# New to the forum - Haven't made the move yet - go easy on me



## FedupwiththeUK (Feb 26, 2013)

Hi all,
My name is Jonathan and i have been reading this forum for a few months now. 

My story is im just simply fed up with the weather here in the UK (Wales), Im looking to either live in spain for 6 months of the year or permanently. Should be in a position to buy in the next 12-15 months but will be keeping a close eye on the market prices. 

Im a mechanical engineer by trade but i run a renewables company in the UK, Im not sure if my business could work in spain but i dont really mind if it wouldn't take off as its just an idea.

If we go full time as a permanent resident Im looking for an area that is not to far in the sticks but not full of tourists, I want to learn spanish and really try the spanish way of life. I keep liking the things i dont do and disliking the things i do so a change of lifestyle is needed. I would like my children to go to a spanish school and spend time with the locals but have some people around me that i can talk to and ask for guidance in my first few years out there. (hopefully you guys)

Just a few questions if any can help me out please. 

1. Im 30 years of age and have a young family, are many people out there in my age bracket and if not what is the reasoning for this?

2. Do many people offer renewables such as solar, thermodynamics, spray foam insulation or biomass boilers? This is my specialist area and i would like to stick with what i know. i dont see many villas with solar but you live in an area with excellent sun potential?

3. I seem drawn to the area around the north of Malaga, I know you will all like your own areas and there are positives and negatives for all but is there any areas i should really stay away from and why?

4. My wife is a web designer by trade and a beauty therapist offering all the usual girly pampering and things such as teeth whitening and hair dressing, could she earn a little income or is it saturated over there?

5. Crime over here is high and i want to rid this for my children, do many get burgled or attacked as i have been reading some articles recently but i imagine this is just scaremongering.

Sorry to be so to the point but any help or guidance is muchly appreciated, really looking to make some friends who have experienced this first hand.

Regards 

Jonathan


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Lotsa questions!! But yes, we'll be gentle with you, altho you probably wont like what we've got to say. 

Times are hard in Spain. The first thing you need to think about is that to become a resident, you'll need to porve an income and healthcare provision - that really needs to be done within 90 days. 

Work is so hard to find, mechanics and beauty therapists arent in demand, especially if you're not fluent in Spanish. Web design maybe possible, altho there are a fair few around.

Solar panels are everywhere in the Nerja area and there are many companies around who install them, altho with the economy as it is, its an initial outlay that few home owners can afford and tenants obviously wont. So its a struggling market right now

I recommend you go out for a long holiday a couple of months maybe and see how things work out - dont burn your UK bridges tho. If it works then great, but if it doesnt, then you can return to your UK life with the minimum disturbance

Jo xxx


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## FedupwiththeUK (Feb 26, 2013)

Thanks JoJo, 
My plan would be to keep my business in the UK and leave this running to supplement my income, the idea of duplicating the business in spain was purely an idea or generating extra income (typical Brit thing to try and do, work work work and no enjoying life)

We are planning a 1 month visit first, car hire and sat nav. I did look to stay in a place called alora just north of malaga. 

Would you recommend a good base for searching around?

Also is it possible to have dual residency as i would need to stay a UK resident for limited company reasons, i was thinking along the lines of my wife becoming spanish resident and me staying as UK. Im probably totally wrong on this matter but i would need to seek legal advise.

Good to hear the renewables are out and about i just have not seen many on the villas im looking at, this may sound alittle dull but do expats prefer to deal with english workmen or spanish - please ignore my lack of knowledge here but im sensing that if i were out there i would prefer to deal with someone i can fully understand and have built a friendship up with.

regards 

jonathan


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

FedupwiththeUK said:


> Thanks JoJo,
> My plan would be to keep my business in the UK and leave this running to supplement my income, the idea of duplicating the business in spain was purely an idea or generating extra income (typical Brit thing to try and do, work work work and no enjoying life)
> 
> We are planning a 1 month visit first, car hire and sat nav. I did look to stay in a place called alora just north of malaga.
> ...


No you cant have dual residency, and no you dont need to be a UK resident to be a company director. I'm a company director, and a Spanish resident. Your income though will be taxed in Spain


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

Having re read that, do you mean by dual residency .. your wife as a Spanish resident and you as a UK resident, or you being a spanish and Uk resident?


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## FedupwiththeUK (Feb 26, 2013)

Stravinsky said:


> Having re read that, do you mean by dual residency .. your wife as a Spanish resident and you as a UK resident, or you being a spanish and Uk resident?


Thanks for the reply Stravinsky, the reason i was thinking me keeping as a UK resident was for corporation tax and dividends, i havant looked in to this but im half director with another UK resident and he will be staying in the UK, so im wondering if i move to spain could this effect our business and tax payments. Im unsure how i can pay spanish tax as i take very little wage and tend to pay myself via dividends as this suits my needs.

I meant my wife be spanish and me be Uk. 

Regards


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

FedupwiththeUK said:


> Thanks for the reply Stravinsky, the reason i was thinking me keeping as a UK resident was for corporation tax and dividends, i havant looked in to this but im half director with another UK resident and he will be staying in the UK, so im wondering if i move to spain could this effect our business and tax payments. Im unsure how i can pay spanish tax as i take very little wage and tend to pay myself via dividends as this suits my needs.
> 
> I meant my wife be spanish and me be Uk.
> 
> Regards


Its going to get a little bit of a grey area. Your family will live in Spain and therefore it could be deemed that you are habitually resident in Spain. You will need to *not* be in Spain for more than 183 days to *not* be a tax resident here. Dividends will be regarded here in Spain as income and if you are a tax resident then it will be taxable here. It may be that you pay tax on it in the UK at a lower rate, but the Spanish will want their bit as well as tax rates are slightly higher here in general

As I said, I am a UK company director and it makes no difference to the business, other than I had to prove my address in Spain for the bank account.


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## zenkarma (Feb 15, 2013)

FedupwiththeUK said:


> Also is it possible to have dual residency as i would need to stay a UK resident for limited company reasons, i was thinking along the lines of my wife becoming spanish resident and me staying as UK. Im probably totally wrong on this matter but i would need to seek legal advise.


Hi Jonathan

Not sure what you mean by dual residency.

As an EU Citizen according to EU law you have the right to live and work in Spain - there's nothing the Spanish authorities can do to stop you.

However, the EU have allowed countries to add stipulations to this and Spain have recently introduced a rule that anyone planning to live in Spain for 6 months or longer will need to register as a resident and provide details on sufficient income and health insurance to live there without being a burden on the Spanish welfare and health systems.

If you live there for more than 183 days in any tax year, you will be considered a tax resident. Even if you yourself don't live there for this amount of time, the fact that your wife and family live there may well make you a tax resident in which case you will be liable to tax on all worldwide sources of income. The UK Inland revenue will take their cut and the Spanish hacienda will take theirs.

This is something you need to investigate in some depth and detail.

The big question is this - can you afford to live there on what you're earning? At the end of the day it all comes down to money.

You can't really assume you will make any money on Spain. The economy there is rock bottom, with high unemployment and rising taxes.

It's also not wise to buy in this market and economy, if you must try it, for goodness sake rent first, so you can get out and go back to the UK with the minimum of outlay.

I would suggest you ideally need about €15-20k minimum after tax income for a family renting, if it's much less than this think very carefully about what you plan to do and please do not assume you can generate any income in Spain.

Cost out the worst case scenario and see if the figures add up, also consider the £ reaching parity with the € (this is why I've quoted € figures and not £ ones) because the UK government seems determined to allow the £ to fall against most currencies.

I hear what you're saying about the UK, but please don't assume it's better in Spain.


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## zenkarma (Feb 15, 2013)

FedupwiththeUK said:


> I meant my wife be spanish and me be Uk.


As Stravinsky rightly says, it's a grey area.

The hacienda will argue, that if your family is permanently domiciled in Spain ie living there full time, then the family is domiciled there and that will include you too, regardless that your UK Ltd company is registered in Spain and regardless of how many days you spend in the UK or Spain.

This is something you will need to take legal and/or tax advice over.

The UK Inland Revenue argue this as well, particularly for inheritance tax. They'll argue that if you haven't fully cut all ties from the UK, ie have a house there or relatives or family then you're UK domiciled for inheritance tax regardless that you live in Spain full time.

Mini rant:

It's quite disgusting that these tax pariahs will argue over who gets your tax money but such is the way of these putrid politicians. It's even more galling when you consider how they fritter and waste that tax money on imbecilic stupidity and utter mismanagement of the economy and in Spain's case pure greed and corruption.

They've caused this mess and now argue vociferously over who should get your hard earnt tax money to pay for it. I can't put into words how angry this makes me but such is the way of supposed democracies.

End of mini rant!


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## FedupwiththeUK (Feb 26, 2013)

zenkarma said:


> Hi Jonathan
> 
> Not sure what you mean by dual residency.
> 
> ...


Many thanks for the reply, 
I really do need expert advise on this as i have just been looking on google at the spanish tax system and this could have a real impact on my earnings living in spain. Currently i pay very little tax if any, not sure if im correct but financially i could be loosing around 10k to 12k. 

I didn't realise this, thankfully i have given myself a year or so to investigate the idea. Spain is certainly no tax haven. 

I would rent for the first 6 months but the property looks so tempting to purchase even if i decided to come back to the UK it would be a great holiday home at the current prices.

A friend of mine says that the spanish market could carry on falling for the next 6-12 months but as a long term investment he says it is great. He works as an investor and following our conversation he seemed to think that as long as im not looking to make any quick money and could afford to ride it out i will make a good investment before the end of my days especially if just used as a holiday apartment / villa. 

Obviously you guys have been hit hard but i cannot understand why people are leaving to go back to the UK, the value of the property doesn't matter in my own opinion if it is long term, it would obviously be a pain if wanting to sell up.

I feel sorry for the people living in spain on a basic UK pension as the exchange rate must have hit hard.

i really appreciate your comments about work and i wouldn't move to spain to try and make money, my business works ok in the UK and my intention would be to live of this mortgage free in spain but the more i read about tax the more i starting to think that long holidays seem a better idea. I will seek legal advise and let you know what i find. If the opportunity was there i would take it up but i wouldn't aim to be dependant on this due to the current climate.

regards 

Jonathan


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

FedupwiththeUK said:


> but i cannot understand why people are leaving to go back to the UK, the value of the property doesn't matter in my own opinion if it is long term, it would obviously be a pain if wanting to sell up.


Well, you may find out when you get here 

Not only are you taxed every which way they can, but now as a Spanish tax resident you have to declare in fine detail every single asset you have in the world that is valued in a group of €50k or more. That will include your bank account numbers, insurance policies, investments, and full Uk address details. Why are they going into such fine detail? Well it doesnt take much working out.

If you are unlucky enough to peg it then your estate will be subject to Spanish IHT, for which there are hardly any allowances and the rates can be very high, unless you happen to live in Valencia and a fe more areas in which case your spouse may get away with it

Youve got a lot to research


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## FedupwiththeUK (Feb 26, 2013)

*Dividends*

Just dug this out on the net.

Dividends
(1) Dividends derived from a company which is a resident of Spain by a 
resident of the United Kingdom may be taxed in the United Kingdom. Such 
dividends may also be taxed in Spain, and according to the laws of Spain, but 
where such dividends are beneficially owned by a resident of the United 
Kingdom the tax so charged shall not exceed: 
(a) 10 per cent of the gross amount of the dividends if the beneficial 
owner is a company which controls directly or indirectly at least 10 per 
cent of the voting power in the company paying the dividends; 
(b) In all other cases 15 per cent of the gross amount of the dividends. 
(2) Dividends derived from a company which is a resident of the United 
Kingdom by a resident of Spain may be taxed in Spain. Such dividends may 
also be taxed in the United Kingdom and according to the laws of the United 
Kingdom, but where such dividends are beneficially owned by a resident of 
Spain the tax so charged shall not exceed: 
(a) 10 per cent of the gross amount of the dividends if the beneficial 
owner is a company which controls directly or indirectly at least 10 per 
cent of the voting power in the company paying the dividends; 
(b) In all other cases 15 per cent of the gross amount of the dividends. 
(3) However, as long as an individual resident in the United Kingdom is 
entitled to a tax credit in respect of dividends paid by a company resident in the 
United Kingdom, the following provisions of this paragraph shall apply instead 
of the provisions of paragraph (2) of this Article; 
(a) 
(i) Dividends derived from a company which is a resident of the 
United Kingdom by a resident of Spain may be taxed in Spain. 
(ii) Where a resident of Spain is entitled to a tax credit in respect 
of such a dividend under sub-paragraph (b) of this paragraph, tax 
may also be charged in the United Kingdom and according to the 
laws of the United Kingdom, on the aggregate of the amount or value of that dividend and the amount of that tax credit at a rate 
not exceeding 15 per cent. 
(iii) Except as provided in sub-paragraph (a)(ii) of this paragraph, 
dividends derived from a company which is a resident of the 
United Kingdom and which are beneficially owned by a resident 
of Spain shall be exempt from any tax in the United Kingdom 
which is chargeable on dividends. 
(b) A resident of Spain who receives dividends from a company which 
is a resident of the United Kingdom shall, subject to the provisions of 
sub-paragraph (c) of this paragraph and provided he is the beneficial 
owner of the dividends, be entitled to the tax credit in respect thereof to 
which an individual resident in the United Kingdom would have been 
entitled had he received those dividends, and to the payment of any 
excess of such credit over his liability to United Kingdom tax. 
(c) The provisions of sub-paragraph (b) of this paragraph shall not apply 
where the beneficial owner of the dividends is a company which either 
alone or together with one or more associated companies controls 
directly or indirectly at least 10 per cent of the voting power in the 
company paying the dividends. For the purpose of this paragraph two 
companies shall be deemed to be associated if one controls directly or 
indirectly more than 50 per cent of the voting power in the other 
company, or a third company controls more than 50 per cent of the 
voting power in both of them. 
(4) The term "dividends" as used in this Article means income from shares, 
or other rights, not being debt-claims, participating in profits, as well as income 
from corporate rights assimilated to income from shares by the taxation law of 
the State of which the company making the distribution is a resident and also 
includes any other item (other than interest relieved from tax under the 
provisions of Article 11 of this Convention) which, under the law of the 
Contracting State of which the company paying the dividend is a resident, is 
treated as a dividend or distribution of a company. 
(5) The provisions of paragraph (1) or, as the case may be, paragraphs (2) 
and (3) of this Article, shall not apply where the resident of one of the 
Contracting States has in the other Contracting State a permanent establishment 
and the holding by virtue of which the dividends are paid is effectively 
connected with the business carried on through such permanent establishment. 
In such a case the provisions of Article 7 shall apply. 
(6) If the beneficial owner of a dividend being a resident of a Contracting 
State owns 10 per cent or more of the class of shares in respect of which the 
dividend is paid then paragraph (1) or, as the case may be, paragraphs (2) and 
(3), of this Article shall not apply to the dividend to the extent that it can have been paid only out of profits which the company paying the dividend earned or 
other income which it received in a period ending 12 months or more before 
the relevant date. For the purposes of this paragraph the term "relevant date" 
means the date on which the beneficial owner of the dividend became the 
owner of 10 per cent or more of the class of shares in question. 
Provided that this paragraph shall not apply if the beneficial owner of the 
dividend shows that the shares were acquired for bona fide commercial reasons 
and not primarily for the purposes of securing the benefit of this Article. 
(7) Where a company which is a resident of a Contracting State derives 
profits or income from the other Contracting State, that other State may not 
impose any tax on the dividends paid by the company and beneficially owned 
by persons who are not residents of the other State, or subject the company's 
undistributed profits to a tax on undistributed profits, even if the dividends paid 
or the undistributed profits consist wholly or partly of profits or income arising 
in that other State; provided that where a company which is a resident of a 
Contracting State has a permanent establishment in the other Contracting State 
it may be subjected therein to any withholding tax provided by the internal law 
of that other Contracting State but such tax shall not exceed 15 per cent of the 
distributed profits of the company attributable to the permanent establishment 
after payment of corporation tax on its profits.

Looks like the spanish tax law will hit in unless the beneficiary who is a permanent UK resident. 

My plans have been squished in all of about 2 hours, dam tax laws


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## FedupwiththeUK (Feb 26, 2013)

Stravinsky said:


> Well, you may find out when you get here
> 
> Not only are you taxed every which way they can, but now as a Spanish tax resident you have to declare in fine detail every single asset you have in the world that is valued in a group of €50k or more. That will include your bank account numbers, insurance policies, investments, and full Uk address details. Why are they going into such fine detail? Well it doesnt take much working out.
> 
> ...


I dont think i will be moving from what i have read, it seems suicide in my position to give so much tax away as i have over 25 years left before i can consider retirement - suppose i have just answered my own question about people my age living in spain.

Anybody know any nice places to rent in Jersey or guernsey


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## zenkarma (Feb 15, 2013)

FedupwiththeUK said:


> Obviously you guys have been hit hard but i cannot understand why people are leaving to go back to the UK, the value of the property doesn't matter in my own opinion if it is long term, it would obviously be a pain if wanting to sell up.


Well I personally haven't because my flat was bought long before the market hit its peak and then came back down again, so I've still got equity in mine and no mortgage on it. Even still it's probably halved in value since the crash, but that's half of nothing realised because it hasn't been sold  What I never had I won't miss!

Also, a lot of folks aren't going there at your age. You're still pretty young at 30. An awful lot of late 40's/late 50's just before retirement people sold up and went there and bought at the top of the market - they're the ones really suffering now.

Regarding the property market, who knows, it's a tough one to call. Some people think it's levelled out, some think it's going to fall further.

The SAREB Banco Malo (Bad Bank) that's been set up to take on all these repossessed and unsold properties is about to put some on the market at their December prices. I think that says a lot about their thinking - they don't want to push the market down any more. I'll put the link to the article at the bottom, it's an interesting read.

Personally, I think the prices have levelled out. If you can afford to buy one with cash and without a mortgage AND can afford the yearly running costs and taxes and are prepared to be patient and negotiate, and are in it for the long term 10+ years, now is as good a time as any in my opinion. 

I'd be looking to negotiate down the asking prices to factor in any potential future falls and buy it for the price I want to pay and that I think it's worth and ignore totally any historical value or any of the current silly asking prices. 

There's definitely bargains to be had if you're brave , have the cash and are prepared to be ruthless in negotiations.

! Murcia Today - Sareb Properties Have Re-entered The Market At Their Former Prices


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## zenkarma (Feb 15, 2013)

FedupwiththeUK said:


> My plans have been squished in all of about 2 hours, dam tax laws


Yep, sadly so. That taxman really bites you. 

My own plans took a beating when I looked at the intricacies of the tax situation and I really don't fancy allowing the Spanish hacienda to get his claws into my tax situation.

Don't give up yet, keep thinking on ways to get round it.

How about, 5 months renting in Spain, 5 months in France and 2 in England! 

No-one gets yer tax that way


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## FedupwiththeUK (Feb 26, 2013)

zenkarma said:


> Well I personally haven't because my flat was bought long before the market hit its peak and then came back down again, so I've still got equity in mine and no mortgage on it. Even still it's probably halved in value since the crash, but that's half of nothing realised because it hasn't been sold  What I never had I won't miss!
> 
> Also, a lot of folks aren't going there at your age. You're still pretty young at 30. An awful lot of late 40's/late 50's just before retirement people sold up and went there and bought at the top of the market - they're the ones really suffering now.
> 
> ...


I think nothing ventured nothing gained, it seems a great longterm investment but i really dislike the tax rules. 

would like to know if anyone can help, do the builders tend to build cavity walls on their properties or solid wall construction? I hear about how cold it gets but their doesn't seem an easy solution to upgrading the spanish housing stock. Last thing i want is a holiday home suffering from damp if left for long periods. 

regards


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## FedupwiththeUK (Feb 26, 2013)

zenkarma said:


> Yep, sadly so. That taxman really bites you.
> 
> My own plans took a beating when I looked at the intricacies of the tax situation and I really don't fancy allowing the Spanish hacienda to get his claws into my tax situation.
> 
> ...


Im thinking home owned by UK ltd company for business purposes.

Just got this from another site and im liking it alittle better than 5 minutes ago

"Hello ***,

I own a property in Spain via a UK Limited Company structure and will list some of the advantages that I have.

1. No personal non Resident Tax Declarations in Spain every December for owning the property in my own name but a Company Tax Declaration every January that is submitted to the Spanish Tax Authorities at Zero due to the European Treaties that Spain and the UK have between them.

2. I have removed Spanish Inheritance Taxes for my Beneficiaries as they will inherit the UK Company shares and not the property under Spanish Inheritance Tax Laws of the Central Tax office in Madrid as my Beneficiaries are not Resident of Spain so are not Taxed by the Regional Laws.

3. When I sell the UK Company there will be no 7% Purchase Tax in Spain to the buyer and no 3% Withholding Tax to my Company. If a buyer does not wish to purchase the Company then they can purchase the property out of the Company in the normal way. If the buyer purchases my UK Company then there is only a 0.5% UK Stamp Duty in the UK on the purchase value of UK shares.

4. Shares in a UK Private Limited Trading Company are exempt from IHT in the UK and Capital Gains Tax in the UK when you sell a Trading Company can be at only 10%."

A UK Limited Company has to have a CIF number to operate in Spain which is supplied by the Tax office in Spain.

The UK Company will request a Certificate of Residence from the Tax office (HMRC) in the UK demonstrating it is a Tax Resident Company of the UK.

Once a UK Company owns a property in Spain the Company has a legal obligation to submit a Zero Tax Declaration every January to the Tax office in Spain for the ownership of the property.

When the UK Company Tax Declaration is submitted to the Tax office in Spain, along with the Company UK Certificate of Resident then under the EU Treaty, Spain has to accept the Company is a non Resident Company of Spain and cannot Tax the UK Company.

The above is how every UK Company can operate in Spain and I do not see how at any stage you are hiding anything from the UK or Spanish Tax Authorities, quite the opposite I think, this is also part of the due diligence gwm will have to make sure the UK Company has been doing when gwm looks at purchasing the UK Company mentioned which owns the property in Spain.

In relation to a trading UK Company then I am not suggesting it will be for everyone but it is an additional advantage for those who wish to take advantage of it. I know of a lady and gentleman who own in Algorfa, Alicante, and when they bought their Spanish property into a UK Company structure they then setup a dog grooming business which operated through the same Company and when they submit their Company accounts to the Tax office in the UK they are classed as a trading Company, no problem here.

Good lawyer needed reagrdless


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## zenkarma (Feb 15, 2013)

FedupwiththeUK said:


> ...but i really dislike the tax rules


I don't like them either!

Which is why I've pretty much decided I won't be living there full time - they will simply take far too much tax, which in my opinion they're simply not entitled to.

You can stay there for up to 3 months without restriction. Up to 6 months if you register your income and health insurance and beyond that you're a tax resident.

The 6 months tax residency is cumulative by the way, it's not consecutive.

I doubt very much if Costa properties will have cavity walls, they're mostly sold walls because heats more of a problem than cold. But it would depend on the property type and year of build I'd imagine.


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## FedupwiththeUK (Feb 26, 2013)

zenkarma said:


> I don't like them either!
> 
> Which is why I've pretty much decided I won't be living there full time - they will simply take far too much tax, which in my opinion they're simply not entitled to.
> 
> ...


Non resident tax is also charged if im living in spain for a few months and earning money?? im must be tired and reading this wrong as it just doesnt make sense

"For non-residents only: Most non-residents are required to file income tax because they own a property (see article on Taxes for Property Owners), though you may also have to file because a Spanish company has paid you dividends, or because you worked for a few months during the year in Spain, etc."

"> anyone owning a property which is not rented out and does not produce an income is nevertheless deemed to have earned an "imputed income" from that property upon which tax is payable at 24,75%"

"In general non-payers can expect to have to pay the tax they owe plus interest and a "sancion" which can add 50% to 150% to the bill." 

sorry if this offends the people that live there but if im reading this right then the government is there to make it impossible to live or invest in spain. Im sure people arent aware of this as buying there seems bonkers.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

FedupwiththeUK said:


> Im thinking home owned by UK ltd company for business purposes.
> 
> Just got this from another site and im liking it alittle better than 5 minutes ago
> 
> ...


can you give us links to where you found these bits of info

apart from it being against forum rules to copy/paste without links, it would help to know the source & _when _things were written

the tax rules have changed literally in the past few weeks, and there is still some confusion 'on the street'


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## CapnBilly (Jun 7, 2011)

FedupwiththeUK said:


> Non resident tax is also charged if im living in spain for a few months and earning money?? im must be tired and reading this wrong as it just doesnt make sense
> 
> "For non-residents only: Most non-residents are required to file income tax because they own a property (see article on Taxes for Property Owners), though you may also have to file because a Spanish company has paid you dividends, or because you worked for a few months during the year in Spain, etc."
> 
> ...


No, you're just tired. It only applies if you buy a property, not if you rent, and it's not a large amount. It's based on the cadastral (rateable value). Mine is about €80,000 (probably about 1/3 of the price). It's the 1.1% of that, and then 24.75% tax, so about €220. I don't pay it because I am a resident.


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## codex70 (Jun 24, 2012)

Have you considered paying yourself a salary rather than dividends from the uk company? The company is taxed on profit, so although you pay little tax on your dividends the company will be paying tax on it's profit. If it pays you a higher salary it's profit will go down.

Obviously you would need to speak to an accountant as this is just speculation (and if you find out, let me know as I'm in a similar situation), but if I'm right, the net result wouldn't be as bad as the business paying corporation tax, then you paying full income tax on your dividend. You would still pay tax on the money you took out, but the company you own would pay less tax.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

FedupwiththeUK said:


> Anybody know any nice places to rent in Jersey or guernsey


Actually, I often wonder why some of the people who post don't just look for a better place in the UK. I'd be far less upheaval for them, their children and pets. They wouldn't have the language or strange customs to deal with and be able to understand the world around them. I'm sure Cornwall, the Scily isles etc would be a better call for some.
Not necessarily your case as I haven't read all of your posts so don't know enough about it, but just meant as a general comment...


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## XTreme (May 17, 2008)

FedupwiththeUK said:


> Hi all,
> 
> My story is im just simply fed up with the weather here in the UK (Wales),


Where you from?


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## FedupwiththeUK (Feb 26, 2013)

XTreme said:


> Where you from?


I'm from the bridgend area. 

Regards


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## FedupwiththeUK (Feb 26, 2013)

xabiachica said:


> can you give us links to where you found these bits of info
> 
> apart from it being against forum rules to copy/paste without links, it would help to know the source & _when _things were written
> 
> the tax rules have changed literally in the past few weeks, and there is still some confusion 'on the street'


I seem to be under different rules as I'm not allowed to add links, I did try this but I cannot post. If you copy my text and google it you should find my source. 

Regards


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

FedupwiththeUK said:


> I seem to be under different rules as I'm not allowed to add links, I did try this but I cannot post. If you copy my text and google it you should find my source.
> 
> Regards


you can add links as long as they aren't advertising a company or service you are connected with, or a competing forum - maybe you tried before the facility was activated for you (after 5 posts & a system update)


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## XTreme (May 17, 2008)

FedupwiththeUK said:


> I'm from the bridgend area.
> 
> Regards


Thank God you're not from Carediff! 

Regards,

A Jack!


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## zenkarma (Feb 15, 2013)

FedupwiththeUK said:


> Non resident tax is also charged if im living in spain for a few months and earning money?? im must be tired and reading this wrong as it just doesnt make sense


No it's not you, it's me being lazy in not explaining it properly and relating it mostly to my own situation.

You can live in Spain up to 3 months without restriction and without having to register. If you are unemployed and have an income from other sources you can live in Spain to to 6 months by proving your source of income and that you have health insurance but you have to register, but you won't be taxed on it. After 6 months (183 days) you become a tax resident and will be taxed on your worldwide income.


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## FedupwiththeUK (Feb 26, 2013)

zenkarma said:


> No it's not you, it's me being lazy in not explaining it properly and relating it mostly to my own situation.
> 
> You can live in Spain up to 3 months without restriction and without having to register. If you are unemployed and have an income from other sources you can live in Spain to to 6 months by proving your source of income and that you have health insurance but you have to register, but you won't be taxed on it. After 6 months (183 days) you become a tax resident and will be taxed on your worldwide income.


Might be a stupid question I'm going to ask but - can I get from France to Spain without border control via car? I'm sure I have driven before and never got asked for my passport or I.D?


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## FedupwiththeUK (Feb 26, 2013)

zenkarma said:


> No it's not you, it's me being lazy in not explaining it properly and relating it mostly to my own situation.
> 
> You can live in Spain up to 3 months without restriction and without having to register. If you are unemployed and have an income from other sources you can live in Spain to to 6 months by proving your source of income and that you have health insurance but you have to register, but you won't be taxed on it. After 6 months (183 days) you become a tax resident and will be taxed on your worldwide income.


How will they determine my tax on a owned property in spain that is my second home and therefor taxable? If its not making me money then I can see how I pay tax on a purchased property. I would be better of having a mortgage to offset on tax.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

FedupwiththeUK said:


> How will they determine my tax on a owned property in spain that is my second home and therefor taxable? If its not making me money then I can see how I pay tax on a purchased property. I would be better of having a mortgage to offset on tax.


you have to pay tax on all property owned in Spain - even if it stands empty 365 days a year - whether you are resident or not


it's worked out as a % of the value of the property (catastral value I believe)


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## zenkarma (Feb 15, 2013)

FedupwiththeUK said:


> How will they determine my tax on a owned property in spain that is my second home and therefor taxable?


They work it out as a % of the cadastral valor (rate-able value) as xabiachica rightly says.

They work on this basis: your second property in Spain _could_ be rented out, therefore we will tax you on the potential rent you're not receiving on it by _not_ renting it out!

That's the Spanish logic for you. If you rent it, we'll tax you, if you don't rent it, we'll tax you anyway


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## CapnBilly (Jun 7, 2011)

FedupwiththeUK said:


> How will they determine my tax on a owned property in spain that is my second home and therefor taxable? If its not making me money then I can see how I pay tax on a purchased property. I would be better of having a mortgage to offset on tax.



I posted a response to this earlier this morning, with detail about how its's calculated. There's no point in posting if people don't read them and ask the same question 3 hours later.


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

zenkarma said:


> They work it out as a % of the cadastral valor (rate-able value) as xabiachica rightly says.
> 
> They work on this basis: your second property in Spain _could_ be rented out, therefore we will tax you on the potential rent you're not receiving on it by _not_ renting it out!
> 
> That's the Spanish logic for you. If you rent it, we'll tax you, if you don't rent it, we'll tax you anyway


And then (as a non resident) when they have taxed you on the basis that you MIGHT have rented it out, they then proceed to tax you 25% on the rental you HAVE rented it out for!


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## Navas (Sep 2, 2012)

FedupwiththeUK said:


> Might be a stupid question I'm going to ask but - can I get from France to Spain without border control via car? I'm sure I have driven before and never got asked for my passport or I.D?


Yes you can. We have done frequently, but we always have passports with us. There are usually border guards around on some/all crossings and I have seen cars being stopped, unlike between France and Germany, where all you'll usually see is a sign telling you where you are.


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## FedupwiththeUK (Feb 26, 2013)

CapnBilly said:


> I posted a response to this earlier this morning, with detail about how its's calculated. There's no point in posting if people don't read them and ask the same question 3 hours later.


Hi CapnBilly, 
Thanks for your previous reply, i was more getting at the point of how they can do this if i have made no profit?

If i rent for 1 week for 300 will they just tax me on the 300 or is it set every year then this added on top?

i do appreciate your reply i just need to word my questions a little better.

regards 

Jonathan


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## FedupwiththeUK (Feb 26, 2013)

Navas said:


> Yes you can. We have done frequently, but we always have passports with us. There are usually border guards around on some/all crossings and I have seen cars being stopped, unlike between France and Germany, where all you'll usually see is a sign telling you where you are.


Thanks Navas, if this is the case then how would they know i have been in spains for the xxx amount of days? is this a legal requirement to declare it?


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

FedupwiththeUK said:


> Thanks Navas, if this is the case then how would they know i have been in spains for the xxx amount of days? is this a legal requirement to declare it?


if the tax man starts asking questions, the onus is on you to prove that you _haven't _been here, rather than for them to prove that you have...


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

FedupwiththeUK said:


> Thanks Navas, if this is the case then how would they know i have been in spains for the xxx amount of days? is this a legal requirement to declare it?



They have been known to ask people to prove where they've been. My husband used to commute and keep all his flight receipts and we had proof af an address in the UK, altho he wasnt ever asked - but then he was a visitor who worked and owned a UK company. You shouldnt lie, if you're planning to live in Spain then you must pay whats owed - simple. Spain is no longer able to fund folk who try evade tax. I dont mean that to sound unkind, but in the past, its been easy for folk to "hide under the radar" and look where its got the country. so now, they're tightening up at every turn.

Anyway, apart from that, I know nothing about the tax rules, So I'll shut up for now lol!!!

Jo xxx


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## zenkarma (Feb 15, 2013)

jojo said:


> Spain is no longer able to fund folk who try evade tax. I dont mean that to sound unkind, but in the past, its been easy for folk to "hide under the radar" and look where its got the country. so now, they're tightening up at every turn


Hmm.

I must take issue with this comment, even though I know you mean well.

They got where they are because Spain is an inherently corrupt country, its politicians are greedy and corrupt and its property developers were greedy and corrupt and built way too many properties, too quickly - they over saturated the market.

The banking collapse happened and banks are left holding billions in debts and worthless properties. That is not the fault of your average holiday home owning Brit expat - but they're having to pay anyway.

I see Bankia Madrid posted losses of €19.2 billion today.

Neither does your average Spaniard pay his taxes either. I'll hazard a wild guess and say 20-30% of the Spanish economy is 'black' money (money earnt with no taxes paid on it) they've always done this and they will continue to do this. Yet you don't see the hacienda clamping down on them do you? Nope, they'll always go after the easy targets.

That's why Spain is in the mess it's in, yet as always the hard working, honest tax paying person will be hit the hardest and the corrupt, cheating ones continue to get away with it.

Honest people don't mind paying taxes, they do mind when the hacienda does absolutely nothing about the 'black' money earners which ultimately means the honest ones have to pay even more to make up for it.


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## CapnBilly (Jun 7, 2011)

FedupwiththeUK said:


> Hi CapnBilly,
> Thanks for your previous reply, i was more getting at the point of how they can do this if i have made no profit?
> 
> If i rent for 1 week for 300 will they just tax me on the 300 or is it set every year then this added on top?
> ...


No, it's only payable if you buy a property, and then only if you're non-resident. If you become fiscally resident, I.e live here more than 183 days a year, or your family live here, then its not sable.here.

It was posted earlier that its called deemed income (I.e rent) that you coud receive, so it always payable if you own a property. If you do rent it out, then you have to pay tax on the income, although the allowances are very generous. You can offset expenses, mortgage interest etc, ( and I thin 3% deracination), and then tax on 40% of the balance.

If you rent, then your landlord will have to lay tax on the rent you pay, as. I described above.


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## FedupwiththeUK (Feb 26, 2013)

zenkarma said:


> Hmm.
> 
> I must take issue with this comment, even though I know you mean well.
> 
> ...


Seems to me that the Spanish tax man is not very honest. I don't mind paying my tax in the UK but it seems in Spain they are very greedy. Tax on property that generates no income is simply not tax. 

Surely tax on holiday homes is not spent on the owners as they are not there majority of the time and so do not use the services, a empty home incurs no tax that is justifiable. But Spain's rules will win so its like it or lump it i guess 

I suppose nothing is free in life and certainly not a life in the sun. 

Thanks for all your comments


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

zenkarma said:


> Hmm.
> 
> I must take issue with this comment, even though I know you mean well.
> 
> ...


 I know!! Spain is in the mess its in for a whole host of reasons, many its own doing without a doubt. But of course, when the chips are down, its the foreigners who take the blame and are the ones who will be scrutinised and caught!

Jo xxx


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## LolaH (Feb 27, 2013)

Hi, i was just reading your post and my mum lives out in Spain - has done for nearly 5 years now. She is a hair dresser and owns her own shop in Elviria, there isn't a huge market for it but she always said, no matter what happens in the world people will still want to look good, and what with the amount of Norwegians that can afford to fly over whenever they want you can make a killing of treatments and cuts because of the heat. 

I'm too young to want to go out there to live at the moment but knowing that it's a possibility even in the current economic state is still a nice relief if you will. 

In regards to your business, it can get cold in the winter months with all the tiled floors and no central heating, that could be a way forward for you especially with families over there with young children.

i too love the Northern Malaga region - quite lucky that my mum is still close enough to Malaga for the airport but further away near calahonda, cabo pino where there are a few english but mainly locals, germans and norwegians. 

Sending children to the english schools out there can be tricky, and far away - especially if your up in the mountain estates there. My brother goes to a spanish school and has soaked up the language so much that it may as well be his first language. 

the main thing for moving over is finding people you can trust, in every sense. People who won't see you as a "typical Inglés" as our overseas reputation proceeds us.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

LolaH said:


> Hi, i was just reading your post and my mum lives out in Spain - has done for nearly 5 years now. She is a hair dresser and owns her own shop in Elviria, there isn't a huge market for it but she always said, no matter what happens in the world people will still want to look good, and what with the amount of Norwegians that can afford to fly over whenever they want you can make a killing of treatments and cuts because of the heat.
> 
> I'm too young to want to go out there to live at the moment but knowing that it's a possibility even in the current economic state is still a nice relief if you will.
> 
> ...


Interesting what you say as it seems very "honest", I mean what you say about your mum's business. I'm sure she's seen a big difference in trade since she opened shop. She must have opened in 2008, just when the general public were beginning to realise that all was not well in the state of Spain. So the Norwegians are the one who keep the businesss going atm?
Also what you say about the tiled floors is true. People have written books about their cold houses on the forum!! I don't know whether people have got the money to change their flooring now though.
And spot on about the language and going to English schools.
So I'd like to ask you what you mean when you say
_I'm too young to want to go out there to live at the moment but knowing that it's a possibility even in the current economic state is still a nice relief if you will. _
Is it only people over a certain age who come to Spain? And is it really a viable possibility in the current economy, do you think?

Look forward to reading more of your posts. Perhaps your mum should be on here as she's the one who lives here!


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## LolaH (Feb 27, 2013)

Yes she has seen a huge difference, well, the norwegians are the ones that get their hair done every 2 weeks for wedding and "shindigs" - they seem to be the ones with higher connections to that kind of social life there one client pays for her taxi down to Benalmadena ... and that for a wash cut and style.

I think that with the flooring its because most people my mum being one live in a gated community so any kind of work done would have to be approved and would probably be wanted by all residents, thus a lot of money being needed to do the work on the community.

No not a certain age - i meant that my life is still here for now, i love Spain and other countries, but I know I'm not ready - I haven't made a substantial mark on london, That seems big-headed but when you've had to move from one of the busiest cities in the world to very rural kent, you crave the hustle and bussle and pollution(bad i know) - obviously the more mature adult would enjoy spain just as much as a small child or teenager on holiday, but for me I'm just not ready. 


I have told her to but unfortunately my mum is pretty much computer illiterate.... it took me 6 months to teach her to text...WITH SPACES!


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## FedupwiththeUK (Feb 26, 2013)

LolaH said:


> Hi, i was just reading your post and my mum lives out in Spain - has done for nearly 5 years now. She is a hair dresser and owns her own shop in Elviria, there isn't a huge market for it but she always said, no matter what happens in the world people will still want to look good, and what with the amount of Norwegians that can afford to fly over whenever they want you can make a killing of treatments and cuts because of the heat.
> 
> I'm too young to want to go out there to live at the moment but knowing that it's a possibility even in the current economic state is still a nice relief if you will.
> 
> ...



Many thanks for the reply.
You have what seems a very positive and planned outlook. Maybe one day we may pass on a sunny day in malaga.

lane:


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

LolaH said:


> Yes she has seen a huge difference, well, the norwegians are the ones that get their hair done every 2 weeks for wedding and "shindigs" - they seem to be the ones with higher connections to that kind of social life there one client pays for her taxi down to Benalmadena ... and that for a wash cut and style.
> 
> I think that with the flooring its because most people my mum being one live in a gated community so any kind of work done would have to be approved and would probably be wanted by all residents, thus a lot of money being needed to do the work on the community.
> 
> ...


Not sure I understand what you mean with the floors, but do understand what you mean about the city life versus rural. I'd hate to live in a city now, but did live in Madrid for a few years, which I loved at the time. 
Anyway, good to hear your views on things!


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## Sirtravelot (Jul 20, 2011)

Whoa, whoa. Whoa.

Let me get this straight.

So if you have an income coming from the UK, which is taxed in the UK, and you have been living in Spain for over 183 days, that income must be taxed again...?


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## Sirtravelot (Jul 20, 2011)

Sirtravelot said:


> Whoa, whoa. Whoa.
> 
> Let me get this straight.
> 
> So if you have an income coming from the UK, which is taxed in the UK, and you have been living in Spain for over 183 days, that income must be taxed again...?


And by income, I mean rental income.


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## CapnBilly (Jun 7, 2011)

Sirtravelot said:


> Whoa, whoa. Whoa.
> 
> Let me get this straight.
> 
> So if you have an income coming from the UK, which is taxed in the UK, and you have been living in Spain for over 183 days, that income must be taxed again...?


Rental income s only taxed once. If the property us in the UK it is is always taxable there. However, if you are fiscally resident in Spain, it is taxable there as well, but any tax already pad in the UK is offset. The allowances in Spain are more generous, so whether any more tax will be payable will depend upon your use of your personal tax allowances.


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## FedupwiththeUK (Feb 26, 2013)

CapnBilly said:


> The allowances in Spain are more generous, so whether any more tax will be payable will depend upon your use of your personal tax allowances.


Hi CapnBilly, 
I must be reading something wrong as i cannot figure out how spanish tax allowances are more generous than UK allowances. 

Please note i have not converted as i see no need the benefit is clear.

Allowance 
UK allowance £8,105 tax free allowance
Spain 5,151 euro tax free allowance (will increase a little with age)

Income Tax following allowances
Spain 0 - 17,700 euro is taxed at 24.75%
Spain 17,700 - 33,007 euro is taxed at 30%

UK 0 - 2,790 £ is taxed at 10%
UK 0 - 32,010 £ is taxed at 20%



Spain - 19% tax rate on savings income up to €6000
UK - Savings interest is automatically taxed at 20%. But if you’re on a low income, you may be able to get the interest tax-free or get half of the tax repaid.
Spain - Capital gains from investment funds are subject to a flat withholding tax of 19%
UK - capital gains tax 18% 

Spain - An annual real estate tax is payable to the local municipality. The tax is based upon a percentage of the cadastral value of the property. The value is adjusted every 8 years. The rate varies from 0.4% and 1.1% on urban properties and 0.3% and 0.9% on rural properties. Municipalities may, within certain limits, increase or decrease these rates. If there is a change in land title, a municipal tax (‘land appreciation tax’ or ‘Plus Valia’) is raised based upon the increase in value of the land since it was last sold. The rate is set by the Municipality and varies depending upon the cadastral value and the length of time since the preceding transfer. 

Expatriates who are non-resident in Spain for tax purposes may be advised to use offshore 
investments, including offshore life products, rather than domestic Spanish investments, to 
keep their assets outside of Spain to avoid creating Spanish-sourced investment income and to avoid future inheritance tax liabilities.

Am i missing something? :ranger:

Regards


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

FedupwiththeUK said:


> Hi CapnBilly,
> I must be reading something wrong as i cannot figure out how spanish tax allowances are more generous than UK allowances.
> 
> Please note i have not converted as i see no need the benefit is clear.
> ...


Yes 
Have a look at this

Notes on Spanish income tax. Spain income tax. Income tax returns Spain. Spanish income tax returns. Income tax Spain.


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## zenkarma (Feb 15, 2013)

Sirtravelot said:


> And by income, I mean rental income.


Yes.

It's considered worldwide income and as such (if you're a Spanish tax resident) it will be considered as taxable income, regardless that it's rental income from a property.

However, as Capnbilly rightly says, as you've already paid UK Income tax on it and as the UK has a double taxation treaty with Spain you will only need to pay the difference.

How much difference would be a complex calculation because it depends on what allowances you have, what your total income is and so on, but as a simple example:

If your rentable income is say £10,000 a year, you'd be allowed £8,105 personal allowance, which leaves £1, 895 to be taxed at 10% = £189.50 payable to the UK Inland Revenue.

That same £10,000 in euros (using a nominal let's say 1.10 exchange rate) would be €11,000 minus the spanish personal allowance of €5,151 leaves €5,849 to be taxed at 24.75%, which would be €1,447.

Now you've already paid £189.50 to the UK IR, which in euros would be €208.45, so that minus the Spanish tax would be €1,447 - €208.45 = €1238.55 due to the Spanish Hacienda.

This is a very simple example and does not take into consideration a whole plethora of personal allowances and so on, but it simply demonstrates the double tax treaty and how you can be liable for taxes in Spain even though you've paid them in the UK.


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## CapnBilly (Jun 7, 2011)

Sorry, i didn't make it clear. In the UK you can offset mortgage interest and expenses, and tax is payable on the balance. In Spain you can also offset a 3% depreciation, and then you are taxed on 40% of the net income ( it used to be 50%). This is much more generous than the UK. Obviously you then have your personal allowances as you posted.


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## CapnBilly (Jun 7, 2011)

CapnBilly said:


> Sorry, i didn't make it clear. In the UK you can offset mortgage interest and expenses, and tax is payable on the balance. In Spain you can also offset a 3% depreciation, and then you are taxed on 40% of the net income ( it used to be 50%). This is much more generous than the UK. Obviously you then have your personal allowances as you posted.


Sorry, forgot to add, the deprecation is on the cost of the property only, i.e it excludes the value of the land.


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## whatabout (Aug 19, 2014)

Stravinsky said:


> Yes
> Have a look at this
> 
> Notes on Spanish income tax. Spain income tax. Income tax returns Spain. Spanish income tax returns. Income tax Spain.



It's difficult to get ones head around a foreign tax system! We just returned from living in the USA where the personal tax free earnings allowances and tax rates were similar to the UK, but you got further allowances for children and also if spouse doesn't work you can claim an additional allowance for them. As only my OH worked and we had 1 child his tax amount was only 3% of his yearly salary whereas here in the UK he would have been paying around 18%.
EVERYONE - who owns property there has to get a US Tax ID number- doesn't matter if they're resident or not -and pay property tax, similar to in Spain. It equates to council tax here in the UK- ie based on the value of the property, except that in the US , like Spain, it's a percentage amount, and councils reassess property values every 3 years.
In the UK if you owned a property you still have to pay council tax even if you don't live in it, albeit at a reduced amount


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## extranjero (Nov 16, 2012)

What are the ages of your children? If you became resident in Spain, how would you get health cover ? What about schooling, wouldn't it be disruptive for the children?


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## Chopera (Apr 22, 2013)

The UK government plans to remove the tax allowance for non-UK residents. For those expats who rent out property in the UK this probably means they'll end up paying no tax in Spain on the rental income but more tax in the UK.

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/...-snatch-personal-allowance-living-abroad.html

Regarding Spanish tax on second homes in Spain, and Spanish property tax overall, it seems many Brits have a blind spot to the fact property tax in the UK on both primary residences and second homes is high as well, perhaps even higher. The difference is that it comes in the form of high council tax, which in Spain is much lower.


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## whatabout (Aug 19, 2014)

Stravinsky said:


> Yes
> Have a look at this
> 
> Notes on Spanish income tax. Spain income tax. Income tax returns Spain. Spanish income tax returns. Income tax Spain.


I looked at the tax site and had a few questions. 
Does everyone get the personal allowance of 5,151 (or slightly more if over 65) and then if you're an employee you get an additional allowance, or is it either or?
Is capital gains payable on property sales, even if it's the only property you own in any country?
The child allowances are for children up to what age and do they have to be living with you? Just wondering about a child in University in another country.
Thanks.


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## uniskinner (Aug 31, 2014)

Hi
Yes Us too nows the time to get out I think. we all have our reasons to leave. I want to go to Mursia area and feel I have many questions, I intend to go house hunting this Jan / Feb pick a few wanto have properties and then put mine on the market-my area and house will hopefully not take long to sell. A lecturer, and photographer my husbands a musician and supplied dance music to the thousands so he will slot in nicely with the expat communities. This is a great site and I have been trolling through to see if I get my questions answered as Im very knew to the site.. Hope all works out well for you in your move.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

uniskinner said:


> Hi
> Yes Us too nows the time to get out I think. we all have our reasons to leave. I want to go to Mursia area and feel I have many questions, I intend to go house hunting this Jan / Feb pick a few wanto have properties and then put mine on the market-my area and house will hopefully not take long to sell. A lecturer, and photographer my husbands a musician and supplied dance music to the thousands so he will slot in nicely with the expat communities. This is a great site and I have been trolling through to see if I get my questions answered as Im very knew to the site.. Hope all works out well for you in your move.



Welcome to the forum, maybe rent for a few months first to get a feel for the area, what you want and need. Yes, being a musician means he may well slot in once he finds where they play - he wont make any money, but then musicians do it for love dont they lol!!!

You will need to have proof of income and healthcare provision to register as residences, altho if you're pensionable age then you can use the S1 form for healthcare and your pension as proof of income. 

Jo xxx


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