# Moving to Mexico, 1st time there, need advice!



## golddust

Hello!

My husband recently got a job offer in Querétaro, Mexico, and since neither of us have ever been to Mexico, even on vacation, we have a lot of questions... 
We've done a little bit of research and it appears that Querétaro is a pretty safe and modern place to live since it has become an important business town? I'm from Nevada, USA and my husband is from Spain, where we currently live. 
The reasons I'm excited about the possible move are: Being from Nevada I like hot, dry climates. I have a functional level of Castillian Spanish and I'd love to improve my Mexican Spanish. I like Mexican food (well, American-Mexican food since I've never had the real thing!). And I think it would be an enriching experience living in the country & learning more about their culture. We'd also like to do some traveling around the country while living there if that's pretty safe and easy to do.
The reasons we're feeling unsure: The stat that Mexico is one of the countries with the most kidnappings in the world scares me. Also I do not look latina at all and I'm worried about not fitting in very well (tall white redhead). Is that anything to be worried about? Are the locals very friendly to foreigners? Our #1 concern is safety of course but I'm sure we'd be just fine as tons of Americans travel to Mexico each year on vacation?
We'd really welcome any comments about living in Mexico and especially about life in Querétaro. 

Thank you!!! 
-Holly


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## sparks

> The reasons we're feeling unsure: The stat that Mexico is one of the countries with the most kidnappings in the world scares me. Also I do not look latina at all and I'm worried about not fitting in very well (tall white redhead). Is that anything to be worried about? Are the locals very friendly to foreigners?


If it's widely know that your family has a lot of money and you appear to have lots of money ... you probably have a 1 in 1 million chance of being targeted for kidnapping.

Relations is Mexico depend mostly on you. Of course there will be a break in period

Sparks Mexico


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## Steve Hazzard

golddust said:


> Hello!
> 
> My husband recently got a job offer in Querétaro, Mexico, and since neither of us have ever been to Mexico, even on vacation, we have a lot of questions...
> We've done a little bit of research and it appears that Querétaro is a pretty safe and modern place to live since it has become an important business town? I'm from Nevada, USA and my husband is from Spain, where we currently live.
> The reasons I'm excited about the possible move are: Being from Nevada I like hot, dry climates. I have a functional level of Castillian Spanish and I'd love to improve my Mexican Spanish. I like Mexican food (well, American-Mexican food since I've never had the real thing!). And I think it would be an enriching experience living in the country & learning more about their culture. We'd also like to do some traveling around the country while living there if that's pretty safe and easy to do.
> The reasons we're feeling unsure: The stat that Mexico is one of the countries with the most kidnappings in the world scares me. Also I do not look latina at all and I'm worried about not fitting in very well (tall white redhead). Is that anything to be worried about? Are the locals very friendly to foreigners? Our #1 concern is safety of course but I'm sure we'd be just fine as tons of Americans travel to Mexico each year on vacation?
> We'd really welcome any comments about living in Mexico and especially about life in Querétaro.
> 
> Thank you!!!
> -Holly


Hi Holly! Welcome to the forum! The primary concern re a move to a new country, is to get all the info in advance and to lay as much of the groundwork as possible. You didn't indicate a time frame for you move, but I would allow a minimum of 3-6 months to get all your ducks in a row for your move. If possible, I suggest that you visit the Mexican embassy/consulate in Spain for all the official considerations, including visas and resident requirements. You noted that your husband has a job offer in Querétaro, Mexico; the time frame of that employment offer may affect the time for your move to Mexico. A visit to Querétaro would certainly be near the top of your "to do" list. Is your husband new employer assisting with you move? Are you both going to move to Mexico together, or will one precede the other? I suggest that you browse through this forum for many answers to you questions. I presume that you hold US citizenship and your husband is Spanish citizenship. Re being a "tall white redhead", don't wear heels in public! Seriously, I would not be concerned about you appearance vis-a-via Latinas. In my area, I have seen many tall redhead Latinas! Re Castillian Spanish, si hay una diferencia entre Espanol Castillian y Espanol Latino! Como hay una diferencia entre Ingles US e Ingles del UK! I learned Castillian Spanish (European/Hispanic) which made for some amusing and embarrassing language faux pas when speaking with Latinos! Most Latinos/Hispanics appreciate that a native English-speaker is speaking their language; they make allowances for us! I wouldn't be concerned; there are many fine Spanish language schools in Mexico. Re safety issues, it's no different that the US or Europe; respect the prevailing dress and culture; don't wear excess amounts of "bling"; and don't hold yourself out as a materialistic target! I have no detailed knowledge of Querétaro, but there are loads of info on the Net about any area of Mexico that you are interested in a relocation. I hope that this info will be of help to you and your husband! La buena suerte y bienvenidos a Mexico!


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## golddust

Thank you so much for the help! 
We haven't even begun the paperwork or anything as my husband is still negociating taking the position or not with his boss. We'd only go of course given that they're able to sponsor a visa for me as well. So I still have no idea about dates or anything, but, you're right -a visit to Querétaro is on our to do list! 
About the kidnappings -I guess the USA should seem pretty dangerous as well with all of the gun shootings and stuff that appear in the news. I just remember having a conversation with a woman raised in Mexico City -she said that if you wear bling in the wrong parts of the city people will actually cut off your hands to take it!  Hearing that left an impression on me... I hope she was exaggerating! You can hear horror stories about parts of the US too, so... Just wanted to make sure things weren't really as dangerous as they sound. 
What part of Mexico do you live in? How is it? What's your daily life like there? How would you compare it to where you're from?


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## Steve Hazzard

golddust said:


> Thank you so much for the help!
> We haven't even begun the paperwork or anything as my husband is still negociating taking the position or not with his boss. We'd only go of course given that they're able to sponsor a visa for me as well. So I still have no idea about dates or anything, but, you're right -a visit to Querétaro is on our to do list!
> About the kidnappings -I guess the USA should seem pretty dangerous as well with all of the gun shootings and stuff that appear in the news. I just remember having a conversation with a woman raised in Mexico City -she said that if you wear bling in the wrong parts of the city people will actually cut off your hands to take it!  Hearing that left an impression on me... I hope she was exaggerating! You can hear horror stories about parts of the US too, so... Just wanted to make sure things weren't really as dangerous as they sound.
> What part of Mexico do you live in? How is it? What's your daily life like there? How would you compare it to where you're from?


I'm currently living in Pennsylvania, but I will be moving to Cuidad de Cuernavaca which is about 75km south of Mexico City. I'm an ex-truck driver and I often spent time in Mexican border towns. I saw the good, the bad and the ugly! My experience in Mexico led to my decision to relocate to Mexico when I retired in 2002. " she said that if you wear bling in the wrong parts of the city people will actually cut off your hands to take it!"; that quote is an urban story; no doubt that wearing excessive bling may get you mugged or worse! No different that the US or Europe! Discretion is the better part of display! Sounds like your husband needs to get his employment confirmed before you start packing boxes! Your husband would be eligible for a Professional Visa; should you plan to be likewise employed, you would be eligible for the same visa; your employer(s) would make the visa application. Here is a page link for info on Mexican visas Consulate General of Mexico - Visas this site will provide all the info for different types of visa and their requirements. Re daily life in Mexico, that is dependent upon your location city, suburban or rural. With the exception of Tijuana, Cuidad Juarez and Mexicali, most of my experience in Mexico has been with small towns and villages. As a visiting "******", I don't recall any bad cultural experiences; even though, at that time, I was not proficient in Latino Spanish. The furthest that I traveled into Mexico was maybe 50km, and it was along the California, Arizona and Texas borders. A security consideration today is the rebels of the Oaxaca state and the drug smuggling gangs, including the coyotes, along the border states with the US. As Querétaro is located northwest of Mexico City, I do not believe that you should encounter the banditos that work the US-Mexican border. Today, I would not visit many of the Mexican border towns, especially Nuevo Larado, as they can be very dangerous for foreigners.


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## oesgwynedd

I JUST returned from San Miguel de Allende and Queretaro last night! My husband and i are considering moving to SMA. It is beautiful.... a lot like Santa Fe New Mexico. The people are graceous and so helpful. One thing I did notice and my friends that do live there, is that they do not have heating or air conditioning.... i was either freezing or hot! lol.....

as stated by others, i have lived near Juarez before and Tijuana most of my life. (I am now in Colorado and husband in Iraq), the interior of Mexico is wonderful and the people are wonderful too...... i wold not worry about the interior but the border towns......... you have to watch out.


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## golddust

Ok, good to know. San Miguel de Allende sounds interesting. What did you think of Querétaro? What's the climate like? And the town?

muchas gracias 
holly


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## larrydoliner

Just so you know, we live in Mexico City and have for over 4 years. The kidnap thing is completely overblown. I feel as safe in Mexico as anywhere else. There are also so many blondes in Mexico now. There is no more sterotyped look. Come to Mexico and have a ball! It's a fantastic place to live! if you have any question that I might have the answers to, please feel free to let me know. Larry


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## MarkNxxxxx

My friend is a tall redhead & she's 100% Mexican but no ones seems to think she's not Mexican. Queretaro (the city) is a really nice place. I have a friend (not the redhead) who has a rancho near there & we stay there every now & then. I was there in February & it was very cold in the mornings. I was told it can get very hot in the summer but I've never been there at that time as I don't like hot weather. I also found the people much nicer in Queretaro & the cars actually stop for pedestrians wishing to cross the street - that was a shock but then I do live in Mexico City. Personally, I feel Q is very safe when I'm there


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## arturo_b

golddust said:


> The reasons we're feeling unsure: The stat that Mexico is one of the countries with the most kidnappings in the world scares me.


Statistics only report an aggregate of what has happened: they cannot explain the who, what, when, why, or how. Please look beyond the statistics into the etiology of your concern.



> Also I do not look latina at all and I'm worried about not fitting in


So just what does a latina look like?

Fitting in "down here" has almost nothing to do with appearances: it has everything to do with behavior and with the respect one shows one's neighbors. Rather the opposite of what I encountered north of the border. What you look like is an accident of birth; how you carry yourself and how you treat others, those are how you define yourself as as a person.

You will be given a nickname based on how you look. You will be given respect based on how you treat others. Así de fácil.



> Are the locals very friendly to foreigners?


Surely your answer depends on which local and which foreigner. No? Or do you think that Mexicans hate people from the U.S. the way that people from the U.S. hate Mexicans? I don't mean to offend with this question, and I do not know how to say this in English, sólo quiero exponer el asunto a la tela de juicio.



> Our #1 concern is safety of course but I'm sure we'd be just fine as tons of Americans travel to Mexico each year on vacation?


Please think about what you have said here. Might you feel offended were someone to ask the same thing about where you live? We'll overlook the security issue, which is obviously not the number-one concern, let's start with the notion that people who live in Mexico might not be Americans somehow. People in Tierra del Fuego are Americans!

I do not wish to be combative and I most certainly apologize in advance if my comments be interpreted in that way. I would merely draw your attention to the prejudice underlying your question and remind you not to ask a question if you're not willing to hear the answer. 

Your own prejudices should be your number-one concern. For anyone who comes to Mexico with negative expectations, their success here will likewise be prejudiced. You don't have to believe me, you can read _Los de abajo_, written by Mariano Azuela a century ago.

As we sow, so shall we reap. Therefore, let us sow well that we might also live well.


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## RVGRINGO

We've lived here eight years and are very happy. We have no intention of going anywhere else; especially gun toting Nevada!


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## sparks

arturo_b said:


> As we sow, so shall we reap. Therefore, let us sow well that we might also live well.


While much of your post is true Arturo ... moving to Mexico is a large cultural jump for many northerners. Even the Mexicans and maybe especially the Mexicans admit the relative lawlessness. Most of us can live with nothing more than a breakin and loosing a few things which is common. It is not like living a middle class life in the US with no bars on the windows and no walls around the house


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## arturo_b

Mi estimado señor Sparks, everything I write is true. It might not be true for you but it is certainly true for me otherwise I would not waste my time in writing it.

Bars on our windows and walls around our houses are not a Mexican phenomenon. If you think so, I would say you are racist. The bars and walls come from Europe. Visit the world and you will see the truth.

For what it's worth, I live in one of the oldest colonias in Tijuana and I do not have bars on my windows and the wall around the predio is maybe a 1.5 meters high. Our gate is not locked. I leave the windows open at night during the summer. And no one has stolen anything from us here!

So who wants to start with the *******das?


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## RVGRINGO

Perhaps some of our readers may not realize that the building style and culture of Mexico derives from beyond Spain to the Moors of North Africa, who occupied Spain until just before the Conquistadores arrived on the Mexican coast. As such, homes and other buildings are built on the outer perimiter of the lot, with courtyards and gardens in the interior. This comes from a time when security was provided by those outer walls and bars, while cool shade, quiet and privacy could be maintained inside; as well as cleanliness. The streets and countryside beyond the walls could be dirty and dangerous. So, the custom continues in Mexico with farmers living in town and leaving only a watchman to guard their fields or cattle. As Sparks mentioned, that may be one of the cultural details that new residents may find a bit different.
Another difference is in law enforcement. There are traffic police who have absolutely no interest in any other matters. They will not respond. Secuity police patrol the streets and may act only upon observing a crime in progress. If you have been robbed or burgled, it is too late to call the police. You must report the crime, with evidence and witnesses and a translator, to the Ministerio Publico, where it becomes a statistic and may possibly result in an investigation. All should know that the laws of Mexico differ greatly and are based on Napoleonic Law, not English Common Law. There are no juries and the accused is generally considered guilty and jailed until proven innocent. Courts are not yet 'open' and you may never actually see a judge. Oral arguments are rare; it is all paperwork done by lawyers and clerks behind closed doors.


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## HolyMole

*Napoleonic Code still the law?*



RVGRINGO said:


> ..................... All should know that the laws of Mexico differ greatly and are based on Napoleonic Law, not English Common Law. There are no juries and the accused is generally considered guilty and jailed until proven innocent. Courts are not yet 'open' and you may never actually see a judge. Oral arguments are rare; it is all paperwork done by lawyers and clerks behind closed doors.


When we were last in Mexico in early 2008 the newspapers were full of proposed major changes to the laws in Mexico that would have established the principle of "innocent until proven guilty."

Was it only talk? Did nothing come of it?


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## golddust

RVGRINGO said:


> We've lived here eight years and are very happy. We have no intention of going anywhere else; especially gun toting Nevada!


I'm glad that you're very happy there. Really I am. But please, don't insult Nevada. What you've written is offensive to me. Guns aren't unique to Nevada, or the USA. Just today there was an article in the news about a shooting in a Mexico City subway. The violence happening in border towns also frequently makes the news. Unfortunately, it's these articles that give outsiders a less than great impression of safety in Mexico. The same goes for the USA. 
Just a small fraction of Nevadans (and Americans for that matter) are "gun toting", and I imagine the same is true for Mexicans. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. Of all the people I've ever known growing up in Nevada, only 3 have guns at home for protection. They've never needed to use them. I've never known anyone who's had a gun pulled on them. EVER.

When we thought we might be moving to Queretaro (which didn't happen in the end because my husband didn't get the job offer), we wanted to find out what kind of place we were moving to since neither one of us has ever been to Mexico. Thanks for answering our question, but please, be respectful.


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## RVGRINGO

Hmmm. A bit touchy and probably didn't recognize the 'tongue in cheek' without posting a smiley icon. Oh well. For the record, we've been to Nevada and enjoyed it; although we still wouldn't want to live there for several reasons which aren't important to this discussion.
Personal weapons are legal in much of the USA but are illegal in Mexico. Still, there is a criminal element everywhere, as you have recognized.
Sorry to hear that you won't be moving to Queretaro; a very nice place and I'm sure you would have enjoyed the experience a great deal.


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## RVGRINGO

HolyMole,
Yes, there has been such 'talk' and there may even be some plans for a few experimental courts in selected areas. Before that can happen, lawyers and judges must be completely re-trained and the police procedures changed to some degree.
For all practical purposes, it is a 'wait and see' situation and most of us aren't young enough to be able to wait that long.


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## arturo_b

sparks said:


> moving to Mexico is a large cultural jump for many northerners. Even the Mexicans and maybe especially the Mexicans admit the relative lawlessness.


I was a bit grumpy the other day, had just come back from the San Ysidro Port of Entry where I witnessed a Mexican man politely offering his family's luggage to the Immigration official for inspection. Instead, the official shouted at the man "I told you to get out of here, you donkey!" Made me want to drop-kick his butt into the triple fence. And for days after I saw racists lurking behind every corner.

Yes, living in Mexico can be daunting to northerners. But that is not Mexico's problem.

The people who have the hardest time adjusting here are those who believe that the Mexican way is inferior to the U.S. way. I tell them "you cannot measure Mexico with a ****** yardstick, you will only get frustrated." They do not take me seriously. So they get frustrated. Then they get angry. And they are convinced it's Mexico's fault.

This "relative lawlessness" is a case in point. Where did that idea come from? What does it mean? Why is it repeated as though it were part of the Doxology? Our lawlessness is _different,_ not relative. I can only speak for myself: I've been a fronterizo for about forty-five years now and I've witnessed much more appalling lawlessness in southern California than I have in Baja. Here on the border, those who are quickest to decry our lawlessness are the chicanos, not the real Mexicans, followed in suit by ****** mass media and the general ****** population. (No kidding, no one has more hateful things to say about Tijuana than a chicano in San Diego.) Our Mexican population would love to see an end to the drug violence but they are aware that we live in the equivalent of Al Capone's Chicago: only an end to the current Prohibition can return us to normalcy.

The Napoleonic Code is another chestnut I would like to retire. The federal Constitution prohibits unwarranted searches and seizures more forcefully than does the U.S. Constitution. The code of criminal procedure establishes habeas corpus and probable cause as fundamental rights of the accused. About four years ago I was acting as an interpreter for the Ministerio Público: I asked the assistant district attorney in charge of the case about the next procedural steps and she jumped to the conclusion that I was thinking "guilty until proven innocent". "You'd be surprised at how much the two legal systems are alike," she said diplomatically. "Actually, I'm surprised by the difference. Here they put a full-blown attorney in charge of the case, over there you get a police detective." She said quietly, "That's because the Ministerio Público is responsible to protect the rights of everyone involved, and for that you need someone who's been trained in the law."

Underneath its suave, devil-may-care anarchy, Mexico is surprisingly law-abiding. What you read in the papers is one thing -- and what the Rush Limburghers say is even worse -- but in the real world and in real time life here is very peaceable. As Ken Nordine used to say, "How are things in your town?"


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## RVGRINGO

Posters are cautioned to treat each other with respect, avoid even the hint of insult and to have a genuine interest in Mexico. Discussion is welcome but arguments aren't. A recent poster from Italy will no longer be with us; primarily for referring to another poster in an insulting manner and then continuint to 'stir the pot'.
As a result, this thread is now closed.


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