# Temporary Vehicle Permit Expired - What now?!



## Vallartense (Apr 1, 2013)

My wife and I moved to Puerto Vallarta Mexico 5 years ago. We have had FM3 visas during this entire time and have had our USA plated vehicle with us. Last summer we decided to drive our first car back to the USA and leave it there with a relative in the Seattle Washington area and buy a new car to bring back to Vallarta. We temporarily imported this vehicle into Mexico in late August 2012 and the permit expiry date was set as the expiry date of our current FM3 visas, February 24, 2013.

When it came time to renew our FM3 visas, we went the INM the customary 30 days before expiry. Our current visas were examined and we were told that because this was our 4th renewal, we either had to switch to a new Residente Permanente. We asked about our brand new foreign plated vehicle and we were casually told to remove it from Mexico. HuH? And put it where, our only home in Mexico. No problem, we could still have a foreign plated car in Mexico if we applied instead for a Residente Temporal. So, we decided to go that route. 

Issue 1: Before one can apply for a Residente Temporal, our then FM3 visas must be expired for 2 days. So I ask: But, if our Visas expire, so does our Vehicle permit. Not INM's problem. Contact Aduana.

Issue 2: When trying to get more info from Aduana about how to handle this situation, I was told that a foreign plated vehicle was not authorized for ANY new Mexican immigration statuses. Not Temporal. Not Permanente. Only under the prior FM3 and certain FM2 designations. "Perhaps the laws will change, senor...next week, next month, perhaps next year." Seriously, this is what he told me. Meanwhile, our Temporary Vehicle Import permit has expired while waiting for our new Residente Temporal Visas to be processed. We had to forfeit our 400 bond since we could not provide the information to Aduana they required to extend our bond and permit.

So, as of today I have a 4 year Residente Temporal Visa and a new car (with only 6500miles on it with an expired Temporary Vehicle Import Permit) that I'm supposed to remove from Mexico and cannot reimport it under my new visa. It is not clear where I will put this vehicle in the USA, since my home, my only home is in Mexico. Not their problem.

Issue 3: Aduana tells me the car cannot be driven, but it must be removed from Mexico. So, I asked how I can remove it if it cannot be driven. The person said there is a special permit that can be secured from some obscure govenment office in Guadalajara that will permit a vehicle with an expired permit to be driven for 5 days for purposes of removing it from Mexico. I have not been able to find any information about this permit. Has anyone ever heard about one? I do hope I can get one in Vallarta.

I keep looking for answers on this vehicle issue, but all I seem to find is speculation. Had we known about the issues created between INM and Aduana over the new INM visas, we would never have purchased the new car in the USA, but instead from the Honda dealer in Vallarta.

We even inquired about nationalizing the new car, but even though it is new, it must have less than 1000km or it must be 8 or 9 years old to do so. It doesn't qualify.

Dead ends at every turn. This is going to cost us a lot of money any way we go.


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## circle110 (Jul 20, 2009)

I think issue #2 is not accurate. Either that or a great many of us here are in the same boat as you. I know that one regular poster here has recently gone to Aduana and renewed his importada temporal to stay in sync with his residente temporal visa. I will be doing the same thing as soon as my renewed visa card arrives at the local INM and hope to not have any trouble either.

Is there another Aduana location you can inquire at? These regulations (or lack thereof) are frequently interpreted differently in different offices or even between two clerks in the same office.


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## JRinPV (Jul 2, 2012)

You will need a 'RETORNO SEGURO' Safe Return document issued by the Aduana.
Vehculos - Importación temporal de vehículos. Retorno seguro
The "Retorno Seguro" resolution is issued the day the application is submitted and the clock starts ticking at that moment. You may request 3 to 5 days to take the vehicle out of Mexico.


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## RVGRINGO (May 16, 2007)

Without the Retorno Seguro, your car is subject to confiscation, not just impoundment, so do not drive it until you are in posession of that document and headed north.
I believe that you must also return to the USA to apply for another Residente Temporal visa, but could go to Residente Permanente, with a 4 on your current visa, while still in Mexico.
I also believe that Residente Temporal will allow you to continue to keep a foreign plated vehicle; however, if your importada temporal is expired, you have created a Catch-22 situation and must remove the vehicle and start over again.


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## Vallartense (Apr 1, 2013)

Thanks for this info! I'm quite sure it is what I was looking for!

I think I will go into the local SAT office with my info and story to see if I might be treated like Circle110's friend. It would be more than wonderful if they simply stamped the form and extended my TIP. After all, that is all I want. If that fails, then I will have to return the car to the US and sell it at a big loss and fly back to Vallarta and buy a new one at a big premium. Uhg.


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## Vallartense (Apr 1, 2013)

We thought we would have to return to the USA to apply for a Residente Temporal as well. But, we hired an attorney and he handled it locally. I now have a 4 year Residente Temporal visa in hand, but the process of getting it required my FM3 to expire and thus my TIP to expire. So now I'm trying to deal with that. 

I have heard stories of people entering Mexico at the border with the new Residente Temporal visas and being issued a TIP. I've also read Circle110's account about his friend just going into Aduana (presumably after a transition from FM3 to Residente Temporal like me) and having them extend his TIP. But, I've called Aduana on the phone and the person I spoke with said that there is no present legal basis for importation of a foreign car under a Residente Temporal visa. And, since my existing TIP has expired, I must remove the car from Mexico and it cannot be reimported under my current visa.


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## Lopo (Apr 2, 2013)

There is a very thorough discussion of these issues on another forum, and the most recent entry addresses your issue of renewing the TIP under your Residente Temporal. I'm not sure how you were able to get a Residente Temporal without returning to the consulate in your own country, which I had to do, but if you have the Residente Temporal in your hand, this link will help you with the number of a person in aduana in the D.F. who will instruct your local office to renew your TIP, hopefully. 
Well, I just found out that I can't post the link to another site as a brand new member of this forum so google "surviving yucatan" or "yucalandia."


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## AlanMexicali (Jun 1, 2011)

Vallartense said:


> We thought we would have to return to the USA to apply for a Residente Temporal as well. But, we hired an attorney and he handled it locally. I now have a 4 year Residente Temporal visa in hand, but the process of getting it required my FM3 to expire and thus my TIP to expire. So now I'm trying to deal with that.
> 
> I have heard stories of people entering Mexico at the border with the new Residente Temporal visas and being issued a TIP. I've also read Circle110's account about his friend just going into Aduana (presumably after a transition from FM3 to Residente Temporal like me) and having them extend his TIP. But, I've called Aduana on the phone and the person I spoke with said that there is no present legal basis for importation of a foreign car under a Residente Temporal visa. And, since my existing TIP has expired, I must remove the car from Mexico and it cannot be reimported under my current visa.


I have read that a Residente Temporal visa holder will not be able to use TIPs anymore. First from a meeting someone posted about in Mazatlan or was it Puerto Vallarta with INM officials and ADUANA officials about 6 or 7 weeks ago and a few personal posts on a couple of other sites I read where some posters were told the same by ADUANA officials in various locations. Alan


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## circle110 (Jul 20, 2009)

The site that Lopo refers to states that Aduana DF is making the various local Aduana offices unify their policy to allow "residente temporal" holders to renew their TIP to coordinate with their visa expiration date, just like the old days. It also gives the phone number of the woman who is the director of Aduana car policy in el DF. She says that you can call her if you are having trouble renewing your TIP at a specific location and she will set them straight on the national policy.

Very helpful information, thanks Lopo.


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## Vallartense (Apr 1, 2013)

All very helpful and encouraging information. I will enlist the translation help of a Mexican friend this week and visit Aduana and confront them with the info from Aduana DF to gauge their reaction. I'll provide my friend and the local Aduana person with the phone number provided if they baulk at renewal. I'll let you all know the outcome.


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## RVGRINGO (May 16, 2007)

It might be better for you to call DF and let them advise your PV Aduana office. To confront them yourself might result in other problems; lost paperwork, visa irregularities, etc.


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## telcoman (Feb 11, 2010)

RVGRINGO said:


> Without the Retorno Seguro, your car is subject to confiscation, not just impoundment, so do not drive it until you are in posession of that document and headed north.
> I believe that you must also return to the USA to apply for another Residente Temporal visa, but could go to Residente Permanente, with a 4 on your current visa, while still in Mexico.
> I also believe that Residente Temporal will allow you to continue to keep a foreign plated vehicle; however, if your importada temporal is expired, you have created a Catch-22 situation and must remove the vehicle and start over again.


That brings up an interesting point. There was a guy in Melaque whose truck broke down last year. It could not be repaired so he left it. He bought a new truck (under wife's name) and drove it down this year. He is now towing the broke down truck back across the border (no permit). Obviously he forfeits the deposit, but I am wondering if he can legally tow this truck without a temp permit. It will be interesting to see how he makes out.


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## Vallartense (Apr 1, 2013)

On 11 April 2013 I made an appointment with the local SAT office in Vallarta to discuss my situation. Today, 23 April 2013 the appointment day arrived. I took along my dual language friend to help, which was more than necessary! After stating my case and providing all of my documents I was told my vehicle was presently illegal and could not be made legal except be returning it to the border. Even then, he could not guarantee the car could be re-imported at temporary, but he did say I had provided good documentation for my case that it should be. He provided me with an Safe Return application and provided me with instructions for where to return it for processing. He said it would take from 3 to 5 working days to obtain the formal Safe Return document which, when picked up would begin my 5 days to remove the vehicle from Mexico. 

I questioned the SAT agent about things I'd heard about what I believed to be similarly situated foreigners receiving extensions of their TIPs in other areas of Mexico and provided him with the information I'd received about the position on this matter according to Ms. Villasenor of ADUANA DF, and I provided him her phone number. He was not the slightest bit interested in consulting with her and simply said that anyone telling me that I could make this vehicle legal without returning it to the border was misinformed.

So, even though I have no guarantee I will be able to re-import this car under my current Residente Temporal visa, I have to drive it out of Mexico or risk having it confiscated by Federal Police if I am ever stopped by them.

As a last resort, I'm trying to find out if I can nationalize the car here in Vallarta (since it is virtually new), but that is also not looking good either.

My Mexican friend is going to try to contact an official at ADUANA in Nuevo Larado to determine if I will be able to obtain a temporary import permit under my current visa. So, at least we will know before we set off for the border.

This is all very trying and very expensive. If only I'd known all of this before last summer, I'd have bought our new car in Vallarta instead of Seattle. Argggg!


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## kcowan (Jul 24, 2010)

The intent behind the new visas is to ONLY allow 6 month visas to import foreign vehicles. This implies that such vehicles must be returned to the border within 6 months before being reimported. Our friends have a 2011 Chevy Equinox and they are currently trying to make it legal again.

In our case, we have a 1993 Explorer which we are driving illegally in PV (imported in 2008 and converted to an FM3 with the original TIP). The 4th renewal of the FM3 prompted a conversion to residente permanente. We have 400 pesos in the glove box in case we get challenged.

Only in Mexico would they declare 500,000 vehicles suddenly illegal. Hey let us pay some money to get them legal!


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## JRinPV (Jul 2, 2012)

Your import permit was "Temporary" in the first place.


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## Vallartense (Apr 1, 2013)

Although I was on the verge of obtaining Safe Return Permit, I followed a line of persistence based on the success stories of others.

I returned to the Aduana 'window' at the Puerto Vallarta airport with a Spanish speaking friend in tow last week and the person he spoke to (the same person I spoke to 2 months ago, who seemed clueless about my TIP extension request) seemed to know exactly what to do this time. Ah-ha! They now have a procedure! He produced a form (different that the one I'd been given previously) basically an application for TIP extension. I was instructed to complete the form and provide copies of the requested documentation and was told to return it to the window. I did so, but initially found out that because I had signed the application at home, it was not acceptable. It must be signed in their presence. After completing a new version and signing it in his presence, I needed to go get two copies made. Of course, there is no place at the airport to get copies made. I did find a place nearby and got the requested copies. Finally, I returned with all of the ducks in a row and the original and both copies were ceremoniously stamped. 

I was verbally instructed to keep the stamped copy in my vehicle pending receipt of a decision letter from Aduana DF in 2 to 3 weeks. The stamped copy should be shown to any police that might stop me and question my TIP expiry. The stamped copy is to provide evidence that I am complying with the law and my extension request is in process.

I am encouraged, at long last.


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