# Moving to Italy



## mthistle (Jun 2, 2014)

Hi there,

We are moving to Italy ... in about one year. 

My history - I was born in Italy, immigrated to Canada with my parents when I was 10. Became a Canadian citizen when I was 15. I married a Canadian, have two adult sons with kids of their own and currently own a successful North American style diner.
I speak basic fluent Italian with the odd English word thrown in ... Itlanglish...

The object - to gain Italian citizenship which will allow my kids to become Italian citizens in the future.

The Plan with a capital P - My family in Italy have confirmed Italian citizenship is not a problem for me if I live in Italy for one year ... sigh! what a hardship!

I will sell the restaurant and live on the proceeds for the year while I wait for citizenship, I've been told it could happen much faster but I'll be ready for a year.

I will keep my house here, rent it and rent something in Italy.

During my year I will scope out areas that will suit us. My family is in Veneto but I don't think I want to stay there, looking for warmer weather and less expensive real estate.

Once I have citizenship - kids join me in Italy and we start the process to get them citizenship. At some point if all goes well I will sell either the house or cabin in Canada and purchase a B and B. My sons with my help will run/maintain the B and B all the while tutoring English, open a Jiu Jitsu club, my son has a black belt, my daughter in law is a certified yoga instructor so she will teach yoga in the same space that my son runs jiu jitsu and the other son will run basketball camps, he played at college level and is also certified to coach ... my husband will collect his Canadian pension and I will have my pension in 6 years from now.

So having said all that ... the questions are: does this make sense? what cities might work best for the plan? Any other thoughts or comments?

Thanks, Margaret


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## pudd 2 (Dec 10, 2008)

mthistle said:


> Hi there,
> 
> We are moving to Italy ... in about one year.
> 
> ...


hi thats a lot to take in but if you want warm come to abruzzo one of the best worst kept secrets in italy .

lots of italians left my vilage after the war to start a new life in canada . otowa in this case . i live in pretoro a hilside town over looking the sea cool in the summer and by yourb standards warm in the winter , hardly need a coat here in the winter , some canadians areb nowb coming back to trace there roots and some are coming to retire here 

we bought our house from an italian canadian and still fly the maple leaf as a respect for them any way any ?? you may have il be glad to anwer them wecome to this forum


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## NickZ (Jun 26, 2009)

mthistle said:


> So having said all that ... the questions are: does this make sense? what cities might work best for the plan? Any other thoughts or comments?


You can reclaim your citizenship but assuming your kids were born after you naturalized in Canada they'll have to wait three years for citizenship. They would also need a visa of some sort to live and work in Italy.

The other problem is the economy is horrible. 

Have you talked to the consulate at all? Normally the first step is for you to tell the consulate that you intend to reclaim your citizenship.

Do you have any family left in Italy? Being near them can be an advantage. So don't rule out that out.


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## BBCWatcher (Dec 28, 2012)

mthistle said:


> My family in Italy have confirmed Italian citizenship is not a problem for me if I live in Italy for one year ... sigh! what a hardship!
> 
> I will sell the restaurant and live on the proceeds for the year while I wait for citizenship, I've been told it could happen much faster but I'll be ready for a year.


No, you're over-engineering that, and your family is not fully informed. There is no one year waiting period if you make a simple declaration of your intention to reacquire Italian citizenship at your local Italian consulate. Then go to Italy -- take a bedroom in your family's house if they're willing. Their commune can then restore your citizenship instantly, or at least as fast as they can handle the paperwork.

With your citizenship restored (in days or weeks), get your new Italian passport and ID card, then go wherever you want. Including back to your diner if you wish.

But before we even get to all that, you said you acquired Canadian citizenship at age 15. How? Was that because both your parents naturalized as Canadian citizens, and you acquired Canadian citizenship with them, or was there some other set of events?

Before determining whether you can restore your Italian citizenship one has to make sure it was actually lost.


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## mthistle (Jun 2, 2014)

BBCWatcher said:


> No, you're over-engineering that, and your family is not fully informed. There is no one year waiting period if you make a simple declaration of your intention to reacquire Italian citizenship at your local Italian consulate. Then go to Italy -- take a bedroom in your family's house if they're willing. Their commune can then restore your citizenship instantly, or at least as fast as they can handle the paperwork.
> 
> With your citizenship restored (in days or weeks), get your new Italian passport and ID card, then go wherever you want. Including back to your diner if you wish.
> 
> ...


I have confirmed with the Italian consulate my Italian citizenship is lost. I became a Canadian citizenship with my parents in 1977. No one on my fathers side immigrated so I have lots of family and it was my uncle who told me citizenship could be restored very easily and quickly but the consulate told me one year and so I am preparing for a year but hoping for a few weeks. My plan is to rent in Oderzo, TV and scope out different areas from there. It could turn out that Veneto will work but so far it all looks expensive. I am done with the diner, as much as I enjoy the work it's hard on my body and tired of long days and even longer weeks, everything hurts...so if all I get from this adventure is my Italian citizenship and one year in Italy I'll be one happy gal.
Just wondering if a b and b and a fitness studio would work and where it would work best.


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## BBCWatcher (Dec 28, 2012)

OK, if your parents and you all naturalized together as Canadian citizens, yes, your Italian citizenship was lost, provided of course that all occurred before August 15, 1992.

You're confusing a couple issues here on reacquisition of Italian citizenship. There is a one year deadline, but that's the maximum allowed time for you to move (or "move") to Italy from the date you make your declaration of your intention to reacquire at your local Italian consulate. Once you arrive in Italy after making that declaration, there is no waiting period. Find a place to live -- a bedroom in your family's home works if that's possible -- and the commune can push the paperwork through as fast as they like. Any delay is theirs and theirs alone -- the law has no waiting period requirement once you arrive.

The provision of Italian citizenship law providing for immediate reacquisition of Italian citizenship after making a declaration of intention at your consulate is Legge n. 91 (5 febbraio 1992), as amended, Article 13, paragraph 1, section (c). There is a section (d) that provides for reacquisition of Italian citizenship after one year of residence in Italy if you fail to make a declaration of intention at your local consulate before you leave, but nobody uses that part of the law intentionally.

Your reacquisition of Italian citizenship only affects any minor children you may have (under 18). Previously born adult children are unaffected. Your spouse, if he chooses, would be eligible to apply for acquisition of Italian citizenship fairly soon after you reacquire your citizenship.

Given that your reacquisition only affects you, if you do decide to reacquire then I would recommend doing so in the form of a long vacation, operationally speaking. I would not recommend doing anything significant and/or irrevocable in terms of altering your lifestyle or economic circumstances. Take the opportunity to explore Italy with an open mind and, simultaneously, reestablish your legal ability to reside in Italy without conditions. (You can also bring your spouse.) If you like what you see and form a plan, go back to Canada, "close up shop," and proceed with your plan. Otherwise, go back to Canada and reconsider options. There's absolutely no requirement in this reacquisition process to do much more than visit your consulate, make a declaration, then spend a little bit of time -- a few weeks -- with your family in Italy. Call it residence if anyone asks, but functionally it can be a long vacation.

One final point. There are likely tax implications to establishing residence in Italy, including as part of the reacquisition process. Weigh those factors as well, please.


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## mthistle (Jun 2, 2014)

BBCWatcher said:


> OK, if your parents and you all naturalized together as Canadian citizens, yes, your Italian citizenship was lost, provided of course that all occurred before August 15, 1992.
> 
> You're confusing a couple issues here on reacquisition of Italian citizenship. There is a one year deadline, but that's the maximum allowed time for you to move (or "move") to Italy from the date you make your declaration of your intention to reacquire at your local Italian consulate. Once you arrive in Italy after making that declaration, there is no waiting period. Find a place to live -- a bedroom in your family's home works if that's possible -- and the commune can push the paperwork through as fast as they like. Any delay is theirs and theirs alone -- the law has no waiting period requirement once you arrive.
> 
> ...


I lost my Italian birth certificate which the consulate in Vancouver wants in order for me to start the paperwork to reacquire my citizenship ... my uncle went to the commune to get a copy and that's when they told him they could start the process when I got there, wrong information you think?


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## BBCWatcher (Dec 28, 2012)

No, your commune provided correct information. It was just incomplete. There are two ways to reacquire one's Italian citizenship: section (c) and section (d). You want section (c), which means you make a declaration of your intention to reacquire Italian citizenship at your local Italian consulate, _then_ you move to Italy (within one year of making the declaration). Once you arrive, there's no waiting period. The commune processes your paperwork (at whatever bureaucratic pace they have), and you're done.

If for some odd reason you wait more than a year after making your declaration and still haven't moved to Italy, just make another declaration at your consulate to get a new 12 month clock.

The commune may be familiar with section (d). That's the provision in the current law that helps those former Italians to reacquire even if they screw up and don't visit their local Italian consulate before they leave for Italy. (Well, OK, they probably have to visit their consulate anyway to obtain a visa in order to legally emigrate to Italy without reacquiring citizenship, e.g. an elective residency visa, but it's a safety net nonetheless.) Section (d) works, too, but it's obviously the less attractive path for you. And for really every former Italian citizen, but that's why it's (d) and comes after (c) in the law. Sometimes these things do make sense. 

You know, I did provide an exact legal citation.  You're welcome to check me on this, but the law is as I've described. If your consulate or commune isn't familiar with current Italian citizenship law -- doubtful, but you never know -- just give them the same legal citation. It's Legge n. 91 (5 febbraio 1992), Articolo 13, Paragrafo 1(c). Feel free to look it up.


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## mthistle (Jun 2, 2014)

BBCWatcher said:


> No, your commune provided correct information. It was just incomplete. There are two ways to reacquire one's Italian citizenship: section (c) and section (d). You want section (c), which means you make a declaration of your intention to reacquire Italian citizenship at your local Italian consulate, _then_ you move to Italy (within one year of making the declaration). Once you arrive, there's no waiting period. The commune processes your paperwork (at whatever bureaucratic pace they have), and you're done.
> 
> If for some odd reason you wait more than a year after making your declaration and still haven't moved to Italy, just make another declaration at your consulate to get a new 12 month clock.
> 
> ...


Thank you BBCwatcher for the information, I really appreciate it. I get lost in the mumble jumble of the law. For now I'm working hard at saving money and paying down debt, next summer I will make my declaration at the consulate and if all goes well I will be in Italy in a year's time.


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