question is would this proof can be consider as financial dependency of my mother on me.
> ...


 No, but you do not need to give her money to prove she is dependent if you can show she lives in your home and proof of other things you pay for her essential living costs.


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## shiraz (Jul 4, 2012)

waqaskhanz02 said:


> I have read few threads and some of them just send bank statement details which shows no income .
> In my case , my mother have bank account which shows no income but it does not show that I am transferring money from my account to her account.
> 
> My question is would this proof can be consider as financial dependency of my mother on me.
> ...


That is inconclusive proof. In my case CO asked for clarification on bank statement. I provided a statuary declaration indicating that she does not have any income source


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## JeDiKnight (Feb 11, 2014)

guys, need some help here. I have added my mom who stays with me as a dependent in my application as my father passed away more than a year back. now CO wants proof of dependency and that she is living with me. I usually give her cash and there is no proof of her staying with me as she doesnt need any. i had added her as a joint account holder this year to apply for PCC but that is only a few months ago. any suggestions on how to proceed? should i just try explaining to the CO about my case?


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## cancerianlrules (Feb 6, 2014)

JeDiKnight said:


> guys, need some help here. I have added my mom who stays with me as a dependent in my application as my father passed away more than a year back. now CO wants proof of dependency and that she is living with me. I usually give her cash and there is no proof of her staying with me as she doesnt need any. i had added her as a joint account holder this year to apply for PCC but that is only a few months ago. any suggestions on how to proceed? should i just try explaining to the CO about my case?


1. Present proofs that she is living with you since more than a year 

2. Show proofs that you are paying the utility bills and other expenses yourselves. 

Does your mother have any income?


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## JeDiKnight (Feb 11, 2014)

cancerianlrules said:


> 1. Present proofs that she is living with you since more than a year
> 
> 2. Show proofs that you are paying the utility bills and other expenses yourselves.
> 
> Does your mother have any income?


The problem is there is no documentary proof that she is living with me except the joint account that i got done in June 2014. There are no bills in her name either which can be shown. i might have some medical bills which i paid for but how do i prove that i paid for it? She doesn't have any income.


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## _shel (Mar 2, 2014)

Letters addressed to her which show your address. 
Her bank and savings statements showing no income and your address. 
Official documents showing her address = passport, car registration, doctors registration or bills, pension letters etc

All must cover a 12 month period immediately prior to applying. 

If you have none of that they probably wont accept her as dependent.


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## JeDiKnight (Feb 11, 2014)

apart from the bank account got in June 2014, probably the only letter addressed to her with my address would be a medical insurance letter which i had got in Jan 2014. There are dentist bills but they dont show her address nor that I paid for them.


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## _shel (Mar 2, 2014)

A bank account from june wont prove it. You need her accounts showing her kack of income not a new joint account. 

Everything must show her address, the same address you have given for yourself. 

If she does live with you this stuff should be available even as duplicates ordered from the organisation in question.


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## CN84 (Jan 25, 2015)

Hi all, 
I am a new member. I want to apply for 189 visa and want to include my dad (recently divorced) and two brothers (one of them is 19) in my application as my dependents. I've been sending them money to pay for their rent, food etc as none of them work and I've been doing this for the last year or so. 

Do you think I can prove their dependency this way? They dont live with me but I understand the requirement is that they should usually live with you (ie not always). They live back home where there is no government help and no one else to support them.

Has anyone proved family members dependency in this way? Will including them have any negative affect on my application?
If Aus immi decides they are not dependent, would my application be automatically rejected?

I've spoken a migration agent who said in my case I can include them but it is up to Aus immi to decide whether they qualify as dependents (and if they decide they are not then my application be refused as well). 
I just want to find out other people's experience as well before going ahead with application.

Thanks a lot guys.


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## alamin104 (Dec 15, 2012)

Include them without hesitation.. So far I know, one fails, all fail rule is only on character and medical ground.


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## _shel (Mar 2, 2014)

alamin104 said:


> Include them without hesitation.. So far I know, one fails, all fail rule is only on character and medical ground.


 None of them live with him, the first major criteria of dependence. Plus his brothers cant be his dependents because they are his dads dependents as their father. 
Giving them money towards rent is not dependence, they need to be financially dependent on him, that means none of them can be working and the brothers need to be in full time education. 

There are cases where I would risk the fee if borderline but this isnt one I'd advise spending that much money on an application that clearly doesnt meet the criteria.


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## CN84 (Jan 25, 2015)

_shel said:


> None of them live with him, the first major criteria of dependence. Plus his brothers cant be his dependents because they are his dads dependents as their father.
> Giving them money towards rent is not dependence, they need to be financially dependent on him, that means none of them can be working and the brothers need to be in full time education.
> 
> There are cases where I would risk the fee if borderline but this isnt one I'd advise spending that much money on an application that clearly doesnt meet the criteria.


_shel as far as I know the wording is "usually" live with you. As for my brothers they are my dad's dependent but he is relying for me on financial support for food and rent. None of them are working.

I think they are financially (not physically) dependent on me because without my financial support they wont be able to survive.

I take it as moderator you've read a lot of posts, what could be the problems in your opinion if I decide to include them? How else can a person be financial dependent on another person? Please elaborate as I get the feeling its not as black and white.

Thanks


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## Scattley (Jul 30, 2012)

For your brother...unless he is under 18 he has to be under 25 and in FT university education or disabled in some way. Otherwise the expectation is that he gets a job. Adults who cannot look after themselves but are in the normal earning wage age bracket are seen as a liability immigration wise. If he can't get a job in his home country chances are he is going to need to rely on welfare payments in Australia. That is immigrations thinking.


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## Confused Pom (Dec 17, 2014)

CN84 said:


> _shel as far as I know the wording is "usually" live with you. As for my brothers they are my dad's dependent but he is relying for me on financial support for food and rent. None of them are working.
> 
> I think they are financially (not physically) dependent on me because without my financial support they wont be able to survive.
> 
> ...


If they don't live with you and all you do is send them money to feed them and pay their rent... you can continue to do this from Australia when you move.... no need for them to get a visa and go with you. 

You don't physically do anything for them that means you need to be in the same country. That is sort of what things like Western Union are for sending money back home. Surely if someone on this forum can think that the DIBP will possibly think something similar?


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## psai1989 (Apr 8, 2016)

My mother earns pension of 20K INR but she lives with me. Can I still include her?


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## alamin104 (Dec 15, 2012)

psai1989 said:


> My mother earns pension of 20K INR but she lives with me. Can I still include her?


How much do u contribute towards your mom's food and housing?


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## rmg123 (Sep 14, 2016)

*Are my docs enough?*

I am also looking to add my mother.
I have the following documents:

1) Widowed
(i) Father's death certificate (exipred 12 months ago)
(ii) Elder sister not living with us as married and is unemployed.
2) Same Address
(i) Passport and Election IDs have same address
(ii) Cooking Gas Utility Bill has same address
3) No income and Financially Dependent on me
(i) Her bank account statement for last one year show no income
BUT the bank account does not have same address, was opened when we lived somewhere else, will that be a problem?
(ii) ADD-ON CREDIT CARD - Will it help ??
I have add-on Credit Card in her name and I am the primary card holder and pay both of them from my bank accounts

She is 59 years old and we got a health checkup done 6 months back which came out well so I am positive about the health and character checkup.

So my queries are:

Q1) With what I had mentioned above in terms of documentation, do you think that is enough? What other documents could be asked?
I do not do any transfer to her account as we live together and I take out cash myself.

Q2) Does dependent parent also need to prove English proficiency? If yes what is the minimum score required in PTE?
I am scared that she does not use PCs so it may be a struggle and IELTS she may not be confident in having face to face discussion.

Q3) Is there any post in the forum that lists all the health examinations that are done? I saw several posts in which people asked this question but no one gave a straight answer. I know TB (Chest X-ray), HIV and basic blood work.

Q4) Opinion: Should I include my mom as a PR or not? I don't want to risk my application but hear that it is not a risk as CO can let me remove her if they find the documents unsatisfactory. But looking at the proofs that I mentioned I have, what is your opinion?

Q5) If you think Ans to Q4 is not to add her. What are the chances of her being denied a visitor visa. I am fine with us applying visitor visa which she can keep getting renewed. But just worry what if it gets denied say 1-2 years down the line and she has to move back.

Hope someone helps me out and also offers any more suggestions they would have.


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## Maggie-May24 (May 19, 2015)

rmg123 said:


> I am also looking to add my mother.
> I have the following documents:
> 
> 1) Widowed
> ...


1. Can't help with this question
2. She needs to either prove she has Functional English or else you pay an additional $4,885
3. The health exam includes a basic physical check, basic blood work (e.g. HIV), chest x-ray, eye exam, etc.
4. If DIBP doesn't agree she's your dependent you will be given the chance to remove her from your application. If she fails the medical check, your visa will be refused.
5. She can't live here on a visitor visa, so eventually an application would be refused if she doesn't leave enough time from returning home to applying for her next visitor visa. If she's your dependent and can pass the medical check, it may be better to include her in your application.


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## alamin104 (Dec 15, 2012)

Maggie-May24 said:


> 1. Can't help with this question
> 2. She needs to either prove she has Functional English or else you pay an additional $4,885
> 3. The health exam includes a basic physical check, basic blood work (e.g. HIV), chest x-ray, eye exam, etc.
> 4. If DIBP doesn't agree she's your dependent you will be given the chance to remove her from your application. If she fails the medical check, your visa will be refused.
> 5. She can't live here on a visitor visa, so eventually an application would be refused if she doesn't leave enough time from returning home to applying for her next visitor visa. If she's your dependent and can pass the medical check, it may be better to include her in your application.


You can add her only if you are confident enough that she will pass med check. If She fails med check, you will not be given any chance to remove her.
In other cases, if you fail to prove her dependency, she will automatically be removed from your application and it will not have any impact on your application.
As I said before, "One fails All fail" is only for, medical and security ground. I have double checked this.


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## rmg123 (Sep 14, 2016)

*Medical details*



alamin104 said:


> You can add her only if you are confident enough that she will pass med check. If She fails med check, you will not be given any chance to remove her.
> In other cases, if you fail to prove her dependency, she will automatically be removed from your application and it will not have any impact on your application.
> As I said before, "One fails All fail" is only for, medical and security ground. I have double checked this.


So I had a full body scan of my mother and everything was fine except Vitamin D and B12 deficiency and also that she had gall bladder stones in which she was told that if she wants they can remove the gall bladder which would be a very small operation or she can choose to live normally till she finds some discomfort. We chose not to as she feels fine.
Going by these results can anyone provide opinions are these serious enough to deny medical?
Also her eyesight is not perfect and she wears reading glasses.

Lastly, if she fails medical, will I be able to submit another EOI without her as dependent of it will eliminate me forever (ah.. on genetic grounds ?? )


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## rmg123 (Sep 14, 2016)

Maggie-May24 said:


> 1. Can't help with this question
> 2. She needs to either prove she has Functional English or else you pay an additional $4,885
> 3. The health exam includes a basic physical check, basic blood work (e.g. HIV), chest x-ray, eye exam, etc.
> 4. If DIBP doesn't agree she's your dependent you will be given the chance to remove her from your application. If she fails the medical check, your visa will be refused.
> 5. She can't live here on a visitor visa, so eventually an application would be refused if she doesn't leave enough time from returning home to applying for her next visitor visa. If she's your dependent and can pass the medical check, it may be better to include her in your application.


Thanks for your response.
I have an additional question regarding functional English. On the Australia Immigration website FAQ how to prove functional English, there are these 2 points mentioned.

=> Completed all years of primary education and at least three years of secondary education in an educational institution in or outside Australia and all instructions were in English.
=> Completed a degree, a higher degree, a diploma or a trade certificate that required at least two years of full-time study or training in an institution in or outside Australia and all instructions were in English.

My mother has a 3 years Bachelors of Commerce (Hons) degree that was taught in English.
If I look at the first bullet it says All years of primary and 3 years of secondary education to have been taught in English.
Whereas, the second bullet just mentions about having a Degree.
Doesn't the second bullet eliminate the need to show proof of school education in English?
Does the word Degree have a different meaning then what I am assuming (A 3 year Bachelor's degree)?

Asking because it will be next to impossible to get documents to prove the medium of education of her schools, as she moved often and one has even shut down decades ago.


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## alamin104 (Dec 15, 2012)

rmg123 said:


> So I had a full body scan of my mother and everything was fine except Vitamin D and B12 deficiency and also that she had gall bladder stones in which she was told that if she wants they can remove the gall bladder which would be a very small operation or she can choose to live normally till she finds some discomfort. We chose not to as she feels fine.
> Going by these results can anyone provide opinions are these serious enough to deny medical?
> Also her eyesight is not perfect and she wears reading glasses.
> 
> Lastly, if she fails medical, will I be able to submit another EOI without her as dependent of it will eliminate me forever (ah.. on genetic grounds ?? )


I dont think your mom will have any issue to clear medical. The only thing they check whether it will be a burden for Australian Government insurance.

And regarding your next inquiry related to English requirement, you will only need a certificate from tertiary education to prove language of instruction. This is what I submitted for my dependent sister.


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## rmg123 (Sep 14, 2016)

alamin104 said:


> I dont think your mom will have any issue to clear medical. The only thing they check whether it will be a burden for Australian Government insurance.
> 
> And regarding your next inquiry related to English requirement, you will only need a certificate from tertiary education to prove language of instruction. This is what I submitted for my dependent sister.


Thanks again for your reply. Sorry to ask but you applied a dependent sister and you got her PR as well successfully? I do not transfer any money into her account and we do not have any joint account, did you do any of these otherwise how did you prove her financial dependency on you? I do have an add-on credit card in her name in which the bill shows I clear the dues. Not sure if it is conclusive.


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## alamin104 (Dec 15, 2012)

rmg123 said:


> Thanks again for your reply. Sorry to ask but you applied a dependent sister and you got her PR as well successfully? I do not transfer any money into her account and we do not have any joint account, did you do any of these otherwise how did you prove her financial dependency on you? I do have an add-on credit card in her name in which the bill shows I clear the dues. Not sure if it is conclusive.


Yes she got grant letter too.
About dependency proof, how long she has been using the credit card? Are you the only earning member in your house? Does anyone else contribute towards house rent and food?

Well, in my sister's case I proved her financial dependency indirectly. My father was retired (submitted retirement document and pension amount which was too little) and so I was the person responsible for house rent, food etc.

Hope this helps


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## rmg123 (Sep 14, 2016)

alamin104 said:


> Yes she got grant letter too.
> About dependency proof, how long she has been using the credit card? Are you the only earning member in your house? Does anyone else contribute towards house rent and food?
> 
> Well, in my sister's case I proved her financial dependency indirectly. My father was retired (submitted retirement document and pension amount which was too little) and so I was the person responsible for house rent, food etc.
> ...


Thanks! My mom has the add-on card since 2009.
My father passed away in Dec 2015 so she has been completely dependent on me Since Dec 2015
(and If i get an invite I plan to apply only after dad's expiry date, so as to meet the 12 month requirement).
I am the only earning member as she is a homemaker, my sister is married and is homemaker herself. I pay the housing loan (which is in name of my father).

The only issue I have is I don't have any join account with mom or pay her anything in her account. Also her bank account does not have current residential address. What can I do to prove she does not earn and I pay, I am not sure.

My mother is a "Director" in a company of a relative in advisory capacity and does not draw salary. In her Government registration under companies act for this company, it is mentioned that her occupation is Homemaker. Now I am confused, I feel though this document proves she was a housewife, but if the CO does not understand Indian Company rules he may confuse her holding Director Post in the company as employment.


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## Maggie-May24 (May 19, 2015)

rmg123 said:


> Thanks for your response.
> I have an additional question regarding functional English. On the Australia Immigration website FAQ how to prove functional English, there are these 2 points mentioned.
> 
> => Completed all years of primary education and at least three years of secondary education in an educational institution in or outside Australia and all instructions were in English.
> ...


Applicants need to prove either of the bullets, so either all years of primary school and 3 years of secondary school OR completed degree (or diploma, certificate, etc.) of at least 2 years full-time study. If she has a 3-year degree that was taught in English, then I assume that would be fine. She needs to get a letter from the university that confirms the medium of study was in English.


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## alamin104 (Dec 15, 2012)

rmg123 said:


> Thanks! My mom has the add-on card since 2009.
> My father passed away in Dec 2015 so she has been completely dependent on me Since Dec 2015
> (and If i get an invite I plan to apply only after dad's expiry date, so as to meet the 12 month requirement).
> I am the only earning member as she is a homemaker, my sister is married and is homemaker herself. I pay the housing loan (which is in name of my father).
> ...


Get a certificate from your mom's company that the post of director is honorary.

Regarding joint account, its not compulsory as long as you have sufficient evidence to show you are paying for her food and housing.


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## cpham (May 8, 2016)

I am planning to add my mother (aged 58) as a migrating dependant when I am lodging for 189 Visa application this month. I have received the invite. Please advise if I can add her as my dependant.

Below is the situation:

1. She is widowed, my father has expired many years ago.
2. My brother is married and stays in a rented house in another suburb close to his office, he moved a couple of years ago.
3. My sister is married and stays in a separate house. In India the parents do not usually live in married daughters house, they stay with the sons.
4. Currently, me, my wife & son stay with my mom in my Parental house. The house is registered in her name. We have been staying with her for the last 3 years.
5. My mother does not have a significant income, she gets a meagre pension of 20 AUD( 1000 rupees). I pay for her expenses , mostly for food, clothing and any other incidentals.
6. She is planning to split her stay in Australia (with me) and India (with my brother), 1 year in australia, next year in India and so forth every other year.
7. She has Diabetes from last year, which is in control. Other wise she is healthy and may pass the medicals.

Thanks in advance for your suggestions


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## Maggie-May24 (May 19, 2015)

cpham said:


> I am planning to add my mother (aged 58) as a migrating dependant when I am lodging for 189 Visa application this month. I have received the invite. Please advise if I can add her as my dependant.
> 
> Below is the situation:
> 
> ...


The rules changed on November 19th, and you cannot include a parent.

Member of the Family Unit


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## cpham (May 8, 2016)

Thanks for the reply! As parent is no longer considered Member of the Family Unit, I believe I do not have to add my mother in the Non-migrating members of the family unit. So, no medical test and PCC will be required for her. Is my understanding correct?


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## rmg123 (Sep 14, 2016)

cpham said:


> Thanks for the reply! As parent is no longer considered Member of the Family Unit, I believe I do not have to add my mother in the Non-migrating members of the family unit. So, no medical test and PCC will be required for her. Is my understanding correct?


Good Question. I want info too.


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