# IRS Declaration



## Bicky

Last year I successfully made my own IRS submission on line - my computer was using Windows operating system. This year I am using Linux operating system with Linux Mint.
I am having difficulty in locating a download point for my Modelo 3 using Linux.
Has anyone any experience of this.


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## canoeman

Not familiar with Linux, have enough trouble with Windows, but if you look at Financas Home page, but it's on all pages, in left Blue column *Downloads* when you click on e.g IRS there are options to download for Windows, Mac and Linux, whether you can then complete online, really don't know best of luck


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## Bicky

Thanks for this - NO cannot do anything on line - I will download, print, Adobe PDF versions - then take to Financas.


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## canoeman

Or use a friends computer with Windows 

As I say I'm not familiar with Linux but I thought most users also had Windows installed as well


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## Bicky

I could install Windows as a " Dual Boot" however I deliberately moved away from Windows because Linux for 99% of the time is better, NO Virus problems, and ALL software is FREE.


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## chrispenela

*IRS Modelo 3.*

Hi Bicky,
You will not be able to submit your declaration until your local Finances make the software available.
Paper submissions have to be returned by 31/03/2012.
Electronic by 30/04/2012.
Software should be available for use by beginning of April I believe.
If you log on to Financas Portal for your area you will find a Fiscal Agenda (Diary for the Fiscal (tax) activities). You will be able to open the IRS section for Modelo 3 returns but will see that the current declaration year (20011) is not yet loaded.
If you wait for this to be available I believe you will find all the information fields you used last year will be partly filled in except for the 2011 figures. Much easier than rewriting everything on paper every year !
Good luck.
Chris.


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## Bicky

BRILLIANT and thank you - Will wait t'ill the end of April - let you know how I get on !


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## canoeman

Just further there are two filing dates within Paper or Electronic, which you use depends on your type of income, you should check which you come under


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## Bicky

Mine is ALL pensionable income - Tax Credits are only Medical - All very simple really, but as we know necessary to file details.


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## canoeman

In that case Paper by 30th March, Electronic by 30th April


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## chrispenela

Hi Bicky,
Don't wait till end of April to submit or you will miss return date.
Check the Financas site from beginning of April for the availability of the Mod 3 software being loaded for 2011 year.
Chris.


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## canoeman

Not sure what you mean about waiting for IRS 2011 to be ready, it's available to download now and also in your Personal Tax area, or at least mine is.


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## chrispenela

*IRS Declaration Mod 3.*



canoeman said:


> Not sure what you mean about waiting for IRS 2011 to be ready, it's available to download now and also in your Personal Tax area, or at least mine is.


Hi Canoeman,
The Mod 3 is available for download and print for paper returns if you want to start from scratch.
If I want to submit electronically using the Financas software and information submitted from my last years return i.e all information supplied for 2010 return already filled in for 2011,other than monetry amounts, then that does not normally become available from my Financas office until nearer the due month i.e March or April. I have used this system since 2003 and find it much easier and quicker to complete. The help menus "pop up" when you need them but after the first submission you just follow through the fields you used last year - assuming your situation has not changed since the last submission, and fill in the new annual amounts.
I don´t know if this is the same everywhere but can only speak from my experience in my Financas area. 
If this is not the case I apologise for any confusion caused.
Chris.


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## canoeman

No problem, think it's just that we both achieve same result in different ways, I'll pull up my 2010 return online then make any required changes and save ready to file at appropriate time.


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## chrispenela

*IRS Declaration.*



canoeman said:


> No problem, think it's just that we both achieve same result in different ways, I'll pull up my 2010 return online then make any required changes and save ready to file at appropriate time.


Hi,
No problem with this. only issue that could arise is ...if the requirements or format change at any time you would be working on an out of date issue, unless you check for any amendments to requirements before you download and then download the latest blank issue and start again.
We use whatever we are comfortable with.
Good to hear your comments.
Chris.


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## Bicky

Hi we seem to be developing a healthy discussion on this topic. I shall keep a look out for the 2011 download/ work off line.
I have already downloaded the PDF paper 2011 docs to work on, a cursory glance seems to indicate no changes. I require Modelo 3 and Annexe A for pension income. 
If, and I most probably will - need some guidance when the time comes.I will make contact. I am not entirely convinced about the Linux download facility. At the moment I draw a blank but this must be because the 2011 package is not yet installed ?


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## chrispenela

Bicky said:


> Hi we seem to be developing a healthy discussion on this topic. I shall keep a look out for the 2011 download/ work off line.
> I have already downloaded the PDF paper 2011 docs to work on, a cursory glance seems to indicate no changes. I require Modelo 3 and Annexe A for pension income.
> If, and I most probably will - need some guidance when the time comes.I will make contact. I am not entirely convinced about the Linux download facility. At the moment I draw a blank but this must be because the 2011 package is not yet installed ?


Hi Bicky,
I use Mod 3 and anexes H and J for pension income.
Chris.


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## chrispenela

Bicky said:


> Hi we seem to be developing a healthy discussion on this topic. I shall keep a look out for the 2011 download/ work off line.
> I have already downloaded the PDF paper 2011 docs to work on, a cursory glance seems to indicate no changes. I require Modelo 3 and Annexe A for pension income.
> If, and I most probably will - need some guidance when the time comes.I will make contact. I am not entirely convinced about the Linux download facility. At the moment I draw a blank but this must be because the 2011 package is not yet installed ?


Hi Bicky,
I had to check Annex A which you mentioned you use.
This is for pensions paid in Portugal as per Portuguese nationals not foreign expats.
I assume your pension is paid from UK - hence you need Annex J for this and Annex H for
health allowances - e.g health insurance, prescriptions and farmacy receipts.
Chris.


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## canoeman

Same as Chris, J&H downloads for Mod3 2011 are there for W32/64bit, Mac & linux either from Financas Homepage on left Downloads or through your Personal page either IRS or Entregar


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## Bicky

Hi Guys - thanks for this - of course you are absolutely correct - I just checked my 2010 return and yes the annexes are J & H. I took the requirement for Annex A from the Financas page, not realising this was for Portuguese pensions.
Regarding the comments from Canoeman I am confused as to where these downloads are. I would be grateful if he could guide me through how to get to them.


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## canoeman

Financas *Home Page* https://www.portaldasfinancas.gov.pt/pt/home.action

left hand side *Downloads* https://www.portaldasfinancas.gov.pt/pt/menu.action?pai=348

Select *IRS* opens https://www.portaldasfinancas.gov.pt/pt/main.jsp?body=/de/menuDownIRS.jsp click on your operating system, download.

or from your O SEU ESPAÇO (Personal Page) IRS should be showing as a To Do with date to file by, there is also a download symbol (arrow pointing down into a tray) which takes you to the same IRS 2011 download as above.


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## Bicky

Hi once again thanks - below annotated the problems.

Select IRS opens https://www.portaldasfinancas.gov.pt...enuDownIRS.jsp click on your operating system, download. - the problem here is NO Linux !!, also shows 2010 for the op systems

O SEU ESPAÇO (Personal Page) IRS should be showing as a To Do with date to file by, there is also a download symbol (arrow pointing down into a tray) which takes you to the same IRS 2011 download as above. Got this O.K. gives my File date as 12th April but the download symbol does nothing


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## canoeman

https://www.portaldasfinancas.gov.pt/pt/main.jsp?body=/de/menuDownIRS.jsp

Sorry but mine does Mod3 2011, either by clicking on tray or via the Entradar?(forgotten spelling) folder below or via Downloads on left

Unix = Linux I thought they where compatible, maybe a visit to one of the forums The UNIX and Linux Forums - Learn UNIX and Linux from Experts for help, otherwise you'll need Windows


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## Bicky

Hi once again and many thanks. I don't know your area but I come under the Lagos Financas jurisdiction the message I get is :-


To learn what steps should be followed in completing and submitting the claims, see the answer to the question How to complete the statement without being connected to the Internet?

Its mandatory reporting is only fulfilled after the submission of data and obtaining the identification of the declaration and the date and time of receipt.


Statements for the year 2010:


Format	Description	Version	Date
Modelo3IRSv2011_windows.exe	For Windows (32 bit)	2.0.23	09/19/2011
Modelo3IRSv2011_windows-x64.exe	For Windows (64 Bit)	2.0.23	09/19/2011
Modelo3IRSv2011_macos.dmg	For Mac	2.0.23	09/19/2011
Modelo3IRSv2011_unix.sh	For Other Unix Systems	2.0.23	09/19/2011

I can see me having to make a paper declaration this time around.
Now I must proceed with my Driving Licence renewal !!


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## canoeman

Yes but software is 2011, and I can pull up my 2010 return which forms basis for 2011 return.

Paper ones get filed earlier, don't get caught out, unfortunately I have two sets of dates both reputable sources, so worth checking
First says 1 Feb to 15 March
Second says 30 march


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## canoeman

Bicky, I just realized you highlighted 2010 in red, which is the year *you need*

Tax year Jan > Dec 2010 filed 2011

Tax year Jan > Dec 2011 filed 2012


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## chrispenela

Hi Canoeman - this one is going to run for a while I think.
Can you insert year 2011 on the Mod 3 Rosto in table 2 ?
I cannot at this time but normally at a later date this is available.
After this date when I open the software to enter the current year (i.e. 2011 for this return) I find all the information including the "Ano dos Rendimentos" 2011 available.
From looking back through the thread it still seems to me that we have a difference in information currently available through different Financas offices ?
As you said in earlier post we are getting to same result through different approaches but ...
if it works for each of us no problem.
Chris.


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## canoeman

Information available from Financas site should be identical for everyone, it's from a central database not individual offices (hopefully), I'll check Your question when I've a bit more time and get back


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## RoystonB

Hi Bicky and All,

About to do my first IRS submission and not sure as to Paper or Internet. Spent the last week translation Instruction for Modelo 3 and Anexo J. Most of the translation is readable, but still have loads of questions. Basically seems fairly easy (Famous Last Words), but had sooooo many problems with the UK Internet system had to revert to paper.

With the Internet submission, how do you show proof of Income (just a pension in my case), Does the IRS contact you later?

With the paper submission, is there a drop off point in the Financas office or is it best to Post. If so to Local or Regional?

Good Luck and many thanks, RoystonB


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## Bicky

Hi Royston - this is very much the blind leading the blind !!.
I can only speak from my experiences - proof of income - no need to include details with any submission, paper or otherwise. IF Financas have a query - be assured they will contact you asking for details.
In my Financas office there is a Balcao where you can drop off submissions and obtain a receipt. Never tried the Mail, but it must be possible. I live in a VERY rural area, not everyone has internet skills, or transport into the Town.
Good luck to you also - would appreciate a post as to how you get on !


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## canoeman

You don't, you enter pension, tax paid in UK etc in correct places Financas will make contact if they want proof etc. Records need to be kept for 10 years here.

Exchange rate I've always had to use exchange rate at date of payment/pension not the date money transferred here.

Paper hand deliver, Financas's will issue a receipt and check through with you if you've a nice Tax Office. I wouldn't chance posting even Registered

Maybe we should combine our translations and have a Dummies guide to Tax returns


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## chrispenela

Hi ,
I see we are gathering momentum here !
As has been said there is no requirement to return "evidence" of entries on the IRS return but records should be kept for 10 years in case of a future request. I can't say I have seen the period of 10 years written down but has always been the quoted length of time. If anyone has a reference point I would be grateful.
I have copies of my records since I started in 2002 but have never been asked for a copy.
As per the preferred option for submissions I would recommend the electronic submission as has been discussed.Once you have made your first it is as easy as climbing Everest.... No SERIOUSLY - it couldn´t be easier. Trust me I am an astronaut.
Royston - you mentioned Annex J which is for your Pension submission but are you aware that you can claim all medical expenses as an allowance against your tax bill ?
You need to keep Farmacy receipts ( in case they are requested) and add the total to the Annex H , item 802.If you have health insurance it is also entered in this Annex.
If you have bought solar panels or other items "ambient friendly" you are also able to show against tax as an allowance.
Sorry if I am teaching you to suck eggs !
Chris.


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## canoeman

Pharmacy receipts must have your name* printed* on by Pharmacy, Financas will no longer accept written names.
No reference point for 10 year retention of records, but two accountants have stated it.


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## chrispenela

*Pharmacy receipts.*

Hi, You are correct- I forgot to mention that your name has to appear on the receipt.
I normally use the same local pharmacy who set up my name on their cash machine some years ago and it appears printed out with the transaction and amount each time now.


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## canoeman

On the same vein, your *NIF* numbers should be *printed* on any receipts, invoices that you intend to declare for *any* IRS purposes, also when selling property if you need to claim Estate Agents fees for CGT etc they must be named in the Escritura.

Sorry not yet had a chance to check 2011Mod3


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## RoystonB

Translated the Instruction on the Anexo J, but it seems that my Jargonese is worse than my Portuguese. 

Pension……… I take to be Private Pension. Public Pension…….. I take to be State Pension. But I can’t find the Table to declare any Savings Interest received from my UK bank. Thought it might be 418, but then got a little confused when reading. Maybe my translation. :ranger:

Many thanks for all the Information and to Bicky for the thread.

RoystonB


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## canoeman

Your UK Pensions entered 416 + any UK tax paid
This link is a full set of instructions for Mod3. Anexo J page 8613, instructions 8617.

If you open on web you can copy & Paste into a translator, which is what I do for the areas I need, then saved into my own Mod3 translated file.


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## canoeman

Just realized I hadn't actually posted link, apologies and it also copies and pastes from pdf file, but webs clearer.

http://info.portaldasfinancas.gov.p...E3-913C-B9825475856E/0/Portaria_1404-2009.pdf


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## Bicky

Hi again - a few more questions on filing the IRS for 2011.

Can you advise what Exchange coefficient I should use for converting my Sterling pensions into Euros. I could of course convert individually relevant to the time of receipt, but I believe Financas have a set figure that they use as is applicable on 31st Dec.

I also have some private medical insurance taken out in 2011 - I presume this is filed under annex H - but what number ?

Lastly - I have access to a Windows machine for filing my returns !! - however this is through a neighbour who I don't wish to pester and annoy - with this in mind could you let me know when the 2011 Software is up and running - all I need to do is enter the numbers.:juggle:


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## RoystonB

Hi,

Had a look a couple of days ago. The 2011 software is in place. 

I have to file the Modelo 3 and Annex J, so have to wait until May. 

Good Luck, RoystonB


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## canoeman

Royston don't leave it too late in May everyone will be trying to file. My info says 
10 March - 15 April if only salaries and/or pension income.

2011's there Think it's 730 in Anexo H, but I'd check with provider they'll know.

Code 730 - health insurance premiums
Are state insurance premiums or contributions paid to mutual associations which, in any case,
cover only health risks, for the taxpayers or their dependents, paid by those
or by third parties, since in this case have been proven taxed as income of the subjects
liabilities (paragraph 3 of art. 86. of the CIRS).

I've always been told to use exchange rate at date of payment, so pension paid into UK A/c I take that days rate, pensions paid into Portuguese A/c's I just use that figure.


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## Bicky

Thanks for this - just had a preview on my neighbours computer.

Can I take it that I draw up the return for 2010 , make the amendments to income/expenditure change the year to 2011 - verify - then submit.

Or do I have to start with a blank canvass - and re compile the data.


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## canoeman

yup that's what i was saying a few weeks back but I save changes for a while before going through process of actually submitting, like to mull it over


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## Bicky

canoeman said:


> yup that's what i was saying a few weeks back but I save changes for a while before going through process of actually submitting, like to mull it over


Brilliant - thanks for all your help and guidance on this - I shall do the same, mull it over for a while before the final button push !:clap2:


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## chrispenela

Hi, I see we are still going with this one.
I have just caught up on new postings since I was last here and I totally agree with Canoeman´s comments especially about not leaving the submission until May. Why wait, get it in early rather than late and avoid the penalty charge that will be levied if it is overdate !
Last year I was 2 hours late i.e 2am the day after due date due to internet connection problems and could not avoid paying the penalty. Looks as though you have cracked it Bicky and remember to save a copy on disk if the computer you use is not yours and take it with you for next year ! I think Canoeman should now be on your Christmas list


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## Bicky

chrispenela said:


> Hi, I see we are still going with this one.
> I have just caught up on new postings since I was last here and I totally agree with Canoeman´s comments especially about not leaving the submission until May. Why wait, get it in early rather than late and avoid the penalty charge that will be levied if it is overdate !
> Last year I was 2 hours late i.e 2am the day after due date due to internet connection problems and could not avoid paying the penalty. Looks as though you have cracked it Bicky and remember to save a copy on disk if the computer you use is not yours and take it with you for next year ! I think Canoeman should now be on your Christmas list


 Believe me - he is !!!!


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## canoeman

These sites might be of interest to those who do their own IRS returns or are employed, self employed or considering it, useful for general information and heads up on IRS changes, and some useful simulators
Pedro e o Blog | As suas finanças pessoais

Actualidade | Maisvalias


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## Bicky

Very Useful - as always - thank's


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## Bicky

RoystonB said:


> Hi,
> 
> Had a look a couple of days ago. The 2011 software is in place.
> 
> I have to file the Modelo 3 and Annex J, so have to wait until May.
> 
> Good Luck, RoystonB


Hi Royston - sorry to be a nuisance - cannot find this 2011 anywhere. I can pull up my 2010 return, modify figures as necessary but CANNOT change the applicable submission year to 2011. I have the feeling I am " Too Soon " ?


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## RoystonB

Sorry, went to Portal das Finanças and it gives Mod. 3-2011 income Deductions, tax benefits and fees, but that’s just info, I now realize. 

Basically stating 

STATEMENTS SUBMITTED BY INTERNET
• During the month of April only to declare
The categories of income and A or H
• During the month of May, in other cases
STATEMENTS SUBMITTED IN SUPPORT OF PAPER
• During the month of March only to declare
The categories of income and A or H
• During the month of April, in other cases

Went to Portal das Finanas and it stall says Statements for the financial year 2010:

Sorry again, misread it (Brain is going ) RoystonB


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## Bicky

O.K. - Fear Not - I just wanted to get this out of the way , but guess I am jumping the gun too soon.


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## chrispenela

*IRS Modelo 3 2011 Return.*



Bicky said:


> O.K. - Fear Not - I just wanted to get this out of the way , but guess I am jumping the gun too soon.


Hi Bicky,
This goes back to my posting of 8th Feb, when I asked Canoeman if he could input the correct year on the Modelo 3. I don´t know if he has tried yet - I cannot see a confirmation but he agreed to try and get back a response when he has time.
As Canoeman and I agreed at the time all the software should be identical but this area seemed a bit grey which is why I raised the input of current year question.
As I said at that time I have never been able to enter the current required date until nearer the date of submission requirement. i.e when the financas "open the door" .
If you have a portal user name and password you should receive an announcement in your messages to tell you when you can "come in !" i.e the software is ready and the final date of submission .
I think we have played this one to death. Any newcomer should first read through the postings from start before raising a question that has already been answered or the situation gets more confusing.
Not being critical - just trying to help.
Chris.


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## Bicky

chrispenela said:


> Hi Bicky,
> This goes back to my posting of 8th Feb, when I asked Canoeman if he could input the correct year on the Modelo 3. I don´t know if he has tried yet - I cannot see a confirmation but he agreed to try and get back a response when he has time.
> As Canoeman and I agreed at the time all the software should be identical but this area seemed a bit grey which is why I raised the input of current year question.
> As I said at that time I have never been able to enter the current required date until nearer the date of submission requirement. i.e when the financas "open the door" .
> If you have a portal user name and password you should receive an announcement in your messages to tell you when you can "come in !" i.e the software is ready and the final date of submission .
> I think we have played this one to death. Any newcomer should first read through the postings from start before raising a question that has already been answered or the situation gets more confusing.
> Not being critical - just trying to help.
> Chris.


 Fully Agree.


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## canoeman

Sorry real internet problems at moment, current state of play, IRS completed and saved for 2011, no I can't upload yet, because as you say 2011 not on drop down menu yet.

What confuses me every year is published dates for filing via internet don't agree with IRS dates in my Personal area which this year is saying 27 April deadline 30 April.


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## cpinto

*Need help filing the IRS forms?*

Hi everyone,

we've launched an online service called Modelo3.pt which should be helpful if you know very little about Portuguese taxes. 

You won't need to install anything (as such you can use it from any kind of computer you have). Also, if you're not to familiar with the Portuguese language, we've had reports of people successfully using Modelo3.pt with the Google Translation tools.

There's a free plan which you can use to check whether or not Modelo3.pt fits your needs so feel free to drop by and try it. Do get in touch via [email protected] if you need assistance.

Looking forward to see you there.

Regards,
Celso


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## Bicky

Hi Guys - here we go again. I have successfully submitted my return for 2011, however I am assisting a colleague and he needs to file property rental return for this he needs Anexo F ( Rendimentos Predias ). We have successfully gone thro' the Mod 3 Rosto but CANNOT obtain the Annex F. Are we too early ? or any ideas.


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## canoeman

Mine filed as well, happy days.
I can't bring up Anexo F either, no idea why not I'm afraid but this is the paper copy. http://info.portaldasfinancas.gov.p...-EE14-4D79-A9A9-94E8E36BE6D2/0/ANUAL-AN-F.pdf
and information and instructions for* Anexo F page 43* here http://info.portaldasfinancas.gov.p...E3-913C-B9825475856E/0/Portaria_1404-2009.pdf


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## Bicky

Hey Ho - got the answer - on searching Rosto I found the following info :-
Durante o mes de Maio se tiverem sido obtidos rendimentos de outras categorias. - so as I thought I am too soon - yet again !!. Will have to wait t'ill May.


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## chrispenela

*Annex F.*

Hi Bicky,
I was about to reply when I picked up your answer - well done.

You were correct this annex will not appear until May return due. Same issue as you had initially. As conoeman said he could not bring up on line but he was able to prodiuce paper version earlier. Personally I still think it easier to wait until info is there to use in full , but in your friends case where he needs an additional Annex, it means submitting Annex F at later date ... but no problem. We all have our preferences and once you have submitted a couple of returns you will decide on yours. 
In the meantime congratulations on cracking another nut . 
Don't it feel good !
Chris.


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