# Queretaro



## PatrickMurtha (Feb 26, 2011)

My adventure moving to the D.F. might be at an end. The high school I signed on with turned out to be an immediate nightmare, and I am no longer working there. So now I am considering my next move career-wise. I am fairly certain that I am going to concentrate on a combination of the following:

1) Business English classes
2) Online English classes
3) Private tutoring
4) Part-time university and high school teaching

Now, there is quite a lot of all that in Mexico City, BUT, as I have discovered, the cost of living here is astronomical compared to the rest of Mexico. I worry about struggling along on the economic margins. I'm thinking it might be better to be a slightly larger fish in a slightly smaller pond.

Someone on another board mentioned Queretaro as an excellent city to consider relocating to. Very safe for Mexico, great quality of life. Business is booming, and so is Business English. Education in general is booming, because of a steady population influx, so I could almost certainly pick up some university classes and part-time high school teaching in addition to doing Business English. What I don't know is the cost of living and especially housing in comparison to the D.F. Does anyone here know much about Queretaro?


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## Longford (May 25, 2012)

Some thoughts:

- Make certain that you comply with INM regulations regarding notification of change of employers, change of address, or whatever may now be required by the regs., etc.

- What parts of the "cost of living" in the D.F. do you find "astronomical in comparison to the rest of Mexico."

- Have you been posting or cross-posting your questions at the Dave's ESL Cafe Mexico Job Board? If not, it can be a good spot to ask questions, consider the answers, ask about schools before going to work for one of them, learn about particular communities, etc.

- There are, as I'm recalling, at least one or two QRO residents who actively post to this Forum. I don't know if one or more of them is workiing/teaching English there, however.

- Without disclosing the name of the school where you worked with in the D.F., can you provide some insight into why it didn't work-out for you? 

Thanks.

Best of luck.


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## Meritorious-MasoMenos (Apr 17, 2014)

Have you ever tried using numbeo.com?

Cost Of Living Comparison Between United States And Mexico

It seems to get good reviews from expats the world over as offering at least a rough guide to cost of living comparisons. You can put it a U.S. city you know well and then compare it to Mexico City and to Queretaro. 

Site compares about 30 different price points, but in aggregate, it finds for DF:

Rent Prices in Mexico City are 45.82% lower than in New Haven, CT
Restaurant Prices in Mexico City are 46.66% lower than in New Haven, CT
Groceries Prices in Mexico City are 38.60% lower than in New Haven, CT
Not enough data to calculate difference in Local Purchasing Power

And for Queretaro:

Rent Prices in Queretaro are 71.59% lower than in New Haven, CT
Restaurant Prices in Queretaro are 52.55% lower than in New Haven, CT
Groceries Prices in Queretaro are 41.90% lower than in New Haven, CT
Not enough data to calculate difference in Local Purchasing Power


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## PatrickMurtha (Feb 26, 2011)

Longford said:


> Some thoughts:
> 
> - Make certain that you comply with INM regulations regarding notification of change of employers, change of address, or whatever may now be required by the regs., etc.
> 
> ...


Answers in random order: Yes, I'm posting at Dave's ESL Cafe and City Data, in addition to posting here.

Coming from three years living in Culiacan, I'm finding everything about Mexico City much more expensive. I'd say my groceries are 20-30% more, my rent is 40% more, taxis are outrageous, going out to comparable restaurants and bars is 20% higher, etc. Everything, really. Don't get me wrong, I LIKE the D.F., it's a delightful and stimulating city, but it calls for a higher income than I'm going to make. I MIGHT try to tough it out, but I'm by no means sure of it.

The school where I worked is family-owned - an American family, interestingly - and it turns out that the family is extremely "retrogrado" in its politics and social attitudes. I am gay, and although in a school situation I'm semi-closeted - out to colleagues, not out to students - it was still way too much for this setting. Hostile work environment, in short. I am so glad to be out of there. (Tec de Monterrey, where I worked for three years, is a modern, corporatized environment, and they don't have any hang-ups about homosexuality or other social issues at all.)


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## PatrickMurtha (Feb 26, 2011)

Meritorious-MasoMenos said:


> Have you ever tried using numbeo.com?
> 
> Cost Of Living Comparison Between United States And Mexico
> 
> ...


Those numbers look very good for Queretaro, actually, especially the rent prices. Rent is my #1 expense, as it is for most people.

I'd also be interested in knowing more about public transportation and taxis in Queretaro.


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## Meritorious-MasoMenos (Apr 17, 2014)

Patrick,

That site, if you put in a US city you more or less know, will give you a comparison of transport costs, as well as rent, among their many price points, though again, it's a rough guide. On the site, everything is in columns so easy to compare:

Transportation	[Edit]	[Edit]	
One-way Ticket (Local Transport)	1.75 $ 0.46 $ -73.79 %
Monthly Pass (Regular Price)	50.00 $ 25.68 $ -48.63 %
Taxi Start (Normal Tariff)	3.00 $ 2.94 $ -2.16 %
Taxi 1km (Normal Tariff)	1.00 $ 0.51 $ -48.63 %
Taxi 1hour Waiting (Normal Tariff)	25.50 $ 8.81 $ -65.47 %
Gasoline (1 liter)	1.00 $ 0.92 $ -8.11 %
Volkswagen Golf 1.4 90 KW Trendline (Or Equivalent New Car)	25,000.00 $ 16,144.30 $ -35.42 %

Utilities (Monthly)	[Edit]	[Edit]	
Basic (Electricity, Heating, Water, Garbage) for 85m2 Apartment	137.98 $ 38.23 $ -72.29 %
1 min. of Prepaid Mobile Tariff Local (No Discounts or Plans)	? 0.14 $ 
Internet (6 Mbps, Unlimited Data, Cable/ADSL)	45.00 $ 22.29 $ -50.46 %



Rent Per Month	[Edit]	[Edit]	
Apartment (1 bedroom) in City Centre	1,100.00 $ 281.79 $ -74.38 %
Apartment (1 bedroom) Outside of Centre	885.00 $ 225.69 $ -74.50 %
Apartment (3 bedrooms) in City Centre	1,975.00 $ 632.93 $ -67.95 %
Apartment (3 bedrooms) Outside of Centre	1,450.00 $ 394.43 $ -72.80 %


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## ValRomx (Nov 12, 2012)

While Querétaro is home to a significant business community and a number of universities, it seems to me to have a lot of sprawl for such a small (in terms of population) city - an embryonic Houston, of sorts. Because of its international business climate [and international schools for their children] a Brit-French couple looked to move there from SMA - they chose elsewhere due to what they saw as a future life spent primarily on four wheels.

If you're looking for private/corporate clients for ESL you might try google mapping where your target clients might be. I read of ESL teachers (in other parts of the world) who are dependent on public transit or taxis and who complain about the inordinate amount of time spent traveling from client to client. 

Querétaro was my first landing spot in Mexico and it just wasn't for me. It very well could be for you, but I'd strongly suggest visiting for a few days - it's a fairly short bus ride from DF.

I second M-MM's suggestion of using numbeo - it's a handy and easy-to-use tool.


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## PatrickMurtha (Feb 26, 2011)

ValRomx said:


> While Querétaro is home to a significant business community and a number of universities, it seems to me to have a lot of sprawl for such a small (in terms of population) city - an embryonic Houston, of sorts. Because of its international business climate [and international schools for their children] a Brit-French couple looked to move there from SMA - they chose elsewhere due to what they saw as a future life spent primarily on four wheels.
> 
> If you're looking for private/corporate clients for ESL you might try google mapping where your target clients might be. I read of ESL teachers (in other parts of the world) who are dependent on public transit or taxis and who complain about the inordinate amount of time spent traveling from client to client.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the additional input. I surely would visit, and in relatively short order. It appears that I could make it a day trip if I leave early enough in the morning.

The transportation issues are non-optimal, but Mexico City is every bit as bad, time-wasted-on-travel-wise. So that could be a wash. However, it looks like the rents are significantly lower than in the D.F., and that could well be decisive for me. I spend a lot of time at home with my pets, so I want the nicest place I can afford, and if that is elsewhere than Mexico City, then I'm elsewhere too.

It appears based on the numbers I'm seeing that I could find a very decent 2-bedroom in Queretaro for under 4,000 pesos / month. That would be fantastic!


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## GARYJ65 (Feb 9, 2013)

I live in Queretaro and have a construction and real estate business
Shoot away with questions, I'll try to answer them


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## PatrickMurtha (Feb 26, 2011)

GARYJ65 said:


> I live in Queretaro and have a construction and real estate business
> Shoot away with questions, I'll try to answer them


Great! If you have a sense of the price range of decent apartment rentals, that would be helpful. I could settle for a one-bedroom, but would really prefer a two-bedroom.

What neighborhoods are nice but not too pricey for expats to live in? I would like to be reasonably close to the centro and on a bus route.

The climate is pretty nice, yes?

I have seen references to the effect that although Queretaro is not a huge city for Mexico, it is not boring either, and has a fairly lively nightlife and level of cultural acyivity. True?


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## PatrickMurtha (Feb 26, 2011)

I am making excellent progress with my Queretaro plans. In the opinions of those on the board, what is the best way to land an appropriate apartment in a new city in Mexico? Would you use a realty agency, or just explore listings on your own? My Spanish is not fluent for negotiating purposes, which of course makes a difference. 

I spent much time this morning on Vivanuncios, OLX, Locanto, and Clasificados (am I missing any major listing services?). It was immediately clear that I will be able to find appropriate rentals in my price range (up to 5,000 pesos/month). In fact, it seems quite possible to find even furnished 2-bedroom apartments or small casas in the 4,000-4,500 peso range, and I would prefer a furnished apartment if possible. 

A realtor with decent English might really be able to help me with location, though. I want to be reasonably close to the Centro, and on a bus line. 

I've already had progress on employment possibilities, and I have barely begun exploring.


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

PatrickMurtha said:


> I am making excellent progress with my Queretaro plans. In the opinions of those on the board, what is the best way to land an appropriate apartment in a new city in Mexico? Would you use a realty agency, or just explore listings on your own? My Spanish is not fluent for negotiating purposes, which of course makes a difference.
> 
> I spent much time this morning on Vivanuncios, OLX, Locanto, and Clasificados (am I missing any major listing services?). It was immediately clear that I will be able to find appropriate rentals in my price range (up to 5,000 pesos/month). In fact, it seems quite possible to find even furnished 2-bedroom apartments or small casas in the 4,000-4,500 peso range, and I would prefer a furnished apartment if possible.
> 
> ...


You could also try segundamano and adoos.


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

PatrickMurtha said:


> I am making excellent progress with my Queretaro plans. In the opinions of those on the board, what is the best way to land an appropriate apartment in a new city in Mexico? Would you use a realty agency, or just explore listings on your own? My Spanish is not fluent for negotiating purposes, which of course makes a difference.
> 
> I spent much time this morning on Vivanuncios, OLX, Locanto, and Clasificados (am I missing any major listing services?). It was immediately clear that I will be able to find appropriate rentals in my price range (up to 5,000 pesos/month). In fact, it seems quite possible to find even furnished 2-bedroom apartments or small casas in the 4,000-4,500 peso range, and I would prefer a furnished apartment if possible.
> 
> ...


If a "realtor with decent English" is someone who specializes in dealing with foreigners, you are likely to end up paying more than you need to. If you can find an ordinary realtor who just happens to speak English that might not be true.

If you have the time, I would pick a neighborhood where you want to live, and look for signs on buildings, ask at the corner stores. That works for urban centers, it might not work as well if you want to live in a suburb or gated community.

If you want to live close to Centro, you might want to look a the areas just west of Centro, say along Ezequiel Montes or just east of Centro. The area between Arista and Bernardo Quintana is quiet and more residential but about a 20 minute walk from Centro. Between Arista and Centro it is closer and more urban but very pleasant. I suggest avoiding going north across Universidad or south of Zaragoza. Really, anwhere in the square bounded by Zaragoza, Avenida Tecnologia, Unversidad and Arista would be nice and a short walk from Centro. Over near Mercado de la Cruz near the eastern part of that quadrangle would be very nice and convenient for groceries.


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## PatrickMurtha (Feb 26, 2011)

Isla Verde said:


> You could also try segundamano and adoos.


Thank you! I will.


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## PatrickMurtha (Feb 26, 2011)

TundraGreen said:


> If a "realtor with decent English" is someone who specializes in dealing with foreigners, you are likely to end up paying more than you need to. If you can find an ordinary realtor who just happens to speak English that might not be true.
> 
> If you have the time, I would pick a neighborhood where you want to live, and look for signs on buildings, ask at the corner stores. That works for urban centers, it might not work as well if you want to live in a suburb or gated community.
> 
> If you want to live close to Centro, you might want to look a the areas just west of Centro, say along Ezequiel Montes or just east of Centro. The area between Arista and Bernardo Quintana is quiet and more residential but about a 20 minute walk from Centro. Between Arista and Centro it is closer and more urban but very pleasant. I suggest avoiding going north across Universidad or south of Zaragoza. Really, anwhere in the square bounded by Zaragoza, Avenida Tecnologia, Unversidad and Arista would be nice and a short walk from Centro. Over near Mercado de la Cruz near the eastern part of that quadrangle would be very nice and convenient for groceries.


Thanks very much. That is excellent, highly specific advice. I will be in Queretaro all day next Tuesday and will scout the neighborhoods you mention. (I also have a job interview that day.)


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## GARYJ65 (Feb 9, 2013)

PatrickMurtha said:


> Great! If you have a sense of the price range of decent apartment rentals, that would be helpful. I could settle for a one-bedroom, but would really prefer a two-bedroom.
> 
> What neighborhoods are nice but not too pricey for expats to live in? I would like to be reasonably close to the centro and on a bus route.
> 
> ...


I'm not into the rental area, I cannot give any advice on that
Climate is great !

As far as boredom, you can get bored anywhere if you want to, in Queretaro there are lots of things to do and lots of places to go, within the city and around


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## PatrickMurtha (Feb 26, 2011)

GARYJ65 said:


> I'm not into the rental area, I cannot give any advice on that
> Climate is great !
> 
> As far as boredom, you can get bored anywhere if you want to, in Queretaro there are lots of things to do and lots of places to go, within the city and around


Sounds promising!

I think I'll figure out the rentals. I made a good start today getting a sense of the listings, and was quite encouraged by the pricing.


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## PatrickMurtha (Feb 26, 2011)

I visited Queretaro yesterday, and was thoroughly charmed by it. I didn't see the modern, skyscraper-y section except from a distance, but of course it's there, and, I gather from my discussions yesterday, is much like such districts everywhere. I concentrated on exploring the Centro Historico, which is delightful with its blend of historic architecture, local businesses (very little chain store presence), and cultural spots (I noticed quite a few little theaters, for example). There is ample rental housing within walking distance of the Centro, and that is certainly where I will locate myself, because being able to walk or bike home after an evening out or an afternoon exploration would be sheer heaven. (Getting around the D.F. is such a slog.) There are literally dozens of appealing-looking restaurants, bars, and cantinas scattered all over the district, plus bookstores, galleries, on and on. My kind of town. 

I made excellent progress on my employment plans, too. Now I just need to line up some apartments to look at, and make one or two return trips to pin down my housing. Then I can arrange my move, and will be in Queretaro no later than the last week in December (perhaps sooner, perhaps pre-Christmas), ready to start work on a number of fronts in the new year. 

Having a car would be useful in getting around the wider environs of Queretaro, and that is something I will consider for the future if I can manage it. I will definitely invest in a bicycle right away. The intermediate position between a bike and a car would of course be a scooter or motorcycle, and I'm open to that (although it has been a while since I have ridden either, but it would be fun to get back up to speed). Question for the board: Do any of you have experience with using a scooter or motorcycle to get around Mexican cities other than the D.F. (which has its own exaggerated level of driving craziness)? Have your experiences been positive? 

I want to thank everyone here. Message boards have been enormously helpful to me on this occasion in plotting out my future course.


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## Longford (May 25, 2012)

PatrickMurtha said:


> Then I can arrange my move, and will be in Queretaro no later than the last week in December (perhaps sooner, perhaps pre-Christmas), ready to start work on a number of fronts in the new year.


From what I've witnessed and experienced, schools of all sorts (including corporate English classes) tend to be out of session from before Xmas until at least January 5th (2015).


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

PatrickMurtha said:


> I visited Queretaro yesterday, and was thoroughly charmed by it. I didn't see the modern, skyscraper-y section except from a distance, but of course it's there, and, I gather from my discussions yesterday, is much like such districts everywhere. I concentrated on exploring the Centro Historico, which is delightful with its blend of historic architecture, local businesses (very little chain store presence), and cultural spots (I noticed quite a few little theaters, for example). There is ample rental housing within walking distance of the Centro, and that is certainly where I will locate myself, because being able to walk or bike home after an evening out or an afternoon exploration would be sheer heaven. (Getting around the D.F. is such a slog.) There are literally dozens of appealing-looking restaurants, bars, and cantinas scattered all over the district, plus bookstores, galleries, on and on. My kind of town.
> 
> I made excellent progress on my employment plans, too. Now I just need to line up some apartments to look at, and make one or two return trips to pin down my housing. Then I can arrange my move, and will be in Queretaro no later than the last week in December (perhaps sooner, perhaps pre-Christmas), ready to start work on a number of fronts in the new year.
> 
> ...


Another option to consider between a bike and a car is to skip the car and supplement the bicycle with the bus system for when you want to go a little further.


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## Meritorious-MasoMenos (Apr 17, 2014)

Please let us know how the apartment hunting goes, especially what options you see, not only the one you take. (I can get down on D.F. too).


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## PatrickMurtha (Feb 26, 2011)

Longford said:


> From what I've witnessed and experienced, schools of all sorts (including corporate English classes) tend to be out of session from before Xmas until at least January 5th (2015).


Oh, definitely, I'd just be moving in earlier to settle in.


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## sunnyvmx (Mar 14, 2010)

I love my scooter and have no use for a car. I simply stay over to the right and out of everyone's way, follow the traffic laws and move with confidence or they will run over you.
My parrot rides the scooter and my pup loves it. Parking is a cinch.


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## GARYJ65 (Feb 9, 2013)

PatrickMurtha said:


> I visited Queretaro yesterday, and was thoroughly charmed by it. I didn't see the modern, skyscraper-y section except from a distance, but of course it's there, and, I gather from my discussions yesterday, is much like such districts everywhere. I concentrated on exploring the Centro Historico, which is delightful with its blend of historic architecture, local businesses (very little chain store presence), and cultural spots (I noticed quite a few little theaters, for example). There is ample rental housing within walking distance of the Centro, and that is certainly where I will locate myself, because being able to walk or bike home after an evening out or an afternoon exploration would be sheer heaven. (Getting around the D.F. is such a slog.) There are literally dozens of appealing-looking restaurants, bars, and cantinas scattered all over the district, plus bookstores, galleries, on and on. My kind of town.
> 
> I made excellent progress on my employment plans, too. Now I just need to line up some apartments to look at, and make one or two return trips to pin down my housing. Then I can arrange my move, and will be in Queretaro no later than the last week in December (perhaps sooner, perhaps pre-Christmas), ready to start work on a number of fronts in the new year.
> 
> ...


Patrick I drive my scooter most of the time, I just love it, downside would be when it rains and at night it might be more dangerous, other than that, it's a blast!
In DF , it gets much more difficult, but it's doable


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## PatrickMurtha (Feb 26, 2011)

GARYJ65 said:


> Patrick I drive my scooter most of the time, I just love it, downside would be when it rains and at night it might be more dangerous, other than that, it's a blast!
> In DF , it gets much more difficult, but it's doable


Very helpful to know!


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