# PLS HELP...for EEA national family permit



## priy29 (Mar 13, 2012)

hey...
I am in real confusion now as all websites states something different about family permit requirement ..
seeking guidance on this ,,sorry but i will go in lil detail ..

I am an Indian ,was in USA since jan 2008 to Jan 2011 on student visa,
there i met a Brazilian girl and got married with her after live in together for 1 n half yr..we got married in USA...but our marriage is registered in Brazil as well.
now we have a baby boy(11 months) ,who was born in Brazil..(Brazil passport)

NOW SHE HAS PORTUGAL PASSPORT ALSO...
so she is an EEA National.
we couldn't make for our kid , Because when she got her Portugal passport I was in India already..so as they said to apply for minor both parents has to be there in person.. 
they are in India now on visitor visa...
and we want to go UK all together,
WE ALL ARE GOING UK FOR THE FIRST TIME..

OUR MARRIAGE IS REGISTERED IN PORTUGAL AS WELL..

so do I qualify for family permit???

I have our marriage certificate ,,my child's birth certificate,,
we do have sufficient balance for our initial stay in UK,,
she has family relative in UK ,who is agree to give sponser letter n all docs that can be needed..

WHAT IS THE PROCESS TIME FOR THIS ,,AS THEY HAVE LIMITED TIME TO BE HERE IN INDIA..????

DO I HAVE TO APPLY FOR KID SEPARATELY ???

will be so thankful for the answers or more information....


----------



## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

priy29 said:


> hey...
> I am in real confusion now as all websites states something different about family permit requirement ..
> seeking guidance on this ,,sorry but i will go in lil detail ..
> 
> ...


I think the first thing you should do is to find out if you can get your child's Portuguese passport. Ask at the Portuguese embassy/consulate. 
If it looks difficult/time consuming, you shold be able to get an EEA family permit for you as her husband and for him as her child. Whether you have to make separate applications differs with countries, so look up the local information for India.
To qualify for permit, your wife has to be exercising her treaty rights in UK. This includes looking for work (jobseeker). She has to arrive togther with you and her child or ahead of you, but you cannot arrive before your wife.
Look at requirements for EEA permit at UK Border Agency | EEA family permits and specif instruction for applying in India at UK Border Agency | UK Border Agency in India.
Processing time for EEA permit varies between one and 12 weeks, though it differs among consulates.


----------



## priy29 (Mar 13, 2012)

Thanks...about my kid portuguese passport....i agree with what you said.that was the reason that I gave authority letter to make his portuguese passport to my wife when I was leaving from brazil..so when she went to collect her portuguese passport in brazil..she asked to make for my son as well..but they said tht letter doesnt work like that..so whenever n wherever you parents are together IN ANY COUNTRY you can apply for his portuguese passport..so they are in india..that was the first thing I did..we went to portuguese consulate in india and what they said was that you have to make his passport in country he was born...
So as the both conslate stating different things..i decided to not waste time with that..
And yes that I know that we have to go together with her..

How do we probe the jobseeker status? Just apply in some companies ?


----------



## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

priy29 said:


> Thanks...about my kid portuguese passport....i agree with what you said.that was the reason that I gave authority letter to make his portuguese passport to my wife when I was leaving from brazil..so when she went to collect her portuguese passport in brazil..she asked to make for my son as well..but they said tht letter doesnt work like that..so whenever n wherever you parents are together IN ANY COUNTRY you can apply for his portuguese passport..so they are in india..that was the first thing I did..we went to portuguese consulate in india and what they said was that you have to make his passport in country he was born...
> So as the both conslate stating different things..i decided to not waste time with that..
> And yes that I know that we have to go together with her..


I see. Passport and nationality are a nightmare and it's tricky to find out all the ins and outs. Perhaps it's best not to pursue this at the moment and concentrate on getting EEA family permit.



> How do we probe the jobseeker status? Just apply in some companies ?


She just needs to state she is going to UK to look for work, as she is entitled to under EU law. Look at VAF5 application form for EEA permit and the range of questions you have to answer. You need to have some savings with you to show you don't become an undue burden on the state.
http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitecontent/applicationforms/visas/vaf5.pdf


----------



## priy29 (Mar 13, 2012)

Thanks again...there is one more thing I would like to know that..1. I m showing around £15000 in my account...i think tht will be good amount....2. My wife as her uncle their in uk from long time...n he is also agree to show docs like..his stay in uk,his bank information,addrrss proof...but that letter ththe is gonna give us....should be on my name or my wife name.....?????coz he is her uncle ....and she dont need any sponser I think as she is eea national???


----------



## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

priy29 said:


> Thanks again...there is one more thing I would like to know that..1. I m showing around £15000 in my account...i think tht will be good amount....2. My wife as her uncle their in uk from long time...n he is also agree to show docs like..his stay in uk,his bank information,addrrss proof...but that letter ththe is gonna give us....should be on my name or my wife name.....?????coz he is her uncle ....and she dont need any sponser I think as she is eea national???


Your savings are fine.
As for her uncle sponsoring you, I don't think it's strictly necessary, because your wife does have rights under EU law to be accompanied by her husband to UK (there isn't the same maintenance requirement as in spouse visa under UK immigration law), but if you want it as safety net, it should be addressed to 'Entry Clearance Officer' and state something like 'I offer my niece and her husband (names) x, y and z...'


----------



## priy29 (Mar 13, 2012)

Thanks joppa...you are being so kind...
Here as I m looking up the family permit form they have such questions that giving me headech..
1. What is the main purpose of your visit to uk? 
Ans. To settle in uk.
2. How long do you intend to stay in uk?
Ans. Permenantly

3. Have you ever been deported,removed or otherwise required to leave any country, including UK in last 10 years?
Ans..???
There was something happened but I dont know what should I ans abt..

What happen was that when my wife was pregnant, I went to brazil on visitor visa, with permission of college adviser as I was on student visa in usa...
So I went to brazil stayed there with my wife in her pregnancy, on born of my son n more 2 months after he born..all together 5 months in brazil....ok so after all when I was going back to usa I informed my adviser that I am leaving from brazil after 15 days....that time she said tht u will have toenter in usa with new I-20 form (main evidance to prove tht I am an international student).even I had one with me ,with stamped from usa homeland security..but she sent me new by mail in brazil..so when I reached usa..i shwoed new I-20..but as I was studin I usa since 2008..ofcourse the officer is gonna ask me that y u have new I-20..so I explain all to them..then they sent me in back office..again I explained all ..i showed my old I-20 as well.in final they said that it is not allowed to stay more than 4 months out of usa on student visa..i said I wasnt informed abt that in this case You withdraw your entry in usa for now,go back to your country,clear this n u can enter in usa again..so as now I have WD( withdrawn) stamped on my usa visa...what do I ans in 3rd question????

4. When did u last see the eea national?
Ans..???????
I have said earlier in form that we are traveling together from india....so she is with me...i see her everyday,24 see...

3RD QUESTION IS SO IMPORTANT FOR ME TO GET AN ANSWER


----------



## priy29 (Mar 13, 2012)

One more thing. when my wife was 5 month of pregnancy I went to Brazil from USA in Jan 2011 with permission from my college international adviser . After I went to Brazil her pregnancy was nor quite well as my son Born with 34 weeks , so I decided to extend my visa there to stay with her for some more time . And after that as I had to go back to USA I informed my adviser that I am coming Back to USA . That time my adviser told me that I will have to enter with new I-20 form . So she send me new I-20 in Brazil . When I reached to USA , in immigration I gave new I-20 and officer asked me that you were in USA from 2008 so why you are entering with new I-20 , where is your old I-20 form that has stamp from homeland security then I showed them the old I-20 , as it was with me . Then they found it little abnormal and send me in office inside , There again I explained everything but after all that officer gave me option to withdraw my visa and go back to India and after I solve this matter here in India , I can get visa again to enter in USA . so I choose to withdraw my entry in USA for that time and I came back to India .so now there is WD(withdraw to enter) stamp on my usa visa..
I am asking this because there is one question in form for family permit.. ARE YOU DEPORTED,REFUSED OR OTHERWISE HAD TO LEAVE ANY COUNTRY,INCLUDING UK IN LAST 10 YEARS?
what should I answer in that?


----------



## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

priy29 said:


> One more thing. when my wife was 5 month of pregnancy I went to Brazil from USA in Jan 2011 with permission from my college international adviser . After I went to Brazil her pregnancy was nor quite well as my son Born with 34 weeks , so I decided to extend my visa there to stay with her for some more time . And after that as I had to go back to USA I informed my adviser that I am coming Back to USA . That time my adviser told me that I will have to enter with new I-20 form . So she send me new I-20 in Brazil . When I reached to USA , in immigration I gave new I-20 and officer asked me that you were in USA from 2008 so why you are entering with new I-20 , where is your old I-20 form that has stamp from homeland security then I showed them the old I-20 , as it was with me . Then they found it little abnormal and send me in office inside , There again I explained everything but after all that officer gave me option to withdraw my visa and go back to India and after I solve this matter here in India , I can get visa again to enter in USA . so I choose to withdraw my entry in USA for that time and I came back to India .so now there is WD(withdraw to enter) stamp on my usa visa..
> I am asking this because there is one question in form for family permit.. ARE YOU DEPORTED,REFUSED OR OTHERWISE HAD TO LEAVE ANY COUNTRY,INCLUDING UK IN LAST 10 YEARS?
> what should I answer in that?


Just be honest and expain what happened, and let the UKBA draw any conclusions. I don't think it's a major matter, more like misunderstanding so unlikley to affect your family permit application.

As or the answer to question 4), just state you are travelling together.


----------



## priy29 (Mar 13, 2012)

Thank you soooo much joppa....gave to too much confident to go forward...


----------



## priy29 (Mar 13, 2012)

hi joppa,,,i am back again,,,there is this question in vaf form for family permit...

4.14 Does your spouse/partner currently live with you at the >>>> address given in Question 3.1?


so the question 3.1 was my address information here in india,,,,so in that i put my address in india...
now in 4.14 they are asking abt where my spouse currently live (with me)??

so ya she is in india now living with me( on visitor visa)...but originally she is from brazil..

so what address should i put in 4.14??
her address in brazil or in india...

and just after that question 4.15 Will your spouse/partner be travelling with you?


so i think they are asking that are you both are in same country when you are applying and you will be travelling together??
but my wife is saying that as she is in india on visitor visa only ,,this address in india is not her current address..so she want to put her address in brazil...

i think there is confusion in question pls do reply on this,,


----------



## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

priy29 said:


> hi joppa,,,i am back again,,,there is this question in vaf form for family permit...
> 
> 4.14 Does your spouse/partner currently live with you at the >>>> address given in Question 3.1?
> 
> ...


Visiting isn't living, so it should be the one in Brazil. Presumably she is returning there after visiting you?



> and just after that question 4.15 Will your spouse/partner be travelling with you?
> 
> 
> so i think they are asking that are you both are in same country when you are applying and you will be travelling together??
> ...


Yes, Brazil's. The important thing is you either travel together or your wife gets to UK before you. You cannot arrive before your wife.


----------



## priy29 (Mar 13, 2012)

Thanks a ton....


----------



## priy29 (Mar 13, 2012)

hey joppa

got some more for u. 


4.15 Will your spouse/partner be travelling with you? 
Answer Yes/No. If yes, please note that he/she may also need a visa. 
If so they should complete a separate application form.

but my wife has Portugal passport so i think she dont need any visa...

4.17 Please provide full details for each of your dependant 
children
Provide details of all dependant children, including those not travelling 
with you to the UK. For each child you should provide their full name, 
date and place of birth and *passport number* (if they possess one). 
AND
4.19 Please list any of your children who will be travelling with 
you to the UK?
Please note that any children travelling with you may also need a visa. 
If they need a visa, they will have to complete their own application 

we will talk about both of these questions here
as now my son has Brazilian Passport only but we are under process to make his Portugal BI(citizen card) here in India.
so i dont know what should I ans for it,,because if I give Brazilian Passport information then I think,I have to apply for him as well ,as they said in Q. 4.19

BUT when I am applying for me now,, I dont have any documents from Portugal consulate for him,,so I will have to declare about his Brazilian passport.

that is ok with me even to apply for my son also for family permit , it dont cost anything...but if we get his Portugal BI before we leave from India ,which document i should use there ??


Have you ever been deported, removed or *otherwise required to leave any country*, including the UK in the last 10 years?

what is the meaning of OTHERWISE REQUIRED TO LEAVE ANY COUNTRY,,,in what conditions ? does my condition as I asked you before about WD ( withdraw) in this catagory????


----------



## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

priy29 said:


> hey joppa
> 
> got some more for u.
> 
> ...


If you are travelling together with your son, then it seems senseless to leave before his Portuguese ID is issued. So get that sorted first and then apply for EEA family permit just for you, quoting his Portuguese BI. Is BI valid for travel? If it's just a national identity card, it can only be used within EU, for entering UK in this case. He still needs to leave India on his Brazilian passport with Indian visa inside.



> Have you ever been deported, removed or *otherwise required to leave any country*, including the UK in the last 10 years?
> 
> what is the meaning of OTHERWISE REQUIRED TO LEAVE ANY COUNTRY,,,in what conditions ? does my condition as I asked you before about WD ( withdraw) in this catagory????


No. You left voluntarily.


----------



## priy29 (Mar 13, 2012)

hey joppa...

yes i do know that its senseless to go before we get his BI..

but as i said they are in india on visitor visa,,,3 months only...

now 2 months left..


and we dont know about,,,which process will take how long???

i asked in Portugal consulate ...how long it will take to make his BI,,,they dont give any proper answer,,same as UKBA for family permit,,

i will have to apply for his portugal BI and family permit for me (or for both me and my son)
n will wait for what i get first and what i will use to enter in uk for him:confused2:

if i wait for his Portugal BI to be ready ,,i wont have enough time to apply for family permit,,i think..i dont know


----------



## priy29 (Mar 13, 2012)

Applied for the family permit joppa...tanks for ur guiadance ..lets x wht happen...tc.god bless u


----------



## priy29 (Mar 13, 2012)

Hey joppa..i didnt get entry clearance this time...what reason they gave is that your eea national member is not economically active in uk.so you do not qualify as uk regulation...
What went wrong from what we discussed?
Any guidance?


----------



## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

priy29 said:


> Hey joppa..i didnt get entry clearance this time...what reason they gave is that your eea national member is not economically active in uk.so you do not qualify as uk regulation...
> What went wrong from what we discussed?
> Any guidance?


Haven't the time to look through all our discussions, but what UKBA said about refusing your application is puzzling. Only if EEA member has been in UK for more than 3 months, they have to be exercising traty rights by working, being self-employed, retiring etc. But as you are both going to UK for the first time, your wife doesn't have to be economically active yet and can just go as a jobseeker. 
Perhaps you can clarify to me your exact position. You may have completed the form wrongly, of course.


----------



## Jrge (Mar 22, 2011)

priy29 said:


> Hey joppa..i didnt get entry clearance this time...what reason they gave is that your eea national member is not economically active in uk.so you do not qualify as uk regulation...
> What went wrong from what we discussed?
> Any guidance?


If the answers you provided on the VFA5 Family Permit form are different than the ones below, then you made an honest mistake:
8.3.6 NO
8.3.7 *LEAVE IT BLANK* Go to 8.6 ‘Your EEA Residency’
8.3.8 YES
8.4 *LEAVE IT ALL BLANK*

The only doubt I have is that your application is made under EU rules (Directive 2004/38/EC), not UK immigration regulations. Maybe the ECO made an honest mistake.

You can always: 1) Appeal or 2) Re-apply. 

Animo
(Cheers)


----------



## priy29 (Mar 13, 2012)

Hey jrge
Yes I have checked the questions you said...i have answered exactly same as u said..


----------



## priy29 (Mar 13, 2012)

N yes I have filled up VAF5 FAMILY PERMIT FORM...but as from march 2012 its all online application,no more hand written fill up forms is valid...so online forms dont go through all questions as paper application...in online application its all computerized so it wont be in same order as other, so computer will jump to next question as you answer the last question..


----------



## Jrge (Mar 22, 2011)

priy29 said:


> N yes I have filled up VAF5 FAMILY PERMIT FORM...but as from march 2012 its all online application,no more hand written fill up forms is valid...so online forms dont go through all questions as paper application...in online application its all computerized so it wont be in same order as other, so computer will jump to next question as you answer the last question..


Online forms are the norm, but I recommend to print it and "mock it" to avoid "finger" mistakes.

Would you mind sharing -only- the actual text of the refusal letter? I wonder what reference ECO is actually using.

Another question: How long -from completion of online application to rejection- did your process last? 

Animo
(Cheers)


----------



## priy29 (Mar 13, 2012)

Ok..it is like this 
The decision

You wish to accompany your wife join a man you describe as her uncle in the uk.he is a portugues national. Regulation 7 of the immigration ( european economic area) regulations 2006 ("the regulations") requires an EEA national to be economically active in the uk.you have stated at question 44-47 of your application that your wife lives in brazil. She is not economically active in the uk and therefore not a qualified person under the regulations.

Your wife's uncle is a portugues national and I have noted his letter of invitation . This states that he is inviting you to visit him. Regulation 8 requeirs you to be dependent on eea national. You have , however, not provided any evidance to show that you are dependant on your wife's uncle. Moreover, the letter refers to visit. It is open to you to apply for entry clearance as a visitor. You will have to pay the appropriate fee and demonstrate that you meet the requirements of the immigration rules.


This is the decription they have given me ..
I put that invitation letter from her uncle just to show that in begining of days in uk we will be staying in his house..so it was just the proof of accomodation ...he is not my sponsor.


----------



## priy29 (Mar 13, 2012)

It took almost a month..applied on 29th march 2012 got ans o. 24th april 2012


----------



## Jrge (Mar 22, 2011)

priy29 said:


> Ok..it is like this
> The decision
> 
> You wish to accompany your wife join a man you describe as her uncle in the uk.he is a portugues national. Regulation 7 of the immigration ( european economic area) regulations 2006 ("the regulations") requires an EEA national to be economically active in the uk.you have stated at question 44-47 of your application that your wife lives in brazil. She is not economically active in the uk and therefore not a qualified person under the regulations.
> ...


Well its obvious that the excess of unnecessary information confused the ECO.

You don't need to include any invitation letter from her uncle with this application, the only supporting documents you should include are those indicating your relationship with your wife (marriage certificate), passports, one passport sized colour photograph and a clear/well written cover letter from your wife indicating you will be traveling with her.

Once you re-apply and get to “Your life in the UK” you must do this:
* Where do you and the EEA national plan to live in the UK?
*Put down her uncle’s address…*
* Does the EEA national own this property?
*No*
* If ‘No’, on what basis does the EEA National occupy this property e.g. rented, owned by a parent, company property.
*Owned by a relative*
* Does anyone, other than the EEA National, live in the property?
*Yes. Her uncle’s name and surname*

Unlike UK immigration regulations, in this process you don't have to show proof of funds. Remember, your wife can stay here for up to 3 months and do absolutely nothing. However, after that grace period *SHE * -not you- has to start Exercising Treaty Rights, otherwise your further step - Residence Card- won't be approved.

Processing time is about right.

Animo
(Cheers)


----------

