# Circumcision in Italy



## tftjr

My wife and I are expecting a son and we are very excited. However, for various reasons, we both want to have our little man circumcised. We are not Jewish so does anyone have any advice for performing this procedure in Italy. We are willing to travel.


----------



## accbgb

Has your wife discussed this with her gynecologist? Surely he/she would be able to suggest a doctor in your area. Also, if you haven't done so already, look into pediatricians in your area and make inquiries there as well.

As you are probably aware, there are many reasons why circumcision can be medically appropriate despite the views of the anti-circumcision crowd taking hold in the US. Although circumcision may be less common in Italy (and Europe in general), that does not mean that it is not done at all or unavailable through the regular channels.


----------



## theabroma

Consult with your wife's ob-gyn or with your pediatrician for guidance and a referral. If that does not provide suitable help for you, I would recommend that you visit with a rabbi to discuss your particular situation. I cannot imagine that a mohel - the rabbi or special person who is trained to perform a circumcision, would refuse you, especially since you would be engaging him for his expertise and would not be seeking to have the religious service, or _bris_, performed as well.


----------



## BBCWatcher

There have been some scandals in the news involving botched surgeries performed by religious practitioners.


----------



## yosheryosh

less than 10% of boys are circumsized in europe, and the studies show the majority of that 10% were ones that were born overseas

so not much experience here by the doctors.


----------



## theabroma

yosheryosh said:


> less than 10% of boys are circumsized in europe, and the studies show the majority of that 10% were ones that were born overseas
> 
> so not much experience here by the doctors.


Even better reason to meet with a rabbi and seek a recommendation for a mohel ...


----------



## Philip63

Issues of religion aside, it's not an issue to take lightly because it can't be reversed. I personally take the position that I would not circumcise my children for the tremendous loss of sensitivity that they will have later in life. The counter arguments are mostly bogus (lower HIV rates- well, Europeans have far lower HIV infection rates, cleanliness- well, that is what the shower is for). Ultimately I am convinced it is just done out of custom. The rest of the world doesn't do it and they are just fine. 

I'm no activist but had a discussion with a friend of mine recently and he was adamantly against it and referred me here Intact America which was an eye-opening read.


----------



## accbgb

Philip63 said:


> Issues of religion aside, it's not an issue to take lightly because it can't be reversed. I personally take the position that I would not circumcise my children for the tremendous loss of sensitivity that they will have later in life. The counter arguments are mostly bogus (lower HIV rates- well, Europeans have far lower HIV infection rates, cleanliness- well, that is what the shower is for). Ultimately I am convinced it is just done out of custom. The rest of the world doesn't do it and they are just fine.
> 
> I'm no activist but had a discussion with a friend of mine recently and he was adamantly against it and referred me here Intact America _which was an eye-opening read_.


Well, of course; it was designed to be just that.

As for the "tremendous loss of sensitivity" - says who? I follow this issue from the sidelines and have seen many men who were circumcised well into adulthood for one reason or another and the majority have found the overall result to be positive and claims of loss of sensitivity to be greatly exaggerated.

And, I would add that even the CDCP (US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention) finds value in circumcision:

http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/pdf/prevention_research_malecircumcision.pdf
http://www.cdc.gov/nchhstp/newsroom/docs/MC-factsheet-508.pdf


----------



## Philip63

accbgb said:


> Well, of course; it was designed to be just that.
> 
> As for the "tremendous loss of sensitivity" - says who? I follow this issue from the sidelines and have seen many men who were circumcised well into adulthood for one reason or another and the majority have found the overall result to be positive and claims of loss of sensitivity to be greatly exaggerated.
> 
> And, I would add that even the CDCP (US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention) finds value in circumcision:
> 
> http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/pdf/prevention_research_malecircumcision.pdf
> http://www.cdc.gov/nchhstp/newsroom/docs/MC-factsheet-508.pdf[/QUOTE
> 
> 1) With respect to your first point, you'll be surprised....It's well-documented that there is a dramatic loss of sensitivity with circumcision. There are more than 10,000 nerve endings that are removed in the procedure. Read some of these articles.
> Just a few (!) from the NIH:
> Male circumcision decreases penile sensitivity as measured in a large cohort. - PubMed - NCBI
> Male circumcision and sexual function in men and women: a survey-based, cross-sectional study in Denmark. - PubMed - NCBI
> Fine-touch pressure thresholds in the adult penis. - PubMed - NCBI
> and a basic tutorial:
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreskin
> 
> 2) With respect to the CDC, they were heavily criticized in the US and abroad for their latest proclamations because they were largely authored by one man- the current chief. He has been accused of "cultural bias", cherry picking research and excluding other research. The fact remains that the US has the highest rate of HIV infections and the highest rate of circumcision in males. Health authorities in England, Canada, Australia, Finland, Denmark, Sweden, the Netherlands, and Germany all oppose routine infant circumcision on medical grounds.
> 
> CDC circumcision proposal getting thumbs down - Washington Times
> https://www.academia.edu/9603843/Do...sks_A_critique_of_the_proposed_CDC_guidelines
> http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/early/2013/03/12/peds.2012-2896.full.pdf
> 
> No lack of respect to the original poster-and if religion calls for it than it's a different story. All I'd say is wouldn't it be better to let the kid grow up and have him decide what to do? I have a lot of friends in the US who regret being circumcised (as do their wives).


----------



## accbgb

Philip63 said:


> ... All I'd say is wouldn't it be better to let the kid grow up and have him decide what to do? I have a lot of friends in the US who regret being circumcised (as do their wives).


People regret being circumcised because they have nothing to compare to and they read activist stuff like much of what has been posted in this thread. How can you miss what you never had? How can you debate the supposed lack of sensitivity if you have never known anything other than what you have now? Men who were circumcised as adults routinely state that they are happy with their choice; how do you explain that? Wives? What do they know other than what they read? Most American women have only experienced circumcised men; most European women the opposite. How can a member of either group offer an opinion on the other?

There have been many serious studies which have come to the conclusion that loss of sensitivity is not a serious issue. Indeed, if there is an issue at all, it may be that uncircumcised guys can be TOO sensitive which leads to all sorts of issues both in daily life and in their sexual activities.


----------



## Philip63

accbgb said:


> People regret being circumcised because they have nothing to compare to and they read activist stuff like much of what has been posted in this thread. How can you miss what you never had? How can you debate the supposed lack of sensitivity if you have never known anything other than what you have now? Men who were circumcised as adults routinely state that they are happy with their choice; how do you explain that? Wives? What do they know other than what they read? Most American women have only experienced circumcised men; most European women the opposite. How can a member of either group offer an opinion on the other?
> 
> There have been many serious studies which have come to the conclusion that loss of sensitivity is not a serious issue. Indeed, if there is an issue at all, it may be that uncircumcised guys can be TOO sensitive which leads to all sorts of issues both in daily life and in their sexual activities.



Although I clearly disagree I respect your opinion.

Most Americans think like you and that's OK. But the rest of the world doesn't. I find it telling that leading countries are moving away from it... and the incidence in the US as well is falling rapidly. I guess the US has the monopoly now on the best kind of 'member'?  

As far as who can express an opinion there have been studies on this too. And there are a few Americans that have had intercourse with Europeans/Latin Americans/Asians ya know  

I just find it hard to believe that removing between 10-20,000 nerve endings in your mind wouldn't make any difference. 

I should also say I never even thought about these things until one of my good buddies told me about it. I'm no activist by any figment of the imagination but I listened and there are some good points. I always thought it was bizarre that circumcision was practiced in the US quite frankly. I wasn't sure if it was because a lot of doctors were Muslim or Jewish, it was just some Puritan anti-masturbation campaign from the 1600s  or what lol 

All jokes aside in any case the body was made the way it was made for a reason. And it's been around far longer than the procedure. For my children my belief is let the child decide when he can make a decision because it is irreversible.


----------



## accbgb

Personally, I am neither for nor against circumcision. But there are a lot of crazy activists out there who are on a mission and someone has to be willing to argue the other side.

Insofar as 10 - 20,000 nerve endings go, it makes me wonder if uncircumcised men are more likely to suffer from premature ejaculation. I mean, after all, with all that extra stimulation...


----------



## Philip63

accbgb said:


> Personally, I am neither for nor against circumcision. But there are a lot of crazy activists out there who are on a mission and someone has to be willing to argue the other side.
> 
> Insofar as 10 - 20,000 nerve endings go, it makes me wonder if uncircumcised men are more likely to suffer from premature ejaculation. I mean, after all, with all that extra stimulation...


HAHAHAHA!!!

Naaaah. We've got it under control. 

Have a good day!


----------



## BBCWatcher

FWIW, I'm not in favor of my making _any_ irrevocable/irreversible decision without at least one damn good reason.


----------



## tftjr

Hi all. Thanks for all of the opinions and personal feelings. I'll keep the info in mind while looking for more answers.


----------

