# intro and a point of direction please?



## flows (Mar 3, 2011)

hi all, im isabelle, 24 and have nothing to lose at all in the uk (including home0 so am upping sticks (or twigs!) and moving to spain. my mother lives over there. can anyone point me in the direction of what to do in failing health and signing on some kind of unemployment benifit?
no matter how much i reserch i keep coming up with nothing.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

The British Embassy website is a good starting point.
Living in Spain

You may get free health care for a year or two if you have been paying NI contributions in the UK, but after that there is nothing until you are an old-age pensioner - way to go! 

If you are on Jobseeker's Allowance in the UK when you leave, you can continue to draw it for three months, but you have to sign on in Spain within a week of arriving. 
Contribution based Job Seekers Allowance


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

flows said:


> hi all, im isabelle, 24 and have nothing to lose at all in the uk (including home0 so am upping sticks (or twigs!) and moving to spain. my mother lives over there. can anyone point me in the direction of what to do in failing health and signing on some kind of unemployment benifit?
> no matter how much i reserch i keep coming up with nothing.


 Hi & welcome

if your mother is in reciept of a UK pension she will get free healthcare

at your age you can't get free healthcare here unless you are paying the spanish equivalent of NI, ie you are working............

and you can't get unemployment benefit here in Spain unless you have been working here & paying NI........


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## flows (Mar 3, 2011)

hmmm am confused again now as judging by what Alcalaina said i can transfer my jobseekers over immediatly? mum is not old enough for pension,


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

flows said:


> hmmm am confused again now as judging by what Alcalaina said i can transfer my jobseekers over immediatly? mum is not old enough for pension,


yes, but as she says, only for 3 months - after that you're on your own & Spain has the highest unemployment in the Eurozone - over twice that in the UK

& yes, if you have been paying NI in the UK you might be able to get healthcare here - I don't know how that works though if you've been getting JSA


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## flows (Mar 3, 2011)

ok thank you


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## flows (Mar 3, 2011)

Alcalaina where can i get the E303 can i get it online? i dont really want to tell the jsa here to know about it yet as i have just applied for it. will be moving in about 7 weeks i think :confused2:


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

flows said:


> Alcalaina where can i get the E303 can i get it online? i dont really want to tell the jsa here to know about it yet as i have just applied for it. will be moving in about 7 weeks i think :confused2:


It has apparently changed its name to U2. I can't find an online version, these sites seem to indicate that you have to get it from the DSS office nearer the time.

Useful forms for social security rights

Jobseeker's Allowance in EEA countries - DWP


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## flows (Mar 3, 2011)

ahhh that makes sense


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

I hope it works out for you, funnily enough I was talking to someone earlier today about this very same thing, they'd tranferred their JSA over to Spain - well accept the lady at the unemployment office in Spain (INEM??? or summat??) refused to accept it, saying that there was no work to be found in this area !!? Not a pc thing to say and this person wasnt happy to say the least!! My point is that its worth checking the area that you are moving to, that there are jobs available for you to at least apply for.

As for healthcare, you need to make sure you have your European health insurance card with you before you leave

Jo xxx


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## 90199 (Mar 21, 2010)

I read in the newspaper recently, that there has been a recent European ruling, allowing immigrants from the EU residing in the U.K. to claim full benefits and health care.

I would have thought that if this is the case in the U.K. then it being a European Ruling the same would apply to U.K. citizens residing in Spain.

Or have I read it wrong??

Hepa


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Hepa said:


> I read in the newspaper recently, that there has been a recent European ruling, allowing immigrants from the EU residing in the U.K. to claim full benefits and health care.
> 
> I would have thought that if this is the case in the U.K. then it being a European Ruling the same would apply to U.K. citizens residing in Spain.
> 
> ...


Apparently the way it works is that an EU citizen may go into another EU country and is allowed to claim what that country offers. So if you go into Spain as a UK citizen you can only claim what the Spanish can claim. If you go into the UK as a Spanish citizen then you can claim what the British can claim and as we know, all countries offer different social security payments and the UK seems to be the most lenient 

Jo xxx


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## flows (Mar 3, 2011)

jojo said:


> I hope it works out for you, funnily enough I was talking to someone earlier today about this very same thing, they'd tranferred their JSA over to Spain - well accept the lady at the unemployment office in Spain (INEM??? or summat??) refused to accept it, saying that there was no work to be found in this area !!? Not a pc thing to say and this person wasnt happy to say the least!! My point is that its worth checking the area that you are moving to, that there are jobs available for you to at least apply for.
> 
> As for healthcare, you need to make sure you have your European health insurance card with you before you leave
> 
> Jo xxx


thanks Jo, i am moving to be with family so i cant choose the area  
i am just hoping that dont happen to me... i got no way of finding out before hand either.

where can i get a European health insurance card???? again am getting coinfused online by it all xx


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

flows said:


> where can i get a European health insurance card???? again am getting coinfused online by it all xx


You can do this online:
https://www.ehic.org.uk/Internet/home.do


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

flows said:


> thanks Jo, i am moving to be with family so i cant choose the area
> i am just hoping that dont happen to me... i got no way of finding out before hand either.
> 
> where can i get a European health insurance card???? again am getting coinfused online by it all xx


Well with the JSA thing, you MUST remember what exactly that money is for - its NOT simply to let you come over to Spain to visit family, its so that you can look for a job and if there are no jobs in the area then you should not claim the money cos you wont be using the money correctly and for that you must tell them - thats basically what had happened to this chap - he thought he'd get a trip to Spain out of it and as I say, thats not what the money is given for. Its an allowance to enable you to seek a job, and you should be going to places where you are likely to find one - thats the logic and the reason behind it!

For the health card you need to apply for one, heres a link I found that may help
http://www.eu-health-card.co.uk/

Jo xxx


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## flows (Mar 3, 2011)

i see your concern there Jo and i am intending to get a job over there and stay there long term, i dont see it as a holiday. many of my london friends think , 'aww lucky flows will get to lounge by the pool all day' but i know that i wont be. mum runs a resque cantre for animals so wil be assisting with that when i can. and looking for a full time job aswell. 

thanks for the link will go there now


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

flows said:


> i see your concern there Jo and i am intending to get a job over there and stay there long term, i dont see it as a holiday. many of my london friends think , 'aww lucky flows will get to lounge by the pool all day' but i know that i wont be. mum runs a resque cantre for animals so wil be assisting with that when i can. and looking for a full time job aswell.


I'm sure thats the case, but if the office you apply to say there are no jobs for them to get interviews for you to attend (cos that seems to be how some of the offices here in Spain see JSA), they may well say what this other chap was told. Just worth bearing in mind

Anyway, good kuck with it all and it would be nice if you let us know how you get on, cos I dont think we've ever heard from someone who has successfully received it - thats not to say people dont, but it would be nice to know how it works out

Jo xxx


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## flows (Mar 3, 2011)

I will do


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

flows said:


> thanks Jo, i am moving to be with family so i cant choose the area
> i am just hoping that dont happen to me... i got no way of finding out before hand either.
> 
> where can i get a European health insurance card???? again am getting coinfused online by it all xx


you can order one online

there's a link in the 'useful links' sticky at the top of the page


actually I've just seen that Alcalaina has put the link at post 14 of this thread too


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## flows (Mar 3, 2011)

got the link and all filled in , will be 7 working days i think x


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

flows said:


> i see your concern there Jo and i am intending to get a job over there and stay there long term, i dont see it as a holiday. many of my london friends think , 'aww lucky flows will get to lounge by the pool all day' but i know that i wont be. mum runs a resque cantre for animals so wil be assisting with that when i can. and looking for a full time job aswell.
> 
> thanks for the link will go there now


Realistically, you have less chance of finding a secure, well-paid job in Spain than in the UK. Nationwide there is an unemployment rate of over 20% and it's rising. 
There is unemployment of over 40% in the Estepona region.
Over four million Spanish people plus the many jobless British immigrants here will be ahead of you in the queue.
If you speak little or no Spanish your chances of finding a job will be even less.
You have obviously just lost your job in the UK and I sympathise. I know that many more jobs will go over the next few months but even so unemployment in the UK is now around 8%, a lot less than in Spain.
You may be entitled to three months' JSA in Spain but as Jo said actually getting it is another matter, especially in areas of high unemployment.
You say your mother runs an animal shelter....anywhere near Estepona/Marbella?
I ask as I'm also involved with an animal rescue charity which runs a perrera for abandoned dogs and cats.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

jojo said:


> I'm sure thats the case, but if the office you apply to say there are no jobs for them to get interviews for you to attend (cos that seems to be how some of the offices here in Spain see JSA), they may well say what this other chap was told. Just worth bearing in mind
> 
> Anyway, good kuck with it all and it would be nice if you let us know how you get on, cos I dont think we've ever heard from someone who has successfully received it - thats not to say people dont, but it would be nice to know how it works out
> 
> Jo xxx


It would be logical for the JSA not to be accepted in areas of high unemployment (aka known as most of Spain) as the condition of receiving JSA is that you will attend job interviews.
So...if you have no relevant skills, speak no Spanish.....why would you be able to draw JSA here as it would be pointless sending you for interviews
Plus the fact that, understandably,they will be keen to place Spanish people first.


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## flows (Mar 3, 2011)

mrypg9 said:


> Realistically, you have less chance of finding a secure, well-paid job in Spain than in the UK. Nationwide there is an unemployment rate of over 20% and it's rising.
> There is unemployment of over 40% in the Estepona region.
> Over four million Spanish people plus the many jobless British immigrants here will be ahead of you in the queue.
> If you speak little or no Spanish your chances of finding a job will be even less.
> ...


it is in la linea and also gibraltar so if your in the area let me know i have been pushed out of the job i had and also had loads of other problems but i must be due a decent time soon lol


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## flows (Mar 3, 2011)

well i am trying to learn spanish but cant grasp it well and there may be a few equal oppertunaties jobs with luck... i am compleatley out of options here in the uk so i got nothing to lose if it does go wrong


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## gill556 (Dec 23, 2010)

I could be wrong but I am sure that you need to be on JSA in the UK for a minimum of 6 months and unable to find a job before they will allow you to transfer it to another country.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

flows said:


> well i am trying to learn spanish but cant grasp it well and there may be a few equal oppertunaties jobs with luck... i am compleatley out of options here in the uk so i got nothing to lose if it does go wrong


what do you mean by an 'equal opportunity' job

and honestly - what will you do if you do get the JSA here & after 3 months you don't have a job?

I know we're all coming across doom & gloom, but I'm really interested


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

flows said:


> it is in la linea and also gibraltar so if your in the area let me know i have been pushed out of the job i had and also had loads of other problems but i must be due a decent time soon lol



Yes, that's half an hour from us. Is it the refugio Pedro runs? That's the only one I know of in La Linea.
That is a horrible town, by the way. Rough.
Have you explored all your UK options? The Job Centre surely should be helping you.
No-one can exist for long on the measly JSA.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Give the poor girl a break! She wants to come and be with her mum, and get some sunshine! Even if it´s only for a few months it will be a great experience. La Linea itself is a bit of a dump but there are some wonderful places nearby.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Alcalaina said:


> Give the poor girl a break! She wants to come and be with her mum, and get some sunshine! Even if it´s only for a few months it will be a great experience. La Linea itself is a bit of a dump but there are some wonderful places nearby.


Most people who want sunshine and to visit their mum don't expect the taxpayer to fund it, though, do they..
And she is genuinely looking for work, not much of which is available even for Spaniards around La Linea, which, sadly, is a rough, tough a***hole of a town, as you imply.
I have no objection to funding the unemployed - god knows they need help to find work - but those seeking a holiday can pay for it themselves!!!!


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## flows (Mar 3, 2011)

mrypg9 said:


> Most people who want sunshine and to visit their mum don't expect the taxpayer to fund it, though, do they..
> And she is genuinely looking for work, not much of which is available even for Spaniards around La Linea, which, sadly, is a rough, tough a***hole of a town, as you imply.
> I have no objection to funding the unemployed - god knows they need help to find work - but those seeking a holiday can pay for it themselves!!!!


I AM NOT GOING FOR A HOLIDAY LOL! and i will put everything i can into the econimy when i am able. 

if i dont find work i dont know what i will do, i really dont. but the uk is making me feel i dont belong here. i would rather fight for my right to live in spain than the uk. 


mrypg9 : 

it is not that one, it is shady paws and the GSPCA read something real sick though and wilol be doing what i can to fight against this ... (i know its off topic guys and sorry it just struck me)
Petitions on Facebook


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

flows said:


> I AM NOT GOING FOR A HOLIDAY LOL! and i will put everything i can into the econimy when i am able.
> 
> if i dont find work i dont know what i will do, i really dont. but the uk is making me feel i dont belong here. i would rather fight for my right to live in spain than the uk.
> 
> ...


Yes, I know you want to work. I guess you are young....and that's not a good place to be in the UK now. 
But you don't really have a 'right' to live in Spain anymore than I do .....we are allowed under EU law to take up residence here as we are in all EU member states. And I'm sure you'd agree that Spanish people have more rights to any job going than outsiders, even from the EU. I think the UK was wrong to allow unrestricted EU immigration from the former Soviet bloc when those states became EU members in May 2004.
I was in the UK last week and during my stay I noticed that I was not once served in shops, restaurants or hotels by a British-born person. While we have so many unemployed especially young people that seems quite wrong.
British jobs for Brits, Spanish jobs for Spaniards...apart from immigrants 
like Steve and Andy who are actuially in the business of creating jobs.

That link you gave....I think it's a little over-hysterical and hyped-up but I'm sure it has a basis of truth.
Education in animal care and welfare is badly needed here, sadly.


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## leedsutdgem (Jun 3, 2010)

mrypg9 said:


> Yes, I know you want to work. I guess you are young....and that's not a good place to be in the UK now.
> But you don't really have a 'right' to live in Spain anymore than I do .....we are allowed under EU law to take up residence here as we are in all EU member states. And I'm sure you'd agree that Spanish people have more rights to any job going than outsiders, even from the EU. I think the UK was wrong to allow unrestricted EU immigration from the former Soviet bloc when those states became EU members in May 2004.
> I was in the UK last week and during my stay I noticed that I was not once served in shops, restaurants or hotels by a British-born person. While we have so many unemployed especially young people that seems quite wrong.
> British jobs for Brits, Spanish jobs for Spaniards...apart from immigrants
> ...


Mrypg im sorry but I cannot agree with you when you say "Spanish jobs for Spaniards" What about people (like myself) who have come over here and have settled down with a spaniard and had a family here. Should a spaniard get a job before me?


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

leedsutdgem said:


> Mrypg im sorry but I cannot agree with you when you say "Spanish jobs for Spaniards" What about people (like myself) who have come over here and have settled down with a spaniard and had a family here. Should a spaniard get a job before me?


Depends on many factors - length of residence, length of marriage/cohabitation.
The same applies imo to foreign partners of UK citizens. But you should definitely take precedence over other immigrants, after Spaniards.
I know it sounds harsh but charity begins at home.


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## 90199 (Mar 21, 2010)

leedsutdgem said:


> Mrypg im sorry but I cannot agree with you when you say "Spanish jobs for Spaniards" What about people (like myself) who have come over here and have settled down with a spaniard and had a family here. Should a spaniard get a job before me?


To advocate Spanish jobs for Spanish people is also illegal, and contravenes E.U. legislation,

Discrimination and equality in employment

Hepa


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

leedsutdgem said:


> Mrypg im sorry but I cannot agree with you when you say "Spanish jobs for Spaniards" What about people (like myself) who have come over here and have settled down with a spaniard and had a family here. Should a spaniard get a job before me?


I don't agree either. We are all Europeans, and there is, quite rightly, free movement of labour and residence rights across the Union, which we as British citizens resident in Spain are all taking advantage of. 

It is completely against that principle to suggest that, for example, Spanish graduates shouldn't look for work in Britain or Germany in case a Brit or a German wants the job. The job should go to the person best qualified to do it, regardless of where they were born. The same applies at the other end of the scale.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

mrypg9 said:


> Depends on many factors - length of residence, length of marriage/cohabitation.
> The same applies imo to foreign partners of UK citizens. But you should definitely take precedence over other immigrants, after Spaniards.
> I know it sounds harsh but charity begins at home.


Work is not charity! And home is where the heart is!

Sorry, but if we are going to resort to clichés ...


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

What bothers me is that the Spanish SS system isnt as "good" as the UK SS which goes on indefinitely. In Spain when you lose your job, you have a limited time of being paid benefit, then it stops, whether you have found a job or not. So in a way I agree with what mrypg says, why should british come over and take jobs from Spanish who are paid nothing at all when they are able to still financially survive in the UK

Jo xxx


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Alcalaina said:


> Work is not charity! And home is where the heart is!
> 
> Sorry, but if we are going to resort to clichés ...


Four million Spaniards unemployed isn't a cliche, it's a fact. It's also a fact that the Spanish welfare system is not as generous as the UK system.
How can it be right to have so many young people unemployed in their own country while those of another country can take their jobs? This is draining the country that has to fund the welfare payments and encourages xenophobia and hopelessness in the indigenous population.
IMo this is an area where the 'left' seriously misunderstands the feelings of most British and Spanish people - or citizens of any state. The left thinks in abstractions : equality, brotherhood....most people consider real-life needs and consider it quite normal to prioritise your own family or nationality above others in such mundane situations as getting a job or a home, for example, or good education for their children.
Such issues rarely touch the privileged classes who often dismiss these feelings as racism. Failure to address these legitimate concerns has imo lead to the rise of the BNP and the equally odious EDL in areas of white as well as non-white deprivation.
Internationalism, like its dubious and ineffective ally, multiculturalism, are inventions of the 'progressive' middle-class. It's easy for wealthy people to be international - they and we can afford to. Poorer people live where they HAVE to, not where they choose to, as we fortunates have done.
It's easy to talk in left-wing cliches -for that's what 'internationalism 'boils down to - but most people, if asked to prioritise, would put family ahead of strangers.
That's not racist, it's normal.
As for it being 'illegal' to restrict work to nationals....are you sure? If so, why wasn't Gordon Brown locked up when he proclaimed he would create 'British jobs for British workers' over the oil workers dispute about Italian workers? 
And remember these protests were trades union led....
A right bunch of fascists, obviously


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Alcalaina said:


> I don't agree either. We are all Europeans, and there is, quite rightly, free movement of labour and residence rights across the Union, which we as British citizens resident in Spain are all taking advantage of.
> 
> It is completely against that principle to suggest that, for example, Spanish graduates shouldn't look for work in Britain or Germany in case a Brit or a German wants the job. The job should go to the person best qualified to do it, regardless of where they were born. The same applies at the other end of the scale.


It's not a matter of principle, it's because of a political settlement, i.e. the Single European Act which allows for the free movement of people, money, goods etc. across the EU.
No'principle' involved and much of the left were against Thatcher's signing of the SEA precisely because they saw the threat to wages and job security which would inevitably accompany the huge numbers of workers from the poorer EU states.
If the UK left the EU that 'principle' which most leftwingers saw as a concession to big business, not a stand for internationalism, would soon be disposed of.
I stood as a Parliamentary candidate at the time of the SEA and opposed it on those grounds.
The fact that you and I took advantage of this 'principle' to be able to spend our retirement in a country of our choice is a welcome offshoot of the legislation.
This 'principle' is of course exclusive in its application to citizens of EU states. The rest of the world - poor Ethiopians, Sopmalis etc. -has to surmount considerable hurdles when attempting to find work in EU states.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Hepa said:


> To advocate Spanish jobs for Spanish people is also illegal, and contravenes E.U. legislation,
> 
> Discrimination and equality in employment
> 
> Hepa



But that applies only to EU nationals who are actually permitted to work in another EU country. After the entry of the former Soviet-bloc states in May 2004 every other EU state apart from the UK and ROI severely restricted or stopped altogether work seeking immigrants from these states.
AS I was walking the dog just now it occurred to me that in truth the greatest beneficiaries of the SEA 1987 have been big business and retirees from Northern Europe.
Big business took advantage of skilled immigrants from Poland and other former Soviet states who would work long hours for lower wages and in conditions that British workers wouldn't accept.
I saw this at first hand in the area of the UK I lived in. There were few jobs and poor public transport. Most of the work that was available was in crop picking and food processing. This poorly paid back-breaking work was literally the only source of employment for local people. After 2004 nearly all these jobs were taken by Eastern Europeans organised by gang masters. Local people were effectively barred from the employment market, such as it was.
A whole shift at a local factory was made redundant, the job description slightly altered and the 'new' shift taken on consisted almost 100% of Latvians.
All over Europe jobs have been shifted to low wage EU states...a Peugeot factory in Trnava, Slovakia, is just one of many examples.
My partner and I have been happy to be beneficiaries of the SEA....we moved from UK to the CR, from there to Spain and in a couple of years will move from Spain to France ...to live in a property bought for pennies and reconstructed into a lucrative holiday let by a friend of my son. But that's what we Brits are...colonialists!
But how has the ordinary working person benefited from all this? In practice what has 'internationalism' meant for ordinary working people?
And why do liberal-minded countries such as Canada impose restrictions on immigration? 
The answer is simple: to protect their own workers.
So my principle is: when the economy is thriving, allow job migration with wage safeguards...no undercutting.
When times are hard as now, quotas and restrictions.
What's wrong with that


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Its actually common courtesy to not come and take jobs when there are so few to go round. Its a bit like gatecrashing a party and taking the last sausage roll lol !!!!!

Jo xxx


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

mrypg9 said:


> So my principle is: when the economy is thriving, allow job migration with wage safeguards...no undercutting.
> When times are hard as now, quotas and restrictions.
> What's wrong with that




When the chips are down you look after number one.
(Keeping up the good work of maintaining clichés, or idioms as we like to call them...). If you really need a job you're going to take it and not worry about the native population.

I like the idea of when the economy's thriving allow job migration, but the world isn't like that if you're further down the scale than most of us are. Migrant workers from the Sub Sahara aren't going to think twice about "Is there a Spaniard who wants this job before I take it?" He's going to grab it with both hands and hope that he and his family can live a little more comfortably. Or were you just talking about white collar jobs?


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Pesky Wesky said:


> When the chips are down you look after number one.
> (Keeping up the good work of maintaining clichés, or idioms as we like to call them...). If you really need a job you're going to take it and not worry about the native population.
> 
> I like the idea of when the economy's thriving allow job migration, but the world isn't like that if you're further down the scale than most of us are. Migrant workers from the Sub Sahara aren't going to think twice about "Is there a Spaniard who wants this job before I take it?" He's going to grab it with both hands and hope that he and his family can live a little more comfortably. Or were you just talking about white collar jobs?


I suspect we mean (well what I mean is..) countries that have more available jobs and where people simply upsticks and move to another country just because they like the climate/lifestyle/views better - people like me in fact!! I for one, would never come to Spain and take a job that a Spanish person should have, when I could stay in the UK and get a job just as easily. 

....... that said, I think its different for those who are married to Spanish people and have family and children here. They of course are people who need to be here.

Jo xxx


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

jojo said:


> I suspect we mean (well what I mean is..) countries that have more available jobs and where people simply upsticks and move to another country because they like the climate/lifestyle/views better - people like me in fact!! I for one, would never come to Spain and take a job that a Spanish person should have, when I could stay in the UK and get a job just as easily
> 
> Jo xxx



Ahhh, but isn't the thing here that it's not easy in neither the UK nor Spain?


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Ahhh, but isn't the thing here that it's not easy in neither the UK nor Spain?


But it is easier, much easier to get work in the UK if you're English (or even if you're not) If you are a UK resident and living there, then you also have the benefit system to fall back on, unlike in Spain. 

When I was due to go back to England last summer, I had two jobs lined up that I could have more or less walked into AND I would have been eligible for benefits. 

Jo xxx


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

jojo said:


> But it is easier, much easier to get work in the UK if you're English (or even if you're not)
> 
> Jo xxx


True, absolutely true. I was just thinking that if you've been unemployed in the UK, and you're offered smth in Spain,
at this point in time you're not really going to think about the poor Spaniard who's losing out if the job's given to you. 
Of couse this is a totally hypothetical scenario 'cos I can't imagine who would offer a non Spanish speaking Brit a job nowadays.


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## 90199 (Mar 21, 2010)

Pesky Wesky said:


> True, absolutely true. I was just thinking that if you've been unemployed in the UK, and you're offered smth in Spain,
> at this point in time you're not really going to think about the poor Spaniard who's losing out if the job's given to you.
> Of couse this is a totally hypothetical scenario 'cos I can't imagine who would offer a non Spanish speaking Brit a job nowadays.


I experienced such an offer recently. The conditions where to be a native English speaker and on no account whatsoever to speak Spanish. Teachers assistant, teaching the youth of the island to speak English.

I declined the offer, I have 50 years of work experience and enough is enough,

Hepa


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Hepa said:


> I experienced such an offer recently. The conditions where to be a native English speaker and on no account whatsoever to speak Spanish. Teachers assistant, teaching the youth of the island to speak English.
> 
> I declined the offer, I have 50 years of work experience and enough is enough,
> 
> Hepa



Absolutely!!

But you could go on a voluntary basis every now and again so that they can practice on you. That might be fun!


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## 90199 (Mar 21, 2010)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Absolutely!!
> 
> But you could go on a voluntary basis every now and again so that they can practice on you. That might be fun!


I offered, but it seems volunteers are not allowed, elf and safety perhaps.

We help others on an evening over a drink or two, one young guy is about to be trained for air traffic control in Holland and needs to practice his English, another fellow, much older, lived in Australia for many years, we have conversations in English, he likes to keep his hand in because his family are born and bred Aussies, and don't speak Spanish,

Hepa


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Hepa said:


> I offered, but it seems volunteers are not allowed, elf and safety perhaps.
> 
> 
> Hepa


Good one Hepa!


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## nigele2 (Dec 25, 2009)

Some great stuff from Mary on this thread me thinks. :clap2:

I noted awhile back some people here on the forum mentioning some signs of tension between spaniards and foreigners. Has anyone seen any signs of this being on the increase?

I certainly haven't in Madrid or Asturias but then I don't live or visit expat areas. 

As for brits looking to clean toilets in Spain (you know the "failed in UK so thought I'd go to spain where it is so much easier to find success " types I'd send them home  

ps As for EU law - I'd ignore it. Spain hasn't got any money so a fine would not be a problem


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

nigele2 said:


> Some great stuff from Mary on this thread me thinks. :clap2:
> 
> I noted awhile back some people here on the forum mentioning some signs of tension between spaniards and foreigners. Has anyone seen any signs of this being on the increase?
> 
> ...


Yes, Nigel, there is anti-immigrant graffiti on walls round here as well as anti-developer graffiti. Many Brits do not consider themselves as 'immigrants' as we know so don't think it's aimed at them.
Let's get real: most developed countries restrict immigration and allow immigrants in on a quota basis to fill jobs they can't fill at home. Why? To protect the livelihoods of their own citizens.
What on earth is wrong with that? Wouldn't you give a job to a family member or friend before a stranger? That is what normal human beings do and imo this lack of understanding of normal human sentiment is why people turn their backs on the 'internationalist' left. ( I don't include Alcalaina in this category but I have encountered far too many of this kind).
The EU is not based on internationalist principles. It began life as the European Coal and Steel Community and its aim was to restrict Germany's access to materiel useful for waging war. It evolved over the years as a protectionist trading bloc to counter the other emerging global trade blocs in North America and SouthEast Asia. It allows freedom of movement only to member state citizens and if no quotas have been imposed by national governments.
Its beneficiaries have been big business and comparatively wealthy retirees from Northern Europe who can now choose to spend their pensions in Torremolinos rather than Torquay.
Why did Japanese car manufacturers locate in the UK? Looser UK labour laws and access to European markets.
The EU is a fact and I do not advocate withdrawal. But to see who the beneficiaries are consider that there are no enclaves of Spanish, Italian or Greek pensioners in Bognor, Torquay or Skegness.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

jojo said:


> Its actually common courtesy to not come and take jobs when there are so few to go round. Its a bit like gatecrashing a party and taking the last sausage roll lol !!!!!
> 
> Jo xxx


Jo, you manage to encapsulate in a couple of sentences what I need a hundred paragraphs to get over!:clap2:


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## gus-lopez (Jan 4, 2010)

This has just reminded me of when we moved to Devon in 1984. Never a week passed without someone commenting about " coming down here taking all our jobs, putting up the house prices, etc, etc." I used to be quite polite at the start , unfortunately it wears thin in the end & eventually I'd point out that A ) I was only here because they hadn't been able to find anyone who was qualified to work with ammonia, or wasn't terrified of it & therefore I was in fact educating some of them & B) I wasn't here by choice but had my arm twisted by my wife when in reality I'd really wanted to move to Spain !


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## flows (Mar 3, 2011)

just want to say that in the uk priority is given to people who are not british and all my time of being here i myself have felt like the forigener if europe is going to be embracing people to come and live in their countrys then they should expect to give jobs to EVERYONE regardles of origin. i can not get a decent job here because i am a british single woman with no family. so im going elsewhere to seek it or i will be forever scrounging of the benifits. i dont want to do that i want to work! i am 25 so not that young and have tried in every way to get a decent life here but am kicked down every time. hope this makes things a bit clearer


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

flows said:


> just want to say that in the uk priority is given to people who are not british and all my time of being here i myself have felt like the forigener if europe is going to be embracing people to come and live in their countrys then they should expect to give jobs to EVERYONE regardles of origin. i can not get a decent job here because i am a british single woman with no family. so im going elsewhere to seek it or i will be forever scrounging of the benifits. i dont want to do that i want to work! i am 25 so not that young and have tried in every way to get a decent life here but am kicked down every time. hope this makes things a bit clearer


Priority is given to these people because employers know they will work for lower wages and under worse conditions than most British workers and imo it's wrong.
I think that it is appalling that so many young people -and you are young -are in the position you are in. 
But that's my point: it was wrong for the UK to allow workers from other EU states to undercut British wages and thus take British jobs. The same principle applies to Spain.
But none of that alters the fact that you most probably won't get JSA in Spain, there are very few jobs going and you are least likely to get one of them as Spanish people tend to look after their own (which is what we should have done) and many jobs are 'passed on' and aren't advertised. The charity I'm involved with has a vacancy for an administrator...it's in the area you want to come to where unemployment is currently at 30% plus. But we already have someone lined up to take that job...someone we know.
I think that successive UK Governments have treated young people in a very shabby way and I really do know where you're coming from - I worked with young people. 
But none of that alters the fact that you are very unlikely to find work in Spain.
It's not impossible but is highly unlikely.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

flows said:


> just want to say that in the uk priority is given to people who are not british and all my time of being here i myself have felt like the forigener if europe is going to be embracing people to come and live in their countrys then they should expect to give jobs to EVERYONE regardles of origin. i can not get a decent job here because i am a british single woman with no family. so im going elsewhere to seek it or i will be forever scrounging of the benifits. i dont want to do that i want to work! i am 25 so not that young and have tried in every way to get a decent life here but am kicked down every time. hope this makes things a bit clearer


Its clear and its admirable, but it doesnt necessarily change the way things are here in Spain. The UK mentality hasnt reached Spain and there is a tendancy to give jobs, not only to Spanish nationals, but to their friends and family first.

Jo xxx


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