# Teaching English in Valencia



## Clemmie00

Hi everyone!

I am strongly considering moving to Spain (we're particularly interested in Valencia) with my partner. I know the crisis is really bad there, but we've been told that the chances of finding work as English teachers are quite good.

We both have the CELTA (he will also have the DELTA soon) and four years of full time experience and are currently teaching in good schools in London. We both have experience of teaching business classes, kids and exam classes such as IELTS and the Cambridge FCE/CAE. 

We're doing OK here in London but the size of the city, our commute, the crime levels and the pollution are not doing our mental and physical health much good. We feel like we've had our time here and it's time to move on. It's also not great to be living in a city with so much to do but not have the money to enjoy it. We're paying over 1000 pounds a month to rent an apartment which is 45 minutes from work (by train) and over 160 a month each for a monthly travelcard. The hourly rates for TEFL teachers in Spain are lower (although we've been told 12 euro an hour is the absolute minimum for qualified, experienced teachers), but the cost of living seems to be _much_ lower. We mostly enjoy doing 'free' things like hanging out in the park or at the beach and we just don't have the weather here to be able to do that. 

I speak Spanish well as I have lived in Spain before and am hoping to reach an advanced level within a few months. My partner has an elementary level, but I would expect him to become conversational pretty quickly. Our main reasons for moving would be improved quality of life (the weather is a big one) and the opportunity to immerse ourselves in the Spanish language. We don't expect to get rich, but also don't want to be scraping by. 

What do you think? Are we being totally unrealistic? It feels like we're giving up quite a lot but in reality, our jobs in London are not all that secure (I don't even have a guaranteed hours contract and could theoretically be let go at any time for any reason). We will work out a back-up plan (such as going to another country like Korea where work is guaranteed) for if things don't work out by Christmas but we don't want to waste our time either.


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## jojo

I wouldnt risk it. At least in the UK, should you lose your jobs you'll get benefits and free healthcare in the UK. Also there is mass unemployment in Spain which wont make it easy for you to find regular work. Spain is a harsh country, its in crisis and you would probably live a very precarious lifestyle, apart from that things really are no different in Spanish cities, crime, pollution commute distances.... You could achieve what you are looking for easier by moving to a smaller town within the UK. 

Spain has recently introduced a new ruling whereby you need to prove and income and healthcare provisions before you can be granted residencia http://www.expatforum.com/expats/sp...uirements-uk-citizens-spain-april-2012-a.html

Jo xxx


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## Clemmie00

I see what you mean, but we're already living a precarious lifestyle here. We don't know from one week to the next how much work we'll have and our rent is crippling when hours at work are scarce. If we had job security here, we probably wouldn't leave, but we really don't. We might be entitled to the dole if we lost our jobs, but I definitely wouldn't want to live on that. We'd move abroad as soon as possible. The thing is that with this career, our skills aren't valued as much in the UK as they are abroad. We've worked in the Far East for the money and benefits (such as free accommodation) but for now, we want somewhere with good weather and a more chilled out lifestyle. 

To be honest, staying in the UK isn't an option for us right now. We basically just have no reason to be here other than the NHS. Neither of us have family here (he's not British and I was brought up abroad), we don't particularly have a social network here, the TEFL situation isn't great in a country full of qualified native English speakers. The question isn't whether to go, but where to go. We might come back in the future, but it seems silly to stay when we have one of the few jobs which makes it very easy to travel and work abroad. I don't think either of us have the 'grass is greener' syndrome - we've both lived and worked abroad and I've lived in Spain before (although it was before the crisis) so we're not expecting miracles. 

I was led to believe that Valencia is extremely walkable and that the metro system is very good and very fast, so commuting shouldn't take more than about 20 minutes. I've contacted a few teacher friends in Spain and some academies and they reckon there is work, but I suppose you don't know for sure until you hit the ground. I should reiterate that this isn't a long term plan (not for the moment, anyway) - we know there's definitely no teaching work around in the summer, so we intend to be there from September to June - 9 or 10 months at most before we move on somewhere else.

Those new rules about residency requirements worry me as they seem very unclear. I'll definitely look into that, but if we find work shortly after arriving, wouldn't that most likely be enough? If we don't find work by Christmas, we'll be leaving anyway.


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## xabiaxica

Clemmie00 said:


> I see what you mean, but we're already living a precarious lifestyle here. We don't know from one week to the next how much work we'll have and our rent is crippling when hours at work are scarce. If we had job security here, we probably wouldn't leave, but we really don't. We might be entitled to the dole if we lost our jobs, but I definitely wouldn't want to live on that. We'd move abroad as soon as possible. The thing is that with this career, our skills aren't valued as much in the UK as they are abroad. We've worked in the Far East for the money and benefits (such as free accommodation) but for now, we want somewhere with good weather and a more chilled out lifestyle.
> 
> To be honest, staying in the UK isn't an option for us right now. We basically just have no reason to be here other than the NHS. Neither of us have family here (he's not British and I was brought up abroad), we don't particularly have a social network here, the TEFL situation isn't great in a country full of qualified native English speakers. The question isn't whether to go, but where to go. We might come back in the future, but it seems silly to stay when we have one of the few jobs which makes it very easy to travel and work abroad. I don't think either of us have the 'grass is greener' syndrome - we've both lived and worked abroad and I've lived in Spain before (although it was before the crisis) so we're not expecting miracles.
> 
> I was led to believe that Valencia is extremely walkable and that the metro system is very good and very fast, so commuting shouldn't take more than about 20 minutes. I've contacted a few teacher friends in Spain and some academies and they reckon there is work, but I suppose you don't know for sure until you hit the ground. I should reiterate that this isn't a long term plan (not for the moment, anyway) - we know there's definitely no teaching work around in the summer, so we intend to be there from September to June - 9 or 10 months at most before we move on somewhere else.
> 
> Those new rules about residency requirements worry me as they seem very unclear. I'll definitely look into that, but if we find work shortly after arriving, wouldn't that most likely be enough? If we don't find work by Christmas, we'll be leaving anyway.


however precarious it is for you in the UK, chances are it will be much worse here

however.......... if it's just the 2 of you & you can support yourselves from savings for 3 months, then you might as well give it a try - if you feel that you can take a chance of using all your savings & ending up with nothing

you can come for 90 days before you register as resident .- & use your EHIC for emergency medical treatment

if you do get work, hopefully by then we'll all know where we stand as far as income requirements for residency are concerned - & that you will be earning enough to satisfy them


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## Clemmie00

xabiachica said:


> however precarious it is for you in the UK, chances are it will be much worse here
> 
> however.......... if it's just the 2 of you & you can support yourselves from savings for 3 months, then you might as well give it a try - if you feel that you can take a chance of using all your savings & ending up with nothing
> 
> you can come for 90 days before you register as resident .- & use your EHIC for emergency medical treatment
> 
> if you do get work, hopefully by then we'll all know where we stand as far as income requirements for residency are concerned - & that you will be earning enough to satisfy them


Why is it worse, though? Not being confrontational, but genuinely curious that we've missed something. We have no job security, no pension, no holiday pay, no sick pay, rubbish weather, a 'yob' culture which seems to getting worse and worse. We feel like we're putting a lot in, paying 25% tax, and not getting much back besides the NHS. We're working hard and we feel like we don't get to enjoy it. We can't really afford to live in London, but London (and other big, expensive cities) is where the TEFL work is in the UK, so it's a vicious circle really. 

We're paying out so much here in rent and living costs that a sudden reduction in hours can be disastrous. We figured that in Spain, with rent being so much lower, we could always dip into savings to cover our costs for a month or two if it all went pear shaped and we ended up finding nothing and looking elsewhere. At least we would have learned a lot of Spanish, had a change of scenery and got some sun. And that would hopefully be a worst case scenario. We have been told by people living in Valencia, perhaps too optimistically, that as experienced and qualified teachers, we're likely to find decent jobs.


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## jojo

Can I just say that however bad you think UK benefits are, dont judge them til you seen a country that doesnt have them. In Spain if you havent paid into the system, you dont get anything at all, even then theres a time limit! I used to knock the UK and yes, the benefit system is exploited, but having lived in Spain for four years, I think the UK is great - especially in a crisis. the nanny state does what "nannies" do - look after those who need it!

I'm back in the UK now and altho I miss Spain, the ease of life here is infinitely better.... and no, I'm not on benefits, my husband has a good business and I found work easily enough, altho it is lovely to know the health service is available and that should our ivory tower ever fall down, we wont have to live on the streets begging!

Work in Spain isnt easy to find, you'll be up against millions of others who already live there and are desperate. You maybe lucky and as a couple with no ties it maybe worth the risk, but it wont be easy. Spain is a harsh country and its in crisis


Jo xxx


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## xabiaxica

Clemmie00 said:


> Why is it worse, though? Not being confrontational, but genuinely curious that we've missed something. We have no job security, no pension, no holiday pay, no sick pay, rubbish weather, a 'yob' culture which seems to getting worse and worse. We feel like we're putting a lot in, paying 25% tax, and not getting much back besides the NHS. We're working hard and we feel like we don't get to enjoy it. We can't really afford to live in London, but London (and other big, expensive cities) is where the TEFL work is in the UK, so it's a vicious circle really.
> 
> We're paying out so much here in rent and living costs that a sudden reduction in hours can be disastrous. We figured that in Spain, with rent being so much lower, we could always dip into savings to cover our costs for a month or two if it all went pear shaped and we ended up finding nothing and looking elsewhere. At least we would have learned a lot of Spanish, had a change of scenery and got some sun. And that would hopefully be a worst case scenario. We have been told by people living in Valencia, perhaps too optimistically, that as experienced and qualified teachers, we're likely to find decent jobs.



for a start unemployment is 3x that of the UK 


as a self employed teacher you will have to pay 250+€ a month NI whether you earn anything or not - & tax on top of that.............. EACH

you might be lucky though & get a contracted job - but they are few & far between

what happens to you in the UK if work dries up completely? Can you get JSA or whatever the benefit is nowadays?

you wouldn't get anything here - nothing

I'm a self-employed teacher - I teach Spanish to non-Spanish people as well as English as a foreign language - I also tutor GCSE maths, Spanish & English

I used to work for an academy - but can command a much higher hourly rate self-employed, and can to an extent dictate my hours..although my dds are teenagers, I like to be home for lunch with them when they finish school at 2pm, be available for homework help & not work too many evenings. With the academy I would be working til 10:30 pm at night, having had my first class at 9am........... but maybe only 3 hours work in the entire day

I have built my business over quite some years & now have a large base of students & several large groups which provide me with a good hourly rate, so I don't have to work every waking hour - though it sometimes feels like I do anyway

I am VERY aware though, that if I get sick, or my work dries up - there is _*NOTHING*_ in the way of support for me & my daughters -*NOTHING*.......and if I stop paying my NI/autónoma payment - we won't even have healthcare

as I said, though - if you're willing to risk your savings, give it a try


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## Clemmie00

jojo said:


> Can I just say that however bad you think UK benefits are, dont judge them til you seen a country that doesnt have them. In Spain if you havent paid into the system, you dont get anything at all, even then theres a time limit! I used to knock the UK and yes, the benefit system is exploited, but having lived in Spain for four years, I think the UK is great - especially in a crisis. the nanny state does what "nannies" do - look after those who need it!
> 
> I'm back in the UK now and altho I miss Spain, the ease of life here is infinitely better.... and no, I'm not on benefits, my husband has a good business and I found work easily enough, altho it is lovely to know the health service is available and that should our ivory tower ever fall down, we wont have to live on the streets begging!
> 
> 
> 
> Jo xxx



I've never used any state benefits here except for the NHS. I've only worked in the UK full time for 2 years now and I don't see much of a difference, to be honest. As a childless, employed adult, I'm not really entitled to anything here. Sure, I'd get the dole if I lost my job, but it's so little for someone in my position that I'd rather do just about anything else to avoid it. There are so many jobs in other countries crying out for native English teachers that it would be crazy to stay here and live on the dole. 

How expensive is healthcare in Spain? I have lived in other countries, including the US, and had no problem with getting health insurance and using the local systems which were always very good. Is it very difficult to sort out in Spain?


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## xabiaxica

Clemmie00 said:


> I've never used any state benefits here except for the NHS. I've only worked in the UK full time for 2 years now and I don't see much of a difference, to be honest. As a childless, employed adult, I'm not really entitled to anything here. Sure, I'd get the dole if I lost my job, but it's so little for someone in my position that I'd rather do just about anything else to avoid it. There are so many jobs in other countries crying out for native English teachers that it would be crazy to stay here and live on the dole.
> 
> How expensive is healthcare in Spain? I have lived in other countries, including the US, and had no problem with getting health insurance and using the local systems which were always very good. Is it very difficult to sort out in Spain?


private healthcare is not especially expensive here

but if you're working you'll be paying NI in one form or another & be able to use the state healthcare

yes, many countries are crying out for native english teachers - Spain isn't exactly crying out for them though - more that English teachers are crying out for work

as I said - there IS work - whether there's actually enough to legally support yourselves & satisfy the residency requirements is another matter


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## Clemmie00

xabiachica said:


> for a start unemployment is 3x that of the UK
> 
> 
> as a self employed teacher you will have to pay 250+€ a month NI whether you earn anything or not - & tax on top of that.............. EACH
> 
> you might be lucky though & get a contracted job - but they are few & far between
> 
> what happens to you in the UK if work dries up completely? Can you get JSA or whatever the benefit is nowadays?
> 
> you wouldn't get anything here - nothing


I don't want to go autonomo - I was told that working in several academies as an employee was definitely doable in Valencia city. Yes, I'd probably be entitled to a small amount of JSA here in the UK if I lost my job entirely, but we'd pack up and leave as soon as possible. I have the option of staying at my parents' house for a few weeks until I make other arrangements and my partner could do the same in a pinch. 



> I'm a self-employed teacher - I teach Spanish to non-Spanish people as well as English as a foreign language - I also tutor GCSE maths, Spanish & English
> 
> I used to work for an academy - but can command a much higher hourly rate self-employed, and can to an extent dictate my hours..although my dds are teenagers, I like to be home for lunch with them when they finish school at 2pm, be available for homework help & not work too many evenings. With the academy I would be working til 10:30 pm at night, having had my first class at 9am........... but maybe only 3 hours work in the entire day
> 
> I have built my business over quite some years & now have a large base of students & several large groups which provide me with a good hourly rate, so I don't have to work every waking hour - though it sometimes feels like I do anyway
> 
> I am VERY aware though, that if I get sick, or my work dries up - there is _*NOTHING*_ in the way of support for me & my daughters -*NOTHING*.......and if I stop paying my NI/autónoma payment - we won't even have healthcare
> 
> as I said, though - if you're willing to risk your savings, give it a try


We're at very different stages of life, though. I wouldn't mind working until late at night, I do that here. I don't have kids to worry about. It's never even occurred to me to think about getting state benefits if work dried up because it's generally easier just to move on. If I had kids in a Spanish school, I'd have to be much more careful but as it's just me and my partner, we're thinking along the lines of, we can always go back to the UK or try another country if it doesn't work out. 

Still, we don't want to go there to fail. If there's that little chance of finding work, we'd be better off elsewhere. We have contacts in South America and Asia. We we just really hoping we might have a chance in Spain because that's where we really want to live.


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## xabiaxica

Clemmie00 said:


> I don't want to go autonomo - I was told that working in several academies as an employee was definitely doable in Valencia city. Yes, I'd probably be entitled to a small amount of JSA here in the UK if I lost my job entirely, but we'd pack up and leave as soon as possible. I have the option of staying at my parents' house for a few weeks until I make other arrangements and my partner could do the same in a pinch.
> 
> 
> 
> We're at very different stages of life, though. I wouldn't mind working until late at night, I do that here. I don't have kids to worry about. It's never even occurred to me to think about getting state benefits if work dried up because it's generally easier just to move on. If I had kids in a Spanish school, I'd have to be much more careful but as it's just me and my partner, we're thinking along the lines of, we can always go back to the UK or try another country if it doesn't work out.
> 
> Still, we don't want to go there to fail. If there's that little chance of finding work, we'd be better off elsewhere. We have contacts in South America and Asia. We we just really hoping we might have a chance in Spain because that's where we really want to live.


yes, we are at different stages of life - & as I think I've said several times........ if you are willing to risk your savings, then go for it - you might be lucky 

I'm interested to know where you heard you could get several academy jobs though


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## chianti13

I don't know if it's the general feeling throughout Spain but certainly the region in which I have experience has people falling over themselves with CELTA/DELTA qualifications, in fact I am friends with a couple who have a beautiful house in a beautiful area they're both qualified DELTA teachers and have been teaching TEFL for years and they have to pack up and close their house for over half of the year and work in Brataslava or Portugal (In Tefl jobs) just to make ends meet!

I hope you have more luck!


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## Clemmie00

xabiachica said:


> yes, we are at different stages of life - & as I think I've said several times........ if you are willing to risk your savings, then go for it - you might be lucky
> 
> I'm interested to know where you heard you could get several academy jobs though


I have a friend who is working there now who claims he's had no problem finding work with academies. The impression he gave me was that while it isn't _easy_ to get work, he has more than enough to live off and save. I think it has to be said that while unemployment in the UK is much lower than Spain in general, the TEFL industry here is in tatters. When I first came here, I was earning £11 an hour and working 15 hours a week. In a city where just your travelcard can be nearly £200 a month. It's no paradise here either. My school has let 7 teachers go this year and most of us are now officially part time and need other jobs to survive. 

Our advice on Valencia is ranging from 'come over, it's way better over here' to 'don't even think about it' so it's hard to know what to do.


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## jojo

Clemmie00 said:


> I have a friend who is working there now who claims he's had no problem finding work with academies. The impression he gave me was that while it isn't _easy_ to get work, he has more than enough to live off and save. I think it has to be said that while unemployment in the UK is much lower than Spain in general, the TEFL industry here is in tatters. When I first came here, I was earning £11 an hour and working 15 hours a week. In a city where just your travelcard can be nearly £200 a month. It's no paradise here either. My school has let 7 teachers go this year and most of us are now officially part time and need other jobs to survive.
> 
> Our advice on Valencia is ranging from 'come over, it's way better over here' to 'don't even think about it' so it's hard to know what to do.



I guess its a leap of faith in the end! We've told you how things are as we've found it, Xabiachica is an English teacher in Javea, Spain, has been for several years and is a fluent Spanish speaker so knows "her stuff"!! , The UK news is full of the problems with Spain financially, altho it rarely mentions the job situation as such and its rubbish to think that there isnt as much crime.

Try it for 90 days (thats when you would need to become a resident, prove your income and healthcare provision) and see what happens. Careful what UK bridges you burn or you may find that you are glad of the JSA LOL

Interestingly I have a friend who owns a TEFL school in the UK (Worthing) and he says its booming???!! But maybe he's just saying that to impress (He does like to brag)?????

Jo xxx


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## Pesky Wesky

Clemmie00 said:


> I have a friend who is working there now who claims he's had no problem finding work with academies. The impression he gave me was that while it isn't _easy_ to get work, he has more than enough to live off and save. I think it has to be said that while unemployment in the UK is much lower than Spain in general, the TEFL industry here is in tatters. When I first came here, I was earning £11 an hour and working 15 hours a week. In a city where just your travelcard can be nearly £200 a month. It's no paradise here either. My school has let 7 teachers go this year and most of us are now officially part time and need other jobs to survive.
> 
> Our advice on Valencia is ranging from 'come over, it's way better over here' to 'don't even think about it' so it's hard to know what to do.


Look at the job market before you come over and then you'll have a better feel of what's going on. Or phone schools up directly. Now is the time to be looking anyway, although true to Spanish style, schools don't know their real timetable for 2012 - 2013 until late September. Cambridge exams are really being pushed in schools which may result in there being more exam groups in academies.
For where to look for jobs (other than yellow pages) look at post #3 here
http://www.expatforum.com/expats/sp...iving-spain/26226-teaching-english-spain.html


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## brocher

I totally understand, and agree with, your logic for leaving London... but Spain, maybe not just yet. 

Why don't you go off to Asia or somewhere, for another couple of years, save hard, replenish your savings - then think again abut settling in Spain. Maybe then things will have settled down a bit and it'll be easier to live in Spain - and you will have more savings behind you to tide you over until you get settled and find regular work.

Xab and PW know far more about TEFAL type teaching in Spain at the moment, but I do know one person with a degree and her CELTA qualification. She is lucky enough to be in full time. contracted employment but still finds the hourly rate makes it hard for her to live a halfways comfortable life, withouy doing extra teaching in the evenings.

I also see a huge amount of ads in the papers with people offering private lessons for say 10euros an hour. That hour is probably really two by the time they do their preparation and planning, travel to/from the lesson, etc - and pay their autonomo. I'm sure not so many would be advertising if they could find secure employment.

Another thought - you seem to enjoy teaching, and as you say, have no real ties at the moment. Would it be worth considering using this time to upgrade your qualifications to a fully qualified teacher, offering you additional opportunities, security - and maybe better pay - in the future!


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## Clemmie00

brocher said:


> I totally understand, and agree with, your logic for leaving London... but Spain, maybe not just yet.
> 
> Why don't you go off to Asia or somewhere, for another couple of years, save hard, replenish your savings - then think again abut settling in Spain. Maybe then things will have settled down a bit and it'll be easier to live in Spain - and you will have more savings behind you to tide you over until you get settled and find regular work.


We'd prefer to stay closer to home - for now - for personal reasons. That's not set in stone, though, and if we really needed to, we could definitely consider Asia. One of the reasons I want to go abroad is to improve my Spanish and South America isn't exactly a goldmine of opportunity either.It's also so far away that flights home would be almost impossible. So Spain seemed like an OK opportunity. 



> Xab and PW know far more about TEFAL type teaching in Spain at the moment, but I do know one person with a degree and her CELTA qualification. She is lucky enough to be in full time. contracted employment but still finds the hourly rate makes it hard for her to live a halfways comfortable life, withouy doing extra teaching in the evenings.


How much is she making (if you know)? 



> I also see a huge amount of ads in the papers with people offering private lessons for say 10euros an hour. That hour is probably really two by the time they do their preparation and planning, travel to/from the lesson, etc - and pay their autonomo. I'm sure not so many would be advertising if they could find secure employment.


You see that all over London too. It's usually people looking to make extra tax-free cash on top of their salary (you only get about £10 an hour after tax here in most schools). I don't know if it's the same in Spain. 



> Another thought - you seem to enjoy teaching, and as you say, have no real ties at the moment. Would it be worth considering using this time to upgrade your qualifications to a fully qualified teacher, offering you additional opportunities, security - and maybe better pay - in the future!


I am a fully qualified teacher. I have no interest in becoming a secondary or primary school teacher, if that's what you mean. I chose this career because it's so flexible, I don't want a 9-5 job. I'm also a translator, so the flexible hours in TEFL mean I can do translation jobs (I'm focusing only on teaching at the moment, as we need the money while my partner completes his DELTA) and take language classes. In the future, I hope to translate more and teach less and becoming totally proficient in Spanish would help me with this. Of course, I can do this without living in Spain. It's just harder. Spain is still always an option for the future if I end up translating full time. I get paid for that in euros and the work is all internet based, so no worries about finding a job on the ground. I'd just love to go _now._


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## jojo

Like I've said, give it a try for 90 days, but remember that you wont be the only one trying to do this. You will be the newbie straight off the plane in a sea of 1000s of other TEFL teachers and translators. "Hope for the best and prepare for the worst" will be your motto lol!!

Jo xxx


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## Pesky Wesky

brocher said:


> I totally understand, and agree with, your logic for leaving London... but Spain, maybe not just yet.
> 
> Why don't you go off to Asia or somewhere, for another couple of years, save hard, replenish your savings - then think again abut settling in Spain. Maybe then things will have settled down a bit and it'll be easier to live in Spain - and you will have more savings behind you to tide you over until you get settled and find regular work.
> 
> Xab and PW know far more about TEFAL type teaching in Spain at the moment, but I do know one person with a degree and her CELTA qualification. She is lucky enough to be in full time. contracted employment but still finds the hourly rate makes it hard for her to live a halfways comfortable life, withouy doing extra teaching in the evenings.
> 
> I also see a huge amount of ads in the papers with people offering private lessons for say 10euros an hour. That hour is probably really two by the time they do their preparation and planning, travel to/from the lesson, etc - and pay their autonomo. I'm sure not so many would be advertising if they could find secure employment.
> 
> Another thought - you seem to enjoy teaching, and as you say, have no real ties at the moment. Would it be worth considering using this time to upgrade your qualifications to a fully qualified teacher, offering you additional opportunities, security - and maybe better pay - in the future!


I agree with what you say Brocher, but it may be possible to just about get by if they're not fussy about timetables, who they teach and hourly rates.
I wouldn't actually recommend it, and agree that another country (China for example) might be a better bet, but if they want to come to Spain then I stand by what I said before, look at the job market first.


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## Pesky Wesky

Clemmie00 said:


> You see that all over London too. It's usually people looking to make extra tax-free cash on top of their salary (you only get about £10 an hour after tax here in most schools). I don't know if it's the same in Spain.
> 
> I'm in Madrid and I see all kinds of rates from 6€ an hour to some one who's backpacking and offers "conversation" classes to an experienced qualified autónomo charging 35€ an hour for company classes. They are the extremes though. the usual kind of rates for academy work here are 12 - 18€. It will be lower in the south of Spain. Not many company classes around ATM, companies are packing up, although you might get academy work...
> 
> I am a fully qualified teacher. I have no interest in becoming a secondary or primary school teacher, if that's what you mean. I chose this career because it's so flexible, I don't want a 9-5 job. I'm also a translator, so the flexible hours in TEFL mean I can do translation jobs (I'm focusing only on teaching at the moment, as we need the money while my partner completes his DELTA) and take language classes. In the future, I hope to translate more and teach less and becoming totally proficient in Spanish would help me with this. Of course, I can do this without living in Spain. It's just harder. Spain is still always an option for the future if I end up translating full time. I get paid for that in euros and the work is all internet based, so no worries about finding a job on the ground. I'd just love to go _now._
> 
> Yes, obviously being in Spain for the language would be ideal for you. Do you find you make much money from translating? Sorry, personal question. Of course you don't need to reply. I've always found it pretty badly paid. Do you have any links to translation companies on line? I teach in companies and I've had some classes cut this month due to the crisis and need to explore other means of making money.


***


----------



## brocher

Clemmie00 said:


> We'd prefer to stay closer to home - for now - for personal reasons. That's not set in stone, though, and if we really needed to, we could definitely consider Asia. One of the reasons I want to go abroad is to improve my Spanish and South America isn't exactly a goldmine of opportunity either.It's also so far away that flights home would be almost impossible. So Spain seemed like an OK opportunity.
> 
> How much is she making (if you know)?
> 
> You see that all over London too. It's usually people looking to make extra tax-free cash on top of their salary (you only get about £10 an hour after tax here in most schools). I don't know if it's the same in Spain.
> 
> I am a fully qualified teacher. I have no interest in becoming a secondary or primary school teacher, if that's what you mean. I chose this career because it's so flexible, I don't want a 9-5 job. I'm also a translator, so the flexible hours in TEFL mean I can do translation jobs (I'm focusing only on teaching at the moment, as we need the money while my partner completes his DELTA) and take language classes. In the future, I hope to translate more and teach less and becoming totally proficient in Spanish would help me with this. Of course, I can do this without living in Spain. It's just harder. Spain is still always an option for the future if I end up translating full time. I get paid for that in euros and the work is all internet based, so no worries about finding a job on the ground. I'd just love to go _now._


So you've decided - you want to leave London, you don't really want to go too far afield for now - and you REALLY, REALLY want to go to Spain. So, how to make it happen???

Lucky you, you have your full teaching qualifications - but don't really want to do that - I understand that, it wouldn't be for me either! 

But... how about a short term compromise? Apply for a teaching job at an international school - if you were lucky enough to succeed you'd buy yourself security for a year or so, while your OH looks for TEFL work, and you build up your contacts for longer term TEFAL work and translating.

Just a thought...


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## Clemmie00

I've only used personal clients so far and have met them the old fashioned way - networking events and through friends/work. I work from French into English, haven't started working with Spanish or Italian yet. 

It IS tough to get into translation. I have a degree in two languages and a postgraduate degree in translation and interpreting and I'm definitely starting at the bottom.


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## Pesky Wesky

Clemmie00 said:


> I've only used personal clients so far and have met them the old fashioned way - networking events and through friends/work. I work from French into English, haven't started working with Spanish or Italian yet.
> 
> It IS tough to get into translation. I have a degree in two languages and a postgraduate degree in translation and interpreting and I'm definitely starting at the bottom.


Well, I'd be interested to see how everything goes for you re Valencia/ Spain, so I'd appreciate you telling us where you looked for jobs (have you looked at the thread I gave you the link to?) and what kind of offers you get.
Hope all goes well! 

PS Any particular reason for choosing Valencia?


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## mrypg9

Just a point about private health insurance...it's true it isn't expensive...until you need something more than just a GP consultation. 
We pay less than £50 a month for cover for two adults. That entitles us to free GP consultations, free home visits and free emergency ambulance service.
But as we found out recently, anything more costs more.
I paid 400 euros for a consultation with a specialist and a MRI scan. Not a lot, I guess.
By OH had extensive surgery for removal of melanomas which came to thousands of euros.
So you have to consider that eventuality.


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## James Roberts

I lived in Valencia for 6 months and the city is incredible, and if quality of life is what you are after, then I think that for a short period, it is worth it, especially if you both speak Spanish already. 

Job prospects are difficult, but I had friends working as English teachers too and they were also giving private classes for 20 euros per hour outdside of classes to students that had advertised with notes stuck on traffic lights and walls around the city.

Cuts in education will make it harder to find work.

Cost of living wise, I lived in a huge flat with a double room and fully furnished for 220 euros a month. There are so many flats available so you will find one easily, again from cards stuck around the city, and because so many are empty, they are always willing to change the prices if you give them a good vibe. Mine went down from 250 euros.

From what you have said, it seems as though you are very keen on going. So while you can, you may as well go for it. Flights to Valencia are cheap with ryanair too, so that won't be a problem.

Hope this helps and good luck with the decision


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## madrid2012

i'm not sure about valencia
but there seems to be telf work in madrid. Particularly business english.
the market has changed alot apparently and there is demand for GOOD, qualified TEFL teachers who are professional and reliable.

I just completed a TEFL course with one of the top academies here in madrid and there's daily emails coming thru from them with job offers. Two of the guys with british passports already have work starting september.
you probably don't want to do a TEFL course all over again but they do seem to have all the industry contacts and a top reputation which helps.

not sure about valencia though sorry!


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## bob_bob

Clemmie, save cash, go on a holiday and if you can find work take it. There are changes now where you need to show proof of income before becoming a resident (others here know more) so for two of you I think you need to show €450 a month each. Wherever your go make sure you have enough cash in reserve for tickets home, that is vital.

London is not what it was, I've know the city on and off for forty years and its gone down the pan. I enjoy it for weekends, take in a show and late supper but I'd not live there so I can fully understand your desire to move.

I have a good friend who had a contracted teaching job in Hong Kong, his wife is a registered nurse and she made more money than him teaching English privately, no TEFL and she is American. Plenty of Chinese folk want their children speaking English so give that some thought before you come to a country that is to all intent and purpose, bankrupt. It gets very hot and stick out there but the food tends to be rather good


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## gracegaldo

I think you should go for it! I am moving to Granada with my husband next week and we are in a similar situation to you, no kids yet and ready for a change. He is a qualified TEFL teacher, with an MA in education with a focus on TESOL. He has been offered work as a teacher trainer in a TEFL academy. Work will be full time in September with a few hours to pick up in the meantime. We both plan on teaching small private classes to subsidise our income and I will hopefully find some work in childcare eventually. 
The new requirements for income do make things a bit more complicated, but as mentioned before, you have 90 days before you even need to register, so use your EU status (while you can!), make the most of it. Keep thinking positive. Things are much more likely to work out if you believe it will. It's all about your attitude. If all you have to lose is a couple of grand in savings..go for it, life is too short not to! You can always go back to the UK. Do these things while you are young and free!


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## jojo

gracegaldo said:


> I think you should go for it! I am moving to Granada with my husband next week and we are in a similar situation to you, no kids yet and ready for a change. He is a qualified TEFL teacher, with an MA in education with a focus on TESOL. He has been offered work as a teacher trainer in a TEFL academy. Work will be full time in September with a few hours to pick up in the meantime. We both plan on teaching small private classes to subsidise our income and I will hopefully find some work in childcare eventually.
> The new requirements for income do make things a bit more complicated, but as mentioned before, you have 90 days before you even need to register, so use your EU status (while you can!), make the most of it. Keep thinking positive. Things are much more likely to work out if you believe it will. It's all about your attitude. If all you have to lose is a couple of grand in savings..go for it, life is too short not to! You can always go back to the UK. Do these things while you are young and free!


Altho everyones circumstances are different, I have never heard such nonsense in my life as the comment I've highlighted above. Its got absolutely nothing to do with attitude at all, but risk assessment, planning and being aware of the situation! Moving to Spain right now is all about damage limitation

Jo xxx


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## gracegaldo

jojo said:


> Altho everyones circumstances are different, I have never heard such nonsense in my life as the comment I've highlighted above. Its got absolutely nothing to do with attitude at all, but risk assessment, planning and being aware of the situation! Moving to Spain right now is all about damage limitation
> 
> Jo xxx


So you don't believe in the power of positive thinking, but I do, and it's been working for me and lots of other people since the dawn of time. I'm not saying go in blindly thinking that everything will work out without assessing the risks and being prepared. I'm saying that if you have a negative attitude, like many in this forum seem to have, then of course things will not work.


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## jojo

gracegaldo said:


> So you don't believe in the power of positive thinking, but I do, and it's been working for me and lots of other people since the dawn of time. I'm not saying go in blindly thinking that everything will work out without assessing the risks and being prepared. I'm saying that if you have a negative attitude, like many in this forum seem to have, then of course things will not work.


 Attitude is not important. Fact finding and information is! You find out as much as you can and you then either take a risk, based on the odds, looking for ways around problems or you dont! To suggest someone goes steaming in and as long as the feel positive then it will work is foolish! 

I guess you could even say that I'm a positive thinker. I was planning to sell our UK house, buy one in Spain and we'd get jobs in Spain easily "we'd be alright" - how positive is that!!! Fortunately my husband isnt a positive thinker - he's a realist, so he did the fact finding and information stuff. Thankfully we did it his way or we'd be in serious trouble!


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## Pesky Wesky

jojo said:


> Attitude is not important. Fact finding and information is! You find out as much as you can and you then either take a risk, based on the odds, looking for ways around problems or you dont! To suggest someone goes steaming in and as long as the feel positive then it will work is foolish!
> 
> I guess you could even say that I'm a positive thinker. I was planning to sell our UK house, buy one in Spain and we'd get jobs in Spain easily "we'd be alright" - how positive is that!!! Fortunately my husband isnt a positive thinker - he's a realist, so he did the fact finding and information stuff. Thankfully we did it his way or we'd be in serious trouble!


I don't agree Jojo. I think sometimes attitude is what makes or breaks.
Obviously if that's _*all*_ you've got in today's Spain it's not going to get you very far.

However gracegaldo, your comment of


> I'm saying that if you have a negative attitude, like many in this forum seem to have, then of course things will not work.


does not seem to be very positive. Most of the people who post about work in Spain are people who live here, or have lived here and work here. If those people, the very people who are in the working society of Spain can't make very "positive" comments then I would think there's a reason behind it other than just to be negative and put people off. Could it be that the situation here really is tough, much tougher than other European countries? That knowledge needs to be respected too, I think


----------



## jojo

Pesky Wesky said:


> I don't agree Jojo. I think sometimes attitude is what makes or breaks.
> Obviously if that's _*all*_ you've got in today's Spain it's not going to get you very far.
> 
> However gracegaldo, your comment of
> 
> does not seem to be very positive. Most of the people who post about work in Spain are people who live here, or have lived here and work here. If those people, the very people who are in the working society of Spain can't make very "positive" comments then I would think there's a reason behind it other than just to be negative and put people off. Could it be that the situation here really is tough, much tougher than other European countries? That knowledge needs to be respected too, I think


Positive thinking and a positive attitude are different. I have a positive attitude, but realism has to take over - my OH sees to that. That phrase "oh, it'll be alright" doesnt help! I've learnt! information is king, attitude is the person and positive thinking is the dream

Jo xxx


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## Alcalaina

I think all of you are right to some extent, though I'm not sure I understand the difference between positive thinking and a positive attitude. You can be both positive and realistic.

People who are most likely to succeed are those who can envisage success. It can guide their decision-making. On the other hand, their decisions still need to be based on good background information.

I can understand why somebody new to the form might feel that some of the comments here are negative. We all try to be realistic, but when you are trying to convey bad news week after week, month after month, year after year to a seemingly never-ending wave of optimistic hopeful people looking for a better life, you tend to run out of nice ways to express it!


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## jojo

Alcalaina said:


> I can understand why somebody new to the form might feel that some of the comments here are negative. We all try to be realistic, but when you are trying to convey bad news week after week, month after month, year after year to a seemingly never-ending wave of optimistic hopeful people looking for a better life, you tend to run out of nice ways to express it!


 Again tho, its lack of information that makes people think that moving to Spain is the answer! "fed up with the UK, we know its a better life style in Spain, we're prepared to do _*any*_ work........." Yes optimistic attitudes - but no factual information!!!

Jo xxx


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## Pesky Wesky

jojo said:


> Again tho, its lack of information that makes people think that moving to Spain is the answer! "fed up with the UK, we know its a better life style in Spain, we're prepared to do _*any*_ work........." Yes optimistic attitudes - but no factual information!!!
> 
> Jo xxx


 Optimistic Attitudes and Factual Information
Take one spoon of each, mix well, swallow slowly
And reflect...


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## Manin_bcn

Clemmie00 said:


> Hi everyone!
> 
> I am strongly considering moving to Spain (we're particularly interested in Valencia) with my partner. I know the crisis is really bad there, but we've been told that the chances of finding work as English teachers are quite good.
> 
> We both have the CELTA (he will also have the DELTA soon) and four years of full time experience and are currently teaching in good schools in London. We both have experience of teaching business classes, kids and exam classes such as IELTS and the Cambridge FCE/CAE.
> 
> We're doing OK here in London but the size of the city, our commute, the crime levels and the pollution are not doing our mental and physical health much good. We feel like we've had our time here and it's time to move on. It's also not great to be living in a city with so much to do but not have the money to enjoy it. We're paying over 1000 pounds a month to rent an apartment which is 45 minutes from work (by train) and over 160 a month each for a monthly travelcard. The hourly rates for TEFL teachers in Spain are lower (although we've been told 12 euro an hour is the absolute minimum for qualified, experienced teachers), but the cost of living seems to be _much_ lower. We mostly enjoy doing 'free' things like hanging out in the park or at the beach and we just don't have the weather here to be able to do that.
> 
> I speak Spanish well as I have lived in Spain before and am hoping to reach an advanced level within a few months. My partner has an elementary level, but I would expect him to become conversational pretty quickly. Our main reasons for moving would be improved quality of life (the weather is a big one) and the opportunity to immerse ourselves in the Spanish language. We don't expect to get rich, but also don't want to be scraping by.
> 
> What do you think? Are we being totally unrealistic? It feels like we're giving up quite a lot but in reality, our jobs in London are not all that secure (I don't even have a guaranteed hours contract and could theoretically be let go at any time for any reason). We will work out a back-up plan (such as going to another country like Korea where work is guaranteed) for if things don't work out by Christmas but we don't want to waste our time either.


I, too, am a Cambridge CELTA English teacher living in Barcelona.

Well, my experience of jobs for our market, here in Barcelona, has been very good. Lots of academies, plus private tuition sought. You can look in (oh, not sure if I can post this but I will try) Segunda mano Barcelona, Anuncios gratis | LoQUo.com you can search under education/teaching after selecting the area i.e., Valencia, Barcelona, Alicante ...

I almost went to Valencia to teach but I wanted to experience Barcelona first.

Given your background and experience, you won´t have any problem getting work. Usually, however, you get a mix of levels. Some Academies offer business English to one or two companies so you might expect to travel off-site for them. Normal contract hours are around 20-25 per week and the hourly rate varies from between, 13€ and 17,50€/hour (my experience) and some business classes can attain 25€/hour! Some academies pay you "in the black". Which means, they will credit half your monthly salary into your Spanish bank account, and give you the rest in cash. This is so they don´t have to pay as much social security and tax contributions on your behalf but, it affects you, as an individual, should you be unemployed and claim benefit here. Your unemployment benefit is a percentage of your NET annual income, so you lose out. Nothing can be done about it ... I tried to negotiate with my Academy and they refused so I just credit the in hand cash into my bank account and name it as "nomina" or salary. So, if, and when, the time comes and I have to claim unemployment benefit, I will have a record of my simultaneous transactions indicating my monthly nomina.

This was suggested by a friend of mine, and it worked for her. Her credited salary and in hand salary was accepted as proof and she got the full whack in unemployment benefit.

Rental apts/houses vary and costs depend very much on area. A good three bed apt will set you back roughly 600 - 750€ per month, exc bills but, again, depends on the area okay.

Good luck .. take the plunge ... you´ll be fine!


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## Clemmie00

Thanks, it's good to know there is some work around. 

A few questions (I haven't had time to think about Spain since I last posted due to a personal issue):

- I'm so confused about registering as a resident. Apparently you need to do that after 90 days and to do that you need to prove your income and healthcare provisions..... is this a different process, then, to obtaining the NIE? Obviously you can't prove your income and healthcare stuff if you've only just arrived and don't have a job yet but you need the NIE to start work. So are they two different processes? 

- When are you entitled to state healthcare? Is it if you're earning X amount through an employer?


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## jojo

Clemmie00 said:


> Thanks, it's good to know there is some work around.
> 
> A few questions (I haven't had time to think about Spain since I last posted due to a personal issue):
> 
> - I'm so confused about registering as a resident. Apparently you need to do that after 90 days and to do that you need to prove your income and healthcare provisions..... is this a different process, then, to obtaining the NIE? Obviously you can't prove your income and healthcare stuff if you've only just arrived and don't have a job yet but you need the NIE to start work. So are they two different processes?
> 
> - When are you entitled to state healthcare? Is it if you're earning X amount through an employer?


Ywes the rules changed 24th April. Now your NIE isnt the same as the residencia. So you get the NIE, you can get your SS number and then you get a contract. Once you get this, you can then become a resident and that will entitle you to state healthcare. 

The main problem that you'll find is that even if there are a few jobs around, many wont offer permanent contracts and therefore you wont be able to register or claim healthcare and your NIE will only be valid for three months

Jo xxx


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## Manin_bcn

Hi Jo, why is the NIE only valid for three months?

Academies are offering ácademic term´contracts ie, Sept to June so this, in itself, is kind of permanent (at least, acceptable from a government perspective). Then, if you wish to stay for the following year, they give another contract.

The process:

Come to Spain
Obtain NIE
Obtain SS
Obtain empadron
Open bank account
Get job
Get contract
Register health centre.

I don´t think the new rules have changed inasmuch as altering this process, no?


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## jojo

Manin_bcn said:


> Hi Jo, why is the NIE only valid for three months?
> 
> Academies are offering ácademic term´contracts ie, Sept to June so this, in itself, is kind of permanent (at least, acceptable from a government perspective). Then, if you wish to stay for the following year, they give another contract.
> 
> The process:
> 
> Come to Spain
> Obtain NIE
> Obtain SS
> Obtain empadron
> Open bank account
> Get job
> Get contract
> Register health centre.
> 
> I don´t think the new rules have changed inasmuch as altering this process, no?


Have a look at this, it expalins it better than I can. AFAIK, the NIE is now not the same as the residencia. The residencia has to be applied for within 90 days of arrival in Spain and requires proof of income and healthcare provision http://www.expatforum.com/expats/sp...-uk-other-eu-citizens-spain-april-2012-a.html

Jo xxx


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## xabiaxica

jojo said:


> Have a look at this, it expalins it better than I can. AFAIK, the NIE is now not the same as the residencia. The residencia has to be applied for within 90 days of arrival in Spain and requires proof of income and healthcare provision http://www.expatforum.com/expats/sp...-uk-other-eu-citizens-spain-april-2012-a.html
> 
> Jo xxx


yes, the NIE never was the same as the resident cert - they just both have the NIE number on them

what has changed recently is that the NIE cert (not resident cert) now has an expiry date of 3 months on it - the NIE number itself is still valid............... so if after 3 months you need to use that cert you have to get a new one...........& that's when 'they' will assume (rightly or wrongly) that you are living here & need to register as resident.....which of course now means proof of income & healthcare

now, if you need to get your kids into school, or register for healthcare, get a SS number, register on the padrón, even buy a car in some areas you have to have the resident cert - the NIE cert won't be accepted

because this is all still new though, some areas haven't caught up yet & are still doing things the 'old' way


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## jojo

xabiachica said:


> yes, the NIE never was the same as the resident cert - they just both have the NIE number on them
> 
> what has changed recently is that the NIE cert (not resident cert) now has an expiry date of 3 months on it - the NIE number itself is still valid............... so if after 3 months you need to use that cert you have to get a new one...........& that's when 'they' will assume (rightly or wrongly) that you are living here & need to register as resident.....which of course now means proof of income & healthcare
> 
> now, if you need to get your kids into school, or register for healthcare, get a SS number, register on the padrón, even buy a car in some areas you have to have the resident cert - the NIE cert won't be accepted
> 
> because this is all still new though, some areas haven't caught up yet & are still doing things the 'old' way


Got it! So how does that effect "contrato temporal" ???

Jo xxxx


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## xabiaxica

jojo said:


> Got it! So how does that effect "contrato temporal" ???
> 
> Jo xxxx


I guess if you have a contract you have a contract - who knows if that would be enough to satisfy the powers that be :confused2:

people I know who work here - some for years - have just for some reason decided to register as resident - they have had to get a copy of their _vida laboral_


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## Clemmie00

OK, well that changes things a LOT. I was given the impression that if you wanted to work, you had to register (and therefore make healthcare provisions) right away. So could you work and use the EHIC for the first 90 days? The reason I went off moving to Spain is that I didn't want to get health insurance and go through all the faff and maybe not even get enough work to live on. I'd definitely be up for going over, trying and moving back home after a month or two if it didn't work out.


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## jojo

Clemmie00 said:


> OK, well that changes things a LOT. I was given the impression that if you wanted to work, you had to register (and therefore make healthcare provisions) right away. So could you work and use the EHIC for the first 90 days? The reason I went off moving to Spain is that I didn't want to get health insurance and go through all the faff and maybe not even get enough work to live on. I'd definitely be up for going over, trying and moving back home after a month or two if it didn't work out.


If you can get a job, you need to do it within 90 days, so that you have a contract and healthcare provisions to show them when you go to get your residencia. I guess you could use the EHIC for the first few months provided that you dont sign the padron and are effectively a tourist - however, that only covers for emergencies, rather than ongoing issues. When you first arrive in Spain you will need the NIE and Social security number to give to a future employer, or if you're planning to work self employed, then you'd need those things to give to your gestor so that he can register you as autonomo (self employed). This costs around 250€ a month excluding tax. Once that happens you will be eligible for Spanish healthcare, however, AFAIK you will still need to show a business plan and some proof of income to obtain a residencia

Jo xxx


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## Clemmie00

jojo said:


> If you can get a job, you need to do it within 90 days, so that you have a contract and healthcare provisions to show them when you go to get your residencia. I guess you could use the EHIC for the first few months provided that you dont sign the padron and are effectively a tourist - however, that only covers for emergencies, rather than ongoing issues. When you first arrive in Spain you will need the NIE and Social security number to give to a future employer, or if you're planning to work self employed, then you'd need those things to give to your gestor so that he can register you as autonomo (self employed). This costs around 250€ a month excluding tax. Once that happens you will be eligible for Spanish healthcare, however, AFAIK you will still need to show a business plan and some proof of income to obtain a residencia
> 
> Jo xxx


Well, we'd do that anyway. If we didn't have jobs, we'd leave long before 90 days were up, new residency requirements or not. We're planning to become employees at a school, so we hope to get the NIE ASAP after we arrive.


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## jojo

Clemmie00 said:


> Well, we'd do that anyway. If we didn't have jobs, we'd leave long before 90 days were up, new residency requirements or not. We're planning to become employees at a school, so we hope to get the NIE ASAP after we arrive.


 Well nothing I've said is any different to whats already been mentioned. If you're young free and have no commitments, then give it a shot. However, all I will say is to be careful burning your bridges. If it all fails and you have to return, make sure that you have something to return to. 


I'm not sure what language schools are around in the area you're looking, maybe do some research before you go to give yourselves the best possible chance???

Jo xxx


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## Clemmie00

jojo said:


> Well nothing I've said is any different to whats already been mentioned. If you're young free and have no commitments, then give it a shot. However, all I will say is to be careful burning your bridges. If it all fails and you have to return, make sure that you have something to return to.
> 
> 
> I'm not sure what language schools are around in the area you're looking, maybe do some research before you go to give yourselves the best possible chance???
> 
> Jo xxx


Definitely won't burn any bridges. Things aren't looking great at my current workplace (students are not coming to the UK because of visa restrictions) but my boss said he'd be more than happy to have me back if the work is there.


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## chamunt

I have friends who teach English in Valencia and things aren't great at the moment. Having said that there are jobs and lots of people get private lessons to sub a part time post. I did it years ago and I have to say I loved it. Valencia is the most fantastic place to take a chance! Also you can look at 'academias' in the surrounding villages.


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## jojo

chamunt said:


> I have friends who teach English in Valencia and things aren't great at the moment. Having said that there are jobs and lots of people get private lessons to sub a part time post. I did it years ago and I have to say I loved it. *Valencia is the most fantastic place to take a chance*! Also you can look at 'academias' in the surrounding villages.


I'm not sure why you're digging up old threads - altho I guess you like the idea of Valencia. However, There is no place in Spain, or indeed the world where you can simply "take a chance", especially with Spains new rules on residence. To immigrate you need to plan and gain as much knowledge as possible - leave nothing to chance!

Jo xxx


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## anderso

I know this is an old thread, but just want to throw in a few more optimistic words:

Valencia is great. I am from Copenhagen and my wife is from London and we both love it here! Commuting, pollution levels and crime levels are all much better here than London, in my opinion. It's certainly not paradise here, but it's close enough. Barcelona is a rougher place. 

Valencia is flat, the climate is amazing and the metro system very efficient. So it's very easy to get around.

We work with our own business online so are not really affected by the job situation, but I do think it is possible to "give it a shot" here. As long as you plan ahead.

We got our NIEs at the embassy before moving here. The first week we opened bank accounts with just the NIE and our passports. We then got our padron (registered at the municipality) and proceeded to buy a car. In terms of health service we are covered by our blue EU cards until mid-2014.

We still pay tax in Denmark, and technically also have to pay tax in Spain, but all taxes paid in Denmark are deducted from the Spanish ones effectively making them nil. So we are not double taxed, and as soon as we have filed for 2012 taxes in Spain we should not need our blue EU cards anymore to keep our green "health cards". These we automatically received the first time we went to the local health centre (centro de salud) and presented our blue EU cards.

That's pretty much all we have done. I recently found a Spanish 'economista' who told me that since we have been here more than half of 2012, and are EU citizens, we have automatically become 'residencias', so there is no need to apply separately for a 'recidencia'. 

So it's actually been pretty straight forward and I if you dream of trying something new in life I certainly wouldn't hold myself back and I can't recommend Valencia enough. Just prepare as much as you can from home. Get your NIE. Contact work places where you think there might be a chance of securing a job. Etc. etc.

BTW. We see a professional Spanish teacher (who also teaches English) once a week and in her opinion, the crisis is "inspiring" a lot of Spanish people to learn English so they'll have more opportunities in the future. At the same time, Valencia is far behind Madrid and Barcelona in terms of how widely English is spoken, so I would guess that this would indeed be a good place to "try it out".

Good luck


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## Pesky Wesky

anderso said:


> I know this is an old thread, but just want to throw in a few more optimistic words:
> 
> Valencia is great. I am from Copenhagen and my wife is from London and we both love it here! Commuting, pollution levels and crime levels are all much better here than London, in my opinion. It's certainly not paradise here, but it's close enough. Barcelona is a rougher place.
> 
> Valencia is flat, the climate is amazing and the metro system very efficient. So it's very easy to get around.
> 
> We work with our own business online so are not really affected by the job situation, but I do think it is possible to "give it a shot" here. As long as you plan ahead.
> 
> We got our NIEs at the embassy before moving here. The first week we opened bank accounts with just the NIE and our passports. We then got our padron (registered at the municipality) and proceeded to buy a car. In terms of health service we are covered by our blue EU cards until mid-2014.
> 
> We still pay tax in Denmark, and technically also have to pay tax in Spain, but all taxes paid in Denmark are deducted from the Spanish ones effectively making them nil. So we are not double taxed, and as soon as we have filed for 2012 taxes in Spain we should not need our blue EU cards anymore to keep our green "health cards". These we automatically received the first time we went to the local health centre (centro de salud) and presented our blue EU cards.
> 
> That's pretty much all we have done. I recently found a Spanish 'economista' who told me that since we have been here more than half of 2012, and are EU citizens, we have automatically become 'residencias', so there is no need to apply separately for a 'recidencia'.
> 
> So it's actually been pretty straight forward and I if you dream of trying something new in life I certainly wouldn't hold myself back and I can't recommend Valencia enough. Just prepare as much as you can from home. Get your NIE. Contact work places where you think there might be a chance of securing a job. Etc. etc.
> 
> BTW. We see a professional Spanish teacher (who also teaches English) once a week and in her opinion, the crisis is "inspiring" a lot of Spanish people to learn English so they'll have more opportunities in the future. At the same time, Valencia is far behind Madrid and Barcelona in terms of how widely English is spoken, so I would guess that this would indeed be a good place to "try it out".
> 
> Good luck


But... didn't you come here before the most recent changes, so therefore what you had to do doesn't corrolate with what eu residents have to do now?


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## Clemmie00

anderso said:


> I know this is an old thread, but just want to throw in a few more optimistic words:
> 
> Valencia is great. I am from Copenhagen and my wife is from London and we both love it here! Commuting, pollution levels and crime levels are all much better here than London, in my opinion. It's certainly not paradise here, but it's close enough. Barcelona is a rougher place.
> 
> Valencia is flat, the climate is amazing and the metro system very efficient. So it's very easy to get around.
> 
> We work with our own business online so are not really affected by the job situation, but I do think it is possible to "give it a shot" here. As long as you plan ahead.
> 
> We got our NIEs at the embassy before moving here. The first week we opened bank accounts with just the NIE and our passports. We then got our padron (registered at the municipality) and proceeded to buy a car. In terms of health service we are covered by our blue EU cards until mid-2014.
> 
> We still pay tax in Denmark, and technically also have to pay tax in Spain, but all taxes paid in Denmark are deducted from the Spanish ones effectively making them nil. So we are not double taxed, and as soon as we have filed for 2012 taxes in Spain we should not need our blue EU cards anymore to keep our green "health cards". These we automatically received the first time we went to the local health centre (centro de salud) and presented our blue EU cards.
> 
> *That's pretty much all we have done. I recently found a Spanish 'economista' who told me that since we have been here more than half of 2012, and are EU citizens, we have automatically become 'residencias', so there is no need to apply separately for a 'recidencia'. *
> 
> So it's actually been pretty straight forward and I if you dream of trying something new in life I certainly wouldn't hold myself back and I can't recommend Valencia enough. Just prepare as much as you can from home. Get your NIE. Contact work places where you think there might be a chance of securing a job. Etc. etc.
> 
> BTW. We see a professional Spanish teacher (who also teaches English) once a week and in her opinion, the crisis is "inspiring" a lot of Spanish people to learn English so they'll have more opportunities in the future. At the same time, Valencia is far behind Madrid and Barcelona in terms of how widely English is spoken, so I would guess that this would indeed be a good place to "try it out".
> 
> Good luck


That's not true. You do need to register, like everyone else. It sounds like she was talking about tax residency, not 'residencia'. You are obliged to register at the extranjeria after 90 days in Spain, regardless of where you come from or how long you'll be here.


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## xabiaxica

anderso said:


> I know this is an old thread, but just want to throw in a few more optimistic words:
> 
> Valencia is great. I am from Copenhagen and my wife is from London and we both love it here! Commuting, pollution levels and crime levels are all much better here than London, in my opinion. It's certainly not paradise here, but it's close enough. Barcelona is a rougher place.
> 
> Valencia is flat, the climate is amazing and the metro system very efficient. So it's very easy to get around.
> 
> We work with our own business online so are not really affected by the job situation, but I do think it is possible to "give it a shot" here. As long as you plan ahead.
> 
> We got our NIEs at the embassy before moving here. The first week we opened bank accounts with just the NIE and our passports. We then got our padron (registered at the municipality) and proceeded to buy a car. In terms of health service we are covered by our blue EU cards until mid-2014.
> 
> We still pay tax in Denmark, and technically also have to pay tax in Spain, but all taxes paid in Denmark are deducted from the Spanish ones effectively making them nil. So we are not double taxed, and as soon as we have filed for 2012 taxes in Spain we should not need our blue EU cards anymore to keep our green "health cards". These we automatically received the first time we went to the local health centre (centro de salud) and presented our blue EU cards.
> 
> That's pretty much all we have done. I recently found a Spanish 'economista' who told me that since we have been here more than half of 2012, and are EU citizens, we have automatically become 'residencias', so there is no need to apply separately for a 'recidencia'.
> 
> So it's actually been pretty straight forward and I if you dream of trying something new in life I certainly wouldn't hold myself back and I can't recommend Valencia enough. Just prepare as much as you can from home. Get your NIE. Contact work places where you think there might be a chance of securing a job. Etc. etc.
> 
> BTW. We see a professional Spanish teacher (who also teaches English) once a week and in her opinion, the crisis is "inspiring" a lot of Spanish people to learn English so they'll have more opportunities in the future. At the same time, Valencia is far behind Madrid and Barcelona in terms of how widely English is spoken, so I would guess that this would indeed be a good place to "try it out".
> 
> Good luck


errmm - your blue EU health cards are for holidays only - your temp SIP cards aren't supposed to be renewed after the initial 90 days - after that you are resident, as you said & can't use the EHIC (your blue card)


did you not register as resident when you got your NIEs - do you have a green resident cert ?


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## anderso

To be honest, I am unsure. We came in March 2012. 

We got our NIEs in early 2012 at the embassy in Copenhagen and that was extremely straight forward. But maybe this would be more diffcult now?

The blue EU cards are still exactly the same, as far as I know, and if you get one of those before leaving home, you should be alright in Spain for a while. I got my first green health card at the centro de salud only a few weeks ago, and all I presented was the blue EU card. The green Spanish one I got is valid for just 6 months, but I was told that I could just have it renewed when it ran out.


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## xabiaxica

anderso said:


> To be honest, I am unsure. We came in March 2012.
> 
> We got our NIEs in early 2012 at the embassy in Copenhagen and that was extremely straight forward. But maybe this would be more diffcult now?
> 
> The blue EU cards are still exactly the same, as far as I know, and if you get one of those before leaving home, you should be alright in Spain for a while. I got my first green health card at the centro de salud only a few weeks ago, and all I presented was the blue EU card. The green Spanish one I got is valid for just 6 months, but I was told that I could just have it renewed when it ran out.


yes, you came before the changes - but see my post above re: the blue card


if you are paying tax etc in Denmark, then you should be able to get forms S1 from there, which will give you access to state healthcare here officially


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## Pesky Wesky

anderso said:


> To be honest, I am unsure. We came in March 2012.
> 
> We got our NIEs in early 2012 at the embassy in Copenhagen and that was extremely straight forward. But maybe this would be more diffcult now?
> 
> The blue EU cards are still exactly the same, as far as I know, and if you get one of those before leaving home, you should be alright in Spain for a while. I got my first green health card at the centro de salud only a few weeks ago, and all I presented was the blue EU card. The green Spanish one I got is valid for just 6 months, but I was told that I could just have it renewed when it ran out.


To be honest anderso, although you were trying to make an optimistic post, as far as papers go I'm not so sure you've got everything sorted out. I would follow xabiachica's advice.
Also the residencia is a bit of a misnomer. What eu citizens have to do is register. You then receive a certificate saying that you have registered on the foreigner's list. This may or may not have to renewed every few months depending on the region and the changes in the law which are fairly frquent atm, or even on the person who attends you.
Maybe that is what you are talking about when you say the green card. My health card is blue and white. They differ from region to region.


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## xabiaxica

Pesky Wesky said:


> To be honest anderso, although you were trying to make an optimistic post, as far as papers go I'm not so sure you've got everything sorted out. I would follow xabiachica's advice.
> Also the residencia is a bit of a misnomer. What eu citizens have to do is register. You then receive a certificate saying that you have registered on the foreigner's list. This may or may not have to renewed every few months depending on the region and the changes in the law which are fairly frquent atm, or even on the person who attends you.
> Maybe that is what you are talking about when you say the green card. My health card is blue and white. They differ from region to region.


our health cards in the Valencia region are green & white - the permanent ones are proper plastic like a credit cards, the temporary ones are flimsy plasticised card - I think that's what anderso has....

they issue these to desplazados/visitors on showing their blue EHIC card & to those awaiting their permanent cards

they aren't usually supposed to be renewable - you have either left the country/area by the time it has expired, or you are entitled to a permanent one by virtue of being plugged into the system by way of contributions


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## anderso

Clemmie00 said:


> That's not true. You do need to register, like everyone else. It sounds like she was talking about tax residency, not 'residencia'. You are obliged to register at the extranjeria after 90 days in Spain, regardless of where you come from or how long you'll be here.


That's interesting. Do you know how/when this would be checked by the authorities? Or in what situations I would need to present documentation for 'residencia'?

As written, we have been here almost a year, are registered with the municipality, receive health care with our green cards, have bank accounts, own a car, pay our utilities etc. without ever having needed any residencia documentation.

So I'd like to understand why/how this is needed. Thanks ...


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## xabiaxica

anderso said:


> That's interesting. Do you know how/when this would be checked by the authorities? Or in what situations I would need to present documentation for 'residencia'?
> 
> As written, we have been here almost a year, are registered with the municipality, receive health care with our green cards, have bank accounts, own a car, pay our utilities etc. without ever having needed any residencia documentation.
> 
> So I'd like to understand why/how this is needed. Thanks ...


more & more these days we are asked to show our resident certs - for example, you can't open a resident bank account without one

are you sure that's what you have - if not you'll be paying non-res tax & fees & they are way more than for residents

it hardly matters in any case - it's a requirement.....


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## anderso

xabiachica said:


> our health cards in the Valencia region are green & white - the permanent ones are proper plastic like a credit cards, the temporary ones are flimsy plasticised card - I think that's what anderso has....
> 
> they issue these to desplazados/visitors on showing their blue EHIC card & to those awaiting their permanent cards
> 
> they aren't usually supposed to be renewable - you have either left the country/area by the time it has expired, or you are entitled to a permanent one by virtue of being plugged into the system by way of contributions


Yes, quite right. This is a temporary SIP card that is green and white. As written it is valid for 6 months and, according to the nice lady behind the desk, renewable.

Xabiachica is also very right about the S1 form. But everything is running pretty smoothly, so we haven't really bothered yet.


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## anderso

xabiachica said:


> more & more these days we are asked to show our resident certs - for example, you can't open a resident bank account without one
> 
> are you sure that's what you have - if not you'll be paying non-res tax & fees & they are way more than for residents
> 
> it hardly matters in any case - it's a requirement.....


I'm pretty sure. We have standard, Spanish bank accounts that work very well and have no horrifying fees.

I tend to have a pragmatic approach to bureaucracy. If and when needed ... Never really got into any trouble because of it.


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## xabiaxica

anderso said:


> Yes, quite right. This is a temporary SIP card that is green and white. As written it is valid for 6 months and, according to the nice lady behind the desk, renewable.
> 
> Xabiachica is also very right about the S1 form. But everything is running pretty smoothly, so we haven't really bothered yet.


I'd get that S1 asap if I were you

just because the nice lady said it would be renewed, doesn't mean it will be... & you could find yourself without healthcare or a even presented with a big bill - I know people it has happened to

since you can get the S1s & prove income, I can see no earthly reason why you wouldn't get your paperwork in order tbh

of course, if you'd registered when you first arrived as you should have, you wouldn't need to prove either....


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## Pesky Wesky

anderso said:


> That's interesting. Do you know how/when this would be checked by the authorities? Or in what situations I would need to present documentation for 'residencia'?
> 
> As written, we have been here almost a year, are registered with the municipality, receive health care with our green cards, have bank accounts, own a car, pay our utilities etc. without ever having needed any residencia documentation.
> 
> So I'd like to understand why/how this is needed. Thanks ...


Up to now I've only been asked for mine at the bank once, and to go on and off autónomo, but it's irrelevant as it's a legal requirement to have this certificate. 
And if you were ever stopped by the police in your car for example you'd most probably be asked for it. I have never been stopped by the police, but plenty of forum users have!


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## xabiaxica

anderso said:


> I'm pretty sure. We have standard, Spanish bank accounts that work very well and have no horrifying fees.
> 
> I tend to have a pragmatic approach to bureaucracy. If and when needed ... Never really got into any trouble because of it.


wait til you are charged non-res tax.....


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## Pesky Wesky

anderso said:


> I tend to have a pragmatic approach to bureaucracy. If and when needed ... Never really got into any trouble because of it.


It's needed now, but it's your decision whether you put things in order or not.


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## anderso

Thanks Xabiachica and Peskywesky. The reason for taking this slowly is that 1) Bureaucracy is tedious and 2) We work a lot, so stuff like this always end up at the bottom of the list. 

I'll be sure to sort out that S1 before the SIP runs out, but I find it hard to believe that not registering for residencia could result in a tax penalty if you have actually declared your taxes correctly. But maybe I'm wrong. Spain is a colourful place ...


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## Pesky Wesky

anderso said:


> Thanks Xabiachica and Peskywesky. The reason for taking this slowly is that 1) Bureaucracy is tedious and 2) We work a lot, so stuff like this always end up at the bottom of the list.


I know, I know, I know 
Don't leave it too late though


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## Justina

I don't think I am allowed to advertise but google in english teaching jobs in spain and also check out a well known British paper which has loads of jobs each week, not just for Spain.


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## jojo

Justina said:


> I don't think I am allowed to advertise but google in english teaching jobs in spain and also check out a well known British paper which has loads of jobs each week, not just for Spain.



As a regular poster, you can mention them as long as you dont work for them or make a habit of it lol!!! 

Jo xxx


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## xabiaxica

Justina said:


> I don't think I am allowed to advertise but google in english teaching jobs in spain and also check out a well known British paper which has loads of jobs each week, not just for Spain.


as long as you have no business or personal connections with the companies concerned then please provide links


that's what the forum is all about - the sharing of information


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## Justina

Thank you, it is just that quite by chance I found a site called jobrapido and it has literally loads of jobs for English teachers. There is also the Times Educational Supplement which appears weekly and has jobs for different subjects and natch all over the world.
I do think it is safer to have a job before one arrives or a healthy bank account.


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## xabiaxica

Justina said:


> Thank you, it is just that quite by chance I found a site called jobrapido and it has literally loads of jobs for English teachers. There is also the Times Educational Supplement which appears weekly and has jobs for different subjects and natch all over the world.
> *I do think it is safer to have a job before one arrives or a healthy bank account.*


it's essential - you can't register as resident without one or the other - or an income from elsewhere


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## Justina

The other problem which has just occurred to me is that it is not easy to rent a flat without having the permanent residency. I found my flat while I still had a temporary visa but fortunately was able to use my son as my guarantor as he has lived and worked here for over two years. I also had to show my permanent residency before being able to open a bank account.


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## Pesky Wesky

Justina said:


> Thank you, it is just that quite by chance I found a site called jobrapido and it has literally loads of jobs for English teachers. There is also the Times Educational Supplement which appears weekly and has jobs for different subjects and natch all over the world.
> I do think it is safer to have a job before one arrives or a healthy bank account.


Unfortunately, the jobs on jobrapido are not usually very good. There are lots of "clases a domicilio" companies that have sprung up in the last five years that pay very low, around 12€ an hour.
Infojobs is a little better, tefl.com. TES tends to have more jobs for primary and secondary school teachers than academy work. It's where I got my first teaching job from.


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## Justina

Out of interest what is regarded as










Pesky Wesky, out of interest what would be regarded as a reasonable pay per hour?


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## Pesky Wesky

Justina said:


> Out of interest what is regarded as
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pesky Wesky, out of interest what would be regarded as a reasonable pay per hour?


Well it would depend enormously on


 the region,
 what kind of teaching, (in company, children, exam prep, intensives...)
qualifications and experience of the teacher
what kind of establishment (international school, academy, company...)
But on the website you mentioned I saw several jobs paid at 12€ an hour, which I think is poor rate for Madrid. I would think 18€ - 24 for academy work and up to 30€ for company work through an academy (top rate, experienced qualified teachers) and up to 35€ for company work self employed. These would probably be rates paid per class ie no paid holidays. Academy rates may be lower, but you get Sept - June paid including holidays. Of course there are those thatcharge more and those that charge less and this is only for Madrid.


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## Pesky Wesky

Pesky Wesky said:


> Well it would depend enormously on
> 
> 
> the region,
> what kind of teaching, (in company, children, exam prep, intensives...)
> qualifications and experience of the teacher
> what kind of establishment (international school, academy, company...)
> But on the website you mentioned I saw several jobs paid at 12€ an hour, which I think is poor rate for Madrid. I would think 18€ - 24 for academy work and up to 30€ for company work through an academy (top rate, experienced qualified teachers) and up to 35€ for company work self employed. These would probably be rates paid per class ie no paid holidays. Academy rates may be lower, but you get Sept - June paid including holidays. Of course there are those thatcharge more and those that charge less and this is only for Madrid.


Just wanted to clarify this.
When I say academy work in the green bit, I mean doing the odd class.
When I say academy work in the blue bit, I mean full time in one academy.
And to add ...
I have had an ad on internet for several years which has always brought in a constant stream of enquiries and the beginning of September and after Christmas huge amount of calls and mails, but they dwindled and dried up entirely at around May. I managed to scrape through and have once again got a full timetable, bursting in fact. 
The last week it's gone mad again. I've had about 10 enquires ( not a full contract or anything like that) but a couple of hours, here a couple there - and I can't do any of it!!


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## anderso

For what it is worth: Our fully trained and professional Spanish teacher that comes to our house charges 15 Euro/hour - no extra for the transport.


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## gus-lopez

Pesky Wesky said:


> Well it would depend enormously on
> 
> 
> the region,
> what kind of teaching, (in company, children, exam prep, intensives...)
> qualifications and experience of the teacher
> what kind of establishment (international school, academy, company...)
> But on the website you mentioned I saw several jobs paid at 12€ an hour, which I think is poor rate for Madrid. I would think 18€ - 24 for academy work and up to 30€ for company work through an academy (top rate, experienced qualified teachers) and up to 35€ for company work self employed. These would probably be rates paid per class ie no paid holidays. Academy rates may be lower, but you get Sept - June paid including holidays. Of course there are those thatcharge more and those that charge less and this is only for Madrid.


They only dream of those amounts here.


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## Pesky Wesky

gus-lopez said:


> They only dream of those amounts here.


I dare say,but don't forget that this is the capital and surroundings. Just as London prices are different to the rest of the country, the same in Madrid, but of course our costs are more too!


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## Pesky Wesky

anderso said:


> For what it is worth: Our fully trained and professional Spanish teacher that comes to our house charges 15 Euro/hour - no extra for the transport.


Yes, Spanish is cheaper than English. Don't ask me why, I didn't make the "rules"!


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## gus-lopez

Pesky Wesky said:


> I dare say,but don't forget that this is the capital and surroundings. Just as London prices are different to the rest of the country, the same in Madrid, but of course our costs are more too!


Very true. The 12€ would be like winning the lottery though ! :clap2:


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## Juliegrey

that was a very negative view od spain, I too am a teacher who just retired early and am looking to move to Spain and teach a little.


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