# newbee wanting to move to benidorm



## benidorm wannabe

lane:lane:lane:lane:lane:lane:lane::

HELLO ALL

wanting to bring the wife and 4 kids to benidorm think the fatha in law n sista in law will be joining us 
im looking at buying a bar,sarny shop or some small business sometime this year i have looked at many website with business for sale
any advice would be great i dont expect it to be easy 
thanks


----------



## jojo

benidorm wannabe said:


> lane:lane:lane:lane:lane:lane:lane::
> 
> HELLO ALL
> 
> wanting to bring the wife and 4 kids to benidorm think the fatha in law n sista in law will be joining us
> im looking at buying a bar,sarny shop or some small business sometime this year i have looked at many website with business for sale
> any advice would be great i dont expect it to be easy
> thanks


Welcome to the forum. Financially you'd probably be better off using the money you're planning to buy a bar etc with, to live on while you're here. 

What you need to do before anything else is have a look through the forum to get an idea of the economic issues in Spain and also come over and do a fact finding trip to see what you think, ask around, find out where would be a good place to live, schools etc - get a feel for things

Jo xxx


----------



## 90199

What Jo says is correct, "Look before you leap," 

Hepa


----------



## Pesky Wesky

benidorm wannabe said:


> lane:lane:lane:lane:lane:lane:lane::
> 
> HELLO ALL
> 
> wanting to bring the wife and 4 kids to benidorm think the fatha in law n sista in law will be joining us
> im looking at buying a bar,sarny shop or some small business sometime this year i have looked at many website with business for sale
> any advice would be great i dont expect it to be easy
> thanks


Hi there!
Can I ask why you want to come to Spain?
If you think you'll find work I can tell you it is not easy to come by, especially in the bar/ cafe trade, in fact you'll find recent posts about how many bars are going to close in the next few months.
You'll need to do lots of research and you'll need a bionic calculator to do all the working out for you!
Good luck


----------



## benidorm wannabe

Pesky Wesky said:


> Hi there!
> Can I ask why you want to come to Spain?
> If you think you'll find work I can tell you it is not easy to come by, especially in the bar/ cafe trade, in fact you'll find recent posts about how many bars are going to close in the next few months.
> You'll need to do lots of research and you'll need a bionic calculator to do all the working out for you!
> Good luck


hi cheers for reply 

wanting a change of life i am pruod to be english but goverment are not helping and dont want to bring up my kids here 
im hopeing to BUY a bar,cafe or sandwich shop
like i say it wont be easy but im sure hard work pays 
we have holiday'd in spain many times


----------



## christykelly

benidorm wannabe said:


> hi cheers for reply
> 
> wanting a change of life i am pruod to be english but goverment are not helping and dont want to bring up my kids here
> im hopeing to BUY a bar,cafe or sandwich shop
> like i say it wont be easy but im sure hard work pays
> we have holiday'd in spain many times


Im headin there myself in a month to live, it wont be easy, but im sure you have thought this out alot, i was there a 2 months ago for a week for fact finding mission, some bars are getting brutal trade but some are doing great even during the week, i rec is to go there have a good look around. go to diff bars in diff areas and see what trade there doing, do it soon because in summer all bars are busy and in winter only half would be busy


----------



## Pesky Wesky

benidorm wannabe said:


> hi cheers for reply
> 
> wanting a change of life i am pruod to be english but goverment are not helping and dont want to bring up my kids here
> im hopeing to BUY a bar,cafe or sandwich shop
> like i say it wont be easy but im sure hard work pays
> we have holiday'd in spain many times


Please please read threads about work, unemployment, jobs, education, language... I know you want to buy a business here - and that's even more scary. You stand to lose a hell of a lot. Remember 20% of Spaniards are unemployed. I'm sure there are a few hard workers included in that percentage, hard workers who speak fluent Spanish...
Of course, coming here and looking at businesses, and living costs, and schools is the first priority.


----------



## jojo

All I can say is that if you seriously think for a minute that it will be easier, more relaxing and even half as profitable than buying a bar/business in the UK, think again! Come over and have a proper look, not a holiday but a objective, fact finding trip. Work out costs, profit margins, taxes, permits, rules and regulations, schooling, housing, cost of living....

Whatever you decide tho, please dont burn your UK bridges - just in case!

Jo xxx


----------



## xabiaxica

benidorm wannabe said:


> lane:lane:lane:lane:lane:lane:lane::
> 
> HELLO ALL
> 
> wanting to bring the wife and 4 kids to benidorm think the fatha in law n sista in law will be joining us
> im looking at buying a bar,sarny shop or some small business sometime this year i have looked at many website with business for sale
> any advice would be great i dont expect it to be easy
> thanks


think of a sunny seaside place in the UK

Devon, Cornwall, somewhere like that


would you buy a bar/sarny shop or something like that there?


----------



## christykelly

The spanish language will be very important, I would advise you to employ a spanish person who can speak spanish, this will help out in many ways, atracting spanish people and talking to them in the off season, when letters come and there in spanish. There is a little negativaty, but if you do your homework and realize how big this task is im sure you will be fine. give yourself lists of what you have to do, schools, agents, places to live, who you have to speak to over there.

unemployment rate in spain wont be your case as you will have your own bisiness and most of costomers will be on holiday.


----------



## Stravinsky

christykelly said:


> T There is a little negativaty, but if you do your homework and realize how big this task is im sure you will be fine.



You didnt see the TV prog then about the ex pats that moved to Benidorm to take on a bar. I think it was about 6 - 12 months after they opened. They sat there all day waiting for customers that never came. They got ripped off by people, and he left and went back to the UK to get work, leaving her there with a long lease.

I'm afraid out of all the businesses I would consider, opening or taking on ..... a bar in Benidorm would be down right at the bottom of the list. You have to be extremely lucky and work very very hard with long hours to make a go of it. The books are usually wrong, and you only have to wandser around the streets of Benidorm to see what your chances are. I know that sounds terrible. I also know of people that did the same thing despite advice to the contrary and were trying to sell their lease some 6 months later.


----------



## jojo

christykelly said:


> The spanish language will be very important, I would advise you to employ a spanish person who can speak spanish, this will help out in many ways, atracting spanish people and talking to them in the off season, when letters come and there in spanish. There is a little negativaty, but if you do your homework and realize how big this task is im sure you will be fine. give yourself lists of what you have to do, schools, agents, places to live, who you have to speak to over there.
> 
> unemployment rate in spain wont be your case as you will have your own bisiness and most of costomers will be on holiday.



I'm sorry that we seem negative, but we're here and we are seeing whats happening. It doesnt take a genius to work the maths out. The smoking ban over here is threatening to make things even worse. Certainly with tourist bars, you have to make enough money in 6 months to cover you for the whole year. When you consider the minute profit margins on beer, drinks and food, its a real struggle and there are many, many bars closing and going out of business. So employing outside staff maybe off limits as you have to pay their tax, etc as well as your own and that of the premises etc. and of course wages on top

I'm not saying that its impossible, but it needs some real planning and understanding. The spanish rules and regs are not straight forward even to the Spanish and there are no safety nets if you get it wrong! 

I'm sorry to be a grump, I'm just telling it as I see it!!!

Jo xxx


----------



## jojo

Stravinsky said:


> You didnt see the TV prog then about the ex pats that moved to Benidorm to take on a bar. I think it was about 6 - 12 months after they opened. They sat there all day waiting for customers that never came. They got ripped off by people, and he left and went back to the UK to get work, leaving her there with a long lease.


"the rusty nail"????????? was it that one????? 

Jo xxx


----------



## Stravinsky

jojo said:


> "the rusty nail"????????? was it that one?????
> 
> Jo xxx


I cant remember. I do remember it looked totally lacking in character ... looked like one of those in the English end that are side by side and do a full english for €1!


----------



## djfwells

You may think after reading all these posts and comments that we are just a bunch of negative whingers. This is (mostly) not the case - just a collective of people who have made many mistakes in making their lives in Spain, and trying to help others not to make the same ones that they did.
By all means come to Spain to make a new life for yourself, I admire the 'take charge' mentality, but PLEASE seriously consider the combination of Bar / Benidorm. There are thousands of expat bars in Benidorm and the surrounding area for sale at stupidly low prices (would they be for sale if the current owners were making a profit?). There is too much competetion, too short a season and too little money to be made.
There is a chance you may be able to make a go of a bar in a different area that was not quite as saturated, or if you want to stay around the Benidorm area you may wish to consider an alternative investment.
In my honest opinion a bar in Benidorm is a money pit and you would last 6 months tops before your money ran out and you were forced to return to the UK with your tail between your legs.


----------



## christykelly

jojo said:


> "the rusty nail"????????? was it that one?????
> 
> Jo xxx


That program was mad, I saw it alright. You have to say yourself that they came totally unprepared.
There are cartain locations in benidorm that are doin fine ( i did see alot of closed bars) with people there day and night and that was in of season. 
Not giving out about your posts, they are very informative and well explained. 

If this man got a good location costumers of all nationalitys he could do well. I agree with all the worries posted on this site and i hope he takes them on board.


----------



## christykelly

jojo said:


> I'm sorry that we seem negative, but we're here and we are seeing whats happening. It doesnt take a genius to work the maths out. The smoking ban over here is threatening to make things even worse. Certainly with tourist bars, you have to make enough money in 6 months to cover you for the whole year. When you consider the minute profit margins on beer, drinks and food, its a real struggle and there are many, many bars closing and going out of business. So employing outside staff maybe off limits as you have to pay their tax, etc as well as your own and that of the premises etc. and of course wages on top
> 
> I'm not saying that its impossible, but it needs some real planning and understanding. The spanish rules and regs are not straight forward even to the Spanish and there are no safety nets if you get it wrong!
> 
> I'm sorry to be a grump, I'm just telling it as I see it!!!
> 
> Jo xxx


ah your right to a point, some people dont realize whats happening over there.
The staff things are right, there are many cons and pros


----------



## DunWorkin

I live a few miles from Benidorm and I must advise you not to come here at the moment with your family with thoughts of buying a business.

The situation here is bad and getting worse. I am retired but I have friends of working age who are getting desperate and cannot afford to live as there is no work and no benefits paid if you have no money.

I have known this area of Spain since the late 60s and I have never seen things so bad. Businesses are closing every week. Some of these have been around a while so what chance does a new business have?

If you are still keen then I would suggest you come by yourself for 2-3 months to live and work then you will see what we mean.


----------



## Stravinsky

Too right .... Spain is a great place to live ...... if you dont have to work, or you have an established job. I've said before that I would never have come here if I'd had to work.

To live here is good. I even enjoy my trips to Benidorm, but I have to say I go there fairly regularly for a night out with friends and I dont see bars doing extremely well. I see some bars doing seemingly very well, and quite a few relatively empty. I have to say though, I dont go up the Brit end so I am not sure how things are there.


----------



## jojo

christykelly said:


> ah your right to a point, some people dont realize whats happening over there.
> The staff things are right, there are many cons and pros



Thanks. I just worry when someone comes to Spain with their whole life and family and they are prepared to plough it all into something as flimsy and (at present) risky. especially without any real reason or knowledge. I have seem and know people who are here and who cannot leave. Their money and lives are stuck here, they're not entitled to any social security help and receive no money at all if they havent paid into the system here. They cant return to the UK cos, even if they had somewhere to go they would struggle to afford the air fare. Marriages are ruined and the so called dream of living in the sun becomes a frightening nightmare!!


So my original grumpy post is really addressed at the idea of it being simple to come over without any planning, in depth knowledge of how things are or how things can go wrong. 

My advise to anyone (in particular families) in this economic climate is to stay where you are secure and where you have friends, family and a home - if you have work then it would be crazy to give it up and move to Spain if you dont have any to come to. The UK with all its faults does look after those who live there, Spain doesnt


----------



## xicoalc

I agree with the thoughts of others. I work with many bar owners in Benidorm and things are tough. Having said that there are people about and a ccarefully planned business can make it, but dont expect to be rich from it for the forseable!

I work with many many people who come to Benidorm to buy businesses. I don´t sell businesses but I advise people who want to buy or start one. I would always advise expert advice and I will give you one piece of info for free... don´t listen to anything any agents tell you... get someoone independant to help you to find a viable business, or indeed establish your own.... its tough... very tough and only the strong will survive in the bar business over the coming year or so.

BUT... you can do it an can survive and there are some genuine opportunities out there, for example bars that have cclosed simply due to lack of expertise and planning, or not taking full advantage of what they can achieve. Tread carefully!


----------



## benidorm wannabe

cheers all looks like we staying put with all the negatives know ya all helping but its a reet smack in mouth


----------



## jojo

benidorm wannabe said:


> cheers all looks like we staying put with all the negatives know ya all helping but its a reet smack in mouth


I'm so glad you answered. I thought with all our negativity we'd frightened you away. Alot of people get "the hump" and simply think we're being horrible and ignore what we say. Give it a year or so, keep looking and learning. Dont give up on a dream, just wait til things are better and make some plans

Jo xxx


----------



## Pesky Wesky

jojo said:


> I'm so glad you answered. I thought with all our negativity we'd frightened you away. Alot of people get "the hump" and simply think we're being horrible and ignore what we say. Give it a year or so, keep looking and learning. Dont give up on a dream, just wait til things are better and make some plans
> 
> Jo xxx


Exactly, by which I mean...
Glad you answered,
Glad you didn't "get the hump",
Keep on gathering info,
Don't give up
Just wait
I would also like to add... Life here isn't dream-like for most people. As Jo has often said before, you still need to do the shopping, get the kids to school and clean the house. You just do it in Spain and not the UK. People often reply, but at least you've got the weather, which is true up to a point. Ever tried cleaning the house or walking back from the market with 3 k of potatoes and 2 kilos of oranges in 40ºC???? 
Hope to see you on here sometime.


----------



## benidorm wannabe

hi all 

anybody heard of the company parasol properties 

there the ones i was looking at for bars etc


----------



## xicoalc

benidorm wannabe said:


> hi all
> 
> anybody heard of the company parasol properties
> 
> there the ones i was looking at for bars etc


Yes

I heard of them!!


----------



## benidorm wannabe

steve_in_spain said:


> Yes
> 
> I heard of them!!


any good then or 1 of many cowboys


----------



## xicoalc

benidorm wannabe said:


> any good then or 1 of many cowboys


I think its unfair to say that any agent is a cowboy... they are there to sell bars.. they get paid to sell them and thats their job! Whether he bar is viable and right for you is for you to decide!

If I can be of any help do PM me.. acting for, and advising people thinkiing of buying bars is what i do... for you the most important thing is to find an opporunity that wont result in you loosing all your money....obviously advertising is not permitteed on here but I am happy to have a private chat with you and point you in the right direction send me a PM by all means and I can give you one or two pointers!


----------



## Pesky Wesky

steve_in_spain said:


> I think its unfair to say that any agent is a cowboy... they are there to sell bars.. they get paid to sell them and thats their job! Whether he bar is viable and right for you is for you to decide!


Soooooooooo diplomatic. Well done Steve!


----------



## benidorm wannabe

hi steve 

how do ya pm mate tried looking but prob summat so simple eh


----------



## xabiaxica

benidorm wannabe said:


> hi steve
> 
> how do ya pm mate tried looking but prob summat so simple eh


just click on his name & follow the link


----------



## djfwells

benidorm wannabe said:


> cheers all looks like we staying put with all the negatives know ya all helping but its a reet smack in mouth


Hey, I managed to escape from Cleckheaton 7 years ago now and I came over without any plan whatsoever, so you are ahead of me on that score. The difference for me (and probobally the main and only reason that I was able to make a go of things here) was that me & the Mrs were without offspring (at that time) and that we kept our house in the UK to rent out - A) for a bit of income to go towards supporting us and B) as a safety net incase things did'nt work out.

The economy and the exchange rate dictated that making a move to Spain was much easier more than 5 years ago. That doesn't mean that you should totally give up on the idea - just that you need to do a little more research and plan as much as you can.

PM me if I can be of any help


----------



## mrypg9

christykelly said:


> The spanish language will be very important, I would advise you to employ a spanish person who can speak spanish, this will help out in many ways, atracting spanish people and talking to them in the off season, when letters come and there in spanish. There is a little negativaty, but if you do your homework and realize how big this task is im sure you will be fine. give yourself lists of what you have to do, schools, agents, places to live, who you have to speak to over there.
> 
> unemployment rate in spain wont be your case as you will have your own bisiness and most of costomers will be on holiday.


It is clear you know little of the situation here. Your last sentence is a giveaway.
But whatever you decide will impact on you and your family so your fate is in your hands.
I would however suggest that people who have experience of living and working here might know a little more about how things really are in most parts of Spain than those who have not yet got SECURE employment i9n Spain.
Just some thoughts:
has the OP experience of running a business in the UK?
does s/he know enough Spanish to be able to navigate the maze of rules and regulations attached to the running of a business in Spain?
has the OP drawn up a viable business plan, carried out essential market research, carefully considered the potential customer base?
has the OP wondered why there are so many bars, cafes etc. for sale at knock-down prices?

Of course some bars will prosper. They are likely to be those long-established businesses with a loyal local clientele. Tourism numbers have declined steeply and those who do come are spending less. Benidorm is not a destination renowned for its wealthy tourist base.
Many hotels and other establishments catering to the tourist trade now close in the winter.
I suggest the OP logs on to YouTube and tries to find that ITV programme 'Spainaradise Lost' which featured the plight of a Benidorm bar owner. He lasted three months...

At the end of the day people will do what they want regardless of well-meaning advice.
A few will succeed but I would say over 99% will not. Not here. Not now.
The Spain of 2011 in no way resembles the Spain of 1990 or even 1996.
But you don't want to hear that, do you?


----------



## mrypg9

benidorm wannabe said:


> cheers all looks like we staying put with all the negatives know ya all helping but its a reet smack in mouth


That would be the most sensible course of action for the foreseeable future.
I know many people desperate to go back to the UK but who are trapped because they have unsaleable properties or businesses.
Today I got via e-mail an offer of a villa reduced from 2, 600,000 euros to a mere 550000.
Says it all.


----------



## bob_bob

I've been several times these last twelve months to Benidorm thanks to Ryanair and I genuinely felt sorry for some bar owners standing behind their bar with next to no punters.

Busy bars attract more people, most folk don't like sitting in an empty bar if that makes sense.

Things are bad here in South Wales (Aldi shut, Subway shut, three pubs shut, sandwich bar shut, two estate agents shut, one travel agent shut, laundry shut, pizza place shut, Helibeds shut, local newspaper office shut), my local town is like a ghost town these days.

"I'm all right Jack" to a degree for me, I have good pensions and other things but in all honesty I can't think of one business I would attempt to open in Spain just now (or South Wales for that matter) especially if I had children. Moving in the UK with four youngsters would be difficult enough but moving to a new country, finding and potentially paying for suitable Schools and trying to setup a new business while trying to cope with language problems and new systems of red tape and bureaucracy would be a nightmare IMHO.

As someone else said, Spain is great to retire to with a good enough pension but trying to make a good living there would be very difficult.


----------



## mrypg9

bob_bob said:


> I've been several times these last twelve months to Benidorm thanks to Ryanair and I genuinely felt sorry for some bar owners standing behind their bar with next to no punters.
> 
> Busy bars attract more people, most folk don't like sitting in an empty bar if that makes sense.
> 
> Things are bad here in South Wales (Aldi shut, Subway shut, three pubs shut, sandwich bar shut, two estate agents shut, one travel agent shut, laundry shut, pizza place shut, Helibeds shut, local newspaper office shut), my local town is like a ghost town these days.
> 
> "I'm all right Jack" to a degree for me, I have good pensions and other things but in all honesty I can't think of one business I would attempt to open in Spain just now (or South Wales for that matter) especially if I had children. Moving in the UK with four youngsters would be difficult enough but moving to a new country, finding and potentially paying for suitable Schools and trying to setup a new business while trying to cope with language problems and new systems of red tape and bureaucracy would be a nightmare IMHO.
> 
> As someone else said, Spain is great to retire to with a good enough pension but trying to make a good living there would be very difficult.


Which says it all. How true.


----------



## christykelly

mrypg9 said:


> It is clear you know little of the situation here. Your last sentence is a giveaway.
> But whatever you decide will impact on you and your family so your fate is in your hands.
> I would however suggest that people who have experience of living and working here might know a little more about how things really are in most parts of Spain than those who have not yet got SECURE employment i9n Spain.
> Just some thoughts:
> has the OP experience of running a business in the UK?
> does s/he know enough Spanish to be able to navigate the maze of rules and regulations attached to the running of a business in Spain?
> has the OP drawn up a viable business plan, carried out essential market research, carefully considered the potential customer base?
> has the OP wondered why there are so many bars, cafes etc. for sale at knock-down prices?
> 
> Of course some bars will prosper. They are likely to be those long-established businesses with a loyal local clientele. Tourism numbers have declined steeply and those who do come are spending less. Benidorm is not a destination renowned for its wealthy tourist base.
> Many hotels and other establishments catering to the tourist trade now close in the winter.
> I suggest the OP logs on to YouTube and tries to find that ITV programme 'Spainaradise Lost' which featured the plight of a Benidorm bar owner. He lasted three months...
> 
> At the end of the day people will do what they want regardless of well-meaning advice.
> A few will succeed but I would say over 99% will not. Not here. Not now.
> The Spain of 2011 in no way resembles the Spain of 1990 or even 1996.
> But you don't want to hear that, do you?



Your mad, iv been there plenty of times in diff seasons. I am not telling this person to do anything, i am telling him how it is, i know spanish bar owners and they live from high points of the year like christmas, festivals, etc 

People dont like reading doom and gloom, hey will more than likely skip reading it, im trying to be neatral.

some people will come over no matter what so at least get them your posts,
Dont be so narky about other peoples post


----------



## xicoalc

oh i love it when it gets heated in here!

I think you all know my opinion but briefly... businesses can work but they need something special, money in the bank to see them through, a careful plan, good advice and a tiny bit of luck (otherwise known as Steves magic fairy dust!)

Its tough , very tough. BUT i have many bar owners as clients, and a lto do very well, but there are nowhere near enough customers to go round, some will make it, most will fail. Those that mae it are the ones who do it right, like any business.

I was talking to a lady yesterday (not a client) bought a bar at rock bottom price last year and did it up... its beautiful. There are a few things she should and could have done to earn more money but she really bought a run down bar to sell on.. She has now concluded its cheaper to leave it closed until she finds a buyer then employ a part time person to open it a few hours a night. She will sell it to some unsuspecting ****** who comes from engand with 50k in the bank probably but its a sign of the times, it is costing her to open each day!


----------



## christykelly

christykelly said:


> Your mad, iv been there plenty of times in diff seasons. I am not telling this person to do anything, I am telling him how it is, i know spanish bar owners and they live from high points of the year like christmas, festivals, etc
> 
> People dont like reading about doom and gloom, he will more than likely skip reading it, im trying to be neutral, notting is and nowhere is rosey at the momment
> 
> some people will come over no matter what so at least get them read your posts,
> Dont be so narky about other peoples post


Sorry was in a rush and not happy and misspelled loads.


----------



## jojo

I dont mind a heated debate. We all have different views cos we all move in different circles. Christy sees things from a different view from Mrypg. Christy is also right that people dont wanna read about the negatives, but we cant gloss over them if someone asks for our opinions. 

In times of crisis, as the world has seen in the last few years has an effect. To have a successful business is not just about hard work, its also about initiative and knowing what you're doing. The percentage of successful businesses is much lower than it was. Those who havent adapted or been proactive risk losing and those who go into a business without knowledge, strategies and plans will simply be relying on luck - and there aint a lot of that about!

Hopefully the original poster will look into running a business in Spain with some care and do some serious homework before he takes the step. Spain isnt as it was all those years ago when it was cheap, everything was growing and you couldnt go wrong!

Jo xxx


----------



## xicoalc

jojo said:


> In times of crisis, as the world has seen in the last few years has an effect. To have a successful business is not just about hard work, its also about initiative and knowing what you're doing. The percentage of successful businesses is much lower than it was. Those who havent adapted or been proactive risk losing and those who go into a business without knowledge, strategies and plans will simply be relying on luck - and there aint a lot of that about!
> 
> 
> Jo xxx


:clap2: well said Jo!


----------



## Stravinsky

christykelly said:


> Your mad, iv been there plenty of times in diff seasons. I am not telling this person to do anything, i am telling him how it is, i know spanish bar owners and they live from high points of the year like christmas, festivals, etc
> 
> People dont like reading doom and gloom, hey will more than likely skip reading it, im trying to be neatral.
> 
> some people will come over no matter what so at least get them your posts,
> Dont be so narky about other peoples post


I agree everyone has an opinion ... but you're not actually telling it "how it is". You're telling them how a part of it is. I know because I go there fairly regularly throughout the year. Yes, they have high points. High points do not a business make, and thats where the problem is.

In the low points you are still paying your rent and taxes and all associated costs. The Coach and Horses on the South beach has a Spanish owner. Its usually quite busy but its been there for years and has established clients. Next door is a bar that opened / closed and the owners skipped as they couldnt compete. One hundred mtrs away is a restaurant / bar that I hardly ever see anyone in, I'm not sure how it stays open.

This is how it is. Many bars are busy. Many aren't.

I agree, people dont like negativity, but I'd rather they were aware of the realities than make decisions based on incorrect detail.

Anyone researching a business anyway cant possibly take the advice on a forum as their only source for making a decision. If they find a bar then they should go there without telling the owners to see what its really like and seek professional advice beforehand anyway


----------



## xicoalc

.......

Crikey, someones had their wheatabix! You do many some very valid points Mary. I could make a small fortune by painting a rosy picture to the countles people who contact me and say "i have 50k and want heelp starting a business in Spain", but the truth is I advise 8/10 of them to put their 50k into savings and reconsider in a few years. 

For some, with the right experience, attitude, and skills (and with the right professional help I hasten to add.. ahemmm) coming to Spain can work.. nobody will make their fortunes right now but for some they can make a living. For most though sadly not.

Last night I went to Benidorm old town. I have not been for a few months and thought I would catch up. Most bars were closed, the two that I went in were dead. In fact in one i was the only customer all night and this is a bar run by a VERY experienced person who has had bars in Spain for many years. 

Your point about hiring staff is VERY true. Many peopke say "i´ll take on a spanish waiter" but when they cant even draw enough from the business to feed their kids thats crazy. Most business owners now have no staff, they work every day themselves desperately trying to bring in enough money to just scrape by. 

bar in benidorm. Rent 600€, electric 200€, various taxes etc 300€, advertising 100€.. ok so we´re at 1200€ so far with just the basics... lets say you make 1€ on every drink (thats optimistic these days), then you need to sell 1200 drinks a month just to break even. Thats 40 drinks a night and you still get no wages. Most punters are buying one or two drinks and making them last. When many bars are only getting half a dozen in per night.,...well do the sums! 

Last week i spent all week negotiating with landlords of bars for clients, desperately trying to help them to reduce their overheads for a while. Sorry, woffling but you are right mary, it has to be looked at from both sides and not just wat the tourists see.


----------



## xabiaxica

I'm closing this thread - it's getting needlessly personal



there is plenty of good advice on the forum given honestly & freely by those of us who live here & see every day what it is like



:closed_2:


----------



## jojo

can I just add that I'm horrified that people can be so rude when they disagree with what someone else says - that does nothing to help their cause. Especially as the Spanish forum is usually such a helpful and friendly place! 

Jo


----------

