# The one good thing Australia offers



## Karthik (Oct 28, 2009)

Hi All,

I am posting this to get ground reality about the goodness Australia offers to migrants. 

Like many others, I had a dream of moving to Australia for a 'better' future for me and my family. I had spent lot of time and much of money in achieving my dream. Applied for PR in 2010, got visa 2011 and made first entry in 2012. 

During this period, my personal and professional life went on a roller coaster ride - but on the positive side. Settled in a good MNC in Bangalore. Almost forgot the 'dream' and that is when I realised I need to take PR for my second son who was born in 2014. 

Thus dream came live again. Adding colours to the dream was a possible offer, so dream gets ignited with more vigor. 

Now, the twist in the tale: The package offered is less since i don't possess local experience and also with a condition to prove that I am able to work in a level that is much less than my present role. 

So is this post. I have to satisfy myself that taking the pain of initial two years at a lower salary and probably leave family behind in Bangalore for some period is all worth it. The question is what is the worth? What is the one thing that Oz offers to expats, and their kids? Does it cater for the sacrifice that people like me do to move to the continent. 

I have read a lot on this over the net, but would like to understand the ground reality. 

Please share your thoughts. I am in a major dilemma of my life, your inputs will be of real value to me. 

Regards.
Karthik


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## int*MarTiNi (Jul 12, 2015)




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## happybuddha (Sep 28, 2012)

Can you define " 'better' future for me and my family. " ?
What *exactly* are you expecting when you move to Australia ?


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## Karthik (Oct 28, 2009)

I am expecting better education (primary, secondary till university level) for my sons, good quality life (comfortable housing, commute, entertainment, socialising,etc).

And recognition of professional values / expertise that we can provide to the country.


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## Karthik (Oct 28, 2009)

int*MarTiNi said:


>


Its really encouraging to see the picture on screen... maybe I can keep this as my laptop's background. But I cannot follow this all through in life.


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## sribha (Jan 16, 2013)

*Kuwait or Oz?*



happybuddha said:


> Can you define " 'better' future for me and my family. " ?
> What *exactly* are you expecting when you move to Australia ?


I am from India and got my PR granted on 5th Aug 2015. I have a pretty descent job, making good savings working in Kuwait. My family wife, 9 yrs old daughter and 2 yrs old son. My wife is a doctor specialized in Obs & Gyne, has taken a short break 2 months back to look after my son. After two years, she will resume her practice.

Advantages in Kuwait:
1. Can make descent savings, using which I can send my kids to any developed countries for doing Graduation & Post graduation.
2. Job is pretty stable one as of now
3. Can fly to India 2 or 3 times an year to see my aged parents. Its short trip, doesnt cost much.
4. Friends, good Indian community
5. Indian CBSE education for kids, if we are going back to India for some reason, easy for kids.
6. Can go for international trip once an year

Disadvantages
1. Difference in treatment - locals treated well, expatriates are not given equal rights, partiality and dont get respect in many government places.
2. same issue in the work environment, treated differently at my wife's work lace and mine too. This is a pain.
3. Polluted Weather due to hydrocarbons, 4 to 5 months extreme summer, 2 months extreme winter dont allow outdoor activities
4. Small desert country, no where to go except to shopping malls during holidays
5. Education for kids is not that great. 
6. Kids develop some inferiority complex and dont go well with locals
7. Long working hours of my wife in Kuwait will not allow her to look after kids.

I dont have friends in Australia as of now except one in Townsville. I dont have much idea what our family will be getting if we move to Australia.

Whether to relocate of not.

Can someone help?


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## mandy2137 (Mar 5, 2014)

Karthik said:


> I am expecting better education (primary, secondary till university level) for my sons, good quality life (comfortable housing, commute, entertainment, socialising,etc).
> 
> And recognition of professional values / expertise that we can provide to the country.


Hi Karthik,

According to me umpteen of people moved and still migrating to Australia and their expectations are same as yours. I think most of them are satisfied with their this decision. 

Lets critique it:

1) Education: Australia is number one country in literacy level.
2) Quality life: Melbourne become a most liveable city in the world, I guess in other cities too. 
3)Entertainment, socialize, housing and commuting: You will find comfortable transportation system, social life, entertainment and cozy accommodation. 

So I must say you no need to worry.

All the best


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## redington (Jun 8, 2015)

Like many others I am in a similar situation.

I think things have to be thought both "short term" and "long term".

Short term in most cases will make you think that it's not a good idea to move to Australia reasons being:

1) Quit stable jobs and lifestyle and move to an unknown territory where you have no idea what holds for you.

2) Leave family and friends not knowing where you are heading or what's going to happen.

3) Everyone including you and your family super stressed and confused about what's going to happen as a result the move to Australia.

4) Starting career a couple of notches below your existing work profile due to lack of local work experience.

However thinking long term (at least giving yourself 5 years from the day you land into Australia) you may notice the following:

1) Stable job in Australia and positive future outlook (career wise since you have gained local work ex)

2) Better lifestyle, good education for kids, low crime, beautiful country and weather, low pollution, free and good healthcare, Australian passport (citizenship) etc

Conclusion:

Answer the following questions which only YOU can answer for yourself:

1) Do you and your family have the mental, physical and financial strength, ability and courage to risk a few years of your life? 

2) Do you have support from your family (including your parents and siblings) to make this move? Is your spouse's career better there? My wife too is a specialist doctor so I know how she feels to practice there - it's a long rope.

3) Put the pros and cons on paper (for both you are your spouse) - Your existing life versus life in Australia. Put all possible points under both heads including the battles you will need to overcome to settle in Australia. Give each point marks out of 10. Pros being in positive and cons being in negative. Add up and see which option sum up more - this should help.

4) Last but not the least - YOUR DESIRE TO MOVE. This I would think is the most important point. If you love Australia "as a country" then even if you are not that well off in Australia than what you were back in your earlier country, you will never regret. Regret is something which is really bad because you can never go back into your past to change it. You must have a killer passion for Australia. Because only this will drive you against all obstacles and make you survive in Australia. If you don't have this strong liking for Australia then you maybe better off in your own country unless you have a great job waiting for you.


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## R.P.G (May 29, 2015)

For me Savings/Better Lifestyle/ Better education.

i have a strong feeling and confidence that, i can score a well payed job in short time. so, i can save more than what i am saving here. And, Indian education system become worst, its like a rat race and if my son wants a good education in premier institute with minimum expenditure, he has to slog for his grades (he has to get more than 95%) in his secondary education (reservation system ruined education system in india). I do not want that.

even if we move back to India after 5 or 10 yrs, My kids can maintain a relation with Oz and it will definitely be useful for them it future.


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## svj12 (Nov 13, 2013)

Very well said..totally agree with every point you stated!!



redington said:


> Like many others I am in a similar situation.
> 
> I think things have to be thought both "short term" and "long term".
> 
> ...


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## sribha (Jan 16, 2013)

redington said:


> Like many others I am in a similar situation.
> 
> I think things have to be thought both "short term" and "long term".
> 
> ...


Thanks a bunch Redington for the guidance! 

Honestly to mention, I didnt explore much about what is Australia and how we will be benefited.

I know it will definitely have better life style, better education for my kids, better career for my wife and may be better career for me also in a longer run. How much it will be better and what way it will benefit us, how much struggles to undergo are unknown to me now. I will have to work on this. It would be helpful, if you can share the information if you have.

I am concerned about savings only for handling medical emergency, kids education and descent retirement life.

I will prepare a table as you suggested and see how it goes.


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## Karthik (Oct 28, 2009)

redington said:


> Like many others I am in a similar situation.
> 
> I think things have to be thought both "short term" and "long term".
> 
> ...


That's a neat and clean explanation. Very useful, thanks


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## depende (Apr 18, 2013)

What Australia offers?

This question depends on from where you are! If you are from a developing country than Australia has a lot of benefits that been mentioned in previous posts but if you are from a developed country such as Germany than Australia will offer you less than in your country!


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## Maggie-May24 (May 19, 2015)

The answer to this question is also a very personal one, as one family may have needs and dreams that are different from another family.

Perhaps some questions to ask yourself:
- if you didn't take the chance, even if it was initially a 3-year commitment, would you regret it. Would you always wonder "what if we'd tried it"?
- do you have a safety net. If you moved here and after 2-3 years (since you should give it enough time to truly make an effort and to experience more than just a few months) decide it's not for you, can you move back and within a short time pick up where you left off in your home country


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## happybuddha (Sep 28, 2012)

sribha said:


> I am from India and got my PR granted on 5th Aug 2015. I have a pretty descent job, making good savings working in Kuwait. My family wife, 9 yrs old daughter and 2 yrs old son. My wife is a doctor specialized in Obs & Gyne, has taken a short break 2 months back to look after my son. After two years, she will resume her practice.
> 
> Advantages in Kuwait:
> 1. Can make descent savings, using which I can send my kids to any developed countries for doing Graduation & Post graduation.
> ...


I will try and address your cons. 
1. Don't think that you will be treated equally here 100%. Of course, there is no partiality at the government level. But you may find cops pulling you over more often. I don't understand why you need to be respected at gov places. 
2.You are bound to find all work environments with majority and minority groups. You are only dreaming if you want to find equality in any work place. 
3. Australia allows outdoor activities but only if you wear sunscreens. The rate of skin cancer is very high in Australia. I think its about 2 in 3 Australians by the age of 70 will get skin cancer. Depending on where you live weather can get equally bad. 
4. Australia is a big desert country. Most big cities will usually have some avenues for entertainment. 
5. Depends on what great education means to you. 
6. That can be the case anywhere in the world. 
7. IDK if she works long hours out of her own will. But work culture is pretty relaxed in Australia. Of course the immigrants are coming here and working till late in the night making life difficult for others. 

Some other points : 

Stable job : If you are a usual IT guy from India, you are only dreaming of finding a stable job

Savings : The AUD has got the ****s at the moment. If it falls further, it will make no sense to live here. And the salaries have been falling rapidly : iTWire - Contractor pay rates fall steadily in ICT jobs market 

Good medical care : Australia has decent medical care if you are willing to wait in the public system. Meaning, if you have a run of the day problem, a GP will see you immediately. But if you are in need of a surgery, you will be on a waiting list for a year or so. So medical insurance with huge premiums is the only option. Many people think the free care will go away soon anyway.

Good education for kids : Depends on what good education is. Most people I know move to Australia for the relaxed paced of schooling. Which also means, the kids here are no competition to kids from Singapore, India, Brazil etc. 

Just my 2 cents.


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## sribha (Jan 16, 2013)

happybuddha said:


> I will try and address your cons.
> 1. Don't think that you will be treated equally here 100%. Of course, there is no partiality at the government level. But you may find cops pulling you over more often. I don't understand why you need to be respected at gov places.
> 2.You are bound to find all work environments with majority and minority groups. You are only dreaming if you want to find equality in any work place.
> 3. Australia allows outdoor activities but only if you wear sunscreens. The rate of skin cancer is very high in Australia. I think its about 2 in 3 Australians by the age of 70 will get skin cancer. Depending on where you live weather can get equally bad.
> ...


Hi Happybuddha,

Thanks a lot for sharing the facts. This will be very helpful to me when I do deeper analysis and take careful decision. 

Its very clear to me that I cannot dream of living in heaven if I relocate to Australian. I am just seeing, if it will be better than what we are having here. 

I am a Telecom engineer, not in the IT field. Here kids are very much stressed with this type of education system and competition, and there is an uncertainty for getting admission in good universities. Kids who are in top 1 - 3% get into good universities. I want to give my kids a good education without loading them much and get admission into good universities relatively easily. 

I do understand that I cannot expect a stable job and cannot also dream of a work environment without any discrimination anywhere in the word. I would like to have better environment where my skills and efforts are recognised to some extent. 

Please share your thoughts.


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## TheExpatriate (Feb 7, 2014)

happybuddha said:


> 1. Don't think that you will be treated equally here 100%. Of course, there is no partiality at the government level. But you may find cops pulling you over more often. *I don't understand why you need to be respected at gov places. *


because in Kuwait, expats are treated like rubbish, and "Indian" is a derogatory term (I definitely do NOT condone this, but this is how "locals" see it) . Looks like you haven't done a tour of duty in the GCC.


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## icewarp (Jul 15, 2014)

sribha said:


> Can someone help?


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## Ben-HH (Jan 8, 2015)

depende said:


> What Australia offers?
> 
> This question depends on from where you are! If you are from a developing country than Australia has a lot of benefits that been mentioned in previous posts but if you are from a developed country such as Germany than Australia will offer you less than in your country!


But it will offer you a better i.e. more relaxed lifestyle. I am from Germany and I do like Germany a lot. However, the benefits in Germany (i.e. social security, health insurance etc.) come at a price. In other words you pay much more "taxes" compared to Australia.

But my experience is that for Aussies living a good life and having a good work life balance is very important opposed to Germany where sometime it feels like you only live to work.

Anyway, this is just my personal opinion... 

Living the dream right now


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## depende (Apr 18, 2013)

I don't think so that Australia offers a better life that Germany! If you are the lucky one that has a good job in Australia, perhaps yes you can have a good life but I see a lot of people here working Monday to Sunday and having up to 3 part time jobs! Is that a better life? A good work life balance? The majority of immigrants are living like that!

Just yesterday I've spoke with somebody from Germany that came here for a better and you know what he said to me? Many Germans see Australia as a dream land with a better work life balance but you will know it if it is true, when you move to Australia and to see it with your own eyes! He is planning to move back by this December after having tried to survive for the last 2 years!!!

This is the reality!!!


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## Ben-HH (Jan 8, 2015)

depende said:


> I don't think so that Australia offers a better life that Germany! If you are the lucky one that has a good job in Australia, perhaps yes you can have a good life but I see a lot of people here working Monday to Sunday and having up to 3 part time jobs! Is that a better life? A good work life balance? The majority of immigrants are living like that!
> 
> Just yesterday I've spoke with somebody from Germany that came here for a better and you know what he said to me? Many Germans see Australia as a dream land with a better work life balance but you will know it if it is true, when you move to Australia and to see it with your own eyes! He is planning to move back by this December after having tried to survive for the last 2 years!!!
> 
> This is the reality!!!


Yes, surely I was some kind of lucky finding a job which feeds me, my wife and my 3 kids and also allowing us a life at the Northern Beaches. But on the other hand it did not just happen.
There was, beside the fact that I had the relevant experience, a LOT of hard work and preparation involved making all that happen. In that case I am very German making sure everything is well organized ;-)

I must admit that I do not know anyone working Monday to Sunday. All people I know (Germans, English, Aussies...) work Mon to Fri approx. 45 to 50hrs. But yes, Northern Beaches does not represent Australia and we live here in some kind of a bubble.

But saying that what you stated is reality is not true. The truth is that reality is diverse.

I can understand that people are struggling if they come over just because they believe that Australia is their dream country. And it seems to happen a lot. There are plenty of examples on this forum where people spent a lot of money on their visa without ever having been here just to realise that Australia is actually not waiting for them with open arms and a job offer in their hands.

I believe for whether you are successful in Australia or not it is crucial that you manage your expectations and except that you may struggle at the beginning and have to work your way up. 
But I also believe that Australia offers everyone the opportunity to live a good life.


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## kaju (Oct 31, 2011)

depende said:


> I don't think so that Australia offers a better life that Germany! If you are the lucky one that has a good job in Australia, perhaps yes you can have a good life but I see a lot of people here working Monday to Sunday and having up to 3 part time jobs! Is that a better life? A good work life balance? The majority of immigrants are living like that!
> 
> Just yesterday I've spoke with somebody from Germany that came here for a better and you know what he said to me? Many Germans see Australia as a dream land with a better work life balance but you will know it if it is true, when you move to Australia and to see it with your own eyes! He is planning to move back by this December after having tried to survive for the last 2 years!!!
> 
> This is the reality!!!


Well, it's the reality for him. Other Germans (as with any nationality) may have found a job they like, settled happily over time - no doubt their opinions would be different. But I suspect that general unhappiness or dissatisfaction does not apply to all long term immigrants - and I've spoken to many professionally, over extended periods as they settle in Australia. 

Most are happy, but some are not - to an extent, I think that luck plays a part, but I also believe that sometimes you make your own luck, and your flexibility and ability to keep optimistic about the future may also play a part. Research and preparation can help enormously. But sometimes, things just don't go as planned, and it can pay to cut your losses and move on. There really is no same answer for everyone. 

Sometimes it may be finances, or a foreign culture, other times it can simply be too far away from family, and what you know, a past life that can seem much easier. It can be hard in a new location, not knowing anyone, kids crying, money seemingly evaporating very quickly, and wondering if it will ever work out. Other migrants may seem to just walk into success, (you may never hear of their doubts and problems!) while some may fail as they never really made an adequate attempt to make it work. Others still, may never have considered the possibility that it might not work for them, and have no escape route, no way to go home - for them, sadly, life can be very hard indeed. There are several reasons why people return "home". And sometimes, I think that just a few people would be unhappy wherever they are! 

I've been following the discussion on this thread with interest, and there have been many great posts, with differing views.

If you spoke to my German wife, she would tell you that she does not want to return to Germany to live. A good part of our opinions are informed by others - if we meet people that are dissatisfied, then their message is what we hear. And that situation is indeed very real for those people, at least at that time. Similarly, if we only meet people that are happy, how can we know about those that are struggling?

I've lived and worked in Germany on a couple of occasions, arriving with no language skills and starting from scratch. Overall I personally find the countries on about par, although there are quite significant differences of course. I enjoy the greater political and social consciousness in Germany, when it doesn't frustrate me!  I like the history and the closeness of other countries there. And I enjoy the slightly more informal, relaxed nature of life in Australia, and the warmer climate too. 

Socially, I think perhaps friends are easier to make in Australia, but against that, I think somehow friendships in Australia can sometimes be a bit more superficial than those made in Germany, when you do make them there. It's just a difference to adjust to. 

I've found that for me, it takes between one and two years before I can assess such a major change in a more dispassionate way. It takes me that long to (almost!) completely comes to terms with all the changes so they are just routine, or at least mostly, thoroughly familiar by then.

I certainly don't think either Germany or Australia has a particularly higher standard of living, but I might just give the edge to Australia in terms of quality of life. 

But then again, if you're struggling in a new country, working long hours and so on, you might have good reasons to disagree! The reality over the long-term though, for most people when they are actually established in either country, is that much will be similar. Both have good education, services, and so on, a stable political climate. I wouldn't say either has significantly "better" universities or medical services - both are recognised as amongst the best in the world. Both have occasional elements or undertones of racism, but protection for all in law.

It's easy to arrive (from many countries) with starry-eyes in either country and get a bit worn down by the reality over time. Sometimes we dream that our life might be like the time that we visited on holiday, and generally day to day life can be quite different, especially starting over again, with all that entails. If you're now in nice warm Australia, and like the country, that still might not help if you're working all hours, (or worse, can't find work!) just the same as you were in the old country, with seemingly no change on the horizon! It just doesn't meet the dream you had. Not yet, anyway. So is it 'Better the devil you know" and go home? Were your dreams unrealistic, or have you just simply had enough of trying? I've gone through hunting for work, taking anything, having a low income, not knowing anyone or the language. It can be very hard, and although patience helps, sometimes it's just not meant to be, although I think the chances for successful integration in Australia are perhaps higher than in many countries.

Australia tends to rate just a shade higher in quality of life (and happiness) by some established and authoritative ratings methods such as those used by the Economist and the OECD, but these are taken from opinions of a broad spread of people. http://www.oecdbetterlifeindex.org/#/11111111111

I don't think you can say though that a majority of immigrants are doing it tough to the extent of having to work every day - many may be, to start with - but it's worth remembering that Australia is a nation of immigrants - and almost all of those, even when highly skilled, had to start from the bottom, so to speak. 25% of Australians are foreign born, so immigrants by definition - compared to 10% for the UK, 13% for Germany, only 1% for India, and so on. The level of well-being reported for Australia would seem to indicate that for more than many other countries, people are generally satisfied. http://www.oecdregionalwellbeing.org/
Australia really is more multicultural than many other nations, and that in itself may make a difference in terms of feeling accepted, depending on where you live, of course!  

cheers
kaju


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## XPatFromTexas (Aug 9, 2015)

I found this forum hoping to meet other Americans and maybe socialise a bit.

And had to reply to the original poster with my opinion.

I've been here in Melbourne about 25 years.
I did move around a bit in the US for work.
For me, Americans were are so much more open, friendly and welcoming.

Australians are not.
If you do come make sure its not alone.
Your work mates will not want to be your guide to surviving in Aus.
So its best to sort yourself out as best you can.
If you've lucky someone you meet might have just moved to Aus and be willing to discuss it with you.

Be ready to put in all the effort and work.
Join in. Join in. Join in.
Don't wait. Don't be shy. 
Be ready to always agree with something funny to say.


Australians aren't interested in some "sepo" invading their click.
So you have to keep inviting work couples to dinner until you find some you like. 
And hope they return the invite.

Get to know them first, before discussing intimate personal and family details. 
Australians prefer to keep everyone at arms length and jump ship at any sign of a storm.

It would be a lot easier if you absolutely love sports and love drinking.
And love to socialise doing both.

And better to find friends outside work and school.
Like joining a bike club or tennis club or some other social club.
Join these clubs straight away.
Don't wait for to make friends at work.

I met my wife, her friends and the best man at our wedding thru an activities network.
All of whom agree with what I'm writing. Australian or not.
Most of our other friends are from crèche (pre kindergarten childcare) families.

We have zero friends from my work.
We have 1 family who are friends from my lady's work.
We have zero friends from my daughters school friends family.
Neither from public school nor private school.

I regret private school for my daughter but the good lady wife insisted.
The money was ridiculous and, for me, there was no benefit over public.
I feel if my child student is going to do well it won't matter which.


The close friends we do have are friends I'd do anything for at the drop of a hat.
But I don't expect that in return.

If you're charming and like to socialise 
and don't mind not having good close friends for a long while
and have constant family support
and are ready to do all the work finding friends here
you should be OK. 

Its better to come over with work waiting for you.
For both you and your partner.

If you're expecting your Uni degree to transfer here you should make sure because a lot don't.

You'll need to be ready to continually take courses that improve your work resume.
And if you can manage it more degrees.

Academics prefer to hire academics.
Academics love to talk academia.

Keep the TV off. Unless its sports.
Read the paper and keep up with current events so you can have something to talk about.
Maintain a proper diet and keep fit.

Don't work anymore overtime than you absolutely have to.
You won't get recognised for it.
If you do get recognised it will be in a negative way.
And if you are required to work overtime then ask yourself if thats the job you want to keep.
If anyone queries you about leaving on time just mention you have a class you have to get to.

Don't study for work at home.
Keep work study at work.
Keep academic study outside of work.
Unless you've negotiated with your work to have study time.

Again, this is my opinion only.
And would never speak for another.
And when I write you and your I'm speaking in general to myself.

hth


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## sounddonor (May 1, 2013)

XPatFromTexas said:


> I found this forum hoping to meet other Americans and maybe socialise a bit.
> 
> hth


impressive!


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## docsunny50 (May 24, 2015)

I don't understand your post? You say you got PR ; stayed in Australia and then you ask how life is in Australia? Most of the posters here are either outside Australia looking to move to Australia. So obviously you have more perspective of what it is to live in Australia than many others? In any case, you do not move to OZ for the money. If you are after money; move to the US.


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## kaju (Oct 31, 2011)

XPatFromTexas said:


> I found this forum hoping to meet other Americans and maybe socialise a bit.


Welcome! 

This is a very fast moving forum, so if you'd like to keep your posts a bit more visible, and if it's not visa related (including coming-to-Australia threads like this one) you might want to post in one of the other sub-forums for Australia.

The Platypus Den The Platypus Den - Expat Forum For People Moving Overseas And Living Abroad is designed for saying hi, and general discussion, and we've just started a new sub-forum about life in Australia generally too: Life in Australia - Expat Forum For People Moving Overseas And Living Abroad

cheers
kaju


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## atmahesh (Apr 9, 2014)

Good platform for socialising. 



XPatFromTexas said:


> I found this forum hoping to meet other Americans and maybe socialise a bit.
> 
> And had to reply to the original poster with my opinion.
> 
> ...


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## jimblrtoaus (May 25, 2015)

The issues the OP is talking about are things people face in the initial 2 - 5 years. After that you will have a stable job in Australia (Something that is as stable as the one you have in india now). Your wife and kids will be with you and you will have a good social circle. So it is just a matter of giving it a shot I guess. 

I feel there are some things that you will have to give up when you leave India. If they are too dear to you then you need to rethink. 
Things I came up with are 
1. Closeness to Family Members. 
2. Affordable household Help. (you need to do all your chores yourself.)
3. Your kids will not grow up in the culture you grew up in. 
4. Festivals are not the same abroad. 
5. Cheap street food. I have heard vegetarians have a much tougher time with this aspect. 
6. Rote learning and cramming for kids. Your kids will not know all the formulas and the bookish stuff their cousins studying in Indian syllabus schools know. 

These are the things I feel I am leaving behind when I leave India permanently. If you cannot live without them then you would need to reconsider migration

IMHO If you are skilled enough to get a PR to any first world country you have the skills to get really good jobs in India and can make enough money/save enough to be able to afford all the things you want for your family. But you will be competing with a billion people to do whatever you want to do. I am pretty sure you wont have to do that in Australia.


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## MarissaAnna (Sep 27, 2014)

happybuddha said:


> Deleted post


Having just returned from Brazil and having had a Brazilian/Australian guide I can assure you that the overall educational standard there is not good. If the poster was sincere, you may find her kids were in private schools.
Brazil is still a developing country and has a huge difference between the poorest and wealthiest people.
I would imagine a big difference you have to deal with here is related to that. Having, for example, a good job in IT here is nothing special; in fact every second person I know has an adult kid working in IT. You will be one of the mob, generally on a decent average sort of income and doing your own housework, etc. There is little prestige here in having a degree and you will also have to deal with the fact that you will likely have to pay your tradies what seems to be a fortune . Just recently, my relatives had to pay $70 an hour to have someone do carpentry. It was the seventh person they had tried to line up and you have to treat these tradies with kid gloves so that they don't let you down.


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## depende (Apr 18, 2013)

XPatFromTexas said:


> I found this forum hoping to meet other Americans and maybe socialise a bit.
> 
> And had to reply to the original poster with my opinion.
> 
> ...


Hi XPatFromTexas,

I absolutely agree what you have posted! I've been for 2 years in Melbourne and I cannot accept this kind of Australia culture! This is one of the reason that I'm going to leave this country in a few months! People are extremely superficial and it is impossible to find some Australian friends. Just my opinion.


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## MarissaAnna (Sep 27, 2014)

I think that many people in many places find making friends difficult. If you read the Italian forum, for example, many of the posts are from people who are lonely and who find it difficult to make friends with Italians, even when knowing the language. My kids were in London for years but almost all their friends were other Aussie expats. My sister is an expat in the middle east and nearly all her fiends are Aussie expats. There almost no-one makes friends with the locals.
I have been most of my life in Oz. I still have three friends from high school, none from university, a couple from the kids playgroups, a couple from the kids primary school, a couple who were friends of friends and a few from work. But my husband only has the partners of my friends and golf friends. He is friendly with work people but does not see them outside work.
I would be interested to know how people in India and other places actually go about making their friends.


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## saz82 (Feb 25, 2014)

Over here it's usually through friends of friends, acquaintaces at work, school friends, etc. I met my husband through a mutual friend  ... I have also made friends by going up to random people and helping them out. One incident, there was a group of people who seemed to be lost and I just went up to them and asked them if they needed help. I also made casual conversation with people while travelling. Some remained friends, some are just passers by 



MarissaAnna said:


> I think that many people in many places find making friends difficult. If you read the Italian forum, for example, many of the posts are from people who are lonely and who find it difficult to make friends with Italians, even when knowing the language. My kids were in London for years but almost all their friends were other Aussie expats. My sister is an expat in the middle east and nearly all her fiends are Aussie expats. There almost no-one makes friends with the locals.
> I have been most of my life in Oz. I still have three friends from high school, none from university, a couple from the kids playgroups, a couple from the kids primary school, a couple who were friends of friends and a few from work. But my husband only has the partners of my friends and golf friends. He is friendly with work people but does not see them outside work.
> I would be interested to know how people in India and other places actually go about making their friends.


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## MarissaAnna (Sep 27, 2014)

Our kids seem bemused to hear that so many of my friends met their spouses in a bar or a club! They seem to think meeting on the internet is more proper and safe!
But one problem in Australia is that the cities are so spread out and if you work in the city in Sydney, your colleagues might live two hours from each other, making it hard to strike up out of workplace friendships. I think we also tend to go by the British custom of not intruding on the privacy of neighbours, with whom we like to be on polite terms but not too close.
Making good friends is hard work and a process of trial and error. We have all surely got friends who annoy our partners, and in my case I see them separately!


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## sribha (Jan 16, 2013)

MarissaAnna said:


> I think that many people in many places find making friends difficult. If you read the Italian forum, for example, many of the posts are from people who are lonely and who find it difficult to make friends with Italians, even when knowing the language. My kids were in London for years but almost all their friends were other Aussie expats. My sister is an expat in the middle east and nearly all her fiends are Aussie expats. There almost no-one makes friends with the locals. I have been most of my life in Oz. I still have three friends from high school, none from university, a couple from the kids playgroups, a couple from the kids primary school, a couple who were friends of friends and a few from work. But my husband only has the partners of my friends and golf friends. He is friendly with work people but does not see them outside work. I would be interested to know how people in India and other places actually go about making their friends.


Similar to Saz mentioned, in India we make friends in every stages of our life, starting from primary school, university and work place. We also make friends through friends. I still have three close friends from my primary school from my native place, but they are resident of US. We plan to meet at least once in two years. It's easy to make friendship with most people.


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## saz82 (Feb 25, 2014)

I have made friends online. Same locale though and meeting in person in public later. It is a trial and error process but again I was an adult and was cautious about who I meet where.



MarissaAnna said:


> Our kids seem bemused to hear that so many of my friends met their spouses in a bar or a club! They seem to think meeting on the internet is more proper and safe!
> But one problem in Australia is that the cities are so spread out and if you work in the city in Sydney, your colleagues might live two hours from each other, making it hard to strike up out of workplace friendships. I think we also tend to go by the British custom of not intruding on the privacy of neighbours, with whom we like to be on polite terms but not too close.
> Making good friends is hard work and a process of trial and error. We have all surely got friends who annoy our partners, and in my case I see them separately!


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## jimblrtoaus (May 25, 2015)

MarissaAnna said:


> I think that many people in many places find making friends difficult. If you read the Italian forum, for example, many of the posts are from people who are lonely and who find it difficult to make friends with Italians, even when knowing the language. My kids were in London for years but almost all their friends were other Aussie expats. My sister is an expat in the middle east and nearly all her fiends are Aussie expats. There almost no-one makes friends with the locals.
> I have been most of my life in Oz. I still have three friends from high school, none from university, a couple from the kids playgroups, a couple from the kids primary school, a couple who were friends of friends and a few from work. But my husband only has the partners of my friends and golf friends. He is friendly with work people but does not see them outside work.
> I would be interested to know how people in India and other places actually go about making their friends.


For me, I take time in making friends. But I feel that when you are in a new place call all the people you know there and meet them once. I join an organisation where people with similar interests congregate. I mostly meet people who have similar interests there. I also go for a walk or a jog regularly, I get to know a few neighbours. 
The people I know will more often than not introduce me to other people. I get along well enough making a few friends when i go to a new place. What I try to do is to find people with common interests.
My wife however meets the whole neighbourhood and makes friends with everyone in a day. She is really gifted in that way. I couldn't network the way she does.


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