# The Novelty of living in Spain



## Dionysus (Jan 4, 2016)

My wife and I were discussing pros/cons of Spain, we are leaning towards it. However, I began to question how long the honeymoon lasts.

With this in mind, how long did it take for the novelty of living in Spain to wear off, and how did you realize it? I'm not asking if you dislike it, I'm more interested to know when/if the transition to 'life as usual, but in Spain' kicked in. Thanks.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Dionysus said:


> My wife and I were discussing pros/cons of Spain, we are leaning towards it. However, I began to question how long the honeymoon lasts.
> 
> With this in mind, how long did it take for the novelty of living in Spain to wear off, and how did you realize it? I'm not asking if you dislike it, I'm more interested to know when/if the transition to 'life as usual, but in Spain' kicked in. Thanks.


I think a lot depends on how much of a life change it is for you, mainly thinking about the people who retire here never having lived abroad before. That has got to be a massive change and supposedly for the better, so maybe the honeymoon period lasts longer than a 4 people family who come to work and put two kids into full time education which must lead to a massive paper trail and numerous :frusty::frusty::frusty: situations if you don't speak the language.
As Jojo always says, a lot of life is the same shiit, different country...
Maybe it's up to you whether the "honeymoon period"lasts longer or not. As a working woman, I'm not sure I want to live an eternal honeymoon, or maybe I'm just jealous of those who are still living it. Hmmm, I don't know


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Living in Spain is...living. We're still in the same continent (we Europeans) and we're all on the same planet.
We do the same things but with a lot more sunshine, at least we Northern Europeans.
So for me, no 'honeymoon' and certainly no novelty.
Just quiet enjoyment which so far hasn't diminished in any way.


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## The Skipper (Nov 26, 2014)

One year past the seven-year itch and still in love with Spain. Can't believe I will ever want a divorce!


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## Dionysus (Jan 4, 2016)

*Try 4!*



Pesky Wesky said:


> I think a lot depends on how much of a life change it is for you, mainly thinking about the people who retire here never having lived abroad before. That has got to be a massive change and supposedly for the better, so maybe the honeymoon period lasts longer than a 4 people family who come to work and put two kids into full time education which must lead to a massive paper trail and numerous :frusty::frusty::frusty: situations if you don't speak the language.
> As Jojo always says, a lot of life is the same shiit, different country...
> Maybe it's up to you whether the "honeymoon period"lasts longer or not. As a working woman, I'm not sure I want to live an eternal honeymoon, or maybe I'm just jealous of those who are still living it. Hmmm, I don't know


Thanks PW... if you are the one who has two kids to put through school, well, we've got four! All of ours are fluent in Spanish, reading and writing, so it may not be so tough. Also, my wife grew up there until the age of 10, and we visit at least every other year. I am not at retirement age, but am not early, or mid-career either; early retirement is what I'd call it.


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## 90199 (Mar 21, 2010)

After many years it is still magical living here on the Meridian Isle of El Hierro, every day is different and full of pleasant surprises.

Here is home.


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## jimenato (Nov 21, 2009)

I never got used to it - every day was like waking up somewhere strange and alien and was a huge adventure.

I'm on record on here (many years ago) as saying that the day it became 'home' was the day I would move on. 

I liked being a foreigner in a foreign country.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

jimenato said:


> I never got used to it - every day was like waking up somewhere strange and alien and was a huge adventure.
> 
> I'm on record on here (many years ago) as saying that the day it became 'home' was the day I would move on.
> 
> I liked being a foreigner in a foreign country.


I know what you mean, (I still enjoy a feeling of a certain "difference") but I'm not sure that the honeymoon period being over = thinking of a place as home


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Now in our eighth year and it is still a little bit of paradise here on earth. But much depends on why you move, where you move to, how you manage your financial situation, whether you know the language (a little, a lot or just enough to get a couple of beers in the nearest bar), your attitude towards living with a load of foreigners, whether you are content as a family unit (if you aren't, all the little discrepancies will magnify as soon as something here gets you down) and how you survive/live here in Spain.

One of the most important things is to make sure that you can live here well within your means - constant worry about how you will manage if the exchange rate knocks a few Euros off your income and upsets your budget, life here can be miserable and you will be looking to see how you can afford to go back to UK.

If you are one of those who needs a lot of stress in your life in order to function, then Spain is not for you unless you go to one of the big cities such as Madrid or Barcelona. Life here for most of us is relatively stress-free and that is one of the reasons, Spaniards, in the main, live longer -average age of decease here, in this village, is between 85 and 95.


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## Rabbitcat (Aug 31, 2014)

Good advice Baldi, -solid finances, grasp of Spanish and a good personal life are essentials-and as we are skint, don't know the lingo and my wife hates me -it's prob best I don't move to Spain


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

I think it took two or three years before I accepted that things I thought were "quaint" (like the post office not selling stamps) were actually a pain in the a**e. Just because some things are different here doesn't mean they are better.

However the majority of things definitely ARE better and I wouldn't want to live anywhere else.


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## thrax (Nov 13, 2008)

I've always thought that I live on planet Earth and a real challenge would be Mars. Seriously, I don't think I will ever quite get used to Spain. I once said to a friend in UK that Spain has so many fabulous locations and sadly I am only aware of a small fraction of them. Luckily I happen to live in one. One thing for me that I only became aware of when I moved here is how do people really feel about their country of birth. I mean, do they really know it or are they simply blasé because they've lived there all their lives. Moving to a different country, rather than holidaying there, open up a whole new perspective which I suspect many folk never realise in their home country. Ramble over.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

thrax said:


> I've always thought that I live on planet Earth and a real challenge would be Mars. Seriously, I don't think I will ever quite get used to Spain. I once said to a friend in UK that Spain has so many fabulous locations and sadly I am only aware of a small fraction of them. Luckily I happen to live in one. One thing for me that I only became aware of when I moved here is how do people really feel about their country of birth. I mean, do they really know it or are they simply blasé because they've lived there all their lives.* Moving to a different country, rather than holidaying there, open up a whole new perspective which I suspect many folk never realise in their home country. *Ramble over.


How true. One of the things I've enjoyed most about living here is learning about the local history, customs and wildlife. I went to lunch today with someone who's lived here all her life and she said I knew much more than she did! But to her, picking wild asparagus and getting one's daily bread from a 200-year-old _horno de leña_ is normal everyday stuff. To me it's still exciting and exotic.


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## EdofWigan (Jun 28, 2015)

I am not an aspirational climber, as Mr Locks ( ^ ) puts it so well, as long as I do not worry about the _ 'Basic Necessities of Life'_ I am a pretty contented bear.

When I end my _'Rush Rush, Hurry Hurry'_, life here in the UK, I will have the time to learn new things, painting, drawing, relaxing and well, basic chilling. These will be added to my love of cooking, entertaining (food), walking, music and laughing with friends (new & old)

After spending nearly 52 years of... well it has been fun, I recon I have another 30 years to practice the ancient art of chilling with friends and a smile on my face.


...smoke me a kipper, I will be in Spain for breakfast (well 'A' breakfast)

_(Terms & Conditions apply, see website for further details)_


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## EdofWigan (Jun 28, 2015)

thrax said:


> I've always thought that I live on planet Earth and a real challenge would be Mars. Seriously, I don't think I will ever quite get used to Spain. I once said to a friend in UK that Spain has so many fabulous locations and sadly I am only aware of a small fraction of them. Luckily I happen to live in one. One thing for me that I only became aware of when I moved here is how do people really feel about their country of birth. I mean, do they really know it or are they simply blasé because they've lived there all their lives. Moving to a different country, rather than holidaying there, open up a whole new perspective which I suspect many folk never realise in their home country. Ramble over.


Oh! I so wish i could do more, much more than just, simply 'Like' this post. (that does _*'Rep Power'*_ actually mean? can I give you some?)


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## thrax (Nov 13, 2008)

EdofWigan said:


> Oh! I so wish i could do more, much more than just, simply 'Like' this post. (that does _*'Rep Power'*_ actually mean? can I give you some?)


Thank you. A reply like that means quite a lot. Rep power was something used before 'likes' became available and I always thought of it more of meaning how good you were as a traveling salesman. But what you said is more than enough.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

EdofWigan said:


> Oh! I so wish i could do more, much more than just, simply 'Like' this post. (that does _*'Rep Power'*_ actually mean? can I give you some?)


What you have to do is Click on the "Thank" button and post a comment, then that person's Reputation Power goes up, just as yours has!


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

thrax said:


> I've always thought that I live on planet Earth and a real challenge would be Mars. Seriously, I don't think I will ever quite get used to Spain. I once said to a friend in UK that Spain has so many fabulous locations and sadly I am only aware of a small fraction of them. Luckily I happen to live in one. One thing for me that I only became aware of when I moved here is how do people really feel about their country of birth. I mean, do they really know it or are they simply blasé because they've lived there all their lives. Moving to a different country, rather than holidaying there, open up a whole new perspective which I suspect many folk never realise in their home country. Ramble over.


I think the problem usually is the fact that people only go to or take an interest in the basic holidaymaking places instead of going out and finding out more about where they are and searching out the little places and things that most people are unaware of. Since we have been here I have taken a lot of interest in our local Cultural Studies group and Pueblos de España.

What we have found here, that many people, other than most of the locals, are not aware of, is the salt beds where salt water comes out of the ground into a pond where the water evaporates and they collect the salt; also what happens to the aqueous matter that is expressed with the oil when they press the olives - it goes into ponds where any remaining oleaceous matter floats to the top and is skimmed off and, apart from what is used locally (for soap making,) is sold to the soap and perfume industry.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

baldilocks said:


> I think the problem usually is the fact that people only go to or take an interest in the basic holidaymaking places instead of going out and finding out more about where they are and searching out the little places and things that most people are unaware of.
> .


It's not a 'problem'.. People come to Spain for their own reasons and enjoy in their own way.
I once saw a programme about retired Brits somewhere on the Costa Brava. They were having a great time, playing bowls, going to Bingo at the British Legion, having Sunday roasts at the Darby and Joan Club. They spoke no Spanish, the only Spanish people they came across were waiters and they watched UK tv and read UK papers.
I made some snotty comment and Sandra pointed out, quite rightly, that these old people were truly enjoying their lives, carrying on their accustomed lifestyles but with decent weather.
And as most retired folk will have spent up to forty years of their lives working, maybe in boring, soul- destroying jobs, I can't see why enjoying 'takng an interest in the basic holidaymaking places' should be a 'problem' for anyone.


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## Maureen47 (Mar 27, 2014)

We have been here since Nov 2015 and I havent felt there was a novelty , it just felt like this is where my home is now. All the usual things have to be done , cleaning , washing , shopping etc but in a wonderful environment with much better weather. I guess its the not working that is the biggest novelty and being able to what I want with my time when I want to , thats great and dont think after having a stressful demanding job that will ever wear off !


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## Roy C (Sep 29, 2012)

mrypg9 said:


> It's not a 'problem'.. People come to Spain for their own reasons and enjoy in their own way.
> I once saw a programme about retired Brits somewhere on the Costa Brava. They were having a great time, playing bowls, going to Bingo at the British Legion, having Sunday roasts at the Darby and Joan Club. They spoke no Spanish, the only Spanish people they came across were waiters and they watched UK tv and read UK papers.
> I made some snotty comment and Sandra pointed out, quite rightly, that these old people were truly enjoying their lives, carrying on their accustomed lifestyles but with decent weather.
> And as most retired folk will have spent up to forty years of their lives working, maybe in boring, soul- destroying jobs, I can't see why enjoying 'takng an interest in the basic holidaymaking places' should be a 'problem' for anyone.


I think Sandra had that spot on. I would probably have reacted the same as you even though my own Spanish is very limited to say the least and when people ask me what part of Spain we are moving to I always say , it's not the Blackpool in the sun part of Spain but really that is a wrong thing to say. I might never learn Spanish ( I hope I do, English is difficult enough). Live and let live is a mantra I should try and follow.


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## jimenato (Nov 21, 2009)

maureen47 said:


> ... I guess its the not working that is the biggest novelty and being able to what I want with my time when I want to , thats great and dont think after having a stressful demanding job that will ever wear off !


I agree with that. It's the same now that we've moved back to the UK - doing what you want, when you want is pretty good anywhere.

I found it very easy to do precisely nothing in Spain. 

It's a bit more difficult here in the UK - I don't know why. 

I don't have to do anything I just feel that I ought to be occupying my time fruitfully. 

Odd. :confused2:


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Roy C said:


> I think Sandra had that spot on. I would probably have reacted the same as you even though my own Spanish is very limited to say the least and when people ask me what part of Spain we are moving to I always say , it's not the Blackpool in the sun part of Spain but really that is a wrong thing to say. I might never learn Spanish ( I hope I do, English is difficult enough). Live and let live is a mantra I should try and follow.


When we first got here it was such a change from the colder climes of Central Europe...we used to strip off and lie in the sun by the pool most days in the summer months. We had no desire to go rooting around to discover the highways and byways of the village or poke around its history. In fact, apart from walking the dogs and shopping we didn't go far from the house.
If we hadn't had a pool or nice garden we would have gone to the beach and slathered ourselves in suncream. We read 'literature' whilst lying in the sun, not magazines, so I guess that made our habits more acceptable to the discerning..
Then the novelty of that wore off and we both got more involved in community activities. Then we gradually got out and about more, all in our own time.
As for language...I've just spent the morning at the PSOE HQ where people drop in with their problems.. A very old lady dressed in black came in, very distressed, waving an official letter she didn't understand and then an old man with a problem relating to the revaluation of his house...Thankfully my Spanish colleagues were there as I doubt I understood more than 70% of the very animated Andaluz diatribes.
I'm being nominated for a position on the Executive Committee, Gawd knows how I'll manage. I can say what I want, more or less, but it's the understanding..


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## AllHeart (Nov 22, 2013)

Dionysus, I don't know if you're talking about culture shock, because the honeymoon phase is over is a stage in culture shock. I read up a lot on this model, and it's helped me incredibly in adjusting. Here's one of my favourite articles on the subject:

_Culture shock has three to five phases, depending on which source you read. Also, depending on factors such as how big the cultural difference is between your home and your new location, and how long one is away from home, a person may or may not experience all the phases.

The Honeymoon Phase: This is a fun time. Everything is great, exciting, and new. You love the differences, meeting new people, tasting new foods, seeing different architecture, doing new things, working in your new job. This phase can last days, weeks, or months.

The Honeymoon is Over Phase: During this phase, you're noticing differences, even slight differences, and typically not in a good way. You don't like people's attitudes, you have had enough of the food and just want mom's cooking, you miss your TV program at such-and-such a time, you don't like the water, it's too hot/cold, life is too fast/slow, things are so much "better" at home, they celebrate the wrong holidays, and so forth. There's no set time when this begins — with some people, it can be within days, with others, months. During this phase, a person often feels anxious, angry, frustrated, sad, and/or irritable. A person may withdraw and have difficulty concentrating at their new job.

The Negotiation Phase: As above, there is no set time in which this begins. Essentially, during this phase you decide whether you will succumb to negativity or negotiate past it to make the most of your experience. If you're successful, you regain your sense of perspective, balance, and humour, and move on to the next phase.

The All's Well, or Everything is OK Phase: Those who arrive at this phase feel more at home with the differences in the new culture. Depending on how big a change a person has experienced, the person may feel as if the culture isn't in fact new, but that they belong, or the person may not exactly feel part of the culture, but they're comfortable enough with it to enjoy the differences and challenges. Negative feelings are minimized. The person doesn't have to be in love with the new country (as in the honeymoon phase), but they can navigate it without unwarranted anxiety, negativity, and criticism.

The Reverse Culture Shock Phase: Sure enough, this can happen! Once a person has become accustomed to the way things are done in a different country, that person can go through the same series of culture shock phases when they return home._

From here: What is Culture Shock, and What Can I do to Avoid it?

There are tips in that article as to how to deal with culture shock.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

We are, as mentioned before, in our eighth year here and even now we still pinch ourselves because we still find it difficult to come to terms with the fact that we actually live here.


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## AllHeart (Nov 22, 2013)

baldilocks said:


> We are, as mentioned before, in our eighth year here and even now we still pinch ourselves because we still find it difficult to come to terms with the fact that we actually live here.


Like the article says at the beginning of my quote, _"Also, depending on factors such as how big the cultural difference is between your home and your new location, and how long one is away from home, a person may or may not experience all the phases."_


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

jimenato said:


> I agree with that. It's the same now that we've moved back to the UK - doing what you want, when you want is pretty good anywhere.
> 
> I found it very easy to do precisely nothing in Spain.
> 
> ...


After that initial phase of just taking in the sun I got back to doing more or less what I did in the UK. 
I've always found it hard to do nothing for any extended period of time.
We do spend a lot more time with friends than we did in the UK but then we were both working and had little time for much else.
The best year I've had since leaving the UK over ten years ago now was that first idyllic year in Prague but on reflection I think it was so good mainly because I didn't have to work every day.
That would have been a great feeling wherever we had moved to, Siberia or Singapore, Prague or Peru.


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## EdofWigan (Jun 28, 2015)

Over the years, I have traveled quite a bit, lived and worked in 10+ countries, outside the UK but now is, well fast approaching 'Me' time. My work has involved supporting others but my (planned) Spanish time will be about doing some of the things I want to do, it is really going to be about 'Me' time.

I hope this does not sound selfish but in a way, I guess it is. I want to do some serious 'Me' Time  (this will, of course involve old friends, from the UK ,new from Spain and a whole load of chilaxing)

My route from here to that point will not be rushed or direct, it is all about enjoying the journey, not rushing to a waving a flag.


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

jimenato said:


> I never got used to it - every day was like waking up somewhere strange and alien and was a huge adventure.
> 
> I'm on record on here (many years ago) as saying that the day it became 'home' was the day I would move on.
> 
> I liked being a foreigner in a foreign country.


Yep I understand that.................



mrypg9 said:


> It's not a 'problem'.. People come to Spain for their own reasons and enjoy in their own way.
> I once saw a programme about retired Brits somewhere on the Costa Brava. They were having a great time, playing bowls, going to Bingo at the British Legion, having Sunday roasts at the Darby and Joan Club. They spoke no Spanish, the only Spanish people they came across were waiters and they watched UK tv and read UK papers.
> I made some snotty comment and Sandra pointed out, quite rightly, that these old people were truly enjoying their lives, carrying on their accustomed lifestyles but with decent weather.
> And as most retired folk will have spent up to forty years of their lives working, maybe in boring, soul- destroying jobs, I can't see why enjoying 'takng an interest in the basic holidaymaking places' should be a 'problem' for anyone.


Totally agree....... too much snobbery around other peoples lifestyle choices, its not my cup of tea, but its not my life.

Been here two years next month, my life is the same but different. Get up, work on the old homestead, now go to work two days a week, walk the dogs, wash up, clean, do the food shop...... Same as UK but different


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## EdofWigan (Jun 28, 2015)

Without trying to appear to pseudo intellectual, contentment and therefore novelty, is as much about looking inward as outward, imho.

I have friends with £100+ salaries, who cascade from one trauma to another, like a slinky spring descending a never ending staircase. Chained by debt, for trinkets they will never enjoy, for more than a fleeting moment or be satisfied with. 

To Garden or Not to Garden, that may well be the question of the moment but we all need to dig deeper to find the real answer.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

AllHeart said:


> Dionysus, I don't know if you're talking about culture shock, because the honeymoon phase is over is a stage in culture shock. I read up a lot on this model, and it's helped me incredibly in adjusting. Here's one of my favourite articles on the subject:
> 
> _Culture shock has three to five phases, depending on which source you read. Also, depending on factors such as how big the cultural difference is between your home and your new location, and how long one is away from home, a person may or may not experience all the phases.
> _


I enjoyed reading that quote and recognize all of those phases, although not necessarily in myself! I think I missed out on the honeymoon is over phase. I've lived in two other countries (I also had a brief stay in the USA of a few months that I wouldn't count as living in another country) and in both I had, or am having in the case of Spain, a great time. But what's not to like? I fell in love in both countries, made wonderful friends in both places, had work and enough money to live comfortably...
However, go into any TEFL academy and you'll usually find someone in one of those stages
I,d also add another possible stage which could perhaps be _the adultation phase. _This is where the "adopted" country becomes the bees knees. Everything is better in the new country, the weather, the people, the culture, the house, the lifestyle... It is usually a stage that is like a mirage - it's not really true, although I suppose it could be depending on what your previous life was like.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

maureen47 said:


> We have been here since Nov 2015 and I havent felt there was a novelty , it just felt like this is where my home is now. All the usual things have to be done , cleaning , washing , shopping etc but in a wonderful environment with much better weather. I guess its the not working that is the biggest novelty and being able to what I want with my time when I want to , thats great and dont think after having a stressful demanding job that will ever wear off !


As you say the main change may be the fact that you've left a demanding job, so the honeymoon factor as referred to by the OP, for you and many more, is not to do with the Spain Factor, but the Retirement factor or at least the difference between working or not. The honeymoon period could just as easily apply in the UK to someone who retired to Weston Super Mare (Many people from Birmingham for example did in the past, not so sure now).


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Pesky Wesky said:


> I enjoyed reading that quote and recognize all of those phases, although not necessarily in myself! I think I missed out on the honeymoon is over phase. I've lived in two other countries (I also had a brief stay in the USA of a few months that I wouldn't count as living in another country) and in both I had, or am having in the case of Spain, a great time. But what's not to like? I fell in love in both countries, made wonderful friends in both places, had work and enough money to live comfortably...
> However, go into any TEFL academy and you'll usually find someone in one of those stages
> I,d also add another possible stage which could perhaps be _the adultation phase. _This is where the "adopted" country becomes the bees knees. Everything is better in the new country, the weather, the people, the culture, the house, the lifestyle... It is usually a stage that is like a mirage - it's not really true, although I suppose it could be depending on what your previous life was like.



The last paragraph, especially the last sentence, gets to the heart of things.
One of the most perceptive and true comments made and relates to quite a few past posts on this Forum.
This phase can be followed by the ' intense disappointment' phase, often characterised by blaming the ' adopted' country for the disappointment and not the adulator's misplaced over- enthusiasm.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Dionysus said:


> Thanks PW... if you are the one who has two kids to put through school, well, we've got four! All of ours are fluent in Spanish, reading and writing, so it may not be so tough. Also, my wife grew up there until the age of 10, and we visit at least every other year. I am not at retirement age, but am not early, or mid-career either; early retirement is what I'd call it.


No, that isn't or wasn't my case. My only daughter was born in Spain and is, like her father, Spanish. And I'm not retired, not early retired although atm I find myself not working as I'm looking after my aged father in the UK.
This is a situation that quite a few people on the forum have found themselves in (BTW has Lynn R been posting lately?) and it's not nice, I can tell you.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

mrypg9 said:


> The last paragraph, especially the last sentence, gets to the heart of things.
> One of the most perceptive and true comments made and relates to quite a few past posts on this Forum.
> This phase can be followed by the ' intense disappointment' phase, often characterised by blaming the ' adopted' country for the disappointment and not the adulator's misplaced over- enthusiasm.


But the "intense disappointment phase" only occurs if things start to go "pear-shaped" [where did that expression originate] and is largely avoided by most people who came to Spain fully prepared and with their eyes wide open.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

baldilocks said:


> But the "intense disappointment phase" only occurs if things start to go "pear-shaped" [where did that expression originate] and is largely avoided by most people who came to Spain fully prepared and with their eyes wide open.


That's true and that's why I have an intense aversion to the phrase 'Spanish dream'.
As PW implied, it can be more of a reflection on the user's unsatisfactory situation than the reality of life in Spain.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

mrypg9 said:


> That's true and that's why I have an intense aversion to the phrase 'Spanish dream'.
> .


But those who make a success of their move to Spain and are fully content and happy with their decision and choices regarding, lifestyle, home, location, etc. may well claim to be living their "Spanish dream"


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## jimenato (Nov 21, 2009)

Pesky Wesky said:


> As you say the main change may be the fact that you've left a demanding job, so the honeymoon factor as referred to by the OP, for you and many more, is not to do with the Spain Factor, but the Retirement factor or at least the difference between working or not. The honeymoon period could just as easily apply in the UK to someone who retired to Weston Super Mare (Many people from Birmingham for example did in the past, not so sure now).


Yup.

Our lives changed for the better immeasurably in 2000 when we finished working and ended up by chance in Spain but I'm pretty sure it was the finishing working bit that was the more significant.

Weston Super Mare is where we are now and we are enjoying life the same as ever. The beer helps. You can even drink two types of Hobgoblin in one pub and that's got to be good - huh Pesky?


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

baldilocks said:


> But those who make a success of their move to Spain and are fully content and happy with their decision and choices regarding, lifestyle, home, location, etc. may well claim to be living their "Spanish dream"


If it floats their boat. 
But why, I wonder , the 'Spanish' dream? Not the French, Italian , German, Polish etc. dream...
That's what intrigues me. Do Swedes, Germans and other foreigners who come to live in Spain use that phrase, I wonder?
If not, what is it about Brits that makes them 'dream' of sun, sand, sea? We have those things in the UK, without the sun, admittedly....so it must be a weather thing.
If it refers to that idyllic state known as 'retirement' (I used to dream a lot about that, usually with a lost, wistful expression on my face as I floated off to a realm where alarm clocks did not hold sway over life) then that can be enjoyed, beside the sea even, in Clacton or Southport.
It's got to be the weather.
And yes, there was an expression 'the American dream' but that referred to the understandable desire of late nineteenth century Eastern and Southern Europeans to escape their lives of grinding poverty and persecution. I don't think anyone uses that phrase of the US any more and besides, there's no comparison with Bert from Bromley or Mary from Mablethorpe planning relocation to the Costas.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

jimenato said:


> Yup.
> 
> Our lives changed for the better immeasurably in 2000 when we finished working and ended up by chance in Spain but I'm pretty sure it was the finishing working bit that was the more significant.
> QUOTE]
> ...


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

My thoughts on this are that when you're in England, its all rushing around, traffic jams, grey, cold, dark, working long hours. Getting home to housework, kids, shopping, taxes, bills, no time, responsibilities, everyone seems stressed and miserable, no one looks up when they're rushing around............. The idea of moving to Spain is that its always sunny, you only need to work to cover your (low) household bills and enough for a few drinks. The rest of the time you'll be sitting by the pool, on the beach or wandering around Mediterranean markets and quiet, pretty little pueblos..... It'll be like being on holiday everyday!!??

The grass is always greener - until you look deeper and realise its all the same, but in Spain the weather is better in the summer - thats what I mean when I bang on about the "same sh1t, different place" Living in Spain is nothing like being on holiday there.

Jo xxx


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## Calas felices (Nov 29, 2007)

"its all rushing around" "the weather is better in summer" for some maybe but there are those who daren't go out during the day in summer and have to venture out in the evening because it is so hot and humid. It depends where you are and what you like. Not everyone likes the sun including a lot of the Spanish!!


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Calas felices said:


> "its all rushing around" "the weather is better in summer" for some maybe but there are those who daren't go out during the day in summer and have to venture out in the evening because it is so hot and humid. It depends where you are and what you like. Not everyone likes the sun including a lot of the Spanish!!


I agree - my children hated it, especially my daughter. I was generalising about why people think they want to live "the spanish dream" 

Jo xxx


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

mrypg9 said:


> If it floats their boat.
> But why, I wonder , the 'Spanish' dream? Not the French, Italian , German, Polish etc. dream...
> That's what intrigues me. Do Swedes, Germans and other foreigners who come to live in Spain use that phrase, I wonder?
> If not, what is it about Brits that makes them 'dream' of sun, sand, sea? We have those things in the UK, without the sun, admittedly....so it must be a weather thing.
> ...


Weather certainly helped - I can't abide being cold but you can keep the sand and sea. As for work, I carried on beyond 65 and didn't mind getting up at 4 am (the world is nice and fresh at that hour before everybody else gets up and spoils it.) 

For me Spain is the people, their warmth and friendliness; the relaxed attitude and little or no stress; different scenery and living in the mountains; lower cost of living which also reduces stress. OK there are little irritations such as the power going off and on (a UPS solves that), the guy who runs Correos gone off to breakfast when I walk down there with a parcel to post and there is no bar close by for me to pass the time with a café con leche; other people's dogs that crap everywhere, when we pick after ours, etc.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

baldilocks said:


> Weather certainly helped - I can't abide being cold but you can keep the sand and sea. As for work, I carried on beyond 65 and didn't mind getting up at 4 am (the world is nice and fresh at that hour before everybody else gets up and spoils it.)
> 
> For me Spain is the people, their warmth and friendliness; the relaxed attitude and little or no stress; different scenery and living in the mountains; lower cost of living which also reduces stress. OK there are little irritations such as the power going off and on (a UPS solves that), the guy who runs Correos gone off to breakfast when I walk down there with a parcel to post and there is no bar close by for me to pass the time with a café con leche; other people's dogs that crap everywhere, when we pick after ours, etc.


I found people generally friendly, warm and helpful in all the countries I've spent time in, apart perhaps from Central and Eastern Europe where decades of life under socialism made people wary of strangers. 
Canada in particular struck me as a very friendly place, maybe a bit too friendly for my taste, as I said to AllHeart. Same with Italy and Portugal.
I do appreciate the better weather, especially winter, autumn and spring. I love the sea, grew up beside it. We've just come back from a couple of hours walk with the dogs along an almost deserted beach. 
Our cost of living isn't much less than in the UK, not that we can make detailed comparisons as we live within what we can afford and know how much we can spend without having to watch every cent.
I can't really think of any irritations...apart from one, we pick up our mail from a central point at the end of the road and the postperson doesn't always look at the address before slinging letters into the boxes. Last week I opened a letter in my box assuming it was for me and found a detailed breakdown of a neighbour's state pension...


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## kalohi (May 6, 2012)

Calas felices said:


> "its all rushing around" "the weather is better in summer" for some maybe but there are those who daren't go out during the day in summer and have to venture out in the evening because it is so hot and humid. It depends where you are and what you like. Not everyone likes the sun including a lot of the Spanish!!


Totally agree - I hate the summer heat!


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## gus-lopez (Jan 4, 2010)

Quite a few people I have spoken with lately , who mostly are retired & have lived here for around 12 + years , have all been expressing the opinion that what once attracted them to Spain , slow pace, mañana attitude, the novelty of the nonsensical paperwork chase, the fact that it was like the UK 50 years ago,Etc; etc; are now all beginning to grate & annoy. If you are one of the people that can't be doing without working & have no interests or hobbies , don't drink /smoke/ socialise then it is going to be a struggle.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

gus-lopez said:


> If you are one of the people that can't be doing without working & have no interests or hobbies , don't drink /smoke/ socialise then it is going to be a struggle.


But then again if a person is as you have described above, it would be a struggle to find happiness anywhere, wouldn't it?


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

baldilocks said:


> Weather certainly helped - I can't abide being cold but you can keep the sand and sea. As for work, I carried on beyond 65 and didn't mind getting up at 4 am (the world is nice and fresh at that hour before everybody else gets up and spoils it.)
> 
> For me Spain is the people, their warmth and friendliness; the relaxed attitude and little or no stress; different scenery and living in the mountains; lower cost of living which also reduces stress. OK there are little irritations such as the power going off and on (a UPS solves that), the guy who runs Correos gone off to breakfast when I walk down there with a parcel to post and there is no bar close by for me to pass the time with a café con leche; other people's dogs that crap everywhere, when we pick after ours, etc.


Yes, however, that's not Spain, it's your corner of Spain which does sound wonderful to me.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Calas felices said:


> "its all rushing around" "the weather is better in summer" for some maybe but there are those who daren't go out during the day in summer and have to venture out in the evening because it is so hot and humid. It depends where you are and what you like. Not everyone likes the sun including a lot of the Spanish!!


I think that the concept of what the weather is like is key to the honeymoon idea. Many people love to toast in the midday sun on holiday. It's a different matter when you've got a job to go to, children to pick up from school for lunch, or paperwork to be done in 35+ degrees.


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## Justina (Jan 25, 2013)

*Spain*



baldilocks said:


> Weather certainly helped - I can't abide being cold but you can keep the sand and sea. As for work, I carried on beyond 65 and didn't mind getting up at 4 am (the world is nice and fresh at that hour before everybody else gets up and spoils it.)
> 
> For me Spain is the people, their warmth and friendliness; the relaxed attitude and little or no stress; different scenery and living in the mountains; lower cost of living which also reduces stress. OK there are little irritations such as the power going off and on (a UPS solves that), the guy who runs Correos gone off to breakfast when I walk down there with a parcel to post and there is no bar close by for me to pass the time with a café con leche; other people's dogs that crap everywhere, when we pick after ours, etc.


For me Spain is its people, their warmth and friendliness as you say.
I had a French/American friend to visit last weekend and after we had the dogs stretching their legs on la barrosa and we went up and sat on the wall of the prom and first it was smiles at the dogs, then if they had a dog then they would be introduced and then little toddlers being encouraged to give a couple of labs a pat.
My friend went home saying, but nobody in Grenoble says hola to me.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

jimenato said:


> Weston Super Mare is where we are now and we are enjoying life the same as ever. The beer helps. You can even drink two types of Hobgoblin in one pub and that's got to be good - huh Pesky?


I'd say that one of the best things you can do in WSM is drink a couple of real ale beers, Hobgoblin, Pedigree or any other really!


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Pesky Wesky said:


> But then again if a person is as you have described above, it would be a struggle to find happiness anywhere, wouldn't it?


Very true. I could live in the most beautiful, tranquil part of the globe in the most desirable house enjoying perfect weather but without my partner, Azor and Xena, friends, books and music I would be lost and miserable.
It takes more than Spain to create happiness, for me anyway.


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## Isobella (Oct 16, 2014)

Nowhere is perfect. The important thing is that you are happy wherever you decide to lay your hat. We have friends in the campo who love it, they are ageing, tugging gas bottles up umpteen steps, water intermittent, house is damp. My Idea of a nightmare but they are in their view living the dream. Some peoples dream may be to own a terrace house in Northampton. To me the most important thing is to have choices the most precious dream you can have, a lot don't.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Pesky Wesky said:


> I'd say that one of the best things you can do in WSM is drink a couple of real ale beers, Hobgoblin, Pedigree or any other really!


We often used to go to WSM for day trips when I was a child. It was very up- market in those days, 'select', I think the word was, more genteel afternoon tea amidst the potted palms than ale.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Isobella said:


> Nowhere is perfect. The important thing is that you are happy wherever you decide to lay your hat. We have friends in the campo who love it, they are ageing, tugging gas bottles up umpteen steps, water intermittent, house is damp. My Idea of a nightmare but they are in their view living the dream. Some peoples dream may be to own a terrace house in Northampton. To me the most important thing is to have choices the most precious dream you can have, a lot don't.


Did you know there is a Charles Rennie Mackintosh terracd house in Northampton? It's not open to thegeneral public but can be visited on request.
My friend David Thomas has access to the key, for some reason.


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## gus-lopez (Jan 4, 2010)

Pesky Wesky said:


> But then again if a person is as you have described above, it would be a struggle to find happiness anywhere, wouldn't it?


Apart from working!


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## Dionysus (Jan 4, 2016)

*Thanks...*



AllHeart said:


> Dionysus, I don't know if you're talking about culture shock, because the honeymoon phase is over is a stage in culture shock. I read up a lot on this model, and it's helped me incredibly in adjusting. Here's one of my favourite articles on the subject:
> 
> _Culture shock has three to five phases, depending on which source you read. Also, depending on factors such as how big the cultural difference is between your home and your new location, and how long one is away from home, a person may or may not experience all the phases.
> 
> ...


Thank you AllHeart, et al.

I have read everyone's posts to this point, all great words of wisdom here.

The reason I asked the question initially is because we have not made the move, obviously. It is one thing to be in love with the idea of living in Spain, than actually living in Spain.

My wife has fond memories of walking down the streets in El Masnou to the beach, her father used to go diving and collect mussels for dinner, once a week. She and her siblings played on the beach, walked to and from the beach without their parents. It appears like it was a great way to grow up.

We visit every other year, as tourists. And that is the word, 'tourists'. Living there and paying bills, taxes, etc., is not the same as leaving all our worries behind in the US, and going on holiday to Spain. Errr... that is Catalunya to my wife! 

The allure of "retiring" to Spain is great, but is it really so? I see many posts in other forums of people who absolutely hate Spain, 'regret ever moving there. Many spent all their money only to find they did not like it, or could not afford it. Many report that they are desperate, cannot get a good price for their homes, etc. in order to move back to their place of origin, usually the UK.

I realize some people's plans may not work out as they expected. Maybe they did not plan enough, maybe they did not save enough, or maybe they were captivated by the "dream" that they ignored the warning signs. I don't fault them, at least they can rest assured they lived their dream, instead of not ever knowing if it was possible.

There are no wrong, or right post here, and I thank you all for the information you have provided. It helps us gauge where we are at, and if this is something we want to do.

So far, the answer to our question is yes. Two weeks ago my wife and I visited the Norwegian Consulate here in Houston to submit the paperwork for our children to obtain their Norwegian citizenship.  This just makes it that much easier for us to make the move as they are part of the EEA and can live, work and study freely in European countries. I can join them on a reunification visa, or something like that. My kids will have their passports in about a months' time.

We have not been convinced to NOT go, so we still plan on making the move within two years! We discuss it nightly. We have been selling items which we can do without, and actually have people coming over tomorrow to purchase some furniture, and appliances. We are going to shed ourselves of things we can do without to make it easier once we make the final decision.

I/we will keep you posted!


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## EdofWigan (Jun 28, 2015)

The very best of luck


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## Rabbitcat (Aug 31, 2014)

Good post Dionysus

I do not buy into the " at least they gave it a go " argument, especially for those who,ended up in disastrous circumstances- surely they would have been better never giving it a go.

You are of course 100% correct that every persons circumstances are different and there are no right or wrong answers.

However imho, to mitigate at least against chances of ending up in dire straights my rule of thumb advice given the current economic circumstances in Spain is - don't move there if you need to work.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Dionysus said:


> Thank you AllHeart, et al.
> 
> I have read everyone's posts to this point, all great words of wisdom here.
> 
> ...


Good post!
I like the fact that you're planning your way here. A 22 year can jump on a plane and leave everything behind because there is usually little to leave at that age. A person with a family needs to have more of a plan and more of an idea of what they are coming to if it,s all going to work out.
I would say however that of course something unexpected will happen and so expect the unexpected which loosly translated means have some extra money around just in case.
I think you said your kids already have good Spanish, which will certainly help them along. If there's anyone in the family who doesn't, be realistic about "learning Spanish" A lot of adults never reach a high enough standard to be able to work in Spanish for example. They learn enough to get by, or even more, but using Spanish in meetings, to negotiate, to explain, to write a report is a different level alltogether.
If I were in the same position as you and had enough money, I'd find the kids school first and then rent somewhere in the area until I found the house that "worked".

Good luck and enjoy planning


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Rabbitcat said:


> Good post Dionysus
> 
> I do not buy into the " at least they gave it a go " argument, especially for those who,ended up in disastrous circumstances- surely they would have been better never giving it a go.
> 
> ...


Words of wisdom. I especially agree with the first sentence. Lives can be wrecked beyond repair by following the 'you only live once ' advice.
There is life beyond and without Spain and for some it's very hard to pick up the pieces after Spain, especially if you have nothing to return to in your home country.


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## EdofWigan (Jun 28, 2015)

Always follow the 7 P's


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## Helenameva (Aug 15, 2014)

There's a difference between adventurous and reckless. Of course nobody is saying be reckless, but to say don't move because there's no work is wrong too. There are so many variables with finding work (where you plan to live, what your skills are, what you are able or want to do) that a blanket statement like that is bad advice, imo. Also imo, non-natives have an advantage in lots of areas, especially English speaking ones. Not just teaching, but also international companies need native English speakers. So with planning, courage, a bit of luck and a Plan B, I would be more encouraging.


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## Rabbitcat (Aug 31, 2014)

My thinking in general is when you have a country with a faltering economy and very high unemployment I would not go there looking work- I stand by that belief


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## AllHeart (Nov 22, 2013)

Helenameva said:


> There's a difference between adventurous and reckless. Of course nobody is saying be reckless, but to say don't move because there's no work is wrong too. There are so many variables with finding work (where you plan to live, what your skills are, what you are able or want to do) that a blanket statement like that is bad advice, imo. Also imo, non-natives have an advantage in lots of areas, especially English speaking ones. Not just teaching, but also international companies need native English speakers. So with planning, courage, a bit of luck and a Plan B, I would be more encouraging.


I think it's prudent to warn people who don't know about the crisis and other obstacles in finding a job as a foreigner, as often people come on the forum having no idea. But once that is done, I too think it's inappropriate to act like border police and give a blanket statement that a person can't find a job in Spain. I know lots of foreigners here who are working.


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## Rabbitcat (Aug 31, 2014)

Who gave such a statement???


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## AllHeart (Nov 22, 2013)

You're hilarious!



Rabbitcat said:


> Who gave such a statement???





Rabbitcat said:


> My thinking in general is when you have a country with a faltering economy and very high unemployment I would not go there looking work- I stand by that belief


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## Rabbitcat (Aug 31, 2014)

Nowhere did I say that a person cannot find a job

However it's common sense that it's not the most prudent move to go looking for work in a country with very high unemployment


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## Dionysus (Jan 4, 2016)

*Work...*

Good comments regarding work. Yes, my wife and I are very aware of the unemployment situation in Spain. We are in a different situation than some in that we are able to retire early. I am 53 now, and she is 42. My wife still wants to work for a few more years, however.

Interestingly, my wife has hired an executive head hunting firm to find her a position, hopefully in Barcelona. Since we have a couple of years to work with, she is not in a hurry and her agent is happy about that, she can concentrate in one area. However, my wife was told that they could probably find her employment in Germany, and/or Switzerland within a couple of months should she/we decide to consider elsewhere. Having that Norwegian citizenship really helps her. We both hate the cold, however.  My wife also floated the idea of her leaving early, 6 months to a year if a job opportunity presented itself that is too good to pass up, so you never know what can happen, we could be there this year!

Thanks again.


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## EdofWigan (Jun 28, 2015)

I am not sure how to edit yet. So, just for clarity it was meant to be £100k+ salaries, lol


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

AllHeart said:


> You're hilarious!


What he actually said was that it was his *belief* that he *personally* would not come to Spain looking for work. That would be my general view too although as a retired person not looking for work, like other retired persons I have no direct personal experience of the job market.
Having said that, both Sandra and I have been offered jobs (Sod's Law) but without being precious, they weren't the kind of jobs we would have chosen to do- receptionist n an upmarket beauty salon in Marbella (Sandra) and part-time teaching (me) and certainly not at a salary we could have lived comfortably on.
I've also always said that if you are single, no dependents and haven't burnt your bridges back to the UK and aren't fussy about what work you do, it's worth a go.
But to relocate with family,no Spanish, no professional skills, low level of savings and no job offer.......not the most prudent course of action.
Of course people will get jobs, something I also point out. People die, retire, get promoted, move on...But if the above description fits you then you have less chance than most, which seems to me to be stating the bleedin' obvious.


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## Helenameva (Aug 15, 2014)

Rabbitcat said:


> Nowhere did I say that a person cannot find a job
> 
> However it's common sense that it's not the most prudent move to go looking for work in a country with very high unemployment


If you can only offer exactly the same as everyone else then of course it would be foolish, but that isn't always the case. High unemployment in some areas of a country and in certain work sectors doesn't mean there's nothing at all. 

I still think the advice you would give, 'given the current economic circumstances in Spain is - don't move there if you need to work' is wrong and a shame but I do understand why people are risk adverse, but being reckless or cautious is up to them, isn't it?


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

EdofWigan said:


> I am not sure how to edit yet. So, just for clarity it was meant to be £100k+ salaries, lol


For about 5-10 minutes after you have made a post, there will be an "Edit" button on your post, during that time you can edit. After that it stands, unedited.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Helenameva said:


> I still think the advice you would give, 'given the current economic circumstances in Spain is - don't move there if you need to work' is wrong and a shame but I do understand why people are risk adverse, but being reckless or cautious is up to them, isn't it?


Anyone who bases their decision to come or not to come to Spain to work on advice from an internet Forum is surely less than wise.


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## Helenameva (Aug 15, 2014)

mrypg9 said:


> Anyone who bases their decision to come or not to come to Spain to work on advice from an internet Forum is surely less than wise.


Agreed, and obvious! I don't think anyone has said anything different.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Helenameva said:


> Agreed, and obvious! I don't think anyone has said anything different.


Not so obvious judging from the number of enquiries that are made actually, and the reaction of people when they don't hear what they want to hear.

I agree that now maybe the information that should be given is that unemployment is still very high in most areas, and much higher than the UK, but as others say people do get jobs. 
However, the old phase "will turn my hand to anything" doesn't mean much in Spain today. You might get something, that's true, but would it be worth it? I'd have my doubts


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Not so obvious judging from the number of enquiries that are made actually, and the reaction of people when they don't hear what they want to hear.
> 
> I agree that now maybe the information that should be given is that unemployment is still very high in most areas, and much higher than the UK, but as others say people do get jobs.
> However, the old phase "will turn my hand to anything" doesn't mean much in Spain today. You might get something, that's true, but would it be worth it? I'd have my doubts


Yet they still come & seem to think that it is - though most don't last long

I've had lots of beginner students who when they are new to Spain, in an early lesson when we talk about jobs, describe themselves as doing what they did in the UK, often well paid & just as often having had years of training. They are often certain that they'll soon be doing the same here.

A few months down the line, those who _need_ to work are usually cleaning a few hours a week for not a lot, & certainly not getting enough work to cover autónomo payments.......

It does seem that the message is getting through though - the majority of younger people & families coming now have an offshore income


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## Helenameva (Aug 15, 2014)

*👹*



Pesky Wesky said:


> Not so obvious judging from the number of enquiries that are made actually, and the reaction of people when they don't hear what they want to hear.


Are you saying asking for advice on this forum is wrong? And who's to say they only ask here?


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## AllHeart (Nov 22, 2013)

Rabbitcat said:


> My thinking in general is when you have a country with a faltering economy and very high unemployment I would not go there looking work- I stand by that belief


Well, that's a blanket statement, especially since you didn't even specify a country.


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## AllHeart (Nov 22, 2013)

I find it really surprising the number of inquiries on this forum from people who are obviously at the very beginning of searching for answers in how to move to Spain. Some of the questions are so basic that I often wonder if people are coming on here to egg people on - especially questions about the chances of getting a job in Spain, being clueless about visa requirements, the current crisis, healthcare, language, job boards and all the other basic elements required for working in another country. But then I give them the benefit of the doubt and I put it down to them being in the beginning phase of finding answers. I think it's great how people help others on this forum to find so many answers. What's risky to one person isn't to another. What Spain means to one person is different to another. What one is willing to do to live in Spain is different to another. I'm just saying it would be nice if there were more people on here who would give job advice - other than the obvious and easy advice of not to even try.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

AllHeart said:


> I find it really surprising the number of inquiries on this forum from people who are obviously at the very beginning of searching for answers in how to move to Spain. Some of the questions are so basic that I often wonder if people are coming on here to egg people on - especially questions about the chances of getting a job in Spain, being clueless about visa requirements, the current crisis, healthcare, language, job boards and all the other basic elements required for working in another country. But then I give them the benefit of the doubt and I put it down to them being in the beginning phase of finding answers. I think it's great how people help others on this forum to find so many answers. What's risky to one person isn't to another. What Spain means to one person is different to another. What one is willing to do to live in Spain is different to another. I'm just saying it would be nice if there were more people on here who would give job advice - other than the obvious and easy advice of not to even try.


I think that many of us long-term forum members who have lived here, now, for a few years are well aware of the futility of the aspirations of many a would-be-expat/immigrant whose obvious lack of knowledge or research into even the most basic of things is so glaringly obvious as to think that provided they dress up their minimal CV to *us* will land them that 100k job, (to do just about anything) that we have been holding on to just waiting for them to show up and some even get quite snotty when we tell them that the jobs don't exist. Quite simply, the only job advice we can give is what we already do- that unless they are fluent in Spanish and they have some sort of a USP, is don't bother - there are millions of unemployed Spanish who are waiting for, and can easily do, those jobs when they appear.

As far as the "beginning phase" is concerned - for many of us there were no nice cosy forums for us to turn to when we were seeking out the possibilities for moving to another country - we had to do our research the hard way - seeking out books and other publications, going onto the websites of officialdom (often in languages other than our own) and sifting our ways through irrelevancies to find what we wanted to know, contacting people (after we had found them) and asking specific questions, etc.

As for giving job advice about jobs that don't exist and for which the enquirer is not qualified nor suitable...


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Helenameva said:


> Are you saying asking for advice on this forum is wrong? And who's to say they only ask here?


No I'm not saying the advice on this forum is wrong and I don't know what post you are thinking of to come to that conclusion.
Neither do I think people _necessarily _only ask on this forum although I do think there are _some _who only ask on forums, which to my way of thinking is not good preparation. 
And the _minority _seem to check what they need using official sites like these
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/living-in-spain

Entry Requirements

Just an impression I have


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## Helenameva (Aug 15, 2014)

Pesky Wesky said:


> No I'm not saying the advice on this forum is wrong and I don't know what post you are thinking of to come to that conclusion.
> Neither do I think people _necessarily _only ask on this forum although I do think there are _some _who only ask on forums, which to my way of thinking is not good preparation.
> And the _minority _seem to check what they need using official sites like these
> https://www.gov.uk/guidance/living-in-spain
> ...


I wrote asking for advice. It was in response to your post where you seemed surprised that people ask for advice on here.


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## AllHeart (Nov 22, 2013)

baldilocks said:


> I think that many of us long-term forum members who have lived here, now, for a few years are well aware of the futility of the aspirations of many a would-be-expat/immigrant whose obvious lack of knowledge or research into even the most basic of things is so glaringly obvious as to think that provided they dress up their minimal CV to *us* will land them that 100k job, (to do just about anything) that we have been holding on to just waiting for them to show up and some even get quite snotty when we tell them that the jobs don't exist. Quite simply, the only job advice we can give is what we already do- that unless they are fluent in Spanish and they have some sort of a USP, is don't bother - there are millions of unemployed Spanish who are waiting for, and can easily do, those jobs when they appear.


What's a USP?

Of course there is the ridiculous who you talk about here, and they need a slap in the face with the hard reality. Those are the members I'm talking about, where I often suspect they're egging us on.



baldilocks said:


> As far as the "beginning phase" is concerned - for many of us there were no nice cosy forums for us to turn to when we were seeking out the possibilities for moving to another country - we had to do our research the hard way - seeking out books and other publications, going onto the websites of officialdom (often in languages other than our own) and sifting our ways through irrelevancies to find what we wanted to know, contacting people (after we had found them) and asking specific questions, etc.


Your point? You had it harder than us? 



baldilocks said:


> As for giving job advice about jobs that don't exist and for which the enquirer is not qualified nor suitable...


Of course I'm not talking about jobs that don't exist or pumping up unqualified people. There are forums that provide this information. They provide the stark reality of the obstacles (like we do here) as well as the possibility of finding work. It's a balance. I'd like to see more of that here. It provides a lot of interesting discussion. Like for example what Xabiachica is talking about - working lower down on the totem pole, which is typical of foreigners.


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## Helenameva (Aug 15, 2014)

baldilocks said:


> I think that many of us long-term forum members who have lived here, now, for a few years are well aware of the futility of the aspirations of many a would-be-expat/immigrant whose obvious lack of knowledge or research into even the most basic of things is so glaringly obvious as to think that provided they dress up their minimal CV to *us* will land them that 100k job, (to do just about anything) that we have been holding on to just waiting for them to show up and some even get quite snotty when we tell them that the jobs don't exist. Quite simply, the only job advice we can give is what we already do- that unless they are fluent in Spanish and they have some sort of a USP, is don't bother - there are millions of unemployed Spanish who are waiting for, and can easily do, those jobs when they appear.
> 
> As far as the "beginning phase" is concerned - for many of us there were no nice cosy forums for us to turn to when we were seeking out the possibilities for moving to another country - we had to do our research the hard way - seeking out books and other publications, going onto the websites of officialdom (often in languages other than our own) and sifting our ways through irrelevancies to find what we wanted to know, contacting people (after we had found them) and asking specific questions, etc.
> 
> As for giving job advice about jobs that don't exist and for which the enquirer is not qualified nor suitable...


But there are jobs out there that locals can't do. Locals aren't native English speakers. That can open doors in itself, couple it with other skill sets, the right location and a bit of luck and you're in. I know, it's what happened to me. I know I'm not anything special, my Spanish isn't fluent, nor do I have a USP, but also I know that not everybody can do my job, I have qualifications and experience, and the all important English. So to say there's nothing don't bother, is wrong. My opinion of course.


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## Helenameva (Aug 15, 2014)

Allheart - USP = Unique Selling Point


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

AllHeart said:


> I find it really surprising the number of inquiries on this forum from people who are obviously at the very beginning of searching for answers in how to move to Spain. Some of the questions are so basic that I often wonder if people are coming on here to egg people on - especially questions about the chances of getting a job in Spain, being clueless about visa requirements, the current crisis, healthcare, language, job boards and all the other basic elements required for working in another country. But then I give them the benefit of the doubt and I put it down to them being in the beginning phase of finding answers. I think it's great how people help others on this forum to find so many answers. What's risky to one person isn't to another. What Spain means to one person is different to another. What one is willing to do to live in Spain is different to another. I'm just saying it would be nice if there were more people on here who would give job advice - other than the obvious and easy advice of not to even try.


I know what you mean. In the past I think some of us have come down like a ton of bricks on some posters, but usually with those that really seemed to have little idea of, well just about anything. 
Now, Spain _seems _to be in a better position, but one look at the stats will tell you that Spain's unemployment figures are worse far worse than the UKs
http://www.elmundo.es/grafico/economia/2014/10/24/544a3a98268e3ece028b456d.html://
That can't be ignored.

But yes, one person's risk is another's adventure etc etc 
Another axiom might be _if advice is asked for it should be accepted if not followed
_


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Helenameva said:


> I wrote asking for advice. It was in response to your post where you seemed surprised that people ask for advice on here.


Did I say that?
If I did I didn't mean to. Seems more like AllHearts post to me


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## EdofWigan (Jun 28, 2015)

I think some questions are asked with the wish to be given the answer that is wanted. When that answer differs then it can be viewed as negative, as opposed to simply honest.

This is natural, we all open our presents with a secret wish for its contents. now, as I typed this, I expect it will attract a chorus of:

_'No, I always expect slippers, I always get slippers and I am comfortable with slippers'_

Well each to their own but for those asking questions about following your dream, go right a head, ask away but listen to the the constructive critique you are offered and you may well reach your paradise quicker and with less cuts and bruises. 

I am also a newbie and ask loads of questions but also spend hours back reading many threads, only to read of the same 'Pothole' causing many, time and again to stumble and some to fall. In most, if not all cased the 'Pothole' will be preceded by a sign on the forum, warning of the obstacle ahead. If only we read it!

Remember: _*Live with Passion*_ Terms & Conditions may apply, see forum for further details

Good Luck


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## AllHeart (Nov 22, 2013)

Pesky Wesky said:


> I know what you mean. In the past I think some of us have come down like a ton of bricks on some posters, but usually with those that really seemed to have little idea of, well just about anything.
> Now, Spain _seems _to be in a better position, but one look at the stats will tell you that Spain's unemployment figures are worse far worse than the UKs
> http://www.elmundo.es/grafico/economia/2014/10/24/544a3a98268e3ece028b456d.html://
> That can't be ignored.
> ...


I never said to ignore the advice about how hard it is to get a job here. I think that's really important, as I've said, especially when people are clueless. I'm just saying it would be nice to hear about how to get a job and what it's like working in Spain. People do talk about that here, but very infrequently. It's about balance. You're right, typically people come down like a ton of bricks when asking about jobs.

EOW, I'm not saying that it should be 'positive' talk. It could be downright depressing.


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## AllHeart (Nov 22, 2013)

Helenameva said:


> Allheart - USP = Unique Selling Point


Thank you.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

AllHeart said:


> Well, that's a blanket statement, especially since you didn't even specify a country.


Surely it's an opinion that applies to any country.


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

AllHeart said:


> I never said to ignore the advice about how hard it is to get a job here. I think that's really important, as I've said, especially when people are clueless. I'm just saying it would be nice to hear about how to get a job and what it's like working in Spain. People do talk about that here, but very infrequently. It's about balance. You're right, typically people come down like a ton of bricks when asking about jobs.
> 
> EOW, I'm not saying that it should be 'positive' talk. It could be downright depressing.



What does this mean in this context (End of Watch  )



[From an old f*rt, why can't people use good old English?]


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

On reflection.....when we decided to leave the UK and permanently live abroad, initially in the Czech Republic, we were not looking to work, although I ended up working one day a week at the Czech Statistic Office, speaking in English to officials there about various topics of interest to them. There was and maybe still is plenty of work for qualified English speakers as the younger generation hadn't been trained in sufficient numbers in uses of 'new' technologies common in the Western business world and the older generation had grown used to the work mentality and practices of socialism.
Because I had known the country through decades of visits, staying with close Czech friends, I didn't need to consult Forums for moving advice. In spite of all that, we learnt a lot by simply being there, experiencing everyday life.
When we moved to Spain we knew next to nothing of the country in spite of having visited many times over many years. I found this Forum very useful in providing replies to questions which required 'hard fact' answers. Had I at that time asked about the possibility of finding work as a non- Spanish speaking MFL teacher I would have noted the responses but no way would I have based my decision to move to Spain or not on them.
Some people expect too much from Forums like these. They ask for advice and information on important topics, legal, administrative, bureaucratic, that most of us are smply not qualified to give.
This Forum is essentially a chat board forimmigrants, mainly British, to swap stories and discuss social and political topics.
Few of us are practising lawyers, accountants, employment consultants or realtors.....those who are probably don't have the time, energy or interest to post on Forums.
For me this Forum became useful and important once I had arrived here, not before. I got useful advice on things that cropped up in actually lived life in Spain as well as being able to discuss political and other topics in English with a variety of different people.
If I'd been thinking of coming to work or start a business in Spain I wouldn't have asked for or expected authorative guidance from any Forum.
I'd have got on a plane.


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## EdofWigan (Jun 28, 2015)

mrypg9 said:


> I'd have got on a plane.


I think the Get On A Plane and Fly, as opposed to Ask, Think, then Act, flies in the face of most of the great advice that I have seen thrown into the forums _ 'Cauldron of Conundrums' _ and I think if people Ask then Think before they Act, then there would be a whole less Tears n Tantrums

BUT

At some point you, we all, need to take the plunge or move away from the pool.

It is much easier for some to just take the plunge, family, financial constraints, UK property issues but for some, we have enough control over the above that we can _'Take a Punt'_

The real problem occurs when some folk without control of the above, see and act, without exercising due diligence. Then, alas we have dreams turning to nightmares


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## EdofWigan (Jun 28, 2015)

Now be honest, did my 'But' look big in that post?


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

EdofWigan said:


> I think the Get On A Plane and Fly, as opposed to Ask, Think, then Act, flies in the face of most of the great advice that I have seen thrown into the forums _ 'Cauldron of Conundrums' _ and I think if people Ask then Think before they Act, then there would be a whole less Tears n Tantrums
> 
> BUT
> 
> ...



You misread.
i would 'get on a plane' to find the facts on the ground, do first- hand research, get a feel for the reality of things rather than ask second- hand advice BEFORE getting on a plane to make a permanent move.
I thought I had made that very clear.


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## EdofWigan (Jun 28, 2015)

... and this is why we newbies, should read carefully the great and sound advice of those more experienced, like Mary


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

EdofWigan said:


> ... and this is why we newbies, should read carefully the great and sound advice of those more experienced, like Mary


Bollocks. I would never claim my advice to be 'great and sound'. I rarely give advice anyway, I offer opinions. There is a difference.
But it is important not to misinterpret what people post.


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## jimenato (Nov 21, 2009)

When we arrived in Spain in 2000 with very little money, we didn't even know where we were going - we could have ended up anywhere. 14 years later we were still there having had jobs and owned a business.

So it can be done - or at least it could then, I'm not so sure now.


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## AllHeart (Nov 22, 2013)

snikpoh said:


> What does this mean in this context (End of Watch  )
> 
> 
> 
> [From an old f*rt, why can't people use good old English?]


EOW = EdofWigan. It was a reply to post #90.


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## EdofWigan (Jun 28, 2015)

I think what i have read, so far is Great n Sound. You talk a lot of sense but at the end of the day, it comes down to the interpretation taken by the reader, my interpretation.

You have clarified the last line of your previous post, without which it could have been read a different way. 

_'If I'd been thinking of coming to work or start a business in Spain I wouldn't have asked for or expected authorative guidance from any Forum.
I'd have got on a plane.'_

That could be read, as you intend to recce and scope out. Alternatively, some may read it as_ 'I would Go for it' _

At the end of the day, I will listen widely, Google, I will carry out reccies, ask questions, after which I will make my informed decision,that decision and responsibility for the results of it, will be mine. 

but hopefully, I will be humble enough, to take time to listen to the great n Sound advice, I am offered here and elsewhere


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

AllHeart said:


> EOW = EdofWigan. It was a reply to post #90.


Thanks, I completely missed that possibility.


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## AllHeart (Nov 22, 2013)

snikpoh said:


> Thanks, I completely missed that possibility.


You're welcome. It was reckless behaviour on my part.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

EdofWigan said:


> I think what i have read, so far is Great n Sound. You talk a lot of sense but at the end of the day, it comes down to the interpretation taken by the reader, my interpretation.
> 
> You have clarified the last line of your previous post, without which it could have been read a different way.
> 
> ...


Ed, I would hope that no-one would be foolish enough to act on anything I said. I certainly wouldn't! My experience is relative to me and whilst surely not unique wouldn't be that helpful to others. When I left the UK there were just the two of us, no dependents, no property ties at least after the first year and solvent enough to weather any storm we could think of. 
We knew where we were going, had a place to live lined up and friends to see us through the inevitable problems we knew we'd encounter.
Anyone who knows my posts will know I'm the last person to say 'Go for it' although I might say that the young and unattached could try their luck. I'm ultra-prudent, probably too timid and risk averse for most people. It was my partner's suggestion that we a) left the UK in 2005 and b) moved to Spain in 2008. Left to my own devices it's hard to say what I would have done.
Advice on any topic really needs t be carefully evaluated from all angles. From your posts you seem to be a practical person so I'm sure you agree. But it's good to get a general picture, I guess.
On the subject of advice, though....on another thread, I mooted the idea that this Forum might be called upon in the future to give marriage guidance counselling as part of its services...Should that be the case, I think Baldy and I should fill that role. We'd surely make a super Marge Proops ensemble...


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

mrypg9 said:


> On the subject of advice, though....on another thread, I mooted the idea that this Forum might be called upon in the future to give* marriage guidance counselling as part of its services...Should that be the case, I think Baldy and I should fill that role. *We'd surely make a super Marge Proops ensemble...


Well I am on my fourth and probably last [marriage]. I started on forums some 20 years ago answering questions of a sexual nature. It was surprising, to me, to find even in the late 20th century, the levels of ignorance about human anatomy and how things worked, that existed and, for all I know, may still exist even now. Matters about which I had been aware since the early 60s were unknown by so many, it might have still been Victorian times.


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## starynightsky (Dec 7, 2014)

Hasn't worn off after 8 years. Still love living in Andalucía. Friendly Spanish people and lovely weather outweigh most of the negatives.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

baldilocks said:


> Well I am on my fourth and probably last [marriage]. I started on forums some 20 years ago answering *questions of a **sexual nature.* It was surprising, to me, to find even in the late 20th century, the levels of ignorance about human anatomy and how things worked, that existed and, for all I know, may still exist even now. Matters about which I had been aware since the early 60s were unknown by so many, it might have still been Victorian times.


I shall not hesitate to come to you for advice if needed.......but it will be by pm


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## Rabbitcat (Aug 31, 2014)

baldilocks said:


> Well I am on my fourth and probably last [marriage]. I started on forums some 20 years ago answering questions of a sexual nature. It was surprising, to me, to find even in the late 20th century, the levels of ignorance about human anatomy and how things worked, that existed and, for all I know, may still exist even now. Matters about which I had been aware since the early 60s were unknown by so many, it might have still been Victorian times.



4 marriages and a nooky expert!!!

Baldy you old dog- you're the forum Don Juan!!!


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

baldilocks said:


> Well I am on my fourth and probably last [marriage]. I started on forums some 20 years ago answering questions of a sexual nature. It was surprising, to me, to find even in the late 20th century, the levels of ignorance about human anatomy and how things worked, that existed and, for all I know, may still exist even now. Matters about which I had been aware since the early 60s were unknown by so many, it might have still been Victorian times.




:jaw:

Jo xxx


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

mrypg9 said:


> I shall not hesitate to come to you for advice if needed.......but it will be by pm


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Rabbitcat said:


> 4 marriages and a nooky expert!!!
> 
> Baldy you old dog- you're the forum Don Juan!!!


Coarsely put.....but seemingly true


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

mrypg9 said:


> Coarsely put.....but seemingly true


Should I feel flattered or flattened?


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## EdofWigan (Jun 28, 2015)

Well how do we follow that? :cheer2:


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

EdofWigan said:


> Well how do we follow that? :cheer2:


Not in a way that can be openly described on this genteel Forum where Mods lurk to preserve decorum....


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

Pesky Wesky said:


> No, that isn't or wasn't my case. My only daughter was born in Spain and is, like her father, Spanish. And I'm not retired, not early retired although atm I find myself not working as I'm looking after my aged father in the UK.
> This is a situation that quite a few people on the forum have found themselves in (BTW has Lynn R been posting lately?) and it's not nice, I can tell you.


Hi

Not for nearly 3 weeks she hasn't (we have just got back from a holiday in Thailand, literally a couple of hours ago) so will be catching up gradually. 

Sorry you are having a difficult time of it, I do know from personal experience how hard it is when parents or other elderly relatives back in the UK need help. It was bad enough for me and I wasn't working, it must be doubly difficult when you have your work to try to cope with too.

Re the original question, we are over 9 years into living here now and it has hit me anew today just how nice it is to come home to. The "novelty" of some things does wear off (I practically never sunbathe now, nor do I eat many meals outside unless we have visitors, for example) but the enjoyment of life remains.


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## EdofWigan (Jun 28, 2015)

welcome back


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## Maureen47 (Mar 27, 2014)

Seeing my two rescue hounds we brought with us from the UK to Spain doing zoomies along an empty Tabernes beach today at over 20 degrees in February is probably something that the novelty will never wear off from , just saying ...


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## EdofWigan (Jun 28, 2015)

Today the wind was gusting in Atherton, at time the rain came from all directions. Temperature wise a little above zero but lower taking into account the wind chill factor. 

I had to drive over a town or three (return trip about 30 miles) to repair a sign for my brother, after which I was glad to drive back with my van heater on full, warming my cold wet hands. 

I am now sat in my home, on my PC, researching my escape to the new adventure that will be Spain.

Yes, I understand it will be a steep learning curve, with times of frustration, a new language to learn, new friendships to build. it will be hard to close the door on the working period of my life (I love my work but work it is) and take the step into early retirement. I will, of course set up a little interest when I am there, mainly to keep me out of mischief or the pub. 

No, I think the novelty of living in Atherton, England has worn off.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

EdofWigan said:


> Today the wind was gusting in Atherton, at time the rain came from all directions. Temperature wise a little above zero but lower taking into account the wind chill factor.
> 
> I had to drive over a town or three (return trip about 30 miles) to repair a sign for my brother, after which I was glad to drive back with my van heater on full, warming my cold wet hands.
> 
> ...


You like cooking - maybe there's an opportunity there for you in Spain.


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## EdofWigan (Jun 28, 2015)

I love cooking and I would consider it for small numbers of guests, as part of a Spanish Home Stay package.

By profession I am a trainer, so that also has options 

But you are right, cooking, especially for friends is a real passion, never a chore


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

EdofWigan said:


> I love cooking and I would consider it for small numbers of guests, as part of a Spanish Home Stay package.
> 
> By profession I am a trainer, so that also has options
> 
> But you are right, cooking, especially for friends is a real passion, never a chore


Friends we had in Bogotá when we lived in Colombia used to have a very private restaurant, access only by invitation. One of them (Now deceased) was a retired dentist and loved to play the piano, the other loved cooking, so their idea was to have friends over who liked good food and also jazz (that was their speciality). Unfortunately the friend through whom we used to get involved has also died as has my f-i-l plus we moved away so we have lost track. The place was hidden away in a little dell with orchids hanging from the trees so even if you weren't particularly into jazz, you could walk in the gardens surrounded by the perfume of the orchids and humming birds.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Lynn R said:


> Hi
> 
> Not for nearly 3 weeks she hasn't (we have just got back from a holiday in Thailand, literally a couple of hours ago) so will be catching up gradually.
> 
> ...


I thought you might have been on your hols. You had mentioned how you had a period of to-ing and fro-ing to the UK due to family problems and my situation made me think of you.
Life is difficult atm, but I realise that my lot is still easier than a lot of other people have it, and I trust it will not last for long!


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## AllHeart (Nov 22, 2013)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Life is difficult atm, but I realise that my lot is still easier than a lot of other people have it, and I trust it will not last for long!


I hope it doesn't last too long either. My thoughts are with you during this difficult time. 

There is always someone who has it worse than you, and always someone who has it better than you. I heard something like this a few years ago and love it... Telling someone they shouldn't be sad because there are others who have it worse than them is as ridiculous as telling someone they shouldn't be happy because there are others who have it better than them.


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