# fbars



## solost1992

I just found out several weeks ago that my bank accounts are considered "foreign". I have been checking NO on schedule B for many years knowing that my accts. were not foreign since I have lived here for so long. And of course, I had no idea about fbars. I saw one attorney who said file forward, but my acct. balances are quite high since my husband has high balances (due to a Prud'homme case) that he won. I had signature authority on his accounts and took those off several weeks ago. We are both French, my husband is not American. I keep reading all these horror stories about quiet disclosures and big penalties being imposed and it is making me go slowly insane. Wondering what I should do. I want to become complaint. I am OK for Fatca (no accounts over $50,000). I'm also wondering what the French government would do concerning their French citizens in case of unjust penalties from not filing fbars. I would hate to see my husband suffer just because he had the bad luck of marrying an "American". Thanks for any suggestions.


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## Bevdeforges

Not sure exactly what you've seen about FBAR and FATCA, but this year there are a number of "controls" going into effect, so it's a good time to "get legal" in any event.

If you've been filing a Schedule B, it means that you've at least been filing your US taxes, so that's a positive thing. Though, as you now know, when they ask about "foreign" accounts, they mean non-US so yes, your French accounts need to be declared.

And, as an "overseas resident" your FATCA threshold is actually $200,000 if you've been filing as "married, filing separately" - though that's the combined total of all your "financial assets" not the individual account balances.

I'd actually take the attorney's advice and simply start filing forward. With the new controls going into effect this year (2014) I sort of doubt they are going to go back in time on FBARs and FATCA reporting unless they find something really "suspicious" looking on your prior tax returns.

First thing to do is to file your FBAR for 2013 (deadline is June 30th, so there's plenty of time). Just remember it must be filed online. The FBAR is only a listing of your accounts (and those over which you have signature authority) - I know plenty of folks who just started filing forward when they realized the requirement and they've basically never heard anything back from the Treasury Department. Starting in 2014, the French banks will be reporting information on US persons with accounts, however this information goes to the Banque de France and not directly to the IRS, and there are some limits on the information they'll be reporting.

If you haven't yet filed your US tax returns for 2013, take a good look to see if you should be filing a form 8938 or one of the other supplemental forms. But again, I don't think they're going to swoop down and assess penalties unless they find some indication of willful evasion of taxes or have some other reason to question your tax returns.
Cheers,
Bev


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## solost1992

I'm just a little concerned about filing forward. My income for 2013 isn't that large and my account balances are quite high, only because of all the double counting that I did with transfers from one account to another. I'm thinking it might look out of place having all this money in these accounts and my salary being low. As for Fatca I read they aren't reporting any accounts with less than $50,000, I don't have $50,000 in any one account, but adding all my accounts together I have quite a bit, again with double counting, and I know they are not reporting Livre A, LDD, etc. accounts. What I have been reading is about GAO telling the IRS to look actively for first-time filers and quiet disclosures of fbars and stating that penalties will be very harsh if you are caught that way. They now have a way to compare Schedule Bs for previous years.

I would also like to know if our accounts and apartment can have a lien placed on them, even if we are both French and my husband having nothing to do with the US.

Do I report my husband's accounts since I took my signature authority off of them?

Thanks again.


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## solost1992

I also didn't even think to put my interest from my Livre A and LDD on my schedule B. Should I go and amend for prior years?. I won't have any tax to pay on these small amounts.


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## Bevdeforges

To be real honest about it all, it depends on what you mean by " but adding all my accounts together I have quite a bit." What is "quite a bit" to you may or may not be significant in terms of IRS audits.

The fact is that they can't put any liens on your French accounts or property until they have at least notified you of an audit, which means they have to ask the question first about whatever looks "odd" to them and you do get the opportunity to respond to their questions.

The IRS is not nearly as "all seeing, all knowing" as they would like you to think. If you've been filing your returns in good faith all this time, that's one thing. If you have something to hide, then maybe you do need to be concerned. But they are going to devote their resources to those cases where there is some promise of recovery. 
Cheers,
Bev


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## solost1992

Thanks Bev, we have nothing to hide, our bank accounts are all pristine and well documented.

Do you think it would be better to do 6 years of fbars and if so, would I send them all at once or staggered? Or just go with the 2013 filing?


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## Bevdeforges

Personally, I'd just file the 2013 FBAR and go forward. But if it helps you sleep at night, do the back filings, too. Just remember the FBARs have to be filed online, so you can't really file them "all at once." It's more like one at a time.
Cheers,
Bev


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## solost1992

Just finished calculating sums for 2013 and for all of our accounts it comes to around 170,000 euros. I think that is a lot for first-time Fbar filing, but maybe I am paranoid. I wish we had that much money in our accounts, but counting in "aggregate" just doesn't seem accurate to me and it makes it seem like there is much more money in the accounts than there really is.


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## DavidMcKeegan

Hi 

I would file the last six years of FBAR for certain. There is no tax due, so there is no harm in over reporting. I would also file the last six years to show good faith. You did not realize your requirement, and now that you do, you want to do everything you can to make it right. It is things like that which show favorably upon your case. I can honestly say that we have helped hundreds of people come forward with their delinquent FBAR's, and have yet to see a penalty. Just be honest, and the fact that you are voluntarily coming forward shows favorably as well.

Also, don't worry about the account balances. I have seen people with higher balances come forward, and they did not have any issues. If you have nothing to hide, then just report. Make sure you also report any joint accounts.

I hope this helps!


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## solost1992

Thanks we have about 6 joint accounts and each of us has about 4 sole accounts, but I just recently took my "signature authority" off of my husband's accounts, so don't know if I also report those. I assume I do since I had signature authority in prior years. He does not want me to report his accounts since he has nothing to do with the US. Luckily we won't have to file the Fatca forms.


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## Bevdeforges

The way the regulations are written, it doesn't really matter what your husband thinks. And yes, you have to report the accounts in the years in which you had signature authority, even if only for a day or two.

That said, you have to assess for yourself the risk involved in omitting one or several accounts that you "should be" reporting. Up to now, there hasn't been all that much follow up on FBARs (unless the person is subject to a tax audit or something really obvious turns up). But with the new rules coming into effect this year, who knows what will happen going forward.
Cheers,
Bev


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