# Barcelona or Dubai?



## snowrobin (Mar 2, 2018)

So - situation for me now is as follows:

Dubai have offered me a good paid job, reputable bank. Good benefits - been there on that thread I know all is fine. 

However.. my current employer in London asked me why we were relocating to Dubai. He knew our ultimate goal was to go Spain - family etc. He has offered me more or less same as Dubai and said I could relocate to Spain should I wish and work remotely twice a week. This is "doable" for me as my parents live in London so I get to see them and stay with them. Just need to cover the cost of relatively cheap flights and deal with the travel.

Dubai have said that I would climb the ladder more there than London - is this true?

Also I just wondered for those of you that have been in Dubai a while.. a) What really made you move and b) having been there a while now what would you chose? Barcelona or Dubai?


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## UKMS (Jan 9, 2017)

Firstly your ladder question ...... difficult for anyone to answer without knowing what you do and who you work for. The company I work for you can pretty much climb the ladder wherever you work if you are good at what you do, Dubai or UK makes no difference but that won’t be the same for everyone. 

If you can earn the same in Spain after tax as you earn in Dubai and that’s your end goal anyway why would you move here, cut out the middle man ! 

Weve been here just over a year and very settled now and happy. I moved here with the same company I worked for in UK and being blunt I moved here for the money to round off my pension and the nice lifestyle we have. 

If I were choosing between the two I’d still choose Dubai in my situation ..... but from the little I know about your circumstances from your posts I’d probably choose Spain.


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## snowrobin (Mar 2, 2018)

Thanks for the response. I work in project management in the banking industry. 

The reason I’m debating it too is I worked out to get the type of place in Spain (Barcelona ) which would be a house with a pool etc would cost the same as a 2/3 bed in Dubai. But I’d be okay with that in Dubai not Spain because the apartments are much bigger and offer more. Plus perhaps as I see Dubai as a temporary option.


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## twowheelsgood (Feb 21, 2013)

Given Spain has high income taxes, and Dubai has no income taxes and you'd be getting your accommodation paid for, I struggle to understand how the amount you would be getting would be even close ?


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## Chocoholic (Oct 29, 2012)

Do you have children? As the cost of schooling in Dubai is insane.

If your ultimate goal is to be in Spain and you can stay working for the same company - accruing pension etc, then I don't know why you'd even consider Dubai.

The cost of living has gone up dramatically. People say there are no 'taxes' but we're taxed indirectly with housing fees, toll gates, VAT now.

Also you say you still want to be able to see you parents? Well a 7 hour expensive flight from Dubai is a whole lot different than a hop, skip and a jump from Spain.

I think you already answered your own questions to be honest.


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## snowrobin (Mar 2, 2018)

twowheelsgood said:


> Given Spain has high income taxes, and Dubai has no income taxes and you'd be getting your accommodation paid for, I struggle to understand how the amount you would be getting would be even close ?


Not getting my accommodation paid for in Dubai. I’m on a very good wage in the UK and I’m working out “close” based on cost of living in both countries. Barcelona which is where I would go is not a cheap place to live. Add to that cost of flights etc.


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## snowrobin (Mar 2, 2018)

Chocoholic said:


> Do you have children? As the cost of schooling in Dubai is insane.
> 
> If your ultimate goal is to be in Spain and you can stay working for the same company - accruing pension etc, then I don't know why you'd even consider Dubai.
> 
> ...


No. I don’t have children and if I did I would not take the package given for the very reason you have said. It’s not enough. 

I can work for the same company but a) it’s not a sustainable way of living going back and forth b) they have said they would do it for me but on a temporary basis and c) they aren’t that willing to help me change roles which is also why I’m debating leaving them 

Yes - I know the flight thing but sometimes you got to man up and do you what’s best for you.

Also agree people harp on about no income tax but the cost of living is high and as you say going higher so it almost starts to mean little. 

I was just curious if the majority of people here came to Dubai and were done with it X years down the line and would of preferred somewhere else given the choice.


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## twowheelsgood (Feb 21, 2013)

snowrobin said:


> Not getting my accommodation paid for in Dubai.


Your potential employer is taking the proverbial - so go for Spain on that basis.

I must admit I have literally never heard of anyone getting an offer which does not include an accommodation allowance unless its a labourer working on a construction site and living in a camp.

Any company which would do that is to be treated as highly suspicious as even if they claim they have bundled it all into the salary, as that would make no financial sense for them as they would have to effectively pay gratuity on the allowance as well.


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## Winks13 (Oct 8, 2012)

snowrobin said:


> No. I don’t have children and if I did I would not take the package given for the very reason you have said. It’s not enough.
> 
> I can work for the same company but a) it’s not a sustainable way of living going back and forth b) they have said they would do it for me but on a temporary basis and c) they aren’t that willing to help me change roles which is also why I’m debating leaving them
> 
> ...


Cost of living isn't bad here if you don't have kids. People who constantly harp on about how expensive it is often insist on living a certain lifestyle - regular dinners out, a regular maid service, new model cars, etc. You can get by here on a reasonably small amount if you don't get pulled into the 'Dubai lifestyle'. Personally, I'm living on a budget of 10,000 dhs per month at the moment which includes everything. Granted - I'm fairly aggressive with my saving goals but that's the reason you move here - right!?

I've been here for 5 1/2 years now and will likely be here for another 5. I've lived in other cities before and have looked into moving but for now I'm happy in Dubai, it's a good place to be. Sure, costs are rising a little with things like the introduction of VAT, but it's not that bad. Rent prices have fallen significantly over the past year or 2 and while the price of everything else gradually increases it's not extreme. 

If your current company wants to keep you that badly then hopefully that door would still be open in future in some way if things didn't work out in Dubai. There's not a lot of harm in coming over and giving it a go - you'll either find it's for you, or not. Either way, it's not much of a risk.


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## Winks13 (Oct 8, 2012)

twowheelsgood said:


> Your potential employer is taking the proverbial - so go for Spain on that basis.
> 
> I must admit I have literally never heard of anyone getting an offer which does not include an accommodation allowance unless its a labourer working on a construction site and living in a camp.
> 
> Any company which would do that is to be treated as highly suspicious as even if they claim they have bundled it all into the salary, as that would make no financial sense for them as they would have to effectively pay gratuity on the allowance as well.


Sorry I don't agree with this at all. Practically all of my friends here are in roles that do not include an accommodation allowance. I don't have one in my contract, and yes - my company pays out gratuity on my full salary due to this. 

Accommodation allowances are very 'old school' Dubai, a lot of companies are moving away from this nowadays and are just offering a single figure salary package that is intended to cover accommodation, transport, etc.


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## twowheelsgood (Feb 21, 2013)

Winks13 said:


> Sorry I don't agree with this at all. Practically all of my friends here are in roles that do not include an accommodation allowance. I don't have one in my contract, and yes - my company pays out gratuity on my full salary due to this.
> 
> Accommodation allowances are very 'old school' Dubai, a lot of companies are moving away from this nowadays and are just offering a single figure salary package that is intended to cover accommodation, transport, etc.


Sorry to disagree but I've worked for two large companies here and it is certainly NOT 'old school' to do accommodation allowances. I've worked with employers over the last few years with 10,000+ employees and not one of them has a job with no accommodation allowance as it simply makes zero economic sense. It costs nothing to the employer to run it that way.

All I can suggest is that all your friends must be on very low salary roles where the accommodation allowance is very small and it makes not a lot of difference. For the majority of people in high salary sectors like banks, then it makes a real difference. Why pay out additional gratuity when it costs nothing to split the salary ?

FYI the MoL is currently going around checking that employers are offering accommodation allowances.


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## Reddiva (Feb 24, 2016)

Twowheelsgood is correct

in my experience and all the clients i have worked with give a housing allowance however it tends to be part of the total salary ( Basic for gratuity plus housing and transport) Usually a 60/40 split. Not many companies apart from gov organisations in Abu Dhabi and a few in Dubai give it in addition to the full package and have worked in Dubai for 12 years with the same recruitment firm so see this everyday


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## snowrobin (Mar 2, 2018)

I’m really surprised about this accommodation thing. I thought I had done my homework by reading posts here and also when I posted what I was offered as part of my package nobody jumped up and said what! No accommodation allowance?! My offer is from one of the biggest regional banks so I really am surprised if they are not in line with what others are putting forward. Or perhaps they have baked it into the 32k a month and not highlighting it. Not illegal is it?


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## twowheelsgood (Feb 21, 2013)

Its certainly not illegal but it makes no sense as they will be paying out more for gratuity than they have to - and banks don't give away money pointlessly. But as you say its a local bank, the salaries are not likely to be competitive with global banks and PM in banks is what - IT projects in which case your salary is being measured against PM's from the subcontinent so they get paid a lot less.

You may find that when you get your final offer to sign, they then split it 60/40. It makes no difference in case terms to you of course.

No idea what your jobs entails but 32k all in is a lot less than our UK interns get here 

Sounds like much better offer from Barcelona.

Do tell us how the local bank reacts when you tell them that no accommodation allowance is a joke and that you can get over 32k for just a salary element, elsewhere.


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## snowrobin (Mar 2, 2018)

twowheelsgood said:


> Its certainly not illegal but it makes no sense as they will be paying out more for gratuity than they have to - and banks don't give away money pointlessly. But as you say its a local bank, the salaries are not likely to be competitive with global banks and PM in banks is what - IT projects in which case your salary is being measured against PM's from the subcontinent so they get paid a lot less.
> 
> You may find that when you get your final offer to sign, they then split it 60/40. It makes no difference in case terms to you of course.
> 
> ...


Haha. Yeah good point. I asked if I could survive on 32k not if it is a good offer for my experience etc. My thinking was to do that for a year and move elsewhere if it really was on the lower end of what I should expect. 

Anyway I am swaying more towards Barcelona. The local bank knows I have been counter offered and want to have a chat with me so let’s see what happens. The saga continues!


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## TallyHo (Aug 21, 2011)

An advantage of going to Barcelona is that you'll be in situ when Brexit happens. While not guaranteed at the moment it's likely British citizens already in the respective EU country will get some kind of permanent residency in exchange for guaranteeing the residency of EU nationals in the UK. Details will have to be sorted out, of course, but it's worth keeping in mind. 

I'm leaving Dubai after 12 years and have taken up an offer in Germany. I've enjoyed my time in the UAE but I am looking forward to returning to civilisation. Closer to home and I won't mind paying the stiff taxes in exchange for a more normal lifestyle.


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## Reddiva (Feb 24, 2016)

snowrobin said:


> I’m really surprised about this accommodation thing. I thought I had done my homework by reading posts here and also when I posted what I was offered as part of my package nobody jumped up and said what! No accommodation allowance?! My offer is from one of the biggest regional banks so I really am surprised if they are not in line with what others are putting forward. Or perhaps they have baked it into the 32k a month and not highlighting it. Not illegal is it?


Have they given you the offer in writing? as it should usually look like this

Basic xxxx
HRA xxxx
Transport xxxx

They probably didn't jump up as they would of assumed the 32k included accommodation allowance


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## snowrobin (Mar 2, 2018)

TallyHo said:


> An advantage of going to Barcelona is that you'll be in situ when Brexit happens. While not guaranteed at the moment it's likely British citizens already in the respective EU country will get some kind of permanent residency in exchange for guaranteeing the residency of EU nationals in the UK. Details will have to be sorted out, of course, but it's worth keeping in mind.
> 
> I'm leaving Dubai after 12 years and have taken up an offer in Germany. I've enjoyed my time in the UAE but I am looking forward to returning to civilisation. Closer to home and I won't mind paying the stiff taxes in exchange for a more normal lifestyle.


Yep that’s what my husband is harping on about re Brexit but I’m not sure I will even be a resident in Spain as I will be working for a UK employer and paying UK taxes. Still looking into what that all means. Oh the brain!

There. There it is what I meant. You say you’re leaving for normal civilisation and a more normal lifestyle. I know Dubai is a bubble and from what I read not normal. I guess it’s different for everyone.


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## snowrobin (Mar 2, 2018)

Reddiva said:


> Have they given you the offer in writing? as it should usually look like this
> 
> Basic xxxx
> HRA xxxx
> ...


Ah yes. It says 60% is the base salary. So rest falls under the benefits part.


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## Malbec (Jan 2, 2014)

TallyHo said:


> [...]
> I'm leaving Dubai after 12 years and have taken up an offer in Germany. I've enjoyed my time in the UAE but I am looking forward to *returning to civilisation*. Closer to home and I won't mind paying the stiff taxes in exchange for a more normal lifestyle.


You sound like my wife 
Seeing what happens in Germany lately, I would not call it civilisation either. Their immigration policy reminds of UAE. But I do get your point re more normal lifestyle. Good luck.


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## TallyHo (Aug 21, 2011)

Well.... I am looking forward to living in a proper city where I can easily walk to many places and hop on an efficient metro or bus to go further afield, or cross the road without worrying that someone is going to run me down, or drive on the autobahn without someone trying to punish me for going to slow by cutting in front of me and stepping on the brakes. I'm looking forward to far better quality produce and food in general. I'm looking forward to reasonably priced beer and wine. I'm looking forward to easy access to mountains and lakes and hundreds of km of cycle trails. I'm looking forward to no more perpetual sand and dust everywhere and breathing high quotient of sand in the air. I'm looking forward to being able to speak more frankly and openly, where I don't have to always be slightly worried, or at least aware, of offending locals and the consequences of that. 

I will be paying shocking amounts of taxes. And the winters will be long and depressing. Germany has its own problems, of course, and the future is a bit more interesting than we would have thought a decade ago. Really, at the end of the day it's mainly that after 12 great years in the UAE (all enjoyable and with no regrets) it's simply time to move on.


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## Chocoholic (Oct 29, 2012)

Winks13 said:


> Cost of living isn't bad here if you don't have kids. People who constantly harp on about how expensive it is often insist on living a certain lifestyle - regular dinners out, a regular maid service, new model cars, etc. You can get by here on a reasonably small amount if you don't get pulled into the 'Dubai lifestyle'. Personally, I'm living on a budget of 10,000 dhs per month at the moment which includes everything. Granted - I'm fairly aggressive with my saving goals but that's the reason you move here - right!?


That's just really rude and a gross assumption!


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## diamantaire (Jan 14, 2015)

If I were you I would head to Barca , as thats where you eventually aim to be, if it is your goal & you can get there why let it go. You might not get the opportunity again. 
Also in Dxb you might or might not climb up the ladder.
If you really are good at what you do you would thrive everywhere.


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## Kostik3000 (Jul 10, 2017)

Barcelona for me, such a great city. Can't really compare it to the collection of gated communities separated by 12 lines motorways in the middle of the dusty desert that somebody has called "city".


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## snowrobin (Mar 2, 2018)

Yep. We’ve decided. No to Dubai. It’s not for us. Barcelona here we come! 
Thank you all for input during this crazy journey of almost two months of umming and ahhing. I certainly have more greys now than I had in Feb!


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## diamantaire (Jan 14, 2015)

Best of luck on ur decision !!


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