# Right to travel with Temp Residency/Retirement visa



## cortesinv (Jan 5, 2011)

If one acquires a one year temporary residency permit or a retirement residency can they travel in other EU countries without the 90 day in six month stipulation?


----------



## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

cortesinv said:


> If one acquires a one year temporary residency permit or a retirement residency can they travel in other EU countries without the 90 day in six month stipulation?


No. You are still subject to 90-in-180 days rule in other Schengen countries (not the same as EU states; UK and Ireland, for example, aren't part of Schengen but non-EU Norway, Iceland and Switzerland are), at least in theory. In practice, though, most officials are happy to see a long-stay visa (Schengen D-type) and unlikely to question you further. What would happen should you fall ill or have an accident and your overstay come to their notice, I'm not so sure, and you may expect complications. Any insurance or health plan you travel under may not be valid, for example.
The only way you can avoid the Schengen rule altogether is through becoming a citizen of an EU/EEA country or Switzerland.


----------



## cortesinv (Jan 5, 2011)

Joppa said:


> No. You are still subject to 90-in-180 days rule in other Schengen countries (not the same as EU states; UK and Ireland, for example, aren't part of Schengen but non-EU Norway, Iceland and Switzerland are), at least in theory. In practice, though, most officials are happy to see a long-stay visa (Schengen D-type) and unlikely to question you further. What would happen should you fall ill or have an accident and your overstay come to their notice, I'm not so sure, and you may expect complications. Any insurance or health plan you travel under may not be valid, for example.
> The only way you can avoid the Schengen rule altogether is through becoming a citizen of an EU/EEA country or Switzerland.


Thanks Joppa.

Strange that there is no way for someone who wishes to spend a considerable amount of money traveling in EU countries for 6 months...

I got this from a friend in Horta, Azores "If you arrive in Horta during your initial 3 month period you can immediately apply for an 'extended tourist resident visa' for a further 3 months stay in Portugal". I suppose if I did that near the end of my 90 day allotment and left the Schengen area from Portugal I might be OK. But as Portugal is a Schengen country, I would be technically in violation once the 91st day passed.

Any comment on that idea?


----------



## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

cortesinv said:


> Thanks Joppa.
> 
> Strange that there is no way for someone who wishes to spend a considerable amount of money traveling in EU countries for 6 months...
> 
> ...


I don't know the source of your friend's assertion, but Schengen 90-in-180 days' stay isn't renewable, and all national tourist visa within Schengen zone has been abolished and only Schengen visa is issued (i.e. there is now a common policy on short-term visitor stay throughout Schengen). The only national visa, such as the one valid solely for Portugal, is for non-tourist stay such as work, study or settlement (e.g. being married to a Portuguese national) - called type D Schengen.
It's possible that your friend is referring to a situation prior to Portugal's entry into Schengen Agreement in 1997.


----------



## cortesinv (Jan 5, 2011)

Joppa said:


> I don't know the source of your friend's assertion, but Schengen 90-in-180 days' stay isn't renewable, and all national tourist visa within Schengen zone has been abolished and only Schengen visa is issued (i.e. there is now a common policy on short-term visitor stay throughout Schengen). The only national visa, such as the one valid solely for Portugal, is for non-tourist stay such as work, study or settlement (e.g. being married to a Portuguese national) - called type D Schengen.
> It's possible that your friend is referring to a situation prior to Portugal's entry into Schengen Agreement in 1997.


Thanks Joppa,

That was a result of a visit to the office of foreign affairs in Horta, Azores, Two days ago....it is obvious there is much misinformation being offered, even from official offices (not that I don't know that, living in Panama!).

Both Spain and Portugal offer temporary/permanent residency/retirement permits. What if I had both....how does Schengen rules view that? You obviously know much of this law and I do not dispute anything you have said to date, but is there a way to contact the authorities that control this law for clarification? If I have two permissions for each country for one year, how does my Schengen allocations work if I want to go to other countries?

I have searched Schengen D visa and it is confusing as to reference to having both "D" and national visa's....when one follows another, etc.

I much appreciate your posts, being the only intelligent response in weeks to my desire to spend 6 plus months in the EU....


----------



## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

cortesinv said:


> Thanks Joppa,
> 
> That was a result of a visit to the office of foreign affairs in Horta, Azores, Two days ago....it is obvious there is much misinformation being offered, even from official offices (not that I don't know that, living in Panama!).
> 
> ...


To obtain retirement/long-stay visa for both countries, you have to meet quite stringent requirements such as availability of accommodation either rented or owned in each, health insurance, adequate funds (i.e. non-earned income through pension or investment) and medical screening/police checks, so it would be quite difficult to get both. 
I'm assuming that the Azores are regarded as part of Schengen. Otherwise while you may get a local permit to stay in the Azores for 6 months, you may not be allowed to stay in Portugal itself longer than 90-in-180 days (though there may be no passport checks when travelling between the two, there is always a possibility of random ID checks or your overstay being picked up in some other ways, like when reporting crime or hospitalized).
Type D Schengen visa is so called because the format conforms to the Schengen visa norm (so that it will be quickly recognised throughout Schengen), but otherwise it's a national visa issued in accordance with national regulations, since Schengen Agreement only covers short tourist or business stays.


----------



## cortesinv (Jan 5, 2011)

Joppa said:


> To obtain retirement/long-stay visa for both countries, you have to meet quite stringent requirements such as availability of accommodation either rented or owned in each, health insurance, adequate funds (i.e. non-earned income through pension or investment) and medical screening/police checks, so it would be quite difficult to get both.
> I'm assuming that the Azores are regarded as part of Schengen. Otherwise while you may get a local permit to stay in the Azores for 6 months, you may not be allowed to stay in Portugal itself longer than 90-in-180 days (though there may be no passport checks when travelling between the two, there is always a possibility of random ID checks or your overstay being picked up in some other ways, like when reporting crime or hospitalized).
> Type D Schengen visa is so called because the format conforms to the Schengen visa norm (so that it will be quickly recognised throughout Schengen), but otherwise it's a national visa issued in accordance with national regulations, since Schengen Agreement only covers short tourist or business stays.


Let's assume for the moment I get national/D type visa in Spain or Portugal. My confusion is how that effects my travels in other EU/Schengen counties. If I stay in Spain for 120 days (or whatever # of days more than 90) under my residency, does that use up my 90 days out of 180 under Schengen? If so, I would not be able to go to any other countries after spending my 120 in Spain....That is a situation I would love to get an answer to....Please look at the reference I found via a Schengen D search:

1.D-type visa only give access to the issuing country. However, the holder of a national visa is allowed to travel around the Schengen area during the validity of his visa, under the same conditions as if they held a visitor visa as well.
2. A national visa can not be followed by a visitor visa. Once it expires, you have to leave Schengen territory. Likewise, a national visa cannot be immediately preceded by a visitor visa.

# 1 is a bit vague...I do not understand #2...how do you read it?

And as relates to #1 I found this:

Regulation regarding D type Schengen visa holders are changed. Since 05.04.2010 a 3rd country national who holds a valid D Type Schengen Visa can travel between Schengen countries freely* 
* The right of free movement means that the holders of a long-stay visa will be able to travel to other Schengen states (i.e. outside the state that issued them with the visa); nevertheless, the total period of time spent in these countries must not exceed three months during any six-month period.


----------



## cortesinv (Jan 5, 2011)

cortesinv said:


> Let's assume for the moment I get national/D type visa in Spain or Portugal. My confusion is how that effects my travels in other EU/Schengen counties. If I stay in Spain for 120 days (or whatever # of days more than 90) under my residency, does that use up my 90 days out of 180 under Schengen? If so, I would not be able to go to any other countries after spending my 120 in Spain....That is a situation I would love to get an answer to....Please look at the reference I found via a Schengen D search:
> 
> 1.D-type visa only give access to the issuing country. However, the holder of a national visa is allowed to travel around the Schengen area during the validity of his visa, under the same conditions as if they held a visitor visa as well.
> 2. A national visa can not be followed by a visitor visa. Once it expires, you have to leave Schengen territory. Likewise, a national visa cannot be immediately preceded by a visitor visa.
> ...


Further to the above, I found the EU regulation that allows long stay visa holders to travel for the 90/18o days in other countries outside of the one who issued the visa. I have attached the PDF file...


----------

