# Dual citizenship



## OliveCameToo (Dec 27, 2013)

My mother is Italian and my father was English. They married in Venice in 1947 in a Garrison church while dad was still in the army. They then came to England and remained here. My brother and I were both born here.
I have briefly researched it and dont totally understand what I read but under the impression that I could get dual citizenship if we moved over 

Would this be an advantage? If so in which way?!


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## NickZ (Jun 26, 2009)

You're English? Outside of voting in national elections I can't think of any advantages.

Well you'll get an Italian passport and an Italian citizen ID card. The ID card would let you travel with just the ID card with in the EU.


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## OliveCameToo (Dec 27, 2013)

Yes I'm English (although Italian in my heart  ) If I remember rightly my mum could only vote in one country so she used to vote in England.
I wont worry too much then!


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## pudd 2 (Dec 10, 2008)

just not worry about voting we are no citizen of Italy but live here full time and have residence its enugh , if we had the vote who would we vote for lord only knows the all mad lol


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## OliveCameToo (Dec 27, 2013)

Ha ha exactly Pudd!


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## accbgb (Sep 23, 2009)

Italian citizenship would come with certain privileges; as an EU/UK citizen, you have the right to live and work in Italy so long as you are gainfully employed, not convicted of a crime and do not become a burden to the state. As an Italian citizen, you have the _*absolute *_right to remain in Italy regardless of any impediments. Period.

You were (I presume) born on or after January 1, 1948. That being the case, you would have inherited Italian citizenship from your mother - assuming that your mother did not _previously _renounce her own citizenship. You would need to research this as laws in place at the time of her marriage may have caused her to automatically lose Italian citizenship.


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## NickZ (Jun 26, 2009)

Being convicted of a crime isn't enough to deport an EU national. The person has to be declared a security risk. That's virtually impossible.

Now I doubt the OP intends to set up a terrorist network . Also the €€€ requirements are fairly low. IIRC about €6000 per year. I can't imagine too many people are coming from the UK with income less then that.

If they were married in 1947 the mother risks losing her citizenship right there. Not that that's a big issue. A few years living in Italy and the OP could claim under the descendant rule.


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## accbgb (Sep 23, 2009)

Right you are, Nick.

The important take-away here is that Italian citizens have the absolute right to live, play and work (or not) in Italy. EU citizens have lesser, but still substantial, rights; non-EU citizens have very limited rights.

EUROPA – Living abroad


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## OliveCameToo (Dec 27, 2013)

My mum has dual citizenship (I cannot remember when she applied, I think it was in the 60's or 70's) and all I remember her mentioning about the subject was that she couldn't vote in both countries.

I have never been arrested for anything  and my partner and I have private pensions which will (if we are mortgage free) keep us in a modest lifestyle, which is really all we want.


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## accbgb (Sep 23, 2009)

You would have inherited Italian citizenship from your mother only if a) you were born on or after January 1, 1948 AND your mother was an Italian citizen AT THAT TIME, or b) you were still a minor at the time your mother regained (?) her Italian citizenship.

Worst case, as Nick mentioned, is that you could claim Italian citizenship by right of descent up to the 2nd degree after residing legally in Italy for three years.

As for voting, that can be a quirky thing which used to depend on the laws of both countries; however I am not sure how EU rules impact this particular case. The Italian parliament has several seats assigned specifically to represent Italians living abroad and I would think that your mother should be able to vote in those specific elections. See Overseas constituencies of the Parliament of Italy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## OliveCameToo (Dec 27, 2013)

Unfortunately, it wouldn't make any difference to her now, she is 92yrs old and has dementia 
I was born 1958 and I'm pretty sure she was still an Italian citizen in 1948 which was only a year after she moved over here with my father after marrying in 1947 in Venice. I really cannot see her giving up her Italian citizenship to be honest  unless she didnt realise what she was doing (but then Im sure my dad would have made sure she knew)
On the other hand if she did Im sure I was a minor when she went for dual citizenship. I will have to do some digging, Im sure her papers are around somewhere.


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## BBCWatcher (Dec 28, 2012)

Find out precisely when your mother acquired her U.K. citizenship. There are a couple possibilities:

1. If that occurred automatically in 1947 upon marriage to your father, you likely have the option to lodge a court claim in Italy to obtain Italian citizenship recognition.

2. If that otherwise occurred before you were born, you have no claim. However, as the child or grandchild of a person born an Italian citizen you have the option to naturalize as an Italian citizen in Italy once you've reached the 3 year mark of legal, continuous residence in Italy. (Your first or second degree Italian ancestry shaves 2 years off the usual 5 year general requirement for EU/EEA/Swiss citizens.)

3. If that occurred after you were born, you have an easy claim (via your local Italian consulate).


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## lzzjp (Oct 19, 2013)

JURIS SANGUINIS

Oliver, I understand your feeling. Is your right to become an Italian citizen ( your are already in your heart and in your blood). 
There are some benefits of having dual citizenship. Some of these benefits include longer tourist visa in some countries, the right to vote, the right to register your children as Italian and British.
Job opportunities as well.

But I'll tell you mate, the biggest beneficiary will be your heart.

And the way things are going back in the UK, the Italian citizenship might become your only free pass across Europe if UK decide to get out EU.

It will be an easy and quick process.


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## BBCWatcher (Dec 28, 2012)

In digging into this a bit more, it appears that foreign women marrying British men prior to 1949 automatically acquired British citizenship upon marriage. So my best guess at this point is your mother acquired British citizenship in 1947. But check any records you have to confirm that. U.K. citizenship law is extremely complicated, so I'm not entirely sure about this, but it's likely.

Also, there's a potential Strasbourg Convention complication that I missed. As background, in 1963 the Council of Europe spearheaded a treaty among most of its members in an attempt to cut down on multiple European citizenships. As I read that treaty it wouldn't apply to your mother, though, assuming she acquired U.K. citizenship upon marriage. And it shouldn't be relevant even if she did naturalize as a U.K. citizen at some point since Italian citizenship law prior to August 15, 1992, would have terminated her Italian citizenship at that point in time. So I think we can ignore the treaty completely in this case since it would be redundant to Italian citizenship law.

There's a fourth, surprising possibility: she never acquired U.K. citizenship. That'd be just fine, too.

Anyway, please do check to find out precisely when (and how) she acquired her U.K. citizenship, assuming she did. It's the critical fact that will determine whether you can be recognized as an Italian citizen.


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## OliveCameToo (Dec 27, 2013)

Thank you for all your replies, this is a very helpful forum  Next time I visit I will have a look through her papers, see if I can find out more info.


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## BelloBello (Jan 18, 2014)

OliveCameToo said:


> Thank you for all your replies, this is a very helpful forum  Next time I visit I will have a look through her papers, see if I can find out more info.


Olive, do you belong to ancestry.com? I am in the states and I found my grandparents naturalization papers there, it's a small paper with their name and the date of their oath.
I know the UK is different, and privacy laws are different.
I knew nothing about them, just their name and what city they lived in for years. I hope this helps you.
I did find out that I was born before they took their oath.


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