# Company transfer to Australia



## jersey2oz (Aug 19, 2009)

My husband's company has asked us to consider a transfer to Australia from Charlotte NC. We have two school-aged children. We are trying to decide on Sydney or Melbourne. Is there a significant cost of living/quality of life difference? What about schools? We will likely have an employer-sponsored permanent resident visa, so I think we are eligible for free goverment schools. How do I go about finding a good school in a good neighborhood we can afford? We plan to rent... I will not hav the opportunity to visit before we come. Other than moving us and a COLA, the company will not be providing what used to be considered a standard "expat package" - we are on our own... Thanks!


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## rangola1 (Jul 14, 2009)

Regarding schools in Australia........u can go thro the below websites

The Australian Schools Directory – The only online guide to all Australian Schools

Department of Education and Early Childhood Development - Department of Education and Early Childhood Development
Schools Online: Home Page


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## eva-usa (May 14, 2009)

rangola1 said:


> Regarding schools in Australia........u can go thro the below websites
> 
> The Australian Schools Directory – The only online guide to all Australian Schools
> 
> ...


On the same topic , which one is better US schools or schools in Australia? 

I also got PR for Oz & planning to move frm US.


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## jersey2oz (Aug 19, 2009)

*US vs Au schools*



eva-usa said:


> On the same topic , which one is better US schools or schools in Australia?
> 
> I also got PR for Oz & planning to move frm US.


Thanks for the links!!

That's a great question... I don't know. This will be an interesting journey. When and where are you relocating? We have been given the choice between Sydney and Melbourne and we are aiming for 1/1/10 so the kids can start school at the end of January, 2010.


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## eva-usa (May 14, 2009)

jersey2oz said:


> Thanks for the links!!
> 
> That's a great question... I don't know. This will be an interesting journey. When and where are you relocating? We have been given the choice between Sydney and Melbourne and we are aiming for 1/1/10 so the kids can start school at the end of January, 2010.


Well in my case I have job in USA & if I migrate then have to arrange job first in Ausi. I would love to be in Melbourne but Sydney is the other choice. But other then this two city , I am not considering any other places.

btw I am planning sometimes next year before may '2010.


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## Dolly (Feb 17, 2008)

Hi there,

I can't recollect a company sponsored visa that will give you PR straightaway...do you know exactly which visa you will be coming over on?

Even a government school will have some sort of fee.....albeit a lot less than a private school. Our fees are $450 per child per year.

If you have a look at the sticky at the top of the forum page "please read: helpful websites...." you'll find some real estate links. It's just a case of picking where you want to live and then looking at the suburbs. Google maps is a brilliant website so if you see a property you like the look of, stick it in google maps and you can get a 'street view' of where the property is, what the area actually looks like etc.

Also, have a look at the cityhobo website for details on some suburbs of Sydney and Melbourne. You'll find Sydney just a little bit more expensive than Melbourne.

Any other questions, just ask away.

Dolly


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## jersey2oz (Aug 19, 2009)

Dolly said:


> Hi there,
> 
> I can't recollect a company sponsored visa that will give you PR straightaway...do you know exactly which visa you will be coming over on?
> 
> ...


Thanks - I do not know the type of visa we will have yet, but I believe that as far as the company is concerned this is a permanent transfer - when looking at the poossible types of visas - and there seem to be many!! - it seemed like we would fit under "employer-sponsored permanent resident" but who knows - the relocation has not yet been fully negotiated. That is one big reason I am trying to find out about costs for school and neighborhoods - we want to make sure we know what we need to ask for. It appears as though an international student living in Sydney on any sort of temporary visa would be required to pay significant fees, as in $11,000 per year. But a student with any type of PR would be subject only to the fees that Australian citizens pay, in the less than $1000 range. Have you ever heard of this?

With regard to finding a neighborhood... we have looked at google maps and also have street maps and public transport maps that my husband uses when he is there on business. His office will be in North Sydney, so we are focusing our search there. I have found a few neighborhoods that look like they would be convenient and we have started looking at real estate.... But...

How does one select a neighborhood from the other side of the world?? In Charlotte NC, where we live today, where you live determines which school you go to, and all schools are NOT created equally. We are fortunate to attend a school with tons of parent involvement, which of course means plenty of volunteers and extra money when needed, great teachers, safe school, etc - but less than 3 miles from my house, there is a school that has a very disadvantaged population - less desirable school, fewer if any parents involved, less experienced teachers, not as safe. I would not dream of sending my kids there. But if you were not from here, there is no way you would know that. So I guess my question is, are there huge disparities in the quality of education between schools? Or are all the schools just as good as the others? 

Thanks - I hope I am making sense!!


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## Dolly (Feb 17, 2008)

I know how incredibly difficult it is to try to find somewhere to live when you have absolutely no idea about areas etc. The only thing I can say is do your research on schools first, that will then define where you live as a lot of schools have strict catchment areas (as it did for us). But it will still be pot luck if you find a good neighbourhood. If you do find an area ask the question on here as to what it's like....you'll then be able to get some firsthand experience of the area.

You will get good schools, OK schools and bad schools - as with any other part of the world. The key is to research, research and more research and hope you've got it right. Before you move over, contact the schools you are interested in to make appointments to visit. Only then when you can actually walk around the school will you get a feel for it.

When you mention $11K school fees, is that for uni fees? My son will be starting uni in February and we won't be eligible for the HECS because we are not Citizens yet - so instead of paying $6K per year we'll end up paying $15K per year (mind you at least my son won't end up with paying off a huge student loan so I guess that's a bonus!!!). School fees from kindy to high school will vary depending on if it's a private or government run school. Private fees can be anywhere from $1.5K to $5K per term (and there are 4 terms per year). Our sons go to a government run school (public) and fees are $450 per year. 

If you can get yourself a copy of the UBD for the area you have chosen....it's not only a street map but also has schools/hospitals and lots more. In Melbourne there's also an equivalent called Melways, there is also a Sydney equivalent. I used these as my bible as I could work out where schools were, where the school zone was and then check out rentals online in that area.

HTH
Dolly


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## jersey2oz (Aug 19, 2009)

Dolly said:


> I know how incredibly difficult it is to try to find somewhere to live when you have absolutely no idea about areas etc. The only thing I can say is do your research on schools first, that will then define where you live as a lot of schools have strict catchment areas (as it did for us). But it will still be pot luck if you find a good neighbourhood. If you do find an area ask the question on here as to what it's like....you'll then be able to get some firsthand experience of the area.
> 
> You will get good schools, OK schools and bad schools - as with any other part of the world. The key is to research, research and more research and hope you've got it right. Before you move over, contact the schools you are interested in to make appointments to visit. Only then when you can actually walk around the school will you get a feel for it.
> 
> ...


Thanks - this is so useful. I will have to check - maybe I was looking at uni fees... what is a UBD and how do I get one? Do you live in Sydney? We will have the choice between Melbourne and Sydney - my husband has travelled to both and thinks Melbourne would be a better place for our family, but Sydney makes much for sense for him work-wise. We left the New York City area life 15 years ago for a smaller, for family-friendly much less expensive city but gave up alot in terms of culture. How would you compare Sydney and Melbourne? Thanks - I really appreciate your thoughts!!!!

Liz


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## amaslam (Sep 25, 2008)

Hi Liz:


ex-NYer living in Sydney for the last 6 yrs. You do need to know if you're coming on a temp visa (457) or a PR visa. If coming on a temp visa you will pay school fees for all your kids whether in public or private ($10k per year per child in Sydney+) and also all your medical insurance expenses. If you are on PR then you get access to the public schools at the resident levels and also full access to Medicare.

UBD, Melways, are big street guides (Road Atlases) and you definitely need to get one when you get here. For example in Melbourne many businesses list their Melways reference (page xxx, K7). And in Sydney it's hard to find a straight road so you need that big atlas (even carry it around for the first few months to get a feel for the suburb you're living in). You can get one in any Newsagency (like a convenience store) or Bookstore.

As for culture Melbourne has more cultural events and Sydney is more beachy. Of course some members are convinced AU is bereft of culture and living in the past while most of us are "it's just more laid back". Can't compare to NY at all, NY definitely has much much more in that regard.

Sydney vs. Melbourne is a classic question, and it really doesn't have one answer. It depends on what you like. 



jersey2oz said:


> Thanks - this is so useful. I will have to check - maybe I was looking at uni fees... what is a UBD and how do I get one? Do you live in Sydney? We will have the choice between Melbourne and Sydney - my husband has travelled to both and thinks Melbourne would be a better place for our family, but Sydney makes much for sense for him work-wise. We left the New York City area life 15 years ago for a smaller, for family-friendly much less expensive city but gave up alot in terms of culture. How would you compare Sydney and Melbourne? Thanks - I really appreciate your thoughts!!!!
> 
> Liz


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## jersey2oz (Aug 19, 2009)

amaslam said:


> Hi Liz:
> 
> 
> ex-NYer living in Sydney for the last 6 yrs. You do need to know if you're coming on a temp visa (457) or a PR visa. If coming on a temp visa you will pay school fees for all your kids whether in public or private ($10k per year per child in Sydney+) and also all your medical insurance expenses. If you are on PR then you get access to the public schools at the resident levels and also full access to Medicare.
> ...


Thanks - this is helpful!!


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## jersey2oz (Aug 19, 2009)

Thanks for all these great thoughts and comments. It is so useful!

Liz


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## family of 4 (Aug 24, 2009)

Hi Liz,

My family is also considering a move from the US to AUS this winter. I grew up in the south (TN with family in NC) and have also made the family friendly move from big (San Francisco) to small (Minneapolis). I married an Australian about 10 years ago, so have had a chance to spend a bit of time in both Sydney and Melbourne in our annual trans-pacific treks. I thought might we have enough similarities that my experiences visiting Melbourne and Sydney might be useful to you (but definitely not a substitute for info from folks who live in either place!). 

My impression is that Sydney, while visually similar to San Francisco, is culturally more akin to Los Angeles. My husband, familiar with all three places, generally agrees. Melbourne seems the most European of the Australian cities - more San Francisco in feel, as it is very neighborhood-oriented, with each area having its own distinct feel. Weather in Sydney is more reliable (think spring/summer year round). Melbourne weather has a few more twists, though the changes don't always come seasonally, they can come within a week's time, so I pack both tank tops and sweaters no matter what time of year we visit. Personally, I love the more European neighborhood feel of Melbourne over the more body/fashion-conscious beachy feel of Sydney. But, as someone's earlier post says, it's a matter of personal preference, and the Sydney/Melbourne debate seems to be a common one among Aussies.

If you're able to locate any good websites or sources for school-specific information, I'd be interested in learning about them. My husband's inclination for our potential move (which is to Hobart - yikes! - not exactly one of my short list Australian cities) is to start with private schools. While he thinks there are good state (public) school options, he thinks it may be an easier transition from the US schools I'm accustomed to, as our two kids go to private schools in MN, and the private schools have more information available on the web. I was surprised to find that private school tuition for my 5 y.o. (who is going starting kindergarten this year) is much cheaper in Hobart than the one she's attending in the US ($10k at Hobart's most spendy school vs $18k per year in MN). These #s may be skewed for Hobart (a friend of ours spends closer to $18k/year for her kids in Sydney private schools), but meant to suggest that private schools may be less expensive than you think and worth looking into. If you're open to Catholic schools, my husband says there are usually some good options for less $$, similar to the US.

Hope this helps,

Lynn


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## jersey2oz (Aug 19, 2009)

family of 4 said:


> Hi Liz,
> 
> My family is also considering a move from the US to AUS this winter. I grew up in the south (TN with family in NC) and have also made the family friendly move from big (San Francisco) to small (Minneapolis). I married an Australian about 10 years ago, so have had a chance to spend a bit of time in both Sydney and Melbourne in our annual trans-pacific treks. I thought might we have enough similarities that my experiences visiting Melbourne and Sydney might be useful to you (but definitely not a substitute for info from folks who live in either place!).
> 
> ...


Wow - Hobart! My kids want to know if you can see penguins there. My kids and I were very curious about Hobart so we did a little research -- I am surprised the weather is not colder there! Good luck with your search. I have not found any one website that has all the information that I need. I have been working with a map of both Sydney and Melbourne. For Sydney, I have been looking up the suburbs surrounding North Sydney on the internet and compiling the information I find. There is one website I found that ranks all schools, public and private, but so far I have only been able to find secondary schools. I have been cross-referencing the map to find schools in towns near where I want to be, then I search the internet for a corresponding primary school and go directly to the website. It's a little cumbersome but I am getting a ton of information! The site is

Who's Who of School Rankings

In Melbourne, there seems to be a better, more consolidated way to get info on the schools - I can't find the website - I will look for it and reply again.

Good luck with your search!

Liz


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## livinginlafornow (Sep 7, 2009)

You need to be sure to negotiate the right visa to entitle you to 'free' government schooling for your kids, or the company should compensate you (financially) to send your kids to private schools. I'm an Australian living in LA so I went through the relocation experience. I'm from Sydney and my husband is originally from Melbourne. I would be more than happy to answer specific questions you might have between the two cities as they are quite different but still both awesome (I assure you, you will love living in either city!) Schools in Sydney are generally very good, but obviously private schools have big advantages in lots of ways, especially when the kids get older (you don't mention how old your kids are?). My daughter is still preschool age so I don't know about specific Australian schools (not counting the info I have from actually going to school in Sydney as a child) but essentially, I think you should be considering an area that suits your interests/hobbies and then seeing if there's a school nearby that suits you. Are you outdoorsy? Like good restaurants? Wine? Water views? Is sunshiney weather the most important thing?!?

Email me anytime (michellearobertson @ yahoo . com) if you have specific questions about Sydney. I used to work/live in the North Sydney area so I know it very well. It also depends on whether you plan to buy or rent a house. So many things to consider! So exciting for you! The best of luck. xx


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## jersey2oz (Aug 19, 2009)

livinginlafornow said:


> You need to be sure to negotiate the right visa to entitle you to 'free' government schooling for your kids, or the company should compensate you (financially) to send your kids to private schools. I'm an Australian living in LA so I went through the relocation experience. I'm from Sydney and my husband is originally from Melbourne. I would be more than happy to answer specific questions you might have between the two cities as they are quite different but still both awesome (I assure you, you will love living in either city!) Schools in Sydney are generally very good, but obviously private schools have big advantages in lots of ways, especially when the kids get older (you don't mention how old your kids are?). My daughter is still preschool age so I don't know about specific Australian schools (not counting the info I have from actually going to school in Sydney as a child) but essentially, I think you should be considering an area that suits your interests/hobbies and then seeing if there's a school nearby that suits you. Are you outdoorsy? Like good restaurants? Wine? Water views? Is sunshiney weather the most important thing?!?
> 
> Email me anytime (michellearobertson @ yahoo . com) if you have specific questions about Sydney. I used to work/live in the North Sydney area so I know it very well. It also depends on whether you plan to buy or rent a house. So many things to consider! So exciting for you! The best of luck. xx


Hi and thanks for your reply - I have two boys 10 and 7. We have lived in Charlotte NC for 10 years and 6 years in Tennessee before that, so I have really become used to mild weather - we are a very active family and enjoy being near the coast. We are still waiting for the company to give us our relo offer - then we will begin the negotiations. Your advice on the "right kind of visa" with regard to the availability of "free" public school was helpful - I have been slogging through the Sydney government websites and that is the conclusion I was drawing. Do you know if this is the case in Melbourne as well? From what I have found it does not seem to be.... I will keep you posted on our progress - it is hard to make any plans until we see what they are offering!!!! Thanks --Liz


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## amaslam (Sep 25, 2008)

I think every place in AU is going to have similar rules, if on a temp visa you don't get govt benefits, but if on PR visa you do.



jersey2oz said:


> Hi and thanks for your reply - I have two boys 10 and 7. We have lived in Charlotte NC for 10 years and 6 years in Tennessee before that, so I have really become used to mild weather - we are a very active family and enjoy being near the coast. We are still waiting for the company to give us our relo offer - then we will begin the negotiations. Your advice on the "right kind of visa" with regard to the availability of "free" public school was helpful - I have been slogging through the Sydney government websites and that is the conclusion I was drawing. Do you know if this is the case in Melbourne as well? From what I have found it does not seem to be.... I will keep you posted on our progress - it is hard to make any plans until we see what they are offering!!!! Thanks --Liz


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## livinginlafornow (Sep 7, 2009)

The states are not AS divided in Australia as the US (I mean with in terms of so many differences in state laws although there certainly are some). I'm fairly sure the visa/government school situation will be the same in either city. Queensland and the Northern Territory often do their own thing (!) but generally Victoria and New South Wales are pretty similar. 

In terms of location, from your brief note it sounds to me as though you would be happier in Sydney. The weather is better (it rains a lot more often in Melbourne) and its more outdoorsy. Melbourne has better fashion/nightlife/arts. Melbourne property is on the whole a bit cheaper though, so that might also swing your decision. Its certainly catching up to Sydney prices, but its still cheaper I'd say. One more thing in case you've haven't worked it out yet: the school system in Australia is not broken up the same way as the US. There's simply PRIMARY SCHOOL (K-Year 6) followed by HIGH SCHOOL (Year 7-Year 12). Depending on when you get there, your boys will probably go in the following grades:

Year 1 or 2 (for 7 year olds)
Year 4 or 5 (for 10 year olds)

That means they can easily go to the same school as most Primary Schools go from Kindergarten to Year 6. Your oldest will change schools in Year 7 when he goes to HIGH SCHOOL and can stay at that school until Year 12 (some private schools do have a 'middle school' for Years 7 and 8 which I guess is like Junior High). Many parents send their kids to government primary schools and then put them in a private school from Year 7 onwards. That's what I'll be doing if I'm living in Sydney when my daughter starts school.


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## jersey2oz (Aug 19, 2009)

livinginlafornow said:


> The states are not AS divided in Australia as the US (I mean with in terms of so many differences in state laws although there certainly are some). I'm fairly sure the visa/government school situation will be the same in either city. Queensland and the Northern Territory often do their own thing (!) but generally Victoria and New South Wales are pretty similar.
> 
> In terms of location, from your brief note it sounds to me as though you would be happier in Sydney. The weather is better (it rains a lot more often in Melbourne) and its more outdoorsy. Melbourne has better fashion/nightlife/arts. Melbourne property is on the whole a bit cheaper though, so that might also swing your decision. Its certainly catching up to Sydney prices, but its still cheaper I'd say. One more thing in case you've haven't worked it out yet: the school system in Australia is not broken up the same way as the US. There's simply PRIMARY SCHOOL (K-Year 6) followed by HIGH SCHOOL (Year 7-Year 12). Depending on when you get there, your boys will probably go in the following grades:
> 
> ...


Thanks - we have decided on Sydney. I am looking at North Sydney area - Willoughby, North Ryde, Greenwich, Chatswood... my husband wants to be on the train line. Do you know any of these areas? I am starting to look for schools...


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