# Ramadan - Contentious Thread



## Andy Capp (Oct 5, 2008)

Now this is my 5th (I think) Ramadan here, and yes I don't take the pee by drinking etc. in public.

BUT.

Two things made my blood boil today.

1) Having a cup of tea in the garden of a hotel in Ajman (not tricky to guess which one), bloke came over said I was being disrespectful, I said as I am not a Muslim (I'm an agnostic leaning towrds atheism) and as the hotel served the tea I kindly suggested he take it up with the management.

To cut a long story short he left, after a long and animated argument with the bosses there basically being carted off by security. I said a quiet "Cheers" with my cup of Earl Grey!

2) At Iftar (the mosques were going, it had been announced on the radio), another complaint - i'm walking to my place, some jumped up arse decided i should be reported to the police. 

I said report away and continued drinking my diet7up on the street. i also said he should maybe either clean his ears out or get a watch.

He wasn't happy.

I didn't care.

Now, the point of this is, that I was doing nothing wrong in either case and it's religious bigots that really, really shouldn't pick an argument with me when i KNOW I'm in the right.

Just as well i wasn't pissed really 

Rant over.


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## Amtobi (Aug 9, 2009)

interesting post, but my question is... is eating in the day time really illegal or just disrespectful? Let's say it was before Iftar, would there have been grounds for arrest?


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## D-Xpat (Aug 29, 2009)

ever watch "Banged up abroad"? We could live with another episode of "Banged up abroad in UAE"


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## Trixiebell (Aug 22, 2009)

Andy Capp said:


> Now this is my 5th (I think) Ramadan here, and yes I don't take the pee by drinking etc. in public.
> 
> BUT.
> 
> ...



Sounds like a good day all round for you, Mr Capp..


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## M123 (Aug 14, 2009)

This is a joke right?

I mean, being bothered by 2 random people just never happens in civilised society.

Once upon a time, I was smoking shisha on Margate beach (in Kent in the UK), and this lady called the police and I ended up getting questioned. (nothing came of it, just a waste of police time and a ten minute interruption to my shisha).

I can understand where she is coming from, no matter how misguided, but I continued with life as normal without much of a fuss or making contentious threads about the alleged ignorant people of kent.

Some religious people with limited education can be a little bit much to handle, even for everyday practicing Muslims, so it's not a big deal as long as no harm came of it.

A little perspective wouldn't go amiss.


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## D-Xpat (Aug 29, 2009)

hmmm I'm actually hoping they arrest him the next time. It would be interesting to watch him writhe in the Al Awir Penitentiary.


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## Andy Capp (Oct 5, 2008)

D-Xpat said:


> hmmm I'm actually hoping they arrest him the next time. It would be interesting to watch him writhe in the Al Awir Penitentiary.


If only you knew - this could go down as the funniest post ever.

And in answer to the previous comments - no it's not a wind up, just something that happened earlier today.

Telling me what i can and can't do? They really are having a laugh - don't they know who i am????


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## D-Xpat (Aug 29, 2009)

lol ! ! !!


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## kandy25 (Sep 7, 2009)

*All this too come*

hahahha, that was funny!!

I have only ever done 1 ramadan before and that was 4 years ago, i have it all to come but luckily it will all be over when i get out.


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## xdude (Dec 8, 2008)

Amtobi said:


> interesting post, but my question is... is eating in the day time really illegal or just disrespectful? Let's say it was before Iftar, would there have been grounds for arrest?


depends..
in certain countries, its both..e.g. saudi
in dubai, its more of later..if caught, you will be politely asked to respect the sentiments..


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## Elphaba (Jan 24, 2008)

In the UAE you can be arrested for eating, drinking or smoking in public during Ramadan. I know a woman who spent several hours at the police station last year for having a soft drink in public. In most cases, you'd be reprimanded, but don't underestimate the possible consequences. 

Hotels and cafes can obtain special licences to serve food and drink in the day. They simply have to be screened from public view. Many places in Dubai are carrying on much as normal, just with big curtains up.

It's an interesting question as my muslim friends really don't feel that not fasting in public should be illegal and that insisting all non-muslims keep up the 'pretence' is against the Islamic principles. Fasting is supposed to be a personal test and removing temptation makes it easier. As does sleeping all day and staying up at night, as many do.

Not eating or drinking in public during the day for a month really isn't hard, but hotel grounds aren't a public place in that sense. Some people do need some more perpective on the matter and a little tolerance. (A bigger issue for me is the appalling driving in the afternoons and the fact I am not allowed to smoke in my car to calm my nerves!)

Ramadan kareem everyone 

-


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## mumofHulk&Spiderman (Aug 19, 2009)

Elphaba said:


> It's an interesting question as my muslim friends really don't feel that not fasting in public should be illegal and that insisting all non-muslims keep up the 'pretence' is against the Islamic principles. Fasting is supposed to be a personal test and removing temptation makes it easier. As does sleeping all day and staying up at night, as many do.



I am in the Uk, and a muslim. I find this a really weird notion that for non-muslims dubai is being so strict about no eating etc during fasting hours. Here in the UK all us muslims continue about our business and the non-muslims would be none the wiser that we are fasting...we dont make such a hoo haa about it...like the Previous poster said its a personal test between a person and Their God

I can understand that you knowingly should tease someone and eat right in front of a person who is fasting, because its rude, and disrespectful, but not illegal, even in islam itself. I mean my kids still eat in front of me as normal, i still have to feed them... i think nothing of it.


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## mcd1203 (Nov 25, 2008)

This is what I find interesting. I'm not muslim, this is our first Ramadan, and we've been very respectful about not eating/drinking in public. But to me I would think the whole fast is suppose to be about the temptation and avoiding it to be purer and closer to their god. But its not hard to avoid the temptation when its not readily available or seen around you.


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## bdb (Apr 24, 2009)

Despite all this "intolerance", I find it quite amusing that everyday soo many non-Muslims (Europeans/Americans) are pouring into the UAE.

I guess money can pretty much buy anything


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## mrbig (Sep 10, 2009)

bdb said:


> Despite all this "intolerance", I find it quite amusing that everyday soo many non-Muslims (Europeans/Americans) are pouring into the UAE.
> 
> I guess money can pretty much buy anything


Generalizing does nothing but cause trouble.
And I for one dont appreciate your comments.
I have done nothing but show respect for the Muslim culture.


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## bdb (Apr 24, 2009)

mrbig said:


> Generalizing does nothing but cause trouble.
> And I for one dont appreciate your comments.
> I have done nothing but show respect for the Muslim culture.


Dude, I didnt mention you or target you with my comment. After all how could I have, if you didnt make a single post on this thread prior to this one? 

All I am saying is that people move to Dubai because of the money, or did you leave the US because of the great "freedom of speech" that is blessed upon UAE residents? Or was it the weather? No wait, it was the great history of this country, right? 

So if we dont like something here, we can always move back to where things are better and our (us expats that is) opinion counts. But we dont, which goes to show that money can buy almost everything.


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## hipflask (May 2, 2009)

I've been respectful of it and it's been no problem at all, but they have closed the pool where i am for the entire month! Now that has been annoying.


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## DesertStranded (Oct 9, 2008)

I'm confuzzled. Who exactly is being intolerant here? But more importantly, when is the witch burning? I'll bring the marshmallows! Oh, wait... We'll have to do it after dark then.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

DesertStranded said:


> I'm confuzzled. Who exactly is being intolerant here? But more importantly, when is the witch burning? I'll bring the marshmallows! Oh, wait... We'll have to do it after dark then.


Before this thread gets closed for squabbling, why do people move to Dubai?? I'm genuinly interested???


Jo xxx


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## DesertStranded (Oct 9, 2008)

Most British people seem to like the lack of rain. I guess a lot of schmucks think they'll get rich quick or somehow save money because it is 'taxfree' in Dubai.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

DesertStranded said:


> I'm confuzzled. Who exactly is being intolerant here? But more importantly, when is the witch burning? I'll bring the marshmallows! Oh, wait... We'll have to do it after dark then.



Before this thread gets closed for squabbling, why do people move to Dubai?? I'm genuinly interested???

Jo xx


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## mrbig (Sep 10, 2009)

bdb said:


> Dude, I didnt mention you or target you with my comment. After all how could I have, if you didnt make a single post on this thread prior to this one?
> 
> All I am saying is that people move to Dubai because of the money, or did you leave the US because of the great "freedom of speech" that is blessed upon UAE residents? Or was it the weather? No wait, it was the great history of this country, right?
> 
> So if we dont like something here, we can always move back to where things are better and our (us expats that is) opinion counts. But we dont, which goes to show that money can buy almost everything.


Once you said American you targeted everyone who was born there. 
Sounds like you dont like living here. Since you dont respect the goverments wishes to censor speech, or mother natures ability to make it hot here, or do I sense you dont think the culture here has a great past?
So since you dont like it here, and you obviously havent left, you must just be here for the money.... Dont put us all in the same boat you are in.
I love it here. I dont ever want to leave. So if you need to generalize, leave me out of it from now on. 
Thanks
mrbig


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## Andy Capp (Oct 5, 2008)

jojo said:


> Before this thread gets closed for squabbling, why do people move to Dubai?? I'm genuinly interested???
> 
> Jo xx


For different reasons, some are attracted to the Party Town atmosphere - which it does have, I initially came here cos i applied for a job. There is also a sense of can do attitude, and if you have been here long enough, and have the right connections, then you can still make money even in a downturn.

I like the weather (most of the time), i don't mind the traffic (most of the time) but i do gat a bit peeved at paying AED35 for a beer, that's around £6.50!

Then there's the fact it's "Tas free" which isn't strictly speaking true, as there's loads of indirect taxes, people usually are her for 2-5 years then move on, although i know plenty who've been here for 25+ years.

I love the place - as you may have worked out.

You should visit Jojo, I'm sure there's a few sights that would surprise you!


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Andy Capp said:


> For different reasons, some are attracted to the Party Town atmosphere - which it does have, I initially came here cos i applied for a job. There is also a sense of can do attitude, and if you have been here long enough, and have the right connections, then you can still make money even in a downturn.
> 
> I like the weather (most of the time), i don't mind the traffic (most of the time) but i do gat a bit peeved at paying AED35 for a beer, that's around £6.50!
> 
> ...



It is somewhere thats often fascinated me. . We have toyed with the idea of possibly relocating there, but its so far from family in the UK??? it is very hot and it is a different culture and religion which scares me a bit??? Hense my question Maybe we should at least take a look........ If we ever get time !!!

Jo xx


Jo xxx


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## Andy Capp (Oct 5, 2008)

jojo said:


> It is somewhere thats often fascinated me. . We have toyed with the idea of possibly relocating there, but its so far from family in the UK??? it is very hot and it is a different culture and religion which scares me a bit??? Hense my question Maybe we should at least take a look........ If we ever get time !!!
> 
> Jo xx
> 
> ...


It's hot, well yes but rather pleasant for 9 or 10 months of the year, yes it has a different religion, but that doesn't reall affect any non-muslims, there is a different culture here, but again once you get used to it it's just fine.

As for the distance, yes it's 7 hours from uk, but also 6 hours to Thailand/far east. 

There's a big mix of cultures here and it is a bit of a melting pot, and now i have mates from all different cultures/nationalities - not just Brits, my son (aged 8) can speak fluent Arabic (although what good that will be outside of Arabia is beyond me).

It's different, has loads os detractors (as I'm sure you've noticed) but I like the place.


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## bdb (Apr 24, 2009)

mrbig said:


> Once you said American you targeted everyone who was born there.
> Sounds like you dont like living here. Since you dont respect the goverments wishes to censor speech, or mother natures ability to make it hot here, or do I sense you dont think the culture here has a great past?
> So since you dont like it here, and you obviously havent left, you must just be here for the money.... Dont put us all in the same boat you are in.
> I love it here. I dont ever want to leave. So if you need to generalize, leave me out of it from now on.
> ...



So it wasnt the paycheck that made you interested in moving out here huh? I guess its not the money that makes the US govt ignore its ideals when it comes to doing business with the countries in the Persian Gulf huh? 

Yes I did come here for the money, but after living here for almost a year I am glad to say that I am planning to move of here by the end of 2009, if not earlier. Seriously sick of all the racism that goes on here. For instance, a friend of mine who works as a teacher at this local school in Mamzar, told me that they have two South Africans teaching there. One of them is European looking and the other is black, and even though both are equally qualified, the whhite ones paycheck is more than the black ones. WTF??!


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## mrbig (Sep 10, 2009)

bdb said:


> So it wasnt the paycheck that made you interested in moving out here huh? I guess its not the money that makes the US govt ignore its ideals when it comes to doing business with the countries in the Persian Gulf huh?
> 
> Yes I did come here for the money, but after living here for almost a year I am glad to say that I am planning to move of here by the end of 2009, if not earlier. Seriously sick of all the racism that goes on here. For instance, a friend of mine who works as a teacher at this local school in Mamzar, told me that they have two South Africans teaching there. One of them is European looking and the other is black, and even though both are equally qualified, the whhite ones paycheck is more than the black ones. WTF??!


Well I guess you have some animosity towards the USA. Thats cool. America can not make everyone happy. Sorry. 

Yes there is racism here. But you deal with it. If you let it run your life then you wont be happy. My kids are half filippino and my wife is a filippino american. So I know about racism and looking down on a person because of the color of thier skin. ITs eveywhere bro, by running away from Dubai you wont escape it. Just make sure you pay off allyour bills before you leave.

And if you ever want to talk about america with me feel free to pm me and we can meet for coffee/diet coke. I can try to smooth your interpritation of americans out for you. We all arent bad.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

mrbig said:


> Well I guess you have some animosity towards the USA. Thats cool. America can not make everyone happy. Sorry.
> 
> Yes there is racism here. But you deal with it. If you let it run your life then you wont be happy. My kids are half filippino and my wife is a filippino american. So I know about racism and looking down on a person because of the color of thier skin. ITs eveywhere bro, by running away from Dubai you wont escape it. Just make sure you pay off allyour bills before you leave.
> 
> And if you ever want to talk about america with me feel free to pm me and we can meet for coffee/diet coke. I can try to smooth your interpritation of americans out for you. We all arent bad.



Humans are tribal and as such, in general will always look down on another tribe! As inividuals, we are all different, good and bad etc...! So Altho people state they may not like a nation/culture, its no different to stating they dont like a particular football team IMO. We've all got to ignore and see past the generalisations and look at the individual!

Jo xxx


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## mrbig (Sep 10, 2009)

jojo said:


> Humans are tribal and as such, in general will always look down on another tribe! As inividuals, we are all different, good and bad etc...! So Altho people state they may not like a nation/culture, its no different to stating they dont like a particular football team IMO. We've all got to ignore and see past the generalisations and look at the individual!
> 
> Jo xxx


amen sister


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## marc (Mar 10, 2008)

dbd its Arabian gulf by the way not Persian Gulf


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## Andy Capp (Oct 5, 2008)

marc said:


> dbd its Arabian gulf by the way not Persian Gulf


Actually marc, historically it's the Persian Gulf, the Arabian name is a fairly recent invention.....


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## DLNW (Jun 17, 2009)

Andy Capp said:


> Now this is my 5th (I think) Ramadan here, and yes I don't take the pee by drinking etc. in public.
> 
> BUT.
> 
> ...


I come from a country were there is a definite division between chruch and state so perhaps I dont understand the concept of religion being legislated. Certainly in SA our muslim people would never judge or hinder other religions practising a daily routine (especialy during ramadan). At home muslim people fast from 05h00 to aprox 22h00 as the sun goes down realy late and they dont get things like shortened workdays etc The rest of us are really resectful of this holy time as we know it is dificult for anyone to fast whilst trying to remain pure and godly.

I agree with Andy - surely muslim people should be reflective at this time and not be woried about atheists having tea???

One chap asked a friend of mine not to wear purfume during ramadan as it "causes temptation" for heavans sake..............


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## Seven Seas (May 11, 2009)

mcd1203 said:


> But its not hard to avoid the temptation when its not readily available or seen around you.


Not eating/drinking in public isn't about pretending to be fastign, nor is it about helping muslims by not tempting them. It is about respecting the fact that you are in a country that has these traditions. 

From a different perspective- "there are more of them than there are of us, and they act just like they do at home, and things have changed a lot in ways that are very important to us." . That's something to be taken seriously.

As for the temptation stuff- I tried to tell my wife that I go to strip clubs to show my resistance to temptation. It didn't convince her.


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## DesertStranded (Oct 9, 2008)

Seven Seas said:


> Not eating/drinking in public isn't about pretending to be fastign, nor is it about helping muslims by not tempting them. It is about respecting the fact that you are in a country that has these traditions.


I don't buy that. Using that reasoning, one could argue that muslims in the west should try to respect the locals and their customs by dressing in western clothing, *treating their women equally* and not snubbing their nose at pork.

Luckily, I'm in Turkey where you barely notice it is Ramazan. The restaurants, bars and erotic shops are open for business as usual and no one bothers you if you stop to eat an ice cream cone in broad daylight.


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## DesertStranded (Oct 9, 2008)

Andy Capp said:


> Actually marc, historically it's the Persian Gulf, the Arabian name is a fairly recent invention.....


I think Marc was just yanking bdb's chain since he's Persian. I was tempted to do it myself.


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## bdb (Apr 24, 2009)

DesertStranded said:


> I think Marc was just yanking bdb's chain since he's Persian. I was tempted to do it myself.



I figured thats what he was doing. Its only the Arabs, esp the ones whose countries are situated in the Persian Gulf that think its called the Arabian Gulf. But then again they also think that by opening up the "worlds longest driverless metro system" actually makes their city "graduate to a metropolis". 

Btw, Mr. Big, I have nothing against Americans. Having graduated from an American high school and lived in LA for years, I can honestly say that Americans are very warm hearted. I was just saying that just like us ordinary people, even the worlds most righteous empire, the US, does in fact put aside its morals in order to do business. Thats why we are in the UAE, which was my point from the beginning on that money can in fact by almost everything


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## Seven Seas (May 11, 2009)

DesertStranded said:


> I don't buy that. Using that reasoning, one could argue that muslims in the west should try to respect the locals and their customs by dressing in western clothing, *treating their women equally* and not snubbing their nose at pork.


I like the suggestions, there are some good ideas, but the analogy is misleading.
If there was pressure on expats here to dress, treat women, and eat the same way that muslims do, then your analogy would be accurate.

Clearly, the conditions I described are absent. 

Ramadan is a major part of islamic culture here. Observing Ramadan- in public and in private- is a huge part of the religion. Eating pork is not a major part of any culture. Nobody has ever disagreed with another person because they chose to not eat pork. OK, except for rebellious farmers' kids who turn vegetarian.

Other differences: people who want to settle permanently in a country, retaining their own culture, vs. people who are moving for a few years and have no intention to remain permanently.

People whose culture is _perceived_ to be under threat while they are a minority vs when they are a majority of the population.


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## Andy Capp (Oct 5, 2008)

Seven Seas said:


> I like the suggestions, there are some good ideas, but the analogy is misleading.
> If there was pressure on expats here to dress, treat women, and eat the same way that muslims do, then your analogy would be accurate.
> 
> Clearly, the conditions I described are absent.
> ...


I respect your comments seven seas, seriously i do.

Ramadan IS part of islamic culture here, yep, no problem, however, other islamic states do not "push it so heavily" ? Maybe not the right words but the sentiment is right.

EG, Syria and Libya - both Islamic states, do not have the restrictions there that are here. OK, now I'm not saying they are UAE are correct, just that the impression is different , in the aforementioned places it's more "live and let live" here, it seems it is more "you must do as we do cos this is our country, our laws, our religion" 

I know, paraphrased etc. but just trying to get my point across - English is not my first language!


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## Seven Seas (May 11, 2009)

Andy Capp said:


> I respect your comments seven seas, seriously i do.
> 
> EG, Syria and Libya - both Islamic states, do not have the restrictions there that are here. OK, now I'm not saying they are UAE are correct, just that the impression is different , in the aforementioned places it's more "live and let live" here, it seems it is more "you must do as we do cos this is our country, our laws, our religion"


Absolutely right. But still, we cannot discount the fact that UAE identity is perceived to be under threat.

And the 'minority in our own country' factor.

People do things differently everywhere.

Ireland is one place where you cannot even get legal abortions ( I think that's still the case) whereas in Catholic Brazil, there are lots of options.

Sometimes, we can only try to understand how people do things differently, but the reasons will never be really known....

Your English is absolutely fine so far.


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## DesertStranded (Oct 9, 2008)

Sevenseas, I don't buy your arguments at all. Do you think muslims in the west should be forced to celebrate Christmas against their will? It would be the same thing. 

I don't see why Arabs want to force others to celebrate their holidays when Turks don't. I'm just all around fed up with religious fanatics (Christians, Jews and muslims alike) trying to force their religion on others. To me religion should be something practiced in private, not shown off in public. And that is all cramming your religion down others throats amounts to, showing it off rather than practicing it; which only serves to make it meaningless.


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## D-Xpat (Aug 29, 2009)

Andy Capp said:


> Ramadan IS part of islamic culture here, yep, no problem, however, other islamic states do not "push it so heavily" ?


If you disapprove of the Islamic customs and traditions in the UAE and the law of the land, you can always leave. But if you choose to stay respect them.


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## Elphaba (Jan 24, 2008)

D-Xpat said:


> If you disapprove of the Islamic customs and traditions in the UAE and the law of the land, you can always leave. But if you choose to stay respect them.


A typically unhelpful response. 

-


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## Vmoses (Sep 14, 2009)

The gulf has traditionally been more conservative or intolerant (take your pick) part of the Muslim world. You just have to take the good with the bad.

Incidently, who drinks tea outside in 40 degree weather?


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## Ahmad Bin Rashid AlOtaibi (Sep 18, 2009)

why so much intolerance to the laws of the land by visitors and expats?


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Ahmad Bin Rashid AlOtaibi said:


> why so much intolerance to the laws of the land by visitors and expats?



Why do think there is?? Thats not what is being said!

Jo xxx


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## Ahmad Bin Rashid AlOtaibi (Sep 18, 2009)

the government requst all people to respect the fast and not eat n drink in public. People not following that will be arrested. It is a law enforced by the government. UAE however is more liberal and you may get away with a slap on the wrist. But u must understand that UAE is a nation governed by Islamic law. Being an expat and a guest in this country and flouting this rule as well as being proud of breaking the law is criminal. Consider that a guest visits your home or you hire a laborer to work for you, and you discover that this guest, despite the fact that u told him not to, is using your phone to make long distance calls and encouraging your other staff to also do the same, would you keep quiet? no you will kick them out, isn't that right? Then why(in the 1st post) laugh about how that 1 person felt offended by this expat who was drinking coffee in public view during fasting hours? The law of the land is very clear on this. I don't know why people dont understand that they are not in thier home countries where this behavior may be acceptable. Today these expats dont have any respect for the fasting laws, tomorrow they wont have respect for other laws... there will only be chaos then. My request is that, please respect the laws of the land. They are made laws by a decree from our great and dynamic Ruler. As an expat, you should at least respect the fact that UAE is very liberal as compared to some other Islamic Nations. The way this topic is being discussed is like saying that UAE Rules are wrong. It is very sad.


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## mrbig (Sep 10, 2009)

Well said Ahmad


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

sorted then!!!!!

Jo xx


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## Vmoses (Sep 14, 2009)

It is not that about whether expats should respect the rules and customs of the land. I doubt whether there is any debate about that. It is whether the fasting month of Ramadan requires that public eating and drinking, even of the most innocuous kind, deserves censure and/or fines or jail. As pointed out by others - this is the not the case in many other Muslim countries.

I don't think there is anything wrong with questioning the wisdom of a particular law. And it shouldn't lead to protestations and bellyaching about expats not respecting the UAE etc.


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## Andy Capp (Oct 5, 2008)

Ahmad Bin Rashid AlOtaibi said:


> the government requst all people to respect the fast and not eat n drink in public. People not following that will be arrested. It is a law enforced by the government. UAE however is more liberal and you may get away with a slap on the wrist. But u must understand that UAE is a nation governed by Islamic law. Being an expat and a guest in this country and flouting this rule as well as being proud of breaking the law is criminal. Consider that a guest visits your home or you hire a laborer to work for you, and you discover that this guest, despite the fact that u told him not to, is using your phone to make long distance calls and encouraging your other staff to also do the same, would you keep quiet? no you will kick them out, isn't that right? Then why(in the 1st post) laugh about how that 1 person felt offended by this expat who was drinking coffee in public view during fasting hours? The law of the land is very clear on this. I don't know why people dont understand that they are not in thier home countries where this behavior may be acceptable. Today these expats dont have any respect for the fasting laws, tomorrow they wont have respect for other laws... there will only be chaos then. My request is that, please respect the laws of the land. They are made laws by a decree from our great and dynamic Ruler. As an expat, you should at least respect the fact that UAE is very liberal as compared to some other Islamic Nations. The way this topic is being discussed is like saying that UAE Rules are wrong. It is very sad.


That is such a pathetic argument.

Guest of this country - you're having a laugh - if it wasn't for the British you wouldn't even HAVE a country! 

When did the government request that all people respect the fast???? Go on tell me, cos I can't find it! And to be honest why should we? And where is it that the government tells me I, as an atheist, should not eat?

It doesn't happen, it's never happened!

And the Hotel was given a licence BY YOUR GOVERNMENT to serve food/coffee..... So you're saying YOUR GOVERNMENT is wrong are you? 

The west built your country, if it wasn't for the west the Emiratis would still be pirates and smugglers (this was called the pirate coast not that long ago), you'd have to rely on third world labour and your skyscrapers would basically collapse.

Credit where credit's due, this is a mutual arrangement, we help you, you tolerate us.... It happens all over the world. You may not like us - which you (as an individual) clearly don't - but you NEED us!

OK consider this.

Would the UAE exist WITHOUT westerners? No. Who designs/ supervises and builds this country? Who project managed YOUR metro? Your (EK) airline? It aint the Emiratis....That is why the UAE is "Tolerant" you have to be.

How about this one then, Emirates Airline is basically run by Brits. Yes you have a figurehead in Sheikh Ahmed (top guy by the way, I've met him) BUT it's run by Brits - No, NOT Emiratis, BRITS.

You can't have it both ways, you want our experience, well, you gotta pay for it.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Andy Capp said:


> That is such a pathetic argument.
> 
> Guest of this country - you're having a laugh - if it wasn't for the British you wouldn't even HAVE a country!
> 
> ...



Now you could have said all that in less that half the ammount of words like this:

"UAE needed the western "know how" and the West needed the UAE oil. So therefore everyone had to make sacrifices and allowances" 


Jo xxxxx


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## Andy Capp (Oct 5, 2008)

jojo said:


> Now you could have said all that in less that half the ammount of words like this:
> 
> "UAE needed the western "know how" and the West needed the UAE oil. So therefore everyone had to make sacrifices and allowances"
> 
> ...


The West needs the saudi oil, UAe oil is not used so much there, most goes to the east....

yes I could, however, I like be specific - oh and I know i'm gonna be hammered for that post....

Pity D-Xpat is banned - he'll be back.....


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## Vmoses (Sep 14, 2009)

Just let it go folks. Move on.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Andy Capp said:


> yes I could, however, I like be specific - oh and I know i'm gonna be hammered for that post....
> 
> Pity D-Xpat is banned - he'll be back.....


... in disguise, under a different name!? I know you like to get "involved" and say what you think but sometimes the message gets lost and you only convey the tone which then gives antagonists the opportunity to start a fight. That may get you adrenalin going, but it doesnt help anyone! 

Dont worry, I'll shut up now and go to bed now!! 


Night night 

Jo xxxx


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## Andy Capp (Oct 5, 2008)

Vmoses said:


> Just let it go folks. Move on.


Why?

Surely this is a conversation, it's a different view that people have, and only be discussing one's differences can we actually understand the other party!

If all you do is not talk about a contentious issue it will never go away, and that, my friend, is how real wars start - well, that and religion!


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## Andy Capp (Oct 5, 2008)

jojo said:


> Night night
> 
> Jo xxxx


XXX!
Oh and cos the message is too short - XXX!


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Andy Capp said:


> XXX!
> Oh and cos the message is too short - XXX!


...... maybe you should also be disgussing your profile picture, now thats an ugly SOB!! and you're not bad looking in real life 

zzzzzzzz zzzzzzzz zzzzzzzz


Jo xxxx


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## Andy Capp (Oct 5, 2008)

jojo said:


> ...... maybe you should also be disgussing your profile picture, now thats an ugly SOB!! and you're not bad looking in real life
> 
> zzzzzzzz zzzzzzzz zzzzzzzz
> 
> ...


NOT BAD BLOODY LOOKING!

I'll tell you I'm an Adonis.....

Just ask Elph.... XXX!


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## M123 (Aug 14, 2009)

Andy Capp said:


> That is such a pathetic argument.
> 
> Guest of this country - you're having a laugh - if it wasn't for the British you wouldn't even HAVE a country!
> 
> ...


You are not being forced to fast, you are simply asked to respect those fasting by not eating in their view for 29/30 days per year. It's not too bad.

Your argument sounds like the Americans who claim that the UK owe them for saving them in WW2, or Israelis who use WW2 as an excuse to go have a carte blanche for anything.

The Emirati's tend to like the Brits, more so than any other Western country (although recent politics has reduced this due to UK being politically prostituted for other country's agendas).

Your post is quite aggressive and implies that you are owed something purely on the basis of being British. Do you honestly feel that way, or is it a case of going on the defensive because the truth of a better lifestyle and good money is one that people are seldom likely to admit.

It reminds me of the doctors who claim that their ambition was to save lives, when 90% of the time it's about status and money. If you mention the 'real reason', they go on the attack with some moral highground.

I'm not used to fasting being this easy, having been born and raised in the UK, but much the same way I don't expect anyone to make allowances for me in the UK (despite my having every right as a Brit and a taxpayer), I would expect people from the UK to make allowances for those here.

fair is fair after all.

Also I cannot think of any wars that have started because of religion this century. It's always due to strategic political gain regardless of the guise it appears to fall under (or what the tabloids say).


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## Andy Capp (Oct 5, 2008)

M123 said:


> You are not being forced to fast, you are simply asked to respect those fasting by not eating in their view for 29/30 days per year. It's not too bad.
> Who said i was?????
> Your argument sounds like the Americans who claim that the UK owe them for saving them in WW2, or Israelis who use WW2 as an excuse to go have a carte blanche for anything.
> The americans actually saved the Uk in ww2, but if it hadn't been for pearl harbour they wouldn't have got involved
> ...


However, i appreciate your views.


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## M123 (Aug 14, 2009)

Andy Capp said:


> However, i appreciate your views.



For some reason I think I'm still living in the 20th century, but that's what I meant. It reminds me of that South Park episode where everyone was an atheist, but they were still all preparing for the big war, and we find out at the end of the episode that the war was because they couldn't decide what to call themselves (as atheists). 

I find your posts interesting, but you do seem pretty trigger-happy and shooting down the place. I do not know much about your reasons for living here, but your previous post did seem a bit on the arrogant side, expecting special treatment to eat during a period where it is clearly a bit of a taboo.

"I'm gonna eat whether you like it or not, and we British gave birth to you, so stuff what you think"

That's the impression I got from what you wrote, so perhaps I'm lacking in my perceptiveness, but I can only judge what I read.


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## mrbig (Sep 10, 2009)

Andy you are one of a kind mate.
Yes I do have a backbone, but I also have respect for other cultures and thier laws. If they say I can not eat or drink in public, then I wont. Simple as that. Respect.


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## Ahmad Bin Rashid AlOtaibi (Sep 18, 2009)

Andy, you pathetic little Brit, it is people like you who spoil the harmony we have in this country and this forum. 

You should have been born in the 1930's in Germany, coz Hitler could have really used a Nazi like you!

So I'm guessing that you believe even economies like China, Germany, India, Singapore need to bow down and adore the Brits!... I feel sorry for you Mr. Capp! Seriously! You need to get yourself a shrink. 

And if the Brits were backing the Emiratis so much with their superior intelect and crazy skills, how come our economy nosedived during the recession...... surely Brits like you would have forseen this and helped us out! 

Get off your high horse Mr. Andy Capp. You are here only and only because you could not be successful in your home country and no matter how you try to convince us otherwise, it just wont work! Maybe this is the reason why you are so rude and arrogant and biased against us and other races.

Seriously I request you to stop posting these disharmonious and disgusting comments online on this forum and I do hope you do the same in real life too.


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## mrbig (Sep 10, 2009)

Ahmad, dont worry about AndyCapp. He puts all races and nationalities down. I think he does it to get a rise out of us. But dont stoop to his level by calling him names as it will put you at the same level. Just let it roll off your back, as he speaks for one person not all the expats here in Dubai.


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## Ahmad Bin Rashid AlOtaibi (Sep 18, 2009)

Yes I agree with you Mr. Big. I did not come here to get into these fights with people that are bigoted against races and nationalities. And yes I agree that it is these select few that are the real problem.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Ahmad Bin Rashid AlOtaibi said:


> Andy, you pathetic little Brit, it is people like you who spoil the harmony we have in this country and this forum.
> 
> You should have been born in the 1930's in Germany, coz Hitler could have really used a Nazi like you!
> 
> ...


A pointless and uninformative post!

Jo


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Ahmad Bin Rashid AlOtaibi said:


> Yes I agree with you Mr. Big. I did not come here to get into these fights with people that are bigoted against races and nationalities. And yes I agree that it is these select few that are the real problem.



If you come onto the forum to help, chat and advise and wish to avoid posts like these, then its better not to even enter into conversation dont you think???

Jo xxx


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## Ahmad Bin Rashid AlOtaibi (Sep 18, 2009)

honest question to u ms. jojo

Are you biased towards protecting Andy Capp and his rude racist remarks????

because if that is true I think like someone suggested earlier we should ignore these type of trouble makers and their cronies


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Ahmad Bin Rashid AlOtaibi said:


> honest question to u ms. jojo
> 
> Are you biased towards protecting Andy Capp and his rude racist remarks????
> 
> because if that is true I think like someone suggested earlier we should ignore these type of trouble makers and their cronies


I suggested earlier that you ignore "trouble makers"! I am not biased one way or the other towards any one individual, however, I am biased towards the forum being a nice place and it isnt going to be if everyone keeps fighting, especially over issues that are totally unresolvable and uninteresting. (In fact thats the trouble with the whole damn world dont you think???) Put it this way, do you really think that you, by disagreeing, arguing and name calling on here will change minds and opinions??? NO, so its pointless! 

Thats what I'm saying



Jo xx


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## expatforum - rules (Apr 6, 2007)

I have closed this thread for the time being as it is veering off topic into a childish squabble. 

May I remind members that discussing any moderating decisions in public is against the rules - so don't do it as any such posts are deleted.

Thanks
Bob


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