# Sending money from Dubai to UK



## Rob_London

Hi,

I am just about to accept a job in Dubai and after much investigatory work (mainly on this site) am now comfortable that the package itself is adequate for a good way of life. However, I have significant financial commitments in the UK that will need to be paid from my salary in Dubai and am concerned one of the major benefits of moving over there (no tax) will be jeorpordised by her majesty's revenue department when i send funds home.

Can anyone give me some advice on this? e.g what the thresholds are; what the most tax efficient transfer methods are; etc.

Thanks!


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## sayfur79

I'm about to do that aswell. I also have a mortgage in UK which I intend on paying back from my Dubai salary. Are there any rules on sending money to UK other than the commission you pay....

Also if you don't mind, whats the package? I've been offered 30k/month (transport/accommodation included) + 10% bonus + medical+schooling (got no kids though..).


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## Rob_London

mine's approx. 500k pa, but no accommodation or travel thrown in, so net net fairly similar i imagine (unless you're being kept in the Burj, or whatever it's called, of course!).


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## sayfur79

i meant 30k/month includes travel + accom (i.e don't get travel or accom allowance). I'm beginning to think I've been offered lower than I should be getting because I initially told them 30k seems OK (finger in the air figure I had in the initial interview). Out of interest, what field are you working in and how much experience do you have. I'm working as a business analyst in telco.


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## Rob_London

I'm working in banking, approximately 10 years experience; in middle management.

The package is made up of various relocation related bonus' so not out and out salary.

I have been told that 10k per month surplus cash will make for a nice life.


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## Elphaba

Without specific details I cannot give advice on your individual cases, but would point out that you do not lose liability to UK tax simply by moving abroad. If you move now for example, you could still be liable for UK income tax for the remainder of this tax year. You have to consider the date you move, how long you will be away and whether you have completed the right paperwork.

I have covered these issues in number of other threads, so you may like to do search. (Note also, that I advise on these issues professionally.)

For moving small amounts (by which I mean below GBP 10K) you might as well do online transfers from your UAE to UK bank account, or try Western Union.


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## Rob_London

Elphaba, many thanks for your assistance.

To elaborate a little futher, I will be in Dubai for at least 14 months, beginning in February 2009.

The maximum transfers amounts are going to be closer to GBP 1k rather than 10k, though I will also be renting my London based property for approximately £1500 per month, which may or may not also effect my tax position.

Obviously this is becomming quite specific to me now so it may be worth discussing offline. You're a qualified tax advisor/accountant I take it? Do you have a business email address I can contact you on?

Many thanks,

Rob


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## Elphaba

Rob_London said:


> Elphaba, many thanks for your assistance.
> 
> To elaborate a little futher, I will be in Dubai for at least 14 months, beginning in February 2009.
> 
> The maximum transfers amounts are going to be closer to GBP 1k rather than 10k, though I will also be renting my London based property for approximately £1500 per month, which may or may not also effect my tax position.
> 
> Obviously this is becomming quite specific to me now so it may be worth discussing offline. You're a qualified tax advisor/accountant I take it? Do you have a business email address I can contact you on?
> 
> Many thanks,
> 
> Rob


If you make one more post, your PM facility will be activated and I will send you my details. 

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## Rob_London

As discussed...


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## crazymazy1980

Rob_London said:


> Hi,
> 
> I am just about to accept a job in Dubai and after much investigatory work (mainly on this site) am now comfortable that the package itself is adequate for a good way of life. However, I have significant financial commitments in the UK that will need to be paid from my salary in Dubai and am concerned one of the major benefits of moving over there (no tax) will be jeorpordised by her majesty's revenue department when i send funds home.
> 
> Can anyone give me some advice on this? e.g what the thresholds are; what the most tax efficient transfer methods are; etc.
> 
> Thanks!


I rang HMRC whilst I was back in the UK (Dec 08) and the advice right from the horses mouth was this:

As long as I am non-resident for the year I leave and remain so at least until after the April after I left (so say left in Sept '08 need to be non-resident until April '10) I can tranfer as much money as I want back to the UK without it being subject to tax - ONCE you have filled in your P85 and it is registered with HMRC - best to ring them to check this as well.

I can return to the UK as long as I do not stay a total of 91 days or more in any tax year else I will be again liable for UK tax for that whole years earnings.

So if my understanding is right, plan to return between February and April and transfer any lump sums you intend to remit before the start of the tax year you intend to return.

Is this a correct assessment?


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## Elphaba

You may spend a maximim of 89 days in the UK, now including days of arrival and departure in the UK per tax year, before losing your non-resident status. The rules have changed.


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## crazymazy1980

Elphaba said:


> You may spend a maximim of 89 days in the UK, now including days of arrival and departure in the UK per tax year, before losing your non-resident status. The rules have changed.
> 
> 
> -


Elphaba the technical expert at the HMRC (as the call centre lady didn't know) told me 91 nights on Monday 15th Dec, have they changed since Monday?


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## FlyingDodo

That is the same advice HMRC gave me when I called them about my P85.


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## rj.uk

I think I am being thick here - so the situation is that once you have signed your form P85 that any amount you send (which will be below £10k) will be subject to tax???? How will the tax man find out then??


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## crazymazy1980

rj.uk said:


> I think I am being thick here - so the situation is that once you have signed your form P85 that any amount you send (which will be below £10k) will be subject to tax???? How will the tax man find out then??


No!!

Sign P85 and leave country (say today 18th December)

You can now transfer money back to the UK - TAX FREE as long as:

1. You don't return to the UK permanently before end of the next FULL tax year - Next full tax year ends April 2010

AND

2. Within each tax year you stay you don't spend any more than 89 days (91nights) in the UK

The technical expert told me that it did not matter how much you send back although HMRC will be informed of transfers around the GBP5000 figure (not the GBP10,000 figure people quote).

I was told if I wanted to remit any money back to the UK for when I am due to return permanently to do it in the tax year BEFORE I return so if I decide to return in May 2011 to do it before March 31 2011 as tax year is April to April.

Hope that clarifies


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## FlyingDodo

I should let you know that banks will report all transfers around GBP5000 (as Crazy says), but sometimes as low as around GBP3000.


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## rj.uk

crazymazy1980 said:


> No!!
> 
> Sign P85 and leave country (say today 18th December)
> 
> You can now transfer money back to the UK - TAX FREE as long as:
> 
> 1. You don't return to the UK permanently before end of the next FULL tax year - Next full tax year ends April 2010
> 
> AND
> 
> 2. Within each tax year you stay you don't spend any more than 89 days (91nights) in the UK
> 
> The technical expert told me that it did not matter how much you send back although HMRC will be informed of transfers around the GBP5000 figure (not the GBP10,000 figure people quote).
> 
> I was told if I wanted to remit any money back to the UK for when I am due to return permanently to do it in the tax year BEFORE I return so if I decide to return in May 2011 to do it before March 31 2011 as tax year is April to April.
> 
> Hope that clarifies


Thanks for that.


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## crazymazy1980

rj.uk said:


> Thanks for that.


As always you are welcome!


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## Rob_London

crazymazy1980; That corroborates exactly with a) what a tax advisor has told me and b) what the financial times told me in an article on this exact point last week.

Thanks for your input.


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## rj.uk

FlyingDodo said:


> I should let you know that banks will report all transfers around GBP5000 (as Crazy says), but sometimes as low as around GBP3000.


Is this a transfer per month or at any one time??? e.g. 2 transfer of below £3000 in a month- does this qualify as being over the limit and will be reported?


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## Andrew Farrant

Guys, my sister works in the ex pat department at HMRC and I finally got some answers from her last night - you are right about the "portion" of the tax year you become ex-pat and the times allowed are as follows :

To remain ex-pat and therefore not liable for UK tax you must not :

1 - spend more than 183 days in the UK in any one year (6 months) OR

2 - AVERAGE more than 91 days per annum in the UK over a rolling four year period

so for example, you spend 90 days back home per annum in years 1, 3 and 4 but in year 2 you spent 100 days ........ guess what ? The thieveing so and so's nail you for tax because your rolling average is too high.

You don't come home in years 1, 2 or 3 but in year four you spend 190 days, they nail you for tax because you have blown the single year limit.

However, most of us won't have sufficient holiday to spend that much time in the UK so we will be ok. So what about bringing the money home ?

There is NO LIMIT to the amount of funds you can bring home without incurring tax liability if you can prove you earned it as an ex-pat with P85 tax exemption, however, you will be taxed on any interest than you earn on the savings you have deposited here because the interest was earned in the UK.

My sister pointed out though that no matter where you live and where you earn, you will ALWAYS have your UK tax free allowance so unless your savings are significant and your interest pretty high, you can offeset the interest earned against your tax free allowance

I have contacted my mortgage company who are more than happy to receive payment from a dubai bank.

Boy do I feel relieved now


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## Andrew Farrant

rj[B said:


> .uk;117883]Is this a transfer per month or at any one time??? e.g. 2 transfer of below £3000 in a month- does this qualify as being over the limit and will be reported?[/[/B]QUOTE]
> 
> I sold my car because I am coming over, got paid mainly in cash but got £6,000 cheque. When I paid it in I got called to the bank managers office to fill forms in detailing where the cheque came from and what the payment was for - he apologised and said they now have to document all transactions of over £2,500 to guard against money laundering.


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## rj.uk

Andrew Farrant said:


> Guys, my sister works in the ex pat department at HMRC and I finally got some answers from her last night - you are right about the "portion" of the tax year you become ex-pat and the times allowed are as follows :
> 
> To remain ex-pat and therefore not liable for UK tax you must not :
> 
> 1 - spend more than 183 days in the UK in any one year (6 months) OR
> 
> 2 - AVERAGE more than 91 days per annum in the UK over a rolling four year period
> 
> so for example, you spend 90 days back home per annum in years 1, 3 and 4 but in year 2 you spent 100 days ........ guess what ? The thieveing so and so's nail you for tax because your rolling average is too high.
> 
> You don't come home in years 1, 2 or 3 but in year four you spend 190 days, they nail you for tax because you have blown the single year limit.
> 
> However, most of us won't have sufficient holiday to spend that much time in the UK so we will be ok. So what about bringing the money home ?
> 
> There is NO LIMIT to the amount of funds you can bring home without incurring tax liability if you can prove you earned it as an ex-pat with P85 tax exemption, however, you will be taxed on any interest than you earn on the savings you have deposited here because the interest was earned in the UK.
> 
> My sister pointed out though that no matter where you live and where you earn, you will ALWAYS have your UK tax free allowance so unless your savings are significant and your interest pretty high, you can offeset the interest earned against your tax free allowance
> 
> I have contacted my mortgage company who are more than happy to receive payment from a dubai bank.
> 
> Boy do I feel relieved now



Thank you for that. I haven't been called to the bank yet after receiving the remittance from hubby twice in the month


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## Lee1971

Andrew Farrant said:


> Guys, my sister works in the ex pat department at HMRC and I finally got some answers from her last night - you are right about the "portion" of the tax year you become ex-pat and the times allowed are as follows :
> 
> To remain ex-pat and therefore not liable for UK tax you must not :
> 
> 1 - spend more than 183 days in the UK in any one year (6 months) OR
> 
> 2 - AVERAGE more than 91 days per annum in the UK over a rolling four year period
> 
> so for example, you spend 90 days back home per annum in years 1, 3 and 4 but in year 2 you spent 100 days ........ guess what ? The thieveing so and so's nail you for tax because your rolling average is too high.
> 
> You don't come home in years 1, 2 or 3 but in year four you spend 190 days, they nail you for tax because you have blown the single year limit.
> 
> However, most of us won't have sufficient holiday to spend that much time in the UK so we will be ok. So what about bringing the money home ?
> 
> There is NO LIMIT to the amount of funds you can bring home without incurring tax liability if you can prove you earned it as an ex-pat with P85 tax exemption, however, you will be taxed on any interest than you earn on the savings you have deposited here because the interest was earned in the UK.
> 
> My sister pointed out though that no matter where you live and where you earn, you will ALWAYS have your UK tax free allowance so unless your savings are significant and your interest pretty high, you can offeset the interest earned against your tax free allowance
> 
> I have contacted my mortgage company who are more than happy to receive payment from a dubai bank.
> 
> Boy do I feel relieved now


Why not just open an Offshore account with HSBC, RBSI, LloydsTSB...this would tick all the boxes? I may be wrong and if so will undoubtedly be corrected by Elphaba who I think is an accountant, but the way I understand it is that for most of us, you will only pay tax on savings interest if your UK source income makes you a higher rate tax payer. The 91 day 180 day rules apply to non resident and not ordinarily resident, cute but important differences!


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## ccieccvpccip

Hi Guys,

I live in UK and my sister live in Dubai. I am about to buy a house in UK, where I need some money as a deposit to get the mortgage. She informed me that she will helping by getting a loan from Dubai and send it across to Uk. Does anyone know what is the maximum money she can transfer from Dubai to UK. Is there any restriction to transfer like say £20,000 on one stretch. Can anyone explain it to me.....

Much appreciated for help in advance.

Cheers.

Ram


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## Elphaba

ccieccvpccip said:


> Hi Guys,
> 
> I live in UK and my sister live in Dubai. I am about to buy a house in UK, where I need some money as a deposit to get the mortgage. She informed me that she will helping by getting a loan from Dubai and send it across to Uk. Does anyone know what is the maximum money she can transfer from Dubai to UK. Is there any restriction to transfer like say £20,000 on one stretch. Can anyone explain it to me.....
> 
> Much appreciated for help in advance.
> 
> Cheers.
> 
> Ram


The only real restriction is the amount the bank will allow you to transfer in one go. The UK bank may also require additional infirmation to satisfy EU ant money laundering regulations.

For currency transfers in excess of AED60K/GBP10k etc you can access wholesale rates, rather then the poorer rates offered by retail banks too.

-


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## Paul_in_AD

With regards to how to qualify for a non-resident, how does the 90 day rule work if I left the uk after the beginning of the tax year? For example, I left in early May 2009 and want to know if I can return to UK in May 2010 yet still meet the rules to not pay tax in the 09/10 tax year (having spent no time in the UK since I left)?


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## Elphaba

Paul_in_AD said:


> With regards to how to qualify for a non-resident, how does the 90 day rule work if I left the uk after the beginning of the tax year? For example, I left in early May 2009 and want to know if I can return to UK in May 2010 yet still meet the rules to not pay tax in the 09/10 tax year (having spent no time in the UK since I left)?



For the 2009/10 year you would be treated as non-resident on the basis that you spent less than 90 days in the UK, your work was outside and you requested non-resident status (HMRC form P85).

For the 2010/2011 tax year, assuming you become UK resident again in May, all earnings will be subject to UK tax from 6th April onwards.

-


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## alfiecat

*Leaving dubai before apr 2011*

i have been an expat since jan 2007. I have filled out the form P85 and am classed as non resident.

I now want to return to UK but need to get my timings correct to avoid the tax man

1. I have spend 32 days in UK since apr 2010.

When can i physically take up a new job in UK without having to pay any of this years tax which has been earnt over here.

thanks


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## Dozza

alfiecat said:


> i have been an expat since jan 2007. I have filled out the form P85 and am classed as non resident.
> 
> I now want to return to UK but need to get my timings correct to avoid the tax man
> 
> 1. I have spend 32 days in UK since apr 2010.
> 
> When can i physically take up a new job in UK without having to pay any of this years tax which has been earnt over here.
> 
> thanks


90 Days in a tax year (In the UK) and you do not pay. So if you have been in the UK for 32 days in the current tax year this gives you 58 days left.

I have fallen short many times & just not declared any earnings from overseas.....To date I have never paid tax on any of it. You may be one of the unlucky one's who gets caught though


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## Elphaba

Dozza said:


> 90 Days in a tax year (In the UK) and you do not pay. So if you have been in the UK for 32 days in the current tax year this gives you 58 days left.
> 
> I have fallen short many times & just not declared any earnings from overseas.....To date I have never paid tax on any of it. You may be one of the unlucky one's who gets caught though


It is a little more complex than that 

90 day is a rule of thumb, but actual HMRC guidance states that your visits to the UK must average no more than 90 days (and never more than 183 days in any one year) over a maximum of four years. 

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## Phill-H

*Sending Money home from the UAE*

Can anyone help me, i have read most of the threads on the UK/UAE tax problems and my question is this;
Can i send money home in the first year/month or do i need to cover a full financial year before it becomes tax free or is it ok as long as i stay out of the UK and not return for more 91 days per year.

Phill H (not the sharpest tool in the box)


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## ryanhart

Elphaba said:


> It is a little more complex than that
> 
> 90 day is a rule of thumb, but actual HMRC guidance states that your visits to the UK must average no more than 90 days (and never more than 183 days in any one year) over a maximum of four years.
> 
> -


Hi there,

I am about to leave the uk for the UAE on the 20th August. Does the April-August time I have spent in the UK this year (Pre-signing the P85 form) Count towards my 183 days a year? Or is it just for the time I am earning abroad?

I will obviously be coming back here for holidays from tim eto time.

Thanks in advance!


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## Felixtoo2

I`m no expert but i would guess that it will count as the Tax year runs April to April, the only way to get the right answer is to either sheck the Tax Office web site or give them a call.


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## ryanhart

Felixtoo2 said:


> I`m no expert but i would guess that it will count as the Tax year runs April to April, the only way to get the right answer is to either sheck the Tax Office web site or give them a call.


Surely this would only count for time spent in the UK without actually paying tax and post completing the P85 form.

Thanks anyway, I will give them a call and post back my findings


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## ryanhart

Felixtoo2 said:


> I`m no expert but i would guess that it will count as the Tax year runs April to April, the only way to get the right answer is to either sheck the Tax Office web site or give them a call.


Spoke to the tax office and they confirmed that the 90 day thing starts from the day you tell them you're leaving the UK (i.e the date you tell them on the P85 form.

Just to confirm, if you've been paying tax in the UK, the 183 days a year/ average of 91 days a year over 4 years, starts from the day yo stop paying tax.


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