# Relocating to London



## boblah (Sep 30, 2010)

Hello Everyone,

Hope someone can help me. My company asked me to move to London from Singapore. I am married with 1 child (not yet of school age). Our combined annual salary is around $160,000. The company offer 60,000 pounds gross.

Given the high income tax and cost of living in UK vs SG, I am worried that we will not be able to live decently with this salary. On the other hand, this is a great exposure and experience.

any thoughts? personal experience will be great!

thanks!


----------



## Guest (Feb 7, 2012)

Rent for a 2 bedroom apartment in Central London is £3000 a month - so all your salary after tax will go in just that. £60k a year is not enough for 1 person to live a HIGH quality of life in London - let alone for a family, it is indeed very less. Maybe in other parts of UK it would be fine - like if you can work in Oxford or somewhere but definitely for London with a family coming from Singapore you need 150k at least to live decently. 

Also there is a lot of crime in several areas of London so it is possible to rent something cheaper around 1000 a month for a 2 bedroom flat - but I would not want to bring up kids in that area definitely not. Even middle class SAFE areas of London you are looking at min. 1500-2000 a month in rent for a small 2 bedroom apartment. Try to negotiate a deal with your company to give you free housing then it might be worth the experience...but make sure they give you a nice sized high quality apartment in a prime area.


----------



## Crawford (Jan 23, 2011)

boblah said:


> Hello Everyone,
> 
> Hope someone can help me. My company asked me to move to London from Singapore. I am married with 1 child (not yet of school age). Our combined annual salary is around $160,000. The company offer 60,000 pounds gross.
> 
> ...


When you state 160K dollars is this Singapore dollars? 

If so, the current exchange rate is approx 1 Singapore dollar to .5 UKpounds -so I would expect a straight currency conversion of your current salaries to arrive at 
80K UK pounds.

Sounds as though you are going to be getting less income if you move to London and, as you say, London area is somewhat expensive.

Where in London are you going to be based because that will affect where you will be likely to live and rental expenses?


----------



## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

A lot of London families manage on a lot less than £60,000, and it's certainly possible to live to a decent standard on that, but as stated, it depends very much on where you choose to live and whether you have a car, foreign holidays and lots of meals out etc. If the non-breadwinner can get a job too, perhaps part-time, that will help. A dependant's visa will allow you to work.


----------



## jlms (May 15, 2008)

London is divided in concentric Zones for transport purposes.

Zone 1 & 2 is Central London.

Zone 3 is outer London, but still urban in nature

Zones 4 and beyond are mostly out of London and suburban and even rural in nature.

So the first question you should ask yourself is where do you want to live?

Living in Zones 1 & 2 is tricky because it is very expensive or not good value for money, but with a bit of luck you can find good bargains (I lived in Notting Hill for a couple of years, 2 bed accommodation for around 1500 a month, I also have a 2 bed flat, that would be ideal for a family in Zone 2, some of my friends are young families and live in the same area and are paying around 1300/month).

About criminality in London, well, it is not bad (how somebody from India can claim it is so, beats me, but hey), but compared to Singapore you may feel the difference.The problem in Britain is that everybody likes to whine about how bad things are without realizing how good they have it, but I digress.

What some (by no means all) families choose do is to live in the suburbs (where popular wisdom says it is better to grow a family. It isn't, statistics show that certain crimes are more prevalent in the suburbs, including gun crime, but this is so minuscule as to really not been an issue really) and the working parents chose to commute. This is a false economy IMHO since you pay 3 or 4 thousands pounds a year for really bad train service, plus having a car becomes a necessity because nothing is close by. while living in London proper you may be able to dispense almost entirely from the car, which is terribly expensive to maintain wherever you live(taxes, insurance, petrol and parking could easily fetch you 6 or 7 thousand pounds a year!).

One of the advantages of living out of London proper is that you find cheaper housing, but that normally is negated by the cost of public transport and car maintenance (and all is dull and boring when compared to London).

60000 is an excellent salary, but by no means will allow you a luxurious lifestyle, you will be well off (the average UK salary is around half that) but will have less disposable income that you may have expected.

People come to London for the cosmopolitan atmosphere and general tolerance, I have never seen anything like it and I truly believe anybody living and working here would benefit, not to belittle Singapore, which in many ways is far better organized and advanced than London, but culturally and politically it would be a breath of fresh air for somebody coming from East Asia ( or an example of Western decline, you would have to make that call, which is what makes living in this town so interesting).


----------



## Guest (Feb 8, 2012)

Crime in UK - 

Top Ten Countries With Highest Reported Crime Rates

Total crimes statistics - countries compared - NationMaster

See for yourself where both these sites - especially nationmaster which is an international statistical recording agency compares overall world crimes. Sorry it is a MYTH that countries like UK and USA are safe - they are not SAFE at all - ONLY CERTAIN AREAS of these countries are safe. I feel MUCH MUCH safer travelling in India and in Asia generally than I feel in most of UK outside the posh wealthy areas of central london. And please don't go on to say that crimes are not recorded properly in India - that is no longer the case, every crime is recorded properly and reported and even if some were omitted - there would not be such a HUGE difference between UK and India's overall crime statistics. There might be more murders in India too but what you need to look at is overall crimes and per capital RATE of murders to get a true picture. In my opinion London is safe only if you live in a wealthy area - and in those areas rents are very high (for a reason of course - duh... SAFETY). Same thing goes for the US - a lot of areas in the US are safe / unsafe depending where you go... im sure the crime you have in places like brixton and hackney are or bronx are unheard of anywhere in India...it just does not exist. Even Notting hill is not so safe - parts of notting hill are dangerous after 8 pm...a lot of areas of London are also not safe if you are walking on the street.

Also look at the overall crime statistics this is what it says - 

India - population 1.2 billion people - total crimes - 1.76 million
UK - population 65 million people - total crimes - 6.52 million
Mexico - population 113 million people - total crimes - 1.5 million

LOL....


----------



## Guest (Feb 8, 2012)

Oh and this is for our Mexican amigo - I think you are quite "ignorant" about cost of Car ownership in Singapore or India for that matter - it is actually a LOOOOT more expensive to keep the same kind of car in India or Singapore than it is in UK. Forget the cost of petrol or Insurance - just buying a car in Singapore or India is 2-3 times more expensive than buying a car in UK - no I am not talking about a Tata Nano...lol... a Mercedes E-class costs £40k in UK - in India it costs £80-£100k... same in Singapore. And in UK if you want you can finance a car with 3% rate of interest - I don't know the finance rates in Singapore but in India for a car loan it is about 12-13% - and Insurance rates are also higher in Delhi than in London - yet Mercedes sells like hotcakes in Delhi and Mumbai these days... heck even Jaguars and Range Rovers are selling a lot despite being 3 times more expensive...lol... especially now that Jaguar and Range Rover are an Indian owned company.

Adios!!!


----------



## boblah (Sep 30, 2010)

hi all,

thanks a lot for the reply. all your inputs are very useful...

hi crawford, our office is in Paddington central and yes, 160k singapore dollars...

will continue the discussion with my employer. thanks


----------



## jlms (May 15, 2008)

I don't mention car ownership outside the UK at all in my previous comment.

I don't know what our Indian friend is smoking 

As for crimes, let me put it this way, in Mexico City you find beheaded people by drug gangs in a regular basis, there are regular gun battles on the street where innocent bystanders are hurt or killed, and every petty criminal has a gun, ther ehave been more people killed in Mexico than in Iraq due to gang related violence in the last 5 years or so.

So lets just say that statistics ain't what they used to be.

Now tell me that the UK isn't safe in comparison (I didn't say anything about the US). Just this example and the numbers quoted above made those websites suspect.

I have many Indian friends here in London, most of them have such a rose tinted view of their of country which is truly moving, but misguided, I would really like to believe that crime is recorded with the same level of professionalism as here in the UK, but somehow the social situation in India says that would not be the case, and most likely lots of crime go unreported, in a similar fashion to Mexico, but not in the same shameful scale.

Back to topic, some places in London are a bit riskier, but in general it is a safe place to live, we don't have drug fuelled civil wars or religious or political unrest. Even after the riots, the justice system has been working, I know that in Mexico that simply would not happen, if it would in India, hey, good to know.

And no, I don't live in a posh area, the proof is the invasion of staffies in my neighbourhood, but still I don't feel unsafe.


----------



## Guest (Feb 9, 2012)

_"I have many Indian friends here in London, most of them have such a rose tinted view of their of country which is truly moving, but misguided, I would really like to believe that crime is recorded with the same level of professionalism as here in the UK, but somehow the social situation in India says that would not be the case, and most likely lots of crime go unreported, in a similar fashion to Mexico, but not in the same shameful scale."_

The difference between Poverty in INDIA and - Poverty in UK or Mexico - 

Poor in India dont attack and kill you, in UK and Mexico they do - not all but a vast majority do. India has poverty and a lot of filth but it is SAFER - Indians are not aggressive towards outsiders like you can have in UK...Indians are not even aggressive towards each other - there is no gang wars or drug wars to the extent it exists in south / central America - nor is there a gang culture in India like you have in UK nowadays with the stabbings and teenage knife crime all over the place.

Rose Tinted View? Yes India is rose tinted right now - and it seems like a lot of "others" feel a sense of jealousy towards India's rising global status - it is already one of the most powerful country's in the world - people in my situation have no interest to "settle down" in UK - for me London is just a playground to come and have fun and move on.... and frankly speaking no one from India is desperate to live in UK anymore....maybe in Mexico they are because Mexico is not a global power by any standards. As you ASSUME that you doubt the crime reporting figures in India are accurate - well even if they are not accurate - should there be such a HUGE discrepancy in the numbers as compared to UK? Do you really think if USA and UK have overall crime figures reported as the highest in the world - all those reporting statistical agencies made a huge blunder in doing so?? Sorry but your arguments sound quite ridiculous and one-sided view, maybe you escaped your country and feel "blessed" to live in UK - but for god's sake stop pretending like it's the best place on earth.

And here's another lovely story for you to read - 

The most violent country in Europe: Britain is also worse than South Africa and U.S. | Mail Online


----------



## Guest (Feb 9, 2012)

JLMS - read your own post again - 

_"I don't mention car ownership outside the UK at all in my previous comment."
_
Then what is this - 

_"while living in London proper you may be able to dispense almost entirely from the car, which is terribly expensive to maintain wherever you live(taxes, insurance, petrol and parking could easily fetch you 6 or 7 thousand pounds a year!).

One of the advantages of living out of London proper is that you find cheaper housing, but that normally is negated by the cost of public transport and car maintenance (and all is dull and boring when compared to London)."_

You mention Car Ownership IN the UK - again ASSUMING it is terribly expensive to own and maintain a car - not realizing that owning and maintaining a car in India or Singapore can be perhaps even more expensive.... that's all.


----------



## Kitara (Nov 29, 2011)

some input from a Singaporean.. 

To a Singaporean, Car in UK are fairly cheap.. however, petrol can be expensive...

Salary in UK is not that great when i think of the tax.. exposure is good. health care is good because of tax. + and - point..

weather: to me weather is good because we don't get 4 season in sg.

i have been to north India twice.. i am sorry to say as per personal experience, i don't feel safe.. i only feel safe in Kashmir probably because of the number of army around.. i get constant harassment from the local.. no offence.. just personal experience..

i feel safe walking around London on my own.. as mention there are place where there are drug addict.. maybe you can do some research on that.. 

by the way, alot of Singaporean stay around kensington area. please note that, it is an expensive area.


----------



## togo_ornot (Jan 9, 2012)

I will be moving from singapore to the UK as well. 

i have asked similar questions to this forum and they have been kind enough to answer most of my queries to satisfaction. 

first off, you say in your posting that you current "combined" salary in sg is 160k, how much of this is yours as i believe only you will be working in UK (again form your posting). if it is a 100k sgd, i am sure your employer wouldnt offer more than 60k in the uk.

the issue with the salaries in the uk is this: local salaries there have only inflation adjusted over the past few years. while for people form outside the UK their salary looks lower due to the massive drop against their own currencies (i mean from south east asia only). against the SGD it has fallen from 3 to 1.9 now over the past 5 or 6 years.

i am not sure about the cost of living comparison etc, as i have not lived in london yet. but i do think that if your own salary in sg is 160k, you should be able to ask for more than 60in the uk. the job market is no so good in the uk unless your spouse is sure to find a job (read: in a niche field that is in demand in the UK)

also, having heard responses from a lot of people on the forum, i do have to honestly mention that your nationality / origin and your current living style always matter when you ask a question about safety / cost of living in the UK etc. but i have no way of telling you how to ask a directed question in a forum like this, where i feel 80% of the people are very helpful and friendly. i would if i wante dto though


----------



## Guest (Feb 9, 2012)

Kitara said:


> some input from a Singaporean..
> 
> To a Singaporean, Car in UK are fairly cheap.. however, petrol can be expensive...
> 
> ...


Just like you feel safe in Kensington - there are plenty of areas in Delhi which are as good and just as expensive as Kensington and actually even better - and if you live in those areas you can be safe. India with 1.2 billion people and a lot of poor - is not a country where you can walk around on the streets - you need to be driven around - but please go try walking around in Brixton or Hackney or even Vauxhall - and see how safe you feel in those areas of London....go try walking in earls court after 9 pm..in India you get harassed by poor people but they don't attack and kill anyone...and anyway I know Singapore quite well too, in fact I know the wealthiest families in Singapore and how they live - of course I do think it is a high quality of life compared to india and UK as well...but definitely all of UK is not a great place to live for sure.

And yes cost of car ownership in UK compared to India is also cheap now.


----------



## Kitara (Nov 29, 2011)

yes i have been to hackney before.. i don't feel unsafe but i realise that my husband was rushing me to get out of hackney.. after we left hackney, i asked him the reason for rushing out.. he pointed to me that those begger is a drug addict.. 

however, i like swindon as it is as clean as Singapore.. just need to adapt the slow pace in life...


----------



## jlms (May 15, 2008)

This is pointless.

I would just add that if you really believe what one of the most scandalous tabloids in the UK says (they are caught lying so often that it is no longer news) then you should look for other sources of information. Curiously the same newspaper would be the first to tell you that we should not be giving aid to India because they choose to invest in a space program and nuclear weapons instead of bringing the downtrodden out of poverty. That is the gutter press you are quoting.

I have been to both the US and South Africa in several occasions, no place in the UK reaches the levels of violence in those countries, specially in inner urban areas (hint: we don't have guns here).


----------



## Guest (Feb 9, 2012)

Well I am not saying UK is downright dangerous and unsafe - however I have lived in other parts of Europe - compared to Paris, London is a lot more unsafe really...again there is a lot of poverty in Paris too but not of a "dangerous" kind. You say that UK tabloids talk nonsense - sorry I disagree - there is a very major rise in violent city crimes in the UK - an Indian student was shot dead for no reason in Manchester recently - I am sure you know the story, many such shootings, racist murders and attacks are happening on a daily basis in UK - which is much higher than anywhere else in the "western" world. Also there is a reason why these countries are cleaner - look at the taxes you pay, look at the work culture, but despite the high taxes in UK crime is still quite bad. In my opinion many other countries in western Europe are 100 times safer than UK - and again I say this because I have actually lived in many places i.e. spent more than 6 months and not just visited. Sorry but I still think that UK is one of the most violent and dangerous western country to live in now - if you are a millionaire and can afford to jet in and out of London, live in Kensington and be driven around everywhere then it is fine and enjoyable - but otherwise I don't find it safe at all. Even the actress Joan Collins moved out of London because she felt unsafe, under labour crime in UK shot up very badly ad most places outside London are quite racist to live as well. In fact even when I lived in the US it felt a lot more safer - maybe because it's a much larger country and crime in USA is concentrated to certain areas... in UK as someone mentioned previously - one street is good and the next street over is full of danger...it's a very mixed up environment...in the US despite the higher levels of crime - due to the size and population of the country it feels a lot more safer as long as you know what cities and areas to avoid. Go try living in Rural Britain in all white areas and see how many racist attacks happen there. If you want to convince yourself that UK is the best place to live in - then so be it but facts are facts.


----------



## nyclon (Apr 3, 2011)

> Sorry but I still think that UK is one of the most violent and dangerous western country to live in now


- 

And yet according to another post you want nothing more then to spend time here:




> If I switch to a long term tourist visa and just buy a property in Central London - then would it be a huge deal if I come and go freely in and out of London and own a car, apartment etc.?





> if you are a millionaire and can afford to jet in and out of London, live in Kensington and be driven around everywhere then it is fine and enjoyable - but otherwise I don't find it safe at all.


According to a previous post you are. 




> I'm a multi-millionaire...


So, stop complaining and avoid those places if they make you uncomfortable.


----------



## Kitara (Nov 29, 2011)

Since you are a 'millionaire', why dont u just stay in switzerland. I believe they welcome the RICH.. 

Since UK is such a bad place for you, why do you want to spend time and money in UK?


----------



## Guest (Feb 9, 2012)

Kitara said:


> Since you are a 'millionaire', why dont u just stay in switzerland. I believe they welcome the RICH..
> 
> Since UK is such a bad place for you, why do you want to spend time and money in UK?


Because I find switzerland very boring, I am single and for me enjoying big cities and hopping around the world is more fun... im not interested in marrying and having a family and "settling" down really.. not now anyway.....I would move to switzerland eventually once I get tired of partying...lol....but it's really a clean, safe and boring country. And I only spend time in central london - I have no interest in the rest of UK...but I admit the country has a high level of services, international culture, great exclusive places to go out - it all comes at a price though....if I had to work in a job and build a life then seriously UK would be the last country I would chose - I would probably stay in that case either in Asia or continental europe.


----------



## Thom1085 (Jan 16, 2012)

As an observer here I'm pretty sure you are trying to wind people up here and provoke them. I also find it strange that there is another account on the French forum who claims to be a multi-millionaire of Indian origin who is making similar ridiculous and unintelligent generalisations about the UK. 

Please can no one else rise to this guy. If it is a real account then I pity you, as you clearly know nothing about the UK and our people.


----------



## Guest (Feb 9, 2012)

Im not trying to wind anyone up - sorry the post is about "safety" in london and there is another dedicated thread on that topic as well. I am not the only one who feels UK is not the "safest" place to live as a foreigner - in fact I know many British who have left UK for this reason so not sure why you get upset about it. I recognize both good and bad things about UK - and for some things yes I agree that is is far better than most other places in the world but when it comes to crime and safety - there is seriously an Issue in UK - and the longer you ignore this issue the worse it will get. A lot of British also blame it on immigrants but take a look at the crime statistics and it will be clear what the real problem in UK Is. 

On a separate note - I have plenty of British friends who do agree with me, and despite all the problems, London is special to me...

P.S - I am seriously not trying to wind people up...and have said all I wanted - will stop posting any further now....thanks!!


----------



## John Larke (Feb 4, 2012)

boblah said:


> Hello Everyone,
> 
> Hope someone can help me. My company asked me to move to London from Singapore. I am married with 1 child (not yet of school age). Our combined annual salary is around $160,000. The company offer 60,000 pounds gross.
> 
> ...


Hi we live just outside London, is the company helping you with accomodation?
If they arent the 60,000 will be a little tight if you plan on living in London and renting. Have you considered living outside of London my be Essex although still pricey not as expensive as London itself and very easy to commute.

Let us know if you need any more helplane:


----------



## boblah (Sep 30, 2010)

John Larke said:


> Hi we live just outside London, is the company helping you with accomodation?
> If they arent the 60,000 will be a little tight if you plan on living in London and renting. Have you considered living outside of London my be Essex although still pricey not as expensive as London itself and very easy to commute.
> 
> Let us know if you need any more helplane:



thanks john. it seems they are not helping with accommodation... still discussing. thanks


----------



## boblah (Sep 30, 2010)

togo_ornot said:


> I will be moving from singapore to the UK as well.
> 
> i have asked similar questions to this forum and they have been kind enough to answer most of my queries to satisfaction.
> 
> ...


thanks togo for the inputs!


----------



## boblah (Sep 30, 2010)

Kitara said:


> some input from a Singaporean..
> 
> To a Singaporean, Car in UK are fairly cheap.. however, petrol can be expensive...
> 
> ...


thank you kitara for the info...


----------



## rolfen (Nov 24, 2014)

Nobody lives in zone 1 except rich arabs.
Live in Zone 2 or 3, such as Chelsea or Hackney, trendy and safe areas. You can rent a decent 2 room flat at 400/month. You will enjoy hackney as long as you don't get a phobia attack or a nervous breakdown when you see a Rastafarian or pass next to someone smoking weed on the street (yeah that same drug that will get you capital punishment in Singapore). There is the olympic park there, Victoria park, and it's next to Shoreditch! Chelsea, on the other hand, is very "white", middle class, residential calm area.
A salary of 60K for a family sounds less than the standard you're having in Singapore (although I wouldn't really known, never been there!). It will not get you fancy car, best schools, condo or house, just average stuff. but as to whether you can live a decent life with this the answer is yes, using the common definition of "decent".
If you want the experience then consider it.


----------



## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

This is nearly 3-year old thread and the poster hasn't been back since Feb 2012. So I doubt they are still following our discussions.


----------

