# Vino tinto



## iahoka (Sep 15, 2009)

I'd like to begin by saying that yo y mi querida (a couple of 50-somethings) are absolutely thrilled to have found your forum and are really enjoying reading your great comments and helpful hints as to thoroughly planning our eventual retirement to Mexico. Thanks to both those posting and those hosting. 
Also, I'm prefacing my first post to your forum by stating that this will sound completely self-serving, slightly alcoholic and even a bit decadent, and that I realize it before saying it, but please bear with me. 

Over the years we've managed to shed much of the "gotta have" impulses we entered adulthood with so moving doesn't present some of the problems inherent to the forum. However, I (as the major culprit of us two) have been completely unable to rein in my taste for good wine enjoyed at suppertime, and have enjoyed collecting many great vintages from around the world over the years, stashing them in my wine cellar for later enjoyment.

Three questions (and please assume in your answer that we would have secured the proper long-term visas indicating permanent residency): (1) are there import tariffs for bringing in a wine collection, say 1,000 bottles, from the US?; (2) what does a decent bottle of red wine retail for in most non-mainly-tourist communities? and (3) can wine be purchased over the internet and sent to a Mexican residence? How? Via FedEx or UPS, or is there a Mexican version of same?

Thanks very much.


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## RVGRINGO (May 16, 2007)

Welcome to the forum. Sadly, I don't have any answers for you and suspect that you might have to pick out your favorite bottle and leave the rest behind. Do I see one great party on the horizon, before you move? I have my doubts that an individual could easily import that particular collection.
We have wines from Mexico, Spain, Argentina, Chile, Italy, USA, Australia, etc. all available in everything from specialty stores to the larger supermarkets. Prices will begin at around 79 pesos and upward to "is anything that good?!" I have no idea if you could order wine over the internet and have it shipped to you in Mexico. If you can, I wonder if it would get as far as your house? Now, I'll go pour a glass of Padre Kino, which has improved greatly in the last few years, and toast to your success in finding an answer from someone who really knows.


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## iahoka (Sep 15, 2009)

RVGRINGO said:


> Welcome to the forum. Sadly, I don't have any answers for you and suspect that you might have to pick out your favorite bottle and leave the rest behind. Do I see one great party on the horizon, before you move? I have my doubts that an individual could easily import that particular collection.
> We have wines from Mexico, Spain, Argentina, Chile, Italy, USA, Australia, etc. all available in everything from specialty stores to the larger supermarkets. Prices will begin at around 79 pesos and upward to "is anything that good?!" I have no idea if you could order wine over the internet and have it shipped to you in Mexico. If you can, I wonder if it would get as far as your house? Now, I'll go pour a glass of Padre Kino, which has improved greatly in the last few years, and toast to your success in finding an answer from someone who really knows.


Well, that tears things a bit. I will indeed hope for more information on the subject, perhaps from someone who has dealt with customs on such issues. If anyone wants to get taste some collectors' vintages from France, Italy, Spain and so on, it would be worth their while for the help.

Thanks for your welcoming comments and quick reply.


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## HolyMole (Jan 3, 2009)

iahoka said:


> ..... over the internet and sent to a Mexican residence? How? Via FedEx or UPS, or is there a Mexican version of same?
> 
> Thanks very much.


My very small contribution: I think there is FedEx, there certainly is DHL, who are all over Mexico. As to the cost......well........think vintage wine prices.


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## iahoka (Sep 15, 2009)

HolyMole said:


> My very small contribution: I think there is FedEx, there certainly is DHL, who are all over Mexico. As to the cost......well........think vintage wine prices.


I was thinking along the following lines: purchasing all the Latin American everyday swill needed locally (Mexican, Argentinan, Chilean, etc.) then, for special occasions, buying a case here or there on the net and having it shipped to a residence as I do now.

It also just struck me how absurdly comical it must seem to folks like you.....here I am wondering how I can move wine down to a country where it probably costs 1/10th the price.....bringing coals to Newcastle, as it were.

As the moderator sagely opined, I think there's both a big going-away partyin my future. Probably an auction as well.

Thanks very much.


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## RVGRINGO (May 16, 2007)

I've done a little exploring and it seems that two litres per person may be the maximum.


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## Hound Dog (Jan 18, 2009)

*red wines*



iahoka said:


> I'd like to begin by saying that yo y mi querida (a couple of 50-somethings) are absolutely thrilled to have found your forum and are really enjoying reading your great comments and helpful hints as to thoroughly planning our eventual retirement to Mexico. Thanks to both those posting and those hosting.
> Also, I'm prefacing my first post to your forum by stating that this will sound completely self-serving, slightly alcoholic and even a bit decadent, and that I realize it before saying it, but please bear with me.
> 
> Over the years we've managed to shed much of the "gotta have" impulses we entered adulthood with so moving doesn't present some of the problems inherent to the forum. However, I (as the major culprit of us two) have been completely unable to rein in my taste for good wine enjoyed at suppertime, and have enjoyed collecting many great vintages from around the world over the years, stashing them in my wine cellar for later enjoyment.
> ...



I worked in the wine business for 30 years and we sold and shipped wines to Mexico . I can tell you that it is one of the worst country to export to. You are making it worst as you have a collection from various country- One way to bring a collection is to go to a Mexican Importer or to a US exporter and ask them if they can do it for a fee. That is the legal way and I doubt that they will want to do it as it is very time consuming.

An ex-distributor of wine with his wife brought me a couple of cases on the plane and had no problem as they got the green light.

Another friend from a winery brought me two cases but for 100 cases or so that will be tough. I ever had a collection but I had 10 cases of the most expensive wines in France that the owners of the winey would send me for Christmas. I sol everything but 2 cases and a friend of ours brought them to us, the rest was sold at auction and I paid for my move down here from California with.

You can find some fine French wines in Guadalajara but the prices are way up there.
Wine from Spain, Argentina and Chili have special tariffs so they are better values than the wines coming from the rest of the world. I used to get the fine wines at our cost when we imported them or free so we drank nothing but the best but when I see the prices for high end wines I just laugh and buy the reasonably priced wines from Chili. Spain and Argentina.
It is nice to have some wines here and open a fine bottle for special occasion but otherwise I drink lower price wines. By the way do you know that Eric de Rothchild, Philippine de rothschild, Christian Moueix , the Dillons, Alexandre de Lur Saluces and so on do not drink their finer wines except on special occasions or with special guests. 

Moving collections can be done but it is very expensive and difficult . Very wealthy Mexicans would buy cases of wines from Las Cruces, NM and various town in Texas and fly them in their private planes or just drive them over but you better know what you are doing and I would not recommend it as you have to know people and know how to cross without having the wine confiscated.
One of our Mexican distributor would have the wines shipped to Laredo and would take it from there.

My favorite is that to export wines to Mexico they require a certificate saying it is fit for humans, pretty funny from a country where most of the water is not potable.
There is no entity that issues such certificate so the lawyers and wineries make them up have them notorized and that does the trick, how about that for a joke. 
Talking about having to do paerwork for the sake of paperwork.
Brigitte


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## Hound Dog (Jan 18, 2009)

question one is yes except for wines coming from Latin countries
question 2 prices vary a lot I spend from 5 to dollars for everyday wines but the prices go from there to several hundred dollars at Europa in Guadalajara. Some of the higher end wines like classified Bordeaux are in the back storage and you have to ask them what they have available.
question 3 is NO (at least legally)


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## arturo_b (Sep 17, 2009)

You can bring your entire household into Mexico under the "menaje de casa" provision. That includes your personal wine cellar. The menaje de casa is a once-in-a-lifetime provision, however, so ever after you will be limited to the normal franquicia of four liters of alcoholic beverage per adult per trip.

I cannot speak for DHL, UPS, and other carriers. My experiences with them have shown them to be far too expensive for normal shipments. USPS to Sepomex would likewise be too cumbersome.

I know many of the winemakers in Ensenada personally and they have told me that the TLC (the free-trade agreement) has done nothing to facilitate the trade of wines across our borders. You can, however, buy Ensenada wines easily if you live in Mexico.

Frankly, I would rather buy wines from Burgundy. They still know what wine should taste like.

And don't I sound like a curmudgeon. But it's true. Wines today are very disappointing. Dry, insipid, nothing like the seventies or eighties. O tempora, o mores.


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## Hound Dog (Jan 18, 2009)

arturo_b said:


> You can bring your entire household into Mexico under the "menaje de casa" provision. That includes your personal wine cellar. The menaje de casa is a once-in-a-lifetime provision, however, so ever after you will be limited to the normal franquicia of four liters of alcoholic beverage per adult per trip.
> 
> I cannot speak for DHL, UPS, and other carriers. My experiences with them have shown them to be far too expensive for normal shipments. USPS to Sepomex would likewise be too cumbersome.
> 
> ...




That is an idea but can the shipment for the menaje de casa be done in two separate trucks or trips?
I would not have dreamed to send my wines in a non temperature controlled truck and of course that would be silly to send furniture or personal belong the same way.
Red Bordeaux are pretty tough but Burgundies red and white are very fragile and easily get damaged .Old wines are fragile. Alsace wines travel well and so on and so forth, it all pends on your collection and the value of it. No matter what, you will not be able to replace it when you live here.


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## arturo_b (Sep 17, 2009)

Hound Dog said:


> That is an idea but can the shipment for the menaje de casa be done in two separate trucks or trips?


Two trucks at one time, definitely. Two separate trips -- our mover said yes, even had us make extra copies of the manifest for that purpose -- but I never had to test the theory. Can't imagine how it would work. Kept a copy in my glove compartment just in case but I always got the green light.


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## iahoka (Sep 15, 2009)

Thanks to all for their contributions. The consistent message I'm getting from everyone is "prior planning prevents poor performance" and I'll take it to heart. I should think the only way to do it correctly would be for me to personally pack it and then send it via cooled truck alongside another with household items.....both trucks specifically contracted through a single moving company.....under the menaje de casa exemption. Thanks again to all for their insights. Hasta proxima vez.


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## RVGRINGO (May 16, 2007)

And then, you or your forwarder will have to arrange another cooled truck for the Mexican part of the trip. All of that shipping of wine and household goods is going to be very, very expensive. Most folks find that they can furnish a home in Mexico for about the same price as shipping their old stuff down from the north.


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## El Toro Furioso (May 13, 2007)

Hound Dog said:


> That is an idea but can the shipment for the menaje de casa be done in two separate trucks or trips?
> I would not have dreamed to send my wines in a non temperature controlled truck and of course that would be silly to send furniture or personal belong the same way.
> Red Bordeaux are pretty tough but Burgundies red and white are very fragile and easily get damaged .Old wines are fragile. Alsace wines travel well and so on and so forth, it all pends on your collection and the value of it. No matter what, you will not be able to replace it when you live here.


It would have to be done all at once if you use the one-time FM3/2 exemption within 6 months of getting your visa. But that could be two trucks or cargo containers. If you are a couple, you could do one shipment each. The down side in the future is that you would each be renewing your visa at different times of the year, which is much less convenient than renewing together each year. No one here lakeside has really addressed the availability of good to fine wines outside of this area. As you leave lakeside and the Guadalajara metro area, your selection will diminish. If you are not in an area with tourists and/or expats, like in many beach areas, your selection will be curtailed. Plus many wines suffer badly from the heat and from standing on wine shop shelves. Not to worry too much, though. You will find potable wines throughout most of Mexico However, here lakeside, there is a good selection of California cabs, but it seems that the delivery trucks are held up in hot weather for too long. We have stopped wasting our pesos on oxidized "good" California cabs. It is a bitter disappointment to open a $600 peso bottle for guests, only to add to the cooking wine supply. But the better Argentine wines come from vines up to 80 plus years old and from vineyards owned for generations mainly by Italians (many words in Argentine Spanish are said with Italian pronunciations to this day). And one of the older wineries in northern Mexico is L.A. Cetto (of Italian extraction also). They make very good everyday wines in the $7 USD range, except for their Cabernet, which is awful. Bottom line, have a great party, then try to get a few years of special occasions of your favorite and best-traveling wines down here. Then just don't wait until it is too late to open those incredible bottles that you really can't replace. ¡Qué le vaya bien!


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## Sanfro (Apr 27, 2012)

they make a good wine in Mexico


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## Detailman (Aug 27, 2011)

Sanfro said:


> they make a good wine in Mexico


Why are you replying to these old posts with almost nonsensical comments?


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## FHBOY (Jun 15, 2010)

We've either got a troll or someone with too much time on their hands. In either case, more relevant topics are being lost, darn it!


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