# Fbar/Fatca for US person below filing limit



## Verdande (Apr 30, 2013)

An very elderly non-computerised friend has a question. She only receives a small pension from the US and her income is below the 10,700 US dollars reporting level. So she has not filed US income tax forms for some years. But she does have a savings account abroad which is over the US 10,000 cut-off. I don't know if she is at the Fatca level. 
I did check the info on the irs webpage, and it appears that if she does not have to file because of her very low income, then she does not have to file a Fatca form either. But what should she do about the Fbar filing? Can she ask someone else to file for her - she has no email address and does not use a computer.
Thank you for any advice - I myself am now happily just British instead of dual US- what a relief!


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## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

FATCA and FBAR are two very separate filing requirements. If your friend does not have to file an income tax return, due to the filing thresholds, then she does not need to file the FATCA form.

Technically, she does have to file FBARs if the combined total of her foreign accounts is greater than $10,000. It is possible for a friend or family member to file FBARs for her, using their own e-mail address, as long as she gives them the necessary information (including her US social security number). The friend does not need to register as a professional preparer. 
Cheers,
Bev


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## BBCWatcher (Dec 28, 2012)

Exactly $10,000 is also enough to trigger FinCEN Form 114.


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## iota2014 (Jul 30, 2015)

Optionally, there's a form 114a which can be signed by your friend and the person doing the FBAR filing, to give legal authorisation (https://www.fincen.gov/forms/files/FBARE-FileAuth114aRecordSP.pdf)

It doesn't have to be returned to the IRS so it's up to the parties concerned if they want to use it or not.



> Thank you for any advice - I myself am now happily just British instead of dual US- what a relief!


Hear hear! I renounced recently- best $2350 I ever spent!


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## JustLurking (Mar 25, 2015)

BBCWatcher said:


> Exactly $10,000 is also enough to trigger FinCEN Form 114.


Really? Because that's not what FinCEN's own instructions say:


> *Who Must File an FBAR.* A United States person that has a financial interest in or signature authority over foreign financial accounts must file an FBAR if the aggregate value of the foreign financial accounts exceeds $10,000 at any time during the calendar year.


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## iota2014 (Jul 30, 2015)

JustLurking said:


> Really? Because that's not what FinCEN's own instructions say:


Common sense suggests if aggregated total is hovering around $10,000, go shopping.


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## ForeignBody (Oct 20, 2011)

JustLurking said:


> Really? Because that's not what FinCEN's own instructions say:


Depends where you look: https://www.irs.gov/Businesses/Comparison-of-Form-8938-and-FBAR-Requirements


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## BBCWatcher (Dec 28, 2012)

Good catch, JustLurking! I was referring to the IRS's comparison table between IRS Form 8938 and FinCEN Form 114, but the table is a bit oversimplified in that respect. (ForeignBody just made the same point.)

The _best_ place to look is 31 CFR 103.27(c) since that's the actual regulation. Fortunately the regulation matches the instructions accompanying FinCEN Form 114. So it's "exceeds $10,000." Theoretically you could have exactly US$10,000 held in a non interest bearing, U.S. dollar denominated, foreign financial account and, if that's your only applicable account, you would not be subject to FinCEN Form 114 reporting. Add a penny or more at any moment in time and you would be.

Note that you would still be required to disclose the account(s) on IRS Form 1040 Schedule B Part III if you are required to file a U.S. tax return. If it's a foreign trust then there's another IRS form for that.

Good times.  You'll get no argument from me that these ~4 ways to report foreign financial accounts could be simplified.


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## Verdande (Apr 30, 2013)

Thank you to all repliers - Bevs information confirms what I had thought. She does have to send an Fbar as she said she was considerably over the 10,000 - but her income is very limited, so no income reporting=no Fatca forms.
To all trying to make head and tail of these reporting requirements - you can do it, but it certainly takes very careful reading and keeping a cool head. 
And to iota2014 - I got a bargain paying 450 dollars before the recent 5 fold fee increase!
Thank you for an excellent forum


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