# Motorhome before buying house– Cart & Horse problems.



## shelldweller (Oct 15, 2017)

Suggestions required please. I've studied this forum & internet carefully without finding any obvious solutions.

I would like to come from Australia to travel in Spain for 3-6 months in a 2nd hand motorhome in order to find the right place to live – buy or very long term rent. But I run into Catch 22 no matter how I work out plans.
It doesn't look possible unless I cheat the rules, completely re-arrange my plans, or possibly vary ideas to suit suggestions from the forum.

E.G. Looks like I can't buy a used vehicle in Spain without a local address. And I also need insurance for it, also probably needing an address. 
Any other way of doing this?
OR if I buy a used LHD motorhome from Germany, (possibly easier/cheaper/better choice than UK or Spain) I apparently have to officially “import” it within a month if I'm intending to stay. Which apparently needs an address, padron etc.

I'm happy to set up a local bank account and NIE, though these might be transferred/altered when I finally find the right area, as I'm retired, with enough cash I think to fulfil requirements, and I think I can work out the Healthcare side of things, 
-BUT I don't really want to spend cash on an address before I buy/import a motorhome, when the idea of buying a motorhome is to help me find the right address to live at.

Are there any local hire/buy motorhome dealers who can fix up insurance/road service details for this scenario?
Long term hire is too expensive.
Is there another way? 

OR Would it be possible to drive around for 3 or 6 months and 'import' or matriculate the vehicle in the 7th month after I've finalised a house purchase? I could possibly pop back over the border to France or Portugal if need be.
I have both Australian & British Citizenship, and could get Irish too, if it was useful.
I'm retired with part UK & part Australian pensions.
I'll be flying in next year direct from Australia with all my gear, but could possibly hang out in the UK for a month to use the address of a close relative in the UK before going to Europe/Spain.

Are there any suggestions to work around things fairly legally till I get permanently settled? 
How flexible are the time limits for vehicle importing?
Eg 6 months ownership to avoid import tax, Matriculation 1 Month after padron?

N.B. Once settled with a Spanish base, I'd probably be using the motorhome in Spain and around Europe regularly for a few years, but not in the UK.

Any thoughts gratefully received.
Cheers

Also - Any guesstimates on total legalising/registration costs for say a 10 year old 30K euro LHD vehicle from another EU country?


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## Juan C (Sep 4, 2017)

If you come to Spain INTENDING to live here, then you are required to register on the EU Citizen’s Register immediately. The 3 months / 183 day rules do not apply.

Why not just come to Spain and register on the EU Citizen’s Register? (If you change your mind after a few months you can cancel it). 
To register you need 
1 full medical cover, it would appear you may qualify for an S1 from DWP in UK (‘free’ health care paid for by DWP) if not then you would to take out private cover. 
2 A single person needs an income of at least 366.90€ p.m. or savings of 5,136.60. 
3 Valid EU passport and a copy. 

4 Application form and payment slip

5 An address, but can be even a hostal.

That is all

To buy a vehicle you not have to be a property owner, so a rental address may do to register the vehicle.

You can also open a bank account without being an owner. My son lives in K and has my address in Spain on his bank account.

It is Sunday, otherwise I would have called a car dealer and an insurance company to ask your questions. I suggest you Google and d that, so you know for sure from ‘the horse’s mouth’


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## Rabbitcat (Aug 31, 2014)

Well as I am far too important to bother reading all of your post I just scanned through your title and I can see two big mistakes you are going to make

Firstly the cost and hassle of bringing a cart all the way from Oz to Spain is plain daft and secondly you will run into horrendous problems trying to import a horse as both quarantine and import regulations are extremely complicated.


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

Juan C said:


> If you come to Spain INTENDING to live here, then you are required to register on the EU Citizen’s Register immediately. The 3 months / 183 day rules do not apply.
> 
> Why not just come to Spain and register on the EU Citizen’s Register? (If you change your mind after a few months you can cancel it).
> To register you need
> ...




Just one major problem with your post as I see it - they say they are from Australia!

So they won't have an S1, nor an EU passport.


You just need an address where the vehicle can be registered to and taxed - this need not be a rental address. For example, we use our PO box address.


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

snikpoh said:


> Just one major problem with your post as I see it - they say they are from Australia!
> 
> So they won't have an S1, nor an EU passport.
> 
> ...


The OP's post says they are both Australian and British citizens, and would be able to obtain Irish citizenship as well, if necessary. So they could have EU passports. They also have part Australian/part UK pensions, not sure if that would entitle them to an S1 form or not.


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## Pazcat (Mar 24, 2010)

You could maybe rent one?

australia, austria, belgium, botswana, canada, croatia, denmark, england, france, finland, germany, hungary, iceland, ireland italy, mozambique, namibia, netherlands, new zealand, norway, portugal, scotland, south africa, spain, sweden. uk, usa motor


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## Gran Erry-Bredd (Nov 1, 2016)

Good to see you back on form Rabbitcat. :wave:


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## shelldweller (Oct 15, 2017)

Thank you Juan C for your prompt informational answer, and Snikpoh.
However, I am a bit confused re immediate EU citizens register. Previously I have read of NIE, Padron, and Residencia.
Pardon my ignorance but which are you referring to? 
I have previously noted comments on the forum that Padron and Residencia need an address, using either escritura or 6 month rental contract. I won't have either of these for some months. Is this correct?

I probably will get NIE & bank account on arrival, and as previously stated, I can provide EU passport, Bank savings and enough income, plus SI or private Health cover whenever required, that's points 1, 2, 3, & 4 covered.
If a hostal or short term rental address will suffice for Residencia or Padron, no problem, but this is not what I have read elsewhere. Please confirm.
If NIE and a hostal address are all that's needed to buy a Spanish vehicle & get insurance, great, but please confirm.
Many thanks in advance!

None of these, however work on saving import duty If I have to find and own a suitable vehicle elsewhere in Europe for more than 6 months before deciding on permanent residence in Spain, which was the other option also queried in my original post.
I expect the import duties could be 5000 or more euros on a decent motorhome?, with possibly another 1000 for Spanish registration? I've read that if owned for 6 months previously and imported within a month of residential registration I could avoid a lot of this.
(Renting the right vehicle would cost at least 2000 per month in low season, and I'd still need to buy a vehicle at the end of the hire period.) 
Still trying to work out what regulations to follow in what order, to remain legal but not overspend.
Any advice out there for this scenario?


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## VFR (Dec 23, 2009)

You are coming for 6 months max ?
Just come as a tourist then !


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## Juan C (Sep 4, 2017)

Yours is a long ¡question’ !!! But here goes.


If an EU national comes to Spain and stays 3 months PERMANENTLY, or if they come for shorter periods but stay a total of 183 days in a year, OR they come to Spain to make it their home, they are required to register on the EU as resident in Spain. So moving to Spain means immediate registration is required. Not owning a property, not renting etc. is not relevant to EU Citizen Registration. it is the physical presence in Spain.

When one becomes resident they automatically are tax resident with liability to pay income tax, and some other taxes, as defined by any double taxation agreement between Spain and their county of nationality, on their worldwide income and assets.

Registering on the EU Citizen’s Register requires a valid EU passport, sufficient income or savings and full medical cover.

Padron means registering as a resident in the town. So one would need ‘a place to lay their head.’

If one becomes resident before they obtain an NIE then they cannot apply just for NIE as they are required register on the EU Citizen Reg. They are then issued with the tax identification number (NIE).

( quote If a hostal or short term rental address will suffice for Residencia or Padron, no problem, but this is not what I have read elsewhere. ) 

To register on the EU Citizen Register does not require a permanent address. Padron, as I show above does,

( quote If NIE and a hostal address are all that's needed to buy a Spanish vehicle & get insurance, great) I believe that is correct


Importing one's goods and chattels from another RU country, at the time of EU Registration, I believe is tax free, but I seem to recall that one needs to have owned a motor vehicle in another EU country for six months to qualify. No doubt someone will clarify that for ‘us’.

I believe in all cases registration tax must be paid in Spain when registering a vehicle here. 

NB A resident is not allowed to drive a non-Spanish registered vehicle, apart from a dispensation of a few months after moving here.


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## gus-lopez (Jan 4, 2010)

There are companies in the Netherlands who sell /register/insure motorhomes for foreign visitors & will also "buy back" at the end if you want. here are 3 different ones.

motorhomes for sale - BW Campers - BW Campers

https://www.happy-camper.eu/en/buy-and-buy-back-motorhomes.php

Vehicles


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## shelldweller (Oct 15, 2017)

Very useful links. Thanks gus-lopez. 
I was aware of happy campers but not the others.
It would be great to find any company like this in Spain!
Cheers, 
Shelldweller


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## ccm47 (Oct 15, 2013)

This last week I have spent time touring the Northern coast of Spain in our own motorhome. Whilst on our tour we kept seeing the same vehicles because there are a number of Australian surfing fans who are doing a one way hire from France (they went to the world championships in Hossegor last week-end) and are slowly making their way down to another championship in Lisbon, Portugal where they will drop off their rented motorhomes, before flying on.
The campers they are using are modern and well equipped but registered in Sweden, Czechoslovakia or the Netherlands. Do not limit your options by insisting that the company is fully registered in Spainm you could get a good deal for renting a vehicle from a company based elsewhere.
3 points to be aware of:
1, lots of towns have introduced height barriers or length restrictions in open air car parks. Daytime parking can be difficult.
2. Camping in all its forms on the beach is forbidden now in some regions with significant fines.
3,Campsite fees tend to be 18 to 30 euros a night out of season, but Spain does not have the same quantity as elsewhere in Europe,


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## chrisnation (Mar 2, 2009)

_lots of towns have introduced height barriers or length restrictions in open air car parks. Daytime parking can be difficult.
2. Camping in all its forms on the beach is forbidden now in some regions with significant fines.
3,Campsite fees tend to be 18 to 30 euros a night out of season, but Spain does not have the same quantity as elsewhere in Europe, _

An app you most definitely need in your phone is '*Campercontact*' This is a Dutch database [loads onto your phone and so usable off-line or go on line on your PC) of thousands of camper van sites all over Europe, from all-singing, all-dancing sites to the likes of three I used last week on my trip UK - Spain viz: 

Canterbury (UK) city council's 'aire' just south of the city, in the_ park and ride_ car park, with a parking section just for campers, GBP4 night and only 20 mins from Dover docks. Pub 300m ... Old Speckled Hen on draught.

A free 'aire' at Saran, on the north edge of Orleans, France, in a pleasant village.

A free 'aire' in San Sebastian, in a huge car park out back of a concert hall. 

These are all just overnight stops. No facilities other than waste tank disposal. But for en-route journeys, ideal.

Another extremely valuable source of where to stay goes by the rather twee name of *Motorhome Fun.* Never mind the name, get the low-down. The people on this site have been everywhere, lots of times. Some are even 'live-aboard'. Good tech threads, too.


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## shelldweller (Oct 15, 2017)

Many thanks Chrisnation.
All good info!


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