# Back in Orizaba - Anyone Know Anything About MAPFRE??



## Howler (Apr 22, 2013)

Dear Gang -

Well, everything was going great for us this year in Mexico. My wife's project finished within her budget with resounding success & support in the community she was working with. We spent an extra day or two in Orizaba so she could teach & work with the World Vision area leaders; and we even got some very important dental work done that would have cost thousands of $$ (and time, even with insurance coverage) NOB. From Orizaba we went to Martinez de la Torre to spend a few days with family & to look around. The fair was in town which made things even more exciting. After a satisfying visit there, off we were headed out of country all the way to Canada, then Washington DC for a couple of seminars & functions that Felisa had to teach & participate in. "On the way" is about as far as we got...

We were over an hour into the trip & talking about spending the night in the port before making for the long shot to the border. As usual, the drive was a matter of dodging & merging with traffic on-coming & from behind. Somewhere past El Farallon (El Viejon, near Palma Sola) & north of Veracruz, I had to brake hard for a car in front of us who was also braking for one in front of HIM, in a long line at a set of topes. I had just managed to miss hitting the guy in front of me; and just as I was breathing a sigh of relief, we were hit from behind! By then the cars in front of me had moved on & as I looked in the rearview, I was horrified to see the car behind me (a VW Pointer) looking like a smoking, leaking, totaled mess. I never even heard any brakes from behind us - they certainly were NOT following closely when they hit us!

When I got out, I was amazed to see that all we had was a big wallop in the back of our Infiniti (QX4), but nothing that would actually stop us from travelling. Their car looked like a total loss with the engine compartment completely pushed in, like an accordion, almost into the passenger compartment. A young lady came up to me and asked if we were all right; I asked the same and all seemed to be okay, except a little shaken. We had our seatbelts on – but I was better braced for the impact than my wife; however, the folks in back of us had a baby without a car seat, plus no airbags that deployed. Except for a slightly bloody nose, the baby was okay - Thank God! We wouldn't feel much of the impact until the next day.

The next thing she asked was if I had insurance... uh, yeah; she affirmed the same. Somewhere in the midst of this exchange, a municipal policeman happened upon us and was great help in contacting our insurance & going through the voicemail choices to get to a receptionist/dispatcher. He also helped direct traffic & called for an ambulance & Federal Transito to the scene of the accident. As I began to survey the situation more clearly, I was aware of how it should play out NOB, but I wasn't so sure about how blame would be assessed in Mexico. 

One thing I realized, was that I hadn't paid full attention to who was driving the other car... it was the young lady who approached me (seemingly from the passenger side of her vehicle), but I also noticed a kid of about 17 years old who was also among them. They seemed to try to keep him away from us, and he had a real "hang-dog" look about him, on top of it all. I had already noticed this vehicle driving very aggressively behind us on a couple of occasions, but again, I wasn't focused on the driver. Either way, I felt they had enough problems to deal with as far as their car, their insurance and, most likely, blame for the incident. Somewhere in their comments was a mention that their father was also an insurance adjuster... then my antennae went up (and my mouth went shut).

The municipal cop was very good in helping us... and assured us that in Mexico "el que pega is quien paga", which started to put my mind a little more at ease. Still, he said that we would have to wait for the insurance adjusters (for both vehicles) to get there before we could move the cars or even leave the scene... and also for the Federal Transito cop to get there. The ambulance crew did a great job of checking everyone out & directing traffic until the Federal got there. He'd just barely got out of his car when the other folks pulled him aside for a word in private before I could get there. I don't know what was said, or how, but it didn't look like it worked in their favor.

As I approached them, the lady seemed to be glowering at the cop, to which he replied that there was no two ways about it... "Uds. pegaron a ellos, y ellos son los víctimas". She was very displeased. This is the kicker: He went on to say that, because we both had insurance he was "going to behave today and not give out any tickets". He then got back in his car and said that he would check back later when the insurance adjusters were present to see if there was anything else they needed from him... then he disappeared. By then the municipal cop bid us farewell along with the ambulance crew, and it was just us along with a few local spectators. The other family (the young lady, the kid, their mother & the baby) separated themselves & went looking for a bathroom.

A family from across the road invited us to come rest under their porch & offered us some food. They fished & ran a small café to make ends meet, and were very hospitable. By then it was getting dark, a storm was brooding, and we still had no idea when the adjusters would get there. The Federal had us move the vehicles off the road, so passing traffic was not a concern... all we could do was wait. Just as our host was about to serve our food, a young kid came & told us that one of the adjusters had arrived. Geez, just in time... Eventually, we did get to eat after all was said & done; then visited & entertained with the family until past midnight. They even offered us a room to sleep in, but we felt we needed continue to Orizaba. Otherwise, it would have been a great pleasure to accept their continued hospitality.

When we went to see who had arrived; it turned out that the family's father was already there, so they had another vehicle to wait in... and great (for us), our insurance adjuster was there. He started the process of examining our policy & asking questions... what happened, names, address, etc... Somewhere in the middle of this, the other adjuster got there & began to do the same with the other family, then started speaking with our adjuster. The Federal passed by again and was rushed by the young lady with her adjuster - only to be rebuffed again and put in their places. He got out of his car & spoke to our adjuster, then the other, gave some details & info to both of them; then left again.

The upshot of all this was: 

1) We were VERY lucky that nobody was seriously hurt; 
2) That all the police officials "behaved" (no tickets, no mordidas);
3) The adjusters were very professional in dealing with the apparent details of what happened;
4) We chose to return to Orizaba where our vehicle could be evaluated & fixed;
5) Our adjuster said the insurance (MAPFRE) would pay our hotel & meals while we waited;
6) MAPFRE set up appointments for us to be examined by a doctor when we got to Orizaba;
7) We were given a business name & contact for where to get our SUV evaluated & fixed.

So we're back in Orizaba at the same hotel, among the same people that treated us so well when we were here before. This was the main reason I chose to have our vehicle taken care of here. However, we have no idea for how long it will take to get the pieces in from the US to fix our Infiniti; or what limits there may be on the insurance coverage of our room & meals while holed up & waiting. We were told that it could easily be a month or more!! Felisa has cancelled her plans in Toronto & will arrange to fly to Washington DC, if possible, from Veracruz. We'll make the most of our stay here, just hoping that we'll be able to get back to Oklahoma before the school years starts for Felisa on August the 18th.

Anybody with some helpful suggestions or details for how to deal with MAPFRE would be greatly appreciated. Our mission today is to make contact with the local office in order to better acquaint ourselves with what to expect of their coverage, limits, time, etc. So far the best of the situation has seemed to play out for us, let's just hope our good luck continues. Also - THANK GOD I GOT THE INSURANCE POLICY AT THE BORDER!! I have always done so, but this time - curiously - the salesperson told me that I shouldn't worry about it, that I probably wouldn't need it....!! Again, thank God that I decided otherwise!!

I also hope to meet Dan & Carmen while here; anyone else can give us a holler or visit at the Hotel Mision, #307 in Orizaba. Here's hoping all is well with you...


Sincerely,


Howler
(Dan & Felisa)


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## Waller52 (Jun 17, 2015)

Glad to hear all are OK, take care.


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

Good luck with your car..we had a similar accident and were rearended by a huge truck. We were able to drive to Guadalajara and it was lucky we lived nearby, it took the dealer 6 weeks to fix the car...


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## Howler (Apr 22, 2013)

citlali said:


> Good luck with your car..we had a similar accident and were rearended by a huge truck. We were able to drive to Guadalajara and it was lucky we lived nearby, it took the dealer 6 weeks to fix the car...


Oh no! That's not what my wife wanted to hear!! What was your insurance company?


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

My insurrance co was great and we had the same insurance as the truck´s so it made it easy.It is AXA, the problem is that we did not get the part for 3 weeks into Guadalajara. It was a brand new Mazda and the back and all the windows were destroyed.
The insurrance picked up everything , we had zero problem with them.


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## Howler (Apr 22, 2013)

citlali said:


> My insurrance co was great and we had the same insurance as the truck´s so it made it easy.It is AXA,


Whereas there were two different insurance companies involved, everything will have to be run through MAPFRE to the other company. I wish I got the name of the other company, but we can get that tomorrow when we talk to MAPFRE again. Our problem with the parts we need is that Infiniti only manufactured sedans in Mexico, so the SUV parts will have to come from the US. So far everyone has said that it will be a "slow" process, without an idea for how long it will take.

Glad you came out of your accident okay and were able to make it home to wait for the repairs on your car. Me? I'm not complaining - I'm glad to be here, even if it was unplanned. I was commenting to my wife today, that to me it's an advantage of being retired & flexible - you can make the most of such events & later have plenty of stories & adventures to tell. The only thing I miss or worry about is our cats & dog at home. They can always tell when we are going somewhere, and are so welcoming when we get back. They'll just have to "rule the roost" a little longer.

I guess now would be a good time to research & compare auto insurance companies for the next time we make the trip down here. I've heard of AXA & Sanbourn's; MAPFRE just happened to be the one we've always seen at the border. I'm sure there are others, and some that are better than others. Any input would be welcome in my research!


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## Howler (Apr 22, 2013)

I still can't get over how lucky we were about the Federal Transito, compared to other stories I've read about them here in the forums. This guy, clearly, could have tried to screw us but good & for a lot of pesos if he had been so inclined!


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

There are bad eggs but we had no problem with them in our accident either. I had problems with them in another accident so you just never know.


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## Azuledos (Jan 21, 2010)

You seem to have come out of the incident in pretty good shape. A few weeks ago we were stopped on the boulevard between Cordoba and Fortin about ten blocks from home, about to make a left turn, so the car was angled a bit to the left. Another car plowed into the driver's side rear door, almost pushing it into the car, and also damaging the front door. This all occurred about 8:30am on a Friday.

Dan got out and asked the other driver, a young woman in her early 20's or so, if anyone was hurt. No such misfortune, just material damages. Both cars were driveable, so he backed our Ford out of traffic. A local_ transito_ cop showed up, helped us by calling our insurance company (Qualitas) and made sure the other driver also had coverage and had called ther adjuster. He then went off, with both driver's licenses, saying he'd be back when the adjusters arrived.

Our vehicle sustained much more damage--the other one only had a impacted bumper and some loose trim. Despite the fact that cars turn left there all the time, we noted that boulevard center plantings, a slight curve to the left with the road rising up an incline would make it easy for a driver, traveling fast and not paying full attention to come up on a left-turner too late to stop. Needless to say, we don't turn left there any more.

We were told the _choque_ was our fault, being the party stopped in a thru lane. A local friend (a Fortin ex-_policia_) said that the car bearing a non-local plate almost always is at "fault." When we started reading your post we expected the same ending, and we are thankful for your good fortune. As in your case, everyone acted in a responsible manner. Both licenses were returned, no _multas_ resulted, and we were free to leave after about three hours at the side of the road. As we only have liability coverage, our policy covered damage to the other car and we would have to pay for fixing ours.

From home we called our friend Frank, who knew of a local body shop which had recently repainted their car. Dan & Frank drove to the _taller_ where we got an estimate for the repair, dependent on getting two replacment doors. Turns out Frank knew of a junk auto parts dealer a few blocks from home, and we actually were able to find two used doors fr that 2006 model (one stripped down, and the other complete wth glass but with crank-style window) that afternoon. By 5pm we had the car and the two doors at the shop, with a promise to get the job done in ten or so working days.

Less than a week later, the shop called to tell us the car was ready. We bussed over the next morning to find everything back in place, the power windows fully functional, and the paint job like new. All in less than a week, and for about US$800, including the doors (which cost US$100 each).

Since you are delayed in Orizaba, yes, let's still get together. If a long hotel stay in the city wears thin, Frank & Ania's BnB between Fortin and Cordoba is comfortable and very affordable.

Dan & Carmen


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

Yes they have 2 cabins and the garden is wonderful.


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## Howler (Apr 22, 2013)

Well, it looks like our luck may be running out... in, of all things, dealing with MAPFRE - the insurer of our vehicle! We're still counting our blessings on how nobody was seriously hurt and the "minimal" damage to our vehicle (in that we can still drive it while awaiting repairs). We spent over 2 hours in the MAPFRE office in Cordoba yesterday, "speaking" & being passed around on the telephone to no less than 6 people - without getting a single concrete answer to our questions. To the manager's great credit, she said that she didn't handle tourist policy claims, but stuck with us through the whole telephone ordeal - even taking a part in the conversations with the various representatives that we were referred to.

Our questions were very basic:
1) What were the limits of reimbursement for our lodging & meals?
2) How would we process our receipts & claims for reimbursement of the above?
3) Would they pay or extend our auto policy for the rest of the time we would have to stay in Mexico?
4) Is there a ball-park idea of how long the process would take to order & receive the parts, then do repairs?

On our way to Cordoba, yesterday, we stopped by the VW shop where we took our vehicle for inspection & estimate of damages. The (once friendly) gerente almost literally brushed us off - in classical Mexican bureaucratic style - saying that they were "cotizando las piezas" but that they were waiting to order the parts. Upon our arrival at the Cordoba MAPFRE office, one of the first things we found out was that the parts were still not found or available. MAPFRE said that the last resource for them was to try to find the parts in or through Puebla. If not found there, then there were other "options" that could be exercised on our behalf. Uh-huh, suuuuuuure!

From yesterday's morass, we were told - FIRST - that they would only cover 3 days of lodging & meals. When I quoted from their policy book that they would cover up to $600 USD or up to 10 days of lodging & meals, the guy backtracked, hemmed & hawed - then passed us off to another representative who confirmed my statement; SECOND - we were told that they would have an answer for us "tomorrow" on if the parts were available in Mexico or not; THIRD - if the parts weren't available in Mexico then they would pay a lump sum for the damages, parts & repair costs so we could take care of it in the US; THIRD - if the parts could be found, but the process would take longer than "a couple of weeks" then they would put us both on a flight back home to the US while they would continue to process our claim & repair the vehicle... then fly us back to Mexico to pick up the vehicle once it was repaired to our satisfaction. Other than that, we still had no concrete answers about reimbursement or processing of our claims for lodging, meals & additional auto insurance coverage while still in Mexico. In typical fashion we were told that we would receive several phone calls "tomorrow" with all the answers to our questions & options/instructions for what to expect, next.

This morning (so far), it turns out that ALL the information (above) that we were given is BOGUS!! We received a call this morning from the regional manager in Veracruz who is processing our claim. First came an admonition for not contacting MAPFRE within 72 hours. That was immediately blunted with the answer that I called directly from the scene of the accident - which was why I had a claims number already established. Why weren't we in Veracruz where the office for processing tourist policy claims take place. We were told by the accident adjustor that we could go "anywhere in the Republic" we wanted to wait on the process - but we chose Orizaba because we were told there was a MAPFRE office there. From there it went downhill quickly. She informed us that because we were not "gravely" injured, there would be no coverage for lodging, meals, etc. - and that the only options for us were 1) they would pay us for the estimated cost of parts & repairs to our vehicle; or 2) we would have to take our vehicle to a MAPFRE office in the US to have it repaired there.

To me, option #1 might be viable - but the estimated cost of parts & repairs in Mexican pesos may end up far short of what it would cost us to have the work done in the US. Option #2 might work, but everything I've read indicates that MAPFRE in Mexico can administer the claim only in Mexico with Mexican resources. Besides... there is no MAPFRE office or representation in the state of Oklahoma. The closest MAPFRE offices are somewhere in the states of Arizona & Tennessee. Besides all that, there was still nothing concrete in the information given - and it would still take "20 days or more" to process & receive a payment from MAPFRE.

Part II - Duly informed of the above information, my heroic wife was able to counter with what was said on the phone (yesterday) - and with the names of WHO said WHAT. The regional manager tried to reply that they were wrong or should have known better - to which my wife countered (again) that it was not OUR FAULT that their employees were not better trained, and should be liable for what they told us. We had complied with all the instructions & information we had received from the very start by the adjuster who arrived on the scene of the accident & the people we had spoken with yesterday on the phone. How could we be held responsible for that? The regional manager half-heartedly apologized and promised to "get to the bottom of this matter" and call us back as soon as possible (by "tomorrow" afternoon).

Not more than 2 hours later, we got a call from the very apologetic office manager in Cordoba. Bless her heart, she had continued to follow up on our behalf with all the people we had spoken to yesterday, plus making contact (finally) with the regional manager in Veracruz. She basically confirmed for us all that we were told this morning... all we could do was thank her, very kindly, for her help & follow-up having gone far beyond the second mile in helping us.

Less than another hour later, the Cordoba manager called us again to say that the regional manager was taking our situation very seriously. Because she mentioned that my wife was here on behalf of & worked with the UN, the regional manager was going through all of the recordings of our telephone conversations from yesterday. I would only think that there is now a concern for MAPFRE to have to honor anything that was said or promised to us on behalf of MAPFRE. Hmmmm... makes sense to me! Not to be sarcastic, but we know that common sense in matters like these is not always recognized or applied. All we can do now is to wait for another update or phone call.

At present we are still waiting for another phone call that was promised to come from our assigned case adjustor with the "final" answers about the parts availability, and our options from there. It's past 1pm in the afternoon and we're still waiting. I'm sorry my posts like these are so long - but I figure there's still an entertainment value in them somewhere - even if it only serves to help me vent some without a lot of loud profanity  .

My questions have to do with the fact that the other party was at fault for the accident - so their insurance, in the end, will end up paying all the damages & costs. If that is so, what & why all the concerns & limitations being quoted to us by MAPFRE? We are not trying to take advantage of the situation by claiming bad injuries, staying in the most expensive of hotels, or eating in the most expensive restaurants. It would seem that all MAPFRE would be doing is passing on all the costs & expenses to the other insurance company. If there are any disagreements or a shortage of coverage - within reason - then MAPFRE would pay the rest as leftover or litigate again the other company. Additionally, to accomplish my previous statement - it would not be unreasonable, and probably less expensive, for MAPFRE to locate the parts online from US sources and have them freight-shipped or expedited by FEDEX, Estafeta, etc... to be repaired here, where we are in Orizaba. Maybe all that is too easy a solution for the bureaucratically driven corporate minions involved who are not trained or allowed to "think outside of the box". Hmmmm...

Depending on how it all plays out, I'm tempted to take our vehicle & cut our losses and make for the US. My wife was supposed to be in Toronto today - and still has to be in Washington DC on the 18th. In the US I can get the parts from many sources - used or new - then duck down to the border again, on our way back to Oklahoma to have an hojalatero do the work at a far more reasonable price than in the US. We still have the time & budget to do it with, if nothing else happens in our favor from MAPFRE. Any other ideas or experiences - especially in dealing with MAPFRE??

Still waiting (but thankful)...


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## Howler (Apr 22, 2013)

Part III: Well... here it is, about 6:30 pm and the other shoe finally dropped. Nope, nada, ni modo is about all we got out of all this. Because we were not serious hurt or requiring hospitalization, MAPFRE will not pay for any of our hotel or meals, even for the time we've been stuck in limbo waiting for an answer from them on how to proceed. Also, because there are no parts available in Mexico for our vehicle, we still have to wait for approval from "their boss" for a lump sum payment to repair our vehicle... no idea of how much it would be, how long that will take to process or when we'll actually hear from them - especially if/after we check out of the hotel.

Finally, one other "option" that was thrown out, was we could / would have to take the vehicle to Gilbert, AZ to be repaired by or through MAPFRE there. No allowances for the 20+ hour trip from Tulsa, OK to do it - nor for lodging & meals while waiting on the repairs there. I don't think the guy in Arizona even knows or would know about this ahead of time to expect us. Supposedly once we hear back from MAPFRE, we'll have a choice in the matter. All of this without seeing a face or hearing a definite name to blame for this mess.

So far we don't know how much the lump sum payment would be to fix our vehicle in order to make a choice. You can only wonder what it would have been like to have this happen to you if you had no skill at speaking or understanding Spanish. This really gives a bad representation of Mexico, in this type of situation, for tourists. Why buy auto insurance if you have to be dead or serious injured to be taken care of by the insurer?

Hey, but at least we will have a choice once we hear back from MAPFRE...??


(sorry this was slow to post because of our internet connection)


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## mattoleriver (Oct 21, 2011)

It certainly sounds like MAPFRE is a good one to stay away from. 
Was the policy purchased on the U.S. side of the border, if so, can the state insurance commission help?
Is this the sort of thing that Procuraduría Federal del Consumidor could help with?
Is it time to lawyer up?

Good luck


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## Howler (Apr 22, 2013)

mattoleriver said:


> It certainly sounds like MAPFRE is a good one to stay away from.


You've got that RIGHT!! I plan to do a lot of checking & listening in choose the best or most effective tourist policy for our next trip down. At this point, however, I'm not sure where to go (from down deep in the country) to get another policy to cover us for the rest of our time here.



mattoleriver said:


> Was the policy purchased on the U.S. side of the border, if so, can the state insurance commission help?


No, it was purchased on the Mexican side of the border where we did the rest of our transactions for crossing & entry to Mexico.



mattoleriver said:


> Is this the sort of thing that Procuraduría Federal del Consumidor could help with?


I don't know. I noticed that there is an insurance commission for the same purpose (arbitration & complaints)... however, no telling how much time it would take to follow these procedures while here in Mexico where our time is limited & quickly running out. You have to remember that to pursue this, as such, it would be opening yourself up for another long & probably worthless battle with Mexican bureaucracy - on a federal level, which is usually worse!



mattoleriver said:


> Is it time to lawyer up?


Same thing as my last comment. We don't have the time & resources to stay & fight this thing with a lawyer or through arbitration. I still plan to take all the names we've accumulated & really paste them anywhere I can find a website for complaints about similar company misbehavior. For what it's worth, I'll also send a formal complaint, in writing, to the heads of the company in Mexico & internationally (in Spain).



mattoleriver said:


> Good luck


Thanks - I think we already had it when nobody was seriously hurt in the accident; and because our vehicle is still driveable. In the end, this whole thing could have been much worse, with or without competent insurance coverage.

Oh, and we still love Mexico!!


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## Howler (Apr 22, 2013)

Update -

We're still waiting on the phone call that was supposed to come "in an hour or so" yesterday by 2pm. This was the call that would have the final information on how much the insurance would pay us to fix our vehicle on our own. It was "just" a matter of the guy waiting on his jefe to get back from lunch in Guadalajara.

A follow-up this morning resulted in a non-functioning number. Hmmmm... an email to the Cordoba office manager came back to us at 9:30 am that the guy was in her office this morning and that he wanted to meet with us in person "por el medio día". Por eso he was going to call us to schedule the meeting - in his words - within an hour.

Okay, same scenario, same frustration. It's now after 11:00 am. I sincerely hope that the lady in the Cordoba office does not get disciplined or fired for working with us as much as she has. She seems to share the same frustration with us of not getting service, coverage or support in dealing with MAPFRE.


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## frankania (Jul 9, 2015)

We only have liability insurance for our 2006 Toyota which costs about $10US/month. In one of our accidents, it was ruled that both drivers were at fault by the transito--quickly. So no insurance waiting or anything. We fixed the car at our expense--no problem. In 2 other accidents, which were minor bumps and scratches, the other drivers and I quickly settled, right there on the street--no cops, no adjusters, just a quick 20 bucks paid (once by me, and once by the other driver!)

Remember, mechanics & doctors/dentists are CHEAP here, so you don't need lots of insurance like in NOB.


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## Howler (Apr 22, 2013)

frankania said:


> We only have liability insurance for our 2006 Toyota which costs about $10US/month. In one of our accidents, it was ruled that both drivers were at fault by the transito--quickly. So no insurance waiting or anything. We fixed the car at our expense--no problem. In 2 other accidents, which were minor bumps and scratches, the other drivers and I quickly settled, right there on the street--no cops, no adjusters, just a quick 20 bucks paid (once by me, and once by the other driver!)
> 
> Remember, mechanics & doctors/dentists are CHEAP here, so you don't need lots of insurance like in NOB.


I sure wish it was a case of both of us having the same insurance. Because it wasn't so, NOW I wish that we had made some kind of deal with the other party for a cash settlement, being they were to blame for the accident. We could have gone our way to keep our scheduled appointments, or stayed & ordered the part from NOB in order for a local hojalatero to fix it.

Next time...


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## Howler (Apr 22, 2013)

Finally, it looks like we have some answers & resolutions in this tricky tale. Yesterday my wife took the Regional Manager to task at every turn that she tried to place blame upon us or excuse her subordinates' incompetence - or her own ignorance of the case from the beginning. When my wife had mentioned that she knew how the law would handle this in the US, but that here in Mexico she was at a disadvantage for how to proceed... somehow the manager got the impression that my wife was an attorney. Immediately, her whole tone changed as she began to address my wife as "licensiada" (yes, my wife has a bachelor & masters degree).

Upon hanging up with still not much else to go on, we got an email from her asking for our hotel factura & a narration of who promised what relating to hotel, meals & flights back & forth to the US. I can only hope that maybe they will pay it up to the present. We put it together & put it out of our minds. We got a call later that for the sake of our satisfaction, that we would contact the Gilbert, AZ agent who would assign a body shop for estimates in the US in order to get our vehicle fixed. The costs would then be channeled through him to MAPFRE for payment with nothing further coming out of our pocket. Sounds reasonable to us being we can still drive it & get back to the US.

Still, there's a promised phone call still out there with a payout figure for if we decided to accept it & fix the vehicle on our own. I wonder if it will ever come...? This would have all been so easy had we got this information immediately, based on our circumstances. We could have still made it to Canada, then Washington DC, as planned. DC is still possible, but they have been telling her to forget it & take a break because of the accident. We just might do that. Obviously, the next time we buy insurance, it will NOT be MAPFRE!!

During the wait, my wife went back to the dentist for a cleaning & full check-up. It has been quite a long time since her last check-up as she is always on the go and has postponed & ultimately cancelled several appointment along the way. The dentist said she has 13 cavities, a crown that needs replacement - and a need for 2 implant posts that we already knew about. Calculating the cost for all this comes to less than $3000 - way less than over $10-12,000 it would cost us NOB, even with insurance. To let a little sunshine in, I explained that taking the time to get the work done would still put us WAY ahead of the curve with what we'd save. She agreed, so we'll be here for a few more days - free of promised or expected phone calls and dealing with someone's bureaucratic fiefdom.

The End (finally!!)


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

Anyone with education is called licenciado /a that does not mean anything , just a respectful hollow title..a little like the land you see around that are walled and have big gates but nothing in there...

Just as well enjoy the saving on the dental wor..

I asked my insurrance agent if we would have been paid for hotels in case we were stuck and I was told NO. So Axa in that respect is not different.
I asked him what he would do if he had an accident somewhere and had to wait for parts..he said he would have his car towed to Guadalajara where he lived and have it fixed in a place with easy access for him as he would not like the back and forth...

Now you know what to look for in an insurrance company...lesson learned the hard way.

Good luck on your way back and watch those guys who are driving too close to you.


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

citlali said:


> Anyone with education is called licenciado /a that does not mean anything , just a respectful hollow title..a little like the land you see around that are walled and have big gates but nothing in there...


Actually, anyone with a first university degree (in Mexico, a licenciatura) is addressed as licenciado/a. Today I received a message from a LinkedIn contact who wants to sell me books, and he addressed me as Licenciada y Maestra, a rather awkward title, I think, because I have a B.S.ed. and two M.A.s. Maybe he should have called me "Licenciada y Maestra y Maestra".


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## Howler (Apr 22, 2013)

Understood about the title of "licensiado" meaning someone having a bachelor degree. It is also used as a title for abogados here, which is what the manager took my wife for - in addition to knowing that she was here on behalf of the UN Foundation.

Yes, it was a hard lesson to swallow but I'm glad it wasn't worse. Thanks for the comments & input - and for letting me "vent" my way through it all. It's nice that in Mexico it is still easy to turn such adversity into sunshine, ie. my wife's dental work...!

Take care, and thanks again!!


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

Howler said:


> Understood about the title of "licensiado" meaning someone having a bachelor degree. It also used as a title for abogados here, which is what the manager took my wife for - in addition to knowing that she was here on behalf of the UN Foundation.
> 
> Yes, it was a hard lesson to swallow but I'm glad it wasn't worse. Thanks for the comments & input - and for letting me "vent" my way through it. It's still easy to turn such adversity into sunshine, ie. my wife's dental work...!
> 
> Take care, and thanks again!!


"Licenciado" is a title for lawyers because they need to have a _licenciatura _in law to be able to practice. In any event, it's great that the Regional Manager thinks your wife is a lawyer and so has decided to treat you better. 

I have nothing but praise for my Mexican dentist, and his fees are wonderfully low, especially compared to what I remember paying back in the States.


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

No it is not only lawyers..anyone with a licenciadura in anything including no ldegree is a licenciada, they call me licenciada in Chiapas and I promise you they know I am not a lawyer .


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## Howler (Apr 22, 2013)

Isla Verde said:


> "Licenciado" is a title for lawyers because they need to have a _licenciatura _in law to be able to practice. In any event, it's great that the Regional Manager thinks your wife is a lawyer and so has decided to treat you better.


It seemed to change her tone & attitude, at least for the moment. Still no further communications, except that she received the factura & narration. I don't really expect one - and won't hold my breath waiting for it.



Isla Verde said:


> I have nothing but praise for my Mexican dentist, and his fees are wonderfully low, especially compared to what I remember paying back in the States.


Our lady dentist was a very valuable find. She's been practicing for 15 years, is very competent & personable. She did fantastic work on me the week before, saved one molar needing extraction (per my US dentist); and found & saved another one that was deeply in trouble - that my US dentists completely missed.

My wife was hesitant at first, but has since gotten to know her better & see how she works. Still, there are going to be some long days in the chair before we get everything done or corrected. Again, another silver lining among the clouds we had come our way.


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## Howler (Apr 22, 2013)

citlali said:


> No it is not only lawyers..anyone with a licenciadura in anything including no ldegree is a licenciada, they call me licenciada in Chiapas and I promise you they know I am not a lawyer .


I've heard the title used like that a few times, too. I remember thinking that the person referred to was a lawyer until I was laughingly corrected. I was called 'licensiado' a lot when I worked as an immigration consultant with my wife back in '87 - '89 (before going back into the Army full-time). It bothered me because I wasn't a lawyer and I hadn't finished college at the time - one of the reasons I went back into the military. Back then my wife would tell me to let it go, that it being used as a sign of respect. 

Now I've earned the title 3 times over - but it's been a long time since anyone called me that!


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

Yes it is a sign of respect and nothing else. People here use titles a lot more than in the States, everyone has a title so if you seem half way educated you are licenciado to people who have less education and are not comfortable wit Sra or Doña or whatever.


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## Howler (Apr 22, 2013)

citlali said:


> Yes it is a sign of respect and nothing else. People here use titles a lot more than in the States, everyone has a title so if you seem half way educated you are licenciado to people who have less education and are not comfortable wit Sra or Doña or whatever.


Interesting. Thanks Citlali, I like this post! It reminds of how I have noticed that the more I come to Mexico, the more I seem to look for ways to convey some sort of respect or respectability to even to most humble-apparent people that cross my path. No, I'm not being disingenuous; it's a sincere effort to not be seen or to come across as someone who is "bigger" or "more special" than I really am. Truth is, I am a nobody in the grand scheme of things - and showing kindness, respect & thankfulness to anybody that does anything nice or of service to me has certainly gone a lot farther for me than to cop an attitude or to show indifference. It has made for some very wonderful encounters & lasting friendships over the years in this beautiful country of wonderful people.


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## theabroma (Jul 15, 2015)

Who did you get your insurance through, and which company? That is one incredible story!


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## Howler (Apr 22, 2013)

theabroma said:


> Who did you get your insurance through, and which company? That is one incredible story!


The company is called "MAPFRE"... spelled just like that. I don't know if it's an abbreviation for something, or what that would be. We purchased from the same company for close to 20+ years because they were very conveniently located right where we had to do our border crossing paperwork & transactions. We never needed it until now, and of course, you've read the story. We'll be doing a lot of checking between now & next summer before deciding on which company to buy from (and trust) in the future.

Thanks for your comment - hope the story helped you!!


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## mattoleriver (Oct 21, 2011)

The subject of car insurance came up on another board and this story was linked. I truly hope that Howler just fell through the cracks and that his treatment by MAPFRE is not really to be expected from the best in Mexico.
Mapfre, la mejor compañía en seguro de autos: Condusef | El Economista


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## Howler (Apr 22, 2013)

mattoleriver said:


> The subject of car insurance came up on another board and this story was linked. I truly hope that Howler just fell through the cracks and that his treatment by MAPFRE is not really to be expected from the best in Mexico.
> Mapfre, la mejor compañía en seguro de autos: Condusef | El Economista


Hello!

Funny this came up this morning as I was considering making an update post here! First off, everything I reported before about our treatment by MAPFRE - in Mexico - was true & factual. We were lucky that we were not seriously injured and that our vehicle was driveable - otherwise, we'd probably still be there trying to get this thing sorted out & fixed. The way we were treated makes me shudder at wondering what treatment would have been like had the situation been more serious (injuries, damage, etc.).

PART I:

It didn't help, after I got home, to find poor customer reviews, overall, for MAPFRE - in spite of what the above report indicates. However, I had also read the same favorable information (above) on another insurance industry website - which lead me to wonder how it was so favorably rated...? Maybe on the backs of so many premiums received balanced on the few accidents they actually handled well? I dunno.

The only thing we managed to wrangle out of MAPFRE in Mexico was a promise to pay for ONE week of our hotel stay while trying to get information on how to process our claim. BUT - we are STILL waiting on them to make the deposit. As requested by MAPFRE, I sent the information they needed to make an international transfer of funds to our bank account. For some unknown reason, they made the transfer - without our account number - only to have it rejected & sent back. We waited for 3 weeks before finally calling & finding this out from our own bank! MAPFRE said nothing. I made sure they had the account number - AGAIN - on August 28th, and am STILL waiting for the deposit to be made. A follow-up earlier this week came back "_...que no hay movimientos financieros hasta el próximo 10 de septiembre, por lo que ese día se puede tomar como fecha oficial para realizar la transferencia a su cuenta_." Today is the 11th, so let's see what happens today.

PART II:

In dealing with the MAPFRE office we were referred to in Phoenix, AZ - it was a completely different situation. Frank Martinez, the agent I dealt with, was very good in communicating what documents he needed from me to work the claim and in following up with us. Once he got the documents he needed by fax, we were visited by an inspector within a day or two. Less than a week later I received an email from Frank explaining that our vehicle was evaluated as a total loss and that we would receive a settlement of $5000 dollars, less the salvage value ($881.00 dollars). All I had to do was to print the letter, sign it & return it by "snail mail" in order to receive a check. I was just assured that it was received & that the check will be in the mail on Monday. For my part, I was a bit slow to find & send to him proof of our border crossing / return. Otherwise, we'd most likely have received the check 2 or 3 weeks ago. Again, that was my fault, not theirs.

He said that we couldn't have played it better if we'd planned it. He explained that the policy was for only $5000 USD coverage and that our vehicle KBB value was just less than $5200 USD. With the damage estimated at more than 60% of the KBB value of the vehicle, it was therefore declared a "total loss". However, we get to keep the vehicle & fix or sell it - and the title will not be affected or changed to a "salvage" title. So we'll have to decide what to do with it, but at least we can still use it. About the only inconvenience, besides the unsightly bash in the back, is that the rear hatch door doesn't open easily - but we can still put things in the back through the window. All told, I'd still prefer that the wreck didn't happen at all, but I'm very thankful that it wasn't worse.

The treatment from MAPFRE on this side of the border is a complete opposite of what we experienced from the Mexican organization. Maybe that should come as no surprise to anyone who has ever been on the other end of an authoritarian or bureaucratic process down there. In spite of that, the guys in Phoenix have also seemed sincere in wanting us to put together a narrative of our experience, with names & dates, to forward to MAPFRE's international office. My wife is no longer interested in doing so (fatalistic?), but Mr. Martinez encouraged me to do so, again, as of this morning.

So there you have it... hopefully the end of the matter, albeit a "semi-happy" ending. If there is anything else to report, I'll follow up - but IN THE FUTURE: we will book our insurance with a different company. In my research, so far, it will be possible to do so online without even having to worry about what is available where we cross the border. I'm still open to suggestions based on other experiences with "tourist" policies...!



Sincerely,



Dan "The Howler" (and Felisa) Hilbert
Broken Arrow, OK


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## Hound Dog (Jan 18, 2009)

_


frankania said:



We only have liability insurance for our 2006 Toyota which costs about $10US/month. In one of our accidents, it was ruled that both drivers were at fault by the transito--quickly. So no insurance waiting or anything. We fixed the car at our expense--no problem. In 2 other accidents, which were minor bumps and scratches, the other drivers and I quickly settled, right there on the street--no cops, no adjusters, just a quick 20 bucks paid (once by me, and once by the other driver!)

Remember, mechanics & doctors/dentists are CHEAP here, so you don't need lots of insurance like in NOB.

Click to expand...

_Frank & Ania:

You may remember Bob & Brigitte of Ajijic and San Cristóbal de Las Casas. We have stayed at your Fortin B&B in the past and really enjoyed our stays there. A fine and memorable mountainside garden surrounding our cabin and those accomodations (with our mutts) plus a pizza from downtown Fortin is just what we need as a respite from the grueling drive from Lake Chapala to the Chiapas Highlands. We hope to stay there again in the near future if we come through Fortin (as opposed to Oaxaca) enroute from Jalisco to Chiapas. Fortin is a good waystation along that trip.

I was interested that you carry only liablility insurance on your 2006 Toyota and pay the equivalent of about $10USD a month for that service. I figure that some readers planning to move down here may be contemplating the question as to whether or not to insure their automobile(s) after moving here at full coverage or liability only as required by law (plus legal representation in the event of an accident) if one wishes to stay out of some rural pokey after an accident in the boonies. and a costly visit by some hayseed Deputy Dawg in a sour mood. For your information and the information of readers seeking to compare the cost of full coverage vs. liability only, I thougt I´d relate our experience. We have a 2015 Mazda CX5 we drive these days between Jalisco and Chiapas and carry full coverage with the highly reputable firm of AXA. We have purchased this policy with a $30,000 MXN deductible ($1,784USD at today´s exchange rate) but no co-pay. We just paid our annual renewal on that policy and the annual Premium came to the equivalent of $36USD a month at today´s exchange rate. We are lucky to have that coverage as a few months ago when the Mazda was almost brand new we were rear-ended by a semi on the Guadalajara-Mexico City Autopista in Michoacan State and AXA took care of the serious damage to the Mazda´s rear end at a taller in Guadalajara in a splendid fashion with our only cost being that $30,000MXN deductible. As happened with Howler, it took some time (six weeks) to have the car repaired as the parts had to be shipped in from the U.S. but both AXA and the Mazda Collision Center in Guadalajara did a fine job of taking cae of us. Incidentally, that semi rammed our rear end as we were stopped at a toll booth paying our toll and it was clearly the truck driver´s fault. The trucking company also had AXA coverage and the AXA adjuster was on the scene within an hour interviewing us all in a most congenial manner and in time for us to return to Lake Chapala before dark which is a good thing since being stuck in the boonies on the Guadalajara-Mexico City Autopista at night in rural Michoacan is an unpleasant circumstance to even contemplate.

By the way, the accident, which was in no way our fault but still an expensive proposition for AXA had no bearing on the policy renewal 2015/16 and they renewed the policy without blinking. Part of the reason we have such great and prompt service from AXA with a mínimum of bother is that we employ the services of a local Guadalajara AXA agent who can be counted on to act as our advocate in the event of any claims whether we are in Jalisco, Michoacan, distant rural Chiapas or anywhere else in Mexico. 

As a 15 year resident of Mexico, I suggest from personal experience that newcomers use local insurance agents wherever they settle in Mexico rather than seek discounts as a primary motivating factor wherever the company´s agent is located in Mexico or beyond.


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