# "Mexican Time"



## PatrickMurtha (Feb 26, 2011)

How do all of you deal with "Mexican time" without losing your minds or blowing your cool? I have accumulated many examples of Mexican time in my 3 1/2 years here. The latest is this:

A few days after moving to Queretaro at the start of December, I ordered and paid for Megacable Internet service in person at their local office. Installation was promised within five to ten working days; I would be contacted by phone. That did not happen within ten working days, so this Tuesday I went back to the office and was lucky to get an English-speaking customer service rep, who made a phone call and assured me that I would be contacted by phone and visited at my apartment "around 1:00 or 2:00 PM" today. Of course, that hasn't happened either, and today being Christmas Eve, I considered it a long shot at best. Naturally, I will be back at the Megacable office the morning of Friday, December 26, pleading my case yet again.

(Megacable, by the way, seemed to be my best option. I have heard that Telcel blocks Skype, which is a deal-breaker for me. I looked into Axtel, but they do not service my location. At least one other resident in my small apartment complex uses Megacable, so I visited them next.) 

I have been in this sort of situation in Mexico quite a number of times; I hope that my luck has been worse than all of yours! I trust that I have learned to apply an automatic discount to any promised action or time-frame, but still, I get frustrated. Many times the only way that I eventually see results is to get more and more persistent and insistent. Of course, this runs the risk of making me look like a bullying American, but I have not figured out another method. Maybe bribes work? - but I feel awkward offering bribes.

What are your thoughts on this?


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## RVGRINGO (May 16, 2007)

It is only bothersome if you continue to think about it. Just go about your business and enjoy life. Keep the receipt, though, just in case they never, ever show up. In fact, they may have visited or called often because, in the traditional household, someone is always at home. In our case, that is seldom the case. Therefore, the problem is really ours; not theirs.
There now; don‘t you feel better.
Feliz navidad,,,,which lasts from now until 6 Janvier.


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## PatrickMurtha (Feb 26, 2011)

RVGRINGO said:


> It is only bothersome if you continue to think about it. Just go about your business and enjoy life. Keep the receipt, though, just in case they never, ever show up. In fact, they may have visited or called often because, in the traditional household, someone is always at home. In our case, that is seldom the case. Therefore, the problem is really ours; not theirs.
> There now; don‘t you feel better.
> Feliz navidad,,,,which lasts from now until 6 Janvier.


Well, they certainly didn't call; I keep my cell phone with me. As to visiting, there is no doorbell for the complex (strange but true), so they would have to call to get access.

It's all well and good to say, stop thinking about it, but I need home Internet in order to conduct my business and make money (since I'm doing some of my teaching online now). So there is urgency involved in having the Internet up and running by January 5 at the latest (which would be about a month after I ordered and PAID for it). Not everything can be relaxed about in the same way. And not all of us are retirees; some of us work for a living and face situations that must be handled now, not months from now.

[cut]


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## Cristobal (Nov 25, 2014)

Skype works with Prodigy (Telmex).


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## joaquinx (Jul 3, 2010)

I managed to get Megacable to come to my house the next day by sending them a few Twitter messages. I have used Skype with Telcel. I had thought the Skype was blocked by Telmex, but Cristobal said no to that.


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

I have Telmex and use skype all the time but the op was talking about Telcel.


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## Hound Dog (Jan 18, 2009)

PatrickMurtha said:


> How do all of you deal with "Mexican time" without losing your minds or blowing your cool? I have accumulated many examples of Mexican time in my 3 1/2 years here....
> I have been in this sort of situation in Mexico quite a number of times; I hope that my luck has been worse than all of yours! ... Maybe bribes work? - but I feel awkward offering bribes.
> 
> What are your thoughts on this?


Bribes work fine as long as you proffer them as standard gratuities just as you would anywhere on the planet. We take good care of the guys on the garbage truck at Christmas time; the propane gas truck drivers receive modest "tips" for prompt service because propane is life. Decent gardeners and housekeepers (unaffordable in Dawg´s California of a few years ago) must be rewarded appropriately from time-to- time for services reliably rendered and greatly valued. Crooked Federal cops in the Chiapas backwoods offering you the alternatives of a ride home via the nearest ATM to which you have access for their expected "Little Bite" or your hoofing it through the dark and dangerous Chiapas backroads to the hotel you may never find in the first place. These choices unequivocally define your status on the planet with utmost clarity. Chump change, which is abundant in Mexico, is there to grease the wheels of social function. If you can´t live with that, Toledo beckons. But first, before moving back to self-righteous hell, buy some warm clothing and a gas mask.


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## Cristobal (Nov 25, 2014)

citlali said:


> I have Telmex and use skype all the time but the op was talking about Telcel.


I use Skype with Telcel and Telmex. Telmex is my service provider but I can also tether my tablet to my cel phone when I am away from home and use Skype or just use my cel phone.


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

Yes it is very frustrating having to deal with service people who do not show up. It used to drive me crazy, it is particularly bad when you really need for them to show up. Now I try to get some kind of commitment from the office and a phone number for the worker, narrow down the time they should be coming and leave and do not let them interfere with my time any longer.
If you can get telmex to come ge telmex, skype works well with them and take your time getting Megacable if you still need them or want them...


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## PatrickMurtha (Feb 26, 2011)

The latest installment in Megacable Madness: I went back to the office this afternoon, waited an hour-and-a-half to be served, and explained the situation quite politely, this time across the linguistic barrier. The customer service rep made a phone call and told me that the installation team would meet me at my apartment in a half hour (3:30). I made it home in 20 minutes and - you see where this is headed - I waited in front of my apartment until 5:00, and of course no one showed up. The installers have my phone number, so that is not the problem. What I believe is that the reps are actually trying to help, but when they make contact with the installers, the installers just yank their chains. "Yeah, tomorrow...yeah, half an hour." And then probably go back to sleep, or to nursing their cervezas.

So I'll have to go back to the office AGAIN tomorrow morning, my fourth visit overall, and this time I'm going to have to play the anger card because the politeness card sure ain't working. I am never pleased when I feel forced to do this, in Mexico or anywhere, but sometimes it truly does get results. What I find rich in those situations is when the rep asks why you're getting upset. What races through my mind is, This is operant conditioning, you're TRAINING me to react like this, since clearly nothing else works.

My "how to survive in Mexico" guides all preach that NOT blowing your cool in Mexico is highly prized, and I get that, but at times it seems to require nerves of steel (or indifference) that I simply don't possess.

I know that I can get an educated, internationally sophisticated Mexican to assent intellectually that polite lying is counter-productive, since it is not actually polite and it is actually lying. But that intellectual assent, even if widespread, would never be sufficient to have much effect on actual behavior. The characteristic behaviors within any culture are ingrained. And although this example ANNOYS me, it HURTS Mexico, because to be perceived as inefficient and unreliable in a world that prizes efficiency and reliability has got to be a major bummer national-development-wise. If I were a big businessman, I'd just put my factory in China. East Asians know how to "Git R Done."


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

I would ask to speak to the person in charge of scheduling the tecnicians. I may not be easy but you should be able to do that. Be patient , to the point firm and do not lose your cool. You have to speak to someone who is in charge or you will drive yourself nuts and they will win that one. Good luck.


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## Cristobal (Nov 25, 2014)

PatrickMurtha said:


> I know that I can get an educated, internationally sophisticated Mexican to assent intellectually that polite lying is counter-productive, since it is not actually polite and it is actually lying. But that intellectual assent, even if widespread, would never be sufficient to have much effect on actual behavior. The characteristic behaviors within any culture are ingrained. And although this example ANNOYS me, it HURTS Mexico, because to be perceived as inefficient and unreliable in a world that prizes efficiency and reliability has got to be a major bummer national-development-wise. If I were a big businessman, I'd just put my factory in China. East Asians know how to "Git R Done."


This last paragraph is basically rubbish. Foreign investment is at a high level. Ford automobiles made in this country rank among the leaders in build quality worldwide. Many other manufacturing companies are also rated highly. Many companies that had moved their plants from Mexico to China have reversed themselves and for several years now have been switching back to Mexico. Large multinationals certainly don't share your naive view of Mexico being inefficient and unreliable.


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## GARYJ65 (Feb 9, 2013)

PatrickMurtha said:


> The latest installment in Megacable Madness: I went back to the office this afternoon, waited an hour-and-a-half to be served, and explained the situation quite politely, this time across the linguistic barrier. The customer service rep made a phone call and told me that the installation team would meet me at my apartment in a half hour (3:30). I made it home in 20 minutes and - you see where this is headed - I waited in front of my apartment until 5:00, and of course no one showed up. The installers have my phone number, so that is not the problem. What I believe is that the reps are actually trying to help, but when they make contact with the installers, the installers just yank their chains. "Yeah, tomorrow...yeah, half an hour." And then probably go back to sleep, or to nursing their cervezas. So I'll have to go back to the office AGAIN tomorrow morning, my fourth visit overall, and this time I'm going to have to play the anger card because the politeness card sure ain't working. I am never pleased when I feel forced to do this, in Mexico or anywhere, but sometimes it truly does get results. What I find rich in those situations is when the rep asks why you're getting upset. What races through my mind is, This is operant conditioning, you're TRAINING me to react like this, since clearly nothing else works. My "how to survive in Mexico" guides all preach that NOT blowing your cool in Mexico is highly prized, and I get that, but at times it seems to require nerves of steel (or indifference) that I simply don't possess. I know that I can get an educated, internationally sophisticated Mexican to assent intellectually that polite lying is counter-productive, since it is not actually polite and it is actually lying. But that intellectual assent, even if widespread, would never be sufficient to have much effect on actual behavior. The characteristic behaviors within any culture are ingrained. And although this example ANNOYS me, it HURTS Mexico, because to be perceived as inefficient and unreliable in a world that prizes efficiency and reliability has got to be a major bummer national-development-wise. If I were a big businessman, I'd just put my factory in China. East Asians know how to "Git R Done."


I've been reading about your case and I'm very sorry for that situation, unfortunately that happens a lot, here in Mexico and in many other Countries.
If you loose your cool, or play the anger card, or loose your temper, do you really think that would do the trick?
About being an executive and taking your business to China, some people do that, good for them, luckily you are not one of those executives, some others stay in Mexico and are rather succesful (bombardier, volkswagen, bosch, etc etc etc) 
I don't really have anything like "the advice" many people live in Mexico and get aggravated for that, the Country works like a charm for some others, you have to make it work for you or quit, maybe go to China, where they dig "git R done"


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## PatrickMurtha (Feb 26, 2011)

Cristobal said:


> This last paragraph is basically rubbish. Foreign investment is at a high level. Ford automobiles made in this country rank among the leaders in build quality worldwide. Many other manufacturing companies are also rated highly. Many companies that had moved their plants from Mexico to China have reversed themselves and for several years now have been switching back to Mexico. Large multinationals certainly don't share your naive view of Mexico being inefficient and unreliable.


Well, you know, I was saying what I would do. Of course there has been investment in Mexico; I moved to Queretaro partly because there has been a lot of investment here. My business students here TELL me that their multi-national bosses get frustrated with "Mexican time" and polite evasions; I have already heard a number of such stories. 

But not all of Mexico has been so lucky as Queretaro. Where is the international investment in Culiacan, where I lived for three years? The high level of violent crime in Mexico is also a "cultural factor" that hurts the country. 

I find it interesting that I somehow have fallen into the "anti-Mexico" role in this Forum, when I am anything but. I like Mexico well enough; I would like to see it "do better." I just consider myself a realist. There are a lot of problems here. Worse than China, worse than Korea, worse than improving Brazil has become, probably on par with Russia (and that's a country that I wouldn't personally do business in either). It's not a record to be proud of, and if I were a Mexican, I wouldn't be proud, alas. One of the pleasant aspects of life in Queretaro is that people here are visibly proud of their CITY, which out-performs the rest of the country in many ways. When I talk to them about Culiacan, they shudder.


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## PatrickMurtha (Feb 26, 2011)

GARYJ65 said:


> I've been reading about your case and I'm very sorry for that situation, unfortunately that happens a lot, here in Mexico and in many other Countries.
> If you loose your cool, or play the anger card, or loose your temper, do you really think that would do the trick?
> About being an executive and taking your business to China, some people do that, good for them, luckily you are not one of those executives, some others stay in Mexico and are rather succesful (bombardier, volkswagen, bosch, etc etc etc)
> I don't really have anything like "the advice" many people live in Mexico and get aggravated for that, the Country works like a charm for some others, you have to make it work for you or quit, maybe go to China, where they dig "git R done"


I actually like living in Mexico better than I liked living in East Asia, although I know it doesn't always sound like it. Again, I just consider myself a realist about conditions here. I am well aware that others' mileage may vary. 

I would guess that one reason for the apparent marked difference in attitude between me and some other members of this Forum is that I work for a living here, I'm not a retiree. I don't even know any retirees; I have never lived in a retiree enclave in Mexico. I think life in those enclaves is, to put it mildly, quite different than life on the streets in Mexico's cities. And the issues of retirees and workers are bound to be different. 

I acknowledge that Isla Verde, at least, is coming from a place of real knowledge about Mexico City, and although we seldom agree, I do respect that.


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

I think the difference of attitude comes from the various personalities rather than being retired or not. Some retirees work and do not have al day to wait either but in Mexico you do not go anywhere by having a fit especially in establishment that work like the government. You get somewhere by speaking with someone who is in charge rather than clerks not unlike in other countries.

The attitude of employeed reflect their management or lack of like anywhere else as well. I have managed teams of Mexican workers and they are not different from anyone else, it is all about the management style. Each country has its quirk and there is no perfect place , try Europe for a while and you will see what happens when you have a fit. There the employees will tell you where to go and will not be nearly as nice as they are in Mexico.


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## Cristobal (Nov 25, 2014)

PatrickMurtha said:


> Well, you know, I was saying what I would do. Of course there has been investment in Mexico; I moved to Queretaro partly because there has been a lot of investment here. My business students here TELL me that their multi-national bosses get frustrated with "Mexican time" and polite evasions; I have already heard a number of such stories.
> 
> But not all of Mexico has been so lucky as Queretaro. Where is the international investment in Culiacan, where I lived for three years? The high level of violent crime in Mexico is also a "cultural factor" that hurts the country.
> 
> I find it interesting that I somehow have fallen into the "anti-Mexico" role in this Forum, when I am anything but. I like Mexico well enough; I would like to see it "do better." I just consider myself a realist. There are a lot of problems here. Worse than China, worse than Korea, worse than improving Brazil has become, probably on par with Russia (and that's a country that I wouldn't personally do business in either). It's not a record to be proud of, and if I were a Mexican, I wouldn't be proud, alas. One of the pleasant aspects of life in Queretaro is that people here are visibly proud of their CITY, which out-performs the rest of the country in many ways. When I talk to them about Culiacan, they shudder.


 Ford has a plant just up the road in Hermosillo. It seems to be doing quite well. The reason foreign companies may not locate operations in Culiacan has nothing to do with inefficiency nor unreliability. Try to stay on topic.

Mexico auto production rates with world's best


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

PatrickMurtha said:


> I actually like living in Mexico better than I liked living in East Asia, although I know it doesn't always sound like it. Again, I just consider myself a realist about conditions here. I am well aware that others' mileage may vary.
> 
> I would guess that one reason for the apparent marked difference in attitude between me and some other members of this Forum is that I work for a living here, I'm not a retiree. I don't even know any retirees; I have never lived in a retiree enclave in Mexico. I think life in those enclaves is, to put it mildly, quite different than life on the streets in Mexico's cities. And the issues of retirees and workers are bound to be different.
> 
> I acknowledge that Isla Verde, at least, is coming from a place of real knowledge about Mexico City, and although we seldom agree, I do respect that.


It takes a while to get used to the quirks of living in Mexico from the perspective of an expat. Though my current stay in Mexico dates from 2007, I've lived and worked here before, beginning in 1966. By now I've learned to deal with the way things are done here, though I still have moments when I feel like screaming when things don't go my way.  

Patrick, you should keep in mind that not all expat retirees live in expat enclaves, and many of us do more with our lives than sit around sipping cappuccino and deciding where to have dinner. We have to go shopping for food, deal with repairmen, wait hopefully for the arrival of the garbage truck and the gaaaas guys, wonder why there isn't much (or any) water in the pipes, and deal with government functionaries. It's not all peaches and cream but a much better life (for me, at least) than the one I would have back in the USA.


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## PatrickMurtha (Feb 26, 2011)

The fourth visit to the Megacable office did the trick. I was a little more forceful, but really quite polite. I was promised that the installer would come between 12:00 and 1:00 today, and he showed up at 1:45, so that's not TOO bad. I tipped him 50 pesos, because I always tip, even when I've been frustrated.

Thank goodness that's all over with!

I must agree with Isla Verde that I have a better life in Mexico than I could have in the United States, on several grounds:

1) Climate;
2) Cost of living;
3) Abundance of jobs in my field, education.

If you think I'm critical of Mexico, you should hear me on the subject of the United States in 2014! Really, just too tragic.


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## Hound Dog (Jan 18, 2009)

Isla Verde said:


> It takes a while to get used to the quirks of living in Mexico from the perspective of an expat. Though my current stay in Mexico dates from 2007, I've lived and worked here before, beginning in 1966. By now I've learned to deal with the way things are done here, though I still have moments when I feel like screaming when things don't go my way.
> 
> Patrick, you should keep in mind that not all expat retirees live in expat enclaves, and many of us do more with our lives than sit around sipping cappuccino and deciding where to have dinner. *We have to go shopping for food, deal with repairmen, wait hopefully for the arrival of the garbage truck and the gaaaas guys, *wonder why there isn't much (or any) water in the pipes, and deal with government functionaries. It's not all peaches and cream but a much better life (for me, at least) than the one I would have back in the USA.


A good Mexicana friend tells us that the first words repeated by her infant son were, "No dinero, no dinero." versus "Mommy" or "Daddy". The infant boy Martin would respond in that fashion to the propane gas truck passing by selling propane gas cylinders and announcing on the truck´s loudspeaker, "Zeta Gas, Zeta Gas."


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## Longford (May 25, 2012)

citlali said:


> Yes it is very frustrating having to deal with service people who do not show up. It used to drive me crazy, it is particularly bad when you really need for them to show up. Now I try to get some kind of commitment from the office and a phone number for the worker, narrow down the time they should be coming and leave and do not let them interfere with my time any longer.
> If you can get telmex to come ge telmex, skype works well with them and take your time getting Megacable if you still need them or want them...


I agree with previous sentiments expressed in this discussion that allowing the ineptness or inefficiencies of various service personnel to overpower someone is a prescription for a frustrating life in Mexico ... where, it seems to me, more often than not such service personnel ignorance is the result of poorly educated 1) management, and 2) employees. The slackness most bothers my Mexican friends, more than it does any expat I know in Mexico. One does have to find a way to get what he/she wants/needs while maintaining composure and relative calmness. "Tips" and/or "bribes" when such are offered for services which should be provided without those forms of compensation are just one example of how extensive corruption is in the daily life of Mexico.


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## travelinhobo (Sep 17, 2010)

Ya know, Isla, every time I hear a gas guy call out whatever he shouts, I really try to figure out what he's screaming. And to date, I still can't figure out how the word 'gas' comes from whatever he's screaming! 

As for the little situation above, I'm not passive. And from what all's been said here, I'm glad I'm not a retiree or owning or renting a home here. 'Cause I'm not quiet when there's a serious lack of customer service. I did wonder why you hadn't asked to speak with the supervisor long ago. I certainly would have. And a tip? Well, the guy who came probably had never been contacted before, so maybe he's innocent in it all, but why tip when it's taken so much energy and time?

As for the Asia comment, perhaps they work harder because their average salary is far less than a Mexican's.? Or they just bow to slave labor more willingly? When you put that factory up in Asia, please pay them more than $150 a month. And when you think about paying bribery money, that restricts you from complaining about corruption. Don't do it, please.


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## AlanMexicali (Jun 1, 2011)

Longford said:


> I agree with previous sentiments expressed in this discussion that allowing the ineptness or inefficiencies of various service personnel to overpower someone is a prescription for a frustrating life in Mexico ... where, it seems to me, more often than not such service personnel ignorance is the result of poorly educated 1) management, and 2) employees. The slackness most bothers my Mexican friends, more than it does any expat I know in Mexico. One does have to find a way to get what he/she wants/needs while maintaining composure and relative calmness. "Tips" and/or "bribes" when such are offered for services which should be provided without those forms of compensation are just one example of how extensive corruption is in the daily life of Mexico.


Your preception of daily life in Mexico is typical of some tourists occasionally visiting Mexico for a short time and not in the least representative of actual experiences of people living here today and experiencing actual events being discussed on this thread on a daily basis.


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

Some people get things done and some others go on their high horses about corruption because of a small tip. If you feel that way do not tip and have a fun life waiting for ever for anyone you may want to use in the future if you ever live here after you retire. By the way there is more to tipping than palming off money if you just do that you are wasting your money.


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

Longford said:


> I agree with previous sentiments expressed in this discussion that allowing the ineptness or inefficiencies of various service personnel to overpower someone is a prescription for a frustrating life in Mexico ... where, it seems to me, more often than not such service personnel ignorance is the result of poorly educated 1) management, and 2) employees. The slackness most bothers my Mexican friends, more than it does any expat I know in Mexico. One does have to find a way to get what he/she wants/needs while maintaining composure and relative calmness. "Tips" and/or "bribes" when such are offered for services which should be provided without those forms of compensation are just one example of how extensive corruption is in the daily life of Mexico.


I think one should distinguish between "tips" and "bribes". I give tips to lots of people: those who provide services to me, musicians on buses, delivery drivers, etc. I think "bribes" paid to government employees are indeed part of the system of "extensive corruption" in Mexico. So far, in seven years, I have not yet had to pay a bribe.


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## Uecker_seats (Jan 26, 2012)

When I was a kid my Uncle Duane used to refer to slow as "A Mexican funeral procession, with one set of jumper cables"


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## GARYJ65 (Feb 9, 2013)

Uecker_seats said:


> When I was a kid my Uncle Duane used to refer to slow as "A Mexican funeral procession, with one set of jumper cables"


And he thought that was funny


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

The funny part is that English is not my native language and I have no idea what the Uncle Duane was trying to say so funny i is not, not to me, I guess ihe meaning is ost in the translation..


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## coondawg (May 1, 2014)

Longford said:


> I agree with previous sentiments expressed in this discussion that allowing the ineptness or inefficiencies of various service personnel to overpower someone is a prescription for a frustrating life in Mexico ... where, it seems to me, more often than not such service personnel ignorance is the result of poorly educated 1) management, and 2) employees. The slackness most bothers my Mexican friends, more than it does any expat I know in Mexico. One does have to find a way to get what he/she wants/needs while maintaining composure and relative calmness. "Tips" and/or "bribes" when such are offered for services which should be provided without those forms of compensation are just one example of how extensive corruption is in the daily life of Mexico.


I'm sure EPN agrees with you about the extensive corruption, as he said that it is ingrained in the Mexican life and culture. It is what it is. He accepts it and his government makes little effort to try to change it.


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## Uecker_seats (Jan 26, 2012)

GARYJ65 said:


> And he thought that was funny


ABSOLUTELY. He was a wild card,:llama: and the original cowboy!


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## Cristobal (Nov 25, 2014)

Uecker_seats said:


> ABSOLUTELY. He was a wild card,:llama: and the original cowboy!


Original? Ethnic jokes don't make you original. They make you look stupid.


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## AlanMexicali (Jun 1, 2011)

coondawg said:


> I'm sure EPN agrees with you about the extensive corruption, as he said that it is ingrained in the Mexican life and culture. It is what it is. He accepts it and his government makes little effort to try to change it.


His original comment when first taking office was in the context of chasing corruption and implemented more anti corruption legislation, arrested and is or has being prosecuting many crooks, etc. in the last 2 years, not eliminated the already existing laws and transparency laws and anti corruption laws. So speculation he and his gov´t. along with the former PAN gov´t. accept it is a far strech of the facts up to date.


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## coondawg (May 1, 2014)

AlanMexicali said:


> His original comment when first taking office was in the context of chasing corruption and implemented more anti corruption legislation, arrested and is or has being prosecuting many crooks, etc. in the last 2 years, not eliminated the already existing laws and transparency laws and anti corruption laws. So speculation he and his gov´t. along with the former PAN gov´t. accept it is a far strech of the facts up to date.


My statement was that he has not made much effort to try to "change" the mentality to stop "mordidas" , "extortions", Kidnappings, etc. I honestly can't see any progress or reforms directed toward that, can you? Not talking about it does not make it "go away magically". Mexico, IMHO, is as "corrupt" a country as it was before EPN, even worse, as evidenced by (1) the student's slaughter, (2)the slaughter by the army (15-22), (3)his Housing problem, (4) the bidding process, etc.,etc, etc. Calderon showed that simply killing and putting in prison some bad guys just allows a "new breed" (often worse that the original ones) to come to power. Do you think Michoacán is better off now than it was a year ago? Business as usual. If you know of any programs that he has initiated that have shown any hope for progress, I would be very pleased to hear about them. (Try to provide an independent source for verification.) This is Mexico, and IMHO we accept it as it is and always will be in our lifetime. It will never change; the way it operates is too engrained into the lives and livelihood of its people. The more one understands that, the more easily it is to "fit in".
HAPPY NEW YEAR, Alan !


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## Uecker_seats (Jan 26, 2012)

Cristobal said:


> Original? Ethnic jokes don't make you original. They make you look stupid.


 It's too bad in todays society where a good joke cannot be told, and you end up being chastised. This political correctness stuff is a bunch of crap.:blabla::blabla::blabla::blabla:


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

Uecker_seats said:


> It's too bad in todays society where a good joke cannot be told, and you end up being chastised. This political correctness stuff is a bunch of crap.:blabla::blabla::blabla::blabla:


You are free to make ethnic jokes, and others are free to say that they don't find them amusing. It's nothing to do with "political correctness" and everything to do with freedom of speech, as embodied in the First Amendment of the US Constitution.


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

Nothing to do with PC, some jokes are funny and some are not. Any joke that has to be explained to
be understood falls flat..this is a good exemple of a joke that is not funny.


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## coondawg (May 1, 2014)

Cristobal said:


> Original? Ethnic jokes don't make you original. They make you look stupid.


I've always wondered about that. 
In my lifetime, I have seen a lot of Jewish comedians telling "Jewish jokes" and those in the audience laughing the hardest were the Jewish people. Same applies to Black comedians, making "black" jokes and those laughing the hardest were Blacks. Same applies to Mexican Comedians that you can see on the local TV daily. ETC. I guess they were laughing at the "stupid" comedians, not at the jokes they were telling about people just like them? All this time I was never sure, now I know. :confused2:


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## coondawg (May 1, 2014)

Isla Verde said:


> You are free to make ethnic jokes, and others are free to say that they don't find them amusing. It's nothing to do with "political correctness" and everything to do with freedom of speech, as embodied in the First Amendment of the US Constitution.


Does that also apply here in Mexico? :confused2:


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

coondawg said:


> I've always wondered about that.
> In my lifetime, I have seen a lot of Jewish comedians telling "Jewish jokes" and those in the audience laughing the hardest were the Jewish people. Same applies to Black comedians, making "black" jokes and those laughing the hardest were Blacks. ....ed2:


 If people of that ethnic group make the joke it is a whole lot different. They are laughing at themself, it is different when someone who is not part of that ethnic group make fun of it.
I worked with Jews and Italians for 30 years. A Jewish distributor friend of mine would start everyone of is day calling me and telling me a Jewish joke. I think I have heard them all but I would have never stood up in a gathering and told a Jewish joke . I do not feel it was my place, besides they were way better than me at telling them. 

Many ethnic jokes are funny but sorry that joke was not funny even if a Mexican had said it.


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## coondawg (May 1, 2014)

citlali said:


> Many ethnic jokes are funny but sorry that joke was not funny even if a Mexican had said it.


I think it depends on your audience. Usually the audience knows what types of jokes the person tells, and they make the choice to hear them , or leave. I think too often people get "up tight" about things when really there is no reason to, as often malicious intent is not present. A joke can simply be a "joke" and nothing more intended. IMHO,"racists" are more offended than regular people by a simple joke.


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## GARYJ65 (Feb 9, 2013)

Isla Verde said:


> You are free to make ethnic jokes, and others are free to say that they don't find them amusing. It's nothing to do with "political correctness" and everything to do with freedom of speech, as embodied in the First Amendment of the US Constitution.


Then again, all Mexicans are not ruled by the US Constitution and also can make ethnic jokes.
I prefer not to
Ethnic jokes are not funny, not even if they come from a Cowboy.


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## Cristobal (Nov 25, 2014)

Uecker_seats said:


> It's too bad in todays society where a good joke cannot be told, and you end up being chastised. This political correctness stuff is a bunch of crap.:blabla::blabla::blabla::blabla:


Political correctness is a term coined by ignorant people to try to deflect criticism of the stupid crap they say. Stupid is stupid. Politics has nothing to do with it.

The joke sucked regardless.


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## coondawg (May 1, 2014)

Cristobal said:


> Political correctness is a term coined by ignorant people to try to deflect criticism of the stupid crap they say. Stupid is stupid. Politics has nothing to do with it.
> 
> The joke sucked regardless.


Obviously, that is just your opinion. Whether one agrees with you or not, everyone should have the right to their opinion without being chastised, right? None of us can speak for 100% of the people and their opinions.


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## RVGRINGO (May 16, 2007)

coondawg said:


> Obviously, that is just your opinion. Whether one agrees with you or not, everyone should have the right to their opinion without being chastised, right? None of us can speak for 100% of the people and their opinions.


If you are putting gasoline into your car, and the person on the other side of the pump is doing the same, while smoking, would you not chastise him for having the opinion that such behavior was acceptable?


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## coondawg (May 1, 2014)

RVGRINGO said:


> If you are putting gasoline into your car, and the person on the other side of the pump is doing the same, while smoking, would you not chastise him for having the opinion that such behavior was acceptable?


One would put my life and that of others in jeopardy. BIG Difference, no?
(BTW, I filled up yesterday for $1.699 a gallon) Happy New Year !


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## Cristobal (Nov 25, 2014)

coondawg said:


> Obviously, that is just your opinion. Whether one agrees with you or not, everyone should have the right to their opinion without being chastised, right? None of us can speak for 100% of the people and their opinions.


Wrong. You can post your offensive little jokes but get your panties in a wad if someone expresses their disgust. And no, you don't have the right to post your opinion and not expect others to express their view of it. Where did you come up with that little gem?


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## marisolramos61 (Jan 19, 2015)

Just so you know: Telmex does not block Skype users. I have both and it works perfectly well.


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

marisolramos61 said:


> Just so you know: Telmex does not block Skype users. I have both and it works perfectly well.


Agreed. Same for me in Mexico City.


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## Uecker_seats (Jan 26, 2012)

Cristobal said:


> Wrong. You can post your offensive little jokes but get your panties in a wad if someone expresses their disgust. And no, you don't have the right to post your opinion and not expect others to express their view of it. Where did you come up with that little gem?


Oh my Goodness IT IS A FREEKING JOKE. Most stereotypes are based on obvious traits or behavior of a race, creed or religion, although that doesn't always make it right, but knee jerk reactions like this seem to be quite the craze now days!!!!


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

Uecker_seats said:


> Oh my Goodness IT IS A FREEKING JOKE. Most stereotypes are based on obvious traits or behavior of a race, creed or religion, although that doesn't always make it right, but knee jerk reactions like this seem to be quite the craze now days!!!!


Jokes of that ilk are a not-so-subtle way of expressing an opinion that would be unacceptable in polite society if it were stated outright. They may be acceptable if you are making fun of a group that includes yourself, not so much if you are making fun of a group that includes me.


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

TundraGreen said:


> Jokes of that ilk are a not-so-subtle way of expressing an opinion that would be unacceptable in polite society if it were stated outright. They may be acceptable if you are making fun of a group that includes yourself, not so much if you are making fun of a group that includes me.


Agreed. Especially if the group being made fun of has traditionally been marginalized and looked down upon.


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## Cristobal (Nov 25, 2014)

Uecker_seats said:


> Oh my Goodness IT IS A FREEKING JOKE. Most stereotypes are based on obvious traits or behavior of a race, creed or religion, although that doesn't always make it right, but knee jerk reactions like this seem to be quite the craze now days!!!!


No one needs you to explain to them its was a joke. Especially your knee jerk reaction in all caps.


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

Sorry I did not get it was a joke. I live by the cemetary and see lots of Mexican funerals and most people are walking so what is the joke?


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

I don't think that a "joke" that has to be explained is really a joke, or at least not a very funny one.


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