# Irish Resident with UK passport



## smileyclaire_s (Apr 3, 2021)

Hi,

We are looking to move to Spain however struggling with info on residency visa .... We have a house in Ireland where we have lived for over 5 years and I have an Irish drivers license my partner has an Irish business but we both have UK passports .. do we need to apply to live in Spain if moving from Ireland ? I know the process is different ah it’s confusing ha
Thanks


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

Fundamentally you are UK citizens so I'm presuming, and it is simply a presumption, you will have to apply as UK citizens via the new regulations and visa route.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

smileyclaire_s said:


> Hi,
> 
> We are looking to move to Spain however struggling with info on residency visa .... We have a house in Ireland where we have lived for over 5 years and I have an Irish drivers license my partner has an Irish business but we both have UK passports .. do we need to apply to live in Spain if moving from Ireland ? I know the process is different ah it’s confusing ha
> Thanks


It doesn't matter where you are resident, but your passport / nationality dictates whether or not you need a visa.

As British nationals you will have to apply for - and attain - a visa before coming to live in Spain.

You apply via the nearest Spanish consulate to where you live - but here is info about visa requirements. They're the same no matter which Consulate you apply through.






Visas (FAQ)







www.exteriores.gob.es





The Irish driving licence might make that side of things easier.


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## smileyclaire_s (Apr 3, 2021)

Megsmum said:


> Fundamentally you are UK citizens so I'm presuming, and it is simply a presumption, you will have to apply as UK citizens via the new regulations and visa route.


Thank you for your reply ! Just on the application of it says address I don’t have a UK one and before my house in Ireland I lived in Portugal for 3 years. I will take another look at the UK citizen application


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## smileyclaire_s (Apr 3, 2021)

xabiaxica said:


> It doesn't matter where you are resident, but your passport / nationality dictates whether or not you need a visa.
> 
> As British nationals you will have to apply for - and attain - a visa before coming to live in Spain.
> 
> ...


Honestly thank you for your help


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## ALKB (Jan 20, 2012)

smileyclaire_s said:


> Hi,
> 
> We are looking to move to Spain however struggling with info on residency visa .... We have a house in Ireland where we have lived for over 5 years and I have an Irish drivers license my partner has an Irish business but we both have UK passports .. do we need to apply to live in Spain if moving from Ireland ? I know the process is different ah it’s confusing ha
> Thanks


Would you be eligible to naturalise as Irish?


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## ALKB (Jan 20, 2012)

smileyclaire_s said:


> Thank you for your reply ! Just on the application of it says address I don’t have a UK one and before my house in Ireland I lived in Portugal for 3 years. I will take another look at the UK citizen application


You don't need a UK address to be a UK citizen.


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## smileyclaire_s (Apr 3, 2021)

ALKB said:


> Would you be eligible to naturalise as Irish?


Yes I could but I think the fee is something like 1500 per person if I remember correctly 

ah ha ha I know I don’t need an English address To be an English citizen was just wanting to know if I needed a different form  thank you for your response  gave me something to think about !


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## xicoalc (Apr 20, 2010)

xabiaxica said:


> It doesn't matter where you are resident, but your passport / nationality dictates whether or not you need a visa.
> 
> As British nationals you will have to apply for - and attain - a visa before coming to live in Spain.
> 
> ...


Is it me, am i the only one?

Obviously what you say is totally correct. But every time I read things like this I feel sad for the countless people who'll never have that chance I had, we had.... To choose a life and live it. 

The whole thing now is very sad for the future generations of brits, and Europeans who will probably not even contemplate the things that we simply accepted as normal and lur rights 

So sad


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

h


xicoalc said:


> Is it me, am i the only one?
> 
> Obviously what you say is totally correct. But every time I read things like this I feel sad for the countless people who'll never have that chance I had, we had.... To choose a life and live it.
> 
> ...


The counter-argument I often read from those who supported Brexit is that freedom of movement for UK citizens was not an important issue to them because many people could either never afford to move to another country before, or had no interest in doing so. But I am damned if I can see how voting to take away those rights from those who DO want to make that move will have made anything any easier for the people who felt they couldn't take advantage of those opportunities before, or improved their lives in any way. It just seems to be a case of "if I can't have something, I'll make sure other people can't have it either". Ironically it is those "elites" they got so angry about whose ability to move anywhere they choose will not be affected.


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## smileyclaire_s (Apr 3, 2021)

xicoalc said:


> Is it me, am i the only one?
> 
> Obviously what you say is totally correct. But every time I read things like this I feel sad for the countless people who'll never have that chance I had, we had.... To choose a life and live it.
> 
> ...


I think your spot on there when I was 18 I decided to move to France then Spain then Italy, Holland and Portugal the List is endless I haven’t lived in the UK for over15 years and it’s been the best experience building an amazing life it’s a shame this will obviously effect future generations to have the same experience !


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

smileyclaire_s said:


> Thank you for your reply ! Just on the application of it says address I don’t have a UK one and before my house in Ireland I lived in Portugal for 3 years. I will take another look at the UK citizen application


Residency in any country is based on your citizenship not your address. Unfortunately you will have to go down the visa process


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## smileyclaire_s (Apr 3, 2021)

Megsmum said:


> Residency in any country is based on your citizenship not your address. Unfortunately you will have to go down the visa process


I don’t mind going down the visa route it will be worth it 


Megsmum said:


> Residency in any country is based on your citizenship not your address. Unfortunately you will have to go down the visa process


I don’t mind going down the visa route it will be worth it in the end  there is something I read that said if I lived and had residency in another EU country before Brexit then It should be easier so fingers crossed !


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## xicoalc (Apr 20, 2010)

smileyclaire_s said:


> I think your spot on there when I was 18 I decided to move to France then Spain then Italy, Holland and Portugal the List is endless I haven’t lived in the UK for over15 years and it’s been the best experience building an amazing life it’s a shame this will obviously effect future generations to have the same experience !


Couldn't agree more. Ive grown as a person, ive learned cultures, I've learned to accept and learned how it is to be accepted. 

RIP freedom of movement


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## MataMata (Nov 30, 2008)

smileyclaire_s said:


> there is something I read that said if I lived and had residency in another EU country before Brexit then It should be easier so fingers crossed !


You may have seen something about the EU arrangement whereby non EU citizens who have 10 years legal residence in one member state can apply to transfer their residence to another.

From what you've said none of that would appear to apply to you nor is it affected by Brexit.

A possible question arises insomuch as in the sense of that arrangement could or would recently disenfranchised British citizens with 10 years of residency be retroactively classified as non EU citizens and entitled to benefit from it.

Unfortunately that sits in the same column as many other unasked and unanswered questions.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

smileyclaire_s said:


> I don’t mind going down the visa route it will be worth it
> 
> I don’t mind going down the visa route it will be worth it in the end  there is something I read that said if I lived and had residency in another EU country before Brexit then It should be easier so fingers crossed !


All that means is that if you have had residency in an EU state prior to 1st January 2022, you will have the right to stay on in that country, but nowhere else, i.e. there is no onward freedom of movement for British citizen. So in your case you can carry on living in Ireland (of course as being in the common travel area, any British citizen has the right to move and live in Ireland, and vice versa regardless of Brexit).
Naturalisation fees for Ireland are 175 euro at time of application and 950 euro to get your naturalisation certificate.


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## ALKB (Jan 20, 2012)

smileyclaire_s said:


> Yes I could but I think the fee is something like 1500 per person if I remember correctly


Were I British, that would be a no brainer for me.

Irish citizenship would be for life and as long as there is freedom of movement and Ireland is in the EU, you'd have your pick of countries to live in without jumping through hoops.

Do you meet all the requirements for a Spanish visa?

What if, at some point in the future you want to move country again and have to find out that goal posts for third country nationals have been moved in the meantime and you don't qualify?


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## smileyclaire_s (Apr 3, 2021)

ALKB said:


> Were I British, that would be a no brainer for me.
> 
> Irish citizenship would be for life and as long as there is freedom of movement and Ireland is in the EU, you'd have your pick of countries to live in without jumping through hoops.
> 
> ...


Its a difficult one all of my family is in the UK I have thought about getting Irish citizenship and I could but maybe something to think about more closely
As for a Spanish visa I don’t see why I wouldn’t get one I have read the requirements so i will apply and hopefully the home that I want to buy will still be there


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## ALKB (Jan 20, 2012)

smileyclaire_s said:


> Its a difficult one all of my family is in the UK I have thought about getting Irish citizenship and I could but maybe something to think about more closely
> As for a Spanish visa I don’t see why I wouldn’t get one I have read the requirements so i will apply and hopefully the home that I want to buy will still be there


As far as I know both the UK and Ireland allow dual citizenship - what does your family being in the UK have to do with anything?


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## smileyclaire_s (Apr 3, 2021)

ALKB said:


> As far as I know both the UK and Ireland allow dual citizenship - what does your family being in the UK have to do with anything?


I just didn’t want to complicate things if I ever needed to go back and live in England if my parents were unwell Which is why I would be hesitant to give up UK citizenship but thank you for pointing out that I could get dual citizenship I didn’t realise I could do that so it’s worth looking into


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## NickZ (Jun 26, 2009)

smileyclaire_s said:


> Hi,
> 
> We are looking to move to Spain however struggling with info on residency visa .... We have a house in Ireland where we have lived for over 5 years and I have an Irish drivers license my partner has an Irish business but we both have UK passports .. do we need to apply to live in Spain if moving from Ireland ? I know the process is different ah it’s confusing ha
> Thanks











Already in the EU?


On these pages you can find general information on what rules apply if you are a non-EU citizen already in an EU country.




ec.europa.eu





If you've been in Ireland for more than five years you might be able to apply for long term residence status. Once you have that you don't need a visa



> *As a long-term resident in one EU country, can I live and work in a second EU country?*
> 
> Yes. You can stay in a second EU country for more than three months for purposes including work, study or training, if you apply for and are granted a residence permit in this second country.


You'd basically be back to the old pre brexit rules.


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

smileyclaire_s said:


> I just didn’t want to complicate things if I ever needed to go back and live in England if my parents were unwell Which is why I would be hesitant to give up UK citizenship but thank you for pointing out that I could get dual citizenship I didn’t realise I could do that so it’s worth looking into


I have dual citizenship Irish and UK By birth. I'd go down the naturalization route it's a non brainer for me, and the costs should be irrelevant compared to the income requirements for a visa etc


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

Lynn R said:


> h
> 
> 
> The counter-argument I often read from those who supported Brexit is that freedom of movement for UK citizens was not an important issue to them because many people could either never afford to move to another country before, or had no interest in doing so. But I am damned if I can see how voting to take away those rights from those who DO want to make that move will have made anything any easier for the people who felt they couldn't take advantage of those opportunities before, or improved their lives in any way. It just seems to be a case of "if I can't have something, I'll make sure other people can't have it either". Ironically it is those "elites" they got so angry about whose ability to move anywhere they choose will not be affected.


I think that proves how pointless and negative Brexit was. It was never about improving one's situation, more about restricting other's


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## MataMata (Nov 30, 2008)

Neither Irish nor Spanish citizenship means surrendering UK citizenship. 

Spain does not allow dual citizenship but all that really means is that once you've taken it up you are considered Spanish and as such can no longer use a UK passport for anything either in or to do with Spain. You do not have to surrender it though and you could return to UK at any time and resume residence as if you'd never left.

Actually surrendering UK citizenship requires a deliberate act which involves going through a defined and complex legal procedure and can't be done without positive and irrevocable proof of citizenship elsewhere, i.e. you cannot make yourself stateless.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

smileyclaire_s said:


> Thank you for your reply ! Just on the application of it says address I don’t have a UK one and before my house in Ireland I lived in Portugal for 3 years. I will take another look at the UK citizen application





NickZ said:


> Already in the EU?
> 
> 
> On these pages you can find general information on what rules apply if you are a non-EU citizen already in an EU country.
> ...


Our rights to move to live & work in another EU country were _not _protected in the WA, unfortunately.


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## NickZ (Jun 26, 2009)

xabiaxica said:


> Our rights to move to live & work in another EU country were _not _protected in the WA, unfortunately.


The five year resident rule applies to third nation citizens. If the OP can get that status they're like any other third country citizen with permanent rights


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

NickZ said:


> The five year resident rule applies to third nation citizens. If the OP can get that status they're like any other third country citizen with permanent rights


It isn't an automatic right though.

Even a permanent resident of an EU country has to apply for and be issued a resident visa in another EU country. Possibly it would be slightly easier than for someone without permanent residency, but noting like as easy as it was a few months ago. 

Employers want to employ those who don't need a visa - it's as simple as that. My daughter has been working all over the EU for the past few years. Even former employers who had previously asked her to return, won't employ her now, because of the 'hassle' of the British passport.

In theory it might be simple. Inreal life it truly isn't. 




> *As a long-term resident in one EU country, can I live and work in a second EU country?*
> Yes. You can stay in a second EU country for more than three months for purposes including work, study or training,* if you apply for and are granted a residence permit in this second country.*
> To obtain a residence permit for a second EU country, you may have to show that you have one or more of the following:
> 
> ...











Already in the EU?


On these pages you can find general information on what rules apply if you are a non-EU citizen already in an EU country.




ec.europa.eu


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## NickZ (Jun 26, 2009)

xabiaxica said:


> Even a permanent resident of an EU country has to apply for and be issued a resident visa in another EU country.


It's not a visa. It's the same process EU citizens have to deal with. If I moved to Spain I'd still need to prove health care,income etc. In spite of having an EU passport.

Long term residence gives third nation citizens those same rights. 

You're right it's not automatic but it's not automatic for EU citizens either. The same public safety rule exists. Not that that is easy to enforce.


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

This was highlighted very early on. UK nationals resident in EU countries do not have the same rights to free movement as EU citizens. You require visas if you wish to reside more than 90 days. UK nationals resident in Ireland before Brexit do not have free movement to Spain as other EU citizens will have


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## NickZ (Jun 26, 2009)

kaipa said:


> This was highlighted very early on. UK nationals resident in EU countries do not have the same rights to free movement as EU citizens.


But do they have the same rights that other third country nationals do?


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## alpinist (Feb 8, 2009)

smileyclaire_s said:


> I just didn’t want to complicate things if I ever needed to go back and live in England if my parents were unwell Which is why I would be hesitant to give up UK citizenship but thank you for pointing out that I could get dual citizenship I didn’t realise I could do that so it’s worth looking into


You don't have to give up UK citizenship and Irish nationality won't have any impact at all on living in the UK. Even if you did give up your UK citizenship, the UK and Ireland share a common travel area (CTA) which is like a mini European Union. Irish citizens can work, access social security, and do almost everything in the UK that Brits can. Common Travel Area between Ireland and the United Kingdom (citizensinformation.ie)


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

NickZ said:


> But do they have the same rights that other third country nationals do?


I should imagine they do not in respect to this particular area. It was one of the first things made clear to UK nationals at the time of the ratification debate. We are only allowed residency in EU countries we were in prior to Brexit. After Brexit we require visas if we wish to reside in any other EU country. This was highlighted early on as it affected persons who worked and lived in separate EU countries.


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## NickZ (Jun 26, 2009)

kaipa said:


> I should imagine they do not in respect to this particular area. It was one of the first things made clear to UK nationals at the time of the ratification debate. We are only allowed residency in EU countries we were in prior to Brexit. After Brexit we require visas if we wish to reside in any other EU country. This was highlighted early on as it affected persons who worked and lived in separate EU countries.


The idea that EU is capable of giving UK citizens less rights than Japanese,Americans, South Africans etc ignores what the EU has done over the years. 

Trying to give UK citizens less rights would likely be thrown out by the first judge that it came before.

Remember we're talking about the same judges that won't let you deport convicted murders because there is no proof they represent a security risk.


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

NickZ said:


> The idea that EU is capable of giving UK citizens less rights than Japanese,Americans, South Africans etc ignores what the EU has done over the years.
> 
> Trying to give UK citizens less rights would likely be thrown out by the first judge that it came before.
> 
> Remember we're talking about the same judges that won't let you deport convicted murders because there is no proof they represent a security risk.


I am not sure what your point is. I dont think any 3rd country citizen is allowed to gain residency in any EU country without a Visa. The only way you have free movement is if you are a EU national. UK nats dont have that right anymore.


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## siobhanwf (Mar 20, 2009)

If you are not entitled to citizenship by birth or descent, you can apply to become an Irish citizen by naturalisation if:
*1. You have lived in Ireland legally for 5 out of the last 9 years ending on the day before your application*

You have resided in Ireland legally for the 12 month period before your application


smileyclaire_s said:


> Hi,
> 
> We are looking to move to Spain however struggling with info on residency visa .... We have a house in Ireland where we have lived for over 5 years and I have an Irish drivers license my partner has an Irish business but we both have UK passports .. do we need to apply to live in Spain if moving from Ireland ? I know the process is different ah it’s confusing ha
> Thanks


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