# How bad is the winter on Mallorca



## movingtospain2021 (Mar 31, 2021)

I am thinking about moving to Palma de Mallorca this year. The one thing holding me back is that I have heard that the winter there can quite bad because of how badly insulated and heated the flats are. Apparently, some Northern Europeans say they have never been as cold as they have been in Palma inside their own flat.

My question is: is this always the case? Or are there flats that have decent heating and are insulated enough to stay inside in January with a t-shirt on?
And if those flats exist, are they crazy expensive (both to rent and to keep warm (electricity etc.))? How do you find them, idealista does not seem to let me filter by calefaccion?

Any help would be appreciated.


----------



## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Not just Mallorca but pretty much the whole southern half of the country. We don’t sit around in t-shirts indoors, we pile on extra clothes. The upside however is that we can sit around in t-shirts outside...


----------



## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Alcalaina said:


> Not just Mallorca but pretty much the whole southern half of the country. We don’t sit around in t-shirts indoors, we pile on extra clothes. The upside however is that we can sit around in t-shirts outside...


... even more so in the northern half! Mallorca is sort of half way really, isn't it? We can see it from here on a clear day!

The Balearics often get some dreadful winter weather - it's pretty exposed out there. 


I'm indoors atm in my flat, which isn't 'old', but has pretty poor insulation & no heating apart from hot & cold aircon in the living room. I'm wearing three layers including a warm sweater & fluffy socks with slippers. 

It isn't cold enough to use the heating, & I'm about to go sit oudoors in the sun - & I'll strip at least one layer off when I get out there.


----------



## Amy123123 (Aug 9, 2020)

xabiaxica said:


> ... even more so in the northern half! Mallorca is sort of half way really, isn't it? We can see it from here on a clear day!
> 
> The Balearics often get some dreadful winter weather - it's pretty exposed out there.
> 
> ...


Where are you?! I don't need to wear anything more than underwear at the moment (sorry if tmi!)


----------



## movingtospain2021 (Mar 31, 2021)

Thanks for all the answers so far. 

Do any of you know if there are flats where the heating is good enough to be able to sit there with just a t-shirt on? Or does this just not exist?


----------



## Amy123123 (Aug 9, 2020)

movingtospain2021 said:


> Thanks for all the answers so far.
> 
> Do any of you know if there are flats where the heating is good enough to be able to sit there with just a t-shirt on? Or does this just not exist?


Depends how much money you have to spend on heating. 

I'm not sure about the Balearics but here in Malaga nowhere has central heating. Most air-con units will heat as well as cool, but it's not efficient, or a very pleasant type of heating. We used a couple of oil heaters when it really became necessary and they sufficed. We still needed a jumper though.

So I guess the answer is... unless you're rich enough not to worry about your electricity bill, you're unlikely to be able to make a flat warm enough for a t-shirt.

Just to check, have you looked at what's involved in moving to Spain post-Brexit?


----------



## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

movingtospain2021 said:


> Thanks for all the answers so far.
> 
> Do any of you know if there are flats where the heating is good enough to be able to sit there with just a t-shirt on? Or does this just not exist?


Occasionally, top floor flats with wood burning or pellet stoves can be found - the ático opposite mine has one (we have an open fireplace in ours which we've never used, although we could have an inset woodburner installed if we wanted to - we use inverter aircon instead which we find adequate but it doesn't heat the whole flat like central heating or a woodburner would). I have been in friends' houses who have woodburners or pellet stoves and it was certainly warm enough to sit inside in a T-shirt - I know because I had to take my jumper off!


----------



## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Amy123123 said:


> Where are you?! I don't need to wear anything more than underwear at the moment (sorry if tmi!)


On the little bit that sticks out on the right hand side about half-way down the Med coast.


----------



## xicoalc (Apr 20, 2010)

xabiaxica said:


> ... even more so in the northern half! Mallorca is sort of half way really, isn't it? We can see it from here on a clear day!
> 
> The Balearics often get some dreadful winter weather - it's pretty exposed out there.
> 
> ...


I remember when I first came, i was the typical guiri with my shorts on in winter and 3 changes of shirts during the summer days at work. 

But after time, the body adjusts and im same as you. In winter we sit watching tv with thermal socks, at least one jumper and at least one blanket. Even now, today was warm but i had a light jacket on outside. 

Mallorca is comparable to mainland Spain coastal areas in the south. When its hot its hot but when its bad its very bad!


----------



## movingtospain2021 (Mar 31, 2021)

Amy123123 said:


> Depends how much money you have to spend on heating.
> 
> I'm not sure about the Balearics but here in Malaga nowhere has central heating. Most air-con units will heat as well as cool, but it's not efficient, or a very pleasant type of heating. We used a couple of oil heaters when it really became necessary and they sufficed. We still needed a jumper though.
> 
> ...


Just to get an idea, for a 1 bedroom flat, how much do you heating to the t-shirt level would be?

I have a European passport, so moving to Spain should be straightforward.


----------



## movingtospain2021 (Mar 31, 2021)

Lynn R said:


> Occasionally, top floor flats with wood burning or pellet stoves can be found - the ático opposite mine has one (we have an open fireplace in ours which we've never used, although we could have an inset woodburner installed if we wanted to - we use inverter aircon instead which we find adequate but it doesn't heat the whole flat like central heating or a woodburner would). I have been in friends' houses who have woodburners or pellet stoves and it was certainly warm enough to sit inside in a T-shirt - I know because I had to take my jumper off!


That's interesting, I will look into this a bit more, seems like a reasonable option.


----------



## Amy123123 (Aug 9, 2020)

movingtospain2021 said:


> Just to get an idea, for a 1 bedroom flat, how much do you heating to the t-shirt level would be?
> 
> I have a European passport, so moving to Spain should be straightforward.


We've used so little heating since being here I have very little idea.

I do know that when we lived in England our electric radiators cost around 20p an hour each, and we needed two on to actually heat up a room.

We mostly just stayed cold.

Though that was an old mill, with exposed brick and high ceilings, in England.

I'm very jealous of that European passport


----------



## movingtospain2021 (Mar 31, 2021)

Amy123123 said:


> We've used so little heating since being here I have very little idea.
> 
> I do know that when we lived in England our electric radiators cost around 20p an hour each, and we needed two on to actually heat up a room.
> 
> ...


To be honest, my flat in London is quite cold today as well, even though it's warm outside. Weird...


----------



## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

xicoalc said:


> I remember when I first came, i was the typical guiri with my shorts on in winter and 3 changes of shirts during the summer days at work.
> 
> But after time, the body adjusts and im same as you. In winter we sit watching tv with thermal socks, at least one jumper and at least one blanket. Even now, today was warm but i had a light jacket on outside.
> 
> Mallorca is comparable to mainland Spain coastal areas in the south. When its hot its hot but when its bad its very bad!


Anything below 20º & we're in boots, jeans & sweaters. 

We might take the sweater off in the sun or walking around, though - unless like today there's a chilly NE wind. 

I put a blanket over my knees an hour ago... the sun is off the terrace, so it's getting chilly, but still pleasant.


----------



## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

movingtospain2021 said:


> That's interesting, I will look into this a bit more, seems like a reasonable option.


We did consider installing one some time this year after the spell of very cold weather we had in December/January but decided that for the number of days a year we'd use it, it wouldn't be worth it and we didn't fancy lugging the firewood about or cleaning it out. The type to fit in our fireplace had 13kw output and we thought if we had that going it would be so hot we'd have to sit out on the terrace, not just indoors in a T-shirt!

The most expensive electricity bill I've had in the last year was €76-odd (for December when we had the aircon on from 3pm to 11pm quite a few days, on the "powerful" setting, and our flat is all electric including cooking and water heating). The most recent bill for February was €59.99. We generally wear a sweater indoors in winter (but not at the moment) but never thermals or wrap up in blankets.


----------



## movingtospain2021 (Mar 31, 2021)

Lynn R said:


> We did consider installing one some time this year after the spell of very cold weather we had in December/January but decided that for the number of days a year we'd use it, it wouldn't be worth it and we didn't fancy lugging the firewood about or cleaning it out. The type to fit in our fireplace had 13kw output and we thought if we had that going it would be so hot we'd have to sit out on the terrace, not just indoors in a T-shirt!
> 
> The most expensive electricity bill I've had in the last year was €76-odd (for December when we had the aircon on from 3pm to 11pm quite a few days, on the "powerful" setting, and our flat is all electric including cooking and water heating). The most recent bill for February was €59.99. We generally wear a sweater indoors in winter (but not at the moment) but never thermals or wrap up in blankets.


Thanks, those sums seem reasonable considering that the rent will be lower than here in London.


----------



## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

movingtospain2021 said:


> Thanks, those sums seem reasonable considering that the rent will be lower than here in London.


If you're going to rent, check out the energy efficiency rating of the appliances in the property. When we bought our flat we replaced everything with the highest efficiency ratings we could find, older appliances might be quite a bit more expensive to run. Also consider the orientation of the property - north or east facing will be cold in the winter, especially in the evenings (but will probably be cooler in summer so you have to decide which is more important to you).


----------



## movingtospain2021 (Mar 31, 2021)

Lynn R said:


> If you're going to rent, check out the energy efficiency rating of the appliances in the property. When we bought our flat we replaced everything with the highest efficiency ratings we could find, older appliances might be quite a bit more expensive to run. Also consider the orientation of the property - north or east facing will be cold in the winter, especially in the evenings (but will probably be cooler in summer so you have to decide which is more important to you).


That's great advice, thanks. I'm just trying to figure out how much hassle it will be to keep warm in winter, and whether it might be easier to move to Las Palmas instead. But I prefer Mallorca, so will keep researching this...


----------



## movingtospain2021 (Mar 31, 2021)

To pick this up again. Is there really nobody who lives in a flat that is warm in winter? Without costing the earth?


----------



## xicoalc (Apr 20, 2010)

movingtospain2021 said:


> To pick this up again. Is there really nobody who lives in a flat that is warm in winter? Without costing the earth?


I think it depends what you call warm. The ambient temperature in winter hardly gets like the UK. Yes, many properties are poorly insulated but a lot comes down to how your body adjusts to the warmer climate. 

As i mentioned, you'll find yourself dressing like a Spaniard in winter after a year or two. But even when you are out and about. 

Truthfully, we use heating very little. Its fine in day, and in evenings its nothing that an extra layer won't deal with

This year, the only month we used heating really was January when we did have snow and a week or so of very cold weather so in the evenings we used the heating for a few hours. Other than that it wasn't necessary. 

I should point out that when we reformed out house we fitted windows that had thermal double glazing, we replaced ceiling and double insulated it and we replaced all the internal walls, also insulating them all. So put house is not a cold house. We feel chilly sometimes in evenings more because we are adjusted to hotter weather and even in winter, the sun in the day outside and often make the evenings feel cooler. 

There are many things that you have to consider. Carpets is one thing. They make houses warmer. Tiled or marble floors which are the norm here make it feel cooler. But thats a blessing in summer. Curtains are far less used here but fitting them will keep you warmer. Central heating is rare although exists, and even hot water pipes running through the floor boards are not same here as floor boards rarely exist. 

Spanish houses need to be made for the hot weather as thats what we have the most of. 

A friend of mine lives in a small, old and very badly insulated chalet. She added a pellet stove in the salón a couple of years ago and swears by it. Its bluetooth or wifi or something so she puts it on from work amd when she gets home the house is toasty for the night.


----------



## NickZ (Jun 26, 2009)

Avoid rentals aimed for beach season. You'll risk everything from no heat to drafty windows.


movingtospain2021 said:


> To pick this up again. Is there really nobody who lives in a flat that is warm in winter? Without costing the earth?


Avoid summer beach rentals. Anything that's mainly rented out during the summer the landlord isn't going to put much effort into heating.

Reality is even if it's a year round rental the landlord is unlikely to get a much higher rent with doing the things that would make winter more liveable. Weather sealing, more efficient heating or insulation all cost money and most tenants will pick the cheaper rental .


----------



## movingtospain2021 (Mar 31, 2021)

xicoalc said:


> I think it depends what you call warm. The ambient temperature in winter hardly gets like the UK. Yes, many properties are poorly insulated but a lot comes down to how your body adjusts to the warmer climate.
> 
> As i mentioned, you'll find yourself dressing like a Spaniard in winter after a year or two. But even when you are out and about.
> 
> ...


Thanks, that's really useful and detailed information. I would rent a flat, so I guess major changes wouldn't be possible, so I'd have to look out for one that already has double glazing and some insulation. Are these difficult to find for rent?


----------



## movingtospain2021 (Mar 31, 2021)

NickZ said:


> Avoid rentals aimed for beach season. You'll risk everything from no heat to drafty windows.
> 
> 
> Avoid summer beach rentals. Anything that's mainly rented out during the summer the landlord isn't going to put much effort into heating.
> ...


Thanks for the info. So do you think this counts out most of the flats advertised on Airbnb? Many of them say 'calefaccion', but that probably could mean anything...


----------



## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

movingtospain2021 said:


> Thanks for the info. So do you think this counts out most of the flats advertised on Airbnb? Many of them say 'calefaccion', but that probably could mean anything...


_calefacción _might mean central heating, but _calefacción central_ definitely would!

The only way to know for sure is to ask the question of the agent or owner.


----------



## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

As most long termers point out, it really is about acclimitising. When you first arrive in Spain you tend to wear shorts, sandals, shirts all year. After a few years things change and you basically act as if in UK. You recognize Spanish winters and dress in coats and hats even though it might be 14 degrees. I dont start wearing shorts until beginning of June. Consequently you do feel cold inside in the winter months and January can be a bit miserable. One problem, as we all say, is that Spanish flats/ houses in the south are not built to keep heat in. In other words they are bloody cold. Cosy, does not exist in southern Spain!. You wear jumpers and use hot water bottles as heating by electricity is very expensive. In fact this year I noticed that electricity prices have really shot up and my December bill was around 79 Euros for a one bed flat with one blow heater!!! The year before it was 55 Euros. Ummff


----------



## movingtospain2021 (Mar 31, 2021)

xabiaxica said:


> _calefacción _might mean central heating, but _calefacción central_ definitely would!
> 
> The only way to know for sure is to ask the question of the agent or owner.


And with central heating flats tend to stay warm, or do they still need to be really well-insulated? (I've lived with individual heating for 30 years, so know next to nothing about central heating)


----------



## movingtospain2021 (Mar 31, 2021)

kaipa said:


> As most long termers point out, it really is about acclimitising. When you first arrive in Spain you tend to wear shorts, sandals, shirts all year. After a few years things change and you basically act as if in UK. You recognize Spanish winters and dress in coats and hats even though it might be 14 degrees. I dont start wearing shorts until beginning of June. Consequently you do feel cold inside in the winter months and January can be a bit miserable. One problem, as we all say, is that Spanish flats/ houses in the south are not built to keep heat in. In other words they are bloody cold. Cosy, does not exist in southern Spain!. You wear jumpers and use hot water bottles as heating by electricity is very expensive. In fact this year I noticed that electricity prices have really shot up and my December bill was around 79 Euros for a one bed flat with one blow heater!!! The year before it was 55 Euros. Ummff


But did the blow heater at least keep your flat warm? I would be okay with paying under 100 Euros a months for a couple of months in winter, if I knew it kept me warm. Compared to London prices, the rent would be quite a bit cheaper, so it would all even out...


----------



## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

movingtospain2021 said:


> And with central heating flats tend to stay warm, or do they still need to be really well-insulated? (I've lived with individual heating for 30 years, so know next to nothing about central heating)


They won't necessarily stay warm - & you would likely find fuel bills prohibitive if you want to heat to a temperature that you're used to, at least most people would.

There's a reason that a lot of people still use these...


----------



## movingtospain2021 (Mar 31, 2021)

xabiaxica said:


> They won't necessarily stay warm - & you would likely find fuel bills prohibitive if you want to heat to a temperature that you're used to, at least most people would.
> 
> There's a reason that a lot of people still use these...
> View attachment 99382


What is this? Looks like a leftover from the Spanish inquisition .


----------



## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

movingtospain2021 said:


> And with central heating flats tend to stay warm, or do they still need to be really well-insulated? (I've lived with individual heating for 30 years, so know next to nothing about central heating)


We rented one for a few days in the centre of Seville once, which had full (natural gas) central heating, with radiators in every room, and it did keep the whole place warm. It's the only property (apart from hotels) I've ever been in in Spain which had "proper" central heating. It was a recently built block so likely to have been better insulated. I think you'd only be likely to find them in areas where the winters are really cold (much colder than Mallorca or any coastal area).


----------



## kalohi (May 6, 2012)

movingtospain2021 said:


> But did the blow heater at least keep your flat warm? I would be okay with paying under 100 Euros a months for a couple of months in winter, if I knew it kept me warm. Compared to London prices, the rent would be quite a bit cheaper, so it would all even out...


I'm always amazed at the low electric bills other people have. We live in the Seville area in a 3 bedroom semi-detached house. It's a typical, uninsulated, unheated house that's designed to withstand the summer heat, not the winter cold. We use the heat pumps in our A/C units to heat only the rooms that we'll be in for any length of time, which turns out to be maybe 4-6 hours of use a day. Well last January our electric bill was over 200€ - and believe me we weren't walking around in t-shirts! In the winter our house gets down to about 10º inside, and with the heating running full blast we get the room up to about 16º. I can't imagine what we'd pay for electricity if we tried to heat the whole house up to t-shirt warm. 

On the plus side, we have our window open and are wearing t-shirts now, and it's only 1 April. The winter here is intense, but very short.


----------



## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

kalohi said:


> I'm always amazed at the low electric bills other people have. We live in the Seville area in a 3 bedroom semi-detached house. It's a typical, uninsulated, unheated house that's designed to withstand the summer heat, not the winter cold. We use the heat pumps in our A/C units to heat only the rooms that we'll be in for any length of time, which turns out to be maybe 4-6 hours of use a day. Well last January our electric bill was over 200€ - and believe me we weren't walking around in t-shirts! In the winter our house gets down to about 10º inside, and with the heating running full blast we get the room up to about 16º. I can't imagine what we'd pay for electricity if we tried to heat the whole house up to t-shirt warm.
> 
> On the plus side, we have our window open and are wearing t-shirts now, and it's only 1 April. The winter here is intense, but very short.


When you say your bill last January was over 200€, is that for one month or two? I am billed monthly so the figures I quoted were just for one month. Our flat is smaller than your house (2 bedrooms) and is a south facing ático, the winter temperature inside hasn't gone below 15C at any time during the 3.5 years we've lived here so far, we can heat our liviing room to 24 or 25C with the aircon on, no problem, but our outside temperatures don't go as low as they do in Seville.


----------



## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

movingtospain2021 said:


> What is this? Looks like a leftover from the Spanish inquisition .


It's called a _brasero. _

Really old ones use coa l/ ashes, but they're more often electric now. 

They go on the shelfunder the table, everyone sits at the table with the cloth over their legs. REALLY toasty!

My downstairs neighbour where I used to live had one. She spent winter evenings at the table sewing or playing cards.


----------



## movingtospain2021 (Mar 31, 2021)

kalohi said:


> I'm always amazed at the low electric bills other people have. We live in the Seville area in a 3 bedroom semi-detached house. It's a typical, uninsulated, unheated house that's designed to withstand the summer heat, not the winter cold. We use the heat pumps in our A/C units to heat only the rooms that we'll be in for any length of time, which turns out to be maybe 4-6 hours of use a day. Well last January our electric bill was over 200€ - and believe me we weren't walking around in t-shirts! In the winter our house gets down to about 10º inside, and with the heating running full blast we get the room up to about 16º. I can't imagine what we'd pay for electricity if we tried to heat the whole house up to t-shirt warm.
> 
> On the plus side, we have our window open and are wearing t-shirts now, and it's only 1 April. The winter here is intense, but very short.


So how long does the winter last, i.e. for how long is it unpleasantly cold inside?


----------



## movingtospain2021 (Mar 31, 2021)

Lynn R said:


> We rented one for a few days in the centre of Seville once, which had full (natural gas) central heating, with radiators in every room, and it did keep the whole place warm. It's the only property (apart from hotels) I've ever been in in Spain which had "proper" central heating. It was a recently built block so likely to have been better insulated. I think you'd only be likely to find them in areas where the winters are really cold (much colder than Mallorca or any coastal area).


Okay, so little hope on Mallorca...


----------



## movingtospain2021 (Mar 31, 2021)

Lynn R said:


> When you say your bill last January was over 200€, is that for one month or two? I am billed monthly so the figures I quoted were just for one month. Our flat is smaller than your house (2 bedrooms) and is a south facing ático, the winter temperature inside hasn't gone below 15C at any time during the 3.5 years we've lived here so far, we can heat our liviing room to 24 or 25C with the aircon on, no problem, but our outside temperatures don't go as low as they do in Seville.


So this is on Mallorca? And you just use the 'reverse' aircon? In a normal flat, i.e. not a 'super insulated' one?


----------



## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

I think everything depends on the construction build. More modern apartments most likely are better insulated than older ones in Spain but remember mallorca is really a holiday destination so most builds are probably cheap with the understanding that the majority use them as second homes and mostly in the warmer months. Basically it will be cold in winter out there, not to mention the storms that hit those isles!!. You most likely will not have a cosy place with fire, curtains, carpets etc ( if you are renting). So dont expect to be sitting in a t-shirt inside on a January night. It wont actually be as cold as UK degree wise but given that most apartments resemble the inside of a bath-house ( tiled floors,) with one single pane of glass, you might find yourself under a duvet by 8.00 just to feel warm!


----------



## xicoalc (Apr 20, 2010)

Lynn R said:


> When you say your bill last January was over 200€, is that for one month or two? I am billed monthly so the figures I quoted were just for one month. Our flat is smaller than your house (2 bedrooms) and is a south facing ático, the winter temperature inside hasn't gone below 15C at any time during the 3.5 years we've lived here so far, we can heat our liviing room to 24 or 25C with the aircon on, no problem, but our outside temperatures don't go as low as they do in Seville.


I too spent 200 euros in January, for one month. To be fair, I have a very sick dog that needs to be kept warm and sometimes needs to be alone from others. He chose to spend a lot of time in the dog room which is a garage conversion i made so that they can be out in the campo when im working but have a room to go to if they want shade, rest etc. As he wanted to be there at night, and with the temperature of January, i had their electric heating (2kw) on most of the nights set to 18°. So that bumped up January bill

In general, we spend more or less 100 a month taking into account air conditioning in summer but the termo eléctrico for water which is outside in the patio (so working harder in winter).

I am way out of touch with UK electric costs but i do feel its quite expensive in spain. Two people have recommend other suppliers but when studying, overall the price will be similar so we stick to iberdrola. 

If the OP wants to be snug, then those portable butane heaters are awesome. My old house was rented, and as others have said, done cheaply, so very cold. I had one of those heaters.... The black ones on wheels. I probably bought in winter one bottle of gas every 2 or 3 weeks and used it on and off 2 or 3 hours a day. Made even thr coldest big living room cosey

The OP has to factor that in. Couple of bottles of gas a month will cost more or less 30 euros but if you want to be hot in the coldest periods, its cheaper than electric. Just don't buy the cheapest 60 euro heater. They suck gas more than u can imagine. Mine was about 150 and quite economical amd lasted me almost 10 years before it finally decided not to work.


----------



## movingtospain2021 (Mar 31, 2021)

xicoalc said:


> I too spent 200 euros in January, for one month. To be fair, I have a very sick dog that needs to be kept warm and sometimes needs to be alone from others. He chose to spend a lot of time in the dog room which is a garage conversion i made so that they can be out in the campo when im working but have a room to go to if they want shade, rest etc. As he wanted to be there at night, and with the temperature of January, i had their electric heating (2kw) on most of the nights set to 18°. So that bumped up January bill
> 
> In general, we spend more or less 100 a month taking into account air conditioning in summer but the termo eléctrico for water which is outside in the patio (so working harder in winter).
> 
> ...


I hadn't considered these before, but this sounds like a really good option if the flat does not have central heating. Are they idiot-proof, or is there a chance I might blow up the house?


----------



## movingtospain2021 (Mar 31, 2021)

kaipa said:


> I think everything depends on the construction build. More modern apartments most likely are better insulated than older ones in Spain but remember mallorca is really a holiday destination so most builds are probably cheap with the understanding that the majority use them as second homes and mostly in the warmer months. Basically it will be cold in winter out there, not to mention the storms that hit those isles!!. You most likely will not have a cosy place with fire, curtains, carpets etc ( if you are renting). So dont expect to be sitting in a t-shirt inside on a January night. It wont actually be as cold as UK degree wise but given that most apartments resemble the inside of a bath-house ( tiled floors,) with one single pane of glass, you might find yourself under a duvet by 8.00 just to feel warm!


I could probably live with that, but I have read comments from so many people who talk about it being 'to the bones' cold inside their flat, and extremely damp, with some even claiming this triggered their respiratory illnesses. That I could not live with. Are these just very rare case, people who got unlucky or maybe didn't expect Spain ever to be cold?


----------



## movingtospain2021 (Mar 31, 2021)

That's a related question, really. How bad is the humidity in winter?


----------



## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

movingtospain2021 said:


> So this is on Mallorca? And you just use the 'reverse' aircon? In a normal flat, i.e. not a 'super insulated' one?


No, I am not on Mallorca - sorry, I forget that the new forum layout doesn't show our locations. I am in Andalucia, 30km East of Málaga and 5km inland. Yes, we just use the "reverse" aircon, plus fan heaters in the bathrooms when needed. It is a normal flat, built 23 years ago, not super insulated and we don't have double glazing. We have curtains (voile ones plus heavier ones that are only closed on winter evenings), no carpets or rugs.


----------



## xicoalc (Apr 20, 2010)

movingtospain2021 said:


> I hadn't considered these before, but this sounds like a really good option if the flat does not have central heating. Are they idiot-proof, or is there a chance I might blow up the house?


I reckon you'll manage it. Turn on gas and press the big red button!

They need soke ventilation obviously. 

Changing the bottle is dead simple too. 

And if u have a bottled gas stove then keep thr bottle when heater thinks its finished because i always got another week of cooking from an "empty" bottle!


----------



## NickZ (Jun 26, 2009)

movingtospain2021 said:


> So this is on Mallorca? And you just use the 'reverse' aircon? In a normal flat, i.e. not a 'super insulated' one?


Reverse aircon I assume meaning an air to air heat pump range wildly in efficiency. Worse most people only glance at the cooling efficiency. If you're using one for winter heating (I am) you need to look at the heating number. If you're in a colder area you also need to check what happens to performance when it gets really cold. Some units barely work if it's below 7C.

Also you need to understand these are really opposite machines. Turn them on before it gets cold outside and they'll use much less power than if you wait until it gets cold. December even if the house feels warm I turn them on at least an hour before sunset.


----------



## xicoalc (Apr 20, 2010)

movingtospain2021 said:


> I could probably live with that, but I have read comments from so many people who talk about it being 'to the bones' cold inside their flat, and extremely damp, with some even claiming this triggered their respiratory illnesses. That I could not live with. Are these just very rare case, people who got unlucky or maybe didn't expect Spain ever to be cold?


Rare!

Chilly yes. To the bones.. No.. And even if it is, they sell duvets in spain! I never use heating to sleep, maybe 20 mins to take chill off room in coldest weeks. But i do have a thick nórdico (duvet) and a couple of heavy blankets. Makes it snug. But the weight would make nookie less comfortable... But im married so don't have to worry about that problem arising any more!

Damp exists. We had mould grow with condensation on some walls in thebold house, however was a 200 year old house, preciously stables. But obviously a landlord has to fix tbowe things. There are good and bad places everywhere. You only have to look at some flats in the uk
On the whole, the standard in spain is good.


----------



## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

xicoalc said:


> I too spent 200 euros in January, for one month. To be fair, I have a very sick dog that needs to be kept warm and sometimes needs to be alone from others. He chose to spend a lot of time in the dog room which is a garage conversion i made so that they can be out in the campo when im working but have a room to go to if they want shade, rest etc. As he wanted to be there at night, and with the temperature of January, i had their electric heating (2kw) on most of the nights set to 18°. So that bumped up January bill
> 
> In general, we spend more or less 100 a month taking into account air conditioning in summer but the termo eléctrico for water which is outside in the patio (so working harder in winter).
> 
> ...


I think electricity does cost more in Spain (mostly because of the higher standing charges, higher IVA and the additional 5% tax on electricity - wasn't that supposed to be temporary, haha) but from the figures I hear from family and friends in the UK, they all pay more than I do for domestic energy bills overall, once you take into account the gas bills they pay on top of their electricity bills. I don't think very many people have all-electric properties in the UK, it would cost too much.

We used to use a butane heater in our old house. It was quite good, the house was pretty open plan with the staircase in the living room and no door between the living room and kitchen/dining room and it did at least "take the chill off" the upstairs, although it couldn't be said to be actually warm. We didn't have condensation problems with it, but I think if we'd used it in a room with the door closed, we most likely would have. 

Apart from real central heating, as I said before woodburning or pellet stoves are the only solutions I've experienced that really do keep the whole house (or flat) warm in winter.


----------



## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

movingtospain2021 said:


> I could probably live with that, but I have read comments from so many people who talk about it being 'to the bones' cold inside their flat, and extremely damp, with some even claiming this triggered their respiratory illnesses. That I could not live with. Are these just very rare case, people who got unlucky or maybe didn't expect Spain ever to be cold?


If they are very poorly insulated blocks, yes they could be damp and cold. But a surprising amount of people really don't expect Spain to be cold in the winter and don't take account of the fact that although the actual temperatures look higher than what they are used to, once you have spent a year or two in Spain you get acclimatised to the heat in the summer and start to feel cold much more quickly than you would have before. Once it drops to 20C here we start putting sweaters on. I have met people who didn't bring any winter clothes when they moved to Spain as they thought they wouldn't need them.

We don't heat our bedroom in the winter. We have an electric duvet which is great for keeping warm without being as heavy as blankets (in fact we just use it for an hour or so and set it to turn off after that.


----------



## movingtospain2021 (Mar 31, 2021)

Great, thanks for all the info so far, this is really useful. Let me summarise my understanding:

yes, it does get cold in winter inside flats
should look to rent a place that has at least some insulation, double-glazing etc.
central heating is best, followed by woodburning or pellet stoves, followed by butane heaters
won't ever be crispy warm inside flat, but can be made liveable, so the goal is to be able to walk around with a sweater rather than in a t-shirt

Is this correct? Does anybody have anything to add? Also, how long is it typically cold for (inside flats)?


----------



## Barriej (Jul 23, 2012)

movingtospain2021 said:


> Great, thanks for all the info so far, this is really useful. Let me summarise my understanding:
> 
> yes, it does get cold in winter inside flats
> should look to rent a place that has at least some insulation, double-glazing etc.
> ...


Its still cold here inside, in fact today its 18c on the balcony (in the shade) and 12c in the main room of the flat (I just checked). And the walls are cold to the touch.
We have a 2nd floor flat (top roof only above and its flat) and the flat wont warm up properly until July. 
The thickness of the concrete makes it cool in summer and cold in winter, the walls are around 200mm thick and the floors are about 500mm thick. No insulation, badly fitted double glazing, the wind was blowing under the front door in December. 
We are inland of Benidorm about 12km and around 260m above sea level.

We have 3 modern hot/cold air con units and they cost about 50c an hour to run on hot, well 18c on hot and 25c on cold (all units are useless if trying to cool or warm more than 6-8 degrees either way as they will never get to temp) we also have a couple of oil filled radiators as well. 
The shutters go down over the windows before it gets dark in winter to help with the heat loss.
There was little damp this winter as I like to have open windows, good air circulation keeps damp at bay.

To be honest the best thing for you to do is actually come out here in the winter and see what its like, before we moved most of our 'holidays' were in the early and late parts of the year.


----------



## movingtospain2021 (Mar 31, 2021)

Barriej said:


> Its still cold here inside, in fact today its 18c on the balcony (in the shade) and 12c in the main room of the flat (I just checked). And the walls are cold to the touch.
> We have a 2nd floor flat (top roof only above and its flat) and the flat wont warm up properly until July.
> The thickness of the concrete makes it cool in summer and cold in winter, the walls are around 200mm thick and the floors are about 500mm thick. No insulation, badly fitted double glazing, the wind was blowing under the front door in December.
> We are inland of Benidorm about 12km and around 260m above sea level.
> ...


Yeah, that's what I'm beginning to think. I just thought I might be able to avoid the cost of keeping my flat in England while I check out Mallorca in winter by just taking the plunge and moving there straight away...


----------



## xicoalc (Apr 20, 2010)

Lynn R said:


> If they are very poorly insulated blocks, yes they could be damp and cold. But a surprising amount of people really don't expect Spain to be cold in the winter and don't take account of the fact that although the actual temperatures look higher than what they are used to, once you have spent a year or two in Spain you get acclimatised to the heat in the summer and start to feel cold much more quickly than you would have before. Once it drops to 20C here we start putting sweaters on. I have met people who didn't bring any winter clothes when they moved to Spain as they thought they wouldn't need them.
> 
> We don't heat our bedroom in the winter. We have an electric duvet which is great for keeping warm without being as heavy as blankets (in fact we just use it for an hour or so and set it to turn off after that.


Oh, and electric duvet. That sounds amazing. 

I have to be honest, after the summer, i really like the winter here. Not for the bad weather but i really like the blankets, snuggles (with the dogs or cats, no chance of snuggles with the husband), and making the house cosey. 

The heating we have is just the air conditioning these days but the LG app means i can turn it on when im not there and its amazing to come home on a cold January evening to a warm house and afyer a hot shower get comfy on the sofa with a few blankets and a glass of something!

Im going to Google electric duvets thought. Sounds amazing!


----------



## xicoalc (Apr 20, 2010)

Barriej said:


> Its still cold here inside, in fact today its 18c on the balcony (in the shade) and 12c in the main room of the flat (I just checked). And the walls are cold to the touch.
> We have a 2nd floor flat (top roof only above and its flat) and the flat wont warm up properly until July.
> The thickness of the concrete makes it cool in summer and cold in winter, the walls are around 200mm thick and the floors are about 500mm thick. No insulation, badly fitted double glazing, the wind was blowing under the front door in December.
> We are inland of Benidorm about 12km and around 260m above sea level.
> ...


Thats always the best advice. Come, experience and visit houses etc.


----------



## xicoalc (Apr 20, 2010)

movingtospain2021 said:


> Great, thanks for all the info so far, this is really useful. Let me summarise my understanding:
> 
> yes, it does get cold in winter inside flats
> should look to rent a place that has at least some insulation, double-glazing etc.
> ...


It can be as crispy warm as you want. If we turn on the air conditioning to heat, we can keep it going and walk around naked if we want (although i would never do such a thing obviously). Really comes down to cost.

You can spend little and keep it comfortable with a sweater or spend a little more and walk around as nature intended!


----------



## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

movingtospain2021 said:


> I could probably live with that, but I have read comments from so many people who talk about it being 'to the bones' cold inside their flat, and extremely damp, with some even claiming this triggered their respiratory illnesses. That I could not live with. Are these just very rare case, people who got unlucky or maybe didn't expect Spain ever to be cold?


Again it's hard to generalize. I remember my first year was in Logroño in the North and it was so cold in my flat I had to wear all my clothes plus a woolly hat to bed!. It was the coldest place I had ever lived in and I am from Scotland!. Obviously its not so bad in the southern parts but even today I am sitting with a blanket round my legs. Basically come May is when it heats up. Incidentally I am not sure it's the cold you should worry about more the heat. It is soooo hot in August you actually start to feel ill if you venture out after midday. For me that is far worse than the cold!


----------



## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

kaipa said:


> Again it's hard to generalize. I remember my first year was in Logroño in the North and it was so cold in my flat I had to wear all my clothes plus a woolly hat to bed!. It was the coldest place I had ever lived in and I am from Scotland!. Obviously its not so bad in the southern parts but even today I am sitting with a blanket round my legs. Basically come May is when it heats up. Incidentally I am not sure it's the cold you should worry about more the heat. It is soooo hot in August you actually start to feel ill if you venture out after midday. For me that is far worse than the cold!


Yes!
Layers can be added when you're cold. 


There's a finite number of layers to remove if you're too hot!


----------



## movingtospain2021 (Mar 31, 2021)

kaipa said:


> Again it's hard to generalize. I remember my first year was in Logroño in the North and it was so cold in my flat I had to wear all my clothes plus a woolly hat to bed!. It was the coldest place I had ever lived in and I am from Scotland!. Obviously its not so bad in the southern parts but even today I am sitting with a blanket round my legs. Basically come May is when it heats up. Incidentally I am not sure it's the cold you should worry about more the heat. It is soooo hot in August you actually start to feel ill if you venture out after midday. For me that is far worse than the cold!


Excellent. I felt I was getting close to solving one problem, and you put another one on my plate  .


----------



## kalohi (May 6, 2012)

Lynn R said:


> When you say your bill last January was over 200€, is that for one month or two? I am billed monthly so the figures I quoted were just for one month....


 That's for one month.


----------



## kalohi (May 6, 2012)

movingtospain2021 said:


> So how long does the winter last, i.e. for how long is it unpleasantly cold inside?


I consider it unpleasantly cold for about two months, basically from mid December to mid February. But it all depends on what you consider unpleasant. I'm in a a short sleeved t-shirt right now but my husband sitting right next to me is wearing a sweatshirt. 

It's the heat that gets to me. For me it's unpleasantly hot from mid May till mid October (and absolutely broiling in July and August). I can put up with two months of cold a year, but those 5 months of heat are endless.


----------



## xicoalc (Apr 20, 2010)

Make sure your flat has good efficient air conditioning. As others have said, the problem isn't the winter. Its July and August when you're trying to sleep. Im ok with it now but first summer or two i suffered enormously on the summer nights. Now i actually shouldn't admit but I put air conditioning and a duvet. Perfect combination!


----------



## movingtospain2021 (Mar 31, 2021)

kalohi said:


> I consider it unpleasantly cold for about two months, basically from mid December to mid February. But it all depends on what you consider unpleasant. I'm in a a short sleeved t-shirt right now but my husband sitting right next to me is wearing a sweatshirt.
> 
> It's the heat that gets to me. For me it's unpleasantly hot from mid May till mid October (and absolutely broiling in July and August). I can put up with two months of cold a year, but those 5 months of heat are endless.


Yeah, I'm beginning to think I've been looking at the wrong problem...


----------



## Isobella (Oct 16, 2014)

I think the first winter in Spain is a shock for most people although you do see many expats still in shorts. I always found it better out than in. We had part gas central heating installed in the newer part and double glazing. Heat/aircon units in a couple of the bedrooms. Plus a log burner. (not true they heat the whole house, maybe air it) Quite a few I knew had underfloor heating which they found expensive. 

The damp is the worse. Have been in a few houses and it smells. A neighbour from Madrid only came in summer as she said her arthritis was worse than when she was in Madrid. Never lived in a flat but I imagine they would be warmer than a detached house. 
I once remember sleeping in socks in Mallorca in May.


----------



## Amy123123 (Aug 9, 2020)

Isobella said:


> I think the first winter in Spain is a shock for most people although you do see many expats still in shorts. I always found it better out than in. We had part gas central heating installed in the newer part and double glazing. Heat/aircon units in a couple of the bedrooms. Plus a log burner. (not true they heat the whole house, maybe air it) Quite a few I knew had underfloor heating which they found expensive.
> 
> The damp is the worse. Have been in a few houses and it smells. A neighbour from Madrid only came in summer as she said her arthritis was worse than when she was in Madrid. Never lived in a flat but I imagine they would be warmer than a detached house.
> I once remember sleeping in socks in Mallorca in May.


If it helps OP, I didn't experience this. Though I am in a small (70msq) relatively modern and double glazed flat, in the South. Mallorca (I believe) gets much more rain that here, so that could well make a difference in terms of damp.

I can't speak for coping in the summer yet!

As others have said, the best thing is to come and experience it for yourself.


----------



## movingtospain2021 (Mar 31, 2021)

Yeah, I will have to spend one winter on Mallorca to find out for myself, everybody has different tolerance levels for cold, heat or dampness. 

Thanks for all the information and advice, I hope that once I've been there over the winter I can help the next person asking this question!


----------



## NickZ (Jun 26, 2009)

movingtospain2021 said:


> Yeah, I will have to spend one winter on Mallorca to find out for myself, everybody has different tolerance levels for cold, heat or dampness.


Damp depends on things like how ventilated the house is. What sort of heating you're using.

If you have uninsulated walls they'll be colder than the rest of the room. Any humidity in the area will condense on the wall. Same thing with single pane windows. 

A log burner will tend to put out dry heat. It'll also eat up a lot of air pulling in fresh air from the outside. That cold air by virtue of the fact it's cold will have less moisture in it.

Radiators on the other hand don't dry out the air that much. They also don't suck that much air into the house.

A heat pump usually has a dehumidifier setting and can be used to reduce room humidity. 

Opening your windows for awhile every day will help with damp. Problem is you now have a bunch of cold air that needs to be heated.


----------



## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

xicoalc said:


> Oh, and electric duvet. That sounds amazing.
> 
> I have to be honest, after the summer, i really like the winter here. Not for the bad weather but i really like the blankets, snuggles (with the dogs or cats, no chance of snuggles with the husband), and making the house cosey.
> 
> ...


This was the one we bought, although ordered from the UK in the days when getting things sent from there was still easy. One of the best things we ever bought for the house. It's washable although the man in the drycleaner's looked a bit dubious when we first took it to be washed there (too big for our washing machine).









Sleepwell 6982 - Edredón eléctrico de algodón con Sensor de Temperatura Inteligente y Control Digital : Amazon.es: Hogar y cocina


Sleepwell 6982 - Edredón eléctrico de algodón con Sensor de Temperatura Inteligente y Control Digital : Amazon.es: Hogar y cocina



www.amazon.es


----------



## xicoalc (Apr 20, 2010)

Lynn R said:


> This was the one we bought, although ordered from the UK in the days when getting things sent from there was still easy. One of the best things we ever bought for the house. It's washable although the man in the drycleaner's looked a bit dubious when we first took it to be washed there (too big for our washing machine).
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Gracias. Im buying one. 

Just imagine. Next winter we can imagine each other all snuggled and warm!


----------



## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

xicoalc said:


> Gracias. Im buying one.
> 
> Just imagine. Next winter we can imagine each other all snuggled and warm!


Get two, then you can have one for the sofa and the other warming up the bed! (I'm not that decadent by the way)


----------



## xicoalc (Apr 20, 2010)

Lynn R said:


> Get two, then you can have one for the sofa and the other warming up the bed! (I'm not that decadent by the way)


You're indulging me with increíble ideas. I might just do that. The cats will be happy! 💖


----------



## Joey Testa (Jan 5, 2021)

In Mallorca you can buy a flat from a German builder. These flats have much better insulation and heating than Spanish built flats.


----------



## movingtospain2021 (Mar 31, 2021)

Joey Testa said:


> In Mallorca you can buy a flat from a German builder. These flats have much better insulation and heating than Spanish built flats.


 That's really interesting, I was hoping for there to be some "German" flats on the island. Do you think that they will only be for sale, or are there some that could be rented?


----------



## Joey Testa (Jan 5, 2021)

movingtospain2021 said:


> That's really interesting, I was hoping for there to be some "German" flats on the island. Do you think that they will only be for sale, or are there some that could be rented?


There is a big German community on Mallorca so probably both options are available. This would likely mean having Germans as neighbours though so rubbish must be separated, no loud noise after 10 pm and all those other rules that they love!


----------



## movingtospain2021 (Mar 31, 2021)

Joey Testa said:


> There is a big German community on Mallorca so probably both options are available. This would likely mean having Germans as neighbours though so rubbish must be separated, no loud noise after 10 pm and all those other rules that they love!


Okay, I'll have a look when I come over to Palma. Being German I may be able to coexist with them, though it might take some getting used to after 30 years in London...


----------

