# modelo 211



## paulhe (Jan 2, 2018)

hello all, I am seeking some help with a tax demand that I do not think is due to be paid by me. I purchased a house in Martos on 2 July this year. I received a letter from the tax authorities which appears (I have translated the content via google) to demand 210 euros. the letter refers to mondelo 211 and that the decline for the submission of the self assessment was 3 August 2018. Further that, because of non payment, there is now surcharge of 5%. The letter refers to 'real estate retention'.

Is this something that the seller should pay rather than me?

my second question relates to the non - resident imputed rental tax - when will that fall due to be paid by me? Am I correct in thinking I have until 31 December 2019 to file my modelo 210?

Paul


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

Presumably you bought the property from someone who is non resident in Spain? In that case, you (or your lawyer) should have retained 3% of the sale price and paid it to the Agencia Tributaria (having completed the Modelo 211) which is to cover the vendor's potential Capital Gains Tax liaibility. If the vendor did not sell at a profit they can then reclaim the 3%.

From the Spanish Property Insight website:-

"2.2 Income tax provision when buying from non-residents

If the seller is not resident in Spain, the buyer has to withhold 3% of the purchase price and pay it to the tax authorities (application form 211). If this is not done the property will be considered by the tax authorities as the asset backing the capital gains tax liability of the seller. This condition is very unlikely to apply when purchasing from a developer."

If you did not retain that amount, the liability will fall on you, unfortunately.


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## paulhe (Jan 2, 2018)

My lawyer should have done so as I paid the full purchase price through him and did not myself retain any amount.
Paul


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

paulhe said:


> My lawyer should have done so as I paid the full purchase price through him and did not myself retain any amount.
> Paul


Then you need to find out from your lawyer, as a matter of urgency, why you have received this bill - before any more late payment penalties accrue.


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## paulhe (Jan 2, 2018)

Thank you Lynn, appreciate your reply


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## paulhe (Jan 2, 2018)

Hi Lynn 
If I bought the property in July when would I need to file my non - resident imputed tax assessment (Modelo 210?) and pay the tax due ? 
Thanks 
Paul


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

paulhe said:


> Thank you Lynn, appreciate your reply


Did you buy through an English woman ans her lawyer?


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

paulhe said:


> Hi Lynn
> If I bought the property in July when would I need to file my non - resident imputed tax assessment (Modelo 210?) and pay the tax due ?
> Thanks
> Paul


Modelo 210 is a quarterly declaration (last day of the quarter). I think you can wait to pay until the end of the 4th quarter, but we always paid each quarter.


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## paulhe (Jan 2, 2018)

Hi Megsmum, yes I did


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## paulhe (Jan 2, 2018)

thanks Overandout


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

Overandout said:


> Modelo 210 is a quarterly declaration (last day of the quarter). I think you can wait to pay until the end of the 4th quarter, but we always paid each quarter.


The quarterly tax is rental tax which applies if a non resident is renting the property out. If he is not, then the imputed rental tax is payable annually, by 31 December, for the previous year. Therefore if the OP bought his property in July 2018 and is not renting it out he must submit the Modelo 210 and pay the tax by 31 December 2019.

All you need to know about non-resident taxes in Spain | Ábaco Advisers


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

Lynn R said:


> The quarterly tax is rental tax which applies if a non resident is renting the property out. If he is not, then the imputed rental tax is payable annually, by 31 December, for the previous year. Therefore if the OP bought his property in July 2018 and is not renting it out he must submit the Modelo 210 and pay the tax by 31 December 2019.
> 
> All you need to know about non-resident taxes in Spain | Ábaco Advisers


Yes. This makes sense.

I have paid this tax on two properties, one quarterly which was rented out, and the other at year end which was not.


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## paulhe (Jan 2, 2018)

thank you Lynn, the property is not rented out and you have put my mind at rest. I just need to hear from the lawyer as to why this demand for the retention amount has not been paid by him/the agent


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## paulhe (Jan 2, 2018)

Megsmum said:


> Did you buy through an English woman ans her lawyer?


Hi Megsmum, trying to send you a PM not sure if I can as yet ?


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## paulhe (Jan 2, 2018)

paulhe said:


> hello all, I am seeking some help with a tax demand that I do not think is due to be paid by me. I purchased a house in Martos on 2 July this year. I received a letter from the tax authorities which appears (I have translated the content via google) to demand 210 euros. the letter refers to mondelo 211 and that the decline for the submission of the self assessment was 3 August 2018. Further that, because of non payment, there is now surcharge of 5%. The letter refers to 'real estate retention'.
> 
> Is this something that the seller should pay rather than me?
> 
> ...


Hi once again and happy New year to all. I am still waiting on my agent to confirm that he has paid (or will pay) in the meantime and assuming I get no positive reply from said agent I may need to either pay or challenge the notice I have received. can someone help with advice 1. whether to just pay it and if so how - can I send a cheque (I am currently in Australia so this would be difficult) or is it possible to pay online transferring the amount from my bank account in Spain?
2. If I challenge can I simply submit documents from my agent showing that I paid the full purchase price through the agent and her associate with the expectation that they would withhold the 3%?

how do I complete the form? The demand I received states:

"PROPUESTA DE LIQUIDACION DE RECARGO POR PRESENTACION FUERA DE PLAZO DE AUTOLIQUIDACIO" which details the amount due for non resident withholding tax plus surcharge of 5%

The second sheet of paper is called 

" Modelo para efectuar alegaciones en el procedimiento de liquidacion de recargos" 

The first section of which states: 

"Identificacion del documento" 
NIF: 
Referencia: 

The second section is called 

"Alegaciones" 
D./Dna.............................,con NIF........................................................ 
como................................................de.....................................................,con NIF............................... 
expone que: 

El dia..........................de...........................de..................................he recibo propuesta de liquidacion de recargo por presentacion fuera de plazo de autoliquidacion. En dicho escrito se comunica la puesta de manifiesto del expediente a fin de podor consultar el mismo, alegar lo que entienda conveniente y aportar cualquier documento, justificante o prueba que considere oportuna para la defensa de mis derechos. 

Por todo ello deseo poner de manifiesto la opcion senalada con un (X) de las dos que recogen a continuacion. 

( ) Que, estando de acuerdo con la propuesta contenida en el citado escrito, no presento ninguna alegacion. 

( ) Que no estoy de acuerdo con la propuesta contenida en el citado escrito, por lo que deseo manafestar que: 

Any help gratefully received 
regards
Paul


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## High flyer (Jun 22, 2018)

Could one of you nice people please tell me if the above is relevant if a property is purchased from a Spanish national rather than a non resident, thanks


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

High flyer said:


> Could one of you nice people please tell me if the above is relevant if a property is purchased from a Spanish national rather than a non resident, thanks


I sold a property as a Spanish resident last year (and it's being a Spanish resident which is relevant in these circumstances, not a Spanish national, by the way). The buyer's lawyer did not have to retain the 3% of the purchase price from me in respect of CGT liability, because I obtained a certificate of fiscal residency from the Agencia Tributaria. A resident who did not present such a certificate should have the 3% withheld in the same way as a non-resident. 

I didn't have to pay any CGT because I invested all the sale proceeds in another property within two years (within a couple of months in fact) so just accounted for that in my annual tax return. Any resident who did have CGT to pay would pay the tax when they submitted their next tax return.


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

paulhe said:


> Hi once again and happy New year to all. I am still waiting on my agent to confirm that he has paid (or will pay) in the meantime and assuming I get no positive reply from said agent I may need to either pay or challenge the notice I have received. can someone help with advice 1. whether to just pay it and if so how - can I send a cheque (I am currently in Australia so this would be difficult) or is it possible to pay online transferring the amount from my bank account in Spain?
> 2. If I challenge can I simply submit documents from my agent showing that I paid the full purchase price through the agent and her associate with the expectation that they would withhold the 3%?
> 
> how do I complete the form? The demand I received states:
> ...


My own opinion is that you could try to contest it, but there is no guarantee that it would be successful because ultimately the responsibility lies with you and not the agent, it could be a long drawn out process and further delay could result in more late payment penalties or even an embargo being placed on your Spanish bank account, effectively freezing it. 

So reluctantly, if it were me I would pay it. By the sounds of it you would need to pay someone else (a gestor or lawyer as the original agent - you refer to an agent in your post, did you not use a lawyer for the purchase? - seems to have let you down badly) to handle it for you, and make the payment through them. I don't think you can pay it online, but would be happy if someone else knows otherwise.

Unfortunately these things do happen. Some friends of mine have just had to pay the plus valia on a house they bought although the vendor should have paid it, but did not, and they subsequently became liable for the debt.


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## High flyer (Jun 22, 2018)

Lynn R said:


> I sold a property as a Spanish resident last year (and it's being a Spanish resident which is relevant in these circumstances, not a Spanish national, by the way). The buyer's lawyer did not have to retain the 3% of the purchase price from me in respect of CGT liability, because I obtained a certificate of fiscal residency from the Agencia Tributaria. A resident who did not present such a certificate should have the 3% withheld in the same way as a non-resident.
> 
> I didn't have to pay any CGT because I invested all the sale proceeds in another property within two years (within a couple of months in fact) so just accounted for that in my annual tax return. Any resident who did have CGT to pay would pay the tax when they submitted their next tax return.


The vendor was a Spanish resident, born and bred in Spain, he is now living with his family. We are British and paid cash for his property, so I am assuming no 3% to have been withheld?


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

High flyer said:


> The vendor was a Spanish resident, born and bred in Spain, he is now living with his family. We are British and paid cash for his property, so I am assuming no 3% to have been withheld?


As I said, if he presented a certificate of fiscal residence at the time of completion then the 3% would not have been withheld. If he did not, then the 3% should have been withheld. I have no way of knowing whether your vendor presented such a certificate or not!


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## High flyer (Jun 22, 2018)

Lynn R said:


> As I said, if he presented a certificate of fiscal residence at the time of completion then the 3% would not have been withheld. If he did not, then the 3% should have been withheld. I have no way of knowing whether your vendor presented such a certificate or not!


Many thanks for the reply, I will check with my lawyer on 7th January! After their Christmas break.


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## High flyer (Jun 22, 2018)

High flyer said:


> Many thanks for the reply, I will check with my lawyer on 7th January! After their Christmas break.


Just to be sure of my facts before contacting my lawyer, if the vendor hadn’t submitted a certificate at the time of completion, can this be done retrospectively? He didn’t use a lawyer himself, but his NIF number appears on the documents my lawyer sent me and it quite clearly states on that document that we are taxed in the U.K. and are not currently resident in Spain. This is really bothering me as our lawyer has already failed to carry out certain things and I am having to chase her now!


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

High flyer said:


> Just to be sure of my facts before contacting my lawyer, if the vendor hadn’t submitted a certificate at the time of completion, can this be done retrospectively? He didn’t use a lawyer himself, but his NIF number appears on the documents my lawyer sent me and it quite clearly states on that document that we are taxed in the U.K. and are not currently resident in Spain. This is really bothering me as our lawyer has already failed to carry out certain things and I am having to chase her now!


Sorry I don't know if it can be done retrospectively, but I doubt it. As the buyers, your status as non-residents is not really relevant, it is the tax residency status of the vendor which matters. 

It's so annoying when professionals who charge quite handsomely for their services don't do things properly. Our friends who have ended up paying the plus valia for the property they bought were told by their lawyer, when they first received a bill for this to ignore it and not pay it as the vendor would pay. He did not do so, and they have ended up paying not only the original amount but a hefty surcharge for late payment, some 2 years later. I think they were very badly advised by the lawyer.


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## High flyer (Jun 22, 2018)

Lynn R said:


> Sorry I don't know if it can be done retrospectively, but I doubt it. As the buyers, your status as non-residents is not really relevant, it is the tax residency status of the vendor which matters.
> 
> It's so annoying when professionals who charge quite handsomely for their services don't do things properly. Our friends who have ended up paying the plus valia for the property they bought were told by their lawyer, when they first received a bill for this to ignore it and not pay it as the vendor would pay. He did not do so, and they have ended up paying not only the original amount but a hefty surcharge for late payment, some 2 years later. I think they were very badly advised by the lawyer.


Our lawyer was recommended to us by the overseas guide company, seemed to be going okay until we completed! Won’t answer my emails and palms me off with her secretary, who thankfully is very efficient. I was promised double column documents of everything but only receive the original Spanish version and have to translate everything myself! Received my endesa contract but can’t register my details online as something is wrong on the form she submitted, and other niggles. They are on holiday until after three kings day, so more restless nights. It’s begining to spoil the enjoyment of it all a bit now.


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## paulhe (Jan 2, 2018)

It appears that I will have to pay the non - resident tax plus the surcharge currently applied. I trusted the agent and the person who was held out to me to be a lawyer (in emails and then face to face with him when we went through the title deeds). because the property was not expensive I did not do what I would usually do namely hire my own lawyer independent of the agent and I was content to go with the 'associate' of the agent (they work closely together in Martos and areas surrounding I understand) . He may indeed not in fact be a lawyer (I will check) and may be a gestoria, still one would expect them to be honest and retain the 3% he told me that was necessary for him to do.

It is not a lot of money but it is the principle and as I said I am currently in Australia and cannot travel to Spain until July - does anyone know if it is possible to pay the amount over the telephone or on line some how?

Thank you for your advice and help

Paul


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## paulhe (Jan 2, 2018)

Bumping this up - does anyone know if it is possible to pay the non - resident withholding amount over the telephone or on line some how?


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

paulhe said:


> Bumping this up - does anyone know if it is possible to pay the non - resident withholding amount over the telephone or on line some how?


I have never heard of anyone being able to pay any kind of tax bill over the telephone in Spain. If you had a Spanish digital signature it might be possible to pay it online (but I'm not sure about that) but I suspect you won't have one, being non-resident.

I really think your only chance of getting this paid if you are not going to be in Spain would be to make contact with a reliable gestor (does not have to be in the same area as your property, but I don't use a gestor so can't recommend one), explain what has happened and get them to complete the modelo 211 and pay the tax online on your behalf (with you having transferred the money to their account). I'm sure they would need various documents to be scanned and emailed to them, though - your NIE, copy of your passport to prove your ID, copy of the escritura for the property showing details of the transaction and a copy of the demand you have received for payment, at the very least. Do you have all those with you in Australia?


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## paulhe (Jan 2, 2018)

Thanks Lynn R I really appreciate yours and everyone's help. This is the fist time I have requested assistance . Presumably I can complete the 211 on- line myself and apply for a digital signature or is that not advised ? Is it too late now I have received the demand ? I am arriving in Spain July, can I go to the local tax office then? To be honest once bitten twice shy, I don't want to deal with a gestoria I don't know and trust.
This is not the first property I have purchased but it is the first time with this experience. I think I will post on the Martos thread as clearly this is something others should be aware of if buying there (and dealing with DP and DE).
i am trying to do the right thing and don't want to be penalised further for non payment of this tax. It does seem unfair somehow.
Paul


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## paulhe (Jan 2, 2018)

Yes, I have everything here in Australia, NIE , deeds ect


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

paulhe said:


> Thanks Lynn R I really appreciate yours and everyone's help. This is the fist time I have requested assistance . Presumably I can complete the 211 on- line myself and apply for a digital signature or is that not advised ? Is it too late now I have received the demand ? I am arriving in Spain July, can I go to the local tax office then? To be honest once bitten twice shy, I don't want to deal with a gestoria I don't know and trust.
> This is not the first property I have purchased but it is the first time with this experience. I think I will post on the Martos thread as clearly this is something others should be aware of if buying there (and dealing with DP and DE).
> i am trying to do the right thing and don't want to be penalised further for non payment of this tax. It does seem unfair somehow.
> Paul


You won't be able to get a digital signature whilst you're outside Spain, unfortunately, because the process involves making an application, having a letter with a code sent to your home address which you then have to take to an accredited office (Town Hall, tax office, etc) to have your ID verified.

I can understand your reluctance to put trust in a gestoria you don't know after the experience you have had. You could, I suppose, leave it until you are next in Spain (but I advise you not to leave it until August because it can be hard to get anything done then due to holidays), but what would worry me is if any additional penalties are going to be added due to further delay, or worse still they would embargo your bank account which could lead to all kinds of other problems if direct debits for utilities aren't paid.


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## paulhe (Jan 2, 2018)

Thanks Lynn R, I really appreciate your help. I wonder if anyone can recommend a trustworthy gestoria or should i start a new thread? does anyone have experience with these payments being late and what sort of penalties are applied? It appears 5% has been added so far. I am booked to be in Spain on 30 june but i could be there earlier as I arrive back in UK on 19 june.
Regards

Paul


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## paulhe (Jan 2, 2018)

paulhe said:


> Thanks Lynn R, I really appreciate your help. I wonder if anyone can recommend a trustworthy gestoria or should i start a new thread? does anyone have experience with these payments being late and what sort of penalties are applied? It appears 5% has been added so far. I am booked to be in Spain on 30 june but i could be there earlier as I arrive back in UK on 19 june.
> Regards
> 
> Paul


also does anyone know likely fee for such a service from a gestoria? The amount outstanding is quite small, with current penalty the total amount is 220 euros

thanks again


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