# British guy bringing Filipina wife to me in Germany



## Welsh Guy

Ok here is my question. As I dont earn £22,400 a year in the UK am unable to bring my Filipina gf to the UK.
So I am thinking of gong to Germany to work as I have done in the past so that we can be together there.
I would like her to come soon after I start working in Germany but correct me if I am wrong that I don't think she will be allowed in until we get married.

My plan therfore is to marry her in Britain first, and then return to Germany with her and her 4 year old daughter.
She speaks great English but no German. Would she need to speak basic German before they would let her into Germany ?
Would she need a visa to enter Germany if we were freshly married ? If so how long before we get married would I need to get one and what type of visa.
How much hassle is the whole process and what costs are involved ? 
How long would we need to stay in Germany before I could bring her back to the UK with no restrictions on what I have to earn.
Once we were married could she easily obtain a work visa to work in Germany.

If anyone can help answer I'd be very happy and also any other tips or advice


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## beppi

To bring a wife (or de-facto partner if you can prove a long-term relationship akin to being married) to Germany as EU citizen, she does not need to show language skills. But you need to show sufficient living space (rent a big enough apartment!), health insurance and financial resources (at least €8300/year per person).


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## Welsh Guy

beppi said:


> To bring a wife (or de-facto partner if you can prove a long-term relationship akin to being married) to Germany as EU citizen, she does not need to show language skills. But you need to show sufficient living space (rent a big enough apartment!), health insurance and financial resources (at least €8300/year per person).


We only spent 2 months together in the Philippines Starting beginning of July this year, and daily Skype contact since my return. Would this be long enough ?
It is certainly long enough for me to know that we are made for one another and that its really true love.
So if that was acceptable I would need a job paying 16600 euros to bring her or 24,900 for her 4 year old daughter to accompany her. Is this correct ?
The appartment would nee to be 40 square meters minimum ?
How exactly would I need to go about it though ?
1) Find Job in Germany
2) Save money for flights for her and her daughter to UK and meet her there
3) Get married in UK
4) fly back to Germany and continue to work

I know I am missing bits like applying for visas and proving our relationship.
Can you tell me the exact order and the different offices I need to go to etc etc and the costs involved. Thank you. Seems almost as complicated as the UK.
As anyone ever done this before ? and how big a hassle is it to do if you are working all hours ?


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## ALKB

beppi said:


> To bring a wife (or de-facto partner if you can prove a long-term relationship akin to being married) to Germany as EU citizen, she does not need to show language skills. But you need to show sufficient living space (rent a big enough apartment!), health insurance and financial resources (at least €8300/year per person).


Germany does not recognise unmarried partnerships for immigration purposes.

They only need to show health insurance and financial resources after 90 days of stay - so if they apply within 90 days (and they need to do that anyhow because the visa would run out) they only need to show registration (Anmeldung) and their marriage certificate under EU law.

https://service.berlin.de/dienstleistung/324282/en/


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## ALKB

Welsh Guy said:


> We only spent 2 months together in the Philippines Starting beginning of July this year, and daily Skype contact since my return. Would this be long enough ?
> It is certainly long enough for me to know that we are made for one another and that its really true love.
> So if that was acceptable I would need a job paying 16600 euros to bring her or 24,900 for her 4 year old daughter to accompany her. Is this correct ?
> The appartment would nee to be 40 square meters minimum ?
> How exactly would I need to go about it though ?
> 1) Find Job in Germany
> 2) Save money for flights for her and her daughter to UK and meet her there
> 3) Get married in UK
> 4) fly back to Germany and continue to work
> 
> I know I am missing bits like applying for visas and proving our relationship.
> Can you tell me the exact order and the different offices I need to go to etc etc and the costs involved. Thank you. Seems almost as complicated as the UK.
> As anyone ever done this before ? and how big a hassle is it to do if you are working all hours ?



Under EU law, the authorities cannot ask you to show much.

1. Get married (as far as I know Germany does not recognise unmarried partnerships for immigration purposes but I will be happy to be corrected if anything has changed recently).

2. Get your wife a short term Schengen visa (free of charge and priority processing for spouses of EU citizens)

3. Move to Germany

4. You can sublet a place or even just rent a room in a flatshare. All the Ausländerbehörde can ask for is your Anmeldung, they can't force you to show your rental agreement, that's for German people bringing in non-EEA spouses under German domestic immigration law.

5. Register your residence at the local Meldeamt

6. Go to Ausländerbehörde (make appointment early!!!!) and apply for her Aufenthaltskarte (usually granted on the spot and arrives after about 3 weeks) it is valid for 5 years and allows unrestricted access to the job market. Cost for the card is around € 25.

You do not need a job before your wife can move to Germany with you. You can bring her right away (accompany spouse) and for the first 90 days you can be a jobseeker (or even after that, nobody checks). Only thing is that you can't apply for benefits without working, so you either need lots of savings or find a job asap.

The UK has tightened the Surinder Singh route recently, so you might be required to work in Germany for 6 months to a year minimum before you can move back to the UK under EU law.

Your wife does not need to learn German (but it would be wise to do so should you decide to stay longer).

The only potential difficulty I see is the little girl. To get a visa for her, it must be quite clear that your wife has sole custody, etc.

Good luck!

Have a look here:

https://service.berlin.de/dienstleistung/324282/en/


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## Welsh Guy

ALKB said:


> 2. Get your wife a short term Schengen visa (free of charge and priority processing for spouses of EU citizens)
> 
> The only potential difficulty I see is the little girl. To get a visa for her, it must be quite clear that your wife has sole custody, etc.


So I would apply for this short term Schengen visa whilst in the UK. How exactly to I apply for it. Where do I get the forms from and must I send them to Germany with her passport and that of her daughter and how long before I would get them back ?

If I did take her to Germany before getting married which I probably wont, would I have to prove we have a steady relationship, and the fact I have only spent 2 months together together in the Philippines and Skype contact since would that be enough ? Who must I prove it to and is there forms to fill out and i suppose I should do that before she leaves the Philippines ? Thanks for the info by the way. This looks to be the only option.
After staying in Germany at least a year and we decided to return to Britain would she and her daughter have any problems at all to stay in UK. Would she be able to work straight away in UK, would she be entitled to claim any child benefit or unemployment benefits or would she have to work for a certain period first. 
Would we need to apply for a visa before returning to the UK and also when she comes to the UK to get married to me what visa would she need to come and just get married a Fiancee visa ?


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## Welsh Guy

Yeah I thought you had to get a Fiancee visa which costs about £900 or something and you have to get married within 6 months.
I was told however that I could get a visitor visa (easy to get, only for getting married, no work allowed - basically a tourist visa that allows you to get married).
Not sure if that visa costs anything and can you confirm that its true ?
Why would anyone pay £900 for a Fiancee visa to get married if they can pay nothing (?) for a visitor visa then ?


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## ALKB

Welsh Guy said:


> So I would apply for this short term Schengen visa whilst in the UK. How exactly to I apply for it. Where do I get the forms from and must I send them to Germany with her passport and that of her daughter and how long before I would get them back ?
> 
> If I did take her to Germany before getting married which I probably wont, would I have to prove we have a steady relationship, and the fact I have only spent 2 months together together in the Philippines and Skype contact since would that be enough ? Who must I prove it to and is there forms to fill out and i suppose I should do that before she leaves the Philippines ? Thanks for the info by the way. This looks to be the only option.
> After staying in Germany at least a year and we decided to return to Britain would she and her daughter have any problems at all to stay in UK. Would she be able to work straight away in UK, would she be entitled to claim any child benefit or unemployment benefits or would she have to work for a certain period first.
> Would we need to apply for a visa before returning to the UK and also when she comes to the UK to get married to me what visa would she need to come and just get married a Fiancee visa ?


You need to apply at the German Embassy wherever you are at that point - UK or the Philippines.

Embassy of the Federal Republic of Germany London - Visa

You book an appointment online, fill in the form online, print it out, sign it and hand all documents to the Embassy at the appointment. Under EU law, they should issue the visa within 15 days.

You cannot take her to Germany before getting married unless she qualifies for a visa on her own. Germany does not recognise unmarried partnerships for visa purposes and even if, 2 months would not be enough (the countries who do recognise unmarried partnerships usually look for living together for 2 years minimum with joint tenancy or mortgage, joint bank account, etc.)

How difficult it will be to return to the UK in the future is anybody's guess.

You would have to apply for an EEA family permit for the UK (valid 6 months) and upon arrival in the UK for EEA2 (their version of the residence card/Aufenthaltskarte). Processing for EEA2 can take up to 6 months but she should get a COA (certificate of application) stating her right to work while her application is under process.

She would be entitled to child benefit and if she works to child tax credit, working tax credit, etc. 

To get married in the UK she would need a marriage visitor visa (fiancee visa would require you to meet the financial requirements just like spouse visa).

You might want to look into the possibility of getting married in the Philippines or in Denmark (which would take care of the short term Schengen visa in one go).


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## ALKB

Welsh Guy said:


> Yeah I thought you had to get a Fiancee visa which costs about £900 or something and you have to get married within 6 months.
> I was told however that I could get a visitor visa (easy to get, only for getting married, no work allowed - basically a tourist visa that allows you to get married).
> Not sure if that visa costs anything and can you confirm that its true ?
> Why would anyone pay £900 for a Fiancee visa to get married if they can pay nothing (?) for a visitor visa then ?


You specifically need a marriage visitor visa. I think it costs around £60-80, not sure.

People go for a fiancee visa for all sorts of reasons - wanting to marry in the UK because most family and friends are there, the UK resident is unable to leave the UK for some reason or maybe there are reasons why they can't get married in the other person's home country (same sex relationships, different religions, etc., etc.)

The marriage visitor visa does not lead to settlement. The non-EEA partner would have to leave the country and apply for a spouse visa from their home country or a country they are ordinarily resident in; a fiancee visa can be converted to a spouse visa within the UK.


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## beppi

Welsh Guy said:


> We only spent 2 months together in the Philippines Starting beginning of July this year, and daily Skype contact since my return. Would this be long enough ?


No.
You need to either marry her (or register your relationship as a de-facto marriage in your or her home country) and live together for a year or more to prove it's not a marriage of convenience.



Welsh Guy said:


> So if that was acceptable I would need a job paying 16600 euros to bring her or 24,900 for her 4 year old daughter to accompany her. Is this correct ?


Yes, sounds right. Please note, however, that this income is below the official poverty line, so think twice before deciding you want to live such a life in an unfamiliar place - often it's a disaster recipe for a relationship!



Welsh Guy said:


> The appartment would nee to be 40 square meters minimum ?


40sqm for three people will certainly not do it!
Ask the alien authority (Ausländerbehörde) of the town you want to relocate to for the exact requirements.



Welsh Guy said:


> I know I am missing bits like applying for visas and proving our relationship.
> Can you tell me the exact order and the different offices I need to go to etc etc and the costs involved. Thank you. Seems almost as complicated as the UK.
> As anyone ever done this before ? and how big a hassle is it to do if you are working all hours ?


Buerocracy, although invented by the Chinese, has been perfected in the EU.
The system is (I think deliberately) designed to make newcomers feel as unwelcome as possible. Do not expect any goodwill, or opening hours that are convenient for you!


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## ALKB

beppi said:


> No.
> You need to either marry her (or register your relationship as a de-facto marriage in your or her home country) and live together for a year or more to prove it's not a marriage of convenience.
> 
> 
> Yes, sounds right. Please note, however, that this income is below the official poverty line, so think twice before deciding you want to live such a life in an unfamiliar place - often it's a disaster recipe for a relationship!
> 
> 
> 40sqm for three people will certainly not do it!
> Ask the alien authority (Ausländerbehörde) of the town you want to relocate to for the exact requirements.
> 
> 
> Buerocracy, although invented by the Chinese, has been perfected in the EU.
> The system is (I think deliberately) designed to make newcomers feel as unwelcome as possible. Do not expect any goodwill, or opening hours that are convenient for you!



Under EU law he does not need to show any sort of income at all! Even after 90 days (if they ever ask!) a part time job of 15 hours/week minimum would be completely fine. 

Also no proof about size of accommodation. (Although I would highly recommend a flat of more than 40 square metres!)

This is for Germans bringing in non-EEA spouses. The OP is an EEA-citizen wanting to exercise his EEA rights of free movement and domestic German immigration law does not apply to him and his wife.


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## beppi

I stand corrected - what I wrote is indeed for Germans bringing their non-EU spouse.
That it's easier for non-Germans to bring their spouse than for Germans is probably one of the many idiosyncracies (or should I write idiocies?) of the EU.


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## ALKB

beppi said:


> I stand corrected - what I wrote is indeed for Germans bringing their non-EU spouse.
> That it's easier for non-Germans to bring their spouse than for Germans is probably one of the many idiosyncracies (or should I write idiocies?) of the EU.


Agreed!

On the other hand, all the other EEA countries have to let us and our non-EEA spouses in without kicking up a fuss, either 

That people might end up living under a bridge (ask any London charity) is a whole different story.


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## Welsh Guy

I actually started a new thread as I think its alot less confusing to read different bits of info.
I will also put here what I wrote as well. Maybe theres little point but anyway.
I think I have gathered all the info and have put it all together the way I think I am going nto execute it. Any mistakes or something I missed out, let me know.

*THE PLAN FOR A UK MAN WITH LITTLE MONEY TO BE TOGETHER WITH HIS FILIPINA WIFE*

1) First find a job to go to Germany.

2) You can sublet a place or even just rent a room in a flatshare. All the Ausländerbehörde can ask for is your Anmeldung, they can't force you to show your rental agreement, that's for German people bringing in non-EEA spouses under German domestic immigration law.

3) Register your residence at the local Meldeamt

4) Go to Ausländerbehörde (make appointment early!!!!) and apply for her Aufenthaltskarte (usually granted on the spot and arrives after about 3 weeks) it is valid for 5 years and allows unrestricted access to the job market. Cost for the card is around € 25. Your wife will need to do this as well when she returns with you if she wants to work.

5) Start work. Once you have saved enough for your partner to fly to fly to the UK to be married you have to get a visitor visa for her (easy to get, only for getting married, no work allowed - basically a tourist visa that allows you to get married).

Then fly to meet your gf at Heathrow airport and get married in UK. 

The UK marriage visitor visa takes about 3 weeks to be issued, costs £83. 

The marriage visitor visa does not lead to settlement. The non-EEA partner would have to leave the country and apply for a spouse visa from their home country or a country they are ordinarily resident in 

Its a visa for family reunion
("marriage" or "spouse" visa) needed with a "EU" citizen in order to stay permanently with you in Germany.

6) So after the marrage, get your wife a short term Schengen visa (free of charge and priority processing for spouses of EU citizens)
You need to apply at the German Embassy wherever you are at that point - UK or the Philippines.
Embassy of the Federal Republic of Germany London - Visa
You book an appointment online, fill in the form online, print it out, sign it and hand all documents to the Embassy at the appointment. Under EU law, they should issue the visa within 15 days.

7) Move to Germany with wife and continue to work

8) You will need to establish a life in Germany. It is hard to say when this happened but I would say at least 1 to 1 1/2 years, before being able to return to the UK

we suggest that you
contact the German embassy in London beforehand, in order to know if and under
what conditions a visa application in the UK might be possible. Please find
all contact details at the following link:

Auswärtiges Amt - German missions
You would have to apply for an EEA family permit for the UK (valid 6 months) and upon arrival in the UK for EEA2 (their version of the residence card/Aufenthaltskarte). Processing for EEA2 can take up to 6 months but she should get a COA (certificate of application) stating her right to work while her application is under process.

She would be entitled to child benefit and if she works to child tax credit, working tax credit, etc.


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## beppi

If you put the points into the right chronological order (of course you need to marry first, before going applying for her Germany visa ot moving there), it might even work. But don't expect it to be easy or quick! The authorities will throw every spanner they have. And each step will take months!


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## WestCoastCanadianGirl

I'm closing this thread in favour of your new one, as it's pointless to have two similar threads going at the same time.


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