# Thinking about moving back to Greece



## zefif (Aug 14, 2010)

Hi. I just joined this forum to help me think things through. I have had a quick look around on some other threads but thought I'd take the time to ask my own questions as well.

I was born in Athens, moved to Australia when I was 1yr old, then moved back at 10yrs for 14 years. I speak greek well, I'm a greek and australian citizen and I have a family home in Athens where my mother lives and land on Paros. I have cousins who live on Paros and some on Naxos. I hate Athens with a passion and cannot see myself living there for all the money in the world. If I moved back it would be to Paros or Naxos.

The main attraction to moving back to Greece? Being close to family. I've lived far from any family for most of my life and I'm not getting any younger. Neither are they. 

I love the sea most of all. I would tolerate the heat. In fact, unlike most people I've heard who talk about living on a greek island or a small village, I would love the quiet winters. I live in the country now and I love the space and the quiet. 

Jobs and income would be the biggest issue. I am a qualified graphic designer and can/do work from home when I can get the work. I am an artist and occasionally do commissons or sell paintings. I am a qualified disability support and aged care worker as well (part of my tree change in moving to Tasmania). I also breed and show poodles (not much call for THAT on a greek island!) but as a result I've groomed dogs for years. No idea how much money that would bring in on an island either!

My main problem is seeing past my dislike of so many things about greeks, Greece, bureaucrasy and corruption and all that... As much as I love my family.

Any thoughts or ideas on what I could do if I was to move to an island? And what are rents like on the islands for a country home? I am considering going over for a year or two, WITH my dogs, to try living there before I commit to anything.

zefi


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## wka (Sep 18, 2009)

I'm right there with you on the Cycladic winters. My husband and I live on a Cycladic island and Dec - March is my favorite time there by far. 

If I were you, I'd get a job lined up where I could work from home (in say Paros) using the internet, and not try to find a job locally, or just try to find something locally as a SUPPLEMENT. Unemployment on the islands is out of control and available jobs tend to go to locals / family of people hiring. Rent for a small house would probably run around €350/month from September through May; you'd probably have to renegotiate for the summer. We paid €240/month for our house from Sept through June (not Paros though) but it was smaller than what most people would want.

Family is one of the most (if the not the most) important things in life. Especially if you're willing to do it on a 1-2 year trial basis, I would go for it. But then again, I'm extremely careful with money. If you don't have savings and a job set up already, I would be EXTREMELY cautious. The Greek financial crisis is a big deal here. They came out with statistics a week ago that unemployment in the Ionian islands is 52%. I haven't seen any logical explanation of that so I don't know what to make of it, but to put it simply, there are no jobs really.

(My personal experience: despite the financial difficulties, my quality of life has improved dramatically since moving from the US to a Cycladic island. I consider quality of life to be the best measure for ME.)


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## hecate (Jul 12, 2010)

Ok, non-flippant answer called for. 

I'm here by choice, and free to leave if I so choose. I share your feelings about Athens - a second rate overgrown town that fails on all counts for anyone who's ever lived in a _real_ city. 

What _has_ drawn me to and keeps me in Greece is the sheer bloody vitality of the place, that harshness, life-in-your-face (-)ness. When I was first here, an Irishwoman told "it's all sharp edges, nothing soft or smooth", and that her secret of happiness was to leave periodically. Absolutely true, for me at least.

My experience of the islands in winter is completely positive, but like you, I delight in periods of relative isolation. Naxos is probably better (since Paros has gone the way of Ios, etc.) It's a green island, so it doesn't shut down when the tourists leave. Both have some year-round foreigners, but they're the non-clustering sort. Also both access and medical services more reliable on the bigger island.

Self-employed, talented people do *much *better than any who come here looking for "a job" or to apply their professional skills. You're already linked into the system via your background, family, language. Worry not!

You won't be stung on rentals (lucky insider, you). Various friends are currently renting at prices from 250 - 600/month/year [euro]. Places range from "picturesque" (weird plumbing, hideous wall tiles) to mini-palatial. 

I think you'll also find that the things you - we all - hate about Greece are less troubling when you live far from the awfulness of Athens. Everything seems to fall into that delicious state of, "never mind, _te na kanoume_, look at that beautiful sunset..."

In case you haven't realized, you're in a great position: a trial run may prove unnecessary. If you need further info, feel free to personal-message me.
Cheers, Hecate







zefif said:


> Hi. I just joined this forum to help me think things through. I have had a quick look around on some other threads but thought I'd take the time to ask my own questions as well.
> 
> I was born in Athens, moved to Australia when I was 1yr old, then moved back at 10yrs for 14 years. I speak greek well, I'm a greek and australian citizen and I have a family home in Athens where my mother lives and land on Paros. I have cousins who live on Paros and some on Naxos. I hate Athens with a passion and cannot see myself living there for all the money in the world. If I moved back it would be to Paros or Naxos.
> 
> ...


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## zefif (Aug 14, 2010)

Thanks guys. Your replies are much appreciated. You acknowledge and understand my concerns without brushing them aside with the usual platitudes I get from people who love Greece, and you understand my reasons for disliking it and for worrying about making the move.

I've been pretty torn between Greece and Australia all my life, a result of living in both countries as I grew up. Its a horrible feeling. People who move to Greece as a choice don't have the same issues as people like me and my family who are always missing one country when living in the other.

When I left Greece at the end of 1985 I made the move to Australia 'forever' and to set down roots. I never wanted to be torn between two countries again. Yet here I am again. 

Family. Thats the reason. For me its not so much about the patrida and all that stuff, though I do confess that I thoroughly enjoyed dancing balo at the festivals on Paros and Antiparos this summer! 

There is something very greek in me despite myself. I dont consider myself to be a 'real' greek, english is my first language and I think in english and I love living in a country where english is the language I hear all around me. That will bother me in Greece, greek TV sucks. LOL

But as you point out, I do have family there and people who have lived there a long time and with their help and their connections I can most likely find work and a place to live cheaply. You may be right. I may not need to do the trial run. Maybe I can pack up myself and my dogs, rent out my house and just go. Its an option.

However, I have no money, no savings... thats the trouble. Of course if I was to pack up to move there next month I'd be selling almost everything I own here rather than moving it overseas with me. I'd only keep and move things I would need over there and which would help me make money (for instance, all my dog grooming stuff). In order to move I'd need not only enough money to move some of my stuff over, but also enough to pay for myself and 2 standard poodles and one toy poodle. I couldnt go without my dogs. Thats a given. I cannot be happy or 'at home' without them.

If I was to make a decision like that, suddenly, I know I could most likely go and stay at my uncle's house on Paros until I could find a rental of my own. Dogs might be tolerated if there is no one else living there. That place is only inhabited in summer and when my uncle is there to oversea work being done. So for a few months I am sure I could have free accommodation on Paros. 

Naxos is different. I would have to find a rental straight up, but with a larger population, I might be able to get grooming work easier.

My ideal place to live would be outside of town, agrotico, with some space for the dogs and privacy. Surely there would be places like that available for rent at a reasonable rate. 

However, without savings, I would definitely need to find a job of some sort. Enough to live on day to day and cover my bills. Internet isn't a problem. From what I've seen, the options available over there surpass anything I can get where I live now and cost a fraction of what I'm paying.

I guess I just need to hear from people who are doing it, who are living there after living in 'civilized' countries for most of their lives, and the problems they've faced moving to a place like Greece, which is almost primitive in so many ways.

My brother would never live anywhere else. He and my cousins admit that Australia offers so much more in terms of security, but they love living in Greece, even in Athens. The only thing I can say is that I feel more alive over there and being tanned suits me.


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## hecate (Jul 12, 2010)

G'day Zefi

*I know what it's like to grapple with all this, (including making major life choices around pets, but....) *

Its a horrible feeling. People who move to Greece as a choice don't have the same issues as people like me and my family who are always missing one country when living in the other.

*Bah. Not so. You haven't a lock on the nostalgia thing *

I dont consider myself to be a 'real' greek, english is my first language and I think in english and I love living in a country where english is the language I hear all around me. That will bother me in Greece, greek TV sucks. LOL

*You're right, our tv has been Murdoched. But tell me, what's a "real Greek" - anything like a "real American"?*

However, I have no money, no savings... thats the trouble. Of course if I was to pack up to move there next month I'd be selling almost everything I own here rather than moving it overseas with me. I'd only keep and move things I would need over there and which would help me make money (for instance, all my dog grooming stuff). In order to move I'd need not only enough money to move some of my stuff over, but also enough to pay for myself and 2 standard poodles and one toy poodle. I couldnt go without my dogs. Thats a given. I cannot be happy or 'at home' without them.

*Poodles? On Paros???? You have been away a long time. Update: 99% of dogs in Greece exist chained in the yard, 'running free' on a tiny balcony, or running free to starve. But anything's possible. Why not set up something online in Greek to market test the grooming idea.*

My ideal place to live would be outside of town, agrotico, with some space for the dogs and privacy. 

*Yes, yes, yes, that's the dream - plus a lovely sandy cove nearby...*

Surely there would be places like that available for rent at a reasonable rate. 

*Maybe, sometimes, depends. But you do have an inside track*

However, without savings, I would definitely need to find a job of some sort. Enough to live on day to day and cover my bills. Internet isn't a problem. From what I've seen, the options available over there surpass anything I can get where I live now and cost a fraction of what I'm paying.

*Which 'options' surpass Oz's? Anyway the sort of info you're looking for is available online, starting with xe.gr *

I guess I just need to hear from people who are doing it, who are living there after living in 'civilized' countries for most of their lives, and the problems they've faced moving to a place like Greece, which is almost primitive in so many ways.

*Oh come on, Greece isn't 'almost primitive', no matter how much we all snark about it. It just operates in it's own private universe. But yes, talking with people who're living here it can help a bit. Any Ozzies on this board? 

Problem is that you're free to choose - makes it vastly more difficult. Easy way, do it by default - marry someone and get dragged off to his/her abode, get some company to post you here, or - desperation play - get your family to force your return . Hey, you're a trained eldercare aide... *

*Cheers, Hec*


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## wka (Sep 18, 2009)

> I've been pretty torn between Greece and Australia all my life, a result of living in both countries as I grew up.


I see what you're saying. I miss Greece terribly when I'm back in the US, but I don't miss the US at all when I'm in Greece. I think you are right to consider this as a serious issue. When I was living in the US, I was making 3x as much money as I make here, but I was spending ALL of it on coming to Greece. Often I would make 3 trips per year from the US, just the plane tix alone were more than several months' salary of an average Greek. Once I got to Greece, the biggest money suck in my life disappeared. So it was possible to live on that 1/3 income. But if I were torn between the US and here, wanting to take trips back to the US frequently (I think "frequently" is 1x/year), I don't know if I could make it work financially. Plane tickets for one person cost more than the average monthly salary here, and most people need all their money to survive. 



> Family. Thats the reason.


For me it's the opposite - until a few months ago, (I got married in April) I had no family here, so for me it was about Greece itself. That makes dealing with the "issues" that Greece throws at you a lot easier. If I were here JUST for my husband, I might try to work it out so we lived someplace else and came here for vacations. Living here is a huge pain in the ass so you have to look at what you get out of it. 



> I dont consider myself to be a 'real' greek, english is my first language and I think in english and I love living in a country where english is the language I hear all around me. That will bother me in Greece, greek TV sucks. LOL


But Greek theater is fantastic, Greek cinema is pretty good, there are more archaeological/historical sites and museums per capita than anywhere in the world (actually I made up that statistic but it could be true), we get media from all over the world, even on the smallest islands we get internet, and there are always a LOT of expats in the Cyclades, most of whom use English to communicate amongst themselves and even with the locals. English is my first language too, I didn't even hear Greek spoken for the first time until I was 17, but now I think in both and I only miss English when I'm tired or pissed off. That said - I can't say that I "love" living in a country where English is the first language. I'm rather indifferent to that. So it may well drive you nuts.



> I may not need to do the trial run. Maybe I can pack up myself and my dogs, rent out my house and just go.


There's no reason why a trial run has to STAY a trial run. I think it's a good idea to prepare yourself for either possibility. Say, I'm going to go out there "for a while" and see what happens - I might come back after 2 years, but if I decide to stay, I will have done the move in such a way that I can just ...stay.



> However, I have no money, no savings... thats the trouble.


Being TOTALLY honest with you, I think this is the problem. It doesn't take a dedicated self-sacrificing philhellene to enjoy living on a Cycladic island. You'll have your dogs, your family, and it's Naxos/Paros, so ... my guess is that you're going to love it, at least until you try to do something maddening like start a business or build a house. Greece is NOT kind to people who have no savings. Most Greeks go through periods of no or extremely low income (unemployment, underemployment, etc) and you have to be able to survive for that time.

To me, the idea of living in Greece without a job or savings is not doable, even relying on family. Chances are good that your family has been hard hit by the economic crisis here. Are they retired? Their retirement has been seriously reduced this year. Bills and expenses were all based around their old retirement checks - now they are getting a lot less money, so they are under pressure. Are they working in the public sector? They also took a huge salary hit. Are they working in private sector? They are vulnerable to job loss if their employer closes up shop - which is happening to the tune of the tens of thousands of businesses. Are they self-employed? They are worrying about keeping the business open. Are they independently wealthy? Then you might be okay. Pretty much nobody in Greece is in a position to take on additional financial responsibilities right now, and as much as they would be thrilled to take you out to dinner six times a week when you come to stay for 3 weeks... you see the difference. 

Now, if you have a relative who owns a house on the island and uses it only as a summer house, and does NOT plan to rent it out in winter, then you might be able to live there in winter, paying only utilities. But taxes on 2nd homes went up (? I think already, or they will) so you might want to pay 3/4 the annual tax on the house. 

I live on a small Cycladic island year round (I don't live there in July or August because it's too expensive. So we leave for the summer). Our rent from Sept - June is low, there are always houses to rent in the winter, because the owners have them as summer houses, or rent them out to tourists, and they are empty all winter. These are places that usually get no income at all during the off season, so they can be lower rent as "anything is better than nothing" and there are a lot of them. 

Another money issue: on the islands, you need to have money set aside at ALL times for the "what ifs" that can't be handled on the island itself. My island is more remote, but even with Paros/Naxos, there are some things that can only be done in Syros or Athens, and you have to be able to afford ferry tickets and a hotel room overnight. I would say that anyone on the islands that didn't have at least €500 set aside just for "getting off the island to get something done" would be foolish. €500 sounds like peanuts to someone from the US or AUS, but keep in mind that's more than half the monthly salary of many full time salaried employees in Greece.



> Naxos is different. I would have to find a rental straight up, but with a larger population, I might be able to get grooming work easier.


I know an expat on our island who does dog training (she's an animal behaviorist) and would probably do grooming if asked. To my knowledge, her ability to support herself in this way is ... well, let's just say she mostly does it for fun. She also teaches English privately. But the way she survives (and has 2 lovely kids) is by being married to a local who has a restaurant. I don't think you could make a living doing dog grooming, or dog + cat grooming, outside of a city, and I don't think Paroikia or Chora Naxou really count - Ermoupolis probably would though. Dogs as pampered pets are more of a city thing - on the islands, people who have dogs as pets haven't had groomers around and aren't used to shelling out for the service. However I do think you're on the right track with thinking a larger population could offer more in the way of employment.



> However, without savings, I would definitely need to find a job of some sort. Enough to live on day to day and cover my bills.


Start saving now. Live as if you were living in Greece during our financial crisis, in terms of how much money you spend. (My husband and I get by on a few hundred euros/month.) 



> My brother would never live anywhere else. He and my cousins admit that Australia offers so much more in terms of security, but they love living in Greece, even in Athens.


I would live elsewhere, and have, but I would never be as happy anywhere else, and I've faced a lot of "issues" moving to and living in Greece. It takes a sense of humor (especially about the bureaucracy) and patience, and money, but in my opinion, the quality of life is much higher than anywhere I've lived before (in the US or Europe). I have lived in Athens for about 3 years (and again this summer, just moved out of our Athens apartment three days ago, like I said, we can't afford July/Aug in the Cyclades!) and I don't share the generally negative view of the city that many on this board do. I think living in Athens can be (is!) wonderful, provided you live in a really good part of the city and immerse yourself in the things that make the city fantastic (its cultural life). I've lived in NYC, Rome, and other cities, and I do love Athens. Good thing too, because as any island dweller knows, you are never really free of Athens, because some things can only be bought / done there. 

I think your dilemma will come down to money, and how much can you save before you go. There is very little income security (which is saying more than "very little job security" - I know people who have jobs and go to work, but haven't been paid in 6 months), and the "safety net" is not that great here. If you arrive and can't find a job, you don't get unemployment or something (or even health insurance). (Even if you have a job and lose it, and do get unemployment, it's not NEARLY enough to live on.) When I made my permanent move about 15 months ago, I had a good job that provided me with a place to live for free. 15 months later, my job doesn't exist anymore, and we are going to be looking for a place we can afford on my husband's salary alone - and his salary is far smaller than it was this time last year, thanks to the IMF. A lot can change in a year. Savings is good for that.... Good luck


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## wka (Sep 18, 2009)

I just noticed you have a family home in Athens. You have a much better chance of finding work in Athens. If that's something you're willing to consider....???


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## zabestof (Jul 23, 2010)

If you're a graphic designer and you're good at it you can find work from anywhere in the world. Have you tried doing freelancing jobs on the internet? I'm a web designer but more on the coding part (lack of talent for designing  ) and I have a lot of friends that do just designing and they have a great income just by doing freelancing jobs.


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## zefif (Aug 14, 2010)

Hec: 
I never considered myself a 'real' greek in that I never longed for the old country though I was born there. I lived in Greece for 14 years growing up and disliked it (except for Paros) the entire 14 years. I picked Australia as my home but could easily have moved to any country where things are more organised, or should I say, more like the way they are in the USA or Australia. I picked Australia cause of my childhood spent here and the connections I felt due to that. Plus I love the countryside which is why I chose to live in a remote area.

As for dogs... One of the main reasons I think I had this deep down dislike (for use of a nicer word) of greeks, was their mistreatment and downright cruelty to animals. And yet, this last trip I noticed many people feeding stray cats instead of kicking them and so many people with dogs! Pet dogs. Many pet shops too so obviously people are now owing pets. To me its an incredible turnaround for a nation which was so awful to animals. Almost unbelievable. 

And I live in a country area. Most people who live out here only get their dogs groomed once a year when the mats are so bad they have to strip the dog down. Or they own farm dogs which never get washed. So I know how hard it is to get that kind of work. Its more a sideline than a real job.

On the internet... you guys have incredible speeds and wifi everywhere, mobile phone plans cost a fraction of what they do here. Where I live I only have one option for internet, 256k speed and I pay $190 a month on my plans alone for internet, home phone and mobile. Calls and downloads above the included amounts are extra. I dont know what someone would pay for a mobile, home phone and internet over there but I do know you have many providers to chose from and competition means better options. In Australia, unless you live in a city, you dont have many options. Its a huge country and they aren't spending the money on infrastructure for things like that though they make big promises.

Primitive was the wrong word to use there. I really meant to say something along the lines of uncivilized, though it has acquired a more european sheen on the surface lately. LOL

Someone said that moving to Greece is often an emotional decision: for those married to or marrying a greek its moving for love. For those, like me, moving back is either a longing for the old country or for family reasons.

I do understand that nowhere is perfect and every country has its own good and bad points. Living where I live now isn't without its problems. Living in the country may be cheaper in terms of affordability of houses, but then you have to travel 75klms each way to work, petrol bills, getting anything done costs more cause you have to pay travel costs to tradesmen etc. So, yeah, chosing where you want to live is finding what you can and what you cant live with. 

zefi


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## wka (Sep 18, 2009)

My in laws have a gorgeous Chow Chow whom they are obsessed with and head over heels in love with. I asked them tonight if they take her to a groomer - they said they don't, and they wouldn't. I think that if these dog owners, who have their dog pretty much as the center of their universe, wouldn't go to a groomer, then... who here would?


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## zefif (Aug 14, 2010)

wka:

Oddly enough, I never longed to live in Greece. I only miss Greece in terms of missing the sea and the islands, and missing people who I love. When living in Greece I did miss the countryside and spaces of Australia as well as friends. However, having my dogs with me, my own 'family', would help me be at home anywhere.

I wont argue that Greece offers a much more interesting and fun lifestyle. Consider where I live. I work 75klms away from home and I lose minimum 2 hours a day in driving to and from work. When I get home I never go out again if I can help it. I have no real social life. So ANY social life is better than what I have! LOL

Plus Greece is in Europe, so visiting friends in other EU countries is way easier.

You're right about the trial run thing too. I woke up yesterday and realised that nothing HAS to be temporary OR permanent. Things can always be changed or not changed. Its made me feel so much freer! LOL Leaving my home here means I can come back if it doesn't work. Selling up and burning bridges isnt a great idea.

As you said, the main problem is having money behind me. My mother is on a pension, my brother makes less now for more work than before and doesn't get paid on time and is unsure if the place he works for will survive the crisis. So yeah. This is not a good time. 

I am thinking that whatever happens I need to set myself up with some savings and give Greece some time to recover a bit. See how things pan out. Maybe I'll be ready to jump in in about 2 years.

I do have relatives who have summer houses on Paros which are empty in winter, but without savings I couldn't live unless I could find some kind of work. So thats not an option right now. And we have land to build on when/if i ever decide to settle and sell my house to build there. Living in Athens is not an option. The house isnt big enough for me, my mother, my brother and 2 large dogs. Even if Mom wants me back badly, I doubt she'll want me AND the dogs! 

Next time I visit Greece I'll definitely go check out Syros as well. Could be there's more potential work there.

zefi


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## hecate (Jul 12, 2010)

zefif said:


> Hec:
> I never considered myself a 'real' greek in that I never longed for the old country though I was born there. I lived in Greece for 14 years growing up and disliked it (except for Paros) the entire 14 years. I picked Australia as my home but could easily have moved to any country where things are more organised, or should I say, more like the way they are in the USA or Australia. I picked Australia cause of my childhood spent here and the connections I felt due to that. Plus I love the countryside which is why I chose to live in a remote area.
> 
> *Why not. Makes complete sense. And after [ _________how many years in Oz???], you've changed and are thinking of moving on. And lucky. LUCKY that you have the freedom to do so.*
> ...


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## zefif (Aug 14, 2010)

Yes. The biggest issue is not needing to work on an island in order to live. And dont rush into anything. LOL


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## pellasgos (Mar 9, 2010)

hecate said:


> G'day Zefi
> 
> *I know what it's like to grapple with all this, (including making major life choices around pets, but....) *
> 
> ...



The most primitive places I have ever lived would be Chicago and New York, instead of stray dogs you have stray people going hungry and would shoot you for a quarter! I have lived half my life in the States and half in Greece, I can say the last two years I lived in Greece I was able to put more money away than working in the U.S for five. And mind you I moved to Greece during a crisis with a non Greek wife. I would say listen to your heart and go for it, you will find the Greeks are more well mannered and civilized than you think. Just don't become mellow-dramatic like other expats!


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## pellasgos (Mar 9, 2010)

zefif said:


> Hi. I just joined this forum to help me think things through. I have had a quick look around on some other threads but thought I'd take the time to ask my own questions as well.
> 
> I was born in Athens, moved to Australia when I was 1yr old, then moved back at 10yrs for 14 years. I speak greek well, I'm a greek and australian citizen and I have a family home in Athens where my mother lives and land on Paros. I have cousins who live on Paros and some on Naxos. I hate Athens with a passion and cannot see myself living there for all the money in the world. If I moved back it would be to Paros or Naxos.
> 
> ...


The most primitive places I have ever lived would be Chicago and New York, instead of stray dogs you have stray people going hungry and would shoot you for a quarter! I have lived half my life in the States and half in Greece, I can say the last two years I lived in Greece I was able to put more money away than working in the U.S for five. And mind you I moved to Greece during a crisis with a non Greek wife. I would say listen to your heart and go for it, you will find the Greeks are more well mannered and civilized than you think. Just don't become mellow-dramatic like other expats!


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## kris22 (Mar 18, 2012)

my dear friend
i am by nationality greek
i have lived and loved the uk for six years
to the point of now thinking and dreaming in english
and returned to greece for the same reasons as yourself, family
hoping that being skilled in what i do best( ia m a UK specialised shoulder surgeon)i will prove my worth and continue with my career, close to the people i love
so wrong...
NOONE will allow anyone in the same field to thrive or even have a chance, the rule is if you re better we will not try reach you but we will drag you down 
backstabbing,mudthrowing slaundering my collegues
and the lifestyle...
yes,i love having dinner at me mom's, munching her glorious gemista, but what about rudeness dirt,aggressiveness,ignorance,lack of respect for others and arrogance?no lady,you are not the most beautiful girl in the world...
i regret returning every day
home is where you are missed when you are gone.where you miss being.where you can be yourself
beautiful greece
for holidays..


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## asimenia (Feb 20, 2012)

The last comment is one of the truest I have found on this site - I have spent an hour reading through message and questions and I'm beginning to think we all live in different countries! I suppose it depends on your 'means' and lifestyle. Once you are in business of any kind in Greece you enter a whole new Greece and meet a new bunch of Greeks trying to pour water on your passion at every turn. You enter the tax system which bleeds you dry - and when you pay the correct taxes etc - you are still treated as a cheat ....... well you must have cheated - you are in business - I sent an IKA official packing for speaking to me rudely without cause - because I had employed a local girl, whom I paid for over the odds AND paid IKA fully. 
Greece can destroy even those that are of the happiest disposition! 
When I was young and single without any responsibilities Greece was wonderful! I had a blast! However when you have children/business etc AND the country is thrown into chaos (as it is now) every corner you turn is a dead end! If it weren't for my children I would have gone to the UK. But my children are Greek, Hopefully they will leave by themselves once they reach 18. There is no future and no enjoyment in living in Greece and Greece is definitely NOT a place to retire to! 
I don;t know how rich and well off the Americans are living in Greece and writing/moderating this forum but for us Europeans on the breadline it's not worth the heartbreak - Greece is excellent for holidays only ...... well that's if the ferries/taxis/airports are not on strike.


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## wka (Sep 18, 2009)

asimenia said:


> I don;t know how rich and well off the Americans are living in Greece and writing/moderating this forum but for us Europeans on the breadline it's not worth the heartbreak - Greece is excellent for holidays only ...... well that's if the ferries/taxis/airports are not on strike.


Since I'm American and the moderator of the forum, may I assume you are referring to me? I assure you, my posts are written for the 'average' person, never assuming independent wealth. I think I'm very transparent in my posts, and I've said dozens of times on here that it's essential that a person find work before coming, be fluent in Greek to find a job, and that they can be assured of not being able to 'make' money, just to scrape by IF they are lucky, and that many are not able to make it work and leave. I am not rich at all, in fact I am certain that we make far less money than you, so please don't assume  It is all a matter of personal choices, and as you yourself say, before you CHOSE children, a business, and a house, you had a great time in Greece. Not everyone on this forum is a business owner! (In fact the vast majority of us are not.) There is plenty of room here for varied opinions but please if you'd like to talk about how 'rich and well off' I am, either send me a PM or have the courtesy to mention me by name. If you were referring to someone else, forgive my assumption.


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## asimenia (Feb 20, 2012)

wka said:


> Since I'm American and the moderator of the forum, may I assume you are referring to me? I assure you, my posts are written for the 'average' person, never assuming independent wealth. I think I'm very transparent in my posts, and I've said dozens of times on here that it's essential that a person find work before coming, be fluent in Greek to find a job, and that they can be assured of not being able to 'make' money, just to scrape by IF they are lucky, and that many are not able to make it work and leave. I am not rich at all, in fact I am certain that we make far less money than you, so please don't assume  It is all a matter of personal choices, and as you yourself say, before you CHOSE children, a business, and a house, you had a great time in Greece. Not everyone on this forum is a business owner! (In fact the vast majority of us are not.) There is plenty of room here for varied opinions but please if you'd like to talk about how 'rich and well off' I am, either send me a PM or have the courtesy to mention me by name. If you were referring to someone else, forgive my assumption.


I apologise - it wasn't meant as a put down - just an observation (and it wasn't meant solely for you but I noticed you and other Americans have positive outlooks and are encouraging people to come over - I think my positive thinking has got up and gone! - I envy your positivity). Maybe you are living in a better place where work is available or your husband is one of the lucky one's that still has a job - but up here in Epirus life is getting worse by the second.


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## wka (Sep 18, 2009)

asimenia said:


> I apologise - it wasn't meant as a put down - just an observation (and it wasn't meant solely for you but I noticed you and other Americans have positive outlooks and are encouraging people to come over - I think my positive thinking has got up and gone! - I envy your positivity). Maybe you are living in a better place where work is available or your husband is one of the lucky one's that still has a job - but up here in Epirus life is getting worse by the second.


I believe you about Epirus. We live in Rodopi, which has the highest unemployment in Greece, and the 2nd highest suicide rate out of the 51 prefectures. I encourage people to come over if they fulfill the basic requirements: have a job, speak Greek, have the legal right to do so (for Americans this is .01%), have significant savings, and desperately want to live here. Otherwise, I express my very strong reservations. But it's up to the individual. I can't lie: my quality of life and personal 'happiness index' has skyrocketed since I moved to Greece. Different people have different priorities, though. You'll find a lot of people who cannot be happy on less than €600/month. And then you'll find others who are happy as clams for their reasons. But if someone came on here and said "I have no job, no money, and don't speak Greek - should I move to Greece?" my answer would be "not now - line up a job, save money, learn Greek." I won't tell anyone "no, never, under any circumstances" because that's dishonest in my opinion.


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