# American married to Spaniard - moving to Segovia in December 2021! HALP



## americaninsegovia (Jul 26, 2021)

Hi everyone! 

I hope you are all well & appreciate any help you can give as I am stuck between these forums and emailing the Chicago embassy every day. The best path is not coming clear to me so I would love any insight! 

My Spanish husband and I (American) are planning to move to Segovia in December. Last fall, we legalized our marriage certificate (finally after 8 years) and I received the Libro de Familia. I wanted to prepare before moving to Spain and therefore emailed the embassy to see the clean step in our situation. They advised me to apply for a visa but from this forum, I am hearing otherwise. 

1. Could I legally arrive on the Schengen tourist visa and within 90 days apply for a Permanent Residency? This would give me my TIE and NIE. 

2. Is it smart to also apply and receive my NIE before I move? I have heard this helps with bank accounts, buying a home..etc. We plan on buying a house within a month of moving. 

3. I work for a remote company out of Seattle which is US-based. They have approved my move. Can I legally work upon arrival getting paid in my US bank until I get my residency? My company is exploring options to become an S.L company in Spain and if not, how would I go about working for an American company legally in Spain while paying Spanish taxes and receiving my benefits? 

If anyone has a similar experience or any tips at all, I would appreciate your feedback. Thank you!


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## timwip (Feb 27, 2017)

americaninsegovia said:


> Hi everyone!
> 
> I hope you are all well & appreciate any help you can give as I am stuck between these forums and emailing the Chicago embassy every day. The best path is not coming clear to me so I would love any insight!
> 
> ...


First of all, I would like to congratulate you for choosing Segovia. One of the most beautiful cities in Spain. It is also good since it is off the expat trail. 

I am an American also married to a Spaniard. I made the move about two years ago. Here is my advice:

1. You do not need to go through the Chicago consulate. Just come over to Spain. I think you need to start the process within three months of arrival since as an American non-resident, you are only allowed to be here 90 days of 180. I hired a local lawyer to help me through the process. He charged me 200 Euros. You probably do not need a lawyer: however, I found things very smooth with his help. Also, it is overall beneficial to develop a relationship with a lawyer and a gestor. 

2. Being married to a Spaniard, you will for sure get residency. However, you need to realize it is a process. It took me about three or four months after arriving to get residency, tarjeta sanitaria, driver's license. Not only getting these items done is a process, it is almost like a treasure hunt. For example, to get my tarjeta sanitaria, there was like a ten step process. In one location they told me the next step I had to go to an office "one block from the round church near the bakery that smells so good". When I asked for an address they had no idea. I eventually found the office.

3. Europe does not accept US drivers licenses. As a result, you need to start from the beginning: pass the theoretical test, medical exam, practical test. However, do bring certification from US of how long you have had your drivers license. Even though Spain does not accept your US license, they accept your experience. As a result, you will be given an insurance in accordance with your years of driving.

4. I had my NIE ten years before I moved here. The NIE is fairly quick to get. You will need it for a bank account, buying a house, etc.

5. Figure out how you are going to regularly transfer money from US to Spain. We use Transferwise. They are good; however, other people on the board recommend other services which are likely equally as good.

6. My lawyer advised me that I could work remotely on a non-lucrative visa. People on this board say otherwise; however, I prefer to follow the advice of the lawyer that has been working on matters for my wife's family for years. With respect to how you should set things up with your company, that is out of my ballpark and I can give you no good advice.


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## tardigrade (May 23, 2021)

France accepts 7 States drivers license for a direct exchange, the other 43 you would have to take the test. I know this is not France but to say " Europe does not accept or recognize US drivers license" is not true.

Talk to the driving school if required as they can and usually will let you only take 1 actual driving lesson instead of the normal amount a spanish student would have to have as you are already experienced. It will save you a little money.

You can get your NIE number thru Chicago. If it is close by or you are already going there, get it there. Saves a little time on the ground here.


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## americaninsegovia (Jul 26, 2021)

timwip said:


> First of all, I would like to congratulate you for choosing Segovia. One of the most beautiful cities in Spain. It is also good since it is off the expat trail.
> 
> I am an American also married to a Spaniard. I made the move about two years ago. Here is my advice:
> 
> ...


Well, aren't you a gem! Thank you so much for this advice & help as I am sure you went through the same ringer two years ago. I hope you are loving Spain and the new lifestyle. Would love to compare notes along the way & see how everything went for you.

Yes - Segovia is one of the most beautiful cities. When you say off the Expat trail, what do you mean? Sorry just joined the forum yesterday and BOY am I learning so much already!  I will respond to your notes below if I have any additional questions. I truly appreciate you taking the time and energy to do this. It means a lot!

1. Love to hear this! I received an email from the Chicago Embassy shortly after your note which confirmed the same.Lovely to hear that a Spanish lawyer is that cheap and did not charge an arm/leg. If I find myself in a similar situation, I honestly might do the same to save the headache. Would you kindly explain what the gestor does and what is needed for? Not sure if this is comparative to a US position for more clarity.

2. Glad to hear! I have thankfully been through far too many processes before as I handled my husband's American citizenship which took 5+ years. I had a short legal stint at work so I understand paperwork (to an extent). Starting the process all over again won't be fun but I am ready for the challenge! Your journey to get your Tarjeta Sanitaria sounds like a doozy though!

3. Yes - this is the one thing my husband has said to start studying for if I want to do this quickly. Thankfully in Segovia, I do not need to drive as much so I will do this over time. It is good to know that there are options here and if I choose the right driving school/course, they will take my history into account. Very helpful!

4. Getting this soon from the Chicago Embassy - glad to hear it was so painless & quick!

5. Transferwise seems to be the most popular one that I have come across. Did you transfer all yours at once and close your American bank account? Once I get my residency and can get my American company set up as an enterprise to get paid in Euro, then I would no longer need to transfer money. That is another can of worms!

6. With your non-lucrative visa, how does that work? Are you still being paid by your American company working remote and living in Spain? I have seen that if you live more than 183 in Spain


timwip said:


> First of all, I would like to congratulate you for choosing Segovia. One of the most beautiful cities in Spain. It is also good since it is off the expat trail.
> 
> I am an American also married to a Spaniard. I made the move about two years ago. Here is my advice:
> 
> ...


Well, aren't you a gem! Thank you so much for this advice & help as I am sure you went through the same ringer two years ago. I hope you are loving Spain and the new lifestyle. Would love to compare notes along the way & see how everything went for you. 

Yes - Segovia is one of the most beautiful cities. When you say off the Expat trail, what do you mean? Sorry just joined the forum yesterday and BOY am I learning so much already!  I will respond to your notes below if I have any additional questions. I truly appreciate you taking the time and energy to do this. It means a lot! 

1. Love to hear this! I received an email from the Chicago Embassy shortly after your note which confirmed the same. Lovely to hear that a Spanish lawyer is that cheap and did not charge an arm/leg. If I find myself in a similar situation, I honestly might do the same to save the headache. Would you kindly explain what the gestor does and what they needed for? Not sure if this is comparative to a US position for more clarity. 

2. Glad to hear! I have thankfully been through far too many processes before as I handled my husband's American citizenship which took 5+ years. I had a short legal stint at work so I understand paperwork (to an extent). Starting the process all over again won't be fun but I am ready for the challenge! Your journey to get your Tarjeta Sanitaria sounds like a doozy though! 

3. Yes - this is the one thing my husband has said to start studying for if I want to do this quickly. Thankfully in Segovia, I do not need to drive as much so I will do this over time. It is good to know that there are options here and if I choose the right driving school/course, they will take my history into account. Very helpful! 

4. Getting this soon from the Chicago Embassy - glad to hear it was so painless & quick! 

5. Transferwise seems to be the most popular one that I have come across. Did you transfer all yours at once and close your American bank account? Once I get my residency and can get my American company set up as an enterprise to get paid in Euro, then I would no longer need to transfer money. That is another can of worms! 

6. With your non-lucrative visa, how does that work? Are you still being paid by your American company working remotely and living in Spain? I have seen that if you live more than 183 in Spain in a year, you have to pay taxes to Spain instead. I would love to know your situation and how you made it work to be in line with your lawyer's advice. This is probably my biggest question and inquiry through the process! How to make it work with paying US taxes instead of Spanish taxes. 

Again, you are a rockstar & I appreciate your time/help as I navigate my journey!


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## americaninsegovia (Jul 26, 2021)

tardigrade said:


> France accepts 7 States drivers license for a direct exchange, the other 43 you would have to take the test. I know this is not France but to say " Europe does not accept or recognize US drivers license" is not true.
> 
> Talk to the driving school if required as they can and usually will let you only take 1 actual driving lesson instead of the normal amount a spanish student would have to have as you are already experienced. It will save you a little money.
> 
> You can get your NIE number thru Chicago. If it is close by or you are already going there, get it there. Saves a little time on the ground here.


Hi! Thanks for these tips and taking the time to reply. 

Nice to hear they allow you to take one test instead of starting from scratch. I will definitely keep this in mind when I am going through the process. I have talked to the Chicago Embassy and I am going to drive to Chicago soon to get the NIE number. Already done with the application!  Glad to know it is easier to have beforehand to make the process just that much easier. 

Appreciate it!


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## timwip (Feb 27, 2017)

I believe you are very lucky to be relocating to Segovia, I assume that is where your husband is from. Segovia is mid-sized, traditional city much like where I live in Oviedo. It has all the amenities of a big city like Madrid; however, just on a smaller scale--theater, opera, sports. For example, we often go the Oviedo Philharmonic. Granted it is likely not as good as the Madrid Philharmonic; however, I listened to too much rock and roll when I was a kid and my ears are likely screwed up anyway and I could not tell the difference. Similarly, we are season ticket holders to Real Oviedo, a second division team. I love going to the games! It is more fun than Wrigley Field on a Sunday afternoon. The bonus is that we can walk to both from our house. That means we can have a few wines on the way home afterwards. I guess what I am trying to get at is that just dive into Spanish life. I am sure that there is a lot of it in Segovia!

When I say that Segovia is off the expat trail, I mean you will not find many English speakers there. The real benefit of this is that it will force you into Spanish life and speaking Spanish. I am sure that your husband will really help you in making this transition.

The drivers license, Spain does not have a reciprocity agreement with any state in the United States. Previously, I mis-spoke and said Europe does not and someone pointed out that France does. You will be starting from zero on your drivers license. You will need to take the theoretical test. In typical Spanish form they ask a number of trick questions on the exam. As a result, don't have the attitude that you have been driving in the US for x years, of course it will be a breeze in Spain. Then you need to take the medical exam. Then you need to take the practical exam. I started driving when I was 15 years old in the US. I have been driving for over 40 years. Maybe I am just stupid but I could not imagine taking 1 lesson and then taking the practical. I think each my wife and I took about 7 or 8 lessons. First of all, cities are laid different in Spain than the US. Second of all, they have an overload of signage. Third of all in Asturias, the signs are in Spanish and Bable, as result, there are twice as many words on a sign. Fourth of all speed limits change very quickly. There was one point in my practical exam where the DGT guy just said drive somewhere. Well you need to be familiar with the streets and the signage to drive somewhere.

Transferring money. I was advised by my Spanish accountant to keep our money in the United States. As a result, we just transfer a fixed amount per money for living expenses in Spain. Although, we still declare our US accounts on the Modelo 720. For our monthly transfer, we use Transferwise. They have a very good reputation and have never had a problem with them; however, they are not insured. They could go bankrupt tomorrow and you could be out the money. As a result, I personally not transfer large sums of money through them. As a result, to buy our house we used a bank transfer from Bank of America to Banco de Santander. You do not get as good of a rate through them; however, that transfer is totally insured.

A gestor is a person with like a business administration degree. They help you with administrative paperwork. In Spain, there is a lot of paperwork! People use a gestor for simple taxes, protesting taxes. For example, my sister-in-law owns a house on a street that was named after a Nationalist leader. The Principality of Asturias has just past a law that prohibits streets, plazas, etc to be named after Nationalists. As a result, my sister-in-law is working with a gestor to get the deed of her house updated so that it now has the new name of the street.

The non-lucrative visa. My lawyer explained that you could work remotely in Spain on a NLV as long as you were not working for a Spanish company. This makes sense since the Spanish government doesn't want you taking a job from a Spaniard. However, the company you are working for is in the United States. There are many benefits to Spain for allowing you to work remotely for a US company, you will still pay taxes in Spain and you will be spending money in Spain. They get an extra tax payer without even creating a job!

The tax situation. Both Spain and the US tax world-wide income and you will have to file a tax return in both countries. There are two possibilities; however, in all three cases you will be paying in total the higher tax rate of the two countries which is Spain:

Case 1-Spain has first right to your income. As a result, you pay Spanish taxes first and then when you file your US taxes since there is a treaty, you deduct your Spanish taxes from your US taxes and pay zero to the US.

Case 2-US has first right to your income. As a result, you pay US taxes first then you file Spanish taxes and you can deduct your US taxes paid from your Spanish taxes and pay 
Spain the difference.

You do not have a choice of which option. The tax treaty dictates which of the two paths you need to take. You pay the same total tax either way; however, the only difference is who gets paid first. I advise you to get professional help on how you should do it.


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## americaninsegovia (Jul 26, 2021)

timwip said:


> I believe you are very lucky to be relocating to Segovia, I assume that is where your husband is from. Segovia is mid-sized, traditional city much like where I live in Oviedo. It has all the amenities of a big city like Madrid; however, just on a smaller scale--theater, opera, sports. For example, we often go the Oviedo Philharmonic. Granted it is likely not as good as the Madrid Philharmonic; however, I listened to too much rock and roll when I was a kid and my ears are likely screwed up anyway and I could not tell the difference. Similarly, we are season ticket holders to Real Oviedo, a second division team. I love going to the games! It is more fun than Wrigley Field on a Sunday afternoon. The bonus is that we can walk to both from our house. That means we can have a few wines on the way home afterwards. I guess what I am trying to get at is that just dive into Spanish life. I am sure that there is a lot of it in Segovia!
> 
> When I say that Segovia is off the expat trail, I mean you will not find many English speakers there. The real benefit of this is that it will force you into Spanish life and speaking Spanish. I am sure that your husband will really help you in making this transition.
> 
> ...


Yes - I love Segovia so much! I have visited many times to visit and fully know this will be the best city to live in! Thankfully, I studied Spanish in college and have been speaking it while in Spain for years. A bit rusty as I have not traveled back due to Covid in 1.5 years but have hopes it kicks back in within the first month. I love the close proximity to Madrid where more family and friends live. Overall, such an exciting part of Spain! I love to hear of your different experiences in Oviedo. I have not been there yet and imagine I will visit someday. I am from Saint Louis so love the Wrigley Field comparison (even though I am a Cards fan!). Glad to hear you are enjoying Spain and all of its rich experiences. 

I imagine this driver's license journey will be a rough one but I am ready for it! Do you remember how many months your US DL was valid for right when you moved there? I plan on working on taking it within the first few months but we are only getting one car and I will probably not need to drive much so I am not too rushed with this. Many of our family members in Segovia/Madrid do not even have their DLs or cars so I will do my best to complete it quickly. 

Glad to hear you received advice to keep your money in the US! We received similar advice and were wondering if this would hurt us in any way. I have heard Transferwise is the way to go for moving small amounts each month. I am working through the logistics of that now and wondering when I need to send money over before the move. Did you send money over before you got there or upon your arrival? Smart to hear of the larger transfer with the insurance behind it. Never crossed my mind but definitely the best route to take. 

Thanks for the explanation and fabulous story about the gestor! Seems like I will need to find a local gestor before I arrive to help with paperwork. I am imagining they do the translation as well as that is needed for most Spanish forms? 

For now, I am suggesting to my company to do the Non-Lucrative Visa as you did. This will be my process before applying for the S.L for my company in Spain and starting the process to open an office there. Were you able to work remotely for months in Spain while you went through the process to get this NLV? How long did the process take overall? Any tips for the NLV are much appreciated! 

I found the tax treaty that states the tax situation for Spain/US. Since I would be living for more than 6 months, I would file in both countries but pay Spanish taxes and let it reflect from there. Have you had to pay the Expat tax on top of your Spanish taxes? Guess I am just imagining how much the US taxes would be after the Spanish taxes are deducted so I can anticipate what my take-home income will be. 

Again, thanks for your help! This week, I will start diving further into starting an S.L. for my company and that process. It will be a doozy but I imagine I won't be able to do much until I am in Spain.


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## tardigrade (May 23, 2021)

If you wait a little bit a new law - process is on the cards for new business starting. In the past you needed €3000 capitol to start but they are proposing just €1 capitol and everything should be done online and in 10 days


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## americaninsegovia (Jul 26, 2021)

Oh wow - that is wonderful to know! I plan on moving in December and starting the full process then. Do you think this will be done by then?

I am also starting this S.L. on behalf of my American company which I do not own. I am just an employee at. Do you know if when I submit, I will need to submit as an owner, or is there another route I can take to be an administrator using my CEO as the owner? 

I do not envision the 3000 euro will scare my company away from starting the process but it is nice to know the process is evolving and could cost less by the time I start the proceedings, thank you!


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## americaninsegovia (Jul 26, 2021)

I saw these steps from another post on this forum. Any chance this looks correct? Not sure how far into the process you are or got. If you have any insight, I would appreciate your advice. Thank you again! 

1. First of all you need a certificate (Certificacion Negativa del Nombre (CNN)) stating that the company name you intent to use is not taken. This can be bought in the Registro Mercantil for about 10€.

2. The next step is to get a temporary CIF number (company identification number). To get this you have to fill in the model 037, bring 2 copies of you identification and the original CNN. This can be done in the 'Camara de Comercio' or the 'Ventanilla Unica' in your town.


3. Thereafter you need to deposit 3006 € in a bank account opened in the company's name. You need a certificate from the bank stating that you have made the deposit.

4. The next step is to prepare the official statement of the company (Escritura) and make a public notary sign it. The official statement of the company is saying who is the owners, the address of the company, what the company will be doing etc. Normally the elaboration of this statement is included in the public notary fee (which can range between 200 and 1000€).

5. The company now need to pay a tax of 1% of the initial capital, which is 1% of the bank deposit (minimum 30.06€). This should be done in the tax administration office using the form 600. Remember to bring a copy of and the original 'Escritura' and a copy of your temporary CIF number.

6. When you have paid the above tax you need a certificate from the Registro Mercantil (the same place where you got the CNN) of your Escritura.

7. Now you need to fill in the following forms 36 or 37 (a declaration of starting your activity) and the inscription of the company with social security (form TA6) at the 'Camara de Comercio' or the 'Ventanilla Unica'. You also need to acquire and bring a book called Libro de Visitas, which is an official book used by the government when they do official inspections of your company.

8. The next step (also at the Camara de 'Comercio' or the 'Ventanilla Unica') depends on the number of employees there is going to be in the company. If the only workers are the owners then you need to fill in the form TA 0521/B. If you need other employees you need to get a pre-contract for social security.

9. At this stage you also need to apply for licenses with the local government if it is needed. In generally all public places like bars and shops and also manufactures need a special license (In the 'Camara de Comercio' or the 'Ventanilla Unica' they can inform you about licenses needed to run your business. It is also a very good idea to also seek professional help for this issue).

10. If your company is going to have employees (apart from the owners) you need to register them with a local INEM office (unemployment office).

11. The company can start to operate as soon as you have received all your licenses. The last step is to get the final CIF number at the 'Camara de Comercio' or the 'Ventanilla Unica' by showing the original certificate from the Registro Mercantil of your Escritura.


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## tardigrade (May 23, 2021)

All of the above is what they are changing and the process will only be online and finished in 10 days.

If you have not used your allotment of views it explains it here

https://www.thelocal.es/20210804/wh...pany-in-spain-with-just-e1-rather-than-e3000/


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## tardigrade (May 23, 2021)

I do not know about a satellite office or subsidiary here in Spain. I have looked at it and it states that it is considered as a normal business so should change if this is passed into law. In France I opened an Panamanian company with the title of " a business but without a place of business" - something like that and the corporate tax was 3% instead of 33%. What we did was just employ sales men and women there without actually having an office, warehouse, etc..

What are the main differences between a branch office and a subsidiary


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## americaninsegovia (Jul 26, 2021)

tardigrade said:


> All of the above is what they are changing and the process will only be online and finished in 10 days.
> 
> If you have not used your allotment of views it explains it here
> 
> https://www.thelocal.es/20210804/wh...pany-in-spain-with-just-e1-rather-than-e3000/


Thanks for this! Any chance you know the name of the law that is HOPEFULLY going into effect? This would be awesome and I would definitely hold off on doing this until that goes through. I plan to move in December and would start the process in January. 

Appreciate it!


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## americaninsegovia (Jul 26, 2021)

tardigrade said:


> I do not know about a satellite office or subsidiary here in Spain. I have looked at it and it states that it is considered as a normal business so should change if this is passed into law. In France I opened an Panamanian company with the title of " a business but without a place of business" - something like that and the corporate tax was 3% instead of 33%. What we did was just employ sales men and women there without actually having an office, warehouse, etc..
> 
> What are the main differences between a branch office and a subsidiary


This is quite helpful! I have heard that I would need to get a lawyer and gestor once I get to Spain and start the process. I would be interested to know in the different layers I could choose for the business as I am just an admin and not the owner. We would not actually have an office or warehouse so maybe these rules apply as well. I shall find out!


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## tardigrade (May 23, 2021)

americaninsegovia said:


> Thanks for this! Any chance you know the name of the law that is HOPEFULLY going into effect? This would be awesome and I would definitely hold off on doing this until that goes through. I plan to move in December and would start the process in January.
> 
> Appreciate it!


try this..
Set up a company with €1 in capital in 10 days: New legislation in the pipeline


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## Rvkrules (Oct 29, 2021)

americaninsegovia said:


> Hi everyone!
> 
> I hope you are all well & appreciate any help you can give as I am stuck between these forums and emailing the Chicago embassy every day. The best path is not coming clear to me so I would love any insight!
> 
> ...


 Hey ! Segovia is great and cute city. I’m married to a local and been here for about a year. I think you got answers to a lot of your questions but feel free to direct message me for any local advice you’d need. good luck on the process and move!!


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## americaninsegovia (Jul 26, 2021)

Rvkrules said:


> Hey ! Segovia is great and cute city. I’m married to a local and been here for about a year. I think you got answers to a lot of your questions but feel free to direct message me for any local advice you’d need. good luck on the process and move!!


Sorry for the late response but thank you so much! How has your experience been working in Spain? I am now considering becoming an independent contractor and would love any advice. Thank you!


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## Do28 (Dec 21, 2010)

If you are coming as a dependent you don't need a NLV or any other visa and there is nothing stopping you becoming an autonimo......


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## Rvkrules (Oct 29, 2021)

americaninsegovia said:


> Sorry for the late response but thank you so much! How has your experience been working in Spain? I am now considering becoming an independent contractor and would love any advice. Thank you!


Hey. I'm not a contractor but know some people who are freelancers or Autonomos. My situation was different. Feel free to dm and can link you up. Also if/when youve arrived in segovia already happy to grab a coffee and chat


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## americaninsegovia (Jul 26, 2021)

Do28 said:


> If you are coming as a dependent you don't need a NLV or any other visa and there is nothing stopping you becoming an autonimo......


Thank you for this! That is good to hear. I feel like my particular situation is not mentioned anywhere on the Spain websites. 

Do you think there is anything I would need from here such as a police report or doctor's exam before I start the process as a whole?


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## americaninsegovia (Jul 26, 2021)

Rvkrules said:


> Hey. I'm not a contractor but know some people who are freelancers or Autonomos. My situation was different. Feel free to dm and can link you up. Also if/when youve arrived in segovia already happy to grab a coffee and chat


That would be lovely! I arrive on December 29th. Will try to reach out after the holidays!


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## ceelpia_es (Dec 12, 2021)

americaninsegovia said:


> Hi! Thanks for these tips and taking the time to reply.
> 
> Nice to hear they allow you to take one test instead of starting from scratch. I will definitely keep this in mind when I am going through the process. I have talked to the Chicago Embassy and I am going to drive to Chicago soon to get the NIE number. Already done with the application!  Glad to know it is easier to have beforehand to make the process just that much easier.
> 
> Appreciate it!





americaninsegovia said:


> Hi everyone!
> 
> I hope you are all well & appreciate any help you can give as I am stuck between these forums and emailing the Chicago embassy every day. The best path is not coming clear to me so I would love any insight!
> 
> ...


Hi there! 
I'm in the exact same boat (American married to a Spaniard, planning on moving to Spain soon) but it seems like you're a bit further along in the process than I am. I actually was wondering if you could offer me some advice? 

I was wondering how you filled out the NIE application? Specifically curious about how you filled out the "motivos" section (economic, professional, or social?) and if you chose non-resident (as you're a non-resident now but planning to be a resident soon). I know I can just ask the consulate but it sounds like you've had the same experience we have... they're helpful, but SLOW.
Also curious to hear how long it took you to get your libro de familia? We registered our marriage early in the year (after 5 years!) but still haven't heard anything back yet.

Thanks sooo much in advance.


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## americaninsegovia (Jul 26, 2021)

ceelpia_es said:


> Hi there!
> I'm in the exact same boat (American married to a Spaniard, planning on moving to Spain soon) but it seems like you're a bit further along in the process than I am. I actually was wondering if you could offer me some advice?
> 
> I was wondering how you filled out the NIE application? Specifically curious about how you filled out the "motivos" section (economic, professional, or social?) and if you chose non-resident (as you're a non-resident now but planning to be a resident soon). I know I can just ask the consulate but it sounds like you've had the same experience we have... they're helpful, but SLOW.
> ...


Well hello! Love to hear that someone else is in the same boat. It is ALWAYS filling with water.  

I applied for the NIE in July and went to the Chicago office in person to finalize everything around Labor Day. It was a quick turnaround and since I am moving in two weeks, I can say having it in advance has been a huge help. I am already able to open a bank account before I get there so I can get a phone plan and wifi. I have attached an image of what I had selected on my application. I hope this helps! 

To be honest, we went to the Chicago office around a year ago to legalize our certificate of marriage in person. When we were there, they made us aware of the libro de familia and they gave it to us on the spot. I had no idea we needed it! Are you able to go in person to check out the status? We live in St. Louis so the 5 hour drive sucked but we made it happen. Going in person gets things done 10x faster! Please let me know what other questions you have. I am also going to work for my American company over there and will be self-employed. Would love to hear your work situation and how you are making it possible! 

Also, it has helped in the last few months getting a local gestor/lawyer who has answered many questions for me. We are moving to Segovia but I would get someone in your area so you can meet in person when you move. Hope you have a great day and let me know if I can help with anything else! Cheers.


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## ceelpia_es (Dec 12, 2021)

americaninsegovia said:


> Well hello! Love to hear that someone else is in the same boat. It is ALWAYS filling with water.
> 
> I applied for the NIE in July and went to the Chicago office in person to finalize everything around Labor Day. It was a quick turnaround and since I am moving in two weeks, I can say having it in advance has been a huge help. I am already able to open a bank account before I get there so I can get a phone plan and wifi. I have attached an image of what I had selected on my application. I hope this helps!
> 
> ...


Ahhhh this is amazing and so helpful. Thank you! I made an appointment at the consulate for my NIE. Just out of curiosity, who did you end up opening your bank account with?

That's great advice about going in person. We're lucky enough to be close (like 15 mins) to our consulate so I think that's our best way forward for getting things ironed out as our move date gets closer. We went to register our marriage in person but they did warn us that the paperwork would take 6ish months, so I'm not panicking yet - but I will check-in on it when I go for my NIE if we don't have it by then.
My plan for work is to be "autónomo" working for my American company as a freelancer/contractor. I still have some questions but my in-laws are working on finding us a lawyer to talk to. 

How exciting that you've only got 2 weeks to go now... good luck with the move!


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## americaninsegovia (Jul 26, 2021)

ceelpia_es said:


> Ahhhh this is amazing and so helpful. Thank you! I made an appointment at the consulate for my NIE. Just out of curiosity, who did you end up opening your bank account with?
> 
> That's great advice about going in person. We're lucky enough to be close (like 15 mins) to our consulate so I think that's our best way forward for getting things ironed out as our move date gets closer. We went to register our marriage in person but they did warn us that the paperwork would take 6ish months, so I'm not panicking yet - but I will check-in on it when I go for my NIE if we don't have it by then.
> My plan for work is to be "autónomo" working for my American company as a freelancer/contractor. I still have some questions but my in-laws are working on finding us a lawyer to talk to.
> ...


Wow! This is awesome to hear that you are going through the EXACT same thing as me. Even though I have talkd to lawyers and they have relayed how easy it will be for me to work there, I am still confused on the process. From your understanding and research, what do you think the process will be? I imagined getting paid in the US bank by my American company while staying salaried for the first 6 months (or until my autonomo application goes through). Then switching to autonomo and getting paid in my Spanish bank. Does that sound right? Then we would need to file our taxes in both countries and use the US/Spain Treaty document to see how much we pay and where. 

Also, where are you moving? I have a helpful gestor/lawyer in Segovia if you need them! I honestly think I will get more direct answers and more clarity once I am in person. If anything, I can be your guinea pig for the right process. LOL

My husband and I have not secured the bank account yet but we are doing so today with BBVA based on my SIL's recommendation. We will still keep our American bank account where most of our money will lie and monthly, we will use WeTransfer to send over larger amounts to buy a car, house...etc.What bank were you thinking?

Also, my SIL recommended doing this package where wifi, TV, two cell phone lines with unlimited data and Disney for 150 euro a month which does not seem bad seeing as I pay that for my American phone. Note we are bringing over our unlocked Apple phones so we dont need to buy new devices. Wanted to share in case you are already thinking of this! I have to work immediately upon arrival so I want to secure it before I get there with my new bank account. 

Thanks so much for chatting and happy to keep sharing tips and tricks so we survive our moves!


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## ceelpia_es (Dec 12, 2021)

americaninsegovia said:


> Wow! This is awesome to hear that you are going through the EXACT same thing as me. Even though I have talkd to lawyers and they have relayed how easy it will be for me to work there, I am still confused on the process. From your understanding and research, what do you think the process will be? I imagined getting paid in the US bank by my American company while staying salaried for the first 6 months (or until my autonomo application goes through). Then switching to autonomo and getting paid in my Spanish bank. Does that sound right? Then we would need to file our taxes in both countries and use the US/Spain Treaty document to see how much we pay and where.
> 
> Also, where are you moving? I have a helpful gestor/lawyer in Segovia if you need them! I honestly think I will get more direct answers and more clarity once I am in person. If anything, I can be your guinea pig for the right process. LOL
> 
> ...


Hey! Sorry I didn't respond to this sooner, but I know your move has already happened! How's everything going so far?


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## americaninsegovia (Jul 26, 2021)

Hi! Sorry for the late response here as well. To be quite honest, I knew Spanish bureaucracy was slow but not THIS slow. I have gotten nowhere in my journey as a Spanish marriage certificate within 3 months has been my main hurdle. I have been working to get this for 1.5 months now so I can finally do my EX-19 and EX-17. I am unable to get on my husband's bank account without an actual NIE card (a number won't suffice). So it has been a long journey and I finally reached out to the Chicago consulate this week who is finally mailing me the marriage cert. The main issue is that what they have online for what is required is 10x different than what they say you need in person. I have gotten to the point of making multiple appointments in the future to make sure I am able to have one quick enough. Normally, I have to wait a month between appointments if not. But that being said, I have found an amazing gestor in Segovia and have all my paperwork ready to start my S.L. He has helped with my decision on either to go autonomo or start an SL. With the taxes, I have chosen SL. I already have my business name ready and once I have my NIE card, I will be able to do the process in three days. Some plus sides! I still have any questions related to how long I can legally work remote getting paid in my American bank account but from my Spanish gestor, he has said 6 months. I would love a solid answer here from an American POV though. Any updates on your end?


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## ceelpia_es (Dec 12, 2021)

americaninsegovia said:


> Hi! Sorry for the late response here as well. To be quite honest, I knew Spanish bureaucracy was slow but not THIS slow. I have gotten nowhere in my journey as a Spanish marriage certificate within 3 months has been my main hurdle. I have been working to get this for 1.5 months now so I can finally do my EX-19 and EX-17. I am unable to get on my husband's bank account without an actual NIE card (a number won't suffice). So it has been a long journey and I finally reached out to the Chicago consulate this week who is finally mailing me the marriage cert. The main issue is that what they have online for what is required is 10x different than what they say you need in person. I have gotten to the point of making multiple appointments in the future to make sure I am able to have one quick enough. Normally, I have to wait a month between appointments if not. But that being said, I have found an amazing gestor in Segovia and have all my paperwork ready to start my S.L. He has helped with my decision on either to go autonomo or start an SL. With the taxes, I have chosen SL. I already have my business name ready and once I have my NIE card, I will be able to do the process in three days. Some plus sides! I still have any questions related to how long I can legally work remote getting paid in my American bank account but from my Spanish gestor, he has said 6 months. I would love a solid answer here from an American POV though. Any updates on your end?


Ahhh, tell me about it. We actually only recently (a few weeks ago) got our libro de familia and Spanish marriage certificate despite applying in June 2021. So that was a full EIGHT MONTHS! We had a similar experience with required documentation at our marriage certificate appointment actually, where I'd printed out the list from the consulate's website and ended up not needing half of the things I'd prepared and having to rush back with 2 or 3 other documents.
I also had my NIE appointment largely off your recommendation, but shockingly I got the NIE after 7 days. I was able to set up a bank account with N26 online with my NIE and US passport, and although it's all virtual I do have a Spanish IBAN which seems to be the key thing required for payments etc. 
Regarding work, everything is still up in the air for me. My company has said that they're working on finding an entity to pay me through in Spain, but for now I'm planning to just carry on as usual as a regular US employee. It might end up becoming a problem but I'm just trying to get through one issue at a time (ha).
Our move date is at the end of the month, so my main focus now that we have our marriage certificate & libro de familia is packing up the house and getting ready to leave. How have you found flat-hunting?


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## americaninsegovia (Jul 26, 2021)

ceelpia_es said:


> Ahhh, tell me about it. We actually only recently (a few weeks ago) got our libro de familia and Spanish marriage certificate despite applying in June 2021. So that was a full EIGHT MONTHS! We had a similar experience with required documentation at our marriage certificate appointment actually, where I'd printed out the list from the consulate's website and ended up not needing half of the things I'd prepared and having to rush back with 2 or 3 other documents.
> I also had my NIE appointment largely off your recommendation, but shockingly I got the NIE after 7 days. I was able to set up a bank account with N26 online with my NIE and US passport, and although it's all virtual I do have a Spanish IBAN which seems to be the key thing required for payments etc.
> Regarding work, everything is still up in the air for me. My company has said that they're working on finding an entity to pay me through in Spain, but for now I'm planning to just carry on as usual as a regular US employee. It might end up becoming a problem but I'm just trying to get through one issue at a time (ha).
> Our move date is at the end of the month, so my main focus now that we have our marriage certificate & libro de familia is packing up the house and getting ready to leave. How have you found flat-hunting?


Wow! You have gotten somewhere and YES NIE was so easy compared to everything else. I would recommend right before you leave, to get another marriage cert because it has to be dated within 3 months of your appointment. If you already know your move date, I would also recommend that you make appointments in advance so you have a few to get going. Here is a site that I book all mine through! Proceso automático para la solicitud de cita previa (administracionespublicas.gob.es) 

You will notice many offices are closed and a lot of the processes are online now. All I can recommend is to get a great gestor to get moving on your paperwork for autonomo. I went through the wringer with my American company and at the end, it was just easier to become their vendor and start my own company. Your company will figure out that with a 3rd party agency, they will pay roughly $1,500 or so in fees each month just to have you as an employee. 

If you have your libro de familia, you are set! One thing I have realized after being here two months is that time is a constraint. I thought I would have already looked at home to rent/buy but we have only seen one! It seems easier to just stay in the village while I finalize all my paperwork and once done, I will begin the journey of looking for a home. But right now, it is similar to the states where prices are raising a bit and it is competitive. Where are you looking to buy? I would recommend getting fotocasa or idealista app to search for home! One thing to note is you are unable to get a home loan if you do not have a year's history of making money in Spain (regardless of how much money you have saved). So we will not be able to get a loan until I am able to finalize my company and get a year's salary. Oh Spanish Bureacracy! I also recommend getting a cheap public health insurance until you get your residency card. I just had my first doctor's appt and it was a BREEZE. Let me know what other questions you have as I am going through it all!


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## ceelpia_es (Dec 12, 2021)

americaninsegovia said:


> Wow! You have gotten somewhere and YES NIE was so easy compared to everything else. I would recommend right before you leave, to get another marriage cert because it has to be dated within 3 months of your appointment. If you already know your move date, I would also recommend that you make appointments in advance so you have a few to get going. Here is a site that I book all mine through! Proceso automático para la solicitud de cita previa (administracionespublicas.gob.es)
> 
> You will notice many offices are closed and a lot of the processes are online now. All I can recommend is to get a great gestor to get moving on your paperwork for autonomo. I went through the wringer with my American company and at the end, it was just easier to become their vendor and start my own company. Your company will figure out that with a 3rd party agency, they will pay roughly $1,500 or so in fees each month just to have you as an employee.
> 
> If you have your libro de familia, you are set! One thing I have realized after being here two months is that time is a constraint. I thought I would have already looked at home to rent/buy but we have only seen one! It seems easier to just stay in the village while I finalize all my paperwork and once done, I will begin the journey of looking for a home. But right now, it is similar to the states where prices are raising a bit and it is competitive. Where are you looking to buy? I would recommend getting fotocasa or idealista app to search for home! One thing to note is you are unable to get a home loan if you do not have a year's history of making money in Spain (regardless of how much money you have saved). So we will not be able to get a loan until I am able to finalize my company and get a year's salary. Oh Spanish Bureacracy! I also recommend getting a cheap public health insurance until you get your residency card. I just had my first doctor's appt and it was a BREEZE. Let me know what other questions you have as I am going through it all!


Your advice/experience is SO helpful. Thank you so much for being willing to get back to me!
I'm going to have my husband work on figuring out the gestor but that is definitely on our list (he'll need to register as an autonomo too). I'll let you know how things progress on the work-front. I'm not sure how your company is set up, but mine already has entities in the EU, so I think they were hoping they could just employ me through one of those (and are figuring out that they can't, haha). To be honest, I just need them to keep me on the payroll for 3-6 months until I have my TIE and then I can go my own way, so we'll see how willing they are to stick with the status quo. Luckily with the way the job market in the US is right now, I think companies are willing to be a lot more flexible to keep employees on.

With regards to homes, we're planning to rent for at least a year before we try to buy, so hopefully that should be a bit simpler than trying to buy. Honestly, home prices in Madrid make no sense to me (why are they SO expensive compared with rents??) so I'm a little intimidated by the housing market anyway. Unfortunately none of our family has room for us to stay long-term so finding a flat will probably be item #1 on our list which will allow us to get the ball rolling on other things that will require us first to have done our empadronamiento. I'm a little worried about proving our income to a landlord but hopefully showing our savings will be sufficient. Regardless I'm loving going through idealista every day! 
I'm signing up for health insurance now through Sanitas, just in case. Although it's probably an unnecessary expense, to begin with I'd rather have it and not need it than the other way around. I'm glad to hear your first visit went so smoothly!


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