# What's the actual threat of Violence?



## MangoMike (Apr 7, 2010)

As we plan to retire in Mazatlan we seem to be bombarded from all directions with statements like "Are you Crazy?", or "You are naive to think you can be safe in Mexico", or here's a good one, ... "they will kidnap your wife/husband, cut off a finger and demand all your savings be withdrawn and given to them". All this negativity is really putting a damper on things.  Personally, I believe the odds are huge that none of this will ever happen to us. After all, how many Americans, Canadians, or Europeans visit and/or live in Mexico, and how many has it happened to? Does anyone have the statistics? I just want to be able to shut these people up. Of course that's probably hoping for too much!
Thanks,
MangoMike


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## RVGRINGO (May 16, 2007)

I believe there are just over one million Americans living in Mexico.
I would imagine that your 'naysayers' are all folks who have never lived in Mexico and probably haven't travelled all that much; Cruises and flights to 'destination resorts' don't count. I also imagine that, like us, they don't actually know anyone who has experienced such events.
If they have such fears, they should never visit Phoenix, AZ, USA.


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## f3drivr (Nov 18, 2008)

My wife is from Mazatlan and I have been going there for over 15 years. We have been planning to retire there in the next 5-8 years and own a condo in the Golden zone and a lot in Sabalo Country. 
If you had asked the same question a year ago I would have told you that Mazatlan is very safe and not to worry. Now we are beginning to wonder if we should sell our properties there and start looking for a different place to retire to, we are considering Playa Del Carmen. We were there for spring break and it seemed very safe.
I haven't heard of any Gringos being kidnapped for ransom in Mazatlan, there was a man from Calgary shot in a trailer park not long ago. I read that it may have been an attempted car jacking but I don't think anybody knows for sure. 
My wife speaks to her family members in Mazatlan almost daily and several people that she knows and some of her family members have been killed. Most have been directly in indirectly involved in the drug trade but some have just been in the wrong place at the wrong time.


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## DeaninMexico (Apr 8, 2010)

I visit Mazatlan quite often, my girlfriends family live there, and have done for 20+ years, they're now retired and still enjoying it problem free!!

I personally think it's a lovely place, (although I have to admit I was not that impressed with the beach), overall the place is quiet, layed back, its relatively small, so most people know each other which gives you a good community feel where everyone looks out for each other, and other peoples property etc, and is looked upon as a pretty safe area.

The threat of violence:

Mazatlan sits next to Culiacan, which is notorious for Gang lords, and drug trafficing, Alot of people say that the Sinaloa state is dangerous, but from what I have seen that applies to people that are considered a threat to them, I've not heard of any attacks on people, or gang related violence coming out of Mazatlan. 

There is a large expat retirement community (mainly Canadian's) who reside in those large camper vans on the beach, None of whom have ever mentioned any trouble they've ever had.

Like any place in the world, until you are settled I believe it's good to be aware, and a little cautious of your new surroundings, crime seem's to exist everywhere now (just not to the extend the media will have us believe), But if you and your wife were to relocate I believe you would have a more than happy retirement life, it's a relaxing place with good access roads to other nearby cities and towns, a wonderful climate, excellent food, good hospitals and shopping facilities, and local's who treat you like members of their own family.


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## Mexicotraveler (May 17, 2009)

When I moved from the Pacific NW to Tucson,AZ 3 yrs ago,I was called "nuts" as it was dangerous with all the violence & illegals.OK,I'm still alive & feel safe.Good I didn't move to Phoenix ;-)


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## MangoMike (Apr 7, 2010)

*Car-Jackings?*

First, let me say that one negative news item makes you forget about all the other positive things in life, at least for a while. I try not to dwell on these negative stories but they do make me wonder. I've heard through another forum that there have been quite a few car-Jackings. Haven't heard of anyone being hurt but they were probably scared to death and suffered some financial loss depending on their insurance coverage. I'm wondering mostly what kind of vehicle(s) are being targeted. Does anyone know? Could anyone know? Are these types of statistics gathered by the authorities in Mexico and if so, is that info obtainable? I've heard from one source that big new trucks are a favorite. I have a full size 2001 Chevy. Not new but I keep it up and it looks new to someone who isn't familiar with model year changes. Wondering if we should drive my wife's 2002 VW Jetta down there instead? Hope this post doesn't further the negative mania, it's not meant to.
MM


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## RVGRINGO (May 16, 2007)

From the reports that we read, it seems that the most popular vehicles are relatively new SUVs and four door pick-up trucks; particularly the larger ones, in both cases. The incidents seem to be targeting the vehicles; not necessarily the people, contents or pocket money.
With the present economic downturn, there seems to be an increase in crime everywhere and I suspect that the majority of car-jackings or robberies have little to do with the drug cartel competition causing violence along the border and major drug routes.


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## stevenvillatoro (Jan 25, 2010)

I have now nearly discarded my dream returning to Mexico to retire. While my reason is not violence, per se, it is related. I believe that the true damage to Mexico will be the perceptual "fallout" of the negative media hype and resulting public hysteria. Specifically, I believe that Mexico's tourist real estate market has been, and will continue to be, devastated by public perceptions, whether valid or not. If I were to buy a nice home in Mexico, which was my plan, I believe that any "exit strategy," if I were to want to sell it, would be severely crippled – in terms of resale value and time on the market – by news of drug cartels and growing violence, kidnappings, torture, etc.* In the housing marketplace, buyers' perceptions count more than any truth.*


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## lizzers (Sep 21, 2008)

MangoMike said:


> As we plan to retire in Mazatlan we seem to be bombarded from all directions with statements like "Are you Crazy?", or "You are naive to think you can be safe in Mexico", or here's a good one, ... "they will kidnap your wife/husband, cut off a finger and demand all your savings be withdrawn and given to them". All this negativity is really putting a damper on things.  Personally, I believe the odds are huge that none of this will ever happen to us. After all, how many Americans, Canadians, or Europeans visit and/or live in Mexico, and how many has it happened to? Does anyone have the statistics? I just want to be able to shut these people up. Of course that's probably hoping for too much!
> Thanks,
> MangoMike


Hey Mike,
I'm living in Mexico City which once was dubbed as "the most dangerous city in the world". I feel very safe in Mexico. I do not do things I wouldn't do in the states, like walk alone through parks at night, flash money around, etc, etc. 

As far as kidnapping goes, kidnappers usually are known by the family (a disgruntled ex worker, ex driver, ex maid's boyfriend) and are targeted because they know the family has money from a business. They don't usually mess with foreigners because a) they don't know who you are and if you even have money and b) getting a ransom from someone who doesn't speak their language is kind of hard. 

I just had my 65 year old mom visit me here and she commented on how safe she felt and how the news really gives Mexico a bad image. I'm not denying the narco violence that is going on in the north, but if you are not involved with drugs or drug dealers you should have no problem.

Elizabeth


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## conklinwh (Dec 19, 2009)

Actually, I think that there is a deliberate attempt by the US media to play up the violence in Mexico to try to slow the migration. As best I understand, there are some 2M Americans that live part or full time in Mexico and that is projected to triple in the next 5-10 years. I thinlk the last number scares the powers in the US as these are primarily the payers versus receivers. I think investment in Mexico, subject to location, location, etc., has at least the value as in the US. However as a retiree, my focus is the value while I live there, not the appreciation when I'm gone.
BTW, we have a NYC TV satellite, the NYC evening news is really scary, I'm glad I'm here as basically no crime.


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## RVGRINGO (May 16, 2007)

It is sad that the incidents that do happen are magnified and propagandized by the US media, primarily for the sake of sensationalizing the news, as usual. As previous posters have stated, we live here in comfort and safety, as we have for many years, and many travel back and forth from Mexico to the USA and Canada, by car, without incident. Some have noticed a bit more security on the known drug routes, but nothing else out of the ordinary. By far, the biggest danger, as anywhere, is an automobile accident.
Unfortunately, the effect upon the tourist industry in Mexico is devastating and there is no reason for it. I am reminded of the 1960's when the US government instituted a program to limit travel of citizens to other countries, even including the wives and families of military men transferred abroad. It was patently illegal and unconstitutional and we quickly won that battle when the military illegally held their passports. Of course, that was when Congress would actually help individuals.
Another result of the current situation is that Canadians are flying Mexican airlines directly from Canada to Mexico. They're doing this, in some cases, to avoid driving through border states; but also because they fear the medical costs in the USA, in the event of an accident, and flying eliminates the need to purchase extra travel insurance. As a result, the USA loses their tourist dollar too.


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## hando4949 (Jun 22, 2009)

I live here in Mazatlan, and there is a lot off violence towards the drug people. Do I feel safe, YES, but that does not mean that any time when I am out driveing, or walking around, something is not going to happen. You have to be alert anywhere in the world.
I believe there have been a lot more car-jacking's, inorcent people shot by drive by shootings in the states then here in Mexico.
VIOLENCE IS EVERYWHERE.
If you are going to live your life in fear, I can only suggest you build a bomb shelter and stay in it.
For me, I will take my chance in Paradise.
AUS MEX


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## gypsywifey (Apr 23, 2010)

I believe you are correct conklin. The Baby Boomers will be continue to retire for another 10 years. Retiring in Canada(where I am from) is not an option unless I want to just get by.

The U.S and Canada are so afraid of all the retirement dollars moving south. What do they expect? I am more afraid to live in Toronto or Los Angeles.

My husband and I are so excited to be moving to Mexico. We have been at least a dozen times. 

Does anyone have any info on Lake Patzcuaro?


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## Farmer Jo (Dec 17, 2008)

*Slow the migration?*

Interesting concept...we want to live in Mexico and a lot of Mexicans want to come north. My Spanish tutor (from Mexico) told me about a movement called La Raza (The Race) in which Mexico "will" take over a portion of the US (Google La Raza and see the images & web results)...and he says La Raza is responsible for a good portion of the (Latino involved) violence in the southern US. I don't know anything about it, but perhaps the Mexicans "want" the US media to play up the violence?



conklinwh said:


> Actually, I think that there is a deliberate attempt by the US media to play up the violence in Mexico to try to slow the migration. As best I understand, there are some 2M Americans that live part or full time in Mexico and that is projected to triple in the next 5-10 years. I thinlk the last number scares the powers in the US as these are primarily the payers versus receivers. I think investment in Mexico, subject to location, location, etc., has at least the value as in the US. However as a retiree, my focus is the value while I live there, not the appreciation when I'm gone.
> BTW, we have a NYC TV satellite, the NYC evening news is really scary, I'm glad I'm here as basically no crime.


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## Vortexijah (Oct 20, 2009)

How do you get NYC TV satellite? What service do you use? Thanks!


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## RVGRINGO (May 16, 2007)

Vortexijah said:


> How do you get NYC TV satellite? What service do you use? Thanks!


Telmex provides some Dish channels from the USA. Some satellite services may include certain US feeds. However, this will vary with your location, so visit the suppliers and view what they have to offer. All of them have some English programming and many channels have SAP capability (secondary audio programming) if your TV has that feature.


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## Vortexijah (Oct 20, 2009)

Thanks RVGRINGO!


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## HolyMole (Jan 3, 2009)

stevenvillatoro said:


> I have now nearly discarded my dream returning to Mexico to retire......... I believe that Mexico's tourist real estate market has been, and will continue to be, devastated by public perceptions, whether valid or not. If I were to buy a nice home in Mexico, which was my plan, I believe that any "exit strategy," if I were to want to sell it, would be severely crippled – in terms of resale value and time on the market – by news of drug cartels and growing violence, kidnappings, torture, etc.* In the housing marketplace, buyers' perceptions count more than any truth.*


The solution, of course, is to rent, rather than buy. Then, if conditions worsen, you're relatively free and clear to leave whenever you feel it necessary. And anyone who expects to make a profit these days on real estate, short or long-term, in Mexico or anywhere else, might be better putting a few dollars on the horses, or buying lottery tickets. 

We just returned from almost 6 months in Zihuatanejo and drove some 12,000 km in Mexico. As for violence, there was the usual handful of muggings and several knifings of tourists in Ixtapa/Zihua. A few hotel rooms were burgled. There were the usual (high) number of army/navy/marine troops and traffic, municipal, state and federal police evident, and lots of those totally ineffective roadblocks. The only visible change from previous years was the number of security people wearing full-face balaclavas.....which is a clear indication of how secure the security people feel. 

After driving more than 50,000 km in Mexico over the past few years, we have yet to get a ticket, and have never yet been stopped for a shakedown or "mordida". Touch wood. 
(This winter I talked my way out of a well-deserved ticket for going through a red light in San Luis Potosi, which was a feat because my Spanish is very limited and the officer spoke not one word of English).

As for the poster who worried about his 2001 vehicle being a target by car-jackers: I continue to be amazed at the number of new vehicles...including lots of $50,000 pick-ups and SUV's....in a supposedly "poor" country. That 2001 vehicle will stick out more for being so old.


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## moisheh (Jun 14, 2009)

Any discusion of violence in Mexico tends to get polarized. But anyone who thinks that the violence level is no big deal is living in a bubble. Every major highway that enters the mainland has suffered from cartel violence. The car jackings have nothing to do with the economy. It is the cartels. Maz. has had a lot of incidents including areas frequented by tourists. Highay 15 has had some major incidents: A bus driver assaulted and shot in the throat. 3 RV's that were stopped just as the cartels were setting up a road block. They were released but later the cartels killed some people. A Mexican citizen refused to stop for a road block in Sonora and was shot multiple times. A US citizen was killed for his nw truck near Santa Anna, Sonora last week. There are safe areas but I would certainly not drive past Guaymas on Hwy. 15 . Nor would I enter near N.L. or Juarez . Read the latest from the US State Dept. It is getting much worse. If you do not value your life it is fine!!

Moisheh


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## RVGRINGO (May 16, 2007)

I know that you are both commenting from British Columbia and Manitoba, Canada, and I can't help but wonder if your opinions are based on experience living, long term, in Mexico or simply from press releases and multiple reports of individual incidents.
We love Canada and have spent a lot of time there, so understand your viewpoint and perspective.
We have also spent most of our lives in the USA and we don't feel particularly safe there. However, since the majority of violent crime is drug related, it hardly ever involves visitors, tourists or expats living here.
That said, and since this seems to be heading into a political discussion, I'm going to close this thread.


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## RVGRINGO (May 16, 2007)

Please go to "How are expats affected by drug violence in Mexico?"


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