# Scouting Retirement Towns in France



## Dennis from Bend OR

Bonjour,
We are an American retired couple in our 70s, pretty good health, one has Irish/EU citizenship. We've visited France several times and love the culture and the historical vibes. Our plan is find a "good fit" city for a 90-day AirBnB Apartment stay in Spring 2023 to test the expat waters with very weak French. Eventually planning to go thru the residency and long stay process to spend 9 months per year in France. 
We'll be in Lyon for 3 days in early November and seek advice on which districts to visit for the best livability for sr expats looking to enter la Vie Français in Lyon. We'd love to hear from other sr expats. esp. US, who've been through the process of finding their "happy place" in Lyon or nearby. We hope for time to check nearby Chambery too.
On this trip, we'll focus on living issues like safety, costs, local transportation, access to heath care, and general livability. Of course we want to be close to routine shopping, cafes, the Metro, and in a fairly flat part of town. We love the historic buildings for France but a modern apartment area would be our preference. No time for tourist stuff this trip.
We're also checking out Dijon, Toulouse, and Paris suburbs. 
Merci beaucoup for your help.


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## Bevdeforges

Not sure about the "9 months per year in France" thing, but if you are Americans, you will always be considered "tax resident" in the US no matter where you live. And if you're spending 9 months a year (actually anything over 183 days in any calendar year) in France, you'll be "presumed" to be tax resident in France unless you can show cause why not. 

As far as the areas you mention for retirees - just be aware that there are quite a few areas in the "Paris suburbs" that are considered a "medical desert" in terms of availability of doctors. Granted, as long as you can get in and out of Paris without too much difficulty, you can usually manage to find whatever doctors, hospitals and specialists you need.


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## Peasant

Dennis from Bend OR said:


> We'll be in Lyon for 3 days in early November and seek advice on which districts to visit for the best livability for sr expats...


In order:

Croix-Rousse in the 4th arrondisment and the flat bit of the 1st at the top of the hill.
The 6th arrondisment if you can find somewhere affordable
Montplaisir in the 8th arrondisment
Pont Du Jour in the 5th arrondisment
The close in bits of Caluire-et-Cuire just north of Croix-Rousse
Parts of Villeurbanne

Alll of the above are good places to live, with good shops, good facilities and access public transportation.


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## Dennis from Bend OR

Bevdeforges said:


> Not sure about the "9 months per year in France" thing, but if you are Americans, you will always be considered "tax resident" in the US no matter where you live. And if you're spending 9 months a year (actually anything over 183 days in any calendar year) in France, you'll be "presumed" to be tax resident in France unless you can show cause why not.
> 
> As far as the areas you mention for retirees - just be aware that there are quite a few areas in the "Paris suburbs" that are considered a "medical desert" in terms of availability of doctors. Granted, as long as you can get in and out of Paris without too much difficulty, you can usually manage to find whatever doctors, hospitals and specialists you need.


We won't have any French income, so taxes shouldn't be complicated. We're also familiarizing ourselves with health insurance requirements until French residency is established. We're focused on assuring access to health care, just in case, and are planning to investigate it in each candidate city as best we can. Is it difficult to find a primary doctor in Lyon? English speaking? 
Paris is a long shot. We're most familiar with Paris but costs are very high and we prefer a little warmer winter, especially with what's happening to energy costs.


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## Bevdeforges

Whether you have French income or not is pretty much irrelevant. You will need to declare "worldwide income" on both your US returns and on your French declarations. The key thing is figuring out how to declare your US income (particularly pensions - like US SS) on the French forms so as to receive the proper tax credit at French rates. Ultimately it's simpler than what the IRS expects for those declaring a French (or other foreign) pension - but tricky the first couple times around.

Finding a "medecin traitant" is always a bit tricky here, no matter where you are located. The "numerus clausus" was done away with a few years back - but it will take the additional medical students now in training a good 7 to 10 years more before they graduate and are available in general practice. If you hold out for an "English speaking" doctor, be prepared to wait quite a bit longer or be ready to travel considerably greater distances and/or endure longer waits for appointments. Not said to discourage you, but just to let you know what you're getting into if you are holding out for an English speaking doctor.


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## jweihl

Not sure that Lyon is warmer in the winter than Paris ... one article says not, Where Should I Study French: Paris or Lyon? (3C vs 8C). I imagine you'd have to truly pick somewhere further south to get noticeably warmer weather. Maybe Montpellier or Nice?


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## Peasant

Dennis from Bend OR said:


> We won't have any French income, so taxes shouldn't be complicated.


France doesn't tax retirement income so if your income is from IRAs, 401Ks and US pensions you won't have to pay French taxes on it.
You'll have to submit a French tax return but there should be a credit equal to the calculated taxes that you would have paid.
You'll have to file and pay US income taxes on your US income.


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## Dennis from Bend OR

Peasant said:


> In order:
> 
> Croix-Rousse in the 4th arrondisment and the flat bit of the 1st at the top of the hill.
> The 6th arrondisment if you can find somewhere affordable
> Montplaisir in the 8th arrondisment
> Pont Du Jour in the 5th arrondisment
> The close in bits of Caluire-et-Cuire just north of Croix-Rousse
> Parts of Villeurbanne
> 
> Alll of the above are good places to live, with good shops, good facilities and access public transportation.


Great; exactly the sort of specifics we really need to get the most from our time in Lyon next month.


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