# Foreign Born Adoption--US Citizenship



## Kimbella (Jul 4, 2013)

Greetings all,

I realize this particular topic thread may not get many replies, but I'm putting it out there in the off chance someone else has experienced this situation.

I am an expat American living in New Zealand since 2012. I am married to a kiwi, and am going through the process of adopting my New Zealand born step-daughter. I'm concurrently looking into the different American Visas and/or Citizenship route I can apply for, so she has access to the US if she chooses to move there later for work or school.

On the surface, getting her citizenship seems to make the most sense.

Has anyone had any experience with this topic at all? Any pros or cons anyone can provide me with on why getting her a Visa or Citizenship now, when she's a teen (she'll be 15 or 16 when the adoption is finalised), would be problematic or inadvisable?

I don't have any specific plans of returning to the US myself, but I do know that because of her ambitions, and her love of all things American, she may well choose to move there to advance herself professionally, or for tertiary schooling.

Thanks in advance,

Kimbella


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## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

Well, to start with, you can't get her a visa until and unless you are planning to travel to the US. Visas don't stay valid indefinitely.

However, for citizenship purposes, I give you the words of the USCIS (about as authoritative a source as there is): https://www.uscis.gov/policymanual/HTML/PolicyManual-Volume12-PartH-Chapter2.html

Sounds like you might have a chance of getting citizenship for her once the adoption is complete.
Cheers,
Bev


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## BBCWatcher (Dec 28, 2012)

I've done a bit of research, and my understanding is that this is the sequence you would follow since New Zealand is a Hague Adoption Convention country:

1. File USCIS Form I-800A and related attachments plus fees.

2. File USCIS Form I-800 and related attachments. (No fee.)

3. File USCIS Form N-600K and related attachments plus fees.

4. Visit the United States to complete formalities (interview, oath, U.S. passport) before your adopted daughter reaches her 18th birthday, preferably well before. She can travel on her New Zealand passport with ordinary ESTA visa waiver privileges. She needs to complete the interview and oath within her 90 day ESTA stay limit. Once her U.S. passport is in hand she's all set.

You'll have to move with some speed. The first two steps are supposed to happen before your daughter's 16th birthday. Please double check all this, of course.


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## Kimbella (Jul 4, 2013)

Thank you both for your replies... yes, the citizenship route is what I was mostly looking into, and was thinking on the side that perhaps there was some sort of Visa she might be eligible for as my (soon to be legal) daughter, that she could active/trigger if she decided to go at a later date.

Do either of you (or anyone else) have any opinion on whether obtaining her American citizenship is a good or not so good move?


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## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

It really all depends on what your plans might be. If you are planning on staying outside the US indefinitely, you may want to wait until closer to her 18th birthday and let her be part of the decision.

The big and most often cited "disadvantage" of signing her up for US citizenship at adoption is that she will then be subject to US taxation for the rest of her life unless she forks out $2350 or more in order to renounce. It's kind of a shock for a young adult who has never lived in the US to discover that they are supposed to be filing income taxes (and possibly other forms) every year based solely on a nationality they have never particularly had any use for. It's particularly difficult for young people who decide to start up their own businesses or who may inherit or invest in perfectly straight-forward investments from parents or grandparents and who find there are complicating tax or reporting arrangements in a foreign country to be dealt with.

I'm sure one or more of our members will be along shortly to present the "advantages" of US citizenship.
Cheers,
Bev


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## BBCWatcher (Dec 28, 2012)

Bevdeforges said:


> If you are planning on staying outside the US indefinitely, you may want to wait until closer to her 18th birthday and let her be part of the decision.


No, that doesn't work, at least not realistically. This is a very time limited option. If she wants U.S. citizenship, even at this young age (age 15), then her wishes should govern, in my view. Unfortunately you and she don't get to wait until she's older. It's pretty much now or never. You and she really have to mount this horse and ride it hard, immediately, if she's going to get U.S. citizenship. (And even then there's some risk in not getting to the finish line.)

I think it's quite an easy decision, actually. If in the future she feels she doesn't want her U.S. citizenship then $2350 (2016 dollars) and a visit to a U.S. consulate terminates U.S. citizenship. But at age 15 (and well beyond, most probably) there's nothing but upside (actual and/or potential), in my view. Children and young adults do not have older adult hangups or issues, properly so.


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## twostep (Apr 3, 2008)

A 15 year old is not a child anymore and can make decisions given facts and guidance. As far as tax returns are concerned - services such as Turbotax make complex situations very easy. The young lady has a once in a lifetime shot at a second citizenship which may come in handy from tuition to employment to travel. Hindsight is 20/20. Especially older folks who may never have faced today's visa restrictions may see it differently. If she wants to renounce it for whatever reasons she at least will have had the choice.


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## Kimbella (Jul 4, 2013)

Thank you all for the feedback, it is genuinely helpful. My own reservations about pursuing citizenship for her also stemmed from possible future tax consequences, so it's reassuring to hear about the "ease" of renouncing it if she so desires. I agree that her choice is important in this matter, even if she doesn't yet understand its full implications; and I can't see too many drawbacks to having American citizenship... as someone above noted so aptly, it's a chance that not too many will ever get (so easily). 

Many thanks from New Zealand


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## BBCWatcher (Dec 28, 2012)

Kimbella said:


> My own reservations about pursuing citizenship for her also stemmed from possible future tax consequences, so it's reassuring to hear about the "ease" of renouncing it if she so desires.


The U.S. citizen parent should be quite familiar with those tax and financial reporting requirements. In pure financial terms it's very simple: U.S. persons might owe a bit of U.S. tax on non-U.S. source income only if both these things are true: (a) they have a relatively high (or higher) income; (b) their foreign tax rate on that income is lower (extremely unlikely in New Zealand or Australia).

Young adults almost never satisfy part (a) anyway, but U.S. personhood does have its considerable income generating advantages. Moreover, young adults who attend college/university routinely qualify for something called the American Opportunity Tax Credit (AOTC). The AOTC provides $1,000 per year (up to $4,000 total) in free money from the IRS if that U.S. person incurred qualified higher educational expenses of at least that amount. (President Obama has proposed boosting this credit to $1,500/year.) Also, U.S. persons often qualify for U.S. federal government direct student loans when they attend U.S. Department of Education-listed colleges/universities (there are many outside the U.S., too). Under current student loan rules they can sign up for income-based repayment, live and work overseas, and (usually) pay nothing -- but never pay more than the principle plus standard interest. At the end of the loan term the remaining loan principle and interest is forgiven, and they only pay ordinary income tax on the value of that loan forgiveness. That's a _hell_ of a great deal.

Another serious advantage is that a U.S. person can easily (with no immigration hassles) work as few as two calendar years in the United States (or even a fraction of any two calendar years) and end up qualifying for some level of U.S. Social Security retirement benefits (and benefits for his/her spouse), assuming the U.S person also spends some time working in a country that has a social security treaty with the U.S., such as Australia as a notable, highly relevant example in this case. That could even be work in the United States during university term breaks -- that counts. I think you need only 6 credits for this sort of scenario (versus the standard 40 credits without treaty country contributions, which requires work within at least 10 calendar years). So if you earn $3780 working in the U.S. in 2016 and probably about $3900 in 2017, that would be enough to get 6 U.S. Social Security credits. That's just over 3 months per year working at the U.S. federal minimum wage, for reference. U.S. Social Security, too, is a hell of a great deal in this sort of scenario.

Children and younger adults are not older adults (curmudgeons?), quite simply.


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## BBCWatcher (Dec 28, 2012)

As a follow-up, I checked the U.S. Department of Education's list. Here are some of the universities in New Zealand that are on the list, meaning a U.S. person attending that institution should qualify for that American Opportunity Tax Credit (free money, even if they don't actually use their free money from the U.S. government for tuition and instead use it for beer):

University of Auckland
University of Otago
University of Canterbury
Victoria University of Wellington
Massey University

There are others on the list, but those are probably New Zealand's top 5 universities, and they're all on the U.S. DoE's list.

One caveat: the American Opportunity Tax Credit is scheduled to expire at the end of 2017 under current tax law. But it has been repeatedly extended, and as mentioned the President has proposed making it bigger. There's no guarantee of that, of course, but that's the present reality for current college/university students who happen to be U.S. persons.

Another caveat: _self-employed_ U.S. persons working in a country that does not have a social security treaty with the United States -- New Zealand is an example -- are required to contribute to the U.S. Social Security and Medicare systems. Of course that also means such individuals earn benefits in those programs, and, once they qualify, as they contribute more their future Social Security retirement benefits increase. But that is a potential consideration for some U.S. persons living and working in New Zealand.


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## BBCWatcher (Dec 28, 2012)

Turning to earning ability for a moment, first of all it's rather difficult to compare incomes between countries. With that caveat aside, one can naively look at median weekly earnings (from work) in both the United States and New Zealand just to get some rough idea of current labor market conditions in these two countries. In the fourth quarter of 2016 (latest data I can find), the median weekly earnings from work (among workers) in the United States was US$825. For the second quarter of 2015 (also the latest I can find) New Zealand reported their comparable figure of NZ$882. At current exchange rates, as I write this, the New Zealand figure is equal to about US$595.

Looking at the most recent official unemployment rates (with the same caveat above), the U.S. national rate is currently 4.9%, and New Zealand's national rate is 5.3%, as I write this.

So New Zealand isn't "bad" by any means, but the U.S. labor market is a bit tighter and performing a bit better right now. Fortunately individuals holding both U.S. and New Zealand passports have the freedom to choose which of these economies they want to work in, and they can change their minds at any time. (Or work in Australia -- that's another option.) Economic conditions change over time, so this flexibility is a nice benefit, especially for young adults.


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