# Holiday Home Expenses



## PauloPievese (Nov 2, 2012)

Having given up on the Italian government's letting me emigrate, I'm considering taking a holiday home. I'm not entirely sure what that involves. Are there, for example, taxes or fees of any sort? I'm presuming that I would have to pay for methane, electricity, water, sanitation; anything else? Any estimates of what these expenses would be for an urban apartment of around 90 sqm maintained periodically at luxurious American levels? (I see friends on Zoom sitting around their Roman apartments wearing thick sweaters and stocking caps; can't see myself doing that -- okay shoot me.)


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## NickZ (Jun 26, 2009)

Second homers pay a bit more for utilities but this seems to be changing.

I'd urge you to think about heat pumps instead of using gas for heating. Especially if you aren't using the home year round.

Reason #1 is they're more efficient and the EU is pushing to phase out all fossil fuels sooner or later.

Reason #2 the same system will provide you both heating and cooling.

Reason #3 you pay a monthly fee just to have the gas hookup. That means the seven or eight months you barely use any gas you're still paying. It ends up representing a month or two of electrical bills.

Extra bonus they tend to be out of the way sitting on the wall high up.

Energy used will depend on the quality of the units you install. It's a bit of the old you can pay me now or you can pay me later. I've install Daikin units which are fairly expensive to buy but use very little power. Depending on the layout of the apartment you'd want two or three units.

IIRC the company claims about 350 kw/h for heating in the Rome area and 150 kw/h for cooling . That's a 40-50 SQ metre apartment reason why you'd need multiple units. That's for the full year. Even if you installed three units you wouldn't need to run all three all the time. There are warm days and you might only use the unit in the bedroom in the evening. There are cold days and you might have all three on all the time.

Same idea with things like your fridge and other appliances. A good high efficiency appliance will cost more up front but you'll have lower monthly bills


Water and garbage taxes depends on your local town. Some are more expensive than others. But unless you have a leak I doubt you'd hit €100 per year for water. That's a high estimate. Garbage €200-300 maybe?

Condo fees. Fibre/internet connection.


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## PauloPievese (Nov 2, 2012)

As always, I seem to make things obscure. I would rent a holiday home so I have no choice on systems.


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## GeordieBorn (Jul 15, 2016)

Bit more info perhaps Paulo. Are you looking at renting the likes of an AirBnB and for how long. For these I would have thought the information will be out there as to extra costs.


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## PauloPievese (Nov 2, 2012)

Thanks Geordie. A long term rental, hopefully 4/4. You know, a home, for holidays, a holiday home. I have not seen anything "out there". I think that it's just "everybody knows". Didn't want any surprises.


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## ALKB (Jan 20, 2012)

PauloPievese said:


> Thanks Geordie. A long term rental, hopefully 4/4. You know, a home, for holidays, a holiday home. I have not seen anything "out there". I think that it's just "everybody knows". Didn't want any surprises.


What does 4/4 mean?

How long is long term?

Do you mean you will stay a maximum of 90 days in 180 and for that time period rent a holiday let? In that case, all costs additional to the rent should be mentioned in the agreement.

Do you mean you will rent a residential apartment year round and spend 90 days in 180 there, while the rest of the year it will sit empty?


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## PauloPievese (Nov 2, 2012)

It's my understanding that a standard Italian rental period is for four years with a four year renewal, abbreviated as I recall as 4/4. I think that this covers the long term part. Yes, empty half the year unless I let my Italian and other friends use it as I would hope that they would.


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## Scalea Bound (Nov 20, 2020)

Hi Paulo,
I thought I posted this earlier, but it seem to be missing, 
So I'll try it again. Sorry if its a duplicate. 

My "condo fees" are 3k a year, (250. per month) that includes water, sewer, trash, taxes and building maintenance. (And ocean view)
Electric just went up, it's now around 40 per month. cell, internet and TV package runs another 55 per month. 
I have bottled gas for the stove top, maybe if we were there all year, 40 per year.
So pretty much everything except food for just under 350 a month.
I can't speak for other parts of Italy, but in Calabria you can expect to pay 40 to 50% less than here in the States for food. (And the quality is far, far better)
Hope this helps,


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## PauloPievese (Nov 2, 2012)

Thanks


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## NickZ (Jun 26, 2009)

If you're just taking what they provide it can range from heating being part of your condo fees. Older buildings had communal boilers. Some of these might still be using heating oil and can be expensive. Or you might have your own boiler which can range from modern condensing to older gas guzzler. 

I assume you know a 90 sqm will be at least a two bedroom and can be a three. Garbage tax is based on property size and the number of occupants. A bigger place will cost more.


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## PauloPievese (Nov 2, 2012)

NickZ said:


> Garbage tax is based on property size and the number of occupants. A bigger place will cost more.


So, what is your property size and what is your garbage tax?


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## NickZ (Jun 26, 2009)

Well like I said it'll depend on the town.

This apartment is officially I think 75 sqm all in. The government includes balcony size and even the parking spot. There are multipliers so it's not a simple addition. Last year I paid €230

My old house that I haven't managed to sell yet is 120 sqm metres and I don't think I paid much more than €100 . Can't remember exactly.


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## PauloPievese (Nov 2, 2012)

I presumed that sanitation would be a nit. My major concerns are electricity and methane. I'll check on the boiler. Nick, you moved to the Rome area, right? I'm fairly often in Rome (for a tourist). Which area are you in?


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## NickZ (Jun 26, 2009)

I'm at the beach about half way between Anzio and Ostia.


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## NickZ (Jun 26, 2009)

The guy down the street is moving which reminded me of something.

You know a normal long lease is often bare wall to wall? No kitchen, no furniture and sometimes no light fixtures.


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## PauloPievese (Nov 2, 2012)

yup, _non arredato_. I personally would prefer the relatively small (amortized) expense of a new kitchen over living with someone else's furniture.


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## NickZ (Jun 26, 2009)

Just so I'm clear. When I say no kitchen I mean no cabinets. No sink. Literally bare walls.


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## PauloPievese (Nov 2, 2012)

Yes, I know but thanks for the clarification for anyone else who might be reading this.


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