# Retirement, for how long



## bob_bob (Jan 5, 2011)

I remember reading an article three or four years ago about a retired chap in Spain having to move back to the UK as his pension and savings did not cover his needs and the medical/home care he needed was not available or affordable to him in Spain.

The chap was well into his 90's, ex WW2 RAF pilot and he'd had a wonderful life in Spain but the problem was that when he retired he'd not expected he would be alive for another 30+ years.

So, how have you 'future proofed' your income given that people are living longer these days, will your pension(s)/investments be enough in twenty years time?


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

bob_bob said:


> I remember reading an article three or four years ago about a retired chap in Spain having to move back to the UK as his pension and savings did not cover his needs and the medical/home care he needed was not available or affordable to him in Spain.
> 
> The chap was well into his 90's, ex WW2 RAF pilot and he'd had a wonderful life in Spain but the problem was that when he retired he'd not expected he would be alive for another 30+ years.
> 
> So, how have you 'future proofed' your income given that people are living longer these days, will your pension(s)/investments be enough in twenty years time?


I know someone that happened to 

he thought he had planned well enough, too - in fact he had an income of several 1000 a month............until his investments plummeted & both he & his wife became so physically infirm that they virtually needed live-in help - which cost more than he could afford


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

bob_bob said:


> I remember reading an article three or four years ago about a retired chap in Spain having to move back to the UK as his pension and savings did not cover his needs and the medical/home care he needed was not available or affordable to him in Spain.
> 
> The chap was well into his 90's, ex WW2 RAF pilot and he'd had a wonderful life in Spain but the problem was that when he retired he'd not expected he would be alive for another 30+ years.
> 
> So, how have you 'future proofed' your income given that people are living longer these days, will your pension(s)/investments be enough in twenty years time?


Easily. I have a local authority pension and was earning a good salary before I retired on which my retirement pension was based.. I also have additional investment income from private funds with the basic state retirement pension on top of that plus capital invested offshore.

OH has a negligible income - plus the basic state pension to come -as she invested the proceeds of the sale of her business premises in a SIPP. So she has capital on which the interest is extremely low at this point in time, much less than we anticipated ten years ago. We also have capital from selling properties in the UK and Canada gaining equally derisory interest..

No way are we rich, merely comfortable. Ironically, although I have much less capital than OH, I have a greater income which will continue coming in until I shuffle my mortal coil and has a built-in index-lnked component so it is increased each year.. But she will have enough to live on without my income although not in the kind of property we now rent.

When we did our calculations for our move to Spain we did it on the basis of the worst-case scenario, an exchange rate of £ /euro parity. We had already seen a drop of one-third of our purchasing power in the Czech Republic as the exchange rate plummeted from £1=42.5 CZK to £1= 28 CZK. 

I think far too many people, whether coming to Spain to retire or to work, simply don't do their homework thoroughly enough. They don't plan for the medium or long-term and don't take into account factors beyond their control such as fluctuations in exchange rates or severe health problems.

We started out renting a fairly expensive but affordable property on the basis that we could always down-size if we could no longer afford it and that when we get less mobile we wouldn't want to stay in such a large house anyway.

If we both get to the point where we need residential care and our joint incomes and savings won't support the cost I shall expect my family to help and they would expect to do so.


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## Solwriter (Jan 10, 2012)

bob_bob said:


> So, how have you 'future proofed' your income given that people are living longer these days, will your pension(s)/investments be enough in twenty years time?


We haven't 'future proofed' anything I'm sorry to say, and any investments or savings we once had (which should have 'future proofed' us) are long gone. 
And I would guess that many people here are in the same boat as us, getting by month to month and pleased when we have a little left over.

But let's be honest, with the state of the financial markets, no one can say for sure whether they will have adequate savings and investments in 20 years time, or even pensions.
Some say invest in Gold, others swear by bank planned investments, but who knows?

And *mrypg9*, we did think we were providing for the medium and long term. But I guess that, when you start out planning with a small amount, you are going to have your plans scuppered quicker than those who plan with a larger amount...

So, I guess the answer is to be relatively rich in the first place!


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## Guest (Mar 6, 2012)

we future proofed by having our main residence in South America where for example a weeks worth of groceries including fruit/veggies/fish/meat costs 40 USD and a 'good' hair cut, not one of those numbered things costs 2.5 USD. For both our health insurance policies we pay 30 USD a month. My blood pressure medicine monthly cost's 2.00 USD and that's delivered to the house and is so cheap I don't bother to use my own insurance for it. I have a doctor that practiced in the US for 12 years, he does house calls for 10 USD (again outside my inurance), and he is one smart mofo. The people in Colombia are actually freaking happy that we are there...and this on top of losing 35% on our dollar in Colombia...

We save so much that we can visit Spain every year (or anywhere really) and can stay for up to three-four months. This trip we are cutting short simply because it's to freaking cold...jajajajaja...lesson learned there....

that being said after retiring at 42 and now 54...the wife 46...our income hasn't increased so we have started a couple little online business's (registered Colombian company) that has started to make some money...but it takes time like anything...

suerte!


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

I would never have left the UK and sold every piece of property we owned if I hadn't thought I could continue living abroad whatever.

Having always been the prudent, uber-cautious type, I reckoned on how many years I could expect to live at the most - my mother lived until she was 81, my gran until 90, my aunt is going strong at 86...so I divided what I had in addition to my revenue income on the basis of how many years I could reasonably expect to live. 

As a couple we are adaptable. If we have to downsize, it's no big deal. It wasn't until quite late in our lives that we had that much disposable income anyway so we're used to living a reasonable life on comparatively little. We are not either of us people who come from well-off families or who are used to living well.

I think that most people dream of Spain rather than planning for Spain. You have to be realistic and objective. You also have to remember that retiring abroad anywhere isn't an entitlement, it's a luxury that most people have had to work hard to attain. Fact is, not everyone can sensibly afford it.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Solwriter said:


> ?
> 
> And *mrypg9*, we did think we were providing for the medium and long term. But I guess that, when you start out planning with a small amount, you are going to have your plans scuppered quicker than those who plan with a larger amount...
> 
> So, I guess the answer is to be relatively rich in the first place!



We were better off than some in the UK but never what I would call 'rich'. I guess I should be thanking you and everyone on this site who pays UK tax for keeping me comfortable in Spain....you are paying towards my Teachers Pension. TPs are based on a formula which essentially means you can receive up to 50% of your gross retirement salary...it's a Final Salary Scheme. 

So some Heads and Heads of Department will have pensions well in excess of the UK national average wage.

Having offspring with very well-paid jobs and a daughter-in-law with whom both OH and I get on very well and who has a strong sense of family obligation helps too.
We have been assured that their house nearby ours will always be available to us.

If I hadn't had all those 'insurances' in place I don't think I would have entertained the idea of moving abroad anywhere. As I said, I'm very cautious and having lived most of my life being short of it, I've learned to be very careful with what money I now have.

I'm also constantly having to pinch myself and come to terms with the fact that I am actually living this kind of life as it's not something I'm used to or take for granted.

Maybe that's why I get so ratty at times with people who think it's oh so easy to come to live in Spain. I know I'm here partly because of working for decades at a job I found boring and could do standing on my head after twenty years or so....but also because I've been incredibly lucky. 

I hope my luck holds but who knows?


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## owdoggy (Jul 23, 2008)

Our crystal ball is on the blink again & doesn't seem to be working so I guess we better just live for now and enjoy ourselves while we can …… sorted



Doggy


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## XTreme (May 17, 2008)

I'll be working till the day I die.....and i'm fine with that.

I've seen too many people deteriorate mentally and physically when they cease to have a challenge and a goal in their lives.

As it is, it's a family business that will carry on forever, so it'll never be a case of selling up and living off the proceeds for us because it's our boys' future.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

If I'm still alive when the money runs out I will throw myself at the mercy of the local nuns. We will have a lot to learn from each other, for sure.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Alcalaina said:


> If I'm still alive when the money runs out I will throw myself at the mercy of the local nuns. We will have a lot to learn from each other, for sure.


Please give me details of your local convent.

I shall join it merely in order to be a fly on the wall, so to speak, should that eventuality come to pass....

It will beat Celebrity Big Brother and all other reality tv shows hands down


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## youngagepensioner (May 18, 2009)

Money aside, what plans have all of you made in case you become ill or infirm in your extreme old age?


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## owdoggy (Jul 23, 2008)

youngagepensioner said:


> Money aside, what plans have all of you made in case you become ill or infirm in your extreme old age?


Death




Doggy


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

youngagepensioner said:


> Money aside, what plans have all of you made in case you become ill or infirm in your extreme old age?


First of all, you can't put 'money aside' when thinking about that because money could be crucial. Money helps solve many problems.

I'm afraid I'm relying on that traditional virtue, still existing in many families, of looking after your aged mum or dad when they get past the stage of looking after themselves.

If my genes are inherited from my mother's side of the family I may well follow the example of mum and gran and great-gran, al lof whom lived active lives and were compos mentis well into their 80s or more and died peacefully in their sleep.

Or not.

My son and dil will most likely retire to Spain anyway so they'll hopefully not have to make great adjustments in order to care for senile mother and mother-in-law.


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## XTreme (May 17, 2008)

mrypg9 said:


> My son and dil will most likely retire to Spain anyway so they'll hopefully not have to make great adjustments in order to care for senile mother and mother-in-law.


Mary.....you have to bear in mind that any evaluation of the mental faculties of Brits in Spain is going to be a difficult assessment.

I'll give you an analogy: Back in 1979 I was manager of a motor factors, and the the girl van driver at the time was not exactly attractive.....hideous would probably be a better description! 
Anyway.....one day she crashed the van and the Police were called.....I got to the scene and a copper informed me that "the bloke driving the van appeared to have suffered facial injuries".
I took a look and told him...."First of all it's a girl, and secondly she was that effing ugly when she got in the van".
/SNIP/

How does this relate to senile Brits in Spain? Well considering so many of them are already staggering around in a confused and bewildered state, making no sense whatsoever, and incapable of doing anything for themselves.....it's going to be a tough call.
But like in the case of the van driver.....my money's on the fact that they got off the plane in that state!


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

XTreme said:


> Mary.....you have to bear in mind that any evaluation of the mental faculties of Brits in Spain is going to be a difficult assessment.
> 
> I'll give you an analogy: Back in 1979 I was manager of a motor factors, and the the girl van driver at the time was not exactly attractive.....hideous would probably be a better description!
> Anyway.....one day she crashed the van and the Police were called.....I got to the scene and a copper informed me that "the bloke driving the van appeared to have suffered facial injuries".
> ...


Yep, you've got "retirement" in Spain down to a T! You spend 22 hours a day dealing with said mentally deficient people designing their web sites, and the other two you spend having meaningful discussions with a deranged donkey.


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

It's difficult to make plans for a scenario which is like, as the saying goes, as long as a piece of string. You can't estimate how long you are going to live, how the investment markets are going to go, if another financial guru having his evil way with a chambermaid in New York will effect your rate of exchange, so how can you plan for it. You put all your dosh in a nice safe investment, you get naf all return on it, and then you peg it on your 65th birthday. You'd be well peeved wouldnt you ... well, you would be if you could feel peeved at all!

My daughter keeps saying "spend it". But you cant can you, because for all I know I might live until I'm 90 (which our family tend to do) and then I'de be peeved in the long term. So in essence its a choice between short or long term peeved, yer take your choice!

Who is to know ... live for today!


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## nigele2 (Dec 25, 2009)

Stravinsky said:


> It's difficult to make plans for a scenario which is like, as the saying goes, as long as a piece of string.


So true but looking back at my parents I wish they had spent more. They retired to a nice bungalow on half an acre (fanatical gardeners) near Ringwood Hampshire. Like many of their neighbours they had learnt to be thrifty in their lives but were now siting on substantial sums without the ability to enjoy it. They underestimated how little retired people with limited mobility spend. They both lived to well over 80 despite several major medical conditions.

But as well as money I think location is very important. Timely downsizing with easy public transport to doctors/dentists/hospitals/friends and family, shops, etc.

And something that really annoys me - old people with loads of money who will not buy special tuned to their needs hearing aids stating that they are expensive and that their hearing is fine  

But yesterday I came back from a diving trip to Tenerife. I sat next to a 80+ couple who were coming back to England for a few weeks (as they did 4 times a year) to visit family. Shared beers with them and the conversation was lively and funny. He was ex RAF and his stories about the paras were amusing but much of the chat was of politics, brits who don't speak spanish, and diving. They were sprightly wanting to get off the plane before the families and those in need of wheel chairs. If I get there I hope I am like them


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## Guest (Mar 7, 2012)

warning...expats live longer than their counterparts...I've met loads of brits in their late 70's and 80's that look great...but not to worry there are loads of S. American's here that will work in the black to push you about...


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

nigele2 said:


> So true but looking back at my parents I wish they had spent more. They retired to a nice bungalow on half an acre (fanatical gardeners) near Ringwood Hampshire. Like many of their neighbours they had learnt to be thrifty in their lives but were now siting on substantial sums without the ability to enjoy it. They underestimated how little retired people with limited mobility spend. They both lived to well over 80 despite several major medical conditions.
> 
> But as well as money I think location is very important. Timely downsizing with easy public transport to doctors/dentists/hospitals/friends and family, shops, etc.
> 
> ...



Leaving out the 'loadsamoney' bit....for about six months now I've been treated -unsuccessfully - for an allergy that involves lots of sneezing in the morning and at night, a horrible rash, horrible catarrh....and partial loss of hearing in my left ear.

OH is getting exasperated at having to repeat things and I'm beginning to feel I'd be better off with a hearing device....but it would make me feel so.......OLD

Am I being silly? I have no idea what I'm allergic to and don't want tests to find out as it might be something I like very much like dogs or coffee.


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

mrypg9 said:


> Leaving out the 'loadsamoney' bit....for about six months now I've been treated -unsuccessfully - for an allergy that involves lots of sneezing in the morning and at night, a horrible rash, horrible catarrh....and partial loss of hearing in my left ear.
> 
> OH is getting exasperated at having to repeat things and I'm beginning to feel I'd be better off with a hearing device....but it would make me feel so.......OLD
> 
> Am I being silly? I have no idea what I'm allergic to and don't want tests to find out as it might be something I like very much like dogs or coffee.


You have no idea how annoying it is having to say things twice all the time. Hearing aids these days are hardly noticeable. My wife has them, but she chooses not to to wear them at home ........... You have no idea how annoying it is having to say things twice all the time.

I did consider getting her to register on the forum and then I can talk to her in threads even when she is sitting next to me on the sofa

Does that answer your question 


On the age thing .... I'm constantly told that you dont need so much money when you get past your early 70's ... basically because you cant be bothered to do so much as you did earlier in life. Therefore I suspect our spend will be higher between 60 and 70, travelling etc.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Stravinsky said:


> You have no idea how annoying it is having to say things twice all the time. Hearing aids these days are hardly noticeable. My wife has them, but she chooses not to to wear them at home ........... You have no idea how annoying it is having to say things twice all the time.
> 
> I did consider getting her to register on the forum and then I can talk to her in threads even when she is sitting next to me on the sofa
> 
> ...


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## jules 123 (Apr 26, 2011)

Stravinsky said:


> You have no idea how annoying it is having to say things twice all the time. Hearing aids these days are hardly noticeable. My wife has them, but she chooses not to to wear them at home ........... You have no idea how annoying it is having to say things twice all the time.
> 
> I did consider getting her to register on the forum and then I can talk to her in threads even when she is sitting next to me on the sofa
> 
> ...


I know you have commented tongue in cheek ... but you can understand her not wanting to wear them all the time?


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

jules 123 said:


> I know you have commented tongue in cheek ... but you can understand her not wanting to wear them all the time?


Yes of course 
One day I will be there myself, my Dad was as deaf as a post


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

mrypg9 said:


> Stravinsky said:
> 
> 
> > You have no idea how annoying it is having to say things twice all the time. Hearing aids these days are hardly noticeable. My wife has them, but she chooses not to to wear them at home ........... You have no idea how annoying it is having to say things twice all the time.
> ...


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Stravinsky said:


> Yes of course
> One day I will be there myself, my Dad was as deaf as a post


my Mum _was _ deaf as a post

when the guy came & sold her her hearing aids he persuaded my Dad that he needed one too........

just after my Dad moved to live with us at the end of 2010, the battery went dead

before I was able to get a new one, I realised that we had managed to turn the tele down for the first time since he'd been with us..................& he didn't have his hearing aid in, yet he could hear it just fine

bloody conman hearing aid guy had sold him something he didn't need - he could hear perfectly well without it - and in fact just having it in his ear was stopping him hearing


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## XTreme (May 17, 2008)

Stravinsky said:


> my Dad was as deaf as a post


And he was also the brains of the family......and you know it!

Remind me again of his nationality Jon?


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

XTreme said:


> And he was also the brains of the family......and you know it!
> 
> Remind me again of his nationality Jon?


He was from Khazakhstan and was a trick camel trainer


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## Goldeneye (Nov 12, 2011)

Hubby & I are in that predicament, trying to decide how much is 'enough'

We're only 50 ~ 52 (Well I'm 50 for just one more week!) Arghhh... We gave up our very lucrative Dental Lab 4 years ago next month due to Hubby being sick and he had the licence in Canada.. As the Business is based on goodwill, there was nothing to sell  I've been making and selling fused glass for the summer season, which funds our love of travel..

Investments took a mega hit 4 years ago and have not recovered at all, where as we were 'set' we're still 50% down.. 

We feel we are in limbo playing a waiting game, unsure about moving 'just yet' I am working 5 months of the year which funds our passion for travelling ~ 2 months (Last year, 6 weeks Spain/Portugal and 3 weeks in the Caribbean.... Oh and the usual obligatory visit to UK to see family..

We have to consider our ages and years of retirement ahead of us, we want to get moving but feel we're caught between a rock and a hard place.. Meanwhile, we will take another 6 weeks this fall to check out the Costa Blanca, The Algarve and CDS didn't feel 'right' for us.. Hopefully when the time comes for 'the move' we'll pretty much know where we want to be.

We wondered if we bought something with a guest cottage, that might subsidize our income a little, or even do a B &B.. 
I'm pretty conservative and erring on the side of caution..... 

Oh what to do !! :confused2:

I


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## Solwriter (Jan 10, 2012)

mrypg9 said:


> Leaving out the 'loadsamoney' bit....for about six months now I've been treated -unsuccessfully - for an allergy that involves lots of sneezing in the morning and at night, a horrible rash, horrible catarrh....and partial loss of hearing in my left ear.
> 
> OH is getting exasperated at having to repeat things and I'm beginning to feel I'd be better off with a hearing device....but it would make me feel so.......OLD
> 
> Am I being silly? I have no idea what I'm allergic to and don't want tests to find out as it might be something I like very much like dogs or coffee.


A bit off topic here....
But are you receiving treatment _only_ for the allergy?
Because it sounds to me that build up from the allergy has led to an infection which also needs treatment - hence the catarrh and ear problems.

Ok....
:focus:


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Solwriter said:


> A bit off topic here....
> But are you receiving treatment _only_ for the allergy?
> Because it sounds to me that build up from the allergy has led to an infection which also needs treatment - hence the catarrh and ear problems.
> 
> ...



I think you are right! I tend to be doctor-averse....our family was robust, healthy, had a deep suspicion of 'chemist's medicines' and tended to put up with things and suffer in silence until whatever was bothersome went away.

So I look up things on the net which is probably just as daft in another way.

I'm going to see Dr. Vicioso (I kid you not) on Monday and I shall explain what you have suggested which sounds right to me.

Thanks.

Forgive me for being intrusive...but are you having problems sleeping? I note you have been posting at times when Spain sleeps...

You can tell me to MYOB....


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

mrypg9 said:


> Leaving out the 'loadsamoney' bit....for about six months now I've been treated -unsuccessfully - for an allergy that involves lots of sneezing in the morning and at night, a horrible rash, horrible catarrh....and partial loss of hearing in my left ear.
> 
> OH is getting exasperated at having to repeat things and I'm beginning to feel I'd be better off with a hearing device....but it would make me feel so.......OLD
> 
> Am I being silly? I have no idea what I'm allergic to and don't want tests to find out as it might be something I like very much like dogs or coffee.


If you've got "stuff" and discomfort in your ear you don't need a hearing aid, do you? You need to get the problem, what ever it is, sorted out. So, as other people have said, give Sandra a break, and get thee to a doctor! 

PS My mum is literally as deaf as a post and didn't realise/ didn't want to admit it. This has caused a serious rift between us as I would phone, be halfway through an amusing anecdote about the loveliest grand daughter in the world (my daughter of course!) which would be met with her silence or little interest OR I would be cut off with her telling a story of the grand children over there. I couldn't understand stand her attitude - until she got her hearing tested...

Apologies to OP
:focus:


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## Solwriter (Jan 10, 2012)

mrypg9 said:


> Forgive me for being intrusive...but are you having problems sleeping? I note you have been posting at times when Spain sleeps...
> 
> You can tell me to MYOB....


No, I can sleep any time anywhere 

But because we have such a poor internet connection, I often work online well into the early hours of the morning. That way I get a workable internet for a few hours!
I come in here for a few minutes to chill out after work. 
Oh yes...
and :focus:


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## bob_bob (Jan 5, 2011)

Thanks for the replies Re: retirement. Like Mary the wife and I have very nice pensions, I got one from the Army and another early due to ill health. I'm pushing the wife to pull the plug, we don't the money but she is a dedicated senior nurse and has been dragging her heels.........but she is now finishing xmas after forty years (some breaks when we lived overseas but she nursed when there) so no more little solo trips for me 

We acquired houses over the years, buy one, live in it, get transferred somewhere so we'd rent out the house and never move back, just buy another one. Lots of juggling with mortgages and loans (and some lean times) but it paid off in the end plus we inherited others from family. We sold the London property and did intend buying abroad but held off due to my health and the OH insisting on working and with the current state of the Spanish property market it looks like we did the right thing.

So, we have really a rather nice income and now I know when she is stopping work can look for somewhere to rent for half a year or more at a time. Won't be mainland Spain (winters are too cold), Cyprus is possible but the year round weather on Gran Canaria has all the pull at the moment.

Hopefully we can live (subject to health) for a long long time without too many worries but health is the big question in any retirement plan. Having almost died myself it makes you reflect upon your own mortality. One thing we have insisted on is that the children do NOT become involved in caring for us; sort out a good nursing home and if and when dementia kicks in they are NOT allowed to visit us even. They have their own lives to live and their own children to raise; they certainly don't need the utter drain that caring for elderly parents is. Both of us (and daughter now she is nursing) have seen the effects of taking on elderly frail/confused people, its awful and we won't have it for our children but thats personal choice and a family needs the strength to be able to discuss this area and come to a lasting agreement.

Anyway, on a cheerful note I'm cooking 'Weeping Lamb' for dinner as the grand children are staying over tonight.......they'll put you in an early grave...wish I had their energy but I will get some rest as I've got them both learning morse code so they can sit there while I tap out messages to them for an hour or so


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

mrypg9 said:


> and partial loss of hearing in my left ear.
> 
> OH is getting exasperated at having to repeat things and I'm beginning to feel I'd be better off with a hearing device....but it would make me feel so.......OLD


I am partially deaf (traumatic deafness- they call it) which started with being only about 150 yds away from one of Hitler's V2 rockets when it came down in addition to living right by the coastal ack-ack guns. Then went to work for the War Dept and being next to heavy guns when they went off (what are ear-defenders?). Then in the RAF in noisy situations (heavy diesel generator by my right-ear, jet engine whistle, etc. I was always told that because of its cause, my hearing was permanently damaged and hearing aids would be no use.

I was persuaded to go to the audiology dept at our local hospital, tested and they supplied me with hearing aids (two) - miracle of miracles - I could hear many things that I hadn't heard since my childhood (birds - aren't they noisy) and some sounds that I had never heard. Unfortunately, since the Spanish are so noisy, I rarely wear them here.

Make me feel/look old? What looks older than some old codger cupping his hand to his ear and saying ''Eh?'' 

Q.E.D.


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