# Spanish citizenship means...?



## AllHeart (Nov 22, 2013)

There is so much information on the forum about living in Spain and it seems people on the forum are not Spanish citizens, but residents. So I'm quite confused as to what to do if and when my Spanish citizenship is approved. So I know my question may not be appropriate on this forum, but I'll give it a shot anyway... If I get approved for my Spanish citizenship, do I need to register for anything else? Or do I just go to Spain, with my citizenship automatically having registered me to be able to live in Spain, work in Spain, file income taxes and give me access to healthcare? I hope that's not too much to ask.


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

AllHeart said:


> There is so much information on the forum about living in Spain and it seems people on the forum are not Spanish citizens, but residents. So I'm quite confused as to what to do if and when my Spanish citizenship is approved. So I know my question may not be appropriate on this forum, but I'll give it a shot anyway... If I get approved for my Spanish citizenship, do I need to register for anything else? Or do I just go to Spain, with my citizenship automatically having registered me to be able to live in Spain, work in Spain, file income taxes and give me access to healthcare? I hope that's not too much to ask.


On what grounds are you applying for Spanish Citizenship/Nationality?

Normally, unless you have Spanish parents or have married a Spaniard, then you have to have resided in Spain for over 10 years. Even then it seems to take an age.

However, once you have Spanish Nationality (and therefore, theoretically, renounced your Canadian citizenship), you need nothing else.


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## kalohi (May 6, 2012)

No personal experience with this, but what comes to mind is that you will be required to have a DNI because everyone over the age of 14 is required by law to have one. Or maybe they issue you a DNI when they give you citizenship? Of course you'd also need a Spanish passport to travel to Spain because you will no longer be able to use your Canadian passport. And once in Spain you should register at your town hall (empadronarte), as all residents in Spain should no matter what the nationality. You need to do this to be able to vote. Then you will need a número de seguridad social to be able to work and access health care. That's all I can think of offhand.


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## AllHeart (Nov 22, 2013)

snikpoh said:


> On what grounds are you applying for Spanish Citizenship/Nationality?
> 
> Normally, unless you have Spanish parents or have married a Spaniard, then you have to have resided in Spain for over 10 years. Even then it seems to take an age.
> 
> However, once you have Spanish Nationality (and therefore, theoretically, renounced your Canadian citizenship), you need nothing else.


Hi Snikpoh.

Thank you for your reply. I was born a Spaniard with a Spanish citizenship and had a passport. I was born in Sweden, where children still take on the citizenship of their father. So even though my mother was Swedish and I was born in Sweden and my parents were married, I took on my father's Spanish citizenship. We moved to Canada 49 years ago, when I was a year old. When I became a Canadian citizen, my parents gave up my Spanish citizenship. The Consulate General of Spain in Toronto approved my Spanish citizenship, but the final decision comes from the Embassy of Spain in Sweden. If approved, I will hold dual citizenship with Spain and Canada. I plan to make a permanent move to Spain. So what I'm doing is reinstating my Spanish citizenship.

I noticed you don't say "Spanish citizenship." "Spanish Nationality" is what I'm supposed to say?


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## AllHeart (Nov 22, 2013)

kalohi said:


> No personal experience with this, but what comes to mind is that you will be required to have a DNI because everyone over the age of 14 is required by law to have one. Or maybe they issue you a DNI when they give you citizenship? Of course you'd also need a Spanish passport to travel to Spain because you will no longer be able to use your Canadian passport. And once in Spain you should register at your town hall (empadronarte), as all residents in Spain should no matter what the nationality. You need to do this to be able to vote. Then you will need a número de seguridad social to be able to work and access health care. That's all I can think of offhand.


Hi Kalohi.

That's a lot of information. Thank you. The Consulate of Spain said that they are giving me a Spanish passport upon approval of Spanish citizenship. Do I apply for a DNI now or when I move to Spain? How can I register at a town hall when I don't know where I'm going to be living and will probably be moving around before settling down? Do I apply for a numero de seguridad social here or in Spain?


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## zenkarma (Feb 15, 2013)

AllHeart said:


> If approved, I will hold dual citizenship with Spain and Canada.


You won't!

Spain doesn't allow dual citizenship. You'll have to renounce your Canadian Citizenship to gain Spanish.

That's the law, regardless of what people say about how it works in practice.


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## AllHeart (Nov 22, 2013)

zenkarma said:


> You won't!
> 
> Spain doesn't allow dual citizenship. You'll have to renounce your Canadian Citizenship to gain Spanish.
> 
> That's the law, regardless of what people say about how it works in practice.


Hi Zenkarma. 

I don't want to come off as being argumentative, but the papers I signed with the Consulate General of Spain are for dual citizenship. I don't think he would do this outside of Spanish law. Different countries have different arrangements regarding citizenship. So it seems Canada and Spain allow dual citizenship.


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## zenkarma (Feb 15, 2013)

AllHeart said:


> So it seems Canada and Spain allow dual citizenship.


They don't.

I would check up on this if I were you.

Spain only allows dual citizenship with certain latin america countries.

I'm not going to argue about this. A quick google search produces the following and I advise you to read it:


In becoming a Spanish citizen, you may or may not obtain dual nationality or be required to renounce your current citizenship. Citizens of Latin American countries, Andorra, Portugal, the Philippines, or Equatorial Guinea are not required to renounce their citizenship, and their dual nationality is bilaterally recognized.

In other cases things can go a bit differently. For example, UK citizens, when becoming a Spanish citizen, are required to renounce their previous citizenship, yet this is not allowed by the UK. This means that you would then have two nationalities (but not dual nationality) as Spain would not recognize the UK nationality.

US citizens, if they do not intend to relinquish their US citizenship, may renounce their US citizenship to the Spanish government as required to obtain Spanish citizenship, but still retain their US citizenship anyway. Needless to say, Spain would not recognize the US nationality. 

In the case of citizens of other countries, it is possible you may lose your original citizenship upon acquiring Spanish citizenship.

As a general rule, if you are not a citizen of a Latin American country, Andorra, Portugal, the Philippines, or Equatorial Guinea and you wish to retain your original citizenship as well as acquire Spanish citizenship, you should consult a legal professional for the latest policies regarding Spain and your country of original citizenship.

Where possible, you should always use the passport of the country you’re entering. For example, if you have US and Spanish citizenship, use your Spanish passport when arriving in Spain and your US passport when arriving in the US.​
Source: Spanish Citizenship and Dual Nationality : How to become a Spanish Citizen: Spain Expat


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## kalohi (May 6, 2012)

AllHeart said:


> Hi Kalohi.
> 
> That's a lot of information. Thank you. The Consulate of Spain said that they are giving me a Spanish passport upon approval of Spanish citizenship. Do I apply for a DNI now or when I move to Spain? How can I register at a town hall when I don't know where I'm going to be living and will probably be moving around before settling down? Do I apply for a numero de seguridad social here or in Spain?


Frankly I have no idea how you can get a DNI. I know how it works for Spanish citizens born in and residing in Spain (such as my kids) but not for brand new adult citizens who are outside the country. Why don't you ask at the Spanish consulate? 

As for the empadronamiento, once you have an address here you should go to the local town hall with your DNI and some proof of residency in that town (rental contract, for instance). Some town halls get a bit picky and ask for more paperwork. You should do that each time you move.

I don't know how you'd get a social security number either. My kids (Spanish citizens) got theirs when they were born. I'm wondering if it would be the same process for you as for us foreigners. We have to go to the local Social Security office to apply.

Sorry I can't be of more help.


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## AllHeart (Nov 22, 2013)

zenkarma said:


> They don't.
> 
> I would check up on this if I were you.
> 
> ...


OK, we'll have a proper argument, then.  Your link doesn't work on my computer, so I can't check the basis of your argument. The best way to argue this from my side is for me to contact the Consulate General of Spain in Toronto. I'll do that and get back to you so we can continue arguing.


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## kalohi (May 6, 2012)

zenkarma said:


> They don't.
> 
> I would check up on this if I were you.
> 
> ...


Just the other day I just posted a link to the Ministerio de Justicia website where it states exactly what you've said. Here it is again.  I don't think the information can get any more official than when it comes from the Ministerio de Justicia de España.


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## AllHeart (Nov 22, 2013)

kalohi said:


> Frankly I have no idea how you can get a DNI. I know how it works for Spanish citizens born in and residing in Spain (such as my kids) but not for brand new adult citizens who are outside the country. Why don't you ask at the Spanish consulate?
> 
> As for the empadronamiento, once you have an address here you should go to the local town hall with your DNI and some proof of residency in that town (rental contract, for instance). Some town halls get a bit picky and ask for more paperwork. You should do that each time you move.
> 
> ...


I like that you call me a "brand new adult citizen." This has a special ring to it at 50.  So I'm going to use that description. 

Yes, you're right, that I should contact the Consulate General of Spain. I need to contact them to properly argue with Zenkarma anyway. So I'll also ask them about the empadronamiento and DNI. Thank you for your help. I'll post here when I get the info, just in case anyone else needs this info at some point.


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## AllHeart (Nov 22, 2013)

kalohi said:


> Just the other day I just posted a link to the Ministerio de Justicia website where it states exactly what you've said. Here it is again.  I don't think the information can get any more official than when it comes from the Ministerio de Justicia de España.


Thanks for that link, Kalohi. You guys are right, that there is no mention there of dual citizenship with Canada. I found a website with an excellent description of the Empadronamiento that you mentioned. It's here: Certificado de Empadronamiento | AngloINFO Spain So that's definitely something I'll have to register for once I get to Spain, especially since I need this to get a health card.

I've just written the Consulate of Spain in Toronto to get clarification on the issues you guys brought up, and asked these three questions:

_#1. My recollection is that you and the Consulate General told me that I am applying for dual citizenship with Canada and Spain. Yet all information I find points to that Spain does not allow dual citizenship with Canada. Did I misunderstand you both, or am I indeed allowed dual citizenship with Canada and Spain? 

#2. As a Spanish citizen, do I have to apply for the DNI (documento nacional de identidad)? Or is this going to be given to me by the Consulate General/Embassy of Spain? 

#3. I also recall that you said my Spanish passport will come from the Embassy of Spain, upon their approval of my Spanish citizenship. Do I recall this correctly?_

Just in case someone is interested in these questions, I'll let you know when I know.

Thanks again for all your help here. I think of you on this forum as my angels in Spain.


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## NickZ (Jun 26, 2009)

Normally banning dual citizenship means when you naturalize. If Allheart is naturalizing then the ban becomes an issue.

OTOH countries that bestow citizenship at birth don't ask the infant to choose. Some countries ask them to choose when they become adults but I don't think this is common.

Canada I think started allowing dual citizenship in 1976. A child born before that was considered only Canadian under Canadian law. 

Now that didn't mean a second country couldn't say the same thing about the child. 

When I was born both Canada and Italy didn't allow dual citizenship. They both gave me citizenship at birth. All the ban on dual citizenship meant was the two countries ignored each other.


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## 90199 (Mar 21, 2010)

zenkarma said:


> You won't!
> 
> Spain doesn't allow dual citizenship. You'll have to renounce your Canadian Citizenship to gain Spanish.
> 
> That's the law, regardless of what people say about how it works in practice.


Don't know about Canada, however, the U.K. consulate inform me, if you have U.K. Nationality, the U.K. will not accept denunciation of U.K. nationality and regard you as a dual national once you have gained Spanish Nationality

Apart from certain exceptions, former colonies, Spain will not recognise dual nationality.


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## AllHeart (Nov 22, 2013)

You guys are all right in a sense. Nick said it best by saying, "All the ban on dual citizenship meant was the two countries ignored each other." So when I received the answer from the Consulate, I had a good chuckle in reading this between the lines in answer #1. So here are the answers from the Consulate of Spain:

1. Dual citizenship with Canada does not exist because Spain and Canada did not sign any agreement about this matter. Canada does not mind how many citizenships you hold but Spain has always regulated it, so it depends on every particular case. In your case, as you are applying to regain your Spanish citizenship, you are not required to renounce to your Canadian nationality. What it means that you can still use your Canadian nationality but it does not mean that you are considered SPANISH CANADIAN. For Spain you will just be Spanish and for Canada you will be Canadian. 

2. If you are going to live in Spain, you can apply for your DNI in Spain. The Consulates are not allowed to issue this document. You will need to go to the Police Station of the place where you are living in Spain.

3. Once we get the approval from the Consulate of Spain in Sweden, I will contact you so that you can apply for your passport in person. You will need to come to the Consulate. The passport will be ready in about 3 to 4 weeks from the application date. You can come and pick it up yourself from this Consulate after that time.

After writing this, I noticed Kalohi mentioned the social security number, which I looked up and found here: Seguridad Social:Trabajadores
with a simplified explanation here: How to apply for a Social Security Number in Spain: Modelo TA1

So I wrote back to the Consulate the following question:

I forgot to ask one more question, regarding the Afiliación y Número de la Seguridad Social. My understanding is once I have my DNI, then I use my DNI and passport to get my Afiliación y Número de la Seguridad Social. Is this correct? 

The Consulate responded,
The process to get affiliated to the SEGURIDAD SOCIAL is the competence of another Ministry and the Consulates do not have competence to do so. Once you go to Spain, they will inform you of the details. If you want to ask any questions regarding this matter, you can also call the Social Services Office in our Embassy of Spain in Ottawa, who belong to that Ministry and they will able to answer your questions on this matter.

It's becoming clearer to me now the steps that need to be taken, which seem to be as follows:
1. Get Spanish citizenship approval.
2. Get job for Spain.
3. Get passport.
4. Get apartment in Spain.
5. Move to Spain (the following steps happen in Spain).
6. Open bank account.
7. Register for Certificado de Empadronamiento.
8. Register for DNI (national identity card).
9. Register for health card.
10. Register as self-employed (autonomo) with Securidad Social.


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## kalohi (May 6, 2012)

AllHeart said:


> You guys are all right in a sense. Nick said it best by saying, "All the ban on dual citizenship meant was the two countries ignored each other." So when I received the answer from the Consulate, I had a good chuckle in reading this between the lines in answer #1. So here are the answers from the Consulate of Spain:
> 
> 1. Dual citizenship with Canada does not exist because Spain and Canada did not sign any agreement about this matter. Canada does not mind how many citizenships you hold but Spain has always regulated it, so it depends on every particular case. In your case, as you are applying to regain your Spanish citizenship, you are not required to renounce to your Canadian nationality. What it means that you can still use your Canadian nationality but it does not mean that you are considered SPANISH CANADIAN. For Spain you will just be Spanish and for Canada you will be Canadian.
> 
> ...


You very well might get stuck at your number 2. There are 6 million Spaniards who are stuck there.

But assuming you get past number 2... you should get your DNI as soon as you arrive in Spain. So that should be number 6. Everywhere you go they will ask you for it. However there might be a wait to get an appointment. You book it online, so maybe once you know your flight dates you should book your DNI appointment. 

You should register as self-employed and get your social security number before registering for your health card, because being self imployed gives you the right to use state health care. 

I am wondering, though - if you get a job in Spain why would you register as self-employed?


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## AllHeart (Nov 22, 2013)

kalohi said:


> You very well might get stuck at your number 2. There are 6 million Spaniards who are stuck there.
> 
> But assuming you get past number 2... you should get your DNI as soon as you arrive in Spain. So that should be number 6. Everywhere you go they will ask you for it. However there might be a wait to get an appointment. You book it online, so maybe once you know your flight dates you should book your DNI appointment.
> 
> ...


Kalohi, thanks for your help.

I might be stuck at #1, since I haven't been approved yet for my Spanish citizenship. :fingerscrossed:

Re #2, I'm in training for a job right now working for an Australian company, who will allow me to start here in Canada, then continue with them in Spain. I should know if the job is possible within about two weeks of training. This job is a self-employed job.

I put the sequence as above before getting my DNI, because in order to get my DNI, I understand that I need to have a fixed address, as the address on the DNI changes whenever I move. Would I not need to prove where I live through my Certificado de Empadronamiento? In order to get my Certificado de Empadronamiento, I need to present my rental contract agreement. Is this correct?


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## kalohi (May 6, 2012)

AllHeart said:


> I put the sequence as above before getting my DNI, because in order to get my DNI, I understand that I need to have a fixed address, as the address on the DNI changes whenever I move. Would I not need to prove where I live through my Certificado de Empadronamiento? In order to get my Certificado de Empadronamiento, I need to present my rental contract agreement. Is this correct?


Yes, you're right, they will ask for a certificado de empadronamiento to prove your address is what you say it is when you go for your DNI. I suppose you could use your Spanish passport as ID to empadronarte?? (I know they'll accept foreigners' passports.) I hope they don't get you in a vicious circle and say that you need your DNI for the empadronamiento and you need the empadronamiento to get your DNI.


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## kalohi (May 6, 2012)

At any rate you should still apply for autonomo before getting your health card, because your autonomo status is what will allow you to be eligible to get your health card.


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## zenkarma (Feb 15, 2013)

Hepa said:


> ...however, the U.K. consulate inform me, if you have U.K. Nationality, the U.K. will not accept denunciation of U.K. nationality...


I'm sorry Hepa but this is just nonsense.

There is a very specific procedure for a UK Citizen to renounce UK Citizenship. Not only can you do it, it's detailed out there on the FCO website. I've posted the link to it once on here but I can't find it at the moment.

So whoever told you that is talking rubbish.


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## AllHeart (Nov 22, 2013)

Wow, you guys are so incredibly helpful! To think that just last night I figured I could just waltz into Spain with my citizenship and passport in tow and set up shop. Thank you so much for figuring all these extra steps with me. 

So I today spoke with the Embassy of Spain in Ottawa to get clarification re the order of things, and the person I spoke with was - as always - awesome. I'll post this info here in case others need this as well. The steps written above are the same, except #8 and #9 are switched. So here is the low-down... 

1. Get Spanish citizenship approval.
2. Get job for Spain.
3. Get passport.
4. Get apartment in Spain.
5. Move to Spain (the following steps happen in Spain).
6. Open bank account.
7. Register for Certificado de Empadronamiento.
8. Register for health card.
9. Register for DNI (national identity card).
10. Register as self-employed (autonomo) with Securidad Social. If not self-employed, have employer apply for you.

#7. For Certificado de Empadronamiento, you need to provide passport and proof of address (such as apartment lease or utility bill). Here's the link with info: Certificado de Empadronamiento | AngloINFO Spain

#8. Once you have #7, you can apply for your health card. You can see this is said in the link given in #7.

#9. In order to get your DNI, you need to have #7. This is found on the DNI website, here Portal Oficial sobre el DNI electrÃ³nico :. Proceso de Expedición. If you look under paragraph 3, point 3, you will see the requirement for #7.

#10. You need your DNI to get your Securidad Social. There's a really good flow chart explaining the process of getting your Securidad Social on this website: Seguridad Social:Useful Information. The DNI requirement is shown in the box "What paperwork is required?"

Thank you all again for all your help in finding these answers. Hopefully others can benefit from this discussion too.


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