# Will tourism recover?



## bob_bob (Jan 5, 2011)

Will tourism in Spain recover?

I'm talking about your typical family holiday on the beach soaking up sun and beer.

On my searches for cheap flights and looking at alternative destinations doubt has crept into my mind as to whether Spain will pull the punters back to highs of a few years ago.

For instance, Bristol to Gran Canaria flight for me £120 return, book an apartment online so single traveler holiday self catering for £350. As a single traveller there is no way I could book that deal with the big tourist companies because I would get zapped with under occupancy fees.

The cost of a two week all inclusive to Cuba, Goa or the Dominican Republic is now about the same as a two weeker in Benidorm, certainly in high season.

Bulgaria is on the up we are told, good accommodation and again can cost less than Spain for what you get.

A lot of folk I worked with were looking at long haul holidays due to good pricing and it seems the weekend away is becoming fashionable again, also due a lot to Ryanair and Easyjet or BMI. Younger folk with a few quid in their pockets seem to be looking at far off shores too, my own lad is off to Goa and two nephews of mine have been to Goa and Vietnam for holidays.

So do you think things will return to the old days or have tastes changed, have the days of tourists being happy with salad, chicken and chips over (I know there is more to Spain)? Are the tourists who can afford holidays now thinking "been there, done that, lets try something new"?


----------



## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Hopefully people are moving away from the sun-and-booze type holidays which are responsible for the devastation of hundreds of miles of Spain's coastline.

The sort of tourists Spain needs will come here and explore inland as well as coastal areas - the cities, the history, the culture, the natural parks and many sporting opportunities. And yes, I believe these sorts of activities are on the increase. 

Where I live, mountain-biking, climbing, birdwatching, hiking etc have long attracted tourists from Germany, Holland and other northern European countries, now gradually the Brits are cottoning on too.


----------



## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

It seems to me that as airtravel gets cheaper and easier, Spain is becoming as the UK holiday became a few years ago - So who knows?? Whats happening to "Butlins" etc? Spain will always appeal to those who dont want to travel far, but still want nice weather and lets be honest, if you have a couple of small restless kids, Spain and a two hour flight has got to be more appealing than an eight hour flight to the dominican republic. Cos if you're staying and planning to stay within a resort, it really doesnt make much difference where you are!

Jo xxx


----------



## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Alcalaina said:


> Hopefully people are moving away from the sun-and-booze type holidays which are responsible for the devastation of hundreds of miles of Spain's coastline.


Like it or like it not, it was that which brought Spain its prosperity in the first place. As for whether its dying out or not - well who knows, if it dies out in Spain, it'll start up somewhere else!

Jo xxx


----------



## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

I don't think Spain will regain its position for the reasons the OP mentions and I'm not so sure that Spain needs the cheaper kind of tourism.
Currently Spain's tourist industry has slashed prices by an average 20% to gain a mere 1% increase in tourist numbers in 2010. This is not viable for any business sector.
Alcalaina is right. The cheap booze and sun holidays are not going to bring propsperity to Spain. An attraction like the Guggenheim Museum brings in more 'quality' visitors who spend more money (and dare I say behave better) than those who come to neck cheap lager and pass out on the beach in some Costa resorts.
We have very few tourists of any nationality in my neck of the woods as there are only two good hotels within a 5km radius and most people who visit come to their homes on the coast in the summer. Most are Madrilenos but I've noticed more French this year.
Very few Brits.
This is a rare oasis of tranquility, very family-friendly, not a burger bar or nightclub within miles.


----------



## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Spain certainly needs to re invent itself. Its stagnating and looks quite shabby and tired. I'm not sure it appeals to the more discerning traveller - well not on a regular basis, they may spend more, but there arent as many of them, nor would they make repeat and regular trips! Families are a good type of visitor as they tend to stick to tried and trusted resorts and come for "fun in the sun" - but a bit of everything is needed really!

I'd like to see a mammoth "disneyworld" type thing that would make the one in Paris pale into insignificance, as that would bring work, trade, and prosperity to Spain again. But the investment isnt here

Jo xxx


----------



## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Visitors from the US are rising sharply - up 32% last year. 
Spain's tourist numbers are up 4.5% in July 2010

The government are also predicting (or at least hoping for) a big increase in tourists coming from China and Russia, which should help balance the numbers.

Spain Trying to Open the Door to Chinese and Russian Tourists | Barcelona Apartments Blog.


----------



## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

jojo said:


> Spain certainly needs to re invent itself. Its stagnating and looks quite shabby and tired. I'm not sure it appeals to the more discerning traveller - well not on a regular basis, they may spend more, but there arent as many of them, nor would they make repeat and regular trips! Families are a good type of visitor as they tend to stick to tried and trusted resorts and come for "fun in the sun" - but a bit of everything is needed really!
> 
> I'd like to see a mammoth "disneyworld" type thing that would make the one in Paris pale into insignificance, as that would bring work, trade, and prosperity to Spain again. But the investment isnt here
> 
> Jo xxx


Family holidays certainly - and more attractions like Isla Magica in Seville. But not another Disneyworld, as the profits would just go back to the USA. 

Another encouraging trend is that the season is getting longer. Instead of sticking to the traditional holiday months of July and August, more Europeans are taking holidays at other times of the year these days and this can only be good for Spain with its mild autumns and sunny springs.

The Alhambra in Granada is Europe's most popular tourist attraction. Cities like Cuenca, Sevilla, Cordoba and Toledo are starting to get in on the act too, benefiting from all our new roads and railways, and a lot of restoration work on the old buildings.


----------



## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

Spain has so many wonderful places to visit. I'm working myself around the world heritage sites slowly  Sadly though, it's not what the majority of holiday makers are looking for I'm afraid.

Disney world Hmmmm ... well, I'm guessing it would not do too well. The Paris one by all accounts didnt do as well as they hoped.

Maybe Spain ought to actually promote the world heritage sites and the areas away from the Costas. I think most people I speak to just think of Spain as a beach and bar relax type holiday


----------



## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Alcalaina said:


> Visitors from the US are rising sharply - up 32% last year.
> Spain's tourist numbers are up 4.5% in July 2010
> 
> The government are also predicting (or at least hoping for) a big increase in tourists coming from China and Russia, which should help balance the numbers.
> ...


And they will spend more money!!
Some people round here move out of their houses and rent to Russians during the summer months..at around 3000 euros plus a week...
We have friends who do this...one moves to her mother's, the others have a motorhome.


----------



## 90199 (Mar 21, 2010)

I shall be taking my holidays in Spain, Granada in the spring and no doubt somewhere else for late summer. Last year I very much enjoyed Asturias.

Will it recover? I never experienced the holidays in the boom years, so cannot really comment. I stayed in Benidorm once in the 90's but won't be returning there.

Tourism here on El Hierro is not really promoted at all, and we gain the impression that the local government discourage tourists. I think they have seen what has happened to the southern resorts on the islands of Tenerife and Gran Canaria and that has put them off northern European visitors. The Tourists that do arrive in the main are from the other islands or the Iberian peninsular.

In time when Europe beats the recession tourism will recover but I suspect you may have a different type of tourist,

Hepa


----------



## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Stravinsky said:


> Spain has so many wonderful places to visit. I'm working myself around the world heritage sites slowly  Sadly though, it's not what the majority of holiday makers are looking for I'm afraid.
> 
> Disney world Hmmmm ... well, I'm guessing it would not do too well. The Paris one by all accounts didnt do as well as they hoped.
> 
> Maybe Spain ought to actually promote the world heritage sites and the areas away from the Costas. I think most people I speak to just think of Spain as a beach and bar relax type holiday


Well, it has been advertising itself in a "different" way for quite some time now
Green Spain in Spain | Tourism in Spain | Spain.info in english

This was the 2010 campaign which, although still includes plenty of beach scenes (especially the first ad - get to the last few) also shows the Prado, Camino de Santiago, the Alhambra, football, golf...





Over the years turismo rural has become huge.
Casas rurales en España. Toprural

Also spas,Balnearios, Hoteles, SPA y Talasoterapia en España Portugal y Andorra | SPA Natura 

wine tourism Asociación Española de Enoturismo y Turismo Gastronómico

and golf (Unfortunately. Most of the areas that promote golf don't have adequate water supplies and will do long term damage to the environment. Look at this Impact of golf courses: social, environmental and economic). 


Many of these markets, notably rural turism attract a mainly Spanish market. Prices are good and quality is high.

That's where I hope tourism in Spain is going for the time being


----------



## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Stravinsky said:


> Disney world Hmmmm ... well, I'm guessing it would not do too well. The Paris one by all accounts didnt do as well as they hoped.


I think the Paris one has done badly because of its climate and location. If there was one in Spain, a two week family holiday could be broken up into a week at the amusement park and then a week at the costas between march and october and is much more do-able than it is in Paris, where the climate is pretty much the same as the UK and is nowhere near any beaches or holiday resorts! I never understood how Paris won the location over Spain in the first place. 



Jo xxx


----------



## bob_bob (Jan 5, 2011)

Prague is getting its share of 'younger' folk , stag and hen nights etc. I first went around 2000, very nice and cheap as chips, last went in 2009 and obviously still a beautifull city but certainly the bar prices have shot and there are more brits drunk on the streets now.

As said by others I believe the family 'all in' holiday will appeal to familys, certainly those with young children and perhaps more up market holidays to the 'secret' Spain will improve; I for one hope so.

For me Spain is quick to get to, cheap to get to, good weather and if you can afford to eat and drink in the UK you can afford to in Spain.

My daughter is on a girls weekend in London, last night in a club it was £22 for a bottle of wine Vodka, by the bottle was £100 and guess what, youngsters were buying it.


----------



## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Stravinsky said:


> Maybe Spain ought to actually promote the world heritage sites and the areas away from the Costas. I think most people I speak to just think of Spain as a beach and bar relax type holiday



The trouble with heritage type holidays is that its only a select few and I'm not sure that they would be the major "money spenders". Yes, that should be promoted, but at the same time Spain needs to show it is still a place for families with young children - and anyone who has had young kids knows what an ordeal it is to visit to many "places of interest" when theres a beach and swimming pool waiting back at the hotel.

Spain needs to take a long hard look at itself tho, the costas are now becoming very dated and shabby and their historical places of interest do need to be promoted

Jo xxx


----------



## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

bob_bob said:


> As said by others I believe the family 'all in' holiday will appeal to familys, certainly those with young children and perhaps more up market holidays to the 'secret' Spain will improve; I for one hope so.


 I'm not sure the "all in" holidays are good for business in the area tho. It encourages terrible waste and it doesnt encourage people to venture out of their hotels and sample what else the country has to offer

Jo xxx


----------



## jimenato (Nov 21, 2009)

jojo said:


> I think the Paris one has done badly because of its climate and location. If there was one in Spain, a two week family holiday could be broken up into a week at the amusement park and then a week at the costas between march and october and is much more do-able than it is in Paris, where the climate is pretty much the same as the UK and is nowhere near any beaches or holiday resorts! I never understood how Paris won the location over Spain in the first place.
> 
> 
> 
> Jo xxx


I always wondered that. The only think I can think of is that it is near the Northern European centres of dense population and they thought that it would make it easier for Brits, Germans, Dutch etc. to get there. Always thought it was a daft decision. 

There has been talk of a Disney in Estepona since I've been here (over 10 years) but nothing's come of it. I don't like the idea myself but it surely would be a big boost to the local economy - maybe profits would go to America but think of the jobs created in building and then running it and all the local suppliers would benefit too.


----------



## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

jimenato said:


> There has been talk of a Disney in Estepona since I've been here (over 10 years) but nothing's come of it. I don't like the idea myself but it surely would be a big boost to the local economy - maybe profits would go to America but think of the jobs created in building and then running it and all the local suppliers would benefit too.



My thoughts exactly! Its not somewhere that I would ever want to go to, my kids might altho they're probably a bit old now!? But it would benefit the country and its not as if Spain is short on space for something like this - and yes direct and the indirect employment would certainly solve some issues!

Jo xxx


----------



## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

jojo said:


> I think the Paris one has done badly because of its climate and location. If there was one in Spain, a two week family holiday could be broken up into a week at the amusement park and then a week at the costas between march and october and is much more do-able than it is in Paris, where the climate is pretty much the same as the UK and is nowhere near any beaches or holiday resorts! I never understood how Paris won the location over Spain in the first place.
> 
> 
> 
> Jo xxx


our local theme park, Terra Mítica, all but closes in the winter

from mid oct to mid may it's pretty much open only at weekends - except for Easter & the fiesta week at the beginning of december


I really don't understand why tbh:confused2:


----------



## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

xabiachica said:


> our local theme park, Terra Mítica, all but closes in the winter
> 
> from mid oct to mid may it's pretty much open only at weekends - except for Easter & the fiesta week at the beginning of december
> 
> ...



There are a few fairly large amusement/theme parks in Spain already, but they dont seem to be advertised or have the same amount of publicity or fame as the "Disneyworlds" They probably arent as good

Jo xxx


----------



## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

jojo said:


> There are a few fairly large amusement/theme parks in Spain already, but they dont seem to be advertised or have the same amount of publicity or fame as the "Disneyworlds" They probably arent as good
> 
> Jo xxx


I love Terra Mítica - not as flashy or as big as Disney or Universal studios in Florida - but great rides!!

we went to Disney Paris a loong time ago - don't think it had been open long

it was freezing & raining - bloody expensive too - and have to say I don't think any of us really enjoyed it, even though the kids were about the right age


----------



## VFR (Dec 23, 2009)

Yes tourism will recover a piece IMO, as all the people who visit Egypt & Tunisia (and Morocco?) are *likely* to consider Spain as the safe destination in these troubled times.
Yes Spain has no pyramids & the diving cannot compete, well having said that there is some really good diving locations near Cueta.


----------



## gus-lopez (Jan 4, 2010)

My brother-in-laws wife booked him a holiday to Egypt for his birthday 2 weeks ago ! I think she's trying to tell him something. :rofl:


----------



## bob_bob (Jan 5, 2011)

jojo said:


> I'm not sure the "all in" holidays are good for business in the area tho. It encourages terrible waste and it doesnt encourage people to venture out of their hotels and sample what else the country has to offer
> 
> Jo xxx


I agree Jo, but its horses for courses, young family, couple of children on a once a year (or once every couple of years) holiday and the all in option has a lot of pulling power when the budget is tight and mom and dad don't have to say 'no' to the ice cream/food/cola requests of the family.

I've not been all inclusive in Spain, but did in Cuba and while the food was pretty good to be honest the waste was awful.


----------



## lynn (Sep 25, 2008)

bob_bob said:


> I agree Jo, but its horses for courses, young family, couple of children on a once a year (or once every couple of years) holiday and the all in option has a lot of pulling power when the budget is tight and mom and dad don't have to say 'no' to the ice cream/food/cola requests of the family.
> 
> I've not been all inclusive in Spain, but did in Cuba and while the food was pretty good to be honest the waste was awful.


I just don't get the argument that on a holiday, children are demanding expensive icecreams/drinks/snacks/ etc and therefore the all inclusive holiday saves the headache. My children have never been a problem either on holiday or at home with 'demands'. They haven't ever been bothered about the latest expensive designer brands either. We haven't been on an all inclusive deal, although we have stayed in a hotel where others were on all inclusive, but we were room only. We paid for one day as all inclusive, and after the first couple of rounds of sickly drinks from the swim up bar, the kids quickly got bored of the whole thing. 
Years ago, some friends were in an all inclusive in San Pedro down the coast. We went to visit them for the day, and couldn't wait to leave. There were 'gangs' of kids causing all sorts of problems. They set fire to a palm tree, and more worryingly, pushed my lad in the pool when he couldn't swim. Luckily, we were supervising our children, and were quickly on the scene to fish him out, but I got the impression that most of the kids had no supervision whatsoever.


----------



## 90199 (Mar 21, 2010)

playamonte said:


> Yes tourism will recover a piece IMO, as all the people who visit Egypt & Tunisia (and Morocco?) are *likely* to consider Spain as the safe destination in these troubled times.
> Yes Spain has no pyramids & the diving cannot compete, well having said that there is some really good diving locations near Cueta.


The diving here is world famous, have a look at the one of many web sites,

Scuba Diving in El Hierro

Hepa


----------



## nigele2 (Dec 25, 2009)

Hepa said:


> The diving here is world famous, have a look at the one of many web sites,
> 
> Scuba Diving in El Hierro
> 
> Hepa


Have dived the islands, and no doubt will again, and there are some great dives to be had and importantly at all levels. However I think diving is not too good for spanish employment or the economy. When I go I am focused on diving. With costs (including you kit and insurance) at £100 a dive it is necessary. While I'm there I don't spend a lot outside of diving and many of the businesses are brit owned.

ps. most of the £100 stays outside of spain.


----------



## 90199 (Mar 21, 2010)

nigele2 said:


> Have dived the islands, and no doubt will again, and there are some great dives to be had and importantly at all levels. However I think diving is not too good for spanish employment or the economy. When I go I am focused on diving. With costs (including you kit and insurance) at £100 a dive it is necessary. While I'm there I don't spend a lot outside of diving and many of the businesses are brit owned.
> 
> ps. most of the £100 stays outside of spain.


Here the schools are not owned by British people, who owns them I do not know. However having said that, the most southerly town in the Canaries, La Restinga, benefits from the persons that dive, they have to eat and the place has a thriving food outlets and many apartments, also the bars seem to benefit,

Hepa


----------



## fourgotospain (May 4, 2009)

> While I'm there I don't spend a lot outside of diving and many of the businesses are brit owned.
> ps. most of the £100 stays outside of spain.


But don't the brits live in Spain? Many of our suppliers also deliver to Benidorm and are telling us that trade has been CRUSHED by the all-inc resorts there. Small businesses are being so badly hit as tourists never set foot outside the hotel. What many people don't understand is that the money spent with small businesses often goes straight back into the local economy as the owners pay for things locally too. I can think of at least 7 self employed people that we support because we earn our money here.


----------



## nigele2 (Dec 25, 2009)

Hepa said:


> Here the schools are not owned by British people, who owns them I do not know. However having said that, the most southerly town in the Canaries, La Restinga, benefits from the persons that dive, they have to eat and the place has a thriving food outlets and many apartments, also the bars seem to benefit,
> 
> Hepa


Agreed but this is not going to stimulate the necessary job growth to impact spain. Your average dive centre cannot handle more than 20 people per day. If you go diving you don't do one dive so the number per week is not going to exceed 40 - and that's a dizzy dream for most dive centres. At the moment 6 nights accommodation and 10 dives costs less than 300 Euros at La Restinga! Remembering all the imported equipment and the fees to PADI (for the majority) and one can see this is not a big make money venture.

Yes divers eat and you have to sit and chat about the days dives because for sure below we tend not to chat too much  However early to bed and avoiding excessive alcohol doesn't make us big spenders.

Don't get me wrong I love the islands and the diving there but it will not compete with the Red Sea, the Azores and other locations around the world, many of which cost little more than Spain but can offer so much more to the diver. I think the solution for spain lies elsewhere


----------



## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

lynn;449868Years ago said:


> I will no doubt be considered snobbish for saying this: but therein lies the problem.
> Lower your prices and you'll get a less desireable type of visitor.
> Now...before people rush to their keyboards in righteous indignation...I'm not saying all people who go for cheap holidays don't know how to behave. When I was a child we couldn't afford anything other than cheap holidays but we knew how to behave. The antics of the better-off in Marbella are as bad.
> How many people will be put off by the kind of thing you describe and never return?
> ...


----------



## nigele2 (Dec 25, 2009)

mrypg9 said:


> Spain should compete on quality not price.


YES YES YES. Mary I now appoint you head of tourism development 

If Wales can make a success of tourism why can't spain? It has bigger, better and more castles, less rain, Paradores, Museums, culture, great food, cheap transport .... Wales has choirs and rugby 

Sorry no disrespect to the principality. Just hope they don't enjoy next Friday


----------



## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

nigele2 said:


> YES YES YES. Mary I now appoint you head of tourism development
> 
> If Wales can make a success of tourism why can't spain? It has bigger, better and more castles, less rain, Paradores, Museums, culture, great food, cheap transport .... Wales has choirs and rugby
> 
> Sorry no disrespect to the principality. Just hope they don't enjoy next Friday


Nigel, I'm past it!! But a nice thought. If I had my way I'd inspect people at the borders and turn away the 'undesireables'....
Have another Badger on me
Seriously, though, Spain has world-class attractions that most people who come for sun sand booze etc. neither know nor care about.
The Alhambra, the Picasso Museum, the Guggenheim Museum, the Sagrada cathedral, the Gaudi house etc. etc. not to mention stunning scenery both coastal and inland. 
But it's always marketed on the basis of the sun'n'sea ....


----------



## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

lynn said:


> I just don't get the argument that on a holiday, children are demanding expensive icecreams/drinks/snacks/ etc and therefore the all inclusive holiday saves the headache. My children have never been a problem either on holiday or at home with 'demands'. They haven't ever been bothered about the latest expensive designer brands either. We haven't been on an all inclusive deal, although we have stayed in a hotel where others were on all inclusive, but we were room only. We paid for one day as all inclusive, and after the first couple of rounds of sickly drinks from the swim up bar, the kids quickly got bored of the whole thing.
> Years ago, some friends were in an all inclusive in San Pedro down the coast. We went to visit them for the day, and couldn't wait to leave. There were 'gangs' of kids causing all sorts of problems. They set fire to a palm tree, and more worryingly, pushed my lad in the pool when he couldn't swim. Luckily, we were supervising our children, and were quickly on the scene to fish him out, but I got the impression that most of the kids had no supervision whatsoever.



I so agree with this! If you go on holiday, its not just about wanting and getting, its about learning a little about another country! To simply incarcerate the whole family into one resort for two weeks cos everything is free and available must be incredibly boring. Ok, so in the past my kids havent really wanted to go and see that monastery that chopin and his "lover" stayed in, but its something they learnt a little from and still remember and it also made them aware of the country they were in (Valdemossa in Majorca!!!). They still remember it! Its all about compromise and fun for the whole family!


Jo xxx


----------



## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

nigele2 said:


> YES YES YES. Mary I now appoint you head of tourism development
> 
> If Wales can make a success of tourism why can't spain? It has bigger, better and more castles, less rain, Paradores, Museums, culture, great food, cheap transport .... Wales has choirs and rugby
> 
> Sorry no disrespect to the principality. Just hope they don't enjoy next Friday


Ahem - one or two castles in Wales too, Nigel!!


----------



## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

mrypg9 said:


> Nigel, I'm past it!! But a nice thought. If I had my way I'd inspect people at the borders and turn away the 'undesireables'....
> Have another Badger on me
> Seriously, though, Spain has world-class attractions that most people who come for sun sand booze etc. neither know nor care about.
> The Alhambra, the Picasso Museum, the Guggenheim Museum, the Sagrada cathedral, the Gaudi house etc. etc. not to mention stunning scenery both coastal and inland.
> *But it's always marketed on the basis of the sun'n'sea ...*.


That's just not true! If you look at the FITUR agenda (Feria Internacional de Turismo) Spain is are heavily promoting all these other attractions, and there are many, many tourists, especially retired people, who don't come here for the booze and beaches. As I said above, tourists come from all over the world, not just the UK. In the US market, Spain is the new Italy and an absolute must on any European tour. 

Of course the sun'n'sea market is important to the economy and Spain is still Britain's favourite destination for people who want that.


----------



## 90199 (Mar 21, 2010)

fourgotospain said:


> But don't the brits live in Spain? Many of our suppliers also deliver to Benidorm and are telling us that trade has been CRUSHED by the all-inc resorts there. Small businesses are being so badly hit as tourists never set foot outside the hotel. What many people don't understand is that the money spent with small businesses often goes straight back into the local economy as the owners pay for things locally too. I can think of at least 7 self employed people that we support because we earn our money here.


The taxi drivers on Tenerife have taken a huge reduction in business,

Hepa


----------



## bob_bob (Jan 5, 2011)

Can't agree with you Jo, my two are now grown but looking about many young children these days want it all now and more tommorow. The xbox culture we live in has given us a generation of youngsters who demand instant gratification and this seems worse amongst people who don't earn a great deal or are on benefits and giving in to demands is a form of compensation for having nothing. In my house before I divorced we had four degrees and one masters between the four of us, some families near me never got higher than being a milk monitor in School and that break is Spain is or was a way to vent steam not just for the parent(s) but the children.

That said, some of the supposed 'middle class' families I had to deal with in my job had no manners and were often rude and curt; so I daresay their darling Harry or Jacinda would be no fun to meet in the dinner line of an all inclusive holiday either.


----------



## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

bob_bob said:


> That said, some of the supposed 'middle class' families I had to deal with in my job had no manners and were often rude and curt; so I daresay their darling Harry or Jacinda would be no fun to meet in the dinner line of an all inclusive holiday either.


:clap2::clap2::clap2:


----------



## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

bob_bob said:


> Can't agree with you Jo, my two are now grown but looking about many young children these days want it all now and more tommorow. The xbox culture we live in has given us a generation of youngsters who demand instant gratification and this seems worse amongst people who don't earn a great deal or are on benefits and giving in to demands is a form of compensation for having nothing. In my house before I divorced we had four degrees and one masters between the four of us, some families near me never got higher than being a milk monitor in School and that break is Spain is or was a way to vent steam not just for the parent(s) but the children.
> 
> That said, some of the supposed 'middle class' families I had to deal with in my job had no manners and were often rude and curt; so I daresay their darling Harry or Jacinda would be no fun to meet in the dinner line of an all inclusive holiday either.


Well maybe thats the trouble with the world today. I have two "batches" of children, I have grown up kids in the UK and two younger ones here with me in Spain. Regardless of how rich or poor I've been (and I have flitted between both during my life) or whether or not my kids have Xboxes. I KNOW that giving into every whim (even on holiday) does not make a child happy or well behaved. 

Interestingly my daughters work as cabin crew on long haul flights and very often stay with their passengers in all inc resorts and they think they are disgusting places (even the "posh" resorts). They say that just the fact that everything is "free" and readily available turns most visitors into wasteful, dissatisfied and greedy! There is waste and mess left everywhere and there is no respect for the resort. They much prefer going to resorts where its just half or full board. 

My main objection tho is that it brings little prosperity to the area and it stops people wanting to venture out and explore! Sounds grim and very boring to me! We always used to go half board or just B&B which suited us and gave us the best of both worlds

Jo xxx


----------



## 90199 (Mar 21, 2010)

Any tourists are good for the local economy, divers, walkers or whatever. They keep the local chefs, waiters, taxi drivers, hire car companies, mechanics, hoteliers, ferry and airport employees, in work. Whether 22 or 122 all make a vital difference

The tourists do not have to be your lager swilling, Roast beef Yorkshire pudding, full English breakfast, eating type of persons that frequent the other parts of Spain. In fact if they arrive they only last a day or two.

Here we have different tourists, they come to walk, dive, watch birds (feathered or otherwise), hike in the winter sunshine, or just to relax, swim in the sea and partake of the local cuisine.

Many return but all stimulate the economy, and sooner here than the dreaded Red Sea, gets rather warm there!

Hepa


----------



## nigele2 (Dec 25, 2009)

Hepa said:


> Any tourists are good for the local economy, divers, walkers or whatever. They keep the local chefs, waiters, taxi drivers, hire car companies, mechanics, hoteliers, ferry and airport employees, in work. Whether 22 or 122 all make a vital difference


Very true but some are worth more than others 



Hepa said:


> The tourists do not have to be your lager swilling, Roast beef Yorkshire pudding, full English breakfast, eating type of persons that frequent the other parts of Spain. In fact if they arrive they only last a day or two.


Worse than divers but I suspect easier to find in large numbers  



Hepa said:


> Here we have different tourists, they come to walk, dive, watch birds (feathered or otherwise), hike in the winter sunshine, or just to relax, swim in the sea and partake of the local cuisine.


Hepa I wish you would not say that. You'll be getting an influx of tourists and I will find it crowded and more expensive 



Hepa said:


> Many return but all stimulate the economy, and sooner here than the dreaded Red Sea, gets rather warm there!


Actually it is at this moment much more comfortable at night there than on your island and only 2 degrees hotter in the day. But the wrecks and fish are much bigger, more frequent, and the water warmer :eyebrows:

Sorry Hepa only jealous of your island really. You strike me as a person who has found your paradise in life and I can understand why you are very proud of it. Not many people achieve such a high level of happiness/satisfaction. And when I get there, because I have set myself a target of visiting them all for a minimum of a week (4 down, three to go), I'll buy you a drink. Although on here I get the feeling we have a contradictory banter at times I get the feeling a relaxing beer on the water front with you would be a bees knees way to use a late afternoon watching the sun go down


----------



## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

mrypg9 said:


> I
> Spain should compete on quality not price.


May I say *again* rural tourism, green Spain , golf, wine tourism...


----------



## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Pesky Wesky said:


> May I say *again* rural tourism, green Spain , golf, wine tourism...



Spain is such a big and diverse country, it has enough room to service everyones needs and wants! Thats the beauty of it - something for everyone

Jo xxx


----------



## nigele2 (Dec 25, 2009)

jojo said:


> Spain is such a big and diverse country, it has enough room to service everyones needs and wants! Thats the beauty of it - something for everyone
> 
> Jo xxx


But the marketing men need something more precise. Offering everything is like offering nothing. It needs to deliver what it says on the tin


----------



## 90199 (Mar 21, 2010)

nigele2 said:


> Very true but some are worth more than others
> 
> 
> Hepa I wish you would not say that. You'll be getting an influx of tourists and I will find it crowded and more expensive
> ...


That sounds a good Idea! Bring your friends and family, we need the business,

Hepa


----------



## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Alcalaina said:


> That's just not true! If you look at the FITUR agenda (Feria Internacional de Turismo) Spain is are heavily promoting all these other attractions, and there are many, many tourists, especially retired people, who don't come here for the booze and beaches. As I said above, tourists come from all over the world, not just the UK. In the US market, Spain is the new Italy and an absolute must on any European tour.
> 
> Of course the sun'n'sea market is important to the economy and Spain is still Britain's favourite destination for people who want that.


In the UK -which still counts for the largest number of tourists in Spain - the emphasis is on sun and sea, I'm afraid.. 
TV and other mass media outlets do not promote these other attractions. Of course you find a different kind of advertising in the more 'refined' media....but it doesn't attract a mass readership as we know.
There is also a lot of advertising of golf holidays.
I think a shift in emphasis will come when businesspeople in the tourism sector realise that cutting prices won't increase profits.
Our village is quiet for ten months of the year but in July and August it's more busy with mainly French and Spanish people who come with families to their holiday homes or rented apartments to enjoy a traditional seaside holiday on a very quiet unspoilt beach.
They don't really stand out as tourists as they use local shops and the Friday market just like the 'indigenous'. Many come every year.
This morning I went to the bakery which opens for a few hours on Sundays . It was warm and sunny, blue skies, church bells, a few people sitting outside at the cafe, horses, donkeys, goats and sheep grazing nearby. 
It's not that much different in high summer, thankfully.


----------



## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

bob_bob said:


> .
> 
> That said, some of the supposed 'middle class' families I had to deal with in my job had no manners and were often rude and curt; so I daresay their darling Harry or Jacinda would be no fun to meet in the dinner line of an all inclusive holiday either.


There is a lowering of standards across all social classes. I blame the media which plays a major role in dumbing down. That and the uncertainty as to what education should actually be about.
I couldn't care less who Prince William gets married to but the fact that his his wife-to-be has an uncle who is a drug dealer residing in a house in Ibiza called the House of Sex and who allegedly greeted HRH with a jovial 'Hey f****r!' says it all.
O tempora! O mores!

My old peasant granny used to say that the only function of the monarchy was to set an example to the rest of us. Her ideal 'royal' was Queen Mary, consort of George fifth. I read the other day that she was a kleptomaniac who stole spoons etc. from people's houses when invited to dine (servants tactfully returned said items later).
My gran did not know this. She would have been very upset.
She maintained that the Duke of Edinburgh was a parasite and scrounger as in her opinion 'a man should work to support his wife'.
But I digress....


----------



## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

mrypg9 said:


> My old peasant granny used to say that the only function of the monarchy was to set an example to the rest of us. Her ideal 'royal' was Queen Mary, consort of George fifth. I read the other day that she was a kleptomaniac who stole spoons etc. from people's houses when invited to dine (servants tactfully returned said items later).
> My gran did not know this. She would have been very upset.
> She maintained that the Duke of Edinburgh was a parasite and scrounger as in her opinion 'a man should work to support his wife'.
> But I digress....



Your granny wasnt my father was she lol??? Cos thats almost word for word what he thought of the royals - yes, he always said that Prince Phil was a parasite and scrounger lol!!!!!
Jo xxx


----------



## VFR (Dec 23, 2009)

Fully Inclusive suits a good many family's for the simple reason of fixed cost (bye & large) 
The product employs locals, the fare is local, the drink is local (again bye & large)
Just what is so different about staying in a hotel on full board that has been going on for donkeys years, apart from throwing the drink in, and I cannot see how there would be anymore waste than the hotel, or indeed Butlins ?

I used to take F/Inclusive when Mexico first hit the brochures a good few years back & with young children at the time found it a good deal better as they could please themselves without felling they had to ask for this & that (hence they became so popular)
Now in those days the concept/resort/accommodation/fare was quite good quality in Mexico, but this never stopped us from visiting the local town & the old temples etc (same for most of the others guests)

We made the mistake of taking a F/Inclusive in Gran/C about 12 years ago & spent most of our time eating etc somewhere else other than that dump. Still I guess it suited many as it was cheap and cheerful.



Diving ?
Well Malta has always attracted thousands of divers a year who mainly stay in self catering & spend well of an evening (used to be the case) and bye & large the diving was just rubbish bubbles IMO. Having said that I was a UK wreck diver and the occasional cave (Cueta & Mexico) so I could be biased.
Spain though never figured on the horizon (to my knowledge) as a diving destination which is strange considering its coastline and the many wrecks that must lye offshore.


----------



## bob_bob (Jan 5, 2011)

Jo I agree about not giving in to every fancy of a child but that is your view or my view and sad as it may be we cannot enforce those views on others in society. I suspect I'm considered old fashioned by some but I stick to my views and standards of basic things like politeness, good table manners and awareness of others.

On a plus note 'received pronunciation', the Queens English is becoming fashionable again (at last). Children are now beginning to use their real accent as opposed to the guttural pigeon English adopted by so many youngsters in recent years.


----------



## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Ever felt like you're being ignored??????????????????????????????


----------



## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Ever felt like you're being ignored??????????????????????????????



I'm not ignoring you hun!!! :hug: I "quoted" you earlier!!!

Jo xxx


----------



## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

jojo said:


> I'm not ignoring you hun!!! :hug: I "quoted" you earlier!!!
> 
> Jo xxx


Ok. I'm obviously tired and cranky. Will go to bed


----------



## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Just one point about these 'all-inclusive' places....are they Spanish-owned? Do they source locally? Do they undercut local restaurants, cafes etc.?


----------



## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

mrypg9 said:


> Just one point about these 'all-inclusive' places....are they Spanish-owned? Do they source locally? Do they undercut local restaurants, cafes etc.?



Most I think are corporate owned, they probably do source most things locally (so they do put something into the community) and without doubt they undercut local restaurants and cafes, afterall, if you've paid for all inc. you're less likely to go out and buy anything from anywhere

Jo xxx


----------



## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

jojo said:


> Most I think are corporate owned, they probably do source most things locally (so they do put something into the community) and without doubt they undercut local restaurants and cafes, afterall, if you've paid for all inc. you're less likely to go out and buy anything from anywhere
> 
> Jo xxx


That's what I thought.
I would hate to stay in such a place.
But then as I often say, _Sobre los gustos no hay disputos._
I'm going to the dogs.
Literally.


----------



## Caz.I (Mar 21, 2009)

Well I have mixed feelings about these all-inclusive holidays.

Last year I went on a organised holiday for single parents (who were mainly Spanish) and I seemed to be the only one in the Group who opted not to do all inclusive. I thought it would work out cheaper opting for half board and anyway, I dont like being confined to one place. As it happened, it was very quiet where we were and there wasnt that much nearby (although there was a small shopping centre with cafes and restaurants which was totally dead during the day). 

I was wishing I had opted for all inclusive, as drinks and snacks in the hotel were very expensive, it was only for 5 days and because there were so many group activities, with childrens’ entertainments alongside the adults, no one else wanted to leave the complex. So I think for young families they can be a good option. Older children would probably be more bored.

But I have to say, I didnt think it was a cheap and cheerful offer at all, it seemed very expensive to me! The hotel belonged to a Spanish hotel chain that seemed to cater for mostly Spanish tourists and they were all very keen on all-inclusive with some using that hotel chain quite regularly. On the whole, it was a nice, friendly atmosphere and I met up with a group of madrilenos who were very welcoming. Often I think these all inclusive resorts are situated quite far from the centre so it makes the all inclusive option seem more attractive as you dont have to drag the kids about everywhere, but 5 days was enough (and that was with 2 days trips out) after that I would get cabin fever!


----------



## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

The nearest I've got to an all-inclusive experience was a Nile cruise. We went just after 9/11 so we had the temples and palaces more or less to ourselves (wonderful!) but the experience of set mealtimes and having to sit at the same table with the same people for every meal was not my idea of fun. So whenever we were moored up somewhere we would go off and find somewhere local to eat instead. The other "cruisers" found this totally incomprehensible - after all, we had paid for full board! But for me, eating local food in local cafes is all part of the experience. When I was a kid, our holidays usually consisted of camping in France, and eating strange foreign food was a big adventure. This attitude has stayed with me I think.


----------

