# Summary of IVA (VAT) increases



## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

New rates came into effect on 1 September.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Alcalaina said:


> New rates came into effect on 1 September.


I can't believe that school supplies have moved from 4% to 21% - what a ridiculous move!

many kids in my girls' school went to school with no school books last year because the parents couldn't afford them & the grant for low income families just never appeared

how much worse will it be this year?


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## leedsutdgem (Jun 3, 2010)

xabiachica said:


> I can't believe that school supplies have moved from 4% to 21% - what a ridiculous move!
> 
> many kids in my girls' school went to school with no school books last year because the parents couldn't afford them & the grant for low income families just never appeared
> 
> how much worse will it be this year?


Sports has gone from 8%-21%. The golf industry will be hit bigtime by this. Before they classed golf as a tourist activity now its sport. Ah well more hotels in the winter will have to close their doors now. The people running this country havent got a clue.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

xabiachica said:


> I can't believe that school supplies have moved from 4% to 21% - what a ridiculous move!
> 
> many kids in my girls' school went to school with no school books last year because the parents couldn't afford them & the grant for low income families just never appeared
> 
> how much worse will it be this year?


I thought the actual books were staying at 4%? It's everything else - notebooks, folders, crayons etc that have been recategorised.

El alza del IVA del material escolar elevará la recaudación en 82 millones | Economía | EL PAÍS

I must say I'm not too sorry for the golfers, they probably won't even notice. :tongue1:


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Alcalaina said:


> I thought the actual books were staying at 4%? It's everything else - notebooks, folders, crayons etc that have been recategorised.
> 
> El alza del IVA del material escolar elevará la recaudación en 82 millones | Economía | EL PAÍS
> 
> I must say I'm not too sorry for the golfers, they probably won't even notice. :tongue1:


I haven't looked that closely - but even just for supplies that's a killer - my 2 get through several 100€ worth of pens, paper etc every year


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Alcalaina said:


> I thought the actual books were staying at 4%? It's everything else - notebooks, folders, crayons etc that have been recategorised.
> 
> El alza del IVA del material escolar elevará la recaudación en 82 millones | Economía | EL PAÍS
> 
> I must say I'm not too sorry for the golfers, they probably won't even notice. :tongue1:


But they bring a lot of cash into some areas of Spain, don't they? This could result in massive job losses.

And I'm sure they're not all plutocrats... In some parts of the UK, Scotland for example, it's not an 'elite' sport.

Not that I know anything about golf as I find it incredibly boring and the clothes serious golfers wear a tad silly. The only time I've visited a golf club house was not an experience I'd care to repeat.


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## leedsutdgem (Jun 3, 2010)

mrypg9 said:


> But they bring a lot of cash into some areas of Spain, don't they? This could result in massive job losses.
> 
> And I'm sure they're not all plutocrats... In some parts of the UK, Scotland for example, it's not an 'elite' sport.
> 
> Not that I know anything about golf as I find it incredibly boring and the clothes serious golfers wear a tad silly. The only time I've visited a golf club house was not an experience I'd care to repeat.


They bring a hell of a lot of money into spain. They also spend a lot more than your average tourist. I work for a golf tour operator here and people are already talking about going to Turkey next year.


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## brocher (Mar 21, 2011)

Well. the increase for schools is absolutely ridiculous. 

I'm pretty sure the schools will not have any increase in their budgets, so effectively they will be able to provide far less resources for pupils many of whose parents will also be entirely unable to provide their children with essentials.

How will a poorly educated generation help Spain recover?

As to the golf - that is also ridiculous. Many areas such as Andalucia will suffer further from lost revenue and job losses with this level of price increase. I know several people who regularly go on golf holidays - the men play golf all day, the wives spend money shopping, etc, they all spend on drinks, meals and accommodation. These people will simply go elsewhere - as already mentioned, Turkey is already taking some of this market with their competitive pricing and good facilities.


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## neddie (Jun 11, 2012)

.....if you ask me it doesn't look like too much thought went into the raising of taxes. I know that a number of people will consider me crazy, but i would have reduced taxes in many areas especially anything to do with tourism. One wants monies coming into the country and the main ways to do that is either through increased exports or increased tourism..... that is money coming into the country which in turn doesn't have to be borrowed. An additional rub off being that increased exports and tourism provides jobs............unfortunately Brussels rules Spain.

What they have done is increase the COL for all locals, increase costs for tourists (who could easily go elsewhere) and increase the costs of exports.


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## dunmovin (Dec 19, 2008)

neddie said:


> .....if you ask me it doesn't look like too much thought went into the raising of taxes. I know that a number of people will consider me crazy, but i would have reduced taxes in many areas especially anything to do with tourism. One wants monies coming into the country and the main ways to do that is either through increased exports or increased tourism..... that is money coming into the country which in turn doesn't have to be borrowed. An additional rub off being that increased exports and tourism provides jobs............unfortunately Brussels rules Spain.
> 
> What they have done is increase the COL for all locals, increase costs for tourists (who could easily go elsewhere) and increase the costs of exports.



There is quite a lot of sense in what you've said. The old maxim of " lower the margin to increase the turnover, ergo the net amount earned is more". 

It seems incredibly stupid to force prices up, when so many businesses are struggling. Raise the IVA on goods, then transport cost(my pet hate, as it hits everyone twice and nothing escapes it)


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

leedsutdgem said:


> They bring a hell of a lot of money into spain. They also spend a lot more than your average tourist. I work for a golf tour operator here and people are already talking about going to Turkey next year.


I wasn't sure but I suspected that was the case. It's more likelythat the idea that golf is an activity confined to the 'monied classes' is a prejudice rather than a fact. 
The fees for a day's golf, at least the ones Ive seen advertised in Sur, are less than a ticket to a top side football match, tickets for which are astronomical these days.

Golf tourism would I guess be a good source of revenue in the autumn and spring and even winter months to balance summer tourism. My son usually brings a group of his friends over in November for a golfing weekend and I'm sure they spend a lot of money in local bars and restaurants - certainly in local bars...


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

leedsutdgem said:


> They bring a hell of a lot of money into spain. They also spend a lot more than your average tourist. I work for a golf tour operator here and people are already talking about going to Turkey next year.


It will be interesting to see if they put their money where their mouth is. Come back in a year's time and tell us!


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Alcalaina said:


> It will be interesting to see if they put their money where their mouth is. Come back in a year's time and tell us!


She'll know in less than a year! The golf season begins very soon, doesn't it?

Golfers come from all sections of society and income levels. Golf is not a pastime excusively limited to the 'privileged' classes. Spaniards too play golf. Like the rest of us, they'll be comparing costs and making decisions based on that important factor.


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## NickZ (Jun 26, 2009)

So lets think this out.

Government gives Ryanair et all millions to fly golfers to Spain.

Government spends millions more building/operating airports for Ryanair.

Government spends millions more on roads and other services. 

Golfers come and spend. They're so price sensitive that the IVA increase scares them off. How much money will people that price sensitive spend?

The Government gets a little bit of money from the IVA paid by those golfers. 

The Spaniards get jobs that tend to pay at the bottom of the wage scale. Right? Hotel and bar jobs aren't exactly paying footballer salaries.

Instead the suggestion is to hike the taxes on the maids etc that look after the golfers?


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

NickZ said:


> So lets think this out.
> 
> Government gives Ryanair et all millions to fly golfers to Spain.
> 
> ...



No. Who suggested that?

One of Spain's most important revenue sources is tourism, not just the sun and beach kind. The increases will affect other kinds of tourism too. 
Why should golfers not be 'price sensitive'? Are you too suggesting they are all so wealthy that they will pay any price to be able to play in Spain rather than somewhere else with similar or better amenities and lower prices?
This hike applies to other facilities than golf. Are people who come to Spain for cultural reasons so wealthy that they will not be deterred by price increases which can mount up if you think in terms of families? 

The fact that so much money is being spent on infrastructure designed to promote and facilitate tourism implies that an IVA rise of this magnitude is a shot in the foot.

It seems that tourism is the only sector of the Spanish economy to have shown some improvement over last year, albeit slight. Surely it would have been more sensible to implement measures designed to increase all kinds of tourism?

What Spain needs is policies designed to promote growth..and rapidly. Where is the money to come from? There is a point at which increased taxation fails to bring in significant extra revenue since people simply stop doing the taxed activity, for one reason. Consumption taxes such as IVA tend to hit the poorest in society hardest, even when differentiated.

We can all see the mess the country is in and deplore it but the Government isn't the only one short on feasible measures to put things right...


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

I knew that comment would get you all going! 

Golf courses ruin the environment and use up valuable water resources. I'd like to see them all turned into renewable energy farms.

Rearrange these words into a well-known phrase: pigeons, throw, amongst, cat.

:bolt:


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Alcalaina said:


> I knew that comment would get you all going!
> 
> Golf courses ruin the environment and use up valuable water resources. I'd like to see them all turned into renewable energy farms.
> 
> ...



I dare say you would. It's a good idea - although I'm not so sure about the renewable energy farms.. Most golf courses in Spain are set around ugly developments. Scrapping them would definitely remove eyesores.
But then very many people of all income levels and nationalities enjoy golf and only a totalitarian state would 'ban' it even in the interests of the environment.
But like many desireable things, it ain't gonna happen...

What is more likely to happen and therefore more worthy of discussion is whether or not this measure which affects not only golf but other activities will or will not harm revenue from tourism. Museum entrance prices haven't been subjected to such a swingeing increase which is good but presumably the higher rate covers attractions such as water parks and so on as well as sporting activities...


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## NickZ (Jun 26, 2009)

mrypg9 said:


> Why should golfers not be 'price sensitive'? Are you too suggesting they are all so wealthy that they will pay any price to be able to play in Spain rather than somewhere else with similar or better amenities and lower prices?
> ...



It was suggested golfers spend more money then other tourists. It's hard to argue they're spending a great deal of money then to say they'll run away because of the IVA increase.

The people most likely to be scared off by the IVA increase are those looking for a cheap visit. Not really the type spending a great deal of money is it?


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

NickZ said:


> It was suggested golfers spend more money then other tourists. It's hard to argue they're spending a great deal of money then to say they'll run away because of the IVA increase.
> 
> The people most likely to be scared off by the IVA increase are those looking for a cheap visit. Not really the type spending a great deal of money is it?


There is no evidence for that which is just a point of view based on the assumption that all golfers are wealthy. Even if that were true, there is 'wealthy' and 'wealthy'....and the fact that Bert might have more money than Fred doesn't imply automatically that Bert won't be price-sensitive.

I would imagine that golfers spend more money than other tourists based only on the fact that they spend a lot over a few days. I'm not poor but I'm not wealthy and if I were a golfer this price rise would most likely encourage me to look at other places to practise this to me rather boring sport.

The increase has been imposed on things other than golf and taken together it is very likely that they could have an effect on tourism.

Incidentally, I recently stumbled upon a rather tawdry and disgusting site when I was looking up attractions near Estepona. It is a site devoted to brothels and 'working girls' and advises 'punters' which are the best and the vfm places to find paid-for sex. 
It seems that sex'n'golf combinations are rather more popular than one might think -or at least relatively 'innocent' people like me
One poster described how he had deceived his wife with whom he was holidaying into thinking he was on the golf course when in fact he was enjoying another kind of physical activity in a Fuengirola bordello....


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