# South America? North America?



## RVGRINGO (May 16, 2007)

Mexico is not in South America, but it is in North America.
Shipping food can be a problem. I believe that meat is prohibited, for example.


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

Never mind that is how it referred to in many counries, Europe to start with..for them South America is synonimous with Latin America and has nothing to do with geography or maybe they do not look at the map of the Americas..I do not know.
I had the same conversation in a music store where Mexico was not under North America but South America so could not find what I was looking for..


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

citlali said:


> Never mind that is how it referred to in many counries, Europe to start with..for them South America is synonimous with Latin America and has nothing to do with geography or maybe they do not look at the map of the Americas..I do not know.
> I had the same conversation in a music store where Mexico was not under North America but South America so could not find what I was looking for..


Definitely a European misconception. I have some house guests now from Europe. They also were surprised to learn that Mexico is part of North America, not South America.


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

TundraGreen said:


> Definitely a European misconception. I have some house guests now from Europe. They also were surprised to learn that Mexico is part of North America, not South America.


I guess they've never heard about NAFTA, a treaty signed by the leaders of Canada, the USA and Mexico. Do Europeans also think that Central America is part of South America? That would indeed be odd.


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

For European South America is Latin and North America Anglo Saxon end of subject, it is a different way to look at it and this make Central America part of South America as well. You look at the geography , they look at the culture.


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

citlali said:


> For European South America is Latin and North America Anglo Saxon end of subject, it is a different way to look at it and this make Central America part of South America as well. You look at the geography , they look at the culture.


That's all well and good, but not really a reflection of how the people who live in these parts of the world think of themselves. If you would ask someone from, for example, Argentina, if Guatemala was part of South America, they would strongly disagree, I'm sure.


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

citlali said:


> For European South America is Latin and North America Anglo Saxon end of subject, it is a different way to look at it and this make Central America part of South America as well. You look at the geography , they look at the culture.


As someone has said in another context, people are entitled to their own opinions, but not to their own facts. South America and North America are continents, not ethnic regions. If the schools are not educating Europeans to these facts, they are not doing their job.


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

You can say it until you are blue that is the way they look at it and no amount of talk on a forum is going to change it.


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## mattoleriver (Oct 21, 2011)

Once this one gets settled could somebody explain Europe and Asia?


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

one side has round eyes and the other slented eyes? That is an easy one.


Maybe Latin America would be a better description than "South America" but then the other is Anglo America?? not correct eiher.

How about Africa? North Africa and Black Africa?? and then you have the Middle East..where does that fit ?


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## Hound Dog (Jan 18, 2009)

Isla Verde said:


> I guess they've never heard about NAFTA, a treaty signed by the leaders of Canada, the USA and Mexico. Do Europeans also think that Central America is part of South America? That would indeed be odd.


I presume, Isla, that you refer to the fact that Central America is, geographically speaking, part of the North American Continent so North America has within its boundaries the most dangerous political entity on Earth - namely Honduras with a couple of other North American political entities close behind on the violence per capita scale. Those would be El Salvador and Guatemala the latter of which used to include Dawg´s latest stomping grounds of what is now the Mexican state of Chiapas including the now coastal province of Soconusco. It seems that the few enfranchised landed gentry of the Chiapas región voted to join the Mexican confederation once it was established in the 19th Century and break off its historic ties to the then Spanish ruled Captaincy of Guatemala which also included the present day Mexican states of Campeche and Tabasco and present day El Salvador, Honduras, Nicaragua and Costa Rica. _See_! There is more to Chiapas than simply the best tamales on the planet.


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## Cristobal (Nov 25, 2014)

TundraGreen said:


> As someone has said in another context, people are entitled to their own opinions, but not to their own facts. South America and North America are continents, not ethnic regions. If the schools are not educating Europeans to these facts, they are not doing their job.



North and South America are separate continents according to whom? Because in Mexico (and other countries located there) North, Central and South America all belong to one continent, America. Schools here and throughout Latin America, teach that there are 5 continents, not 7. Europa, Asia, Africa, America and Oceania.

North, Central and South are merely regions on the same continent.


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

Cristobal said:


> North and South America are separate continents according to whom? Because in Mexico (and other countries located there) North, Central and South America all belong to one continent, America. Schools here and throughout Latin America, teach that there are 5 continents, not 7. Europa, Asia, Africa, America and Oceania.
> 
> North, Central and South are merely regions on the same continent.


But they don't teach that Mexico is part of South America, do they?


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## Cristobal (Nov 25, 2014)

Isla Verde said:


> But they don't teach that Mexico is part of South America, do they?


Of course not. 

My post was simply a polite rebuttal to TG's opinion that what is taught in US schools may be factual to him but isn't necessarily considered or accepted as factual by people in other parts of the world. As he himself pointed out, he is entitled to his opinion but not his facts. His Americentrism is showing.


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

Cristobal said:


> Of course not.
> 
> My post was simply a polite rebuttal to TG's opinion that what is taught in US schools may be factual to him but isn't necessarily considered or accepted as factual by people in other parts of the world. As he himself pointed out, he is entitled to his opinion but not his facts. His Americentrism is showing.


I know TG, and I can assure you he doesn't suffer from "Americentrism". And those Europeans who insist on placing Mexico in South America. Do they suffer from "Eurocentrism"?


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

You can also contest the two continebts, Europe and Asia since thee is not divide between them at all except for a cultural one. 
We can consider the two as the Eurasian continent so we really have 4 continents..


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

Apparently, there are lots of options:

4 continents	
- Afro-Eurasia
- America
- Antarctica
- Australia

5 continents
-Africa
- Eurasia
- America
- Antarctica
- Australia

6 continents	
- Africa
- Europe
- Asia
- America
- Antarctica
- Australia

6 continents
- Africa
- Eurasia
- North America
- South America
- Antarctica
- Australia

7 continents
- Africa
- Europe
- Asia
- North America
- South America
- Antarctica
- Australia

But in none of the options, does Mexico lie in "South America". It is part of either "America" or "North America". Facts are facts.


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

I just noticed that on the pages of this forum, there are drop down menus for seven continents and, horror of horrors, Mexico is listed under South America.


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

TundraGreen said:


> I just noticed that on the pages of this forum, there are drop down menus for seven continents and, horror of horrors, Mexico is listed under South America.


Where are these drop-down menus? If you click on the Expat Country Forums tab at the top of the page, Mexico is listed under North America.


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## Cristobal (Nov 25, 2014)

TundraGreen said:


> Apparently, there are lots of options:
> But in none of the options, does Mexico lie in "South America". It is part of either "America" or "North America". Facts are facts.


Yes, of course. Facts are facts. But your prior post claimed that North and South America were two different continents and those teaching otherwise were mistaken. I'd call that an opinion, not a fact. A statement based on the fact that you were apparently unaware that many people in the world consider America one continent.

Yes there is debate on what exactly is defined as a continent and therefore how many continents there are. Here is an interesting and brief explanation of another point of view. 

¿Cuántos continentes hay y cuáles son? | Saber Es Práctico



> La ambigua definición de la palabra “continente“, en su acepción geográfica, ha conducido a la comunidad científica a una falta de consenso para establecer el número de continentes existentes.
> 
> En consecuencia, actualmente hay diferentes modelos que establecen un número variante de continentes (echad un vistazo a “Principales modelos de continentes“). Sin embargo, aunque existen diferentes propuestas al respecto, hay una más aceptada y difundida: el modelo de los 5 continentes: Europa, América, Asia, África y Oceanía


And for those who are interested in how Mexico views the subject, here is a link the 6th grade geography text used in schools here:

http://www2.sepdf.gob.mx/reforma_integral/sexto_grado/geografia-6.pdf

Mexico does make a distinction on cultural divides within America and separates itself from America anglosajona and places it in Latinoamerica while at the same time teaches that it belongs economically in North America (NAFTA). The cultural division seems to coincide in how citlali said many Europeans view this continent.


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

Cristobal said:


> . . . Mexico does make a distinction on cultural divides within America and separates itself from America anglosajona and places it in Latinoamerica while at the same time teaches that it belongs economically in North America (NAFTA). The cultural division seems to coincide in how citlali said many Europeans view this continent.


Not really. We don't know if Europeans think of South America as merely a geographical concept or a cultural one, whereas the difference between Latinoamérica and North America is quite clear on this matter.


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## Cristobal (Nov 25, 2014)

Isla Verde said:


> I know TG, and I can assure you he doesn't suffer from "Americentrism". And those Europeans who insist on placing Mexico in South America. Do they suffer from "Eurocentrism"?


Maybe so. Most people's view the world is shaped a great deal by where they grew up. Some acquire a very limited view, others, through travel or exposure to other cultures may acquire a much broader way to see the world. All of our opinions are subjective to various degrees.

BTW, I didn't use the word suffer. That was your interpretation.


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

Isla Verde said:


> Where are these drop-down menus? If you click on the Expat Country Forums tab at the top of the page, Mexico is listed under North America.


In the column on the right, near the bottom of the page there is a list of continents. Earlier today, Mexico was listed under South America. Now it is listed under North America.


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

TundraGreen said:


> In the column on the right, near the bottom of the page there is a list of continents. Earlier today, Mexico was listed under South America. Now it is listed under North America.


I never noticed that before. Are you responsible for correcting the error?


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

Isla Verde said:


> I never noticed that before. Are you responsible for correcting the error?


Maybe. I asked that it be fixed a few hours ago.


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

Cristobal said:


> Yes, of course. Facts are facts. But your prior post claimed that North and South America were two different continents and those teaching otherwise were mistaken. I'd call that an opinion, not a fact. A statement based on the fact that you were apparently unaware that many people in the world consider America one continent.


I was making a distinction between continents and ethnic regions. If you want to call the Americas or America one continent, that is fine with me. Then it includes Mexico. But if you are going to distinguish between North and South America, then Mexico goes north, not south and that was the point I was making. If you want to divide the America(s) into ethnic regions based on predominant language, Anglo America versus Latin America, then you can group Mexico with the other Romance language speaking countries.

As far as my not being aware of America as a region or continent, I personally have long objected to the word "American" being used to refer to someone from the US. In a post three years ago, I mentioned this objection in the context of a discussion of the so-called "American Society of Jalisco".


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## Cristobal (Nov 25, 2014)

TundraGreen said:


> I was making a distinction between continents and ethnic regions. If you want to call the Americas or America one continent, that is fine with me. Then it includes Mexico. But if you are going to distinguish between North and South America, then Mexico goes north, not south and that was the point I was making. If you want to divide the America(s) into ethnic regions based on predominant language, Anglo America versus Latin America, then you can group Mexico with the other Romance language speaking countries.
> 
> As far as my not being aware of America as a region or continent, I personally have long objected to the word "American" being used to refer to someone from the US. In a post three years ago, I mentioned this objection in the context of a discussion of the so-called "American Society of Jalisco".


I included a link to a Mexican 6th grade geography lesson. It gives a different perspective than that which is taught in American schools. Maybe people here are more concerned with cultural divisions than geographical location.

I won't get into the tired and worn out debate on whether citizens from the US should be referred to as Americans other than to say, I have never heard a Mexican object. In fact most use the term americano in regard to people from the US.


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

Cristobal said:


> I included a link to a Mexican 6th grade geography lesson. It gives a different perspective than that which is taught in American schools. Maybe people here are more concerned with cultural divisions than geographical location.
> 
> I won't get into the tired and worn out debate on whether citizens from the US should be referred to as Americans other than to say, I have never heard a Mexican object. In fact most use the term americano in regard to people from the US.


I have also never heard a Mexican indicate they thought Mexico was part of South America. I believe this discussion started with the Europeans being under that misperception. And as far as I can tell that misperception remains an error of fact not a difference of opinion. Mexico, in fact, is a part of America, or North America or Latin America, but it is never a part of South America.

Incidentally, in addition to the school text cited by Cristobal as evidence for Mexicans thinking of Mexico as a part of America, there is the additional fact that the Mexico City futbol team is called Club América or more simply, América.


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## vantexan (Sep 4, 2011)

I'm really tempted to discuss tipping in Dollars here.


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## ojosazules11 (Nov 3, 2013)

Cristobal said:


> Yes, of course. Facts are facts. But your prior post claimed that North and South America were two different continents and those teaching otherwise were mistaken. I'd call that an opinion, not a fact. A statement based on the fact that you were apparently unaware that many people in the world consider America one continent.
> 
> Yes there is debate on what exactly is defined as a continent and therefore how many continents there are. Here is an interesting and brief explanation of another point of view.
> 
> ...


Interesting links, Cristobal. I note that in "Saber Es Práctico" they divide Eurasia into 2 continents (Europe and Asia) whereas in the Mexican Grade 6 Textbook it's a single continent. I also learned that in Spanish "Antártida" is another term for "Antártica" - except that "Antártida" isn't in the Real Academia Española. :confused2:  

In the same "Saber Es Práctico" there are lists of countries in North America, Central America, and South America. Mexico is included in North America.

When looking at the lists, note that North America is not the only one of these 3 subcontinents with non-Latin, English-speaking countries. Central America has Belize. South America has Guyana, along with Dutch-speaking Suriname, and French Guiana (which for some reason was not included in the list on the "Saber Es Práctico" website).

So it seems clear to me that if using geographical references of North, South, and Central to delineate which part of the continent of America is being referred to, Mexico simply is not considered part of "South America" by any official source, including Latin American sources. I don't consider tourists from Europe, Canada or the U.S. to be official sources by any stretch of the imagination, and I find it's common for tourists from all 3 to refer to Mexico as a "South" American country. That doesn't make it so. It bugs me to no end, but anymore I often just let it go. It does reflect a level of ignorance about the rest of this wonderful continent, but it's not ill-intentioned.

Países y capitales de América del Norte | Saber Es Práctico

Países y capitales de América del Sur | Saber Es Práctico

Países y capitales de América Central | Saber Es Práctico


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## ojosazules11 (Nov 3, 2013)

Oops. I realize I included French Guiana as one of the "non-Latin" countries in the post above, but of course if it's French-speaking, it would be Latin along with the Spanish and Portuguese-speaking countries. I wonder if the French Guianese consider themselves Latin American, South American, or something completely different. 

It gets tricky trying to divide ourselves up into categories. No wonder there are so many wars...


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## Cristobal (Nov 25, 2014)

Nowhere, in any of my posts, have I claimed Mexico is located in South America. 

Personally I have run across few Americans or Canadians that believe Mexico is part of South America. And they are generally ignorant types of the sort that believe Obama is a Muslim or other similar nonsense.


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## vantexan (Sep 4, 2011)

Anyone mention that they're on different tectonic(I believe that's the right word) plates? Where Panama touches South America is where two plates are touching. Plus you have one area cut off from the other by the Darien Gap. What's the language of the Aztecs? Nahuatl? Prevalent language among indigenous in northern Central America outside of the Mayan dialects in Guatemala. Not found in South America.


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

ojosazules11 said:


> Oops. I realize I included French Guiana as one of the "non-Latin" countries in the post above, but of course if it's French-speaking, it would be Latin along with the Spanish and Portuguese-speaking countries. I wonder if the French Guianese consider themselves Latin American, South American, or something completely different.


Since French Guiana is a department of France, maybe they think of themselves as French!


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

They consider themselves Guyanais first speak a dialect and live in a French Departement d´ outre-mer in South America or Amerique Latine. 
They will be French unti they decide they want to be independent. They get a lot of perks to remain French just like Guadalupe or Martinique.
Guyane was made famous because it is where the criminals condemned to hard labor would be sent like Jean Valjean in Les Miserables.


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## ojosazules11 (Nov 3, 2013)

Cristobal said:


> Nowhere, in any of my posts, have I claimed Mexico is located in South America.
> 
> Personally I have run across few Americans or Canadians that believe Mexico is part of South America. And they are generally ignorant types of the sort that believe Obama is a Muslim or other similar nonsense.


Here in Toronto I frequently hear people referring to Mexico as being in "South America". I heard the same reference when I was growing up in the US, although that may have changed. 

I don't know of anyone in Toronto who thinks Obama is Muslim, and I don't think it would bother most here if he were. The mayor of Calgary is Muslim, and there have been several Muslim Members of Parliament.


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

ojosazules11 said:


> Here in Toronto I frequently hear people referring to Mexico as being in "South America". I heard the same reference when I was growing up in the US, although that may have changed.


I don't recall ever hearing anyone in the States say that Mexico is located in South America. But what I did hear a lot (and it drove me nuts) was referring to anyone whose native language was Spanish as being "Spanish". This was (and is) true even among residents and citizens of the US whose families are from Latin America. When someone said to me (in English), "I'm Spanish", I often asked them if they were from Madrid or Barcelona!


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## Longford (May 25, 2012)

ojosazules11 said:


> Here in Toronto I frequently hear people referring to Mexico as being in "South America".


If you've heard Canadians say such a thing, I'm not surprised.



ojosazules11 said:


> I heard the same reference when I was growing up in the US, although that may have changed.


I've never heard such a reference in the USA. 



ojosazules11 said:


> I don't know of anyone in Toronto who thinks Obama is Muslim, and I don't think it would bother most here if he were. The mayor of Calgary is Muslim, and there have been several Muslim Members of Parliament.


Many Islamists in Canada. Less than the many in the USA, but a lot nonetheless. As for Mexicans in Canada: they're not particularly welcome by the government, if I'm recalling correctly.


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## ojosazules11 (Nov 3, 2013)

Longford said:


> If you've heard Canadians say such a thing, I'm not surprised.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Maybe the reference to Mexico being in "South America" was a pre-NAFTA Nebraska misconception. Glad to hear no one else is hearing it south of the U.S.-Canada border. Believe me, I hear it a lot, since people know I have a Mexican husband and house: "So when are you off to South America again?" Aaaaarrrrgh!!!

Not sure why you're referring to Islamists, a politically loaded term. My reference was to Muslim Canadian politicians, who have been elected by a wide variety of voters to represent all the constituents in their riding. In my personal experience, with Muslim colleagues, friends and neighbours from various parts of the world, most Muslims in Canada are not Islamist. That there are Islamists in Canada, I don't disagree, but they are not the majority and they have nothing to do with this thread - unless of course they all think Mexico is in South America.

In terms of Mexicans not being welcomed by the Canadian government, I presume, Longford, you are aware of the history behind your statement, but other forum readers may not be. Until 2009, Mexicans did not require a visa to visit Canada. But starting several years prior the word had gotten out in Mexico that if you arrive in Canada and make a refugee claim, you can stay while it worked its way through the system, have a work permit, receive some Social Assistance, have access to health care, etc. Sadly, many who came were not fleeing Mexico due to being in danger, but they invented claims that they were. I personally know several cases which *were* legitimate; some were accepted as bona fide refugees, but some were rejected because the adjudicators presumed it was one more "bogus" case. Because of this large influx of refugee claims the visa requirement was imposed in 2009.


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## Longford (May 25, 2012)

Canada (its government) has been anti-Mexican for some years now (IMO), restricting how many visas are handed out to Mexicans and by the limited visit time allowed to stay. I think the number is less than 20,000 a year. On the other hand, I don't think all that many Mexicans have an interest in living in Canada or visiting for an extended period of time (educational purposes excepted). The USA, obviously, is where most of the Mexican expats and illegals want to be.


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## ojosazules11 (Nov 3, 2013)

Longford said:


> Canada (its government) has been anti-Mexican for some years now (IMO), restricting how many visas are handed out to Mexicans and by the limited visit time allowed to stay. I think the number is less than 20,000 a year. On the other hand, I don't think all that many Mexicans have an interest in living in Canada or visiting for an extended period of time (educational purposes excepted). The USA, obviously, is where most of the Mexican expats and illegals want to be.


Hmmmm. Not sure where you came up with a restriction on the number of visas handed out to Mexicans. Reference, please? 

The only thing I could find is the Canada Seasonal Agricultural Worker Program, which has apparently created an additional 20,000 vacant spots for the 2015 season. This Mexican Government website highlights this development, with hopes that Mexican seasonal workers can capitalize on these additional spots.

2015 Season of the Mexico - Canada Seasonal Agricultural Workers Program begins

In terms of visitor's visas, my understanding is that as long as individuals applying for a visitor's visa meet the requirements in terms of financial solvency and indicators that the applicant is likely to return to their country of origin rather than remaining in Canada, there is no quota or restriction by country or nationality. In terms of time allowed to stay, generally visitors entering Canada are given 6 months to stay. They can apply for an extension of 6 months beyond that. I've even known people who have extended for 6 months twice, for a total of 18 months' visit. I don't think Mexicans are treated any differently than others in this regard.

I've followed this issue fairly closely over the years, so if you find a reliable reference about such a restriction, I'd be interested in knowing about it.


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