# Can a Permanent Residence be revoke on the grounds of not changing a status?



## reemandoh (Feb 8, 2012)

currently I have a husband who is a permanent resident in Australia. He currently lives in Geelong. I want to migrate/study in Australia however I am currently married to him and my husband was not able to declare that he is married during the time that his father applied and eventually got their PR (from which my husband is a dependent). He was not able to let his father know that he is already married. Hence until now, he is known to be single.

My main concern is that since I am applying for a VISA in Australia, I do not know if I would apply with a status of single or married. There will be 2 scenarios, I can apply as single but I thought that I might get denied or I won't be able to finish my studies if eventually the embassy would find out that I am married. I can also apply for being married but this might affect my husband's PR if and when the embassy finds out that I am married to him and that he was not able to declare his status of being married during the time that they are applying for a PR until it was released.


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## Guest (Feb 8, 2012)

Hmmm lying to immigration is not advised and yes it can lead to visa refusal or withdrawal if DIAC believe they were deliberatly lied to so the person could more easily obtain a visa ie Visa Fraud. Which is a very serious offence!

If you now lie on your visa your visa could be liable for rejection for lying and giving fraudulant answers on your application!


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## xMarcusx (Nov 8, 2011)

You're in an extremely difficult position. I believe that a PR visa can be revoked on "character" grounds which I've always taken to mean immi discovering they have been given intentionally false information. I think you need to discuss this with an agent if not a lawyer to see where you stand.


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## naoto (Jan 8, 2012)

I have read a number of people who got there PR revoked after about 2 years of grant due to fake qualifications/ information.


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## reemandoh (Feb 8, 2012)

Well as i read your all yours answers it seems that you all have one opinion and that is it will be revoked. It is just that i am confuse because we've asked an immig lawyer (somewhat a family friend of my husband) and he is suggesting me to apply on my own without declaring my new status. And i think with this suggestion he is more of protecting the family of my husband. I mean you know, he doesn't care if eventually i will have problems as long as my husband's family will not be affected. 

on the other hand i have asked education consultants as well (since i wanted to apply for a student visa) and they too have have different opinions. one suggested that i apply as single and the other one suggest to declare that i am married.


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## reemandoh (Feb 8, 2012)

and i just don't know what to do!


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## Guest (Feb 9, 2012)

If you lie on your application you a likely to be refused due to visa fraud & character issues.

If you tell the truth your husband and family could lose their visas due to visa fraud. 

I suggest you speak with a registered migration agent who knows what they are talking about asap.


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## reemandoh (Feb 8, 2012)

_shel said:


> If you lie on your application you a likely to be refused due to visa fraud & charachter issues.
> 
> If you tell the truth your husband and family could lose their visas due to visa fraud.
> 
> I suggest you speak with a registered migration agent who knows what they are talking about asap.


Yeah i know. Thanks!


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## obelix (Sep 10, 2010)

Can you husband or his family send in a change in circumstance form?


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## Maz25 (Jul 6, 2008)

obelix said:


> Can you husband or his family send in a change in circumstance form?


This should have been done before the visa was granted. The main issue with this case is that the other person's husband would not have qualified to be listed as a dependent since he was married.

She could apply for her visa and declare that she is married but that would have repercussions for her husband and his family. 

I agree with Shel that she needs to speak to a registered migration agent as soon as possible.


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## reemandoh (Feb 8, 2012)

Maz25 said:


> This should have been done before the visa was granted. The main issue with this case is that the other person's husband would not have qualified to be listed as a dependent since he was married.
> 
> She could apply for her visa and declare that she is married but that would have repercussions for her husband and his family.
> 
> I agree with Shel that she needs to speak to a registered migration agent as soon as possible.


Well actually i am planning to declare that i am married when i apply. I check the application form and it doesn't ask much about my dependent if i don't include them in my application. so do you think, the immigration/embassy would still care investigating my husband( such as his whereabouts or what was he doing in the past 2 years and etc) even if i answered "no" on the option whether i will include him as dependent. would there still be a big possibility that they will find out the person i am married to is actually already in australia with his PR?


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## Maz25 (Jul 6, 2008)

reemandoh said:


> Well actually i am planning to declare that i am married when i apply. I check the application form and it doesn't ask much about my dependent if i don't include them in my application. so do you think, the immigration/embassy would still care investigating my husband( such as his whereabouts or what was he doing in the past 2 years and etc) even if i answered "no" on the option whether i will include him as dependent. would there still be a big possibility that they will find out the person i am married to is actually already in australia with his PR?


I really would not be able to tell you what immigration will or will not do in this situation. Immigration does background checks on applicants. You may not include a lot of information on your husband but a name, date of birth and passport number is all that is required for immigration to pull up your husband's file and if they realise that fraudulent information was included on his visa application, then they will investigate and apply the immigration law accordingly.

I very much doubt that you are in any trouble but your husband could very well be as whilst married, he definitely did not qualify to be listed as a dependent on his father's visa.

Please speak to a MARA registered agent. As much as we would like to tell you what to do and what may or may not happen, you need professional advice in this situation and an agent is better placed to assist you.

Good luck.


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## Guest (Feb 10, 2012)

If you are married you have a dependent and must include them in either 'migrating dependent' or 'non migrating dependent'.

If you do not put your husband in either your CO will ask you for the details as you have put married! If you put them in non migrating dependent again your CO will question why your husband is not migrating. It will raise questions and suspisions.


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## Gollywobbler (Feb 8, 2012)

reemandoh said:


> currently I have a husband who is a permanent resident in Australia. He currently lives in Geelong. I want to migrate/study in Australia however I am currently married to him and my husband was not able to declare that he is married during the time that his father applied and eventually got their PR (from which my husband is a dependent). He was not able to let his father know that he is already married. Hence until now, he is known to be single.
> 
> My main concern is that since I am applying for a VISA in Australia, I do not know if I would apply with a status of single or married. There will be 2 scenarios, I can apply as single but I thought that I might get denied or I won't be able to finish my studies if eventually the embassy would find out that I am married. I can also apply for being married but this might affect my husband's PR if and when the embassy finds out that I am married to him and that he was not able to declare his status of being married during the time that they are applying for a PR until it was released.


Hi Reemandoh

God, what a mess! 

It is unlikely that Hubby's PR status would be revoked. I think that the appeals are dealt with by the Administrative Appeals Tribunal if a PR visa is revoked. The AAT tend to take a fairly lenient view of what has happened, so it is usually OK in the end. 

That said, DO NOT make the situation worse by fibbing to DIAC yourself. Hubby stands a reasonable chance of being OK but it would NOT help to give the impression that every member of the family will lie to the Australian Government if they get half a chance. 

Do nothing about DIAC for the time being, I suggest. Rather than trying to talk to DIAC yourself, I strongly recommend talking to Westly Russell instead:

Home Page

I've never come across a situation like yours before but Westly is bound to have done so hundreds of times, since the Australian Government regards the Philippines as a High Risk country where Immigration to Australia is concerned.

It will be necessary to tell DIAC the whole sorry truth but Westly would know how to present it in the least unfavourable light and so on. It would cost money to get him to sort it out but his fees would be worth every cent and Westly is not stuffy towards clients who have sinned in the past! 

Good luck.

Cheers

Gill


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## Gollywobbler (Feb 8, 2012)

Hi Rakesh

I don't understand your comment? In particular, you say, "Proof of later date." What "later date," please? 

Are you suggesting that Reemandoh should obtain and produce bogus documents to DIAC? If yes, how would that not amount to lying, please? 

Puzzled

Gill


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## naoto (Jan 8, 2012)

Hi Rakesh, no wonder India is a high risk country. You realize there is a big chance this will be discovered and you'll be kicked out of the country. DIAC does take very seriously background checks.


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## Gollywobbler (Feb 8, 2012)

Hi again, Reemandoh

Please note that you should NOT regard what I say as being 100% accurate. I know very little about visa cancellation. You SHOULD consult Westly Russell RMA, as I said in my earlier post. Please DON'T try to sort this mess out on your own. Your chances would be much better if you get Westly to help. 

I've been looking at the Case Law concerning visa cancellations and reading some of the commentaries about the whole thing.

It cannot be denied, from what you said in your first post, that Hubby knowingly misled DIAC at the time when he claimed to be his father's Dependant. Hubby misled DIAC because he did not disclose that he was married and that therefore he was not a genuine Dependant. Hubby was not a small child at the time of his marriage to you, therefore he must have known that he was deceiving DIAC by not telling them about his marriage. 

So far, so good. DIAC might try to say that he is "not of good character" because of Hubby's deliberate deception of them, in which case they might try to cancel his visa.

However, my impression is that what happened would not be fatal to Hubby's visa. Sure, Hubby misled DIAC but that, on its own, does not make him a serious villain and letting him stay in Australia would not cause any harm to anyone else. He certainly behaved stupidly and dishonestly - there is no getting away from that. But I doubt whether his conduct has been serious enough to warrant a visa cancellation.

If I'm right then you would need to apply for a Partner visa, I would imagine. (Again, I am NOT sure, but it seems like a logical idea to me. There is no point in your applying to become an International Student if there would be a better way of sorting you out and a Partner visa would definitely be preferable for you.) 

I'm going to post a series of links below because I have asked an RMA friend of mine to have a look at this thread. She might well want to examine the links but I think it would be too difficult for you to understand it all by yourself.

AustLII Results - Visa cancelled

New Schedule 4 requirement; Criterion 4020

Australian Immigration Blog – Grant Williams | Sharing information and opportunity

Grant Williams is good - please scroll down to his commentary about PIC 4020.

Reemandoh, I repeat that I think it would be too complicated for you to try to follow the links above by yourself. 

However, I remain of the view that it would definitely be worth consulting Westly Russell about the whole thing because it does not seem to be all that serious to me. 

So please cheer up, stop worrying and contact Westly without delay? 

Ciao

Gill


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## Gollywobbler (Feb 8, 2012)

naoto said:


> Hi Rakesh, no wonder India is a high risk country. You realize there is a big chance this will be discovered and you'll be kicked out of the country. DIAC does take very seriously background checks.



Hi Naoto

Ummm. I'm not persuaded by the idea of attacking RakeshPatel. He's nothing to do with the OP, for a start. There is no way that Rakesh will be kicked out of Australia for having done nothing except offering advice on an internet forum that some of us do not agree with. That's not a crime, so I think it is important to maintain a sense of proportion about all this. 

Also. although DIAC regularly squawk and splutter, the AAT regularly overturn DIAC's visa cancellation decisions, as well.

It certainly would NOT help to try to hit upon any new ideas that are not 100% honest but at the same time, the problem does not seem to me to be insoluble. 

Cheers

Gill


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