# Is it really that bad in nz?



## poljen2001

HI all,

My family is thinking of immigrating to NZ in the near future and have already submitted an Expression of Interest. Ironically, after submitting my EOI, I have read a lot of good and bad things about living in NZ and it seems that I read more bad than good things about NZ, esp as regards cost of living, housing, crime rate and wages/salaries. Now I'm having second thoughts about pushing through with my EOI. Is it really that bad to live in NZ? I need to be enlightened. Thanks, guys.


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## alansheffield

I love it - yes there are good and bad but overall its a great place to b...fab countryside, great beaches, really nice people and a chilled life style..love it


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## Marianne2010

Hi,
I would say many things about your project, the first and main being: go there and have a look! Really make a plan to find a job, see if you would fit in, decide where you would try to fit.
I had my move planned for more than one year and waited for a trip there last December to say the final go or no go. Well for me, with my circumstances, NZ would no be an improvement in any way I looked regarding economy, ecology, quality of life etc. I wouldn't have been able to see it that clearly if I hadn't gone there to check myself and not rely on any other perception: it's MY life! So I stopped dead the project. But certainly for a lot of people who don't have my actual situation it would be an improvement in at least one way, and it is up to any of them to see if this would be enough... Clearly for me, the public image of NZ (the one largely know through large audience movies like Lord Of The Rings, by a major amount of research on governmental websites...) is not the real one. So you must go there at least once before throwing your present life away. And this of course goes for any major move to another country.
Marianne
My thoughts to the people I met in Christchurch when I was there, I hope all of you are doing well today despite the event. I'll pray for all of you guys.


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## topcat83

Good advice from Marianne - come over and look first. We love the place and wouldn't dream of moving back to the UK. But it depends what you're after. You don't come to NZ to make your fortune, but for the lifestyle.


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## FrancisJames

If its fortune and lifestyle you're looking for give Australia a go?


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## topcat83

FrancisJames said:


> If its fortune and lifestyle you're looking for give Australia a go?


Depends on what kind of lifestyle. Ask an Aborigine what they think about the way they're treated.


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## FrancisJames

And ask a Maori which country they receive better treatment in. 

Do you have an concept of how bad the domestic abuse stats are in NZ, Most of it related to alcohol misuse. Know which country I'd rather raise a family in.


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## topcat83

FrancisJames said:


> And ask a Maori which country they receive better treatment in.
> 
> Do you have an concept of how bad the domestic abuse stats are in NZ, Most of it related to alcohol misuse. Know which country I'd rather raise a family in.


I'm not going to answer this thread further, as I am aware that (like many other New Zealanders both old and new) I am slightly sensitive to the crass attitude and insensitivity of some people who are very obviously totally negative about our beautiful country at the moment. New Zealand is hurting. I personally find the comparison of two totally different subjects (racism and domestic violence) difficult to comprehend.


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## mt3

poljen2001 said:


> HI all,
> 
> My family is thinking of immigrating to NZ in the near future and have already submitted an Expression of Interest. Ironically, after submitting my EOI, I have read a lot of good and bad things about living in NZ and it seems that I read more bad than good things about NZ, esp as regards cost of living, housing, crime rate and wages/salaries. Now I'm having second thoughts about pushing through with my EOI. Is it really that bad to live in NZ? I need to be enlightened. Thanks, guys.


Hi we have been here for 7 years now, and have had enough, do not be fooled by the clean green image, its a Myth as for a life style if you cant afford it forget it.
NZ is far to expensive, There is real poverty here. Do not buy a house you are paying through the nose for what is basicaly an expensive shed. Be warned if you still feel the need to purchase property the Kiwi's love to make alterations internal and external without the required consents resulting in an unsuspecting buyer on trying to sell said property with huge fee's trying to get flat plans altered so it can be sold major stress!! make sure you obtain a lim report, a building report,
and make sure all alterations have the required consents and employ Legal advice that can be trusted. goes for the real estate side to but they have cleaned up there act a bit.
Sure its pretty here, But there is no real transport infastructure, you have to drive basically everywhere or fly more expense.there are also major social problems 
Drink drugs and the amount of teens that you read about every weekend being killed in car smashes it makes me sad but nothing seems to be done about it.
you can start driving at fifteen Duh!! Drink driving is a major killer.this place is deffo 20 years behind the rest of the world
oh and the clothing is ****, leather shoes cost a fortune, Number one shoe warehouse yeah!! plastic crap.............................


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## Gimme5

Sounds to me like you're already enlightened but secretly hoping that someone here might change your mind. I'm afraid asking this question again will likely just get you more of the same answers. As you well know, trolling through these pages over the past year will get you the opinions you want, both good and bad. Then as a comparison look at the Australia Forum for example and see whether you get the same comments and reaction from posters there. I'm sure you can then draw your own final conclusion. All the best.


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## anski

Well one man's meat is another man's poison or so they say.

I lived in Australia (Sydney & Queensland) for 32 years & New Zealand (Auckland) for 8 years.
The remaining 25 years in lots of other countries. 
I think in my personal opinion that both NZ & AU are wonderful countries but obviously not all migrants share the view. When I return to the country of my birth I am pleased my parents made the decision to migrate when I was 9!

As for domestic abuse sad to say this happens in many countries often fueled by excess of alcohol, drugs or stress & financial problems.

I remember women being beat up in Scotland because they simply waited outside the pubs or betting shops in Glasgow trying to save some of their housekeeping money from their husband's pay packets only received a few hours before, and I am talking about the 1960's!

I also remember being shocked at the blocks of tenements where several families all shared 1 outside toilet & none of the flats had indoor toilets or baths but they had to wash themselves in the kitchen sink or a tin bath. That's poverty in my mind! Also was in the 1960's & many of you are too young to have witnessed this.

I am appalled at the number of young women today in the UK that swear & get drunk & display very unfeminine behaviour in public & seen on television shows.

I think if you are sensible you realise there is good & bad in every country.

However I was shocked at some of the areas in the UK today where there is racial tension & obvious signs of poverty & neglect. Football hooligans in UK today seem very different to the football games my father took me to as a child in the 50's. My father would roll in his grave today if he saw his beloved England & the way it has become in parts today so don't get me started on that.

Driving does leave a lot to be desired sometimes & youth are reckless in many countries. It is a known fact that males under the age of 25 are the most accident prone. My son wrote his first car off in Australia at the age of 17 not realising how to control his hormones & speed. But after that I sent him to an Advanced Drivers Course so it is up to parents also to guide these youngsters. I do agree driver education should be taught in schools though.

As for comparing Australia with New Zealand it is like comparing apples with pears. Both are wonderful countries and I don't think anywhere in the world today is cheap any more not if you want quality of life or living.

Don't be put off by disgruntled migrants some people find it hard to adjust for different reasons & many return back to the UK only to find in the end they really do prefer the life in NZ/AU. 
It takes a certain amount of spirit, discipline & effort to successfully migrate & no it usually does not fall into your lap at first. But comparing what you given up (which if you think about did not happen overnight either but over a period of years) is foolish.
People in all countries moan about the high cost of living these days it's a fact.


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## kiwigser

mt3 said:


> Hi we have been here for 7 years now, and have had enough, do not be fooled by the clean green image, its a Myth as for a life style if you cant afford it forget it.
> NZ is far to expensive, There is real poverty here. Do not buy a house you are paying through the nose for what is basicaly an expensive shed. Be warned if you still feel the need to purchase property the Kiwi's love to make alterations internal and external without the required consents resulting in an unsuspecting buyer on trying to sell said property with huge fee's trying to get flat plans altered so it can be sold major stress!! make sure you obtain a lim report, a building report,
> and make sure all alterations have the required consents and employ Legal advice that can be trusted. goes for the real estate side to but they have cleaned up there act a bit.
> Sure its pretty here, But there is no real transport infastructure, you have to drive basically everywhere or fly more expense.there are also major social problems
> Drink drugs and the amount of teens that you read about every weekend being killed in car smashes it makes me sad but nothing seems to be done about it.
> you can start driving at fifteen Duh!! Drink driving is a major killer.this place is deffo 20 years behind the rest of the world
> oh and the clothing is ****, leather shoes cost a fortune, Number one shoe warehouse yeah!! plastic crap.............................


Hi, just to say I am a happy immigrant to NZ and have been reading posts from the odd unhappy one. Of course we all have different circumstances and myself and all our expat friends are quite happy here and have no desire to move to Aus. or back to the UK.

A lot of the above negatives seem to be from the local paper unless of course the writer is a drug using, partner beater. When one fails in a venture its always easier to blame the system, the country etc. it cannot be a personal failing can it?

Also I see Aussies. on the forum telling us our good it is over there, do they really need to rubbish NZ to get more immigrants or is it sour grapes.


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## kiwigser

FrancisJames said:


> If its fortune and lifestyle you're looking for give Australia a go?



Why do we have Aussis on a NZ forum touting for their country?


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## anski

kiwigser said:


> Hi, just to say I am a happy immigrant to NZ and have been reading posts from the odd unhappy one. Of course we all have different circumstances and myself and all our expat friends are quite happy here and have no desire to move to Aus. or back to the UK.
> 
> A lot of the above negatives seem to be from the local paper unless of course the writer is a drug using, partner beater. When one fails in a venture its always easier to blame the system, the country etc. it cannot be a personal failing can it?
> 
> Also I see Aussies. on the forum telling us our good it is over there, do they really need to rubbish NZ to get more immigrants or is it sour grapes.


No I think when people bleat about their move to Australia it maybe just to reassure themselves they made the right decision, cannot understand why they keep popping in the NZ forum & trying to upset everyone.
Although I lived in Australia for 32 years & love it most of the time, I loved NZ too & cannot wait to return.
I enjoy going back to AU because our children & grandchildren are there but quite happy to live in NZ & there are so many nice places here. Also no snakes or deadly spiders etc although to be honest they were not that big an issue.


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## kiwigser

poljen2001 said:


> HI all,
> 
> My family is thinking of immigrating to NZ in the near future and have already submitted an Expression of Interest. Ironically, after submitting my EOI, I have read a lot of good and bad things about living in NZ and it seems that I read more bad than good things about NZ, esp as regards cost of living, housing, crime rate and wages/salaries. Now I'm having second thoughts about pushing through with my EOI. Is it really that bad to live in NZ? I need to be enlightened. Thanks, guys.



Reading some of the replies, I despair. 

Auckland has been voted the 3rd best city in the world to live in

New Zealand is top of the league for state pensions (tied with the Nederlands)

It does have transport systems in the cities, but not enough population to support much intercity structure, but it does mean you can easily escape people. 

The health service is mostly free and is good (I can personally back that up)

We get great weather has compared to the UK and lots of outdoor activities to go with it.

Schools are generally very good, we have teacher friends.

We do not have a terrible drink problem its lower per head than the UK Ireland France and Aus.

You can get good clothes and shoes at reasonable prices, and yes you can get cheap plastic ones for the beach.

The cheaper houses are a bit rough, but most are large and roomy, our heating bill is a fraction of our UK one.

Second hand cars are cheap, petrol, not bad

There are plenty of ways to get on the water, we are all near the sea in Auckland

Kiwis are friendly and helpful, so long as you do not whing on about were you came from.

We get out a lot, maybe only camping, but there are lots to see and the season is a long one.

If coming over now the main problem is the high NZ dollar.

Lastly the Daily Mail (UK) found that the vast majority of UK expats were more than happy with NZ as their choice.

And we only have the intelligent Australians in NZ


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## anski

kiwigser said:


> Reading some of the replies, I despair.
> 
> Auckland has been voted the 3rd best city in the world to live in
> 
> New Zealand is top of the league for state pensions (tied with the Nederlands)
> 
> It does have transport systems in the cities, but not enough population to support much intercity structure, but it does mean you can easily escape people.
> 
> The health service is mostly free and is good (I can personally back that up)
> 
> We get great weather has compared to the UK and lots of outdoor activities to go with it.
> 
> Schools are generally very good, we have teacher friends.
> 
> We do not have a terrible drink problem its lower per head than the UK Ireland France and Aus.
> 
> You can get good clothes and shoes at reasonable prices, and yes you can get cheap plastic ones for the beach.
> 
> The cheaper houses are a bit rough, but most are large and roomy, our heating bill is a fraction of our UK one.
> 
> Second hand cars are cheap, petrol, not bad
> 
> There are plenty of ways to get on the water, we are all near the sea in Auckland
> 
> Kiwis are friendly and helpful, so long as you do not whing on about were you came from.
> 
> We get out a lot, maybe only camping, but there are lots to see and the season is a long one.
> 
> If coming over now the main problem is the high NZ dollar.
> 
> Lastly the Daily Mail (UK) found that the vast majority of UK expats were more than happy with NZ as their choice.
> 
> And we only have the intelligent Australians in NZ


 I think some people are dissatisfied wherever they are & find things to nit pick.

However I alway think they either thought the grass was greener (well it is isn't it?) or they disliked where they lived sufficiently or they wouldn't have left or be wanting to leave in the first place.
It is not easy but moving countries never was.


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## anski

kiwigser said:


> Reading some of the replies, I despair.
> 
> Auckland has been voted the 3rd best city in the world to live in
> 
> New Zealand is top of the league for state pensions (tied with the Nederlands)
> 
> It does have transport systems in the cities, but not enough population to support much intercity structure, but it does mean you can easily escape people.
> 
> The health service is mostly free and is good (I can personally back that up)
> 
> We get great weather has compared to the UK and lots of outdoor activities to go with it.
> 
> Schools are generally very good, we have teacher friends.
> 
> We do not have a terrible drink problem its lower per head than the UK Ireland France and Aus.
> 
> You can get good clothes and shoes at reasonable prices, and yes you can get cheap plastic ones for the beach.
> 
> The cheaper houses are a bit rough, but most are large and roomy, our heating bill is a fraction of our UK one.
> 
> Second hand cars are cheap, petrol, not bad
> 
> There are plenty of ways to get on the water, we are all near the sea in Auckland
> 
> Kiwis are friendly and helpful, so long as you do not whing on about were you came from.
> 
> We get out a lot, maybe only camping, but there are lots to see and the season is a long one.
> 
> If coming over now the main problem is the high NZ dollar.
> 
> Lastly the Daily Mail (UK) found that the vast majority of UK expats were more than happy with NZ as their choice.
> 
> And we only have the intelligent Australians in NZ


Well written thank you for expressing your views. Some people find it easier to sling arrows. Ignore them they'll go away & bang their soap box somewhere else.


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## kiwigser

anski said:


> I think some people are dissatisfied wherever they are & find things to nit pick.
> 
> However I alway think they either thought the grass was greener (well it is isn't it?) or they disliked where they lived sufficiently or they wouldn't have left or be wanting to leave in the first place.
> It is not easy but moving countries never was.


I agree, moving country is one hell of a step, but we found joining clubs etc. made fitting in much easier


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## jenswaters

FINALLY!!!!! I was starting to worry that there mainly negative people left on here. Thank you so much for all the positive posts.

Please remember, people who rant and belittle issues and countries are people who seem to be unable to see things from a balanced perspective. The points of view that are worth taking on board and digesting are the ones that don't ignore possible negatives, but come from people who are able to explain WHY such things happen, and what the flip side is. It's not just about everything being positive or negative...you DO have both in every country around the world. The difference is being able to see things from a balanced perspective. Yeah, feel free to express a negative, but at least try to explain WHY such a problem is around...as you say, swings and roundabouts.

Just because 1 person sees the low population and therefore supposedly-high cost of imported goods (i.e. living costs) as an issue, doesn't mean that others wouldn't rather have the higher expense at the plus of having a sparsly populated country that still has the friendliest people I have ever met. I use myself as an example...I really cannot stand much about the UK. I find it apologetic for our heritage, drowning in redtape and pc issues, a huge social divide with a class systems that create more problems for the gain of politicians. BUT THAT'S ME & MY OPINION. My brother thinks I'm crackers...he is the most patriotic person I know, thinks that the town we grew up in is the best thing since sliced bread, and that the drunken drug addicts on the street corners are just "teenagers being teenagers"! & THAT'S HIS OPINION.

People who sing the praises of 1 country over another have had a negative experience in 1 of the countries. Try and listen to anski & kiwigser...a wonderfully balanced set of views that highlight the pro's and con's for BOTH countries.

WELL DONE!


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## VickieP

I am a kiwi living in Aussie and miss NZ dearly. Sure, I get paid more here in Australia but I miss the beautiful scenery, the laid back lifestyle and emphasis on education in NZ (B.O.P in particular). I am a teacher and can definitely advocate the hard work teachers put in NZ, as opposed to QLD in AUstralia.

Yes, crime is a little high for my liking in NZ, but it is here in Aus too. Avoid the gangs, domestic abuse situations and getting wasted on booze and you will be fine!


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## jenswaters

VickieP said:


> I am a kiwi living in Aussie and miss NZ dearly. Sure, I get paid more here in Australia but I miss the beautiful scenery, the laid back lifestyle and emphasis on education in NZ (B.O.P in particular). I am a teacher and can definitely advocate the hard work teachers put in NZ, as opposed to QLD in AUstralia.
> 
> Yes, crime is a little high for my liking in NZ, but it is here in Aus too. Avoid the gangs, domestic abuse situations and getting wasted on booze and you will be fine!


EXACTLY!!!!! These issues exist the world over, but are the instances as high as in the UK??? HELL NO!!!!!!!!!! And don't even get me started on the people who use percentages as stats...how can it even be compared?!?!? Seriously, a % made up out of 76million people (UK) next to a % made up from 4 million (NZ)??? No comparison.

As for education, I too am a teacher (in BOP!!) and can attest to the significant level of work that teachers put in here...not for a paycheck, but because they LOVE what they do. Education is run by schools, BOT's and teachers...NOT a central government where politicians tell you what and how you must teach children. I have worked in education around the world, and this is the HAPPIEST I have ever been in a job. I love my job...because I am allowed to teach and focus on learning, NOT content as in the UK.

Anyway, :focus:
Yeah, lower wage in NZ, but a generally more people,family-focused place to be


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## VickieP

jenswaters said:


> EXACTLY!!!!! These issues exist the world over, but are the instances as high as in the UK??? HELL NO!!!!!!!!!! And don't even get me started on the people who use percentages as stats...how can it even be compared?!?!? Seriously, a % made up out of 76million people (UK) next to a % made up from 4 million (NZ)??? No comparison.
> 
> As for education, I too am a teacher (in BOP!!) and can attest to the significant level of work that teachers put in here...not for a paycheck, but because they LOVE what they do. Education is run by schools, BOT's and teachers...NOT a central government where politicians tell you what and how you must teach children. I have worked in education around the world, and this is the HAPPIEST I have ever been in a job. I love my job...because I am allowed to teach and focus on learning, NOT content as in the UK.
> 
> Anyway, :focus:
> Yeah, lower wage in NZ, but a generally more people,family-focused place to be


Could not have put it better myself! Teachers here (QLD) moan about their pay, work 9-3 and go home and wont do any professional development - this could just be the schools I have taught at. I have also lived in London... NZ definitely for great state education of kids I would say!


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## Marianne2010

Ask everybody about his/her home country... there is always something they don't like... And if they are bold enough to make the move to another country or even other countries they will always compare what they gain with what they gave up. It's human nature.
Some things I don't like in France. Some I liked in NZ or USA or Canada or any other country I visited/stayed in/worked in. Even if you try to fit in, you will always think of the past... and how you dreamt of a future that cannot be filled by the reality. It's because that's it: a dream. A dream of escaping from what you live actually, a dream of a better life for you and your kids.
As I wrote before, nobody can tell you how you will like or not a country. And as countries are not where you live, because you live in a city, a neighborhood, and every one is different from the other in terms of climate, facilities, schools, crime rate, asking generally if "NZ is bad" "Canada is good" "Could I fit in France" has no meaning whatsoever. The answers either. Whatever the reasons you want to leave a country for another, don't investigate on the net... go there. You are not living in a computer!


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## anski

Marianne2010 said:


> Ask everybody about his/her home country... there is always something they don't like... And if they are bold enough to make the move to another country or even other countries they will always compare what they gain with what they gave up. It's human nature.
> Some things I don't like in France. Some I liked in NZ or USA or Canada or any other country I visited/stayed in/worked in. Even if you try to fit in, you will always think of the past... and how you dreamt of a future that cannot be filled by the reality. It's because that's it: a dream. A dream of escaping from what you live actually, a dream of a better life for you and your kids.
> As I wrote before, nobody can tell you how you will like or not a country. And as countries are not where you live, because you live in a city, a neighborhood, and every one is different from the other in terms of climate, facilities, schools, crime rate, asking generally if "NZ is bad" "Canada is good" "Could I fit in France" has no meaning whatsoever. The answers either. Whatever the reasons you want to leave a country for another, don't investigate on the net... go there. You are not living in a computer!



Very true.

Ah Lyon -wonderful restaurants, must try & revisit there again before I head back to NZ


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## megansdad

*my point of view,*



poljen2001 said:


> HI all,
> 
> My family is thinking of immigrating to NZ in the near future and have already submitted an Expression of Interest. Ironically, after submitting my EOI, I have read a lot of good and bad things about living in NZ and it seems that I read more bad than good things about NZ, esp as regards cost of living, housing, crime rate and wages/salaries. Now I'm having second thoughts about pushing through with my EOI. Is it really that bad to live in NZ? I need to be enlightened. Thanks, guys.


Hey, you are very wise to do loads of research prior to moving.
I left Wales and moved to the US to be with my american wife, we decided after a trip to NZ to move and we have been here for 2yrs now. Yes there are good and bad,
the good,
beauty-everywhere, 
beaches quiet,
people friendly,

not so good,
cost of living in proportionally expensive
2 companies ultimately own all stores-result-fixed prices
tradesmen hearing an accent add a %% to the bill [we have tested this as we have a kiwi who works for us in our office, so the 3 of us have called for quotes, American accent got most expensive, my accent second, Kiwi cheapest.
vertually all our new goods bought have had to be returned/changed or mended within a short space of time, Murrano [Nissan] cooker, fridge, washing machine, iron [on number 3 now] kettle [number 2] our solid wood furniture,,, sideboard has spilt twice, chair seats split, our very [stuipidly so] expensive bed and furniture are all not good, doors no longer fit that have been replaced in the house [which is 5yrs old] and I could go on.

I wonder if second class goods are sent here, alot is made in a country known for poor quality.
The attitude from companies tend to be [not all the time but mostly] "well u need to get blah blah done and if I dont do it,, u dont have a choice.

There is a clear lack of competition, NZ would be greatly enhanced by IKEA, Lidl or Aldi,,,, ok they may not be good either but people would see how much the Great Kiwi Rip off [as we call it] is taking effect.
Ok people can say,,,, prices are due to imported goods,,, well if that was the case home made goods, meat, dairy etc would be far cheaper. My parents in Wales can buy New Zealand lamb and Anchor butter far cheaper than I can here.

I miss history,, though I didnt anticipate this when looking to move here-thats kinda odd really.

Generally houses are not built with heating or A/C though new houses may be,, the attitude seems to be put a jumper on if cold, and open a window when hot. Hummidity is also an issue and we had a system placed in the house to allegedly help remove this .

Also if you are looking to come,,, may I suggest you research where the biting flies are/are not,,,, we did check and asked the real estate agent and we were told no, not where we were looking to buy a house, we bought the house and I am basically bitten everyday-regardless of repellent.

I am aware this may make scary reading, and I am sure there are many many people who have had a wonderful experience, however this has been ours.


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## Addicted to NZ

Its terrible here...don't dare move here /sarcasm














Yep...pretty crappy here


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## kiwigser

megansdad said:


> Hey, you are very wise to do loads of research prior to moving.
> I left Wales and moved to the US to be with my american wife, we decided after a trip to NZ to move and we have been here for 2yrs now. Yes there are good and bad,
> the good,
> beauty-everywhere,
> beaches quiet,
> people friendly,
> 
> not so good,
> cost of living in proportionally expensive
> 2 companies ultimately own all stores-result-fixed prices
> tradesmen hearing an accent add a %% to the bill [we have tested this as we have a kiwi who works for us in our office, so the 3 of us have called for quotes, American accent got most expensive, my accent second, Kiwi cheapest.
> vertually all our new goods bought have had to be returned/changed or mended within a short space of time, Murrano [Nissan] cooker, fridge, washing machine, iron [on number 3 now] kettle [number 2] our solid wood furniture,,, sideboard has spilt twice, chair seats split, our very [stuipidly so] expensive bed and furniture are all not good, doors no longer fit that have been replaced in the house [which is 5yrs old] and I could go on.
> 
> I wonder if second class goods are sent here, alot is made in a country known for poor quality.
> The attitude from companies tend to be [not all the time but mostly] "well u need to get blah blah done and if I dont do it,, u dont have a choice.
> 
> There is a clear lack of competition, NZ would be greatly enhanced by IKEA, Lidl or Aldi,,,, ok they may not be good either but people would see how much the Great Kiwi Rip off [as we call it] is taking effect.
> Ok people can say,,,, prices are due to imported goods,,, well if that was the case home made goods, meat, dairy etc would be far cheaper. My parents in Wales can buy New Zealand lamb and Anchor butter far cheaper than I can here.
> 
> I miss history,, though I didnt anticipate this when looking to move here-thats kinda odd really.
> 
> Generally houses are not built with heating or A/C though new houses may be,, the attitude seems to be put a jumper on if cold, and open a window when hot. Hummidity is also an issue and we had a system placed in the house to allegedly help remove this .
> 
> Also if you are looking to come,,, may I suggest you research where the biting flies are/are not,,,, we did check and asked the real estate agent and we were told no, not where we were looking to buy a house, we bought the house and I am basically bitten everyday-regardless of repellent.
> 
> I am aware this may make scary reading, and I am sure there are many many people who have had a wonderful experience, however this has been ours.


This is a difficult one to reply to, you have had a bad time. We did install Heat pumps / ac and they make life much more comfortable, must admit not had many problems with cars / equipment.

The only problem we get with biting, is sitting out in the evening from the mozzies.

Looks like you have had everyone else's share of bad luck.


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## megansdad

its funny how replies to posts are responded to without reading the post they are replying too.

I stated NZ is beautiful and sure your vid clips indicate this, but the vid clips do not cover the houses, ours cost $1 million and its like a cardboard box-nothing solid about it at all, we were lucky enough to have purchased it outright so dont have a mortgage.

As for the moderator who indicated that people who moan may be less inteligent, respectfully I remind you that the origin of this topic was to ask for peoples input and not for other members to belittle others. I clearly stated the opinion given was our experience-which was asked for.

Please do not preach about occulational/lifestyle balance I am more than aware of this, for you or anyone else to indicate otherwise shows such bad manners. A teacher you may be, but I hope you teach in a more objective manner.


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## kiwigser

megansdad said:


> its funny how replies to posts are responded to without reading the post they are replying too.
> 
> I stated NZ is beautiful and sure your vid clips indicate this, but the vid clips do not cover the houses, ours cost $1 million and its like a cardboard box-nothing solid about it at all, we were lucky enough to have purchased it outright so dont have a mortgage.
> 
> As for the moderator who indicated that people who moan may be less inteligent, respectfully I remind you that the origin of this topic was to ask for peoples input and not for other members to belittle others. I clearly stated the opinion given was our experience-which was asked for.
> 
> Please do not preach about occulational/lifestyle balance I am more than aware of this, for you or anyone else to indicate otherwise shows such bad manners. A teacher you may be, but I hope you teach in a more objective manner.


Sorry not sure who this post is for, me or someone else, I not a moderator or a teacher and I certainly was not trying to preach, but if I have given offence I apologise


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## anski

megansdad said:


> Hey, you are very wise to do loads of research prior to moving.
> I left Wales and moved to the US to be with my american wife, we decided after a trip to NZ to move and we have been here for 2yrs now. Yes there are good and bad,
> the good,
> beauty-everywhere,
> beaches quiet,
> people friendly,
> 
> not so good,
> cost of living in proportionally expensive
> 2 companies ultimately own all stores-result-fixed prices
> tradesmen hearing an accent add a %% to the bill [we have tested this as we have a kiwi who works for us in our office, so the 3 of us have called for quotes, American accent got most expensive, my accent second, Kiwi cheapest.
> vertually all our new goods bought have had to be returned/changed or mended within a short space of time, Murrano [Nissan] cooker, fridge, washing machine, iron [on number 3 now] kettle [number 2] our solid wood furniture,,, sideboard has spilt twice, chair seats split, our very [stuipidly so] expensive bed and furniture are all not good, doors no longer fit that have been replaced in the house [which is 5yrs old] and I could go on.
> 
> I wonder if second class goods are sent here, alot is made in a country known for poor quality.
> The attitude from companies tend to be [not all the time but mostly] "well u need to get blah blah done and if I dont do it,, u dont have a choice.
> 
> There is a clear lack of competition, NZ would be greatly enhanced by IKEA, Lidl or Aldi,,,, ok they may not be good either but people would see how much the Great Kiwi Rip off [as we call it] is taking effect.
> Ok people can say,,,, prices are due to imported goods,,, well if that was the case home made goods, meat, dairy etc would be far cheaper. My parents in Wales can buy New Zealand lamb and Anchor butter far cheaper than I can here.
> 
> I miss history,, though I didnt anticipate this when looking to move here-thats kinda odd really.
> 
> Generally houses are not built with heating or A/C though new houses may be,, the attitude seems to be put a jumper on if cold, and open a window when hot. Hummidity is also an issue and we had a system placed in the house to allegedly help remove this .
> 
> Also if you are looking to come,,, may I suggest you research where the biting flies are/are not,,,, we did check and asked the real estate agent and we were told no, not where we were looking to buy a house, we bought the house and I am basically bitten everyday-regardless of repellent.
> 
> I am aware this may make scary reading, and I am sure there are many many people who have had a wonderful experience, however this has been ours.


I take it by referring to 2 companies you are referring to the 2 chains that operate the various Food Supermarkets (Stores)

As for being overcharged for your accent, never experienced that in my 8 years of employing tradesmen getting quote & I certainly Do Not Have a Kiwi Accent.

Cannot believe you have had so much bad luck with appliances especially as most goods are manufactured in a number of different countries.

When I arrived in NZ I bought a complete house full of furniture & appliances & in 8 years the only thing I ever took back was a Juicer which broke after 10 months use every day. On production of my receipt (which is proof of guarantee/warranty validity) the assistant cheerfully replaced it with a brand new replacement.

I cannot believe overseas companies single NZ out to send their second class goods, you cannot seriously believe that.

If you want Ikea you have a choice I imported a complete kitchen with accessories from Australia even taking into account the cost of my return air ticket & shipping it was much cheaper than any kitchen I had priced locally. So you have a choice & incidentally most of the components of the kitchen were manufactured in countries other than Australia yet that kitchen has stood up to 8 years of my use & 2 years from 2 lots of tenants who might not have been as careful as I would be.

Yes & you can buy NZ lamb & butter etc cheaper out of NZ & it was the same 59 years ago when I used to buy NZ goods in UK. The reason being they are subsidised. Often many countries also export their best fruit etc. All about exports which every country needs for it's balance of payments.
As for insect bites, have fly screens fitted.

My house has central heating & is insulated & being 80 years old well built with ventilation & does not suffer from humidity problems. Modern houses are so well sealed they sweat.


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## megansdad

*hey Kiwigser,*

no that mssg was most not ment for u not at all, and I apologise if it seemed that way, there were a few prior posts that my comments were directed too but when I attempted to post in direct responce I was not allowed,, maybe cause I am seen as a "newie!'

I appreciate your reply, yes I think we have had everyones poor luck-which is a shame and has sadly tainted our view of this beatiful country.


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## Gimme5

megansdad said:


> its funny how replies to posts are responded to without reading the post they are replying too.
> 
> I stated NZ is beautiful and sure your vid clips indicate this, but the vid clips do not cover the houses, ours cost $1 million and its like a cardboard box-nothing solid about it at all, we were lucky enough to have purchased it outright so dont have a mortgage.
> 
> As for the moderator who indicated that people who moan may be less inteligent, respectfully I remind you that the origin of this topic was to ask for peoples input and not for other members to belittle others. I clearly stated the opinion given was our experience-which was asked for.
> 
> Please do not preach about occulational/lifestyle balance I am more than aware of this, for you or anyone else to indicate otherwise shows such bad manners. A teacher you may be, but I hope you teach in a more objective manner.


It's good to see that someone actually bothers to respond because I don't, not anymore at least. But while I'm at it, just one more thing to say to the original poster and that is despite the claim to being an open and multicultural society, you need to be aware that there's also an insidious under-current of intolerance to people who look or sound different (or worse both), the exception maybe to those who speak with a posh accent. However, the laid back lifestyle is great if that's what you're after.


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## Addicted to NZ

Good or bad...come on - it is all a manner of perspective. Isn't it?

I just hope everyone finds the place they want to be....


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## kiwigser

megansdad said:


> no that mssg was most not ment for u not at all, and I apologise if it seemed that way, there were a few prior posts that my comments were directed too but when I attempted to post in direct responce I was not allowed,, maybe cause I am seen as a "newie!'
> 
> I appreciate your reply, yes I think we have had everyones poor luck-which is a shame and has sadly tainted our view of this beatiful country.


Thanks. I think you have to have a few posts to get things working, something like 5, I have just passed that thresh hold. Anyway why are we on computers on a day like today?


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## Gimme5

kiwigser said:


> Thanks. I think you have to have a few posts to get things working, something like 5, I have just passed that thresh hold. Anyway why are we on computers on a day like today?


Don't know about you KG but in a few hours, I'll be out in the gulf in my boat.


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## Addicted to NZ

I'll be out golfing


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## kiwigser

Gimme5 said:


> Don't know about you KG but in a few hours, I'll be out in the gulf in my boat.


Quote of the day!!


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## Gimme5

Addicted to NZ said:


> I'll be out golfing


Damn. You're tempting me to squeeze in 18 holes tomorrow before the regatta on Friday.


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## kiwigser

Gimme5 said:


> Damn. You're tempting me to squeeze in 18 holes tomorrow before the regatta on Friday.


You realise, we will get our wrists slap (or worse) by the moderators for nattering. Any way, this is the best time of the year, not so hot, calm seas, its a terrible life.


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## Addicted to NZ

Gimme5 said:


> Damn. You're tempting me to squeeze in 18 holes tomorrow before the regatta on Friday.


You know the best part about it....back in the part of Canada (we called home). They have had 10-12 snow storms of 20-30cm each this winter (about 1 or 2 every week since the start of Jan 2011). 

When we left Dec 2010...everyone was saying ohhhh you will miss winter...I laughed...will see...will see :boink: 

Sure enough....they all loved the first storm/snowfall of the year...then around the 2nd week of Jan they cry/moan/bpitch about how freaking sick they are of snow/ice/shoveling/find car parking spots/someone stole my shoveled out car spot/sanding driveway/re-sanding cause ice melted over sand/ice/so cold the car won't start/icy sidewalks/can't park on the street tonight snowstorm tonight/using a hatchet to get down to pavement to get up the driveway/snow bringing down trees across the driveway.

We just laugh 

And to top it off..this week they have had freezing rain...and I think another storm of freezing rain later this week....

Yep...we so miss winter in Canada :confused2:


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## Gimme5

kiwigser said:


> You realise, we will get our wrists slap (or worse) by the moderators for nattering. Any way, this is the best time of the year, not so hot, calm seas, its a terrible life.


Not straying from the topic at all; just illustrating the many challenges and dilemma one face daily because life here can be brutal.


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## kiwigser

Addicted to NZ said:


> You know the best part about it....back in the part of Canada (we called home). They have had 10-12 snow storms of 20-30cm each this winter (about 1 or 2 every week since the start of Jan 2011).
> 
> When we left Dec 2010...everyone was saying ohhhh you will miss winter...I laughed...will see...will see :boink:
> 
> Sure enough....they all loved the first storm/snowfall of the year...then around the 2nd week of Jan they cry/moan/bpitch about how freaking sick they are of snow/ice/shoveling/find car parking spots/someone stole my shoveled out car spot/sanding driveway/re-sanding cause ice melted over sand/ice/so cold the car won't start/icy sidewalks/can't park on the street tonight snowstorm tonight/using a hatchet to get down to pavement to get up the driveway/snow bringing down trees across the driveway.
> 
> We just laugh
> 
> And to top it off..this week they have had freezing rain...and I think another storm of freezing rain later this week....
> 
> Yep...we so miss winter in Canada :confused2:


They will get there own back in August, when its raining here. 
We are off to Canada in May, I will pass on your best wishes


----------



## Addicted to NZ

kiwigser said:


> They will get there own back in August, when its raining here.
> We are off to Canada in May, I will pass on your best wishes


I can handle shoveling rain any day. Being from Saint John NB, during Summer it wasn't uncommon to get perhaps 2,3,4 weeks of foggy days, and an all time record of 6 weeks of fog (we haven't even thrown in the 3-4 days per week of rain or even a couple weeks of it). One thing about Canada....guaranteed it will be wet/cold/snow and a long winter.....but in Canada....summer is never guaranteed to be long....heck might not even show up some years. 

Ever see the funny commercial that pretty much sums Canadian winters -

Guy at light switch turns the light off and says....WINTER WINTER WINTER, turns light on - SUMMER!...then off again...WINTER WINTER WINTER

Winters in Dargaville is a walk in the park..

"Like the rest of the Northland region, Dargaville has a subtropical climate with warm summers and very mild winters. A subtropical climate brings an average temperature of 16 to 25°C in summer months and 15 to 17°C in winter."

Average annual rainfall (mm): 1,500
Average annual sunshine hours: 2,000
Average summer temperature (°C): 20
Average winter temperature (°C): 16 

Average winter temps of 16C - Hehe i've seen cooler temps in the maritime cities on occasion, during "Summer".

Hope you have a good trip to Canada.....I'll be golfing in August also. If your going to Calgary....might want to keep the winter wear and shovel handy....not uncommon from them to get a dump of snow in August 

NZ isn't perfect...its not all that bad either, it just is not for everyone. All a matter of perspective and where you are coming from....


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## topcat83

kiwigser said:


> You realise, we will get our wrists slap (or worse) by the moderators for nattering. Any way, this is the best time of the year, not so hot, calm seas, its a terrible life.


Now boys, behave yourselves :whip:


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## jenswaters

megansdad said:


> its funny how replies to posts are responded to without reading the post they are replying too.
> 
> I stated NZ is beautiful and sure your vid clips indicate this, but the vid clips do not cover the houses, ours cost $1 million and its like a cardboard box-nothing solid about it at all, we were lucky enough to have purchased it outright so dont have a mortgage.
> 
> As for the moderator who indicated that people who moan may be less inteligent, respectfully I remind you that the origin of this topic was to ask for peoples input and not for other members to belittle others. I clearly stated the opinion given was our experience-which was asked for.
> 
> Please do not preach about occulational/lifestyle balance I am more than aware of this, for you or anyone else to indicate otherwise shows such bad manners. A teacher you may be, but I hope you teach in a more objective manner.


I am puzzled...was this aimed at me??? If so, let me assure you that there was NO question of people's intelligence whatsoever in relation to "moaning"...I am the biggest advocate of people having their say. Sadly, there are people like yourself who have had every piece of bad luck and, while they appreciate the work/life balance, it has been marred by such unfortunate experiences. I welcome people to share their experiences. What I DID say was a warning to people that if they use percentages to highlight a point, then the population differences makes it a tad unfair, and for readers to bare this in mind. Not everyone is aware of the population differences. Belittling....not at all. I take offense at the "bad manners" reference...I don't actually believe that I was being rude. There are people who would have read that thread who DON'T understand the work/life balance here in NZ. And PLEASE don't question my teaching...it is irrelevant.

If this wasn't directed at me and my comments, I apologise. I am a little lost as to who it was referring to!

Again, I am sorry that you have had such negative experiences here. Sadly for those who love it here and have had nothing but positive experiences, there are others who have had the exact opposite...but I suppose that could happen in any country


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## topcat83

megansdad said:


> ....As for the moderator who indicated that people who moan may be less inteligent, respectfully I remind you that the origin of this topic was to ask for peoples input and not for other members to belittle others. I clearly stated the opinion given was our experience-which was asked for.....


I'm with Jen here. I do hope I'm not the moderator you're referring to (because I certainly don't remember saying such comments) - but if anything I have said has been misinterpreted, then please accept my apologies too. This forum is here to enable people to present both their positive and negative experiences and although discussion is encouraged I hope no-ones point of view is belittled by another.


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## donilo252525

"Can't we all just get along?" - Rodney King

Really. We can disagree. We can like and not like. Let's not get into cyber space personal battles - they're unreliable, potentially hurtful and pointless - all that results is everyone feeling worse. What kind of accomplishment is that?

C'mon - rain happens, sun happens, s*** happens, good things happen. 

"Let it Be." - (you know who )

donilo


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## topcat83

donilo252525 said:


> "Can't we all just get along?" - Rodney King
> 
> Really. We can disagree. We can like and not like. Let's not get into cyber space personal battles - they're unreliable, potentially hurtful and pointless - all that results is everyone feeling worse. What kind of accomplishment is that?
> 
> C'mon - rain happens, sun happens, s*** happens, good things happen.
> 
> "Let it Be." - (you know who )
> 
> donilo


Lol - love the quotes. And quite agree. Wouldn't it be a boring forum if we all agreed with each other??


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## MadFam

poljen2001 said:


> HI all,
> 
> My family is thinking of immigrating to NZ in the near future and have already submitted an Expression of Interest. Ironically, after submitting my EOI, I have read a lot of good and bad things about living in NZ and it seems that I read more bad than good things about NZ, esp as regards cost of living, housing, crime rate and wages/salaries. Now I'm having second thoughts about pushing through with my EOI. Is it really that bad to live in NZ? I need to be enlightened. Thanks, guys.


My feeling is that anywhere you choose to live will have good and bad points. The main point about NZ is quality of life. It's fabulous. Overall people just don't take life quite so seriously. They'll leave the office early if the surf's up, the pace of work is slower - people just don't feel the need to rush everything so much. You really live outdoors a lot of the time, which is wonderful. Yes, the cost of living is a bit higher, there isn't the same public transport etc etc, but honestly, since quitting my city career and coming to NZ to earn way less, I've been 300% happier.


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## dawnclaremaddox

I was born in the early 60's in the East End of London and know what it was like to bathe in front of the fire in a tin bath. 
Before I got married I worked in London in communications spending 3 hours a day travelling ( and that was on a good day!) by train. 
We wanted to move from the rat race and moved to Wiltshire, having bought a derelict property and lived in caravans for 6 months and still haven't finished after 17 years, Over that time I have seen towns double in size and new schools having to be built for them. 
Where I live you can get a bus that can take you 30 miles but no good for a 9-5 as you can only get the bus back to about 6 miles from home and the local station is 5 miles away, so we have to drive. 
I am a delivery driver on the minimum wage of £5.73 and am happy. I drive a 20 year old car and love it and am sad that we are leaving it behind. We attend a lot of vintage shows, take our lorry and 29ft caravan and because of this, we are looked upon that we should be living on a council estate. I hate the snobbery here, I always feel that I am being looked down on. 
My other half and I have worked very hard for what we have and now we have to opportunity to move to NZ. We are under no illusion to the pro's and con's that may/may not arise, but I do feel that the people that we met in NZ and the lifestyle (expensive maybe), really made us feel at home.
We just want to live our lives the way we want and not be ruled by people who feel because they are richer than you, or more educated than you, that you have to conform to what they want.
I do feel that the UK has lost a bit of it's greatness and I have no regrets about leaving here for NZ, it's the only place that we have considered going to and yes we have been there around both islands.


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## toebeenz

*After 10 years.........*

After 10 years I've had enough and moved. The boy racers, the violence, the gangs, the drugs and the fast rising prices.....who needs it? 30,000 Kiwis left last year to find a better life in Australia, that says it all.




mt3 said:


> Hi we have been here for 7 years now, and have had enough, do not be fooled by the clean green image, its a Myth as for a life style if you cant afford it forget it.
> NZ is far to expensive, There is real poverty here. Do not buy a house you are paying through the nose for what is basicaly an expensive shed. Be warned if you still feel the need to purchase property the Kiwi's love to make alterations internal and external without the required consents resulting in an unsuspecting buyer on trying to sell said property with huge fee's trying to get flat plans altered so it can be sold major stress!! make sure you obtain a lim report, a building report,
> and make sure all alterations have the required consents and employ Legal advice that can be trusted. goes for the real estate side to but they have cleaned up there act a bit.
> Sure its pretty here, But there is no real transport infastructure, you have to drive basically everywhere or fly more expense.there are also major social problems
> Drink drugs and the amount of teens that you read about every weekend being killed in car smashes it makes me sad but nothing seems to be done about it.
> you can start driving at fifteen Duh!! Drink driving is a major killer.this place is deffo 20 years behind the rest of the world
> oh and the clothing is ****, leather shoes cost a fortune, Number one shoe warehouse yeah!! plastic crap.............................


----------



## mattpenaflorida

alansheffield said:


> I love it - yes there are good and bad but overall its a great place to b...fab countryside, great beaches, really nice people and a chilled life style..love it


Hi Alan - Good to see things are going well over there - what's your overall opinion now that you've been there a while? We're still planning - so some ideas about where to rent in Auckland would be great now you've had time to wander round!

Cheers

Matt


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## topcat83

dawnclaremaddox said:


> I was born in the early 60's in the East End of London and know what it was like to bathe in front of the fire in a tin bath.
> Before I got married I worked in London in communications spending 3 hours a day travelling ( and that was on a good day!) by train.
> We wanted to move from the rat race and moved to Wiltshire, having bought a derelict property and lived in caravans for 6 months and still haven't finished after 17 years, Over that time I have seen towns double in size and new schools having to be built for them.
> Where I live you can get a bus that can take you 30 miles but no good for a 9-5 as you can only get the bus back to about 6 miles from home and the local station is 5 miles away, so we have to drive.
> I am a delivery driver on the minimum wage of £5.73 and am happy. I drive a 20 year old car and love it and am sad that we are leaving it behind. We attend a lot of vintage shows, take our lorry and 29ft caravan and because of this, we are looked upon that we should be living on a council estate. I hate the snobbery here, I always feel that I am being looked down on.
> My other half and I have worked very hard for what we have and now we have to opportunity to move to NZ. We are under no illusion to the pro's and con's that may/may not arise, but I do feel that the people that we met in NZ and the lifestyle (expensive maybe), really made us feel at home.
> We just want to live our lives the way we want and not be ruled by people who feel because they are richer than you, or more educated than you, that you have to conform to what they want.
> I do feel that the UK has lost a bit of it's greatness and I have no regrets about leaving here for NZ, it's the only place that we have considered going to and yes we have been there around both islands.


You should find some like-minded people here. Although we don't have the huge population of the UK, we do have some very enthusiastic classic vehicle clubs. We are in an MG Car club - in Auckland alone there are 500 members. The other week we went through Raglan and there was a classic American car show. And when in South Island (in our MG) we passed (fortunately in the opposite direction) 50 vintage tractors driving down the West Coast. As each one waved to us i felt like the Queen Mum, waving back!

I'd investigate bringing your car over - it will need to be thoroughly cleaned, but if it is a 20 years old car it probably won't need to go through some of the conditions that a younger second hand car would.
Alternatively most clubs have a 'for sale' section - our MG club certainly does 
Here's the link to the nationwide MG club MG Car Club, MG Classic Racing and Theseus Management Group - you might find some more interesting links on the 'links' page.


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## toebeenz

*Good Luck.....*

I hope you find what you are looking for........I didn't!

I found that the average Kiwi is a nice enough bloke but their attitudes are 50 years behind the times and they openly admit to having the 'tall poppy syndrome' whereby if you are seen to be doing well they will want to bring you down.

All the best to you.


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## kiwigser

toebeenz said:


> After 10 years I've had enough and moved. The boy racers, the violence, the gangs, the drugs and the fast rising prices.....who needs it? 30,000 Kiwis left last year to find a better life in Australia, that says it all.


Thats what I like to see, balanced criticism. Surely no country is all bad (except perhaps Libya at the moment). There must have been something good. I left the UK for a better life but would never slag it off, it gave me a good life. I believe Australia and Cyprus are not perfect.


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## abroad

*It will be how you make it...*

I was born in the UK, raised and naturalised in australia and moved permanently to NZ 2 1/2 years ago. I gave it 5 years to find my feet and came here simply because of my Husband who is a Kiwi.

Food prices are on par with my part of NSW. Petrol is hugely expensive compared to my part of NSW, as is LPG. However in my part of NSW we would not have the spring water coming into our home that we have here. We have a huge number of farming animals and pets that we could not have had in ''my'' part of NSW.

I got a job within a month of being here, my Husband within 2. We have started our own business (were self employed in NSW) and that is ticking along ok considering the economic climate that is affecting the western world. 

My parents immigrated to NZ a year after we did. My advice to them then was rent for a while and have a good look around. There is good and bad everywhere in all walks of life. I don't particularly think much of the UK tenants in our Aussie home but there you go... 

Just take the time to look, listen and keep an open mind. I reckon we are living in a lucky country compared to others and whilst I do get homesick for NSW, we are doing ok and our daughter has grown so much in so many ways she didn't back home.

Make of it what you will.....


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## jenswaters

abroad said:


> I was born in the UK, raised and naturalised in australia and moved permanently to NZ 2 1/2 years ago. I gave it 5 years to find my feet and came here simply because of my Husband who is a Kiwi.
> 
> Food prices are on par with my part of NSW. Petrol is hugely expensive compared to my part of NSW, as is LPG. However in my part of NSW we would not have the spring water coming into our home that we have here. We have a huge number of farming animals and pets that we could not have had in ''my'' part of NSW.
> 
> I got a job within a month of being here, my Husband within 2. We have started our own business (were self employed in NSW) and that is ticking along ok considering the economic climate that is affecting the western world.
> 
> My parents immigrated to NZ a year after we did. My advice to them then was rent for a while and have a good look around. There is good and bad everywhere in all walks of life. I don't particularly think much of the UK tenants in our Aussie home but there you go...
> 
> Just take the time to look, listen and keep an open mind. I reckon we are living in a lucky country compared to others and whilst I do get homesick for NSW, we are doing ok and our daughter has grown so much in so many ways she didn't back home.
> 
> Make of it what you will.....


Great post:clap2:

It's awesome to have someone doing the comparisons between Aus and NZ, too. We often get negatives for one or the other, but yours is just facts. Glad you are enjoying NZ


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## abroad

Many thanks for your support for my post....! I will add a bit more if you like.

We bought over one of our cars here, its cheaper to keep on the road legally than in NSW. Remember Aussie has 3 tiers of govt Federal, state and local that you pay various taxes and rates to. Here in NZ its just 2, national and local.

both countries have GST, here its 15% whereas in Aussie (I still think) its 10% but not on fresh foods (but if you buy a charcoal chicken, flavoured milk or takeaway then expect to pay GST).

Its cheaper for our daughter to go to a Doctor here than NSW with our private GP. Her medication (when she has had to have some) has always been cheaper. Both her and I have been through the medical system here with accidents, for me I accidently set myself on fire 2 years ago and mostly it was covered by ACC, whereas back in NSW I would have been asked to declare my private health cover at the public hospital and I would have been duly charged excess. I refused on two occasions in NSW to disclose whether I had private health cover because I considered we paid enough via medicare levy on our incomes to support basic accidential public hospital cover. I was assured I wasn't about to receive additional benefits by declaring my coverage though!

We used to buy cheap DVD's etc when we visited at the warehouse. They still are cheap and they special the new releases regularly. However whilst in aussie I found a cheaper supplier in Singapore but relied on friends travelling there to bring them in for me....

Hmmm, what else. I could buy NZ fillet and rump steak cheaper at my local wholesaler than here, however aussie rump is cheaper here than there. My daughter's aussie formula and nappies were cheaper in NZ than NSW when we travelled for our holidays, same with my fav aussie chardonnay which is no longer available. I buy wirra Wirra red wine (aussie brand) here for my daugher's godfathers cheaper than they can buy it in Sydney.

Some attitudes are different but I don't believe any more so than any other western country. Those who haven't travelled or don't have close relos overseas have a more contained outlook and blame others easily for their own mess ups. However good and bad people come in equal doses in both countries. 

So in summary I want to say you are going to feel homesick which ever country you end up in. Its ok, normal. 

It took me some time to stop wishing I could go home and when I analysed it, going home was more about my previous lifestyle than actually missing the countryside itself. i do miss face to face contact with our mates though, but then that isn't NZ fault! 

I am heading back for 5 days next month, happy to let you know how I feel when in either direction...


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## topcat83

abroad said:


> Many thanks for your support for my post....! I will add a bit more if you like.
> 
> We bought over one of our cars here, its cheaper to keep on the road legally than in NSW. Remember Aussie has 3 tiers of govt Federal, state and local that you pay various taxes and rates to. Here in NZ its just 2, national and local.
> 
> both countries have GST, here its 15% whereas in Aussie (I still think) its 10% but not on fresh foods (but if you buy a charcoal chicken, flavoured milk or takeaway then expect to pay GST).
> 
> Its cheaper for our daughter to go to a Doctor here than NSW with our private GP. Her medication (when she has had to have some) has always been cheaper. Both her and I have been through the medical system here with accidents, for me I accidently set myself on fire 2 years ago and mostly it was covered by ACC, whereas back in NSW I would have been asked to declare my private health cover at the public hospital and I would have been duly charged excess. I refused on two occasions in NSW to disclose whether I had private health cover because I considered we paid enough via medicare levy on our incomes to support basic accidential public hospital cover. I was assured I wasn't about to receive additional benefits by declaring my coverage though!
> 
> We used to buy cheap DVD's etc when we visited at the warehouse. They still are cheap and they special the new releases regularly. However whilst in aussie I found a cheaper supplier in Singapore but relied on friends travelling there to bring them in for me....
> 
> Hmmm, what else. I could buy NZ fillet and rump steak cheaper at my local wholesaler than here, however aussie rump is cheaper here than there. My daughter's aussie formula and nappies were cheaper in NZ than NSW when we travelled for our holidays, same with my fav aussie chardonnay which is no longer available. I buy wirra Wirra red wine (aussie brand) here for my daugher's godfathers cheaper than they can buy it in Sydney.
> 
> Some attitudes are different but I don't believe any more so than any other western country. Those who haven't travelled or don't have close relos overseas have a more contained outlook and blame others easily for their own mess ups. However good and bad people come in equal doses in both countries.
> 
> So in summary I want to say you are going to feel homesick which ever country you end up in. Its ok, normal.
> 
> It took me some time to stop wishing I could go home and when I analysed it, going home was more about my previous lifestyle than actually missing the countryside itself. i do miss face to face contact with our mates though, but then that isn't NZ fault!
> 
> I am heading back for 5 days next month, happy to let you know how I feel when in either direction...


Many thanks for this - it's great to hear about the differences between Oz & NZ.

Keep them coming...


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## anski

Hi Abroad,

We have a lot in common. 

I also was born in the UK, Lived in Australia for 32 years & naturalized in Australia. I moved to NZ permanently 2001 where I have lived since apart from my extended overseas holiday.

During the last 10 years I have made many return trips to Australia to visit & help family spending approx 4 months every year in Australia.
Over the past 40 years I have seen so much of Australia & now I have reached a stage where I really do not want to visit Australia any more it is only for family reasons I go. 

I much prefer New Zealand.

You also forgot to mention there is stamp duty payable in Australia if buying a car or a house, so really adds a lot to the price. The amount varies from state to state also.

There is no stamp duty on cars & houses in New Zealand, so those higher wages they crow about in Australia are not really so much higher if you take these costs into consideration. I estimate over the years I lived in Australia buying different houses & cars I must have spent over AU $100,000 on stamp Duty!


----------



## abroad

Yes that's also right, capital gains tax on investment property in Aussie (even a vacant piece of land is subject to it) and also if you own your own home less than 2 years and sell it and make a profit from the sale.

I have seen many items in the media here as I am sure you have Anski where Aussie is really talked ''up''. People at work talk about ''moving to australia'' for a better life and really they have no idea, but do take new attitudes and ethics with them that had they done so here would see them miles ahead. I recognise though its difficult to get Oneself out of a familiar rut too.

Property in NSW in general has been in decline for a numbers of years. For example our house back there is now worth $A200k less than it was 5 years ago, however media talks about booming times yet my Cousin in Western Australia who bought well, improved etc but decided to sell, sold on the verge of the decline of the WA housing market. He tells me he was lucky to achieve his sale when he did.

i don't want people to think i am talking down aussie, because it is a lovely vast country and it gave me a good and safe childhood and positive attitude. We all whinge about the Govt in whatever Country we live. 
However from my experience I don't believe that the current thinking of moving to Australia over/out of New Zealand would be any better is right.

people will make of their move what they want to from it.


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## anski

abroad said:


> Yes that's also right, capital gains tax on investment property in Aussie (even a vacant piece of land is subject to it) and also if you own your own home less than 2 years and sell it and make a profit from the sale.
> 
> I have seen many items in the media here as I am sure you have Anski where Aussie is really talked ''up''. People at work talk about ''moving to australia'' for a better life and really they have no idea, but do take new attitudes and ethics with them that had they done so here would see them miles ahead. I recognise though its difficult to get Oneself out of a familiar rut too.
> 
> Property in NSW in general has been in decline for a numbers of years. For example our house back there is now worth $A200k less than it was 5 years ago, however media talks about booming times yet my Cousin in Western Australia who bought well, improved etc but decided to sell, sold on the verge of the decline of the WA housing market. He tells me he was lucky to achieve his sale when he did.
> 
> i don't want people to think i am talking down aussie, because it is a lovely vast country and it gave me a good and safe childhood and positive attitude. We all whinge about the Govt in whatever Country we live.
> However from my experience I don't believe that the current thinking of moving to Australia over/out of New Zealand would be any better is right.
> 
> people will make of their move what they want to from it.


I totally agree with you.
I love both counties never for a moment regret living in Sydney, our children grew up in nice neighborhoods, had great State schools etc.

But what really annoyed me was that in spite of paying Medicare (compulsory) & also paying for private medical cover you never had 100% cover.

After claiming from private for for any medical or hospital fund alway left a 20% gap. I used to work for a private medical fund & the government WOULD NOT allow them to pay back 100% even though funds had piles of money & wanted to do so.
When I first arrived in NZ I fell & hurt my wrist & went to outpatients of Auckland hospital. I had wonderful fast treatment xray & strapped up & the Dr gave me a letter to have Physio etc. Did not understand the system because in australia this is not available free of charge. Also knew a woman (not working) fell on rocks had 2 operations & masses of Dr & Physio visits all paid for by ACC & she had not contributed 1 cent.
Cannot believe Pathology is free in NZ also & after my husband's cardiac surgery a nurse made daily house call to collect his blood for a month- No Charge!
So there are many differences between the 2 countries.


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## abroad

the real estate market/agents both in Aussie and NZ trip over themselves when an overseas buyer shows any interest. 

I downloaded a floorplan a couple of months ago of a renovated villa that has been extensively advertised in auckland, but the agent upped the anty and start to flog to attract overseas interest and sure enough, One bit the apple without due dilegence and paid an overinflated price (reason why it didn't sell to locals).

Buyer beware. Do your research and haggle, haggle, haggle in both countries!!!!!!! 
Better still, don't buy the minute you arrive (in either country) rent and find your feet. 

I returned from NSW about 4 weeks ago, Kiwi Hubby returned a fortnight ago. both of us were pleased to be returning to NZ and I even went as far as obtaining a kiwi licence upon my return! If anything made up my mind, it wasn't the 2 1/2 years already spent here, it was the 5 days I spent in Sydney that did it.

So what did I glean to compare during my recent trip? Well my NSW friends are looking forward (not) to an 18% increase in the cost of electricity. The state govt has removed subsidies for alternative power hardware purchases, shooting up the price of solar power products and the like. 

Food and wine is about the same although dairy products are still slightly higher in NZ than in aussie but if you are canny shopper like me you will buy your cheeses on special in NZ nd will be about the same.
Fuel and LPG for vehicles is still slightly inflated in NZ but diesel remains cheaper even with the road tax you pay at NZ post offices to run your ON ROAD diesel vehicles.
SKY TV (pay TV) is still more expensive in NZ than aussie and i was equally disappointed with it in Aussie as I am getting in NZ. Mind you we are seeing newer UK programmes on Prime (free to air in NZ) than on UK pay TV!.

Registering a vehicle and relicencing is still cheaper in NZ than NSW. Insurance, well most of NZ's policies are underwritten by IAG who is aussie owned, as you know natural disasters have rocked NZ and its safe to say policies will increase regardless of either Country.

I am disappointed by the seafood range/fish mongers in NZ shops considering its a seaside country. I am therefore planning a trip to Auckland fish markets to see how it scrubs up against Sydney's. Not expecting heaps of shops, just a better selection than at my ''local'' fish monger. 

Young drivers (15) are not the people having the majority of accidents. its the slightly older age of 19 ish that are with a car load of people/mates to egg them on (sounds familar eh!) and that again is the same in both countries. 

If you fly em*rates as part of your european business dealings, well they have removed the car allowance from business and first class travel to and fro airports between Aussie and NZ. I am scraping the bottom of the barrel for comparisons as you can probably guess, but if you are used to such a service, it won't be there now from this end to Aussie. both Emirates and air NZ have excellent business class lounges and comfort in their aeroplanes though!

air NZ has the monopoly on the run from Auckland to Perth. If you want to fly anyone else, you have to jump ship between ports, so to speak. That annoys me having relos in Perth and being held to ransome for cattle class fare between countries.

There is one more thing, one really more important thing. THIS (yes I mean to shout) was the first week that NZ news reported all was not well in the land of Aussie.
Far out, hallauya, finally the media have caught up with the rest of us Aussie expats to tell Kiwis that all is not well over the ditch!!!!!!!

Off for a Kiwi wine to celebrate! Cheers. xox


----------



## abroad

hang on, I did think of a down side to living in NZ, I have never seen moth balls for the linen cupboard for sale here.... I just bought 4 packs back in NSW.:clap2:

On the up side, my UK born parents (who also now live here) my new ''in laws" (found via adoption methods) and my family also enjoyed Quality Street tins for Christmas at our local Pommie food shop...


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## abroad

Darla.R said:


> I've never had a need to use mothballs in either country so can't tell you where to find them, Bunnings perhaps?
> 
> 
> haven't seen them at all in NZ but will try Mitre 10 mega at some stage...
> 
> a long time ago my MIL had a silverfish type moth infestation in her carpet and underneath the spare beds. Whilst I am fairly certain it was due to a bit of senile decline in the cleaniness dept, having a few moth balls in the airing cupboard and the like stops any liklihood of it happening in my home, and I like them more than spraying fly spray about the place.


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## abroad

abroad said:


> Young drivers (15) are not the people having the majority of accidents. its the slightly older age of 19 ish that are with a car load of people/mates to egg them on (sounds familar eh!) and that again is the same in both countries.


I see in the front headline in the Herald today (re Maori King's son involved in accident) that they are now stating the 15 - 17 age bracket is the highest for car accidents... Hmmm, bit different to a couple of months ago where it was claimed they weren't...


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## anski

abroad;
haven't seen them at all in NZ but will try Mitre 10 mega at some stage...
a long time ago my MIL had a silverfish type moth infestation in her carpet and underneath the spare beds. Whilst I am fairly certain it was due to a bit of senile decline in the cleaniness dept said:


> Moth balls smell YUK. Over the years I have bought cedar balls (the cedar odour repel moths) & recently I bought Lavender fragrance moth devices that hang on rails in wardrobe.
> You should be able to find some sort of Moth deterrents in Pak n Save, New World, The Warehouse, Mitre 10,
> 
> Yes Aussie must be getting costly my daughter (Canberra) keeps asking me for help with her bills especially electricity & I know she is really struggling. My son (Brisbane) complains his business is the quietest it's been in over 20 years.
> 
> Anski


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## abroad

anski said:


> Yes Aussie must be getting costly my daughter (Canberra) keeps asking me for help with her bills especially electricity & I know she is really struggling. My son (Brisbane) complains his business is the quietest it's been in over 20 years.
> 
> Anski


Yep I agree and its totally flying in the face of what up until last week Kiwis were being told about the Country and lifestyle... compared to what was happening in NZ.

I think for anyone who is considering moving to either of these Countries its important to know there is good and bad in both, economics, employment, Govts, health and education, justice systems etc just to name a few. 

I sincerely hope that i have been able to offer a balanced perspective with real time comparatives. 

Immigrating is what the person will make of it, its certainly not easy and its never how you think its going to be. I wish anyone about to undertake the task all the very best!


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## Song_Si

abroad said:


> I see in the front headline in the Herald today (re Maori King's son involved in accident) that they are now stating the 15 - 17 age bracket is the highest for car accidents... Hmmm, bit different to a couple of months ago where it was claimed they weren't...


not age groups in these stats, just overall figures; still too high of course but an improvement:

*NZ Herald, 4 June 2011*
Until 48 hours ago, 120 people had died on our roads this year. This time last year, 160 people had perished.

The road toll so far this year is at a 31-year low. It is a monumental improvement. Why? Is the price of fuel keeping people off the roads? That might have something to do it - police report fewer crashes in general compared with recent years.

and by comparison with nearly 40 years ago when there were a lot less vehicles on the road

The worst year for road deaths was 1973, when 843 people died


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## Gimme5

abroad said:


> I see in the front headline in the Herald today (re Maori King's son involved in accident) that they are now stating the 15 - 17 age bracket is the highest for car accidents... Hmmm, bit different to a couple of months ago where it was claimed they weren't...


Be confused no more. Here's the quote from NZ Herald:-

"Road crashes are the single biggest killer of 15- to 19-year-old New Zealanders, and our teen crash rates are among the worst in the developed world - that's a situation no one should accept," said the agency's national manager of road user behaviour, Michael Cummins.

New Zealand has the highest road death rate in the OECD for 15- to 17-year-olds, and the fourth highest road death rate for 18- to 20-year-olds."

Comparison were being made with the "developed world" and "OECD", NOT across age groups within NZ.


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## abroad

Ok, let's get my head around this, in what other countries can 15 year olds drive? (ie who else are they comparing 15 yo's to?)

Are they referring only to 15 yo drivers or do those herald figures include passengers as well?

My original understanding is that the 15 yo's driver group were far safer drivers than the 19 yo driver group.....


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## anski

Song_Si said:


> not age groups in these stats, just overall figures; still too high of course but an improvement:
> 
> *NZ Herald, 4 June 2011*
> Until 48 hours ago, 120 people had died on our roads this year. This time last year, 160 people had perished.
> 
> The road toll so far this year is at a 31-year low. It is a monumental improvement. Why? Is the price of fuel keeping people off the roads? That might have something to do it - police report fewer crashes in general compared with recent years.
> 
> and by comparison with nearly 40 years ago when there were a lot less vehicles on the road
> 
> The worst year for road deaths was 1973, when 843 people died


843! that is terrible, I had no idea it was that bad. I feel sorry for all those families that lost loved ones.

I think the roads in NZ are atrocious in places, if you drive Auckland to Wellington there is no major highway. 

One of the reasons I never really enjoyed going for drives was maybe because I am used to the wonderful roads in Europe, even though they do cost.
Young people are reckless the whole world over. I think insurance companies in many countries penalise drivers under 25,especially males because of their hormones.
Road safety should be a subject taught in schools and maybe an advanced drivers course should be a mandatory step towards gaining your drivers licence.

I was taught by a race car driver & part of my driving lessons were the way a car responds to emergency braking & skids in wet weather. 
So many people do not take the precaution of switching their headlights on or slowing down. Wet roads are especially dangerous, particularly after prolonged dry spells because of the build up of oil on roads.

However I remember being scared out of my wits being driven around Thailand & Sri Lanka in cars without seatbelts & seats that were not retrained. When my driver in Sri Lanka braked to avoid a cow I nearly went through the windscreen because of lack of seat belt & seat lock. Scary!

Anski


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## anski

*King's son in boyracer crash By Yvonne Tahana*

This is the story that was referred to by others & never mind if was the King's son it is more important to realise he is somebody's son & every day that young or old people drive with abandon they put their lives of their passenger's & other innocent motorists & pedestrians at risk.
Not to mention the countless people who get behind the wheel intoxicated or on drugs, or disqualified for very good reasons & these include older people too!

I don't know what the answer is, maybe as a punishment they should be made to provide long term after care for others who suffer disabilities as a result of road accidents. Maybe seeing the long term suffering these accident victims experience every day might instil some sense of responsibility for driving a car sensibly in the future.

Sadly these hoons often pack friends into the cars, whose lives are put at risk because of some idiot behind the wheel.

Anski


Police have laid charges after the Maori King's younger son was involved in a boyracer crash from which witnesses say he was lucky to escape alive.

Residents who saw the wrecked Mitsubishi Lancer say they can't believe 16-year-old Korotangi Paki - who was yesterday identified by one of the King's representatives as the driver - survived.

The crash happened on a 50km/h stretch of Riverview Rd, which runs alongside the western bank of the Waikato River, parallel to State Highway 1.

One resident who called emergency services said he was watching television when he heard heavy engine noises about 9pm on Saturday.

"We heard the car come down and there was high revving - I mean really, really high revving.

"It was heading south, then all of a sudden we heard the tyres screeching and then bang."

The resident said he expected to find dead bodies. Five metres of skidmarks showed the path the car took before the driver's side slammed into the power pole.


He saw two "young boys" who had extricated themselves from the wreck.

"We went outside and the car was wrapped around the power pole. All I could think of was that they were very, very lucky. They could have ended up in the river."

Waikato police spokesman Andrew McAlley would not confirm the driver's identity, but said a car had been seized and a teenager had been arrested on charges including driving with sustained loss of traction and dangerous driving.

He had been referred to Youth Aid.

"I can confirm that a 16-year-old has been arrested on boyracer charges," Mr McAlley said. "He is thought to have been doing burnouts."

One of the King's spokesmen, Rahui Papa, confirmed to the Herald that Korotangi was driving the vehicle.

"He's doing well. He's alive and that's our main focus. There's some shock but he's not broken.

"When I see him, he's going to get a big clip on his ears."

Mr Papa would not be drawn on how the family were dealing with the teenager and the charges.

The resident said police turned up within two or three minutes of the crash but Korotangi's extended family got there faster.

"The word was out within 30 seconds - all the people who are connected to the Maori King were there."

The accident did not surprise him, as Riverview Rd's speed limit was constantly broken by "hoons" who used it as a high-speed motorway, he said.

Work to stabilise the power pole was not finished yesterday.

Residents said the lines were hanging so low on Saturday night that trucks could not pass under them.

King Tuheitia and his wife, Te Atawhai Paki, were guests yesterday at Destiny Church's annual conference at its Mt Wellington headquarters.

Mr Papa said other tribal members found out about the accident as they travelled from Huntly in a bus yesterday morning to support the King.

Korotangi is a student at Huntly's Te Wharekura o Rakaumanga, New Zealand's largest kura kaupapa Maori school, and is the middle of the King's three children.

The accident happened about 5km from where a 33-year-old Hamilton mother died after her BMW crossed the centre line on Sunday last week.

Yesterday, the Transport Agency started a campaign to improve the poor road safety record of teenage drivers.

"Road crashes are the single biggest killer of 15- to 19-year-old New Zealanders, and our teen crash rates are among the worst in the developed world - that's a situation no one should accept," said the agency's national manager of road user behaviour, Michael Cummins.

New Zealand has the highest road death rate in the OECD for 15- to 17-year-olds, and the fourth highest road death rate for 18- to 20-year-olds.

The campaign will provide advice and free tools via a website - A toolkit for parents of teen drivers | NZTA - aimed at helping parents to stay actively involved in teens' driving.

Research shows youth drivers are most at risk of having a serious crash in the first six to 12 months of driving solo on a restricted licence.

Each year for the past five years, about 1300 crashes resulting in injury or death have involved teen drivers on restricted licences.

- Additional reporting: NZPA

By Yvonne Tahana | Email Yvonne
King's son in boyracer crash - National - NZ Herald News


----------



## topcat83

anski said:


> 843! that is terrible, I had no idea it was that bad. I feel sorry for all those families that lost loved ones.
> 
> I think the roads in NZ are atrocious in places, if you drive Auckland to Wellington there is no major highway.
> 
> One of the reasons I never really enjoyed going for drives was maybe because I am used to the wonderful roads in Europe, even though they do cost.
> Young people are reckless the whole world over. I think insurance companies in many countries penalise drivers under 25,especially males because of their hormones.
> Road safety should be a subject taught in schools and maybe an advanced drivers course should be a mandatory step towards gaining your drivers licence.
> 
> I was taught by a race car driver & part of my driving lessons were the way a car responds to emergency braking & skids in wet weather.
> So many people do not take the precaution of switching their headlights on or slowing down. Wet roads are especially dangerous, particularly after prolonged dry spells because of the build up of oil on roads.
> 
> However I remember being scared out of my wits being driven around Thailand & Sri Lanka in cars without seatbelts & seats that were not retrained. When my driver in Sri Lanka braked to avoid a cow I nearly went through the windscreen because of lack of seat belt & seat lock. Scary!
> 
> Anski


Will have to diasagree with you on this one, Anski!  One of the things I love about NZ is that there are very few dual carriageway-type highways except in the cities. It makes driving a real pleasure to me - but that could be because we're usually in an open-topped sports car or a motor bike.

However, I do soooo agree with you on NZ road safety teaching. I made sure both my boys took their driving lessons and tests in the UK, because the test is much more stringent. In the UK most new drivers are on average older, and are taught by competent driving instructors now, and not by Mum or Dad sitting next to them and passing on their bad habits. Probably because of the cost of car insurance; that's something else that's incredibly stupid over here. A 15 year old (16 soon) can get behind the wheel of an uninsured car and is still legal! Now, there's a happy medium somewhere - reasonably priced compulsory insurance and more stringent driving tests would be good.


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## toebeenz

*NZ accident rate....?*



abroad said:


> I see in the front headline in the Herald today (re Maori King's son involved in accident) that they are now stating the 15 - 17 age bracket is the highest for car accidents... Hmmm, bit different to a couple of months ago where it was claimed they weren't...


It doesn't matter what age bracket the the fatalities and serious injuries are in the sad fact is that they are a continual occurance. Young NZ drivers are out of control due to a lack of police attention to the problem. The government has occasionally announced that they were going to clamp down on offenders but, as usual, it was just talk.

A big part of the problem is modified exhaust systems which are designed purely to make more noise. Young drivers, on acquiring their first car, get a 'sports' exhaust fitted and drive everywhere at full throttle. Filled with bravado they treat the roads as their own private race track and mayhem is the result. Other 'home' modifications like lowering the suspension have contributed to the appalling death toll by making cars unroadworthy. 

This problem could be largely solved by banning modifications to the original vehicle specification, including 'sports' exhaust systems, and confiscating vehicles that fail to conform. Meanwhile the people of NZ have to put up with excessive noise, dangerous driving and the resultant fatalities. An indication of the lack of government responsibility (Labour and National alike) is the fact that, in spite of brave talk about lowering carbon emissions, there is no emissions testing on motor vehicles! So much for the mythical 'clean, green image'!


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## Song_Si

toebeenz said:


> It doesn't matter what age bracket the the fatalities and serious injuries are in the sad fact is that they are a continual occurance. Young NZ drivers are out of control due to a lack of police attention to the problem. The government has occasionally announced that they were going to clamp down on offenders but, as usual, it was just talk.


I know this is the dedicated NZ-bashing thread . . . but what country does not have similar problems? 

Young men . . . cars or motorcycles?


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## YoungsSpecialLondon

Song Si, 

Wherever there are cars, there will be irresponsible drivers, I reckon. Plus, the most hair-raising driving I ever saw was certainly not in NZ but in Bangkok. All the same, by OECD standards there tends to be a high accident rate in NZ. Plus, most of the contributors to this forum are from the UK, where the road accident rate is the lowest in the EU. It tends to bring the issue into stark relief.

My two cents? 1. Make the driving test tougher. I don't buy all this stuff about 15-year olds not being able to drive. They can if they're good enough, and the same applies to everyone.


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## YoungsSpecialLondon

...and 2) deal with the boy racers. NO idea how to deal with that one mind... but I don't buy this stuff about teenagers' brains being wired a certain way. Most teens don't arse around in cars, after all.


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## Song_Si

just a wild stab in the dark, but UK/NZ have very similar land areas, one has over 60 million people, the other 4 million. 
More police, less open spaces as contributors?
I used to holiday a couple of weeks most years in the South Island, motorbike down West Coast then across to Chch and on to Tekapo area and could ride for miles/kms without seeing a single vehicle, temptation always there to speed with little chance of police.
And - car ownership - this 2007 report lists NZ as third-highest in the world percentage wise (82%) after USA and Saudi Arabia.


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## anski

Song_Si said:


> just a wild stab in the dark, but UK/NZ have very similar land areas, one has over 60 million people, the other 4 million.
> More police, less open spaces as contributors?
> I used to holiday a couple of weeks most years in the South Island, motorbike down West Coast then across to Chch and on to Tekapo area and could ride for miles/kms without seeing a single vehicle, temptation always there to speed with little chance of police.
> And - car ownership - this 2007 report lists NZ as third-highest in the world percentage wise (82%) after USA and Saudi Arabia.


Yes I agree the South Island has very deserted roads, & you can drive almost all day without seeing a car. Our American friends spent 4 months driving almost every inch of both islands & he remarked afterwards that he could not take his eyes off the road because in many places the speed advisory signs were in total conflict with the roads. I have seen signs with 100km speed limits on country roads with sharp bends now the average experienced sensible driver would know you could not negotiate a bend at that speed but put a young or inexperienced driver behind the wheel & they do not make allowances. Hurting not only themselves but there passengers & oncoming vehicles.

On our way to meet a cruise on the Milford Sound very early one misty morning we saw a crumpled car, an ambulance & a fatality. It took the edge off our day I can tell you.

A few years ago driving in rural areas of France my son pointed out the numerous black metal life size images of human shapes each one indicating where someone had lost their life on the road, very sobering.

In the NZ countryside I have seen the numerous little white crosses placed near the roadside & usually before & after bends. 

Yes cars are cheap in NZ & so is the cost of getting a drivers licence. I remember our Danish exchange student telling us it was so expensive to do the same in Denmark. 
Also the boy racers modify cars & I doubt it many are safe. Even with WOF checks every 6 months many cars are driven without being either registered or insured. The penalty's are merely a fine & these go unpaid & there are millions of $ of unpaid fines. I believe the Police have recently been crushing the cars of boy racers for serious offences.
Some of the cars I have seen driving along at night have blue strip lights fitted on various parts of the car etc & in other countries these modifications would not be allowed.


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## Darla.R

It's a combination of a number of factors and there isn't one simple solution to it, such as raising the driving age or making kids take out insurance on their cars. 

I agree with Anski, roads in New Zealand are atrocious in places and the routes between major towns and cities are appalling. I'm an experienced driver and I hated them - I've never had to drive so defensively in all my life. 

This isn't just a matter of opinion either, you've only got to look at the KiwiRap survey to see that not a single road over 5k long got rated 5 stars for safety.

Only 4% of roads got four stars

http://www.aucklandtrains.co.nz/2010/06/24/how-safe-are-our-highways/



> KiwiRAP provides star ratings for 89 percent of New Zealand’s state highway network, covering 10,002kms of rural highways with speed limits of 80km/h or more.
> 
> KiwiRAP also shows that 28 percent of all vehicle kilometres travelled by our vehicles occurs on our four star roads, 40 percent on our three star roads, and 33 percent on our two star roads.
> 
> Of the 10,002-kilometres assessed: 39% rated 2 stars, 56% rated 3 stars, 5% rated 4stars.


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## Song_Si

ha ha we need a roading forum; back to my comparison re areas and populations, an ongoing problem with NZ roads is always funding; simply - same area as UK but 7% of the population, not enough taxpayers!

anyway, this is a positive news item

*Record zero holiday road toll*

The Queen's Birthday holiday road toll stands at zero for the first time since records began.

No-one had died on the roads by 6am, the end of the official holiday period.

New Zealand's top road cop had "everything crossed" last night for the first zero holiday road toll.

Police roading national manager Superintendent Paula Rose said a lower speeding tolerance, more police on the roads and well-behaved drivers all contributed to one of the safest long weekends in history.

********

may send this to Thai police - they were happy to keep April's Songkran/New Year road toll under 300! and they did, down from 361 last year for one week.

and one more stat - in Thailand road deaths officially about 16,000 last year but that's just the ones who die at the scene. Hospital deaths not counted.


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## Song_Si

reference earlier to the Maori King; choose my words carefully here, and leave it to an article from today's news in terms of him being 'king'. FYI Huntly a small town outside Hamilton, pop approx 7000. 

*Tuheitia just 'King of Huntly'*
CHRIS GARDNER

Maori King Tuheitia has been accused of being a pretender in a claim submitted to the Waitangi Tribunal, with a Northland iwi leader saying he's better known as "King of Huntly".

David Rankin, a leader of the Ngapuhi tribe, is challenging the right of the king head of the Tainui tribe to use the title "Maori King" because he is not the king of all Maori.

The Kingitanga was set up in the 1850s to present a united front to British encroachment but involves largely only central North Island tribes, with the king's base in the heart of Tainui's land.

"When he pretends to be our king, then he needs to show his mandate for that or else change his title," Mr Rankin said.

"This is not about what Tuheita wants to call himself. That's his problem. And as far as the Government is concerned, they have no right to use the term 'Maori King'. Tuheitia could be called the King of Huntly perhaps. I could live with that."

No one from Tainui was available for comment this morning.

Government and Crown agencies compounded the issue, Mr Rankin said, with their use of the title, violating Article Two of the Treaty of Waitangi which guarantees Crown protection for each Maori tribe's sovereignty.

"Government ministers are always calling him the Maori King ... they don't call the King of Tonga the King of Polynesia," Mr Rankin said. "The Government is meant to protect all our sovereign rights. How can the sovereignty of Ngapuhi be protected, if the leader of another tribe is said to be our king? This is clearly a violation of our tino rangatiratanga."

According to Mr Rankin, Ngapuhi had always opposed Kingitanga (the King Movement) from which the King Country takes its name after a bowler hat was thrown onto a North Island map to denote the extent of the kingdom. .

"Tuheitia is not a traditional Maori leader at all. He hasn't even got the Reo (Maori language)]. He is someone who pretends to be the King of Maori, which we find offensive." Mr Rankin said other tribes also found the title offensive.

- Waikato Times


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## Gimme5

I suppose the NZ Herald article sums it up pretty well. Thanks for posting it.


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## inhamilton

Gimme5 said:


> I suppose the NZ Herald article sums it up pretty well. Thanks for posting it.


Yes, it sums it up for you, and the people interviewed in the article, perhaps. But not necessarily for everyone.


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## inhamilton

Just for some balance to the article above, I'll just offer the following as a Kiwi who has travelled around a fair bit, even though I am not an expat.

It is interesting that the article quoted above regarding Kiwis in Oz said the following :
All those spoken to were at pains not to be critical of New Zealand, saying they still loved their country

But immediately prior to that went on how one of the interviewees left for Oz because of a so-called bludger mentality in NZ. Then I ask myself how this can be when there is very little difference between the unemployment rates of the 2 countries, and both are way below the OECD average of 9% unemployment. If NZ has a bludger mentality then surely Australia and virtually every other country has one too.

NZers moving overseas is nothing new. We are one of the most travelled peoples in the world. That in itself must say something about our standard of living, when we can afford to do as such. I remember a documentary on TV back in the early 80'd made by an Australian TV show. It had images of bales of straw rolling down streets like in some ghost town in a Western. So what has happened since then? NZ's population has gone from 3 mil to 4.5 mil, our standard of living has increased, and in my home town there are huge shopping complexes going up. We also have a long line of people from Britain, Sth Africa and China plus other countries with skills and/or money wanting to get in. Any kiwis that do decide to leave and try a different lifestyle, or whatever, are replaced by equally qualified, if not moreso qualified immigrants.

Perhaps some people might see that as a biased assessment, and trying too hard to put a positive spin, being a kiwi. But I think it's accurate. When it all boils down to it, and put in a nutshell, and to answer the original question, how can Auckland be rated the 4th best city in the world in an independent international quality of living survey (Mercers of the UK Mercer 2010 Quality of Living survey highlights) if you think that 'Yes .. NZ really is that bad?'.


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## anski

inhamilton said:


> Just for some balance to the article above, I'll just offer the following as a Kiwi who has travelled around a fair bit, even though I am not an expat.
> 
> It is interesting that the article quoted above regarding Kiwis in Oz said the following :
> All those spoken to were at pains not to be critical of New Zealand, saying they still loved their country
> 
> But immediately prior to that went on how one of the interviewees left for Oz because of a so-called bludger mentality in NZ. Then I ask myself how this can be when there is very little difference between the unemployment rates of the 2 countries, and both are way below the OECD average of 9% unemployment. If NZ has a bludger mentality then surely Australia and virtually every other country has one too.
> 
> NZers moving overseas is nothing new. We are one of the most travelled peoples in the world. That in itself must say something about our standard of living, when we can afford to do as such. I remember a documentary on TV back in the early 80'd made by an Australian TV show. It had images of bales of straw rolling down streets like in some ghost town in a Western. So what has happened since then? NZ's population has gone from 3 mil to 4.5 mil, our standard of living has increased, and in my home town there are huge shopping complexes going up. We also have a long line of people from Britain, Sth Africa and China plus other countries with skills and/or money wanting to get in. Any kiwis that do decide to leave and try a different lifestyle, or whatever, are replaced by equally qualified, if not moreso qualified immigrants.
> 
> Perhaps some people might see that as a biased assessment, and trying too hard to put a positive spin, being a kiwi. But I think it's accurate. When it all boils down to it, and put in a nutshell, and to answer the original question, how can Auckland be rated the 4th best city in the world in an independent international quality of living survey (Mercers of the UK Mercer 2010 Quality of Living survey highlights) if you think that 'Yes .. NZ really is that bad?'.


Well said.

As for me, an Aussie I moved to New Zealand 10 years ago because I felt Sydney had changed & I had not. My first impression of NZ was that in many ways it was like Sydney was in the 60's & I mean that in a nice way. I prefer the way of life in NZ to Australia today, the pace is slower, people are more willing to help, people trust you, there is less traffic, pollution, stress, & more open space in populated areas.
I am returning after 2 years in Europe which I have enjoyed immensely & will always love certain parts of Europe for it's culture & customs but I am looking forward to the differences on offer in New Zealand.


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## Gimme5

inhamilton said:


> Yes, it sums it up for you, and the people interviewed in the article, perhaps. But not necessarily for everyone.


Of course not. People are entitled to hold different views and opinions.


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## Sylvester58

mt3 said:


> ...is far to expensive, There is real poverty here. Do not buy a house you are paying through the nose for what is basicaly an expensive shed. Be warned if you still feel the need to purchase property the Kiwi's love to make alterations internal and external without the required consents resulting in an unsuspecting buyer on trying to sell said property with huge fee's trying to get flat plans altered so it can be sold major stress!! make sure you obtain a lim report, a building report,
> and make sure all alterations have the required consents and employ Legal advice that can be trusted. goes for the real estate side to but they have cleaned up there act a bit.
> Sure its pretty here, But there is no real transport infastructure, you have to drive basically everywhere or fly more expense.there are also major social problems...


Read a lot of stuff about NZ, Chch, rehab plan and so on since the moment I receive the offer from the recruiter to have a job there, as civil engineer. Start looking for a house because don't know if the employer will take care about this or I'll be on my own in this matter (in Sri Lanka the company took care and paid accommodation, same in Israel and Libya) and start to be a little worried about all the details to cover, the quality of houses, the frugal information can get, the prices versus the conditions offered, and all of that without having any clue regarding the norms and standards applied in construction, (btw, just read in starcanterburry the articles related to CTV, we had such events in march 1977 when several buildings collapsed, and immediately all standards, norms and general thinking was totally changed, at national level), the way your designers think the protection measures against earthquakes for small houses (1-2 levels). Now, after all I've said, (and because my feet are itching all the time  and I'm totally decided to relocate), do you think you could find things from your experience (and experiences) to make my picture more accurate and help me take decisions when the moment will be ? (and not only housing, interested also in second hand car, buying groceries, walking around, meeting decent and nice people, seeing breathtaking views, and so on)...
...and sorry if I was rude asking you so many, without a polite "Hello" in the beginning :sorry:


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## anski

Sylvester58 said:


> Now, after all I've said, (and because my feet are itching all the time  and I'm totally decided to relocate), do you think you could find things from your experience (and experiences) to make my picture more accurate and help me take decisions when the moment will be ? (and not only housing, interested also in second hand car, buying groceries, walking around, meeting decent and nice people, seeing breathtaking views, and so on)...
> ...and sorry if I was rude asking you so many, without a polite "Hello" in the beginning :sorry:


Hi,

Welcome to the forum.
I imagine you want to know about Christchurch? Is that where you job offer is?

Trademe http://trademe.co.nz/property is the best for looking for places to stay, whether you want share accommodation at first or if you want to rent or buy a place. 2nd hand cars are cheap in NZ because of the Japanese Imports. We bought 2 European cars from Trademe http://trademe.co.nz/cars for under $10,000 when we returned to NZ last September. 

If you are working in Christchurch, find out the area you are going to be working then get a Google map & look for surrounding areas for places to live. You can see what the street view is like & ask others in Christchurch for advice on the area.
I live in Auckland so cannot advise you on Christchurch.

For ideas on prices of groceries take a look at http://shop.countdown.co.nz/ but Pak n Save is cheaper but you cannot see it online. I found buying vegetables & fruit from farm stall close to Christchurch was so much cheaper & fresher than supermarkets.

Also remember many old people living on a pension only get $500 a week combined & many manage quite well. Depends on your lifestyle how much you need.


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## Sylvester58

Marianne2010 said:


> Ask everybody about his/her home country... there is always something they don't like... And if they are bold enough to make the move to another country or even other countries they will always compare what they gain with what they gave up. It's human nature.
> Some things I don't like in France. Some I liked in NZ or USA or Canada or any other country I visited/stayed in/worked in. Even if you try to fit in, you will always think of the past... and how you dreamt of a future that cannot be filled by the reality. It's because that's it: a dream. A dream of escaping from what you live actually, a dream of a better life for you and your kids.
> As I wrote before, nobody can tell you how you will like or not a country. And as countries are not where you live, because you live in a city, a neighborhood, and every one is different from the other in terms of climate, facilities, schools, crime rate, asking generally if "NZ is bad" "Canada is good" "Could I fit in France" has no meaning whatsoever. The answers either. Whatever the reasons you want to leave a country for another, don't investigate on the net... go there. You are not living in a computer!


Good mornin' Marianne, you cannot imagine how truthful I found what you've said, and that was the reason when I decided to move to Chch, NZ. The most difficult part was to convince my wife to do this step (tried lots of years ago when I worked in Israel, and we were much younger, and gloriously failed, so I was terrified I will fail again, but the general situation here, in Bucharest, helped me a lot to convince her). It's a huge step to start your life from scrap, like you're born again and have to learn to walk (think about a little baby !), to talk, to interact, and only after then the basic understanding will begin... So it's really not so easy... But my inner belief (and I experienced it all over the places I lived) is that: there will always be more people ready to help you and to interact and communicate with you than the others (dry woods are coming from the trees, but the forest will always be much bigger than some isolated mutants).
And yes, even if I'm reading hours and hours everyday lots of things related to NZ, the reality I will smell, touch, hear and taste when the airplane exits will open will be the important one, that will be the real life, everything else is only "what if".
And again, perfectly true, two different people, living at 15 km away one from each other, city center and suburbs, could have different perceptions and hate/love the same country because of those perceptions, separated by 15 km. Could sound like a joke, but it's real, I experimented in Tripoli, on two different people, living like I said.
But anyway, computer helps... even to say "Hy" to you... :wave:


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## agurkas

Darla.R said:


> It's a combination of a number of factors and there isn't one simple solution to it, such as raising the driving age or making kids take out insurance on their cars.
> 
> I agree with Anski, roads in New Zealand are atrocious in places and the routes between major towns and cities are appalling. I'm an experienced driver and I hated them - I've never had to drive so defensively in all my life.
> 
> This isn't just a matter of opinion either, you've only got to look at the KiwiRap survey to see that not a single road over 5k long got rated 5 stars for safety.
> 
> Only 4% of roads got four stars


With all due respect, and this comes from avid driver and auto sports competitor, I drove over 2000KM from Auckland down to Queenstown last November and found NZ roads incredibly good. I'd say only Germany or Switzerland have better, but they also have much larger tax base. I found Kiwis to be very courteous drivers with maybe a handful I saw act bit stupid (looked like teens in their poorly modified Subarus).

I clearly remember coming back home to Boston (US) and immediately seeing two drivers yelling at each other at a stop sign and then myself hitting about a hundred potholes and cracks on a 5 mile ride home.

It has been almost a year and I still dream about all the twisty mountain switchbacks  Next time I am coming over, I am brining one of my "toys" so I can properly enjoy the roads.


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## suslik

Things I've noticed about New Zealand:

* *green image* goes only as far as recycling of domestic food packaging (multi-colored bins that get picked up by the council each fortnight, you know, one for plastic, one for glass, one for paper) and all sorts of solar panels on new expensive housing. When it comes to grass-level sustainability though, New Zealand doesn't do very well in my view. Collecting of rainwater (or using water sparingly in general), use of low-emission high-efficiency appliances, getting cars serviced so they don't leak oil, directing spills to where they don't enter waterways, insulation in houses - these are just some examples where I look at New Zealand and think: "Wtf?" The only reason New Zealand can bandy around that green image is, I think, because it is so sparsely populated and there is enough landmass to offset the damage. 

* there is a lot of talk about the *high cost of living*, but to a point where I feel I want to vomit each time I hear it mentioned. For one, New Zealand has a LOT of unskilled jobs. Expecting a wage that's decent enough to buy a decent house in a decent area... whilst being employed in a job where a person can be trained up in a matter of weeks is silly. I know people who own their homes whilst working in unskilled positions (without inheriting anything) - it involves good budgeting and compromises and no yearly holidays to Fiji. And if someone really wants to earn more and live in a flash house, they can go study engineering. Just saying. It is NOT THAT BAD! 

* *crime is sensationalized* to a point where case specifics get repeated in national news for days on end, so I can understand if someone has a perception there is a lot of crime in New Zealand. There isn't. There is a lot of incarcerated people, yes, but comparatively little crime. (Depends who you're comparing it to, yes, but the point still stands.)

* it struck me when I first came on my working holiday that Kiwis *gripe and bicker as a national pastime*. I learned quickly, though, that: one: a lot of it doesn't actually bother them, they just like a good moan every once in a while. British heritage maybe?  And two: it isn't as bad as they make it out. So now when I hear the news on the radio, I filter it my head just as I filter when my neighbor goes on about the government.

* It amazes me to this day how much good quality, cheap stuff is available in *second hand stores* and occasionally on TradeMe, a Kiwi Craigslist. Especially in Christchurch region when it comes to second-hand building materials. I could literally build a house, no, a street full of houses, with that stuff (if I knew how to build a house). It is incredible. 

* I hear people tell how in Europe, this is done better and that is done better, and I think: yes, it is. On the other hand, there are a lot of things really screwed up in Europe as well, just like there are here. For me the tradeoff is working out quite well, because I am outdoorsy and prefer a sparsely populated scenic high country to _Autobahn_ and pavement any time. For someone who spends more time indoors and wants... well, something other than I do, I can see how the tradeoff might not be that enjoyable. But that's people wanting different things, which is only natural.


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## agurkas

Suslik,

I think your observations are spot on. Though my judgment is based on traveling both islands over two weeks and having been watching NZ TV for almost a year. 

Yeah... I saw those Kiwi "gangs". Latin Kings, Gangster Discipline, MS13, etc. in the rest of the world makes those "gangs" look like bunch of toddlers.

I think you have also hit on the pattern I see here on the forum. Many people try to move to NZ and do low(er) skilled jobs expecting to live comfortably. Then they get pissed off, because in reality that does not work in any country, and leave. Nowhere in the world you can live comfortably doing many of those jobs, that is why people work 2-3 jobs just to make end meet. Such is life. Don't blame whole country for it.

And BTW, IKEA is coming to NZ, so that should have interesting effect on some of the household goods and furniture prices.


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## bdl123

Sorry guys I don't agree on the 'cost of living' being exaggerated. I live in Wellington after relocating from the UK...in the UK my husband earned £80k GBP per annum. His new job in NZ is actually more skilled (but in the same area of electricity control) but his wage is drastically reduced to $90k NZD per annum. The house we rent is on par with our property in UK (which we are also currently renting out) but the NZ house costs twice as much to rent than the amount we are receiving in rent for our UK property. In the UK I never really had to look at the cost of things but I have to be fully aware in NZ. In the UK during the cold winter months (much coldwr and longer than in NZ) we had the central heating on daily...I made the same mistake here in our first winter and ended up with a monthly fuel bill of over $1100....an expensive lesson. The cost of day to day living is far higher in NZ than UK but the 'bargains' are out there...it's just less convenient than in UK as in I now need to shop in numerous different places to get weekly shopping whereas in UK it's all in one place (the supermarket)
I am, believe it it not, not actually complaining about this...even with my British heritage...as I would prefer to live in a cleaner & safer country so, for me the advantages out way the disadvantages.

Sent from my iPhone using ExpatForum


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## agurkas

On the subject of cost of food. For those of us in US, quality of food I came across in NZ was more on par of what we buy in Whole Foods or other higher-end grocery stores.

Here are some examples:
Meats: how many feedlots are in NZ (here is a hint - NONE)? So don't be surprised beef or pork is that much more expensive. Compare it to free-range in US and then tell me the price is much hire (it is not, it is the same or lower). 1kg of mince (ground beef) at Whole Foods is equivalent of ~$15NZD.
Vegetables and fruit: again, methods used in NZ actually either would qualify for USDA organic or local small farm standards. When you compare, those are actually cheaper in NZ.
Poultry and eggs: you would get locked up in NZ for animal cruelty, if you raised chickens like we do in US. Eggs I ate in NZ had so much flavor!

No wonder Kiwis live longer and look so much healthier.


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## Leighr

bdl123 said:


> Sorry guys I don't agree on the 'cost of living' being exaggerated. I live in Wellington after relocating from the UK...in the UK my husband earned £80k GBP per annum. His new job in NZ is actually more skilled (but in the same area of electricity control) but his wage is drastically reduced to $90k NZD per annum. The house we rent is on par with our property in UK (which we are also currently renting out) but the NZ house costs twice as much to rent than the amount we are receiving in rent for our UK property. In the UK I never really had to look at the cost of things but I have to be fully aware in NZ. In the UK during the cold winter months (much coldwr and longer than in NZ) we had the central heating on daily...I made the same mistake here in our first winter and ended up with a monthly fuel bill of over $1100....an expensive lesson. The cost of day to day living is far higher in NZ than UK but the 'bargains' are out there...it's just less convenient than in UK as in I now need to shop in numerous different places to get weekly shopping whereas in UK it's all in one place (the supermarket)
> I am, believe it it not, not actually complaining about this...even with my British heritage...as I would prefer to live in a cleaner & safer country so, for me the advantages out way the disadvantages.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using ExpatForum


Fully agree with these comments.


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## kiwigser

bdl123 said:


> Sorry guys I don't agree on the 'cost of living' being exaggerated. I live in Wellington after relocating from the UK...in the UK my husband earned £80k GBP per annum. His new job in NZ is actually more skilled (but in the same area of electricity control) but his wage is drastically reduced to $90k NZD per annum.


Your husband was definitely one of the high earners in the UK, I believe the average UK salary to be in the thirties. You would really feel the pinch.


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## dawnclaremaddox

bdl123 said:


> Sorry guys I don't agree on the 'cost of living' being exaggerated. I live in Wellington after relocating from the UK...in the UK my husband earned £80k GBP per annum. His new job in NZ is actually more skilled (but in the same area of electricity control) but his wage is drastically reduced to $90k NZD per annum. The house we rent is on par with our property in UK (which we are also currently renting out) but the NZ house costs twice as much to rent than the amount we are receiving in rent for our UK property. In the UK I never really had to look at the cost of things but I have to be fully aware in NZ. In the UK during the cold winter months (much coldwr and longer than in NZ) we had the central heating on daily...I made the same mistake here in our first winter and ended up with a monthly fuel bill of over $1100....an expensive lesson. The cost of day to day living is far higher in NZ than UK but the 'bargains' are out there...it's just less convenient than in UK as in I now need to shop in numerous different places to get weekly shopping whereas in UK it's all in one place (the supermarket)
> I am, believe it it not, not actually complaining about this...even with my British heritage...as I would prefer to live in a cleaner & safer country so, for me the advantages out way the disadvantages.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using ExpatForum


Hi there, my other half is paid better here in NZ than he was in the UK. He never has been in a high salary as yours, but we have always managed even in the UK. My salary as unskilled has always been minimum wage and I am happy. 

Rent or buying depends on the house and area. We rented a room to get an idea what it was like to be in a villa in our desired area at the time, we changed our minds on what we started out wanting after 4 months, bought in a different area and a newer property. We have a woodburner in the lounge and underfloor heating in the bathrooms, we bought a couple of little fan heaters which we have used just a few times. I do have to travel 30km each way, a small price to pay and I am used to this as I was in the same situation in the UK. I also shop around, just the same as I did in the UK, so really, no difference. Car insurance is cheaper even after going up $40 this year. House and contents is a little bit more, but fuel is a bit cheaper. Refuse and recycling collection every week here, recycling was fornightly in the UK. Our verges here are cut much more regularly and the roads are better maintained than the UK also.

There are many, many more things to mention and not much to complain about, (if any!) we have been here just over a year now and still love it and we have just had a write up on our experiences here. 
Swap Sides to Taranaki New Zealand - Taranaki - Like No Other
Hope this is ok with the modifiers.


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## bdl123

dawnclaremaddox said:


> Hi there, my other half is paid better here in NZ than he was in the UK. He never has been in a high salary as yours, but we have always managed even in the UK. My salary as unskilled has always been minimum wage and I am happy.
> 
> Rent or buying depends on the house and area. We rented a room to get an idea what it was like to be in a villa in our desired area at the time, we changed our minds on what we started out wanting after 4 months, bought in a different area and a newer property. We have a woodburner in the lounge and underfloor heating in the bathrooms, we bought a couple of little fan heaters which we have used just a few times. I do have to travel 30km each way, a small price to pay and I am used to this as I was in the same situation in the UK. I also shop around, just the same as I did in the UK, so really, no difference. Car insurance is cheaper even after going up $40 this year. House and contents is a little bit more, but fuel is a bit cheaper. Refuse and recycling collection every week here, recycling was fornightly in the UK. Our verges here are cut much more regularly and the roads are better maintained than the UK also.
> 
> There are many, many more things to mention and not much to complain about, (if any!) we have been here just over a year now and still love it and we have just had a write up on our experiences here.
> Swap Sides to Taranaki New Zealand - Taranaki - Like No Other
> Hope this is ok with the modifiers.


Hiya, I agree that in Taranaki rental properties or buying would probably cheaper than in but unfortunately here in Wellington rental prices are far higher than a similar property in similar vicinity to a major town/city in UK. 

I am comparing the standard & cost of living we had in the UK compared to here...based on a career of significantly more responsibility in NZ. Prices of majority of things, especially branded items, are far higher in NZ but the salaries are generally less. 
Some examples would be Sudafed Nasal Spray £2.75 GBP in NZ $18 (even 'home brand that is made in Auckland $14 & therefore isn't imported)
Simple Refreshing Face Wash in UK £2.99 in NZ $10.99
Homebrand Ibuprofen tablets in UK £0.26 in NZ $2.69
I agreed that the bargains are out there but they're not as easy to find as in UK. 
Health care in UK is free....it's not in NZ
Waste disposal in UK is free..it's not in Welly
So even though petrol/diesel, insurance etc are cheaper I've found the 'weekly' spends for everyday necessities are more expensive.

I suppose everyone has different experiences depending on what they were used to before emigration and which part of NZ they ended up. Hey...if the UK was that good we'd have never left eh? ;-)
Look forward to reading ur blog

Sent from my iPhone using ExpatForum


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## kiwigser

*42 in New Zealand*

Most of the correspondents on this forum are new to NZ or thinking about moving. I/we have been here nearly 7 years and so are settled, so I can reflect on our life here. 

When we lived in the UK we had a couple of relatives that had too much time on their hands and read the Daily Mail, so when we visited it was "how bad things are in the UK" etc etc. (you must read the Mail to understand). In fact nothing untoward really affected them, they lived in a quiet area and their major problem was traffic in outer London.

I now live in NZ and have too much time, so I read a lot of papers online. I find myself getting really wound up, until I remind myself that its all 1000's of miles away and does not alter my life here.

So if I ignore all the papers and that includes the Herald, what is my life like. I appreciate going into shops were the staff are friendly and helpful, strangers speak to me, going to a restaurant and a tip is not expected, but the most important thing is space, I can get to a quiet beach, park the car nearby or on the beach. I can troll off into the country with my camera and not see a sole. We can get the cheapo sports car out, drop the hood in the depths of winter or summer and easily find roads to yourself (just set your satnav to ignore state highways). All this applies even if you live in a major city including Auckland. (The beaches are a little further from Hamilton, but Raglans quite special).

We do also go to shows in Auckland, nights out etc. I am not a total saddo. (The NZ Geographic have their photo comp. results on at the Auckland Museum, free entry).

If you wonder what the 42 is for google it.


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## Friedkiwi

I got my $84 turkey for Thanksgiving this week, which would have been $12 in USA.

Most things cost more, but housing costs less than the Boston area here in Palmerston North.

My daily experiences are on my blog:
Www.friedkiwis.blogspot.co.nz

Cheers!
Liz


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## agurkas

Friedkiwi said:


> I got my $84 turkey for Thanksgiving this week, which would have been $12 in USA.
> 
> Most things cost more, but housing costs less than the Boston area here in Palmerston North.


Liz,

I haven't seen a $12 turkey for years. Maybe frozen one left over after Thanksgiving in Walmart. $30, if you want Butterball. $40+ for locally raised.
Plus, who eats turkey in NZ? Not exactly popular source of protein, so I would not be surprised price is higher.

You tell me lamb is 4X the US price and then we have a concern.


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## bdl123

agurkas said:


> Liz,
> 
> I haven't seen a $12 turkey for years. Maybe frozen one left over after Thanksgiving in Walmart. $30, if you want Butterball. $40+ for locally raised.
> Plus, who eats turkey in NZ? Not exactly popular source of protein, so I would not be surprised price is higher.
> 
> You tell me lamb is 4X the US price and then we have a concern.


Lamb is the same price in NZ as it is in UK....go figure!!!!

Sent from my iPhone using ExpatForum


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## topcat83

bdl123 said:


> ....Health care in UK is free....it's not in NZ....


Some clarifications here.... I'd say that NZ public health costs are different to the costs that you pay in the UK - but for most people you end up paying a similar amount.

In NZ you pay to go to the doctor's surgery - it can be as low as $15 but can go up to $80 if you're in a 'drop-in' centre in central Auckland. Register with a doctor and you'll pay less. They're all privately owned, so shop around.

But if your doctor recommends you see a specialist, or you need to go into hospital it is free. 

And the biggest difference we have found is the price of prescriptions.
In the UK you pay £7.65 per prescription item, and when we were there they would only give you 1 month's supply at a time.
In NZ, you pay $3 per prescription (although this is rising to $5 in January) - and they usually give you three months at a time. After the first 20 items in a year you pay nothing.

On the drugs that my husband has (and doing a rough calculation) he pays $60 per year on prescription medicines compared with £459 per year in UK.

I'll leave you to decide which country offers the cheapest public health care overall....

See Visiting a doctor | Ministry of Health


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## jsharbuck

I find that it's your attitude that makes you happy or unhappy living somewhere. No perfect place but we are enjoying living here. It's the people, the lifestyle and the beauty of the country.


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## bdl123

topcat83 said:


> Some clarifications here.... I'd say that NZ public health costs are different to the costs that you pay in the UK - but for most people you end up paying a similar amount.
> 
> In NZ you pay to go to the doctor's surgery - it can be as low as $15 but can go up to $80 if you're in a 'drop-in' centre in central Auckland. Register with a doctor and you'll pay less. They're all privately owned, so shop around.
> 
> But if your doctor recommends you see a specialist, or you need to go into hospital it is free.
> 
> And the biggest difference we have found is the price of prescriptions.
> In the UK you pay £7.65 per prescription item, and when we were there they would only give you 1 month's supply at a time.
> In NZ, you pay $3 per prescription (although this is rising to $5 in January) - and they usually give you three months at a time. After the first 20 items in a year you pay nothing.
> 
> On the drugs that my husband has (and doing a rough calculation) he pays $60 per year on prescription medicines compared with £459 per year in UK.
> 
> I'll leave you to decide which country offers the cheapest public health care overall....
> 
> See Visiting a doctor | Ministry of Health


The prescription charges are more expensive in the UK. However, if you require a lot of regular meds you can purchase a prepayment prescription certificate at a maximum of £104 per annum (admittedly still more than your husband pays in NZ). But in UK prescriptions are free for children (up to the age of 16 or 18 if they remain in full time education) anyone who is pregnant, anyone over the age of 60, anyone on income support, cancer sufferers...the list goes on.
I've found here in NZ that your over the counter medicines are usually more than x2 the price of the UK...maybe that's how the prescription meds charges can remain so low here.
I used to receive a supply of 3mths for my meds in UK...it depends what your meds are for ie. meds for hypertension will usually be supplied for 1mth as the effect on the BP can be quite dramatic and therefore it needs to be regularly observed. But you can ask for more if a supply from ur GP, my husband did.
You do not pay to see any GP...whatever age.
You do not pay to receive any medical care...Physio, investigations. occupational health, X-rays, maternity etc etc etc
I really cannot see how you can say that overall some people end up paying the same.

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## EmmieCH

Hi

I'm considering a move to NZ and find the price comparison comments ver interesting, and based on what I am paying in the UK now for goods I would have to say that some of the items listed are more expensive now. Also healthcare and waste collection are not free - we pay National Insurance and Council Tax. I waited over 5 months for a hospital appointment (just the first visit) and if you want to see a GP at my surgery expect a date three weeks in the future. Rubbish collection is fortnightly and in the summer this can cause bug problems. I accept NZ is not paradise but then again neither is England - high crime, high pollution, budget cuts, salary cuts, rising food and fuel costs, private rents going through the roof, a postcode NHS - you get the picture. Individuals experiences will differ but from my own 'middle class' existence right now I would be very happy to emigrate.


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## bdl123

EmmieCH said:


> Hi
> 
> I'm considering a move to NZ and find the price comparison comments ver interesting, and based on what I am paying in the UK now for goods I would have to say that some of the items listed are more expensive now. Also healthcare and waste collection are not free - we pay National Insurance and Council Tax. I waited over 5 months for a hospital appointment (just the first visit) and if you want to see a GP at my surgery expect a date three weeks in the future. Rubbish collection is fortnightly and in the summer this can cause bug problems. I accept NZ is not paradise but then again neither is England - high crime, high pollution, budget cuts, salary cuts, rising food and fuel costs, private rents going through the roof, a postcode NHS - you get the picture. Individuals experiences will differ but from my own 'middle class' existence right now I would be very happy to emigrate.


Do the unemployed and people visiting the UK pay National Insurance...I was unaware of this, however, their health care remains free of charge!
People in NZ still pay rates, which if the news reports are to be believed are escalating annually, some in Auckland have reported to be now paying $4000 per annum.

Don't get me wrong, I feel NZ is a far better country to live in than the UK. I just feel people should be aware that NZ does not provide the 'cheaper lifestyle' that countries in the Southern Hemisphere used to promise. The cost of living, overall, is comparable to the UK but unfortunately wages are generally a lot less for the same job...

Sent from my iPhone using ExpatForum


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## Friedkiwi

So, my grocery bill for the week was $300 for my family of four, and the same groceries were about $180-220 back in the states. Luckily, rent is less, so it evens out in the end.


Liz


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## jsharbuck

For two ours averages $200 a week...with a few bottles of wine.


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## topcat83

bdl123 said:


> .... I just feel people should be aware that NZ does not provide the 'cheaper lifestyle' that countries in the Southern Hemisphere used to promise. ....


I do agree here. People should not expect NZ to be cheaper than elsewhere. But it is extremely difficult to compare like-for-like as some things are cheaper and some things are more expensive.
I think you just have to say 'here I am, and this is how much it costs'. There's some opening for entrepreneurs over here too - anyone fancy importing rawlplugs and non-drip-paint??


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## jsharbuck

I'm starting a pickled okra business! Sold my first batch!


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## topcat83

jsharbuck said:


> For two ours averages $200 a week...with a few bottles of wine.


One must buy the essentials, mustn't one?


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## rolypoly

one thing attract me is the greenery ..

do you think i can grow my own vege?


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## topcat83

rolypoly said:


> one thing attract me is the greenery ..
> 
> do you think i can grow my own vege?


Of course!
Mind you, it does depend on whether you have a garden


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## dawnclaremaddox

topcat83 said:


> I do agree here. People should not expect NZ to be cheaper than elsewhere. But it is extremely difficult to compare like-for-like as some things are cheaper and some things are more expensive.
> I think you just have to say 'here I am, and this is how much it costs'. There's some opening for entrepreneurs over here too - anyone fancy importing rawlplugs and non-drip-paint??


How about christmas trees? Got a shock when I went to get a new 6ft tree from Farmers..


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## thomsons

I have been here three years with my husband and have struggled to make decent friends - the friends I do have all have lived abroad at some point and understand what we are going through moving 12000miles. 
Cost of living is expensive, expect to work longer hours, houses are bigger, but not as well built (in general) and workmen are not dependable at all (in my experience).
Shoes are ridiculously expensive (unless you buy cheap crappy shoes) and electrical goods are also very expensive.
You should have a look before you come over. We have been burgled twice (in the bay of plenty) and the police told us that burglary is particularly bad in this area. Racism is also prevalent in this country (quite a shock to my husband and I when we arrived as we were not expecting this at all).
Having said all that, the weather is pretty good, no snakes or scary spiders and if you are happy with a reasonably quiet, slower paced life and want to get on with it (but not make a quick buck) you will be fine.
There are ups and downs here in NZ, just as in the UK.


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## anski

dawnclaremaddox said:


> How about christmas trees? Got a shock when I went to get a new 6ft tree from Farmers..



What a plastic imported one from China?

Why not buy a native New Zealand living tree instead, it will last for many Christmas's and at the moment they are on special from Treatme 

$25 for Native NZ Pohutukawa Christmas Tree delivered from Dandy Plants


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## topcat83

dawnclaremaddox said:


> How about christmas trees? Got a shock when I went to get a new 6ft tree from Farmers..


We got ours two Christmases ago from Countdown - 6 foot of tinsel fronds for $25. 
Mind you, that was on Boxing Day


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## Andrew East

thomsons said:


> I have been here three years with my husband and have struggled to make decent friends - the friends I do have all have lived abroad at some point and understand what we are going through moving 12000miles.
> Cost of living is expensive, expect to work longer hours, houses are bigger, but not as well built (in general) and workmen are not dependable at all (in my experience).
> Shoes are ridiculously expensive (unless you buy cheap crappy shoes) and electrical goods are also very expensive.
> You should have a look before you come over. We have been burgled twice (in the bay of plenty) and the police told us that burglary is particularly bad in this area. Racism is also prevalent in this country (quite a shock to my husband and I when we arrived as we were not expecting this at all).
> Having said all that, the weather is pretty good, no snakes or scary spiders and if you are happy with a reasonably quiet, slower paced life and want to get on with it (but not make a quick buck) you will be fine.
> There are ups and downs here in NZ, just as in the UK.


I'm sorry to hear about the burglaries, did they catch the people responsible?

In what way did you encounter racism? I don't recall it being too bad when I was over there.


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## thomsons

Andrew East said:


> I'm sorry to hear about the burglaries, did they catch the people responsible?
> 
> In what way did you encounter racism? I don't recall it being too bad when I was over there.


They caught the latest burglers, but we got nothing back and they got home detention for stealing from four homes!

We have seen alot of racism against maoris. My best friend here is maori, but lived in the US for several years. Alot of people we meet tell us that they are over maoris getting everything for free and there is too much inequality. I think this is sad, every maori we have met has been lovely and extremely kind to us. Just my opinion. :sorry:


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## dawnclaremaddox

rolypoly said:


> one thing attract me is the greenery ..
> 
> do you think i can grow my own vege?


I grow most of my own vegetables here in Taranaki, I don't have to water my garden hardly, only when I put new stock in and we have a spell of good weather, after that they fend for themselves. Our food bill each week is $150 and that even pays for wine and a few beers and even entertaining!


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## Lester

thomsons said:


> We have seen alot of racism against maoris. My best friend here is maori, but lived in the US for several years. Alot of people we meet tell us that they are over maoris getting everything for free and there is too much inequality. I think this is sad, every maori we have met has been lovely and extremely kind to us. Just my opinion. :sorry:


It is vert sad, I hear the most unpleasant comments about Maori and Asians all the time and nobody seems to care who hears it and nobody ever steps up and disagrees or tell them that they are out of order. There is a lot of similar distasteful undercurrent in the media and among people that we meet towards almost anyone not born here.

Lately we have been so paranoid about having any windows and doors open in parts of the house where we are not sitting, our next door neighbours house was recently burgled, twice in the same week. Both times it was late at night whilst they were asleep in their beds and believed to be the same guys that came back for a second go after having stolen a key the first time. I know it can happen anywhere but this is way too close to home and extremely unsettling.


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## mikesurf

Crime and racism is bad in NZ. We were the victims of crime on 4 occasions in our 6 years there but when you say it is bad peple always give the same story, that it is overexagerated by the media etc etc. That's rubbish it's just another rose coloured glasses and greener grass syndrome by people who don't want to believe it.


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## topcat83

mikesurf said:


> Crime and racism is bad in NZ. We were the victims of crime on 4 occasions in our 6 years there but when you say it is bad peple always give the same story, that it is overexagerated by the media etc etc. That's rubbish it's just another rose coloured glasses and greener grass syndrome by people who don't want to believe it.


I think you've told us about your burglaries at least six times, Mike.

Anything else positive that you can add?


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## mikesurf

topcat83 said:


> I think you've told us about your burglaries at least six times, Mike.
> 
> Anything else positive that you can add?



Yes sorry about that. Sorry to rant, I think these forums are good for getting things off your chest. I will just put it down to a bad experience and leave it at that.


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## jsharbuck

I must say that the posts have made me question whether we are really seeing New Zealand for what it is or if we will end up being sorry we moved here. We have had wonderful experiences here with people and the culture. We must understand that people are looking to this forums as another research tool to help the, assess moving here. Let's not scare them or discourage them. This forum serves as a,good resource.


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## mikesurf

jsharbuck said:


> I must say that the posts have made me question whether we are really seeing New Zealand for what it is or if we will end up being sorry we moved here. We have had wonderful experiences here with people and the culture. We must understand that people are looking to this forums as another research tool to help the, assess moving here. Let's not scare them or discourage them. This forum serves as a,good resource.


Yes I agree it does sound a bit bad but this is our experience, I'm not saying it is everyone elses. I'm sure people will find it informative to get both sides of the story, not just "hey all is great here, there are no problems". It's a bit like moving into a new area of the UK, i'm sure people would like to know the good as well as the bad points. 

I don't really think people would be put off by a couple of posts, I know from personal experience that once most people get an idea and dream in their head there's nothing stopping them. People can only make up their own minds once they are there.


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## topcat83

mikesurf said:


> Yes I agree it does sound a bit bad but this is our experience, I'm not saying it is everyone elses. I'm sure people will find it informative to get both sides of the story, not just "hey all is great here, there are no problems". It's a bit like moving into a new area of the UK, i'm sure people would like to know the good as well as the bad points.
> 
> I don't really think people would be put off by a couple of posts, I know from personal experience that once most people get an idea and dream in their head there's nothing stopping them. People can only make up their own minds once they are there.


You're right, Mike - the point of this forum is to allow potential immigrants to see something of both sides of the picture - often the ones that fail are those that arrive with rose-tinted glasses. I often think it's our jobs as mods to make sure that balance is kept, and (as you may have noticed!) that things don't get repeated too many times. 

And to keep the trolls out, who in the past have gone out of their way to disrupt the forum. It wasn't their excessively negative comments that used to keep the genuine contributors away - it was that the others recognised they were playing and just didn't want to 'play' with the bullies. Thank goodness they have gone to play elsewhere...


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## SCR

*Clarity*

I have traveled the world and all but one continent, lived in 6 countries, and I'm here to tell you that there is no such thing as perfection. We try to justify our dreams by analyzing copious amounts of statistical data but the data is only as good as its premise and/or the amount of data that is actually available to its creator. Even government data can look good on paper but on the ground its a completely different reality. In other words, sensibility is your best friend.

Example: Britons tout low crime and tolerance yet my same-sex partner and I have experienced 3 hate crimes, one of which involved 4 days in the hospital and surgery on a broken jaw, since we've lived in the UK during the past 5 months. Before you wonder what we were doing when that happened; we both work highly professional jobs so we're responsible individuals and were beat up while holding hands and feeding ducks at a pond.in broad daylight. Anyway, considering the very high cost of living (food, taxes, energy, housing, insurance, petrol/car, etc) Britons are paying an average of 57% more for what I consider to be a much lower quality of life than I experience in Colorado (USA). Britons, on average, are paid 27% lower than Americans. My healthcare is free in The States too but its also far higher in quality than I've experienced here. Not to mention the friendliness factor is higher in The States as well. But these are the things that are important to me so my choice is to move back to The States when my partners immigration papers are completed. How I miss my wide-open spaces, snow-capped peaks, wildlife, outdoor activities, and dry and sunny climate back home.

So here's my point, no offense to New Zealanders or those wishing to move there but, having been there for extended stays, a country so far removed from the rest of world and with little in the way of diversified resources is not typically capable of producing a high quality lifestyle with low cost of living. Most New Zealanders I know can't wait to get out and many have left for The States for a better quality of life. Lastly, the research I've done on the country indicates that, indeed, my presumptions are correct. I don't think you should pack your bags and move to a place without first spending time there to consider the way you feel about it. 82% of those who try out Alaska end up returning to their home state. 

I wish you well on your journey and hope that clarity comes to you so you can make a well-informed decision. You may also want to check out Numbeo dot com. Click on the "Cost of Living" drop down menu and then click on "Cost of Living Comparison" to give you just a small snap shot of what to expect. Then be sure to check out the "Crime" and "Healthcare" menus too. Good luck!


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## inhamilton

SCR said:


> Then be sure to check out the "Crime"


Yes, it's all very depressing. Last year NZ had 39 intentional homicides. The US had 14,612.


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## topcat83

Hi SCR

I suppose it depends on your definition of 'high quality lifestyle'. New Zealand and Auckland certainly are very different to the UK and London - but as someone who was born in London, this place is my idea of paradise! Which gives me the 'highest quality' lifestyle? No competition! I'm staying where I am.

Also bear in mind that most people who live elsewhere from their birthplace are probably a tad biased - there were plenty that stayed. And comparing NZ to Alaska? Apples and oranges? I don't think 82% of people who come to NZ end up leaving again!

And when we first came over, I asked my son about crime - he saw too much of it while growing up in North West London. His reply: 'Mum, of course there's crime - Auckland is a city with people in it. But the general attitude here is different. People of my age generally treat their parents' property with respect for a start - and the level of crime is on a different scale'. 

I agree with your comment to make sure you investigate the place as much as possible in advance. If possible, people should come out for a visit - and not just visit the tourist places. That's not where most of us live!


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## kiwigser

*The States*

I am afraid SCR is suffering from the same "Rose Tinted" that a lot of us have. To balance the argument, the States has extreme inequality, much more than the UK or NZ, so bad, a serous article in New Scientist was postulating that a tipping point is being reached. I really would not wish to be gay with all those Re-necks armed with machine guns! (Workers not having rises since 2008 "NYT", airline pilots on $18,000 per annum, so poor they cannot afford hotel rooms "ABC")

We do have Americans emigrate here, A young couple stayed with us for a week, whilst they settled in. In the States he got 5 days unpaid holiday a year. Their daughter cost $4000 to be born even with health insurance. Her father got injured at work and eventually received $200,000, but the lawyer took $90,000, medical bills took $80,000, leaving $30,000 for him, and he cannot get disability. 

Doing the maths on Inhamiltons figures, you are 7 times as likely to be bumped of in the States.

There are good points to living in America, especially if you are comfortable and do not get ill or unemployed.


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## inhamilton

kiwigser said:


> I am afraid SCR is suffering from the same "Rose Tinted" that a lot of us have.


I think it's more a case of lantana-itis


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## Kimbella

"So here's my point, no offense to New Zealanders or those wishing to move there but, having been there for extended stays, a country so far removed from the rest of world and with little in the way of diversified resources is not typically capable of producing a high quality lifestyle with low cost of living. Most New Zealanders I know can't wait to get out and many have left for The States for a better quality of life. Lastly, the research I've done on the country indicates that, indeed, my presumptions are correct. I don't think you should pack your bags and move to a place without first spending time there to consider the way you feel about it. 82% of those who try out Alaska end up returning to their home state. " .......

~~~~~~~~~~~


Ppffttt... 

I was born and bred in the US, and lived a very comfortable upper middle class life in California, not exactly a "cheap" place to live, compared to other US states. High taxes, high cost of living, etc. My life here is EASILY as nice as in the US, and tremendous wealth is not required--proper planning, and good fiscal common sense, however, is. I don't know what "high quality lifestyle" you are alluding to in your comment, but if you haven't actually LIVED here, then I don't even know how you can, in any sort of good conscious, go about making sweeping statements about the "lifestyle" here!? What are you basing your assumptions on, statistics... those things you say in your opening dialogue to not trust? Your lengthy "visits"!? How seriously would you take someone who made grand statements about living in the US, when all they had done was visit, even if it was extended? New Zealanders you know? Hmm... well, they call themselves kiwis, pretty sure *everyone* knows that.

Living here is really not especially expensive--once you adapt your thinking to the ratio of wages to the NZ cost of living. Sure, if you don't make much money, you will live close to the poverty line (just like in the US!); however, here (unlike the US), there are a myriad of welfare schemes that *most* people/families are eligible for, that will vastly help improve the quality of life for most low wage earners. Now, if you're used to going out to eat nightly, or going to live theater, musical numbers, partying all the time, 1-2 packs of smokes a day--yah, your money probably won't go far. But, don't blame that on the nation, because the fault sits squarely in the lap of the person spending their dollars on things that are NOT part of the typical lifestyle here. This is not a country with a sleek and sophisticated nightlife--it is not filled with entertainment venues. This is a country filled with spectacular opportunities for interaction with NATURE. And, guess how much that costs? That's right---NOTHING--parks are free. Very unlike the US, CO included, where we no longer have the privilege to enter our state or federal parks without being charged (despite the inescapable and always escalating taxes we pay at both levels). So, if you're a poor family in CO who wants to go to Rocky Mountain National Park, you better have a spare $20 for that visit. Multiply that x's however many times you want to visit, and it quickly adds up--making appreciating the natural grandeur of a national park out of touch for a poor family. Here in NZ, not the case, free to come and go, anytime during open hours, as often as you like. And, hey, in some places they even supply free propane gas cooking bbq's for people to use. Yah, I know right? How could they afford to do that!?

Here is what the last several weeks of my life have entailed--I will let others judge what they think of its quality--we (family of 4: 2 adults/2 kids) live on approximately $1200 a week:

Kayaking on the Avon River -- FREE
Abseiling at Blue Skies ($7 per person)
Participated in the annual Kon Tiki Raft Race --FREE
Tubing down Ashley Gorge River -- FREE
Gondola and Tram (cable car) -- free (we have annual passes -- $119 for a year with 2 adults and 3 children gets unlimited free rides on gondola and city tram)
Korean festival in Cathedral Square -- FREE
Middleton Grange School Fiesta -- FREE
Christmas in the Park -- FREE
Jet skiing in Lyttelton Harbour (we have our own skis) -- FREE
Kayaking in the Heathcote River (we have our own kayaks) -- FREE
Hiking in Mount Thomas -- FREE
Tending my backyard garden, bee hives and chickens -- FREE
Botanical gardens -- FREE

Your post just smacks of self indulgent assumption making.
If you are accustomed to, and want to continue living a lifestyle where there is a walmart or dollar store on every corner, where coupon mania and shaving every penny off the purchase price of something is what you crave-- don't come here. If you want high energy night life that consists of live entertainment with musical numbers, broadway like productions, high calibre operatic like venues, posh clubs with red carpet and ropes--don't come here. 

Simply put, you can't feed the spirit with status or things.

However, if you value a flat tax based society, where most costs are up front and not hidden (making budgeting far easier, imo); if you value not wasting your time on coupon clipping or price haggling, and would rather pop in, pay the marked price, then get out to do something fun; if your idea of "lifestyle" is enjoying nature every time you gaze across the landscape--then come. If you enjoy DOING things, versus "going out" -- then come!
Our household income is LESS than it was in the US, and my life is filled with MORE tangible, *real* things than it ever was in the US. I spent half my time in the US worrying about what I would do IF I lost my job and consulting contracts (I don't even work here), IF I got sick and couldn't work, IF my husband lost his, IF the economy went belly up... blah, blah, blah. All that worrying about being financially stable in the US sucks the life out of you--even when you ARE financially stable in the US, it's still worrisome because of how poor the social safety nets are. At least I know here, that if the business went belly up, and we had no income--we'd be eligible for govt assistance at a price that would keep us healthy and stable. There is no price you can put on the comfort that brings. Good luck ever having that in the US. 

Lastly, here's my word on "high quality lifestyle with low cost of living." If you think that comes without a price on someone, you are very sadly deluding yourself. 
That low cost of living comes at the expense of the illegal laborers and out-sourced foreign wage-slave labour. That "low cost of living" creates an incredibly hierarchical class system that keeps the US capitalist system going. It is what is polluting the environment there, and creating the biggest economic divide in US history. 
Wages may be higher there, but here there is no ladder of hidden taxes and fees on everything, so although wages may be stagnant compared to the US, they are *steady* as is the pricing on things over here. Fuel has only fluctuated by about 5 or 6 cents the whole 2+ years I've been here. I will take the price-steady consumer market over here to the boom and bust of the US any day. 
Here a family can have mom working as a manager at a coffee shop, and dad working as a dry wall layer, and with 2 kids, they can STILL have a very nice, decent middle class lifestyle consisting of decent cars, a few kayaks or a fishing boat, trips away on holiday (Rarotonga, Oz, Bali, etc). You'd be hard pressed in an expensive middle-sized US city to find a family of 4 owning a home, AND having a *nice* middle class outdoorsy lifestyle on wages coming from those kinds of working class jobs. 
Wages might be higher in the US, but it's usually ripped off by the govt unless you have shelter schemes in place, and then don't mind doing 20 pages of IRS paperwork in Feb and March (been there, done that, hated it!).

NZ is not without its share of problems, it is polluting its environment at an unparalleled rate in modern history, and its current political system is at great risk of corruption because of the swiftness with which American-style materialism and capitalism have been adopted by politicians, there is poverty, abuse, and economic disparity, just like anywhere else in the world. But, the degrees matter, here, when comparing the US to here, because in no case do the negatives of NZ stack up against the US in comparison--everything bad here that is similarly bad in the US, is multiples of tens and hundreds times worse in the US because of sheer size of numbers and scale. 

I don't doubt that many of the kiwis you met were off elsewhere to make their mark on the world (and pad their bank accounts), but if you know them well, you will find that almost *all* will be heading back for the sunset of their lives--not all, but most. And, that is because there IS a quality of life here that you just cannot duplicate anywhere else in the world. There literally are NO other small, island nation, economically independent and stable, first world Western countries, except NZ. 

What is on offer here will be like nowhere else--know that ahead of time, and know it's what you want, and you'll be impressed with what you get.


----------



## simply me

Kimbella said:


> "So here's my point, no offense to New Zealanders or those wishing to move there but, having been there for extended stays, a country so far removed from the rest of world and with little in the way of diversified resources is not typically capable of producing a high quality lifestyle with low cost of living. Most New Zealanders I know can't wait to get out and many have left for The States for a better quality of life. Lastly, the research I've done on the country indicates that, indeed, my presumptions are correct. I don't think you should pack your bags and move to a place without first spending time there to consider the way you feel about it. 82% of those who try out Alaska end up returning to their home state. " .......
> 
> ~~~~~~~~~~~
> 
> Ppffttt...
> 
> I was born and bred in the US, and lived a very comfortable upper middle class life in California, not exactly a "cheap" place to live, compared to other US states. High taxes, high cost of living, etc. My life here is EASILY as nice as in the US, and tremendous wealth is not required--proper planning, and good fiscal common sense, however, is. I don't know what "high quality lifestyle" you are alluding to in your comment, but if you haven't actually LIVED here, then I don't even know how you can, in any sort of good conscious, go about making sweeping statements about the "lifestyle" here!? What are you basing your assumptions on, statistics... those things you say in your opening dialogue to not trust? Your lengthy "visits"!? How seriously would you take someone who made grand statements about living in the US, when all they had done was visit, even if it was extended? New Zealanders you know? Hmm... well, they call themselves kiwis, pretty sure *everyone* knows that.
> 
> Living here is really not especially expensive--once you adapt your thinking to the ratio of wages to the NZ cost of living. Sure, if you don't make much money, you will live close to the poverty line (just like in the US!); however, here (unlike the US), there are a myriad of welfare schemes that *most* people/families are eligible for, that will vastly help improve the quality of life for most low wage earners. Now, if you're used to going out to eat nightly, or going to live theater, musical numbers, partying all the time, 1-2 packs of smokes a day--yah, your money probably won't go far. But, don't blame that on the nation, because the fault sits squarely in the lap of the person spending their dollars on things that are NOT part of the typical lifestyle here. This is not a country with a sleek and sophisticated nightlife--it is not filled with entertainment venues. This is a country filled with spectacular opportunities for interaction with NATURE. And, guess how much that costs? That's right---NOTHING--parks are free. Very unlike the US, CO included, where we no longer have the privilege to enter our state or federal parks without being charged (despite the inescapable and always escalating taxes we pay at both levels). So, if you're a poor family in CO who wants to go to Rocky Mountain National Park, you better have a spare $20 for that visit. Multiply that x's however many times you want to visit, and it quickly adds up--making appreciating the natural grandeur of a national park out of touch for a poor family. Here in NZ, not the case, free to come and go, anytime during open hours, as often as you like. And, hey, in some places they even supply free propane gas cooking bbq's for people to use. Yah, I know right? How could they afford to do that!?
> 
> Here is what the last several weeks of my life have entailed--I will let others judge what they think of its quality--we (family of 4: 2 adults/2 kids) live on approximately $1200 a week:
> 
> Kayaking on the Avon River -- FREE
> Abseiling at Blue Skies ($7 per person)
> Participated in the annual Kon Tiki Raft Race --FREE
> Tubing down Ashley Gorge River -- FREE
> Gondola and Tram (cable car) -- free (we have annual passes -- $119 for a year with 2 adults and 3 children gets unlimited free rides on gondola and city tram)
> Korean festival in Cathedral Square -- FREE
> Middleton Grange School Fiesta -- FREE
> Christmas in the Park -- FREE
> Jet skiing in Lyttelton Harbour (we have our own skis) -- FREE
> Kayaking in the Heathcote River (we have our own kayaks) -- FREE
> Hiking in Mount Thomas -- FREE
> Tending my backyard garden, bee hives and chickens -- FREE
> Botanical gardens -- FREE
> 
> Your post just smacks of self indulgent assumption making.
> If you are accustomed to, and want to continue living a lifestyle where there is a walmart or dollar store on every corner, where coupon mania and shaving every penny off the purchase price of something is what you crave-- don't come here. If you want high energy night life that consists of live entertainment with musical numbers, broadway like productions, high calibre operatic like venues, posh clubs with red carpet and ropes--don't come here.
> 
> Simply put, you can't feed the spirit with status or things.
> 
> However, if you value a flat tax based society, where most costs are up front and not hidden (making budgeting far easier, imo); if you value not wasting your time on coupon clipping or price haggling, and would rather pop in, pay the marked price, then get out to do something fun; if your idea of "lifestyle" is enjoying nature every time you gaze across the landscape--then come. If you enjoy DOING things, versus "going out" -- then come!
> Our household income is LESS than it was in the US, and my life is filled with MORE tangible, *real* things than it ever was in the US. I spent half my time in the US worrying about what I would do IF I lost my job and consulting contracts (I don't even work here), IF I got sick and couldn't work, IF my husband lost his, IF the economy went belly up... blah, blah, blah. All that worrying about being financially stable in the US sucks the life out of you--even when you ARE financially stable in the US, it's still worrisome because of how poor the social safety nets are. At least I know here, that if the business went belly up, and we had no income--we'd be eligible for govt assistance at a price that would keep us healthy and stable. There is no price you can put on the comfort that brings. Good luck ever having that in the US.
> 
> Lastly, here's my word on "high quality lifestyle with low cost of living." If you think that comes without a price on someone, you are very sadly deluding yourself.
> That low cost of living comes at the expense of the illegal laborers and out-sourced foreign wage-slave labour. That "low cost of living" creates an incredibly hierarchical class system that keeps the US capitalist system going. It is what is polluting the environment there, and creating the biggest economic divide in US history.
> Wages may be higher there, but here there is no ladder of hidden taxes and fees on everything, so although wages may be stagnant compared to the US, they are *steady* as is the pricing on things over here. Fuel has only fluctuated by about 5 or 6 cents the whole 2+ years I've been here. I will take the price-steady consumer market over here to the boom and bust of the US any day.
> Here a family can have mom working as a manager at a coffee shop, and dad working as a dry wall layer, and with 2 kids, they can STILL have a very nice, decent middle class lifestyle consisting of decent cars, a few kayaks or a fishing boat, trips away on holiday (Rarotonga, Oz, Bali, etc). You'd be hard pressed in an expensive middle-sized US city to find a family of 4 owning a home, AND having a *nice* middle class outdoorsy lifestyle on wages coming from those kinds of working class jobs.
> Wages might be higher in the US, but it's usually ripped off by the govt unless you have shelter schemes in place, and then don't mind doing 20 pages of IRS paperwork in Feb and March (been there, done that, hated it!).
> 
> NZ is not without its share of problems, it is polluting its environment at an unparalleled rate in modern history, and its current political system is at great risk of corruption because of the swiftness with which American-style materialism and capitalism have been adopted by politicians, there is poverty, abuse, and economic disparity, just like anywhere else in the world. But, the degrees matter, here, when comparing the US to here, because in no case do the negatives of NZ stack up against the US in comparison--everything bad here that is similarly bad in the US, is multiples of tens and hundreds times worse in the US because of sheer size of numbers and scale.
> 
> I don't doubt that many of the kiwis you met were off elsewhere to make their mark on the world (and pad their bank accounts), but if you know them well, you will find that almost *all* will be heading back for the sunset of their lives--not all, but most. And, that is because there IS a quality of life here that you just cannot duplicate anywhere else in the world. There literally are NO other small, island nation, economically independent and stable, first world Western countries, except NZ.
> 
> What is on offer here will be like nowhere else--know that ahead of time, and know it's what you want, and you'll be impressed with what you get.


Kimbella..... 😊😊😊😊

Now, I can't wait to get there.


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## simply me

simply me said:


> Kimbella..... dde0adde0adde0adde0a
> 
> Now, I can't wait to get there.


Those were supposed to be smiley faces. Lol.


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## Kimbella

simply me said:


> Those were supposed to be smiley faces. Lol.


I think, if you come well prepared, have a sense of adventure, love the outdoors (and are fit enough to enjoy and participate in what NZ has to offer), you will not be disappointed. If, however, you don't come with a cushion of start up money, and struggle to appoint your new home with stuff, you'll be starting off on the wrong foot, and I don't know that you'll be able to correct your course at that point (unless you're the 'get 'er done' type--which you might have guessed, is how I am). 

Imo, the hardest part about the move--if you've mastered the financial piece--is wiggling your way into the kiwi social fabric. That part will be hard--kiwis are different than Americans, polite, but not especially "warm," and I don't find them to be "friendly" like we understand it to be in the US, but instead, it is more what we would define as courteous... I'm speaking in superficial generalities of course, and once you crack the social barrier, you'll find close connections with people just like you would in the US (I hope!). They are a social people, just in a different way than the US, and the style of communication can be quite excruciating and different than what we're accustomed to. Kiwis are very passive and reluctant to speak directly (I'm making a collective generalization here, you will find exceptions, of course)... they are not direct--at all-- and will take 5 minutes to answer a yes or no question with lots of pre-amble, and still leave you hanging with not knowing if their answer is yes or no. Drives me nuts and I'm married to one! lol I used to not know how to deal with this, I didn't want to be rude and say, "what do you mean, or what's your answer," etc. So I've taken to saying, "I'm not sure I understand the answer?" Praise, compliments, outbursts of excitement are way more muted here than in the US, so the social integration will likely be the hardest bit to adjust to, but it will come in time! Kiwis are not unkind, or unfriendly, they are simply much more reserved than the average American. They aren't as animated or expressive as we are, which is neither good nor bad, just different. I would suggest looking into joining some sports leagues or hobby clubs, and you'll probably need to softly push yourself into social events via self invitation. I suggest getting your kids into Scouts NZ, a great organization, and if their local den is in a decent neighborhood with well paid parents, they will be doing some *amazing* things! I think you'll find that once you're adjusted, you won't ever want to leave, even to visit the US!


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## jawnbc

And here's mine.: you've not lived in New Zealand. So you're really in no credible position to advise anyone about what it's like to live here. You've got a tourist's view and are relying on second hand data. 

Having lived in the US, Canada, Australia and New Zealand I do agree that there's no promised land. People need to do their homework, which is much easier to do in the era of the internet. Large countries like the US and Canada don't have meaningful national costs of living: it's variable by region. Wages are higher in major cities and lower in rural settings, with exceptions. Ditto housing costs, rental or ownership. 

I live in Auckland and it's about 10-15% more expensive for groceries than Canada...largely because of fruits and vegetables. Furniture is much more expensive. Gas for the car is about 20% higher--but car insurance is less than half what we paid in BC. Clothes can be had for reasonable prices; so can many consumer goods. Unlike the US or Canada prices here include any sales taxes. 

But NZ is a small country and Auckland a small city (with most big city amenities, since it's NZ's main city). There are pluses and minuses to that. I find the work ethic here is good. I know that many people earn less money here than they would in Canada or Australia. There are user fees for accessing doctors here (none in Canada), but prescriptions are usually $5 for a 3 month supply.

Housing quality is improving but still lags Europe, Canada, the US and Australia. Lots lacking insulation, with leaks and mould is a major problem. But some things are built better than others. 



SCR said:


> I have traveled the world and all but one continent, lived in 6 countries, and I'm here to tell you that there is no such thing as perfection. We try to justify our dreams by analyzing copious amounts of statistical data but the data is only as good as its premise and/or the amount of data that is actually available to its creator. Even government data can look good on paper but on the ground its a completely different reality. In other words, sensibility is your best friend.
> 
> So here's my point, no offense to New Zealanders or those wishing to move there but, having been there for extended stays, a country so far removed from the rest of world and with little in the way of diversified resources is not typically capable of producing a high quality lifestyle with low cost of living. Most New Zealanders I know can't wait to get out and many have left for The States for a better quality of life.
> \


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## sharbuck

It's funny how as an American who left the US last year for New Zealand, I would tell you it was for a better quality of life, which we have found. We have never been happier and more content. Each person has what and where, that makes them happy. We would never consider moving back. My husband is in demand for his skills and I have started a travel business.


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