# Mexico Crime Scene



## jjroth2

There was a sizable article in the Feb 6 edition of USA Today, starting on the front page, stating "Mexico's commerce crawls back from drug war's chaos." It said that the commerce of border cities of Tijuana and Juarez, once at a standstill, has been revived. From 2011 to 2012, it added, cartel violence dropped 21% throughout the country and 32% in the six border states. It further concluded that "the decision of former Mexican President Felipe Calderon to take the fight to the drug cartels contributed to the escalating violence, but is now being viewed as an important part of the solution."


----------



## Hound Dog

jj:

In all due respect, in Mexico (as well as in just about every place on the planet), "the truth" is what those reporting "the truth" want you to believe is the truth. Peña Nieto has not been secretive about his belief that the best way to fight gruesome crime committted primarily by thugs upon thugs, is to ignore it. Calderon pranced about bragging of his victories against the cartels and the result of those "victories" was an escalation in extreme violence. He is now lecturing at Harvard if that tells you something. This stance of ignoring the drug war, which may have a lot of validity, has also been adopted by the single most dangerous city on Earth outside of a war zone; San Pedro Sula, Honduras. 

Don´t lose sleep over this because there is nothing you can do about it.


----------



## sparks

Until it comes very close to home for you. This is a blog post I made earlier today. Problem is local law forces in smaller communities are way underfunded and the officials are either asleep or on the take

..................................................

This is not a another Narco Blog but there is definitely something going on in the Municipio of Cihuatlan. A week ago an ex-Cihuatlan Police was shot and killed, 4-5 days ago a taxi driver was wounded, a Manzanillo paper reports mid-day shoot out between gangs last Saturday .... and last night 2 Cihuatlan motorcycle Police were shot, one died and the other is in hospital.

What brought this closer to home for me was one of my neighbors was found dead in Aguacate along with his girl friend. His death had all the marking of the lessons Narcos give to people who encroach on their territory. He had no regular means of support and about a month ago he came home with a $5000 pickup truck. Everybody wondered but that was his business ... and the business that ended his life.

These things come and go. The Cihuatlan government is calling for Federal help and spending money on more vehicles and weapons. In the mean time it a very sad thing to watch.


----------



## sparks

Another from a few days ago
.............................................

Notario suggests "federal forces" to Cihuatlán

The Notary Public Narciso P. Enriquez Lomeli has recognized the municipal authorities are overwhelmed by crime, and should request the "federal forces" to ensure security and social peace in the town of Cihuatlán.

He said that authorities of Cihuatlán should recognize that crime has increased, and take the experience of other cities and areas of the country to bring the action of "federal forces" as the Army, the Navy or the Federal Police where the criminal acts have significantly decreased and public spaces have been recovered.

The past president Jesús Huerta Aguilar and some councilors gathered at a meeting May 5th, the Notary Public then reflected: "What do we hope to reach? The problem of insecurity in Cihuatlán is serious ... we need a short term solution. "

Enriquez Lomeli offered free support to form a civil partnership engaged support with donations and other actions to improve public safety.


----------



## ehw23

jjroth2 said:


> There was a sizable article in the Feb 6 edition of USA Today, starting on the front page, stating "Mexico's commerce crawls back from drug war's chaos." It said that the commerce of border cities of Tijuana and Juarez, once at a standstill, has been revived. From 2011 to 2012, it added, cartel violence dropped 21% throughout the country and 32% in the six border states. It further concluded that "the decision of former Mexican President Felipe Calderon to take the fight to the drug cartels contributed to the escalating violence, but is now being viewed as an important part of the solution."


To put in short, Nieto is making sure to address the MEDIA issue in a different way than Calderon. He is not going to be stressing the violence and make it look like that it is not as bad as it really is. No matter what is going on in the country, he is going to make sure that Mexico looks cleaner that what it is. 

And statistics wise, I know that here in Nuevo Leon, the statistics have shown that Jan 2013 has already seen a huge increase in terms of violence from Jan 2012 and from Dec 2012. I know NL doesnt represent Mexico but I know its not getting better as it is still a clusterbunk all over. Calderon def had a bone to pick with the car tels but he also played a role in negotiating just as any president does. Nieto is just next in line and seems he will be playing the pawn.

Nieto is ignoring it, covering it up, playing it off... for the image of his presidency. The whole country is upset he won. I believe the NE of the country is by far the most volatile area. I dont see things slowing down much in the next 5 years but I am hopeful someday sooner than later as I do love this country AND the people here...we all deserve better! That goes for USA too... :focus: !


----------



## Isla Verde

The Mexican president's name is Enrique Peña Nieto, so he should be referred to as Peña or Peña Nieto, not just Nieto.


----------



## ehw23

Isla Verde said:


> The Mexican president's name is Enrique Peña Nieto, so he should be referred to as Peña or Peña Nieto, not just Nieto.


:clap2:

_The important thing_ is that I dont think anyone was confused by what I said by making a pardonable error. Sorry, its just that we are all going to speak, talk, listen, and write differently...granted we are all human. If anyone was confused or offended I apologize but I have heard many Mexican citizens say Nieto when referring to the president. Yes, I know nieto means grandchild also so no need to explain.

Again....... :focus: Good stuff!


----------



## edgeee

I missed what is enough, so i hope this isn't too much.
I've been out of the loop for a week or so, just came home today from hospital.
I have this overwhelming urge to thank you all for expressing your ideas and feelings regarding the whole situation.
(Sure it's ugly and scary, but that's why it matters so much.)
You might not expect that your discussion bleeds new life into me, but you'd be wrong.

Different slants will always stick some people the wrong way, but when you wake up in a world that is missing several days, replaced by extreme pain, even the sourest note has a certain ring to it.
I would call it the personal path we are all following to find answers, which does NOT mean we always will, but i'm just grateful for the chance that we all get to try.

My new attitude is just to be a bit more grateful and a lot less scornful.
So even if it hurts, be honest and open, for you never know when that door will slam shut.


----------



## ehw23

edgeee said:


> I missed what is enough, so i hope this isn't too much.
> I've been out of the loop for a week or so, just came home today from hospital.
> I have this overwhelming urge to thank you all for expressing your ideas and feelings regarding the whole situation.
> (Sure it's ugly and scary, but that's why it matters so much.)
> You might not expect that your discussion bleeds new life into me, but you'd be wrong.
> 
> Different slants will always stick some people the wrong way, but when you wake up in a world that is missing several days, replaced by extreme pain, even the sourest note has a certain ring to it.
> I would call it the personal path we are all following to find answers, which does NOT mean we always will, but i'm just grateful for the chance that we all get to try.
> 
> My new attitude is just to be a bit more grateful and a lot less scornful.
> So even if it hurts, be honest and open, for you never know when that door will slam shut.


Well said. Life is too unpredictable and awesome to let our emotions get the best of us. Living here in Mexico is a blessing not many people get to experience. 

Until then, Viva Mexico !!! lane:


----------



## Phoghat

I live in Zacatecas, Zacatecas, a small city in N. Central Mexico. There are NO drugs here, and little violence of any kind, and that's because the drug cartels are concentrated further North, and along the border.
The reason is simple. The Cartels follow the money and the money (and the majority of buyers/users ) is in the USA.
If there are any drugs here, it's a little homegrown weed, and that is becoming both legal and tolerated in many areas of the US.


----------



## trpt2345

Phoghat said:


> I live in Zacatecas, Zacatecas, a small city in N. Central Mexico. There are NO drugs here, and little violence of any kind, and that's because the drug cartels are concentrated further North, and along the border.
> The reason is simple. The Cartels follow the money and the money (and the majority of buyers/users ) is in the USA.
> If there are any drugs here, it's a little homegrown weed, and that is becoming both legal and tolerated in many areas of the US.


In my neighborhood in Morelia marijuana grows wild all over the place. And it is way safer than my old neighborhood in Chicago. Fact is if you are not involved in drugs the so called war doesn't affect you much, just like in the US.


----------



## FHBOY

HIJACK!

It would seem, just by the natural order of things, that the world in general, and now parts of the USA and Mexico in particular have come to grips with the nature of use of marijuana. For a long time those advocating the legalization of grass have been put off a "entrance level druggies" but now we see that the treasure used to fight grass in both the USA and Mexico is a waste of money.

Yes, grass grows wild here in some parts and as one poster put it, the authorities ignore the use of it. I say, "Good", it is about time that it is this way. The USA condones and taxes alcohol which is far more dangerous and it should be the same way with grass. Yes, we do know people here in Lakeside that smoke, and like much else here, no one cares...we are much more wary of the drunks.

When both countries begin to re-organize their efforts to battle the real scourges to health and safety and stay away from, or just regulate marijuana, as they do alcohol, then it is possible that the effort to suppress the trade, from the suppliers to the buyers can be re-targeted to do the most good.

:ranger: Me? I'm too old to enjoy weed as I did, I'd probably just fall asleep, bummer. But even if I did, I would want to waste police and law enforcement resources on busting down my door because of it.

:focus:


----------



## Longford

Phoghat said:


> I live in Zacatecas, Zacatecas, a small city in N. Central Mexico. There are NO drugs here, and little violence of any kind, and that's because the drug cartels are concentrated further North, and along the border.
> The reason is simple. The Cartels follow the money and the money (and the majority of buyers/users ) is in the USA. If there are any drugs here, it's a little homegrown weed, and that is becoming both legal and tolerated in many areas of the US.


Fantasy. Pure fantasy. Well, mostly. 

Certainly, there are drugs in Zacatecas, and violence. Why did the military send a batallion of heavily armed special forces to establish a base an hour ourside the city. And why is there a huge military checkpoint on the highway coinnecting Aguascalientes with Zacatecas? Visit Zacatecas. Spend some time there. Speak to people who live there. Inform youself.


----------



## Guategringo

Longford said:


> Fantasy. Pure fantasy. Well, mostly.
> 
> Certainly, there are drugs in Zacatecas, and violence. Why did the military send a batallion of heavily armed special forces to establish a base an hour ourside the city. And why is there a huge military checkpoint on the highway coinnecting Aguascalientes with Zacatecas? Visit Zacatecas. Spend some time there. Speak to people who live there. Inform youself.


Longford doesn't the Phoghat say in his post that he lives in Zacatecas? I would think he would know more about whether drugs or violence were there than you living in Chicago and whereever else you live. Also, checkpoints might be their way of keeping drugs from reaching Zacatecas?


----------



## ehw23

Guategringo said:


> Longford doesn't the Phoghat say in his post that he lives in Zacatecas? I would think he would know more about whether drugs or violence were there than you living in Chicago and whereever else you live. Also, checkpoints might be their way of keeping drugs from reaching Zacatecas?


:ranger:


Zacatecas, Zacatecas is en route to major northern hubs-plazas in Mexico...so before I even state the facts regarding drug activity in the area of Zacatecas, I will go ahead and make the assumption that it exists! Checkpoints mean nothing..the officials making the checkpoints usually are in cohoots with the cartels passing them by or looking out for rival cartels. 

Now, I see from time to time that Zacatecas is under fire in the news and all over the internet...just type in Zacatecas and narco into google and it will pull up narco related killings within the past week! Besides that, Zacatecas is under fire right now because they are fighting for drug routes. I would say Zacatecas is no border town but it is definitely ridden with drug activity. 


You can be a person living in a city, oblivious to your surroundings, and never know that you have narcos in the area or narcos as your neighbors. .. so many factors that factor into the equation.


----------



## Longford

Guategringo said:


> Longford doesn't the Phoghat say in his post that he lives in Zacatecas? I would think he would know more about whether drugs or violence were there than you living in Chicago and whereever else you live. Also, checkpoints might be their way of keeping drugs from reaching Zacatecas?


Where people say they live and are posting from, is determined by what someone puts in their profile. We have no way of knowing who is where ... unless we're a moderator who may have access to an ISP address which may reveal some additional information. That's beside the point, however. Just because someone lives in a community doesn't mean they know what's happening there ... or if they do will accurately describe it. Many expats don't communicate well in Spanish, either, or they don't have access to local/regional news sources. But it's very clear, to anyone whose been there or who informs themself ... that there has been and continues to be "issues" at Zacatecas. Accept that or not, that's your choice.


----------



## Movinon4*

Phoghat said:


> I live in Zacatecas, Zacatecas, a small city in N. Central Mexico. There are NO drugs here, and little violence of any kind, and that's because the drug cartels are concentrated further North, and along the border.
> The reason is simple. The Cartels follow the money and the money (and the majority of buyers/users ) is in the USA.
> If there are any drugs here, it's a little homegrown weed, and that is becoming both legal and tolerated in many areas of the US.


Which leaves me an opening to say the obvious. The US War on Drugs is dangerous for its neighbors. Slowly but surely, we are seeing legalization forces in the US making headway. This will be slow progress because there is military money involved in this home grown war; we american's love our military spending! Legalization of marijuana alone will have a great deflating effect on the cartels profits. It becomes harder and harder for the US government to continue this "war" when they public pass up prosecutions against HCSB who knowingly made billions laundering drug cartel money. Even Americas have a hard time swallowing that hypocrisy.


----------



## Isla Verde

Movinon4* said:


> Which leaves me an opening to say the obvious. The US War on Drugs is dangerous for its neighbors. Slowly but surely, we are seeing legalization forces in the US making headway. This will be slow progress because there is military money involved in this home grown war; we american's love our military spending! . . .


Speak for yourself, please, not me!


----------



## pappabee

OK OK, here I go again. The US tried to control morality with The Volstead Act. This was pushed by the WCTU and many churches. It proved a worst sin than the booze its self. 

"Big Brother" has been trying to legislate our morality for years and has failed in almost all cases. Don't legalize Weed, de-criminalize it. The advantage of this is that the government does not have to pass laws that say it’s OK to have, use, sell or grow weed it just will not carry any criminal penalties. 

Think of all the money that the US would save if it didn’t have to police the distribution of MJ? 

The “Moral Majority” is a group in name only. They are not moral nor are they anywhere close to being a majority. Hey US you are talking about having to reduce spending by what? $ 85 Billion. Here’s a way to do it. AND it will not take an act of Congress, just a signature on some paper. 

Thank G-d that I’m down here and know that the government doesn’t work rather than being in the US where it puts on a show of working but fails miserably. 

OK I’ll get off my soapbox for a while. I’m getting better with the voice recognition thing and it’s getting easier to communicate my opinions.


----------



## mickisue1

Isla Verde said:


> Speak for yourself, please, not me!


Unfortunately, even those members of Congress who don't love spending excess amounts on the military seem forced to pretend they do.


----------



## mickisue1

...and it's good to hear from pappabee!


----------



## conklinwh

Movinon4* said:


> Which leaves me an opening to say the obvious. The US War on Drugs is dangerous for its neighbors. Slowly but surely, we are seeing legalization forces in the US making headway. This will be slow progress because there is military money involved in this home grown war; we american's love our military spending! Legalization of marijuana alone will have a great deflating effect on the cartels profits. It becomes harder and harder for the US government to continue this "war" when they public pass up prosecutions against HCSB who knowingly made billions laundering drug cartel money. Even Americas have a hard time swallowing that hypocrisy.


I'm not a doctor and don't have any statistics on marijuana effects, but has seemed to me for quite awhile that the right answer is to treat marijuana similar to alcohol.
That certainly would drive a lot of govt. revenue and decrease cartel involvement but I can't decide whether that would be good or bad for Mexico in the shorter her.
Higher ups will just shift markets but there could be a big impact on low level members. 
I don't see them becoming grocery store baggers so expect other crime to rise and put a real strain on local police departments.


----------



## Longford

My impression is that marijuana is the of lesser concern as compared to heroin, cocaine and methamphetamines ... coming from/through Mexico. My observation of many marijuana users I've known in my life in the USA is .. that they're drug addicts. They try to candy-coat their use of marijuana, but they've all been addicted to the product.


----------



## conklinwh

Longford said:


> My impression is that marijuana is the of lesser concern as compared to heroin, cocaine and methamphetamines ... coming from/through Mexico. My observation of many marijuana users I've known in my life in the USA is .. that they're drug addicts. They try to candy-coat their use of marijuana, but they've all been addicted to the product.


I've been surprised since we moved to Mexico how many social "smokers" there are.
Based on this admittedly small sample where marijuana basically used like a drink, I'm not sure whether addiction would be more or less a problem than alcoholism.


----------



## pappabee

Most people do not become addicted to MJ, they become addicted to the feeling. Most tests that I’ve read say that weed is as addictive as smoking. Now we all know how bad tobacco is but it’s still legal to buy, sell, own and use. 

Again, the “powers that be” (and I’m really talking about the smaller, but much louder morality gang and the lobbyist that work for groups who need the US to spend all that money on their employers product –guns, etc.) don't want a change. It makes them look good and keep working. 

If the government really wants to “protect” us then make the speed limit 25MPH, ban all privately own weapons-with NO exceptions, ban all forms of tobacco and stop the consumption of alcohol without a prescription. 

Now, that would really make everyone safer. Does anyone else want to try for Walden Pond?


----------



## conklinwh

pappabee said:


> Most people do not become addicted to MJ, they become addicted to the feeling. Most tests that I’ve read say that weed is as addictive as smoking. Now we all know how bad tobacco is but it’s still legal to buy, sell, own and use.
> 
> Again, the “powers that be” (and I’m really talking about the smaller, but much louder morality gang and the lobbyist that work for groups who need the US to spend all that money on their employers product –guns, etc.) don't want a change. It makes them look good and keep working.
> 
> If the government really wants to “protect” us then make the speed limit 25MPH, ban all privately own weapons-with NO exceptions, ban all forms of tobacco and stop the consumption of alcohol without a prescription.
> 
> Now, that would really make everyone safer. Does anyone else want to try for Walden Pond?


Glad that your tongue firmly in cheek. You made me nervous for a 2nd with the ultimate nanny state(not that we aren't getting closer).

Not to beat a dead horse, but the weed smokers that I know do not have the pattern of "need" that cigarette smokers have so not sure of relative addiction levels.


----------



## TundraGreen

conklinwh said:


> Glad that your tongue firmly in cheek. You made me nervous for a 2nd with the ultimate nanny state(not that we aren't getting closer).
> 
> Not to beat a dead horse, but the weed smokers that I know do not have the pattern of "need" that cigarette smokers have so not sure of relative addiction levels.


I found a few web sites that rated drugs by their addictive properties.

From A Surprising Look at the Most Addictive Drugs in the World | Michael's House
Percentage of users that become addicted:
Nicotine 30%
Caffeine 30%
Heroin 25%
Cocaine (no % listed)
Alcohol 15%

Another site ranked them differently.
From The 10 Hardest Drugs to Kick | The Fix
Ranked on a scale with a maximum of 3: 
Heroin 2.89
Crack Cocaine 2.82
Nicotine 2.82
Methadone 2.68
Crystal Meth 2.24
Alcohol 2.13
Cocaine 2.13
Amphetamines 1.95
Benzodiazepines (Valium, Xanax, etc) 1.89
GHB 1.71


----------



## conklinwh

TundraGreen said:


> I found a few web sites that rated drugs by their addictive properties.
> 
> From A Surprising Look at the Most Addictive Drugs in the World | Michael's House
> Percentage of users that become addicted:
> Nicotine 30%
> Caffeine 30%
> Heroin 25%
> Cocaine (no % listed)
> Alcohol 15%
> 
> Another site ranked them differently.
> From The 10 Hardest Drugs to Kick | The Fix
> Ranked on a scale with a maximum of 3:
> Heroin 2.89
> Crack Cocaine 2.82
> Nicotine 2.82
> Methadone 2.68
> Crystal Meth 2.24
> Alcohol 2.13
> Cocaine 2.13
> Amphetamines 1.95
> Benzodiazepines (Valium, Xanax, etc) 1.89
> GHB 1.71


Really interesting, I sort of intuitively put MJ equal or less than alcohol and definitely below nicotine but no data.
This pretty much says that MJ should probably be handled as alcohol.


----------



## pappabee

Thank you, Thank you, Thank you||||||||||||||||||||||||||

What a glorious waste of money---but it does enable people to keep their jobs.


----------



## conklinwh

conklinwh said:


> Really interesting, I sort of intuitively put MJ equal or less than alcohol and definitely below nicotine but no data.
> This pretty much says that MJ should probably be handled as alcohol.


Just read article that said 52% of Americans now favor legalization of marijuana.


----------



## pappabee

We all know the question and the answer but the problem is that no one will do anything about it. 

I think we've had enough of this. Let's go to another topic. Like Who's going to win the World Series??? You know, something real important.:clap2:


----------



## Isla Verde

pappabee said:


> We all know the question and the answer but the problem is that no one will do anything about it.
> 
> I think we've had enough of this. Let's go to another topic. Like Who's going to win the World Series??? You know, something real important.:clap2:


I agree! Right now I'm watching the Phillies finally ahead in a game against Atlanta.


----------



## Longford

Some comments about crime in Mexico, without starting a separate discussion:

1. Another Canadian has gone missing, this time in Jalisco. What is it with Canadians and Mexico? Seemingly ... more Mexicans are falling drunk from balconies or being beaten to death, or are kidnapped ... or go missing. This youngish man, the latest, may have been involved in narcotics sales back in BC, however.

2. Another American has been kidnapped along the USA/Mexico border. A former U.S. Marine who crossed the border into Mexico to visit family. I think most of these sorts of kidnappings don't see the light of day in the press. Estimates I've seen suggest about 30,000 kidnappings in Mexico last year. That number doesn't count "express kidnappings" where the person is held for hours or a few days until money is paid for his/her release.

3. Narco terrorists in Michoacan are burning-down businesses that don't pay protection money, they're kidnapping people in greater numbers ... and the President has finally acted by ordering a major military offensive dispatching large numbers of the armed forces into the state of Michoacan to restore law and order (  ). Primarily, it's the _tierra caliente_ region of the state. Large parts of Michoacan are seem no longer under the control of the government, but, rather, are ruled by the narco terrorists. It's not the only part of the country where the government has lost control.

And the beat goes on.


----------



## AlanMexicali

Longford said:


> Some comments about crime in Mexico, without starting a separate discussion:
> 
> 1. Another Canadian has gone missing, this time in Jalisco. What is it with Canadians and Mexico? Seemingly ... more Mexicans are falling drunk from balconies or being beaten to death, or are kidnapped ... or go missing. This youngish man, the latest, may have been involved in narcotics sales back in BC, however.
> 
> 2. Another American has been kidnapped along the USA/Mexico border. A former U.S. Marine who crossed the border into Mexico to visit family. I think most of these sorts of kidnappings don't see the light of day in the press. Estimates I've seen suggest about 30,000 kidnappings in Mexico last year. That number doesn't count "express kidnappings" where the person is held for hours or a few days until money is paid for his/her release.
> 
> 3. Narco terrorists in Michoacan are burning-down businesses that don't pay protection money, they're kidnapping people in greater numbers ... and the President has finally acted by ordering a major military offensive dispatching large numbers of the armed forces into the state of Michoacan to restore law and order (  ). Primarily, it's the _tierra caliente_ region of the state. Large parts of Michoacan are seem no longer under the control of the government, but, rather, are ruled by the narco terrorists. It's not the only part of the country where the government has lost control.
> 
> And the beat goes on.


I think you meant more Canadians are falling drunk from balconies in Riviera Maya last time I read the Canadian Foreign Affairs website statistics on deaths in Mexico, or being pushed. Alan


----------



## Longford

To add to Canada's woes, Canadian expats in Mexico ... a former Mountie, a woman, was found stabbed to death in Playa del Carmen yesterday.


----------



## ehw23

Longford said:


> Some comments about crime in Mexico, without starting a separate discussion:
> 
> 1. Another Canadian has gone missing, this time in Jalisco. What is it with Canadians and Mexico? Seemingly ... more Mexicans are falling drunk from balconies or being beaten to death, or are kidnapped ... or go missing. This youngish man, the latest, may have been involved in narcotics sales back in BC, however.
> 
> 2. Another American has been kidnapped along the USA/Mexico border. A former U.S. Marine who crossed the border into Mexico to visit family. I think most of these sorts of kidnappings don't see the light of day in the press. Estimates I've seen suggest about 30,000 kidnappings in Mexico last year. That number doesn't count "express kidnappings" where the person is held for hours or a few days until money is paid for his/her release.
> 
> 3. Narco terrorists in Michoacan are burning-down businesses that don't pay protection money, they're kidnapping people in greater numbers ... and the President has finally acted by ordering a major military offensive dispatching large numbers of the armed forces into the state of Michoacan to restore law and order (  ). Primarily, it's the _tierra caliente_ region of the state. Large parts of Michoacan are seem no longer under the control of the government, but, rather, are ruled by the narco terrorists. It's not the only part of the country where the government has lost control.
> 
> And the beat goes on.


if not too much trouble...could you send me the link to the source of bullet #2 in the post above? 

thanks!


----------



## Longford

ehw23 said:


> if not too much trouble...could you send me the link to the source of bullet #2 in the post above?
> 
> thanks!


Your wish ... is my command! 


http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/marine-kidnappedin-mexico-family-article-1.1350554


----------



## ehw23

Longford said:


> Your wish ... is my command!
> 
> 
> Former Marine from Texas kidnapped by armed men in Mexico, family says - NY Daily News


what about the link to the Marine?


----------



## Hound Dog

I think I, as an Alabama boy who was born and raised on the Gulf Coast, have figured out this Canadians ejecting themselves from Mexican balconies problem as we experienced a bit of this in Gulf Shores, Alabama when that beach town became overrun with Canadian snowbirds and the like a number of years ago. It appears that, after a lifetime of living in long-johns in sub-zero temperatiures, some of our northern brethren never developed proper knee flexibility and to add to the complexity of the problem, switched from something called Molson Golden Ale to tequila upon arriving in Mexico or rum upon arriving in Alabama and, having never seen half-naked women gallivanting about on a beach in the warm sunshine, took to standing on balconies overlooking the beaches dressed in burmuda shorts, drinking tequila and whistling at local chicks while leaning way too far out over the beach without realizing that their knees were suddenly far more feixible than they had ever experienced in the past and, thus often ejecting themrselves onto the beaches unintentionally thinking the white sand was snow thus providing a nice cusion to break the fall . They also failed to realize that they were wearing no knee socks to grab their ankles at the last minute and prevent a fall. Or was that snow shoes?


----------



## AlanMexicali

Hound Dog said:


> I think I, as an Alabama boy who was born and raised on the Gulf Coast, have figured out this Canadians ejecting themselves from Mexican balconies problem as we experienced a bit of this in Gulf Shores, Alabama when that beach town became overrun with Canadian snowbirds and the like a number of years ago. It appears that, after a lifetime of living in long-johns in sub-zero temperatiures, some of our northern brethren never developed proper knee flexibility and to add to the complexity of the problem, switched from something called Molson Golden Ale to tequila upon arriving in Mexico or rum upon arriving in Alabama and, having never seen half-naked women gallivanting about on a beach in the warm sunshine, took to standing on balconies overlooking the beaches dressed in burmuda shorts, drinking tequila and whistling at local chicks while leaning way too far out over the beach without realizing that their knees were suddenly far more feixible than they had ever experienced in the past and, thus often ejecting themrselves onto the beaches unintentionally thinking the white sand was snow thus providing a nice cusion to break the fall . They also failed to realize that they were wearing no knee socks to grab their ankles at the last minute and prevent a fall. Or was that snow shoes?




It might also be the flip flops they buy on the first day arriving for $2.00 and are not used to them and slid right out after being used to thick rubber soled sturdy boots in winter.

In Trinidad they are called go forwards.

The rum and tequila, definitely a factor.


----------



## Longford

ehw23 said:


> what about the link to the Marine?


What about it? :attention:


----------



## ehw23

Longford said:


> What about it? :attention:


do you have the link to that article? you had send me the one regarding the canadian.

thanks!



edit: NEVERMIND...i had clicked on the link you gave me and came up with a different article...weird..

thanks!


----------



## Hound Dog

I knoiw I have written about this in the past on some forum or another but this situation with the new PRI Peña administration positing that if crime is simply ignored for the most part it will either go away or seem to have gone away and the "new" PRI can concentrate on imbellishing Mexico´s recently tarnished image and encouraging economic development.

In 1984 the French director Claude Zidi directed one of the greatest movies ever released on this subject. _ Les Ripoux (The Rotten Cops) _released in the U.S. as _My New Partner _starred the great Philippe Noiret and was a satirical take on corrupt cops in Paris.

In the movie, Noiret, who plays a thoroughly corrupt cop taking down payments from local sleazebags, mostly pimps, petty theives and drug dealers, in his own personal protetection scheme when he is assigned a new partner who is a rookie just out of the police academy and on his first street assignment. 

On his very first day on the beat, the new rookie returns to the precinct station with with a purse snatcher and his female victim in tow full of pride that on his first day on the beat he had thwarted a crime and revovered the victim´s purse after tackling the purse snatcher. 

Noiret´s character, the rookie´s new partner but the senior partner, reacts by interceding and asking the victim if indeed that is her purse. When she responds that it is, Noiret responds, "Well, you are in luck, madame. Here you lost your purse and this kindly gentleman came upon it and has just returned it to the station here out of a sense of kindness and civic duty. Here is your purse with all of its contents intact. It is a shame that such acts of civic responsibility are not more common on the streets of Paris. Thank you sir for being such a good citizen Now, you may both go and have a pleasant day."

Noiret then takes his new junior partner aside and, in private, admonishes him; " Idiot! Don´t you know that we have a new police commiissioner in this arrondissement who has proclaimed the excessive crimnal activity here to be the result of inept administration by the prior commissioner and promised to lower the crime rate by at least 50% immediately? Here you are on your fisrt day on the job trying to humiliate the commissioner with this awkward and pointless arrest." 

In Mexico or Paris, nothing is ever as it seems.


----------



## trpt2345

I live in Morelia. Some friends of mine from Chicago came for a conference in Guadalajara in February. Guadalajara is roughly the same size as Chicago where there were over 500 murders last year. The Guadalajara chief of police came to talk to this particular conference about crime and safety, etc. In 2012 Guadalajara had about fifty murders, including those attributed to the drug cartels. Mexico is in no way as dangerous as the US. Orlando Florida has a way higher crime rate than DF. The whole "drug war crime wave" in Mexico is mostly myth. If you aren't in the drug business in Mexico you are way safer than in the US. There hasn't been a murder in my neighborhood in more than ten years, whereas people were getting blown away all the time in Chicago in my area which was a fairly safe one.


----------



## conorkilleen

trpt2345 said:


> The whole "drug war crime wave" in Mexico is mostly myth. If you aren't in the drug business in Mexico you are way safer than in the US.


Victoria just came out of my nose......


----------



## conorkilleen

conklinwh said:


> I'm not a doctor and don't have any statistics on marijuana effects, but has seemed to me for quite awhile that the right answer is to treat marijuana similar to alcohol.
> That certainly would drive a lot of govt. revenue and decrease cartel involvement but I can't decide whether that would be good or bad for Mexico in the shorter her.
> Higher ups will just shift markets but there could be a big impact on low level members.
> I don't see them becoming grocery store baggers so expect other crime to rise and put a real strain on local police departments.


I share the same belief that legalizing may create more crime, however I like to give the benefit of the doubt sometimes and hope that the dope slingers, at least at a low level, will keep the entrepreneurial spirit going and legitimize their own business making an honest peso and be able to go home at night without fear of rival gangs. I know the money from illegal drug slinging is appealing, but so is living till you're 30. If pot is legalized, it will need to be under the guise of a whole cultural revolution.


----------



## Longford

trpt2345 said:


> The whole "drug war crime wave" in Mexico is mostly myth.


It seems to me this is an absurd comment, ignorant of the facts of the war and the related terrorist activities.


----------



## Marishka

trpt2345 said:


> I live in Morelia. Some friends of mine from Chicago came for a conference in Guadalajara in February. Guadalajara is roughly the same size as Chicago where there were over 500 murders last year. The Guadalajara chief of police came to talk to this particular conference about crime and safety, etc. In 2012 Guadalajara had about fifty murders, including those attributed to the drug cartels.


Either the Guadalajara police chief misspoke or your friends misunderstood, because according to this report, La violencia en los municipios de México 2012, there were 197 murders in Guadalajara in 2012 (not counting the other cities that make up the Guadalajara Metropolitan area).

Guadalajara's 2012 homicide rate at 13.56 per 100,000 inhabitants was lower than Chicago's at 18.7, but I noticed in that report that Tlaquepaque, just to the southeast of the city center of Guadalajara, had 113 murders in 2012, giving it a homicide rate of 18.5--almost identical to that of Chicago. I also noticed that of the Mexican cities listed in that report, 58 of them had higher homicide rates than Chicago. In fact, 24 Mexican cities had homicides rates that were over twice as high as Chicago's. A few examples:

Acapulco: 142.88
Cuernavaca: 72.66
Monterey: 48.49
Zacatecas: 41.24



trpt2345 said:


> Mexico is in no way as dangerous as the US.


Homicide Rates by Country

Mexico: 23.7
U.S.: 4.8



trpt2345 said:


> There hasn't been a murder in my neighborhood in more than ten years, whereas people were getting blown away all the time in Chicago in my area which was a fairly safe one.


The truth is that one can find very safe places to live in Mexico and very safe places to live in the U.S. I'm glad you live in a safe neighborhood in Morelia, since Morelia has a murder rate of 20.21, higher than Chicago's murder rate of 18.7!


----------



## cscscs007

Looks like another American making the headlines for a little weed (6 kilos) on a bus from Sonora to Hermosillo. Hubby tried to bribe the judge for a measly $5,000. She may be innocent but it sure didn't look too smart with the bribe, as now it is getting some national attention. 

People need to pay attention to their surroundings...........and whats under your bus seat. I have to admit the times I ride the bus I never thought to look there, but that big a package I hope I would have noticed and asked whose it was before I took the seat. I sure hope this lady is innocent, because it would surely be a tough lesson to learn for a simple oversight.


----------



## citlali

The drug was probably planted by the police who "found" it when they inspected the bus. It is not unusual for the police to plant drugs on unsuspected victims who look right for the picking. 
I would bet the drug was not there when the woman sat down..Just another way to extort money from people. You can be victim of that kind of scam anywhere in this country. 
A Mexican friend of mine is going to lose his car to scammers who were in with the transito and some crooked lawyers. No one is safe from these guys, do not think you are smarter, just luckier.
A teacher friend of mine in San Cristobal warned me about not walking on the andador late at night as the police had been searching people for drugs and of course finding it all over the place and demanding money to overlook the situation. He was searched , they did not find anything on him but lifted his wallet. My husband got his wallet lifted by cops who got him out of our car after an accident in a remote area. This happens a lot the transitos,municipal cops, state cops and federales cannot be trusted period.

Anyone believing there was 50 murder last year in Guadalajara obviously does not watch the news or read them. Maybe in mero centro but between Zapopan, Tonala and Tlaquepaque they probably had that much to start with. Again a case of playing with statistics .
Crime here is less random and more personal than in the states which makes people feel that if they are not involved they ae safer but it is all an illusion. 
I have never lived in any place anywhere where I have known the victims and or their family like I do here.
I also have never lived in a place where I found a tibia walking down the beach , I bet that person was never reported either.
Many people vanish here as well and are never found ,
Comparing crime rates is absurd, in the US you have known violent areas where the middle class does not venture so as a middle class white person you are pretty safe except for the occasional nuts. Here the areas are much more mixed and crime can happen any place anywhere.
Some posters from other forums have left Morelia because they did not feel safe there and one poster thinks it is the safest place on earth, it is all a question of perception but if you think you are safe from crime in Michoacan amongst all places, you are dreaming.


----------



## citlali

"People need to pay attention to their surroundings...........and whats under your bus seat. I have to admit the times I ride the bus I never thought to look there, but that big a package I hope I would have noticed and asked whose it was before I took the seat. I sure hope this lady is innocent, because it would surely be a tough lesson to learn for a simple oversight. "

When is the last time you put anything under your seat??? On a bus people put their packages under the seat in front of them not under their seat so either she would have seen the package or if it was under her seat it belonged to the guy behind her. It is all BS:..
She was picked because the kids were there and would be scared and the husband could collect the money to get his wife out...


----------



## Longford

cscscs007 said:


> Hubby tried to bribe the judge for a measly $5,000. She may be innocent but it sure didn't look too smart with the bribe, as now it is getting some national attention.


I don't have a link to it, but I read a report on this yesterday, from NBC, in which it was claimed that the local prosecutor solicited a bribe and when the husband returned with the money he found his wife had been relocated to a jail in a different city. Others somehow witnessed the attempt to hand the money to the prosecutor after which he claimed he never asked for it. We don't really know what happened here, but given the several articles I've read about the incident, and attempting to read 'between the lines' ... I've made a leap to the assumption the couple is innocent of the charge. There was supposed to have been a hearing before a judge yesterday but I haven't seen any press reports providing information regarding the outcome.


----------



## Guategringo

Longford said:


> I don't have a link to it, but I read a report on this yesterday, from NBC, in which it was claimed that the local prosecutor solicited a bribe and when the husband returned with the money he found his wife had been relocated to a jail in a different city. Others somehow witnessed the attempt to hand the money to the prosecutor after which he claimed he never asked for it. We don't really know what happened here, but given the several articles I've read about the incident, and attempting to read 'between the lines' ... I've made a leap to the assumption the couple is innocent of the charge. There was supposed to have been a hearing before a judge yesterday but I haven't seen any press reports providing information regarding the outcome.


Here is an article that says regardless of innocence or guilt he would have to pay US$5,000.... I agree with you Longford, these are trumped up charges in my opinon.

Arizona mom doesn't belong in Mexican jail, daughter says - CNN.com


----------



## cscscs007

Mexico will want to appear tough on drugs, and at the same time look for a way out of this situation. I would guess they would allow her family to post bail and release her. Then some judge at a later date would rule that the case be dismissed based on a technicality.


----------



## TundraGreen

Guategringo said:


> Here is an article that says regardless of innocence or guilt he would have to pay US$5,000.... I agree with you Longford, these are trumped up charges in my opinon.
> 
> Arizona mom doesn't belong in Mexican jail, daughter says - CNN.com


I have no idea what really happened here. But it smells fishy to me. 

I have taken a Mexican bus to the border many times, sometimes to Tijuana and sometimes to Ciudad Juarez. In the process I have probably gone through two dozen military/police stops. Sometimes they just walk through the bus. Sometimes everyone gets off while they check a few bags. And sometimes, they go through and open every bag, take dogs through the bus, crawl under it. Once, at an agricultural checkpoint, they found an apple in my carry-on bag, and told me to eat it.

In all of these stops, I have never seen any evidence of any suspicious behavior; they have been consistently polite and professional. And there are always numerous soldiers/police involved, so any attempt to plant evidence would require the collusion of a lot of people.

I am not making any judgement about the particular case discussed here, just pointing out that jumping to a conclusion on either side is iffy.


----------



## ehw23

The US issues travel warnings to mexico for a reason. For those who think its safe...just take the interstateto reynosa, matamoros, nuevo laredo during the night time and tel me how safe it is for anyone...
Corruption...we are never safe from. Especially on mexicos level of corruption. 

I am curious as to how long she will be locked up for?
How would you avoid disclaiming a bag that was put under your seat? No way out of it.


----------



## AlanMexicali

TundraGreen said:


> I have no idea what really happened here. But it smells fishy to me.
> 
> I have taken a Mexican bus to the border many times, sometimes to Tijuana and sometimes to Ciudad Juarez. In the process I have probably gone through two dozen military/police stops. Sometimes they just walk through the bus. Sometimes everyone gets off while they check a few bags. And sometimes, they go through and open every bag, take dogs through the bus, crawl under it. Once, at an agricultural checkpoint, they found an apple in my carry-on bag, and told me to eat it.
> 
> In all of these stops, I have never seen any evidence of any suspicious behavior; they have been consistently polite and professional. And there are always numerous soldiers/police involved, so any attempt to plant evidence would require the collusion of a lot of people.
> 
> I am not making any judgement about the particular case discussed here, just pointing out that jumping to a conclusion on either side is iffy.



Not to mention all the newer busses have ample overhead compartments for your stuff. I never saw stuff stuffed under a seat on an executive class bus even near Christmas except when the leg rest was down and under it and in full view of everyone. There just seems to be no room when I look under the seat in front of me with all the levers and framework for the reclining seats.

Maybe this was a second class older bus, rare, except those going to the off the highway ejidos nearby here now.


----------



## Longford

TundraGreen said:


> In all of these stops, I have never seen any evidence of any suspicious behavior; they have been consistently polite and professional. And there are always numerous soldiers/police involved, so any attempt to plant evidence would require the collusion of a lot of people.


I'm not suspecting the 'planting' of the drugs ... to entrap the couple. The military may have been tipped-off that drugs were being shipped on busses on that route and they more carefully searched the inside of the bus. The military has always been business-like/relatively polite when the busses I've ridden have been searched. 

I think it's plausable that the drugs were being shipped with the knowledge/support of one of the bus company employees. Maybe even being watched-over by a fellow passenger sitting behind someplace. There's a huge amount of drugs being shipped North and we know that some of it is found hidden in truck gas tanks, milk trucks, hidden in the bodies of cars, etc. The cartels understand not all will get through. The couple was likely an easy target, fall-guys ... and being Mormons might have been reason enough for a corrupt prosecutor to tag them as the culprets. 

I wouldn't be surprised to learn later than this couple was smuggling drugs. Many people do dangerous/stupid things. I'll be disappointed if this is the case, however. From everything I've read about the couple ... they don't seem to fit the profile. Though, what's an accurate profile?


----------



## Longford

Longford said:


> I don't have a link to it, but I read a report on this yesterday, from NBC ....


Here's a link to an NBC report on the incident:

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/201...amily-of-american-woman-jailed-in-mexico?lite


----------



## citlali

Alan Mexicali, obviously you have never travelled with me, I stuff things under the leg rest or the seat in front of me on every trip and I usually get a luxury line if it is available.


----------



## cscscs007

Who knows, maybe these people were unlucky enough to get that bus, and it was pure chance the drugs were under her seat. I don't know. Someone could have tipped off the checkpoint to drugs on that bus so a larger shipment could get through the checkpoint at the same time. It wouldn't be that hard I suppose just follow the bus and delay maybe 5 minutes when it comes time to get to the checkpoint.

I have found that young and old get caught with drugs, lawyers, doctors, addicts, and the average joe, so anymore I guess everyone would fit the profile, and since it was under her seat, it's hers. She would be the one in closest proximity to it, and I am pretty sure no one else on the bus was going to step and and claim possession, that would be too simple.


----------



## cscscs007

I can already see a possible problem with this lady's case. She is a naturalized US citizen who was born in Mexico. Mexico law requires you to claim Mexican citizenship upon touching Mexico soil. Therefore, Mexico would not have to recognize her US citizenship status according to how I understand the law.

What should be revealed is whether or not she exercised her Mexico citizenship upon entering Mexico, or whether she stopped at the border and used her US citizenship and obtained a Tourist Permit. 

http://www.borderlandbeat.com/2013/05/is-az-mom-jailed-in-sonora-on.html


----------



## Lorij

I have read all the articles on it and my assessment is that she is innocent. That being said there are things I question. First being as a woman on a bus, or movie theater or on a plane I always place my purse directly under my seat usually where I can sort of clutch it with my ankles to keep it from sliding away if the bus stops suddenly perhaps. So I don't see how she wouldn't have know it was under her seat. That make me think it was planted during the check point. Second thing though, it says she was going home to AZ after attending a funeral. Well who in their right mind travels by bus through Sonora? That is a question I would like answered. Why wouldn't they fly? Surely they know that most the cities there are controlled by the cartels and in some you have to pay the cartels to be allowed to enter, the fact they thought it safe enough to travel through Sonora is mind boggling to me.


----------



## citlali

I have travel by bus through Sonora and Sinaloa and I go by bus to the border, people who do not have the money to fly take the bus. The woman is Mexican and she was not afraid of going to see her family, not everyone is paranoid about travelling in Mexico. Cartels as a rule do not go after tourists, I know there are cases where thay do but as a rule they do not,

I think she is innocent, those packages were large and seemed to have been attached by hoocks under the seat. As I said before you cannot put merchandise under your seat, the room you have is the space under the seat of the person in front of you not under your own seat. 
On luxury buses there is space under the leg rest as well but they have cameras showing people boarding buses so they can check if she is carrying packages, most people have very little with them.
The way it was bus employees probably put it there and if it went through fine if it did not ..it did not . A lot of smuggling is done by employes on plane and on buses so frankly if it was under her seat they should also look at who was behing, look at cameras prints and so on..

Those packages were a little big for the army to have put them there, someone on that bus or in the bus company put those packages there.


----------



## TundraGreen

Lorij said:


> …Second thing though, it says she was going home to AZ after attending a funeral. Well who in their right mind travels by bus through Sonora? That is a question I would like answered. Why wouldn't they fly? Surely they know that most the cities there are controlled by the cartels and in some you have to pay the cartels to be allowed to enter, the fact they thought it safe enough to travel through Sonora is mind boggling to me.


Lots of people travel by bus through Sonora everyday. There are three or four bus lines each with several buses a day, all mostly full of people. Reasons to take the bus: It is cheaper, more scenic, and more pleasant than flying. You can buy your ticket at the last minute without being gouged by the airlines. You are not treated like cattle nor packed into a space with your knees jammed against the seat in front of you and the seat in front of you in your lap. The only reason not to take the bus is that it takes longer, but if you have the time, it is a relaxing interlude.


----------



## Lorij

Well Tundragreen, I wouldn't take the bus near the border in any border states, but I guess to each his own, however the reasons you list such as being cheaper for example, to me saving money wouldn't be an issue if my safety were a concern. But obviously this woman and her husband made the decision to do it. Unfortunately for them it was a very bad decision. Not likely TSA at an airport would have planted anything on them. Just saying, people have to be observant at all times. While I know many people travel to border cities daily an back with no problems , we all know that there are problems along the border and Nogales where she was arrested is notorious for problems, and she made a gamble by taking that bus and look what it cost her. I just hope she is released soon and can get home to her children.


----------



## AlanMexicali

Lorij said:


> Well Tundragreen, I wouldn't take the bus near the border in any border states, but I guess to each his own, however the reasons you list such as being cheaper for example, to me saving money wouldn't be an issue if my safety were a concern. But obviously this woman and her husband made the decision to do it. Unfortunately for them it was a very bad decision. Not likely TSA at an airport would have planted anything on them. Just saying, people have to be observant at all times. While I know many people travel to border cities daily an back with no problems , we all know that there are problems along the border and Nogales where she was arrested is notorious for problems, and she made a gamble by taking that bus and look what it cost her. I just hope she is released soon and can get home to her children.


The thing you don´t realize about Sonora or other cities IS that airports do not have cheap flights usually unless it is a huge city. The smaller cities have commuter flights to larger cities and can cost $4,000.00 or $4,500.00 pesos one way where a bus is $400.00 pesos. People do not throw their money around like that here and bus travel, even for a single woman, is safe. I would venture to guess unless coming from a city as large as Hermosillo [obviously they were farther south] or Tepic etc. that would be the case. It does not say where they were coming from. Maybe the place doesn´t even have an airport.


----------



## Longford

AlanMexicali said:


> I would venture to guess unless coming from a city as large as Hermosillo [obviously they were farther south] or Tepic etc. that would be the case. It does not say where they were coming from. Maybe the place doesn´t even have an airport.


I've seen mentioned that the couple traveled to/from Los Mochis.


----------



## conklinwh

Seems like two witnesses have said she & husband placed suitcases under the bus and didn't take anything with them when boarding. Evidently there are tapes of the boarding but not released. In addition, she has still not been charged with anything as military was a no show at latest hearing.
I basically think impossible for a couple to take 12K(25+lbs) on board and attach with bungee cords under a seat during the boarding process. Expect was done well before anyone boarded as also difficult for military to carry 12+lbs with them to "discover".


----------



## Longford

Lorij said:


> I have read all the articles on it and my assessment is that she is innocent. That being said there are things I question. First being as a woman on a bus, or movie theater or on a plane I always place my purse directly under my seat usually where I can sort of clutch it with my ankles to keep it from sliding away if the bus stops suddenly perhaps. So I don't see how she wouldn't have know it was under her seat. That make me think it was planted during the check point. Second thing though, it says she was going home to AZ after attending a funeral. Well who in their right mind travels by bus through Sonora? That is a question I would like answered. Why wouldn't they fly? Surely they know that most the cities there are controlled by the cartels and in some you have to pay the cartels to be allowed to enter, the fact they thought it safe enough to travel through Sonora is mind boggling to me.


Sounds like you're unfamiliar with bus travel in Mexico. I doubt you'll find women putting purses, or anything of value, on the floor in front of or in back of them .. or even in overhead storage areas. Robberies on busses are commonplace (one person stealing from another), in many parts of Mexico. I travel by bus a lot in Mexico, and I've never been able to place anything under my seat from the front. The underseat area is considered the domain of the person in back of you. You have the use of the space in front of you, under the seat in front of you ... if you can maneuver behind the foot/leg-rests. As has already been said by several others, bus travel in Mexico is the principal mode of cross-country transportation. It's the first choice, for pricing reasons mostly ... and because relatively few places are served by air transportation and there is no passenger rail travel (other than the Copper Canyon and a couple of tourism-only short routes). As for the arrest, it took place near Hermosillo at a military checkpoint, according to published reports. Not in Nogales. The woman was transported to Nogales from Hermosillo. None of us knows what really happened here an the facts might see the light of day in the future. But given the dismal record of success, the lack of success and effectiveness of Mexican law enforcement and the judiciary, which are oftentimes hugely corrupted, the facts typically are never either known or made public. Until I know better, I'm still giving the benefit of the doubt to the woman who was arrested. I hope I'm not proven wrong.


----------



## Hound Dog

This seems to have been either a plant by employees of the bus line or their associates or a setup by the cops/army. My guess is it was an attempt by bus line employees to smuggle drugs by proxy but the demand of a $5,000USD bribe is another matter altogether and, if true, a sad state of affairs for Mexico. 

Sometimes corruption works for you and sometimes it works against you. If I were inclined to drive in an inebriated state, I would much rather be pulled over in Mexico than California or France so I could pay for my stupidity on the spot and maybe even be given an escort home. You folks living in Mexico have no idea what will happen to you if the cops pull you over in France when you meet their very low levels of tolerance for alcohol consumption followed by driving. You enter the gulag and there is no easy escape financially or personally.

By the way, while I personally believe this woman is innocent, let´s avoid stereotyping here. She seems a decent and intelligent person with a fine demeanor and atrractive appearance. A committed LDS member and mother of five but had she been a grungy, smelly, unattractive, poorly dressed street goonette, nobody would have believed a word she said. 

Human nature.


----------



## ehw23

Hound Dog said:


> By the way, while I personally believe this woman is innocent, let´s avoid stereotyping here. She seems a decent and intelligent person with a fine demeanor and atrractive appearance. A committed LDS member and mother of five but had she been a grungy, smelly, unattractive, poorly dressed street goonette, nobody would have believed a word she said.
> 
> Human nature.


Cartels are using beautiful and wealthy women to smuggle and do other criminal activities.

Like one poster said on the thread already... who really knows what the stereotype is now these days? I am leaning more towards innocent than guilty but just because someone like her fits the description, doesnt mean that she should be believed. 

These attractive women are being sought after for these types of things! 



Regardless, bus employee or passenger hid it. Military planting it?,...not likely.


----------



## Longford

ehw23 said:


> Military planting it?,...not likely.


I agree.


----------



## pappabee

How do you know??? What actual facts do you have that the cartels are trying to get good looking men and women???


----------



## ehw23

pappabee said:


> How do you know??? What actual facts do you have that the cartels are trying to get good looking men and women???



oh no, not again!

let me get my unreliable sources back out!... stand by. 

anyway, WHY WOULDNT THEY GET BEAUTIFUL WOMEN to do this? sex sells..sex serves as bribes... women rule the world. women money and power. 

standy by...


----------



## Isla Verde

ehw23 said:


> oh no, not again!
> 
> let me get my unreliable sources back out!... stand by.
> 
> anyway, WHY WOULDNT THEY GET BEAUTIFUL WOMEN to do this? sex sells..sex serves as bribes... women rule the world. women money and power.
> 
> standy by...


Looking forward to reading the unimpeachable sources you will find to back up your assertion!


----------



## ehw23

Isla Verde said:


> Looking forward to reading the unimpeachable sources you will find to back up your assertion!


im sure you are isla. you tend to back up someones opinion and criticize rather than give your own. i guess thats always a win win situation!

please dont proofread my sources!


----------



## ehw23

Border Wars exposes new face of drug smugglers | azfamily.com Phoenix

Smugglers turn to affluent young women to carry drugs - Houston Chronicle

U.S. Alleges Mexican Drug Cartel Rented Apartments in U.S. to Recruit Young Americans | CNS News 

Latin America: Narco-traffickers use women to smuggle narcotics
(not directly related to border smuggling but you get the point)

if these guys are using kids and students to smuggle...of course they are gonna use attractive young women to do it also. ..SOURCED OR NOT!


its hard to go back and find certain sources when keywords are crucial. i found some but there are more out there. if you desire i will continue to find more?


----------



## Longford

Isla Verde said:


> Looking forward to reading the unimpeachable sources you will find to back up your assertion!


Okay, who will be the first to step forward and volunteer ... for the _field study_? Good-looking women. Handsome men. Wow! Something for everyone. :cool2:


----------



## citlali

The cartels do not have to try to get an attractive woman, with money and threats you can get whatever you want.


----------



## ehw23

citlali said:


> The cartels do not have to try to get an attractive woman, with money and threats you can get whatever you want.


1- I know they dont HAVE to get attractive women.
2- They CHOOSE to because it seems more viable for them
3- obviously money and threats get you what you want (MONEY AND THREATS are related to the women smuggling)

so yeah...


----------



## Isla Verde

ehw23 said:


> im sure you are isla. you tend to back up someones opinion and criticize rather than give your own. i guess thats always a win win situation!
> 
> please dont proofread my sources!


Good point. It's not that I don't have my own opinions, it's more that my years as a teacher have taught me to keep my opinions to myself and to encourage others to express theirs. Also, as a newly-appointed moderator, I feel that my role is to encourage other posters to speak rather than to say what I think.

No proofreading, promise!


----------



## Longford

citlali said:


> The cartels do not have to try to get an attractive woman, with money and threats you can get whatever you want.


Yes, as earlier criminal gangs have done throughout history ... they make someone an offer they cannot refuse.


----------



## tepetapan

Any self respecting drug lord or cartel leader would not surround themselves with ugly women and men. You think Chapo Guzman runs around with arm candy scaling in at 250 and no teeth?


----------



## ehw23

Isla Verde said:


> Good point. It's not that I don't have my own opinions, it's more that my years as a teacher have taught me to keep my opinions to myself and to encourage others to express theirs. Also, as a newly-appointed moderator, I feel that my role is to encourage other posters to speak rather than to say what I think.
> 
> No proofreading, promise!


We are interested in everyones opinion thats why we discuss them here if we are included right? 

I wont discuss occupation, sex, age, or whatever it may be, as being a deterrent to not being able to make our opinions... 

... and thats what its all about!


----------



## citlali

The emphasis was on TRY they do not have to try they get whatever they want.

Good picture Longford, in a different life I worked in the liquor business with the sons of the good old prohibition gangsters. The liquor was made by the Jews and distibuted by the Italians, quite a fw years after prohibition the mob went corporate but old habits die hard and in the 60's and 70' when I started some of the sales methods of some of these guys were pretty interesting. When the Godfather came out you had to wonder if reality was imitating the movies or vice and versa. I had a real name for everyone of these guys in the Godfather..


----------



## ehw23

tepetapan said:


> Any self respecting drug lord or cartel leader would not surround themselves with ugly women and men. You think Chapo Guzman runs around with arm candy scaling in at 250 and no teeth?


!!!! 


I think we all know how the cartels do things south of the border..

and women play a huge role!


----------



## ehw23

citlali said:


> The emphasis was on TRY they do not have to try they get whatever they want.


see how emphasis on words do help some time though?
and yes..you couldnt be more correct.


----------



## Longford

tepetapan said:


> Any self respecting drug lord or cartel leader would not surround themselves with ugly women and men. You think Chapo Guzman runs around with arm candy scaling in at 250 and no teeth?


Well, now ... isn't he the adonis!












> Information is surfacing after the recent near miss capture of the leader of the Sinaloa cartel, Joaquin "El Chapo" Guzman. A article recently published by the Mexican daily newspaper Reforma said that the alleged house, located in Los Cabos, Baja California, had been rented by the Mexican drug trafficker to have a romantic encounter with a prostitute, said Cuitlahuac Salinas Martinez, Deputy head of the Organized Crime .


Source: Borderland Beat: “El Chapo” Saved by a Prostitute


----------



## ehw23

Longford said:


> Well, now ... isn't he the adonis!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Source: Borderland Beat: “El Chapo” Saved by a Prostitute


2nd time i have seen the BB.com source being used. haha i love it.

and yeah...we all know that the hot women are in with the cartels.... the ugly ones are just relatives


----------



## citlali

He is no adonis but He has the money and makes the threats so he can look like whatever he wants.. I bet he had more beautiful women than all the men on this forum put together and double that!


----------



## citlali

The mob in Vegas had two types of parties, the wedding baptisms, the parties where you brought the wives who were not bad looking and then they had the parties where they would bring the girlfriends and the rent a girl and man there were many incredibly beautiful women and plenty of guys who were no adonis.


----------



## Lorij

@Alan Mexicali and Longford- I admit I am not very familiar with bus travel here. The furthest I have traveled by bus is Oaxaca City to Puerto Angel. Fortunate for me I always fly to and from Mexico and take taxis locally. However my fiancé traveled last month to Sonora by bus with 2 friends. He said his bus was stopped 3 times in Sonora by soldiers and once an attempted stop by the cartel. He himself said he will never travel by bus through that state again, he said it made him quite nervous. However I still believe she is innocent and the drugs belonged to someone else. I do however maintain my belief that more wise decision making could have prevented this very unfortunate event from happening to her and her family. I am praying she is soon released so she can return to her family.


----------



## citlali

I travel from Chiapas to Guadalajara quite a bit and we have been stopped between Tuxtla Gutierrez and Puebla up to 8 times during the night. We also get stopped a lot between Tuxtla Tehuantepec and Oaxaca , it is pretty normal when you are not very far from borders . Around borders you get stopped by the army looking for drugs or weapons, the immigration looking for central Americans, one night they came on board and took pictures of some people, who knows what that was about. Any dark skin person is checked, Aduana also boards the buses, you get stopped when you drive too, better get used to it if you are to go anywhere. 
The army have this formulaic statement they make and the minute they start saying it we just get out, they search the car and we go back into it and go on , same with the bus. That is life in border states and on the big drug routes.
What is the scoop about the attempted stop by the cartel n Sonora? If they are cartels who want to stop you they usually stop you so these guys must have been flunkies..
A woman I met told me that she got got stopped by the cartels once in Michoacan, they only wanted to set her car on fire to make a reten and fortunately a truck came up so they stopped it and burned it instead. That was on the road coming back from Zihuatanejo .

What wiser decision could she take? Buses are ok, you stand more chances of being in a accident than being killed by cartels on a bus. By the way the little vans that take you verywhere are also ok and a whole lot cheaper than taxis.


----------



## cscscs007

I thought a beauty pageant queen was shot not too long ago that was involved/associating with some cartel members. If I remember it correctly it was in Sinaloa also.


----------



## citlali

Well there was one that was arrested as being one of the leaders, was that the one you were talking about?
The there is a composite of the cartels and the beauty queen pageant dealings in the movie "Miss Bala"
Isn´t the wife of el Chapo an ex beauty queen as well?


----------



## cscscs007

Cartel vs. Military Firefight Kills Mexican Beauty Queen - ABC News



This is the one I was talking about.


----------



## ehw23

and then you go the reina del pacifico... i think she was SANDRA BELTRAN or something? She was a hottie that was ranked up! she is MIAMI awaiting trial or already sentenced.


----------



## ehw23

*Edit*

and then you got the reina del pacifico... i think she her name is SANDRA BELTRAN or something? She was a hottie that was ranked up! she is in MIAMI awaiting trial or already sentenced


----------



## ehw23

Oh yeah,,they did let the Maldonado lady from AZ free! Seems as if the defense had surveillance of the couple getting on the bus so they were clean!


----------



## Longford

Here's a link to an article summarizing the incident and discussing the dropping of charges and release of the woman:

U.S. woman held in Mexico on drug smuggling charge freed - CBS News


----------



## ehw23

Arizona mom jailed in Mexico says she'll drive next time

Read more: Arizona mom jailed in Mexico says she'll drive next time | Fox News



Haha...Good one Mrs. Maldonado. Im sure driving is a whole lot better/safer (especially with foreign plates). I think not.


----------



## Mexberry

Our neighbour has had his wife held for ransom, a friend had her son kidnapped and so far no ransom note received.The local police are suspected as being the culprits. A drug dealer was shot recently at our local Starbucks. Last summer we were stopped 6 times in a one month period by the transitos trying to scam money.There is no control over the police.

All law enforcement in Mexico, needs to be better trained, much better paid with far more having a university education. Ditto for the prosecutors and judges. The BBC reported 81 decapitations in Mexico last month. Whether or not the president chooses to ignore the problem, it still exists and will not go away. Meantime tourism is suffering as N.Americans are staying away in droves. Until corruption is dealt with the citizens of Mexico will suffer the consequences.


----------



## elsonador

A couple weeks ago I was in Playa del Carmen checking out the scenery if you will, while in a popular night club I was confronted by a man in the bathroom attempting to sell me cocaine. I walked out and told my wife, we both chalked it up to "how things are in clubs almost everywhere in the world".

While walking back to our hotel I saw two police officers and decided to tell them about the incident just to see their reactions (now I would never do this in a town where I lived, just due to the dangerous possibilities but while on vacation I figured what the hell). Needless to say the cops looked at me like I was nuts, I told them "do you know club "x" on the corner, there is a man selling drugs in there" both the officers looked at each other perplexed and then nodded their heads. 

My wife told me in Spanish "lets go they're not going to do anything" I continued looking at the cops and asked "are you going to go arrest him?" (I know I know, they either didn't care/couldnt do anything) as I turned to walk away one of the cops stopped me and asked for a description of the man and I explained to him what he looked like and was wearing. As we walked away I looked back one more time to see the pair standing there chatting, surely they already knew and their hands were tied on the matter.

I just found it interesting. Obviously not something to go doing in Mexico.


----------



## FHBOY

elsonador said:


> A couple weeks ago I was in Playa del Carmen checking out the scenery if you will, while in a popular night club I was confronted by a man in the bathroom attempting to sell me cocaine. I walked out and told my wife, we both chalked it up to "how things are in clubs almost everywhere in the world".
> 
> While walking back to our hotel I saw two police officers and decided to tell them about the incident just to see their reactions (now I would never do this in a town where I lived, just due to the dangerous possibilities but while on vacation I figured what the hell). Needless to say the cops looked at me like I was nuts, I told them "do you know club "x" on the corner, there is a man selling drugs in there" both the officers looked at each other perplexed and then nodded their heads.
> 
> My wife told me in Spanish "lets go they're not going to do anything" I continued looking at the cops and asked "are you going to go arrest him?" (I know I know, they either didn't care/couldnt do anything) as I turned to walk away one of the cops stopped me and asked for a description of the man and I explained to him what he looked like and was wearing. As we walked away I looked back one more time to see the pair standing there chatting, surely they already knew and their hands were tied on the matter.
> 
> I just found it interesting. Obviously not something to go doing in Mexico.


You knew that nothing was going to happen, right? Aren't low level dealers of no interest here and what if their illegal activity actually helps the economy of the ares (a perverse thought - sort of like access to illegal prostitutes in the USA, where just about every cabbie and limo driver knows what motivates the tourist of a certain ilk).

I think the term is "benign neglect" [coined by Patrick Moynihan while he was on Nixon's staff in the White House]. Still and all, it does put a serious slant on law enforcement here, but no worse than in the USA.

C'set la vive! :noidea:


----------



## Isla Verde

Mexberry said:


> Our neighbour has had his wife held for ransom, a friend had her son kidnapped and so far no ransom note received.The local police are suspected as being the culprits. A drug dealer was shot recently at our local Starbucks. Last summer we were stopped 6 times in a one month period by the transitos trying to scam money.There is no control over the police.
> 
> All law enforcement in Mexico, needs to be better trained, much better paid with far more having a university education. Ditto for the prosecutors and judges. The BBC reported 81 decapitations in Mexico last month. Whether or not the president chooses to ignore the problem, it still exists and will not go away. Meantime tourism is suffering as N.Americans are staying away in droves. Until corruption is dealt with the citizens of Mexico will suffer the consequences.


Where do you live in Mexico?

I wasn't aware that N. American tourists were staying away "in droves" from Mexico. A link to a news story would be useful to verify this statement.


----------



## Marishka

Isla Verde said:


> Where do you live in Mexico?
> 
> I wasn't aware that N. American tourists were staying away "in droves" from Mexico. A link to a news story would be useful to verify this statement.


American tourists are definitely not staying away "in droves" from Mexico. According to this June 3, 2013 article from the _Brownsville Herald_, tourism to Mexico is up--way up.


> As Congress debates immigration reform legislation, millions of tourists and billions of dollars continue to cross the U.S.-Mexico border in both directions.
> 
> A study released in early May by NDN, a center-left think tank based in Washington, D.C., shows *trade and tourism between the two countries is at an all-time high*.


----------



## Isla Verde

Marishka said:


> American tourists are definitely not staying away "in droves" from Mexico. According to this June 3, 2013 article from the _Brownsville Herald_, tourism to Mexico is up--way up.


Thanks for posting some good news about Mexico, Marishka.


----------



## conorkilleen

yeah...its silly to say that Americans are staying away from Mexico in droves. I have 5 friends old and young that have recently spent a week or 2 here on vacation. La Paz, Cancun, Merida, Cabos, and Acapulco.

I have a Mexican friend that helps run the tourist information service center in one of the very large all inclusive resorts in Cancun and she says that there has NEVER been a drop in customers...its actually increased over the last 3 years. She is very happy with her job.

On the other hand, I can see that possibly some Americans are not going to Michocan, Tamps, Sonora, and Chihuahua for vacation anymore


----------



## dkg767

Mexberry said:


> Our neighbour has had his wife held for ransom, a friend had her son kidnapped and so far no ransom note received.The local police are suspected as being the culprits. A drug dealer was shot recently at our local Starbucks. Last summer we were stopped 6 times in a one month period by the transitos trying to scam money.There is no control over the police.
> 
> All law enforcement in Mexico, needs to be better trained, much better paid with far more having a university education. Ditto for the prosecutors and judges. The BBC reported 81 decapitations in Mexico last month. Whether or not the president chooses to ignore the problem, it still exists and will not go away. Meantime tourism is suffering as N.Americans are staying away in droves. Until corruption is dealt with the citizens of Mexico will suffer the consequences.


Well, as you see the date here is Dec. 2011 and a lot has happened since.......First off people are NOT staying away in droves as stated by others too. I have seen a rise in tourism.
Driving down and back was safe, fast and relaxing....stay on the toll roads and you will have less problems than in the States where motorists drive helter skelter and do NOT obey the rules of staying right unless passing. The Mx. drivers follow these rules ( go figure! ) and it is a SPEEDY journey.
Good luck with your travels......I love Lake Chapala by the way.


----------



## Isla Verde

dkg767 said:


> Well, as you see the date here is Dec. 2011 and a lot has happened since.......First off people are NOT staying away in droves as stated by others too. I have seen a rise in tourism.
> Driving down and back was safe, fast and relaxing....stay on the toll roads and you will have less problems than in the States where motorists drive helter skelter and do NOT obey the rules of staying right unless passing. The Mx. drivers follow these rules ( go figure! ) and it is a SPEEDY journey.
> Good luck with your travels......I love Lake Chapala by the way.


What is dated December 2011? Mexberry's post mentioning Americans tourists staying away in droves is from yesterday.


----------



## michmex

Mexberry said:


> Our neighbour has had his wife held for ransom, a friend had her son kidnapped and so far no ransom note received.The local police are suspected as being the culprits. A drug dealer was shot recently at our local Starbucks. Last summer we were stopped 6 times in a one month period by the transitos trying to scam money.There is no control over the police.
> 
> All law enforcement in Mexico, needs to be better trained, much better paid with far more having a university education. Ditto for the prosecutors and judges. The BBC reported 81 decapitations in Mexico last month. Whether or not the president chooses to ignore the problem, it still exists and will not go away. Meantime tourism is suffering as N.Americans are staying away in droves. Until corruption is dealt with the citizens of Mexico will suffer the consequences.





" Meantime tourism is suffering as N.Americans are staying away in droves."

The data does not support your statement. From the "News", Thursday, June 6, 2013, 

"Mexico City– The number of visitors who have flown into Mexico from overseas increased by 6.3 percent during the first four months of the year, according to recently released statistics. In total 4.36 million foreign tourists arrived in the country in the year to April, according to a report from the National Migration Institute’s (INM) Comprehensive Immigration System, which also said that 2,270,759 tourists arrived from the United States, an increase of 5.9 percent compared to the first quarter of 2012. More tourists come to Mexico from the U.S. than any other country."

International tourism to Mexico increasing

Transitos are pretty much universally disliked by everyone. 2 years ago I was stopped TWICE in 100 meters because my Michigan plated car has no front plate. They were seeing pesos dance before their eyes and the "cha chings" were ringing in their ears, but alas, they received no pesos from me.

This year ,Tlanepantla as part of an Edomex program, is training new women officers to give out tickets. They have specially marked vehicles and have easily identifiable vests. Officials hope that this will decrease the number of complaints.

Will all-female traffic cops fix Mexico state corruption?


----------



## Mexberry

The economy in Mexico,tourism excepted, seems to be doing well. However Puerto Vallarta and the Riviera Nayarit have had 4 rough years. There is so much real estate for sale, prices halved from 2008 levels and very little is moving. Some of this is due to the recession in the US, but the extremely negative press that all the murders and kidnapping has caused is taking it's toll in the tourist numbers. Mexico City might have had an increase in overseas visitors, however Cancun and Puerto Vallarta have direct flights from N.America where the bulk of their traffic originates. There are only 15 cruise ships coming to PV this year! Mazatlan, because of crime directed against tourists has been pulled from the schedule entirely.
There are other sun destinations in the world where crime is under control, so why risk coming to Mexico?


----------



## michmex

Mexberry said:


> The economy in Mexico,tourism excepted, seems to be doing well. However Puerto Vallarta and the Riviera Nayarit have had 4 rough years. There is so much real estate for sale, prices halved from 2008 levels and very little is moving. Some of this is due to the recession in the US, but the extremely negative press that all the murders and kidnapping has caused is taking it's toll in the tourist numbers. Mexico City might have had an increase in overseas visitors, however Cancun and Puerto Vallarta have direct flights from N.America where the bulk of their traffic originates. There are only 15 cruise ships coming to PV this year! Mazatlan, because of crime directed against tourists has been pulled from the schedule entirely.
> There are other sun destinations in the world where crime is under control, so why risk coming to Mexico?




From an article in the "Los Angeles Times" dated June 18, 2013 by Rosemary McClure.

"Mexico: Tourism picture is brightening for Mazatlan"

http://www.latimes.com/travel/deals/la-trb-mexico-mazatlan-tourism-improves-20130617,0,7428633.story

"Now the Mexican Riviera city has just had its best spring season ever and is poised to have a record-breaking summer season, according to tourism bureau statistics. 

The London Financial Times named it one of the Top 10 American Cities of the Future, rating it as Mexico's top medium-sized city in terms of its future economic expectations and cost effectiveness."


----------

