# Living in Chiapas, Yucatan



## chale4189

Hi everybody:

I'm trying to do field research in Chiapas and Yucatan starting in August of 2011. I'm putting together funding proposals now, and I need to draw up a budget. I will be spending most of my time in Palenque and La Trinitaria in Chiapas and Vallodolid and Tizimin in Yucatan, but rates for the regions generally will be just fine. I was wondering if anybody could give me a good sense of the following:

What is the average rental rate: I don't want anything fancy, just a clean one-bedroom.

How much a day will I be likely to spend on food: I'm not the world's greatest cook, so I'll probably be eating out a lot - again, nothing too fancy though.

Thanks.


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## Hound Dog

chale4189 said:


> Hi everybody:
> 
> I'm trying to do field research in Chiapas and Yucatan starting in August of 2011. I'm putting together funding proposals now, and I need to draw up a budget. I will be spending most of my time in Palenque and La Trinitaria in Chiapas and Vallodolid and Tizimin in Yucatan, but rates for the regions generally will be just fine. I was wondering if anybody could give me a good sense of the following:
> 
> What is the average rental rate: I don't want anything fancy, just a clean one-bedroom.
> 
> How much a day will I be likely to spend on food: I'm not the world's greatest cook, so I'll probably be eating out a lot - again, nothing too fancy though.
> 
> Thanks.


We own a home in San Cristóbal de Las Casas, Chiapas so don´t rent although we did rent a fully furnished apartment in the El Cerrillo Barrio ( a fairly expensive part of town, for the equivalent of about $300 USD a month on a month to month basis while we refurbished our home which we purchased in 2006. San Cristóbal is more expensive than any of the places you will be living in either in Chiapas or the Yucatan. If you are willing to rent an apartment or modest cottage or a casita in any of those towns, my guess is you could find a modest, perhaps furnished place for the equivalent of about $300 USD a month or less. Perhaps a lot less. However, the way you will accomplish that is by going to each town upon commencement of your stay, renting a cheap hotel room (of which there will be many available) and walking the streets in neighborhoods you find to your liking looking for signs announcing that a particular property or some part of the property is for rent. In the towns you propose to live in you may also find that some rental properties have no signage so you may need to inquire around your chosen proposed future neighborhood and your search will be greatly facilitated if you have a good command of Spanish as there are very few English speaking people in those towns except perhaps in Palenque and even there you will need a good command of Spanish or a trusted translator working on your behaf and not on behald of the landlord. 

I have traveled to all of these towns and think La Trinitaria and Tizimin should be particularly inexpensive but all four towns should be very affordable. As for eating out in any town you mention, cafes and food stalls favored by locals will be very inexpensive and, if you decide to eat at home you can buy food at very low prices if you shop at local municipal and indigenous markets which should have very good and varied food selections.

My guess of the equivalent of $300USD a month for a rental is probably high but I don´t know your tolerance for rudimentary living quarters. Whatever you do; you will want to look over any properties offered as rentals before you commit to anything as you may find that the attitudes of Mexican landlords may differ greatly from what you are used to so tour each potential rental and any proposed lease whether for the short or long term with a jaundiced eye. Also remember that rental agreements should be in Spanish and you should pay your rent in pesos - I was simply mentioning dollars for the sake of comparison. Do not even think of renting any place soliciting renters over the internet.


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## chale4189

Hound Dog said:


> We own a home in San Cristóbal de Las Casas, Chiapas so don´t rent although we did rent a fully furnished apartment in the El Cerrillo Barrio ( a fairly expensive part of town, for the equivalent of about $300 USD a month on a month to month basis while we refurbished our home which we purchased in 2006. San Cristóbal is more expensive than any of the places you will be living in either in Chiapas or the Yucatan. If you are willing to rent an apartment or modest cottage or a casita in any of those towns, my guess is you could find a modest, perhaps furnished place for the equivalent of about $300 USD a month or less. Perhaps a lot less. However, the way you will accomplish that is by going to each town upon commencement of your stay, renting a cheap hotel room (of which there will be many available) and walking the streets in neighborhoods you find to your liking looking for signs announcing that a particular property or some part of the property is for rent. In the towns you propose to live in you may also find that some rental properties have no signage so you may need to inquire around your chosen proposed future neighborhood and your search will be greatly facilitated if you have a good command of Spanish as there are very few English speaking people in those towns except perhaps in Palenque and even there you will need a good command of Spanish or a trusted translator working on your behaf and not on behald of the landlord.
> 
> I have traveled to all of these towns and think La Trinitaria and Tizimin should be particularly inexpensive but all four towns should be very affordable. As for eating out in any town you mention, cafes and food stalls favored by locals will be very inexpensive and, if you decide to eat at home you can buy food at very low prices if you shop at local municipal and indigenous markets which should have very good and varied food selections.
> 
> My guess of the equivalent of $300USD a month for a rental is probably high but I don´t know your tolerance for rudimentary living quarters. Whatever you do; you will want to look over any properties offered as rentals before you commit to anything as you may find that the attitudes of Mexican landlords may differ greatly from what you are used to so tour each potential rental and any proposed lease whether for the short or long term with a jaundiced eye. Also remember that rental agreements should be in Spanish and you should pay your rent in pesos - I was simply mentioning dollars for the sake of comparison. Do not even think of renting any place soliciting renters over the internet.


Wow - this is fantastic. Thank you very much.


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## tepetapan

Hound dog, What is wrong with renting over the internet? I would love to hear the reasoning behind that statement.


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## circle110

tepetapan said:


> Hound dog, What is wrong with renting over the internet? I would love to hear the reasoning behind that statement.


The rents that you see advertised on the internet tend to be far higher than what you find "on the ground". They seem to be aimed at more wealthy tourist types.

I am amazed when I see the rents advertised on the internet for here in Guanajuato compared to what we, and others we know, are actually paying. I suspect that is what Hound Dog is referring to.


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## Hound Dog

tepetapan said:


> Hound dog, What is wrong with renting over the internet? I would love to hear the reasoning behind that statement.


Tepetan: 

That depends upon what sort of accomodations one is seeking. Locals in Chiapas and in the towns the OP is suggesting he/she may be renting in would never even dream of seeking a rental over the internet even though many of them utilize the internet often. If one is looking, for instance, for a beachfront rental in places such as Cancun or Isla Holbox or Akumal or Huatulco and is willing to pay what is locally known informally as "the ****** tax" or the premium charged to foreigners seeking beachfront or inland commodious quarters, then, by all means shop on the internet and pay ypur premium without regret. 

Keep this in mind:

You will pay a "****** tax" anywhere you rent or buy in Southern Mexico which I am loosely defining as including the Yucatan Peninsula even though most of it is not in southern Mexico but if you walk the streets of any of the towns mentioned and speak Spanish and seek out the kinds of accomodations valued by locals, you will pay far less of a foreigner´s premium than if you are what they consider to be the kind of sucker who rents over the internet sight-unseen or buys/rents properties viewed perfunctorily without any true understanding of the adjoining neighborhood or political situation. 

Apartments and homes are neither rented nor purchased by natives of the Yucatan Peninsula nor the states of Chiapas nor Tabasco nor Oaxaca over the internet. That is an unthinkable proposition among those folks therefore, if you solicit rentals or purchases over the internet you lack knowledge of the market by definition and will, therefore be presumed a sucker with no understanding of prevailing market values in communities in that area and you will be overcharged accordingly. 

In Southern Mexico there is no respect for real estate agents none of whom can command exclusivity and no one with even a modicum of seriousness would ever buy real estate from a real estate agent unless there is an understanding as to everyone´s rights and responsibilities up front. Try that with a southern Mexico real estate agent. 

If you want to buy beachfront property and live like a pasha on soil not degraded by the presence of locals the way the British lived in Kenya and India - be my guest and later suffer in isolation. If, on the other hand, you want to be a part of Southern Mexico and enjoy local people and local cultural traditions, walk the streets looking for your new residence and never presume it is available to you no matter how much money you have. Values there are not the same as values in Palm Beach, thank God.


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## tepetapan

Hound dog, you crack me up. You have to be one of the funniest guys on the forum.
I have 7 rental units in Catemaco with 4 of 7 rented full time by retirees from the USA. I am sure they will be shocked to find they are "suckers" since they average about 2 1/2 years living on our property. I ONLY do internet rentals and discourage ( to say the least) walk in rentals. Walk ins, knock on the door type rentals are fine for some but quality and amenities along with support and service will without a doubt be lacking. We do charge more than the woman across the street but we offer 3 times what she could ever think to offer her clients. The cost is higher on internet rentals because most run it as a business as opposed to knocking on the door " Ma! some one whats to rent the house again" type affair.
And you Hound Dog, preaching to me about knocking on doors, living among the common people. A home in Ajijic, a home in San Cristobal ( is there one in France also??) none of which by your own descriptions over the years leads me to believe your are living among the common people of Mexico. You are such a teller of tall tales. Do as I say, Not as I do.


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## Hound Dog

tepetapan said:


> Hound dog, you crack me up. You have to be one of the funniest guys on the forum.
> .
> And you Hound Dog, preaching to me about knocking on doors, living among the common people. A home in Ajijic, a home in San Cristobal ( is there one in France also??) none of which by your own descriptions over the years leads me to believe your are living among the common people of Mexico. You are such a teller of tall tales. Do as I say, Not as I do.


Ah, Tepetan:

I am pleased that my post amused you and, no we do not own a home in France but stay in fine quarters from Paris to Tours to La Rochelle to Marseilles with relatives when there, which is often in the summer months, so why should we own a home there? We not only stay for free when in any number of places in France but our French relatives cook for us and feed us exquisite meals for free on top of it. I´d like to think we could get similar food in Catemaco at one of those lakefront lonche joints serving fried mystery meats but somehow I doubt it. 

I remind you that the OP is seeking modest accomodations in such towns as La Trinitaria, Palenque, Tizimin and Valladolid while doing field research and not in the tourist trap of Catemaco, a town with which I am familiar as well and which induces memories of lakefront tourist towns all over Mexico appealing to big city dwellers from nearby and smelling of used cooking grease and aging fish with touts waving rags out front and, God, how I miss that place and, even though I drive near there every year on my way from Lake Chapala to Chiapas, I always seem to feel compelled to stop in Orizaba or Fortin de Las Flores instead the closer I get to Catemaco and contemplate a few hours in the outback. 

Now, if the OP were seeking a place to rent in Ajijic, a town with a well-developed infrastrucure of real estate agents organized under near monopolistic conditions who are responsible for the significant incremental cost of buying a home there or in San Cristóbal de Las Casas where the few real estate agents are not to be trusted, I would give the same advice. Go to Ajijic, San Cristóbal, Tizimin, Valladolid, Palenque, La Trinitaria or Catemaco and seek out rentals by walking the streets and I can assure the reader that he/she will do much better than shopping over the internet in any of those places. 

Dawg, folks, has no dawg in this hunt - I was merely trying to give sound advice to one inquiring as to the best way to find inexpensive accomodations in some, shall we say, regional, non-touristic somewhat out-of-the-way places. Outside of giving free, solicited advice, I have no interest in what anyone reading these forums does. Can that b said of all correspondents hereabouts?

A couple of things:

In 2001, when we first moved to Mexico, we spent our time with a local real estate agent looking at homes all over the greater Chapala area before we bought one in the Chapala delegation of Ajijic. We got what we considered a good price but we were moving down from outrageously -priced San Francisco with no real knowledge of the Lake Chapala real estate market so, no doubt, we paid a large premium to live in relatively high-priced Ajijic because of the monopolistic practices of the local real estate firms in those days and the fact that many foreigners were willing to pay premium prices in Ajijic for unseen properties. We figure premiums paid by naive American retirees here then were very significant but in the past ten years we have learned a lot while, at the same time having been protected by increased residential property values here over the years. I am passing on the benefit of my experience to newcomers whether to a town with a large foreign colony such as Ajijic or a backwater such as La Trinitaria. Keep this in mind, those of you moving down here; in places like Ajijic, the residential real estate market is now in the doldrums but because this is a retirement town and sellers don´t feel the imperative to sell, , sellers often continue to ask more than properties are worth at current market so beware and physically come here and look around for the best deals no matter how modest or expensive the property you are seeking. Be prepared to bargain. Believe me, even in a town much in demand such as Ajijic, there is no reason to act precipitously because these properties are often sitting on the market so long their original listings are on parchment.

As for San Cristóbal de Las Casas, the option of buying or renting over the internet will bring you an even worse deal. Serious sellers, that is non-speculators - don´t normally sell over the internet and especially through real estate agents. You must go there and pound the pavement. Now if you are talking of a place to stay for awhile, you can use the internet but I promise you you will pay the "******" premium for any place you find there but that may be OK for a few day´s stay. The place you buy or lease long term must be sought out with the hard work of walking the streets and inquiring - not of real estate agents - but of local citizens. That´s how we found our place in San Cristóbal after discerning those real estate agents were, at times, less than scrupulous and always wanted more for a property since it is local custom there for agents to tack their commissions desired and those of all other participants in the sales process on top of the seller´s or landlord´s "net" asking price.

Since we refurbished our home in San Cristóbal, we have been told by more than one real estate agent and other local residents we trust in that town that we could sell our home easily to locals or foreigners (meaning Americans) but that if we sold to a foreigner we should expect to clear a gross sales price of at least 50% more than if we marketed and sold to what some would call the "******" market. So, as an example, if we were selling to the local community asking $2,000,000 Pesos, we should ask $3,000,000 Pesos of the "gringos" and expect to sell as quickly either way.I doubt we will ever sell and am not implying that those are the prices we would ask but by God, I´ll take that "****** tax" anyday if we ever do sell. AS I had a Beverly Hills lawyer tell me one day as we darnk in a local fancy hotel; " People come here with too much money and we consider it our duty to take it from them. It´s a local pastime."

The one time I´ve been cheated in Mexico in looking for a place to rent was in San Cristóbal when we paid a property owner there advertising on the internet under a vacation rentals web site a $6,000 Pesos deposit for a "vacation rental" for one week and, in the interim, he proceeded to rent the place to another party for a longer period of time, reneged on our agreement and refused to either let us use the unit or to return our $6,000 Pesos. That´s when we found out that we had no real recourse against that guy under Mexican law and would have been totally out of luck except that we knew he also lived in California and was not probably not paying taxes to Mexico for what was essentially a hotel. When we finally threatened to report to the Mexican tax authorities that he was not paying taxes on his substantial income here ( even though we weren´t sure of that one way or the other and were just guessing) we got our $6,000 Pesos back pronto. You are on your own down here and don´t forget it.

I have no doubt Teprtan´s place in Catemaco is a fine place to stay and my comments about other property owners in various parts of Mexico is no reflection on his place and, to be fair, Lake Catemaco is very nice.


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## ViajeroYucateco

chale4189 said:


> Hi everybody:
> 
> I'm trying to do field research in Chiapas and Yucatan starting in August of 2011. I'm putting together funding proposals now, and I need to draw up a budget. I will be spending most of my time in Palenque and La Trinitaria in Chiapas and Vallodolid and Tizimin in Yucatan, but rates for the regions generally will be just fine. I was wondering if anybody could give me a good sense of the following:
> 
> What is the average rental rate: I don't want anything fancy, just a clean one-bedroom.
> 
> How much a day will I be likely to spend on food: I'm not the world's greatest cook, so I'll probably be eating out a lot - again, nothing too fancy though.
> 
> Thanks.


In Valladolid you can eat cheaply at the Bazar Municipal, which is sort of a food court with local restaurants. it is located on the main square opposite the cathedral. Probably a dozen to choose from. some open early and close early, others open late and stay open after midnight. When you want to spend more for Italian, Casa Italia on Candelaria Square has wood oven pizzas made by a real Italian chef. he and his wife are very nice and speak some english too. the nicest place to eat is Taberna de los Frailes in Barrio Sisal opposite ExTemplo San Bernardino.

Hostal de los Frailes is a good cheap option for a hostel while you are finding an apartment.


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## TundraGreen

I want to thank Tepetapan and Hound Dog for providing the most entertaining reading I have had all day, maybe all week. 

Memo


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## conklinwh

Actually I think both sides are right. I would not do a long term rental unseen on the internet, especially since my wife is a photoshop wizard and neighborhoods change quickly, but on the other hand, I do want to have a place to stay when I get there. I'm no longer a backpacker that shows up and searches for hostels. Also, there is a big drop in a lot of rentals between a couple days and a week or month. I therefore tend to split the difference and rent for a week or so in advance and then look around. This works well in larger cities but not everywhere. In fact, going back to initial post, she might need rent in advance in Palenque and then look at other places after arrival.


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## dongringo

The Mexican real estate industry is just coming out of the stone age. Major players such as ReMax and Century21 are now in the market, plus a professional association, called AMPI, is now trying to elevate the standards of the industry. Real Estate sales in Veracruz (I'm not familiar with others) have a well deserved reputation for what seems like deception. As houndog points out, they are obligated by buyers to tack on their commission because buyers are hesitant and mostly ignorant about contractual commissioned sales. So of course, I have seen properties sell for twice as much than what the seller asked for, and also for half as much, because sellers generally overprice themselves.

Standard rental contracts are for six months, and good luck to an agent trying to get a decent commission out of that. 

The concept of full disclosure is Greek in Mexican Spanish. Titles in way too many cases have defects, and escrow and title insurance are more Greek term. Even Notarios are notoriously corrupt, and smart sellers will at most times try to circumvent an agent to find the owner. Enforcement of a listing contract is almost impossible and agents are caught in the middle.

Anyone catering to foreign tourists or buyers would be incompetent not to use the internet. And yes, quoted prices are easily twice what a Mexican would be prepared to pay. So what!

Nevertheless, the rubber bands that hold the whole process together, have turned the Veracruz Coast from Boca del Rio to Anton Lizardo into one of the hottest real estate markets in Mexico, for Mexicans.

In a small town like downtown Catemaco, most properties are not advertised, and that includes rentals. You can walk as much as you want, but never see most of what's available. And as soon as you ask someone, you will have a tout on your tail.

I got lucky and married my tout. And if houndog ever gets tired of "cooking grease and aging fish", next time he returns from France, I'll direct him to some superb local delicacies like Mondongo en Acuyo (tripe stewed in aromatic leaves) preceded by Sopa Vaquera (fresh cheese and fried tomatoes served in a consome and flavored with wormseed) and a dessert of Coyoles en Dulce (palm fruits in heavy sugarcane syrup colored with blue crocus). Naturally I'll expect a commission.


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## Hound Dog

dongringo said:


> The Mexican real estate industry is just coming out of the stone age. Major players such as ReMax and Century21 are now in the market, plus a professional association, called AMPI, is now trying to elevate the standards of the industry. Real Estate sales in Veracruz (I'm not familiar with others) have a well deserved reputation for what seems like deception. As houndog points out, they are obligated by buyers to tack on their commission because buyers are hesitant and mostly ignorant about contractual commissioned sales. So of course, I have seen properties sell for twice as much than what the seller asked for, and also for half as much, because sellers generally overprice themselves.
> 
> Standard rental contracts are for six months, and good luck to an agent trying to get a decent commission out of that.
> 
> The concept of full disclosure is Greek in Mexican Spanish. Titles in way too many cases have defects, and escrow and title insurance are more Greek term. Even Notarios are notoriously corrupt, and smart sellers will at most times try to circumvent an agent to find the owner. Enforcement of a listing contract is almost impossible and agents are caught in the middle.
> 
> Anyone catering to foreign tourists or buyers would be incompetent not to use the internet. And yes, quoted prices are easily twice what a Mexican would be prepared to pay. So what!
> 
> Nevertheless, the rubber bands that hold the whole process together, have turned the Veracruz Coast from Boca del Rio to Anton Lizardo into one of the hottest real estate markets in Mexico, for Mexicans.
> 
> In a small town like downtown Catemaco, most properties are not advertised, and that includes rentals. You can walk as much as you want, but never see most of what's available. And as soon as you ask someone, you will have a tout on your tail.
> 
> I got lucky and married my tout. And if houndog ever gets tired of "cooking grease and aging fish", next time he returns from France, I'll direct him to some superb local delicacies like Mondongo en Acuyo (tripe stewed in aromatic leaves) preceded by Sopa Vaquera (fresh cheese and fried tomatoes served in a consome and flavored with wormseed) and a dessert of Coyoles en Dulce (palm fruits in heavy sugarcane syrup colored with blue crocus). Naturally I'll expect a commission.


dongringo:

At last, a response worthy of note. An amusing rejoinder. Perhaps on our next journey to Chiapas from the infamous, "******" infested Lake Chapala, we´ll stop by for lunch in Catemaco (an easily accomplished detour from the Tinaja-Acayucan Autopista as I am sure you are aware), for a lunch of mondongo en acuyo, sopa vaquera and coyoles en dulces and your commission will be in the forms of cold cerveza and Dawg´s company. In all seriousness, we´d love to try these local culinary treats as opposed to the dreary fried grease, stale fish tourist fare we have experienced in the past. We will be leaving for Chiapas sometime in mid-January so, if you are truly interested, let us know by PM.

By the way; the drive from Lake Chapala to San Cristóbal de Las Casas takes two days if one utilizes the Chapala-Arco Norte-Puebla-Minatitlan-Tuxtla Gutierrez route and we usually spend the first night in Orizaba and the drive from Orizaba non-stop to San Cristóbal takes about seven hours. A detour through the Tuxtlas and Catemaco with a lunch of local treats as mentioned above, is a reasonable diversion. If you are serious, let us know by PM.


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## sunnyvmx

Thankfully my online search for the ideal retirement location was accomplished at my kitchen table. The website for Tepetapan was accurate in pictures and information. All my questions were answered promptly and the quote for villa and amenities was extremely fair and not inflated. No contract necessary. Property well maintained and necessary repairs to my casita are made promptly. From the moment I arrived two years ago I have not had one moments disappointment with the park or the town and I saw it all on the internet. In my mind there's no question that areas most frequented by visiting or residing "gringos" are changed and not necessarily for the better. Thereafter there is an underlying mistrust. I have not experienced ****** pricing here and do not expect to if it stays Mexican as it is now. I eat out frequently which I can well afford on my Social Security and enjoy fine meals which I hope the Dawg will also be introduced to here in town or in the surrounding area. If Dongringo is unavailable, please come by Tepetapan Villas and RV park. I'm in casita #3 and I will make you welcome.


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## Bast

This thread has been wonderfully informative. I will cease and desist trying to find listings on the internet this very moment. lol.


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