# I want to live and work in Spain



## shanie123 (Jul 12, 2015)

Hello everyone on Expat Forum, 

I am new to the forum and have spent the last few weeks researching as much as I can into moving to Spain to work, bringing my partner with me. 

We live in the UK and are both aged 23 and we are looking for a change of scenery before we have responsibilities that stop us from moving abroad. 

We both have a small amount conversational Spanish speaking experience with the idea to study it further when we live en Espana. 

Those of you have done this what advice can you give? Where do we start? What do we need to consider?

what are the pro's and con's of our decision to give up our lifes in UK to move to Spain?

I'd look all advice you can offer in both looking for work and places to live and what to expect. 

Thanks everyone, 

Shanie


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## 90199 (Mar 21, 2010)

Your biggest hurdle is finding work, here there is 37% unemployment. 

However if you have an income it is a fantastic lifestyle.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

To be blunt, now isnt a good time! Mass unemployment, the need to have an employment contract to entitle you to healthcare and of course the need for income will be your main hurdle

Jo xxx


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## davexf (Jan 26, 2009)

Hepa said:


> Your biggest hurdle is finding work, here there is 37% unemployment.
> 
> However if you have an income it is a fantastic lifestyle.


Hola

Please correct me if I am wrong but the unemployment figure for under 25's is around 66%? It is 37% for over 25's ?

The OP is 23 !!! 

Davexf


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

davexf said:


> Hola
> 
> Please correct me if I am wrong but the unemployment figure for under 25's is around 66%? It is 37% for over 25's ?
> 
> ...


Hepa isnt on the mainland. Evenso, unemployment is high. On a positive note, try looking thru this to get some ideas of jobs available - maybe even apply, but remember you must have an employment contract Recruitment | Situations vacant | myservicesdirectory.com | surinenglish.com

Jo xxx


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

You might think, Oh I can live on say, €300 a month, BUT the authorities require you to prove that you have at least €600 per person, per month going into a Spanish bank account (sometimes they also require you to have €6,000 in capital in a Spanish bank). You will also need to show that you have full coverage (i.e. no co-pay) health insurance until you get a proper job with a contract and are paying Social Security. It is no use suggesting that you will do anything (wash dishes, bar work, etc.) since 
a) so will the millions of unemployed Spaniards (there is no benefits street here) if they can find those jobs
b) you don't speak fluent Spanish, they do
c) working on the black doesn't pay social security and unless you have worked more than a year paying-in you won't get any unemployment when the job folds for the winter.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

'I want to live and work in Spain'......
As do six million unemployed Spaniards.
'Conversational' Spanish is of little use in the job market.
Sorry but not a feasible project.


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## shanie123 (Jul 12, 2015)

Hello all

I really appreciate the advice and lots of help that I can't get elsewhere. 

I am a realist so Im not gonna just dive in when there are lots of obstacles. 

I'll gove it a good think and will still listen to further advice so keep it coming 

Shanie


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

shanie123 said:


> Hello all
> 
> I really appreciate the advice and lots of help that I can't get elsewhere.
> 
> ...


We can give advice but not help, not in the sense of finding jobs which is the key factor in deciding to move anywhere in the world.
Frankly, you have been given the most relevant advice, which is that your chances of finding work are very slim indeed.
There's not much more to be said because everything hinges on the work front.
It seems that many people in the UK don't know much about the practicalities of life in Spain, the everyday things which are the most important and which don't arise when you're on holiday. It's not their fault, it's down to those silly programmes about Spain and other countries that make everything seem so easy - buy the house, buy the ticket...easy-peasy. Real life isn't like that unless you have a secure, adequate income, whether as a retired person on a good income or you have work of one kind or another. Then, as Hepa says, life is indeed good.
However.....compared to the UK, Spain is a harsh country. Unemployment is high although decreasing slightly but pay is low and hours are long. Of course, Spanish is the language used by commerce and officialdom, no matter how many British, German etc. immigrants may be around. Speaking a little or even a lot of Spanish isn't that much use if you can't understand the rapid flow of Spanish you get in return...and understanding is the hardest part, putting a few words together is easy.
The benefits system here is contribution based so until you have put in you can't take out. You can't bring most UK benefits with you so if in the UK you got Child Benefit, Housing Benefit, Working Family Tax Credit...forget about it. They don't exist here.
Wages are low, hours are long and employment protection laws exist on paper and are almost impossible to enforce. I know someone whose employer refuses to pay him if he takes a holiday. He can do nothing....there are other unemployed people waiting to fill his shoes and he has a family to support.
Sunshine, sand and sea aren't really free...what in life is? The sun doesn't always shine in Spain, it can be bitterly cold, colder than in the UK. It snows....I'm on the coast where we rarely go below 10C in winter but a bare 30km inland it can freeze and snow.
I love my life here but I don't need to work and I have enough to live the way I choose. There is no way I would consider moving to Spain to find work even as a fairly well-paid professional.
My partner and I chose to spend our working lives in the UK so we had enough to enjoy a good lifestyle whilst of working age yet could save enough to retire abroad when we'd had enough of our working lives.
That was the most sensible choice for us and it may well be for you too.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

We are a household of three adults and two small dogs. We own our house, mortgage-free. I am a OAP, my m-i-l is a 84 year old gringa but gets no pension. SWMBO works as an English teacher for a local academy. We worked like $^**%£%$ in UK to be able to sell our flat, buy this house and move here. We don't live the life of Riley but we are comfortable. Getting to that situation is no free-lunch - you have to work (d*mned hard) for it.


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

I am another believer in spending your working life in the UK (or another country where jobs, especially well paid jobs, are more plentiful than Spain).

We sold up and gave up our jobs to move here when we were aged 50 and 57, I would not have dreamed of doing so before we were in a position to live in Spain without needing to work until our pensions became payable, even though we'd owned our house in Spain for almost 4 years before we could afford to make it our permanent home.

If you are financially independent, can do the sort of job where you can work remotely, can get a properly contracted job with a major employer (people who come to work for multi-national companies, for example) or can work elsewhere on a shift pattern and spend your time off here, then Spain is a great place to live. If not, it's a very hard struggle.


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## Helenameva (Aug 15, 2014)

Lynn R said:


> I am another believer in spending your working life in the UK (or another country where jobs, especially well paid jobs, are more plentiful than Spain).
> 
> We sold up and gave up our jobs to move here when we were aged 50 and 57, I would not have dreamed of doing so before we were in a position to live in Spain without needing to work until our pensions became payable, even though we'd owned our house in Spain for almost 4 years before we could afford to make it our permanent home.
> 
> If you are financially independent, can do the sort of job where you can work remotely, can get a properly contracted job with a major employer (people who come to work for multi-national companies, for example) or can work elsewhere on a shift pattern and spend your time off here, then Spain is a great place to live. If not, it's a very hard struggle.


I don't disagree with the essence of what you say, but I would like to say a lot depends on what one wants from life. I mean, my work / life balance is infinitely better here and despite the fact I earn a pittance compared to my earnings in the UK, I don't need to earn as much here and it's not always the financial rewards that matters.


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## SteveScot (Feb 11, 2013)

Helenameva said:


> I don't disagree with the essence of what you say, but I would like to say a lot depends on what one wants from life. I mean, my work / life balance is infinitely better here and despite the fact I earn a pittance compared to my earnings in the UK, I don't need to earn as much here and it's not always the financial rewards that matters.


That's a good point. I've often daydreamed about moving out full time, and more so now that I would have accommodation mortgage free. I think I'm quite happy living a modest existence. I prefer days at the beach or exploring places over shiny things that cost money. That said, one can't live on fresh air, and it's the fact that I would still need some sort of work, to top up rental income from the UK, that always has me wary of making the jump.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

SteveScot said:


> That's a good point. I've often daydreamed about moving out full time, and more so now that I would have accommodation mortgage free. I think I'm quite happy living a modest existence. I prefer days at the beach or exploring places over shiny things that cost money. That said, one can't live on fresh air, and it's the fact that I would still need some sort of work, to top up rental income from the UK, that always has me wary of making the jump.


Well, quite. There's no getting away from the fact that without some secure income life in Spain as anywhere else will not be enjoyable, period.
I don't think anyone has referred to 'financial gain' when discussing moving to Spain.
What has to be pointed out is that whatever lifestyle you choose requires funding and unless you are retired, that means a job of some kind.
It should also be noted that movingto Spain, however 'modest' an existence you may choose, is, when all is said and done, a consumer choice just as much as buying a house, car or washing machine and like all consumer choices, has to be paid for.
It's possible to spend days at the beach, wandering about and exploring the varied and beautiful British countryside too and it's possible to live in the UK without basing your life on buying 'shiny' things. life is what you make it wherever and one person's choice is as good as another's.
However you live in Spain, in palace or piso, as you so rightly say, you can't live on fresh air.


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

I like others agree, unless you are offering something exceptional to the Job Market, or like others you are happy to live on a lot less, this is neither the time or the place IMHO

We are in our fifties, took early retirement and live on a very very limited budget. It suits us, because we have been there and done that, so to speak.

If I was in my 20's I would not be content with the lifestyle I have now, there are no support systems here, many young people are out of work, because there is very little work. In my 20's I wanted to go out, have fun, travel, that all takes money, even trips to the bars take money

I am interested as to why so many young people want to live and work here, when the news for the past few years has been so negative re Jobs economy etc. What is the big appeal of a country with no jobs and not many prospects for the young. The world is huge, I would rather save my money and start travelling . So why did you choose Spain as opposed to other countries


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## SteveScot (Feb 11, 2013)

mrypg9 said:


> It's possible to spend days at the beach, wandering about and exploring the varied and beautiful British countryside too and it's possible to live in the UK without basing your life on buying 'shiny' things. life is what you make it wherever and one person's choice is as good as another's.
> However you live in Spain, in palace or piso, as you so rightly say, you can't live on fresh air.


You are quite correct  
And I think to some extent I am already doing that. I did the shiny things bit in my 20's and 30's, now I don't see the point. The result being that I am able to save to fund 'the dream' haha.

I've crunched the numbers, as our American cousins like to say, and would only need a couple of days work a week for it to work, rather than the full time job in the UK, but then... would even a couple of days work a week be available?
I would rather have the financial cushion already in place, and not have the NEED to work, but I am a long way off from retirement age, so there will be a lot of saving still to do! :fingerscrossed:


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

SteveScot said:


> You are quite correct
> And I think to some extent I am already doing that. I did the shiny things bit in my 20's and 30's, now I don't see the point. The result being that I am able to save to fund 'the dream' haha.
> 
> I've crunched the numbers, as our American cousins like to say, and would only need a couple of days work a week for it to work, rather than the full time job in the UK, but then... would even a couple of days work a week be available?
> I would rather have the financial cushion already in place, and not have the NEED to work, but I am a long way off from retirement age, so there will be a lot of saving still to do! :fingerscrossed:


I know what you mean. When we first thought about coming over, we considered buying a more expensive property and doing holiday lets.................then we woke up

cheaper property, finances secure in bank. no stress about HAVING to get income. Its not easy but its not a stretch either. In the 15 months YES 15 months we have been here, I have never felt like we have gone without. Sometimes fate pops in though. I have been offered 3 jobs since xmas. One of which I start at the end of August the other September..................I am working not because I have to, but because it helps with Health cover and trips back to UK to see Grandson, plus it gets me out and about and mixing with more Spanish helping me integrate even more


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

SteveScot said:


> You are quite correct
> And I think to some extent I am already doing that. I did the shiny things bit in my 20's and 30's, now I don't see the point. The result being that I am able to save to fund 'the dream' haha.
> 
> I've crunched the numbers, as our American cousins like to say, and would only need a couple of days work a week for it to work, rather than the full time job in the UK, but then... would even a couple of days work a week be available?
> I would rather have the financial cushion already in place, and not have the NEED to work, but I am a long way off from retirement age, so there will be a lot of saving still to do! :fingerscrossed:


One day, my OH took a break from managing her business and we took a friend's dog for a walk in the woods. We just decided, literallyon the spot, to sell up, retire and move to Prague. Within three months we were gone for good. We could have worked on, made more money...our decision was not to. But...we had enough to live the way we wanted, not extravagantly but comfortably, with no worries.
One big lifestyle change is that we no longer have the urge or need to drive ''posh' newish cars. We are very happy driving elderly LRs and don't worry in the slightest about dents or scrapes.


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## SteveScot (Feb 11, 2013)

cambio said:


> I know what you mean. When we first thought about coming over, we considered buying a more expensive property and doing holiday lets.................then we woke up
> 
> cheaper property, finances secure in bank. no stress about HAVING to get income. Its not easy but its not a stretch either. In the 15 months YES 15 months we have been here, I have never felt like we have gone without. Sometimes fate pops in though. I have been offered 3 jobs since xmas. One of which I start at the end of August the other September..................I am working not because I have to, but because it helps with Health cover and trips back to UK to see Grandson, plus it gets me out and about and mixing with more Spanish helping me integrate even more


You have hit the nail on the head! I would most likely still 'want' to do some sort of work if I did make the move, possibly volunteering. It is the fact of being 'tied' to the job 5 days a week for long hours that I dislike at the moment. That time is not your own... However, on the flip-side, I am making hay while the sun shines and it may take 5 years or it may take 10, but I will get out to my wee house in Spain full time.


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## SteveScot (Feb 11, 2013)

mrypg9 said:


> One day, my OH took a break from managing her business and we took a friend's dog for a walk in the woods. We just decided, literallyon the spot, to sell up, retire and move to Prague. Within three months we were gone for good. We could have worked on, made more money...our decision was not to. But...we had enough to live the way we wanted, not extravagantly but comfortably, with no worries.
> One big lifestyle change is that we no longer have the urge or need to drive ''posh' newish cars. We are very happy driving elderly LRs and don't worry in the slightest about dents or scrapes.


I always follow your posts with feelings of slight jealousy, coupled with 'well done'...

The driving old cars thing I can relate to too... I have a van in the UK as it suits me for DIY projects and a 16 year old car in Spain that has no fancy extras... you want air con? Open the window haha. It's liberating in a way to be able to pare expenses down and live a more modest lifestyle.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

SteveScot said:


> I always follow your posts with feelings of slight jealousy, coupled with 'well done'...
> 
> The driving old cars thing I can relate to too... I have a van in the UK as it suits me for DIY projects and a 16 year old car in Spain that has no fancy extras... you want air con? Open the window haha. It's liberating in a way to be able to pare expenses down and live a more modest lifestyle.


I think we have been very lucky and I am thankful every day.
'Modest lifestyle'.....hmmm.. Not sure what that means. When we told our lawyer we had a 'modest' lifestyle she guffawed...because we live in a big house.
But...it's rented, all we own in the world are books and furniture etc., we don't frequent posh restaurants or clubs, never sit drinking in bars...OH doesn't drink at all.
Our pleasures are reading, watching football, our dogs, being with friends and each other.
If we have money in the bank when we die it goes to Dogs Trust UK and our large collection of books will go to Estepona Municipal Public Library, something we eecided on after my Philistine son sourly noted in response to my request that they not be burned that he wasn't going to build another f***** wing on his house to accommodate them - there are quite a large number collected over many years.
'Modest' is an elastic concept, really. You could live modestly in a palace and extravagantly in a studio flat.


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## Liana12433 (Jul 1, 2015)

I amDecember, this is not an easy choice, but the work I have is in agriculture/livestock and my skill set is not here, so hopefully we can get established. We will be near Burgos in the Northern part of Spain. We are all aware of the challenge and the road ahead will not be paved with gold, I have emigrated before and understand how this works. Yes Spain is in the EU but in practice they can cherry pick the laws to suit. The company I am working with have been in business for 50 nyears, and my skills will help them increase production in their farms. I have to re take my driving test so if any one can recommend a driving school to do this in English including the theory on line I would appreciate this.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

We found that the greatest benefit of moving to Spain was getting rid of STRESS. We aren't beach people and there are fabulously scenic parts of the UK just as there are in Spain, but what we definitely don't have in Spain compared with what we had in UK is stress. Even the traffic here is negligible by comparison. Spaniards are noisy by comparison with some Brits but it is still quite peaceful here especially not listening to the constant rumble of traffic. I have a form of deafness that was caused by loud noises starting with one of Hitler's V2s going off about 150 yds away so I find noise unpleasant to the point of being very stressful.


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

Helenameva said:


> I don't disagree with the essence of what you say, but I would like to say a lot depends on what one wants from life. I mean, my work / life balance is infinitely better here and despite the fact I earn a pittance compared to my earnings in the UK, I don't need to earn as much here and it's not always the financial rewards that matters.


Oh, I live on a pittance too compared to my earnings in the UK and that doesn't bother me one bit, I'm far happier now. If you can get a "real" job in Spain you don't need to earn as much anyway, because the cost of many things especially housing is so much lower.

However, it's the getting of that "real" job that's the problem. I've met so many people (Spanish as well as British) who've been working (on and off because they can only get temporary jobs) for a few euros an hour, cash in hand so of course they don't have any entitlement to paro, or health cover, nor are they building up any pension entitlement for when they get older. If employers will give them a contract at all, it's very common for it only to be for the bare minimum of hours, and any hours they work over and above that are paid in cash in the proverbial brown envelope. So again, it affects the benefits they are entitled to in bad times and their eventual pension. A lot of people have problems because their employer doesn't pay them on time or worse still doesn't pay them at all. It leaves people desperately worried about how they're going to pay the electricity bill, for example, and I just saw no point in swapping a well paid job in the UK for that kind of life.

Work/life balance was definitely what was lacking in my life in the UK, though, it was all work and no life. What I cherish more than anything now is my freedom, I can do what I like when I like and that's precious. Maybe I'm still reacting to that after nearly 9 years because I''ve never had the slightest wish to do any work since coming here (or maybe I'm just lazy and never had the chance to realise it before).


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## Isobella (Oct 16, 2014)

There is a big difference from living modestly to living hand to mouth. Too low and quality of life suffers whichever country you are in.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Isobella said:


> There is a big difference from living modestly to living hand to mouth. Too low and quality of life suffers whichever country you are in.


Well said. What's so praiseworthy about living 'modestly' anyway? If I felt like dressing myself in Versace, adorning my person with jewels, driving a Lamborghini, bathing in asses' milk...what's it got to do with anyone as long as I'm not asking them to foot the bill? 
Besides, many people who claim to live 'modestly' do so in great style, I've noticed...hair shirt by Hugo Boss?

Maybe I was lucky but I can't say my job was arduous or stressful....boring is the word I'd use. It was definitely otherwise for OH, though...but even then we managed to enjoy life. It wasn't all stress and worry.


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## AllHeart (Nov 22, 2013)

About 90% of the threads on this forum speak of the financial crisis in Spain, especially unemployment. This is no secret in the news either. So I sometimes wonder if people post on this forum just to wind people up by saying things like, I don't have a job yet, what's the job market like, I'm willing to turn my hand at anything, I don't know Spanish but I'll learn to get a job, how's the construction industry, and the like.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Its better to ask than to just do it tho. I like to think of the forum as a first step into acquiring knowledge before doing it

Jo xxx


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

On the other side of the coin, there are those who say that they find it difficult to make ends meet on 40k€ but then you look at their lifestyle - they have a huge villa in a "highly desirable" area that attracts an IBI of 1500€ p.a., a mortgage or rent that costs them in excess of 1.5k€ per month, they have their own pool which costs ?? € p.a. to maintain, they dine out at a good restaurant almost every day with a daily bill of 50€, they regularly go out in the evening and pay a bar bill well in excess of 50€ most evenings. Oops, forgot the two cars that cost who knows how much to run. and they aren't happy!

We lead a quiet-ish lifestyle, take only two holidays a year, mostly eat at home (we like good food that we can trust 100%), run a modest MPV, are quite content on maybe a third as much. An evening's entertainment (apart from being at home) is to visit with friends or sit out in the street with good neighbours chewing the fat, while consuming a variety of home-made snacks washed down with tinto de verano.


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## VFR (Dec 23, 2009)

Getting like facebook on here with all the social petting.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

baldilocks said:


> On the other side of the coin, there are those who say that they find it difficult to make ends meet on 40k€ but then you look at their lifestyle - they have a huge villa in a "highly desirable" area that attracts an IBI of 1500€ p.a., a mortgage or rent that costs them in excess of 1.5k€ per month, they have their own pool which costs ?? € p.a. to maintain, they dine out at a good restaurant almost every day with a daily bill of 50€, they regularly go out in the evening and pay a bar bill well in excess of 50€ most evenings. Oops, forgot the two cars that cost who knows how much to run. and they aren't happy!
> 
> We lead a quiet-ish lifestyle, take only two holidays a year, mostly eat at home (we like good food that we can trust 100%), run a modest MPV, are quite content on maybe a third as much. An evening's entertainment (apart from being at home) is to visit with friends or sit out in the street with good neighbours chewing the fat, while consuming a variety of home-made snacks washed down with tinto de verano.


Well, good for you. You're happy. But why assume that people with a higher maintenance life style than you aren't equally happy?
We live ina large villa with IBI in excess of 2000€ per annum which our landlord pays. We have two old 4x4 vehicles...one each. They and our pool are very cheap to run. Our rent and utility costs run to 1500€ a month.
But we don't find it difficult to make ends meet, we are very happy, we eat out once or twice a month, we enjoy the same things as you albeit in slightly more costly surroundings.
There are no,rules about how to live in Spain. You cut your coat according to your cloth and your style preference. No- one should be made to feel guilty for enjoying a high maintenance lifestyle here just as no- one should think,they have earned a halo for living frugally.
The important thing is simply this: live within your means.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

mrypg9 said:


> The important thing is simply this: live within your means.


That is much of what I wanted to say, but you say it better. The fictional person on 40k pa and can't manage is unhappy because he doesn't live within his means whereas you, and we, do, so we are content.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

baldilocks said:


> That is much of what I wanted to say, but you say it better. The fictional person on 40k pa and can't manage is unhappy because he doesn't live within his means whereas you, and we, do, so we are content.


My 'problem' is that growing up in a household which nowadays would be considered the utter dregs of poverty (although we ate well, were dressed adequately, had plenty of soap and water, something my grandmother considered as important as food). So it's hard for me to take the way I live now for granted...at times it seems unreal. When we decided we needed another car as we do different things and public transport is a long walk away, it never occurred to me to buy a new or nearly new one although we could afford to do so. I've got clothes I wear for years and discard, sometimes quite literally when holes and rips appear through sheer wear and tear. I buy loads of books via abebooks or amazon but always used, for a few p usually...
I can't preach against consumerism or living lavishly because I grew up amongst people who had no chance in life of getting their hands on anything more than the basics. I only wish my mum could have enjoyed a more lavish lifestyle...but then she was content with her little maisonette and her ornaments and tv.

As we are almost of the same generation I think you will know what I'm trying to say, Baldy. The das thing though is that it seems that for many people, having the 'shiny things' hasn't brought more happiness as the old values are slowly dying out.


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## AllHeart (Nov 22, 2013)

I love that expression that goes something like this... Money can't buy you happiness, but money can buy you the perfect misery.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

AllHeart said:


> I love that expression that goes something like this... Money can't buy you happiness, but money can buy you the perfect misery.


Yup. But I prefer the Neil Diamond line: 'Money talks...but it don't sing and dance and it don't walk'.
My partner and friends are beyond material value but I have seen far too many people with unchosen 'modest' lifestyles to give brownie points for choosing to live liin a 'modest' way.
Millions of people all over the world do not have the luxury of 'lifestyle choice'. They live a basic life void of material goods because they have no option. Compared to them, no UK immigrant who has chosen to live in Spain truly has a 'modest' lifestyle.
I'm so glad that my life has not been one of hardship like that of my mother and her grandmother before her. I'm glad I am able to freely choose how I spend my money. 
I'm glad my son's life is immensely more rewarding in material terms than mine has been and I'm glad that the same can be said for most working people who are now, most of them if not all, able to enjoy some of the 'nicer' things of life previously available only to the rich.
People often get the famous Scriptural quote wrong: not 'Money is the root of all evil' but *'The love of money* is the root of all evil'. Money can be put to good or evil use. It depends on s/he who possesses it.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

I'm not really a ND fan...


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

mrypg9 said:


> My 'problem' is that growing up in a household which nowadays would be considered the utter dregs of poverty (although we ate well, were dressed adequately, had plenty of soap and water, something my grandmother considered as important as food). So it's hard for me to take the way I live now for granted...at times it seems unreal. When we decided we needed another car as we do different things and public transport is a long walk away, it never occurred to me to buy a new or nearly new one although we could afford to do so. I've got clothes I wear for years and discard, sometimes quite literally when holes and rips appear through sheer wear and tear. I buy loads of books via abebooks or amazon but always used, for a few p usually...
> I can't preach against consumerism or living lavishly because I grew up amongst people who had no chance in life of getting their hands on anything more than the basics. I only wish my mum could have enjoyed a more lavish lifestyle...but then she was content with her little maisonette and her ornaments and tv.
> 
> As we are almost of the same generation I think you will know what I'm trying to say, Baldy. The das thing though is that it seems that for many people, having the 'shiny things' hasn't brought more happiness as the old values are slowly dying out.


We are alike. I have my favourite cardigan, it is shabby has spots of paint on it (it is navy and the paint is white) I have had it almost 25 years (bought in BHS back in the early 90s). The elbows wore out but with a patch on, it is quite wearable and, to me, seems warmer than its maroon twin bought at the same time. I do get told off when I wear it out in the street with nothing over it, especially with a pair of trousers similarly decorated. Los españoles me preguntan, "¿Estás pintando?" "¡Sí, claro!"

But I am content and comfortable. Our modest lifestyle now enables us to invest in a stairlift (for cash!) for the benefit of the suegra, whose joints make stairs difficult.


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## AllHeart (Nov 22, 2013)

mrypg9 said:


> Yup. But I prefer the Neil Diamond line: 'Money talks...but it don't sing and dance and it don't walk'.


I'm a huge Neil Diamond fan, and that was my first song of the day. What a way to start the day. Thank you. 




mrypg9 said:


> People often get the famous Scriptural quote wrong: not 'Money is the root of all evil' but *'The love of money* is the root of all evil'. Money can be put to good or evil use. It depends on s/he who possesses it.


I'm with you on that one! Of course money can be used for good, like feeding the poor, building hospitals, building schools, reconstructing towns after natural disasters, buying clothes for the poor..... 

It's like the expression, 'power corrupts.' That's a ridiculous blanket statement, I think, because power can also be used to do good things. Like you say, it's a matter of who possesses it. 

Or that expression, 'the road to hell is paved with good intention.' That's ridiculous too, to my mind, because the road to heaven can also be paved with good intention.

There are so many excellent examples worldwide of people using power, money and good intentions to change the world for the better. Like this forum. U2 is another good example, I think...


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

baldilocks said:


> We are alike. I have my favourite cardigan, it is shabby has spots of paint on it (it is navy and the paint is white) I have had it almost 25 years (bought in BHS back in the early 90s). The elbows wore out but with a patch on, it is quite wearable and, to me, seems warmer than its maroon twin bought at the same time. I do get told off when I wear it out in the street with nothing over it, especially with a pair of trousers similarly decorated. Los españoles me preguntan, "¿Estás pintando?" "¡Sí, claro!"
> 
> But I am content and comfortable. Our modest lifestyle now enables us to invest in a stairlift (for cash!) for the benefit of the suegra, whose joints make stairs difficult.


I had a pair of Levi shorts, of a length suitable for a person of my advanced years..I guess Allheart would call them Bermudas. I bought them in NYC in 1997 for $9.99 in one of those discount outlets. Last year I reluctantly threw them out. They were paper thin with rips and tears through sheer wear'n' tear. I was devastated to lose them. It's hard to find shorts suitable for the more mature - i.e. Knee length- but I was delighted to find men's shorts in the Carrefour sales, of all places, which are just whst is needed. 
I can stroll around in cool comfort without frightening the burros.
I expect them to last at least as long as I do, twenty years minimum.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

mrypg9 said:


> I had a pair of Levi shorts, of a length suitable for a person of my advanced years..I guess Allheart would call them Bermudas. I bought them in NYC in 1997 for $9.99 in one of those discount outlets. Last year I reluctantly threw them out. They were paper thin with rips and tears through sheer wear'n' tear. I was devastated to lose them. It's hard to find shorts suitable for the more mature - i.e. Knee length- but I was delighted to find men's shorts in the Carrefour sales, of all places, which are just whst is needed.
> I can stroll around in cool comfort without frightening the burros.
> I expect them to last at least as long as I do, twenty years minimum.


Of course, much depends on the length of one's thighs. I can't abide those shorts that come down just to one's knees, the fabric (or the synthetic thread they use to keep up the hems or for the oversewing) starts to chafe that sensitive area behind the knee itself, especially on the tendons so I prefer mine just a little shorter. I have recently been taking up issues with "Cotton Traders" - their comfort fit trousers depend on one having 'love handles' to hang on so they are uncomfortable if one is not so upholstered.

Have you noticed how modern trousers and skirts have changed. The pleats at the front used to turn inwards so that the front crease lay nicely, now they turn out, tending flatten the front - not smart and no additional comfort.

They just don't seem to have tailors anymore, they don't even know how to roll the revers on a jacket - one the first basic lessons in tailoring. Let's face it Mary, we weren't designed for this modern throw-away society, unless it is to be what gets thrown away


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## Simon22 (May 22, 2015)

I love your wording, moreover I agree with you. My wife thinks I am unfashionable when in fact I am just getting value for money from my clothes.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Simon22 said:


> I love your wording, moreover I agree with you. My wife thinks I am unfashionable when in fact I am just getting value for money from my clothes.


SWMBO considers me unfashionable as well, but I dress for MY comfort, not for the peace of mind of others who think I should dress according to a fashion and they would never understand that the fashion I dress to, is that of the 40s and 50s!

In the summer like to wear short-sleeved shirts and ones with two pockets on the front (one for my eyedrops and the other for the dogs' poo-bags) and have sufficient width for my increasing girth. I can only get these in a pilot's-shirt style with epaulettes so I get them from an Army and Navy surplus store and, even better, they don't have those stupid button-down collars.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Simon22 said:


> I love your wording, moreover I agree with you. My wife thinks I am unfashionable when in fact I am just getting value for money from my clothes.


It's more classy to be stylish than to be merely fashionable.
P.S .that does not apply ifyou are wearing flares


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## VFR (Dec 23, 2009)

Button down collars are smarter and tend to keep the collar in shape, this will stop you looking like you have 2 wings flapping in the breeze. 

Assuming the top button is not done up.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

baldilocks said:


> Of course, much depends on the length of one's thighs. I can't abide those shorts that come down just to one's knees, the fabric (or the synthetic thread they use to keep up the hems or for the oversewing) starts to chafe that sensitive area behind the knee itself, especially on the tendons so I prefer mine just a little shorter. I have recently been taking up issues with "Cotton Traders" - their comfort fit trousers depend on one having 'love handles' to hang on so they are uncomfortable if one is not so upholstered.
> 
> Have you noticed how modern trousers and skirts have changed. The pleats at the front used to turn inwards so that the front crease lay nicely, now they turn out, tending flatten the front - not smart and no additional comfort.
> 
> They just don't seem to have tailors anymore, they don't even know how to roll the revers on a jacket - one the first basic lessons in tailoring. Let's face it Mary, we weren't designed for this modern throw-away society, unless it is to be what gets thrown away


I once appeared in front of Sandra in a shortish skirt only to be told sternly that my knees should never be on public view. My new shorts sit comfortably just below the knee. Only minor drawback is that they have a button fly. I was so pleased that I got four pairs in navy, dark navy, lime green and a sort of pinky peach colour. Very fetching and €15. Women's shorts these days are, indeed, short. Great for the young and slim..


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## Simon22 (May 22, 2015)

I am wearing v-neck t-shirts and cargo shorts which I almost threw away when I left Aus. not expecting to need them in the UK. Now it is all I wear. The trouble is I have lost weight and will have to replace them soon. 
I used to insist on shirts with pockets for work but I'm just shoving everything in my laptop bag now so the pockets are not needed.


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

mrypg9 said:


> I was so pleased that I got four pairs in navy, dark navy, lime green and a sort of pinky peach colour. Very fetching and €15. Women's shorts these days are, indeed, short. Great for the young and slim..


I know how you feel - longer shorts are really hard to find these days. At one time I could always buy golf shorts which were long enough but they seem to have been superseded by skirts, must be the fashion in golfing circles. I have a favourite pair from a Finnish company called Karelia, they must be 10 years old at least and still have some years of wear left in them, I hope. I don't think the company exists any more.

I don't think men's shorts would fit me as they probably wouldn't suit my shape (v small waist). I'm going to get lots of pairs of trousers made when we go to Thailand next winter as I find it hard to buy them to fit properly too, so I may get a couple of pairs of knee length shorts made at the same time.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

I find Cotton Traders to be good and they will send to Spain:

Womens Trousers & Shorts Collection | Cotton Traders
Mens Shorts, Trousers and Chinos | Cotton Traders

With the men's version, just sew up the fly front


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