# The **** has hit the fan



## MaidenScotland

Stay safe, do not go outside. 

Giza zoo on fire, army has just passed my house on their way to (guess) Mohandiseen where a friend who lives on Gamat El Dowel tells me there are gunshots.


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## marenostrum

Akways thought, even in Jan 2011, that they should have stuck with the devil they knew...Mubarak.

This place is turning into Algeria 1992, the script is exactly the same and we know how many people died there during a period of ten years...


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## canuck2010

Well, emergency rule and curfews can't be far behind. I see on twitter there are some incidences by maadi grand mall, and even in Degla ( but no specific confirmation), otherwise it's quiet in maadi. 

Very sad, many Coptic and Christians being targeted across the country right now.

Sent from my iPad using ExpatForum


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## MaidenScotland

1.Autostrad road : from nasr city to airport is totally closed

2.Bahr Aazam street in Giza is totally closed

3.el gamaa bridge in Giza
is totally closed 

4. 6th October bridge is totally closed

5. 15th May
bridge is totally closed

6. Kasr el Nile bridge is totally closed 

7. Salah Salem st. Is totally closed in Heliopolis area 

8. Marghani st. & 7
omarat st. Is closed

9. NA road : fifth settlement , nasr city is
closed.

10. Gam3et El Dwal and el Batal street, Mohandessin is a land of war.

Just reposted the above from Facebook, there are cars on the 6th October but very few.


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## emmab73

I knew things would go to hell in a hand basket here as soon as I got back from vacation, not to worry though I have stocked up on Bisto and Oxo cubes


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## Gounie

Live updates: Egyptian police attack Muslim Brotherhood sit-ins in Cairo - Egypt - Ahram Online

Updates from all around the country. Dahar Square in Hurghada blocked.


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## Guest

Wooh Wee! I'll second that it has hit the fan today!

A CSF vehicle hit and a policeman injured near Rabaa Sq. targeted and flipped from October Bridge. Watch the video at around :40.


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## emmab73

This isn't going to settle down any time soon is it?


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## hhaddad

*Stay safe*

Thank goodness we're not there at the moment to all of you stay safe batten down the hatches and don't take any chances this is not over by a long shot.


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## Guest

Numbers dead from the crack down on these two protests have been reported anywhere from 15 - 800 out of the thousands there. Initial reports are often all over the place and the numbers will be more clear in a few days, if things settle back down. If it's as high as some claim I think today may be referenced by some as Egypt's Tienanmen Square.


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## Jud2

*Maadi Sakanet area*

I live right by the hospital at Sakanet and all has been quiet here so far today. I saw the news this morning and my group decided to play it safe and stay home. Can anyone actually see anything. As usual the news is not a lot of help.


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## Guest




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## Guest

Under #Egypt on facebook there is graphic content of mass murder in Rabaa and Nahda squares and claims of up to 2200 dead. 

*Warning* it's really horrible pictures of burned charred bodies in tents, brains blown out, bloodied dead bodies everywhere. I don't want to link it here.


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## MaidenScotland

Just received a message from our shelters 

they are attacking areas around the shelters
invaded the police stations close to the cat shelter
kidnapped the officers and stole the arms
heavy guns near both shelters


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## MaidenScotland

I am watching Sky Arabic news... flitting between the stations but this one is the one I am monitoring most.


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## MaidenScotland

Sky News Journalist killed; Violence flares in Suez; Nour Party denounces violence -- 2:52PM:

Egypt's Ministry of Interior has announced that seven police officers have been killed and 66 others injured in clashes at Rabaa al-Adaweya and Nahda Square. It is not yet clear whether the police have suffered casualties at other locations.

Meanwhile, two journalists have been killed amid clashes near Rabaa al-Adaweya. Sky News photojournalist Michael Douglas, 59, was killed after being shot dead during the Rabaa dispersal. Egyptian journalist from Dubai, Habeeba Abdelaziz, was also pronounced dead during the chaos.


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## emmab73

Is it time to pack the "go bag" I wonder


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## Guest

Still pictures of earlier attack on CSF vehicle flipped off bridge.



















Another angle


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## Guest

Further automatic weapons live fire


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## canuck2010

I think it's safe to say the MB are finished in Egypt.


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## Jud2

I hope so has the MB ever done anything that made the country better?


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## canuck2010

Oh...state of emergency for 1 month starting at 4pm!


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## emmab73

I am feeling a little scared for the first time here


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## emmab73

canuck2010 said:


> Oh...state of emergency for 1 month starting at 4pm!


Where did you read that? I have feared this for a while, it has insurance implications for expats I think


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## Guest

emmab73 said:


> Where did you read that? I have feared this for a while, it has insurance implications for expats I think


Egypt declares one-month state of emergency

Also

Snipers on rooftops posted on Twitter


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## Guest

> Egypt's authorities closed Wednesday all sites of historical landmarks, including the Giza Pyramids, the Egyptian Museum near Cairo's Tahrir Square and the Alexandria Museum as of 2 p.m. (1200 GMT) due to ongoing violence in the country.


 Source


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## emmab73

Thanks Zaytoona for these updates


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## canuck2010

I'm seeing on twitter that some MB members are building a stage for a sit-in near Maadi Grand mall.

edit: medan el arab in Maadi, is that near Grand Mall?

edit: ok apparently they are at the bottom of nasr street where it meets the railroad tracks. About 1km up the road from Maadi Grand Mall, but relatively close.


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## Guest

> The Central Bank of Egypt ordered banks to shut down after the outbreak of violence earlier.


 Banks close early amid unrest this includes the Egyptian Stock Exchange.


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## Guest

> Egypt's Health Ministry said 95 people had been killed, 874 people had been wounded, and they're waiting to get more details. The dead are both from police and civilians.


 Source


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## Guest

> There are conflicting casualty reports. According to the Health Ministry, at least 95 people have been killed and 874 injured in Wednesday’s violence.
> 
> "The dead are both from police and civilians," said the ministry's spokesman, Hamdi Abdel Karim.
> 
> AFP said its reporters had counted 124 deaths. But Muslim Brotherhood spokesman Gehad El-Haddad claimed that as many as 2,000 people had been killed and 10,000 injured in the police operation. (Which is also being reported on Al Jazeera Arabic while Al Jazeera English is reporting a much lower death toll number.)


From RT: 'War zone': Scores killed in Egypt violence, month long state of emergency proclaimed


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## Guest

From Egyptian Streets on fb.



> Preliminary list of Coptic churches and properties that were attacked by the Muslim Brotherhood:
> قائمة مبدأية بالكنائس والممتلكات الكنسية او القبطية التي تم الاعتداء عليها حتي الآن
> 1-كنيسة العذراء والانبا ابرام - دلجا - مركز دير مواس - المنيا
> 1- St.Mary and Anba Abraam church, Delga, Deir Mawas, El Minia
> 2-كنيسة مارمينا - حى ابو هلال - بندر المنيا
> 2- St. George Church, Abu Hilal district, El Minia
> 3-كنيسة مارجرس - ارض المطرانيه - سوهاج...
> 3- St George Church, Souhag
> 4-كنيسة العذراء - قرية النازله - مركز يوسف الصديق - الفيوم
> 4-St Mary church, El Nazla village, Fayoum
> 5-الكنيسه المعمدانيه - بنى مزار المنيا
> 5- The Baptist church, Beni Mazar, El Minia
> 6- اعتداءات على محلات الاقباط فى شارع الجمهوريه - باسيوط
> 6-Coptic owned shops and properties in El Gomohoria street, Asuit
> 7-قام أنصار الرئيس المعزول بالسويس باقتحام مدرسة ”الفرنسيسكان“ وحرق عدد من السيارات أمام كنيسة الراعى الصالح.
> 7- Raiding the " Franciscan" school in Suez and setting several cars on fire in front of " The Good Shepherd church"
> 8 - مطرانية دير مواس المنيا
> 8- St Mark's church, Deir Mawas, El Minia
> 9- مدرسة الراهبات بني سويف
> 7- The catholic school in Beni Suif
> 10- جمعية أصدقاء الكتاب المقدس الفيوم !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 10- Bible study center in Fayoum


Also 



> The Library of Alexandria (Bibliotheca Alexandrina) is being attacked by armed groups (identified by State news as Morsi supporters) amid on-going clashes in Alexandria.
> 
> The Library is one of Egypt's largest libraries and cultural centres and is a commemoration to the historic Library of Alexandria that was destroyed hundreds of years ago.
> 
> The attack comes after nine are reported to have been killed in Alexandria, and 95 reported killed across Egypt.
> 
> == In other news ==
> 
> ** The Christian Youth Club in Minya has been torched by Islamists
> 
> ** Military given the right to "do all that is necessary to protect state institutions and civilians"
> 
> ** Reports indicate gunfire has erupted near Tora prison where senior Muslim Brotherhood figures and former Mubarak-regime politicians are being held.


Also see #Alexandria on fb. There is more than one organization reporting the attack on the library there.


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## canuck2010

Attacking the library of Alexandria, history repeats itself.

--
and in Maadi:


*#‎Maadi‬:
Latest developments of the ‪#‎ProMorsi‬/‪#‎Ikhwan‬ Maadi Sit-in they are starting:
1- Breaking several Light posts and the pavement in order to block all branching streets. So far blockades at Orbit & Olympic Stadium, Golf Street, and the street parallel to the Maadi Grand Mall.
2- Built a substantial portion of the stadium and have erected Morsi pictures in the area.
3- About 100 ProMorsi protestors in which about 25 of them are women, and most are older men.
4- Some verbal arguments between Microbus drivers [who's garage is in 3arab] and with the change of their stop at Orbit/Olympic Stadium at the koshk.
5- Collected a large amount of rocks from the train tracks, and are re-burning tyres. *


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## Guest

Security forces in Cairo deployed LRAD mounted on HMMWV turrets.



















Demo of what LRAD do. They used them in Boston after the marathon bombing.








> LARD is used to target the suspected house were the main threat personnel are located while being operated by a Soldier in a nearby safe location. The LRAD 500X is used to broadcast command information and surrender messages to the people in the town as well as to the threat personnel being targeted.
> 
> LRAD 500X is lightweight and can be easily transported to provide military and security personnel long-range communications and a highly effective hailing and warning capability. LRAD 500X has been selected by the U.S. Navy and U.S. Army as their acoustic hailing device (AHD) for small vessels and vehicles.
> 
> The superior voice intelligibility and clarity of LRAD 500X provides a highly directional audio beam that achieves maximum sound projection and penetration beyond 2000 meters. LRAD 500X operators have the ability to issue clear, authoritative verbal commands, followed with powerful deterrent tones to enhance response capabilities. The extended frequency range of LRAD 500X ensures voice commands will be clearly understood.


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## jojo

A lot of "not good" news coming out of Egypt. Stay safe you lot!

Jo xxx


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## MaidenScotland

*posed deaths..*


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## marenostrum

canuck2010 said:


> I think it's safe to say the MB are finished in Egypt.


No.
It will turn out like Algeria in 1992. 
Car bombs going off left right and center with a lot of murders between different factions.


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## hhaddad

I see theM.B. propaganda machine is still at work with the help of AL jazeera who supports them since 30 June Quote 2500 Martyrs and 10000 injured at arbaa adawya unquote.
Who knows what realy happened after the injuries sustained by inocent citizens as the result of torture by the M.B. in the tents of arbaa or the kids of 4 to 16 years old demonstrating with there death shrouds or carrying banners that they can't understand.(most of them from orphanages supported by the M.B.)


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## MaidenScotland

There is a MB spokeswomen on sky news saying 2,200 have been murdered... 
There is a man sitting beside her saying nothing. 

I am not a fan of the MB nor of the army and I would not rejoice at one person dying but the MB was caught during the week staging scenes showing injured people... they forget that youtube is out there and most things will end up there. I would not believe a word the MB says


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## canuck2010

hhaddad said:


> I see theM.B. propaganda machine is still at work with the help of AL jazeera who supports them since 30 June Quote 2500 Martyrs and 10000 injured at arbaa adawya unquote.
> Who knows what realy happened after the injuries sustained by inocent citizens as the result of torture by the M.B. in the tents of arbaa or the kids of 4 to 16 years old demonstrating with there death shrouds or carrying banners that they can't understand.(most of them from orphanages supported by the M.B.)


The next few days will be vital to show which way this is going to go. Either escalation or De-escalation. Especially since Friday is just around the corner.

At the end of the day, Egypt is too big to fail.


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## marenostrum

it won't be long till suicide bombers start appearing in central Cairo.
there are already people infiltrating via Sinai and also Cairo itself probably has quite a few nutcases willing to blow themselves up its only a matter of time.


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## Guest

We received bad news from the family. One of our cousins has died today in these clashes. I don't know why I'm shaking. He knew my husband more and I last saw him come to our wedding in Cairo a few years ago.


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## MaidenScotland

zaytoona said:


> We received bad news from the family. One of our cousins has died today in these clashes. I don't know why I'm shaking. He knew my husband more and I last saw him come to our wedding in Cairo a few years ago.




So sorry to hear of your loss, condolences to your family,


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## MaidenScotland

Helicopters flying over Mohandiseen


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## MaidenScotland

Now Egyptians are all paying the price | Ahdaf Soueif | Comment is free | The Guardian


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## canuck2010

Anyone have news about the situation at the airport? I have someone who is supposed to be flying in on Saturday morning, plus I have a flight scheduled for Monday morning. Not the best timing!


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## hurghadapat

canuck2010 said:


> Anyone have news about the situation at the airport? I have someone who is supposed to be flying in on Saturday morning, plus I have a flight scheduled for Monday morning. Not the best timing!



Latest info from Egyptair.


EGYPTAIR
15 hours ago
Dear Valued Passengers,
EGYPTAIR announce the operation of all itsinternational and domestic flights as scheduled with no planned cancelations.
All EGYPTAIR passengers are kindly requested to proceed to airport at least 3 hours before the scheduled departure time of their flights; evening and early morning flights will be available for check-in before the start of curfew, yet in case of heading to airport during curfew time, please makes sure to have all necessary travel documentsin hand to be presented at any security check point.
EGYPTAIR strongly recommend its passengers to use web and mobile check-in services to save their time at airports.
For more information call 1717 from your mobile of 090070000 from any land line.

They have a Facebook page which gives information also any queries you have you can ask on that site.


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## MaidenScotland

hurghadapat said:


> Latest info from Egyptair.
> 
> 
> EGYPTAIR
> 15 hours ago
> Dear Valued Passengers,
> EGYPTAIR announce the operation of all itsinternational and domestic flights as scheduled with no planned cancelations.
> All EGYPTAIR passengers are kindly requested to proceed to airport at least 3 hours before the scheduled departure time of their flights; evening and early morning flights will be available for check-in before the start of curfew, yet in case of heading to airport during curfew time, please makes sure to have all necessary travel documentsin hand to be presented at any security check point.
> EGYPTAIR strongly recommend its passengers to use web and mobile check-in services to save their time at airports.
> For more information call 1717 from your mobile of 090070000 from any land line.
> 
> They have a Facebook page which gives information also any queries you have you can ask on that site.




so breaking the curfew is allowed if you are 

going to the airport. 

a taxi driver taking someone to the airport.. passengers can show their tickets to prove it, 

a friend taking someone to the airport...... again ticket is available.


so what about the friends/taxi return journey, what happens if a friend is going to pick you up at the airport.. 

this curfew is a farce as always.


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## canuck2010

Ok, good news. The flight is an egyptair arriving at 5:30am, so just before curfew ends. Shouldn't be a problem.


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## emmab73

zaytoona said:


> We received bad news from the family. One of our cousins has died today in these clashes. I don't know why I'm shaking. He knew my husband more and I last saw him come to our wedding in Cairo a few years ago.


So sorry to hear this, it is awful for you and your family


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## mamasue

MaidenScotland said:


> .
> 
> I am not a fan of the MB nor of the army and I would not rejoice at one person dying but the MB was caught during the week staging scenes showing injured people... they forget that youtube is out there and most things will end up there. I would not believe a word the MB says


Try this one for size!!




https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=hPzzQclKrlo


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## MaidenScotland

mamasue said:


> Try this one for size!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=hPzzQclKrlo




That is the one I was referring


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## MaidenScotland

The girl in the blue hijab holding up the koran.. I have seen her in several videos


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## Jud2

why would they film this?


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## jemiljan

zaytoona said:


> We received bad news from the family. One of our cousins has died today in these clashes. I don't know why I'm shaking. He knew my husband more and I last saw him come to our wedding in Cairo a few years ago.


Ditto Maiden.


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## jemiljan

zaytoona said:


> From Egyptian Streets on fb.
> 
> Also
> 
> Also see #Alexandria on fb. There is more than one organization reporting the attack on the library there.


Here is an attempt by a group of bloggers to document/source/corroborate these reports. There are 54 attacks documented, but there are still a number that haven't been confirmed. 

Wish I saw more efforts along these lines about news reports in general. We could really use a local version of FactCheck or PolitiFact, not to mention Snopes! An Arabic version would be even better though.


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## jemiljan

Note: Not sure if all of the information listed here is true or not, but it's still worth sharing.

*Cairo Guide: What's Open & What's Closed During this Weekend's Curfew in Cairo*


As Cairo prepares for an uncertain weekend, panic has slowly crept into our collective consciousness in terms of food and drink. While some supermakets, restaurants and cafes have closed completely and others adjusted operating hours, some are defying the curfew altogether and working as normal.

*Supermarkets*

Metro Supermarkets 24/7

Alfa Market 10AM-6PM 

Seoudi Market 10AM-7PM/8PM (Depending on circumstances)


*Open During Curfew*

Makani 24/7

Wel3a 24/7

Blackstone Bistro 12PM-midnight

Thai Elephant 1PM-midnight 

The Marriott Hotel (Zamalek) 


*Open During Day*

Lettuceat 10AM-5PM

Sequoia 10AM-6PM

Left Bank 10AM-6PM

Grizzly Diner 9AM-6PM

Dishes 8AM-6PM

La Trattoria 12PM-5.30PM

Mori Sushi 12PM-5PM

Maison Thomas 8AM-4PM

Pub 28 12PM-6PM

Ahwak Salon de The 9AM-6PM

Didos Al Dente 11AM-6.30PM

McDonald's 5PM last order

Hardee's 5PM last order

KFC 4.30PM last order

Pizza Hut 5Pm last order

Mall of Arabia 10AM-5PM

Dandy Mega Mall 10AM-5PM

Sun City Mall 9AM-5PM 


*Closed
*
Zooba
Gui
Le Bodega
L'Aubergine
Cairo Jazz Club (Weekend TBC)
Alchemy (Weekend TBC)
Citystars
L'Asiatique
All branches of Vodafone
IMAX Cinema


Please call ahead before making any plans, as many venues are making decisions hour-to-hour. Most important of all, we urge everyone to stay safe and keep to the curfew hours.

This page will be updated regularly.


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## expatlady

MaidenScotland said:


> There is a MB spokeswomen on sky news saying 2,200 have been murdered...
> There is a man sitting beside her saying nothing.
> 
> I am not a fan of the MB nor of the army and I would not rejoice at one person dying but the MB was caught during the week staging scenes showing injured people... they forget that youtube is out there and most things will end up there. I would not believe a word the MB says


The problem is that you cannot believe a word of what the military is saying either. Even my local Scandinavian news openly mock them, saying how the military at times state that they do not shoot with sharps, when everything (including videos) tells another story.

525++ confirmed killed yesterday. Today came the info that Sweden and Norway are evacuating their tourists from Egypt (including Hurgahda).

I think this coup was a _seriously_ bad idea.


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## canuck2010

I was at Metro this morning on road 9, their shelves were well stocked. Although, no fresh veggies. All the banks were closed. Luckily, the HSBC ATM in front of Metro was working....though it may have already run out of cash. The banks will be closed until sunday, perhaps longer. 

Also, right now there are MB protestors crossing the corniche bridge and making their way to the maadi police station near the Israeli Ambassador house. No signs that attacks have started yet, but apparently the police are mobilized.

Follow #maadi hash tag on twitter for latest updates.


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## jemiljan

expatlady said:


> I think this coup was a _seriously_ bad idea.


As was holding presidential elections without a constitution in place.


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## jemiljan

canuck2010 said:


> I was at Metro this morning on road 9, their shelves were well stocked. Although, no fresh veggies. All the banks were closed. Luckily, the HSBC ATM in front of Metro was working....though it may have already run out of cash. The banks will be closed until sunday, perhaps longer.
> 
> Also, right now there are MB protestors crossing the corniche bridge and making their way to the maadi police station near the Israeli Ambassador house. No signs that attacks have started yet, but apparently the police are mobilized.
> 
> Follow #maadi hash tag on twitter for latest updates.


I walked further down Rd. 9 myself, and noticed many produce sellers were low on everything. 

According to Shorouk, the MB is setting up a stage in 'Arab neighborhood.

Others are inferring it's at Midan Sawaris again, like last night, not Midan Port Said. The "Maadi al-yawm" newspaper also just posted this video allegedly shot near Midan Horriya a short while ago.


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## starlet

jemiljan said:


> I walked further down Rd. 9 myself, and noticed many produce sellers were low on everything.
> 
> According to Shorouk, the MB is setting up a stage in 'Arab neighborhood.
> 
> Others are inferring it's at Midan Sawaris again, like last night, not Midan Port Said. The "Maadi al-yawm" newspaper also just posted this video allegedly shot near Midan Horriya a short while ago.


Clashes broke out in Maadi, all night gunshots and fireworks. MB is trying to set up sit-in in Maadi. Police supposedly on the way.


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## emmab73

I have never been so disgusted at the news, confirms everything I ever thought about the propaganda machine, fwiw, I went to seoudi in sheik zayed on Sunday and they were low on fresh produce including potatoes fortunately we just came back from holiday and have cash in all major currencies


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## jemiljan

starlet said:


> Clashes broke out in Maadi, all night gunshots and fireworks. MB is trying to set up sit-in in Maadi. Police supposedly on the way.


This article explains the video I posted the link to earlier.


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## Guest

We got an email alert from the state dept about the new travel warnings issued urging all Americans to get out of Egypt due to the continued ongoing unrest and escalation in violence and cancel any plans to travel there. 

Also saw the MB issue a statement calling for further protests tomorrow known as the day of anger.


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## canuck2010

As far as I know, the MB were chased out of Maadi by local residents and police, the stage they were trying to build just over by Grand Mall was destroyed, of course, they may be back today. 

Was just at Seoudi market in degla. They still had quite a bit of fresh produce, eggs, meat, vegetables. They were out of Nestle water, but Kimo still had a few large bottles left. 

I think, as most sensible expats have already evacuated, there aren't many people to buy the food.


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## Guest

The blow back has begun in the march of anger. Already there are reports of 15 security officials dead in one attack. In another attack four civilians and one security official died. 

Too bad they didn't call for a march of public mourning where they were peaceful, grieved, and buried their dead. Reports say officials wouldn't release the bodies to family and give them permits for burial until they said their family member committed suicide.

Scandinavia has issued an evacuation for their citizens from Egypt and said it will be complete by Monday. Also several countries have summoned their Ambassadors from Egypt over recent events.


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## MaidenScotland

canuck2010 said:


> As far as I know, the MB were chased out of Maadi by local residents and police, the stage they were trying to build just over by Grand Mall was destroyed, of course, they may be back today.
> 
> Was just at Seoudi market in degla. They still had quite a bit of fresh produce, eggs, meat, vegetables. They were out of Nestle water, but Kimo still had a few large bottles left.
> 
> I think, as most sensible expats have already evacuated, there aren't many people to buy the food.




Gunfire on rd 233.. police are giving chase


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## marenostrum

zamalek, gunfire heard frequently.


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## DeadGuy

RPG's and homemade explosives used to bomb at least 4 local churches where I live, one of them is completely burned down as the fire fighters were under gunfire to keep them away from the perimeter, also Christian residents in some areas forced out of their homes to loot it, and all the army did was sending a helicopter to take pictures today, after 3 days of looting and burning everything that can be stolen or damaged


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## MaidenScotland

*the other side to the story*





 according to state tv MB pushed it off the bridge


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## marenostrum

MaidenScotland said:


> ‫ according to state tv MB pushed it off the bridge


it is clear it is reversing and not being pushed albeit it is being chased by a mob.
A video from skynews clearly shows the same thing ie the van was not pushed.
More spin by the state.


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## MaidenScotland

There is another I have seen but can't find... policemen covering up with galabayas


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## canuck2010

The military's methods may be deplorable, but the MB can't say they weren't warned deadly force would be used against them. On the other hand, it looks like martyrdom is part of the MB strategy.


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## marenostrum

MaidenScotland said:


> There is another I have seen but can't find... policemen covering up with galabayas


anotehr link i have seen is people being shot whilst carrying injured people during the demos.


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## MaidenScotland

canuck2010 said:


> The military's methods may be deplorable, but the MB can't say they weren't warned deadly force would be used against them. On the other hand, it looks like martyrdom is part of the MB strategy.




if the military/police have nothing to be ashamed off why hide what they are doing..


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## marenostrum

MaidenScotland said:


> if the military/police have nothing to be ashamed off why hide what they are doing..


Correct.
And now this military is the one that is supposedly protecting the copts, not the same military that killed copts at maspero a few months ago?:wacko:


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## canuck2010

Of course the military is duplicitous and have their own agenda, but it appears the MB leadership is playing right into their hands by sending out all those young men to martyr themselves in the streets.


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## Guest

They're going after the hotels now.


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## expatlady

One person from the Morsi camp managed to film the Wednesday massacre. The whole 9 minutes is uploaded to youtube: 



 (Warning: VERY graphic) :Cry:

The whole, uncensored 9 minutes is now shown on the largest Scandinavian news-web-sites:
Filmet blodbad i protestleir i Kairo - VG Nett om Egypt

Frankly, from the outside it is looking as if Egypt is now a country ruled by who should be in jail for murder.
:hurt:


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## MaidenScotland

At the end of the day there is right and wrong on both sides and for Egyptians to be dying is wrong wrong wrong..


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## Guest

Along those lines I came across an interesting interview that the Egyptian actor that was in the movie Kite Runner did. Though you'll find that the opinion is in the minority and you'll be called out as unpatriotic for it if you're Egyptian. It happened to my husband for expressing that same opinion online today.

Egypt crisis: 'Both sides are wrong' - actor and activist Khalid Abdalla

Also Tamarrod gave the middle finger to the US and Israel today in a test for the Egyptian Military's resolve in backing a potential future popular mandate. 

Tamarrod starts petition to reject US aid, scrap peace treaty with Israel


----------



## marenostrum

expatlady said:


> Frankly, from the outside it is looking as if Egypt is now a country ruled by who should be in jail for murder.
> :hurt:


I have seen the video and i only see stones thrown by civilians against armoured vehicles and gunfire comeing back at them. Exactly what I thought.
I still repeat the military were itching to do this two years ago against the seculars but they preferred to find scapegoat now they are doing it full on no matter what.
The military and people as one: what a load of.......


----------



## emmab73

I am still astonished the UK have said its still Ok to come on holiday here


----------



## marenostrum

emmab73 said:


> I am still astonished the UK have said its still Ok to come on holiday here


why would one want to sit around a swimming pool here whilst people are getting blown to pieces is beyond me, considering also that you are more or less confined to the hotel grounds.


----------



## emmab73

marenostrum said:


> why would one want to sit around a swimming pool here whilst people are getting blown to pieces is beyond me, considering also that you are more or less confined to the hotel grounds.


I share your thoughts, but from the news it was more along the lines of the tour operators not being willing to cancel and so people would not get their money back, I am sure a lot of people have saved hard for their holidays and it seems unfair to me that they are forced to either go and have a totally crap holiday and/or put themselves at risk.


----------



## jemiljan

zaytoona said:


> Along those lines I came across an interesting interview that the Egyptian actor that was in the movie Kite Runner did. Though you'll find that the opinion is in the minority and you'll be called out as unpatriotic for it if you're Egyptian. It happened to my husband for expressing that same opinion online today.
> 
> Egypt crisis: 'Both sides are wrong' - actor and activist Khalid Abdalla
> 
> Also Tamarrod gave the middle finger to the US and Israel today in a test for the Egyptian Military's resolve in backing a potential future popular mandate.
> 
> Tamarrod starts petition to reject US aid, scrap peace treaty with Israel


I have to laugh at how the the militarists are blaming Obama for supposedly 'supporting' the Ikhwan. They've even resorted to the same silly propaganda that the nutty tea partiers, 'birthers', reactionary sectarian bigots- not to mention the comfortably paid professional Islamophobes- are fond of in the USA (you know, Obama with a big beard and turban, &c &c). The Americans who produce this insidious garbage have no sympathy for Egypt whatsoever, but these pro-militarist Egyptian reactionaries would rather take comfort in lame-brain conspiracy theories than face reality.

Of course, Obama hasn't really "supported" the Ikhwan any more or any less than Bush did when his administration encouraged them to participate in the 2005 parliamentary elections as part of his failed "Freedom Agenda". Both men supported the transition to a democratic representative government. Saying that Obama "supports" the Ikhwan is akin to saying that Bush "supported" Hamas because he supported elections in Palestine, but the reactionaries back home- and here as well- won't admit that fact.

Of course, the underlying message is that "all of my problems are someone else's fault," but the situation will never improve until the leaders in power start behaving like adults, attempt to be reasonable, and accept some responsibility, but I'm afraid that won't be happening any time soon.


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## MaidenScotland

The police station behind me was attacked yesterday, I heard sniper shooting all night but I can tell you.. 
I have seen plain clothed policemen with rifles walking around outside the police station many many times so not every person who is holding a gun and not in uniform is MB


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## Gounie

emmab73 said:


> I am still astonished the UK have said its still Ok to come on holiday here


It must be a really hard one to call. ABTA estimate there are currently around 40,000 British tourists alone at the Red Sea resorts right now. Many come just to stay in their hotels and enjoy a day of volleyball, aqua aerobics, taking boats out diving and snorkeling, or just to relax and soak up the sun. It is not just the main resorts but also smaller ones and lots of diving camps all the way down to Hamata this side of the Red Sea. Also thousands of property owners, many who have returned to the UK to escape the summer heat and can't wait to get back in September and worried their flights will be cancelled.

Wednesday saw the violent clashes in Dahar in Hurghada with around 15 injured and 1 death. My friend had gone on the local bus from El Gouna which stops right at the square in Dahar and she arrived in the middle of the blockage and was terrified. If a bus of tourists get caught in the middle who knows what might happen. Once the Foreign Office change the travel warning to the whole of Egypt, those with insurance from Europe are not covered. 

I have been glued to the TV, Twitter and internet following events. But looking out my window I can see dive boats at coral reefs, people swimming in the lagoons, kite surfers enjoying the wind and hear music thumping at beach bars near the marina. Many Egyptians have escaped from Cairo, some with villas and apartments and the town is busy and night venues packed. There are no curfews and here in El Gouna I walk everywhere alone if I go out at night without being afraid.

It's a hard line between spoiling their fun and keeping everyone safe. Tensions are sky high in this country now.


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## emmab73

Great post Gounie, thanks for the insight


----------



## jemiljan

Gounie said:


> It must be a really hard one to call. ABTA estimate there are currently around 40,000 British tourists alone at the Red Sea resorts right now. Many come just to stay in their hotels and enjoy a day of volleyball, aqua aerobics, taking boats out diving and snorkeling, or just to relax and soak up the sun. It is not just the main resorts but also smaller ones and lots of diving camps all the way down to Hamata this side of the Red Sea. Also thousands of property owners, many who have returned to the UK to escape the summer heat and can't wait to get back in September and worried their flights will be cancelled.
> 
> Wednesday saw the violent clashes in Dahar in Hurghada with around 15 injured and 1 death. My friend had gone on the local bus from El Gouna which stops right at the square in Dahar and she arrived in the middle of the blockage and was terrified. If a bus of tourists get caught in the middle who knows what might happen. Once the Foreign Office change the travel warning to the whole of Egypt, those with insurance from Europe are not covered.
> 
> I have been glued to the TV, Twitter and internet following events. But looking out my window I can see dive boats at coral reefs, people swimming in the lagoons, kite surfers enjoying the wind and hear music thumping at beach bars near the marina. Many Egyptians have escaped from Cairo, some with villas and apartments and the town is busy and night venues packed. There are no curfews and here in El Gouna I walk everywhere alone if I go out at night without being afraid.
> 
> It's a hard line between spoiling their fun and keeping everyone safe. Tensions are sky high in this country now.


Hmmm, sounds like I should get out of town...


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## marenostrum

I am worried that things are a lot worse in the smaller towns ie assiut mynia sohag etc etc and nothing is being reported.
These are MB strongholds and I would not be surprised if the crackdown is a lot worse there than in Cairo plus it is more difficult to report for the media.


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## jemiljan

Egypt government paints opponents as terrorists; U.S. journalists targeted

"Western media now are considered enemies defending the Islamists. Hegazy said Egyptians are "very bitter" about the coverage. Several journalists have been beaten and detained while covering clashes. A female McClatchy reporter who attempted to see the carnage inside Fateh Mosque as the Islamists were cleared of the site was confronted by a police officer. Angry, he shouted at the men behind her: “Beat her! She is an American!” The men happily obliged and manhandled the reporter. As she escaped, men surrounded her, recording her face.

On state media, a recent program showed a vehicle purported to be foreigner’s handing out weapons and money to Islamists. It turned out to be a CNN vehicle covering the news. State security visited the CNN offices and when told about the broadcast told reporters, 'We know. We had to juice it up a bit.'"


----------



## DeadGuy

marenostrum said:


> I am worried that things are a lot worse in the smaller towns ie assiut mynia sohag etc etc and nothing is being reported.
> These are MB strongholds and I would not be surprised if the crackdown is a lot worse there than in Cairo plus it is more difficult to report for the media.


It is a lot worse indeed, clashes started long before Cairo, escalated after what happened, and is getting worse......

:fingerscrossed:


----------



## Guest

According to the Health Ministry:

Thursday's dead is 638 with 3,994 injured.

Friday's dead from the "March of Anger" is 173 with 1330 injured and 1004 arrests.

Still waiting on numbers for Saturday's dead from violence. There was a mosque stand off that ended by force. We also saw the arrest of: Al Qaeda leader Ayman al-Zawahri's younger brother in Egypt

Islamists call for protests all this week. 

The government is considering a ban on the MB.

The banks and the Egyptian stock exchange plan to reopen today.

Meanwhile Thailand ordered an evacuation of all it's citizens from Egypt.

The Navy is on high alert to rescue up to 40,000 Britons in Egypt. It looks like they're positioning for the event to occur in the red sea area if need be.

The Malaysians are also prepared to evacuate citizens since Friday.

In addition to the Greek's preparing evacuation plans since Friday.

To classify what's happening in Egypt political science measures conflicts by the length of the conflict, the intensity of the conflict and the deaths from the conflict on both sides.

If the conflict continues at this intensity with the number of deaths reaching 1,000 a week then we could call this a civil war in Egypt. However, due to the length of the current on-going conflict it's too early to call it that. Measurements for armed conflicts are done by the length of the conflict, the number of deaths, and the intensity of the fighting which includes the wounded.


----------



## Guest

Egyptian Centre for Economic and Social Rights (ECESR) did an independent count of the death toll in recent clashes and their number comes to 1295.

They lay it out in detail. Also a most disturbing reveal is this:


> 28 bodies found under the platform of the pro-Morsi Rabaa Al-Adaweya sit-in in Cairo.


Is that the mass grave prior reports by the Egyptian Ambassador to the US and elsewhere have been indicating the pro-Morsi group is responsible for during their six week sit-in? If so it's the first actual count I've seen of the number found dead.


----------



## canuck2010

Word is MB has cancelled all major marches today; good news, could mean they are ready to negotiate,

Sent from my iPad using ExpatForum


----------



## Guest

Crossing our fingers. :fingerscrossed:

I wonder if it has anything to do with this:

Egypt raids homes of Muslim Brotherhood supporters

They're saying they raided their homes in an attempt to disrupt the future planned protests. I wonder if that will work or if the people will still remain defiant. ainkiller:

This just came across too: Sisi sends message to Morsi suppoters via Facebook



> "There is room for everyone in Egypt".


And now this: Egypt’s military chief: Army has no intention to seize power; calls for inclusion of Islamists


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## canuck2010

Ok, so now they're denying sky news reports and say they are indeed going ahead with marches!


----------



## Guest

This is all it says on AFP and a few other news sources online.

Report: Islamists cancel 2 rallies in Cairo, Egypt, for 'security reasons'

Here we go. More is coming in now.

Egypt protest marches canceled due to snipers, Muslim Brotherhood says.


----------



## Guest

Updating-

According to the Health Ministry:

Thursday's dead is 638 with 3,994 injured.

Friday's dead from the "March of Anger" is 173 with 1330 injured and 1004 arrests.

Saturday's dead from violence is at 79 with 549 wounded.

------------

Meanwhile in the Monday meetings of world leaders...

US Congress Debate suspending 1.3B in aid to Egypt

EU considers suspension of €5bn in aid to Egypt

And

Egypt to review foreign aid amid intl criticism

This is probably in response to Tamarrod's new petition to reject US aid to Egypt and cancel the peace treaty with Israel.


----------



## MaidenScotland

The army has left their position that I overlook on the bridge


----------



## canuck2010

The US and EU will never suspend all AID.


----------



## Guest

I agree. It seems the US Congress is split in the debate to suspend aid and Germany's Merkle is halting weapons shipments to Egypt to halt the violence.

Israel has finally spoken out to the US and EU about what it's like to be on the border with Egypt right now. Israel's message on Egypt: Keep Cairo from falling, then worry about democracy

I've been waiting to hear from Israel on this because what they think is going to take priority for the US because of the peace treaty. I know privately they're in discussion with world leaders and also cooperating with Egypt's military on the security situation. If Israel says openly this is their assessment then I think the US is going to have to shift their policy.

I've also been mulling over Gen. Sisi's statement "there is room for all in Egypt, but we won't tolerate violence." He reopens the door for dialogue with Islamists. This serves several purposes. 

One it could be genuine. Two it means that moving forward those that remain defiant and violent against the opportunity for dialogue and inclusion in the political process can be called terrorist legitimately when they were given another opportunity and didn't take it. Three Sisi may be banking on the MB and their supporters continued defiance at this point thus giving the international community an opportunity to change their policy and public narrative on the continuing conflict.

This is good for the US and EU to see that the interim-government of Egypt (which they already formally recognize as the current legitimate government of Egypt because they haven't denounced what happened as a coup) is willing to cooperate with the opposition and doesn't want to fight them, but they will fight them if they're violent. If they continue to be violent and disobey the laws such as a "ban" on their political party it changes things.

Also I think the US needs to consider the only ally in Egypt to the US is the military right now and they're irritated with us for not trusting them and threatening them. The MB, proMorsi protesters, and radical Islamists are not our allies when their top leaders say in a not so secret meeting 



. Neither are the people of anti Morsi our allies because think the US supports terrorists and they are moving to cut the ties with us and Israel in their new petition. We've seen harsh anti-US and anti-Western sentiment from both sides but not from the military. Only that the military doesn't like to be threatened and to please be fair and re-evaluate the situation from their perspective.

Also current reports are circulating that the Egyptian military cracked down because their intelligence showed the MB and their supporters were building their own military to fight inside of Egypt. That's why they arrested the brother of the AQ leader, the MB leaders, and the Gamaa Islamia leaders and did the crack down on protesters that they did.

I think as difficult as it may be the world is going to have to sit back and accept the narrative that the Egyptian military is fighting terrorists and that's going to provide the most stability in Egypt. It's their country and they're in charge now and they're attempting to be cooperative with domestic and foreign interests the best they can. Plus the majority of Egyptian people want this and fully back it and will form vigilante groups to fight the MB and proMorsi groups themselves. 

The US has certainly been in unpopular wars themselves where they've used excess force such as killing civilians in drone strikes in their war on terror. Doesn't make it right but they take the heat, reassess and still move forward with their agenda.


----------



## marenostrum

Comfort yourself if you wish with platitudes about how the revolution is a process but so is the counter revolution and now it is in full flow


----------



## Guest

Does anybody else sometimes think that this is the other path that could have been taken in the January 2011 revolution and that's what we're seeing play out now? "The what could have been's" and "what might have been's" if they'd picked to walk the red brick road instead of the yellow brick road. That's how I feel sometimes. They tried option A and it didn't work so now they're trying option B and following that path to see where it leads.










In other news there are varying reports on 36 MB prisons deaths. Some reports say they tried to escape with a security officer and died while others say they were executed in custody. 

One Egyptian guy whose become popular since the start of the revolution and is known as a liberal for supporting gay rights mentioned that he felt terrible for what happened to the MB prisoners. He'd been a political prisoner himself once and knows what it's like to be humiliated and at their mercy while in custody. The response to his sympathy for what happened was a barrage of hate and claims that he's an MB sleeper and traitor to the country. The guy who supported gay rights is being accused of being an MB sleeper? It's just unbelievable. Another popular guy came to his defense and said, "If people only shed tears for your own kind, your own kids, and your own people, then those are the tears of a monster. To not recognize injustice when it happens and have sympathy for your fellow brother and man kind only dehumanizes people."

36 Muslim Brotherhood detainees gassed to death in prison van

And of course it will also seem to fall on deaf ears if you mention to the militants that they killed the security forces in Sinai that have nothing to do with the conflict in Cairo. They are the lowest rank, the most miserable in their lives, and out in the middle of nowhere being stationed where they are.

Militants kill at least 24 policemen in Egypt's Sinai


----------



## dazle

Don't think this one's been shared yet: Egypts State Information-Service Statement to Foreign Correspondents. Makes an interesting read

We've had no trouble in Dahab, no curfew is being imposed in town at all(road is both open and closed to sharm at night according to different people). Dahab's stocked up on beer, diving and beautiful views of the Sinai. A few friends who run business's here have told me they've had people leave/cancel due to their own country's advice, but we still have plenty of people pottering about

Shame to see all the malarkey you Cairo expats are having to endure. Here's to hoping for a prompt resolution to this new round of trouble


----------



## marenostrum

what are the odds that mubarak gets released in the next few days?
I wonder what reaction the average 2011 Tahir square egyptian would have...
Maybe blinded by their hatred of MB supporters they would let this one go...


----------



## MaidenScotland

marenostrum said:


> what are the odds that mubarak gets released in the next few days?
> I wonder what reaction the average 2011 Tahir square egyptian would have...
> Maybe blinded by their hatred of MB supporters they would let this one go...




....I was told this morning he will be released in the next few days and I see it if all over the net now


----------



## starlet

I couldn't have said it better


----------



## MaidenScotland

MaidenScotland said:


> ....I was told this morning he will be released in the next few days and I see it if all over the net now




It is all over the western world yet Egyptians friends are telling me it is not being shown on Egypt news


----------



## Biffy

I coubt I could have said it better. (but I bet he doesn't get asked back onto the channel again!
:clap2::clap2::clap2:


starlet said:


> I couldn't have said it better
> 
> Colonel Ralph Peters unloads on Muslim Brotherhood, Obama Administration - YouTube


----------



## Guest

I've seen the news on Mubarak being released and charges being dropped too. When the coup was happening his former PM was released and so were his sons. Honestly people can't keep denying this is a return to the old regime when the evidence keeps stacking up.

People in Egypt see the news on Mubarak being released but nobody seems to care. They say this is trivial to them when there is the recent death toll and the on-going conflict between the military and the muslim brotherhood.

Amnesty International has called for "a full, impartial and effective investigation into the shocking loss of life that has taken place in Egypt over the last week, with full accountability for whoever committed or ordered the unwarranted lethal crackdown."



> “The interim government has already stained its human rights record – first by breaking its promises to use non-lethal weapons to disperse pro-Morsi sit-ins and allow for the safe exit of wounded and then by justifying their actions despite the tragic loss of lives,” said Salil Shetty, Secretary General of Amnesty International.
> 
> “The response of the international community has been weak and ineffective, even as everyone leaps to condemn the horrific loss of life. The international community must act decisively to send a message that no government can behave this way and retain any credibility.”
> 
> *“Even if violence was employed by some of the pro-Morsi protesters, that could never justify such a disproportionate response. It should also not be used as a pretext to crackdown on all supporters of the Muslim Brotherhood, without making a distinction between those using and inciting violence, and those simply expressing their opinion.* In what country could the security forces act in such a brutal and reckless fashion without taking decisive action?”


LINK

Also in regards to Col. Peters on Fox News. I've seen the material circulated before. He had a good point that needed to be recognized at the time when everyone else was in shock and leaning one sided about the events. Also his message is in line with the political agenda of Fox News so I'm pretty sure he'll get asked backed there at least.


----------



## MaidenScotland

I had no idea the sons had been released.... 

I know a lot of people had a problem with Gamal and not Hosni indeed even coming to Hosni defense saying he didn't know what was going on and couldn't understand me saying that when your name is on the letterhead then you must know what is going on and if he didn't then it is more reason for him to go.


----------



## Guest

dazle said:


> Don't think this one's been shared yet: Egypts State Information-Service Statement to Foreign Correspondents. Makes an interesting read
> 
> We've had no trouble in Dahab, no curfew is being imposed in town at all(road is both open and closed to sharm at night according to different people). Dahab's stocked up on beer, diving and beautiful views of the Sinai. A few friends who run business's here have told me they've had people leave/cancel due to their own country's advice, but we still have plenty of people pottering about
> 
> Shame to see all the malarkey you Cairo expats are having to endure. Here's to hoping for a prompt resolution to this new round of trouble


I've seen this guy in the top left with sunglasses on his head in a few photos like this in the last few days. The pictures are all on fb under #Egypt in Sharm.

Japan and Russia join the list of countries preparing and issuing evacuation plans. 



MaidenScotland said:


> I had no idea the sons had been released....
> 
> I know a lot of people had a problem with Gamal and not Hosni indeed even coming to Hosni defense saying he didn't know what was going on and couldn't understand me saying that when your name is on the letterhead then you must know what is going on and if he didn't then it is more reason for him to go.


I had to recheck on the sons. I remembered reading about it around the time of the coup and at the time I thought they were releasing Mubarak but read it was discussing his sons. It was a big expose on it with pictures of the family and their wives, but after rechecking it appears they haven't released them and they are to remain in custody.


----------



## emmab73

Unfortunately Fox News is not known for it's impartiality, perhaps thats a good thing in this case, good piece and prob closer to the truth than anything else that was/is being said, I am bloody worn out with all this stuff now, I can't imagine how the locals are feeling about it now.

With regard to Mubarak I am not surprised they have made moves about releasing him, they won't get a better time, either people will be too busy to worry about it, or it will continue a new wave of back lash, either way it gets it over and done with.


----------



## Guest

I feel over saturated as well on the recent events. Too much blood, gore, protests, civil disobedience, lawlessness and unrest through out the country, not just in Cairo. 

However, I can image how the Egyptian people are feeling that are near these events because I've been in multiple tense stand off situations with a security perimeter setup and live fire less than a block away. Live rounds could come through the walls, doors or windows like meteor shows at any moment and your heart is beating out of your chest a million miles a minute. It's terrorizing. That kind of feeling doesn't leave you for years. Then to have that as a potential threat everyday? To put ourselves in their shoes imagine the scariest situation you've ever been in and then magnify that. If you've been unfortunate to live in a country going through that then I'd think you'd have to have some compassion for it.

Having to live with the idea snipers could be waiting on roofs to blow your brains out has got to be terrorizing to the citizens of Cairo who feel trapped inside their homes unable to go outside and get food. I understand why the Egyptian Military is calling it their war on terror and that the citizens feel terrorized. It's difficult to feel secure with so much ongoing unrest and blood filling the streets daily.

The recent looting of cultural heritage sites and burning of mummies is also just awful on top of the burning of historical churches. Then there are vigilante attacks on citizens by citizens. That probably disturbs me the most about this situation. The mob mentality and that they could turn on you at a moments notice and kill you. 

The thing is you're safe until you're not. The violence and unrest has affected nearly all parts of Egypt now. With these guys in northern Sinai blowing up things and executing bus loads it's just a matter of time until they head to Southern Sinai to target the tourist destinations. 

Countries advise their tourists to stay in the hotels while we've already seen attacks in the last week on the Four Seasons Hotel. It's an upper end hotel housing foreign tourists and that could turn into a hostage situation. That kind of incident with foreign nationals makes international news and goes beyond the military's claim of "this is a domestic internal issue". Is Egypt not a world destination? Where there not Canadian and Irish citizens arrested and currently being detained after the siege on the mosque on Saturday? Are foreign journalist not being targeted, attacked and killed by security forces and citizens in Egypt? There's a battle being waged for control of the country. How that plays out is going to affect all the countries around it on how to deal with it in the future.

Now the Vietnamese are planning evacuations from Egypt.

The Philippine government is requiring repatriation at their expense of their citizens in Egypt.

Syrian refugees in Egypt are fleeing. LINK


----------



## MaidenScotland

Egypt has a face plus another person to blame at every turn.


----------



## emmab73

I like your posts on this subject Zaytoona, I find them very well balanced and informative, it has bothered me for days that the UK has not yet seen fit to repatriate its citizens as my fear or along here is that when they do it will be too late to safely do so, why must they wait until things get totally out of hand before acting in our best interests? Regardless of their own political motives or what they must do or be seen to be doing is in my view putting us at unnecessary risk. I am of course free to leave of my own accord, but like many expats who are living and working here that causes a whole set of other problems with regard to work/living arrangements, simply getting up and quitting the job isn't an option.

I don't feel safe, I am stuck in the house all day and as you say everything is fine, until it's not...


----------



## MaidenScotland

emmab73 said:


> I like your posts on this subject Zaytoona, I find them very well balanced and informative, it has bothered me for days that the UK has not yet seen fit to repatriate its citizens as my fear or along here is that when they do it will be too late to safely do so, why must they wait until things get totally out of hand before acting in our best interests? Regardless of their own political motives or what they must do or be seen to be doing is in my view putting us at unnecessary risk. I am of course free to leave of my own accord, but like many expats who are living and working here that causes a whole set of other problems with regard to work/living arrangements, simply getting up and quitting the job isn't an option.
> 
> I don't feel safe, I am stuck in the house all day and as you say everything is fine, until it's not...


They cannot repatriate whilst they are still allowing planes from the UK to go to Egypt and even if this stops take it from us who were here during the revolution.. if you are waiting for the UK to repatriate you then you are in for a long long wait plus a bill... they do not do it for free . Why do you not take yourself off out the country? 
I work here but in the event of things getting too bad my employer will have me out of the country in hours as they did during the revolution.. pus they even threw in lunch at the JWMarriott whilst they were getting my visa ready.


----------



## Gounie

Navy set to rescue Brits in Egypt | Latest News | News | Daily Star. Simply The Best 7 Days A Week

_

Around 40,000 UK *holidaymakers remain in the country despite *growing violence and mass killings across the nation.

The Government has *expressed “deep concern” about the bloodshed and *advised against all travel to north-eastern Egypt.

Yet Red Sea resorts have been given the all-clear and Brit sunseekers are still flocking to the holiday hotspots of Hurghada and Sharm el-Sheikh.

In response to escalating tensions that have seen more than 700 people killed in the last week, defence chiefs have ordered a *contingency plan in case a mass evacuation is needed.

Helicopter carrier HMS *Illustrious and a flotilla of warships have been warned they may be called into *action at a moment’s notice.

Senior sources last night said it was “a contingency to make sure the UK is ready should military intervention be *required” to *evacuate *British tourists and UK *nationals working in the country._

I think they are busy though at the moment off Gibraltar.

There was a raid on a restaurant in central Hurghada early hours this morning where they found weapons and molotov cocktails!

http://www.youm7.com/News.asp?NewsID=1212188

Thomas Cook, Easy Jet, Monarch, etc. departing Gatwick and Manchester to Egypt today.


----------



## Guest

I understand emmab73. On other forums like this one these warnings don't seem to be deterring US citizens from traveling there. For my own situation we were planning for me to travel with my husband to Egypt for a period of several months next year. 

Now my husband won't let me go and I'm not inclined too now. The family says it's not safe for me either. Meanwhile they're attempting to go about life as normal sending pictures and videos of the nieces at swimming lessons or karate practice. There are millions of people in Egypt and several thousand are raising hell while routine life attempts to stagger onwards. 

However, my husband is still going to travel there next year. He needs a knee surgery that's too expensive here. He says that after being called an American traitor online for his position on the issues that he's probably not going to be visiting his friends and will be sticking to just his family in Cairo and Upper Egypt.

He said he'll travel there first and see how it is and if he thinks it's alright I can come after him but after this last week he's not optimistic things will be settled down by the time he leaves. He thinks people are losing their minds there.

He wants to talk the family into moving to Upper Egypt away from the major mess in the urban areas and have his youngest Sister who's entering college this year transfer to the University there away from Cairo. We'll see how that goes. There's still the other siblings in Cairo and their families too. What about their extended families and careers? It's a difficult life changing decision.

Since the coup in Egypt the months of June and July both saw around 100 - 200 dead a month across Egypt. In a large city like Los Angeles they saw around that number of dead from gun and gang violence in a period of 6 months.

Just for some perspective here's an interactive graphic on gun violence in the United States since the Newtown Massacre in December 2012. LINK

In a city like Chicago there were 270 deaths in a period of six months. This is happening all across the United States but things are not lawless here like the situation is felt it is in Egypt. It's pretty organized, peaceful, orderly with little protesting, civil unrest or needless to say fighting for control of the country. We've had our moments too though in our history.

The month of August in Egypt saw a spike in deaths to 1000+. Largely that can be attributed to the events that occurred in one day or rather one week so far. The spike in violence is concerning and one could argue that the crack down on protesters on August 14th was a flash point that has changed the political situation permanently towards the escalation of political violence. However, that remains to be seen.

Some countries with less citizen population in Egypt are going ahead and evacuating citizens and making contingency plans. Countries with larger populations are asking for voluntary repatriation right now like the US asking citizens to leave the country and not travel here while there are around 10,000 US citizens living there.

The US Embassy in Cairo didn't issue a travel warning until an American was killed there, and this was after an American was targeted and stabbed in the neck earlier this year near the Embassy. After the events last week and the increase in violence they issued another travel warning that superseded the prior one that seemed more serious.


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## emmab73

MaidenScotland said:


> They cannot repatriate whilst they are still allowing planes from the UK to go to Egypt and even if this stops take it from us who were here during the revolution.. if you are waiting for the UK to repatriate you then you are in for a long long wait plus a bill... they do not do it for free . Why do you not take yourself off out the country?
> I work here but in the event of things getting too bad my employer will have me out of the country in hours as they did during the revolution.. pus they even threw in lunch at the JWMarriott whilst they were getting my visa ready.


It's more a case of DH's employer waiting for advice from the embassy, they have a full exit plan in place and they have kept us well informed of the process to leave.

I could up and leave but I would be more worried about hubster being here on his own than I would just staying here, can't win!


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## marenostrum

emma if necessary you can travel with citizens of other eu countries in case of evacuation. This is what happened to some of my british friends here.

I do not understand your government, Abu Qatada's family gets first class flights to and from Jordan yet your lot are obliged to pay 200 quid plus to get their bums out of this mess...


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## MaidenScotland

emmab73 said:


> It's more a case of DH's employer waiting for advice from the embassy, they have a full exit plan in place and they have kept us well informed of the process to leave.
> 
> I could up and leave but I would be more worried about hubster being here on his own than I would just staying here, can't win!





I know a Brit that was evacuated yesterday... most companies do it without the embassy say so.. simply for insurance purposes.


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## MaidenScotland

zaytoona said:


> I understand emmab73. On other forums like this one these warnings don't seem to be deterring US citizens from traveling there. For my own situation we were planning for me to travel with my husband to Egypt for a period of several months next year.
> 
> Now my husband won't let me go and I'm not inclined too now. The family says it's not safe for me either. Meanwhile they're attempting to go about life as normal sending pictures and videos of the nieces at swimming lessons or karate practice. There are millions of people in Egypt and several thousand are raising hell while routine life attempts to stagger onwards.
> 
> However, my husband is still going to travel there next year. He needs a knee surgery that's too expensive here. He says that after being called an American traitor online for his position on the issues that he's probably not going to be visiting his friends and will be sticking to just his family in Cairo and Upper Egypt.
> 
> He said he'll travel there first and see how it is and if he thinks it's alright I can come after him but after this last week he's not optimistic things will be settled down by the time he leaves. He thinks people are losing their minds there.
> 
> He wants to talk the family into moving to Upper Egypt away from the major mess in the urban areas and have his youngest Sister who's entering college this year transfer to the University there away from Cairo. We'll see how that goes. There's still the other siblings in Cairo and their families too. What about their extended families and careers? It's a difficult life changing decision.
> 
> Since the coup in Egypt the months of June and July both saw around 100 - 200 dead a month across Egypt. In a large city like Los Angeles they saw around that number of dead from gun and gang violence in a period of 6 months.
> 
> Just for some perspective here's an interactive graphic on gun violence in the United States since the Newtown Massacre in December 2012. LINK
> 
> In a city like Chicago there were 270 deaths in a period of six months. This is happening all across the United States but things are not lawless here like the situation is felt it is in Egypt. It's pretty organized, peaceful, orderly with little protesting, civil unrest or needless to say fighting for control of the country. We've had our moments too though in our history.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The month of August in Egypt saw a spike in deaths to 1000+. Largely that can be attributed to the events that occurred in one day or rather one week so far. The spike in violence is concerning and one could argue that the crack down on protesters on August 14th was a flash point that has changed the political situation permanently towards the escalation of political violence. However, that remains to be seen.
> 
> Some countries with less citizen population in Egypt are going ahead and evacuating citizens and making contingency plans. Countries with larger populations are asking for voluntary repatriation right now like the US asking citizens to leave the country and not travel here while there are around 10,000 US citizens living there.
> 
> The US Embassy in Cairo didn't issue a travel warning until an American was killed there, and this was after an American was targeted and stabbed in the neck earlier this year near the Embassy. After the events last week and the increase in violence they issued another travel warning that superseded the prior one that seemed more serious.



Yes you don't want to be talking with an American accent in Egypt just now...


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## emmab73

We won't be evacuated until the home country of the company say so, this will be due to contractual reasons on the job I assume and the associated insurances in place.


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## MaidenScotland

emmab73 said:


> We won't be evacuated until the home country of the company say so, this will be due to contractual reasons on the job I assume and the associated insurances in place.




My friends works for an Egyptian company

Why not just have a two week holiday back in the UK to ease your stress


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## alexvw

Our German employer is not allowing families to return to Cairo. Looking for schools and apartment in Germany now and preparing for a long time being apart from daddy.


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## MaidenScotland

3 gunshots just gone off right outside my apartment... boy did I jump, 3 guys ran, two army personal are looking for them, I suspect a ruse to get the army to leave their checkpoint at the police station behind me,


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## Guest

Lara Logan on Egypt and the war on terror She basically lays it out in an audio interview.


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## Guest

I love this guys perspective because it echos my own. Really good read: Friday of peace



> What are those with a conscience supposed to do in such an atmosphere? Which side should those of us who believe in humanity take when both sides behave so inhumanely? How can we save Egypt from these dark forces?
> 
> It is high time for sensible Egyptians – the silenced and intimidated majority who toppled three authoritarian leaders in their quest for bread, dignity and social justice – to take a side: the side of justice and humanity.
> 
> Instead of Fridays of “rage” and against “terrorism”, *I propose a Friday of Peace, a silent march to mourn all the dead and fallen, no matter who they were, and to reject all forms of violence, no matter the justification. If Egypt is to be saved from civil conflict or even war, the bulk of the population must make clear its total rejection of violence.*
> 
> Egyptians of all backgrounds should take to the streets to make clear that, though they may disagree fundamentally with one another, they will only defend their beliefs peacefully. People must make clear that they believe in the preciousness of every human life, and in the pragmatic, life-saving, once thoroughly Egyptian notion of live and let live.


Of course dh says no one will listen to this message right now because the polarization is entrenched. However, there will be no peace in Egypt until people unite for the simple kindness of showing respect for all of the population of Egypt. I wish however that there was a "March on Peace" and they all let the killing end.


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## Guest

Oh man. This is bad. They went to those protests at the wrong time and became political prisoners.

Irish citizens charged with murder in Egypt



> Four Halawa siblings, Omaima (20), Fatima (22), Somaia (27) and Ibrahim (17) had travelled from Dublin to Egypt for their summer holidays. They were arrested after joining Muslim Brotherhood demonstrations against the overthrow of President Mohamed Morsi.
> 
> Their sister Nosayba said a Cairo-based lawyer told her last night that the four faced charges of murder, arson, belonging to an armed gang and possession of arms and explosives.
> 
> The lawyer told her they were part of a group of 300 people arrested inside a mosque who were all facing the same charges.


Also following the Canadian story. Canada puts pressure on Egypt

Filmmaker, doctor detained on way to Gaza



> Greyson and Loubani are among dozens accused of being involved with the Muslim Brotherhood, and of trying to storm a police station in Cairo's Ramses Square.


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## emmab73

The "irish citizens" made me LOL I have to say, they came to Egypt on holidays my behind!


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## MaidenScotland

One of my security guys is missing.. he was in Nasr City and now no one knows where he is.


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## txlstewart

MaidenScotland said:


> One of my security guys is missing.. he was in Nasr City and now no one knows where he is.


I hope he is okay. My thoughts and prayers are with him as well as his family and friends.


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## Guest

emmab73 said:


> The "irish citizens" made me LOL I have to say, they came to Egypt on holidays my behind!


Uh-oh. It hadn't occurred to me that they may have went to Egypt specifically to participate in the protests. I was thinking they may have roots there and were visiting but I haven't seen anything say otherwise.



MaidenScotland said:


> One of my security guys is missing.. he was in Nasr City and now no one knows where he is.


Mmm.. Anyone volunteer yet to check for him in the mass of bodies in one of the refrigeration systems? I hope for his sake he's alright though.


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## Guest

Several news sources are reporting in the last few minutes that Egypt court orders release of ex-president Mubarak.

Oh! And...Canada shutters Embassy in Egypt



> Canada has shuttered its embassy in Egypt, citing concerns about staff safety amid growing unrest in Cairo in the wake of hundreds of deaths in a crackdown on protesters.


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## hhaddad

zaytoona said:


> Uh-oh. It hadn't occurred to me that they may have went to Egypt specifically to participate in the protests. I was thinking they may have roots there and were visiting but I haven't seen anything say otherwise.
> 
> They are the children of the of the Imam of the main Mosque in Ireland all of Egyptian origins. Need I SAY MORE .


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## Guest

hhaddad said:


> They are the children of the of the Imam of the main Mosque in Ireland all of Egyptian origins. Need I SAY MORE .


Ack! Reminds me of children of the corn.


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## emmab73

MaidenScotland said:


> One of my security guys is missing.. he was in Nasr City and now no one knows where he is.


Any update on this maiden?


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## MaidenScotland

emmab73 said:


> Any update on this maiden?




No we have heard nothing but last night I suddenly remembered that I had seen his photo on the net late June early July so this might be the reason he has disappeared.


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## emmab73

MaidenScotland said:


> No we have heard nothing but last night I suddenly remembered that I had seen his photo on the net late June early July so this might be the reason he has disappeared.


Oh I pray he is safe somewhere, a western friend was stopped and held at gunpoint at a checkpoint 2 days ago, the cops checked his car but sent him on his way thankfully


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## starlet

zaytoona said:


> Several news sources are reporting in the last few minutes that Egypt court orders release of ex-president Mubarak.
> 
> 
> HM has just been released, according to media.


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## hhaddad

He was transported by helico to Maadi militry hospital;


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## Guest

starlet said:


> HM has just been released, according to media.


They had a live stream of his release earlier, but I didn't really watch it. Al Jazeera also has live updates on their blog about it.

And in a strange turn of events a Mubarak‬ 2014 Facebook page appeared online. LINK

I'm wondering if this is a joke or if this is serious.


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## marenostrum

W Hague throwing his toys out of the pram over Syria yet keeps his mouth shut over Sissi and his atrocities. 
Notice how all the media attention has now shifted to Syria and hardly anything is mentioned about HB's release.....


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## Guest

marenostrum said:


> W Hague throwing his toys out of the pram over Syria yet keeps his mouth shut over Sissi and his atrocities.
> Notice how all the media attention has now shifted to Syria and hardly anything is mentioned about HB's release.....


The Syria situation is atrocious and chemical weapons have a much larger implication because of their use. Those are weapons of mass destruction unlike what was used in Egypt in a single attack on the protesters. 

I have noticed the shift in the media again away from Egypt and back towards Syria. As much as I hate to mention this I'll say that all the pictures of the dead children from the chemical weapons attack makes me question and wonder what is the intent behind such images being broadcasted? Who took them? Who lined up those babies bodies so carefully in mass like that in order to take these graphic images? It reeks of propaganda and I wouldn't put it past the AQ rebels to have done something dirty like this in order to implicate Assad and have the West mobilize on their behalf. However maybe Assad is counting on that because he's certainly no Saint and apparently has a recent history of using chemical weapons in smaller amounts. Honestly there has been too much carnage lately to pay much attention to Mubarak being released. The indifference of the Egyptian population as a whole to HM's status says as much.


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