# Moving from Australia to Marbella in June



## pauliebabes (Apr 13, 2011)

Hi everybody, we're about to move from Brisbane to Marbella and I was looking for advice on a few things. I plan to buy a bar which I know is as old as the hills and fraught with risk, however until the GFC I was successfully self-employed for about ten years and therefore reckon I'm pretty well prepared to jump into this minefield. My plan is to work as a bar man for about a year, continue researching until I know the market inside out, make contacts etc and then be ready for when the right opportunity comes along. My first question is this: does anybody know where I might get a bar job coming into high season (or will it just be a case of doing the legwork?)? Alternatively does anyone know of any bars/ pubs/ clubs that are struggling and where the owner might be open to employing me as a manager (or whatever) to work with them and help them turn their business around (my track record in this respect is very strong)? I know almost ALL such businesses are struggling but what I'm asking is does anybody have personal knowledge of somebody who might be interested in what I'm proposing? 

On the family front we have two kids, ages 5 and 8. They are currently in a state school here that we are very happy with (after initial reservations that proved to be unfounded). Having researched the whole schools thing we are planning to enrol them in a state school in Marbella (we have been taking Spanish lessons as a family once a week for the past six weeks). Can anybody recommend a good one? Where we live will be determined by the school. At the moment we live in the country and ideally we would like to do the same in Spain (renting initially). Somewhere quiet but near the town and of course near the school as well. So what I'm asking is does anybody know of a good state school in an area that I've described (not anywhere touristy but perhaps heading inland?). Furthermore is it cheaper to rent in town or, say, 10-15 minutes out of town in an area like I've described?

Regarding enrolment for the school, I've trawled the posts and done some research but I'm still a bit unclear how it works. If we need an address before we can enrol, and are then given the choice of state schools in that area, what if we don't like any of them? Surely it's possible to identify a school that you like, rent somewhere in that schools catchment and then try and get in there?

Any and all feedback is much appreciated.

Thanks,

Paul O' Connor


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

pauliebabes said:


> Hi everybody, we're about to move from Brisbane to Marbella and I was looking for advice on a few things. I plan to buy a bar which I know is as old as the hills and fraught with risk, however until the GFC I was successfully self-employed for about ten years and therefore reckon I'm pretty well prepared to jump into this minefield. My plan is to work as a bar man for about a year, continue researching until I know the market inside out, make contacts etc and then be ready for when the right opportunity comes along. My first question is this: does anybody know where I might get a bar job coming into high season (or will it just be a case of doing the legwork?)? Alternatively does anyone know of any bars/ pubs/ clubs that are struggling and where the owner might be open to employing me as a manager (or whatever) to work with them and help them turn their business around (my track record in this respect is very strong)? I know almost ALL such businesses are struggling but what I'm asking is does anybody have personal knowledge of somebody who might be interested in what I'm proposing?
> 
> On the family front we have two kids, ages 5 and 8. They are currently in a state school here that we are very happy with (after initial reservations that proved to be unfounded). Having researched the whole schools thing we are planning to enrol them in a state school in Marbella (we have been taking Spanish lessons as a family once a week for the past six weeks). Can anybody recommend a good one? Where we live will be determined by the school. At the moment we live in the country and ideally we would like to do the same in Spain (renting initially). Somewhere quiet but near the town and of course near the school as well. So what I'm asking is does anybody know of a good state school in an area that I've described (not anywhere touristy but perhaps heading inland?). Furthermore is it cheaper to rent in town or, say, 10-15 minutes out of town in an area like I've described?
> 
> ...


Come over for a visit and simply knock on doors to see what bar work is about. Very little I suspect, cos the schools are closing for the summer in the next couple of months here, so not only will you be up against school leavers, but also youngsters looking for holiday work. But the only way you can know is to come over and ask. Find out how bar owners are coping and get a feel for things. Altho I'm further east in Benalmadena, the bar owners I've spoken to cant afford to take any money out of their businesses for themselves, let alone employ someone. But that was just after a quiet winter and with the tourist season nearly here, maybe things will be easier for them????? Dont think just cos you have experience it will work for you. Even if you had experience in spain, it would be crazy to hope things will be ok. Ita not about the work, its about the rules, regulations (of which there are 100s) and the masses of competition

As for schools, well, its difficult again to know. They dont have league tables here, its very much down to word of mouth and reputation. So coming over and asking around, sitting outside of schools, looking at what the pupils are like (not in a perverted way lol!!)

Renting is cheaper inland, especially this time of year cos the coast tends to open itself for holiday makers and thats a lucrative business

WHATEVER YOU DO, DO NOT BURN BRIDGES - Bringing a family over here and hoping is crazy!! You need to seriously ask yourself what will you do WHEN the money runs out???

Jo xxx


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

pauliebabes said:


> Hi everybody, we're about to move from Brisbane to Marbella and I was looking for advice on a few things. I plan to buy a bar which I know is as old as the hills and fraught with risk, however until the GFC I was successfully self-employed for about ten years and therefore reckon I'm pretty well prepared to jump into this minefield. My plan is to work as a bar man for about a year, continue researching until I know the market inside out, make contacts etc and then be ready for when the right opportunity comes along. My first question is this: does anybody know where I might get a bar job coming into high season (or will it just be a case of doing the legwork?)? Alternatively does anyone know of any bars/ pubs/ clubs that are struggling and where the owner might be open to employing me as a manager (or whatever) to work with them and help them turn their business around (my track record in this respect is very strong)? I know almost ALL such businesses are struggling but what I'm asking is does anybody have personal knowledge of somebody who might be interested in what I'm proposing?
> 
> On the family front we have two kids, ages 5 and 8. They are currently in a state school here that we are very happy with (after initial reservations that proved to be unfounded). Having researched the whole schools thing we are planning to enrol them in a state school in Marbella (we have been taking Spanish lessons as a family once a week for the past six weeks). Can anybody recommend a good one? Where we live will be determined by the school. At the moment we live in the country and ideally we would like to do the same in Spain (renting initially). Somewhere quiet but near the town and of course near the school as well. So what I'm asking is does anybody know of a good state school in an area that I've described (not anywhere touristy but perhaps heading inland?). Furthermore is it cheaper to rent in town or, say, 10-15 minutes out of town in an area like I've described?
> 
> ...


you do realise the GFC is worse here than in Aus:confused2:

also, you'd have to pay for healthcare until you are employed/self-employed & paying into the system

there is also no state assistance unless you have paid into the system

do you have 50k in savings? - unless you do, I wouldn't do it

have a good read of the forum & you'll understand why we advise people against coming at the moment unless they are financially self-sufficient or have a guaranteed job to come to


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

It´s unlikely to be feasible for you to "pop over and have a look first" if you are in Brisbane, so you have to get this right before you move. I completely agree that you will need a substantial amount of money behind you just to survive, before you even start investing in a business. 

If you aren´t an EU citizen presumably it is even harder to work or start a business in Spain.

Why Marbella? Any particular reason? Sorry, don´t mean to be nosey!


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Alcalaina said:


> It´s unlikely to be feasible for you to "pop over and have a look first" if you are in Brisbane, so you have to get this right before you move.


Feasable or not - its a heck of a lot easier for one person to do that and know, than to move an entire family over lock, stock and barrel, without any safety net or knowledge!!!!

Jo xxx


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## pauliebabes (Apr 13, 2011)

*Thanks and a further question . . .*

Many thanks to everybody for your comments and advice. In answer to the questions:-

- I am an EU citizen (from Ireland) and have passive income which will support me (along with the bar work) until I'm set up in the new business. As to 'Why Marbella', I have been coming to Spain for 35 years and Marbella is my favourite place (although being honest I can't think of any parts that I don't like).

- Yes I know how bad the GFC is in Spain. But one day it will end (just like the boom did) and then the opportunities won't be as good. I do have at least 50k in savings but will be keeping that aside as capital for the new business.

If anybody can help me further with the questions I had on state schools I'd much appreciate it.

Thanks again.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

pauliebabes said:


> Many thanks to everybody for your comments and advice. In answer to the questions:-
> 
> - I am an EU citizen (from Ireland) and have passive income which will support me (along with the bar work) until I'm set up in the new business. As to 'Why Marbella', I have been coming to Spain for 35 years and Marbella is my favourite place (although being honest I can't think of any parts that I don't like).
> 
> ...


To be sensible you need to listen to ALL advise, read everything you can, everywhere you can and not dismiss it cos its not what you want to hear. "Knowledge is king" and moving to Spain with your entire family is a huge step - whether you're an EU citizen or not, that just means you dont have to worry about a visa or permit, there are no other benefits. There is 0ver 20% unemployment, there are a flood of school leavers about to hit the job market making that figure much higher and many of them will be wanting bar work and of course most of them will be Spanish/bilingual. You'll also be up against family, friends of bar owners, cos Spain is very much who you know, not what. Once you get here, then maybe look at buying a bar - you'll be more informed and have more understanding of how the system works here. Watch out for dodgy agents, dodgy reasons for selling up, dodgy accounts and dodgy "rent-a-crowds", desperate times means desperate people! And lets not forget that the rules and regulations for running a bar in Spain are a mystery to even the most experienced bar owner. The recession here and the financial state of Spain probably isnt going to pick up for a good few years, Spain is still fighting back the need for an EU bail out, as has just happened in Portugal, Greece and Ireland

But (I'll now try to be positive), you may be lucky and find a bit of bar work if you speak Spanish fluently and have the experience. I hope you do, Spain is a harsh country if you have little or no money and its no longer a cheap place to live - altho I dont know how it compares to Oz. Marbella is known to be an expensive area. There are some telesales jobs on the coast for english speakers if you dont speak spanish, altho the basic pay isnt good, the commission can make a difference and enough to supplement your income. Some even offer contracts which means that you'll then be eligible for healthcare here.

As for schools, well once you've arrived here, have all your paperwork in place - NIE, Residencia and padron, you need to go to the local townhall/Ayuntamiento and find out which school you will be allocated. Unfortunately the schools close mid June for the summer so you may not get to see them "in action". But that said, when you look for a property ( unless you have one here already??) its probably best to use an agent, they should know which schools are best and where to live accordingly. I dont think there are many on the forum who live in that area with children.

Jo xxx


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## Seb* (Mar 22, 2009)

pauliebabes said:


> Many thanks to everybody for your comments and advice. In answer to the questions:-
> 
> - I am an EU citizen (from Ireland) and have passive income which will support me (along with the bar work)


What makes you so sure you will actually get bar work? I wouldn't count on getting a job - any job. You might get a lucky break, but don't take it for granted! There are thousands of foreigners on the costas looking for bar work - every year. It's generally badly paid and a lot of it is done without contracts / social security. Make sure you can support your family with your passive income, otherwise i see you using up your reserves very quickly. Health insurance alone shouldn´t be underestimated, especially with a family and kids. You have no right to full health cover until you actively paid into the system (see above concerning bar work). So take into consideration that you would need private cover for a while, now add up rent, utilities, food, car/transport and costs for school. Don't underestimate the costs


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## pauliebabes (Apr 13, 2011)

I have two further questions:

1) Are you saying Jojo that you don't have any say on which school you want your kids to go to- that you are just allocated one? Also if enrolment is typically in May then what happens if you arrive in August, or even later? How long does it take to process the paperwork (typically)?

2) My wife currently minds children for working mums that are stretched for time. This is not in a formal 'childcare centre' way- all she does is pick the kids up after school, look after them at home for 2-3 hours and then the parents collect them. Can anyway advise me if this service would be in demand in Spain (I mean taking into account things like the siesta culture and also what % of mums work)?

Thanks.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

pauliebabes said:


> I have two further questions:
> 
> 1) Are you saying Jojo that you don't have any say on which school you want your kids to go to- that you are just allocated one? Also if enrolment is typically in May then what happens if you arrive in August, or even later? How long does it take to process the paperwork (typically)?
> 
> ...


You, in most areas are officially allocated a school, dependant on where you live and spaces. If you arrive after the enrolement date, then they should have left some places back tfor latecomers. As for childcare in Spain. The spanish generally use their family to help with the children, altho siesta does mean that many people arent at work for school pick up time - usually around 2pm, so thats not a problem. All the state schools that my daughter went to had after school clubs, where they would be given a drink, a snack and help with homework, language. It generally finished about 6pm and and it was free. But all areas are different.

As for working mums - not as many as in the UK - I dont know about oz, but Spain doesnt really operate in quite the same way. As I've pointed out there is mass unemployment here and the benefit system is completely different. So therefore to have two parents working is pretty rare - theres usually someone around to pick the kids up, As I say, the extended family usually chip in too!

I'm not sure what permissions she'll need for child minding - if any, but you would need to ask at the town hall/Ayuntamiento. If your wife isnt fluent in Spanish/other languages then she's limiting herself to the few british speaking children in the school, which I doubt would work! However, if you're coming over in June, it'll be the summer holidays and she could possibly seek out other british mums who may be able to use her services????

The paperwork?? To get into a school thats just a matter of filling in the forms they give you and having passport sized photos of your children. The other paperwork NIE,Residencia and padron HHHMMMMM Have a look at this post, you may have to skim through some of the nonsense - the answer is its unnecessarily complicated and can take a few weeks http://www.expatforum.com/expats/sp...esidency-certificates-nie-numbers-padr-n.html

Jo xxx


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## Guest (Apr 14, 2011)

Do you know Dalli's place in central Marbella? If so then he's not there any more and I know the owner of the building and the replacement restaurant (The Cellars) is looking for someone to take it over but not sure if restaurants are your thing or not really?

There is bar work, quite a lot now especially, and Nikki Beach are doing a big recruitment push too so worth asking around everywhere


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## pauliebabes (Apr 13, 2011)

ShinyAndy said:


> Do you know Dalli's place in central Marbella? If so then he's not there any more and I know the owner of the building and the replacement restaurant (The Cellars) is looking for someone to take it over but not sure if restaurants are your thing or not really?
> 
> There is bar work, quite a lot now especially, and Nikki Beach are doing a big recruitment push too so worth asking around everywhere


Thanks for the info mate, but I'm not looking to go into the restaurant business. I'm going to stick to bars. It's encouraging what you said about the bar work. I'm now thinking I might head over for a while myself to scope things out before uprooting the family.


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## pauliebabes (Apr 13, 2011)

Thanks Jojo that's very helpful!


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

pauliebabes said:


> Thanks for the info mate, but I'm not looking to go into the restaurant business. I'm going to stick to bars. It's encouraging what you said about the bar work. I'm now thinking I might head over for a while myself to scope things out before uprooting the family.


I know that wont be easy from Oz, but that is the most sensible thing to do! You never know, you might be lucky, in which case you can tell us we're a miserable bunch of ***** LOL 

Jo xxx


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## pauliebabes (Apr 13, 2011)

Ha ha thanks Jo! I'll keep you posted. I'm now planning on travelling over for a month from around the 10th of May.


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## pauliebabes (Apr 13, 2011)

*Crime*

Pardon me if this question seems a little cliched or whatever, but I've heard various things over the years about crime/ Russian mafia etc on the Costa Del Sol including Marbella. Now that I'm planning to move my family there from the relative tranquility of Australias Sunshine Coast, can anybody tell me if these things are noticeable in general or if it's overblown (ie:- by the media which most things are)? I'm talking about it in two ways: one, is Marbella and the surrounding area a nice place to raise a family without that kind of thing existing in the background and two, as a future business owner should I be concerned about the criminal element (having said that I previously owned carwashes and heard many stories before I got into the business of owners needing rottweilers and armed guards with shotguns when they were doing their banking, but apart from a few late night break-ins I never experienced anything like that)?


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

pauliebabes said:


> Pardon me if this question seems a little cliched or whatever, but I've heard various things over the years about crime/ Russian mafia etc on the Costa Del Sol including Marbella. Now that I'm planning to move my family there from the relative tranquility of Australias Sunshine Coast, can anybody tell me if these things are noticeable in general or if it's overblown (ie:- by the media which most things are)? I'm talking about it in two ways: one, is Marbella and the surrounding area a nice place to raise a family without that kind of thing existing in the background and two, as a future business owner should I be concerned about the criminal element (having said that I previously owned carwashes and heard many stories before I got into the business of owners needing rottweilers and armed guards with shotguns when they were doing their banking, but apart from a few late night break-ins I never experienced anything like that)?


IMO its overblown by the media, but if you move in the sort of circles that mean that you "rub shoulders"??? then yes, there is a bit of a mafia type thing going on apparently. there is the occasional report of shootings, stabbing, trouble etc on the local radio. But I'm sure thats the case in most cosmopolitan towns and cities.

The one thing that surprises me is the number of humble "pool cleaners" on the costa del sol, who live in huge villas with flash cars, attractive women, rotweillers, wired fences.....

Jo xxx


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

pauliebabes said:


> Pardon me if this question seems a little cliched or whatever, but I've heard various things over the years about crime/ Russian mafia etc on the Costa Del Sol including Marbella. Now that I'm planning to move my family there from the relative tranquility of Australias Sunshine Coast, can anybody tell me if these things are noticeable in general or if it's overblown (ie:- by the media which most things are)? I'm talking about it in two ways: one, is Marbella and the surrounding area a nice place to raise a family without that kind of thing existing in the background and two, as a future business owner should I be concerned about the criminal element (having said that I previously owned carwashes and heard many stories before I got into the business of owners needing rottweilers and armed guards with shotguns when they were doing their banking, but apart from a few late night break-ins I never experienced anything like that)?


They are undoubtedly there. Every so often we read of arrests of Italian and Russian mafia bosses in the local press. But they are mainly there for money-laundering and drug running I think, rather than protection rackets for small businesses.

Three Italian Mafia members arrested in Marbella and Almería

Naples mafia boss arrested in Marbella. Surinenglish.com

Another mafia head goes down in Marbella | SpanishNews.es


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

jojo said:


> IMO its overblown by the media, but if you move in the sort of circles that mean that you "rub shoulders"??? then yes, there is a bit of a mafia type thing going on apparently. there is the occasional report of shootings, stabbing, trouble etc on the local radio. But I'm sure thats the case in most cosmopolitan towns and cities.
> 
> The one thing that surprises me is the number of humble "pool cleaners" on the costa del sol, who live in huge villas with flash cars, attractive women, rotweillers, wired fences.....
> 
> Jo xxx


Perhaps "I'll clean your pool" is a code for "I'll launder your drug money"!


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## mayotom (Nov 8, 2008)

pauliebabes said:


> Pardon me if this question seems a little cliched or whatever, but I've heard various things over the years about crime/ Russian mafia etc on the Costa Del Sol including Marbella. Now that I'm planning to move my family there from the relative tranquility of Australias Sunshine Coast, can anybody tell me if these things are noticeable in general or if it's overblown (ie:- by the media which most things are)? I'm talking about it in two ways: one, is Marbella and the surrounding area a nice place to raise a family without that kind of thing existing in the background and two, as a future business owner should I be concerned about the criminal element (having said that I previously owned carwashes and heard many stories before I got into the business of owners needing rottweilers and armed guards with shotguns when they were doing their banking, but apart from a few late night break-ins I never experienced anything like that)?


Paul, The Russians are not too bad, the problem groups are the French, Columbian, British and some of our own who moved out to the area after the clamp down on them after the Veronica Gueirn Murder. That said its not really an issue, they keep it among themselves, most of their business is in their home countries and they live here for the same reasons as the rest of us, but trouble has a habit of catching up with them.

So as for your family, if you don't involve yourself with the lowlifes then its not a problem.
For the business, if you are worried about protection rackets etc, its not a problem, in most areas as far as I know.

Overall there is crime, but no different than anywhere else in the world...

Good luck with the move, I'll be back in Marbella again from the start of May


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## pauliebabes (Apr 13, 2011)

Thanks again everybody, that's very helpful!

As I mentioned in my original post we currently live in the 'country'- actually what's called the 'Sunshine Coast Hinterland' north of Brisbane. We're up in the mountains with a nice view to the coast and have the kids in a great state school in the local village only five minutes away. We love the quiet here combined with the option to liven things up by heading to the coast which is only thirty minutes away by car. Although we're still attracted to the idea of living in Marbella Town for various reasons, I've done a bit of research on the surrounding area- towns like Ojen, Istan etc- and it looks very nice. I would love to hear anyones general opinions on living in places like these with respect to schooling, property cost, quality of life, plusses, minuses- anything basically!


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

pauliebabes said:


> Thanks again everybody, that's very helpful!
> 
> As I mentioned in my original post we currently live in the 'country'- actually what's called the 'Sunshine Coast Hinterland' north of Brisbane. We're up in the mountains with a nice view to the coast and have the kids in a great state school in the local village only five minutes away. We love the quiet here combined with the option to liven things up by heading to the coast which is only thirty minutes away by car. Although we're still attracted to the idea of living in Marbella Town for various reasons, I've done a bit of research on the surrounding area- towns like Ojen, Istan etc- and it looks very nice. I would love to hear anyones general opinions on living in places like these with respect to schooling, property cost, quality of life, plusses, minuses- anything basically!


Well, I live in a small inland town in Cadiz province, and I wouldn´t live anywhere else! Our money goes a lot further here - in 2005 we bought a large detached village house for less than the price of a 1-bed apartment on the coast. The local people are friendly and welcoming, partly because we are bringing money into the town but mainly because that´s they way they are. Low crime rate, good fresh food, beautiful environment, it ticks all our boxes.

I have an English friend with three small children in the local state school, they are doing fine and are completely bilingual.

Once a week we get in the car and drive 50 km to the coast or a city - combining a day out with a visit to a shopping centre to get anything we can´t get in the village.

The only thing I miss is the variety of live music venues we had when we lived in Oxford. Much as I love flamenco you can have too much of a good thing and there is not much else here.


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## pauliebabes (Apr 13, 2011)

Alcalaina said:


> Well, I live in a small inland town in Cadiz province, and I wouldn´t live anywhere else! Our money goes a lot further here - in 2005 we bought a large detached village house for less than the price of a 1-bed apartment on the coast. The local people are friendly and welcoming, partly because we are bringing money into the town but mainly because that´s they way they are. Low crime rate, good fresh food, beautiful environment, it ticks all our boxes.
> 
> I have an English friend with three small children in the local state school, they are doing fine and are completely bilingual.
> 
> ...


Thanks a lot thats very helpful!


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