# retiring to greece



## dorsetknob

My wife and I are approaching retirement and are looking for somewhere that our pensions will stretch further than in the UK. We've always liked the Greek Islands, so are trying to get as much unbiased practical information as we can.
Especially from anyone who has made a similar move. We are thinking of renting initially, so some idea of long term rental rates would be a help. Plus a guide to the cost of living. Health care issues. Suggestions of the most suitable islands/areas. And any more relevant information that anyone has would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers dorsetknob.


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## scoobie

There is alot you need to consider, if your ages are of a standard retirement age then you must consider health facilities. Health wise for the future, you would not want to be in a mountain village for instance. Look for somewhere that has regualar all year public transport. You will be entitled to IKA here and need the relevant form , check out the DWP website in the UK. This entitles you to medical care from the IKA clinic. Also consider that most islands, should you need surgery or have a more serious illness , will send you to the mainland for any serious medical care. Sorry to be all doom and gloom but i have met retired people who end up trying to sell their home as they are in the wrong location. 
For a bank account they will want to see your pension earnings, you can get a tax number here from the local tax offices, a residency paper from the police. Have a search on line for estate agents on different islands and they often have rentals so this will give you an idea of the cost on each island. If you will have lots of family visiting you should look at the cost of flights to the island, for example Corfu has Easyjet now during the summer which if booked in advance is cheap.
It is best to do internet searches on the islands you are interested in and take it from there.


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## dorsetknob

scoobie said:


> There is alot you need to consider, if your ages are of a standard retirement age then you must consider health facilities. Health wise for the future, you would not want to be in a mountain village for instance. Look for somewhere that has regualar all year public transport. You will be entitled to IKA here and need the relevant form , check out the DWP website in the UK. This entitles you to medical care from the IKA clinic. Also consider that most islands, should you need surgery or have a more serious illness , will send you to the mainland for any serious medical care. Sorry to be all doom and gloom but i have met retired people who end up trying to sell their home as they are in the wrong location.
> For a bank account they will want to see your pension earnings, you can get a tax number here from the local tax offices, a residency paper from the police. Have a search on line for estate agents on different islands and they often have rentals so this will give you an idea of the cost on each island. If you will have lots of family visiting you should look at the cost of flights to the island, for example Corfu has Easyjet now during the summer which if booked in advance is cheap.
> It is best to do internet searches on the islands you are interested in and take it from there.


Thanks Scoobie you make a fair point. Yes we are of "normal" retiring age and have to consider things like health care, from what you say maybe one of the bigger islands or possibly the mainland might be better for hospitals etc. Would you say that health care is generally of a good standard and easy to access? Could you give a rough idea of normal living expences, I know it's difficult as we all have such varied lifestyles, but we tend to like the simple things of life. As well as the occasional little treats. Basically we are hungry for any information you might have. if we can narrow our search down to a few preffered areas, we can come over for an extended holiday early in the new year to look for suitable properties. We would certainly lease somewhere for the first year, while renting out our house over here.
Thanks again Dorsetknob.


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## elen

Hi,
there are many nice areas that you can look into. Apart from the well known big islands, I would advise you to consider the island of Evoia, because it is very close to Athens airport, it has a bridge that connects it to the mainland, a new road is currently under construction that will make access a lot easier, it is not very expensive, it has great beaches, it is full of trees, and it still has life during the winter. Basically you can enjoy all the facilities of Athens (hospitals, large shopping malls etc) within 1,5 hour distance without having to worry for a boat. Furthermore, I would advise you to look into the area of Peloponnese - especially the south. I suggest this for the same reasons, though take in consideration that this part of Greece is slightly more expensive because it is crowded withh foreigners who have discovered it 10 years ago and they have made the prices rise a lot... If you chose something in the mainland or connected to the mainland and in any case close to Athens, you do not have to worry if easyjet or any other company change their minds in the future and stop flights close to your home...If you choose to live in a village in Evoia, you can probably have all your basic needs (electricity, water, transport, modest house, telephone, food etc) without having to spend more than 1200 - 1300 Euros per month. But this always depends on the kind of lifestyle each one of us has - I am sure people can get along with less (I can't imagine life without the internet and that costs for example), while others may need a lot more than that.


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## dorsetknob

elen said:


> Hi,
> there are many nice areas that you can look into. Apart from the well known big islands, I would advise you to consider the island of Evoia, because it is very close to Athens airport, it has a bridge that connects it to the mainland, a new road is currently under construction that will make access a lot easier, it is not very expensive, it has great beaches, it is full of trees, and it still has life during the winter. Basically you can enjoy all the facilities of Athens (hospitals, large shopping malls etc) within 1,5 hour distance without having to worry for a boat. Furthermore, I would advise you to look into the area of Peloponnese - especially the south. I suggest this for the same reasons, though take in consideration that this part of Greece is slightly more expensive because it is crowded withh foreigners who have discovered it 10 years ago and they have made the prices rise a lot... If you chose something in the mainland or connected to the mainland and in any case close to Athens, you do not have to worry if easyjet or any other company change their minds in the future and stop flights close to your home...If you choose to live in a village in Evoia, you can probably have all your basic needs (electricity, water, transport, modest house, telephone, food etc) without having to spend more than 1200 - 1300 Euros per month. But this always depends on
> the kind of lifestyle each one of us has - I am sure people can get along with less (I can't imagine life without the internet and that costs for example), while others may need a lot more than that.


Hi elen, thanks for the info, certainly food for thought. The idea of island life while being close to the mainland sounds like the best of both worlds. Are your numbers for a single person or a couple? We enjoy the simple pleasures of life, plus a nice glass of red in the evening, so feel we can live quite cheaply. But even so your figure would push us close to our limit. As we would be relying on state pension plus moderate private income. Roughly how much would you estimate the rental on a 2 bed property on the island? Do you live on Evoia/Have you been there long? What would you say is the best and worst of your life in Greece in comparison to the UK? Sorry to ask so many questions, but for warned is forarmed as they say. 

Cheers dorsetknob.


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## scoobie

dorsetknob said:


> Thanks Scoobie you make a fair point. Yes we are of "normal" retiring age and have to consider things like health care, from what you say maybe one of the bigger islands or possibly the mainland might be better for hospitals etc. Would you say that health care is generally of a good standard and easy to access? Could you give a rough idea of normal living expences, I know it's difficult as we all have such varied lifestyles, but we tend to like the simple things of life. As well as the occasional little treats. Basically we are hungry for any information you might have. if we can narrow our search down to a few preffered areas, we can come over for an extended holiday early in the new year to look for suitable properties. We would certainly lease somewhere for the first year, while renting out our house over here.
> Thanks again Dorsetknob.


Hi , the area that Elen suggested sounds great and for the mainland, Nafplio is wonderful but as Elen said the prices are more expensive there. The cost of rentals depends on what you want, apartment or house? Basically around 400 euros upwards. Electricity has gone up somewhat but still cheaper than the Uk and the Gas bottles for heaters or cooking are around 16 euros a bottle. Water is cheap also. To eat out living here you can do cheaply with the local small tavernas. Shopping is also cheaper than the Uk from what i have been told. 
I think the medical care is better than the Uk, it is easy to book a doctor and also easy to see specialists at the hospitals, a little chaotic but definately easier than getting to see a specialist in the Uk. If you get internet connection then sign up to SKYPE for a few euros a month you can call all over Europe for free, a great invention. I think the best thing is to search on line at the cost to buy and rent with estate agents, you will get a clear idea of the price differences around Greece. For sure spend a holiday here to investigate fully if it is the right place for you. Also consider the winter months, as i know people who live in the North where it is much colder so the cost of heater goes up greatly then. Crete has good facilities, Corfu where you can get a ferry to Italy all year,all the larger islands really. On the mainland you can also look around Kalamata on the West and the resorts south of it like Kardamilli and Stoupa. remember if you buy here always worth putting in a much lower offer than is stated as they are nearly always flexible.


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## dorsetknob

scoobie said:


> Hi , the area that Elen suggested sounds great and for the mainland, Nafplio is wonderful but as Elen said the prices are more expensive there. The cost of rentals depends on what you want, apartment or house? Basically around 400 euros upwards. Electricity has gone up somewhat but still cheaper than the Uk and the Gas bottles for heaters or cooking are around 16 euros a bottle. Water is cheap also. To eat out living here you can do cheaply with the local small tavernas. Shopping is also cheaper than the Uk from what i have been told.
> I think the medical care is better than the Uk, it is easy to book a doctor and also easy to see specialists at the hospitals, a little chaotic but definately easier than getting to see a specialist in the Uk. If you get internet connection then sign up to SKYPE for a few euros a month you can call all over Europe for free, a great invention. I think the best thing is to search on line at the cost to buy and rent with estate agents, you will get a clear idea of the price differences around Greece. For sure spend a holiday here to investigate fully if it is the right place for you. Also consider the winter months, as i know people who live in the North where it is much colder so the cost of heater goes up greatly then. Crete has good facilities, Corfu where you can get a ferry to Italy all year,all the larger islands really. On the mainland you can also look around Kalamata on the West and the resorts south of it like Kardamilli and Stoupa. remember if you buy here always worth putting in a much lower offer than is stated as they are nearly always flexible.


Thanks for all the information and suggestions Scoobie. It all helps us focus on the detail of what we want to do. We have a few months before we can begin to finalise our plans, although on a wet and windy day like we have today, it can't come soon enough. All your help is invaluable, please post again if you think of anything else that might be of interest to us. 

Kind regards Dorsetknob.


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## mike-n

Hello, I am new in this forum, I am Greek, just retired, and looking for a place in Greece, Turkey, Italy, France, or, if I get daring enough, Egypt.

A few comment on what I read above. Yes, make sure there is a hospital on the island you retire. Winter storms cut off islands for weeks. Syros is what I am eying.

Evia? Not my choice. Evia people are sweet, calmer than the average Greek, but inhospitable and independent. Then, there is Larco, a state mining company, the curse of this beautiful island. You may wake up one morning by dynamite explosions.

As for Kardamyli and Stoupa, yes! Beautiful, and Maniates are straightforward people. Hospitable. On the minus side, land is very expensive hear as Germans have moved in. Also the road to Kalamata is winding and not in the best shape.

The villages northwest of Kalamata are something you should look into. Deserted and mostly occupied by old folks, and lots of Albanian farm workers. Cheap land! Beautiful hills, best climate. On the minus side: The Greek Airforce has a pilot training base near Messini. Horrid jet sound almost daily, day and night. People are warm here.

Myself I am considering Syros. It has a history of culture (imagine Greek hunters playing opera records? God my ears suffer with the pathetic laika songs, men singers wailing, a corrupt genre of Turkish music). It has a hospital, a ship yard, orthodox and catholic churches, and till recently it was Italian territory. I would like some culture in people. This you will not find in Evia or Messinia. 

In the same vein, Chios and Lesvos are two island I am considering. Ah! I can visit Turkey in a few minutes daily!

Real estate advice. Why go through realtors? You can save A LOT by consulting local classifieds. I mean a lot! There are several classifieds web pages, one of the busiest is greekads c om


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## dorsetknob

mike-n said:


> Hello, I am new in this forum, I am Greek, just retired, and looking for a place in Greece, Turkey, Italy, France, or, if I get daring enough, Egypt.
> 
> A few comment on what I read above. Yes, make sure there is a hospital on the island you retire. Winter storms cut off islands for weeks. Syros is what I am eying.
> 
> Evia? Not my choice. Evia people are sweet, calmer than the average Greek, but inhospitable and independent. Then, there is Larco, a state mining company, the curse of this beautiful island. You may wake up one morning by dynamite explosions.
> 
> As for Kardamyli and Stoupa, yes! Beautiful, and Maniates are straightforward people. Hospitable. On the minus side, land is very expensive hear as Germans have moved in. Also the road to Kalamata is winding and not in the best shape.
> 
> The villages northwest of Kalamata are something you should look into. Deserted and mostly occupied by old folks, and lots of Albanian farm workers. Cheap land! Beautiful hills, best climate. On the minus side: The Greek Airforce has a pilot training base near Messini. Horrid jet sound almost daily, day and night. People are warm here.
> 
> Myself I am considering Syros. It has a history of culture (imagine Greek hunters playing opera records? God my ears suffer with the pathetic laika songs, men singers wailing, a corrupt genre of Turkish music). It has a hospital, a ship yard, orthodox and catholic churches, and till recently it was Italian territory. I would like some culture in people. This you will not find in Evia or Messinia.
> 
> In the same vein, Chios and Lesvos are two island I am considering. Ah! I can visit Turkey in a few minutes daily!
> 
> Real estate advice. Why go through realtors? You can save A LOT by consulting local classifieds. I mean a lot! There are several classifieds web pages, one of the busiest is greekads c om


Wow what a lot of info, thanks for that mike-n all very helpful, just the sort of thing I'm looking for. I do still need some numbers on what things cost, if you can help. Meanwhile you've given me a lot to think about and lots to focus my research on.

Regards dorsetknob.


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## Janie

*Retirement to greece*



dorsetknob said:


> My wife and I are approaching retirement and are looking for somewhere that our pensions will stretch further than in the UK. We've always liked the Greek Islands, so are trying to get as much unbiased practical information as we can.
> Especially from anyone who has made a similar move. We are thinking of renting initially, so some idea of long term rental rates would be a help. Plus a guide to the cost of living. Health care issues. Suggestions of the most suitable islands/areas. And any more relevant information that anyone has would be greatly appreciated.
> 
> Cheers dorsetknob.


We have already semi-retired to Greece and we chose the beautiful Pelion area. We initially bought a beautiful traditional brick cottage in a mountain village, but realised very quickly that this wasn't working for us - too quiet, not enough variety when eating out etc. So we sold up and bought a piece of land by the coast just at the bottom of the original village and had a house built for us. We have spent the past 8 years living/visiting Pelion and we still think we chose wisely. The nearest large town is Volos where you can buy almost anything you would want, and there is also a large and new hospital. We live in the coastal village of Milina which is very pretty and even in mid-winter most places stay open and residents live here year-round. Hope this is helpful


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## trafforda

Hi Janie

I have heard that to buy land and then have a house built on it is perhaps the best way to get the location and house size/style you want. In your experience, was it difficult to find a builder to build the property you wanted? Did it work out less expensive than trying to buy a similar property already built?
We are looking to retire to Greece or one of the Greek Islands in about 5 years time, and are currently enjoying learning Greek and holidaying in as many of the beautiful Greek Islands that we can - all in the name of research of course!
Alison


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## Janie

*Retiring to greece*



trafforda said:


> Hi Janie
> 
> I have heard that to buy land and then have a house built on it is perhaps the best way to get the location and house size/style you want. In your experience, was it difficult to find a builder to build the property you wanted? Did it work out less expensive than trying to buy a similar property already built?
> We are looking to retire to Greece or one of the Greek Islands in about 5 years time, and are currently enjoying learning Greek and holidaying in as many of the beautiful Greek Islands that we can - all in the name of research of course!
> Alison


Hi Alison, we have actually tried both ways. Our first property purchase in Greece was an old house, which although in good condition structurally, needed internal changes/improvements. It was in a beautiful mountain village in the Pelion region of the mainland and we were lucky enough to meet a local builder to do the work, and he then recommended other tradesmen (electrician, plumber, tiler etc). We loved the house and were pleased with all the work which we had done, but realised quite quickly that the mountain village was a little too remote for us, so we sold it and began looking for a piece of land in another village (very close to original one, but by the coast this time). We are now the very proud owners of a beautiful home in the coastal village of Milina. We bought the land from a local, our .original builder recommended a Mechanical Engineer, we spoke with him and explained what we wanted (number of rooms / sizes / shapes etc) and he produced outline drawings, applied for planning permission on our behalf, and project-managed the build. As in the UK, costs vary depending on location, and coastal villages are more expensive that a few miles outside of the area. Designing your own has many advantages ie you get exactly what you want, and the overall cost for us was certainly much less than buying in the UK but difficult to judge whether we would have paid less for an old property which then needed to be refurbished. Hope this is helpful, but let me know if you have any more questions.

Good Luck with all your plans. Janie


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## jacvin

*retiring*



dorsetknob said:


> My wife and I are approaching retirement and are looking for somewhere that our pensions will stretch further than in the UK. We've always liked the Greek Islands, so are trying to get as much unbiased practical information as we can.
> Especially from anyone who has made a similar move. We are thinking of renting initially, so some idea of long term rental rates would be a help. Plus a guide to the cost of living. Health care issues. Suggestions of the most suitable islands/areas. And any more relevant information that anyone has would be greatly appreciated.
> 
> Cheers dorsetknob.


we live between methoni and koroni in the pelopponese we have been here 3 years.we bought land (very cheaply 5 years ago)and built a house.I think you should rent first and see if you like it in greece if you commit to buying its not good if you don`t like it and renting is very cheap.the cost of living for some things are much cheaper but not like they used to be in fact eating out is the same as britain and food can be very expensive in small supermarkets.we own our own house so we don`t need to pay rent but we live very well on 300 euros a week for 2.We drive home twice a year for xmas and july/august as it is horribly hot and busy then but there is very little to do if you need amusing in winter.there are no queues for doctors and dentists and the hospitals are superb going by my friends visits.hope this helps


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## cmzk77

Anyone have any advice on American employers or English speaking employers anywhere in Greece? I am looking to leave the US in the next 5-7 years, but will only be mid-50's with working years ahead. This is such a wonderful forum full of expertise and information that only you expats can provide. Many thanks.


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## wka

cmz77 - If you are an American citizen (no EU passport) wanting to work legally in Greece, search the forum for my older posts - I have posted multiple times on the legal issues. The short answer is it's almost impossible to do legally. The best way to do it is to discover European lineage and get an EU passport, or marry an EU citizen (although the second option is much more difficult than the first in terms of paperwork). I am married to a Greek (I'm American) and although we've been married since April, I don't expect my work permit to be approved for another year or so, so I can't work during that time. You need to get very informed about the legal aspects before you start to worry about where, what job, and all the rest.


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## KathyK

We retired to Greece 3 years ago, and costs have rocketed this year!!! Petrol is more expensive than UK, so are things like Nova (compared to Sky) and telephone/internet charges are much higher than UK too. We live on an island, large but very low population, only about 200 "foreigners" here (mainly Dutch) as opposed to around 7,000 Greeks. We have never been cut off for "days" on end as per another post, only for a few days since we've been here and for an emergency you will always get a helicopter send over. The doctors are pretty good, but family/friends do most of the nursing if you are in hospital. We find renting relatively expensive, but did own our own home in England. Do you have pets? Cat food extremely expensive, and cat litter - 2 or 3 times the price it is in UK. Meat is cheap we find, can sometimes be difficult to get decent fruit or vegetables. Mainland has probably got the better connections so you'd get a better choice where food items are concerned, though the islands are improving all the time. EVERYTHING is complicated, even the Greeks don't understand the systems!!!! And of course this year the strikes are constant, but you learn to know when to visit the bank, the post office, when to travel (ferries and planes - keep checking the websites for strikes and be prepared to change your travel plans!!). Beware buying land or property, always always problems. Get an independent English or English speaking lawyer whatever you do. Greeks are lovely in life but b.....ds in business.


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## KathyK

Car insurance very expensive too, compared to what we paid in England. I don't think many Greeks take out insurance for travel, house contents etc. But if you are on the Internet it is quite easy to find insurance companies to cover you for all this. Once again, probably easier to find and do in Athens/Thessoloniki etc. On this island and some near us, a detached villa is around 320 to 400 or more euros per month to rent, but they are SMALL. Usually just 2 rooms and a bathroom. Apartments around 250 to 300 euros but obviously bigger ones are more expensive. Electricity, water, dimo charges etc on top of this price. Hope this is of help.


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## hecate

Ummm, yes, Greece is a great place to retire to...IF you're well-prepared. The best advice given here has been to come for an extended stay before- hand. Going through an agent or from what can be gleaned about properties on-line is asking for trouble. And September's by far the best time to get a good deal.

I'm surprised that some find the cost of living better here, since prices have been skyrocketing for quite a while. We've just had another VAT hike which translates to: petrol projected to be close to 2 Euro a LITRE; a cup of [usually bad] coffee 4-5 E, an ouzo 6, etc, etc. Food prices in the larger supermarkets are bad enough, but absurd in the small shops outside major urban areas. My last electric bill was just over 50 euros (for one person in a small flat), with only 9 euro for my actual electric use. All the government's much-touted austerity effort is having a direct and immediate effect on everyday prices. i.e. house owners pay more tax so can charge higher rents...

None of which is to suggest you shouldn't come here - just that you must get beyond the usual hype of how simple and cheap and easy it is here. NOT. [See kathy k's savvy input]

Having said that, you should know that when you're connected/accepted/helped, it can be very satisfactory. Friends from the States are now ensconced in an apartment-with-sea-view on an island that they're paying 250/ month for, have linked up with other expats, and are blissfully exploring "their" new island. It was found because we went scouting and chatted up locals, and negotiated [in greek]. Same way I found my home. 

Please know that the practicalities are not more important than who you are and what you're about. Have you ever lived in a place where you can't communicate easily with others? Where The System doesn't work as you'd expect? Where uncertainty leads to fatalism and attitudes very, umm, foreign to you? Where all that we assume to be givens in modern life may be missing? And where the interests and activities and expertise you've developed over a lifetime simply aren't relevant. Be prepared to develop new ones!

Many islands better than others...let me know if you'd like more input

Cheers,
Hecate, 
Anglo-Yank retiree ( Athens AND Islands)


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## hecate

cmzk77 said:


> Anyone have any advice on American employers or English speaking employers anywhere in Greece? I am looking to leave the US in the next 5-7 years, but will only be mid-50's with working years ahead. This is such a wonderful forum full of expertise and information that only you expats can provide. Many thanks.


Line up job before you leave States [required unless law's been changed] If you're not an EU citizen, or of Greek extraction, you'll find pickings lean indeed unless you want to risk working under the radar. Check with your nearest Greek Embassy.
Cheers, Hecate


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## tpebop

hecate. maybe you should move here to Rhodes.Petrol is @ most 1.58 € , the cheapest is 1.45 € . Coffee is 2 €


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## hecate

tpebop said:


> hecate. maybe you should move here to Rhodes.Petrol is @ most 1.58 € , the cheapest is 1.45 € . Coffee is 2 €


Lucky you, but wait a while - that second VAT increase just took effect and is only beginning to trickle down. Those 2E/litre petrol prices are projections by the economists, other prices are as reported from over half a dozen islands. Depends where on Rodos, of course...you're away from the center of things in Kalithies. What about food prices there? 
Cheers, H


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## KathyK

Further to some recently added posts. Not sure of the cost of petrol here, other than it has gone up alot the past few months. Coffee (Nescafe) here is anything from 1.30 euros to 2.50 euros (overlooking the harbour price compared with back street price) and there are some marvellous "off the beaten track" tavernas, many open all year, where you can still eat the most delicious Greek food and at extremely reasonable prices! Greek coffee is around 1 euro most places. Soft drinks in tavernas once again from 1.30 to 2 euros each. Sometimes if there are problems with ferries food runs a bit low, but we have never had to panic yet. Try it here, the Dutch on this island seem to love living in Greece and most have bought houses. Very few English where we live but a few have been here for about 16 years. Thanks for the kind comment on my post hecate!!


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## hecate

KathyK said:


> Further to some recently added posts. Not sure of the cost of petrol here, other than it has gone up alot the past few months........ Thanks for the kind comment on my post hecate!!


You're welcome Kathy.

Re the prices you and tepbob mention: does the _receipt_ for that 1.50 cup of Greek coffee include 11% FPA? Or 23% tax for the toilet paper and loukaniko you pick up at your local boukaliko? Ditto the receipt from your periptero or gas station or plumber or hairdresser....

You get the point. despite the fact that's the law of the land, business outside the urban areas continues as it always has. I got only a couple of cash register slips when I was last in the islands (a couple of weeks ago), and I don't imagine you're exactly flooded with them. I mention it here because the trickle down process _will_ eventually hit the boonies (our dear leaders are already preparing to tackle "reforming the provinces" after the tourists leave). 

But Dorsetknob, if you're still here, I hope none of this dissuades you. The benefits are many, the harsh realities are often easier to face here, and your search for unbiased info ahead of time suggets you'll take the downside in stride.


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## KathyK

We appear to receive receipts from around 99% of the businesses here, whether it's hairdressers, a coffee shop, greengrocer etc so I think they are aware they can get caught out by the visiting taxmen who travel the islands!!! I don't think the petrol stations give receipts at present. Wouldn't like to pass judgement on the much smaller islands though.


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## hecate

KathyK said:


> We appear to receive receipts from around 99% of the businesses here, whether it's hairdressers, a coffee shop, greengrocer etc so I think they are aware they can get caught out by the visiting taxmen who travel the islands!!! I don't think the petrol stations give receipts at present. Wouldn't like to pass judgement on the much smaller islands though.


Wow. Lucky you. I'm gobsmacked - just in Zakynthos with Greek friends, and that definitely wasn't the case there. Makes Rodos even more appealing


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## hecate

oops. Just saw that "Dodeconese " in your header, Kathy. Am intrigued - are you on Kythera? Hec


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## KathyK

No,we're in the Dodecanese but not Rodos. Don't give too much info over the Internet!!!!


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## wka

If you don't receive a receipt, just ask for one. I ALWAYS ask. I live on a TINY island and always get a receipt. I was in Crete last week and got an official legal receipt from the guy who took my money for the sunlounger on the beach (€2). NEVER leave without a receipt - they all give them now, including petrol stations and farmers' market (laiki). You will need them all next year when you pay your taxes anyway.


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## KathyK

We'll all have to move to bigger houses if we have to keep receipts for things like greengrocers, a couple of cokes at a kiosk etc. !! Big things, yes, we keep them but there's no way anyone can keep every bit of paper. Occasionally we get receipts for sunbeds if we go to another part of the island but that is rare, we have our own beds and umbrellas so that's something we don't do often (pay for sunbeds that is). And I don't think I've received a receipt for the few sunbeds I have used this year. Hopefully the Greeks will start by taxing their own kith and kin before the foreigners. I think maybe the ones paying the taxes are the "foreigners"!!!!


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## wka

Well, I keep, file, and enter ALL receipts into a database (My Money - ????? ??? ?????????? ???, it works well, I can recommend it) and have them all arranged by date in an accordion folder. My husband and I are on a VERY strict budget because his salary was severely reduced thanks to the austerity measures here in Greece so we will have a hard time making the minimum amount. I save all receipts. The smallest one I have is for five cents (an envelope I bought). It doesn't matter how small they are. They add up. Of course if you spend a lot of money anyway, it's easy, I suppose.


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## hecate

wka said:


> If you don't receive a receipt, just ask for one. I ALWAYS ask. I live on a TINY island and always get a receipt. I was in Crete last week and got an official legal receipt from the guy who took my money for the sunlounger on the beach (€2). NEVER leave without a receipt - they all give them now, including petrol stations and farmers' market (laiki). You will need them all next year when you pay your taxes anyway.


Golly, gee, had no idea I could write off my lattes, cocktails, cigarettes, etc. And the nuns where I buy my eggs simply will _not_ get a cash register, sigh.

Sorry, Kathy - will try to be vaguer


----------



## wka

then they're in violation of the law. it's not a question of writing things off... nevermind... clearly my post was misunderstood. By asking for a receipt you are helping to reduce tax evasion, that's the point.


----------



## hecate

wka said:


> then they're in violation of the law. it's not a question of writing things off... nevermind... clearly my post was misunderstood. By asking for a receipt you are helping to reduce tax evasion, that's the point.


"misunderstood"? Hardly. Your point, adamantly made, was recommending all receipts must be kept for tax purposes (5 lepta, etc.) Please don't take this the wrong way, but the tax situation here is complex and extremely fluid, advise is best taken from one's _logistis_ /attorney.

As far as doing my bit help stop tax evasion, well, afraid I'm just not as righteous as you. I admit it, I don't _demand_ a receipts from the old lady at the farm stand/that hard-working family at my favorite little taverna/ the kid who feeds the cats when I'm away. I save my snark for the real problem - the doctors and dentists and lawyers and officials with their hands out and their incomes hidden. 

And no, the nuns aren't breaking the law. Church is above messy things like taxes.

But then we're talking about Greek tax sys and it sounds like that's not relevant to many/most on this board


----------



## wka

Hecate, my apologies, I was very upset when I posted that and you are right, it sounds all wrong. We are fighting with the government too much and it has made me very cynical. 

Personally I collect all receipts because I am not 100% clear on which ones we are supposed to collect and which ones won't count. I've read many articles saying which ones do, but my fear is that things may change when it comes time to turn them in. I enter them all one by one into the online database I mentioned earlier and there are many such sites that are free. I think it is probably a good idea to start doing this sooner rather than later. So far we have over 700 and it would take days if I did them all at once. I get frustrated when I don't get a receipt for something (I don't personally buy anything from the church although in my opinion they should be paying taxes too, but that's neither here nor there) because the government has forced consumers to be watchdogs on this matter and I personally find it very AWKWARD when I don't get a receipt to have to ask for one. However, I have noticed a huge change now compared to February/March - now I only have to ask once/week or so, before I had to ask about half the time I purchased something. 

My husband is a state employee and it is illegal for me to work in Greece so we are extremely poor and we can't afford to pay any of the receipt fine; at the same time we are furious with tax evaders because we CAN'T evade taxes (it's not possible for state employees since the government knows how much they make) AND YET we are the ones who suffer - my husband's salary was cut by so much and it creates a situation where I get very angry when I see someone who owns their own business isn't even willing to cut a receipt for 50 cents. I apologize for putting my feelings into my post and sounding like an a**. I think for me it is a mixture of anger that tax evasion is hurting my husband and me so much, and frustration with the potential fine we may have to pay if we can't get enough receipts that has me very upset about the whole thing.


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## KathyK

Not really an answer to any of the questions posted - we think the best thing to do IF you retire to Greece, or just live in Greece as a "foreigner" is to make sure you have a sense of humour - I am sure the ex-patriots living in this lovely country know exactly what I mean. Nothing gets done, nothing gets done right, nothing/nobody arrives when it should, you really DO need a sense of humour.


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## hecate

Good rule for life, Kathy. Or develop that _te-na-kanoume_ shrug of fatalism.

WKA, no problem. You weren't an ass, just gave iffy advice. And your collecting and recording receipts is great because it gives you a tiny bit of control over a situation in which you're fundamentally powerless.

But as far as this goes:

"...we CAN'T evade taxes (it's not possible for state employees since the government knows how much they make..."

Consider this: our Dear Leaders are so hopelessly muddled that they DON'T KNOW HOW MANY WORK FOR THE STATE - they _estimate_700,000. They've asked all public sector employees to register by email so they can - what - update their records? Honest to gods.

Look, I'm as enraged as you by the unfairness of it all because so many people I care about are getting screwed. They're not the ones who've been stiffing the tourists and ripping of wherever they can, and they're hurting more than even you, facing such unfairness, can imagine. 

Hang in there, and keep in mind they're not the IRS. 

...and we're way off topic, so let's move to the new thread about idiotic rules.

Cheers, Hecate [feel free to pm me if you want some commiseration]


"Hecate, my apologies, I was very upset when I posted that and you are right, it sounds all wrong. We are fighting with the government too much and it has made me very cynical".


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## JennyS

*Moving to Greece*

we retired from UK years a couple of years ago to the island of Evia. Property here is much cheaper than the mainland and some of the other islands. We are in the process of renevating an old stone house. Things are great here close to the sea, close to Athens and airport. No tourists to speak of. A very greek part of greece. One thing you have to get used to is time. There is UK time, rest of the world time and greek time but I would not change it.


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## marlenedel

*Retiring to Greece*

I liked your synopsis on retiring in Greece. I am a 72 year old female with a small dog and since visiting Greece in the late 1980's have been wondering if it would be affordable since I am on a fixed income of around $1,400 a month. Would the islands be any more affordable than living in Athens, Crete or some place else. It is getting too expensive to live in the USA. I am healthy at the present time bud down the road would like to have access to a hospital as I age. Thanking you in advance for your reply, I am
Marlene Del Vecchio
California, USA





hecate said:


> Ummm, yes, Greece is a great place to retire to...IF you're well-prepared. The best advice given here has been to come for an extended stay before- hand. Going through an agent or from what can be gleaned about properties on-line is asking for trouble. And September's by far the best time to get a good deal.
> 
> I'm surprised that some find the cost of living better here, since prices have been skyrocketing for quite a while. We've just had another VAT hike which translates to: petrol projected to be close to 2 Euro a LITRE; a cup of [usually bad] coffee 4-5 E, an ouzo 6, etc, etc. Food prices in the larger supermarkets are bad enough, but absurd in the small shops outside major urban areas. My last electric bill was just over 50 euros (for one person in a small flat), with only 9 euro for my actual electric use. All the government's much-touted austerity effort is having a direct and immediate effect on everyday prices. i.e. house owners pay more tax so can charge higher rents...
> 
> None of which is to suggest you shouldn't come here - just that you must get beyond the usual hype of how simple and cheap and easy it is here. NOT. [See kathy k's savvy input]
> 
> Having said that, you should know that when you're connected/accepted/helped, it can be very satisfactory. Friends from the States are now ensconced in an apartment-with-sea-view on an island that they're paying 250/ month for, have linked up with other expats, and are blissfully exploring "their" new island. It was found because we went scouting and chatted up locals, and negotiated [in greek]. Same way I found my home.
> 
> Please know that the practicalities are not more important than who you are and what you're about. Have you ever lived in a place where you can't communicate easily with others? Where The System doesn't work as you'd expect? Where uncertainty leads to fatalism and attitudes very, umm, foreign to you? Where all that we assume to be givens in modern life may be missing? And where the interests and activities and expertise you've developed over a lifetime simply aren't relevant. Be prepared to develop new ones!
> 
> Many islands better than others...let me know if you'd like more input
> 
> Cheers,
> Hecate,
> Anglo-Yank retiree ( Athens AND Islands)


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## wka

> I liked your synopsis on retiring in Greece. I am a 72 year old female with a small dog and since visiting Greece in the late 1980's have been wondering if it would be affordable since I am on a fixed income of around $1,400 a month. Would the islands be any more affordable than living in Athens, Crete or some place else. It is getting too expensive to live in the USA. I am healthy at the present time bud down the road would like to have access to a hospital as I age. Thanking you in advance for your reply, I am
> Marlene, USA


Hi Marlene,
Welcome to the forum! There are a few things you should know right off the bat:

1. If you are interested in being in Greece for longer than 90 days, you need a residence permit. To get a residence permit, you have to apply for a Schengen Visa (the fact that your passport serves as such for travel is irrelevant - you still need one) through your local consulate. There is a pile of paperwork that has to be turned in at the same time. Once you receive your Schengen Visa, you come to Greece and apply for a residence permit. Since you are retired and will not be working, you don't need a work permit. You MUST prove that you have enough money to support yourself, and health insurance. They will not approve an application from someone who could end up drawing from state services!

2. $1400 is about €1000/month. That's a low salary in Greece but plenty of people - especially if you're only supporting yourself - make it on that. Athens and the islands are both expensive. If you're looking for something less expensive, try a town on the mainland. The islands are expensive because everything has to be brought to the island from the mainland, including drinking water in some cases, and despite the fact that the sales tax (VAT) is lower on the islands, this is likely to change, and it's not nearly enough of a discount to make up the difference. Athens tends to be less expensive for most consumer goods but more expensive for rent. You get the best of both worlds: cheaper rent and cheaper goods, if you live in the "eparchia." But it's up to you. 

3. As far as hospitals go... they vary from place to place but certainly the smaller islands have no hospital!! The island I lived on for a year (just moved a few months ago) had no hospital - you had to go by ferry, fishing boat, or helicopter to the island that did have one. Even on the mainland the hospitals vary in terms of how great they are. In my personal experience (having had relatively significant surgery here), medical care in Greece is excellent, but you do need to be in reach of the facility to use it!


----------



## marlenedel

Thank you for your quick reply and I will take what you said to heart as I continue to review my options.
Marlene



wka said:


> Hi Marlene,
> Welcome to the forum! There are a few things you should know right off the bat:
> 
> 1. If you are interested in being in Greece for longer than 90 days, you need a residence permit. To get a residence permit, you have to apply for a Schengen Visa (the fact that your passport serves as such for travel is irrelevant - you still need one) through your local consulate. There is a pile of paperwork that has to be turned in at the same time. Once you receive your Schengen Visa, you come to Greece and apply for a residence permit. Since you are retired and will not be working, you don't need a work permit. You MUST prove that you have enough money to support yourself, and health insurance. They will not approve an application from someone who could end up drawing from state services!
> 
> 2. $1400 is about €1000/month. That's a low salary in Greece but plenty of people - especially if you're only supporting yourself - make it on that. Athens and the islands are both expensive. If you're looking for something less expensive, try a town on the mainland. The islands are expensive because everything has to be brought to the island from the mainland, including drinking water in some cases, and despite the fact that the sales tax (VAT) is lower on the islands, this is likely to change, and it's not nearly enough of a discount to make up the difference. Athens tends to be less expensive for most consumer goods but more expensive for rent. You get the best of both worlds: cheaper rent and cheaper goods, if you live in the "eparchia." But it's up to you.
> 
> 3. As far as hospitals go... they vary from place to place but certainly the smaller islands have no hospital!! The island I lived on for a year (just moved a few months ago) had no hospital - you had to go by ferry, fishing boat, or helicopter to the island that did have one. Even on the mainland the hospitals vary in terms of how great they are. In my personal experience (having had relatively significant surgery here), medical care in Greece is excellent, but you do need to be in reach of the facility to use it!


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## Judy Tyrosvoutis

We moved here to an area near Patra on the seaside. We built a home during the years 2000-2004. Since we were still in the USA it took several trips to get some things done and decided.
Our little plot of land was given to us by my father-in -law and we built on it. It is seaside on the Patras Gulf.
Summer is so nice, all the other residents come , the street is filled with cars, kids are playing, people are walking visiting talking, swimming. Then September everyone disappears.
They go to their winter dwellings for school, work and heated homes.
The peacefulness is quite a shock after each colorful summer. It is a bit depressing and lonely.
I always think about finding a place in the big city during this time, to be able to walk out my door and see people! To shop without using a car to get to the next town, to be able to buy just what I need for the day or 2 instead of a car full to the brim (to avoid shopping so often)!
Patras area is very expensive, the city is in a constant state of road repairs for the last 7 years. Earthquake damaged buildings are still being torn down, and constant excavations keep different roads inaccessible with no warning or alternate routes..SURPRISE! You can't get there from here! : > )


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## mudman

*Gloom & Doom- visit first*

I have been living here for over 30 years & all I can say is you had better have money is you want to live well. 2500 Euro a month & I have no debts. More so now than before the Euro. I live in a suburb of Athens, Halandri. As all places it has grown but is still a non violent and close to everything. I live in a very quite area close to the embassies, transport, stores & can be in the center in 15 minutes subway. 
If you are used to living in the UK country side you can probably live in one of the more remote areas in Greece but is you are not don't try it. 
The same goes if you have ANY health or mobility problems. God help you if you are wheelchair bound. 
I have a private UK health insurance that costs us a lot but I sleep well know I can afford to go to any hospital here or anywhere in the world as I wish. IKA is a disaster. Yes you can see doctors & get operations but you will still have to pay under the table for it & most of the hospital are crowed, dirty & with very limited facilities. Most vets have better facilities in the UK. If you have a serious problem: cancer, chronic problems & such unless you have money forget it. I could write a book on the people I know that thought they would be taken care of by IKA & paid the price, sometimes with their life. If nurses & aids are not paid well & then not for 4 months at a clip what do you expect! 
For example: I have many of these stories but I recently had someone with cancer, & not much money, stay in the hospital for 6 weeks prior to death. IKA pays for a nurse for 8 hours a day @ night. Who watches you for the rest of the 16 hours,hanges sheets when you dirty them, feeds & washes you & moves you, NO ONE. You have to hire private people, not registered who get min. 7 to 10 Euro an hour & more on the weekend. That's about 5000 Euro for the stay plus a LOT of extras. No free papers, creams. or even urine bags! You pay for everything. See for yourself & go to a few of them it will be full of relatives that cannot afford this amount & literally live there until the end one way or the other.
The care is as minimal as it can be. There are some nice ones but far & few between & if you problem is not specific to that hospital you WILL BE MOVED to the specialty one that is usually the worst. 
I love Greece & have the finances to remain here otherwise I would go elsewhere. Nothing is cheap here anymore & except for the weather it is nearly as expensive as the UK.
Panama maybe. GREAT HOSPITAL & RETIREMENT Programs if you like the life.

I expect a lot of rants from this but the bottom line is to come here& rent for a few months, see some state hospitals, look at the living costs & ask questions. 

These are supposed to be your twilight years don't make them your midnight ones!


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## Judy Tyrosvoutis

mudman said:


> I have been living here for over 30 years & all I can say is you had better have money is you want to live well. 2500 Euro a month & I have no debts. More so now than before the Euro. I live in a suburb of Athens, Halandri. As all places it has grown but is still a non violent and close to everything. I live in a very quite area close to the embassies, transport, stores & can be in the center in 15 minutes subway.
> If you are used to living in the UK country side you can probably live in one of the more remote areas in Greece but is you are not don't try it.
> The same goes if you have ANY health or mobility problems. God help you if you are wheelchair bound.
> I have a private UK health insurance that costs us a lot but I sleep well know I can afford to go to any hospital here or anywhere in the world as I wish. IKA is a disaster. Yes you can see doctors & get operations but you will still have to pay under the table for it & most of the hospital are crowed, dirty & with very limited facilities. Most vets have better facilities in the UK. If you have a serious problem: cancer, chronic problems & such unless you have money forget it. I could write a book on the people I know that thought they would be taken care of by IKA & paid the price, sometimes with their life. If nurses & aids are not paid well & then not for 4 months at a clip what do you expect!
> For example: I have many of these stories but I recently had someone with cancer, & not much money, stay in the hospital for 6 weeks prior to death. IKA pays for a nurse for 8 hours a day @ night. Who watches you for the rest of the 16 hours,hanges sheets when you dirty them, feeds & washes you & moves you, NO ONE. You have to hire private people, not registered who get min. 7 to 10 Euro an hour & more on the weekend. That's about 5000 Euro for the stay plus a LOT of extras. No free papers, creams. or even urine bags! You pay for everything. See for yourself & go to a few of them it will be full of relatives that cannot afford this amount & literally live there until the end one way or the other.
> The care is as minimal as it can be. There are some nice ones but far & few between & if you problem is not specific to that hospital you WILL BE MOVED to the specialty one that is usually the worst.
> I love Greece & have the finances to remain here otherwise I would go elsewhere. Nothing is cheap here anymore & except for the weather it is nearly as expensive as the UK.
> Panama maybe. GREAT HOSPITAL & RETIREMENT Programs if you like the life.
> 
> I expect a lot of rants from this but the bottom line is to come here& rent for a few months, see some state hospitals, look at the living costs & ask questions.
> 
> These are supposed to be your twilight years don't make them your midnight ones!


The hospitals here in Patra are as you describe. Very disturbing after my 50 years of experiencing the sterile hospital and clinic environment in the USA.

I do still find that the food quality and prices are less expensive (for now!), especially at the laiki agora (peoples market).

I still wonder and am puzzled by many of the laws and methodology of government here. For example, to order the pump truck for our septic I have to go the the sanitation department and get the paper with the order, then go to another building and pay the fee, then go back to the sanitation department and turn in my paid receipt. Seems like so many things could be simplified and so many Gov't employees are actually redundant and do not have the attitude that they are public employees. So many of the Gov't employees I have had the misfortune to need a service from seem to act like they are doing you a special favor- just for doing their job. mmmm...


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## marlenedel

Luckily, I am very healthy only visiting a doctor for a once a year physical, but who knows what can happen down the road. I love the beach so I think I will stick with Central America because I can tell from most posts that Europe is going to be much more expensive. It is my favorite location, but we must do what we can afford. Thank you all for your posts that helped me make up my mind.
Marlene


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## Chalkie

Hi,

My wife & I retired and spend time in Greece when it suits us. We have a house on Aegina which is very convenient to get to from Athens Airport. Life here suits us nicely but my advice is :

1. Don't give up a firm base in UK. I've lived and worked abroad in many places in my life. UK is, actually, a great place. You only appreciate it when you leave it.

2. Life in Greece is NOT inexpensive.

3. Whatever you think your budget is - double it!

4. Always ask three people for advice on any subject and then trust your own judgement.

On the big plus side, we went for a swim today and the water was WARM!

Good luck!

Chalkie

QUOTE=dorsetknob;158386]My wife and I are approaching retirement and are looking for somewhere that our pensions will stretch further than in the UK. We've always liked the Greek Islands, so are trying to get as much unbiased practical information as we can.
Especially from anyone who has made a similar move. We are thinking of renting initially, so some idea of long term rental rates would be a help. Plus a guide to the cost of living. Health care issues. Suggestions of the most suitable islands/areas. And any more relevant information that anyone has would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers dorsetknob.[/QUOTE]


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## PVA

dorsetknob said:


> My wife and I are approaching retirement and are looking for somewhere that our pensions will stretch further than in the UK. We've always liked the Greek Islands, so are trying to get as much unbiased practical information as we can.
> Especially from anyone who has made a similar move. We are thinking of renting initially, so some idea of long term rental rates would be a help. Plus a guide to the cost of living. Health care issues. Suggestions of the most suitable islands/areas. And any more relevant information that anyone has would be greatly appreciated.
> 
> Cheers dorsetknob.


Hi Dorsetknob

I think that you have a wealth of advice from other EPAT forum colleagues already, but just to add a little more, we moved to the beautiful island of Kefalonia in the summer and a two bed detached bungalow costs around 400 euros a month to rent with water costing next to nothing and electricity bills and heating oil costs in line with the UK. As other members say, general shopping is quite expensive with tha absence of supermarket offers except Lidl. If I offer one piece of advice it is most definately to rent a property while you settle into your new country giving you time to get to know local areas and their dynamics well before making major purchase commitments. In the current climate it also protects you from new property taxes being levied on property owners. If you require any assistance with removal to Greece then I have contacts that may be useful to you - don't hesitate to ask. I have absolutely no regrets about the move and renting for the forseeable future and love the island in which I now live which is only 3 hours by daily ferry from Patras on the mainland.
Kind Regards
PVA


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## mike-n

mike-n said:


> Hello, I am new in this forum, I am Greek, just retired, and looking for a place in Greece, Turkey, Italy, France, or, if I get daring enough, Egypt.
> 
> A few comment on what I read above. Yes, make sure there is a hospital on the island you retire. Winter storms cut off islands for weeks. Syros is what I am eying.
> 
> Evia? Not my choice. Evia people are sweet, calmer than the average Greek, but inhospitable and independent. Then, there is Larco, a state mining company, the curse of this beautiful island. You may wake up one morning by dynamite explosions.
> 
> As for Kardamyli and Stoupa, yes! Beautiful, and Maniates are straightforward people. Hospitable. On the minus side, land is very expensive hear as Germans have moved in. Also the road to Kalamata is winding and not in the best shape.
> 
> The villages northwest of Kalamata are something you should look into. Deserted and mostly occupied by old folks, and lots of Albanian farm workers. Cheap land! Beautiful hills, best climate. On the minus side: The Greek Airforce has a pilot training base near Messini. Horrid jet sound almost daily, day and night. People are warm here.
> 
> Myself I am considering Syros. It has a history of culture (imagine Greek hunters playing opera records? God my ears suffer with the pathetic laika songs, men singers wailing, a corrupt genre of Turkish music). It has a hospital, a ship yard, orthodox and catholic churches, and till recently it was Italian territory. I would like some culture in people. This you will not find in Evia or Messinia.
> 
> In the same vein, Chios and Lesvos are two island I am considering. Ah! I can visit Turkey in a few minutes daily!
> 
> Real estate advice. Why go through realtors? You can save A LOT by consulting local classifieds. I mean a lot! There are several classifieds web pages, one of the busiest is greekads c om


Addendum April 2013
Evia people ARE more friendly and gentler than the mainland Greeks. What a difference if you compare them with Peloponnesians! However, there is one thing that you should keep in mind, in addition to the above. Eviotes (Euboeans) will not help you with any problems you may have, e.g. finding a home, or personal emergencies. They will invite you to their homes, something that the Peloponnesians do not do as a rule, but do not ask them to do something for you, even if it is an emergency. The other place I encountered this was in Puerto Rico. Really friendly people and straightforward, unlike backstabbing Americans, but do not ask them to do something for you.

Maniates (Kardamyli and the general area) are straightforward but hospitality has waned as traditions are put aside. 

One common trait with Peloponnesians and Evia people is their cruelty to animals. If you are sensitive to animal cruelty stay off these places. In Evia they poisoned one of my dogs (I had three dogs), and forced me to move 4 times in 5 years, on two of those occasions threatening to kill me if I did not move out within te few hours. The police made fun of the event and went on the side of the owners. 

A very recent horrifying incident of Anna, a brave horse, has shaken up animal lovers. You may read the story at 

Tourists to Greece could help change some nasty traits in Greeks, who are nice and in may respects lovable, by giving publicity to objectionable behaviors, and not giving their business to these areas.


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## The Grocer

Originally Posted by mike-n 
: The Greek Airforce has a pilot training base near Messini. Horrid jet sound almost daily, day and night. 
************************************************************************

I live to the west of Kalamata airport, in fact I can just see it from the balcony of my house. Training flights tend to head north-east and very seldom at night. Just 15 minutes from the venue we hear no noise at all this side......


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## levemal

mike-n,hello.i fully agree with you about Eviotes (Euboeans).
Have been living here for 20 years,raised my sons......
live 50 meters from sea but have no friends nor find people here grateful.
Nearing the age of 60,am also considering Syros since have read there is a hospital
on island;also,travelling to nearby islands seems fun in summer.
I do need more information about Syros before deciding.thanks for sharing levemal


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## levemal

Hello,
Before buying anywhere,I suggest renting for a full year,to be sure you like the new move.
Once sure,then buy if you want own home.
Each country has its plus and minus and we all are unique giving us the
freedom to choose where to live to fulfill our needs.
I personally am looking at island of Syros information online before I decide
to move from euboia.


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## karenh1963

*moving to Greese*



scoobie said:


> Hi , the area that Elen suggested sounds great and for the mainland, Nafplio is wonderful but as Elen said the prices are more expensive there. The cost of rentals depends on what you want, apartment or house? Basically around 400 euros upwards. Electricity has gone up somewhat but still cheaper than the Uk and the Gas bottles for heaters or cooking are around 16 euros a bottle. Water is cheap also. To eat out living here you can do cheaply with the local small tavernas. Shopping is also cheaper than the Uk from what i have been told.
> I think the medical care is better than the Uk, it is easy to book a doctor and also easy to see specialists at the hospitals, a little chaotic but definately easier than getting to see a specialist in the Uk. If you get internet connection then sign up to SKYPE for a few euros a month you can call all over Europe for free, a great invention. I think the best thing is to search on line at the cost to buy and rent with estate agents, you will get a clear idea of the price differences around Greece. For sure spend a holiday here to investigate fully if it is the right place for you. Also consider the winter months, as i know people who live in the North where it is much colder so the cost of heater goes up greatly then. Crete has good facilities, Corfu where you can get a ferry to Italy all year,all the larger islands really. On the mainland you can also look around Kalamata on the West and the resorts south of it like Kardamilli and Stoupa. remember if you buy here always worth putting in a much lower offer than is stated as they are nearly always flexible.


Hi Scoobie
My Name is Karen, I have read your messages and im very impressed with your information, you have answered most of the questions I was looking at asking someone, the problem I have is finding a real estate agent that has long term rentals, as we are looking at moving too, do you know how I can get any information of this please. thank you:fingerscrossed:


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## karenh1963

*moving soon*



JennyS said:


> we retired from UK years a couple of years ago to the island of Evia. Property here is much cheaper than the mainland and some of the other islands. We are in the process of renevating an old stone house. Things are great here close to the sea, close to Athens and airport. No tourists to speak of. A very greek part of greece. One thing you have to get used to is time. There is UK time, rest of the world time and greek time but I would not change it.


Hi Jenny
Do you know where we could find some long term rentals in Evia, because we would prefer to rent for a couple of years before making any major decisions on buying. where you are sounds ideal for us not too touristy 

Karen


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## levemal

Hello Karen,
which part of Evia are you interested in?There are many UK citizens in town
of Zarka;there s an English broker,Mary Dallas,who helps UK's in finding homes to rent/buy.
I am living near Aliveri(3 kilometers away).Zarka town is about 30 kilometers away.
Another great town right by sea,not touristy is Styra.One can get there both by ferry or driving around.You may want to give more information so I can write you here.
The Broker's phone number is:2223053588 and cell phone 6976817813.
hope this helps you.


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## karenh1963

*living in greese*



levemal said:


> Hello Karen,
> which part of Evia are you interested in?There are many UK citizens in town
> of Zarka;there s an English broker,Mary Dallas,who helps UK's in finding homes to rent/buy.
> I am living near Aliveri(3 kilometers away).Zarka town is about 30 kilometers away.
> Another great town right by sea,not touristy is Styra.One can get there both by ferry or driving around.You may want to give more information so I can write you here.
> The Broker's phone number is:2223053588 and cell phone 6976817813.
> hope this helps you.


Hi Levemal
Thank you for your feedback, and thank you for the contacts, at the moment we are undecided to where we will be settling but our plans are to gather as much info as possible, then make a detailed visit to the areas we like and then make our decision on location. we are both in our mid 50s, and our income to live on when we move will be £1500 pm until we get our pensions then we will be comfortable and can enjoy our retirement, we enjoy a simple life but we also enjoy socialising. keep in touch on one of your posts you mentioned Syros? another island we like the look of.

Karen


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## levemal

Hello Karen again,
Yes,Syros is considered the most organized island(an hr. away from beautiful Myconos too)
and many more islands.you may wish to check islands one can visit.
About Syros,I would choose since it has an airpot,
a small hospital for emergency use and just beautiful island combining social but also
quietness by choice.
My idea for Syros was to be around foreigners as well in winter.Euboia is pretty dead in winter;internet gets cut off when we have thunderstorms,as all small towns except big citie.hahahha
Aliveri is 2 hrs. drive to Athens;one hr. drive to Halkis to get to hospital.Aliveri has all doctors
reached from Zarka,Styra and other small villages.
Can't tell you if your money will be enough to rent,and pay bills,etc.;does depend
what one wishes to rent!
hope i helped a bit.


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## karenh1963

levemal said:


> Hello Karen again,
> Yes,Syros is considered the most organized island(an hr. away from beautiful Myconos too)
> and many more islands.you may wish to check islands one can visit.
> About Syros,I would choose since it has an airpot,
> a small hospital for emergency use and just beautiful island combining social but also
> quietness by choice.
> My idea for Syros was to be around foreigners as well in winter.Euboia is pretty dead in winter;internet gets cut off when we have thunderstorms,as all small towns except big citie.hahahha
> Aliveri is 2 hrs. drive to Athens;one hr. drive to Halkis to get to hospital.Aliveri has all doctors
> reached from Zarka,Styra and other small villages.
> Can't tell you if your money will be enough to rent,and pay bills,etc.;does depend
> what one wishes to rent!
> hope i helped a bit.


Hi Levermal
Thanks for your help, we have decided to move to Aliveri, so now just looking for the right place to rent, we also contacted Mary on the number you gave us and she is very helpful, she is looking for some places for us and said to thank you for forwarding her contact details to me. Mary has also offered us a place to stay for when we come to visit prior to our move. which is March next year (cant come sooner. so when we do get there I would like to meet you and buy you a drink to thank you properly.
:first:


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## levemal

Wonderful!great to meet you too.plz contact me on facebook,Marina Anna Leventis to speak privately via
chat or send me email [email protected].I can also help you find an aprtmant to live without any commision!A friendly gesture for new friends.


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## levemal

Aliveri Evia | Aliveri Information | Aliveri Weather | Aliveri Map | Greece.com
Aliveri - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Panoramio - Photos by Zarka.gr > evia
Chalkis Travel Guide - VirtualTourist
Visit Greece | Chalkida


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## karenh1963

*moving to Evia*



elen said:


> Hi,
> there are many nice areas that you can look into. Apart from the well known big islands, I would advise you to consider the island of Evoia, because it is very close to Athens airport, it has a bridge that connects it to the mainland, a new road is currently under construction that will make access a lot easier, it is not very expensive, it has great beaches, it is full of trees, and it still has life during the winter. Basically you can enjoy all the facilities of Athens (hospitals, large shopping malls etc) within 1,5 hour distance without having to worry for a boat. Furthermore, I would advise you to look into the area of Peloponnese - especially the south. I suggest this for the same reasons, though take in consideration that this part of Greece is slightly more expensive because it is crowded withh foreigners who have discovered it 10 years ago and they have made the prices rise a lot... If you chose something in the mainland or connected to the mainland and in any case close to Athens, you do not have to worry if easyjet or any other company change their minds in the future and stop flights close to your home...If you choose to live in a village in Evoia, you can probably have all your basic needs (electricity, water, transport, modest house, telephone, food etc) without having to spend more than 1200 - 1300 Euros per month. But this always depends on the kind of lifestyle each one of us has - I am sure people can get along with less (I can't imagine life without the internet and that costs for example), while others may need a lot more than that.


hi elen
thanks to your post, we have decided on moving to Evia, and we are now looking for rented accommodation in three places Aliveri, kymi or Zarakes, we have made a contact with a real estate agent Mary Dallis, and she is looking for us which is grate, we would also like to ask anyone who knows of any rental properties for long term let, we would like either a house or maisonette two bed furnished, we have two cats (which may make a difference) and we are looking at paying around 400euros a month rent. if you know of any one who could help then please let me know I would be grateful for any information. we will be moving over 1st March next year. AND CAN'T WAIT :fingerscrossed: Karen. p.s. we are retiring not looking for work


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## FlowerFairy5457

Janie said:


> We have already semi-retired to Greece and we chose the beautiful Pelion area. We initially bought a beautiful traditional brick cottage in a mountain village, but realised very quickly that this wasn't working for us - too quiet, not enough variety when eating out etc. So we sold up and bought a piece of land by the coast just at the bottom of the original village and had a house built for us. We have spent the past 8 years living/visiting Pelion and we still think we chose wisely. The nearest large town is Volos where you can buy almost anything you would want, and there is also a large and new hospital. We live in the coastal village of Milina which is very pretty and even in mid-winter most places stay open and residents live here year-round. Hope this is helpful


Hello, not sure how recent your comments are but they caught my eye as my husband and I are contemplating retiring to Greece (perhaps next year). We currently live in Australia (have dual Australian/British citizenship). I have had a quick look at the Pelion/Milina area and it does indeed have its appeal. Australia and Greece have a reciprocal arrangements whereby we can obtain our Australian pension in Greece (which would be our main source of income). You mention a hospital in Volos but one thing I have not as yet researched properly is healthcare in Greece. I am not sure how the reciprocal agreement between Australian and Greece assists in this regard (I will further research). The main purpose of this message is to ask how safe (in the monetary sense) is living in Greece now? I assume the cost of living is still reasonable. Again, I am unsure of healthcare. We do not speak Greek. Any advice on the current situation on life in Greece would be most appreciated. Thank you and kind regards,


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## FlowerFairy5457

After reading Janie's comments on Pelion and Milina, we have had a quick 'squizzy' and it looks the ideal region for us! We have lived in Australia for 40-odd years and are ready to retire to somewhere else while there is still some life in us! As Australia and Greece have a reciprocal agreement re aged pension (i.e. we can receive our Australian pension while in Greece) and also it appears simple to exchange our driving licences for a Greek one without having to re-sit a driving test. Our main concern now is the health care (or lack thereof). We explored private health care (e.g. BUPA) and we would have to take out a mortgage to pay for it! In excess of USD22,000.00 per year!!!!! I mean they have got to be joking! Does anyone know if one becomes a resident of Greece (we have dual Australian/British citizenship so can come in on our British passport if necessary) can one link in to the private Greek health care or even IKA at a reasonable premium per year? Health care is the one thing that is worrying us and may be the biggest fly in the ointment.


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## concertina

*health care in greece*

Bupa is known to be crazy prices,greece has General and Alliance,check their prices,my husband works at athens airport and it insures some staff under Allianze and General,you must remember greece has everywhere private clinics that are very reasonably priced,all the test you want,mamagrams,smears,CAT scans,MRI etc...not so expensive,your main concern needs to be the possibility of any surgery required which you would want to go privately I can assure you.You would not be entitled to state health care,but there are private surgeons everywhere,they work in private hospitals all day and have private clinics in the evenings,I recently had a small growth taken off of my head and stitched up,growth inspected in the lab,150 euro,my digital mamagram was 60,smear was 30,I have a great gynee female private doctor,consultation and internal ultra sound scan of the uterus was 60 ,I do have IKA but if I have the money I go it on my own,Dont be scared,all is possible,you just got to check things out,the thing is very often you can say to a private surgeon......can we use a cheaper hospital please so that the insurance company doesnt go ape on me,Allianze paid out 18.000 for an op for me,we had to lie and say we were paying ourselves because private hospitals charge loads more if you tell them that you have private cover,they basically rip off the private medical companies which in turn makes your policy more expensive every year,so watch that.


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## manuka

I really enjoyed catching up on this thread while also reading the 'driving to Greece' thread. both of these threads started in 2009 and I am curious to know how you are all getting on? the whole world is probably now aware of the problems in Greece. How has this affected you all, who retired here? We are currently in the Peloponnese on holiday for3 weeks.we really would like to retire here.we would long term rent if we did retire here and use our rent on our house in UK which would bring around monthly £600 . Could this cover rent here do you think,I am hoping with some left over! How do electric,water rates etc compare to UK and have they risen since you first lived here? We need to work a bit longer to establish some hope of retiring here I think. I am a tutor in UK having retired as a teacher, and am not hopeful of finding any pupils here in the current economic climate in Greece but maybe there are still some well off folks who might want their children coached to communicate in perfect english? :juggle: do you think? Yes I'd certainly need to earn something if we came to live here. Please share if you are expat in Greece how things have developed now for you. Thanks ,Jacquie


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## concertina

manuka said:


> I really enjoyed catching up on this thread while also reading the 'driving to Greece' thread. both of these threads started in 2009 and I am curious to know how you are all getting on? the whole world is probably now aware of the problems in Greece. How has this affected you all, who retired here? We are currently in the Peloponnese on holiday for3 weeks.we really would like to retire here.we would long term rent if we did retire here and use our rent on our house in UK which would bring around monthly £600 . Could this cover rent here do you think,I am hoping with some left over! How do electric,water rates etc compare to UK and have they risen since you first lived here? We need to work a bit longer to establish some hope of retiring here I think. I am a tutor in UK having retired as a teacher, and am not hopeful of finding any pupils here in the current economic climate in Greece but maybe there are still some well off folks who might want their children coached to communicate in perfect english? :juggle: do you think? Yes I'd certainly need to earn something if we came to live here. Please share if you are expat in Greece how things have developed now for you. Thanks ,Jacquie


I am not retired here but have been here many years and can answer some of your questions.You would find it difficult to find private teaching work here,I know that Greek English teachers are desperate to find teaching in Frontasterias(evening schools) for various subjects.I used to teach privately conversation at home before the crisis but not now,they wont or cant pay,the lower I go on price per hour,still they say no,so I refuse to do it for nothing.You must remember that most Greeks speak English and are mostly the English teachers here,people dont care about it not being the mother tongue of the teacher here or the pronunciation,they just need to speak or write English.Even at the Frontasterias Greeks earn a pittance,the good old days of Greece have gone and if you come to the cities you will see the true extent of the dire situation here,people here do not run around with a hat on which says,Im desperate,Im hungry,I have no job or I am being exploited to death on 2 euro an hour,well actually less than that as I know many people on five euro a day and they thank God for small mercies.they are just flies buzzing about in their own world,seemingly to an on-looker like someone who is OK but actually far from it and even the well- off folks have pulled back in fear of the next assault on their pockets.So only come here if you can make it financially on the monies you will have coming in away from employment.If you are careful how much you pay for your rent,like 200 or 250,something with a garden for a few veggies,but the street food markets are real cheap especially at near closing time,you will be able to make it here but with care and perhaps that will require a change of lifestyle and mentality but the rewards of living here would certainly be well worth it.Try to definatly find a rental place which has a solar hot water panel,save you lots of money,save your grey waste water for the garden and the rain water off the roof,try to rent a small house so that your bills are autonomous,your main concern must be your health-care.I did see a expat on here,a member say that he gets a Greek public health book entitlement because he has a British(EU)pension which completely covers him here so scroll down to read this.You can have a good life here if you plan well and show restraint with your style of living.


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## manuka

concertina said:


> I am not retired here but have been here many years and can answer some of your questions.You would find it difficult to find private teaching work here,I know that Greek English teachers are desperate to find teaching in Frontasterias(evening schools) for various subjects.I used to teach privately conversation at home before the crisis but not now,they wont or cant pay,the lower I go on price per hour,still they say no,so I refuse to do it for nothing.You must remember that most Greeks speak English and are mostly the English teachers here,people dont care about it not being the mother tongue of the teacher here or the pronunciation,they just need to speak or write English.Even at the Frontasterias Greeks earn a pittance,the good old days of Greece have gone and if you come to the cities you will see the true extent of the dire situation here,people here do not run around with a hat on which says,Im desperate,Im hungry,I have no job or I am being exploited to death on 2 euro an hour,well actually less than that as I know many people on five euro a day and they thank God for small mercies.they are just flies buzzing about in their own world,seemingly to an on-looker like someone who is OK but actually far from it and even the well- off folks have pulled back in fear of the next assault on their pockets.So only come here if you can make it financially on the monies you will have coming in away from employment.If you are careful how much you pay for your rent,like 200 or 250,something with a garden for a few veggies,but the street food markets are real cheap especially at near closing time,you will be able to make it here but with care and perhaps that will require a change of lifestyle and mentality but the rewards of living here would certainly be well worth it.Try to definatly find a rental place which has a solar hot water panel,save you lots of money,save your grey waste water for the garden and the rain water off the roof,try to rent a small house so that your bills are autonomous,your main concern must be your health-care.I did see a expat on here,a member say that he gets a Greek public health book entitlement because he has a British(EU)pension which completely covers him here so scroll down to read this.You can have a good life here if you plan well and show restraint with your style of living.


Thank you for your honest response and for taking the time. My husband is Polish and we have had some conversations while here about the struggles they went through when Poland was in crisis.he does remember people being desperate and working a week for the equivalent of 15euros and shops being bare.Still they got through and the Greeks will surely find a way too. here in the Peloponnese it seems people have their gardens full ofveg and fruit I notice since last year so extensions to the little farms and some cows being kept on one- just 5/6 but still enterprising.. onstruction seems to be going ahead now.Greeks busy on them working.We went to methoni yesterday. the archeological repairs and restructuring is going well.so this has heartened us for the Greeks we see here. There are 2 supermarkets. They have their family working in one totally.the young have restructed and modernised the aisles and can explain everything in perfect English and also understand anything you say in English. Plus they are full of energy and happy.so a good place to go. If I came here I think I'd go home in July august to teach a course and get some money to bring back. Was chilly in this lovely apartment last few days so, be good to have house with a fire place working for sure.the solar panels too! I wonder if the people who wrote from 2009 and who came are still in Greece?


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## concertina

Manuka hi,yes you have right the Greek people are turning back to the land with small holdings,where we have our cottage a guy has 3 cows and just added a bull and sheep,people let him cut all the grass on their land for hay and straw,it saves them tending to the land because they mostly live in Athens.We buy fresh milk from him for just one euro fifty for one and half litre and boil it up.We also buy free range eggs at 30 cents each.I used to always go back to the UK in July and August as I found those months too hot for me but now cant afford to do so,but you having work would be good,even if you paid 3.50 for a house you would still have change from your English rent.I wish all to work out for you,let us know with some up-dates.


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## manuka

Thanks. Concertina.and good luck too you as well.


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