# Citizenship by Descent



## Ifn (Jan 29, 2017)

I realize this is not a topic many would think about. My father was born in Spain and so I am eligible to apply for citizenship. It’s rather complicated. My question is: if you needed to wade thru the paperwork, bureaucracy and legal mumbo jumbo, which I have trouble understanding in English, who would you use for help....a Gestor, that mythical beast neither human nor lawyer that I’ve heard so much about? Or a lawyer? Or someone else?


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

It's not that difficult, my wife did hers on her own (although she does have native level Spanish). If you work and can't dedicate the time, maybe a professional would help, but if you have a bit of spare time during those elusive time windows when the official "funcionarios" actually attend to the public I would say to do it yourself.
Just don't get frustrated when you go with all the documents they ask for, and then they ask you for more!


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## Ifn (Jan 29, 2017)

Overandout said:


> It's not that difficult, my wife did hers on her own (although she does have native level Spanish). If you work and can't dedicate the time, maybe a professional would help, but if you have a bit of spare time during those elusive time windows when the official "funcionarios" actually attend to the public I would say to do it yourself.
> Just don't get frustrated when you go with all the documents they ask for, and then they ask you for more!


AHA! it looks like you live in Madrid. Could I take you two out for a drink.....er, after the New Year? 
I don’t know when your wife did her application but if I’m reading all this stuff right, there is now a spanish Cultural exam. I took a sample test and I got 76. I didn’t know All about how the government works, although I guess I can find out.....somewhere. And there were silly questions like who is Penelope Cruz and for what holiday do people eat turrón. There is also a language proficiency exam, given by Instituto Cervantes. You must have a Dele A1 level. I’ve taken classes here thru B2 but never took the DELE exams which are harder then the regular ones. 
I also have a neighbor you can help me. She’s married to a bullfighter (I love writing that) but the real point is she is from Brooklyn, like me and would help with deciphering the forms. 
Anyway, thanks for info.


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

You don't have to do the Instituto Cervantes exams for citizenship by descent.

You just have to prove your right to the citizenship.

Send me a PM and we can try to meet up (as you say, it will have to be new year).


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Ifn said:


> AHA! it looks like you live in Madrid. Could I take you two out for a drink.....er, after the New Year?
> I don’t know when your wife did her application but if I’m reading all this stuff right, there is now a spanish Cultural exam. I took a sample test and I got 76. I didn’t know All about how the government works, although I guess I can find out.....somewhere. And there were silly questions like who is Penelope Cruz and for what holiday do people eat turrón. There is also a language proficiency exam, given by Instituto Cervantes. You must have a Dele A1 level. I’ve taken classes here thru B2 but never took the DELE exams which are harder then the regular ones.
> I also have a neighbor you can help me. She’s married to a bullfighter (I love writing that) but the real point is she is from Brooklyn, like me and would help with deciphering the forms.
> Anyway, thanks for info.


I don't think you have to do any of that. The Language test and the CCSE _conocimientos constitucionales y socioculturales de España_ is for people who are seeking nationality through residence. You need to go to the Registro Civil for info. I have just done these exams myself. ( The DELE you need is A2, not A1)

BTW, you say that your father was born in Spain, but are you sure he had Spanish nationality because that is what counts?


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

Pesky Wesky said:


> I don't think you have to do any of that. The Language test and the CCSE _conocimientos constitucionales y socioculturales de España_ is for people who are seeking nationality through residence. You need to go to the Registro Civil for info. I have just done these exams myself. ( The DELE you need is A2, not A1)
> 
> BTW, you say that your father was born in Spain, but are you sure he had Spanish nationality because that is what counts?


How did the exams go Pesky? I will start my application sometime after March 2019, you appear to be a step or two ahead of me.
Maybe I will be inviting you out for a drink in Madrid in the new year too!!


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

The exams are fairly expensive and I didn't want to waste my money so I did tests from the parainmigrantes site to prepare for the CCSE. 

https://www.parainmigrantes.info/test-de-nacionalidad-espanola/
It's the typical stuff about the Constitution, courts etc that everyone should know really, but many don't. Even so, just by living in Spain and taking part in society, as I know you do, you shouldn't have any problems. I did see it as a way of learning a bit and if I'd had more time I would have studied more, but I wanted to get it done and moving before the end of the year.
I think it's 25 questions and you only have to get 15 right so it really isn't difficult. The only thing I would say to anyone who's reading this though is that although you only have to pass the DELE A2 to apply for Spanish nationality, I think the CCSE exam is difficult at that level. You'd be better off having a B1 or higher level to help you understand the CCSE multiple choice questions.

You can download a manual from the Instituto Cervantes site, but it's quite a big file. I just did the tests and learnt from there.

I decided to do the B2 language exam as doing the A2 seemed a little silly considering the time I've been here. I really should have been doing C1 or C2, but I know from the Cambridge Advanced and Proficiency exams (as I am an English teacher) that even with an excellent level you do have to become familiar with the exam and spend time preparing and I didn't have that time so I played safe. I practiced by looking at the Instituto Cervantes site and by writing about 4 or 5 timed essays for my husband or daughter to correct.
I know I have passed the CCSE, I think the result took @ 2 weeks, but the DELE takes 2 - 3 months so I'll have to wait until Jan/ Feb for that

A Madrid meet up could be arranged, why not?! Towards the end of Jan is good for me


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

Thanks for that.

I did one of the online simulations of the CCSE a while ago, and got 80% correct so I'm not too worried about that (although that site you linked to looks like it has more resources worth looking into).

I admit to assuming that I would breeze through the language test, but having read your post I´m not so sure anymore! My grasp of the subjunctive is still a bit shaky at times, for example.

Let's have a private chat between us and Ifn to arrange a meet in Jan then, I will send you both my contract details. And if any other Madrid people are reading this and want to tag along, just let me know.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Overandout said:


> Thanks for that.
> 
> I did on of the online simulations of the CCSE a while ago, and got 80% correct so I'm not too worried about that (although that site you linked to looks like it has more resources worth looking into).
> 
> ...


There's no subjunctive in A2, should you decide to take that. I'll probably settle for that just so that I can walk in & walk out. I ought to take C1, but would want some specific exam study before doing so & just don't have time. If that changes before I get around to it (save up for it) then I'll more than likely go for B2/C1

I got 80+% when I did some online CCSE trials so I'd do several practice runs before the exam.


A friend of mine who has been here over 30 years & is a very confident speaker, took A2. He achieved over 90% across all four units, though did some study & a lot of listening practice beforehand. 
Tbh I was surprised he did that well. I've never heard him use a past tense, nor the future, which are requirements. He always uses present perfect & ir a ...

Have a look at this FB group.
We have levelled exercises, some general free writing, speaking & listening, & some for specific language points.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/855649187942795/


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

In my work I have to read some pretty heavy going Spanish documents (Public Works Contracts, Legal texts etc.) so that's why I thought I'd be OK. I speak Spanish 95% of the time (much to detriment of my own children's level of English sadly) as all my colleagues and friends are either Spanish, or at least of other nationalities but fluent in Spanish. 

But I confess to relying heavily on autocorrect when I am writing documents and letters, this could be my downfall.....


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## Ifn (Jan 29, 2017)

Overandout said:


> How did the exams go Pesky? I will start my application sometime after March 2019, you appear to be a step or two ahead of me.
> Maybe I will be inviting you out for a drink in Madrid in the new year too!!


Maybe we Madrileños should all go out after New year and commiserate!
If you have Movistar(Mobistar?) they have a series right now on the Constitution. It hit me that their Constitution is only 40 years old. And I’m American with a relately young Constitution. 
Anyway, I muddle thru watching with the help of the Spanish subtitles.
If you live in Madrid I can recommend a good intercambio group and other stuff . PM me if you want.


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## Ifn (Jan 29, 2017)

Pesky Wesky said:


> I don't think you have to do any of that. The Language test and the CCSE _conocimientos constitucionales y socioculturales de España_ is for people who are seeking nationality through residence. You need to go to the Registro Civil for info. I have just done these exams myself. ( The DELE you need is A2, not A1)
> 
> BTW, you say that your father was born in Spain, but are you sure he had Spanish nationality because that is what counts?


Hey Pesky Wesky, I’m happy for you. I was actually kind of looking forward to the exams. It would force me to study!

Yes my father was a born in Galicia. A little mountain boy. It was his wonderful stories of Spain that got me loving this place before I ever visited.


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## Ifn (Jan 29, 2017)

Pesky Wesky said:


> The exams are fairly expensive and I didn't want to waste my money so I did tests from the parainmigrantes site to prepare for the CCSE.
> 
> https://www.parainmigrantes.info/test-de-nacionalidad-espanola/
> It's the typical stuff about the Constitution, courts etc that everyone should know really, but many don't. Even so, just by living in Spain and taking part in society, as I know you do, you shouldn't have any problems. I did see it as a way of learning a bit and if I'd had more time I would have studied more, but I wanted to get it done and moving before the end of the year.
> ...


I just finished up to B2 at AIL language school here. I admire you for taking B2 DELE since I know how hard the DELEs are. And how hard B2 is just on it’s own. AIL was very rigorous. Way more then Institute Cervantes’ classes in NY. You had to pass the exams or go back a grade or take make up classes. One thing I noticed about these exams, and my teacher said it was even more so for the DELE exam, is that there were a lot of trick questions. Subtleties on the questions or even in the instructions, that you have to pay careful attention to. Since I’ve been out of school for 40 years I either missed the subtleties or Way over thought it. :faint: 
I had been looking forward to continuing to C1 but I never took the B2 exam. It was getting so stressful. Ok, I’m a weakling, I admit. In any case I realized C1 was gonna be too challenging for me AND irritate the hell out of me with the stupid trick questions. 
I’m sure you aced it.


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

I'm trying to write reports for my students and it is so frustrating. I passed A2 at EOI but it wasn't that hard. But I really struggle writing suitably academic scripts. I envy those of you who achieved higher levels. I think I need to up my game


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

kaipa said:


> I'm trying to write reports for my students and it is so frustrating. I passed A2 at EOI but it wasn't that hard. But I really struggle writing suitably academic scripts. I envy those of you who achieved higher levels. I think I need to up my game


 I feel for you.
I am writing reports at this very moment, but in the company I teach in atm, I can do it in English, and that's difficult enough!


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

kaipa said:


> I'm trying to write reports for my students and it is so frustrating. I passed A2 at EOI but it wasn't that hard. But I really struggle writing suitably academic scripts. I envy those of you who achieved higher levels. I think I need to up my game


What age are your students?


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Ifn said:


> I just finished up to B2 at AIL language school here. I admire you for taking B2 DELE since I know how hard the DELEs are. And how hard B2 is just on it’s own. AIL was very rigorous. Way more then Institute Cervantes’ classes in NY. You had to pass the exams or go back a grade or take make up classes. One thing I noticed about these exams, and my teacher said it was even more so for the DELE exam, is that there were a lot of trick questions. Subtleties on the questions or even in the instructions, that you have to pay careful attention to. Since I’ve been out of school for 40 years I either missed the subtleties or Way over thought it. :faint:
> I had been looking forward to continuing to C1 but I never took the B2 exam. It was getting so stressful. Ok, I’m a weakling, I admit. In any case I realized C1 was gonna be too challenging for me AND irritate the hell out of me with the stupid trick questions.
> I’m sure you aced it.


Thanks. I hope I've "aced" it. I certainly _should_, but ...

You do have to familiarize yourself with the exam and practice weak areas. I wanted to practice a bit of writing for example because, like you, I haven't done this kind of thing for a while and it was also important to do timed exercises, just to check that I had the right rhythm. I didn't really notice "trick" questions. (That was much more evident in the driving test I did here, many years ago now). In the listening they like to lead you down the wrong path and only say the essential sentence with The Vital Information right at the end, but in general I was surprised that the listening wasn't more difficult, more complex.
As I said, I should be at least at C1 level and I would like to think I am there, but even so, as you know, the exam takes preparation and like xabiachica, I don't have that time or money to risk! In the Cambridge C1 and C2 level exams in English, native speakers can find difficulties in the reading exercises for example.


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

My students are adults but the reports are for their company so they have to be pretty much error free ( which is difficult even when trying to be fairly general and brief). I usually do them and then get a Spanish speaker to check them but it takes a long time. I need a crash course in just this specific area!


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

kaipa said:


> My students are adults but the reports are for their company so they have to be pretty much error free ( which is difficult even when trying to be fairly general and brief). I usually do them and then get a Spanish speaker to check them but it takes a long time. I need a crash course in just this specific area!


Will send PM


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Overandout said:


> In my work I have to read some pretty heavy going Spanish documents (Public Works Contracts, Legal texts etc.) so that's why I thought I'd be OK. I speak Spanish 95% of the time (much to detriment of my own children's level of English sadly) as all my colleagues and friends are either Spanish, or at least of other nationalities but fluent in Spanish.
> 
> But I confess to relying heavily on autocorrect when I am writing documents and letters, this could be my downfall.....


I can't see why you'd have any problems; I was just very cautious thinking about money and time and also just because I know how these kind of exams work


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## Ifn (Jan 29, 2017)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Thanks. I hope I've "aced" it. I certainly _should_, but ...
> 
> You do have to familiarize yourself with the exam and practice weak areas. I wanted to practice a bit of writing for example because, like you, I haven't done this kind of thing for a while and it was also important to do timed exercises, just to check that I had the right rhythm. I didn't really notice "trick" questions. (That was much more evident in the driving test I did here, many years ago now). In the listening they like to lead you down the wrong path and only say the essential sentence with The Vital Information right at the end, but in general I was surprised that the listening wasn't more difficult, more complex.
> As I said, I should be at least at C1 level and I would like to think I am there, but even so, as you know, the exam takes preparation and like xabiachica, I don't have that time or money to risk! In the Cambridge C1 and C2 level exams in English, native speakers can find difficulties in the reading exercises for example.


It’s probably more my problem. I found subtleties where there went any and missed the ones that were there. Haha. Another amusing (not) issue is that I’m not used to expressing strong opinions. Personally I think I’m often wrong which isn’t a me put down. It’s actually just wisdom. But in Spanish , especially in those essays, your supposed to have an opinion. My teacher observed that I seemed lost. Because I kept seeing every side! I was a type of therapist in my previous life and I taught myself not to judge. Which doesn’t seem to be very Spanish


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

> d





Ifn said:


> It’s probably more my problem. I found subtleties where there went any and missed the ones that were there. Haha. Another amusing (not) issue is that I’m not used to expressing strong opinions. Personally I think I’m often wrong which isn’t a me put down. It’s actually just wisdom. But in Spanish , especially in those essays, your supposed to have an opinion. My teacher observed that I seemed lost. Because I kept seeing every side! I was a type of therapist in my previous life and I taught myself not to judge. Which doesn’t seem to be very Spanish


That is actually nothing to do with nationality traits, just exams. The Cambridge exams for English also ask for the for and against type of writing and if you do decide to do the exam your training should be an advantage not a disadvantage. You need a couple of sentences intro, then a couple of ideas for, couple of ideas against , your opinion ( one or two sentences. Make it up if you want) and conclusion. It's to make you use language like in addition, however, although, in conclusion, to summarise etc


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## Juan C (Sep 4, 2017)

I looked on the internet. I found this. It should answer your questions 

http://www.exteriores.gob.es/Portal...cionParaExtranjeros/Paginas/Nacionalidad.aspx


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## Ifn (Jan 29, 2017)

For those who have to take the Dele exam for citizenship my advice is to stick to the A2 level even if you think you are at a higher level. Why create unexpected problems and everyone has weak area.
Scroll down to the bottom of this page for sample exams in each level.https://www.fu-tenerife.com/dele-exam-2019/#7
As for the government and culture test, I believe there are 300 questions (I think multiple choice) which is way more then asked for in the USA . 
Right now, I’m waiting to get a copy of my fathers birth certificate. It may be a problem since he was born in 1898 or 99. They were keeping records then but he was born in a tiny Pueblo. 
I still think, from my research that I will have to take at least the language exam. I may be exempt from the government and culture exam because the Spanish government thinks a person of 70 is too feeble minded to study. I’ll take what I can get!
Happy New Year all.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Ifn said:


> For those who have to take the Dele exam for citizenship my advice is to stick to the A2 level even if you think you are at a higher level. Why create unexpected problems and everyone has weak area.
> Scroll down to the bottom of this page for sample exams in each level.https://www.fu-tenerife.com/dele-exam-2019/#7
> As for the government and culture test, I believe there are 300 questions (I think multiple choice) which is way more then asked for in the USA .
> Right now, I’m waiting to get a copy of my fathers birth certificate. It may be a problem since he was born in 1898 or 99. They were keeping records then but he was born in a tiny Pueblo.
> ...


There's a 'stock' of 300 questions, from which you are given 20 for the CCSE exam.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

xabiaxica said:


> There's a 'stock' of 300 questions, from which you are given 20 for the CCSE exam.


The CCSE tests contain 25 questions of which you have to answer a minimum of 15 correctly to pass. The parainmigrantes site and instituto Cervantes are good for example test questions.
You are given 45 mins I think it is . I, and several others, had finished after 10 mins.


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## Ifn (Jan 29, 2017)

Pesky Wesky said:


> The CCSE tests contain 25 questions of which you have to answer a minimum of 15 correctly to pass. The parainmigrantes site and instituto Cervantes are good for example test questions.
> You are given 45 mins I think it is . I, and several others, had finished after 10 mins.


Thanks for clarification. But sadly, I’m too feeble minded to take the test


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Pesky Wesky said:


> The CCSE tests contain 25 questions of which you have to answer a minimum of 15 correctly to pass. The parainmigrantes site and instituto Cervantes are good for example test questions.
> You are given 45 mins I think it is . I, and several others, had finished after 10 mins.


That's it!

25 not 20. When you think about it, 15/25 shouldn't be that hard to do, though I do agree that anyone with only an A2 level might struggle with the studying.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Overandout said:


> How did the exams go Pesky? I will start my application sometime after March 2019, you appear to be a step or two ahead of me.
> Maybe I will be inviting you out for a drink in Madrid in the new year too!!


I have just had confirmation that I passed them all thank goodness. It would have been a bit embarrassing if I hadn't.


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

Pesky Wesky said:


> I have just had confirmation that I passed them all thank goodness. It would have been a bit embarrassing if I hadn't.


Congrats Pesky!


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## Ifn (Jan 29, 2017)

:clap2::clap2::clap2::clap2:


Pesky Wesky said:


> I have just had confirmation that I passed them all thank goodness. It would have been a bit embarrassing if I hadn't.


Hooray for you. That’s great. 
Meanwhile, in cold Madrid, I received a notice about getting my father’s birth certificate. I have to write to a different office of the diocese in Santiago de Compostela. I’ll have to explain that there are two possible years and two possible spellings of his name. Luckily, I have relatives there who might help me with understanding the background and the system


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Ifn said:


> :clap2::clap2::clap2::clap2:
> Hooray for you. That’s great.
> Meanwhile, in cold Madrid, I received a notice about getting my father’s birth certificate. I have to write to a different office of the diocese in Santiago de Compostela. I’ll have to explain that there are two possible years and two possible spellings of his name. Luckily, I have relatives there who might help me with understanding the background and the system


Complicated!


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