# Illegal boat immigrants freed on the Costa as system fails



## Keithtoon (May 7, 2015)

Illegal boat immigrants freed on the Costa as system fails
Spain's official refugee centres are full, forcing charities to take over, and observers say recent high numbers arriving near Malaga suggest routes from Africa have changed

Passports not required?


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## 95995 (May 16, 2010)

Keithtoon said:


> Illegal boat immigrants freed on the Costa as system fails
> Spain's official refugee centres are full, forcing charities to take over, and observers say recent high numbers arriving near Malaga suggest routes from Africa have changed
> 
> Passports not required?


Spain has a legal obligation to process them as asylum seekers. I think the issue here is that Spain is now getting more arrivals than previously anticipated as routes to Europe are changing. Not (yet) the sort of pressure Greece and Italy have been under.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

The reception centre at Algeciras was so overwhelmed by the number of recent arrivals across the Strait of Gibraltar (500 in the past six days) that a judge ordered it to be closed for health reasons. There are only eight centres in the whole of Spain with places for just over 1000 people.

Una juez censura la “absoluta masificación” del CIE de Tarifa | España | EL PAÍS


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## Chopera (Apr 22, 2013)

Simple solution is to send them all to Madrid, given the local council has adorned all it's buildings with "Refugees Welcome" signs...


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

It crossed my mind that refugees could be housed in the many empty properties along the costas - they could be given the job of tidying them up, living in them and starting up local businesses for themselves and for the benefit of the areas and become integrated 

Jo xxx


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## 95995 (May 16, 2010)

jojo said:


> It crossed my mind that refugees could be housed in the many empty properties along the costas - they could be given the job of tidying them up, living in them and starting up local businesses for themselves and for the benefit of the areas and become integrated
> 
> Jo xxx


They are not refugees as such until they have requested asylum and found to be refugees. I believe you will find they are not allowed to work until they are found to be refugees, which is pretty much when they have to start fending for themselves. Whilst their asylum requests are being considered they will have an opportunity to learn Spanish. As for the empty properties - don't they belong to someone or to the banks? Are they even habitable and available for occupation?


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

EverHopeful said:


> They are not refugees as such until they have requested asylum and found to be refugees. I believe you will find they are not allowed to work until they are found to be refugees, which is pretty much when they have to start fending for themselves. Whilst their asylum requests are being considered they will have an opportunity to learn Spanish. As for the empty properties - don't they belong to someone or to the banks? Are they even habitable and available for occupation?


 I'm sure it wouldnt be an easy task - nothing ever is. But on a logical level, you have people who desperately need somewhere to live and you have places sitting empty and becoming derelict. Somehow there is logic in matching the two issues

Jo xxx


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## 95995 (May 16, 2010)

jojo said:


> I'm sure it wouldnt be an easy task - nothing ever is. But on a logical level, you have people who desperately need somewhere to live and you have places sitting empty and becoming derelict. Somehow there is logic in matching the two issues
> 
> Jo xxx


That's as maybe, but these people have been given into the care of NGOs who will assist them with some kind of accommodation where the State cannot currently do so.


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## Rabbitcat (Aug 31, 2014)

Do they have to show sufficient income, health ins and sign on the foreigners register?


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## Townfanjon (Jan 2, 2016)

I can see trouble ahead


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## mono (Jan 22, 2016)

What happens if during assessment in Spain, they are not deemed as refugees but economic immigrants? Hear we have a case of a young man who fled to Britain from Afgahnistan when he was nine, ten years ago as a child refugee. He does not speak his original language, is fully integrated with English girlfriend and supportive future in-law family. He goes to college and never dreamed that as he is not a child anymore, he would receive a letter from the Home Office telling him to leave. Also a family from Australia near me. Came years ago before the minimum income was introduced. Dad made redundant and had lower paid job, so they were given the heave ho. Kid in school with no memory of Australia. Community. papers, MPs, MSPs etc had long campaign during which the family were devastated. They now have permission to stay - for now - but no permanent permission as yet. A number of other working non EUs have fallen foul of rule change post-immigration. Common sense does not prevail


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## 95995 (May 16, 2010)

Rabbitcat said:


> Do they have to show sufficient income, health ins and sign on the foreigners register?


Of course not - they go the request for asylum process.


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## Rabbitcat (Aug 31, 2014)

Excellent that's what I will do too then if they don't accept me on the foreigners register


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## 95995 (May 16, 2010)

Rabbitcat said:


> Excellent that's what I will do too then if they don't accept me on the foreigners register


LOL. Rest assured it won't work.


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## Rabbitcat (Aug 31, 2014)

Well if they give asylum to people coming from violence torn deprived places- I have lived all my life here in Belfast so surely I am a shoe in!!!!


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

mono said:


> What happens if during assessment in Spain, they are not deemed as refugees but economic immigrants? Hear we have a case of a young man who fled to Britain from Afgahnistan when he was nine, ten years ago as a child refugee. He does not speak his original language, is fully integrated with English girlfriend and supportive future in-law family. He goes to college and never dreamed that as he is not a child anymore, he would receive a letter from the Home Office telling him to leave. Also a family from Australia near me. Came years ago before the minimum income was introduced. Dad made redundant and had lower paid job, so they were given the heave ho. Kid in school with no memory of Australia. Community. papers, MPs, MSPs etc had long campaign during which the family were devastated. They now have permission to stay - for now - but no permanent permission as yet. A number of other working non EUs have fallen foul of rule change post-immigration. Common sense does not prevail


There are lots of similar tragic cases. A friend of mine is a lawyer who helps them appeal but nowadays they can only appeal after they have been deported.  The fees are astronomical and there is no legal aid any more. Sadly many people nowadays see this harder approach as a Good Thing. The ugly side of nationalism...

As for Spain, the majority of migrants who arrive on the south coast are from sub-Saharan Africa. Some take years to get here, even crossing the Sahara on foot. 40% are sent home, but many have no documentation ("sin papeles") so can't be deported. If they aren't granted asylum they have to be released from these detention centres after six weeks. I don't know what happens to them, I expect they head for Northern Europe or end up working on the black.


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## Keithtoon (May 7, 2015)

Rabbitcat said:


> Do they have to show sufficient income, health ins and sign on the foreigners register?


My point!
The penny has droppped (or Euro)


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## Keithtoon (May 7, 2015)

Alcalaina said:


> There are lots of similar tragic cases. A friend of mine is a lawyer who helps them appeal but nowadays they can only appeal after they have been deported. The fees are astronomical and there is no legal aid any more. Sadly many people nowadays see this harder approach as a Good Thing. The ugly side of nationalism...
> 
> As for Spain, the majority of migrants who arrive on the south coast are from sub-Saharan Africa. Some take years to get here, even crossing the Sahara on foot. 40% are sent home, but many have no documentation ("sin papeles") so can't be deported. If they aren't granted asylum they have to be released from these detention centres after six weeks. I don't know what happens to them, I expect they head for Northern Europe or end up working on the black.


Looky Looky men?


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## Isobella (Oct 16, 2014)

Keithtoon said:


> Looky Looky men?


Some work in the plastic greenhouses and sometimes live in them. Others make their way north.


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## mono (Jan 22, 2016)

But if they cannot deport them as they have no papers, surely there is a better outcome than sending them elsewhere. For example would they get benefits or food vouchers


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## Isobella (Oct 16, 2014)

mono said:


> But if they cannot deport them as they have no papers, surely there is a better outcome than sending them elsewhere. For example would they get benefits or food vouchers


Yes there are a few refugee centres. Centres de Acogida. They say conditions in some are apalling, there was an article in Sur about the Algerciras one recently.

There was a report on SKY of the dreadful conditions many migrants are living in on some Greek Islands now the snow has fallen. Paltry makeshift tents fron the UN. You can't help but pity them, time decent accommodation was built for them, somewhere back where they came from.


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## Roy C (Sep 29, 2012)

I think they should have mobile detention centres, called ships.


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## 95995 (May 16, 2010)

I for one have never understood why some who are far better off, who have not risked their lives to flee, etc etc take such issue with these people, unless maybe its some kind of jealousy (they're getting something I don't) or a total lack of empathy (which is arguably a significant personality disorder).


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## Roy C (Sep 29, 2012)

EverHopeful said:


> I for one have never understood why some who are far better off, who have not risked their lives to flee, etc etc take such issue with these people, unless maybe its some kind of jealousy (they're getting something I don't) or a total lack of empathy (which is arguably a significant personality disorder).


I think you are generalising there and you certainly don't know everybody's background whether they are just voicing their opinion or are actually refugees or even dare I say it, economic migrants.


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## 95995 (May 16, 2010)

Roy C said:


> I think you are generalising there and you certainly don't know everybody's background whether they are just voicing their opinion or are actually refugees or even dare I say it, economic migrants.


Then those people would be doing the same, would they not?


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

EverHopeful said:


> I for one have never understood why some who are far better off, who have not risked their lives to flee, etc etc take such issue with these people, unless maybe its some kind of jealousy (they're getting something I don't) or a total lack of empathy (which is arguably a significant personality disorder).


A very sweeping statement simplifying a very complex problem.
Opposing open border immigration for anyone who wishes to enter a country does not signify 'jealousy', 'lack of empathy' or a 'significant personality disorder'.
There are instances where setting up safe havens near or even in the refugee's country of origin is a far better course of action, especially if the alternative is paying people smugglers (which only the wealthy can afford) than a perilous trek or sea voyage.
Asylum seekers have every right in law to seek refuge in a safe country. Their applications must of course be processed otherwise the category would have no meaning.
Economic migrants are a different matter. No country in the world offers open borders to them. It's easy to see why. Regardless of any possible moral issues how could Spain with the 26% unemployment rate it experienced recently have coped with open border immigration?
Most Western countries need immigration but it should be controlled. Governments have an obligation to immigrant and indigenous to explain the benefits of immigration. 
It could be said though that taking the most economically active and often the best educated people from poorer countries is in itself immoral. 

It's easy for people with no direct experience to pontificate about immigration which in reality is a more a political, environmental and geophysical issue than an ethical one. Surely we should be addressing the causes that are responsible for migration. No-one should be obliged to leave their home country in search of work for whatever reason.
Foreign and domestic policy, aid policy, all play a role in migration. 
Right-wingers moan about the miserable 0.7% of GNP spent by the UK on foreign aid -one of if not the highest percentages in the EU. Doubtless some of this aid is squandered or misused but this is a management failure, not one of policy.
If the EU, the UN and individual rich countries got together and devised a constructive policy of aid and structural development to the world's poorer countries, tackled poor governance, developed indigenous entrepreneurship there might be no need for a poor Senegalese to leave his native land to be used as cheap labour n some cold grey northern country.
What's needed is a benevolent Structural Adjustment Policy , the reverse of that imposed by the IMF and World Bank in past years.Any immigrant whatever their status is a fellow human and should be treated as such. But the surest way to whip up anti-immigrant and racist sentiment is to tell people who aren't that they are racist , lacking empathy or whatever.


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## 95995 (May 16, 2010)

mrypg9 said:


> A very sweeping statement simplifying a very complex problem.
> Opposing open border immigration for anyone who wishes to enter a country does not signify 'jealousy', 'lack of empathy' or a 'significant personality disorder'.
> There are instances where setting up safe havens near or even in the refugee's country of origin is a far better course of action, especially if the alternative is paying people smugglers (which only the wealthy can afford) than a perilous trek or sea voyage.
> Asylum seekers have every right in law to seek refuge in a safe country. Their applications must of course be processed otherwise the category would have no meaning.
> ...


Well, firstly I do have experience, but have no intention of going into that on a public forum.

Spain does not have 'open borders', however it has entered into agreements with the EU re treatment of those seeking asylum (so often called 'illegal immigrants').

I merely pointed out that I did not understand the attitude(s) of some posters here and outlined some possibilities. I have not said anyone is racist - well, in reality I have not accused anyone of having no empathy either, just raised it essentially as a question.

BTW there is a major refugee crisis - that means it simply is not possible to wait for the wealthier countries to reach agreement.

Of course we should address the causes - but we also have to address this crisis.


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