# UK Ancestry - Certified Copies



## mallo (Nov 2, 2015)

Hi everyone,

I am applying for a UK Ancestry visa. I will be going to my biometric appointment this week (perth) where I will be submitting my documents of evidence.

Regarding the birth certificates and marriage certificates, I have all the originals for myself and parents.

However, for my grandparents birth and marriage certificates I only have photocpies certified by a Justice of the Peace (JP). I have read in a previous thread that if you have copies they should in fact be certified by a Notary Public. Does anyone have any further information as to whether this is true?
Or has anyone had any experience attaining the UK Ancestry Visa with JP Certified Copies?

Thanks very much


----------



## nyclon (Apr 3, 2011)

I believe they should be verified as original by the issuing authority.


----------



## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

How did JP certify the copy? Did they have both the original and copy in front of them and could confirm it was a genuine copy? Is the original available, and can't you send it instead?


----------



## mallo (Nov 2, 2015)

Joppa said:


> How did JP certify the copy? Did they have both the original and copy in front of them and could confirm it was a genuine copy? Is the original available, and can't you send it instead?


Yes, when they do the certification they have the original and the copy. On each document is a stamp and signature of the JP, and my grandmother (whose birth certificate / marriage certificate it is).

I just received this response from the UK home office, which is quite ambiguous / poorly worded.

"In response to your enquiry, as per our immigration rules, all supporting
documents must be original. If you would like to submitted certified copy,
you can do so. However, you will need to explain why you cannot submit
original version. However, if during the process your application, our
Entry Clearance Officer (ECO), would like to see original of those
documents, this will certainly make your application delayed."

My interpretation of this is that under a certain circumstance I can submit certified copies in lieu of originals, but must explain why I have done this. In my case this is because my grandparents live in another city and were unwilling to pass them on to me, especially given they are processed in Manila, Philippines - it seems unlikely we would see them again...? Anyway at the time we decided a certified copy should suffice.


----------



## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

I don't think reluctance for the certificate to be sent to Manila is unlikely to be an acceptable reason for submitting a copy, certified by JP or not.


----------



## mallo (Nov 2, 2015)

Thank you for your responses.

In that case, do you know what might count as a legitimate reason to provide certified copies? The originals are 90 years old and are very fragile with significant personal value to my grandparents.

I may be able to try and get them notarized, which seems to be considered of higher value then certified, as I have noticed on some earlier closed threads on this forum - do you think that will work?

Also, I never saw anywhere on the uk home office website that said it specifally had to be orginals and that certified copies were not okay. Is there somewhere that it notes this? Every bit of writing I have seen is very ambiguous and open to the interpreation of the reader.

thanks again


----------



## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Where were the certificates issued? Can't you get new originals, certified by the issuing authority? Surely you are talking about UK certificates, which you can order online and airmailed to Perth in about a week. This will solve all your problems. If necessary, delay your appointment.
Since those certificates are absolutely crucial in determining your eligibility for ancestry visa, they will demand the highest level of authenticity.


----------



## mallo (Nov 2, 2015)

well i am not sure. the document was issued in the UK, being a UK birth certificate of my grandmother. I will try and and find out if I can get a new original posted to me.

The issue is that my appointment is tomorrow, and I only just ralised that certified copies are not okay, given I never saw this stated on the uk home office website during the application process, just on this website.

I need to get in to the UK in a month, so time is an issue for me. I was going to get the fast track service. Potentially I can just cancel, get a refund (i am not sure if that is possible this far into the process) and apply for a youth mobility visa, which I am eligible for.


----------



## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

If you have all the details of the certificate: type (birth, marriage etc), name(s), date, where issued etc, it's just a simple question of going to GRO site (for England and Wales) at https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/ or Scottish GRO at How to Order an Official Extract from the Registers | National Records of Scotland and applying online. Using priority, you should get it within a week. Just re-book your appointment for biometrics - no need to cancel your application. With a bit of luck, you can have your visa within a month.
You can gamble by submitting copies, but I will be very surprised if they accept them. If you are lucky, they will ask for original certificates (which means going through the process just outlined, facing further delay) or just refuse your application and you have to start and pay again. Trouble with going for Tier 5 YMS visa is if you later want to stay longer and get settled, you have to return home and apply for ancestry visa. You can't switch your status within UK.


----------



## mallo (Nov 2, 2015)

Hi – just thought I’d touch base on this to let you know the outcome of my visa application, to assist anyone in a similar situation.
Today I received my Ancestry Visa in my passport successfully. I was sweating on this all week, I had my biometrics last Tuesday and paid for the priority service, but the outcome was positive in the end.
I did in fact submit certified copy of my grandmothers birth certificate and marriage certificate and originals of all the others (mine, my parents etc). Obviously I would highly recommend someone try and apply for an original copy of a birth certificate from the GRO in the UK. I ordered one a week ago and has yet to arrive and certainly didn’t arrive in time for my biometric appointment last week. Luckily I managed to get through anyway, which I put down to some info I found deep in the uk home office website, along with the fact I wrote a cover letter explaining in detail the reasons why I couldn’t get originals.


----------



## mallo (Nov 2, 2015)

This link explains some of the guidance around how an ECO might review and Ancestry visa application
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/uk-ancestry
and this link also explains a bit about how they make a decision. 
https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...b10/ecb10-making-a-decision-on-an-application
I think the key point here is the idea of ‘evidential flexibility’ allowing the ECO to pass generally compliant applications. See for example this quote in relation to missing documents “where the ECO judges that the applicant would be granted entry clearance should the information have been provided (for example where the applicant has a good travel history), the application should be resolved without sight of the documents”.


----------



## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

It's not binding on ECOs - just a general guidance. ECO will decide using their discretion and on balance of probabilities, so variations among ECOs are possible. You were fortunate. Others following your example may not be. Also it's usually quite easy to postpone your biometric appointment pending your document arrival.


----------



## mallo (Nov 2, 2015)

Joppa said:


> It's not binding on ECOs - just a general guidance. ECO will decide using their discretion and on balance of probabilities, so variations among ECOs are possible. You were fortunate. Others following your example may not be. Also it's usually quite easy to postpone your biometric appointment pending your document arrival.


Yep definitely fortunate, with regard to postponing the biometric appointment, my understanding is that you can only postpone and rebook within 30 days of your initial application. In my case, I made my initial application 3 weeks earlier for a very specific date, in which I was only going to be in Perth for a 2 week period. As such I wouldn't be able to rebook an appointment as it would extend beyond the 30 day period and I would have to begin the application process again, and pay the fees again. In Perth the visa centre is only open 2 times a week for half a day, so appointments are very limited. Also, I went into the appointment with full intentions of explaining this and rebooking, but the people there wouldn't have a bar of talking to me, any couldn't give me any advice about my situation.


----------



## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

I wasn't talking about your specific circumstances about your biometric appointment but as a general principle. People do rebook their appointment to suit. Even if you had to cancel your application and resubmit, you will get all your fees back so you won't lose out.
VAC staff don't give advice. They aren't employed by UKVI but a commercial firm VFS Global.


----------

