# Are we crazy?!



## Emmis

So, nomads that we've been for ages, we're starting to think, with two children, we should start doing something sensible like settling down. 

Now, for us "home", in our heads, has been Italy simply because I have familial roots there (my father's family all lives in Sicily), and we lived there a few years ago so our children feel it's home. They were little when we were there.

One big problem though is the question of schooling for our now 8, soon to be 9 year old, who has been following English speaking international education since she left Italy 2 years ago (basically after Scuola Materna), and also for our 5 year old, who's in the same situation.

Our elder child speaks Italian but doesn't read/write in it. Our little lad speaks some, understands everything, but also doesn't read or write in Italian (though he does in English).

Are we crazy thinking of putting our elder child into a regular Italian public school? She would be 9 at the time, going into quarta elementare.

I've asked this on another forum and people are positive about it, but now I'm also panicking because of the impending financial earthquake that seems to be slowly building up in the Bel Paese. Is this going to have an awful effect on schools as well?

Are we crazy, loopy-do, for thinking it's a good idea to move back to Italy? It would be sometime next year, probably in the summer after the school year ends here in Portugal.

Should we forget about it, break a segment of our hearts, but face reality, as the school situation may be too cruel on our kids? It's not simply a question of the foreign-ness - more an adjustment to that along with a different style of schooling (at the moment they are at a very forward thinking international school, with homework once a week + nightly reading). 



If anyone can offer any advice, suggestions, opinions.... or a list of mental institutions.... that would be awesome. 

Also there is a part of me that just wants to land down south in Sicily, have zii and cugini on the doorstep, but something tells me that dream will smack me in the face when, once again, real life wakes me up.

Apologies for the probably random nature of this thread, but I'd like more of an objective perspective, as all our friends/family are too involved. Sometimes an outsider can shine light on the matter in an all new way!

Thank you in advance! 

:decision:


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## Guest

Emmis said:


> So, nomads that we've been for ages, we're starting to think, with two children, we should start doing something sensible like settling down.
> 
> Now, for us "home", in our heads, has been Italy simply because I have familial roots there (my father's family all lives in Sicily), and we lived there a few years ago so our children feel it's home. They were little when we were there.
> 
> One big problem though is the question of schooling for our now 8, soon to be 9 year old, who has been following English speaking international education since she left Italy 2 years ago (basically after Scuola Materna), and also for our 5 year old, who's in the same situation.
> 
> Our elder child speaks Italian but doesn't read/write in it. Our little lad speaks some, understands everything, but also doesn't read or write in Italian (though he does in English).
> 
> Are we crazy thinking of putting our elder child into a regular Italian public school? She would be 9 at the time, going into quarta elementare.
> 
> I've asked this on another forum and people are positive about it, but now I'm also panicking because of the impending financial earthquake that seems to be slowly building up in the Bel Paese. Is this going to have an awful effect on schools as well?
> 
> Are we crazy, loopy-do, for thinking it's a good idea to move back to Italy? It would be sometime next year, probably in the summer after the school year ends here in Portugal.
> 
> Should we forget about it, break a segment of our hearts, but face reality, as the school situation may be too cruel on our kids? It's not simply a question of the foreign-ness - more an adjustment to that along with a different style of schooling (at the moment they are at a very forward thinking international school, with homework once a week + nightly reading).
> 
> 
> 
> If anyone can offer any advice, suggestions, opinions.... or a list of mental institutions.... that would be awesome.
> 
> Also there is a part of me that just wants to land down south in Sicily, have zii and cugini on the doorstep, but something tells me that dream will smack me in the face when, once again, real life wakes me up.
> 
> Apologies for the probably random nature of this thread, but I'd like more of an objective perspective, as all our friends/family are too involved. Sometimes an outsider can shine light on the matter in an all new way!
> 
> Thank you in advance!
> 
> :decision:


I think that what is important here is that they are both under 10, meaning that they should be able to adapt easier to a new school environment as opposed to an older teenager. They also both understand Italian and will already be able to interact and integrate quickly into the courses that they are are attending. I would recommend that, if possible, you help them a bit with reading and writing in Italian before they start school though.

I have a family friend who did the opposite - She moved from Italy to the UK at the age of 10, spoke no English at first but then after a year at an English school had learnt to read, write and speak confidently. Your kids already understand Italian and kids learn a language quickly before their teen years - I think that the first few months might be a bit tough but in the long term there shouldn't be any problems!

On the other hand, I have another friend who moved from Germany to the US at age 12 and her parents put her into a German school to ease the transition to English. The results were very good and speaks English fluently without a German accent and also maintained her German to the same level that she would have had in Germany. If you have concerns consider registering them in a UK or international school to ease the transition.

It all really comes down to your gut feeling and how you think your kids will thrive best I think!


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## sim0670

I am not sure I can help but we moved to Italy for what was supposed to be a year, 3 and half years later we are still here...can't seem to get away from the place.

Our son was nearly 3 when we arrived and we dropped him into the asilo speaking no Italian, only English. cruel parents we were!!!!!!!!

He is now at Elementary and he speaks and writes good Italian and English.

Not sure about the schools here, last year they had 2 full days and 3 half days. This year onl;y one full day was offered. The parents were up in arms but nothing more was offered.

I guess we will see how it goes for now..

Our son seems fine and has some great friends. I see no reason why you shouldn't move back.

Although with the current economic crisis here things could get worse.

I think Italy has to go through the pain barrier like Greece, Portugal, Ireland etc. Although most Italians I have spoke to think that they have been through a crisis..Ha!!!!!! ( what a laugh!! Crisis yeah right...some people do not know they are born, still taking their 1 month at the beach sitting on the most expensive sun beds money can buy, bridging every bank holiday on offer, no doubt taking a week at the Alps and still managing to buy the best meat and fish money can afford, like its a given right!

With the IVA up to 21%, ICI soon to return thanks to Sig. Monti and as for Benzina/ Gas olio Aghhhhhhhhhhh! need I say more.

But when things are bad and you think about returning to the UK. Just remind yourself about sitting in traffic breathing in petrol, eating meat and veg from 3000 miles around the other side of the world from Tesco. Watching crimes and murders on tv.
Its not that bad...................................................yet.


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## Emmis

sim0670 said:


> I am not sure I can help but we moved to Italy for what was supposed to be a year, 3 and half years later we are still here...can't seem to get away from the place.
> 
> Our son was nearly 3 when we arrived and we dropped him into the asilo speaking no Italian, only English. cruel parents we were!!!!!!!!
> 
> He is now at Elementary and he speaks and writes good Italian and English.
> 
> Not sure about the schools here, last year they had 2 full days and 3 half days. This year onl;y one full day was offered. The parents were up in arms but nothing more was offered.
> 
> I guess we will see how it goes for now..
> 
> Our son seems fine and has some great friends. I see no reason why you shouldn't move back.
> 
> Although with the current economic crisis here things could get worse.
> 
> I think Italy has to go through the pain barrier like Greece, Portugal, Ireland etc. Although most Italians I have spoke to think that they have been through a crisis..Ha!!!!!! ( what a laugh!! Crisis yeah right...some people do not know they are born, still taking their 1 month at the beach sitting on the most expensive sun beds money can buy, bridging every bank holiday on offer, no doubt taking a week at the Alps and still managing to buy the best meat and fish money can afford, like its a given right!
> 
> With the IVA up to 21%, ICI soon to return thanks to Sig. Monti and as for Benzina/ Gas olio Aghhhhhhhhhhh! need I say more.
> 
> But when things are bad and you think about returning to the UK. Just remind yourself about sitting in traffic breathing in petrol, eating meat and veg from 3000 miles around the other side of the world from Tesco. Watching crimes and murders on tv.
> Its not that bad...................................................yet.


Thanks for the message!

I couldn't move back to the UK. If we don't move to Italy, we'll probably move back to the Netherlands, Germany or France. The UK is wonderful to visit but I've truly embraced my Italian roots, and feel more European than British now. Does that sound pretentious? Hope not... but it is very true!

Anyway... I do digress...

Where do you guys live?

Would love to hear more! And tell it as it is!

We left 2 years ago so maybe in that time it's turned into a hellish place. Still, can't beat an Italian smile.


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## Emmis

DonPomodoro said:


> I think that what is important here is that they are both under 10, meaning that they should be able to adapt easier to a new school environment as opposed to an older teenager. They also both understand Italian and will already be able to interact and integrate quickly into the courses that they are are attending. I would recommend that, if possible, you help them a bit with reading and writing in Italian before they start school though.
> 
> I have a family friend who did the opposite - She moved from Italy to the UK at the age of 10, spoke no English at first but then after a year at an English school had learnt to read, write and speak confidently. Your kids already understand Italian and kids learn a language quickly before their teen years - I think that the first few months might be a bit tough but in the long term there shouldn't be any problems!
> 
> On the other hand, I have another friend who moved from Germany to the US at age 12 and her parents put her into a German school to ease the transition to English. The results were very good and speaks English fluently without a German accent and also maintained her German to the same level that she would have had in Germany. If you have concerns consider registering them in a UK or international school to ease the transition.
> 
> It all really comes down to your gut feeling and how you think your kids will thrive best I think!


Thank you for your comforting post Mr. Pomodoro! Where in Italy are you originally from and would you move back?

Now that Berlusconi has left, I'm not sure whether to whoop for joy, or cautiously clap. Perhaps we should keep looking over our shoulder as he may just be around the corner, waiting for the country to land in its most desperate situation ever, and then forget all the wrongdoing he caused, and vote him or his cronies back in.

Grrrrr.

Every country depends on its media but I honestly would like to hear people's real stories if they have any. If I were to believe everything I read I would believe Portugal was a hell hole, when in fact it's an amazing country with innovative people. The media just drags them down, and only aids in making a people's mental wellbeing, which can aid us through the hardest of times, deteriorate and worsen the state. 

Is this the case in Italy, or are people still lamenting but smiling their big Italian grins?

This all helps with our decision making. We can make a trillion trips to Sicily to see my family, or to Rome and Tuscany to see friends, but on holiday we're in a pink bubble and of course everyone wants us to move back, so things are always slightly rose tinted.

At the same time, I'm not sure I need to hear extreme gloom from those just desperate to get out, and looking for an excuse, blaming their own homesickness on Italy!! I've done it myself many a time, in many a country we've landed in, blaming everything on the country rather than admitting that the issue was my own! 

What do your family say about the changes in Italy Don Pomodoro? I see you're in Belgium. Do you go back to Italy much?

Anyway, thank you hugely for your help!


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## Guest

Emmis said:


> Thank you for your comforting post Mr. Pomodoro! Where in Italy are you originally from and would you move back?
> 
> Now that Berlusconi has left, I'm not sure whether to whoop for joy, or cautiously clap. Perhaps we should keep looking over our shoulder as he may just be around the corner, waiting for the country to land in its most desperate situation ever, and then forget all the wrongdoing he caused, and vote him or his cronies back in.
> 
> Grrrrr.
> 
> Every country depends on its media but I honestly would like to hear people's real stories if they have any. If I were to believe everything I read I would believe Portugal was a hell hole, when in fact it's an amazing country with innovative people. The media just drags them down, and only aids in making a people's mental wellbeing, which can aid us through the hardest of times, deteriorate and worsen the state.
> 
> Is this the case in Italy, or are people still lamenting but smiling their big Italian grins?
> 
> This all helps with our decision making. We can make a trillion trips to Sicily to see my family, or to Rome and Tuscany to see friends, but on holiday we're in a pink bubble and of course everyone wants us to move back, so things are always slightly rose tinted.
> 
> At the same time, I'm not sure I need to hear extreme gloom from those just desperate to get out, and looking for an excuse, blaming their own homesickness on Italy!! I've done it myself many a time, in many a country we've landed in, blaming everything on the country rather than admitting that the issue was my own!
> 
> What do your family say about the changes in Italy Don Pomodoro? I see you're in Belgium. Do you go back to Italy much?
> 
> Anyway, thank you hugely for your help!


Hi again!

I was a bit of a nomad growing up like you are now, having grown up in both Torino and Belgium. My mom is Italian, my dad is Belgian and I'm perfectly at home in both countries and hold both nationalities. 

Italy is a bad place to be right now if you a student or young person, but most older people that I know don't seem to realise that there is a crisis (yet?). Keep in mind that I am speaking from the perspective of someone whose family lives in Torino and Milan, the strongest areas economically of Italy. 

I plan to stay in Belgium for the near future at least since it is very hard for someone my age to really get a firm footing and start to build a career in Italy. When I am older and more experienced I might look into moving back. For the moment though I try to visit about a month each year and that works for me!

Sicily, Rome and Tuscany are certainly lovely as a tourist, but the economy isn't so great in these areas. I think I read once that Tuscany has the highest rate of emigration after Calabria, for example. Most of my friends and family have moved to Milan, Torino or abroad in order to find jobs. I know lots of Italian professors who have moved to London or Canada and they are doing work at the age of 35-40 that someone in Italy would only be doing once they hit 60+. This same "seniority rule" applies to lots of fields (Just look at how old most Italian politicians are!). Finding a job in some areas can still very much depend more on who you know rather than what you know in addition to this reverse age discrimination that is going on. Compare that to the UK where people are sometimes forced to retire at 65 or whatever - I have never heard of anything like that in Italy and 65 is when you hit your peak!

In terms of changes, everyone that I know was happy to see Berlusconi gone, but he's still lurking around and has threatened to bring down the new government if his party doesn't like what they do...I don't think that he will ever retire from politics since the moment he does he will have to actually face all of his legal trouble. Even people I know who agreed with his politics couldn't defend him anymore due to all of the scandals.

Overall, I don't really know what to tell you. If you are happy where you are for the moment and have a job that you like, I would probably advise to only move if you have a job waiting for you or to wait a year or so at least to see what will happen in Italy and the Eurozone as a whole. I don't think that there is a lot of work in Tuscany or Rome at the moment, but I have no idea about Sicily. Ask your family for advice

Best of luck!


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## phlipineck

Although our kids were much younger - we have seen a few expats and their kids....in my opinion the magic age is 11...prior to that they pick up the language and adapt really quickly, they will help them with extra language lessons.After that they seem to miss the UK and their friends/culture. For us more of a problem is the standard of schooling - it varies enormously and in our case hasn't got the breadth of a UK education. You have a big advantage having family and roots in Italy....live close to them, they will know the local ropes

Phil



Emmis said:


> So, nomads that we've been for ages, we're starting to think, with two children, we should start doing something sensible like settling down.
> 
> Now, for us "home", in our heads, has been Italy simply because I have familial roots there (my father's family all lives in Sicily), and we lived there a few years ago so our children feel it's home. They were little when we were there.
> 
> One big problem though is the question of schooling for our now 8, soon to be 9 year old, who has been following English speaking international education since she left Italy 2 years ago (basically after Scuola Materna), and also for our 5 year old, who's in the same situation.
> 
> Our elder child speaks Italian but doesn't read/write in it. Our little lad speaks some, understands everything, but also doesn't read or write in Italian (though he does in English).
> 
> Are we crazy thinking of putting our elder child into a regular Italian public school? She would be 9 at the time, going into quarta elementare.
> 
> I've asked this on another forum and people are positive about it, but now I'm also panicking because of the impending financial earthquake that seems to be slowly building up in the Bel Paese. Is this going to have an awful effect on schools as well?
> 
> Are we crazy, loopy-do, for thinking it's a good idea to move back to Italy? It would be sometime next year, probably in the summer after the school year ends here in Portugal.
> 
> Should we forget about it, break a segment of our hearts, but face reality, as the school situation may be too cruel on our kids? It's not simply a question of the foreign-ness - more an adjustment to that along with a different style of schooling (at the moment they are at a very forward thinking international school, with homework once a week + nightly reading).
> 
> 
> 
> If anyone can offer any advice, suggestions, opinions.... or a list of mental institutions.... that would be awesome.
> 
> Also there is a part of me that just wants to land down south in Sicily, have zii and cugini on the doorstep, but something tells me that dream will smack me in the face when, once again, real life wakes me up.
> 
> Apologies for the probably random nature of this thread, but I'd like more of an objective perspective, as all our friends/family are too involved. Sometimes an outsider can shine light on the matter in an all new way!
> 
> Thank you in advance!
> 
> :decision:


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## PPeters

If you have the family ties which spread far and deep enough into society's fabric, let's say, a small village with borderline inbreeding tendencies, then go for it. 
If you don't have such level of biologically determined socio-economic support then try to leave this Kafka novel as fast as humanly possible. 
Italy as a whole still needs to reprogram from 17, nay 92, nay 151 years of manipulation. That is not going to be resolved overnight.

Either way, good luck
Paul


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## Emmis

PPeters said:


> If you have the family ties which spread far and deep enough into society's fabric, let's say, a small village with borderline inbreeding tendencies, then go for it.
> If you don't have such level of biologically determined socio-economic support then try to leave this Kafka novel as fast as humanly possible.
> Italy as a whole still needs to reprogram from 17, nay 92, nay 151 years of manipulation. That is not going to be resolved overnight.
> 
> Either way, good luck
> Paul


Well I suppose that answered my own comment, "Sometimes an outsider can shine light on the matter in an all new way!"


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## tokyonights7

I am sure your children will be able to adapt. At first, they might find the adjustment difficult, but they are young enough to immerse themselves completely in Italian culture, especially if they already have the spoken language behind them, and familiar roots in Sicily. I would say go for it, if it is your dream!


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## sim0670

Emmis said:


> Thanks for the message!
> 
> I couldn't move back to the UK. If we don't move to Italy, we'll probably move back to the Netherlands, Germany or France. The UK is wonderful to visit but I've truly embraced my Italian roots, and feel more European than British now. Does that sound pretentious? Hope not... but it is very true!
> 
> Anyway... I do digress...
> 
> Where do you guys live?
> 
> Would love to hear more! And tell it as it is!
> 
> We left 2 years ago so maybe in that time it's turned into a hellish place. Still, can't beat an Italian smile.



Just a quickie, did you return to italy or are you still floating around europe?

We hanging on here, but for how long not sure. We are still none decided!


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