# Renting in a Spanish city



## Tamarindo (Feb 14, 2016)

I'm wondering what it is like to rent an apartment in a Spanish city or town, as opposed to a resort. I plan to move to Valencia city in about six months (referendum willing) and am still not sure if I should rent or buy. Problem is, I can live in a much better area if I rent. Spaniards I have talked to here tell me it is a better idea too. 

However, any experience I have had with British landlords has taught me they are horrendous, with their intrusive checks and "no pictures on the walls" etc etc. I'm comparing this to Canada, where I am from originally, and where you are not thought to be a basket case/sociopath/weirdo if you rent and there is less harassment by the landlords and more leeway. My policy in Britain has always been to buy to avoid the sheer aggro of it all.

I know the UK has abysmal tenant law, but I also know that Spain has way higher home ownership rates than Britain. Spaniards also tell me that renting is not their mindset. Surely that means that renting is thought to be non-standard and renting could be problematic? Anyone have any experience of long-term renting? Your advice would be appreciated.


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## Horlics (Sep 27, 2011)

Are you wondering what it's like to live in a city vs. a town, or is your interest in the differences in renting between the two.

If you're wondering how different life would be then you're certainly not ready to buy. Purchase costs are high in Spain and you need to get it right first time if you're going to avoid handing a lot of cash to the tax man.

If it's the latter you are wondering about, then I would say there isn't a huge difference between renting in a city vs. a town. The laws are the same and I am struggling to imagine what other differences there might be. I know people who rent in resorts and in cities and both have pretty much the same experience as far as the rules and regs and interaction with landlords go.

I didn't realise that the UK has abysmal tenant law. Landlords I know have had to call on their insurers when tenants have covered smoke alarms with plastic bags and turned rooms yellow, missed 2 months payments, and then scarpered with no hope of the landlord recovering anything. That said, these are landlords in the HMO game with low quality tenants paying low amounts. People I know who rent up-market homes at the expensive end of the market have had no problems.

I admit to not knowing much about in any other countries but the UK law seems fair to me. 

I would think that if you find a nice apartment and sign an agreement, you shouldn't have any problems.


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## Tamarindo (Feb 14, 2016)

Horlics said:


> I didn't realise that the UK has abysmal tenant law ... I admit to not knowing much about in any other countries but the UK law seems fair to me.


I actually do want to live in a Spanish city and I'm really just concerned about renting, in case the landlords are anything like those in the UK. Relatives who rent in Canada are open-mouthed about UK landlords' behaviour - very intrusive, suspicious etc and this is in a decent property with good tenants. 

So obviously I don't want to end up with anotherone if that's also the case in Spain. I'll just buy a place, albeit in not a great area (with capital from a house sale in the UK). I know about the buying costs.

However, I would like to rent in a better area if I knew that Spanish landlords are in general OK. That's why I was asking if anyone has rented in a Spanish city.

By the way, UK tenant law is abysmal because it has six-month contracts and landlords can throw someone out for no reason on two months' notice. There is also no real control on rent rises. That does make for any kind of stability, and internationally it doesn't compare favourably at all.


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## Horlics (Sep 27, 2011)

Tamarindo said:


> I actually do want to live in a Spanish city and I'm really just concerned about renting, in case the landlords are anything like those in the UK. Relatives who rent in Canada are open-mouthed about UK landlords' behaviour - very intrusive, suspicious etc and this is in a decent property with good tenants.
> 
> So obviously I don't want to end up with anotherone if that's also the case in Spain. I'll just buy a place, albeit in not a great area (with capital from a house sale in the UK). I know about the buying costs.
> 
> ...


I would be surprised if all landlords in Spain were either good or bad. I think you will find a mix, with the bad ones being allowed to get away with only so much as the law allows.

A bit like the UK - Good and bad landlords, and good and bad tenants. 

I saw a consumer programme in the UK a few months ago. A guy had bought a house but didn't want to move in within the next year. He bought it when he did because prices were rising fast, so his plan was to let it out for the first 12 months at least.

The very first tenant to move in didn't pay the first rent due. He fobbed the landlord off a few times before the landlord eventually went to the house to see him. He found the locks changed and 4 tenants in situ, to whom the actual tenant had sub-letted. The "abysmal tenant UK law" protected the tenants to whom the property had been sub-let. To cut a long story short, it was over 6 months before the owner was allowed access to his house, by which time all fixtures and fittings had been removed.

He changed his plans and moved into the house as soon as he could because he wouldn't entertain the idea of letting it out again.


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## AllHeart (Nov 22, 2013)

Tamarindo, I've rented in Ontario many times so I'm very familiar with the Ontario Landlord Tenant Act. Is that where you're drawing comparisons? I also rent in Malaga. I've never lived in the UK. So if you're looking to draw comparisons between renting in a city in Spain (Malaga) vs Ontario, I can help you out.


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## Barriej (Jul 23, 2012)

We rent here in the UK and while you are correct about six month leases, after that they become rolling monthly. Unless you then agree another lease with the landlord.

We've been in the same flat now for 11 months and I've never met the landlord, my money goes to him via standing order every month. Any issues we have had are dealt with quickly by the agent we went to, although they don't manage the let. (The flat we are in said no pets, no hanging stuff up, but we have a cat and a snake and I got them to put a clause in the rental agreement that I would fill any holes drilled for the TV etc before we left) that's why there is a deposit scheme as well.

I know many other people in the area we live who rent and not one of them have had any issues. Must be your bad luck.

I also know people who rent in Spain and with one exception, none of them have had any problems either.

Obviously there is good and bad everywhere but as long as you are honest and agree terms I can't see why there would be problems.

And as to your original question, I would not expect there to be any difference between renting in Cities, towns or out in the countryside, but it all comes down to what the owner the agent and the tenant want out of the deal.


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## thrax (Nov 13, 2008)

Before we moved here we rented in UK for our final 4 years. Our landlord never bothered us and we were allowed to decorate if we wanted. The rent was paid by direct debit and he only visited if something was wrong and we asked him to come. In Spain we have had pretty much the same experience. A very fair landlord who never bothers us. One of the ways people feel about their rented home (and I am talking about Spanish views here) is that once you are renting it IS your home. We are allowed to decorate and put pictures on walls, have holes drilled to allow internet cabling, satellite dishes put up and holes drilled for that cabling. The idea is that when you move out you make sure you fix the holes etc. Obviously there are tenants the world over who don't behave properly but I suspect they are probably a minority.


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## Chopera (Apr 22, 2013)

I rent out property in the UK and agree with a lot of what the OP says regarding 6 month contracts. They don't give enough security to the tenant, and force families into buying, especially in more rural areas where the supply of rental accommodation may be low. Even if the contract becomes a rolling one (which needs to be agreed first) the landlord only needs to give 2 months notice before terminating the contract. That may be ok if you`re single or a couple living in a city, but not if you are a family who needs to be near a school for example.

In Spain I feel the desire to own property is not so much down to rental laws, which generally favour the tenant more than in the UK, but the fact that for many generations property was the only form of investment available to them, so everybody bought, which then led to the self-fulfilling belief that property only ever went up in value. Until of course the bubble eventually burst. But even so, Spaniards still tend to pile their money into property more than other asset classes.

Having said that, and as others have mentioned, a lot of experiences of renting just come down to luck. In Spain renters nearly always deal directly with the landlord rather than an agent and, while the laws in Spain may favour the tenant, there are always landlords who dont think it applies to them. Particularly when it comes to returning deposits (which in the UK have to be held in a separate account by law) and maintaining the property.


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## Tamarindo (Feb 14, 2016)

Thanks for the info, everyone. As I say, I have rented in the UK a number of times, always pay rent bang on time, no anti-social behaviour, etc etc but I guess it's the general attitude towards renters. I always buy there now, would never even consider renting. Many UK people I know over 40 laugh in disbelief if you say you rent. I know it is not the same in many parts of Europe. Just trying to get a feel for things.


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## Tamarindo (Feb 14, 2016)

AllHeart said:


> Tamarindo, I've rented in Ontario many times so I'm very familiar with the Ontario Landlord Tenant Act. Is that where you're drawing comparisons? I also rent in Malaga. I've never lived in the UK. So if you're looking to draw comparisons between renting in a city in Spain (Malaga) vs Ontario, I can help you out.


Thank you for this post. Not many here know Ontario. Have not rented there for many years, but some family members do and they can't believe the behaviour of many UK landlords. 

I think it's down to the fact that in the UK they have an emotional connection to their flats/houses and think they are doing you a massive favour to let you live in it. In the experiences of myself and others in the UK, many properties are dirty when you move in, not something I've encountered elsewhere. A request to put up six pictures has meant a long email correspondence and an official document giving permission! 

You say you rent in Malaga. How has it been, compared to experiences in other countries? Did you arrange it through an agent and what is the rental contract like? I am staying in an Air b&b flat this winter, but when I move here in a few months I will need to rent for a bit before I (maybe) buy. Do you need references, residencia etc.

Many thanks if you can fill me in on a bit of it.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Tamarindo said:


> Thank you for this post. Not many here know Ontario. Have not rented there for many years, but some family members do and they can't believe the behaviour of many UK landlords.
> 
> I think it's down to the fact that in the UK they have an emotional connection to their flats/houses and think they are doing you a massive favour to let you live in it. In the experiences of myself and others in the UK, many properties are dirty when you move in, not something I've encountered elsewhere. A request to put up six pictures has meant a long email correspondence and an official document giving permission!
> 
> ...


There's a pro-forma rental contract here , which fulfils current law Nuevo contrato modelo de alquiler de una vivienda tras los cambios en la ley de arrendamientos — idealista/news


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## AllHeart (Nov 22, 2013)

Tamarindo said:


> Thank you for this post. Not many here know Ontario. Have not rented there for many years, but some family members do and they can't believe the behaviour of many UK landlords.
> 
> I think it's down to the fact that in the UK they have an emotional connection to their flats/houses and think they are doing you a massive favour to let you live in it. In the experiences of myself and others in the UK, many properties are dirty when you move in, not something I've encountered elsewhere. A request to put up six pictures has meant a long email correspondence and an official document giving permission!


I'd be hesitant to make sweeping generalisations about landlords and rental units in the whole of the UK - England, Ireland, Wales, Scotland and Ireland!  But I can say that what you describe is also found in cities I've rented in Ontario. I rented for over 30 years in various cities throughout Southern Ontario, but rarely had a problem because I'm good at screening. As for putting holes in the walls, that was not allowed in rental units in Ontario until about the last 20 years, but often you will be required to fill the holes and paint the walls upon leaving. 

As to what you say about attitudes re renting vs buying, it's the same where I lived in Ontario, that home ownership is considered the wiser and higher-class approach. In 2013, home ownership rate was higher in Canada (67.6%) than in the UK (64.6%), and higher in Spain (77.7%) than in Canada.

From here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_home_ownership_rate



Tamarindo said:


> You say you rent in Malaga. How has it been, compared to experiences in other countries? Did you arrange it through an agent and what is the rental contract like? I am staying in an Air b&b flat this winter, but when I move here in a few months I will need to rent for a bit before I (maybe) buy. Do you need references, residencia etc.
> 
> Many thanks if you can fill me in on a bit of it.


My only comparison in renting is cities in Southern Ontario vs Malaga. I've rented here for 1-1/2 years, the same apt. No, I did not rent through an agent. If you use an agent, it is typically one month's rent, and I wanted to save that, so I took a big risk and did not use an agent. I did not use references and did not have anything but my Spanish passport and Spanish citizenship as ID. I didn't even have a Spanish bank account or any references of any kind. So my landlord took a big chance on me too. But it has worked out really well and we're both very happy with each other.

Some of the big differences between Ontario and Malaga are as follows:

- Apartment rentals are typically furnished here.

- (Referring to an earlier post of yours.) Written permission has to be obtained from the tenant to enter the apt here; whereas in Ontario the _landlord _needs to only give written 24-hour notice.

- A contract can go up to three or even five years here, but in Ontario it's only one year. There are also short-term contracts (under 12 months, typically 6) and holiday lets (less than 3 months). A long-term contract is 12 months or more, and that's what you want to get, since the tenant laws protect you more. My first contract was 6 months, and now it's one year, which is about to lapse.

- The tenancy law in Spain is federal; whereas it's provincial in Canada.

- Typically here the water and electricity bills are added to the rental price (they're typically included in Ontario).

- They have community fees for rentals here (not in Ontario, unless you're in a condominium).

- Rentals here need an energy rating (no such thing in Ontario).

- Due to how buildings are constructed here, you can often hear your neighbours through the walls and floors and especially if you have exterior window. That's not something I'm used to in Canada.

Well, that's all I can think of now. But feel free to ask any questions.

(I hope if I've said something wrong, others will correct me.)


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## bob_bob (Jan 5, 2011)

I'm a UK landlord with well over ten properties on my portfolio; letting agents do all the work for me.

My tenants have an initial six month contract with a house inspection towards the end. If they are happy and I am happy they can have another six month contract or a 2.5 year lease. The 2.5 year lease means they are guaranteed no rent increases but if they finish early they will have a penalty to pay.

All tenants have contact numbers to the power and gas providers should they have a problem; the boiler et al breaks down they phone the service provider THEN the letting agents and its fixed. Any problems with the house and they phone the letting agents and the problem gets fixed fast. A happy tenant looks after THEIR home.

They can decorate using paint but not wallpaper as if and when they leave after three years I re-paint the house anyway.

I expect any gardens they have to be kept tidy.

I as a rule have no problems with tenants, not all UK landlords are bad and I resent the OP's grand sweeping statements to the contrary.


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## AllHeart (Nov 22, 2013)

I forgot something else.... In Ontario, you can use your last month's deposit as last month's rent, then they go after you for damages. Here in Spain, you don't get to do that. You get your last month's deposit when you leave (if there are no damages and if the landlord acts in good faith), and the landlord has a month after you leave to pay it back.

P.S. I'm really tired today, so extra wordy!


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## Tamarindo (Feb 14, 2016)

bob_bob said:


> I as a rule have no problems with tenants, not all UK landlords are bad and I resent the OP's grand sweeping statements to the contrary.[/QUOT
> 
> I think that the problem with landlords is worst when they only have one property, true.
> 
> ...


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## Tamarindo (Feb 14, 2016)

AllHeart said:


> My only comparison in renting is cities in Southern Ontario vs Malaga. I've rented here for 1-1/2 years, the same apt. No, I did not rent through an agent. If you use an agent, it is typically one month's rent, and I wanted to save that, so I took a big risk and did not use an agent. I did not use references and did not have anything but my Spanish passport and Spanish citizenship as ID. I didn't even have a Spanish bank account or any references of any kind. So my landlord took a big chance on me too. But it has worked out really well and we're both very happy with each other.
> 
> Some of the big differences between Ontario and Malaga are as follows:
> 
> ...



Thank you for this info. Some of it I am used to. I know that with UK rentals none of the bills are included either, unlike in Canada. I also know that most Spanish apartments are furnished, although I am going to try for one that isn't. On all the websites such as fotocasa.es, there are far fewer apartments without furniture, but I prefer that and there are some that are unfurnished.

The point about written permission from the tenant is good. 

Maybe because you had a Spanish passport and citizenship, it was not so important for you to have other references etc? Although my current pension income is not good (until I get the UK pension at age 66 hwell I am hoping that any landlord (and the Spanish government) will look at my house-sale capital too and realise that I can pay my bills.

I am not so worried about hearing neighbours etc as from experience I know this is a noisy country and that's the way it is, unless you live in the country. Quiet is a thing I have probably had too much of in a dead-as-a-doornail town in northern England!


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## Tamarindo (Feb 14, 2016)

AllHeart said:


> I forgot something else.... In Ontario, you can use your last month's deposit as last month's rent, then they go after you for damages. Here in Spain, you don't get to do that. You get your last month's deposit when you leave (if there are no damages and if the landlord acts in good faith), and the landlord has a month after you leave to pay it back.
> 
> P.S. I'm really tired today, so extra wordy!


Yes, I remember, it's first and last month , isn't it? I have read in a few places that it's difficult to get a deposit back from a landlord in Spain, but I guess it varies.


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## AllHeart (Nov 22, 2013)

You're very welcome. 

Yes, in Ontario it's first and last month's rent, but if you skip out early on a lease you will lose your last month as a deposit. But in Spain it is first month and deposit. Some furnished apts can ask for two months' worth rent deposit, though I didn't have to pay that.

Just a little tip to help you get along here on the forum: You may want to consider that the vast majority of people on this forum are from the UK, and that it's really irrelevant and unnecessary to knock the UK, since you're on a forum about Spain. You can take the tip or leave it, of course. Just saying.


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## AllHeart (Nov 22, 2013)

Sorry for saying that tip. I'm tired and not thinking straight. Not my place to say that.


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## Tamarindo (Feb 14, 2016)

AllHeart said:


> Sorry for saying that tip. I'm tired and not thinking straight. Not my place to say that.


Sure, no worries. Actually I've been a British citizen myself for almost 20 years (dual), taxpayer and all that.


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## Horlics (Sep 27, 2011)

Chopera said:


> I rent out property in the UK and agree with a lot of what the OP says regarding 6 month contracts. They don't give enough security to the tenant


I agree, they don't. So my tenant asked me for a year and I agreed and signed.


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## captainendeavour (Jan 14, 2016)

"By the way, UK tenant law is abysmal because it has six-month contracts" Eh? 

When friends of mine rented out their lovely 5 bedroom Edwardian house in Muswell Hill, the first tenants were there for a year and, despite being professional, upmarket people, trashed the place. They had not touched the garden in all that time.

The next tenants were a German couple who arrived a deux and left, SEVEN YEARS LATER with two children, leaving the place pretty neat and tidy except for many bicycle bumps on the walls in the hallway.


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## AllHeart (Nov 22, 2013)

Tamarindo said:


> Sure, no worries. Actually I've been a British citizen myself for almost 20 years (dual), taxpayer and all that.


Thanks for accepting my apology.


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## AllHeart (Nov 22, 2013)

Isn't it the same in Spain, that a six-month contract (short term) doesn't give the tenant as many legal rights, compared to a contract for over one year (long term)?


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

AllHeart said:


> Isn't it the same in Spain, that a six-month contract (short term) doesn't give the tenant as many legal rights, compared to a contract for over one year (long term)?


A long-term contract is, by definition, 6 months or more.

There are _different_ rights depending which contract you have.


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## AllHeart (Nov 22, 2013)

snikpoh said:


> A long-term contract is, by definition, 6 months or more.
> 
> There are _different_ rights depending which contract you have.


OK. Thanks for explaining that.


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## svlinda (Aug 31, 2015)

Hi Tamarindo, probably it´s a good idea to rent a property for a year or two, to explore the city and to feel the vibe of it, chat with other expats and get to know their experience, meanwhile to monitor the market and to find the right property - either for a permanent rent or to purchase. The rental prices in Valencia are quite low comparing to other that size cities in Europe. 

I hope this helps!


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## Tamarindo (Feb 14, 2016)

svlinda said:


> Hi Tamarindo, probably it´s a good idea to rent a property for a year or two, to explore the city and to feel the vibe of it, chat with other expats and get to know their experience, meanwhile to monitor the market and to find the right property - either for a permanent rent or to purchase. The rental prices in Valencia are quite low comparing to other that size cities in Europe.
> 
> I hope this helps!


Yes thank you, I'm planning to do exactly that after considering many things and talking to my intercambio partners. I'd like to get started now but have to wait for EU ref results (obviously if they vote to leave, it could stop me in my tracks.) But that's a concern for most on this forum, I guess.


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