# Running cost for empty property



## Robors2 (Jun 12, 2015)

Hello, I wondered if people can share their experience with running costs and security when the town hose is empty.
What I would like to know is how much per month would you need to allocate to keep town house in Marina Alta. What are the charges for zero use electric, water, council tax, key holding, security.
Regards
Robert


----------



## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

Your Council Tax will be the same whether the house is occupied or not.

With electricity and water, standing charges plus IVA will have to be paid. The amount will depend on who your supplier is. With electricity it's based on how many kw you have contracted for (ie how much power you can draw at any one time). For 5.75kw my standing charges are €21.52 per month, plus IVA. For water, with my supplier standing charges account for most of the bill - my latest bill for 2 months is €29.15 and only €4.81 of that relates to water consumption.

Don't forget to add house insurance to your list of expenses, and if the property is on an urbanisation, almost certainly there will be community fees to pay.


----------



## Robors2 (Jun 12, 2015)

Lynn R said:


> Your Council Tax will be the same whether the house is occupied or not.
> 
> With electricity and water, standing charges plus IVA will have to be paid. The amount will depend on who your supplier is. With electricity it's based on how many kw you have contracted for (ie how much power you can draw at any one time). For 5.75kw my standing charges are €21.52 per month, plus IVA. For water, with my supplier standing charges account for most of the bill - my latest bill for 2 months is €29.15 and only €4.81 of that relates to water consumption.
> 
> Don't forget to add house insurance to your list of expenses, and if the property is on an urbanisation, almost certainly there will be community fees to pay.


Thanks Lynn
I am looking at old townhouse in the village and the property will be a building project in progress. I need water and electrics connected so the work can be done in stages.
What is average cost of council tax (100m/sq) and basic house insurance?


----------



## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

Robors2 said:


> Thanks Lynn
> I am looking at old townhouse in the village and the property will be a building project in progress. I need water and electrics connected so the work can be done in stages.
> What is average cost of council tax (100m/sq) and basic house insurance?


Impossible to give an average cost for council tax as it varies so widely. It's based on the catastral value of individual properties (and their exact size), very different from the UK where it's just based on bands which are available for all to see. I had a 169m/sq old townhouse before we moved and the IBI bill for that was €576 per year but many people in other towns will pay much less (and some maybe more), the variations are just so big.

Non resident property tax is something else to add to your list, again based on the catastral value so impossible to say how much it might be.

http://www.advoco.es/most-requested-services/37-spanish-tax-form-210.html


----------



## bobley (Nov 7, 2018)

I've just paid my IBI and that was about €600 for our townhouse. Council refuse and sewerage is about €35 a month, leccy again about €40-50 a month. House insurance was about €260. Biggest bill is the phone at €46/month but I doubt broadband will be high on your list just now.


----------



## Robors2 (Jun 12, 2015)

To summarize all together,
Council tax 600, House insurance 250, Electrics 300, Water 180 , Non resident tax 300,
Do you have to pay refuse collection on empty properly?
Blind me, 
Blind me 1600 Euro, I could easily have 4 to 6 week holiday in winter for this much.
Thanks


----------



## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

Robors2 said:


> To summarize all together,
> Council tax 600, House insurance 250, Electrics 300, Water 180 , Non resident tax 300,
> Do you have to pay refuse collection on empty properly?
> Blind me,
> ...


We don't have a separate refuse collection tax in our town, it´s included in the IBI. But if there is one, I'm pretty sure you would have to pay it whether the house is occupied or not.

I think a lot of people are surprised once they find out all the expenses involved in owning a second home. You also have to budget for ongoing repairs and maintenance even after the initial renovation is done.


----------



## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

Robors2 said:


> To summarize all together,
> Council tax 600, House insurance 250, Electrics 300, Water 180 , Non resident tax 300,
> Do you have to pay refuse collection on empty properly?
> Blind me,
> ...


Where we are gthere are two "rubbish" taxes. (1) waste water (water rates) (2) Bins etc.

If you don't have water connected then you don't have to pay either


----------



## bobley (Nov 7, 2018)

I dont think you'll need to pay your none resident tax until a year after. I bought in march this year, but I dont need to pay none resident until next november. I hope the 9% stamp duty was enough for them this year!

Still cheap compared to living in the UK


----------



## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

bobley said:


> I dont think you'll need to pay your none resident tax until a year after. I bought in march this year, but I dont need to pay none resident until next november. I hope the 9% stamp duty was enough for them this year!
> 
> Still cheap compared to living in the UK


I agree, it is cheap compared to living in the UK. But as the OP is enquiring about the running costs for an empty property in Spain and gives his location as the UK, he is going to be paying those costs as well as whatever it costs him to live in the UK, not instead.


----------



## bobley (Nov 7, 2018)

Lynn R said:


> I agree, it is cheap compared to living in the UK. But as the OP is enquiring about the running costs for an empty property in Spain and gives his location as the UK, he is going to be paying those costs as well as whatever it costs him to live in the UK, not instead.


Yeah, I'm in the same boat as the OP. I should have a label on my profile to say that I'm an expat wanabee, so my post was coming from that perspective but I hadn't thought to make it clear.


----------



## nigele2 (Dec 25, 2009)

A slight aside possibly but I’d like to know what exchange rate the new guys are calculating costs. It is easy to say living in Spain is cheaper while the pound is at 1.12. But if it fell to equilibrium would the same be true. (Considering higher taxes and healthcare, etc.. if you stay 183+).


----------



## uk03878 (Jul 4, 2018)

nigele2 said:


> A slight aside possibly but I’d like to know what exchange rate the new guys are calculating costs. It is easy to say living in Spain is cheaper while the pound is at 1.12. But if it fell to equilibrium would the same be true. (Considering higher taxes and healthcare, etc.. if you stay 183+).


I am using these forecasts
(they have been fairly stable for the past 6 months)
https://longforecast.com/pound-to-euro-forecast-2017-2018-2019-2020-2021-gbp-to-eur-and-eur-to-gbp


----------



## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

bobley said:


> I dont think you'll need to pay your none resident tax until a year after. I bought in march this year, but I dont need to pay none resident until next november. I hope the 9% stamp duty was enough for them this year!
> 
> Still cheap compared to living in the UK


Assessment of non-res tax is quarterly, so you may "get away with" a couple of months, but technically you are liable as soon as the property is in your name.

I had to pay it on a property I purchased in September until the end of that year as I did not become tax resident until 1st Jan the following year.


----------



## nigele2 (Dec 25, 2009)

uk03878 said:


> I am using these forecasts
> (they have been fairly stable for the past 6 months)
> https://longforecast.com/pound-to-euro-forecast-2017-2018-2019-2020-2021-gbp-to-eur-and-eur-to-gbp


Interesting. So presumably you are planing on a 1:1 if not lower? I think that would be very wise. I've certainly run my economy through the 0.9 pound to 1 Euro just to make sure.

If I do cut and run as they say I'd certainly want enough notice to get rid of property here. Even though at that exchange rate I could make a killing getting back into sterling.

Just a thought on forecasts 2 years ago when the pound bought 1.4 Euros there were forecasts predicting 1.5. It didn't happen But if you'd suggested equality people would have laughed 

But all the very best with your adventure. While after many years being in love with Spain I now want a divorce (from the country, not my spanish wife :kiss it was a great adventure that I wouldn't change even if I could


----------



## uk03878 (Jul 4, 2018)

nigele2 said:


> Interesting. So presumably you are planing on a 1:1 if not lower? I think that would be very wise. I've certainly run my economy through the 0.9 pound to 1 Euro just to make sure.
> 
> If I do cut and run as they say I'd certainly want enough notice to get rid of property here. Even though at that exchange rate I could make a killing getting back into sterling.
> 
> ...


Yes - I am estimating at equality to 0.95
Anything above that is a bonus


----------



## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

nigele2 said:


> A slight aside possibly but I’d like to know what exchange rate the new guys are calculating costs. It is easy to say living in Spain is cheaper while the pound is at 1.12. But if it fell to equilibrium would the same be true. (Considering higher taxes and healthcare, etc.. if you stay 183+).


If my income in euros falls because sterling reaches parity, then I'll be paying less tax - in fact I wouldn't pay any at all, from next year. Someone with an income (a pension, say) of 14k sterling (€14k at parity) would not pay any IRPF in 2019, whereas in the UK with a personal allowance of 12.5k they'd pay 300 pounds in income tax, no?

Not that I relish the prospect, but I think I'd still find a lot of things considerably cheaper. IBI of €445 compared to Council Tax of 1200 pounds - even at parity, nearly two thirds cheaper. My electricity bills for the year are still lower than what I read is the average dual fuel bill for a 2 bed apartment, even at parity. My hairdresser's bill is still half of what I'd pay in the UK, even at parity.


----------



## Robors2 (Jun 12, 2015)

Lynn R said:


> OP is enquiring about the running costs for an empty property in Spain and gives his location as the UK, he is going to be paying those costs as well as whatever it costs him to live in the UK


Thanks everyone for your input and I have learnt even more about the move to Spain.

I have been looking for place in Spain for over 5 years now and I have settled on Valencia region. Usually I spend 4-6 weeks in winter/spring looking at places as this gives me vision of proper Spain and also prices are more realistic. 

I am working and living in London for nearly 30 years but also have place in Poland (currently for sale) and the running costs for property there is around 400 euro per annual.

I am coming to conclusion that buying large building project in Spain may cost double what I have budgeted for, when taking to consideration running cost for empty property for around 5-6 years.


----------



## nigele2 (Dec 25, 2009)

Lynn R said:


> If my income in euros falls because sterling reaches parity, then I'll be paying less tax - in fact I wouldn't pay any at all, from next year. Someone with an income (a pension, say) of 14k sterling (€14k at parity) would not pay any IRPF in 2019, whereas in the UK with a personal allowance of 12.5k they'd pay 300 pounds in income tax, no?


Lynn it all depends on your circumstances but recently

PA UK 11.500 Spain 7555

First tax band UK: 0 - 33500 20%

First tax band Spain: 

Up to €12,450: 19%
€12,450–20,200: 24%
€20,200–35,200: 30%

There are allowances in Spain including generous annuity treatment.

But of course the horror would be if you had to pay tax on pension lump sum. Even worse if inheritance tax applies.

I'm not suggesting that life in Spain is as a gross not cheaper than the UK but just warning that you need to be prepared.


----------



## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

nigele2 said:


> But of course the horror would be if you had to pay tax on pension lump sum. Even worse if inheritance tax applies.
> 
> I'm not suggesting that life in Spain is as a gross not cheaper than the UK but just warning that you need to be prepared.


Tell me about it - I did have to pay tax on one of my pension lump sums (the biggest one) because I'd become tax resident in Spain 8 years before receiving it. I'd have been better off if the pound had been at parity with the euro that year!

I did know about that before I moved here, though, and often warn people who are thinking of making the move about it, just in case they're not aware.

Btw, you missed out the existing low income allowance which has meant that people with an income of up to €12k pay no IRPF (that threshold increases to €14k next year).

If we reach parity, a glass of wine in a bar will still cost me half of what it would in the UK so at least I´ll be able to afford to drown my sorrows.


----------

