# USA citizens in Mexico



## GordonLogan (Jul 2, 2012)

The Forum states, "With the American Expat community in Mexico reported to be well over one million..." I have researched this statement many times and find the true number is closer to 300,000. What information do you have to support the larger number? The US Dept. of State told me that was a number they heard, but did not have any data to support it.


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## FHBOY (Jun 15, 2010)

Maybe that fount of all knowledge Wikipedia. But in any case, it don't matter, the import of this forum is the exchange of information - I'll leave the descriptions to poetic license and:
:welcome:
TO THE FORUM!



GordonLogan said:


> The Forum states, "With the American Expat community in Mexico reported to be well over one million..." I have researched this statement many times and find the true number is closer to 300,000. What information do you have to support the larger number? The US Dept. of State told me that was a number they heard, but did not have any data to support it.


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## Longford (May 25, 2012)

GordonLogan said:


> The Forum states, "With the American Expat community in Mexico reported to be well over one million..." I have researched this statement many times and find the true number is closer to 300,000. What information do you have to support the larger number? The US Dept. of State told me that was a number they heard, but did not have any data to support it.


You're correct. The 1 million number originated, best I have found, from a badly written paper by a university student who published it and from which numbers were quoted. The same author said there were 500,000 Americans living in Mexico City. Before then you'd often read a 500,000 figure quoted - for the natioinwide USA expat population. 

Away from the border zone, including Baja California and I'm thinking Baja Sur, and exclusing Mexicans who were naturalized in the USA but returned home to live in Mexico (even their USA born children), the number of USA expats living full-time in Mexico is probably 250,000 - 300,000.

But you do have to add to that 250,000-300,000 number that grouping of expats from the USA who live in the border zone and Baja. That could easily be 50,000.


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## conklinwh (Dec 19, 2009)

Not sure why someone would ask the question unless IRS looking for more tax receipts.
There are almost again as many people in our area that own land or houses but only visit so not sure how these counted.
Also since everyone born in the US is a citizen not sure that these can be excluded unless we have expats and some other category that really doesn't exist.


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

According to INEGI (Instituto Nacional de Estadística y Geografia), the count from the 2010 census was 738,103. The complete report here. 

Not "well over one million", but given that it doubled between 2000 and 2010, it may well be pushing 1 million by now.

In the same report, the Canadian count was only 7,943. I find that hard to believe. They may not be counting snow birds. I remember the census worker coming around and asking me the questions, but I can't remember what season it was.

Baja California, Chihuahua, and Jalisco are the three states with the highest count of foreign born.

The plot of age distribution on p. 3 of the report is edifying. If you include the US, 56.8% of the foreign born in Mexico are between the ages of 0 and 14 years. If you exclude the US, only 10.3% fall in that age group. If my calculations are correct, there are 522,945 kids born in the US and living in Mexico. The same calculation applied to those 65 and over, indicates that there are 17,688 seniors born in the US and living in Mexico.

Interesting numbers. I wonder how effectively they counted expats. If you were here in 2010, were you counted? I was.


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## conklinwh (Dec 19, 2009)

Don't know that they even hit our little pueblo. Maybe they used tax records.


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

conklinwh said:


> Don't know that they even hit our little pueblo. Maybe they used tax records.


They put a sticker on the electric meter or door of each household that they interviewed here in Gdl. I guess it was a way to make it easy for them to see who still needed to be counted. You can still see the stickers although they are getting a little weather beaten now. The sticker said something like "Census 2010". Mine is unreadable now. If they came through your pueblo some of the stickers might still be around.


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## Longford (May 25, 2012)

The Census report didn't distinguish between full-time, seasonal and in some instances tourists ... from what I understand. INM has the most accurate statistics - if you can get them released. The last ones I saw, a couple of years ago, had the count of expats from the USA in resident visa categories (excluding students, businesspersons and tourists) was below 300,000.


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## makaloco (Mar 26, 2009)

Being born in the US doesn't necessarily make one an expat. INEGI's figures would include Mexican and other nationals born in the US, for example. A birthplace question is going to elicit very different statistics than a question about nationality or primary home.

I was counted in the 2010 census, but most expats in my area are part-timers, and the census took place in summer when few were around. Some full-timers living in outlying areas said they weren't counted, while others said they were. At least one couple was asked specifically if they were full- or part-timers.

A related question is how the census-takers deal with foreigners who don't know enough Spanish to answer the questions. I have no idea what they do in that case.

INM figures are useful, but they don't necessarily indicate whether people actually live in Mexico. Many part-timers who spend less than six months here come and go on tourist cards, while some vacation home owners who don't really live here at all have FM3/No Inmigrante cards.


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## Longford (May 25, 2012)

I've been thinking about this discussion, and my earlier responses to it, overnight. It's a topic I've discussed frequently over the course of the past decade and about which I did some research maybe 10 years ago.

I've overlooked a significant change in the expat population (from the USA) which has taken place in recent years which gives support to the claim that the population of the "American Expat" community may approach 750,000+.

The wild card? Children. Children born in the USA to one or two parents who are Mexican and who have relocated to Mexico because a parent has been deported. I've seen an estimate today that since 2005 the estimated number of "American Expat" children has increased by 300,000. That's an astounding number.

The _Atlanta Journal Constitution_ newspaper is featuring an _Associated Press_ story (carried in many other newspapers, as well) entitled, _US-born kids of migrants lose rights in Mexico_. The focus of the article is how these expatriated children are being disadvantaged, punished by a myriad of bureaucracies in Mexico because various types of official documents they've been required to produce (to enter school, to receive medical attention, etc.) and lack of certifications from the USA. 

Link to the AP story: US-born kids of migrants lose rights in Mexico *| ajc.com

In addition to the "since 2005" statistics regarding the USA born children, there's another which I sat up straight when reading: "The number of U.S.-citizen children living in Mexico with at least one Mexican parent reached 500,000 in 2011, according to one demographic study."

The validity of statistics which are often quoted isn't always easy to verify. But I thought this article had a bearing on the discussion and it's caused me to more carefully think about the topic. I'd forgotten about the children.


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

Longford said:


> ...
> In addition to the "since 2005" statistics regarding the USA born children, there's another which I sat up straight when reading: "The number of U.S.-citizen children living in Mexico with at least one Mexican parent reached 500,000 in 2011, according to one demographic study."
> 
> The validity of statistics which are often quoted isn't always easy to verify. But I thought this article had a bearing on the discussion and it's caused me to more carefully think about the topic. I'd forgotten about the children.


I agree. That is what is contained in the census report I linked earlier in this thread. It also caused me to rethink my ideas on the composition of US citizens in Mexico.


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## conklinwh (Dec 19, 2009)

TundraGreen said:


> They put a sticker on the electric meter or door of each household that they interviewed here in Gdl. I guess it was a way to make it easy for them to see who still needed to be counted. You can still see the stickers although they are getting a little weather beaten now. The sticker said something like "Census 2010". Mine is unreadable now. If they came through your pueblo some of the stickers might still be around.


Nunca y nada!


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## Longford (May 25, 2012)

Click on the link below and you'll be taken to a discussion elsewhere on the www where there's a good discussion of, and links to information about, expats living in Mexico.

How many expats are in Mexico, SMA, Lakeside? - Falling...in Love with San Miguel Forums


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## stilltraveling (May 7, 2012)

conklinwh said:


> Don't know that they even hit our little pueblo. Maybe they used tax records.


The census aims to hit every household, just like the US census. However, there are always homes that are missed. Complex statistical models are applied to make up for the difference. These include tax records, electrical meter readings, water usage and even satellite photos of construction and nighttime illumination. The Mexican census is as thorough as any census in the developed world, though it isn't 100% accurate. In fact, it's 99% accurate by design, which is the world standard.


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## makaloco (Mar 26, 2009)

stilltraveling said:


> The census aims to hit every household, just like the US census. However, there are always homes that are missed. Complex statistical models are applied to make up for the difference. These include tax records, electrical meter readings, water usage and even satellite photos of construction and nighttime illumination. The Mexican census is as thorough as any census in the developed world, though it isn't 100% accurate. In fact, it's 99% accurate by design, which is the world standard.


We could even complete the census online. I was traveling when the census-taker came (twice) to my house. She left notice of her visits with a day/time she'd return, but I was away for two weeks and missed her return visits as well. I looked on the INEGI website for a phone number and discovered the online option. As I recall, first I had to call an 800-number and supply my name and basic household information in order to get a password and/or ID number. With that, I was able to access the questions on the web and submit my responses. It was very simple. Later, the actual census taker came by again, so I explained that I'd done it online and gave her the password/ID number and date. She added that to her records, and voilà.


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