# Moving to Mexico City with a Teenager aka The Great Tobacco vs. Marijuana Debate



## Anna101

Hello fellow expats,

I am a German mother that has been living in Africa and South America since my kids were born. My English is pretty good and my children have been going to an American school since I can remember. My husband works for a finance company and will soon be re positioned to Mexico City. My students will almost certainly go to the ASF school because I want them to graduate with the IB diploma because it works for German Universities as well. 

We have been living in South America for the past seven years and I am used to the culture, but I have never been in Mexico. My oldest kid will graduate before we move but I will still have a 15 year old. I would like to know if I should extra careful with who he hangs out or where he goes. I know the drinking age in Mexico is 18 but in my experience teens can easily gain access of alcohol through different sources in Latin America. Should I be worried of anything? Are the streets safe to walk on or should he always have a friend with him?

Thank you,
Anna


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## Zorro2017

Anna101 said:


> Hello fellow expats,
> 
> I am a German mother that has been living in Africa and South America since my kids were born. My English is pretty good and my children have been going to an American school since I can remember. My husband works for a finance company and will soon be re positioned to Mexico City. My students will almost certainly go to the ASF school because I want them to graduate with the IB diploma because it works for German Universities as well.
> 
> We have been living in South America for the past seven years and I am used to the culture, but I have never been in Mexico. My oldest kid will graduate before we move but I will still have a 15 year old. I would like to know if I should extra careful with who he hangs out or where he goes. I know the drinking age in Mexico is 18 but in my experience teens can easily gain access of alcohol through different sources in Latin America. Should I be worried of anything? Are the streets safe to walk on or should he always have a friend with him?
> 
> Thank you,
> Anna


This depends on where you live, Mexico City is huge as I'm sure you know. I can't speak to the safety there but would he stand out? Perhaps someone living there with children can answer this. According to the U.S. travel advisory, there are no travel advisories or warnings in effect. 

https://travel.state.gov/content/passports/en/alertswarnings/mexico-travel-warning.html

Any kid who wants to can get their hands on alcohol, but that depends on how was raised and how he behaves now, moving to Mexico City won't suddenly change his behavior


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## UrbanMan

Zorro2017 said:


> Any kid who wants to can get their hands on alcohol, but that depends on how was raised and how he behaves now, moving to Mexico City won't suddenly change his behavior


Unless the teenager, all of whom want to fit in, feels he has to drink to be one of the gang.

I personally think a teenager having some exposure to alcohol is not a tragedy. As long as it is contained its fine. Part of life experience, part of preparing for true adulthood.


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## Anna101

We are going to live in or near the Anzures area. The area looks nice, has a park and has access to public transport. 

My child drinks at party's but he has never gotten drunk or sick from alcohol.

Thank you for you reply.


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## xolo

Hi Anna, I'm not familiar with that neighborhood so can't help you there, but due to its location I would think it pretty upscale and safe. I think the poster Isle Verde lives there or near there so maybe she can comment. Mexico City is really big with a lot of traffic and people. Petty crime, especially in crowded places like the metro, is a concern. A big change from Argentina, making some assumptions since you are German, is that racially your child will really stand out. That will make him _more _popular with the girls due to social attitudes, really from colonial times. It also might make for a dynamic at times. But he should be just fine, especially if his Spanish is OK.


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## Zorro2017

Anna101 said:


> My child drinks at party's but he has never gotten drunk or sick from alcohol.


Some might be shocked but Germany embraces a different attitude toward alcohol, I personally have no problem with it.

A Google search results in....In Germany, there are 3 drinking ages: 13 – minors are allowed to consume beer or wine with their parents or legal guardian. 16 – minors are allowed to consume beer or wine without their parents or legal guardian. 18 – adults are allowed to consume distilled alcohol.


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## surabi

Underage teens have no problem finding access to alcohol pretty much anywhere in the world if they are motivated to do so. Raised 3 daughters in Canada and I know they and their friends could just hang around near the liquor store and pay some unscrupulous adult to go in and buy them something. 
Our house used to be the hang-out house for my girls and their friends. While I didn't approve of them drinking, I did allow it to some extent since I knew they would just go somewhere else to drink if that's what they were into and preferred they did it in a safe environment where I could keep an eye on it.


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## Anna101

Zorro2017 said:


> Some might be shocked but Germany embraces a different attitude toward alcohol, I personally have no problem with it.
> 
> A Google search results in....In Germany, there are 3 drinking ages: 13 – minors are allowed to consume beer or wine with their parents or legal guardian. 16 – minors are allowed to consume beer or wine without their parents or legal guardian. 18 – adults are allowed to consume distilled alcohol.


I don't want my children to drink but it is true that Germany has a different drinking culture. Even though 16 year old can buy alcohol it is very unusual for them to drink enough to get drunk. It surprises me that kids in my child's grade have been drinking since grade 6. Thankfully I have thought my child to be responsible and he only started to drink this year, aged 14. It is really interesting how different places have different views on alcohol.


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## Zorro2017

Anna101 said:


> I don't want my children to drink but it is true that Germany has a different drinking culture. Even though 16 year old can buy alcohol it is very unusual for them to drink enough to get drunk. It surprises me that kids in my child's grade have been drinking since grade 6. Thankfully I have thought my child to be responsible and he only started to drink this year, aged 14. It is really interesting how different places have different views on alcohol.



It is interesting.

Minors can drink if accompanied by parent or legal guardian as well as someone with permission from their parent or legal guardian. A person must be eighteen years or over to legally purchase and consume alcoholic beverages in Mexico. The drinking age however isn't strictly enforced, and IDs are barely requested.

It is common for a store owner to offer to open a beer that doesn't have a twist top, or if they don't offer you can ask and most will do it. But... you can't stand there and drink it.


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## Isla Verde

xolo said:


> Hi Anna, I'm not familiar with that neighborhood so can't help you there, but due to its location I would think it pretty upscale and safe. I think the poster Isle Verde lives there or near there so maybe she can comment . . .


I live fairly near Anzures, which is a bit more upscale than my neighborhood, Col. Cuauhtémoc, near the US Embassy and the Angel. From what I've seen from the bus, which I used to take on my annual visits to INM, it seems like a nice area. Let me know if you'd like to get together once you are settled in your new home. One of my best friends here was born in Germany, grew up in that States, and is now a Mexican citizen.


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## UrbanMan

xolo said:


> racially your child will really stand out. That will make him _more _popular with the girls due to social attitudes, really from colonial times.


Do you think this is true in the adult world as well? All over Mexico? In case it matters, I am white-skinned with brown hair (not the shade of brown Latinos would have), 1.8m tall.


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## Zorro2017

UrbanMan said:


> Do you think this is true in the adult world as well? All over Mexico? In case it matters, I am white-skinned with brown hair (not the shade of brown Latinos would have), 1.8m tall.


A lot depends on your bank account and how tall it is.


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## Isla Verde

UrbanMan said:


> Do you think this is true in the adult world as well? All over Mexico? In case it matters, I am white-skinned with brown hair (not the shade of brown Latinos would have), 1.8m tall.


I've been living in Mexico for ten years. When I arrived I was 62, now I'm 72 (yikes!). I am a single white woman who has dated several Mexican men, quite a few of them much younger than me. I fear it was my pale skin that attracted most of them to me, rather than my fabulous personality. By the way, it wasn't my bank balance since I have a very modest income, even by Mexican standards.


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## UrbanMan

Zorro2017 said:


> A lot depends on your bank account and how tall it is.


So, I should get my net worth printed on the front of a tshirt, and walk around town?



islaverde said:


> I fear it was my pale skin that attracted most of them to me, rather than my fabulous personality.


I think I can live with that.

.


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## ojosazules11

Given that he’ll be at an American school in an upper scale neighbourhood, his lighter skin will likely not stand out as much. That Argentine accent when he speaks Spanish will stand out, though. Probably he’ll be taken as Argentine rather than German. In Argentina there was immigration from more areas of Europe, including the British Isles and Germany, so being lighter skinned there does not in and of itself make you stand out. When I was there I was mistaken for a Central American, since that was the first Spanish I learned at age 21 yrs. 

Anna, probably you’ll be best off checking with other parents at the school. There’s sure to be a range of attitudes from overprotective to _laissez faire _, so ask around. There is also a Facebook group specifically for “Families in Mexico”. You may find some other families with teens living in Mexico City who can speak from personal experience. We do have at least one member on this forum who has raised kids in Mexico City, Maesonna. Maybe she’ll be able to give some advice.


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## citlali

Actually some teenagers do not drink much just because they can drink but the ones I know sure smoke marijuana more than they drink..


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## UrbanMan

citlali said:


> the ones I know sure smoke marijuana more than they drink..


If I were a parent of a teen, I would be more worried about this, yes citlali.


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## Zorro2017

citlali said:


> Actually some teenagers do not drink much just because they can drink but the ones I know sure smoke marijuana more than they drink..


I'd rather my kids smoked weed than drank. The results of the two really are stark.


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## maesonna

ojosazules11 said:


> We do have at least one member on this forum who has raised kids in Mexico City, Maesonna. Maybe she’ll be able to give some advice.


I’ve been following this discussion and wondering if I have anything to add. I can’t really think of anything. My kids are all in their twenties now and responsible for themselves. Somehow we got through the teen years. They were not rebellious nor given to trying substances (rarely drank to excess) but they did have some problems. Fortunately they are all right now.
My impression is that on the whole it’s more dangerous here especially at night than in our home countries. But it depends a lot on who they associate with. To think that better-off people are safer company or that better-off neighbourhoods are safer could be an illusion. Because it is the richer people that can afford drugs more readily, and richer neighbourhoods offer juicer pickings to a certain kind of miscreant.


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## citlali

Whether you prefer they drink than smoke is somewhat cultural, here the parents of the kid I know freaked when they caught their son smoking dope while they would find that passing out drunk at a party would be ok.. They are Zapoteco and drinking to excess is totally ok during fiestas when smoking dope is a no no..
The kid grew up seeing what alcohol does and he will not touch it..good for him I say.


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## ojosazules11

As a family doctor I see problems with both problematic alcohol use and cannabis use in adolescents and young adults. Which is worse depends a lot on the individual and is hard to predict. For a lot of kids weed probably is less harmful than excess alcohol, but I’ve personally had 3 teens in my practice who have developed psychosis due to cannabis use. This is a known risk of cannabis, especially in still-developing brains. Of course the heavier the use, the higher the potential risk. In some the psychosis is a transient issue, but in others it can lead to chronic psychosis / schizophrenia if there is an underlying susceptibility.


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## eastwind

What is the status of efforts to legalize cannabis in Mexico? What is the legal drinking age in Mexico? 

(I have never been a drinker or pot user and barely pay attention to the rules for these things)


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## maesonna

eastwind said:


> What is the legal drinking age in Mexico?


18. But when one of my kids was in high school (aged 16 or 17, I don’t remember which) her class went on a day trip to Querétaro and the itinerary included a stop at a winery, no restrictions. So I don’t think drinking age is enforced very strictly. I mean, a school-sponsored trip with teachers, and most or all of the students under age!


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## citlali

sounds like France if the kids are with adults and supervised there is are really no restrictions.
The problem are kids out to get drunk not kids going to a winery on an educational trip. It seems logical to me.


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## TundraGreen

eastwind said:


> What is the status of efforts to legalize cannabis in Mexico? What is the legal drinking age in Mexico?
> 
> (I have never been a drinker or pot user and barely pay attention to the rules for these things)


I believe the possession of small amounts of marijuana is legal now in Mexico City or State. I don't remember the details.


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## Zorro2017

eastwind said:


> What is the status of efforts to legalize cannabis in Mexico? What is the legal drinking age in Mexico?
> 
> (I have never been a drinker or pot user and barely pay attention to the rules for these things)



Mexico began changing its marijuana policy in 2009 when it decriminalized the possession of up to five grams, as well as small, "personal use" amounts of cocaine, heroin, and other drugs, in an effort to treat addiction as a public health issue rather than a criminal offense. Instead of jail time, those found in possession of substances are encouraged to enter treatment.

Medical use has also passed but the Mexican government put handcuffs on it as the current law is so limited it is practically useless as the weed has to have a 1% or lower THC count, that is unobtainable by an average grower. Mexico plans to export medical marijuana but at this point only paper has been passed and no actual legal farms have cropped up to my knowledge.

Recreational marijuana is still broadly prohibited in Mexico, but the government is considering a measure that would let citizens legally possess up to an ounce of it. In 2015, *Mexico's Supreme Court granted four people the right to grow their own marijuana for personal consumption*. The ruling set a precedent that could accelerate efforts to pass legislation permitting broader use of pot. “Absolute prohibition is excessive and doesn’t protect the right to health,” Justice Olga Sánchez Cordero said at the time. According to some sites a lot of lawyer are burning the midnight oil for individuals because you can't legalize it for four people and deny others the same right.

Peña Nieto, who once was a vocal opponent of drug legalization, has undergone a similar shift in thinking. He has said that addiction should be thought of as a “public health problem” and that users should not be criminalized. He has also advocated for the United States and Mexico to follow similar policies on drug use and marijuana legislation.


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## UrbanMan

Zorro2017 said:


> I'd rather my kids smoked weed than drank. The results of the two really are stark.


You personally enjoy alcohol, on a fairly regular basis, is my understanding. How are your results?

I'm anti weed because I've seen many literally smoke away years of their lives. For some, it seems to take away ambition and drive, last thing you want for those in their late teens especially. 



citlali said:


> The problem are kids out to get drunk


I'll once again bring one my favorite words into the discussion. Binary. Drinking alcohol and getting drunk, or not getting drunk, its not binary. It's not just two, neat and clean and home by 10pm, or puking your guts out in an alley at 2am surrounded by hookers and coke dealers. Plenty of space in between.


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## Zorro2017

UrbanMan said:


> You personally enjoy alcohol, on a fairly regular basis, is my understanding. How are your results?
> 
> I'm anti weed because I've seen many literally smoke away years of their lives. For some, it seems to take away ambition and drive, last thing you want for those in their late teens especially.
> 
> 
> 
> I'll once again bring one my favorite words into the discussion. Binary. Drinking alcohol and getting drunk, or not getting drunk, its not binary. It's not just two, neat and clean and home by 10pm, or puking your guts out in an alley at 2am surrounded by hookers and coke dealers. Plenty of space in between.


I drink and enjoy it, I've seen others drink and get violent, it depends on your personality, it's like a magnifying glass, it magnifies your personality, some are funny drunks, others are violent.

As far as smoking goes, I've never seen anyone "smoke away years of their lives or lose ambition and drive", for some it releases creative energy such as musicians and actually motivates others to work harder as is evidenced in Jamaica. Ganja "breaks" are customary during harvest time, and productivity, if not enhanced, is at least no worse than among nonsmokers. The author believes that ganja serves a culturalsocial function, encouraging cooperation and friendships, reducing potential violence, and fostering group cohesiveness.

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/article-abstract/379686

I've never known of anyone dying behind the wheel while driving stoned, I'm not saying it doesn't happen but in my experience it makes you more aware of your surroundings as opposed to alcohol where just keeping the car on the road or not passing out is a challenge. I know a lot of people that died after drinking and driving, particularly on motorcycles. 

In 2015, 10,265 people died in alcohol impaired driving crashes, accounting for nearly one third (29%) of all traffic related deaths in America yet alcohol is "socially acceptable" and sold in every store. Everyone knows why they have those big coolers full of 16 and 36 ounce singles in every 7/11. Drinking and driving is very common and a lot more dangerous than consuming marijuana, in my opinion.


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## ojosazules11

UrbanMan said:


> ... I've seen many literally smoke away years of their lives. For some, it seems to take away ambition and drive, last thing you want for those in their late teens especially.
> ...


I’ve seen this as well. Again, it doesn’t mean everyone who smokes weed will become a quintessential pothead, but certainly daily use can result in decreased motivation and drive to do something “more”. Again, referencing my anecdotal observations of young people in my practice, most of those who have had difficulties getting themselves through high school- generally because they had difficulties getting themselves TO high school each morning- were using weed regularly. Often they would cite anxiety as the reason for using cannabis. But along with reducing their anxiety, their choice of herbal self-medication also reduced their concern about getting to school, doing their homework, graduating from high school, getting a decent job and in general getting on with their lives. 

But humans are resilient creatures, and I have also seen some of these young people whom I and their parents were quite worried about recognize that using weed every day and just coasting through life was not how they envisioned their future. A couple even specifically referenced hanging out with people in their early 30’s who were still doing that, and realizing they didn’t want to be like that 10 years down the road. In both these cases, they stopped using regularly, went back to college and are doing great now. One of the joys of being a family doctor.


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## Zorro2017

ojosazules11 said:


> I’ve seen this as well. Again, it doesn’t mean everyone who smokes weed will become a quintessential pothead, but certainly daily use can result in decreased motivation and drive to do something “more”. Again, referencing my anecdotal observations of young people in my practice, most of those who have had difficulties getting themselves through high school- generally because they had difficulties getting themselves TO high school each morning- were using weed regularly. Often they would cite anxiety as the reason for using cannabis. But along with reducing their anxiety, their choice of herbal self-medication also reduced their concern about getting to school, doing their homework, graduating from high school, getting a decent job and in general getting on with their lives.
> 
> But humans are resilient creatures, and I have also seen some of these young people whom I and their parents were quite worried about recognize that using weed every day and just coasting through life was not how they envisioned their future. A couple even specifically referenced hanging out with people in their early 30’s who were still doing that, and realizing they didn’t want to be like that 10 years down the road. In both these cases, they stopped using regularly, went back to college and are doing great now. One of the joys of being a family doctor.


Perhaps the ones you saw were the ones *having problems*, otherwise why would they be seeing a doctor about it? I've know a lot of people who did in high school and still smoke herb daily who are successful in life and business, they don't use because of anxiety, they use because of the buzz, the feeling of euphoria and how it makes things that are only mildly funny hilarious. People are all different. A forum darling, Barack Hussein Obama belonged to the "Shoom Gang" and smoked a lot of weed, he went on to become the president.

William Shakespeare, traces of cannabis were found on a clay pipe in his home. Queen Victoria, James Monroe, our fifth president was introduced to hashish while serving as an ambassador in France and smoked until he was 73 years old. 

Cannabis pollen was found on the mummy of the pharaoh Ramesses II. 

Hua Tuo was a respected Chinese scholar and doctor who lived during the Han dynasty. Hua is credited with creating the world's first anesthetic for performing surgery, around 200 A.D. The anesthesia that Hua concocted was called mafeisan. Mafeisan was made by mixing cannabis powder with wine.

Several written accounts of JFK's life claim that the president used marijuana to cope with his severe back pain. He also may have used it recreationally. 

Louisa May Alcott was a 19th century American author best known for her novel, Little Women. She wrote one story called "Perilous Play," which involves two lovers getting high and then getting engaged on a boat. One character explains the effects like this: “A heavenly dreaminess comes over one, in which they move as if on air." Even though Alcott didn't admit to smoking herself, she did the next best thing by writing a story that ended with the line, "Heaven bless hashish, if its dreams end like this!" 

When he was 35 years old, in 1969, Carl Sagan wrote an essay under a pen name talking about the insights he got when he smoked marijuana, and advocating for marijuana legalization. Later in life, Sagan openly advocated for the legalization of medical marijuana. It wasn't until three years after Sagan's death that the public learned he was the author of that 1969 essay.

Bill Gates, Bill Maher, Bill Clinton, George W. Bush, Franklin Pierce, Zachary Taylor, Andrew Jackson, James Monroe, James Madison, the “Father of the Constitution” claimed that hemp gave him the insight to create a new democratic nation. Thomas Jefferson: In addition to farming hemp, Jefferson was Ambassador to France during the hashish era there. At risk of imprisonment if caught, Jefferson smuggled hemp seeds from China known for their potency to America. 

Internet searches reveal a lot. We can't just very well say that smoking pot makes people waste their lives away, everyone is different.


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## Isla Verde

Zorro2017 said:


> Internet searches reveal a lot. We can't just very well say that smoking pot makes people waste their lives away, everyone is different.


Ojos did not say that smoking pot makes [all] people waste their lives away. She spoke of her experience as a physician who had some patients who could have ended up smoking their lives away. As you mention, everyone is different.


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## UrbanMan

I've heard this argument before, namely, here's a list of 25 successful people that consumed weed. This proves weed is harmless. This proves weed might in fact be a good thing. In reality, it proves nothing of the sort. 

Lots of people who are successful smoked cigarettes at some point. Some still consume tobacco. Does that mean tobacco is harmless? 

Now weed is not heroin or cocaine. The decision for it to now be effectively legal in many places, I get it. Lots of people are gonna do it, might as well make it safer (that when people buy it, they are not buying say lawn clippings laced with angel dust), and make some taxes off it. 



ojosazules11 said:


> A couple even specifically referenced hanging out with people in their early 30’s who were still doing that, and realizing they didn’t want to be like that 10 years down the road.


Love this. Matches my experience of working in a restaurant as a 16-17 year old. There were some 21 and 22 year olds working there also. I recall being invited to their homes to party after work a few times. At first, it was cool, hey here I am hanging with actual adults. Look at me! But then it was exactly as described above. It was a peak into a possible future. Not one that I wanted.


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## Zorro2017

Isla Verde said:


> Ojos did not say that smoking pot makes [all] people waste their lives away. She spoke of her experience as a physician who had some patients who could have ended up smoking their lives away. As you mention, everyone is different.


I know that and didn't mean to imply that. I just feel that of two alcohol is much worse. It is responsible for a lot of domestic abuse and deaths yet it is legal.


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## Zorro2017

UrbanMan said:


> I've heard this argument before, namely, here's a list of 25 successful people that consumed weed. This proves weed is harmless. This proves weed might in fact be a good thing. In reality, it proves nothing of the sort.
> 
> Lots of people who are successful smoked cigarettes at some point. Some still consume tobacco. Does that mean tobacco is harmless?


I never said it was harmless, smoking anything can lead to lung cancer, chronic bronchitis and emphysema. Eating it however does none of the above. My main point is that there is a lot more good that comes from marijuana than harm and our government has been lying about it for decades. I see no good that comes from alcohol so to have one legal and the other not makes no sense, particularly here in Mexico where cartel violence has killed millions since the war on drugs. 

The pharmaceutical companies don't want cures, they want customers. The FDA, Food and Drug administration is fighting this tooth and nail saying that marijuana does not cure cancer, but the U.S. National Cancer Institute reveals the truth as they are not chasing the dollars like the FDA is. According to the NCI...

Cannabinoids may inhibit tumor growth by causing cell death, blocking cell growth, and blocking the development of blood vessels needed by tumors to grow. Laboratory and animal studies have shown that cannabinoids may be able to kill cancer cells while protecting normal cells.

Cannabinoids may protect against inflammation of the colon and may have potential in reducing the risk of colon cancer, and possibly in its treatment.

A laboratory study of delta -9-THC in hepatocellular carcinoma (liver cancer) cells showed it damaged or killed the cancer cells. The same study of delta-9-THC in models of liver cancer showed that it had anti-tumor effects. Delta-9-THC has been shown to cause these effects by acting on molecules that may also be found in non-small cell lung cancer cells and breast cancer cells.

A laboratory study of cannabidiol (CBD) in estrogen receptor positive and estrogen receptor negative breast cancer cells showed that it caused cancer cell death while having little effect on normal breast cells. Studies of metastatic breast cancer showed that cannabinoids may lessen the growth, number, and spread of tumors.

A laboratory study of cannabidiol in human glioma cells showed that when given along with chemotherapy, CBD may make chemotherapy more effective and increase cancer cell death without harming normal cells. Studies showed that CBD together with delta-9-THC may make chemotherapy such as temozolomide more effective.

These studies are considered by the NCI as preclinical. They were all done using animals. According to them, no clinical trials of cannabis use for the treatment of cancer in humans have been published.

The NCI has included findings on peripheral benefits for cancer patients from marijuana:

Delta-9-THC and other cannabinoids stimulate appetite and can increase food intake.
Cannabinoid receptors have been studied in the brain, spinal cord, and nerve endings throughout the body to understand their roles in pain relief.
Cannabinoids have been studied for anti-inflammatory effects that may play a role in pain relief.

The NCI is one of the National Institutes of Health.

Infowars is reporting that the National Institute on Drug Abuse, another of the agencies of the National Institutes of Health, has referred to marijuana studies, including one that showed “marijuana can kill certain cancer cells and reduce the size of others.”

The big news here is not these studies. These and many more are contained on PubMed, the U.S. National Library of Medicine that is also part of the National Institutes of Health. They are there for all of the world to see.

The news is that after decades of the demonization of marijuana by a federal government that supports pharmaceuticals and GMOs, there is a breath of change. But if you want to prevent or treat cancer with marijuana, be prepared for arrest and imprisonment in most states of this union.



Read more: Marijuana Kills Cancer Cells, Admits the U.S. National Cancer Institute | Natural Society 
Follow us: @naturalsociety on Twitter | NaturalSociety on Facebook


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## UrbanMan

Zorro2017 said:


> I see no good that comes from alcohol so to have one legal and the other not makes no sense


Oodles of experts have linked light to moderate alcohol consumption with positive health outcomes. Including reduced instances of dementia, reduced occurrence of cardiovascular problems, and reduced risk of diabetes.




Zorro2017 said:


> alcohol is much worse. It is responsible for a lot of domestic abuse and deaths yet it is legal.


Re: social ills and marijuana, since it being legal is a new thing, we'll probably need to wait 5 or more years for reliable data. Its worth noting impaired driving includes being under the influence of marijuana. Arrests do happen.

Re: social ills and alcohol, imo, in many cases, its a chicken and the egg question. Man and woman are drunk, violence occurs. So everything was great between Joe and Tina, but the simple introduction of 10 ounces of scotch completely caused the punching?


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## ojosazules11

As Isla pointed out, I was not generalizing in any way, just pointing out that cannabis is not always innocuous, likewise with alcohol. I have much less concern with adults using it and I refer adult patients to medical marijuana clinics if it seems like something that may be of benefit to them for their specific medical condition. Some have found it beneficial, in some cases very beneficial and they were able to stop other pharmaceuticals. I don’t think it’s a panacea, though. Most people can drink alcohol without abusing it, most people can smoke cannabis without deleterious effects. 

However this thread started off by potential risks to teenagers. The risk to a developing adolescent brain is real and I’ve seen it first hand, both in my patients and in teenagers of other people I know. If you’ve ever seen someone in an acute psychosis, it is a heartbreaking experience, especially in a teenager you’ve watched grow up. Why even risk it?


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## Zorro2017

UrbanMan said:


> So everything was great between Joe and Tina, but the simple introduction of 10 ounces of scotch completely caused the punching?


In some cases, yes. Some people simply can't handle alcohol. Some continue to drink even though violence does occur only when they are drunk which does not when they are sober. I don't think you can really argue the fact that a lot domestic abuse of not only wives but also children occurs when the man comes home drunk. Drunk domestic violence is not limited to men, women can also become abusive when drunk


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## Zorro2017

ojosazules11 said:


> However this thread started off by potential risks to teenagers. The risk to a developing adolescent brain is real and I’ve seen it first hand, both in my patients and in teenagers of other people I know. If you’ve ever seen someone in an acute psychosis, it is a heartbreaking experience, especially in a teenager you’ve watched grow up. Why even risk it?


I'm not debating your experience but as I've said, the ones seeking help are obviously *having a problem with it*. In my experience, and I was a teen in the 70's, the ones who got anxious when smoking weed, simply stopped smoking it.

Yet somehow, since the 60's and 70's up to today, 57 years, *millions* of teens smoked weed daily with no ill effects as far as psychosis goes. Did some of them become slackers and lose motivation? Yes. Did others go on to be successful? Yes.

As I have said, everyone is different. One person faints at the sight of blood, the next person can whistle their way through an autopsy on a two week old corpse right after lunch. One person can do LSD and get on a roller coaster and laugh their head off, the next can smoke two hits, think they are overdosing and never try it again. 

But the overwhelming majority of people who use marijuana enjoy it or they wouldn't keep using it. It does cost a substantial amount of money and carries the risk of arrest and a criminal record.


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## Zorro2017

UrbanMan said:


> Re: social ills and marijuana, since it being legal is a new thing, we'll probably need to wait 5 or more years for reliable data. Its worth noting impaired driving includes being under the influence of marijuana. Arrests do happen.


Are you actually implying that people *just now started using marijuana because it is legal?*

As I've said, people began using it by the millions in the 60's, the data is in.


----------



## ElPocho

I went to the American School Foundation from the third grade till 12th. I haven't been there for 33 years. So things may of changes, and some things never change.

First you son will have some of the richest Mexican kids as classmates. The Mexican elite send their kids to ASF, Greengates (British), Alexander Von Humboldt (German), Liceo Franco (French).

ASF is not in a nice nieghborhood. 
They used to have school buses that would pickup and drop off the kids. 

Some kids will have bodyguards pick them up. An the school is heavily guarded at opening and closing. 

Social stratification at the school is big. 
Drug use in the 1970's was high, but not as bad as the current California public school system.

After school kids either have cars or have chauffers drive them around.

When I went to school very few kids would take public transportation. 

Weekends, sometimes drive to somebody's second house in Cuernavaca or Acapulco with little parental supervision. 

If you have a friend with bodyguards things are golden since you are a little above the law. Due to the stratification, you kids probably won't get invited. 

The American kids (who don't speak Spanish) are few and sometimes are on a rotation where they move from country to country, their parents are with the State Department, a transnational company, they mostly hate Mexico. 

Watch the show Club de Cuervos on Netflix. It was produced by somebody who went to my school. 

A movie that took me back was "Y Tu Mamá También" they have the weekend escape drive to the coast. You should watch that. There is a lot of social commentary on that movie, it's about the relationship between the middle and upper class.








Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk


----------



## ElPocho

ElPocho said:


> I went to the American School Foundation from the third grade till 12th. I haven't been there for 33 years. So things may of changes, and some things never change.
> 
> First you son will have some of the richest Mexican kids as classmates. The Mexican elite send their kids to ASF, Greengates (British), Alexander Von Humboldt (German), Liceo Franco (French).
> 
> ASF is not in a nice nieghborhood.
> They used to have school buses that would pickup and drop off the kids.
> 
> Some kids will have bodyguards pick them up. An the school is heavily guarded at opening and closing.
> 
> Social stratification at the school is big.
> Drug use in the 1970's was high, but not as bad as the current California public school system.
> 
> After school kids either have cars or have chauffers drive them around.
> 
> When I went to school very few kids would take public transportation.
> 
> Weekends, sometimes drive to somebody's second house in Cuernavaca or Acapulco with little parental supervision.
> 
> If you have a friend with bodyguards things are golden since you are a little above the law. Due to the stratification, you kids probably won't get invited.
> 
> The American kids (who don't speak Spanish) are few and sometimes are on a rotation where they move from country to country, their parents are with the State Department, a transnational company, they mostly hate Mexico.
> 
> Watch the show Club de Cuervos on Netflix. It was produced by somebody who went to my school.
> 
> A movie that took me back was "Y Tu Mamá También" they have the weekend escape drive to the coast. You should watch that. There is a lot of social commentary on that movie, it's about the relationship between the middle and upper class.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk


Sorry about typos, spell checker replaces words sometimes, grr! 

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk


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## Zorro2017

ElPocho said:


> Sorry about typos, spell checker replaces words sometimes, grr!
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk


This is the type of information needed, I'd be more concerned about safety than substances. I don't know the area and my first thought was kidnapping but didn't want to be accused of fear mongering. I try to avoid taxis in CDMX from what I have read.


----------



## ElPocho

Zorro2017 said:


> This is the type of information needed, I'd be more concerned about safety than substances. I don't know the area and my first thought was kidnapping but didn't want to be accused of fear mongering. I try to avoid taxis in CDMX from what I have read.


Anybody who lives in Mexico talks about kidnapping. I had a friend who was kidnapped for 30 days about five years ago. They one b exactly how much money he had in the bank, and his kidnappers seemed like military dressed in civilian clothes. 





Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk


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## ElPocho

ElPocho said:


> Anybody who lives in Mexico talks about kidnapping. I had a friend who was kidnapped for 30 days about five years ago. They one b exactly how much money he had in the bank, and his kidnappers seemed like military dressed in civilian clothes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk


Taxis get car-jacked then driven around looking for a target.


Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk


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## UrbanMan

Zorro2017 said:


> UrbanMan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Re: social ills and marijuana, since it being legal is a new thing, we'll probably need to wait 5 or more years for reliable data. Its worth noting impaired driving includes being under the influence of marijuana. Arrests do happen.
> 
> 
> 
> Are you actually implying that people just now started using marijuana because it is legal?
Click to expand...

Really Zorro? I am implying nothing. What I am stating is, when a substance is illegal, it is much more difficult to study its impacts in detail. The data is simply not gathered and put in databases. The questions do not get asked. Researchers cannot do their job thoroughly without data. There has been a lot of don't ask, don't tell with marijuana. Slowly, this is ending.



Zorro2017 said:


> UrbanMan said:
> 
> 
> 
> So everything was great between Joe and Tina, but the simple introduction of 10 ounces of scotch completely caused the punching?
> 
> 
> 
> In some cases, yes. Some people simply can't handle alcohol.
Click to expand...

A very small percentage of cases, imo. Otherwise, wouldn't every bar everywhere have 25 fights a night? Do you hear stories of the happy couple sharing a bottle of Reisling, and then spontaneously smashing dinner plates over each other's heads?


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## Isla Verde

Zorro2017 said:


> This is the type of information needed, I'd be more concerned about safety than substances. I don't know the area and my first thought was kidnapping but didn't want to be accused of fear mongering. I try to avoid taxis in CDMX from what I have read.


I live in Mexico City and occasionally take a taxi, usually from the street. In ten years, I have not had any problems. What am I doing wrong?


----------



## Anna101

*Kidnapping and Taxis*



Zorro2017 said:


> This is the type of information needed, I'd be more concerned about safety than substances. I don't know the area and my first thought was kidnapping but didn't want to be accused of fear mongering. I try to avoid taxis in CDMX from what I have read.


First of all I want to say thanks to everyone commenting on this thread. I did not think civil debates were as common as this. 

At the moment we are living in Lima, Peru and my son always gets to places with taxis, ubers, and walking if the place is relatively near. When we arrived there was a child who was kidnapped in his school but it never repeated. I generally think my son is smart and he has never gotten into any serious trouble or danger. 

My question is that if he goes to school (ASF) with public transport would it be safe for him or would you not recommend it? We often go to Berlin and the public transport there is awesome, is it similar in Mexico City or should I not except much from it?


----------



## citlali

When i Mexico city I take buses, subways and taxis off the street , the public transportation there is very good I cannot imagine being afraid of it...


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## ElPocho

Anna101 said:


> First of all I want to say thanks to everyone commenting on this thread. I did not think civil debates were as common as this.
> 
> At the moment we are living in Lima, Peru and my son always gets to places with taxis, ubers, and walking if the place is relatively near. When we arrived there was a child who was kidnapped in his school but it never repeated. I generally think my son is smart and he has never gotten into any serious trouble or danger.
> 
> My question is that if he goes to school (ASF) with public transport would it be safe for him or would you not recommend it? We often go to Berlin and the public transport there is awesome, is it similar in Mexico City or should I not except much from it?


Like I said the school used to have a bus service. I'd recommend that if it still exists. 
I'd recommend finding a good cab driver or service to provide that, rather than a different can every day.
Since you lived in Lima, I'd say it's about the same.
Hope this helps.

And yes they are civilized here, happy healthy people, IMHO. Mexico does that to some people...

Magical in many ways...

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk


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## Zorro2017

UrbanMan said:


> Really Zorro? I am implying nothing. What I am stating is, when a substance is illegal, it is much more difficult to study its impacts in detail. The data is simply not gathered and put in databases. The questions do not get asked. Researchers cannot do their job thoroughly without data. There has been a lot of don't ask, don't tell with marijuana. Slowly, this is ending.


Yes really Urbanman, marijuana, even though illegal has been studied in depth by the FDA and other government entities since the 60's

In 1944 the La Guardia Committee report from the New York Academy of Medicine was the first in a long line of official bodies to question the prohibition. *The committee found marijuana not physically addictive, not a gateway drug and that it did not lead to crime.*

That was* 73 years ago*, the data was studied and presented by the New York Academy of Medicine,* is that enough time?*

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-science-behind-the-dea-s-long-war-on-marijuana/

Cesamet was approved for marketing by the FDA in 1985 for the treatment of nausea and vomiting associated with cancer chemotherapy. Passage of the 1906 Pure Food and Drug Act, any drug that is marketed in the United States must undergo rigorous scientific testing.

That was 32 years ago that the research had progressed enough to pass drug. Marinol and Dronabinol also passed the FDA long ago. Medical marijuana was not just passed on a whim, it was studied in depth.

https://www.dea.gov/divisions/sea/in_focus/marinol-cessmet.pdf

The psychological and behavioral effects have been studied for decades. The questions have been asked and the researchers have done their jobs.

I think we have beat this dead horse enough now and should focus on the more immediate or serious dangers as pointed out by El Pocho.


----------



## Zorro2017

Anna101 said:


> First of all I want to say thanks to everyone commenting on this thread. I did not think civil debates were as common as this.
> 
> At the moment we are living in Lima, Peru and my son always gets to places with taxis, ubers, and walking if the place is relatively near. When we arrived there was a child who was kidnapped in his school but it never repeated. I generally think my son is smart and he has never gotten into any serious trouble or danger.
> 
> My question is that if he goes to school (ASF) with public transport would it be safe for him or would you not recommend it? We often go to Berlin and the public transport there is awesome, is it similar in Mexico City or should I not except much from it?


Oh debates occur here and they are not all civil, but to address your concerns...

My first thought was of Villar Galaz, 39, who was abducted on the night of Sept. 13 after leaving the offices of IBM Mexico, where she worked as a consultant, *and getting into a taxi for a ride to her home in Mexico City's Polanco district.*

The kidnappers contacted her family the next day to demand a ransom and the captive's loved ones handed over $3,275 within hours.

Even so, a woman later identified as Villar Galaz was found dead Sept. 15 in Santiago Tianguistenco, a city in the central state of Mexico.

Another source I read but cannot find right now said that the taxi driver picked her up, then stopped and a policeman got in also and assisted with the kidnapping, she apparently got to speak to her family before they killed her.

Another was Barbara McClatchie Andrews, a Canadian photographer who was robbed and murdered by an airport bus driver who dumped her body at the roadside in Mexico, authorities say.

Barbara McClatchie Andrews, whose work had appeared in the likes of National Geographic, was found strangled at the side of the road outside Merida, Mexico, on Friday. 
The state Attorney General's office believes the 74-year-old was killed by the bus driver taking her from the airport in Cancun to her home in Merida - after a trip to visit family in Canada.
Married father-of-two Juan Carlos Lopez Martinez, a charter bus driver from Veracruz, has been arrested, local media reports.

Authorities say Andrews was the only passenger on the bus back to Merida after the others got off. Her body was found a few kilometers from her destination by a passing farmer at 7.30am on Friday.

The only way this was solved was that she phoned a relative and told them of her transportation plans from the airport back to Merida.


Read more: Barbara McClatchie Andrews 'robbed and strangled to death by bus driver in Mexico' | Daily Mail Online 
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

I'm not trying to scare you, just make you aware of the risks of "public transportation". Isla Verde has been fortunate but times they are a changing in Mexico. I'm sure there are more incidences so I avoid the taxis and opt for Uber because they can trace the driver, it is safer and a lot cleaner in my opinion and costs less or just take the subway, but you are dealing with a teenager, it may be a different story getting him to school every day.


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## Zorro2017

citlali said:


> When i Mexico city I take buses, subways and taxis off the street , the public transportation there is very good I cannot imagine being afraid of it...


Do you lock your doors at night? There is a big difference between fear, caution and common sense. There is also a big difference between Mexico City and say Cordoba or Orizaba. I never thought twice about taxis until the Spanish woman was kidnapped and killed by a taxi driver and a "policeman." 

More and more taxis are being used to distribute drugs in the Yucatan as they are so common in every part of town. On the night of Saturday April 29, two taxi drivers were shot in the access to Xcalacoco, between the Princess and Azul Fives hotels. Playa del carmen used to be safe, now you can easily just get caught in the crossfire.
http://www.theyucatantimes.com/2017/05/three-homicides-in-playa-del-carmen-in-less-than-72-hours/

I own and drive my own truck here, even the big ADO buses are stopped on the highways and robbed here. I love Mexico and feel safe or I wouldn't live here but I don't walk around with my head in the clouds either.


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## xolo

When I was doing fieldwork in Mexico last year, while in CDMX for a month I took uber all over the city. It is far less expensive than in the US, the cars are new, and I never had any issues. Cars usually arrived in just a few minutes. Mostly I was in Coyoacan and up by the airport, I don't remember the _delegación_, but the colonia was _penitenciaría_ since the national archive used to be a prison. I really enjoyed uber cause you could go places for just 30 - 40 pesos. The only time I had any issues was when a professor at UNAM arranged a car and driver from the university and it was a white knuckles ride for sure during rush hour.


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## ElPocho

Zorro2017 said:


> Oh debates occur here and they are not all civil, but to address your concerns...
> 
> My first thought was of Villar Galaz, 39, who was abducted on the night of Sept. 13 after leaving the offices of IBM Mexico, where she worked as a consultant, *and getting into a taxi for a ride to her home in Mexico City's Polanco district.*
> 
> The kidnappers contacted her family the next day to demand a ransom and the captive's loved ones handed over $3,275 within hours.
> 
> Even so, a woman later identified as Villar Galaz was found dead Sept. 15 in Santiago Tianguistenco, a city in the central state of Mexico.
> 
> Another source I read but cannot find right now said that the taxi driver picked her up, then stopped and a policeman got in also and assisted with the kidnapping, she apparently got to speak to her family before they killed her.
> 
> Another was Barbara McClatchie Andrews, a Canadian photographer who was robbed and murdered by an airport bus driver who dumped her body at the roadside in Mexico, authorities say.
> 
> Barbara McClatchie Andrews, whose work had appeared in the likes of National Geographic, was found strangled at the side of the road outside Merida, Mexico, on Friday.
> The state Attorney General's office believes the 74-year-old was killed by the bus driver taking her from the airport in Cancun to her home in Merida - after a trip to visit family in Canada.
> Married father-of-two Juan Carlos Lopez Martinez, a charter bus driver from Veracruz, has been arrested, local media reports.
> 
> Authorities say Andrews was the only passenger on the bus back to Merida after the others got off. Her body was found a few kilometers from her destination by a passing farmer at 7.30am on Friday.
> 
> The only way this was solved was that she phoned a relative and told them of her transportation plans from the airport back to Merida.
> 
> 
> Read more: Barbara McClatchie Andrews 'robbed and strangled to death by bus driver in Mexico' | Daily Mail Online
> Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
> 
> I'm not trying to scare you, just make you aware of the risks of "public transportation". Isla Verde has been fortunate but times they are a changing in Mexico. I'm sure there are more incidences so I avoid the taxis and opt for Uber because they can trace the driver, it is safer and a lot cleaner in my opinion and costs less or just take the subway, but you are dealing with a teenager, it may be a different story getting him to school every day.


To put things in perspective, it's not just Mexico, people also get killed in Oakland CA. Danger is everywhere, the bad guys in Mexico have different techniques, Mr Fox (Zorro)speaks of techniques used. It's good to heed advice.

Wait till they figure out carjacking Ubers. It's easy, kidnap someone with an Uber account, carjack an Uber, then use the Uber to kidnap some more people. Repeat next day. You'll need a van, to drive hostages to ATM, one or two Judicial police units to provide protection...

One or two gangs and it will be a big scandal. And that might make taxi consortiums a little happy.





Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk


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## ElPocho

ElPocho said:


> To put things in perspective, it's not just Mexico, people also get killed in Oakland CA. Danger is everywhere, the bad guys in Mexico have different techniques, Mr Fox (Zorro)speaks of techniques used. It's good to heed advice.
> 
> Wait till they figure out carjacking Ubers. It's easy, kidnap someone with an Uber account, carjack an Uber, then use the Uber to kidnap some more people. Repeat next day. You'll need a van, to drive hostages to ATM, one or two Judicial police units to provide protection...
> 
> One or two gangs and it will be a big scandal. And that might make taxi consortiums a little happy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk


That just gave me an idea for a patent!!!
Uber and Lyft would have to buy it, but only after thier brand was damaged enough. 

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk


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## UrbanMan

Zorro2017 said:


> Yes really Urbanman, marijuana, even though illegal has been studied in depth by the FDA and other government entities since the 60's
> 
> In 1944 the La Guardia Committee report from the New York Academy of Medicine was the first in a long line of official bodies to question the prohibition. The committee found marijuana not physically addictive, not a gateway drug and that it did not lead to crime.


1944? What did we know about anything in 1944? Think of what a car was in 1944. Think of what a clothes washing machine was in 1944. In 1944, a doctor had an education equivalent to maybe a BSc today. The country was barely out of prohibition, and plenty of people around were still quite anti-alcohol as a scourge on society. A not insignificant minority of people thought that German guy Adolf might be right.

Here's a couple of more current articles for your consideration.

https://www.guystuffcounseling.com/...a-addiction-impacts-couples-and-relationships

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blo...t-your-significant-other-the-effect-marijuana


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## UrbanMan

ElPocho said:


> It's easy, kidnap someone with an Uber account, carjack an Uber, then use the Uber to kidnap some more people. Repeat next day. You'll need a van, to drive hostages to ATM, one or two Judicial police units to provide protection...
> 
> One or two gangs and it will be a big scandal. And that might make taxi consortiums a little happy.


With Uber, as a passenger, a picture of the driver is sent to your phone. So you would need him/her (the driver) to be in on it. And the driver would have to be alone in the vehicle, because no passenger (with a brain) would get into an Uber car with more than just the driver in it. Also, Uber cars are GPS tracked, so if the car went to a very unexpected location, it would be noticed and the details recorded.

Not saying its impossible, but its not that easy either. Uber has been around for awhile. They know a thing or two.


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## xolo

UrbanMan said:


> 1944? What did we know about anything in 1944? Think of what a car was in 1944. Think of what a clothes washing machine was in 1944. In 1944, a doctor had an education equivalent to maybe a BSc today. The country was barely out of prohibition, and plenty of people around were still quite anti-alcohol as a scourge on society. A not insignificant minority of people thought that German guy Adolf might be right.
> 
> Here's a couple of more current articles for your consideration.
> 
> https://www.guystuffcounseling.com/...a-addiction-impacts-couples-and-relationships
> 
> https://www.psychologytoday.com/blo...t-your-significant-other-the-effect-marijuana


Ah yes, the olden days were full of ignorant people. Just like people 70 years from now will think the same of us. Most of us are Darwinian thinkers, thinking the past has culminated in us, but don't think that is the opinion of future generations, there is no endpoint.


----------



## ElPocho

UrbanMan said:


> With Uber, as a passenger, a picture of the driver is sent to your phone. So you would need him/her (the driver) to be in on it. And the driver would have to be alone in the vehicle, because no passenger (with a brain) would get into an Uber car with more than just the driver in it. Also, Uber cars are GPS tracked, so if the car went to a very unexpected location, it would be noticed and the details recorded.
> 
> Not saying its impossible, but its not that easy either. Uber has been around for awhile. They know a thing or two.


I'm thinking like a hacker, not disputing, looking for weaknesses in the security of the system. 

So there are some safe guards, I didn't know about. The biggest one is the picture. Car-jack an Uber with a guy that looks like one of the gang. 

Pickup passenger, Follow the route, pull over with the van close by, thug gets out of van, pull passenger out at gunpoint, and into Van, complete the route.

If police show up at any moment Federal agents, come into play, they "had this all under surveillance, it's under control, we will take over". 

They actually use that line for burglary jobs.


Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk


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## eastwind

One dead after incident involving taxi and Uber drivers in Cancun - The Yucatan Times

And that's why I don't take Uber in Cancun.


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## Zorro2017

eastwind said:


> One dead after incident involving taxi and Uber drivers in Cancun - The Yucatan Times
> 
> And that's why I don't take Uber in Cancun.


There is an ongoing dispute between not only the taxis and Uber but the small converted scooters that can carry a couple of people in the back on bench seat. Both Uber and the scooters are a lot cheaper and don't face the union regulations that the taxis here do,

But, you can't tell an Uber car just by looking at it, this driver knew this particular person was with Uber and "stealing his business."


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## Zorro2017

UrbanMan said:


> 1944? What did we know about anything in 1944? Think of what a car was in 1944. Think of what a clothes washing machine was in 1944. In 1944, a doctor had an education equivalent to maybe a BSc today. The country was barely out of prohibition, and plenty of people around were still quite anti-alcohol as a scourge on society. A not insignificant minority of people thought that German guy Adolf might be right.
> 
> Here's a couple of more current articles for your consideration.
> 
> https://www.guystuffcounseling.com/...a-addiction-impacts-couples-and-relationships
> 
> https://www.psychologytoday.com/blo...t-your-significant-other-the-effect-marijuana


Obviously we knew enough to create a nuclear bomb in 1944. 

I understand, it's hard to admit that you are wrong, but the fact is that our government has been studying marijuana for over fifty years, as stupid as they were even ten years ago, _mainly trying to find something wrong with it._

It is pointless to continue to discuss this as neither one of us are going to change our mind, I say we just move along.


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## UrbanMan

Zorro2017 said:


> I understand, it's hard to admit that you are wrong





Zorro2017 said:


> It is pointless to continue to discuss this as neither one of us are going to change our mind, I say we just move along.


I'm always willing to have my mind changed. But yes, this topic has reached its expiration date.


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## Isla Verde

UrbanMan said:


> I'm always willing to have my mind changed. But yes, this topic has reached its expiration date.


If that's the case, should I close this thread?


----------



## UrbanMan

Isla Verde said:


> If that's the case, should I close this thread?


I'm not into it heavily, but some might have a little more to say about uber, taxis and crime. Not sure.


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## Isla Verde

UrbanMan said:


> I'm not into it heavily, but some might have a little more to say about uber, taxis and crime. Not sure.


That's true. I'll leave it open.


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## ElPocho

One day if we ever meet Zorro and Urban I'll give my two cents. It has to do with national security, productivity of the work force, effectiveness of military versus manageability of the unemployed and marginalized members of society. 

Some day we will have a reunion. 
I'm liking a lot of you folks.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk


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## Isla Verde

ElPocho said:


> One day if we ever meet Zorro and Urban I'll give my two cents. It has to do with national security, productivity of the work force, effectiveness of military versus manageability of the unemployed and marginalized members of society.
> 
> Some day we will have a reunion.
> I'm liking a lot of you folks.
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk


And we like you! Be sure to let me know if you ever find yourself in Mexico City. ¡Te invito a un cafecito!


----------



## ElPocho

Isla Verde said:


> And we like you! Be sure to let me know if you ever find yourself in Mexico City. ¡Te invito a un cafecito!


Ay, muchas gracias!

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk


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## UrbanMan

ElPocho said:


> One day if we ever meet Zorro and Urban I'll give my two cents. It has to do with national security, productivity of the work force, effectiveness of military versus manageability of the unemployed and marginalized members of society.
> 
> Some day we will have a reunion.
> I'm liking a lot of you folks.


When will you be arriving in Mx?


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## ElPocho

UrbanMan said:


> When will you be arriving in Mx?


Still working on the marital separation agreement, should be on the road by Thanksgiving. 


Sent from my moto x4 using Tapatalk


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## ElPocho

Rolled into CDMX last night.
Was a long drive from Laredo, but did it in one shot. 
After Querétaro the intensity picked up. 
Actually felt like a race car driver in some kind of death race. 

Some of my CDMX driving skills came back though not 100%. 

It's been 33 years. Not much that is familiar.

Most people in the northern states that I interacted with, were very friendly and I could make them smile with ease. Even the migration people.

At one restaurant I chatted with some truck drivers that were from Zorro's neck of the woods, they were from La Viga Veracruz. I have an invitation for beans with epazote if I ever go there




Sent from my moto x4 using Tapatalk


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## Zorro2017

Welcome home. I just made a big pot of my famous Buzzard's Breath Chili but no beans, wish you could try some.


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## ElPocho

Zorro2017 said:


> Welcome home. I just made a big pot of my famous Buzzard's Breath Chili but no beans, wish you could try some.


Thanks Brother! 
Does the chili burn both ways?
By the name sounds like it is spicy
LOL...

That reminds me, I swung by Rudy's in Laredo. I wasn't expecting much from a chain, the Que was excellent! 
I can do a mean BBQ, but they are much better. I can still taste that Brisket and the pork loin.
After a marathon drive it was good food for the soul!

Sides were OK....



Sent from my moto x4 using Tapatalk


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## Zorro2017

ElPocho said:


> Thanks Brother!
> Does the chili burn both ways?
> By the name sounds like it is spicy
> LOL...
> 
> That reminds me, I swung by Rudy's in Laredo. I wasn't expecting much from a chain, the Que was excellent!
> I can do a mean BBQ, but they are much better. I can still taste that Brisket and the pork loin.
> After a marathon drive it was good food for the soul!
> 
> Sides were OK....
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my moto x4 using Tapatalk


It indeed burns coming and going.


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## eastwind

I always thought you can't have chili without beans, that if there's no beans it's sloppy joe.


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## Zorro2017

eastwind said:


> I always thought you can't have chili without beans, that if there's no beans it's sloppy joe.


IMO, real chili doesn't have beans or onions, you add them to a bowl individually if preferred. Onions cooked into the chili make it sweet.


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## TundraGreen

Zorro2017 said:


> IMO, real chili doesn't have beans or onions, you add them to a bowl individually if preferred. Onions cooked into the chili make it sweet.


That is an old argument. Half the world thinks real chili has beans and half think not.


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## Isla Verde

TundraGreen said:


> That is an old argument. Half the world thinks real chili has beans and half think not.


And then there are those who could care less!


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## TundraGreen

Isla Verde said:


> And then there are those who could care less!


And some who couldn't care less.


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## Zorro2017

TundraGreen said:


> And some who couldn't care less.


I'm not the one who asked.


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## ElPocho

Zorro2017 said:


> IMO, real chili doesn't have beans or onions, you add them to a bowl individually if preferred. Onions cooked into the chili make it sweet.


Aside from the regular onions try this...
Soak minced white onions in a light solution of water and vinegar, for a couple of hours. 
Mix in the onion in the last phase of cooking the chili, do this instead of vinegar.


Sent from my moto x4 using Tapatalk


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## robbiethinking

UrbanMan said:


> Unless the teenager, all of whom want to fit in, feels he has to drink to be one of the gang.
> 
> I personally think a teenager having some exposure to alcohol is not a tragedy. As long as it is contained its fine. Part of life experience, part of preparing for true adulthood.


We brought our daughter up to expect wine at the table for family meals. At quite a young age she quickly adapted and could gauge the effect - half a glass which she sipped was her usual limit by the time she was 8 or 9 years old

The result was that later, at high school parties, when all her friends were tgetting drunk and falling over puking everywhere, she'd come back home after an hour or so, telling us how stupid and childish they all were. Alcohol was never a big thing for her . . .


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## robbiethinking

Zorro2017 said:


> Some might be shocked but Germany embraces a different attitude toward alcohol, I personally have no problem with it.
> 
> A Google search results in....In Germany, there are 3 drinking ages: 13 – minors are allowed to consume beer or wine with their parents or legal guardian. 16 – minors are allowed to consume beer or wine without their parents or legal guardian. 18 – adults are allowed to consume distilled alcohol.


When my daughter was about 10, we all came to the USA for a 2-month vacation (from England) We were horrified to find out that we couldn't bring her with us when we wanted to stop in a bar for a drink. All her life, in the UK we took her into pubs and bars with us - the pubs often had playgrounds and some even had creches for the babies.

It seems that nations with repressive attitudes towards alcohol always produce young people who just can't wait to get drunk - as a lecturer at an English university I (we) would always dread seeing new students from the USA, Norway or Sweden, as inevitably they were senseless for the first half-semester.


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## Isla Verde

robbiethinking said:


> We brought our daughter up to expect wine at the table for family meals. At quite a young age she quickly adapted and could gauge the effect - half a glass which she sipped was her usual limit by the time she was 8 or 9 years old
> 
> The result was that later, at high school parties, when all her friends were tgetting drunk and falling over puking everywhere, she'd come back home after an hour or so, telling us how stupid and childish they all were. Alcohol was never a big thing for her . . .


Growing up Jewish in the States, I was used to having wine at holiday meals, though the awful kosher wine then in vogue should have turned me into a teetotaler, though it didn't. However, I did get used to the idea that wine was part of a festive meal, not a quick way to get drunk!


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## Meritorious-MasoMenos

ElPocho said:


> Taxis get car-jacked then driven around looking for a target.
> 
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk


This was a big problem in late 90s and early aughts. I lived in the D.F. all of 2015. All my Mexican friends said it was no longer a problem and I took many taxis without the paranoia I had 15 years ago. I was in and out for biz all the time, and Mex friends would practically tackle me if I tried to flag down a street taxi. Always called for one or found a sitio taxi, but of course with a series of biz appointments, some times I had to flag down a taxi but wow, checking license, picture, looking to see if it looked counterfeit. A tactic back then was the taxi would pull over to allow an armed guy to jump in, so I had several near heart attacks when driver switched suddenly to right lane and slowed. Nothing ever happened.

My Mexican friends are very protective (well, it goes both ways. We were all in DC's center when the two 85 quakes hit and worked 90 straight days in harrowing emergency conditions together in a journalist entity). In 2015, various of them shepherded me around on various mundane tasks to make sure no one took advantage, but taxis, they said hail them with no concern now. Were they wrong?


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## Meritorious-MasoMenos

robbiethinking said:


> When my daughter was about 10, we all came to the USA for a 2-month vacation (from England) We were horrified to find out that we couldn't bring her with us when we wanted to stop in a bar for a drink. All her life, in the UK we took her into pubs and bars with us - the pubs often had playgrounds and some even had creches for the babies.
> 
> It seems that nations with repressive attitudes towards alcohol always produce young people who just can't wait to get drunk - as a lecturer at an English university I (we) would always dread seeing new students from the USA, Norway or Sweden, as inevitably they were senseless for the first half-semester.


Strange, because from the time I was young to raising teens in U.S. with last hitting 20 in 2012, no U.S. teen has trouble getting alcohol (and even at McLean High School VA, one of wealthiest and supposedly best public high schools in U.S., every possible drug available, with upper classmen drawing in freshmen [fresh people?] IMMEDIATELY). Maybe it was the fission of drinking legally? Do UK pubs shut off drinkers when they get obviously blotto? I know few other countries have our civil law suit system that supports tens of thousands of lawyers in comfort, so U.S. bars liable to hundreds of thousands of damagein damages if they don't cut off an inebriated soul.


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## Zorro2017

Meritorious-MasoMenos said:


> This was a big problem in late 90s and early aughts. I lived in the D.F. all of 2015. All my Mexican friends said it was no longer a problem and I took many taxis without the paranoia I had 15 years ago. I was in and out for biz all the time, and Mex friends would practically tackle me if I tried to flag down a street taxi. Always called for one or found a sitio taxi, but of course with a series of biz appointments, some times I had to flag down a taxi but wow, checking license, picture, looking to see if it looked counterfeit. A tactic back then was the taxi would pull over to allow an armed guy to jump in, so I had several near heart attacks when driver switched suddenly to right lane and slowed. Nothing ever happened.
> 
> My Mexican friends are very protective (well, it goes both ways. We were all in DC's center when the two 85 quakes hit and worked 90 straight days in harrowing emergency conditions together in a journalist entity). In 2015, various of them shepherded me around on various mundane tasks to make sure no one took advantage, but taxis, they said hail them with no concern now. Were they wrong?


 Taxi, Uber and Cabify drivers have all been arrested and charged with kidnapping, rape or murder in Mexico but it is not an every day thing, I'd say it's quite rare.


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## Meritorious-MasoMenos

Zorro2017 said:


> Taxi, Uber and Cabify drivers have all been arrested and charged with kidnapping, rape or murder in Mexico but it is not an every day thing, I'd say it's quite rare.


Good to hear it's rare. Of course, in U.S. taxi and Uber drivers have also been arrested and charged with robbery and rape, but rare as well.

I do guiltily enjoy videos by U.S. Uber drivers of their passengers acting badly. One recent viral of a teen girl stealing driver tip was a hoot. She kept looking in rear view mirror to make sure driver was not looking, unaware that was where camera was placed. Most hilarious was of course of since fired Uber founder arguing with driver when driver complained how miserably Uber treated drivers.


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## Theo Barbosa

ElPocho said:


> Sorry about typos, spell checker replaces words sometimes, grr!
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk


Hello! my name is Theo and I'm about to move to Mexico city from Finland. Would you recommend Greengate or ASF more? I would love a reply! have a good day!


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