# Beggars



## David_&_Letitia (Jul 8, 2012)

Is it just me, or has there been an increase in the number of beggars outside supermarkets here in the last couple of weeks? We have been living here for nearly 1 year now, and until very recently, we hadn't seen any at all. It now seems that both in Paphos and Polis, you can't shop without finding a beggar outside the store.


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## Rema (Aug 12, 2012)

David_&_Letitia said:


> Is it just me, or has there been an increase in the number of beggars outside supermarkets here in the last couple of weeks? We have been living here for nearly 1 year now, and until very recently, we hadn't seen any at all. It now seems that both in Paphos and Polis, you can't shop without finding a beggar outside the store.


I've not seen any yet. Maybe folk jumping on the migrant bandwagon.


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## southcoastlady (Apr 18, 2015)

David_&_Letitia said:


> Is it just me, or has there been an increase in the number of beggars outside supermarkets here in the last couple of weeks? We have been living here for nearly 1 year now, and until very recently, we hadn't seen any at all. It now seems that both in Paphos and Polis, you can't shop without finding a beggar outside the store.


Over the last six months I have often noticed a beggar outside lidl in Paphos, which I find quite intimidating.

There has been a woman beggar outside Polis Paps on a few occasions - slumped on the group with her hand open. I know a woman who owns a local tavern who saw her and said come and work for me - I will feed you and pay you. Guess what - the beggar got up and walked away.

Pity the shops can't/won't move them on.

Just like being back in the UK really!


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## Veronica (Apr 5, 2008)

There are gangs of them who live in large rented houses, get dropped off to do their begging in Mercedes. Not genuine beggars at all and they make more money from their begging than most hard working people.
Mostly from Romania.

Sorry to say I tell them to get on the first plane back to where they belong.


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## David_&_Letitia (Jul 8, 2012)

Veronica said:


> There are gangs of them who live in large rented houses, get dropped off to do their begging in Mercedes. Not genuine beggars at all and they make more money from their begging than most hard working people.
> Mostly from Romania.
> 
> Sorry to say I tell them to get on the first plane back to where they belong.


I think that's what put me off - the ones I've seen here are Eastern European and begging has become endemic in the UK perpetrated by (mainly) Romanians. I always feel a little guilty not 'helping' when I feel there is genuine need, but the ones here just reminded me of the UK and as you said, I always wonder if they are organised.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

I remember in Spain, there was a beggar outside of Mercadona, the supermarket. He looked ragged and worn and was eastern european I think.It was late in the day and I was about to go into the supermarket and I saw him get up and follow a lady who was walking out of the supermarket with lots of shopping. She gave him a couple of the carrier bags of shopping and I thought, hhhmm thats kind of her......... they both proceeded to a rather smart looking car, he got in the drivers seat, gave her a peck on the cheek and they drove off!!!!

Jo xxx


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## Stevesolar (Dec 21, 2012)

Hi,
I really hate these Romanian beggars that you see in the UK - they are taking British beggars jobs!
Cheers
Steve


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## Veronica (Apr 5, 2008)

David_&_Letitia said:


> I think that's what put me off - the ones I've seen here are Eastern European and begging has become endemic in the UK perpetrated by (mainly) Romanians. I always feel a little guilty not 'helping' when I feel there is genuine need, but the ones here just reminded me of the UK and as you said, I always wonder if they are organised.


They are definitely organised. Someone I know lives near a house where a gang of them live. She has watched them coming and going in a Mercedes. The gang leader takes a car load and drops them off at different locations. When they are not 'working' they are dressed in nice clothes, going out shopping, having swimming pool parties and the like.


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## Sarchy (Feb 14, 2011)

We have lived here for just over 3 years and even when we were here on holiday before that there were always beggars around. Does anyone remember the chap in the wheelchair outside of Paps down by the harbour? There is also a young man who stands outside the different Lidl shops who looks as though he has a claw hand and a limp, I've seen him walking quite normally. 

The last time we went to Edinburgh, we passed young "beggars" outside all the entrance ways to Waverley railway station. We would not give them anything and one of them started to get quite aggressive until I got my phone out and threatened to call the police and he walked off...but soon made his way back there. On one occasion we were walking down towards one of the entrances and we overheard one of these "beggars" on his phone (much newer and better than mine) telling someone that he had made a fortune at that entrance that day but was now going to move onto the evening crowds up the Royal Mile! Nobody should have the need to go begging in this day and age, however there are people in genuine need who are being badly hit by these con artists, because people do not believe that they are actual, genuine beggars.


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## Baywatch (Mar 30, 2014)

Sarchy said:


> We have lived here for just over 3 years and even when we were here on holiday before that there were always beggars around. Does anyone remember the chap in the wheelchair outside of Paps down by the harbour? There is also a young man who stands outside the different Lidl shops who looks as though he has a claw hand and a limp, I've seen him walking quite normally.
> 
> The last time we went to Edinburgh, we passed young "beggars" outside all the entrance ways to Waverley railway station. We would not give them anything and one of them started to get quite aggressive until I got my phone out and threatened to call the police and he walked off...but soon made his way back there. On one occasion we were walking down towards one of the entrances and we overheard one of these "beggars" on his phone (much newer and better than mine) telling someone that he had made a fortune at that entrance that day but was now going to move onto the evening crowds up the Royal Mile! Nobody should have the need to go begging in this day and age, however there are people in genuine need who are being badly hit by these con artists, because people do not believe that they are actual, genuine beggars.


Perhaps a visit to their home-countries would be good for many, to see how many really live.

And this thread must be more chit-chat then about Cyprus, so perhaps it should be moved


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Baywatch said:


> Perhaps a visit to their home-countries would be good for many, to see how many really live.
> 
> And this thread must be more chit-chat then about Cyprus, so perhaps it should be moved



Chit chat is great on the forums dont you think?? The original comment was about Cyprus tho, not about visiting other countries lol

Jo xxx


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## Baywatch (Mar 30, 2014)

jojo said:


> Chit chat is great on the forums dont you think?? The original comment was about Cyprus tho, not about visiting other countries lol
> 
> Jo xxx


There is a special section for that called Mufflon.

What the original thread was about is not interesting, it has gone stray.


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## Veronica (Apr 5, 2008)

I think it is relevant to life in Cyprus as the problem of these beggars is getting worse.
Unfortunately since we joined the EU and countries like Romania also became a part of it these criminal gangs (that is what they are) have become a problem.


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## southcoastlady (Apr 18, 2015)

Baywatch said:


> There is a special section for that called Mufflon.
> 
> What the original thread was about is not interesting, it has gone stray.


In your opinion.


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## Pparker (Apr 7, 2015)

simply don't give beggars of any nationality any money, hopefully they will move away even decide to get work.


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## MacManiac (Jan 25, 2012)

Baywatch said:


> There is a special section for that called Mufflon.
> 
> What the original thread was about is not interesting, it has gone stray.


Congratulations on your appointment as the moderator on this forum


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## David_&_Letitia (Jul 8, 2012)

Baywatch said:


> What the original thread was about is not interesting, it has gone stray.


Anders, there are threads which are not interesting or relevant (to me) on the Forum, but I don't feel the need to comment on their lack of interest or relevance (to me). 

Surely, if you have nothing to add or advance a viewpoint, then you just ignore the thread?


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## Baywatch (Mar 30, 2014)

David_&_Letitia said:


> Anders, there are threads which are not interesting or relevant (to me) on the Forum, but I don't feel the need to comment on their lack of interest or relevance (to me).
> 
> Surely, if you have nothing to add or advance a viewpoint, then you just ignore the thread?


I have a lot to add but I am sure the moderator will give me penalties. But if everything can be relevant in this forum why then have the Mouflon created. I don`t think it is only done for meetups and Tykes club or....

But don`t worry I will not interfere in the discussion, for me it is just embarrassing to read


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## David_&_Letitia (Jul 8, 2012)

Veronica said:


> I think it is relevant to life in Cyprus as the problem of these beggars is getting worse.
> Unfortunately since we joined the EU and countries like Romania also became a part of it these criminal gangs (that is what they are) have become a problem.


I totally agree Veronica. I started the thread, because I had not seen beggars here during our first 10 months, but it seems that you can't go shopping now without coming across one. 

I think that for most people, the idea of someone being reduced to begging in the street would be such a humiliating and degrading experience that your heart would naturally go out to the individual and you would want to help them restore some dignity in their lives. Unfortunately, organised begging is now an industry which seeks to capitalise on these feelings, and that is (in my opinion) quite appalling. Unfortunately, the EU has produced a clash of cultures, where such attitudes (ie the organised begging industry) is more natural to Eastern Europe that Western Europe. Unfortunately, the PC Brigade will see that statement as being racist, which is a travesty. Remember the tale about the King's invisible clothes? Sometimes, the truth is staring us in the face, and we feel unable to state the obvious.


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## mapa (Feb 4, 2015)

Brings to mind our experience in Zante couple of years ago, we went on one of those tourist trains and a lame person approached begging for money. We didn't give him anything but an hour later we saw him walking normally along the sea front - obviously he'd finished his 'working day' !

If I want to help someone on the streets II give them a piece of fruit or a drink but never money, you don't know if they'll spend it on alcohol or drugs.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

mapa said:


> *If I want to help someone on the streets II give them a piece of fruit or a drink but never money....*



Good advice!!

Jo xxx


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## Veronica (Apr 5, 2008)

I think that far from being of no interest or relevant to the forum hopefully this discussion has made those who would feel sorry for these people and give them money realise that in fact they are not genuine and will not feel tempted to give them money.

I remember once coming out of a fish and chip shop in the North of England and there was a beggar lady on the pavement. I handed her my fish and chips, which I had not yet touched and she just threw them on the ground. This experience hardened me to these people.


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## Karen and Dave (May 23, 2012)

Well there you go then, the comfortable ex pats of Cyprus have written off all people asking for money on the streets as cheats and fakes!! I'm sorry but I don't agree; I haven't seen that many in Cyprus when we are there but I do see lots in the UK. I (and my wife) quite often take the time to stop and speak to people begging on the street and I would suggest that it's pretty easy to spot the fakes if you actually take the time to talk (and you may actually find them to be interesting people with interesting stories to tell) . Lots of people are facing difficult times both financially and medically and I for one will continue to help where I can, however small that is. I hope that none of you on here fall on hard times and need the help of others!


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## David_&_Letitia (Jul 8, 2012)

Karen and Dave said:


> *Well there you go then, the comfortable ex pats of Cyprus have written off all people asking for money on the streets as cheats and fakes!!* I'm sorry but I don't agree; I haven't seen that many in Cyprus when we are there but I do see lots in the UK. I (and my wife) quite often take the time to stop and speak to people begging on the street and I would suggest that it's pretty easy to spot the fakes if you actually take the time to talk (and you may actually find them to be interesting people with interesting stories to tell) . Lots of people are facing difficult times both financially and medically and I for one will continue to help where I can, however small that is. I hope that none of you on here fall on hard times and need the help of others!


...and you have written off all expats as 'comfortable' and uncaring about the needy! Some choose to direct their resources (time, money, skills) through charities and others have eased genuine cases of need by raising money themselves and channelling it directly to the needy. Yet more offer food rather than money.

In cases of genuine need, I think that most people would help where they can, but in the UK especially, there is no justifiable reason to be living on the streets in destitution. We have a welfare system which provides a roof over your head and money for food. Unfortunately, many of those on UK streets are the front end of a business and that has made giving more difficult. It seems that that industry may have opened up a Cyprus branch.

Sometimes, givers have to learn to to set limits, because quite often takers don't have any.


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## Baywatch (Mar 30, 2014)

Veronica said:


> I think that far from being of no interest or relevant to the forum hopefully this discussion has made those who would feel sorry for these people and give them money realise that in fact they are not genuine and will not feel tempted to give them money.
> 
> I remember once coming out of a fish and chip shop in the North of England and there was a beggar lady on the pavement. I handed her my fish and chips, which I had not yet touched and she just threw them on the ground. This experience hardened me to these people.


So you in your wisdom know that all are fakes? You should visit Romania or Bulgaria. It is not much use for them to beg there, so they move

Europe now have the worst refugee crisis since WWII. Or they are also fakes?

I am sure there are fake people that make a business out of the misery others are in, but that is the human nature. That you see in all fields.

David_Letitia, you write that UK have a system where no one has to beg or live on the street. How come that so many war veterans live on the street in UK?


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Baywatch said:


> So you in your wisdom know that all are fakes? You should visit Romania or Bulgaria. It is not much use for them to beg there, so they move
> 
> Europe now have the worst refugee crisis since WWII. Or they are also fakes?
> 
> ...


 In the uk its been established that there is a lot of propaganda about veterans being homeless. Mostly those who are, have other issues that need addressing. I'm not heartless, but as previously said giving to charities and helping in a constructive way is far less demeaning and risky than handing over money to those who are "apparently" in need. Personally, I'm of the opinion that giving money to genuine beggars does little to help them long term and only satisfies the self esteem of the giver. 

So for those who want to help, they should look to finding or organising a more sustainable route to do so. If only to prevent exploitation. 

Jo xxx

Sent from my D5803 using Expat Forum


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## David_&_Letitia (Jul 8, 2012)

Baywatch said:


> David_Letitia, you write that UK have a system where no one has to beg or live on the street. How come that so many war veterans live on the street in UK?


Actually I said that there was no *justifiable* reason for anyone in the UK to be living on the streets in destitution.

As far as war veterans are concerned, there are a number of factors to be taken into account including mental health and alcohol abuse. However, in my experience (as a war veteran myself), it's mainly pride. Soldiers (and ex soldiers) don't want to ask for handouts and generally speaking, they do not seek the help that is actually available to them from the government and from service charities.


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## David_&_Letitia (Jul 8, 2012)

jojo said:


> ..Personally, I'm of the opinion that giving money to genuine beggars does little to help them long term and only satisfies the self esteem of the giver.
> 
> So for those who want to help, they should look to finding or organising a more sustainable route to do so. If only to prevent exploitation.


Absolutely agree - give a man a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime.


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## Baywatch (Mar 30, 2014)

jojo said:


> In the uk its been established that there is a lot of propaganda about veterans being homeless. Mostly those who are, have other issues that need addressing. I'm not heartless, but as previously said giving to charities and helping in a constructive way is far less demeaning and risky than handing over money to those who are "apparently" in need. Personally, I'm of the opinion that giving money to genuine beggars does little to help them long term and only satisfies the self esteem of the giver.
> 
> So for those who want to help, they should look to finding or organising a more sustainable route to do so. If only to prevent exploitation.
> 
> ...


The problem is that many times one member of a family is begging, the rest of often big families are still in f.ex Romania. It is hard to send food back, money is easier.


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## PeteandSylv (Sep 24, 2008)

Baywatch said:


> The problem is that many times one member of a family is begging, the rest of often big families are still in f.ex Romania. It is hard to send food back, money is easier.


That does not explain the always presented handicaps of most of the beggars we see here. These are the ones that many have described as suddenly losing their limps when they walk to their Mercs. Nor does it explain the obvious organisation of these people in gangs that move around.

The suggestion that ex-pats here are smug with no feelings or sympathies for those in need is rather insulting to all of those that donate so much time and effort in running the charities that help those in need and those that offer their contributions.

The topic is relevant to Cyprus as originally presented and comparisons to the extent of the problem and the processes used by beggars elsewhere does not, in my opinion, take the subject off-topic. It helps increase the understanding of the situation.

It is also worth remembering that anyone begging on the street under the guise of handicap or hunger that is not handicapped or hungry is committing an act of fraud certainly morally if not legally.

Pete


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## Veronica (Apr 5, 2008)

Karen and Dave said:


> Well there you go then, the comfortable ex pats of Cyprus have written off all people asking for money on the streets as cheats and fakes!! I'm sorry but I don't agree; I haven't seen that many in Cyprus when we are there but I do see lots in the UK. I (and my wife) quite often take the time to stop and speak to people begging on the street and I would suggest that it's pretty easy to spot the fakes if you actually take the time to talk (and you may actually find them to be interesting people with interesting stories to tell) . Lots of people are facing difficult times both financially and medically and I for one will continue to help where I can, however small that is. I hope that none of you on here fall on hard times and need the help of others!


You seem to have totally disregarded the posts where it has been said that we know that these beggars here in Cyprus are organised gangs. If you have read the thread thoroughly you will see many of us have seen with our own eyes that many of these beggars are not genuine. When your offer of food is thrown back at you, when a 'cripple' gets up and walks without so much as a limp, this sort of thing hardens us towards towards street beggars.
There are plenty of hard up Cypriots since the crisis with the banks and there are charities who help them. These charities also help foreigners who are in genuine need especially families with young children. We "comfortable British expats" prefer to give donations of clothes, food and money to these charities knowing that this is helping people who are in genuine need. The families who end up unable to pay their electricity bills, cannot afford food for their children because both parents lost their jobs when the bank crisis happened. Parents who cannot afford to buy xmas presents for their children, who have to huddle under coats to try to keep warm in the winter. These are the people I choose to help, not the Romanian gangs of pseudo beggars who come here to fleece us.


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## MacManiac (Jan 25, 2012)

Karen and Dave said:


> Well there you go then, the comfortable ex pats of Cyprus have written off all people asking for money on the streets as cheats and fakes!! I'm sorry but I don't agree; I haven't seen that many in Cyprus when we are there but I do see lots in the UK. I (and my wife) quite often take the time to stop and speak to people begging on the street and I would suggest that it's pretty easy to spot the fakes if you actually take the time to talk (and you may actually find them to be interesting people with interesting stories to tell) . Lots of people are facing difficult times both financially and medically and I for one will continue to help where I can, however small that is. I hope that none of you on here fall on hard times and need the help of others!


Quite an unbelievable post. I don't know whether it was meant to be sanctimonious, insulting or written just to exhibit your ignorance. If it was the latter, you certainly succeeded.

"Another slice of b******s pie, Vicar?"


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## zach21uk (Jun 26, 2014)

Karen and Dave said:


> Well there you go then, the comfortable ex pats of Cyprus have written off all people asking for money on the streets as cheats and fakes!! I'm sorry but I don't agree; I haven't seen that many in Cyprus when we are there but I do see lots in the UK. I (and my wife) quite often take the time to stop and speak to people begging on the street and I would suggest that it's pretty easy to spot the fakes if you actually take the time to talk (and you may actually find them to be interesting people with interesting stories to tell) . Lots of people are facing difficult times both financially and medically and I for one will continue to help where I can, however small that is. I hope that none of you on here fall on hard times and need the help of others!


I want to say that while I agree with the SPIRIT of your post, I also agree with the others here that have stated that MOST of the beggars in Cyprus ARE part of organized street gangs, and this is something that most of us have determined through our experiences here gained by interacting with these beggars.

Do not misunderstand though - I do agree with the spirit of your post - it just doesn't really apply to Cyprus. 

I spent 6 years living in Eastern Europe, specifically in Sarajevo (Bosnia) and Belgrade (Serbia), two VERY poor countries, and over the years, I developed a very good eye (just as many of us have) for spotting the fakes and the frauds and the organized gangs which are just as prevalent there as they are here (if not more so). There are also a lot of genuine cases in those areas (which are very easy to spot) and I spent much time, money and effort helping those people as much as I could.

In 14 months in Cyprus (which pales in comparison to most of the folks on this forum who have lived here much longer), I have only encountered one genuine street "beggar" whom I did not hesitate to help.

Offering money or assistance to any of those beggars that are part of gangs is useless as they give most if not ALL of the money to their "controller" for lack of a better word, whom in turn use it for booze, drugs and organized crime.

I refuse to fund that. Even if some of those "organized beggars" are genuine (which may be the case), you can never be sure. Therefore, if you do still want to try and "help" them, I would suggest popping inside the supermarket and buying them a pastry or a drink which you can be reasonably certain won't be given to a boss.

As a second piece of advise, if you do TRULY want to help, I would recommend you get involved with one of the charities here that are responsible for helping those in dire straits - specifically I would recommend Solidarity Paphos Home - I volunteered with them last christmas (and will do so again this christmas) and helped distribute food and other basic essentials. At christmas they also asked for donations of toys and other items which could be wrapped and handed out as gifts to the children of those less fortunate families. It was very humbling and fulfilling and I would suggest that volunteering with this charity (which operates year round) or donating to them, would be far better than assisting those organized street beggars.

Zach


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## Karen and Dave (May 23, 2012)

MacManiac said:


> Quite an unbelievable post. I don't know whether it was meant to be sanctimonious, insulting or written just to exhibit your ignorance. If it was the latter, you certainly succeeded.
> 
> "Another slice of b******s pie, Vicar?"


Thanks for the reply; I assume that you will get the irony of calling me sanctimonious and insulting


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## southcoastlady (Apr 18, 2015)

zach21uk said:


> I want to say that while I agree with the SPIRIT of your post,
> 
> 
> As a second piece of advise, if you do TRULY want to help, I would recommend you get involved with one of the charities here that are responsible for helping those in dire straits - specifically I would recommend Solidarity Paphos Home - I volunteered with them last christmas (and will do so again this christmas) and helped distribute food and other basic essentials. At christmas they also asked for donations of toys and other items which could be wrapped and handed out as gifts to the children of those less fortunate families. It was very humbling and fulfilling and I would suggest that volunteering with this charity (which operates year round) or donating to them, would be far better than assisting those organized street beggars.
> ...


I totally agree with Zach on this point. Towards the end of last year we were involved in raising cash through a quiz and bingo night with the specific aim of raising funds to assist less fortunate families in the Argaka area. Within a few weeks we had raised 400 euros which was distributed between a 'toy fund' which buys, wraps and delivers toys to all the families with children in the local area. The balance was split between two families with children who were experiencing particular hardship. (A very difficult decision one to make as to which families these would be.) 

The local community gave mixed reactions to what we were doing - some very supportive and some out and out against it. No one was put under any pressure and the people who kindly supported the idea knew the cash was going straight to what it had been raised for.

In my opinion each person has to make their own choice on this matter - and I feel no one should judge them on whatever that choice is.


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## Talagirl (Feb 24, 2013)

'In my opinion each person has to make their own choice on this matter - and I feel no one should judge them on whatever that choice is'.

I agree with you southcoastlady. It is far kinder to respect the opinions of other people even if they differ vastly from your own as no one has exactly the same view on life.


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## wizard4 (Feb 3, 2013)

I got to say something, this is a fascinating thread, from a simple question ( has anyone noticed an increase of beggars in Paphos Polis ) we have had an amazing response from everyone. The fact is that begging is to be found no matter where you live, some is genuine and some have no need to do it, and yes there are organised groups involved. How each one of us deals with these people is down to individual choice and beliefs. A quote I heard "Walk a mile in a man's shoes before you judge him" springs to mind !!!!!!!
Rock on the forum an amazing place.

Cheers

Ray


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