# Hello - newbie here



## callie (Jun 15, 2012)

Hello everyone :wave:

I'm new and have been reading the forum with great intrest. My other half and I are contemplating a move to Mallorca within the next 18 months or so and have found the information and experience shared here really useful.

If it's ok, I'd like to summarise our situation and my understanding of the CURRENT 'rules' of such a move and ask for any comments/advice (I've already grasped the fact that things are in a state of flux and therefore subject to change and also the precise details can vary according to the local authorities custom and practise ).

So - we are both UK citizens with full NI records, not married but will marry if we move - as it seems to make life easier. We are not of state retirement age but I am only 2 years off (OH has a few years to go). I am currently in receipt of 2 pensions (one NHS and one private company) and am not working. If we move neither of us plan to work at all so OH will effectively be my dependant until he is of pensionable age.

Our current plan is to try to rent somewhere in Mallorca for 6 months next year to a) see if the lifestyle/climate suit us; b) explore areas of the Island that we don't already know; c) look at properties for sale and d) acquire non-resident NIE's and open a non-resident bank account - both of which would require converting to resident status once/if we make a permanent move.

Thinking further ahead and assuming we decide to make the move, we would need to apply for residencia which will require evidence of income and health cover. As the 'new' system for this is still settling in, hopefully things will be a bit clearer by the time we come to make any life changing decisions and we will know (more or less) what the requirements are for this.

With regard to tax - my understanding is that once 'fiscally resident' in Spain (ie 183 days) I would need to contact HMRC to tell them and start the process of 'opting out' of the UK tax system and get my pensions taxed via the Spanish system. It would seem that some people have more luck with this than others so I need to be prepared to be double-taxed until it can get sorted out 

Does that sound about right or am I making some glaring obvious mistakes in my understanding of the situation.

Many thanks in advance

Callie


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## thrax (Nov 13, 2008)

I think you've got it pretty much correct. However, with regard to the non-resident NIE you may find that your bank account is frozen after three months since some banks follow a rule that says you must have a residency NIE for the account to remain functional. It happened to us and the really nice guy at the bank said he didn't know why it happened either but it did. Unless I am mistaken, and others on here who have more than the one brain cell I enjoy, you might as well opt for the residency NIE from the beginning as the number doesn't change if you upgrade from non-resident to resident. If you decide to move back to UK because it didn't work out for you having a Spanish resident NIE won't mean a thing in the UK. As you have already stated the real deal is how long you stay in the country before you start being liable to tax here.


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## callie (Jun 15, 2012)

Thanks Thrax - that's really good advice.

So I guess it's possible to get a residents NIE without having a permanent Spanish address then?


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

callie said:


> Thanks Thrax - that's really good advice.
> 
> So I guess it's possible to get a residents NIE without having a permanent Spanish address then?


what do you mean by a permanent address?

you obviously need to be living here...........


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## callie (Jun 15, 2012)

xabiachica - what I meant was we're hoping to get the NIE sorted when we'll just be renting temporarily in Mallorca during our 'trial' visit - so a short term let. 

At that stage we won't be buying anywhere but will need the NIE to open a local bank account in order to make day to day life easier during the trial period. Also thinking ahead if we do decide to buy we will need the bank account to get my pension paid into it for a few months so that when we need to apply for residencia then (under the new conditions) I can prove my income as I'm guessing they won't take UK bank statements into consideration.


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## 90199 (Mar 21, 2010)

I doubt that the HMRC will allow you to transfer your N.H.S. pension to the Spanish tax system. We are both in receipt of Govt. pensions, which are not transferable, the Spanish tax people accept this and we are not subject to double taxation. I am at the moment trying to get my O.A.P. transferred for tax purposes in Spain, if I succeed, I will still be under the Spanish threshold, so financially it will benefit me.

Residencia is well worth having. We in the Canary Isles get a huge discount on internal Ferry and air fares throughout Spain. I believe that you may also in the Baleares.


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## callie (Jun 15, 2012)

Thanks so much Hepa - I'll check out the NHS pension transfer thing & post back as it may be useful for others to know.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

callie said:


> xabiachica - what I meant was we're hoping to get the NIE sorted when we'll just be renting temporarily in Mallorca during our 'trial' visit - so a short term let.
> 
> At that stage we won't be buying anywhere but will need the NIE to open a local bank account in order to make day to day life easier during the trial period. Also thinking ahead if we do decide to buy we will need the bank account to get my pension paid into it for a few months so that when we need to apply for residencia then (under the new conditions) I can prove my income as I'm guessing they won't take UK bank statements into consideration.


OK - I guess you _could_ get the resident cert while on a trial visit - but there's really no point

you can open a non-res bank account often with just your passport & then change it to a resident one when you actually _are _resident - if they want a NIE, you can get just a NIE

I believe that they will accept UK statements/proof of pension for the proof of income requirement - at least that's what I understood from a friend who runs a legal firm here who took some clients for their resident NIEs in the past week or so - & the S1 for proof of health cover

you won't be taxed twice, no matter what, providing you fill in the correct forms, correctly


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## 90199 (Mar 21, 2010)

One other consideration. We do not have our pensions paid into a Spanish bank. we use a U.K. bank we let the pensions accrue and transfer the monies, when the exchange rates are beneficial to us. We use a currency exchange firm in London, who incidentally, give excellent exchange rates and commission free transfers of over £3000. 

Usually transferred to my Spanish bank the following day.

For proof of income, the Spanish tax office here readily accepted a copy of our P60. I would also imagine any Bank statements would be acceptable.

However different areas of Spain have different interpretations of the law.

I was in Mallorca last year, I noticed that all the road signs were in Welsh couldn't understand one word


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## callie (Jun 15, 2012)

xabiachica said:


> OK - I guess you _could_ get the resident cert while on a trial visit - but there's really no point
> 
> you can open a non-res bank account often with just your passport & then change it to a resident one when you actually _are _resident - if they want a NIE, you can get just a NIE
> 
> ...



Thanks very mnuch Xabiachica - that's good news about the UK bank statement possibility - I'll check again a bit nearer the time when things (may) have settled down a bit. And yes the tax thing will be complicated but I'm sure it will work out in the end (ever optimistic) .

I completely take your point about not applying for a resident cert on a visit & that wasn't part of the plan - what we were planning was to apply for NIE's to facilitate banking etc. and Thrax raised the issue of a non-resident bank account having the potential of the bank closing it after 3 months if it's opened with a non-resident NIE. So I'm wondering if it is possible to get anything other than a non-resident NIE during the initial visit.


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## callie (Jun 15, 2012)

What a brilliant source of info this forum is - Thanks Hepa - I've added Currency Exchange Firms to the OH's list of research areas - do the forum rules allow you to share the name of the one you use? 

And yes - the question of whether to brush up our Castillian, to start on Catalan or just to give in and go straight for Mallorquin language lessons is a challenge - but all part of the adventure


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

callie said:


> Thanks very mnuch Xabiachica - that's good news about the UK bank statement possibility - I'll check again a bit nearer the time when things (may) have settled down a bit. And yes the tax thing will be complicated but I'm sure it will work out in the end (ever optimistic) .
> 
> I completely take your point about not applying for a resident cert on a visit & that wasn't part of the plan - what we were planning was to apply for NIE's to facilitate banking etc. and Thrax raised the issue of a non-resident bank account having the potential of the bank closing it after 3 months if it's opened with a non-resident NIE. So I'm wondering if it is possible to get anything other than a non-resident NIE during the initial visit.


non-resident bank accounts don't just get closed/frozen after 3 months for no reason - they must have realised that thrax was resident & hadn't kept them informed - obviously true non-residents can keep accounts running for years 

you can't get a resident account unless you have a resident cert

you can't get a resident cert without proof of income & healthcare provision

if you are planning to use the S1 for the healthcare provision proof then you are effectively 'signing off' UK healthcare & then won't be able to (legally) use the NHS except for emergencies


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## callie (Jun 15, 2012)

xabiachica said:


> non-resident bank accounts don't just get closed/frozen after 3 months for no reason - they must have realised that thrax was resident & hadn't kept them informed - obviously true non-residents can keep accounts running for years
> 
> you can't get a resident account unless you have a resident cert
> 
> ...


Thank you  that's really, really useful info . 

Even though we could get the S1 we had planned to take out Health Insurance at least for the first couple of years till we knew we'd settled. And the way things are changing who knows what the situation will be when/if we make the move


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## 90199 (Mar 21, 2010)

I believe I can provide you with a link seeing that you have asked.

Foreign Money & Currency Exchange Services, Euro Exchange, UK Currency Converter :: SmartCurrencyExchange.com

Very professional firm.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

callie said:


> Thank you  that's really, really useful info .
> 
> Even though we could get the S1 we had planned to take out Health Insurance at least for the first couple of years till we knew we'd settled. And the way things are changing who knows what the situation will be when/if we make the move


well, exactly - who knows 

I'd use the S1 though, if I were you - why pay for something when you don't have to/already have (effectively)

also, private ins wouldn't cover any pre-existing conditions


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## 90199 (Mar 21, 2010)

Don't forget if you are one Winter Fuel allowance in the U.K. it will continue when you emigrate.

I get it here and we haven't used heating for two years!!

There are some photos on the below link, of the small island we live on.


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## Solwriter (Jan 10, 2012)

Hepa said:


> Don't forget if you are one Winter Fuel allowance in the U.K. it will continue when you emigrate.


But only if it is claimed initially from a UK address I believe.

So if someone takes up residence in Spain before they reach state pension age...
(My OH missed out this way).
The WFA isn't much, but it's something to factor into timing calculations.


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## callie (Jun 15, 2012)

Solwriter said:


> But only if it is claimed initially from a UK address I believe.
> 
> So if someone takes up residence in Spain before they reach state pension age...
> (My OH missed out this way).
> The WFA isn't much, but it's something to factor into timing calculations.


I would imagine that by the time we're all sorted I will be of state pensionable age - assuming the don't change the goalposts again 

Thanks for the links Hepa - your Island is part of the Canaries we've never visited but it looks fantastic. Do you have to go to one of the bigger Islands to get all of your 'foreigner' stuff sorted out?

I take your point about the S1 Xabiachica - I suppose if it all goes horrendously wrong & we have to come back to live in the UK for some reason, once we'd established UK residency again (via tax, pensions, having somewhere to live etc.) we would be entitled to NHS care if needed.


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## 90199 (Mar 21, 2010)

callie said:


> Thanks for the links Hepa - your Island is part of the Canaries we've never visited but it looks fantastic. Do you have to go to one of the bigger Islands to get all of your 'foreigner' stuff sorted out?


The only time we have to fly to Tenerife is for highly specialised health treatment, but the air fare is paid by the state.

Otherwise we are self contained. We do however make trips to Gran Canaria to re-furbish on socks, shirts and tea bags etc., the flight is 45 minutes and we usually stay for a week.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Solwriter said:


> But only if it is claimed initially from a UK address I believe.
> 
> So if someone takes up residence in Spain before they reach state pension age...
> (My OH missed out this way).
> The WFA isn't much, but it's something to factor into timing calculations.


I think it's age 60 at the moment, rather than retirement age? You don't have to be a pensioner to claim it.


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## callie (Jun 15, 2012)

Alcalaina said:


> I think it's age 60 at the moment, rather than retirement age? You don't have to be a pensioner to claim it.


Sadly it changed in this years budget - from the DWP website referring to people who have NOT received t before:



[B_]Qualifying for Winter Fuel Payment in the future[/B]
If you have not yet reached State Pension age, the following table explains when you will qualify for a Winter Fuel Payment.

Winter Fuel Payment qualifying dates : Must be born on or before this date to qualify


Winter 2012/13 : 5 July 1951

Winter 2013/14 : 5 January 1952

Winter 2014/15 : 5 July 1952 _


So I was born in MAy 52 which means I won't be able to claim till winter 2014/15 or not if we've already moved


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## callie (Jun 15, 2012)

Hello again

I am bumping my thread as our plans are starting to come together for our initial fact-fiinding/ reconnaissance trip.

So I was wondering if anyone had any contacts/recommendations for finding a property to rent on Mallorca for 2 months - starting February 2013. Exact location doesnt matter so much as good access to main roads so that we can explore those parts of the island we know less well.

Any suggestions gratefully received
many thanks

Callie


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Hi Callie,
Can I suggest that you open a new thread for each topic you want to treat. On this thread for example you've already got info about bank accounts, winter fuel allowance and residency papers. 
Also, if you give a title that reflects your question, more people who know the answer to your query will be attracted to the thread. And it will be easier to find for others who are looking for the same info.


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## callie (Jun 15, 2012)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Hi Callie,
> Can I suggest that you open a new thread for each topic you want to treat. On this thread for example you've already got info about bank accounts, winter fuel allowance and residency papers.
> Also, if you give a title that reflects your question, more people who know the answer to your query will be attracted to the thread. And it will be easier to find for others who are looking for the same info.


Sorry - only just seen this - yes will do - thanks for the advice


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## dunmovin (Dec 19, 2008)

xabiachica said:


> what do you mean by a permanent address?
> 
> you obviously need to be living here...........



The rules may have changed since we moved here, but we got our NIE through the Spanish consulate in Hong Kong and it has been always accepted.... that was in 2007


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

dunmovin said:


> The rules may have changed since we moved here, but we got our NIE through the Spanish consulate in Hong Kong and it has been always accepted.... that was in 2007


you can only get a NIE from a consulate now for the specific purpose of buying or inheriting property

obviously this is different to a resident cert.


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