# Dual National Relinquishing British citizenship to apply for an EEA Family Permit.



## flipmode (Jul 4, 2013)

Hi There,

I have been living in Bangkok, Thailand for the past 4 years (currently still in Bangkok) 

I hold British and Swiss citizenship.

My objective is to move back to the UK with my non-EEA Thai National girlfriend. We have been living together since April 9th 2011.

I am seriously considering Relinquishing my British citizenship in order to apply for an EEA family permit as it seems that i would have more favorable rights in doing so. I would then apply based on my Swiss citizenship.

I have a few questions regarding the best way to approach this. Any help would be much appreciated 

1) After giving up my British Citizenship is it possible for us to apply for the EEA family permit *without* me having to travel back to the UK first? 
A visa services company has advised that i must travel back to the UK and register for job seekers allowance(JSA) or gain employment before applying?
I was under the impression that one only had to provide evidence that they are a 'qualified person' if they have already been living in the UK for over 3 months or when the non-EEA national is applying for a residence permit at a later stage.

2) Does anyone know if it is possible to get my British citizenship back in the future? I realize that this is possible if you're relinquishing it in order to gain another citizenship but since this is not the case would there be any possibility? Does anybody know if my national Insurance number will change after relinquishing my British citizenship? 

3) Is not being married a big disadvantage? As i previously stated we have been living together in Bangkok for over 2 years, from April '11 until now.
We have letters on headed paper from serviced apartments stating the dates we lived there together and we also have a tenancy agreement in both our names for a condo that we lived in for a 1 year period. We also have photos etc. We are planning to get married and would do so before applying if it would make a big difference to the application. 

4) If we are declined on the basis of the UKBA deeming that the relationship is not 'durable' would it be ok to marry and reapply?

5) I have savings in a UK account of 25,000 pounds (Not sure if this is relevant or not)

Many thanks and apologies for so many questions.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

flipmode said:


> Hi There,
> 
> I have been living in Bangkok, Thailand for the past 4 years (currently still in Bangkok)
> 
> ...


That shouldn't be necessary. Your partner has to apply for Swiss family permit (similar to EEA family permit) before arriving in UK, and you need to be in UK before her or arriving together.



> 2) Does anyone know if it is possible to get my British citizenship back in the future? I realize that this is possible if you're relinquishing it in order to gain another citizenship but since this is not the case would there be any possibility? Does anybody know if my national Insurance number will change after relinquishing my British citizenship?


If it was necessary to renounce your citizenship in order to gain or retain another nationality, you have the right, once only, to resume your British citizenship. In all other cases, including yours, it's at the discretion of the Home Secretary whether to allow it or not. You should speak to the Home Office about it and take further professional advice before taking this important step. If you can meet the requirements for a spouse/partner visa, renunciation won't be necessary.



> 3) Is not being married a big disadvantage? As i previously stated we have been living together in Bangkok for over 2 years, from April '11 until now.
> We have letters on headed paper from serviced apartments stating the dates we lived there together and we also have a tenancy agreement in both our names for a condo that we lived in for a 1 year period. We also have photos etc. We are planning to get married and would do so before applying if it would make a big difference to the application.


If you can meet the criteria for unmarried partnership - living in a relationship akin to marriage for 2 years, marriage isn't necessary. 



> 4) If we are declined on the basis of the UKBA deeming that the relationship is not 'durable' would it be ok to marry and reapply?


Marriage does remove the needs for previous cohabitation, but Home Office can still query the veracity of your relationship so you should still enclose evidence of a genuine partnership.



> 5) I have savings in a UK account of 25,000 pounds (Not sure if this is relevant or not).


Not for gaining Swiss family permit. But it's obviously useful for you to relocate and start a new life in UK.


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## flipmode (Jul 4, 2013)

Daer Joppa,

Many thanks for such a prompt response and for answering my questions.

Just to clarify, would i still need to give up my British citizenship to apply for the swiss family permit?

Can we apply for the Swiss family permit while we are *both* in Bangkok (we will be entering the UK together) even though i am not currently employed in the UK as i have been living and working in Bkk for the past 4 years. 

How does one go about applying for the swiss family permit?

By the way, I was born and raised in the UK and have never actually lived in Switzerland, just in case this make a difference.

Much appreciated
Kind Regards,
Chris


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

You can't apply for Swiss family permit if you still have British citizenship, because you will not be deemed to be exercising treaty rights in UK as Swiss citizen but just using your right of abode as British citizen. The rules changed in October last year to clarify this for dual-nationals. How you obtained your Swiss citizenship is immaterial.

Another option without having to renounce British citizenship is to use the Surinder Singh provision, by living with your partner in another EEA country (not UK or Switzerland) and working or being self-employed. Then she can apply for EEA family permit when coming to UK with you. But don't underestimate the expense, the red tape and the difficulty of relocating and finding a proper job in Europe, and you should weigh them up against meeting the financial requirement for UK partner visa under the family route.


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## flipmode (Jul 4, 2013)

Thanks Joppa!

I did look into the Surinder Singh provision but due to some of the reasons you have mentioned I decided against it.

Am i right in saying that the application form for the Swiss family permit is the same as the EEA permit, *Application Form VAF5*? There is limited info on the UKBA website.

One thing i don't fully understand, since i am currently living in Thailand and not working/studying in the UK is it not possible for the UKBA to decline the swiss family permit on the grounds that i am outside the UK and not currently exercising my treaty rights in the UK as a Swiss citizen? Or is the fact that i will be moving to the UK and exercising these rights in the future sufficient?

Again, Many thanks for taking the time to help.

Kind Regards


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Yes, you as a Swiss citizen can come to UK to look for work etc for up to 3 months, so just the intention to come to UK is sufficient. When she successfully obtains her Swiss family permit and moves with you to UK, you then need to be exercising treaty rights, typically by working, before they will issue her 5-year resident card.

About renouncing British citizenship. As resuming it is at the discretion of Home Office, they may take a dim view seeing that you renounced it in order to circumvent UK immigration rules to facilitate your partner's UK entry, though legitimately.


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## flipmode (Jul 4, 2013)

Many thanks for answering all of my questions Joppa!

Does anyone know If I will keep my UK National Insurance number after relinquishing my British citizenship? I would like to clarify this as I have been making NI contributions for many many years.

**I removed a question from this post as it was answered in a thread i just read**

Many Thanks!
Kind Regards.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Your NI number will stay the same, as it doesn't depend on being a British national. And your state pensions right will be preserved. On renouncing British citizenship, you can no longer vote in parliamentary elections - only local and Euro, and you can be deported to Switzerland when convicted of a serious offence if a judge so recommends at the conclusion of your sentence. And while you have general right to live and work in UK, it isn't absolute and you can be removed if you commit serious immigration offence. And who knows what happens if UK withdraws from EU?


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## flipmode (Jul 4, 2013)

Joppa said:


> Your NI number will stay the same, as it doesn't depend on being a British national. And your state pensions right will be preserved. On renouncing British citizenship, you can no longer vote in parliamentary elections - only local and Euro, and you can be deported to Switzerland when convicted of a serious offence if a judge so recommends at the conclusion of your sentence. And while you have general right to live and work in UK, it isn't absolute and you can be removed if you commit serious immigration offence. And who knows what happens if UK withdraws from EU?


Dear Joppa,

Many thanks for all of your help, It is very much appreciated!

I have a couple of further questions if you don't mind.

Am I correct in thinking that after 5 years of continuous living in the UK as a Swiss citizen I can apply for permanent residence? 

After our arrival in the UK (if the swiss family permit is granted) can we apply for the residence card immediately? Or do I first have to have proof that I am exercising my treaty rights?

Again, Many Thanks.

Regards


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Yes, you get permanent residency after 5 years.
In order to be issued residence card (after being here for 3 months), you need to be exercising treaty rights, such as by working. If you apply for the card too soon, they will either turn it down or delay processing until the 3-month window is closed.


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## flipmode (Jul 4, 2013)

Joppa said:


> Yes, you get permanent residency after 5 years.
> In order to be issued residence card (after being here for 3 months), you need to be exercising treaty rights, such as by working. If you apply for the card too soon, they will either turn it down or delay processing until the 3-month window is closed.


Thanks Joppa,

Does the EEA national also need to apply for a residence card? I remember reading something about registration...

I know this is just speculation, but would one be safe if they had already obtained PR and the UK later left the EU. In other words, is it as permanent as the name suggests? 

Apologies for all the questions.

Cheers


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

No, you don't but it may speed up the issue of residence card if you apply at the same time for registration certificate on form EEA1 (put two applications in the same envelope). There is now a fee of £55 per application, so £110 for two.

Once you get your permanent residency, you will retain it even if UK were to leave EU, though since nothing has been decided, you should investigate again nearer the time.


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## flipmode (Jul 4, 2013)

Joppa said:


> No, you don't but it may speed up the issue of residence card if you apply at the same time for registration certificate on form EEA1 (put two applications in the same envelope). There is now a fee of £55 per application, so £110 for two.
> 
> Once you get your permanent residency, you will retain it even if UK were to leave EU, though since nothing has been decided, you should investigate again nearer the time.


Dear Joppa,

Thanks for such a quick reply - as usual  You're very generous with your time.

I have lived with my partner in Bangkok for 2 years and 3 months.
We have an Affidavit of Residence (witnessed and signed by a notary public) which lists all places of joint residence in that time period. We also have official Letters from the management of serviced apartments we have lived at, and a lease agreement for a private condo rental, all of which were used to certify the Affidavit of residence.

Since 17/04/2011 which is when cohabitation started up until the present day, there has been one gap which was just under 6 weeks (I travelled to London alone for a family issue) this was between 27/10/2011 until 11/12/2011. I have evidence of the flight to London and the Return flight back to Bangkok. Since this is an unmarried partner application is it likely to have any impact on the swiss family permit application? A short 6 week gap in a 27 month period seems quite reasonable to me, but would like to clarify whether or not the UKBA would be likely to share my view.

My partner was previously refused a visit visa to the UK due to not holding funds in her account for the required 28 day period - would this likely be an issue?

Many thanks,
kind regards.


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## flipmode (Jul 4, 2013)

Hi There,

I have just received a copy of the letter from the UKBA that I requested regarding the refusal of my partners visitor visa in 2011, It was applied for when i was dealing with a family issue in the UK in the 6 week gap i mention above.

One thing that concerns me, something I was not aware of until today - the refusal letter says:

*'You have applied for a visa for a 10 day holiday. You have stated that you are traveling alone and that you do not have any friends or family in the UK'*

What worries me is that I was in the UK when she applied for this visit visa and was not aware that this statement was made. She used a local Bangkok visa company for help with the application process. Considering that I was in the UK at the time could this be a potential issue? She was certainly not trying to mislead anyone and I am a little confused as to why it was even mentioned. 

It then states the reason for the refusal which was due to the funds not being in her account for long enough, and not enough evidence of where the funds came from etc. 

Sorry for the essay.

Many Thanks!!


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