# Moving to Algarve in Oct 2012



## Soulvampire

Hi we are planning to move to Portugl in October this year and would appreciate any advice or help we can get! We bought some land with a ruin on it a couple of years ago and are planning to relocate so we can eventually build something on it instead of the ruin. There we be myself, my partner (Steve) and my daughter Tia(who is 12) and a rather large dog. (Have already got the dog fully passported) The problems I have are as follows

Although we have a campervan to travel over in and will cope with it as a home for starters. Would anyone suggest long term rentals somewhere near Messines. I have a craving for a proper loo and a proper shower rather than the one in the camper lol.

As my daughter is 12 can anyone suggest a good school in the area. She is not fluent in Portuguese and only knows the very basics. So it would need to be english speaking. Also what would we need to do to enrol her in a school.

Are the internet dongles easy to get hold of and can someone recommend where?

And lastly as we are not married would that be a problem with obtaining residency?

I would be very greatful to any advice given as every website I read seems to give a different opinion.

Thanks

Alison


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## travelling-man

I can't help you with much advice except to say that dongles seem to be readily available over here and FWIW, my better half and I both have UK passports not married and we didn't have any problems getting residencias and fiscals......


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## robc

Soulvampire said:


> ........We bought some land with a ruin on it a couple of years ago and are planning to relocate so we can eventually build something on it instead of the ruin. ................................
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Alison


Hi Alison and welcome to this forum.
I wish you well in your plans and I am sure that there are many folks who will come along and offer advice and assistance.

I am a little intrigued by your land, my reasons being that when we were looking for a parcel of land to build on, (the house is now complete btw) we were cautioned against the challenges that may or may not be presented by a ruin on a piece of land.

Have you checked this out, if not, I would think that may be another thing to start researching now.

Good Luck

HTH

Rob


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## somanyhands

Hi and welcome

I can't offer any advice about the immediate area but I can say this, you won't find an English-speaking Portuguese (state) school. The only English-speaking schools you will find are the private and International ones.
I'm not sure what private schools might be in the area but I don't think there's an international one very closeby (Porches/Lagoa might be your nearest)

If you have several thousands of pounds a year to spend on schooling, of course, this won't be a problem.

At 12, I'd say she's about the oldest I'd want to be putting a child into the Portuguese system. My son was just coming up to his 11th birthday when he started and he's coping well now, thanks to an additional year of private, one-to-one tuition at home, for an hour a week. Many of the Portuguese Kids at that age tend to speak fairly good English so the social aspect isn't so bad but don't expect much teacher/pupil interaction in English. 

With good support outside of school (extra private lessons, for example) and parents learning alongside (essential or you'll be no good with homework help!), I'd say it could be done from age 12 but it'd be hard work on all sides.

English options are really only international schools - at a price!


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## Soulvampire

*hi*

Yes we have checked all the details and what we will need for planning etc. We can actually rebuild what is already there as it is registered as a dwelling on the deeds. As our ruin in situated within 7 acres of land, which we also own, you can imagine why we want to build here and why we bought it in the 1st place. Our nearest neighbour is over 5 km away. Though I might be asking you about advice during our build as we have no experience at all with building let alone in Portugal.

Alison


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## robc

Soulvampire said:


> Yes we have checked all the details and what we will need for planning etc. We can actually rebuild what is already there as it is registered as a dwelling on the deeds. As our ruin in situated within 7 acres of land, which we also own, you can imagine why we want to build here and why we bought it in the 1st place. Our nearest neighbour is over 5 km away. Though I might be asking you about advice during our build as we have no experience at all with building let alone in Portugal.
> 
> Alison


Hi Alison

I fully understand, neighbours can, though not always, be a bit of a ******** whatever.

Happy to help on the Building front if I can. You know where I am.

Rob


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## canoeman

Suggest you contact your local Camara reference schools, which might dictate where your looking for rental property.

This site is quite useful for an overview of education and contacts STRUCTURE OF EDUCATION SYSTEM IN PORTUGAL and this is main Government site,Ministry for Education and Science :: Ministries :: Governo de Portugal but you need to get down to Regional and then local level, suggest you befriend somanyhands personal experience counts for a lot especially in getting the required and correct paperwork from UK school/s that you'll need.
October you'll miss intake, sorry but no idea what effect that might have.

First thing to realize with building, if it's a ruin you'll need plans, approval and a licensed builder to do the work. Oh and the money


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## Soulvampire

Many thanks for all your help so far. Ive looked into International schooling and although this looks the best option by farm we are not millionaires lol and there is no way we can afford £10K a year plus. Is there no sort of intermediary school that does some lessons in english and some in portuguese? Although she can get by in Portuguese its really very basic though she does speak and understand it better than us! We are now debating either putting it off which we really dont want to do or maybe home schooling her for the last few years.

Ali


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## canoeman

Portuguese education is good, depends on child but younger they are quicker they adapt and integrate, the longer you put it off the more difficult you make it for her.


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## Soulvampire

She will be 13 when we move over and that would put her in year 9. I am just thinking that a state school would be much to difficult for her, you know how teenagers can be at the best of times, withouth the language barrier. But we have planned a trip over beforehand so we can go around all the local schools and see what we think. I have already contacted many of them and am awaiting replies about how much help she would get. Am sure within 6 months she will be pretty fluent anyway. Have also just sorted her out some lessons before we arrive too so hopefully that will help too.


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## somanyhands

> Is there no sort of intermediary school that does some lessons in english and some in portuguese?


No. Not unless you happen to find a private, fee-paying one.
Don't under-estimate how long it will take her to learn this way either.
The more English she is exposed to at school, the longer it will take her to become fluent/proficient in Portuguese.
For her to be fluent in 6 months, she will need to be in a 100% Portuguese environment at school. At 13, that's a huge ask.
But do check out all the local area schools. They will (well, they should!) offer some support in the form of an extra lesson or two in "Portuguese as a second language" (Lingua Nao Materna) but it's a long haul and what schools offer can range from one 45 minute lesson a week (as my 12yo had last school year) to 3 x 90 minute lessons a week (which he has this year but it won't be happening next year due to that format not working with mixed-level students in the class)

Support and private lessons at home will be essential at that age, I think.


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## jeremy mark

Soulvampire said:


> Hi we are planning to move to Portugl in October this year and would appreciate any advice or help we can get! We bought some land with a ruin on it a couple of years ago and are planning to relocate so we can eventually build something on it instead of the ruin. There we be myself, my partner (Steve) and my daughter Tia(who is 12) and a rather large dog. (Have already got the dog fully passported) The problems I have are as follows
> 
> Although we have a campervan to travel over in and will cope with it as a home for starters. Would anyone suggest long term rentals somewhere near Messines. I have a craving for a proper loo and a proper shower rather than the one in the camper lol.
> 
> As my daughter is 12 can anyone suggest a good school in the area. She is not fluent in Portuguese and only knows the very basics. So it would need to be english speaking. Also what would we need to do to enrol her in a school.
> 
> Are the internet dongles easy to get hold of and can someone recommend where?
> 
> And lastly as we are not married would that be a problem with obtaining residency?
> 
> I would be very greatful to any advice given as every website I read seems to give a different opinion.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Alison


Hi Alison
i think with abit of tuition she will get on fine in the portuguese school system,all my children have done from various ages and she maybe kept done a year but that really does not matter.We tried the private school at lagoa what a waste of time and money...you will be giving her a gifrt with a second language..once she makes friends it will come easily..joining clubs or something can help as well.
You will need letter from school in england ,they like it stamped from school headmaster,they love stamps..obviously coming in october you miss september start,but nothing impossible.
It is such a great thing for you all, we live near lagos so i dont know any schools over in messines..
good luch
Edwina..
my girls are 12


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## Soulvampire

*Thanks*

Thanks to everyone for all you help. We will be visiting schools in our local area within the next month or so. I can seem to find a list or anything online so we are just going to go over and do it the old fashioned way. Are school term times roughly the same as in the UK? Dont want to be booking flights in a school holidys and find they are all closed!


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## jeremy mark

Soulvampire said:


> Thanks to everyone for all you help. We will be visiting schools in our local area within the next month or so. I can seem to find a list or anything online so we are just going to go over and do it the old fashioned way. Are school term times roughly the same as in the UK? Dont want to be booking flights in a school holidys and find they are all closed!


Hi ,schools run now untill june 19th when they close for summer.We do not have half term in may,the odd days holiday .Private schools run as uk schools.Being 12 she will be going into secondary school,have you tried putting in escolas secondario em messines and sites will come up for all schools,very easy..get numbers etc then..google.pt
ok Edwina


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## jeremy mark

jeremy mark said:


> Hi ,schools run now untill june 19th when they close for summer.We do not have half term in may,the odd days holiday .Private schools run as uk schools.Being 12 she will be going into secondary school,have you tried putting in escolas secondario em messines and sites will come up for all schools,very easy..get numbers etc then..google.pt
> ok Edwina


p.s. if you want to come and have coffee and chat,we have cafe in espiche,dont think thats to far,your daughter can meet my girls and have a chat,if that helps.Edwina


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## somanyhands

jeremy mark said:


> Hi ,schools run now untill june 19th when they close for summer.We do not have half term in may,the odd days holiday .Private schools run as uk schools.Being 12 she will be going into secondary school,have you tried putting in escolas secondario em messines and sites will come up for all schools,very easy..get numbers etc then..google.pt
> ok Edwina


Just to clarify, it's not called Ensino Secundário until years 10, 11 and 12 in Portugal! It's still Ensino Basico up to and including yr 9 (approx 15 yrs old)
You'd need to be googling Ensino Basico 2/3 (or EB 2/3) instead.
A quick google gave this info
Google search for EB2,3 Messines

She'll be in year 8, perhaps (what year will she have just done in UK?) which would put her in the 3rd cycle (yrs 7, 8 and 9)


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## Soulvampire

Thanks again, yes I would love to meet up. I have a million and 1 questions as you can imagine. Am really excited and looking forward to our adventure, just worried about my daughter. As you have girls the same age talking to them might help her. I googled Espiche and its just the other side of Lagos so not too far at all and I love Lagos. Am currently looking into language lessons over here because, if nothing else, we will need to know the basics at least.


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## jeremy mark

Soulvampire said:


> Thanks again, yes I would love to meet up. I have a million and 1 questions as you can imagine. Am really excited and looking forward to our adventure, just worried about my daughter. As you have girls the same age talking to them might help her. I googled Espiche and its just the other side of Lagos so not too far at all and I love Lagos. Am currently looking into language lessons over here because, if nothing else, we will need to know the basics at least.


ok
let me know when you over then..
as i say dont worry,children adapt so well,
Edwina


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## canoeman

Not Brazilian Portuguese lessons different enough to complicate life.


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## Sonho

Soulvampire said:


> Many thanks for all your help so far. Ive looked into International schooling and although this looks the best option by farm we are not millionaires lol and there is no way we can afford £10K a year plus. Is there no sort of intermediary school that does some lessons in english and some in portuguese? Although she can get by in Portuguese its really very basic though she does speak and understand it better than us! We are now debating either putting it off which we really dont want to do or maybe home schooling her for the last few years.
> 
> Ali


Hey Ali,
Vale Verde runs at about EUR5500/year so no where near the more normal international school fees. Their primary program is half English and half Portuguese and the secondary program is all English. It is in Luz, but many children from the CVO area attend there.
good luck.


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## Soulvampire

*wow*



Sonho said:


> Hey Ali,
> Vale Verde runs at about EUR5500/year so no where near the more normal international school fees. Their primary program is half English and half Portuguese and the secondary program is all English. It is in Luz, but many children from the CVO area attend there.
> good luck.


Thanks for that I will look into it. Much more in our price range. As we will be based in the hills to the north of Messines its a bit of a trek but well worth it if she can complete her education as she will only have 2 years left.


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## Emma..xo

You seem to be pretty far away from the international schools. However, most of them are pretty good... Just don't expect them to be brilliant for what you pay.

You have a choice of four international schools in the Algarve: International School Sao Lourenco (where I went); The International School of the Algarve (in the Porches area); Vale Verde International School (Tavira area) and Vilamoura International. My parents were not well off at all, but they managed to put me through 4 years of international schooling as we believed that the English curriculum is the best in Europe and more widely recognised.

In regards to a Portuguese school, at 13 years of age, she could do brilliantly or crash and burn (for want of a better phrase). I know a few people who transferred to the Portuguese system after one year of being in an international school to learn Portuguese before going. From my understanding, non-fluent students are put back a year. So your daughter would be going back into year 8 when she arrives. 

I think a good option would be the international school for a year or six months and then see how she feels with the language as the move to Portugal can be enough without being flung into a strange environment where she could be alienated. 

Dongles are extremely easy to get hold of from mobile phone shops (Vodafone, TMN, Optimus, etc) or from electronic shops (Worten, etc).

And you should have no problem obtaining residency, even though you aren't married. The only problem I encountered was the fact that my parents were divorced and I moved there with my dad and my step-mum. The residency office wanted proof that my mum had given me permission to move.

Good luck! And let me know if there's anything else I can help you with!


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## Emma..xo

Apologies, after looking again, I have no idea as to where Vale Verde school is... Google maps says Tavira, but other sources say Luz!


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## Soulvampire

Many thanks for the input. Its always great to hear from someone who has been to the schools and what they thought of it. I have looked up all of those schools and you are right there is none near the land we have bought. But as none of them are that far, really, then we will be looking at them all. We are currently trying to arrange a week over to take Tia around all the schools and to see what she thinks. We are also all taking portuguese lessons now too as this would help a lot.


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## saravasco

Hi Alison,

I live in Messines and have a son of 13 who goes to Messines school. He's in year 7 as they only start school when they are 6 here. He was born in Portugal so language has never been a problem for him but we have seen several foreign children start school with no knowledge of Portuguese & they seem to get plenty of support from both the teachers and other pupils. Remember by the age of 12 the kids have been learning English for several years so they are pretty knowledgeable and many of them seem to want to practice their English. There are also several good teachers in the area who give private lessons and the school run Portuguese classes for adults 2 nights a week. I definitely think in at the deep end is the best way to learn but every child is different.
I also know several families who have put their children through the international schools with great success but although the standard of education is good many children don't integrate in the community the same way and obviously if your planning to live here permanently that will be important for you. Several families we know who have used international schools have had to move back to the UK to put their children through further education because their Portuguese isn't good enough for them to continue in the Portuguese system.
If you have any questions or I can help in any way just let me know...I have lived in Messines for many years so I know the area quite well. I'll be happy to meet up with you when you are over as well.
Good luck
Sara


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## Patchwork

As a teacher in England I was often faced with non-English speaking pupils, funnily enough quite a lot of Portuguese ones, and they integrated very well. It takes about 6 months and a lot of good will for them to become fluent....except in swear words which is the first thing other pupils seem to teach them! It is likely that your daughter will need to repeat a year at school in order to keep up with the others but that will depend on her abilities and your efforts at helping her with the language. Just make sure that she keeps up her English....I know a number of expat children who have come back to UK having spent their teenage years abroad and now struggle with fluent written English.


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## Maoiliosa

*Renting issue*



Soulvampire said:


> Hi we are planning to move to Portugl in October this year and would appreciate any advice or help we can get! We bought some land with a ruin on it a couple of years ago and are planning to relocate so we can eventually build something on it instead of the ruin. There we be myself, my partner (Steve) and my daughter Tia(who is 12) and a rather large dog. (Have already got the dog fully passported) The problems I have are as follows
> 
> Although we have a campervan to travel over in and will cope with it as a home for starters. Would anyone suggest long term rentals somewhere near Messines. I have a craving for a proper loo and a proper shower rather than the one in the camper lol.
> 
> As my daughter is 12 can anyone suggest a good school in the area. She is not fluent in Portuguese and only knows the very basics. So it would need to be english speaking. Also what would we need to do to enrol her in a school.
> 
> Are the internet dongles easy to get hold of and can someone recommend where?
> 
> And lastly as we are not married would that be a problem with obtaining residency?
> 
> I would be very greatful to any advice given as every website I read seems to give a different opinion.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Alison


On the renting issue, you can get a two bedroomed apartment for less than 450 euros a month. I speak about Lagos, which wouLd be considered more expensive than Messines. Properties which were kept exclusively for tourist rentals, are now being rented for year long rent, at greatly reduced price....I suggest you contact estate agents, or spend a day or two walking around Messines, where developers/owners will have for rent/alugar signs on the buildings or apartments. Good luck Maoiliosa


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