# A change of ideas regarding a permanent move to Spain



## Barry Jones (Aug 29, 2021)

Hi...

My wife and I have been thinking about selling up in the next few years and retiring to Spain. I have posted a few things on here about that in recent weeks...

Last night, we were having a chat and another thought emerged. We started to discuss the option of buying a place in Spain maybe next year or year after and then splitting our time between our house here and the one in Spain. We have the resources to be able to buy a nice villa near the coast and are aiming for the area around Xabia (Javea) as a target point.

What are the rules/implications in spending a few months in Spain, and a few over here that we should consider?

As I have stated previously, we have been married for 28 years and my wife was born in Northern Ireland, so can qualify for an Irish passport (EU citizenship), as can my son. I would obviously be a long-term spouse, but are there any differences between how long we can stay doing it this way as opposed to a full on emigration?

I am still keen on learning the language as the ultimate goal is always to move out permanently, but we saw this as a way of taking advantage of the current low property prices in Spain primarily

There is also then the option for us to rent the Spanish place out for short periods so obviously tax implications etc...

Any advice from anyone currently splitting their time between here and Spain?

Thanks


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

That sounds like a very sensible solution. You will be able to spend up to three months during any six-month period in Spain, retain your British tax residency and access to the NHS (including EHIC cover while in Spain), and not have to worry about getting a Spanish driving licence.


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## proud.to.be.EUROPEAN (Feb 14, 2020)

Very big differences. With Irish passport one has freedom of movement in EU, family included.
With British passport, one will be only a tuorist as 3rd country national, limited to 90days stay in 180 days, unless one gets long term visa.


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## tebo53 (Sep 18, 2014)

proud.to.be.EUROPEAN said:


> Very big differences. With Irish passport one has freedom of movement in EU, family included.
> With British passport, one will be only a tuorist as 3rd country national, limited to 90days stay in 180 days, unless one gets long term visa.


The 90/180 rule still applies even to Irish passport holders but this rule has never been enforced on EU passport holders. After 90 days you will be required to apply for residency. 

Steve


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## webmarcos (Dec 25, 2012)

proud.to.be.EUROPEAN said:


> Very big differences. With Irish passport one has freedom of movement in EU, family included.
> With British passport, one will be only a tuorist as 3rd country national, limited to 90days stay in 180 days, unless one gets long term visa.


Yep. Most English do not realise that ALL people of Northern Ireland (those who qualify for an Irish passport) retain all EU citizens rights.


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## proud.to.be.EUROPEAN (Feb 14, 2020)

tebo53 said:


> The 90/180 rule still applies even to Irish passport holders but this rule has never been enforced on EU passport holders. After 90 days you will be required to apply for residency.
> 
> Steve


Err, no it doesnt!
EU nationals are not subject to Schengen rules, they are only "required" to register residence if staying longer then 90 days.
They can leave on 89 day and come back two days later for next round of 90 days, if they could be bother as they risk becoming tax liable.


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## tebo53 (Sep 18, 2014)

proud.to.be.EUROPEAN said:


> Err, no it doesnt!
> EU nationals are not subject to Schengen rules, they are only "required" to register residence if staying longer then 90 days.
> They can leave on 89 day and come back two days later for next round of 90 days, if they could be bother as they risk becoming tax liable.


Yes but I did state "After 90 days you will be required to apply for residency" not before!


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## trotter58 (Feb 8, 2017)

Barry Jones said:


> Hi...
> 
> My wife and I have been thinking about selling up in the next few years and retiring to Spain. I have posted a few things on here about that in recent weeks...
> 
> ...


Sounds like an excellent idea. If you spend less than 6 months in Spain you will avoid the requirement to become tax resident and the potential increases in taxes that this may bring. You can also retain free healthcare in the UK and in the EU via the GHIC also there is no requirement to change your driving licence.

As Tebo as said if you wish to stay longer than 90 days in any particular Schengen country then you will be required to register for residency and your wife/son will need to register their presence. The advantage of EU citizenship is that you can move around the Schengen area without being restricted by the 90/180 day rule and you can use this to avoid spending longer than a total of 6 months in Spain, without having to come back to the UK weather. It must be noted that to retain UK tax residency you need to spend a little time in the UK but I think that's what you're planning anyway.

Good luck.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

trotter58 said:


> Sounds like an excellent idea. If you spend less than 6 months in Spain you will avoid the requirement to become tax resident and the potential increases in taxes that this may bring. You can also retain free healthcare in the UK and in the EU via the GHIC also there is no requirement to change your driving licence.
> 
> As Tebo as said if you wish to stay longer than 90 days in any particular Schengen country then you will be required to register for residency and your wife/son will need to register their presence. *The advantage of EU citizenship is that you can move around the Schengen area without being restricted by the 90/180 day rule *and you can use this to avoid spending longer than a total of 6 months in Spain, without having to come back to the UK weather. It must be noted that to retain UK tax residency you need to spend a little time in the UK but I think that's what you're planning anyway.
> 
> Good luck.


That isn't the case, neither for EU residents nor citizens.


The OP would be a resident anyway, not a citizen. Residency in one Schengen country only means that the 90/180 rule doesn't apply to that country. It still applies in the rest of the Schengen zone.


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## trotter58 (Feb 8, 2017)

xabiaxica said:


> That isn't the case, neither for EU residents nor citizens.
> 
> 
> The OP would be a resident anyway, not a citizen. Residency in one Schengen country only means that the 90/180 rule doesn't apply to that country. It still applies in the rest of the Schengen zone.


I understood it that the O/P would retain his UK residency and would travel with his wife/son who are EU citizens and are allowed to travel throughout the Schengen area without being subjected to the 90/180 day rule. As I mention if they stay in one particular country for more than 90 days then they will need to register/make their presence known.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

rules apply to t/


trotter58 said:


> I understood it that the O/P would retain his UK residency and would travel with his wife/son who are EU citizens and are allowed to travel throughout the Schengen area without being subjected to the 90/180 day rule. As I mention if they stay in one particular country for more than 90 days then they will need to register/make their presence known.


Ireland isn't signed up to the Schengen agreement, so the 90/180 rules apply. The Schengen zone & the EU aren't the same thing.


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## trotter58 (Feb 8, 2017)

proud.to.be.EUROPEAN said:


> Very big differences. With Irish passport one has freedom of movement in EU, family included.
> With British passport, one will be only a tuorist as 3rd country national, limited to 90days stay in 180 days, unless one gets long term visa.


see post #13 by 
*xabiaxica*
" _Ireland isn't signed up to the Schengen agreement, so the 90/180 rules apply. The Schengen zone & the EU aren't the same thing._ "
One of you guys is wrong.


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## stefig (Jul 14, 2015)

xabiaxica said:


> rules apply to t/
> Ireland isn't signed up to the Schengen agreement, so the 90/180 rules apply. The Schengen zone & the EU aren't the same thing.


That is incorrect. Irish citizens have to register if staying in one Schengen country for longer than 90 days, but can stay in the Schengen area as whole as long as they like. They can go to Portugal, Italy, wherever they want for their time outside Spain. The only restriction for Irish citizens is that unlike citizens of Schengen member states, they need to show their passport when first entering the Schengen area. Once they're there, they can stay as long as they want to and could theoretically go to a new Schengen country every month. British citizens can no longer do this.


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## proud.to.be.EUROPEAN (Feb 14, 2020)

trotter58 said:


> see post #13 by
> *xabiaxica*
> " _Ireland isn't signed up to the Schengen agreement, so the 90/180 rules apply. The Schengen zone & the EU aren't the same thing._ "
> One of you guys is wrong.


We are both right. Immigration rules are compex subject and there are many different conbinations of rules that can apply.

1. Schengen 90/180 rules do not apply to EU nationals or their close family members when traveling as group
2. Ireland is not member of Schengen, but UK nationals have freedom of movement under CTA arangment
3. EU nationals are required (but not forced) to register their presence in another EU state after 90 days, under free movement directive
4. Not all EU states are member of Schengen. There are few non-EU states that are members. Google it.


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## Joey Testa (Jan 5, 2021)

Is it really better to buy a place in Javea rather than renting? There are a lot of taxes associated with buying and selling property in Spain and the risk of overpaying is high if you don´t know the local market.


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