# just out of interest



## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

In the UK if a young girl falls pregnant, hasnt worked and has no help from the babies father or her parents, she generally would be given a council flat and welfare. What happens in Spain? Is the a similar welfare system or is it only paid out if its been paid in? I know there is some form of social housing but does it favour single mums etc???

I´m just curious?

Jo x


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## SteveHall (Oct 17, 2008)

There is social housing here but a child is not a meal ticket in Spain.


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## Caz.I (Mar 21, 2009)

SteveHall said:


> There is social housing here but a child is not a meal ticket in Spain.


 A meal ticket! What are you on about??!! You seriously believe that all single mothers who claim benefits are using the child as a meal ticket? Welfare benefits for single mothers who tend to be at a serious social disadvantage in society hardly constitute a meal ticket. The fact is, and I know it is because I actually live it, to bring up a child alone in any society which values the strong over the weak, means a constant fight for survival. Especially here in Spain where large families are deemed morally acceptable and deserving of some compassion (though not that much) - hence some benefits but practically zero for single parent families - and one-parent ones less deserving. If there was a level playing field ie. fathers that take financial responsibility for their children and/or the opportunity for single mothers to either work part-time with some additional help, or full-time with working hours that coincide with school ones - ie. 9 to 5), then the need for financial help would be much less (though probably not right now with the credit crunch). There has long been talk here of more companies changing their opening hours to standard European ones but it hasnt happened yet. But you seem to be simply repeating old stereotypes of the Daily Mail/Express mindset that view anyone not in the conventional 2 parent family mould as somehow looking for a free ride. And that is not reality!! And its not on!!


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

Caz.I said:


> A meal ticket! What are you on about??!! You seriously believe that all single mothers who claim benefits are using the child as a meal ticket? Welfare benefits for single mothers who tend to be at a serious social disadvantage in society hardly constitute a meal ticket. The fact is, and I know it is because I actually live it, to bring up a child alone in any society which values the strong over the weak, means a constant fight for survival. Especially here in Spain where large families are deemed morally acceptable and deserving of some compassion (though not that much) - hence some benefits but practically zero for single parent families - and one-parent ones less deserving. If there was a level playing field ie. fathers that take financial responsibility for their children and/or the opportunity for single mothers to either work part-time with some additional help, or full-time with working hours that coincide with school ones - ie. 9 to 5), then the need for financial help would be much less (though probably not right now with the credit crunch). There has long been talk here of more companies changing their opening hours to standard European ones but it hasnt happened yet. But you seem to be simply repeating old stereotypes of the Daily Mail/Express mindset that view anyone not in the conventional 2 parent family mould as somehow looking for a free ride. And that is not reality!! And its not on!!


Thats an interesting first post considering you dont know the poster and his views, who I'm pretty sure was using that just as a turn of phrase


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## Caz.I (Mar 21, 2009)

jojo said:


> In the UK if a young girl falls pregnant, hasnt worked and has no help from the babies father or her parents, she generally would be given a council flat and welfare. What happens in Spain? Is the a similar welfare system or is it only paid out if its been paid in? I know there is some form of social housing but does it favour single mums etc???
> 
> I´m just curious?
> 
> Jo x


Feel a bit better now I have got that last post out. Am not a complete expert in this, though as a single mother, having to learn about some of these things. But I imagine if she was under 18, Social Services may have to take her and her baby into care, rather than give her a council flat. Single mothers are not favoured here (see my previous post) in any sense. The only social housing I know of is VPO housing which is subsidised housing that anyone can apply to buy if they are on a low income. But it is totally over subscribed and I know from one of my friends who have applied, not necessarily that cheap (compared to council housing) and with possible dodgy deals between construction companies and town halls, can be as equally fraught with difficulties as the private market. If she was over 18 with no family help, she may end up on the streets, unless she could get help from Social Security or some kind of charity. The only specific help available for single mothers as far as I can tell, is 25 euros a month (yes a month!) from Social Security if you earn less than 11,000 euros a year. It is higher for large families, though not much but there tends to be more help for large families, and a single mother with 2 or more children is apparently (in theory may not be in practice) classed as large family in some situations. In the state schools and nurseries, in theory (!) you can get more points for your application and some discounts on school dinners or after school activities if you are a one parent or large family. The problem is proving it. I do get the same discount as most parents, but not as much as I would if I was recognised as a one parent family. Apparently, I didnt have the right paperwork, to prove it so, despite being a single mother since my son was born, the school wouldnt accept that I was a one parent family, though I was accepted as one when he was in the state nursery when I applied to the school - but thats Spanish bureaucracy for you. I wouldnt wish this lifestyle on anyone. Its not exactly a barrel of laughs. Still, I am lucky my son's father takes some responsibility for him and I do have every second weekend off motherhood which is more than most mums! So some of my married friends are jealous!


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## Caz.I (Mar 21, 2009)

Stravinsky said:


> Thats an interesting first post considering you dont know the poster and his views, who I'm pretty sure was using that just as a turn of phrase


Well, firstly, as you will note, that is why I used question marks in my first two sentences, as I was questioning why he used that particular turn of phrase. But, secondly, the phrase, "a child is not a meal ticket in Spain" referring as it does to social benefits here in Spain, in itself does tend to imply that the person posting believes there is a connection between single mothers claiming benefits and using children as an excuse not to work. Thirdly, having read a lot of posts on this site i was surprised to hear that expression from that particular person. But I am sure he is big enough and grown up enough to answer for himself, so let's see. And fourthly, its personally insulting, to be stereotyped in such a way, and I didnt think this site would encourage that.


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

Caz.I said:


> Well, firstly, as you will note, that is why I used question marks in my first two sentences, as I was questioning why he used that particular turn of phrase. But, secondly, the phrase, "a child is not a meal ticket in Spain" referring as it does to social benefits here in Spain, in itself does tend to imply that the person posting believes there is a connection between single mothers claiming benefits and using children as an excuse not to work. Thirdly, having read a lot of posts on this site i was surprised to hear that expression from that particular person. But I am sure he is big enough and grown up enough to answer for himself, so let's see. And fourthly, its personally insulting, to be stereotyped in such a way, and I didnt think this site would encourage that.


This forum, as does any forum around, allows everyone to have their point of view however much other people might agree with them. Free speech, within the rules of course.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Caz.I said:


> A meal ticket! What are you on about??!! You seriously believe that all single mothers who claim benefits are using the child as a meal ticket? Welfare benefits for single mothers who tend to be at a serious social disadvantage in society hardly constitute a meal ticket. The fact is, and I know it is because I actually live it, to bring up a child alone in any society which values the strong over the weak, means a constant fight for survival. Especially here in Spain where large families are deemed morally acceptable and deserving of some compassion (though not that much) - hence some benefits but practically zero for single parent families - and one-parent ones less deserving. If there was a level playing field ie. fathers that take financial responsibility for their children and/or the opportunity for single mothers to either work part-time with some additional help, or full-time with working hours that coincide with school ones - ie. 9 to 5), then the need for financial help would be much less (though probably not right now with the credit crunch). There has long been talk here of more companies changing their opening hours to standard European ones but it hasnt happened yet. But you seem to be simply repeating old stereotypes of the Daily Mail/Express mindset that view anyone not in the conventional 2 parent family mould as somehow looking for a free ride. And that is not reality!! And its not on!!


I only asked!!! Personally I think if a girl gets pregnant she should be forced to marry the father LOL!!! Afterall, you dont buy a car if you cant afford and you shouldnt have a baby if you cant

Jo x


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## SteveHall (Oct 17, 2008)

Wow! You must be happy to get that off your chest. So far this week I have been called an estate agent and a Daily Express reader! Whatever next? Gay? Arsenal fan? 

I think that you have a weak understanding of the Spanish position on at least two matters

1) "There has long been talk here of more companies changing their opening hours to standard European ones but it hasnt happened " Why should it? Estamos en España. 

and re their position on the number of children in a union. Perhaps it is best summed up as: La gloria de la familia es su fecundidad. Que un hombre y una mujer se una para ser felices y satisfacer sus pasiones no entraña ninguna nobleza especial, pero que una sus vidas en vistas a una obra que los trasciende, poniendo en el mundo a otros hombres que continuarán la tradición que ellos a su vez recibieron de sus padres, y que el fin de su matrimonio consista en la creación del ambiente mas favorable al nacimiento y educación de los hijos, eso da al matrimonio una nobleza tal, que ennoblece a los que a él se consagran. 

Las familias numerosas contribuyen a la unión de los esposos y a la educación de los hijos. Esto es discutido por algunos sociólogos, pero para demostrarlo reproduciremos las conclusiones de algunos estudios científicos al respecto. 

...and that is perhaps why I am Yorkshire by birth and español de corazón.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

SteveHall said:


> Wow! You must be happy to get that off your chest. So far this week I have been called an estate agent and a Daily Express reader! Whatever next? Gay? Arsenal fan?
> 
> I think that you have a weak understanding of the Spanish position on at least two matters
> 
> ...


Cos I´m now totally fluent in spanish, I understand all of that and totally agree!!!!! Hey, you could employ me now Steve LOL!!!

Jo xxxx


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## Caz.I (Mar 21, 2009)

jojo said:


> I only asked!!! Personally I think if a girl gets pregnant she should be forced to marry the father LOL!!! Afterall, you dont buy a car if you cant afford and you shouldnt have a baby if you cant
> 
> Jo x


Jo, I posted my reply to you further up the page as I ended up replying to Steve Halls before yours, so that comment you replied to was not directed at you. And, erm, more to the point try telling the father that - that he has to marry the girl he got pregnant! And watch him run! Interesting analogy though it doesnt apply to me and its very easy to sit in judgement of single mothers - in most societies they are the easy targets, so anyone who feels they are in a morally superior position tends to attack them. (Usually this is a way of stopping them looking too deeply at their own failings) None of you are remotely qualified to sit in judgement of me, not knowing me nor my circumstances. Sorry you are not enlightened enough to back this one up.


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## Xose (Dec 10, 2008)

SteveHall said:


> Wow! You must be happy to get that off your chest. So far this week I have been called an estate agent and a Daily Express reader! Whatever next? Gay? Arsenal fan?
> 
> I think that you have a weak understanding of the Spanish position on at least two matters
> 
> ...


..... y a nuestras jubilaciones futuras sin tener que depender de los inmigrantes - si, en su dia, los podemos emplear en algo  therein lies the rub!


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## Caz.I (Mar 21, 2009)

Stravinsky said:


> This forum, as does any forum around, allows everyone to have their point of view however much other people might agree with them. Free speech, within the rules of course.


Well I suppose that pretty much depends on your personal interpretation of the acceptable use policy and what constitutes, offensive, discrimination, causing annoyance etc.


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## SteveHall (Oct 17, 2008)

"None of you are remotely qualified to sit in judgement of me, not knowing me nor my circumstances." - agreed 

In the same way you have not got the slightest idea about my marriages and relationships and how many children/partners I may or may not be paying for. 

Happy to talk about Spain ...but not interested in a tit-for-tat on morals/ethics.


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## SteveHall (Oct 17, 2008)

Caz.I said:


> Well I suppose that pretty much depends on your personal interpretation of the acceptable use policy and what constitutes, offensive, discrimination, causing annoyance etc.


Rule 1 of the www - do not give offence 

Rule 2 of the www - do not allow yourself to be offended 

Strav is the moderator so he is the ultimate arbitrator. Punto, final. I don't go off when people call me an estate agent and a Daily Mail reader! LOL


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Caz.I said:


> Jo, I posted my reply to you further up the page as I ended up replying to Steve Halls before yours, so that comment you replied to was not directed at you. And, erm, more to the point try telling the father that - that he has to marry the girl he got pregnant! And watch him run! Interesting analogy though it doesnt apply to me and its very easy to sit in judgement of single mothers - in most societies they are the easy targets, so anyone who feels they are in a morally superior position tends to attack them. (Usually this is a way of stopping them looking too deeply at their own failings) None of you are remotely qualified to sit in judgement of me, not knowing me nor my circumstances. Sorry you are not enlightened enough to back this one up.


Its nothing to do with morality, its to do with being responsible. As for blokes running a mile, well there are many things a woman can do to protect herself when she isnt planning to stay with a man or have a baby. I´m sorry, but having a child is the most important thing a human being can do, yet people just give birth and assume that society should take on the financial burden. Why?? Like the car analogy, its not acceptable to go and buy a car and then expect everyone else to contribute, so why a child which is infinately more important.

If it sounds like I´m taking a moral high ground, well of course I´m not. Its not the actions that is the problem, its the consequences and the "accidental" results that I think are wrong

Jo


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## Caz.I (Mar 21, 2009)

Xose said:


> ..... y a nuestras jubilaciones futuras sin tener que depender de los inmigrantes - si, en su dia, los podemos emplear en algo  therein lies the rub!


Pero, no son solamente inmigrantes que son madres solteras, espanolas sufren tambien. Ademas, los hijos de madres solteras que nacieron aqui en espana sean de inmigrantes o no, son espanoles tambien. O supongas que no? Personalmente, el padre de mi hijo es sudamericano, mi hijo solo habla castellano todavia y vivo en un ambiente espanol. Si podais aceptar este realidad significa madurez como un pais multicultural. Y cada pais o cultura tiene un valor inherente y algo especial contribuir. Vamos a ver.
(In English, now for those who may be reading this and are not fluent in Spanish - and also because have just realised that the rules say postings should be in English)
But, its not only immigrants who are single mothers, Spanish women also suffer. Besides, the children of single mothers who are born in Spain will be Spanish as well. Or do you think not? Personally, the father of my son is South American, my son speaks only Spanish yet and I live in a Spanish environment. If you can accept this reality it signifies maturity as a multicultural country. And each country or culture has an inherent value and something special ton contribute. Let's see.


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## Caz.I (Mar 21, 2009)

jojo said:


> Its nothing to do with morality, its to do with being responsible. As for blokes running a mile, well there are many things a woman can do to protect herself when she isnt planning to stay with a man or have a baby. I´m sorry, but having a child is the most important thing a human being can do, yet people just give birth and assume that society should take on the financial burden. Why?? Like the car analogy, its not acceptable to go and buy a car and then expect everyone else to contribute, so why a child which is infinately more important.
> 
> If it sounds like I´m taking a moral high ground, well of course I´m not. Its not the actions that is the problem, its the consequences and the "accidental" results that I think are wrong
> 
> Jo


Well Jo I am certainly not one of those people who you have mentioned above. But like I said before I hope you never have to face the situation I did. Then you may think differently.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

SteveHall said:


> I don't go off when people call me an estate agent and a Daily Mail reader! LOL


 ...... or gay ?!! 
Jo xx


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## SteveHall (Oct 17, 2008)

I like a woman with a sense of humour. One day you'll get one LOL


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

SteveHall said:


> I like a woman with a sense of humour. One day you'll get one LOL



huh! and what about women that sulk?? 

Jo


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## SteveHall (Oct 17, 2008)

Oh, I find a way to make them happy!


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## Caz.I (Mar 21, 2009)

SteveHall said:


> Wow! You must be happy to get that off your chest. So far this week I have been called an estate agent and a Daily Express reader! Whatever next? Gay? Arsenal fan?
> 
> I think that you have a weak understanding of the Spanish position on at least two matters
> 
> ...


If you read my post a bit more carefully, you will see that I was not directly calling you a Daily Express/Mail reader, (think may be better to be called gay) but I said you seemed to be repeating the same stereotypes that they promote and was questioning what your comment meant. (And you still havent explained it!) I do find stereotypes offensive because though they might not intend to cause offence, they frequently do by their very nature. Words can hurt, which is why I try to use them with great care. I was angry because there's too much prejudice about single mothers, which usually does not reflect the reality of people's lives, and I have to stand up for myself, cos I dont depend on anyone to do it for me.
The bit about the change of working hours to the European standard hours, was something I had heard Spanish companies were keen to implement, its difficult to know if that really is the case, but I thought it would be a good solution for a lot of people, Spanish single mothers and married mothers or fathers, or whoever. My theory is that if you actually make it easier for single mothers to work, then it will help reduce the need for welfare benefits. I think that is to be encouraged, dont you?
I am well aware that I am in Spain, I communicate in Spanish most of the time, I have relations that are South American, my son so far only speaks Spanish having been born here to a South American father and in a state nursery and then state school (with few foreigners). I do translations from time to time, hold Spanish speaking meetings in my home, do legal research in Spanish and deal with paper mountains of Spanish paperwork, schools, the Junta, Hacienda. That isnt the problem. And one's nationality doesnt necessarily prevent one from having a valid opinion or mean that suggesting change is some kind of attempt to impose one culture on another. So I understand your quote in Spanish and dont have a problem with it per se, but it doesnt explain the need to discriminate.
Dont think I have a weak understanding of the Spanish position, but feel that the historical political, social and religous background influences the reaction to the new reality of single mothers, be they divorced, widowed, abandoned, separated whatever. There is some attempts to readjust to this new reality but I have found that the people on the frontline of various institutions tend to resist it. Its certainly not something that is the sole concern of immigrants, for I know personally it is a growing problem for many Spanish women. And like I said in another post, my son will be Spanish, whether I like it or not!


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## SteveHall (Oct 17, 2008)

Final comment: I am trying to remember when my last partner was NOT a single parent. So, whilst, you may want to wear your domestic situation on your sleeve, I and (I and all the others) have the right to an opinion. 

I DO think you misunderstand the stance re the familia numerosa as these families ARE positively discriminated in favour of which tells me that this is what the state wishes to promote.

I have ABSOLUTELY no problem whether you are black or white, Latvian or lesbian, a single-parent or in a 2,3 suburban married relationship. I am NO WAY going to discriminate against you. You are entirely carbon-neutral to me. (Just tell me you are not an estate agent or a Mail reader LOL)


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Caz.I said:


> If you read my post a bit more carefully, you will see that I was not directly calling you a Daily Express/Mail reader, (think may be better to be called gay) but I said you seemed to be repeating the same stereotypes that they promote and was questioning what your comment meant. (And you still havent explained it!) I do find stereotypes offensive because though they might not intend to cause offence, they frequently do by their very nature. Words can hurt, which is why I try to use them with great care. I was angry because there's too much prejudice about single mothers, which usually does not reflect the reality of people's lives, and I have to stand up for myself, cos I dont depend on anyone to do it for me.
> The bit about the change of working hours to the European standard hours, was something I had heard Spanish companies were keen to implement, its difficult to know if that really is the case, but I thought it would be a good solution for a lot of people, Spanish single mothers and married mothers or fathers, or whoever. My theory is that if you actually make it easier for single mothers to work, then it will help reduce the need for welfare benefits. I think that is to be encouraged, dont you?
> I am well aware that I am in Spain, I communicate in Spanish most of the time, I have relations that are South American, my son so far only speaks Spanish having been born here to a South American father and in a state nursery and then state school (with few foreigners). I do translations from time to time, hold Spanish speaking meetings in my home, do legal research in Spanish and deal with paper mountains of Spanish paperwork, schools, the Junta, Hacienda. That isnt the problem. And one's nationality doesnt necessarily prevent one from having a valid opinion or mean that suggesting change is some kind of attempt to impose one culture on another. So I understand your quote in Spanish and dont have a problem with it per se, but it doesnt explain the need to discriminate.
> Dont think I have a weak understanding of the Spanish position, but feel that the historical political, social and religous background influences the reaction to the new reality of single mothers, be they divorced, widowed, abandoned, separated whatever. There is some attempts to readjust to this new reality but I have found that the people on the frontline of various institutions tend to resist it. Its certainly not something that is the sole concern of immigrants, for I know personally it is a growing problem for many Spanish women. And like I said in another post, my son will be Spanish, whether I like it or not!


I´m sure steve will answer you in his own way. All I wanted to know was if the spanish system was similar to the UK, which IS where alot of girls have babies as "meal tickets" cos they get so many benefits etc FACT, like it or not! The political depths and profound social rights or wrongs in Spain are of no interest to me other than we should all be capable of paying for our round and children should be thought about before they´re conceived!



Nite all
Jo x


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

Oooeeer

Two things

One: Interpretation of the rules is down to me, if you have a complaint then speak to admin rather than discuss on here

Two: As stated, please in future only post in English, which is the language of the forum. I wont delete those now, as it will screw up the flow of the thread, but no more in future please


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## SteveHall (Oct 17, 2008)

Sorry, Strav. I had never seen that we had to write in English only. My fault.

Apologies to all.


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## DH1875 (Feb 21, 2009)

Caz.I said:


> If you read my post a bit more carefully, you will see that I was not directly calling you a Daily Express/Mail reader, (think may be better to be called gay) but I said you seemed to be repeating the same stereotypes that they promote and was questioning what your comment meant. (And you still havent explained it!) I do find stereotypes offensive because though they might not intend to cause offence, they frequently do by their very nature. Words can hurt, which is why I try to use them with great care. I was angry because there's too much prejudice about single mothers, which usually does not reflect the reality of people's lives, and I have to stand up for myself, cos I dont depend on anyone to do it for me.
> The bit about the change of working hours to the European standard hours, was something I had heard Spanish companies were keen to implement, its difficult to know if that really is the case, but I thought it would be a good solution for a lot of people, Spanish single mothers and married mothers or fathers, or whoever. My theory is that if you actually make it easier for single mothers to work, then it will help reduce the need for welfare benefits. I think that is to be encouraged, dont you?
> I am well aware that I am in Spain, I communicate in Spanish most of the time, I have relations that are South American, my son so far only speaks Spanish having been born here to a South American father and in a state nursery and then state school (with few foreigners). I do translations from time to time, hold Spanish speaking meetings in my home, do legal research in Spanish and deal with paper mountains of Spanish paperwork, schools, the Junta, Hacienda. That isnt the problem. And one's nationality doesnt necessarily prevent one from having a valid opinion or mean that suggesting change is some kind of attempt to impose one culture on another. So I understand your quote in Spanish and dont have a problem with it per se, but it doesnt explain the need to discriminate.
> Dont think I have a weak understanding of the Spanish position, but feel that the historical political, social and religous background influences the reaction to the new reality of single mothers, be they divorced, widowed, abandoned, separated whatever. There is some attempts to readjust to this new reality but I have found that the people on the frontline of various institutions tend to resist it. Its certainly not something that is the sole concern of immigrants, for I know personally it is a growing problem for many Spanish women. And like I said in another post, my son will be Spanish, whether I like it or not!


You go girl, good for you and remember don't take crap from no one.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

DH1875 said:


> You go girl, good for you and remember don't take crap from no one.




jo x


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## Xose (Dec 10, 2008)

Caz.I said:


> Pero, no son solamente inmigrantes que son madres solteras, espanolas sufren tambien. Ademas, los hijos de madres solteras que nacieron aqui en espana sean de inmigrantes o no, son espanoles tambien. O supongas que no? Personalmente, el padre de mi hijo es sudamericano, mi hijo solo habla castellano todavia y vivo en un ambiente espanol. Si podais aceptar este realidad significa madurez como un pais multicultural. Y cada pais o cultura tiene un valor inherente y algo especial contribuir. Vamos a ver.
> (In English, now for those who may be reading this and are not fluent in Spanish - and also because have just realised that the rules say postings should be in English)
> But, its not only immigrants who are single mothers, Spanish women also suffer. Besides, the children of single mothers who are born in Spain will be Spanish as well. Or do you think not? Personally, the father of my son is South American, my son speaks only Spanish yet and I live in a Spanish environment. If you can accept this reality it signifies maturity as a multicultural country. And each country or culture has an inherent value and something special ton contribute. Let's see.


Hi Caz,
Sorry, my post was a comparitive between the UK and Spanish governments and their already stated aims at addressing the lack of population growth, increased life expectancy and the problems that will bring in future pensions. The UK has openly stated it is prepared to instigate and promote a selective inmigration process. The Spanish government are clearly rewarding the large family option.

Whilst I respect and like to read that which Steve posted, I'm not sure I would give too much weight to the "Rome" line (not that this is what it was Steve, just read a bit like it) and prefer to see things for what I think they really are.

As for single mothers, what can I say, c'est la vie and I'm not qualified to comment one way or the other. In any case, I do think that the classic "me thinks the lady doth protest too much" might be a danger here what with all guns blazing, collateral damage and all that.


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## jkchawner (Dec 21, 2008)

im staying out of it !
6ft and built like a brick £$%* house but that aint no match for handbags at dawn !!!!


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## Xose (Dec 10, 2008)

jkchawner said:


> im staying out of it !
> 6ft and built like a brick £$%* house but that aint no match for handbags at dawn !!!!


Dawn? , you're avin' a bubble! Nothing happens at dawn here

More like 11.45ish, after the mid morning coffee and tapas


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## jkchawner (Dec 21, 2008)

Xose said:


> Dawn? , you're avin' a bubble! Nothing happens at dawn here
> 
> More like 11.45ish, after the mid morning coffee and tapas


yeah be time for your siesta then soon


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## Xose (Dec 10, 2008)

jkchawner said:


> yeah be time for your siesta then soon


That'll depend on the parrot trainer


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Xose said:


> Dawn? , you're avin' a bubble! Nothing happens at dawn here


Well it bloody well does here...the builders next door happen at dawn!!! 6.45AM this morning, the cement mixer went on, the electric pully thing that pulls the whellbarrow up to the roof, brick cutters and of course lotsa shouting!!!! IT WAS STILL DARK! 

Jo x


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## jkchawner (Dec 21, 2008)

Xose said:


> That'll depend on the parrot trainer


now now (who the hell is he?) might wash the bed sheets in a min


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## Xose (Dec 10, 2008)

jojo said:


> Well it bloody well does here...the builders next door happen at dawn!!! 6.45AM this morning, the cement mixer went on, the electric pully thing that pulls the whellbarrow up to the roof, brick cutters and of course lotsa shouting!!!! IT WAS STILL DARK!
> 
> Jo x


Bloody hell, you got eager builders down your way. You sure they weren't nocking down an elegal build whilst the owners weren't around


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## SteveHall (Oct 17, 2008)

6,45?? Had you already gone to bed. It was about 8 before I finished yday! I hate Pacific time.


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## jkchawner (Dec 21, 2008)

jojo said:


> Well it bloody well does here...the builders next door happen at dawn!!! 6.45AM this morning, the cement mixer went on, the electric pully thing that pulls the whellbarrow up to the roof, brick cutters and of course lotsa shouting!!!! IT WAS STILL DARK!
> 
> Jo x


electric pully thing 
lol if it says max factor u may have a clue i love women !


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

jkchawner said:


> electric pully thing
> lol if it says max factor u may have a clue i love women !


LOL, yes thats just me putting my make-up on!!! 

Jo


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## Xose (Dec 10, 2008)

SteveHall said:


> 6,45?? Had you already gone to bed. It was about 8 before I finished yday! I hate Pacific time.


When I were a lad, we used to live in a box in t'middle of t'road, got up two hours before we went to bed, bloody kids today, you tell'em and they won't believe you!


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## jkchawner (Dec 21, 2008)

jojo said:


> LOL, yes thats just me putting my make-up on!!!
> 
> Jo


can i have my spade back now please only joking


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## jkchawner (Dec 21, 2008)

Xose said:


> When I were a lad, we used to live in a box in t'middle of t'road, got up two hours before we went to bed, bloody kids today, you tell'em and they won't believe you!



we used to be your neighbours 
we were the ones without the box !


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## Caz.I (Mar 21, 2009)

DH1875 said:


> You go girl, good for you and remember don't take crap from no one.


Thanks DH, dont worry I dont take crap from anyone.


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## Caz.I (Mar 21, 2009)

SteveHall said:


> Final comment: I am trying to remember when my last partner was NOT a single parent. So, whilst, you may want to wear your domestic situation on your sleeve, I and (I and all the others) have the right to an opinion.
> 
> I DO think you misunderstand the stance re the familia numerosa as these families ARE positively discriminated in favour of which tells me that this is what the state wishes to promote.
> 
> I have ABSOLUTELY no problem whether you are black or white, Latvian or lesbian, a single-parent or in a 2,3 suburban married relationship. I am NO WAY going to discriminate against you. You are entirely carbon-neutral to me. (Just tell me you are not an estate agent or a Mail reader LOL)


I don’t particularly want to wear my domestic situation on my sleeve, as you put it (too messy . Mind you, at least he is out of nappies now.). But when I read something that I feel may be prejudice against women in my situation, I feel compelled to challenge it and talk from the reality of my life rather than hypothetical situations, which most people tend to do. 
Finally (never mind a Daily Mail reader, I was beginning to think you were a politician, being so evasive...), you explained a little bit more about your comment from your own experience, so I can understand the background to your comment. But my original point was only – we single mothers are not all the same! That was all. 
I know the positive discrimination of large families is promoted, was just saying the changing reality of Spain needs to deal with that changing reality in some way. Nice to see they are encouraging us all to go out and get pregnant, not once but again and again!  No I am not an estate agent either, but I know a man who is...and he is a very very nice man.


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## DH1875 (Feb 21, 2009)

Caz.I said:


> Thanks DH, dont worry I dont take crap from anyone.


No worries.


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## Caz.I (Mar 21, 2009)

jojo said:


> I´m sure steve will answer you in his own way. All I wanted to know was if the spanish system was similar to the UK, which IS where alot of girls have babies as "meal tickets" cos they get so many benefits etc FACT, like it or not! The political depths and profound social rights or wrongs in Spain are of no interest to me other than we should all be capable of paying for our round and children should be thought about before they´re conceived!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Well I was responding to Steve's comments re social rights and wrongs, which is why I brought that bit up. Without wearing my domestic situation on my sleeve, as Steve put it, I am not a person to take conception of a child lightly, I didnt then and I wouldnt now. There are a lot of things going on in society in the UK that are very worrying. I dont know which part you mean is a fact, the benefits or girls having babies as "meal tickets"? And is it a statistical fact or an anecdotal fact, what's your source? Its not for me to like or dislike. I dont really mind either way whether its true or not, though I think it is sad if it is. Dont get me wrong, I dont doubt that there are some girls who think single motherhood would be a cushy lifestyle but I think most of them do it out of naiivety and romanticism rather than being cold and calculating. Am just questioning if its as high a percentage as papers like the Daily Mail make out. Personally, I pity anyone who is deluded enough to think single motherhood is a meal ticket cos there in for a rude awakening! Benefits or not. Maybe showing them some of the video nasties I saw at my antenatal classes before they got pregnant would put them off. They scared me to death!


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## jkchawner (Dec 21, 2008)

Caz.I said:


> Well I was responding to Steve's comments re social rights and wrongs, which is why I brought that bit up. Without wearing my domestic situation on my sleeve, as Steve put it, I am not a person to take conception of a child lightly, I didnt then and I wouldnt now. There are a lot of things going on in society in the UK that are very worrying. I dont know which part you mean is a fact, the benefits or girls having babies as "meal tickets"? And is it a statistical fact or an anecdotal fact, what's your source? Its not for me to like or dislike. I dont really mind either way whether its true or not, though I think it is sad if it is. Dont get me wrong, I dont doubt that there are some girls who think single motherhood would be a cushy lifestyle but I think most of them do it out of naiivety and romanticism rather than being cold and calculating. Am just questioning if its as high a percentage as papers like the Daily Mail make out. Personally, I pity anyone who is deluded enough to think single motherhood is a meal ticket cos there in for a rude awakening! Benefits or not. Maybe showing them some of the video nasties I saw at my antenatal classes before they got pregnant would put them off. They scared me to death!


child births kids stuff !
have both your big toe nails of same day ouch ouch ouch 
women dont no how good they,ve got it !

they never had gas and air in the cave man days just got on with the job


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## Caz.I (Mar 21, 2009)

jkchawner said:


> child births kids stuff !
> have both your big toe nails of same day ouch ouch ouch
> women dont no how good they,ve got it !
> 
> they never had gas and air in the cave man days just got on with the job


Well I would quite happily kiss the big toe nails of the guy who invented the epidural, as I am eternally grateful to him for creating such excellent pain relief. No, they didnt have that in the cave man days, the women just gripped the necks of their he-man tightly instead. Oh, for the good old days!


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## jkchawner (Dec 21, 2008)

Caz.I said:


> Well I would quite happily kiss the big toe nails of the guy who invented the epidural, as I am eternally grateful to him for creating such excellent pain relief. No, they didnt have that in the cave man days, the women just gripped the necks of their he-man tightly instead. Oh, for the good old days!


had an epidural last year myself not throuh pregnency i must add had a reaL bad accident touch and Go at one point. have to admit as bob marley would have said
GOOD SH%T MAN


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