# an FBAR tip



## jimmo-san

If you have a financial interest in 25 or more accounts, then you do not need to list all of the accounts individually. You can skip Parts II and III of Form TD F 90.22-1. See line 14 of the form.

I had been filling out Form TD F 90.22-1 for many years, possibly since the inception of FBAR. I can’t recall if in 2009 the form changed, or if I finally exceeded 25 accounts in that year. In any case, I no longer fill out the entire form, just Part I. (It’s actually quite easy to exceed 25 accounts, if you consider the number of savings accounts, RRSPs, TFSAs, RESPs, etc. that you may have.)

It is my opinion that unless you are engaged in money-laundering, running a crystal-meth lab or grow-op in your basement or managing a hedge fund, you should have nothing to fear from FBAR.


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## Cafreeb12

Thanks for the tip. I hope you are right but, that's not what we've been threatened with. Ten thousand dollars for every year you didn't file FBAR is the threat.


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## Peg

jimmo-san said:


> It is my opinion that unless you are engaged in money-laundering, running a crystal-meth lab or grow-op in your basement or managing a hedge fund, you should have nothing to fear from FBAR.


It is still not necessary for me to share the personal information of my husband who is a Canadian as well as the volunteer organizations for which I am Treasurer when I already report everything to Canada.

I only heard of FBARs on September 7 and from reading articles was definitely fearful that they would penalize me and I filed under OVDI (although I am opting out). A couple of weeks later the IRS chief congratulated himself for the "tax cheats" caught with the OVDI. It was not until yesterday, October 18, that the US Ambassador to Canada said we did not need to worry. 

Many of the articles were written in July and earlier yet it took the US Government until October 18 to tell us they won't penalize Grandmas - and we can hope any of us with similar stories because my kids are too young to make me a Grandma yet!

I do not have faith in the country of my birth that let me and thousands, if not millions, of other US Citizens concerned about keeping our hard-earned-and-not-in-the-US savings!


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## Cafreeb12

I agree Peg, and what we are all going through is just a snap shot on this board. How many others don't have a way to speak out about what they have been put through. Even if they don't penalize me a dime *and they might* this fear mongering and then GLOATING in the U.S. press about it while calling us all "tax cheats" and "criminals" was a bridge too far. Do you think they are going to print an article in the WSJ and "The Hill" rectifying their mistake here? I doubt it. I am like you Peg, I don't trust they won't come after "grandmas" whatever that little stereotype was supposed to mean. They sure are coming after retired, working class and poor families and bragging about it in the U.S. press.


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## AmTaker

jimmo-san said:


> If you have a financial interest in 25 or more accounts, then you do not need to list all of the accounts individually. You can skip Parts II and III of Form TD F 90.22-1. See line 14 of the form.
> 
> I had been filling out Form TD F 90.22-1 for many years, possibly since the inception of FBAR. I can’t recall if in 2009 the form changed, or if I finally exceeded 25 accounts in that year. In any case, I no longer fill out the entire form, just Part I. (It’s actually quite easy to exceed 25 accounts, if you consider the number of savings accounts, RRSPs, TFSAs, RESPs, etc. that you may have.)
> 
> It is my opinion that unless you are engaged in money-laundering, running a crystal-meth lab or grow-op in your basement or managing a hedge fund, you should have nothing to fear from FBAR.


Actually, there is NO FBAR reporting for accounts at non US hedge funds. So if you manage a hedge fund, there is nothing to fear from FBAR 

More seriously, if one is a US resident and/or have been filing US returns for years and not including foreign income or showing foreign accounts, then there is probably some reason to be concerned (if not fearful) about FBARs.


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## jimmo-san

AmTaker said:


> Actually, there is NO FBAR reporting for accounts at non US hedge funds. So if you manage a hedge fund, there is nothing to fear from FBAR


I stand corrected - the Bernie Madoffs of Canada will breathe a sigh of relief! 

After many years of paying no U.S. tax, this year I had to pay $317.32. The IRS corrected my return and sent me a cheque for $127.18, and reminded me that that amount included interest of $0.86 and that I should include that $0.86 of interest in my 2011 income.

God bless the IRS!


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## Mona Lisa76

jimmo-san said:


> If you have a financial interest in 25 or more accounts, then you do not need to list all of the accounts individually. You can skip Parts II and III of Form TD F 90.22-1. See line 14 of the form.
> 
> I had been filling out Form TD F 90.22-1 for many years, possibly since the inception of FBAR. I can’t recall if in 2009 the form changed, or if I finally exceeded 25 accounts in that year. In any case, I no longer fill out the entire form, just Part I. (It’s actually quite easy to exceed 25 accounts, if you consider the number of savings accounts, RRSPs, TFSAs, RESPs, etc. that you may have.)
> 
> It is my opinion that unless you are engaged in money-laundering, running a crystal-meth lab or grow-op in your basement or managing a hedge fund, you should have nothing to fear from FBAR.


This what I did: listed something like 43 accounts but wonder if I'll be receiving a questionnaire from Detroit about what these numerous accounts consist of. I figured that even accounts such as travel cards and pre-paid cellphone sims could be considered financial accounts since cash balances canbe loaded onto them and thus theoretically used for laundering...ditto with paypal and alertpay accounts which coulf be used for transfering cash.


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## Guest

Mona Lisa76 said:


> This what I did: listed something like 43 accounts but wonder if I'll be receiving a questionnaire from Detroit about what these numerous accounts consist of. I figured that even accounts such as travel cards and pre-paid cellphone sims could be considered financial accounts since cash balances canbe loaded onto them and thus theoretically used for laundering...ditto with paypal and alertpay accounts which coulf be used for transfering cash.


Love it. Swamp the ******s with paper. :clap2:Reminds me of the conflict-of-interest forms our government wanted public servants to fill out, listing every mutual fund and stock they owned. I advised all our union members to file daily conflict of interest updates based on that day's stock market reports and to do it on office time. A few days later, the stupid reporting requirement was dropped or significantly re-worked, I forget which. My recollection it was replaced with a simple memo saying you could lose your job or go to jail if you did anything at work that personally benefitted your investment portfolio, fair enough, and that was the end of it.


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## Mona Lisa76

Schubert said:


> Love it. Swamp the ******s with paper. :clap2:Reminds me of the conflict-of-interest forms our government wanted public servants to fill out, listing every mutual fund and stock they owned. I advised all our union members to file daily conflict of interest updates based on that day's stock market reports and to do it on office time. A few days later, the stupid reporting requirement was dropped or significantly re-worked, I forget which. My recollection it was replaced with a simple memo saying you could lose your job or go to jail if you did anything at work that personally benefitted your investment portfolio, fair enough, and that was the end of it.


Lol, my four years of amended returns came to 580 pages and 2011 will probably be around 200-250 pages, especially with the new fatca 8938 forms coming in (which I understand will have to be retroactively filed back to the 2011 tax year, even though probably won't come out till sometime next year).

Let's hope the whole fatca fiasco will be shelved though...


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## Zaccheus

Just a quick tip if trying to figure amounts in USD for FBAR:
the Bank of Canada website has a 10 year currency converter...you just plug in your CAD amount for a particular day, and the amount is then listed in USD (or whatever currency you choose). A lot easier than trying to do the math yourself. I imagine the Bank of Canada rate would be reputable enough, EH?

Zaccheus


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## Peg

I used an Excel spreadsheet and put in my Canadian figures in one column then the exchange rate and then did a calculation for the US amount. I found this worked well since I could easily check my original Canadian amounts. I've read here on the forum that for the FBAR you use the end of year exchange rate. Whereas for the IRS you use the average rate which was found on the IRS website.


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