# Retirement options



## ViaVinho (Jul 29, 2016)

Hello all,
retirement might permit a number of years of good health to enjoy life, but inevitably, one must consider the likelihood of declining health and increasing frailty. Retirement homes or seniors’ residences are relatively common in North America and a few other countries, but not in Europe. 

Thus my questions:
1. Are there reasonably-priced homes with a range of services from independent living to assisted living to care and nursing options in Spain or Portugal? Luxury 5-star establishments are beyond my means.
2. As an alternative, were one to buy on a golf or vacation resort, what sort of services could be obtained nearby to approximate independent living, assisted living and perhaps some care without nosebleed prices?
3. Are there any seniors’ communities that have established or organized such facilities themselves?
4. Use a wait-and-see approach in case more options become available?
5. How are you planning to deal with these eventualities? I’d find this of much interest, especially if you have some useful suggestions to consider.

The best option to me seems an integrated situation where one could gradually transition, in place/locally, through all the stages, from independent living to full care, as the need arises. Making big changes in later life when one's physical and mental resources are compromised I’d think better avoided by effective planning. I’d not like to be reliant on friends and family for support - they have their own lives to live.

Looking forward to what you have to say and I hope you have given this some thought!
VV.


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## woodpecker9 (Jan 22, 2021)

ViaVinho said:


> Hello all,
> retirement might permit a number of years of good health to enjoy life, but inevitably, one must consider the likelihood of declining health and increasing frailty. Retirement homes or seniors’ residences are relatively common in North America and a few other countries, but not in Europe.
> 
> Thus my questions:
> ...


It is difficult to judge what you consider reasonably priced, that opinion would vary by the wealth of the person paying.

In Spain, it is traditional for family members to care for their elderly but in the UK the reverse where it is seen as the state's responsibility and the taxpayer's duty to pay.


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

woodpecker9 said:


> In Spain, it is traditional for family members to care for their elderly but in the UK the reverse where it is seen as the state's responsibility and the taxpayer's duty to pay.


If that were still the case it begs the question as to why there are now so many residencias for the elderly in Spain (and they certainly do not cater only for foreign residents).

For the OP, you could enter details of any area in Spain on this site and get some details about the residencias in that area. Some of them include their prices and some don't.






Info residencias geriatricas - Residencia tercera edad mayores y ancianos


Buscador de plazas libres en residencias de 3a edad, ancianos y geriátricos con precio, servicios, situación, opiniones y comparador




www.inforesidencias.com


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## ViaVinho (Jul 29, 2016)

Thank you, that is helpful. I saw some of these for Portugal (Orpea residences), but was thinking that there must be more options than these types of residences. VV


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

I guess the options are much the same in any country. Firstly, those approaching old age should (if they are sensible) look at wherever they are living (the area and accessibility of amenities as well as their own home) and assess whether it will be suitable for their needs in later life. We did that rather earlier than most people probably would, as I was facing recuperation from major surgery in my early 60s and it made us think about how diifficult it would be to cope where we were living at that time. So we sold up and moved to a top floor apartment in a building with a lift, no more than a level 5 minute walk from the shops and bus station, and only 2 minutes' walk from the health centre and nearest farmacia. We renovated the apartment and did things like replacing the baths with walk-in showers and planning the kitchen to minimise having to crouch down to get things out of low cupboards or a low oven. We hope this will help us to keep living independently at home for as long as possible.

If we start to need help at home, either with domestic chores or personal care, we are aware of more than one agency in our immediate area which can provide these services (for a cost, of course) or there is the option to employ someone directly if preferred. The Spanish Ley de Dependencia does provide for home care assistance but we would not qualify for financial assistance so would have to pay for that anyway, and I understand that assessments by the Social Services Department can take a long time to be done and there is then a further long wait for services to be provided even if the person is assessed as needing them, so probably best in our case to go directly to an agency or direct employee. I have to say that the carers employed by the Junta de Andalucia do seem to do a great job, I see many elderly people being accompanied by them on trips to the shops or out for a walk or to a café and being able to have a chat with their neighbours and friends which must help to minimise loneliness, and receiving help in their homes with the carers doing all the housework (including climbing stepladders to clean windows, my mother wasn't allowed to do that 30 years ago when working as a local authority home help in England, for health and safety reasons) or taking the elderly person's dog for a walk).

If our health should deteriorate beyond the point where we could cope at home with assistance, then a residencia would be the only option.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Co-housing is growing in popularity in Spain, where people pool their resources to purchase properties and services. Some are just for older people, others for all ages (which I think I'd prefer).

We have a third-age residencia (assisted living) right in the centre of our town on the main square, but it has never opened because the builders went bankrupt during the financial crisis and it was repossessed by the bank. The council can't afford to pay the debt so we are in stalemate. I just hope they sort it out by the time I can no longer manage on my own!


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

Unless you had been in Spain a long time and possibly had family here and were well integrated into the culture and language I cant imagine it being a particularly happy way to live your last years. My mother law ( who was south American) lived her retirement in Spain and died essentially alone. There was very limited care package for her and eventually ( like many) we ended up just paying various people to live in with her- which ended up with them using the phone, stealing, possessions ( including the will) etc. It was a terrible situation which would have been better solved by having her return to Sweden where she would have been placed in a nice comfy modern care home for free- unfortunately she refused until it was really too late to do anything!!


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## woodpecker9 (Jan 22, 2021)

kaipa said:


> Unless you had been in Spain a long time and possibly had family here and were well integrated into the culture and language I cant imagine it being a particularly happy way to live your last years. My mother law ( who was south American) lived her retirement in Spain and died essentially alone. There was very limited care package for her and eventually ( like many) we ended up just paying various people to live in with her- which ended up with them using the phone, stealing, possessions ( including the will) etc. It was a terrible situation which would have been better solved by having her return to Sweden where she would have been placed in a nice comfy modern care home for free- unfortunately she refused until it was really too late to do anything!!


Yes kaipa, it has become a common problem for some carers to abuse, steal and rob the elderly. I suppose it shows the deterioration of morals that some of the modern world has embraced.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

woodpecker9 said:


> Yes kaipa, it has become a common problem for some carers to abuse, steal and rob the elderly. I suppose it shows the deterioration of morals that some of the modern world has embraced.


I don't think it's a common problem in Spain. I've never heard of any such cases until Kaipa mentioned it. Certainly where I live the live-in carers are treated like members of the family and highly valued.

I don't suppose it's that common for families to abuse carers either, expecting them to clean the house, work more hours than they are paid for, etc. But I'm sure it must go on.

Personally I'd rather live out my days in Spain than take my chances and return to the UK.


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

Alcalaina said:


> Personally I'd rather live out my days in Spain than take my chances and return to the UK.


Me too. Anybody who thinks it might be a picnic to return to the UK and arrange good care (and pay for it) should take a look at some of the heartbreaking stories people have to tell here






Our Forum | Carers UK







www.carersuk.org





I used the forum to get advice when my 95 year old aunt (who had until then been living in her own home with only family assistance, she would never entertain the idea of carers coming in) had collapsed at home and been admitted to hospital, and my brother and I were having to look at care options for her. People who aren't able to afford the better care homes (which in many areas are costing over 1,000 pounds a week now for those self-funding) are having terrible problems because social services try to get them to accept only "care packages" where the elderly person gets 4 brief visits a day, or to have family members continue to provide care although they may be in poor health themselves and are stretched to breaking point, unable to sleep because carees with dementia are waking them several times a night for example, because Councils don't want to pay care home fees for those who can't fund their own places.

Even before my father died 14 years ago, after he'd had a stroke and I was looking into care at home for him if he'd been able to leave hospital (which sadly he never did), the local authority told me they would only provide help with personal care (washing, dressing, etc) which he would need to pay for, and if he needed help with cleaning, shopping, laundry etc. that would either have to be provided by the family or the family would have to make separate arrangements and pay for that separately. That Council's current charge just for personal care at home is 16.40 (sterling) per hour.

I can't see how I'd be any better off returning to the UK with things being as they are. I would need to pay for assistance in either place should I need it, and from what I can see the cost of a care home here is around half what it would be in the UK. A UK resident could claim Attendance Allowance, but even at the higher rate that is nowhere near enough to bridge the gap.


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## woodpecker9 (Jan 22, 2021)

Lynn R said:


> Me too. Anybody who thinks it might be a picnic to return to the UK and arrange good care (and pay for it) should take a look at some of the heartbreaking stories people have to tell here
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I think you will find that governments and councils do not pay for anything, they just distribute public funds paid by taxpayers.


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## ViaVinho (Jul 29, 2016)

I greatly appreciate your replies and the insight you provide about your own thinking on the matter and also your experiences with it. As one gets older, it becomes harder to make decisions and changes, thus one postpones them to a later date. But then they are even more difficult and one procrastinates more... Thus I'd prefer to sort it out now, or at least to formulate a plan of action. For someone living alone, this seems all the more important. As women tend to live longer than men, I'd imagine they are more likely to be confronted with this situation. I worry that 'coasting' might leave one in dire straits as an adverse event could occur suddenly and require decisions along with changes that might then be very difficult to implement. 'Coasting' from a secure base, such as a seniors residence, seems preferable. But what if the rent is increased? What if the business goes bankrupt?

Furthermore, one of the things that trouble me substantially is noise. Regardless of a seniors residence or an apartment close to needed services, I must be able to live there without being stressed! Most sources of human-made noise trouble me: footfall on the floors above, music from the TV next door, doors slamming below, cupboards closing, boom-box cars driving by. Thus the living quarters need to have at least one soundproof room where I can find refuge. Earplugs don't help as they cut out high frequency noise, but low frequency noise less so. The net effect is to sharpen the contrast between low frequency noise and silence. It is true that the noise is not loud, but, like a leaking faucet, it is very bothersome and impossible to tune out. It was very stressful having lived in the city in a high-rise apartment block, and politely asking the neighbors to be quieter was not a lasting solution. Someone new moved in, someone forgot, someone has visitors. Besides, repeatedly asking also becomes stressful. Currently I live in a rural area on a smallholding and it is marvelously quiet. Occasionally I hear the distant ring of church bells, the sheep grazing next door, the wind in the trees, the birds... But the pandemic drove home the precariousness of the situation: in an emergency what do I do? How do I explain where I am as the property is difficult to find? And so on.

Thus, I want to address the issue. And, taken together, many variables indeed come into play. Sorting them out is no easy task and your comments provide valuable food for thought.


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

ViaVinho said:


> I greatly appreciate your replies and the insight you provide about your own thinking on the matter and also your experiences with it. As one gets older, it becomes harder to make decisions and changes, thus one postpones them to a later date. But then they are even more difficult and one procrastinates more... Thus I'd prefer to sort it out now, or at least to formulate a plan of action. For someone living alone, this seems all the more important. As women tend to live longer than men, I'd imagine they are more likely to be confronted with this situation. I worry that 'coasting' might leave one in dire straits as an adverse event could occur suddenly and require decisions along with changes that might then be very difficult to implement. 'Coasting' from a secure base, such as a seniors residence, seems preferable. But what if the rent is increased? What if the business goes bankrupt?
> 
> Furthermore, one of the things that trouble me substantially is noise. Regardless of a seniors residence or an apartment close to needed services, I must be able to live there without being stressed! Most sources of human-made noise trouble me: footfall on the floors above, music from the TV next door, doors slamming below, cupboards closing, boom-box cars driving by. Thus the living quarters need to have at least one soundproof room where I can find refuge. Earplugs don't help as they cut out high frequency noise, but low frequency noise less so. The net effect is to sharpen the contrast between low frequency noise and silence. It is true that the noise is not loud, but, like a leaking faucet, it is very bothersome and impossible to tune out. It was very stressful having lived in the city in a high-rise apartment block, and politely asking the neighbors to be quieter was not a lasting solution. Someone new moved in, someone forgot, someone has visitors. Besides, repeatedly asking also becomes stressful. Currently I live in a rural area on a smallholding and it is marvelously quiet. Occasionally I hear the distant ring of church bells, the sheep grazing next door, the wind in the trees, the birds... But the pandemic drove home the precariousness of the situation: in an emergency what do I do? How do I explain where I am as the property is difficult to find? And so on.
> 
> Thus, I want to address the issue. And, taken together, many variables indeed come into play. Sorting them out is no easy task and your comments provide valuable food for thought.



Your worries highlight aspects of my previous response. You say you are sensitive to noise and clearly envisage a quiet place to reside. Spain is not a quiet place if it means being close to others. I am not entirely generalizing. For example, I used to live in Sweden where noise from neighbours etc was almost a national obsession. My dog walking over the wooden falls was enough to enrage my downstairs neighbour and basically Sundays had to be literally, a day when you whisper. Spain is the opposite- it is noisy constantly. Neighbours talk loudly competing with TVs, scooters, fireworks. The Spanish are extremely social people and sitting in groups talking late into the night is very common especially with older folk who prefer to stay up late in the warmer months. If this cultural nuance is something that is at odds with your own nature then really Spain is not to place to be


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

When we lived in an old town house (albeit in an area where cars or larger vehicles could not reach and not attached to neighbours on either side) we did experience the kind of noise Kaipa speaks of, with motos revving their engines to get up the hill and passing within inches of our window, people talking loudly outside, children playing football and shouting and screaming in the street, barking dogs etc. But the apartment we moved into is the quietest place I have ever lived in, although it's closer to the centre of the town. We're on the top floor so no noise from people walking about overhead. There are 5 apartments on our floor and none of the occupants have children or dogs, and all seem to be very quiet people (and they are not old, we are the oldest amongst them and our next door neighbours on one side are two young men who are instructors at a nearby flight training school). Our community consists of two blocks separated by a garden area, our block is the one at the rear so well distant from the street and any traffic noise (the street is not a main traffic route anyway) and the residents drive very slowly down the long ramp into the basement parking garage). Sometimes children play in the garden area but the noise doesn't bother us and if we close the windows we can't hear it anyway. The only times we really hear any noise is when we're in the kitchen with the window open and noise from the internal well of the building can be heard coming from other residents' kitchens if they're cooking or eating and their windows are open too, or worst if anyone is having any work done in their apartments. But it must have been hell for our neighbours when we bought our apartment and had it renovated, the noise would have gone on for weeks (we didn't move in until it was finished) so we must now be tolerant of our neighbours also having work that they want done.


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

TBH I think you have to accept noise especially in Spain. The stillness in the air at night means noise is very evident. Heat means windows are open so more access for noise. Construction and renovation work is practically a national hobby- so dont move to an apartment unless you are willing to put up with your neighbours removing bathroom tiles at 8.00pm!! I have grown accustomed to the noise and often kind of half wake in the middle of the night if people are shouting in the street then just go back to sleep. I would say where I am it is noisy 24 hours to varying degrees. One neighbour finishes work at around 1
00 am and another ( crazy Norwegian) gets up at 4.00 am and starts humming whilst making breakfast. Washing machines go on at 11.00pm. People star preparing lunch at 6.00am ( to take advantage of cheap electricity rates). Its constant but somehow you adjust


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## timwip (Feb 27, 2017)

Over ten years ago when we were looking for our piso, we wanted it in the center of Oviedo (no more than a ten minute walk from my wife´s mother, 5 siblings and countless cousins, nieces, nephews) and no architectural barriers. My wife has a sister that is wheel chair bound, as a result, we wanted a place where she could just wheel up by herself to our front door and join us for a glass of wine. Furthermore, this would suit us in our future old age. It took us about two years to find a suitable place that met both criteria since almost all places in the central part of town have architectural barriers. We finally found the piso where we live.

We have some noise from the neighbors, however, it is not bad. Like other posters have said, you just have to accept a certain amount of noise. The advantages of living in town are immense, we have all the necessities of life within a ten minute walk of our piso (grocery store, pharmacy, philharmonic, public health clinic, dentist, gestor, etc). We only use our car on weekends for trips to the mountains or beach. A little noise is a small trade off for all the amenities of in town living!


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## ViaVinho (Jul 29, 2016)

For me noise is such a serious problem, that I must deal with it. I get a headache within a few minutes, even if the TV/music/footfall noise is of dripping tap intensity. It literally feels like an assault and creates enormous stress and I'd prefer not to medicate. This is my reality and I cannot escape it. Thus I'm resigned to the likelihood of having to soundproof at least one room. Assuming that I get an apartment in a city near all the desired facilities, which sounds like a great idea given reasonable health, how easy is it to get household help? Let's say once or twice a week? This might need to increase as one grows more frail, at least until one gets to the stage of being bedridden, when a transition to different accommodation might be needed.


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## woodpecker9 (Jan 22, 2021)

ViaVinho said:


> For me noise is such a serious problem, that I must deal with it. I get a headache within a few minutes, even if the TV/music/footfall noise is of dripping tap intensity. It literally feels like an assault and creates enormous stress and I'd prefer not to medicate. This is my reality and I cannot escape it. Thus I'm resigned to the likelihood of having to soundproof at least one room. Assuming that I get an apartment in a city near all the desired facilities, which sounds like a great idea given reasonable health, how easy is it to get household help? Let's say once or twice a week? This might need to increase as one grows more frail, at least until one gets to the stage of being bedridden, when a transition to different accommodation might be needed.


There may be medication to relieve your condition.


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## Laurens Pilger (Sep 23, 2021)

Perhaps unrelated so excuse me if this is off-topic, but just as a tip, it might be noteworthy to mention that if you're retiring in Spain and you have not had a will drawn up in Spain, it is very much recommended to speak with a notary that is experienced with inheritance law in both Spain and your country of origin since your will in country of origin will not automatically apply when you have made the move to permanently reside in Spain.Besides the huge difference between latin style and anglo-saxon notary law, even if you're coming from countries such as The Netherlands it's very important to speak with a professional in both fields since the rules differ greatly.

Please forgive me if off-topic, but this is generally an important point of interest for foreign retirees in Spain.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

woodpecker9 said:


> There may be medication to relieve your condition.


How rude! Though I think meditation might be more effective than medication.


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## woodpecker9 (Jan 22, 2021)

Alcalaina said:


> How rude! Though I think meditation might be more effective than medication.


I was not trying to be rude, just offering help. Do you consider your sensitivity to noise normal?


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

woodpecker9 said:


> I was not trying to be rude, just offering help. Do you consider your sensitivity to noise normal?


We all have different levels of tolerance. To suggest that low tolerance is an illness requiring medication comes over as quite insulting - you might suggest it in confidence to someone you know well, but not to a stranger on a public forum.


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

To be fair the poster has effectively admitted they have a condition that appears extreme ( headaches within a few minutes of being around everyday noises). I don't think it was rude to suggest medication ( extreme levels of stress are often treated by medication) just kind of obvious to the degree that the OP would obviously be aware of this route. 
Anyway I do believe that worrying about old age and high sensitivity to noise would suggest that Spain really isnt the place to be.


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## woodpecker9 (Jan 22, 2021)

Alcalaina said:


> We all have different levels of tolerance. To suggest that low tolerance is an illness requiring medication comes over as quite insulting - you might suggest it in confidence to someone you know well, but not to a stranger on a public forum.


You have confused me with that statement. This is a forum where everyone uses a pseudonym (a fictitious name). The OP has posted in detail his/her sensitivity to noise publicly on this forum and therefore possibly seeking advice anonymously rather than confiding in close friends. If the OP objects to the personal advice suggested it is their prerogative to disagree and not yours. If you believe any comment I have made is against forum rules you should report it as opposed to creating public arguments.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

woodpecker9 said:


> You have confused me with that statement. This is a forum where everyone uses a pseudonym (a fictitious name). The OP has posted in detail his/her sensitivity to noise publicly on this forum and therefore possibly seeking advice anonymously rather than confiding in close friends. If the OP objects to the personal advice suggested it is their prerogative to disagree and not yours. If you believe any comment I have made is against forum rules you should report it as opposed to creating public arguments.


Now I’m confused, I thought the OP was asking about retirement homes, not seeking medical advice. Of course you haven’t broken any forum rules. I just thought you might like to know how your comment might be interpreted by others. Only trying to help ...


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## ViaVinho (Jul 29, 2016)

Thank you again, all, for your consideration and replies. Regarding the noise, I did mention that I do not wish to medicate. I do not view it as a medical condition any more than being very intelligent or having a keen sense of smell is viewed as a medical condition. If inescapable, I do meditate to try and cope. I am sorry if I did not make my reluctance to medicate clear enough. Also, I am considering Spain and Portugal along with other places because I'm interested in Spain and Portugal as retirement options. It might very well be that my needs are irreconcilable with conditions in Spain though Portugal does seem quieter and less hectic and finding an apartment where I can soundproof at least one room might be worth the effort.


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## tardigrade (May 23, 2021)

I have never used them but they advertise and sell "noise cancelling headphones". Those might be of help to you.


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## woodpecker9 (Jan 22, 2021)

ViaVinho said:


> Thank you again, all, for your consideration and replies. Regarding the noise, I did mention that I do not wish to medicate. I do not view it as a medical condition any more than being very intelligent or having a keen sense of smell is viewed as a medical condition. If inescapable, I do meditate to try and cope. I am sorry if I did not make my reluctance to medicate clear enough. Also, I am considering Spain and Portugal along with other places because I'm interested in Spain and Portugal as retirement options. It might very well be that my needs are irreconcilable with conditions in Spain though Portugal does seem quieter and less hectic and finding an apartment where I can soundproof at least one room might be worth the effort.


We all wish you well and good luck.


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## CltFlyboy (Feb 11, 2020)

I truly feel for the OP. My dad has a similar condition and is very sensitive to noise - especially when the level/type of sound changes. From what I understand it's not something that you can throw medicine at, it's a truly neurological condition, and there isn't much you can do other than control your surroundings as best possible. He does use headphones occasionally, but he also keeps some low level background sounds on that I think help distract the brain... Good luck with your journey ViaVinho, I wish you well and silence.


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## ViaVinho (Jul 29, 2016)

I much appreciate your feedback and good wishes. Thank you all.


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