# Dual nationality for brits in spain after 10 years



## pedro6 (Aug 4, 2016)

Don't know if I am allowed to post this but support for this petition is needed to change the law to allow Brits in Spain with over 10 years residence dual nationality.
If you agree please go to https://www.change.org/p/dual-natio...utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=copylink
I cannot find any mention elsewhere on the Expats site so I hope I am not duplicating or rule breaking!!


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

pedro6 said:


> Don't know if I am allowed to post this but support for this petition is needed to change the law to allow Brits in Spain with over 10 years residence dual nationality.
> If you agree please go to https://www.change.org/p/dual-natio...utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=copylink
> I cannot find any mention elsewhere on the Expats site so I hope I am not duplicating or rule breaking!!


Thank you, I have signed it. May not do any good but if you don't ask you don't get! Being allowed dual nationality would be the ideal solution.


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## 95995 (May 16, 2010)

Lynn R said:


> Thank you, I have signed it. May not do any good but if you don't ask you don't get! Being allowed dual nationality would be the ideal solution.


Spain actually doesn't, and can't, take away your British nationality - it simply doesn't recognise it once you take Spanish nationality.


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

pedro6 said:


> Don't know if I am allowed to post this but support for this petition is needed to change the law to allow Brits in Spain with over 10 years residence dual nationality.
> If you agree please go to https://www.change.org/p/dual-natio...utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=copylink
> I cannot find any mention elsewhere on the Expats site so I hope I am not duplicating or rule breaking!!


I truly don't understand the issue. If I apply for Spanish nationality, and subsequently get it, then I will have dual nationality. You can NOT lose British Nationality - just like Americans can't lose theirs.

So why the petition?


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

EverHopeful said:


> Spain actually doesn't, and can't, take away your British nationality - it simply doesn't recognise it once you take Spanish nationality.


Therefore, if you take Spanish nationality and have a clause in your will that you wish to bequeath your assets according to the laws of your own country (the UK in this case) rather than Spanish succession laws which proscribe how you must divide your estate, then presumably that clause would no longer be recognised as so far as Spain is concerned you would be Spanish. That could be important to some people (including me).


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## 95995 (May 16, 2010)

Lynn R said:


> Therefore, if you take Spanish nationality and have a clause in your will that you wish to bequeath your assets according to the laws of your own country (the UK in this case) rather than Spanish succession laws which proscribe how you must divide your estate, then presumably that clause would no longer be recognised as so far as Spain is concerned you would be Spanish. That could be important to some people (including me).


You need to take a close look at the actual law as enacted in Spain. The EU directive is very broad it only requires you to be able to establish links to the other country (such as having lived or worked there for a significant period of time). I don't know how it has been applied in Spain, but you certainly should check that out.


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## stevesainty (Jan 7, 2011)

Test de Nacionalidad - Nacionalidad EspañolaNacionalidad Española

I saw this link on another forum the other day. I do not know how up to date it is or whether it actually forms part of the process. I passed, barely, but if I had not guessed correctly on some of the questions that I did not know the answer to I probably would have failed it. I would doubt whether the average Spanish person would know all the answers. I suspect the average Brit could not answer similar questions about the UK.

Good luck to all those people who are going down this route.


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

stevesainty said:


> Test de Nacionalidad - Nacionalidad EspañolaNacionalidad Española
> 
> I saw this link on another forum the other day. I do not know how up to date it is or whether it actually forms part of the process. I passed, barely, but if I had not guessed correctly on some of the questions that I did not know the answer to I probably would have failed it. I would doubt whether the average Spanish person would know all the answers. I suspect the average Brit could not answer similar questions about the UK.
> 
> Good luck to all those people who are going down this route.


I've done the test online before and "passed", but if I ever decided to go ahead and apply for Spanish nationality I would take one of the special preparation courses being offered (the language school where I learned Spanish is running one, for example, combined with DELE A2 Spanish - I'd do that too, my Spanish is informally at a higher level but I'd need the revision before taking the exam).


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

stevesainty said:


> Test de Nacionalidad - Nacionalidad EspañolaNacionalidad Española
> 
> I saw this link on another forum the other day. I do not know how up to date it is or whether it actually forms part of the process. I passed, barely, but if I had not guessed correctly on some of the questions that I did not know the answer to I probably would have failed it. I would doubt whether the average Spanish person would know all the answers. I suspect the average Brit could not answer similar questions about the UK.
> 
> Good luck to all those people who are going down this route.


A couple of friends have recently taken it. The actual exam is 25 multiple choice questions taken from the current 'stock' of 300 (I think) questions. This is a good site for practice Test de Nacionalidad Española. Examen 200 preguntas de nacionalidad. Test de prueba CCSE - Parainmigrantes.info

More info here https://examenes.cervantes.es/es/ccse/examen

You can click through to a 'model' exam from there


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

snikpoh said:


> I truly don't understand the issue. If I apply for Spanish nationality, and subsequently get it, then I will have dual nationality. You can NOT lose British Nationality - just like Americans can't lose theirs.
> 
> So why the petition?


Because they are asking that British people be _granted_ dual nationality.

Also just because you do not lose your British passport it does not mean that _dual_ nationality is recognised in either country.

Personally I don't see why we should have different rights to other non europeans, but I signed the petition anyway - as they say in Spanish si cuela, cuela ... (a bit like well, if you can get away with it...)
http://www.wordreference.com/es/en/translation.asp?spen=si%20cuela,%20cuela


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

EverHopeful said:


> You need to take a close look at the actual law as enacted in Spain. The EU directive is very broad it only requires you to be able to establish links to the other country (such as having lived or worked there for a significant period of time). I don't know how it has been applied in Spain, but you certainly should check that out.


It's all in the forum already as it's been discussed many times. The search funtion isn't always the best but if people wanting to know search will, wills, inheritance threads come up.

And there have also been threads about taking Spanish nationality with the exam questions link so there is more info here if anyoone wants to search.

Maybe they could be included in the stickies


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

I read recently that the number of Brits applying for Spanish nationality had increased from about 60 a year to over 400 since the referendum.

So it's still very much a minority option.


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

I have signed it. You never know, it might help!


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## pedro6 (Aug 4, 2016)

that's what I thought!!


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Lynn R said:


> Therefore, if you take Spanish nationality and have a clause in your will that you wish to bequeath your assets according to the laws of your own country (the UK in this case) rather than Spanish succession laws which proscribe how you must divide your estate, then presumably that clause would no longer be recognised as so far as Spain is concerned you would be Spanish. That could be important to some people (including me).


*"bequeath your assets according to the laws of your own country (the UK in this case)"*

The law states "of your Nationality." You cannot rescind your British Nationality so the law of where you were born applies (England & Wales or Scotland or N.Ireland.) The problem is that Spain does not recognise dual nationality, however the EU Regulations (apply in Spain) state that if you have more than one nationality, you are free choose which country's law applies to your will.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

EverHopeful said:


> You need to take a close look at the actual law as enacted in Spain. The EU directive is very broad it only requires you to be able to establish links to the other country (such as having lived or worked there for a significant period of time). I don't know how it has been applied in Spain, but you certainly should check that out.


It is not a EU Directive - they are EU Regulations which apply automatically in all EU countries - the countries themselves do not have to enact their own law to comply, as they would if it were a Directive.


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## pedro6 (Aug 4, 2016)

I think if you take Spanish nationality now you will be forced to follow Spanish succession and if divorced and have children from a previous marriage they will be entitled to part of your estate whether your partner likes it or not (see my post on "why a Spanish will"), I think this is one of the reasons so few have opted for this.

That as you point out is the advantage of changing the law as per the petition.


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## pedro6 (Aug 4, 2016)

One particular factor to consider which might weigh quite heavily with British applicants for Spanish nationality is that their testamentary situation would come under Spanish inheritance jurisdiction. These laws restrict the testator’s freedom when drawing up a Will, and thave compulsory heirs (herederos forzosos), with the result that two-thirds of an estate must be left to the deceased’s children – half of that two-thirds in equal parts between all children and the other may be left unequally but must be left to a child or children: a a surviving spouse has a life interest (usufruct) in that second half of the two-thirds. The final third of the estate can be left to whomever the testator desires – and assuming this would be a spouse, would be the only part of the estate that could be directly inherited by a spouse. This sets out the current position as I understand it.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

pedro6 said:


> One particular factor to consider which might weigh quite heavily with British applicants for Spanish nationality is that their testamentary situation would come under Spanish inheritance jurisdiction. These laws restrict the testator’s freedom when drawing up a Will, and thave compulsory heirs (herederos forzosos), with the result that two-thirds of an estate must be left to the deceased’s children – half of that two-thirds in equal parts between all children and the other may be left unequally but must be left to a child or children: a a surviving spouse has a life interest (usufruct) in that second half of the two-thirds. The final third of the estate can be left to whomever the testator desires – and assuming this would be a spouse, would be the only part of the estate that could be directly inherited by a spouse. This sets out the current position as I understand it.


NO Under the European Succession Regulations, if you have more than one nationality, you are free to choose under which country's law your will is written and thereby YOU decide which inheritance law applies. See EU Succession Regulations, 650/2012 Article 22.


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

baldilocks said:


> NO Under the European Succession Regulations, if you have more than one nationality, you are free to choose under which country's law your will is written and thereby YOU decide which inheritance law applies. See EU Succession Regulations, 650/2012 Article 22.


But British citizens, after the UK has left the EU, will presumably not be covered by European Succession Regulations as they will not be citizens of an EU country - unless some agreement is reached during the negotiations which says that those who had made this election prior to the UK leaving can retain that right, along with the many thousands of other things to be considered. And, as Pedro6 has confirmed, Spain does not recognise dual nationality anyway, so if a UK citizen resident in Spain has taken Spanish nationality, then as far as Spain is concerned they are Spanish and will therefore be subject to Spanish succession laws.


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## 95995 (May 16, 2010)

Lynn R said:


> But British citizens, after the UK has left the EU, will presumably not be covered by European Succession Regulations as they will not be citizens of an EU country - unless some agreement is reached during the negotiations which says that those who had made this election prior to the UK leaving can retain that right, along with the many thousands of other things to be considered. And, as Pedro6 has confirmed, Spain does not recognise dual nationality anyway, so if a UK citizen resident in Spain has taken Spanish nationality, then as far as Spain is concerned they are Spanish and will therefore be subject to Spanish succession laws.


*The regulation applies equally to citizens of non-EU countries*. Thus, having 3 nationalities, I can choose to make a will under the laws of France, the UK or Australia. As far as Spain not recognising your other nationality is concerned, that does not apply in relation to the EU Regulation (at least for as long as the Regulation remains in place and Spain remains a member of the EU).


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Lynn R said:


> But British citizens, after the UK has left the EU, will presumably not be covered by European Succession Regulations as they will not be citizens of an EU country - unless some agreement is reached during the negotiations which says that those who had made this election prior to the UK leaving can retain that right, along with the many thousands of other things to be considered. And, as Pedro6 has confirmed, Spain does not recognise dual nationality anyway, so if a UK citizen resident in Spain has taken Spanish nationality, then as far as Spain is concerned they are Spanish and will therefore be subject to Spanish succession laws.


As I said in post 15


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Lynn R said:


> But British citizens, after the UK has left the EU, will presumably not be covered by European Succession Regulations as they will not be citizens of an EU country - unless some agreement is reached during the negotiations which says that those who had made this election prior to the UK leaving can retain that right, along with the many thousands of other things to be considered. And, as Pedro6 has confirmed, Spain does not recognise dual nationality anyway, so if a UK citizen resident in Spain has taken Spanish nationality, *then as far as Spain is concerned they are Spanish and will therefore be subject to Spanish succession laws.*


exactly


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## HKG3 (Jan 11, 2015)

baldilocks said:


> *"bequeath your assets according to the laws of your own country (the UK in this case)"*
> 
> You cannot rescind your British Nationality so the law of where you were born applies (England & Wales or Scotland or N.Ireland.) The problem is that Spain does not recognise dual nationality, however the EU Regulations (apply in Spain) state that if you have more than one nationality, you are free choose which country's law applies to your will.


The Spanish authority cannot revoke your British Citizenship, however, a British Citizen can give up his or her British Nationality. Please see link below - 

https://www.gov.uk/renounce-british-nationality/overview


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## pedro6 (Aug 4, 2016)

Because of all the confusion I asked the EU for their opinion
my question was 
If I take Spanish nationality and was a UK national does directive 650/2012 still allow me to opt for UK law in my will as Spain does not recognise dual nationality

and they have sent me this:

Planning your cross-border succession in the EU - Your Europe


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

HKG3 said:


> The Spanish authority cannot revoke your British Citizenship, however, a British Citizen can give up his or her British Nationality. Please see link below -
> 
> https://www.gov.uk/renounce-british-nationality/overview


They can't revoke it - but they can refuse to recognise it


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

pedro6 said:


> Because of all the confusion I asked the EU for their opinion
> my question was
> If I take Spanish nationality and was a UK national does directive 650/2012 still allow me to opt for UK law in my will as Spain does not recognise dual nationality
> 
> ...


As we have been telling you, if your Spanish will is made out in accordance with the EU Succession Regulations Art. 22, than you can have your succession determined as if it were in any country whose nationality you possess. The Regulations cover wills made in Spain, even if Spain doesn't recognise dual nationalities.


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## pedro6 (Aug 4, 2016)

I realise you have been saying that but others have not and I considered it better to clarify the position from the "horses mouth"
It still may change following the Brexit negotiations as pointed out in other posts.


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## 95995 (May 16, 2010)

pedro6 said:


> I realise you have been saying that but others have not and I considered it better to clarify the position from the "horses mouth"
> It still may change following the Brexit negotiations as pointed out in other posts.


Why would it change following Brexit negotiations? It's not as if it doesn't apply to non-EU citizens.


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## pedro6 (Aug 4, 2016)

EU rules of succession do not apply in the UK Denmark or Ireland and the EU COULD for this reason make an exception to the UK in Brexit negotiations, who knows at this time.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

pedro6 said:


> EU rules of succession do not apply in the UK Denmark or Ireland and the EU COULD for this reason make an exception to the UK in Brexit negotiations, who knows at this time.


But the point is The Regulations apply in Spain. It doesn't matter in England and Wales because there are no rules of succession there and one is free to dispose of one's property/assets as one wishes. In Scotland and Southern Ireland (Eire) there are reserved heirs and there are limited options for choice of how one disposes ones assets.


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## 95995 (May 16, 2010)

pedro6 said:


> EU rules of succession do not apply in the UK Denmark or Ireland and the EU COULD for this reason make an exception to the UK in Brexit negotiations, who knows at this time.


 :flypig:


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

baldilocks said:


> The problem is that Spain does not recognise dual nationality,


Neither does Britain with Spain. It's reciprocal


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## HKG3 (Jan 11, 2015)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Neither does Britain with Spain. It's reciprocal


The UK allows dual nationality. Please see link below for details - 

https://www.gov.uk/dual-citizenship


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

HKG3 said:


> The UK allows dual nationality. Please see link below for details -
> 
> https://www.gov.uk/dual-citizenship


I stand corrected. I thought it depended on the country and that uk - Spain did not have an agreement


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