# EEA Family Permit for Ireland



## andyanansu (Oct 2, 2012)

Hiya

I need some help because my wife have her EEA Family Permit rejected from the Ireland Embassy in China.

I'm a british citizen and my wife is Chinese.

We were married in Nov 2011 and just have a daughter in July 2012.

Our baby daughter have a british passport.

I'm currently living and working in London, UK

and my wife is currently looking after the new baby in china, not working.
she have enough money from her own saving and I sometime send money back to her.

She have applied for the British EEA Family Permit before (in July 2012) but go
t rejected based on that I'm a Btitish and currently in UK, so can't be using the EEA Family Permit for her to enter to the UK.

So we changed tactic, that now we want to go to Ireland first (by Irish EEA Family Permit), live and work there for maybe a year, then return to the UK (by UK EEA Family Permit).

So she applied for the Irish EEA Family Permit, 

but this time, we had a rejection saying that *she might have the intention to move to the UK?!!!*

I can't see why this can be a reason?

Why they are worrying that my wife might (illegally) move to another country?

As far as I'm aware, that she is qualified under the EU Law to enter Ireland.

I know this might be rare, but does anyone have a similar rejection?

We wants to appeal, but what evident can we provides to proof that we won't be illegally moving into the UK?

Any helps appreciated!

Cheers

Andy


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## andyanansu (Oct 2, 2012)

the exact words are:
OC:- Condition - The applicant may branch into the Common Travel Area between Ireland and the UK.

can anyone one tell me why does ireland refusing my wife's visa based on this reason?

Cheers

Andy


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

andyanansu said:


> the exact words are:
> OC:- Condition - The applicant may branch into the Common Travel Area between Ireland and the UK.
> 
> can anyone one tell me why does ireland refusing my wife's visa based on this reason?


Yes, they can and do that.

Both UK and Ireland are on the lookout for those using either country as a way of easing their entry into the other, mainly to get round its own immigration rules. So UKBA will be suspicious of those who apply for EEA family permit in order to facilitate moving to Ireland, and Irish immigration is concerned about those applying for Irish EU permit whose true motive may be to live in UK. So in each case the applicant will be told to apply for relevant permit or visa direct from the country which is their ultimate destination.

In your particular case, it was flagged up presumably because you don't live and work in Ireland (yet), you live in UK and apparently have a home there, and there is no obvious connection to Ireland. Plus both immigration authorities (UKBA and INIS) have access to each other's databases and must have found out that her previous application for EEA family permit was rejected by UK, so they know your family want to settle in UK. True, you do have the right under EU rules to exercise your treaty rights in Ireland, but under the common travel area agreement, both countries have agreed to police possible circumvention of native immigration rules, with the agreement of EU. The presence of common travel area makes your strategy pretty unworkable.

You can try living and working in another EEA country, and apply for her EEA family permit under Surinder Singh route. Or apply for her spouse visa under UK immigration rules. While the latter costs money, provided you earn £18,600 a year, it shouldn't be too difficult and possibly a lot easier than to try to live in France, Germany, Spain etc.


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## andyanansu (Oct 2, 2012)

Joppa said:


> Yes, they can and do that.
> 
> Both UK and Ireland are on the lookout for those using either country as a way of easing their entry into the other, mainly to get round its own immigration rules. So UKBA will be suspicious of those who apply for EEA family permit in order to facilitate moving to Ireland, and Irish immigration is concerned about those applying for Irish EU permit whose true motive may be to live in UK. So in each case the applicant will be told to apply for relevant permit or visa direct from the country which is their ultimate destination.
> 
> ...




many thanks for your detailed response!

yes, i'm not rich and my income is not high enough for 18.6k
and that are some of the reasons of why we don't apply for the spouse visa

a few more questions followed from your response:

how long do i have to work in ireland before i can apply the eea again for that to work?

my daughter held a british passport, so does that count as a dependent child of mine so that i have to earn even more in order to apply for the spouse visa for thte uk?

my wife suggest me to find a solicitor or something to let them do it, because we are not 'professionals'! can you recommend any good value for money solicitors? in london ideally.

looking forward to your response again!

cheers

andy


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

andyanansu said:


> many thanks for your detailed response!
> 
> yes, i'm not rich and my income is not high enough for 18.6k
> and that are some of the reasons of why we don't apply for the spouse visa
> ...


You can only rely on Surinder Singh route to get EEA family Permit for your wife. This time you apply to UKBA (not Irish consulate), so different set of conditions apply. 6 months is considered a reasonable time to show you are exercising economic right in an EEA country.



> my daughter held a british passport, so does that count as a dependent child of mine so that i have to earn even more in order to apply for the spouse visa for thte uk?


No. You just need £18,600.



> my wife suggest me to find a solicitor or something to let them do it, because we are not 'professionals'! can you recommend any good value for money solicitors? in london ideally.


I doubt any solicitor can pull strings, and they are almost all very expensive (£1000 is typical). You can get free immigration advice, maybe through the citizens advice or through Legal Advice and Assistance | Joint Council for the Welfare of Immigrants (they charge £60 for initial session).


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## andyanansu (Oct 2, 2012)

Joppa said:


> You can only rely on Surinder Singh route to get EEA family Permit for your wife. This time you apply to UKBA (not Irish consulate), so different set of conditions apply. 6 months is considered a reasonable time to show you are exercising economic right in an EEA country.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Thanks again for your quick response, 

I had a little search and read on the Surinder Singh case, 
a very different situation to mine. Because he was already in the UK when he lost his right to remains in the UK. 
but my wife need to get the permission into the uk and this would be our ultimate goal.
and we wants this to be done as soon as possible, due to the new baby and its hard for us to be apart.
(i did tried living with her in china, but its hard for me to find a job and life is very stressful so not a long term solution)


So just to make it absolutely clear, is this what you are suggesting in the 1st sentance? (please correct me If i'm wrong):
I will need to go to Ireland first, find a job, work for at least 6 months, then my wife can apply the Irish EEA Family Permit.
After she got to the Ireland, then she then apply for the UK EEA Family Permit so we can go back to the UK together.


Many Thanks Again!!!

Andy


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

andyanansu said:


> So just to make it absolutely clear, is this what you are suggesting in the 1st sentance? (please correct me If i'm wrong):
> I will need to go to Ireland first, find a job, work for at least 6 months, then my wife can apply the Irish EEA Family Permit.
> After she got to the Ireland, then she then apply for the UK EEA Family Permit so we can go back to the UK together.


She has to live with you in Ireland for the duration of your work there. She will need a EU permit to enter Ireland. See http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/Pages/Join Family#NON_EEA_Family_Member_of_EU_Citizen. She needs to either arrive together with you, or join you later.


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## andyanansu (Oct 2, 2012)

Joppa said:


> She has to live with you in Ireland for the duration of your work there. She will need a EU permit to enter Ireland. See inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/Pages/Join%20Family#NON_EEA_Family_Member_of_EU_Citizen. She needs to either arrive together with you, or join you later.



Sorry, is EU Permit same as EEA Family Permit?

having search on google, and read more forums.

it have come across to me that someone have successfully got their wife's VISIT VISA change to a EEA Family Permit once she is in the UK, is that possible?

I might look in to this for more details if possible.

Cheers

Andy


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

andyanansu said:


> Sorry, is EU Permit same as EEA Family Permit?


It's the Irish version of EEA family permit.



> having search on google, and read more forums.
> 
> it have come across to me that someone have successfully got their wife's VISIT VISA change to a EEA Family Permit once she is in the UK, is that possible?
> 
> I might look in to this for more details if possible.


That won't be possible in your case, because you are a British citizen. Within UK you can't exercise your treaty rights so you and your wife will be subject to UK rules. If you were a French citizen and living in UK, that scenario would be possible.
Be careful about googling, because not everything you read online is correct or applies exactly to your case.


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## andyanansu (Oct 2, 2012)

ic, so i guess the easiest option would be for me to go to Ireland asap wouldn't it?

If I do go to Ireland and find a job there within a month or less, paying tax and all that, 

Then, she can apply for the Ireland EEA again, say, in a month's time, would the previous rejected EEA count against her?

what would you do in this case? or if you have any other option that you can think of that would works that i might have missed out?


on another note:
do you think they rejected my wife's irish eea is because she had her uk eea rejected therefore revealing that she is ultimately going for the uk?
or is it simply just because i'm not in the ireland paying irish tax at the time she was applying?


another question:
CAN people apply for eea to use for short term holiday travels with their partners rather than long term settles?


Thanks for all you helps, much appreciated.

Andy


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

andyanansu said:


> ic, so i guess the easiest option would be for me to go to Ireland asap wouldn't it?
> 
> If I do go to Ireland and find a job there within a month or less, paying tax and all that,
> 
> ...


It would help for you to be established with a job and accommodation in Ireland. Then she can apply for permit to join you in Ireland. As you are actually exercising your treaty rights (though British citizens have always had the right to live and work in Ireland, and _vice versa_, long before EU). Itish authorities have little ground for refusing her request. But do remember the parlous state of Irish economy, and the difficulty of finding a job.



> on another note:
> do you think they rejected my wife's irish eea is because she had her uk eea rejected therefore revealing that she is ultimately going for the uk?
> or is it simply just because i'm not in the ireland paying irish tax at the time she was applying?


I think both. As they have access to UK immigration database, they must have found out about her failed application for UK EEA permit, which showed her intention to live in UK.



> another question:
> CAN people apply for eea to use for short term holiday travels with their partners rather than long term settles?


Yes, that's perfectly ok.


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