# Help from Unexpected Quarters



## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

So now it's official: income from drugs, prostitution and illicit gambling is to be included when estimating Spain's gross domestic product.
It would seem that including these activities has reduced estimated public debt and given a boost to the economy..(El Pais)

Needs must when the devil drives, I suppose...


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## Pazcat (Mar 24, 2010)

Legalise the lot of it and tax it then. It would increase revenue, efficiency and take a huge strain off of law enforcement.


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

Pazcat said:


> Legalise the lot of it and tax it then. It would increase revenue, efficiency and take a huge strain off of law enforcement.


And have the added benefit of taking the business away from organised criminals.


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## zenkarma (Feb 15, 2013)

Don't you just love the way governments twiddle with the figures (or ways of collecting them) to make things look far better than they actually are?


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Camoron's lot are doing the same so don't blame Spain.

From Yesterday's Gruniad:
Accounting for drugs and prostitution to help push UK economy up by £65bn | Business | theguardian.com


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## Chopera (Apr 22, 2013)

Italy has done it recently - must be some kind of standardisation in the way growth is measured. 

(BTW Prostitution is legal in Spain anyway)

Also including these in GDP figures doesn't reduce gross debt unless more taxes are taken, but it does increase growth, and since debt is usually quoted as a percentage of growth it would make the figures appear better.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Chopera said:


> Italy has done it recently - must be some kind of standardisation in the way growth is measured.
> 
> (BTW Prostitution is legal in Spain anyway)
> 
> Also including these in GDP figures doesn't reduce gross debt unless more taxes are taken, but it does increase growth, and since debt is usually quoted as a percentage of growth it would make the figures appear better.


It's being done all over Europe, apparently. As you say, it won't do anything to change the underlying situation.
Prostitution is a kind of grey area here, isn't it? I seem to remember reading about a kind of Catch 22 situation where earning your living as a sex worker is legal but renting a room to someone to ply that trade isn't?


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## zenkarma (Feb 15, 2013)

baldilocks said:


> Camoron's lot are doing the same so don't blame Spain


I'm not blaming Spain, I'm pointing the finger at governments _per se_. That includes all governments, not just the Spanish one.

It just amazes me that when it suits them (governments) they include figures in their GDP output that includes illegal activities. I mean wtf? How can you include in GDP, figures for an activity the government has deemed illegal? If its illegal, it isn't supposed to happen or take place!!!!

It's just more figure twiddling and dishonesty as far as I'm concerned. And people wonder why I don't trust a single statistic governments come out with.


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## zenkarma (Feb 15, 2013)

Chopera said:


> Also including these in GDP figures doesn't reduce gross debt unless more taxes are taken, but it does increase growth, and since debt is usually quoted as a percentage of growth it would make the figures appear better.


Bingo!

Of course it doesn't reduce debt as no taxation is applicable to illegal activities. But as you say it does increase the overall economic output figure, which makes it look as if the economy is doing better than it actually is.

So GDP rises and tax intake reduces and GDP per capita is declines. More output is being produced by a larger workforce that are becoming less and less productive. 

Good stuff!


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

zenkarma said:


> Bingo!
> 
> Of course it doesn't reduce debt as no taxation is applicable to illegal activities. But as you say it does increase the overall economic output figure, which makes it look as if the economy is doing better than it actually is.
> 
> ...


more smoke and mirrors, Houdini would have been proud.


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## 213979 (Apr 11, 2013)

Chopera said:


> Italy has done it recently - must be some kind of standardisation in the way growth is measured.
> *
> (BTW Prostitution is legal in Spain anyway)
> *
> Also including these in GDP figures doesn't reduce gross debt unless more taxes are taken, but it does increase growth, and since debt is usually quoted as a percentage of growth it would make the figures appear better.


No it isn't.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

elenetxu said:


> No it isn't.


50/50



> El ejercicio de la prostitución en si mismo *no está perseguido por la ley* española, pero *sí está tipificado* penalmente, y castigado con 2 a 4 años de prisión, el *proxenetismo* o explotación sexual de una persona desde una posición de superioridad o de abuso, obteniendo beneficio económico. *Lo que hace el chulo*. Así lo recoge el artículo *188 del Código Penal*, sin utilizar el término proxeneta.


¿Por qué la prostitución no es legal ni ilegal? | Los PQ de Romanillos


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

When I was growing up many moons ago I was taught to respect people, older people, policemen, teachers, priests, the Prime Minister. I used to think I was safe and secure in the hands of these upright, incorruptible, wise people.
This illusion in regard to politicians - the scales had long dropped from my eyes about the others- came in my early twenties when at the Wood Green Labour Club North London I met the then leading politicians such as Harold Wilson, Tony Benn, Shirley Williams, Douglas Jay and many more. I came to realise that not only did they have feet of clay, in many cases they had heads of wood.

It is really quite terrifying to know that the economy, our health service, the nuclear button, our whole lives, are in the hands of such people. I remember once doing a radio interview with an obviously poorly- briefed Tory Minister and to the joy of my colleagues, wiping the floor with him. But far from being proud and happy, I was terrified at the thought that he had so much power yet could be made to look incompetent by an insignificant minor politician from the sticks.

I know these people are human, flesh and blood like the rest of us. But it's no wonder that people are so apathetic and disillusioned andturn to someone like Farage when our 'leaders' are so obviously inept, cynical and in many cases corrupt.


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## jimenato (Nov 21, 2009)

Prostitution is legal in both Spain and the UK.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

jimenato said:


> Prostitution is legal in both Spain and the UK.


In theory yes but the law as it stands makes it difficult in the UK for sex workers to ply their trade safely.
Soliciting in the streets is against the law and if two sex workers operate from the same premises they can be charged with ' running a disorderly house'. Kerb crawlers can be prosecuted.
The International Union of Sex Workers, affiliated to the GMBU, is campaigning for a change in the 'disorderly house' law in the interests of safety. A sex worker working alone is obviously more vulnerable.
Since sex work has been a thriving occupation since time immemorial it is high time that it was completely legalised and regulated especially now its profits are employed to massage economic output Europe-wide.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

I see Jamaica is the latest country to legalise marijuana, for "religious and medical purposes". It will do their economy no harm at all.

As soon as this current right-wing government is history, I suspect Spain will do the same.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Alcalaina said:


> I see Jamaica is the latest country to legalise marijuana, for "religious and medical purposes". It will do their economy no harm at all.
> 
> As soon as this current right-wing government is history, I suspect Spain will do the same.


So you think Spain is going to pot then?


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## Chopera (Apr 22, 2013)

elenetxu said:


> No it isn't.


Oh yes it is!


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## MaidenScotland (Jun 6, 2009)

Many years ago Lindi St Clair who was a prostitute was chased by the IR in the UK and she paid up. I remember her well as she also bought the title of Lady of Laxton. I lived in the village and she would send everyone in the village a bottle of wine at Christmas and send us all a Christmas card with a premium rate number to phone and listen to her cracking her whip... Madam Whiplash.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

baldilocks said:


> So you think Spain is going to pot then?


Ha ha!

It's already the second-highest put-using country in Europe (after Czech Republic) so might as well get some tax revenue from it and help reduce the black economy.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Chopera said:


> Oh yes it is!


Pesky already posted the answer - it's not legal, but it's effectively been decriminalised. Pimping however is most definitely illegal.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

MaidenScotland said:


> Many years ago Lindi St Clair who was a prostitute was chased by the IR in the UK and she paid up. I remember her well as she also bought the title of Lady of Laxton. I lived in the village and she would send everyone in the village a bottle of wine at Christmas and send us all a Christmas card with a premium rate number to phone and listen to her cracking her whip... Madam Whiplash.


I've met Xaviera Hollander, she of 'Happy Hooker' fame, a couple of times. Seems very pleasant. She's now quite a fixture in the social life of Marbella, I gather.

I've come across a few other such people but they were nearly all male, wore suits and ties and worked in the prestigious whorehouse known as the Palace of Westminster...


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## MaidenScotland (Jun 6, 2009)

mrypg9 said:


> I've met Xaviera Hollander, she of 'Happy Hooker' fame, a couple of times. Seems very pleasant. She's now quite a fixture in the social life of Marbella, I gather.
> 
> I've come across a few other such people but they were nearly all male, wore suits and ties and worked in the prestigious whorehouse known as the Palace of Westminster...




Linzi called the tax man a pimp.. for living off immoral earnings..


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

MaidenScotland said:


> Linzi called the tax man a pimp.. for living off immoral earnings..


That was one of AP Herbert's misleading cases in his book _Uncommon Law_ Uncommon Law - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
in which Mr Albert Haddock brought a prosecution against HM Inspector of Taxes (as it was known then) for living of immoral earnings because a "lady" paid her income tax. Mr Justice Swallow found against HM Inspector. It was subsequently made nto an entertaining TV series.


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