# medical insurance suggestions



## HughT (Jan 18, 2017)

Hello. I have been living in Silao, Guanajuato for two years and commuting to Detroit for work for two weeks every month. I am ready to retire within the next three months. I am a 66 year old permanent resident and need to make a choice about medical coverage. I'm very confused about age limit of 65. I also live in an area with no English speaking doctors that I am aware of and hospitalization in case of emergencies is a concern. Of course my UHC will cease at retirement. I do not plan on living in the USA again at this point. 

Any and all advice would be apprecitated.

Thank you


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## dvinton (Mar 8, 2019)

Hello HughT,

Perhaps you've seen this thread, but here's something to digest. https://www.expatforum.com/expats/m...mexico/1480838-keeping-medicare-coverage.html

From what I've read in other discussions the type of coverage that's right for you boils down to what services are locally available.

My wife and I will take up residence in Ajijic later this year. We expect to fund out of pocket most of our medical/dental expenses. We've been in talks with a local insurance broker about catastrophic coverage.

We plan to stay indefinitely in Mexico but will keep a minimum of Medicare coverage as a backstop. Hopefully, we'll abandon this as we assimilate into our new lives in Mexico.

Good luck,

Don


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

For what it is worth, I use a mix of IMSS and paying-out-of-pocket.

I don't think IMSS (Instituto Mexicano de Seguro Social) is available to tourists but it is available for people on a visa. It costs about $10,000 mxn/year now for my age (74), cheaper for younger people. IMSS care is inconsistent and the quality depends on where you are. Seeing a specialist for non-emergency issues entails a long wait for an appointment, but I can talk to my family doctor with a wait of only a day or two. The annual fee is the only cost, no co-pays, no charges for prescriptions.

I also go to a private doctor occasionally. I don't use the IMSS dental care.

Edit: Added time period to cost.


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## lat19n (Aug 19, 2017)

At the moment we also have IMSS and pay for stuff out of pocket. In 2016 IMSS cost us 6000 pesos. In 2019 IMSS cost us 10000 pesos. We did move into a different age band, but they also increase the cost every year as well. I suspect that this year it might be something like 14000 pesos or so (no idea). 

Last year my wife had catarac surgery on both eyes at an outside specialty eye clinic. It went great. Cost 20000/eye. We might recoup that money on the savings from her no longer needed contact lens. She does need two different types of eye drops, both of which are available at IMSS. Just filling her prescription at IMSS might cover her annual membership fee.

We still need to look into private insurance but have been lazy.

HughT: 

One new change near us (maybe elsewhere as well) is the new replacement for Seguro Popular called INSABI which went into affect Jan 1st. To get care you simply need to walk in the door with a copy of your 'green card' (resident visa) and a printed copy of your CURP. There is no signup procedure and there are no fees. I have never been to a Seguro Popular hospital/clinic but I bet that the overall 'feel' would be close to that of IMSS. Perhaps it might be worth your while to give it a shot. Go to a INSABI facility for something/anything and get the 'feel' for the place. Can you handle the lines/waiting ? Would you trust them if something serious were to come up ?

Just a thought.


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## AlanMexicali (Jun 1, 2011)

"Green card" - Mexican resident visa/card will not get you medical service at the new INSABI [previously the Seguro Popular]. Only an INE card and CURP or birth certificate - Mexican - will be accepted there. No more legal residents as of Jan. 1st. will be accepted. Keep your IMSS or join the IMSS if you qualify. Even if you are the spouse of a Mexican national you cannot use ISABI. This is written in the Secretaria de Salud new law replacing the previous law.


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## xolo (May 25, 2014)

I physically went to where Seguro Popular used to function (which now doesn't exist, as of 1 January 2020). That was at the general hospital here.

I am a permanent resident.

I was offered free medical services via INSABI. No questions asked other than my Residence Visa.

And you will need your CURP too.

That was my experience. Where I'm located, you will also need Spanish.


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## lat19n (Aug 19, 2017)

AlanMexicali said:


> "Green card" - Mexican resident visa/card will not get you medical service at the new INSABI [previously the Seguro Popular]. Only an INE card and CURP or birth certificate - Mexican - will be accepted there. No more legal residents as of Jan. 1st. will be accepted. Keep your IMSS or join the IMSS if you qualify. Even if you are the spouse of a Mexican national you cannot use ISABI. This is written in the Secretaria de Salud new law replacing the previous law.


I have no personal interest in INSABI, I already have IMSS.
My INE card already has my CURP on it so I'm not sure I would need the printout.
I've read from more than one source something akin to - The only condition to be entitled to receive INSABI medical care is to be in the national territory and not be linked to IMSS or ISSSTE.
I also read that youngsters who do not have a CURP can provide a birth certificate. They surely won't have an INE card.

Back when - on the day I received my permanent 'green card' I also received a letter from INM stating the rights it brought with it. If I am not mistaken one of those rights was the entitlement to free health care. Am I wrong ?

[edit]
Here is a link of the secretary of salud's website :
https://www.gob.mx/salud/prensa/002-atencion-a-personas-sin-seguridad-social-se-garantiza-en-los-centros-publicos-de-salud-insabi

Note - "The Institute of Health for Welfare (Insabi) informs that all people who are in the country and do not have social security have the right to receive free public health services, medicines and other associated supplies, at the time of requiring the attention"


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## AlanMexicali (Jun 1, 2011)

AlanMexicali said:


> "Green card" - Mexican resident visa/card will not get you medical service at the new INSABI [previously the Seguro Popular]. Only an INE card and CURP or birth certificate - Mexican - will be accepted there. No more legal residents as of Jan. 1st. will be accepted. Keep your IMSS or join the IMSS if you qualify. Even if you are the spouse of a Mexican national you cannot use ISABI. This is written in the Secretaria de Salud new law replacing the previous law.





lat19n said:


> AlanMexicali said:
> 
> 
> > "Green card" - Mexican resident visa/card will not get you medical service at the new INSABI [previously the Seguro Popular]. Only an INE card and CURP or birth certificate - Mexican - will be accepted there. No more legal residents as of Jan. 1st. will be accepted. Keep your IMSS or join the IMSS if you qualify. Even if you are the spouse of a Mexican national you cannot use ISABI. This is written in the Secretaria de Salud new law replacing the previous law.
> ...



"Para tener acceso a los servicios del Insabi las personas deben acudir a su centro de salud más cercano y presentar CURP, credencial del INE o acta de nacimiento. Ahí se realizará un registro para la continuidad de su expediente clínico."

Google Translation:

"To have access to Insabi services, people must go to their nearest health center and present CURP, INE credential or birth certificate. There a record will be made for the continuity of your clinical record."

Read further down on that webpage you quoted from and read the credentials a Mexican citizen living in Mexico or visiting needs to show for service. No foreigners will get service as of Jan. 1st. They may modify the law. Who knows now what is happening in Mexico with many institutions?


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## Cristóbal1 (Jan 5, 2020)

AlanMexicali said:


> Read further down on that webpage you quoted from and read the credentials a Mexican citizen living in Mexico or visiting needs to show for service. No foreigners will get service as of Jan. 1st. They may modify the law. Who knows now what is happening in Mexico with many institutions?


These articles contradict your premise.


https://d.elhorizonte.mx/local/hasta-migrantes-tendran-salud-en-mexico-gratis/2746514

https://m.oncenoticias.tv/nota/insabi-garantizara-servicios-de-salud-para-todos-los-mexicanos


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## AlanMexicali (Jun 1, 2011)

Cristóbal said:


> These articles contradict your premise.
> 
> 
> https://d.elhorizonte.mx/local/hasta-migrantes-tendran-salud-en-mexico-gratis/2746514
> ...


One article states INSABI "should" allow illegal immigrants service for humanitarian reasons quoted from a civil rights group spokesman involved with migrants in Mexico.

The other article dated Oct. 24th., 2019 stated INSABI "needs" to include foreigners living in the national territory and is a Morena Party Deputy speaking during the debating sessión before the voting to pass the new Secretaria de Salud law. The Secretaria de Saulud law was passed on Nov. 29th. 2019 and does not include service to any foreigners, legal or illegal, in the national territory. Mexican citizens only at this point in time will recieve service from INSABI.


"El artículo 77 bis 7 de la Ley General de Salud, cuya reciente modificación fue publicada en el Diario Oficial de la Federación el 29 de noviembre,..." 

Google Translation: 

"Article 77 bis 7 of the General Health Law, whose recent modification was published in the Official Gazette of the Federation on November 29,..." 

https://www.gob.mx/salud/prensa/a-p...-atencion-medica-gratuita-y-sin-restricciones

Google Translation: 

"Home: 

Secretary of Health Press 

336. From the 1st. January, Insabi offers free and unrestricted medical care 

The beneficiaries must only present the INE credential, CURP or birth certificate. 

It should be remembered that INSABI starts functions on January 1, 2020 as a decentralized body of the Secretary of Health and the services it will offer will be under criteria of universality, equality and inclusion. 

The beneficiaries must only present the INE credential, CURP or birth certificate.￼ 



Author: Secretary of Health Publication Date December 30, 2019 National Category: 

With the entry into official status of the Institute of Health for Wellbeing (Insabi) people without social security [IMSS] will receive free medical care and medicines without restrictions, as they will no longer need to join or pay fees. 

As part of the transformation actions of the public health system that the federal government implements to guarantee free medical care and medicines to the entire population, as of January 1, 2020, Insabi beneficiaries must only present their INE credential, the Unique Population Registration Code (CURP) or your birth certificate to receive public health services. 

Those who have an affiliation policy will no longer need to present it because that document is without effect as of January 1 [all Seguro Popular contracts will be invalid ], since the care will be offered without restrictions. 

Article 77 bis 7 of the General Health Law, whose recent modification was published in the Official Gazette of the Federation on November 29, states that in order to receive the free provision of health services, medications and other supplies, only three requirements 

The first is to be in national territory. Second, not be a right holder in IMSS or Issste; and the third, submit the CURP, which is in the INE credential or, where appropriate, a birth certificate. 

Health for Wellbeing (Insabi); people without social security [IMSS] will receive free medical care and medicines without restrictions, as they will no longer need to join or pay fees. 

Therefore, they will no longer need to go to a module, join and receive a policy; nor will they have to pay annual fees to be treated in the medical units as was the case before." 


This is part of the Secretaria de Salud Law what is required to get service. No mention of any foreigners legally or illegally in Mexico qualifying.


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## Cristóbal1 (Jan 5, 2020)

OK, I won't argue with a Google warrior over the issue. Another poster's personal experience and what I have read are sufficient proof for me that foreigners can use the service.


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## AlanMexicali (Jun 1, 2011)

Cristóbal said:


> OK, I won't argue with a Google warrior over the issue. Another poster's personal experience and what I have read are sufficient proof for me that foreigners can use the service.


Whatever floats your boat.


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## lat19n (Aug 19, 2017)

Well I'm the guy who bought up INSABI when I suggested HughT perhaps walk in their door and get a feel for it as it is free and even easier to use than in the past. I still stand by that suggestion.

*********************
I think it only fair that we close the INSABI discussion by stating that to date there are NO reported incidences of anyone being denied services from them. To the contrary, even on this thread, xolo reported no problems receiving care as a non-citizen.
**********************


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## AlanMexicali (Jun 1, 2011)

lat19n said:


> Well I'm the guy who bought up INSABI when I suggested HughT perhaps walk in their door and get a feel for it as it is free and even easier to use than in the past. I still stand by that suggestion.
> 
> *********************
> I think it only fair that we close the INSABI discussion by stating that to date there are NO reported incidences of anyone being denied services from them. To the contrary, even on this thread, xolo reported no problems receiving care as a non-citizen.
> **********************


￼
https://www.sinembargo.mx/03-01-2020/3706109

Google Translation:

"Insabi announces that it will serve people without social security with the credential of the INE, CURP or birth certificates.

Mexico City, January 3 (However) - Although the Institute for Health for Welfare (Insabi) began operating on the first day of 2020 by official decree to replace Popular Insurance, uncertainty prevails between citizens and workers of health of Mexico City, who have not been informed how it will operate. Although the new policy states that medical services must be provided free of charge, they are still charged.

However, he went to two health centers and to a public hospital with modules of affiliation to the Popular Insurance in two municipalities of the capital and confirmed that the constant between workers and patients is the ignorance of the health policy promoted by the Government of Andrés Manuel López Obrador, which was created to replace the one that during the past 16 years provided medical services to people without social security, with the difference that it is not necessary to join or pay fees, just submit the credential of the INE, the CURP or The birth certificate

Administrative and medical personnel acknowledged ignoring the changes that the Insabi operation implies. In two health centers of the Municipality of Coyoacán, those who attend must present their affiliation to the Seguro Popular or the services are charged.

“We have no official information, it would be until January 8 approximately that they may indicate ot to us,” said a doctor from the Doctor Gustavo A. Rovirosa Pérez Health Center, in the Coyoacán City Hall. "We do not know how [Insabi] will work or what will happen to Seguro Popular," said an administrative worker at the same center.

In that place, as well as in the Health Center T III San Francisco Culhuacán and in the General Xoco Hospital, of the Mayor's Office Benito Juárez, the offices of those who made the Seguro Popular affiliations are closed, some signs indicate to the population that they should go to the headquarters of the Social Protection System in Health of Mexico City or to the hospitals of the local government network to continue processing services related to Seguro Popular, not Insabi.

In the health instances visited, the workers said they did not know if those who are in charge of the procedures for Seguro Popular will return after the holiday period. Among the people waiting to be treated, there is also a fear that Insabi operations will impede their access to health, since they talk about the possibility of dismissals. At least that's how Lucia thinks, a woman who works in a hospital in Nezahualcóyotl, State of Mexico, and says that there the staff of the offices in charge of the program was separated from her position.

Information placed in the Health Center “Dr. Gustavo A. Rovirosa Pérez ”, in Coyoacán. Photo: However.

She went to the General Hospital of Xoco to attend the neurological problem of one of her relatives in the emergency room; on his cell phone he carried the photograph of the Official Gazette of the Federation of December 28, 2o19 where the operating rules of the 21st Century Medical Insurance Program were issued, which contemplates the creation of Insabi; loaded with the image in case they tried to charge the service. "It's already in the law, it wouldn't have to happen," he said.

Lucia is the exception among people who attend health centers and Xoco Hospital for the first time, questioned by this newspaper several said they did not know about the existence of Insabi and did expect to be charged for medical services because they do not have Seguro Popular.

Martha, another woman who was waiting outside Xoco Hospital for the results on her father's health, explained that Social Work area personnel did not explain that her father's Seguro Popular would expire or comment on the entry into operation of Insabi, only You were asked to process a document that proves your incorporation into the Free Medical Services and Medicines Program. Otherwise, you will have to pay your family member's hospitalization expenses. "He does have Seguro Popular and we interned him at the end of last year, but they tell me that I should process his free sheet because otherwise they will charge us for the days of 2020 pass here," he said.


In their social networks, the Social Security offices of Mexico City have only issued a notice informing that, according to the local Ministry of Health, “all persons without social security will be protected by the Medical and Drug Services Program Free ”and you are requested to register or update your data in the Free Registry.

For those who did not have Seguro Popular nothing has changed in the health centers and hospitals, there the Social Work personnel are clear in explaining: in case of not having Seguro Popular the consultations will be charged, and if they want to process it - they tell them Although the program no longer exists - they must wait until January 8, when workers from the offices responsible for affiliating people to previous public policy will probably return and give them answers.

Even with the lack of information and the testimonies that corroborate that the program has not been put into operation, President López Obrador did not respond if information campaigns are planned for the population. Questioned about the misinformation that prevails on the issue at his morning conference on January 2 and what his Government contemplates to eradicate it, the president merely celebrated the start of Insabi operations. “[The start of operations of the Institute] was a first step; that is, medical care and free medications, ”said AMLO.

￼

In the CdMx the Popular Insurance policy is still a requirement to be attended. Photo: However.


The Insabi also explained in a statement released today that the program includes providing free health services to all people without social security, in addition to medications, analysis, studies, clinical diagnoses, surgical interventions and hospitalization. "People can go to Health Centers, Health Centers with Extended Services (CESS), Medical Units of IMSS Welfare, Units of Medical Specialties and in rural, community and general hospitals," he said.



SEGURO POPULAR, THE BACKGROUND

The creation of the Insabi arises as a result of the criticism that Amlo since he was President-elect. On December 14, 2018, he announced that he would initiate a pilot health program in eight states to replace Seguro Popular in a gradual manner and the creation of Insabi took place on November 14, when the Senate of the Republic reformed the General Health Law and of the Law of the National Institutes of Health. The president has repeatedly criticized that the program "is neither safe nor popular."

The institute thus replaced Seguro Popular, with more than 51 million members, after operating for 16 years. The program was created in 2006 under the Presidency of Vicente Fox Quesada and continued operations during the governments of Felipe Calderón Hinojos and Enrique Peña Nieto, in those years, the program contemplated basic services for free, but for some conditions and surgeries the the beneficiaries had to pay a recovery fee.

The Seguro Popular operation was also marked by irregularities. Only the Executive General Report of the Public Account 2017 of the Superior Audit of the Federation (ASF) indicated that in 2017, through Popular Insurance, funding was granted so that 53 million 505 thousand 187 people accessed 348 health interventions , but after 14 years of operation, the National Commission for Social Protection in Health (CNPSS) - in charge of the program - did not have data to assess whether access to medical services was guaranteed free of charge as stipulated in the program.

￼


Insabi will provide free health services to people without social insurance from January 1

To this is added that in the same analysis of the 2017 Public Account of federalized expenditure, the ASF found that 20 states in the country paid 2,093 million 188 thousand 291 pesos in salaries and dubious expenditures with federal money labeled for health and social programs, including Popular Insurance. The data were informed at the time by SinEmbargo..."


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## AlanMexicali (Jun 1, 2011)

https://m.excelsior.com.mx/opinion/ruth-rodriguez/caos-en-el-arranque-del-insabi/1356967


"Chaos at the start of the Insabi

Ruth Rodriguez

08/01/2020

"It is considered to control the positions of health personnel in the states to avoid duplication.


The launch of the Institute of Health for Wellbeing (Insabi) has become a chaos and a headache, both for authorities, managers of local and federal hospitals, and for patients who belonged to the missing Seguro Popular.

The lack of the new rules of operation, the lack of information, the crossing of orders and the lack of guidelines is notorious in federal and state hospitals, which do not know if they have to charge or not to attend to those who had Seguro Popular, since there is no clarity of where the resources and budgets will come for such purposes.

While some federal hospitals are charging hospitalization and surgeries [ 3rd. level care] to all patients, others do not do so until they receive clear indications, but with the fear that they will deplete their budget if they are not reimbursed for the resources they are spending.

This situation contrasts with the implementation of Seguro Popular in 2004. On that occasion, the operation of the new program was worked, ironed, operated and details were refined from a year earlier, precisely to avoid the chaos that is now underway. .


Therefore, now Insabi returns control of the attention of the poorest to the federal government. And in theory that sounds great.

I say in theory because in practice the start-up of the Insabi startup is failing. If things continue like this, the Institute is going to be the worst headache, both for the authorities and for people with fewer resources that require attention to all kinds of diseases."

ALSO:
https://www.google.com.mx/amp/s/amp.milenio.com/politica/cobrara-seguro-popular-cuotas-2020-salud

"Hugo López-Gatell, Undersecretary of Health Prevention and Promotion,
after participating in a forum on obesity, he said that, in accordance with article 36 of the General Health Law, the 13 national institutes and federal hospitals are subject to obtaining recovery fees for the provision of third level services.

He explained that these are not coordinated by Insabi, but are governed by the law of the National Institutes of Health and High Specialty Hospitals. He stressed that "at the moment recovery rates are in force, but there is no authorization to increase them."

He urged the population to report improper charges and announced that an investigation will be opened for complaints at the General Hospital of Mexico; He insisted that "progressive mechanism"ÂÂ� is being promoted within the federal government project to eliminate these payments during the six-year term.

"Throughout this six-year term, which ends in 2024, it will be achieved that there is no need to charge recovery fees (in hospitals and high-specialty institutes). The specific date will be announced as we articulate this whole plan, both regulatory and financial restructuring, ÂÂ�he said." "

INSABI doesn't cover 3rd. level care - operations etc. 100 percent and patients will have to pay a recovery fee to the hospitals and doctors possibly until contracts and federal funds are gradually available possibly until 2024.


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## ojosazules11 (Nov 3, 2013)

Alan, all of the sources you are quoting say the requirement is “the INE, CURP or birth certificate”. That “or” is crucial, because that implies any one of the 3 should be valid. Both temp and permanent residents have a CURP, so that would seemingly be sufficient. 

And before people say that foreign residents shouldn’t be using Mexico’s public health care services, I’d like to point out that in Canada non-citizens who have permanent residency or even some types of temporary work permits are eligible for our universal health care system. Basic human rights aside, it’s in a country’s best interest to keep the population as healthy as possible, including prevention and early intervention while medical conditions are still treatable/manageable.


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## AlanMexicali (Jun 1, 2011)

Maybe the requirement is an IFE card which is photo ID or CURP which is not a photo ID but maybe it is both or a birth certificate. I wonder.


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## AlanMexicali (Jun 1, 2011)

ojosazules11 said:


> Alan, all of the sources you are quoting say the requirement is “the INE, CURP or birth certificate”. That “or” is crucial, because that implies any one of the 3 should be valid. Both temp and permanent residents have a CURP, so that would seemingly be sufficient.
> 
> And before people say that foreign residents shouldn’t be using Mexico’s public health care services, I’d like to point out that in Canada non-citizens who have permanent residency or even some types of temporary work permits are eligible for our universal health care system. Basic human rights aside, it’s in a country’s best interest to keep the population as healthy as possible, including prevention and early intervention while medical conditions are still treatable/manageable.


https://www.lja.mx/2020/01/el-insabi-si-permite-el-cobro-de-cuotas/

Google Translation:

"Official morning version - Jan. 9, 2020

The official version of the López Obrador press conference, disseminated by the Government of Mexico, softens the president's challenge to reporters and the contradictions between the Ministry of Health's statement, multiple complaints for service charges and the position of the President. The statement is entitled “No one should worry; The right to free medical care and medicines is guaranteed, says President AMLO ”, here the text:

President Andrés Manuel López Obrador endorsed the commitment to provide free medical care and medicines to the entire population. He recalled that the replacement of the Popular Insurance by the National Institute of Health for Wellbeing (Insabi) eliminates the requirement of the affiliation policy, so since January 1 only INE or CURP is requested when attending a consultation.

He said that about 60 percent of Mexicans do not have social security, so “the purpose is that everyone who gets sick, who needs medical care and medication, can be treated, is guaranteed the right to health.”

“People shouldn't worry. If you were enrolled in the Popular Insurance, you will continue to receive medical service, that's what this plan is for, ”he added."

This might clarify the confusing law [at least to me, obviously] as to what is required to get service from INSABI. Legal foreign residents have a CURP ID printout page.


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## lat19n (Aug 19, 2017)

It has been years now, but actually we were permanent residents and we did NOT have a CURP. Apparently someone at INM forgot to check something off on a form or something. It was simple and quick to get a CURP at some point down the line. I think a lot of 'green cards' actually have the CURP printed on them ?? We used to walk around with a laminated CURP card in our wallets but at some point that was no longer accepted and they required a letter sized printout. If I recall correctly it was important that the printout be in color ??

I've read another report from a local non-citizen who received INSABI care (free). They stated "One needs a CURP page print out and photo ID such as passport or temporary or permanent resident visa."

Finally - there sure does seem to be a lot of mention of INSABI in the news as of late. Just today it was on the front page of El Univeral (web site). There seems to be a lack of clarity as to what exactly is covered etc. I have no idea but it 'feels' like some in opposition to AMLO are picking INSABI apart (a political thing much like Obamacare).


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## AlanMexicali (Jun 1, 2011)

lat19n said:


> Finally - there sure does seem to be a lot of mention of INSABI in the news as of late. Just today it was on the front page of El Univeral (web site). There seems to be a lack of clarity as to what exactly is covered etc. I have no idea but it 'feels' like some in opposition to AMLO are picking INSABI apart (a political thing much like Obamacare).


https://www.eluniversal.com.mx/english/mexicos-new-free-healthcare-institute-spreads-confusion

There is a massive problem with INSABI which AMLO refuses to disclose it's limitations and cost to patients above the first level of care and has side stepped every inquire from the public and those directly involved in servicing patients that is big news at the moment and is a very legitimate concern and makes him look foolish.


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## AlanMexicali (Jun 1, 2011)

AlanMexicali said:


> lat19n said:
> 
> 
> > Finally - there sure does seem to be a lot of mention of INSABI in the news as of late. Just today it was on the front page of El Univeral (web site). There seems to be a lack of clarity as to what exactly is covered etc. I have no idea but it 'feels' like some in opposition to AMLO are picking INSABI apart (a political thing much like Obamacare).
> ...



https://www.eluniversal.com.mx/nacion/politica/insabi-no-dara-servicios-gratuitos-como-dijo-amlo


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## AlanMexicali (Jun 1, 2011)

https://translate.googleusercontent...700271&usg=ALkJrhiLFCFHgBGYzwucPrKhIFZlpdP9nQ


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## AlanMexicali (Jun 1, 2011)

https://translate.googleusercontent...Fg5OQpon1MDpVnJgkXbtqTQ#.Xhx9tibXHIE.whatsapp

Google Translation:


"The original sin of INSABI is not to understand that services and medications must be financed in some way. The institution has eliminated insurance charges and expanded the number of beneficiaries, without identifying additional sources of income. That is why it is cutting services.

Denmark [25 percent IVA tax], which the president uses as an example, finances 84 percent of his medical expenses with taxes and the rest with private insurance. The system is good, but far from being free it is very expensive: 10.4 percent of gross domestic product. If Mexico has a GDP of 24 billion current pesos (INEGI), a system like Denmark's would cost around 2.5 billion pesos annually. How close are we? The Secretary of Health will have a programmable budget of 128,600 million pesos in 2020, 20 times lower."


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## AlanMexicali (Jun 1, 2011)

https://lasillarota.com/amp/especia...frenk-seguro-popular-salud-imss-issste/270610

Google Translation:


"Dismantelling the Seguro Popular as proposed by President Andres Manuel Lopez Obrador and allocating the resources of the Fund for Protection against Catastrophic Expenses for other purposes would be "a catastrophe" for thousands of people receiving treatment for complex and expensive diseases, said Julio Frenk Mora, Former Secretary of Health. [creator of the Seguro Popular - Now president of the University of Miami]

One effect, I think very positive of the Seguro Popular was that with the legislation that was passed in 2003, the tax obligation of the Mexican Federal State for each person who joins the Seguro Popular was put into federal law.

Because it is a financial scheme, something that is very confusing, that people often think that it is the program to provide services and it is not, it is a mechanism that finances.

That is a line of justice, because what we had before this legislation is that there was an IMSS law and one of the ISSSTE where the Federal State obligation for each affiliated person was stipulated."

Now there is still some federal laws alloting federal tax money to states to provide healthcare to its' residents there is no more Seguro Popular so the above mentioned tax obligation is gone plus there is federal law and constitutional law that 3.5 percent of the yearly GNP be used for socialized medicine.

AMLO last year 2019 illegally reduced that to 2.5 percent, underfunded the Seguro Popular by almost 30 percent of the 2018 budget which caused turmoil in the delivery of services, laying off Dr.s, nurses, lab workers etc. and ordered just over 40 percent of the medicine requested in the previous administation's projected budget for 2019.

With less laws governing and the ones still in place being ignored the obligated expenditures incorporated into the CDMX and state health services budget is now at the whim of the federal government. In states where there was federal obligations as stated above in the quoted piece there now is a federal government using the tax money as they wish and if they are inclined use it as a weapon to get state governments to be under the control of the party in power not automonous as before."


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## xolo (May 25, 2014)

ojosazules11 said:


> Alan, all of the sources you are quoting say the requirement is “the INE, CURP or birth certificate”. That “or” is crucial, because that implies any one of the 3 should be valid. Both temp and permanent residents have a CURP, so that would seemingly be sufficient.
> 
> And before people say that foreign residents shouldn’t be using Mexico’s public health care services, I’d like to point out that in Canada non-citizens who have permanent residency or even some types of temporary work permits are eligible for our universal health care system. ...


I was offered free INSABI medical care with my Permanent Residence visa which includes my CURP. That was a single visit that I made to check-out the system.

My concern is with the system, Seguro Popular and IMSS had about the same budget last year, but Seguro Popular serves about twice the population, presumably that number will grow considerably since INSABI is free to all with basically no paperwork required, if the person is not covered by IMSS or ISSSTE. I also don't feel comfortable using a free service when I've never paid into it, but that is just my personal feeling. Being an "expat" (that word exists in Spanish, but I've never heard it used here) is predicated on relative affluence. The AMLO signature legislation did not include a funding mechanism.

Where I live they are about to complete a brand-new, large IMSS hospital. For me, that was a factor in my decision to stay with IMSS.


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## ojosazules11 (Nov 3, 2013)

xolo said:


> I was offered free INSABI medical care with my Permanent Residence visa which includes my CURP. That was a single visit that I made to check-out the system.
> 
> My concern is with the system, Seguro Popular and IMSS had about the same budget last year, but Seguro Popular serves about twice the population, presumably that number will grow considerably since INSABI is free to all with basically no paperwork required, if the person is not covered by IMSS or ISSSTE. I also don't feel comfortable using a free service when I've never paid into it, but that is just my personal feeling. Being an "expat" (that word exists in Spanish, but I've never heard it used here) is predicated on relative affluence. The AMLO signature legislation did not include a funding mechanism.
> 
> Where I live they are about to complete a brand-new, large IMSS hospital. For me, that was a factor in my decision to stay with IMSS.


I agree with much of what you say. I personally would feel the same about wanting to contribute financially to whatever service I’m using, and if I’m not paying taxes in that country, having a payment mechanism, as exists when signing up for IMSS, allows for that.

Certainly in the Canadian system most permanent residents have arrived when they are still of working age and so pay into the system through taxes. Although older (retired) people who are sponsored by family members are also covered. Because we have universal health coverage, it covers everyone who has residency or citizenship, cradle to grave, whether or not you’ve paid into it. Canada truly does treat health care as a basic right, not as something to be earned. And it’s one tier, same system for everyone, not an underfunded one for the poorest, an “ok” one for most and deluxe for the wealthiest. It’s not perfect, and there are certainly areas of the country that are underfunded (e.g. Quebec), and understaffed (especially more rural regions which has more to do with doctor preference for living in larger urban settings, because there are plenty of financial incentives to lure doctors to rural areas). Nevertheless I think Canada’s system is one of the better models, both as a doctor working in the system and as a patient. 

Of course it gets down to adequate funding. I hope INSABI gets through its growing pains and can improve access to medical care for the majority of those Mexicans who aren’t covered by IMSS. The number of expat residents who will use it are likely just a drop in the proverbial bucket.


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## AlanMexicali (Jun 1, 2011)

https://translate.googleusercontent...700271&usg=ALkJrhiNE3p1z5mPMGrNSZJjcR-rn_bKGg


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