# Another Dog One - Another Tax



## xicoalc (Apr 20, 2010)

Now fully used to everything in Spain being much more complicated than the UK, I was calm and prepared with all of my documents when visiting the Ajuntamiento this morning to apply for a renewal of my "Licencia Animales Potencialmente Peligrosos". I moved house last year and was told that the old one is valid for 3 years and I need not tell the Ajuntamiento here but recently I was told to the contrary. So I decided to go along and apply for a new one to be sure.

When I arrived at the door to the office there was a very scruffy looking old chap outside in the doorway puffing away on a *** and I shuffled past him because he refused to move (some people) and asked the clerk where to go. She told me to wait at the desk in the corner because the guy who deals with all things doggy was on his break… yep you guessed it - a couple of minutes later the guy who I thought was loytering in the doorway came in still exhaling his last lung full of Ducados and sat down to attend to me!

Anyway he turned out to be quite friendly and explained that my current licence is OK but I still need to register the Rotty at this Ajuntamiento due to a "new law". I was kind of expecting this so asked the procedure. His next question was "how many dogs do you have?". I replied that I only have one "Peligroso" dog and he repeated the same question. Turns out that my local town hall have now imposed a system whereby ALL dog owners (even little pooches that get carried around in handbags) have to be registered for "population statistics" purposes 

I was happy to provide all of their details (why not? I consider myself a responsible dog owner afterall), but then was presented with a paper which I must take to the bank to pay… 2 "normal" dogs at 19 euros each and a "Dangerous" one at 35 euros.

So, i have to now pay 75 euros just to tell the council that I have 3 dogs. I explained that they are microchipped and therefore already regstered to my address but I was told that doesnt matter and this is still a legal requirement now.

I know they are strapped for cash BUT this really is taking the proverbial. Seems to me like that more law abiding you try to be the harder they make it. 

Then to top it all I got a mouthful from a Spanish woman this evening when walking my dogs because when I walk past with my well behaved muts it stresses her collie thats tied to a pole 24/7. I explained that I have the right to walk everywhere I want and my dogs are perfect, its hers thats terrorising the neighbourhood with its barking out of sheer frustration because she never takes it off it's chain and she just asked me to kindly walk my dogs another route because 3 walks a day is ridiculous… stupid moo… NO walks a day for her poor pooch is rediculous… I wonder if SHE has paid her 19 euros to the Ajuntamiento… doubt it somehow!

:focus:

So folks, if you own a pooch, check with your town hall.. maybe now you have to be part of their "population statistics" policy! UFFFFF I GIVE UP!


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

steve_in_spain said:


> Now fully used to everything in Spain being much more complicated than the UK, I was calm and prepared with all of my documents when visiting the Ajuntamiento this morning to apply for a renewal of my "Licencia Animales Potencialmente Peligrosos". I moved house last year and was told that the old one is valid for 3 years and I need not tell the Ajuntamiento here but recently I was told to the contrary. So I decided to go along and apply for a new one to be sure.
> 
> When I arrived at the door to the office there was a very scruffy looking old chap outside in the doorway puffing away on a *** and I shuffled past him because he refused to move (some people) and asked the clerk where to go. She told me to wait at the desk in the corner because the guy who deals with all things doggy was on his break… yep you guessed it - a couple of minutes later the guy who I thought was loytering in the doorway came in still exhaling his last lung full of Ducados and sat down to attend to me!
> 
> ...


The registering has been the norm here for a while - at least 3 years possibly 5, 10 or 15. I'm not sure if there's a tax to pay or not, I can't find any reference to it. I couldn't see any advantage to registering Kala so I haven't done it, in fact all I can see are disadvantages. For example, the ayuntamiento is having a "war on caca" supposedly, which means they've sent snotty letters to all the dog owners who are registered to inform them of the range of fines. I imagine that the people who go to the trouble of registering their dogs are precisely the type of people who are going to clean up their dogs caca - perhaps not, but I think it's more probable. I'd prefer the council to be spending their money on actually catching the real offenders rather than preaching to the converted.

The only advantage that I've heard of is that if your dog dies, or needs to be put down, they will take care of it (paying of course) if you can't. A disabled friend of mine needed help in this way.

I'll ask the vet about the registering business though.


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## djfwells (Sep 28, 2009)

I went to my local Ayuntamiento to try to get a Licence for my Rhodesian Ridgeback. The lackky on the desk asked if my Dog was dangerous - when I said no, he replied "then why would you need a dangerous dog licence ?"


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

djfwells said:


> I went to my local Ayuntamiento to try to get a Licence for my Rhodesian Ridgeback. The lackky on the desk asked if my Dog was dangerous - when I said no, he replied "then why would you need a dangerous dog licence ?"


I wonder how that would stand up in a legal situation?
A Rhodesian Ridgeback needs a dangerous dog license, so ask the vet about getting one and tell him/ her that the town hall haven't got it straight


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## djfwells (Sep 28, 2009)

Agreed.
I live in a rural community where pretty much every adult make has a pack of Podencos or other hunting Dogs. I can only assume that giving me a licence would set a precedence that they couldn't be bothered to keep up with.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

djfwells said:


> Agreed.
> I live in a rural community where pretty much every adult make has a pack of Podencos or other hunting Dogs. I can only assume that giving me a licence would set a precedence that they couldn't be bothered to keep up with.


Yes very likely.

That's why I don't really want to get my dog registered. It seems to just be a way of tracking some honest dog owners and no doubt targeting us in some way, probably with a tax. Unless I see some evidence of this being done fairly, and in a way that will benefit us and our dogs I'm keeping my distance.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Pesky Wesky said:


> I wonder how that would stand up in a legal situation?
> A Rhodesian Ridgeback needs a dangerous dog license, so ask the vet about getting one and tell him/ her that the town hall haven't got it straight



We did. Our vet looked at Azor, said 'He's wonderful', stroked and cuddled him and said: 'He no dangerous dog...(laughing and pointing to her small dog under the desk)....She dangerous dog ha ha!!' Our vet is very well-known and respected in this area where her numerous family has lived for centuries.

Still unsure,we asked the local police. They looked at OLA, patted him, asked what breed he was, sad he was guapo, asked what documents we had for him, we said we had everything required, they said 'No problema'.

Back to the vet who sent the required documents to RAIA who sent us his registration card.

Yesterday we spoke to a woman who has three very large dogs, one of which is on the list, the other two, like OLA, have the characteristics but are not 'named' breeds. She registered the Brasileano but not the other two and advised us to be happy with things as they are with OLA as, to quote her, 'It's a nightmare, a real muddle and no-one seems to know the correct procedure'.

Basically, if you obey the laws and keep your dog on a leash and muzzled in public places which we do, and your dog is well-behaved and not aggressive which is the case with OLA you are very unlikely to run into trouble.

Since then,over three years ago, OLA has become very familiar to our policia local, who like to stroke and pet him. Once when walking in Estepona we came across two cops from the local Police Dog Unit who were checking big dogs for microchips. Again, no problem.

So we are happy with the status quo as we are insured and OLA has all the required paperwork.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

mrypg9 said:


> We did. Our vet looked at Azor, said 'He's wonderful', stroked and cuddled him and said: 'He no dangerous dog...(laughing and pointing to her small dog under the desk)....She dangerous dog ha ha!!' Our vet is very well-known and respected in this area where her numerous family has lived for centuries.
> 
> Still unsure,we asked the local police. They looked at OLA, patted him, asked what breed he was, sad he was guapo, asked what documents we had for him, we said we had everything required, they said 'No problema'.
> 
> ...


So it's not actually a legal requirement to have all big dogs registered on the Dang. Dogs list. They have to be assessed by the vet/ police and depending on their opinion registered as Dangerous or not?

I'd just like to point out that the register I'm talking about, and that I think Steve is talking about, is *another* register for all dogs in a town hall area (municipio)


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Pesky Wesky said:


> So it's not actually a legal requirement to have all big dogs registered on the Dang. Dogs list. They have to be assessed by the vet/ police and depending on their opinion registered as Dangerous or not?
> 
> I'd just like to point out that the register I'm talking about, and that I think Steve is talking about, is *another* register for all dogs in a town hall area (municipio)




I'm assuming that registration with RAIA is comprehensive and covers all Ayto requirements as neither the vet nor the police has told us we must do any more than we have already done.

OLA's registration card shows his name, breed, owner's name, address and Ayto.

Whatever, we're not doing anything else. He has passport, ear tatto (from breeder), chip, all injections, registration card, insurance to value 300000 euros

Ya basta!!!


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## xicoalc (Apr 20, 2010)

mrypg9 said:


> I'm assuming that registration with RAIA is comprehensive and covers all Ayto requirements as neither the vet nor the police has told us we must do any more than we have already done.
> 
> OLA's registration card shows his name, breed, owner's name, address and Ayto.
> 
> ...


Yeah, as someone (sorry, forgot who, think pesky) mentioned this is ANOTHER register being put in place here. So I now have RIVIA (microchip), Peligroso thing with town hall, AND AND AND they want me to register the other two (and rocky also) on this new register of ALL dogs… well I have been giving it a lot of thought and decided no, on principle… too many irrsponsible owners do nothing and get away with it… I comply with everything - jabs, rabies, chip, insurance, the dang. dog laws for the big one but if they think i am paying more then can take a jump! I mean its rediculous, especilly in the case of the Rocky that the same town hall want him on TWO lists and i have to pay for both!

:confused2:


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

steve_in_spain said:


> Yeah, as someone (sorry, forgot who, think pesky) mentioned this is ANOTHER register being put in place here. So I now have RIVIA (microchip), Peligroso thing with town hall, AND AND AND they want me to register the other two (and rocky also) on this new register of ALL dogs… well I have been giving it a lot of thought and decided no, on principle… too many irrsponsible owners do nothing and get away with it… I comply with everything - jabs, rabies, chip, insurance, the dang. dog laws for the big one but if they think i am paying more then can take a jump! I mean its rediculous, especilly in the case of the Rocky that the same town hall want him on TWO lists and i have to pay for both!
> 
> :confused2:



Agreed. We too will do nothing more.


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## xicoalc (Apr 20, 2010)

mrypg9 said:


> Agreed. We too will do nothing more.


We are an army of two Mary but we will not be beaten. Power to the pooches!eace:


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Pesky Wesky said:


> needs to be put down, they will take care of it (paying of course) if you can't. A disabled friend of mine needed help in this way.


I thought they had a more enlightened approach to the disabled nowadays. Putting down? Hmmm - sounds more like Nazi Germany.... - but then Franco... - the PP is Franco's old party reinvented....


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

steve_in_spain said:


> We are an army of two Mary but we will not be beaten. Power to the pooches!eace:


Hear hear!!

I am very happy this week as our perrera worker Fernando, affectionately known as *****ando, the gayest man this side of San Francisco, is back at work after a prolonged illness - he has been off sick since the last week in December.

He is very effeminate but incredibly strong and rather good-looking in a dark Spanish way. The dogs love him and the public love him. Some of our members, mainly elderly ladies who have led rather sheltered lives, find him a trifle 'unusual' but he is a really great guy and we are all very fond of him..

He has an amazing rapport with our dogs.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

baldilocks said:


> I thought they had a more enlightened approach to the disabled nowadays. Putting down? Hmmm - sounds more like Nazi Germany.... - but then Franco... - the PP is Franco's old party reinvented....


:tongue1:****:tongue1:


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

steve_in_spain said:


> We are an army of two Mary but we will not be beaten. Power to the pooches!eace:


3 actually!


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## xicoalc (Apr 20, 2010)

Pesky Wesky said:


> 3 actually!


Mary Pesky & Steve - what a 3some!


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

steve_in_spain said:


> Mary Pesky & Steve - what a 3some!


Awesome 3some!


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## Solwriter (Jan 10, 2012)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Yes very likely.
> 
> That's why I don't really want to get my dog registered. It seems to just be a way of tracking some honest dog owners and no doubt targeting us in some way, probably with a tax. Unless I see some evidence of this being done fairly, and in a way that will benefit us and our dogs I'm keeping my distance.


So am I.
And I'm sure that some our nosier neighbours will let us know if this new registration becomes necessary. After all, they have already reported one of our dogs as dangerous, for no other reason than he looks strange to them.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Solwriter said:


> So am I.
> And I'm sure that some our nosier neighbours will let us know if this new registration becomes necessary. After all, they have already reported one of our dogs as dangerous, for no other reason than he looks strange to them.



We are really lucky to have great neighbours all around us, lovely Spanish families who like Our Little Azor.

Yesterday we had a minor incident,though....A German guy came to paint the garden wall which was beginning to look tacky. I know it's wrong to promote stereotypes but thois guy really fitted the 'typical German' -arrogant, telling us how he would do such a marvellous job as 'he was German and everyone knows Germans are the best, most thorough, most industrious workers' and on and on ad infinitum....'Spanish people are like children, they know nothing'...

Anyway, he rather stupidly entered the house without ringing the bell and came face to face with OLA and Sandra. OLA, seeing a strange man advancing towards his beloved Mum went into barking and snarling overdrive. The know-it-all German who of course 'knew all about dogs' proceeded to shout and wave his arms at OLA who as a warning grabbed his hands, leaving a graze but not breaking the skin.

Sandra calmly told OLA to sit, which he did, whereupon know-it-all German gave her a lecture, telling her sternly she must 'beat him and be strong with him'.

We pointed out that we found it reassuring that he behaved like that towards strange men advancing towards us but alas the message went over his Germanic head.

We were wondering though what could have happened had OLA done some damage to him. Could we have been reported to the Police or sued?


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## xicoalc (Apr 20, 2010)

mrypg9 said:


> We are really lucky to have great neighbours all around us, lovely Spanish families who like Our Little Azor.
> 
> Yesterday we had a minor incident,though....A German guy came to paint the garden wall which was beginning to look tacky. I know it's wrong to promote stereotypes but thois guy really fitted the 'typical German' -arrogant, telling us how he would do such a marvellous job as 'he was German and everyone knows Germans are the best, most thorough, most industrious workers' and on and on ad infinitum....'Spanish people are like children, they know nothing'...
> 
> ...


Beathim and be strong? Idiot!

As far as I am aware, thats why you have insurance Mary.. I mean if someone enters your house without being "invited" in by the owner its natural the dog will defend.

When I had my little trip to the Ajuntamiento the other day I passed a comment about a very agrressive little Jack Russel that literally attacks my dogs if we walk past his house (he rund free in teh street). I wanted to know what woudl happen in the event that one of mine one day retaliated… the man in the town hall said "you have seguro" I said yes, he said, then let your dog kill it and if the sue the seguro pays for a new jack russel! 

But seriously, if dog attacks someone in your home, especially someone who startles the dog… worst case woudl be seguro handles it.. best case is that Mr German learns that he really knows nothing about dogs!

The landlord of this house came yesterday on his motorbike to say hi, just as I was arriving home with rocky… obviously the motorbike roaring up startled rocky and he "looked". BUT The owner folllowed me on his motorbike onto the drive - I guess nothing wrong with that, but now he was on doggy's house… wearing crask hat… obvioulsy rockster began the warning process…

Landlord was terrified but the dog sat by me, just "warning" noises were being made… I told the lndlord that the dog wont hurt him but to stand still, remove his helmet and let us walk up to him… when the dog saw me being friendly with him then dogs tail was wagging and he was friendly too!

Its natural dogs protect people in their own home!


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## MaidenScotland (Jun 6, 2009)

You must live near me Steve.. the local mayoress has overspent and brought in the dog licence law for every dog.. to try and make up her shortfall.


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## xicoalc (Apr 20, 2010)

MaidenScotland said:


> You must live near me Steve.. the local mayoress has overspent and brought in the dog licence law for every dog.. to try and make up her shortfall.


not a million miles! different council but they sre all the same!!!


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## MaidenScotland (Jun 6, 2009)

steve_in_spain said:


> not a million miles! different council but they sre all the same!!!




I am actually talking about Monforte del Cid.. that is where my daughter lives and all the animals.. minus a goat that someone stole.


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## JeanP (Sep 11, 2010)

Hello everyone,

Out of curiosity, in a few months I am making my final move to Spain (just enjoying the summer first  ) and I will be bringing my 2 huskies along. They fit the descriptions of "dangerous" dogs. size, weight etc..however I have not seen any mention of them specifically such as Bulldogs, Alsations and the sort. Does anyone know?

Cheers for the info on this thread


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

JeanP said:


> Hello everyone,
> 
> Out of curiosity, in a few months I am making my final move to Spain (just enjoying the summer first  ) and I will be bringing my 2 huskies along. They fit the descriptions of "dangerous" dogs. size, weight etc..however I have not seen any mention of them specifically such as Bulldogs, Alsations and the sort. Does anyone know?
> 
> Cheers for the info on this thread


if you have a look at http://www.expatforum.com/expats/spain-expat-forum-expats-living-spain/105015-dangerous-dog.html it seems that your local vet & Guardia Civil have the final say


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## JeanP (Sep 11, 2010)

xabiachica said:


> if you have a look at http://www.expatforum.com/expats/spain-expat-forum-expats-living-spain/105015-dangerous-dog.html it seems that your local vet & Guardia Civil have the final say


Thanks xabiachica, I actually just stumbled on that thread now and saw that...yay for me, more headbanging when I land :confused2:


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## xicoalc (Apr 20, 2010)

JeanP said:


> Hello everyone,
> 
> Out of curiosity, in a few months I am making my final move to Spain (just enjoying the summer first  ) and I will be bringing my 2 huskies along. They fit the descriptions of "dangerous" dogs. size, weight etc..however I have not seen any mention of them specifically such as Bulldogs, Alsations and the sort. Does anyone know?
> 
> Cheers for the info on this thread


I have 2 huskies, mine are 21 and 23 kg and no they dont have to be on the list(well not the peligrosso one anyway) But check with yoru local ajuntamiento because every area is different!


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