# Need an ICP installed



## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Our house has no ICP so we are paying fines of €20 a month to endesa...well, we aren't as we are deducting them from the rent. We nagged our landlord into having an ICP installed so he found an electrician who came, looked at the fuse box, said he'd be back and not to worry as he would notify endesa we were having the switch installed.
Well, he didn't come back and we/ landlord still pay a fine.
So we are going to have to take matters into our own hands, which will please our easy-going landlord.
So:'i read that you can rent an ICP from endesa...is this the case?
If an electrician instals the device, must it be 'signed off ' by endesa? 
Roughly how much does it cost to have one installed?
Thanks in advance..


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

mrypg9 said:


> Our house has no ICP so we are paying fines of €20 a month to endesa...well, we aren't as we are deducting them from the rent. We nagged our landlord into having an ICP installed so he found an electrician who came, looked at the fuse box, said he'd be back and not to worry as he would notify endesa we were having the switch installed.
> Well, he didn't come back and we/ landlord still pay a fine.
> So we are going to have to take matters into our own hands, which will please our easy-going landlord.
> So:'i read that you can rent an ICP from endesa...is this the case?
> ...


You do not need to rent an ICP. Any good electrician can install one. It does NOT have to be signed off by Endesa but the electrician must do the necessary paperwork.

However, they may have to check your wiring to make sure that it's 'up-to-spec' - this will require a boletin. I'm not sure on this last point as I presume you will not be altering the potencia but simply installing the ICP.

I read some where that ICP's are being phased out in favour of 'smart meters'. There is a law which states that everyone MUST have a smart meter by xxx (date not known). This meter then does away with the need for an ICP!


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## extranjero (Nov 16, 2012)

Apparently when everyone has the new smart meter, the ICP is already incorporated! Perhaps it's worth asking your landlord to enquire when he will be having one put in. There seems no point in point in renting one now. Since the Electricity companies must know that every one is going to have to have these smart meters, why did they impose the necessity of paying for the ICP?
There was a lot of fuss about everyone having to have one, and we did, only to pay for another one when we upgraded! Seems to be a money making exercise.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

snikpoh said:


> You do not need to rent an ICP. Any good electrician can install one. It does NOT have to be signed off by Endesa but the electrician must do the necessary paperwork.
> 
> However, they may have to check your wiring to make sure that it's 'up-to-spec' - this will require a boletin. I'm not sure on this last point as I presume you will not be altering the potencia but simply installing the ICP.
> 
> I read some where that ICP's are being phased out in favour of 'smart meters'. There is a law which states that everyone MUST have a smart meter by xxx (date not known). This meter then does away with the need for an ICP!


Hmm food for thougt.
And thank you. Somehow I had a feeling you'd be among the first to help.
Just call me Mystic Mary...among other things...


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

extranjero said:


> Apparently when everyone has the new smart meter, the ICP is already incorporated! Perhaps it's worth asking your landlord to enquire when he will be having one put in. There seems no point in point in renting one now. Since the Electricity companies must know that every one is going to have to have these smart meters, why did they impose the necessity of paying for the ICP?
> There was a lot of fuss about everyone having to have one, and we did, only to pay for another one when we upgraded! Seems to be a money making exercise.


So maybe we should get a smart meter instead.
Our Adelbert will be paying for it whatever..


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

snikpoh said:


> I read some where that ICP's are being phased out in favour of 'smart meters'. There is a law which states that everyone MUST have a smart meter by xxx (date not known). This meter then does away with the need for an ICP!


I was just reading about this. From 1 April households on the TUR will (provided they have a smart meter) be able to pay the actual price of their electricity calculated on a daily basis, which will supposedly save us money. Alternatively you can have a fixed price for a year, more expensive but more predictable.

This replaces the _subasta _system which gave us all such a shock recently when a rise of 11% was announced.

I'm not sure how it will work if you aren't on the TUR tariff (i.e. if your potencia is more than 10 kW).

La nueva factura de la luz será anual o por horas, e Industria prevé que baje hasta un 3% - 20minutos.es


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## Madliz (Feb 4, 2011)

AAAaarrrggghhhh!! My ICP has ruined my life!!!!! 

After hubby died, I called Iberdrola to change the contract into my name. Apparently, I couldn't change it unless I had an ICP installed - 'What's that, then?' It's just an interruptor that limits your power to the amount you have contracted, which seems fair enough. They would arrange it, I had to pay around €10 for it, no problem.

Then I found that cooking lunch would trip the switch. Breakfast, with toaster and kettle, while the pool pump was running meant the power went off. Microwave and oven while vacuuming...you get the picture. The amount I had contracted was 6.6kW and it was obvious I would have to change it. 

To change the potencia contratada I had to get a new boletín to confirm that the installation could handle it. Luckily, the company that did the original installation was still in business, 20 years after the event, so I called them in, confident that they weren't going to suck teeth and tell me the original wiring was no good! It turned out that the chap they sent round remembered doing it all those years ago! Boletín in hand, €250 poorer, I contacted Iberdrola again, paid for a new ICP, upgraded to 13.8kW and had no more power cuts. I could have changed to 9kW but with aircon and pool pump to run, it seemed safer to go higher and I was confident, after reading Spanish forums, that potential buyers would appreciate it too. Life went back to normal.

With the increase in potencia came, of course, a higher standing charge. With the recent price increases, with sharp rises for the standing charge element and a drop for the amount consumed, my bills are now astronomically higher than before! Of course, with people cutting back and trying to be energy efficient the electricity companies can't be allowed to lose out.  

I see the logic in only being able to receive, at any one time, the amount of power you have contracted. The unfairness is that I am paying way more than my neighbours, who haven't changed their contracts so haven't been forced to install an ICP. 

Be warned!!!

Rant over.


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

@madliz

WOW! 

We are contracted for 5.75kW - we have aircon, ceramic hob, oven, 3 fridge/freezers, pool pump, kettle, hoover etc etc. (you get the picture) our supply never 'pops'.


@alcalaina

The problem is that the electricity suppliers (Iberdrola around here) aren't installing the new meters any time soon. Consequently, the bar stewards have still got us by the 'short n curlies' !!!


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## Madliz (Feb 4, 2011)

snikpoh said:


> @madliz
> 
> WOW!
> 
> ...


The whole episode was a steep learning curve for me! Could it have something to do with having tri-phase electricity? It 'came with the house' and I was told it is for the pool pump. I looked into changing the pump and getting rid of the tri-phase but the opinion I received was that the pump I have is more efficient and I wouldn't save money in the long run. I have to say it's all gobbledegook to me. There's always the fear that one's lack of knowledge gets taken advantage of.


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## extranjero (Nov 16, 2012)

Madliz said:


> AAAaarrrggghhhh!! My ICP has ruined my life!!!!!
> 
> After hubby died, I called Iberdrola to change the contract into my name. Apparently, I couldn't change it unless I had an ICP installed - 'What's that, then?' It's just an interruptor that limits your power to the amount you have contracted, which seems fair enough. They would arrange it, I had to pay around €10 for it, no problem.
> 
> ...


We had 3.3 in our 12 year old villa. Of course the trip switch went when we had a few things on; even more so after having the ICP installed . We had it upgraded to 5.75, which involved some rewiring, and, with the boletin, came to 600 euros. 
I am surprised in view of the age of your house that you did not need some if not all of it rewired. Why did you need such a high potencia, 5.75 is fine. We can have oven, freezer, pool pump on, no problem.
Some put a higher fuse in to avoid the switch tripping, illegal. With the smart meter they will be found out, as they will only get the power they were contracted for, so that's one good thing.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Madliz said:


> AAAaarrrggghhhh!! My ICP has ruined my life!!!!!
> 
> After hubby died, I called Iberdrola to change the contract into my name. Apparently, I couldn't change it unless I had an ICP installed - 'What's that, then?' It's just an interruptor that limits your power to the amount you have contracted, which seems fair enough. They would arrange it, I had to pay around €10 for it, no problem.
> 
> ...


Sounds awful...we are already on highest potencia, I want to change but not too sure. Big house, pool, the usual machines, hot water, cooking...


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

What is the 'boletin'? What paperwork does the electrician need..doesnhe take it to endesa or do I?


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## Madliz (Feb 4, 2011)

The electrician will come and inspect the electrical installation and will check that it complies with regulations. You pay him and get a copy. What happened next is rather a blur, that whole year was so frantic, but I think he gave the electricity company another copy and with that they approved the upgrade.


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## whitenoiz (Sep 18, 2012)

> *mrypg9*... What is the 'boletin'? What paperwork does the electrician need..doesnhe take it to endesa or do I?


The electrician himself doesnt need any documentation from you beyond a statement from you relating to the work you require him to carry out.
A 'boletin' is essentially a Safety Certificate issued by qualified and licenced electricians that the electrical installation from its point of entry to the distribution / consumer unit and the property's internal wiring complies with the latest requirements of the Spanish Regulations relating to domestic electricity supplies. In theory, any electrical work carried out after the issue of the boletin requires the issue of a new boletin. It is the basic document required by Endesa or the supplying company before they will entertain an initial contract request or a change to an existing contract. 
As to whether you or the electrician takes the boletin to Endesa, that depends on how well you get on with your leccy. In our case our leccy did it all...

_Worthy of note also is that where the contract is the first to be issued in respect of a new or refurbished property it must also be accompanied by a Licence of First Occupation._


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## Desiato (Jun 1, 2015)

*Any electricians out there?*

I'm trying to get to the bottom of the electricity problem I'm having so I'm bumping this old thread because Madliz asked the same question that I need to and she never really got an answer.. 

To summaries Madliz's situation, her supply of 6.6k/Wh would trip with various electrical appliances running whilst others on 5.75k/Wh wouldn't (and appeared to be running more appliances). The main difference between the households was that Madliz had a 3 phase supply and everyone on 5.75k/Wh had a single phase. 

The question is, when running the same appliances, does a 3 phase 6.6k/Wh line trip when a 5.75k/Wh single phase line wouldn't?

I'm in the same boat as Madliz in that I have a 13.85k/Wh supply and the bills are way too high (On average €190 a month over last 7 bills). I've bought a 3 phase line monitor that shows that I rarely go over 5k/Wh and a socket monitor that has highlighted that our back up fridge and freezer each use 2kw a day (now decommissioned). I also discovered that the pool pump which last year I often ran 24/7 through July/August doubled the bill so that is now on the minimum run time during the cheap rate (after 11pm and before 1pm). So far I've managed to get the average daily unit consumption down from 25 to 15 but the 13.85k/Wh potencia is killing us because even if I could get the average number of units down to 10 units, I've calculated that my bill would still be €125 a month. 

Our first hurdle is that the electricians (that the family has known for 20 years so trust them) are very reluctant to lower the supply to 6.95k/Wh and tried to explain that with 3 heavy usage appliances running (washing machine, dishwasher and pool pump) that it was impossible for us to have a 6.95k/Wh supply and we MUST have a 10k/Wh supply. Their main reason seemed to be because it was 3 phase supply and splitting the amps over the three lines meant things would trip much sooner. 

2nd question. My 3 phase monitor is showing my 0.75k/Wh pool pump as using 1.2k/Wh, my 36 watt fluorescent strip light bulbs as using 100 watts and my fridge freezer using 2kw a day (730kw a year which is way more than anything on the market today). Could there be something about my wiring that is causing things to read higher than they actually are or could it be the monitor giving a false reading? (I've run the tests with the monitor several times over different days and each time the same result). The monitor also detected that a touch lamp that I brought with me from the UK was using 40 watts....when it was off! I've also read that electricity comes into the house, goes around the house and then goes back to the grid and that we pay the difference between what comes in and what goes out. If that's true, that would make these electricity monitors useless but when I look at the days consumption and then check the meter, the numbers are extremely close (23 units used compared to 24 for example).

If any resident electricians could clarify any of these points I'd be extremely grateful. :fingerscrossed:


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Desiato said:


> I'm trying to get to the bottom of the electricity problem I'm having so I'm bumping this old thread because Madliz asked the same question that I need to and she never really got an answer..
> 
> To summaries Madliz's situation, her supply of 6.6k/Wh would trip with various electrical appliances running whilst others on 5.75k/Wh wouldn't (and appeared to be running more appliances). The main difference between the households was that Madliz had a 3 phase supply and everyone on 5.75k/Wh had a single phase.
> 
> ...


Interesting post. Our bills average €160 a month with a 13kw supply. We've been told much the same as you and I must say that when I hear that others get bills of half that amount when running the same or even fewer appliances I do wonder.


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## Desiato (Jun 1, 2015)

mrypg9 said:


> Interesting post. Our bills average €160 a month with a 13kw supply. We've been told much the same as you and I must say that when I hear that others get bills of half that amount when running the same or even fewer appliances I do wonder.


What's worse is that other households are paying €100 a month and they are ALL electric (and include aircons, which we don't have) whilst we have a separate gas bill. We have underfloor heating which I was told was extremely expensive to run so some years ago it was decided to install a combination boiler and a dozen radiators. I haven't got my hands on all the gas bills yet (long story, won't bore you) but I've seen three from 2011/2012 that were €671.81, €446.36 and €400.29. The most recent one I've seen was from April last year and it was for €226.25 and these are also bi-monthly. 

Add the gas and electric bills together and the numbers are frightening, I've seriously questioned whether the neighbours have somehow plugged themselves into our supplies.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Desiato said:


> What's worse is that other households are paying €100 a month and they are ALL electric (and include aircons, which we don't have) whilst we have a separate gas bill. We have underfloor heating which I was told was extremely expensive to run so some years ago it was decided to install a combination boiler and a dozen radiators. I haven't got my hands on all the gas bills yet (long story, won't bore you) but I've seen three from 2011/2012 that were €671.81, €446.36 and €400.29. The most recent one I've seen was from April last year and it was for €226.25 and these are also bi-monthly.
> 
> Add the gas and electric bills together and the numbers are frightening, I've seriously questioned whether the neighbours have somehow plugged themselves into our supplies.


Our water bills puzzle me too. We paid an average of €120 a month last year,the previous year the average was €60!!!
I've checked for leaks, there aren't any. I've been to the Aquagest office to check whether perhaps an error had been made...no.
All very odd...


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

mrypg9 said:


> Our water bills puzzle me too. We paid an average of €120 a month last year,the previous year the average was €60!!!
> I've checked for leaks, there aren't any. I've been to the Aquagest office to check whether perhaps an error had been made...no.
> All very odd...


I just checked our bills for 2014 and for water+sewage+basura we were charged €189.23 for the year. We use quite a bit of water and take our turn washing down the street (after sweeping) roughly one every three weeks. The pots on the patio get watered every other day unless it is very hot (>33°) when it is daily.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

baldilocks said:


> I just checked our bills for 2014 and for water+sewage+basura we were charged €189.23 for the year. We use quite a bit of water and take our turn washing down the street (after sweeping) roughly one every three weeks. The pots on the patio get watered every other day unless it is very hot (>33°) when it is daily.


Last year we did irrigate the 'lawns' front, back and sides but as the grass isn't proper turf I decided that this year it could take its chances. Interestingly, the lawn at the back stayed fairly green throughout the hot months without a drop of water. I put this down to the humidity. It's a big old lawn, a large plot size. The front garden which gets sun from sunrise to about midday went yellow. It seems to be reviving now.
Last quarter's bill was 360 euros. Topping up the pool would have accounted for some of that although not much.


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## Madliz (Feb 4, 2011)

Desiato, your 3-phase line monitor sounds interesting. Do you have a link to a site selling one like you have? With my bills, maybe I couldn't afford one  but the savings you have made might mean the cost is amortised in a few months.

I guess electricity bills are hard to compare, with house size and usage being so different. My bills are also €160+ a month, with a large proportion of that simply being the standing charge. I have made so many changes in recent years to keep the bills down, I don't know what else I could change to make savings, but a monitor might highlight something I haven't considered.

I have a (natural) gas boiler and radiators and hot water on demand. My bi-monthly bills last year ranged from €25 in the summer to €390 in the winter. I now have a nice wood burning fireplace insert to help keep warm in the winter and yesterday stacked a delivery of two tons of logs. Alas, I don't live at sea level (yet ) like some of you, but at 3000'/900m, and we got down to 9ºC last night. Hopefully the logs will help with the gas bills, or at least with quality of life.

Water bills last year ranged from €23 in the winter to €310 in the summer, garden watering and pool filling accounting for the difference. At least it's either gas or water bills that give the nasty surprise, not both at the same time.

I often wonder how bills would compare in the UK, not having lived there for years. What I do appreciate getting free, though, is the sunshine. 
When the sun's offline, this provides an alternative:


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## Desiato (Jun 1, 2015)

Madliz said:


> Desiato, your 3-phase line monitor sounds interesting. Do you have a link to a site selling one like you have?


I went with this one Pack e2 v1 trifásico - contador instantáneo de electricidad but I found a site selling it for €95ish, will dig out the receipt later for you. I then got this from Amazon http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B000Q7PJGW/ref=pe_385721_37986871_TE_item which was useful for finding out how much the fridge and freezer were using (and anything else that plugs into the wall). 

The strip lights are a strange one, I have a feeling I will discover there is a fault but I'll let you know when I get that tested.


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

Madliz said:


> I often wonder how bills would compare in the UK, not having lived there for years. What I do appreciate getting free, though, is the sunshine.


A friend of ours who lives with her family in a 3 bed semi in Lincolnshire (not exactly one of the coldest areas of the UK) told me her gas bill for the winter quarter was 600 pounds.

I don't suppose very many people in the UK would have pools, and the gardens probably don't need so much watering.

I have an ICP and only 3.45kw potencia, but we never get problems with things tripping. We do use a gas cooker and gas for heating, though. No pool or garden, just pot plants to keep watered. Our night time temperatures are still around 18/19C, and the indoor temperature is 26C, perfect.

My electricity bills are between €43-50 per month, gas at current prices would be less than €130 per year and my water bills are just under €15 per month.

Baldilocks, I use the water which I've mopped the floors indoors with to mop my bit of the street with after I've swept it - waste not want not! It does get jetwashed by the Council once a week, though, as well.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

I think our electricity supply is only 3.35 (the lowest) and our bill for the year was €1166.73 but the high winter months were, I think, caused by the suegra using an electric convector (invariably whacked up to the maximum, 2kW) instead of using the more economical inverter with thermostatic control although she would set that up at 30° (contrarily, she turns on the aircon as soon as the temps get above 21°.)

Most of the house (including the suegra's bedroom) is heated by a log burner (logs 150-300€ per year). Where SWMBO and I sleep and this computer is located, are in the sotano, heated by a 800w oil-filled radiator.


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## Desiato (Jun 1, 2015)

Desiato said:


> I went with this one Pack e2 v1 trifásico - contador instantáneo de electricidad but I found a site selling it for €95ish, will dig out the receipt later for you. I then got this from Amazon Plug-In Power and Energy Monitor: Amazon.co.uk: DIY & Tools which was useful for finding out how much the fridge and freezer were using (and anything else that plugs into the wall).
> 
> The strip lights are a strange one, I have a feeling I will discover there is a fault but I'll let you know when I get that tested.


Just a couple of things to note , this was the site I got the e2 monitor from Contador Instantáneo de Electricidad Efergy e2 trifásico - Monsolar.com. There are different versions available for different sized cables and I mistakenly got this one which is for 16mm cables (mine look about 9mm). There are some 12mm ones available from other suppliers but I didn't spot that until after I had bought it. They hang a bit loose around the cables but it still seems to work but it's probably better to get the right size connectors. Also check if it is the version which refreshes every 6/12/18 seconds. This one is supposed to be but they sent me the 10/15/20 second one which I've read is for the US market. I couldn't be bothered to change it and in reality, it's not a big deal. There is another model, the XL, if you have particularly large cables. You can download the pdf off the site for more info. 

Whilst the socket monitor from Amazon is handy, I probably should have bought a Spanish one as having to plug in two adapters (front and back) for Spanish appliances isn't ideal and may effect the results, who knows? (someone said on here don't by UK/Spanish adapters from the Chinese shops as they aren't up to much which may also be throwing things out as my house is full of them!).

Hope this helps.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Desiato said:


> Just a couple of things to note , this was the site I got the e2 monitor from Contador Instantáneo de Electricidad Efergy e2 trifásico - Monsolar.com. There are different versions available for different sized cables and I mistakenly got this one which is for 16mm cables (mine look about 9mm). There are some 12mm ones available from other suppliers but I didn't spot that until after I had bought it. They hang a bit loose around the cables but it still seems to work but it's probably better to get the right size connectors. Also check if it is the version which refreshes every 6/12/18 seconds. This one is supposed to be but they sent me the 10/15/20 second one which I've read is for the US market. I couldn't be bothered to change it and in reality, it's not a big deal. There is another model, the XL, if you have particularly large cables. You can download the pdf off the site for more info.
> 
> Whilst the socket monitor from Amazon is handy, I probably should have bought a Spanish one as having to plug in two adapters (front and back) for Spanish appliances isn't ideal and may effect the results, who knows? (someone said on here don't by UK/Spanish adapters from the Chinese shops as they aren't up to much which may also be throwing things out as my house is full of them!).
> 
> Hope this helps.


I've got a few of those chino adaptors and although I've seen a few that were crap, the ones I got are good enough for what is needed from them.


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## SteveScot (Feb 11, 2013)

I'm going to take a guess that Madliz' 6.6Kw potencia was split across the 3 phases; i.e. 2.2Kw on each phase, and maybe that's why it was tripping all the time? In fact, if that was the case, then a single phase 3.3Kw supply would have been a better bet lol.

The 3 ph supply will be better for running large electric motors (pool pump), but in a domestic setting, not much else. It would then be dependent how the 3 phases were split at the consumer board as to where the various loads were. Large consumers being cookers (9 Kw?) electric showers, followed by kettles, electric fires etc.


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## Desiato (Jun 1, 2015)

SteveScot said:


> I'm going to take a guess that Madliz' 6.6Kw potencia was split across the 3 phases; i.e. 2.2Kw on each phase, and maybe that's why it was tripping all the time? In fact, if that was the case, then a single phase 3.3Kw supply would have been a better bet lol.
> 
> The 3 ph supply will be better for running large electric motors (pool pump), but in a domestic setting, not much else. It would then be dependent how the 3 phases were split at the consumer board as to where the various loads were. Large consumers being cookers (9 Kw?) electric showers, followed by kettles, electric fires etc.


That's pretty much what the Spanish electricians have been saying but after reading so many posts on this site of people with 5.75kw running everything under the sun, I needed to get to the bottom of it.

So if I have a ceramic hob with a large centre ring that can draw 3kw, by your reckoning, that would trip a 3 phase 6.9kw supply? I've been reading up on the differences between 3 phase and single phase and read that in one country, if a new build estimated that your usage would be between 5 and 7kw, you would be need to have a 3 phase line. Using my 3kw figure above for my hob, the minimum you would need is a 9kw supply so in reality, you should have a 10/11 or just to be safe 13kw supply? That's quite a bit higher than the 5 to 7kw that the guidelines were saying is the point to go 3 phase. 

As a test, I held the 3 phase monitor in my hand and turned all the 5 rings on the hob on and set them to their max setting. The monitor showed a total demand of 9.5kw and then the power tripped. There was maybe 500 watts coming from other appliances in the house so that means the hob alone was using 9kw. This doesn't quite add up if the most I can use on one of my 3 lines is a third of my supply (13.85kw). Surely it should trip when the hob reached 4.5kw?

I'm still confused.


Taking it a stage further, if that's the case, why would anyone go from a single phase supply to 3 phase in a domestic situation? and how hard is it to downgrade from a 3 phase line to single phase? which as you pointed out would have been the better option for Madliz.

Cheers.


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## SteveScot (Feb 11, 2013)

I was surmising rather than dealing in definite fact regarding the load available on each 3 phase line. I'm not an electrician btw. You would need to check with a Spanish electrician as to what the case is...

It seems a strange system to me anyway, the whole 'potencia' options and the differing tariffs. Surely , as an electricity supply company, you would want folk to use as much as possible of your product? Therefore, reducing the standing charges or just having a flat rate system, and the potencia supplied to each property would be solely dependent on the actual supply wiring to the property, i.e. is it capable of handling a 10 or 15 Kw load.

Put it this way: if you had an electric cooker, an electric shower, and all electric heating, then you could potentially be looking at a current draw of easily 120 amps. 120a x 230v = 27600 watts! Now the reality is that you likely wouldn't have all those running full chat at the one time, but the potential is there...

I just have the basic 3.3Kw supply to my property, so I had to choose just an electric oven when re-modeling the kitchen. The oven pulls about 8.5amps. An electric hob would have been a no-go, so it's bottled gas instead. I have to be wary of not putting the oven on plus the kettle. Annoying, but workable. As I say, coming from the UK, the system in Spain is unusual.

With regard to downgrading to a single phase supply - the answer is 'I don't know.' Theoretically, I would think it would just be a case of disconnecting 2 of the phases in use and putting whatever ICP was necessary on the remaining phase in use. I've personally only ever encountered 3 phase supplies in commercial properties... as an example, the garage I work in has vehicle lifts which use 3 phase motors, many garages will have 3 phase motors on air compressors, and so on. In domestic settings, I have only ever personally come across single phase supplies, but many of these HAVE been with all electric cooker, electric shower, electric storage heating and so on, and doesn't seem to have presented any problems, assuming the supply cable itself coming into the board is of a sufficiently heavy size to cope with the maximum load.

Hopefully there is an electrician reading this thread who will chime in and clarify, as I may be well wide of the mark, being a mechanic to trade!


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## Desiato (Jun 1, 2015)

Thanks for that Steve. I wasn't sure if you were an electrician but you raise some interesting points. My my little experiment with the hob does make the simple division by three inaccurate and throws the situation into confusion. Hopefully there are some sparky's out there who know the score?

Cheers.


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

I don't think it's as simply as dividing by three. I think you can 'share' the power between the phases pretty much as you want/need. So, maybe more to the kitchen and less to the lighting circuits? (for example).

We have single phase 5.75kW supply and run just about everything and anything - this works well for us and we never trip the system by overloading. We have carefully balanced all the circuits and breakers so that no one circuit draws more than any other.


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## SteveScot (Feb 11, 2013)

Yes, Snikpoh that makes sense. Depending on what items are each phase, I suppose the interuptor/s could be tailored to suit. As I say, I don't know... was just throwing out some ideas into the mix!


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## Madliz (Feb 4, 2011)

It's my swimming pool pump that needs the 3-phase, so I am informed. When faced with the added expense of raising the contracted power, since the ICP kept jumping, I looked into changing the pool pump so that I could change to single phase, but was told it wasn't a cost efficient option. I was newly widowed and knew nothing about these things (I don't know that much more now!) so stuck with what I had.


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## Justina (Jan 25, 2013)

*Bills*



Lynn R said:


> A friend of ours who lives with her family in a 3 bed semi in Lincolnshire (not exactly one of the coldest areas of the UK) told me her gas bill for the winter quarter was 600 pounds.
> 
> I don't suppose very many people in the UK would have pools, and the gardens probably don't need so much watering.
> 
> ...


Lucky you with regard to water, cos I paid 80 euros for two months and I am not sloshing it around.
Still waiting for the electricity bill for July and August. I did ask the postman this week and he said that the bills were just being sent out. We had four fans whizzing around almost nonstop for two months, but never used the A/C. I like to feel cool, in the old fashioned sense of the word, but not cold.


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

Justina said:


> Lucky you with regard to water, cos I paid 80 euros for two months and I am not sloshing it around.
> Still waiting for the electricity bill for July and August. I did ask the postman this week and he said that the bills were just being sent out. We had four fans whizzing around almost nonstop for two months, but never used the A/C. I like to feel cool, in the old fashioned sense of the word, but not cold.


I had at least one fan on all night every night for 6 weeks, and sometimes two, and on some days a fan on downstairs during the day as well, but the latest bill was still lower than the one before, so I don't think they can use all that much power.

The water bills do seem to vary an awful lot from area to area, according to what people say. I saw a report that our new local administration were going to put up our bills by 3% but 3% of what I pay is hardly anything, so that doesn't fill me with dread.


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