# Residency and Driving Licence change post Brexit



## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

I've just spent a couple of hours with an English woman, living here for long periods for the past fifteen years, who decided on Friday last to become resident.
Yes, I know.......
I translated for her for my Spanish abogado friend who is going through the registration for her, like now. She has all the necessary documents.

One thing she - and I - aren't 100% clear on is the change of driving licence. Obviously this can't be done until she is resident which could take a couple of months but the lawyer says she will be able to drive for a period of three months after becoming resident on a provisional licence but will then have to take a Spanish driving test. 
She is concerned about this as she doesn't speak a word of Spanish.
Yes, I know.....

Is this correct? Will she have to take the test or can she just change over like residents could before December 31?


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

mrypg9 said:


> I've just spent a couple of hours with an English woman, living here for long periods for the past fifteen years, who decided on Friday last to become resident.
> Yes, I know.......
> I translated for her for my Spanish abogado friend who is going through the registration for her, like now. She has all the necessary documents.
> 
> ...


Provisional licence? Afaik there's no such thing in Spain.

If she has a NIE she - or you since it's all in Spanish, can call 060 & register her intention to exchange her UK licence before her TIE is approved. No driving test required.

This MUST be done before the end of the transition period, so I'd suggest you get onto it now!

If she doesn't have a NIE, then she'll be able to drive for 6 months on her UK licence from Jan 1st, but will indeed have to take a test after that - & in Spanish.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

xabiaxica said:


> Provisional licence? Afaik there's no such thing in Spain.
> 
> If she has a NIE she - or you since it's all in Spanish, can call 060 & register her intention to exchange her UK licence before her TIE is approved. No driving test required.
> 
> ...


Thanks for that. She has NIE.
She was panicking, now reassured. She owes you a bottle of best cava!!


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## MataMata (Nov 30, 2008)

As I understand registering with DGT is only the first step, they in turn need to receive confirmation from DVLA of entitlement to be holding a UK licence by Dec 31st.

With the huge backlog DGT are working through and with barely a handful of working days to go I can only wish her the very best of luck in that coming through in time.

Please say she's not still tooling around in a UK regged car!


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Now my friend has been told her Padron certifcate wont't be accepted as it dates from 2019. That was the first time she registered on the Padron. Lawyer says she has to get Certificado Historico....
Doesn't make sense. You don't have to give proof of length of residence in Spain to become a registered rsident, do you?


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

MataMata said:


> As I understand registering with DGT is only the first step, they in turn need to receive confirmation from DVLA of entitlement to be holding a UK licence by Dec 31st.
> 
> With the huge backlog DGT are working through and with barely a handful of working days to go I can only wish her the very best of luck in that coming through in time.
> 
> Please say she's not still tooling around in a UK regged car!


No it's on Spanish plates.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

mrypg9 said:


> Now my friend has been told her Padron certifcate wont't be accepted as it dates from 2019. That was the first time she registered on the Padron. Lawyer says she has to get Certificado Historico....
> Doesn't make sense. You don't have to give proof of length of residence in Spain to become a registered rsident, do you?


Padrón certs have always had a 3 month life - for anything official it always needs to be less than 3 months old. 

No, you don't have to prove how long you have lived in Spain - just that you do - but many extranjerías are being especially picky now over Brits registering. 
There have been lots of cases where people who haven't even arrived yet have started their EX20 applications online. The extranjerías have been asking for extra proof. 

This is the first I've heard of a Certificado Historical being asked for, though


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

xabiaxica said:


> Padrón certs have always had a 3 month life - for anything official it always needs to be less than 3 months old.
> 
> No, you don't have to prove how long you have lived in Spain - just that you do - but many extranjerías are being especially picky now over Brits registering.
> There have been lots of cases where people who haven't even arrived yet have started their EX20 applications online. The extranjerías have been asking for extra proof.
> ...


What is a Certificado historico? I'm beginning to wish I;d never offered to help.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

mrypg9 said:


> What is a Certificado historico? I'm beginning to wish I;d never offered to help.


A sort of special padrón cert which gives the information of when she first went on the padrón & any house moves she has made since then, assuming she has kept them informed.


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## MataMata (Nov 30, 2008)

mrypg9 said:


> No it's on Spanish plates.


At least she's done one thing right then!



xabiaxica said:


> Padrón certs have always had a 3 month life - for anything official it always needs to be less than 3 months old.


Unless it's Alicante extranjero office where a 2.5 year old padron passed muster without comment!

I hope I'm wrong but it seems your friend may be in deeper trouble than she yet knows.

I have no doubt whatsoever that this tale is but the tip of a very big iceberg and that there will be an explosion of similar cases in the coming weeks and months with cries of "it's not fair" and "nobody told me" etc. etc. etc.


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

Just my opinion, but I think we may be seeing the lawyer "cover his bases" here and asking for the world, even though it might not be needed.

This could be a good thing (a lawyer will always want to increase the chances of success) or a bad thing as it creates additional unnecessary work and cost for the client.

Personally I would get a new certificte (completely normal that they want that) but tell the lawyer that the historical one is delayed due to Covid (as eveything is) and that he/she should proceed with what is currently available.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Overandout said:


> Just my opinion, but I think we may be seeing the lawyer "cover his bases" here and asking for the world, even though it might not be needed.
> 
> This could be a good thing (a lawyer will always want to increase the chances of success) or a bad thing as it creates additional unnecessary work and cost for the client.
> 
> Personally I would get a new certificte (completely normal that they want that) but tell the lawyer that the historical one is delayed due to Covid (as eveything is) and that he/she should proceed with what is currently available.


Some ayutamientos are taking months to produce a standard padrón cert! 

I do agree that the lawyer is covering all bases, but also, albeit he's a personal friend of Mary's, does he actually have any experience dealing with the Brexit TIE? 

SO many lawyers & gestores have been asking for the world in paperwork, charging ridiculous fees, & insisting that we all have to exchange our old green ones before the end of the year or we'll be kicked out.


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

xabiaxica said:


> Some ayutamientos are taking months to produce a standard padrón cert!
> 
> I do agree that the lawyer is covering all bases, but also, albeit he's a personal friend of Mary's, does he actually have any experience dealing with the Brexit TIE?
> 
> SO many lawyers & gestores have been asking for the world in paperwork, charging ridiculous fees, & insisting that we all have to exchange our old green ones before the end of the year or we'll be kicked out.


To be fair, hardly anyone has experience of the new TIE process, so it is what can be expected by contracting professional help I suppose. I'd asume that if the lawyer doesn't speak any English then this is not his/her normal field of activity.

I can understand busy professionals contracting agencies / lawyers to do their officialdom for them, but retired folk with nothing better to do? Do these people have more money than sense?


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## Relyat (Sep 29, 2013)

Yes, a lot do. Together with a pathological fear, it seems, of having to deal with a native of their host country who might just speak Spanish.


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## MataMata (Nov 30, 2008)

.....


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## MataMata (Nov 30, 2008)

Overandout said:


> Just my opinion, but I think we may be seeing the lawyer "cover his bases" here and asking for the world, even though it might not be needed.


Very possible.

If you take the kitchen sink and succeed it's easy to conclude that you needed the kitchen sink!


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

MataMata said:


> As I understand registering with DGT is only the first step, they in turn need to receive confirmation from DVLA of entitlement to be holding a UK licence by Dec 31st.
> 
> With the huge backlog DGT are working through and with barely a handful of working days to go I can only wish her the very best of luck in that coming through in time.
> 
> Please say she's not still tooling around in a UK regged car!


The phone call to register needs to be made asap - before Dec 29 at the latest - Spain loses access to the DVLA data base at the end of the year. 

All that is needed to register intent to change is NIE, passport number & driving licence number. 

The actual exchange needs to be completed within 6 months, & presumably one thing that will be checked later is that the TIE registration process was started before the end of this year.


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## Roy C (Sep 29, 2012)

Mary, Purple Permits Estepona did our licences, they got us our first appointment at La Linea and once the process has started then it's fine also they do residencia but it is very tight timewise, worth her making a call.


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## Jenny Jitterbug (Aug 26, 2020)

xabiaxica said:


> Padrón certs have always had a 3 month life - for anything official it always needs to be less than 3 months old.
> 
> No, you don't have to prove how long you have lived in Spain - just that you do - but many extranjerías are being especially picky now over Brits registering.
> There have been lots of cases where people who haven't even arrived yet have started their EX20 applications online. The extranjerías have been asking for extra proof.
> ...


Oh dear I have not renewed my Padrón for 5 months, it seems to have no expiry date, how are we supposed to know what to do and when. Do I need to renew my NIE and green residency documents, SIP card which also have no expiry dates? How do I get this history document?


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## MataMata (Nov 30, 2008)

Saying that a padron cert. only has a 3 month life is not the same as saying that you have to renew a padron every 3 months.

In cases where where a padron is _genuinely_ needed, few and far between in reality, then in general it needs to be less than 3 months old, otherwise it should be renewed periodically.

Before Brex5hite that was every 5 years but now it's going to be every 2 years. Even then if you don't renew all that _may_ happen is that your town hall removes you from their list but that doesn't mean that you can't go straight back on again if you needed to.

NIE's are for life and never need renewing.

Green residencia's do not expire neither do SIP cards unless they are temporary 6 month ones which some health regions have issued to EHIC holders to simplify paperwork.

As for the question "how are we supposed to know what to do and when", the same way you learn about anything, you research it or ask, failure to do either is what's landed the OP's friend in the situation she is.

There will be those out there who will not be as fortunate as she and have a very big potentially life changing shock coming - and very soon!


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## alpinist (Feb 8, 2009)

Just on driving tests - you can do the theory test in English, so it might be less daunting than expected (¿Es posible hacer el examen de conducir en inglés?).



Jenny Jitterbug said:


> Oh dear I have not renewed my Padrón for 5 months, it seems to have no expiry date, how are we supposed to know what to do and when. Do I need to renew my NIE and green residency documents, SIP card which also have no expiry dates? How do I get this history document?


I suppose the confusion is that we talk about renewing padron certificates when really it's just re-issuing them. In my experience, the padron list is only renewed when the council do their campaigns to see who is in the area. Last time I was up at the local town hall, the clerk asked me if my parents were still at their address because it had been a few years since any change on their file - I said yes and he seemed happy to be able to click something. 

Best thing anyone can do is get digital certificates or [email protected] access and then just download digitally signed certificates from the town hall websites whenever they are needed (including the historic ones, but depends on council). I've been surprised that some Spanish people don't even seem to know about this though, and appreciate it isn't a simple process.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

xabiaxica said:


> Some ayutamientos are taking months to produce a standard padrón cert!
> 
> I do agree that the lawyer is covering all bases, but also, albeit he's a personal friend of Mary's, does he actually have any experience dealing with the Brexit TIE?
> 
> SO many lawyers & gestores have been asking for the world in paperwork, charging ridiculous fees, & insisting that we all have to exchange our old green ones before the end of the year or we'll be kicked out.



Yes, he specialises in immigration and citizenship as well as the usual legal stuff. He managed to get everything registered before the dadline so it all worked out well. He’s a well- known local politician and well enchufado, don’t know if that helps with cass like this though.
One thing for sure, he will not charge an outrageous fee. Mates rates.

One more qustion: another friend applied for and got rsidency via a newly- acquired Irish passport. Can he continue driving on a UK licence ? As a resident and EU citizen I would have thought not but he is sure he can.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

mrypg9 said:


> Yes, he specialises in immigration and citizenship as well as the usual legal stuff. He managed to get everything registered before the dadline so it all worked out well. He’s a well- known local politician and well enchufado, don’t know if that helps with cass like this though.
> One thing for sure, he will not charge an outrageous fee. Mates rates.
> 
> One more qustion: another friend applied for and got rsidency via a newly- acquired Irish passport. Can he continue driving on a UK licence ? As a resident and EU citizen I would have thought not but he is sure he can.



Where ‘s the edit function now?
Some of what Ive post d doesn’t make sense.
Definitely don’t like the make-over.


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## Nomoss (Nov 25, 2016)

mrypg9 said:


> *Where ‘s the edit function now?*
> Some of what Ive post d doesn’t make sense.
> Definitely don’t like the make-over.


Click on the 3 vertically arranged dots at the top right of your post.


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

_Si_ said:


> Just on driving tests - you can do the theory test in English, so it might be less daunting than expected (¿Es posible hacer el examen de conducir en inglés?).
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes you can do the theory in English but if you join a school you will find that the practice is in Spanish and normally they do it in a small group together. I know my wife would go in the evenings in a car with others to practice and of course everyone talks Spanish. I don't think I could do it and I am reasonably fluent.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Nomoss said:


> Click on the 3 vertically arranged dots at the top right of your post.


Thanksxx


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Overandout said:


> To be fair, hardly anyone has experience of the new TIE process, so it is what can be expected by contracting professional help I suppose. I'd asume that if the lawyer doesn't speak any English then this is not his/her normal field of activity.
> 
> I can understand busy professionals contracting agencies / lawyers to do their officialdom for them, but retired folk with nothing better to do? Do these people have more money than sense?


I have been telling this woman for the past year or longer that she needs to register but she made up her mind and told me she was going to register on Friday 18th December in the middle of a long lunch party at my favourite restaurant- we arrived in cars and all ewent home in taxis, that kind of very enjoyable lunch.
I have no idea why she took so long or why she finally decided to go for it. She does not know one word of Spanish and had no idea as what the registration process entailed-she had planned to take her documents to Estepona police station on Monday 21st December.
Whilst still fairly sober I immediately rang my lawyer friend, who has a practice in Marbella and who arranged my citizenship application for me. It was the least I could do for a friend, however daft I may think she has been.

She met with the lawyer early Monday morning and he worked all day doing what had to be done before the deadline. He won’t rip her off either, unlike another lawyer, also Marbella based, who chsrged another friend €375 two years ago for what was then a straightforward process. Another friend with an Irish passport is being charged €150 for what is a simple registration process. 

There are various reasons why people don’t do things for themselves. Not speaking Spanish or having loads of money to throw around aren’t the only reasons. When I lived in Prague I paid a gestor to get residency and health care sorted. I speak Czech, not that fluently, but I just couldn’t be arsed as Czech bureaucracy and the attitude of bureaucrats would have led me to being incarcerated for GBH.


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## Roy C (Sep 29, 2012)

Mary, i have an Irish passport and UK licence, i have to exchange my licence for a Spanish one, which is currently happening.


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## MataMata (Nov 30, 2008)

AFAIK the theory part of the Spanish driving test can be studied in English but the exam itself is in Spanish, I would need to hear from someone who had actually taken the test in English to be disabused of that belief.


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## alpinist (Feb 8, 2009)

kaipa said:


> Yes you can do the theory in English but if you join a school you will find that the practice is in Spanish and normally they do it in a small group together. I know my wife would go in the evenings in a car with others to practice and of course everyone talks Spanish. I don't think I could do it and I am reasonably fluent.


Yes I wouldn't fancy driving school/lessons in Spanish, but I'd imagined the language used during the practical must be simpler than the theory ('go on, turn left/right, brake' etc). I'd still never want to attempt it myself so changed licences two years ago.


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