# The Brotherhood



## CAIRODEMON (Sep 18, 2011)

I have always subscribed to the "know your enemy" point of view, and have realized that I really do not know much about the Brotherhood. Basically I think that they were founded quite early in the last century (1930's?) and were banned but tolerated (how Egyptian is that?) by successive regimes. Obviously they wish to propagate Islam and Sharia rule, but how extremist are they? Who is really behind them and therefore formulates policy, which outside Islamic groups or countries do they follow or would like to emulate?

I could go on, but basically can anyone tell me the name of a decent book which could help to fill in the many gaps.

:confused2:


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## Whitedesert (Oct 9, 2011)

CAIRODEMON said:


> I have always subscribed to the "know your enemy" point of view, and have realized that I really do not know much about the Brotherhood. Basically I think that they were founded quite early in the last century (1930's?) and were banned but tolerated (how Egyptian is that?) by successive regimes. Obviously they wish to propagate Islam and Sharia rule, but how extremist are they? Who is really behind them and therefore formulates policy, which outside Islamic groups or countries do they follow or would like to emulate?
> 
> I could go on, but basically can anyone tell me the name of a decent book which could help to fill in the many gaps.
> 
> :confused2:


 I am not 100% sure that anybody outside the inner circle really knows anything about them. The previous regimes turned them into the monster under the bed/in the cupboard, and so we have this "monster" image in our minds. Maybe it is valid, maybe not. I have tried to find a book on the movement with little luck. Newspaper articles were pure speculation, at best. It appears we may just find out, over then next few months:ranger:


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## aykalam (Apr 12, 2010)

BBC have a profile on their website

BBC News - Profile: Egypt's Muslim Brotherhood

I too would love to read more about them


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## pioneer5 (Jun 28, 2011)

The Muslim groups which today threaten the West with terrorism, subversion and insurgency are not only “fascist” in the broad sociological sense, but can trace their literal historical origins to Nazism and its genocidal ambitions. 

The ideology of the Islamists whose ranks today include not only al-Qaeda but also Hamas and Hezbollah, originated with Egypt’s Muslim Brotherhood, which was founded in 1928 by Sheikh Hassan al-Banna. The Muslim Brotherhood finds not just its roots, but much of its symbolism, terminology, and political priorities deep within the heart of Nazi fascism. 

For al-Banna, as for many other Muslims worldwide, the end of the caliphate, although brought about by secular Muslim Turks, was a sacrilege against Islam for which they blamed the non-Muslim West. It was to strike back against these evils that al-Banna founded the Muslim Brotherhood in 1928.

Al-Banna’s antipathy towards Western modernity soon moved him to shape the Brotherhood into an organization seeking to check the secularist tendencies in Muslim society and return to traditional Islamic values. Al-Banna recruited followers from a vast cross-section of Egyptian society by addressing issues such as colonialism, public health, educational policy, natural resources management, social inequalities, Arab nationalism, and the weakness of the Islamic world. Among the perspectives he drew on to address these issues were the anti-capitalist doctrines of European Marxism and especially fascism. 

As the Muslim Brotherhood expanded during the 1930s and extended its activities well beyond its original religious revivalism, al-Banna began dreaming a greater Muslim dream: the restoration of the Caliphate. He would describe, in inflammatory speeches, the horrors of hell expected for heretics, and consequently, the need for Muslims to return to their purest religious roots, and resume the great and final holy war, or jihad, against the non-Muslim world. 

The first big step in the international jihad al-Banna envisioned came in the form of trans-national terrorism during the Great Arab Revolt of 1936-39, when one of the most famous of the Muslim Brotherhood’s leaders, the Hajj Amin al-Husseini, Grand Mufti (Supreme Muslim religious leader) of Jerusalem, incited his followers to a three-year war against the Jews in Palestine and against the British who administered the Palestine Mandate. In 1936 the Brotherhood had about 800 members, but by 1938, just two years into the Revolt, its membership had grown to almost 200,000, with fifty branches in Egypt alone. By the end of the 1930s, there were more than a half million active members registered, in more than 2,000 branches across the Arab world. 

To achieve that broader dream of a global jihad, the Brotherhood developed a network of underground cells, stole weapons, trained fighters, formed secret assassination squads, founded sleeper cells of subversive supporters in the ranks of the army and police, and waited for the order to go public with terrorism, assassinations, and suicide missions. It was during this time that the Muslim Brotherhood found a soul mate in Nazi Germany. 

The Reich offered great power connections to the movement, but the relationship brokered by the Brotherhood was more than a marriage of convenience. Long before the war, al-Banna had developed an Islamic religious ideology which previewed Hitler’s Nazism. Both movements sought world conquest and domination. Both were triumphalist and supremacist (in Nazism the Aryan must rule, while in al-Banna’s Islam, the Muslim religion must hold dominion). Both advocated subordination of the individual to a central power. Both were explicitly anti-nationalist in the sense that they believed in the liquidation of the nation-state in favor of a trans-national unifying community. And both rabidly hated the Jews and sought their destruction. 

As the Brotherhood’s political and military alliance with Nazi Germany developed, these parallels facilitated a full-blown alliance, with all the pomp and panoply of formal state visits, de facto ambassadors, and overt as well as sub rosa joint ventures. Al-Banna’s followers easily transplanted into the Arab world a newly Nazified form of traditional Muslim Jew-hatred, with Arab translations of Mein Kampf (translated into Arabic as My Jihad) and other Nazi anti-Semitic works, including Der Sturmer hate-cartoons, adapted to portray the Jew as the demonic enemy of Allah. 

When the Second World War broke out, Al-Banna worked to firm up a formal alliance with Hitler and Mussolini. But the best known Nazi sympathizer in the Muslim Brotherhood was the Hajj Amin al-Husseini, Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, and one-time President of the Supreme Muslim Council of Palestine. The Grand Mufti was a bridge figure in terms of transplanting the Nazi genocide in Europe into the post-war Middle East and creating a fascist heritage for the Palestinian national movement. 

Al-Husseini used his office as a powerful bully pulpit from which to preach anti-Jewish, anti-Zionist, and (turning on his patrons) anti-British vitriol. He was directly involved in the organization of the 1929 riots which destroyed the 3,000-year-old Jewish community of Hebron. And he was quick to see that he had a natural ally in Hitler. As early as spring 1933, he assured the German consul in Jerusalem that "the Muslims inside and outside Palestine welcome the new regime of Germany and hope for the extension of the fascist, anti-democratic governmental system to other countries." 

The youth organization established by the Mufti used Nazi emblems, names and uniforms. Germany reciprocated by setting up scholarships for Arab students, hiring Arab apprentices at German firms, and inviting Arab party leaders to the Nuremberg party rallies and Arab military leaders to Wehrmacht maneuvers. Most significantly, the German Propaganda Ministry developed strong links with the Grand Mufti and with Arabic newspapers, creating a propaganda legacy that would outlast Husseini, Hitler, and all the other figures of World War II. 

In September 1937, Adolf Eichmann and another SS officer carried out an exploratory mission in the Middle East lasting several weeks, and including a friendly productive visit with the Grand Mufti. It was after that visit, in fact, that the Mufti went on the Nazi payroll as a Nazi agent and propagandist. During the Great Arab Revolt of 1936-39, which al-Husseini helped organize and which Germany funded, the swastika was used as a mark of identity on Arabic leaflets and graffiti. Arab children welcomed each other with the Hitler salute, and a sea of German flags and pictures of Hitler were displayed at celebrations. 

After meeting with Hitler on November 21, 1941, Husseini praised the Germans because they “know how to get rid of the Jews, and that brings us close to the Germans and sets us in their camp.” On March 1, 1944, the Mufti called out in a broadcast from Zeesen: “Arabs! Rise as one and fight for your sacred rights. Kill the Jews wherever you find them. Kill them with your teeth if need be. This pleases God, history, and religion. This saves your honor.” His own memoirs, and the testimony of German defendants at the Nuremberg trials later on, showed that he planned a death camp modeled on Auschwitz to be constructed near Nablus for the genocide of Palestine’s Jews. 

It was the Mufti who urged Hitler, Himmler, and General Ribbentrop to concentrate Germany’s considerable industrial and military resources on the extermination of European Jewry. The foremost Muslim spiritual leader of his time, he helped in this effort by lobbying to prevent Jews from leaving Hungary, Romania, and Bulgaria, even though those governments were initially willing to let them go. As Eichmann himself recounted: “We have promised him [the Mufti] that no European Jew would enter Palestine any more.”

Jihad's Nazi Connections - Discover the Networks


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## canuck2010 (Jan 13, 2010)

pioneer5 said:


> The Muslim groups which today threaten the West with terrorism, subversion and insurgency are not only &#147;fascist&#148; in the broad sociological sense, but can trace their literal historical origins to Nazism and its genocidal ambitions.
> 
> Jihad's Nazi Connections - Discover the Networks



That site is rather racist and bigoted, to put it mildly.

Sent from my iPad using ExpatForum


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## Whitedesert (Oct 9, 2011)

canuck2010 said:


> That site is rather racist and bigoted, to put it mildly.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using ExpatForum


I agree. I sit with a MB employee on my senior staff and in several discussions with him that is not the impression I got about the "modern" MB. But then, I am speculating too, would like real concrete evidence of the movement, who they are now (today), and what motivates and drives them.


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## txlstewart (Jun 20, 2010)

I've heard that the tone of the content on their English language website differs significantly from that of their Arabic language website.

Sent from my iPhone using ExpatForum


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## Eco-Mariner (Jan 26, 2011)

Germans now realise how wrong they were to follow such Nazi ideologies, forever embarrassed by Hitler's atrocities

Would we get the same denials from the new Muslim Brothers I wonder?


Eco-Mariner.


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## pioneer5 (Jun 28, 2011)

If we talk about racism and MB, I would recommend one article (old but still on time):

RACISM
The Arab world's dirty secret

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/10/opinion/10iht-edeltahawy.1.18556273.html

All foreigners or non Muslims living in Egypt are discriminated every day. Why expats pay double or triple price for same service, goods, tickets, etc.? Why non Muslim can not be high ranked officer in police?


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## Eco-Mariner (Jan 26, 2011)

and when in a recent interview, Morsi inadvertently said he would cast out the Coptics as part of his MB objectives.


Eco-Mariner.


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## DeadGuy (Jan 22, 2010)

Whitedesert said:


> I agree. I sit with a MB employee on my senior staff and in several discussions with him that is not the impression I got about the "modern" MB. But then, I am speculating too, would like real concrete evidence of the movement, who they are now (today), and what motivates and drives them.


Is your MB employee a political MB member or a religious one? :ranger:

It's amazing how "good" some MB members try to be in front of those who aren't MB members sometimes..........


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## DeadGuy (Jan 22, 2010)

txlstewart said:


> I've heard that the tone of the content on their English language website differs significantly from that of their Arabic language website.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using ExpatForum


What you've heard is 100% correct...........

And sometimes it's not just the "tone"........


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## MaidenScotland (Jun 6, 2009)

English friend was reading an Egyptian newspaper on line (in English) and reading it out to her Egyptian husband who was reading the same newspaper in Arabic.. they gave two different winners for the presidential election.. talk about hedging your bets lol


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## DeadGuy (Jan 22, 2010)

pioneer5 said:


> If we talk about racism and MB, I would recommend one article (old but still on time):
> 
> RACISM
> The Arab world's dirty secret
> ...


Cause the mentioned categories are _special _:eyebrows:


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## DeadGuy (Jan 22, 2010)

MaidenScotland said:


> English friend was reading an Egyptian newspaper on line (in English) and reading it out to her Egyptian husband who was reading the same newspaper in Arabic.. they gave two different winners for the presidential election.. talk about hedging your bets lol


So who was the _English _winner? :confused2:


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## MaidenScotland (Jun 6, 2009)

DeadGuy said:


> So who was the _English _winner? :confused2:




Shafik in English Morsi in Arabic


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## DeadGuy (Jan 22, 2010)

MaidenScotland said:


> Shafik in English Morsi in Arabic


Interesting..........

There are increasing _signs _now that Shafika is the "winner", but I can't really see him being the president with the rules that the SCAF set yesterday :confused2:

Anyway, apologies for changing the topic 

:focus:


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## MaidenScotland (Jun 6, 2009)

DeadGuy said:


> Interesting..........
> 
> There are increasing _signs _now that Shafika is the "winner", but I can't really see him being the president with the rules that the SCAF set yesterday :confused2:
> 
> ...




Same friend tells me they were watching the news in Arabic when SCAF slipped up and said they would be leaving at the end of the year December then after the stunned silence changed it to sorry I meant the end of this month.


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## DeadGuy (Jan 22, 2010)

MaidenScotland said:


> Same friend tells me they were watching the news in Arabic when SCAF slipped up and said they would be leaving at the end of the year December then after the stunned silence changed it to sorry I meant the end of this month.


Yup, saw that too, I didn't buy the December bit, nor June's.........

I would've believed it if they said "We're never leaving you idiots" 

:focus:


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## MaidenScotland (Jun 6, 2009)

pioneer5 said:


> If we talk about racism and MB, I would recommend one article (old but still on time):
> 
> RACISM
> The Arab world's dirty secret
> ...




I have never found racism in Egypt a secret... they are very open about it.


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## expatagogo (May 31, 2010)

DeadGuy said:


> Cause the mentioned categories are _special _:eyebrows:


Immediately after the fist election: "Shafiq made it through because the Christians voted for him", he was "the Christians' president," and "have you ever met a poor Christian?" (Hello! Me! How about the zabaleen?). Yesterday, when Morsi declared himself president, and these same people (female co-workers) were bemoaning how much they would miss facebook and belly dancing and music and and and and because "Morsi is coming and he will take it away," and how women who don't cover will have their heads cut off (they're sure of it), well, I had to say it: "Well, you can't lay the blame on Christian votes this time."

It's interesting to watch the oppressors living in fear of being oppressed themselves and that's a lot of what's happening.

It's hard not to gloat, but I'm trying. A little.

:focus:


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## Qsw (Feb 1, 2012)

pioneer5 said:


> If we talk about racism and MB, I would recommend one article (old but still on time):
> 
> RACISM
> The Arab world's dirty secret
> ...


Egypt has it's problems, just like any other country. Once we have anti-discrimination laws in place, and education is reformed, hopefully these kinds of issues will go away. There is still a long way to go before they do though. There's discrimination and racism in every country in the world, the best that can be done is to have legal and educational systems that fight it.

Businesses charging foreigners extra are doing that because they can. I don't like it, I'm pretty sure a lot of people here don't think it's fair, but there's nothing that can be done about it until the laws are changed. The best thing foreigners can do to combat this would be to look for companies that don't behave like this.

Back to the main topic, I don't think the MB of today are anything like the MB that was originally founded. As WhiteDesert mentioned, I think it's their actions over the next few months that will really reveal their agenda.


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## Maireadhoey (Jul 25, 2011)

CAIRODEMON said:


> I have always subscribed to the "know your enemy" point of view, and have realized that I really do not know much about the Brotherhood. Basically I think that they were founded quite early in the last century (1930's?) and were banned but tolerated (how Egyptian is that?) by successive regimes. Obviously they wish to propagate Islam and Sharia rule, but how extremist are they? Who is really behind them and therefore formulates policy, which outside Islamic groups or countries do they follow or would like to emulate?
> 
> I could go on, but basically can anyone tell me the name of a decent book which could help to fill in the many gaps.
> 
> :confused2:


To return to your question, I would recommend "Inside Egypt" by John R Bradley, it was banned in Egypt in 2008 but after international outcry the ban was lifted. It predicted the revolution, and although now a little dated it is is a good start point. It has a good section on the brotherhood without "too" much of a western slant. It fired my interest in Egyptian politics 4 years ago, but only since the revolution have I been able to discuss with egyptians the many points it raised....I guess that in itself is something the revolution has left us with.


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## CAIRODEMON (Sep 18, 2011)

Maireadhoey said:


> To return to your question, I would recommend "Inside Egypt" by John R Bradley, it was banned in Egypt in 2008 but after international outcry the ban was lifted. It predicted the revolution, and although now a little dated it is is a good start point. It has a good section on the brotherhood without "too" much of a western slant. It fired my interest in Egyptian politics 4 years ago, but only since the revolution have I been able to discuss with egyptians the many points it raised....I guess that in itself is something the revolution has left us with.


Thank you.


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## SunshineBarley (Jun 24, 2011)

CAIRODEMON said:


> I have always subscribed to the "know your enemy" point of view, and have realized that I really do not know much about the Brotherhood. Basically I think that they were founded quite early in the last century (1930's?) and were banned but tolerated (how Egyptian is that?) by successive regimes. Obviously they wish to propagate Islam and Sharia rule, but how extremist are they? Who is really behind them and therefore formulates policy, which outside Islamic groups or countries do they follow or would like to emulate?
> 
> I could go on, but basically can anyone tell me the name of a decent book which could help to fill in the many gaps.
> 
> :confused2:


As we have only just moved out here about 6 weeks ago, I am slightly concerned with what will happen, no matter what you read as with every politician they change their minds in a heartbeat to tell people what they want to hear! It would be nice to have a complete insight to what the Muslim Brotherhood is all about and whether they are just the devil in disguise !


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## MaidenScotland (Jun 6, 2009)

SunshineBarley said:


> As we have only just moved out here about 6 weeks ago, I am slightly concerned with what will happen, no matter what you read as with every politician they change their minds in a heartbeat to tell people what they want to hear! It would be nice to have a complete insight to what the Muslim Brotherhood is all about and whether they are just the devil in disguise !




I think we all feel the same... but dont forget.. the Official results come in tomorrow,


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## Eco-Mariner (Jan 26, 2011)

No matter who wins the Presidential run-off, SCAF will still keep control. The reason they changed the rules of the constitution overnight was because they feared the Muslim Brothers would use loopholes in it to clean up SCAF and take the proceeds of business and trade from them.

That's called Protectionism.
However the M.B. would only do the same given the opportunity.


Eco-Mariner.


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## MaidenScotland (Jun 6, 2009)

Eco-Mariner said:


> No matter who wins the Presidential run-off, SCAF will still keep control. The reason they changed the rules of the constitution overnight was because they feared the Muslim Brothers would use loopholes in it to clean up SCAF and take the proceeds of business and trade from them.
> 
> That's called Protectionism.
> However the M.B. would only do the same given the opportunity.
> ...




Was always a given... they were not going to nor will they give up power.


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## SunshineBarley (Jun 24, 2011)

According to a friend of mine - he was sent a video of the "troubles" in Sekalla last night - nothing major but it doesnt do the tourist industry any favours - the "troubles" were no more than shouting and banging with big sticks !! Lets hope that it doesnt get out of control and become more of a riot - thanks for the reassurance - will watch with baited breath for the outcome


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## canuck2010 (Jan 13, 2010)

I wonder if enough people frustrated enough to start huge protests and country wide strikes again.


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## Quick Ben (May 18, 2012)

Maireadhoey said:


> To return to your question, I would recommend "Inside Egypt" by John R Bradley,


There's another book by Mark A Gabriel it has a long title beginning " Journey inside the mind...." You can find it on Amazon and download to kindle for about £8.50

This has a lengthy discussion of the beginnings of the Muslim Brotherhood both as a social welfare organisation and as terrorists/persecuted freedom fighters ( depending how you choose to look at it ) opposing the Egyptian regime. 

It's main weaknesses are

a, It is a little out of date it was published in 2005 and it stops at the point where the leaders of the brotherhood were renouncing violence from their prison cells. An awful lot has happened since then.

b, Gabriel is a former Muslim scholar who converted to Christianity and the book has a clear agenda which you may or may not agree with. But even if you disagree with a lot of it you can still learn something of the history of the Brotherhood


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## DWCady (Jun 22, 2012)

Thanks for all this information. I have also been interested in the same questions each of you has been asking.


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## CAIRODEMON (Sep 18, 2011)

Quick Ben said:


> There's another book by Mark A Gabriel it has a long title beginning " Journey inside the mind...." You can find it on Amazon and download to kindle for about £8.50
> 
> This has a lengthy discussion of the beginnings of the Muslim Brotherhood both as a social welfare organisation and as terrorists/persecuted freedom fighters ( depending how you choose to look at it ) opposing the Egyptian regime.
> 
> ...



Thank you, I will try and get hold of a copy.


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