# e-File Form 1040NR for 2019



## xUSCAL (Dec 21, 2018)

Hoping to get some help on this forum from people with similar experience. Renounced in 2018 and filed my final 1040 (MFJ) together with Form 8854 to exit tax system as required. Thought I don't need to file anymore but wasn't the case because hubby withdrew substantial amount ($118K) from IRA but forgot to change his w/h as a non-citizen. So trustee still withholding federal and state taxes at old rate on file. I estimate his federal taxes will come to about $28K (24% tax bracket) for 2019. Also have received some 1099-R and some 1042-S from my pension trustees and 1099-SSA from Social Security. I am very confused as I have already changed my address to overseas. Is there something else I missed? 

1) Had been using Turbo Tax to file in prior years as citizen, but told that it doesn't support 1040NR. Anyone knows which software I can use to e-file 1040NR for 2019 ? Will the software accept all the different forms that I received? 

2) I am assuming my filing deadline is June 15, but if I need to fix the forms, and will have to file extension Form 4868, where can I e-file these forms? And can I pay from my US bank account? 

3) I noticed that Form 1040NR does not have category for MFJ in 2019. Do I then have to file MFS? In this case, do I need to file form 4868 separately too?

4) Will also need to file state taxes to claim the CA tax withholding.

Sorry I have so many questions. Hoping to draw from the experience of kind people on this forum. 

:fingerscrossed:


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## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

OK - YOU renounced, but what is/was hubby's status? Was he a US citizen too? Or was he an NRA filing jointly with you by election?



> hubby withdrew substantial amount ($118K) from IRA but forgot to change his w/h as a non-citizen. So trustee still withholding federal and state taxes at old rate on file


OK, this is apparently the source of the problem. If hubby renounced along with you, first move should be to notify the holder of the IRA of his change in status (i.e. provide them with a copy of his CLN and W8 BEN). 



> Also have received some 1099-R and some 1042-S from my pension trustees and 1099-SSA from Social Security. I am very confused as I have already changed my address to overseas. Is there something else I missed?


For Social Security, you are supposed to notify the SSA of the loss of nationality. If there is a Federal Benefits Unit at the consulate where you renounced, contact them to handle that. You should also indicate that on your next questionnaire from the SSA regarding your status. You should also notify any pension agencies.


> 1) Had been using Turbo Tax to file in prior years as citizen, but told that it doesn't support 1040NR. Anyone knows which software I can use to e-file 1040NR for 2019 ? Will the software accept all the different forms that I received?


I don't believe you can e-file a 1040NR. You'll probably need to do it the old fashioned way (i.e. paper and pen) or wait for them to contact you while you notify the appropriate paying agencies of your change in status.


> 2) I am assuming my filing deadline is June 15, but if I need to fix the forms, and will have to file extension Form 4868, where can I e-file these forms? And can I pay from my US bank account?


As a non-citizen, you are playing by different rules now. You need to take a look at IRS Publication 519 Tax Guide for Aliens https://www.irs.gov/forms-pubs/about-publication-519


> 3) I noticed that Form 1040NR does not have category for MFJ in 2019. Do I then have to file MFS? In this case, do I need to file form 4868 separately too?


As an "alien" you aren't subject to the usual citizen taxpayer categories. Basically, there is a flat tax (subject to only a few adjustments) of 30%.



> 4) Will also need to file state taxes to claim the CA tax withholding.


Be sure you file an NR form for California. They can be really sticky about refunding taxes withheld.

As far as I know, though, each of you will have to file a separate 1040NR, indicating that you are married (the only options on the NR form are single or married - no joint filing apparently). 

I know it doesn't help you any, but thanks for the reminder to those lurkers who have renounced that you should send proper notification (CLN and W8BEN) to all payers you are dealing with in the US so that they will handle the withholding in an appropriate manner.


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## JustLurking (Mar 25, 2015)

Bevdeforges said:


> OK - YOU renounced, but what is/was hubby's status? Was he a US citizen too? Or was he an NRA filing jointly with you by election?


Assuming neither the OP nor their spouse was a US citizen at the time of the IRA withdrawal, and this withdrawal was the only US source income for both the OP and their spouse, it sounds like the OP does not need to file a US tax return _at all_.

Rather, it is the OP's _spouse_ that needs to file one, to recover any US tax over-withholding (or pay any under-withholding, depending on which way things went). There is no MFJ option for nonresident aliens, so the the OP's spouse would have to file MFS. Also, there is no standard deduction or personal exemption for nonresident aliens.


Bevdeforges said:


> As an "alien" you aren't subject to the usual citizen taxpayer categories. Basically, there is a flat tax (subject to only a few adjustments) of 30%.


Maybe, or maybe not. If the OP and spouse live in a country with a tax treaty with the US, this will often control. For example, the US/UK tax treaty has a 0% US tax rate on non-lump sum withdrawals from US pensions paid to US nonresident aliens living in the UK, with sole taxing rights reserved to the UK. (And for lump sums, a reversal; no UK tax, but normal US tax, all at ECI rates under the 'nondiscrimination clause'.)

Absent a treaty, the default US tax treatment for pensions is that the contributions element of withdrawals is taxed as ECI, and the gains on those contributions is taxed at a flat 30%. Often hard or impossible to compute, as the records can be long gone by the time they're needed here, lost in multiple rollovers for example.


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## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

JustLurking said:


> Maybe, or maybe not. If the OP and spouse live in a country with a tax treaty with the US, this will often control. For example, the US/UK tax treaty has a 0% US tax rate on non-lump sum withdrawals from US pensions paid to US nonresident aliens living in the UK, with sole taxing rights reserved to the UK. (And for lump sums, a reversal; no UK tax, but normal US tax, all at ECI rates under the 'nondiscrimination clause'.)
> 
> Absent a treaty, the default US tax treatment for pensions is that the contributions element of withdrawals is taxed as ECI, and the gains on those contributions is taxed at a flat 30%. Often hard or impossible to compute, as the records can be long gone by the time they're needed here, lost in multiple rollovers for example.


Pensions, yes. But IRAs may be treated differently, depending on which country has predominant taxing rights. If the US is taxing your IRA withdrawals, it's at the flat 30% rate (at least for a Traditional IRA). You'll also find that the financial agency holding the IRA may have a policy of withholding at the 30% rate for all withdrawals being transferred overseas unless you have a W9 or W8-BEN on file with them that gives other information.

See also Publication 915 on Social Security benefits. They have a list in there of the dozen or so countries with tax treaties that give the country of residence the right to tax US SS benefits. (That may well be applicable to IRAs and 401Ks, though this isn't always clarified in the treaties.)


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## JustLurking (Mar 25, 2015)

Bevdeforges said:


> If the US is taxing your IRA withdrawals, it's at the flat 30% rate (at least for a Traditional IRA).


I'm pretty sure that is not true, both from text in IRS pub 519, and also where Phil Hodgen dissects things fully in this article:


> The money in an IRA comes from two components. One is the contributions: what you put into the IRA every year. The other is the earnings: after you made a contribution, the investments created capital gain, dividends and interest.
> ...
> The glory of the Internal Revenue Code is such that we must separate out these two elements, and do separate tax calculations on each. We must analyze each component for “source of income” purposes.


The ideal is of course to have access to a tax treaty whose treatment avoids this IRS insanity.


Bevdeforges said:


> You'll also find that the financial agency holding the IRA may have a policy of withholding at the 30% rate for all withdrawals being transferred overseas unless you have a W9 or W8-BEN on file with them that gives other information.


Some apparently have a policy of withholding 30% no matter what W9 or W-8BEN is on file (Fidelity for example, anecdotally), and in complete contravention of the IRS's published withholding table for payments made to nonresident aliens.

This is unhelpful and obstructive behaviour on the part of the provider, since it forces the recipient to file a US tax return, and the IRS to expend resources processing it, where none would otherwise be required. Seemingly not the case for the OP here, though.


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## xUSCAL (Dec 21, 2018)

Thank you to all for sharing your experience and knowledge. Wow....sounds complicating. I need more time to digest all this information and decide what I am able to accomplish within the time frame. Looks like I have to file form 4868 for extension since it will take time to contact all the trustees and wait for them to respond/send the revised tax forms.

1) I assume will have to file separate form 4868 and pay the estimated taxes separately since now we have to file MFS? 

2) Can form 4868 be e-filed, so I can pay by direct withdrawal from my US bank account? I don't want to pay via credit card as hubby owes quite a substantial amount and there are charges/fees.

Thanks again for your valuable time and sharing.


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## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

This is the information about filing a 1040 NR
https://www.irs.gov/individuals/international-taxpayers/taxation-of-nonresident-aliens

Generally speaking, the system is set up so that you don't actually have to file an NR form unless you have US based business income or you are looking to get a refund of taxes overwithheld. But the good news is that the deadline for filing is effectively June 15th (like for all overseas residents).


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