# Can I still move to Spain during transition period?



## WorkSlave (Jul 6, 2020)

Hi All.

First post here so please be gentle, and I apologise if many of these questions have already been asked before, I am scanning the forums to try and find any info I can about moving.

I live and work in the UK, and for years have wanted to move to Spain but as always work has got in the way and I fear I may have left it to late to now move to Spain!!! Now 54 and want to get out of the UK before Boris grinds us in to the earth!

I am firstly trying to find out if during the Transition period I can still move to Spain? I have had conflicting answers on this?

If I do move and I can stay and apply for residency card how mush time can I spend in the UK as I will still need to be in the UK for work while I start winding things down a bit? I'm thinking that I will have to do two to three weeks in the UK and a week plus in Spain each month for a year or so, my plan is then to start reducing the time spent in the UK and spend more time in the sun in Spain. Once I have the residency card does that entitle me to be able to stay in Spain permanently? 

I was thinking of renting in the first place while looking for a home in Spain to buy and using the rented address as my address for when I fill in the residency paperwork, if this is OK? (anyone have an apartment available to rent for 18 months plus for one man and his dog?)

Any advice and help would be hugely appreciated. I am hoping to whizz over to Spain towards the end of the month.

Thanks

Steve


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

WorkSlave said:


> Hi All.
> 
> First post here so please be gentle, and I apologise if many of these questions have already been asked before, I am scanning the forums to try and find any info I can about moving.
> 
> ...


Welcome

AFAIK you have to have applied for residency before the end of this year IE be living here full time. As for work. You will be subject to taxes etc also healthcare you will need healthcare etc 

Others may well have a different take on what you have said but I’m not sure your plan will work or you may have to adjust some aspects. Welcome to brexit world!


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

WorkSlave said:


> Hi All.
> 
> First post here so please be gentle, and I apologise if many of these questions have already been asked before, I am scanning the forums to try and find any info I can about moving.


Fire off!



> I live and work in the UK, and for years have wanted to move to Spain but as always work has got in the way and I fear I may have left it to late to now move to Spain!!! Now 54 and want to get out of the UK before Boris grinds us in to the earth!
> 
> I am firstly trying to find out if during the Transition period I can still move to Spain? I have had conflicting answers on this?


Yes you can. While the withdrawal agreement stipulates up to 30th June 2021 to register your residence, Spain has said nothing about this so I suggest you try to get the submission done by the year's end.



> If I do move and I can stay and apply for residency card how mush time can I spend in the UK as I will still need to be in the UK for work while I start winding things down a bit? I'm thinking that I will have to do two to three weeks in the UK and a week plus in Spain each month for a year or so, my plan is then to start reducing the time spent in the UK and spend more time in the sun in Spain. Once I have the residency card does that entitle me to be able to stay in Spain permanently?


Once you get your residency, you are allowed to be away up to 6 months in a year to stay a resident. While in the past Spain hasn't paid much attention to it, with the probability of passport being stamped on entry/exit and greater scrutiny of documents from 2021, you need to be careful not accidently losing your residence. After 5 years in Spain, you become a permanent resident.



> I was thinking of renting in the first place while looking for a home in Spain to buy and using the rented address as my address for when I fill in the residency paperwork, if this is OK? (anyone have an apartment available to rent for 18 months plus for one man and his dog?)


Renting first is an excellent idea. It shouldn't be too difficult to find a long-term rental (though with a pet, many landlords will be reluctant to let to you). 



> Any advice and help would be hugely appreciated. I am hoping to whizz over to Spain towards the end of the month.


It will be a scramble to register your residence in under 6 months, as the rules and procedure are being changed from today (no full information released yet), so I suggest you find and keep in touch with a local gestor who will help and guide you.


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## MataMata (Nov 30, 2008)

"Yes you can. While the withdrawal agreement stipulates up to 30th June 2021 to register your residence, Spain has said nothing about this so I suggest you try to get the submission done by the year's end"

That's misleading, you MUST be living in Spain by Dec 31st. and have at least kicked off the process of becoming resident, applied for an appointment basically. Only then do you have until June 2021 to get that fully in place.


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

I understand your thinking but in reality you are trying to have your cake and eat it. It seems like you want to secure residency in spain now although you dont really intend to make it your primary place of economic interest until later. Many Brits have the same idea but TBH I think you are sailing a bit to close to the wind. Either way if you want to try you need to get your skates on and at least have got an address and other things pending before end of December. Given that many of the offices in the south dont have appointments until September clock is ticking


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

Here is all the information you need:

https://www.boe.es/diario_boe/txt.p...N3_mCw0h_Z5jgDpPsg-w75eFLruP41baV0ds8wtaxvcIc


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

kaipa said:


> I understand your thinking but in reality you are trying to have your cake and eat it. It seems like you want to secure residency in spain now although you dont really intend to make it your primary place of economic interest until later. Many Brits have the same idea but TBH I think you are sailing a bit to close to the wind. Either way if you want to try you need to get your skates on and at least have got an address and other things pending before end of December. Given that many of the offices in the south don't have appointments until September clock is ticking


We had a similar discussion in the past and I went through the immigration laws to find out what the "real" situation was and TBH I never found anything to suggest that it was illegal to register residence as an EU citizen in Spain then immediately leave for the maximum time permitted.

So, in theory, given that the OP is registering under the WA as an EU citizen in Spain, there is nothing to stop them from doing this. 
The new BOE doesn't make it any "harder" to stop this, with a new resident having to prove that he/she is living in Spain since before the end of the transition period. I think it will be difficult for the police to refuse a person who applies for the resident's card using a rental agreement and for example with utility bills in their name or empadronamiento docs, which the OP would probably have.


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

Never said it was illegal - just that its sailing close to the wind.


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## WorkSlave (Jul 6, 2020)

I have Global private medical cover, and I would rather pay Spanish tax in return for sunshine!


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## WorkSlave (Jul 6, 2020)

Joppa said:


> Fire off!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Cheers for the info, very helpful. Can I get the ball rolling with any of this before I make my trip to Spain?


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## WorkSlave (Jul 6, 2020)

kaipa said:


> I understand your thinking but in reality you are trying to have your cake and eat it. It seems like you want to secure residency in spain now although you dont really intend to make it your primary place of economic interest until later. Many Brits have the same idea but TBH I think you are sailing a bit to close to the wind. Either way if you want to try you need to get your skates on and at least have got an address and other things pending before end of December. Given that many of the offices in the south dont have appointments until September clock is ticking


Unfortunately, this isn't a case of enjoying cake! Running a number of businesses in the UK Covid has hit us quite hard in several places including having to lay a number people off! I had planned to move to Spain and only go back to the UK for 2 weeks in 10 just to oversee things etc. With Covid everything has changed, business is struggling on pretty much all fronts and I now I would need to spend more time in the UK managing than before Covid hit! I;m now trying to get to Spain to find rental property etc to get the ball rolling.


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## WorkSlave (Jul 6, 2020)

kaipa said:


> Here is all the information you need:
> 
> (wont let me repost the link)
> 
> ...


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

Not much you can do it you are still in uk. As many people will mention estate agents wont bother with people phoning from abroad about rentals as they tend to like to do business immediately ( same day or next). Pretty much everything in Spain requires to be done in person. You wont get residency done if you are in uk you need to be here. Dont think you can get a cita previa booked either if you have no NIE and no address. You will have to come over get a good gestor to sort things out for you and see when you can get an appointment. Might be a good idea to start learning Spanish though!


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## fortrose52 (Nov 29, 2018)

You need your NIE to do anything. You might be able to get one from the Embassy. But as previously said you may need an address. Perhaps a friend in Spain would help with that. But I agree, get a good Gestor


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## WorkSlave (Jul 6, 2020)

*Yay! I have a spanish address!*

So I have just rented a ground floor studio flat for an initial 6 months with a 6 month renew option. In one of those absolute freaky things that happen in life, the studio flat owner lives less than 3 miles away from me in Plymouth - UK. Studio is a separate annex from his villa. This will give me time to find a place i want to buy - hopefully!

This morning I have opened an account with N26 bank, its non resident but it can be changed over to resident easily!

My plan is to whizz over to Spain and apply for my NIE in the next few weeks.

So still have a few other questions if anyone can help?

Assuming all goes OK and I get to Spain and claim residency etc, how much time can I then spend back in the UK? Would like to try and do two week Spain, two week UK for the next year while trying to sort out some of the business stuff I need to deal with in the UK, Covid has hit us pretty hard - we had to shut down one business altogether and have also had to make people redundant in some of the other businesses. As I get things sorted I would like to move to three weeks Spain and one week UK before going for eight weeks Spain and two weeks UK, all of this to be over a period of around two years but with Covid that could all change.

Is there a restriction on the amount of booze one can bring to Spain? While I dont drink very much I do collect (and drink) whiskey, I have around 375 bottles, most of it is fifty, to two hundred quid a bottle stuff but around thirty of the bottles combined are worth over £50K.

If i get to Spain how long would it be before i need to re-register my car? I have a ford ranger pickup which I would quite like to keep, to be honest i don't really see myself doing a huge amount of driving in Spain.

Anyone have any tips or advide about moving to Spain, or how to make moving more painless id love to hear your thoughts and ideas?

Thanks.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

WorkSlave said:


> Assuming all goes OK and I get to Spain and claim residency etc, how much time can I then spend back in the UK? Would like to try and do two week Spain, two week UK for the next year while trying to sort out some of the business stuff I need to deal with in the UK, Covid has hit us pretty hard - we had to shut down one business altogether and have also had to make people redundant in some of the other businesses. As I get things sorted I would like to move to three weeks Spain and one week UK before going for eight weeks Spain and two weeks UK, all of this to be over a period of around two years but with Covid that could all change.


Before you attain permanent resident status after 5 years, you can stay away from Spain up to 6 months in total each year.



> Is there a restriction on the amount of booze one can bring to Spain? While I don't drink very much I do collect (and drink) whiskey, I have around 375 bottles, most of it is fifty, to two hundred quid a bottle stuff but around thirty of the bottles combined are worth over £50K.


If you do it before 31st December, there is no tax to pay, provided you can convince the customs officer that it's all for your personal use (not to sell on for a profit). From 2021, it's likely that anything beyond a small allowance (like 1 litre per person) will be charged duty and VAT.



> If i get to Spain how long would it be before i need to re-register my car? I have a ford ranger pickup which I would quite like to keep, to be honest i don't really see myself doing a huge amount of driving in Spain.


As soon as you become a Spanish resident. The law states just 30 days. While you can try doing yourself, there are several companies willing to do it for you for a price.



> Anyone has any tips or advice about moving to Spain, or how to make moving more painless id love to hear your thoughts and ideas?


Plenty of threads about it. Also a good source of official information in Living in Spain on .gov.uk.


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

Although some may challenge me here I think you will need to be making your tax payments in Spain even if you intend to be in uk for 6 months. So that could mean getting a good tax adviser if you are involved in businesses. Of course if you want a definitive answer you should talk with the Spanish authorities but no one ever seems to want to get it from the horses mouth. Anyway keep a watch on how things develop in spain as we are now entering the period of a second wave and you dont want to get caught out if new lockdowns occur in your area


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Don't forget that as a Spanish resident you'll need a Spanish driving licence. 

You can do a straight swap with a UK issued licence before the end of this year - the application at least needs to be in - but if you move after Dec 31 2020 you'll have to take a test in Spanish within 6 months if you wish to continue driving.


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## Roy C (Sep 29, 2012)

I have a question on the licence. If you change it to a Spanish licence (which I will do) what if I decide to go to the UK for a couple of months, will it be legit, will I be able to bring my spanish car over to the UK?


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

You will need to give the spanish authorities your uk licencié and wait for your spanish one which can takes a few weeks to 3 months or so. In return you will recieve , if you ask, a letter saying your licence is being processed. Mind was in spanish and I suppose the idea is you will be living in spain not uk so not sure how it works if you dont intend to be living here


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Roy C said:


> I have a question on the licence. If you change it to a Spanish licence (which I will do) what if I decide to go to the UK for a couple of months, will it be legit, will I be able to bring my Spanish car over to the UK?


Yes, you can drive in UK with your Spanish licence, and you can drive your Spanish-registered car in UK. Should you decide to return permanently to UK, you can get your UK licence back.


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## WorkSlave (Jul 6, 2020)

kaipa said:


> Although some may challenge me here I think you will need to be making your tax payments in Spain even if you intend to be in uk for 6 months. So that could mean getting a good tax adviser if you are involved in businesses. Of course if you want a definitive answer you should talk with the Spanish authorities but no one ever seems to want to get it from the horses mouth. Anyway keep a watch on how things develop in spain as we are now entering the period of a second wave and you dont want to get caught out if new lockdowns occur in your area


If I have too I will jetski to Spain!Have a meeting with Tax Advisor next week just to see whats what and where I will pay tax.

My plan to to greatly reduce the time spent in England over the first couple of years. I hope that by the end of year 4 i will never have to go back to the UK!!! I will be looking to launch another business once im in Spain, i will get bored very quickly without work.


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## WorkSlave (Jul 6, 2020)

Joppa said:


> Yes, you can drive in UK with your Spanish licence, and you can drive your Spanish-registered car in UK. Should you decide to return permanently to UK, you can get your UK licence back.


I have NO intention of returning back to the UK permanently once i have moved.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

WorkSlave said:


> I have NO intention of returning back to the UK permanently once i have moved.


Never say never. Ill-health, bereavement etc can change one's best laid plan.


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

I think your plan not to actual reside permanently in Spain for 4 more years is perhaps not in the spirit of things and I should imagine you might run into various tax problems. Prior to Brexit these things were easy to do but things will be alot tighter once the uk is a third country. For example ,only today the EU has announced that there will be strict documentation checks on all UK arrivals in EU countries. Moving back and forth throughout the year will possibly raise questions. This is what was meant by free movement when we were EU members so it will be checked.


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## Roy C (Sep 29, 2012)

kaipa said:


> I think your plan not to actual reside permanently in Spain for 4 more years is perhaps not in the spirit of things and I should imagine you might run into various tax problems. Prior to Brexit these things were easy to do but things will be alot tighter once the uk is a third country. For example ,only today the EU has announced that there will be strict documentation checks on all UK arrivals in EU countries. Moving back and forth throughout the year will possibly raise questions. This is what was meant by free movement when we were EU members so it will be checked.


I think the spirit of things is, if you spend more than 3 months in Spain you should become resident. Not the spirit of things to me, is living under the radar. I might be travelling back to the UK to help support elderly in laws but even though I could possibly be out of Spain for months, I will certainly be paying my taxes on my occupational pension in Spain. So I'm sure the OP will also be living in the spirit of things.


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

What I mean is if you wish to get your residency before 31st of Dec to take advantage of the existing EU laws then from the moment you apply you should regard spain as your home and your centre of economic interest. However, if you are doing this because in reality you are not really ready to move to spain then I think that is against the spirit of the law. With freedom of movement this was how many people chose to live. Many Brits even popped back to uk for NHS treatment etc. However, that will end 31st and it will not be possible to have one foot in one country and other elsewhere. Anyway as all of us know getting residency is often not as easy as it seems. I was refused the first time as they wouldn't accept my wifes automino as being sufficient. All kinds of strange things happen and I am pretty sure that will continue


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## Williams2 (Sep 15, 2013)

Joppa said:


> Yes, you can drive in UK with your Spanish licence, and you can drive your Spanish-registered car in UK. Should you decide to return permanently to UK, you can get your UK licence back.


I checked the above with DVLC and according to them Spanish driving licenses will
remain legit for people driving in the UK ( even after Brexit ) for a maximum of
3 years ( and no IDP required ) or whatever date your Spanish driving license expires 
or upon reaching your 70 birthday after returning to live in the UK.
Therefore whichever one these events comes first for those Brits who return to live 
in the UK from Spain.

All the hire car companies in the UK also have no problems with Spanish driving
licenses.

Of course it will be a piece of cake exchanging your Spanish driving license for
a British driving license when your legally obliged to do so.
Naturally the driving license validity dates will be shorter for those with HGV and/or
PSV driving licenses.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Joppa said:


> Never say never. Ill-health, bereavement etc can change one's best laid plan.


Indeed. A friend who has lived here for over nine years will leave for the U.K. in September. Her partner who worked offshore in the oil industry was made redundant last week and they simply can't afford to continue the lifestyle they enjoyed here with no breadwinner.

Very sad for their fifteen year old son who was settled into his school, had made many friends, speaks fluent Spanish and who has been accepted as a talented and popular member of a local amateur dramatic group.

My case is different. I can say with certainty that I will never return permanently to the U.K. or even to visit. I'm retired, can support myself here, have many friends and interests in the local community and am expecting my application for Spanish citizenship to be finalised shortly.

If you need to work, the future for many may  now be precarious. Anyone who hasn't regularised their position will find that life 'under the radar' a thing of the past. I have to say I have a certain degree of Schadenfreude about that. Spain is not a British colony to be used as if its laws and regulations were not applicable to British citizens.

Being in longer queues at Spanish airports won't be the only post-Brexit inconvenience.


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

WorkSlave said:


> I have NO intention of returning back to the UK permanently once i have moved.


This was us then:-

Mother died
Dad needed support
Dad had heart attack 
Daughter got married
Other daughter had a child, marriage broke down needed help with childcare 
Mother in law had hip replacement surgery. Needed help

Having no intention is one thing reality due to thousands of reasons is another. The U.K. is littered with folk who moved abroad with no intentions of going back!

I agree with Kaipa, it is very much a dodgy plan with regards to tax, residency etc. 
But each to their own 

Can I also ask, what’s so awful in the U.K. that you cannot wait to leave?


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## MataMata (Nov 30, 2008)

Megsmum said:


> Mother died
> Dad needed support
> Dad had heart attack
> Daughter got married
> ...


Not a criticism of you but that's not atypical of the the sort of list many might compile and does make you wonder just how much thought some do actually put into their decisions to move to Spain - or in fact anywhere outside the UK?

When we left in 2007 we had no surviving antecedents, a son settled in Australia, and a daughter with a very happy and stable marriage so few opportunities for anything to arise demanding an unplanned return, 13 years later if anything there are even fewer.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Joppa said:


> Never say never. Ill-health, bereavement etc can change one's best laid plan.


We have no intentions of returning to anywhere else. The only family I have in UK is one sister and her daughters all of whom are fit enough to come here. SWMBO and her mother have no close relations in the USA or Colombia so no need to go to either of those countries. We made the decision 13 years ago to permanently relocate to Spain and we have found no reasons nor foresee any the change that decision.


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

mrypg9 said:


> Indeed. A friend who has lived here for over nine years will leave for the U.K. in September. Her partner who worked offshore in the oil industry was made redundant last week and they simply can't afford to continue the lifestyle they enjoyed here with no breadwinner.
> 
> Very sad for their fifteen year old son who was settled into his school, had made many friends, speaks fluent Spanish and who has been accepted as a talented and popular member of a local amateur dramatic group.
> 
> ...


I might be reading between the lines here, but this example of a family leaving Spain due to redundancy seems to be quite contradictory.

As someone who is likely to be made redundant in the near future (the company I work for is being absorbed by a larger competitor) I would certainly not look at returning to the UK as a solution. My redundancy money will last me much longer in Spain that it would in the UK and I'm not even sure how he will be able to claim the Spanish unemployment benefit if they return to the UK.

I suspect that this family retained a strong economic interest in the UK and was not making contributions in Spain, which makes this the "easiest" way out.


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

I also wonder what is so bad about UK and so great about Spain. For many in the beginning it's all about the sun but that soon wears off. Once you realise that having skin like a leather football is not exactly healthy or attractive and living for 3 months in temperatures of 30 plus is a kind of penance you soon change your ways. 
Many Brits have very little idea of what is happening in Spain culturally or politically and live in quite closed communities in which everything is simply evaluated by comparison with UK. Alot of people say they feel that the UK is going down the drain and recently remark about Boris etc. And whilst some of us think Sanchez / Inglesisas are trying to implement some good things in Spain it wasn't like this a couple of years ago and it could all quite easily fall apart again pushing us back to the right.
UK gets lots of things right though. If has good labour laws, very lenient tax laws, good universities, creative industries, low corruption, meritocracy and a large number of very influential persons in business and culture. Spain has its heart in the right place but Franco's regime established such deep rooted corruption and favouritism it's hard to erase from the minds of the successful and wealthy. At the moment there are alot more people in Spain who have lived abroad and have brought back more broad- minded attitudes who are keen to change things however the power of religion and patriarchal frameworks unfortunately still keep a foot on the brake.
Finally, I see today that Spain is so deeply in debt now and fighting for considerable financial support that they will have to consider restricting the tax system. Given the paucity of average incomes compared with countries like UK and the huge amounts of wealth hoarded by the wealthy I wouldn't be surprised if they start to look again at wealth and inheritance tax as a way of helping balance the books. Not good for some of us if they start to look at those 720s!!


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Overandout said:


> I might be reading between the lines here, but this example of a family leaving Spain due to redundancy seems to be quite contradictory.
> 
> As someone who is likely to be made redundant in the near future (the company I work for is being absorbed by a larger competitor) I would certainly not look at returning to the UK as a solution. My redundancy money will last me much longer in Spain that it would in the UK and I'm not even sure how he will be able to claim the Spanish unemployment benefit if they return to the UK.
> 
> I suspect that this family retained a strong economic interest in the UK and was not making contributions in Spain, which makes this the "easiest" way out.


 The person mrypg9 was referring to was working "offshore in the oil industry", so probably not paid by a Spanish company and therefore not entitled to Spanish unemployment.
It would seem that your circumstances and this person's are different.
Hope you ride out the possible redundancy ok


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

MataMata said:


> Not a criticism of you but that's not atypical of the the sort of list many might compile and does make you wonder just how much thought some do actually put into their decisions to move to Spain - or in fact anywhere outside the UK?
> 
> When we left in 2007 we had no surviving antecedents, a son settled in Australia, and a daughter with a very happy and stable marriage so few opportunities for anything to arise demanding an unplanned return, 13 years later if anything there are even fewer.


Whilst not a criticism of me I will respond

We put a great deal of thought into leaving which is why we had contingency funds to cover unexpected returns. I’m actually shocked that you don’t think people would list those reasons to return back to the U.K. , unless they have no family left in the U.K. or have no contact with them, many many people leave the U.K. and family behind, death occurs, unless of course you don’t want to return for funerals etc. then that’s a personal decision. On a personal level my daughter was also in a very happy and stable marriage when we left, things change, as did her husband. Leaving the U.K. does not mean leaving responsibility for family being it simply means make sure you have the funding to make the returns when you have to, it’ll be a sad day when I have to say to a family member in need I won’t go back to help you.

How many people return to the U.K. following birth of grandchildren, deaths and breakdowns of marriages here and there, deaths of partners etc etc. There are many for reasons to return. I expect the majority came with no intensions of returning, be it temporarily, like I have had to do, or permanently like I hope I never have to do.

The only people who I think do not think it through are the ones who want to find a job and will do anything, want to run a business and spend more time with the family. There is a vast difference between retiring to Spain, as we did aged 55 and moving a family over to work and set up a business. Most on here can only speak of the retirement side, a few have to work and a few, like myself, chose to work. There is a world of difference between them.


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

Pesky Wesky said:


> The person mrypg9 was referring to was working "offshore in the oil industry", so probably not paid by a Spanish company and therefore not entitled to Spanish unemployment.
> It would seem that your circumstances and this person's are different.
> Hope you ride out the possible redundancy ok


Thanks Pesky!

I have discussed with my family at length and we are prepared to accept a lower income if I have to to stay where we are. And honestly I would go to Asia again before returning to the UK if I really couldn't get anything when the cuts happen (maybe they won't and I'll be lucky anyway...). 
Some people forget that there are other places to consider apart from the UK and Spain!

But your comment on Mry's example is pretty much what I was getting at; i.e. they were possibly not a typical example and maybe had a UK contract of employment which means that the logic of moving back is more direct than it would be for many expats, who would probably be better of staying in comparable circumstances.

For me the family reasons for throwing in the towel are more typical.


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## Roy C (Sep 29, 2012)

We are keeping our flat in the UK as a just in case and useful when over assisting the inlaws. We were going to rent it out to add to the pension but we can do it this way and it's not a big deal. When we were looking to buy our place in Spain 4 years ago, I'd say the majority of ex pats were moving back for various reasons but the main one was health.


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

Overandout said:


> Thanks Pesky!
> 
> 
> For me the family reasons for throwing in the towel are more typical.


Exactly and often unforeseen circumstances. Which is why, never say never!

Good luck, I hope all goes well with Job security


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Megsmum said:


> On a personal level my daughter was also in a very happy and stable marriage when we left, *things change,* as did her husband. *Leaving the U.K. does not mean leaving responsibility for family being it simply means make sure you have the funding to make the returns when you have to*, it’ll be a sad day when I have to say to a family member in need I won’t go back to help you.
> Most on here can only speak of the retirement side, a few have to work and a few, like myself, chose to work. *There is a world of difference between them*.


 Things certainly do change. I came here in my 20's and I'm now in my 50's. It would be peculiar if my circumstances hadn't changed.
I left without a care in the world, without a plan, without provision, because back then you could do that. (Even then I did have a job lined up I hasten to add, but with a 1 yr contract, no long term job in place). Some of that free and easy attitude I'm paying for now ie not having a good pension. I didn't go back to the UK for years, but then I got married, had a daughter... In recent years I've spent months at a time back in the UK for family reasons, after having only spent a few days a year there for many years. It was actually scary going back for such lengthy periods, putting life at my real home in Spain on hold, but it had to be done.
In my opinion contingency plans do have to be considered with your own family/ employment/ health issues in the present and in the future to be kept in mind.


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

Like others, I've had to return to the UK at short notice, and sometimes spend longer periods there than I would have liked, due to family emergencies, since moving here almost 14 years ago. Having contingency funds is absolutely essential to be able to do that.

I've always said that should I outlive my husband, I would not want to return to live in the UK and I still feel that way, but I do recognise that we never really know how we would feel in that situation (or in any other, come to that) until we're actually in it, so never say never.


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

I agree. I think many many expat return for health reasons. Its hard enough I find just going to my doctor and I speak quite good spanish. Would hate to be in a position where it was something serious and I would need 100% understanding. I also think that when you are a newbie you always make grand statements along the lines of 'I will never return" only to find that you change alot as the years go by and it is hard to replace a sense of knowing and familiarity that your country and culture offer you. Oh yeah, and that house you thought you would rent forever but now need to sell but face a huge CGT. Or the inheritance with tax payable on the whole lot!!


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## Isobella (Oct 16, 2014)

Lynn R said:


> Like others, I've had to return to the UK at short notice, and sometimes spend longer periods there than I would have liked, due to family emergencies, since moving here almost 14 years ago. Having contingency funds is absolutely essential to be able to do that.
> 
> I've always said that should I outlive my husband, I would not want to return to live in the UK and I still feel that way, but I do recognise that we never really know how we would feel in that situation (or in any other, come to that) until we're actually in it, so never say never.


Friends of ours owned an apartment block on CDS and rented it out. Wife did not have any involvement nor handle bank accounts etc. She also did not drive. He died suddenly and her 2 Daughters pleaded with her to return to UK. She decided to stay, picked up the business and learnt to drive and passed the Spanish driving test. Still there and 
that was ten years ago. I would have thought she was the one most likely to return so you never know.


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## Isobella (Oct 16, 2014)

kaipa said:


> I agree. I think many many expat return for health reasons. Its hard enough I find just going to my doctor and I speak quite good spanish. Would hate to be in a position where it was something serious and I would need 100% understanding. I also think that when you are a newbie you always make grand statements along the lines of 'I will never return" only to find that you change alot as the years go by and it is hard to replace a sense of knowing and familiarity that your country and culture offer you. Oh yeah, and that house you thought you would rent forever but now need to sell but face a huge CGT. Or the inheritance with tax payable on the whole lot!!


I speak Spanish but would not want to be ill in a system I didn’t understand. Maybe things have changed but the health centre I went to a few times was so disorganised. They would put up a list with names and appointment times but a few ignored it by standing outside the Doctor’s door and push in. Very confusing.


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

I've had way more practice than I ever would have wanted in dealing with illness in Spain over the past few years (mine, not other people's, and serious stuff like heart surgery and cancer). I've coped fine with that so that isn't something that would faze me. Never had a problem re appointments, the few people waiting outside the doctor's door have always asked what time my appointment is for and waved me to go ahead if my time slot is before theirs. At the hospital for outpatient appointments I have to wait for a nurse to come out of the relevant room (which is always printed on the appointment letter) and hand the appointment letter to them, then wait to be called in when it's my turn. Took some getting used to but I know the drill now (only too well).

Have never driven in my life nor have we had a car since moving to Spain, so that wouldn't be a problem either. Nor would dealing with finances/legal/tax stuff because I do that anyway. Financially either one of us would be OK independently if one of us dies. Dealing with the practical stuff like DIY and IT issues would be problematic for me but equally difficult in the UK, I would just have to pay someone to do things. There is a business in my town called Alquiler un Marido (very sexist I know but it always makes me smile) who do all kinds of odd jobs, may come in very handy one day!

I think the living alone and potential isolation would be the hardest thing, but I have very few family members left in the UK now and don't know many people there any more, so I could not see that aspect being any easier there than it would here. But as I said, I do recognise I could feel differently if placed in that situation.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Lynn R said:


> I've had way more practice than I ever would have wanted in dealing with illness in Spain over the past few years (mine, not other people's, and serious stuff like heart surgery and cancer). I've coped fine with that so that isn't something that would faze me. Never had a problem re appointments, the few people waiting outside the doctor's door have always asked what time my appointment is for and waved me to go ahead if my time slot is before theirs. At the hospital for outpatient appointments I have to wait for a nurse to come out of the relevant room (which is always printed on the appointment letter) and hand the appointment letter to them, then wait to be called in when it's my turn. Took some getting used to but I know the drill now (only too well).
> 
> Have never driven in my life nor have we had a car since moving to Spain, so that wouldn't be a problem either. Nor would dealing with finances/legal/tax stuff because I do that anyway. Financially either one of us would be OK independently if one of us dies. Dealing with the practical stuff like DIY and IT issues would be problematic for me but equally difficult in the UK, I would just have to pay someone to do things. There is a business in my town called Alquiler un Marido (very sexist I know but it always makes me smile) who do all kinds of odd jobs, may come in very handy one day!
> 
> I think the living alone and potential isolation would be the hardest thing, but I have very few family members left in the UK now and don't know many people there any more, so I could not see that aspect being any easier there than it would here. But as I said, I do recognise I could feel differently if placed in that situation.


Agree 100% Lynn. I haven't lived in the UK since 1986, can't envision going back, but never say never. Apart from what happens to you, there are your family circumstances here and there and unfortunately as we are seeing now unforeseen world politics and global issues come into play.


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

I think you can live and die in Spain without ever wanting to return to uk but you need to have made a effort to intergrate and have learnt the language else I feel you are simply living a life which is defined purely as not living in UK and that really isnt how to do it


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

kaipa said:


> I think you can live and die in Spain without ever wanting to return to uk but you need to have made a effort to intergrate and have learnt the language else I feel you are simply living a life which is defined purely as not living in UK and that really isnt how to do it


This is totally correct. The motivation behind moving is key


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## Mark s (Jun 6, 2019)

Being resident in Spain is a different thing to being tax resident. A good Spanish tax advisor is a must I think.


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

Mark s said:


> Being resident in Spain is a different thing to being tax resident. A good Spanish tax advisor is a must I think.


 A spanish resident is required to submit a model 100 so he must be a tax resident. How much he pays or deems necessary to declare is something else


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

kaipa said:


> I think you can live and die in Spain without ever wanting to return to uk but you need to have made a effort to intergrate and have learnt the language else I feel *you are simply living a life which is defined purely as not living in UK *and that really isnt how to do it


But that is exactly what some people want. It's maybe not your idea of how to do things, but some people do want to essentially live in the UK with more sunshine and that has its pros and cons for those people, for the people around them, even for the economy and the governments of both countries.


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

Pesky Wesky said:


> kaipa said:
> 
> 
> > I think you can live and die in Spain without ever wanting to return to uk but you need to have made a effort to intergrate and have learnt the language else I feel *you are simply living a life which is defined purely as not living in UK *and that really isnt how to do it
> ...



I am not saying that they shouldnt do it if thats what they want I am simply trying to say that it makes it harder to adapt to living in spain for the long run. I mean if everyday you watch Sky news and meet and speak English surely there comes a time when you might actually wish to return?


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

kaipa said:


> I am not saying that they shouldnt do it if thats what they want I am simply trying to say that it makes it harder to adapt to living in spain for the long run. I mean if everyday you watch Sky news and meet and speak English surely there comes a time when you might actually wish to return?


Why should that be? The one is not dependent on the other. Watching Sky News these days might have the opposite effect, might deter you from ever wanting to set foot in the U.K.

Not pointing a finger at you, far from it, but there are those who are very judgmental about how others live or should live here in Spain. As PW says, many people come here for better weather, a different type of life and they can enjoy that life without knowing a word of Spanish or 'integrating', whatever that means. No need for any adaptations, there are services of every kind from selling English groceries to English bars to English funeral services. There are people who have lived here for over thirty years who don't speak Spanish, lead English lives in the sun and are very happy doing so. It's not just the Brits either, Scandinavians, Belgians, Dutch all have their communities and own language services. 

I came here because my partner was fed up with the poor quality of everyday life and the cold winter weather in Prague. If it had been left to me, I would have stayed there or gone to live in Berlin or Munich. But we came here, I grew to like it here and I can state categorically that I'm here for the long run as will be eventually my mortal remains. I spend more time speaking Spanish than I do English, have friends of all nationalities and used to watch BBC and Sky news as well as La Sexta and Canal Sur. 
And when I get my DNI and give up my passport I will still be very English, a guiri in Spain.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

kaipa said:


> I think you can live and die in Spain without ever wanting to return to uk but you need to have made a effort to intergrate and have learnt the language else I feel you are simply living a life which is defined purely as not living in UK and *that really isnt how to do it*



Says who? Where in the Solicitud for Residencia does it state that?

I'm never sure what is meant by 'integration' although now and then someone tells us it's a Good Thing. As for learning the language: a retiree in their late sixties or seventies with no experience of studying isn't going to find learning a new language easy. Depending n where you choose to live, you may not need to anyway. I've taught languages for four decades as well as working as a freelance translator/interpreter and whilst acquiring a basic level of transaction speaking is fairly easy to grasp, understanding is something different and in my experience requires considerable immersion in the new language.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Overandout said:


> I might be reading between the lines here, but this example of a family leaving Spain due to redundancy seems to be quite contradictory.
> 
> As someone who is likely to be made redundant in the near future (the company I work for is being absorbed by a larger competitor) I would certainly not look at returning to the UK as a solution. My redundancy money will last me much longer in Spain that it would in the UK and I'm not even sure how he will be able to claim the Spanish unemployment benefit if they return to the UK.
> 
> I suspect that this family retained a strong economic interest in the UK and was not making contributions in Spain, which makes this the "easiest" way out.


No contradiction. The husband had an extremely well paid job working all over the world for an American petroleum company, sufficient to rent a large four bedroomed house with pool in a 'nice' area, send their son to a good private school and live the high life in Marbella. The wife didn't work. He made no contributions to the Spanish system and I suspect none of the family was registered as resident. 

They will return to a property they own in the UK. 

Nice people, they moved into the house I lived in for ten years after my partner died and I downsized. Not my lifestyle but sobre los gustos no hay disputos, as the saying goes.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

mrypg9 said:


> Says who? Where in the Solicitud for Residencia does it state that?
> 
> I'm never sure what is meant by 'integration' although now and then someone tells us it's a Good Thing. As for learning the language: a retiree in their late sixties or seventies with no experience of studying isn't going to find learning a new language easy. Depending n where you choose to live, you may not need to anyway. I've taught languages for four decades as well as working as a freelance translator/interpreter and whilst acquiring a basic level of transaction speaking is fairly easy to grasp, understanding is something different and in my experience requires considerable immersion in the new language.


You only require an ability in spoken Spanish and knowledge of Spanish history, politics and culture if you wish to become a Spanish citizen.
BTW, UK requires immigrants who wish to stay permanently from outside EU (as it currently stands) to speak English to B1 level as well as pass the Life in the UK test. It's likely that similar rule will apply to all from January. So UK thinks it's important for permanent residents to be able to integrate into British society.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Joppa said:


> You only require an ability in spoken Spanish and knowledge of Spanish history, politics and culture if you wish to become a Spanish citizen.
> BTW, UK requires immigrants who wish to stay permanently from outside EU (as it currently stands) to speak English to B1 level as well as pass the Life in the UK test. It's likely that similar rule will apply to all from January. So UK thinks it's important for permanent residents to be able to integrate into British society.


 And written Spanish. I did it. I've lived here for many years, but I still studied for the La Prueba de conocimientos constitucionales y socioculturales de España (prueba CCSE. And of course you also need the money to be able to pay for the exam.


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## Williams2 (Sep 15, 2013)

Mark s said:


> Being resident in Spain is a different thing to being tax resident. A good Spanish tax advisor is a must I think.


Suffice to say Spain isn't a tax haven and for those who think that all European
countries have ISA´s SIPPS and all manner of tax free savings accounts.

Then think again !!


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Joppa said:


> You only require an ability in spoken Spanish and knowledge of Spanish history, politics and culture if you wish to become a Spanish citizen.
> BTW, UK requires immigrants who wish to stay permanently from outside EU (as it currently stands) to speak English to B1 level as well as pass the Life in the UK test. It's likely that similar rule will apply to all from January. So UK thinks it's important for permanent residents to be able to integrate into British society.


I took and passed both those citizenship exams. The language exam is of medium level difficulty for someone unaccustomed to the mechanics of learning a second language.

As for this nebulous concept ‘ integration’....I’d be interested to knowyour definition. Whatever it is it has imo nothing whatsoever to do with language acquisition. You can be fluent in a language without setting foot in the country it belongs to. The same for knowledge of a country’s history, culture etc.

It’s quite possible for a fluent Spanish speaker witha sound knowledge of the culture, history etc. to spend their life in Spain in a British community living a British lifestyle with contact with the natives only for transactional purposes. Same with any country and language. 

So..what is this ‘integration’ without which you are not living properly as a foreigner in Spain? Oddly, nobody ever spoke of the need to ‘integrate’ when I lived in Germany or the Czech Republic.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Pesky Wesky said:


> And written Spanish. I did it. I've lived here for many years, but I still studied for the La Prueba de conocimientos constitucionales y socioculturales de España (prueba CCSE. And of course you also need the money to be able to pay for the exam.


I think it cost 400€. Or that might have included the fee for the criminal record check.

I studied for the culture, history etc. and have now forgotten most of what I had to learn. Often happens once an exam is passed. I didnt study for the language part as I wasnt sure how to start. I did look at the sample papers Xabia put online.

Now it’s a matter of waiting for the next step. An abogado friend has done everything for me so I’m waiting to hear from him. Someone said I have to swear an oath of loyalty to the King...


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

mrypg9 said:


> kaipa said:
> 
> 
> > I think you can live and die in Spain without ever wanting to return to uk but you need to have made a effort to intergrate and have learnt the language else I feel you are simply living a life which is defined purely as not living in UK and *that really isnt how to do it*
> ...



I think the idea of integration means that you are able to carry out everyday things in Spain without expecting everyone to do it in English.
There is nothing wrong with existing in a English community where everyone speaks English fine but going to the doctor's and wandering around asking people "Are you next?" or going to the police station for residency and expecting them to speak English is not right. If you dont speak Spanish pay for an interpreter or gestor or else integrate


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

kaipa said:


> I think the idea of integration means that you are able to carry out everyday things in Spain without expecting everyone to do it in English.
> There is nothing wrong with existing in a English community where everyone speaks English fine but going to the doctor's and wandering around asking people "Are you next?" or going to the police station for residency and expecting them to speak English is not right. If you dont speak Spanish pay for an interpreter or gestor or else integrate



So your concept of integration implies nothing more than the ability to have a transactional accomplishment of Spanish. Do you really think most foreigners resident here expect English/Dutch/Swedish to be spoken in every shop, office, doctor's surgery etc.? Maybe a minority do but most aren't that daft or blinkered.

Now try this for size I speak Czech well enough to do all those things you mention and a bit more. I worked teaching English to statisticians and sociologists at the Czech Statistical Institute. I had few Czech friends, a few more English friends. My Czech friends all insisted on speaking English with me. My home was 100% English. I watched British tv, followed English football, read English language newspapers, watched English language movies (Czech subtitles) at the cinema. I brought back English cheese, bacon, ham, coffee beans, chocolate, sausages , Quorn on my weekly trips to the UK. I bought my clothes and frozen food from Marks and Spencers in Prague. I shopped Czech only when obliged to.

By your language based criteria I was 'integrated'. I didn't consider myself as such.
Would you apply the same criteria to the mainly Pakistani Muslim communities in the Northern UK towns? Most of the men at least speak English, some fluently. They use local shops and services. Yet few people would consider these communities 'integrated' as the word is commonly understood.

Maybe best not to judge how people choose to live in a foreign country, unless of course they break laws or behave violently and disrespectfully.


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

mrypg9 said:


> So your concept of integration implies nothing more than the ability to have a transactional accomplishment of Spanish. Do you really think most foreigners resident here expect English/Dutch/Swedish to be spoken in every shop, office, doctor's surgery etc.? Maybe a minority do but most aren't that daft or blinkered.
> 
> Now try this for size I speak Czech well enough to do all those things you mention and a bit more. I worked teaching English to statisticians and sociologists at the Czech Statistical Institute. I had few Czech friends, a few more English friends. My Czech friends all insisted on speaking English with me. My home was 100% English. I watched British tv, followed English football, read English language newspapers, watched English language movies (Czech subtitles) at the cinema. I brought back English cheese, bacon, ham, coffee beans, chocolate, sausages , Quorn on my weekly trips to the UK. I bought my clothes and frozen food from Marks and Spencers in Prague. I shopped Czech only when obliged to.
> 
> ...


Clearly my husband who speaks very little Spanish is not really intergated in his community :rolleyes. It’s such an English middle class attitude. As if all foreigners are running around Spain asking for various languages to be spoken. We are more at home in our little corner of spain, where it’s not easy to find an English speaker or more importantly, someone confident enough to try the language they learnt at school, than I ever was in my English speaking village in Sussex. Intergrating into a community is all about the individual not what language they speak, smacks a bit of the local golf club attitude... your not really one of us!
As an aside, having been away for nearly five months and the Spanish speaker, he’s managed very well and has had lots of help from the community he’s not intergrated into very well due to his lack of language skills!


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

kaipa said:


> I agree. I think many many expat return for health reasons. Its hard enough I find just going to my doctor and I speak quite good spanish. Would hate to be in a position where it was something serious and I would need 100% understanding. I also think that when you are a newbie you always make grand statements along the lines of 'I will never return" only to find that you change alot as the years go by and it is hard to replace a sense of knowing and familiarity that your country and culture offer you. Oh yeah, and that house you thought you would rent forever but now need to sell but face a huge CGT. Or the inheritance with tax payable on the whole lot!!


I actually meant health problems of people in the UK, not my own. I'm covered by the Seguridad Social, so don't need to "go back"


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## tebo53 (Sep 18, 2014)

I absolutely and wholeheartedly praise the national health system here in Spain and believe that i wouldn't have survived my traumatic illness (because of my age and the huge costs) if i had been under the uk NHS. If you need a scan, if you need an x-ray or specialised treatment here in Spain that is taken care of immediately. In the U.K. you can wait weeks to get an appointment for an x-ray.

My command of the Spanish language is still not good and for medical reasons I pay an interpreter. I would never give up my life here to return to the UK for health reasons. 

Steve


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Pesky Wesky said:


> I actually meant health problems of people in the UK, not my own. I'm covered by the Seguridad Social, so don't need to "go back"


Same here. I also speak 'quite good Spanish' - well, I suppose I can say that, I passed the exam and now I'm not involved with ADANA spend more time speaking Spanish than English - but even in my first couple of years here I had no problem accessing medical services when needed. For over seven years now I've had regular appointments with cardiology plus two visits to Urgencias one with a three night stay and two overnights, one for pacemaker implant. Everything conducted in Spanish, including a (to me) rather alarming conversation between me and the surgeon about ADANA adoption procedures when in my view he should have been focused on inserting little wires into my heart.

The only time I felt I ought to have 100%+ comprehension was when I had my first post-pacemaker implant appointment so I took a bilingual Gibraltarian friend with me. I'm not criticising the staff of the NHS - I had hardly ever any cause to use it throughout my entire UK life - but underfunding by successive governments has left a dedicated hard-working team of doctors, nurses and all auxiliary workers struggling to deliver the high levels of service they would like to deliver. 
So it would never have occurred to me to 'go back'.


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

tebo53 said:


> I absolutely and wholeheartedly praise the national health system here in Spain and believe that i wouldn't have survived my traumatic illness (because of my age and the huge costs) if i had been under the uk NHS. If you need a scan, if you need an x-ray or specialised treatment here in Spain that is taken care of immediately. In the U.K. you can wait weeks to get an appointment for an x-ray.
> 
> My command of the Spanish language is still not good and for medical reasons I pay an interpreter. I would never give up my life here to return to the UK for health reasons.
> 
> Steve


I found the same after my cancer diagnosis last year. 3 days after initially seeing my GP because of suspicious symptoms I was seeing a specialist at our local hospital. The biopsy results took one week to come back (which was faster than I'd experienced when I had a biopsy for something else in the private sector in Spain some years earlier), and I had another immediate appointment with the specialist to get the result and discuss the treatment plan. An MRI scan followed 3 days later. After my surgery, although the cancer was detected early and a slow growing kind, I am still to have 6-monthly check-ups for two years and annual ones for a further three years. My first check-up in May went ahead exactly as scheduled, despite the CV19 situation. In the UK, someone who only needed surgery for this type of cancer would just be placed on "self-referral" post surgery, ie no check-ups at all unless the patient contacts them because they have experienced some symptom, and that was the case even before the pandemic.

They have an excellent team of volunteer interpreters at our local hospital and I did make use of their service for a couple of my specialist consultations just to make sure I didn't miss anything (although they said afterwards I hadn't really needed them) but it doesn't pay to be overconfident in those circumstances. I made a donation afterwards equal to what I would have paid a translator to their organisation, they do a wonderful job. One of them also came to my hospital room the morning after my operation to see if I needed any help, apparently it is a routine thing for foreign patients.


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## Isobella (Oct 16, 2014)

Never heard of complaints with either country. Plenty of bad examples in the news though although El Pais is not quite as bad as the Daily Fail. Overall waiting lists are about the same in both countries.Both have a shortage of Nurses etc. Most news recently is what hospitals are not doing since Covid emerged.


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## Isobella (Oct 16, 2014)

tebo53 said:


> I absolutely and wholeheartedly praise the national health system here in Spain and believe that i wouldn't have survived my traumatic illness (because of my age and the huge costs) if i had been under the uk NHS. If you need a scan, if you need an x-ray or specialised treatment here in Spain that is taken care of immediately. In the U.K. you can wait weeks to get an appointment for an x-ray.
> 
> My command of the Spanish language is still not good and for medical reasons I pay an interpreter. I would never give up my life here to return to the UK for health reasons.
> 
> Steve


X-rays are walk in now in my area (West Sussex) if referred by GP you are able to attend same day. Suspected cancer has a two week rule for tests and to see Consultant. Not sure it is happening since the virus as everything seems to be on hold. I had my routine echocardiogram in May but outpatients was almost empty!


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

The NHS target re cancer is for 85% of patients to be treated within 62 days of an urgent referral from a GP.

https://www.nuffieldtrust.org.uk/re...target that spans the,threshold is set at 90%.

I had my treatment (surgery) within 42 days of an urgent referral from my doctor here - and my cancer was very early stage and one of the least aggressive types.

I know from the MacMillan Cancer Care Forum that patients are routinely told that biopsy results will take 4-6 weeks (and sometimes people have waited longer) - this was from the period around September/October last year when I was diagnosed and waiting for treatment, just gathering information. My biopsy results took one week.

https://www.cancerresearchuk.org/about-cancer/cancer-chat/thread/waiting-for-biopsy-results-4


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## Roy C (Sep 29, 2012)

After reading the positive posts on here about the Spanish health service, I have decided instead of sticking with the private healthcare i will go on the convenio after the first year and then in a couple of years after I'll be able to use the S1 or whatever it is. I'm aware that the convenio will be hiked up for the last year but that will be fine.


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## tebo53 (Sep 18, 2014)

Are you resident in Spain now? You won't regret joining the Spanish healthcare system. 

Steve


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## Roy C (Sep 29, 2012)

tebo53 said:


> Are you resident in Spain now? You won't regret joining the Spanish healthcare system.
> 
> Steve


Hi Steve, no, not yet but we are applying in Sept when we arrive. We are back and forth but now have decided it's now or never. We would have moved here four years ago if it wasn't for the father in law getting Alzheimers.


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

Roy C said:


> After reading the positive posts on here about the Spanish health service, I have decided instead of sticking with the private healthcare i will go on the convenio after the first year and then in a couple of years after I'll be able to use the S1 or whatever it is. I'm aware that the convenio will be hiked up for the last year but that will be fine.


Although we have private insurance as well, we "road tested" the public health system in 2019 for all our healthcare needs apart from my annual check-up with my cardiologist. What we found was that for GP visits the public system was just as good and with equally quick access as the private one, in fact there was less queuing and waiting once we arrived for appointments in the public system (could be the fault of the private clinics we had to use in the local area, but I've been to a few over the years both locally and in Málaga, and in all of them there has been quite a long wait after the appointment time, whereas at our local centro de salud I have never had to wait longer than my appointment time and sometimes have even been able to go in earlier than that). 

For urgent and serious things, I've already described how good and how fast the cancer response and treatment was. Could not fault it. Also my husband had to go to the doctor after being in pain over a weekend and getting short of breath. The doctor sent him off to Urgencias at the local hospital, where he was booked in and triaged within 15 minutes, saw a doctor, had a blood test, ECG and X-ray, waited another 30 minutes to see the doctor again and get the results and a prescription, and we were back home 2.5 hours after we'd first left to go to see the GP at the health centre.

For more routine tests and specialist appointments, the wait will be longer. After the Urgencias episode the GP referred my husband to a pneumologist at the local hospital and he had to wait for five months before seeing her. That was the only thing that would have been faster in the private system, but it wasn't urgent, more of a "just in case" thing.

So once the Withdrawal Agreement was done and dusted and we could be sure our S1 cover would continue, we have decided to cancel our private health cover from the end of this year.


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## Isobella (Oct 16, 2014)

Lynn R said:


> Although we have private insurance as well, we "road tested" the public health system in 2019 for all our healthcare needs apart from my annual check-up with my cardiologist. What we found was that for GP visits the public system was just as good and with equally quick access as the private one, in fact there was less queuing and waiting once we arrived for appointments in the public system (could be the fault of the private clinics we had to use in the local area, but I've been to a few over the years both locally and in Málaga, and in all of them there has been quite a long wait after the appointment time, whereas at our local centro de salud I have never had to wait longer than my appointment time and sometimes have even been able to go in earlier than that).
> 
> For urgent and serious things, I've already described how good and how fast the cancer response and treatment was. Could not fault it. Also my husband had to go to the doctor after being in pain over a weekend and getting short of breath. The doctor sent him off to Urgencias at the local hospital, where he was booked in and triaged within 15 minutes, saw a doctor, had a blood test, ECG and X-ray, waited another 30 minutes to see the doctor again and get the results and a prescription, and we were back home 2.5 hours after we'd first left to go to see the GP at the health centre.
> 
> ...


If you can afford it I would carry on with private and keep the best of both. Always been lots of reports about long waits and they will have got longer during the virus outbreak. This was March in Andalucia when waiting lists were already 6% higher.

https://www.elmundo.es/andalucia/2020/03/10/5e67f3f621efa083448b4672.html


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

Isobella said:


> If you can afford it I would carry on with private and keep the best of both. Always been lots of reports about long waits and they will have got longer during the virus outbreak. This was March in Andalucia when waiting lists were already 6% higher.
> 
> https://www.elmundo.es/andalucia/2020/03/10/5e67f3f621efa083448b4672.html


If the serious and expensive stuff can be dealt with well in the public system (and I think it still will be) then if we have to pay as we go in the private system occasionally if we want some test or a specialist consultation, I think that will be cheaper. I may well carry on paying for an annual appointment with the cardiologist I have, just for continuity, but it'll be a lot cheaper than paying the annual premiums. That was the only thing either of us used the insurance for last year.


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

I have known cases of unusual treatments being referred from private clinics to the public system simply because the private clinic did not have the correct equipment to perform it.

In the end the private hospitals are a business and they are not going to invest in something without a business case demonstrating an economic return.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Overandout said:


> I have known cases of unusual treatments being referred from private clinics to the public system simply because the private clinic did not have the correct equipment to perform it.
> 
> In the end the private hospitals are a business and they are not going to invest in something without a business case demonstrating an economic return.


I was referred to a private ophthalmology clinic in Sevilla, by our optician (friends of his) but in four visits they had done nothing other than prescribe some expensive eye drops. It meant an overnight stay in a hotel each time so we could be there for a 9 am appointment so that SWMBO could get back in time for class and cost us, including fuel and parking, 1200€ plus the drops at 180€. I went to another local ophthalmologist and he used a bandage contact lens which gave me the clue for dealing with the damage to my corneas which I still use. Total cost 85€ for the ophthalmologist then 19,50€ every six months for lenses.


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## Isobella (Oct 16, 2014)

Lynn R said:


> If the serious and expensive stuff can be dealt with well in the public system (and I think it still will be) then if we have to pay as we go in the private system occasionally if we want some test or a specialist consultation, I think that will be cheaper. I may well carry on paying for an annual appointment with the cardiologist I have, just for continuity, but it'll be a lot cheaper than paying the annual premiums. That was the only thing either of us used the insurance for last year.


Sounds a good idea. I know a few people who ring fence themselves here. In all countries the longest waits appear to be hips, knees and other routine operations and most private hospitals give a fixed price on websites.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Lynn R said:


> If the serious and expensive stuff can be dealt with well in the public system (and I think it still will be) then if we have to pay as we go in the private system occasionally if we want some test or a specialist consultation, I think that will be cheaper. I may well carry on paying for an annual appointment with the cardiologist I have, just for continuity, but it'll be a lot cheaper than paying the annual premiums. That was the only thing either of us used the insurance for last year.


My excellent cardiologist works at the public Costa del Sol Hospital and also in the private sector. I get him for free. My friend Nela pays.

When I finally had enough of passing out, fracturing skull, breaking ankle twice and said to my GP 'Ya basta!!' I had six appointments covering every part of my anatomy within six weeks. One, a brain scan, at a private hospital, for some reason. Once it was decided that the cause of the losses of consciousness hadn't been detected, it took two weeks before I had a heart monitor implanted. Less than four weeks after that I had the pacemaker implanted.

I simply don't believe that I would have received better treatment in the private sector. My one experience of the private sector -taken against my will and under protest by a friend one Sunday when I fractured my ankle for the second time - the experience was dire and expensive, a total rip=off and the 'treatment' I got had to be put right at my consultorio.

The experience served to add to my moral objection against private healthcare. Getting better or faster treatment because you can afford to pay sticks in my craw. The private sector exists to make money. Fact.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

mrypg9 said:


> My excellent cardiologist works at the public Costa del Sol Hospital and also in the private sector. I get him for free.  My friend Nela pays.
> 
> When I finally had enough of passing out, fracturing skull, breaking ankle twice and said to my GP 'Ya basta!!' I had six appointments covering every part of my anatomy within six weeks. One, a brain scan, at a private hospital, for some reason. Once it was decided that the cause of the losses of consciousness hadn't been detected, it took two weeks before I had a heart monitor implanted. Less than four weeks after that I had the pacemaker implanted.
> 
> ...


 I know in the past, not sure now, sometimes SS doctors would suggest going private to have certain tests done as it was quicker...
OH as a teacher (civil servant) has to use private doctors. He doesn't pay. It's ridiculous


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## Roy C (Sep 29, 2012)

Mary, has the new hospital for Estepona opened yet?


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Deleted


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