# Gestor



## Jamie1978 (Jan 7, 2009)

Hi.
I'm looking for 'inside' information on long term residency. I'm heading to Murcia in March. Would it be a good idea to meet up with a Gestor and/or visit a local town hall or police station.
If so, could anybody recommend a good one, and are there specific days when town halls/police stations are open for this kind of information?

Thanks in advance for any help and information.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Jamie1978 said:


> Hi.
> I'm looking for 'inside' information on long term residency. I'm heading to Murcia in March. Would it be a good idea to meet up with a Gestor and/or visit a local town hall or police station.
> If so, could anybody recommend a good one, and are there specific days when town halls/police stations are open for this kind of information?
> 
> Thanks in advance for any help and information.


:welcome:

you don't say where you're from - but if you're from within the EU you really don't need a gestor - it's a very straightforward process

take a look at http://www.expatforum.com/expats/sp...-living-spain/2725-faqs-lots-useful-info.html - the first post has lots of info about registering as resident

if you aren't from the EU, that's a whole different ballgame & you'd need to sort out a resident visa before coming


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## Jamie1978 (Jan 7, 2009)

I'm sorry, I'm from the UK.

Thank you for your reply.
I intend to work on a self employed basis.
Would it be required that I have residency before opening a business?
Also, I understand I will need to give a fixed address, so presuming I'll have to take out a long term lease on a property before I apply?

I have been reading a lot on the process but good to hear from people who have already been through or familiar with the process.

Thanks again.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Jamie1978 said:


> I'm sorry, I'm from the UK.
> 
> Thank you for your reply.
> I intend to work on a self employed basis.
> ...



In that case, yes you would need a Gestor to advise you on becoming autonomo. This you would need to do to ensure you have health cover and can become a resident. The cost is around 250€ a month, altho I believe there is a reduced fee for the first 6 months or so???? 

You can rent a property without being a resident altho you will need an NIE number which you can obtain from the foreigners office/national police station fairly easily

Jo xxx


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

Jamie1978 said:


> I'm sorry, I'm from the UK.
> 
> Thank you for your reply.
> I intend to work on a self employed basis.
> ...


No you don't.

My order would be;

Find somewhere to live
Open bank account
Start the registration process and get your NIE (could get NIE first but you don't have to)
Get SS number and sort out autonomo (self employed status)
Organise health care

I've probably forgotten things but that's the basics.


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## Jamie1978 (Jan 7, 2009)

Hi Xabiachica,

I see you teach English. Is there any way I could find details of your tuition please?

Thank you


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Jamie1978 said:


> I'm sorry, I'm from the UK.
> 
> Thank you for your reply.
> I intend to work on a self employed basis.
> ...


no you wouldn't have to be resident before registering as self-employed

you would have to have a fixed address, so yes, a long term rental contract 
have a read of the MOVING TO SPAIN document on the link I gave you - that explains the steps

this might also interest you 
AUTÓNOMO PAYMENTS TARIFA PLANA


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

jojo said:


> In that case, yes you would need a Gestor to advise you on becoming autonomo. This you would need to do to ensure you have health cover and can become a resident. The cost is around 250€ a month, altho I believe there is a reduced fee for the first 6 months or so????
> 
> You can rent a property without being a resident altho you will need an NIE number which you can obtain from the foreigners office/national police station fairly easily
> 
> Jo xxx


it isn't essential to use a gestor to register as autónomo - but for sure it makes life easier!


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Jamie1978 said:


> Hi Xabiachica,
> 
> I see you teach English. Is there any way I could find details of your tuition please?
> 
> Thank you


See Xabiachicas signature in red at the bottom of her posts

Jo xxx


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## Helenameva (Aug 15, 2014)

xabiachica said:


> you don't say where you're from - but if you're from within the EU you really don't need a gestor - it's a very straightforward process


I would agree with this if you can speak Spanish fluently or can go with somebody who is. If you can't it'll bé impossible and if you need a gestor any way (if you want to be self-employed) maybe it's best to get one on board early.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Jamie1978 said:


> Hi Xabiachica,
> 
> I see you teach English. Is there any way I could find details of your tuition please?
> 
> Thank you


I teach Spanish  

I don't think you need English lessons !


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Helenameva said:


> I would agree with this if you can speak Spanish fluently or can go with somebody who is. If you can't it'll bé impossible and if you need a gestor any way (if you want to be self-employed) maybe it's best to get one on board early.


just to register as resident, depending on where you are maybe, you really don't need a gestor

as long as you have the correct paperwork you don't even have to say anything

but yes, for registering as autónomo, even if you speak Spanish - it's a whole lot easier to use a gestor


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## Jamie1978 (Jan 7, 2009)

I'm currently learning, certainly not fluent unfortunately.
I'm heading out in March on more of a fact finding mission.
I intend to set up and relocate around August 2016.
I think it would be useful to spend an hour with somebody with the knowledge I need to learn.
Is there anyone that accommodates this sort of communication?
I'm flying to Alicante but will be heading up to Barcelona and back down to the Murcia region over 5 days, so am really flexible about where and when to get a meeting.

Thank you to everybody for your help.


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## Helenameva (Aug 15, 2014)

xabiachica said:


> just to register as resident, depending on where you are maybe, you really don't need a gestor
> 
> as long as you have the correct paperwork you don't even have to say anything


In my experience I would disagree and for the sake of a few euros it's worth it to save the hassle. You have enough to deal with when relocating.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Helenameva said:


> In my experience I would disagree and for the sake of a few euros it's worth it to save the hassle. You have enough to deal with when relocating.


a few euros??
around here they are charging about 100€ per person - & you _really _don't need help at our extranjería, because there is almost always someone on duty who speaks English

when the cert costs under 11€..... & it isn't a hassle anyway - & you have to attend in person even if you have a gestor


as I said though - it depends where you are


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## Jamie1978 (Jan 7, 2009)

Could anyone recommend a Gestor or someone who knows the procedures in the Murcia region (or wider radius, 30 miles) who is available for an hour around mid March? I'm flexible.

Xabiachica - you're right, my English isn't too bad. I will pm you regarding tuition.


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## Jamie1978 (Jan 7, 2009)

Do the Autonomo payments cover the tax, or is it a fee just to be self employed?


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Jamie1978 said:


> Do the Autonomo payments cover the tax, or is it a fee just to be self employed?


Its the fee to be self employed. I'm not sure of the start up amount, or even if its applicable in all cases. But it will end up around 250€ a month. Tax is a separate payment

Jo xxx


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## Jamie1978 (Jan 7, 2009)

Thanks Jo.

It seems like quite a lot of money to be self employed.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Jamie1978 said:


> Thanks Jo.
> 
> It seems like quite a lot of money to be self employed.


 Yes and it seems silly that its not income related - even if you earn nothing,, you have to pay. But there has been this change recently whereby there is a cheaper start up fee. But it does cover your healthcare fees etc

Jo xxx


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## Jamie1978 (Jan 7, 2009)

Yes, it does seem steep. 

I have a business registered in the UK. Do you know if it's possible to keep it as a UK company and pay alternative taxes in Spain? Ie, employing myself in Spain?


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## Sunny Jim1 (Jan 20, 2015)

Just for your information it's much more difficult to get Residencia now
On top of all the general requirements needed you must provide proof of income in Spain of 619.00 euros pm. (per person) and proof that you have paid for private medical cover.
Hope this helps you a little.


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## Jamie1978 (Jan 7, 2009)

Thanks Sunny Jim

So would proof of income from the gym I am a partner in be acceptable?

Also, would it be a case of paying monthly for healthcare as proof?

I also compete professionally in sport. Would this count towards my proof of income?

Thanks for your help


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Jamie1978 said:


> Thanks Sunny Jim
> 
> So would proof of income from the gym I am a partner in be acceptable?
> 
> ...



they want to see the money going into a Spanish bank account & a 'suitable' healthcare policy from a Spanish provider


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Sunny Jim1 said:


> Just for your information it's much more difficult to get Residencia now
> On top of all the general requirements needed you must provide proof of income in Spain of 619.00 euros pm. (per person) and proof that you have paid for private medical cover.
> Hope this helps you a little.


where did you get that figure from?

the govt guidelines don't give a precise figure anywhere, & different offices ask for different amounts

Denia told someone I know that they need 10,000€ in the bank a few weeks ago - an English person

also - you don't 'get residencia' - only non-EU citizens ahve to apply for residencia

EU citizens simply register as resident


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## Sunny Jim1 (Jan 20, 2015)

Jamie1978 said:


> Thanks Sunny Jim
> 
> So would proof of income from the gym I am a partner in be acceptable?
> 
> ...


Same answer as XabiachicaJamie1978
If you need good legal advice then I can put you in contact with a friend who is a Lawyer.


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## Sunny Jim1 (Jan 20, 2015)

xabiachica said:


> where did you get that figure from?
> 
> the govt guidelines don't give a precise figure anywhere, & different offices ask for different amounts
> 
> ...


The info came directly from the "oficina de extranjeros denia" just last week. These are the latest requirements.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Sunny Jim1 said:


> Same answer as XabiachicaJamie1978
> If you need good legal advice then I can put you in contact with a friend who is a Lawyer.



a lawyer??

to register as resident??

a gestor maybe..... but seriously, you can do it yourself


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Sunny Jim1 said:


> The info came directly from the "oficina de extranjeros denia" just last week. These are the latest requirements.


it's worth bearing in mind that that figure *will *vary from extranjería to extranjería


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## Jamie1978 (Jan 7, 2009)

Ok, so the 10,000 euros in 'my' Spanish account. How is this checked on? Will I need 3 months bank statements of my wages going into it from our business?


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## Jamie1978 (Jan 7, 2009)

...and it is possible that someone even in the EU will be denied long term 1-5 year residency?


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Jamie1978 said:


> ...and it is possible that someone even in the EU will be denied long term 1-5 year residency?


it's not very likely that they'd refuse to let you register, as long as you meet the, let's face it, pretty low financial requirement & have healthcare in place

they aren't granting you residency - so can't deny it

it's simply a requirement that you register your presence - & there's no time limit on it - but after 5 years you're entitled to permanent residency


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Jamie1978 said:


> Ok, so the 10,000 euros in 'my' Spanish account. How is this checked on? Will I need 3 months bank statements of my wages going into it from our business?


the requirement is generally either the 600ish € per month or 6000ish€ in the bank - & yes, bank statements

but istr that you'll be registering as autónomo?

all you'd need is your autónomo registration papers - that covers the income & healthcare requirements regardless of your income


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## Jamie1978 (Jan 7, 2009)

But if I wasn't to comply with the stipulations, I could still be resident?

Certainly not that that's what I would do.
I'm just trying to understand if I can or can't be resident and what it is exactly I need, if I do actually need it.

Obviously, a reasonable sum of money and health care should be a priority, but what if this wasn't in place. Would I be removed from the country.
Again, this is not anything I would do, just playing devils advocate to understand the process.


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## Sunny Jim1 (Jan 20, 2015)

Dear Xabiachica,
Did I say anywhere in my post that he needed a Lawyer?
I merely was offering some free advice from my Lawyer friend. I though the purpose of most Forums was to help people !!!!!!!


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## Jamie1978 (Jan 7, 2009)

For the record guys, I really appreciate all help.

I understand it's a complex process (or not!?), but I'm happy to bounce ideas and information around, whether or not some may be different for whatever reason :v:


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Jamie1978 said:


> But if I wasn't to comply with the stipulations, I could still be resident?
> 
> Certainly not that that's what I would do.
> I'm just trying to understand if I can or can't be resident and what it is exactly I need, if I do actually need it.
> ...


actually yes - you could stay - they won't deport you for not registering, but you could be fined - you'd have to show that you have tried to register as resident, even if you didn't manage it - should you be questioned

but..... it's increasingly difficult to do a lot of things without that green paper/card


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Sunny Jim1 said:


> Dear Xabiachica,
> Did I say anywhere in my post that he needed a Lawyer?
> I merely was offering some free advice from my Lawyer friend. I though the purpose of most Forums was to help people !!!!!!!


yes, to help people - not to drum up business for friends


& since we're talking about registering as resident, it was a logical conclusion that you were offering to put him in touch with a lawyer to help him

& you didn't mention that it would be free...........


just about all lawyers in Spain will give a first appointment free, anyway


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## Sunny Jim1 (Jan 20, 2015)

xabiachica said:


> yes, to help people - not to drum up business for friends
> 
> 
> & since we're talking about registering as resident, it was a logical conclusion that you were offering to put him in touch with a lawyer to help him
> ...


Think that's the problem with societyToo many people jump to conclusions!!!!!!


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## Jamie1978 (Jan 7, 2009)

Do it's really mainly about the green A4 piece of paper that will enable me to certain 'privelages'?

Hopefully, with my income and proof of funds in a Spanish account, I'll get the 'residency'

So in order; 
1. Open non resident bank account 3-4 months before.
2. Secure long term lease on a property.
3. Apply for 1-5 years residency?

.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Jamie1978 said:


> Do it's really mainly about the green A4 piece of paper that will enable me to certain 'privelages'?
> 
> Hopefully, with my income and proof of funds in a Spanish account, I'll get the 'residency'
> 
> ...


your number 3 - again - you do not _apply for residency_ in any way shape or form.

1) Open non-resident bank account if possible before moving here, but it isn't essential to do so - it can be done when you arrive
2) Secure long term lease on a property
3) Get NIE number
4) Register on padrón
5) Register as autónomo
6) Go to INSS for Social Security number
7) Register at the local centro de salud
8) Register as resident
9) Take resident certificate/card to the bank to make sure your account is changed to a resident one


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Sunny Jim1 said:


> Think that's the problem with societyToo many people jump to conclusions!!!!!!










mod hat on 


no conclusions jumped to - just my spideymodertatorsenses twitching.....


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## alborino (Dec 13, 2014)

Jamie1978 said:


> Yes, it does seem steep.
> 
> I have a business registered in the UK. Do you know if it's possible to keep it as a UK company and pay alternative taxes in Spain? Ie, employing myself in Spain?


Jamie are you taking about a limited company or a partnership or a sole trader when you say business?

A limited company would be very different as it is a being/entity in its own legal right and you would be seen by the spanish as a share holder.

However how the spanish would see the asset value might be an arguable legal point. 

But for sure nothing stops you being an autonomo paid by a limited company in the UK. Even if pay means dividends - you just declare them 

If on the otherhand you are a sole trader then see no advantage in maintaining it in the UK. If a partnership obviously depends on who your partner is.

One thing I can tell you is it is virtually impossible to get the spanish (authorities or independent advisor) to give you a certain answer


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## Jamie1978 (Jan 7, 2009)

I'm in a business partnership in the UK. It seems as though gaining 'residency' on the grounds of being self sufficient might be the most simple route, then register as self employed once I have new busibess set up in Spain/Murcia


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## Jamie1978 (Jan 7, 2009)

I'd still be paying taxes in the UK on my earnings from our business, which I understand is fine as per agreement between governments?


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## alborino (Dec 13, 2014)

Jamie1978 said:


> I'd still be paying taxes in the UK on my earnings from our business, which I understand is fine as per agreement between governments?


There is no issue where you pay tax (beyond some variations in amounts) as you will not in the end get taxed twice. More the problems are:

Where will you accumulate benefits - spain is a contribution based system.
You need to get access to health cover by working in Spain (unless you want to pay for private cover)
But you do not want to have a complex set up so that you pay a gestor each year to resolve issues.

You need also to consider state pension as there are options there. However the good thing is that state pensions based on multiple contributions in multiple EU countries are very clear and well documented.


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

Jamie1978 said:


> I'd still be paying taxes in the UK on my earnings from our business, which I understand is fine as per agreement between governments?


So, as Alboino says, you will pay tax in UK BUT you will also have to make a declaration in Spain on ALL world-wide income.

This may (in all probability) result in you paying a small amount of tax in Spain. This is the tax that you should pay in Spain, LESS what tax you've already paid in UK.

So, two tax returns - one in UK and one in Spain.


In Spain, the SS payments are FIXED and are not a percentage of earnings - be aware of this as they can be expensive/realistic.


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## alborino (Dec 13, 2014)

snikpoh said:


> This may (in all probability) result in you paying a small amount of tax in Spain.


snikpoh do you know how this impacts accrued spanish benefits by chance?

This is like the problem of using a limited UK company to pay dividends. Yes you may pay much less tax (as in tax incl. things like NI and autonomo) but you are not accumulating benefits.


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

alborino said:


> snikpoh do you know how this impacts accrued spanish benefits by chance?
> 
> This is like the problem of using a limited UK company to pay dividends. Yes you may pay much less tax (as in tax incl. things like NI and autonomo) but you are not accumulating benefits.


Sorry, it's absolutely not my area of expertise.


I don't even know if it's paying the SS payments or the tax that accumulates benefits in Spain (actually I think it is the tax but don't take my word for it).


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## Jamie1978 (Jan 7, 2009)

Say I'm to fund myself from the income provided by a UK business, still paying tax and NI. Surely this would mean I'm not liable for tax again in Spain. I thought this was the agreement between the two nations?


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## alborino (Dec 13, 2014)

Jamie1978 said:


> Say I'm to fund myself from the income provided by a UK business, still paying tax and NI. Surely this would mean I'm not liable for tax again in Spain. I thought this was the agreement between the two nations?


If you are a tax resident in Spain as said you will need to report on everything in and out of Spain to Spain and they will determine the additional tax, if any, to be paid.

And remember that if something is tax exempt in the UK it still will be tax assessed in Spain.

It is really worth getting to grips with this and exploring all the options. But remember sunshine is still last time I looked tax free in Spain


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

Jamie1978 said:


> Say I'm to fund myself from the income provided by a UK business, still paying tax and NI. Surely this would mean I'm not liable for tax again in Spain. I thought this was the agreement between the two nations?


No, the agreement is that you don't pay tax on the same income twice.


But;

You MUST fill in a tax form in both countries
Due to the differences in tax rates and different allowances, this MIGHT result in extra tax being paid in Spain


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## Jamie1978 (Jan 7, 2009)

Perfect. Thanks.


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