# American about to apply to UK for University: School Visa help!



## expathopeful (Jan 18, 2011)

I and my husband are soon to be applying to schools in the UK. We have found by simple internet search that a student visa allows 20 hours legal work, is that correct. Also, if one of us decides to wait on school, I heard that a student visa allows a spousal visa with 40 hours work, is that true?
Also, we have some money so school will be paid and enough money to pay in advance for rental property, so really willing to do any menial work at all. I know that UK is suffering from lack of work, yet I see that many Western Europeans are brought in at growing seasons to pick fruit etc. I would be willing to do such work, though I might be a PHD candidate, I would not be too proud to pick fruit, wash dishes, anything. 
What do we have to look forward to as far as difficulty in getting our student visa's. Thank you for any and all help.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

expathopeful said:


> I and my husband are soon to be applying to schools in the UK. We have found by simple internet search that a student visa allows 20 hours legal work, is that correct. Also, if one of us decides to wait on school, I heard that a student visa allows a spousal visa with 40 hours work, is that true?
> Also, we have some money so school will be paid and enough money to pay in advance for rental property, so really willing to do any menial work at all. I know that UK is suffering from lack of work, yet I see that many Western Europeans are brought in at growing seasons to pick fruit etc. I would be willing to do such work, though I might be a PHD candidate, I would not be too proud to pick fruit, wash dishes, anything.
> What do we have to look forward to as far as difficulty in getting our student visa's. Thank you for any and all help.


Just remember that work privileges attached to certain study visas are only meant to supplement your finance - just earning pocket money really, and can't be used to demonstrate your financial ability to pay all your expenses of studying and living in UK. So, for example, if you need £10,000 a year to study in UK (on top of paying your tuition fees), you can't say that you have £6,000 and other £4,000 you are hoping to earn through part-time work or spouse working to support you. All such projected income will be disregarded by British consulate when working out your financial ability.


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## expathopeful (Jan 18, 2011)

If I can demonstrate having the money to pay for one year of school as well as one year of living (rent/food/etc) then will it be acceptable? The work will quite literally BE pocket money. I will of course use it to help pay for food and supplement rent so as not to completely deplete my savings, but I should have the savings to show one years ability to pay for school and live on it, does that help?


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

expathopeful said:


> If I can demonstrate having the money to pay for one year of school as well as one year of living (rent/food/etc) then will it be acceptable? The work will quite literally BE pocket money. I will of course use it to help pay for food and supplement rent so as not to completely deplete my savings, but I should have the savings to show one years ability to pay for school and live on it, does that help?


How long is the course for? If the course is, say, for three years, then you will get a visa to cover your entire stay and they will want evidence of how you are going to finance your stay and study for the whole period, not just one year, e.g. from your parents, scholarships, investment income etc.


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## expathopeful (Jan 18, 2011)

Well the program I was looking at was about 9000 Uk pounds a year (not counting living costs) for three years so about 15000 us dollars making the school around 45000 for the three years. I can cover that, now how much, do you think I need to have in savings to prove the ability to live in the country for three years?


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

expathopeful said:


> Well the program I was looking at was about 9000 Uk pounds a year (not counting living costs) for three years so about 15000 us dollars making the school around 45000 for the three years. I can cover that, now how much, do you think I need to have in savings to prove the ability to live in the country for three years?


There is a guideline for that, at UK Border Agency | How much money do you need?
and click 'Bringing your family' on the left for amount of money you need for each family member.
While it states they only need evidence for one year, but if the source of your funding is your own - savings and investments - they will want to know how you intend to finance your studies for the entire course. In case of externally-funded students, such as those on government scholarship, it's assumed fresh funding will be made available for each of the subsequent years they are studying in UK.


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## Crawford (Jan 23, 2011)

Where in the UK is this course you are looking at?

This will greatly influence how much you are going to need for the three years in the UK. 

If in London or the South East expect to bring a lot of revenue if you are only expecting to earn 'Pocket money"


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## expathopeful (Jan 18, 2011)

I am looking at a degree from the University of Plymouth. I do intend to have money to afford rent for the years as well as educational costs. My pocket money will 'add to and help' rent only so I can attempt to maintain some of the capital of my savings I will be using to go there, if that makes any sense. 
I was happy to see that the minimum wage there is more than in most states here in the USA (including my own state of MA which has an 8.25 rate while some states have less than 5.00 american which is like 2 uk bounds!) Even as a dishwasher there I could make more than a Starbucks Barista over here 
Does anyone know if U of Plymouth is good or a well received degree in the job market?


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## expathopeful (Jan 18, 2011)

oh, and the program may be applied bioscience ( a combo of agriculture and Environmental sciences) and possibly a minor in History. They have absorbed the Seal Hayne Agricultural school and I really want to focus on new farming/bioscience/and agricultural history.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

expathopeful said:


> oh, and the program may be applied bioscience ( a combo of agriculture and Environmental sciences) and possibly a minor in History. They have absorbed the Seal Hayne Agricultural school and I really want to focus on new farming/bioscience/and agricultural history.


When are you hoping to start? Home tuition fee for the coming AY 2011-12 is £3,375, but from next year it's said to rise to £6,000 to £9,000. International (overseas) student fee at Plymouth is £9,104 now, but will probably rise next year to reflect much increased home student fees. As each uni sets its own fees, no figures are available but I can see them rising to £12,000 to £15,000 ($19,400 to 24,300) or more.


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## Crawford (Jan 23, 2011)

Plymouth University is one of the 'newer' Universities, having been a Polytechnic (Technical college) until 1992, when it was incorporated into the University system.

So its not an Ivy League or, as some are called in the UK, a RedBrick University.

I can't tell you too much about it - look at its Website for this - but it does seem to concentrate on Marine, Health and Eco type of courses.

It IS in a lovely part of the UK - the South West. This might make it pricey for accommodation. Great if you like living by the coast.

By the way, a Starbucks Barista is still a much nicer job, even at a lower minimum wage, than a dishwasher in the UK


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## expathopeful (Jan 18, 2011)

I was only kidding about the Barista, but hey, I am willing to roll up my sleeves and do what needs to be done.
That is scary about the fee increase. As of my last letter and contact with the university, the fee for overseas student was about 9500, I hope it doesn't go up too much, but still cheaper than US universities and not even the ivy league. 
Will it be bad to get a degree from a newer school and NOT from a Red Brick university? Should I consider that instead? 
I currently live on the coast now in Eastern Coastal USA (Massachusetts, Cape Cod to be exact, we are biking distance from the ocean and the water has always been a part of my life. One of the reasons I am drawn to the SW area of UK)
Are there any Redbrick universities in that area? I actually thought of Cambridge, but felt as an older student (30s) would not even be considered.


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## expathopeful (Jan 18, 2011)

OH, and I have been a Barista here and I DID have to wash dishes too


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

expathopeful said:


> I was only kidding about the Barista, but hey, I am willing to roll up my sleeves and do what needs to be done.
> That is scary about the fee increase. As of my last letter and contact with the university, the fee for overseas student was about 9500, I hope it doesn't go up too much, but still cheaper than US universities and not even the ivy league.
> Will it be bad to get a degree from a newer school and NOT from a Red Brick university? Should I consider that instead?
> I currently live on the coast now in Eastern Coastal USA (Massachusetts, Cape Cod to be exact, we are biking distance from the ocean and the water has always been a part of my life. One of the reasons I am drawn to the SW area of UK)
> Are there any Redbrick universities in that area? I actually thought of Cambridge, but felt as an older student (30s) would not even be considered.


Exeter (also in Devon) and Bristol are in the top ten unis in UK - well-established, great reputations, high standards of teaching and research. You normally need high grades to get a place at either (only just lower than Oxford or Cambridge), but as overseas students bringing in lots in fees, they can be 'flexible'! They both expect to charge £9,000 to home students next year, so expect their overseas fees to be high as well.


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## Crawford (Jan 23, 2011)

Agree ..... Exeter and Bristol both very good Universities.

Don't get me wrong ...... Plymouth University is probably a good school, its just not as "old" as the others.


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## expathopeful (Jan 18, 2011)

Thanks for the tip, I just looked up Exeter and as of now their international fees are around 14000 pounds. So hopefully that won't go up by next year. I am not sure if I have enough time to apply for this Autumn.
Do you know if one can apply for a January entrance (here in the USA it is in semesters so it would be considered the winter semester, but not sure how it works in the UK)
Thank you for your help so far. 
I also see Exeter has a school near Falmouth as well, not sure if that branch deals more with the agri/environmental course I am considering.
Would I be not as desired in the employment realm with a degree from Plymouth?


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

expathopeful said:


> Thanks for the tip, I just looked up Exeter and as of now their international fees are around 14000 pounds. So hopefully that won't go up by next year. I am not sure if I have enough time to apply for this Autumn.
> Do you know if one can apply for a January entrance (here in the USA it is in semesters so it would be considered the winter semester, but not sure how it works in the UK)
> Thank you for your help so far.
> I also see Exeter has a school near Falmouth as well, not sure if that branch deals more with the agri/environmental course I am considering.
> Would I be not as desired in the employment realm with a degree from Plymouth?


It's rare to have a degree course that starts at any other time than September, though some part-time or flexi courses can have multiple start points (but you will find it difficult to get a visa to attend those).
If it's a choice between a degree from Plymouth or Exeter, Exeter wins hands down, though some specialist Plymouth courses may be well regarded by industry (I don't know the sector you're in).


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## Crawford (Jan 23, 2011)

Sorry if I appear to be nosey, but I am wondering, if you are still investigating schools, whether you have finally worked out how much living in the UK - without paying full time jobs - is going to cost you?

The school fees alone are going to approx 45k US dollars (that's at the low end) for the three years you are contemplating so what about living costs?

Looking at some websites I would say that the following costs are not out of the ordinary for two people:

One bedroom flat rental: 500 UK pounds per month; 
Electricity/gas: 80 UK Pounds per month
Food: 200 UK pounds per month

By my reckoning - doing the conversion to dollars with a generalised 1.5 ratio - that comes to something over 14K US dollars per year which makes another 42K dollars over three years.

So, take the tuition fees plus these immediate costs, and that's nearly 90K US dollars for the three years - and that is without any additional costs such as a car, petrol, clothing/entertainment/council tax/water bills/insurance/furniture costs.

Please don't underestimate how much this move will cost you - and there is no guarantee that this new degree will provide a job in the UK or Europe ( I have looked at your other posts in the French section and you have a big desire to live in Europe)


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## expathopeful (Jan 18, 2011)

Yes a VERY big desire.
I came up with about the same number. The school fees are correct for three years. We are now considering maybe just one of us doing higher education as we may still be eligible fore spousal student visa (as long as that remains in tact for 2012/13 as per my latest email from a university official).
We also found the point system has you figure 600 pounds a month for 10 months (not sure why not the whole year, but hey I will take it) to add up for the three years.
We realize it will be close to 100,000 us dollars. We, luckily, have worked very hard and have two homes. The second was bought luckily when divorced friends wanted to unload before the big real estate boom in our country. 
We should, with the sale of these homes, have enough to cover that with a good amount of 'padding' and as I said, I am willing to do any labor.
Some people asked why I should give up luxury to be a dishwasher in the UK. I love the country that much. 
When I was there back in the 90's I never felt more at home in my life. I always imagined I'd go back and marry a UK citizen, but I met my hubby (American like me-similar family and backgrounds you know how it is) and that dreamed died. But, we both always planned on retiring to the South of France when we were older.
Now, however, our concept of what the world will be is based on an old model we feel is moving away with Oil and the eventual reevaluation the world shall have to make as fossil fuels decrease and Global warming/climate change increase.
I would rather, than, work towards a solution to these world problems, feel I can be part of that, and rather do it in the UK where I feel there is a good chance to make a better future. It would be easy to put my blinders on and take advantage of the low costs NOW available in my country for everything, but we want a life of value and that value is the good of man and our future. 
My goal of wanting to work with various land/agricultural solutions and now Hubby's plan on higher education in Engineering and such solutions may mean we don't live 'as well' but we will live better. I want to be part of a solution and not a problem. And I want my solution to happen in the UK/EU.
I don't know, in the end, if they will have us, but it won't be for want of trying and and honest to goodness desire and respect for the country, it's traditions and hopefully its better future.


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## Crawford (Jan 23, 2011)

I would say that you are looking at MORE than 100K dollars for the three years stay.

Just want you to be realistic.


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## expathopeful (Jan 18, 2011)

But I figure some of that money (though we have enough to show more) will actually be earned by me and hubby. Especially if I get the spousal visa which allows me to work 40hrs a week. With 60 hrs a week (mine and hubby's combined) we can easily afford rent.
As part of our lifestyle change over the past years we already live VERY frugally. I shop once a week and make almost all of our food from scratch (much cheaper). We have even gone so far as to not use heat in the house but wear more layers, we NEVER go out to dinner anymore or spend any 'entertaining' money (all for savings) and we are down to one car (as he needs to drive 30 minutes away to work) while I use my bike or my legs. We can live VERY frugally and I have already found affordable houses for rent in the area the universities are that we are looking at. So, I think 100k will be enough to show the UK, plus we will of course have more and we will try very hard to supplement our ACTUAL living with whatever we can earn at minimum wage.


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## Crawford (Jan 23, 2011)

...... and what happens if you don't get jobs? Even minimum wage part time ones? 

There are thousands of people out of work in the UK and Europe at the moment; what makes you think that YOU are going to get the waiter, dishwashing jobs etc that others are currently looking for. The last time I was in the UK (last year) there seemed to be countless Polish, Eastern European, Greek - you name it- looking to fill these jobs.

You say that with 60 hours of work a week you can easily afford rent on the minimum wage, but there is more to living in the UK than just rent.

However, you seem to have your mind made up about getting to Europe so good luck to you.


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## expathopeful (Jan 18, 2011)

Luckily, if all else fails, and I realize it might, we can always return to our own country. 
But those people who do NOT have choices manage to make it. In many ways we feel we don't really have a choice we can live with happily in our own country.
The one guarantee to failure is never trying. If I let 'if' rule my life then it will come to haunt me at it's end: "What if I did this" can be a sad thing to say at the end of one's life.
In my own country we have incredible amounts of unemployment. It is on the news and in the papers, yet I see many people (even people from other countries) working jobs as bank tellers, in cafe's etc. I think, if one wants to, there can always be work to find. In our country it seems in many cases some of those out of work won't settle for something that is not in their career path. I have no problem washing dishes or picking fruit. If that job is not available, then anytime we want, we can simply come back to the USA. But, that would be our last resort.
I am not sure why an expatriate forum seems to be more about all the bad things yet none of what might be good in a persons immigrating. 
I won't give up without trying, that is for sure. 
My husband and my ancestors left a country they no longer could feel was representing how they wanted to live. They knew they could not change that country and so came to a strange place with so MANY if's. Of course, I wish they hadn't as then we would still be British citizens. But their drive, their need to go to a place and do what they had to do to survive because they knew in their hearts it was the right thing to do, that seems to be in our blood in some way. Perhaps we are being fools or romantic, but I should rather fail a million times trying at something I am passionate about then to simply sit back and enjoy the luxury of my own failings.


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## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

expathopeful said:


> I am not sure why an expatriate forum seems to be more about all the bad things yet none of what might be good in a persons immigrating.
> I won't give up without trying, that is for sure.


Kudos to you for the determination. But to answer your question on why all the "gloom and doom" here - I think those of us who have been expats for a long time all know or know of cases of expat wannabees that have gone horribly, horribly wrong for one reason or another.

In most cases, the problem was there from the start but just got aggravated with the big move to another country. There are folks who are "stuck" in their country of choice without resources, friends or family and that's a pretty difficult situation. There are others who are simply massively disappointed with life outside their home country - the laws are different, the society and customs don't conform to how they know things, the food can be very different and the work rules in particular make the notion of "career" considerably different than what they expected.

We do tend to be on the "down" side of making the big move, but it's only to try and protect people from what they are likely to encounter when they do make their decisions. You were disappointed that the visa rules seem so "unfair" - but there is (legal) discrimination against hiring those without the proper visas and (not legal but kind of normal) discrimination against hiring foreigners when local people with similar qualifications are out of work. It's part of the expat package and you either learn to deal with it or you go back home. (And returning "home" after even a year or two abroad can be as difficult an experience as the initial move was.)
Cheers,
Bev


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## expathopeful (Jan 18, 2011)

Thanks for the heads up. I have, however, lived in UK and EU before. I lived almost a year in Paris. I already feel OUT OF PLACE in my own country.
IN many ways I feel the past 10 years of my life has just been me slowly realizing how much I actually do miss it over there and how much more I felt at home when I was there. In my own family we do many more "British" customs than we do American (Christmas pudding and crackers as a funny example)
Here, on the Cape, we have an ever increasing Brazilian immigration situation. Many people complain about the 'amount of those people' and I hear talk all the time about unemployment and how people can't find jobs. Then I go to places, including my local bank, and it is mainly run and staffed by Brazilians. Here are people VERY far from their home land, climate and attitudes SO different and yet they have managed to find jobs and really become a part of the community. We now have some Brazilian grocery stores and bakeries. One of our most busy and well known downtown restaurants now is a Brazilian Grill started by one of the earlier settlers and of course peopled by other expats as well as Americans on the staff. I see others around me doing this.
Then I think of the person on here who she came from Ireland. And though she said, "If I had a choice I wouldn't have worked for $3 an hour in the snow and cold" yet, she did have a choice. Her desire to be in this country was such that she did do it, eventually bought a business and homes and made a life here. True she is now moving to France, but It just seems there should be a balance of what works as well as what 'could go wrong'.
For example she lived illegally in NYC for 2 years! Hardly an advice to give, yet she did it as well as people do it all the time. I am certain right now there are probably many illegal aliens in UK, some of whom may be Americans. Yet, they become members of their community, begin to provide services that do deem them special to have and eventually work their way into legal status by getting a job from a UK boss who can apply for their work visa. They buy a house or a business and life goes on.
I recently found out that you can start a business in UK with 200,000 pounds (before I thought you needed one million to be considered an entrepreneur) so that is even an option. I have been a business owner here in the states, owning and running a flower shop/florist/wedding business in one of our more well known areas of the Cape.
So, there are many options open to me. I guess I just figured this place would be about celebrating the expat life, and maybe I need to look for those threads. But, I am bound and determined to go and now I am fairly certain to be heading out of here next Spring, hopefully. I might even take a 3 or 4 month trip this summer, just to check out some schools, some areas and get a feel for it.
Thank you all for your cautionary tales, even though it doesn't seem like it, I have been listening.


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## expathopeful (Jan 18, 2011)

I thought I would add this latest article on the plans of the UK government and stricter school visas. It seems it is not very popular and there may be hope of it not happening after all. IT also seems in spite of the stricter restrictions thus far, immigration has actually increased. 
worth a read for any concerned:
BBC - Mark Easton's UK: Student visa plans could 'cripple' UK education


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## Johanna (Apr 13, 2009)

I hope your plans work out. At £5.93 per hour ( minimum wage ) it will be a struggle!

Carpe diem!


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## expathopeful (Jan 18, 2011)

Thank you johanna. I know it will be a struggle and I am going with my eyes open. I will have savings to fall back on. We are going to plan on treating it as if we cannot make one penny for the whole three years we are there and have that much money with us. Then, anything we can earn at minimum wage (which is better than the min wage in the USA by the way!) will be pocket money. Of course, if one of us puts off school for a year had has a spousal visa for 40 hours, then hopefully that will help. 
Does anyone know how taxes come out of the minimum wage? In the states, we have taxes taken out so your real per hour rate is even lower. On a student spousal work visa, what taxes would be removed from that minimum, does anyone know?


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Curb on student visas has just been announced by Home Secretary. It looks worse than I have feared.
See Major changes to student visa system | Home Office


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## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

expathopeful said:


> Does anyone know how taxes come out of the minimum wage? In the states, we have taxes taken out so your real per hour rate is even lower. On a student spousal work visa, what taxes would be removed from that minimum, does anyone know?


It works pretty much the same way in the UK. There they have PAYE (pay as you earn) which is similar to the US withholding system, but if I understand it correctly, you may not have to file a tax declaration at the end of the year if you've already paid your taxes through withholdings.

The big thing to be careful of is that you will still be liable to file (and if necessary pay) US income taxes. At a minimum you have to declare your worldwide income (including a minimum wage job) to the IRS and then apply the various exclusions, credits and what have you. It's all made a bit more complicated by the fact that the UK tax year runs from April 5th to April 4th rather than on a calendar year.
Cheers,
Bev


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## expathopeful (Jan 18, 2011)

Wow, that new post about the new changes...I just cried. I cannot believe that literally the year my plan to move to the UK is when suddenly all the routes open to me and hubby as students are now closed! I am so angry. I know, it isn't right to be angry at rules to regulate, but I feel like we would have been an actual contribution to the UK and would eventually have lead to even possibly providing jobs to UK residents and who knows what else. 
I have never felt more unwanted as an American than I do right now.
I think I may have to go cry a little more.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

expathopeful said:


> Wow, that new post about the new changes...I just cried. I cannot believe that literally the year my plan to move to the UK is when suddenly all the routes open to me and hubby as students are now closed! I am so angry. I know, it isn't right to be angry at rules to regulate, but I feel like we would have been an actual contribution to the UK and would eventually have lead to even possibly providing jobs to UK residents and who knows what else.
> I have never felt more unwanted as an American than I do right now.
> I think I may have to go cry a little more.


Think about getting a Tier 1 Entrepreneur visa, details of which I have added to a thread about someone opening a shop in London.


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## expathopeful (Jan 18, 2011)

Someone else said a tier 1 is only for famous people or professors? Is that not true?


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

expathopeful said:


> Someone else said a tier 1 is only for famous people or professors? Is that not true?


They are retaining investor visa (£1 million plus) and entrepreneur (£200k plus). Go to the points calculator to see if you qualify.
Points-based system Tier 1 (Entrepreneur) - visa application guide
Points calculator is on right-side menu


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## expathopeful (Jan 18, 2011)

Thank you. My only issue, is I am not sure I want to start a business right off the bat, I wanted to settle in, get to know a community etc. I am not sure now what I will do. I think I will just keep in contact with the schools I am applying to and see if they can continue to help in the school visa area. 
It just will be harder if we will not be allowed to work AT ALL with a school visa, I mean not even 20 hours a week, which is what the new system seems to be about.
Why are they suddenly so strict? Is there a real issue with immigration now, or I wonder if this is prep for peak oil when food becomes insanely expensive and needs to be produced more locally, and there are probably already more people there than could be sustained from just the UK shores, who knows?
Frustration here I come. I love my husband, but my how easy it would have been to simply marry a UK man, silly I know.


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## Johanna (Apr 13, 2009)

The reason may be the whole economic crisis that started in 2008 and is now just worsening because of the happenings in the Mid East. Japan's problems do not seem to affect world economy so much. Unemployment is a major problem world wide, graduates suffer as much as any other person. Seems as if tertiary education does not guarantee a job at all.


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## expathopeful (Jan 18, 2011)

That's for certain. I just wish I could believe in my own country more, but honestly the things that are happening here.
We even have some sad things with Coke Nestle literally STEALING water from states. Going into Maine and Michigan and literally draining their water supply, paying no taxes to the state and taking the water out of the state into other's and overseas to sell it! That is some scary stuff when even your water supply, prioity number one for survival, is up for grabs. And I heard the Bush family (both past presidents) are buying up 100's of thousands of cares in Brazil as it is the worlds largest fresh water aquafer. Water is going to be the new OIL. 
There are so many sanctions in farming that small farmers are all but gone and those that remain are simply under contracts to grow animals in awful unhealthy and cruel conditions. They are REQUIRED by the FDA to have certain barns and machines that puts them into DEBT to the big companies. For example one poultry farmer, who had to upgrade to new metal barns with NO windows and less ventilation to hold MORE chickens and it cost him $400,000.00 That require him to get a loan through the corporation that processes it (this time Tyson) and the farmer makes under $20,000 a year!
We have under 1% of the population in our country as farmers!
And the list goes on, our car companies, the oil companies, our 'freedom war' which is so obviously an oil war yet a vast majority of Americans believe it is for 'freedom' though we have less and less of it. 
I know this is all moot points on a thread about the UK, but one can see why you would want to simply get out. 
Perhaps I shall start looking at the more open Western European countries, if they are more open. 
It is so frustrating. 
And our own immigration is a joke and also unfair. Our local farm has some great Jamaican workers (my niece is the Barn/Animal Manager there) and they have lost a few due to stricter regulations over the past two years. Now mind you, the farmer does not hire them because they are cheaper (he pays above our minimum wage which is a joke already) but because all the local people who are 'so desperate for work' wouldn't dream of being a farm laborer. 
Really, where is our world going? 
Any positive news about hopeful expatriating out there?


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## expathopeful (Jan 18, 2011)

I realize my last post has little to do with expating to Uk so feel free to delete. Sorry.


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## Johanna (Apr 13, 2009)

expathopeful said:


> That's for certain. I just wish I could believe in my own country more, but honestly the things that are happening here.
> We even have some sad things with Coke Nestle literally STEALING water from states. Going into Maine and Michigan and literally draining their water supply, paying no taxes to the state and taking the water out of the state into other's and overseas to sell it! That is some scary stuff when even your water supply, prioity number one for survival, is up for grabs. And I heard the Bush family (both past presidents) are buying up 100's of thousands of cares in Brazil as it is the worlds largest fresh water aquafer. Water is going to be the new OIL.
> There are so many sanctions in farming that small farmers are all but gone and those that remain are simply under contracts to grow animals in awful unhealthy and cruel conditions. They are REQUIRED by the FDA to have certain barns and machines that puts them into DEBT to the big companies. For example one poultry farmer, who had to upgrade to new metal barns with NO windows and less ventilation to hold MORE chickens and it cost him $400,000.00 That require him to get a loan through the corporation that processes it (this time Tyson) and the farmer makes under $20,000 a year!
> We have under 1% of the population in our country as farmers!
> ...


Let us not hi-jack the thread here!
:focus:


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## expathopeful (Jan 18, 2011)

Yeah, I know sorry. I think I better just get off this forum for awhile it is only depressing me. Thank you for your kind help, though, it is appreciated.


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## AnneGreen (Feb 13, 2013)

Expathopeful....what ever happened? I was following your post about living in France that turned to UK. I am in a similar place as you and wondered if we could chat privately or on here even.
just feeling out whether you are still on this.


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