# Birth of child outside Australia after grant of 189 VISA



## ozzi (Jul 14, 2014)

Hi all, 

I am in a fix here. My son was born on 14 FEB 15 in Pakistan *after* 189 VISA was granted on 3rd FEB 2015. 

pregnancy was notified during MEDS in SEP 2014 and VIA email as well as early as SEP 2014.

Question is, how can i process the VISA for my newborn as a dependent child now as it is not included in the secondary applicants? How long does it take for processing (first date of entry by CO is 11 SEP 15) and what is the COST? I was under the impression that I can use form 1436 to add an applicant but thats apparently something to be used BEFORE grant of VISA and cannot be used now.

Please help, if anyone's been in a similar situation. 

regards


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## _shel (Mar 2, 2014)

You cant add someone to a granted visa. You need to apply for a child 101 visa that will take 14 months to grant.


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## ozzi (Jul 14, 2014)

Thank you for the response. I find that to be a strange procedure which doesn't take into account a very natural possibility. It will be impossible to proceed to Australia and leave behind a new born infant all alone for 14 months!! Are you sure there's nothing more that can be done to work around this?


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## _shel (Mar 2, 2014)

Who says you should leave you child behind. Nobody is forcing you go live in Australia without your child. You could after all wait until they have their visa. 

In the mean time the child will need a tourist visa if it is to go with you to validate.


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## Confused Pom (Dec 17, 2014)

ozzi said:


> Thank you for the response. I find that to be a strange procedure which doesn't take into account a very natural possibility. It will be impossible to proceed to Australia and leave behind a new born infant all alone for 14 months!! Are you sure there's nothing more that can be done to work around this?


Doesn't take it to account natural possibility. I am sorry but it was you that did not take the baby into account. You said yourself you told immi at the meds so you knew your wife was pregnant during the process. If you would have done what others do and waited until birth it could have been added and granted PR with you. You chose to carry on regardless and now the only option is a separate visa and do as she sated and validate you PR with your baby on a tourist visa.


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## Scattley (Jul 30, 2012)

You have the option of putting your application on hold until the child is born....you could have done this anytime between September an February but you chose not to. Now the result is you may need to live in Australia without your wife for a time whilst you wait for your Childs visa to come through.


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## ozzi (Jul 14, 2014)

The information was relayed to the CO clearly on two occasions. One being the medicals and the other through a clear email stating this condition. Both form 1022 and 1436 could not have been furnished since both seek name and PP details which were obviously not available for an unborn child! Neither did the authorities ask for any of these forms once the change was communicated (they did ask for lots of other forms and info though).

Extremely strange that a new born child's visa would take 14 months for a grant whereas an entire family's visa was granted in 3 months. Sounds punitive and like a major show stopper


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## girlaussie (Nov 21, 2012)

Sorry but you can't make CO responsible for this situation. Perhaps putting your application/medical on hold could be a better idea. However, now you have your visa grant so your best option is to apply for Child Visa 101, as your IED is Sep '15 you can take your child on a Visitor Visa. As child's Sponsor you don't need to be in Australia while the case is in progress (like Partner Visa 'Usual Resident' requirement) so you can stay with baby till he gets his grant. 

Yes the processing time is 14 months and this is due to child protection issues like child trafficking etc so DIBP wants to make sure it's a genuine application & as applicant is from High Risk country so this is standard timeline.

Hope this helps.

Girl Aussie 



ozzi said:


> The information was relayed to the CO clearly on two occasions. One being the medicals and the other through a clear email stating this condition. Both form 1022 and 1436 could not have been furnished since both seek name and PP details which were obviously not available for an unborn child! Neither did the authorities ask for any of these forms once the change was communicated (they did ask for lots of other forms and info though).
> 
> Extremely strange that a new born child's visa would take 14 months for a grant whereas an entire family's visa was granted in 3 months. Sounds punitive and like a major show stopper


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## ozzi (Jul 14, 2014)

I am not holding the CO responsible. I know s/he takes no action out of personal whim or bias and has to follow the method in practice. 
As a six sigma professional who has designed and modified numerous processes over a career spanning more than a decade, I do however feel that the process itself leaves a lot of grey and needs to be certainly modified. Ideally, upon medicals and/or email notification to the CO, the CO should trigger waiting time till grant of visa or at the very least, seek or prompt modification of visa entries through a form which handles the unexpected. Form 1022 and 1436 are of no help in this case due to the naming/ PP detail constraint. Also, there is unfortunately no bilateral communication between CO and applicant due to bulk handling of countless applications and therefore no action to my email notification for example (interesting to mention that gsm.documents responded within 3 days to my email however it was too late by then as the visa was granted - I wonder why the same promptness wasn't demonstrated prior to grant of visa)

All set aside, thank you for outlining alternative approaches under the given circumstances. My initial thoughts on the matter are that both possibilities are monetarily expensive and time consuming to the point of being non practical. It only takes 20 days for PP of infant to be made and for me to apply so the process puts in added unnecessary delay (authenticity of other children is ascertained through the same set of documents which can be furnished after 20 days of birth). I'm afraid I will be forced to reconsider the move considering the situation. 

That said, I sincerely hope there is a modification in the process to handle such cases so no other applicant might have to suffer. 

Best


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## _shel (Mar 2, 2014)

Takes longer because there are so many applications for so few places allocated for this visa class. 

Again it was your choice. On informing your case officer you could have asked them to put the visa on hold. Instead your wife underwent medical including xray whilst pregnant. Once all requirements are met visa must be granted. If your wife had held off her xray it would not have. Personal responsibility.


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## TheExpatriate (Feb 7, 2014)

you can't have your cake and eat it too .... you were in a rush to get your grant and you did the meds while your wife is pregnant instead of delaying them ......


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## msaeed (Mar 6, 2013)

I really feel for you as this is a very difficult situation.

I believe the one thing which you missed out on was a proper search on this scenario of yours on the internet, if you would have done little goggling on this issue you would have definitely found the information regarding what is best to do in this situation, which is to delay the pregnant wife's medical until baby is born and then include her/him in the visa application.

CO is not responsible for informing the applicants what to do when, you should have been a tad proactive in this and not reactive, having said that all is not lost yet, you can take your baby on tourist visa for IED and then you have 5 years to move permanently, you should apply for baby's visa immediately without any delay..


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## TheExpatriate (Feb 7, 2014)

worst case scenario if the visit visa is rejected, you can go on your own to do the initial entry, return, then your wife can go to do her initial entry and return the next day ..........


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## _shel (Mar 2, 2014)

TheExpatriate said:


> worst case scenario if the visit visa is rejected, you can go on your own to do the initial entry, return, then your wife can go to do her initial entry and return the next day ..........


 Yes because there is a high risk of it being rejected because you have a PR visa. They may see that you are trying to take the child to live in Australia without the correct visa. 

You could lodge the childs child visa ASAP then apply for the tourist visa straight away. That way you are proving you dont intend to stay in Australia with the child. 

Any tourist visa comes with a 'no further stay condition' meaning they can not apply for any other visa inside Australia.


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## ozzi (Jul 14, 2014)

Disagreed. After exhausting both options, there were only two modes of communication left for me to convey the pregnancy. One through MEDS and two via a clear email to my CO which mentioned the pregnancy and asked for the cas to be handled in accordance to t pregnancy. Both modes were used promptly and as early as SEP 2014, four months prior to the grant of VISA. I did it clearly via email sent to the concerned CO. No option/ further request for information was requested and that is where responsibility falls beyond "personal".

That's my two cents worth on the matter. Should the process remain the same for such situations, I foresee similar problems to continuously arise


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## ozzi (Jul 14, 2014)

I did google this and the responses generally communicated a message that said the CO's don't care about this scenario. The point is that even if a blog somewhere mentions otherwise, a blog is a blog and not something that can be taken for an official word. The reason for which a visa processing fee is charged from individuals who come with diverse cases to be considered.
A case of spilt beans here but I just hope no one else has to suffer like this. There is considerable time energy and effort put into such a move and it doesn't deserve an imperfect process to handle it.

Fair regards to all who have tried helping.


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## _shel (Mar 2, 2014)

Handled in accordance with pregnancy what the heck does that mean?

They have no policy for pregnancy other than they dont advise pregnant women to undergo medical but you can if you choose to. Pregnancy is not an illness! Mentioning pregnancy is advising them not instructing your wishes. 

You are not the first and wont be the last. Their policy is clear, pregnancy is not an illness. If you choose to have a pregnant woman do an xray you take the risk of damage, having to validate pregnant or with a small child and needing an additional visa.


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## Confused Pom (Dec 17, 2014)

Totally agree with shel informing them means nothing and they make no allowances.

Have you any idea how many times this happens. If they rushed visa applications and such for people becoming pregnant the rest of us would wait forever to get our visa.

In the situation you tell the CO and have 2 choices... 1) put the application on hold and add the baby once born and all get PR together or 2) carry on regardless put your pregnant wife through xrays get visa then get a separate one for the baby later. You tell the CO about wanting a hold they make no decision for you they just take not when you tell them. You chose the latter thinking it would be faster. This way is a lot longer waiting for the baby's visa. As mentioned the tourist visa may get refused due to you both having PR and may not bring the baby back so you may both need to validate separately leaving the baby with the other one and then wait for grant.


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## lakshmim_84 (Aug 12, 2014)

I too wanted advice in a similar scenario. I am pregnant with my baby due in June. In the medicals, it is said that I have to do test for 
1)HIV
2)Hepatitis
3)Medical Checkup
4)Chest X-ray.

I was thinking of doing 1,2 and 3 and holding the XRay till june. So, will the CO hold my case till they receive the XRay report or should I hold all the medical test. I have not yet been allocated CO. Hence, I am not sure to who I should e-mail about my pregnancy and asking them to hold my case.


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## TheExpatriate (Feb 7, 2014)

lakshmim_84 said:


> I too wanted advice in a similar scenario. I am pregnant with my baby due in June. In the medicals, it is said that I have to do test for
> 1)HIV
> 2)Hepatitis
> 3)Medical Checkup
> ...


ask the CO to hold the entire meds till you deliver


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## girlaussie (Nov 21, 2012)

I can imagine how frustrating this situation is but from me personal experience CO or AHC are not their to advice applicants. I got pregnant during me visa process, me medical was done before I knew about me pregnancy. I spoke to CO regarding it & she didn't even ask for any evidence or doctor letter etc, nor she put me application on hold as CO's or AHC are not authorised to ask applicant 'what do you wanna do next'? Me & my husband were extremely worried as literally our situation was worst than yours. It's applicant/sponsor responsibility to inform CO how they want to handle this situation. If your wife appeared for her medical examination then from CO's point of view this case is progressing. Anyway, you should enjoy your visa grant & new born (congratulations), your have made an effort & pay huge sum for this visa so take it easy. Simply file child visa & later visit visa, it's costly I know but guess this is the best option. 

Good luck!!

Girl Aussie 



ozzi said:


> Disagreed. After exhausting both options, there were only two modes of communication left for me to convey the pregnancy. One through MEDS and two via a clear email to my CO which mentioned the pregnancy and asked for the cas to be handled in accordance to t pregnancy. Both modes were used promptly and as early as SEP 2014, four months prior to the grant of VISA. I did it clearly via email sent to the concerned CO. No option/ further request for information was requested and that is where responsibility falls beyond "personal".
> 
> That's my two cents worth on the matter. Should the process remain the same for such situations, I foresee similar problems to continuously arise


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## usmansshaikh (Jan 7, 2015)

Guys, I just got the invite today to apply for Visa, my wife is due in september but the visa submission process only gives 60 days....what is the recommendation from seniors on how do I delay my application.


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## warlock233 (Sep 3, 2013)

The CO has no way of knowing your intentions (e.g. get the visa, move with your pregnant wife and have the baby delivered in AU).
I know it's easier for us to tell that you should have done it differently, but it is the reality.

If I were you, I would:
1) Apply for the 101 visa
2) Apply for the tourist visa commenting that you started 101 and you just want to travel on vacation to visit AU + validate visa
3) If step 2 doesn't work, I would make each initial entry individually or have someone to look after the baby for a couple of days and travel together to the airport and then come back.

Cheers


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## TheExpatriate (Feb 7, 2014)

usmansshaikh said:


> Guys, I just got the invite today to apply for Visa, my wife is due in september but the visa submission process only gives 60 days....what is the recommendation from seniors on how do I delay my application.


apply for the visa and when asked for Meds/PCCs inform them she's pregnant and request them to delay them till after birth


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## ozzi (Jul 14, 2014)

Clearly, the steps and procedure to be followed if a pregnancy occurs post application are vague and too subjective to warrant a clear understanding for the applicant. The fact that there are countless threads all over the internet with queries revolving around this area is testament to this. But let us for the benefit of the doubt, hold the applicant ENTIRELY responsible for this situation - just for arguments sake (and discounting the fact that the process can be made more objective and water tight). 

Even then, NOTHING under the sun can possibly justify a 14 month minimal processing time and a 3000 AUD fee. The documents that guaranteed safe admission for my other children can be furnished within 20-25 days of birth of the third child. If those documents cannott suffice as proof, neither should the same documents furnished for the other children earlier! 
Extra processing and added five fold monetary burden make this a situation nothing short of punitive and for no good reason. The only options left are:

i. Bear with the added financial / processing delay burden. Undergo risky added visa processing and travel cost which will spike the total VISA cost atleast three fold
ii. Appeal the case given the email notification at the appropriate forum/ level
iii. Drop the idea altogether and log alternative PR process in other regions .. NZ/ Canada

Sorry, but the only reason one endeavors for a PR is for the welfare of ones family and children. Under the circumstances, the possible ways to make it to australia heavily compromise the welfare of my family unnecessarily and contradicts the very purpose of migration. Family and values first and I dont see how this helps any of that - nor can I find reason to make my family undergo such a burdensome act. There was no crime committed and the "consequences" are therefore not acceptable.


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## ozzi (Jul 14, 2014)

http://www.expatforum.com/expats/australia-expat-forum-expats-living-australia/325497-processing-time-grant-after-child-added-189-application.html

Very interesting I bumped into this. CO asks for putting the process on standby. CO asks for 1022. WHY then wasn't the same process followed in my case when I not only informed CO about pregnancy prior to medicals and notified in writing about the pregnancy??


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## warlock233 (Sep 3, 2013)

Dear friend, the sooner you accept that there will be no turn back on your case, the more time you will have to think about what to do next with the current possibilities.

Yes, it's very unfortunate. Yes, CO could have mentioned something.
Immigration is not a fair process. You are looking to get into their country. As I have seen in the past someone saying here, "their court, their ball, their rules".

Don't take this personally... I'm just trying to provide you a useful advice on what to do NOW.

Cheers


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## _shel (Mar 2, 2014)

ozzi said:


> Clearly, the steps and procedure to be followed if a pregnancy occurs post application are vague and too subjective to warrant a clear understanding for the applicant. The fact that there are countless threads all over the internet with queries revolving around this area is testament to this. But let us for the benefit of the doubt, hold the applicant ENTIRELY responsible for this situation - just for arguments sake (and discounting the fact that the process can be made more objective and water tight).
> 
> Even then, NOTHING under the sun can possibly justify a 14 month minimal processing time and a 3000 AUD fee. The documents that guaranteed safe admission for my other children can be furnished within 20-25 days of birth of the third child. If those documents cannott suffice as proof, neither should the same documents furnished for the other children earlier!
> Extra processing and added five fold monetary burden make this a situation nothing short of punitive and for no good reason. The only options left are:
> ...


 Appeal what you have your visa, there is no appeal. Law is the Law and upheld and defended in developed countries. It can not be bent or twisted to meet one persons needs. 

Actually all the countries you named do not feel that PR is for the benefit of you and your family. It is for the countries benefit to being in skilled workers and tax payers. You and your family plans are of little interest. 

Accept it was an error and move on. 



ozzi said:


> http://www.expatforum.com/expats/australia-expat-forum-expats-living-australia/325497-processing-time-grant-after-child-added-189-application.html
> 
> 
> Very interesting I bumped into this. CO asks for putting the process on standby. CO asks for 1022. WHY then wasn't the same process followed in my case when I not only informed CO about pregnancy prior to medicals and notified in writing about the pregnancy??


 Because you were willing to have your pregnant wife have an xray for the medical. Had you have informed the Case Officer your wife would not be able to do the xray your application would have been put on hold. Which is what happens in the majority of cases due to the risk to the baby from unnecessary radiation. But you decided to have her do it anyway hence processing continues.


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## TheExpatriate (Feb 7, 2014)

ozzi said:


> Clearly, the steps and procedure to be followed if a pregnancy occurs post application are vague and too subjective to warrant a clear understanding for the applicant. The fact that there are countless threads all over the internet with queries revolving around this area is testament to this. But let us for the benefit of the doubt, hold the applicant ENTIRELY responsible for this situation - just for arguments sake (and discounting the fact that the process can be made more objective and water tight).
> 
> Even then, NOTHING under the sun can possibly justify a 14 month minimal processing time and a 3000 AUD fee. The documents that guaranteed safe admission for my other children can be furnished within 20-25 days of birth of the third child. If those documents cannott suffice as proof, neither should the same documents furnished for the other children earlier!
> Extra processing and added five fold monetary burden make this a situation nothing short of punitive and for no good reason. The only options left are:
> ...



to be honest you are being unreasonable

1- Higher cost is because it is a separate application

2- Higher processing time because it's capped

3- there is no comparison between both because as a secondary applicant it's one application so cost and time are less

4- there is no appeal because you were not refused

5- there is no appeal for offshore applicants without an onshore sponsor

6- there is no appeal because you went ahead and did meds/PCCs and did not ask for extension

7- COs are not immigration advisors, they execute your application/orders according to law, you wanted to proceed and never asked for a hold 


8- Going for NZ or Canada is a- not guaranteed and b- will cost you WAY more time and money

9- Accept the fact and move on. This will make it easier for you


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## girlaussie (Nov 21, 2012)

I am struggling to understand your point, your argument is baseless as no body stopped you from holding your application. Sorry but looks like you were pretty much in rush & wanted baby to be born in Australia, sadly you missed that opportunity now. You got your grant so 'appeal the case' against whom?? Also for your information Immigration process for other countries take much longer than child visa & obviously cost you way more than just paying for Australian Child Visa fee. It doesn't make sense that you are happy to go for other alternatives but not willing to go for the easy route i.e child visa 101??? 

Girl Aussie 



ozzi said:


> The only options left are:
> 
> i. Bear with the added financial / processing delay burden. Undergo risky added visa processing and travel cost which will spike the total VISA cost atleast three fold
> ii. Appeal the case given the email notification at the appropriate forum/ level
> iii. Drop the idea altogether and log alternative PR process in other regions .. NZ/ Canada


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## ozzi (Jul 14, 2014)

You are not taking into account the cost of return IED tickets for myself and family. Neither the possible tourist/ visitor visa charge. Sum that with the 101 and the cost is more than what a fresh whole family visa would cost other countries. 

Anyway, every man to his own. No need to get judgemental here the aim was to identify where the problem occurred so no one else would have to suffer the same because of this. This discussion does shed good light on process (or lack of it) and the "consequences"

Good luck to everyone with their endeavours. Best!


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## NewMember84 (Mar 5, 2015)

Hi Ozzi,

I'm in a similar situation as you and your family. My wife is also pregnant and is expected to deliver the baby mid April. After informing DIBP about the pregnancy and difficulty of undertaking medicals, we were granted an extension till 28th April to do our medicals and were told to provide baby's passport details and birth certificate after birth. However, we decided to go ahead with the medicals last week because we were not sure whether we would be able to complete the medicals by 28th April in case she has to undergo a Cesarian surgery or has to face some complications. Once the medicals were submitted by the clinic on Monday, we received a direct grant yesterday in my inbox .
Now when I googled on how to add a newborn, it seems like we have to either deliver the baby in Australia or have to apply for child visa which would take 14months to finalize. 

We are not planning to deliver the baby in Australia and it seems like we can't migrate for another 14months even though we have PR? It seems pretty unfair when you look at it but then again we have no one but ourselves to blame for not being more responsible


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## TheExpatriate (Feb 7, 2014)

NewMember84 said:


> Hi Ozzi,
> 
> I'm in a similar situation as you and your family. My wife is also pregnant and is expected to deliver the baby mid April. After informing DIBP about the pregnancy and difficulty of undertaking medicals, we were granted an extension till 28th April to do our medicals and were told to provide baby's passport details and birth certificate after birth. However, we decided to go ahead with the medicals last week because we were not sure whether we would be able to complete the medicals by 28th April in case she has to undergo a Cesarian surgery or has to face some complications. Once the medicals were submitted by the clinic on Monday, we received a direct grant yesterday in my inbox .
> Now when I googled on how to add a newborn, it seems like we have to either deliver the baby in Australia or have to apply for child visa which would take 14months to finalize.
> ...



you could've gotten another extension due to C-Section or anything ..... rushing the medicals was wrong

you can't wait 14 months because your FED will lapse. You will need to validate your visas


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## NewMember84 (Mar 5, 2015)

TheExpatriate said:


> you could've gotten another extension due to C-Section or anything ..... rushing the medicals was wrong
> 
> you can't wait 14 months because your FED will lapse. You will need to validate your visas


Yes, we have to make the initial entry before end of September and can manage that somehow. I'm more worried about starting the child visa process from the scratch and waiting 14 months for a decision.

I know it was wrong.. to be honest I didn't expect them to give us a direct grant because we submitted from 1022 and sent emails regarding the pregnancy. We thought that they would wait till the delivery even though we submitted the medicals. But that doesn't matter now and maybe they thought we were going to deliver in Australia. So can't blame them and I wish I had read about this more before doing medicals.


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## ozzi (Jul 14, 2014)

Tough calls to make good luck to us mate! I agree that the onus to take the right step lies with the applicant however you've correctly highlighted that this is a slippery slope in this situation. There is room for improvement in the process just so that visa applicants are clear about what steps will lead to what.
14 months is a painstakingly long time though. I reckon that is a maximum of 14 months - hopefully. I wonder if there's a chance there might be a grant before my entry date that will be a real life saver


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## krishnadasari (Oct 21, 2017)

hi,

this is krishna. we have been issued PR in 2013 and i moved to australia recently. we have been blessed with a baby boy recently in India. i believe i have to apply 101. i am a bit confused with the procedure. can i bring my child on visiting visa and apply for 101? or can i apply for 101 and bring my child on visiting visa. which one is the right procedure. if i bring my child on visiting visa later if i apply for 101, do the baby can stay during the time of decision.
please advise me.

Krishna


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## eammalh (Sep 12, 2018)

It is mentioned in Homeaffair site that Child must be outside Australia while lodging PR and when Visa application is decided. However some people say that you can take your child on Visitors Visa after lodging the PR. Need confirmation for the same.


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