# Police fines.



## passiflora (Jun 28, 2012)

A friend told me this week about a friend of hers who pulled up to the pay kiosk at a toll on the AP7 ,realised there was no one inside so reversed out again to drive to an inhabited kiosk and a Guardia Civil officer came over to her car and fined her 300 euro for reversing on a motorway. Another friend, the same week was stopped and fined by the Guardia for using her mobile while driving and at the time of stated offence her mobile was zipped up in her bag which was lying in the passenger footwell. She refused to pay and is fighting the fine. The officer refused to look at her phone to check the call register and just demanded that she pay the fine as both him and his partner (in crime?) saw her using her mobile.


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## thrax (Nov 13, 2008)

I am hearing increasing incidents of such fines and I suspect it will only get worse. Someone _ know was fined €2000 for speeding down a road he was looking for and whilst talking to a local police officer (asking him for directions to the road). The police officer offered evidence against the Guardia Civil Traffic police but they refused to accept it. It took him several months to win the case._


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

I reported on this a few weeks back. Someone I know who has a hands-free mobile (but wasn't using it) was pulled by two motorcycle Guardia. They took him off the main road into a quiet industrial estate and then proceeded to treat him as a criminal. Their child, 4 years old, was now in tears.

Anyway, they fined him for using the phone - which he wasn't. Again his 'colleague' backed him up.

They tried to fight the case showing call logs, bills etc. but it was all pointless.


I have heard that the Guardia are now not being paid much so have to 'make their income' via on-the-spot fines.


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## gus-lopez (Jan 4, 2010)

snikpoh said:


> I reported on this a few weeks back. Someone I know who has a hands-free mobile (but wasn't using it) was pulled by two motorcycle Guardia. They took him off the main road into a quiet industrial estate and then proceeded to treat him as a criminal. Their child, 4 years old, was now in tears.
> 
> Anyway, they fined him for using the phone - which he wasn't. Again his 'colleague' backed him up.
> 
> ...


When they ask you to stop , you stop. Where you are . That's what I do & always have done , even in the UK. 
This is why it is now best to fit in-car cameras , like the Russians do to protect themselves. Then if they do try & tuck you up just download to youtube & sed the link to the DGt.


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## Calas felices (Nov 29, 2007)

Perhaps it's a coincidence but it seems to be more prevalent towards the end of the month. Did those who were fined get a receipt?? This was happening in the Canaries over 50 years ago when we lived there - everyone kept out of the way of the 'greenfly' at the end of the month.


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## passiflora (Jun 28, 2012)

The story here is that 200 or so police have been shipped down to the coastal tourist spots from Madrid with the remit to get as much money in as they possibly can due to the fact that the police are now more or less, self funding.


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## extranjero (Nov 16, 2012)

How can anyone fight these injustices? Another reason for not moving here!


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

a thread running a FB group atm has a young aussie lad been left at the side of the motorway by traffic police

he was pulled for I don't know what, but it has been discovered that he has no valid licence........... 250€ on the spot fine - he has no cards on him to pay, & only 100€ - I think the car has been confiscated, not sure


his mum is on the way to pay the fine & pick him up 

apparently they could have simply arrested him & the crime carries jail time..............


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## XTreme (May 17, 2008)

extranjero said:


> How can anyone fight these injustices? Another reason for not moving here!


As compared to the squeaky clean British Police? They've always been as bent as a nine bob note!

The only difference in Britain now, compared to 40 years ago, is that they don't beat up _everybody_ that they arrest. Back then it was part of the job description!

I learnt very early on in life that you _never_ trust police, politicians, or anybody in the legal profession.....so it makes no odds to me what the Spanish do!


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## extranjero (Nov 16, 2012)

XTreme said:


> As compared to the squeaky clean British Police? They've always been as bent as a nine bob note!
> 
> The only difference in Britain now, compared to 40 years ago, is that they don't beat up _everybody_ that they arrest. Back then it was part of the job description!
> 
> I learnt very early on in life that you _never_ trust police, politicians, or anybody in the legal profession.....so it makes no odds to me what the Spanish do!


At least you have the resources to make an official complaint. UK police would not get away with the practices previously described. In Spain, what on earth do you do about being unjustly accused of something; Are there any organisations who would help, or would it mean long drawn out actions via lining a solicitor's pocket?It would be handy to know-sounds as if we might need it!


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## XTreme (May 17, 2008)

extranjero said:


> UK police would not get away with the practices previously described. In Spain, what on earth do you do about being unjustly accused of something; Are there any organisations who would help, or would it mean long drawn out actions via lining a solicitor's pocket?It would be handy to know-sounds as if we might need it!


Oh yes they would.....it's going on right now....and always has! Guildford Four, Birmingham Six, Hillsborough, Saville cover ups etc.....do a search, it's a well established tradition.

Of course we've now moved on from the era of bent coppers to encompass political policing as well. So they're moving with the times.

If they want you.....they'll get you. Never been any different.


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## thomas541 (Jul 7, 2013)

mmmh..
-question: any of you run Spanish or UK licence plates?
might be wiser asap becoming a resident to get Spanish plates so bringing in money to the State (car tax). non Spanish plates are a receipe for being targeted. better to "blend in" no ?

-the tip of having in board video camera is a good tip. costs is very low besides.

-what about being a member of the local guardia civil (or policia) supporting group or something similar ? do they accept some kind of donations (not a bribe !!!) and you get a member card or something ? ONly to avoide abuses that is. not "special " treatment.
as indeed the gvt is being asked to reduce civil servants salaries as part of FMI /Europe aid and obviously that includes cops too. but let's not be fooled: regions are looking for ANY extra income so ...


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## extranjero (Nov 16, 2012)

XTreme said:


> Oh yes they would.....it's going on right now....and always has! Guildford Four, Birmingham Six, Hillsborough, Saville cover ups etc.....do a search, it's a well established tradition.
> 
> Of course we've now moved on from the era of bent coppers to encompass political policing as well. So they're moving with the times.
> 
> If they want you.....they'll get you. Never been any different.


I'll make the point again;In Spain you have no redress;In UK you can make official complaints in a number of ways.


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## fergie (Oct 4, 2010)

XTreme said:


> As compared to the squeaky clean British Police? They've always been as bent as a nine bob note!
> 
> The only difference in Britain now, compared to 40 years ago, is that they don't beat up _everybody_ that they arrest. Back then it was part of the job description!
> 
> I learnt very early on in life that you _never_ trust police, politicians, or anybody in the legal profession.....so it makes no odds to me what the Spanish do!


Ha! I remember as a seven year old being taken, held by my ear!! to my parents house, by the beat bobby, and then given a right good telling off---reason-- I had climbed over a low nursery railing to play on their slides and see saws. I never forgot that, and it didn't do me any harm either, we respected the police and didn't do anything naughty again.


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## Aron (Apr 30, 2013)

passiflora said:


> A friend told me this week about a friend of hers who pulled up to the pay kiosk at a toll on the AP7 ,realised there was no one inside so reversed out again to drive to an inhabited kiosk and a Guardia Civil officer came over to her car and fined her 300 euro for reversing on a motorway. Another friend, the same week was stopped and fined by the Guardia for using her mobile while driving and at the time of stated offence her mobile was zipped up in her bag which was lying in the passenger footwell. She refused to pay and is fighting the fine. The officer refused to look at her phone to check the call register and just demanded that she pay the fine as both him and his partner (in crime?) saw her using her mobile.


Contact the car insurance company to challenge the ines. That is in most policies.


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## passiflora (Jun 28, 2012)

Aron said:


> Contact the car insurance company to challenge the ines. That is in most policies.


I did say that to my friend to pass it on to her friend so am waiting to hear how the whole thing pans out.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

extranjero said:


> I'll make the point again;In Spain you have no redress;In UK you can make official complaints in a number of ways.


Don't you??


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

thomas541 said:


> mmmh..
> -question: any of you run Spanish or UK licence plates?
> might be wiser asap becoming a resident to get Spanish plates so bringing in money to the State (car tax). non Spanish plates are a receipe for being targeted. better to "blend in" no ?


You're right of course that foreign plated cars get targeted, or at least, so I've heard, but you're not supposed to driving around in a UK reg car anyway. After a certain time you have to change the plates. Here's a thread
http://www.expatforum.com/expats/sp...ving-spain/109815-illegal-uk-plated-cars.html


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## XTreme (May 17, 2008)

extranjero said:


> I'll make the point again;In Spain you have no redress;In UK you can make official complaints in a number of ways.


I would have thought there are avenues by which you can submit formal complaints.....because let's be honest, we're not living under a regime akin to pre war Germany are we?

I've never had reason to even think about that before. Every time I've dealt with the Guardia they've been more than pleasant to me.

But then, all my papers are always in order, I drive Spanish vehicles with a Spanish license, and I can communicate with them in their own language.


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## stevesainty (Jan 7, 2011)

I read somewhere in the free papers that paying fines by cash had been stopped apart from in the post office and certain banks.

The link below suggests that it was stopped on 4 March.

If this is true, it ought to stop a lot of spurious fines because of the paper trail that they would create.

Spanish traffic fines (multas de trafico) | Abaco


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

stevesainty said:


> I read somewhere in the free papers that paying fines by cash had been stopped apart from in the post office and certain banks.
> 
> The link below suggests that it was stopped on 4 March.
> 
> ...


Absolutely right
And here it is from the horses mouth, well the DGT 
* Descripción *


Información sobre los medios de pago de multas existentes: puede pagar desde esta misma página web o llamando al teléfono 060, con tarjeta de crédito, o débito. También puede dirigirse a una sucursal del  Banco Santander o a una oficina de Correos. Pago con reducción: si la denuncia es anterior al 25 de mayo de 2010, si se efectúa el pago antes de 30 días, existe un descuento del 30%. Si la denuncia es de fecha de 25 de mayo de 2010 o posterior, si se efectúa el pago antes de 20 días naturales, hay una reducción del 50% del importe de la multa. AVISO IMPORTANTE: A partir del 4 de marzo de 2013, las Jefaturas Provinciales de tráfico NO admitirán el pago de multas en metálico. 



The part in red = As from the 4th of March 2013 the Regional Traffic Police will not accept payment of fines in cash.

In blue the different ways to pay a fine


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## Calas felices (Nov 29, 2007)

Now I wonder why the Spanish authorities thought they ought to do that??


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## passiflora (Jun 28, 2012)

XTreme said:


> . Every time I've dealt with the Guardia they've been more than pleasant to me.
> 
> But then, all my papers are always in order, I drive Spanish vehicles with a Spanish license, and I can communicate with them in their own language.


Same here. We were stopped by the police last month for a paperwork check. The officer was very polite, all was in order and off we drove again. We've been here almost 12 years and that is the first time we've been stopped. We have 2 Guardias come here to the house for plants and the occasional drive by to ask if everything is alright. So far we've never met any who have been unpleasant----hope it stays that way!!


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## extranjero (Nov 16, 2012)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Don't you??


OK please list the different ways you can challenge injustice by The Civil Guardia eg when they fine you,saying you have been using a mobile when you haven't, and they refuse to look at the call log.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

I treat most of what appears in the "free" papers (usually written in 'English') with the same contempt as the wildly inaccurate cr*p that appears in the yellow press in the UK. They invariably take some small item, twist it around, dress it up into some sort of "Exclusive" on the grounds that no other media has used the story in quite the same way because they still have some editorial ethics. They work on the principle of never letting the facts get in the way of a good story.


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## 213979 (Apr 11, 2013)

extranjero said:


> I'll make the point again;In Spain you have no redress;In UK you can make official complaints in a number of ways.


I'm sorry? You can definitely fight the fine and complain about police treatment...


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## 213979 (Apr 11, 2013)

extranjero said:


> OK please list the different ways you can challenge injustice by The Civil Guardia eg when they fine you,saying you have been using a mobile when you haven't, and they refuse to look at the call log.


_Denunciar_ them. 
False accusations. :cell: _Pim pam pum, toma lacasitos._


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## leedsutdgem (Jun 3, 2010)

snikpoh said:


> I reported on this a few weeks back. Someone I know who has a hands-free mobile (but wasn't using it) was pulled by two motorcycle Guardia. They took him off the main road into a quiet industrial estate and then proceeded to treat him as a criminal. Their child, 4 years old, was now in tears.
> 
> Anyway, they fined him for using the phone - which he wasn't. Again his 'colleague' backed him up.
> 
> ...


I have a few friends who are guardia civil traffic police and I can assure you they do not get commission to make up their wages.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

leedsutdgem said:


> I have a few friends who are guardia civil traffic police and I can assure you they do not get commission to make up their wages.


Your friends might not but much will depend on where they are. Most GC I encounter are OK but there are those whose treatment of protest marchers and those involved in sit downs who are reminiscent of the Guardia's vicious thugs of Franco's time


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

leedsutdgem said:


> I have a few friends who are guardia civil traffic police and I can assure you they do not get commission to make up their wages.




... I didn't call it commission 


Having seen it happen to very good (Spanish) friends of ours, I can assure you that it IS happening.

They did try the legal route but were told to not waste their money!


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## thomas541 (Jul 7, 2013)

to sum it up to reduce "issues":
- have a car in order and with spanish plates
- of course fully ensured
- the yellow jacket, the replacing bulbs and accident kit
- be polite
- wear google glasses  to record the event ?
- give goodies to cops depending on your business field ? become friends with some cops ?
- don't do a road infraction of course...
- always drive with lights on to make it simple 

good to know at least now cash is supposed to be refused and the payment must be traceable.
perhaps carry of copy in the car of this new rule/legislation ?


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## xocolate (Jan 12, 2013)

Ole! ..and all that it took was 29 replies to state the obvious!


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## jimenato (Nov 21, 2009)

I'm not so sure about the Spanish plates - I think they find it difficult to fine people driving foreign cars with a foreign licence. You hear about foreign drivers in the UK getting away with it all the time. You can see the problem - the police have no easy access to the vehicle and driver databases of foreign countries.

I went round a corner a bit quickly some months ago (Spanish car) and got flagged down by the GC a bit further down the road. As soon as he saw I wasn't Spanish his face fell only to lighten up again when I gave him my Spanish licence. He stuck it into his machine and out came a fine slip complete with all my details and a monstrous fine which I could not escape.

He would not have found the procedure so easy with a UK licence and a UK car.


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## thomas541 (Jul 7, 2013)

jimenato said:


> I'm not so sure about the Spanish plates - I think they find it difficult to fine people driving foreign cars with a foreign licence. You hear about foreign drivers in the UK getting away with it all the time. You can see the problem - the police have no easy access to the vehicle and driver databases of foreign countries.
> 
> I went round a corner a bit quickly some months ago (Spanish car) and got flagged down by the GC a bit further down the road. As soon as he saw I wasn't Spanish his face fell only to lighten up again when I gave him my Spanish licence. He stuck it into his machine and out came a fine slip complete with all my details and a monstrous fine which I could not escape.
> 
> He would not have found the procedure so easy with a UK licence and a UK car.


well in France now foreign cars when fined, ya better be able to pay immediately to the cop mobile card reader or the car is seized...

imho asap you become a resident in Spain, get a Spanish car or make yours in conformity, get Spanish insurance and the pay the taxes (which are low compared to some EU States). they don't charge you much at all for big engines (so far...). Anything that can help this country.


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## gus-lopez (Jan 4, 2010)

jimenato said:


> I'm not so sure about the Spanish plates - I think they find it difficult to fine people driving foreign cars with a foreign licence.


They've overcome that next door in Almeria. They just give you a ticket to matriculate to spanish plates within 5 days , refusing any discussion,or to look at passport, ferry tickets, etc. They also assume that anyone with an nie is a resident !
It has been pointed out to them that this is incorrect & they have acknowledged it, but still carry on the same.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

gus-lopez said:


> They've overcome that next door in Almeria. They just give you a ticket to matriculate to spanish plates within 5 days , refusing any discussion,or to look at passport, ferry tickets, etc.


Good- there are far too many expat residents driving illegal vehicles illegally.


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## gus-lopez (Jan 4, 2010)

baldilocks said:


> Good- there are far too many expat residents driving illegal vehicles illegally.


Yes, but they rarely get one of those.Just holidaymakers.


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## extranjero (Nov 16, 2012)

baldilocks said:


> Good- there are far too many expat residents driving illegal vehicles illegally.


I agree, but if they are genuine holiday makers and can prove it, it is wrong if the CG refuse to accept their explanation!
OK, so what forms of redress has the wronged driver got? so far someone said
Denuncia-would anyone actually do this? what chance would they have of success-what about expense involved?
Legal help via insurance-possibly
What I wanted to see was free sources of advice and help as in UK and no one has come up with anything.
I f people are penalised for eg using a phone, and the CG refuse to accept evidence that they did not, then that is a form of discrimination, abuse of their position or whatever you want to call it;it is wrong, surely illegal and it must be stopped.Why do people just roll over, accept it and pay up? Surely someone knows of an organisation which can help, without having to line the pockets of a lawyer!


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

extranjero said:


> I agree, but if they are genuine holiday makers and can prove it, it is wrong if the CG refuse to accept their explanation!
> OK, so what forms of redress has the wronged driver got? so far someone said
> Denuncia-would anyone actually do this? what chance would they have of success-what about expense involved?
> Legal help via insurance-possibly
> ...


Maybe RACE


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## extranjero (Nov 16, 2012)

baldilocks said:


> Maybe RACE


I should imagine people use their insurance company for breakdowns etc and would not join this organisation
Seems there is no real help for those unjustly accused!


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## thomas541 (Jul 7, 2013)

baldilocks said:


> Good- there are far too many expat residents driving illegal vehicles illegally.


what do you define as an illegal vehicle driven illegally ?
a foreign plate without valid European insurance and not in conformity with European technical control ?

or an expat who still drives is non Spanish registered car, and not controled annually by the Spanish inspection ?

Imho the right approach is if planning to stay beyond 3months, don't take chances: get the car in conformity with Spanish legislation (plate, conformity, and insurance and tax and keep proof of tax paid with the car papers, in some EU States they know check those two and if unpaid you go home by foot!) and voilà.
and some serious anti theft devices (VV2, protective films,RF tracking, marked windows) ! (valid for any countries).


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## XTreme (May 17, 2008)

thomas541 said:


> and some serious anti theft devices (VV2, protective films,RF tracking, marked windows) ! (valid for any countries).


Why? I could leave my keys in the car outside the house day and night and nobody would touch it.

In fact I have actually done it.....and each time I've had a knock on the door with somebody giving them back to me!


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## thomas541 (Jul 7, 2013)

XTreme said:


> Why? I could leave my keys in the car outside the house day and night and nobody would touch it.
> 
> In fact I have actually done it.....and each time I've had a knock on the door with somebody giving them back to me!


you forgot to read: valid for ANY countries

what car is it ?


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## extranjero (Nov 16, 2012)

XTreme said:


> Why? I could leave my keys in the car outside the house day and night and nobody would touch it.
> 
> In fact I have actually done it.....and each time I've had a knock on the door with somebody giving them back to me!


What are you trying to prove by doing that? That you live in an area where everyone is honest?
One day it won't be there, and your insurance won't pay out!


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## thomas541 (Jul 7, 2013)

extranjero said:


> What are you trying to prove by doing that? That you live in an area where everyone is honest?
> One day it won't be there, and your insurance won't pay out!


I didn't get it either the reply or perhaps it was to "prove" me Spain is a safe country. 

stats show similar car thefts in France UK Spain and Italy so this is NOT about Spain!
Germany way above in % of cars stolen in Europe.

best advice again in ANY country: better be safe than sorry, protect your car
and do the right things.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

thomas541 said:


> what do you define as an illegal vehicle driven illegally ?
> a foreign plate without valid European insurance and not in conformity with European technical control ?
> 
> or an expat who still drives is non Spanish registered car, and not controled annually by the Spanish inspection ?
> ...


An illegal vehicle is one that is not street legal in the country of its registration. Being driven illegally is a foreign registered vehicle being driven by a Spanish resident outside the period of grace (i.e. more than 90 day after becoming a resident in Spain)


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## XTreme (May 17, 2008)

To reply to the people above, I didn't deliberately leave my keys in the car as some sort of security test. I just genuinely forgot. 
And the result was what I posted above......haven't you ever done anything like that inadvertently?

As for trying to prove to you that Spain is a safe country.....why would I feel the need to do that?

All I can tell you is that I grew up in an extremely unpleasant area of industrial South Wales which was essentially an alcohol fuelled, testosterone driven, violent and crime ridden environment. 

It's now apparently got the highest number of registered drug addicts, is well known as the epicentre of car theft, and there's plenty of vids on YouTube depicting it's extremely unpleasant, and more often violent nature.

If somebody grew up on the playing fields of Eton with a silver spoon in their mouth and then went to live in a bad area of a big European city, then no doubt they may find themselves out of their depth.

But the reality of it, for me, is that compared to the place of my birth I now live in Disneyworld!


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## thomas541 (Jul 7, 2013)

XTreme said:


> To reply to the people above, I didn't deliberately leave my keys in the car as some sort of security test. I just genuinely forgot.
> And the result was what I posted above......haven't you ever done anything like that inadvertently?
> 
> As for trying to prove to you that Spain is a safe country.....why would I feel the need to do that?
> ...


ok capish . sure looks like Disneyworld compared to what you describe in UK.
/SNIP/http://www.themeparkpost.com/index/...ount-park-gets-urban-management-plan-approval


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