# Canuck Input on Departing Great White North



## MikeyBoy (Jan 13, 2013)

Looking for some input form fellow Canucks on what they needed to do prior or just after leaving Canada for Dubai. 
My queries are:
Did you cancel your credit cards such as AMEX (which has no bank affiliation), I realize i will close our family account etc and related Visa cards
What about your OHIP or provincial health cards? I'm hoping when we return during summer school break to be able to visit my family doctor etc
Drivers License? Mine doesn't expire for a few years so I was not going to worry about it....

any other tidbits of wisdom and experiences always welcome and appreciated

thanks


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## Scatterling (Apr 25, 2010)

MikeyBoy said:


> Looking for some input form fellow Canucks on what they needed to do prior or just after leaving Canada for Dubai.
> My queries are:
> Did you cancel your credit cards such as AMEX (which has no bank affiliation), I realize i will close our family account etc and related Visa cards
> What about your OHIP or provincial health cards? I'm hoping when we return during summer school break to be able to visit my family doctor etc
> ...


No reason to cancel your Amex card, or your visa cards for that matter. I assume you will be returning to Canada at some point so just hang on to them and avoid the hassle of getting new ones. By family account, do you mean bank account? No reason to close that either

Not sure about OHIP. I didn't cancel mine or tell them I was living out of the country so it's good when I go back. I would recommend you don't cancel them as it will be a big hassle when you return, i.e you will have to re-register with your doctor and they may not accept you as a patient once you have left. 

Re driver's license, just renew it when it expires - no need to do anything else with it.

Good luck with the move


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## MikeyBoy (Jan 13, 2013)

Scatterling said:


> No reason to cancel your Amex card, or your visa cards for that matter. I assume you will be returning to Canada at some point so just hang on to them and avoid the hassle of getting new ones. By family account, do you mean bank account? No reason to close that either
> 
> Not sure about OHIP. I didn't cancel mine or tell them I was living out of the country so it's good when I go back. I would recommend you don't cancel them as it will be a big hassle when you return, i.e you will have to re-register with your doctor and they may not accept you as a patient once you have left.
> 
> ...


Thanks...the devil is in the details so its now the little things I'm trying to be sure to take care of......


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## w_man (Apr 16, 2010)

Depends ... Are you going to be declaring yourself as non-resident and not paying taxes?

If so .. then you need to cut as many ties to Canada as possible. This could include:
1. Cancelling your drivers lciense
2. Cancelling all your CCs
3. Closing all bank accounts
4. Selling your car
5. Etc..

There are a good 10-15 specific points which are recommended and you are to try and do as many as possible. 

Having said that, you don't HAVE to cancel your drivers license, bank accounts and CCs but all of these things will be considered IF you are audited when you return back to Canada one day. 

* I have a bank account - I made sure I went to the bank and told them that I am leaving the country and to update my address on the account to be the UAE address. I can justify this bank account because my mortgage is taken out of this account. 

* I also have a property in Canada which is now considered to be an investment property and is rented out through a property management company (not through my family or friends). I have to pay 25% tax on any income from this property on a monthly basis - my property management company manages all of this for me.

* I was also told that I could maintain a CC (this keeps your credit history active) but try not to use it often (or at all). 

* I also have a driver license because it wasn't going to expire for a few years - it is NOT recommended to renew it if you are still declaring to be non-resident. Also, do not leave a car under your name in Canada - or anything in storage under your name for that matter. I always take an international license with me when visiting Canada.

* It is recommended to cancel your health care but usually not considered a big deal if it's not cancelled. But do NOT use your healthcare to visit a doctor when visiting Canada - you will be using government services which is designed for tax payers and you are non-resident who is not paying taxes. I have a global health care plan with my employer so if I need to see a doctor when I visit Canada, I pay for the visit and get reimbursed by my insurance provider. 

If you have assets in Canada which you'd like to maintain, it's best to discuss this with an accountant who has experience in non-resident taxes and liabilities - my company offered me the services of PwC. At the end, you want to break as many ties to the country as possible with no indication that you are coming back. Unfortunately this is a grey area with CRA and when/if they audit you, it's up to you to prove that you had no dependencies on Canada while a non-resident.

If you are not declaring to be a non-resident and are paying taxes on your income then non of the above matters - do what you want and you can pretty much use all the services Canada has to offer.

Good luck and hope to see you in the sand pit.


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## Elphaba (Jan 24, 2008)

w_man is right. The Canadain system for expats is about as clear as mud and you need to be very careful if you want to be considered non-resident and thus not liable to Canadian tax on overseas earnings.

I wrote this some time ago, but it is still valid

General guidance for Canadian expats | Financialuae's Blog


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## MikeyBoy (Jan 13, 2013)

w_man said:


> Depends ... Are you going to be declaring yourself as non-resident and not paying taxes?
> 
> If so .. then you need to cut as many ties to Canada as possible. This could include:
> 1. Cancelling your drivers lciense
> ...


Great information and this is how I understand it as well. I'm selling my home, moving the majority of household items and our car. The CRA will view me as non resident. I will keep a single CC, non bank affiliated and pay via online with my UAE account. The tip about my bank account and updating address to UAE is a good one,


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## MikeyBoy (Jan 13, 2013)

w_man said:


> Depends ... Are you going to be declaring yourself as non-resident and not paying taxes?
> 
> If so .. then you need to cut as many ties to Canada as possible. This could include:
> 1. Cancelling your drivers lciense
> ...



Do I need to pay off my car loan or can I keep a basic bank acct to handle the payments while away, it's a 4 years tint with summer back in Canada?


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## Elphaba (Jan 24, 2008)

MikeyBoy said:


> Do I need to pay off my car loan or can I keep a basic bank acct to handle the payments while away, it's a 4 years tint with summer back in Canada?


It is generally recommended that you break all ties. Keeping a bank account and a loan is a definite tie.


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## Scatterling (Apr 25, 2010)

w_man said:


> Depends ... Are you going to be declaring yourself as non-resident and not paying taxes?
> 
> If so .. then you need to cut as many ties to Canada as possible. This could include:
> 1. Cancelling your drivers lciense
> ...


I was given the opposite advice re a driving license. Because the UAE don't have a reciprocal agreement with Canada, if the OP's license expires (for more than 3 years I think) he will have to take a driving test to get a new license, therefore renewing it is seen as necessary and not considered a tie to Canada


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## Scatterling (Apr 25, 2010)

Elphaba said:


> It is generally recommended that you break all ties. Keeping a bank account and a loan is a definite tie.


I must have been given some bad advice (from PWC who did the taxes as well) and been very lucky. I have repatriated 3 times (twice after 3+ years and a 5 year stint away). I didn't change a single thing, i.e., kept bank accounts, driving licenses, loans, etc and even though I visited Canada for a few months at a time have never been liable for Canadian taxes. 

Maybe Revenue Canada are lying in wait for me......

ETA I didn't change my address on anything either


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## Elphaba (Jan 24, 2008)

Scatterling said:


> I must have been given some bad advice (from PWC who did the taxes as well) and been very lucky. I have repatriated 3 times (twice after 3+ years and a 5 year stint away). I didn't change a single thing, i.e., kept bank accounts, driving licenses, loans, etc and even though I visited Canada for a few months at a time have never been liable for Canadian taxes.
> 
> Maybe Revenue Canada are lying in wait for me......
> 
> ETA I didn't change my address on anything either


I would say that you have been lucky


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## Scatterling (Apr 25, 2010)

Elphaba said:


> I would say that you have been lucky


Sshhhh don't tell anyone


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## w_man (Apr 16, 2010)

MikeyBoy said:


> Do I need to pay off my car loan or can I keep a basic bank acct to handle the payments while away, it's a 4 years tint with summer back in Canada?


Agreed with Elphaba. Both bank accounts and loans are considered to be a tie. Specially if the loan is a car loan as normally you can't sell the car without paying off the loan - I understand you're shipping the car here but normally the bank doesn't allow the car to be shipping out of the country as normal car loans are tied to the car (there's a lean on the car). If anything, I would suggest to pay it off to be safe or convert the car loan to a personal loan. I would imagine CRA doesn't want you to run away from your responsibilities so paying off a personal loan *should* be OK?!?

As far as the license situation is considered - I was told by PwC that this is certainly a tie. As far as having to give the test again to obtain your license upon your return, that's a small sacrifice to pay for not paying any taxes . 

At the end of the day, I was told that you have to leave Canada like you have no intentions of coming back. Any ties you have with Canada must have a valid reason eg: having bank accounts to maintain mortgage or investments. Anything else COULD be considered a tie and held against you. 

With CRA - who knows ... I might get audited even though I have tried to do everything right - hope not .. fingers crossed!!


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## Scatterling (Apr 25, 2010)

w_man said:


> Agreed with Elphaba. Both bank accounts and loans are considered to be a tie. Specially if the loan is a car loan as normally you can't sell the car without paying off the loan - I understand you're shipping the car here but normally the bank doesn't allow the car to be shipping out of the country as normal car loans are tied to the car (there's a lean on the car). If anything, I would suggest to pay it off to be safe or convert the car loan to a personal loan. I would imagine CRA doesn't want you to run away from your responsibilities so paying off a personal loan *should* be OK?!?
> 
> As far as the license situation is considered - I was told by PwC that this is certainly a tie. *As far as having to give the test again to obtain your license upon your return, that's a small sacrifice to pay for not paying any taxes .
> *
> ...


I guess so, but when I returned in 2002 from a stint overseas (from a country that has no reciprocal agreement) because my license had expired I had to wait nearly 6 months to do a test (MTO were on strike) and I couldn't drive until I did that. WTF


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## w_man (Apr 16, 2010)

Scatterling said:


> (MTO were on strike)


There's your problem ... Move to Alberta and all will be fine


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## Scatterling (Apr 25, 2010)

w_man said:


> There's your problem ... Move to Alberta and all will be fine


Well, I grew up in Alberta & would love to be back there someday! That's the plan, anyway


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## MikeyBoy (Jan 13, 2013)

Thanks for the insight, greatly appreciated... Now can you shed some light on the ins and outs of sponsoring my wife and 2 daughters? When they talk about attested documents (degree; marriage certificate; birth certificates) are they referring to have them notarised ... Then how do you go about having them attested by the by the UAE consulate? Do I just FedEx with returnable to them in Ottawa? 
Like I said, the ins and outs .....


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## w_man (Apr 16, 2010)

MikeyBoy said:


> Thanks for the insight, greatly appreciated... Now can you shed some light on the ins and outs of sponsoring my wife and 2 daughters? When they talk about attested documents (degree; marriage certificate; birth certificates) are they referring to have them notarised ... Then how do you go about having them attested by the by the UAE consulate? Do I just FedEx with returnable to them in Ottawa?
> Like I said, the ins and outs .....


That was so long ago, I almost don't remember the details. I believe the marriage certificate or degree or both had to be attested by the Foreign Affairs department in Canada first and then sent to UAE consulate in Ottawa. I did FedEx with returnable to them and they sent it back fairly quickly. The Foreign Affairs took much longer though so plan ahead.

I would call the UAE consulate and just ask them - they were very helpful. This is a UAE requirement so they should have some details of what's required. 

I am also sure it's been covered on this Forum before too so try doing some search and you'll find some answers. 

Cheers.


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## sammylou (Oct 29, 2012)

w_man said:


> That was so long ago, I almost don't remember the details. I believe the marriage certificate or degree or both had to be attested by the Foreign Affairs department in Canada first and then sent to UAE consulate in Ottawa. I did FedEx with returnable to them and they sent it back fairly quickly. The Foreign Affairs took much longer though so plan ahead.


we just did this a few months back. you need to get your papers to the ministry of foreign affairs first as stated above. if you send it in by post or courier it could take 25 business days to process. we lived in toronto so it was feasible to spend a day driving out there in person as they will do it same day. and if you get there early enough you will have time to drive down the street to the UAE embassy to get it stamped. i believe i had to get to the embassy by noon in order to be able to pick up same day between 2 - 2:30 pm. call them and they wil confirm the same day service cut off time.

if you are not able to get to ottawa and you are time pressed, you can hire a process server to do the same day service on your behalf.

do not forget that you must also have your university send a sealed copy of your transcripts directly to the UAE embassy before you try to get your degree attested.

here are links with the info you need:

Authentication of Documents

UAE Embassy in Ottawa » Degree Attestation


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## MikeyBoy (Jan 13, 2013)

Thanks, I've started the process and agree a day trip in would be worth it. Appreciate the insight and advice from all..


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## Canuck_Sens (Nov 16, 2010)

MikeyBoy said:


> Thanks, I've started the process and agree a day trip in would be worth it. Appreciate the insight and advice from all..


Mike,

I am a non permanent resident of Canada (officially). You should not be afraid to inquire the CRA about your status. Their opinion is needed if you want to unlock your RRSPs which I did.

I kept my credit card and my bank accounts. I sold my property and exported my car to the UAE.

I inquired the CRA and they acknowledged that I am not a resident of Canada.

This is what I would do if I were you:

a) Driver license, car and house should be canceled/ disposed or at least you should rent your property if you owe one. You pay taxes on the rent that's it.

You should also update your address with CRA when you move. Your OHIP will be canceled either way, but I would cancel it upfront because the CRA looks after any documents that can demonstrate that you have a tie so that would be the driver's license and the OHIP.

b) Credit Card. Keep the oldest credit card you have since your credit history is there. Canceling that card will eliminate your history. Have a friend to receive the statements or family member

c) You can still hold your accounts and you are allowed to change your address in the Banks to the one you will have overseas. Bear in mind that you will pay non resident tax in your investments. The tax regime changes in this case. I had my accounts address changed to my friend's in Canada and explained to CRA that under the current legislation I cannot have the risk to have my financial statements "flying overseas" and closing your accounts will be hard if you have RRSPs only if you are willing to pay a huge tax to unlock them

d) You are allowed to unlock your RRSPS with a 25% hit only after two years of completing non residency status and for that you will need a formal acknowledgement of CRA (official letter stating that you are not a permanent resident)

I think you should wait. See if you settle just alright. feel free to shoot me P message.

Good luck.
R


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## MikeyBoy (Jan 13, 2013)

Okay, Im now in possession of my crisp new employment/residency Visa....now *
*
I have a certified and stamped marriage certificate from the UAE Embassy in Ottawa, so where do I now go to apply for sponsorship for the missus and kids?
Thanks in advance, everyone has been great and I appreciate the input and guidance. Cheers


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## imac (Oct 14, 2012)

Canuck_Sens said:


> Mike,
> 
> d) You are allowed to unlock your RRSPS with a 25% hit only after two years of completing non residency status and for that you will need a formal acknowledgement of CRA (official letter stating that you are not a permanent resident)
> 
> R


According to my FA, you can withdraw from your RRSP at any time, but are subject to a 30% withholding tax at source (unless you live in Quebec). If you take out $100K the bank holds $30K to send to the CRA and gives you $70K.

You dont need any pre-approval from the CRA to do that. Just to to your RRSP issuer and tell them you want to withdraw, and they will make you do a mountain of paperwork.

Money withdrawn has to be reported as income for the year in which you make the withdrawal. The 30% gets reported as tax paid, and any difference once you factor in other income will be tax owing.


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## w_man (Apr 16, 2010)

MikeyBoy said:


> Okay, Im now in possession of my crisp new employment/residency Visa....now
> I have a certified and stamped marriage certificate from the UAE Embassy in Ottawa, so where do I now go to apply for sponsorship for the missus and kids?
> Thanks in advance, everyone has been great and I appreciate the input and guidance. Cheers


So are you in Dubai now? You mentioned you have your residency visa so I'm assuming you are here now.

If so, your company's PRO should be able to assist with your family's sponsorship/residency visas. If you are in a free zone, you simply have to submit all the documents to the free zone authority and they will issue residency visas to your family.

If you're not in Dubai yet then the rest will only take place once you're in UAE and get a residency visa in your passport. I believe the marriage certificate also has to be stamped by some department in Dubai (Foreign Affairs? i think) - again, these details you should be able to get from the same place your visa will get issued. Ideally, check with the PRO of your company.

Hope to see you around.


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## Canuck_Sens (Nov 16, 2010)

imac said:


> According to my FA, you can withdraw from your RRSP at any time, but are subject to a 30% withholding tax at source (unless you live in Quebec). If you take out $100K the bank holds $30K to send to the CRA and gives you $70K.
> 
> You dont need any pre-approval from the CRA to do that. Just to to your RRSP issuer and tell them you want to withdraw, and they will make you do a mountain of paperwork.


Imac,

I am not sure who your FA adviser is, but it is obvious he either forgot to tell you about how to pay less taxes or he does not know.

I said that you need the CRA letter if you want to pay 25% tax after two years of non residency.

You can always withdraw at any time paying more taxes. 

Remember that RRSP is a deferred income scheme, therefore when you withdraw you pay income tax on that deferred income.

Therefore if you withdraw 100K, for the CRA your total income is 100K and you pay taxes on that.

The rule I am explaining is how to pay less taxes following the non residency rules.

Hope it clarifies.


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## imac (Oct 14, 2012)

Canuck_Sens said:


> Imac,
> Hope it clarifies.


It does, thanks.

To be fair to my FA, her response was directed at my question of having immediate access to the RRSP funds, without any significant waiting period.


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## MikeyBoy (Jan 13, 2013)

w_man said:


> So are you in Dubai now? You mentioned you have your residency visa so I'm assuming you are here now.
> 
> If so, your company's PRO should be able to assist with your family's sponsorship/residency visas. If you are in a free zone, you simply have to submit all the documents to the free zone authority and they will issue residency visas to your family.
> 
> ...


Thank you, I'm all squared away and have the process well in hand now


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## Black Jack (Jul 24, 2011)

Great thread,

I am in the same boat here, left Canada on January 9th. Of course I didnt cancel everything initially because I had to pass my probationary period, but now I am starting to take action so that the CRA see's me as a non resident.

I do have two rental properties in Canada, so I have opened an *NR* account and I am starting to pay 25% GROSS of my rental income as a withholding tax (As I have been told I have to).

Im wondering a little bit more about the process at the end of the year so that I can deduct my interest and other rental expenses so I can get a refund back on the 25%.

From what I understand at the end of the year I need to file a T1159 Which is an income tax return for electing under a 216 return.

From what I unerstand I also need to file a T776 (Statement of real estate rentals).... Again, all of this being required so that I can get use my expenses to get some of the 25% GROSS withholding tax I am paying.


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## Black Jack (Jul 24, 2011)

I am also wondering how other Canadians are handling their "first" return after they left. In my Case I left on January 9th 2013, so I did not have any income in 2013.

From what I understand I can fill out a "Determination of Residency Status (Leaving Canada" form to get an "opinion" on my residency status. I am being told however, that this is optional.

Some people are telling me when it comes to filing my 2013 return, all I need to do is let them know I have left Canada and that's it. (Of course as mentioned in the post above I need to fill out the correct paperwork and forms for my rental properties).

Any tips, further discussion, would be greatly appreciated.


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## MikeyBoy (Jan 13, 2013)

thats the way my CA explained it to me, as you only need to pay tax on income earned in Canada from any source...i


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## Snarplett (Apr 20, 2013)

It was a tad easier for me ... but I got rid of all of my liabilities in Canada before I left. I'm not taxable outside of Canada which is a relief, but it does make it a little bit tricky if I relocate back (I've been an expact since I was about 7, but went back for university) since i have nowhere to relocate back to . I know a few people who have been asked by revenue Canada to submit employment information, but I'm not sure on the circumstances (whether they owned a house, etc). They've never bothered me for money, and they have my current address information from the high commission.


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## MikeyBoy (Jan 13, 2013)

Do you recommend registering with the consulate? I guess it's a good thing to do and maybe a free party once in a while!


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## Snarplett (Apr 20, 2013)

... and the possibility of getting in on some Molsen or Labatts


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## Canuck_Sens (Nov 16, 2010)

Are they planning to do anything for Canada's day ? It is coming and have not heard anything about it.


The Quebec day just took place two days ago.


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## Snarplett (Apr 20, 2013)

I haven't heard anything, but there's a Canadian Expats group that are planning on a bit of a shin dig. I would have joined them (I go where the beer goes) but we're moving house so plans are shafted.


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## Snarplett (Apr 20, 2013)

We're having a Grey Cup party in the fall that I'm going to though


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## MikeyBoy (Jan 13, 2013)

So the question now is.......Where is the best place the Hockey Games during the Sochi Games??? Wear your proud Canadian jersey


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