# What does public healthcare include?



## AllHeart (Nov 22, 2013)

What does public healthcare cover in Spain? Here in Canada, public healthcare does not include dentists, psychologists (but psychiatrists are covered), plastic surgery (rarely covered) or medications. Also there are some special lab tests and special procedures that aren't covered. Most medical equipment (such as wheel chairs, medical dressings and wrappings, canes, CPAP machines and much more) is not covered either. Is the public healthcare system similar in Spain?


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## kalohi (May 6, 2012)

It is similar here. The biggest difference would be that depending on your age you get subsidized or free medication. Also, AFAIK all lab tests/procedures are covered.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

AllHeart said:


> What does public healthcare cover in Spain? Here in Canada, public healthcare does not include dentists, psychologists (but psychiatrists are covered), plastic surgery (rarely covered) or medications. Also there are some special lab tests and special procedures that aren't covered. Most medical equipment (such as wheel chairs, medical dressings and wrappings, canes, CPAP machines and much more) is not covered either. Is the public healthcare system similar in Spain?


similar

it doesn't include dentists - although you can get a tooth pulled in the ambulatorio (walk in ER) & I believe that you can have wisdom teeth removed - so maybe essential dental 'surgery' is covered, but not the 'cosmetic' stuff

psychologists & psychiatry are covered as is _essential _plastic surgery

as far as I know all tests are covered (we've not paid for anything like that & between us have had various different kinds of tests) 

equipment - you might be sent home with crutches if you need them, but I've heard of people having to get their own - they're pretty cheap to buy though


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Remember that each autonomous region sets its own healthcare policy and they can differ quite considerably.

In Andalucia, everything is covered except dentistry and opticians, but because of the spending cuts, tests and certain medications are now rationed. Diabetics no longer get free test-strips for example and are only allowed one blood test a year. Your prescriptions are recorded on your card (tarjeta sanitaria) and the chemist can't give you any more until you've almost run out.


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## AllHeart (Nov 22, 2013)

Thank you so much for your replies. It's the similar here in Canada with respect to differences amongst provinces, since healthcare is a provincial jurisdiction. So I googled the word that Alcalaina used "tarjeta sanitaria Andalucía" (I'm almost for sure moving to Andalucía). I found a website that describes healthcare in Andalucía: Junta de Andalucía - Temas: Servicios sanitarios 

Is this the correct government website?


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

AllHeart said:


> Thank you so much for your replies. It's the similar here in Canada with respect to differences amongst provinces, since healthcare is a provincial jurisdiction. So I googled the word that Alcalaina used "tarjeta sanitaria Andalucía" (I'm almost for sure moving to Andalucía). I found a website that describes healthcare in Andalucía: Junta de Andalucía - Temas: Servicios sanitarios
> 
> Is this the correct government website?


Yep.


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## AllHeart (Nov 22, 2013)

Thank you!

Is it typical that people in Spain also have private insurance?


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## AllHeart (Nov 22, 2013)

I found a fantastic thread that discusses private insurance as well as retirement. So, I withdraw my previous question.  

Here is that thread, in case anyone is interested: http://www.expatforum.com/expats/spain-expat-forum-expats-living-spain/299498-health-insurance.html


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

AllHeart said:


> Thank you!
> 
> Is it typical that people in Spain also have private insurance?


Not those who are covered by the state. Why should they? We have found that the health service here is excellent. We only live in a village (pop. 5,000) but we have Urgencias which consists of Dr, Nurse, Driver and an Ambulance on-call 24 hours and if your need to get to a major hospital is very urgent, we have a helipad for "medevac"


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

AllHeart said:


> Thank you!
> 
> Is it typical that people in Spain also have private insurance?


Many Spanish people who are covered by the state scheme also have additional private insurance. They pay a small monthly or annual sum which then gives them discounts on dentistry etc and enables them to jump queues for consultations and minor operations.

This one is typical, it is operated by La Caixa bank.

http://salud.isegurosdesalud.com/seguros-de-salud-adeslas/seguro-de-salud-adeslas-basico.htm


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## kalohi (May 6, 2012)

Alcalaina said:


> Many Spanish people who are covered by the state scheme also have additional private insurance. They pay a small monthly or annual sum which then gives them discounts on dentistry etc and enables them to jump queues for consultations and minor operations.


Jump what queues? The private and the public systems function separately. 

I am covered by the state scheme and yet I also have additional private insurance. I have found that some things work better in the state system and other things work better in the private system, so I use each for different things. It's not expensive to have private cover so why not? I know _many_ people who do this, in fact nearly all of our neighbors and friends. I don't think it's at all unusual.


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## celia50 (Nov 4, 2010)

kalohi said:


> Jump what queues? The private and the public systems function separately. I am covered by the state scheme and yet I also have additional private insurance. I have found that some things work better in the state system and other things work better in the private system, so I use each for different things. It's not expensive to have private cover so why not? I know many people who do this, in fact nearly all of our neighbors and friends. I don't think it's at all unusual.


Can you suggest or advise some private insurance and is dental care included ?


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## AllHeart (Nov 22, 2013)

baldilocks said:


> Not those who are covered by the state. Why should they? We have found that the health service here is excellent. We only live in a village (pop. 5,000) but we have Urgencias which consists of Dr, Nurse, Driver and an Ambulance on-call 24 hours and if your need to get to a major hospital is very urgent, we have a helipad for "medevac"


Hi Baldilocks. Wow, that's amazing healthcare. Public healthcare here in Ontario doesn't cover ambulance - let alone a helipad ambulance! That's super that you have a complete clinic in such a small town.

Kalohi, thanks for your input. This is something I'll definitely consider.

Alcalaina, I checked out your link and see it costs"from 12 euros a month" and then there is a questionnaire to fill out with email to get a quote but you have to give personal details. Do you think this is a safe enough company that I can write them with my personal details?

It's so frightening to be moving to a new country and not knowing anything about anything there. So the information you guys give me here on the forum is so comforting. You are making my unknowns known, which reduces my fear tremendously. Thank you.


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## 213979 (Apr 11, 2013)

AllHeart, I'm 28 and a decent (worth it) health plan for me with Mapfre or Sanitas costs around 50€/month. It will likely be more depending on age and health conditions. 

A consult with a private doc will cost around 50€, so I see no need for health insurance. Also, dentistry is quite cheap compared to back home. For example, I had a root canal done in the States for $1,100 this summer. When I came back here my dentist scolded me because it would have cost about 1/3 of what it did back home. 

I am very happy with the public healthcare here. My husband is "chronically ill" so we're quite familiar with the system in both the Basque Country and Cantabria. I am very happy with both.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Yep I had a root canal and a rebuild of a tooth that had rotted and broken away but was very useful for keeping a denture located - cost €75 at our village dentist.

Optical: I have just had contact lenses and with all the topographical mapping and trial lenses it cost me €230 at the village opticians.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

kalohi said:


> Jump what queues? The private and the public systems function separately.
> 
> I am covered by the state scheme and yet I also have additional private insurance. I have found that some things work better in the state system and other things work better in the private system, so I use each for different things. It's not expensive to have private cover so why not? I know _many_ people who do this, in fact nearly all of our neighbors and friends. I don't think it's at all unusual.



I found this, which may help????

http://www.expatforum.com/expats/sp...96-private-public-healthcare.html#post1252515

Jo xxx


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

kalohi said:


> Jump what queues? The private and the public systems function separately.
> 
> I am covered by the state scheme and yet I also have additional private insurance. I have found that some things work better in the state system and other things work better in the private system, so I use each for different things. It's not expensive to have private cover so why not? I know _many_ people who do this, in fact nearly all of our neighbors and friends. I don't think it's at all unusual.


That's exactly what I was saying! If they need to see a consultant quickly, they use the private providers rather than wait for a referral via the state system. They may still end up being treated under the state system (which usually has better facilities).


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

AllHeart said:


> Alcalaina, I checked out your link and see it costs"from 12 euros a month" and then there is a questionnaire to fill out with email to get a quote but you have to give personal details. Do you think this is a safe enough company that I can write them with my personal details?


The "basic" cover (from €12 a month) is for people already covered by the state system. I wouldn't worry about security issues (La Caixa is one of Spain's leading banks), and obviously they need details of your age and any pre-existing conditions before they can give you a quote.


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## kalohi (May 6, 2012)

Alcalaina said:


> That's exactly what I was saying! If they need to see a consultant quickly, they use the private providers rather than wait for a referral via the state system. They may still end up being treated under the state system (which usually has better facilities).


But a doctor that you see privately can't refer you for treatment in the state system, even if that doctor also works in the state system. That's what I meant when I said that they're separate systems. At least it can't be done legally. In the past it was not uncommon for this to happen, but fortunately this practice has virtually disappeared. In effect it was a form of bribery. You paid a doctor a nice sum in his private clinic and he saw to it that you got to the top of the waiting list for treatment in the state system. Now the waiting lists are all computer controlled. 

On another note, around here it's the private hospitals that have better facilities, hands down. The private hospitals look like luxury hotels. The state hospitals are in dire need of updating. However the care at the state hospitals is top notch, which in the end is the important thing.


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## extranjero (Nov 16, 2012)

Alcalaina said:


> The "basic" cover (from €12 a month) is for people already covered by the state system. I wouldn't worry about security issues (La Caixa is one of Spain's leading banks), and obviously they need details of your age and any pre-existing conditions before they can give you a
> some companies won't cover pre existing conditions, heart problems,diabetes


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## AllHeart (Nov 22, 2013)

Alcalaina said:


> The "basic" cover (from €12 a month) is for people already covered by the state system. I wouldn't worry about security issues (La Caixa is one of Spain's leading banks), and obviously they need details of your age and any pre-existing conditions before they can give you a quote.


Thank you all so much for your guidance and honesty. 

Alcalaina, by "personal information" to obtain an insurance quote, I meant my email address and name, since I never went beyond that screen. I certainly don't want to share my personal healthcare information. They say on the homepage of this site, that their basic insurance is "without a healthcare questionnaire." This is what so many insurance companies claim here, yet you have to do a healthcare questionnaire.

Healthcare insurance here is also similar to what Extranjero says, that if you do in fact have a health condition, then you can get insurance that doesn't cover that health condition, or it's too expensive. 

I checked out the government website about national healthcare, which is here: Salud

I see the cost of national insurance for under 65 years of age is 60 euros, which is about $90 CAD. To me, that's reasonable and it seems like overkill to buy insurance on top of that based on what you guys are saying - most healthcare needs are covered between the public healthcare system and the national insurance. 

I've grown up with public healthcare here in Canada with its inherent problems that you describe here of long waiting lists and not quite so fancy healthcare. So I'm almost comfortable with these problems.

So my decision is to just do public healthcare and then after a year of residency to qualify for national insurance, I'll apply. 

Thanks again for your kind guidance. You guys rock!


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## 213979 (Apr 11, 2013)

AllHeart said:


> I've grown up with public healthcare here in Canada with its inherent problems that you describe here of long waiting lists and not quite so fancy healthcare. So I'm almost comfortable with these problems.


I feel as if healthcare here is even better than in Canada. They just published the average surgery wait time and it was something like 110 days. I think that's pretty reasonable. 


I still remember when mammograms were backed up over a year in Moncton, NB!


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## kalohi (May 6, 2012)

AllHeart said:


> So my decision is to just do public healthcare and then after a year of residency to qualify for national insurance, I'll apply.


I think the two things you are referring to here are one and the same.


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## AllHeart (Nov 22, 2013)

elenetxu said:


> I feel as if healthcare here is even better than in Canada. They just published the average surgery wait time and it was something like 110 days. I think that's pretty reasonable.
> 
> 
> I still remember when mammograms were backed up over a year in Moncton, NB!


110 days? OMG, yes, that's lightening speed here! Wow.


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## AllHeart (Nov 22, 2013)

kalohi said:


> I think the two things you are referring to here are one and the same.


Hi Kalohi. If I am confused, please correct me. My understanding is that once I arrive in Spain, I can immediately register for my Certificado de Empadronamiento, which then allows me to get a health card, and that health card allows me to have public healthcare. Then on top of that, I understand there's the national insurance, which I have to pay for and for which I have to be a resident at minimum of one year, but this insurance provides more healthcare coverage within the public system. Is this correct or incorrect?


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## kalohi (May 6, 2012)

They are both the same thing. The pay-in scheme (which you're calling national insurance) is something brand new, and it's designed so that people who don't have access to state healthcare can get state healthcare.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

AllHeart said:


> Hi Kalohi. If I am confused, please correct me. My understanding is that once I arrive in Spain, I can immediately register for my Certificado de Empadronamiento, which then allows me to get a health card, and that health card allows me to have public healthcare. Then on top of that, I understand there's the national insurance, which I have to pay for and for which I have to be a resident at minimum of one year, but this insurance provides more healthcare coverage within the public system. Is this correct or incorrect?


you're coming as a Spanish citizen - so it's highly likely that you will be able to access state healthcare as soon as you arrive

that doesn't apply to non-Spanish citizens .............we have to either have private insurance or be paying SS via employment or self-employment - or an S1 form from an EU country

after the first year we can access the new 'buy in' scheme - but as kalohi says, that is for those who are unable to access state healthcare in any other way


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## AllHeart (Nov 22, 2013)

kalohi said:


> They are both the same thing. The pay-in scheme (which you're calling national insurance) is something brand new, and it's designed so that people who don't have access to state healthcare can get state healthcare.


Kalohi, that's a perfect way to explain it. Now that I go on the site, what you say is in the first line of who can apply: 

"No tienen la condición de aseguradas ni beneficiarias del Sistema Nacional de Salud por ningún título."

Which according to Google Translate means, 
"Do not have the status of insured or beneficiaries of the National Health System for any title."

Thank you so much for clarifying this.


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## AllHeart (Nov 22, 2013)

xabiachica said:


> you're coming as a Spanish citizen - so it's highly likely that you will be able to access state healthcare as soon as you arrive
> 
> that doesn't apply to non-Spanish citizens .............we have to either have private insurance or be paying SS via employment or self-employment - or an S1 form from an EU country
> 
> after the first year we can access the new 'buy in' scheme - but as kalohi says, that is for those who are unable to access state healthcare in any other way


Thank you for explaining that, Xabiachica. This is a really important to find out if I'm covered before moving to Spain. Perhaps I should write Spain to find out?

Does that mean public healthcare will be free for me?


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

AllHeart said:


> Thank you for explaining that, Xabiachica. This is a really important to find out if I'm covered before moving to Spain. Perhaps I should write Spain to find out?
> 
> Does that mean public healthcare will be free for me?


I don't know for sure, so maybe ask the consulate, they should know

then let us know


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## Brangus (May 1, 2010)

elenetxu said:


> I feel as if healthcare here is even better than in Canada. They just published the average surgery wait time and it was something like 110 days.


Is that a national average or a regional figure?
I'm guessing it doesn't include Castilla-La Mancha....


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## AllHeart (Nov 22, 2013)

xabiachica said:


> I don't know for sure, so maybe ask the consulate, they should know
> 
> then let us know


Xabiachica, that's a great idea. I just called the Embassy of Spain in Ottawa, and they want me to write up an email with my questions, because they said it's important to have these things in writing. She didn't give me a limit on the number of questions, so I'll ask all my questions, including this question about healthcare, as well as questions about being self-employed (autonomo), and the steps that need to be taken upon arrival in Spain. So I'll post here, as you suggest, when the answer comes in. Thanks again for the idea to contact them.

Just a really cute story to add to this... So when I called the embassy, I spoke in Spanish, but I have very limited Spanish. So I spoke for about a minute in Spanish, being oh so careful not to mess up the language, but as I kept speaking I kept count of the mistakes I was probably making. At the end of the minute, my head was spinning and I couldn't breathe, and then of course I couldn't speak Spanish anymore. Then I just stopped, gasped for a breath of air, and asked her if she spoke English. I said I was just too nervous to speak in Spanish to her. She laughed gently and said, "That's why it's easier for children to learn a new language than an adult, because children don't feel shame."


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

AllHeart said:


> Xabiachica, that's a great idea. I just called the Embassy of Spain in Ottawa, and they want me to write up an email with my questions, because they said it's important to have these things in writing. She didn't give me a limit on the number of questions, so I'll ask all my questions, including this question about healthcare, as well as questions about being self-employed (autonomo), and the steps that need to be taken upon arrival in Spain. So I'll post here, as you suggest, when the answer comes in. Thanks again for the idea to contact them.
> 
> Just a really cute story to add to this... So when I called the embassy, I spoke in Spanish, but I have very limited Spanish. So I spoke for about a minute in Spanish, being oh so careful not to mess up the language, but as I kept speaking I kept count of the mistakes I was probably making. At the end of the minute, my head was spinning and I couldn't breathe, and then of course I couldn't speak Spanish anymore. Then I just stopped, gasped for a breath of air, and asked her if she spoke English. I said I was just too nervous to speak in Spanish to her. She laughed gently and said, "That's why it's easier for children to learn a new language than an adult, because children don't feel shame."



at least you tried 

she's right too

lots of adults find that _el español fluye mejor con vino 

































_Spanish flows better with wine


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

xabiachica said:


> at least you tried
> 
> she's right too
> 
> ...


and with enough of it, you don't give a dam if it should be masculine or feminine.


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## AllHeart (Nov 22, 2013)

You guys are too funny! 



baldilocks said:


> and with enough of it, you don't give a dam if it should be masculine or feminine.


Baldilocks, I'm assuming you're referring to words - not people? 

I just emailed the embassy to confirm that I had the right email address to ask them questions - without posing my questions. They already responded by giving me two links with tons of information for Spanish citizens moving to Spain. They said I can contact them again with any questions. I haven't gone through this yet, but on a quick look-over, this looks like fabulous info.

Portal de la CiudadanÃ­a EspaÃ±ola en el Exterior: SecretarÃ­a General de InmigraciÃ³n y EmigraciÃ³n.: Oficina de Retorno

Ministerio de Empleo y Seguridad Social: CANADÁ - Retorno a España


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## AllHeart (Nov 22, 2013)

It took a while to weed through all the information about healthcare in Spain. The website information for Spaniards is mostly in Spanish, so I had a hard time understanding all the info. Policy and laws are different Spanish than conversational Spanish. I've had the help of my Spanish-speaking neighbours, the Embassy of Spain in Ottawa, and a very kind and generous forum member. So the translation is done, and the answer is yes, that I'm allowed to have public healthcare upon getting certain pieces of ID in Spain. It's going to be really fast to get enrolled in healthcare once I get there. It is free, as long as I don't make over 100.000 euros. Yeah, right. 

I received fabulous news last week that the Embassy of Spain in Sweden has approved my Spanish citizenship, and my citizenship papers were sent to the Consulate of Spain in Toronto on March 14th. I'm still holding my breath, though, because I won't count this as a done deal until I hear this is true from the Consulate. You know that thing about counting your chickens before they're hatched?  But I'm pretty pumped as I await the Consulate's phone call.


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## Goldeneye (Nov 12, 2011)

Congratulations..... :fingerscrossed:

My husband is currently in the UK to visit his Mum, for quite a number of years we have wanted to move closer to family members who are all in Europe, Spain really does seem to be ticking most of the boxes for us.
He attended 'A place in the Sun' Live _( It's a British TV show we don't get in Canada, unless you do naughty things with your internet access) _ 

We had 3 final concerns that need addressing...
1) ...
2) Healthcare
3)

2) Healthcare : He spoke with someone from the Spanish Consul who said that Spanish healthcare was excellent ( yeah I know I guess he would wouldn't he)  
Costa Blanca where we are hoping to move to.. is one of the few places in Spain where you now can pay a monthly fee for healthcare like we do in Canada about 80 - 100 euros a month... So no problem there.
Said go to Health Care In Spain | Working through the British consulate looking to offer information on health care requirements for UK residents living and working in Spain

Good Luck, hope you get everything sorted..


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Goldeneye said:


> Congratulations..... :fingerscrossed:
> 
> My husband is currently in the UK to visit his Mum, for quite a number of years we have wanted to move closer to family members who are all in Europe, Spain really does seem to be ticking most of the boxes for us.
> He attended 'A place in the Sun' Live _( It's a British TV show we don't get in Canada, unless you do naughty things with your internet access) _
> ...


you have to be a registered resident for 12 months before you qualify for that scheme


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## AllHeart (Nov 22, 2013)

Hey Goldeneye. What a treat to hear from you.  




Goldeneye said:


> Congratulations.....


Thank you. 



Goldeneye said:


> My husband is currently in the UK to visit his Mum, for quite a number of years we have wanted to move closer to family members who are all in Europe, , Spain really does seem to be ticking most of the boxes for us.


Yes, family is very important. I'm happy to hear he's hanging with his Mum.




Goldeneye said:


> He attended 'A place in the Sun' Live _( It's a British TV show we don't get in Canada, unless you do naughty things with your internet access)_


Cool. Live entertainment has a special feel to it. No, I haven't heard of that show. I don't do naughty things to my internet. You know that I'm a straight-laced Canadian gal. 




Goldeneye said:


> We had 3 final concerns that need addressing...





Goldeneye said:


> 1) ...
> 2) Healthcare
> 3)
> 
> ...


I've heard the same from forum members in this and other threads. They don't have a vested interested in saying so, so I believe it to be true. Isn't it fab how we can get so much info off the Internet now? 

That's great that you're finally narrowing down your new location. I've still got my heart set on Malaga Capital, which some may consider to be pretty far from Costa Blanca. However, being from this huge country of Canada gives me a different perspective on distance. We'll be just a hop, a skip and a jump away from each other . 




Goldeneye said:


> Good Luck, hope you get everything sorted..


Thank you and ditto.


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## Goldeneye (Nov 12, 2011)

AllHeart said:


> That's great that you're finally narrowing down your new location. I've still got my heart set on Malaga Capital, which some may consider to be pretty far from Costa Blanca. However, being from this huge country of Canada gives me a different perspective on distance. We'll be just a hop, a skip and a jump away from each other . ]


LOL.. I hear ya on the hop skip and a jump.. I did a Google maps thing to find out how far away Granada was, from Javea...(_nice place to go for a long weekend)_ Only 4 hrs 20 mins.. As you say, by Canadian standards just a hop skip and a jump away!!
We too really liked Malaga, but for us, something about Javea and the Jalon Valley resonates... Also easy connections to visit family members.

To anyone else reading this.. You really don't want to consider Javea.. Shhhh it's a secret!! 
..
..


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## AllHeart (Nov 22, 2013)

I haven't asked here this specific question yet, and I'm unable to find the answer on the Andalucía Healthcare website here: Junta de Andalucía - Temas: Servicios sanitarios

So hopefully somebody here knows the answer... In Andalucia, does public healthcare include physiotherapy, chiropractic treatment and therapeutic massage? I need to know this in order to do my budget. (These aren't covered by public healthcare in Canada.) I hope someone knows the answer.


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## extranjero (Nov 16, 2012)

Physiotherapy should be covered, but I bet the others aren't!


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## kalohi (May 6, 2012)

AllHeart said:


> I haven't asked here this specific question yet, and I'm unable to find the answer on the Andalucía Healthcare website here: Junta de Andalucía - Temas: Servicios sanitarios
> 
> So hopefully somebody here knows the answer... In Andalucia, does public healthcare include physiotherapy, chiropractic treatment and therapeutic massage? I need to know this in order to do my budget. (These aren't covered by public healthcare in Canada.) I hope someone knows the answer.


Chiropractors and therapeutic massage aren't covered, but physiotherapy is, as long as its been prescribed by your doctor. BUT, at least in Seville the waiting lists are beyond belief. We have a friend who had a knee operation last September and they still haven't notified him that he can start his physio. He gave up waiting months ago and paid for it out of pocket to be done privately.


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## AllHeart (Nov 22, 2013)

extranjero said:


> Physiotherapy should be covered, but I bet the others aren't!


Extranjero, according to Kalohi's response... Too bad you weren't actually betting. You could have made millions!


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## AllHeart (Nov 22, 2013)

kalohi said:


> Chiropractors and therapeutic massage aren't covered, but physiotherapy is, as long as its been prescribed by your doctor. BUT, at least in Seville the waiting lists are beyond belief. We have a friend who had a knee operation last September and they still haven't notified him that he can start his physio. He gave up waiting months ago and paid for it out of pocket to be done privately.


Thanks, Kalohi. Bummer. There is a physiotherapy clinic here too that is covered under public healthcare - for those who can't afford it. But their waiting list is also super long - four months - though not as bad as in Seville. Yikes since September is atrocious! Who knows what the quality of care is - let alone the danger of not getting treatment right away. I no longer have private insurance, so I pay out of pocket too. My therapist is absolutely top notch, though. That's what I have to do - is budget for healthcare, because life falls apart if your body does.


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