# Newbie!!



## wonfor (Oct 25, 2012)

Good evening everyone. First time on the Spain expat forum this evening so please be gentle with me!

My wife and I (like a lot of people) are fed up with the UK and everything it stands for and have started to consider a new life elsewhere. We are considering Spain and would like to see what peoples opinions are on our thoughts.

We have three children (ages 17,13 and 3). The eldest has another year at college. The middle child is heading towards his GCSE's and the youngest doesn't start school for a couple of years. I would be looking to put the 13 year old into International school to finish his GCSE's whilst enrolling "little one" into a Spanish school to adapt to "Spanish life"Our idea was to let the 17 year old finish college (June 2014) and we were thinking of coming out in September 2014 for the start of the new school year.

Initially, we would rent somewhere for a year or two to see if its the life we want. If not, we have lost nothing and keep our uk property.

If we decide that Spain is the life for us, we would sell our home to finance the purchase of three apartments in London. In todays rental market, this would give us an income of around £2600 per month. Would this be a decent amount to live on in Spain? (not knowing what the cost of living is like there). We also both earn good income from our current jobs. My wife earns a decent wage in finance for 2 days a week (Which I'm sure she'd be happy to commute to) and I own my own loft conversion business. If my wife stays in Spain, I could work in the uk for 7 or 8 weeks completing a loft before returning home for a few months break.

So we have a fair few options. We are not one of these "TV" families that decide to upsticks and move on a whim. We do not intend to work in Spain or sell up lock stock and move there without having tested the water.

Our life at home is a fairly simple one, but one we feel could be made better by being in another country. We love the sea. We love good food. We love to eat al fresco. I love to cook and BBQ. We love to walk along the beach. We love to drink outside into the late evening. We love to swim in the pool. All of these things can be done in the uk but literally for a few weeks per year.

Any thoughts????

Thanks all for taking the time to read (and answer if any)


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## bob_bob (Jan 5, 2011)

What will your children do when they leave School? Can you employ them in the UK? Will your oldest come to Spain to work because youth unemployment is SKY high, much much much higher than the UK and with no language skills the likelihood of working in Spain is slim to non existent in reality.

Sit down and do your sums, £2600 is OK but your down to £2000 after School fees, down to maybe £1200 after rent and utilities/broadband etc, so can all five of you feed/entertain/run a vehicle/update home/pay for your flights on £1200?

Good luck with your plans but make sure your planning fits reality.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

My first question like bob bob would be about the children. What will the now 17 and 13 year old do when they leave school. ATM unemploment for young Spaniards is at over 50%! I hope this will improve as from now as the mother of an 18 year old at university, but full employment of this age group seems unlikely within the next few years.
Also, I _think_ bob bobs estimates may be a little conservative because even if the three year old goes to state school, you have to buy books and materials and trips which will come to anything between 200 - 400€ a term...


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

wonfor said:


> Good evening everyone. First time on the Spain expat forum this evening so please be gentle with me!
> 
> My wife and I (like a lot of people) are fed up with the UK and everything it stands for and have started to consider a new life elsewhere. We are considering Spain and would like to see what peoples opinions are on our thoughts.
> 
> ...


:welcome:

yes on paper that could work, although school fees will knock quite a hole in that budget - maybe 500€ a month

my only concern, like the others, would be the children

I have two daughters of 13 & 17 & I worry about their future - I'm sure all parents do, regardless of where they live & regardless of the state of the economy

we've been here getting on for 10 years now - they are totally bi-lingual - they speak Spanish more hours a day than they do English & mainly have Spanish friends - they are pretty much Spanish in their attitudes & lifestyle

that's a massive advantage here - the languages would give them a bit of an edge in the job market.......... if there was one 

the older one is heading to uni soonish - she'll do uni here, but I'm resigned to the fact that she will almost certainly have to leave Spain to find work as do so very many Spanish graduates - unless they want to wait at tables  the younger one - I don't know yet - I hope things improve before it becomes an issue


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

xabiachica said:


> *the older one is heading to uni soonish - she'll do uni here,* but I'm resigned to the fact that she will almost certainly have to leave Spain to find work as do so very many Spanish graduates - unless they want to wait at tables  the younger one - I don't know yet - I hope things improve before it becomes an issue


Jeez, unbelievable.
How time passes ....... I remember her from when we moved here 

If she's still also learning Mandarin I doubt very much if she will have trouble finding work, as she seems so talented in languages, which I guess in a great part is down to you and John


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## wonfor (Oct 25, 2012)

Thanks for the replies. I understand your concerns but the children are free to do as they please. The idea was that we spent quality time as a family in Spain for the first few years. The eldest is still very immature in that he hasn't a clue what he wants to do in life. We've tried for years to point him in the right direction but all he wants to do is sit in front of a computer screen and play online games (His college course is computer gaming design) The middle one is a free spirit and although he loves his computer games too, he loves all things outdoors. They both love the sea. If they both decide that Spain is not for them then they both have bases back in the uk and can come and go as they please. We are both in our early 40's and have worked incredibly hard to get where we are and now we want to escape the rat race and enjoy some quality time. We just dont want to leave it until we are retired. 

The £2600 sum is the worst case scenario and is only if we decided not to work. This will not be the case though as my wife has an extremely safe job and I have plenty of work. We would have to choose who comes back but with my business the way it is I'd be more inclined to come back and work and yes, I could employ my middle son to work with me (I dont think my eldest has the desire to do manual work).

We have no mortgage in the uk. My wife works 2 days and I only work for 5 months of the year (my choice). Its just the quality of life that we want. I could come back to the uk twice a year for 8 weeks a time and this would net me another £30000. So I don't think money will be an issue.

I want to be able to get up in the morning and take the children to school. I'd like to be able to have breakfast with my wife on the patio. Read the papers. Take a swim and maybe play a round of golf. Maybe go to the beach for a walk with my wife and the dog. Tend to the garden. I enjoy cooking and we all love Spanish food. I'd spend a couple of hours a day preparing the evening meals. Collect the children. Spend some time with them in the pool or at the beach. Eat our meal. This is pretty much our life in the uk but without the fabulous beaches and sunshine its just not the same. Anything else on top i.e. meeting up with other expats and joining clubs, going out for meals etc would be a bonus. The youngest is only 3 and has her whole life ahead of her so she will adapt and become Spanish culturally. The boys wont be at home forever and if they ever decide they want to return to the UK they have a number of options. We want them to have the life and opportunities that we never had. We holiday twice a year in Spain or the Canaries and the children have always asked if we could live somewhere like that. If they leave school/college and decide they want to be beach bums for a few years before getting all sensible and going off to do their own thing then so be it. Its nice to be able to give them the choice.

Basically, we would lead pretty much the same life as we do in the uk but in better circumstances.


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## wonfor (Oct 25, 2012)

I've also told the boys that whatever they do or want to do workwise, they should either get themselves a trade or HGV licence as well. If they decided they want to work in the uk then they can work for temping agencies and come and go as they please. That way, they are not bound by full time jobs and can work for a while, then come home to Spain for a break.


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## kalohi (May 6, 2012)

You do realize that even in southern Spain for more than half of the year it is not warm enough to use a pool or sit outside for breakfast. 

Sitting here in my living room right now I am wearing a polar fleece jacket. 

As long as you're aware of the reality of the situation...

I do agree that beach walking is lovely all year round.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Stravinsky said:


> Jeez, unbelievable.
> How time passes ....... I remember her from when we moved here
> 
> If she's still also learning Mandarin I doubt very much if she will have trouble finding work, as she seems so talented in languages, which I guess in a great part is down to *you and John*


lol - he never did learn Spanish!!

she's not doing Mandarin, though it's on her wish list....

She's currently doing Latin, German, English, Spanish & Valenciano

next year she picks up Greek as well, and will be spending 3 months in Norway on an educational exchange - the studies will be in English, but I dare say she'll pick up some Norwegian......

time really does fly though, doesn't it 

she'll do well whatever she decides to do :fingerscrossed: 

she's being 'actively guided' towards interpreting as a profession - our town mayor among others is 'encouraging' her - she has interpreted for him more than once at public events, the head of culture & education, the head teacher at school, the head of the fisherman's association, the head priest in the church & the head archaeologist of the town - & also the Spanish vice consul to Latvia 


in a couple of weeks she's going to Latvia for 2 weeks - while there she'll be interviewed on TV - in English thankfully, but she's trying to learn a bit of Latvian as well


I want her life............


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## sim4maz (Jan 15, 2013)

wonfor said:


> Good evening everyone. First time on the Spain expat forum this evening so please be gentle with me!
> 
> My wife and I (like a lot of people) are fed up with the UK and everything it stands for and have started to consider a new life elsewhere. We are considering Spain and would like to see what peoples opinions are on our thoughts.
> 
> ...


Hi,
We are in a similar mindset to you and actually off tomorrow for an exploration trip for a week. We are going to look at Almunecar International School and a few houses that match the kind of thing we could rent to give us an idea. Our eldest is 10 so about to go into secondary school hence our plan would be to move by Sept this year. Our other 2 are younger (6 and 3). Like you, fed up with the drudge of the UK and fancy an adventure abroad. Again income from UK business so won't be relying on Spanish employment etc - all about a change of lifestyle for us.
I'll let you know how we get on in case it helps you at all!
Simon


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## wonfor (Oct 25, 2012)

Really? Half the year? I was speaking to a lady that we rent from and she is in Alicante. They were eating outside on boxing day. Everyone has different opinions on "warm". I have spent December in Cyprus and walked around the whole holiday in shorts and t shirt in 16 degrees. I certainly couldn't do that in the uk.


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## wonfor (Oct 25, 2012)

Thanks for that Simon. Wish you lots of luck! Its nice to hear there are others in our predicament. Please do keep us posted. A lot of people go through life working hard and not enjoying life. Thats what we seem to have done for the past 20 years and its about time we enjoyed life a little more. You're exactly right. Its about lifestyle change and enjoying some sunshine and outdoor living. I dont know about you but whenever you seem to post on a forum, it all seems to be doom and gloom. Your life is what you make of it and if like us you have the opportunity to carry on earning in the uk but make a better life for yourselves elsewhere then I say "GO FOR IT!". Whats the worst that can happen? You decide its not for you and go back home to your already established business. I'm one of these people that doesn't want to look back and say "I wish I'd done that"


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

wonfor said:


> Really? Half the year? I was speaking to a lady that we rent from and she is in Alicante. They were eating outside on boxing day. Everyone has different opinions on "warm". I have spent December in Cyprus and walked around the whole holiday in shorts and t shirt in 16 degrees. I certainly couldn't do that in the uk.


it's 16º here today - lovely in the sun but out of it it's boots & coat weather!!


& I'm in my office atm - the sun is the other side of the building - I'm seriously considering putting a heater on before my next student arrives to take the chill off the room!!



as for the pool - my teenagers might get in towards the end of May - but the water won't be warm enough for me until well into June!


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## bob_bob (Jan 5, 2011)

Six months ago the OP was moving to New Zealand and at a guess that would be a better option in many ways than moving to Spain I'd have thought?


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## wonfor (Oct 25, 2012)

The other obvious option is to keep our base here in the uk and buy a holiday home in Spain. With us both not having full time jobs, we could make use of it a lot more than perhaps a family that are working full time. Just not sure whether its the right time yet to buy. Prices are very good but are they still going to drop? It seems that Spain are far from out of the woods so who knows. The children break up every 6 weeks so we could be out there quite a few times a year. God knows I'm spending enough on just 2 holidays each year at the moment!


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## Tilley (Jun 10, 2012)

wonfor said:


> The other obvious option is to keep our base here in the uk and buy a holiday home in Spain. With us both not having full time jobs, we could make use of it a lot more than perhaps a family that are working full time. Just not sure whether its the right time yet to buy. Prices are very good but are they still going to drop? It seems that Spain are far from out of the woods so who knows. The children break up every 6 weeks so we could be out there quite a few times a year. God knows I'm spending enough on just 2 holidays each year at the moment!


But would not that then impinge on your ability to purchase 3 apartments in London and rent them out for £2,400 a months income as you would be retaining your UK home and purchasing a holiday home hence no £2,400 which I thought was the main way you were going to fund the lifestyle in Spain ?

If you only work for 5 months of the year in the UK by choice to obtain £30,000 a year, could you not plan around much longer holidays such as two or three months at a time as you have another 7 months a year to play with, as you say that you are spending enough of two holidays a year at the moment. Going on 2 x two week holidays is never a vey cost effective way of doing things if you really want to make a commitment to a Country you would be better off going for longer term lets to get a feel for a place, plus you could try different areas.


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## wonfor (Oct 25, 2012)

Tilley said:


> But would not that then impinge on your ability to purchase 3 apartments in London and rent them out for £2,400 a months income as you would be retaining your UK home and purchasing a holiday home hence no £2,400 which I thought was the main way you were going to fund the lifestyle in Spain ?
> 
> If you only work for 5 months of the year in the UK by choice to obtain £30,000 a year, could you not plan around much longer holidays such as two or three months at a time as you have another 7 months a year to play with, as you say that you are spending enough of two holidays a year at the moment. Going on 2 x two week holidays is never a vey cost effective way of doing things if you really want to make a commitment to a Country you would be better off going for longer term lets to get a feel for a place, plus you could try different areas.


Not really. I have a little one of 3 years of age that has to be in school. She can't just take "two or three months" out at a time. But it would be possible to go to the holiday home every 6 weeks (when schools break up). Also, a 6 week stay in the summer. The £2500 income was only if we weren't working and was a long term idea if we'd decided Spain was for us. Our property would fund the purchase of 3 flats for that income. If we stay here then we keep our London home, keep our monthly income (no mortgage) and purchase a holiday home that we can fly to every 6 weeks. We then get the best of both worlds. It would certainly make living in the UK more bearable.


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## Tilley (Jun 10, 2012)

wonfor said:


> Not really. I have a little one of 3 years of age that has to be in school. She can't just take "two or three months" out at a time. But it would be possible to go to the holiday home every 6 weeks (when schools break up). Also, a 6 week stay in the summer. The £2500 income was only if we weren't working and was a long term idea if we'd decided Spain was for us. Our property would fund the purchase of 3 flats for that income. If we stay here then we keep our London home, keep our monthly income (no mortgage) and purchase a holiday home that we can fly to every 6 weeks. We then get the best of both worlds. It would certainly make living in the UK more bearable.


Ah yes I see it is difficult when you take into account the little one. Maybe the six week plan is the better option then. Also i think if you are planning on renting out three properties you might need a letting agent and they charge about 10 % but at the end of the day it is a heck of a lot of work if you do it yourself and they are more likely to provide a steady and reliable stream of tenants.


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## wonfor (Oct 25, 2012)

We also have property in south west France that is on the market but I have absolutely no hopes of that selling in the very near future. This was bought 8 years ago and is now valued at around €20000 less than we paid for it. If it sold then this would be a deposit towards our Spanish property.


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## wonfor (Oct 25, 2012)

Things change and circumstances change. You plan things in life but you don't know whats around the corner. The original plan was to wait until the boys had finished education and spend 6 months in France and 6 months in the UK (the horrible months). But then my wife very unexpectedly fell pregnant (I've no idea how!!!) and the pregnancy put a rather large spanner in the works. So we are now trying to work out another plan that involves the extra member of the family.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

wonfor said:


> Really? Half the year? I was speaking to a lady that we rent from and she is in Alicante. They were eating outside on boxing day. Everyone has different opinions on "warm". I have spent December in Cyprus and walked around the whole holiday in shorts and t shirt in 16 degrees. I certainly couldn't do that in the uk.


We flit back and forth from the UK to Nerja - we're in Nerja at the moment, we arrived last Wednesday and it rained and was cold until Saturday. The houses here have no damp course and our little apartment stinks of damp, as do our clothes. My husband uses the hair dryer to dry the bed before he'll get into it. In the main, the properties are mostly damp in the winter and almost impossible to heat - rant on that subject over!

Since Sunday, its been lovely during the day and if you can get out of the cold breeze its tee shirt and shorts weather - in fact I got burnt today. We're now back in our very cold apartment, I have jeans, boots, a jumper and a cardigan on and the place still smells damp. OH wants to put the heating on!!!

The UK in the winter is infinitely better - central heating, carpets, insulation.... When we lived in Spain that was the one thing I dreamt of lol!!! The weather may not be so good, but its constant and planned for. Spain is extreme and geared for the heat of the summer!

Jo xxx


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Life in Spain is no different from life in the UK except that the sun shines more.
Spending holidays in a country no way prepares you for living there permanently. 
If you are financially secure then there's no reason why you shouldn't give it a go but bear in mind that even in London rents fluctuate.
£2600 isn't a huge sum for a family of your size to live on = we need that plus for two when taking into account rent of a large house, utilities, food and the other things you need such as fuel, insurances, repairs and so on but it's doable.
As for 'doom and gloom'...yes, sadly that's how it is for the almost six million unemployed here and for the many British immigrants wanting to go back to the UK but who are trapped by negative equity.
I'd advise renting for a trial period. Life in Spain is indeed enjoyable if you have no money worries.


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## welshduo (Aug 26, 2012)

We moved here last October and I am so glad I hadn't read this before we came. We have not found it anything like this, our house is lovely and warm and it is quite big. The weather for most of the winter has been fab, our grandchildren were all in the sea at New Year and have said without that visit here the winter in the UK would have been unbearable. We have no regrets, maybe you should look at installing central heating as I am sure you have it in the UK!


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

welshduo said:


> We moved here last October and I am so glad I hadn't read this before we came. We have not found it anything like this, our house is lovely and warm and it is quite big. The weather for most of the winter has been fab, our grandchildren were all in the sea at New Year and have said without that visit here the winter in the UK would have been unbearable. We have no regrets, maybe you should look at installing central heating as I am sure you have it in the UK!


Central heating is a rarity in Spain, we rent anyway and over the last few years we've rented several houses in several places and its always the same in the winter!

Jo xxx


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## wonfor (Oct 25, 2012)

welshduo said:


> We moved here last October and I am so glad I hadn't read this before we came. We have not found it anything like this, our house is lovely and warm and it is quite big. The weather for most of the winter has been fab, our grandchildren were all in the sea at New Year and have said without that visit here the winter in the UK would have been unbearable. We have no regrets, maybe you should look at installing central heating as I am sure you have it in the UK!


You see! Differences of opinion. It all depends what you want out of life. Wherever I go, I have no intention of working so while I sympathise with the millions that are suffering in Spain, its not something I ever even considered (working abroad). 

A house with central heating can always be turned on prior to your arrival. There are many people that supply keyholder services to do these kind of things. It could be switched on a week before you arrive to dry the property out. THERES ALWAYS A SOLUTION!!

Whereabouts are you Welshduo? Sounds like you made the right move!


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

welshduo said:


> We moved here last October and I am so glad I hadn't read this before we came. We have not found it anything like this, our house is lovely and warm and it is quite big. The weather for most of the winter has been fab, our grandchildren were all in the sea at New Year and have said without that visit here the winter in the UK would have been unbearable. We have no regrets, maybe you should look at installing central heating as I am sure you have it in the UK!


I'm guessing that, like us, you weren't looking for work.

Work and an adequate income is what prevents the Spanish dream from turning into the Spanish nightmare.


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## wonfor (Oct 25, 2012)

mrypg9 said:


> i'm guessing that, like us, you weren't looking for work.
> 
> Work and an adequate income is what prevents the spanish dream from turning into the spanish nightmare.


precisely!!


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

wonfor said:


> A house with central heating can always be turned on prior to your arrival. There are many people that supply keyholder services to do these kind of things. It could be switched on a week before you arrive to dry the property out. THERES ALWAYS A SOLUTION!!


 Ah, we didnt think of that lol!!! Seriously, with no mains gas and few oil fired heating systems around, central heating is quite a rarity in Spain - I think that xabiachica, my co mod has it???? Its mostly air con units that also heat and those arent something you'd put on for a week before you arrive, unless you're a lottery winner!!
Heres a previous thread about heating and the issues etc http://www.expatforum.com/expats/spain-expat-forum-expats-living-spain/145703-heating.html

Jo xxx


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

wonfor said:


> Really? Half the year? I was speaking to a lady that we rent from and she is in Alicante. They were eating outside on boxing day. Everyone has different opinions on "warm". I have spent December in Cyprus and walked around the whole holiday in shorts and t shirt in 16 degrees.* I certainly couldn't do that in the uk*.


Personally, I wouldn't do it Spain either!16º is not shorts weather.
In a later post you say something about differing opinions about what constitutes "cold", which of course is true. However, it's good to remember that there are different kinds of hot and cold too. Humid hot is completely different from dry hot. I live in the Comunidad de Madrid and feel quite comfortable at 35º. 40º is when it might take its toll. Madrid is extremely dry. 35º in Valencia, Tarragona or Nerja is a killer for me because it's so humid. Same with the cold. If it's below freezing, which it quite often is (yesterday morning for example), but it's not windy, no problem, but with the wind coming off the mountains that quite possibly have snow on them it's a different thing altogether. Also height has to be factored in. It can be over 40 degrees here quite regularly, but the temp goes down at night 9 times out of 10 which means you can sleep, whereas the people in the city have great problems 'cos the roads and streets keep the heat in. We are at 880m.
Central heating does very much exist in Spain, but seems that it's in short supply in the south. We have had entire threads about the cold in houses in the south so it's not just one or two people winging - it sometimes gets cold down there.
If anyone buys a house you could consider putting in central heating, but I would first do a good insulation job and that would probably cut the problem by more than half for both the summer and the winter. We did some work on the house about 3 years ago and what a difference! That included putting in shredded paper wall insulation, changing and redistributing radiators, and replacing windows. The original tiled floor had already been replaced by cork.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

jojo said:


> Ah, we didnt think of that lol!!! Seriously, with no mains gas and few oil fired heating systems around, central heating is quite a rarity in Spain - I think that xabiachica, my co mod has it???? Its mostly air con units that also heat and those arent something you'd put on for a week before you arrive, unless you're a lottery winner!!
> Heres a previous thread about heating and the issues etc http://www.expatforum.com/expats/spain-expat-forum-expats-living-spain/145703-heating.html
> 
> Jo xxx


we do - we have underfloor central heating - neither I nor my neighbours can actually afford to run it unless temperatures drop seriously low for an extended period!!

my gas & electricity bills together for the coldest month this winter were nearly 300€.... off went the heating & back on with the snuggies....


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

wonfor said:


> You see! Differences of opinion. It all depends what you want out of life. Wherever I go, I have no intention of working so while I sympathise with the millions that are suffering in Spain, its not something I ever even considered (working abroad).
> 
> A house with central heating can always be turned on prior to your arrival. There are many people that supply keyholder services to do these kind of things. It could be switched on a week before you arrive to dry the property out. THERES ALWAYS A SOLUTION!!
> 
> Whereabouts are you Welshduo? Sounds like you made the right move!


don't forget it's their first winter..............

after a few years it starts to feel cold at 20º in the sun...........honestly

when we first came here we thought it hilarious that the Spanish were in their boots & coats in October when we were in t-shirts - a few years down the line we were the same - layered up - taking the layers off to sit in the sun & out of the wind - but on again as soon as the sun dropped


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## Tilley (Jun 10, 2012)

xabiachica said:


> don't forget it's their first winter..............
> 
> after a few years it starts to feel cold at 20º in the sun...........honestly
> 
> when we first came here we thought it hilarious that the Spanish were in their boots & coats in October when we were in t-shirts - a few years down the line we were the same - layered up - taking the layers off to sit in the sun & out of the wind - but on again as soon as the sun dropped


This is so true, I go various places in Egypt a fair bit, which has more even temperatures than Spain and January to early March you see lots of Egyptians in thick jeans and ski type jackets all muffled up like they are in Outer Siberia when tourists have turned up in somewhat inappropriate summer garb, it's quite amusing really.


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## welshduo (Aug 26, 2012)

Actually it is not our first winter we rented here last winter to do all our research!! All I said was that you would not be uncomfortable in your home in the UK, whatever resources were available you would utilise to make your house a home.


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## wonfor (Oct 25, 2012)

My point exactly. Welshduo seem to be the only ones with positive feedback. It's as though people are trying to put me off. There must be a reason so many Brits have made Spain their home. As far as damp in the winter is concerned, you just deal with it. Or adapt yr property. Log burners are fantastic. Let's face it, the British are very big on caravanning. You don't get much more damp than cold wet Britain in the winter and yet year after year people trudge on down to their very damp very smelly caravans that take a couple of days to air. Someone mentioned earlier that their husband dries the bed with a hairdryer before getting into it. That doesn't stop them using it though does it. You can't even compare Spain to Britain in that way surely.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

wonfor said:


> Thanks for the replies. I understand your concerns but the children are free to do as they please. The idea was that we spent quality time as a family in Spain for the first few years. The eldest is still very immature in that he hasn't a clue what he wants to do in life. We've tried for years to point him in the right direction but all he wants to do is sit in front of a computer screen and play online games (His college course is computer gaming design) The middle one is a free spirit and although he loves his computer games too, he loves all things outdoors. They both love the sea. If they both decide that Spain is not for them then they both have bases back in the uk and can come and go as they please. We are both in our early 40's and have worked incredibly hard to get where we are and now we want to escape the rat race and enjoy some quality time. We just dont want to leave it until we are retired.
> 
> The £2600 sum is the worst case scenario and is only if we decided not to work. This will not be the case though as my wife has an extremely safe job and I have plenty of work. We would have to choose who comes back but with my business the way it is I'd be more inclined to come back and work and yes, I could employ my middle son to work with me (I dont think my eldest has the desire to do manual work).
> 
> ...





wonfor said:


> My point exactly. Welshduo seem to be the only ones with positive feedback. It's as though people are trying to put me off. There must be a reason so many Brits have made Spain their home. As far as damp in the winter is concerned, you just deal with it. Or adapt yr property. Log burners are fantastic. Let's face it, the British are very big on caravanning. You don't get much more damp than cold wet Britain in the winter and yet year after year people trudge on down to their very damp very smelly caravans that take a couple of days to air. Someone mentioned earlier that their husband dries the bed with a hairdryer before getting into it. That doesn't stop them using it though does it. You can't even compare Spain to Britain in that way surely.


To be fair, you asked us for our thoughts and we have shared them with you. There have been concerns about the children, the money that you have to live on and seems to have focused in the last few posts on the weather.
I can see that the weather seems trivial to you, and it may well be, but I think the posters were trying to make you aware that the weather is not always good and the houses are not always well prepared for that. 
I'm kind of surprised by some of your comments, but I'll only remark on one of them. There's no way I'd live in a house on a permanent basis where I knew that for a few weeks a year I'd have to dry my bed off with a hairdryer. That's not living in my book! As you say there's probably a solution, but would you be able to afford the solution (rebuilding, putting in heating etc)? 
It's just a thought. No one's trying to put you off, but they are telling you what to expect from life in Spain


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## bob_bob (Jan 5, 2011)

You were leaving for NZ six months ago, why did that fall through?


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

bob_bob said:


> You were leaving for NZ six months ago, why did that fall through?


why does it matter?

plans change.....

we moved to the US at one time - I hated it once we were living there & in less than a year we were living in Spain...

10 years later we're still here


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Pesky Wesky said:


> To be fair, you asked us for our thoughts and we have shared them with you. There have been concerns about the children, the money that you have to live on and seems to have focused in the last few posts on the weather.
> I can see that the weather seems trivial to you, and it may well be, but I think the posters were trying to make you aware that the weather is not always good and the houses are not always well prepared for that.
> I'm kind of surprised by some of your comments, but I'll only remark on one of them. There's no way I'd live in a house on a permanent basis where I knew that for a few weeks a year I'd have to dry my bed off with a hairdryer. That's not living in my book! As you say there's probably a solution, but would you be able to afford the solution (rebuilding, putting in heating etc)?
> It's just a thought. No one's trying to put you off, but they are telling you what to expect from life in Spain


Its my "beloved" who does the hairdryer on his bed lol (We have single beds here and I dont do mine, he's just very "precious"  but it is damp!)!!!! We rented this place last summer for this winter with some friends of ours and of course, you dont get the "winter" picture when you look around these places and actually the choice of this particular property was down to my friends and their part of the house isnt as bad - well its higher up and sunnier - we're in the sotano, but its only a three month rental!!! Every house we've lived in in Spain has had a damp problem tho, as have friends houses!

On the whole subject of moving to Spain, well all I can say is that if you can afford it, then try it. But and its not me being negative - the novelty of sitting on terraces and "living the dream" wears off quite sharply and isnt like the holiday you think it will be and thats really what the "negative" comments have been about, from folk who also love Spain and are living the life - but with the reality - not the "a place in the sun" mentality. Its something maybe many of us have forgotten - sitting on the terrace with a glass of vino, kids playing happily in the pool, yes, I vcan remember that, but life takes over, chores etc need to be done and life in Spain for us, was actually no more relaxing than in the UK. I had a saying "Same s***, different place"!! For us, the real negatives were that my husband had to commute, my daughter hated Spain (she hated the heat, the dust, the insects, the people, the backwardness...), its amazing how quickly kids get bored of the sun, swimming pool, sea etc., and the bureaucracy . 

We give advice and realism on here from what we have found and how life is, thats all, we're not being negative, we all had your ideals once you know! You need to try it and always make sure that you have a plan B.





Jo xxxx


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## Pazcat (Mar 24, 2010)

jojo said:


> sitting on the terrace with a glass of vino, kids playing happily in the pool, yes, I vcan remember that, but life takes over, chores etc need to be done and life in Spain for us, was actually no more relaxing than in the UK. I had a saying "Same s***, different place"!!
> 
> Jo xxxx


You know this is a point that I understand, and I have seen the same type of posts as I'm sure everybody else has and people initially seem to be under the illusion(maybe because of certain tv programs?) that life will somehow be magically better. Yet while they have this dream of moving to the Sun for a better life for them and their family it often feels like they are actually forgetting their family in pursuit of said dream. I didn't word that last sentence well but hopefully my point comes across.
Really, life goes no matter where you are and as you so rightly put it Jo all the same household duties are there to be dealt with regardless of your location and this is the aspect of family life that comes first.
The mundane, it still has a hold on us no matter what.

I realise that that may be a massive generalisation and of course this isn't true for everyone or even most but I can understand the plight of the forum regulars who daily see posts of a similar nature and feel the need to inject a tad of realism.
Maybe it is just a way of sorting the wheat from the chaff? 

Still the whole weather thing I find amusing but what I take from it is to have a good hard look at any house we move into or buy and see what if anything needs doing on the heating front. I don't see it as all that much of a big deal to be honest because the weather is infinitely better in Spain than it is here. Whatever issues arise there are always solutions for them.
Ask my eldest kid what colour the sky is and he will tell you "white".
Although I will say the weather is a huge factor that we do look forward to enjoying and probably have a good grizzle about the heat come summertime. 

And again, you see it pop up all the time on the forums whether to rent or buy and I think if you can afford it a combination of both is the right approach. We are lucky to have gotten a pretty reasonable job offer and it is the reason for our move over anything else and from our point of view the real estate prices are very attractive right now, will they drop further? Maybe but they don't have a great deal further to drop, certainly if you can afford it the the time has never been better to buy and it may even get better in the future.
It's a shame that it is at a point now that a house with land at 200K doesn't even come into our consideration anymore despite the fact that it would be in budget and if you put that same property on the market here, Paris, London, Sydney you will be looking at paying nearly six figures for it and I do feel for those who are taking that hit, it can't be nice.
But I do think that renting for the first year or so is essential before buying, you need to make good contacts and research the idea before just picking a house because it looks nice.

I don't know I have rambled on a bit, replied to probably more than one post but to the OP only you will know if the move is feasible for you but personally we are really looking forward to moving and are approaching it as a positive move for our family even if we do have to work hard for it, beats the hell out of Belgium anyway. Blahh..


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## thrax (Nov 13, 2008)

As Xabi said, once you've been here a year, even 20C feels a bit chilly!! But we were sitting on the terrace yesterday with a neighbour and it was wonderful. We didn't need any heating here until January and were still having BBQs in December. I built a huge log fire on Christmas Day but basically it was so hot we all sat outside!! Modern aircon units are in fact quite cheap to run for heating - my parents have one and their electricity bill dropped once they started using it instead of the electic heaters - but my advice would be not to even think about buying here for at least two years. It will take that long to figure out if it is really for you!! As for the Almuñecar International School, I'm afraid it has a very poor reputation. There are much better schools heading towards Malaga (East side) and also in Malaga itself plus another West of Malaga where JoJo's daughter went when here. I teach a number of students from The school in Almuñecar (maths and sciences) and the level of tuition they receive is frightening - good for me though!!

My view of you position is go for it. But be prepared to change your plans 100% as things don't seem to work out here the way you initially planned. Your 3 yr old will be very happy here and will quickly absorb the language. If the other two have strong language skills they will pick it up but probably never to the ability your young one will. If they don't they will struggle a bit but probably learn enough to get by.

As for winter?? We love the winter here. Yes it can be very very cold, especially when you have acclimatised to the heat of summer, but it is wonderful to sit in front of the log fire watching a movie and a glass of mulled wine (for example). And down here we get very clearly defined seasons which we love. Spring has now sprung and we will be eating lunch on the terrace today. Lovely!!


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## SteveScot (Feb 11, 2013)

I regularly visit my small bungalow in the southern Alicante area and would move out permanently in a heartbeat if I could. I love the outdoor living aspect to it. In the first week of January I was sitting on my roof terrace in shorts and T shirt reading a book. Yes, evenings were chilly, around 4 or 5 deg celcius, but an hour with the calor gas heater on brings the living room up to a comfortable temperature and i have hot / cold aircon in the bedroom. I find it very liveable. OK, my house is quite small at around 55 sq. m living space, so it's not a large area to heat. In the height of summer, outside temperatures regularly get up to around 33 - 35 deg, and if not sitting outdoors, I usually retreat to the front terrace area which is under shade and have the house patio doors open at the front and windows open at the rear to allow a good airflow through. The aircon only gets used from around 8pm on to cool the bedroom and living room down to around 25 deg for sleeping.

If I didn't have a need to work to fund living there all year round, I would be there like a shot, I love it so much, but sadly I think it would be a bit of a struggle to find work, so I make do with staying put in the UK and visiting Spain 6 times a year, which just about helps to keep me sane 

It's one of those 'you won't know until you give it a go' scenarios.... With kids to factor in, it becomes a harder decision, but without the need to actually find work in Spain, I for one would say 'go for it'.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

> What I think is that the whole weather question has got out of hand!
> I don't think anyone is saying that the "cold" weather in Spain is the be all and end all of life here. It's just that many newcomers or soon to be newcomers state the weather in Spain as one of the main reasons as for emigrating. People already living here feel obliged to point out that the weather is not always that great and the building isn't all that great either. And as most of us are Brits in origin we're not going to pass up the opportunity of talking about the weather, so you get a lot of posts.
> If you haven't budgeted for gas bottles/ air conditioning then your calculations could all go to pot, so it _*is*_ important information as far as we are concerned.
> Conclusion
> Is *does* get cold in Spain. In general, even in the north, the weather is better than the UK. Make calculations to afford some kind of heating where ever you go except, possibly the Canary Islands!


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## Pazcat (Mar 24, 2010)

I never said it wasn't important info but these things in general are part of life and true it does seem that people tend to have an illusion and forget their heads.
I don't know maybe coming from southern Australia where the climate is very similar to Spain and at least in years gone by the insulation non existent has me prepared more than most but a rule of thumb would be to make sure any property you live in has adequate heating and cooling, even in Belgium or the UK.

But you are right, I think it has got out of hand and be prepared for cold winters is good advice.


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## sim4maz (Jan 15, 2013)

wonfor said:


> Thanks for that Simon. Wish you lots of luck! Its nice to hear there are others in our predicament. Please do keep us posted. A lot of people go through life working hard and not enjoying life. Thats what we seem to have done for the past 20 years and its about time we enjoyed life a little more. You're exactly right. Its about lifestyle change and enjoying some sunshine and outdoor living. I dont know about you but whenever you seem to post on a forum, it all seems to be doom and gloom. Your life is what you make of it and if like us you have the opportunity to carry on earning in the uk but make a better life for yourselves elsewhere then I say "GO FOR IT!". Whats the worst that can happen? You decide its not for you and go back home to your already established business. I'm one of these people that doesn't want to look back and say "I wish I'd done that"


Been in Spain nearly a week... Love it. Met people, schooling looks great, houses amazing given same cost as we'd make renting ours in Uk... We are about 99% decided. It's fascinating having read so much on forums before we came and then being here... You can't beat the real life research. We are going to blog about our move as it happens so will keep you posted!


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## wonfor (Oct 25, 2012)

sim4maz said:


> Hi,
> We are in a similar mindset to you and actually off tomorrow for an exploration trip for a week. We are going to look at Almunecar International School and a few houses that match the kind of thing we could rent to give us an idea. Our eldest is 10 so about to go into secondary school hence our plan would be to move by Sept this year. Our other 2 are younger (6 and 3). Like you, fed up with the drudge of the UK and fancy an adventure abroad. Again income from UK business so won't be relying on Spanish employment etc - all about a change of lifestyle for us.
> I'll let you know how we get on in case it helps you at all!
> Simon


Hi Simon........so how did you get on in the end???


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## wonfor (Oct 25, 2012)

SteveScot said:


> I regularly visit my small bungalow in the southern Alicante area and would move out permanently in a heartbeat if I could. I love the outdoor living aspect to it. In the first week of January I was sitting on my roof terrace in shorts and T shirt reading a book. Yes, evenings were chilly, around 4 or 5 deg celcius, but an hour with the calor gas heater on brings the living room up to a comfortable temperature and i have hot / cold aircon in the bedroom. I find it very liveable. OK, my house is quite small at around 55 sq. m living space, so it's not a large area to heat. In the height of summer, outside temperatures regularly get up to around 33 - 35 deg, and if not sitting outdoors, I usually retreat to the front terrace area which is under shade and have the house patio doors open at the front and windows open at the rear to allow a good airflow through. The aircon only gets used from around 8pm on to cool the bedroom and living room down to around 25 deg for sleeping.
> 
> If I didn't have a need to work to fund living there all year round, I would be there like a shot, I love it so much, but sadly I think it would be a bit of a struggle to find work, so I make do with staying put in the UK and visiting Spain 6 times a year, which just about helps to keep me sane
> 
> It's one of those 'you won't know until you give it a go' scenarios.... With kids to factor in, it becomes a harder decision, but without the need to actually find work in Spain, I for one would say 'go for it'.


Well finally after a few years, we're now in a similar position to what you posted. We bought a 2 bed apartment in La Mata and absolutely love it. Work in the uk is stronger than ever so we're not quite at the point of moving lock stock to Spain. Instead, we get out 6/7 times a year so we are managing to spend around 2 months of the year in Spain. Each time we go we enjoy the time we spend there and have different holidays on every visit. We spend 3 weeks there in high summer, 2 weeks at easter, and all the other school breaks. We were even sat at restaurants on the beach at Christmas. Its a very small compromise but I'm more than happy to work at home for 6 weeks at a time and then come back to the Spain.


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