# File or Not



## NeoG (Jul 10, 2015)

Hello, 

I'd like to ask or hear some thoughts on what I should do. 
I'm a US-Saudi Dual, Born in the US, raised there for roughly half my life. living and working in Saudi currently. It came to my attention about 3 months back that while i'd owe nothing, i still have to file. The problem? 

In the US you can be a dual, in Saudi you cannot be. Everything about me here is me in the Saudi system as a Saudi. I am not an American in Saudi at all, on anything, no SSN, no TIN, ergo no W-2's or 1099's and such. I pay all my obligated Saudi fee's (over here we have social security GOSI and unemployment insurance SANDIP) 

February 2013 i left the US for Saudi to look for work, after a year of finding no work in the US, and was unemployed (never worked) before those years, was only a college student. I started working at one job from March to February 2014, then had a new job which i'm still at today.

In both jobs I am well below the foreign income exclusion limit. However here is where i get hung up, the FBAR. Not only are the penalties are so onerous and ruinous financially, but also could very easily potentially put me in a bind here in Saudi and legally-speaking will be forced to choose which citizenship to keep. 

I late-filed for an extension this month in a fit of panic and mailed it. will be unlikely to be accepted as it was late already.

Now I have 4 options I think. 

1. backfile for the last 2 years including FBAR's. 
2. Late-file this year without FBAR and hope they don't ask
3. Drop it all, backfile if and when i return to living in the United States. 
4. renounce US citizenship. 

I love both countries (yes despite all the flaws Saudi has). I want to maintain my citizenship. I have family that says i'm way over-thinking it all. I'm going to later this year seek some professional advice and guidance for my specific situation, because I really don't want to end up on the wrong-side here.


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## Nononymous (Jul 12, 2011)

To some extent you are overthinking it. Your filing US taxes and FBARs does not involve the Saudi government - they would know nothing about it - so it should not put your citizenship at risk. I don't claim to know anything about Saudi citizenship law, but I'm not sure why filing these reports would instantly cause problems for you - it doesn't automatically flag you as a dual citizen, you could be a "US person" with a green card.

Since you sent off the application to file late, you don't really have the option of ignoring it. You could, but you've put yourself on the radar, so maybe this is not a good idea.

Don't panic about FBAR fines, no evidence that they're being collected against ordinary taxpayers who weren't aware of the requirement. 

What are the Saudi banks doing for FATCA - will they be quizzing all their customers about citizenship? 

I would also get some legal advice about the citizenship situation. Since (almost) everyone born in the US is a US citizen automatically, any Saudi government official who sees your place of birth - for example, when you apply for a Saudi passport - would assume that you also have US citizenship, no?


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## NeoG (Jul 10, 2015)

But when i give the FBAR and i fill in the account number. do they not then ping those accounts for data? Plus I have a hard time remember the exact 'max' amount in each account. 


Saudi Banks simply asked what your citizenship is, I default to Saudi, because that's what i am in Saudi. the only thing is on my ID for 'place of birth' it will say America. There isn't an option for dual, there is Saudi, American, British, Non. 

My main concern is that getting ping'd and causing issues. 

Again later this year, I will need to find some professional expertise about it.

and even then, I don't get W-2's, so i dunno what would be acceptable to them to match with.


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## Nononymous (Jul 12, 2011)

NeoG said:


> But when i give the FBAR and i fill in the account number. do they not then ping those accounts for data? Plus I have a hard time remember the exact 'max' amount in each account.


They don't ping the accounts. You report the high balance, they file the information away and probably never do anything with it.

Furthermore, it's "US persons" who need to file this, which includes individuals who are not US citizens, so filing FBARs shouldn't automatically identify you as a US citizen.



> Saudi Banks simply asked what your citizenship is, I default to Saudi, because that's what i am in Saudi. the only thing is on my ID for 'place of birth' it will say America. There isn't an option for dual, there is Saudi, American, British, Non.


Well, anyone who sees your US birthplace should assume that you're a US citizen. But if the bank only put you down as Saudi, then hopefully you won't be subject to FATCA reporting, so it would be easier to stay off the US radar, should you choose to go that route. 



> My main concern is that getting ping'd and causing issues.
> 
> Again later this year, I will need to find some professional expertise about it.
> 
> and even then, I don't get W-2's, so i dunno what would be acceptable to them to match with.


That's not really how it works. You report your foreign income amounts to the US, you don't supply any documentary proof unless requested at a later date. Every country has its own forms that do not look like US forms.


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## ammybenj (Jul 11, 2015)

NeoG said:


> But when i give the FBAR and i fill in the account number. do they not then ping those accounts for data? Plus I have a hard time remember the exact 'max' amount in each account.
> 
> 
> Saudi Banks simply asked what your citizenship is, I default to Saudi, because that's what i am in Saudi. the only thing is on my ID for 'place of birth' it will say America. There isn't an option for dual, there is Saudi, American, British, Non.
> ...


I think now some points are clear to me. I want to if I never been in Saudi or maybe any country where I want to keep my money, So how I could t this legally?
I am not in hurry, I wait and putt right step at least from my side.


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## FFMralph (Dec 22, 2012)

As a US citizen you are required to report your world wide income regardless of how other countries handle your citizenship. 

But be serious, if you never plan on returning to the US for residence or visitation, then just throw your passport in the drawer and forget about it.


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## ammybenj (Jul 11, 2015)

Yeah...! Point to be noted..


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