# tax declarations



## agua642 (May 24, 2009)

Filling in a tax return isn't an obligation or law, I have looked on the government hacienda site and u r only required to fill one In if u earn over a certain amount
www.aeat.es
Lots of useful information


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

agua642 said:


> Filling in a tax return isn't an obligation or law, I have looked on the government hacienda site and u r only required to fill one In if u earn over a certain amount
> Agencia Tributaria - Inicio
> Lots of useful information


Yes of course, any gestor will tell you that. Mine tells me not to bother putting a return in ..... but I do.

Of course the other side of the coin is that you have documentary proof that you have been a tax resident in Spain for the period of your returns, and that can come in handy in the future depending on your circumstances. For the cost of €50 a year it's worth it.


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## Beachcomber (May 10, 2009)

True, but the threshold is far lower than the amount that most people require to sustain any kind of lifestyle so unless you are living in a hovel with no water or electricity supply not making a tax return is likely (eventually) to be a recipe for disaster.

This link may be more useful than the general one to the AEAT web site:

http://www.aeat.es/AEAT/Contenidos_...ormacion/FolletosPDF/declRentaIRPF2007_en.pdf


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## 90199 (Mar 21, 2010)

We do not have any income in Spain, all our income is taxed at source in the U.K. and cannot be changed.

Should I therefore submit a return with zero income?

The gestor I consulted told me no.

Hepa


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## Beachcomber (May 10, 2009)

If your income is from a UK government pension (police, teaching profession, social worker etc) you are not obliged to declare it in Spain. 

However, if you sell a property at some time in the future you may find it difficult to obtain a certificate of fiscal residence if you have not submitted Spanish tax returns and may be treated as a fiscal non-resident resulting in a 3% retention being made on the sale price of the property.

This is a fact that is often not taken into account by gestors and and fiscal advisors.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

someone I know here applied for help towards school books - they have recieved it in previous years - last year they were turned down because they hadn't filed a tax return the first year they were here -2006 I think

she told them that they weren't working that year & had been told that they didn't need to, & the reply was that they should have filed a nil return

for the simple reason that they didn't, they can't get the help any more - it's only about 150€ - but every little helps...


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## 90199 (Mar 21, 2010)

Beachcomber said:


> If your income is from a UK government pension (police, teaching profession, social worker etc) you are not obliged to declare it in Spain.
> 
> However, if you sell a property at some time in the future you may find it difficult to obtain a certificate of fiscal residence if you have not submitted Spanish tax returns and may be treated as a fiscal non-resident resulting in a 3% retention being made on the sale price of the property.
> 
> This is a fact that is often not taken into account by gestors and and fiscal advisors.


Ahh now I understand, thanks for that.

I think I will have to show a small fictitious income from property that I do not rent out. Or rent out the said property sometime in the future, just to get on the books so to speak. 

When does that tax return need returning, am I too late this year?


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

Hepa said:


> Ahh now I understand, thanks for that.
> 
> I think I will have to show a small fictitious income from property that I do not rent out. Or rent out the said property sometime in the future, just to get on the books so to speak.
> 
> When does that tax return need returning, am I too late this year?


By May


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

Beachcomber said:


> True, but the threshold is far lower than the amount that most people require to sustain any kind of lifestyle so unless you are living in a hovel with no water or electricity supply not making a tax return is likely (eventually) to be a recipe for disaster.


You need a good gestor then


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## Beachcomber (May 10, 2009)

The deadline is the end of June not May. Remember that the thresholds are about making a a tax declaration not about the actual payment of tax.

If you own a property other than that in which you live and it is not rented out you should be paying notional income tax for it on your annual tax return.


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

Beachcomber said:


> The deadline is the end of June not May. Remember that the thresholds are about making a a tax declaration not about the actual payment of tax.
> 
> If you own a property other than that in which you live and it is not rented out you should be paying notional income tax for it on your annual tax return.


Well, all I can tell you is the the local tax office here, and my gestor and everyone else I know around here all work on the end of May

I dont own a property that I dont live in , and I know what the thresholds are for thanks


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## rke.golfer (May 23, 2010)

This is slighty off beam, but only a little.

When we move to Spain, next year when my wife retires, we have thought about the tax position.

Our view is that if we live in Spain we should pay Spanish taxes. The idea is to get our pensions and annuities paid gross (probably into an English account) and to transfer the money across. We would declare all income for Spanish tax purposes.

Does anybody do it this way, and does it work?


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## Beachcomber (May 10, 2009)

The deadline is the 30th June:

Cómo presentar su declaración de Renta 2010 fuera de plazo

"_La campaña finalizó el pasado 30 de junio_"

My comment about a second property was directed to Hepa who appears to indicate that he owns one.


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## Beachcomber (May 10, 2009)

RKE, yes, the proceeds from my private pension is paid gross into a UK bank account as is interest from my offshore bank accounts and, although I do not actually transfer the funds to Spain, I declare them on my annual Spanish tax return.


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## rke.golfer (May 23, 2010)

Beachcomber,

Thanks for that. I am happy that our plan will work.:clap2:


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## stevelin (Apr 25, 2009)

We do the same as beachcomber we are paid gross in UK on our pension and then declare that and any interest received in the last year (Jan-Dec). Even though not all of our pension is transferred. Last date for declaration is June 30


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## rke.golfer (May 23, 2010)

stevelin said:


> We do the same as beachcomber we are paid gross in UK on our pension and then declare that and any interest received in the last year (Jan-Dec). Even though not all of our pension is transferred. Last date for declaration is June 30


Thanks for that, very helpful.


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## Alcanara (Feb 15, 2010)

*Wow!!!*

My wife and I have been here since October 2004. We have never drawn money from Spain, earned any money from Spain, sold any property in Spain or indeed rented out our own property. All our income is from pensions drawn from the UK and tax paid in the UK.

We have the one property in Spain which we live in full time. From what is said above, we would have to fill in tax returns here, albeit they would, I assume, be nil tax returns.

Questions:- 
Can we fill in returns going back to October 2004?

Would we have to use a gestor?

How much approx. would it cost?

Thank you for your help in this matter

Alcanara


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## Marcbernard (Jan 20, 2010)

Alcanara said:


> My wife and I have been here since October 2004. We have never drawn money from Spain, earned any money from Spain, sold any property in Spain or indeed rented out our own property. All our income is from pensions drawn from the UK and tax paid in the UK.
> 
> We have the one property in Spain which we live in full time. From what is said above, we would have to fill in tax returns here, albeit they would, I assume, be nil tax returns.
> 
> ...


If you really want to put in past years' returns I believe it will cost around €200 per year possibly plus interest on the fine. Then there may be tax to pay plus interest plus fine for late payment. My advice, leave sleeping dogs alone and go forward next year. I have been in Spain since 1996 and only just begun to submit returns because earlier, when I transferred myself fiscally to Spain I was told by Hacienda that a return was only required if the parameters were such. As my CS pension was totally ignored by Spain, there was no need. NOW, when it became useful to claim fiscal residence, I find that the law was changed and now they want everyone resident here to put in a tax return every year. If you have no taxable income in Spain, a NIL return will suit very well and be accepted (at least in Valencia region). 
Beware that just because HMRC in UK is prepared to take your tax it does not mean that it is correct to do so. If you are a public service pensioner then that will remain taxable UK, but any other pension, including State Retirment pension, will be taxable only in Spain together with other world income. You may well gain "double" tax allowances!!
Use a Gestor in the first year unless you can read (and understand) Spanish and like filling in forms. He/she will probably charge between 50 and 75€. will do it on line and any tax refund will arrive in your bank account PDQ.


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## Beachcomber (May 10, 2009)

If you really want to catch up on your taxes you need only go back four years but I agree that it is probably best to start from next year for this year.

I do my own tax returns as I don't have much faith in gestors and certainly would certainly never touch a Spanish lawyer with a barge pole for anything.

You should be submitting a tax return in Spain and if you decide to do so try to get advice from at least two different Spanish fiscal advisors. I am willing to bet that the advice and the result of the return will differ. You could also take all of your papers to the local tax office and ask for free help in submitting your returns.

It is all very hit and miss but it will be worth your persistence in the long run.


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## pigscanfly (Feb 2, 2010)

I am only a layman with regards to tax, but I do like to sleep well at night so I like to make sure everything is declared

all UK earnings, interest, rental, dividends earned in UK declared to UK taxman
any excess above UK tax allowances taxed and paid in sterling to HMRC

All worldwide earnings, interest, rental, dividends earned everywhere including the UK declared to Spanish taxman
any excess above Spanish tax allowances subject to spanish tax less any UK tax paid so I only pay the balance here in Spain


if no difference to pay it ends up being a nil return


is my understanding correct

Many thanks


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## stevelin (Apr 25, 2009)

I think it depends what's best for you. We are paid gross in the UK and pay tax in Spain although this is less than we were paying in the UK as its only my other half who has an income but in Spain we both get tax allowance so submitting a joint tax return mean less tax to pay here. Also if you have a mortgage or pay rent you can get an additional allowance here again reducing your tax bill


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## Beachcomber (May 10, 2009)

Don't forget that the tax form 100 now allows you to change from joint to individual declarations at will so once you have completed the form you can check to see if it is more beneficial to submit joint or individual declarations.


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## Lilo Lil (Jun 17, 2010)

Can anyone tell me what the tax allowance is here in Spain for a single person? Or, if nobody knows, where can I find out this information? I believe it's not as much as the tax allowance in the UK.


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## pigscanfly (Feb 2, 2010)

*2011 allowances*

I Use these

General allowance 5,151 euro 
Age allowance (65+) 6,069 euro (75+) 6,273 euro 
Disabled allowance 2,316 - 7,038 euro depending on degree of incapacity 


regards


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## pigscanfly (Feb 2, 2010)

*other tax info*



> Personal Allowances for Spanish income tax- minimo personal
> General allowance 5,151 euro
> Age allowance (65+) 6,069 euro (75+) 6,273 euro
> Disabled allowance 2,316 - 7,038 euro depending on degree of incapacity
> ...



taken from *spainaccountant.com*
regards


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

pigscanfly said:


> Personal Allowances for Spanish income tax- minimo personal
> General allowance 5,151 euro
> Age allowance (65+) 6,069 euro (75+) 6,273 euro
> Disabled allowance 2,316 - 7,038 euro depending on degree of incapacity
> ...


very comprehensive

where did the info come from? it could be a useful link for our 'sticky'


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## Beachcomber (May 10, 2009)

If you are going to copy and paste from someone else's web site perhaps you should consider crediting your source in order to avoid allegations of plagiarism:

Notes on Spanish income tax. 

Note this inclusion at the bottom of the page:

© Copyright Spain Accountants Consulting, S.L. 2011


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## pigscanfly (Feb 2, 2010)

xabiachica said:


> very comprehensive
> 
> where did the info come from? it could be a useful link for our 'sticky'



I am not allowed to post websites so had to copy and paste, if you can pm or e-mail me I will give it to you

regards


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Beachcomber said:


> If you are going to copy and paste from someone else's web site perhaps you should consider crediting your source in order to avoid allegations of plagiarism:
> 
> Notes on Spanish income tax.
> 
> ...




that's what I meant too.......I was just trying to be nice about it


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## pigscanfly (Feb 2, 2010)

Beachcomber said:


> If you are going to copy and paste from someone else's web site perhaps you should consider crediting your source in order to avoid allegations of plagiarism:
> 
> 
> Note this inclusion at the bottom of the page:
> ...


would have given the website but was not allowed to post, but I note the suggested inclusions for future

thanks

regards


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## Beachcomber (May 10, 2009)

xabiachica said:


> that's what I meant too.......I was just trying to be nice about it


I'm not nice!!


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

pigscanfly said:


> I am not allowed to post websites so had to copy and paste, if you can pm or e-mail me I will give it to you
> 
> regards


you should be able to pretty soon - for future reference, you have to at least say where it came from


in this case you could simply have said _from *spainaccountants.com*_



and I'll edit your original post for you, so that you can see what you could have done


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## Lilo Lil (Jun 17, 2010)

pigscanfly said:


> taken from *spainaccountant.com*
> regards


Thanks for the information.


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## lovodale (Aug 22, 2011)

This has been very helpful. I will be retiring on a UK government pension and have been told that because it is taxed at source, I will not be liable for tax in Spain. Nevertheless the bill return sounds like a very sensible idea.


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## mrmedia (Jul 8, 2011)

I'm interested in the disabled allowance. I'm profoundly deaf - how much would I receive? I have an eye in retiring to Spain - having a tax reason to do so might be just what I need. I'll have a government - teachers - pension though.


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

lovodale said:


> This has been very helpful. I will be retiring on a UK government pension and have been told that because it is taxed at source, I will not be liable for tax in Spain. Nevertheless the bill return sounds like a very sensible idea.


Dont forget to "zero rate" yourself for tax anyway though with HMRC Nottingham. In that way your Govt pension will be able to use the UK allowances, and your state pension will be able to take account for the Spanish allowances. Best of both worlds


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

mrmedia said:


> I'm interested in the disabled allowance. I'm profoundly deaf - how much would I receive? I have an eye in retiring to Spain - having a tax reason to do so might be just what I need. I'll have a government - teachers - pension though.


Some disability allowances which you would be entitled to in the UK can be claimed in Spain. Check out
What benefits am I entitled to if I live in Spain?


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## lovodale (Aug 22, 2011)

*More useful information*



Stravinsky said:


> Dont forget to "zero rate" yourself for tax anyway though with HMRC Nottingham. In that way your Govt pension will be able to use the UK allowances, and your state pension will be able to take account for the Spanish allowances. Best of both worlds


Thanks for the tip. I have a lot to learn!


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## ivorra (Sep 24, 2008)

Stravinsky said:


> Dont forget to "zero rate" yourself for tax anyway though with HMRC Nottingham. In that way your Govt pension will be able to use the UK allowances, and your state pension will be able to take account for the Spanish allowances. Best of both worlds


But - at the end of the day when you submit your Spanish tax return ('la renta'), your total tax paid in the UK is set against your *Spanish* tax liability on your global income. The tax allowances you are due under the Spanish system are included in the formulation of your return. If you are truthful in stating your income from all sources together with the tax paid in UK or other states where you are receiving income, you will ultimately pay tax in Spain on all your income according to the prevailing Spanish tax code. 

By the way, having used gestors for our renta for ten years, this time we went to the Hacienda. The appointment is made in advance and we didn't have to wait long to be seen by an official. After reviewing the documents we had brought with us including the 'borrador' (draft renta based on the previous return and issued by the tax authority), he called in his supervisor and we had quite a prolonged session but it was all done with efficiency and courtesy - also it was free unlike the gestor. We came away having had the renta submitted and finalised and knowing that our tax affairs had an official stamp of approval. There was not that uneasy feeling we used to get when putting the renta in the hands of the gestor who is really only a form filler and is not qualified to give advice and takes no responibility for the accuracy of your tax return.


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

ivorra said:


> But - at the end of the day when you submit your Spanish tax return ('la renta'), your total tax paid in the UK is set against your *Spanish* tax liability on your global income. The tax allowances you are due under the Spanish system are included in the formulation of your return. If you are truthful in stating your income from all sources together with the tax paid in UK or other states where you are receiving income, you will ultimately pay tax in Spain on all your income according to the prevailing Spanish tax code.


No ... the Spanish authorities are not interested in a Government Pension because they know, through agreement, that it has no bearing on tax in Spain. It's nothing about being interested ... both the hacienda and my local gestor have stated that it is not worth declaring in Spain as it is not taxable in Spain.

Therefore, as my wife has done, if you declare it for tax as is correct in the UK, the UK authorities apply the UK tax allowance. Having completed the correct documentation she is not taxed in the UK for anything else and declares the state pension here. That takes account of the Spanish allowances, and therefore she pays no tax on it here. This is the correct way of doing it according to the Spanish gestor, the hacienda and HMRC


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