# Buying land in Portugal for off-grid living



## FrankBlack

I posted this on the Spanish section recently and have broadened my search to Portugal. 

I'm at the first stages of trying to find out about buying land and land regulations in Portugal. My hope is to find a piece of land with a natural water supply, that I can legally site a caravan on. As I know nothing yet about the best place to start looking or the pitfalls involved, your help and advice is appreciated. 

I'd also be grateful for any info on monthly/ yearly taxes I can expect as I'm trying to build a picture of what my monthly outgoings might be.

My ideal location would be one where the winters are frost-free.

Thanks.


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## omostra06

FrankBlack said:


> I posted this on the Spanish section recently and have broadened my search to Portugal.
> 
> I'm at the first stages of trying to find out about buying land and land regulations in Portugal. My hope is to find a piece of land with a natural water supply, that I can legally site a caravan on. As I know nothing yet about the best place to start looking or the pitfalls involved, your help and advice is appreciated.
> 
> I'd also be grateful for any info on monthly/ yearly taxes I can expect as I'm trying to build a picture of what my monthly outgoings might be.
> 
> My ideal location would be one where the winters are frost-free.
> 
> Thanks.


yearly tax should not be much if its just a bit of land under 100 euros approx

for frost free winters, you need to be south of the ic8 road that runs across the central region, above this, frost, snow and fog, 

to legally site a caravan, this is not straight forward, as any building/structiure(even a wooden house or caravan) you intend to live in fulltime, must be legal, have a habitation license, and if new, have full planning permisssion.

a lot of people do just buy land and "hide" a caravan or wooden house on it, hoping that the autherities dont see it and cause problems. some get away with it others get caught


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## FrankBlack

omostra06 said:


> yearly tax should not be much if its just a bit of land under 100 euros approx
> 
> for frost free winters, you need to be south of the ic8 road that runs across the central region, above this, frost, snow and fog,
> 
> to legally site a caravan, this is not straight forward, as any building/structiure(even a wooden house or caravan) you intend to live in fulltime, must be legal, have a habitation license, and if new, have full planning permisssion.
> 
> a lot of people do just buy land and "hide" a caravan or wooden house on it, hoping that the autherities dont see it and cause problems. some get away with it others get caught


Thanks, that's helpful. It sounds like a similar situation with regards to planning in the UK. Maybe not as bad. On the face of it, Spain appears to have less of a problem with caravans, but that's maybe because I haven't uncovered the real regulations yet!


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## goingoffthegrid

FrankBlack said:


> Thanks, that's helpful. It sounds like a similar situation with regards to planning in the UK. Maybe not as bad. On the face of it, Spain appears to have less of a problem with caravans, but that's maybe because I haven't uncovered the real regulations yet!


Hi Frank

The official answer from the town hall is that "caravans are being condoned at the moment"

I have also seen your post on off-grid asking for land in Spain; I can buy 2 or more parcelas of land of 1.000 m2 each at 1.000 euro each, 1 hour from Madrid.

Can you post your email address if interested?

I am also planning to move to spain within 2 months from now and go off grid


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## FrankBlack

goingoffthegrid said:


> Hi Frank
> 
> The official answer from the town hall is that "caravans are being condoned at the moment"
> 
> I have also seen your post on off-grid asking for land in Spain; I can buy 2 or more parcelas of land of 1.000 m2 each at 1.000 euro each, 1 hour from Madrid.
> 
> Can you post your email address if interested?
> 
> I am also planning to move to spain within 2 months from now and go off grid


Hi mate. I'm looking at the south at present, mainly for mild winters. I won't post my email address on the forum but I can PM you (or you me) and take it from there. Cheers.


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## FrankBlack

FrankBlack said:


> Hi mate. I'm looking at the south at present, mainly for mild winters. I won't post my email address on the forum but I can PM you (or you me) and take it from there. Cheers.


Tried to PM you but there's no option. If you haven't already, go to User CP > Edit Options to allow me to PM you. Or you can PM me your email address.


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## goingoffthegrid

FrankBlack said:


> Tried to PM you but there's no option. If you haven't already, go to User CP > Edit Options to allow me to PM you. Or you can PM me your email address.


Yes, I can not send or receive PM from users yet because I am new on this forum, that's why I asked you to post you email address


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## Steve68

My girlfriend and i are looking into buying some land hopefully in the next 6 months to be self sufficient and start up a small business. We want to be off grid. Can we buy a farm and convert the barn to live in, do we have to get a habitation licence for this? Would we need one if we are off grid?

Omostra06

Gekko is a great site you have we some very usefull information on it.


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## goingoffthegrid

Steve68 said:


> My girlfriend and i are looking into buying some land hopefully in the next 6 months to be self sufficient and start up a small business. We want to be off grid. Can we buy a farm and convert the barn to live in, do we have to get a habitation licence for this? Would we need one if we are off grid?
> 
> Omostra06
> 
> Gekko is a great site you have we some very usefull information on it.


If you want to live in a building you will need a habitation license for it. (the part of the building you want to live in), officially. However I don't think ALL buildings in Spain/Portugal where people live in have that license..


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## goingoffthegrid

goingoffthegrid said:


> Yes, I can not send or receive PM from users yet because I am new on this forum, that's why I asked you to post you email address



I just sent you a PM, I am now able to send and receive PM's


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## Steve68

goingoffthegrid said:


> If you want to live in a building you will need a habitation license for it. (the part of the building you want to live in), officially. However I don't think ALL buildings in Spain/Portugal where people live in have that license..


Thats what we have heard but we enquired about some land and the agent just said no, no explanation as to why. We have looked at a few with septic tanks so surely someones been living there.


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## canoeman

If the property or ruin was pre 1951 and not registered then your very unlikely to be able to get a habitation licence, you would need to put in a full renovation application which reguires time money and complying with current building regulations, which doesn't sound quite what your after.
At least you had an honest agent


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## Steve68

Ok Thanks Canoeman


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## omostra06

canoeman said:


> If the property or ruin was pre 1951 and not registered then your very unlikely to be able to get a habitation licence, you would need to put in a full renovation application which reguires time money and complying with current building regulations, which doesn't sound quite what your after.
> At least you had an honest agent


just to add alittle to canoeman's post, the habitation licence is required for all property after 1951, that was the cut off date, properties built before this date although they dont require a habitation license, they do require another document, which identifies the building as being built beforte 51 and exempts it from requiring the habitation license. you will need this other document/license to be able to live legaly in the property(all pre 51 properties require this) if the council are unsure of the date of your property they may send out a team to investigate the age of the property, if the house is in ruins or very bvad condition, no electric, water oroof for example, they may issue a document saying that this property is subhabitable, and therefore cant be lived in until a project has been approved and the renovation work carried out, only then will you get a habitation license or an exsemtion documemt.
a lot of people have bee caught out when buying older ruined properties, thinking they can just live in them, or repair them themselves, only to find out they will need full planning permission,

even if you are visiting a property that looks like a proper house, septic tank etc, it still could be subhabitable, and the owner just went ahead with work without pernmission, in some cases, people offer for sale farm buildings, barns etc, as houses, (they may even look like a house) these types of agricultural buildings will never get a license to be used to live in, without full planning approval with changes to bring it up to the latest building standards.
a lot of people unknownly buy these properties thinking (or being misslead) they are houses, for habitation. when they are infact farm buildings.

even your lawyer may not see anything wrong and alert you, people do buy farm buildings and farm land, so you neeed to make sure you and your lawyer knoiw that its a house you are buying, 

Very important to see all the property documents before you part with any money.


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## Steve68

Thanks Omostra. Is it possible to do all the work myself on any property we buy as im in the building trade here in the UK and just learn the PT building regs ?
Thanks Steve


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## canoeman

Steve68 said:


> Thanks Omostra. Is it possible to do all the work myself on any property we buy as im in the building trade here in the UK and just learn the PT building regs ?
> Thanks Steve


Very much depends on the work. 

If you have to get a licence or apply for planning building permission, you must use a registered builder and or tradesman. 
You could of course strike a deal with builder that'll you'll supply your labour.

You should make yourself familiar with what you can or can't do without licences or permission, you also need to check with each Camra, although their all supposed to work the same they don't.

At the end of the day you need to end up with a property that is legal otherwise you waste whatever money you've put into it.


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## goingoffthegrid

canoeman said:


> Very much depends on the work.
> 
> If you have to get a licence or apply for planning building permission, you must use a registered builder and or tradesman.
> You could of course strike a deal with builder that'll you'll supply your labour.
> 
> You should make yourself familiar with what you can or can't do without licences or permission, you also need to check with each Camra, although their all supposed to work the same they don't.
> 
> At the end of the day you need to end up with a property that is legal otherwise you waste whatever money you've put into it.


So, when I am not a registered "builder" I can not build my own home based on a permit?

I have heard that I would need to get an architect to sign off and then I can build myself?


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## canoeman

goingoffthegrid said:


> So, when I am not a registered "builder" I can not build my own home based on a permit?
> 
> I have heard that I would need to get an architect to sign off and then I can build myself?


No definitely not. 
When planning permission is granted the "permission" is only given to a Builder with the Correct Licence, Insurance, Plant etc not to you as the owner.

What do you mean by "based on a permit"?


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## goingoffthegrid

canoeman said:


> No definitely not.
> When planning permission is granted the "permission" is only given to a Builder with the Correct Licence, Insurance, Plant etc not to you as the owner.
> 
> What do you mean by "based on a permit"?


What I assumed was, that when I have registered a piece of land to my name, and want to build something on that, I get planning permission in my name, and either I or anyone else, whether or not they are a "builder" can build that structure when it's built according to the building code?

And my architect told me I would only need him to sign off when requesting the building permit and when the building is ready as he will inspect the building afterwards and will declare that it has been built according to the building code?

But what you say is that I have to get a "builder" then they are the only one allowed to do the work?


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## canoeman

I'm afraid you've assumed wrong, yes the permission is in your name but Only a Registered Builder with the correct licence etc can be given the "licence" Licenca da Obras to do the build.
The system is very different to UK.

Architect, well he's telling you a load of porkies or presuming you know about the rest of it.

If you did build yourself you would NOT get the vital Ficha Tecnica or Habitation Licence, in which case the build would be illegal and you could well be compelled to demolish it.

You might be able to strike some sort of deal supplying labour but the "builder" is responsible to complete the work to specification and price.

Just a couple of more tips to add to your knowledge, when planning Permission is granted it is valid for 1 year from that date, you can ONLY extend it by 1 year, but you must apply it is not automatic.

If you do not start the build within this 2 year window, you have to submit a brand new project, apart from the cost and time there is always the possibility that you might not get permission the second time round, for a variety of reasons, fire zoning, change to DPM etc.

If your contemplating a build you should make certain you have finances in place, builds should be completed within ??2 years, if not additional Licences have to be purchased


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## Steve68

If i was going to build a wooden lodge on the land do i need planning and use a builder or is it classed the same as a yurt or caravan?
Sorry moved on from the house abit, assuming know the house has a habitation licence


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## canoeman

Do you want a legal wooden lodge? or is_ this a wooden building that might be used for something else_? because the answers are very different.


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## Steve68

The lodge would be for guests to try and have an extra income, we have a few other ideas but that depends on the land we buy.


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## canoeman

Then it should be within the law, you might consider yurts where the same restrictions don't apply but that also throws up some other issues. if your talking about buying land only for this sort of project then you need to be extremely careful you would get the necessary permissions. Or your buying within a Camra that is specifically allowing this sort of enterprise.


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## Steve68

Thanks Canoeman
We want to use the land as a farm/quinta still make wine, do the olives, fruit and grow all outr own veg and have chickens so any other lodge/yurt would be either tucked away or on some fallow ground. Were looking at loads of different possibilities, even looked into the domes which my Mrs likes the look of, but the main aim first is going to have to be getting a place that has or we can get a habitation licence on and get some food growing cause i likes me food


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## omostra06

just to add to this, any structure that is to be lived in must be legal and registered, 
on a bit of land with no buildings already on it, this can be very difficult and costly to get. as it would require a project to be submitted,(approx one year) you would then have to have it built to meet latest regs,(by a registered builder, as has been mentioned previously) and then be signed off by the arcitect and the engineer, the engineer also has to fill in a book of works, sort of record of the build, all the way through the process.

however, and in my opinion a far easier route, is to buy a run down property, that is already regisitered and legal, then just carry out a diy renovation, you can in this case do a lot of the work yourself, as in most cases(depending on the level and type of work) no planing will be required, therefore no arcitect and engineer and no council involvement.

I have been through the process involving building a house using a full project and its no easy task, especialy if you dont speak portuguese, required for the 20 or so meetings you will need to make with council planners, architect and engineers.

although at the end of all the hassle you should have a property worth a lot more than you laid out. so its good business,

A lot of people choose to just build or rebuild illegaly, leaving them with a property that is almost impossible to sell on in the future, worth a lots less than the money laid out! why would anyone choose this route, but it would shock you how many expats do just this. leaving them in a right mess at the end of it


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## Steve68

Thanks Omostra06
I read your journey on another site so i understand how you have come through it all. All the properties we want to come out and look at we have asked the agent that we want to see the habitation licence when we veiw the property if possible so that way if they know there isnt one they wont waste there time or ours, Hopefully!


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## omostra06

Steve68 said:


> Thanks Omostra06
> I read your journey on another site so i understand how you have come through it all. All the properties we want to come out and look at we have asked the agent that we want to see the habitation licence when we veiw the property if possible so that way if they know there isnt one they wont waste there time or ours, Hopefully!


i agree always best to see the paperwork for a house before wasting any time on a house that might not be legal or even be able to be sold!

have you looked at the tips section?
http://www.expatforum.com/expats/po...s-living-portugal/17054-tips-home-buyers.html


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## MarcoCarrico

This is actually quite simple, every construction despite its use or construction material must be licenced, the other story is that you dont need a licence for caravans or wooden houses that are not using the soil, that is it must be on pillars and movable.


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## FrankBlack

arq.MarcoCarrico said:


> This is actually quite simple, every construction despite its use or construction material must be licenced, the other story is that you dont need a licence for caravans or wooden houses that are not using the soil, that is it must be on pillars and movable.


Finally, someone has actually answered one of the questions that prompted me to start this thread! Thank you Marco!

2nd question is what taxes rustic/ country land owners have to pay. I'll be in a mobile home (with wheels), growing my own food, with a natural water supply and non-mains electricity.


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## canoeman

Your original question was "where I can legally site a caravan on" which is not the same as legally live in it.
Water, you'll be extremely lucky to find land that has running water or a well that runs 365 days that is suitable and safe, you really require a bore hole and that requires a licence and electricity.

Rates, I currently own 2 plots, both have areas within the DPM, therefore a mix of "urban & rustic" with a slightly higher value than "rustic" land. 
Rates are based on the registered value with the tax office
So 
Plot 1 =1760m2 value €3350 rates €13
Plot 2 = 5400m2 value €9970 rates €39.88 so "rustic" land is not going to break the bank!


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## MarcoCarrico

FrankBlack said:


> Finally, someone has actually answered one of the questions that prompted me to start this thread! Thank you Marco!
> 
> 2nd question is what taxes rustic/ country land owners have to pay. I'll be in a mobile home (with wheels), growing my own food, with a natural water supply and non-mains electricity.


the tax is called IMI both for rustic and urban lands but the it is indeed a lot cheaper to own a rustic land than a urban land. To know how exactly how much you have to pay you need to go to the finances department because Im an architect


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## MarcoCarrico

canoeman said:


> Your original question was "where I can legally site a caravan on" which is not the same as legally live in it.
> Water, you'll be extremely lucky to find land that has running water or a well that runs 365 days that is suitable and safe, you really require a bore hole and that requires a licence and electricity.


you can legally live anywhere you want, as long as its your property, you can go camping in your own property all year long.

you can also get water and electricity without having a legal house on your plot


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## omostra06

I think you will find that this is not the case, and is indeed a bit misleading.

you cant just live anywhere you want. if you are living full time in a dwelling then it needs to be legal and registered for that purpose. inorder to register the structure it needs to meet planning regs.

a caravan or tent is unlikely to meet these requirements.

you can of course get water and electric connected to rustic land,(agricultural supply) but can be very expensive to bring on site, and this type of connection is not permitted for domestic use.

caravans and indeed wooden houses can be stored legaly on your property, but if you intend to live in them its a different matter, regardless of their connection with the "soil" you will require planning permission and a license if its a habitable structure.


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## feldo

*Land off grid*



FrankBlack said:


> I posted this on the Spanish section recently and have broadened my search to Portugal.
> 
> I'm at the first stages of trying to find out about buying land and land regulations in Portugal. My hope is to find a piece of land with a natural water supply, that I can legally site a caravan on. As I know nothing yet about the best place to start looking or the pitfalls involved, your help and advice is appreciated.
> 
> I'd also be grateful for any info on monthly/ yearly taxes I can expect as I'm trying to build a picture of what my monthly outgoings might be.
> 
> My ideal location would be one where the winters are frost-free.
> 
> Thanks.


Well mate I bought a piece of land with a ruin on it on the algarve, it also has a stream that runs through the property, i have a caravan on site supposedly whilst the renovations are taking place, never had any problems as yet.
I have also built a hydro turbine unit that takes energy from the stream and converts to 240 mains like power, the pmg is capable of producing 2.2kw of power and is plenty sufice for all my needs. The rates for my land and ruin are 74 euros per year payable in two installments.
Stream comes down from the hills of monchique, never runs dry, 24/7 free :clap2ower.:clap2:


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## FrankBlack

feldo said:


> Well mate I bought a piece of land with a ruin on it on the algarve, it also has a stream that runs through the property, i have a caravan on site supposedly whilst the renovations are taking place, never had any problems as yet.
> I have also built a hydro turbine unit that takes energy from the stream and converts to 240 mains like power, the pmg is capable of producing 2.2kw of power and is plenty sufice for all my needs. The rates for my land and ruin are 74 euros per year payable in two installments.
> Stream comes down from the hills of monchique, never runs dry, 24/7 free :clap2ower.:clap2:


Fantastic. That sounds like the ideal setup Feldo. Thanks for the information mate. having opened this thread, I actually got the impression that a setup like yours (very similar to what I had in mind) would attract all sorts of problems. It sounded like I'd be facing the same kind of bureaucratic crap that happens here in the UK if you want to start living outside of the (taxable, exploitable) mainstream. Your experience is making me think twice. cheers for that.


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## canoeman

If rates are under €250 then they have to be paid in 1 installment by the end of April.

Only if they are above €250 can they be paid in 2 installments April and September.


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## feldo

*installments*



canoeman said:


> If rates are under €250 then they have to be paid in 1 installment by the end of April.
> 
> Only if they are above €250 can they be paid in 2 installments April and September.


Your right it is one installment, I thought with it being so cheap i had another coming in sept, last year i got fined for late payment and i think thats what i paid in Sept.


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## irpsit

Hello!

I look to buy land in Portugal. I have only about 10.000 euros to spend.

I seek to grow my food, and have some sort of shelter, and don´t be so much bothered by legal risks. 

Should I buy land without a ruin or with a bad ruin, for about 5000 euros, and live in a caravan or mobile house? Better this than risking setting there a cheap wood cabin?

What if I buy a ruin that looks like an habitable house. I could still sleep under its roof, even if it wouldn´t probably meet the habitation license requirements. 

Is it really possible to find a house with a habitation license, for under 20000 euros?
Many thanks

Paulo


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## travelling-man

irpsit said:


> Hello!
> 
> I look to buy land in Portugal. I have only about 10.000 euros to spend.
> 
> I seek to grow my food, and have some sort of shelter, and don´t be so much bothered by legal risks.
> 
> Should I buy land without a ruin or with a bad ruin, for about 5000 euros, and live in a caravan or mobile house? Better this than risking setting there a cheap wood cabin?
> 
> What if I buy a ruin that looks like an habitable house. I could still sleep under its roof, even if it wouldn´t probably meet the habitation license requirements.
> 
> Is it really possible to find a house with a habitation license, for under 20000 euros?
> Many thanks
> 
> Paulo


I'd recommend you not be quite so casual about "legal risks" because if you don't stay on the right side of the law they will sooner or later catch up with you.

As regards some type of shelter: You'll need more than just a shelter because even the warmest parts of the country can get very cold & wet at some times of the year and the areas that have cheaper land often have very cold & wet winters. 

Is it "possible to find a house with a habitation licence for under €20k"? - Hmmm. Well I guess it's not impossible but nor is it very probable........ at least, not a habitable one with enough land to give you self sufficiency. 

Quite honestly and without wishing to rain on your parade, a fair number of people come to Portugal with a smallish budget and hope to grow enough to feed themselves and sell the surplus at markets to give them enough cash to get by on but it's very hard work, very unstable and as you can buy a kilo of many/most veggies for something like €1 it means most people fail and return home. 

The same can be said of most people who come here in the hope of earning a living out of things like alternative medicine, reiki, yurting, glamping & all that silly arsed stuff like holistic kak & ear candles etc........ which is why it's always so easy to buy stuffed up old vans & campers and rarely used 2nd hand yurts etc! lol.


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## irpsit

Hello travelling-man,

I am actually Portuguese and I just want to return to my homeland.

I have been gardening since I am a kid, and that is my passion, so I would like to own some land and house in Portugal to plant a food forest. I have no illusions regarding the hardship of making a living, or the dangers of not being legal.

My budget is sadly limited, as I don´t have more. 10.000 to 15.000 euros is about my limit.

Last year I actually lived near Tabua for 5 months in a borrowed rural property, but it was from the family of my ex, and then I had to move out of it. Though hardwork, growing your own food is not impossible, and neither is starting some sort of business. And actually my plan is going on seasonal jobs across Europe, for a part of the year. So this is not the main point I want to ask for help.

Regarding shelter and cold: I have done camping and caravan in frosty nights in Portugal; let´s set aside the confort issue, my question is whether it is risky legally to sleep on a caravan permanently, but of course I would prefer having a house long-term, either a cheap tiny house or renovating a ruin.

So aware of these issues, my major question is this:

While it is easy to buy land in central Portugal, for instance 1000m2 for just 3000 euros, my major challenge is how to do it regarding shelter! 

1) Can I buy a ruin with a roof for under 20k euros with an habitation license, or work with it under that price?
2) How much does it cost to apply for renovation of a moderately good shaped ruin and getting its planning permision and habitation license? 
3) Or do people often risk rebuilding illegally a ruin themselves? 
4) Should I worry about setting permanently a yurt or a caravan in my own rural land? Because I doubt I can get a habitation license for a caravan or a yurt!
5) If I want to install a wooden cabin later, is it easier to do it in a rustic land with a ruin, or sometimes not possible? How much would that legalization (for a habitation license) cost?

I only try to find solutions for these major challenges. As I detailed above, earning an income is not my top concern, rather getting a legal shelter under my budget seems to be the most complicate of my challenges.

Many thanks!

And I deeply appreciate your input on this travelling-man, or anyone else helping, for that matter!





travelling-man said:


> I'd recommend you not be quite so casual about "legal risks" because if you don't stay on the right side of the law they will sooner or later catch up with you.
> 
> As regards some type of shelter: You'll need more than just a shelter because even the warmest parts of the country can get very cold & wet at some times of the year and the areas that have cheaper land often have very cold & wet winters.
> 
> Is it "possible to find a house with a habitation licence for under €20k"? - Hmmm. Well I guess it's not impossible but nor is it very probable........ at least, not a habitable one with enough land to give you self sufficiency.
> 
> Quite honestly and without wishing to rain on your parade, a fair number of people come to Portugal with a smallish budget and hope to grow enough to feed themselves and sell the surplus at markets to give them enough cash to get by on but it's very hard work, very unstable and as you can buy a kilo of many/most veggies for something like €1 it means most people fail and return home.
> 
> The same can be said of most people who come here in the hope of earning a living out of things like alternative medicine, reiki, yurting, glamping & all that silly arsed stuff like holistic kak & ear candles etc........ which is why it's always so easy to buy stuffed up old vans & campers and rarely used 2nd hand yurts etc! lol.


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## travelling-man

With that kind of budget and if you plan to move around for part of evey year, you might consider renting - I certainly can't see how you'd successfully maintain/protect crops with that particular plan but that said, I'm the worst gardener in the whole of Christendom. lol

Is it risky to try to sleep in a caravan/unlicenced habitation on a permanent basis...... No. Not at all........ until you get caught and ordered to clear the land OR if you have a forest fire and the Bombeiros don't know you're there and so can't come and protect you........ then it suddenly becomes a VERY big problem. - Putting it another way, you might get away with it for a longish period but there's no doubt that sooner or later, you'll get caught at the very least.

Oh and another problem you'll be faced with is sewage & other waste disposal because many Camaras here take pollution issues quite seriously, especially where rivers & water supplies are concerned. - I once found a lovely piece of land at a very good price with several ruins on it that bordered a really good trout river on two sides and had an onsite meeting with the Camara people who told me I wouldn't be allowed to use ANY concrete or cement in the rebuild because of pollution concerns. 

Can you buy a ruin for under €20k? - Possibly but it won't be easy and it won't be very good to say the very least.... especially if you also need to buy the tools to work the land. 

If you buy land registered as Rustica it's unlikely you'll be able to build any kind of permanent human habitation on it without changing that classification and that'd be a slow & probably expensive process. 

As mentioned previously, you're not the first person to try it & you certainly won't be the last but most fail, lose what money they had and have to leave but all that said, I wish you luck & hope it works out for you.


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## MrBife

Why not take a look at wwoof organisation - it seems to me to remove the drudge - more info easily found via a Google search

_WWOOF links people who want to volunteer on organic farms with farms that are looking for volunteer help. The WWOOF arrangement is not paid, it is volunteer help in exchange for food, accommodation and learning opportunities in organic farming.
_


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## irpsit

Hi thanks for both your replies and input,

I have done woofing many times - even worked professionally in an organic farm for 4 years. Now it is time for me to step ahead and to have my own land on which I grow my own food (something I have been doing for a long time). Only that way I am able to have the freedom to do the agroforestry project I plan to do. I don't expect to make a profit out of it, I just pursuit my passion.

Of course buying land for doing this is rather cheap (at least inland in central Portugal) and many properties are under 10k (especially without ruin or building permission). The challenge is having permanent shelter and in a land that allows it, so I can go there every once in a while or even move there.

I don't need to be all year in the land. If I just plant fruit trees, then it doesn't need muh care throughout the summer, except that the land needs regular clearing to comply with the law (but often in rural Portugal nice neighbours can do that for you).

Having a permanent caravan seems a feasible option, because I can also remove it, or claim I am just camping there for a while. And I reckon this works better if I am in a remote location, rather away from the crowds, and I have a good relationship with the neighbours and with the camara people (something especially important in rural Portugal, but which for me should be easier as I am Portuguese myself and understand well the Portuguese way of thinking). Still trouble can always happen of course. What would exactly happen? I would have to move my caravan away for a while, claiming I was just there on my hollidays.

Setting a cabin seems a more risky option, because it is not a mobile structure.

Sewage? Yes I know the laws for it, but my own experience authorities are still rather loose with it. I know so many people with compost toilets in rural Portugal and old septic tanks and that never had problems. This (a compost toilet) would work with a caravan, but with a permanent cabin, it would be much harder to convince authorities.

Of course, ideally I would get land with the possibility of making a legal licensed house on it, one day, but not anytime soon, due to my current limited budget.

So my plan would be to buy land this year, luckly with a ruin that would have habitation license and just renovation necessary. I would let the ruin untouched for a while and set my caravan there, while I plan fruit trees and go abroad to earn some more, in order that one day I could make a legal house. Or it could be that the authorities, wanting that young portuguese families move to their "freguesias", they would tolerate our shelter construction, I know of cases like this.


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## longbow

It's possible to do what you want, but here is a different way of looking at it. I've got my rustic land with a building which nobody would bother about me living on at this time but politics as they are who knows about the future, so I brought a cottage in the village near by.
The cottage was structurally sound with a new roof, inside a ruin, it cost including notary taxes and everything 11000€ but with it came another half acre of land ( 2000sq m ) enough for you to make a start, the land has olives and fruit trees so everything you want, then when you are here and known you will hear about land for sale or rent.
I hope this is of use to you and possible give you further ideas, I would look for something like this as it gives you what you want but also keeps you legal


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## land Portugal

*land in portugal*

Hi! I own some beautiful land in Portugal which i'm trying to sell.
Portugal needs people to return to the countryside.
I've just made my website with the several properties.
All the land is located in the middle of Portugal in a privileged place near a quiet small village but 5km from the main town. It's 1h30 from Lisbon and 2h30 from Porto.
​The weather here is more temperate than in the south or north, it's less humid than near the sea, hot but not too hot, cold but not so cold as to snow or frost.
if you want , take a look at my facebook Land Portugal
Thanks


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