# pension



## musie (Dec 23, 2014)

hi may have asked this before ,but will I be taxed on my nhs pension of 6,000 pound per annum when I move to mallorca
cheers any advice greatly received all getting rather confusing


----------



## extranjero (Nov 16, 2012)

Not if that is your only income


----------



## larryzx (Jul 2, 2014)

musie said:


> hi may have asked this before ,but will I be taxed on my *nhs pension* of 6,000 pound per annum when I move to mallorca
> cheers any advice greatly received all getting rather confusing


Is that a NHS former employee pension ie. a Crown Pension, or the State Retirement Penson. They are taxed differently.


----------



## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

musie said:


> hi may have asked this before ,but will I be taxed on my nhs pension of 6,000 pound per annum when I move to mallorca
> cheers any advice greatly received all getting rather confusing


... as above but you *should *still do a tax return in Spain.


----------



## extranjero (Nov 16, 2012)

My NHS pension is taxed in Spain


----------



## larryzx (Jul 2, 2014)

extranjero said:


> My NHS pension is taxed in Spain


Is that a pension as a former employee, which would be a crown pension and thus only taxable in UK, or a state retirement pension (OAP) which is taxable only in Spain?


----------



## extranjero (Nov 16, 2012)

I was a former employee for the NHS, but according to HMRC It is not treated as a crown pension, as I found out when I applied for it to be exempted from UK tax.


----------



## musie (Dec 23, 2014)

Hi NHS cheers


----------



## musie (Dec 23, 2014)

Hi so are you having to pay tax on it in Spain thanks


----------



## musie (Dec 23, 2014)

larryzx said:


> Is that a pension as a former employee, which would be a crown pension and thus only taxable in UK, or a state retirement pension (OAP) which is taxable only in Spain?


Hi NHS early retirement at 50 was made redundant so took smaller pension


----------



## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

larryzx said:


> Is that a pension as a former employee, which would be a crown pension and thus only taxable in UK, or a state retirement pension (OAP) which is taxable only in Spain?


Sorry Larry but your OAP is also taxable in UK except that if you have no other income, your personal allowance will, in 99.9% cases, cover it. However, if you have other pension income, your OAP will be first deducted from your personal allowance and any balance will be applied to other income, thereby taxing you on your OAP.


----------



## larryzx (Jul 2, 2014)

baldilocks said:


> Sorry Larry but your OAP is also taxable in UK except that if you have no other income, your personal allowance will, in 99.9% cases, cover it. However, if you have other pension income, your OAP will be first deducted from your personal allowance and any balance will be applied to other income, thereby taxing you on your OAP.


Well HMRC and Hacienda, do not agree with you, and there will a lot of posters here too.

Over 20 years ago HMRC sent me paperwork, which I took to Hacienda. I was told by HMRC as from then, although my Crown Pension would continue to be taxed as source, all the rest of my income, including my OAP would be taxable in Spain. They even sent me a refund for tax I had paid that year in UK


I thus get full tax relief in UK and in Spain. If I lived in UK then as you say the OAP would be added to Crown Pension I would pay tax on all of it. But in fact get my OAP tax free as a result of the Spanish tax relief. Thus I save about 4,000€ tax per year over a person living in UK.

It is unlike you Baldilocks to get it wrong.


----------



## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

larryzx said:


> Well HMRC and Hacienda, do not agree with you, and there will a lot of posters here too.
> 
> Over 20 years ago HMRC sent me paperwork, which I took to Hacienda. I was told by HMRC as from then, although my Crown Pension would continue to be taxed as source, all the rest of my income, including my OAP would be taxable in Spain. They even sent me a refund for tax I had paid that year in UK
> 
> ...


I am merely stating what it says on my HMRC tax coding sheet.


----------



## larryzx (Jul 2, 2014)

baldilocks said:


> I am merely stating what it says on my HMRC tax coding sheet.


Again unlike you Baldilocks, you have something wrong. 

I can say without any shadow of a doubt that if one is tax resident in Spain the OAP must be taxed here and not in UK. There is no choice.

I have not got the time now to look for the partcular paragraph which deals with this at (Double TAxation Agreement between Spain and UK , 2013 effcetive from 2014) 

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/taxtreaties/in-force/spain-dtc.pdf


----------



## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

I think the situation Baldilocks is describing is the way in which taxation of the state pension is dealt with for residents of the UK.


----------



## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

baldilocks said:


> Sorry Larry but your OAP is also taxable in UK except that if you have no other income, your personal allowance will, in 99.9% cases, cover it. However, if you have other pension income, your OAP will be first deducted from your personal allowance and any balance will be applied to other income, thereby taxing you on your OAP.





Lynn R said:


> I think the situation Baldilocks is describing is the way in which taxation of the state pension is dealt with for residents of the UK.



Am I not correct in that I thought one could ask to have OAP (state pensions) paid gross if one lived abroad?

I agree, most people won't have done this but it is a possibility and it seems this is what Larry has done.


----------



## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

snikpoh said:


> Am I not correct in that I thought one could ask to have OAP (state pensions) paid gross if one lived abroad?
> 
> I agree, most people won't have done this but it is a possibility and it seems this is what Larry has done.


Yes, I believe so, and you can have occupational pensions other than Crown pensions paid gross too. You need to provide proof you are making Spanish tax returns though - after all, they need to make sure you are paying tax somewhere!


----------



## 90199 (Mar 21, 2010)

snikpoh said:


> Am I not correct in that I thought one could ask to have OAP (state pensions) paid gross if one lived abroad?
> 
> I agree, most people won't have done this but it is a possibility and it seems this is what Larry has done.


Yes you are correct mine is paid gross, also there is an exception for the Govt. pension not to be taxed in the U.K., complicated it is, but would be very worthwhile for me if in the unlikely event that the, U.K. tax allowance for Ex Pats is forfeited. better to have more than one iron in the fire.


----------



## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Apart from my OAP, I have several small pensions which are paid in the UK. One of them I could have paid in Spain but the cost thereof would mean that all I received would be about 5 € so it makes sense to have them paid to a bank account in UK for making purchases there (Amazon, Ebay, etc.) and the occasional large purchase here, such as paying for a holiday.


----------



## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

baldilocks said:


> Apart from my OAP, I have several small pensions which are paid in the UK. One of them I could have paid in Spain but the cost thereof would mean that all I received would be about 5 € so it makes sense to have them paid to a bank account in UK for making purchases there (Amazon, Ebay, etc.) and the occasional large purchase here, such as paying for a holiday.


... yes but you can still choose to have them paid gross.


----------



## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

snikpoh said:


> ... yes but you can still choose to have them paid gross.


Exactly. It doesn't matter whether you have the pensions paid into a UK or a Spanish bank account, as long as you are a Spanish taxpayer and can provide proof of this (I believe you need to obtain a certificate of fiscal residency from Hacienda) then the state pension and occupational pensions (other than Crown pensions) can be paid gross.


----------



## dollyc (Mar 18, 2015)

so much knowledge, thank you. I too have an nhs pension on which I pay tax in the UK, if I am resident in Spain for more than 183 days/year does this mean that I then pay tax in Spain instead of the UK? If I kept below the 183 days then I pay tax in the UK? I am actually temporarily resident in Tanzania but Spain is on the horizon.


----------



## larryzx (Jul 2, 2014)

dollyc said:


> so much knowledge, thank you. I too have an nhs pension on which I pay tax in the UK, if I am resident in Spain for more than 183 days/year does this mean that I then pay tax in Spain instead of the UK? If I kept below the 183 days then I pay tax in the UK? I am actually temporarily resident in Tanzania but Spain is on the horizon.


If the NHS pension is the kind which MUST be taxed at source in UK (I undestand there 2 kinds). Then take a look at my post at No. 12. You too might save a lot.


----------

