# Cooking and ingredients



## AlanMexicali (Jun 1, 2011)

citlali said:


> I did not know either until I asked my friend from Oaxaca to teach me how to make them. I had some Oaxaca mole and banana leaves from the tree I was going to cut down so we made tamales. I just about fell off my chair when I saw how much lard was going into them .
> They sure were good ..


We were at the in laws yesterday and several other family members were there. I asked about masa for tamales and the lard. They all said 1 kilo of masa to 1/2 kilo of lard. So your 2 kilos of masa to 1 kilo of lard is the same they use here for tamales. One said if you use much less lard the masa when cooked is too hard and are not "good" tamales. . Another said if you use Inca which is vegetable shortening they taste awful. Then several said Inca in fruit empanadas, cookies or pie crusts tastes awful. Now I have to be careful or simply stop when eating fruit empanadas and pie crusts here because they use real lard.  I never knew that. I wondered why a large fruit empanada hurt my stomach sometimes.


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## ojosazules11 (Nov 3, 2013)

I make _tamales chapines_ (Guatemalan tamales). I've looked through various recipes and interestingly, Guatemalan tamales use a lower lard to masa ratio. Whereas the 2 posts here state a 1:2 ratio, the recipes in Guatemala use a 1:3 or 1:4 lard:masa ratio. 

A couple even substitute butter for half the lard, making it a 1:6 ratio. I use all butter or margarine in mine (except for the special ones for my husband) and I defy anyone to say my tamales are hard or dry. Mind you, I'm generous with the _recado_ which is the sauce in the filling. It is a tomato mixture with roasted seeds and chilies. Nevertheless, I know that manteca does give a special flavour.


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## AlanMexicali (Jun 1, 2011)

ojosazules11 said:


> I make _tamales chapines_ (Guatemalan tamales). I've looked through various recipes and interestingly, Guatemalan tamales use a lower lard to masa ratio. Whereas the 2 posts here state a 1:2 ratio, the recipes in Guatemala use a 1:3 or 1:4 lard:masa ratio.
> 
> A couple even substitute butter for half the lard, making it a 1:6 ratio. I use all butter or margarine in mine (except for the special ones for my husband) and I defy anyone to say my tamales are hard or dry. Mind you, I'm generous with the _recado_ which is the sauce in the filling. It is a tomato mixture with roasted seeds and chilies. Nevertheless, I know that manteca does give a special flavour.


Here there is a chain of French bakeries with tables and drinks but sell mainly pasteries and cakes to go. Their sign states we use butter in all our baked goods [no bread except croissants]. The puff pasteries, cakes and croissants are outstanding. The price is more than doublé the regular bakeries except Costco which is cheaper here for cakes than a regular bakery.


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## dragonlady (Oct 29, 2013)

Wow I was unaware that they used so much lard. Glad I am not fond of tomales, tortillas or any of the breads for the most part here...but speaking of baked goods does anyone know where I can find bread that's not crsty and dry...looking for soft buns..breads so far I have only found in Costco...superama and fresco only carry the hard flaky rolls


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## Longford (May 25, 2012)

dragonlady said:


> Wow I was unaware that they used so much lard. Glad I am not fond of tomales, tortillas or any of the breads for the most part here...but speaking of baked goods does anyone know where I can find bread that's not crsty and dry...looking for soft buns..breads so far I have only found in Costco...superama and fresco only carry the hard flaky rolls


Bimbo.


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

yes inca is awful. My friends get the lard right from the butcher that sells it by the weight. It is also true that the good French croisant are almost pure butter but French crusty bread or tortillas do not have any fat. Pastry made with pure lard is light and flaky or at least tastes "light"


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## Anonimo (Apr 8, 2012)

I will wager a guess that manteca de cerdo is seldom used in commercial breads, tamales and the like. It's just too expensive. More than likely it's vegetable shortneming and oil.

When we first moved to Mexico, I volunteered to make the Thanksgiving dinner pies at the then Restaurant Cha Cha Cha. Not knowing ny better, I bough a couple of packages of a popular manteca vegetal; Inca briand. That stuff was so tough it was nearly impossible to work into the flour.

Now, for home made pie crust I uses a commbintion of unsalted butter and pure manteca de cerdo, (rendered pork lard) the latter purchased from our very reliable favorite carnicería (butcher shop).

EDIT: I see that Citlalli doesn't like Inca either.


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## makaloco (Mar 26, 2009)

Longford said:


> Bimbo.


Since Dragonlady is relatively new here, it might be wise to note that "Bimbo" is a Mexican brand name for baked goods (and a number of other products) as opposed to a reflection on her or her question.


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

makaloco said:


> Since Dragonlady is relatively new here, it might be wise to note that "Bimbo" is a Mexican brand name for baked goods (and a number of other products) as opposed to a reflection on her or her question.


Never eat the stuff, which is akin to tasteless Wonderbread in the States.


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## AlanMexicali (Jun 1, 2011)

dragonlady said:


> Wow I was unaware that they used so much lard. Glad I am not fond of tomales, tortillas or any of the breads for the most part here...but speaking of baked goods does anyone know where I can find bread that's not crsty and dry...looking for soft buns..breads so far I have only found in Costco...superama and fresco only carry the hard flaky rolls


I just looked up the récipe for empanada dough. Guess what? Half a kilo of flour and 1/4 kilo of lard. The same % as tamales. I presume pie crust is the same. I wonder if cookies are made with that much lard here or they use butter or margarine like NOB.?


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## Longford (May 25, 2012)

makaloco said:


> Since Dragonlady is relatively new here, it might be wise to note that "Bimbo" is a Mexican brand name for baked goods (and a number of other products) as opposed to a reflection on her or her question.


Yes, thank you for pointing that out. _Bimbo_ is the largest or almost the largest commercial bakery operation on the planet if I'm recalling correctly - and a Mexican corporation.


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## RVGRINGO (May 16, 2007)

We use Cristal Manteca Vegetal, very much like Crisco, but much less expensive. Makes flaky pie crusts, etc. That Inca stuff is truly horrible.


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## GARYJ65 (Feb 9, 2013)

ojosazules11 said:


> I make _tamales chapines_ (Guatemalan tamales). I've looked through various recipes and interestingly, Guatemalan tamales use a lower lard to masa ratio. Whereas the 2 posts here state a 1:2 ratio, the recipes in Guatemala use a 1:3 or 1:4 lard:masa ratio.
> 
> A couple even substitute butter for half the lard, making it a 1:6 ratio. I use all butter or margarine in mine (except for the special ones for my husband) and I defy anyone to say my tamales are hard or dry. Mind you, I'm generous with the _recado_ which is the sauce in the filling. It is a tomato mixture with roasted seeds and chilies. Nevertheless, I know that manteca does give a special flavour.


I think it would be RECAUDO in this case


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

La isla you cannot make a good BLT without Bimbo!


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

citlali said:


> La isla you cannot make a good BLT without Bimbo!


I'd rather have it on rye bread. I was brought up on good Jewish bread - rye bread, challah and bagels - none of that goyishe squishy white bread!


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

citlali said:


> La isla you cannot make a good BLT without Bimbo!


Are you serious? Bimbo/Wonderbread should not even be in the food aisle.

Mono- and di-glycerides give them their characteristic plastic texture. "Mono- and diglycerides are typically found in packaged and prepared foods. What's more, the packaged and prepared foods that commonly contain mono- and diglycerides are some of the least healthy food products on the market, including baked goods, soft drinks, candy, gum, whipped cream, ice cream, margarine and shortening."


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## RVGRINGO (May 16, 2007)

Tundragreen, 
Are ekmek and other Turkish breads as good now as they were fifty years ago? I loved it at every meal, and each morning anxiously awaited the boy on his bicycle, with a tray full of sesame rings, fresh baked and still hot, to pass by the house just like clockwork. Yum. I hope the old community ovens still exist.


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

RVGRINGO said:


> Tundragreen,
> Are ekmek and other Turkish breads as good now as they were fifty years ago? I loved it at every meal, and each morning anxiously awaited the boy on his bicycle, with a tray full of sesame rings, fresh baked and still hot, to pass by the house just like clockwork. Yum. I hope the old community ovens still exist.


They are just as good. Fresh bread for breakfast every morning with çai (tea). Then for lunch every day, gözleme, the flat bread filled with potatoes or spinach and cheese. I really enjoyed all the foods there.


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## Hound Dog (Jan 18, 2009)

[_QUOTE=TundraGreen;4153521]Are you serious? Bimbo/Wonderbread should not even be in the food aisle.

Mono- and di-glycerides give them their characteristic plastic texture. "Mono- and diglycerides are typically found in packaged and prepared foods. What's more, the packaged and prepared foods that commonly contain mono- and diglycerides are some of the least healthy food products on the market, including baked goods, soft drinks, candy, gum, whipped cream, ice cream, margarine and shortening."[/QUOTE]_

It was the late Julia Child (who lived to be quite elderly, food freaks and who loved and consumed lots of butter) who famously stated that, while what we in the Alabama of the 1950s called "reglar" might not be as nutricious as other baked products on the market, that type of bread was an _essential _ingredient in a great, traditional BLT as in:

* Take some of those vine-ripened , super sweet and juicy fantastic heirloom tomatoes sold on the side of the highways during high season (hot summer) in places similar to South Alabama. (These tomatoes are far more sweel, succulent and delicious than anything you will almost ever find in Mexico at any time of the year). 
* Add the best U.S. style bacon you can find, your favorite type of lettuce but for a traditional style BLT, iceberg lettuce is best. Slather a generous portion of Hellmans or Best Foods mayonaisse or a similar top-quality commercial mayonnaise on some Wonder or Bimbo bread or whip up your own homemade mayonnaise in the French style. 
* Make a big pitcher of iced tea served over ice with lemon and sugar to taste.
* Stick yo *ss in a front porch rocker on a hot summer´s afternoon and enjoy. 

You might just add a Little vodka and perhaps some fresh mint to the tea in the finest tradition of Southern Summer Afternoons before dozing off on the veranda as the normally magnificnt thunderstorms roll in about 3:00PM. 

Dawg lived in San Francisco for some 40years and local chefs used to come up with all sort of variations of the BLT but Julia Child was right. During high tomato season season, the traditional BLT is King.


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

I was raised on French bread, croissants, brioches, pain de mie, pain de seigle and so on but I guess I am not as sophisticated as you a arell. 
I see nothing wrong with Bimbo for my BLT . Eat your healthy stuff, I eat what I enjoyed and so far as I am as old as you are.


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

citlali said:


> I was raised on French bread, croissants, brioches, pain de mie, pain de seigle and so on but I guess I am not as sophisticated as you a arell.
> I see nothing wrong with Bimbo for my BLT . Eat your healthy stuff, I eat what I enjoyed and so far as I am as old as you are.


I agree wholeheartedly, eat what you enjoy. In spite of all the hype about whole grain breads, I still like white breads most of the time. One of the great things about living in Jalisco is the great selection of crusty and European style breads without the additives that make them squishy. But whatever floats your boat is fine with me.


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

I got out of the habit of eating bread long time ago and I have it once in a great while with a meal but it is rare. DO not eat any sweet bread for breakfast either... As I said before it all depends what you are used to and bread is not a thing I eat on a daily basis any longer.

When I go home and I can get hot bread right out of the oven with wonderful cheeses , I fall baclk..but here I am fine without it.


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## AlanMexicali (Jun 1, 2011)

Isla Verde said:


> I'd rather have it on rye bread. I was brought up on good Jewish bread - rye bread, challah and bagels - none of that goyishe squishy white bread!


I was raised on fresh deli Jewish rye bread from our 2 local Jewish delis within walking distance. Toasted for breakfast and untoasted for my sándwich at lunch. Bagels, garlic dill pickles etc. also.


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## ojosazules11 (Nov 3, 2013)

*Tamales guatemaltecos*



GARYJ65 said:


> I think it would be RECAUDO in this case


Nope, it's definitely "recado".

Here's a link to one recipe - of course as in Mexico each family will have their own specific recipe with subtle variations on the theme, but this one looks quite classic.

Of note, she adds cooked and blended (licuado) rice to her masa. I was taught to put in a bit of rice flour. I wonder if the addition of the rice/rice flour keeps the tamales moister and softer with less lard?

Tamales colorados guatemaltecos de gallina (o de marrano) | De la cocina de mamá


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## GARYJ65 (Feb 9, 2013)

ojosazules11 said:


> Nope, it's definitely "recado". Here's a link to one recipe - of course as in Mexico each family will have their own specific recipe with subtle variations on the theme, but this one looks quite classic. Of note, she adds cooked and blended (licuado) rice to her masa. I was taught to put in a bit of rice flour. I wonder if the addition of the rice/rice flour keeps the tamales moister and softer with less lard? Tamales colorados guatemaltecos de gallina (o de marrano) | De la cocina de mamá


I learned a new thing today! That's how they say it in Guatemala, el Salvador, Honduras and Nicaragua
In El Salvador and Mexico we say recaudo, el Salvador uses both words

Thanks!


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## ojosazules11 (Nov 3, 2013)

GARYJ65 said:


> I learned a new thing today! That's how they say it in Guatemala, el Salvador, Honduras and Nicaragua
> In El Salvador and Mexico we say recaudo, el Salvador uses both words
> 
> Thanks!


And I also learned something new - I didn't know the word "recaudo" was used in Mexico. Now I can confidently make tamales in Mexico using the appropriate regional terminology. Gracias también a ti! 😀


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

This thread was created with all the recent posts from the "Being sick" thread. The direction of that conversation had changed and it seemed appropriate to split it into two threads.


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## ojosazules11 (Nov 3, 2013)

Earlier posts mentioned _chapulines_, those little grasshoppers which my nieces in Mexico are often eating as a snack (they get the little bags of the toasted crunchy critters and munch on them straight up). Yesterday there was an article in the Toronto Star about insects as a food source. The article also is about providing an affordable high quality protein source to people and providing a way for lower income people to raise the insects both as a source of income and food for themselves. Mexico is one of the countries where there will be a pilot project. 

I knew they were a good source of protein - I hadn't realized that gram for gram they're equivalent to beef. They are also apparently a good source of iron (and calcium according to another article). And raising grasshoppers has a much lower environmental impact than raising beef. 

I have never stepped over the threshold to being an aware insectivore (I imagine I've unknowingly swallowed plenty of bugs in my life) but next time I'm in Mexico I just might try.


http://read.thestar.com/?origref=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.ca%2F#!/article/53910e3eec069181240006ce-toronto-startup-banks-on-bugs-as-the-new-sushi


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## BirthAbroad (May 18, 2014)

ojosazules11 said:


> Earlier posts mentioned _chapulines_, those little grasshoppers which my nieces in Mexico are often eating as a snack (they get the little bags of the toasted crunchy critters and munch on them straight up). Yesterday there was an article in the Toronto Star about insects as a food source. The article also is about providing an affordable high quality protein source to people and providing a way for lower income people to raise the insects both as a source of income and food for themselves. Mexico is one of the countries where there will be a pilot project.
> 
> I knew they were a good source of protein - I hadn't realized that gram for gram they're equivalent to beef. They are also apparently a good source of iron (and calcium according to another article). And raising grasshoppers has a much lower environmental impact than raising beef.
> 
> ...


When I was a child I had my first grilled grasshoppers in Mexico. They were drizzled with lime and super crunchy!


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

Insects are a great source of protein. The government is Chiapas had a campaign a few years ago encouraging people to eat insecs.The large ants are the favored dish. Actually I like them better than the chapulines.
The chapulies remind me of the tiny shrimp we eat whole in France but the shrimp are great tasting the chapulines are on the boring side. They are aso ground into a pwder and added to tacos for added protein..


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## ojosazules11 (Nov 3, 2013)

citlali said:


> Insects are a great source of protein. The government is Chiapas had a campaign a few years ago encouraging people to eat insecs.The large ants are the favored dish. Actually I like them better than the chapulines.
> The chapulies remind me of the tiny shrimp we eat whole in France but the shrimp are great tasting the chapulines are on the boring side. They are aso ground into a pwder and added to tacos for added protein..


In Guatemala the _zompopos de mayo_ (a kind of large ant) are considered quite the treat, at least in traditional Mayan communities. A friend has described how in his childhood they would be out working in the fields, and when the ants started to fly out of their colonies (some time in May) children from the village would run out to the fields to let everyone know. It would then be a festival while the ants were coming out of their underground colonies and could be caught and eaten, which was only a day or so. They weren't around for long, so the community made their brief appearance into a celebration. He says they are delicious. He's generally a stoic man, but when reminiscing about the _zompopos de mayo_, he had a big smile on his face.


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

I would say delicious is a big overstatement but I like them better than the chapulines. They are not cheap they go for 20 pesos a small measure. They are very large.
The first time I saw them from the distance I thought they were blackberries. They are not as big as the blackberries but they are big. 
We also have large ants in Ajijic and our neighbor who is from Oaxaca goes out running to catch them when it is the season. She has a great time as no one here harvests them. She calls them chacatanas but I have heard another couple of names for them in chiapas


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