# Moved to Spain



## nunsey (Jul 24, 2012)

Hello, im Mark.
Ive moved/moving to Spain, Costa del sol.
Im 43 and been in the building trade all my working life.
I just love the sun and Spain is perfect for it. I lived in Cyprus for 6 years from 2005 - and really loved it there too. I lived in the south in a small place called Pissouri, ( anyone no it ?? ) Its near Aphrodites rock.
Pissouri has a very large ex pat community and it didnt take long finding work and continuing work for the 6 years.
People say, ; oh dont go to that country because it says on the news there is a recesion and no jobs, but to hell with that everyone cant stop working can they. There is always someone wanting a job done somewhere and getting to no people in the right area is crucial. Ive not put roots down yet in Costa del sol as i am looking for the right place, ie ex pats.
So, anyone who reads this and maybe can throw little light for me i would appreciate it. When ive settled and up and running i will be looking for work exactly the same as i did in Cyprus, property mainteance, small build, paving, tilling, pagolas, pool cleaning, airport runs, & all Joinery as i am a Proffesional.
I have a big 4x4 pick up truck and god no's how much tools lol, think i might need a garage as well to store them in.
Any good areas or functions for meeting people would be appreciated.
Thankyou so much for reading my introduction
Mark


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## bob_bob (Jan 5, 2011)

Good luck chap, the building industry is finished in Spain, thousands of Spanish builders happy to work for €4 or €5 an hour. You will struggle no matter how hard you are prepared to work.

I lived on Cyprus for a while, Paphos, lovely island.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Also to become a resident in Spain you need to prove income and that you have healthcare, which means that you need a work contract or to be an autonomo (registered self employed). As for a good area, well, who knows??? BTW, airport runs are difficult and AFAIK illegal to Malaga airport and the taxi drivers there dont take too kindly to strangers on their patch - I used to pick my husband up from there regularly cos he commuted and I was approached a couple of times cos they thought I was taking work.

So be warned. Spain isnt an easy country to pitch up in anymore!!! Stick with Cyprus?? 

Jo xxx


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## CampoKid (Mar 29, 2012)

Go for it! The CDS needs more desperate, poor, hungry builders!!


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## Tilley (Jun 10, 2012)

Good Luck with it, I have recently come back having had a look round as wanted to spend a couple of years there, read everything you can on this forum including all the stickys at the top so that you know what you are getting yourself into and make sure you take a fair bit of savings with you as a buffer until you can sort yourself out with some work. I also dont think it will be easy, but wouldn't want to stop someone from persuing a dream. You just need to be very, very realistic about how hard it may be for you. I also wouoldn't try renting in the peak summer months initially as they seem to hike up the rental rates during the holiday season from what I could see going on. I would imagine renting from end September, begining of October could see you negotiating better deals.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Tilley said:


> I also wouoldn't try renting in the peak summer months initially as they seem to hike up the rental rates during the holiday season from what I could see going on. I would imagine renting from end September, begining of October could see you negotiating better deals.


In my experience holiday season lets, whenever it is, are always more expensive, be it Bognor Regis, Benidorm or Bangalore.


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## Tilley (Jun 10, 2012)

Pesky Wesky said:


> In my experience holiday season lets, whenever it is, are always more expensive, be it Bognor Regis, Benidorm or Bangalore.


Your point being ?


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Tilley said:


> Your point being ?


that of course the rents were higher in summer.............. lots of landlords only want short lets so that they _can_ cash in on the high season holiday rates


however - a landlord who is truly looking for a _long term let_ won't change the rent depending on the time of year

the house I rent has had the same rent all year round for the last 8 years..........the owner wants tenants who will stay..........and I have just negotiated it _down_ a bit from next month....


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Tilley said:


> Your point being ?


My point has been explained by xabiachica. You seemed to think it strange that rents were higher in the summer season. Is that what you meant??
I think it's normal.


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## Tilley (Jun 10, 2012)

I didnt think it was strange at all, i was just trying to be helpful to the OP incase it hadn't dawned on them. You know a helpful hint which i thought was what the forum was all about, rather than a caustic comment along the lines of , 'you are a pratt for stating the obvious - no wonder you have so may people who delete their accounts.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Tilley said:


> I didnt think it was strange at all, i was just trying to be helpful to the OP incase it hadn't dawned on them. You know a helpful hint which i thought was what the forum was all about, rather than a caustic comment along the lines of , 'you are a pratt for stating the obvious - no wonder you have so may people who delete their accounts.


:confused2:

we very rarely get people wanting delete their accounts - so few that I could probably name them!!


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Tilley said:


> I didnt think it was strange at all, i was just trying to be helpful to the OP incase it hadn't dawned on them. You know a helpful hint which i thought was what the forum was all about, rather than a caustic comment along the lines of , 'you are a pratt for stating the obvious - no wonder you have so may people who delete their accounts.


 We dont!

Jo


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Tilley said:


> I didnt think it was strange at all, i was just trying to be helpful to the OP incase it hadn't dawned on them. You know a helpful hint which i thought was what the forum was all about, rather than a caustic comment along the lines of , 'you are a pratt for stating the obvious - no wonder you have so may people who delete their accounts.


Tilley, my post was not a caustic comment. It was pointing out that the practise of putting up rents in the summer is a very common one. You did say that you thought


> as they seem to hike up the rental rates during the holiday season from what I could see going on


and from the words you used it seemed that you thought this was an unusual practise.
I'm sorry if I have misinterpreted your words and I will try not to do it again.
PS I hate the word "pratt" and would never use it!


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Can I just point out that this is an information forum, not a "dream party". There is mass employment in Spain and altho I think the OP in this case would have succeeded 10 years ago with his plans, Spain isNT like that anymore. The questions are asked on here and the answers/opinions are given. no one is being deliberately negative. But anything else would be lies and that doesnt help people. They need to know. If thats spoiling dreams then its far better spoilt now than when they give up everything and arrive - its been seen too often by forum members. So its not sensible to critisise peoples opinions, people who have lived in Spain for many years!

anyway, anyone who has any positive comments to make are free to do so

Jo xxx


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## Hybr!d (Oct 9, 2011)

People cant take the truth. They are miserable in the UK and seem to think emigrating will somehow fix that. They will still be miserable. The happy expats are the ones that do not move because they are unhappy! How hard is it to understand that the sun wont pay the bills. There are no jobs, you dont speak a word of Spanish and you know nothing of the culture. Yet it is an easier life? If anything we should be harsher, sod the deleted accounts. Do we really need a thread a day on the same subject. These people clearly dont read a paper or understand basic economics but think they are capitalize of moving entire family's to another continent... Just last week I met someone who was suggesting moving to Spain and had never ever actually been there! LOL! Get a grip! Meh!


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Hybr!d said:


> People cant take the truth. They are miserable in the UK and seem to think emigrating will somehow fix that. They will still be miserable. The happy expats are the ones that do not move because they are unhappy! How hard is it to understand that the sun wont pay the bills. There are no jobs, you dont speak a word of Spanish and you know nothing of the culture. Yet it is an easier life? If anything we should be harsher, sod the deleted accounts. Do we really need a thread a day on the same subject. These people clearly dont read a paper or understand basic economics but think they are capitalize of moving entire family's to another continent... Just last week I met someone who was suggesting moving to Spain and had never ever actually been there! LOL! Get a grip! Meh!


I've been nipping in and out of the forum all day today 'cos I've been doing boring stuff on the computer and its given me a few laughs, including this post. Thanks Hybr!d, Hepa, Jojo, mrypg9, xabia and all those too many to mention! Time for bed now said Zebedee


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

jojo said:


> Can I just point out that this is an information forum, not a "dream party". There is mass employment in Spain and altho I think the OP in this case would have succeeded 10 years ago with his plans, Spain is like that anymore. The questions are asked on here and the answers/opinions are given. no one is being deliberately negative. But anything else would be lies and that doesnt help people. They need to know. If thats spoiling dreams then its far better spoilt now than when they give up everything and arrive - its been seen too often by forum members. So its not sensible to critisise peoples opinions, people who have lived in Spain for many years!
> 
> anyway, anyone who has any positive comments to make are free to do so
> 
> Jo xxx


I agree, as long as it's supposed to read


> Spain isn't like that anymore


!
I think Jojo needs to see Zebedee too


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## Tilley (Jun 10, 2012)

So i'm told nobody gets deleted and then show someone was and then my post gets deleted I thought at the very least there would be free speech approach on here.

When I first started reading here before I joined I thought what a brilliant forum lots of information and people to help and willing to share their knowledge but if you dont sing to the same hymn sheet then you get a sort of pack start on you. 

I read that lady or gentelmans post and because he or she wouldn't lay down and not go to Spain you all seemed to take umbridge. 

Maybe they could be working for someone like Ford UK and be being transferred over to Ford Spain (just an example I am sure there are similar things that happen) but because they dont want to give sufficient detail, for which they may have very good reason they are kind of doubted to such a point that they feel they have to delete their account. 

All they wanted to do was to make a connection with others out there, from the sound of it as they appeared to have made their decison already. Is that such an unreaonable thing to want to do ?

It will mean that the forum ends up being only for the 7 or 8 regular posters, to banter and josh each other along with little value to anyone who still wants to give it a go in Spain.


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## Hybr!d (Oct 9, 2011)

_Before_ the economy was better and prospects were better. Now is not the time to leave the UK for Europe. It is getting worse by the day.

I agree, some have certain circumstances that dont warrant the hard truth, but they are few and far between. They seldom post here asking if they should 'do it'. Mostly because they already know they can.

If you look through this forum, the people that ask are the ones needing reassurance, because they have no savings, need a job and have 5 kids. They want someone to tell them it will 'be ok'... it wont, but that is not what they want to hear.

A few days ago a young single guy was posting about going abroad for a bit, with savings and not needing a job. They received a different response.

Every expat forum is the same, this one is not special. They would get the same response anywhere on the web.

Because of the economy, less people will move, less people will need help, less people will post here and other forums. It has zero to do with posters tone or attitude.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Tilley said:


> So i'm told nobody gets deleted and then show someone was and then my post gets deleted I thought at the very least there would be free speech approach on here.
> 
> When I first started reading here before I joined I thought what a brilliant forum lots of information and people to help and willing to share their knowledge but if you dont sing to the same hymn sheet then you get a sort of pack start on you.
> 
> ...


Tilley, posts are deleted when they break forum rules, one of which is questioning those rules in public. Feel free to PM me if you think I'm being unfair

I dont know what you want - an honest look at Spain, with warnings from those who know? Or pats on the back and soothing words - "Its great, you'll be fine", when, from whats posted by prospective expats it isnt going to be like they think it is. Put it this way. Go and look at the original post on this thread - replace his word CDS, with South of England (a similar size area) - what would you say to him?? - I'm assuming you know how the UK works, just like the posters on here know how Spain works

Do you think we're lying?? What do you think we should be saying? 


Jo xxx


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Tilley said:


> So i'm told nobody gets deleted and then show someone was and then my post gets deleted I thought at the very least there would be free speech approach on here.
> 
> When I first started reading here before I joined I thought what a brilliant forum lots of information and people to help and willing to share their knowledge but if you dont sing to the same hymn sheet then you get a sort of pack start on you.
> 
> ...


Posts are sometimes deleted as Jojo has explained. Members accounts are deleted by the members themselves or by the forum BUT only when they are banned. I can remember 1 or 2 cases.

I think posts on the forum are harsh sometimes. I also think that newcomers are sometimes given essential information in a strong way which they might find hard to swallow and more tact/ diplomacy could be used.

I also think that we have quite a lot of people who state that they want as much info as possible about coming to Spain, but once they realise that the info they are receiving doesn't coincide with their view of Spain they (often) get defensive , are (sometimes) rude and (occasionally) end up lying about their situation. Under these circumstances it's not surprising that regular posters on the forum state their views forcefully.

There have been accusations of "bursting people's bubbles" before now. This is from a previous post of mine on the subject with a few tweaks...

Think for a moment about that. Why do you imagine we would do that? What possible interest could a (large) group of foreigners have for putting off other foreigners? There might be one weird, twisted old git on here who has a ulterior motive behind advising immigrants to stay at home, but so many of us??? People of all ages, economic backgrounds, politics. From completely different work profiles, areas of the UK and even musical tastes?? Just why would we do that?? To many it would be advantageous to have more Brits here. More people to install satellite dishes for, to do their gardening for and to serve beer to.

Many who are thinking of coming to Spain are doing it to find work. *Now why in the world would you come from a country of 8.4% unemployment to a country of over 20% unemployment* with in most cases no or rudimentary Spanish, unrecognised or no qualifications *and expect to find a job ?* Why would you think that coming to a country with over _*50%*_, let's say that again, *over 50% unemployment amongst under 25's* is improving your children's opportunities???
Many, not some, *many *people are genuinely surprised to find that unemployment is higher in Spain, that they will not have health care until they've paid in to the system, that the *Spanish, qualified and unqualified, are going to the UK for work *etc. Another shocker is that there are several languages in Spain! Many many people who are in the first stages of making a move frankly have no idea about Spain

Travelling on a shoestring is an adventure and it's great when you're any age, but it's not what a lot of the people wanting to make the move want. It's not so fun when you've got elderly people in tow or kids of school age. You'll find that many young single people have been told what the situation is like here, but encouraged to come and see for themselves. But a lot of people are desperately looking for better opportunities, a better life, a better future for themselves and their families. How many would make it in today's Spain?

Yes, this is negative. I live here and have lived here for a very long time. I'm worried about my future with a health service that's shrinking, education cuts and businesses closing down left right and centre, and if people ask I will keep telling them the same, as it happens to be the truth.


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## chica escocesa (Jul 23, 2012)

Pesky would you consider coming back to the uk? Do you think you might have to?


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## leedsutdgem (Jun 3, 2010)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Posts are sometimes deleted as Jojo has explained. Members accounts are deleted by the members themselves or by the forum BUT only when they are banned. I can remember 1 or 2 cases.
> 
> I think posts on the forum are harsh sometimes. I also think that newcomers are sometimes given essential information in a strong way which they might find hard to swallow and more tact/ diplomacy could be used.
> 
> ...


I think you sum it up very nicely


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Tilley said:


> So i'm told nobody gets deleted and then show someone was and then my post gets deleted I thought at the very least there would be free speech approach on here.
> 
> When I first started reading here before I joined I thought what a brilliant forum lots of information and people to help and willing to share their knowledge but if you dont sing to the same hymn sheet then you get a sort of pack start on you.
> 
> ...



Firstly, this is one of the most popular, informative, widely-used and friendly forums for British immigrants to Spain.

Secondly...I'm wondering if you have actually lived, worked or been an employer in Spain? If so and your experiences have been positive, we'd be keen to know how you managed to do so well....others could learn from your input.

Thirdly...don't you think there's something lacking in the lives of people who see a bit of sunshine and cheap booze as a 'dream'? Spain is a country comme les autres...better than some but a hard, harsh place to live if you are unemployed.

Fourthly: when we tell people the FACTS of life in Spain with unemployment in somes areas at over 34% we get asked 'Why are you still here then?' Here are some answers: we are here if we don't need to work, already have work, don't have a mortgage we can't afford to pay and a house worth 40% less than we paid for it,can speak reasonable Spanish, have made our lives here, married Spaniards, have children...
Which means we aren't looking for work as a plumber/plasterer/brickie/gardener/beautician/hairdresser and so on...There are millions of unemployed Spaniards with those trades. 

Spain is in deep recession and the economy iosn't likely to pick up for perhaps five to ten years. Anyone who advises people to 'Go for it' should be prepared to fund their ticket home if they come and it all goes pear-shaped.
Which if you read the post about working illegally you'll see it does, with serious consequences.


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## MaidenScotland (Jun 6, 2009)

We have the same problem on the Egypt board.. people want to come out to work and live cheaply and when it is pointed out there are no jobs and it is expensive to live here some bright spark always pips up with.. it's not expensive if you live and eat like a local plus you can work without a work permit. 
Simply why would anyone want to move to another country and lower their standard of living plus work illegally..? Now that is what I call stress,


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

chica escocesa said:


> Pesky would you consider coming back to the uk? Do you think you might have to?


Hmmm, come back to the UK??

Come/ go back to the UK implies that there's something to go back to. I have a very small immediate family in the UK and nothing else, no money, no property, no job contacts, no friends. 

What would my Spanish husband do there? He's a teacher in the state system here. He wouldn't fit easily into a job profile in the UK unless it was manual type work. (I don't include my daughter here as she's 18 and I'm pretty sure would chose to stay here at uni which she starts in Sept for 4 years)

Sooo, if worst came to worst I suppose we could, but I really can't see why we would. Here we've got my husband's family and I would imagine we'd end up living with them/ off them before going to the UK. I also think we'd probably go to some other country before the UK. As you can see, I'm not a fan of my home country. Spain is where I live and where my home is.


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## NickZ (Jun 26, 2009)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Travelling on a shoestring is an adventure and it's great when you're any age.



It's great if you're young. The older I get the more luxuries like a mattress and a pillow seem like essentials.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

MaidenScotland said:


> Simply why would anyone want to move to another country and lower their standard of living plus work illegally..? Now that is what I call stress,


Yep, I've said that before, and that is it in a nutshell, isn't it?


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## leedsutdgem (Jun 3, 2010)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Hmmm, come back to the UK??
> 
> Come/ go back to the UK implies that there's something to go back to. I have a very small immediate family in the UK and nothing else, no money, no property, no job contacts, no friends.
> 
> ...


You sound as if you're in a similar boat to me.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

NickZ said:


> It's great if you're young. The older I get the more luxuries like a mattress and a pillow seem like essentials.


Agreed 100%.

When I was young I didn't care wherre I stayed as long as it was cheap. Now I'd rather stay home if I can't afford at least a 4 star hotel.

The reason we left Prague was that having had a reasonably comfortable 'middle-aged' existence in the UK we got tired of living in a country where we had a nice house, money to spend.....but a much much lower quality of life overall.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

leedsutdgem said:


> You sound as if you're in a similar boat to me.


I'm not unhappy about it though. I'd have liked to have kept in touch with more people, but first I went to Colombia for 2 years in which time my non travelling friends got married and settled down and it became too much effort for them to keep up with the odd one out who wasn't even within travelling distance...


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## Tilley (Jun 10, 2012)

mrypg9 said:


> Firstly, this is one of the most popular, informative, widely-used and friendly forums for British immigrants to Spain.


You need to look at it with a more critical eye. It is a forum where about 4 or 5 peope who live in Spain and one who I beleive now lives in England, use as a vehicle to chat in.

I came back on here to give an update as was grateful for infomation in the begining and as an 'oldie' thought that the polite thing to do, you have little chance of that with many others, so it goes back to being a chat room for a few, a successful forum isn't all about how many posts are on it.

I tried to update and on my thread you have written some glib comment like 'why do all people think it is about either living in an ex-pat community or in the middle of nowhere.

You are not stupid (I think) and I categorically stated that was NOT what I wanted but you carried on regardless. 

I am staying here as when/if we go I need to know about things like what to do with our car to have it there legally and other such matters and am slowly building up the information I need I think, but I am trying to do it by reading not asking things, so that I do not receive more crass replys from certain members.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Tilley said:


> You need to look at it with a more critical eye. It is a forum where about 4 or 5 peope who live in Spain and one who I beleive now lives in England, use as a vehicle to chat in.
> 
> I came back on here to give an update as was grateful for infomation in the begining and as an 'oldie' thought that the polite thing to do, you have little chance of that with many others, so it goes back to being a chat room for a few, a successful forum isn't all about how many posts are on it.
> 
> ...


 Of late, it seems to me that all of your posts are unhelpful and simply aimed at finding fault with the posters and their views. However many people post on here is unimportant. The information they give is valid and given with first hand experience and knowledge. As with all advice, you can either take it or leave it. But there is no need to try to berate it, especially when you have no basis

:focus:

Jo


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## Solwriter (Jan 10, 2012)

I am reading this after commenting on Tilley's thread, so not intending to stir things up. I just clicked that way round.
I do think this is an issue though.

Firstly....
I read the first post on this thread and nearly commented by saying welcome and that I was sure that the OP would get many replies soon, but decided not to. By the next day, I was proved right.

This forum is informative and usually friendly.
I guess I am seen as one of the regulars (although sometimes I can go for weeks without posting).
I post here, rather than on other expat forums, because others are either almost dead, or filled with people talking about getting ripped off when buying their off-plans, or just plain abusive to new posters.
This forum isn't plain abusive, but it is a shame that some people feel unable to post here or ask questions without being criticised.

I have no idea about the number of members of this particular part of the forum or of how many stay or leave.
But I would bet that many, whilst remaining members, do not post or no longer post.

I'm thick skinned and can give as good as I get. I also do not take offense that easily (and even if I do, the next day it is usually forgotten - life's too short). But that comes from years of posting on forums which to outsiders appear like something from the Wild West.

So, by all means, people need to know about the bleak parts of moving to Spain as well as the good parts (and for me, the bleak is pretty major right now...).

But let's have a wider range of views please, and people feeling they can discuss them without being shouted down.
Others will no doubt say that this is my opinion only and fair enough. But from reading threads here over the past months (and noticing who 'likes' rather than posts), it appears to me that others do feel the same way.


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## Guest (Jul 26, 2012)

jojo said:


> The information they give is valid and given with first hand experience and knowledge.


No it isn't, take a look of late.. every other posts from the chosen few start with or contain "I think" before giving their "knowledge". People have even taken to bold'ing or italic'ing the "I think"


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

ShinyAndy said:


> No it isn't, take a look of late.. every other posts from the chosen few start with or contain "I think" before giving their "knowledge". People have even taken to bold'ing or italic'ing the "I think"


 Well andy, if you can offer this guy a work contract and work, then_ I think_ he'd be "made up"!!!

The reason for the *"I thinks"* is simply because we do not have the accurate national statistics at hand and therefore feel it is more polite to make sure that the OP is under no illusion that these are our own thoughts, based on our experience and knowledge!

Jo xxx


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

ShinyAndy said:


> No it isn't, take a look of late.. every other posts from the chosen few start with or contain "I think" before giving their "knowledge". People have even taken to bold'ing or italic'ing the "I think"


I think (no italicising necessary) that a lot of posts are people's opinions, based on their knowledge and experience, and that people on the forum usually know that.
If people are posting about paperwork, legal documents and procedures they may put I think in _italics_ or *bold* because 


They are not 100% sure
Or because they know that that's the way it works in their area, but they have enough experience of Spain to know that it may be different in another area.
I don't think that's strange. Does anyone else?


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

I agree with both Jojo's last post and Solwriter's.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Tilley said:


> You need to look at it with a more critical eye. It is a forum where about 4 or 5 peope who live in Spain and one who I beleive now lives in England, use as a vehicle to chat in.
> 
> I came back on here to give an update as was grateful for infomation in the begining and as an 'oldie' thought that the polite thing to do, you have little chance of that with many others, so it goes back to being a chat room for a few, a successful forum isn't all about how many posts are on it.
> 
> ...


That's how you see it. I think you need to look at other forums before you make such comments.
Thankyou for noticing I am not stupid. . Few other contributors are either.
My comment is a perfectly valid one. Why assume you are included in the phrase 'some people'? And oh dear...I carried on regardless..

I think you should try posting your remarks on certain other immigrant forums and see if your comments get a reception you find more pleasing, as you obviously don't like this one. Yet I notice that the few who criticise can't resist staying on the site..
Looking back over your posts, it's clear that you adopted an aggressive tone immediately you saw a comment you disagreed with. No surprise if you are replied to in kind.
I think you will find there are many more regular contributors to this highly successful forum than you seem to think. Certainly more than four or five.
One site in particular which seems to attract whingeing Brits who have lost money on dodgy property deals might be worth your attention... ...the one to which Sol alreadwas referring, I think, I think. Loads of ill-spelt semi-inarticulate vitriol and abuse there..


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## chica escocesa (Jul 23, 2012)

Oh dear! I do find the overall tone of the forum a bit negative and at times argumentative (sorry and no offence intended, just a newbie's perspective). However this is possibly reflective of current conditions and just another sign of the times. I don't take it personally.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

chica escocesa said:


> Oh dear! I do find the overall tone of the forum a bit negative and at times argumentative (sorry and no offence intended, just a newbie's perspective). However this is possibly reflective of current conditions and just another sign of the times. I don't take it personally.


 In that case, I apologise! The negativity comes from the circumstances. I'm sure that everyone knows of Spains problems if they listen to the news. The opinions of those on here simply reflect that. On the other hand, maybe we should/could try to gloss it a bit. Its very difficult, no one wants to burst peoples bubbles, but sometimes, the reality of living in a country thats on the brink of crashing comes across as negative. Sadly, a lot of new folk are adamant that this cant be!!

There are still lots of good things about Spain, the weather, the views, the space, the people, the fiestas.... Visiting is great, but what else can one say when people tell us they want to move over and get jobs and "live the dream"?????? and then argue or become hostile when we dont respond in the way they'd like???

The forum is, IMO the first port of call in the journey of fact finding, it has to be real and it has to get across certain points. But I guess we must try to do it in a friendlier fashion!!

Jo xxx


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## Solwriter (Jan 10, 2012)

chica escocesa said:


> Oh dear! I do find the overall tone of the forum a bit negative and at times argumentative (sorry and no offence intended, just a newbie's perspective). However this is possibly reflective of current conditions and just another sign of the times. I don't take it personally.


Thanks for letting us know your views on the subject, chica escocesa.
And I agree, it is a sign of the times.
I think.....


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## NickZ (Jun 26, 2009)

Outside of the black and white answer I think the problem is that no one can answer some of the questions for others.

Nobody can answer if you'll be comfortable,happy,tanned,warm, or content. 

Some questions are highly subjective.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

chica escocesa said:


> Oh dear! I do find the overall tone of the forum a bit negative and at times argumentative (sorry and no offence intended, just a newbie's perspective). However this is possibly reflective of current conditions and just another sign of the times. I don't take it personally.


 Maybe you are more mature and less stupid than some of us regular posters

I would love someone to tell me how you could possibly convey the truth about Spain today without being negative. 

Argumentative...do you mean that not everyone agrees with what is posted?
You'd be shocked if you looked in on the other expat/immigrant forums..

This is one of the better forums precisely because it has contributors with a range of political views, backgrounds, professions, tastes, locations in Spain, life experiences and so on.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

NickZ said:


> Outside of the black and white answer I think the problem is that no one can answer some of the questions for others.
> 
> Nobody can answer if you'll be comfortable,happy,tanned,warm, or content.
> 
> Some questions are highly subjective.




Precisely.

How can I or anyone tell someone I have never met where 'the best place to live in Spain ' is, to name just one of those unanswerable questions?


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## Solwriter (Jan 10, 2012)

mrypg9 said:


> Precisely.
> 
> How can I or anyone tell someone I have never met where 'the best place to live in Spain ' is, to name just one of those unanswerable questions?


You can't.
But on that subject, we also need to expect that some who post here will have a different view of the region we live in than we do.


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## chica escocesa (Jul 23, 2012)

Mrypg9 that's exactly what I'm talking about! However, I have enough going on upstairs for you not to get under my (quite thick) skin. There is just no need for the tone you use at times, but that's up to you.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

chica escocesa said:


> Mrypg9 that's exactly what I'm talking about! However, I have enough going on upstairs for you not to get under my (quite thick) skin. There is just no need for the tone you use at times, but that's up to you.



Having met MRYPG9, I can see the twinkle in her eye as she writes these things (I hope ??????). she is one of those "no nonsense", "call a spade a spade" type of people - but she has humour there too!!! (or was it the wine when I met her and I missed her anger lol!!!)

She'll kill me for saying this but her attitude and tone reminds me of Ann Widdicombe 


:behindsofa:

Jo xxxx


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## chica escocesa (Jul 23, 2012)

And jojo thank you I appreciate that. I don't think you could/should or necessarily need to 'sugar coat' anything but maybe people could be let down gently? However, I do appreciate that many people make the decision to move and are completely unprepared (no Spanish, no savings, no skills, families to support), and it happens regularly. This must wear you down. 

I am glad you guys were honest when I asked about moving, however I think there were a lot of positives to my plan (I am multilingual, husband will have income from home, we will have savings to keep us going for at least a year and I will take a career break so I have a job to go back to and I have a degree and experience/skills). I now know it will be far from easy for me to make a living so we won't move unless my husbands income is enough or we can be mortgage free, both of which are still possibilities. It may be good if there are positive aspects of posts that they are acknowledged too.


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## Solwriter (Jan 10, 2012)

jojo said:


> She'll kill me for saying this but her attitude and tone reminds me of Ann Widdicombe
> 
> 
> :behindsofa:
> ...


  
:behindsofa:


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## chica escocesa (Jul 23, 2012)

Lol! Funny, Ann Widdicombe an unpopular national treasure. Perhaps worth bearing in mind??!


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

chica escocesa said:


> Lol! Funny, Ann Widdicombe an unpopular national treasure. Perhaps worth bearing in mind??!


 :behindsofa: 

Jo xxx


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## chica escocesa (Jul 23, 2012)

Ha ha yeah Jo 2 can play that game!!


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

chica escocesa said:


> Oh dear! I do find the overall tone of the forum a bit negative and at times argumentative (sorry and no offence intended, just a newbie's perspective). However this is possibly reflective of current conditions and just another sign of the times. I don't take it personally.


I agree with you sometimes the tone is argumentative and negative. I don't think the negative can be avoided nor do I think it should be. Some people (shinyandy to name one) think some of us are too negative however.
The argumentativity is something that does need to be avoided however, and is often a problem in forums I gather. In general I think we are pretty civilised compared to other places, but even so, I know there's room for improvement. 
Anyway there's a thread in La Tasca where we're trying to thrash it out. Your comments would (honestly) be appreciated.


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## Guest (Jul 26, 2012)

jojo said:


> Having met MRYPG9, I can see the twinkle in her eye as she writes these things (I hope ??????). she is one of those "no nonsense", "call a spade a spade" type of people - but she has humour there too!!! (or was it the wine when I met her and I missed her anger lol!!!)
> 
> She'll kill me for saying this but her attitude and tone reminds me of Ann Widdicombe
> 
> ...


Oooooooh, there is soooooooooooooooooo much mileage in that. I have quite a few, er, thoughts on that, but none that could be published here and, to be fair, I have too much respect for Mary to go down that route. I´d get banned as well. Hehe.

Bloody tempting though...

Mustn`t do it.... be strong. Don`t. Don`t. Don`t give in to the dark side... Keep. Quiet. Things. Inside.

It will end badly. 


Again...


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Yossa said:


> Oooooooh, there is soooooooooooooooooo much mileage in that. I have quite a few, er, thoughts on that, but none that could be published here and, to be fair, I have too much respect for Mary to go down that route. I´d get banned as well. Hehe.
> 
> Bloody tempting though...
> 
> ...


Mary is lovely!

Jo xxx


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## Solwriter (Jan 10, 2012)

jojo said:


> Mary is lovely!
> 
> Jo xxx


I agree with this.
She can also be very kind and supportive.
But that wont stop me picking her up on things on this forum, and she will do the same to me.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

chica escocesa said:


> Mrypg9 that's exactly what I'm talking about! However, I have enough going on upstairs for you not to get under my (quite thick) skin. There is just no need for the tone you use at times, but that's up to you.


Quite. It's up to me. I don't tolerate fools in life or on forums and I don't expect to be tolerated when I'm being foolish.

The minute this forum becomes a version of Patience Strong all lovey-dovey, allowing nonsense to pass by unchallenged, I'll go back to Enid Blyton.

I find people's 'tones' rather tart or stroppy at times...so what? Are we all such delicate plants?

But Yossa...Anne Widdicombe.....

Now Lizzie Borden, Lucretia Borgia, that woman who poisoned her several husbands in Victorian times.....


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## Tilley (Jun 10, 2012)

mrypg9 said:


> Quite. It's up to me. I don't tolerate fools in life or on forums and I don't expect to be tolerated when I'm being foolish.
> 
> The minute this forum becomes a version of Patience Strong all lovey-dovey, allowing nonsense to pass by unchallenged, I'll go back to Enid Blyton.
> 
> ...


You don't have to tolerate people who you deem to be fools, you can say exactly what you like, you have an army of mods to back you up as I have sadly found out to my costs today. 

Personally I think you are argumentative for the sake of it and I have received enough likes on my few posts to suspect I'm not the only one, not that it will make any difference.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

mrypg9 said:


> Quite. It's up to me. I don't tolerate fools in life or on forums and I don't expect to be tolerated when I'm being foolish.
> 
> The minute this forum becomes a version of Patience Strong all lovey-dovey, allowing nonsense to pass by unchallenged, I'll go back to Enid Blyton.
> 
> ...


I always thought you were a bit like Anne Widdicombe too..................


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Tilley said:


> You don't have to tolerate people who you deem to be fools, you can say exactly what you like, you have an army of mods to back you up as I have sadly found out to my costs today.
> 
> Personally I think you are argumentative for the sake of it and I have received enough likes on my few posts to suspect I'm not the only one, not that it will make any difference.


you can say exactly what you want too - everyone can

but _any_ poster who personally insults another (or breaks any other rule) & is reported for it will be dealt with in exactly the same way

& I mean _*any*_ poster


anyway :focus:

I wonder if Shinyandy has found some contracted work for the OP?


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

any more off topic posts on this thread will be removed - please return to the topic of the thread or don't post again


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