# FATCA question



## Carmonli (Jul 1, 2014)

I am a US citizen; my husband is not. 

I recently got a letter from our Israeli bank (joint account) which asked me (on the basis of place of birth) to fill out a W9 form, which I have done. But then I noticed that the letter was actually addressed to both of us. Does my husband need to fill out a W8-BEN form? Both forms were included in the letter.

He has no income from the US, and does not file tax returns (I file as Married - filing separately). We are talking about a regular savings/checking account here, not investments.


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## BBCWatcher (Dec 28, 2012)

Carmonli said:


> Does my husband need to fill out a W8-BEN form?


Assuming he's not a U.S. person (citizen, national, or resident), no, but your bank will be in touch if they need anything else.


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## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

Probably addressed the request to both of you because that's the way they have it in their computer for the joint account. You have the reporting obligation, not your husband. (Assuming he is not a US citizen or has no other reason to have to file.)

These days they always include both forms - I guess they figure you could have renounced or have other circumstances whereby you weren't a US citizen.
Cheers,
Bev


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## StewartPatton (Aug 5, 2014)

If you haven't filed US tax returns or FBARs, now's the time to get that all together.


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## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

The OP said she files as married, filing separately. Don't think back-filing is an issue here.
Cheers,
Bev


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## StewartPatton (Aug 5, 2014)

The OP didn't mention FBARs though.


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## Carmonli (Jul 1, 2014)

Tax returns and FBARs are up to date. That's not the question. It's my reporting responsibility and I take care of it.

The question was: does my husband HAVE to fill out a W8-BEN, which as I understand declares that he does NOT have anything to be reported to the IRS. I'm concerned because I've heard stories about anyone being vaguely connected to a US person having their banking abilities overseas affected (accounts closed, etc.).


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## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

I would assume that they addressed the request to you, as a US citizen - but given that the account is in joint name, just addressed things as the account is headed. If they "need" the W8 BEN from your husband, they'll contact you again, I'm sure.

The W9 and W8 BEN are forms that go only to the bank, not to the IRS. If your husband has no US filing obligation, he should have no need to fill out the W8 BEN. If the bank's policy differs on that somehow, they'll be in touch. (Or, just ask your bank what they need/want.)
Cheers,
Bev


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## iota2014 (Jul 30, 2015)

Bevdeforges said:


> The W9 and W8 BEN are forms that go only to the bank, not to the IRS. If your husband has no US filing obligation, he should have no need to fill out the W8 BEN. If the bank's policy differs on that somehow, they'll be in touch. (Or, just ask your bank what they need/want.)
> Cheers,
> Bev


Wouldn't the bank need a W8-BEN from the husband, as an account-holder, as part of the required due diligence? To satisfy the IRS that he's not a US Person? Because if he _were_ a US Person the IRS would presumably take an interest in any other accounts he might have.


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## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

iota2014 said:


> Wouldn't the bank need a W8-BEN from the husband, as an account-holder, as part of the required due diligence? To satisfy the IRS that he's not a US Person? Because if he _were_ a US Person the IRS would presumably take an interest in any other accounts he might have.


Ultimately, it's down to the bank and their policies. The husband has no US tax obligation if he is not a US citizen and not a permanent resident (i.e. green card holder). But the IRS isn't going to come in and audit/query an individual bank over a single non-US-citizen customer, even if he does have a joint account with a USC. (Especially if she is reporting the joint account on her FinCEN filings each year.)
Cheers,
Bev


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## iota2014 (Jul 30, 2015)

Bevdeforges said:


> Ultimately, it's down to the bank and their policies. The husband has no US tax obligation if he is not a US citizen and not a permanent resident (i.e. green card holder). But the IRS isn't going to come in and audit/query an individual bank over a single non-US-citizen customer, even if he does have a joint account with a USC. (Especially if she is reporting the joint account on her FinCEN filings each year.)
> Cheers,
> Bev


If I recall correctly, the due diligence procedures of the UK IGA tell banks to treat as recalcitrant any reportable account with US indicia for which requested information (in this case the W8-BEN) is not provided. I don't know if the Israeli IGA is similar but if it's a Model 1 IGA I would guess that it probably is. If so, it would seem advisable to return it.

Also, it's surely in the accountholder's interest to establish with the bank that he is not a US citizen, so that they can put that information on record. I'm looking forward to receiving W8-BENs from all my banks so that I can establish that, despite US indicia, I'm not a US Person and they don't need to close my account.


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## BBCWatcher (Dec 28, 2012)

It doesn't matter in this case, Iota2014. It's a joint account, and a W-9 is on file for one of the account holders. The account will be reported. If the bank wants anything more it'll be in touch. Nothing to worry about.


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## Carmonli (Jul 1, 2014)

The (Israeli) bank has now indeed asked him to fill out a W8-BEN form. 

My husband is not a US citizen and no longer has a green card. He did, at one time, but it was taken away from him many years ago (at least 20, we don't recall exactly) at the airport when entering the US. He never received any form in return.

He does have a SS number, from the years that he worked in the US. Must he put down that number? It's not clear to me from the instructions.


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## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

The IRS instructions for the form are here: https://www.irs.gov/instructions/iw8ben/index.html

As with most IRS instructions, it's not entirely clear whether or not there is an obligation to fill in certain lines (like the SS number). However, remember that this form only goes to the "withholding agent" (i.e. the bank) and does not get submitted to the IRS. It's primarily a "cover your butt" document for the bank - to document why they are reporting the account in the first place and/or withholding US tax at whatever rate they are doing (including 0% withholding, which is probably the case here).

Clearly, your husband would fill this in as a "non-resident alien" - and let the bank deal with whatever they care to do about reporting or not reporting whatever they feel they need to.
Cheers,
Bev


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## Carmonli (Jul 1, 2014)

Thanks, that's what I was thinking.


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## BBCWatcher (Dec 28, 2012)

Withholding should not apply here regardless.


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