# what is a living wage for a family of 4?



## mightymouserunning (Feb 3, 2009)

hi,

First up - i know this isn't a great time to be immigrating, however i married a Saffa and promised we go to the sun and, well, SA whilst i love it scares the **** out me. 

Spain is as close i can get to Africa whilst staying in the Euro, close to Gogo's and Granny etc. 

We are learning the lingo, and i've started an online business to keep me busy as I'm guessing not a huge demand for Personal Trainers out there at present, outside of the very wealthy which is always a difficult market to crack. However i don't anticipate this turning any significant money for a year or so - if at all!

We will be downsize and keep a small property in UK as a bolt hole, then look to rent in Spain. We will need to live off what B- my wife can earn as a teacher.

Guessing she will be offered a place in either Valcencia or Malaga regions, which means we need around 500 - 700 euros a month for rent. 

So my question is if we forgo eating out fripperies can i run a house 2 adults / 2 kids on a teachers salary. I would do all the child care to start with, but if anyone can give me a clue i will need some help at some point as i'll need to do some face to face selling in the UK. My kids are 2 and 3 respectively so i guess i'm talking daycare, and occasionally someone to pick them up and mind them till Mum gates home from school at around 5pm?

Primary teachers salary is between 1200E min - 2000E max (gross)


All thoughts appreciated.

M


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

mightymouserunning said:


> hi,
> 
> First up - i know this isn't a great time to be immigrating, however i married a Saffa and promised we go to the sun and, well, SA whilst i love it scares the **** out me.
> 
> ...



Well if you are in Valencia or Malage then I'm guessing that you will find things tight. We live well out of the cities and although we dont live an extravagent lifestyle we need at least €1000 clear to have a decent life. But it depends if you get the €1200 or €2000 really doesnt it. In the current climate do you think you will find it easy to get a job or have you something already sorted?


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

mightymouserunning said:


> hi,
> 
> First up - i know this isn't a great time to be immigrating, however i married a Saffa and promised we go to the sun and, well, SA whilst i love it scares the **** out me.
> 
> ...


I live in Malaga Province, its not the cheapest area I dont think. I have two children 11 and 14 yrs old and a husband that is only here for a week a month. Excluding rent and my sons school fees (husband pays for those). I scrape by on 1500 euros a month. That includes bills, petrol, food, daughters horseriding once a week (30 euros) and Spanish lessons (30 euros a week). On the odd occasion if I have anything left over, we go out to eat for a treat. I'm not extravagant, but I dont skimp on food (kids are fussy and there has be some heinz and fizzy drinks or life wouldnt be worth living lol)

I guess if you can rent for under 500 euros and keep your bills low then it could be done. I dont know how much childcare costs here, I think that children under the age of 6 dont go to school, but there are nursery schools - I dont know if you have to pay tho! 


Jo


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## mightymouserunning (Feb 3, 2009)

Stravinsky said:


> Well if you are in Valencia or Malage then I'm guessing that you will find things tight. We live well out of the cities and although we dont live an extravagent lifestyle we need at least €1000 clear to have a decent life. But it depends if you get the €1200 or €2000 really doesnt it. In the current climate do you think you will find it easy to get a job or have you something already sorted?



Thanks for your reply dude.

I don't plan on getting a job in Spain - though i would aim to build a small Personal Training business in time if we are in the South, but both a PT business and the online business would take a while to get going. Not found any marketing networks for fitness professionals yet.

B, my wife, will be offered a teaching job in an International school sooner or later...

You said a 1000 clear in the sticks, is that for a family? There is a position going in Gallica, which must i guess have a lower cost of living, even if the the flights home are more expensive....

What would be the % deductions from tax/ni from a salary of 1200E - 2000E pm?

Thanks again.

M


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

mightymouserunning said:


> Thanks for your reply dude.
> 
> I don't plan on getting a job in Spain - though i would aim to build a small Personal Training business in time if we are in the South, but both a PT business and the online business would take a while to get going. Not found any marketing networks for fitness professionals yet.
> 
> ...


I would strongly advise you make sure your wife gets a job offer before you come out here. I know most international schools here advertise and interview in the UK, my sons certainly does and they have an awful lot of applicants. 

I cant help you with the deductions, sorry

Jo


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## mightymouserunning (Feb 3, 2009)

jojo said:


> I live in Malaga Province, its not the cheapest area I dont think. I have two children 11 and 14 yrs old and a husband that is only here for a week a month. Excluding rent and my sons school fees (husband pays for those). I scrape by on 1500 euros a month. That includes bills, petrol, food, daughters horseriding once a week (30 euros) and Spanish lessons (30 euros a week). On the odd occasion if I have anything left over, we go out to eat for a treat. I'm not extravagant, but I dont skimp on food (kids are fussy and there has be some heinz and fizzy drinks or life wouldnt be worth living lol)
> 
> I guess if you can rent for under 500 euros and keep your bills low then it could be done. I dont know how much childcare costs here, I think that children under the age of 6 dont go to school, but there are nursery schools - I don't know if you have to pay tho!
> 
> ...


Thanks for your reply Jo 


So assuming even if B got the full 2000E, after deductions (not sure what tax NI % is) and rent (700E in Malaga), then we are probably around 500E a month short...

M


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

mightymouserunning said:


> Thanks for your reply Jo
> 
> 
> So assuming even if B got the full 2000E, after deductions (not sure what tax NI % is) and rent (700E in Malaga), then we are probably around 500E a month short...
> ...



It very much depends on how you want to live. As I've said, I'm not particularly frugal or extravagent. We came here to enjoy life and to live it. But to be honest since the exchange rate dropped and my income is in sterling, I've had a struggle. When we arrived here last year, my £1,500 "allowance" was good. But now its lost by about 20%. Food prices have shot up over here and I'm struggling a bit. 

What you have to ask yourself is, do you want to come here and struggle or do you want to enjoy life??? Cos lets face it - and I KNOW that money worries cause big arguments and make everyone unhappy, wherever you live.

First thing you need to know is what sort of take home pay your wife could get and whether she can get a job. Then take a look at what sort of properties are around and how much rental and bills are - you may not like the sort of thing thats available for 700 E a month

Jo


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## mightymouserunning (Feb 3, 2009)

jojo said:


> I would strongly advise you make sure your wife gets a job offer before you come out here. I know most international schools here advertise and interview in the UK, my sons certainly does and they have an awful lot of applicants.
> 
> I cant help you with the deductions, sorry
> 
> Jo


Absolutely no intention of turning up without at least one salary...

Can anyone help with the deductions query?

Any teachers or fit professionals out there?

thanks M


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## mightymouserunning (Feb 3, 2009)

jojo said:


> It very much depends on how you want to live. As I've said, I'm not particularly frugal or extravagent. We came here to enjoy life and to live it. But to be honest since the exchange rate dropped and my income is in sterling, I've had a struggle. When we arrived here last year, my £1,500 "allowance" was good. But now its lost by about 20%. Food prices have shot up over here and I'm struggling a bit.
> 
> What you have to ask yourself is, do you want to come here and struggle or do you want to enjoy life??? Cos lets face it - and I KNOW that money worries cause big arguments and make everyone unhappy, wherever you live.
> 
> ...


Fair comment - thanks Jo. Think personally in an ideal world (i.e. i can keep my current Fitness business on tick over) we'd stay in UK for another year, whilst developing the new online business at least to the point where i can tell whether there is a market for it.

however my wife isn't sure she can hack another winter in the UK... 

Still come what may the job offer needs to come first, not to mention selling the house and buying a flat as a bolt hole. Bit by bit - eh 

M


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

mightymouserunning said:


> Thanks for your reply dude.
> 
> I don't plan on getting a job in Spain - though i would aim to build a small Personal Training business in time if we are in the South, but both a PT business and the online business would take a while to get going. Not found any marketing networks for fitness professionals yet.
> 
> ...


You mentioned your wife cant stand another winter in the UK? Do you know what the weather is like in Galicia?

€1000 is for two of us


Deductions for tax:
Spanish tax rates and allowances 2008. Tax rates Spain.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Stravinsky said:


> You mentioned your wife cant stand another winter in the UK? Do you know what the weather is like in Galicia?


.... and as for the weather in Malaga???!!! Its been cold, wet and windy more or less since October. January I was scraping ice off my windscreen and the last week it has rained and rained and rained, I think there was one day when I sat outside in the sun.. We had a tornado at the weekend and last night the rain and thunder kept me awake all night.

The weather has been the biggest shock for me (if you look thro my threads I keep banging on about it lol), I really did think that it would be almost like a british summer here in the winter, but hell no!!!! It was lovely to go back to the UK at christmas just to enjoy carpets and central heating and to warm up!!!


Jo


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## mightymouserunning (Feb 3, 2009)

jojo said:


> .... and as for the weather in Malaga???!!! Its been cold, wet and windy more or less since October. January I was scraping ice off my windscreen and the last week it has rained and rained and rained, I think there was one day when I sat outside in the sun.. We had a tornado at the weekend and last night the rain and thunder kept me awake all night.
> 
> The weather has been the biggest shock for me (if you look thro my threads I keep banging on about it lol), I really did think that it would be almost like a british summer here in the winter, but hell no!!!! It was lovely to go back to the UK at christmas just to enjoy carpets and central heating and to warm up!!!
> 
> ...


Have some friends out in marbella and they say it's been coldest winter for years if thats any consolation.

M


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## mightymouserunning (Feb 3, 2009)

Stravinsky said:


> You mentioned your wife cant stand another winter in the UK? Do you know what the weather is like in Galicia?
> 
> €1000 is for two of us
> 
> ...


thanks Stravinsky, yes i think Galicia is probably not going to make the short list. B had a look a the weather. Looks very pretty - the country boy in me would love it, but seems distinguished only by a booming smuggling scene, and throwing up Dictators with immense stamina - i gather both Franco and Castro hail from that neck of the woods.

Thanks again, M


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## SteveHall (Oct 17, 2008)

What history lessons did you miss?? Castro was born in Cuba. That is an island raaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaather a long way off the Galician coast LOL.


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## mightymouserunning (Feb 3, 2009)

SteveHall said:


> What history lessons did you miss?? Castro was born in Cuba. That is an island raaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaather a long way off the Galician coast LOL.



his roots are in Galicia old bean, but thanks for the geography 101


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## SteveHall (Oct 17, 2008)

Sometimes, I wonder if my sarcasm is missed LOL


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## mightymouserunning (Feb 3, 2009)

SteveHall said:


> Sometimes, I wonder if my sarcasm is missed LOL


Not missed old bean, ignored.


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## mightymouserunning (Feb 3, 2009)

unnecessary grumpiness on my part - apologies. M


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

mightymouserunning said:


> thanks Stravinsky, yes i think Galicia is probably not going to make the short list. B had a look a the weather. Looks very pretty - the country boy in me would love it, but seems distinguished only by a booming smuggling scene, and throwing up Dictators with immense stamina - i gather both Franco and Castro hail from that neck of the woods.
> 
> Thanks again, M


Have a look at my pics site for Galicia (Santiago, Lugo, Pontevedre)


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## mightymouserunning (Feb 3, 2009)

Stravinsky said:


> Have a look at my pics site for Galicia (Santiago, Lugo, Pontevedre)



does like there's some fantastic buildings there - need to see these places in the flesh i guess.

M


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