# French degree assessment



## shampoo (Jul 22, 2011)

Hello there,

I am from Tunisia and I hold a bachelor degree in ICT. I have applied for the assessment with ACS but I got a negative one; it seems that they didn't recognize my bachelor degree. 

Actually as French might know, a bachelor degree in French is "Diplôme nationale d'ingénieurs" and my translator translated it as "National degree in engineering in ..." 

Could that be the reason why ACS wasn't able to figure out that it was a bachelor degree? 

It would be helpful if you, specially French expats, share your experience so I could understand. Should I change the translation in the appropriate way? 

Please help... I'm left with few weeks to appeal for their decision. 

Thanks !


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## _Sarah_ (Jun 27, 2011)

Hi,

How many years was your Diplôme nationale d'ingénieurs. Normally a Bachelor degree lasts 3 years, and isn't a Bachelor degree "une licence"  ?

I'm afraid "national degree" does not exist, I don't think it's the correct traslation of "Diplôme nationale d'ingénieurs" - I think Diplôme nationale d'ingénieurs is *5 years*?? So it's a *Masters Degree*

If you put on your ACS "national degree" - they are not going to recognise that as a Bachelor degree.

In Australia these are the higher education awards:
Doctorate degree
Master's degree
Graduate Diploma
Graduate Certificate
Bachelor Degree
Associate Degree, Advanced Diploma
Diploma



shampoo said:


> Hello there,
> 
> I am from Tunisia and I hold a bachelor degree in ICT. I have applied for the assessment with ACS but I got a negative one; it seems that they didn't recognize my bachelor degree.
> 
> ...


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## shampoo (Jul 22, 2011)

Hi Sarah, thank you for your reply. 

Actually, we study 2 years to get a technician degree prior to be able to go for a bachelor degree that lasts 3 years. So at the end the whole cycle lasts 5 years and you come out with the national degree which is a bachelor degree. 

But then again, you can go for a master degree that lasts 2 years and finally a phd that might last up to 3 years, depends on your specialty.. 

It's quiet longer than the French system but it's meant to be the same.. 

So should I just ask the translator to rename my national degree by bachelor degree and reapply instead of asking for a reassessment with the new title? That might be bit suspicous, no? 

Thank you for your time!!


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## shampoo (Jul 22, 2011)

I just found this on a French website.. according to this I should be either Graduate diploma or Master degree.. because I hold Bac +5.... Anyone could help? 

*France* *AUSTRALIE*​- Baccalauréat - "Year 12"​-Bac + 1 - Certificates 4-5, Diplioma​- BTS, DUT, DEUG (Bac + 2) - Diploma, Advanced Diploma, associate degree,TAFE​
- Licence (Bac + 3) - Bachelor​ 

- Maîtrise, Grandes écoles, -Graduate Diploma​Diplôme d'ingénieur, Institut d'Etude Politique, 
Ecole Normale Supérieure
(Bac + 4 / Bac + 5) 

- Grandes écoles, 
Diplôme d'ingénieur, Institut d'Etude Politique, - Master Degree​Ecole Normale Supérieure
(Bac + 4 / Bac + 5)

- Maîtrise, DEA, DESS, Master, MBA, - Doctorate, PHD​Doctorat 

Thanks !


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## shampoo (Jul 22, 2011)

Anyone to help? :focus:


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## _Sarah_ (Jun 27, 2011)

I'm would say you have a Graduate Diploma or even a Master's degree if you studied in a Ecole Normale Supérieure. Show the translator the French and Australian system equivalent that you posted, and show them that your degree is the equivalent of a Master's in Australia. C'est beaucoup plus qu'une licence, j'en suis sure.


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## Guest (Jul 22, 2011)

You cant just tell your translator to say it says something that it does not. They have to translate exactly what it says! 

Your best bet would be to get hold of transcripts, modules etc and show that your qualification is the equivalent of what they need.


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## shampoo (Jul 22, 2011)

_shel said:


> You cant just tell your translator to say it says something that it does not. They have to translate exactly what it says!
> 
> Your best bet would be to get hold of transcripts, modules etc and show that your qualification is the equivalent of what they need.


Hi _shel,

Sadly that was how I got a negative assessment from ACS.. though last year I have received 3 Master offers from different uni including RMIT. And if am not wrong, you don't get a Master offer unless you hold at least a bachelor degree. 

In my ACS application, I even included the complete booklet explaining my courses and signed by my university as well as a document explaining the Tunisian/French system and it mentioned how it leads to my engineering degree (bachelor degree)... 

I think it's just a matter of names.. sometimes you don't use the exact word to translate things.. and that might be my mistake.. 

I know it sounds like cheating but I don't know what else am I supposed to do? Actually am trying to find out other options by posting here... at least understand how others got their French degrees recognized... if there are any institutions that might help... 

Tunisians degrees are recognized in all Europe, Uk, US, Canada, Japan and so on.. unfortunately we don't have many expats in Australia.. that might be also not helping... 

Thank you for your reply.


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## Guest (Jul 22, 2011)

Sorry but to play devils advocate here. DIAC, ACS and other assessing bodies do actually have their own translators. But want you to translate them at your cost to save them the time & effort, but it's my belief it is also to test the integrity of applicants too. 

I get what you are saying about what the course is you say you studied. BUT if you falsify a translation to say something it does not then you will have breached a dozen rules, regs & laws. If used for the visa application you could find yourself rejected for providing false documents after paying a small fortune for the application which could then jeopardize future applications. 

I do hope you find someone who has applied in similar circumstances who can help. Or maybe consult an agent?


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## shampoo (Jul 22, 2011)

_shel said:


> Sorry but to play devils advocate here. DIAC, ACS and other assessing bodies do actually have their own translators. But want you to translate them at your cost to save them the time & effort, but it's my belief it is also to test the integrity of applicants too.
> 
> I get what you are saying about what the course is you say you studied. BUT if you falsify a translation to say something it does not then you will have breached a dozen rules, regs & laws. If used for the visa application you could find yourself rejected for providing false documents after paying a small fortune for the application which could then jeopardize future applications.
> 
> I do hope you find someone who has applied in similar circumstances who can help. Or maybe consult an agent?




I agree with most of what you're saying.. and as I already mentioned, that's exactly why am posting here.. I really don't want to go through any fraud.. 
I'm not sure if an agent would help.. and frankly I don't think he'll be of any help apart from ripping me off... I hope other people would post their own experience so I get a glance of hope... without the recognition of my degree there is no chance that I'll be moving to Australia.

It just drives me crazy that after these long studies I get classified in Cat B.. it's so diminishing of your capabilities.. and I cannot think of other documents I can supply to make them change their decision...

I have 7+ years of experience but only 2 in the nominated occupation so it won't do it for a Cat B.... I am qualified and I am employed in a well know multinational IT company.. and I've been working abroad several times.. sometimes life is so unfair... but I guess immigration is always a rough procedure..

Thank you for your advise, I appreciate.


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## Guest (Jul 22, 2011)

Have you posted on any forums? There are a fair few about where three has to be someone who is/has been in a similar position. 

Have you tried applying for jobs direct to get sponsorship? Skipping the skills assessment and all?


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## shampoo (Jul 22, 2011)

Actually I could use my company for a relocation but for the moment there are no open position for my profession.. so I will have to wait till an unknow date.. and I have an urgent need to go there.. to be with the one I love.. we cannot use other visa types coz it's more complicate... 

I tried to look for jobs but sadly almost all of them are open only for people helding either Australian citizenship or a permanent visa.. not my case.. 

Plus being from Tunisia I cannot use the working holidays visa.. 

I got the negative assessment about 2 weeks ago and I was in big shock since I didn't expect such a result.. so am just starting to go through forums.. hope to find something helpful..


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## Guest (Jul 22, 2011)

How is it complicated? Tell & we might be able to help. 

As you know there are spouse visas etc 

Where you see that on jobs, email them and ask if they are willing to sponsor sending your CV. They might just be if your qualifications and experience are what they are looking for.


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## shampoo (Jul 22, 2011)

_shel said:


> How is it complicated? Tell & we might be able to help.
> 
> As you know there are spouse visas etc
> 
> Where you see that on jobs, email them and ask if they are willing to sponsor sending your CV. They might just be if your qualifications and experience are what they are looking for.


Well.. we are not planning to get married to avoid certain religious problems.. so we are only left with de facto visa option.. but then I dont think we can apply...
we met overseas back in 2008, lived together for 4 months and since then we've been keeping the relation going. It's gonna be soon 3 years... we managed to meet many times.. I've travelled to Oz twice, he travelled to Tunisia twice and we once met in Paris.. everytime we met, we've spent around 2 or 3 weeks togehter..
otherwise Internet/phone was keeping us going.. He was planning to move to Europe so we didn't think of applying for a skilled visa before.. but he got a scholarship for a phd this year and decided to go for it.. 

It's quiet complicated situation.. and I don't know if we qualify for a de facto visa..


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## shampoo (Jul 22, 2011)

Forgot to mention my degree was translated as : "National engineering degree in applied science and technology"

Any help ?


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## _Sarah_ (Jun 27, 2011)

You may want to keep looking into the de facto visa. If you go to Australian on a tourist visa, and your partner lives in Victoria, New South Wales or ACT, then you can register the relationship at Births, Deaths and Marriages - which means that you don't have to live together for the whole 12 months prior to lodging an application. You should come to Australia and live with your partner for a little while before applying. Read pages 40 and 41 of the partner booklet:
http://www.immi.gov.au/allforms/booklets/1127.pdf



shampoo said:


> Well.. we are not planning to get married to avoid certain religious problems.. so we are only left with de facto visa option.. but then I dont think we can apply...
> we met overseas back in 2008, lived together for 4 months and since then we've been keeping the relation going. It's gonna be soon 3 years... we managed to meet many times.. I've travelled to Oz twice, he travelled to Tunisia twice and we once met in Paris.. everytime we met, we've spent around 2 or 3 weeks togehter..
> otherwise Internet/phone was keeping us going.. He was planning to move to Europe so we didn't think of applying for a skilled visa before.. but he got a scholarship for a phd this year and decided to go for it..
> 
> It's quiet complicated situation.. and I don't know if we qualify for a de facto visa..


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## shampoo (Jul 22, 2011)

Thank you _Sarah_ ! I never heard about this... sad to only find out about it now.. I could have done it back in 2010 when I first went to Melbourne.. It could work fine I guess with this option...

I also found in a French forum people talking about the Competency Demonstration Report (CDR) for non-recognized qualifications... but did anyone used it for IT? I probably could apply for the Engineering Technologist... sounds like I could fit there... 

Anyone could share his experience? 

Thanks !


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## _Sarah_ (Jun 27, 2011)

Sorry shampoo I don't know anything about the CDR, but just to let you know you could also think about applying for the parter visa offshore (in Tunisia).



shampoo said:


> Thank you _Sarah_ ! I never heard about this... sad to only find out about it now.. I could have done it back in 2010 when I first went to Melbourne.. It could work fine I guess with this option...
> 
> I also found in a French forum people talking about the Competency Demonstration Report (CDR) for non-recognized qualifications... but did anyone used it for IT? I probably could apply for the Engineering Technologist... sounds like I could fit there...
> 
> ...


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## shampoo (Jul 22, 2011)

That's what I was talking about :

"Our clients require all staff to be able to obtain a Federal Government Security clearance thus only Australian Citizens need apply."

"Only people with Australia/NZ non-restricted visa should apply"

"Australian Citizenship or qualify for an Australian Federal security clearance."

All the job positions where I fit show this line at the end of the post... It's quiet impossible to find one without it... :'(


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## cheetopuff (Aug 6, 2018)

Shampoo I’ve no idea if you’ll get this notification from this very old post. But I’d really appreciate if you, or anyone else reading, could provide some more information as far as getting their Tunisian engineering degrees recognized in Australia through EA?


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