# we're thinking of opening a B&B



## mike p (Apr 29, 2014)

we're complete newbies to the business. We know we're being over optimistic and probably slightly mad..we know we're at the very beginning of a learning curve.. any info or advice we can get will be very gratefully received. 

we're envisaging a cortijo/country house in Las Alpujarras, ideally with a bit of land and a pool. We have maybe 300k euros to spend. Our research so far has led us to believe that the market for a straight 'B&B' may be rather saturated, and to make a living, we'd need to branch out into speciality holidays (yoga, walking, biking, bird watching, writers workshops etc etc).

Sorry, it's a bit of a list, but ...

Q1. How many rooms do you think we'd need to have to make that a feasible proposition?

Q2. How feasible would it be (planning permission-wise) to put up yurts to expand capacity to accommodate these kind of groups if necessary?

Q3. We think the natural park areas are the nicest (eg the Taha valley), especially for walkers. We're getting the impression it's also more expensive to buy property in such areas. Would you agree with that?

I'm sure there's a lot of other things we need to ask about, and don't even know what they are yet..

But, if anyone can throw light on any aspect of the above, it's a start, and we'll be immensely grateful. 

cheers

M and S


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

mike p said:


> we're complete newbies to the business. We know we're being over optimistic and probably slightly mad..we know we're at the very beginning of a learning curve.. any info or advice we can get will be very gratefully received.
> 
> we're envisaging a cortijo/country house in Las Alpujarras, ideally with a bit of land and a pool. We have maybe 300k euros to spend. Our research so far has led us to believe that the market for a straight 'B&B' may be rather saturated, and to make a living, we'd need to branch out into speciality holidays (yoga, walking, biking, bird watching, writers workshops etc etc).
> 
> ...


You know, if I were you, I'd try to do something similar in the UK first - see how you get on without making the huge leap to a foreign country. Failing that, maybe go to Spain and do a tour of B&Bs and get a feel for what it might entail

Jo xxx


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

Firstly, I'd like to say that I hope it works out for you.

However, the reality is that it is VERY hard to get a B&B licence (or Casa Rural licence).

I have friends who, after 7 years of trying and having spend hundreds of thousands on their dream, have given up and are trying to sell. They wanted a simple Casa Rural. After doing everything that was asked of them, the final requirement was to have a certain amount of land - which they don't have. Why couldn't that have been stated up-front? There is no law stating this, just the local town hall who have stipulated it. And that's the point, at the end of the day, it's simply up to them!


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## Leper (May 12, 2010)

I have just read the original post over and over and am on the verge of a nervous breakdown. Spain needs another B&B like London needs the return of the Bubonic Plague. With 2 bedroom apartments rental available @ €500 per month for a centrally located apartment, B&B services would essentially not be needed.

Along with hairdressers, beauticians, electricians, mechanics, unofficial airport taxis just add in B&B jockeys. Being successful with B&B on the Costas in the current financial clmiate is akin to winning the Lotto. Keep your money in your pocket and do not take offence.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

How to get through a lot of money in Spain:
Book a few months in a luxury hotel in Marbella. Spend your days sipping cocktails by the pool and your nights dining in top restaurants. Hire a Bentley Continental for those forays to the golf course and a yacht for cruising the coast.
Your money will be spent but you will have had fun spending it.
Or open a B & B. Your money will also be spent within a short time but you will not have enjoyed the experience.
Or give it to the animal rescue charity I work for. Your money will also have been spent but you will feel a warm fuzzy glow of satisfaction at having done a Good Thing.


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## zippy-watkins (Mar 10, 2014)

Good morning. Will pm you


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## Horlics (Sep 27, 2011)

I’m certainly not as dismissive as others of B&B as a concept. It’s true that a traveller can rent a two bedroom apartment but plenty opt for full service hotels, whilst I would prefer to go to a B&B after years of staying in soulless large hotels on business, as would many others.

What rings alarm bells is that you have no previous experience and although everybody has to start out for a first time, doing so in a country other than your own must surely add risk to what is already a risky venture. I think the first reply to your opening post illustrated this point perfectly, i.e. the difficulties of licensing. I had no idea it was so difficult.

Also, there is a shift in the whole rental and holiday sector brought about by the Internet. Web sites like AIRBNB and other home swap sites make it possible for individuals to rent out rooms and offer B&B very inexpensively. They don’t register and therefore don’t have the expense of following regulations that official casas rurales must. They probably should, but the fact is at this point in time they don’t.

If you do go ahead, keep 100k of that 300 in your pocket. You have to have resilience (mentally and financially) to persevere during the build-up of business and later the slow times.


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## caromac (Nov 16, 2008)

We did exactly this in 2007 just at the start of the recession. Loved it! Had visitors from as far afield as Australia. Our idea was a little different as we went towards rural village tourism, focusing on walking, cycling, photography etc. We live near an airfiled and have housed a few trainee pilots too. Just because we don't do it anymore was not because it didn't work but for other personal reasons. Furthermore after giving up 3 years ago we still get enquiries from the original website. This is without an recent marketing. It CAN be done but do your research!
Good luck


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

A lot of residents, like us, rent an apartment or similar partly, because it gives us the freedom to do what we want when we want, partly because it gives dietary control (low-fat, low-salt, lactose-free, etc.) without inconveniencing the hosts and partly because we take two smallish well-behaved dogs with us.


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## webmarcos (Dec 25, 2012)

I know someone (from Korean extract) who started renting a hostal in Madrid. They're doing very well - they cater for Korean tourists doing the major cities of western Europe bit, and provide a good Korean breakfast. Helps too that renting is so economical in Spain. Find a niche where you have an unfair advantage, and exploit it mercilessly.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

An English couple opened a B&B in our village about the same time as we moved here,. It has taken five or six years to establish itself, but is now doing quite well. Forming links with rural activity groups and clubs is definitely a good idea. They are now have a deal with a cycling group and drive their luggage to the next stopping point after they've stayed the night.

Getting on the right side of your town hall is absolutely crucial. They have so much power and can impose silly rules retrospectively. Take the mayor out for lunch as soon as possible and make her/him your best friend!

Another tip is not to spend too much on fixtures and fittings. It's not your home! Stick rigidly to your budget, keep it cheap and cheerful and don't be tempted by beautiful bedspreads.


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## Leper (May 12, 2010)

Let's keep the ball on the ground here. The OP is thinking of investing 300K + costs of services after opening. If you make €100 profit every week (which is doubtful to say the least), it will take many years to break even. OK let's say you make a profit of €200 every week (more doubtful) it is likely that you will not break even during your lifetime. On top of this you have the stress of Spanish B&B regulations, buying the mayor(ess) dinner every week, negotiating Spanish taxes, obtaining fresh food, collecting patrons, advertising, utility bills, doing airport/railway station/bus centre runs etc etc and that is before you try to make all your customers happy.

If you are going ahead I recommend you invest much much less and perhaps you will see a return on your money. I wish you only the best of luck. Leave much room for a dignified retreat, just in case . . .


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## angil (Sep 24, 2012)

webmarcos said:


> I know someone (from Korean extract) who started renting a hostal in Madrid. They're doing very well - they cater for Korean tourists doing the major cities of western Europe bit, and provide a good Korean breakfast. Helps too that renting is so economical in Spain. Find a niche where you have an unfair advantage, and exploit it mercilessly.


Do you have the address?? Thanks.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Horlics said:


> What rings alarm bells is that you have no previous experience and although everybody has to start out for a first time, doing so in a country other than your own must surely add risk to what is already a risky venture. I think the first reply to your opening post illustrated this point perfectly, i.e. the difficulties of licensing. I had no idea it was so difficult.



This to me is the most poignant point of all!!! Strange language, strange rules and regulations, strange business laws, in a strange country.

Jo xxx


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## Ann in La Palma (Jun 14, 2013)

I fully agree that if you have 300k€ you should only spend a complete maximum of 200k€ on the initial purchase. You'd be amazed where that other 100k€ goes to - 9k€ for your electricity re-fit, 6k€ for the architect to come and measure up and draw plans for your licence.
And then the licence - you have to pay the town hall, the cabildo and anybody else that jumps on the bandwagon. 
Don't forget also that you have your self-employed social security to pay and that's around 280€ a month.
But one thing about your investment is that it's not all money down the drain as you will still have the building.
Making beds on a daily basis isn't the fun it's cracked up to be though! On the other hand you will be your own boss, but expect to be working much longer hours for much less money. 
~The other aspect about a B & B is that people expect it to be cheap and often only rent for the night - that's a lot of work!l
As I see it though, the real problem is getting the licence as in fact there is no such category as bed and breakfast. Spain is trying to 'up' it's level of accommodation, so with apartments, you'd be fine. The old style pensions which are room only are also being phased out and no new licences are being issued. 
This is not to say don't do it, but just excercise complete caution about things which will be well and truly outside of your control.


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## Horlics (Sep 27, 2011)

It's not quite that bad!

When you put capital into a business in the form of assets, like the property, for example, then you do actually get to take something back when you exit.

If somebody makes 100 Euro profit a week on 300K they're doubling what they can get from putting it in the bank. Granted, there's work involved, but the incentive is building goodwill into a business that then has value on top of any assets.

You seem to think that breaking even involves earning back the entire 300k at the rate of whatever a week they manage to get. If accounting in business worked like that there wouldn't be any businesses.



Leper said:


> Let's keep the ball on the ground here. The OP is thinking of investing 300K + costs of services after opening. If you make €100 profit every week (which is doubtful to say the least), it will take many years to break even. OK let's say you make a profit of €200 every week (more doubtful) it is likely that you will not break even during your lifetime. On top of this you have the stress of Spanish B&B regulations, buying the mayor(ess) dinner every week, negotiating Spanish taxes, obtaining fresh food, collecting patrons, advertising, utility bills, doing airport/railway station/bus centre runs etc etc and that is before you try to make all your customers happy.
> 
> If you are going ahead I recommend you invest much much less and perhaps you will see a return on your money. I wish you only the best of luck. Leave much room for a dignified retreat, just in case . . .


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Being your own boss is an attractive proposition only if it gives you more freedom than being someone else's wage- slave. Running a B&B is not the kind of business that gives that freedom.

As for profitabilty: there is no guarantee that the rate of occupancy you may achieve will return 10€ let alone 100€ a week. It is not always the case either that when a business is wound up, for whatever reason, you will 'get something out of it'. That depends entirely on the going rate for the assets at the point of sale and of course any debt you may have incurred.

Without any business experience, let alone that of the hospitality industry, without local knowledge and I'm guessing little if any Spanish the truth is that the odds are heavily stacked against you.
Having lunch with the Alcalde is not the equivalent of waving a magic wand, as some seem to imply. Believe me, I know......

The OP may be better advised opening a B&B in an attractive part of the UK aimed at the European market and using any profit to holiday in Spain.


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## Goldeneye (Nov 12, 2011)

I would suggest searching for B & B's online in various corners of Spain contact them directly and ask them about the pro's and con's. 

I have stayed in a few B & B's in Spain, for me it was as a way of gaining valuable insight into daily life, as well as practical knowledge from ex-pats who had made the move, something I wouldn't have experienced staying in a Hotel. 
What I did discover is that very surprisingly most spoke little or no Spanish, yet managed to 'get by', most had 'retired' to Spain, non had previous experience of running a B & B. however, the big difference for them compared to you is that they weren't solely relying on the income to support themselves. It was 'bonus money' and they had the freedom to say 'sorry were full' when they wanted a break from guests, making chit-chat and making beds..
Although none had previous experience of running a B & B they all without exception had stayed in many B & B's over the years they were able to draw on their experiences to make it a very pleasant experience for their guests.

Get the info you require from the Horses mouth...

..
.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

We have stayed at one near the Cazorla Natural Park, but they don't do B&B but have the large house split up into small apartments 1 or 2 or 3 bedroom configurations depending on what is locked off or not. For them, also it is supplementary income and they, too, block off certain dates if they want a break such as at Christmas/New year or when family might want to stay. We even spent Christmas there a couple of years ago.


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## Horlics (Sep 27, 2011)

mrypg9 said:


> As for profitabilty: there is no guarantee that the rate of occupancy you may achieve will return 10€ let alone 100€ a week. It is not always the case either that when a business is wound up, for whatever reason, you will 'get something out of it'. That depends entirely on the going rate for the assets at the point of sale and of course any debt you may have incurred./QUOTE]
> 
> Of course there are no guarantees of income.
> 
> ...


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Horlics said:


> mrypg9 said:
> 
> 
> > As for profitabilty: there is no guarantee that the rate of occupancy you may achieve will return 10€ let alone 100€ a week. It is not always the case either that when a business is wound up, for whatever reason, you will 'get something out of it'. That depends entirely on the going rate for the assets at the point of sale and of course any debt you may have incurred./QUOTE]
> ...


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## zippy-watkins (Mar 10, 2014)

Can't help but notice that the OP has not shown his/her face since posting this.... maybe some of you guys need to lighten up a little bit!


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## Horlics (Sep 27, 2011)

You didn't say it would be worth nothing but you chose to single out a quote about taking something out of the business. Of course operating losses might eat into that and there may or may not be a positive balance overall.

I was merely pointing out that an analysis based on getting back in weekly profits the entire investment at the outset, the bulk of which would be a high value asset like property, is a flawed analysis. I know you know it is, based on everything else you've said it is clear that you do. So why we're having this tiresome debate I don't know.



mrypg9 said:


> Horlics said:
> 
> 
> > I don't think I said that your property would be worth nothing, did I? I pointed out that it may be worth less than your intial investment plus any liabilities you may have accrued.
> ...


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

zippy-watkins said:


> Can't help but notice that the OP has not shown his/her face since posting this.... maybe some of you guys need to lighten up a little bit!


Oh yes..We can always make light of spending €300k of other people's money:


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## zippy-watkins (Mar 10, 2014)

mrypg9 said:


> Oh yes..We can always make light of spending €300k of other people's money:



Why cant you try and be a bit more constructive?!!!:blah::blah:


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

zippy-watkins said:


> Why cant you try and be a bit more constructive?!!!:blah::blah:


It's difficult to be positive or optimistic. The odds aren't good under the circumstances. The OP has probably read enough and has 'food for thought' which is the whole point of asking the question. There's not much else they can say - or us

Jo xxx


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

For all of those wanting a positive thread, try this one.
http://www.expatforum.com/expats/sp...living-spain/416545-our-move-progressing.html
Different circumstances, different comments.
Contrary to popular belief, most people on this forum do post "constuctive" comments when possible and appropriate.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Pesky Wesky said:


> For all of those wanting a positive thread, try this one.
> http://www.expatforum.com/expats/sp...living-spain/416545-our-move-progressing.html
> Different circumstances, different comments.
> Contrary to popular belief, most people on this forum do post "constuctive" comments when possible and appropriate.


and it would be irresponsible of us if we were to say "Everything in the garden is lovely, come on over..." when we know it isn't. We do try to be positive where we can, but we won't lie just to make a person who is possibly facing financial if she/he goes ahead without being very, very careful, feel better.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Horlics said:


> It's not quite that bad!
> 
> When you put capital into a business in the form of assets, like the property, for example, then you do actually get to take something back when you exit.
> 
> ...


You're also buying your own home, of course, unless you plan to live off the premises.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

baldilocks said:


> We have stayed at one near the Cazorla Natural Park, but they don't do B&B but have the large house split up into small apartments 1 or 2 or 3 bedroom configurations depending on what is locked off or not. For them, also it is supplementary income and they, too, block off certain dates if they want a break such as at Christmas/New year or when family might want to stay. We even spent Christmas there a couple of years ago.


That's a good compromise. Some friends of mine rent out their beautiful old village house for a few weeks of the year and live in a self-contained apartment within the property during those weeks. Although it's a bit cramped, the income pays their bills and basically allows them to carry on living here.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

zippy-watkins said:


> Can't help but notice that the OP has not shown his/her face since posting this.... maybe some of you guys need to lighten up a little bit!


The OP has read the thread, but hasn't posted, which I agree is a shame.
I agree that some of the posts are harsh and of course they cannot be thought encouraging, but they also contain spot on advice.
People wanting to emigrate successfully need to ask questions, which this person has done, and then digest the information given and decide on the next move. However you can't ask questions only expecting and wanting an encouraging response, because just what is the point of that?


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Alcalaina said:


> That's a good compromise. Some friends of mine rent out their beautiful old village house for a few weeks of the year and live in a self-contained apartment within the property during those weeks. Although it's a bit cramped, the income pays their bills and basically allows them to carry on living here.


There seem to be a few people who think that it's possible to rent out part of a property as a way of topping up pensions or incomes, but that it's much more difficult to make it a main salary maker. How that works out legally with licences etc I don't know...


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## webmarcos (Dec 25, 2012)

angil said:


> Do you have the address?? Thanks.


When they're next in the shop (which may be some time) I'll try and get hold of their location - If memory serves me right it's a hostal close to calle Carmen in Madrid. Monthly rent was about 1500 euros iirc.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Pesky Wesky said:


> There seem to be a few people who think that it's possible to rent out part of a property as a way of topping up pensions or incomes, but that it's much more difficult to make it a main salary maker. How that works out legally with licences etc I don't know...


I've a couple of friends, elderly ladies, who've just closed a local business they've run for thirty years or more and who now supplement their retirement income by taking in what they term 'PGs'..paying guests. They have a lovely rural house perched high in the hills with fabulous views and seem to get a fair few guests.

They are extremely law-abiding and I'm presuming therefore that they have all required licences. I do know that they find it extremely restrictive and time-consuming running this kind of business as well of course of sharing their home with strangers.

They already have an income so this is an add-on and I'd doubt it would bring in enough to live on without a further source of revenue. I'd have to be extremely hard-up to put myself through all that hassle but needs must, I suppose...


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## webmarcos (Dec 25, 2012)

On the plus side - there are 60 million tourists visiting Spain every year.

On the minus side - the competition is immense and intense. The OP would be up against international hotel chains, locally-run establishments with years of experience, and the new airbnb/web mob.


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## Horlics (Sep 27, 2011)

I do like the term "paying guests", what a nice way of attracting people to stay with you. It makes it more friendly than "clients" or similar terms.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Pesky Wesky said:


> The OP has read the thread, but hasn't posted, which I agree is a shame.
> I agree that some of the posts are harsh and of course they cannot be thought encouraging, but they also contain spot on advice.
> People wanting to emigrate successfully need to ask questions, which this person has done, and then digest the information given and decide on the next move. However you can't ask questions only expecting and wanting an encouraging response, because just what is the point of that?



My view is that generally speaking people do what they want to do regardless of off-putting advice. Some would say 'You only live once, go for it', which is a point of view, albeit one I don't share.

Giving people advice where a lot of money is involved is problematic. I think that the only thing that can be responsibly done is to point out the possible risks. What this Forum can do and does very well is to tell people the rules, regulations and so on, give some limited advice on taxation matters and similar things. These are factual matters.
Other things such as choosing where to live, whether to open a business, whether to rent or buy and so on are beyond the scope of a Forum like this as so many personal things are involved, things of which we can know nothing.
Some people could make a fortune setting up an ice-cream stall in the desert offering refreshment to occasional passing travellers and camels.
Others couldn't profitably run the legendary Port Said bordello.
If someone has set their mind on doing something they'll do it regardless. Many will fail but a lucky few will succeed. If everyone were as risk-averse as I we'd be riding around on donkeys and living in shacks. 'Progress' depends on the adventurous.


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## Horlics (Sep 27, 2011)

I really do think that Airbnb and the like is a significant challenge. If I was running a pension (guest house or similar) and saw a dozen nearby private room lets appear on Airbnb I would be most miffed. Not because I couldn't cope with competition, but because they'd be dodging a few rules and regs, no doubt.





webmarcos said:


> On the plus side - there are 60 million tourists visiting Spain every year.
> 
> On the minus side - the competition is immense and intense. The OP would be up against international hotel chains, locally-run establishments with years of experience, and the new airbnb/web mob.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Horlics said:


> I do like the term "paying guests", what a nice way of attracting people to stay with you. It makes it more friendly than "clients" or similar terms.


They are very 'genteel' ladies..


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## mike p (Apr 29, 2014)

zippy-watkins said:


> Can't help but notice that the OP has not shown his/her face since posting this.... maybe some of you guys need to lighten up a little bit!


Don't lighten up on my account... don't mind being called the world's most naive idiot, as long as I learn something!

I'm really pleased with the level of response actually. It often surprises me how generous people can be with their time and energy to total strangers.

Right now I'm meticulously going through each post and decanting all the useful info into a Word doc.. so keep it comin.. : )


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

mike p said:


> Don't lighten up on my account... don't mind being called the world's most naive idiot, as long as I learn something!
> 
> I'm really pleased with the level of response actually. It often surprises me how generous people can be with their time and energy to total strangers.
> 
> Right now I'm meticulously going through each post and decanting all the useful info into a Word doc.. so keep it comin.. : )


Wonderful attitude, and that's just what might make you succeed, where others, who focus on the What's good about Spain aspect, and not the What's Spain (really) like angle, have a much greater probability of failure


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

mrypg9 said:


> Others couldn't profitably run the legendary Port Said bordello.


And *you *would know all about that???????????  Hmmmmm. You have so many hidden facets! What next?


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

I just remembered that I had some references to "turismo Rural" which includes bed and breakfast for a project that I was working on a while ago. These articles are in Spanish, but you could run them through Google translate or similar to see if you can make sense out of them. Other than that it wouldn't be very expensive to get them translated. One of the most seen observations is to learn some Spanish asap...

AZRural. Montar mi casa de turismo rural

¿Sobran casas rurales en España? >> Paco Nadal >> El Viajero >> Blogs EL PAÍS


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## Ann in La Palma (Jun 14, 2013)

Horlics said:


> I really do think that Airbnb and the like is a significant challenge. If I was running a pension (guest house or similar) and saw a dozen nearby private room lets appear on Airbnb I would be most miffed. Not because I couldn't cope with competition, but because they'd be dodging a few rules and regs, no doubt.


Airbnb.com is a great medium for advertising your property as it takes a small commission for the booking rather than you having to pay out a lump sum to be advertised with possibly no results. However there are plenty of people on there who advertise who don't have a licence - in fact, probably the greater percentage don't have a licence. The bottom line is that you can report, but it seems that nobody tends to want to.
We run a B n B in the Canary Islands which is a restored finca with a couple of stables and we've been doing it for the past 12 years. As I said in my previous post, or at least hinted at, the biggest problem is the licence. We have had our application for a licence in for literally years but it is still not possible because of the changing regulations. When we first went to the tourist board, they told us that here is no such thing as B n B and where was the kitchen for the guests. Ok, so we provided a communal kitchen. Still no go. Nobody has a licence in our area because the regualtions have not been agreed by the Town Hall. 
But everybody knows we are trading and the Town Hall and tourist office send us business. But it's the Cabildo that could fine us at any moment.
In Tenerife, there have been fines of 18k€ to those renting out apartments that don't have a licence. Going through the courts, they had their fines reduced to 15k€. Now apparently, the fines have been proved to be illiegal and not in fitting with the 'crime.' But they'll have to go to court again to try and get that money back. 
All I'm saying is that these regulations are a minefield because it's down to the local Town Hall by and large. 
I don't think a B n B is hard to run (although sleeping with strangers can be tiresome and tiring and you get the same questions day after day - do you make enough money, do you miss the UK, do you have children and what do you do all day!), it's the politics, tax and social security that is the Very hard thing.
Personally, I don't think that trying it out in the UK is of any help whatsoever. It's not rocket science - you can learn it as you go, improving all the time as you discover what guests want and need. Marketing is something you need to work on all the time, but again you can learn as you go.
But on a more positive note, if you do get some hours of the day to yourself, then you can always run a side business on the internet. 
I know that the Canaries is different to mainland Spain but if you want to ask me any questions in particular about running a BnB, you're welcome!


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## Horlics (Sep 27, 2011)

Hi again Mike,

Good to see you are still here.

Here, you will get advice about the location, i.e. Spain.

For advice about the B&B trade, holidays rentals, etc. get yourself over to Lay My Hat :: Index

You asked right at the beginning a question about how many rooms. There are a couple of key points you need to look at.

1. How much does a room cost you to have ready for occupation. You need a spreadsheet with costs of everything you need to have in a room, for example, sheets, beds, etc, and also teas and coffees if you will have that facility in-room. Don't forget a share of all the taxes, rates, etc. broken down by the number of rooms. You can then work out what you would need to charge in order to make a profit. You then have the basis for some market research into how many rooms at that price you might be able to shift.

2. How much does it cost you to put a plate of food in front of somebody, if you're going to offer dining. Include all kitchenware, tableware, kitchen equipment, etc. You'll then be able to work out how much you'll need to charge and see whether that's competitive in the location you are thinking of, and agreeable to your target market (rich old folks vs. young back packers, for example, value different things).

If you don't speak Spanish factor-in a Spanish speaking assistant from day 1.

Anyway, enough of that here, i'll leave the rest of that to those at the site I suggested you look at.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

baldilocks said:


> And *you *would know all about that???????????  Hmmmmm. You have so many hidden facets! What next?


You'll have to wait for my (posthumous) memoirs, Baldy.

But I'll leave instructions that you be sent an advance copy


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## Horlics (Sep 27, 2011)

They sound like very difficult circumstance Ann. It can't be nice to know you might get hit with a fine at any time, and yet if the local tourist office is sending business then it must feel totally legitimate. Good luck with it in the future.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Horlics said:


> They sound like very difficult circumstance Ann. It can't be nice to know you might get hit with a fine at any time, and yet if the local tourist office is sending business then it must feel totally legitimate. Good luck with it in the future.


Our animal shelter has been operating for years, decades even, without all the necessary licences. The Ayto know that, the police know that, the JdA know that....yet the Police bring dogs to us and the Ayto and the JdA are working with us to make us legal.

Obviously entertaining paying guests and accommodating stray dogs aren't quite the same thing but the underlying principle is common to both and many other situations in 'real' Spain.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

mrypg9 said:


> Our animal shelter has been operating for years, decades even, without all the necessary licences. The Ayto know that, the police know that, the JdA know that....yet the Police bring dogs to us and the Ayto and the JdA are working with us to make us legal.
> 
> Obviously entertaining paying guests and accommodating stray dogs aren't quite the same thing but the underlying principle is common to both and many other situations in 'real' Spain.


That sums up one of the main things about Spain and some other Mediterranean countries that drives us stereotypically rules-based, tidy-minded Northerners crazy.

Different levels of legislation can appear to run concurrently, even if they contradict each other, and because legislation is often only vaguely defined, individual decision-makers can interpret it how they will.

So state law will say one thing, regional law will say something slightly different, and at Town Hall level the mayor or the funcionarios will tweak it till it fits the situation on the ground.

It's no wonder people just get on with things in their own way, and if Fate has decreed that they will be caught and fined, so be it. There's often a way out of that too, if you scratch the right backs.

Eso es como es - that's the way it is.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Alcalaina said:


> That sums up one of the main things about Spain and some other Mediterranean countries that drives us stereotypically rules-based, tidy-minded Northerners crazy.
> 
> Different levels of legislation can appear to run concurrently, even if they contradict each other, and because legislation is often only vaguely defined, individual decision-makers can interpret it how they will.
> 
> ...


Funny you should write that...I've just written a lengthy screed explaining why I'm hesitating about going ahead with an event I've planned to make money for ADANA. The event is hopefully to take place in a public square and will involve live music and a Ploughman's and Cava meal to be served ready-put-together on plates.
I've put on events like this before and made over 1000 euros but now we've been told there is a whole raft of new regulations relating to such events, including the requirement of those handling the food to do so in approved places and with a Food Hygiene Certificate or similar.
I'm in two minds whether to go ahead and just ignore it..or not. No point in a lot of preparation if our earnings go towards paying a fine...


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## Ann in La Palma (Jun 14, 2013)

This is just the sort of thing we are all up against - new regulations that are often impractical. Our village shop and our bar both closed a couple of years ago because of regulations - they just don't make enough money to comply. One of the results is that now there is no place for the old boys to go and play dominoes, chat and check up on each other. (The new regulations by the way included an electronic till with receipts instead of money in a draw, ladies and gents toilets, proper scales in the shop instead of just normal kitchen ones, etc.)
But I'm wondering in your case Mike if you could find a place with a licence already? 
The trouble with not having a licence is that we can't be so obvious as to put a board outside - our neighbours warned us that this would be a bad move in terms of legal/illegal. Unfortunately, it hasn't stopped the Dutch people down the road doing it.


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## mike p (Apr 29, 2014)

Not sure Ann. But we envisage our B&B being well outside a village, so less obvious. And certainly not operating as a bar in the conventional sense, so less of a threat to traditional village life. And hopefully we'd be bringing Euros into the area, rather than grabbing a share of what's already there. But as I've said earlier, it's all theory... all in our heads at the mo. We're listening with great interest to folks who are actually walking the walk!


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