# Looking for work in Spain.....



## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

I am not saying you wont find work here, but many are going the other way


Bienvenidos a Blighty: Spanish workers flock to UK - The Local


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## gus-lopez (Jan 4, 2010)

cambio said:


> I am not saying you wont find work here, but many are going the other way
> 
> 
> Bienvenidos a Blighty: Spanish workers flock to UK - The Local


Reasonably accurate apart from the numbers. The Dhss said that they had dished out nearly 300k social security numbers to Spaniards & that was in 2012..


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

gus-lopez said:


> Reasonably accurate apart from the numbers. The Dhss said that they had dished out nearly 300k social security numbers to Spaniards & that was in 2012..


I think you have one too many noughts on that figure. It was 30,000 in 2012 and another 45,000 in 2013.


Spanish fastest-growing expat group in UK - The Local


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## AllHeart (Nov 22, 2013)

Lynn R said:


> I think you have one too many noughts on that figure. It was 30,000 in 2012 and another 45,000 in 2013.
> 
> 
> Spanish fastest-growing expat group in UK - The Local


There are still way more people from the UK in Spain than Spaniards in the UK. According to that article, 

_Spain's El Mundo recently reported there 73,659 Spaniards registered as living in the UK at the end of 2012, although the UK's Telegraph newspaper said on Friday the unofficial number could be twice as high.

The British Embassy Madrid estimates, meanwhile, that there are close to 800,000 British people living in Spain._


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

AllHeart said:


> There are still way more people from the UK in Spain than Spaniards in the UK. According to that article,
> 
> _Spain's El Mundo recently reported there 73,659 Spaniards registered as living in the UK at the end of 2012, although the UK's Telegraph newspaper said on Friday the unofficial number could be twice as high.
> 
> The British Embassy Madrid estimates, meanwhile, that there are close to 800,000 British people living in Spain._


I think the demographics of the groups in each country are probably quite different though


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

The point of the post was for those who say they are coming to work and will turn their hands to anything. I was simply highlighting that many Spaniards go to the UK looking for work that does not exist here, and they speak the language


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## AllHeart (Nov 22, 2013)

cambio said:


> The point of the post was for those who say they are coming to work and will turn their hands to anything. I was simply highlighting that many Spaniards go to the UK looking for work that does not exist here, and they speak the language


And the point of my post is that more come from the UK to Spain, than from Spain to the UK. It could be as much as 10 x as many coming from the UK to Spain, than from Spain to the UK.


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## AllHeart (Nov 22, 2013)

Pesky Wesky said:


> I think the demographics of the groups in each country are probably quite different though


Yes, it'd be interesting to know the demographics of the two groups.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

If the head count of Spanish citizens in the UK is based on being registered with the social security there, presumably they are the ones who've got jobs. I know lots of graduates from here who have gone over - many are doing menial jobs while hoping to find something they are qualified for. Some of them come back after a few months when their savings have run out.

But I've never heard of Spanish people retiring to the UK for a better quality of life, the way older Brits retire to Spain. Why on earth would they?


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## sansylivin (Sep 16, 2013)

AllHeart said:


> And the point of my post is that more come from the UK to Spain, than from Spain to the UK. It could be as much as 10 x as many coming from the UK to Spain, than from Spain to the UK.


I knew this would come up soon in one form or another and have been saving it- here is link to BBC´s take on the size of the expat community

Reality Check: How many Brits live in the rest of the EU? - BBC News


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Alcalaina said:


> If the head count of Spanish citizens in the UK is based on being registered with the social security there, presumably they are the ones who've got jobs. I know lots of graduates from here who have gone over - many are doing menial jobs while hoping to find something they are qualified for. Some of them come back after a few months when their savings have run out.
> 
> But I've never heard of Spanish people retiring to the UK for a better quality of life, the way older Brits retire to Spain. Why on earth would they?


It would be based upon padron figures, so probably still not accurate


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

AllHeart said:


> And the point of my post is that more come from the UK to Spain, than from Spain to the UK. It could be as much as 10 x as many coming from the UK to Spain, than from Spain to the UK.


But a large proportion of the Brits in Spain are retired and not looking for work.


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

Alcalaina said:


> If the head count of Spanish citizens in the UK is based on being registered with the social security there, presumably they are the ones who've got jobs. I know lots of graduates from here who have gone over - many are doing menial jobs while hoping to find something they are qualified for. Some of them come back after a few months when their savings have run out.


I know 3 who went over and did get jobs, but still came back after just a couple of months (and are now in work here). All of them will still have the NI numbers they were issued with, so if the figures are just based on the number of NI numbers issued it won't give an accurate picture of the number of Spaniards (or any other nationality) in the UK at any one time.


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## AllHeart (Nov 22, 2013)

sansylivin said:


> I knew this would come up soon in one form or another and have been saving it- here is link to BBC´s take on the size of the expat community
> 
> Reality Check: How many Brits live in the rest of the EU? - BBC News


The article that I quoted said these estimates came from the British Embassy in Madrid. Your article says these estimates came from Corbyn, the Labour Leader.


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## AllHeart (Nov 22, 2013)

baldilocks said:


> But a large proportion of the Brits in Spain are retired and not looking for work.


But some of them are looking for work too.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

AllHeart said:


> But some of them are looking for work too.


so how does that differ from what I said.

Quote: But a large proportion of the Brits in Spain are retired and not looking for work" 

A large proportion - means that there is a smaller proportion who might be looking for work? or does Canadian English have different meanings?


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## AllHeart (Nov 22, 2013)

baldilocks said:


> so how does that differ from what I said.
> 
> Quote: But a large proportion of the Brits in Spain are retired and not looking for work"
> 
> A large proportion - means that there is a smaller proportion who might be looking for work? or does Canadian English have different meanings?


You're such a smart ass.  Does anyone know the proportion of Brits who are retired and those who are working? I'd be interested to know.


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## AllHeart (Nov 22, 2013)

I just found this, although I'm not familiar with this paper, so I don't know how reliable it is. This is from Nov 2014. 

_"According to a recent study by researchers at University College London, the average recent migrant to Britain from within the EU is in his twenties and costs the National Health Service (NHS) less than the average native. No figures exist comparing their demands on the British welfare state with those of Britons on the Spanish system. But such Brits are generally older and less healthy. More than half are over 50, estimates the country’s statistics authority."_

From here: The balance of ailments | The Economist


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

AllHeart said:


> I just found this, although I'm not familiar with this paper, so I don't know how reliable it is. This is from Nov 2014.
> 
> _"According to a recent study by researchers at University College London, the average recent migrant to Britain from within the EU is in his twenties and costs the National Health Service (NHS) less than the average native. No figures exist comparing their demands on the British welfare state with those of Britons on the Spanish system. But such Brits are generally older and less healthy. More than half are over 50, estimates the country’s statistics authority."_
> 
> From here: The balance of ailments | The Economist


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Economist
You will see that it has some longevity but of course that does not guarantee impartiality as _"The Times"_ over 225 years old but now a Murdoch rag demonstrates..


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

AllHeart said:


> I just found this, although I'm not familiar with this paper, so I don't know how reliable it is. This is from Nov 2014.
> 
> _"According to a recent study by researchers at University College London, the average recent migrant to Britain from within the EU is in his twenties and costs the National Health Service (NHS) less than the average native. No figures exist comparing their demands on the British welfare state with those of Britons on the Spanish system. But such Brits are generally older and less healthy. More than half are over 50, estimates the country’s statistics authority."_
> 
> From here: The balance of ailments | The Economist


Of course age does not necessarily equate to illness. I am almost 75 but have never done drugs, have never had much to drink unlike so many of the younger ones. One major factor omitted above is the fact that the UK pays the Spanish Health service for all the British pensioners who are registered on the foreigners' register with a S1 whereas AFAIK there is not a reciprocal arrangement where Spain (and other countries) pay the UK NHS for their nationals living in the UK.


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## AllHeart (Nov 22, 2013)

baldilocks said:


> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Economist
> You will see that it has some longevity but of course that does not guarantee impartiality as _"The Times"_ over 225 years old but now a Murdoch rag demonstrates..


Looking at the cover on that link makes me think I've seen that magazine in Canada. Could it be that it's that far reaching? It seems from the link that it is a very famous magazine, so it could be.


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## AllHeart (Nov 22, 2013)

baldilocks said:


> Of course age does not necessarily equate to illness. I am almost 75 but have never done drugs, have never had much to drink unlike so many of the younger ones.


But the proportion of older people being ill is higher than the proportion of younger people being ill.  



baldilocks said:


> One major factor omitted above is the fact that the UK pays the Spanish Health service for all the British pensioners who are registered on the foreigners' register with a S1 whereas AFAIK there is not a reciprocal arrangement where Spain (and other countries) pay the UK NHS for their nationals living in the UK.


I agree that's a factor that should be taken into consideration. I also don't know if there is such a reciprocal agreement for retirees from Spain or other countries. I wonder if we could find out somehow?


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

AllHeart said:


> And the point of my post is that more come from the UK to Spain, than from Spain to the UK. It could be as much as 10 x as many coming from the UK to Spain, than from Spain to the UK.


You're right...but the crucial difference is that most of us are here post work, not looking for work, which was the OP's point.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

AllHeart said:


> But the proportion of older people being ill is higher than the proportion of younger people being ill.
> 
> 
> 
> I agree that's a factor that should be taken into consideration. I also don't know if there is such a reciprocal agreement for retirees from Spain or other countries. I wonder if we could find out somehow?


I'm sure there is. The S1 is available for issue by all EU countries. 

Whether the UK actually asks for it & charges other countries I don't know, since all residents are entitled to healthcare, & EU citizens can live there. 

The UK does have the facility for EU citizens to register in the same way that Spain does, but it is optional - not a requirement. Or at least that was the case last time I looked into it.

You could try asking on our Britain forum. I dare say someone would know.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Spain and France attract the retirees but very many younger Brits go to other EU countries to work. Loads of younger working Brits in Poland, Germany, Czech Republic....and few Brits retire to these countries.
All the Brits we knew or knew of in Prague were working there. Lots of Brits work in the financial sector in Frankfurt or in media and stuff like that in Berlin and Munich.


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

There is, as Xabiachica says, a reciprocal agreement for treating Spanish visitors to the UK via the EHIC (but from what I read, the NHS is not very efficient at collecting these bills from other countries).

Treating UK tourists in Europe costs five times more than equivalent cost to NHS | Society | The Guardian

As regards residents in the UK from other countries, of course, they are entitled to NHS care just by virtue of being resident in the country, because that's the way the UK's rules work - therefore there is no requirement for governments of other countries to pay for the healthcare of their citizens who are living in the UK. Those who are working, of course (which applies to the vast majority of migrants from the EU - I posted in the Brexit thread the other day a link that showed only 65,000 EU migrants were claiming JSA in the UK) will be paying tax and NI and therefore contributing to the costs of the NHS just as much as any British citizen on a comparable income will be.


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## AllHeart (Nov 22, 2013)

mrypg9 said:


> You're right...but the crucial difference is that most of us are here post work, not looking for work, which was the OP's point.


But the estimates are that over half are over 50, and not everyone over 50 is retired. Let's say for argument's sake that 50% of the UK population in Spain is retired and not looking for work. And let's say 100% of the Spanish population in the UK is looking for work.

By 2012 estimates in that article I quoted:

50% of 800,000= 400,000 UK expats looking for work in Spain.

100% of 73,659 = 73,659 Spanish expats looking for work in the UK. 

That's 5x as many UK expats looking for work in Spain than there are Spanish expats looking for work in the UK.

Let's say as the article suggests that there are twice as many Spanish expats as reported... Then 100% of 2 x 73,659 = 147,313 Spanish expats looking for work in the UK. That's almost 3x as many UK expats looking for work in Spain than there are Spanish expats looking for work in the UK.

In conclusion, by very generous estimations there are 3-5 x as many UK expats looking for work in Spain compared to Spanish expats looking for work in the UK.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

AllHeart said:


> But the estimates are that over half are over 50, and not everyone over 50 is retired. Let's say for argument's sake that 50% of the UK population in Spain is retired and not looking for work. And let's say 100% of the Spanish population in the UK is looking for work.
> 
> By 2012 estimates in that article I quoted:
> 
> ...


I don't think that fits the facts on the ground, though.


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## jp1 (Jun 11, 2011)

AllHeart said:


> But the estimates are that over half are over 50, and not everyone over 50 is retired. Let's say for argument's sake that 50% of the UK population in Spain is retired and not looking for work. And let's say 100% of the Spanish population in the UK is looking for work.
> 
> By 2012 estimates in that article I quoted:
> 
> ...


Back in the real world....

The percentage of British persons resident in Spain that have retired either at state pension age or below and hence are financially self-sufficient will be the vast majority, that means 90+ %.

When you have 400,000 people looking for work in a market place where there are no jobs and you are disadvantaged by native Spanish people taking precedence over you, PLUS you come from a country paying very generous benefits; That 400,000 rapidly reduces to a very small number, if it was every near that figure!


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## AllHeart (Nov 22, 2013)

jp1 said:


> Back in the real world....
> 
> The percentage of British persons resident in Spain that have retired either at state pension age or below and hence are financially self-sufficient will be the vast majority, that means 90+ %.
> 
> When you have 400,000 people looking for work in a market place where there are no jobs and you are disadvantaged by native Spanish people taking precedence over you, PLUS you come from a country paying very generous benefits; That 400,000 rapidly reduces to a very small number, if it was every near that figure!


I quoted my figures accurately. Where do you get your figures from, including your claim that retirees consist of "a vast majority" and "vast majority = 90+%?" You can't just make up figures to suit your argument.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

AllHeart said:


> But the estimates are that over half are over 50, and not everyone over 50 is retired. Let's say for argument's sake that 50% of the UK population in Spain is retired and not looking for work. And let's say 100% of the Spanish population in the UK is looking for work.
> 
> By 2012 estimates in that article I quoted:
> 
> ...


Where do you get the figure that 50% of British expats in Spain are looking for work?

That doesn't fit with the experience I have in my town. Of those coming now, hardly any are looking for work. The vast majority of those who aren't retired have an income from overseas, or they already have an established online business.

Of those I know who have arrived in the last year or so, hardly any came to actively seek work.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Not for nothing is Spain, like Eastbourne, referred to as' God's waiting room'.


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## jp1 (Jun 11, 2011)

AllHeart said:


> I quoted my figures accurately. Where do you get your figures from, including your claim that retirees consist of "a vast majority" and "vast majority = 90+%?" You can't just make up figures to suit your argument.


It is not really a case of having the hard facts published in an official document, it's based on reality.

Virtually all expats that you see will be of mature years and by definition (that means reality) self sufficient.

If they need to derive money from work in Spain to live and survive they simply can't as they have everything going against them (in general I am speaking) Age, language, culture, flexibility etc. So the expats that are left in Spain are those that don't need work.


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## webmarcos (Dec 25, 2012)

If you go to the bigger cities like Barcelona and (especially) Madrid you will find nearly 100% of the expats you meet are working there. A good percentage are in English teaching, but you also find cooks, barstaff, computer programmers, self-employed professionals etc. It's quite rare to find someone who chooses to retire in Madrid, or even in smaller cities like Valladolid or Burgos.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

webmarcos said:


> If you go to the bigger cities like Barcelona and (especially) Madrid you will find nearly 100% of the expats you meet are working there. A good percentage are in English teaching, but you also find cooks, barstaff, computer programmers, self-employed professionals etc. It's quite rare to find someone who chooses to retire in Madrid, or even in smaller cities like Valladolid or Burgos.


As I said, that was the case in thebCzech Republic and Germany.
The vast majority of Brits are to be found on the Costas or inland towns like Coin or the Alhaurins, nearly butnot all retirees.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

> *
> 
> 
> jp1[/B said:
> ...


*No, i can't agree with that as a reference to Spain. The part of Spain where you are, or that you know, maybe.
But as Webmarcos says




[QUOTE=webmarcos;9997258]If you go to the bigger cities like Barcelona and (especially) Madrid you will find nearly 100% of the expats you meet are working there. A good percentage are in English teaching, but you also find cooks, barstaff, computer programmers, self-employed professionals etc. It's quite rare to find someone who chooses to retire in Madrid, or even in smaller cities like Valladolid or Burgos.

Click to expand...

I could add Bilbao to that list of cities.
Long time no see, btw*


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## webmarcos (Dec 25, 2012)

Pesky Wesky said:


> No, i can't agree with that as a reference to _Spain. _The part of Spain where you are, or that you know, maybe.
> But as Webmarcos says
> 
> 
> ...


Good choice of Bilbao. In a great situation (near to coast) but suffers maybe from an industrial reputation? Been there a few times and been impressed by the place.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

webmarcos said:


> Good choice of Bilbao. In a great situation (near to coast) but suffers maybe from an industrial reputation? Been there a few times and been impressed by the place.


It's no longer industrial and as you have probably seen, has gone through a huge and very successful regeneration, mainly along the river including the Guggenheim, the tram and the underground system.
I believe they recently unveiled plans to do up another big chunk of the old warehouses etc by the river going a bit further along towards Las Arenas and El Puente Colgante


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

You can never get "hard facts" about this sort of thing because there are too many variables. 

Because of EU freedom of movement rules, people aren't counted as they leave and enter a country. You have to rely on other factors like registering on the padrón, joining the foreign residents register, or being issued social security numbers. We know that many Brits don't register as resident in Spain, but still live here all or part of the year. Some people work in Spain on short term contracts. Do they all "de-register" when they return to the UK?

The same will apply in the other direction - Spanish people go to the UK to look for work, stay with friends who are there already, some get SS numbers but only stay a short time, some work on the black and don't get SS numbers, some register for JSA while others live off their or their parents' savings.

So figures reported by Corbyn, and the counterclaims in the BBC's "reality check", are both based on guesswork.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

jp1 said:


> It is not really a case of having the hard facts published in an official document, it's based on reality.
> 
> Virtually all expats that you see will be of mature years and by definition (that means reality) self sufficient.
> 
> If they need to derive money from work in Spain to live and survive they simply can't as they have everything going against them (in general I am speaking) Age, language, culture, flexibility etc. So the expats that are left in Spain are those that don't need work.


Not true, You see the retired expats on the Costas and think that's all there is?  As well as large numbers of younger Brits working in cities, referred to by Webmarcos, there are many running small businesses in rural areas, mainly connected with tourism - providing accommodation, guided walking/cycling tours, painting holidays, yoga retreats etc etc. There are also lots of working-age Brits living in Spain but running businesses or working for their employers over the internet. They aren't as visible as the massed grey heads of the Costas, but they do exist, and in quite substantial numbers!


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Alcalaina said:


> . . They aren't as visible as the *massed grey heads* of the Costas, but they do exist, and in quite substantial numbers!


My head is NOT grey...It is kept in full technicolour thanks to the tireless efforts of my wonderful coiffeuse..
The same can be said for all of my 'mature' female friends both Spanish and foreign.

Viva Wella!!


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

mrypg9 said:


> My head is NOT grey...It is kept in full technicolour thanks to the tireless efforts of my wonderful coiffeuse..
> The same can be said for all of my 'mature' female friends both Spanish and foreign.
> 
> Viva Wella!!


I've stopped colouring mine and discovered that there are still very few grey hairs amongst the dark blonde - in fact I was told they just look like highlights. 

But I'd rather be grey than that rather strange shade of pale beige which so many mature English ladies seem to prefer.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Alcalaina said:


> I've stopped colouring mine and discovered that there are still very few grey hairs amongst the dark blonde - in fact I was told they just look like highlights.
> 
> But I'd rather be grey than that rather strange shade of pale beige which so many mature English ladies seem to prefer.




I'm brunette with highlights, more or less as I was in younger days...


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

mrypg9 said:


> I'm brunette with highlights, more or less as I was in younger days...


My coiffeuse keeps mine blonde, but I don't think that's fooling anybody as to how old I am - maybe from the back!


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

If anybody is looking for work in Spain here's a link that gives info about Spain in general and each region. This, along with many other little treasures, is posted in the FAQ's sticky

https://ec.europa.eu/eures/main.jsp?catId=2627&lmi=Y&acro=lmi&lang=en&recordLang=en&parentId=&countryId=ES®ionId=ES0&nuts2Code=%20&nuts3Code=null&mode=text®ionName=National%20Level

Things are improving, but...


> In line with the economy as a whole, the Spanish labour market has experienced some improvement, bucking the trend of job losses prevalent since the beginning of the crisis. This situation is reflected in the Labour Force Survey which indicates a rise in jobs and an increase in the employment rate in the third quarter. Furthermore, the number of unemployed persons decreased by more than 570 000 in a year, although the unemployment rate is still* the second highest *in the European Union.


From the end of the info about Spain in general


> Foreign workers registered with the Social Security system now total slightly over 1.6 million, and their number rose by 4.06 % in 2015 after six consecutive years of decline. The most numerous workers from other EU countries are from Romania, Italy, the UK and Bulgaria, while workers from Morocco, China, Ecuador and Bolivia are the most numerous from outside the EU.
> While there have been improvements, the Spanish labour market is still showing signs of* serious structural problems*: the* high rates of unemployment* among young people and the over-50s, the high percentage of long-term unemployed, the high rate of temporary jobs, the low level of (accredited) employment-oriented training and the high number of discouraged youths who neither work nor study.


And here's some info about Andalucia where so many people on the forum post that they are coming to and will be looking for work


> The latest data available from the Labour Force Survey for the third quarter of 2015 reveal an unemployment rate of 31.73 % (1 281 900 persons unemployed and 2 758 100 persons employed). Malaga and Seville have an unemployment rate below that of Andalusia as a whole (28.97 % and 31.23 % respectively). Cadiz *(37.18 %*) and Jaen (*35.38 %*) are the provinces in the Autonomous Community of Andalusia with the highest rate of unemployment (41.26 %). The activity rate in Andalusia is 58.69 % and the rate for men surpasses the female rate by more than 13.50 percentage points.


Daunting eh?
Let's try The Basque country in the north, where people who are looking for work and a better life style don't seem to know about



> Data from the Labour Force Survey for the third quarter of 2015, found a downward trend in the unemployment rate at * 13.76 %* compared to 15.21 % in the same quarter of last year.


*
**To me it's clear, if a person from the UK wants to come to Spain for a better life style and to get that they need to work,and they need some guarantees, they need to look at Madrid and to the north.*

PS They even tell you what kind of jobs are available. In Madrid it says




> given the current provincial unemployment rate of 16.27 % and with 460 986 people registered unemployed in September 2015, it would be hard to say that any jobs are under-subscribed. These may not have been filled for other reasons such as lack of skilled workers, etc. However, it can be said that some jobs are harder to fill.. This applies to the occupations of Optometrist, Doctors in general, Audiologists and Speech therapists. The demand for these occupations comes principally from the health sector.


Guess what it says for Andalucia...


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Pesky Wesky said:


> If anybody is looking for work in Spain here's a link that gives info about Spain in general and each region. This, along with many other little treasures, is posted in the FAQ's sticky
> 
> https://ec.europa.eu/eures/main.jsp?catId=2627&lmi=Y&acro=lmi&lang=en&recordLang=en&parentId=&countryId=ES®ionId=ES0&nuts2Code=%20&nuts3Code=null&mode=text®ionName=National%20Level
> 
> ...


Thanks for that. However the statistics for Jaén do not show the true picture. Much of the work around here is on the land and therefore subject to (a) the weather and (b) needs of crops. Main crops here are olives (we produce more olives and olive oil than anywhere else in the world) so there are periods of peak work (typically December through to end February); cherries - main activity late spring; almonds - summer (picking) to early autumn (shelling); peaches, apples - mid summer to early autumn; quinces, walnuts, caquis - early autumn to late autumn. Much of the work is family orientated. Out of those periods many go elsewhere to work - typically to France, Switzerland and Germany - apples, grapes, winemaking etc.

In the winter there used to be so much work with the olives that peripatetic workers would come from elsewhere to help but there have been reduced crops and yields of late because of adverse weather conditions and in some cases there has not been sufficient work for locals let alone, outsiders.


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## Helenameva (Aug 15, 2014)

Alcalaina said:


> I've stopped colouring mine and discovered that there are still very few grey hairs amongst the dark blonde - in fact I was told they just look like highlights.
> 
> But I'd rather be grey than that rather strange shade of pale beige which so many mature English ladies seem to prefer.


My mom had that horrible beige colour for years. After her chemotherapy treatment it grew back a lovely salt and pepper colour, she looked much younger.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Alcalaina said:


> I've stopped colouring mine and discovered that there are still very few grey hairs amongst the dark blonde - in fact I was told they just look like highlights.
> 
> But I'd rather be grey than that rather strange shade of pale beige which so many mature English ladies seem to prefer.


Here, most of the Spanish ladies above a certain age seem to go for "rust" colour.


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## Madliz (Feb 4, 2011)

baldilocks said:


> Here, most of the Spanish ladies above a certain age seem to go for "rust" colour.


...Or as the Spanish call it, _color butano_. I don't know which sounds worse.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Madliz said:


> ...Or as the Spanish call it, _color butano_. I don't know which sounds worse.


obviously Repsol not Cepsa although personally I am pretty much the latter.


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## Isobella (Oct 16, 2014)

I would have no objection to help a Brit get their foot on the ladder, just that they seem to charge high prices and have invented their skills when they moved.

Read about a Britain in the Times yesterday who had a lucrative business in Madrid...selling worthless shares to other Brits. He was ordered to repay £11 million. He has to sell his house in Wimbledon, his Spanish villa, yacht and cars. Also jailed for eight and a half years. Apparently a lot of call centres scamming people are set up in Spain as the law makes it easier to operate.


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## AllHeart (Nov 22, 2013)

Go away for a day and there's all this to catch up on! 



xabiachica said:


> Where do you get the figure that 50% of British expats in Spain are looking for work?


I said where I got the figures from:



AllHeart said:


> But the estimates are that over half are over 50, and not everyone over 50 is retired. Let's say for argument's sake that 50% of the UK population in Spain is retired and not looking for work.





xabiachica said:


> That doesn't fit with the experience I have in my town. Of those coming now, hardly any are looking for work. The vast majority of those who aren't retired have an income from overseas, or they already have an established online business.
> 
> Of those I know who have arrived in the last year or so, hardly any came to actively seek work.


But that's your experience in your town, not all of Spain. Like Webmarcos said, you have to consider the demographics of other cities in looking at all of Spain.

I don't know what the figures are in reality, as like I'm just guesstimating. I've scoured the internet and can't find the actual figures. Do you know where we could find out? I'd be interested to know. Perhaps the British Embassy or Consulate?


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## AllHeart (Nov 22, 2013)

jp1 said:


> It is not really a case of having the hard facts published in an official document, it's based on reality.
> 
> Virtually all expats that you see will be of mature years and by definition (that means reality) self sufficient.
> 
> If they need to derive money from work in Spain to live and survive they simply can't as they have everything going against them (in general I am speaking) Age, language, culture, flexibility etc. So the expats that are left in Spain are those that don't need work.


Like I said, you can't just make up statistics.


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## AllHeart (Nov 22, 2013)

Alcalaina said:


> I've stopped colouring mine and discovered that there are still very few grey hairs amongst the dark blonde - in fact I was told they just look like highlights.
> 
> But I'd rather be grey than that rather strange shade of pale beige which so many mature English ladies seem to prefer.


I've got a ton of white hair growing in now after chemo and the rest of my hair is light brown. Before my hair fell out, it was blonde and the white hairs looked like highlight, so I know what you mean. I've been in the sun as much as possible, trying to get that effect back. Tomorrow is supposed to be really sunny and warm, so I'm heading to the beach.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

AllHeart said:


> Go away for a day and there's all this to catch up on!
> 
> 
> 
> I said where I got the figures from:


You said 'let's say 50% are looking for work' or words to that effect. I don't see anything official, or even published, that says that...... except your conjecture.


eta - just saw you said this, too


> I'm just guesstimating.


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## AllHeart (Nov 22, 2013)

xabiachica said:


> You said 'let's say 50% are looking for work' or words to that effect. I don't see anything official, or even published, that says that...... except your conjecture.
> 
> 
> eta - just saw you said this, too


I think I was clear in how I came up with that #. You mean you don't understand where I got the figure that over half of the population is over 50? I'm not sure of your question.

I just figured out in your last post that eta is edit to add, so you're clear on what I meant now.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

AllHeart said:


> I think I was clear in how I came up with that #. You mean you don't understand where I got the figure that over half of the population is over 50? I'm not sure of your question.
> 
> I just figured out in your last post that eta is edit to add, so you're clear on what I meant now.


Exactly - I can't see where you get the figure that half the Brits who move to Spain are looking for work


Your conjecture is just that - conjecture

And therefore no more valid than my experience - possibly even less valid, since you don't have experience of living in an area with a high percentage of expats, as I do, & seeing what is happening. 

Less than 9% of residents in Málaga city are non-Spanish http://gestrisam.malaga.eu/export/sites/default/economia/gestrisam/portal/menu/portada/documentos/Estadxstica_Extranjeros_Mxlaga_2015.pdf

Of course in the bigger cities a higher % foreigners are likely to be moving there for work than in coastal areas - but although you also said


> you can't just make up statistics


That's exactly what you did - you plucked a figure out of the air & extrapolated that figure to come to a conclusion

I doubt there are any official figures anywhere as to how many come to Spain looking for work. Certainly not at the British Embassy. 

There might figures for how many foreigners are actually working & registered autónomo or with a contract - there are for the number registered as unemployed by nationality. Those wouldn't tell you much though. I doubt many would actually rock up & register as unemployed before they even look for work. I don't know anyone who has done so.


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## AllHeart (Nov 22, 2013)

xabiachica said:


> Exactly - I can't see where you get the figure that half the Brits who move to Spain are looking for work
> 
> 
> Your conjecture is just that - conjecture
> ...


But my figures are based on fact. I did not pluck a figure out of the air, but based it on the fact that over 50% of people coming to Spain are over 50, and extrapolated from that a generous average of half of them being retired, as not everyone over 50 is retired. It's the best I think anyone can come up with, and I showed my logic, so it's not just made up. Also the population is not a guess. I didn't base my figures on experience, as you're suggesting.



xabiachica said:


> There might figures for how many foreigners are actually working & registered autónomo or with a contract - there are for the number registered as unemployed by nationality. Those wouldn't tell you much though. I doubt many would actually rock up & register as unemployed before they even look for work. I don't know anyone who has done so.


What I'm looking for is the amount of British retirees in Spain, and I think we can find that out somehow. Then you could assume the rest are either employed or unemployed, or living on savings or black market income. Perhaps the embassy or consulate know that, or at least where I can find out? 

On a related note, I found this, which is really interesting. That there is a large number of Brits claiming benefits outside of the UK, due to being unemployed. 

Revealed: thousands of Britons on benefits across EU | UK news | The Guardian


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

AllHeart said:


> But my figures are based on fact. I did not pluck a figure out of the air, but based it on the fact that over 50% of people coming to Spain are over 50, and extrapolated from that a generous average of half of them being retired, as not everyone over 50 is retired. It's the best I think anyone can come up with, and I showed my logic, so it's not just made up. Also the population is not a guess. I didn't base my figures on experience, as you're suggesting.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I'm not arguing with the figures of how many of what age live here - though I doubt even those are really accurate since so many don't register in any way.

But your guesstimate of how many are looking for work is a guess based on.......... well absolutely nothing really - just a guess.

The DWP in the UK would know how many are here living on pensions - but again, you can't assume that the rest are are either employed in Spain or unemployed. Many (again, the vast majority in my experience - not a guess based on nothing ) of those of working age who come have a private pension or an income from outside Spain , so aren't in the job market, so not 'unemployed'.

Perhaps we are at cross-purposes. To me 'unemployed' suggests looking for & needing to work. You seem to mean 'of working age but not working', which is a different thing entirely. If they aren't looking for work, you can't include them in figures of those coming to work.

Yes, a lot are registered unemployed across Europe - in Spain they will likely have worked beforehand or wouldn't bother registering - as I said in my last post. That article has been posted before as have others similar, which is how I knew that figures are available.


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## AllHeart (Nov 22, 2013)

xabiachica said:


> I'm not arguing with the figures of how many of what age live here - though I doubt even those are really accurate since so many don't register in any way.
> 
> But your guesstimate of how many are looking for work is a guess based on.......... well absolutely nothing really - just a guess.
> 
> ...


Yes, to me, people of retirement age are typically retired. But there are many retired people who are working to supplement their retirement income. So that's why I'm going with my calculations and think they're a good approximation. But of course you don't have to agree with me. 

I see what you mean, though, that it's not possible to find out how many people are actually retired and living in Spain, given private pensions. I'd love to know though. 

It's a challenge living here and getting to learn about my new country when I am unfamiliar with resources that I used to know inside out in Canada. Little by little, I'm learning though.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

I think this document is about as good as you're going to get. It's from the Ministry of Employment and Social Services. The info given is for December 2013. It breaks down the immigration along the lines of country receiving immigrants, country of origin, age and sex. One thing I have been able to verify is that the age of the Andalucian British immigrant is indeed older than the Marid British immigrant as pointed out by several posters.
The average age of the British citizen registered in Madrid is 38.7 whereas in Andalucia it's 52.2. Like I said, be sure about what you're saying. Are you talking about Spain, Madrid, Malaga, Murcia, Mataró or Moralzarzal because the data will be different according to characteristics of the place.
Secretaría General de Inmigración y Emigración. Portal de la Inmigración


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## Horlics (Sep 27, 2011)

AllHeart said:


> Like I said, you can't just make up statistics.


Well you can, but then you'd be talking boll**ks.

Hang on, I used to be a management consultant and made a career of talking bollocks on made-up stats.

That said, free movement, etc. means there are no figures, so this will probably always be a fact free debate based on perceptions (which aren't always reality).

And there aren't any people from Spain in the UK looking for jobs. They'll have found them, the UK has full employment (according to my perception).


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Horlics said:


> Well you can, but then you'd be talking boll**ks.
> 
> Hang on, I used to be a management consultant and made a career of talking bollocks on made-up stats.
> 
> ...


Your perception isn't far off the statistics - last time I looked, which was only a week or so ago, unemployment in the UK was about 5%.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

xabiachica said:


> Your perception isn't far off the statistics - last time I looked, which was only a week or so ago, unemployment in the UK was about 5%.


But we all know that those figures are worthless because it only counts those claiming benefit. This government is doing as much as it can to stop people claiming by encouraging zero hours contracts, forcing the sick and disabled to seek work and if they get a minimal post, they are off the benefits list.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

baldilocks said:


> But we all know that those figures are worthless because it only counts those claiming benefit. This government is doing as much as it can to stop people claiming by encouraging zero hours contracts, forcing the sick and disabled to seek work and if they get a minimal post, they are off the benefits list.


Well if they have a job of some description they aren't unemployed are they? 

We don't know how far off reality they are though. Any more than we know how accurate the figures for Spain or any other country are.

I'd guess that they are probably more accurate in the UK than in Spain because those not working & registered do get financial benefits, so it's in their interests to register. 

In Spain, many don't bother, because they'd get nowt out of it.


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

xabiachica said:


> Well if they have a job of some description they aren't unemployed are they?
> 
> We don't know how far off reality they are though. Any more than we know how accurate the figures for Spain or any other country are.
> 
> ...


And the figures in both countries don't take account of people who are working in the black economy.

For AllHeart's benefit, I know a few British people here who are in their '50s. Most are receiving some kind of early retirement pension, some are doing bits of work "on the black" to supplement that, but none of them are registered as residents so they will not be counted in the figures for British residents here.

My husband and I were "economically inactive" in Spain for almost 10 years before we became officially retired with pensions - we would have been counted in the number of British residents, but were not looking for work.


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

gosh, just a simple post


We are in our 50's we retired early and I receive a small NHS pension plus our savings. Two years in, I am working, not on the black, I pay autonomo ( I was offered work on the black, but it did not sit right with me ) so after we calculate the costs of private health care ( which we budgeted for) and what I earn, the health cover from Spain is priceless. 
The post was to really to highlight to the many posters that say
" we can turn our hands to anything" thereby implying that they need to work, is that there is very little work for Spaniards let alone foreigners.
The posts where people say we need to work/open B&B etc worry me, it shows a lack of understanding of the economy in a country they are hoping to move too


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## sansylivin (Sep 16, 2013)

Pesky Wesky said:


> If anybody is looking for work in Spain here's a link that gives info about Spain in general and each region. This, along with many other little treasures, is posted in the FAQ's sticky
> 
> https://ec.europa.eu/eures/main.jsp?catId=2627&lmi=Y&acro=lmi&lang=en&recordLang=en&parentId=&countryId=ES®ionId=ES0&nuts2Code=%20&nuts3Code=null&mode=text®ionName=National%20Level
> 
> ...


Here in Gipuzkoa we have the lowest level of unemployment in Spain 12.1% and there are plenty of foreigners working here but those are generally (at least) degree level highly skilled jobs- chemistry, engineering, physics are the big expat employers. So not h much for the ´turn a hand´ at anything brigade which would probably face the same (or worse) possibility of finding jobs here as they would need both Spanish and Euskera!


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

sansylivin said:


> Here in Gipuzkoa we have the lowest level of unemployment in Spain 12.1% and there are plenty of foreigners working here but those are generally (at least) degree level highly skilled jobs- chemistry, engineering, physics are the big expat employers. So not h much for the ´turn a hand´ at anything brigade which would probably face the same (or worse) possibility of finding jobs here as they would need both Spanish and Euskera!


Yup,
just what I was saying, although I do know very qualified people, young and old who've found it hard getting work in the area, well, Bizkaia


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