# Best and worst



## Lanason (Sep 1, 2009)

I am interested to see the best 3 reasons about living in South Africa and the worst 3. 

So please give me your lists 

I live in Egypt and posted this on the Egypt forum as well and will compare the results 
May be interesting 

Top ad bottom of Africa !!!


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## Lanason (Sep 1, 2009)

So it's a bit quiet in South Africa at the moment then.


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## Johanna (Apr 13, 2009)

Three best reasons:
Great people
Beautiful country ( world in one country)
Weather

3 worst:
Crime
Houses not built for weather
Bad service from governmental departments


My opinion


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## 2fargone (Jun 14, 2011)

Johanna said:


> Three best reasons:
> Great people
> Beautiful country ( world in one country)
> Weather
> ...


I agree with you 100% houses not built for weather. My apartment is freezing in the winter. The walls are cold to touch. And boiling in the summer.


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## 2fargone (Jun 14, 2011)

Best
I have found it very easy to make friends here. People are very friendly.

There is so much to do in within an hour drive of Cape Town. There is truly something for everyone here.

The summer months are awesome.

Worst
Crime It's really getting out of hand.

Inflation prices are getting crazy expensive!! Electricity is out of this world expensive. Clothing prices are crazy expensive!! 

People are not paid what they are worth in the job market. That is just my opinion. But I find the pay here very low.


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## Native Texan (Apr 29, 2011)

From my perspective, I enjoy most:
1. Wonderful people
2. Worlds best wildlife and nature parks
3. Lower cost of living (compared to what I pay for the same in the U.S. for housing, electricity, etc.)
Worst:
1. Confused and to a lagre part, inept government agencies.
2. An atmosphere of fear of crime in many people.
3. It's a long way from the West, where my family lives. 

I know crime is on everyones list but I have not been negatively affected by it but realise I could be, as anyone else, at any time. In the USA I was personaly affected by crime, friends killed, 3 times, car stolen, twice, robbed , twice and there has been a strong trend of loss of individual freedoms by the current government, it is almost ANC like in its leaning.


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## Johanna (Apr 13, 2009)

Native Texan said:


> From my perspective, I enjoy most:
> 1. Wonderful people
> 2. Worlds best wildlife and nature parks
> 3. Lower cost of living (compared to what I pay for the same in the U.S. for housing, electricity, etc.)
> ...


I have to echo Native Texan's sentiment regarding crime, I have not been affected by it in a bad way, have had two break ins in SA, but also had three in 11 years in the UK.

It is however something everyone seems to talk about?
Cost of living lower than UK too.
Interesting thread Lanason.


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## 2fargone (Jun 14, 2011)

Native Texan said:


> From my perspective, I enjoy most:
> 1. Wonderful people
> 2. Worlds best wildlife and nature parks
> 3. Lower cost of living (compared to what I pay for the same in the U.S. for housing, electricity, etc.)
> ...


Number 3 best it really depends on where you are in the USA and where you are in South Africa. I have found Houses and Apartments to be very expensive for what they are. When I first moved here 5 years ago they were much more reasonable. 
And electricity it's just about the same for what my friends pay in the USA for what I pay here. 

I agree with you Number 3 worst. It's not easy to travel to visit family. You can't just hop over to visit for the day.


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## Little Mizz Polar Bear (Oct 8, 2010)

For me....

Best:
1. Friendly people
1. beautiful country
2. cheap food and clothes.....come over for a visit last year for the first time in 10 years from Canada and I couldn't believe how much cheaper food and clothers are, here in Canada it is much more exspensive.

worst:
1. crime.
2. I didn't see a future for my kids.
3. government services.


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## ikimbrell (Jul 30, 2012)

My wife and I are thinking about moving to South Africa in 36 months from the US. With crime and government services being the common issues, I am curious how bad those two issues were 3 years ago. Have they gotten worse, stayed the same, or gotten better? I am curious what the trend is and we might expect 36 months from now.


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## Frappuccionfan (Aug 9, 2012)

Lanason said:


> I am interested to see the best 3 reasons about living in South Africa and the worst 3.
> 
> So please give me your lists
> 
> ...


Hi Adrian,

For me the best reason living in South Africa is Africa itself and all opportunities, the nature and the wildlife and the kindness and not taking things to serious

on the other hand I've difficulties to get a work permit, I'm not able to use my bike for everyday transport and I'm far away from my family and friends.

I hope these answers help, please let me know if you need more and about the results!
Kind regards,
Anne


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## vegasboy (Apr 28, 2010)

ikimbrell said:


> My wife and I are thinking about moving to South Africa in 36 months from the US. With crime and government services being the common issues, I am curious how bad those two issues were 3 years ago. Have they gotten worse, stayed the same, or gotten better? I am curious what the trend is and we might expect 36 months from now.


 Let me give you an idea. My house is in an affluent area of the northern suburbs in Cape Town. Here is last nights crime report for a radius of 2 streets I received and posted on my FB profile today: 

"Lot's of activity very near to my house last night: Received this report this morning: "For your info: D'Secure night supervisor reported the following. 1 break-in Coetzer str, 1 break-in Andrag str, 1 attempted break-in Andrag str, 2 x Attempted break-ins Ruitershoogte str. All of this between 24:00 til 02:00. Two black males spotted and chased by AR and SAPS. One resident in Ruitershoogte saw the two black males jumping his fence as the outdoor sensors activated."

Where is it going to end? One person on our forum suggested that we "double" our resident patrol service. Huh? And then we triple it and so on and so on. This is now over and above SAPS and about 6 AR companies patrolling our streets at night. 

To answer your question, it is getting worse by the day. If it wasn't for the fact that I have a second home in the US where I can stay on and off, it would have driven me crazy.


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## 2fargone (Jun 14, 2011)

I agree Vegasboy it's not getting any better. Been here for 5 years and I don't see crime improving. I live in an apartment in Cape Town, but those I know that live in a house are adding more and more security.


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## vegasboy (Apr 28, 2010)

ikimbrell said:


> My wife and I are thinking about moving to South Africa in 36 months from the US. With crime and government services being the common issues, I am curious how bad those two issues were 3 years ago. Have they gotten worse, stayed the same, or gotten better? I am curious what the trend is and we might expect 36 months from now.


 This OSAC Report may help: http://https://www.osac.gov/pages/ContentReportDetails.aspx?cid=12014 Good luck with your decision - take care.


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## Native Texan (Apr 29, 2011)

ikimbrell said:


> My wife and I are thinking about moving to South Africa in 36 months from the US. With crime and government services being the common issues, I am curious how bad those two issues were 3 years ago. Have they gotten worse, stayed the same, or gotten better? I am curious what the trend is and we might expect 36 months from now.


Like everywhere else I guess it depends to a large degree on where you are going to be living when you make the move. Vegas boy gives an illustration of the crime in his upscale neighborhood in Capetown and it sounds like they have a problem with break ins in particular even with plenty of security patrols. On the other hand and at the opposite end of the country where I live, in a small town, at our June homeowners meeting it was revealed that thus far this year there have been 0 security breaches in the entire estate. The biggest complaints were that construction workers entering in the morning and leaving in the afternoons were making to much noise. There was also a fierce debate on what colors of paint could be applied and still be in line with the building restrictions. 
The houses in the estate seem to be wonderfuly built for the weather and we have had no problem keeping warm in winter or cool in summer. I have not calculated the cost per killowatt for power here as opposed to the USA but I do know that I am paying about 1/3 of what I was in Houston Texas when I owned a house there. My brother in law tells me that with deregulation of the utilities in the last few years the cost is now less but he still pays almost twice what I do and his house is only about 2/3 as large and he has no pool. I don't claim to know what the overall trends or costs are, just what I have experienced on my own. 
You just have to look at what you want and what you are willing to pay and what you are willing to compromise on. I am very fortunate in that I did not have to make any compromises and got even more than I had expected. Sometimes you just get blessed beyond what you could hope for.


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## vegasboy (Apr 28, 2010)

Native Texan said:


> Like everywhere else I guess it depends to a large degree on where you are going to be living when you make the move. Vegas boy gives an illustration of the crime in his upscale neighborhood in Capetown and it sounds like they have a problem with break ins in particular even with plenty of security patrols. On the other hand and at the opposite end of the country where I live, in a small town, at our June homeowners meeting it was revealed that thus far this year there have been 0 security breaches in the entire estate. The biggest complaints were that construction workers entering in the morning and leaving in the afternoons were making to much noise. There was also a fierce debate on what colors of paint could be applied and still be in line with the building restrictions.
> The houses in the estate seem to be wonderfuly built for the weather and we have had no problem keeping warm in winter or cool in summer. I have not calculated the cost per killowatt for power here as opposed to the USA but I do know that I am paying about 1/3 of what I was in Houston Texas when I owned a house there. My brother in law tells me that with deregulation of the utilities in the last few years the cost is now less but he still pays almost twice what I do and his house is only about 2/3 as large and he has no pool. I don't claim to know what the overall trends or costs are, just what I have experienced on my own.
> You just have to look at what you want and what you are willing to pay and what you are willing to compromise on. I am very fortunate in that I did not have to make any compromises and got even more than I had expected. Sometimes you just get blessed beyond what you could hope for.


 Native Texan, it sounds as if you are living in a smaller town where in some cases, crime are often lower. I am glad that you are happy and blessed. 

However, what you are describing, constitute less than 2% of this country. The boiling pot that will eventually spill over to the smaller towns and cities, resulting in poor to no municipal services etc. will be the result from escalating violence similar to what we have experienced in Rustenburg today as reported on CNN.

We are NOT winning the battle on violence, crime and corruption. "A wise man fights to win, but he is twice a fool who has no plan for possible defeat."


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## vegasboy (Apr 28, 2010)

vegasboy said:


> Native Texan, it sounds as if you are living in a smaller town where in some cases, crime are often lower. I am glad that you are happy and blessed.
> 
> However, what you are describing, constitute less than 2% of this country. The boiling pot that will eventually spill over to the smaller towns and cities, resulting in poor to no municipal services etc. will be the result from escalating violence similar to what we have experienced in Rustenburg today as reported on CNN.
> 
> We are NOT winning the battle on violence, crime and corruption. "A wise man fights to win, but he is twice a fool who has no plan for possible defeat."


 This extract from the US Diplomatic Report for 2012 (see link in one of my previous posts), explains the current situation well: "Of particular concern for American citizens living in South Africa are home invasion robberies. These crimes are often violent in nature and can occur at any time in the day. 

In many cases, criminals prefer the occupant is home because the residential alarm is off and the occupant can identify where valuables are located. The recently released South African Police Service (SAPS) 2011 crime statistics indicate that the number of home invasions remains at an alarmingly high rate, with a total of 7,039 reported in Gauteng Province alone (Gauteng Province includes the cities of Johannesburg and Pretoria). 

Measures to combat home invasions should include several layers of residential security including perimeter walls, alarms, and grills on windows. Vehicle gates should also be equipped with anti-lift brackets, as criminals have been known to use crowbars and pneumatic jacks to lift gates off their tracks."


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## Orbit24 (Jul 9, 2012)

My 2C

The Good:

1) Mostly friendly people (Greeting an unknown person is usually met with a positive response)
2) The outdoors activities, weather, first world suburbs and facilities
3) Great education for my kids

The Bad:

1) Inept government departments (not all of them)
2) Fraud and Corruption
3) Crime

If I could comment on the last point:

I live in Durban in an upmarket residential area. I cycle hundreds of kilometers in my area every year mostly on my own.
In 15 years of owning a home I have yet to have it broken into. I have lost a GPS and some work equipment to the sum total of less than $1000 in this period (from my car and work sites) and this is my total experience of crime in 15 years..

It is not my intention to paint a picture of utopia, it isn't that, but it's not all doom and gloom.


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## vegasboy (Apr 28, 2010)

Orbit24 said:


> My 2C
> 
> The Good:
> 
> ...


 Good post Orbit. The only part I do not agree with is when people say "I have lived here for so long and so long and it has never happened to me."

If you look at the countries with the most crime, I bet more than 50% of them were not personally or directly affected by it. See, it is not only those who experienced crime first hand that suffer, it is the whole psychological and sub conscious effect it has on you, especially your kids.

Read through the following stats. I don't want to go into a debate with regards to the accuracy of the data which was dealt with on another thread. It is just to help you understand that what is going on here is not normal:

Latest Statistics for crime in South Africa. Taken from the CIA.gov website and the United Nations 2011 report "International Statistics on Crime and Justice". This is South Africa's position in the World Crime Rankings:

Some interesting statistics:

Assaults (per capita) 12.0752 per 1,000 people [1st of 57] 
Burglaries (per capita) 8.89764 per 1,000 people [10th of 54] 
Car thefts 93,133 [6th of 46] 
Car thefts (per capita) 2.25426 per 1,000 people [18th of 55] 
Corruption > % of managers surveyed ranking this as a major business constraint 16.09 % [16th of 39] 
Courts > % of managers surveyed lacking confidence in courts to uphold property rights 20.83 % [14th of 39] 
Courts > % of managers surveyed ranking this as a major business constraint 8.79 % [15th of 39] 
Drug offences 53,810 per 100,000 people [4th of 46] 
Frauds 56,232 [6th of 48] 
Frauds (per capita) 1.51263 per 1,000 people [14th of 61] 
Gun violence > Homicides > % homicides with firearms 59.2028 [2nd of 32] 
Gun violence > Homicides > Firearm homicide rate > per 100,000 pop. 74.5748 [1st of 32] 
Gun violence > Homicides > Non-firearm homicide rate > per 100,000 pop. 51.3901 [2nd of 32] 
Gun violence > Homicides > Overall homicide rate > per 100,000 pop. 125.965 *[1st of 32] 
Manslaughters 11,202 [2nd of 42] 
Manslaughters (per capita) 0.247181 per 1,000 people [1st of 43] 
Murders (per capita) 0.496008 per 1,000 people [2nd of 62] 
Murders with firearms 31,918 [1st of 36] 
Murders with firearms (per capita) 0.719782 per 1,000 people [1st of 32] 
Police 101,582 [8th of 47] 
Police (per capita) 2.7668 per 1,000 people [22nd of 48] 
Prisoners 181,944 prisoners [2nd of 168] 
Prisoners > Female 2.2% [107th of 134] 
Prisoners > Foreign prisoners 2.1% [55th of 86] 
Prisoners > Per capita 402 per 100,000 people [10th of 164] 
Rapes (per capita) 1.19538 per 1,000 people [1st of 65] 
Robberies (per capita) 4.4434 per 1,000 people [4th of 64] 
Sentence Length 48.08 [13th of 21] 

Total crimes 2,683,849 [5th of 50] 

Total crimes (per capita) 77.1862 per 1,000 people [10th of 60]*


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## gushungo (Sep 3, 2012)

Best:
1) World class private education at rock bottom prices - less than R100k per annum for something that you would pay GBP25k for. Just Google St Marys in Kloof in KZN and dailymail to see what I mean - I remember reading a story there about British parents sending their daughters to SA because they couldn't afford private education in UK but for less money they could pay for a top class school in SA and boarding fees and flights
2) Great weather
3) Domestic/garden help is so cheap that you can live like a real lazy bum if you want to 

Worst:
1) Approx 1 in 1000 South Africans actually know how to drive properly. Immigrating here from Germany, which probably has the best average level of driving skill in the world, I get so frustrated by the incompetence. And I don't mean the minibus taxis - they are bad but predictably bad so you can compensate for them. The problem is the random, unpredictable, uncompensatable incompetence of everybody else.
2) Crime
3) Shopping malls closing so early - I thought Germany was bad, but 17:00 on a Saturday and some shops are closed?
Bonus number 4) Koeksisters - uuuurggghhh, the most disgusting thing I have ever eaten


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## Johanna (Apr 13, 2009)

gushungo said:


> Bonus number 4) Koeksisters - uuuurggghhh, the most disgusting thing I have ever eaten




I guess you do not like sweet syrupy stuff then!


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## Orbit24 (Jul 9, 2012)

gushungo said:


> 1) approx 1 in 1000 south africans actually know how to drive properly. Immigrating here from germany, which probably has the best average level of driving skill in the world, i get so frustrated by the incompetence. And i don't mean the minibus taxis - they are bad but predictably bad so you can compensate for them. The problem is the random, unpredictable, uncompensatable incompetence of everybody else.


My job requires me to be on the road a considerable amount. I swear the frustration and annoyance ages me. A lack of active policing of driving habits and few consequences to sloppy/aggresive/lazy driving are the some of the main reasons for this occurance. 
This is a generalisation of course and does not apply everywhere..


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## gushungo (Sep 3, 2012)

Johanna said:


> I guess you do not like sweet syrupy stuff then!


Only when you speak to me in that manner :wink:


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## adambt (Sep 9, 2012)

Best
1. Beautiful country, scenery and wildlife is breathtaking
2. Despite rising prices it's probably still a lot cheaper overall than living in Europe
3. Weather is a lot better than my home in the UK

Worst
1. Terrible poverty and inequality, makes me ashamed to be a human being sometimes
2. Country is still largely divided according to race, leading to xenophobia
3. Crime - Having Anti hi-jack in your car and not being able to leave the house on foot after dark is not normal.


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## Jem62 (Jul 25, 2012)

I can only speak for Cape Town, having moved back home after 18 years in London.

Best
1. Enormous quality of life, people in CT are quite unaware of it.

2. Unmatched beauty of the natural environment.

3. Sincere warmth of the people accustomed to welcoming strangers over centuries.

Worst
1. Suppose I should say crime but in 18 years our large extended family and even larger friendship circle have never been victims of crime except my brother in laws wife held up after collecting workers wages at the bank - no injuries (salaries now paid by bank transfer). As in any world City you need to be sensible and street wise.

2. Cost of living is increasing but still cheaper than most western cities.

3. Cost of housing and no central heating to warm homes in the winter, it therefore feels colder in winter in CT than in London, since there is no warm place to shelter, unless you use expensive electricty or gas heaters.


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