# Visa Refused



## jack123 (Aug 7, 2012)

Soo as the title says, we've had our visa refused. I was wondering what the process for appealing was? I heard that its possible to appeal in person on England? Is this recommended or is the paper based appeal better?

Thanks


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## Harun (Jan 27, 2013)

I'm sorry to hear about your refusal. That's something I am dreading tbh.

They should've given you a reason/list why they refused your visa.

Hopefully Leanna or another mod will answer your question swiftly


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## Leanna (Oct 22, 2012)

jack123 said:


> Soo as the title says, we've had our visa refused. I was wondering what the process for appealing was? I heard that its possible to appeal in person on England? Is this recommended or is the paper based appeal better?
> 
> Thanks


Hi Jack,

I'm sorry to hear about your refusal. If you can, could you write out the exact wording of the refusal paper they would've returned to you with your documentation. Once we have the exact wording we will be able to determine whether you can appeal or what to do from there. Thanks.


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## jack123 (Aug 7, 2012)

The main reason for refusal is mainly that the restaurant that I work at is registered under a different name to the one we provided. The restaurant is owned by my father and we didn't really know the procedures for this so when he wrote the letter confirming employment he forgot to add the company registration number as well which led to the immigration officer doubting the existence of the restaurant, which is understandable! They also had doubts about my part time job with a small construction company because I had a constant wage where normally is varies greatly. This one surprises me as I'm not sure why it can't be constant, it's only part time and I work on a fixed two day a week basis regardless of any other factors.

While all that makes sense to me, one that confuses me is the last paragraph which states that while they notice that I propose to live with my parents for a while, there are no proposals or evidence to show that we would be accommodated at any time in the near future at our own expense in adequate accommodation, the immigration solicitor claims this is a follow up from them doubting my salary. Otherwise this makes no sense to me as surely getting our own place is something to do once she's settled down etc??

Help on the matter would be greatly appreciated and information on how the appealing process goes would be fantastic. I was told I could travel to Leicester to appeal in person to a court though that sounds some what dramatic??


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## WestCoastCanadianGirl (Mar 17, 2012)

jack123 said:


> The main reason for refusal is mainly that the restaurant that I work at is registered under a different name to the one we provided. The restaurant is owned by my father and we didn't really know the procedures for this so when he wrote the letter confirming employment he forgot to add the company registration number as well which led to the immigration officer doubting the existence of the restaurant, which is understandable! They also had doubts about my part time job with a small construction company because I had a constant wage where normally is varies greatly. This one surprises me as I'm not sure why it can't be constant, it's only part time and I work on a fixed two day a week basis regardless of any other factors.
> 
> While all that makes sense to me, one that confuses me is the last paragraph which states that while they notice that I propose to live with my parents for a while, there are no proposals or evidence to show that we would be accommodated at any time in the near future at our own expense in adequate accommodation, the immigration solicitor claims this is a follow up from them doubting my salary. Otherwise this makes no sense to me as surely getting our own place is something to do once she's settled down etc??
> 
> Help on the matter would be greatly appreciated and information on how the appealing process goes would be fantastic. I was told I could travel to Leicester to appeal in person to a court though that sounds some what dramatic??


Are you able to copy out the _exact_ wording of the letter that they've sent that specifies the rationale behind their decision? Once we have this information, we can better offer advice as to what your options may be and how you _might_ proceed.

Please understand that we are only applicants and their loved ones who have "been there, done that" and not representatives of the Home Office or the UKBA, and as such cannot give advice as to how the HO _will_ interpret and apply the immigration law in any specific case... the Home Office has a specific mandate (to drastically reduce net migration to the UK by the next general election) and we can only read their regulations and advise our fellow candidates to do the same and follow the published guidance notes and seek legal counsel as appropriate.

Sadly, since the new immigration laws are barely 6 months old, we have very limited knowledge and experience as to how the July 9th rules are being applied beyond the given fact that the new rules are exponentially more strict when compared to the rules that they replaced... that said, as time progresses and more and more people relay their experiences in our little forum, we are quickly gaining a better understanding as to how the UKBA is applying these new rules (there appears to be a pattern of "zero tolerance" for leniency in regards to certain aspects of the application... financial/employment requirement, for example) and what we must do to try to help each other to avoid falling into the pitfalls that may lead to a refused application.


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## jack123 (Aug 7, 2012)

Here's the text word for word...

"I note that you have provided documents which purport to demonstrate that your husband has two jobs in the UK and that he started both of them in May 2012. In the case of his full-time employment it is with ****** Restaurant. However, I note that the employer's letter does not provide a company registration number nor is there a record of ***** with Companies House (as researched on their website). Furthermore, I note that owner of this stated restaurant appears to be your husbands father. These facts combined fail to satisfy me that your husband is genuinely employed at this restaurant or that it is a registered company."

"At your husband's part-time job with **** he is described as a casual worker on a two days a week flexible basis with variable hours. As such, it would appear that this employment is on an ad-hoc basis and it is not clear how a job of this kind in the construction industry (requiring variable hours of employment) would pay an identical amount of salary each month."

"Given all the above facts I am not satisfied that your husband's income is genuinely as stated or that he therefore meets the financial requirements of these rules. I therefore refuse your application under paragraph EC-P.1.1(d) of Appendix FM of the Immigration Rules. (E-ECP.3.1)"

"I note that you are proposing to live with your husband and your in-laws at their address. There are no proposals or evidence that you would be accommodated at any time in the near future at your own expense in adequate accommodation. I am therefore not satisfied that there will be adequately accommodation without recourse to public funds. I therefore refuse your application under paragraph EC-P.1.1(d) of Appendix FM of the Immigration Rules (E-ECP.3.1)"


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## jack123 (Aug 7, 2012)

So just to clarify a little, me and my father made a mistake by forgetting that the restaurant is registered under a different company name which completely explains that point to me. 

As for the part time job, I turn up and work two days a week and the flexible part simply means till we're finished really! 

The last paragraph is the one that puzzles me, if it is simply as the immigration solicitor puts it that its just carrying on from doubtful salary then that's fine. Otherwise I'm not sure how you're to plan new accommodation before the Mrs have even arrived let alone settle down?


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## Harun (Jan 27, 2013)

jack123 said:


> "I note that you are proposing to live with your husband and your in-laws at their address. There are no proposals or evidence that you would be accommodated at any time in the near future at your own expense in adequate accommodation. I am therefore not satisfied that there will be adequately accommodation without recourse to public funds. I therefore refuse your application under paragraph EC-P.1.1(d) of Appendix FM of the Immigration Rules (E-ECP.3.1)"


That's freaking outrageous! So what they're basically saying is that if you don't have your own place then don't bother applying? Do they know how hard it is getting on the property ladder these days? Everyone I know is bloody renting because saving for a mortgage deposit is so freaking hard!

These new UKBA rules have clearly been realized by MI6 because everything seems to fall in on its self (evil genius) Applying now is like a paradox. Completely rigged if you ask me.


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## jack123 (Aug 7, 2012)

Harun said:


> That's freaking outrageous! So what they're basically saying is that if you don't have your own place then don't bother applying? Do they know how hard it is getting on the property ladder these days? Everyone I know is bloody renting because saving for a mortgage deposit is so freaking hard!
> 
> These new UKBA rules have clearly been realized by MI6 because everything seems to fall in on its self (evil genius) Applying now is like a paradox. Completely rigged if you ask me.


That's why I'm hoping that they're only saying that because they claim they aren't certain of my employment and therefore my salary.

Sudden thought, by what he says about working for my father, what's wrong with that??


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## 2farapart (Aug 18, 2011)

Harun said:


> That's freaking outrageous! So what they're basically saying is that if you don't have your own place then don't bother applying? Do they know how hard it is getting on the property ladder these days? Everyone I know is bloody renting because saving for a mortgage deposit is so freaking hard!


No, that's not what they're saying at all. What they're saying is that they believe Jack123's financial evidence doesn't seem to be genuine or sufficient, and given that his initial plans are to live with family, this doubtful wage is not going to allow the couple to seek their own accommodation and eventual independence. 

As we often stress, when your accommodation entails living with family in the short term, it is usually a good idea that the UK sponsor mentions in a letter your eventual plans. Remember that, under the new rules, importance is placed mostly on financial independence. Staying with family is permitted, but equally UKBA knows that things can happen where that situation ceases to be available, so they also want to ensure you would have the means to seek your own accommodation (whether bought or rented) before they will grant a visa.


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## Harun (Jan 27, 2013)

Let's just hope it was a one off query regarding your employment and salary because if it's not then most of us are doomed at the first hurdle 

I know, that's very strange. In my opinion working for your own father is even better. Really they're just taking the mickey now with these refusals.

One minute they're saying that you must meet the £1,550/£18,600 threshold then they're saying we don't like the way you're earning that threshold. Come on, give us a break! Of course people will work two jobs to meet this new asinine requirement. They'd work 3 jobs if needed. Like I said before it's like a paradox. 

I do hope they reconsider your application when you appeal because that's harsh.


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## lessenich (Sep 28, 2012)

jack123 said:


> That's why I'm hoping that they're only saying that because they claim they aren't certain of my employment and therefore my salary.
> 
> Sudden thought, by what he says about working for my father, what's wrong with that??


Fo you get slip from payroll officially or just printed payslip ?


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## 2farapart (Aug 18, 2011)

jack123 said:


> So just to clarify a little, me and my father made a mistake by forgetting that the restaurant is registered under a different company name which completely explains that point to me.
> 
> As for the part time job, I turn up and work two days a week and the flexible part simply means till we're finished really!
> 
> The last paragraph is the one that puzzles me, if it is simply as the immigration solicitor puts it that its just carrying on from doubtful salary then that's fine. Otherwise I'm not sure how you're to plan new accommodation before the Mrs have even arrived let alone settle down?


Yes, it all basically comes down to the fact that you were unable to sufficiently prove that you were correctly employed by an existing business. Without sufficient salary, UKBA cannot then see how you will ultimately be able to seek your own accommodation (so the accommodation refusal is based on the dubious pay evidence rather than being a fail in its own right). 

So the way from here is to get all the paperwork straight, starting with your father's business. I don't have a huge amount of knowledge regarding owning a business, but I imagine the first thing to be done is register the correct name with Companies House, and that way you can provide the restaurant name, its registration number, even a photograph of the place if necessary. Given that this might take time (as I said, I don't know much about it), you might run out of time to appeal (and in any case there is argument to say UKBA didn't make an incorrect decision based on the evidence you provided, but that your evidence was wrong, so an appeal might not be of any help to you).

The problem with your second job is that it states variable hours. It's true to say that it does look a bit odd that an employer states 'variable hours' but pays you a constant weekly rate. The other problem with a 'variable rate' job is that UKBA is not just concerned about what you earnt already, but that you will continue to earn this over the course of the visa. 'Variable hours' iimplies that your employer could, next month, state that they only need you for ONE day a week from now on. As a result, it would have been better really if your employer had been better able to clarify the hours they expect you to work each week (or at least a minimum contracted hours). 

As an employee for both businesses, you need to ensure you have genuine payslips and P60 proving both, together with bank statements, but before you reapply it would be a good idea if your father could sort out the issue with the restaurant registration, and you could clarify a better letter of employment (or revised contract) from your secondary employer.

Finally, set out your long term plans for accommodating your partner. It's fine to stay with family, but don't forget UKBA are placing much more emphasis on your finanancial independence, so setting out that you plan to seek a tenancy in [......] area for [.......] rent (or thereabouts), will go a long way to help. You could even include a couple of property particulars you think you'd typically consider once your partner has joined you.


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## jack123 (Aug 7, 2012)

2farapart said:


> Yes, it all basically comes down to the fact that you were unable to sufficiently prove that you were correctly employed by an existing business. Without sufficient salary, UKBA cannot then see how you will ultimately be able to seek your own accommodation (so the accommodation refusal is based on the dubious pay evidence rather than being a fail in its own right).
> 
> So the way from here is to get all the paperwork straight, starting with your father's business. I don't have a huge amount of knowledge regarding owning a business, but I imagine the first thing to be done is register the correct name with Companies House, and that way you can provide the restaurant name, its registration number, even a photograph of the place if necessary. Given that this might take time (as I said, I don't know much about it), you might run out of time to appeal (and in any case there is argument to say UKBA didn't make an incorrect decision based on the evidence you provided, but that your evidence was wrong, so an appeal might not be of any help to you).
> 
> ...


Ah the registered name shouldn't be a problem, it really is a case of saying that its "Company A" rather than "Company B" which surely isn't that much of a problem? So should I get my part time job boss to rewrite the contract wording then? As it's always twice a week for my salary and the flexible hours were only because the jobs differ in length each day really, I was after all being paid by the day rather than hour?


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## 2farapart (Aug 18, 2011)

jack123 said:


> Ah the registered name shouldn't be a problem, it really is a case of saying that its "Company A" rather than "Company B" which surely isn't that much of a problem?


I don't know about whether the procedure is a problem (I have no knowledge at all about this) but it needs to be done because UKBA's searches clearly extend to querying the business with Companies House. When they didn't find it, alarm bells started ringing at that point.



jack123 said:


> So should I get my part time job boss to rewrite the contract wording then? As it's always twice a week for my salary and the flexible hours were only because the jobs differ in length each day really, I was after all being paid by the day rather than hour?


Yes, on all those points really. Your employer needs to make it clear that you are paid by the day (not per hour), what your day rate is, and how many days per week minimum you are required to work. It would help enormously if your contract could be revised to reflect this, and that a letter from your employer clarifies that you will be continuing to work on these terms. These things should assure UKBA that you have a minimum earning potential which, together with your restaurant work, should help you meet the evidential requirements this time.

In reapplying, you could include a letter to state that you previously described your job as being variable hours, but that meant you might be expected to work additional hours in the day if a job required it, but that your rate of pay per day would still be the same regardless, and this is why your pay is constant.


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## jack123 (Aug 7, 2012)

2farapart said:


> I don't know about whether the procedure is a problem (I have no knowledge at all about this) but it needs to be done because UKBA's searches clearly extend to querying the business with Companies House. When they didn't find it, alarm bells started ringing at that point.
> 
> 
> Yes, on all those points really. Your employer needs to make it clear that you are paid by the day (not per hour), what your day rate is, and how many days per week minimum you are required to work. It would help enormously if your contract could be revised to reflect this, and that a letter from your employer clarifies that you will be continuing to work on these terms. These things should assure UKBA that you have a minimum earning potential which, together with your restaurant work, should help you meet the evidential requirements this time.
> ...


Whilst I understand their concerns, a simple mix up surely would be easy to resolve since the restaurant does exist and I am employed there! So I just file for an appeal and amend the problems?


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## 2farapart (Aug 18, 2011)

jack123 said:


> Whilst I understand their concerns, a simple mix up surely would be easy to resolve since the restaurant does exist and I am employed there! So I just file for an appeal and amend the problems?


That might help with the company name (though I'm not 100% sure on that because the company in its correct name was not registered), but I don't think it will help for your second job because no new evidence is considered in an appeal, and you would need to supply a revised contract and employer's letter in order to establish that you are actually paid by the day and proof that the hours you work per day bears no relevance to how much you're paid.

To be honest, both areas are grey. The point of appeal is for you to prove UKBA was _wrong_ in their decision which, if the supporting evidence was correct when you applied, they would have been. The problem is that your evidence was not sufficient/correct with the evidence you supplied, and in an appeal they won't consider any new evidence. However, it doesn't actually cost anything to try an appeal, so you could certainly try it, but waiting time can be rather long.


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## jack123 (Aug 7, 2012)

2farapart said:


> That might help with the company name (though I'm not 100% sure on that because the company in its correct name was not registered), but I don't think it will help for your second job because no new evidence is considered in an appeal, and you would need to supply a revised contract and employer's letter in order to establish that you are actually paid by the day and proof that the hours you work per day bears no relevance to how much you're paid.
> 
> To be honest, both areas are grey. The point of appeal is for you to prove UKBA was _wrong_ in their decision which, if the supporting evidence was correct when you applied, they would have been. The problem is that your evidence was not sufficient/correct with the evidence you supplied, and in an appeal they won't consider any new evidence. However, it doesn't actually cost anything to try an appeal, so you could certainly try it, but waiting time can be rather long.


I've read that its £80 for a paper based appeal and £140 for an oral appeal? Wow... I'm not sure what to say, I'm completely new to this so I would have thought they'd let you amend some details. So by the sounds of it, an appeal would be pointless and that I'd be best off applying all over again?


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## 2farapart (Aug 18, 2011)

jack123 said:


> I've read that its £80 for a paper based appeal and £140 for an oral appeal? Wow... I'm not sure what to say, I'm completely new to this so I would have thought they'd let you amend some details. So by the sounds of it, an appeal would be pointless and that I'd be best off applying all over again?


I don't know to be honest because appeals are far beyond my knowledge.

If it was me and I was in a hurry, I wouldn't waste time appealing, I'd accept I'd made mistakes and next time make sure the documentation is water-tight. However, at the same time paying for a whole new application is a HUGE amount of money, so I think I'd be tempted to try an appeal anyway.


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## jack123 (Aug 7, 2012)

So can anyone tell me about the whole appealing process?? As in what happens and how long it could take? All I know so far is that there is a paper appeal and oral appeal but I know nothing beyond that!


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## cc9 (Oct 29, 2012)

Hi I can only tell you of my personal experience so far. Once you receive your refusal notice you have 28 days to lodge an appeal, either paper (£80) or an oral appeal (£140). 
You should have received an appeal form with your refusal notice along with information on lodging an appeal. This form should be completed and sent to the appeal tribunal along with any supporting evidence. This can be done online.
I believe that then your appeal is sent to the embassy that originally refused your visa for the ECM to review. If you choose to have an oral hearing and the ECM upholds the original decision your appeal will then be lodged with the first tier tribunal and a hearing date will be set.
I believe the wait to have an appeal heard by the tribunal can be anything from 6 months to a year.

I am at the stage of waiting for the ECM to review my appeal so can give you no information relating to the later stages of appeal.
I am not sure if this is of any help to you.
Good luck with your appeal


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## jack123 (Aug 7, 2012)

cc9 said:


> Hi I can only tell you of my personal experience so far. Once you receive your refusal notice you have 28 days to lodge an appeal, either paper (£80) or an oral appeal (£140).
> You should have received an appeal form with your refusal notice along with information on lodging an appeal. This form should be completed and sent to the appeal tribunal along with any supporting evidence. This can be done online.
> I believe that then your appeal is sent to the embassy that originally refused your visa for the ECM to review. If you choose to have an oral hearing and the ECM upholds the original decision your appeal will then be lodged with the first tier tribunal and a hearing date will be set.
> I believe the wait to have an appeal heard by the tribunal can be anything from 6 months to a year.
> ...


Thanks, any help is appreciated. Though if the dates are 6 months to a year... its almost easier to start a new application... So would you submit your revised documents etc to the country of your spouse or do you submit it some where in england??


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## jack123 (Aug 7, 2012)

... and is there any chance of being able to have my wife come over on a visitor visa while we appeal? I've already not seen her for close enough to seven months... if those times are correct, it could be nearly two years before I see her again...


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## cc9 (Oct 29, 2012)

jack123 said:


> Thanks, any help is appreciated. Though if the dates are 6 months to a year... its almost easier to start a new application... So would you submit your revised documents etc to the country of your spouse or do you submit it some where in england??


My husbands refusal was extremely complicated so we lodged our appeal through a solicitor but I believe the appeal is lodged to the tribunal in the UK. Go to www.justice.gov.uk for more information. However you should have received information with your refusal. 
Also I believe you can not supply new evidence for the appeal. You can supply missing documents or evidence which you omitted from your original application but you cannot supply evidence which is dated after your application.
Although this is only my understanding of the rules.


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## cc9 (Oct 29, 2012)

jack123 said:


> ... and is there any chance of being able to have my wife come over on a visitor visa while we appeal? I've already not seen her for close enough to seven months... if those times are correct, it could be nearly two years before I see her again...



Are you not in a position to visit her during this time????
If you can afford to re apply with all the correct documentation then you should. This may be a much faster option.


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## jack123 (Aug 7, 2012)

cc9 said:


> My husbands refusal was extremely complicated so we lodged our appeal through a solicitor but I believe the appeal is lodged to the tribunal in the UK. Go to Justice.gov.uk for more information. However you should have received information with your refusal.
> Also I believe you can not supply new evidence for the appeal. You can supply missing documents or evidence which you omitted from your original application but you cannot supply evidence which is dated after your application.
> Although this is only my understanding of the rules.


Well, I'm not sure if you've read whats been said thus far so I'll outline it, by accident we wrote the wrong name for my work, we wrote the name that the company trades as rather than the name. So I'm not sure whether that's new evidence really? 

The other point that failed us was the wording of the letter of employment with my part time job where I get paid by the day but their interpretation was that I would be paid by the hour.


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## jack123 (Aug 7, 2012)

Regarding the point of going to see her, plane tickets and accommodation will be extremely costly and its likely that I'll only be able to go for a week or so. Which is why I'm hoping she'd be able to come over on a visitor visa whilst the process happens....


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## cc9 (Oct 29, 2012)

jack123 said:


> Well, I'm not sure if you've read whats been said thus far so I'll outline it, by accident we wrote the wrong name for my work, we wrote the name that the company trades as rather than the name. So I'm not sure whether that's new evidence really?
> 
> The other point that failed us was the wording of the letter of employment with my part time job where I get paid by the day but their interpretation was that I would be paid by the hour.


Yes I had read your previous post. As I said I can only give you my personal experience so I can't advise you on whether or not an appeal would be successful. It is a shame that no matter what route you take you will be apart from your wife for more months than u would wish


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## jack123 (Aug 7, 2012)

cc9 said:


> Yes I had read your previous post. As I said I can only give you my personal experience so I can't advise you on whether or not an appeal would be successful. It is a shame that no matter what route you take you will be apart from your wife for more months than u would wish


Ah, don't worry, I wasn't asking whether you thought it'd be successful, rather, would that even count as new evidence rather than just rectifying evidence that was wrongly stated?


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## jack123 (Aug 7, 2012)

I'm now considering forgetting the appeal and just submitting a new application. Question is, do they have any issues with this? I'll practically be submitting 99.9% of the same documents, will they question why I didn't lodge an appeal or do they not care?


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## cc9 (Oct 29, 2012)

jack123 said:


> Ah, don't worry, I wasn't asking whether you thought it'd be successful, rather, would that even count as new evidence rather than just rectifying evidence that was wrongly stated?


Have you thought about speaking to a solicitor??? Some good immigration solicitors offer a free initial consultation. It couldn't do any harm to enquire


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## jack123 (Aug 7, 2012)

... We have an immigration solicitor, who in my opinion managed to overlook some very obvious missing points in our application. I ask them anyway, though I figure asking different people and gathering as much information as possible is the best route...


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## cc9 (Oct 29, 2012)

jack123 said:


> ... We have an immigration solicitor, who in my opinion managed to overlook some very obvious missing points in our application. I ask them anyway, though I figure asking different people and gathering as much information as possible is the best route...


Yeah that's why this forum is so good, you hear from real people and their actual experiences. I wish u all the best whatever you decide and keep us posted 
Oh and someone else might still weigh in with their appeal experiences


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## jack123 (Aug 7, 2012)

I'm honestly thankful for having stumbled across this website and whatever help people offer, its been brilliant! I really am curious now whether there are any problems with just submitting another application instead though?


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## WestCoastCanadianGirl (Mar 17, 2012)

jack123 said:


> I'm now considering forgetting the appeal and just submitting a new application. Question is, do they have any issues with this? I'll practically be submitting 99.9% of the same documents, will they question why I didn't lodge an appeal or do they not care?


They likely won't care that you don't appeal, since you will have to pay the full fee again to do so, whilst they'd only get the applicable appeal fee if you appealed the decision. 

What they *will* care about and what you should take under advisement is the fact that you have a refusal on file. Because of the refusal a) you _will *not*_ qualify to lodge a priority application (you don't state where the application was lodged, so I am assuming it was via the NYC office where priority applications are accepted) and b) the second application attempt will be more closely scrutinised than the first and as a result you can be assured that it will take longer for the EO to render a decision than the other non-priority applications that they receive at the same time as yours.


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## jack123 (Aug 7, 2012)

WestCoastCanadianGirl said:


> They likely won't care that you don't appeal, since you will have to pay the full fee again to do so, whilst they'd only get the applicable appeal fee if you appealed the decision.
> 
> What they *will* care about and what you should take under advisement is the fact that you have a refusal on file. Because of the refusal a) you _will *not*_ qualify to lodge a priority application (you don't state where the application was lodged, so I am assuming it was via the NYC office where priority applications are accepted) and b) the second application attempt will be more closely scrutinised than the first and as a result you can be assured that it will take longer for the EO to render a decision than the other non-priority applications that they receive at the same time as yours.


Hi, I really am clueless about this, what is a priority application? I left it to my wife and the immigration solicitor to submit the documents so I have no idea about that area. They submitted the application at some border agency office in Beijing, that's all I know really!

I just can't believe all this trouble was from some ridiculous errors. Would anyone be able to suggest which route would be better for this situation then? A brand new application or an appeal?


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## jack123 (Aug 7, 2012)

Even if you do have a refusal to your file, as long as all your documents are correct and present surely that shouldn't make a difference?


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## WestCoastCanadianGirl (Mar 17, 2012)

Sorry... I thought that perhaps you had applied in the USA where they have priority applications... the New York office is the only hub that offers priority processing. As you are applying in Beijing, there is no priority service, so please disregard what I said about not being eligible for priority service. 

Yes, it's true that as long as you have all of your paperwork correct and present, there shouldn't be any problem, but because there is a refusal on file, the ECO will be examining everything in your application more closely than in your original application. 

This more intense examination of your documents takes time, and it IS possible to get your application approved, but you cannot depend on your application being adjudicated within the timeframe given on the UKBA's website... i.e. if the website says that the estimated processing time for settlement applications is 25 days, your application will very likely be _more than_ 25 days, and so you will have to be patient. 

The good news in the situation is that while you do have a refusal on file, it doesn't mean that your new application will automatically be refused as well. Be sure to correct the deficiencies that the ECO used to refuse your original application and apply again and chances are good that your application will be approved... we can't say "yes for sure you _will_ be approved," as we are not ECOs but by correcting the problems that they point out to you, your application stands a better chance at success. 

Good luck to you!


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Remember also that correcting the reason(s) for refusal doesn't in itself lead to a successful application next time. Your whole case will be examined from scratch, and any change in circumstance, or change in the rules or the way they are implemented, may mean you can still face a further refusal.


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## jack123 (Aug 7, 2012)

Also, I'm not sure about some of the rules here but I've been working at my current jobs for around 7 months now, I seem to remember it said I'd need to work at the same job for 6 months. Now with that in mind, would I be able to change jobs and not affect the visa?


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

jack123 said:


> Also, I'm not sure about some of the rules here but I've been working at my current jobs for around 7 months now, I seem to remember it said I'd need to work at the same job for 6 months. Now with that in mind, would I be able to change jobs and not affect the visa?


If you change job with the *same *employer, the six-month clock isn't reset, but if you get a job working for someone else, you will have to stay in that job for 6 months before you can apply, or apply when your total income from two jobs in the past year comes to £18,600 (Category B).


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## jack123 (Aug 7, 2012)

Joppa said:


> If you change job with the *same *employer, the six-month clock isn't reset, but if you get a job working for someone else, you will have to stay in that job for 6 months before you can apply, or apply when your total income from two jobs in the past year comes to £18,600 (Category B).


Ok thanks, would that apply for if I submit an appeal? I've submitted my application after 6 months with one job, could I now change jobs whilst the appeal processes? Also I've just had a sudden worrying thought, its about the £18,600 sum, is a year counted under financial year, calender year or just the time frame of a year? Since I started this job in May I could fulfill neither of these?


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

jack123 said:


> Ok thanks, would that apply for if I submit an appeal? I've submitted my application after 6 months with one job, could I now change jobs whilst the appeal processes? Also I've just had a sudden worrying thought, its about the £18,600 sum, is a year counted under financial year, calender year or just the time frame of a year? Since I started this job in May I could fulfill neither of these?


On what grounds are you appealing? If it's about financial requirement, remember you cannot submit any new materials, only a reconsideration of materials already submitted. 
A year is worked out from the date of original application and going back 12 months when talking about your actual income. If it's about your current and future income, in the 12 months starting from the date of application.


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## jack123 (Aug 7, 2012)

I'm awfully confused now, my immigration solicitor is saying our best bet is to appeal. I suppose our appeal is against our own fault to submit the proper documentation e.g. my employment letter where the company registration was missing. The points that led to the refusal seem to be made up of a wrongly written name and a misunderstanding of how my salary is paid for my second job.

So would highlighting the actual company name rather than trading name and explaining that my wage is actually paid per day count as new evidence? To further confuse me, I called up one of the courts that handles immigration and told her about our situation to ask about new evidence and she said something along the lines of.. "of course you need to provide new evidence, otherwise what would you appeal with?'. All things considered I'm left so awfully confused here...


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## Harun (Jan 27, 2013)

Joppa said:


> If you change job with the *same *employer, the six-month clock isn't reset, but if you get a job working for someone else, you will have to stay in that job for 6 months before you can apply, or apply when your total income from two jobs in the past year comes to £18,600 (Category B).


Joppa,

I'm planning to apply in March, should I just hang till end of fiscal year which wouldn't be far off and produce my P60 along with the pay slips/Bank statements. It would look more credible don't you think?

I work Mon-Fri and have taken up a new job recently (weekend). How would I present this in my application? Send 12 months (52 weeks) of pay slips of my normal job then pay slips from my new job which will be only 2 months worth as well? 

Another thing, do I get two P60's? Now that I have another job?


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## jack123 (Aug 7, 2012)

I've had a read around and new evidence is when the material post dates the refusal. Whereas evidence which is used in relation to submitted documents in order to verify your claims are fine. So in my case the company registry documents showing that the restaurant I work at does exist and an explanation of how I'm actually paid for my part time job should be fine?


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Supplying missing documents isn't new evidence. New evidence is, having falied the financial requirement, you then turn around to say you now have a new job paying more.


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## jack123 (Aug 7, 2012)

Joppa said:


> Supplying missing documents isn't new evidence. New evidence is, having falied the financial requirement, you then turn around to say you now have a new job paying more.


Ahh so the company registry document and some explanation of the part time salary should be fine


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