# Keeping a US Address



## Batobis

I will be moving to Mexico City in December. I think I should keep a US address, I am thinking of using my sons. What have others done?


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## TundraGreen

Batobis said:


> I will be moving to Mexico City in December. I think I should keep a US address, I am thinking of using my sons[sic]. What have others done?


I have found that giving US banks a foreign address limits some kinds of things that can be done online. So, after a little experimentation, I decided to use my son's US address for some banking. Otherwise I use my Mexico address.


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## Batobis

Do you keep a valid US drivers license?


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## Stevenjb

My understanding is that US financial institutions can close an account if they discover the customer is living outside of the US and it's territories.


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## TundraGreen

Batobis said:


> Do you keep a valid US drivers license?


I do at the moment, but for some complicated reasons involving a stolen license, my current license is not for the same state as my current US address.


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## lat19n

When we moved here to Mexico, we completed one of those change of address forms at our local post office, so they could redirect our mail. Of course they had no interest in sending our mail to Mexico, so we gave them the address of a friend in a neighboring county. Some people picked up on that without our intervention. Like the Supervisor of Elections in our friend's county. She automatically made us residents of her county, changed our official address to that of the Sup of Elections office. 

It is kind of important to establish/maintain US financial accounts before leaving 'home'. We have had an account at BofA since 1989. They have a good chunk of our change sitting in an account that earns peanuts. The only address they have for us is our Mexican address. I am not surprised that they are willing to hold onto our money even though we are living in Mexico and pay us nothing. I tried to create a Merrill Lynch account so I could buy a government bond and at least make a little interest on our money - no dice.

There are truly unexpected things that can happen to you when you move out of the US. We each had a variable annuity which we maintained for many years. Insurance products are State regulated. If you do not annuitize an annuity while you have an address in the state of purchase you have 2 options : a lifetime annuity where they dream up an expected lifetime and pay you a fixed rate each year into the long distant future. The other option is they turn it into an immediate annuity and write you a check for the entire amount and then you are susceptible to taxation in a single year. 

There are companies - like Schwab - that have no problem that we live in Mexico. In fact we met with a US rep in Mexico City and drew up the paperwork. But as has been pointed out - the options we have with them are somewhat limited.

Someone should write a book...


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## lagoloo

In the beginning, there was Banamex, Mexico and Banamex, USA. Perfect for expats. Then, several years ago, Banamex USA did some kind of unsavory action and as a result, all expat accounts were closed, including credit card accounts. After that it was time to dig for a solution. Thanks to a poster elsewhere, I was referred to "American Citizens Abroad" site, and from there, to a fine credit union insured account with all the features one needs, including a VISA card with low interest rates. They know our Mexican address (don't have another one) and business can be done online. This works for anyone who would rather avoid the dubious matter of using someone else's address.


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## Stevenjb

lagoloo said:


> [snip] Thanks to a poster elsewhere, I was referred to "American Citizens Abroad" site, and from there, to a fine credit union insured account with all the features one needs, including a VISA card with low interest rates. They know our Mexican address (don't have another one) and business can be done online. This works for anyone who would rather avoid the dubious matter of using someone else's address.


This ACA organization looks interesting.

Thanks for the info.


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## eastwind

US banks require a US residential address to open an account. Perhaps there are some somewhere that don't, but it seems consistent. It seems to fall under the "know your customer" anti-money-laundering rules that the government has put on banks. 

Once you have the account set up, banks that I know about don't seem to care if you leave that address and only have a US mailing address. I've told my two banks I'm living in Mexico, and they're ok with that. As far as I know, because I have a US mailing address, the accounts are considered US accounts and there are no limitations that I'm aware of. 

Rather than a relative or friend, I use a commercial service called TexasHomeBase (.com). It costs, but it's worth it to me. They open and scan all my income mail, send me an email notification, and I can log onto their site any time to view it, tell them to shred it, hold it, or forward it to me by fedex.

When going through the Residente Temporale process, Mexican immigration may (and as far as I know will) require original bank statements, the kind you get in the mail. If it looks like some sort of online thing you've printed off, they _may_ say "anyone could have printed that" and refuse it. My recommendation is to set up all your banking ahead of your move, while you still have a US residence, with an eye toward which banks you will want when you're in Mexico (e.g. I recommend Schwab), turn on paper, mailed, bank statements, and have them sent somewhere that you can eventually collect them so you can use them with INM as necessary.

I believe your last residential address, the one the banks keep on file but don't use as a mailing address, will be used to determine state income tax liability if your account ends up generating a 1099. Establishing real residency in a state that does not have an income tax before becoming an Expat is a good thing if you can swing it, but the commercial mail agencies like I use aren't sufficient by themselves, you actually have to live somewhere a few months to establish residency in that state.


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## eastwind

Also be aware that some states are quite "grabby" about claiming you as a resident. If you use the PO forwarding card to have your mail forwarded to a relative in another state, you may get claimed by that state as a resident. This happened to my brother a long time ago and it took him years to get it straightened out (the grabby state was Virginia, he never lived there, but they demanded that he file multiple years worth of Va income tax returns until he got the issue resolved).


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## perropedorro

Stevenjb said:


> My understanding is that US financial institutions can close an account if they discover the customer is living outside of the US and it's territories.


6 months ago my wife got some annoying, insistent inquiries from one of our U.S. banks demanding to know if she's a _dual citizen_. She was naturalized twenty years ago, but of course U.S./Mexican dual citizenship is irrelevant when present in either country: when you're in the U.S., you're American--- and in Mexico, you're a Mexican... _Punto_. We use our son's address for correspondence, but do have a Mexican phone number, and of course they can detect electronic access from a Mexican ISP. Just wondering why they're suddenly so curious and if anyone else has had the same experience.


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## lagoloo

In reply to the poster who suggested Schwab as an option, be aware that they ask a substantial amount to open an account, according to what I have heard.
If that's not the case, please correct me.

I'm not surprised that banks are getting more inquisitive with customers. When we'd been thrown under the bus by Banamex USA, I got mighty busy looking for a solution. For one thing, we needed a U.S. credit card account to pay bills in the U.S. such as orders from Amazon. In the process, I learned that there is a going business of selling people a fictitious address. That was a bit too squirelly for me, since it's only a matter of time before the long arm of whoever catches up with that, and then, you're back where you started.


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## citlali

Schwab account is like a pool account. We asked why we could have an account with them with a foreign address and the answer is that the account in really in Schwab´s name..amthough you would not know it by lookjing at your records. I do not remember what they needed when we opened the account but they had us change a lot of paperwork a few years ago when the trouble started with the addresses as we do not have a US address.


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## AnneLM

We have a Schwab High Yield Investor Checking Account which is linked to a Schwab One Brokerage Account (a requirement.) There were no minimums for either account. They reimburse our foreign transaction and ATM fees. We opened both accounts before we left the U.S. Since we sold our house before we moved and no longer own property in the U.S. we use our niece's address in our home state for mailing and tax purposes, but we set a travel alert to let Schwab know we are in Mexico, and they have extended the alert indefinitely until we notify them we have permanently returned to the U.S. This works great for us.


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## deborah13

I have kept a US mailing address and use that for my bank accounts. I often read how some U.S. banks close accounts if you reside outside of the U.S. and I don't want to take any chances. I did use my Mexico physical address on my brokerage account, but also my U.S. mailing address on that account. So far no problems. But it was not allowed on my IRA account at the same brokerage - without jumping through a lot of hoops, so same brokerage company but different information.


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## Tito-Paul

*Your U.S. Address*



Batobis said:


> I will be moving to Mexico City in December. I think I should keep a US address, I am thinking of using my sons. What have others done?


 Morning All my Fellow ExPats,
While families are great for a back up for mail, I decided almost 15 years ago to use a nifty alternative.:cheer2:

A Mail Forwarding Service, no fuss & no muss outfit that has never once failed me nor the others that use them. The outfit is based is Florida and you have a wide choice of plans to avail yourself of. I even have used this as my permanent U.S. address both for tax's, Passport and my DoD Clearances eep:

Not to run afoul of the moderators nor do I dare too but here is the contact info:

( St. Brendan's Isle Mail Forwarding Service ). You can view your mail or forward etc etc. They even did a bank run to deposit some good old fashion hard checks that got sent to me.. woohoo :hail:

Email me if you would like more details.. Oh! & I do not work for them nor do I get goodies or coins of the realm for this shout out. Just a highly satisfied customer.

Happy Trails Campers !


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## eastwind

lagoloo said:


> In reply to the poster who suggested Schwab as an option, be aware that they ask a substantial amount to open an account, according to what I have heard.
> If that's not the case, please correct me.


From their website:

To open a Schwab One Brokerage account, you need an initial deposit of $1,000. 

(note 5): The $1,000 minimum required to open an account is waived if you set up an automatic monthly transfer of $100 through direct deposit or Schwab MoneyLink® or open a Schwab Bank High Yield Investor Checking® account linked to your brokerage account.​Under info about the bank accounts, it says:
High Yield Investor Checking Account

Enjoy no ATM fees worldwide, no minimums, and bank anytime, anywhere with Schwab Mobile. The Schwab Bank High Yield Investor Checking® account is linked to a Schwab One® brokerage account * so you can easily manage both accounts with a single login.​


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## cvco

This topic has been covered several times on this forum. The OP might want to refer back to previous answers for more insight.

Though people are divided on whether one should keep a US address, for me its YES. As was just posted, Bank of America is one which wont allow you to be out more than six months and still keep the account. I need it because I pay bills from that account, transfer to myself from that account and thats also where SS payments now go. I have guns and must keep a US residence address for the associated licences. I have US credit cards and already know that I need a US address for those. And what about my professional licence? Need US address for that, too, AND for my drivers licence.

Im not in Mexico but have been out almost 20 years and use my parents address. They mind, they dont like it and I dont either but I dont have an alternative. Example, who could safely accumulate 1-2 years of mail each time--before I visit back--and who also wouldnt charge me?

I consider keeping a US address an inconvenient pain for everyone involved and I look forward to the time I wouldnt need it anymore, that time being when you can completely dismantle your life there and say bye bye.


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## esga

US address is a dilemma for us. We are selling our house. We have siblings, but like us they are retiring soon and will then be in transition themselves. I know that some of the obvious mail forwarding services are regularly detected by banks, in particular. I want a solution that is acceptable to the companies that hold my retirement funds, and I will move my accounts to those that are willing to have overseas customers. I do not want one of them to suddenly discover we are outside the US, close our account and mail us a check for the balance, because that would be taxable. But I also want to vote. Considering paying a friend a small fee to be an accommodation address.


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## lagoloo

In post #7, page 1 of this thread, I explained what I did about the banking situation.

My husband and I did this more than a year ago and are very well satisfied with the service and the VISA card we pay bills with. We have no need for a U.S. address. 

We have our SS checks automatically deposited in a Mexican bank convenient to us and easily withdraw cash as needed from it. The SS Administration knows where we live in Mexico and sends their yearly "Are you Alive?" verification to our home address in Mexico.

We keep the balance in the Mexican bank below the amount that's reported to the IRS.

My former address in CA is kept on file by the people sending ballots abroad, who (curiously) send my ballot to my Mexican address. When called for jury duty, they accepted the logical explanation that I don't live in CA any more.

My bills go to a mailbox company nearby for security reasons, but I could have them dropped in my mail slot at the gate if I chose to.

In other words, I don't need a U.S.address and I feel much warmer and fuzzier by not either having to lie about where I live, and my U.S. relatives aren't required to take care of my mail or lie about my real whereabouts if asked, either. For those who need one for purposes like their gun licenses, that's another matter.


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## tomwins

I guess everyone's needs are different so you are getting a lot of answers to how people have worked this out. 

We are living outside the US with no expectation of return. We are in Mexico for four - five months then go to Europe or Australia or South America or wherever else we choose for two months. We do visit the US for a day or two as we pass through on flights. Also we spent a week to two weeks in New York to see Broadway plays and visit friends at either the beginning or end of our trips to Europe. My mother is 89 1/2 so I am visiting her a couple of times for two to three weeks at a time. Usually these are in connection with a specific need from her (from a home project to doctor's visits).

We have a mailbox store that we have arranged to use as our mailing address. It has a street number. When in the US we have the mailbox store forward our mail to us at our address. When needed, they have opened and scanned mail for us and sent the scan via email.

We do all our banking online. Banks, credit cards, investment accounts, retirement boards, SSA, US health insurance, and etc. have our mailbox address as our permanent address and mailing address. They do not have a non-US address for us. This works quite well for us as it is easy for us to get our mail when we are in the US. Most often there is little in there that we need. Some renewed credit cards will be in there this spring when we are on our way to France and Spain.

We are in our early 60s and enjoy travel so we find this set-up to work quite well for us.

We were living in California and changed our residency to Florida prior to leaving the US. This was driving by not wanting to pay taxes to California for the rest of our lives since we will never live there again but also we find ourselves more on the east coast of the US now and so it is easier to deal with things there.

Before leaving the banking points let me tell my story about Schwab. We too use Schwab for one of our checking accounts. It is where my pension goes. We have used the mobile deposit feature when we got a check sent to us. I was able to use my phone to scan it and make the deposit. I've not paid a single fee for ATM usage in all my travels since getting the Schwab account. I can take out up to $1,000 (USD equivalent) a day at an ATM in Europe or Mexico or Canada ---- wherever. Customer service with them has been great. 

I was bothered by some actions (actually lack of action) by Vanguard when I sent them instructions to move some funds. They acknowledged receipt of the request but demanded I call and give verbal authorization. So I did this over Skype. Then I got another message saying they needed to talk to me. So I called back and they said we already talked to you and you are good to go. So I felt assured the transaction would be processed. Two weeks later it still showed "In process". So I called and they said I had never called in. That was it for me. I need better communication and record keeping. I am paying for their poor processes with loss of funds and tax consequences. I have been transferring all my other accounts over to Schwab since this happened in January. 

Medical care is not needed right now but when we need it we will get that in Mexico as we live near Guadalajara with world class care that is far more affordable than in the US. Our family has tried to send us things in Mexico (birthday cards and such) and it will get here in a month or two. But we get no bills or other mail in Mexico.

We are registered to vote as "out of country with unknown date of return." This prompted the registrar of voters to use our last physical address in the US to assign our registrar and polling location. 

This is how we addressed our needs and it is working well for us.


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## lagoloo

Sounds like "the good life". Enjoy!


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## DebInFL

Here are some options for residence and getting mail from Bob Wells of Cheap RV Living. This is mostly for people who live in and travel the U.S., but I don't see why it wouldn't work for living in Mexico. Yes, these services charge, but you have a legal U.S. address where you can get all your mail and a legal state residence where you can get your DL and bank accounts. 

I'm already in FL, so I'll use one here. The Big 3 for setting up residence are Florida, Texas and South Dakota, with SD being the friendliest and easiest to deal with. Escapees.com, a well known service, is now in all three states & has a great reputation, but is a little more expensive than some of the others. Of course, for all three of these states, you have to visit in person to get your Driver's License, so TX would probably be the most convenient for living in MX.

None of these states have state income tax.

Ever since Trump got into office, U.S. banks have been tougher about having U.S. bank accounts while living abroad, and MX is one of the countries they trust the least because of drugs. It's perfectly legal to have a U.S. account if you live in Mexico, but if you move large amounts of money in and out, I'd be careful. I only use my little local bank for my SS check and the occasional paper check deposit or transfer from PayPal. I don't have enough money to raise anyone's suspicions.

As for calling from a foreign country, just use a VPN (Virtual Privacy Network) and they won't even know where you are. If anyone questions, just tell them you travel a lot, so you use a VPN. 

Enjoy!


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## lat19n

DebInFL said:


> ... but you have a legal U.S. address where you can get all your mail and a legal state residence where you can get your DL and bank accounts.
> 
> Ever since Trump got into office, U.S. banks have been tougher about having U.S. bank accounts while living abroad, and MX is one of the countries they trust the least because of drugs. It's perfectly legal to have a U.S. account if you live in Mexico, but if you move large amounts of money in and out, I'd be careful. I only use my little local bank for my SS check and the occasional paper check deposit or transfer from PayPal. I don't have enough money to raise anyone's suspicions.
> 
> As for calling from a foreign country, just use a VPN (Virtual Privacy Network) and they won't even know where you are. If anyone questions, just tell them you travel a lot, so you use a VPN.


All our mail ? - The only mail we get from the US is mail we have no interest in. We really don't get any physical mail any more. The US financial institutions we deal with know we are here in Mexico and mail us whatever debit/credit cards we need here to Mexico. Even in Mexico - where we maintain a PO Box - we check it for mail every couple months or so.

I don't think Trump's getting into office had any bearing on FATCA. Over the years we have moved a good piece of our savings to Mexico, to buy our Mexican house (which we paid more for than any other house in our lives) and to buy a new car. Never have we had anyone exhibit suspicions. 

We have a VPN on one of our routers - we have two networks in the house. When I want to access our US financial institutions I actually have to DROP the VPN connection these days.

Not being critical - simply relating our experiences.


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## eastwind

I certainly had trouble opening a bank account before the election. So that must make it Obama's fault, right?

Or is everything before Trump still George Bush's fault??

I tried to open a TreasuryDirect account today, but they had "trouble verifying my information". Now I've got to present myself with valid ID to a banking official in the US and get a form stamped and mailed. (Says specifically a US notary won't do).

The claims that the mail forwarders make about their addresses being valid legal residential addresses don't always pan out in practice. But they are good for receiving mail.


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## lat19n

eastwind said:


> I certainly had trouble opening a bank account before the election. So that must make it Obama's fault, right?
> 
> Or is everything before Trump still George Bush's fault??
> 
> I tried to open a TreasuryDirect account today, but they had "trouble verifying my information". Now I've got to present myself with valid ID to a banking official in the US and get a form stamped and mailed. (Says specifically a US notary won't do).
> 
> The claims that the mail forwarders make about their addresses being valid legal residential addresses don't always pan out in practice. But they are good for receiving mail.


Hmm - I might have a TreasuryDirect account - but I have never used it - I'll have to check that out because I really don't enjoy paying Schwab a cut on monies that have to stay in the US for now.

You should consider a CetesDirecto account - check the back pages of El Financiero. 7.85% for a 12 month cete. We are very happy with CetesDirecto.


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## eastwind

US annual inflation (Jan 18): 2.1%. This is from Current US Inflation Rates: 2008-2018 | US Inflation Calculator and it claims they are using BLS CPI. 

1 year US Tbill (3/3) 2.072%. Real yield vs CPI -0.028%

Mexico annual rate of CPI inflation ticked down a lot in january, to 5.55% from 6.77% in december. 
Source Current inflation Mexico – CPI inflation Mexico

If one believes all those numbers, the 1 year cete is a great deal. I will consider further. If the 5.55% inflation figure doesn't get revised higher the cete is a much better deal. Even +1.08% real yield is a lot better than -0.028%. 

My point about US addresses (back on topic) is to get all your financial accounts set up before you leave the US because it probably will be more hassle later, even if you have a paid mail service that claims you can use the address as a residential address.


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## lat19n

Back off topic for a moment.

I do not come from a finance/economics background. In fact I remember the first time I learned that something like 70% of US GDP is consumer spending !

Can a person really compare a CPI figure from the US to a CPI figure in Mexico ? Does each index have the same components ? I think the US figure only deals with 'urban' areas in select states. What are the 'big-hitter' things in life that are excluded from CPI ?

If - let's say - Trump dreams up an alternative to Obamacare which provides less medical coverage for less cost - how does that impact CPI ? Inflation / deflation ?


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## janilee

We moved out of the country and use a trusted cousin's address in OH. The next year, we received a letter from OH saying we owed them State taxes. Having moved from a state who didn't charge state taxes on retirement, we didn't expect it. As it turns out, we only had to send a letter informing them that we had no spent time in OH for that tax year, but you might want to check on that before it comes up.
As for banking, our bank requires a U.S. address on file, but we simply notified our bank credit/debit card companies that we were traveling outside the U.S. They don't care how long we are away as long as they have a U.S. contact address. Don't forget to go paperless on your statements so you can print them and not have your son's box crowded with mail you could get online. 
Regarding use of credit cards, there are only two that I know of that don't charge you a foreign transaction fee: Capital One and Discover, though Discover is very seldom accepted in Italy. 
We maintain our U.S. address because, as retirees, we will always have a reason to do business in the U.S. 
Enjoy your new surroundings.


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## JM101

When I retired to the Philippines a few years ago, I kept a mailing address in the US plus my Nevada Drivers License and my bank accounts in which I had direct deposit set-up for my checks.

My original plans were to remain in the Philippines with my wife and enjoy the expat life overseas.

Well, as events happen in life, about a year and a half after moving, I was forced to return to the USA due to medical issues. During my wife’s interview for her visa to the USA, I was asked about my Domicile. Fortunately, I did keep an address and that additional proof that I was still a US citizen with ties to the USA or I would not have been able to bring her in with me.

Something to think about when moving overseas.

JM101


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## Meritorious-MasoMenos

Stevenjb said:


> My understanding is that US financial institutions can close an account if they discover the customer is living outside of the US and it's territories.


I don't know. I've been living outside U.S. since Dec., 2014. I simply inform each of my U.S. banks where I'm living (one needs just one notification for each change of country, the other, every two months, mainly to use ATM. It is true I have a U.S. address on each account.


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## Meritorious-MasoMenos

AnneLM said:


> We have a Schwab High Yield Investor Checking Account which is linked to a Schwab One Brokerage Account (a requirement.) There were no minimums for either account. They reimburse our foreign transaction and ATM fees. We opened both accounts before we left the U.S. Since we sold our house before we moved and no longer own property in the U.S. we use our niece's address in our home state for mailing and tax purposes, but we set a travel alert to let Schwab know we are in Mexico, and they have extended the alert indefinitely until we notify them we have permanently returned to the U.S. This works great for us.


Same with me. Plus they have great customer service. They return about $20.00 a month in ATM fees, far larger than interest given on funds in checking account, which I keep at around $2,000.

They also have the lowest cost index funds in the industry, most of which are highly rated for returns by Morningstar.


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## AnneLM

BankAmericard does not charge a foreign transaction fee.


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## cnmx

https://ipostal1.com

Ipostal1 is pretty cool. I've been useing it for a few years for my business address. They have a phone app that tells you when you have mail (sends you a scanned image of the front of the envelope), then you have the option for them scan the contents and email you the pdf, mail it to you thought the service of your choice (they'll batch them) or shred. If you receive checks they can deposit it in your account. The base price is around $9USD per month.

With Mail boxes Etc in Mexico you can have packages sent to an address in Miami, then they'll cart it over though Mexico for you to pick up. I have not used this but it sounds like they transport it themselves in country and it's designed to be used for ecommerce purchases Amazon, et al. It specifically says they will not handle anything finance related, no checks or credit cards.


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## eastwind

And for anyone still in the planning stages of a move to Mexico, a little anecdote that might persuade you of the utility of keeping a US or other home country address.

I have avoided giving out my Mexican address to anyone, but I had to give it to my health insurance provider, Cigna, because they "needed" to know where I was living. They promised to use my US mailing address for correspondence, but haven't.

Today, March 9, 2018, I received from Cigna a letter (A4 sized envelope, quite battered) sent airmail, from Greenock, Scotland, on December 5th, 2017.


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## Meritorious-MasoMenos

cnmx said:


> https://ipostal1.com
> 
> Ipostal1 is pretty cool. I've been useing it for a few years for my business address. They have a phone app that tells you when you have mail (sends you a scanned image of the front of the envelope), then you have the option for them scan the contents and email you the pdf, mail it to you thought the service of your choice (they'll batch them) or shred. If you receive checks they can deposit it in your account. The base price is around $9USD per month.
> 
> With Mail boxes Etc in Mexico you can have packages sent to an address in Miami, then they'll cart it over though Mexico for you to pick up. I have not used this but it sounds like they transport it themselves in country and it's designed to be used for ecommerce purchases Amazon, et al. It specifically says they will not handle anything finance related, no checks or credit cards.


Great information, thanks. Would that address be valid when I returned physically to a state and say, was just staying at an airbnb for two months, be valid, if I got a U.S. cell phone SIM card, for getting a driver's license and signing up for a medical insurance program?

As a corollary, hat do people do who go back to the States for extended period for cars, without relying on relatives. Leases of one-three months don't seem to exist, and rentals for that period are cost-prohibitive.

I've read about airbnb type long term car leases but have no idea of cost.

Is best option buying a used car for $5,000-$8,000, then resell when going back to Mexico? I plan to leave Thailand in November but undecided about going to U.S. first or straight to Mexico, Thanks.


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## dwwhiteside

eastwind said:


> And for anyone still in the planning stages of a move to Mexico, a little anecdote that might persuade you of the utility of keeping a US or other home country address.
> 
> I have avoided giving out my Mexican address to anyone, but I had to give it to my health insurance provider, Cigna, because they "needed" to know where I was living. They promised to use my US mailing address for correspondence, but haven't.
> 
> Today, March 9, 2018, I received from Cigna a letter (A4 sized envelope, quite battered) sent airmail, from Greenock, Scotland, on December 5th, 2017.


Yep, that sounds about right. When people ask me about sending mail directly to my home in Mexico, I just tell that I get Christmas cards in March. So, if it is something I need to receive sooner than three months time, they should send it to my mailbox in the U.S. and I will have them forward it via UPS.


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## lagoloo

I have a mailbox in Texas. When I tried to use it to get stamps delivered, they responded by saying they knew what that was and couldn't use it as a legit U.S. address. I depends on the resources, apparently and will work for some things, but not for others. Works fine for getting Christmas cards from my cousins.


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## Cha Cha

I'm surprised no one in this interesting thread has mentioned a key point - since the "Patriot Act", financial institutions demand a residential address which is not a mail drop (USPO or private).

One can try to keep using the mail drop as the official residential address, but for a Driver's License for instance it demands a non- mailbox address.

What works best I've found is to provide a residential address - I had no choice with most entities today - but ask that all mail be sent to one's mailing address.

The danger would be if an institution ever insists on sending something to one's official residential address, and it's one that was given to open the account but one no longer resides or receives mail there.


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## Cha Cha

Didn't mean to post twice - how the F do I edit a post here?


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## singhdevika1985

Yes, should keep the address of USA.


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## Meritorious-MasoMenos

Cha Cha said:


> I'm surprised no one in this interesting thread has mentioned a key point - since the "Patriot Act", financial institutions demand a residential address which is not a mail drop (USPO or private).
> 
> One can try to keep using the mail drop as the official residential address, but for a Driver's License for instance it demands a non- mailbox address.
> 
> What works best I've found is to provide a residential address - I had no choice with most entities today - but ask that all mail be sent to one's mailing address.
> 
> The danger would be if an institution ever insists on sending something to one's official residential address, and it's one that was given to open the account but one no longer resides or receives mail there.


I checked out the website that cmmx provided in his/her post: "Ipostal1 is pretty cool. I've been useing it for a few years for my business address. They have a phone app that tells you when you have mail (sends you a scanned image of the front of the envelope), then you have the option for them scan the contents and email you the pdf, mail it to you thought the service of your choice (they'll batch them) or shred. If you receive checks they can deposit it in your account. The base price is around $9USD per month."

The address they'd give me for northern Virginia is just a street address, town, state and zip. No "P.O." in address at all. do you or CNMX know if DMV and banks would accept this or would their data bases have such addresses flagged? 

Their website promises "Real U.S. street address."

Among addresses offered for VA:

1602 Belle View Blvd
Alexandria, VA 22307

Standard address from $9.99 
435 Merchant Walk Square
Charlottesville, VA 22902

Standard address from $9.99 
1508 Sams Cir
Chesapeake, VA 23320

Thanks.


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## citlali

I think that if you move to another country you are better off with a driverps license from that country and forget about renewing the old license, you can always get a new license if you move back. Why complicate life. We moved from California and let the license expire as we also did not have a California address..


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## TundraGreen

citlali said:


> I think that if you move to another country you are better off with a driverps license from that country and forget about renewing the old license, you can always get a new license if you move back. Why complicate life. We moved from California and let the license expire as we also did not have a California address..


I agree. Getting a Mexican driver's license was the easiest interaction with the bureaucracy I have had. It was much easier and quicker than dealing with DMV in California. When I did it, I had to take a computerized quiz that required a minimal ability to read Spanish and take a short driving test using their vehicle. But my US license had been stolen so I had no license to start with. When I renewed, I didn't need to take any tests. I was in and out in about half an hour with much of the time taken waiting for them to print and laminate the card.


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## Lawgrrl

citlali said:


> I think that if you move to another country you are better off with a driverps license from that country and forget about renewing the old license, you can always get a new license if you move back. Why complicate life. We moved from California and let the license expire as we also did not have a California address..


You may find that by allowing your US license to expire that you've also allowed your driving history to "lapse." If and when you go to buy insurance upon your hypothetical return, you may find yourself paying "new driver" rates.


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## Meritorious-MasoMenos

Lawgrrl said:


> You may find that by allowing your US license to expire that you've also allowed your driving history to "lapse." If and when you go to buy insurance upon your hypothetical return, you may find yourself paying "new driver" rates.


And you'd also may have to take a new driving test. At least a written one.


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## Stevenjb

By not having continuous automobile insurance the rates may be higher.


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## AceM

For the amount of money i am saving i figured i could get a virtual mailbox in the closest state to where i am expatting. They will scan mail online for you and hold mail if you need to have it shipped to you.

If you have issues with IP addresses simply get a VPN which also gives you the benefit of watching netflix from other areas.

Keep it simple stupid is my motto KISS.


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## Stevenjb

AceM said:


> For the amount of money i am saving i figured i could get a virtual mailbox in the closest state to where i am expatting. They will scan mail online for you and hold mail if you need to have it shipped to you.
> 
> If you have issues with IP addresses simply get a VPN which also gives you the benefit of watching netflix from other areas.
> 
> Keep it simple stupid is my motto KISS.


Please post here on your virtual mailbox choice. 

If you plan on picking up your mail at a VM, the ones I saw online are no-go to limited in that option. Best to check with them.


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## AceM

Stevenjb said:


> Please post here on your virtual mailbox choice.
> 
> If you plan on picking up your mail at a VM, the ones I saw online are no-go to limited in that option. Best to check with them.


If you plan on picking up your mail at a VM, the ones I saw online are no-go to limited in that option. Best to check with them.[/QUOTE]

I havent selected a service yet as i am still in Seattle. If you want to go and get your mail a local UPS store or mail store would be suitable and have regular addresses not PO boxes.


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## Stevenjb

AceM said:


> If you plan on picking up your mail at a VM, the ones I saw online are no-go to limited in that option. Best to check with them.





> I havent selected a service yet as i am still in Seattle. If you want to go and get your mail a local UPS store or mail store would be suitable and have regular addresses not PO boxes.


You could, there are restrictions to this method. I have read that financial institutions have a data base that flags these addressee and could jeopardise a financial account. 

I have not read that envelope scanning is available at these locations. Compare services with a UPS type of mail box to an actual VM service.

If you plan on opening a UPS type mail box, you may need to reside in that state to do so. When I opened a UPS mail box for my personal use, they required quite a few ID verification documents.

Price $$$


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## Lawgrrl

You might have better luck with an independent, non-franchise mailbox. For 3 years, our Oregon credit union and various credit card issuers thought that we "resided" in a private mailbox in a small town in Washington near the Canadian border. The USPS knew it was a private box and wouldn't allow forwarding FROM there when we stopped using the service. We just changed our address online with each institution. 
Banks are more likely to accept a foreign address for checking, savings, etc., but the credit card issuers want a US address so that they can collect from your assets in event of default.


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## DebInFL

tomwins said:


> I guess everyone's needs are different so you are getting a lot of answers to how people have worked this out.
> 
> My mother is 89 1/2 so I am visiting her a couple of times for two to three weeks at a time. Usually these are in connection with a specific need from her (from a home project to doctor's visits).


Did it ever occur to you that your mother is making up reasons to get you to come visit her? I can't imagine ever leaving my mother alone while I traveled the world, but then, I'm not wealthy, so I couldn't afford to do either. 

I read this, then called my son and asked him if he would ever leave me alone when I was almost 90 to travel the world. He said "Hell, no! Where would you get that idea?" He's such a great son.


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## Milagro

*Work requirement re: living in US, not just an address*

I live in Mexico but keep a small apartment in the U.S. to stay a few months each year. My concern is that my employer recently told us we must live in the U.S. to work for them. (I work online and have worked from anywhere in recent years.) Two people I know have lost their online jobs because they are not living in the U.S., although they are U.S. citizens. Does anyone know anything about this? I've been working online for 16 years and this is just now coming up.


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## Stevenjb

It may depend on the job. There are YouTube'rs that worked for a U.S. company online from Mexico and was told by the U.S. company to return to the States to work or the YouTuber would be terminated (due to legality issues with the type of work) - YMMV


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## Meritorious-MasoMenos

Stevenjb said:


> It may depend on the job. There are YouTube'rs that worked for a U.S. company online from Mexico and was told by the U.S. company to return to the States to work or the YouTuber would be terminated (due to legality issues with the type of work) - YMMV


That's exactly what happened to wife half of "Kinetic Kennons" earlier this year. She has a masters in some kind of financial/tax field. They brought all kinds of high tech equipment when they moved to Mexico for her work with full agreement by her employer that she could work remotely full time, while her husband produced the videos (on separate equipment). After two years, the company gave her an ultimatum: return to work in U.S. or be fired. She chose the latter. No reason. Just return or be fired.

They have only great things to say about both Mexico and the U.S., so that they were offending nobody.

A shame because company approved everything ahead of time. Any change in U.S. tax laws? They're just in their mid-20s and are sweetly naive about Mexico. Felt sorry for them.


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## Isla Verde

Meritorious-MasoMenos said:


> A shame because company approved everything ahead of time. Any change in U.S. tax laws? They're just in their mid-20s and are sweetly naive about Mexico. Felt sorry for them.


They may also be sweetly naïve about US tax laws too.


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## lagoloo

My curiosity has been piqued here. What's the change in legality these companies are basing their demands upon? I know more than one person who is working or intends to work remotely for their U.S. employer. The employer knew about their residence in Mexico.


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## Stevenjb

In the example above with the Kennons, she is an accountant. There may have been concerns with processing US citizen financials in a foreign country (I don't recall the Kennons mentioning the employer reason).

Yes her employer would initially know about this; perhaps some law or concern on the employer end triggered the events. In the US, employees work 'at will' for an employer, and can be let go at any time.

They seem to be doing well in Mexico with YouTube/Patreon fund sources.


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## Milagro

*Same question*



lagoloo said:


> My curiosity has been piqued here. What's the change in legality these companies are basing their demands upon? I know more than one person who is working or intends to work remotely for their U.S. employer. The employer knew about their residence in Mexico.


I have the same question and am trying to figure out what has changed. I teach online and have done so for several schools for the past 10 years. My friends who also teach online, like me, live outside of the US sometimes since our work is portable. We never had a problem in the past. We are all US citizens. My most recent university, as well as another university that employs my friend, just fired several people because they do not reside in the US. Our pay is automatically deposited to our US account and we pay US taxes on the income.


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## Cha Cha

Stevenjb said:


> By not having continuous automobile insurance the rates may be higher.


They will almost certainly be astronomically higher.


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## Cha Cha

Meritorious-MasoMenos said:


> I checked out the website that cmmx provided in his/her post: "Ipostal1 is pretty cool. I've been useing it for a few years for my business address. They have a phone app that tells you when you have mail (sends you a scanned image of the front of the envelope), then you have the option for them scan the contents and email you the pdf, mail it to you thought the service of your choice (they'll batch them) or shred. If you receive checks they can deposit it in your account. The base price is around $9USD per month."
> 
> The address they'd give me for northern Virginia is just a street address, town, state and zip. No "P.O." in address at all. do you or CNMX know if DMV and banks would accept this or would their data bases have such addresses flagged?
> 
> Their website promises "Real U.S. street address."
> 
> Among addresses offered for VA:
> 
> 1602 Belle View Blvd
> Alexandria, VA 22307
> 
> Standard address from $9.99
> 435 Merchant Walk Square
> Charlottesville, VA 22902
> 
> Standard address from $9.99
> 1508 Sams Cir
> Chesapeake, VA 23320
> 
> Thanks.


These used to work.

If you have an existing bank account or cc account my experience is that you can enter any address for a Change of Address and they will accept it.

But if you want to get a new bank account or cc account, these no longer work. They've updated the databases. Or they just use something like FedEx's available online database which will state Business Address or Residential Address.


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## Meritorious-MasoMenos

Cha Cha said:


> These used to work.
> 
> If you have an existing bank account or cc account my experience is that you can enter any address for a Change of Address and they will accept it.
> 
> But if you want to get a new bank account or cc account, these no longer work. They've updated the databases. Or they just use something like FedEx's available online database which will state Business Address or Residential Address.


Very valuable information. Thanks. I do have two U.S. banks already, so that this is great news for me.


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## deborah13

Schwab gave me nothing but trouble after I moved to Mexico, ended up closing my account, and tried to cheat me out of thousands of dollars. It was a real fight and I got most of my money back, but I can't count how many people lied to me at Schwab. Be very careful. As they are in the process of acquiring TD Ameritrade, I closed my accounts there too. I will never have anything to do with Schwab again. 

I also used a friends address for my "US address" when I moved to Mexico, but it was in the same state. And yes, lots and lots of businesses and government entities have access to the postal service changes of address. There is no privacy in the USA.


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## eastwind

Another thing to mention if you keep a US address is to make sure that your full name, including your full middle name, is on the accounts so stuff mailed to that address will include your middle name.

For my whole US life I basically ignored my middle name, never used it on financial accounts, never included it in my signature, etc. It's on my passport (but I even signed my passport without it). 

Mexico cares very much about middle names, and I am having a heck of a time right now because I don't have anything that shows proof of address in a way that contains my full middle name. The one thing that might work is my Texas driver's license, but on that I misspelled my middle name, so it won't do either!

So if I had things to do over again, I'd get all my accounts in the US squared away while I had a US address, including obtaining all the credit cards I'd need (not just debit cards) and get my middle name on everything, spelled correctly, with lots of official looking paper sent to my address showing my full name. The hassle is so bad I've even contemplated renting a very cheap apartment in Texas for a few months, switching everything to that address, collecting paper, getting credit cards, then dropping the lease.


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## TundraGreen

eastwind said:


> Another thing to mention if you keep a US address is to make sure that your full name, including your full middle name, is on the accounts so stuff mailed to that address will include your middle name.
> 
> For my whole US life I basically ignored my middle name, never used it on financial accounts, never included it in my signature, etc. It's on my passport (but I even signed my passport without it).
> 
> Mexico cares very much about middle names, and I am having a heck of a time right now because I don't have anything that shows proof of address in a way that contains my full middle name. The one thing that might work is my Texas driver's license, but on that I misspelled my middle name, so it won't do either!
> 
> So if I had things to do over again, I'd get all my accounts in the US squared away while I had a US address, including obtaining all the credit cards I'd need (not just debit cards) and get my middle name on everything, spelled correctly, with lots of official looking paper sent to my address showing my full name. The hassle is so bad I've even contemplated renting a very cheap apartment in Texas for a few months, switching everything to that address, collecting paper, getting credit cards, then dropping the lease.


I also use my full name in Mexico where I never did in the US. But, out of curiosity, where is the problem. I use my full name on Mexican documents and bank accounts and my name with just middle initial on all the US stuff. I've never had it cause any problems. My US passport has the full name and that is the only thing Mexico ever looked at. Now that I have a Carta de Naturalización, they don't even look at that. I know it is especially a hassle for women who have changed their name.


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## roymcgraw1936

Stevenjb said:


> My understanding is that US financial institutions can close an account if they discover the customer is living outside of the US and it's territories.


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## eastwind

Just seeing Tundra Green's 'where is the problem' question from 2020, lol, since the thread got necroed.

The problem I had was I had moved to Mexico and was renting here, and trying to buy a place. I needed a fideicomiso set up. They wanted two proofs of identity, passport and another photo ID. Both had to have my full name, including middle name. And they had to match. 

The other half of the problem was that although my passport had my full name, including middle name, on it, when I signed the passport I signed it using my normal US signature, the one I signed everything with for years: first and last name. That was a big mistake, that I am still living with and which I can't correct until my passport expires in 2026.

In response to Roy, yes, you're correct as far as what you wrote goes. The reality is banks can close your account for any reason they like. If you set up a US mailing address and a US phone number and don't go out of your way to tell them you're living in Mexico you will probably be ok.


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## Bobbyb

There are new laws in the US regarding bank accounts. Your PHYSICAL address has to be in the USA. If one uses a po box service like a UPS store they can easily google your address and see that ir is not a home. I think this only applies to interest bearing accounts


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## eastwind

This is true, though not that new, it was put in place by congress after 9/11/01. You need a physical US residential address to open a US bank account. However, once you have it open, you can direct mail to a mailing address.


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## citlali

investigate thoroughly the consequences of having or not having aUS account,, there good and bad ramification talk to your account, 
I am not a us citizen i am recentlt widoed. my husband and i have filed jointly for the last 50 years , we have had no us address for the last 20years and my accountant talked to me in having a us address.Huge mistake for me Thet was a red flag for the IRS . 
We have had a schwab international bak account tied to IRAs that has worked well for us and a Mexican bank account.. A mistake we made is that the account was joint account. WHen my husband died they asked me to proved he did not have more than 60 000 of non transferable moneys.. How do you prove you do not have something. My acoount was shut down from March to now. I am a non resident french Mexican married to a us citizen only worked in the US and paid taxes in the us and now I am in the never never land.. Before you take a decision investigate, get hints on internet but check it with experts on your side , that will save you a lot of stress later. If you are a non reisent without US address you do not have access to some investments as well. Tal to the bankers there, talk to investments houses. check the its rules etc....
Just my advice.


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## citlali

also as we all have found out things change and where there are loopholes to rest in peace that they will be there for ever.


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## eastwind

Citlali, it's different for US citizens, we get taxed whether we have a US address or not, so having one doesn't make things worse as far as federal taxes go. In your case I think your accountant steered you badly.

For others:

State taxes are another thing - best advice for expats is to move to a state with zero income tax (FL, TX, WA, etc) and establish residency and voting rights there before moving overseas. Otherwise you'll be stuck in your old state, paying it's state income taxes, permanently. 

Of course the lower your income the less difference all this makes, and below the point at which you pay $0 taxes it doesn't make a monetary difference. 

There are also rules that let you avoid filing if your income is below a given threshold, though I don't know if all states have them for their state taxes. 

It's probably a good idea to file federal US taxes even if you don't owe anything, because things like those covid relief checks depended on you having filed. So if there are more of those giveaways in the future, having filed may turn out to be an advantage, at least in simplifying the claim process.

Citali also makes a good point about loopholes not being forever. That's a good reason for a US expat not to depend only on their US bank accounts but to open one in Mexico as well. I'd say that's not a high priority for recent arrivals, but it might be a good thing to get around to at some point after other things settle down. I didn't get one until after I bought a place, it wasn't really necessary while I was renting and it is easier to open them after you have permanent residency. But I think for permanent residents with property in mexico it makes sense to have at least one Mexican bank account. Makes paying bills lots easier.


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## citlali

eastwind I agreed live and learm
DO you know an account or tax lawyer that can help a non reident determined what the rules are for tem? I have been filing a w9 for 20 years in Mexico and now they are telling me to file a w8 but since my husband and I were filing jointly on a w9 I still need to file for this year and need to know what the rules are for w8 and w9 to make decision on the drawdown of my iras and that leaves me less than 30 days. I have search for qualified peope but the tax lawyers tell me to speak with an accountant the the accounts with tax lawyers and time is running out. SOme internet outfit seem qualified but I do not trust them and I cannot make a mistake on this one ias it is my last chance to file jointy and drsw down,using the joint tax rules..any hint would be appreciated. Yes I really screwed up getting a us address


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## eastwind

I'm afraid I don't. Mango Tango might. I have (on advice) been not filing mexican taxes, but now that I have an RFC I think I will need to, because of the 'regime' chosen for it. My lawyer has an accountant she refers people to, and I was planning to go to him at some point. Maybe I should get with it and see him before the year runs out!

I had never heard of W-8 or W-9 forms, but I looked them up. I don't see a direct connection between the IRA (on which you're going to have to pay tax) and your business income here (which I gather you use W-8 to tell the US you don't owe income taxes on). I noticed that it says you only file W-9 once - it's permanent until something changes.

I'm pretty sure that unless you take a lump-sum 100% distribution this year, you will have to keep filing US income taxes every year that you take distributions. They'll hit you with some kind of withholding on the distribution, and you file taxes and pay them what you actually owe them and get the rest of the withholding as a refund. Having a US bank account to deposit the refund to will be very helpful, but you might be able to specify a non-US bank. Paper check problems we've read about here.

So if you have to keep filing US taxes, I wonder if it's correct that you will switch to a W-9 next year, or whether you'll just have to keep filing the particular W-8 variety you've been doing. (Which one was that, I can read up on it if you like).

A lot of people do RMDs at the lowest rate possible to stretch the thing out as much as possible. That also can minimize taxes, since the more years you spread it over the more chunks of $10,275 there are that get taxed at 10%.

But that might not be worth it in your case, just due to the tax hassles. If you decide to take the money out faster, you can do any amount you like between the RMD and the max value, it's not an either-or. If, for example, your RMD forces you to take an amount that falls in the 12% tax bracket, then one option is take out the maximum amount that falls in the 12% bracket, $41,775. You'd keep doing that every year (the brackets go up every year) until the IRA is depleted, and you never pay more than 12% on any of the money.

If your RMD falls just above the threshold for the 22% bracket, then I'd just take the RMD because 22% is a lot more than 12% - so your strategy would be to minimize the amount taxed at 22% by taking the RMD. 12-22% is a big step up, so it changes the thinking. But then if you'd have to take a lot more than that, I'd probably go ahead and max out the bracket or even the 24% bracket since 22% and 24% aren't much different. It's hard to give specific advice not knowing what the balance is.

For people with really big IRAs, there's a thing where you can give money from it to charity, and what you give counts against the RMD, yet doesn't incur taxes.
See here: https://www.kiplinger.com/article/r...03-faqs-about-giving-your-rmd-to-charity.html

I think that limit went up to 110,000 and the article is old, because I read 110,000 somewhere else.

If you're certain to have more money than you need in your future years, and are planning to leave an estate to charity anyway, then using this feature is a tax-advantageous way to get the charities the most money and the US govt less. So if you don't need the IRA money at all, yet the RMD is less than $100,000, then you could do a 100k or 110k donation from it every year and empty it out quickly without ever having to pay any tax on that money.

2022 schedule for single filers:


$0 – $10,27510%$10,276 – $41,775$1,027.50 + 12% of the amount over $10,275$41,776 – $89,075$4,807.50 + 22% of the amount over $41,775$89,076 – $170,050$15,213.50 + 24% of the amount over $89,075$170,051 – $215,950$34,647.50 + 32% of the amount over $170,050$215,951 – $539,900$49,335.50 + 35% of the amount over $215,950$539,901 or more$162,718 + 37% of the amount over $539,900


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