# Bank Sabadell's outrageous charge



## kimuyen

Hello everyone, 

I was shocked to see a charge of 80.40 euros from Sabadell. I called the national number because the local branch is closed and of course they would have to defer to the local branch and no one has contacted me. 

Dug deeper and I found that this is how they justify the charges (attached). They also changed my account from "Expansion" which did not have a commission or transfer fees to "Relacion" with a transfer fee of 5-6 euros for each bank transfer (searching for a document for fees, I found that they now charge 30 euros per quarter for Relacion account). I received no communication at all they they would change my account type and there would be fees and charges. So now, I have a bank account that I cannot use unless I want to pay excessive fees. And from the dates on the current charges, they will charge me again.

Has anyone encountered this? What did you do? What are other banks that you have found more reasonable with no excessive fees?

Has anyone used ING bank? Your experience?

I filed a complaint with the Ombudsman today in case anyone is in the same boat: https://clientebancario.bde.es/pcb/...osayudarte/consultasreclama/comorealizarrecl/

Thank you in advance for your response.


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## xgarb

I had a similar situation when I moved from Sabadell because I got a mortgage elsewhere.

During the closure they informed me that my account had been moved to a different type a few months previously because they had changed the rules and I wasn't paying in enough and that there were fees to pay.

I never got a letter, email or call so I guess they are just moving people and not bothering to warn them.

The staff in the branches are really good but Sabadell HQ treats the customers and also the branch managers really badly.


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## smudgy

Hi. We had a couple of notifications about this a few months back. One via letter and the other a message on the online banking app. As my OH is over 65, they aren't applying the charges to our account, but it appears almost everyone else is copping them. I agree the charges are extremely unfair, but they did announce them. I suspect they'll be losing a lot of customers before long.


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## Williams2

kimuyen said:


> Hello everyone,
> 
> I was shocked to see a charge of 80.40 euros from Sabadell. I called the national number because the local branch is closed and of course they would have to defer to the local branch and no one has contacted me.
> 
> Dug deeper and I found that this is how they justify the charges (attached). They also changed my account from "Expansion" which did not have a commission or transfer fees to "Relacion" with a transfer fee of 5-6 euros for each bank transfer (searching for a document for fees, I found that they now charge 30 euros per quarter for Relacion account). I received no communication at all they they would change my account type and there would be fees and charges. So now, I have a bank account that I cannot use unless I want to pay excessive fees. And from the dates on the current charges, they will charge me again.
> 
> Has anyone encountered this? What did you do? What are other banks that you have found more reasonable with no excessive fees?
> 
> Has anyone used ING bank? Your experience?
> 
> I filed a complaint with the Ombudsman today in case anyone is in the same boat: https://clientebancario.bde.es/pcb/...osayudarte/consultasreclama/comorealizarrecl/
> 
> Thank you in advance for your response.


Bit confused by your post - can you clarify whether these charges relate to bank transfers, for 
example National Transfers to another bank account in Spain, like paying the monthly rent by
bank transfer or something else ? as I cannot open up your thumbnail screenprint.


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## Williams2

*Heads up on Bank Sabadell charges for International Transfers to a bank account
in the UK after the transition period ends on 31st December 2020*

As many are no doubt aware there are no bank charges ( other than what might be
hidden in the exchange rate ) for making International Transfers from a Spanish
bank account to another bank account in a Country thats a member of the
European Union. Naturally if the transfer of money is between Eurozone countries,
eg from Spain to the Republic of Ireland, you don't even have to think about
exchange rates on such a bank transfer.

Once the UK is completely divorced from the European Union ( after 31/12/2020 or
later depending on if there's an extension )
Then a typical bank transfer will be about 33.35 Euros per International Transfer
from a bank account in Spain to a bank account in the UK unless the amount
being transferred is 50,000 Euros or more when the transfer fee will be higher.

No doubt British banks will also be slapping on International fees once the
transition period is over as well.


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## kimuyen

Williams2 said:


> Bit confused by your post - can you clarify whether these charges relate to bank transfers, for
> example National Transfers to another bank account in Spain, like paying the monthly rent by
> bank transfer or something else ? as I cannot open up your thumbnail screenprint.


In the charges, there are "Entry fee" of 50.40 euros plus maintenance fee of 30 euros for a total of 80.40 euros. My account only links to my phone providers that did not incur charges (before this any way). National transfers also did not have a charge before this. This morning, when I tried to pay my son's Spanish teacher, there is a charge of 5 euros for transfer (and 6 euros for immediate transfer). I did not make this transfer as I refused to pay this fee.

Again, I received no notice at all, not via the app nor mailing address (As an American, I need to fill out a form called FATCA for US tax authorities; Sabadell sent the form to my address so surely they have my address to send the notice to had they wanted to.


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## Williams2

kimuyen said:


> In the charges, there are "Entry fee" of 50.40 euros plus maintenance fee of 30 euros for a total of 80.40 euros. My account only links to my phone providers that did not incur charges (before this any way). National transfers also did not have a charge before this. This morning, when I tried to pay my son's Spanish teacher, there is a charge of 5 euros for transfer (and 6 euros for immediate transfer). I did not make this transfer as I refused to pay this fee.
> 
> Again, I received no notice at all, not via the app nor mailing address (As an American, I need to fill out a form called FATCA for US tax authorities; Sabadell sent the form to my address so surely they have my address to send the notice to had they wanted to.


Ok thanks for clarifying that you also incurred a fee when making bank transfers within Spain - 
which is called a National Transfer on the Bank Sabadell Expansion account, online.
Suffice to say I don't incur and have never incurred fees for making National transfers, this
I double checked by phone to them today; that this remains the same for my Bank Sabadell
Premium Expansion account - last year I was on their ordinary Expansion account, so
asked the question - would BS customers with ordinary Expansion accounts incur charges for
making National Transfers and the answer again is no.

So I don't know whats so special about your BS Expansion account that makes them slap
transfer charges, unless your nationality comes into play here, as you say your an
American and therefore a Non EU citizen.

The Brits will all be non EU citizens from the 1st January and you can imagine a lot
of Brits who have made Spain their home are twitchy about any extra charges
that will slapped on their lives ( like this & their taxes ) in Spain, particularly those 
who receive pensions from the UK.


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## snikpoh

kimuyen said:


> In the charges, there are "Entry fee" of 50.40 euros plus maintenance fee of 30 euros for a total of 80.40 euros.


Have you looked online for the notification - mine was in my online account.

The charge of 30€ is only if you have been overdrawn in that quarter, otherwise it should be 15€ per quarter (5€ per month).

If this is not the case, then why not ask them to explain the charges as they don't seem to match what is written on their website.


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## Tigerlillie

kimuyen said:


> Hello everyone,
> 
> I was shocked to see a charge of 80.40 euros from Sabadell. I called the national number because the local branch is closed and of course they would have to defer to the local branch and no one has contacted me.
> 
> Dug deeper and I found that this is how they justify the charges (attached). They also changed my account from "Expansion" which did not have a commission or transfer fees to "Relacion" with a transfer fee of 5-6 euros for each bank transfer (searching for a document for fees, I found that they now charge 30 euros per quarter for Relacion account). I received no communication at all they they would change my account type and there would be fees and charges. So now, I have a bank account that I cannot use unless I want to pay excessive fees. And from the dates on the current charges, they will charge me again.
> 
> Has anyone encountered this? What did you do? What are other banks that you have found more reasonable with no excessive fees?
> 
> Has anyone used ING bank? Your experience?
> 
> I filed a complaint with the Ombudsman today in case anyone is in the same boat: https://clientebancario.bde.es/pcb/...osayudarte/consultasreclama/comorealizarrecl/
> 
> Thank you in advance for your response.


Although I can understand your frustration and anger I don't understand why people are surprised by the shenanigans that Banks get up to, they are not there for your convenience they are there to make money out of you.


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## kimuyen

snikpoh said:


> Have you looked online for the notification - mine was in my online account.
> 
> The charge of 30€ is only if you have been overdrawn in that quarter, otherwise it should be 15€ per quarter (5€ per month).
> 
> If this is not the case, then why not ask them to explain the charges as they don't seem to match what is written on their website.


Yes, I have tried but the local branch is closed and emails are not returned. A call to their central number was referred back to the local branch. I want to know if this is their standard practice going forward and if so, I will have a choice to stay with them or close my account.


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## Williams2

kimuyen said:


> Yes, I have tried but the local branch is closed and emails are not returned. A call to their central number was referred back to the local branch. I want to know if this is their standard practice going forward and if so, I will have a choice to stay with them or close my account.


Most times, I would say 99 times out of a 100 my problems are resolved by calling this number 935 202 910. 
Where they can even attend to your call in English.

With little or no end to the emergency in sight, I'm not sure whether staff from the local branches are in
fact taking calls redirected from their branch, to their home phone number or whether it's head office
support only.


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## Phil Squares

We have been with Sabadell for 3 years. We have an Expansion Plus account. We pay no additional fees at all. Unlimited national transfers, 10 Euro fee for transfers from/to the UK, no maintenance fees on the account. There is a monthly minimum deposit on the account which has to be met each month.


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## snikpoh

Phil Squares said:


> We have been with Sabadell for 3 years. We have an Expansion Plus account. We pay no additional fees at all. Unlimited national transfers, 10 Euro fee for transfers from/to the UK, no maintenance fees on the account. There is a monthly minimum deposit on the account which has to be met each month.


I am really confused now, does anyone know the difference between these 3 accounts;

Expansion account
Expansion Plus account
Expansion Premium account


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## Williams2

snikpoh said:


> I am really confused now, does anyone know the difference between these 3 accounts;
> 
> Expansion account
> Expansion Plus account
> Expansion Premium account


In laymans terms - this usually translates to what effect each account has on your bottom line, eg extra charges.

Expansion account - 5 Euros per month, Admin or maintenance fee payable per quarter.
Expansion Plus account - 5 Euros per month, Admin or maintenance fee payable per quarter.
Expansion Premium account - no admin fee, so long as you satisfy the caveat,
there are 3 of them I believe but what most people go for is BS Home Insurance.

As usual correct me if I'm wrong on the particulars for the Plus account.


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## snikpoh

Williams2 said:


> In laymans terms - this usually translates to what effect each account has on your bottom line, eg extra charges.
> 
> Expansion account - 5 Euros per month, Admin or maintenance fee payable per quarter.
> Expansion Plus account - 5 Euros per month, Admin or maintenance fee payable per quarter.
> Expansion Premium account - no admin fee, so long as you satisfy the caveat,
> there are 3 of them I believe but what most people go for is BS Home Insurance.
> 
> As usual correct me if I'm wrong on the particulars for the Plus account.


I thought the plus account was free? I can't see a difference between the normal and the plus otherwise


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## Lynn R

Williams2 said:


> In laymans terms - this usually translates to what effect each account has on your bottom line, eg extra charges.
> 
> Expansion account - 5 Euros per month, Admin or maintenance fee payable per quarter.
> Expansion Plus account - 5 Euros per month, Admin or maintenance fee payable per quarter.
> Expansion Premium account - no admin fee, so long as you satisfy the caveat,
> there are 3 of them I believe but what most people go for is BS Home Insurance.
> 
> As usual correct me if I'm wrong on the particulars for the Plus account.


I have an Expansion account and the requirements to avoid the €5 per month charge were to have Sabadell insurance or a deposit or other investment account (can't remember the minimum limit) or have a directly deposited pension being paid in. I don't have any of those so was charged €15 at the end of March (I have to transfer my pension myself from my own UK account). I didn't get any of the other amounts the OP was charged, though.


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## Isobella

Lynn R said:


> I have an Expansion account and the requirements to avoid the €5 per month charge were to have Sabadell insurance or a deposit or other investment account (can't remember the minimum limit) or have a directly deposited pension being paid in. I don't have any of those so was charged €15 at the end of March (I have to transfer my pension myself from my own UK account). I didn't get any of the other amounts the OP was charged, though.


Many years ago we had a Sabadell account (was Solbank) . They came out with a help line for expats. Sounded ok for those who did not speak Spanish as covered many problems newbies have with regulation etc. Was expensive at €9 per quarter. Catch was in the letter informing us we were not in Spain at the time. The letter said you had to opt out or automatically charged. Was charged for 2 quarters although refunded when I did an official complaint. When I went to the branch to close account a German man in front was closing for exactly the same


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## Lynn R

Isobella said:


> Many years ago we had a Sabadell account (was Solbank) . They came out with a help line for expats. Sounded ok for those who did not speak Spanish as covered many problems newbies have with regulation etc. Was expensive at €9 per quarter. Catch was in the letter informing us we were not in Spain at the time. The letter said you had to opt out or automatically charged. Was charged for 2 quarters although refunded when I did an official complaint. When I went to the branch to close account a German man in front was closing for exactly the same


Once I start to receive my UK state pension I'll be able to have that paid directly to my Spanish account so won't have to pay the €5 per month then. To me it's just not worth moving my account to another bank and having to change all the direct debits, a lot of banks are introducing new charges now anyway so it could be a case of out of the frying pan, into the fire.


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## Isobella

Lynn R said:


> Once I start to receive my UK state pension I'll be able to have that paid directly to my Spanish account so won't have to pay the €5 per month then. To me it's just not worth moving my account to another bank and having to change all the direct debits, a lot of banks are introducing new charges now anyway so it could be a case of out of the frying pan, into the fire.


Wise. My main UK a/c was opened when I was 15 and I have never changed it. Probably never will.


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## Lynn R

Isobella said:


> Wise. My main UK a/c was opened when I was 15 and I have never changed it. Probably never will.


I did change my UK account once, before I left. Had opened a NatWest account when I first started work and kept it for years, then they "lost" a cheque I had paid in over the counter to pay my credit card bill. I didn't notice because the credit card bill was paid, then months later I got a call from the bank telling me I "owed" them over 900 pounds because they had paid the bill and didn't have my cheque (although I had the stamped counterfoil proving it had been paid in). They would not budge on it, not even let me pay it in instalments and I was so disgusted I did change to First Direct, who have been brilliant ever since.

I changed my Spanish account once too, was originally with Banco Popular because we had a small mortgage with them when we bought our first house. Their service was awful and when they got into financial trouble I swapped to Sabadell at the time we sold the house and bought the new flat, as all the direct debits were having to be changed anyway. We find Sabadell very good so I'm not changing from them for the sake of €5 a month.


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## Williams2

Lynn R said:


> I have an Expansion account and the requirements to avoid the €5 per month charge were to have Sabadell insurance or a deposit or other investment account (can't remember the minimum limit) or have a directly deposited pension being paid in. I don't have any of those so was charged €15 at the end of March (I have to transfer my pension myself from my own UK account). I didn't get any of the other amounts the OP was charged, though.


Another useful item with Bank Sabadell Expansion Acc. Online banking is Section 2 called Financing.
Which even if you never take advantage of BS financing, acts as a great visible barometer
of how well or badly your doing overall with managing your personal finances as BS sees it
from all the money going in and out of your bank account.
Naturally over the months that your income exceeds your monthly expenses, the amount that
you can borrow under the Financing Section goes steadily upwards until such time as you
hit a month where you move house or change rented houses or apartments.

Items like paying 3 times first months rent when moving to a new apartment, together with moving
expenses, plus buying any furniture or other items that are lacking in your new place, can really be
a bombshell on your monthly outgoings.

Which is immediately reflected in Section 2 where the amount BS will readily let you borrow
either nosedives or disappears completely ( say if you bought a new car at the same time )
until such time as you enter a quite period; with your monthly outgoings and BS starts restoring 
the amount that can be made available, for you to borrow under Section 2, Financing.

These views of how well or badly your managing with your money on your BS Expansion account,
are also detailed in their emails, that are sent monthly, to your online mail box called 
_Personal Finance - Your finances_.

I've never seen this really done with British Bank accounts, as the only way you get a general view
of how well or badly your managing your finances ( over the years ) is by means of Credit Scoring
with the Credit Score Reference Agencies, called Equifax and Experian; although other factors
also affect your credit score in the UK, like does your name appear on the Electoral roll or not.


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## Williams2

This is interesting about one of the Bank Sabadell accounts.

Higher Sterling Account
The Higher Sterling Account is apparently for customers who do not wish to worry
about the euro exchange rate because they keep their balance in pounds.

Here's what they promise about it:
No maintenance fee 
No maximum or minimum limit 
100% liquidity 
Access via online banking
Earns interest above a certain balance - namely 0.20 percent if its £12,000 or over.

Although whether that interest rate survives the crisis is another story !!


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## Juan C

Some years ago I had a sterling savings account with Solbank (part of Sabadell). 

When I wanted to close the account I was aware the bank were likely to charge 0.5% on the whole amount. I had been burned by another bank so I knew.

Before making the transfer, sterling to sterling to another bank, I tried to negotiate a better rate. 

Long story short: They were not interested and when I made the transfer I was charged 0.5% on the whole amount. That was just over £800.

So ‘shady’ treatment by Sabadell, no surprise there !


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## Williams2

Juan C said:


> Some years ago I had a sterling savings account with Solbank (part of Sabadell).
> 
> When I wanted to close the account I was aware the bank were likely to charge 0.5% on the whole amount. I had been burned by another bank so I knew.
> 
> Before making the transfer, sterling to sterling to another bank, I tried to negotiate a better rate.
> 
> Long story short: They were not interested and when I made the transfer I was charged 0.5% on the whole amount. That was just over £800.
> 
> So ‘shady’ treatment by Sabadell, no surprise there !


Small wonder British Expats and immigrants get the general impression that 'Spanish banks are bad' and 'British banks are good'

Which probably explains why so many of them are so reluctant to close their British bank accounts after moving to Spain.


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## Juan C

Williams2 said:


> Which probably explains why so many of them are so reluctant to close their British bank accounts after moving to Spain.


When I came to Spain 34 years ago I kept my several accounts with Nationwide. I was so pleased I did because most UK banks will not allow a person not resident in UK to open an account, but if you have one they will let you keep it.

So suggestion to anyone moving to Spain keep, or open, an account in UK before you leave UK.

PS there is an exception. The EU rules that one must be able to open an account in any EU country, however, in UK at least that is the basic acción, so not very useful.

https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/consumers/financial-products-and-services/bank-accounts-eu/index_en.htm


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## Lynn R

Williams2 said:


> Small wonder British Expats and immigrants get the general impression that 'Spanish banks are bad' and 'British banks are good'
> 
> Which probably explains why so many of them are so reluctant to close their British bank accounts after moving to Spain.


I had more practical reasons for keeping my UK bank accounts open after I moved to Spain, namely that my main pension provider (and my SIPP provider) will only make payments into a UK bank account, and that when I die if my heirs are UK resident then they will not be subject to Spanish IHT on assets held in the UK, but they would be if the funds were in Spanish bank accounts. 

Many people will also be aware that once you become non resident in the UK it is much more difficult to open a new account there should you need to for any reason.

Therefore it should not be assumed that people keep their UK accounts open simply due to some kind of "Spanish banks are bad" prejudice.


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## Williams2

Lynn R said:


> I had more practical reasons for keeping my UK bank accounts open after I moved to Spain, namely that my main pension provider (and my SIPP provider) will only make payments into a UK bank account, and that when I die if my heirs are UK resident then they will not be subject to Spanish IHT on assets held in the UK, but they would be if the funds were in Spanish bank accounts.
> 
> Many people will also be aware that once you become non resident in the UK it is much more difficult to open a new account there should you need to for any reason.
> 
> Therefore it should not be assumed that people keep their UK accounts open simply due to some kind of "Spanish banks are bad" prejudice.


As I've said innumerable times on this forum over the years, don't close any British bank accounts and even Credit cards
- when moving to Spain - as they always have future value eg Pensions.

As for Spanish banks - by all means lets hear those anecdotes about good Spanish bank experiences instead of only
concentrating on posting examples of bad ones !!


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## Lynn R

Williams2 said:


> As I've said innumerable times on this forum over the years, don't close any British bank accounts and even Credit cards
> - when moving to Spain - as they always have future value eg Pensions.


But that is completely at odds with what you said above:-

"Small wonder British Expats and immigrants get the general impression that 'Spanish banks are bad' and 'British banks are good'

Which probably explains why so many of them are so reluctant to close their British bank accounts after moving to Spain."


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## Williams2

Lynn R said:


> But that is completely at odds with what you said above:-
> 
> *"Small wonder British Expats and immigrants get the general impression that 'Spanish banks are bad' and 'British banks are good'*
> 
> Which probably explains why so many of them are so reluctant to close their British bank accounts after moving to Spain."


Others - not me, Lynn. I do post examples of good things about Spanish bank, Bank Sabadell in this thread,
only for others ( like Juan C and his shady treatment by Sabadell ) to post examples of bad experiences.

Of course I cannot help what general impression posting stuff like the OP's title of this thread gives about BS,
to other Expats following this forum.


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## Isobella

Juan C said:


> When I came to Spain 34 years ago I kept my several accounts with Nationwide. I was so pleased I did because most UK banks will not allow a person not resident in UK to open an account, but if you have one they will let you keep it.
> 
> So suggestion to anyone moving to Spain keep, or open, an account in UK before you leave UK.
> 
> PS there is an exception. The EU rules that one must be able to open an account in any EU country, however, in UK at least that is the basic acción, so not very useful.
> 
> https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/consumers/financial-products-and-services/bank-accounts-eu/index_en.htm


You will remember the good old days when interest rates were high. Had an account with NatWest Espana and ordinary savings account was 12% interest. Ahah:clap2:

When rates slid kept Spanish a/c very low and had money in Norwich & Peterborough (now closed?) Gibraltar. Advantage was I could withdraw in sterling or Euro and absolutely no charge, full business rate. Would be a problem now though with the lock down.


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## tmarshall57

There are fee-free alternatives if you can manage your account totally online. I use the Bankia Cuenta On account which is free of charges if certain conditions are followed (these relate to using the account online and enabling push notifications on your phone). Cajamar also offers a free account (The Wefferent account) which is also free to residents and non-residents if used online although there is a low charge should you wish to use a bank branch for any reason. With a non-resident Cajamar account you do need to visit a branch to open the account. Take every piece of ID you can think of.

I used Sabadell for our first year of property ownership because the account was simple to set up before we had a NIE, we were allocated a bank representative who spoke english etc. Charges then were about €30 per quarter. However given that our banking requirements in Spain are simple and can be managed online I'm happy to go down the online route and save on charges.


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## Dominic Lopecas

kimuyen said:


> Hello everyone,
> 
> I was shocked to see a charge of 80.40 euros from Sabadell. I called the national number because the local branch is closed and of course they would have to defer to the local branch and no one has contacted me.
> 
> Dug deeper and I found that this is how they justify the charges (attached). They also changed my account from "Expansion" which did not have a commission or transfer fees to "Relacion" with a transfer fee of 5-6 euros for each bank transfer (searching for a document for fees, I found that they now charge 30 euros per quarter for Relacion account). I received no communication at all they they would change my account type and there would be fees and charges. So now, I have a bank account that I cannot use unless I want to pay excessive fees. And from the dates on the current charges, they will charge me again.
> 
> Has anyone encountered this? What did you do? What are other banks that you have found more reasonable with no excessive fees?
> 
> Has anyone used ING bank? Your experience?
> 
> I filed a complaint with the Ombudsman today in case anyone is in the same boat: https://clientebancario.bde.es/pcb/...osayudarte/consultasreclama/comorealizarrecl/
> 
> Thank you in advance for your response.


Most Spanish Banks and Insurance companies are like the government "DESHONEST". I was in the situation few years ago, so I found BBVA internet account they are very good in the last four years they haven't charge mi anything, and they carry all my DD, international Transfers and so on.
So Fared Sabadell-Bank. and as from insurance MAPFRE is the only insurance that I would ever use in Spain


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## spacey10

Hi,

Not sure if anyone mentioned this, however I looked back and found the notification these charges would relate to. Mine was sent in January 2020. My understanding after clarifying with them is that if I continue to pay in my €700 ppm (however I choose) and my balance doesn't fall below 0 then I will incur only the quarterly charge of €5. From what I see and using the details below I can only assume you didn't pay in the required amount each month and also your balance fell below zero. 

The only other banks I can suggest that offer a Euro account (if it is just day to day banking) are ING, Starling, Bunq, these will offer to non residents. If you are happy (when Covid-19 allows us) to fly to Cyprus then you can open an account in Cyprus with most of the major banks (not the Russian ones they want you to have millions with them). Once open you can use the account anywhere and they don't care that you are not resident, but like I experiences with Sabadel you have to walk into a branch to open the account. 

Bunq is online app based (Fintech). Starling is the same but you need to hold a sterling account first. The usual Revolute (but it's not a bank).

They advised the following. 

_Banco Sabadell provides you with timely and transparent information on all aspects related to your products.

For this reason, we hereby inform you that as of 24/03/2020, changes will be made to the terms and conditions of the account referred to herein, in accordance with the powers set forth in the contract, which will consist of the following:

1.Maintenance fee: €30 per quarter. This will be discounted and reduced to €15 per quarter if, during the settlement period, the end-of-day balance on the account does not fall below €0 at any time.

2.Administration fee per entry: €0.80 for each entry occurring during the quarter. This will be discounted and will remain at €0 per quarter if, during the settlement period, the end-of-day balance on the account does not fall below €0 at any time.

All other terms and conditions will remain the same.

Please visit your branch if you require information concerning the requirements to access other types of accounts free of administration and maintenance fees._


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## trichter

I had a very similar experience today. My account was downgraded to "Cuenta Relacion" without being informed about it. I made a transfer within Spain (two SEPA accounts) and ended up paying 100 EUR in fees just for the transfer. That feels kind of fraudulent.

Phone hotline pointed me back to the branch. 

Has anyone made expriences how resolving such conlicts without substantial cost for getting all my remaining cash of ouf this bank works?


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## Juan C

Sol Bank a few years ago charged me 0.5% of the total amount transferred. It was just over 800 euros.


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## kalohi

trichter said:


> I had a very similar experience today. My account was downgraded to "Cuenta Relacion" without being informed about it. I made a transfer within Spain (two SEPA accounts) and ended up paying 100 EUR in fees just for the transfer. That feels kind of fraudulent.
> 
> Phone hotline pointed me back to the branch.
> 
> Has anyone made expriences how resolving such conlicts without substantial cost for getting all my remaining cash of ouf this bank works?


And something similar happened to me last summer. They changed our account conditions without informing us and suddenly we were being charged enormous monthly fees. We went to complain, and they said the type of account we had had previously was no longer available, so they had changed our account to a new type. We had been notified a month before the change through a message on their app (not through email or an SMS or - gasp - a letter, and needless to say we hadn't seen the message). We decided to close the account. However, this new account didn't allow free transfers like the old one had, and in order to get our money out we had to pay over 200€.  We filled out an official complaint form, and their answer was that we had been notified that they were increasing their fee. End of subject. How sweet for the bank - let's suddenly charge our customers huge monthly fees, and make it so that if they try to leave we charge them huge transfer fees. 

Lesson learned: never bank with XXXX, and regularly check your messages on your bank app!!


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## trichter

kalohi said:


> And something similar happened to me last summer. They changed our account conditions without informing us and suddenly we were being charged enormous monthly fees. We went to complain, and they said the type of account we had had previously was no longer available, so they had changed our account to a new type. We had been notified a month before the change through a message on their app (not through email or an SMS or - gasp - a letter, and needless to say we hadn't seen the message). We decided to close the account. However, this new account didn't allow free transfers like the old one had, and in order to get our money out we had to pay over 200€.  We filled out an official complaint form, and their answer was that we had been notified that they were increasing their fee. End of subject. How sweet for the bank - let's suddenly charge our customers huge monthly fees, and make it so that if they try to leave we charge them huge transfer fees.
> 
> Lesson learned: never bank with XXXX, and regularly check your messages on your bank app!!


I am also in the process of learning this lesson. Incredible crooks! Did you complain to the ombudsman in Spain? (Is that the complaint form you mention?)


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## kalohi

trichter said:


> I am also in the process of learning this lesson. Incredible crooks! Did you complain to the ombudsman in Spain? (Is that the complaint form you mention?)


We used the official complaints book - the 'hoja de reclamaciones' - that all businesses are required to provide. 

As I said, it was decided that we had been properly informed about the upcoming change to our account. Apparently it's our fault that we hadn't checked the app and seen the message to us about the change.


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## Pesky Wesky

kalohi said:


> We used the official complaints book - the 'hoja de reclamaciones' - that all businesses are required to provide.
> 
> As I said, it was decided that we had been properly informed about the upcoming change to our account. Apparently it's our fault that we hadn't checked the app and seen the message to us about the change.


 That does tend to be the case in Spain, it's you who has to prove whatever instead of the accuser. Traffic fines for example, if you are fined and say you weren't notified they will say it was your responsibility to check the official page, which of course most people don't.
https://sede.dgt.gob.es/es/multas/envio-edictos-sanciones-a-testra-y-teu/index.shtml
If, as an EU citizen you don't register and you are caught, it's up to you to prove that you weren't here more than they have to prove that you were here.


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## Ifn

Phil Squares said:


> We have been with Sabadell for 3 years. We have an Expansion Plus account. We pay no additional fees at all. Unlimited national transfers, 10 Euro fee for transfers from/to the UK, no maintenance fees on the account. There is a monthly minimum deposit on the account which has to be met each month.


In August, when I was preoccupied with Covid, I did get charged a monthly fee because I forgot to deposit money into my Sabadell account. But thankfully, it was only for one month.


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## Overandout

Ifn said:


> In August, when I was preoccupied with Covid, I did get charged a monthly fee because I forgot to deposit money into my Sabadell account. But thankfully, it was only for one month.


I got charged the commissions on my Deutsche Bank account one month because even though I did transfer the usual amount into the account, I forgot to put the word "nomina" in the concept of the transfer... my account is commission free on the condition that I have my "nomina" paid into it... They did eventually see reason and refunded me, but on the condition that the future transfers must be called "nominas"!!


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## Ifn

Overandout said:


> I got charged the commissions on my Deutsche Bank account one month because even though I did transfer the usual amount into the account, I forgot to put the word "nomina" in the concept of the transfer... my account is commission free on the condition that I have my "nomina" paid into it... They did eventually see reason and refunded me, but on the condition that the future transfers must be called "nominas"!!


Wow, I’m gonna start putting nómina on my deposits.


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## Muddy

Ifn said:


> In August, when I was preoccupied with Covid, I did get charged a monthly fee because I forgot to deposit money into my Sabadell account. But thankfully, it was only for one month.


 Sabadel have also been stealing money from my account.
The contract clearly states no charges. They have my telephone number, address and I didn't notice any notification.
If I do a withdrawal at the cash machine, they send me an SMS to make sure I know about it! So they could have notified by text message if they really wanted their customers to know.
They are taking taking 30 euros a quarter.
I've always kept the account above 0 euros and transfers money into the account every month.
I also get charged 30 euros a year for the debit card that comes with the account, so the account wasn't free even though it was advertised as a free account! As soon as I activated the card they took 30 euros out.


Further to this worry, where do we all stand with UK banks and our bank accounts access after 31 December!
The last thing I want to do now is have to move my funds to Sabadel who I think are in breach of contract. It's theft whatever way you look at it.
That and not getting any interest on the account, with inflation and them loaning our money out and making a good profit on it I would really like to stop using banks as much as possible.


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## Alcalaina

Muddy said:


> Sabadel have also been stealing money from my account.
> The contract clearly states no charges. They have my telephone number, address and I didn't notice any notification.
> If I do a withdrawal at the cash machine, they send me an SMS to make sure I know about it! So they could have notified by text message if they really wanted their customers to know.
> They are taking taking 30 euros a quarter.
> I've always kept the account above 0 euros and transfers money into the account every month.
> I also get charged 30 euros a year for the debit card that comes with the account, so the account wasn't free even though it was advertised as a free account! As soon as I activated the card they took 30 euros out.
> 
> 
> Further to this worry, where do we all stand with UK banks and our bank accounts access after 31 December!
> The last thing I want to do now is have to move my funds to Sabadel who I think are in breach of contract. It's theft whatever way you look at it.
> That and not getting any interest on the account, with inflation and them loaning our money out and making a good profit on it I would really like to stop using banks as much as possible.


Firstly there should not be any problem maintaining your UK accounts after 31/12. Barclays have said they will stop their Barclaycard service if there is no trade deal, but current accounts should all be fine.

Have you asked your bank manager about this charge? La Caixa did something similar to me a few years ago (though it was only €9 a quarter) and when I challenged it they said I could now only get free banking if I took out their insurance. As you say, they never seem to advise customers of changes in their fees, at least not so as you would notice (it might be in the small print on their website). I said I didn't want their insurance and reminded them that they had promised me free banking because the pension is going in every month, and they withdrew it. It crept back in a few months later, but the debit card fee has gone so it works out about the same.

Talk to your bank and ask about their commission-free accounts. If they don't come up with anything it is always worth threatening to move to another bank! There are some out there, including CaixaBank provided you have a regular monthly deposit, have at least three direct debits and use the debit card regularly.


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## Isobella

I had a problem with sabadell many years ago. I transferred a large sum in Euro to a Dutch bank. In the eurozone banks are supposed to charge the same commission as national rate. They didn't and charged me thousands of Euro. After complaining to the Manager I contacted Ausbanc, finally got refund.

https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ausbanc


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## Muddy

Alcalaina said:


> Firstly there should not be any problem maintaining your UK accounts after 31/12. Barclays have said they will stop their Barclaycard service if there is no trade deal, but current accounts should all be fine.
> 
> Have you asked your bank manager about this charge? La Caixa did something similar to me a few years ago (though it was only €9 a quarter) and when I challenged it they said I could now only get free banking if I took out their insurance. As you say, they never seem to advise customers of changes in their fees, at least not so as you would notice (it might be in the small print on their website). I said I didn't want their insurance and reminded them that they had promised me free banking because the pension is going in every month, and they withdrew it. It crept back in a few months later, but the debit card fee has gone so it works out about the same.
> 
> Talk to your bank and ask about their commission-free accounts. If they don't come up with anything it is always worth threatening to move to another bank! There are some out there, including CaixaBank provided you have a regular monthly deposit, have at least three direct debits and use the debit card regularly.


 Thanks for the reply. I can see a few news stories on account closures but I've got a lot on so not had time to check in great detail. But it would seem this is just about current accounts. The search option on my UK bank website isn't working but I've not found anything yet on this issue.

My Spanish bank. I've not been able to contact them ever! And I tried many times. The Only time I got through about an issue over transfer charges (got a different answer and % rate or charge every time I called the help line)! They hung up as soon as I said I didn't speak Spanish. This was the dedicated telephone number with English speaking staff at my main branch. I haven't checked for a long time, that was I think the very end of last year, then that telephone number was removed from the page on my account login.

I even got asked for my password once when I called them and their automatic login had failed, I said no of course and complained but I never got an answer on that complaint.

I'm going to complain via email regarding the charges, better to have an answer from them in writing if I need my lawyer to deal with them.

They probably have protected themselves in the small print, but adding such a large charge I feel deserves proper notification.

Unlike a few people I know, I use my card, but I'm paying for the card anyway, I transfer in on regular day give or take every month, never missed a transfer, account has always had funds so I think the charges are a p**-take.

I don't like the feeling of jumping through hoops for banks, if they don't see the value of customers and our money they use to make a lot of money then I at least will look for an alternative and only keep enough in to pay the bills.


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## Muddy

Isobella said:


> I had a problem with sabadell many years ago. I transferred a large sum in Euro to a Dutch bank. In the eurozone banks are supposed to charge the same commission as national rate. They didn't and charged me thousands of Euro. After complaining to the Manager I contacted Ausbanc, finally got refund.
> 
> https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ausbanc


 This sounds not too far away from one big issue I had with Sabadell. 

The contract is a very long document, it's a mess in places, so I tried and tried calling the help line but I kept getting conflicting information on the % rate I would be charged and on the maximum funds allowed in any one transaction.
In the end I couldn't trust what I was being told so I bypassed my bank to transfer the funds.

If Sabadell were honest and up front about charges, (and I'm sure many banks do the same as them) they would let you fill in an online form what you want to do, transfer, then the webform would show you any charges that will be made before you go off and make a transfer.
Otherwise its a game of chance and the banks make plenty of extra profit before the word goes around.
The same as UK banks for years creating a new account, better interest, a year later its paying no interest.


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## Alcalaina

Muddy said:


> My Spanish bank. I've not been able to contact them ever! And I tried many times. The Only time I got through about an issue over transfer charges (got a different answer and % rate or charge every time I called the help line)! They hung up as soon as I said I didn't speak Spanish. This was the dedicated telephone number with English speaking staff at my main branch. I haven't checked for a long time, that was I think the very end of last year, then that telephone number was removed from the page on my account login.


So I guess you have an online-only account and no local branch?

This is why when people ask for bank recommendations, I always say go for one that has a branch near where you live, so you can go in and speak to them in person, taking an interpreter if necessary. It makes a big difference!


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## Lynn R

Muddy said:


> My Spanish bank. I've not been able to contact them ever! And I tried many times. The Only time I got through about an issue over transfer charges (got a different answer and % rate or charge every time I called the help line)! They hung up as soon as I said I didn't speak Spanish. This was the dedicated telephone number with English speaking staff at my main branch. I haven't checked for a long time, that was I think the very end of last year, then that telephone number was removed from the page on my account login.


I bank with Sabadell and needed to ring them a few weeks ago when I got locked out of my online banking - I rang the main Customer Service number from their website, it was answered pretty much straight away, I pressed whatever the number was for attention in English and got through to a gentleman who was very helpful and spoke excellent English, the problem was sorted out within a very few minutes.


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## Muddy

Alcalaina said:


> So I guess you have an online-only account and no local branch?
> 
> This is why when people ask for bank recommendations, I always say go for one that has a branch near where you live, so you can go in and speak to them in person, taking an interpreter if necessary. It makes a big difference!


 I had the account setup where I thought I was going to settle but ended up much further away, I do have a branch near me but no one speaks English so as you say I will need to take an interpreter, but it really depends on the issue.
I'll try again to speak to the branch where my account was setup, if that fails I'll change to the local bank when I have time.


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## Muddy

Lynn R said:


> I bank with Sabadell and needed to ring them a few weeks ago when I got locked out of my online banking - I rang the main Customer Service number from their website, it was answered pretty much straight away, I pressed whatever the number was for attention in English and got through to a gentleman who was very helpful and spoke excellent English, the problem was sorted out within a very few minutes.


 Yes I've got through to them via the support number, but was told I would have to deal with my branch directly for the issue about transfer charges, but they contradicted themselves as they gave me rates, and many different rates at the time. That's why I had to give up and bypass my bank account in fear of getting charged a lot for the transfer. One person told me my branch may have given me a different contract!

My local branch never picked up the phone, just the one time and hung up on me, I did phone back several times and never got through again.

Most of the support line staff are very easy to talk to, only had one really bad call. But the information I was getting was very confusing, I was being told various different rates of % for transfers, one call I made I was told there would be no charge, but others said there would be a charge, my contract says no charge at all.
All in all very frustrating and very unprofessional in some respects, but most of the staff are friendly and their English is good.


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## CherryPie11

First of all, thanks to * kimuyen *for starting this post, and to everyone who has made useful comments.
I was also shocked to see I'd been charged 86 Euros on Christmas Eve! I've been with Sabadell since 2011, I'm a Spanish resident with a permanent job contract, so over 1,000E is paid into my account monthly [this did change due to being put on ERTE during the "lockdown", when I recieved payments from SEPE, but the balance in my account was always more than 1,000]. I also have a car loan with them, and two insurance policies, life and payment protection [both of which I was forced to pay in full until the end of the term of the loan!], however, they have changed my account from "Expasion" to "Cuenta Relacion" without notice. I use online banking and I've checked my messages again... nothing! To say that I am furious would be an understatement. I will go to my branch tomorrow to see if I can get this resolved, I'm not sure if I need an appointment or not. If I can't get a satisfactory resolution, I will make a complaint to the Ombudsman [thank you for the link] and I will see about changing banks too. If anyone can recommend a Spanish bank that doesn't charge fees for working Spanish residents, I'd be very grateful.


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## xicoalc

Im also with sabadell and personally never had an issue. I dont pay anything in charges but I do have mortgage, insurance for house, life insurance etc with them.

A colleague recently had the issues you're talking about with another bank so wanted to change. She was going to go to ING but wanted a "real bank" with local offices etc. So she went to several and finally changed to sabadell. She works full time so her nomina goes in every month but has no other products from banks. 

From what i understand, by moving her monthly bills to the account and contracting a credit card which she has to use a certain amount of times a month, she ia now paying no commissions or fees. 

Worth asking what you can do to avoid fees. If its as simple as taking a credit card, you can use it day to day, pay in full each month so no interest etc 

I have always found sabadell quite nice to work with and helpful so hopefully they'll find a solution for you!


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## CherryPie11

xicoalc said:


> Im also with sabadell and personally never had an issue. I dont pay anything in charges but I do have mortgage, insurance for house, life insurance etc with them.
> 
> A colleague recently had the issues you're talking about with another bank so wanted to change. She was going to go to ING but wanted a "real bank" with local offices etc. So she went to several and finally changed to sabadell. She works full time so her nomina goes in every month but has no other products from banks.
> 
> From what i understand, by moving her monthly bills to the account and contracting a credit card which she has to use a certain amount of times a month, she ia now paying no commissions or fees.
> 
> Worth asking what you can do to avoid fees. If its as simple as taking a credit card, you can use it day to day, pay in full each month so no interest etc
> 
> I have always found sabadell quite nice to work with and helpful so hopefully they'll find a solution for you!


Thanks for your reply... maybe a credit card is the solution, but I'm not happy about that.

As I've already stated, I have been with them since 2011, I work full time and my "nomina" is paid into my account monthly, in excess of 1,000 Euros. I have a car loan, life and accident insurance, and payment protection insurance - both insurance policies clearly show on my account details. All of my monthly bills are paid from this account too, so I do not understand how they can suddenly change my account type and start charging me! I was specifically told I would NOT be charged with a "Cuenta Expansion" at the beginning, then in November 2019 I was told things would change from January 2020 and that unless I took out insurance with them, I'd be charged from then on. I then took out a car loan and the insurance policies associated [Nov '19]...These charges are "desde 24 Octubre, hasta 24 Diciembre 2020", and the change to "Cuenta Relacion" must have happened when the charges were applied, which makes absolutely no sense whatsoever! Incidently, I also use Sabadell Wallet, and Bizum [which seems to have magically vanished from my apps and Google Playstore!] to make free transfers to other Sabadell accounts.

I also found them very helpful and nice to work with in the past - something has changed! If they don't reimburse me, change my account back to the one I opened, and promise NEVER to charge me again without prior warning, I WILL take my business elsewhere. Yes, it will be a lot of hassle, BUT they have to learn that this is OUR money and THEY need our custom! Sorry, did I mention I was furious???


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## Pesky Wesky

CherryPie11 said:


> Thanks for your reply... maybe a credit card is the solution, but I'm not happy about that.
> 
> As I've already stated, I have been with them since 2011, I work full time and my "nomina" is paid into my account monthly, in excess of 1,000 Euros. I have a car loan, life and accident insurance, and payment protection insurance - both insurance policies clearly show on my account details. All of my monthly bills are paid from this account too, so I do not understand how they can suddenly change my account type and start charging me! I was specifically told I would NOT be charged with a "Cuenta Expansion" at the beginning, then in November 2019 I was told things would change from January 2020 and that unless I took out insurance with them, I'd be charged from then on. I then took out a car loan and the insurance policies associated [Nov '19]...These charges are "desde 24 Octubre, hasta 24 Diciembre 2020", and the change to "Cuenta Relacion" must have happened when the charges were applied, which makes absolutely no sense whatsoever! Incidently, I also use Sabadell Wallet, and Bizum [which seems to have magically vanished from my apps and Google Playstore!] to make free transfers to other Sabadell accounts.
> 
> I also found them very helpful and nice to work with in the past - something has changed! If they don't reimburse me, change my account back to the one I opened, and promise NEVER to charge me again without prior warning, I WILL take my business elsewhere. Yes, it will be a lot of hassle, BUT they have to learn that this is OUR money and THEY need our custom! Sorry, did I mention I was furious???


I would be furious too. I don't know how it can be legal to do that.
In the UK about 2 years ago my father's electric company was suddenly changed without his knowledge or consent, so strange things happen in other countries too!


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## xicoalc

CherryPie11 said:


> Sorry, did I mention I was furious???


Lol you don't say!

I agree, to simply change things with no notice is wrong. It seems all the banks are at it. Let us know how you get on! Good luck!


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## alpinist

We had this with Sabadell too. I liked the managers but they seemed to change every 6 months so it was impossible to keep a chain of contact.
We used to keep our Expansion accounts going over the summer (when we didn't work) by simply transferring 700€ back and forth but as others have noted, they changed the rules so this was no longer enough (think they wanted direct debits too). We ended up paying a fair whack in quarterly charges before we could get the accounts closed from abroad last year (2020). The local branch initially insisted on us coming in person to do it, but relented with COVID etc. Still managed to get a few more highly questionable fees out of us for transferring our money away to other accounts though: 1€20 between Sabadell accounts, 4€ to other Spanish accounts, and complete pot luck to other SEPA Euro accounts!


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## CherryPie11

Ok, I have phoned the number, kindly provided by someone above, and sorted it all out.


The problem has come from the "lockdown" in March, when I was put on ERTE. That meant less than the required 700 Euros a month was being paid into my account. If this happens for 2 consecutive months, your account automatically reverts to a "cuenta relacion", and charges are applied. The assistant I spoke to is contacting my branch manager, and my account will be restored and the fees refunded. He said that I should have been informed that this was going to happen by email, but I can't find anything... He told me that if anything, like the "lockdown", happens again to get in touch with my branch manager and they can over-ride the action.

So thank you very much for this forum, and specifically this thread. It has helped me to resolve the problem quickly and easily. I hope that anyone else in the same situation will be able to do the same. 👏👏👏😁


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## Roy C

On the subject of banks, we still have our non resident account with Sabadell but the guy in our village bank asks us to change to them Unicaja. Does anybody have any experience of this bank? We pay our gym and Padel tennis there so are in a few times a month and I'm thinking maybe i will move as i now need a resident account.


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## xicoalc

Roy C said:


> On the subject of banks, we still have our non resident account with Sabadell but the guy in our village bank asks us to change to them Unicaja. Does anybody have any experience of this bank? We pay our gym and Padel tennis there so are in a few times a month and I'm thinking maybe i will move as i now need a resident account.


Id ask for the full conditions that both banks offer for resident accounts and weigh up which is best for you. 

Banks are banks. It really is 6 of one and half a dozen of the other. 

As I've said many times, personally I have nothing against sabadell. They always have been good to me. One thing about sabadell (and i cant comment on others as i dont know) is that the branch managers are really bank managers. Thats to say that they are like bank managers used to be 20 years ago in the uk and can do things.

In the past when ive needed a loan the manager has said yes and done. My mortgage was agreed by the manager and not by a computer and they have always been fair to me (well, banks always do whats best for them and win anyway) but even when covid kicked in, she called me to ask if i was working or on erte and to see if we needed anything etc. 

If you're looking for a simple account to pay your bills then find out who offers you the most you need.... Charges, which atm network is free and so on.


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## alpinist

xicoalc said:


> One thing about sabadell (and i cant comment on others as i dont know) is that the branch managers are really bank managers. Thats to say that they are like bank managers used to be 20 years ago in the uk and can do things.


It's possibly a (western) European banking thing as La Caixa are the same, as were my two banks in France. Sadly, I learnt the hard way there that there are issues with vesting all that power in one person as if something goes wrong when the manager is unavailable for a few days, you're screwed until they return. Perhaps in Spain they have a back-up nominee - luckily haven't had to find out.


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## xicoalc

_Si_ said:


> It's possibly a (western) European banking thing as La Caixa are the same, as were my two banks in France. Sadly, I learnt the hard way there that there are issues with vesting all that power in one person as if something goes wrong when the manager is unavailable for a few days, you're screwed until they return. Perhaps in Spain they have a back-up nominee - luckily haven't had to find out.


Thats true. And who knows where banks will go as they are all cutting back on branches etc


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## Frank F

Williams2 said:


> *Heads up on Bank Sabadell charges for International Transfers to a bank account
> in the UK after the transition period ends on 31st December 2020*
> 
> As many are no doubt aware there are no bank charges ( other than what might be
> hidden in the exchange rate ) for making International Transfers from a Spanish
> bank account to another bank account in a Country thats a member of the
> European Union. Naturally if the transfer of money is between Eurozone countries,
> eg from Spain to the Republic of Ireland, you don't even have to think about
> exchange rates on such a bank transfer.
> 
> Once the UK is completely divorced from the European Union ( after 31/12/2020 or
> later depending on if there's an extension )
> Then a typical bank transfer will be about 33.35 Euros per International Transfer
> from a bank account in Spain to a bank account in the UK unless the amount
> being transferred is 50,000 Euros or more when the transfer fee will be higher.
> 
> No doubt British banks will also be slapping on International fees once the
> transition period is over as well.



What if the UK bank is in the SEPA system, there should be no charge. UK banks may have correspondent banks / branches within the EU or European banking licences. Vice Versa!


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