# Withdrawal agreement / visa



## Echo16

Hi!
I’ve been living in France for the past 20+ years & married to a Frenchman. Last August I came back to Scotland to look after my Dad who has Alzheimer’s. I didn’t know I was supposed to apply for the withdrawal agreement residency permit until after the deadline in October so I don’t have it. I now want to return to my home in France (I’m still in Scotland) but I’ve been told I’ll need a long stay visa because I don’t have the residency permit.
I tried to apply for a visa online but the form requires you enter your residency permit number (because my home address is in France) which I don’t have! 
I heard it is possible to still get a residency permit if you have extenuating circumstances (which I hope is my case) but I’ve tried the consulates in London and Edinburgh, the prefectures in France and the British and French embassies and no-one has been able to tell me how to get it.
I’m afraid if I turn up at the airport as a tourist they will ask for my residency permit and won’t let me in, and even if I do manage to get back appointments at the prefecture are all automated so I would have to ask for a carte de séjour not a residency permit and I’m worried I’ll lose all the rights I had before, including my business.
Can anybody tell me how to get the residency permit or at least a visa without the residency permit so I can go home? I feel like I’m going round in circles in a catch 22 situation!


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## Crabtree

Well you could enter as a tourist for 90 days under the Schengen waiver then get your WA carte de Sejour sorted You can also apply for a CDS at your prefecture on the grounds that you are the spouse of an EU national So I cannot see any problem with you returning and getting the WA card sorted when you are in France
You do not need the long term visa IMO to enter France


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## BackinFrance

Crabtree said:


> Well you could enter as a tourist for 90 days under the Schengen waiver then get your WA carte de Sejour sorted You can also apply for a CDS at your prefecture on the grounds that you are the spouse of an EU national So I cannot see any problem with you returning and getting the WA card sorted when you are in France
> You do not need the long term visa IMO to enter France


She is married to a French man, which is not the same as being married to an EU citizen, the latter being a citizen of another EU country. I don't have the answer but perhaps she should apply for a visa as the spouse of a French citizen, or come as a tourist and apply for a CDS as the spouse of a French citizen after arrival which involves paying a fine.


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## Echo16

Crabtree said:


> Well you could enter as a tourist for 90 days under the Schengen waiver then get your WA carte de Sejour sorted You can also apply for a CDS at your prefecture on the grounds that you are the spouse of an EU national So I cannot see any problem with you returning and getting the WA card sorted when you are in France
> You do not need the long term visa IMO to enter France


Thanks for your quick answer! But won’t they know from my passport I’ve got a French address? I’m worried they ask for the residency permit even if I have a return ticket for Scotland. The ambafrance website and French consulate said I’d need a visa to go back.


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## Echo16

BackinFrance said:


> She is married to a French man, which is not the same as being married to an EU citizen, the latter being a citizen of another EU country. I don't have the answer but perhaps she should apply for a visa as the spouse of a French citizen, or come as a tourist and apply for a CDS as the spouse of a French citizen after arrival which involves paying a fine.


I want to avoid getting a new Carte de Sejour if at all possible- I would like to get the residency permit (with extenuating circumstances because I missed the deadline) so that I can keep my business/rights etc. I had before. The French consulate in Edinburgh said they are still granting such residency permits and to call the consulate in London but so far no luck- just automated responses and links to visa website…


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## BackinFrance

If that is correct then you don't have a problem. You don't have a problem anyway given you can regularise your presence in France by entering on the 90 day visa waiver and then getting your CDS as the spouse of a French citizen for a fine of around 250 Euros.

Perhaps you should also apply for French citizenship once you have been married long enough to do so.


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## Bevdeforges

Quickest way to do this would be to apply for a spouse visa (i.e. vie privée et familiale visa as the spouse of a French national). Those are very nearly automatically granted and cost nothing, as opposed to the "penalty" for the carte de séjour after you arrive in France. For the application, use the address of your father, since that's where you've been living the last several months. (People really don't get around to changing the address in their passports for temporary absences like that.) You may need to have your spouse send you your livret de famille, but that shouldn't be a real problem. You may also need a copy of your spouse's French carte d'identité (both sides).

You can sort out the carte de séjour when you return - but actually the spouse visa gives you all the relevant rights, including to work and maintain your business. There may be no real reason to change status to the WA cds, but talk to the prefecture when you get back.


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## Echo16

Bevdeforges said:


> Quickest way to do this would be to apply for a spouse visa (i.e. vie privée et familiale visa as the spouse of a French national). Those are very nearly automatically granted and cost nothing, as opposed to the "penalty" for the carte de séjour after you arrive in France. For the application, use the address of your father, since that's where you've been living the last several months. (People really don't get around to changing the address in their passports for temporary absences like that.) You may need to have your spouse send you your livret de famille, but that shouldn't be a real problem. You may also need a copy of your spouse's French carte d'identité (both sides).
> 
> You can sort out the carte de séjour when you return - but actually the spouse visa gives you all the relevant rights, including to work and maintain your business. There may be no real reason to change status to the WA cds, but talk to the prefecture when you get back.


That’s great news Bev you’ve answered all my questions! That’s a relief- I didn’t realize the spouse visa covered my rights. I’ve got my livret de famille here & mariage certificate so all should be ok  👍🏻 Thanks for your quick answer too!


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## Bevdeforges

The one potential downside to going the spouse visa route is that I think you will ultimately be charged for the carte de séjour (whereas the WA one is free) and if you decide to stick with the spouse one, they may want you to go through the classes and such - though the OFII (who is in charge of that stuff) seems to be way more reasonable than the prefectures, and they may be able to waive some of that. But, you'll never know unless you ask them.


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## vianina

It is possible to get the WA residence permit via the prefecture, for those who were for example too young to apply while the online platform was open. I just did that for my daughter. I don't see why they would not make an exception in your case and grant you the card, but try to provide evidence of why you could not apply before (e.g. sick relative, stressed about the situation, therefore missed the announcements). To apply for the WA residence permit, what you need to provide is proof of when you arrived in France (eg old tax bills or utility bills with your name on), proof of residence in 2020 (again, bills), proof of residence now dated from less than six months ago, proof of address, birth certificate if possible, valid passport, two passport photos of the required size (45x35 mm). Proof of solvency and economic activity are useful. Marriage certificate might help them to look more kindly on you. All of the paperwork should be photocopied but take the originals to your appointment too. Go onto your prefecture site, section "Etrangers", and download the generic application form for a titre de sejour (the one I downloaded is called formulaire_demande_titre_de_sejour_2). In "Motif" put Article 18(1) Accord de Retrait du Royaume-Uni de l'UE. 

On the prefecture site, you need to make an appointment electronically to go and submit your paperwork. That may require many attempts over days or weeks; in my case, the site kept saying that no appointments were available, and then after a couple of weeks they opened some up. Do not delay; get your application in quickly and with luck they should grant it.

As others have said, you don't need a visa to get back into France because of the 90-day visa waiver.


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## Echo16

I see, thanks for that info…I’ve sent lots of emails and made loads of calls to various prefectures and always get put through to automated services for étrangers, no-one has been able to tell me how to get the late WA residency permit, it’s really frustrating.
Do you know who to contact about it or do I have to get an appointment for a carte de Sejour and tell them I would like a WA residency permit when I get there?
By classes you mean to learn French? (I speak French fluently and translate for a living).
Many thanks again for your help.


vianina said:


> It is possible to get the WA residence permit via the prefecture, for those who were for example too young to apply while the online platform was open. I just did that for my daughter. I don't see why they would not make an exception in your case and grant you the card, but try to provide evidence of why you could not apply before (e.g. sick relative, stressed about the situation, therefore missed the announcements). To apply for the WA residence permit, what you need to provide is proof of when you arrived in France (eg old tax bills or utility bills with your name on), proof of residence in 2020 (again, bills), proof of residence now dated from less than six months ago, proof of address, birth certificate if possible, valid passport, two passport photos of the required size (45x35 mm). Proof of solvency and economic activity are useful. Marriage certificate might help them to look more kindly on you. All of the paperwork should be photocopied but take the originals to your appointment too. Go onto your prefecture site, section "Etrangers", and download the generic application form for a titre de sejour (the one I downloaded is called formulaire_demande_titre_de_sejour_2). In "Motif" put Article 18(1) Accord de Retrait du Royaume-Uni de l'UE.
> 
> On the prefecture site, you need to make an appointment electronically to go and submit your paperwork. That may require many attempts over days or weeks; in my case, the site kept saying that no appointments were available, and then after a couple of weeks they opened some up. Do not delay; get your application in quickly and with luck they should grant it.
> 
> As others have said, you don't need a visa to get back into France because of the 90-day visa waiver.


Thanks for your reply, that’s very helpful. I have all the necessary papers and I’ll get a letter from the doctor here to say I was looking after my dad, that might help my case. I’ve got a visa appointment booked now so hopefully will be back home soon!


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## vianina

Echo16 said:


> I’ve got a visa appointment booked now so hopefully will be back home soon!


Again, you absolutely don't need a visa to get back into France. You just need a UK passport with six months' validity on it.


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## Echo16

Bevdeforges said:


> Quickest way to do this would be to apply for a spouse visa (i.e. vie privée et familiale visa as the spouse of a French national). Those are very nearly automatically granted and cost nothing, as opposed to the "penalty" for the carte de séjour after you arrive in France. For the application, use the address of your father, since that's where you've been living the last several months. (People really don't get around to changing the address in their passports for temporary absences like that.) You may need to have your spouse send you your livret de famille, but that shouldn't be a real problem. You may also need a copy of your spouse's French carte d'identité (both sides).
> 
> You can sort out the carte de séjour when you return - but actually the spouse visa gives you all the relevant rights, including to work and maintain your business. There may be no real reason to change status to the WA cds, but talk to the prefecture when you get back.


Hi Bev, I got the spouse visa and came back to France in April, now when I go online to apply for the carte de Sejour at the sous-prefecture I have to validate my long-stay visa first at a cost of 200€! (it said on the visa application website the visa was free). 
i haven’t been able to ask anyone at the sous-prefecture or prefecture about this as phone lines are all automated, and I’m worried I’ll have to pay for the carte de Sejour as well as validating my visa- do you know if this is normal?
Many thanks in advance


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## Bevdeforges

The visa is free - but the carte de séjour is a separate document and is usually subject to fees. The visa is a document that allows you to enter France, whereas a titre de séjour (a residence permit) is the document that allows you to reside in France.

Take a look at this page from Service Public: Carte de séjour "vie privée et familiale" d'un étranger en France and click on the drop down for Epoux de français (spouse of a French person).

Your initial visa is one of those that functions as a VLS-TS (which means that the validation of your visa serves as your initial titre de séjour). You don't request a carte de séjour until the end of your first year in France, when you renew your titre de séjour from the prefecture. Until then, the visa in your passport serves as your residence permit - though I believe you still need to validate your visa/VLS-TS with the OFII. The OFII wil then contact you about the various meetings and classes necessary to complete before you can renew your residence permit for the second year (through the prefecture).

You should have received a paper explaining the process to you when you received your visa, but occasionally these things go missing. This is the Service Public page on the subject Valider un visa de long séjour valant titre de séjour (VLS-TS) et payer la taxe (Service en ligne) but the link to the on-line site doesn't seem to be working at the moment. If it doesn't work for you in a day or so, try using the Signaler un probleme link on the lower left of the page.

This page (in English) contains the same (faulty) link for validating your visa. Long-stay visa France equivalent to a residence permit (VLS-TS) - Welcome to France You may prefer to report a problem through this site in English.


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## Echo16

That’s great thanks Bev I understand better now 


Bevdeforges said:


> The visa is free - but the carte de séjour is a separate document and is usually subject to fees. The visa is a document that allows you to enter France, whereas a titre de séjour (a residence permit) is the document that allows you to reside in France.
> 
> Take a look at this page from Service Public: Carte de séjour "vie privée et familiale" d'un étranger en France and click on the drop down for Epoux de français (spouse of a French person).
> 
> Your initial visa is one of those that functions as a VLS-TS (which means that the validation of your visa serves as your initial titre de séjour). You don't request a carte de séjour until the end of your first year in France, when you renew your titre de séjour from the prefecture. Until then, the visa in your passport serves as your residence permit - though I believe you still need to validate your visa/VLS-TS with the OFII. The OFII wil then contact you about the various meetings and classes necessary to complete before you can renew your residence permit for the second year (through the prefecture).
> 
> You should have received a paper explaining the process to you when you received your visa, but occasionally these things go missing. This is the Service Public page on the subject Valider un visa de long séjour valant titre de séjour (VLS-TS) et payer la taxe (Service en ligne) but the link to the on-line site doesn't seem to be working at the moment. If it doesn't work for you in a day or so, try using the Signaler un probleme link on the lower left of the page.
> 
> This page (in English) contains the same (faulty) link for validating your visa. Long-stay visa France equivalent to a residence permit (VLS-TS) - Welcome to France You may prefer to report a problem through this site in English.
> [/QUOT





Bevdeforges said:


> The visa is free - but the carte de séjour is a separate document and is usually subject to fees. The visa is a document that allows you to enter France, whereas a titre de séjour (a residence permit) is the document that allows you to reside in France.
> 
> Take a look at this page from Service Public: Carte de séjour "vie privée et familiale" d'un étranger en France and click on the drop down for Epoux de français (spouse of a French person).
> 
> Your initial visa is one of those that functions as a VLS-TS (which means that the validation of your visa serves as your initial titre de séjour). You don't request a carte de séjour until the end of your first year in France, when you renew your titre de séjour from the prefecture. Until then, the visa in your passport serves as your residence permit - though I believe you still need to validate your visa/VLS-TS with the OFII. The OFII wil then contact you about the various meetings and classes necessary to complete before you can renew your residence permit for the second year (through the prefecture).
> 
> You should have received a paper explaining the process to you when you received your visa, but occasionally these things go missing. This is the Service Public page on the subject Valider un visa de long séjour valant titre de séjour (VLS-TS) et payer la taxe (Service en ligne) but the link to the on-line site doesn't seem to be working at the moment. If it doesn't work for you in a day or so, try using the Signaler un probleme link on the lower left of the page.
> 
> This page (in English) contains the same (faulty) link for validating your visa. Long-stay visa France equivalent to a residence permit (VLS-TS) - Welcome to France You may prefer to report a problem through this site in English.


That’s great thanks for your quick answer Bev I understand better now  The link is working on my computer. 
I still haven’t found a way to apply for a late accord de retraite residence permit (with extenuating circumstances) with the online carte de Sejour application process - I thought it would be better to try and get that than a carte de Sejour as proof that I’ve been in France for over 20 years- do you think it’s necessary?


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