# Is this a reasonable offer?



## Katemac11 (Nov 29, 2012)

I am graduating with my Master's in Library Science in May and I have received a tentative offer from an international school in Spain to work in their library. The salary would be 22,000 euro before taxes. 
Problem is...I have no idea if that's high, reasonable, absurdly low...I would appreciate some advice here! Keeping in mind that I'm a recent graduate and not expecting to be making the big bucks...basically, could I survive on that?
After that, I'm sure I will have a lot more questions about taking a job in Spain, but that's the most basic one for now.


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## Navas (Sep 2, 2012)

Sounds like very reasonable salary to me. Where in Spain? Some places will be more expensive to live in than others.


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## Katemac11 (Nov 29, 2012)

Thanks, Navas. It's in Madrid, so I'm assuming it's more expensive, like most major cities.


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

Katemac11 said:


> I am graduating with my Master's in Library Science in May and I have received a tentative offer from an international school in Spain to work in their library. The salary would be 22,000 euro before taxes.
> Problem is...I have no idea if that's high, reasonable, absurdly low...I would appreciate some advice here! Keeping in mind that I'm a recent graduate and not expecting to be making the big bucks...basically, could I survive on that?
> After that, I'm sure I will have a lot more questions about taking a job in Spain, but that's the most basic one for now.


It depends where you are - centre of Barcelona, Madrid or Valencia the rent is high.

Would that be a proper employment contract (with them paying SS etc.)?


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## Katemac11 (Nov 29, 2012)

snikpoh said:


> It depends where you are - centre of Barcelona, Madrid or Valencia the rent is high.
> 
> Would that be a proper employment contract (with them paying SS etc.)?


I'm not sure...I will have to ask this. I just had a brief phone call with them to see if I was interested, and we're going to have a more in-depth interview via skype in the near future to settle details.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Katemac11 said:


> I am graduating with my Master's in Library Science in May and I have received a tentative offer from an international school in Spain to work in their library. The salary would be 22,000 euro before taxes.
> Problem is...I have no idea if that's high, reasonable, absurdly low...I would appreciate some advice here! Keeping in mind that I'm a recent graduate and not expecting to be making the big bucks...basically, could I survive on that?
> After that, I'm sure I will have a lot more questions about taking a job in Spain, but that's the most basic one for now.


Can I just ask; did you get in touch with them, or did they get in touch with you?
Do you know anything about how you would get a visa because as an American (assuming your flags are right) you are only usually allowed to work here legally if the company can prove that no one else European can do the job.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Can I just ask; did you get in touch with them, or did they get in touch with you?
> *Do you know anything about how you would get a visa because as an American (assuming your flags are right) you are only usually allowed to work here legally if the company can prove that no one else European can do the job*.



very good point - something else for Katemac11 to discuss during the skype interview I guess


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## jp1 (Jun 11, 2011)

Ummm... with 19 million people unemployed in the Eurozone, they might be able to find a native to do the job.

For what it's worth the average UK graduate starting salary is in the region £20~£25k. So a salary of 22k Euros is in my opinion very good considering Spain has 5 million unemployed.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

22k sounds like a gross overpayment to me!


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

Katemac11 said:


> I am graduating with my Master's in Library Science in May and I have received a tentative offer from an international school in Spain to work in their library. The salary would be 22,000 euro before taxes.
> Problem is...I have no idea if that's high, reasonable, absurdly low...I would appreciate some advice here! Keeping in mind that I'm a recent graduate and not expecting to be making the big bucks...basically, could I survive on that?
> After that, I'm sure I will have a lot more questions about taking a job in Spain, but that's the most basic one for now.



Two questions.

Did the offer come direct from the school?

and

What is "Library Science". I assume its more than sticking books back on shelves


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## bob_bob (Jan 5, 2011)

baldilocks said:


> 22k sounds like a gross overpayment to me!


Why?


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

bob_bob said:


> Why?


€22k for a first job, no experience, untried, untested probably to be propped up and supported by others who have been doing the work in lower positions without proper recognition and promotion. The sort of situation that in UK has destroyed the incentive to start from the bottom, fully learn the job on the way up the ladder so that when they get to the top and have to make decisions that affect the lives and futures of others and even of the company/organisation, they are properly equipped to do so. 

In your field bob-bob how would/do you feel about management trainees jumping straight in at ward sister/manager (whatever they call them now) with no or very little experience?


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## Katemac11 (Nov 29, 2012)

1. They told me they would handle the visa paperwork. I probably should have mentioned that this job would be for a one year term, not sure if that makes it easier to get a visa. 
2. The library director there is a colleague and good friend of one of my professors here. They work together in IFLA (the international library association) and they asked her for students who would be interested in an international work experience. That is how we got in touch. This is an international business school, and they want people from all over the world.
3. I understand the frustration about an American taking a job when there are so many unemployed people. But I wouldn't let it stop me from taking a great opportunity. And this is like an apprenticeship or traineeship, even though I'm getting paid. So no one has to be managed under the inexperienced American. 
4. Which leads me to what library science is...no, I'm not just going over to Spain to shelve books!  First of all, it's a Master's degree, which most people don't expect. though it IS more of a professional program than academic...we learn all the specialized skills and knowledge required of a library job. In an academic library like this one, that involves cataloging and organizing items (both print and "born digital"), answering reference questions and helping people with research, collection development and negotiating contracts for serials and online resources, instructing "information literacy" skills like searching databases, IT related to the library computer system, plus outreach and marketing. 

Sorry for the tl;dr...you know how people get when they're talking about their field...hope that helps answer your questions.


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

baldilocks said:


> €22k for a first job, no experience, untried, untested probably to be propped up and supported by others who have been doing the work in lower positions without proper recognition and promotion. The sort of situation that in UK has destroyed the incentive to start from the bottom, fully learn the job on the way up the ladder so that when they get to the top and have to make decisions that affect the lives and futures of others and even of the company/organisation, they are properly equipped to do so.
> 
> In your field bob-bob how would/do you feel about management trainees jumping straight in at ward sister/manager (whatever they call them now) with no or very little experience?


I'm glad you're not my boss!

Based on assumptions of 25% tax and social security deductions and a 40 hr working week (optimistic in Spain to work only 40 hrs), that wage equates to about 8.20€ net per hour.... both my cleaner and my babysitter earn more than that!

Yes, there are many graduates earning less than that, but thats practically exploitation.

:whip:


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

baldilocks said:


> In your field bob-bob how would/do you feel about management trainees jumping straight in at ward sister/manager (whatever they call them now) with no or very little experience?


Happens all the time in the Police Force in the UK, my ex policeman neighbour tells me. Fast Track, people with no experience telling the rank and file how to do things


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## jp1 (Jun 11, 2011)

Katemac11 said:


> 3. I understand the frustration about an American taking a job when there are so many unemployed people. But I wouldn't let it stop me from taking a great opportunity. And this is like an apprenticeship or traineeship, even though I'm getting paid. So no one has to be managed under the inexperienced American.


I don't think anyone here is frustrated, most posters here believe in free enterprise, free market and employing the best person for the job. That unfortunately is not a widely held belief in Spanish culture, though. But you have been offered the job so Spanish culture is irrelevant anyway.

Answering your original question in more detail, yes 22k is a good offer. As I said that is comparable with graduates in the UK. The average UK salary is about £25~26k. If you worked in Walmart full time in the UK as a basic shelf stacker, checkout operator you would earn around £13k a year. All these figures are before tax, of which we pay a lot more of here. Spanish salaries are a little less than those of the UK.

Professional wages in Europe are less than equivalent roles in the US. That is why you might think it seems low.

As a single person in Madrid on 22k Euros you can live in an apartment on your own, afford a good social life, and eat well.

You are being offered a good salary, in fact quite generous when it is also affording you a great work experience as well.

Good luck, go for it.


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## brocher (Mar 21, 2011)

Talk of how much a young, highly educated graduate should earn in comparison to some old, inflexible, out of touch, lazy 50yr old git is totally unhelpful to the OP!!!

Food, accommodation, etc cost the same no matter how old you are and it is more important for the OP to know whether she can afford to live on the salary offered.

I think after tax and S.S. payments you will be left with little over 1000euros/ monthe to live on. While I know many Spanish live on much less right now, that is of no consideration to you as a single person who has complete responsibility for paying the bills.

I don't know Madrid at all, so maybe someone can correct me if I'm wrong but assuming you live in the city centre you may have to pay 500 - 600euros/ month for an extremely tiny flat/studio. In addition food. utility bills, transport (bus) would take most of the rest of your monthly salary. You would have nothing/ very little left for flights. entertainment, etc. You probably could not afford to run a car and it would be a lot easier financially, if you would be happy to flat share. Flat sharing might help you make fiends, too.

I'm no expert but I don't think 22000e before tax is a particularly good offer compared to teachers in International schools in Spain, many of whom are also quite young. It is however, a very good offer if you feel it would be a good learning experience careerwise, with the big bonus of experiencing living in Europe if that appeals to you! 

In your position I’d probably jump at the offer, have a “gap year” while earning some money and improving your future career prospects!


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

brocher said:


> Talk of how much a young, highly educated graduate should earn in comparison to some old, inflexible, out of touch, lazy 50yr old git is totally unhelpful to the OP!!!


Not sure who the 50yr old git is, but for what it's worth 22,000 euros is a good salary for a recent graduate. Spaniards who are graduates who speak 2 or 3 languages are working for as low as 900€ and many with a max of 1500 a week, and those are the ones who've got jobs.
Madrid is a city so you've got rents at all the prices you want. If you want cheap you go to Vallecas and share, you want up market you go to Madrid de Las Austrias and rent a loft...
My only concerns were the visa (OP thinks it's taken care of) and if the job offer really was valid (OP seems sure of that too)


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## bob_bob (Jan 5, 2011)

baldilocks said:


> €22k for a first job, no experience, untried, untested probably to be propped up and supported by others who have been doing the work in lower positions without proper recognition and promotion. The sort of situation that in UK has destroyed the incentive to start from the bottom, fully learn the job on the way up the ladder so that when they get to the top and have to make decisions that affect the lives and futures of others and even of the company/organisation, they are properly equipped to do so.
> 
> In your field bob-bob how would/do you feel about management trainees jumping straight in at ward sister/manager (whatever they call them now) with no or very little experience?


Whose to say that with more experience his or her pay will not go up from €22k, for all you and I know €22k is the baseline starting salary and only about £18k a year 

Nursing is structured into 'bands, a general nurse start off on about £25K with shift allowances) moving up the band over time to earn @ £33k, move up the ladder to Charge nurse and your on @£33 +, Ward manager @£33k to over £40k if your allowed shift work and people like my wife (Nurse Consultant) earn @£50k going up over time. Its a well structured system, no 'jumping the gun' so your analogy is utter tosh.


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## gus-lopez (Jan 4, 2010)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Not sure who the 50yr old git is, but for what it's worth 22,000 euros is a good salary for a recent graduate. Spaniards who are graduates who speak 2 or 3 languages are working for as low as 900€ and many with a max of 1500 a week, and those are the ones who've got jobs.
> Madrid is a city so you've got rents at all the prices you want. If you want cheap you go to Vallecas and share, you want up market you go to Madrid de Las Austrias and rent a loft...
> My only concerns were the visa (OP thinks it's taken care of) and if the job offer really was valid (OP seems sure of that too)


I assume you mean " per month " ?


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

gus-lopez said:


> I assume you mean " per month " ?


Yes!
I'm always doing that


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## brocher (Mar 21, 2011)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Not sure who the 50yr old git is, but for what it's worth 22,000 euros is a good salary for a recent graduate. Spaniards who are graduates who speak 2 or 3 languages are working for as low as 900€ and many with a max of 1500 a week, and those are the ones who've got jobs.
> Madrid is a city so you've got rents at all the prices you want. If you want cheap you go to Vallecas and share, you want up market you go to Madrid de Las Austrias and rent a loft...
> My only concerns were the visa (OP thinks it's taken care of) and if the job offer really was valid (OP seems sure of that too)


Well it's not you, PW, merely a referance to earlier unhelpful posts implying that just because someone is older, they are worthy of a better salary! I just wanted to drag the thread away from that unhelpful tangent and get back in track so the OP may receive some useful info as to how far her money would stretch - which is pretty much what she asked in her first post.


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