# need help!



## kelly and lee (Jul 12, 2012)

*help!* My partner and I and our 4 children, ranging from ages 2-14 are looking t o move to spain. Preferably the surrounding areas of marbella.

We have no clue where to start, applying for jobs, house rentals, laws, taxes and schools ect. in fact we haven't an idea about anything as yet so would be very grateful if someone could help us with the information we need. 

Obviously a lot of research needs to be done before we make up our minds completely as we can't just uproute the children without thoroughly going through everything that needs to be done.

any information will be greatly appreciated.
thanks kelly x


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

kelly and lee said:


> *help!* My partner and I and our 4 children, ranging from ages 2-14 are looking t o move to spain. Preferably the surrounding areas of marbella.
> 
> We have no clue where to start, applying for jobs, house rentals, laws, taxes and schools ect. in fact we haven't an idea about anything as yet so would be very grateful if someone could help us with the information we need.
> 
> ...


Before you move, you need to make sure that you have contracted employment. so that when you apply for your residency, you are able to prove income and that you have healthcare cover. Have a read thru some of the posts on here and you'll see that its pretty much impossible right now. Spain has the highest unemployment in Europe.

Gone are the days of simply moving over, getting a bit of work and living the dream. Its no longer cheap and you need to be pretty much fluent in spanish to find work - even then you are up against Spanish locals and bilingual expats. There are no financial benefits, child allowances or healthcare cover, unless you have an employment contract and you cant take your UK benefits with you. Its a harsh place right now and many expats are returning to the safety of the UK nanny state.

Aslo your 14yo would really have to go to an international school, which isnt cheap, as state schools in Spain are all Spanish and they dont follow the UK curriculum

Jo xxx


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## kelly and lee (Jul 12, 2012)

wow! i guess that's the harsh reality of the world at present. Could you recommend a place where isn't too expensive to live and it isn't so hard to find work? :spit:


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## kelly and lee (Jul 12, 2012)

the plan would be for me to stay home with children and my partner to work. He's qualified in many things. to list a few, horticulture, HVC license, window tinter and car wrapper. So we were kind of hoping that because he has a range of qualifications that work wouldn't be too hard to find as its very scarce here in the UK x


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Sorry to be the bearer of bad tidings.
I live in the area to which you say you would like to relocate. Unemployment is well over 34% so the likelihood of you finding work is frankly close to zero.
Only yesterday the Spanish Government announced measures which will raise prices and in the short run create even more unemployment.
Think about it: almost six million Spanish people out of work, most of them qualified....what chance, realistically, has a non-Spanish-speaking immigrant of finding legal work?
The only people who should consider emigrating to Spain are those who can run their businesses from home anywhere in the world or have sound businesses they can commute to and from, professionals with secure contracts and good salaries and retired people with good pension and other incomes.
Young single people with no dependents and nothing to lose might wish to try their luck but few will find suitable work.
Life in Spain can be good and I can well understand why you would like to live here. But you have children and at this stage in the economic crisis Spain is not the place to look for work.
You may get a post saying 'Go for it...we did it and have never looked back'. These posts are frequently but not exclusively from people who have been here for a short time. Many 'old-timers' have packed up and gone back to the UK. 
Anyone who tells you to 'Go for it' should imo be prepared to guarantee you financially for a year.
The village where we live is normally quiet even in the holiday season but this year is unnaturally so. I've noticed that there are fewer tourists in Estepona. Many bars and restaurants are closing in the Marbella - Estepona area.
Spain doesn't have such a generous welfare system as the UK. Free health care is not automatic and there are no generous unemployment benefits,Housing Benefit or Tax credits as in the UK.
The best thing you could do is to have a holiday combined with fact-finding and see for yourself how things are here.
Sorry to be negative but I'm sure others will confirm what I have said.

Have just read your post...your partner's qualifications may not be recognised in Spain and there are tens of thousands of Spaniards who can do the same jobs .....in Spanish.

As for your question about 'cheap places to live'....places are usually cheap for a reason, such as underperforming economy, poor infrastructure, high crime rate and other undesirable factors.
Language is a real barrier in nearly every country apart from places like Holland and Germany where English is widely spoken.
Bulgaria and Romania are 'cheap' in the sense that you can buy an impressive-looking property cheap as chips. But work may be a different matter.
I used to live in Prague which until recently was a cheap place to live. After three years of finding out why it was so cheap we left and moved to Spain.


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## kelly and lee (Jul 12, 2012)

thank you very much for your honest opinion! i really appreciate that.

Looks like we will have to reconsider the country we intend to live.

thanks again x


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## kelly and lee (Jul 12, 2012)

thanks again. we are just brain storming at the minute. getting as much info as physically possible to help in deciding with path to take, x


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

kelly and lee said:


> the plan would be for me to stay home with children and my partner to work. He's qualified in many things. to list a few, horticulture, HVC license, window tinter and car wrapper. So we were kind of hoping that because he has a range of qualifications that work wouldn't be too hard to find as its very scarce here in the UK x


However hard it is in the UK its infinitely harder in Spain and that would be if he were fluent. The only thing that he may be able to do is HGV for a UK company that travels to Spain - maybe then you could live there and he could commute??? But you also have to take into account school fees (international schools are around 4000€ a year excluding books and uniform).
You also need to know that in Spain, unemployment benefits are time limited and only available to those who have paid into the Spanish system for a good few months. So coming over and taking work form those who are truly desperate, wont make you popular.

seriously, now isnt the time. If it were, I would be typing this from sunny Spain instead of rainy worthing! I'd go back to Spain in a heart beat, but my husband had to commute, the school fees were extortionate and our house in the UK lost the tenants - so we had to come back

Jo xxx


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

kelly and lee said:


> thank you very much for your honest opinion! i really appreciate that.
> 
> Looks like we will have to reconsider the country we intend to live.
> 
> thanks again x


Well, the UK isn't that bad, you know. You do appreciate it more when you've lived away for several years.
Most countries outside the EU place restrictions on immgrants - Canada and Australia are more demanding than they were about skills and qualifications.
I bought a property in Canada, speak fluent French and have a degree and other professional qualifications as well as close family but I wouldn't have been granted automatic right of residence.
The eastern European EU states are cheap places to live in - for a reason, as I said - but your problem will always be language and skill demand.
I know it seems dire at present - my daughter-in-law and son are coming for a short visit today and my dil was quite tart on the phone when I said I wished it would rain here....she pointed out it had been raining in the UK for weeks...
But the rain will stop eventually, unemployment in the UK is under 9% and the UK economy has a far better prognosis than the Spanish.
So plan for a good holiday..


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

mrypg9 said:


> Well, the UK isn't that bad, you know. You do appreciate it more when you've lived away for several years.
> Most countries outside the EU place restrictions on immgrants - Canada and Australia are more demanding than they were about skills and qualifications.
> I bought a property in Canada, speak fluent French and have a degree and other professional qualifications as well as close family but I wouldn't have been granted automatic right of residence.
> The eastern European EU states are cheap places to live in - for a reason, as I said - but your problem will always be language and skill demand.
> ...


*WHEN WILL THE RAIN EVER STOP AAAAAARRRGGHHHH*

Jo xxx


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## kelly and lee (Jul 12, 2012)

It's not the weather that bothers us, although it doesn't help! ha it's lack of work and worrying that by the time the children leave school, there isn't anything for them to do. We live in the northeast and as i'm sure your aware it's not a nice place to live. I worry that the kids are "getting in with the wrong crowd" and start to go down a very dark road to which there is no return!


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

kelly and lee said:


> It's not the weather that bothers us, although it doesn't help! ha it's lack of work and worrying that by the time the children leave school, there isn't anything for them to do. We live in the northeast and as i'm sure your aware it's not a nice place to live. I worry that the kids are "getting in with the wrong crowd" and start to go down a very dark road to which there is no return!


Multiply all of that by 100 and you'll get the idea of what its like in Spain. There is no work for young people in Spain and in Spain there is no unemployment benefit for them either. I know what you mean about the "wrong crowd". The wrong crowd is in Spain too!!!

I've had five kids, I know what you mean, but its worse in Spain, especially if they have they have to deal at school with the language as well

Jo xxx


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

kelly and lee said:


> It's not the weather that bothers us, although it doesn't help! ha it's lack of work and worrying that by the time the children leave school, there isn't anything for them to do. We live in the northeast and as i'm sure your aware it's not a nice place to live. I worry that the kids are "getting in with the wrong crowd" and start to go down a very dark road to which there is no return!


Yes, I can understand your worries about your children's futures. I taught in and was Head of schools in deprived areas in the UK.
But lack of work is a far worse problem in Spain than in the UK and for young people it's at crisis point. Over 50% of Spain's young people have no workSo the future would be much worse for your children in Spain.
This current recession is Europe-wide and is spreading to most countries in the developed world.
It may not seem so to you but you are in a better place in the UK. There is no way I would have considered emigrating to Spain if I were looking for work at this time - and I can speak three European languages fluently, three more passably and have worked as an interpreter/translator as well as in education.
Life in Spain is good only if you have no money worries. Sunshine is cheap, if not exactly free, but you can't live on it and finding work to put a roof over your head and food on the table is currently very hard even for Spanish people.
As I've said, best plan for a holiday and see for yourself.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

kelly and lee said:


> It's not the weather that bothers us, although it doesn't help! ha it's lack of work and worrying that by the time the children leave school, there isn't anything for them to do. We live in the northeast and as i'm sure your aware it's not a nice place to live. I worry that the kids are "getting in with the wrong crowd" and start to go down a very dark road to which there is no return!


Have you thought of moving down south in the UK??? much easier financially and physically

Jo xx


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## Guest (Jul 12, 2012)

mrypg9 said:


> The village where we live is normally quiet even in the holiday season but this year is unnaturally so. I've noticed that there are fewer tourists in Estepona. Many bars and restaurants are closing in the Marbella - Estepona area.


On a daily basis I resist the urge to contribute to these threads but I really have to contradict this statement as you are tarring Marbella with the same brush as Estepona. 

I have been told by various friends that Estepona has indeed turned into a bit of a ghost town but it really is not as you describe here. The paseo, bars and restaurants are all full of people (every day of the week) and have been for the last few months at least - I haven't seen it as busy as this for at least four years. New bars and restaurants are opening (and not just replacing old/failed businesses), people are expanding their businesses/starting new ones and there is a definite buzz in the air. I know we come back to it time and time again that Marbella is seemingly in a bubble but Mary you should know better than to generalise about areas.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

ShinyAndy said:


> On a daily basis I resist the urge to contribute to these threads but I really have to contradict this statement as you are tarring Marbella with the same brush as Estepona.
> 
> I have been told by various friends that Estepona has indeed turned into a bit of a ghost town but it really is not as you describe here. The paseo, bars and restaurants are all full of people (every day of the week) and have been for the last few months at least - I haven't seen it as busy as this for at least four years. New bars and restaurants are opening (and not just replacing old/failed businesses), people are expanding their businesses/starting new ones and there is a definite buzz in the air. I know we come back to it time and time again that Marbella is seemingly in a bubble but Mary you should know better than to generalise about areas.


Its always good to see you post "shinyAndy"!! While I dont disagree with you - it seems to me that if Marbella has a "buzz in the air", then those folk who are desperate in Estepona will probably be queuing for any work there!!

Since you're in Marbella, what would your advice be to "wannabe" expats with four children and the skills listed above?? Baring in mind this new ruling of proof of income and healthcare before being allowed to register as residents????

Jo xxx


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

jojo said:


> Its always good to see you post "shinyAndy"!! While I dont disagree with you - it seems to me that if Marbella has a "buzz in the air", then those folk who are desperate in Estepona will probably be queuing for any work there!!
> 
> Since you're in Marbella, what would your advice be to "wannabe" expats with four children and the skills listed above?? Baring in mind this new ruling of proof of income and healthcare before being allowed to register as residents????
> 
> Jo xxx


exactly - can shinyandy suggest where the OP looks for work?

is there a demand for the skills listed in the area?

do you really believe he would be able to support a family of 6, at least one of whom needs to go to a fee-paying school?


and the new residence requirements is a very important point

a young, free & single person might decide that they can get away with 'living under the radar' & probably on the black, too - but to get kids into school, you need that bit of paper..............


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

ShinyAndy said:


> On a daily basis I resist the urge to contribute to these threads but I really have to contradict this statement as you are tarring Marbella with the same brush as Estepona.
> 
> I have been told by various friends that Estepona has indeed turned into a bit of a ghost town but it really is not as you describe here. The paseo, bars and restaurants are all full of people (every day of the week) and have been for the last few months at least - I haven't seen it as busy as this for at least four years. New bars and restaurants are opening (and not just replacing old/failed businesses), people are expanding their businesses/starting new ones and there is a definite buzz in the air. I know we come back to it time and time again that Marbella is seemingly in a bubble but Mary you should know better than to generalise about areas.


Hello Andy, nice to hear from you again..I was thinking about you the other day.
Well, you know Marbella better than me, you live and work there...
But Marbella is in a bubble, really, in that it has a strong resident base of wealthy people, both immigrant and Spanish and wealth attracts and creates wealth.
It is not typical of other areas in Spain and although new bars etc. may be opening there are very many businesses closed or closing.
I'm guessing you mix mainly with well-paid youngish professionals....not many openings for car-wrappers, HGV drivers or people seeking similar kinds of employment.
I don't often eat out or shop in Marbella and you know I don't like the town - unlike Sandra who loves it and shops and patronises a beauty clinic there. But the few people I know who do go there seem to think as I do.
You are a highly skilled, qualified and experienced professional....like my son and dil you could find work anywhere, your skills are scarce and in demand.
Not so for most would-be immigrants, though. 
As I said, I suppose I could describe my working self as a highly qualified skilled and experienced professional....but my professional skills aren't in short supply in Spain so if I were looking for work abroad I wouldn't choose Spain.
Although no doubt with your contacts and experience you'd find me a job...


Chapter Two; how Mary came to live in Spain as Andy's housekeeper....


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

If I were in the OP's position I would think seriously about relocating within the UK. There are many areas that aren't wildly expensive - the Welsh borders, for example, around the Forest of Dean, or North Devon. A nice healthy outdoor life for the kids, and you don't have to learn a new language or worry about how you are going to pay for education and healthcare.


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## gus-lopez (Jan 4, 2010)

Alcalaina said:


> If I were in the OP's position I would think seriously about relocating within the UK. There are many areas that aren't wildly expensive - the Welsh borders, for example, around the Forest of Dean, or North Devon. A nice healthy outdoor life for the kids, and you don't have to learn a new language or worry about how you are going to pay for education and healthcare.


I'd have to disagree there regarding north Devon. It's not cheap in housing costs & finding work would be on par with here.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Alcalaina said:


> If I were in the OP's position I would think seriously about relocating within the UK. There are many areas that aren't wildly expensive - the Welsh borders, for example, around the Forest of Dean, or North Devon. A nice healthy outdoor life for the kids, and you don't have to learn a new language or worry about how you are going to pay for education and healthcare.


I agree, there are some beautiful areas in the UK....but are the employment prospects good in those areas?

I would love to own a home in my native Dorset but property prices are so expensive I could barely afford a garage for my car, let alone the bijou rustic cob thatched cottage I covet...

True, a very healthy lifestyle for children -although having lived in a rural area I found that young people there did more or less the same as town and city kids, sadly - but work is needed to pay for that lifestyle and I doubt there's much of it going in those very pleasant parts of the UK.


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## Guest (Jul 12, 2012)

mrypg9 said:


> Although no doubt with your contacts and experience you'd find me a job...


Place just down the road from us looking for an office admin, English speaking, contract job. They can't find anyone, go figure eh!?


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## Solwriter (Jan 10, 2012)

Moving South is not necessarily a great option for finding work, or for relocating a family of 6.
I have family living in Hampshire and Oxfordshire and friends living in East Sussex and Dorset, plus when in the UK I work in Portsmouth and/or Brighton.

House prices are still much higher in these counties than in the North of England (although prices in Portsmouth and Southampton are more realistic). And finding a house in any of these counties to comfortably home a family of 6 is pretty difficult (I know, I had 4 children myself).
In town and city areas, the vast majority of larger houses have been turned into flats and large new-builds are almost non-existent (unless you have a good pot of money in the bank). Renting large family accommodation is very expensive and difficult to find.

As for work and living:
Dorset - We have a friend who has just been made redundant from one of the few remaining reasonable-paying industries in Dorset. He can no longer afford the mortgage on his home there and is looking to move North.

Brighton - great place to live, but many of the residents are forced to commute daily to London for work, as there is little work available in Brighton itself.
(Incidentally, I believe that Jo lives West along the train line from Brighton and her thoughts on work in the area she lives in are not that good).

Oxfordshire - lovely area, mostly rural, but house prices are way over the top and work is scarce. And although Oxford itself has more work, the cost of property there is even more extortionate.

Hampshire - Basingstoke gives the appearance of being a thriving city, and house prices match this, but work is increasingly hard to find. Many who live in Basingstoke commute to London or go south for work. And this applies to most towns East of Basingstoke.

Southampton - House prices in some areas are cheaper than elsewhere, but this of course depends on the area and whether you would wish to live and bring your children up there. There are some pretty rough areas in Southampton.

Portsmouth - Pretty similar to Southampton, although house prices generally are lower, but Portsmouth is rather like a Northern city dug up and transported down South, so you get a similar culture (only with a mix of London and Essex accents...).
There is work in Portsmouth and surrounding areas, but it is generally low paid and temporary. Some would say "but at least you have the seaside" - Southsea - but that has definitely seen better days!

Having said all that, I do know that there is work for HGV drivers in the Southampton, Portsmouth and Brighton areas, but wages (I believe) are quite low.

So basically, although the idea of moving South in the UK could be an option, don't expect to find a mix of reasonably-priced housing, work and a culture you want to bring your children up in all in the same place.
Times are hard everywhere.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

ShinyAndy said:


> Place just down the road from us looking for an office admin, English speaking, contract job. They can't find anyone, go figure eh!?


But in a way that confirms my thoughts..
Presumably the post requires experience, knowledge of admin. procedures, good command of English, at least very basic IT skills and a reasonably presentable appearance....So in fact I'm not qualified to take it as I have no experience of office admin., my IT skills aren't good and I'm not that smart and well-coiffeured these days...in fact I no longer own any 'work' clothes.

But I have to say that both Sandra and I have been offered jobs and neither of us is looking for work. She was offered a job as receptionist at her regular beauty salon in Marbella which would involve much chatting with ladies similarly interested in their appearance and the efficacy of various beauty products and I was offered a job teaching German in our village.....presumably to locals considering work in Germany.

But these offers were on a 'I know you and think you would fit in with our operation' basis. Neither was on general offer.


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## Guest (Jul 12, 2012)

Job is pretty simple, working for a recruitment company in an office filled with over ambitious testosterone fuelled alpha-males (right up your street!)

I've not really seen any jobs advertised aside from the ones in the paper, we do however get asked if we know anyone for roles probably on a weekly basis. Even in English speaking companies it seems enchufe is alive and well


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## Solwriter (Jan 10, 2012)

ShinyAndy said:


> Place just down the road from us looking for an office admin, English speaking, contract job. They can't find anyone, go figure eh!?


Is it that they are looking for someone experienced in using a particular type of software? As this certainly seems to be the case with many admin jobs.
Perhaps offering a three week training course in the use of the system would help.


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## Guest (Jul 12, 2012)

No, it's just that people are generally flakey and would rather not be working


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## Solwriter (Jan 10, 2012)

ShinyAndy said:


> No, it's just that people are generally flakey and would rather not be working


OK then.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

ShinyAndy said:


> Job is pretty simple, working for a recruitment company in an office filled with over ambitious testosterone fuelled alpha-males (right up your street!)
> 
> I've not really seen any jobs advertised aside from the ones in the paper, we do however get asked if we know anyone for roles probably on a weekly basis. Even in English speaking companies it seems enchufe is alive and well



Yes, that's our experience...enchufe. Since we engaged as gardener a Spanish guy whose family has lived in the village since the Stone Age and is related through marriage to everyone for miles around it's amazing how many offers of help we've had for any domestic problem imaginable...electrical, mechanical, carpentry, plumbing....we are now 100% 'looked after' thanks to Augustin, El Gordo and his brothers, uncles, cousins, nephews....
That's how I got my job offer - one of his friends has a small language school in the village....well, one room over a shop.

I have spent my life working with and around testosterone-fuelled alpha males...at our business with all those big strong macho men, in politics and trades unionism where the term 'Brother' now usually means an insult is on the way....
I'm thankfully past it all now.

I've heard from friends who run businesses that it's difficult to find and retain reasonably bright, literate British office staff. People do seem to flit from job to job here and are rather casual in their attitude...But maybe that's another generalisation as my experience is very limited.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

mrypg9 said:


> I agree, there are some beautiful areas in the UK....but are the employment prospects good in those areas?


Who knows? Undoubtedly better than in Spain though, possibly better than in Sunderland, and at least you can get benefits if you can't get a job.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

mrypg9 said:


> I agree, there are some beautiful areas in the UK....but are the employment prospects good in those areas?
> 
> I would love to own a home in my native Dorset but property prices are so expensive I could barely afford a garage for my car, let alone the bijou rustic cob thatched cottage I covet...
> 
> True, a very healthy lifestyle for children -although having lived in a rural area I found that young people there did more or less the same as town and city kids, sadly - but work is needed to pay for that lifestyle and I doubt there's much of it going in those very pleasant parts of the UK.


But compared to moving to Spain???? First education is straight forward and free, there are more jobs available and easier to apply for, the language is easy, the rules are easy and life is easier to understand!! I dont like to mention the financial benefits, but there is child allowance, free healthcare, family credit, unemployment benefits, housing benefits..........It doesnt have to be in a "beautiful area" as such, but its the change that maybe the family needs to get their children onto the right track????????

Jo xxx


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

ShinyAndy said:


> On a daily basis I resist the urge to contribute to these threads but I really have to contradict this statement as you are tarring Marbella with the same brush as Estepona.
> 
> I have been told by various friends that Estepona has indeed turned into a bit of a ghost town but it really is not as you describe here. The paseo, bars and restaurants are all full of people (every day of the week) and have been for the last few months at least - I haven't seen it as busy as this for at least four years. New bars and restaurants are opening (and not just replacing old/failed businesses), people are expanding their businesses/starting new ones and there is a definite buzz in the air. I know we come back to it time and time again that Marbella is seemingly in a bubble but Mary you should know better than to generalise about areas.


I don't know why you resist your daily urges Andy - please don't!

Whilst I have no reason to disbelieve what you write (why would you make it up??) I don't understand why 2+2 doesn't make 4. Look at this

*Málaga suma casi 255 parados al día en el primer trimestre de reforma laboral*
There were almost 255 new unemployed people daily in Malaga in the first three months after the labour reforms
*La provincia alcanza un nuevo techo de 274.900 desempleados y multiplica por cuatro la cifra respecto a 2007* 
The province reached a new record of 274,900 unemployed people and multiplies the 2007 figure by 4.
 







El Gobierno prevé que en 2015 la tasa será mayor que en 2011. * Málaga* 

The government predicts that this figure will go up in 2015

*La tasa llega al 34,61% ...*

This is a rate of 34.61%*

*Málaga suma casi 255 parados al día en el primer trimestre de reforma laboral - La Opinión de Málaga

¿¿¿¿?????
Marbella is in Malaga, isn't it?
Perhaps the jobs are available in your field? Is it very specialised/ different/ manned by aliens???????
Would you, as asked by xabiachica recommend a family of 6, with children aged from 2 - 14, with the qualifications that the OP has stated to move to Marbella/ Malaga now?

Anyway, back to the OP, and IMO...
Unless ShinyAndy can come up with a job for you, I wouldn't be too hopeful about your partner's job prospects in the fields that you have stated, and also in the south of Spain. You may strike lucky, but you can't bank on it, and personally I think with a family to support you need to find ajob before you come and even then get all the guarentees you can that it's a permanent job. Also, as Jojo pointed out you now need to prove a certain economic standard before you come.
You said something in one of your posts about the children's future


> it's lack of work and worrying that by the time the children leave school, there isn't anything for them to do.


But, I just wonder how a move to Spain will help? There is over 50% unemployment in Spain for young people!!! 

Over  50% unemployment. 
And the south of Spain is the worst hit area.

So, what to do??


 Leave it for 5 years down the line when your oldest will have left school.
 Move to another area within the UK as Alcalaina suggested. Maybe not Devon, but there are plenty of places to look at which would probably work out on a par expense wise and a move within the UK would be far less stressful.
 Look at other countries. Apparently New Zealand was in need of immigrants...


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

jojo said:


> But compared to moving to Spain???? First education is straight forward and free, there are more jobs available and easier to apply for, the language is easy, the rules are easy and life is easier to understand!! I dont like to mention the financial benefits, but there is child allowance, free healthcare, family credit, unemployment benefits, housing benefits..........It doesnt have to be in a "beautiful area" as such, but its the change that maybe the family needs to get their children onto the right track????????
> 
> Jo xxx


All that is very true....

You really do have to live abroad before you appreciate the UK..

I know there are very many things wrong in the UK at the moment but there is a good chance that if they can be put right, they will be.
When I lived in Prague I felt completely defenceless against anything the police there might do. I was fined for things that wouldn't have been commented on by a UK cop...No right of appeal...pay on the spot. I've heard tales of tourists being arrested on trumped-up charges and marched to the nearest cashpoint to get money to pay the 'fine' which of course is pocketed.
The justice system is one big joke. Cases take years to get to court, lawyers are corrupt and inefficient..
I know that things happen in Spain like that too although my few brushes with the law were handled with exemplary courtesy and common sense.
At least in the UK you can make a complaint against a police officer that will get you somewhere -I've done it twice, once on my behalf and once on behalf of a group of local kids who were being harassed by local police.
Everything you say about the welfare system is true as well. Friends in Prague showed disbelief when I told them about housing benefit, the money given to babies to open bank accounts (now stopped), the money for pregnant women to buy fresh fruit and veg (more likely to be Bacardi and Benson and Hedges) and other such benefits.
When you've had a great holiday in the sun it's easy to think that life for people who live there is just one long holiday...
Well, I guess it is if you're retired. But even then you do the same old chores....shopping,washing, cooking, ironing, cleaning..

And in this heat..


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Pesky Wesky said:


> I don't know why you resist your daily urges Andy - please don't!
> 
> Whilst I have no reason to disbelieve what you write (why would you make it up??) I don't understand why 2+2 doesn't make 4. Look at this
> 
> ...




All you say is true...but Marbella is a bit different, simply because as I said earlier it's an oasis of wealth and a magnet for the 'beautiful people'.
Which is why I don't go there,....I would spoil the scenery.


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## Guest (Jul 12, 2012)

Pesky Wesky said:


> I don't know why you resist your daily urges Andy - please don't!
> 
> Whilst I have no reason to disbelieve what you write (why would you make it up??) I don't understand why 2+2 doesn't make 4.


Exactly why I resist the urge, I have no desire (or time lately due to way too much work) to get involved with discussions/arguments or having to constantly justify my posts which go against the common fashionable theme of gloom, doom and depression. 

I mainly spend my time rolling my eyes at the majority of comments, my view of Spain is completely different to everyone else it seems so better to not upset the locals with outrageous claims of employment opportunities, wealth and happiness


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Just looked up average prices for terraced houses in the Southwest and Welsh borders:

Devon £177k
Somerset £158k
Torbay £152k
Herefordshire £147k
Forest of Dean £128k

Compared to Tyne & Wear (where the OP is now) - £124k

Big difference, as expected, but not outrageous if you don't aspire to a thatched cottage.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/shared/spl/hi/in_depth/uk_house_prices/html/houses.stm


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

ShinyAndy said:


> Exactly why I resist the urge, I have no desire (or time lately due to way too much work) to get involved with discussions/arguments or having to constantly justify my posts which go against the common fashionable theme of gloom, doom and depression.
> 
> I mainly spend my time rolling my eyes at the majority of comments, my view of Spain is completely different to everyone else it seems so better to not upset the locals with outrageous claims of employment opportunities, wealth and happiness


If you seriously have a shortage of workers, then why dont you go thru this and see if you can help anyone http://www.expatforum.com/expats/sp...ooking-work-spain-work-wanted-job-offers.html You'd be helping them and yourself

Jo xxx


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

jojo said:


> If you seriously have a shortage of workers, then why dont you go thru this and see if you can help anyone http://www.expatforum.com/expats/sp...ooking-work-spain-work-wanted-job-offers.html You'd be helping them and yourself
> 
> Jo xxx


better than that - he could tell me where to find one of these well paid jobs now that I have 2 teenagers to support on my own - I'm willing to move dahn sarf if I have to, for the right job


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

ShinyAndy said:


> Exactly why I resist the urge, I have no desire (or time lately due to way too much work) to get involved with discussions/arguments or having to constantly justify my posts which go against the common fashionable theme of gloom, doom and depression.
> 
> I mainly spend my time rolling my eyes at the majority of comments, my view of Spain is completely different to everyone else it seems so better to not upset the locals with outrageous claims of employment opportunities, wealth and happiness


If I confined my comments about life in Spain to my own personal life and experiences I 'd have nothing but positive things to say. I love our house, our village, our lifestyle....and most of all the fact that I don't have to go to work and have enough money to lead the lifestyle that suits me.
But that won't be the case for 99.9% of monolingual bricklayers, plasterers, beauticians, hairstylists etc. who post asking about relocating to Spain and I think it's cruel not to tell them how things are here.
You, I and many regular posters are fortunate in that we either have or don't need to work.
To encourage someone with no Spanish, no skills in demand and dependent children in the belief that there is work around if you look hard enough is imo wrong and cruel...


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## brocher (Mar 21, 2011)

xabiachica said:


> better than that - he could tell me where to find one of these well paid jobs now that I have 2 teenagers to support on my own - I'm willing to move dahn sarf if I have to, for the right job


Get in line xab, the job's mine. :boxing:

I'm taking early retirement, leaving this cold hole I seem to be living in and coming out to keep those alpha males in line! If it's too much I'll enlist Mary's help - she'll be close at hand as Andy's new nanny. 

Ha, my poor dd would be mortified if I turned up permanently to cramp her style!


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

brocher said:


> Get in line xab, the job's mine. :boxing:
> 
> I'm taking early retirement, leaving this cold hole I seem to be living in and coming out to keep those alpha males in line! If it's too much I'll enlist Mary's help - she'll be close at hand as Andy's new nanny.
> 
> Ha, my poor dd would be mortified if I turned up permanently to cramp her style!


Well, if you can run an office, be receptionist in a beauty clinic and teach German (not all simultaneously) there are jobs for you in this area...

Can you imagine: Sandra who is not a large woman but being Scots doesn't need to be to keep people in line had over twenty alpha males working for her....All big tough hairy HGV drivrs and technicians...She had no problems...

Her mother was barely five feet tall, 100% Glaswegian and was known as Wee Mae...she was not a woman to be trifled with either.

I highly recommend early retirement...


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Alcalaina said:


> Just looked up average prices for terraced houses in the Southwest and Welsh borders:
> 
> Devon £177k
> Somerset £158k
> ...


Trouble is, I'd aspire to a thatched cottage.

My ex-husband once remarked that I had spiritually never left 13 Malvern Street...the house I was born and grew up in...


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

ShinyAndy said:


> Exactly why I resist the urge, I have no desire (or time lately due to way too much work) to get involved with discussions/arguments or having to constantly justify my posts which go against the common fashionable theme of gloom, doom and depression.
> 
> I mainly spend my time rolling my eyes at the majority of comments, my view of Spain is completely different to everyone else it seems so better to not upset the locals with outrageous claims of employment opportunities, wealth and happiness


My first reaction to this is - if you've got something to say, please say it. No doubt you have reasons for forming your opinion. I too dislike being put into the position of _defending_ a point of view (my inlaws do it continuously) as opposed to being able to state an opinion and reason that opinion.
My attitude of telling the story of the unemployment in Spain is not down to fashionable themes. It's what I see, and actually live on a daily basis here in a large town 30km outside of Madrid. 
The figures I quoted before about Malaga are the figures I see printed if not on a daily basis I'd say a fortnightly basis. Yet you have always said that there are jobs to be had. 2+2 are not making 4. What's the story? I'd really like to know.
I would really like to know where you see the opportunities. What field are they in? Do they really pay a living wage? What geographical area are we talking about? Why are people not going for these jobs? 
I'm not trying to pick an argument or prove anything, but as you yourself say your


> view of Spain is completely different to everyone else


Actually I'd qualify that a bit more and say your view of _your part of Spain_ is different to _most of the people who post on this forum_, (or are you really referring to Spain and everyone?)
So, I would appreciate it if you could calmly explain your position and leave the rolling eyes  to the other forums you're on
OHHH,
And that question, which I believe you've been asked before on other threads a while ago
Would you tell a family with no Spanish skills to come here and look for work, (skilled, semi skilled, manual workers?? What would be the profile??)

Thanks.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Pesky Wesky said:


> My first reaction to this is - if you've got something to say, please say it. No doubt you have reasons for forming your opinion. I too dislike being put into the position of _defending_ a point of view (my inlaws do it continuously) as opposed to being able to state an opinion and reason that opinion.
> My attitude of telling the story of the unemployment in Spain is not down to fashionable themes. It's what I see, and actually live on a daily basis here in a large town 30km outside of Madrid.
> The figures I quoted before about Malaga are the figures I see printed if not on a daily basis I'd say a fortnightly basis. Yet you have always said that there are jobs to be had. 2+2 are not making 4. What's the story? I'd really like to know.
> I would really like to know where you see the opportunities. What field are they in? Do they really pay a living wage? What geographical area are we talking about? Why are people not going for these jobs?
> ...



Some businesses, especially marketing type businesses _have_ to operate on the "everything is great" theory, otherwise they wont survive

Jo xxx


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## brocher (Mar 21, 2011)

mrypg9 said:


> Well, if you can run an office, be receptionist in a beauty clinic and teach German (not all simultaneously) there are jobs for you in this area...
> 
> Can you imagine: Sandra who is not a large woman but being Scots doesn't need to be to keep people in line had over twenty alpha males working for her....All big tough hairy HGV drivrs and technicians...She had no problems...
> 
> ...




I knew her but her name was Wee Aggie!


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## James3214 (Jun 25, 2009)

kelly and lee said:


> It's not the weather that bothers us, although it doesn't help! ha it's lack of work and worrying that by the time the children leave school, there isn't anything for them to do. We live in the northeast and as i'm sure your aware it's not a nice place to live. I worry that the kids are "getting in with the wrong crowd" and start to go down a very dark road to which there is no return!


How about moving to Germany? If you are qualified (although not sure what a HVC is?) in those jobs you mentioned you might be able to get a job here. Probably not well paid but something that could give your husband and kids a bit of hope for the future. And I guarantee the weather will be better than in Sunderland!


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## James3214 (Jun 25, 2009)

James3214 said:


> How about moving to Germany? If you are qualified (although not sure what a HVC is?) in those jobs you mentioned you might be able to get a job here. Probably not well paid but something that could give your husband and kids a bit of hope for the future. And I guarantee the weather will be better than in Sunderland!


I just saw this article on the BBC. I just hope they can get something similar sorted in out Spain!

BBC News - Germany to help Spain give skills to jobless youths


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

James3214 said:


> I just saw this article on the BBC. I just hope they can get something similar sorted in out Spain!
> 
> BBC News - Germany to help Spain give skills to jobless youths


Interesting. Thanks for posting!


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

BTW.
Interesting story (at least to me!)
Some Spanish friends of ours have come back to live in Spain after 16 years of living in Holland. He is 50-53 and has had a high powered job in an American multinational that he has worked for for I think over 25 years, (the last 18 in Holland). In the last few years he was responsible for all the billing in Europe. I don't know the official title. So, he was given the push do to downsizing in the company and the family have moved back to Spain and for the moment are in Madrid and are prepared to move wherever - Spain, Europe, Hong Kong.
Does he have a cat in hells chance of getting a job in Marbella could you tell us Andy?

It's funny, they came back to Spain for brief visits during their time abroad, but when they did it was to the North. Their first comments about life in Madrid were about the heat (and it's barely over 30º!), The roundabouts and the meal times!! They are more guiri than me!!


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