# Activist Startup CEO seeks advice on Moving to Chiapas



## SmarterWays2Organize (Apr 19, 2015)

I'd be very grateful for advice from anyone with experience as an expat re moving to Chiapas. What I have to offer: (Hope this is not too long)
1) over 7 years as CEO and chief psychologist of social venture consumer Internet startup experience (now in beta working on raising one more seed round to achieve we hiope hugely successful pivot) experience; I made most of the most common mistakes a startup CEO can make, so would make great mentor (but only for do-good startups.)

2) many years as high donor fundraiser for deep progressive social justice and anti war causes (googLable with many refs), films, campaigns, etc willing to donate help in exchange for friendship and networking help if you or nonprofit director friend cannot afford a development (fundraising director)
3) Many years experience as successful national awardwinning investigative doc filmmaker and author
4) Besides my passion for inventing smarter ways to build a movement and succeed (Gandhi and King meet modern technology) my current startup's passion is to help couples succeed who cannot afford therapists or have mates unwilling to try them and for therapists to be more productive and have more efficient sessions.

MY QUESTIONS:
1) if willing to share a house, how much is monthly rent, to be near center of San Cristobal
2) if wanting to fly to Belize for occasional snorkeling and scuba, how much is ow or rt flites? (would love intro to Belize expats too)
3) how can I connect with any progressive programmers or web/mobile app designers
4) what are greatest disadvantages of living in SCdeLasCasas (I am pretty fluent in Spanish btw, and my startup was funded by Startup Chile. I was also one of the finalists in the International Startup Festival).
5) Cheapest airlines (normally ) for flying to Chiapas from Oakland,CA or Sacramento
6) Dos and don'ts advice on finding a woman mate (probably early 50s) with strong activist soul, who's not after me for a greencard. (I was one of the few American volunteers to help Unidad under Allende. Two of my exposes of the Reagan regime won First Place in the American Film festival and later in the National Film and Video Festival. Martin Sheen is a close friend and narrated two of my films.)


----------



## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

SmarterWays2Organize said:


> gners
> 
> 6) Dos and don'ts advice on finding a woman mate (probably early 50s) with strong activist soul, who's not after me for a greencard.


Look for a congenial expat female, preferably one from the States, someone who wouldn't be looking for a green card.


----------



## chicois8 (Aug 8, 2009)

Your 18 days too late for April Fool's Day........


----------



## GARYJ65 (Feb 9, 2013)

Is this post real?
Seems too silly to me


----------



## Longford (May 25, 2012)

SmarterWays2Organize: Why have you chosen las Casas as the spot to relocate to? Do you have much, or any experience traveling in the state or prior contact with existing NGOs and charitable organizations which operate in Chiapas? "Locals", the indigenous peoples in Chiapas, and just about any other "local" Mexican national in the state are/is likely to cast a wary eye your way if you don't already have someone local with whom to work. If you haven't already thought of it, investigating affiliating with an existing international NGO might identify the type of opportunity you're looking for. What about meeting the requirements to be issued a residency visa? Have you check to see if you do or can meet those requirements? It might be a bit tougher, take longer, to obtain a residency visa if you tell INM that you're an "activist" even if you do meet the financial threshold. Of course, if you're independently wealthy, there are those in the government and in various communities in the state, I have no doubt, who will cooperate in the thinning of your wallet. Best of luck with your due diligence.


----------



## AlanMexicali (Jun 1, 2011)

Longford said:


> It might be a bit tougher, take longer, to obtain a residency visa if you tell INM that you're an "activist" even if you do meet the financial threshold.


Google Translation:

"CHAPTER III

Foreigners:

(Amended first paragraph by decree published on June 10, 2011)

Article 33. Foreigners are those who do not possess the qualifications specified in Article 30 of the Constitution and enjoy human rights and guarantees recognized by this Constitution.

(Added by decree published on June 10, 2011)

The Executive of the Union, after a hearing, may expel the country to foreign persons on the basis of the law which regulates the administrative procedure as well as the location and duration of the detention.

Foreigners may not in any way interfere in the political affairs of the country."

(2014) Constitución Política de los Estados Unidos Mexicanos - 7 de julio de 2014 | Tribunal Electoral del Poder Judicial de la Federación

According to the Mexican Constitution they would be breaking the law and could be deported.


----------



## Longford (May 25, 2012)

AlanMexicali said:


> Foreigners may not in any way interfere in the political affairs of the country."
> 
> (2014) Constitución Política de los Estados Unidos Mexicanos - 7 de julio de 2014 | Tribunal Electoral del Poder Judicial de la Federación
> 
> According to the Mexican Constitution they would be breaking the law and could be deported.


You cite a provision of the Constitution which is not uniformly enforced, IMO. Chiapas has seen many foreigners involved in political activities, most notable those who showed-up to support Sub-Comandante Marcos and his band of merry men/women of EZLN. And then there were the foreigners who were involved with terrorist activities in Oaxaca a decade or so ago (the violent protests of "teachers" and life-long "students"). I think a foreigner has to either really piss-off someone in the government or become publicly identified as being involved in a protest or movement ... in order for that provision of the Constitution to be invoked.


----------



## GARYJ65 (Feb 9, 2013)

Longford said:


> You cite a provision of the Constitution which is not uniformly enforced, IMO. Chiapas has seen many foreigners involved in political activities, most notable those who showed-up to support Sub-Comandante Marcos and his band of merry men/women of EZLN. And then there were the foreigners who were involved with terrorist activities in Oaxaca a decade or so ago (the violent protests of "teachers" and life-long "students"). I think a foreigner has to either really piss-off someone in the government or become publicly identified as being involved in a protest or movement ... in order for that provision of the Constitution to be invoked.


And yet, sometimes it is invoked. Good luck that we have it


----------



## sparks (Jun 17, 2007)

Silly and naive


----------



## Parcos (May 13, 2014)

San Cristobal de las Casas is filled with expats working for or running NGOs. You shouldn't have any problems networking and making connections if you are friendly and outgoing. Your skills and the value of those skills to the community and various organizations will determine your project's success. Houses near the center of San Cristobal that are to US standard, and have garden space run around 6000 pesos a month. Small basic houses closer to 3000 pesos a month. Single rooms can be rented for as low as 2000 pesos a month. I have a friend living in San Cristobal who runs her own project and she has a lovely colonial home with garden, parking, and two big bedrooms for 7000 pesos. 

As for airline prices, check an online travel service. As for going to Belize to scuba, The flight from Tuxtla takes you through Mexico City. Far more efficient is to take the direct flight on Viva Aerobus from Tuxtla to Cancun and then enjoy the diving all along the coast including Playa del Carmen and the various islands. A beautiful destination and easy and cheap to get to.


----------



## Parcos (May 13, 2014)

I mention expats working or and running NGOs in my post but to be clear, there are many Mexicans doing the same thing. My friend who runs a project in San Cristobal is in fact Mexican. She does have strong ties to funding sources in the United States.


----------



## GARYJ65 (Feb 9, 2013)

Parcos said:


> San Cristobal de las Casas is filled with expats working for or running NGOs. You shouldn't have any problems networking and making connections if you are friendly and outgoing. Your skills and the value of those skills to the community and various organizations will determine your project's success. Houses near the center of San Cristobal that are to US standard, and have garden space run around 6000 pesos a month. Small basic houses closer to 3000 pesos a month. Single rooms can be rented for as low as 2000 pesos a month. I have a friend living in San Cristobal who runs her own project and she has a lovely colonial home with garden, parking, and two big bedrooms for 7000 pesos.
> 
> As for airline prices, check an online travel service. As for going to Belize to scuba, The flight from Tuxtla takes you through Mexico City. Far more efficient is to take the direct flight on Viva Aerobus from Tuxtla to Cancun and then enjoy the diving all along the coast including Playa del Carmen and the various islands. A beautiful destination and easy and cheap to get to.


US Standards?
Which are?


----------



## Parcos (May 13, 2014)

GARYJ65 said:


> US Standards?
> Which are?


US standards would include construction that would generally pass inspection (electrical, plumbing, heating/cooling,) in the United States. For instance fully grounded electrical system with properly installed circuit breaker box, with the appropriate number of items drawing electricity per circuit. When we bought our first house, the electrical system was not to this standard and was unsafe. We had the house completely rewired to a standard that would pass inspection in the United States. Houses in Mexico that are built over time by a maestro without the direction of a competent architect and skilled builder are generally not built to US standards. Of course not all houses are well built in the United States so I am referring to houses in the US that are built legally in compliance with local codes and inspected by certified inspectors.


----------



## GARYJ65 (Feb 9, 2013)

Parcos said:


> US standards would include construction that would generally pass inspection (electrical, plumbing, heating/cooling,) in the United States. For instance fully grounded electrical system with properly installed circuit breaker box, with the appropriate number of items drawing electricity per circuit. When we bought our first house, the electrical system was not to this standard and was unsafe. We had the house completely rewired to a standard that would pass inspection in the United States. Houses in Mexico that are built over time by a maestro without the direction of a competent architect and skilled builder are generally not built to US standards. Of course not all houses are well built in the United States so I am referring to houses in the US that are built legally in compliance with local codes and inspected by certified inspectors.


I really doubt that houses in Chiapas would meet US standards or even have the electrical system plans. This applies to plumbing as well as any of the other systems.
As you say, US standards are not followed 100% in the US, and some are not the best ones in the world, besides, houses in Mexico are built with different materials and will withstand different conditions. Maestros de obra are nothing but older albañiles. People hire them because they are cheap. But they build badly


----------



## Parcos (May 13, 2014)

GARYJ65 said:


> I really doubt that houses in Chiapas would meet US standards or even have the electrical system plans. This applies to plumbing as well as any of the other systems.
> As you say, US standards are not followed 100% in the US, and some are not the best ones in the world, besides, houses in Mexico are built with different materials and will withstand different conditions. Maestros de obra are nothing but older albañiles. People hire them because they are cheap. But they build badly



I generally agree with everything you say. I used "US standards" as a general reference point. However I have been in houses in San Cristobal built by both Mexican and expat architects and very gifted local builders that for all intensive purposes just about meet the quality mark. My original point was these sorts of houses rent for quite a bit more than what we (my friends and wife's family) call maestro built houses. If I for instance told me wife's parents (they are Mexican) that I had bought a house built to Mexican standards, they would ask their daughter to move back home with them until I made the necessary improvements.


----------



## Meritorious-MasoMenos (Apr 17, 2014)

Parcos said:


> I generally agree with everything you say. I used "US standards" as a general reference point. However I have been in houses in San Cristobal built by both Mexican and expat architects and very gifted local builders that for all intensive purposes just about meet the quality mark. My original point was these sorts of houses rent for quite a bit more than what we (my friends and wife's family) call maestro built houses. If I for instance told me wife's parents (they are Mexican) that I had bought a house built to Mexican standards, they would ask their daughter to move back home with them until I made the necessary improvements.


I understand and agree with your point. I think there is a better way of putting it than "Mexican standards," however. As you say, your Mexican in-laws have very different standards. Mexico City current building standards for example, are quite strict, esp in quake standards, but that is for standard office and residential construction in "modern" areas. What's built in outlying districts might conform to your "Mexican standards."


----------



## lagoloo (Apr 12, 2011)

I personally know a person who became involved in supporting sub-commander Marcos' Zapatista movement. She was escorted to a plane heading back to the U.S. and lost her property in Mexico.

However, those who enjoy hobbies like bungee jumping from tall places may find this just their cuppa.


----------



## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

lagoloo said:


> I personally know a person who became involved in supporting sub-commander Marcos' Zapatista movement. She was escorted to a plane heading back to the U.S. and lost her property in Mexico.


 Not surprised in the least to hear what happened to this person. If you're bound and determined to work with anti-government groups in Mexico, at least pick without such a high profile!


----------



## chicois8 (Aug 8, 2009)

I would think that after 24 hours without a reply from 
the OP his first and probably last thread would die a quiet death...

Please don't feed the TROLLS..........


----------



## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

chicois8 said:


> I would think that after 24 hours without a reply from
> the OP his first and probably last thread would die a quiet death...
> 
> Please don't feed the TROLLS..........


Let's give the OP another day to respond to our comments. If we don't hear from him by then, I'll close the thread.


----------



## Longford (May 25, 2012)

chicois8 said:


> I would think that after 24 hours without a reply from
> the OP his first and probably last thread would die a quiet death...
> 
> Please don't feed the TROLLS..........


Just because someone doesn't return to respond to a post in a period of a day doesn't mean the person is a troll or is trolling. Rather than call for shutting down a discussion why not just ignore the discussion thread and move-on to another. If there is no interest in the topic the discussion will stop by itself. However, judging by the commentary thus far ... there's considerable interest in the topic ... which has drawn some troll-like responses. So, who amongst us is the troll here?


----------



## GARYJ65 (Feb 9, 2013)

Parcos said:


> I generally agree with everything you say. I used "US standards" as a general reference point. However I have been in houses in San Cristobal built by both Mexican and expat architects and very gifted local builders that for all intensive purposes just about meet the quality mark. My original point was these sorts of houses rent for quite a bit more than what we (my friends and wife's family) call maestro built houses. If I for instance told me wife's parents (they are Mexican) that I had bought a house built to Mexican standards, they would ask their daughter to move back home with them until I made the necessary improvements.


Do your in-laws think that bad about their own Country?
In Mexico we have all kinds of constructions, of course most of them are self constructed, or by hiring albañiles or maestros de obra (older albañiles) 
If you would say to me that you bought a Mexican standard house, I would congratulate you, perhaps later I would ask you...which standards?


----------



## Parcos (May 13, 2014)

GARYJ65 said:


> Do your in-laws think that bad about their own Country?
> In Mexico we have all kinds of constructions, of course most of them are self constructed, or by hiring albañiles or maestros de obra (older albañiles)
> If you would say to me that you bought a Mexican standard house, I would congratulate you, perhaps later I would ask you...which standards?


I'm glad you feel the way you do. But my family generally considers standards of service in Mexico to not be equal to those they receive in the United States. They generally choose to do their shopping for clothes, technology, etc in the US because the service and quality is so superior to what we find here and at much cheaper prices. When my father-in-law required open heart surgery, he had the procedure in Houston because he felt he would receive better care there than here. Many Mexican people are in constant dismay at the contemptuous service they receive from businesses here such as Telmex, CFE, and even major retailers. Maybe you disagree, but most Mexican I know and associate with are very frustrated by many of the conditions that exist in Mexico. And consequently do not equate "made in Mexico" with a mark of quality.


----------



## GARYJ65 (Feb 9, 2013)

Parcos said:


> I'm glad you feel the way you do. But my family generally considers standards of service in Mexico to not be equal to those they receive in the United States. They generally choose to do their shopping for clothes, technology, etc in the US because the service and quality is so superior to what we find here and at much cheaper prices. When my father-in-law required open heart surgery, he had the procedure in Houston because he felt he would receive better care there than here. Many Mexican people are in constant dismay at the contemptuous service they receive from businesses here such as Telmex, CFE, and even major retailers. Maybe you disagree, but most Mexican I know and associate with are very frustrated by many of the conditions that exist in Mexico. And consequently do not equate "made in Mexico" with a mark of quality.


First of all, it would be useful to define Quality
I know what you mean; Malinchismo is a very common and shameful thing here
If people are looking for better things, they should really look for better things
Go to Japan, Germany, for technology for instance
All they know is the US
Feel sorry for them


----------



## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

Parcos said:


> I'm glad you feel the way you do. But my family generally considers standards of service in Mexico to not be equal to those they receive in the United States. They generally choose to do their shopping for clothes, technology, etc in the US because the service and quality is so superior to what we find here and at much cheaper prices. When my father-in-law required open heart surgery, he had the procedure in Houston because he felt he would receive better care there than here. Many Mexican people are in constant dismay at the contemptuous service they receive from businesses here such as Telmex, CFE, and even major retailers. Maybe you disagree, but most Mexican I know and associate with are very frustrated by many of the conditions that exist in Mexico. And consequently do not equate "made in Mexico" with a mark of quality.


How fortunate that your "malinchista" in-laws are wealthy enough to be able fly off to the States to do their shopping and get health care. God forbid they should patronize businesses and hospitals in their own country!


----------



## vantexan (Sep 4, 2011)

Wasn't there a survey a few years ago that indicated that the majority of Mexicans would move to the U.S. if they could? Not surprising then that some native Mexicans might feel they can get better in the U.S. than Mexico. And rich Americans aren't settling for schlock either. If you have the money you can find quality anything in the U.S., even if it originated in Europe. I know, I live here.


----------



## GARYJ65 (Feb 9, 2013)

vantexan said:


> Wasn't there a survey a few years ago that indicated that the majority of Mexicans would move to the U.S. if they could? Not surprising then that some native Mexicans might feel they can get better in the U.S. than Mexico. And rich Americans aren't settling for schlock either. If you have the money you can find quality anything in the U.S., even if it originated in Europe. I know, I live here.


I'd like to see that survey, sounds silly to me.
Most Mexicans stay in Mexico, some go to the US, most of them have a terrible time, and become something else, not Mexicans, not Americans.
Stupid idea that they can get better things there, one can get good things anywhere

Personally, I do not like the " American way of life" means nothing to me, is it true for african descents? Mexican immigrants? "Whites"? Do they really really live well? As far as I have seen, most people don't live a nice life, some, the wealthier and most educated ones, they have a blast


----------



## wonderphil (Sep 7, 2013)

GARYJ65 said:


> First of all, it would be useful to define Quality
> I know what you mean; Malinchismo is a very common and shameful thing here
> If people are looking for better things, they should really look for better things
> Go to Japan, Germany, for technology for instance
> ...


Don't feel sorry for them Gary for that maybe they have a somewhat closed mind but so do you have a closed mind by your response. Yes Japan Germany and others do have some good technology and Mexico will have it too and it probably has it already, so if that is so, please keep an open mind and do not be so Mexican nationalistic. The fact is that the US has some of the best technology and is superior in various respects to all others should not be in dispute and is not in dispute by by experts, except maybe for people who have their head in the sand or are just in denial so some unknown reason. That is my opinion anyway.


----------



## vantexan (Sep 4, 2011)

GARYJ65 said:


> I'd like to see that survey, sounds silly to me.
> Most Mexicans stay in Mexico, some go to the US, most of them have a terrible time, and become something else, not Mexicans, not Americans.
> Stupid idea that they can get better things there, one can get good things anywhere
> 
> Personally, I do not like the " American way of life" means nothing to me, is it true for african descents? Mexican immigrants? "Whites"? Do they really really live well? As far as I have seen, most people don't live a nice life, some, the wealthier and most educated ones, they have a blast


I had a stent put in an artery back in 2011. The doctor who did it had a national rep as well as the hospital, Mother Francis of Tyler, TX. I can hear your snort from here but while living there the King of Saudi Arabia flew in regular to be treated by their spinal medicine clinic. America has it's problems, just like much of the world. I'm not saying it's the best thing going. But the reality is that millions of Mexicans have moved there in search of something better, not the other way around. Give the devil it's due.


----------



## Longford (May 25, 2012)

NGOs. Chiapas. Funding organizations. Etc.

:focus: ?


----------



## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

There is not a whole lot to discuss...there are lots of NGO´s in San Cristóbal way more than anywhere I have been in Mexico, lots of Human Rights workers and all types of lawyers and activists, most of the one I know are Mexicans and have a few foreigners involved that I know of but I stay away from any organization down there so I would not be the right person to ask.

San Cristóbal seems the place to go for people in search of a goal in life, they come for a short time and tend to leave so it is a fluid crowd.
There are furnished places around town, most of them run down and not that many nice places to rent. There are a few but not many and they tend to be expensive when located in the historical center. 
There are some places with gardens in some of the barrios around the center but not many in comparaison to places with paved patios.
Most of the houses I looked at when I was renting were run down. 
The weather is not the greatest and humidity in the houses can be a problema . the road between Tuxtla and San Cristóbal is a kamikaze hwy outside of that life is nice there.


----------



## chicois8 (Aug 8, 2009)

I repete:




chicois8 said:


> I would think that after 168 hours without a reply from
> the OP his first and probably last thread would die a quiet death...
> 
> Please don't feed the TROLLS..........


----------



## Pastel de nata (Dec 9, 2014)

Wow, people really shot down the OP. And then this pointless detour about defining 'standards'?? 
I'd say that for a socially conscious person looking for social enterprise/NGO work in a pleasant location, San Cristóbal is a good fit. There are not many salaried positions though (and the 'crisis' is eating up those there are), so the fundraising skills would come in handy. 
The NGOs are not organised or listed anywhere and have their share of in-fighting etc as you'd expect, but there's a nice 'can-do' vibe. Just remember to show maximum respect and empowering attitudes towards the 'beneficiaries'. 
As for life companions, the town is home to several foreign right-on women in that age bracket who might well be looking for a partner rather than the papers. Good luck!


----------



## Hound Dog (Jan 18, 2009)

_


Pastel de nata said:



Wow, people really shot down the OP. And then this pointless detour about defining 'standards'?? 
I'd say that for a socially conscious person looking for social enterprise/NGO work in a pleasant location, San Cristóbal is a good fit. There are not many salaried positions though (and the 'crisis' is eating up those there are), so the fundraising skills would come in handy. 
The NGOs are not organised or listed anywhere and have their share of in-fighting etc as you'd expect, but there's a nice 'can-do' vibe. Just remember to show maximum respect and empowering attitudes towards the 'beneficiaries'. 
As for life companions, the town is home to several foreign right-on women in that age bracket who might well be looking for a partner rather than the papers. Good luck!

Click to expand...

_We have resided in San Cristóbal de Las Casas a few months every year for eight years and own a home there. The rest of each year we reside in Ajijic, Jalisco on Lake Chapala. We have both noted that, over the years, people, especially those prone to engage in shallow social causes, come and go with some regularity. The climate there at 2,000 meters is a bit rough with heavy rains and cold, clammy months of foggy overcast. Most people leave there a few months after arriving if they can. The "beneficiaries" upon whom you wish to lay their benefits are not as dumb as they thing they are and can see through phonies from miles away. Locals have been blatantly lied to by foreign hypocrites for over 400 years. Expect skepticism.


----------



## ojosazules11 (Nov 3, 2013)

SmarterWays2Organize said:


> Pastel_
> Million thanks. You are the first and only to provide a helpful answer. How can i reach you directly. The admin for this forum seems to have the habit of confusing my giving my email (disguised in same way one does on twitter to avoid bots) as "promotion" or advertizing. Alas. So I dare not try again to give you mine. So how can i reach you directly to give you my email to give to ngo directors there who could use some help(probono) in fundraising for deep social jutstice or envt causes. And I am also wondering about finding partners skilled in programming or at least web or mobile ap design (to do mockups,which makes it easier to recruit an engineer). I have an incredible game changer app laid out on paper, but not mocked up well enough to attract competent coder.--gary
> p.s. and might you know cheapest flites from San Cristobal (SC?) or nearby city (Tuxtla?) to Belize or San Pedro Sula or La Ceiba (the two Honduran towns closest to great diving in Roatan); since from my research bus and train take forever


You need to make a total of 5 posts to have access to the private messaging (PM) feature of the forum. Pastel de nata already has 11 so if you just do 3 more posts, you'll be able to communicate with each other via PM. The posts don't need to be long or full of meaning - just write something brief in each one.

Not allowing personal email addresses in public posts is meant to protect the poster, I believe.


----------



## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

your research tells you train take for ever?? Which train pray tell would you be taking from Chiapas to Belize?The only one I know of is in Arriaga and i is called the Bestia , not exactly a train to go diving in Belize..
The airport in San Cristobal is non existent. It was used a few times 10 years ago and closed, another white elephant . 
Tuxtla is the only airport of any size around and there are not direct flight to Belize. You need to fgo to Mexico city to go to Belize. You can always bus it but it is a long way away.
Went to Honduras last a couple of years ago via Palenque Betel Flores Rio Dulce and so on but that is a long way away. Chiapas is not the place to go to if you want to hop to Belize.


----------



## Hound Dog (Jan 18, 2009)

_...[might you know cheapest flites from San Cristobal (SC?) or nearby city (Tuxtla?) to Belize or San Pedro Sula or La Ceiba (the two Honduran towns closest to great diving in Roatan); since from my research bus and train take forever[/QUOTE]_

There are no flights into San Cristóbal de Las Casas as the airport there shut down years ago. There are no passenger trains into Chiapas nor just about anywhere in Mexico. Roatan Island in Honduras isn´t even remotely close to chiapás. San Pedro Sula, Honduras is a cesspool of violence - reputedly the most dangerous town in the Americas. Any more cogent advice?


----------



## SmarterWays2Organize (Apr 19, 2015)

citlali said:


> your research tells you train take for ever?? Which train pray tell would you be taking from Chiapas to Belize?The only one I know of is in Arriaga and i is called the Bestia , not exactly a train to go diving in Belize..
> The airport in San Cristobal is non existent. It was used a few times 10 years ago and closed, another white elephant .
> Tuxtla is the only airport of any size around and there are not direct flight to Belize. You need to fgo to Mexico city to go to Belize. You can always bus it but it is a long way away.
> Went to Honduras last a couple of years ago via Palenque Betel Flores Rio Dulce and so on but that is a long way away. Chiapas is not the place to go to if you want to hop to Belize.


thanks much for that info. Discouraging, but helpful.--gary


----------



## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

One thing I did not check was the flights out of Palenque. They opened an "international" airport last year and started with Mexico city Palenque flights but I think the intend was to have flights into Guatemala maybe Chetumal and Honduras so may want to check if they came up with more flights out of there.

When I was in Livingston Guatemala and the Rio Dulce area there were tons of colectivos and boats going to Belize and San Pedro Sula so you may want to check how to get in that area via plane from Guatemala City, Chetumal I guess would be another choice but I have not checked any of the small airports..as I never had any need to get there.
Palenque is 5 hours from San Cristobal so no matter what it is not a short trip timewise. Distance wise it is less then 200 km..


----------



## Cristobal (Nov 25, 2014)

citlali said:


> One thing I did not check was the flights out of Palenque. They opened an "international" airport last year and started with Mexico city Palenque flights but I think the intend was to have flights into Guatemala maybe Chetumal and Honduras so may want to check if they came up with more flights out of there.
> 
> When I was in Livingston Guatemala and the Rio Dulce area there were tons of colectivos and boats going to Belize and San Pedro Sula so you may want to check how to get in that area via plane from Guatemala City, Chetumal I guess would be another choice but I have not checked any of the small airports..as I never had any need to get there.
> Palenque is 5 hours from San Cristobal so no matter what it is not a short trip timewise. Distance wise it is less then 200 km..


And it can be a brutal 5 hours due to the enormous amount of bone jarring _topes_ along the highway. In all honesty, I doubt there is a stretch of highway more than 5 km without a series of speed bumps.


----------



## Pastel de nata (Dec 9, 2014)

*Best go there*

Hello there! Correspondence with me won't get very far I'm afraid. I don't personally know many NGO directors, nor coders, although there are some in SC for sure. The only way to find a solid outfit to work with would be to go to San Cristóbal, spend some time, go to events and listen to people, set up meetings. As with any NGO-saturated place, it's difficult to sort the wheat from the chaff in looking for partners. 
As Hound Dog says, it's also not easy to find a 'good cause' and 'beneficiaries'. It's easy to underestimate the level of anti-outsider sentiment (for good reason) in Chiapas. A lot of the discourse is really radical, thoroughly committed to peoples' own solutions and autonomy, to the extent of rejecting the state school system (again, for good reason) and universities (no matter how sympathetic, because of being funded by the state). So working on the terms of (some indigenous) Chiapanecans means accepting their way of doing things, which might be too radical for a lot of outsiders. - Of course there are different politics in the head of each individual, and there's a plethora of different organisations and projects, but among a bunch of prominent civil society organisations that's the deal. 
- If you're really serious about finding coders while remaining outside San Cristóbal, you can pay to advertise in Agenda San Cristobal, .com. 
Good luck!


----------



## Hound Dog (Jan 18, 2009)

[_QUOTE=Cristobal;7036290]And it can be a brutal 5 hours due to the enormous amount of bone jarring topes along the highway. In all honesty, I doubt there is a stretch of highway more than 5 km without a series of speed bumps.[/QUOTE]_


But, an extraordinarily beautiful highway crossing a mgnificent countryside for some 200 kilometers. The last I counted, there were some 300 topes between San Cristobal and Palenque. What happens in anarchic Chiapas State is that various indigenous communities along highway routes through their lands, construct random topes along those highways and the reason for that is that drivers from various other parts of Mexico do not respect locals who typically walk along the highways there. Stangers drive through these towns and villages at top speed with no respect shown locals except for those mostly unmarked topes which are constructed in such as way that they become unpredictable and can actually seriously damage one´s car. That´s not the most serious problem. however, because if you run over and hurt or kill one of their villagers, especially a child, they will kill you immediately in a most rudimentary fand unpleasant fasihon. 

Those unmarked or poorly marked topés serve a serious purpose.


----------



## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

Yes it can be a brutal 5 hours and sometimes some villagers are pissed off about one thing or another and they block the roads so you have to go back and wait a day or more and try again..


----------



## Cristobal (Nov 25, 2014)

citlali said:


> Yes it can be a brutal 5 hours and sometimes some villagers are pissed off about one thing or another and they block the roads so you have to go back and wait a day or more and try again..


Unless you are a passenger on a tour originating in San Cristóbal and are on your way back to said city after touring Palenque. Then you're just screwed. Unless you are willing to walk around the bloqueo and hopefully catch a colectivo heading to SC. A task too daunting for many if not most tourists.


----------



## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

Sometimes you can pay sometimes you can walk around but many times you are sheer out of luck..It has happened to me many times on various roads and that is part of the fun of living in that area. The last time the bloqueo was on the road beween Villahermosa and San Andres San Cristobal and the blqueo lasted 5 days . It was 5 minutes before we got El Laurel and we had to go back to Villa Hermosa, spend the night there and it hadded 7 hours to our trip...


----------



## Hound Dog (Jan 18, 2009)

[_QUOTE=citlali;7039874]Sometimes you can pay sometimes you can walk around but many times you are sheer out of luck..It has happened to me many times on various roads and that is part of the fun of living in that area. The last time the bloqueo was on the road beween Villahermosa and San Andres San Cristobal and the blqueo lasted 5 days . It was 5 minutes before we got El Laurel and we had to go back to Villa Hermosa, spend the night there and it hadded 7 hours to our trip...[/QUOTE]_

Take what Citlali writes quite seriously. On the rather lengthy road from Villahermosa to San Cristóbal de Las Casas, the roadblock near Ocosingo was a heavy affair surrounded by villagers with formidable canes threatening us and all others passing by and when we told the somewhat billigerent locals blocking the main highway that we were residents of San Cristóbal and simply wanted to be granted access to continue our drive home, a distance that would take us another two hours or so, they inforrmed us that if they let us through the roadblock, we might be seriously assaulted further down the road so we turned around and proceeded back to Villahermosa and then took an allternate route back to San Cristóbal. When we inquired of the men manning the roadblock as to how long the main highways was going to be closed, they responded, "Who knows. Perhaps a couple of hours, perhaps several days or more." The drive back to Villahermosa was arduous but it beat severe injury or death for a cause meant to save a few hoiurs of driving time to get home. By the way, that alternativee route through the Chiapas Highlands was quite beautiful. The local indigenous folks have been mistreated for over 400 years since the Spanish invasión and tend to become pissed rather easily. Indigenous law prevails there and the state of Chiapas won´t go near it. It is not a good idea to cross them.


----------



## Hound Dog (Jan 18, 2009)

By the way; if you read my posting just preceding ths one, please don´t get me wrong. Chiapas is a great state in which to live. We have lived in Mexico for 15 years and have owned a home in San Cristóbal for eight of those years. A fine place in which to reside. There is some turmoil there as there is in most interesting places but our lives there have been quite peaceful. Chiapas is one of the most beautiful places in Mexico. If you haven´t been there - go. You will not regret that decisión.


----------



## Cristobal (Nov 25, 2014)

Hound Dog said:


> By the way; if you read my posting just preceding ths one, please don´t get me wrong. Chiapas is a great state in which to live. We have lived in Mexico for 15 years and have owned a home in San Cristóbal for eight of those years. A fine place in which to reside. There is some turmoil there as there is in most interesting places but our lives there have been quite peaceful. Chiapas is one of the most beautiful places in Mexico. If you haven´t been there - go. You will not regret that decisión.



Recently returned to Chiapas after a nearly 40 year absence. My wife had been wanting to go for some time and we finally got around to it. On the surface there are many very noticeable changes, some positive and some negative. The biggest negative being the loss of the forest. Even though I mentioned the innumerable _topes_ on the trip between SC and Palenque, the roads in general (as in the rest of the country) have greatly improved. 

San Cristobal has been gentrified. The place is overrun with tourists. The American hippies of the 70s have been largely supplanted by their peers from Italy and Argentina. Back then you would have been hard pressed to find much in the way of international cuisine. Now it seems there are more places (talking solely of el centro here) serving pizza than Mexican. And there was a very noticeable lack of taco stands/carts and mobile food vendors. I think we counted 3 esquites vendors. Maybe in other parts of the city they thrive but we didn't notice much along the center's streets.

Good coffee was easily found and very inexpensive. Didn't see one Starbucks (another positive) and if it ever decides to locate their I'll wager it will fail. The Burger King on the andador didn't appear to do much business. We were told there is no McDonalds in the city.

Not as many beggars as there were years ago. The governor got married in SC, a purposely low key affair. Bribed a large group of indigenous women in traditional garb into posing for "one with the people" foto ops.

Did I mention the lack of taco stands? I was jonesing for a good taco before we left. Overall we give a big thumbs down to the restaurant fare especially those serving traditional chiapaneca fare. Tortillas can't compare to those found in Jalisco. But that is based on a limited sample size. 


The mirimba in the zocalo was delightful. There were some good street musicians. People don't seem to pick up the dog **** their chuchos deposit on the andador. Plenty of tourist police walking their beat. Never felt unsafe walking back to the hotel at night. Overall it is a very pleasant place to spend some time.

The trip to Palenque was of course, well worth putting up with the topes. The temples are impressive and so is the jungle. Agua Azul is lovely but brought to mind a mini Xochilmilco. The trip down the Cañon del Sumidero was very worthwhile. Who can't enjoy seeing spider monkeys and crocodiles in the wild? 

Also very much worth seeing is the church in San Juan Chamula. Their is a vibe inside that you will be hard pressed to find anywhere in the world. 

So yes, for those who have never been, take Hound Dog's recommendation and visit Chiapas.


----------



## SmarterWays2Organize (Apr 19, 2015)

*thank you and what I am seeking*

Thank you hound dog. My main need, however, as stated in my post that started this thread is to find contacts there with whom i might have something in common, eg. fellow social justice or envtl activists, social venture startup entrepreneurs,therapists (couple and family), from USA or Europe. I believe I have to reply several more times before I am allowed to give or to receive your email (to do a private msg). Yes? Or must i do several more posts that start new threads? Otherwise I can tell you how to find my email. Please let me know, since I imagine you do in fact have several contacts there.
--gary


----------



## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

When you get to San Cristobal you can join Los Amigos de San Cristobal.They support several causes and you probably will fin d people who can help you meet other people. I believe they have an internet site.


----------



## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

SmarterWays2Organize said:


> Thank you hound dog. My main need, however, as stated in my post that started this thread is to find contacts there with whom i might have something in common, eg. fellow social justice or envtl activists, social venture startup entrepreneurs,therapists (couple and family), from USA or Europe. I believe I have to reply several more times before I am allowed to give or to receive your email (to do a private msg). Yes? Or must i do several more posts that start new threads? Otherwise I can tell you how to find my email. Please let me know, since I imagine you do in fact have several contacts there.
> --gary


After five posts, you will have access to the Private Message system. It doesn't matter whether the posts start a new thread or contribute to an old one.


----------



## Hound Dog (Jan 18, 2009)

This has been an enjoyable exchange of thoughts, Cristóbal. When we decided to retire to Mexico (after considering locations in New Mexico, Coastal Alabama and some parts of France), we narrowed our search down to Guadalajara, Lake Chapala, Merida (too hot and humid), Puerto Vallarta, Cuernavaca and Oaxaca City (unaffordable in the historic center) among a few other places. We chose Western Ajijic, Jalisco on the shores of Lake Chapala because of that city´s wonderful year-round climate and the fact that, in the Western Ajijic área, there were endless kilometers of deserted beaches where we could run our huge mutts (one Neopolitan and two Bourdeaux) off leash every day without inconveniencing anyone and they could pretend to chase the beautiful birds that congregate on the shore of the lake ( without ever actually catching one) and, as it happened, that turned out to be a good decisión. A few years later we chose to spend about half of each year in San Cristóbal de Las Casas in the Chiapas Highlands. Actually, we, at the time, planned to sell our home in Ajijic and move full time to enticing Chiapas but the real estate market at Lake Chapala went to hell at that time so selling the home at Lake Chapala became an unfavorable option. As it turns out, the summer rainy season in Highland Chiapas at 2000 meters altitude makes it a cold and unpleasant place seasonally speaking subject to some serious inundations while the summer rainy season along the lakeshore is a very pleasant time of year so, what the hell, let it ride. Winter dry seasons in Chiapas and summer wet seasons at Lake Chapala. That beats San Francisco fog where we lived for some 40 years.

San Cristóbal was not one of our chosen places to live despite the fact that in the historic center it is a charming town which we discovered as we drove back to Lake Chapala from impossibly hotand humid Merida and points east along the Gulf and south along the Quintana Roo Caribbean shore so we passed through San Cristóbal on our way back to Lake Chapala and were charmed by that small city (about 150,000 people) and decided we wanted to settle there at least part of eacjh year. 

The municipalty of San Cristóbal is a very different place than the municipality of Chapala (of which the delegation of Ajijic is a part) and I would guess that some 50% of the population in San Cristóbal is indigenous Maya whereas a large part of the population in Chapala consists of U.S. and Canadian expat retirees. These are oversimplications of both communities but I don´t have the time or inclination to attempt to be more informative on the subject of ethnic influences in either community. It takes years of living in either plce to begin to understand them even superficially but both places are nice places to settle just seriously different in charácter. To each his own.


----------



## Cristobal (Nov 25, 2014)

As I said in my other post, Hound Dog, all things considered, SC is a pleasant place to spend time. Curiously enough, my wife, who has spent her entire life residing in the state of Jalisco, asked as we walked the andador if I would consider living in SC. Unfortunately the seasons don't line up for us as we now live on the coast of Jalisco and the period of uncomfortable weather here coincides with the rainy season there and we are well aware of the problems presented by flooding in SC. 

But I would choose SC over Ajijic in a heart beat regardless of the inconveniences of the climate. I find the culture in SC far more interesting and as far as foreigners go, much prefer the young hippies and their alternative lifestyle to that of intensely boring old farts in Chapala.


----------



## Hound Dog (Jan 18, 2009)

. But I would choose SC over Ajijic in a heart beat regardless of the inconveniences of the climate. I find the culture in SC far more interesting and as far as foreigners go, much prefer the young hippies and their alternative lifestyle to that of intensely boring old farts in Chapala.[/QUOTE][/I]

You hit the nail of the head, Cristóbal. The culture in San Cristóbal is far more interesting than the "...intensely boring old farts...." culture around the North shore of Lake Chapala . I don´t wish to push that thought too far as, at 73, I´m an old goober myself. 

Back when I was a national bank examiner living high in the Mayacamas Mountains between Santa Rosa and St. Helena, California, I was occasionally assigned to work banks in retirement zones around Sonoma and Napa Counties and those old farts would always be occupying the lobbies of those bank branches in the morning to indulge in free coffee and doughnuts while yapping with other old goobers. The conversations often went to subjects of where one old b*tthole had travelled versus another goober and there would be this competition over whether travels to Malta or Tanzania carried more status so, at age 35 or so, I swore I would never retire to an enclave of geezers but, by God, I ended up in Ajijic anyway which is a community overrun by Midwestern and Canadian end-of-the-liners. God´s waiting room. I had to move part time to the Chiapas Highlands just to interrelate with people who still had 30 or more years to go on the planet if their luck holds out. 

When we first arrived here in early 2001, there was this elderly lady who drove a pink Cadillac convertable around town with "MARY KAY" license plates so she must have been a hell of a salesperson. She has since joined her ancestors in the hereafter as will we all. Too bad; I really liked that Cadillac.


----------



## lagoloo (Apr 12, 2011)

But, on the other hand, nobody has to hang out and listen to boring people. I don't see handcuffs on the denizens of Dona's Donuts and the suchlike.

Based on the ones I've run into only too often, the young can be just as terminally boring as the old.
The similarity is that some of both groups think they know everything.

What's the matter with entertaining yourself with whatever is of interest to you? 
For me, a good climate, a few intelligent friends, an absorbing avocation and a well stocked Kindle beats hauling my tush all over the planet looking for Shangri-La. 

Okay.........so I'm crusty. Somebody needs to do the job.


----------



## Cristobal (Nov 25, 2014)

If you're happy settling for that existence then good for you. I happen to like hauling my tush all over the plane, thank you very much. I find the real world more interesting than what one can find on your Kindle's screen. Climbing the temples in Palenque the other day in 38 C. temps with howler monkeys screaming in the jungle was quite exhilarating. And I found the music played by the street musicians in SC far more interesting than the Old Tall Boys playing the same old Classic Rock covers over and over.


----------



## grotton (Apr 20, 2012)

I've lived in San Cristobal de las Casas for almost three years and love it here. My partner and I own a chocolate business and many of our friends are involved with NGOs. Life can be slow and easy with plenty of time for Kindle reading and smart conversation in the coffee shops downtown. And adventure is easy to find too. 

For those of you reaching for your oxygen masks at Cristobals' shocking claim we survive without a McDonalds, let me assure you this is false and we have one located just outside of Centro. 

The NGO business is a tough one here and on your first trek to the communities to offer your services don't be surprised to be greeted by a Chamula child chatting on his smart phone who directs you to the back of the line. The politics of aid is a complicated and you will have to prove yourself before being taken seriously. 

The only way to learn the lay of the land is to spend time here. Corresponding won't get you anywhere and no one doing meaningful work will talk to you without meeting you first.


----------



## grotton (Apr 20, 2012)

Lagaloo a Cristabol. Hope you won't continue this public bicker too much longer.


----------



## Meritorious-MasoMenos (Apr 17, 2014)

While following this thread past few days, I am watching the Brooklyn Nets-Atlanta Hawks playoff game on League Pass right now, and in a break, since they don't run the TV commercials on League Pass, they were showing the "Playoff Kiss Cam" during that time off, in game played in Brooklyn, and when it finished, they flashed a message showing "Chiapas, Mexico," with announcer intoning: "This playoff kiss cam was brought to you by Chiapas Mexico ..." and said something about Americans should visit it

I wonder how all those Mayans and fer-in do-gooders would feel about that. It seemed pretty strange to me.


----------



## Longford (May 25, 2012)

Meritorious-MasoMenos said:


> I wonder how all those Mayans and fer-in do-gooders would feel about that. It seemed pretty strange to me.


Historically, and certainly culturally, IMO, Chiapas is deeply-rooted in Guatemala and Central America more than in Mexico. Many of the expats attracted to las Casas aren't ones I'd want to be around or associated with.  Living in one of the Lake Chapala communities would probably suit me better ... if I had to make a choice between the two ... because of the area, specifically, and the ease of accessing other centers of culture and commerce not too far away (principally, but not exclusively ... Guadalajara).


----------



## Hound Dog (Jan 18, 2009)

Longford said:


> Historically, and certainly culturally, IMO, Chiapas is deeply-rooted in Guatemala and Central America more than in Mexico. Many of the expats attracted to las Casas aren't ones I'd want to be around or associated with.  Living in one of the Lake Chapala communities would probably suit me better ... if I had to make a choice between the two ... because of the area, specifically, and the ease of accessing other centers of culture and commerce not too far away (principally, but not exclusively ... Guadalajara).


A well stated posting, Longford but as one who lives both in Chapala and Chiapas, and has done so for several years, I present another, although not necessarily contradictory view - just another perspective and one stated with respect for your many years of experience in this country. 

You are certainly correct that Chiapas is more deeply rooted in Central America than it is in much of today´s Mexico. To some extent, I would say the same of Oaxaca State, Tabasco and parts of Guerrero but Chiapas is a unique place as you indicate. On the other hand, defining "...centers of culture and commerce...." becomes a more complex issue. I would say that that is according to what one is seeking. I find Chiapas and the Lake Chapala regions to be both culturally and commercially important for different reasons. I will not try to define either as superior - just vastly different. Culturally, Chiapas to me is far more fascinating than the culture one finds along the lake but that is just a personal preference and not intended as judgmental. As for ease of access to cultural and commercial centers - that is also a debatable point. I really like Guadalajara and find it easy to access from Lake Chapala but, and I speak now as a resident of the Bay Area of California for four decades, Guadalajara is Fresno South culturally and comercially speaking and I don´t mean that as an insult. I worked in Fresno often while living in California and they have the best Armenian restaurants in the state so, once again, all is perspective. 

When I am at Lake Chapala, I can drive to Guadalajara in under an hour to shop and when I am in San Cristóbal de Las Casas I can drive to Tuxtla Gutiérrez in under an hour to shop and both of those large cities offer similar commercial and cultural activities. If I need really big city shopping or cultural opportunities, I can fly from either Chiapas or Jalisco to Mexico City in an hour so what the hell is the difference? Now, as I have stated before on this fórum, I have easy access in Chiapas to the Gulf, Caribbean or Pacific beaches all in just a few hours - try that from Lake Chapala.

All that having been said, I much prefer living at Lake Chapala over Highland Chiapas because Highland Chiapas is subject to rainy, cold and foggy weather at that altitude and due to its proximity to Gulf coastal climatological phenomena which is not the case at Lake Chapala where the weather is supurb almost all of the time.

To me, the important thing is variety. I grew up in a beautiful South Alabama town, a most pleasant place to live, but the minute I cut the cord, as a young man I was off to Washington, D.C., San Francisco and Paris among a number of other far-flung places. If one stays in the same place too long one finds the highlight of one´s life is sitting on the front porch in a rocking chair picking one´s nose and contemplating what life may have been like in Rio De Janeiro with all those fabulous babes on the beach there and going, "Damn, what I was thinking hanging around here since I got my first driver´s license and a couple of bucks to buy gas to get to Atlanta?"


----------



## lagoloo (Apr 12, 2011)

The places one lives, IMO, are secondary to other matters in their lives, to wit: I lived in San Francisco for a goodly period as well as a few other interesting places with much to offer in the way of stimulation, inspiration and entertainment. Since I have no desire to cope with the factors that go along with jungle adventures, I haven't missed much that's worth doing. For me, that is. YMMV.

On the other hand, if an individual happens to be a musical composer, a writer or a visual artist, what difference does it make where he or she lives? Not much, once the natural youthful hunger for seeing that's important to that person has been satisfied. 

A large part of the world contains people whose circumstances have prevented them from fulfilling that sort of desire, and who never get the chance to wander more than fifty miles from their birthplace. Worse yet: those whose daily lives offer no choices at all if they are not to go hungry. 

Most of us posting on here are some of the luckiest people on Earth, wherever we chose to park ourselves.


----------



## Longford (May 25, 2012)

lagoloo said:


> ... if an individual happens to be a musical composer, a writer or a visual artist, what difference does it make where he or she lives?


Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you're saying, but I do think it's hugely important where someone lives ... important to them. 

A nurturing and supportive environment is something many artists cite as being important in the lives of many ... probably most people. Of course, all of this depends upon where someone is in their stage(s) of development. 

For many expats, its important to be in close proximity to artistic/cultural opportunities and people with whom they can speak English, as one example. Yet others strive to isolate themselves from many things and immerse themselves in all things Mexican .... and that's fine for them, because that's what they've figured-out they need to do to live a good life.

But "where" is crucially important, IMO.


----------



## lagoloo (Apr 12, 2011)

You're not "misunderstanding", exactly, but "sort of" missing my point.

What I posted meant that life satisfaction may not be dependent on where you live. I know a number of creative types who, in maturity, deliberately choose to live and work away from distractions, crowded areas, and even other people in their vicinity. They are often considered eccentric or even plain crazy. History is loaded with famous examples. 

However, as I also pointed out, that isn't for everyone. "Where" IS crucially important to many people. Thankfully, we're all different and once size definitely does not fit all.


----------



## AlanMexicali (Jun 1, 2011)

lagoloo said:


> Most of us posting on here are some of the luckiest people on Earth, wherever we chose to park ourselves.



I think it is a special kind of person or couple who move to Mexico to retire or work. I didn´t find living in the extreme heat and dryness of Mexicali at all to my disliking but when I moved to the high desert plateau I found Mexico even more to my liking.

I actually do feel very lucky and happy to be here.


----------

