# Teaching English in Spain



## Pesky Wesky

I'm going to post some of my ideas on teaching English on Spain and hopefully the other forum members who are teachers will chip in.
First post

Do you need qualifications?
If you’re not qualified you’ll probably get something somewhere, but it would probably be on an informal basis and very badly paid – not enough to make a living on. It would be in your interest to get the correct qualifaction so that you can get a job in a "good" school, get good experience and can opt for promotion when the time comes. Most academies and schools wouldn’t dream of taking on unqualified staff. Those who do are bound to be a bit dodgy and would steer clear of them.
I would also say that as a matter of professionalism you should know something about what you’re doing and being a native speaker doesn’t mean you know enough about your language to teach it. For example if somebody is dividing up what to take to a party you can say "Put me down for the beer and crisps" So how do you explain "We had to have our cat put down"??


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## Pesky Wesky

What qualifications do I need?
You need a CELTA course minimum. Here is a link to International House who have schools all over the world and training programmes in many of them. You don’t have to do it with them but they have a good name and could probably help place you in a school. 
http://www.ihlondon.com/celta-23/
I would google CELTA London or what ever city you want and look for the best price. There are quite a few places in madrid that have courses and probably other Spanish cities too.
There is also a young learners course for those who want to teach children. See this British Council link
Teaching Young Learners - Courses & Qualifications | Teaching English | British Council | BBC

I did my course in the Bell Language school in Norwich a million years ago, although it looks like they don’t do it in Norwich any more

CELTA courses - Certificate in English Language Teaching to Adults


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## Pesky Wesky

Are there any jobs?
You will see from other threads that the employment situation is NOT good at the moment. There are loads of qualified teachers here, but there are still jobs. It's well worth sending your CV to schools or taking it in person if you come over. Try getting in touch with Richard Harrison before you come richardinmadrid ATgmailDOTcom. He recruits for schools all over Spain and will be able to give you advice. This website has good quality jobs in Spain and will give you an idea of what's out there Welcome - TEFL.com .
Also try the Times Educational Supplement, the Guardian (on Thursdays I think or online). I am self employed and live in Madrid so I advertise on English Teachers - Madrid
There are also ads from academies and a few for other parts of Spain


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## Tallulah

:clap2: Great advice PW. Let's hope the powers that be turn this into a sticky so it can remain up there as a useful point of reference to others. Thanks.


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## jojo

The international school that my children go to only employ fully qualified, tip top teaching staff!! And rightly so, us parents are paying a lot of money for our children to be taught by the best! I know that this particular school conducts all its advertising and interviews in the UK, London, apparently, most do! They do sometimes put vacancies on their web site, so its always worth looking on websites to see. And I guess coming over and visiting is always something that could pay off, but only if you´re here at the right moment! Blanket e-mailing them all is also a good idea, nowt to lose. BUT, for international schools you MUST be a proper fully qualified teacher, not TEFL

Jo xx


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## Pesky Wesky

jojo said:


> The international school that my children go to only employ fully qualified, tip top teaching staff!! And rightly so, us parents are paying a lot of money for our children to be taught by the best! ...BUT, for international schools you MUST be a proper fully qualified teacher, not TEFL
> 
> Jo xx


Good point Jo.
(although I would point out that a TEFLer or CELTA er nowadays is also a "proper fully qualified teacher", just in a different way)


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## jojo

Pesky Wesky said:


> Good point Jo.
> (although I would point out that a TEFLer or CELTA er nowadays is also a "proper fully qualified teacher", just in a different way)



I know PW, I guess I´m thinking of people like my nephew who does TEFL in China at the mo and he´s as qualified as I am, well he did a 6 week course?!!! 

Our schoolfees are 200€ a week per child. I dont think the parents of the spanish children there would appreciate the skills of my said nephew teaching their babies at those prices!! 

Jo xxx


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## grahunt

*Classroom Assistant Roles in Primary are Available*



jojo said:


> I know PW, I guess I´m thinking of people like my nephew who does TEFL in China at the mo and he´s as qualified as I am, well he did a 6 week course?!!!
> 
> Our schoolfees are 200€ a week per child. I dont think the parents of the spanish children there would appreciate the skills of my said nephew teaching their babies at those prices!!
> 
> Jo xxx


And they can be got with basic qualifications, eg married to a teacher etc...  and speaking English. However they only pay around 800-1100 Euros pcm
As JoJo says international schools only employ fully qualified teachers. Anybody who wants to become a fully qualified teacher and is in Spain can now do so by the way. PM me for details as i don't think i can put a link up


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## Caz.I

grahunt said:


> And they can be got with basic qualifications, eg married to a teacher etc...  and speaking English. However they only pay around 800-1100 Euros pcm
> As JoJo says international schools only employ fully qualified teachers. Anybody who wants to become a fully qualified teacher and is in Spain can now do so by the way. PM me for details as i don't think i can put a link up


BTW, Grahunt, I have PM’d you about the Classroom Assistant jobs in Spain. Did you mean the British Council/MEC scheme in bilingual state schools? I thought you had to have Qualified Teacher status beforehand to do that. (QT status in schools that is, not FE.)
Anyone interested can Google British Council Bilingual Project.

QUALIFICATIONS
CELTA stands for Certificate in English Language Teaching to Adults and so therefore it is not connected to teaching the curriculum in primary and secondary schools so doesn’t enable you to teach in international schools. Plus, I would imagine that Qualified Teachers would have to be qualified to teach the British curriculum (rather than those of other English speaking countries).

But although it is not enough to teach in schools, language schools and academies usually accept it to teach children and adults, although as Pesky said, you can also do the Young Learners course run by International House. A lot of language schools also want you to have a degree and some experience. Of course, it would also be a bonus to have the DELTA, as Simon said. (Although I had understood that you had to have 5 years’ teaching experience, or 5 years since you passed the CELTA, before you could do it. Or has this changed?) There is also the Trinity ESOL certificate, but I don’t know how well it is accepted here, even though some private Spanish schools do the Trinity English exams.

I have heard that some of the CELTA courses vary in standards too. Most people, I think, do the 4 or 6 week intensive course and I think it depends who runs it. I have even heard of weekend TEFL courses (though not CELTA ones). I did the CELTA at my local further education college over 6 months, and it involved a lot of coursework, classroom observations, teaching practice and had rigorous standards (so much so that at the teaching feedback sessions every week someone usually burst into tears!).

TEACHING WITHOUT TEACHING QUALIFICATIONS
On the other hand, American graduates, can, apparently, teach conversational English in state schools for up to a year even if they don’t have any teaching qualifications. In Andalucia, for example, despite having a high British population, they employ them in the local schools and pay a monthly stipend of about 600 euros. They can do this directly, I think, through the Ministry of Education and Science (MEC in Spanish) or through an organisation called CIEE (?) which I have heard charges a lot of money for the privilege.

Of course, state schools do have extra curricular activities in which they teach English, and you don’t need to be a qualified teacher, and they do advertise such jobs on various websites (Profesores.com) but they say that they prefer applicants to be able to teach other activities like Games, Crafts, IT etc since there are so few hours a week available for just one subject. So this means, in effect, you would have to be truly bilingual. However, in my son’s school, usually, each teacher teaches one specific subject so it may be worth investigating (though I never got anywhere). Also, I have heard that the enchufe (network of who you know) system may be at work there.

TEACHING IN LANGUAGE SCHOOLS
If you teach in language schools or academies, you will probably have to teach between 4pm – 9 or 10pm, so not really good if you have young children. It may be different in bigger schools or if you do in-company classes but usually, adults want classes after work and children after school. IMO, adults are less reliable because they have other commitments, and children are more reliable, because they have no choice in going!

I can imagine it may be possible to be paid well in cities like Madrid and Barcelona but from experience and what I have seen advertised it can be anything from as low as 900 euros – 1500 euros. (averaging around 1000-1200 or hourly rate of 10-15 euros – usually at lower end) so it may be a lot lower than what you are used to.

There are also jobs teaching English online and you can do a course to teach English online through International House too now. Outside of big cities, it is essential to also have a car if you are teaching in-company classes and you can earn more money teaching Business English as far as I know. 

In the 6 years I have been here, I have found work through looking on the internet, some through English language newspapers, and some offers just by visiting language schools on spec, although private classes have mostly come through word of mouth. But I have to say, stable, well-paid, secure full-time jobs are rare. If you find any, let me know!

Generally, I think the more qualifications and experience you have (and Spanish language skills), the better.


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## Pesky Wesky

Caz.I said:


> I have heard that some of the CELTA courses vary in standards too. Most people, I think, do the 4 or 6 week intensive course I did the CELTA at my local further education college over 6 months, and it involved a lot of coursework, classroom observations, teaching practice and had rigorous standards (so much so that at the teaching feedback sessions every week someone usually burst into tears!).
> 
> 
> TEACHING IN LANGUAGE SCHOOLS
> If you teach in language schools or academies, you will probably have to teach between 4pm – 9 or 10pm, IMO, adults are less reliable because they have other commitments, and children are more reliable, because they have no choice in going! Outside of big cities, it is essential to also have a car if you are teaching in-company classes and you can earn more money teaching Business English as far as I know.
> 
> In the 6 years I have been here, I have found work through looking on the internet, some through English language newspapers, and some offers just by visiting language schools on spec, although private classes have mostly come through word of mouth. But I have to say, stable, well-paid, secure full-time jobs are rare. If you find any, let me know!
> 
> Generally, I think the more qualifications and experience you have (and Spanish language skills), the better.


So much info, I hope it's appreciated when the time comes round. Give the woman some points please. (I tried, but can't work out the system!)


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## Pesky Wesky

Originally Posted by Caz.I View Post

*I have heard that some of the CELTA courses vary in standards too. Most people, I think, do the 4 or 6 week intensive course I did the CELTA at my local further education college over 6 months, and it involved a lot of coursework, classroom observations, teaching practice and had rigorous standards (so much so that at the teaching feedback sessions every week someone usually burst into tears!).
*

Yes, the course is short and intensive. Some people only do this, but many people have come to this in a round about way (like myself!) and have a BEd, or PGCE or something, and many people have business experience which is hugely useful if wanting to teach in companies
*
TEACHING IN LANGUAGE SCHOOLS
If you teach in language schools or academies, you will probably have to teach between 4pm – 9 or 10pm, IMO, adults are less reliable because they have other commitments, and children are more reliable, because they have no choice in going! Outside of big cities, it is essential to also have a car if you are teaching in-company classes and you can earn more money teaching Business English as far as I know.*

Yes, timetables are a problem. I teach in companies and typically teach 8:00 - 9:30 13:30 - 16:30 and after 18:00. In the gaps I may be able to have a phone class or do a translation. Sometimes there are all day intensives or all afternoon or something. But it is better paid - 25 - 35 euros the hour (self employed). However, I would say as well that it's normally the more experienced teachers who are employed in this kind of work. I have to use the car because there is not public transport to any of the office blocks that I work in, but I don't live in the city.

*In the 6 years I have been here, I have found work through looking on the internet, some through English language newspapers, and some offers just by visiting language schools on spec, although private classes have mostly come through word of mouth. But I have to say, stable, well-paid, secure full-time jobs are rare. If you find any, let me know!*

I have been in the same companies 5 yrs, 4 years and 1 yr. With phone classes I've had the same people 3yrs, 2yrs and 1 yr

*Generally, I think the more qualifications and experience you have (and Spanish language skills), the better.*

Yes, especially for company classes especially if you're self employed you have to talk directly to people in HR who may or may not speak English


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## SteveHall

Much great information - thanks to all who have added these factual posts. I have taught and it is absolutely my least favourite occupation but fortunately for us all there are those who love what they do and are good at it. I take my hat off to you all.


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## sharont000

I would to thank all for info provided too. I am very interested in moving to Spain in couple of years time. I am currently qualifying to be a primary school teacher and also have hons degree in Business management. I am a single mother of 3 children however so there are many concerns regarding a move. My parents will however be moving before me so it will help if they move somewhere close to good working areas for me! Bit selfish perhaps for me but they will enjoy the children lol.

I will continue to read your posts for info and accept any advice you are willing to give me.

Many thanks

Sharon


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## Pesky Wesky

sharont000 said:


> I would to thank all for info provided too. I am very interested in moving to Spain in couple of years time. I am currently qualifying to be a primary school teacher and also have hons degree in Business management. I am a single mother of 3 children however so there are many concerns regarding a move. My parents will however be moving before me so it will help if they move somewhere close to good working areas for me! Bit selfish perhaps for me but they will enjoy the children lol.
> 
> I will continue to read your posts for info and accept any advice you are willing to give me.
> 
> Many thanks
> 
> Sharon


WOW!:jaw:
You've got a lot on your plate. Single mum, 3 kids and studying!!
At least you're not afraid of hard work!
Before your move, as you say it'll be in a coulpe of years, try to get some Spanish under your belt. The kids, depending on their ages will probably adapt to the language far easier than you


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## grahunt

The best jobs in the international schools are in Primary as the staff turnover is a lot less and you can make very good friendships. Also the children being young will settle down better probably.
However remember that wages in most areas are around 1500-1700 Euros pcm for primary so make sure that your rental, purchase of property doesn't cost more than 500 pcm because if it does you would struggle to get to the end of the month unless you are seriously good at economising.
Spanish is not too important at primary level in the international schools because the teaching is all in English. However having Spanish can be an obvious advantage in so many other ways


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## jojo

grahunt said:


> The best jobs in the international schools are in Primary as the staff turnover is a lot less and you can make very good friendships. Also the children being young will settle down better probably.
> However remember that wages in most areas are around 1500-1700 Euros pcm for primary so make sure that your rental, purchase of property doesn't cost more than 500 pcm because if it does you would struggle to get to the end of the month unless you are seriously good at economising.
> Spanish is not too important at primary level in the international schools because the teaching is all in English. However having Spanish can be an obvious advantage in so many other ways



It seems around our way the international schools are all three in one. Nursery, Primary and secondary. In fact my kids school also has a "6th form". 

Jo xxx


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## sharont000

Pesky Wesky said:


> WOW!:jaw:
> You've got a lot on your plate. Single mum, 3 kids and studying!!
> At least you're not afraid of hard work!
> Before your move, as you say it'll be in a coulpe of years, try to get some Spanish under your belt. The kids, depending on their ages will probably adapt to the language far easier than you


Cheers for that! yeah doing spanish too at night class but it will take a while lol

Sharon x


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## grahunt

*The same here Jojo*



jojo said:


> It seems around our way the international schools are all three in one. Nursery, Primary and secondary. In fact my kids school also has a "6th form".
> 
> Jo xxx


But the turnover of staff is in secondary more than anywhere else.


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## Pesky Wesky

grahunt said:


> But the turnover of staff is in secondary more than anywhere else.


I wonder why?????!!!!!


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## jojo

Pesky Wesky said:


> I wonder why?????!!!!!



As the parent of two secondary school kids and three more now grown up kids.... its cos they're little *******s!!!!!!!!


Seriously tho I was wondering the same, surely secondary teachers know what they're letting themselves in for???


Jo xxxx


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## Pesky Wesky

*Secondary school education*



jojo said:


> As the parent of two secondary school kids and three more now grown up kids.... its cos they're little *******s!!!!!!!!
> 
> 
> Seriously tho I was wondering the same, surely secondary teachers know what they're letting themselves in for???
> 
> 
> Jo xxxx


But can anybody really prepare themselves for teens as they are today?

As I'm sure you know, private schools are no guarantee against "unpleasant happenings". I've heard of plenty of bullying and drugs going on there.
My daughter goes to the local secondary school. When she started 3 years ago I was literally having sleepless nights worrying about what was going to happen to her. It's a school where there are a high proportion of immigrants (ourselves included of course) and don't forget there have been problems with Latin kings in Madrid and a South American boy was stabbed to death in the town where I live. The catchment area includes the nicest area and the worst area of town etc etc.
Well, she has made the nicest friends from all parts of the world. The teachers in general (with two exceptions that stand out like sore thumbs) have been great and we are very happy with our choice. True the standard is not very high, but is it in England?
Other people in our family (Spanish) have sent their children to bilingual American and French schools, but purely for the *language* skills. They are only too ready to admit that the facilities are nothing special.
Before anybody comes down on me for that last comment it's not my opinion as I don't know the schools, it's the Spanish peoples' opinion! 
This should be on another thread about education in Spain, shouldn't it??


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## jojo

When we lived in the UK, my son went to a massive state high school in our town. He hated it, he would sob at night, lock himself in the bathroom and fiegn illness soas not to go. He was one of 31 kids and most of those kids were naughty and the teacher seemed pretty much powerless to do anything about it! In fact, the teacher once said to me that he was glad my son was in his class cos he was no trouble and could be left quietly reading or something while the teacher could get on with trying to disapline the trouble makers who would run rings around him and cause chaos!! 

When we moved to Spain, we did alot of searching and investigating, we chose the international school in Cartama. The transformation in my son is overwhelming, he's confident, bright, hard working and very clever. There are 13 kids in his class 5 brits and the rest are "others" (lol)

The difference between these two schools, isnt so much the fact that ones private and the other isnt. Its because the private is smaller and IMO more importantly, they are very strict! They have the cane and there is a very rigid and serious "zero tolerance" policy!! Which means the pupils arent ever side tracked by the disruptive behavior of the few. its nipped in the bud! There are one of two kids there who have tried to be disruptive, but they have the threat of the cane and behave! Simple

jo xx


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## Pesky Wesky

*secondary schools*



jojo said:


> When we lived in the UK, my son went to a massive state high school in our town. He hated it, he would sob at night, lock himself in the bathroom and fiegn illness soas not to go. He was one of 31 kids and most of those kids were naughty and the teacher seemed pretty much powerless to do anything about it! In fact, the teacher once said to me that he was glad my son was in his class cos he was no trouble and could be left quietly reading or something while the teacher could get on with trying to disapline the trouble makers who would run rings around him and cause chaos!!
> 
> When we moved to Spain, we did alot of searching and investigating, we chose the international school in Cartama. The transformation in my son is overwhelming, he's confident, bright, hard working and very clever. There are 13 kids in his class 5 brits and the rest are "others" (lol)
> 
> The difference between these two schools, isnt so much the fact that ones private and the other isnt. Its because the private is smaller and IMO more importantly, they are very strict! They have the cane and there is a very rigid and serious "zero tolerance" policy!! Which means the pupils arent ever side tracked by the disruptive behavior of the few. its nipped in the bud! There are one of two kids there who have tried to be disruptive, but they have the threat of the cane and behave! Simple
> 
> jo xx


I'm not sure what to think about the cane. I am pretty sure it's just as illegal here as it is in England so I hope they never use it.
But the important thing is to have a happy child. You must have all suffered along with your son when he was going through that.
I agree that the size of the school seems to influence. My daughter's school only has 300+ students I think


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## jojo

Pesky Wesky said:


> I'm not sure what to think about the cane. I am pretty sure it's just as illegal here as it is in England so I hope they never use it.
> But the important thing is to have a happy child. You must have all suffered along with your son when he was going through that.
> I agree that the size of the school seems to influence. My daughter's school only has 300+ students I think


I was wondering about the legalities of it here too!? However, my kids are in favour of it (i am too) and they like the fact that the school is strict cos they dont wanna be surrounded by disruptive kids!

jo xxx


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## Caz.I

jojo said:


> I was wondering about the legalities of it here too!? However, my kids are in favour of it (i am too) and they like the fact that the school is strict cos they dont wanna be surrounded by disruptive kids!
> 
> jo xxx


Ahem. Changing the subject a bit (interesting though it is) ie. :focus: I have some good news, for once! :clap2: :clap2: :clap2:

I mentioned earlier on this this thread about American graduates giving conversation classes in state schools here, and previously it stated that it was only for students from the United States and Canada (much to my annoyance ). But have since discovered that UK and Irish graduates, and those who are undergraduates and completed 2 years of their course, can also participate in this scheme. As can graduates from Australia and various other countries.
The British ones can apply direct via the British Council programme British Council Language Assistants
and others can go to the Spanish Education dept website Portada > Actividad internacional > Convocatorias de trabajo y formación > Convocatorias para extranjeros - Ministerio de Educación.
Perhaps Brits in Spain can apply direct too, not sure, but there is a phoneline.

I should say, though, that you have to have quite a high standard of Spanish for these posts, but there is something called a Comenius Assistant in which you dont. (It explains more on the British Council site.)

I think, though that it might be too late for applications for this year, but for anyone thinking about coming out in the next year, or for a gap year, it might be a good option. 

Will update you if I found out more info about these schemes.

Caz.
xx


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## Pesky Wesky

Caz.I said:


> Ahem. Changing the subject a bit (interesting though it is) ie. :focus: I have some good news, for once! :clap2: :clap2: :clap2:
> 
> I mentioned earlier on this this thread about American graduates giving conversation classes in state schools here, and previously it stated that it was only for students from the United States and Canada (much to my annoyance ). But have since discovered that UK and Irish graduates, and those who are undergraduates and completed 2 years of their course, can also participate in this scheme. As can graduates from Australia and various other countries.
> 
> Caz.
> xx


Thanks for putting us back on the straight and narrow Caz. I and many thanks for the information, which is really useful!!


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## xabiaxica

Caz.I said:


> Ahem. Changing the subject a bit (interesting though it is) ie. :focus: I have some good news, for once! :clap2: :clap2: :clap2:
> 
> I mentioned earlier on this this thread about American graduates giving conversation classes in state schools here, and previously it stated that it was only for students from the United States and Canada (much to my annoyance ). But have since discovered that UK and Irish graduates, and those who are undergraduates and completed 2 years of their course, can also participate in this scheme. As can graduates from Australia and various other countries.
> The British ones can apply direct via the British Council programme British Council Language Assistants
> and others can go to the Spanish Education dept website Portada > Actividad internacional > Convocatorias de trabajo y formación > Convocatorias para extranjeros - Ministerio de Educación.
> Perhaps Brits in Spain can apply direct too, not sure, but there is a phoneline.
> 
> I should say, though, that you have to have quite a high standard of Spanish for these posts, but there is something called a Comenius Assistant in which you dont. (It explains more on the British Council site.)
> 
> I think, though that it might be too late for applications for this year, but for anyone thinking about coming out in the next year, or for a gap year, it might be a good option.
> 
> Will update you if I found out more info about these schemes.
> 
> Caz.
> xx


and there's the rub as far as state schools are concerened


and around here you have to pass a test in valenciano, too!


you'd think that they'd want someone fluent in english really wouldn't you?

there was an argentinian lady teaching english at one of our local primary schools - and if you've ever heard the argentinian accent you'll understand why I feel 

I used to teach english to a couple of argentinians - their accent in spanish really threw me for a while - & the way they were used to moving (or not!) their mouths when they speak gave them huge problems with pronunciation!


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## Tallulah

OK, so I was just wondering as I haven't yet had the chance to listen to that interview that Graham Hunt posted earlier in the week on state/international schools and the correct ages to bring over children in order to NOT disrupt their education....can anyone tell me is it area specific? I recall having a conversation - oooh, ages ago with Steve I think (he may correct me) - whereby it was mainly in a large expat area in the South where the education of expat children were suffering - mainly because of the fact that the school classes were mainly made up of expats. As you know, we brought our's over four years ago - twins then aged 7 and the youngest aged 6 and put them straight into a state school. Of course, it was frustrating that there were no OFSTED type reports, but coming to an area where we have a lot of family whose children went through this particular school, it was great "word of mouth" and we've managed to develop a good communication with the director and teachers. 

I think our children definitely benefitted from reduced class sizes (17-20 max), predominantly Spanish population and also the additional teacher support in the first few months in languages (Castellano & Gallego). Also the fact that my husband went to the UK at aged 8 not speaking a word of English, yet is now more English than Spanish when speaking to him (the switch between the languages and adaptability of integrating youngsters below a certain age is incredible) was most reassuring for someone contemplating that move.

I'll try and have a listen later to that interview.


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## xabiaxica

generally opinion is that over the age of say, 10, the ability to 'absorb' a language decreases dramatically - so much older than that & the kids have a real problem picking it up quickly

my two were 5 & 8 (nearly 9) when they went into spanish state school - we wasted a year & a lot of money putting them into International for the first year we were here

despite being in a high ex-pat area - not just brits - they have both picked up the languages (castellano & valenciano) so well that even spanish people think they are spanish when they hear them speak - (if they can see them it's a bit of a giveaway since they are both tall blue-eyed blondes!)

however not all kids manage so well - a classmate of my older girl - now 13 - has been held back this year & told to take spanish lessons! She has been in the spanish system a year longer than my girls!


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## Tallulah

Hmmm...but then you speak Spanish and teach - so perhaps that's where parental support comes into its fore???


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## xabiaxica

Tallulah said:


> Hmmm...but then you speak Spanish and teach - so perhaps that's where parental support comes into its fore???


true - but we don't speak spanish much at home - usually only if the kids are ignoring me - if I yell bajala! or calla! I get more response!

I suppose it does help that I have been able to help with homework - though not really in valenciano

I didn't speak any spanish when we first arrived though & in fact dd1's classmate's mum was in the same group as me when I first started studying myself!


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## Tallulah

xabiachica said:


> true - but we don't speak spanish much at home - usually only if the kids are ignoring me - if I yell bajala! or calla! I get more response!
> 
> I suppose it does help that I have been able to help with homework - though not really in valenciano
> 
> I didn't speak any spanish when we first arrived though & in fact dd1's classmate's mum was in the same group as me when I first started studying myself!


Just an aside - have you found the kids' personality change when they speak in English/Spanish?!?! We've found that when they communicate in Spanish (it's a stereotype I know, but it seems to be true!) that a) they swear a LOT b) they are much, much louder & c) they gesticulate so much more!!


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## xabiaxica

Tallulah said:


> Just an aside - have you found the kids' personality change when they speak in English/Spanish?!?! We've found that when they communicate in Spanish (it's a stereotype I know, but it seems to be true!) that a) they swear a LOT b) they are much, much louder & c) they gesticulate so much more!!


absolutely!!!


trouble is they do it in english too!!

I have no idea if they would have been like this if we'd stayed in the UK or the US, but I suspect not!

dd1 is so spanish it's scary!


I dread to to think how they'd settle in if we had to go back to the UK



I think we might be told to get :focus: in a min


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## MissG

Hi everyone,

I have been reading through this thred an I have found it very interesting. I am about to complete a Masters degree in teaching English to speakers of another language next month. I have been applying left right and centre to many language shcools in Spain (mainly using tefl dot com) and I've not had much luck. I even visited Spain last month with my C.V. in hand and went knocking on doors, but again very little interest.

I really want to teach in Spain but most money I have been offered so far is 900Euro per month before tax which I could not live off. I am now at my wits end and if anyone could give me any advice I'd really appreciate it.

Thank you


----------



## Tallulah

MissG said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> I have been reading through this thred an I have found it very interesting. I am about to complete a Masters degree in teaching English to speakers of another language next month. I have been applying left right and centre to many language shcools in Spain (mainly using tefl dot com) and I've not had much luck. I even visited Spain last month with my C.V. in hand and went knocking on doors, but again very little interest.
> 
> I really want to teach in Spain but most money I have been offered so far is 900Euro per month before tax which I could not live off. I am now at my wits end and if anyone could give me any advice I'd really appreciate it.
> 
> Thank you


Hi MissG,

Pesky Wesky had a link for a chap somewhere (Richard Harris???) who employs teaching staff in Spain - also another chap (Graham Hunt??) had a link also for employing teaching staff. Hopefully they'll join in this thread later to correct me and send you in the right direction!

Best of luck!


----------



## MissG

Hi Tallulah,

Thanks for replying. I'll try and contact those guys this week sometime. I've got my heart set on living and teaching in Spain so fingers crossed! 




Tallulah said:


> Hi MissG,
> 
> 
> 
> Pesky Wesky had a link for a chap somewhere (Richard Harris???) who employs teaching staff in Spain - also another chap (Graham Hunt??) had a link also for employing teaching staff. Hopefully they'll join in this thread later to correct me and send you in the right direction!
> 
> Best of luck!


----------



## Tallulah

MissG said:


> Hi Tallulah,
> 
> Thanks for replying. I'll try and contact those guys this week sometime. I've got my heart set on living and teaching in Spain so fingers crossed!


By the way, are you sure that 900 euros was BEFORE tax?? I ask, because it's not uncommon to be given a figure, but that is what you get to take home. That's what employers mean here when they say employing staff permanently is very expensive. Usually the employer quotes that 900 euros, for example, and on top of the employer then has to pay national insurance and the retention of tax, the result of which leaves the said 900 euros. 

I asked a friend recently what he pays his staff and he said even the less qualified get around 1000 euros per month, but it costs him around 200 euros per month before he pays their taxes and SS contributions (his SS band for the type of business is rather high). But I did clear with him is that the 1000 euros is what the employee takes home.

Just a thought then, in case it was 900 euros take home and not gross.


----------



## Pesky Wesky

*teaching English to children*

Teaching children.
As far as I can make out, if you want to teach children in Spain you can do it in various ways. The big minus point with teaching children seems to be the money, or rather lack of it. And possibly the children themselves!! 
Private classes
The most accessible. Lots of times a neighbour, or somebody in your local bar will say “You’re English, aren’t you? Could you teach María?” This has its pros and cons like everything else. Normally this situation arises because Mª is failing English at (secondary) school and you have to pass your exams here. So you can teach Mª, but you have to teach what she needs to pass the exam, not what you think she needs. Then, if she doesn’t make an effort (after all you can’t learn the stuff for her) she still won’t pass the exam and you could be in an awkward postion with the parents.
However, it could be a really bright student who wants to progress on his/ her own. Also it could be very near to your house, or they can even come to your house.
Timetable: after school or weekends. If you need extra money, Saturday mornings are popular.
Academies
Many academies base their offer around kids and their needs which can be 
•	to pass school exams (every school is different, no national exam, but text books follow more or less the same pattern) By far the most demanded
•	to pass other exams like KET, PET, Trinity
•	To have fun(!?!)
•	School holiday activities
Usually kids are not taught English in English if you get what I mean and so you might be asked to have a certain level of Spanish. You will probably asked to write reports in Spanish and may have to talk to parents.
Schools
At the moment this is almost always teaching in a British or international private school. However there is a government scheme to make some, most, all?? schools bilingual. The government has teamed up with the British Council to train and possibly find teachers. As you can see, this is not my field and I don’t know so much about it. There are posts about it on this thread and Jo, among others, can help people out with info
:blah::blah::blah:


----------



## Pesky Wesky

MissG said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> I have been reading through this thred an I have found it very interesting. I am about to complete a Masters degree in teaching English to speakers of another language next month. I have been applying left right and centre to many language shcools in Spain (mainly using tefl dot com) and I've not had much luck. I even visited Spain last month with my C.V. in hand and went knocking on doors, but again very little interest.
> 
> I really want to teach in Spain but most money I have been offered so far is 900Euro per month before tax which I could not live off. I am now at my wits end and if anyone could give me any advice I'd really appreciate it.
> 
> Thank you


Thanks for posting. Really interesting to hear about your experience. Perhaps you're over qualified??
Will get back to you later. Got to do URGENT cleaning!!


----------



## Caz.I

MissG said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> I have been reading through this thred an I have found it very interesting. I am about to complete a Masters degree in teaching English to speakers of another language next month. I have been applying left right and centre to many language shcools in Spain (mainly using tefl dot com) and I've not had much luck. I even visited Spain last month with my C.V. in hand and went knocking on doors, but again very little interest.
> 
> I really want to teach in Spain but most money I have been offered so far is 900Euro per month before tax which I could not live off. I am now at my wits end and if anyone could give me any advice I'd really appreciate it.
> 
> Thank you


Hi Miss G,
900 months sounds terrible IMO. But, as Talullah said, normally that would be after tax. I dont know if you are looking at any places in particular, but maybe you would be better looking in the big cities, at the bigger language schools. Personally, I have found that language schools in general dont usually pay very well. Although I have been employed on an hourly rate between 9-12 euros/hour, and 15 through a training agency. Have you looked at the International House website though, they had a vacancy in Huelva recently, although dont think they pay a fortune either. 
Maybe you would be better going the route of the British Council scheme, they seem to pay a decent wage. Either that or teaching Business English in the cities.
It isnt easy here to get work, even though you are clearly more qualified than most. Also try profesores.com which usually has quite a few vacancies.
At the moment, I am also looking for work, so I know what it's like.
Good luck.
Caz.


----------



## grahunt

*British Council or ...*



Caz.I said:


> Hi Miss G,
> 900 months sounds terrible IMO. But, as Talullah said, normally that would be after tax. I dont know if you are looking at any places in particular, but maybe you would be better looking in the big cities, at the bigger language schools. Personally, I have found that language schools in general dont usually pay very well. Although I have been employed on an hourly rate between 9-12 euros/hour, and 15 through a training agency. Have you looked at the International House website though, they had a vacancy in Huelva recently, although dont think they pay a fortune either.
> Maybe you would be better going the route of the British Council scheme, they seem to pay a decent wage. Either that or teaching Business English in the cities.
> It isnt easy here to get work, even though you are clearly more qualified than most. Also try profesores.com which usually has quite a few vacancies.
> At the moment, I am also looking for work, so I know what it's like.
> Good luck.
> Caz.


The Spanish Government scheme that allows for English native speakers to work in schools. That pays well and there are usually vacancies


----------



## Tallulah

grahunt said:


> The Spanish Government scheme that allows for English native speakers to work in schools. That pays well and there are usually vacancies


Can you post a link Graham? That would be really useful for this thread.

Tallulah.x


----------



## jojo

grahunt said:


> The Spanish Government scheme that allows for English native speakers to work in schools. That pays well and there are usually vacancies



Yes? htats interesting. I was under the impression that the opposite was true. I thought state schools were pretty much a "closed shop" with regards to "immigrants" So thats good news!!!

Jo xxx


----------



## grahunt

*To MissG*



Tallulah said:


> Hi MissG,
> 
> Pesky Wesky had a link for a chap somewhere (Richard Harris???) who employs teaching staff in Spain - also another chap (Graham Hunt??) had a link also for employing teaching staff. Hopefully they'll join in this thread later to correct me and send you in the right direction!
> 
> Best of luck!


Not employing teaching staff exactly but a PGCE can be done in Spain to get jobs here after. Last year all but 1 of those finishing the course got work here and the year before 100% got jobs.


----------



## Pesky Wesky

*finding a job teaching*



MissG said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> I have been reading through this thred an I have found it very interesting. I am about to complete a Masters degree in teaching English to speakers of another language next month. I have been applying left right and centre to many language shcools in Spain (mainly using tefl dot com) and I've not had much luck. I even visited Spain last month with my C.V. in hand and went knocking on doors, but again very little interest.
> 
> I really want to teach in Spain but most money I have been offered so far is 900Euro per month before tax which I could not live off. I am now at my wits end and if anyone could give me any advice I'd really appreciate it.
> 
> Thank you


Hi there,
You can see some ideas for finding work on post ·3 in this thread. You can also try
native english teacher - Trovit Empleo
CityScope Classifieds Jobs Jobs Offered for Madrid
Onestopenglish | Job Shop: Spain Only one job at the moment

August, and we're nearly there, isn't a very good month, but it's still worth trying especially the last 10 days and the beginning of September. As for the pay, well I really think it depends where you're looking, but I think 900euros could well be it at many schools...
I don't think 2000euros is at all realistic for someone with no experience. Actually I don't think it's a realistic figure for an English teacher full stop. No one ever made their fortune just from teaching English (unfortunately)


----------



## grahunt

I don't have a current link for the Spanish Govt scheme for native teachers in schools. However it is always advertised in the TES each year and a bit of Google investigation should help you find it.

Here is the link to the article I wrote about the PGCE in Spain


----------



## Caz.I

grahunt said:


> I don't have a current link for the Spanish Govt scheme for native teachers in schools. However it is always advertised in the TES each year and a bit of Google investigation should help you find it.
> 
> Here is the link to the article I wrote about the PGCE in Spain


Looking at that particular link, it is connected with teaching the British curriculum in British schools in Spain rather than state schools. On the government webite the only thing they have for Brit foreigners teaching English is the Conversation Assistant jobs, as far as I can see. (Link for that posted on page 3 of this thread.) Or do you mean something else?


----------



## grahunt

*Correct*



Caz.I said:


> Looking at that particular link, it is connected with teaching the British curriculum in British schools in Spain rather than state schools. On the government webite the only thing they have for Brit foreigners teaching English is the Conversation Assistant jobs, as far as I can see. (Link for that posted on page 3 of this thread.) Or do you mean something else?


That link is for teaching in international schools in Spain, and also the UK if required. The Spanish conversation assistant thing I will look at. The basics are that you are paid like a Civil Servant (Spanish Teacher) but the contracts are year on year. They are available in regions that do not have a second language already, so not in the Basque Country, Galicia, Catalunya. 

Sorry cannot help more at the moment. Busy transcribing interviews at the moment.


----------



## Pesky Wesky

*PGCE in spain*



Caz.I said:


> Looking at that particular link, it is connected with teaching the British curriculum in British schools in Spain rather than state schools. On the government webite the only thing they have for Brit foreigners teaching English is the Conversation Assistant jobs, as far as I can see. (Link for that posted on page 3 of this thread.) Or do you mean something else?


Caz. I,

Here's the link (I think) in case you couldn't find it

PGCESpain Doing a PGCE in Spain

Is it what you wanted?


----------



## Pesky Wesky

Pesky Wesky said:


> I don't think 2000euros is at all realistic for someone with no experience. Actually I don't think it's a realistic figure for an English teacher full stop. No one ever made their fortune just from teaching English (unfortunately)




Clarification
It's not a realistic figure for a teacher in an academy, I don't know about schools. Also I realise you (missG) didn't say anything about 2000E; somebody else did.


----------



## Caz.I

Pesky Wesky said:


> Caz. I,
> 
> Here's the link (I think) in case you couldn't find it
> 
> PGCESpain Doing a PGCE in Spain
> 
> Is it what you wanted?


No, I had that one but it linked to another article on teaching in international schools. Therefore, I wanted to clarify whether it was for state schools or international, as I thought Graham was originally saying it was for teaching in state schools. Now he has cleared it up, and we know it leads to opportunities in international rather than state schools. But I am sure it will help someone.


----------



## xabiaxica

Pesky Wesky said:


> Clarification
> It's not a realistic figure for a teacher in an academy, I don't know about schools. Also I realise you (missG) didn't say anything about 2000E; somebody else did.


definitely not realistic for an academy

this is a small town rather than a big city, but here they pay 10 euros an hour - and that's contact hours, you don't get paid for time spent preparing lessons - , no contract, & you'd be lucky to get much more than 10 hours a week

I've heard the hourly rate is higher in the city, and you might well get more hours, but I think it unlikely you'd get as many as 20 - and you wouldn't want to have more than 20 contact hours a week tbh - it's not recommended that you do anyway - very mentallt draining


----------



## xabiaxica

grahunt said:


> That link is for teaching in international schools in Spain, and also the UK if required. The Spanish conversation assistant thing I will look at. The basics are that you are paid like a Civil Servant (Spanish Teacher) but the contracts are year on year. They are available in regions that do not have a second language already, so not in the Basque Country, Galicia, Catalunya.
> 
> Sorry cannot help more at the moment. Busy transcribing interviews at the moment.


what about the Valencia region?

our local headteacher said I'd need a good level of valenciano as well as castellano in order to get a job in a school in this region


----------



## grahunt

*Valenciano*



xabiachica said:


> what about the Valencia region?
> 
> our local headteacher said I'd need a good level of valenciano as well as castellano in order to get a job in a school in this region


Is not an offical language of Spain, despite the efforts of the Valencianos to convine the rest of the World that Catalan is derived from Valencian, ie the reconquest went north and not south. 
Therefore you would assume that it could be done here but it isn't. 
I know people who have worked on this scheme in Asturias, Leon, Burgos, Extremadura and Madrid and they all have the common factor of not having another language


----------



## xabiaxica

grahunt said:


> Is not an offical language of Spain, despite the efforts of the Valencianos to convine the rest of the World that Catalan is derived from Valencian, ie the reconquest went north and not south.
> Therefore you would assume that it could be done here but it isn't.
> I know people who have worked on this scheme in Asturias, Leon, Burgos, Extremadura and Madrid and they all have the common factor of not having another language


I know that, you know that - but the fact seems to have completely passed the education department by!

on my dd's book list for next term, it actually says - in valenciano of course - that any (presumably new) student who doesn't speak one of the two official languages of valenciano & castellano shouldn't buy any books until they have been assessed


----------



## SteveHall

That's because they are the official languages of the Comunidad Valenciana and NOT of Spain! 

It is also rumoured to be a co-official language in Torrevieja but you hear more Azerzabani here than valenciano. If Pedro Mateo (long-standing mayor) and Camps were not so deeply in love with each other I am sure Pedro would "lose" the language. In living memory no councillor has spoken Valenciano in a council meeting! Compare that to Jávea where WW3 breaks out on a regular basis as to who is prepared to speak which language etc and you will see quite a difference between the two expat enclaves!


----------



## Pesky Wesky

More info about teaching English abroad
TESL/TEFL qualifications - un knol de icalweb
and
English as a foreign language teacher: Mike | Prospects.ac.uk


----------



## richie rich

HI Pesky
I've recently landed a week with a crowd called 'vaughan Systems'. From what I can understand from their website, they don't seem to be a school so much as a 'teaching consultancy' if I can use the term. IN doing my research i've found some good and bad press about them so I was wondering if you'd heard of them or worked for them etc. 
I'm a recently qualified TEFL teahcer and am looking seriously at this company as a potential full time employer instead of a school as my background is in corporate HR. Can you or do you know of anyone who can offer any advice?
Cheers
Rich


----------



## Caz.I

richie rich said:


> HI Pesky
> I've recently landed a week with a crowd called 'vaughan Systems'. From what I can understand from their website, they don't seem to be a school so much as a 'teaching consultancy' if I can use the term. IN doing my research i've found some good and bad press about them so I was wondering if you'd heard of them or worked for them etc.
> I'm a recently qualified TEFL teahcer and am looking seriously at this company as a potential full time employer instead of a school as my background is in corporate HR. Can you or do you know of anyone who can offer any advice?
> Cheers
> Rich


Hi Rich,
I havent worked for Vaughan Systems, but I was thinking about it at one point as they seemed to pay quite well. I read various comments about them on Dave's ESL Cafe (which also advertises jobs) and they were also mixed. I had a friend who worked for them "autonomo" doing in-company classes and she said she had to wait ages to get paid, but if you are doing the other option and are on contract it may be better. I have heard though that you do have to do a lot of classes to make the money they claim to pay, but they do prefer you not to have experience as they have a particular method they train you in and they dont like you to deviate it from it.
However, other people have commented that if you have the energy and are prepared to work hard, they are okay. 
Dont know where you are, but get the impression there are more opportunities in the cities. Am sure Pesky will have some ideas...

Caz.


----------



## Pesky Wesky

*vaughan systems*



richie rich said:


> HI Pesky
> I've recently landed a week with a crowd called 'vaughan Systems'. From what I can understand from their website, they don't seem to be a school so much as a 'teaching consultancy' if I can use the term. IN doing my research i've found some good and bad press about them so I was wondering if you'd heard of them or worked for them etc.
> I'm a recently qualified TEFL teahcer and am looking seriously at this company as a potential full time employer instead of a school as my background is in corporate HR. Can you or do you know of anyone who can offer any advice?
> Cheers
> Rich


Hi Rich,
Actually I don't know much more than you and Caz I do. I've heard good and bad about them. It's a very well known institution in the Madrid area, and probably in Spain in general. It was the first place to come up with the idea of a village which is entirely English speaking in Spain. Most students love his ideas and you have to admit the guy is creative. He has a tv station, a radio station, he does a magazine which is or was given out with El Mundo, and he now has a masters in English programme (how valid that is I don't know). From what I've seen on the tv station and and heard on the radio though, the teaching is based on good old fashioned drilling exercises and he himself is pretty nauseating.
You could see if anything else comes up...
Sorry I can't help you more


----------



## Liberty

I´ve seen the guy on the TV and like Pesky Wesky says, he is the most irritating guy imaginable! Quite condescending.

Don't know anything about his other business interests though.


----------



## Pesky Wesky

*Vaughan English teaching*



Liberty said:


> I´ve seen the guy on the TV and like Pesky Wesky says, he is the most irritating guy imaginable! Quite condescending.
> 
> Don't know anything about his other business interests though.


Hi Liberty,
Thanks for agreeing with me!
I've found this example of Vaughan teaching which I think is quite a good example of what we were saying...
Beginners Luck: This and That


----------



## Tallulah

Pesky Wesky said:


> Hi Liberty,
> Thanks for agreeing with me!
> I've found this example of Vaughan teaching which I think is quite a good example of what we were saying...
> Beginners Luck: This and That


I remember him now! Yes, irritating little man - used to have a programme on here called "Cloverdale's Corner" - always seemed a little bit lecherous towards his female students on there!!


----------



## richie rich

Hey all,....I just sat through the video, so thanks to everybody for their feedback. I can well understand now why there are many people who are not big fans of his. I can also see why to an englander or an aussie he would appear arrogant as hell ( a teacher trying to become a TV star perhaps?) However, what do the spanish think of him? Is that extra dose of arrogance seen as a good thing by the Spanish? ( a bit of the old 'machismo' ) or are they just as turned off by arrogance as we are?
Apart from that, I thought his 'lesson for beginners' was far too quick, almost as if he was deliberately trying to confuse his 'ginea pig' rather than teach. 
thanks again everyone 
cheers
Rich


----------



## Pesky Wesky

richie rich said:


> HI Pesky
> I've recently landed a week with a crowd called 'vaughan Systems'. From what I can understand from their website, they don't seem to be a school so much as a 'teaching consultancy' if I can use the term. IN doing my research i've found some good and bad press about them so I was wondering if you'd heard of them or worked for them etc.
> I'm a recently qualified TEFL teahcer and am looking seriously at this company as a potential full time employer instead of a school as my background is in corporate HR. Can you or do you know of anyone who can offer any advice?
> Cheers
> Rich


Don't want to keep on about the guy, but came across this article today and thought it gave a pretty good idea of the Vaughan village (and another insight into the man himself)
http://www.studenttraveler.com/mod-Pagesetter-printpub-tid-10002-pid-213.html


----------



## richie rich

Pesky Wesky said:


> Don't want to keep on about the guy, but came across this article today and thought it gave a pretty good idea of the Vaughan village (and another insight into the man himself)
> http://www.studenttraveler.com/mod-Pagesetter-printpub-tid-10002-pid-213.html


Thanks Pesky, 
I can understand that he certainly seems to have the ability to rub some people up the wrong way. 
However, as I said in an earlier post, his approach certainly isn't for everyone. The transition from academia to corporate busniess is not an easy one, the amount of available time, the tolerance levels, the fact that these guys have multi million dollar deals riding on how they're perceived unofortunetly creates fairly Machiavellian environment which is not suited to a more normal method of teaching. 
I've got a few friends who work some of these of these companies and even at senior partner level they still gets calls at 2 or 3 in the morning and have to get up and work. It might be doing research etc but more often than not it's a conference call with people on different parts of the planet.
I guess the only parable I can draw is of a courtroom where the clients are the judge. They have little or no time, they need to get to the root of the matter, pass a judgement and move on. 
We'll see what happens when I'm down there in October......my god I'm looking forward to some decent food, some decent sun and ( this is very unblokey of me) even some decent shopping.
Take care and talk soon.
Cheers
Rich


----------



## Pesky Wesky

*Academies in Madrid*

This site has loads of stuff about teaching inSpain, doing a TEFL course in Spain etc. More focussed on Madrid though I think. This link gives teachers' opinions about some academies in Madrid.
The Pain in Spain: academies with no scruples

But you should also look at this link that gives further info.
https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=5075580797214689120&postID=4428826313280897205&isPopup=true



I can also recommend
ACE and Atlantic Group


----------



## richie rich

HI PW, thanks for that, it was very informative. 
One thing that really stood out for me was that many schools and academies seem to have really poor job matching skills. When I was in the corporate arena, that was actually my speciality  Job matching or 'employment matrixing' is crucial in delivering the correct level of service to clients ( in this case students) I'm suprised that there are so many complaints about who has to teach what and where. 
I have to ask,...is it because the people who run these companies have no idea how to job match or is it that there are too few available teachers so they get thrown in anywhere? Either way, the schools or academies that continue with this practice will slowly but surely disappear, and, possibly, many people who could be great teachers will get burnt out and leave the profession. 
This leads to an interesting opportunity,.....a qualified teacher who understands how to read between the lines of a resume, who knows how to conduct a professional behavioural based interviews, who knows how to conduct proper reference checks...who knows how to listen and understand what both the clients and teachers wants/needs are, and then form the correct match of teacher to class.........I wonder if there would be a use for that sort of person


----------



## Tallulah

OK, not strictly on a "teaching English in Spain" vibe - but....
Do any of you here take in foreign students? Just thinking as we have friends that do it and it's surely an advantage to expats in Spain (not only for the extra cash, obviously!!) but the fact that you could provide an English speaking environment whilst also providing the experience of living in Spain. Might be worth a thought. Also perhaps "twinning" with your old area in the UK. My kids' school right now is twinned with a place in New York and they do exchanges/visits over there which was set up initially via some Spaniards from the area and school that then went on to live and teach in New York - so I'm thinking I might have a word with someone we know here to see if it's feasible. Any experiences you care to share??

Tallulah.x


----------



## jojo

Tallulah said:


> OK, not strictly on a "teaching English in Spain" vibe - but....
> Do any of you here take in foreign students? Just thinking as we have friends that do it and it's surely an advantage to expats in Spain (not only for the extra cash, obviously!!) but the fact that you could provide an English speaking environment whilst also providing the experience of living in Spain. Might be worth a thought. Also perhaps "twinning" with your old area in the UK. My kids' school right now is twinned with a place in New York and they do exchanges/visits over there - so thinking I might have a word with someone we know here to see if it's feasible. Any experiences you care to share??
> 
> Tallulah.x



I did that as a kid, my town was twinned with a french town and every summer I was packed off to stay with a french family for 3 weeks, and of course we'd have the return students stay with us for 3 weeks. We also had pen pals, wrote letters, got involved in their local events etc!! it did wonders for my french, I was almost fluent at one stage and passed my O level grade A a year early!!!


jo xxx


----------



## Pesky Wesky

richie rich said:


> HI PW, thanks for that, it was very informative.
> One thing that really stood out for me was that many schools and academies seem to have really poor job matching skills. When I was in the corporate arena, that was actually my speciality  Job matching or 'employment matrixing' is crucial in delivering the correct level of service to clients ( in this case students) I'm suprised that there are so many complaints about who has to teach what and where.
> I have to ask,...is it because the people who run these companies have no idea how to job match or is it that there are too few available teachers so they get thrown in anywhere? Either way, the schools or academies that continue with this practice will slowly but surely disappear, and, possibly, many people who could be great teachers will get burnt out and leave the profession.
> This leads to an interesting opportunity,.....a qualified teacher who understands how to read between the lines of a resume, who knows how to conduct a professional behavioural based interviews, who knows how to conduct proper reference checks...who knows how to listen and understand what both the clients and teachers wants/needs are, and then form the correct match of teacher to class.........I wonder if there would be a use for that sort of person


A quick, kind of negative, reply...
I think a lot of schools just don't care about keeping students and/ or teachers happy. There are lots of students and lots of teachers. In the past schools didn't care about keeping good teachers on because they might have to pay their summer holidays, give them a pay rise, that kind of thing and also the longer teachers are around the more they get to know. For example you can't have class finishing at ten and have an early morning class the next day. 
Now students know more about learning English and recognise a good teacher more easily I think so are more likely to go if they don't receive good teaching, but there still seem to be plenty of dire academies out there...


----------



## Tallulah

jojo said:


> I did that as a kid, my town was twinned with a french town and every summer I was packed off to stay with a french family for 3 weeks, and of course we'd have the return students stay with us for 3 weeks. We also had pen pals, wrote letters, got involved in their local events etc!! it did wonders for my french, I was almost fluent at one stage and passed my O level grade A a year early!!!
> 
> 
> jo xxx



Yes, I agree Jo - I too have great memories of French exchanges as a child and then teenager....it's fantastic at that age to have the opportunity of not only learning languages at school, but experiencing the everyday life, culture, languages in its own country.....in fact what we say here sometimes, it's great being able to learn the lingo before you come, but you absorb so much more in the actual country itself by just living it!

Tally.xxx


----------



## richie rich

Pesky Wesky said:


> A quick, kind of negative, reply...
> I think a lot of schools just don't care about keeping students and/ or teachers happy. There are lots of students and lots of teachers. In the past schools didn't care about keeping good teachers on because they might have to pay their summer holidays, give them a pay rise, that kind of thing and also the longer teachers are around the more they get to know. For example you can't have class finishing at ten and have an early morning class the next day.
> Now students know more about learning English and recognise a good teacher more easily I think so are more likely to go if they don't receive good teaching, but there still seem to be plenty of dire academies out there...


hmmm, okay, so it seems like there's a fair bit of 'churn and burn'. I know from experience what that leads to and in the long run,...it doesn't work. The schools or academies that do that will first start to loose teachers and after that will start to lose thier 'paying' students. Once they start to lose their students they start to get a reputation and so on and so on. It almost seems like there's a market in there for a reasonably professional company/ academy. Still, before that can happen one needs to get the 'lie of the land'. 
By the way, I checked out those academies you mentioned. Atlantic seems very professional although they only take experienced teachers, ( the ink still isn't dry on my qualification) but I've got enough information on several to fill the second week of my stay with interveiews and meetings. Am tempted to see if I can scrounge enough dinero so I can stay for a 3rd week just to sight see,...but maybe will leave that for when I finally get there 
Cheers
Rich


----------



## Pesky Wesky

:bounce:

Especially dedicated to all those English teachers or wannabe teachers out there

How to use English idioms






ound:


----------



## xabiaxica

Pesky Wesky said:


> :bounce:
> 
> Especially dedicated to all those English teachers or wannabe teachers out there
> 
> How to use English idioms
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JibxHpXqAfc
> 
> ound:


:laugh::rofl::laugh::rofl:


----------



## Pesky Wesky

xabiachica said:


> :laugh::rofl::laugh::rofl:


Maybe you have to be an English teacher to see the funny side of this, but it just really makes me laugh every time I watch it!


----------



## Caz.I

Pesky Wesky said:


> Maybe you have to be an English teacher to see the funny side of this, but it just really makes me laugh every time I watch it!


Ha ha. :rofl::rofl: 
Brilliant, Pesky. Best laugh I have had all day. :clap2::clap2:


----------



## Pesky Wesky

Caz.I said:


> Ha ha. :rofl::rofl:
> Brilliant, Pesky. Best laugh I have had all day. :clap2::clap2:


Isn't it just!


----------



## Pesky Wesky

*bilingual schools*

A link to a short article about the bilingual programme that the Ministery of Ed. is working on with the British Council, which has been mentioned before i think with no link

Bilingual project - Education - British Council - Spain


----------



## richie rich

HI Pw,...a quick question: It's about a 90% probability that I'll be moving dow there at some point within the next 6 months. While I love DK, the opportunities simply aren't here. That being said, I'm guessing that I'll most likely end up being an Autonomo until I really get my feet under the table. The question, is that obviously I'll need an apartment and as I'll be an autonomo, would I be able to register the apartment in my 'company' name and get some form of tax rebate? I'm aware I should really be talking to an accountant about this but I'd appreciate a 'guesstimation' if you can. 
One other thing...I'm still in the process of debating what to bring with me and what to leave behind.....so I'm wondering how much a 32 or 37 inch flat screen TV costs,....a decently powerful PC etc......just ball park figures is all I'm after.
Cheers
Rich
P.S
It's been bucketing down rain all week.


----------



## Pesky Wesky

richie rich said:


> HI Pw,...a quick question: It's about a 90% probability that I'll be moving dow there at some point within the next 6 months. While I love DK, the opportunities simply aren't here. That being said, I'm guessing that I'll most likely end up being an Autonomo until I really get my feet under the table. The question, is that obviously I'll need an apartment and as I'll be an autonomo, would I be able to register the apartment in my 'company' name and get some form of tax rebate? I'm aware I should really be talking to an accountant about this but I'd appreciate a 'guesstimation' if you can.
> One other thing...I'm still in the process of debating what to bring with me and what to leave behind.....so I'm wondering how much a 32 or 37 inch flat screen TV costs,....a decently powerful PC etc......just ball park figures is all I'm after.
> Cheers
> Rich
> P.S
> It's been bucketing down rain all week.


The only thing i can really comment on here is the _*bucketing down*_ It's boiling here so if you should feel the need to fry an egg on the pavement this is the place to do it!
I've barely got past the "How does the DVD work?" and have no idea of these modern flat screen do dahs.
Chica or Jo would know about PCs and TVs as they've probably bought more recently than me. Or try asking on the cost of living thread.
As for autonomos and that kind of stuff Tallulah's your lady. What more, if I give the info and it's wrong she tells me off in the next post. I don't want to risk it Richie!!


----------



## Liberty

richie rich said:


> HI Pw,...a quick question: It's about a 90% probability that I'll be moving dow there at some point within the next 6 months. While I love DK, the opportunities simply aren't here. That being said, I'm guessing that I'll most likely end up being an Autonomo until I really get my feet under the table. The question, is that obviously I'll need an apartment and as I'll be an autonomo, would I be able to register the apartment in my 'company' name and get some form of tax rebate? I'm aware I should really be talking to an accountant about this but I'd appreciate a 'guesstimation' if you can.
> One other thing...I'm still in the process of debating what to bring with me and what to leave behind.....so I'm wondering how much a 32 or 37 inch flat screen TV costs,....a decently powerful PC etc......just ball park figures is all I'm after.
> Cheers
> Rich
> P.S
> It's been bucketing down rain all week.


If the apartment that you rent is your main residence then then full rental amount _shouldn't_ be tax deductable. Doesn't stop you from having a try though. If you don't get investigated you will get away with it.

What should happen is that if say for example, 10% of your apartment is dedicated to your business (eg, you have converted one of the bedrooms into a home office) then 10% of your rent/mortgage would be tax deductable.


----------



## grahunt

*Correct on the tax deduction point.*



Liberty said:


> If the apartment that you rent is your main residence then then full rental amount _shouldn't_ be tax deductable. Doesn't stop you from having a try though. If you don't get investigated you will get away with it.
> 
> What should happen is that if say for example, 10% of your apartment is dedicated to your business (eg, you have converted one of the bedrooms into a home office) then 10% of your rent/mortgage would be tax deductable.


You need to dedicate a big room to it to declare a greater percentage but never need to declare where it is or show it to anyone. You must also make sure that the owner of the apartment is Ok with it.
BTW 32/7 inch TV for between 399 and 599 Euros up to infinity an computer well get a Mac at around 1000 but basic good PC around 399-599 on offers.


----------



## richie rich

HOwdy, and thanks for that, it makes the old basic budgeting a tad easier


----------



## starletta

*international schools*

Having just read thru this article a few things made me chuckle!

I have worked in 2 of the biggest international schools on the coast and currently very happy at one of them!

Many of the schools do not employ qualified staff, and on thing you should be very aware of , several of these schools are run by a husband and wife business team .

They sole priority is making money not the education of their pupils, before you enrol your children I would recommend you research the school very carefully.

And do ask to see there results ! recently one school did very poorly indeed!


----------



## xabiaxica

starletta said:


> Having just read thru this article a few things made me chuckle!
> 
> I have worked in 2 of the biggest international schools on the coast and currently very happy at one of them!
> 
> Many of the schools do not employ qualified staff, and on thing you should be very aware of , several of these schools are run by a husband and wife business team .
> 
> They sole priority is making money not the education of their pupils, before you enrol your children I would recommend you research the school very carefully.
> 
> And do ask to see there results ! recently one school did very poorly indeed!


one school I know, the head doesn't have a teaching qualification & a year 1 teacher is a nursery nurse


----------



## Pesky Wesky

starletta said:


> Having just read thru this article a few things made me chuckle!
> 
> I have worked in 2 of the biggest international schools on the coast and currently very happy at one of them!
> 
> Many of the schools do not employ qualified staff, and on thing you should be very aware of , several of these schools are run by a husband and wife business team .
> 
> They sole priority is making money not the education of their pupils, before you enrol your children I would recommend you research the school very carefully.
> 
> And do ask to see there results ! recently one school did very poorly indeed!


Have to agree that it's not all rosy out there and have heard of a husband and wife team here in Madrid that a friend is working for...
Some private schools are run purely as business, which shouldn't surprise us really, and therefore educational issues, teachers and children sometimes get in the way of making money. 
As you say, shcools should be throughly researched - all schools


----------



## Pesky Wesky

*Looking for work as an English teacher*

Advice from Janice from Windsor school Madrid for teachers looking for employment which I agree with, sounds good to me



> One tip I would like to give to teachers still looking for work - if your CV hasn’t had a response from a school you’re keen to work with, send it again - even though I myself organise the CVs I receive into appropriate electronic files, it’s often about timing. If I’m running out of available teachers so decide to do another round of interviews and several CVs land in my inbox that day, it’s often those teachers who will be contacted for interview.
> 
> And be assertive; follow up with a phone call. We receive so many CVs that some slip through the net. A quick chat on the phone may be just what is needed to make the difference between getting invited to interview or not. It doesn’t always work, but you have nothing to lose.


However Janice also says...



> There seems to be a boyancy in the market that is reflected in all areas;my contacts in the sector are saying the same.


This isn't my experience nor that of my "contacts". Thank goodness that at the moment all my clients have signed up for another year and I'm not looking for work. Usually at this time of year I'm getting 3 - 5 phone calls a day and a couple of mails on top of people wanting class. This year about a third of that.

There ARE still jobs out there, not so many, but someone's got to get them, haven't they?

Here are a couple of examples for you.

Good luck if you're looking for work

english teacher - Trovit Empleo

Vacancies in the database - TEFL.com


----------



## chris(madrid)

One thing that is going to begin to make this all interesting. 

Many regions are now making BILINGUAL studies compulsory. My Spanish niece is more or less bilingual (not via me either) and she is university-ing at the mo. Younger kids will be bilingual here. 

I have a friend who runs a small language school near us (dual English/German and Spanish for foreigners) with his Spanish wife. Both qualified. But as he says - the future is bleak as the real way to make money is to get young students and keep them until they are working. And new intake has more or less stopped.


----------



## Tallulah

chris(madrid) said:


> One thing that is going to begin to make this all interesting.
> 
> Many regions are now making BILINGUAL studies compulsory. My Spanish niece is more or less bilingual (not via me either) and she is university-ing at the mo. Younger kids will be bilingual here.
> 
> I have a friend who runs a small language school near us (dual English/German and Spanish for foreigners) with his Spanish wife. Both qualified. But as he says - the future is bleak as the real way to make money is to get young students and keep them until they are working. And new intake has more or less stopped.



Yes Chris, it's happening here too - even oop North - in Pontevedra as we speak. I think there is a huge difference though in running a small language school and changing an education system throughout the country, without being able to deliver given the severe lack of truly competent teachers of English in Spain, be them native teachers of the language or otherwise. Remember, when I say this, that like you, I am referring to BILINGUAL as opposed to "getting by" as one might say about many, many students with a secondary language. 

And then there is the obvious anomaly with the lack of reporting to the public of results. How on earth are they supposed to teach not only another language, but various subjects (one of the options taken up in Pontevedra is to teach other subjects in English to underpin the language lesson itself) in another language, capture their audience and to ensure they attain the required levels to further their education??

I'm all for a multi-lingual education for my children's future - BUT I'm incredibly thankful that they have a huge headstart with English - otherwise Castellano, Gallego, English, all compulsory - and then in ESO (segundo curso) French will be added, as the selected option language, might seem a little ambitious. Given Gallego's proximity to Portuguese, I'm quite glad of those choices, but can't help wondering if four languages isn't a tad too much for any child....lets hope not!!

Tallulah.x


----------



## Pesky Wesky

Tallulah said:


> Yes Chris, it's happening here too - even oop North - in Pontevedra as we speak. I think there is a huge difference though in running a small language school and changing an education system throughout the country, without being able to deliver given the severe lack of truly competent teachers of English in Spain, be them native teachers of the language or otherwise. Remember, when I say this, that like you, I am referring to BILINGUAL as opposed to "getting by" as one might say about many, many students with a secondary language.
> 
> 
> Tallulah.x


Hi Tallulah!!!
How are things??

I very much agree with Tallulah on this. 
Bilingual education is a wonderful opportunity for many children in the world, but like everything, it has to be approached in an appropriate manner. I'm sure there is more than one way of doing this, but changing a school from one school year to the next to "bilingual", giving the teachers a few hours tuition in the language and saying "Go forth and teach!" has me thinking that this particular path is not going to make kids, teachers or schools bilingual for a while.
Parents, who are caught in the middle of all this as usual, may be sold on the idea, but hopefully the more "aware" parents will see that their children are not learning English through this programme. Eventually they probably will, but I have big doubts about it at the moment.

Language academies will, bit by bit, have to adapt to these changes offering perhaps other languages and or other services - (more adult classes, mother and toddler groups, teach your pet English... who knows??!!)
Just as we've all had to adapt to the technological change academies have to adapt to the changing market too


----------



## jojo

Pesky Wesky said:


> Hi Tallulah!!!
> How are things??
> 
> I very much agree with Tallulah on this.
> Bilingual education is a wonderful opportunity for many children in the world, but like everything, it has to be approached in an appropriate manner. I'm sure there is more than one way of doing this, but changing a school from one school year to the next to "bilingual", giving the teachers a few hours tuition in the language and saying "Go forth and teach!" has me thinking that this particular path is not going to make kids, teachers or schools bilingual for a while.
> Parents, who are caught in the middle of all this as usual, may be sold on the idea, but hopefully the more "aware" parents will see that their children are not learning English through this programme. Eventually they probably will, but have big doubts about it at the moment.
> 
> Language academies will, bit by bit, have to adapt to these changes offering perhaps other languages and or other services - (more adult classes, mother and toddler groups, teach you pet English... who knows??!!)
> Just as we've all had to adapt to the technological change academies have to adapt to the changing market too



I think its a crazy idea!! The thinking behind it is well meant I'm sure, but its not right for all the reasons you guys give! Can you imagine the outcry if they trid to do it in the UK???

No, Spain is Spain and you cant change the whle education of a country in a heart beat, its not fair on anyone

Jo xx


----------



## JBODEN

jojo said:


> I think its a crazy idea!! The thinking behind it is well meant I'm sure, but its not right for all the reasons you guys give! Can you imagine the outcry if they trid to do it in the UK???
> 
> No, Spain is Spain and you cant change the whle education of a country in a heart beat, its not fair on anyone
> 
> Jo xx


In the east end of London, in some schools they teach English as a _foreign _language. ... and WASPs aren't allowed to protest.


----------



## xabiaxica

Tallulah said:


> Yes Chris, it's happening here too - even oop North - in Pontevedra as we speak. I think there is a huge difference though in running a small language school and changing an education system throughout the country, without being able to deliver given the severe lack of truly competent teachers of English in Spain, be them native teachers of the language or otherwise. Remember, when I say this, that like you, I am referring to BILINGUAL as opposed to "getting by" as one might say about many, many students with a secondary language.
> 
> And then there is the obvious anomaly with the lack of reporting to the public of results. How on earth are they supposed to teach not only another language, but various subjects (one of the options taken up in Pontevedra is to teach other subjects in English to underpin the language lesson itself) in another language, capture their audience and to ensure they attain the required levels to further their education??
> 
> I'm all for a multi-lingual education for my children's future - BUT I'm incredibly thankful that they have a huge headstart with English - otherwise Castellano, Gallego, English, all compulsory - and then in ESO (segundo curso) French will be added, as the selected option language, might seem a little ambitious. Given Gallego's proximity to Portuguese, I'm quite glad of those choices, but can't help wondering if four languages isn't a tad too much for any child....lets hope not!!
> 
> Tallulah.x


my elder dd seems to managing ok with four languages

last year (primer ESO) she didn't have to study English but we obviously speak english at home, most of her subjects are in Valenciano (her choice) with castellano taught in, well, castellano

she also started learning German - and scored a good grade too

this year she is 'well miffed' (her words, the spanish version of her feelings is unprintable) to discover that she _has_ to do English as a subject


----------



## xabiaxica

Pesky Wesky said:


> Hi Tallulah!!!
> How are things??
> 
> I very much agree with Tallulah on this.
> Bilingual education is a wonderful opportunity for many children in the world, but like everything, it has to be approached in an appropriate manner. I'm sure there is more than one way of doing this, but changing a school from one school year to the next to "bilingual", giving the teachers a few hours tuition in the language and saying "Go forth and teach!" has me thinking that this particular path is not going to make kids, teachers or schools bilingual for a while.
> Parents, who are caught in the middle of all this as usual, may be sold on the idea, but hopefully the more "aware" parents will see that their children are not learning English through this programme. Eventually they probably will, but I have big doubts about it at the moment.
> 
> Language academies will, bit by bit, have to adapt to these changes offering perhaps other languages and or other services - (more adult classes, mother and toddler groups, teach your pet English... who knows??!!)
> Just as we've all had to adapt to the technological change academies have to adapt to the changing market too


I think it's a great idea - but it hasn't been thought through well enough - there just aren't enough subject teachers who speak good enough english

they need to employ truly (or at least nearly) bilingual subject teachers for it to work


----------



## Tallulah

xabiachica said:


> my elder dd seems to managing ok with four languages
> 
> last year (primer ESO) she didn't have to study English but we obviously speak english at home, most of her subjects are in Valenciano (her choice) with castellano taught in, well, castellano
> 
> she also started learning German - and scored a good grade too
> 
> this year she is 'well miffed' (her words, the spanish version of her feelings is unprintable) to discover that she _has_ to do English as a subject


Morning XC!

I'll take your words as encouragement then! But then again, look at it this way - we've raised our children here and they are already bi-lingual - or tri-lingual with the three languages (one of them being the languages of Valencia/Galicia with us both living in autonomous regions). How difficult is it going to be not only for the native children already struggling with Valenciano/Gallego and then English as an option to then be taught other subjects in English - and for them to be taught by qualified, competent, bilingual teachers?? I'm interested to hear though that she has a choice of being taught in Valenciano though (I assume the other option is Castellano??). That's a hot subject here at the moment. We'll see how Feijoo does at the next election on this one here. Parents voting with their feet on the whole education system I think.

Tallulah.x


----------



## Tallulah

Pesky Wesky said:


> Hi Tallulah!!!
> How are things??
> 
> I very much agree with Tallulah on this.
> Bilingual education is a wonderful opportunity for many children in the world, but like everything, it has to be approached in an appropriate manner. I'm sure there is more than one way of doing this, but changing a school from one school year to the next to "bilingual", giving the teachers a few hours tuition in the language and saying "Go forth and teach!" has me thinking that this particular path is not going to make kids, teachers or schools bilingual for a while.
> Parents, who are caught in the middle of all this as usual, may be sold on the idea, but hopefully the more "aware" parents will see that their children are not learning English through this programme. Eventually they probably will, but I have big doubts about it at the moment.
> 
> Language academies will, bit by bit, have to adapt to these changes offering perhaps other languages and or other services - (more adult classes, mother and toddler groups, teach your pet English... who knows??!!)
> Just as we've all had to adapt to the technological change academies have to adapt to the changing market too



Morning PW! I'm very well thanks, but very tired. Hope you're well too!

Just a thought....I think the academies in the end won't suffer too much. At the moment, yes, there are good and bad but it's also a sign of the crisis. If you look at the recent reports on the subject, parents here have been paying out to academies (not just for languages) for years now. In fact, some parents pay out hundreds of euros per month for "pasantia", in order to get their kids up to scratch and through exams. If schools are planning on this as a serious way forward, then I can only see academy business going up - or one-on-one lessons. 

Tallulah.x


----------



## jojo

JBODEN said:


> In the east end of London, in some schools they teach English as a _foreign _language. ... and WASPs aren't allowed to protest.



My neice is a teacher and last year she had a job in a primary school in east london. Out of a 30 plus pupils, only TWO had english as their first language, she had to have 3 teaching assistants who spoke various languages to translate! My niece left cos she felt nothing was being achieved - certainly no intergration of any kind. There were constant fights between the kids and my niece finally walked out when a parent pinned her up against a wall by her throat during a parents evening!

Scary eh?!

Jo xxxx


----------



## xabiaxica

Tallulah said:


> Morning XC!
> 
> I'll take your words as encouragement then! But then again, look at it this way - we've raised our children here and they are already bi-lingual - or tri-lingual with the three languages (one of them being the languages of Valencia/Galicia with us both living in autonomous regions). How difficult is it going to be not only for the native children already struggling with Valenciano/Gallego and then English as an option to then be taught other subjects in English - and for them to be taught by qualified, competent, bilingual teachers?? I'm interested to hear though that she has a choice of being taught in Valenciano though (I assume the other option is Castellano??). That's a hot subject here at the moment. We'll see how Feijoo does at the next election on this one here. Parents voting with their feet on the whole education system I think.
> 
> Tallulah.x


morning!

I think the fact that they are already bi-lingual would make it ok for our kids - as long as the teachers were competent & bilingual as you say - but yes, for native spanish kids it would be harder

perhaps they government has seen how foreign kids do cope when immersed in a foreign language at a young age ?- so wants spanish kids to have the same opportunity - it does need to be done at a young age though, as we all agree


the valenciano thing - here, there is a castellano 'stream' & a valenciano one

in primary, the primary education in most state schools is 60% one & 40% the other (more or less)

both my girls came through la linea castellana (my choice)

when dd1 moved on to ESO she was given the opportunity to switch lineas - but had to have a level test in valenciano first (she was put into the 'native' group! - some 'natives' weren't!)

her thinking - correctly - is that when 'foreign' teens are put into spanish school they are always put into the castellano line & are very often disruptive

she didn't want to be with disruptive kids.........................


----------



## xabiaxica

Tallulah said:


> Morning PW! I'm very well thanks, but very tired. Hope you're well too!
> 
> Just a thought....I think the academies in the end won't suffer too much. At the moment, yes, there are good and bad but it's also a sign of the crisis. If you look at the recent reports on the subject, parents here have been paying out to academies (not just for languages) for years now. In fact, some parents pay out hundreds of euros per month for "pasantia", in order to get their kids up to scratch and through exams. If schools are planning on this as a serious way forward, then I can only see academy business going up - or one-on-one lessons.
> 
> Tallulah.x


I know (online) a guy who runs a language school here in spain - mostly teaching english to spanish kids

the local Ayuntamiento even used to boast about the school in their 'blurb'

last year they (the Ayu.) started offering free english classes to locals...................


----------



## Pesky Wesky

xabiachica said:


> morning!
> 
> 
> 
> when dd1 moved on to ESO she was given the opportunity to switch lineas - but had to have a level test in valenciano first (she was put into the 'native' group! - some 'natives' weren't!)
> 
> .........................


I can't stand it any longer xabiachica - What is dd???
You're always using it and try as I might I don't know what it is and it's driving me MAD!!!!!!
I suppose daughter is there somewhere???
I know, I'm a dimwit.


----------



## Tallulah

xabiachica said:


> I know (online) a guy who runs a language school here in spain - mostly teaching english to spanish kids
> 
> the local Ayuntamiento even used to boast about the school in their 'blurb'
> 
> last year they (the Ayu.) started offering free english classes to locals...................


Incredibly frustrating.  OK, so the "clients" get free lessons.....however, the Ayu have to be employing someone to teach those classes though?? They are not going to be able to cope with the proposed scenario. Academies/private tutors will still be around. It could turn out quite profitable one day....or at least provide something of a living??


----------



## Pesky Wesky

Tallulah said:


> Morning PW! I'm very well thanks, but very tired. Hope you're well too!
> 
> Just a thought....I think the academies in the end won't suffer too much. At the moment, yes, there are good and bad but it's also a sign of the crisis. If you look at the recent reports on the subject, parents here have been paying out to academies (not just for languages) for years now. In fact, some parents pay out hundreds of euros per month for "pasantia", in order to get their kids up to scratch and through exams. If schools are planning on this as a serious way forward, then I can only see academy business going up - or one-on-one lessons.
> 
> Tallulah.x


Generalising a huge amount...
Most Spanish parents want their kids to pass the exams at school, not necessarily receive a rich and varied education, just pass the damn exams. If the government wants this to work they can play with the figures to their hearts content (just as they do in UK with GCSEs etc) and make those kids pass the exams. Kids pass exams, vast majority of parents don't pay for extra classes. I think it'll take a while because the system's not up and running in all regions and it's being brought in bit by bit in each school, but it's what COULD happen in the future


----------



## xabiaxica

Pesky Wesky said:


> I can't stand it any longer xabiachica - What is dd???
> You're always using it and try as I might I don't know what it is and it's driving me MAD!!!!!!
> I suppose daughter is there somewhere???
> I know, I'm a dimwit.



dd dear/darling daughter - dd1 oldest - dd2 next etc..........

ds - son

oh - other half

SWMBO - my favourite - she who must be obeyed:clap2:


----------



## richie rich

jojo said:


> My neice is a teacher and last year she had a job in a primary school in east london. Out of a 30 plus pupils, only TWO had english as their first language, she had to have 3 teaching assistants who spoke various languages to translate! My niece left cos she felt nothing was being achieved - certainly no intergration of any kind. There were constant fights between the kids and my niece finally walked out when a parent pinned her up against a wall by her throat during a parents evening!
> 
> Scary eh?!
> 
> Jo xxxx


JoJo
I'm really sorry to hear that. There is no excuse for a parent to do that sort of thing, I hope she's okay while I completely agree she did teh right thing in walking out, I hope at some point she'll get back on the horse..good luck to her say I. )


----------



## richie rich

xabiachica said:


> dd dear/darling daughter - dd1 oldest - dd2 next etc..........
> 
> ds - son
> 
> oh - other half
> 
> SWMBO - my favourite - she who must be obeyed:clap2:


what about Hi ) her indoors) or BAC ( ball and chain) )) not that I'd ever use them of course ;-)


----------



## Pesky Wesky

xabiachica said:


> dd dear/darling daughter - dd1 oldest - dd2 next etc..........
> 
> ds - son
> 
> oh - other half
> 
> SWMBO - my favourite - she who must be obeyed:clap2:


What a relief to finally KNOW.
You don't have "The meaning of Life" by any chance do you????????


----------



## Tallulah

What's iirc?? I see that one quite a bit too.


----------



## xabiaxica

Pesky Wesky said:


> Generalising a huge amount...
> Most Spanish parents want their kids to pass the exams at school, not necessarily receive a rich and varied education, just pass the damn exams. If the government wants this to work they can play with the figures to their hearts content (just as they do in UK with GCSEs etc) and make those kids pass the exams. Kids pass exams, vast majority of parents don't pay for extra classes. I think it'll take a while because the system's not up and running in all regions and it's being brought in bit by bit in each school, but it's what COULD happen in the future


you're right

last summer I crammed a spanish boy for his primer ESO english resit- his mum desperately wanted him to speak english (she could a little) - but we had to just plough through the grammar books (apparently they didn't even speak english in class!)

I asked her why the parents at the school (in Valencia city) didn't do something about it if they weren't happy about it (as we did here)

she told me she had asked other parents & she was totally alone in her opinion


----------



## Pesky Wesky

Tallulah said:


> What's iirc?? I see that one quite a bit too.


Got to get here quickly before anyone else does!
If I Recall/Remember Correctly
Looked up on Acronyms and Abbreviations


----------



## Tallulah

Pesky Wesky said:


> Generalising a huge amount...
> Most Spanish parents want their kids to pass the exams at school, not necessarily receive a rich and varied education, just pass the damn exams. If the government wants this to work they can play with the figures to their hearts content (just as they do in UK with GCSEs etc) and make those kids pass the exams. Kids pass exams, vast majority of parents don't pay for extra classes. I think it'll take a while because the system's not up and running in all regions and it's being brought in bit by bit in each school, but it's what COULD happen in the future


Good point. There is "passing exams" and "passing exams" though - ie just scraping through enough to achieve a pass and actually being good at the subject to achieve a decent pass. That's a huge problem here - or in any educational system really - and that's where the money is being spent on pasantia because I think parents do want the kids to do well as they know that the following year, be it in ESO or Instituto, those kids are looking at a possible fail and repeat situation. A lot of teachers have commented recently that as the children are going further up the school/education ladder, they are underprepared for what is to come. It's push, push, push from an early age here - now who's fault is that? Here we go again on the "funcionarios".....


----------



## Tallulah

Bloody good thread you've got here, PW!!:clap2::ranger:


----------



## Pesky Wesky

Tallulah said:


> Good point. There is "passing exams" and "passing exams" though - ie just scraping through enough to achieve a pass and actually being good at the subject to achieve a decent pass. That's a huge problem here - or in any educational system really - and that's where the money is being spent on pasantia because I think parents do want the kids to do well as they know that the following year, be it in ESO or Instituto, those kids are looking at a possible fail and repeat situation. A lot of teachers have commented recently that as the children are going further up the school/education ladder, they are underprepared for what is to come. It's push, push, push from an early age here - now who's fault is that? Here we go again on the "funcionarios".....


Which funcionarios? Not the teachers usually. Do you mean higher up?


----------



## Pesky Wesky

Tallulah said:


> Bloody good thread you've got here, PW!!:clap2::ranger:


Hardly my thread, but I did start it off I suppose.
The thing is education is something that should, :thumb: and usually does, create a lot of interest and that what we're seeing here I think. I love it when people give informative, clear, interesting info with occasional wit and gossip thrown in!!
But what makes it good too, and the forum in general, is that it keeps moving so it's important to make those contributions. (over 3,000 now)
:faint: 
Now that's what I call a smilie!!


----------



## Tallulah

Pesky Wesky said:


> Tallulah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Good point. There is "passing exams" and "passing exams" though - ie just scraping through enough to achieve a pass and actually being good at the subject to achieve a decent pass. That's a huge problem here - or in any educational system really - and that's where the money is being spent on pasantia because I think parents do want the kids to do well as they know that the following year, be it in ESO or Instituto, those kids are looking at a possible fail and repeat situation. A lot of teachers have commented recently that as the children are going further up the school/education ladder, they are underprepared for what is to come. It's push, push, push from an early age here - now who's fault is that? Here we go again on the "funcionarios".....
> 
> 
> 
> Which funcionarios? Not the teachers usually. Do you mean higher up?
Click to expand...

No I mean the teachers. Those funcionarios. They are personal target driven and not at all student results driven. Therefore, many times during PTA type meetings, conversations have come up where it has been made ABUNDANTLY clear that the teachers' job is to deliver the goods (the curriculum) - the child's preparedness/stance/behaviour/willingness/home studying to top up as required, etc, is something that they will contribute to voluntarily if they wish, but it is the parents who ultimately must achieve this result with the child, once they have delivered the curriculum in the manner in which THEY (the teacher) see fit. Each individual teacher is an island when it comes to method of delivery and marking of the children in all aspects.

We must bear in mind that unlike the UK, being a funcionario, the teacher's job in state education in Spain is more or less a job for life, regardless of the students' results. They may get moved around, promoted, whatever (typical funcionario treatment) but hell will probably freeze over before anything is done to fire them from their post. One of our bugbears here is that aspect of bureacratic nonsense and given that in Galicia alone, there are over 150,000 funcionarios (not all teachers obviously) we have quite a few bugs to bear when anything official arises. 

I should make it clear though that we are quite happy with the set up where we are highly accountable for our own childrens' educational success and I feel quite strongly about the need for high parental input which is the case in any country, I would wager. My concern is that when you throw this kind of set up at a "problem" child, with a "problem" family background, the kid has no chance. And the teachers can, and often do, leave the child behind. AND NO CHILD SHOULD BE LEFT BEHIND!! This should of course not all be down to the teacher, but in my opinion, they should be the primary conduit (the school) as it is they who will pick up the "problem".


----------



## richie rich

Tallulah said:


> Pesky Wesky said:
> 
> 
> 
> No I mean the teachers. Those funcionarios. They are personal target driven and not at all student results driven. Therefore, many times during PTA type meetings, conversations have come up where it has been made ABUNDANTLY clear that the teachers' job is to deliver the goods (the curriculum) - the child's preparedness/stance/behaviour/willingness/home studying to top up as required, etc, is something that they will contribute to voluntarily if they wish, but it is the parents who ultimately must achieve this result with the child, once they have delivered the curriculum in the manner in which THEY (the teacher) see fit. Each individual teacher is an island when it comes to method of delivery and marking of the children in all aspects.
> 
> We must bear in mind that unlike the UK, being a funcionario, the teacher's job in state education in Spain is more or less a job for life, regardless of the students' results. They may get moved around, promoted, whatever (typical funcionario treatment) but hell will probably freeze over before anything is done to fire them from their post. One of our bugbears here is that aspect of bureacratic nonsense and given that in Galicia alone, there are over 150,000 funcionarios (not all teachers obviously) we have quite a few bugs to bear when anything official arises.
> 
> 
> 
> I love reading this stuff. As an outsider looking in I see several things:
> 1) that the Spanish Education system obviously wants to improve the standard of english in schools ( which is great)
> 2) they're going about it the wrong way which is having a fairly negative impact on teh students and the school environment
> 3) From everything I've read so far, it really seems like there are an almost ridiculous amount of opportunities if you're prepared to step outside the box.
> So please,....as someone looking to move down there, please keep this type of information coming
> ))))
Click to expand...


----------



## Pesky Wesky

Tallulah said:


> Pesky Wesky said:
> 
> 
> 
> No I mean the teachers. Those funcionarios. They are personal target driven and not at all student results driven. Therefore, many times during PTA type meetings, conversations have come up where it has been made ABUNDANTLY clear that the teachers' job is to deliver the goods (the curriculum) - the child's preparedness/stance/behaviour/willingness/home studying to top up as required, etc, is something that they will contribute to voluntarily if they wish, but it is the parents who ultimately must achieve this result with the child, once they have delivered the curriculum in the manner in which THEY (the teacher) see fit. Each individual teacher is an island when it comes to method of delivery and marking of the children in all aspects.
> 
> We must bear in mind that unlike the UK, being a funcionario, the teacher's job in state education in Spain is more or less a job for life, regardless of the students' results. They may get moved around, promoted, whatever (typical funcionario treatment) but hell will probably freeze over before anything is done to fire them from their post. One of our bugbears here is that aspect of bureacratic nonsense and given that in Galicia alone, there are over 150,000 funcionarios (not all teachers obviously) we have quite a few bugs to bear when anything official arises.
> 
> I should make it clear though that we are quite happy with the set up where we are highly accountable for our own childrens' educational success and I feel quite strongly about the need for high parental input which is the case in any country, I would wager. My concern is that when you throw this kind of set up at a "problem" child, with a "problem" family background, the kid has no chance. And the teachers can, and often do, leave the child behind. AND NO CHILD SHOULD BE LEFT BEHIND!! This should of course not all be down to the teacher, but in my opinion, they should be the primary conduit (the school) as it is they who will pick up the "problem".
> 
> 
> 
> NEWS FLASH!!
> Kitchen table just arrived! Will pick this up later on, OK?
Click to expand...


----------



## Tallulah

richie rich said:


> I love reading this stuff. As an outsider looking in I see several things:
> 1) that the Spanish Education system obviously wants to improve the standard of english in schools ( which is great)
> 2) they're going about it the wrong way which is having a fairly negative impact on teh students and the school environment
> 3) From everything I've read so far, it really seems like there are an almost ridiculous amount of opportunities if you're prepared to step outside the box.
> So please,....as someone looking to move down there, please keep this type of information coming
> ))))


Richie Rich,

It's a great source of information - not only do you have PW and XabiaChica (and Caz I commenting from a teaching point of view) but you'll see along with the rest of us (like Jojo and me and others) we are also expats in Spain, mothers with children going through various types of education (both state and private), some of us in autonomous communities with different systems - but ALL of us passionate about the education of our children!:clap2:

Regarding your point 3 - bear in mind that stepping outside the box in Spain might be rather more tricky than it first appear! That, if you meant opportunities in correcting the state's educational system, be it directly or via entrepreneurial alternatives!


----------



## richie rich

Tallulah said:


> Richie Rich,
> 
> It's a great source of information - not only do you have PW and XabiaChica (and Caz I commenting from a teaching point of view) but you'll see along with the rest of us (like Jojo and me and others) we are also expats in Spain, mothers with children going through various types of education (both state and private), some of us in autonomous communities with different systems - but ALL of us passionate about the education of our children!:clap2:
> 
> Regarding your point 3 - bear in mind that stepping outside the box in Spain might be rather more tricky than it first appear! That, if you meant opportunities in correcting the state's educational system, be it directly or via entrepreneurial alternatives!


HI Tal,
I didn't mean correcting the state's education system or anything like that,....I meant that with the school system the way it is, the opportunities for tutoring students on a one on one basis is astounding. Getting teh word out that as a teacher you're willing to do the one on one sessions might be difficult if you're not a natual 'salesperson' type, but if you are and really enjoy teaching I think teh opportunity to help the students and in some cases the parents is sky high...has anone thought of instead of doing a 1 on 1 with a student, actually doing a family class? A parent might be a bit aghast at paying 20 or 30 euros an hour for one child, but if they're included as well.......then the financial outlay doesn't seem as high. The benefits are that the students get better grades ( which all parents like) and the parents themselves actually get the chance to become involved in their child's education. How many times have our kids come home with some maths or physics homework and asked us for help but we can't because we simply don't know?
It's obvious that the Spanish govt wants to lift the level of english in Spain, so why not help them do it by running those type of tutorials so the parents get a sense of achievement as well.....just a thought


----------



## chris(madrid)

jojo said:


> No, Spain is Spain and you cant change the whle education of a country in a heart beat, its not fair on anyone


It is however politically possible.


----------



## SteveHall

It is quite simple. 

There are just not enough qualified and competent teachers to teach in English. 
The level of English of a lot of the Spanish teachers here is just not good enough. 
Teaching English as a foreign language is difficult enough for them and to teach, say, history would be a "un puente demasiado lejos" ...and, no, they would not know who was in the film or its historical significance. The Spanish weren't even in THAT war ..... they have had enough of their own! 

Crazy idea thought up by a funcionario.

Punto, final.


----------



## xabiaxica

SteveHall said:


> It is quite simple.
> 
> There are just not enough qualified and competent teachers to teach in English.
> The level of English of a lot of the Spanish teachers here is just not good enough.
> Teaching English as a foreign language is difficult enough for them and to teach, say, history would be a "un puente demasiado lejos" ...and, no, they would not know who was in the film or its historical significance. The Spanish weren't even in THAT war ..... they have had enough of their own!
> 
> Crazy idea thought up by a funcionario.
> 
> Punto, final.


so maybe people like me might actually get a job in a state school instead


which I'm sure isn't the intention


----------



## SteveHall

xabiachica said:


> so maybe people like me might actually get a job in a state school instead
> 
> 
> which I'm sure isn't the intention


Who knows? No se ganó Zamora en una hora.

Good luck


----------



## xabiaxica

SteveHall said:


> Who knows? No se ganó Zamora en una hora.
> 
> Good luck


who knows - last time I asked they told me I'd need to be fluent in valenciano..............................


----------



## Pesky Wesky

*Education in Spain*




Tallulah said:


> Pesky Wesky said:
> 
> 
> 
> No I mean the teachers. Those funcionarios. They are personal target driven and not at all student results driven. Therefore, many times during PTA type meetings, conversations have come up where it has been made ABUNDANTLY clear that the teachers' job is to deliver the goods (the curriculum) - the child's preparedness/stance/behaviour/willingness/home studying to top up as required, etc, is something that they will contribute to voluntarily if they wish, but it is the parents who ultimately must achieve this result with the child, once they have delivered the curriculum in the manner in which THEY (the teacher) see fit. Each individual teacher is an island when it comes to method of delivery and marking of the children in all aspects.
> 
> We must bear in mind that unlike the UK, being a funcionario, the teacher's job in state education in Spain is more or less a job for life, regardless of the students' results. They may get moved around, promoted, whatever (typical funcionario treatment) but hell will probably freeze over before anything is done to fire them from their post. One of our bugbears here is that aspect of bureacratic nonsense and given that in Galicia alone, there are over 150,000 funcionarios (not all teachers obviously) we have quite a few bugs to bear when anything official arises.
> 
> I should make it clear though that we are quite happy with the set up where we are highly accountable for our own childrens' educational success and I feel quite strongly about the need for high parental input which is the case in any country, I would wager. My concern is that when you throw this kind of set up at a "problem" child, with a "problem" family background, the kid has no chance. And the teachers can, and often do, leave the child behind. AND NO CHILD SHOULD BE LEFT BEHIND!! This should of course not all be down to the teacher, but in my opinion, they should be the primary conduit (the school) as it is they who will pick up the "problem".
> 
> 
> 
> WOW!
> That's one hell of a post Tally!!
> At first I was going to disagree somewhat, but you know what? You're right. This IS what happens in Spain. Teachers do what they want. They close the door of the classroom, no one observes them, they make up their own exams, and the rules of their class as they go along. They DO have to write a document at the beginning of each year saying what they're going to include in their year's teaching and I suppose it goes along with some guidelines somewhere along the lines. This is supposedly looked at by a school inspector at some point, but I've never known of a case where a teacher was picked up if this was not adhered to in the course of the year.
> As for students getting left behind. I suppose we all know of cases like a classmate of my daughter's when she was 7. His father was an alcoholic, his mother looked like she was a prostitute and he still soiled himself nearly everyday. How did the teacher deal with this? The boy was sent to the back of the class where he was out of the his way. He was abandoned at the age of 7.
> Even so, I don't think it's necessarily the teachers fault. I think, as I've said in other posts, it's the education system. It all revolves around numbers, grades, passing and failing and not what and how the children are learning. The teachers are just working in the system
> PS Don't forget OH is a teacher in state schools...
> PPS: I think, as Richie Rich says, this is useful if not entirely subjective(!) stuff. How about another thread/ sticky as it doesn't really belong here?
Click to expand...


----------



## chris(madrid)

SteveHall said:


> Crazy idea thought up by a _funcionario_.


_Politician_ I think is more likely - Which of course means it's perfectly OK.


----------



## Tallulah

Pesky Wesky said:


> Tallulah said:
> 
> 
> 
> WOW!
> That's one hell of a post Tally!!
> PS Don't forget OH is a teacher in state schools...
> PPS: I think, as Richie Rich says, this is useful if not entirely subjective(!) stuff. How about another thread/ sticky as it doesn't really belong here?
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, well it's good to talk now and again!
> 
> re PS - no I hadn't forgotten your OH is state school teacher.
> 
> re PPS - why doesn't it belong here? If for anything those wishing to become expats and teach here - albeit not in state schools or private schools or whatever - those that end up working for academies or as private tutors need to know how education systems work all over the country - where they'll perhaps be teaching children/picking up on those who are failing within those systems, who require extra tutoring?? It's still teaching isn't it??
Click to expand...


----------



## Pesky Wesky

Tallulah said:


> Pesky Wesky said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, well it's good to talk now and again!
> 
> re PS - no I hadn't forgotten your OH is state school teacher.
> 
> re PPS - why doesn't it belong here? If for anything those wishing to become expats and teach here - albeit not in state schools or private schools or whatever - those that end up working for academies or as private tutors need to know how education systems work all over the country - where they'll perhaps be teaching children/picking up on those who are failing within those systems, who require extra tutoring?? It's still teaching isn't it??
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, Yes, of course, it's just that this thread is called Teaching ENGLISH in Spain so I think only those concerned with the teaching of English will come here. These posts might be lost to those who want info about the education system in Spain in general...
> Another PS. OH is busy looking for a car as he's been given a placement miles away from where we live when of course the place he was at last year (which he could get to by public transport), has been given to someone else. The director of the school specifically requested that OH stay on as they were happy with him, but no way José!!
Click to expand...


----------



## Tallulah

Pesky Wesky said:


> Tallulah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, Yes, of course, it's just that this thread is called Teaching ENGLISH in Spain so I think only those concerned with the teaching of English will come here. These posts might be lost to those who want info about the education system in Spain in general...
> Another PS. OH is busy looking for a car as he's been given a placement miles away from where we live when of course the place he was at last year (which he could get to by public transport), has been given to someone else. The director of the school specifically requested that OH stay on as they were happy with him, but no way José!!
> 
> 
> 
> Yes I take your point PW....and after a long conversation with you, myself, XC, Steve and Chris commenting on this it is perhaps time to get back to topic, of course. However, it could also be seen as very valid information for those looking to teach English in Spain, as it is very pertinent to the clientele they are likely to face in the not too distant future and a world apart from corporate clients. Let's face it, kids who don't wanna be there, but parents wanting them to pass the asignatura (especially with the proposed reforms to teaching other subjects IN ENGLISH I might add) make for a not altogether easy client to teach. I believe this to be very relevant to those considering coming to Spain to teach English, believing their clients to be the eager beavers of yesteryear.
> 
> Hope you get OH's car sorted and when hubby gets sufficient points, he ends up with a permanent post nearer to home.
> 
> OK...:focus:
Click to expand...


----------



## Pesky Wesky

Tallulah said:


> Pesky Wesky said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hope you get OH's car sorted and when hubby gets sufficient points, he ends up with a permanent post nearer to home.
> 
> OK...:focus:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not to go on about it too much, OH is number 2 or 3 in the list for his speciality in Madrid and has been for a few years. He has points up the wazoooo. What they're not doing is offering permanent places. They're just giving out the same places year after year and not making them permanent. :frusty: :doh: :mmph:
Click to expand...


----------



## Pesky Wesky

*teaching English conference handouts*

Went to a British Council conference in Madrid on Saturday. I offered to get handouts for some forum members but as I can't attach them to PMs I'll post some here. 
The first is called Incorporating multiple intelligences in our daily lesson plans by Janice Taylor

View attachment 1246


----------



## Pesky Wesky

Second, Connecting pronunciation and grammar by Mark Hancock

View attachment 1247


----------



## Pesky Wesky

Thirdly Using Youtube for listening by Ronan Tolle which in fact is a revision of how to do a listening in class and at the end talks about how to link youtube to an interactive whiteboard

View attachment 1250


----------



## xabiaxica

Pesky Wesky said:


> Thirdly Using Youtube for listening by Ronan Tolle which in fact is a revision of how to do a listening in class and at the end talks about how to link youtube to an interactive whiteboard
> 
> View attachment 1250


:clap2:
thanks PW - I'll have a look & download them later


----------



## Caz.I

Yes, thanks for that Pesky. Just started back at the school today so your timing is excellent.


----------



## Pesky Wesky

:bounceo you realise this thread has had _*4,000 views*_!!??:whoo:

This thread is on:flame:fire!!


We've talked about:

Teaching children
qualifications needed
Bi lingual education
job availability and websites
PGCE in Spain
Classroom assistants
timetables
pay
Thank you fellow posters!!!:hug: 

Anything else to add????????

I think things should calm down a bit now that the school year has started, 

but I'd love to hear more from English teachers or wanna be teachers in Spain and all the others who have an opinion:bounce:


----------



## elearning

Pesky Wesky said:


> For example if somebody is dividing up what to take to a party you can say "Put me down for the beer and crisps" So how do you explain "We had to have our cat put down"??


Man that's a funny example. I'm not planning to teach online, so don't put me down for anything, but I really thought that was funny.

(I guess the cat would bring the dip?)


----------



## Pesky Wesky

elearning said:


> Man that's a funny example. I'm not planning to teach online, so don't put me down for anything, but I really thought that was funny.
> 
> (I guess the cat would bring the dip?)


What???????????

The idea behind the example was that a student might learn *put down *as write on a list and then be confused with *put down* meaning to kill an animal humanly...

But what has totally confused me is *I'm not planning to teach online*...


----------



## Xose

Pesky Wesky said:


> What???????????
> 
> The idea behind the example was that a student might learn *put down *as write on a list and then be confused with *put down* meaning to kill an animal humanly...
> 
> But what has totally confused me is *I'm not planning to teach online*...


PW,
Check the name out. Elearning is not planning to teach Spanish - online - his business I would guess, and a great plug. Which reminds me, there's another form of "put down" isn't there?

Xose
P.S. congratulations on the longest thread in Forum History.:clap2:


----------



## Pesky Wesky

Xose said:


> PW,
> Check the name out. Elearning is not planning to teach Spanish - online - his business I would guess, and a great plug. Which reminds me, there's another form of "put down" isn't there?
> 
> Xose
> P.S. congratulations on the longest thread in Forum History.:clap2:


 Yes, there is xose!!


----------



## elearning

I'm not sure why Xose felt a "put down" was in order, but I got the message the first time, which is why I thought it was pretty funny. Sometimes you just don't realize how things can REALLY get lost in translation (this thread, for example.)

Man, one more reason why you need to find a terrific site with VOIP software to communicate. ;p.

And yeah, it's a plug... eventually (an extremely well-targeted one, though.) But I really thought it was pretty clever example.

And sorry about the confusion. One slip of a word.
(...but I do think you should put the cat down for some dip, FWIW.)


----------



## Pesky Wesky

elearning said:


> I'm not sure why Xose felt a "put down" was in order, but I got the message the first time, which is why I thought it was pretty funny. Sometimes you just don't realize how things can REALLY get lost in translation (this thread, for example.)
> 
> Man, one more reason why you need to find a terrific site with VOIP software to communicate. ;p.
> 
> And yeah, it's a plug... eventually (an extremely well-targeted one, though.) But I really thought it was pretty clever example.
> 
> And sorry about the confusion. One slip of a word.
> (...but I do think you should put the cat down for some dip, FWIW.)


OK, sorry,  thought you were being sarcastic.
You're going to have to stop plugging yourself though otherwise you're get nuked by the mods.
Ps The cat's been put down, so I can't put it down for the dip! Haha


----------



## elearning

Pesky Wesky said:


> OK, sorry,  thought you were being sarcastic.
> You're going to have to stop plugging yourself though otherwise you're get nuked by the mods.
> Ps The cat's been put down, so I can't put it down for the dip! Haha


It really wasn't a plug. I really do need to learn how people are interacting currently with training, and how people are adapting to a new environment. This thread was what I found. I'm seeing a certain disdain toward software, and I'm trying to figure out if this is common, and if it's substantiated. Thanks though.


----------



## Pesky Wesky

elearning said:


> It really wasn't a plug. I really do need to learn how people are interacting currently with training, and how people are adapting to a new environment. This thread was what I found. I'm seeing a certain disdain toward software, and I'm trying to figure out if this is common, and if it's substantiated. Thanks though.


 
No distain intended, really!

Some companies install multimedia language packs, but they can be expensive and the students tend to prefer "real" teachers. That's been my experience anyway.
Individual students might buy something like "Tell me more" cdroms, but are more likely to download smth from internet.


----------



## jojo

Pesky Wesky said:


> OK, sorry,  thought you were being sarcastic.
> You're going to have to stop plugging yourself though otherwise you're get nuked by the mods.
> Ps The cat's been put down, so I can't put it down for the dip! Haha


Fortunately, any plugs here have been too cryptic and have been wasted on me so far!!!

Jo xxxx


----------



## Pesky Wesky

This is a very informative video about teacher recruitment in Madrid; Do you need a TEFL qualification, what makes a good teacher...?


----------



## Pesky Wesky

The main purpose of this post is to have a laugh :thumb: at this classic scene with Steve Martin. I've watched it many times and it always makes me chuckle, and I've sent to loads of students and they appreciate the scene from both points of view.

youtube steve martin english - Google Videos

But I think I should also include in this post the "doom and gloom" report that is becoming the norm when talking about Spain.  Job offers are definitely down this academic year. (I think I included this in another post, but I can't find it so sorry if I'm repeating myself) Now, for a new on the scene teacher this could be an advantage or disadvantage; depends how the academies mind works. An inexperienced teacher is probably cheaper than an experienced teacher so perhaps there'll be more places for new teachers... There are less openings in companies though because obviously langage training is often a "luxury " for employees.
Another thing which perhaps isn't clear from previous posts is that you may end up working in several different places perhaps in an academy in the evenings and topping up your salary in the morning with private classes. It may include more running about but it gives you lots of different experience.
I know of two teachers coming over in November so hope to get lots of news about them on here.
Great to speak to you Richie Rich by the way and hope to :tea: meet up soon!


----------



## Tallulah

:clap2:hilarious, PW!! I've had a few surreptitious giggles, teaching pronounciation!!:lol:

Don't know why, but put me in mind of the following clip :


----------



## Pesky Wesky

Tallulah said:


> :clap2:hilarious, PW!! I've had a few surreptitious giggles, teaching pronounciation!!:lol:
> 
> Don't know why, but put me in mind of the following clip :


Very funny Tallulah! :lol:  
Have just sent it to my company students so they can start the weekend with a smile. 
Thanks!!


----------



## Pesky Wesky

Pesky Wesky said:


> :bounceo you realise this thread has had _*4,000 views*_!!??:whoo:
> 
> This thread is on:flame:fire!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We've talked about:
> 
> Teaching children
> qualifications needed
> Bi lingual education
> job availability and websites
> PGCE in Spain
> Classroom assistants
> timetables
> pay
> Thank you fellow posters!!!:hug:
> 
> Anything else to add????????
> 
> I think things should calm down a bit now that the school year has started,
> 
> but I'd love to hear more from English teachers or wanna be teachers in Spain and all the others who have an opinion:bounce:


OK, I wrote this on the 30th of September. It's now 23rd of Oct, less than a month on, and there's been another 1,000 hits clap2:!!:nod which suggests that there's a lot of interest in this topic. 
*BUT* 
it won't be very interesting if people don't make posts and don't keep it up to date so *POST* those comments, info, suggestions, advice, annecdotes, your experiences etc etc, negative or positive, or it'll just get as :yawn: boring as ...as... living in the UK!!!!! :sad: God forbid


----------



## Motley

I managed to read the entire thread last night and decided to join the forum!

I find the level of spoken English in my part of Spain to be very low. 

I have met many Spaniards who when asked what 'manzana' is in English say apple with the 'a' pronounced as it's NAME. When I point out that the 'a' in apple is pronounced like the 'a' in cat they are horrified. 
Many have learnt English for a considerable number of years and feel let down by a system that allows this type of error to occur.

As an English teacher here, there are plenty of challenges when teaching listening and speaking skills!


----------



## Tallulah

Motley said:


> I managed to read the entire thread last night and decided to join the forum!
> 
> I find the level of spoken English in my part of Spain to be very low.
> 
> I have met many Spaniards who when asked what 'manzana' is in English say apple with the 'a' pronounced as it's NAME. When I point out that the 'a' in apple is pronounced like the 'a' in cat they are horrified.
> Many have learnt English for a considerable number of years and feel let down by a system that allows this type of error to occur.
> 
> As an English teacher here, there are plenty of challenges when teaching listening and speaking skills!


Hi Motley and welcome to the forum! 

Yes, pronounciation is a bugbear for a lot of us here, I'm afraid. Having three children in school here, it's particularly noticeable when they attend English lessons (and rather embarrassing when they've had to correct their own English teachers...although their latest teacher appears to welcome it and asks them to read a lot of exercises out in class in order for the other children to hear how it should be pronounced). The bad news is that it is down to us to ensure that they maintain levels, or they'll never progress. My OH's niece had the "A-pple" situation when they returned to the Canaries after living in London for many years....and she ended up teaching English for a while as well. It really depends I think where you are in Spain and the quality/experiences of the Spanish teachers who are teaching English. I'm afraid that the English teacher mine had in primary I think was just given the task of teaching English and recently did a course. But that was it. 

Looking forward to your contributions.

Tallulah.x


----------



## Pesky Wesky

Motley said:


> I managed to read the entire thread last night and decided to join the forum!
> 
> I find the level of spoken English in my part of Spain to be very low.
> 
> I have met many Spaniards who when asked what 'manzana' is in English say apple with the 'a' pronounced as it's NAME. When I point out that the 'a' in apple is pronounced like the 'a' in cat they are horrified.
> Many have learnt English for a considerable number of years and feel let down by a system that allows this type of error to occur.
> 
> As an English teacher here, there are plenty of challenges when teaching listening and speaking skills!


 
Hi Motley and congratulations on joining the forum 
You'd have been better reading the thread tonight as there's an extra hour!!
I agree with what you say about Spaniards feeling "cheated" after spending so many hours of their life supposedly learning English to find that when they're let loose in the real world they can't communicate . Although I think most assume that they're not going to learn English at school, which is a bit sad really. I think things have improved a little. In the time that I've been here the standard has gone up slightly - there few genuine beginners nowadays for example. Although if i think about the teachers my daughter has had and what other forum members say about English in school...The idea of making education bi lingual in state schools is a good one, but not likely to have any success for the first 5, 10 (??)years judging by the way it's being implemented.:tongue1:
Any way, it would be interesting to know how you got your present job, what you think of the level of your students in general, the teaching that you're doing etc.
P.S. I suppose the third person "S" is a lost cause with Andalucian students and their habit of not ending words...


----------



## jojo

sorry to butt in, but I was chatting to my neighbour earlier and she is an english teacher in a spanish school. She was saying that Most spanish children pick an awful lot of the english language up from pop music and UK/USA films before and during any formal education. In fact she uses those mediums to help teach the language. In her opinion, thats why the Spanish tend to be better at English than we are at Spanish!!??

Just thought I'd stick that in !!! Welcome to the forum Motely 


Jo xxx


----------



## Caroline01

*Hi job hunt*

Hi Im Caroline, 
And Ideally Im looking for work with children, babies, anything remotely related as Im an NNEB in Nursery nursing, National BTEC in child care, NVQ3 in play work, TEFL in teaching english as a foreign language, but I dont have a degree, and Im looking for work before I go. I have a great deal of experience in holiday company work but most of them are closing now due to their end of seasons. I have signed up with a nanny agency but ideally want a more social team work role. I dont know a great deal of Spanish, I 28 and eager to try anything. Any help or advice would be really acppreicated. Caroline01


----------



## jojo

Caroline01 said:


> Hi Im Caroline,
> And Ideally Im looking for work with children, babies, anything remotely related as Im an NNEB in Nursery nursing, National BTEC in child care, NVQ3 in play work, TEFL in teaching english as a foreign language, but I dont have a degree, and Im looking for work before I go. I have a great deal of experience in holiday company work but most of them are closing now due to their end of seasons. I have signed up with a nanny agency but ideally want a more social team work role. I dont know a great deal of Spanish, I 28 and eager to try anything. Any help or advice would be really acppreicated. Caroline01



Au pair work springs to mind, that way you get to learn the language and you get board and lodging. You may also meet other au pairs as you are obliged to go for Spanish lessons (well thats how it works in the UK) and it may get you "in"????Or of course nanny work within a British family, altho you'll get paid better than au pair work, you probably wont find anything as easy, but if you're on with angencies, you never know ?? I dont think your qualifications will count for much in a nursery/school invironment without the ability to speak and write fluent Spanish?? Most British families who bring their young children over, put them into Spanish speaking nurseries etc to emmerse then in the language early! 

Good luck tho

Jo xxx


----------



## Motley

Thanks Tallulah for the welcome.
It's good when a Spanish teacher of English welcomes the advantage of having native speakers in class. That unfortunately is not always the case. I have heard of some nasty experiences where British children having questioned or corrected a teacher's pronunciation and then suffered for the rest of their time with that teacher.
I wish more teachers were in it for the love of teaching rather than seeing it only as a job.
I currently teach 2 future primary school teachers of English and my challenge is to improve their pronunciation and for them to learn the phonetic alphabet.


----------



## Motley

Thanks for the welcome jojo.
I have a Spanish friend whose daughter loves to sing and dance and she spends her free time listening to pop music. She has expanded her vocabulary that way.

I find it frustrating that for many parents it's all about passing the 'control's that the teacher sets. I have to spend a lot of time going over the course books which basically bores my students. 
I want the children I teach to go to secondary school with a very firm English language base that will help them for the rest of their lives. I teach them to use the English alphabet as a tool as well as using it in order, to use a monolingual English dictionary, to know ordinal and cardinal numbers and in 5th and 6th year I teach them the phonetic alphabet. This is only possible as they are keen to learn and my classes contain a maximum of 4 children. 
I appreciate in the Spanish school the teachers cannot do what I do even if they want to.


----------



## Motley

Thanks for the welcome Pesky Wesky.
I am self-employed so set my own timetable and use my methods. I would hate to work for anyone else now although the admin involved, the paying of Social Security etc are the unwelcome side of teaching!
I am very strict (in a nice way) about pronunciation, spelling (English and Spanish) and manners! I am constantly going on about the final 's' especially in 3rd person singular in the present tense. I won't give up! I wiill often praise some reading but add I would have liked to have heard the word endings! 
This term I'm overwhelmed with classes although too many of them are 'one to one'. Still, in recession it's wonderful to be in demand so I'll just have manage my time better to give me quality free time.
Off to finish cleaning my study/classroom!
Sheila


----------



## HighExposure

*American Living/Working in Barca*



Hi all, 

I am currently living in Barcelona and am teaching English, and thought I'd share my experiences with you all. First, I was a bit uneasy making the physical move to Spain because I had only a one-way ticket into Spain and four massive suitcases (what can I say, I'm a girl). To my surprise, I wasn't questioned much by the attendants at the flight desk (as it appears that they also aren't too familiar with Spanish policies on immigration). They did not ask me to purchase a return ticket out of Spain -- as I know has been the case for other people -- but just asked to see my credit card instead and everything was a-OKAY! 

Second. I started first at a hostel (one that I've been to and trust, obviously, and can recommend to you should you follow similar procedures) and slowly found an apartment / job. I've been living here for six weeks now and am quite comfortable. I work at a private language school and with both children and adults. The pay is OK, but is nothing compared to the pay you could get working at a public school -- for which I have also interviewed but when they discovered I was American they immediately lost interest. Americans can work in Spain but don't expect any thing fancy. In fact, I work with three or four other Americans. We all work under the table, even the Irish and English who can legally demand the school provide them with contracts and benefits. 

But there are difficulties here. For instance, because I am American I can't open a normal checking account. Rather, I am forced to open a "Tourist" account (at least with la Caixa) and that's a fiver every month. Moreover, I started with Vodafone which has turned out to be a poor choice because they too have a new policy that requires all contract members be holders of EU passport (topping up is so expensive I'm spending 10 a week). But I can take my friend's passport and still get myself a contract it's just a hassle. Always a hassle!

As I'm sure most are already aware - Anuncios Gratis, Anuncios Clasificados | LoQUo.com has been heaven for me. I found both my apartment, job, volunteering opps, Spanish-English groups, and so on through this site. 

Finally, I guess the social aspect -- I think it's easy meeting people in Barcelona. People are friendly and eager to make new friends (and of course practice their English). I moved here knowing absolutely not a single person. And I have tons of friends now  

Sooo finally, finally, finally. If anyone has any questions about anything please send me a PM - if you reply I might not be able to read and respond. I'd like to help as much as possible. Also, I know quite a bit about working permits and visas so if you have any Qs in that area, please ask. I have done a fair amount of research prior to my move as I did not want to work illegally but it's actually easier this way (for short term, that is).

Ok! Hope this helps!!! Besos!!!


----------



## jojo

HighExposure said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I am currently living in Barcelona and am teaching English, and thought I'd share my experiences with you all. First, I was a bit uneasy making the physical move to Spain because I had only a one-way ticket into Spain and four massive suitcases (what can I say, I'm a girl). To my surprise, I wasn't questioned much by the attendants at the flight desk (as it appears that they also aren't too familiar with Spanish policies on immigration). They did not ask me to purchase a return ticket out of Spain -- as I know has been the case for other people -- but just asked to see my credit card instead and everything was a-OKAY!
> 
> Second. I started first at a hostel (one that I've been to and trust, obviously, and can recommend to you should you follow similar procedures) and slowly found an apartment / job. I've been living here for six weeks now and am quite comfortable. I work at a private language school and with both children and adults. The pay is OK, but is nothing compared to the pay you could get working at a public school -- for which I have also interviewed but when they discovered I was American they immediately lost interest. Americans can work in Spain but don't expect any thing fancy. In fact, I work with three or four other Americans. We all work under the table, even the Irish and English who can legally demand the school provide them with contracts and benefits.
> 
> But there are difficulties here. For instance, because I am American I can't open a normal checking account. Rather, I am forced to open a "Tourist" account (at least with la Caixa) and that's a fiver every month. Moreover, I started with Vodafone which has turned out to be a poor choice because they too have a new policy that requires all contract members be holders of EU passport (topping up is so expensive I'm spending 10 a week). But I can take my friend's passport and still get myself a contract it's just a hassle. Always a hassle!
> 
> As I'm sure most are already aware - Anuncios Gratis, Anuncios Clasificados | LoQUo.com has been heaven for me. I found both my apartment, job, volunteering opps, Spanish-English groups, and so on through this site.
> 
> Finally, I guess the social aspect -- I think it's easy meeting people in Barcelona. People are friendly and eager to make new friends (and of course practice their English). I moved here knowing absolutely not a single person. And I have tons of friends now
> 
> Sooo finally, finally, finally. If anyone has any questions about anything please send me a PM - if you reply I might not be able to read and respond. I'd like to help as much as possible. Also, I know quite a bit about working permits and visas so if you have any Qs in that area, please ask. I have done a fair amount of research prior to my move as I did not want to work illegally but it's actually easier this way (for short term, that is).
> 
> Ok! Hope this helps!!! Besos!!!


Well thanks for the info - its always interesting to hear stories once people arrive and "happy endings" at that!! Altho I guess as a public forum we cannot condone the illegal nature of you being here!

I know you've asked for people to PM you for any advise and yes, to a point thats fine, but I'd much prefer people to ask and talk on the forum, then I stand a chance of learning things too as do other visitors. That said, again the forum cant reccommend that you openly advise on illegal entry into Spain.. I'm sure you understand LOL

Jo xxxx



Jo xxx


----------



## Pesky Wesky

HighExposure said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I am currently living in Barcelona and am teaching English, and thought I'd share my experiences with you all. As I'm sure most are already aware - Anuncios Gratis, Anuncios Clasificados | LoQUo.com has been heaven for me. I found both my apartment, job, volunteering opps, Spanish-English groups, and so on through this site.
> 
> 
> Sooo finally, finally, finally. If anyone has any questions about anything please send me a PM - if you reply I might not be able to read and respond. I'd like to help as much as possible. Also, I know quite a bit about working permits and visas so if you have any Qs in that area, please ask. I have done a fair amount of research prior to my move as I did not want to work illegally but it's actually easier this way (for short term, that is).
> 
> Ok! Hope this helps!!! Besos!!!


Many thanks for your input HighExposure!!

Your story is interesting because it's not the run of the mill story for this forum ie working without papers and being American, although I suppose there are plenty of "you" out there!!:tongue1: There was an American on here a few days ago asking about visas....

As you say, this might be the best way for the short term, but usually if people stay around they end up getting their papers sooner or later. 

Thanks for the link to LoQuo, it's not been given before and it's true it does have quite a few teaching jobs on it.

Anyway, enjoy your time in Barcelona!


----------



## Pesky Wesky

Caroline01 said:


> Hi Im Caroline,
> And Ideally Im looking for work with children, babies, anything remotely related as Im an NNEB in Nursery nursing, National BTEC in child care, NVQ3 in play work, TEFL in teaching english as a foreign language, but I dont have a degree, and Im looking for work before I go. I have a great deal of experience in holiday company work but most of them are closing now due to their end of seasons. I have signed up with a nanny agency but ideally want a more social team work role. I dont know a great deal of Spanish, I 28 and eager to try anything. Any help or advice would be really acppreicated. Caroline01


 
I think the best sites for TEFL jobs are the ones that are given earlier on in the thread tefl.com, madridteacher.com, Richard harrison etc. Also local press, freebie newspapers sometimes, and English Language bookshops or Irish pubs often have notice boards


----------



## Pesky Wesky

jojo said:


> ... She was saying that Most spanish children pick an awful lot of the english language up from pop music and UK/USA films before and during any formal education. In fact she uses those mediums to help teach the language. In her opinion, thats why the Spanish tend to be better at English than we are at Spanish!!??
> 
> Jo xxx


Yes, I think most teachers use films and songs in their classes when they can, especially with younger students, although I usually do a song about once a month with in my company classes and as far as the students are concerned we could do one every day!!
There are pitfalls though - there's a lot of "wierd" English in songs, and stuff that just make sense, but just sounds good. From *I ain't got nothing for my baby* to *Snap on you wet boots, And now eat all you mushrooms *!! This doesn't seem to happen in Spanish lang. songs

Especially for Jo, even though this is the "teaching English" thread, here are some links to some songs in Spanish with subtitles, so you can practice your language skills!


----------



## jojo

Pesky Wesky said:


> Yes, I think most teachers use films and songs in their classes when they can, especially with younger students, although I usually do a song about once a month with in my company classes and as far as the students are concerned we could do one every day!!
> There are pitfalls though - there's a lot of "wierd" English in songs, and stuff that just make sense, but just sounds good. From *I ain't got nothing for my baby* to *Snap on you wet boots, And now eat all you mushrooms *!! This doesn't seem to happen in Spanish lang. songs
> 
> Especially for Jo, even though this is the "teaching English" thread, here are some links to some songs in Spanish with subtitles, so you can practice your language skills!
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e00axXZX18c&feature=related
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bkzVZiiv9PI&feature=related
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pac2rLRsVXk&feature=related
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rEf-iuPmIww



Well I dunno about learning spanish but those had me dancing around my sitting room with my broom, so they helped with the sweeping lol!!!

Jo xxx


----------



## Pesky Wesky

*teaching jobs*

Are things looking up on the job front??
Yesterday I started the day with an impromptu meeting and an offer of 6 hours of classes instead of 3 in the company and also possible intensive weekend courses :clap2: . Got home and had two phone calls about classes and an email. Today an email about a translation and another email about a fulltime job!! Don't worry, I can only do the first lot of classes, :tongue1: but interesting after months of hearing nothing when the norm is to have phone calls or mails every week if not every day.


----------



## thurgauer

Hi everyone, 

I arrived in Barcelona from Australia about a month ago. The first two weeks I didn't really go looking for work. I was more interested in getting my bearings and taking some time out after my last job. I had been working and studying full time. I also organised my NIE during the first week. The third week I started looking for work. The first place I headed to was Loquo and I sent in my CV to a few places but there were few responses. I also walked all over town to deliver my CV in person to various schools. All of them said the same thing that there is nothing at the moment but there might be something in January. Last week I got called in for an interview by one of the schools that had advertised on Loquo and by the end of last week they told me that I had the job. 

I have to admit I did panic a bit when I didn't get any responses after sending in my CV. Then again when you look at how many people have looked at a job offer I guess it is not surprising that you don't always get an answer. Of course hearing and reading about the crisis over here made me a bit nervous as well. 

I made sure that I had enough money before coming over and I would recommend that someone make sure that they have enough money to see them through while they are looking for a job. I also had a Plan B just in case things didn't work out. If you can do that then you will less pressured. 

I think Loquo is a great place to look as well as the other sites that have been mentioned on here. However, I also believe that it is a good idea to do the rounds and drop off your CV. That is what I have always done when looking for work whether here in Europe or in Australia. I think it shows that you are serious and willing to make the effort to go looking for something and it does make you stand out from the crowd. There is a site Lingo Bongo where you pay €10 and you can send out your CV to every school here in Barcelona. The link is: LingoBongo - private classes, language exchanges, teaching jobs, cv sender and social events in Madrid, Barcelona and Berlin. Although I was tempted to do it in the end I decided not to because it is impersonal and I figure schools get loads of unsolicited emails and many of them probably end up in the garbage. 

Overall my advise to anyone thinking of coming here is do it but make sure you have plenty of money to see you through and also make sure you have a plan B in case things don't work out as expected. It is also very helpful to have a t least a working knowledge of Spanish. It will make the transition over here and the job search much easier. The other thing you can do is just put up fliers advertising your availability as an English teacher. 

If you have any questions feel free to drop me a message and I will get back to you. As Pesky Wesky says there seems to be more teaching work out there again.


----------



## oisinmac

*teaching*

i've heard that teaching work is very sparse these days in Spain, a friend of mine lost her job and now works in an office as she can't find any teaching work, and she's good!!


----------



## thurgauer

Hi Oisin, 

you're right teaching work seems to be a bit thin on the ground at the moment and those of us with a European passport can always fall back on office work. That is something I would have done as well if I hadn't found this job.


----------



## Pesky Wesky

thurgauer said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> I arrived in Barcelona from Australia about a month ago. The first two weeks I didn't really go looking for work. I was more interested in getting my bearings and taking some time out after my last job. I had been working and studying full time. I also organised my NIE during the first week. The third week I started looking for work. The first place I headed to was Loquo and I sent in my CV to a few places but there were few responses. I also walked all over town to deliver my CV in person to various schools. All of them said the same thing that there is nothing at the moment but there might be something in January. Last week I got called in for an interview by one of the schools that had advertised on Loquo and by the end of last week they told me that I had the job.
> 
> I have to admit I did panic a bit when I didn't get any responses after sending in my CV. Then again when you look at how many people have looked at a job offer I guess it is not surprising that you don't always get an answer. Of course hearing and reading about the crisis over here made me a bit nervous as well.
> 
> I made sure that I had enough money before coming over and I would recommend that someone make sure that they have enough money to see them through while they are looking for a job. I also had a Plan B just in case things didn't work out. If you can do that then you will less pressured.
> 
> I think Loquo is a great place to look as well as the other sites that have been mentioned on here. However, I also believe that it is a good idea to do the rounds and drop off your CV. That is what I have always done when looking for work whether here in Europe or in Australia. I think it shows that you are serious and willing to make the effort to go looking for something and it does make you stand out from the crowd. There is a site Lingo Bongo where you pay €10 and you can send out your CV to every school here in Barcelona. The link is: LingoBongo - private classes, language exchanges, teaching jobs, cv sender and social events in Madrid, Barcelona and Berlin. Although I was tempted to do it in the end I decided not to because it is impersonal and I figure schools get loads of unsolicited emails and many of them probably end up in the garbage.
> 
> Overall my advise to anyone thinking of coming here is do it but make sure you have plenty of money to see you through and also make sure you have a plan B in case things don't work out as expected. It is also very helpful to have a t least a working knowledge of Spanish. It will make the transition over here and the job search much easier. The other thing you can do is just put up fliers advertising your availability as an English teacher.
> 
> If you have any questions feel free to drop me a message and I will get back to you. As Pesky Wesky says there seems to be more teaching work out there again.


Thanks for the info; for giving back some of what you got out of the thread  and good to hear that you're working. Congratulations!


----------



## Pesky Wesky

oisinmac said:


> i've heard that teaching work is very sparse these days in Spain, a friend of mine lost her job and now works in an office as she can't find any teaching work, and she's good!!


Well, as there's 20%  unemployment at the moment in Spain it's hardly surprising that some English teachers have fallen by the wayside!! I noticed more offers start to come in a few days ago and they've continued to come, but I am near Madrid and have an ad on internet...


----------



## thurgauer

Thanks for that Pesky. It is good to be working. It's always good to give something back and I'm happy to answer any questions that people might have.


----------



## foolingyoo

*Working Holiday as a foot in the door*

Hi

I have plans to move to Barcelona next year, with the intention of developing a medium to long term career in Spain teaching English. Next year a working holiday visa agreement between New Zealand and Spain will come into effect, it has a few restrictions placed on it which I would like some opinions on there implications on finding a way to stay in Spain for more than the one year the visa will be valid for.

Out of the one year which i am allowed to stay in Spain for, I will only be allowed to work for 6 months, however only for three months at one employer. 

What i was originally planning on doing was spending 6 months at the one employer, with the hope that id prove myself such an excellent teacher that they would be willing to sponsor me for a visa for the following academic year. Is there any way around this that anyone could think of where I could somehow stay working at the same place for more than the three months, gaining experience within the company.

Overall i was wondering if anyone had any thoughts or opinions on how i could find a way to stay and work in spain for more than one year, considering the following:

*I can work for 6 months out of the 12 of my visa
*I can only Work for one employer for a maximum of 3 months

I would also like some thoughts on how to, and how easy it will be to find work on this visa. I am planning on starting my job search in September.

Im sure this is uncharted territory for everyone as the legislation hasn't been given final approval by the Spainsh government (My research has shown its been approved by all the sub comities however). But any thoughts that could help me make a plan for a long term move to barcelona/Spain using this visa as a foot in the door would be appreciated


----------



## jojo

foolingyoo said:


> Hi
> 
> I have plans to move to Barcelona next year, with the intention of developing a medium to long term career in Spain teaching English. Next year a working holiday visa agreement between New Zealand and Spain will come into effect, it has a few restrictions placed on it which I would like some opinions on there implications on finding a way to stay in Spain for more than the one year the visa will be valid for.
> 
> Out of the one year which i am allowed to stay in Spain for, I will only be allowed to work for 6 months, however only for three months at one employer.
> 
> What i was originally planning on doing was spending 6 months at the one employer, with the hope that id prove myself such an excellent teacher that they would be willing to sponsor me for a visa for the following academic year. Is there any way around this that anyone could think of where I could somehow stay working at the same place for more than the three months, gaining experience within the company.
> 
> Overall i was wondering if anyone had any thoughts or opinions on how i could find a way to stay and work in spain for more than one year, considering the following:
> 
> *I can work for 6 months out of the 12 of my visa
> *I can only Work for one employer for a maximum of 3 months
> 
> I would also like some thoughts on how to, and how easy it will be to find work on this visa. I am planning on starting my job search in September.
> 
> Im sure this is uncharted territory for everyone as the legislation hasn't been given final approval by the Spainsh government (My research has shown its been approved by all the sub comities however). But any thoughts that could help me make a plan for a long term move to barcelona/Spain using this visa as a foot in the door would be appreciated



First of hi. 

Are we right to assume that you speak and write Spanish and are adequately qualified to teach?

I dont know too much about Barcelona, apart from its beautiful, cosmopolitan and expensive. Also Barcelona is one region who try to hang on to their own language of catalan, so you may find that should be taken into account??

Spain in general has serious unemployment. What I suggest you do is have a look thru this thread and see whats been said previously, I think Barcelona has been covered, but also there maybe some links to sites that could help you

Jo xxx


----------



## Pesky Wesky

foolingyoo said:


> Hi
> 
> I have plans to move to Barcelona next year, with the intention of developing a medium to long term career in Spain teaching English. Next year a working holiday visa agreement between New Zealand and Spain will come into effect, it has a few restrictions placed on it which I would like some opinions on there implications on finding a way to stay in Spain for more than the one year the visa will be valid for.
> 
> Out of the one year which i am allowed to stay in Spain for, I will only be allowed to work for 6 months, however only for three months at one employer.
> 
> What i was originally planning on doing was spending 6 months at the one employer, with the hope that id prove myself such an excellent teacher that they would be willing to sponsor me for a visa for the following academic year. Is there any way around this that anyone could think of where I could somehow stay working at the same place for more than the three months, gaining experience within the company.
> 
> Overall i was wondering if anyone had any thoughts or opinions on how i could find a way to stay and work in spain for more than one year, considering the following:
> 
> *I can work for 6 months out of the 12 of my visa
> *I can only Work for one employer for a maximum of 3 months
> 
> I would also like some thoughts on how to, and how easy it will be to find work on this visa. I am planning on starting my job search in September.
> 
> Im sure this is uncharted territory for everyone as the legislation hasn't been given final approval by the Spainsh government (My research has shown its been approved by all the sub comities however). But any thoughts that could help me make a plan for a long term move to barcelona/Spain using this visa as a foot in the door would be appreciated


Hi there foolingyoo,
you know, the more I read your post the less I understand  what the deal is. You can come to Spain for a year, but you can only work for 6 months and for those 6 months you'll have to work for at least 2 different employers, is that right??
If that's how it stands I would say it's a near impossible situation. Why would anybody employ a teacher for 3 months? It seems to me that the Spanish New Zealand agreement is going to be very difficult to put into practice and that somebody is _*foolingyoo*_ somewhere.
Sorry, but can't see this in a positive light


----------



## Stravinsky

jojo said:


> First of hi.
> 
> Are we right to assume that you speak and write Spanish and are adequately qualified to teach?


I wont be "Spanish" he'll need to be able to speak in Barcelona 
The most useful will be Catalan, which loosely described is a cross between Spanish & French


----------



## foolingyoo

Yes, it is a strange situation where i am only allowed to work for 6 months with 2 different employers, governments can never make things easy. It just seems like this is the only option at the moment for getting to spain for an extended period at the moment, without shelling out 1000's of euros for a course getting me a student visa.

With regards to the Spanish/Catalan debate, i have catalan friends in Barcelona and have spoken to lots of them, including their friends about this for hours, as it was something i was worried about. Knowing only Spanish is perfectly acceptable to live and work in Barcelona. Yes Catalan is spoken a lot but you are able to survive absolutely fine without it. 

cheers for your advice 

p.s. i do have an intermediate grasp of Spanish, and will have a teaching qualification before i leave


----------



## jojo

foolingyoo said:


> Yes, it is a strange situation where i am only allowed to work for 6 months with 2 different employers, governments can never make things easy. It just seems like this is the only option at the moment for getting to spain for an extended period at the moment, without shelling out 1000's of euros for a course getting me a student visa.
> 
> With regards to the Spanish/Catalan debate, i have catalan friends in Barcelona and have spoken to lots of them, including their friends about this for hours, as it was something i was worried about. Knowing only Spanish is perfectly acceptable to live and work in Barcelona. Yes Catalan is spoken a lot but you are able to survive absolutely fine without it.
> 
> cheers for your advice
> 
> p.s. i do have an intermediate grasp of Spanish, and will have a teaching qualification before i leave



Well hopefully you'll be lucky and gain employment, but it wont be easy. There are 1000s of unemployed teachers around, but there are jobs for the good ones. All you can do is try your hardest and if you know people in Barcelona, they may be able to help - Spain is very much a country of who you know, not what you know


Jo xxx


----------



## SteveHall

I am with Pesky Wesky - let me try to get this correct

1) You MAY have a visa 

2) You would not be able to work for any employer for more than 3 months 

3) You do not speak Spanish or Catalán 

4) You do not currently have a teaching certificate or experience.

If that is all correct then I can only say: 

1) Spain has 19% unemployment and 44% under 25 year unemployment

2) There are thousands of qualified teachers

3) There are equally thousands of qualified teachers who speak Spanish AND Catalan

(I have been in Barcelona this week and held meetings at BCN University. I KNOW that there are hundreds of very well qualified locals and/or comunitarios with right of abode who are looking for every job. If you are to be taken seriously you will NEED to speak Catalán. Punto, final.) 

Sure, if you want to scrape by on illegal por hora lessons you could try but as for working in a professional environment, I regret you have virtually zero chance. 

All that said, I wish you luck and I´d never want to pop anyone´s dream balloon.

BTW As Jojo said, BCN is one of the most expensive cities in Spain. I love it, I´d love to live there but I am realistic that without Catalán and with my Calvinist background it will probably only ever be a great week/weekend break for me.


----------



## foolingyoo

SteveHall said:


> I am with Pesky Wesky - let me try to get this correct
> 
> 1) You MAY have a visa
> 
> 2) You would not be able to work for any employer for more than 3 months
> 
> 3) You do not speak Spanish or Catalán
> 
> 4) You do not currently have a teaching certificate or experience.
> 
> If that is all correct then I can only say:
> 
> 1) Spain has 19% unemployment and 44% under 25 year unemployment
> 
> 2) There are thousands of qualified teachers
> 
> 3) There are equally thousands of qualified teachers who speak Spanish AND Catalan
> 
> (I have been in Barcelona this week and held meetings at BCN University. I KNOW that there are hundreds of very well qualified locals and/or comunitarios with right of abode who are looking for every job. If you are to be taken seriously you will NEED to speak Catalán. Punto, final.)
> 
> Sure, if you want to scrape by on illegal por hora lessons you could try but as for working in a professional environment, I regret you have virtually zero chance.
> 
> All that said, I wish you luck and I´d never want to pop anyone´s dream balloon.
> 
> BTW As Jojo said, BCN is one of the most expensive cities in Spain. I love it, I´d love to live there but I am realistic that without Catalán and with my Calvinist background it will probably only ever be a great week/weekend break for me.


Thanks for bringing me down to earth guys


----------



## Pesky Wesky

foolingyoo said:


> Thanks for bringing me down to earth guys


 
Well, sorry about that...

As a summary:


You do have a teaching qualification,  which is a necessity if you thinking about making a living from teaching. But as Jojo says there are a lot of qualified teachers here already. If someone comes over without qualifications my prediction is that there'll possibly make pocket money doing unstable private classes. Even so, as I've said before, there's not a lot of money in teaching, qualified or not.
You speak some Spanish. Definitely in your favour and the more you know the better. Obviously it would be advantageous to speak Catalan, but i would only think about it if you decide to settle there as it's not spoken anywhere else in the world.
You have Catalan friends. Another big pro. They can help you feel more at home, help you with the language and may have some contacts.
You don't want to go to the south coast  where the teaching English situation seems to be worst

The cons you know, unemployment, surpless of teachers, not much money to be made and bizarre conditions worked out by government officials 

It up to you now!!


----------



## foolingyoo

*Thanks*

Thanks, I now have a few big decisions to make over the next few months.

1) Stay in london, not exactly cheap either (Rental costs vs salary would be the same here vs barcelona). Can work as much as i like and speak the language. However being from somewhere warm and relaxed dosent really suit me.

2)Move to barcelona where i don't speak the language, there's an incredible oversupply of people looking for a limited number of jobs where i wont be able to understand one of the languages spoken and only understand some of the others spoke. And have strange restrictions placed on where i can work

This really should be a no brainer, stay in london and stick it out, waiting for a better oppourtinity to come along.

Lots of thinking to do, thanks for the positive and negative input. Can make an imformed decision now.


----------



## jojo

I've put a temporary teaching job in madrid into the "spanish jobs" section of the forum


Jo xxxx


----------



## NATLOCA1

*Hey*



jojo said:


> I've put a temporary teaching job in madrid into the "spanish jobs" section of the forum
> 
> 
> Jo xxxx


HEY!!!! So need help... SNIP/ I need a subsitute ASAP, my boss is freaking cause we can't find anybody...it's guaranteed work and guaranteed hire!!!


----------



## Pesky Wesky

NATLOCA1 said:


> HEY!!!! So need help... SNIP/ I need a subsitute ASAP, my boss is freaking cause we can't find anybody...it's guaranteed work and guaranteed hire!!!


 
Have sent info to two possible candidates, hope it works out!


----------



## Pesky Wesky

Something I found on you tube about esl in the usa


----------



## xabiaxica

Pesky Wesky said:


> Something I found on you tube about esl in the usa
> 
> YouTube- Broadcast Yourself.


so let's all go there then


NOT!!! - as my as my dh would like to go back to live there




I had no idea that English is the official language in only 28 states


----------



## Pesky Wesky

xabiachica said:


> so let's all go there then
> 
> 
> NOT!!! - as my as my dh would like to go back to live there
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I had no idea that English is the official language in only 28 states


That's right, I'd forgotten you'd lived there!

I suppose the other states just don't have an official language, not that's it's a different language, right??


----------



## xabiaxica

Pesky Wesky said:


> That's right, I'd forgotten you'd lived there!
> 
> I suppose the other states just don't have an official language, not that's it's a different language, right??


I suppose so

I wish I'd been able to speak Spanish when we lived in Florida, it would have been very useful


----------



## thurgauer

Hi Marius, 

are there any particular towns or villages that you are looking at in Galicia? Prices will vary depending on the size of the town. If you can understand at lest some Spanish you can look at El País at ELPAÍS.com: el periódico global de noticias en español. Go to "clasificados" and there you can look at houses for sale in different parts of Galicia. You will be able to see the size of the house and the land. Also keep in mind you will need to have enough money to live on until you start earning money. 

If I can be of any more help feel free to send me a private message. 

Regards

Marco


----------



## Rocknroll

thurgauer said:


> Hi Marius,
> 
> are there any particular towns or villages that you are looking at in Galicia? Prices will vary depending on the size of the town. If you can understand at lest some Spanish you can look at El País at ... *(not allowed...)* el periódico global de noticias en español[/url]. Go to "clasificados" and there you can look at houses for sale in different parts of Galicia. You will be able to see the size of the house and the land. Also keep in mind you will need to have enough money to live on until you start earning money.
> 
> If I can be of any more help feel free to send me a private message.
> 
> Regards
> 
> Marco


Yes, we know a little spanish (my wife is looking to telenovelas peliculas... ) and we both have been to Santiago de Compostela (you know, the pilgrimage) last summer. So, we prefer to be something on that route, or close (Portomarin, Ligonde, Melide etc... or Lugo, or maybe Vigo area)

Thanks!


----------



## thurgauer

That is a great way of picking up the language. Those towns you mentioned they will certainly be much cheaper than the larger ones such as Madrid and Barcelona. Definitely the best way to find out what prices are like is to check the ads in El Pais online. You can search for places in any of those towns and you can specify the type of property you are looking for. This will give you an indication of how much they sell for.


----------



## Rocknroll

thurgauer said:


> That is a great way of picking up the language. Those towns you mentioned they will certainly be much cheaper than the larger ones such as Madrid and Barcelona. Definitely the best way to find out what prices are like is to check the ads in El Pais online. You can search for places in any of those towns and you can specify the type of property you are looking for. This will give you an indication of how much they sell for.


Yes, I have to look to *El Pais Online*, that's a good tip. Thanks!

P.S. We love Barcelona, but we know the prices are up to the sky there, besides the job problem.


----------



## thurgauer

I live in Barcelona and it is a great city but like you said prices here are very high. Buying or renting here can be very expensive unless you live on the outskirts of town. it's very easy getting around on public transport so living a bit further out could be a solution. 

At the moment the job situation is pretty dire and unemployment keeps going up. However, I think you said you wouldn't be moving to Spain for a while so who knows what it will be like by then. It might actually start coming down. At the moment the unemployment rate here in Spain is close to 20% and officially Spain is still in recession. What sort of work would you be looking for here?


----------



## Rocknroll

The suburbs of Barcelona could be an interesting sollution in the future, for us, who knows..., but first I think we will be going to Galicia.
I'm a freelancer, into advertising. I also been working as a journalist and my wife is highly educated in psycho-pedagogical assistance. 
We are thinking to opening a little business, an after-school or a small coffee-bar.
What do you think about? It will be enough 100,000 euros for a house and 75,000 euros for a small business?


----------



## Pesky Wesky

thurgauer said:


> I live in Barcelona and it is a great city but like you said prices here are very high. Buying or renting here can be very expensive unless you live on the outskirts of town. it's very easy getting around on public transport so living a bit further out could be a solution.
> 
> At the moment the job situation is pretty dire and unemployment keeps going up. However, I think you said you wouldn't be moving to Spain for a while so who knows what it will be like by then. It might actually start coming down. At the moment the unemployment rate here in Spain is close to 20% and officially Spain is still in recession. What sort of work would you be looking for here?


Hey there Thurgaeur,
How are you doing in Barcelona? Everything working out?


----------



## thurgauer

Hi Pesky Wesky, 

I'm doing great here and getting lots of work from the school. Believe me I'm counting my blessings given the dire situation here in Spain. Teaching work overall is still fairly thin on the ground in Barcelona.


----------



## Pesky Wesky

thurgauer said:


> Hi Pesky Wesky,
> 
> I'm doing great here and getting lots of work from the school..


 
Good for you!
Let's hope the good luck carries on through 2010!:clap2:


----------



## thurgauer

Although I don't know anything about house prices in Galicia I'd say €100k is a great start given that things are cheaper there. One piece of advice make sure that at least one of you is very fluent in Spanish. You will find that not many people in government departments speak anything but Spanish.


----------



## thurgauer

Lol. Now I'm worried. Seriously tho. Who knows what's around the corner. That is why I make sure that I have the money to go back home and some more on top of that to see me through until I find another job. The school seems to be doing very well at the moment.


----------



## Rocknroll

thurgauer said:


> Although I don't know anything about house prices in Galicia I'd say €100k is a great start given that things are cheaper there. One piece of advice make sure that at least one of you is very fluent in Spanish. You will find that not many people in government departments speak anything but Spanish.


Thurgauer, thanks for advice,
Definately, we will not leave Romania (for Spain) until one of us is fluently spanish. I know (to manage myself) english and I'm studying german. Probably I will start learning spanish too, soon.


----------



## thurgauer

No worries, RocknRoll. It sounds like you've really thought things out so you will do well. Given that you want to run a business here you will definitely need Spanish if you are aiming at the local market. They will expect you to address them in Spanish


----------



## kevin diver

Hi
I am living in Nerja at the moment and I have C.E.L.T.A. I would be gratefull for any information regarding teaching in this area. Also if anyone out there would like to join forces and set up a group teaching scenario
Cheers 
Kevin


----------



## Pesky Wesky

kevin diver said:


> Hi
> I am living in Nerja at the moment and I have C.E.L.T.A. I would be gratefull for any information regarding teaching in this area. Also if anyone out there would like to join forces and set up a group teaching scenario
> Cheers
> Kevin


I don't know anything about that area, but from what I've seen there seem to be more Spanish classes on offer than English!
Some ideas...
I see there's an "Escuela Oficial". The teachers will be Spanish, but you may be able to pick up some privates from there or offer your services as an extra curricular activity giving talks once a week, fortnight, month... I was offered this kind of thing from an escuela oficial around here at a good rate.
Google schools in Nerja and send or better take your cv round to them. 
Get in touch with hotels or businesses in the area directly.
Look at other forums or expat clubs in the area and see if you can make any contacts.
Get in touch with the international schools to see if any students want/ need extra classes.


----------



## Tallulah

Just out of interest PW - in your area are they starting the initiative of educating children in other subjects in English as well?


----------



## xabiaxica

Pesky Wesky said:


> I don't know anything about that area, but from what I've seen there seem to be more Spanish classes on offer than English!
> Some ideas...
> I see there's an "Escuela Oficial". The teachers will be Spanish, but you may be able to pick up some privates from there or offer your services as an extra curricular activity giving talks once a week, fortnight, month... I was offered this kind of thing from an escuela oficial around here at a good rate.
> Google schools in Nerja and send or better take your cv round to them.
> Get in touch with hotels or businesses in the area directly.
> Look at other forums or expat clubs in the area and see if you can make any contacts.
> Get in touch with the international schools to see if any students want/ need extra classes.


the English Teacher at our nearest "Escuela Oficial" is German!!

and you can tell - I had some 'remedial' students privately - they had failed some tests or other & wanted some private lessons from a 'native' teacher

they had picked up some pretty poor pronunciation & phrasing


----------



## xabiaxica

Tallulah said:


> Just out of interest PW - in your area are they starting the initiative of educating children in other subjects in English as well?


they tried to do that around here - the teachers went on strike against it & won


----------



## Tallulah

xabiachica said:


> they tried to do that around here - the teachers went on strike against it & won


Hmmm - just picked up the kids from school and the twins who were due to sit a Gallego exam this week have been informed that it's being postponed as the Gallego teachers are going on strike. It's all over the news today with the Galician Academy etc - there's always some political battle going on in these autonomous communities over the preservation of their own languages which I am very sympathetic to, but they are continually changing the curriculum to suit depending upon who is in power in the Xunta and it's the kids who are suffering at the end of the day....add to that any further subject being taught in English and it's all going to grind to a halt.


----------



## jojo

Tallulah said:


> Hmmm - just picked up the kids from school and the twins who were due to sit a Gallego exam this week have been informed that it's being postponed as the Gallego teachers are going on strike. It's all over the news today with the Galician Academy etc - there's always some political battle going on in these autonomous communities over the preservation of their own languages which I am very sympathetic to, but they are continually changing the curriculum to suit depending upon who is in power in the Xunta and it's the kids who are suffering at the end of the day....add to that any further subject being taught in English and it's all going to grind to a halt.


Lots of state schools around my way teach in english as well. They have bilingual groups and classes - for Spanish children only tho!!!?! 

Jo xxx


----------



## SteveHall

The lady who taught English at my local Spanish State School could hardly offer a coffee in English correctly! I used to have go through the next day´s lessons with her. 

Danish kid with great accent (...and "attitude") stood up in the middle of the class one day and told her she was xxxxing useless and he was not going to listen to her xxxx any longer and walked out. (She already had a kind of a deal with some Irish kids that they could play on their PlayStations if they were quiet!!!) She dashed out of the classroom in a "flood of tears" (an expression I had to teach her) as mass confusion reigned (an expression I would never have had a hope of explaining) 

The overwhelming majority of Spanish teachers have not a hope in heaven of teaching ANY subject in English. It would be like me trying to teach political correctness or diplomacy!


----------



## jojo

SteveHall said:


> The lady who taught English at my local Spanish State School could hardly offer a coffee in English correctly! I used to have go through the next day´s lessons with her.
> 
> Danish kid with great accent (...and "attitude") stood up in the middle of the class one day and told her she was xxxxing useless and he was not going to listen to her xxxx any longer and walked out. (She already had a kind of a deal with some Irish kids that they could play on their PlayStations if they were quiet!!!) She dashed out of the classroom in a "flood of tears" (an expression I had to teach her) as mass confusion reigned (an expression I would never have had a hope of explaining)
> 
> The overwhelming majority of Spanish teachers have not a hope in heaven of teaching ANY subject in English. It would be like me trying to teach political correctness or diplomacy!


They do a great job at Rubys school. As I say, its not for english kids, although they did have Ruby in one lesson to see if she could understand them 

Most of the teachers in Rubys school seem to have a good grasp of English. In fact her year head pretended he couldnt speak english when he first met Ruby and then when she left the room, he announced thast he'd studied in Canterbury for two years when he was training

Jo xxx


----------



## SteveHall

The average Spanish kid leaves school at the age of 18 with the ability of perhaps a 12,13 year old from Scandinavia or the Benelux countries. The standard of teaching English in Spanish state schools is dire ..... punto final. 

That´s one thing if English is "just" one subject but what on this sweet earth is the point of a Spanish teacher teaching Spanish kids history ....... in English? 

(That said how many English kids can ask for much more than a coffee after A levels in French or German. I thought I was comfortable until I went to university and hitch-hiked through Germany the year after A levels. OMG!!)


----------



## jojo

SteveHall said:


> That´s one thing if English is "just" one subject but what on this sweet earth is the point of a Spanish teacher teaching Spanish kids history ....... in English?


They dont teach spanish history in english. I forget the subjects, maths is one I think, IT, business studies, english and english history obviously ...... But they run a tandem spanish speaking lesson alongside. I think its a terrific idea - especially when you see the waiting list for spanish kids at international schools. Since the exodus of the Brits at my sons school, the amount of Spanish children has increased dramatically. The Spanish see the need for their children to speak english - not because of the expats, but its the business language of the world and "class room level" english isnt good enough! Incidentally, they teach Spanish history and culture in Spanish (comosamiento - sp??) at his school
Jo xxx


----------



## jojo

.... heres a bit about the bilingual programme at Rubys school

Zona Bilingüe - IES Capellanía

Jo xx


----------



## SteveHall

It was an example only - I could have been more careful. 

This was sent to me today by a guy looking for translation work!!!! 
Any Scandi or Dutch kid of 14/15 would have done better - gived!!!!! 

My name is xxxxx xxxxxxxx and I always trying to improve my English. 

Since 2000 I work at translation and locazation agencies, national and international such as xxxxxx. I started at xxxxx at May, 2005. I come from xxxxx to Pxxxxx ( South region) expecting just life quality but I found a CEO that gived to me all tools to make our business grow. 

Today, we do more than 20 language pairs working only with native target language speakers. 

If you sometimes need any assistance, fell free to contact me to quote or do any test for your company. 

...and he expects me to use/recommend him for translation services!!!!! ¡Qué va! Creo que no.


----------



## SteveHall

jojo said:


> .... heres a bit about the bilingual programme at Rubys school
> 
> Zona Bilingüe - IES Capellanía
> 
> Jo xx


Thanks Jojo. How very interesting - thankfully I can understand it!! LOL 

Somebody who is totally fluent might also comment on some of the Spanish in that article. Anybody?


----------



## jojo

SteveHall said:


> It was an example only - I could have been more careful.
> 
> This was sent to me today by a guy looking for translation work!!!!
> Any Scandi or Dutch kid of 14/15 would have done better - gived!!!!!
> 
> My name is xxxxx xxxxxxxx and I always trying to improve my English.
> 
> Since 2000 I work at translation and locazation agencies, national and international such as xxxxxx. I started at xxxxx at May, 2005. I come from xxxxx to Pxxxxx ( South region) expecting just life quality but I found a CEO that gived to me all tools to make our business grow.
> 
> Today, we do more than 20 language pairs working only with native target language speakers.
> 
> If you sometimes need any assistance, fell free to contact me to quote or do any test for your company.
> 
> ...and he expects me to use/recommend him for translation services!!!!! ¡Qué va! Creo que no.



Not good!! Sadly Dutch and scandi kids are so damn boring and bland tho (like their countries)! Maybe thats why they learn to speak english - to try to make themselves more interesting lol 

jo xxx


----------



## SteveHall

jojo said:


> Not good!! Sadly Dutch and scandi kids are so damn boring and bland tho (like their countries)! Maybe thats why they learn to speak english - to try to make themselves more interesting lol
> 
> jo xxx


Is this what you would call boring? Mmmmmm!


----------



## jojo

SteveHall said:


> Is this what you would call boring? Mmmmmm!


Incredibly - YES!! Very clinical and - well, like Ikea!!! 

Jo xxx


----------



## SteveHall

If I did not know better I would brand you as a Man City or Arsenal supporter. 

For those of you who DO appreciate nature at its most raw please feel free to enjoy the fjords, the mountains, the geysers etc! 

I could talk about the fauna - we had a lynx in the garden recently and regularly have deer scavenging for food. (The "brave" cats pawing at the lynx from the safety of the living room!) 

Here is a question though. Why do polar bears in the far north not eat penguins? They eat just about everything else ...but not penguins?


----------



## jojo

SteveHall said:


> If I did not know better I would brand you as a Man City or Arsenal supporter.
> 
> For those of you who DO appreciate nature at its most raw please feel free to enjoy the fjords, the mountains, the geysers etc!
> 
> I could talk about the fauna - we had a lynx in the garden recently and regularly have deer scavenging for food. (The "brave" cats pawing at the lynx from the safety of the living room!)
> 
> Here is a question though. Why do polar bears in the far north not eat penguins? They eat just about everything else ...but not penguins?



Cos the penguins dont live in the north do they????? Arent they from "darn safff??"

Jo xxx


----------



## SteveHall

NOT just a pretty face, young Jojo 

I owe you a coke for that one.


----------



## jojo

SteveHall said:


> NOT just a pretty face, young Jojo
> 
> I owe you a coke for that one.


Was that the right answer??? lol Yes you can buy me a coke the next time you're in the country!!!!

Jo xxx


----------



## Pesky Wesky

xabiachica said:


> the English Teacher at our nearest "Escuela Oficial" is German!!


Really??!!
That's wierd, isn't it? Is she German with Spanish nationality perhaps?:confused2:


----------



## Pesky Wesky

Tallulah said:


> Just out of interest PW - in your area are they starting the initiative of educating children in other subjects in English as well?


Yes, it started about 3 (???) years ago, but my daughter hasn't had the "opportunity" of participating. They have now introduced it in the first year of her secondary school. They do seem to be taking it very seriously, but from what I know about the teacher training (which isn't much) there is a limit ot how seriously you can be.
On the other hand i haven't heard any direct comments about how it's going in her school - perhaps I'll make some enquiries.


----------



## Pesky Wesky

jojo said:


> They do a great job at Rubys school. As I say, its not for english kids, although they did have Ruby in one lesson to see if she could understand them
> 
> Most of the teachers in Rubys school seem to have a good grasp of English. In fact her year head pretended he couldnt speak english when he first met Ruby and then when she left the room, he announced thast he'd studied in Canterbury for two years when he was training
> 
> Jo xxx


Why isn't it for English kids? The whole idea is that they're giving the normal curriculum in English so just as the Spanish have an advantage when the subject's taught in Spanish Ruby in theory would have an advantage when the subject's taught in English - or do the give her extra Spanish in those classes. 
Here they have a class called "enlace" (link) for immigrant children so they have an opportunity to bring their Spanish up to scratch and have extra help with school work


----------



## jojo

Pesky Wesky said:


> Why isn't it for English kids? The whole idea is that they're giving the normal curriculum in English so just as the Spanish have an advantage when the subject's taught in Spanish Ruby in theory would have an advantage when the subject's taught in English - or do the give her extra Spanish in those classes.
> Here they have a class called "enlace" (link) for immigrant children so they have an opportunity to bring their Spanish up to scratch and have extra help with school work



Firstly its over subscribed and secondly, I think they want Ruby to learn Spanish rather than learn english?? However, very often she goes into their classes and basically "shows off" that she can speak english fluently  I have asked if she can do it when theres a vacancy and they've said that if she works hard in spanish then its possible??? I think their plan with Ruby is that they've put her into the year above where she should be (year 2) and she will be kept down and re-do it again next year - I think I agree with them and see their logic. I'm also quite impressed that they've bothered to formulate a plan and an agenda for her. They monitor her progress and I get an e-mail if theres a problem - even if its fairly trivial. "Ruby didnt bring her babbington racket in today" "Ruby scored 8/10 in her maths homework" - that sort of thing - all written in english for her incapable mum!!LOL

Jo xxx


----------



## Pesky Wesky

jojo said:


> I think their plan with Ruby is that they've put her into the year above where she should be (year 2) and she will be kept down and re-do it again next year - I think I agree with them and see their logic. I'm also quite impressed that they've bothered to formulate a plan and an agenda for her. They monitor her progress and I get an e-mail if theres a problem - even if its fairly trivial. "Ruby didnt bring her babbington racket in today" "Ruby scored 8/10 in her maths homework" - that sort of thing - all written in english for her incapable mum!!LOL
> 
> Jo xxx


I agree, that _*is*_ impressive. I don't pretend to understand it, but they seem to genuinly interested in her education.


----------



## jojo

Pesky Wesky said:


> I agree, that _*is*_ impressive. I don't pretend to understand it, but they seem to genuinly interested in her education.


I dont understand why either! I did tell them when she started that she had been to a state school before and had a bad experience (she was bullied by the brits and ignored by the spanish!!) and was quite frightened. But her year head was lovely. At our first meeting, he chatted to her in Spanish and then called a pupil in to show ruby round and then started chatting to me in English and was pretty much fluent. I think that they are trying to encourage english kids to the school as part of their bilingual standing, cos the school isnt really in our catchment area!!!!! - oh, and he was very good looking lol!!!!!!!!! 

Jo xxx


----------



## xabiaxica

Pesky Wesky said:


> Really??!!
> That's wierd, isn't it? Is she German with Spanish nationality perhaps?:confused2:


he's just been here forever - I have no idea if he has taken Spanish nationality


I just know he speaks very odd English!


----------



## Pesky Wesky

jojo said:


> Firstly its over subscribed and secondly, I think they want Ruby to learn Spanish rather than learn english?? However, very often she goes into their classes and basically "shows off" that she can speak english fluently  I have asked if she can do it when theres a vacancy and they've said that if she works hard in spanish then its possible??? I think their plan with Ruby is that they've put her into the year above where she should be (year 2) and she will be kept down and re-do it again next year - I think I agree with them and see their logic. I'm also quite impressed that they've bothered to formulate a plan and an agenda for her. They monitor her progress and I get an e-mail if theres a problem - even if its fairly trivial. "Ruby didnt bring her babbington racket in today" "Ruby scored 8/10 in her maths homework" - that sort of thing - all written in english for her incapable mum!!LOL
> 
> Jo xxx


After thinking about this some more I think I understand the logic behind it better. They're probably thinking that Ruby will have to repeat a year no matter what. The big disadvantage to that is that she may end up doing the whole of her secondary education out of line with her year group. However, if she starts off a year ahead, next she she stays down and "regroups" with her age group. Quite a good idea actually.
Perhaps :focus:?????????


----------



## Pesky Wesky

Sorry this article is in Spanish but it's an inspiring article if you can understand it. Basically it tells the story of an 81 or 82 year old uneducated Catalan guy who was given a book about American history by his grandson for his birthday. Instead of saying "I can't read that!" he set about translating it and has now translated several books spending 7-8 hours a day on it. :clap2:
And to cap it all he's blind in one eye!!

Anyway, the idea is, if he can do it so can we (learn English, Spanish...)


----------



## SteveHall

See this too 

The only man ever to build THREE billion dollar companies ....and without completing his first degree! 

A legend!


----------



## Pesky Wesky

Just for general info…
I picked up the latest (Feb) copy of In Madrid (freebie English newspaper) There are:
10 ads for experienced teachers
4 where experience is not mentioned
1 for a school or children where experienced is not mentioned
1 for a school or children for experienced teachers

The vast majority state that only qualified teachers need apply and some state in the ad that teachers must have papers

Ads for teachers for summer camps are starting to appear

Feb is probably the last "strong" month for job applications, except for children's camps, until the September intake. 
This info is for Madrid. On the costas I imagine it's a different story...


----------



## meryl

*Re teaching English in Spain*

I am a fully qualified teacher, but still felt the need to do the TEFL in different modules to update myself.

Don't underestimate the standard that this course requires I was quite surprised at the level and detail that they require, actually in some places more in depth than my original Teaching Certificate!


----------



## Pesky Wesky

meryl said:


> I am a fully qualified teacher, but still felt the need to do the TEFL in different modules to update myself.
> 
> Don't underestimate the standard that this course requires I was quite surprised at the level and detail that they require, actually in some places more in depth than my original Teaching Certificate!


I agree that a good TEFL course is a gruelling experience which requires hard work to get through. You should come away from it with the feeling that you've learnt an awful lot, and the realization that you have another ton to learn.

However, I don't understand why you need the TEFL to update yourself. For me it wasn't updating, it was training to do another type of teaching which teachers need to be instructed in before being let loose on the public.


----------



## meryl

Pesky Wesky said:


> I agree that a good TEFL course is a gruelling experience which requires hard work to get through. You should come away from it with the feeling that you've learnt an awful lot, and the realization that you have another ton to learn.
> 
> However, I don't understand why you need the TEFL to update yourself. For me it wasn't updating, it was training to do another type of teaching which teachers need to be instructed in before being let loose on the public.


The reason I went into it was to update myself, but as I said I found it very detailed and as you say another type of training, although I have trained on other courses as well and if you are a good teacher you should be flexible and open minded enough to engage in learning and using, whatever method is appropriate for the students and subject that you are teaching. Whether or not all teachers need to go on a TEFL or similar course, really depends on what type of training teachers have had already.


----------



## Pesky Wesky

meryl said:


> The reason I went into it was to update myself, but as I said I found it very detailed and as you say another type of training, although I have trained on other courses as well and if you are a good teacher you should be flexible and open minded enough to engage in learning and using, whatever method is appropriate for the students and subject that you are teaching. Whether or not all teachers need to go on a TEFL or similar course, really depends on what type of training teachers have had already.


So...
What kind of teacher wouldn't need to go on a tefl course to be able to teach English to foreigners?
For example a secondary school biology teacher?
A primary school teacher?
An English teacher?
If you're teaching in an academy in Spain you'll probably have a mix of children and adults. Would you need a TEFL qualification then?


----------



## xabiaxica

Pesky Wesky said:


> So...
> What kind of teacher wouldn't need to go on a tefl course to be able to teach English to foreigners?
> For example a secondary school biology teacher?
> A primary school teacher?
> An English teacher?
> If you're teaching in an academy in Spain you'll probably have a mix of children and adults. Would you need a TEFL qualification then?


I didn't actually do a TEFL course - came through the B.Ed primary route - but for quite some time I wished I had!

teaching English as a foreign language is so very different from the teaching I had been trained for - especially in Spain, where the emphasis on language learning is so very grammar-based


----------



## Pesky Wesky

xabiachica said:


> I didn't actually do a TEFL course - came through the B.Ed primary route - but for quite some time I wished I had!
> 
> teaching English as a foreign language is so very different from the teaching I had been trained for - especially in Spain, where the emphasis on language learning is so very grammar-based


I also have the B Ed, but when I discovered I couldn't get a job in the UK I decided to do the TEFL and go abroad which I'd been planning on doing at some point anyway. 
As you say, Teaching English as a Foreign Language is very different to "normal" teaching, as in being a teacher in a school in the UK. In fact I would say it has nothing in common with it at all, and especially if you're going to end up teaching adults! The only similar scenario would be if you were teaching in a British Curriculum private school.


----------



## RagsToRich

*Teaching without TEFL*

Without wanting to risk someone's wrath....

What are the chances of teaching English in spain without a TEFL (but creatively avoiding the subject with employers)?

I am only concerned about two things here:
1) How thouroughly employers check...

2) How much "benefit" I'd actually miss from the £1000+ certificate.

I'm a philosophy graduate with post-graduate qualifications in Journalism so level of English is not an issue for me. Also I'm fairly confident so not a problem there either.

Where problems might arise for me is things like drawing up lesson plans...

But to what extent is an English teacher expected to do that? Are the positions more "class-room assistant"? Because that sounds like a doddle to be perfectly honest, I remember the french teaching assistants in my school - they did very little but speak their native language to us.

WHY do I ask? Well because I'm not set on teaching English, but I'd be a fool not to consider it as a back-up if other things don't work out. So I don't have £1000+ to burn on a certificate, but on the other hand there's a good chance I'll end up doing some for at least a little while.

Thanks!

Rich


----------



## jojo

RagsToRich said:


> Without wanting to risk someone's wrath....
> 
> What are the chances of teaching English in spain without a TEFL (but creatively avoiding the subject with employers)?
> 
> I am only concerned about two things here:
> 1) How thouroughly employers check...
> 
> 2) How much "benefit" I'd actually miss from the £1000+ certificate.
> 
> I'm a philosophy graduate with post-graduate qualifications in Journalism so level of English is not an issue for me. Also I'm fairly confident so not a problem there either.
> 
> Where problems might arise for me is things like drawing up lesson plans...
> 
> But to what extent is an English teacher expected to do that? Are the positions more "class-room assistant"? Because that sounds like a doddle to be perfectly honest, I remember the french teaching assistants in my school - they did very little but speak their native language to us.
> 
> WHY do I ask? Well because I'm not set on teaching English, but I'd be a fool not to consider it as a back-up if other things don't work out. So I don't have £1000+ to burn on a certificate, but on the other hand there's a good chance I'll end up doing some for at least a little while.
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Rich


I dont know the answer, I do know there are a lot of TEFL teachers in Spain. My thoughts are from the other viewpoint, would I pay to be taught by someone with no qualifications???

Jo xxx


----------



## RagsToRich

jojo said:


> I dont know the answer, I do know there are a lot of TEFL teachers in Spain. My thoughts are from the other viewpoint, would I pay to be taught by someone with no qualifications???
> 
> Jo xxx


True, let's imagine that I'd be getting around that creatively, in such a way that they'd assume I had qualifcations.

Then the only thing we're concerned about is my quality of work right?

Well then my two questions are...

1) How realisitic is it for me to think I can convince someone I have a TEFL, without actually having one?

and 

2) How realistic is it for me to think I can teach high quality English, without having the 120 hours of classroom time it takes to get the certificate (but more importantly for me, be £1000 better off  )?

Bear in mind these two things ...

I used to be a professional newspaper journalist.

I'm educated to post-graduate level.


----------



## xabiaxica

RagsToRich said:


> Without wanting to risk someone's wrath....
> 
> What are the chances of teaching English in spain without a TEFL (but creatively avoiding the subject with employers)?
> 
> I am only concerned about two things here:
> 1) How thouroughly employers check...
> 
> 2) How much "benefit" I'd actually miss from the £1000+ certificate.
> 
> I'm a philosophy graduate with post-graduate qualifications in Journalism so level of English is not an issue for me. Also I'm fairly confident so not a problem there either.
> 
> Where problems might arise for me is things like drawing up lesson plans...
> 
> But to what extent is an English teacher expected to do that? Are the positions more "class-room assistant"? Because that sounds like a doddle to be perfectly honest, I remember the french teaching assistants in my school - they did very little but speak their native language to us.
> 
> WHY do I ask? Well because I'm not set on teaching English, but I'd be a fool not to consider it as a back-up if other things don't work out. So I don't have £1000+ to burn on a certificate, but on the other hand there's a good chance I'll end up doing some for at least a little while.
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Rich


I didn't do a TEFL - I went the B.ED route, so I could do lesson plans & had teaching experience - & at first I often wished that I had done a TEFL - teaching English as a foreign language is very different to teaching kids in a 'normal' school!

yes, you have to do lesson plans, yes you will be alone with a group of kids who probably don't want to be there, or adults who usually do

no, you won't get a job in a state school - even B.Ed qualified can't do that (at least in my area)


but yes, you might be able to blag your way into an academy - although that is less likely at the moment with plenty of qualified people looking for the few jobs that there are! 

and yes, if the academy is any good & you prove not to be - you won't be there for long

oh - & the 1000 quid course - worth the paper it's written on - but possibly won't actually help you teach high quality English as you suspect - I know people who have done these type of 40 hour courses who have admitted that they were woefully prepared to teach - they got a job, but couldn't actually _do_ it! Of course some have natural talent & do fine.................

to be really prepared, you should do a CELTA - takes longer, costs more but leaves you well qualified & prepared


----------



## jojo

Hmmmm - I'm glad you're not planning to come over here and be a surgeon, cos you've trained as a nurse and dont wanna pay to take more qualifications LOL - sorry I know I'm being flippant.

Whether you try to do this or not, IMO (which isnt based on anything more than observation),your main source of competition is going to be the 1000s of TEFL teachers already here and the 1000s who are totally bilingual in English and Spanish. the serious lack of jobs and the pay may not be enough to live on




Jo xxx


----------



## xabiaxica

jojo said:


> Hmmmm - I'm glad you're not planning to come over here and be a surgeon, cos you've trained as a nurse and dont wanna pay to take more qualifications LOL - sorry I know I'm being flippant.
> 
> Whether you try to do this or not, IMO (which isnt based on anything more than observation),your main source of competition is going to be the 1000s of TEFL teachers already here and the 1000s who are totally bilingual in English and Spanish. the serious lack of jobs and the pay may not be enough to live on
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jo xxx


and that's the other thing - outside the prestigious academies in the big cities - who will I'm sure want to check qualifications - the money isn't enough to live on unless you can get private company contracts (even then maybe not & again -quals important) & work ridiculously long hours


----------



## Pesky Wesky

How about if I say to you…
What are the chances of being a journalist in the UK without a journalism degree (but creatively avoiding the subject with employers)? I’m an English teacher, so level of English is not an issue for me. Also I'm fairly confident so not a problem there either.

Yes, I could probably do it, but I might not get the best jobs or conditions including salary. And that’s your answer really. Somebody somewhere might take you on, but the conditions would reflect your status as unqualified and inexperienced, as is to be expected. Xabiachica mentioned pay. In an academy which accepts teachers without qualifications it would be unlikely that you make enough to live on. You could possibly get private classes, but again poorly paid and it would of course be illegal, untaxed income which may or may not bother you.

Look at post 235 to see what I wrote about recent jobs in Madrid. 

As for the TEFL course, why do you think so many people do it? If all the courses were crap and a waste of money there soon wouldn’t be any. If you decide to do one, be sure it’s in a place with experience, with a recognised qualification given (CELTA) and that teaching practise is included.

What would gain from a TEFL course? Well it might be how to deal with a class of 7 yr olds who have just finished a 6 hour day at school and are tired and fed up and have been sent to an English class by their parents. Or how to persuade a class of 14 year olds who won’t say more than yes/ no/ it depends to talk in English. It might help you explain to your students why we say *I am never late*,(subject + verb + adverb of frequency) yet *I never listened to my teacher at school* (subject + adverb of frequency + verb) or to explain why *get off *isn’t the same as *get off with.*

You seem to be proud of your qualifications, so why do you seem to think that teaching qualifications are not worth the investment? I would think about what Jojo said in her first post *would I pay to be taught by someone with no qualifications??? *And would I be happy taking peoples’ money without any qualifications. I’m guessing that’s not going to be a problem… You also asked *How realisitic is it for me to think I can convince someone I have a TEFL, without actually having one? *I don’t think there’s any convincing to do. They ask you to present your certificate and you don’t have one. Are you going to print one out, say the dog ate it for breakfast?? That’s not convincing, someone it’s lying whether you want to call it another name or not.

Having said all that…
In the end it’s up to you. Here’s the link to a very successful organisation led by somebody who, let’s say, is _*fairly confident*_ of himself. 
Teach English in Spain
They don’t ask for qualifications so you might be in there. As xabiachica said you need a B Ed or similar to teach in a school. I'm not sure for a teaching assistant, but I think the idea is that the people who go earn little money, but gain experience about teaching.

Tell us what you decide to do!


----------



## RagsToRich

Thanks for the advice, this is very good.

The biggest issue for me is the cost - I'll have to make a judgement call at some point as to what is more important to me, a £1000 CELTA course, or £1000 worth of food and rent for when I get to spain.

And that's what it'll come down to.

Unless there's a bursary I don't know about.

Cheers! I'll keep you updated.

Rich


----------



## Pesky Wesky

RagsToRich said:


> Thanks for the advice, this is very good.
> 
> The biggest issue for me is the cost - I'll have to make a judgement call at some point as to what is more important to me, a £1000 CELTA course, or £1000 worth of food and rent for when I get to spain.
> 
> And that's what it'll come down to.
> 
> Unless there's a bursary I don't know about.
> 
> Cheers! I'll keep you updated.
> 
> Rich


Look forward to reading your posts!


----------



## Guest

Goodness gracious, what a thread! It's been quite the interesting read. 

I'd like to throw my two cents in from the American perspective.
I'm here legitimately, working for the MEC as a "Language and Culture Assitant." They changed the name of the program this year and we have now been deemed "cultural ambassadors." Vamos, somos "Auxiliares de Conversación" which describes the job better. There's a way for most any native speaker of English to apply for the grant, just look it up on the website of the "Consejería de educación" in your home country. The British Council controls grant distribution for applicants from the UK, so you'd need to check with them to see what they say. The application was released in December this year, and they're already far over 2000 applicants for 1200+ spots. 

What do we do? IN THEORY, our job is to help out in the classroom, assisting with activities and sharing our culture. In experience, this can mean anything from taking control of the whole class while the teacher grades the exams for the next class or it can mean you're sitting in the back row twiddling your thumbs until the teacher has a question about "como se dice" something in English. I have been here for two years doing this program and I absolutely love it. You work 12 hours a week and earn enough for a single person living in a shared flat to live on. Extra caprichos can be paid for by picking up private classes which tend to find you when someone learns you're a native speaker interested in teaching - at least they tend to find you up here in the north where native speakers are comparatively rare. 

There's a way for native English speakers who are residents here in Spain to apply for the grant as well, but that depends on the autonomous community. If you're interested, talk to the autonomous government or even a union. UGT here had the convocatoria posted on their website last year. 

Do you need to speak Spanish? I DO NOT suggest you walk into a secondary school classroom without at least a basic knowledge of "sit down" "be quiet" and "go to the principal's office." Apart from the fact that it's slightly disrespectful to come to another country without wanting to learn the language... Also, up in many parts of the north you won't eat or have a place to sleep if you don't speak at least a bit of Spanish!

There was something mentioned earlier in the thread about salaries. Remember that a state teacher's take home pay (primary school) is only around 1500. I have a friend who works 40 hours a WEEK and earns 135eur more than I do... and I work 48 hours a MONTH. So, comparatively, this grant pays amazingly well. 

I'm hoping to participate in the 2012 round of secondary oposiciónes. We'll see how it goes! The Spanish system of hiring teachers is so different for me...


----------



## Caz.I

Hi Halydia,
That was fascinating to find out what it is actually like working on that programme. However, from what the British Council told me last year, starting from 2010, anyone who wants to apply for this programme through them must be resident in the UK and if you actually try to apply directly to the MEC via the website, if you are British you have to have been accepted via the British Council programme, so it's Catch 22. 
But if you are in the UK, you can apply through the British Council website, and I think I posted a link earlier on in this thread, I think the closing date is about April (for the September intake) so anyone wanting to do it will have to be quick about it.

Caz.I


----------



## Guest

Caz.I said:


> Hi Halydia,
> That was fascinating to find out what it is actually like working on that programme. However, from what the British Council told me last year, starting from 2010, anyone who wants to apply for this programme through them must be resident in the UK and if you actually try to apply directly to the MEC via the website, if you are British you have to have been accepted via the British Council programme, so it's Catch 22.
> But if you are in the UK, you can apply through the British Council website, and I think I posted a link earlier on in this thread, I think the closing date is about April (for the September intake) so anyone wanting to do it will have to be quick about it.
> 
> Caz.I



Again, if you're presently residing in Spain I'd check with your regional education department to see if they have any spots for this same job that are granted directly through them (instead of working through Madrid or the B.C.) I know this is the case where I'm working.

The deadline for non-British Council applicants is the end of this month! (Although, in all honesty I doubt that you'll get a position if you apply this late in the game. There's a ton of applications already, and I'm even terrified that I won't get the renewal!)


----------



## SteveHall

Halydia, how interesting. Thanks for sharing!


----------



## Pesky Wesky

halydia said:


> Goodness gracious, what a thread! It's been quite the interesting read.
> 
> I'd like to throw my two cents in from the American perspective.
> 
> 
> I'm hoping to participate in the 2012 round of secondary oposiciónes. We'll see how it goes! The Spanish system of hiring teachers is so different for me...


Yes, a bit long winded, but informative none the less, don't you think??

Thanks for taking the time to write this because there are a LOT of people interested in and of course, the best info is from smbody who's actually doing it.

As for the opos... My husband's being doing them for, I don't know, at least 10 years now and the tight fisted B****s won't give him a place! But that wont happen to you because they really want and need English teachers, especially native. 
This education system is really something, isn't it? I think it's a miracle that there are still teachers in the schools and that *some* of those teachers actually want to teach and have some ability to do so, because the system, educational authority, ministry, government doesn't help them one bit!


----------



## SteveHall

This education system is really something, isn't it? I think it's a miracle that there are still teachers in the schools and that some of those teachers actually want to teach and have some ability to do so, because the system, educational authority, ministry, government doesn't help them one bit!
__________________

Glad I have somebody who is prepared to agree with me.....I was getting a bit lonely!


----------



## Guest

Pesky Wesky said:


> As for the opos... My husband's being doing them for, I don't know, at least 10 years now and the tight fisted B****s won't give him a place! But that wont happen to you because they really want and need English teachers, especially native.
> This education system is really something, isn't it? I think it's a miracle that there are still teachers in the schools and that *some* of those teachers actually want to teach and have some ability to do so, because the system, educational authority, ministry, government doesn't help them one bit!


This bit about getting a placement the first time around or having to put in years as a substitute makes me extremely nervous. I'm already taking courses for points for the Opos to hopefully put me ahead of the recent-grad crowd. My dear boyfriend did the primary opos last year, and - isn't this grand - the number of folks who passed the exam was exactly the number who got a permanent spot! Hmmm. Oh well. Next round... or next... or next. 

And the whole educational system is interesting. I must admit that I do like the initiative they're taking up here, at least with regards to second language learning. I imagine it's wildly different in other regions, especially after reading this bit about schools BEGINNING to offer bilingual subjects down south, something that's quite common up here. 

Hope all is well where you all are. We had snow covered beaches up here this morning!


----------



## Pesky Wesky

halydia said:


> This bit about getting a placement the first time around or having to put in years as a substitute makes me extremely nervous. I'm already taking courses for points for the Opos to hopefully put me ahead of the recent-grad crowd. My dear boyfriend did the primary opos last year, and - isn't this grand - the number of folks who passed the exam was exactly the number who got a permanent spot! Hmmm. Oh well. Next round... or next... or next.
> 
> And the whole educational system is interesting. I must admit that I do like the initiative they're taking up here, at least with regards to second language learning. I imagine it's wildly different in other regions, especially after reading this bit about schools BEGINNING to offer bilingual subjects down south, something that's quite common up here.
> 
> Hope all is well where you all are. We had snow covered beaches up here this morning!


Well, it's not really as a *substitute.* (I suppose you're saying substitute because there's no real translation for *interino??)* I mean you're given full responsibilities and no one's watching what you do. You can even be head of department as an interino (possibly director of studies??!!, I don't know)It's just that you aren't paid quite as much money, which is why more permanent places aren't offered even though they exist. BUT, don't worry, you'll get a place, because in this case "English is different!!"


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## Guest

Pesky Wesky said:


> Well, it's not really as a *substitute.* (I suppose you're saying substitute because there's no real translation for *interino??)* I mean you're given full responsibilities and no one's watching what you do. You can even be head of department as an interino (possibly director of studies??!!, I don't know)It's just that you aren't paid quite as much money, which is why more permanent places aren't offered even though they exist. BUT, don't worry, you'll get a place, because in this case "English is different!!"


Could just be different up here - the interinos I know are all covering long term subsitutions (pregnancies, other bajas...) Then again, there is the distincition between interinos with susbstituciones and those who have a vacante. 

Is it possible for one to understand this system? :ranger: Oh well. Off to work I go!


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## Pesky Wesky

halydia said:


> Could just be different up here - the interinos I know are all covering long term subsitutions (pregnancies, other bajas...) Then again, there is the distincition between interinos with susbstituciones and those who have a vacante.
> 
> Is it possible for one to understand this system? :ranger: Oh well. Off to work I go!


Well like I say OH has been in this for years now and is an interino and has never had a substition and has always had a post. Different schools every year or two years, last minute appointments, but not subs. I think, as you say, the region influences and also the specialisation or academic area you're in.


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## Pesky Wesky

*Tefl posts Andalucia*

I've just received info about this teacher recruitment fair and it sounds like a great opportunity for both experienced and non experienced teachers to find out what jobs are on offer, what schools are offering them, and what the schools are offering.
Spainwise Recruitment Fair 2010 | www.spainwise.net
There are talks too. 
The only down side is that the schools going so far are almost exclusively from Andalucia - there's one from Bilbao, one recruitment agency from the UK and I don't know if there are any more. Anyway, if you're in that area you should definitely go!


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## Guest

Pesky Wesky said:


> I've just received info about this teacher recruitment fair and it sounds like a great opportunity for both experienced and non experienced teachers to find out what jobs are on offer, what schools are offering them, and what the schools are offering.
> Spainwise Recruitment Fair 2010 | www.spainwise.net
> There are talks too.
> The only down side is that the schools going so far are almost exclusively from Andalucia - there's one from Bilbao, one recruitment agency from the UK and I don't know if there are any more. Anyway, if you're in that area you should definitely go!


The Bilbao job looks amazing! Oh... oh... European passport. D'oh. 
Thanks for sharing the website!!!


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## Caz.I

Thanks for that Pesky. I think they have this fair every year in Cordoba, so they probably do live there. I didnt go last year but I think there were a few more schools from outside Andalucia represented so there might be more nearer the time.

Caz.I


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## varadagirl

Hello everyone! My husband is French and I'm American... we want to move to Barcelona. I came on a tourist visa and am wondering how difficult and timely it is to get a work visa for Spain. Any advice would be greatly appreciated! Thanks!


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## Stravinsky

varadagirl said:


> Hello everyone! My husband is French and I'm American... we want to move to Barcelona. I came on a tourist visa and am wondering how difficult and timely it is to get a work visa for Spain. Any advice would be greatly appreciated! Thanks!


This is the language section, could you kindly start your own thread on this in the main section for Spain


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## varadagirl

Stravinsky said:


> This is the language section, could you kindly start your own thread on this in the main section for Spain


Apologies, I'm new to this and am still trying to figure out exactly how it works. I'll start a new thread next time, thanks!


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## Pesky Wesky

Just to totally contradict the thread I posted on unemployment, in the last two weeks I have been offered about 12 hours of class, which is incredible at this time of year, so perhaps things are looking up!

It needs to be taken into consideration that 

This is through an ad I have on internet
It's for company classes
They need an experienced, trained teacher
It's for an area 30 mins from Madrid
 What I'm saying is the situation might be different in other parts of Spain, or for a newly qualified teacher etc

If anybody fits this description, let me know 'cos I can't do any of them!


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## xabiaxica

*A recent discussion*

http://www.expatforum.com/expats/spain-expat-forum-expats-living-spain/46608-english-teaching-again.html


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## Pesky Wesky

According to Esperanza Aguirre (president of Madrid) Native English teachers can not be contracted in state schools in the comunidad of Madrid. They can be given work as class assistants, but not as teachers due to an obselete law in the comunidad. Here's a short article in Spanish about it.
Aguirre pide una reforma legal que le permita contratar a profesores nativos - Noticias.com

I wonder if it's the same in other places in Spain:confused2:


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## Guest

Pesky Wesky said:


> According to Esperanza Aguirre (president of Madrid) Native English teachers can not be contracted in state schools in the comunidad of Madrid. They can be given work as class assistants, but not as teachers due to an obselete law in the comunidad. Here's a short article in Spanish about it.
> Aguirre pide una reforma legal que le permita contratar a profesores nativos - Noticias.com
> 
> I wonder if it's the same in other places in Spain:confused2:


No, we have a few native teachers on exchange up north. Also, any EU citizen can do the oposiciones as long as they have the required academic training. (Magesterio or CAP/Master in ESO.) 

I'd be interested to know just what she means.


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## xabiaxica

there was an Argentinian lady teaching English at a local primary school a couple of years ago, but I don't know of any native teachers around here


I don't know if it's allowed or not - but it would be very hard to get a job - you need fluent Valenciano as well as Castellano, so most teachers aren't just Spanish - they're local!


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## Pesky Wesky

halydia said:


> No, we have a few native teachers on exchange up north. Also, any EU citizen can do the oposiciones as long as they have the required academic training. (Magesterio or CAP/Master in ESO.)
> 
> I'd be interested to know just what she means.


Well, she's talking about Madrid, but I thought British Council was contracting native teachers here???
Halydia, you say there are teachers on _exchange_, but are they all _teachers_ and what do you mean on exchange? Sounds like they're not on a _funcionario_ contract??


----------



## Guest

Pesky Wesky said:


> Well, she's talking about Madrid, but I thought British Council was contracting native teachers here???
> Halydia, you say there are teachers on _exchange_, but are they all _teachers_ and what do you mean on exchange? Sounds like they're not on a _funcionario_ contract??


The woman I was thinking about is, I believe, through the British Council. She was working in one of the bilingual schools up here as a "proper" teacher, teaching science. I am unsure of her exact contract, be it funcionario or British Council. 

There's bunches of native auxiliares (English, French, and German) all over, but I've only met a few native "real teachers." 

There's at least one native I know who is a funcionario. She did, however, go through the opos. process, just like everyone else!


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## Pesky Wesky

halydia said:


> The woman I was thinking about is, I believe, through the British Council. She was working in one of the bilingual schools up here as a "proper" teacher, teaching science. I am unsure of her exact contract, be it funcionario or British Council.
> 
> There's bunches of native auxiliares (English, French, and German) all over, but I've only met a few native "real teachers."
> 
> There's at least one native I know who is a funcionario. She did, however, go through the opos. process, just like everyone else!


That's the thing, native speakers working in state schools, how many???
Seems like it's still not sorted, (and for teachers from the US I suppose it's still even more difficult). It seems that the positions that are being offered at the moment in *state bilingual* schools are as teaching assistants then. Can anyone confirm? Any idea of salary?

PS. How's it going for everyone out there in teaching land???
For me, so far so good. Everyone's carrying on for the moment - don't know about next academic year though...


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## Guest

Pesky Wesky said:


> That's the thing, native speakers working in state schools, how many???





> It seems that the positions that are being offered at the moment in *state bilingual* schools are as teaching assistants then. Can anyone confirm? Any idea of salary?


Native _speakers_: plenty. But, as you said, as teaching assistants. At least 50 in my dear little communidad, many more in Madrid. 700 tax-free EUR/month for 12 hours of work a week. October-May. Little to no ability to choose where you go within a specific comunidad.

For the amount we work, it's just about the same as what my OH makes as a "proper" teacher. 



> Seems like it's still not sorted, (and for teachers from the US I suppose it's still even more difficult).


I apologize, but I guess I'm not really understanding what you're looking for. Easy international (or at least inter-EU) teacher mobility? Wouldn't that require an entire overhaul of the teacher hiring system in Spain?


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## Pesky Wesky

halydia said:


> Native _speakers_: plenty. But, as you said, as teaching assistants. At least 50 in my dear little communidad, many more in Madrid. 700 tax-free EUR/month for 12 hours of work a week. October-May. Little to no ability to choose where you go within a specific comunidad.
> 
> For the amount we work, it's just about the same as what my OH makes as a "proper" teacher.
> 
> 
> 
> I apologize, but I guess I'm not really understanding what you're looking for. Easy international (or at least inter-EU) teacher mobility? Wouldn't that require an entire overhaul of the teacher hiring system in Spain?


Thanks for that info about native speakers working as teaching assistant and the salary.

But,

I don't understand the last comment. I'm not looking for anything. It seems that although we're both teachers of EFL we have trouble communicating to each other!


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## Guest

Pesky Wesky said:


> Thanks for that info about native speakers working as teaching assistant and the salary.
> 
> But,
> 
> I don't understand the last comment. I'm not looking for anything. It seems that although we're both teachers of EFL we have trouble communicating to each other!



Let's blame it on the... interesting... Spanish system. It's hard to describe even in Spanish!


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## Caz.I

I think the British council teachers are all based in northern and central Spain. The scheme doesn't seem to extend to Andalucia. I was suprised about that because it's more logical to me that they would have them in areas which have a big Brit expat community since the children will probably come into contact with a lot of Brits, particularly when they start work. 

As for full-time native teachers, I dont know of any in this area. I would imagine that because they have to have the specific Spanish qualifications there would be very few at the moment anyway who are able to do the oposiciones. Though perhaps you can do them if you have your qualifications validated here (although have heard that that process can take years) ? Anyway, I have heard from local people here that it's the enchufe system which decides who gets these jobs. 

Re the possibility of inter-EU mobility for teachers, I think the EU is trying to introduce a scheme (Europass) whereby all European qualifications are graded and standardised to a recognised European level. But I think it's still fairly new and will take a while before it is widely used. I dont think all countries have signed up for it yet either. But I dont think it would mean Spain would have to change the way they hire teachers but it might save a lot of time getting qualifications validated and so, in theory, make it easier for more native teachers to be employed. 

My son has an American teacher and I think most of the native English teachers are in Andalucian state schools but I am assuming she is a conversation assistant rather than a full-time teacher. Full-time native teachers seem to be unheard of locally.

PS. Pesky, re my classes, I have some lined up for summer but not as many as I had hoped. And I was definitely hoping for more in the mornings rather than the afternoons when its more difficult for me to work - not just due to the heat either. However, there is a possibility that I will have more term-time work from September or October, so am keeping my fingers crossed.


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## Pesky Wesky

Caz.I said:


> I think the British council teachers are all based in northern and central Spain. The scheme doesn't seem to extend to Andalucia. I was suprised about that because it's more logical to me that they would have them in areas which have a big Brit expat community since the children will probably come into contact with a lot of Brits, particularly when they start work.
> 
> As for full-time native teachers, I dont know of any in this area. I would imagine that because they have to have the specific Spanish qualifications there would be very few at the moment anyway who are able to do the oposiciones. Though perhaps you can do them if you have your qualifications validated here (although have heard that that process can take years) ? Anyway, I have heard from local people here that it's the enchufe system which decides who gets these jobs.
> 
> Re the possibility of inter-EU mobility for teachers, I think the EU is trying to introduce a scheme (Europass) whereby all European qualifications are graded and standardised to a recognised European level. But I think it's still fairly new and will take a while before it is widely used. I dont think all countries have signed up for it yet either. But I dont think it would mean Spain would have to change the way they hire teachers but it might save a lot of time getting qualifications validated and so, in theory, make it easier for more native teachers to be employed.
> 
> My son has an American teacher and I think most of the native English teachers are in Andalucian state schools but I am assuming she is a conversation assistant rather than a full-time teacher. Full-time native teachers seem to be unheard of locally.
> 
> PS. Pesky, re my classes, I have some lined up for summer but not as many as I had hoped. And I was definitely hoping for more in the mornings rather than the afternoons when its more difficult for me to work - not just due to the heat either. However, there is a possibility that I will have more term-time work from September or October, so am keeping my fingers crossed.


Hi Caz.I
I think what you say highlights the fact that every thing's so regional in Spain - it really depends where you're working. It doesn't seem then that there are any (or at least very few) native speakers working as class room teachers in state schools. The native speakers are employed as classroom assistants at the moment.
So, if you want to be a full blown teacher in the state system you need to do the state exams which are the oposiciones, and quite rightly so many people pointed out on the comments page of an article about Aguirre (see post above). Otherwise many Spanish English teachers would not be given the chance to opt for a post.
If the EU mobility thing came into action and all processes were equal, Spain would have to change it's present system, wouldn't it?

As for the work, maybe more things will come up for the summer.
Hope the term time stuff works out!


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## Guest

For those of you who read Spanish, here's an article about the upcoming teaching tests in Cantabria. A terrifying number of applicants! 

7.000 aspirantes a 219 plazas docentes en la oposición más concurrida hasta la fecha. eldiariomontanes.es

And the most terrifying part for me?: "...se abre la incógnita de cuándo será la siguiente convocatoria, ya que en 2011 toca hacer la oposición para los maestros de Primaria y, en 2012, ya no estará vigente el acuerdo que establecía las bases para reponer profesores. Si no se supera la situación de crisis económica y si no se prorroga el acuerdo estatal que permite a los docentes jubilarse a los 60 años, podrían pasar varios ejercicios sin una Oferta Pública de Empleo."

At least the good news is that I'll have a happy (I hope!) OH once again beginning 2 July.


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## BCNteacher

I agree, there are far too many "non professional" English teachers. Many don't know basic grammar. What is the difference between "Have to" and "must" for example.
I got jobs in teaching without any specific teaching qualification but I had a lot ofexperience.
I now help other teachers get better jobs here in Barcelona.


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## mysticflower

Hello!

Pardon me if I intrude, but I have been reading the posts and people should really be grateful to all the information you provide. I am, and because of seeing you are all very professional and with lots of experience I'd like to ask for some advice.

I applied for an EFL teaching job in San Fernando Cadiz, and I received an email telling me that they can offer me a (quote):

<<legal contract running from mid-September to June, all holidays included, that is: Christmas, Easter and any bank holidays here in Spain. The amount of hours we are talking about are approximately 70 a month (about 17 per week, Monday to Friday, afternoons only).The salary we would offer you the first year is 12,80 € an hour, disccounting taxes and social security would leave you with an approximate amount of 800 € a month.>>

Is this ok? Will I be able to survive with this salary per month, paying my bills, food, housing, transportation, etc?

I read about Cadiz online and it's a really nice region, but I also read that Andalusia is not doing well economically...What could should I do?

I deeply appreciate any little advice. Thank you!


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## jojo

mysticflower said:


> Hello!
> 
> Pardon me if I intrude, but I have been reading the posts and people should really be grateful to all the information you provide. I am, and because of seeing you are all very professional and with lots of experience I'd like to ask for some advice.
> 
> I applied for an EFL teaching job in San Fernando Cadiz, and I received an email telling me that they can offer me a (quote):
> 
> <<legal contract running from mid-September to June, all holidays included, that is: Christmas, Easter and any bank holidays here in Spain. The amount of hours we are talking about are approximately 70 a month (about 17 per week, Monday to Friday, afternoons only).The salary we would offer you the first year is 12,80 € an hour, disccounting taxes and social security would leave you with an approximate amount of 800 € a month.>>
> 
> Is this ok? Will I be able to survive with this salary per month, paying my bills, food, housing, transportation, etc?
> 
> I read about Cadiz online and it's a really nice region, but I also read that Andalusia is not doing well economically...What could should I do?
> 
> I deeply appreciate any little advice. Thank you!


It sounds good. Having a contract, eventho its short term is always good to enable you to forward plan!!! 

As for surviving on the salary, it depends on your lifestyle! Its not a huge amount, but probably doable as long as its just you and you live quite simply. You need to google some rental agencies in the area and see what and how much things are 

Jo xx


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## Guest

jojo said:


> As for surviving on the salary, it depends on your lifestyle! Its not a huge amount, but probably doable as long as its just you and you live quite simply. You need to google some rental agencies in the area and see what and how much things are
> 
> Jo xx



It's definitely doable but, as Jo said, living simply. I made it up north on 700/month, and I've heard things are cheaper in the south?


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## mysticflower

Oh, you are such sweet lovely people!!!

Thank you so so much!!! Wish I could do smth for you...

My life style is simple, just want to go to work come home have smth to cook- love cooking- have a clean room with bath and kitchen, be able to pay for electricity internet, heat and phone (I don't talk much on the phone) and maybe so some travel if there's money left. 
In Romania a teacher working for the public schools is paid between 180 euros to 420 the one about to retire with all the certifications taken. The food items are the same price as in Spain or higher. (I read 2 posts here where items were listed with theirs prices, in 2009)

I'm very grateful for the advice!!!


----------



## Guest

mysticflower said:


> Oh, you are such sweet lovely people!!!
> 
> Thank you so so much!!! Wish I could do smth for you...
> 
> My life style is simple, just want to go to work come home have smth to cook- love cooking- have a clean room with bath and kitchen, be able to pay for electricity internet, heat and phone (I don't talk much on the phone) and maybe so some travel if there's money left.
> In Romania a teacher working for the public schools is paid between 180 euros to 420 the one about to retire with all the certifications taken. The food items are the same price as in Spain or higher. (I read 2 posts here where items were listed with theirs prices, in 2009)
> 
> I'm very grateful for the advice!!!


If you live in a shared apartment, that should be more than doable!! Sounds like a very rough time for the teachers in Romania, if that's what they make a month. (And I thought Spain was bad!)

Best of luck!


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## Pesky Wesky

mysticflower said:


> Oh, you are such sweet lovely people!!!
> 
> Thank you so so much!!! Wish I could do smth for you...
> 
> My life style is simple, just want to go to work come home have smth to cook- love cooking- have a clean room with bath and kitchen, be able to pay for electricity internet, heat and phone (I don't talk much on the phone) and maybe so some travel if there's money left.
> In Romania a teacher working for the public schools is paid between 180 euros to 420 the one about to retire with all the certifications taken. The food items are the same price as in Spain or higher. (I read 2 posts here where items were listed with theirs prices, in 2009)
> 
> I'm very grateful for the advice!!!


I agree with Halydia and Jojo that it should be ok. Also, once you've got settled you should be able to get a couple of hours private classes for more or less the same hourly rate to supplement your income. 
You could possibly "pay us back" by telling us how you get on once you're over here, what the teaching's like and if you can really survive on that money.
PS It's true that Spain's economy is badly off at the moment and that Andalucia is not a rich part of Spain, but you've got a job and a contract, so you're doing really well!


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## mysticflower

halydia said:


> If you live in a shared apartment, that should be more than doable!! Sounds like a very rough time for the teachers in Romania, if that's what they make a month. (And I thought Spain was bad!)
> 
> Best of luck!




Thanks alot HALYDIA! Now, I'm somehow relieved and can email the manager that I'm interested.Hope the interview won't be too stressful and I'll manage just fine

Best of luck to you too!! Let me know if I can lend a hand ,somehow, someday


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## mysticflower

Pesky Wesky said:


> I agree with Halydia and Jojo that it should be ok. Also, once you've got settled you should be able to get a couple of hours private classes for more or less the same hourly rate to supplement your income.
> You could possibly "pay us back" by telling us how you get on once you're over here, what the teaching's like and if you can really survive on that money.
> PS It's true that Spain's economy is badly off at the moment and that Andalucia is not a rich part of Spain, but you've got a job and a contract, so you're doing really well!


Hi Pesky Wesky!

Thank you for the advice!! 
Oh, I'll definitely fill you in with how things are , if I manage to get by and pay my monthly internet subscription) 

I was thinking the same thing, if there are only 17 hours per week , I might be able to do smth else and supplement my income.

I don't have a contract yet, there's an interview to follow.

Blessings!!!


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## babelgirl

mysticflower said:


> Hello!
> 
> Pardon me if I intrude, but I have been reading the posts and people should really be grateful to all the information you provide. I am, and because of seeing you are all very professional and with lots of experience I'd like to ask for some advice.
> 
> I applied for an EFL teaching job in San Fernando Cadiz, and I received an email telling me that they can offer me a (quote):
> 
> <<legal contract running from mid-September to June, all holidays included, that is: Christmas, Easter and any bank holidays here in Spain. The amount of hours we are talking about are approximately 70 a month (about 17 per week, Monday to Friday, afternoons only).The salary we would offer you the first year is 12,80 € an hour, disccounting taxes and social security would leave you with an approximate amount of 800 € a month.>>
> 
> Is this ok? Will I be able to survive with this salary per month, paying my bills, food, housing, transportation, etc?
> 
> I read about Cadiz online and it's a really nice region, but I also read that Andalusia is not doing well economically...What could should I do?
> 
> I deeply appreciate any little advice. Thank you!


Hello Mystic Flower!

I don´t know if I can count myself as one of those professional and knowledgable people you mention (!) but here goes...

I would say that the amount of money you can expect depends on your qualifications and experience. If you have a CELTA, DELTA or other teaching qualifiation and not simply a TEFL, or have experience of teaching, you may earn more. 
17 hours a week is not a lot (I believe the average academy job to be 20-24 hrs per week) so you may be able to top-up your income with some private classes. 
Although 800€ for 17 hours isn´t terrible for a new teacher, 800 euros is not a lot to live on in a city. You may be able to find shared accommodation (approx 200-300€ a month) but renting a flat on your own may prove too pricey. 
The cost of fun things like a beer and a tapa  is relatively cheap in Spain and if you are here for a short time and are not thinking of making any major purchases, the salary may be enough to experience the place. As they say, the best things in life are free and you can explore and make friends on quite a low budget!
I´m basing all of this on my experiences in Toledo but am allowing for the fact that Cadiz is bigger!
Anyway, I hope this is of some help to you. 
Good luck in whatever you decide to do! 

Babelgirl xx


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## mysticflower

Babelgirl, I highly appreciate all you advice!!!

I'll let you guys know more when there's more..

Sweet evening!


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## mysticflower

Dear all,

I have news...not so great...I got no job after all, the job was suppose to be in Santiago de Compostela eventually but there it rains too much so I dropped the offer..plus I found no website of the school- if anyone wants to know let me and I;ll tell you in private so as no to interfere with the rules of the forum.

But now there's something else

I found this add where a school is doing a camp in Malaga and emailed and they said the want me as a camp monitor but do not want to give me a contract. They said they'd pay 500 euros for 10 days, and pay for my stay at the hostel/ hotel the first night( guess they pay out of my 500, right?) 
I told them it is really hard for me to trust them if I don't have a contract but htye said that they are a very are a serious school established since 2000 and have no intention of not paying 500 euros as agreed because they have always payed their teachers and monitors.

I quote <<there would be no time to sign a contract as the offices are in Murcia, you would have to queue for hours for being a foreigner etc...We think the esiest way is to send you a letter from our school as a formal invitation to come to the camp to see how we work and your interaction with the children regarding a prospective job offer for the future.We would include the dates and explain that all your expenses would be covered during this holiday.>>

I still find it hard to trust them...what do you think? tomorrow is the last day when I can buy the ticket to Spain....

Thank you all so much!!!


----------



## jojo

mysticflower said:


> I found this add where a school is doing a camp in Malaga and emailed and they said the want me as a camp monitor but do not want to give me a contract. They said they'd pay 500 euros for 10 days, and pay for my stay at the hostel/ hotel the first night( guess they pay out of my 500, right?)
> I told them it is really hard for me to trust them if I don't have a contract but htye said that they are a very are a serious school established since 2000 and have no intention of not paying 500 euros as agreed because they have always payed their teachers and monitors.
> 
> I quote <<there would be no time to sign a contract as the offices are in Murcia, you would have to queue for hours for being a foreigner etc...We think the esiest way is to send you a letter from our school as a formal invitation to come to the camp to see how we work and your interaction with the children regarding a prospective job offer for the future.We would include the dates and explain that all your expenses would be covered during this holiday.>>
> 
> I still find it hard to trust them...what do you think? tomorrow is the last day when I can buy the ticket to Spain....
> 
> Thank you all so much!!!


Whats the name of the Málaga school?? I live in the Málaga area and may know of them! Its not unusul for companies not to give out contracts due to the employment laws here (think cash in hand in the UK) but it doesnt give you a definate guarantee, but if you wanna take a leap of faith - if all else fails you get a holiday ????!

jo xxx


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## mysticflower

OH jojo you are such a treasure!!!

The name of the school is studioland - the have a website, you'll find it with google. and the camp will be in Sayalonga Malaga. Do you know this site?


I thought they might prefer to pay without a contract as it is easier...but it's really hard for me to trust people these days...

I asked them if I could bring kids from Romania to the camp next year and or course the kids will pay the camp, but they did not answer anything... Was that a bad question to ask???
Am I asking too many questions and maybe I should not....


----------



## jojo

I've never heard of them or the camp, but that doesnt mean they dont exist. I'll see if I can find anything out

Anyone else know anything????

Jo xxx


----------



## xabiaxica

mysticflower said:


> Dear all,
> 
> I have news...not so great...I got no job after all, the job was suppose to be in Santiago de Compostela eventually but there it rains too much so I dropped the offer..plus I found no website of the school- if anyone wants to know let me and I;ll tell you in private so as no to interfere with the rules of the forum.
> 
> But now there's something else
> 
> I found this add where a school is doing a camp in Malaga and emailed and they said the want me as a camp monitor but do not want to give me a contract. They said they'd pay 500 euros for 10 days, and pay for my stay at the hostel/ hotel the first night( guess they pay out of my 500, right?)
> I told them it is really hard for me to trust them if I don't have a contract but htye said that they are a very are a serious school established since 2000 and have no intention of not paying 500 euros as agreed because they have always payed their teachers and monitors.
> 
> I quote <<there would be no time to sign a contract as the offices are in Murcia, you would have to queue for hours for being a foreigner etc...We think the esiest way is to send you a letter from our school as a formal invitation to come to the camp to see how we work and your interaction with the children regarding a prospective job offer for the future.We would include the dates and explain that all your expenses would be covered during this holiday.>>
> 
> I still find it hard to trust them...what do you think? tomorrow is the last day when I can buy the ticket to Spain....
> 
> Thank you all so much!!!


to me it sounds as if it's a summer camp & they don't have enough monitors - the 10 day monitor position I would think is genuine - the mention of a possible future job is probably just a carrot


----------



## mysticflower

what about the pay?

Are monitors so hard to find in Spain? if yes , why?


----------



## xabiaxica

mysticflower said:


> what about the pay?
> 
> Are monitors so hard to find in Spain? if yes , why?


it's usually _very_ long hours in these summer camps - and a monitor usually isn't a teacher - just an extra adult body to keep the adult/child ratio up & organise the non-learning activities


----------



## Pesky Wesky

mysticflower said:


> But now there's something else
> 
> I found this add where a school is doing a camp in Malaga and emailed and they said the want me as a camp monitor but do not want to give me a contract. They said they'd pay 500 euros for 10 days, and pay for my stay at the hostel/ hotel the first night( guess they pay out of my 500, right?)
> I told them it is really hard for me to trust them if I don't have a contract but htye said that they are a very are a serious school established since 2000 and have no intention of not paying 500 euros as agreed because they have always payed their teachers and monitors.
> 
> I quote <<there would be no time to sign a contract as the offices are in Murcia, you would have to queue for hours for being a foreigner etc...We think the esiest way is to send you a letter from our school as a formal invitation to come to the camp to see how we work and your interaction with the children regarding a prospective job offer for the future.We would include the dates and explain that all your expenses would be covered during this holiday.>>
> 
> I still find it hard to trust them...what do you think? tomorrow is the last day when I can buy the ticket to Spain....
> 
> Thank you all so much!!!


 
If it's a serious school, why are they looking for monitors at the last moment and why are they not offering a contract? True somebody could have dropped out, but a good school normally has a plan B and covers their bases better.
What I don't understand is you would have to queue for hours for being a foreigner 
and
We think the esiest way is to send you a letter from our school as a formal invitation 

That's not to say you shouldn't come - it depends on what your circumstances are, what you are leaving behind. If you haven't got anything better where you are and you are genuinely interested in Spain you could give it a try and if it doesn't work out you can have a holiday as Jo says, and try to get interviews at other schools... But only you can make that decision.

By the way, I don't know if that's a good rate or not


----------



## xabiaxica

Pesky Wesky said:


> If it's a serious school, why are they looking for monitors at the last moment and why are they not offering a contract? True somebody could have dropped out, but a good school normally has a plan B and covers their bases better.
> What I don't understand is you would have to queue for hours for being a foreigner
> and
> We think the esiest way is to send you a letter from our school as a formal invitation
> 
> That's not to say you shouldn't come - it depends on what your circumstances are, what you are leaving behind. If you haven't got anything better where you are and you are genuinely interested in Spain you could give it a try and if it doesn't work out you can have a holiday as Jo says, and try to get interviews at other schools... But only you can make that decision.
> 
> By the way, I don't know if that's a good rate or not


I don't understand the bits you highlighted either - isn't Romania in the EU?

also bearing in mind that a monitor will probably be on duty 10+ hours a day - it doesn't come out to much an hour, does it?


----------



## jojo

I cant find Studioland, malaga?? Do you have a link you can post Mystic????

Jo xxx


----------



## xabiaxica

jojo said:


> I cant find Studioland, malaga?? Do you have a link you can post Mystic????
> 
> Jo xxx


Estudioland escuela de idiomas en la Manga del Mar Menor


----------



## mysticflower

I understand less than u all do 

Ro is part of the EU unless those at the school do not know, but I'm sure they know.

Will they have to pay the state if they make a contract? Do I need an social security number so as to be able to have a contract? I asked how much will I be left of the 500 euros after the taxes and they said, there'll be no taxes from the school.

Why would they want me? and not smb from Spain? already there?either pay me less or nothing at all or they really cannot find another monitor?...


----------



## mysticflower

yes, that is the site! I hope they won't hate me for talking about them here now...but it's just a suspicious situation for me, and I mean no harm to them.


----------



## xabiaxica

mysticflower said:


> I understand less than u all do
> 
> Ro is part of the EU unless those at the school do not know, but I'm sure they know.
> 
> Will they have to pay the state if they make a contract? Do I need an social security number so as to be able to have a contract? I asked how much will I be left of the 500 euros after the taxes and they said, there'll be no taxes from the school.
> 
> Why would they want me? and not smb from Spain? already there?either pay me less or nothing at all or they really cannot find another monitor?...


yes you'd need a NIE & sign on the residents list to get a contract - but I can't imagine them giving _anyone_ a contract for 10 days work - not even a Spanish national

and yes - it would cost them money if they gave someone a contract - if they don't do so they would just 'assume' that you are autonomo & that you will deal with your own insurance & tax payments

in reality I'm sure that they just expect to pay 'on the black' - especially since you don't live here

as to why they don't have staff lined up this late - who knows??


----------



## Caz.I

Yes, I doubt they would bother giving a contract for 10 days, it was probably just the only excuse they could come up with - unless they meant queuing up for an NIE. And maybe they were just speechless at the idea of someone actually bringing students to them! 

As you point out, camp monitor is probably a lot of hours for not that much pay but I suppose if the OP wants to try out working and teaching in Spain, then it's a start, although there doesnt sound like there is any teaching. If you are young and have nothing to lose, then, maybe it would be ok. I have seen quite a few ads for summer camps on TEFL.com and quite often they are advertising till the last minute. Since it's supposed to be quite hard work maybe a lot of people dont come back for a second time?


----------



## mysticflower

Thank you all for sharing what you think!! 

Is 29 old? for camp monitor? 

Ok, I feel much better now considering that it's easier for them not to offer me a contract , pay on the blank.

Just thought people might want to trick me...

Regarding bringing students to them....did I say smth wrong? why should they be speechless? should I never mention it again? to anyone?

There are students, kids in RO who would love to go to English camps abroad if it's not very expensive.


----------



## Caz.I

No, no, 29 is not too old - to me, that is young! Anyway, I meant young in the sense of not having ties or anything you are giving up (like a good job). 

Of course you didnt say anything wrong - I was just being sarcastic - I meant that they were speechless because they probably arent used to people being so helpful. You would be doing them an enormous favour.

And, although we are saying they may not bother with the contract just because it is only for 10 days, if I were you I would still make sure the letter states the pay and the conditions you have agreed to.


----------



## mysticflower

Caz.I thank you so much for the advice!!

I did want them to state on the letter the sum but they just don't want that...probably are afraid the Spanish state see it and catch them paying me in blank ..or such...am I wrong?

I have vacation here in Ro, school is over till September so I can go. Haven;t been to Spain before!!Love France though- south.

Anyways I hope all will be ok , and at least I get the money I spent on my bus tickets from and to Ro...if not making any money at least not spending any if this can be real?!

I'll let you know what happened!
Just hope there are at least nice people and nice kids there.

Oh just remembered...I asked how much was for a child to go to that camp, how much money must a child pay, and this they also did not answer .... I did not want to know for me , just in case kids from Ro would wanna go....I don't know maybe it's a culture thing...I know I won't be asking other things.. just my necessities.

The best to you all!!!Blessings!


----------



## jojo

I hope we have been able to help you. Sorry I vanished during all of this, I had some friends round for a BBQ - they havent heard of this school either, but thats no surprise. Keep us posted and if we can help with anything else let us know

Jo xxx


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## mysticflower

Jojo thank you so much for all!!!

I asked the ladies at the camp to send me a pic with them in the morning and they have not sent anything yet...


In the meantime I applied for a secretary job..on infoempleo and I have received this answer which I'll paste below, but I don't know what to do...I did office work at school, we all have to in Ro, but ....my Spanish in writing is not perfect and I did mention it when I applied....guess they like the fact that I know ROmanian and they also have business in Romania....

What should I do? 
Thanks

<<Hola, buenas tardes, has sido elegida por su curriculum entre 120 c.v., como candidata a un puesto de secretaria de dirección, el cual, y en rasgos generales te comento a continuación.

El puesto como su nombre indica es ser la secretaria de directores de nuestra empresa, al que ayudarías, con tu trabajo, a que realice sus funciones mas rápida y eficazmente, para ello tendrías que llevarle su agenda de reuniones, comidas, actos públicos y privados, viajes, teléfono, eventos estando presente en todo estos tipos de actos. Para ello es necesario tener una gran flexibilidad horaria, disponibilidad para viajar y carnet de conducir.. La disponibilidad para viajar es porque tenemos clientes y proveedores en bastantes puntos de España, Francia, Estados Unidos, Europa, etc y en todos y cada uno de los viajes debéis acompañar a nuestro director.

Nuestra empresa se dedica a la enseñanza de economía y empresa, a inversiones en todo tipo de inmuebles y en bolsa y operaciones de alto rendimiento financiero en cualquier parte del mundo.
Se le hará un contrato indefinido desde el primer día, después de haber pasado la última prueba y en dicho contrato el primer mes es de prueba, si pasa el periodo de prueba se quedaría indefinidamente en la empresa. El sueldo va a oscilar el primer mes entre 1200 y 2000 € y todos los gastos pagados de cualquier clase y cuando pase el primer mes según la valía de la candidata se irá incrementando según su capacidad y el informe de su director. En dicho trabajo podrás hacer todo tipo de cosas tales como ir al buzón de correos a echar una carta o reunirse con el máximo mandatario de una multinacional pasando por otras muchas tareas.

Le agradecería que me respondiese al correo cuanto antes indicandome si estaría dispuesta a trabajar en España con nosotros. Usted estaría principalmente desempeñando sus funciones en nuestra empresa de aqui de España y 2 veces viajaría a Rumanía donde tenemos proyectos de realizar negocios muy brevemente.

Espero su respuesta, y en caso de ser afirmativa nos pondriamos rápidamente en contacto con usted.

Muchas gracias y un cordial saludo,

EUROSUR S.L.
>>>


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## Caz.I

Sounds a million times better than the camp monitor job!


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## Guest

But what worries me is I can't find a website for their company. Plus, does the salary compensate for the travel requirements? If you're young and not tied down travel like that could be a lot of fun.


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## mysticflower

Thanks everyone!

Just got home with the ticket for Spain - that camp- we'll see how it goes...

Regarding this other job...emailed the gentleman and told him I'd love to take the job and have an interview, but also mentioned I' ll be in Spain from the 12th till the 26th or so.. and also underlined the fact that my spanish is not that good but, I do want to improve it

I can't wait to see what will be the reply...

I think this is the website
EUROSUR

Not really sure though...

Blessings!


----------



## Guest

mysticflower said:


> Thanks everyone!
> 
> Just got home with the ticket for Spain - that camp- we'll see how it goes...
> 
> Regarding this other job...emailed the gentleman and told him I'd love to take the job and have an interview, but also mentioned I' ll be in Spain from the 12th till the 26th or so.. and also underlined the fact that my spanish is not that good but, I do want to improve it
> 
> I can't wait to see what will be the reply...
> 
> I think this is the website
> EUROSUR
> 
> Not really sure though...
> 
> Blessings!


Found that one, but I don't think that's their website as they say: "Nuestra empresa se dedica a la enseñanza de economía y empresa, a inversiones en todo tipo de inmuebles y en bolsa y operaciones de alto rendimiento financiero en cualquier parte del mundo."


Good luck with camp! If anything, it's a good excuse to get to Spain. Some of my coworkers have done camps here, and I haven't heard complaints. Have a safe trip!


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## Caz.I

Yes, good luck, Mystic Flower, and please let us know how you get on! Am sure there's a lot of people who may be thinking about working at a summer camp and would love to know what it's like.


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## mysticflower

Hi everyone!!! hope you´re all doing fine!

Finished my summer camp job and I did get paid as they said. It was really tough but I went there to work not have fun an dI am happy they did pay me.

I feel bad the EUROSUR company did not reply anymore after I said I´m going to a camp...they probably wanted staff right away...

I am in Cartagena now at the hotel and I love the city!! Been here since Sunday!Wanna find a job here but I only have today and tomorrow morning back to Romania( 

Do you know anything about Cartagena?anyone living here to go out for a coffee? 

Thank you!!
XOX


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## Caz.I

Well glad to hear that you got paid okay and everything worked out. Sorry, dont know anything about Cartagena but why dont you go to the tourist office and ask for a list of the language schools then go round with your curriculum?


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## Pesky Wesky

*tefl jobs*

Just thought I'd give a summer update on jobs. This link shows you a lot of what's available for next year
Vacancies in the database - TEFL.com[cou_id]=196
Obviously not a lot of summer work as all the positions will have been given by now. This is one of the best sites for jobs all over Spain and now is the time to be looking. There will also be quite a lot on offer in September although you'll probably see the wide range of locations shrink somewhat. All the positions I looked at asked for qualifications and experience...
As for my own experience, I would say there has been a huge drop in the number of people phoning about classes. For people like myself who are freelance and already here I think we've managed to hold on to the business we've already got. My impresion is that for a newcomer it would be more difficult, but here in Madrid probably not impossible.
How about other teachers out there?


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## Caz.I

Down here, and I think, in general, in the provinces, the work is mainly teaching children and I think there may be some opportunities in the academies, but fewer than normal, and am sure there are a lot more teachers chasing these jobs. I imagine there are more opportunities for business English in the cities and of course there are more adults who are now unemployed and want to improve their English, but not many can afford private classes.

For me, personally, July was quite busy though a bit sporadic with people disappearing on holiday. August is going to be much quieter as is usual down here. In fact, this week I only have one class so I might actually visit the beach a couple of times this week! But I have had enquiries about classes in September and 2 new adult students have just started, but adults are less reliable IMO (see the Obama thread!) Actually, I have had to turn down a couple of students in September as I cant work any more evenings without paying for childcare, which cancels out the income.


----------



## Guest

I got my beca again - woohoo! I was quite nervous due to the number of applications and the fact that selection was based on points, just like the opos. I'm hoping to do a master through UNED this year, shooting for the oposiciones in 2012. 

Hope all is going well for everyone!


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## Pesky Wesky

halydia said:


> I got my beca again - woohoo! I was quite nervous due to the number of applications and the fact that selection was based on points, just like the opos. I'm hoping to do a master through UNED this year, shooting for the oposiciones in 2012.
> 
> Hope all is going well for everyone!


Well done halydia, glad everything's working out for you!


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## Caz.I

Yes well done, Halydia.


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## Guest

Do any of you translate in addition to teaching? If so, how have you found translating? My OH's cousin has drafted me to help him in communicating with non-Spanish clients. I'm having a lot of fun and thinking that in the future it could be an interesting "addition."


----------



## xabiaxica

halydia said:


> Do any of you translate in addition to teaching? If so, how have you found translating? My OH's cousin has drafted me to help him in communicating with non-Spanish clients. I'm having a lot of fun and thinking that in the future it could be an interesting "addition."


I do a bit of interpreting & translating - some online

paper translations only into English, but obviously face to face has to go both ways!!

it's not something I 'put myself out there' for particularly, more just on request

I do find translating documents very interesting & sometimes educational!

I am seriously considering taking a medical translators course


----------



## Caz.I

Yes, I have also done some occasional translation work from Spanish to English, although like Xabiachica, I havent really put myself up for it, not having the confidence to do so anyway - I know I would be competing with "official" translators. It has mainly been things like reports or estimates. 

Funnily enough, it has always come up through teaching, via the students - Either through the companies they work for or through their partners' business. I do enjoy it but I cant imagine there would be many opportunities other than the occasional document.

Havent done any interpreting, other than to help out a friend or neighbour, wouldnt be confident enough to do it professionally, especially if it meant interpreting a strong Andaluz accent! Still have trouble with those!


----------



## country boy

Caz.I said:


> Havent done any interpreting, other than to help out a friend or neighbour, wouldnt be confident enough to do it professionally, especially if it meant interpreting a strong Andaluz accent! Still have trouble with those!



I just love this:


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## Caz.I

Ha Ha!! Brilliant!


----------



## Carloz

I've done some translating - I've even advertised on LoQuo at times, but not in a while as I haven't needed the extra money. I find it not that compatible with teaching, as they usually want the job done ASAP. The times it's really worked well is when I've gotten a request on a Friday and have been able to spend all weekend on it.


----------



## Dina_M

*More info...*

Hola!

I just became an English teacher in June and I have had plenty of work come my way, so, don't worry about that aspect of it. People are very excited to hear that you teach English because a lot of people want teachers for themselves (for their jobs) or for their children.

I would reccomend getting a certification, but it doesn't have to be CELTA or DELTA, a simple TEFL certificate will do (It's what I have). Also, depending on where you're from, you may have limits on how many hours you can work. For instance, I can only legally work 20 hours a week, because I have a student visa. 

Teaching is a very rewarding and fun job and the school that I went to has helped me immensely in finding jobs. They guaranteed jobs, and they delivered. If you are interested in finding out more about them or just have anymore questions, please feel free to email me or respond here. 

Best of luck!
Dina


----------



## jojo

Dina_M said:


> Teaching is a very rewarding and fun job and the school that I went to has helped me immensely in finding jobs. They guaranteed jobs, and they delivered. If you are interested in finding out more about them or just have anymore questions, please feel free to email me or respond here.
> 
> Best of luck!
> Dina


Altho it would be interesting to know in the current economic climate what school can possibly guarantee jobs that pay decent wages and find work that is contractual and therefore legal, unless of course its perhaps financially funded by its pupils???, I must warn you that we dont allow adverts on the forum

Jo


----------



## Guest

jojo said:


> work that is contractual and therefore legal


...especially for non-EU citizens.


----------



## Dina_M

Hello all, 

As a fellow English teacher, I thought I would also give me own advice as well.

You don't need to have a CELTA or TRINITY certificate in order to teach, I don't. I have a TEFL certificate from a very well-respected school here in Madrid. That being said, I have had plenty of work in the short time I have been here. In fact, I even got work with a prestigious academy slightly outside of the city. They are going to be offering me some major block hours for the upcoming Academic year as well. 

Work ethic has a lot to do with your success in teaching English here. If you are responsible, plan and show up on time for every class, that puts you way ahead of everyone else. It is the main reason I've been quickly able to build a solid reputation and a good repuation will get you jobs-lots of them. Too many young "kids" come here looking to travel for a year or so and then they'll be gone. I know Madrid will be my home for a couple of years. If this is also your plan, put it on your CV-employers like to see that you aren't one of the "fly-by-nighters."

As for the experience piece, it's nice, but not always necessary. While it is true that some schools who take you in without much experience are not always the most reputable, you can usually verify this very quickly. If it's not for you and you haven't signed a contract, leave. Don't accept any less than 15 Euros an hour (unless absolutely desperate, and even then, try to avoid it), because they're in it to rip off their students, not teach them. There are however, some schools out there that are decent and if you are new, will allow you to put something on your resume. If it's a short-term agreement, even better (like in the summer months).

If you are looking to get into teaching, it's a lot of fun and it's also a lot of hard-work. If you are new, don't worry, you will still find work. You will have to network like crazy though, especially in the beginning. If you have any questions you can always feel free to email me and I'll be happy to help you if I can  

Dina


----------



## xabiaxica

Dina_M said:


> Hello all,
> 
> As a fellow English teacher, I thought I would also give me own advice as well.
> 
> You don't need to have a CELTA or TRINITY certificate in order to teach, I don't. I have a TEFL certificate from a very well-respected school here in Madrid. That being said, I have had plenty of work in the short time I have been here. In fact, I even got work with a prestigious academy slightly outside of the city. They are going to be offering me some major block hours for the upcoming Academic year as well.
> 
> Work ethic has a lot to do with your success in teaching English here. If you are responsible, plan and show up on time for every class, that puts you way ahead of everyone else. It is the main reason I've been quickly able to build a solid reputation and a good repuation will get you jobs-lots of them. Too many young "kids" come here looking to travel for a year or so and then they'll be gone. I know Madrid will be my home for a couple of years. If this is also your plan, put it on your CV-employers like to see that you aren't one of the "fly-by-nighters."
> 
> As for the experience piece, it's nice, but not always necessary. While it is true that some schools who take you in without much experience are not always the most reputable, you can usually verify this very quickly. If it's not for you and you haven't signed a contract, leave. Don't accept any less than 15 Euros an hour (unless absolutely desperate, and even then, try to avoid it), because they're in it to rip off their students, not teach them. There are however, some schools out there that are decent and if you are new, will allow you to put something on your resume. If it's a short-term agreement, even better (like in the summer months).
> 
> If you are looking to get into teaching, it's a lot of fun and it's also a lot of hard-work. If you are new, don't worry, you will still find work. You will have to network like crazy though, especially in the beginning. If you have any questions you can always feel free to email me and I'll be happy to help you if I can
> 
> Dina


I think it would be more helpful to everyone if the questions were asked here in the open forum & your answers would be accessible to many more people

after all - that's what forums are for!


----------



## Dina_M

xabiachica said:


> I think it would be more helpful to everyone if the questions were asked here in the open forum & your answers would be accessible to many more people
> 
> after all - that's what forums are for!


I was just going by what I was reading in the beginning-people were giving their thoughts on teaching in Spain. I thought that was what I was supposed to do, but guess not. Is it only certain people's opinions/thoughts that count?


----------



## xabiaxica

Dina_M said:


> I was just going by what I was reading in the beginning-people were giving their thoughts on teaching in Spain. I thought that was what I was supposed to do, but guess not. Is it only certain people's opinions/thoughts that count?


everyone's opinions count - which is why we'd like yours on the forum

not by e-mail as you keep suggesting people e-mail you


----------



## jojo

As Xabiachica says, all opinions and thoughts are important on the forum - thats the whole point of a forum. It serves no one if everyone then just e-mails privately!! I'm very hazy on the whole visa thing??! Have you managed to get around that without incident so far??

Jo xxx


----------



## Dina_M

jojo said:


> As Xabiachica says, all opinions and thoughts are important on the forum - thats the whole point of a forum. It serves no one if everyone then just e-mails privately!! I'm very hazy on the whole visa thing??! Have you managed to get around that without incident so far??
> 
> Jo xxx


Yes, actually.... It is good for one year and I am expecting to renew it for a second year as well, so I can stay here at least a couple of years. I am unsure at this point whether or not I will stay beyond that. 

As an American, I have more restrictions than an EU citizen. I can only work 20 hours legally. Of course, that doesn't include any private lessons that I may do. There are some workplaces that require an actual work permit, but they seem to be few and far between, at least from what I've seen so far. A lot of places accept the student work Visa. In fact, the academy I am working for just recently changed their policy to accept student Visas because they wanted to add American teachers to their roster as well. 

If I do stay beyond the two years, I am not sure that I can get another Visa or not. By the time I go home for the holidays, I should know whether or not I will be staying beyond that time.


----------



## Pesky Wesky

Dina_M said:


> Hello all,
> 
> As a fellow English teacher, I thought I would also give me own advice as well.
> 
> You don't need to have a CELTA or TRINITY certificate in order to teach, I don't. I have a TEFL certificate from a very well-respected school here in Madrid. That being said, I have had plenty of work in the short time I have been here. In fact, I even got work with a prestigious academy slightly outside of the city. They are going to be offering me some major block hours for the upcoming Academic year as well.
> 
> Work ethic has a lot to do with your success in teaching English here. If you are responsible, plan and show up on time for every class, that puts you way ahead of everyone else. It is the main reason I've been quickly able to build a solid reputation and a good repuation will get you jobs-lots of them. Too many young "kids" come here looking to travel for a year or so and then they'll be gone. I know Madrid will be my home for a couple of years. If this is also your plan, put it on your CV-employers like to see that you aren't one of the "fly-by-nighters."
> 
> As for the experience piece, it's nice, but not always necessary. While it is true that some schools who take you in without much experience are not always the most reputable, you can usually verify this very quickly. If it's not for you and you haven't signed a contract, leave. Don't accept any less than 15 Euros an hour (unless absolutely desperate, and even then, try to avoid it), because they're in it to rip off their students, not teach them. There are however, some schools out there that are decent and if you are new, will allow you to put something on your resume. If it's a short-term agreement, even better (like in the summer months).
> 
> If you are looking to get into teaching, it's a lot of fun and it's also a lot of hard-work. If you are new, don't worry, you will still find work. You will have to network like crazy though, especially in the beginning. If you have any questions you can always feel free to email me and I'll be happy to help you if I can
> 
> Dina


Hi Dina,
Thanks for telling your side of the story.
I agree that experience isn't always necessary, you have to start somewhere, but obviously you'll have more jobs to choose from if you've got experience and you'll probably get better pay.There's no arguing that the top schools in Madrid ask for at least one years experience or more. The important thing is if you're here already and not applying from abroad, you _*can*_ get that experience.
I also agree that professionalism in your approach, your work ethic as you say, is vital. It's helps everyone - students, employers and not least yourself. However only the good academies, the ones who care about the quality of teaching, will recognise your efforts. There can be such a high turnover in Madrid of both students (it's difficult to commit for twice weekly classes for years) and teachers (many are on their way to South America for example) that some places just don't care.
Your right it _*is*_ hard work, but can be so much fun too, can't it??
Would love to hear more of your ups and downs (don't seem to have had any?!) so keep on posting.
By the way, do you speak Spanish? Have you found that you've needed to to find work? My experience has been that to work in academies I didn't need it, but when I became freelance I definitely needed to communicate with all types of people in companies in Spanish.


----------



## xabiaxica

Pesky Wesky said:


> Hi Dina,
> Thanks for telling your side of the story.
> I agree that experience isn't always necessary, you have to start somewhere, but obviously you'll have more jobs to choose from if you've got experience and you'll probably get better pay.There's no arguing that the top schools in Madrid ask for at least one years experience or more. The important thing is if you're here already and not applying from abroad, you _*can*_ get that experience.
> I also agree that professionalism in your approach, your work ethic as you say, is vital. It's helps everyone - students, employers and not least yourself. However only the good academies, the ones who care about the quality of teaching, will recognise your efforts. There can be such a high turnover in Madrid of both students (it's difficult to commit for twice weekly classes for years) and teachers (many are on their way to South America for example) that some places just don't care.
> Your right it _*is*_ hard work, but can be so much fun too, can't it??
> Would love to hear more of your ups and downs (don't seem to have had any?!) so keep on posting.
> By the way, do you speak Spanish? Have you found that you've needed to to find work? My experience has been that to work in academies I didn't need it, but when I became freelance I definitely needed to communicate with all types of people in companies in Spanish.


oddly I would never have got a job in the academy I used to work in without pretty good Spanish - the interview was in Spanish as was all the paperwork


I actually had a couple of parents complain that I spoke English to their kids - that's what they were there to learn


yes, for freelance it's essential to be able to communicate in Spanish


----------



## Pesky Wesky

xabiachica said:


> oddly I would never have got a job in the academy I used to work in without pretty good Spanish - the interview was in Spanish as was all the paperwork
> 
> 
> I actually had a couple of parents complain that I spoke English to their kids - that's what they were there to learn
> 
> 
> yes, for freelance it's essential to be able to communicate in Spanish


I don't know, but I _think_ one of the differences might be that in Madrid, many of the bigger schools are run by native speakers whereas in the south I've seen lots of smaller schools run by the Spanish. 

And before you all write in to complain - yes, the are examples of all types of school in all places.


----------



## xabiaxica

Pesky Wesky said:


> I don't know, but I _think_ one of the differences might be that in Madrid, many of the bigger schools are run by native speakers whereas in the south I've seen lots of smaller schools run by the Spanish.
> 
> And before you all write in to complain - yes, the are examples of all types of school in all places.


that might have something to do with it - the one I worked for was in fact run by a German!!


Spanish was a common language for all the teachers




I _did_ learn to swear a bit in German while I was there though


----------



## giritana

Hi all - and thanks, Dina, for sharing your info. with us here. 

I arrived after some 30 years working in the field of Education in England - mostly as an English teacher in Sec. schools but also in Community Education - Youth -work and Adult Ed. - within a variety of settings. I chose to update my somewhat elderly qualifications by studying for a new O.U. degree, (distance learning), prior to leaving the U.K. and gaining the Cambridge CELTA at a London English academy. I then took a second course at a Barcelona academy.(many more nationalities represented in the London classes, lol!). 
Luckily, I was then able to work in England for some months, teaching company reps. and also as a volunteer with newly arrived refugees and asylum seekers. This gave me the necessary confidence to plan my new career and life in Spain! 

My own experience both in Asturias and here in Cadiz, has been that academies have required job applicants to possess either the CELTA or Trinity College equivalent - with the DELTA for prospective DOS's (course Directors). 
It depends on the numbers of available teachers, I suppose, and whether the Directors and students want British or American English to be taught. Certainly, my friend's 8 year teaching experience in Barcelona has been the same - she originates from London - with a surfeit of newly trained EFL teachers there, the best academies can afford to be choosier, re. qualifications, presumably. No doubt, American English is also requested by some students in that city as well as in Madrid, whilst others have no preference.

However, as a teacher now working independently, I've been hugely disappointed and very surprised at the total lack of interest in any proof of my claimed qualifications, re. my own C.V. - as demonstrated by individuals wanting private lessons with me! I always conduct a 'mini -interview' with each student, in a local cafeteria, before we determine whether we're mutually happy to go ahead. I present my C.V. and explain my previous experience, by way of introduction - inevitably, it's then brushed aside, usually with an airy wave and an assurance that this total stranger has complete trust in me and doesn't need to see my paper qualifications - presumably, it's enough that I've stated in my internet -based advert that I'm a native British English speaker and a qualified highly experienced teacher, lol! 

Nevertheless, I always insist that we peruse my CV together - it cost me years of blood, sweat and tears, after all, not to mention a fortune, re. the O.U. degree and the CELTA!...!

I realise, nowadays, it's enough that I took those courses for my own sake - I certainly have found both the practice and theory to have been incredibly useful in my teaching here in Spain - and in making the switch from teaching English in UK educational establishments. I also thoroughly enjoyed the content of the O.U. courses - but for many of my Spanish students, all that extra slog and huge financial outlay on my part has proved to be totally unnecessary - but, they do care that I speak with what they consider to be a _'standard British accent'_, lol! I've tried explaining how linguists no longer regard certain native forms of English as being less acceptable than others - only as different, though totally authentic varieties - it doesn't wash with my lot...!


----------



## Pesky Wesky

giritana said:


> Hi all - and thanks, Dina, for sharing your info. with us here.
> 
> _*My own experience both in Asturias and here in Cadiz, has been that academies have required job applicants to possess either the CELTA or Trinity College equivalent - with the DELTA for prospective DOS's (course Directors).
> It depends on the numbers of available teachers, I suppose, and whether the Directors and students want British or American English to be taught. Certainly, my friend's 8 year teaching experience in Barcelona has been the same - she originates from London - with a surfeit of newly trained EFL teachers there, the best academies can afford to be choosier, re. qualifications, presumably.*_
> 
> _My experience too, but there are always exceptions to the rules I suppose!_
> 
> *However, as a teacher now working independently, I've been hugely disappointed and very surprised at the total lack of interest in any proof of my claimed qualifications, re. my own C.V. - as demonstrated by individuals wanting private lessons with me! I always conduct a 'mini -interview' with each student, in a local cafeteria, before we determine whether we're mutually happy to go ahead. I present my C.V. and explain my previous experience, by way of introduction - inevitably, it's then brushed aside, usually with an airy wave and an assurance that this total stranger has complete trust in me and doesn't need to see my paper qualifications - presumably, it's enough that I've stated in my internet -based advert that I'm a native British English speaker and a qualified highly experienced teacher, lol! *
> 
> _Also my experience with private students, but not so with company classes. However, I don't think anyone has ever followed up my referees. I have sometimes taken in a letter of recommendation to an interview, but they've never followed up off their own bat_
> _*Nevertheless, I always insist that we peruse my CV together - it cost me years of blood, sweat and tears, after all, not to mention a fortune, re. the O.U. degree and the CELTA!...!*_
> 
> _Too damn right!
> _


Thanks for the info giritana. I found it really interesting to read about your experience


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## Pesky Wesky

Places to study for the CELTA in Spain
University of Cambridge ESOL Examinations Spain: Centros Examinadores -mapa


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## Pesky Wesky

*Autónoma/ self employed*

Here's what I did the other day to sign up as a _*self employed English teacher*_ (an autónoma)._*Any other profession is likely to follow a different process*_

Go to the local tax offices (hacienda)
Ask for the forms to sign up as self employed (_*para darse de alta como autónomo/a*_). The form is "declaración censal simplificada de alta... modelo 037" But you shouldn't have to know that, they just give you the papers. 
Fill out forms. If you don't know what to do you just go through it with someone from the office, or you take it away and do it with a Spanish friend and take it back another day. On page 3 the epígrafe is 826 and the código de actividad is A05. Again, you shouldn't have to know that, they will do it for you if you're not sure.
Then you hand in these papers and they are stamped and you're given a copy to take away with you.
Now you have to get a photocopy of these papers and a copy of your ID (passport probably)
Take these papers to the employment (INEM) office. 
Ask for the papers _*para darse de alta como autónomo/a*_ once again. They give you TA. 0521. Again it's probably best to go through it with someone from the office. There's a lot that you don't have to fill in.
One thing you have to decide is how you're going to make the payments. If it's going to be by direct debit then you have to take your bank account number.
The numbers before me in the queue went so quickly this time I didn't have time to finish filling in the form. I wasn't watching the numbers screen either and the woman actually came out to look for me and did the photocopies that I hadn't done!! (first time ever !)
Good luck


----------



## jade anastasia

Hi everyone
I'm currently doing my AS levels and plan to go to uni to do a Spanish and TEFL course for four years. My aim is to work as a teacher in Majorca (preferably the west coast around Son Severa/ Cala Millor as I am already familiar with this area). However, I am unsure as to whether there are any international schools in this area, and if not, then how financially beneficial it will be teaching in a state school. I'm aware that to work in an International school i need a proper teaching qualification, would a PGCE be enough? I would also appreciate some advice about if I am better to teach Spanish to English expat children, or English to Spanish children. I would be grateful for any additional advice people may have too 
Thankyou, Jade


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## Guest

jade anastasia said:


> Hi everyone
> I'm currently doing my AS levels and plan to go to uni to do a Spanish and TEFL course for four years. My aim is to work as a teacher in Majorca (preferably the west coast around Son Severa/ Cala Millor as I am already familiar with this area). However, I am unsure as to whether there are any international schools in this area, and if not, then how financially beneficial it will be teaching in a state school. I'm aware that to work in an International school i need a proper teaching qualification, would a PGCE be enough? I would also appreciate some advice about if I am better to teach Spanish to English expat children, or English to Spanish children. I would be grateful for any additional advice people may have too
> Thankyou, Jade


From what I've seen on my OH's pay stubs, you'd earn more and work less in a state school. However, you would need a proper teaching degree (_magesterio_ to work in primary, or a batchelor's degree PLUS a _master en formación del profesorado_ to work in secondary.) Take into account that if you work in the state system, they can send you wherever in the_ comunidad autonoma_ that they've got a spot. That, and you've only got a permanent spot if you do really well on the tests and have enough points to put you at the top of the list. 

I'm not sure if Catalan is an issue there., like Gallego, Euskera, Valenciano, or Catalan in their respective regions.


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## janettonge

*More information if possible*

Hi,

Just read your post, I've just moved to Spain and have started studying Spanish and have looked into the TEFL. I see the best one to do is the CELTA or equivalent - but can't find anywhere in Malaga to study. I can move to Seville or Barcelona -but was keen to stay here and get a job. Any ideas?

Jan





Pesky Wesky said:


> I'm going to post some of my ideas on teaching English on Spain and hopefully the other forum members who are teachers will chip in.
> First post
> 
> Do you need qualifications?
> If you’re not qualified you’ll probably get something somewhere, but it would probably be on an informal basis and very badly paid – not enough to make a living on. It would be in your interest to get the correct qualifaction so that you can get a job in a "good" school, get good experience and can opt for promotion when the time comes. Most academies and schools wouldn’t dream of taking on unqualified staff. Those who do are bound to be a bit dodgy and would steer clear of them.
> I would also say that as a matter of professionalism you should know something about what you’re doing and being a native speaker doesn’t mean you know enough about your language to teach it. For example if somebody is dividing up what to take to a party you can say "Put me down for the beer and crisps" So how do you explain "We had to have our cat put down"??


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## Pesky Wesky

jade anastasia said:


> Hi everyone
> I'm currently doing my AS levels and plan to go to uni to do a Spanish and TEFL course for four years. My aim is to work as a teacher in Majorca (preferably the west coast around Son Severa/ Cala Millor as I am already familiar with this area). However, I am unsure as to whether there are any international schools in this area, and if not, then how financially beneficial it will be teaching in a state school. I'm aware that to work in an International school i need a proper teaching qualification, would a PGCE be enough? I would also appreciate some advice about if I am better to teach Spanish to English expat children, or English to Spanish children. I would be grateful for any additional advice people may have too
> Thankyou, Jade


Hi Jade,
With the situation as it is you won't be able to teach in a state school. You need to do the state exam which is a highly competitive shindig with hundreds possibly thousands trying to get a one of the permanent places given. And of course, you'll be competing against native Spanish speakers. It's not impossible, but requires preparation, planning and it may not be what you really want to do. This has been discussed before and here's a link to one of those threads.
http://www.expatforum.com/expats/sp...iving-spain/46608-english-teaching-again.html
So you could work in a British school, an international school, an academy or freelance. Here's a link to British schools. A PGCE is a teaching qualification and accepted everywhere as such.
National Association of British Schools in Spain - Nabss
For other schools just google international school Majorca.
With academy work you're never going to make a fortune, but I personally regard it as essential groundwork. You'll probably have a mix of adults and kids and if you're in a good school you'll be able to work with different resources This'll give you an opportunity to find out what kind of classes you like best and how you like working. Then after a couple of years you could go on to freelancing and company classes where you can make more money.
You'll probably be more in demand for teaching adults English than anything else, but if you want to teach children then I would have thought teaching English to Spanish children would be a bigger market than Spanish to English speakers.


----------



## Pesky Wesky

janettonge said:


> Hi,
> 
> Just read your post, I've just moved to Spain and have started studying Spanish and have looked into the TEFL. I see the best one to do is the CELTA or equivalent - but can't find anywhere in Malaga to study. I can move to Seville or Barcelona -but was keen to stay here and get a job. Any ideas?
> 
> Jan


Hi Jan!
Look at post 346.
Post again if you need to ask anything else


----------



## jade anastasia

Thankyou both for your advice. You said that they can send me wherever in _comunidad autonoma _. Does this mean anywhere in Spain?


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## xabiaxica

jade anastasia said:


> Thankyou both for your advice. You said that they can send me wherever in _comunidad autonoma _. Does this mean anywhere in Spain?


no - although it might feel that way!!!


here's a map showing the _comunidades autonomas_


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## baldilocks

jade anastasia said:


> Thankyou both for your advice. You said that they can send me wherever in _comunidad autonoma _. Does this mean anywhere in Spain?


If it is anything like the medical profession, the answer is "yes". Our doctor has just been posted elsewhere which is a great pity - she was good and was very well liked by everyone.


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## Pesky Wesky

baldilocks said:


> If it is anything like the medical profession, the answer is "yes". Our doctor has just been posted elsewhere which is a great pity - she was good and was very well liked by everyone.


No, thank goodness!
It's like Xabiachica says, you apply within a _comunidad_


----------



## Guest

xabiachica said:


> no - although it might feel that way!!!
> 
> 
> here's a map showing the _comunidades autonomas_


Please note that the _comunidades autonomas_ are marked by *color*, not name.


----------



## xabiaxica

halydia said:


> Please note that the _comunidades autonomas_ are marked by *color*, not name.


yes, and aren't some of them HUGE!!!


----------



## Guest

xabiachica said:


> yes, and aren't some of them HUGE!!!


We work in one of the little ones. The OH just got "booted" from his substitution today (or, in other words, the gentleman he was subbing for came back ). Thankfully, worst case scenario means a two hour trek in the woods and an excuse to get an apartment closer to where we work while waiting for our "real" apartment to get finished...


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## mogzilla

I have a friend who is seriously considering teaching English abroad. What is the best, most recognised course (world wide) value for money etc. There's a lot of talk here about CELTA - I'd never heard of that, only heard of TEFL... any advice? Money is an issue for him.


----------



## xabiaxica

mogzilla said:


> I have a friend who is seriously considering teaching English abroad. What is the best, most recognised course (world wide) value for money etc. There's a lot of talk here about CELTA - I'd never heard of that, only heard of TEFL... any advice? Money is an issue for him.


CELTA is the most professional - it takes the longest & is the most intense - and therefore usually the most expensive too - & generally considered to be the best


TEFL is accepted in many/most places - but general opinion is that it doesn't prepare you so well for actually teaching!!

although of course there are many different TEFL courses some are better than others


----------



## mogzilla

xabiachica said:


> CELTA is the most professional - it takes the longest & is the most intense - and therefore usually the most expensive too - & generally considered to be the best
> 
> 
> TEFL is accepted in many/most places - but general opinion is that it doesn't prepare you so well for actually teaching!!
> 
> although of course there are many different TEFL courses some are better than others


Many thanks!


----------



## Pesky Wesky

mogzilla said:


> I have a friend who is seriously considering teaching English abroad. What is the best, most recognised course (world wide) value for money etc. There's a lot of talk here about CELTA - I'd never heard of that, only heard of TEFL... any advice? Money is an issue for him.


Well, I'm confused 

TEFL = Teaching English as a Foreign Language. It isn't a qualification as such. It could be a TEFL _certificate_ or _course_, or a TEFL _job_.
CELTA = Certificate of English Language Teaching to Adults is an officially recognised TEFL qualification
If an academy offers _a TEFL _I imagine it's offering a course about TEFL that isn't officially recognized.
There is also a CELTYA = Certificate of English Language Teaching to Young Learners. This will change in 2011 to CELTA with an extension for those wanting to teach Young Learners.


----------



## xabiaxica

Pesky Wesky said:


> Well, I'm confused
> 
> TEFL = Teaching English as a Foreign Language. It isn't a qualification as such. It could be a TEFL _certificate_ or _course_, or a TEFL _job_.
> CELTA = Certificate of English Language Teaching to Adults is an officially recognised TEFL qualification
> If an academy offers _a TEFL _I imagine it's offering a course about TEFL that isn't officially recognized.
> There is also a CELTYA = Certificate of English Language Teaching to Young Learners. This will change in 2011 to CELTA with an extension for those wanting to teach Young Learners.


which is sort of where I was coming from


the TEFL is a 'generic' name for all sorts of courses - & therefore doesn't really mean much


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## Caz.I

mogzilla said:


> I have a friend who is seriously considering teaching English abroad. What is the best, most recognised course (world wide) value for money etc. There's a lot of talk here about CELTA - I'd never heard of that, only heard of TEFL... any advice? Money is an issue for him.


Just to add my bit - There is also the Trinity College TESOL certificate but I do think the CELTA is more widely accepted. The CELTA neednt be that expensive - I did mine at a further education college and it was quite reasonable. With the further education colleges you can often do the CELTA one day a week over 6 months or one evening per week over a year, so you can also work while you are doing it. Though you have to consider that you will be spending a lot of time outside of class time, observing classes and of course doing the assignments.


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## baldilocks

It all comes down to the fact that you really need to know the language very well before you try to teach it. Far too many people set themselves up to give private language tuition (if I can speak it then I can teach it - right? NO, wrong!) when they have such a poor grounding, themselves. The number of pupils we get who have been poorly taught is quite amazing and it then means that they have to unlearn before they can start to learn properly.

The fact is in many (in not most) UK schools, English Grammar is poorly taught. I had never heard of subjunctive, indicative, present-perfect, etc until I came up against my mother-in-law who is a teacher of both English and Spanish and really knows her stuff.


----------



## jojo

baldilocks said:


> It all comes down to the fact that you really need to know the language very well before you try to teach it. Far too many people set themselves up to give private language tuition (if I can speak it then I can teach it - right? NO, wrong!) when they have such a poor grounding, themselves. The number of pupils we get who have been poorly taught is quite amazing and it then means that they have to unlearn before they can start to learn properly.
> 
> The fact is in many (in not most) UK schools, English Grammar is poorly taught. I had never heard of subjunctive, indicative, present-perfect, etc until I came up against my mother-in-law who is a teacher of both English and Spanish and really knows her stuff.



I so agree with that Baldi!!! Thats why I tend to not get involved in the TEFL and teaching English questions. I like to think if you're paying someone, then you're getting, not only quality teaching, but someone who really does know their subject and how to teach it effectively. Obviously, informal "conversational" stuff isnt quite the same, but then isnt a lesson with a "teacher" 

I hope I dont get lynched for saying that!!?? 

Jo xxx


----------



## xabiaxica

jojo said:


> I so agree with that Baldi!!! Thats why I tend to not get involved in the TEFL and teaching English questions. I like to think if you're paying someone, then you're getting, not only quality teaching, but someone who really does know their subject and how to teach it effectively. Obviously, informal "conversational" stuff isnt quite the same, but then isnt a lesson with a "teacher"
> 
> I hope I dont get lynched for saying that!!??
> 
> Jo xxx


no, you're right



& so is Baldilocks


knowing how to do something doesn't mean you can teach it

& tbh you don't have to know EVERYTHING about a subject to be able to teach it



just a whole lot more than your students!!



and a talent for imparting information without sending the students to sleep!!


----------



## baldilocks

jojo said:


> I hope I dont get lynched for saying that!!??
> 
> Jo xxx


I do think it is important to be taught properly by someone who knows what she or he is doing. The "teacher" I had in UK had not got a clue. At the end of a year 80% the class were still pronouncing "de" as if it were French (having never been corrected) and, maybe, half might have been able to order a beer in a bar on the costa from a barman who could speak English.

I have similar views on people who offer translating and interpreting services when they are not qualified to do so. We had a builder come to us recently with a reply from an Ayuntamiento regarding a permiso de obras which he had been told by a "translator" was giving him permission to go ahead. It wasn't. The letter was asking him for more information and specifically denying him permission until the requirements were met.


----------



## mogzilla

¡Muchas gracias a todos por sus detalladas respuestas! 

Thanks for all the info here, very detailed. I shall pass all the info onto my buddy (who is a writer by trade so already a wordsmith). Many thanks once again.


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## SuziC

Hi I have just joined the forum because of the topic teaching English. I live in Spain and have just completed a TEFL course (I know not as good as CELTA)!! The thing is I am a mother of four children and so my time is very limited!! I am a graduate and have taught children but not however in the English Language. I therefore wanted some kind of formal qualification which on top of a degree and experience (the only time where my age is a benefit) I think that I am ready to teach and want to start private lessons so that I can fit it around my busy schedule. I am just going to stick some posters around and hope for the best if anyone has any tips on how to advertise for private lessons would be apreciated.


----------



## Caz.I

SuziC said:


> Hi I have just joined the forum because of the topic teaching English. I live in Spain and have just completed a TEFL course (I know not as good as CELTA)!! The thing is I am a mother of four children and so my time is very limited!! I am a graduate and have taught children but not however in the English Language. I therefore wanted some kind of formal qualification which on top of a degree and experience (the only time where my age is a benefit) I think that I am ready to teach and want to start private lessons so that I can fit it around my busy schedule. I am just going to stick some posters around and hope for the best if anyone has any tips on how to advertise for private lessons would be apreciated.


Hi, and well done on completing the TEFL course. Personally, I think word of mouth is the best way to advertise. If your children are in Spanish school and/or have Spanish friends, then mention it to the mothers. They are likely to know someone who wants lessons, or they or their children might. I have put ads round some of the internet cafes and have had students this way (and had enquiries from people who worked in the internet cafe) but nearly all of the students I have now, have come through word of mouth.


----------



## Pesky Wesky

SuziC said:


> Hi I have just joined the forum because of the topic teaching English. I live in Spain and have just completed a TEFL course (I know not as good as CELTA)!! The thing is I am a mother of four children and so my time is very limited!! I am a graduate and have taught children but not however in the English Language. I therefore wanted some kind of formal qualification which on top of a degree and experience (the only time where my age is a benefit) I think that I am ready to teach and want to start private lessons so that I can fit it around my busy schedule. I am just going to stick some posters around and hope for the best if anyone has any tips on how to advertise for private lessons would be apreciated.


Hi SuziC
With four kids they should give you a certificate for just poking your head round the door every day! I hope the course gave you some good grounding to start on.
I agree with CazI that your best classes are going to come from word of mouth so your children could be your best advert! However, to work around your schedule maybe you're thinking of teaching adults during the day?? 'Cos of course children are only going to be available in the evening after school. If so, try any Irish pubs in your area, or parents at school. Here, some book shops have notice boards which you can use to advertise on. Local paper?¿?
Older children will be available from about 3:30 onwards as state secondary schools finish at 2:30 ish without lunch.

Enjoy the forum


----------



## Caz.I

Pesky Wesky said:


> Hi SuziC
> With four kids they should give you a certificate for just poking your head round the door every day! I hope the course gave you some good grounding to start on.
> I agree with CazI that your best classes are going to come from word of mouth so your children could be your best advert! However, to work around your schedule maybe you're thinking of teaching adults during the day?? 'Cos of course children are only going to be available in the evening after school. If so, try any Irish pubs in your area, or parents at school. Here, some book shops have notice boards which you can use to advertise on. Local paper?¿?
> Older children will be available from about 3:30 onwards as state secondary schools finish at 2:30 ish without lunch.
> 
> Enjoy the forum


Good point, Pesky. Yes, this is the problem I have with teaching children - that they want classes in the afternoons when my son is home from school. But I also find adults more unreliable as they are usually juggling so many commitments that they find it difficult to continue or constantly cancel. At the moment I only have one adult student - she is a neighbour! So getting to know your neighbours is another idea!


----------



## nigele2

SuziC said:


> Hi I have just joined the forum because of the topic teaching English. I live in Spain and have just completed a TEFL course (I know not as good as CELTA)!! The thing is I am a mother of four children and so my time is very limited!! I am a graduate and have taught children but not however in the English Language. I therefore wanted some kind of formal qualification which on top of a degree and experience (the only time where my age is a benefit) I think that I am ready to teach and want to start private lessons so that I can fit it around my busy schedule. I am just going to stick some posters around and hope for the best if anyone has any tips on how to advertise for private lessons would be apreciated.


Suzi I just must ask, sorry: Sri Lanka??? Is that a missed click 

:focus:

You may have already done these but just in case:

I don't know how much competition you have in your area and clearly understanding the marketplace is important. I'd start by trying to find English lessons. Find out where the opposition advertises. Gather information on pricing. When you know what you are up against you will hopefully see how to differentiate yourself.

Can you cater for qualification learning, vertical industry learning, and/or casual want to improve learning? Do you visit or offer within your own home? Do you offer a series of lessons for a discounted rate? Do you offer group lessons?

I guess be aware of not trying to be all things to all men. 

Beyond that as the others have said get your cards printed and out there. 

Not sure how you can promote your Irish accent but when my stepdaughter went to classes in Dublin she was fascinated by it and found it easy to understand 

Well good luck


----------



## SuziC

nigele2 said:


> Suzi I just must ask, sorry: Sri Lanka??? Is that a missed click
> 
> :focus:
> 
> You may have already done these but just in case:
> 
> I don't know how much competition you have in your area and clearly understanding the marketplace is important. I'd start by trying to find English lessons. Find out where the opposition advertises. Gather information on pricing. When you know what you are up against you will hopefully see how to differentiate yourself.
> 
> Can you cater for qualification learning, vertical industry learning, and/or casual want to improve learning? Do you visit or offer within your own home? Do you offer a series of lessons for a discounted rate? Do you offer group lessons?
> 
> I guess be aware of not trying to be all things to all men.
> 
> Beyond that as the others have said get your cards printed and out there.
> 
> Not sure how you can promote your Irish accent but when my stepdaughter went to classes in Dublin she was fascinated by it and found it easy to understand
> 
> Well good luck


Supposed to be Spain! didnt notice - will amend! Thanks for advise starting to put notices around and am going to offer both discounts for more than one person and also a discount if they pay for couple of weeks in advance 
So fingers crossed!
Also my Irish accent very clear (to me anyway)!!
Thanks for all the replies - not sure if I am posting this reply in the right place!!


----------



## Sandy Tall

Talking to friends who run language academies in Spain, I found there wasn’t much difference as far as they were concerned. A TEFL qualification is seen as a means of sorting the wheat from the chaff and whether that’s CELTA or TESOL doesn’t make much difference....lane:


----------



## pog239

*college grad dreaming of spain*

Hi everybody!

As an undergrad, I studied abroad in Madrid for about 6 months and fell in love with the culture, language, and people. Now, a recent college graduate from a respected university, I can't get over my desire to return and spend a year or more living there. 

From what I have gathered, teaching English may be the best option for someone in my position. While I am certainly not fluent in Spanish, I am confident that I could pick up the language again pretty quickly given my experience in Spanish-speaking countries and desire to be bilingual and adapt to the culture. 

I have been researching teaching opportunities in Spain, but it's hard to wade through all the different programs I find online. I am not concerned about making a lot of money - only enough to take care of myself (decent living conditions, food, etc.) - but I can't afford to spend thousands and thousands of dollars doing volunteer work or paying tuition fees overseas. I also know there are difficulties in gaining working permits/visas in the EU for Americans. 

What do you suggest I do? Is the dream of teaching English for an extended period of time in a Spanish city, without spending a ton of $$$, realistic for me? Thanks!


----------



## Guest

pog239 said:


> Hi everybody!
> 
> As an undergrad, I studied abroad in Madrid for about 6 months and fell in love with the culture, language, and people. Now, a recent college graduate from a respected university, I can't get over my desire to return and spend a year or more living there.
> 
> From what I have gathered, teaching English may be the best option for someone in my position. While I am certainly not fluent in Spanish, I am confident that I could pick up the language again pretty quickly given my experience in Spanish-speaking countries and desire to be bilingual and adapt to the culture.
> 
> I have been researching teaching opportunities in Spain, but it's hard to wade through all the different programs I find online. I am not concerned about making a lot of money - only enough to take care of myself (decent living conditions, food, etc.) - but I can't afford to spend thousands and thousands of dollars doing volunteer work or paying tuition fees overseas. I also know there are difficulties in gaining working permits/visas in the EU for Americans.
> 
> What do you suggest I do? Is the dream of teaching English for an extended period of time in a Spanish city, without spending a ton of $$$, realistic for me? Thanks!


Look into the North American Language and Culture Assistants program.
It is the only EASY way you will find to do this with a visa and permission to be in Spain. I'd say that 95% of the time employers will not hire an American, due to the fact it's exponentially easier to hire an EU native English speaker. The only problem is that if you've got your heart set on a specific city, it's fairly likely you won't get it unless you're one of the very first to apply (or it's an unusual city choice).


----------



## SuziC

Sandy Tall said:


> Talking to friends who run language academies in Spain, I found there wasn’t much difference as far as they were concerned. A TEFL qualification is seen as a means of sorting the wheat from the chaff and whether that’s CELTA or TESOL doesn’t make much difference....lane:


hi thats good to hear I have'nt approached any academies yet thought it would be more flexible to do private teaching- have no pupils yet though! so may look into that just keen to get started!


----------



## christykelly

Dina_M said:


> Hola!
> 
> I just became an English teacher in June and I have had plenty of work come my way, so, don't worry about that aspect of it. People are very excited to hear that you teach English because a lot of people want teachers for themselves (for their jobs) or for their children.
> 
> I would reccomend getting a certification, but it doesn't have to be CELTA or DELTA, a simple TEFL certificate will do (It's what I have). Also, depending on where you're from, you may have limits on how many hours you can work. For instance, I can only legally work 20 hours a week, because I have a student visa.
> 
> Teaching is a very rewarding and fun job and the school that I went to has helped me immensely in finding jobs. They guaranteed jobs, and they delivered. If you are interested in finding out more about them or just have anymore questions, please feel free to email me or respond here.
> 
> Best of luck!
> Dina


i would be very interested to find out anymore information


----------



## Pesky Wesky

This TEFL jobs fair is happening again

www.spainwise.net |

I looked at infojobs and Madridteacher.com - there were practically NO job offers...


----------



## xabiaxica

Pesky Wesky said:


> This TEFL jobs fair is happening again
> 
> www.spainwise.net |
> 
> I looked at infojobs and Madridteacher.com - there were practically NO job offers...


I was contacted & offered a partnership in a local language school the other day

she wanted someone to take over all the english teaching & pay half the rent 


she said I could bring all my private students there - I had to ask myself - & her - why I'd want to pay rent on premises when I don't now - and in all honesty am almost teaching more hours a week than I can handle

she all but begged - until I said 'you do know I teach Spanish too, don't you?'

she said I'd have to give that up & pass them on to her



yeah right.............. I'm going to do that, aren't I?


----------



## SuziC

Hi all havent been on forum for ages life catching up with me!! Also havent found any students!! Finished the TEFL course in Oct and after put notices up in local area and in the town outside schools in libraries etc.... few days later though most of posters were gone even in the libraries and town hall culture centre etc. so got disheartened! Only really want a few students a week cos have the kids after school and things pretty hectic with them! Any more advice!


----------



## xabiaxica

SuziC said:


> Hi all havent been on forum for ages life catching up with me!! Also havent found any students!! Finished the TEFL course in Oct and after put notices up in local area and in the town outside schools in libraries etc.... few days later though most of posters were gone even in the libraries and town hall culture centre etc. so got disheartened! Only really want a few students a week cos have the kids after school and things pretty hectic with them! Any more advice!


the only advertising I ever did that worked - & in fact the only advertising I ever did - was to stand outside the local schools handing out leaflets about 4 years ago

I printed about 100 leaflets at home & just passed them out

I'm sure it helped that I could talk to the parents in Spanish

from that I got about half a dozen students & have never needed to advertise since


----------



## baldilocks

SuziC said:


> Hi all havent been on forum for ages life catching up with me!! Also havent found any students!! Finished the TEFL course in Oct and after put notices up in local area and in the town outside schools in libraries etc.... few days later though most of posters were gone even in the libraries and town hall culture centre etc. so got disheartened! Only really want a few students a week cos have the kids after school and things pretty hectic with them! Any more advice!


My wife works for the Academy in the next town which has a couple of classrooms here in the village and she has 42 pupils in four groups each of different ages/abilities all for English. Each group has three 1 hour classes per week. We also have around half a dozen youngsters here at the house for special/remedial tuition in English and two for French. My mother-in-law has seven adult pupils here at the house and another eight at an Anglo/Spanish centre in the next town all for Spanish.

No shortage of pupils here


----------



## Guest

baldilocks said:


> My wife works for the Academy in the next town which has a couple of classrooms here in the village and she has 42 pupils in four groups each of different ages/abilities all for English. Each group has three 1 hour classes per week. We also have around half a dozen youngsters here at the house for special/remedial tuition in English and two for French. My mother-in-law has seven adult pupils here at the house and another eight at an Anglo/Spanish centre in the next town all for Spanish.
> 
> No shortage of pupils here


Nor is there a shortage up north. 

Word of mouth can do amazing things here. Keep trying!


----------



## xabiaxica

halydia said:


> Nor is there a shortage up north.
> 
> Word of mouth can do amazing things here. Keep trying!


yes, word of mouth is the best form of advertising there is



and it can be the worst - if you see what I mean................


----------



## Pesky Wesky

xabiachica said:


> yes, word of mouth is the best form of advertising there is
> 
> 
> 
> and it can be the worst - if you see what I mean................


But to start it off you need to get a class!!!

Shame about the posters. I mean the posters put up by SuzieC, not the people posters, if you see what I mean!!
I would think, as said before, the parents at school may be your best point of contact. Instead of asking if they are interested in classes, which may be a bit awkward, ask if they know of anybody that wants them. Get business cards or smallish leaflets printed out with your contact details on. Bus stops are used a lot for advertising here... What about in bookshops/ newsagent's type of shops.


----------



## baldilocks

Pesky Wesky said:


> But to start it off you need to get a class!!!
> 
> Shame about the posters. I mean the posters put up by SuzieC, not the people posters, if you see what I mean!!
> I would think, as said before, the parents at school may be your best point of contact. Instead of asking if they are interested in classes, which may be a bit awkward, ask if they know of anybody that wants them. Get business cards or smallish leaflets printed out with your contact details on. Bus stops are used a lot for advertising here... What about in bookshops/ newsagent's type of shops.


if you are doing business cards do them on your own computer and make them double sided in English one side and Spanish on the other. Easy enough when you consider that the card template has two columns - use one for Spanish and the other for English, then when you turn the card over to print the other side they work out with one language on each side.


----------



## Caz.I

Yes I agree with that, plus putting flyers in internet cafes, or just normal cafes, are a good place too. It can take a long time to build up regular classes but once you do get started, as everyone says, word of mouth is often the best way. I dont know if you speak Spanish but if so, try dropping the fact that you are an English teacher into the conversation wherever you are? I have had enquiries from lawyers, bank managers, parents, neighbours etc this way. You could also put some flyers round your apartment block/estate. When people know you are in the same street/estate it motivates them that little bit more.


----------



## Caz.I

xabiachica said:


> I was contacted & offered a partnership in a local language school the other day
> 
> she wanted someone to take over all the english teaching & pay half the rent
> 
> 
> she said I could bring all my private students there - I had to ask myself - & her - why I'd want to pay rent on premises when I don't now - and in all honesty am almost teaching more hours a week than I can handle
> 
> she all but begged - until I said 'you do know I teach Spanish too, don't you?'
> 
> she said I'd have to give that up & pass them on to her
> 
> 
> 
> yeah right.............. I'm going to do that, aren't I?


Yes, I have had similar offers before like this, they basically want your students or rather the income from them!


----------



## Guest

xabiachica said:


> yes, word of mouth is the best form of advertising there is
> 
> 
> 
> and it can be the worst - if you see what I mean................


Very true, so one must do the best work possible!  

Another spot to put flyers would be in or near the local EOI.


----------



## andmac

Hi I am new here (the forum and Spain). 

I am just beginning to teach English - I was a teacher in the UK and have TEFL as well as University level French, Spanish and Linguistics.

With reference to the advertising, our landlady has come up with a class of six immediately for me which begins next week! It's a mixed ability class but most of the six work in fairly large organisations in the next town along the bay to us. I am really hoping for word of mouth.

I did set up a free website using a free site creation website (don't know if I can link) and have left business cards in the local businesses we frequent - petrol station, tobacconist, garden centre etc. I am getting a good number of hits a day and slowly building up more work.

Poco a poco seems to be the mantra around here, so bit by bit it is. It may take a while to get a liveable income but it will be fun and worthwhile!

Oh, there are a few free classified ads sites out there - I am trying them too! Once things pick up a little or to give business a gentle shove, I might take a small billboard on the way into town to promote myself as no one else in this area is teaching English!


----------



## Pesky Wesky

andmac said:


> Hi I am new here (the forum and Spain).
> 
> I am just beginning to teach English - I was a teacher in the UK and have TEFL as well as University level French, Spanish and Linguistics.
> 
> With reference to the advertising, our landlady has come up with a class of six immediately for me which begins next week! It's a mixed ability class but most of the six work in fairly large organisations in the next town along the bay to us. I am really hoping for word of mouth.
> 
> I did set up a free website using a free site creation website (don't know if I can link) and have left business cards in the local businesses we frequent - petrol station, tobacconist, garden centre etc. I am getting a good number of hits a day and slowly building up more work.
> 
> Poco a poco seems to be the mantra around here, so bit by bit it is. It may take a while to get a liveable income but it will be fun and worthwhile!
> 
> Oh, there are a few free classified ads sites out there - I am trying them too! Once things pick up a little or to give business a gentle shove, I might take a small billboard on the way into town to promote myself as no one else in this area is teaching English!


IMO it's much better if things build up bit by bit. Too much at the same time can lead to bad decisions and unworkable timetables. I can't imagine that you'd need to get the bill board - there's only so much one teacher can teach after all !!
My advice would be to get in touch with "the fairly large organisations" that your students are in, or others, assuming that you have transport. You can charge better rates normally to businesses of that kind. However you would need to be self employed to do that as they will want them to bill you.

Giving info out in the petrol station etc whilst doing no harm is not likely to bring in anything more than low paying childrens classes (the children of the employees), but may be better than nothing!


----------



## andmac

Pesky Wesky said:


> IMO it's much better if things build up bit by bit. Too much at the same time can lead to bad decisions and unworkable timetables. I can't imagine that you'd need to get the bill board - there's only so much one teacher can teach after all !!
> My advice would be to get in touch with "the fairly large organisations" that your students are in, or others, assuming that you have transport. You can charge better rates normally to businesses of that kind. However you would need to be self employed to do that as they will want them to bill you.
> 
> Giving info out in the petrol station etc whilst doing no harm is not likely to bring in anything more than low paying childrens classes (the children of the employees), but may be better than nothing!


Thanks Pesky Wesky,

I think the "large organisations" will be a good avenue as I am qualified to deliver business English. Also, despite my history as a teacher, I came to this in later life (early 30's) after a good career in the private sector as a Training Manager for a blue chip company. So business experience is mine too!


----------



## Pesky Wesky

andmac said:


> Thanks Pesky Wesky,
> 
> I think the "large organisations" will be a good avenue as I am qualified to deliver business English. Also, despite my history as a teacher, I came to this in later life (early 30's) after a good career in the private sector as a Training Manager for a blue chip company. So business experience is mine too!


An ideal candidate!!

I teach in companies too, currently 4. I'm in and out all day and couldn't do it without a car, but I much prefer working in this sector than with kids or university students. 
When I started I went directly to the companies with a letter of introduction. From that came two companies, 4 groups. 1 company lasted 3 years and the other I still work in (about 10 years later!) and now have 4 groups.
Later I dropped off info about classes in a folder instead of using a flyer. I dropped off at 10 companies at a time so I didn't get too many interviews/ offers at the same time. It was more expensive, but only about 15- 20 euros and you make it up in one class so it's well worth it.
I also have a permanent ad on a web page for teachers in Madrid that I've got a lot of work from, mainly telephone classes and translations.
However, this year I wanted to drop one of the companies I go to and go to another as I wasn't very happy with what was happening. I haven't been able to as, although I've advertised nothing's come up. It's the first year since I started autonoma (about 12 years) that I haven't had a constant stream of calls or mails, so I'd say that the Madrid area is not so good for someone starting out at the moment.


----------



## baldilocks

Pesky Wesky said:


> so I'd say that the Madrid area is not so good for someone starting out at the moment.


It's harder still if you are in a rural area!


----------



## Pesky Wesky

baldilocks said:


> It's harder still if you are in a rural area!


THat's not what you said in your previous post!!

It's not only the geographical area, it's the type of class your looking for. I would imagine looking for a company to teach in might be more difficult than looking for childrens' classes in a rural area. If there's a couple of schols around you've got your market with kids.
Actually today I was contacted by a teacher in a bilingual school here in Madrid who wants some one to translate a unit of her text book. It's in English and she's got to teach it and poor thing is obviously finding it a bit too much.
Something to think about when choosing state bilingual education...


----------



## Guest

Pesky Wesky said:


> THat's not what you said in your previous post!!
> 
> It's not only the geographical area, it's the type of class your looking for. I would imagine looking for a company to teach in might be more difficult than looking for childrens' classes in a rural area. If there's a couple of schols around you've got your market with kids.
> Actually today I was contacted by a teacher in a bilingual school here in Madrid who wants some one to translate a unit of her text book. It's in English and she's got to teach it and poor thing is obviously finding it a bit too much.
> Something to think about when choosing state bilingual education...


heh... I'm not going to say anything more than "no comment" re: the state.

Up here, students are very easy to find. However, you've got to be willing to work with kids and adults. I've found that many teachers are interested in private classes, especially with the push for bilingual ed. in many comunidades autonomas. To teach a bilingual class, you must have a B2 or higher. Logically, there's more work possibilities if you can teach bilingual classes. Also, I've had good luck with hospitals, in that I've found doctors and hospital employees who are interested.


----------



## Pesky Wesky

For teachers in and around Barcelona an ELT conference at IH this coming weekend. Phone as soon as possible 'cos these things get full really quickly.
ELT Conference Barcelona 2011, 4-5 February


----------



## LeighSanders

Hi,

I'm up north on the gorgeous Costa Brava coast, Catalonia. I live very near toCadaquès (Dali's hometown) I adore it here- been here for almost 10 years now and it's home now. (I guess this is also partly due to my husband being from here) I was wondering if there are any other English teachers in this area......


----------



## Pesky Wesky

*Tefl /delta/ celta*

What to study and where if you want to work as an English teacher has come up quite a few times on the Forum. This is from madridteacher.com, and as it agrees with my point of view, I thought I'd give you the link !

CELTA / DELTA Madrid

To give you a taster this is how it starts...

The fact is that these three academies are the best local options if you want a certification which will be accepted locally and recognized around the world. There are slightly cheaper uncertified alternatives in Madrid, but you might have a much harder time getting them accepted by your prospective employers. Personally, I'd have a harder time taking your TEFL "certificate" seriously (and you, frankly) if it wasn't from either Cambridge or Trinity.

Some people have said that if you're not considering making teaching your career, your thing to do in life, then perhaps you could do one of the cheaper, not officially recognised titles... Up to you really, isn't it?


----------



## sp1j

A CELTA/TEFL certificate isn't the be all and end all. In Spain the language schools are more interested in your experience than your qualification. I recommend doing some volunteer lessons in your local community before you go, or teaching a few lessons online. Any experience helps you find work.


----------



## adamh1

*HI everyone*

Hi there,

my name is Adam, Im 25 and i currently reside in Holland (Im a UK native).

Ive read this thread (very informative i must say) and when i looked at the earlier posts, from 2009/10 i saw that it was harder to find work teaching English due to the economic situation. 

My particular situation is a 4 year Bachelors in International Management, I intend to complete a CELTA course early next year and i currently work as an (junior) auditor/AP worker for a large multinational in Holland. I want to move to Spain on a long term basis, from what I've read, investing in a CELTA is the most viable option. My Spanish is very basic (i plan to take an intensive course as soon as I have the time when im in Spain). I have no teaching experience but i do possess communicative and social skills although understandbly, this is irrelevant to most employers at first glance. 

While unemployment is still at 45% in under 25s in Spain, my question is - has the situation picked up for teaching English in Spain?

I'm looking to teach in Madrid or Barcelona (wouldn't mind Sevilla or Valencia either though).

Apologies if i am asking this question for the 1000th time - i really studied this thread to try avoid that.

thanks in advance,
Adam


----------



## Pesky Wesky

adamh1 said:


> Hi there,
> 
> my name is Adam, Im 25 and i currently reside in Holland (Im a UK native).
> 
> Ive read this thread (very informative i must say) and when i looked at the earlier posts, from 2009/10 i saw that it was harder to find work teaching English due to the economic situation.
> 
> My particular situation is a 4 year Bachelors in International Management, I intend to complete a CELTA course early next year and i currently work as an (junior) auditor/AP worker for a large multinational in Holland. I want to move to Spain on a long term basis, from what I've read, investing in a CELTA is the most viable option. My Spanish is very basic (i plan to take an intensive course as soon as I have the time when im in Spain). I have no teaching experience but i do possess communicative and social skills although understandbly, this is irrelevant to most employers at first glance.
> 
> While unemployment is still at 45% in under 25s in Spain, my question is - has the situation picked up for teaching English in Spain?
> 
> I'm looking to teach in Madrid or Barcelona (wouldn't mind Sevilla or Valencia either though).
> 
> Apologies if i am asking this question for the 1000th time - i really studied this thread to try avoid that.
> 
> thanks in advance,
> Adam


My advice would be to look for a job before you come using these sites, and others recommended on this thread, or just by sending your cv (first by email and later by snail mail if you don't get a reply) to a list of schools that you've found through Google. If you look before you come then there won't be any doubt about whether you'll be employed or not!

One of the best sites for finding your first job in Spain
Vacancies in the database - TEFL.com

Vacancies in International House
International House Recruitment Teacher vacancies

Madrid teacher (Also has vacancies in other parts of Spain in another page)
Employment - Madrid

Internet job site.
Ofertas de trabajo, Buscar trabajo, Bolsa de trabajo - InfoJobs


----------



## Guest

Adam, 

Might I suggest that you look in an area that's not as "saturated" with native English speakers? You've got a lot of competition in those popular cities, between proper English teachers and study-abroad students looking to earn a few euros here and there. I could be incorrect, but I'd imagine competition is pretty tough there. 

I'd start learning Spanish as soon as possible. It helps a lot.


----------



## Pesky Wesky

halydia said:


> Adam,
> 
> Might I suggest that you look in an area that's not as "saturated" with native English speakers? You've got a lot of competition in those popular cities, between proper English teachers and study-abroad students looking to earn a few euros here and there. I could be incorrect, but I'd imagine competition is pretty tough there.


Good point halydia


----------



## Manin_bcn

*CELTA - English language teaching*

The CELTA course varies in duration. Usually, it's four weeks but in Cambridge School, Granollers (Barcelona) there is a five week CELTA. This fifth week is extremely useful as the course, itself, is quite intensive.

Price comparability: well, I managed to secure a place to take my CELTA in Valencia, Granollers, and Barcelona centre. Valencia and Barcelona offered the four week CELTA, slightly more in price than the Cambridge one in Granollers, plus the one extra week!

In terms of 'market saturation' of English teachers - well, not quite so... yes, there are many English teachers (not all native either) but many schools will choose native (British/Irish) over the others, from my experience. 

Following successful completion of my CELTA, I got a job in a private language school two weeks later! I'm still there and love it! I also now do private one to one, with a couple of people, and I work for an international pharmaceutical company, teaching their marketing team.

I would suggest that, anyone wishing to pursue English teaching, definitely do their CELTA/TEFL as MOST employers will ask for this; those who don't, are a little bit desperate, in my view, and are best left alone. It's about credibility at the end of the day.

You'll never be wealthy teaching English. The national average hourly rate is 15 euros although some places offer slightly more. Some offer less, but you can then negotiate on any commuting costs. It helps if you already have a first degree (Master better) because you are more marketable and people pay for that. They do in my case anyway.

Teaching is fun; you need to be prepared to brush up on your grammar - I feel the Brits acquire the language, rather than learn through in-depth grammar, but here, especially in Spain, grammar truly is the backbone of their language and they know their stuff. Don't let that put you off; I was rusty but once you get into it, it's no big deal! Also, prepare yourself for teaching a whole range - kids (I mean 3 years upwards) juniors, teens, adults, First Certificate, Advanced and even proficiency (my experience). You will either love, or hate, the kids bit; if you have a natural affinity towards them, then fine. Not my cup of tea however.

You'd be surprised how quickly you build up a network (if your good at that king of thing). Also, make a concerted effort to learn Spanish, from the outset! Whilst teaching English, is just that, remember, it is a second language, so many will continue to communicate in the L1 (first language) and that, here, in Catalunya, will either be Castillano or Catalan. However, set the class rules for English only but, never-say-never!

Good luck to all those who consider teaching English as a second/foreign language. Worthy choice!


----------



## Manin_bcn

Hi Adam

see my post reply relating to this.

You WILL find a job. There are no guarantees in life but this one is a sure bet!

Go for it matey!

Dave














adamh1 said:


> Hi there,
> 
> my name is Adam, Im 25 and i currently reside in Holland (Im a UK native).
> 
> Ive read this thread (very informative i must say) and when i looked at the earlier posts, from 2009/10 i saw that it was harder to find work teaching English due to the economic situation.
> 
> My particular situation is a 4 year Bachelors in International Management, I intend to complete a CELTA course early next year and i currently work as an (junior) auditor/AP worker for a large multinational in Holland. I want to move to Spain on a long term basis, from what I've read, investing in a CELTA is the most viable option. My Spanish is very basic (i plan to take an intensive course as soon as I have the time when im in Spain). I have no teaching experience but i do possess communicative and social skills although understandbly, this is irrelevant to most employers at first glance.
> 
> While unemployment is still at 45% in under 25s in Spain, my question is - has the situation picked up for teaching English in Spain?
> 
> I'm looking to teach in Madrid or Barcelona (wouldn't mind Sevilla or Valencia either though).
> 
> Apologies if i am asking this question for the 1000th time - i really studied this thread to try avoid that.
> 
> thanks in advance,
> Adam


----------



## Manin_bcn

*CELTA/TEFL English language teaching*

... please! Anyone considering the 'cheaper' alternatives for example, on-line CELTA/TEFL... forget it!

You need to have the taught hours part of the teacher training - employers will NOT consider you.

Cambridge is probably the most reputable (and internationally recognisable) so go for that.

CELTA teacher training courses can be expensive. Shop around - but there's a saying: "speculate, to accumulate" and, whilst the accumulation will most definitely not be wealth (but, equally, more than enough to live comfortably) you will get much more back in return!

Buena suerte!
Good luck!


----------



## Manin_bcn

... agree!

Yes, a first degree, Masters or other supporting qualifications plus Spanish, goes a long way to support you.


----------



## baldilocks

Manin_bcn said:


> I feel the Brits acquire the language, rather than learn through in-depth grammar



This is very true as my suegra will confirm. She is forever complaining that when she tries to teach Spanish to Brits they don't even know English grammar so what hope has she of teaching them Spanish grammar?


----------



## xabiaxica

baldilocks said:


> This is very true as my suegra will confirm. She is forever complaining that when she tries to teach Spanish to Brits they don't even know English grammar so what hope has she of teaching them Spanish grammar?


agreed

when I first started to teach Spanish to adults, I quickly realised that I would either have to teach them grammar from scratch or try another method

I plumped for trying another method - mostly by assimilation - but sneaking in the rules of grammar when they aren't looking, but without too many 'technical' terms


----------



## Pesky Wesky

xabiachica said:


> agreed
> 
> when I first started to teach Spanish to adults, I quickly realised that I would either have to teach them grammar from scratch or try another method
> 
> I plumped for trying another method - mostly by assimilation - but sneaking in the rules of grammar when they aren't looking, but without too many 'technical' terms


I happen to think that's normally the best way to learn anyway. After all you don't get anywhere knowing that this is the present perfect or that the adverb goes before the verb (except the verb to be, of course ) if you can't actually spit it out when you're trying to book a plane ticket or complain in a restaurant...


----------



## xabiaxica

Pesky Wesky said:


> I happen to think that's normally the best way to learn anyway. After all you don't get anywhere knowing that this is the present perfect or that the adverb goes before the verb (except the verb to be, of course ) if you can't actually spit it out when you're trying to book a plane ticket or complain in a restaurant...


OMG another teacher agrees with me:clap2:

sometimes I feel like a lone voice


----------



## Guest

xabiachica said:


> OMG another teacher agrees with me:clap2:
> 
> sometimes I feel like a lone voice


Agreed. Unfortunately, there's a great love of grammar here so I have to adapt. _Ajo y agua_ for me, as the Spanish might say


----------



## xabiaxica

halydia said:


> Agreed. Unfortunately, there's a great love of grammar here so I have to adapt. _Ajo y agua_ for me, as the Spanish might say


yes, the spanish do love their grammar....

I've just agreed to take on a couple of south american ladies (one from argentina & one from colombia) who want to learn english

guess I'd better brush up on all those nasty technicalities again -it's a while since I taught English!


----------



## baldilocks

In this house it is English, Spanish and French with an occasional Maths thrown in, but in the Academia, it is just English.


----------



## adamh1

*..*

thank you all for your words of advice and encouragement . 

I suppose my best bet is to find work beforehand and come over and find accomodation after a few days. Or come across with sufficient funds to keep me going until i find work and accomodation.

Judging from what I've read, the work will consist of a mix of hours split up across the day at language schools and private lessons. Should i expect the working hours to not resemble a 9-5 or is this circumstantial?

I also saw that there is little work during the summer (except summer camps). How long have you been teaching Manin_bcn? did you find it hard at the beginning?

sorry for all the question - i appreciate the help.

adam


----------



## xabiaxica

adamh1 said:


> thank you all for your words of advice and encouragement .
> 
> I suppose my best bet is to find work beforehand and come over and find accomodation after a few days. Or come across with sufficient funds to keep me going until i find work and accomodation.
> 
> Judging from what I've read, the work will consist of a mix of hours split up across the day at language schools and private lessons. Should i expect the working hours to not resemble a 9-5 or is this circumstantial?
> 
> I also saw that there is little work during the summer (except summer camps). How long have you been teaching Manin_bcn? did you find it hard at the beginning?
> 
> sorry for all the question - i appreciate the help.
> 
> adam


you're right - not much chance of a 9-5 timetable!!

PeskyWesky who started the thread works some VERY early mornings & LATE evenings - as I did when I worked in an academy - my last class of the evening started at 8.30pm & finished at 10 - my earliest started at 8am!!

obviously there were lots of breaks in between - and I fitted private classes in then

I was lucky in that I could do my private classes in a spare room at home - and it was only a 5 min bike ride to the academy - I know Pesky has a lot more travelling than that


----------



## Manin_bcn

Hi Adam,

there wouldn't be any point in trying to find work, as an English teacher at least, until you have actually completed the CELTA course. Accommodation is easily found (and in abundance). You are correct about teaching during the summer months, particularly August, where all schools close. In July, language schools have intensive courses, and usually retain their existing teaching staff do deliver the teaching (two-three hours per day).

When I did my CELTA, the training establishment offered 'Home Stay'. This is where locals have signed up with schools, with their room availability. It cost 11 euros/night, so over the five weeks it was something like 360 euros (includes almost everything, except food) however, some Home Stay providers, do give food eg, breakfast and evening meal.

I was extremely lucky with my Home Stay; there was an English teacher living here already and my host, who is a 30 something Spaniard, is interested in English language and speaks it well (even doing Cambridge First Certificate in Brighton, of all places). We all get on famously; I'm still living here (hard to beat I reckon!)

Of course, during your CELTA, you will need to budget for the following:

CELTA (paid before arrival)
Flight (I got a one way as I never intended returning to the UK - EasyJet flight to Barcelona just cost me at the time £26.00!! But you're in Holland, I note.
Home Stay (paid on arrival, to your host)
Daily living expenses (I worked on the basis of 20-30 euros/day) although, that figure was never spent. Of course, depends on your social preferences. However, the CELTA will take up most of your time so, socially (or the touristy bits) will, in reality, only happen at the weekend!

Above all, and that includes money, you really must be in a good frame of mind; stress-free, positive and have a real 'can-do' attitude. CELTA is tough because it's a condensed course over a short period of time, and one has to fulfil all the criteria. After-all, it is an internationally recognised language teaching qualification and has the potential to take you all over the world (where there is a need) and where there is individual desire.

I have been teaching English now for over a year; however, I am a certified clinical teacher (in the NHS) so, for me, the art of teaching has been with me for some time - just needed to adapt it to the subject matter.

I did my CELTA in the October and got a job two weeks after completion. Actually, I could have had a job the day after completing the CELTA but it was my choice as I wanted at least a two week break.

In terms of the usual 09.00-17.00 pattern of the UK, you'll be hard-pressed to find something like that teaching English. Much of the language is taught in private schools; students attend their regular schooling/university and then go for language classes after this has finished. A typical working week, for me, at least, is: 17:30-21:30, 15:45-20:30 and on Friday, 15:45-17:15. I work a total of 20 hours per week, which suits me fine, and gives me a reasonable salary at the end. Some schools will also contribute towards commuting costs (mine does) even though I only have to travel 8 mins on the train and at minimal cost (a T-10 travel card just costs me 7,95 euros!!)

Some schools do have hours that may be something like, 09:30 - 11:30 or combinations of early starts, mid starts, late starts. In-company classes (teaching in a business setting) have varied start and end times. Mine is 08:00-10:00, which suits them and me fine.

Private lessons is completely down to the individual - I would suggest consolidating your CELTA first, in a school setting, just for confidence building and then set about marketing yourself for private lessons. The average hourly rate is around 15,00 euros/hour; of course, you could charge more, but you'd probably lose against what competition there may be.

Anyway, Adam, hope this all helps. I wish someone had given me all of this information before I came. Don't be scared by any aspect of it; see it as a positive and if you are serious/determined enough, then you will do it, fella!

If you considered coming to Barcelona (or the Cambridge School in Granollers)(Google it) then we have a spare room for course duration or longer, should you wish to remain, until you're settled; or even stay as long as you like (330,00 euros/month all inclusive, except fodder!!!)

If you want, contact me on my email (not sure I can list in on here but I'll try)
/SNIP/

I have deliberately spaced it so it doesn't produce a URL/weblink as I don't think I can post on here. But there are no spaces between okay.

Perhaps I'll hear from you even if it's just to ask me stuff!!

All the best, Dave











adamh1 said:


> thank you all for your words of advice and encouragement .
> 
> I suppose my best bet is to find work beforehand and come over and find accomodation after a few days. Or come across with sufficient funds to keep me going until i find work and accomodation.
> 
> Judging from what I've read, the work will consist of a mix of hours split up across the day at language schools and private lessons. Should i expect the working hours to not resemble a 9-5 or is this circumstantial?
> 
> I also saw that there is little work during the summer (except summer camps). How long have you been teaching Manin_bcn? did you find it hard at the beginning?
> 
> sorry for all the question - i appreciate the help.
> 
> adam


----------



## xabiaxica

Manin_bcn said:


> Hi Adam,
> 
> there wouldn't be any point in trying to find work, as an English teacher at least, until you have actually completed the CELTA course. Accommodation is easily found (and in abundance). You are correct about teaching during the summer months, particularly August, where all schools close. In July, language schools have intensive courses, and usually retain their existing teaching staff do deliver the teaching (two-three hours per day).
> 
> When I did my CELTA, the training establishment offered 'Home Stay'. This is where locals have signed up with schools, with their room availability. It cost 11 euros/night, so over the five weeks it was something like 360 euros (includes almost everything, except food) however, some Home Stay providers, do give food eg, breakfast and evening meal.
> 
> I was extremely lucky with my Home Stay; there was an English teacher living here already and my host, who is a 30 something Spaniard, is interested in English language and speaks it well (even doing Cambridge First Certificate in Brighton, of all places). We all get on famously; I'm still living here (hard to beat I reckon!)
> 
> Of course, during your CELTA, you will need to budget for the following:
> 
> CELTA (paid before arrival)
> Flight (I got a one way as I never intended returning to the UK - EasyJet flight to Barcelona just cost me at the time £26.00!! But you're in Holland, I note.
> Home Stay (paid on arrival, to your host)
> Daily living expenses (I worked on the basis of 20-30 euros/day) although, that figure was never spent. Of course, depends on your social preferences. However, the CELTA will take up most of your time so, socially (or the touristy bits) will, in reality, only happen at the weekend!
> 
> Above all, and that includes money, you really must be in a good frame of mind; stress-free, positive and have a real 'can-do' attitude. CELTA is tough because it's a condensed course over a short period of time, and one has to fulfil all the criteria. After-all, it is an internationally recognised language teaching qualification and has the potential to take you all over the world (where there is a need) and where there is individual desire.
> 
> I have been teaching English now for over a year; however, I am a certified clinical teacher (in the NHS) so, for me, the art of teaching has been with me for some time - just needed to adapt it to the subject matter.
> 
> I did my CELTA in the October and got a job two weeks after completion. Actually, I could have had a job the day after completing the CELTA but it was my choice as I wanted at least a two week break.
> 
> In terms of the usual 09.00-17.00 pattern of the UK, you'll be hard-pressed to find something like that teaching English. Much of the language is taught in private schools; students attend their regular schooling/university and then go for language classes after this has finished. A typical working week, for me, at least, is: 17:30-21:30, 15:45-20:30 and on Friday, 15:45-17:15. I work a total of 20 hours per week, which suits me fine, and gives me a reasonable salary at the end. Some schools will also contribute towards commuting costs (mine does) even though I only have to travel 8 mins on the train and at minimal cost (a T-10 travel card just costs me 7,95 euros!!)
> 
> Some schools do have hours that may be something like, 09:30 - 11:30 or combinations of early starts, mid starts, late starts. In-company classes (teaching in a business setting) have varied start and end times. Mine is 08:00-10:00, which suits them and me fine.
> 
> Private lessons is completely down to the individual - I would suggest consolidating your CELTA first, in a school setting, just for confidence building and then set about marketing yourself for private lessons. The average hourly rate is around 15,00 euros/hour; of course, you could charge more, but you'd probably lose against what competition there may be.
> 
> Anyway, Adam, hope this all helps. I wish someone had given me all of this information before I came. Don't be scared by any aspect of it; see it as a positive and if you are serious/determined enough, then you will do it, fella!
> 
> If you considered coming to Barcelona (or the Cambridge School in Granollers)(Google it) then we have a spare room for course duration or longer, should you wish to remain, until you're settled; or even stay as long as you like (330,00 euros/month all inclusive, except fodder!!!)
> 
> If you want, contact me on my email (not sure I can list in on here but I'll try)
> /SNIP/
> 
> I have deliberately spaced it so it doesn't produce a URL/weblink as I don't think I can post on here. But there are no spaces between okay.
> 
> Perhaps I'll hear from you even if it's just to ask me stuff!!
> 
> All the best, Dave


I HAVE taken off the e mail addy - the PM system is safer

you should be able to post links though - obviously relevant ones in response to a request


----------



## Manin_bcn

sp1j said:


> A CELTA/TEFL certificate isn't the be all and end all. In Spain the language schools are more interested in your experience than your qualification. I recommend doing some volunteer lessons in your local community before you go, or teaching a few lessons online. Any experience helps you find work.


ooooh, I would disagree with you there!

All of the jobs I applied for specifically asked for native English (British/Irish/American) speakers plus CELTA/Trinity, in addition either/or first/master degree!

Anyway, better to be equipped with the tools of the trade, in order to get a good job done


----------



## Manin_bcn

xabiachica said:


> I HAVE taken off the e mail addy - the PM system is safer
> 
> you should be able to post links though - obviously relevant ones in response to a request


okay, I guessed for safety reasons then yes.

What happens if users want to contact individually?


----------



## Manin_bcn

andmac said:


> Hi I am new here (the forum and Spain).
> 
> I am just beginning to teach English - I was a teacher in the UK and have TEFL as well as University level French, Spanish and Linguistics.
> 
> With reference to the advertising, our landlady has come up with a class of six immediately for me which begins next week! It's a mixed ability class but most of the six work in fairly large organisations in the next town along the bay to us. I am really hoping for word of mouth.
> 
> I did set up a free website using a free site creation website (don't know if I can link) and have left business cards in the local businesses we frequent - petrol station, tobacconist, garden centre etc. I am getting a good number of hits a day and slowly building up more work.
> 
> Poco a poco seems to be the mantra around here, so bit by bit it is. It may take a while to get a liveable income but it will be fun and worthwhile!
> 
> Oh, there are a few free classified ads sites out there - I am trying them too! Once things pick up a little or to give business a gentle shove, I might take a small billboard on the way into town to promote myself as no one else in this area is teaching English!


... excellent, well done!

Yes, I, too, developed a free website and that works quite well. In fact, I'm probably getting too many requests and really, I only want about two/three per week!!

One can put a free advert on loquo.com (Barcelona) as I have and I got, not only private work, but companies/schools contacting me, with job offers!

Wow! I'm feeling like a celebrity right now ;-) hehe!


----------



## Guest

15/hour is the going rate in Barcelona? 
Wow.


----------



## Manin_bcn

halydia said:


> 15/hour is the going rate in Barcelona?
> Wow.


... yes, and I'm just on the outskirts really (25 min by train)


----------



## xabiaxica

Manin_bcn said:


> okay, I guessed for safety reasons then yes.
> 
> What happens if users want to contact individually?


there's the Private Message facilty - PM

click on the name of the person you want to send a message to & you'll get a drop-down link to a PM box


----------



## Manin_bcn

xabiachica said:


> there's the Private Message facilty - PM
> 
> click on the name of the person you want to send a message to & you'll get a drop-down link to a PM box


ah, okay, excellent, thank you


----------



## xabiaxica

halydia said:


> 15/hour is the going rate in Barcelona?
> Wow.


do you think that's good??

I charge ever so slightly less than that for one to one - but I'm in a tiny little town - I would have expected far more than that in a big city...


----------



## Manin_bcn

xabiachica said:


> do you think that's good??
> 
> I charge ever so slightly less than that for one to one - but I'm in a tiny little town - I would have expected far more than that in a big city...


... based on the _average_ for BCN, yes, that is good.


----------



## Guest

xabiachica said:


> do you think that's good??
> 
> I charge ever so slightly less than that for one to one - but I'm in a tiny little town - I would have expected far more than that in a big city...


Not at all, especially due to the fact that it's Barcelona!
The going rate is higher up here.


----------



## xabiaxica

Manin_bcn said:


> ... based on the _average_ for BCN, yes, that is good.


really??

I'm glad I don't have to work & pay rent there, then!!

there are teachers in my town charging quite a bit more than that - it has to be said that I'm much busier than they are though


----------



## Guest

xabiachica said:


> really??
> 
> I'm glad I don't have to work & pay rent there, then!!
> 
> there are teachers in my town charging quite a bit more than that - it has to be said that I'm much busier than they are though


Exactly what I was thinking... I'm not interested in looking at an academy since it'd be significantly less than you can earn through private classes.


----------



## Manin_bcn

Hi, I tried the PM thing, clicked on the user but it doesn't give options for PM.


----------



## xabiaxica

Manin_bcn said:


> Hi, I tried the PM thing, clicked on the user but it doesn't give options for PM.


ah - the user must be very new then - it takes quite a few posts & a bit of time before it gets activated


----------



## Manin_bcn

xabiachica said:


> ah - the user must be very new then - it takes quite a few posts & a bit of time before it gets activated


yes, user is a newbie :-(


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## xabiaxica

Manin_bcn said:


> yes, user is a newbie :-(


well let's hope he sticks around & gets a bit more active then


----------



## Manin_bcn

xabiachica said:


> well let's hope he sticks around & gets a bit more active then


I'm sure he will - seems enthusiastic enough! )


----------



## xabiaxica

halydia said:


> Exactly what I was thinking... I'm not interested in looking at an academy since it'd be significantly less than you can earn through private classes.


I earn _way_ more privately than I did in the academy

I was offered a partnership in one a while ago - when I worked the finances out I decided that I'd lose out financially BIG TIME!

maybe if I was newish to the area & was wanting something to help me build a reputation - but I've been there & got the t-shirt already - so I don't need it

also this way I have more freedom to choose what, who & when I teach


----------



## Manin_bcn

xabiachica said:


> I earn _way_ more privately than I did in the academy
> 
> I was offered a partnership in one a while ago - when I worked the finances out I decided that I'd lose out financially BIG TIME!
> 
> maybe if I was newish to the area & was wanting something to help me build a reputation - but I've been there & got the t-shirt already - so I don't need it
> 
> also this way I have more freedom to choose what, who & when I teach


... I prefer the regularity of an academy. I think I've just been lucky, really. Mine are exceptionally good, good hourly rate, travel costs, bonus, holidays paid. I can't complain (except a timetable teaching kids) which I am hoping to lose!

I also have in-company classes; an area I have more of an affinity with - it's just, so, different!!


----------



## Manin_bcn

Manin_bcn said:


> ... I prefer the regularity of an academy. I think I've just been lucky, really. Mine are exceptionally good, good hourly rate, travel costs, bonus, holidays paid. I can't complain (except a timetable teaching kids) which I am hoping to lose!
> 
> I also have in-company classes; an area I have more of an affinity with - it's just, so, different!!


oh, and by the way, in-company classes here in BCN, I am paid 26,00 euro/hour!!


----------



## Guest

Manin_bcn said:


> ... I prefer the regularity of an academy. I think I've just been lucky, really. Mine are exceptionally good, good hourly rate, travel costs, bonus, holidays paid. I can't complain (except a timetable teaching kids) which I am hoping to lose!
> 
> I also have in-company classes; an area I have more of an affinity with - it's just, so, different!!


You've been extremely lucky. I've heard all sorts of academy stories!


----------



## Pesky Wesky

Manin_bcn said:


> ... I prefer the regularity of an academy. I think I've just been lucky, really. Mine are exceptionally good, good hourly rate, travel costs, bonus, holidays paid. I can't complain (except a timetable teaching kids) which I am hoping to lose!
> 
> I also have in-company classes; an area I have more of an affinity with - it's just, so, different!!


I always recommend newly qualified teachers to do a couple of years in an academy before trying things out on their own for several reasons really.


The variety of classes. You usually have to teach different types of classes groups, teens kids, one to ones, company, intensives etc etc., taking you ort of your comfort zone and giving you opportunities to work in different environments. It can potentially give you a good grounding in all of those. There may be some surprises for you there, for example having trained as a middle school teacher you'd have thought that I'd enjoy teaching kids. Well no, I don't, mainly because in an academy setting they come in after school, or on Saturdays and it's usually the ones who are doing badly at school, forced by their parents, not because they love English so much they want extra.Not the easiest of students (and you also have to deal with parents)
You should get to see and use a variety of materials and teaching methods.
You should have advice and support from the DOS and/ or other teachers which will help you develop as a teacher
The academy should be able to provide you with a stable salary!
Even if the academy isn't a good one you get a grounding in all the worst case scenarios, for example timetables. Xabiachica mentions working until 10:00pm and starting again at 8:00 which is a practice in many academies, but which isn't very nice to work, especially when you think what time you'll get to bed, and what time you'll have to get up in the morning to get to that class, which at 8:00 is usually a company class on the outskirts of the city.

Speaking of company classes, as manin said, they are usually paid at a higher rate than academy classes. My rates are higher than those mentioned here, but I'm near Madrid and I'm self employed. For more info about my experience in company classes look at post 397 and others. For more info about going self employed see post 347.

Being self employed has its advantages of course, the main one for me is being able to choose to a certain extent what you want to do. I say to a certain extent 'cos working 9:00 - 5:00, unless you're working in a school is unlikely. I work in these time frames 7:30 - 9:30, 1:45 - 4:00 and 5:00 - 7:00. I can have my lunch at 1:00 or 4:00, and I choose to have it at 4:00 'cos 1:00 is outrageously early here and I don't have time to cook it _*and*_ eat it at that time anyway. I work at these times (giving classes 'cos obviously in between times I'm going to class or preparing) 'cos that's when students want classes.


----------



## adamh1

Lots of valuable information here. It seems like the best option for teaching english would be to start at an academy and bring enough funds with me to ensure i can make ends meet for the first months.


The coruse of action im likeyl to take will be to start a 4 week intensive Celta course either in February here in Holland or in Autumn in Spain.

thanks all for the info, ill check back regulary for other info from the forum.

cheers,
Adam


----------



## Pesky Wesky

*self employed, autonomo, autonomos*

Went to go off autonomo/ self employed yesterday. 
Goodness, has this changed!! I don't know if it's El Escorial (always a few degrees cooler) or what, but from the smiley security guard in the tax office, the guy who gave me the forms, the man who saw to me in the social security office, everyone was kind, helpful and courteous. Some one even stopped their car several metres before the zebra crossing and waited for me to go across!!!!!!! What with this and people not talking over each other, listening to each other and waiting their turn to speak in the 15M meetings, is this the end of Spain as we know it? 

PS Info about being autonomo/ self employed in Spain. Post 8 shows links to many other threads
http://www.expatforum.com/expats/spain-expat-forum-expats-living-spain/78524-autonomo.html


----------



## baldilocks

Pesky Wesky said:


> Went to go off autonomo/ self employed yesterday.
> Goodness, has this changed!! I don't know if it's El Escorial (always a few degrees cooler) or what, but from the smiley security guard in the tax office, the guy who gave me the forms, the man who saw to me in the social security office, everyone was kind, helpful and courteous. Some one even stopped their car several metres before the zebra crossing and waited for me to go across!!!!!!! What with this and people not talking over each other, listening to each other and waiting their turn to speak in the 15M meetings, is this the end of Spain as we know it?
> 
> PS Info about being autonomo/ self employed in Spain. Post 8 shows links to many other threads
> http://www.expatforum.com/expats/spain-expat-forum-expats-living-spain/78524-autonomo.html


Maybe it's because school's out and they aren't so overstressed.


----------



## Aire

*Paid Teaching English in Spain Jobs*

Do you know of a legitimate, paid opportunity to teach English in Spain during the summer months? I am not registered as a teacher in the states, but I have a bachelor's degree. I also spent many years studying Spanish in undergrad. I'm a graduate student, so I am looking for a paid position during the summer months of 2012. I will not be able to interrupt the semesters to teach for a full year. The programs geared toward young students where a fee is required to enroll is not feasible for me. I am looking for programs that offer a stipend. I also am looking for a company with a good track record. Any and all help much appreciated!


----------



## Guest

Are you an EU citizen and/or do you have the visa required to legally work? 
A *paid* summer job like you are looking for is unlikely to be found. I do know that there are "camps" which bring natives in for free room and board, but I'm almost certain they don't pay.


----------



## Aire

Not an EU citizen. I live in the US and I'm a citizen here. How hard/easy is it to get a work visa?


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## Guest

Aire said:


> Not an EU citizen. I live in the US and I'm a citizen here. How hard/easy is it to get a work visa?


Without getting sponsored or being independently wealthy, it's pretty ridiculously hard. 

There *is* a way to teach legally, but the program runs from October 1 - May 31.


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## thrax

I teach English privately and work in the summer months is almost non-existent particularly in August.


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## Pesky Wesky

thrax said:


> I teach English privately and work in the summer months is almost non-existent particularly in August.


Apart from that, it's the poster's nationality that's the "problem" thrax.

There are loads of summer camps/ intensive courses for kids which start to advertise for staff after Easter, but they're mainly aimed at young, single teachers and you may be required to do sports activities, trips out, night duties etc...


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## justinecharles

Hi I wonder if somebody could advise me on options. I live with my family in Brighton UK and my partner has the option of relocating to Barcelona with his company. He works in IT. My daughter is now 9 and I'd be worried about her slipping behind if she were to enter the state schooling system. I am thinking of enrolling her into an international school if we do go. I need to earn enough money to cover the fees! I am wondering whether I might find work. I work as a project coordinator at Sussex University and am also a linguist. I studied german to degree level and speak fluent french having worked abroad for a number of years previously in International Organisations. Unfortunately my spanish is more basic. I have basic conversational spanish. Would I be better eoff following a TEFL course and trying to get a job teaching English or would I be more likely to find admin work using english and my other languages and improving my spanish. i'm not sure what direction to take or where the best opportunities would be. We are thinking of basing ourselves in Sitges but this all depends on schools etc. Please could anyone advise? Justine from Brighton


----------



## Pesky Wesky

justinecharles said:


> Hi I wonder if somebody could advise me on options. I live with my family in Brighton UK and my partner has the option of relocating to Barcelona with his company. He works in IT. My daughter is now 9 and I'd be worried about her slipping behind if she were to enter the state schooling system. I am thinking of enrolling her into an international school if we do go. I need to earn enough money to cover the fees! I am wondering whether I might find work. I work as a project coordinator at Sussex University and am also a linguist. I studied german to degree level and speak fluent french having worked abroad for a number of years previously in International Organisations. Unfortunately my spanish is more basic. I have basic conversational spanish. Would I be better eoff following a TEFL course and trying to get a job teaching English or would I be more likely to find admin work using english and my other languages and improving my spanish. i'm not sure what direction to take or where the best opportunities would be. We are thinking of basing ourselves in Sitges but this all depends on schools etc. Please could anyone advise? Justine from Brighton


Hi Justine,
As a qualified teacher I estimate you'd be making a GROSS salary of around 1100/ 1200 euros, so you'd be taking home around 900 (?? correct me if I'm wrong), so the money ain't great. As you have a family that you might actually plan to see and share your life with you also need to know that if you work in an academy the timetables are a little difficult. Most work being in the evening when schools and offices chuck out (5:00 - 10:00 ish). You might get company work at 8:00 - 9:30 ish and lunch times (2:00 - 4:00) are very popular too. I don't know if that would be enough money and if you'd be able to work round those main time slots. A large number of teachers supplement their income with private classes off the books, but apart from not being legal so not paying taxes, they are not of course guaranteed so it's not advisable to build your life around something so unstable.

I don't know what a project manager does exactly, so I don't know what skills you have, but languages are always sought after.

I don't know. Maybe get your TEFL just in case, but be on the look out for other jobs that will probably be better paid?

Having said all that, I suppose you know the unemployment  statistics for Spain, do you?

There are loads of threads on here that will be useful to you
Teaching in Spain
(Un)employment
education
...


----------



## xabiaxica

Pesky Wesky said:


> Hi Justine,
> As a qualified teacher I estimate you'd be making a GROSS salary of around 1100/ 1200 euros, so you'd be taking home around 900 (?? correct me if I'm wrong), so the money ain't great. As you have a family that you might actually plan to see and share your life with you also need to know that if you work in an academy the timetables are a little difficult. Most work being in the evening when schools and offices chuck out (5:00 - 10:00 ish). You might get company work at 8:00 - 9:30 ish and lunch times (2:00 - 4:00) are very popular too. I don't know if that would be enough money and if you'd be able to work round those main time slots. A large number of teachers supplement their income with private classes off the books, but apart from not being legal so not paying taxes, they are not of course guaranteed so it's not advisable to build your life around something so unstable.
> 
> I don't know what a project manager does exactly, so I don't know what skills you have, but languages are always sought after.
> 
> I don't know. Maybe get your TEFL just in case, but be on the look out for other jobs that will probably be better paid?
> 
> Having said all that, I suppose you know the unemployment  statistics for Spain, do you?
> 
> There are loads of threads on here that will be useful to you
> Teaching in Spain
> (Un)employment
> education
> ...


yes, agree with all that.....but to be fair a 9 year old should be absolutely fine in state school in any case, so money/ a job might not be such a huge issue - unless it's a temporary move in which case International school might well be the best option


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## justinecharles

Hi all
Thanks very much for your honest replies. This has been very helpful and confirmed my concerns! I do realise how bad the economy is out there and how much unemployment there is. Its not a great time to be considering Spain! That said we are still going to have a good think about it. We'd probably go the international school route in case we wanted to come after a year or something. So I'd definitely need to work. I might rethink the whole TEFL idea and focus on my present skills and languages, see what I might be able to do with those. Time will tell! Best wishes. Justine


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## Pesky Wesky

justinecharles said:


> Hi all
> Thanks very much for your honest replies. This has been very helpful and confirmed my concerns! I do realise how bad the economy is out there and how much unemployment there is. Its not a great time to be considering Spain! That said we are still going to have a good think about it. We'd probably go the international school route in case we wanted to come after a year or something. So I'd definitely need to work. I might rethink the whole TEFL idea and focus on my present skills and languages, see what I might be able to do with those. Time will tell! Best wishes. Justine


Well, I'm just glad you took it the right way, because although people ask for advice when they come on the forum, they often don't like what they hear, and think we're trying to put them off for some reason!

So, you seem sensible. Just do your research, ask for help when you need it, and make your own mind up! 
Best wishes to you too


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## theshaftwis

redleaf(dot)es. this is a candaian summer camp, they might help, as was said before teaching in the summer is very hard to find


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## theshaftwis

*Teaching English Qualifications*

I have done a very good tefl course. 


I am looking for work in Spain
I have been wondering if a tesol would be a big improvement for finding work (its expensive and would be worth noting in Ireland). I already have experience working as a teacher in spain and currently living there.

Also looking to give 1 to 1 lessons, I have put up ads everywhere in the local area not sure what else to do. Maybe papers?


----------



## xabiaxica

theshaftwis said:


> I have done a very good tefl course.
> 
> 
> I am looking for work in Spain
> I have been wondering if a tesol would be a big improvement for finding work (its expensive and would be worth noting in Ireland). I already have experience working as a teacher in spain and currently living there.
> 
> Also looking to give 1 to 1 lessons, I have put up ads everywhere in the local area not sure what else to do. Maybe papers?


As you have found, it's not easy

In theory, another qualification should help.........but in these times, I don't know - certainly the better academies want more & more qualifications

have a read of this http://www.expatforum.com/expats/spain-expat-forum-expats-living-spain/26226-teaching-english-spain.html


----------



## Pesky Wesky

*teaching English, teaching qualifications, tefl, tesol*

I don't think a TESOL qualification will give you anything that you haven't got with the TEFL. TESOL, as I understand it is more common in the US and while there are certain differences between second and foreign language teaching, at a basic level they overlap.
If you wanted a further qualification, and especially if you are thinking of the Spanish job market, I would recommend the Young Learners certificate, Business English Certicate or the Diploma course. However, I'm not sure if these would make your CV more attractive to employers, even though they would be useful to you as a teacher. Probably what you need more than anything at the moment is experience. There should be quite a lot of jobs coming up this month, so look at the links that are given for looking for jobs in the Teaching English thread. Obviously it's easier if you're flexible as to which area you go to.
PS Send your CV off to as many academies as you can, or go to them personally and ask if they're looking for new teachers


----------



## Guest

theshaftwis said:


> I have done a very good tefl course.
> 
> 
> I am looking for work in Spain
> I have been wondering if a tesol would be a big improvement for finding work (its expensive and would be worth noting in Ireland). I already have experience working as a teacher in spain and currently living there.
> 
> Also looking to give 1 to 1 lessons, I have put up ads everywhere in the local area not sure what else to do. Maybe papers?


Would you be willing to work in the public system? (Have you worked in the public system?)


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## thrax

A good idea would be to put up adverts for private tuition in schools and colleges. It's where I get most of my work from. The Spanish are very keen for native speakers to teach their kids privately and I can earn 20 - 40 euros an hour and with most students having 2 hours a week it adds up quickly to a decent income. You must be prepared to work some unsociable hours as they mostly want lessons after school 4 pm - 8 pm and weekends. Students who wish to enter University have to sit a tough exam part of which is English and they must achieve an 80% pass mark. They sit this exam in September so most parents look for private tuition from about now for next year. Good luck!!


----------



## Pesky Wesky

thrax said:


> A good idea would be to put up adverts for private tuition in schools and colleges. It's where I get most of my work from. The Spanish are very keen for native speakers to teach their kids privately and I can earn 20 - 40 euros an hour and with most students having 2 hours a week it adds up quickly to a decent income. You must be prepared to work some unsociable hours as they mostly want lessons after school 4 pm - 8 pm and weekends. Students who wish to enter University have to sit a tough exam part of which is English and they must achieve an 80% pass mark. They sit this exam in September so most parents look for private tuition from about now for next year. Good luck!!


Yes, good idea thrax.
But...
they sit the exam in September? The PAU?
Only if it's a re-sit, surely?
Anyway, here they do the getting into uni exams in June and have re-sits in Sept


----------



## andmac

Hi, good luck with your search.

When we came here I was initially offered 10€ an hour by a school. So I decided to set up on my own. 

I have been teaching 1 to 1 so far and some online courses. It seems that now is the time to find work. I am also thinking of taking a lease on a "shop" here as there appears to be the market for it.

I have used announcements websites and given out cards and stuck posters up and people do want to learn.

However, in this area the going rate seems quite low. I have other options though.

As far as qualifications go, TEFL and TESOL do indeed overlap. I do have the PGCE which is a postgrad course in education, this definitely helps and would recommend anyone to get this or at least the first few modules (PTTLLS, CTLLS).


----------



## Pesky Wesky

andmac said:


> Hi, good luck with your search.
> 
> When we came here I was initially offered 10€ an hour by a school. So I decided to set up on my own.
> 
> I have been teaching 1 to 1 so far and some online courses. It seems that now is the time to find work. I am also thinking of taking a lease on a "shop" here as there appears to be the market for it.
> 
> I have used announcements websites and given out cards and stuck posters up and people do want to learn.
> 
> However, in this area the going rate seems quite low. I have other options though.
> 
> As far as qualifications go, TEFL and TESOL do indeed overlap. I do have the PGCE which is a postgrad course in education, this definitely helps and would recommend anyone to get this or at least the first few modules (PTTLLS, CTLLS).


The PGCE may well be a good qualification if you're thinking about teaching children. It is, after all, probably the largest market in Spain. Unfortunately, if you work in academies it's also the most badly paid. If you work in international or British schools you'll _*need*_ the PGCE or B Ed, and you'll be better paid, much better I believe.
The other, quite large market, is company classes where the PGCE doesn't really help you. The most successful company class teachers have wide experience, have worked outside teaching themselves, need to be free early mornings and lunch times above all and may need a car as so many businesses are outside the towns and cities.
And then you have aldult classes either in academies or as privates which can be great but can be the most unreliable as many people start off with a lot of enthusiasm which dwindles considerably by February, or are taking classes until they get a job.


----------



## andmac

Pesky Wesky said:


> The PGCE may well be a good qualification if you're thinking about teaching children. It is, after all, probably the largest market in Spain. Unfortunately, if you work in academies it's also the most badly paid. If you work in international or British schools you'll _*need*_ the PGCE or B Ed, and you'll be better paid, much better I believe.
> The other, quite large market, is company classes where the PGCE doesn't really help you. The most successful company class teachers have wide experience, have worked outside teaching themselves, need to be free early mornings and lunch times above all and may need a car as so many businesses are outside the towns and cities.
> And then you have aldult classes either in academies or as privates which can be great but can be the most unreliable as many people start off with a lot of enthusiasm which dwindles considerably by February, or are taking classes until they get a job.


Totally agree about the part on needing experience outside of education for business classes. Before I got into teaching, I was a senior manager in a famous food manufacturer. This lends far more credibility to gaining work within companies.
However, the PCGE was aimed at post 16 education, as such some of the content was very important. There are variations on this course with some modules having elements aimed at school age education. Classroom management and maintaining adult motivation are different to how you handle a class of children. 

But pedagogical theories aside, most individuals seem happy with just a native speaker. You offer to show them your credentials, and 9 times out of 10 they are not interested in seeing some certificates or a CV! But have them ready for the 1 in 10 who will want to see them.
Company classes does seem to be a great seam to mine though as businesses want to deal with an ever more global and English speaking world! They also seem to like to see some certificates and importantly a CV!


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## Pesky Wesky

andmac said:


> Totally agree about the part on needing experience outside of education for business classes. Before I got into teaching, I was a senior manager in a famous food manufacturer. This lends far more credibility to gaining work within companies.
> However, the PCGE was aimed at post 16 education, as such some of the content was very important. There are variations on this course with some modules having elements aimed at school age education. Classroom management and maintaining adult motivation are different to how you handle a class of children.
> 
> But pedagogical theories aside, most individuals seem happy with just a native speaker. You offer to show them your credentials, and 9 times out of 10 they are not interested in seeing some certificates or a CV! But have them ready for the 1 in 10 who will want to see them.
> Company classes does seem to be a great seam to mine though as businesses want to deal with an ever more global and English speaking world! They also seem to like to see some certificates and importantly a CV!


Yes, agree with all of that andmac. Would just add that academies also like to have native speakers, _*and*_ some minimum qualification like a TEFL certificate. Bods on the street seem to take anything you say as true...


----------



## andmac

Pesky Wesky said:


> Yes, agree with all of that andmac. Would just add that academies also like to have native speakers, _*and*_ some minimum qualification like a TEFL certificate. Bods on the street seem to take anything you say as true...


Hi Pesky Wesky, that´s true. Definitely some sort of TEFL is required.


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## thrax

Pesky Wesky said:


> Yes, good idea thrax.
> But...
> they sit the exam in September? The PAU?
> Only if it's a re-sit, surely?
> Anyway, here they do the getting into uni exams in June and have re-sits in Sept


Absolutely right, and what I meant..... parents are looking for a year of extra tuition before the June exams and also help towards resits in September. Two of my students are facing resits this month and sadly I know why...


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## theshaftwis

halydia said:


> Would you be willing to work in the public system? (Have you worked in the public system?)


Thank you for all the replies!

I would be delighted working in the public system!! What do I have to do for that??

I just finished a Level 5 Dip in TESOL. This diploma is a distance course, but it is very complete and it’s accredited at Level 5 in the National Qualification Framework in England. (Diploma in TESOL) It doesn’t have Teaching Practice, but I had a 4 months contract as an English Teacher last year, so I might be able to make up for that.

I was considering doing the CELTA now, but I am not sure if it is worth it for me to do the CELTA, as it is very expesinve, I already have an accredited qualification and the CELTA is also Level 5… Can anyone give advice on this? Will having the CELTA really increase my chances of getting a job? Is there any other course that I could do? What is the best way to approach English schools in Spain?


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## Guest

You've come in too late for this school year but there's a number of becas each year to work 12 hrs/wk as a teaching assistant in Cantabrian public schools (this program also exists in all other autonomous region for those interested.) It's called _auxiliares de conversacion_. The convocatoria comes out around April so watch the BOC. 

Here's this year's convocatoria: 
http://boc.cantabria.es/boces/verAnuncioAction.do?idAnuBlob=208455

It _might_ even be worth trying to apply now, in the event they have spaces still available. 

Good luck!


----------



## clayt81

Hi Guys,

This is about moving to Spain but i know where and i have decided to go.

Long story short - my parents and sister moved to Murcia Region in May this year. My dads health (although 100% times better then what it was over here) isnt the greatest and i want to move out their to be closer to them. I know 2.5 hrs on a plane isnt long but i used to pop round and see them most weekends.

Im looking at moving out there in March 2012 with my girlfirend and ive looked into property and can get a townhouse/villa for around 400-500euros pm. Is that good/bad?

I currently work as a financial advisor, mainly mortgages and insurance, which probably isnt the busiest of industries in Spain at present. Im only 29 and im expecting a major reduction in salary and i dont even mind a change in career, but my concern is what? What can i do out there which doesnt rely on the tourists coming over in the summer? Previously i worked as a manager of a high street bank so could i work in a Spanish Bank in an english part of town? Do Carrefour or Mercadona types of supermarkets hire Brits? Like a said i dont really care were i work as long as its enough to pay the bills and theres work in the winter months.

Any ideas, or ideas or where to go and ask would be much appreciated.

Thank you

Clayton


----------



## Manin_bcn

Why don't you do a CELTA course (for teaching English). One would argue that the Spanish market is saturated with English teachers (I am one) but, there are jobs-a-plenty, I can assure you!

Website: CELTA ? Most widely taken English language teaching qualification | Cambridge ESOL

But, please, if you do consider it DO NOT undertake an online course. You will not succeed in getting a job.

The CELTA course is 4 weeks (some places offer 5 weeks) and is around 1400€. You don't need to be super-fantastic in English but a good level of course, is needed. You learn to teach, not being taught English!

Pay wise: around about 1400€ per month (varies) but enough to live on fairly reasonably.


----------



## Manin_bcn

theshaftwis said:


> I have done a very good tefl course.
> 
> 
> I am looking for work in Spain
> I have been wondering if a tesol would be a big improvement for finding work (its expensive and would be worth noting in Ireland). I already have experience working as a teacher in spain and currently living there.
> 
> Also looking to give 1 to 1 lessons, I have put up ads everywhere in the local area not sure what else to do. Maybe papers?


What about Segunda mano Barcelona, Anuncios gratis | LoQUo.com ? Have you tried that?


----------



## Manin_bcn

Pesky Wesky said:


> The PGCE may well be a good qualification if you're thinking about teaching children. It is, after all, probably the largest market in Spain. Unfortunately, if you work in academies it's also the most badly paid. If you work in international or British schools you'll _*need*_ the PGCE or B Ed, and you'll be better paid, much better I believe.
> The other, quite large market, is company classes where the PGCE doesn't really help you. The most successful company class teachers have wide experience, have worked outside teaching themselves, need to be free early mornings and lunch times above all and may need a car as so many businesses are outside the towns and cities.
> And then you have aldult classes either in academies or as privates which can be great but can be the most unreliable as many people start off with a lot of enthusiasm which dwindles considerably by February, or are taking classes until they get a job.


I wouldn't totally agree with you here. I have the Cambridge CELTA and currently teach business English (in-company) and general English (in academies). I do have a Master's degree though, but that's not helpful.


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## Manin_bcn

Yes, native British (or English) speakers are more sought after and we get paid more than a non-native teacher (about 2-3€ more per hour!)


----------



## Manin_bcn

Pesky Wesky said:


> What qualifications do I need?
> You need a CELTA course minimum. Here is a link to International House who have schools all over the world and training programmes in many of them. You don’t have to do it with them but they have a good name and could probably help place you in a school.
> Teacher Training | Full Time CELTA Course - IH London
> I would google CELTA London or what ever city you want and look for the best price. There are quite a few places in madrid that have courses and probably other Spanish cities too.
> There is also a young learners course for those who want to teach children. See this British Council link
> Teaching Young Learners - Courses & Qualifications | Teaching English | British Council | BBC
> 
> I did my course in the Bell Language school in Norwich a million years ago, although it looks like they don’t do it in Norwich any more
> 
> CELTA courses - Certificate in English Language Teaching to Adults


I did mine over here in Barcelona - better chance of a job if you're in the country!


----------



## Manin_bcn

barca said:


> Hi justine,
> i think the advice you have been given is correct. It's very difficult to get any sort of job at the moment so do (e.g. getting more qulaifications) everything you can to improve your chances of finding something. My advice would be to look everywhere and anywhere.
> Sitges is a nice place to live but you may find you have the commute into Barcelona (if you can't find anything around Sitges) a bit tough/expensive. Although the train (30 mins) is good and goes straight into the centre of town - so is possible.


... Oh, there are tons of jobs for English teachers in Barca! Just look on loquo.com the jobs are posted every day.

Barcelona (or Spain, in general) may be saturated by English teachers but many are young and use their CELTA as a travel passport! The older (oops, more mature one is) the better.

Of course, secondary qualifications add strength to one's CELTA/TEFL qualification but basically academies ask for native English speakers.


----------



## xabiaxica

Manin_bcn said:


> Why don't you do a CELTA course (for teaching English). One would argue that the Spanish market is saturated with English teachers (I am one) but, there are jobs-a-plenty, I can assure you!
> 
> Website: CELTA ? Most widely taken English language teaching qualification | Cambridge ESOL
> 
> But, please, if you do consider it DO NOT undertake an online course. You will not succeed in getting a job.
> 
> The CELTA course is 4 weeks (some places offer 5 weeks) and is around 1400€. You don't need to be super-fantastic in English but a good level of course, is needed. You learn to teach, not being taught English!
> 
> Pay wise: around about 1400€ per month (varies) but enough to live on fairly reasonably.


there might well be jobs a plenty in Barcelona, but in my town on the Costa Blanca 2 of the 4 language academies have closed down & only 1 of those left is offering English classes afaik - so really there would be no work 

also, outside the cities the hourly rate is pathetic - certainly not enough to live on unless you actually managed to get the 35 hours a week you'd need to earn the 1400 a month you quote

and then of course you'd _still_ have your autonomo to pay...............so you'd already be down to 1120-1150 - or you'd need to work at least another 6/7 hours a week to make that up

so even if you could get the hours - add in prep & marking time, plus travelling time if you're moving around..............50+ hours a week?????


----------



## Pesky Wesky

Manin_bcn said:


> ... Oh, there are tons of jobs for English teachers in Barca! Just look on loquo.com the jobs are posted every day.
> 
> Barcelona (or Spain, in general) may be saturated by English teachers but many are young and use their CELTA as a travel passport! The older (oops, more mature one is) the better.
> 
> Of course, secondary qualifications add strength to one's CELTA/TEFL qualification but basically academies ask for native English speakers.


I agree - and look at the pay! 

You very often, but not always admittedly, need to work in 3 different academies to get a liveable salary.
It's true the turn over is high as Spain is usually the first stop before going to S America. Somehow I did it the other way round...
The older, more mature you are may be good for adult classes, but not always for children's classes. Stereotypes I know,but they do exist.

Anyway, I think the basic advice is, be warned; it might not be as easy as it once was, don't expect to feed a family on a TEFL teachers salary, be prepared to be flexible and move where the work is.


----------



## Pesky Wesky

Manin_bcn said:


> I wouldn't totally agree with you here. I have the Cambridge CELTA and currently teach business English (in-company) and general English (in academies). I do have a Master's degree though, but that's not helpful.


I'm not saying you can't do it without experience outside TEFL. What I am saying is if you have experience in different fields I think, and it's generally believed, you probably have more understanding of the business student's role within the company and as a student. I would agree with you that a degree or Masters doesn't add anything to your average teacher's teaching ability.

But, half the battle with teaching is having a pleasant personality. If you don't warm to people - and if they can't warm to you, you might as well forget it.


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## Pesky Wesky

Here's something about Navarra - a scheme kind of like the Brit. Council idea, but for private schools. It says that your living expenses would be covered, so sounds like it's not very well paid and interestingly enough one of the requirements is not to have teaching experience...

It also says that it's supported by the Public Uni of Navarra and the Governnment of Navarra.

I have no idea if this is legit or not, but may be worth taking a look.
...UP International Education...


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## thrax

We have been inundated with requests for teachers and we discovered this is because several of the local schools have told parents if they want their kids to speak English properly they need to employ native speakers. So most of my new classes are conversation only. We generally charge €20 and hour for up to four in a class and then a further €5 per student on top. This still works out far cheaper per child than the local English language schools. In some instances we are able to charge €40 per hour, where the classes are for adults working in government funded institutions.


----------



## Natface

*Working as a private TEFL teacher in Spain*

Can anybody tell me what a qualified TEFL teacher can charge per hour if giving private tuition? 

I've just moved to Marbella and VERY new to this!

Any help / suggestions would be much appreciated

Gracias! 

Nat


----------



## xabiaxica

Natface said:


> Can anybody tell me what a qualified TEFL teacher can charge per hour if giving private tuition?
> 
> I've just moved to Marbella and VERY new to this!
> 
> Any help / suggestions would be much appreciated
> 
> Gracias!
> 
> Nat


Hi & welcome

I've moved your post to the 'Teaching English in Spain' thread, which should give you some ideas


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## jane.in.spain

*Help!*

Hi 'Thrax'

My name is Jane and I have recently moved to Frigiliana, as I am the English teaching assistant at the colegio this year. I am rostered on to teach 14 hours per week at the colegio..so will have quite a bit of spare time on my hands! 

I am interested in doing some English tutoring work and have asked various people around town about the best way to go about finding students. Most people have said that there may not be much work at the moment, given the economic climate, however have suggested putting up flyers at the school, shops etc. They also said that the going rate is approx. 5 Euros/hour. 

I was interested to read your recent post on this forum however as it was somewhat more positive! If you have time, I would be grateful if we could meet up to discuss the best way for me to get some work (without wanting to take away from your business of course!!). I am happy to travel to Nerja to work if need be.

A bit about me..I am 27 years old, from Brisbane, Australia, I'm a corporate lawyer by trade but am taking some time off to re-check on where my career is going. I have no formal teaching qualifications but have a Bachelors Degree in Business Management and Law and a Masters Degree in Law so I would like to think that I have a reasonable understanding of the English language! 

Thanks for your time and I look forward to hearing from you - Jane


----------



## baldilocks

jane.in.spain said:


> A bit about me..I am 27 years old, from Brisbane, Australia, I'm a corporate lawyer by trade but am taking some time off to re-check on where my career is going. I have no formal teaching qualifications but have a Bachelors Degree in Business Management and Law and a Masters Degree in Law so I would like to think that I have a reasonable understanding of the English language!
> 
> Thanks for your time and I look forward to hearing from you - Jane


BUT what accent do you have? Some Spaniards don't want non-UK accents, and even others are particular about what sort of UK accent. I have heard of Americans, Asians and Australians with strong accents being rejected. 

How good is your Spanish? While, in theory, you may be able to teach English without having much Spanish, it is so much better if you are able to explain points in the student's own language.


----------



## jane.in.spain

baldilocks said:


> BUT what accent do you have? Some Spaniards don't want non-UK accents, and even others are particular about what sort of UK accent. I have heard of Americans, Asians and Australians with strong accents being rejected.
> 
> How good is your Spanish? While, in theory, you may be able to teach English without having much Spanish, it is so much better if you are able to explain points in the student's own language.


My accent is not a strong 'Aussie' accent and is similar to 'British' English! I studied in Mexico for one year during university but my Spanish is quite basic unfortunately. I am here to learn though. With those two things going against me, I hope someone wants me!


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## JulyB

Well, I can't help you on the job front, but I wouldn't despair about the accent at all - some of my advanced students have told me that they consider the Australian accent to be the most beautiful of all! (And I'm British, so they weren't complimenting me ).

As long as your accent isn't too strong, most won't notice it. Students at less advanced levels of English usually can't tell and don't care what accent you've got, as long as they can understand you without too much effort. Of course some people get snobby about these things, but it's not so common in my experience and you're still a native speaker, so that's a massive bonus.

Oh, and when I started out teaching English I didn't know ANY Spanish! So you're one up on me!


----------



## Pesky Wesky

jane.in.spain said:


> My accent is not a strong 'Aussie' accent and is similar to 'British' English! I studied in Mexico for one year during university but my Spanish is quite basic unfortunately. I am here to learn though. With those two things going against me, I hope someone wants me!


Some people are down right snobs when it comes to accent and think that Brit is best. Some just have more contact and more "use" for a British accent in their work/ family set up. Other groups include those who don't care, and there is another group who are mature enough to realise that the accent doesn't make or break the teacher, it depends more on professionalism, experience and the ability to build a relationship with clients.
So, peole Do express preferences, rightly or wrongly and the most "asked for"accent is British, American is the least asked for, and Australian is a relatively new player in the game. The students may well not detect the accent, but they will almost certainly ask where you are from, and then their preconceived ideas come into play whether you like it or not.


----------



## xabiaxica

Pesky Wesky said:


> Some people are down right snobs when it comes to accent and think that Brit is best. Some just have more contact and more "use" for a British accent in their work/ family set up. Other groups include those who don't care, and there is another group who are mature enough to realise that the accent doesn't make or break the teacher, it depends more on professionalism, experience and the ability to build a relationship with clients.
> So, peole Do express preferences, rightly or wrongly and the most "asked for"accent is British, American is the least asked for, and Australian is a relatively new player in the game. The students may well not detect the accent, but they wil almost certainly ask where you are from and then their preconceived ideas come into play


you're right - although what is a 'British accent'?

I know I would never have got the job in the language academy I used to work for if I had had a geordie, scouse, brum or Glasgow accent, for example - the German owner quite possibly wouldn't have been able to understand me - & I was later told that I wouldn't even have got as far as interview if I hadn't been from the Home Counties 

I thought that was perhaps a little too specific - but I can understand the need for a soft, rather than strong, accent of any kind

when we first came here my dds were at International school, and the infants teacher is/was from Wales............all the kids who didn't have English as a first language spoke with a beautiful Welsh accent


----------



## thrax

My colleague is from Manchester and when her students get something right she says 'Champion' in a broad Mancunian accent. Now her students are also saying champion when something goes well for them in their lives outside of the classroom...


----------



## baldilocks

Today's dos centimos-worth:

When I first went to Colombia, my Spanish was almost zero so I went to a private tutor. Two lessons were enough. Her voice was so high-pitched that, for a good part of the time, I couldn't understand what she was trying to say to me and trying to "repeat after me" was absolutely impossible. I then went on to teach myself. and was once complimented on my excellent pronunciation.


----------



## Pesky Wesky

xabiachica said:


> you're right - although what is a 'British accent'?
> 
> I know I would never have got the job in the language academy I used to work for if I had had a geordie, scouse, brum or Glasgow accent, for example - the German owner quite possibly wouldn't have been able to understand me - & I was later told that I wouldn't even have got as far as interview if I hadn't been from the Home Counties
> 
> I thought that was perhaps a little too specific - but I can understand the need for a soft, rather than strong, accent of any kind


Well exactly. I was thinking about writing smth similar, but decided I had written enough!


----------



## rc1984

Hello all,

I have been reading through this thread with great interest and decided to post myself with some of my own personal questions.

The reason i've read through all this is because i am interested in becoming a teacher of english in spain. Currently, and for the past 5-6 years i have been working in London in a decent, steady job that has enabled me to build up a nice sum of savings. But, i'm a bit tired of the routine and don't see myself in this job or line of work for much longer as it is not something that particularly enthuses me. Teaching english as a foreign language sounds interesting to me as a license to travel and live in a foreign country and as a profession to get oneself out of the 9-5 daily office routine. And well, i figure i only live once and can always go back to the drudgery of the office routine and steady income if this all fails. I do know some Spanish and am currently studying level B1 as per the DELE diploma...i think this is equivalent of GCSE-level although i intend to continue studying...and i do travel to Spain a lot for vacation so to be there long-term I would like to try.

Having read this thread and others on this forum and elsewhere, I am aware that choosing to take this direction in my career is not exactly the guaranteed path to riches and that living in a foreign country is a much different experience from being there on vacation. The money is not so important though, just enough to get by and pay for the occasional flights back at xmas/easter for example will do. Although any more is welcome of course! This decision is more about a lifestyle choice.

So, my questions...

Firstly, i have been looking into how to get qualified to do such a job. Although i am a native English speaker, no way am I trained to be a teacher. I have helped at schools in England before as a classroom assistant but that was about 10 years ago and right now I wouldn't really know much about how to plan a lesson other than basing it on how i've been taught before. So, my intention is to do the intensive month-long CELTA course to begin with and i wondered if any particular centres are better than others? Is a CELTA from one place always equal to another? And are there any CELTA centres that are particularly good in placing people once they have obtained the qualification? Right now I am guessing that this would be the differentiating factor and have been looking at International House, given the wide range of their network. But it might be more convenient for me to study in Nottingham and unfortunately they do not have a centre there.

Secondly, I have also been looking at the program that the British Council runs in placing English language assistants at schools in Spain but my question here is whether I would really be suitable for that program? It seems like a good way of getting early experience but I am nearly 28 and obviously would be a bit older by the time I started so worried I may be a bit old? Maybe instead it would be better to do the CELTA and then try and find a placement through whichever centre i take the qualification at?

Anyway, that's about it for now...if you've read this far, thanks for reading and for any comments and advice you can give me, especially if there are some things that i have overlooked


----------



## baldilocks

rc1984 said:


> Hello all,


I haven't repeated rc84's entire post because it is right next door.

My wife (also known as SWMBO) is not a trained teacher but she does speak (fluently) English, Spanish and French as first languages and has her degree and diplomas as a tri-lingual interpreter and translator.

The local language academy wanted a native English speaker for teaching children and our solicitor recommended SWMBO. She has been doing it now for 2½years and is doing well. She doesn't make a fortune - about 800€ p.m. (after tax and soc sec) for 19½hrs p.w. during term. She must be doing all right since the most severe punishment that a parent can threaten is ''No English classes'' (note not ''no football'') and the child immediately toes the line.

As far as class planning is concerned, they have a text book to work to so planning is very much out of her hands other than getting the stuff across. The age range she is teaching is from 4 to 17 year olds and already parents are putting kids' names down for next year.


----------



## Pesky Wesky

Short article from Typically Spanish

From typicallyspanish.com
Spanish Oddities
Nine in every 10 Spaniards feel uncomfortable speaking English
By m.p.
Jan 16, 2012 - 3:24 PM

A new survey has shown that nine in every ten Spaniards still feel uncomfortable speaking English, despite the fact that 37% of them have spent more than 15 years studying the language. Thirty five percent said they felt insecure and embarrassed, and 4% said they would not make the attempt in case they seemed ‘ridiculous’.

Europa Press reports that one in two, although knowing that their grammar was not correct, would however try and speak the language.

The survey by ‘Pueblo Inglés – More than English’ also revealed that 98% of those questioned felt that the standard of teaching English in Spain’s schools was not the best. Many felt that more time should be spent on the subject in schools, with particular emphasis on conversations with English speakers and on role playing for real life situations.

Language schools and academies were the most popular method of learning English, but more than half said the best way was spending time abroad in English-speaking countries.


Nine in every 10 Spaniards feel uncomfortable speaking English

However, I still wouldn't say "pack your bags and come over". There are a lot of unemployed people, students or school children who are trying to bring their English up to scratch, but they are hardly high payers. Also the unemployed and students will cancel the moment they get busy with exams or get a job. The higher payers are the companies and they're more likely to cutting classes.

BTW, a student of mine wrote to the "pueblo inglés" asking for info. A week's stay is more than 1800€!! It's true that it guarantees all day English and bed and board, but it's not all day *classes*, and most of the English speakers are people travelling around who are not paid a salary, so where does all the money go?!


----------



## Pesky Wesky

baldilocks said:


> I haven't repeated rc84's entire post because it is right next door.
> 
> My wife (also known as SWMBO) is not a trained teacher but she does speak (fluently) English, Spanish and French as first languages and has her degree and diplomas as a tri-lingual interpreter and translator.
> 
> The local language academy wanted a native English speaker for teaching children and our solicitor recommended SWMBO. She has been doing it now for 2½years and is doing well. She doesn't make a fortune - about 800€ p.m. (after tax and soc sec) for 19½hrs p.w. during term. She must be doing all right since the most severe punishment that a parent can threaten is ''No English classes'' (note not ''no football'') and the child immediately toes the line.
> 
> As far as class planning is concerned, they have a text book to work to so planning is very much out of her hands other than getting the stuff across. The age range she is teaching is from 4 to 17 year olds and already parents are putting kids' names down for next year.


Your wife must feel really proud of the work she's doing!


----------



## baldilocks

Pesky Wesky said:


> Short article from Typically Spanish
> 
> From typicallyspanish.com
> Spanish Oddities
> Nine in every 10 Spaniards feel uncomfortable speaking English
> By m.p.
> Jan 16, 2012 - 3:24 PM
> 
> A new survey has shown that nine in every ten Spaniards still feel uncomfortable speaking English, despite the fact that 37% of them have spent more than 15 years studying the language. Thirty five percent said they felt insecure and embarrassed, and 4% said they would not make the attempt in case they seemed ‘ridiculous’.
> 
> Europa Press reports that one in two, although knowing that their grammar was not correct, would however try and speak the language.
> 
> The survey by ‘Pueblo Inglés – More than English’ also revealed that 98% of those questioned felt that the standard of teaching English in Spain’s schools was not the best. Many felt that more time should be spent on the subject in schools, with particular emphasis on conversations with English speakers and on role playing for real life situations.
> 
> Language schools and academies were the most popular method of learning English, but more than half said the best way was spending time abroad in English-speaking countries.
> 
> 
> Nine in every 10 Spaniards feel uncomfortable speaking English
> 
> However, I still wouldn't say "pack your bags and come over". There are a lot of unemployed people, students or school children who are trying to bring their English up to scratch, but they are hardly high payers. Also the unemployed and students will cancel the moment they get busy with exams or get a job. The higher payers are the companies and they're more likely to cutting classes.
> 
> BTW, a student of mine wrote to the "pueblo inglés" asking for info. A week's stay is more than 1800€!! It's true that it guarantees all day English and bed and board, but it's not all day *classes*, and most of the English speakers are people travelling around who are not paid a salary, so where does all the money go?!


That article has about as much credibility as those that say "A million British expats are leaving Spain" - it is just advertorial to sell Pueblo Inglés products.

As for SWMBO - Yes she does get a great deal of pleasure out of it. What started as only a few hours a week now requires two teachers for just our small village and that is not counting the private classes given by both SWMBO and the suegra. The teachers of English at the local schools are hopeless having just had the English classes thrust upon them when they are not philologists nor fluent speakers. In fact we do have a number of the teachers' children attending English classes, either private or at the Academy. What is also interesting is there are also a few groups of adults (some of the retired) who are also taking classes.

Continuing from the article - approximately 95 out of every hundred Brits feel uncomfortable even saying just a few words in Spanish, but then that applies to the Dutch and the Germans as well!


----------



## Pesky Wesky

baldilocks said:


> That article has about as much credibility as those that say "A million British expats are leaving Spain" - it is just advertorial to sell Pueblo Inglés products.


Yes, I do agree, although I would say the vast majority of my students feel the same.


----------



## Pesky Wesky

rc1984 said:


> Hello all,
> 
> I have been reading through this thread with great interest and decided to post myself with some of my own personal questions.
> 
> The reason i've read through all this is because i am interested in becoming a teacher of english in spain. Currently, and for the past 5-6 years i have been working in London in a decent, steady job that has enabled me to build up a nice sum of savings. But, i'm a bit tired of the routine and don't see myself in this job or line of work for much longer as it is not something that particularly enthuses me. Teaching english as a foreign language sounds interesting to me as a license to travel and live in a foreign country and as a profession to get oneself out of the 9-5 daily office routine. And well, i figure i only live once and can always go back to the drudgery of the office routine and steady income if this all fails. I do know some Spanish and am currently studying level B1 as per the DELE diploma...i think this is equivalent of GCSE-level although i intend to continue studying...and i do travel to Spain a lot for vacation so to be there long-term I would like to try.
> 
> Having read this thread and others on this forum and elsewhere, I am aware that choosing to take this direction in my career is not exactly the guaranteed path to riches and that living in a foreign country is a much different experience from being there on vacation. The money is not so important though, just enough to get by and pay for the occasional flights back at xmas/easter for example will do. Although any more is welcome of course! This decision is more about a lifestyle choice.
> 
> So, my questions...
> 
> Firstly, i have been looking into how to get qualified to do such a job. Although i am a native English speaker, no way am I trained to be a teacher. I have helped at schools in England before as a classroom assistant but that was about 10 years ago and right now I wouldn't really know much about how to plan a lesson other than basing it on how i've been taught before. So, my intention is to do the intensive month-long CELTA course to begin with and i wondered if any particular centres are better than others? Is a CELTA from one place always equal to another? And are there any CELTA centres that are particularly good in placing people once they have obtained the qualification? Right now I am guessing that this would be the differentiating factor and have been looking at International House, given the wide range of their network. But it might be more convenient for me to study in Nottingham and unfortunately they do not have a centre there.
> 
> Secondly, I have also been looking at the program that the British Council runs in placing English language assistants at schools in Spain but my question here is whether I would really be suitable for that program? It seems like a good way of getting early experience but I am nearly 28 and obviously would be a bit older by the time I started so worried I may be a bit old? Maybe instead it would be better to do the CELTA and then try and find a placement through whichever centre i take the qualification at?
> 
> Anyway, that's about it for now...if you've read this far, thanks for reading and for any comments and advice you can give me, especially if there are some things that i have overlooked


Hi,
There is quite a lot of info about CELTA courses already on here and British Council too. If you go to the page numbers of this thread, just under there it says "search this thread". Using this search facility should giv you some info. You could also try using the general search as well.
If you don't find what you're looking for, or have any other comments, just make another post!


----------



## rc1984

Yep, I have read through this entire thread and elsewhere on the internet a lot over the past week or so and before as this is something that I have contemplated doing for a while. The above is just where I've got to in my thought process and that no-one has shot it down so far is good! Only other additional thought I've been having recently is to actually do the CELTA in my intended country of work, so probably Spain, as that might make it easier getting a job there once the course has been completed.

Will continue to think on it anyway. I don't think I would look to go for a while yet, maybe next year, so I'm just starting to plan things and put them down now. It might be worthwhile waiting as well the way the Spanish economy is right now although it probably will still be in a bad situation for a long time I reckon.


----------



## baldilocks

rc1984 said:


> Yep, I have read through this entire thread and elsewhere on the internet a lot over the past week or so and before as this is something that I have contemplated doing for a while. The above is just where I've got to in my thought process and that no-one has shot it down so far is good! Only other additional thought I've been having recently is to actually do the CELTA in my intended country of work, so probably Spain, as that might make it easier getting a job there once the course has been completed.
> 
> Will continue to think on it anyway. I don't think I would look to go for a while yet, maybe next year, so I'm just starting to plan things and put them down now. It might be worthwhile waiting as well the way the Spanish economy is right now although it probably will still be in a bad situation for a long time I reckon.


At last somebody with some common sense. Take your time, things aren't too good right now so, although they might get worse, they stand a good chance of getting better in the future and if you follow your present course, you'll probably be better equipped to take advantage of any improvement. Moving to another country is much like marriage - move in haste, repent at leisure!


----------



## joshjadavies

Hi,
I'm a 33 year old Canadian living in Vancouver BC. I plan to move to Barcelona in Sept 2012 with my gf who is a UK native. I have a computer engineering background and work at a software company however I'm bored with the daily 9-5. I have saved enough money to live in Spain for a year without work. My plan is to apply for a 1 year student visa and enroll in a spanish school, and study spanish for the year. I've already been taking spanish lessons in Vancouver for over a year.

My primary goal is to study and learn spanish but I'm also interested in teaching english while I'm there, although as I mentioned studying spanish is my primary goal. After reading through this forum it seems the CELTA course is the best way to go.

I would like to enroll in a spanish school and take my CELTA in Barcelona. I see that IH Barcelona offers both of these things. I could study spanish and take the CELTA course at the same location.

Is IH Barcelona highly recommended? Is it a good place to study spanish and take the CELTA course?

Thanks a lot
Josh


----------



## joshjadavies

Also, being a Canadian, even if I get the CELTA certificate, do the teaching schools in Spain often sponsor non EU nationals for work visas? I don't want to waste my time with the course if most of the schools are looking for EU people.

Thanks again.


----------



## jojo

joshjadavies said:


> Also, being a Canadian, even if I get the CELTA certificate, do the teaching schools in Spain often sponsor non EU nationals for work visas? I don't want to waste my time with the course if most of the schools are looking for EU people.
> 
> Thanks again.


 I dont know for sure, but I'm pretty sure that there are more than enough British and English speaking EU nationals who dont need visas to work or sponsor...!!

jo xxx


----------



## joshjadavies

Right, makes sense. Can anyone confirm that IH Barcelona is a good school to study Spanish at?


----------



## jojo

joshjadavies said:


> Right, makes sense. Can anyone confirm that IH Barcelona is a good school to study Spanish at?



I'm from the other end of Spain so I cant comment. I'm sure some of the regulars will be on in the morning and offer you some more sound advise. Its 11.30pm in Spain, so only a few insomniacs on here now lol!!!!

Jo xxxx


----------



## Pesky Wesky

joshjadavies said:


> Also, being a Canadian, even if I get the CELTA certificate, do the teaching schools in Spain often sponsor non EU nationals for work visas? I don't want to waste my time with the course if most of the schools are looking for EU people.
> 
> Thanks again.


There is definitely more interest in EU nationals than non EU. I'm not sure about Canadians, but Americans need to have a job offer from a company that can demonstrate that the job cannot be done by any EU national. This is clearly not the case for English teaching.

IH in Spain has a very good name in general, and good Spanish teachers are hard to come by. That's not to say there aren't other places, but I can't recommend any!
You could do a term there and see if you like it.
Please be aware that Catalan is widely spoken in Barcelona.


----------



## Guest

Pesky Wesky said:


> There is definitely more interest in EU nationals than non EU. I'm not sure about Canadians, but Americans need to have a job offer from a company that can demonstrate that the job cannot be done by any EU national. This is clearly not the case for English teaching.
> 
> IH in Spain has a very good name in general, and good Spanish teachers are hard to come by. That's not to say there aren't other places, but I can't recommend any!
> You could do a term there and see if you like it.
> Please be aware that Catalan is widely spoken in Barcelona.


This would be a clear case that could take advantage of the Civil Partnership register you mentioned last month, especially since OP's OH is a UK citizen. That could give OP a "ticket" to work. Apart from using that method, it's going to be very difficult to work. 

Another idea, depending on OP's age, would be to take advantage of DFAIT's bilateral agreement with Spain. More information can be found here: Working Abroad


----------



## Pesky Wesky

halydia said:


> This would be a clear case that could take advantage of the Civil Partnership register you mentioned last month, especially since OP's OH is a UK citizen. That could give OP a "ticket" to work. Apart from using that method, it's going to be very difficult to work.
> 
> Another idea, depending on OP's age, would be to take advantage of DFAIT's bilateral agreement with Spain. More information can be found here: Working Abroad


You're right. I was going to say that, but I forgot by the time I'd actually written the post.
Here's the thread
http://www.expatforum.com/expats/sp...on-eu-nationals-becoming-residents-spain.html

Night everyone! Will be woken up at 6:00 by OH bashing round getting off to work


----------



## Pesky Wesky

Some ads for English teachers...

Ignore the first 2 ads
Find Schools jobs in Spain | Schools Jobs | Teacher Network

Summer jobs here
Vacancy: 200+ SUMMER VACAN..., 6 Camps in Cadiz ..., Spain - TEFL.com

Most of the jobs here are to start in the new academic year
Vacancies in the database - TEFL.com[cou_id]=196

Ads from a Spanish site
Ofertas de trabajo, Buscar trabajo, Bolsa de trabajo - InfoJobs

From same site, but using English Teacher instead of profesor ingles to search
Ofertas de trabajo, Buscar trabajo, Bolsa de trabajo - InfoJobs


----------



## langage

*Thank you*

Thank you for the useful information.




Pesky Wesky said:


> Some ads for English teachers...
> 
> Ignore the first 2 ads
> Find Schools jobs in Spain | Schools Jobs | Teacher Network
> 
> Summer jobs here
> Vacancy: 200+ SUMMER VACAN..., 6 Camps in Cadiz ..., Spain - TEFL.com
> 
> Most of the jobs here are to start in the new academic year
> Vacancies in the database - TEFL.com[cou_id]=196
> 
> Ads from a Spanish site
> Ofertas de trabajo, Buscar trabajo, Bolsa de trabajo - InfoJobs
> 
> From same site, but using English Teacher instead of profesor ingles to search
> Ofertas de trabajo, Buscar trabajo, Bolsa de trabajo - InfoJobs


----------



## liamandbonnie

Very nice posts and very useful! Will bookmark for later use. Thank you.


----------



## Pesky Wesky

*Shadow a teacher*

Have just seen this. 
In International House in Bristol you can shadow a teacher for 36 pounds a day. Great introduction into the academy teaching world and really useful for those who need more info to decide whether to train or not. This is for Bristol, but perhaps they have it in other IH centres too.
Shadow an English Language Teacher | Find out about life in the classroom


----------



## Pesky Wesky

As an autónoma I sometimes miss contact with other teachers and training days too. I recently found these webinars by Cambridge
All resources | Cambridge English Teacher

And something else I saw the other day was this ad. for Berlitz in Spain. I think they have a method that's based on drilling, but still, it's a job and an experience
The Latest Job Ad

Also jobs in summer camps are being advertised now


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## Pesky Wesky

Another job site that I hadn't seen before
Latest teacher jobs in Spain


----------



## Manin_bcn

Yes, as a Cambridge Uni (CELTA) teacher ... CELTA is not only _the_ minimum teaching qualification but it also serves as an internationally recognised teaching qualification (for English as a second language). However, many employers also ask for a Degree in another subject as well.

If I am permitted to, I am giving the link to my first ever blog I wrote last week. I think it serves as a useful guide for would be English teachers. Moderators, can I post this?

English language: the lingua Franca? | All Spain


----------



## Pesky Wesky

Manin_bcn said:


> Yes, as a Cambridge Uni (CELTA) teacher ... CELTA is not only _the_ minimum teaching qualification but it also serves as an internationally recognised teaching qualification (for English as a second language). However, many employers also ask for a Degree in another subject as well.
> 
> If I am permitted to, I am giving the link to my first ever blog I wrote last week. I think it serves as a useful guide for would be English teachers. Moderators, can I post this?
> 
> English language: the lingua Franca? | All Spain


In reply to your blog

Agree with a lot of what you say here and would like to add a bit of info about native English speakers working in state schools here in Spain
First there are now quite a number of “bilingual” schools, both primary and secondary. As usual, this is not a nationally devised programme so standards and methods vary across the regions of the country.
There are teaching assistants (not qualified teachers) in English language classes, and now there are UK qualified teachers giving classes in English of Sciences, PE and maybe other things.
As you know, there is a huge unemployment problem in Spain at the moment with the latest figures showing 5 million unemployed which makes it up to 34% in some areas in the south of Spain. Of course, there a good number of teachers among those figures. Those teachers who are working have seen their salaries frozen and cut on several occasions, have bigger classes and less facilities. So we can asume that they are not a very happy collective.
To become a teacher in the state system in Spain you need to pass a public exam called an oposición. You are awarded a place according to a) how many are offered (always well below the amont that are actually free) b) on the points you get on the exam. Depending on the subject you teach it can take you years to get a place at a school, decades even
So, a Spanish teacher could turn round to find many qualified colleagues in the unemployment line and find that s/he has a native English speaker, (someone who quite possibly knows no Spanish whatsoever and so can’t take part in staff meetings, extra curricular activities, parent meetings…) doing the job that qualified Spanish people can do. It doesn’t make for a happy staff room.
It’s true that many Spanish English teachers don’t make the grade, but surely the government should be bringing up the standard of its teaching population before giving out contracts abroad.


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## xabiaxica

Manin_bcn said:


> Yes, as a Cambridge Uni (CELTA) teacher ... CELTA is not only _the_ minimum teaching qualification but it also serves as an internationally recognised teaching qualification (for English as a second language). However, many employers also ask for a Degree in another subject as well.
> 
> If I am permitted to, I am giving the link to my first ever blog I wrote last week. I think it serves as a useful guide for would be English teachers. Moderators, can I post this?
> 
> English language: the lingua Franca? | All Spain


no.... you're not really allowed to post that 

you can add it as a link in your signature though, so please do & I can then remove it from the post


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## baldilocks

Manin_bcn said:


> Yes, as a Cambridge Uni (CELTA) teacher ... CELTA is not only _the_ minimum teaching qualification but it also serves as an internationally recognised teaching qualification (for English as a second language). However, many employers also ask for a Degree in another subject as well.
> 
> If I am permitted to, I am giving the link to my first ever blog I wrote last week. I think it serves as a useful guide for would be English teachers. Moderators, can I post this?
> 
> English language: the lingua Franca? | All Spain


Apart from the fact that I find it difficult to read grey on black, I would comment on one part:



> "This begs the question that if society were to agree that the English language should be the “lingua Franca” and, given that most international business is conducted in English, then why is English not taught more in Spanish public schools? Why won´t the Spanish government take a managed risk (not that I see it as a risk) and employ native English teachers to teach ……. the lingua Franca?"


Maybe because there are more people in the world with Spanish as their first language than English, they think there are better employment prospects in the Spanish-speaking areas. The "English" speaking areas are pretty well supplied with Brits, Americans, Anzacs, Africans, Indians and Pakistanis all with varying qualities of English (some of it quite unintelligible). The teacher selection process in Spain doesn't seem to work on aptitudes to fill a particular post but more on the basis of "you're a teacher, therefore you can teach whatever subject we allocate to you"


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## xabiaxica

*10 things the Spanish hate about learning English*

Ten things Spaniards hate about the English language The Local


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## baldilocks

xabiachica said:


> Ten things Spaniards hate about the English language The Local


There are lots of other very interesting "Ten things...." on that website.


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## Pesky Wesky

Changes that I'm noticing teaching in Madrid...
In companies more companies are going through training companies who will employ the teachers for a course here and a course there. It may be for the whole year, but it's more likely to be an academic year. Also I'm seeing more short term courses, for 3 months or so. 
There are less company classes about and part of the reason apart from the obvious tightening of belts, is that they are getting government subsidised courses (Tripartita) and not contacting teachers directly themselves. 
Both of the above changes mean that the teacher will get paid less as you have to go through a third party, which leads me to the third point - prices are going down. Now, there'll always be somebody who's making a fortune (I met someone earlier on in the year who was charging 50euros an hour in a company) but that's not the norm.
The number of children's classes is increasing and they are in 2 groups - completely exam orientated, or the parents who realise there's more to learning a language than preparing an exam and who want their children to be able to communicate with native speakers. A lot of classes for children are advertised as being specifically for women and many ask for teachers who have a high level of English ie they are looking for Spanish teachers who teach English.
Lastly there's been a huge increase in companies that arrange private classes in people's homes like for example Acadomia. From what I've seen they are badly paid.
What's it like where you are?


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## Claire la richarde

I thought someone might be interested in an advert for a job in Seville

Subtitler - Native English based in Seville
Closing Date: 24 September 2014 
Location: Spain / Seville 

Job advert, job description and application form via the link below
Careers | Red Bee Media 

Disclaimer: I'm not connected with Red Bee, but I used to be involved in this field and still try to keep up with the news, so spotted this advert.


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## 90199

*Teacher needed*

English teacher experienced in preparing students for exams is needed urgently in Las Palmas (Guanarteme area). Minimum 8 hours work per week, starting 1st October, for the Academía de Estudios Guanarteme. The teacher would prepare adult and young students for the Trinity exams equivalent to KET, PET and First Certificate and should have relevant experience. Please contact academy owner Victoria Romero /snip/ as soon as possible.

I thought this might be of interest, the Location is Gran Canaria


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## baldilocks

Hi Hepa - have sent you a PM


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## ddfred

Hello everyone!
I am currently looking at ways to get into teaching English in Spain and it would be of great help if someone could tell me are the local schools only accepting teachers with CELTA or is Trinity TESOL also considered a valid qualification? TESOL is cheaper where I currently live, but most job ads I see only mention CELTA...
Thanks in advance!


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## Pesky Wesky

ddfred said:


> Hello everyone!
> I am currently looking at ways to get into teaching English in Spain and it would be of great help if someone could tell me are the local schools only accepting teachers with CELTA or is Trinity TESOL also considered a valid qualification? TESOL is cheaper where I currently live, but most job ads I see only mention CELTA...
> Thanks in advance!


What you are seeing reflects the current situation: that CELTA is much more widely known here and is what schools will normally ask for. However, I would apply to any job that you're interested in and just point out in your covering letter/? email that instead of a CELTA qualification you have a TESOL and that also qualifies you to do the job you're applying for.
However, if you're looking at the best way to get into good teaching circles in Spain and you're not yet qualified I'd advise taking the CELTA


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## ddfred

Thanks a lot for replying! I guessed that much...

Could you maybe point out some advantages of CELTA? From the websites I've checked, they seem to offer pretty much the same program, but I keep getting advice to do CELTA instead of TESOL.


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## xicoalc

ddfred said:


> Thanks a lot for replying! I guessed that much...
> 
> Could you maybe point out some advantages of CELTA? From the websites I've checked, they seem to offer pretty much the same program, but I keep getting advice to do CELTA instead of TESOL.


I did TSEOL/TEFLA when I first came to Spain as a backup incase I couldn't find work and when I did use it I found that my qualifications were widely accepted. CELTA is considered better because I believe its in house and highly regulated where as TESOL is available through many sources including as I did online BUT most academies are happy with either!


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## Pesky Wesky

ddfred said:


> Thanks a lot for replying! I guessed that much...
> 
> Could you maybe point out some advantages of CELTA? From the websites I've checked, they seem to offer pretty much the same program, but I keep getting advice to do CELTA instead of TESOL.


Well, TESOL is English for speakers of other languages and is generally taught in countries where English is spoken, so a lot of courses focus on "survival English" filling in forms, going to the chemists, making a phone call...
EFL is usually taught in non English speaking countries, like Spain! Here though most courses also start with very practical English like the areas named above.
Tesol is very popular in the USA and CELTA or TEFL is more european.
Perhaps there's more to it than that, but that's what I know about it


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## Elyles

Pesky Wesky said:


> Well, TESOL is English for speakers of other languages and is generally taught in countries where English is spoken, so a lot of courses focus on "survival English" filling in forms, going to the chemists, making a phone call... EFL is usually taught in non English speaking countries, like Spain! Here though most courses also start with very practical English like the areas named above. Tesol is very popular in the USA and CELTA or TEFL is more european. Perhaps there's more to it than that, but that's what I know about it


Sorry but ESL is very entrenched in the US and is the most common way the Mexicans study there. I taught it there before I left. TEFL and TESL is also big there


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## Pesky Wesky

Elyles said:


> Sorry but ESL is very entrenched in the US and is the most common way the Mexicans study there. I taught it there before I left. TEFL and TESL is also big there


No need for a sorry, you haven't refuted anything I said. It's just that the OP didn't ask about ESL.
Yes ESL is the biggest area of English language teaching in the US (English as a second language)
And there is ESOL (English for speakers of other languages)
And there is also EFL which is more common in Europe.(English as a foreign language)
To be honest, I think the basic content is the same, but I much prefer the materials developed in Europe by Oxford, Onestop, Collins, Cambridge, BBC
etc, but then again I'm British


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## Calas felices

Now we know why the Americans mangle their English!!


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## Elyles

Pesky Wesky said:


> No need for a sorry, you haven't refuted anything I said. It's just that the OP didn't ask about ESL. Yes ESL is the biggest area of English language teaching in the US (English as a second language) And there is ESOL (English for speakers of other languages) And there is also EFL which is more common in Europe.(English as a foreign language) To be honest, I think the basic content is the same, but I much prefer the materials developed in Europe by Oxford, Onestop, Collins, Cambridge, BBC etc, but then again I'm British


I prefer the English teaching style myself but some word uses are slightly difficult to grasp for me


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## Elyles

Calas felices said:


> Now we know why the Americans mangle their English!!


 I was in the Scottish isles a couple of years back and swear that a few people from there were not speaking English.


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## baldilocks

Elyles said:


> I was in the Scottish isles a couple of years back and swear that a few people from there were not speaking English.


Did ye nae ken fit yon loons'n quines were saein?


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## Calas felices

Ah now that would be Doric!


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## baldilocks

Elyles said:


> I was in the Scottish isles a couple of years back and swear that a few people from there were not speaking English.


Actually if you were in the Outer Hebrides, it was probably Gaelic but, normally if there are non-Gaelic speakers present, they will switch to English unless, of course, you upset them. The Welsh are worse, especially in the North - while normally they will quite happily chat away in English, as soon as a person, they perceive to be English appears they switch to Welsh. Greet them in Welsh so that they think you understand and they will go back to English - you have to play them at their own game!


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## ddfred

Thanks for the reply


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