# Documents required for naturalisation application



## Englishman-in-Paris

In the list of documents I need to provide for a naturalisation application it says that French official documents ("acte d'état civil français") need to be less than 3 months old. However, it does not mention anything about the validity of non-French documents (in my case, that would be UK birth certificates for myself and my parents). Has anyone got experience of this? My specific questions are :


Does a non-French birth certificate need to be less than 3 months old?
Does the official translation of the certificate need to be less than 3 months old?

And a bonus question : any idea how long the overall process takes these days? I plan to submit my "dossier" in March after my TEF test. I am currently on a 10-year permanent titre de séjour.


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## Bevdeforges

Generally speaking, yes, even foreign documents (official copies thereof, actually) need to be less than 3 - or sometimes 6 - months old. Which means that the translations do, too. What you need are "official copies" from the issuing office that are stamped/signed and dated as to the day they were drawn/copied. This derives from the fact that many documents (like birth records) are updated in France for various "major life events" so many of the regulations just assume that everyone else does things the same way (which they don't). 

You can usually get "assermenté" translations with fairly quick turnaround using either a local traducteur assermenté or go online, where there are a number of translation companies that will route you to someone with the proper qualifications to authenticate to French standards in short order.

And, for the "bonus question" - the overall process, once your "dossier" is accepted for processing generally takes a good year to come through. It's getting better these days, but it is sometimes the case that after you initially submit your dossier, they come back once or twice for "just one more" document. Depends on your circumstances and any "questions" regarding the information you have submitted. The year only starts once they have accepted the dossier in its entirety and notify you that they are processing it. Expect one or possibly two "interviews" somewhere along the way (again, depending on the basis on which you are claiming nationality).


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## mohsel

for naturalization I was told they accept up to 5 years old foreign documents... anyway, you can apply with what you have, then they will ask you for updated documents if they need. The process itself takes really long time. of course depending on where you are... but not less than a year from the time you get summoned for the interview, which can take a year itself even more !


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## ko12

Englishman-in-Paris said:


> Does a non-French birth certificate need to be less than 3 months old?
> Does the official translation of the certificate need to be less than 3 months old?
> And a bonus question : any idea how long the overall process takes these days? I plan to submit my "dossier" in March after my TEF test. I am currently on a 10-year permanent titre de séjour.


UK birth certs are not subject to any time limit. Occasionally there is some confusion over the fact that all UK certs are 'copies' in the sense that the 'originals' exist only in the registers, so we get 'original copies'! Given that for the last few years UK applicants have generally been 4th (after Algeria, Morocco & Tunisia), I think almost all prefectures will be au fait with that.

Ours (wife & I) took (start to finish) 27 months (Aug 2018 got RDV dates for Jan 2019, then, after interview, dossier spent 10 months sitting around the préfécture before going to SDANF and then a year later confirmation of naturalisation in Nov 2020) which was a little on the long side (via Toulouse; some préféctures were taking twice as long). It seems that things have speeded up a bit since the panic over Covid has begun to subside (at least a bit) even here.


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## simpleton

Having just been through it myself (although via marriage rather than by decree) and doing quite a bit of research during the process, it seems that different prefectures apply the rules as to what's required differently. For example my prefecture didn't accept the EU multilingual versions of certificates but some do. There is a Facebook group ("applying for French nationality") which is worth joining to find out the specific experience of others in your area. You can also see examples of the interview questions in your prefecture.

If you're applying via Paris, it seems that they have the fastest turnaround on applications, often well under a year, whereas Montpellier, Nice and others can take over 3 years (less if applying via marriage).


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## Bevdeforges

simpleton said:


> it seems that different prefectures apply the rules as to what's required differently.


Ah, yes, one of the "features" of the system here. That said, the chances are good that, if your particular prefecture insists on the "recent" official copy thing, chances are they won't accept your dossier until everything is up to their particular standards - and the clock doesn't start running on processing until the dossier has been accepted.

I'm told that nowadays (at least in some prefectures), your new citizenship doesn't take effect until the date of the ceremony you are expected to attend (I guess to receive your documents).


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## ko12

Bevdeforges said:


> I'm told that nowadays (at least in some prefectures), your new citizenship doesn't take effect until the date of the ceremony you are expected to attend (I guess to receive your documents).


That seems extremely bizarre since (par décret) you receive a letter from the relevant part of the Ministère de l'intérieur (Direction générale des étrangers en France; Le sous-directeur de l'accès à la nationalité française) a week or two (but dated a day or two) after your appearance in the JO that: "J'ai le plaisir de vous informar que vous avez acquis la nationalité française depuis le ...[date officielle]."


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## ko12

simpleton said:


> There is a Facebook group ("applying for French nationality") which is worth joining to find out the specific experience of others in your area.


That excellent group covers the whole of France. There are many others, usefully including regionally relevant ones, for example Gaining French Citizenship In Toulouse & Naturalisation Toulouse RDV SOS ET PROCEDURE both of which (for Occitanie applications) we found useful, especially the English language one (that French language one being dominated by students from the Maghreb). 

I know there are others devoted to other regions. I found that it was important to access both English and French language groups.


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## Bevdeforges

Yeah, it seems bizarre to me - but that's what my Brit friends were told a year or two ago when they took their French nationality (in preparation for Brexit). Maybe one of those prefectoral "discretions." When my friends got their "ceremony" they received their CNF at the ceremony (and that's the date they put on the CNF - so maybe the local prefet has a "deal" with the local mayors).


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## simpleton

I haven't had a ceremony - I was told that it might not happen because of covid - they were all still cancelled at the time of my interview. Neither have I received my CNF (perhaps they're being held back until the ceremonies restart or there's some other form of delay) but I have now got my ID card and new passport for which I just needed to show the email confirming citizenship.


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## Lisa Elsey

Can anyone tell me whether they were really obliged to provide their parents' birth certificates, my parents were born in the 1930s and have been dead for 20 years. Will I have to apply for copies of their birth certificates? I might be able to obtain copy death certificates, but birth certificates might be an issue since I'm not sure exactly where they were born. Any help would be greatly appreciated


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## Bevdeforges

I would expect that the certified death certificate copies might include their places of birth. Granted, it's yet another document to get. What (I think) they want the birth certs for is to "prove" their nationality (at least at birth). Plus, there is the French custom of updating the birth records for major events in a person's life, and that is how they could (in theory anyhow) get a quick and easy summary of each parent's history.

If you really are unable to get the birth certificates for your parents, you may want to ask when you go to ask about naturalization to see if any other document you can get can be substituted. I would expect to have to obtain your parents' marriage certificate and potentially whatever other documents you can get that would show their nationalities at your date of birth.

There is always a bit of "negotiating room" if you really can't get one or another document (particularly a foreign sourced document) for these kinds of administrative functions. You do need to work with the office requesting the information to try to determine some alternative document to prove whatever it is they are looking for. 

Trust me on this one - I was married the first time in a US state which does not issue marriage certificates. If you want one, you have to go in person to the courthouse in the country in which the marriage took place, which was out of the question at the time. I managed to talk them into accepting a copy of my divorce certificate, since it's unlikely I would have gotten divorced without having been married. Though well after the fact it dawned on me that my "nom de jeune fille" appears nowhere in the divorce paperwork (different state from the marriage).


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## Lisa Elsey

Thank you, I've got my sister searching for the original birth certificates and wedding certificate (she's the only one interested in our family history😂) and my brother looking for their death certificates (he applied for probate so had all the originals then). We have emailed copies, but it's been so long that the originals have probably need destroyed. I envy my elder daughter - she lives in a department where the démarche is online, so doesn't have to provide any originals (although maybe she will when she has her interview, if she does, I'm not looking forward to trusting the postal service with my important documents, although I have to when _I_ apply cos we're still paper applications). I worry that if I don't have the documents they'll simply reject my demande, we'll have to see. Since everyone was born in the UK going back generations, perhaps it's pretty irrelevant, maybe they're only really bothered if I'm trying to claim that I'm already 'French' by family history 🤞🤞
It's reassuring to know that there is wiggle room, although maybe that varies for préfecture to préfecture..Thanks for your help, it's very much appreciated


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## Poloss

Englishman-in-Paris said:


> And a bonus question : any idea how long the overall process takes these days? I plan to submit my "dossier" in March after my TEF test. I am currently on a 10-year permanent titre de séjour.


Assuming your naturalisation demand is by décret and not via marriage with a French national,
I can quote a member of the naturalisation team at Limoges who stated that they are currently processing décret applications received in 2019. 
That was 4 weeks ago.
Limoges centralises applications from 3 fairly rural départements and is understaffed.
I have no information about the delay for other regions


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## Poloss

Bevdeforges said:


> I'm told that nowadays (at least in some prefectures), your new citizenship doesn't take effect until the date of the ceremony you are expected to attend (I guess to receive your documents).


I was told that I'd get confirmation via the foreign ministry's état-civil service in Nantes, (and not through the ministère de l'intérieur in Paris) together with the necessary documentation enabling me to apply immediately for French CNI, passport and inscription on the electoral lists.
The official ceremony with the Marseillaise and handshake would be much later, when there were enough newly naturalised to make it worthwhile for the Préfet.
I'll update that together with a complete timeline when I get more news.


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## pyat

You're French from the moment your name is published in the lists the government puts out of naturalisations, the Journal Officiel. However the administration waits until that happens to start the process of establishing your French birth certificate at Nantes (or adding the marginal mention if you were born in France), and until that's done there's no point trying to get anything else like a passport or CNI.


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