# Gap year in Cairo???



## zabadi (Aug 18, 2010)

Hello 

I'm due to go off to university in England in September to learn Arabic (depending on tomorrow's exam results!) but I've recently begun to think that a taking a year out to travel in Arabic-speaking countries would be much more beneficial to my understanding of arabic culture history and language. I have trawled through the internet trying to find info on staying and working in Egypt in particular but so far have found mostly touristy stuff/ rip off gap year tours - could anybody possibly give me a bit of insider advice about setting up life in Cairo and whether i'm being realistic or not? 

All I really want to do is experience and learn about the modern Middle East and immerse myself in Egypt's dialect of Arabic. I would hope to go out to Cairo at the end of Sept and stay in a cheap hostel (for the first few weeks at least), find a job and someone to teach me the basics of the language. I am obviously fluent in English, but also competent in French and German (wee bit of Russian but nothing fantastic) - other than willingness to do a bit of hard graft for subsistence level pay, those are my only skills to offer. Is it possible to find a basic job in hotels or shops just by turning up and asking? 

Also, would it be safe enough for an 18yr old girl to travel and live independently in the city? I realise there are major cultural differences but is it easy to meet people and socialise within the culture?

I've read on this site about other women moving to Egypt and it would be great to hear from anyone in the know - many thanks

X


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## elrasho (May 16, 2010)

Hi Zabadi and welcome to the forum 

Thats an excellent way of learning Arabic, immerse yourself in the surroundings and live among people who speak the very same language you want to learn.

As for living for a year in Cairo, well it is possible to live on very little income as the food here is cheap. I don't think you will be able to find a Hostel that has room for you for 2 weeks, most probably just a week. I tried booking some for 2 week beginning of October but they can only cater for a week.

For finding work, you will need to advertise yourself as to what skills you have. I take it your a native English speaker? There is demand for English tutors to guide children and help them with their studies. What skills do you have apart from languages? If you have enough savings you could quite possibly live in Cairo comfortably for a couple of months whilst your looking for work.

To learn Arabic the best idea would be to go to one of the Arabic schools, some are better than others but I dont know much about these. Im sure someone else can help you with this one. Being a single girl in Cairo can be difficult as men here will pester you, nothing serious, they wont touch or anything.. you'll just get stares and creepy smiles lol To get by I would suggest keep yourself to yourself, not all Egyptian men are like this by the way.

Join groups like Cairo Scholars on Facebook, you may find people in Egypt who are offering Arabic lesson.

Hope this helps


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## Beatle (Aug 14, 2009)

zabadi said:


> Hello
> 
> I'm due to go off to university in England in September to learn Arabic (depending on tomorrow's exam results!) but I've recently begun to think that a taking a year out to travel in Arabic-speaking countries would be much more beneficial to my understanding of arabic culture history and language. I have trawled through the internet trying to find info on staying and working in Egypt in particular but so far have found mostly touristy stuff/ rip off gap year tours - could anybody possibly give me a bit of insider advice about setting up life in Cairo and whether i'm being realistic or not?
> 
> ...


Hi

I have taken a few arabic language courses in Cairo. I decided to take it up as a hobby. I am much older than you but I lived with pre-university/university students whilst staying in Cairo, so I saw some of the issues they encountered. My views for what they are worth are:

(1) I am not sure if you are suggesting spending time in Cairo to learn Arabic instead of taking a degree? I think spending a year in Cairo would be a fantastic way to learn Arabic. But my view is that it's better to obtain a degree than not if you want to work with languages. It would open so many more doors in the longterm.

(2) If you are planning on studying Arabic during a gap year then obviously you would have a huge advantage when you then studied it at degree level. But two things you may wish to consider (a) I am not sure whether all degree courses in the UK are the same but they tend to either start at beginners level or native speaker level. I have a friend who was reasonably competent in Arabic and decided to take a degree in the UK as he couldn't find anyway to progress his language skills. He was bored for the first year as it started at a beginners level and was therefore repetitive; and (b) most language degree courses tend to require you to spend time time in an Arabic speaking country as part of your degree so you would have to repeat your experience.

(3) Most gap year tours are as rip-off in Egypt as far as I can tell. I know people who have come to Cairo on that basis and merely paid extra to have someone organise a language course. Most courses etc can be booked via the internet. If you are interested in taking a course, I suggest you research where you want to study and book a month at that college. If you don't like it, it's very easy to enrol in another college. I frequently enrolled at my language college the day before the next courses were due to start.

(4) The cost of living is very cheap in Cairo and I know students who live relatively cheaply by shopping in local shops/travelling on buses/not going to western restaurants. But to be honest I think as a non-Egyptian you are frequently charged higher prices than Egyptians and unless you have a high standard of Arabic, there's not much you can do about it. So it's possible to live quite cheaply but bear in mind that a basic standard of living in Egypt is a lot different than in the UK.

(5) Unemployment is very high in Cairo and the majority of jobs in the service industry are filled by Egyptians for very low wages. Unless you have some skills that Egyptians can't offer, you will struggle to find employment. I am not sure whether you would be able to get any work teaching English as a foreign language but I would say that's your best bet.

(6) The issue of how safe women are in Cairo is a much debated subject on this forum and you might want to look at previous threads on this topic. I shared a flat with two 18 year old Western girls for a while and although they were subject to the same staring/comments as most women in Cairo, they didn't seem to have any particular problems. BUT we all took precautions to ensure our safety so we lived in accomodation which had been vetted by the college/they would often travel in groups of two or more etc. We obviously knew a large number of students at the college so we would go out together in the evenings/go sightseeing etc. The college could help us with doctors/legal questions etc. I think if you didn't have that support network when you first arrived, it would be much more difficult.

(7) If you don't go to a language school, it's not impossible to learn arabic but it's more difficult. I studied in Italy as part of my degree and I think it would have been much easier to have just worked in Italy for a year learning the language than it would in Cairo (in terms of integrating in the culture). You have to be cautious about offers of help from men and it can be very difficult to meet Egyptian women. The only Egyptian women I have met are sisters of Egyptian guys I have got to know through Western friends. Having said that, once you do make friends with egyptians you would find that there are some incredibly generous and warmhearted Egyptians who take great delight in showing you different cultural experiences.

Cairo is a crazy city but I love it and most of the students I know loved it. Many Arabic scholars will tell you that egyptian arabic is one of the best dialects to learn as it has historically been the dialect used in the film industry so it is very widely understood in the Arab world. However I do know some students who have arrived in Cairo to study Arabic and have hated it, so it might be worth having a back-up plan...

Long answer. Hope this helps. I wish you all the best with those exam results.


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## cinnamonroll (May 31, 2010)

I am a language nerd and I would say that living in a country is the BEST way to learn a language. If you were to return to UK to study a degree in Arabic as a foreign language, you would soar through effortlessly and your knowledge would be way more advanced than your peers.

My question is: Why Egypt?

Syria is a wonder place with a beautiful capital city and lovely people. If you play be the rules (read them carefully before you go) You will be much safer than in Cairo. This would be a great way to really get to know Arabic culture and language. I have never been to Jordan or Lebanon, but they are said to be great and I plan to go this year. I think Lebanon is the most liberal, but not safe.

Cairo is OK as long as you are careful and keep your wits about you.

There are a few foreign universities in Cairo. You would be able to meet up with other students and like mined people there, if you are able to get involved. 

Lots of young people go to uni in London and end up living in Hackney, Whitechapel (as I did) or worse. Cairo is nothing compared to those places!!!
I say go for it.


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## cinnamonroll (May 31, 2010)

I am a language nerd and I would say that living in a country is the BEST way to learn a language. If you were to return to UK to study a degree in Arabic as a foreign language, you would soar through effortlessly and your knowledge would be way more advanced than your peers.

My question is: Why Egypt?

Syria is a wonderful place with a beautiful capital city and lovely people. If you play be the rules (read them carefully before you go) You will be much safer than in Cairo. This would be a great way to really get to know Arabic culture and language. I have never been to Jordan or Lebanon, but they are said to be great and I plan to go this year. I think Lebanon is the most liberal, but not safe.

Cairo is OK as long as you are careful and keep your wits about you.

There are a few foreign universities in Cairo. You would be able to meet up with other students and like mined people there, if you are able to get involved. 

Lots of young people go to uni in London and end up living in Hackney, Whitechapel (as I did) or worse. Cairo is nothing compared to those places!!!
I say go for it.


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## cinnamonroll (May 31, 2010)

Oops why did I post twice? Sorry guys!
Just wanted to add: Wherever you go in the Middle East, if you are alone and a woman, people will think it's odd. In many Middle Eastern countries, women at any age are not even allowed to go and but milk on their own. In Syria there is much more freedom, but dating is practically illegal (bummer as the men are very sweet-sorry had to say that). 
You could choose to face this challenge or find a study group/buddy to travel with. I don't want to put you off as I am an independent female traveller and have been since I was 18. I have always met other female travellers, but it's a big culture shock. 
Generally being part of something makes a big difference. If you were to sign up for a course you would have a social group right away. 
Have you looked into doing your degree overseas?


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## Beatle (Aug 14, 2009)

cinnamonroll said:


> My question is: Why Egypt?
> 
> Syria is a wonderful place with a beautiful capital city and lovely people. If you play be the rules (read them carefully before you go) You will be much safer than in Cairo. This would be a great way to really get to know Arabic culture and language. I have never been to Jordan or Lebanon, but they are said to be great and I plan to go this year. I think Lebanon is the most liberal, but not safe.


I looked at some of the other options. Jordan is meant to be horrendously expensive. The benefit of Cairo is that you can find private arabic tuition for a relatively low sum but it's apparently much more expensive in Jordan. I looked at taking a course in a private language school in Jordan - not only was the cost high but you have to take accomodation provided by the school and females had a curfew of 10pm! But I know people who have studied in Syria who have loved it.

Lebanon is meant to be a fantastic country but as you say there are safety issues.

There are people who choose to study in Morocco or Algeria but those dialects aren't widely understood in the Arab world.

I met a Canadian who spoke fantastic Arabic recently but it turned out he had studied on the West Bank. Possibly also a tad unsafe...


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## zabadi (Aug 18, 2010)

Hello again! 
Thank you all so much for providing me with all this information - it's so helpful. The good news is that the exam results were fine, so I might be able to get my course at the university deffered until sept 2011, which would give me the whole year out to travel in the arabic world. I agree with you Beatle that an actual language degree is good to have in the long term but the colloquial language is what really interests me and I think living for a while abroad would be the most natural way to pick it up and ensure that what I get out of university study will be maximized. It sounds stupid, but I worry that if I head off to do this degree now I'll end up writing essays and reeling off vocab just to meet the deadline and get it over with rather than for myself, if you know what I mean! Hardcore study might kill the passion for it  

So yes it's great to know that the plan is not impossible or crazy! I have been doing a bit more research myself on the arabic schools in Cairo and definitely think now that it would be the best way to meet people in the beginning. A lot of them also seem to be amazingly good value - I would only ask if most of them are reputable??? Is it pot luck with this kind of thing or does it pay more to pay more? In terms of getting a job I have decent enought experience teaching english to children (in India - it was no TEFL course but I loved it!) - so english tutoring would be perfect if I could get it. I suppose it's a matter of asking around universities and schools? 

As for the culture shock aspect, I know its a big change (have actually been in Cairo once for a day - very intense!) and that there is a very unsavoury side to it. But I think the arab countries haven't benefitted from the impression tourists get from aggressive hawkers and the like - it's reassuring to know that you all have bypassed the veneer and gotten to know people. That's honestly what I would love - to skip the tours and talk to people, however challenging that may be!
Cinnamonroll - I'm not sure why Egypt and Cairo are in my head; I think because the tourism there would perhaps slightly improve my chances of finding some sort of job. Ironically this at the same time reduces the potential for improving the arabic! I would love to travel around the other arab countires and I reckon I would definitely get to Syria eventually but probably not for very long. The history of the country is incredible though - I imagine there's loads to see there! Are there many arabic schools in Damascus? Do you think it's nicer than Egypt then?! 
Beatle - I'd say you're right about the West Bank!

Again, thank you so much for this help it's a lifesaver - all other websites just want to sell the whiplash gap tour so it's amazing to hear from real people with experience living in these countries

x


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## Beatle (Aug 14, 2009)

zabadi said:


> Hello again!
> Thank you all so much for providing me with all this information - it's so helpful. The good news is that the exam results were fine, so I might be able to get my course at the university deffered until sept 2011, which would give me the whole year out to travel in the arabic world. I agree with you Beatle that an actual language degree is good to have in the long term but the colloquial language is what really interests me and I think living for a while abroad would be the most natural way to pick it up and ensure that what I get out of university study will be maximized. It sounds stupid, but I worry that if I head off to do this degree now I'll end up writing essays and reeling off vocab just to meet the deadline and get it over with rather than for myself, if you know what I mean! Hardcore study might kill the passion for it
> 
> So yes it's great to know that the plan is not impossible or crazy! I have been doing a bit more research myself on the arabic schools in Cairo and definitely think now that it would be the best way to meet people in the beginning. A lot of them also seem to be amazingly good value - I would only ask if most of them are reputable??? Is it pot luck with this kind of thing or does it pay more to pay more? In terms of getting a job I have decent enought experience teaching english to children (in India - it was no TEFL course but I loved it!) - so english tutoring would be perfect if I could get it. I suppose it's a matter of asking around universities and schools?
> ...


Congratulations on getting the exam results you needed :clap2:

I think there is a definite advantage in learning one of the dialects. Fusha is about as much use as a chocolate teapot on the streets of Egypt. The few times I have used it, Egyptians tend to roll about laughing. I gave in and started studying ammiyya as well. So I don't think it's a stupid plan and it could definitely give you a head start in your degree. You will find in Cairo there are a lot of university students who are either based in Cairo for their third year of university or are studying in Cairo during university holidays to try and improve their language skills.

Another option is of course Alexandria which is a quieter city - there seems to be quite a few students based there as well.

In terms of language schools, I randomly chose ILI off the internet the first time I headed to Cairo. It's based in Mohandiseen. It turned out to be a really good language school and at least one of the english universities sends their students there as part of their arabic degree. But ILI is not cheap (although since they have a regular influx of students from all over the world, it's a good way to get to know people). Other options I have heard recommended include AUC (expensive though) and 4uarabic school. Don't pay huge deposits over the internet. 

It's probably better to enrol in a reputable language school for a month (which should then help you with accomodation etc) and after you have been there for a few weeks, you can look for cheaper accomodation/different language schools etc. 

You would probably need a TEFL qualification though to teach English - I would think it's probably a minimum requirement unless you want to work for really low wages. Bear in mind that wages are quite low even with a TEFL qualification.

Good luck. It sounds like an exciting time for you. If I had a chance to repeat my undergraduate years, I would definitely take an Arabic degree.


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## MensEtManus (Jul 30, 2009)

Alexandria might be a quieter city, but it is far less tolerant than Cairo. 

If you are dark skinned and unveiled you'll be labeled "arbaa reesha" a derogatory phrase for a cross (aka christian). If you are white skinned and unveiled you'll be labeled "tourist." 

In terms of pay grades, wages in Alexandria are considered "peanuts" relative to Cairo and/or red sea (Hurghada, El Gouna, Sharm El Sheikh, etc.).

As mentioned earlier, unemployment is quite high for females. Administrative jobs in Alexandria (secretaries, tele-sales, etc.) typically have a base salary of 300 LE per month with a max of 1000 LE per month. 300LE would be for females without a college degree and 1000LE could be for a female holding a college degree and has maybe 5 years of work experience under her belt.

Having said so, several of the fancy restaurants/cafes in Cairo and some in Alexandria have foreign hostesses. In Alexandria those salaries can go up to 1500LE/month. I am not sure about Cairo, but typically Cairo salaries are 300% more than Alexandria. In short, I agree with the posts earlier, something that deals with tourism is your best bet for a job.


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## cinnamonroll (May 31, 2010)

Congrats on your results! 

If you are dark skinned and unveiled you'll be labeled "arbaa reesha" a derogatory phrase for a cross (aka christian). If you are white skinned and unveiled you'll be labeled "tourist." :clap2: This really made me laugh!

I know someone (TEFL qualified) who rocked up to a hotel and managed to get work for about 2 months teaching the staff for about 170LE/hour. There are millions of language schools in Cairo, so I'm sure you would find work. It's a funny little equation which goes something like this:

Success in Arabic = (natural talent x enthusiasm) + (time commitment + teacher's skill) - (time spent in ex-pat clubs x absorbing BS spouted by those who think they know everything) - language vampires x time wasters

Cairo is going to be a fun place for you stay for a year. Syria would be less fun, but you would learn more. I think I have a thing about Syria because when I was there, people were so honest and kind. Here, you have to count your change EVERYWHERE you are. EVERYONE in Cairo is out to rip you off and that's a little frustrating. However, it is much safer than many places in UK and very culturally rich. I live in Cairo and I appreciate the freedom we have here.


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## elrasho (May 16, 2010)

MensEtManus said:


> Alexandria might be a quieter city, but it is far less tolerant than Cairo.
> 
> If you are dark skinned and unveiled you'll be labeled "arbaa reesha" a derogatory phrase for a cross (aka christian). If you are white skinned and unveiled you'll be labeled "tourist."
> 
> ...


Are those wages accurate? they seem terribly low. Rent for an apartment alone is 1500LE a month in Cairo


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## MensEtManus (Jul 30, 2009)

Yes they are accurate. Those are the norms across my industry. You can even hire engineers with good grades that will work for 800LE/month. The difficult labor to find include: plumbers, electricians, carpenters, etc. Those folks expect 100-200LE per day. 

Alexandria has incredibly lowers wages than Cairo, but it also goes hand in hand with the living expenses. There are apartments here for 200LE/month where you can find 5-6 folks living inside it. As salaries go up so will eventually the living expenses and we will no longer enjoy buying cheap items. 

it just means that from the perspective of most companies in Alex, why pay more if there is such a huge supply of unemployed females.

To help paint the bigger picture, females (in Alexandria) in the workforce tend to find a job for one of the following reasons:
1) Hunt for a husband
2) Obtain a salary to provide for her lazy father/guardian who uses the girl as a source of income

Girls start work as early as 14 years of age and tend to leave work around 25 years of age. Girls past 25 years of age are in the critical zone of having to find a husband before it is too late. After 30, expect the girl to never leave her job as she has slim to no chances of finding a husband. 

(all above statements are clearly generalizations based on my experiences, so let's not get into it too much...) 

Anyhow, as they typically say, if there is a will, there is a way. I'm sure the original poster will figure something out. As I said, tourism pays big $$$$.


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## Beatle (Aug 14, 2009)

elrasho said:


> Are those wages accurate? they seem terribly low. Rent for an apartment alone is 1500LE a month in Cairo


Wages are very low throughout Egypt unless you are on an expat package. Egyptians tend to live at home until they get married and the sort of flats you are looking at renting are well out of the typical Egyptians pay range. I know Egyptian lawyers who work for the government who earn around LE4000 per month, lower court judges who earn LE4000-5000, private practice lawyers who earn around LE8000 and university professors who earn around LE2000 per month. Some of these salaries are considered to be good by Egyptian standards.


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