# How possible is it to 'Live the Dream'?



## JSJP89 (Aug 11, 2013)

Hi All,

My girlfriend and I are a young professional couple (24) living in the UK and would like to make the move that everyone dreams of, living and working in Canada or the USA. We would like to know if it is a realistic prospect for us and whether the 'dream' is so that or whether we have an idealistic view of the move, the reality being vastly different.

Essentially we don't want to spend our entire lives living and working in the UK, we want to move abroad to an English speaking country (hence Canada or USA) and experience life on the other side of the Atlantic.

My girlfriend works in retail and would have a ready made job for the move whenever she decided to take it, a job would be waiting for her. I myself work in administration and have a couple of years experience of this, I would like to continue this wherever we would move and would have no issue starting at the bottom of the ladder but would not have a job to walk into, I did so years ago with Data Entry. We currently live and work in central Bristol in a modern one bed flat with high spec kitchen/bathroom etc.

I have been doing research this afternoon on a move to Canada (Vancouver and Toronto mainly) - I have been put off by many forums and answers to questions stating that the majority of people moving to Canada end up not in a job years on end and taking very low paid, unskilled work just to forge a living. Other comments have mentioned that quality of life can be lower than the USA due to high living costs - The idea of high living costs and no job has worried me that this idea to move is not really feasible and that living in Canada, is completely different to visiting Canada, living there not being all that it's cracked up to me.

I, like many others, have the idea that Canada is a delightfully friendly place, with a cleaner infrastructure and a better quality of life to many other countries (UK included). Is this not a reality at all?

I guess, what I am asking is:

1) Are jobs possible to come by for an educated, willing to start at the bottom of the admin ladder, experienced young male?
2) Is living in Canada in any way related to our 'dream' idea of the country or is it just that, a dream?
3) (Possibly controversial for a Canada forum? ) - With knowing what you do about our situation, would the USA or Canada be the best bet for us?
4) How is the quality of life, I understand crime is low in Canada but with the average wage/cost of living do people live in the homes they want to, or the homes they can afford?
5) If all the above is a welcome answer, what, how long and how costly is the process of moving from the UK to Canada?

I thank you for reading and, hopefully, look forward to hearing from you all.


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## luvcanada (Nov 10, 2011)

Here are my answers.

1. Jobs are available. But, like virtually every western country for the last several years, most companies are not desperately looking for people. Jobs are somewhat scarce and there are many applicants. The fact that you are relatively young and have experience gives you a better opportunity to find work than many others. I don't think that things are much different in the USA than in Canada. In fact, most reports over the last 3 years suggest that the employment opportunity has been better in Canada.

2. Canada is a fantastic country. I would not want to live anywhere else. I moved here from the USA and have never regretted my decision to do so.

3. If you read my answers to questions 1 and 2 you should know that I think Canada is the place to be. I have 2 children in their early twenties. I would have moved back to the USA years ago if I thought that would be a better place for them. I think I made the right decision to stay in Canada.

4. Everyone lives in a house they can afford. Dream homes are for television shows. However, Toronto and Vancouver are the two most expensive places to live in Canada and both cost considerably more than in the USA. My brothers and sisters living in the USA have seen their house values move sideways for the last 20 years. In Toronto our house values have probably tripled. This makes it more difficult for those entering the housing market. However, don't equate quality of live to cost of housing. I have seen two members of my family go into debt to pay hospital bills. My clothes cost more, my car costs more, gasoline costs more, houses cost more but I believe my life is much better here. You may want to consider moving to another location other than Vancouver or Toronto. Try Calgary for more income and a lower cost of living.

5. I am sorry, but I can't help you with this one. I have no experience with the process today.


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## Jrge (Mar 22, 2011)

Hi,

1) Here in Canada there is room and opportunities for every gender. 
2) Most of us became immigrants/expats just by following a dream. Some of us have seen that dream come to past, while others never had a chance. I have lived in several other countries, including the US and the UK, and: hats off to Canada!
3) At the moment, Canada has more opportunities than the US.
4) Like anywhere in the world, you live only where you can afford it.
5) It all depends which route you decide to take. My UK employer has sponsored our work permit and now PR application and the latest I heard, they had already paid the Law firm upwards $25k per employee (we are 26)

Please keep in mind that Canada is an awesome country to live in, but it ain't paradise. 

Animo
(Cheers)


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## JSJP89 (Aug 11, 2013)

Hi Both,

Many thanks for your answers! This has definitely reassured me a little, obviously when I say living the dream in a house this rarely happens and we don't do this now so am not expecting paradise as such.

On the living front we would simply require a house/apartment with 1 or 2 bedrooms and all the essentials to a relatively high standard, nothing major or fancy, our rent is currently £725pcm in the UK, according to XE this is $1156 in Canada - would this get you much within Toronto/Vancouver? I understand rates in Canada are higher than the UK, in and around the districts of the major cities what sort of price would you be looking at paying for the same in the UK.

The housing would need to be within driving/commuting distance to the working districts of the city (am aware that this is probably quite vague), is transportation in the mornings good in Canada for work?

Finally (for now) and I'm sure it'll be a positive answer, for anyone who has also lived in the UK, we are imagining that Toronto and Vancouver are just beautiful, clean and nice cities to live in compared to the UK. This is one of the main points for moving over and would like to have this idea validated if it is indeed true.

Finally (again), thanks for your recommendation on Calgary luvcanada, which other cities in Canada are comparable and big enough cities to live in and experience the best of Canada, obviously we have only thought of Vancouver and Toronto because they're the 2 biggest that come to mind, we're not absolutely set on these 2 cities.

We are visiting Canada for 2 weeks next year so will definitely have some idea on the country before the move. 

Again, thanks for the responses!


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## MellyMoose (Jun 10, 2013)

Hi JSJP89,

Check this thread out to see if you and your gf qualify for the FSWP:

http://www.expatforum.com/expats/ca...s-living-canada/165967-suggestion-sticky.html

Applications open again in May 2014 so plenty of time to get everything you need to apply.
Good luck getting to Canada


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## preeti22 (Jan 3, 2013)

Canada is little bit expensive


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## natali449 (Sep 12, 2012)

oh! this is a very informative
post! i actually enjoyed reading this..


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## luvcanada (Nov 10, 2011)

JSJP,

You can find a 1 or 2 bdrm apartment in/around Toronto for $1200. It won't be top of the line but it will be fine. My son was renting an apartment on Eglinton Ave E near Laird in Toronto (check it out on Google street view). It was a 1 - bdrm unit facing the yard in back of the building. Nothing special but a decent place in a very good area with excellent public transit to downtown. $1200 covered all expenses but there were no amenities in the building other than a laundry room. Obviously for more money you could get a bigger place, better amenities, etc. Public transit in Toronto will cost you $5+ a day, so if you can find rental close walking distance from where you work you could also apply that to rent. - Just a thought.

Try using Viewit.ca, caprent.com or torontorentals.com. Viewit.ca is good because it is a central site that many companies use to rent units in their buildings. All these sites tend to list rentals for larger buildings. Be careful using craigslist and kijiji. Both of these sites have been used by scammers who "rent" units that are already rented to or owned by someone else.

Believe me Toronto is a clean, safe place. Every visitor that has come to visit our family (mostly from the US) are amazed at three things about Toronto (all of which you have touched on) - It is clean, safe and housing is expensive. But usually, you get what you pay for. Toronto is also very multicultural, multilingual and traffic is a pain.


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## Jrge (Mar 22, 2011)

Hi,


JSJP89 said:


> Hi Both,
> 
> Many thanks for your answers! This has definitely reassured me a little, obviously when I say living the dream in a house this rarely happens and we don't do this now so am not expecting paradise as such.
> 
> ...


In terms of housing pricing y'all could find something within that range, but it won't be near close to the quality you currently have and/or are used to. For instance, in London we paid £1,285pcm ($2,046) for our 2 bed/2bath flat in zone 2: a real hidden gem! Everything was (is) modern and high end. Here in Edmonton we were initially housed in an apartment kind of similar, and rent was 2.5 times higher. Mind you, income here is higher.

Depending on the point of view, (City mainly) Canada is cleaner and a much safer country than UK. However, you might find a few thugs-wanna-be here and there, but as soon as winter hits, their rough attitude freezes up.

But one of the things I love the most about Canada, is the respect of ones values and beliefs. In no other country I have ever felt this accepted. Canadians celebrate diversity and are always eager to learn about other cultures. (Please mind my Canadians co-workers and friends aren't quite right in their heads , hence my biased comment)

Calgary is a nice city with plenty of white collar jobs, and its packed with things to do. One only hopes you don't mind winter.

Animo
(Cheers)


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## JSJP89 (Aug 11, 2013)

Great stuff, thanks Jrge, winter is not an issue, I deal with the cold much better than I do the heat, anything above 27c or so I don't handle. 

I would also like the cold to actually bring some beauty with it (snow) as opposed to it just being cold and drab as it is in the UK!

I've been told that the only way I could get entry to Canada is through the IEC program, does anyone know how this works and what sort of jobs are available through this program, when people move over etc. I'd hope in the 2 years I'd be here to have a permanent work placement so that I could apply for a PR visa but am concerned that I would not have a full time job after those 2 years (that sounds slightly ridiculous as I got a full time job in the UK 2 months after looking but I don't want it to be a massive risk).

It seems I will definitely have to research the housing situation a little further but as long as there is affordable housing, not too shabby on the outskirts of places like Calgary I'm sure we'll be fine.

I've also looked online for salary indicators for jobs in Canada but found quite conflicting information, could anyone possibly estimate the wage salary in CAD for a retail team manager (Girlfriend) and a low end admin sort of job (Me).

Again, many thanks!


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## ElizabethG (Aug 8, 2013)

JSJP89 said:


> Great stuff, thanks Jrge, winter is not an issue, I deal with the cold much better than I do the heat, anything above 27c or so I don't handle.
> 
> I would also like the cold to actually bring some beauty with it (snow) as opposed to it just being cold and drab as it is in the UK!
> 
> ...



Hi

For wages in Alberta (if you consider Calgary for instance) check out alis.alberta.ca
Retail/low end admin. not brilliant for wages and normally non-salaried (hourly rate). 
Calgary nice enough vibrant multi cultural city to live in but as with any city it has it's own problems. Big gang culture in the city. Not 'that' clean, expensive. Don't get a lot for your buck. Lots to do though and so close to the beautiful mountains you can almost touch them.


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## Jrge (Mar 22, 2011)

Hi,


JSJP89 said:


> Great stuff, thanks Jrge, winter is not an issue, I deal with the cold much better than I do the heat, anything above 27c or so I don't handle.
> 
> I would also like the cold to actually bring some beauty with it (snow) as opposed to it just being cold and drab as it is in the UK!
> 
> ...


It's nice to hear that you enjoy winters, I only hope you get to like Canadian winters.

In terms of work and compensation, we (I) heavily use this: Job Bank - Home as it gives you an idea on trends by markets (Provinces), fields ( sectors of economy) and volume (size of employers).

Now, how to get here! Well, there are several options and one of those is IEC. However, please enjoy these FAQ .Travel and Work in Canada | Frequently Asked Questions From the United Kingdom Students and Youth About Travel and Work in Canada | International Experience Canada. Another options are, finding an employer (s) willing to sponsor you and your partner, and of course: the student route.

Since y'all are coming next year, I encourage you to make the most out of it and to network as much as you can.

Animo
(Cheers)


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## Tejay333 (Feb 6, 2013)

My girlfriend and I are in the same situation as you, we have made steps to get out there using the IEC Visa. Our stories are similar in the way i work in a professional trade (dental technology) and my girlfriend can put her hand to anything with years working in admin/reception/retail.
We settled on Toronto as our destination of choice because of the work opportunities, instead of researching housing and living cost we first looked at where the jobs where then i asked employers in that area what i would be paid, and if i was desirable with my current experience, from there we could see what our best options where and where we could set our roots. 
we are moving out there with our ENTIRE life savings so it is still a gamble but i feel it is a gamble worth taking as life here in the U.K is quite bleak in my area (north-west)
the IEC is the easiest and quickest way to get out there and despite only being 12 months its a good way to get yourself established in a job. i'm quite happy to help you out if you go down that path as we have our clearance and go out to Toronto this October. but look for jobs and where the best places for you are first. 
pm me if you want any further details about the IEC process. 
chris


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## JSJP89 (Aug 11, 2013)

Tejay333 said:


> My girlfriend and I are in the same situation as you, we have made steps to get out there using the IEC Visa. Our stories are similar in the way i work in a professional trade (dental technology) and my girlfriend can put her hand to anything with years working in admin/reception/retail.
> We settled on Toronto as our destination of choice because of the work opportunities, instead of researching housing and living cost we first looked at where the jobs where then i asked employers in that area what i would be paid, and if i was desirable with my current experience, from there we could see what our best options where and where we could set our roots.
> we are moving out there with our ENTIRE life savings so it is still a gamble but i feel it is a gamble worth taking as life here in the U.K is quite bleak in my area (north-west)
> the IEC is the easiest and quickest way to get out there and despite only being 12 months its a good way to get yourself established in a job. i'm quite happy to help you out if you go down that path as we have our clearance and go out to Toronto this October. but look for jobs and where the best places for you are first.
> ...


Good stuff, I'm wondering if it is easiest for my partner to go down the IEC route as opposed to an Intra-Country transfer as after the required time at her workplace she would be able to apply through the CEC anyway it seems.

I am definitely on planning to apply through IEC, how long is the application process and if people are eligible and apply say on the first day, is there any reason the application would be rejected?

It would be great if the acceptance letter and everything gave a few months to find a job in Canada whilst preparing things, I assume you get plenty of time to search for jobs and housing before you move?

Even if just for 2 years I'd love to make the move over but beyond then I'm hoping to find the work eligible to make the stay last longer, how often do people on the IEC, who want to, end up staying longer?

Would be great to have someone to go to in order to ask more about the process if and when we apply so I might take you up on that 

I have looked around the web and found that people are saying that around $3-$4k a month is required to live quite comfortably (rent, bills, transport, not much fancy stuff etc.) in Calgary (and around Canada?). Even if I took the lowest of admin roles I estimate looking around that I'd be on $22k, the girlfriend would be on nearer $40k if not more. With the bills split between us. Would a young couple earning $60-$70k combined find a comfortable living style within Canada?

I hear living as a couple helps the cost of living no end?


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## abeeromar77 (Oct 21, 2012)

*Moving to Canada*



luvcanada said:


> Here are my answers.
> 
> 1. Jobs are available. But, like virtually every western country for the last several years, most companies are not desperately looking for people. Jobs are somewhat scarce and there are many applicants. The fact that you are relatively young and have experience gives you a better opportunity to find work than many others. I don't think that things are much different in the USA than in Canada. In fact, most reports over the last 3 years suggest that the employment opportunity has been better in Canada.
> 
> ...



Hi, 
Thanks for the information that you posted, am wondering if you can help me with this or advice me with the right person that could help plzzz.
My brother plaining to move to Canada live and work there, he is 23 years old, and he is a Jordanian, the process in Jordan to get the visa to Canada a bit complicated, he has experience in retail, so any advice as the situation in Jordan is difficult, and I want him to build his future & career in Canada, I thought to send you and ask you as you have kids with the same age and you might consider him as a son for you.

I do appreciate your help and fast responsd on this,
Thanks a lot,
Abeer Omar


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## abeeromar77 (Oct 21, 2012)

Thank you all for the information as my brother want to travel to Canada to work and live there I hope he will find a friend to help him until he stand up and get the knowledge with the country, I am not sure who could help him with getting the visa to Canada as he is a Jordanian and need more clarification on this, I do appreciate your help on this,,
Many thanks again,
Abeer Omar


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## luvcanada (Nov 10, 2011)

abeeromar77 said:


> Hi,
> Thanks for the information that you posted, am wondering if you can help me with this or advice me with the right person that could help plzzz.
> My brother plaining to move to Canada live and work there, he is 23 years old, and he is a Jordanian, the process in Jordan to get the visa to Canada a bit complicated, he has experience in retail, so any advice as the situation in Jordan is difficult, and I want him to build his future & career in Canada, I thought to send you and ask you as you have kids with the same age and you might consider him as a son for you.
> 
> ...


Abeer, I just heard on the radio this week that retail is one of the top growing job categories in Canada so your brother may be in a good position to find work. Unfortunately, retail does not pay very well but it could be a start for him. I am sorry I will not be able to personally help him because I have my hands full with several commitments besides my own kids. You may now this already but there several large communities of various nationalities from the middle east in the Toronto area that he may be able to approach for guidance and support. Regarding the visa process, I don't really know anything about the visa system for Canada and cannot offer any assistance in that area.

It is good of you to try to help him. I wish him good luck in this process and in his new life.


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## abeeromar77 (Oct 21, 2012)

*Hi,*



luvcanada said:


> Abeer, I just heard on the radio this week that retail is one of the top growing job categories in Canada so your brother may be in a good position to find work. Unfortunately, retail does not pay very well but it could be a start for him. I am sorry I will not be able to personally help him because I have my hands full with several commitments besides my own kids. You may now this already but there several large communities of various nationalities from the middle east in the Toronto area that he may be able to approach for guidance and support. Regarding the visa process, I don't really know anything about the visa system for Canada and cannot offer any assistance in that area.
> 
> It is good of you to try to help him. I wish him good luck in this process and in his new life.


Thanks you so much luvcanada for the info, I am doing my best to help him moving to Canada and build his own life and career there, hope it work easy with him, and he will find a good people to support him.. 

Cheers
Abeer Omar


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## JSJP89 (Aug 11, 2013)

Thanks for everyones help so far, we're now currently looking for areas to live in Vancouver as the girlfriend thinks this would be a better bet for both of us than Calgary.

We are looking for accommodation for rent (1 or 2 bedrooms) that has to be within easy commuting distance (on public transport) to the Richmond area and Downtown Vancouver - I would be looking for an office job, what ever level, and assume that downtown and it's immediately surrounding areas are where most of the jobs are?

We have been looking at the following areas:

Oakridge
Marpole
Richmond
Burnaby
Sunset
Riley Park
Shaugnessey
Kensington Cedar Cottage
Victoria Fraserview
...And any others that we haven't considered?

I would like the information on the above in terms of:

- If it's generally a nice place to live
- Safety of the area
- Ability to get to Downtown and Richmond areas
- cost of rents (we're looking to pay max of $1200-$1300)

We don't need anything all too fancy, 1 bedroom, 1 bathroom place to ourselves with nice finish to the flat etc.

Many Thanks again for your help


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## Jrge (Mar 22, 2011)

Hi,


JSJP89 said:


> Thanks for everyones help so far, we're now currently looking for areas to live in Vancouver as the girlfriend thinks this would be a better bet for both of us than Calgary.
> 
> We are looking for accommodation for rent (1 or 2 bedrooms) that has to be within easy commuting distance (on public transport) to the Richmond area and Downtown Vancouver - I would be looking for an office job, what ever level, and assume that downtown and it's immediately surrounding areas are where most of the jobs are?
> 
> ...


Last Thursday we dropped off our 20 y/o son in Vancouver. He's rented a 1 bedroom apartment with "no frills", and stripped down to the basics for $1,300.00 pcm.

He is walking distance from his office, and 30 minutes drive or sky train ride from his school. 

The place my wife wanted is in false creek, and the asking price was only $2,700pcm for a much nicer apartment. However, he decided to take the cheaper one in order to have more money in his pockets and be able to keep his toys (Motorcycle, watercraft and SUV)

However, I strongly suggest you visit the city first to have a much better idea and understanding of what y'all might be getting into.

Animo
(Cheers)


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## JSJP89 (Aug 11, 2013)

Jrge said:


> Hi,
> 
> Last Thursday we dropped off our 20 y/o son in Vancouver. He's rented a 1 bedroom apartment with "no frills", and stripped down to the basics for $1,300.00 pcm.
> 
> ...


Where abouts is that appartment?

Have been looking online and have seen a fair few rentals around the outskirts of Vancouver for going around the $1000pcm mark and so thought $1300pcm was a fair conservative estimate.

For example this place in Oakridge, $1300 looks like a very nice place that we would find comfortable living in, within distance of the Richmond and downtown areas: https://www.padmapper.com/show.php?type=5&id=158865522&src=main (or this) http://vancouver.en.craigslist.ca/van/apa/4006211178.html

We pay £725pcm at the moment, not including heat, water etc. so for a similar price we could get this apparetment.

We would ideally visit first but doubt it would be possible with the costs involved hence why I want to know as much about those neighbourhoods as possible. 

Obviously I've heard lots about Craigslist but never experience it myself, is renting on Craigslist a usual and safe thing to do?


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## Jrge (Mar 22, 2011)

Hi,


JSJP89 said:


> Where abouts is that appartment?
> 
> Have been looking online and have seen a fair few rentals around the outskirts of Vancouver for going around the $1000pcm mark and so thought $1300pcm was a fair conservative estimate.
> 
> ...


So, the place is still in metro-Vancouver and it clearly fits his wants and needs. Mind that our realtor (letting agent) -against her will- looked at it before we did, as we found it in kijiji.ca. Whilst our realtor had found real nice and modern places, my son didn't like them simply because he wanted to keep his toys handy.

His monthly living- budget is set at $2,500 (rent, cable/Internet, electricity, mobile, food) and in addition to that, he's put money aside for vehicle maintenance, insurance, etc.

I encourage you to sort out your legal entry first, and worry about housing later.

Animo
(Cheers)


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## NiesaK (May 26, 2014)

H i there: couldn't resist the temptation to contribute, somewhat belatedly.. I've lived in Scotland and Canada (about 20+ years in both countries.) My experience of Canada is somewhat mixed. Ontario is suffering from economic difficulties right now. In my firm, we average around 300+ applicants for any roles we advertise (admin and financial services.) Retail jobs are sometimes plentiful, but generally are minimum wage (approx $10.00/hour.) Admin roles at entry level would perhaps be around $35,000.

One of you would need a job that has a benefit plan. There is no equivalent of the UK's NHS here. Hospitals are something of a revolving door. Ontario has the lowest nurse/patient ratio in North America.

I live in a one bedroom apartment in a relatively nice area and my rent is $1400 month.

The weather is certainly changeable - I don't think anything prepares you for minus 35 degree winters in Ontario. 

At the weekend here, the shootings/stabbings got into double digits. Granted there was a festival here, but it's just a different type of crime than in the UK, where guns are not so readily available.

Having said all of that, I may be somewhat prejudiced. I'd like a good quality of life (safe, good weather, getting off the proverbial treadmill and not waiting 15 minutes to get on a subway.) You and your girlfriend are obviously a lot younger and probably none of these things would phase you.

Things in Alberta and BC are somewhat different - job market, climate, healthcare is a little different too.

On the positive side, if you have the cash, Toronto has a great entertainment industry and if you find the right place, eating out can be a bit more affordable than London and it's certainly clean.

But there's nothing worse than not giving something a try - so give it your best shot!


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## colchar (Oct 25, 2011)

NiesaK said:


> One of you would need a job that has a benefit plan. There is no equivalent of the UK's NHS here.





We have socialized medicine here in Ontario too.






> The weather is certainly changeable - I don't think anything prepares you for minus 35 degree winters in Ontario.



If in southern Ontario those temps would only be experienced rarely. Even last winter, which was unusually bad, didn't feature temps like that.





> At the weekend here, the shootings/stabbings got into double digits.



When was the last time _any_ city in Ontario suffered double digit shootings or stabbings in a weekend? According to statistics provided by the Toronto Police Service, the city only experienced 30 homicides (of all types) in 2011, 33 in 2012, 35 in 2013, and only 24 so far this year.


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