# Advice for moving to NZ



## andywendycox

Hello all, and greetings from Atlanta Georgia, USA.

I work in the IT world :ranger:, and have been offered an opportunity to take a position in Wellington, New Zealand. While I'm excited about the opportunity, I have read some negative posts on other blogs, so I'm hoping to get some feedback from anyone ( preferably folks from the US who have moved to NZ ).

Things I've read and/or heard:

1. Outsiders ( especially from the US ) have a very difficult time integrating into the community
2. The cost of living in New Zealand in sky-high, partially due to the large number of imported goods
3. The school system is not the best
4. The lack of quality health care

As a note, I don't believe that folks are trying to make New Zealand sound like a third world country; my primary concern is that I have personally never lived overseas so I am trying to educate myself as much as possible so I can make as informed of a decision as I can.

Thanks everyone for your feedback! If you can provide any links to online resources as well I would really appreciate it...


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## KiwiNomad

As someone who was born in NZ but grew up in the US and have spent 80% of my life overseas until finally coming back to NZ recently.
I can offer the following overview.
1. I think that the only "outsiders" that have a problem fitting in are the ones that take a superior attitude. This is true in any country I've lived in, New Zealand is no different. But be aware that Kiwis are very blunt and their dry humor can be mistaken as sarcasm. My accent doesn't fit so I am immediately classified as foreigner and I admit I feel like I am in another new country.
2. Cost of living. Still undecided on that. Quality items can seen expensive but so far medium quality items can be found reasonably priced and there is a lot of cheap "****" too. But I do miss having real breakfasts and decent size steak!! There are some good posts on this forum about CoL.
3. Education - No kids sono personal experience, but again some good discussions comparing NZ to English levels. None read so far regarding US comparisons.
4. Medical system. I have had no major problems requiring the medical system apart from medical check-up for work. My sister had an emergency recently requiring an ambulance trip to Wellington, ECGs etc and a few nights in hospital, and she said the service was superb. For me I dont hold NZ or Australian dentists in high regard and will get any further work that can be delayed done in the Philippines or Thailand for a fraction of the cost and get a holiday at the same time. In fact I would do any surgery OS if possible as it often costs less than your health ins premium!

So, sit back and wait for a couple more answers and see if there is a pattern.


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## stellachiara

I have lived here for nearly a year. Don't do it. 

1) It is cheap to live here on US dollars, it is expensive to live here in NZ dollars, particularly compared to the costs/wages we are used to in the US. 

2) Tall poppy syndrome is rampant, and it's not just for people who have a superior attitude. It includes anyone who is energetic, outgoing, expressive, overtly happy, or thinks that improving the way things are done is a good thing. If you are not a quiet, introverted person who tends toward depression (and likes it that way), don't even try to live here. 

3) Things here are of low quality, from the houses (which for reasons unknown are built _without insulation_) to the food you buy at the grocery to the appliances you buy at the homewares store. Things are expensive, and then they fall apart, and if you have a problem with that YOU will be considered the unreasonable one. The one place where NZ is absolutely superior to the US, though, is in its meat. Grass-fed beef on a regular basis -- awesome. I will miss that a lot. 

4) I have never heard so many just plain wrong and ignorant things about the US as I have here, and I'm not just talking about uninformed private citizens, I'm talking about in the newspapers and editorials. The last two doozies I read was that McCain was the darling of the Republicans during the 2008 elections, and that liberals love to shop at Wal Mart. There is nothing wrong with not knowing things, but it is always delivered in a sneering fashion, usually pointing out how inferior and crazy America is. Really, really annoying.

5) There is a kind of low self-esteem/arrogance thing going on, where as a culture they feel inferior, but then they get mad and try to say they are superior. They are insecure about their place in the world and it sometimes gets in the way of having a simple interaction. 

Overall, there is just an attitude of be quiet, don't cause trouble, don't try to puff yourself up by coming up with any new ideas, and if something goes wrong, it's probably your fault.

If you think you can live with that, by all means, move to New Zealand. But I am counting down the days until I can go home -- 56 days, 3 hours, 20 minutes and counting...





andywendycox said:


> Hello all, and greetings from Atlanta Georgia, USA.
> 
> I work in the IT world :ranger:, and have been offered an opportunity to take a position in Wellington, New Zealand. While I'm excited about the opportunity, I have read some negative posts on other blogs, so I'm hoping to get some feedback from anyone ( preferably folks from the US who have moved to NZ ).
> 
> Things I've read and/or heard:
> 
> 1. Outsiders ( especially from the US ) have a very difficult time integrating into the community
> 2. The cost of living in New Zealand in sky-high, partially due to the large number of imported goods
> 3. The school system is not the best
> 4. The lack of quality health care
> 
> As a note, I don't believe that folks are trying to make New Zealand sound like a third world country; my primary concern is that I have personally never lived overseas so I am trying to educate myself as much as possible so I can make as informed of a decision as I can.
> 
> Thanks everyone for your feedback! If you can provide any links to online resources as well I would really appreciate it...


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## topcat83

Hi Stella

I'm sorry you've had such a difficult time over here.

I will say that (having read quite a few posts in my time on the forum) that it does seem to be US citizens that have the hardest time. I think that even though we all speak English, the NZ and US cultures and attitudes are different (NZ is much closer to the UK culture). I know that when I worked for a US company in the UK, I couldn't get used to the fact that I was expected to sell myself - as a Brit (and even more so as a Kiwi) you just don't do that, or you're seen as 'getting above yourself' and 'blowing your own trumpet'. Unfortunately that's just the way we are. And Pacific Islanders and Maori are even worse. It is considered extremely bad manners to say good things about yourself! (other people can, but the recipient will go very shy and coy). This means that if you don't know that this is their culture, they can come over very badly in job interviews! 

It may be that your exuberance was misinterpreted in the first place, and it's very difficult to stop things once they're started.

So my advice to anyone is play it cool when you first arrive, and let yourself be accepted before starting to introduce new ideas. It's not that they don't want them, it's just a culture thing.


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## stellachiara

Topcat, thank you so much for your kind post -- every kind word is like water to a thirsty soul!

Interestingly, I have been thinking about exactly what you say here. I think you are right -- it is probably easier for British people to adjust than people from the US. I come across as quiet and rather serene (though I can be forceful as well), but my husband is quite exuberant and outgoing. There is definitely a culture conflict here. Still, even British people are more outgoing than Kiwis -- I feel such relief when I meet a Brit, as I feel that we have more in common than them than with the Kiwis. 





topcat83 said:


> Hi Stella
> 
> I'm sorry you've had such a difficult time over here.
> 
> I will say that (having read quite a few posts in my time on the forum) that it does seem to be US citizens that have the hardest time. I think that even though we all speak English, the NZ and US cultures and attitudes are different (NZ is much closer to the UK culture). I know that when I worked for a US company in the UK, I couldn't get used to the fact that I was expected to sell myself - as a Brit (and even more so as a Kiwi) you just don't do that, or you're seen as 'getting above yourself' and 'blowing your own trumpet'. Unfortunately that's just the way we are. And Pacific Islanders and Maori are even worse. It is considered extremely bad manners to say good things about yourself! (other people can, but the recipient will go very shy and coy). This means that if you don't know that this is their culture, they can come over very badly in job interviews!
> 
> It may be that your exuberance was misinterpreted in the first place, and it's very difficult to stop things once they're started.
> 
> So my advice to anyone is play it cool when you first arrive, and let yourself be accepted before starting to introduce new ideas. It's not that they don't want them, it's just a culture thing.


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## Braulio

andywendycox said:


> Hello all, and greetings from Atlanta Georgia, USA.
> 
> I work in the IT world :ranger:, and have been offered an opportunity to take a position in Wellington, New Zealand. While I'm excited about the opportunity, I have read some negative posts on other blogs, so I'm hoping to get some feedback from anyone ( preferably folks from the US who have moved to NZ ).
> 
> Things I've read and/or heard:
> 
> 1. Outsiders ( especially from the US ) have a very difficult time integrating into the community
> 2. The cost of living in New Zealand in sky-high, partially due to the large number of imported goods
> 3. The school system is not the best
> 4. The lack of quality health care
> 
> As a note, I don't believe that folks are trying to make New Zealand sound like a third world country; my primary concern is that I have personally never lived overseas so I am trying to educate myself as much as possible so I can make as informed of a decision as I can.
> 
> Thanks everyone for your feedback! If you can provide any links to online resources as well I would really appreciate it...


I also worry about these things but my company insists I go. I do not like what I hear about New Zealand and worry about the crime and low education. How do the Kiwis like Germans?


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## topcat83

Braulio said:


> I also worry about these things but my company insists I go. I do not like what I hear about New Zealand and worry about the crime and low education. How do the Kiwis like Germans?


Not a problem - Kiwis are very welcoming to most nationalities. However (and I'm sure we'd be the same if someone tried the same in our own countries) they don't take too kindly to people coming in and telling them that 'other countries do it better'. 

Come with an open mind, play it cool when you first arrive and let the locals get to know you before you try and tell them what to do. They're much more likely to accept you then....

And I hope you'll find that crime and low education are not an issue. We certainly haven't found them to be a problem, and neither have any of our friends.


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## Kea

andywendycox said:


> Hello all, and greetings from Atlanta Georgia, USA.
> 
> I work in the IT world :ranger:, and have been offered an opportunity to take a position in Wellington, New Zealand. While I'm excited about the opportunity, I have read some negative posts on other blogs, so I'm hoping to get some feedback from anyone ( preferably folks from the US who have moved to NZ ).
> 
> Things I've read and/or heard:
> 
> 1. Outsiders ( especially from the US ) have a very difficult time integrating into the community
> 2. The cost of living in New Zealand in sky-high, partially due to the large number of imported goods
> 3. The school system is not the best
> 4. The lack of quality health care
> 
> As a note, I don't believe that folks are trying to make New Zealand sound like a third world country; my primary concern is that I have personally never lived overseas so I am trying to educate myself as much as possible so I can make as informed of a decision as I can.
> 
> Thanks everyone for your feedback! If you can provide any links to online resources as well I would really appreciate it...



I moved to NZ 18 months ago and I've learned to love it/hate it/live it. I'm still relatively new here and on any given day I can either love it or leave it. Mostly my reasons for wanting to leave it boils down to one thing - its so friggen far from friends and family. But, that's my deal and I hear homesickness fades, so I will try to stick to answering your questions. 

1. I'm Canadian and my husband is American. He says he felt more anti-American sentiment living in Canada than he has here. However, I still struggle with the integration/culture shock. The biggest shock is how culturally acceptable racism is, and how sexual harassment is just "harmless jibing". I'm constantly astounded at how they can get away with commercials and radio stints that make fun of orientals/indians/mexicans. No, it's not funny and stereotypical, people. It's just flat out racist. 

2. Cost of living - be prepared to pay A LOT more for every day stuff. I'm also in IT, and I find that my salary doesn't go quite as far as it did in North America. Shoes, books and makeup/skin care is close to tripled in price. Food and groceries, gas... they still make me flinch. My husband and I averaged $200 a week at the supermarket before we started changing our shopping habits. We now go to a separate butcher, grocers, and supermarket and average $160 a week. Electricity bill for a 1 bedroom apartment averages $130 (summer) and $180 (winter) per month! Going to a movie costs $15.50 for adults, a tall latte and a muffin costs $9 at Starbucks, a Wendy's baconator meal costs around $12. An oil change costs $90. Although gas prices are higher, you'll probably end up driving a lot less. Wellington is tiny compared to Atlanta...you may experience more culture shock from moving to a smaller town than from actually moving to a different country. However, Wellington has its appeal. It's vibrant for it's size, and has the most amount of public art (and free museums/exhibits) I've ever seen in a city. 

3. School system - sorry, no kids (yet). But, my husband is in University and can expect a level of education in his Bachelor's (Physiotherapy) that surpasses Masters programs in the States. Tertiary education here is excellent. 

4. Medical system - I've had to go to a few medical clinics at $80 a pop before I became a resident, and $65 afterwards. You don't automatically get health insurance or any other perks from employers, which was a big adjustment for me. You'll have to pay for insurance or out of your own pocket for dentists and extras like massage, physio, chiro. All medical services incurred due to accidents are free. My husband sprained his ankle really badly and thought he could have broken it...we went to the Emergency room, he got the all clear with digital x-rays, a set of new crutches and pain pills all within 40 minutes. It wasn't a serious problem but it was fast service, and the people were great. I can't comment on the quality of healthcare for other issues, simply because I haven't experienced it. 

As for crime, I don't think its any worse than many parts North America. We had our car window smashed in and someone attempted to steal it in Auckland. But, I also had my car window smashed in Vancouver. Like any place, you just learn to avoid the dodgy areas. 

So, it comes down to what you are willing to let go and give up. You WILL take a hit in standard of living and the "niceties". You WILL live in drafty damp place and will be in a constant state of cold for half the year. You WILL have to adjust your habits. Shops close at 5:30 on weekdays and many aren't open Sundays, so you end up doing all your errands and shopping on Saturdays. Eating out (even fast food) is expensive. I've learned to cook and bake, mostly because you can't buy stuff like perogies here and because I refuse to pay $12 for an apple pie, but also because shops are closed by 5:30 anyways. 

If you take advantage of what New Zealand has to offer, what you WILL gain is an amazing adventure. The landscape is a mixture of Queensland, California, Hawaii, Middle Earth, Oregon Coast, Ireland, the Rockies, and even Mars. You may not be able to afford to travel outside of the country often, but there's lots to see and do here. There's a reason why tourists love it. If you're willing to adapt, you'll be fine. Just don't expect the same lifestyle you had in America.


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## topcat83

Kea said:


> I moved to NZ 18 months ago and I've learned to love it/hate it/live it. I'm still relatively new here and on any given day I can either love it or leave it. Mostly my reasons for wanting to leave it boils down to one thing - its so friggen far from friends and family. But, that's my deal and I hear homesickness fades, so I will try to stick to answering your questions.
> 
> 1. I'm Canadian and my husband is American. He says he felt more anti-American sentiment living in Canada than he has here. However, I still struggle with the integration/culture shock. The biggest shock is how culturally acceptable racism is, and how sexual harassment is just "harmless jibing". I'm constantly astounded at how they can get away with commercials and radio stints that make fun of orientals/indians/mexicans. No, it's not funny and stereotypical, people. It's just flat out racist.
> 
> 2. Cost of living - be prepared to pay A LOT more for every day stuff. I'm also in IT, and I find that my salary doesn't go quite as far as it did in North America. Shoes, books and makeup/skin care is close to tripled in price. Food and groceries, gas... they still make me flinch. My husband and I averaged $200 a week at the supermarket before we started changing our shopping habits. We now go to a separate butcher, grocers, and supermarket and average $160 a week. Electricity bill for a 1 bedroom apartment averages $130 (summer) and $180 (winter) per month! Going to a movie costs $15.50 for adults, a tall latte and a muffin costs $9 at Starbucks, a Wendy's baconator meal costs around $12. An oil change costs $90. Although gas prices are higher, you'll probably end up driving a lot less. Wellington is tiny compared to Atlanta...you may experience more culture shock from moving to a smaller town than from actually moving to a different country. However, Wellington has its appeal. It's vibrant for it's size, and has the most amount of public art (and free museums/exhibits) I've ever seen in a city.
> 
> 3. School system - sorry, no kids (yet). But, my husband is in University and can expect a level of education in his Bachelor's (Physiotherapy) that surpasses Masters programs in the States. Tertiary education here is excellent.
> 
> 4. Medical system - I've had to go to a few medical clinics at $80 a pop before I became a resident, and $65 afterwards. You don't automatically get health insurance or any other perks from employers, which was a big adjustment for me. You'll have to pay for insurance or out of your own pocket for dentists and extras like massage, physio, chiro. All medical services incurred due to accidents are free. My husband sprained his ankle really badly and thought he could have broken it...we went to the Emergency room, he got the all clear with digital x-rays, a set of new crutches and pain pills all within 40 minutes. It wasn't a serious problem but it was fast service, and the people were great. I can't comment on the quality of healthcare for other issues, simply because I haven't experienced it.
> 
> As for crime, I don't think its any worse than many parts North America. We had our car window smashed in and someone attempted to steal it in Auckland. But, I also had my car window smashed in Vancouver. Like any place, you just learn to avoid the dodgy areas.
> 
> So, it comes down to what you are willing to let go and give up. You WILL take a hit in standard of living and the "niceties". You WILL live in drafty damp place and will be in a constant state of cold for half the year. You WILL have to adjust your habits. Shops close at 5:30 on weekdays and many aren't open Sundays, so you end up doing all your errands and shopping on Saturdays. Eating out (even fast food) is expensive. I've learned to cook and bake, mostly because you can't buy stuff like perogies here and because I refuse to pay $12 for an apple pie, but also because shops are closed by 5:30 anyways.
> 
> If you take advantage of what New Zealand has to offer, what you WILL gain is an amazing adventure. The landscape is a mixture of Queensland, California, Hawaii, Middle Earth, Oregon Coast, Ireland, the Rockies, and even Mars. You may not be able to afford to travel outside of the country often, but there's lots to see and do here. There's a reason why tourists love it. If you're willing to adapt, you'll be fine. Just don't expect the same lifestyle you had in America.


Thanks Kea - a great post. And a really good balanced view of life in our beautiful (but far from perfect) country.


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## andywendycox

Thanks all for the incredibly valuable posts! :clap2:

Keep'em coming!


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## kevin04

Very interesting to read all these views about NZ. 
We are considering moving to the Auckland region, 
are there any 24hr shops open for Groceries? It's not a deal breaker, but even when we lived in Iceland there were 2 shops in Reykjavik that were open 24hrs a day. 

Also, how expensive is Golf? Not looking to play expensive Courses, but just your standard munci Course of a decent nature. Are clubs expensive? 

And finally, how do Kiwi's sociliase? Is it pub quizs, to the Pub on a Friday after work with workmates, or even mid-week or do people not really do this? 
One thing I learnt when I lived Iceland was, that most folk didn't really go for a few pints midweek - they would wait until the Weekend and get hammered. 

thanks in advance,


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## topcat83

kevin04 said:


> Very interesting to read all these views about NZ.
> We are considering moving to the Auckland region,
> are there any 24hr shops open for Groceries? It's not a deal breaker, but even when we lived in Iceland there were 2 shops in Reykjavik that were open 24hrs a day.
> 
> Also, how expensive is Golf? Not looking to play expensive Courses, but just your standard munci Course of a decent nature. Are clubs expensive?
> 
> And finally, how do Kiwi's sociliase? Is it pub quizs, to the Pub on a Friday after work with workmates, or even mid-week or do people not really do this?
> One thing I learnt when I lived Iceland was, that most folk didn't really go for a few pints midweek - they would wait until the Weekend and get hammered.
> 
> thanks in advance,


Hi there - yes, absolutely - although these are mainly a couple of the big ones in Central Auckland. Normally supermarkets will be open at 7-8 am and close anywhere between 8 pm and midnight.

I think you'll find golf a reasonable price. We don't play (yet) but there are a number of clubs in our area, and they are well attended. Not just by the rich, either. They're much more casual than the UK too - I wouldn't wear a bikini round one (but then I personally wouldn't wear a bikini!) but certainly shorts are acceptable.

Socialising - all that you mentioned. We go to a Pub quiz every Tuesday, and are members of a number of clubs including a Scuba diving, Car and Theatre group. Most companies have an 'end of month' Friday drink (and some have an 'end of week' every week!) For some reason, Thursday seems to be night for 'hitting the town'. 

And in our group, we meet at peoples houses for barbecues, or go for walks and picnics in the local regional parks.


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## kevin04

Thanks for that, Topcat. 

We are still looking at options and NZ seems very high on the list. Having read both the positives and negatives, I think it looks a place that we could be happy in. 
Easy going people who enjoy walking, beaches, and the water. Outdoor life. We are really chilled out/laid back people.

Joining Social clubs sounds a good option to meet people as well. The Golf being a lot more informal sounds excellent as well. Coming from Scotland, there are certainly loads of Clubs up here with their old school rules that even discourage regular folk from playing, not saying should wear Football tops on the course, but a bit more casual sounds good. 

Also, how big a game is Squash in NZ? Do people play it quite reguarly? 

Many thanks for your help so far.


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## topcat83

kevin04 said:


> Thanks for that, Topcat.
> 
> We are still looking at options and NZ seems very high on the list. Having read both the positives and negatives, I think it looks a place that we could be happy in.
> Easy going people who enjoy walking, beaches, and the water. Outdoor life. We are really chilled out/laid back people.
> 
> Joining Social clubs sounds a good option to meet people as well. The Golf being a lot more informal sounds excellent as well. Coming from Scotland, there are certainly loads of Clubs up here with their old school rules that even discourage regular folk from playing, not saying should wear Football tops on the course, but a bit more casual sounds good.
> 
> Also, how big a game is Squash in NZ? Do people play it quite reguarly?
> 
> Many thanks for your help so far.


There are squash clubs here - my colleague at work is something on the committee of one.
I'll ask her where you can get more details.


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## Equestrimom

*We're going too... I think*



andywendycox said:


> Thanks all for the incredibly valuable posts! :clap2:
> 
> Keep'em coming!


Hi!
My family and I are looking to relocate to New Plymouth from Kentucky in December. I've found a lot of interesting feedback on this site but I guess we won't really know til we get there. My husband and I are going to visit in July/Aug for 12 days. My husband has a job already there to start in January with a 2 year contract. We have 6 children, all who are excited except for our 14 year old daughter. I'm praying she will have an open mind to give it a chance.
I was wondering if you were still considering the move and where you are in the application process. We're gathering the last of the paperwork to send in by mid-Sept. Hopefully we'll get it in well before that deadline. Perhaps we'll be walking thru this adventure about the same time...


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## jenswaters

andywendycox said:


> Thanks all for the incredibly valuable posts! :clap2:
> 
> Keep'em coming!


Hi

Just thought I would add my experiences into the mix too, especially from an education perspective. I have travelled quite extensively, and experienced Carribean, American, English, and now NZ cultures and attitudes, as well as the education systems.

Regarding fitting in and "tall poppy syndrom" (I LOVE that phrase...never heard it before) - my experiences have shown that NZ and Pacific Island cultures are that of respect and almost a proud humbleness regarding self-promotion. It simply isn't done here, and can take a certain amount of adjusting too. I am certainly no-one who has much to shout about in their life, but when I do mention the things I have done (as a statement of fact, rather than boasting) I see that some people struggle to understand that it is just fact, and not self-promotion. Having worked around America and Americans, where it is very much expected that people promote themselves and their achievements, I can see why there would be a difficulty here. It is simply a CULTURE issue, rather than anything else. Just keep this in mind, and you cannot go far wrong.

Houses - I personally don't find all housing to be sheds. I understand why people don't understand houses not having insulation, but the Government schemes and high influx of immigrants means that these issues are now being addressed, slowly. Ways around this are that many homes now have heatpumps (think A/C and heat unit combined) and burners. Newer homes are being built with these issues in mind.

Education - I am working as a secondary teacher now. I have done all over the place, and have been a lecturer in training teachers and pedagogy (in fact, different education systems are a huge interest of mine). The system here is a credit system, whereby students accumulate credits each year, and cannot progress onto the next year without the right number of credits. Students can leave school at 16 (Y11 here), but can choose to stay on until Y13 (18 years old). As such, you tend to find that there can be a certain level of lethargy amongst some students at lower levels and ages. This can affect less-motivated learners. But you can combat this by choosing your school carefully. Check out TKI - Schools for information about schools in your area. The decile rating is relative to the affluence of the school - the higher the number the more affluent the school/area (theoretically). For me, my son is very bright, but can be lazy, so when it comes to school time, we will make sure he is in a school that will push him a bit harder.

I personally love it here, but I cannot comment on Wellington as I live in Tauranga. My advice would be to come here open-minded if you do come. Try to avoid comparisons to the US, as you will find them soooooo different that it is likely to make you homesick and a little overwhelmed (although some comparisons are inevitable). You get more for your dollar in the US than NZ, but money isn't as much of a driving force here.

Good luck

Jen


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## Chris&Denise

Have an open mind and come with a sense of adventure and you'll be fine. It is my personal opinion that living in one place all your life is like having a large wonderful book and reading just one page....


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## Saffiephotos

Read the comments and I tend to agree with most. 
NZ is very expensive to live in. The is no real great take aways!! 
They call themselves a 1st world country, but the only thing that makes them first world country is the personal safety!
I come from South Africa, classified as a 3rd world country, but SA has way better technology, take aways, roads! and many many more. The only thing SA lacks is safety! 
When you want to move to NZ think twice, I would have been back in SA if it wasn't for the fact that I don't have any money to move again.


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## Chris&Denise

stellachiara said:


> I have lived here for nearly a year. Don't do it.
> 
> 1) It is cheap to live here on US dollars, it is expensive to live here in NZ dollars, particularly compared to the costs/wages we are used to in the US.
> 
> 2) Tall poppy syndrome is rampant, and it's not just for people who have a superior attitude. It includes anyone who is energetic, outgoing, expressive, overtly happy, or thinks that improving the way things are done is a good thing. If you are not a quiet, introverted person who tends toward depression (and likes it that way), don't even try to live here.
> 
> 3) Things here are of low quality, from the houses (which for reasons unknown are built _without insulation_) to the food you buy at the grocery to the appliances you buy at the homewares store. Things are expensive, and then they fall apart, and if you have a problem with that YOU will be considered the unreasonable one. The one place where NZ is absolutely superior to the US, though, is in its meat. Grass-fed beef on a regular basis -- awesome. I will miss that a lot.
> 
> 4) I have never heard so many just plain wrong and ignorant things about the US as I have here, and I'm not just talking about uninformed private citizens, I'm talking about in the newspapers and editorials. The last two doozies I read was that McCain was the darling of the Republicans during the 2008 elections, and that liberals love to shop at Wal Mart. There is nothing wrong with not knowing things, but it is always delivered in a sneering fashion, usually pointing out how inferior and crazy America is. Really, really annoying.
> 
> 5) There is a kind of low self-esteem/arrogance thing going on, where as a culture they feel inferior, but then they get mad and try to say they are superior. They are insecure about their place in the world and it sometimes gets in the way of having a simple interaction.
> 
> Overall, there is just an attitude of be quiet, don't cause trouble, don't try to puff yourself up by coming up with any new ideas, and if something goes wrong, it's probably your fault.
> 
> If you think you can live with that, by all means, move to New Zealand. But I am counting down the days until I can go home -- 56 days, 3 hours, 20 minutes and counting...


Thats interesting. Actually I think that much of the opportunity in the country that I've found rampant is that Kiwis are always looking for new and better ways of doing things. It is impossible to develop new technology or otherwise without questioning the status quo.

Kiwis are certainly understated compared to their American counterparts and it is for this reason I think that expats from the UK tend to fit in more easily. This however has nothing to do with creating new ideas.

As far as ignorance of the wider world. I couldn't disagree more. Sure many people have no idea about the states or elsewhere however on the whole Kiwis have a far better understanding of the wider world simply because they are so isolated it is imperative to learn about the rest of the world if you are to compete.

I suspect that you have lived in the US and nowhere else and then moved to NZ. I suggest you live in multiple different countries and then compare. For eg go back to the states and "pretend" that you are a kiwi. Then see what level of ignorance exists with your fellow Americans.

This is not a pro kiwi anti American slant but merely the reality of the world we live in. Furthermore the entire idea of categorizing oneself according to a particular place (America, Japan, UK, NZ whatever) is increasingly meaningless in the world we live in. Best to wake up and move forward.

I personally don't recognize nationality as I think it is largely a waste of time. I value people individually regardless of where they happen to have been born or grown up. This makes for easy interactions all over the world and assists in understanding others without a blind mindset that what you know is superior to others.


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## Guest

oh!! so what about people who lived and came from the third world???!!!


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## CanterburyChick

I think there's been some good balanced posts here. New Zealand isn't Utopia but it does have some wonderful benefits.

There is always a flip side to anywhere you live. Coming from the UK there just isn't the same amount of choice in food, clothing etc. I did find this quite hard to start with but in time accepted that there isn't as much choice because there are only just over 4 million people living here as compared to some 76 million in the UK. As I keep on saying in my posts a lot is down to supply & demand.

I have always found the medical system to be really good here. I recently went through something and I have to say they couldn't have helped me enough - I couldn't fault my GP and the excellent service of St Georges hospital in CHCH. I have regular blood tests and these generally are taken one day and I get the results the next (posted to my home!). This outstrips, in my opinion, any medical service I had in the UK (sorry can't speak for the US).

As for fitting in, it takes time - I agree with Top Cat that the Kiwi's and the Brits are more alike than the Kiwi's and the Americans. However even as a Brit coming to live here it is a different culture than that of the UK so I would envisage (having had many holidays to the US) that as an American you would find it a bit more of a culture shock.

In my humble opinion I do believe that Americans are a positive nation and very much promote themselves far more than a Brit or a Kiwi would. This might be seen as being 'too big for their boots', which for some, might have caused them not to have fitted in. Kiwi's (again in my humble opinion), are not show off'y people nor do they like to brag about something good they have done - so all of us foreigners with or different ways has been a culture shock to them and they probably are trying to protect the New Zealand that they remembered.

Having said that I do now have a wide circle of friends of all nationalities which is great and we all get on! You have to work at blending in, it does take time and I still, after 5 years of being here miss my friends and family, but I do feel now I have made some good friends here as well.

New Zealand could learn a lot from other cultures but it also still needs to protect its heritage as well. With more people choosing to migrate to New Zealand it will start to expand its culture (hopefully in a good way and not being taken over by us foreigners!).

So I guess what I am trying to say is come and try living in New Zealand and hopefully it will work out well for you & I for one do like Americans so you have at least you'll have 1 ally here 

Good luck


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## christopherm

Kea said:


> 2. Cost of living - be prepared to pay A LOT more for every day stuff. I'm also in IT, and I find that my salary doesn't go quite as far as it did in North America. Shoes, books and makeup/skin care is close to tripled in price. Food and groceries, gas... they still make me flinch. My husband and I averaged $200 a week at the supermarket before we started changing our shopping habits. We now go to a separate butcher, grocers, and supermarket and average $160 a week. Electricity bill for a 1 bedroom apartment averages $130 (summer) and $180 (winter) per month! Going to a movie costs $15.50 for adults, a tall latte and a muffin costs $9 at Starbucks, a Wendy's baconator meal costs around $12. An oil change costs $90. Although gas prices are higher, you'll probably end up driving a lot less. Wellington is tiny compared to Atlanta...you may experience more culture shock from moving to a smaller town than from actually moving to a different country. However, Wellington has its appeal. It's vibrant for it's size, and has the most amount of public art (and free museums/exhibits) I've ever seen in a city.


Kea: Thank you for a very informative post. It is exactly the kind of information I have been looking for. A good breakdown of the costs for basic needs. I guess the question I have is are your amounts in NZD, CAD, or USD?


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## Gimme5

Chris&Denise said:


> Have an open mind and come with a sense of adventure and you'll be fine. It is my personal opinion that living in one place all your life is like having a large wonderful book and reading just one page....


Why do people also say "Have an open mind and come with a sense of adventure..." when they really mean "Are you out of your mind! Come but be prepared to take some ****!"


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## Gimme5

stellachiara said:


> I have lived here for nearly a year. Don't do it.
> 
> 1) It is cheap to live here on US dollars, it is expensive to live here in NZ dollars, particularly compared to the costs/wages we are used to in the US.
> 
> 2) Tall poppy syndrome is rampant, and it's not just for people who have a superior attitude. It includes anyone who is energetic, outgoing, expressive, overtly happy, or thinks that improving the way things are done is a good thing. If you are not a quiet, introverted person who tends toward depression (and likes it that way), don't even try to live here.
> 
> 3) Things here are of low quality, from the houses (which for reasons unknown are built _without insulation_) to the food you buy at the grocery to the appliances you buy at the homewares store. Things are expensive, and then they fall apart, and if you have a problem with that YOU will be considered the unreasonable one. The one place where NZ is absolutely superior to the US, though, is in its meat. Grass-fed beef on a regular basis -- awesome. I will miss that a lot.
> 
> 4) I have never heard so many just plain wrong and ignorant things about the US as I have here, and I'm not just talking about uninformed private citizens, I'm talking about in the newspapers and editorials. The last two doozies I read was that McCain was the darling of the Republicans during the 2008 elections, and that liberals love to shop at Wal Mart. There is nothing wrong with not knowing things, but it is always delivered in a sneering fashion, usually pointing out how inferior and crazy America is. Really, really annoying.
> 
> 5) There is a kind of low self-esteem/arrogance thing going on, where as a culture they feel inferior, but then they get mad and try to say they are superior. They are insecure about their place in the world and it sometimes gets in the way of having a simple interaction.
> 
> Overall, there is just an attitude of be quiet, don't cause trouble, don't try to puff yourself up by coming up with any new ideas, and if something goes wrong, it's probably your fault.
> 
> If you think you can live with that, by all means, move to New Zealand. But I am counting down the days until I can go home -- 56 days, 3 hours, 20 minutes and counting...


Can't agree more especially No.5.


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## topcat83

Gimme5 said:


> Why do people also say "Have an open mind and come with a sense of adventure..." when they really mean "Are you out of your mind! Come but be prepared to take some ****!"


Your interpretation, Gimme5. Not the interpretation i'd put on it at all....


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## Gimme5

topcat83 said:


> Not a problem - Kiwis are very welcoming to most nationalities. However (and I'm sure we'd be the same if someone tried the same in our own countries) they don't take too kindly to people coming in and telling them that 'other countries do it better'.
> 
> Come with an open mind, play it cool when you first arrive and let the locals get to know you before you try and tell them what to do. They're much more likely to accept you then....
> 
> And I hope you'll find that crime and low education are not an issue. We certainly haven't found them to be a problem, and neither have any of our friends.


"Kiwis are very welcoming to most nationalities". 

Care to enlighten which are the few nationalities Kiwis are not welcoming to?


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## topcat83

Gimme5 said:


> "Kiwis are very welcoming to most nationalities".
> 
> Care to enlighten which are the few nationalities Kiwis are not welcoming to?


Methinks you're nit-picking, Gimme5. It's a figure of speech...


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## Gimme5

topcat83 said:


> Methinks you're nit-picking, Gimme5. It's a figure of speech...


Just that I beg to differ on your assessment and since you're always saying how great it is that this country is so un-PC and you can say anything you want without worry that it might be taken the wrong way so thought I'll just give you the chance.


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## FrancisJames

> "Kiwis are very welcoming to most nationalities".


That is a very broad generalisation, it also depends on what you mean by "very welcoming. " 

It does depend on where you go, who you associate with and how much money you're spending. I remember some places in NZ where I daren't speak for fear of giving away my non-Kiwi status


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