# tax



## naphtali (Feb 8, 2012)

hi all .we are hoping to move to spain this year,how much tax would we pay on our state pensions,from uk,can anyone help.


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

naphtali said:


> hi all .we are hoping to move to spain this year,how much tax would we pay on our state pensions,from uk,can anyone help.


Naf All!
You take advantage of the tax allowances and make a joint return
You have to de register for tax in the UK though, which is not overly complicated


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

It depends entirely on the amount and source of your pensions.
I receive the State Retirement Pension but have a Final Salary Scheme Pension and other investment income and I very grudgingly pay what I consider to be too much tax!!

I was taxed when I earned the money that went to my future pension, now I'm being taxed on the income from those pensions....


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

mrypg9 said:


> It depends entirely on the amount and source of your pensions.
> I receive the State Retirement Pension but have a Final Salary Scheme Pension and other investment income and I very grudgingly pay what I consider to be too much tax!!
> 
> I was taxed when I earned the money that went to my future pension, now I'm being taxed on the income from those pensions....


Please re read the OP's post 
*How much would we pay on our State Pensions*, they mention no other pensions or income at all


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Stravinsky said:


> Please re read the OP's post
> *How much would we pay on our State Pensions*, they mention no other pensions or income at all


But if they have other pensions -and they didn't say they didn't - the state pension will be lumped with them for tax purposes.

It also depends on the amount of total pension and other benefits or assets, such as interest on savings...not that there's much of that now.


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## 90199 (Mar 21, 2010)

Heres what I do, I have a Govt pension which I have to pay tax on at source in the U.K. However I also have an OAP, which I applied to the U.K. tax HMRC, to transfer it to Spain for taxation and because I am under the Spanish threshold for taxation purposes, I do not have to pay tax on my OAP.

Hope this helps.


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## naphtali (Feb 8, 2012)

Hepa said:


> Heres what I do, I have a Govt pension which I have to pay tax on at source in the U.K. However I also have an OAP, which I applied to the U.K. tax HMRC, to transfer it to Spain for taxation and because I am under the Spanish threshold for taxation purposes, I do not have to pay tax on my OAP.
> 
> Hope this helps.


Hi thanks great help .I only have one pension.my o.a.p.


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## 90199 (Mar 21, 2010)

Here is the link you need to download the form,
Form Spain/Individual - Application for relief at source from UK Income Tax/Claim to repayment of UK Income Tax


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

mrypg9 said:


> But if they have other pensions -and they didn't say they didn't - the state pension will be lumped with them for tax purposes.
> 
> It also depends on the amount of total pension and other benefits or assets, such as interest on savings...not that there's much of that now.




I know, but from experience I learned things get confused when more is bought into the discussion, hence why I answered the question asked. As it happens, it _is_ just the one pension and therefore it should be "naf all"


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## Nonnamags (Jan 10, 2013)

*Tax and pensions*



mrypg9 said:


> It depends entirely on the amount and source of your pensions.
> I receive the State Retirement Pension but have a Final Salary Scheme Pension and other investment income and I very grudgingly pay what I consider to be too much tax!!
> 
> I was taxed when I earned the money that went to my future pension, now I'm being taxed on the income from those pensions....


Does anyone know limits for tax decisions? As in comparators for UK and Spain - how does one decide on which country gets the tax? If resident in Spain why pay tax in UK? 
Confused.com!lane:


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

Nonnamags said:


> Does anyone know limits for tax decisions? As in comparators for UK and Spain - how does one decide on which country gets the tax? If resident in Spain why pay tax in UK?
> Confused.com!lane:


Heres a site that can tell you
Spanish tax rates and allowances 2012. Tax rates Spain.


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## 90199 (Mar 21, 2010)

I am a Spanish resident, however I have a U.K. govt pension that is taxed and can only be taxed in the U.K. It is in this case the HMRC that decide.

However once you reside in Spain 6 months, you have by law to submit a tax return whether or not you have an income in Spain.


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## Nonnamags (Jan 10, 2013)

Crikey! Nil returns too? How do we do that? At the tributaria?


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

Nonnamags said:


> Crikey! Nil returns too? How do we do that? At the tributaria?


I don't believe that it's 'the law' to submit a tax return but it is certainly in your interest!

By submitting a tax return you are then 'in the system'. This will then help with any CGT, IHT, health care etc. etc. If you are NOT 'in the system', then many of the tax benefits are not available to you!

Basically, you fill in a normal tax return (including govt. pension) and then specify tax already paid in UK - you may even find that you get a refund!


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## Nonnamags (Jan 10, 2013)

Thank you for this - with regards to a tax return, where do we get a form? Ta muchly


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## Rostra (Jan 23, 2013)

You are obliged to declare your world wide income in the country of which you are resident. If you have a UK Goverrnment pension (civil service, teacher, police etc) it MUST be taxed in the UK, but all other income including state pension should be excluded from UK tax and declared in the country where you live. 
You will then be able to take advantage of the tax allowances in both countries.
None of the tax paid in the UK will be refunded by Spain even if your declaration shows that you owe less tax than you have already paid.


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## 90199 (Mar 21, 2010)

The tax office boss here in Valverde, told me that it was a legal requirement for a resident of six months or more to fill in a tax return.

The tax return can be done online, however we made an appointment at the tax office, and one of the persons employed therein did it for us.

You could also use a Gestor, we tried that but the advice he and his son gave us, was that in our circumstances it was not necessary, wrong advice! Fortunately the Boss at the taxation office sympathized with our predicament, advised wrongly, and we did not get fined.


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## Nonnamags (Jan 10, 2013)

Really helpful thank you. I too a, not a fan of gestures....


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## Rostra (Jan 23, 2013)

Nonnamags said:


> Really helpful thank you. I too a, not a fan of gestures....


Lol - I am a Gestor - been doing it for 27 years, but only give advice if I think I know what I'm talking about


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## Nonnamags (Jan 10, 2013)

Whoops!! Remove size 3 from boca! Lol! I'm just tight and won't pay money if I can do anything myself.......


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Nonnamags said:


> Whoops!! Remove size 3 from boca! Lol! I'm just tight and won't pay money if I can do anything myself.......


it's having the time though

in my case I'm perfectly capable of dealing with any & every funcionario & bit of paperwork you can throw at me - I used to interpret at various offices etc. for people who don't speak Spanish

but the office for just about everything I might need myself is in the next town - to do anything I'd have to take a day off work - & that would cost me more in an hour or so than I pay my gestor a month.............


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## Rostra (Jan 23, 2013)

Nonnamags said:


> Thank you for this - with regards to a tax return, where do we get a form? Ta muchly


If you don't want to download the software so you can do the return on line, the tax office still sell paper forms you can fill in by hand.

If you have taxed income in the UK, it needs to be shown on the form (income exempt except for calculating the tax rate) and then the amount of tax paid can be deducted from the final tax bill (tax paid under a double taxation treaty) - if the final result is negative, you will NOT get a refund from Spain of any tax paid in the UK.


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## Nonnamags (Jan 10, 2013)

I understand completely. its a real *** driving 30+ kms, and the wait can be horrendous. However, I did manage to complete the registration for autonoma at both Hacienda and Social Security yesterday ready for 1 Feb start date. My Spanish isn't brilliant yet, and found some of it really hard going. My main concerns are these now:

if I pay into the social se unity fund, does this entitle me AND my family to free healthcare at the centro de salud? 

I wont be earning a massive amount of money, maybe 3-600 euros initially per month. is there a minimum threshold before I have to start paying tax?

how uch does it cost approx to pay a gestori to take care of the tax return?

i am so grateful to be able to learn from the experiences of others on this forum - such a massive help!

Thanks to anyone who can help.


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

Nonnamags said:


> I understand completely. its a real *** driving 30+ kms, and the wait can be horrendous. However, I did manage to complete the registration for autonoma at both Hacienda and Social Security yesterday ready for 1 Feb start date. My Spanish isn't brilliant yet, and found some of it really hard going. My main concerns are these now:
> 
> if I pay into the social se unity fund, does this entitle me AND my family to free healthcare at the centro de salud?
> 
> ...



Just a couple of answers - yes, your SS payments cover ALL of your family (I assume that you're married or else it gets complicated). The charge is about 200-260 euros per month depending upon age.

Tax starts from 0! OUCH!!!!!
Up to 17,707 euros per annum, the rate is 24.75% After that it keeps going up - google it.

As an autonomo/a you will have to submit returns on a regular basis so the costs are not small - others will tell you exactly what to expect but I would suggest asking a few assesors first.


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## Nonnamags (Jan 10, 2013)

blimey! best I find out what I can claim back on expenses then....hard through the grapevine that as income will be so low I should be able to claim back the SS payments - anyone any the wiser? seems Im going to be paying half of expected lowly earnings in outgoings.....boo!


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## anles (Feb 11, 2009)

snikpoh said:


> Just a couple of answers - yes, your SS payments cover ALL of your family (I assume that you're married or else it gets complicated). The charge is about 200-260 euros per month depending upon age.
> 
> Tax starts from 0! OUCH!!!!!
> Up to 17,707 euros per annum, the rate is 24.75% After that it keeps going up - google it.
> ...


But it isn't 24% on your gross earnings. There are calculations to work out how much tax you pay. You deduct your social security payments, your other deductions (personal, family, etc) from your gross anual income and that gives you the base figure which is what you apply the 24% or whatever to; you then divide that amount by your gross income and multiply by 100 which then gives you the tax percentage you apply. It can be 8%, 15%.


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## Nonnamags (Jan 10, 2013)

That sounds more like what I want to hear, you knowledgable person you!! Cheered me up a bit, although it sounds as a bit complicated. . . . I think given the minuscule amounts I will earn, I'll have to do the return myself. I understand that there's a download available, but where would the stuff I can discount be? Ta muchly in advance....


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## anles (Feb 11, 2009)

Nonnamags said:


> That sounds more like what I want to hear, you knowledgable person you!! Cheered me up a bit, although it sounds as a bit complicated. . . . I think given the minuscule amounts I will earn, I'll have to do the return myself. I understand that there's a download available, but where would the stuff I can discount be? Ta muchly in advance....


I would recomend that you use the service of a reputable gestor who specialises in this kind of thing because if you are billing businesses you have to apply a discount, certain servises have to pay VAT and it can be complicated at first. However, if you don't want to do this, there are two options by modules (only for businesses with a big turnover) and simplified. To go along the simplified route, you have to present a form called Modelo 130 each quarter. You have to have book for your income, your expenditure, and VAT if appliable (which also has to liquidated quarterly). Basically with the simplified version you add up your income, deduct your expenses and pay 20% (I'm not sure if this figure has changed) on the balance. The first quarter starts on the 1st of Jan and end on the 31st of march and the modelo 130 has to be presented before the 20th of April and so on. 
The deductions I was talking about previously don't apply to self-employed. But your expenses include your Social Security payments, rent, supplies, etc.


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## Nonnamags (Jan 10, 2013)

Very comprehensive thank you. I will heed your advice and seek a Gestor I think... : )


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## Nonnamags (Jan 10, 2013)

Hello again Anles.. Need some more help please if possible...been to the Hacienda today to complete my forms for 20 April deadline. . . . I was told as I have already been deducted the 9% ( work as autonomos for academy - no IVA) and I started this FebruRy nothing to complete and no money to pay, the Renta is also for the preceding year? Help I am very confused! Also my social security, I had a 55 euro fine As direct debit could to be collected end of month....Andalucia day, banks shut unable to pay in cash salary.... Aaargh! I only earn 288 euros a month!


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