# Should I?



## Bridgette (Mar 19, 2013)

Hello all.

I'm seriously considering moving to Spain. I'm fed up with life here in the UK.

I lived in Spain 30+ years ago, In fact, I married a Spaniard and have a son who is half Spanish (in his 30s now). At that time I lived in Torre Del Mar and Nerja. This time I'm thinking of moving to Murcia to be near to Cartegena race circuit, as my son and I have always been heavily involved in motorcycle racing and I want to keep a hand in.

The question is, will we be able to find work? My spanish is very rusty now and my son doesn't speak it at all (my fault). It will be a huge leap for both of us, but I think it's what we both ultimately want to do. I'm in my early 50s now and my son is early 30s. He has children in the UK, but they don't live with him and I have grandchildren obviously, but I'm sure it will be the right move for us both. I'm just worried about having an income, as we would both need one.

Thanks in advance.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Bridgette said:


> Hello all.
> 
> I'm seriously considering moving to Spain. I'm fed up with life here in the UK.
> 
> ...


:welcome:

hmmm - work could well be the spanner in the works as far as your plan is concerned 

I'm sure you realise that unemployment in Spain is at 3x that of the UK, and that Spain offers pretty much no state support if it all goes wrong

by all means keep researching & visiting - you might well be one of the lucky ones who gets a job with a contract - you don't say what you do, btw.....

You will have to prove to the govt that you can financially support yourself & that you have healthcare provision in place in order to register as resident

your son should be able to claim Spanish citizenship, so shouldn't have to do that - but that won't make finding a job any easier 

this just isn't a good time...........


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## Bridgette (Mar 19, 2013)

Thank you! Yes, that was my concern.

I have worked as a PA for 25 years but would be willing to do anything. I'm not silly, so hopefully could turn my hand to most things. My son is a fitness instructor and worked for a while as a Locksmith. He was also a semi-professional motorcycle racer and was hoping to maybe start a business involving motorcycles but, as you say, now is not a good time and we appreciate that. However, house prices are lower now, so....

What healthcare provision could/should we make? 

Also, when I lived in Spain before, my then fiance sorted everything out for me, but I do remember having to go to the Police Station every 3 months to get my passport stamped. Presumably I can sort something more long-term this time, but what?


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Bridgette said:


> Thank you! Yes, that was my concern.
> 
> I have worked as a PA for 25 years but would be willing to do anything. I'm not silly, so hopefully could turn my hand to most things. My son is a fitness instructor and worked for a while as a Locksmith. He was also a semi-professional motorcycle racer and was hoping to maybe start a business involving motorcycles but, as you say, now is not a good time and we appreciate that. However, house prices are lower now, so....
> 
> ...


things have changed a LOT since then.....

the 3 months still comes into play - after/at 90 days you need to register as resident - it's becoming increasingly difficult to do anything without the resident registration cert./card 

you need to show either an income or funds in a Spanish bank account & healthcare either in the form of private insurance or an S1 from the DWP in Newcastle - you might qualify for up to 2.5 years healthcare here depending on your NI contributions in the UK


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## Bridgette (Mar 19, 2013)

Many thanks.


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## bob_bob (Jan 5, 2011)

For two of you proof of a regular income of about €900 a month would need to be shown before you can become residents. Sad to say the days of 'turning my hand to anything' are long gone, any odd jobs will rightly go to unemployed Spanish folk. Unemployment on average is around 27% and 55% for younger workers. BBC News - Spain unemployment rate hit a record: youth rate at 55% This combined with no real language skills does really not make your project viable.


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## Don Felipe (Mar 19, 2013)

hi Bridgette,
I think you already know the answer, but I guess you need to have a dream. 
Coming to Spain and looking for work without speaking the language would be very difficult, if not impossible.
The real answer is to stay put and work out the solutions to the problems you are facing.
Good luck.
Don Felipe


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## djfwells (Sep 28, 2009)

Fuhgeddaboudit.


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## Muskin (Jun 5, 2012)

Buy somewhere now if you can afford it, and rent it out until you can find work in Spain.


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## Bridgette (Mar 19, 2013)

Does having money in the bank not count? I would still need to prove a monthly income? Does the same apply to my son (being half Spanish)?

I guess the best idea would be to buy now, get my son his Citizenship and then plan. I still hold the Libro De Familia, which I guess will help.

My language skills aren't _that_ bad. I was once married to a Spaniard who didn't speak a word of English and we still managed to argue  We communicated fine for 6 years. I have a friend in Benalmadena who has lived there 9 years and still doesn't speak more than 10 words, which I find unbelievable and disgraceful.

Thanks for the replies. I guess I need to find another way to return to the country I love so much :Cry:


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Muskin said:


> Buy somewhere now if you can afford it, and rent it out until you can find work in Spain.



Thats something I wouldnt recommend in this economic climate. Property prices are still falling, the exchange rate is unstable and theres no guarantees you'll get tenants. Heck, we rent in the winter and there are soooooooo many empty properties with boards up renting out at silly prices - thats in the Nerja area, but I imagine that would be the same all over the costas

I think the OP would be better off renting for three months and having a good look around to see whats what and to get a feel for how things are

Jo xxx


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## cyclequeen (Oct 5, 2012)

I was going to ask the same as Bridgette, we plan to move to Spain this year & won't be working but have small private pension & the proceeds from the sale of our house to live on. My hubby will get the state pension in 3 years, 10 years off for me though  surely as long as we have enough cash that is enough to become a resident?


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

cyclequeen said:


> I was going to ask the same as Bridgette, we plan to move to Spain this year & won't be working but have small private pension & the proceeds from the sale of our house to live on. My hubby will get the state pension in 3 years, 10 years off for me though  surely as long as we have enough cash that is enough to become a resident?


 Yes, I cant remember the fugure - 5000€ for a couple maybe?????? But do make sure you have enough to live on on a day to day level - unless you're planning to use that capitol ????

Jo xxx


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## Bridgette (Mar 19, 2013)

Phew!!! That's a relief!! Couldn't see the logic in having to have an income without taking savings into consideration and was kind of banking on that to get us started. Although my son will need to work as soon as possible, I might just have enough to live off of my savings until my pension is obtainalbe in 4 years.


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## LojaChica (Jan 5, 2012)

jojo said:


> Yes, I cant remember the fugure - 5000€ for a couple maybe?????? But do make sure you have enough to live on on a day to day level - unless you're planning to use that capitol ????
> 
> Jo xxx


Jo.................is it 5000 OR 50000?


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

LojaChica said:


> Jo.................is it 5000 OR 50000?


 I honestly cant remember. My co mods will I'm sure. Xabiachica will be around in the morning

Jo xxx


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

jojo said:


> I honestly cant remember. My co mods will I'm sure. Xabiachica will be around in the morning
> 
> Jo xxx


I found this that xabiachica wrote on another thread a while ago, so its more than I thought lol



> yes, you can register as resident by having capital - something like 5-6000€ per person seems to be the most quoted figure (there's nothing 'official')


From this thread http://www.expatforum.com/expats/sp...g-spain/142803-residencia-without-income.html

Jo xxx


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## LojaChica (Jan 5, 2012)

Many thanks Jo


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Bridgette said:


> Phew!!! That's a relief!! Couldn't see the logic in having to have an income without taking savings into consideration and was kind of banking on that to get us started. Although my son will need to work as soon as possible, I might just have enough to live off of my savings until my pension is obtainalbe in 4 years.


yes money in the bank does count - & if you have enough to live on without working until you get your pension then it's up to you, really

there's only you to consider, basically, so why not? Maybe make sure you have an 'escape plan/pot' just in case??


since your son has a Spanish father I believe that as far as Spain is concerened he is Spanish - there's a link in our FAQs thread about this

if you fomalise his Spanish nationality before coming he wouldn't have to prove anything or even register


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## Bridgette (Mar 19, 2013)

Many thanks!!

All very helpful.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

xabiachica said:


> if you fomalise his Spanish nationality before coming he wouldn't have to prove anything or even register


But he would have to be contributing to get Spanish health care or have private health insurance. He would probably (not sure) have to have a Spanish ID card so proving and some form of registration would, I guess, be unavoidable.


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## Allie-P (Feb 11, 2013)

jojo said:


> I honestly cant remember. My co mods will I'm sure. Xabiachica will be around in the morning
> 
> Jo xxx





We obtained our Residencia, 2 weeks ago, and were asked to prove monthly income of 1000€ *plus * 5000€ savings.

Fuengirola area - every Provence is different, apparently !!


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## Bridgette (Mar 19, 2013)

Hmmm seems like a 'chicken or egg' situation. Presumably the best thing is to rent for 3 months at a time and keep coming back until work is secured and then move for good?

Is that how you all did it?


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Bridgette said:


> Hmmm seems like a 'chicken or egg' situation. Presumably the best thing is to rent for 3 months at a time and keep coming back until work is secured and then move for good?
> 
> Is that how you all did it?


No, I had a job to come to!
But, I didn't have any savings so I'd have been a bit silly to come on a whim.
Just one thing. You say you want to come to Spain 'cos you're fed up with the UK, which I can understand, believe me, but what do you think Spain can offer you, taking into account the present financial situation, and perhaps more importantly, what can you offer Spain?


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Bridgette said:


> Hmmm seems like a 'chicken or egg' situation. Presumably the best thing is to rent for 3 months at a time and keep coming back until work is secured and then move for good?
> 
> Is that how you all did it?



When we came over to live in Spain, my husband carried on working in the UK and commuting - he was hoping to start a sister company in Spain, but the recession came along and crushed that plan sadly. I did manage to get a part time job after 3 years of living there, selling time share (hhhmmm)!! We're now back in the UK and we're renting in spain for the winter, but we dont get over much unfortunately due to work/family commitments

Jo xxx


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Bridgette said:


> Hmmm seems like a 'chicken or egg' situation. Presumably the best thing is to rent for 3 months at a time and keep coming back until work is secured and then move for good?
> 
> Is that how you all did it?


Like many others, I am a pensioner so have a guaranteed (? with the present government's attitude of rob the poor so that the rich can continue to wallw in luxury) income. With the (what is now) S2 forms from DWP Newsastle to support our healthcare, we had no problems with our residencia. 

But the mother-in-law was a little more complicated since she is not a EU citizen and has no income nor healthcare provision in her own right but, as our dependant, she would qualify, we just had to prove that she was SWMBO's mother! Colombian birth certificates are not a nicely laid out form as in Uk but are a copy of a page of manuscript in a book with a collection of postage and rubber stamps which had to be notarised, etc...... 

We will have been here 5 years in November and are unsure as to whether we will be required to renew.


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## Bridgette (Mar 19, 2013)

Pesky Wesky said:


> No, I had a job to come to!
> But, I didn't have any savings so I'd have been a bit silly to come on a whim.
> Just one thing. You say you want to come to Spain 'cos you're fed up with the UK, which I can understand, believe me, but what do you think Spain can offer you, taking into account the present financial situation, and perhaps more importantly, what can you offer Spain?


I lived in Spain for 6 years in the 80s. I know it's changed a lot, but it's where I've always felt at home. I never once missed the UK when I lived in Spain, but I have missed Spain every single day since I left 30 years ago. 

I love the culture, the people, the way of life, the whole package. I lived 'as the Spanish do' when I lived there before and don't think I would enjoy living in a mini UK (if you understand my meaning). My plan is and always has been to live the way I lived 30 years ago... as the Spanish do! I was married to a Gitano years ago. I wasn't wrapped in cotton wool in an English community. I think I saw Spain how it was intended and that's the way I like it. I only returned when I was pregnant with my son and, back then, the nearest hospital was 2 hours drive away. I was young, pregnant for the first time and wanted to take advantage of the UK system (midwives, etc). Life then took a different path and I never returned. I have regretted that every day since.

I understand your question, but I'm not doing this on a whim or looking through rose tinted glasses. I really feel it's where I want to be.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Bridgette said:


> I lived in Spain for 6 years in the 80s. I know it's changed a lot, but it's where I've always felt at home. I never once missed the UK when I lived in Spain, but I have missed Spain every single day since I left 30 years ago.
> 
> I love the culture, the people, the way of life, the whole package. I lived 'as the Spanish do' when I lived there before and don't think I would enjoy living in a mini UK (if you understand my meaning). My plan is and always has been to live the way I lived 30 years ago... as the Spanish do! I was married to a Gitano years ago. I wasn't wrapped in cotton wool in an English community. I think I saw Spain how it was intended and that's the way I like it. I only returned when I was pregnant with my son and, back then, the nearest hospital was 2 hours drive away. I was young, pregnant for the first time and wanted to take advantage of the UK system (midwives, etc). Life then took a different path and I never returned. I have regretted that every day since.
> 
> I understand your question, but I'm not doing this on a whim or looking through rose tinted glasses. I really feel it's where I want to be.


I dont think the Spanish lived as they did 30 years ago, Spain was somewhat shot into the 21st century - too quickly I think, by the tourism thing when franco died and isnt anything like it used to be. The Spanish people today, want all the trappings and mods and cons of a modern life. There are one or two "typical spanish" villages around where I lived in spain, but they tended to be touristy and actually they have a good mix of many nationalities living in them - who all want the mods and cons!!

I'd say that on the whole, apart from some of the much older generation, spain is much the same as anywhere else in Europe, altho of course the sun shines in the summer, which does generate that "laid back" feeling. but underneath you do have a country of desperate folk and its all a bit unsettled


I guess Pesky Wesky is a bit like you would be if you hadnt gone back to the UK, she's married to a Spanish man, but stayed in spain when she had her daughter

Jo xxx


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## Bridgette (Mar 19, 2013)

jojo said:


> I guess Pesky Wesky is a bit like you would be if you hadnt gone back to the UK, she's married to a Spanish man, but stayed in spain when she had her daughter
> 
> Jo xxx



Braver than me then!!


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Bridgette said:


> I lived in Spain for 6 years in the 80s. I know it's changed a lot, but it's where I've always felt at home. I never once missed the UK when I lived in Spain, but I have missed Spain every single day since I left 30 years ago.
> 
> I love the culture, the people, the way of life, the whole package. I lived 'as the Spanish do' when I lived there before and don't think I would enjoy living in a mini UK (if you understand my meaning). My plan is and always has been to live the way I lived 30 years ago... as the Spanish do! I was married to a Gitano years ago. I wasn't wrapped in cotton wool in an English community. I think I saw Spain how it was intended and that's the way I like it. I only returned when I was pregnant with my son and, back then, the nearest hospital was 2 hours drive away. I was young, pregnant for the first time and wanted to take advantage of the UK system (midwives, etc). Life then took a different path and I never returned. I have regretted that every day since.
> 
> I understand your question, but I'm not doing this on a whim or looking through rose tinted glasses. I really feel it's where I want to be.


Sorry, I didn't mean that you were necessarily coming on a whim, although I realise that's what you could have interpreted from my post. I meant that a lot of people did/ do come to Spain and look around to see what they can pick up once they are here and as things stand there's not a lot of pickings. 
Some people also find that life here is not all sun and sangría (and probably not a lot of the other "s" either...) and discover that they're out of work, have no friends or family, are lonely and broke and fed up. 
But at least you know what Spain is about. The thing is you need to work, and that's going to be difficult, but perhaps the thing is to come over as often as you can and see what you can find.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Bridgette said:


> Braver than me then!!


Well, I had my daughter in Madrid, not in a hospital in the middle of nowhere, and although there was little pre or post natal care I was confident we'd be OK. She was born prematurely at 8 months by emergency caesarean. Now she's 18 and at university! I do have a couple of anecdotes about the doctor whose care I was under though...


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## Bridgette (Mar 19, 2013)

My problem would be that I would need to sell my house here in order to free up my funds. I don't have savings as such, but I do have decent money tied up in my property. It's going to be a tricky one.

I think I have my feet firmly on the ground. I don't really see life being any easier (could be harder in some ways) but with sun and a different mentality, which I like. I have nothing to keep me here now, and as I have always missed Spain, that's where I want to be. Maybe I won't like it second time around, but I have been back for long holidays every year since I left and I still love it with a passion (although not been to Cartegena area before), so I think I would be happy with my decision..... although I have got things wrong in the past


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Bridgette said:


> My problem would be that I would need to sell my house here in order to free up my funds. I don't have savings as such, but I do have decent money tied up in my property. It's going to be a tricky one.
> 
> I think I have my feet firmly on the ground. I don't really see life being any easier (could be harder in some ways) but with sun and a different mentality, which I like. I have nothing to keep me here now, and as I have always missed Spain, that's where I want to be. Maybe I won't like it second time around, but I have been back for long holidays every year since I left and I still love it with a passion (although not been to Cartegena area before), so I think I would be happy with my decision..... although I have got things wrong in the past


If you sell your house and live off the proceeds, what will you do if/when the proceeds run out? What if you really need to return to the UK?? You MUST have a plan B and be very cautious. Spain isnt the cheap and easy place to live anymore, the mentality isnt the same, its a harsh country and its in crisis

Jo xxx


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## Bridgette (Mar 19, 2013)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Well, I had my daughter in Madrid, not in a hospital in the middle of nowhere, and although there was little pre or post natal care I was confident we'd be OK. She was born prematurely at 8 months by emergency caesarean. Now she's 18 and at university! I do have a couple of anecdotes about the doctor whose care I was under though...



Wow!! Much braver than me. I had a friend (cousin of my husband) who had a baby. I was horrified at the system at the time and it frightened me to death. When I then fell pregnant I headed for home fast. Chicken!!!

My son is now 31, so it was a long time ago.

Would love to hear the anecdotes one day


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## Bridgette (Mar 19, 2013)

jojo said:


> If you sell your house and live off the proceeds, what will you do if/when the proceeds run out? What if you really need to return to the UK?? You MUST have a plan B and be very cautious. Spain isnt the cheap and easy place to live anymore, the mentality isnt the same, its a harsh country and its in crisis
> 
> Jo xxx




That's my reason for not wanting to sell up here without at least a fool proof plan (as much as possible) in the bag. I will have enough to buy a property and have savings, but I will still need a job to stop my savings running out (as you rightly said). 

Sounds as though you all had jobs secured and houses bought before you even moved, but I can't see how to do that. Am I missing something?


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Bridgette said:


> That's my reason for not wanting to sell up here without at least a fool proof plan (as much as possible) in the bag. I will have enough to buy a property and have savings, but I will still need a job to stop my savings running out (as you rightly said).
> 
> Sounds as though you all had jobs secured and houses bought before you even moved, but I can't see how to do that. Am I missing something?


 The recession, the exchange rate and the recent tightening up of the rules and regulations. Like I said earlier, we only did it because my husband commuted to the UK to continue working for his business, we also rented out our UK house to fund our spanish rented house. A few folk who moved within the last few years have partners who commute, work off sea (oil rigs), have internet based work or are retired and live on their pensions. Prior to all of this, it was relatively easy. I have friends who have lived in Spain for 10 years + who came over and started estate agencies, building companies, cleaning companies...... but those days are long gone now. In fact many of those friends have returned to the UK as they have found it too difficult to stay and continue now that things are so bad in Spain. 

So, thats how things are. Thats not to say that you or your son wont find anything, but the odds are stacked against you, so caution, dont burn your bridges and a "plan B" are vital!

Jo xxx


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Bridgette said:


> Hmmm seems like a 'chicken or egg' situation. Presumably the best thing is to rent for 3 months at a time and keep coming back until work is secured and then move for good?
> 
> Is that how you all did it?


We sold all properties we owned in the UK and Canada, business and residential, in 2005/6, just before the crisis hit. We moved to Prague with our furniture, goods and chattels and rented a very large, posh house with inground covered swimming pool which because of the good exchange rate cost us comparatively little.
After three years we had had enough and moved to Spain, where my son has property. Furtniture etc. came with us to our new rented villa with pool. It's important to us to have our own things around us.
Not owning property has made life relatively carefree for us. When we decided to move from Prague we had no house to sell. Our first experience in Spain was of renting a flat which we couldn't get used to...so we moved to the house we've been renting for four years.
I would advise that you do not sell your UK property. Finding a job will be very difficult indeed and if you don't like living here you can easily move on if you rent.

We both retired early and are 'comfortable' money-wise. In a couple of years we plan to downsize, move from our village into town. Again, with no worries about having to sell a property, that will be easy-peasy.


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## charlee (May 9, 2011)

baldilocks said:


> Like many others, I am a pensioner so have a guaranteed (? with the present government's attitude of rob the poor so that the rich can continue to wallw in luxury) income. With the (what is now) S2 forms from DWP Newsastle to support our healthcare, we had no problems with our residencia.
> 
> But the mother-in-law was a little more complicated since she is not a EU citizen and has no income nor healthcare provision in her own right but, as our dependant, she would qualify, we just had to prove that she was SWMBO's mother! Colombian birth certificates are not a nicely laid out form as in Uk but are a copy of a page of manuscript in a book with a collection of postage and rubber stamps which had to be notarised, etc......
> 
> We will have been here 5 years in November and are unsure as to whether we will be required to renew.


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## Bridgette (Mar 19, 2013)

What if we were to buy a business? Does that make a difference?

Our plan was always to run a B&B near to Cartegena circuit. I was thinking further down the line, but what if we bought an established business?


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## bob_bob (Jan 5, 2011)

Bridgette...don't sell your UK home, rent it out but don't sell lit. You are burning your bridges and will have a tough time if you return to the UK without a pot to pee in.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Bridgette said:


> What if we were to buy a business? Does that make a difference?
> 
> Our plan was always to run a B&B near to Cartegena circuit. I was thinking further down the line, but what if we bought an established business?


Now just isnt the time. Most established and successful businesses arent for sale. The businesses that are for sale are usually failing, costly to run or in financial trouble. Then theres the paperwork and the costs involved in buying, transferring, not to mention the running costs etc. And if it fails and you've ploughed all of your money in - then what???? It wont be easy to sell, or if the banks take possession, you'll have nothing and nowhere to go

Seriously, Spain isnt financially stable at the moment, give it a few more years.

BTW, I'm not enjoying being negative, so you really need to go and have a look, do some on the spot research, chat to locals and get a feel for everything, but take this knowledge with you and tread cautiously.

Jo xxxx


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## Bridgette (Mar 19, 2013)

jojo said:


> Now just isnt the time. Most established and successful businesses arent for sale. The businesses that are for sale are usually failing, costly to run or in financial trouble. Then theres the paperwork and the costs involved in buying, transferring, not to mention the running costs etc. And if it fails and you've ploughed all of your money in - then what???? It wont be easy to sell, or if the banks take possession, you'll have nothing and nowhere to go
> 
> Seriously, Spain isnt financially stable at the moment, give it a few more years.
> 
> ...



I don't mind the negativity. I need to know what the situation is. However, I still want to move to Spain at some point. I don't have much to keep me here now and it's always been my dream. I'm in my 50s now, so if I don't do it within the next couple of years, I probably won't ever do it and I don't want that to happen. I don't mind living from hand to mouth as long as I'm happy and Spain makes me happy.

One question I did have though was.... why are people returning to the UK? What's here for them that isn't in Spain? The NHS has completely gone to the dogs, the housing and benefit system has gone completely the way of the immigrants with British Citizens qualifying for VERY little, everything is horrendously expensive and the crime rate is frightening. Surely Spain can't be any worse, can it? 

Don't worry about being negative. If you're being realistic, then I need to hear it xxx


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## Calas felices (Nov 29, 2007)

You sound like a Daily Mail reader! but how much do you know about these things in Spain. If you cared to do some research you would find that crime in the UK is reducing and crime in Spain is rising (both facts from official figures). However, you must make up your own mind but there are a lot of people on this board who live in the real Spain not that of holidays makers and realise the true situation. Listen to them rather than get your facts from dubious sources.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Bridgette said:


> One question I did have though was.... why are people returning to the UK? What's here for them that isn't in Spain? The NHS has completely gone to the dogs, the housing and benefit system has gone completely the way of the immigrants with British Citizens qualifying for VERY little, everything is horrendously expensive and the crime rate is frightening. Surely Spain can't be any worse, can it?
> 
> Don't worry about being negative. If you're being realistic, then I need to hear it xxx


I would have asked that question before we went to live in Spain, but living there for four years, I think I now understand why. Distance can make you see things differently and for all of its faults, the UK is safe, easy to manage and logical. The financial problems in the UK are in Spain too!

First of all Spain isnt much cheaper than the UK. Spain can be infuriating with its rules, regulations, inefficiencies, paperwork... in the end it gets really tiring. But also, the things I used to dislike about the UK; the political correctness, the soft welfare state, the "nanny" state, even the NHS - Well theres none of this in Spain. Good, I used to think, but you soon realise that when theres a problem or a crisis - you need "nanny" and sorting anything is such hard work - theres no clear cut rules that can be sorted quickly and they change daily. For example, when you apply for permits, SS numbers etc, they think nothing of turning you away simply because you havent got photocopies - you can wait months/years to be granted permits and no one will step in and make it right. In Spain unless you've paid into their system for a significant amount of time, you cant claim anything - even then theres a two year limit. Spain is a harsh country and if you hit hard times, then dont turn to the authorities, they wont do anything. The Spanish turn to their families, the expats go back to the UK.

Thew hospital/NHS system is possibly better, but nurses dont do the pastoral care, the relatives have to do the washing, cleaning etc. You still have to pay the prescriptions and the phamacies go on strike fairly frequently because of the crisis (Apparently they're not getting paid from the government). The crisis is causing the infrastructure to fail - due to strikes, staff cuts, lack of finance etc.

Crime is everywhwere, I think criminals are more aggressive in the UK, but in Spain there are some desperate people and there is crime, gangs of criminals, illegal immigrants who live from crime. There are also a lot of beggars, genuine people who have no money

The one thing I did appreciate when we came back to the UK was that things are orderly, the rules I once disliked were a refreshing change from the chaos and inefficiencies!

Jo xxx


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Bridgette said:


> I don't mind the negativity. I need to know what the situation is. However, I still want to move to Spain at some point. I don't have much to keep me here now and it's always been my dream. I'm in my 50s now, so if I don't do it within the next couple of years, I probably won't ever do it and I don't want that to happen. I don't mind living from hand to mouth as long as I'm happy and Spain makes me happy.
> 
> One question I did have though was.... why are people returning to the UK? What's here for them that isn't in Spain? The NHS has completely gone to the dogs, the housing and benefit system has gone completely the way of the immigrants with British Citizens qualifying for VERY little, everything is horrendously expensive and the crime rate is frightening. Surely Spain can't be any worse, can it?
> 
> Don't worry about being negative. If you're being realistic, then I need to hear it xxx


the health service in Spain is OK atm - but in my area the farmacias have been on strike several times because they haven't been paid by the govt.

services are being cut - my daughter is having physio 3 times a week atm - she has to miss school because the evening sessions no longer happen - I guess it's a matter of time before waiting lists grow

there essentially is NO govt support if you're unemployed - essentially no benefit system at all - the very most you get is something like 400€ a month - that's it - no housing benefit, food stamps - nothing else - & you only get that if you've been here for years already & have previously paid into the system

crime is certainly on the increase - more & more burglaries, muggings, scams, car break-ins etc are being reported daily - I never used to hear of ANY crime around here

the busiest unit in an indoor market here is the one which collects food, clothes etc to give away to families in need - they have queues out the door the 3 days a week they open

we have two (maybe more) soup kitchens as well - they provide the only meal their clients get each day

& this is an 'affluent' area...

there are marches in the streets all the time all over the country against the various cuts - the schools are on strike on a regular basis too



I don't know what it's like in the UK - but I don't think it's worse than that??


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## Bridgette (Mar 19, 2013)

lol When did you last go back to the UK? Your description of Spain had MANY similarities to the UK as it is now.

I lost my dad a few months ago. The care he received in hospital was minimal. There was no pastoral care. He wasn't washed, fed or given his medication. If family members weren't there to do it, it didn't happen. There was a story on the news only a couple of weeks ago about the number of elderly people who die in hospital of starvation because the nurses don't have time to feed them. Crime on the decrease? Not where I live!!!! Nearly all of my neighbours are now Polish or Indian. Every shop is run by Polish or Indians. There is a whole Polish community of pick pockets working the local area. I'm not racist by any means, but I don't live amongst English people any more and there is no 'community'. 

All in all, the picture you paint of Spain isn't that different to over here. I know times are hard and I can imagine the rules, regulations and inefficiencies being infuriating. I remember when I wanted to get married in Spain. I'm not Catholic and they made it impossible. We were told get this paperwork, get that, but it was never enough and the rules changed daily. From what you say, that side hasn't changed.

I'm not looking at living in Spain as a extended holiday. I'm not thinking of the sunshine. I'm thinking it's where I was happy and where I would like to end my days. I have visited regularly and haven't completely lost touch and I don't read the papers, not even the Daily Mail ;-)


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Bridgette said:


> lol When did you last go back to the UK? Your description of Spain had MANY similarities to the UK as it is now.
> 
> I lost my dad a few months ago. The care he received in hospital was minimal. There was no pastoral care. He wasn't washed, fed or given his medication. If family members weren't there to do it, it didn't happen. There was a story on the news only a couple of weeks ago about the number of elderly people who die in hospital of starvation because the nurses don't have time to feed them. Crime on the decrease? Not where I live!!!! Nearly all of my neighbours are now Polish or Indian. Every shop is run by Polish or Indians. There is a whole Polish community of pick pockets working the local area. I'm not racist by any means, but I don't live amongst English people any more and there is no 'community'.
> 
> ...


your description of the hospital is exactly as it was when my dad was in hospital here - I did _everything _for him - except bathe him because he wouldn't let me, so the nurses did it

I was in the UK for a month last year - against my will - we were only there because my husband died there & it took forever to arrange the funeral - that's one thing Spain does much better!!


I'm not saying it's worse in Spain - as I said - I don't really know, since I haven't lived in the UK for getting on for 10 years now & intend to stay here in Spain 

but you asked - I didn't necessarily think that you personally didn't realise what it's like here - but many many other people will read this thread who might not realise 

it_ might not _be worse on a day to day basis - but it for sure isn't better as far as all those things are concerned - & there's no denying that unemployment IS 3 times as bad - that's a fact - & there's no safety net if it all goes wrong


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## neilmac (Sep 10, 2008)

jojo said:


> Now just isnt the time. Most established and successful businesses arent for sale. *The businesses that are for sale are usually failing, costly to run or in financial trouble.* Then theres the paperwork and the costs involved in buying, transferring, not to mention the running costs etc. And if it fails and you've ploughed all of your money in - then what???? It wont be easy to sell, or if the banks take possession, you'll have nothing and nowhere to go
> 
> Seriously, Spain isnt financially stable at the moment, give it a few more years.
> 
> ...


Just to say that our 'business for sale' is not as highlighted as above - we are selling up for other personal reasons. We still get enquiries after 2/3 years of being closed - no advertising, no updating of website, no marketing whatever in fact.

I agree that generally things are bad (understatement) but there are people who can make things work depending upon what they need from a business. Vitally for a B&B, where it is and the ability to offer something different is required other than just a bed e.g. photography, walking, fishing, cycling, yoga, fiestas, and so on! Never underestimate the amount of money that people will spend on hobbies especially where there is some reliable sunshine in which to enjoy it!

We for example have had more than a few pilots training for their ultra light licences at the local flying school because the weather in England just prevents them from getting airborne enough!

I do agree that plenty of research is essential.....................

Good luck OP I hope you get what you want!


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

Bridgette said:


> lol When did you last go back to the UK? Your description of Spain had MANY similarities to the UK as it is now.
> 
> I lost my dad a few months ago. The care he received in hospital was minimal. There was no pastoral care. He wasn't washed, fed or given his medication. If family members weren't there to do it, it didn't happen. There was a story on the news only a couple of weeks ago about the number of elderly people who die in hospital of starvation because the nurses don't have time to feed them. Crime on the decrease? Not where I live!!!! Nearly all of my neighbours are now Polish or Indian. Every shop is run by Polish or Indians. There is a whole Polish community of pick pockets working the local area. I'm not racist by any means, but I don't live amongst English people any more and there is no 'community'.
> 
> ...


I'm sorry I don't want to sound negative .... but there is a hell of a difference between being happy here on visits and living here.

The bottom line is that most people I know say the same. Living in Spain is just like living in the UK but with sunshine. They do the same things that they would have done in the UK. They don't do the things that they imagined they would do before they came here.

Sometimes it can be quite stressful. Just when you think you have everything covered, something else pops up! 

Good luck you ... I haven't read all the thread to be honest, just caught your comments above. All I would say is that visiting here when you have somewhere to get back to in the UK is very very different to coming here with no way back. I'm lucky, I have a place in the UK whereas I know of those that want to return but cant because they have nowhere to go.

I cant fault the health care in Spain btw, I needed it once and it delivered. In the UK I feel the same. Its a flawed system, but we always felt it was good for us


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## Bridgette (Mar 19, 2013)

neilmac said:


> Just to say that our 'business for sale' is not as highlighted as above - we are selling up for other personal reasons. We still get enquiries after 2/3 years of being closed - no advertising, no updating of website, no marketing whatever in fact.
> 
> I agree that generally things are bad (understatement) but there are people who can make things work depending upon what they need from a business. Vitally for a B&B, where it is and the ability to offer something different is required other than just a bed e.g. photography, walking, fishing, cycling, yoga, fiestas, and so on! Never underestimate the amount of money that people will spend on hobbies especially where there is some reliable sunshine in which to enjoy it!
> 
> ...


Our idea is similar to your flying school custom. 

I have been doing a lot of research for the past year. My son was a professional motorcycle racer for a few years. Our whole life was racing for 10 years in fact. A lot of a racer's time is spent testing bikes and getting track time. In the UK there are track day companies that organise this. Every year there are several track day companies that visit Spanish race circuits due to the poor weather in the UK. I have been in touch with all of them and asked them... "If there was a B&B that offered Bed, Breakfast, Evening meal, transport to and from the circuit, on track tuition and bike maintenance for the duration of the trip, would you/your clients be interested". The feed back I have had is that they are ready to snap my hand off.

That was our idea and our dream.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

In the end both countries (and Europe) are in a mess. The differences that I can see living in both countries are that the UK is trying to maintain a dignity and keep up with their promises. Spain feels a bit like a headless chicken. I never thought I'd say this, but I think as things are at the moment I'm glad I'm in the UK - eventho (and everyone knows it)) I love and prefer my life in Spain, but things arent the same there now. I have lots of friends who are in Nerja - a bar that we used to go to (and for those of my facebook friends, the bar I'm photoed singing in regularly lol) has just closed and they've returned to the UK - I'm gutted for them, they worked sooooo hard and are such lovely people! My Spanish friends over there are in turmoil, one chap cant afford to make his car legal or pay his rent and his mum has to keep bailing him out, eventhough she cant afford to (She's British and receives a UK pension), another one who owns a bar, had to give up her apartment and now lives in the kitchen of her bar (she sleeps in a sleeping bag on the floor!).

It seems hopeless - as it does in the UK, but somehow (maybe its as simple as I understand the UK) Spain doesnt seem as organised or as willing/able to get it sorted....

Jo xxx


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## Bridgette (Mar 19, 2013)

Stravinsky said:


> The bottom line is that most people I know say the same. Living in Spain is just like living in the UK but with sunshine. They do the same things that they would have done in the UK.



That's all I expect!!!


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

jojo said:


> In the end both countries (and Europe) are in a mess. The differences that I can see living in both countries are that the UK is trying to maintain a dignity and keep up with their promises. Spain feels a bit like a headless chicken. I never thought I'd say this, but I think as things are at the moment I'm glad I'm in the UK - eventho (and everyone knows it)) I love and prefer my life in Spain, but things arent the same there now. I have lots of friends who are in Nerja - a bar that we used to go to (and for those of my facebook friends, the bar I'm photoed singing in regularly lol) has just closed and they've returned to the UK - I'm gutted for them, they worked sooooo hard and are such lovely people! My Spanish friends over there are in turmoil, one chap cant afford to make his car legal or pay his rent and his mum has to keep bailing him out, eventhough she cant afford to (She's British and receives a UK pension), another one who owns a bar, had to give up her apartment and now lives in the kitchen of her bar (she sleeps in a sleeping bag on the floor!).
> 
> *It seems hopeless - as it does in the UK, but somehow (maybe its as simple as I understand the UK) Spain doesnt seem as organised or as willing to get it sorted....*
> 
> Jo xxx


Absolutely right
To give you an example, Valencia region is in loads of trouble financially
I went to the town hall yesterday to get a copy of my 2011 IBI bill. They advised me that I have never paid it. They then produced two more bills going back to 2007 that they say I haven't paid. I've never had anyone send me a letter, a reminder .... nothing. I cant prove or disprove after all this time, as we pay cash and have no receipts. My neighbour from the UK hasn't paid an IBI for years, even though he has a d/d set up. He lives in the UK and doesn't come here much. So on two houses that's possibly €2000 - €2500. If that's happening a lot, with no interest in collecting the old monies, then no wonder they are in such a mess.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Bridgette said:


> That's all I expect!!!



Get your butt over there for a fact finding visit Bridgette lol!!! But do look "behind the scenes" Think about what you'd do if things fail for you and theres no "nanny" state, think about what things will be like on a day to day level, about how you'll cope with little or no money, about how you and your son would be able to integrate (even tho he has spanish roots), the cost of living, utility bills....... 

Jo xxx


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## Bridgette (Mar 19, 2013)

jojo said:


> Get your butt over there for a fact finding visit Bridgette lol!!! But do look "behind the scenes" Think about what you'd do if things fail for you and theres no "nanny" state, think about what things will be like on a day to day level, about how you'll cope with little or no money, about how you and your son would be able to integrate (even tho he has spanish roots), the cost of living, utility bills.......
> 
> Jo xxx


My son has family (his dad, step mum, step brothers and sisters) in Torrevieja, which isn't a million miles away from Cartegena, so I think he'll be OK and find his feet. As long as I have food to eat and money to pay my bills I'll be happy but, like you say, I need to ensure that happens.

We were hoping that our business idea, being fairly dependent on the UK rather than Spain, would give us the slight advantage but more research to do on that one.

Thanks for all your advice, Jo x


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Bridgette;109801[QUOTE said:


> 3 Nearly all of my neighbours are now Polish or Indian. Every shop is run by Polish or Indians. There is a whole Polish community of pick pockets working the local area. I'm not racist by any means, but I don't live amongst English people any more and there is no 'community'.


[/QUOTE]

I'm just wondering what you say about immigrants and immigration here. I believe you when you say that immigration creates lots of problems, but immigration is here in Spain too, especially in Alicante, and especially in Torrevieja which you mentioned in another post. And if you come here to live you will be an immigrant too, just like I am.
In 2011, 24,13% of the population of Alicante were foreigners. And who's at the top of the list? Yes, we are! So the UK residents in Spain spend their money here, pay their taxes, and abide by the rules... or do they? Not surprisingly no, not all of us do and many of us operate illegal business from getting paid for being key holders for rented apartments to unofficial taxi runs to the airport to paying bar staff under the table.
I was in Orihuela costa last weekend and also went to Torrevieja and Cartegena. In Orihuela Costa you were hard pushed to find a Spanish speaker although I must say there seemed to be more Spanish people working in the restaurants and bars than 3 years ago when I last went. In the bars and supermarkets most of the products offered are foreign, in the restaurants the menu's more likely to be in English than Spanish and you'll find a German newspaper much more easily than a Spanish one.
And the people who are living there are happy, very happy to be living in their immigrant bubble and are not particularly interested in Spain and what's happening in Spain. Just like a lot of immigrants living in the UK.

Provincia de Alicante - Wikipedia, la enciclopedia libre
*Población extranjera*

Nacionalidades extranjeras con más de 5.000 habitantes (2011)4 Posición Nacionalidad Población 1.ª







Reino Unido 131.058 2.ª







Alemania 36.331 3.ª







Marruecos 35.122 4.ª







Rumanía 32.899 5.ª







Ecuador 19.649 6.ª







Colombia 17.481 7.ª







Países Bajos 16.810 8.ª







Bulgaria 12.856 9.ª







Francia 11.369 10.ª







Italia 10.906 11.ª







Bélgica 10.818 12.ª







Rusia 10.065 13.ª







Noruega 9.939 14.ª







Argelia 9.052 15.ª







Argentina 8.784 16.ª







China 7.760 17.ª







Ucrania 7.707 18.ª







Suecia 6.483 19.ª







Suiza


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Pesky Wesky said:


> I'm just wondering what you say about immigrants and immigration here. I believe you when you say that immigration creates lots of problems, but immigration is here in Spain too, especially in Alicante, and especially in Torrevieja which you mentioned in another post. And if you come here to live you will be an immigrant too, just like I am.
> In 2011, 24,13% of the population of Alicante were foreigners. And who's at the top of the list? Yes, we are! So the UK residents in Spain spend their money here, pay their taxes, and abide by the rules... or do they? Not surprisingly no, not all of us do and many of us operate illegal business from getting paid for being key holders for rented apartments to unofficial taxi runs to the airport to paying bar staff under the table.
> I was in Orihuela costa last weekend and also went to Torrevieja and Cartegena. In Orihuela Costa you were hard pushed to find a Spanish speaker although I must say there seemed to be more Spanish people working in the restaurants and bars than 3 years ago when I last went. In the bars and supermarkets most of the products offered are foreign, in the restaurants the menu's more likely to be in English than Spanish and you'll find a German newspaper much more easily than a Spanish one.
> And the people who are living there are happy, very happy to be living in their immigrant bubble and are not particularly interested in Spain and what's happening in Spain. Just like a lot of immigrants living in the UK.
> ...



You'll find squillions of immigrants in Spain - polish, russian, morrocan, northern european and............. British!!!! The Spanish governemt arent as soft as the UK tho, so the immigrants will work by fair means or foul, they have no choice.

Jo xxx


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## Bridgette (Mar 19, 2013)

Pesky Wesky said:


> I'm just wondering what you say about immigrants and immigration here. I believe you when you say that immigration creates lots of problems, but immigration is here in Spain too, especially in Alicante, and especially in Torrevieja which you mentioned in another post. And if you come here to live you will be an immigrant too, just like I am.
> In 2011, 24,13% of the population of Alicante were foreigners. And who's at the top of the list? Yes, we are! So the UK residents in Spain spend their money here, pay their taxes, and abide by the rules... or do they? Not surprisingly no, not all of us do and many of us operate illegal business from getting paid for being key holders for rented apartments to unofficial taxi runs to the airport to paying bar staff under the table.
> I was in Orihuela costa last weekend and also went to Torrevieja and Cartegena. In Orihuela Costa you were hard pushed to find a Spanish speaker although I must say there seemed to be more Spanish people working in the restaurants and bars than 3 years ago when I last went. In the bars and supermarkets most of the products offered are foreign, in the restaurants the menu's more likely to be in English than Spanish and you'll find a German newspaper much more easily than a Spanish one.
> And the people who are living there are happy, very happy to be living in their immigrant bubble and are not particularly interested in Spain and what's happening in Spain. Just like a lot of immigrants living in the UK.
> ...



Maybe my post came across wrong. I don't have a problem with immigrants and realise I would be one too. What I meant was, the UK is certainly not what it used to be. British people are now (in my opinion0 treated as second class citizens in our own country. I fully understand though that I would be an immigrant if I moved to Spain.

Torrevieja is where my ex husband now lives, or at least did the last time we heard from him. He tends to move around a bit.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Bridgette said:


> Maybe my post came across wrong. I don't have a problem with immigrants and realise I would be one too. What I meant was, the UK is certainly not what it used to be. British people are now (in my opinion0 treated as second class citizens in our own country. I fully understand though that I would be an immigrant if I moved to Spain


I agree to a point about the UK and immigrants, altho in the end, it'll all be equal. I get annoyed when you hear Brits moaning that "immigrants are taking our jobs" When most of those saying it are actually thinking "thank god we've got an excuse to not work and go on the dole" And thats not actually true anyway!!!!

And to be flippant, Spain doesnt treat their own as second class citizens -- thats how they treat the immigrants - so you'll feel at home then - only joking lol!!!!!!!!

Jo xxx


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## Bridgette (Mar 19, 2013)

jojo said:


> I agree to a point about the UK and immigrants, altho in the end, it'll all be equal. I get annoyed when you hear Brits moaning that "immigrants are taking our jobs" When most of those saying it are actually thinking "thank god we've got an excuse to not work and go on the dole" And thats not actually true anyway!!!!
> 
> And to be flippant, Spain doesnt treat their own as second class citizens -- thats how they treat the immigrants - so you'll feel at home then - only joking lol!!!!!!!!
> 
> Jo xxx


I will feel right at home then :lol:

The UK is crazy. When I returned from Spain many years ago I couldn't get a job at first. I was told to sign on, as "everyone does". I went to SS office with my husband. They asked me where I had been living for the past 6 years and I told them, Spain. They then asked if I worked there and I said that my husband had supported me. They then told me that I couldn't claim a penny, but my husband (a Spaniard who had only just arrived in the UK) could claim for us both. I couldn't believe it. I never did claim in the end, as I got a job later that day, but it always amazed me that that was the way the UK operated. I think it's good that Spain make it hard for the immigrants.


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## zenkarma (Feb 15, 2013)

Bridgette said:


> Torrevieja is where my ex husband now lives, or at least did the last time we heard from him...


Hello Bridgette,

I thought I'd toss in my happenny's worth having read through the thread.

Some good advice given to you in the thread so far, Spain isn't what it used to be, it's a lot tougher.

However, you have a vision, you have a dream which isn't based on fickle fancy or the happiness of a one off holiday. You seem to be at least aware of some of the problems and pragmatic enough to work round them.

Start doing your research and start finding possible loopholes.

You mention your ex-husband is Spanish, can you perhaps get residencia on the basis of this? You might not then have to prove saving's income etc. 

My advice with regards to your house is, as others have already mentioned - don't sell it. Rent it, and rent in Spain too, it's a renters market, not a buyers market at the moment and it's likely to stay that way for some time. 

Forget the cheap attractive property prices - there's literally millions of them on the market, so don't make the same mistake as many have and buy one and get stuck with it if your plans change and you need to return home. Renting gives you that flexibility.

If you want I can crunch you figures to show you that in the short to medium term (next 10 years or so) given the transaction, running and purchase (mortgage) costs on buying and selling a property you will not be losing money over renting. In other words over a period of time the amount of rent you pay ='s the amount of money you would paid to buy. So the view 'it's dead money' doesn't really apply.

The only time you should start considering purchasing is when your pension comes through and you have a guaranteed source of income AND prices start rising. They won't rise significantly in my opinion for at least 10 years or perhaps even longer. So no hurry to buy.

From what I can tell, your biggest problem seems to be your son, because he needs to work and work is scarce in Spain at the moment - for everyone.

What you propose is doable, you just need to sit down now and do the research and make it so.

Good luck.


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## Nononymous (Jul 12, 2011)

Bridgette said:


> Nearly all of my neighbours are now Polish or Indian. Every shop is run by Polish or Indians. There is a whole Polish community of pick pockets working the local area. I'm not racist by any means, but I don't live amongst English people any more and there is no 'community'.


Sorry, lurking on this thread.

If being surrounded by "foreigners" is a problem, how is becoming one in another country going to improve matters?


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Nononymous said:


> Sorry, lurking on this thread.
> 
> If being surrounded by "foreigners" is a problem, how is becoming one in another country going to improve matters?


You'd be surprised how many British immigrants in Spain say they've left the UK 'because of all the foreigners'.

I guess that people who enjoy living in British immigrant enclaves can keep away from 'foreigners aka Spaniards'.

Question is, what about those poor Spaniards who find themselves surrounded by British immigrants aka foreigners, I wonder..


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Nononymous said:


> Sorry, lurking on this thread.
> 
> If being surrounded by "foreigners" is a problem, how is becoming one in another country going to improve matters?


If you go to Orihuela Costa it wouldn't be a problem as your neighbours would be British in the majority


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

charlee said:


>


And your point is????


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## bob_bob (Jan 5, 2011)

Bridgette said:


> lol When did you last go back to the UK? Your description of Spain had MANY similarities to the UK as it is now.
> 
> I lost my dad a few months ago. *The care he received in hospital was minimal. There was no pastoral care. He wasn't washed, fed or given his medication*. If family members weren't there to do it, it didn't happen. There was a story on the news only a couple of weeks ago about the number of elderly people who die in hospital of starvation because the nurses don't have time to feed them. Crime on the decrease? Not where I live!!!! Nearly all of my neighbours are now Polish or Indian. Every shop is run by Polish or Indians. There is a whole Polish community of pick pockets working the local area. I'm not racist by any means, but I don't live amongst English people any more and there is no 'community'.
> 
> ...


If that did actually happen I'd have had the NHS trust in court and you'd now have enough money to move to Spain. It would most certainly NOT have happened on my ward or any ward I've worked on. The Polish/Asian shopkeepers are prepared to work far more hours than a typical brit and this is why they are successful retailers. My local village shop is run by a charming Indian chap who works 07:00 - 21:30 seven days a week, even xmas; very few brits will do that so good luck to these immigrants who are keeping the corner shop open in the UK.

You need to be honest, you've no money, no skills and your too old to move to Spain with any realistic hope of seeing your years out there. What happens in fifteen years time when you have no pension and no benefit system to fall back on? Just go on as many holidays as you can. A UK re-location may help cheer you up too.


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## cyclequeen (Oct 5, 2012)

I've noticed the general consensus is not to sell your house in the UK but rent it out & rent in Spain, we intend to rent there for at least the first year. But our worry with renting out our house as opposed to selling it is the added problems, stress this may bring if you get dodgy tenants. So this is why we have come down more on the side of selling & trying to invest our money, in Gib off shore, to give us a life time income along with our state pensions & small private ones. A tricky one as when you have tenants & are out of the country I would imagine this is more difficult than being in situ. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

cyclequeen said:


> I've noticed the general consensus is not to sell your house in the UK but rent it out & rent in Spain, we intend to rent there for at least the first year. But our worry with renting out our house as opposed to selling it is the added problems, stress this may bring if you get dodgy tenants. So this is why we have come down more on the side of selling & trying to invest our money, in Gib off shore, to give us a life time income along with our state pensions & small private ones. A tricky one as when you have tenants & are out of the country I would imagine this is more difficult than being in situ. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.


the only problem if you sell up in the UK & buy here, if it doesn't work out for one reason or another there would be little to no chance of you being able to sell up here & go back

at the moment you can probably think of no circumstances under which you'd do that - but some people just find that they can't settle here for one reason or another

even if you didn't want to go back - you might find that the property/area you bought in weren't quite right...and again, the chances of being able to sell & move are slim to zero

you might say, as a recent poster did ''but if I was moving to a different part of the UK I wouldn't rent 'just to see' - I'd look around & buy ''

but moving to a different country is _different _, & what you might think you want could turn out to be exactly what you don't _need, _once you are here


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

xabiachica said:


> you might say, as a recent poster did ''but if I was moving to a different part of the UK I wouldn't rent 'just to see' - I'd look around & buy ''
> 
> but moving to a different country is _different _, & what you might think you want could turn out to be exactly what you don't _need, _once you are here


I agree. We were born and bred in the UK. We know a lot more about it than living in Spain. Not everything, but there's a lot of background and cultural knowledge that's just there because we're British. You can't hope to have the same kind of knowledge about a place in a foreign country after a couple of trips to scout around an area.


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## oronero (Aug 24, 2012)

Bridgette said:


> Our idea is similar to your flying school custom.
> 
> I have been doing a lot of research for the past year. My son was a professional motorcycle racer for a few years. Our whole life was racing for 10 years in fact. A lot of a racer's time is spent testing bikes and getting track time. In the UK there are track day companies that organise this. Every year there are several track day companies that visit Spanish race circuits due to the poor weather in the UK. I have been in touch with all of them and asked them... "If there was a B&B that offered Bed, Breakfast, Evening meal, transport to and from the circuit, on track tuition and bike maintenance for the duration of the trip, would you/your clients be interested". The feed back I have had is that they are ready to snap my hand off.
> 
> That was our idea and our dream.


I have been reading this thread with interest since the beginning and was waiting until I got to the end to mention what you have posted above. 

I am researching a similar thing, though mine is to relocate to Portugal where I have noticed that they do two day track events, including a set of new tyres for about 430 Euros. As you know a single track day in the UK can cost £160 and the weather is not so predictable, well it wasn't last summer! Perhaps the Spanish tracks do a similar thing to the Portuguese ones. 

I found the information out about the track days in Portugal through their Ducati owners club. I am sure that the motorcycle clubs in Spain would offer the same for their members. I know of a few people who go off to Spain to do track days, there must be money to be made, especially if you are close to a track or within easy access. 

Perhaps you can look at renting a suitable place for 6 months and give it a go out there and see how it works out?

Remember that your B&B could also cater for motorcycle touring holidays, if you choose the right place you son could take people on several different local tours around the area...just a thought.

Best of luck.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Bridgette said:


> Our idea is similar to your flying school custom.
> 
> I have been doing a lot of research for the past year. My son was a professional motorcycle racer for a few years. Our whole life was racing for 10 years in fact. A lot of a racer's time is spent testing bikes and getting track time. In the UK there are track day companies that organise this. Every year there are several track day companies that visit Spanish race circuits due to the poor weather in the UK. I have been in touch with all of them and asked them... "If there was a B&B that offered Bed, Breakfast, Evening meal, transport to and from the circuit, on track tuition and bike maintenance for the duration of the trip, would you/your clients be interested". The feed back I have had is that they are ready to snap my hand off.
> 
> That was our idea and our dream.


I think the plan sounds interesting. The drawbacks for me are the financing of it ( I would never put *all* my money into a business, especially nowadays in Spain), and the fact that you'll need to liase with the Spanish on all sorts of levels and you don't have the language skills, which mens you need a trusted third party which will take another cut of money.


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## zenkarma (Feb 15, 2013)

cyclequeen said:


> So this is why we have come down more on the side of selling & trying to invest our money, in Gib off shore, to give us a life time income along with our state pensions & small private ones. A tricky one as when you have tenants & are out of the country I would imagine this is more difficult than being in situ. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.


It isn't an easy choice to make, there are disadvantages on both sides of the coin.

Selling up and putting your money in the bank will slowly be eroded by inflation and low interest rates, that is the biggest problem to putting money in the bank.

What's the best rate of interest you'll get in the bank? 3%? Real inflation is running at 5-6%, you're losing 3% straight away year on year. Invest in equities? It's a brave person that does that in todays climate.

You'll still pay tax on this income by the way even if it's in a tax free place like Gibraltar, it's only tax free whilst it's in Gibraltar, as soon as you try and bring it into Spain it's taxable. So unless you're planning on withdrawing cash in Gibraltar free of tax and then bringing that into Spain (which is illegal if you don't pay tax on it) you'll be in trouble.

Yes, renting has it's problems, but in the UK the rental market is quite buoyant due to the difficulty many people have in getting mortgages. Rental income will easily outstrip what you'll get in the bank and match inflation. You should expect to get at least 5-6% on your capital value in rental income. Okay, you may have to pay some of that in management fees for someone to manage the property in your absence but you'll still end up with more than putting cash in the bank. Plus you retain your house in the UK should you ever need to return.

This is why I think a lot of people view renting as a better option, as long as you can manage the problems associated with renting.

I don't really think the UK housing market will change much in the short term as long as interest rates remain where they are, which they probably will do for the foreseeable future for the simple reason that the government can't afford to raise them given the huge interest payments they have to make on their debt.

If interest rates do rise, the housing market will suffer, that's the point you want to think about selling up and putting your money in bank. But I just don't see that happening anytime soon to be honest.


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## Bridgette (Mar 19, 2013)

I seem to have generated a lot of negative replies. Maybe I didn't make it clear that I have lived in Spain before and lived with a Spaniard. I wasn't on holiday and I wasn't living with another Brit and doing things the British way. I washed our clothes in the sink with a scrubbing board, had two gas rings to cook on, a mop a few dishes and sheets for the bed. We didn't have a television or a comfy sofa to sit on. We spent as much time travelling between Nerja, Motril, Malaga, Almunecar and Granada to see family as we did at home. I know enough Spanish to live with a man who didn't speak one word of English and I'm not expecting an extended holiday. I just want to return the country that I loved. 

I'm not that stupid that I don't realise I will be a foreignor. I was once before La palla, La extranjera. I 'don't expect to be anything different.

Thank you for the 'realistic' comments and also thank you for the positive, encouraging comments. I hope one day my dream will come true. If not, my son still plans to return to Spain to stay with his father for a while and see how things go. I will keep doing my research and see how that goes.

Thanks again.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Bridgette said:


> I seem to have generated a lot of negative replies. Maybe I didn't make it clear that I have lived in Spain before and lived with a Spaniard. I wasn't on holiday and I wasn't living with another Brit and doing things the British way. I washed our clothes in the sink with a scrubbing board, had two gas rings to cook on, a mop a few dishes and sheets for the bed. We didn't have a television or a comfy sofa to sit on. We spent as much time travelling between Nerja, Motril, Malaga, Almunecar and Granada to see family as we did at home. I know enough Spanish to live with a man who didn't speak one word of English and I'm not expecting an extended holiday. I just want to return the country that I loved.
> 
> I'm not that stupid that I don't realise I will be a foreignor. I was once before La palla, La extranjera. I 'don't expect to be anything different.
> 
> ...


 Spain isnt the same place that you lived in before, but I accept that you do have "experience" and know the language. Try it, just dont burn you're bridges

Jo xxx


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## Bridgette (Mar 19, 2013)

Nononymous said:


> Sorry, lurking on this thread.
> 
> If being surrounded by "foreigners" is a problem, how is becoming one in another country going to improve matters?



I expect to be a foreigner in Spain. I didn't expect to be one in the UK.


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## Bridgette (Mar 19, 2013)

bob_bob said:


> If that did actually happen I'd have had the NHS trust in court and you'd now have enough money to move to Spain. It would most certainly NOT have happened on my ward or any ward I've worked on. The Polish/Asian shopkeepers are prepared to work far more hours than a typical brit and this is why they are successful retailers. My local village shop is run by a charming Indian chap who works 07:00 - 21:30 seven days a week, even xmas; very few brits will do that so good luck to these immigrants who are keeping the corner shop open in the UK.
> 
> You need to be honest, you've no money, no skills and your too old to move to Spain with any realistic hope of seeing your years out there. What happens in fifteen years time when you have no pension and no benefit system to fall back on? Just go on as many holidays as you can. A UK re-location may help cheer you up too.


You say "'if' that happened". I can assure you it DID happen. When did you last work on a ward? I could give you a hundred stories like mine about our local hospital. One example of today. I had an appointment in out patients on Monday. When I left there was blood on the floor and tumbleweeds of dust rolling around the entrance hall. Today I went back to pick up the prescription I put in on Monday. The bloody is still there!!!! Not different blood. The same blood from Monday and the dust is till rolling around. 

In January of last year my Grandaughter was in with the Norovirus bug. She was 12 months old at the time. She was put in a room with my daughter. The doctor came in, said it was Norovirus and disappeared. My daugther didn't see a single doctor or nurse unless she went looking for one. She asked for a sheet and blanket for herself but was told there were none. She had to get her husband to bring some from home. For 3 days she didn't see a sole unless she asked and even then often nobody came for hours on end. At 1.20 a.m of the fourth day they discharged my Grandaughter. Yes, 1.30 A.M. It was -5 outside and my daughter refused to take an ill (yes, still ill) baby out in those conditions. I think you'll find things have changed since you worked on wards.

Who says I have no skills? What do you know about me? And to say I am too old to have a realistic hope of seeing my years out in Spain is rather presumptious of you.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Chill everyone!! Like I say, Spain isnt the same place it used to be. Its got high unemployment, limited financial welfare and is very much a country in crisis. Thats why the posts seem to be negative. However, only you can know how you feel and whether you can afford to risk it. You have knowledge of the language, which may help, but its your call, I hope whatever you do works out for you. Try it, but please dont burn your bridges. 

So lets not get into a squabble about it - posters ask the questions, we tell it as it is and then folk make their own minds up!!

Jo xxx


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## Bridgette (Mar 19, 2013)

I don't mind people telling it as it is, but I do take exception to people accusing me of not telling the truth, especially when they don't even know me.

I asked for opinions and I wanted the truth. In that there has to be negatives, I understand that, but there's only so many times I can ready that I don't speak Spanish, I'll be a foreigner, Spain has changed, I don't have anything to offer, etc, etc. 

Thank you once again for your help, Jo. I do apreciate it and I am glad (believe it or not) that people have told me 'how it is'.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Bridgette said:


> I don't mind people telling it as it is, but I do take exception to people accusing me of not telling the truth, especially when they don't even know me.
> 
> I asked for opinions and I wanted the truth. In that there has to be negatives, I understand that, but there's only so many times I can ready that I don't speak Spanish, I'll be a foreigner, Spain has changed, I don't have anything to offer, etc, etc.
> 
> Thank you once again for your help, Jo. I do apreciate it and I am glad (believe it or not) that people have told me 'how it is'.


I believe 100% what you have said about the NHS. But it seems that whether or not you will receive quality care is a kind of post-code lottery...it depends on the efficiency of your local NHS Trust. I'm off to the UK this evening, taking my EHIC with me 'just in case' as I have problems that require hospital treatment here the week after next in Spain,which I feel quite confident about, having had experience of the Spanish health care system...well, the Andalucian system. The quality of care I have received at all levels of this service has been excellent. It's quite humbling to reflect on the care and kindness I've been given, seeing that I've lived here for a mere four and a half years. If I do need non-urgent treatment whilst in the UK, I'll get an earlier flight home and go to my local Consultorio as I have more confidence in the system here.

On the other hand...my dil was recently in two NHS hospitals in Surrey and London, had a room of her own, wi-fi and tv, own bathroom and excellent medical care. She has BUPA cover as part of her remuneration package but rarely uses it.

Back on topic: for me, the main deterrent about coming to Spain now would be the dreadful unemployment figures, 26% nationally and rising, 34% in Malaga Province and rising. Of course a few lucky people will find work legally. But the chances are slim and working on the black, apart from being illegal, usually means poor wages and job insecurity. The police do seem to be cracking down on illegal workers too.

I wouldn't buy in Spain. We never intended to anyway, as I explained in a previous post. Renting gives flexibility, a very important consideration in these times, quite apart from whether property prices will fall further or not. We sold our UK properties because the chances of us returning to the UK are negligible and if we had to, we would have income and capital sufficient to rent in a 'nice' area. 
We rented the house we had lived in to a Polish woman, who opened my post, stole a credit card and PIN and got £5000 from cash machines using it. Only UK banks seemingly have this daft practice of sending this stuff out in the post - and I had actually cut up the card and returned it to the bank two years previously!!
Said tenant broke the tenancy agreement and sub-let every room to Poles and other Eastern Europeans...She moved out when the bank -and I - alerted the police. Although she was traced she could not be prosecuted as there were so many Poles in the house that the user of the card could not be identified.

The management company who supplied this tenant admitted that they knew she was 'difficult' and her references dodgy. They put the phone down on me when I told them what I thought of them...

Don't forget that you will have to report income from letting your house to HMRC.

The best thing to do, as has been suggested, is to rent here for a month or so and get a feel for Spain, which really has changed a great deal.


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## bob_bob (Jan 5, 2011)

Bridgette said:


> You say "'if' that happened". I can assure you it DID happen. When did you last work on a ward? I could give you a hundred stories like mine about our local hospital. One example of today. I had an appointment in out patients on Monday. When I left there was blood on the floor and tumbleweeds of dust rolling around the entrance hall. Today I went back to pick up the prescription I put in on Monday. The bloody is still there!!!! Not different blood. The same blood from Monday and the dust is till rolling around.
> 
> In January of last year my Grandaughter was in with the Norovirus bug. She was 12 months old at the time. She was put in a room with my daughter. The doctor came in, said it was Norovirus and disappeared. My daugther didn't see a single doctor or nurse unless she went looking for one. She asked for a sheet and blanket for herself but was told there were none. She had to get her husband to bring some from home. For 3 days she didn't see a sole unless she asked and even then often nobody came for hours on end. At 1.20 a.m of the fourth day they discharged my Grandaughter. Yes, 1.30 A.M. It was -5 outside and my daughter refused to take an ill (yes, still ill) baby out in those conditions. I think you'll find things have changed since you worked on wards.
> 
> Who says I have no skills? What do you know about me? And to say I am too old to have a realistic hope of seeing my years out in Spain is rather presumptious of you.


I retired three years ago as a Ward manager, but wife is Senior Nurse, band 9 for a Welsh Trust and a part time lecturer at two Welsh Universities. Although retired I still do a few shifts a year (health allowing) to keep my registration so I'm up to date although I'll stop when I reach 60.

What skills do you have that will gain you employment over a younger local person? Your funding is limited to say the least. You have no pension in place (?) and Spain will offer you no safety net when you retire in a few years. Your plan is unrealistic. Let your son go out and try it, when he can earn enough to support you then go and join him. IF you experience more problems with your local hospital tell the nurse in charge you wish to make a formal complaint in writing. Your incident report has to be passed on to higher management.

You have a home with equity in the UK so perhaps sell and downsize to another part of the UK and with any remaining funds enjoy some nice trips to Spain. I'm not reliant upon Army and Nursing pensions for income (although I could live on them) and the bulk of my income is as a landlord renting properties. If you ever fancy a move to Wales let me know and I'll see what help I can offer.


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

I have read through this thread with interest as, most people here know, I think I may have mentioned it once or twice) My husband and I are moving to Spain next year.

I will have a NHS Pension however it will be 10 years before we receive state pensions.

Our original plan was to sell here and by something in Spain where we could top up income from B&B rental etc,.

Then we visited Spain

Now we are selling our house here. Buying something a lot smaller, will have income and substantial money in the bank, Why because sitting in the UK thinking about what you will or will not do is one thing, visiting, asking questions on the ground is another, Setting up a B&B / Rental sounds like a solution to an income issue - there are rules and regs, there are taxes, there is advertising, etc etc etc - we had thought about these but the visit and talking to the owners of the places we stayed in was a reality check, and we were not going to be reliant on the income it was a top up, to be able to provide a total income you will have to offer something very special IMHO

Spain is in a FAR worse situation than in the UK, yes I know that even in Tunbridge wells they have food banks at the moment, but Spain is in the Euro and that makes everything at the moment very unstable. Immigrants - well most people leave a homeland and move somewhere else become immigrants - I am sure there is a forum somewhere in Spain, complaining about the UK immigrants.

Is this the time - for us yes, because we want to do it, we are visiting on a reality check, not holidaying, we did not spend one day touristy. We are travelling to a different region in Spain in a few months as you know its a big country.

When we arrive we will rent for 6 months - remember most of our money still in the banks.
We have a contingency plan to return to the UK. 
We are not going to need an "outside" income

Is this the time for you - Well only you know that - I posted a similar question many months ago and after a short time realised that no one on a forum can tell you what is right for you, they can tell you what was good and bad for them, they can tell you how they see things, they can advise on residency tax etc but only you know if you are of the mind and spirit and have the determination to see it through. Because like us if you are selling up in the UK you have to accept the fact that it is probably goodbye to the UK as it is now.

Finally a little rant

As someone who works their butt of in the NHS, offering care and compassion to all my patients I too am ashamed at the undignified way in which some hospitals and staff treat their patients, but please do not cast us all in the same light, i do not recognize the pictures that are painted on here.

There is NO defense - however a target driven, underfunded poorly managed NHS had taken over from a Patient driven, reasonably funded medically managed NHS

Treat the Patients not the Targets is my management speak, and I will continue to fight for that until I leave next year- reason for leaving - I went into nursing to care for people not to crunch numbers
rant over
BFN

To the OP I really wish you well and what you choose to do:fingerscrossed:


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

cambio said:


> Finally a little rant
> 
> As someone who works their butt of in the NHS, offering care and compassion to all my patients I too am ashamed at the undignified way in which some hospitals and staff treat their patients, but please do not cast us all in the same light, i do not recognize the pictures that are painted on here.
> 
> ...


*
YES!!!!!!!*


Jo xxxx


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## bob_bob (Jan 5, 2011)

Good post cambio, the sad fact is that we only hear the NHS horror stories and many never take into account the fact that the vast majority get excellent service from the NHS. 

Sadly in some ways we need 'number crunchers' in the NHS. When I first moved into the NHS from a full time army career I could not understand the waste of resources I came across, remember nurses are not business owners and also remember that there is a bottom to the money pit and thats where the accountants et al come in.

A nurse should be caring regardless of who runs the shop. The biggest mistake Nursing took IMO was going the 'all degree' route which (encouraged by the nonsense some lecturers dish out) fills many a students head with falsehoods, such as how they will naturally progress up the ladder yet leaving out the notion that to go up the rungs you need clinical and other skills.

Back on track, cambio you've done your research and are approaching your transition in a well thought out and logical way, good luck for the future.


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## kezar (Oct 28, 2012)

cambio said:


> I have read through this thread with interest as, most people here know, I think I may have mentioned it once or twice) My husband and I are moving to Spain next year.
> 
> I will have a NHS Pension however it will be 10 years before we receive state pensions.
> 
> ...


Good luck on your retirement plans.

We both work in the nhs and plan to retire early in just over 2 years time.

The pressure in recent times has become almost unbearable, not sleeping, longer and longer days and life is too short.

We are planning to rent in Spain but not sure what to do with our UK property. Don't fancy any hassle which could arise through renting although leaving the house unoccupied for 6 months isn't economical either.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

cambio said:


> I have read through this thread with interest as, most people here know, I think I may have mentioned it once or twice) My husband and I are moving to Spain next year.
> 
> I will have a NHS Pension however it will be 10 years before we receive state pensions.
> 
> ...


Would like to double like this post if possible!


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## itravelexpat (Mar 29, 2013)

Hi Bridgette,

It is such an amazing experience to leave abroad. I highly recommend it and it will be great for your son to get in touch with his roots. However there are not many jobs in Spain at the moment. Saying that if you speak Spanish & English there is a demand as many spanish don't speak English. I know there are jobs in teaching English too. Could be good to apply for few jobs from the UK. 
All the Best.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

cambio said:


> I have read through this thread with interest as, most people here know, I think I may have mentioned it once or twice) My husband and I are moving to Spain next year.
> 
> I will have a NHS Pension however it will be 10 years before we receive state pensions.
> 
> ...


A really great post! Deserves a thousand 'Likes'!


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

itravelexpat said:


> Hi Bridgette,
> 
> It is such an amazing experience to leave abroad. I highly recommend it and it will be great for your son to get in touch with his roots. However there are not many jobs in Spain at the moment. Saying that if you speak Spanish & English there is a demand as many spanish don't speak English. I know there are jobs in teaching English too. Could be good to apply for few jobs from the UK.
> All the Best.


To teach English one needs qualifications, though.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

mrypg9 said:


> To teach English one needs qualifications, though.


Which comes as a great surprise to those who think they will move to Spain and "because I speak English, I can always teach English if I want work" !!!


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

baldilocks said:


> Which comes as a great surprise to those who think they will move to Spain and "because I speak English, I can always teach English if I want work" !!!


'Teaching English' was the profession of choice for every British layabout in Prague, layabouts there for cheap beer and a laid-back lifestyle and also for those unable to do anything else..the ability to speak English - although that was often questionable- was thought to bring with it the ability to teach it.


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## Roxx79 (Sep 22, 2012)

I inquired about teaching English (with a CELTA qualification) in Barcelona and was informed that despite the general dire work situation, there is still a high demand for teachers of English. Anyone got anything to say to confirm or contradict such a statement? 
Wouls having good Spanish, a CELTA and a UK PGCE and 10 yrs teaching experience stand me in relatively good stead?
Thanks


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Roxx79 said:


> I inquired about teaching English (with a CELTA qualification) in Barcelona and was informed that despite the general dire work situation, there is still a high demand for teachers of English. Anyone got anything to say to confirm or contradict such a statement?
> Wouls having good Spanish, a CELTA and a UK PGCE and 10 yrs teaching experience stand me in relatively good stead?
> Thanks


The apparent high demand is going to be tempered by the high response by folk already in Spain and bilingual and familiar (very often in Spain its not so much what you know, but who).

The best thing to do is to try and get contracted work before you arrive - or at least set yourself up with some interviews. But the employment contract is important to enable you to be come a resident, as you'll need proof of income and healthcare and need to register within 90 days of arriving

Jo xxx


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Roxx79 said:


> I inquired about teaching English (with a CELTA qualification) in Barcelona and was informed that despite the general dire work situation, there is still a high demand for teachers of English. Anyone got anything to say to confirm or contradict such a statement?
> Wouls having good Spanish, a CELTA and a UK PGCE and 10 yrs teaching experience stand me in relatively good stead?
> Thanks


yes it would - you'd have an advantage over inexperienced teachers who don't speak Spanish, obviously

it wouldn't guarantee anything though 

if you were young free & single I'd be telling you to jump on a plane to see what you can find - also with the PGCE you should be applying to International schools, as I've said before

in your situation though, wanting to sponsor your partner & children you NEED contracted or at least regular work - you NEED to show a regular income

a contract with an academy or International school is what you NEED - but you already know that


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