# Absconding from UAE with debt



## Uigeadail

I have searched the forums for similar posts and have found some dating back to 2012. I am creating another thread under the premise that laws may have changed and/or someone may be able to advise based on the possibility of new laws introduced relating to the matter.

If one has a debt of Dhs120k and is in a situation where they have to flee from Dubai to the UK, what are the implications of doing so, if any? FYI, the debtor is a Filipino national.

As you probably know, most banks are insured for this kind of thing. From what I have read online, 120k is a small amount compared to the sum that others have left after absconding from Dubai. That being said, will the debtor be in a position where they will be traced to the UK for the collection of the monies?

There is a treaty between the UK and UAE that can be found online.... however I believe it becomes null and void due to the fact that the debtor is not a UK national. As far as I know, there is no extradition laws between the UAE and Philippines.

Can anyone shed some light on the implications based on the above information please?


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## The Rascal

The banks can and do collect in the UK using a company based in Amersham, Coyle, White Devine. How successful they are I do not know. 

Extradition does not exist for debt from the UK.


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## iggles

I do not agree with absconding with debt, but each scenario is different. For the life of me I cannot understand how grown adults get into debt. Its really quite simple, you don't buy what you can't afford. Any way not having a dig at you.

If you are a Filipino why would the UAE look to UK for you? I might be very wrong, but as long as you never come back to UAE they wont hunt for you. If the bank is like HSBC you might have problems as its a world wide bank.

But, my advise is to contact the bank and pay off the debt.


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## Gavtek

Just go. I'd rather be in the UK and owe AED 120k than be in Dubai and owe AED 120k.

Just be prepared never to come back, ever, and never book a flight that goes remotely close to the Middle East.


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## Uigeadail

The Rascal said:


> The banks can and do collect in the UK using a company based in Amersham, Coyle, White Devine. How successful they are I do not know.
> 
> Extradition does not exist for debt from the UK.


Ok... Thanks for the info.



iggles said:


> I do not agree with absconding with debt, but each scenario is different. For the life of me I cannot understand how grown adults get into debt. Its really quite simple, you don't buy what you can't afford. Any way not having a dig at you.
> 
> If you are a Filipino why would the UAE look to UK for you? I might be very wrong, but as long as you never come back to UAE they wont hunt for you. If the bank is like HSBC you might have problems as its a world wide bank.
> 
> But, my advise is to contact the bank and pay off the debt.


The debt was taken out due to the debtor losing their employment and doing all they can to avoid returning to the Philippines. However, I agree with your opinion on debt 



Gavtek said:


> Just go. I'd rather be in the UK and owe AED 120k than be in Dubai and owe AED 120k.
> 
> Just be prepared never to come back, ever, and never book a flight that goes remotely close to the Middle East.


Yes I have heard that they will be detained (and possibly jailed) if they return to Dubai even on a stopover? Do you know if emergency landings are included? I am not in the know regarding whether passengers have the option to remain in transit rather than go through immigration during flight transitions, moreover, whether the UAE will know either way?


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## Gavtek

Yes, emergency landings are included. Don't take the risk. Need to fly from UK to Philippines, go with KLM which tends to fly up over Siberia.

If you owe the money and cannot pay it back, then you simply need to get out before the bank realises you cannot pay it back, otherwise you're not going anywhere at all until it's paid off in full.

It's up to you to decide whether you want to pay off the debt after you have left, but you have nothing to gain from hanging around in the meantime.


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## Stevesolar

Hi,
Wow - where to start!
Regarding UK nationals leaving Dubai and returning to UK with bank debt - the banks use a UK company (CWD, as Rascal stated) to chase debtors and then try to get the debt transferred to UK court jurisdiction (apparently credit card and loan agreements include a clause that states debt can be enforced in any jurisdiction).
Regarding emergency landing in the UAE - airline operators now capture advanced passenger data and would need to pass this on if plane made an emergency landing. If delayed for a few hours, then passengers would be held in a transit lounge and would not clear immigration. If longer - then hotels would be arranged and then passengers would go through immigration. At this time, debtors with outstanding police cases would be at risk of arrest.
Who knows whether the advanced passenger data would be checked against police database, before the plane landed?
Regarding a non-UK national going to the UK with UAE debt - unless bank had information that debtor was in UK - how would they know where to chase the debtor? They would simply look at the home country information that was given at loan/credit card application time.
Cheers
Steve


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## Uigeadail

Gavtek said:


> Yes, emergency landings are included. Don't take the risk. Need to fly from UK to Philippines, go with KLM which tends to fly up over Siberia.
> 
> If you owe the money and cannot pay it back, then you simply need to get out before the bank realises you cannot pay it back, otherwise you're not going anywhere at all until it's paid off in full.
> 
> It's up to you to decide whether you want to pay off the debt after you have left, but you have nothing to gain from hanging around in the meantime.


We (I myself am not the debtor) cannot afford to pay the loan back unfortunately. We have just had a child, I am no longer employed, and we are returning to the UK to buy a house and bring up our newborn. 

We are in the middle of obtaining a UK passport for our child and are out of here asap. She has never defaulted a payment and is currently in good standing with the bank so leaving the country on a return ticket should be fine.

Thanks a lot for the info on KLM... very useful!!



Stevesolar said:


> Hi,
> Wow - where to start!
> Regarding UK nationals leaving Dubai and returning to UK with bank debt - the banks use a UK company (CWD, as Rascal stated) to chase debtors and then try to get the debt transferred to UK court jurisdiction (apparently credit card and loan agreements include a clause that states debt can be enforced in any jurisdiction).
> Regarding emergency landing in the UAE - airline operators now capture advanced passenger data and would need to pass this on if plane made an emergency landing. If delayed for a few hours, then passengers would be held in a transit lounge and would not clear immigration. If longer - then hotels would be arranged and then passengers would go through immigration. At this time, debtors with outstanding police cases would be at risk of arrest.
> Who knows whether the advanced passenger data would be checked against police database, before the plane landed?
> Regarding a non-UK national going to the UK with UAE debt - unless bank had information that debtor was in UK - how would they know where to chase the debtor? They would simply look at the home country information that was given at loan/credit card application time.
> Cheers
> Steve


Ok... I think going via KLM would be the best idea to avoid the possibilities of being in a situation as you stated above. Thanks for the info Steve.


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## The Rascal

Hang on, you can't afford to pay back around £22,000 of debt but you're going to buy a house in the UK?

No sympathy.


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## w_man

Also note - I'm sure I read somewhere that you wouldn't be able to land at any of the GCC as they may enforce detainment on UAE's behalf. So you wouldn't only be avoiding Dubai, but a few countries.

Overall, it's not worth it and ideally you should continue to pay off the loan after leaving but the rest is up to you.

Good luck!


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## Uigeadail

The Rascal said:


> Hang on, you can't afford to pay back around £22,000 of debt but you're going to buy a house in the UK?
> 
> No sympathy.


I can just about afford a 220k mortgage with a 100k deposit. With a salary of 25k a year I cannot afford to pay their dubai debt. Also, the deposit is coming from a family member which I have to pay back. Believe me, If I could afford to pay the debt I would. The debt is around the same amount as the mortgage itself, per month.


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## Froglet

I'm a bit lost here. Are you the one with the debt or are you asking for someone else who has the debt?

I have the feeling it's the same person.........


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## QOFE

Uigeadail said:


> I can just about afford a 220k mortgage with a 100k deposit. With a salary of 25k a year I cannot afford to pay their dubai debt. Also, the deposit is coming from a family member which I have to pay back. Believe me, If I could afford to pay the debt I would. The debt is around the same amount as the mortgage itself, per month.


So, a GBP 200,000 mortgage with a GBP 100,000 deposit. If your Dubai debt is GBP 22,000, just pay off the debt and you'll still have a GBP 78,000 left for the deposit.

If you can't afford the mortgage, get a cheaper house. 
I really have no sympathy for you either. You think you can just run away and leave us others to pay higher fees (and interest) while you do a runner and live in a 220k house in the UK?


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## QOFE

Froglet said:


> I'm a bit lost here. Are you the one with the debt or are you asking for someone else who has the debt?
> 
> I have the feeling it's the same person.........


It sounds like it's his wife who has run up the debt? Or both together under her name?


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## iggles

Unless your in London a 220k mortgage can get you a pretty decent house/flat. Like that's not a small amount. 

Sorry mate looks like your getting zero sympathy from this forum!


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## Uigeadail

Froglet said:


> I'm a bit lost here. Are you the one with the debt or are you asking for someone else who has the debt?
> 
> I have the feeling it's the same person.........


It's my wife's debt. I am a UK national.



QOFE said:


> So, a GBP 200,000 mortgage with a GBP 100,000 deposit. If your Dubai debt is GBP 22,000, just pay off the debt and you'll still have a GBP 78,000 left for the deposit.
> 
> If you can't afford the mortgage, get a cheaper house.
> I really have no sympathy for you either. You think you can just run away and leave us others to pay higher fees (and interest) while you do a runner and live in a 220k house in the UK?


Again, I am not the one doing a runner and I do not agree with absconding. Even if I took the cheapest 2 bed flat I would still not be able to afford both a mortgage and the loan payments. I do however sympathise and understand why the debt was taken out initially as I would also not want to return to the Philippines and live under a roof made out of corrugated iron if I had the chance to remain in another country and take a loan until I found further employment.

If staying in Dubai was an option we would but it isn't unfortunately.



iggles said:


> Unless your in London a 220k mortgage can get you a pretty decent house/flat. Like that's not a small amount.
> 
> Sorry mate looks like your getting zero sympathy from this forum!


A flat up north is a lot cheaper, but the drop in salary does not make it a feasible option. I'm not looking for sympathy, rather advice on implications


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## GloballyRelaxed

Its your wife that's doing a runner and you are going with...so guess what.

drumroll.......................


You are doing a runner.


So can the sob story..............grow a pair and pay up the debt and do what the rest of us do when money is short and make do with a smaller place or rent.


And then save up.


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## Uigeadail

GloballyRelaxed said:


> Its your wife that's doing a runner and you are going with...so guess what.
> 
> drumroll.......................
> 
> 
> You are doing a runner.
> 
> 
> So can the sob story..............grow a pair and pay up the debt.
> 
> Or tell ya story walking pal.


....Assisting. Thanks for the kind words though


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## Froglet

Interesting that you are married and you let your wife do this... You're just as guilty as she is. Learn from this mistake, pay the debt and buy a smaller house/apartment in UK.


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## Mr Rossi

Feel the righteous sanctimony, conned into "doing what's right" by financial powerhouses that engineer this global mess in the first place.

Do what you have to do and don't waste time justifying yourself to random internet folk that don't look past their own self interests either.


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## Uigeadail

Mr Rossi said:


> Feel the righteous sanctimony, conned into "doing what's right" by financial powerhouses that engineer this global mess in the first place.
> 
> Do what you have to do and don't waste time justifying yourself to random internet folk that don't look past their own self interests either.


Thanks Rossi. Looking after my family comes before paying back a company that is insured over a debt. I just felt the need to explain the situation.... should't have as this thread is going off course and turning into a "you deserve this" thread


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## Froglet

How long have you been together?


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## Gavtek

Uigeadail said:


> We could look at negotiating a lower repayment plan.... this is the only feasible if we are to pay the loan back.


Do that when you're out of the country.

Any mention whatsoever to the bank about problems making current repayments could have someone panic and freeze accounts, cash security cheques, etc.


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## Uigeadail

Indeed.... this would definitely have to be done upon returning to the UK rather than from Dubai.


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## Jubmasterflex

Gavtek said:


> Do that when you're out of the country.
> 
> Any mention whatsoever to the bank about problems making current repayments could have someone panic and freeze accounts, cash security cheques, etc.


Agreed however as others have suggested, whether indirect or directly responsible, you still obviously take on your wife's debt (for richer or poorer...) and from what I've seen and heard, it's always best to settle your debts.


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## Uigeadail

Double post by accident... can't find the option to delete post.


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## Stevesolar

Hi,
As hinted in another post - your good lady might end up having the shirt off your back, once you get her a British passport, move to the UK and live in a country that favours women and kids in a divorce situation!
Watch your back!
Best of luck
Steve


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## iggles

Stevesolar said:


> Hi,
> As hinted in another post - your good lady might end up having the shirt off your back, once you get her a British passport, move to the UK and live in a country that favours women and kids in a divorce situation!
> Watch your back!
> Best of luck
> Steve


Wait why is she able to get a British passport? Marriage no longer gives your the right to a passport anymore. She has to get a visa, become a resident, live 5 years.


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## QOFE

Mr Rossi said:


> Feel the righteous sanctimony, conned into "doing what's right" by financial powerhouses that engineer this global mess in the first place.
> 
> Do what you have to do and don't waste time justifying yourself to random internet folk that don't look past their own self interests either.


You take out a loan, you pay back the loan. 

No need to mix in the global mess that the financial powerhouses have created. That's a separate story altogether.


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## Uigeadail

iggles said:


> Wait why is she able to get a British passport? Marriage no longer gives your the right to a passport anymore. She has to get a visa, become a resident, live 5 years.


This is correct. No longer can one obtain a UK passport before doing 5 years as far as I know.


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## GloballyRelaxed

UK immigration for a UK citizen with a non EU foreign spouse isn't a walk in the park.

The passport holder has to go through quite a few hoops while in the UK before their spouse can join them.

This includes employment above a certain threshold and/or savings and a verified place of living.

The spouse also has to tick a few boxes while out of the country as well.

All up you are looking at a few months of being separated.

This cannot be done while in the UK as there is no provision to transfer from a tourist visa to a spouse visa.


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## Uigeadail

Stevesolar said:


> Hi,
> As hinted in another post - your good lady might end up having the shirt off your back, once you get her a British passport, move to the UK and live in a country that favours women and kids in a divorce situation!
> Watch your back!
> Best of luck
> Steve


Thanks Steve. I am not too worried about this due to various reasons. Not all Filipinos are deceitful. That being said, one can never say "this is not going to happen to me".



GloballyRelaxed said:


> UK immigration for a UK citizen with a non EU foreign spouse isn't a walk in the park.
> 
> The passport holder has to go through quite a few hoops while in the UK before their spouse can join them.
> 
> This includes employment above a certain threshold and/or savings and a verified place of living.
> 
> The spouse also has to tick a few boxes while out of the country as well.
> 
> All up you are looking at a few months of being separated.
> 
> This cannot be done while in the UK as there is no provision to transfer from a tourist visa to a spouse visa.


Yes, it's nowhere near as easy as it used to be. We've looked into the requirements for a settlement (not to be confused with ILR) visa and we meet the requirements as it stands.


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## Windsweptdragon

Just as an aside, have you done the passport submission for your baby? From PAUK receiving the application to us receiving the passport took two months. Same situation with you as British husband and Filipina wife. We had to jump through hoops to verify that I was legal father, which included getting documents from the Philippines.


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## Mr Rossi

QOFE said:


> That's a separate story altogether.


Not when it's the same, immoral institutions that you are borrowing from. Fighting a noble cause for the world's banks? :loco:


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## Uigeadail

Windsweptdragon said:


> Just as an aside, have you done the passport submission for your baby? From PAUK receiving the application to us receiving the passport took two months. Same situation with you as British husband and Filipina wife. We had to jump through hoops to verify that I was legal father, which included getting documents from the Philippines.


Yes we started it a few weeks ago. Senomar has been issued to the passport office along with all the other docs required.


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## TallyHo

Did someone hold a gun to the person's head, forcing them to borrow from said banks?

Methinks not.



Mr Rossi said:


> Not when it's the same, immoral institutions that you are borrowing from. Fighting a noble cause for the world's banks? :loco:


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## TallyHo

I've just read through the whole forum.

Filipino took out debt (120k AED) because she was made redundant and wanted to avoid going back to the Philippines. Ok. Interesting. I won't ask what the debt was used for or why going back to the Philippines is so awful.

Filipino is now in a relationship with you. In the meantime she has continued to make the payments on her debt (with your help). Ok. Seems fair enough to me. 

You are now considering returning to the UK (both of you, with a baby). You are asking if it's ok to stop making the payments on the debt once you leave the country.

You are eyeing buying a flat in the UK with a 220k mortgage and 100k deposit. 

Got it. 

Yep, right. No sympathy whatsoever.


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## Uigeadail

TallyHo said:


> I've just read through the whole forum.
> 
> Filipino took out debt (120k AED) because she was made redundant and wanted to avoid going back to the Philippines. Ok. Interesting. I won't ask what the debt was used for or why going back to the Philippines is so awful.
> 
> Filipino is now in a relationship with you. In the meantime she has continued to make the payments on her debt (with your help). Ok. Seems fair enough to me.
> 
> You are now considering returning to the UK (both of you, with a baby). You are asking if it's ok to stop making the payments on the debt once you leave the country.
> 
> You are eyeing buying a flat in the UK with a 220k mortgage and 100k deposit.
> 
> Got it.
> 
> Yep, right. No sympathy whatsoever.


She has been paying her loan without my help. 

Not looking for sympathy. Thanks though!


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## TallyHo

Based on what the OP has told us, his Filipino ladyfriend took out the debt because she was unemployed and didn't want to go back to the Philippines. Sounds like the bank did a nice favour to her, allowing her to stay in the country to find another job and to land herself a partner with a golden passport. 

We don't know the whole story, of course. We could blame the Filipino for taking out a large loan whilst unemployed. We could blame the bank for granting the loan to an unemployed person.

I daresay there's some blame that goes both ways. 



Mr Rossi said:


> Not when it's the same, immoral institutions that you are borrowing from. Fighting a noble cause for the world's banks? :loco:


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## TallyHo

Accept it, mate.

You are doing something ethically wrong by absconding despite having sufficient funds to pay off the loan. Then why did you bother coming on here? 

I'm sorry I won't be able to watch the intriguing evolution of your relationship over the years but I'll say that your partner was damn lucky to find you.



Uigeadail said:


> She has been paying her loan without my help.
> 
> Not looking for sympathy. Thanks though!


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## Uigeadail

TallyHo said:


> Accept it, mate.
> 
> You are doing something ethically wrong by absconding despite having sufficient funds to pay off the loan. Then why did you bother coming on here?
> 
> I'm sorry I won't be able to watch the intriguing evolution of your relationship over the years but I'll say that your partner was damn lucky to find you.


I thought you read the entire post? If you had you would notice I said I could pay lower installments.

I came here for advice on repercussions, if any.

Stereotyping? You should be proud of yourself


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## TallyHo

This is your very first post:

"I have searched the forums for similar posts and have found some dating back to 2012. I am creating another thread under the premise that laws may have changed and/or someone may be able to advise based on the possibility of new laws introduced relating to the matter.

If one has a debt of Dhs120k and is in a situation where they have to flee from Dubai to the UK, what are the implications of doing so, if any? FYI, the debtor is a Filipino national.

As you probably know, most banks are insured for this kind of thing. From what I have read online, 120k is a small amount compared to the sum that others have left after absconding from Dubai. That being said, will the debtor be in a position where they will be traced to the UK for the collection of the monies?

There is a treaty between the UK and UAE that can be found online.... however I believe it becomes null and void due to the fact that the debtor is not a UK national. As far as I know, there is no extradition laws between the UAE and Philippines.

Can anyone shed some light on the implications based on the above information please?"

The fact that you are even contemplating absconding/abandoning the debt and asking questions about it despite having sufficient money to pay it off says all one needs to know. 

If you were unemployed and had no money in the bank and no income coming in, it's one thing. 

Man up. You agreed to be a sugar daddy. Pay off her debt. Get it over and behind you and move on with your life without any worries. You may have to postpone buying the flat for a few more years but that's what responsible adults do. 




Uigeadail said:


> I thought you read the entire post? If you had you would notice I said I could pay lower installments.
> 
> I came here for advice on repercussions, if any.
> 
> Stereotyping? You should be proud of yourself


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## clarkr

Uigeadail said:


> I can just about afford a 220k mortgage with a 100k deposit. With a salary of 25k a year I cannot afford to pay their dubai debt. Also, the deposit is coming from a family member which I have to pay back. Believe me, If I could afford to pay the debt I would. The debt is around the same amount as the mortgage itself, per month.


I'm not trying to judge you here, but I wonder if you've made up your mind regardless of the finances, because you've been swayed by the emotional impact these debts are having on your loved one. You're feeling the protective urge to "stick it to the man" for the debts you deem they have forced her take on to escape her life under corrugated iron in the phillipines as you put it.

I really think you should reconsider your financial situation - you still have options, only 1 of which is doing a runner entirely and constantly living in fear forever more. No one on this forum has a crystal ball on what treaties may or may not come into force in the future. Banks are becoming more and more globalised. Even if they don't chase the debt up, who's to say this little episode won't appear in future credit checks all of a sudden.

The way I see it, all in GBP, you have 22k worth of personal debt, and are looking at buying a property in the UK for 220k with 100k of deposit coming from relatives which needs to be paid back at some point in the future.

The difference between a loan of 120k and 142k over 35 years is 112 a month (717 vs 605 in monthly payments). 

With a salary of roughly 1,700 take-home (based on 25k per year), you have a grand to play with to support a family of 3 - up north.

I don't see the issue with that - 4 weekly shops of 100 quid, and bills of 150 gives you disposable income of 450 per month - its manageable.

I honestly don't know why you're wanting to jeopardise your future and become an international pariah when you have the options that you have at your disposal.

Don't get me wrong, Dubai has a lot of gut-wrenching stories, with horrific cases you hear about such as low income workers who get royally screwed over when they have severe complications in birth - but this seems very manageable in comparison.

Just think about it, defaulting on debt should be your VERY last option - you never know what may happen in the future.


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## Uigeadail

TallyHo said:


> This is your very first post:
> 
> "I have searched the forums for similar posts and have found some dating back to 2012. I am creating another thread under the premise that laws may have changed and/or someone may be able to advise based on the possibility of new laws introduced relating to the matter.
> 
> If one has a debt of Dhs120k and is in a situation where they have to flee from Dubai to the UK, what are the implications of doing so, if any? FYI, the debtor is a Filipino national.
> 
> As you probably know, most banks are insured for this kind of thing. From what I have read online, 120k is a small amount compared to the sum that others have left after absconding from Dubai. That being said, will the debtor be in a position where they will be traced to the UK for the collection of the monies?
> 
> There is a treaty between the UK and UAE that can be found online.... however I believe it becomes null and void due to the fact that the debtor is not a UK national. As far as I know, there is no extradition laws between the UAE and Philippines.
> 
> Can anyone shed some light on the implications based on the above information please?"
> 
> The fact that you are even contemplating absconding/abandoning the debt and asking questions about it despite having sufficient money to pay it off says all one needs to know.
> 
> If you were unemployed and had no money in the bank and no income coming in, it's one thing.
> 
> Man up. You agreed to be a sugar daddy. Pay off her debt. Get it over and behind you and move on with your life without any worries. You may have to postpone buying the flat for a few more years but that's what responsible adults do.


FYI I am unemployed and she is working. Agreed to be a sugar daddy... these assumptions are becoming more and more amusing.

We do not have sufficient funds to pay the monthly installments upon returning to the UK, hence why I have indicated that I could pay a lesser amount. Read next time?


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## Uigeadail

clarkr said:


> I'm not trying to judge you here, but I wonder if you've made up your mind regardless of the finances, because you've been swayed by the emotional impact these debts are having on your loved one. You're feeling the protective urge to "stick it to the man" for the debts you deem they have forced her take on to escape her life under corrugated iron in the phillipines as you put it.
> 
> I really think you should reconsider your financial situation - you still have options, only 1 of which is doing a runner entirely and constantly living in fear forever more. No one on this forum has a crystal ball on what treaties may or may not come into force in the future. Banks are becoming more and more globalised. Even if they don't chase the debt up, who's to say this little episode won't appear in future credit checks all of a sudden.
> 
> The way I see it, all in GBP, you have 22k worth of personal debt, and are looking at buying a property in the UK for 220k with 100k of deposit coming from relatives which needs to be paid back at some point in the future.
> 
> The difference between a loan of 120k and 142k over 35 years is 112 a month (717 vs 605 in monthly payments).
> 
> With a salary of roughly 1,700 take-home (based on 25k per year), you have a grand to play with to support a family of 3 - up north.
> 
> I don't see the issue with that - 4 weekly shops of 100 quid, and bills of 150 gives you disposable income of 450 per month - its manageable.
> 
> I honestly don't know why you're wanting to jeopardise your future and become an international pariah when you have the options that you have at your disposal.
> 
> Don't get me wrong, Dubai has a lot of gut-wrenching stories, with horrific cases you hear about such as low income workers who get royally screwed over when they have severe complications in birth - but this seems very manageable in comparison.
> 
> Just think about it, defaulting on debt should be your VERY last option - you never know what may happen in the future.


Yes, we would prefer not to live in fear.... I think we will attempt to negotiate with the bank upon arriving in the UK about paying back the loan at a rate that we can afford. Thanks for the info.


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## QOFE

OP, in fairness now, you only started mentioning paying back the loan after quite a few posts. Your initial query was only about absconding and how to avoid getting caught, happily taking advice which routes to take.

You also mentioned that "they are insured". Is that the excuse for not paying a debt now? Ah, sure they can afford it. Ah, sure they are rich. Ah, sure they have insurance.
It's a vicious circle that we all end up being caught up in due to irresponsible individuals.

Good on you if you pay the loan back.


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## Uigeadail

QOFE said:


> OP, in fairness now, you only started mentioning paying back the loan after quite a few posts. Your initial query was only about absconding and how to avoid getting caught, happily taking advice which routes to take.
> 
> You also mentioned that "they are insured". Is that the excuse for not paying a debt now? Ah, sure they can afford it. Ah, sure they are rich. Ah, sure they have insurance.
> It's a vicious circle that we all end up being caught up in due to irresponsible individuals.
> 
> Good on you if you pay the loan back.



Thanks QOFE ^^

Yes, I cannot deny that initially we were looking at possibilities of absconding. Perhaps I should not have tried to justify it by using the words "they are insured" etc. We are in a sticky situation and I am looking at what can be done to escape it, be it doing the right thing or not. Looking after my family comes before paying a bank loan off. However, if by not paying the bank loan off would put our family at risk (other than flying through UAE/GGC) then I would gladly negotiate paying it off with the bank.


----------



## The Rascal

Uigeadail said:


> Thanks QOFE ^^
> 
> Yes, I cannot deny that initially we were looking at possibilities of absconding. Perhaps I should not have tried to justify it by using the words "they are insured" etc. We are in a sticky situation and I am looking at what can be done to escape it, be it doing the right thing or not. Looking after my family comes before paying a bank loan off. However, if by not paying the bank loan off would put our family at risk (other than flying through UAE/GGC) then I would gladly negotiate paying it off with the bank.


You won't be at any risk at all, it's your wife that will be.


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## T'challa_Udaku

Do what you have to do as long as further down the line, you don't make a "I have been offered the job of my dreams but having lived in the uae previously, we absconded without paying a bank debt. I really want to come back to the uae........." post. 

If you do, these guys will eat you alive lol


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## Uigeadail

The Rascal said:


> You won't be at any risk at all, it's your wife that will be.


I was curious about that.... whether I would be held accountable for anything as her husband. Thanks for confirming.



T'challa_Udaku said:


> Do what you have to do as long as further down the line, you don't make a "I have been offered the job of my dreams but having lived in the uae previously, we absconded without paying a bank debt. I really want to come back to the uae........." post.
> 
> If you do, these guys will eat you alive lol


No money in the world would make me consider coming back to the UAE. As for coming back here for advice on returning to Dubai if I wished to do so - I would rather eat worms on toast than be sushi for breakfast


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## iggles

I don't get your maths 

Your British, so you shouldn't of moved here for less than AED20-30k a month. If your wife works add another AED 5k a month.

Thats, 420,000 a year, minus rent, minus porn addiction, and fees (do you have kids i can't remember) you could easily pay AED 10,00 a month on this loan. 

Actually, unless your on AED15k a month or less you could pay of this loan of in a year if you stayed in UAE.

Edit if you work for Devere Group, this forum will go bananas


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## Uigeadail

iggles said:


> I don't get your maths
> 
> Your British, so you shouldn't of moved here for less than AED20-30k a month. If your wife works add another AED 5k a month.
> 
> Thats, 420,000 a year, minus rent, minus porn addiction, and fees (do you have kids i can't remember) you could easily pay AED 10,00 a month on this loan.
> 
> Actually, unless your on AED15k a month or less you could pay of this loan of in a year if you stayed in UAE.
> 
> Edit if you work for Devere Group, this forum will go bananas


I was earning 15k without a commission scheme whilst employed.... then again I didn't come to Dubai for a high salary (unusual I know).

DeVere.... the amount of phonecalls I have had from them are countless. I am yet to hear a good story about them other than from the mouth of their recruitment team


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## cfposi

Entertaining conversation! 



The Rascal said:


> You won't be at any risk at all, it's your wife that will be.


I'm not going to get into judging you here, but I just want to quickly add one point about debt in the UK. As a few others have pointed out, several local firms in the UK are used to enforce debt from abroad and, as I understand it, there is no official 'minimum threshold' for them doing that.

Once that debt is transferred to the UK (likely to take around 6-8 months from initial instruction to the debt collection agency), you will become liable for a default ruling in the county court (CCJ). A CCJ on your wife's credit file will affect your own credit rating and will defintiely be enforceable against any assets she owns (including assets potentially beneficially owned - i.e. your house). The upshot is:

- If you get a mortgage in the UK (even if in your name only), your wife's CCJ will be enforceable against your house.

- The fact that she has been issued with a CCJ will likely put you in default on your mortgage.

- You certainly will not be eligible to refinance in a few years time as the CCJ will clearly be visible in enhanced credit checks.

Botton line is, you may be able to get away with it for a short while, but eventually they will find you and eventually they will ruin your life in the UK. 

The irony is that this is precisely due to the 'insurance' you referred to in your first post. As you correctly point out, the bank doesn't care if you abscond - they will get paid out a percentage of the debt and continue doing business. Your debt is assigned to the insurance company...and they have a very long reach and lots of time on their hands - they don't write things off very often.


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## The Rascal

What I find weird is that the loan is over 7 years old and is still at 120,000, or am I hallucinating due to lack of wifebeater.

I thought the maximum time period for personal loans is 5 years?

Something doesn't ring true about this.


----------



## iggles

Uigeadail said:


> I was earning 15k without a commission scheme whilst employed.... then again I didn't come to Dubai for a high salary (unusual I know).
> 
> DeVere.... the amount of phonecalls I have had from them are countless. I am yet to hear a good story about them other than from the mouth of their recruitment team


Maybe to personal or already mentioned are you in Dubai now? Working? Wife working? You are you just getting the feel of whats best to do. 

Me, myself? I'd get a new wife. But that's because i am a handsome devil


----------



## Uigeadail

cfposi said:


> Entertaining conversation!
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not going to get into judging you here, but I just want to quickly add one point about debt in the UK. As a few others have pointed out, several local firms in the UK are used to enforce debt from abroad and, as I understand it, there is no official 'minimum threshold' for them doing that.
> 
> Once that debt is transferred to the UK (likely to take around 6-8 months from initial instruction to the debt collection agency), you will become liable for a default ruling in the county court (CCJ). A CCJ on your wife's credit file will affect your own credit rating and will defintiely be enforceable against any assets she owns (including assets potentially beneficially owned - i.e. your house). The upshot is:
> 
> - If you get a mortgage in the UK (even if in your name only), your wife's CCJ will be enforceable against your house.
> 
> - The fact that she has been issued with a CCJ will likely put you in default on your mortgage.
> 
> - You certainly will not be eligible to refinance in a few years time as the CCJ will clearly be visible in enhanced credit checks.
> 
> Botton line is, you may be able to get away with it for a short while, but eventually they will find you and eventually they will ruin your life in the UK.
> 
> The irony is that this is precisely due to the 'insurance' you referred to in your first post. As you correctly point out, the bank doesn't care if you abscond - they will get paid out a percentage of the debt and continue doing business. Your debt is assigned to the insurance company...and they have a very long reach and lots of time on their hands - they don't write things off very often.


Useful info... thanks.

Regarding my wife's risk... as a non-UK National, does that make her immune to a CCJ in the UK? (no knowledge on this whatsoever)


----------



## Uigeadail

iggles said:


> Maybe to personal or already mentioned are you in Dubai now? Working? Wife working? You are you just getting the feel of whats best to do.
> 
> Me, myself? I'd get a new wife. But that's because i am a handsome devil


Still in Dubai.... Wife is working and I'm unemployed presently.

LOL at new wife... I could convert to Muslim and get loads of wives!


----------



## iggles

The Rascal said:


> What I find weird is that the loan is over 7 years old and is still at 120,000, or am I hallucinating due to lack of wifebeater.
> 
> I thought the maximum time period for personal loans is 5 years?
> 
> Something doesn't ring true about this.


Or why it hasn't decreased? Even by AED 1,000 a month. AED 1,000 x 12 months x 7 years = AED 84,000 paid. I know we are simplifying things, and the reality of things is usual not as black and white as it can be made out to be.


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## cfposi

Uigeadail said:


> Useful info... thanks.
> 
> Regarding my wife's risk... as a non-UK National, does that make her immune to a CCJ in the UK? (no knowledge on this whatsoever)


Nope! Nationality is irrelevant. I'm Canadian and the rules apply to me just the same as my British wife.

Also - FYI, CCJ is disclosable on a UK immigration application...so the next visa she applies for can be rejected on those grounds.

That said - if you are willing to make payments, and are genuinly unable to make the full repayment of the debt, debt collection companies in the UK are more likely to work with you than a Emerati bank. You will still get scr*wed from a credit perspective, but at least she won't get a CCJ and get deported one day!


----------



## Uigeadail

The Rascal said:


> What I find weird is that the loan is over 7 years old and is still at 120,000, or am I hallucinating due to lack of wifebeater.
> 
> I thought the maximum time period for personal loans is 5 years?
> 
> Something doesn't ring true about this.


My bad.... she has been working for her company for 7 years. The loan was taken in 2013. Original amount of 110k and she had a top-up loan over the period.



cfposi said:


> Nope! Nationality is irrelevant. I'm Canadian and the rules apply to me just the same as my British wife.
> 
> Also - FYI, CCJ is disclosable on a UK immigration application...so the next visa she applies for can be rejected on those grounds.
> 
> That said - if you are willing to make payments, and are genuinly unable to make the full repayment of the debt, debt collection companies in the UK are more likely to work with you than a Emerati bank. You will still get scr*wed from a credit perspective, but at least she won't get a CCJ and get deported one day!


Ok. Thanks again!


----------



## iggles

Right if I have misinterpreted something, I do apologise 

She took out a loan in 2013, this was before you met. You were not aware of this loan when she took it out

You then dated, in those 24 months you got married, had a kid, she gets a golden passport , she will now will move to a better life in the UK far away from tin roofs, away from saying "hello sirrrrr" to arabs with housing and child benefits and free education for her kids, free health care, free state pension, plus AED120k shes not paid back to the bank and all of this from a welfare system she has not paid into. 

Great - Not only have you been screwed, you let the whole of the UK get screwed as well

Haha i kid, but you've been a busy man! 

My advise, divorce her on the reason for debt, keep the kid get a new wife (and a new job!)


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## rsinner

I will not get into any of the debate here.

Just wanted to point out that there is no insurance cover that a bank has against bad debt. The insurance taken out by the bank (and paid for by the borrower) is generally a life or disability insurance to cover a bank in case of the death/ disability of the borrower. Otherwise its the bank's/ shareholders' money lost (and then paid for through higher interest rates by the rest of us)


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## Uigeadail

iggles said:


> Right if I have misinterpreted something, I do apologise
> 
> She took out a loan in 2013, this was before you met. You were not aware of this loan when she took it out
> 
> You then dated, in those 24 months you got married, had a kid, she gets a golden passport , she will now will move to a better life in the UK far away from tin roofs, away from saying "hello sirrrrr" to arabs with housing and child benefits and free education for her kids, free health care, free state pension, plus AED120k shes not paid back and all of this from a welfare system she has not paid into.
> 
> Great - Not only have you been screwed, you let the whole of the UK get screwed as well
> 
> Haha i kid, but you've been a busy man!
> 
> My advise, divorce her on the reason for debt, keep the kid get a new wife (and a new job!)


LOL you make me chuckle! 

She works in an office, not a shopping centre like the majority  We've known each other for around 6 years.... I've been in Dubai over a year 

Of course, this makes me immune to being s*rewed doesn't it


----------



## The Rascal

Uigeadail said:


> LOL you make me chuckle!
> 
> She works in an office, not a shopping centre like the majority  We've known each other for around 6 years.... I've been in Dubai over a year
> 
> Of course, this makes me immune to being s*rewed doesn't it


So iggles is wrong with the 24 months bit, you managed to fit all that in a year and you got sacked!

And i think my life is complicated....


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## Uigeadail

The Rascal said:


> So iggles is wrong with the 24 months bit, you managed to fit all that in a year and you got sacked!
> 
> And i think my life is complicated....


I had to leave my job to look after the little one.... Wife can't leave her job for obvious reasons!


----------



## iggles

Uigeadail said:


> I had to leave my job to look after the little one.... Wife can't leave her job for obvious reasons!


I am banging my head against the table due to your life decisions. I've downed tools, I just can't comprehend all of this terrible decision making 

Please tell me she earns more than 15k a month - Don't bother I already know the answer.

Gentlemen, this guy is a prime example of thinking with your **** not your head. lol


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## The Rascal

Uigeadail said:


> I had to leave my job to look after the little one.... Wife can't leave her job for obvious reasons!


Nothing like a well thought out lifestyle strategy.

And that's nothing like one!


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## Uigeadail

Oh well, at least I've had time to bond with the baby for a few months.... most Father's don't get to do this.... all of which will change when we get to the UK! 

I can't get enough of the criticism on these forums.... Popcorn ahoy!


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## Froglet

It is very strange. How much was the top up and when did she take that?


----------



## The Rascal

And more to the point, what did she do with 120k? Buy a suburb of Manilla?


----------



## iggles

Uigeadail said:


> Oh well, at least I've had time to bond with the baby for a few months.... most Father's don't get to do this.... all of which will change when we get to the UK!
> 
> I can't get enough of the criticism on these forums.... Popcorn ahoy!


Maternity leave plus 30 days holidays?! 

Was this a friends with benefit, that promised you she takes the pill.

Have you've been utterly suckered in?


----------



## Uigeadail

iggles said:


> Maternity leave plus 30 days holidays?!
> 
> Was this a friends with benefit, that promised you she takes the pill.
> 
> Have you've been utterly suckered in?


She was granted some time off 



The Rascal said:


> And more to the point, what did she do with 120k? Buy a suburb of Manilla?


She bought a province.... they've gone down in price lately.


----------



## TallyHo

He's obviously hiding back a lot from us.

She took out 110k in 2013, initially, and then topped up. 

In an early post he stated: "The debt was taken out due to the debtor losing their employment and doing all they can to avoid returning to the Philippines."

Then he wrote on a previous page:

"My bad.... she has been working for her company for 7 years. The loan was taken in 2013. Original amount of 110k and she had a top-up loan over the period."

He also said she's currently working whilst he's happily unemployed.

Something ain't adding up here.

And where did that 120K go? What was it spent on? 

Actually, when I think about it, she couldn't have received the personal loan without a letter of no objection from her company and certifying her salary. If she was redundant, she wouldn't have received any loans. As a signatory I have to sign letters for my team for when the apply for car loans or personal loans and I certainly wouldn't do it if they were on the threshold of being made redundant. 

Mate, either your wife is telling you a bunch of ******** or you're telling us a bunch of ******** OR, as I hope is the case, you're taking us for a ride for laughs.



Froglet said:


> It is very strange. How much was the top up and when did she take that?


----------



## Froglet

I think it's a troll. It's just too ridiculous to be true.


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## iggles

It's SteveSolar. He's had one to many Turkish Coffee, and the caffeine has gone to his head.


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## The Rascal

Named after a loch or a whisky that was named after a loch.

Maybe he's just had a dram too many?


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## TallyHo

Selecting the name of a minor whisky or Scottish loch as your username = middle aged bloke. 

But everything on this thread implied a stupid kid in his 20s. 

Someone had a go at us. Not sure whether to laugh or to be pissed. 



The Rascal said:


> Named after a loch or a whisky that was named after a loch.
> 
> Maybe he's just had a dram too many?


----------



## Uigeadail

I'll leave you to speculate!


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## The Rascal

TallyHo said:


> Selecting the name of a minor whisky or Scottish loch as your username = middle aged bloke.
> 
> But everything on this thread implied a stupid kid in his 20s.
> 
> Someone had a go at us. Not sure whether to laugh or to be pissed.


Well on that basis you're the attached...

And iggles is just a [email protected]


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## TallyHo

You did quite well, Steve.

Next time get your story organised beforehand. You slipped towards the end. The little lies always trip you. 



Uigeadail said:


> I'll leave you to speculate!


----------



## Froglet

TallyHo said:


> You did quite well, Steve.
> 
> Next time get your story organised beforehand. You slipped towards the end. The little lies always trip you.


Yeh, it got a bit messy indeed...


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## iggles

Iggles comes up with this for..


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## TallyHo

Haha.

I hate my username. It's a corruption of an actual name and a nickname. I have no idea why I went with it and it's probably because I only intended to post a few questions on here before moving along and couldn't be bothered to come up with a better one. 

Flash forward too many years later....



The Rascal said:


> Well on that basis you're the attached...
> 
> And iggles is just a [email protected]


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## Uigeadail

Steve.... please step in and duly inform them!


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## The Rascal

Uigeadail said:


> Steve.... please step in and duly inform them!


"Kindly do the needful" please.


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## Uigeadail

Anything to disguise myself!


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## TallyHo

Nice try there.

You can't be Mr. Rossi. Like most lefties he's too uptight to troll this type of subject. 



Uigeadail said:


> Steve.... please step in and duly inform them!


----------



## Uigeadail

Who else could I be?


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## The Rascal

Isn't having multiple sign ins against the forum rules?

Not that i would ever do such a thing.


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## iggles

I don't care - Ban him Stevo! STEVO STEVOOOO

Wait that veronica is a right battleaxe. Get her to do it


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## The Rascal

iggles said:


> I don't care - Ban him Stevo! STEVO STEVOOOO
> 
> Wait that veronica is a right battleaxe. Get her to do it


How to win friends and influence people by iggles....


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## Uigeadail

I'm not Steve! You can compare our IP's in the admin panel (or front end if you have the correct power level) and they will not match.


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## The Rascal

Oh Bedou, bless her little cotton socks....


----------



## Mr Rossi

TallyHo said:


> Like most lefties he's too uptight to troll this type of subject.


So, become more right wing and become a better troll?

Sounds about right.


----------



## iggles

Mr Rossi said:


> So, become more right wing and become a better troll?
> 
> Sounds about right.


Left or right doesn't matter which hand you use, it's still the same end result. A messy tissue


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## Uigeadail

I never did find sugar coated popcorn in Dubai. It's either salt, toffee or mixed (ewww)


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## Uigeadail

My wife should be welcomed into the UK and given a passport, but refused benefits and a government pension, There should be a 10% chance of receiving free healthcare.


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## Stevesolar

*Thread gets messy!*

Wow - I go to the car dealership to get some warranty work done, then the school run, then collect wife from work - just away for a few hours and the thread gets very messy!
Missed lunch today - so far too hungry to deal with this right now.
I'll be back!


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## BedouGirl

The Rascal said:


> And more to the point, what did she do with 120k? Buy a suburb of Manilla?


I still haven't got to the end of the thread, but that's EXACTLY what I was thinking. AED 120K!!! And isn't there some sort of calculation on the monthly salary (like a x y) so it never comes out to higher than a certain amount? Forgive me if this is mentioned further on....


----------



## BedouGirl

BedouGirl said:


> I still haven't got to the end of the thread, but that's EXACTLY what I was thinking. AED 120K!!! And isn't there some sort of calculation on the monthly salary (like a x y) so it never comes out to higher than a certain amount? Forgive me if this is mentioned further on....


Damn, I knew I should have read it to the end...! Hahahaha


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## cfposi

I'm sad this rediculous thread is petering out...but at least it hit 100! 

:deadhorse:


----------



## The Rascal

Just for an avoidance of doubt. Emirates 24/7



> Abdul Raheem, an Indian newspaper delivery driver in Saudi Arabia, was on his annual vacation from Jeddah to the Nedumbassery International Airport, Kerala, on September 1, 2015, when he was detained at the Abu Dhabi airport by the police.


Seems a common name to me, must have done a passport check. Poor guy only earns AED1,200 a month - wonder what he owes?



> “When the plane reached Abu Dhabi, a CID officer came to the aircraft, called out my name inside the plane and took me out.
> 
> “He told me I have unpaid loans and credit cards and that I cannot leave without clearing the dues.”


So he never even left the plane, the CID use the flight manifest and passport numbers.


----------



## pamela0810

Oh boy this was one MESSY thread!


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## The Rascal

pamela0810 said:


> Oh boy this was one MESSY thread!


When the cat's away.....

Still don't know who the OP is mind you, although I do have an inkling.


----------



## pamela0810

Pray tell Rascal....I think it might be you!


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## tcs

"If you have lived for periods of 12 months or more in any other countries during the last ten years, you must also provide police certificates from these countries, and also your country (or countries) of citizenship."

I'm not sure how things work in the UK, but when applying for a dependent visa or a UK passport in the future, will she be asked to present "Police certificates" or a “certificate of good conduct” from Dubai/UAE?


----------



## Stevesolar

tcs said:


> "If you have lived for periods of 12 months or more in any other countries during the last ten years, you must also provide police certificates from these countries, and also your country (or countries) of citizenship."
> 
> I'm not sure how things work in the UK, but when applying for a dependent visa or a UK passport in the future, will she be asked to present "Police certificates" or a “certificate of good conduct” from Dubai/UAE?


Hi,
I find these Police Clearance Certificates very strange.
They don't prove that anyone is a good citizen - it just proves they were not dumb enough to get caught!
They are like proving a double negative!
Cheers
Steve


----------



## tcs

Stevesolar said:


> They don't prove that anyone is a good citizen - it just proves they were not dumb enough to get caught!


True. 

Maybe they just want to keep the dumb ones out of the country. And hopefully people will think twice before they "Absconding from UAE with debt".

Leaving a mark on your criminal record might seriously jeopardize your application (for naturalisation as a British citizen). Be ready to pay for a good lawyer.

OP's story might sound like a joke, but it's definitely not uncommon. If she doesn't want to be responsible, at least be realistic.


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## ChickenChowmein

Hi Uigeadail, how is your battle with coyle white devine. Would like to hear some update.


----------

