# Postal address service in UK when living in EU but working for a UK company



## SeaGoat (Jan 15, 2017)

Hello All,

This is my first post, so I apologise in advance for any issues with it.

I am getting ready to move out of UK and settle in another EU country, but I am planning to continue to work for my current company in England, I work remotely so my physical location does not make any difference to my employer, and my manager is ok with me working from another country.

The issue I have with a permanent move is that I will need to sell my apartment to avoid paying for an empty property (renting is out of question), but my employer will still need a UK address.

I had a look at the various services offering valid residential address in UK for a monthly fee, now my question is: 

Will such addresses be accepted by the HM Revenue & Customs, surely there must be thousands of people registered at a handful of addresses maintained by these companies, so would the HMRC reject that kind of address?

Hopefully my question is clear.

Thank you!

Regards


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

SeaGoat said:


> Hello All,
> 
> This is my first post, so I apologise in advance for any issues with it.
> 
> ...


:welcome:

I have no idea if HMRS would accept that kind of address - but the real issue is that you will be liable to declare for tax in the country in which you live - regardless of where your employer is.

I would look carefully into what tax agreements the country you wish to live in has with Britain - & at how that country would deal with your income if I were you. 

Broadly speaking - if there is a reciprocal agreement, you don't pay the same tax twice. But that doesn't mean that you don't have to do a declaration your country of residence, nor necesarily that you won't pay any tax there, should allowances be lower.


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## SeaGoat (Jan 15, 2017)

xabiachica said:


> I would look carefully into what tax agreements the country you wish to live in has with Britain - & at how that country would deal with your income if I were you.


Thank you for the reply. From what I have learned Poland (possibly my new country) have signed and agreement with UK which prevents double taxing, so I would continue to pay tax in UK as normal, and only be liable to pay tax in Poland if I started to earn money there as well.


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## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

SeaGoat said:


> Thank you for the reply. From what I have learned Poland (possibly my new country) have signed and agreement with UK which prevents double taxing, so I would continue to pay tax in UK as normal, and only be liable to pay tax in Poland if I started to earn money there as well.


Be careful with that assumption. Normally, in these sorts of cross border arrangements, you don't get to choose which country you pay taxes to. Plus, the international standard normally dictates that you are considered to be "working in" the country where you are physically located while doing the work. The nationality of your employer or where and in what currency you receive your remuneration have little or nothing to do with where you are taxable.

The other big issue is that of the NI payments you would make to the UK. Keeps the UK tax authorities happy, but if you're working in another country, you are technically required to be making payments into whatever social insurance systems they operate and, at a minimum, will probably be required to carry some form of health insurance coverage - possibly private, which can be expensive.

Those double taxation agreements only spell out which country gets to tax what and how to claim the credit or taxes back from the other country. However, they are normally framed in terms of your "country of nationality" vs. your "country of residence." If your country of residence claims the right to tax you for your work done while resident in the country, then it's up to you to try and claim back any taxes taken out of your pay by the UK. It's not always easy to do so.
Cheers,
Bev


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## SeaGoat (Jan 15, 2017)

Bevdeforges said:


> Be careful with that assumption. Normally, in these sorts of cross border arrangements, you don't get to choose which country you pay taxes to


That's right, however I am not choosing, the law simply say that I pay tax in the same country where the pay comes from, not where I am physically.



Bevdeforges said:


> The other big issue is that of the NI payments you would make to the UK. Keeps the UK tax authorities happy, but if you're working in another country, you are technically required to be making payments into whatever social insurance systems they operate and, at a minimum, will probably be required to carry some form of health insurance coverage - possibly private, which can be expensive.


Agree, I am aware that I will need a separate health cover in Poland, or I can choose to pay the local equivalent of the National Insurance.



Bevdeforges said:


> Those double taxation agreements only spell out which country gets to tax what and how to claim the credit or taxes back from the other country. However, they are normally framed in terms of your "country of nationality" vs. your "country of residence." If your country of residence claims the right to tax you for your work done while resident in the country, then it's up to you to try and claim back any taxes taken out of your pay by the UK. It's not always easy to do so.
> Cheers,
> Bev


According to the agreement between UK and PL, I am not required to disclose my 'foreign' pay, I would have to include it if I had another income in PL, but only then.


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## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

SeaGoat said:


> That's right, however I am not choosing, the law simply say that I pay tax in the same country where the pay comes from, not where I am physically.
> .


That's pretty weird as tax laws go. But hey, if that's how the law works there, go for it!
Cheers,
Bev


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## SeaGoat (Jan 15, 2017)

Bevdeforges said:


> That's pretty weird as tax laws go. But hey, if that's how the law works there, go for it!
> Cheers,
> Bev


It is called 'Exemption with progression' rule, and it applies only when you have just one source of income, and it comes from one of the countries which signed the agreement. It has been introduced specifically to stop double taxation.

I would really appreciate it if someone could give their opinion about the HMRC's way of dealing with addresses managed by the services I mentioned in my first post.

Regards


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## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

If you don't mind, I think I'll move this thread to the Expat Tax section and see if we can find someone over there who might have some knowledge of or experience with HMRC.
Cheers,
Bev


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## iota2014 (Jul 30, 2015)

SeaGoat said:


> I am getting ready to move out of UK and settle in another EU country, but I am planning to continue to work for my current company in England, I work remotely so my physical location does not make any difference to my employer, and my manager is ok with me working from another country
> 
> The issue I have with a permanent move is that I will need to sell my apartment to avoid paying for an empty property (renting is out of question), but my employer will still need a UK address.
> 
> ...


I'm only guessing, but my guess would be that AML legislation probably requires the providers of accommodation addresses to be registered with HMRC. An accommodation address might be accepted by HMRC for some purposes (e.g. for correspondence), but it seems doubtful that you could meet the Statutory Residence Test if you had no address other than an accommodation address. 

There's guidance on the Statutory Residence Test at 
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa...8/160803_RDR3_August2016_v2_0final_078500.pdf

See Annex A (p86):


> This guidance provides information about how HMRC interprets the term ‘home’ in the context of applying the SRT to an individual’s circumstances. It must be read in conjunction with the statutory residence test legislation, which forms Schedule 45 to the Finance Act 2013 particularly paragraph 25 of the Schedule, to gain a comprehensive understanding.


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## SeaGoat (Jan 15, 2017)

iota2014 said:


> An accommodation address might be accepted by HMRC for some purposes (e.g. for correspondence), but it seems doubtful that you could meet the Statutory Residence Test if you had no address other than an accommodation address.


I literally only need the address to be able to give that to my employer so they can continue to pay me. My company will not accept an overseas address.


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## iota2014 (Jul 30, 2015)

SeaGoat said:


> I literally only need the address to be able to give that to my employer so they can continue to pay me. My company will not accept an overseas address.


For all I know, HMRC might never notice, assuming you're paid via PAYE and are not required to file a return. It's obviously a risk though. You say you're going to be relying on the treaty to pay tax in the UK and not in Poland, but it appears that for Article 14 of the treaty to apply, you need to be resident in Poland and non-resident in the UK. You can't be resident in both countries.

But I am no expert. I could be wrong. How will you get your pay to Poland?


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## SeaGoat (Jan 15, 2017)

iota2014 said:


> For all I know, HMRC might never notice, assuming you're paid via PAYE ... you need to be resident in Poland and non-resident in the UK. You can't be resident in both countries.
> 
> But I am no expert. I could be wrong. How will you get your pay to Poland?


Yep, I am paid via PAYE, just a standard ongoing employment contract.

I can see that the residency might cause an issue here, hence why I wanted to get into a discussion, so hopefully I can get these things cleared up before making the 'jump'. 

I guess I could claim the tax residency in Poland based on one of few conditions - 183 days in the year spent in that country or if the country is a 'centre of your family affairs' (if you have a bank account there, family etc.)

I would continue to get paid into my UK bank account as normal, and then transfer the cash via international transfer, so from the UK point of view I would still exist in their system as normal (paying into pension, paying taxes etc.)

I understand that this might seem like a strange arrangement, that is exactly why I want to think it through properly before committing to anything. Therefore please criticise as much as you can.


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## iota2014 (Jul 30, 2015)

OK - if I were considering doing this, my first question would be - why does the employer insist on a UK address? Is it just a matter of convenience, or are there regulations involved?

(a) If it's just convenience (e.g. they don't want to have to make system changes to cope with the non-standard situation), it may be that you could just play by the rules: notify HMRC of your move (https://www.gov.uk/tax-right-retire-abroad-return-to-uk), and give them your address in Poland and also the accommodation address.

(See also https://www.gov.uk/topic/personal-tax/living-working-abroad-offshore)

(b) If the employer insists on a UK address for regulatory reasons, in your place I would want to find out what regulations are involved, before proceeding.

Postulating for now that it's (a), then it appears to me you could rely on Article 14 as planned, and all would be kosher as you would be a _bona fide_ Polish resident paying tax on UK earnings as a _bona fide_ non-UK-resident.



> I would continue to get paid into my UK bank account as normal, and then transfer the cash via international transfer, so from the UK point of view I would still exist in their system as normal (paying into pension, paying taxes etc.)


You should probably consider the banks at both ends, and their various AML / KYC / CYA /CRS anxieties. What you want to do might be fine but it's worth checking.


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## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

One further thing: I would check very carefully the Polish laws/rules concerning taxes and "tax residence." The 183 day rule doesn't apply everywhere - or may do so only as a sort of "rule of thumb" rather than a hard and fast rule. Another consideration might be those situations in Poland where you may have to "prove your residence" - whether to a bank or a government agency. In some places this involves providing proof that you have paid your taxes in the country, including any social charges (payroll taxes, retirement plans, etc.).

And, depending on how long you are planning to stay in Poland, you may want to have a "Plan B" handy should the Brexit thing go sour. How "easy" it will be to remain in Poland as a Brit may very well depend on how accommodating the UK is toward its Polish residents once the ties to the EU are cut.
Cheers,
Bev


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## iota2014 (Jul 30, 2015)

Fortunately the residence article in the treaty makes it clear that under the treaty, in the circumstances outlined by the OP (a home in Poland, no home in the UK) a person would be unambiguously resident in Poland.

And Article 14.2 *appears to me to say* (typical tortuous treaty language) that income earned in the UK would only be taxable in Poland if (a) the recipient spent less than 183 days in the UK AND (b) was paid by a non-UK employer AND (c) the employer was not established in the UK. 

Which, I'm guessing, is probably the correct interpretation as it boils down to the income being usually taxable in the source state.



> And, depending on how long you are planning to stay in Poland, you may want to have a "Plan B" handy should the Brexit thing go sour. How "easy" it will be to remain in Poland as a Brit may very well depend on how accommodating the UK is toward its Polish residents once the ties to the EU are cut.


Indeed.


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## SeaGoat (Jan 15, 2017)

iota2014 said:


> OK - if I were considering doing this, my first question would be - why does the employer insist on a UK address? Is it just a matter of convenience, or are there regulations involved?...


I don't know if they insist on UK address, I haven't asked yet, I know that we have one guy who lives and works from Asia most of the year, and another one is permanently based in France. I do not know what address they supplied to the employer though, my worry is that they could simply say that they would have to prepare a separate employment contract to specifically accommodate for working from abroad, and they would most definitely refuse to do that just because I fancy it.

I read through all of my employment documents and nowhere could I find anything that mentions or hints at any requirement as to my residency. My company actively encourages working from home and they even pay me extra because I work more hours remotely than in the office, I only go there for occasional meetings.

I would definitely prefer to play by the rules if that was possible, I am just anxious that if I start asking my superiors about it then they might quickly refuse and then keep an eye on my and my location (calling me to the office more often etc.), I saw that happen to one person before.



Bevdeforges said:


> And, depending on how long you are planning to stay in Poland, you may want to have a "Plan B" handy should the Brexit thing go sour. How "easy" it will be to remain in Poland as a Brit may very well depend on how accommodating the UK is toward its Polish residents once the ties to the EU are cut.
> Cheers,
> Bev


Thank you for bringing my attention to this.


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## SeaGoat (Jan 15, 2017)

iota2014 said:


> Fortunately the residence article in the treaty makes it clear that under the treaty, in the circumstances outlined by the OP (a home in Poland, no home in the UK) a person would be unambiguously resident in Poland.
> 
> And Article 14.2 *appears to me to say* (typical tortuous treaty language) that income earned in the UK would only be taxable in Poland if (a) the recipient spent less than 183 days in the UK AND (b) was paid by a non-UK employer AND (c) the employer was not established in the UK.
> 
> Which, I'm guessing, is probably the correct interpretation as it boils down to the income being usually taxable in the source state.


Yep, that's exactly how I interpret it as well, I read multiple articles from Polish sources as well and they point to the same interpretation.


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## iota2014 (Jul 30, 2015)

SeaGoat said:


> I don't know if they insist on UK address, I haven't asked yet, I know that we have one guy who lives and works from Asia most of the year, and another one is permanently based in France.
> [..]
> I read through all of my employment documents and nowhere could I find anything that mentions or hints at any requirement as to my residency. My company actively encourages working from home and they even pay me extra because I work more hours remotely than in the office, I only go there for occasional meetings.


In that case it seems perfectly reasonable to proceed on the basis that there's no problem.


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## SeaGoat (Jan 15, 2017)

I might have found a solution to my address related issue, Private UK mailboxes with real street addresses and mail forwarding post-Brexit. Cheap poste restante. - they seem to offer exactly what I am looking for, from their site:



> A Private mailbox has a real street address rather than a box number, giving it a postal address that is accepted by banks, credit card and insurance companies, couriers and authorities alike; including HMRC and the DVLA.


The only downside is that it will cost me £200/year, but hey, better than paying for an empty property.


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## iota2014 (Jul 30, 2015)

Would it not be worth checking out whether you could just use RM's redirection service? It probably costs similar, and it's a regulated service, meaning you have some protection against fraud.


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## SeaGoat (Jan 15, 2017)

iota2014 said:


> Would it not be worth checking out whether you could just use RM's redirection service? It probably costs similar, and it's a regulated service, meaning you have some protection against fraud.


But would it work if I sold my current property? Is it simply that you could give your employer and any other organisation any address in UK for which you have a redirection service setup with RM?

Although you probably have to first prove that you current address is valid before setting up the redirect?


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## iota2014 (Jul 30, 2015)

Yes you can only do it for your current address. You'd have to check all the possible issues with Royal Mail - how long can you renew for, what happens post-Brexit, etc. You make sure everyone important - HMRC, banks, etc - has your address in Poland, and make sure you give the Polish address to your manager also, even though your current address is going to remain as the address where you're paid (assuming it's only pay slips that actually get sent). 

Not a problem for the next occupant of your flat, as (in theory) no mail actually arrives there. The occasional slip-up shouldn't matter as long as you tell everyone important your Polish address and of course email address.


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