# How a EU citizen can bring to Germany his non EU spouse?



## lucielavie

Hi!

I am French and my husband his Russian, we are planing to move to Germany in January, but we don't really understand how to get him a visa and work permit. 

Does anyone knows where I can get an official and precise answer about the procedure? 

I would be happy to hear from people who have already come through this. 

In the forum I read that my husband can directly apply for a residency permit while we are only looking for work, but I didn't find any official confirmation. 
Do I need to find a job in order to get my husband a residency permit? 
Also my husband is an IT worker and can work for his current company while living in Germany, can it help him getting a residency permit ?

Thank you!


----------



## ALKB

lucielavie said:


> Hi!
> 
> I am French and my husband his Russian, we are planing to move to Germany in January, but we don't really understand how to get him a visa and work permit.
> 
> Does anyone knows where I can get an official and precise answer about the procedure?
> 
> I would be happy to hear from people who have already come through this.
> 
> In the forum I read that my husband can directly apply for a residency permit while we are only looking for work, but I didn't find any official confirmation.
> Do I need to find a job in order to get my husband a residency permit?
> Also my husband is an IT worker and can work for his current company while living in Germany, can it help him getting a residency permit ?
> 
> Thank you!


Where does your husband live at the moment? In France or in Russia?


----------



## Nononymous

lucielavie said:


> Does anyone knows where I can get an official and precise answer about the procedure?


The Germany embassy or consulate would be an ideal place to start.


----------



## Your Europe

Hello lucielavie, 

as far as visas are concerned, since Germany and France are both Schnegen countries, no additional visa is needed to travel from one to the other. Since you're married to each other and you are an EU citizen, your husband is entitled to stay with you anywhere in the EU.

As long as you haven't found a job in Germany, you'll be considered a job seeker there. During the first six months, you don't even need to register your presence; an ID card or a passport is sufficient. After six months, you'll have to register and the German authorities can assess your right to stay. Your husband, since he is not an EU national, is a different case; He'll be required to apply for a residence permit within three months after his arrival. 

The decision on whether your husband's work for his old company counts as work in Germany will most likely be based on where he pays his taxes. In any case, after six months of living in Germany at the latest, he'll have to pay tax on his worldwide income and property in Germany.

Good luck!


----------



## ALKB

Your Europe said:


> Hello lucielavie,
> 
> as far as visas are concerned, since Germany and France are both Schnegen countries, no additional visa is needed to travel from one to the other. Since you're married to each other and you are an EU citizen, your husband is entitled to stay with you anywhere in the EU.
> 
> As long as you haven't found a job in Germany, you'll be considered a job seeker there. During the first six months, you don't even need to register your presence; an ID card or a passport is sufficient. After six months, you'll have to register and the German authorities can assess your right to stay. Your husband, since he is not an EU national, is a different case; He'll be required to apply for a residence permit within three months after his arrival.
> 
> The decision on whether your husband's work for his old company counts as work in Germany will most likely be based on where he pays his taxes. In any case, after six months of living in Germany at the latest, he'll have to pay tax on his worldwide income and property in Germany.
> 
> Good luck!


Since when can an EU national stay longer than 90 days without registering?

What is the difference between registering and reporting her presence?


----------



## lucielavie

ALKB said:


> Where does your husband live at the moment? In France or in Russia?


He lives in Russia. He didn't apply for a french residency permit yet.


----------



## ALKB

lucielavie said:


> He lives in Russia. He didn't apply for a french residency permit yet.


Where do you live at the moment?

He needs to apply for a short term Schengen visa at the German Embassy. This should be free of charge and processed within 15 days, as he is the spouse of an EEA citizen.

You either need to travel with him to Germany or you need to travel ahead and he joins you there.

Once you are wherever you want to settle down you need to register your residence at the local municipality. This can be the town hall (Rathaus) or another place like a Bürgerbüro or the Meldeamt. It depends on the Bundesland and the size of the town where you want to live. Registering for the first time in Germany will also automatically get you a tax number which will come in the post and is handy to have when starting a job.

Then make an appointment at the local Ausländerbehörde (aliens' department) to apply for his residence card (Aufenthaltskarte).

For example:

https://service.berlin.de/dienstleistung/324282/en/

Try to get this done within 90 days of YOUR arrival. Within these 90 days you don't need to show finances, health insurance or a job. After 90 days you have to show all of that.

A decision is usually made on the spot and the residence card arrives 3-4 weeks later. The residence card is valid for 5 years and allows your husband unrestricted access to the job market.

EDIT: Your husband working remotely for his employer in Russia will not help him to get a residence permit. If you decide that he will keep that job be careful about tax, contributions to the social systems and health insurance! Usually, the German employer pays half of the social security and health insurance costs. As your husband's Russian employer would not be obligated to do so, your husband might have to pay all of this himself and there might be very little left over of his salary in the end.


----------



## lucielavie

ALKB said:


> Where do you live at the moment?
> 
> He needs to apply for a short term Schengen visa at the German Embassy. This should be free of charge and processed within 15 days, as he is the spouse of an EEA citizen.


We live in Moscow now, but my visa there is about to end.
My husband already has a touristic schengen visa, that he got from the french consulate. Can this work as a short-term visa or does he need a specific one?


----------



## ALKB

lucielavie said:


> We live in Moscow now, but my visa there is about to end.
> My husband already has a touristic schengen visa, that he got from the french consulate. Can this work as a short-term visa or does he need a specific one?


No, the French one is fine - is it still valid in January?


----------



## lucielavie

ALKB said:


> No, the French one is fine - is it still valid in January?


Yes it is. 
Thank you so much for your help! Have you been through this procedure yourself?


----------



## ALKB

lucielavie said:


> Yes it is.
> Thank you so much for your help! Have you been through this procedure yourself?



You are welcome 

No, but we lived in England before my husband got a German passport and got well-acquainted with the EU directive of freedom of movement.

The important bit is to be organised:

-move to Germany (get some travel health insurance for at least 90 days just to be on the safe side)
-get a place to stay
-register with the local authorities
-apply for residence card

You as the EEA citizen has to exercise treaty rights, so it would be good if you could get a job of some sort. Part time is okay, 15 hours per week minimum.

After five years in Germany(when his residence card expires), your husband can apply for an indefinite residence permit.

Are you planning to stay in Germany long term? Or do you want to use the Surinder Singh route into France after a while?

Where in Germany are you headed?


----------



## lucielavie

Actually the German embassy in Moscow tells me that if I don't work and live in Germany already, my husband won't be able to get a residency permit. How comes some people tell me the contrary? Where does this information come from?


----------



## ALKB

lucielavie said:


> Actually the German embassy in Moscow tells me that if I don't work and live in Germany already, my husband won't be able to get a residency permit. How comes some people tell me the contrary? Where does this information come from?


Under EU regulations (which is often not exactly liked by/well known to Embassy staff) he can come with you to travel/jobseek/settle.

During the first 90 days of your stay you don't have to show that you already have a job, you can be a jobseeker.

Have a look at the link of the Berlin aliens' department that I posted earlier.

Are you going to a bigger town in Germany? The local aliens' department will be much more experienced with the EU directive and won't usually give you trouble. If they do, ask for a supervisor to look at your case (would be surprised if that will be necessary).

Also, he will not be applying for a residence permit, he will be applying for a residence card for family members of EEA nationals. Completely different thing.


----------



## lucielavie

Thank you ! 
It looks not so complicated after all 
We would like to move to Berlin.


----------



## ALKB

lucielavie said:


> Thank you !
> It looks not so complicated after all
> We would like to move to Berlin.


Berlin - my home  Excellent choice!

Just make sure you are well-organised and know your rights - I am sure you will be absolutely fine.


----------



## Porckchop

Hi ALKB, I've been reading this particular thread with great interest. I've been doing quite a bit of research on various forums and websites on this very topic, I'm a non-EU spouse of an EU national (Dutch) wishing to live with her and our two sons in the Netherlands but navigating there using the EU freedom of movement rulings. I've been looking at a number of EU member states including Spain and the UK but thought I'd investigate Germany as well as it was suggested by a member of another forum as being a possible choice. 
That puts me in a different category to the majority of users of this section of the forum in that I am really only looking at Germany as a "stepping stone" to access the Netherlands. It would have been nice to be able to go directly to NL and apply for Family Reunification but the dutch authorities have made it very restrictive and I don't think we could go through it. Belgium might have been an option being so close to NL, sharing similar language etc but there have been a lot of murmurings of late of closing of the "Belgié Route" so that's probably out as well.
We had been looking at applying as a "self sufficient" resident or economically non-active as we would sell our house here in in Australia (where we currently reside) and use the interest gained as income plus the principal as evidence of financial self-sufficiency as the prospect of finding work in Germany is probaly remote especially for the 6 month duration. Neither of us has really any German language skills although my wife speaks fluent Dutch and English nor do our sons so that would obviously make life difficult for the duration. Taxation and income is yet another tricky area to navigate, if the proceeds from the sale of our house are taxed at a 'non-resident' rate back in Australia the government only takes 10% but I suspect that once residency in Germany is legally established the German government would be taking quite a bit more. You have obviously had some experience of the pitfalls and hurdles of making the move, any enlightenment would be gratefully received!


----------



## ALKB

Porckchop said:


> Hi ALKB, I've been reading this particular thread with great interest. I've been doing quite a bit of research on various forums and websites on this very topic, I'm a non-EU spouse of an EU national (Dutch) wishing to live with her and our two sons in the Netherlands but navigating there using the EU freedom of movement rulings. I've been looking at a number of EU member states including Spain and the UK but thought I'd investigate Germany as well as it was suggested by a member of another forum as being a possible choice.
> That puts me in a different category to the majority of users of this section of the forum in that I am really only looking at Germany as a "stepping stone" to access the Netherlands. It would have been nice to be able to go directly to NL and apply for Family Reunification but the dutch authorities have made it very restrictive and I don't think we could go through it. Belgium might have been an option being so close to NL, sharing similar language etc but there have been a lot of murmurings of late of closing of the "Belgié Route" so that's probably out as well.
> We had been looking at applying as a "self sufficient" resident or economically non-active as we would sell our house here in in Australia (where we currently reside) and use the interest gained as income plus the principal as evidence of financial self-sufficiency as the prospect of finding work in Germany is probaly remote especially for the 6 month duration. Neither of us has really any German language skills although my wife speaks fluent Dutch and English nor do our sons so that would obviously make life difficult for the duration. Taxation and income is yet another tricky area to navigate, if the proceeds from the sale of our house are taxed at a 'non-resident' rate back in Australia the government only takes 10% but I suspect that once residency in Germany is legally established the German government would be taking quite a bit more. You have obviously had some experience of the pitfalls and hurdles of making the move, any enlightenment would be gratefully received!


As far as I know you need to be economically active - employed or self-employed - to use the Surinder Singh route but I admit that I have no knowledge whatsoever about how The Netherlands deal with these cases/have implemented the judgement - for instance, how would Germany be different from Belgium? Both are EU countries and exercising treaty rights in either one should carry the same weight as per EU regulations?

2014 seems to have brought a marked change in attitude towards EU nationals bringing non-EEA spouses to Germany. I heard about several cases where self-sufficient applicants were rejected but don't know what became of them.

I also don't know how the German Finanzamt would view your income from selling your house in Australia. Usually there wouldn't be any double taxation and there might be tax treaties. Tax in Germany is highly complicated and I am very glad that I don't have to deal with all those forms anymore.


----------



## Porckchop

ALKB said:


> As far as I know you need to be economically active - employed or self-employed - to use the Surinder Singh route but I admit that I have no knowledge whatsoever about how The Netherlands deal with these cases/have implemented the judgement - for instance, how would Germany be different from Belgium? Both are EU countries and exercising treaty rights in either one should carry the same weight as per EU regulations?


Sorry for the delay in replying! The interpretation of the EU directives on a country by country basis is certainly a cause for frustration, I appreciate that for many people using this forum the 'back door' approach comes across as perhaps somewhat devious but the immigration policy of a number of developed EU member states has been the driver. I've been observing the shift in government attitude for a very long time now and in NL (the only EU country I can speak with any authority on) policies designed to hinder the flow of Turkish and Moroccan nationals have also made it exceedingly difficult to reside in the country with your NL-born spouse and family. That last comment possibly sounds racist but is not intended that way, the fact remains that the freedom to reside in the country of your birth with your immediate family has become a 'bridge too far" for many people.
The Netherlands and Belgium have been attempting only recently to close off the loopholes that have enabled Dutch-born nationals to use the lax border controls and proximity to NL to take advantage of the EU freedom movement rulings. My initial attitude to making the move to Europe (after family reunification had become too onerous) was to consider Belgium as a distinct possibility but it seems that it is not such any easy path to tread. Spain and Germany have been suggested as alternatives in that they apparently have been more responsive/quicker to follow through the EU directives in terms of granting residency etc. Being "economically inactive" doesn't necessarily mean having insufficient funds to support oneself naturally enough. Having an income stream plus considerable cash reserves and valid health cover is apparently enough to permit residency but the level varies from country to country. The UK is probaly the best option in terms of dealing with bureaucracy, getting jobs etc as we both have fluent English. I guess if we could set up camp in England for 6 months or so and register for work then it would present better to the Dutch authorities than the economically inactive path. I must admit that the whole process is somewhat scary


----------



## rpurayil

lucielavie said:


> Hi!
> 
> I am French and my husband his Russian, we are planing to move to Germany in January, but we don't really understand how to get him a visa and work permit.
> 
> Does anyone knows where I can get an official and precise answer about the procedure?
> 
> I would be happy to hear from people who have already come through this.
> 
> In the forum I read that my husband can directly apply for a residency permit while we are only looking for work, but I didn't find any official confirmation.
> Do I need to find a job in order to get my husband a residency permit?
> Also my husband is an IT worker and can work for his current company while living in Germany, can it help him getting a residency permit ?
> 
> Thank you!


HI lucielavie,

I am closely following your case. I am in similar boat as you. I am an Indian and my wife holds french passport. We are currently living in India and wanted to move to Germany. I wanted to know if you were able to make to Germany and if you had any problem.


----------

