# Help needed ASAP! Husband won't let us leave



## milkshake2044 (Mar 23, 2009)

Hi for lots of reasons I've decided to leave Dubai with my 2 kids. Prob is my child residency visa has expired a month ago. According to hubby the papers are being processed but I still have the passport
I tried to leave the country this week but at immigration was informed the sponsor- my hubby/ has to come and cancel or renew the visa. My prob is that my husband does not want us to go. What can I do to get my kids and myself out the country without his help? We are all uk citizens

Feel like we are totally stuck here


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## xxxxxxxxJonzie (Feb 22, 2014)

Yikes...if I'm not mistaken (and I could be wrong) the "sponsor" has to cancel or renew their visa's. It's easy to get into this country, but even harder to leave if documents are not in order. Damn, best of luck.


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## QOFE (Apr 28, 2013)

Have you tried to speak to BCAF? It's a charity helping British citizens in distress in Dubai. 
BCAF


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## TallyHo (Aug 21, 2011)

Speak to the British embassy.

The laws here are quite strict about the father's ability to prevent the mother and children leaving, regardless of the passports. If you're Muslim, it's even harder.

If you're a white British family and your husband is acting like an a***hole then try to put pressure on him via his family in the UK.


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## celticcavegirl (Oct 18, 2012)

Can you make up a reason that your kids residency visa has to be renewed ASAP? Something to do with the school? Medical/insurance reason?


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## Safwanish (Jan 29, 2014)

If you have to leave without getting their visa renewed, you can do that. I believe there is a 30 days grace period after your residence or employment visa is expired. if it's more then that, you are fined 75 aed for first day and 25 aed for subsequent days. (?)

Get a ticket home and travel. It might cost you a bit in over-stay fines for your kids who have had their visa expired for more then a month.


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## milkshake2044 (Mar 23, 2009)

Safwanish said:


> If you have to leave without getting their visa renewed, you can do that. I believe there is a 30 days grace period after your residence or employment visa is expired. if it's more then that, you are fined 75 aed for first day and 25 aed for subsequent days. (?)
> 
> Get a ticket home and travel. It might cost you a bit in over-stay fines for your kids who have had their visa expired for more then a month.


I tried to leave and at the airport they told me they needed the sponsor to cancel the visa and to come down to the immigration dept. the sponsor is my husband and he won't do it


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## milkshake2044 (Mar 23, 2009)

celticcavegirl said:


> Can you make up a reason that your kids residency visa has to be renewed ASAP? Something to do with the school? Medical/insurance reason?



He won't believe that as he does all the paper work. Can't believe I am actually stuck here and have no rights as their mother. Just want to leave and never come back!


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## TallyHo (Aug 21, 2011)

Go

To

The 

British

Embassy

I cannot tell you what they will do for you but going to the embassy is your first step. And you must do it first thing Sunday morning.



milkshake2044 said:


> He won't believe that as he does all the paper work. Can't believe I am actually stuck here and have no rights as their mother. Just want to leave and never come back!


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## saraswat (Apr 28, 2012)

Oh and please don't forget *only* try and have the extended family / your side of the family get involved and apply any pressure on your husband, if you are *white/caucasian*. 

Being any other race or ethnicity would certainly preclude you trying to get help from family members, that is something that is reserved only to the caucasian's among us ... 


p.s: the things that get put across the forum sometimes honestly do astound me ...


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## TallyHo (Aug 21, 2011)

Hi Saraswat,

I think your post was probably addressed to what I wrote above. Maybe some of the terminology I used was misleading but having spent some years in the UAE I've seen how the laws can be applied differently depending on whether you're a Muslim or not. The UAE government is less likely to want to be dragged into child custody disputes if the expat family is not Muslim (whether they're white or black or South Asian British expats - sorry for this). If the family is a British Muslim family, the authorities are more likely to be strict in applying Sharia law to the situation regardless of the origins of their passports.

One way or another she really does need to speak to the British Embassy as soon as possible. 




saraswat said:


> Oh and please don't forget *only* try and have the extended family / your side of the family get involved and apply any pressure on your husband, if you are *white/caucasian*.
> 
> Being any other race or ethnicity would certainly preclude you trying to get help from family members, that is something that is reserved only to the caucasian's among us ...
> 
> ...


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## saraswat (Apr 28, 2012)

TallyHo said:


> Hi Saraswat,
> 
> I think your post was probably addressed to what I wrote above. Maybe some of the terminology I used was misleading but having spent some years in the UAE I've seen how the laws can be applied differently depending on whether you're a Muslim or not. The UAE government is less likely to want to be dragged into child custody disputes if the expat family is not Muslim (whether they're white or black or South Asian British expats - sorry for this). If the family is a British Muslim family, the authorities are more likely to be strict in applying Sharia law to the situation regardless of the origins of their passports.
> 
> One way or another she really does need to speak to the British Embassy as soon as possible.


Hi TallyHo, 

Yes, you are right, it was addressed to what you wrote. I have spent a significant amount of time in the UAE also, probably one of the longest in comparison to members of the forum, so yes I do know what happens here and how laws are applied. 

You would be wrong to assume the UAE government does not/is less likely to be getting involved in custody disputes solely on the basis of the religion/ethnicity. This is evident from quite a few cases highlighted in the press where western non-muslim expats and even south east asian non-muslim expats have faced the same issue OP is facing. 

But, imho, all this is besides the point of the original post that you made. While I agree she should enlist the help of the British embassy (regardless of how much help they might be able to offer), I certainly do not however agree with your contention that if she is a white british national, only then she should look into getting her family's help. 

That is utterly ridiculous (sorry to say) as it basically propogates the idea that the option of getting extended family involved, in order to solve the situation, is only available/useful for the caucasian's among us ...


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## TallyHo (Aug 21, 2011)

I really don't want to drag this out into a debate over the meaning of terminology as it's not going to be helpful to the OP. If I erred in assuming that most non-Muslim British expats in Dubai are white British (which is why I specifically said "white" and it was not deliberately meant exclude other races) then I apologise. 

I have seen a few expats go through divorces here in the UAE and the local authorities were accommodating in allowing the laws of the home countries be applied in those divorces and custody disputes. But I have also seen cases that when a Muslim family is involved, or one of the parents, usually the father, is a Muslim, the UAE government is more insistent in that Sharia law is applied. 

As it is I defer to you and your longer familiarity with this country.



saraswat said:


> Hi TallyHo,
> 
> Yes, you are right, it was addressed to what you wrote. I have spent a significant amount of time in the UAE also, probably one of the longest in comparison to members of the forum, so yes I do know what happens here and how laws are applied.
> 
> ...


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## pamela0810 (Apr 5, 2010)

OP, please could you let us know the outcome of your situation once everything is resolved? I struggle a lot with visa applications, etc for my son because I cannot do anything without the father's permission. So I'm particularly interested to find out how situations like these can be resolved.

Good luck and I do hope everything works out for you.


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## wazza2222 (Sep 7, 2011)

Ahem... Why is it that she should be allowed to take his children away from him without his agreement again? Surely it is not simply because she is 'the mother'??? 
I wonder what his side of the story would be if he had the chance to defend himself on this forum.


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## Beamrider (May 18, 2012)

I second the suggestion to go straight to the embassy and get support.

Worst case scenario, OP could leave the country as soon as husband renews the child residency visa, which should be anyway soon as it expired last month as per first post.

Sad to read about these situations, best of luck to all parties involved.


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## arabianhorse (Nov 13, 2013)

wazza2222 said:


> Ahem... Why is it that she should be allowed to take his children away from him without his agreement again? Surely it is not simply because she is 'the mother'???
> I wonder what his side of the story would be if he had the chance to defend himself on this forum.



Good point. The right thing to do would be to have any custody matters settled amicably in the interest of the kids, failing which settled in a british court.


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## pamela0810 (Apr 5, 2010)

Do we know that the OP's husband is a British citizen?


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## w_man (Apr 16, 2010)

In Canada, when one parent is traveling with the kid(s) without the other parent present, they have to provide a letter from the other parent, giving permission for the child to travel. Doesn't matter if it's the mother or father traveling with the kids alone. This is to avoid one parent doing the runner with the kids.

Doesn't that apply here? Even if the visa issue is resolved for the OP, doesn't she require permission of the father to leave the country? It would only make sense for this to happen - not fair for her to leave with the kids without the father knowing.


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## CrowdedHouse (Feb 22, 2011)

OP needs to go to the embassy and hire a local lawyer that understands the custody laws in the UAE.

I don't agree that mothers should be allowed to run off with the kids if a marriage is failing (of course any form of abuse would change my view). However, if there is abuse, then just like in most other countries, she needs to have it documented so she can legally make the case to leave.

However, we do have to acknowledge that in a very general sense, the UAE legal system in custody matters leans heavily in favor of men. Even the fact that she, herself, needs to have her husband "sign off" on her travel because of her visa expiring. That is, a form of enslavement now isn't it now that she must stay here against her will.


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## twowheelsgood (Feb 21, 2013)

CrowdedHouse said:


> However, we do have to acknowledge that in a very general sense, the UAE legal system in custody matters leans heavily in favor of men. Even the fact that she, herself, needs to have her husband "sign off" on her travel because of her visa expiring. That is, a form of enslavement now isn't it now that she must stay here against her will.


However, we do have to acknowledge that in a very general sense, the UK legal system in custody matters leans heavily in favor of women. (FTFY)

Its not in any way whatsoever a form of enslavement as the children are just as much hers as his and to suggest that simply asking the permission of the other parent equates to enslavement is naive and shows a bias towards the mother having preeminent rights.

FWIW the husband isn't signing off on HER travel but of his children.


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## TallyHo (Aug 21, 2011)

We are all expats here. Frankly, most families in Dubai are here because the husband brought them out here as it's his career that took him here. It's usually the husband who ask their wives to give up their jobs and move away from family and friends in the home country. 

Then once here the husband has all this power over his wife and children? Under the laws here an expat husband can divorce his wife, keep his kids AND push her out of the country by refusing to sponsor her. If the mother wanted to stay here she'd have to find her own job and sponsorship, which is easier said than done especially if the mother's been out of the workforce raising her children (as is the case for so many expat mothers here). 

While I'm not arguing the UK system is perfect, when I look at other people's divorces I'd say at least three quarters of them happened because because of the husband walking out or deciding he was tired of his wife or because he turned into an a***hole. Women are much more likely to work at saving their marriages than the men. 

At the end of the day we're expats here. It's not our home country. Trying to manipulate the laws of this country to serve your end when you're from another country and culturally belong to that country's traditions is much more unfair than anything the UK courts may dish out. If a British marriage breaks up here and the British mother wants to return home, to a country where she is a citizen, the moral imperative is to let her and the children go. If the British ex-husband wants to stay in the UAE, that's his decision, and his alone. 



twowheelsgood said:


> However, we do have to acknowledge that in a very general sense, the UK legal system in custody matters leans heavily in favor of women. (FTFY)
> 
> Its not in any way whatsoever a form of enslavement as the children are just as much hers as his and to suggest that simply asking the permission of the other parent equates to enslavement is naive and shows a bias towards the mother having preeminent rights.
> 
> FWIW the husband isn't signing off on HER travel but of his children.


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## Tropicana (Apr 29, 2010)

twowheelsgood said:


> However, we do have to acknowledge that in a very general sense, the UK legal system in custody matters leans heavily in favor of women. (FTFY)
> 
> Its not in any way whatsoever a form of enslavement as the children are just as much hers as his and to suggest that simply asking the permission of the other parent equates to enslavement is naive and shows a bias towards the mother having preeminent rights.
> 
> FWIW the husband isn't signing off on HER travel but of his children.


You do realize that an expat husband has the power to ensure the wife does not get to see their children after a divorce if he so wills ?

There was a case some time back in Gulf News where a South Asian husband sent back his Central Asian wife and did not allow her to see their children ever again. He _claimed_ she was not a good Muslim, and due to visa laws, he effectively banned his wife from seeing _their_ children because he judged her to be a bad mother?

I would not call it enslavement but another word which escapes me, but it is not significantly worse than enslavement.


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## wazza2222 (Sep 7, 2011)

Tropicana said:


> You do realize that an expat husband has the power to ensure the wife does not get to see their children after a divorce if he so wills ?
> 
> There was a case some time back in Gulf News where a South Asian husband sent back his Central Asian wife and did not allow her to see their children ever again. He _claimed_ she was not a good Muslim, and due to visa laws, he effectively banned his wife from seeing _their_ children because he judged her to be a bad mother?
> 
> I would not call it enslavement but another word which escapes me, but it is not significantly worse than enslavement.


I can't suggest a word for you but an explanation:
The system here is the reverse of the Anglo Saxon one that sees the father disenfranchised at the mother's whim.
They can't have it all their own way EVERYwhere in the world!
If this system is wrong, then the British/NewZealand one is equally wrong.


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## CrowdedHouse (Feb 22, 2011)

twowheelsgood said:


> However, we do have to acknowledge that in a very general sense, the UK legal system in custody matters leans heavily in favor of women. (FTFY)
> 
> Its not in any way whatsoever a form of enslavement as the children are just as much hers as his and to suggest that simply asking the permission of the other parent equates to enslavement is naive and shows a bias towards the mother having preeminent rights.
> 
> FWIW the husband isn't signing off on HER travel but of his children.


I didn't do a compare and contrast between legal systems here and abroad. I only said what is fact here as that's what matters since this is the jurisdiction to which their custody battle would be settled.

But in a general sense, yes, many countries are pro-mother in custody matters. In the case of British mothers in the UAE, this is the reason they would rather relocate to the UK and have their custody battle seen there.

I don't know where you find that I am biased for either parent's right. I actually disagree with this woman (and other women) who do runners in order to get the upperhand in custody battles. I said specifically that I don't think she has the right to run off w/ the kids UNLESS there is abuse or imminent danger to herself/children.

Also, I didn't say it's a form of enslavement for the CHILDREN, but for the woman. The parents make the decision for the children, but the woman has no choice in this situation. She can't even leave by herself (according to what she has written) if that what she was trying to do. This is because of the sponsorship system here.

I am not naive, I've been in custody battles personally. So to assume one is naive is naive in itself, or at least ignorant and assuming.


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## wazza2222 (Sep 7, 2011)

TallyHo said:


> We are all expats here. Frankly, most families in Dubai are here because the husband brought them out here as it's his career that took him here. It's usually the husband who ask their wives to give up their jobs and move away from family and friends in the home country.
> 
> Then once here the husband has all this power over his wife and children? Under the laws here an expat husband can divorce his wife, keep his kids AND push her out of the country by refusing to sponsor her. If the mother wanted to stay here she'd have to find her own job and sponsorship, which is easier said than done especially if the mother's been out of the workforce raising her children (as is the case for so many expat mothers here).
> 
> ...


I find your gross generalisations and sweeping assumptions more than a little offensive. Even if your 'statistics' were once accurate, the percentages are shifting rapidly and now are almost even. Soon the pendulum will have swung past centre. You cannot seriously face us here in 2014 and say that the mother should have the right to remove his children just because she is the mother?


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## Tropicana (Apr 29, 2010)

wazza2222 said:


> I can't suggest a word for you but an explanation:
> The system here is the reverse of the Anglo Saxon one that sees the father disenfranchised at the mother's whim.
> They can't have it all their own way EVERYwhere in the world!
> If this system is wrong, then the British/NewZealand one is equally wrong.


I am not familiar with custody laws in the Anglo Saxon world; but do the laws effectively allow a mother to deport the father if they had a divorce and were not natives?
In other words, if a non-British or non-NZ couple had a divorce, would the mother get custody of the children and be able to send the father outside the UK/NZ and ensure he does not get to meet the children?
If so, then it definitely is unfair and wrong


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## wazza2222 (Sep 7, 2011)

Tropicana said:


> I am not familiar with custody laws in the Anglo Saxon world; but do the laws effectively allow a mother to deport the father if they had a divorce and were not natives?
> In other words, if a non-British or non-NZ couple had a divorce, would the mother get custody of the children and be able to send the father outside the UK/NZ and ensure he does not get to meet the children?
> If so, then it definitely is unfair and wrong


No that isn't the situation. To clarify, what I was trying to convey is that our system is just as 'wrong' as the system here, but in different ways. A mother can remove the children from the father's world and/or have him removed from theirs with a single phone call and one lie. He is treated as guilty by the system and has his reputation ruined without recourse to justice.


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## CrowdedHouse (Feb 22, 2011)

wazza2222 said:


> No that isn't the situation. To clarify, what I was trying to convey is that our system is just as 'wrong' as the system here, but in different ways. *A mother can remove the children from the father's world and/or have him removed from theirs with a single phone call and one lie. He is treated as guilty by the system and has his reputation ruined without recourse to justice*.


That is a gross generalization and hyperbolic. Does it happen, yes. But to say that's the way the system works (in the UK or other countries), is not correct.

What is FACT about the custody laws here is that they are based on Sharia law which gives father's more rights in matters of child custody than are given to mothers. Both parents are equally essential to a child's upbringing.

I think it's wrong for either parent to run off w/ a child. We normally call that abduction. It robs a child the RIGHT to be parented by both mother and father. However, it's equally wrong for a justice system to base custodial matters not on who is more capable, but who is perceived to be more capable according to cultural practices from thousands of years ago. But this is where we live and you choose to live here, you live by their rules. Period.


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## twowheelsgood (Feb 21, 2013)

CrowdedHouse said:


> She can't even leave by herself (according to what she has written) if that what she was trying to do. This is because of the sponsorship system here.


Eh ? Explain ...... this isn't Qatar.


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## CrowdedHouse (Feb 22, 2011)

twowheelsgood said:


> Eh ? Explain ...... this isn't Qatar.


Simple. If your visa is expired, like her and her children. Then the sponsor needs to take care of that before you are allowed to exit. This isn't a general "can I exit the UAE" question (like w/ Qatar).


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## londonmandan (Jul 23, 2013)

Try here

BCAF


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