# Temporary vs Permanent Visa?



## suegarn

I am living in Canada at the moment, and wish to move to Mexico. I work online as a self-employed contractor for several different Canadian and US companies, so I can work from anywhere in the world, as long as I have a good internet connection. I have more than enough monthly income showing to satisfy the requirement for Permanent Visa status. But I'm confused at the wording for Permanent status. It appears that the income has to come from pension sources. Is this true? If I have to apply for Temporary Resident status, after the four year period, will I be able to become Permanent, even if I'm still working? I hope someone here can clarify all of this for me. I don't want to sell off everything here, move to Mexico, and then have to move back to Canada after four years. I want to make Mexico my permanent home!


----------



## CozumelComplete

No it does not have to be from pension income, it can be from other verifiable sources.


----------



## TundraGreen

suegarn said:


> I am living in Canada at the moment, and wish to move to Mexico. I work online as a self-employed contractor for several different Canadian and US companies, so I can work from anywhere in the world, as long as I have a good internet connection. I have more than enough monthly income showing to satisfy the requirement for Permanent Visa status. But I'm confused at the wording for Permanent status. It appears that the income has to come from pension sources. Is this true? If I have to apply for Temporary Resident status, after the four year period, will I be able to become Permanent, even if I'm still working? I hope someone here can clarify all of this for me. I don't want to sell off everything here, move to Mexico, and then have to move back to Canada after four years. I want to make Mexico my permanent home!


The source of income is irrelevant; it can be either pension, investment, or earned. However, they do want to look at six months. I am just speculating, but it might cause a problem if the amount of income was highly variable. One person that looked at my bank statements seemed only interested in the deposit that was the same every month and ignored some other more variable sources of income.


----------



## suegarn

*Thanks for the info, Tundra!*

This is a reply that I am sending to the Embassy in Montreal, Canada regarding their response to my question about wanting to apply for Permanent Resident status…..the first line in italics is their response to my initial inquiry…..the rest is the reply that I’m sending to them now. I’ve also copied and pasted the wording from the website for you to check out. Is there anyone on this forum who has been able to get Permanent Resident status while still getting income from employment, not just pension? 

" About the kind of visa we can only issue a Temporary Resident visa due to you are not a Retiree yet. And the low just apply for people who has pensions or are retirees.'

We are still working and have monthly income above the requirements for Temporary or Permanent Resident Visa status, so we would seem to qualify for Temporary Status at the moment. But in four or five years we will still have the same income level, since, like many Canadians these days, we plan on doing paid work well into our retirement years. That work income, plus our government Canada Pension/Old Age Pensions will be our income indefinitely, since out work, primarily in the US, can be done from anywhere with an internet connection.
We've seen in many sources that income for Permanent Status can be from any source, including both employment income and pension income. Is that not the case?
If we apply for Temporary Resident status now, after the four year-period will we be able to switch to Permanent Resident status, even if we're still working and our income to meet or exceed the requirement comes from a mix of employment income and pension income? We hope that you can clarify this for us. We don't want to sell off everything here, move to Mexico, and then have to move back to Canada after four years. We want to make Mexico our permanent home!
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
- This is the exact wording from the Mexican Embassy website for Canadians wanting to emigrate to Mexico:

Requirements for Temporary Resident visa

- Original and a photocopy of documents showing that the applicant has employment or a pension with a monthly tax-free income of over $1,995.00 Canadian dollars during the past six months.

Requirements for Permanent Resident visa

- Original and a photocopy of proof of monthly income from pensions in the amount of $2,493.00 Canadian dollars during the past six months.


----------



## TundraGreen

suegarn said:


> This is a reply that I am sending to the Embassy in Montreal, Canada regarding their response to my question about wanting to apply for Permanent Resident status…..the first line in italics is their response to my initial inquiry…..the rest is the reply that I’m sending to them now. I’ve also copied and pasted the wording from the website for you to check out. Is there anyone on this forum who has been able to get Permanent Resident status while still getting income from employment, not just pension?
> 
> " About the kind of visa we can only issue a Temporary Resident visa due to you are not a Retiree yet. And the low just apply for people who has pensions or are retirees.'
> 
> We are still working and have monthly income above the requirements for Temporary or Permanent Resident Visa status, so we would seem to qualify for Temporary Status at the moment. But in four or five years we will still have the same income level, since, like many Canadians these days, we plan on doing paid work well into our retirement years. That work income, plus our government Canada Pension/Old Age Pensions will be our income indefinitely, since out work, primarily in the US, can be done from anywhere with an internet connection.
> We've seen in many sources that income for Permanent Status can be from any source, including both employment income and pension income. Is that not the case?
> If we apply for Temporary Resident status now, after the four year-period will we be able to switch to Permanent Resident status, even if we're still working and our income to meet or exceed the requirement comes from a mix of employment income and pension income? We hope that you can clarify this for us. We don't want to sell off everything here, move to Mexico, and then have to move back to Canada after four years. We want to make Mexico our permanent home!
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> - This is the exact wording from the Mexican Embassy website for Canadians wanting to emigrate to Mexico:
> 
> Requirements for Temporary Resident visa
> 
> - Original and a photocopy of documents showing that the applicant has employment or a pension with a monthly tax-free income of over $1,995.00 Canadian dollars during the past six months.
> 
> Requirements for Permanent Resident visa
> 
> - Original and a photocopy of proof of monthly income from pensions in the amount of $2,493.00 Canadian dollars during the past six months.


You might try showing them the text of the law, in Spanish. Both types allow income from other sources than a pension.

For Residente Permanente (Art. 44):
Original y copia de los documentos que demuestren que cuenta con ingresos o pensión mensual libre de gravámenes equivalente a quinientos días de salario mínimo general vigente en el Distrito Federal, durante los últimos seis meses, y

For Residente Temporal (Art. 43):
Original y copia de los documentos que demuestren que cuenta con empleo o pensión con ingresos mensuales libres de gravámenes equivalentes a cuatrocientos días de salario mínimo general vigente en el Distrito Federal, durante los últimos seis meses.


----------



## suegarn

*Thanks again, Tundra....great info!*

Can you post the webpage link where you got that information from? I really appreciate all your help!


----------



## TundraGreen

suegarn said:


> Can you post the webpage link where you got that information from? I really appreciate all your help!


If you google "LINEAMIENTOS PARA TRAMITES Y PROCEDIMIENTOS MIGRATORIOS" you will get several links. Here are a couple.

http://www.dcubanos.com/archivospdf/INM/Lineamientos-para-tramites-procedimientos-migratorios.pdf

Documento sin título


----------



## suegarn

*Thank you so much, Tundra!*

I hope that my process goes smoothly, and that I'll be able to move down this summer.....can't wait! First step, Montreal office next week, then a trip to Guadalajara to hopefully finalize the paperwork!


----------



## circle110

You can't go directly to permanent resident status (regardless of income) without doing one of these three things:

1. Spending four years as a "residente temporal"
or
2. Being married to a Mexican citizen and spending two years as a "residente temporal"
or
3. Have a child that is a Mexican citizen


It's not like the old FM2 vs. FM3 where you can decide which you want. Permanent residency is the old "inmigrado" status and you have to fulfill one of the above prerequisites.


----------



## TundraGreen

circle110 said:


> You can't go directly to permanent resident status (regardless of income) without doing one of these three things:
> 
> 1. Spending four years as a "residente temporal"
> or
> 2. Being married to a Mexican citizen and spending two years as a "residente temporal"
> or
> 3. Have a child that is a Mexican citizen
> 
> 
> It's not like the old FM2 vs. FM3 where you can decide which you want. Permanent residency is the old "inmigrado" status and you have to fulfill one of the above prerequisites.


I think that is incorrect. With sufficient income you can apply for change of status to Residente Permanente directly now.

Residente Permanente is indeed the new version of inmigrado. And if you have inmigrado status now you are eligible for Residente Permanente with no proof of income required. 

However, one change from the old system is that now, with sufficient income, you can become Residente Permanente with no waiting 4 or 5 years as Temporal. Without sufficient income, you still have to wait a few years.


----------



## suegarn

*I hope you're right, Tundra!*

I hope that I can apply directly for Permanent Resident status....I've done so much research, and I know I want to live in Mexico! But, if I have to go through 4 years of Temporary Resident status, I hope that at the end of that time, I'll be able to apply for Permanent status down there. I really don't want to spend a fortune traveling back to Montreal ( flight, hotel, meals, etc ).


----------



## circle110

TundraGreen said:


> I think that is incorrect. With sufficient income you can apply for change of status to Residente Permanente directly now.


Dang, I wish they agreed with you at San Miguel INM... I'd be all set!
I tried to do just that very thing and was told that I cannot do so.



TundraGreen said:


> However, one change from the old system is that now, with sufficient income, you can become Residente Permanente with no waiting 4 or 5 years as Temporal. Without sufficient income, you still have to wait a few years.


I have sufficient income/investments but they said that doesn't matter. They told me the only ways to get permanent residency are the ones I listed in that previous post.


----------



## TundraGreen

circle110 said:


> Dang, I wish they agreed with you at San Miguel INM... I'd be all set!
> I tried to do just that very thing and was told that I cannot do so.
> 
> 
> 
> I have sufficient income/investments but they said that doesn't matter. They told me the only ways to get permanent residency are the ones I listed in that previous post.


Just goes to confirm the old axiom that the only interpretation of the rules that matters, is the interpretation of the person behind the desk accepting your paperwork. 

I have requested change of status to permanent based on income. They are working on it. They accepted payment for the change so it looks like it is going through. But it ain't over till its over.


----------



## Hound Dog

_


TundraGreen said:



I think that is incorrect. With sufficient income you can apply for change of status to Residente Permanente directly now.

Residente Permanente is indeed the new version of inmigrado. And if you have inmigrado status now you are eligible for Residente Permanente with no proof of income required. 

However, one change from the old system is that now, with sufficient income, you can become Residente Permanente with no waiting 4 or 5 years as Temporal. Without sufficient income, you still have to wait a few years.

Click to expand...

_An interesting point about eligibility for "Residente Permanente" status from "Inmigrado" status. We achieved "Inmigrado" status in November, 2010 after five years under the old FM-3 status and five years as FM-2. We have been informed indirectly that we can get a new "Residente Permanente" card by simply going into our local INM office and exchanging the "Inmigrado" card for the new card but, since the "Inmigrado" Card has no expiration date and states on its face that the holder of the card is a "permanent resident" of Mexico and,since the INM offices appear to be in such turmoil simply handling those applying for new residency status whether temporary or permanent under the new rules, why would we, as permanent residents be welcome at an INM office to go through this simple formality? Not only that - why would we want to even go near an INM office anywhere in Mexico while the agency is undergoing the new rule "shakedown" period and so many rules remain up in the air?

Our personal solution is to just remain under "Inmigrado" status unless and until INM writes us and directs that we exchange cards to comply with the new rules. By inference, that means that, barring a directive from INM to the contrary, we´ll just stay "Inmigrado" indefinitely. The thought of going into an INM office at this time for what seems a frivolous task, is unappealing to say the least. 

Are there other forum participants out there with the old "Inmigrado" status who have attempted to exchange cards? If so, we would appreciate your recounting the experience for our benefit and the benefits of others holding the old cards. 

One of us just returned from Guatemala with the old "Inmigrado" card and no one at immigartion at the border even blinked which is a good sign. 

By the way; for those of you thinking of immigrating to Mexico, let the current events taking place at INM be a lesson to you as you begin this process. Go for the most secure residency status achievable under the new rules and attempt to achieve permanent residency as quickly as possible. Hindsight is 20/20 but in this case important. Many among our acquaintances stayed on the old FM-3 status indefinitely and continued to own and drive foreign plated vehicles for many years because they didin´t want to pay the increased fees of going to FM-2 and they didn´t want to give up their foreign plated vehicles once they graduated to "Inmigrado" status. Under the old rules thay could do this forever but no more. They are now experiencing many problems under the new rules and may lose their foreign plated vehicles anyway. 

My advice if you are serious about becoming a resident of this country is that you go for permanent residency as soon as this can be achieved and then, when eligible, citizenship to protect your residency status and and property rights you may have here. You can hold dual citizenship with your home country and in Mexico so what´s the risk? You never know when the rules may change again so protect yourself.


----------



## maesonna

Hound Dog said:


> An interesting point about eligibility for "Residente Permanente" status from "Inmigrado" status. We achieved "Inmigrado" status in November, 2010 after five years under the old FM-3 status and five years as FM-2. We have been informed indirectly that we can get a new "Residente Permanente" card by simply going into our local INM office and exchanging the "Inmigrado" card for the new card but, since the "Inmigrado" Card has no expiration date and states on its face that the holder of the card is a "permanent resident" of Mexico and,since the INM offices appear to be in such turmoil simply handling those applying for new residency status whether temporary or permanent under the new rules, why would we, as permanent residents be welcome at an INM office to go through this simple formality? Not only that - why would we want to even go near an INM office anywhere in Mexico while the agency is undergoing the new rule "shakedown" period and so many rules remain up in the air?
> […]
> Are there other forum participants out there with the old "Inmigrado" status who have attempted to exchange cards? If so, we would appreciate your recounting the experience for our benefit and the benefits of others holding the old cards.


In answer to your question, here’s my experience (in DF). I had been an _inmigrado_ for about 7 years (documented with visa booklet; I had never gotten the card). When the changes started happening I resented having to go back to the IMN offices, and I resisted because I was comfortably clinging to the concept that I would never have to go back.

But when I made a brief trip out of the country in 2011 the officer in the airport said, “You can go this time on your old booklet, but you had better get your card if you want to leave the country again.” So I bit the bullet and when I returned from my trip, went to get my card, and it only took one trip for the application and one trip to pick it up. Moreover, the officials in the office were helpful in aiding me to fill out the application and correcting my mistakes and _dudas_.

But the most important thing is that the process of getting the card did not seem to involve a review of my status or a reapplication, simply a change of the physical document.


----------



## Joycee

TundaGreen
The immigration office I go to would also let someone with sufficient income become residente permanente. When I turned in my paperwork from an immigrado (which I held for 2 years) to a resudente temporal, the agent told me I had enough income to qualify for a residente permanente, but since it was 1:00 on the very day my immigrado expired, I figured I didn't have time to change my paperwork. I went ahead and got a 2 year residente temporal, which I believe I can change to residente permanente any time in the next 2 years.


----------



## Hound Dog

Thank you for your comments Maesonna and Joycee but your situations do no reflect ours in my judgment. You both write of having obtained "Inmigrado" ststus but I think there must be some understandable confusion of terms here. The old FM-2 status was also known as "Inmigrante" which, in the terminology then used by INM, meant that you were in the process of obtaining status as "Inmigrado". The old FM-2 required the holder to possess a visa booklet that required annual renewals for four years before the owner could apply for "Inmigrado" status. Once "Inmigrado" status was achieved, INM issued an "Inmigrado" card that was permanent [with no expiration date for the life of the recipient . The "Inmigrado" card states on its face the following:
"El extranjero Inmigrado tiene derechos de residencia definitiva en Mexico" and beneath that, in English, " The owner of this document is a permanent resident in Mexico."

The words imnmigrante and inmigrado can both be translated as "immigrant" so the INM terminology is confusing but the difference between "inmiogrante" (FM-2) and "Inmigrado" under the old INM system was significant.

Thanks to both of you for your responses. If you disagree with me let me know but rest assured, Joycee, that "Inmigrado" status under the old system did not expire until you expired as long as you remained resident in Mexico.


----------



## maesonna

Dog, a clarification about my case. I did use the term _inmigrado_ deliberately in reference to my status. I had spent the requisite 5 years as an FM2 _inmigrante_, (first as a dependent family member via my Mexican spouse, then converted to _lucrativo_ as an employee, and subsequently i_ndependiente_). At the end of the 5 years, I had to change to _inmigrado_, which was documented in my FM2 booklet; I never did get one of the old-style cards. It was after I had been an _inmigrado_ for 7 years already that the reforms came and I had to change my document from booklet to the new card.


----------



## TundraGreen

Joycee said:


> TundaGreen
> The immigration office I go to would also let someone with sufficient income become residente permanente. When I turned in my paperwork from an immigrado (which I held for 2 years) to a resudente temporal, the agent told me I had enough income to qualify for a residente permanente, but since it was 1:00 on the very day my immigrado expired, I figured I didn't have time to change my paperwork. I went ahead and got a 2 year residente temporal, which I believe I can change to residente permanente any time in the next 2 years.


Was your status "imigrado" or "inmigrante"? If you had been "imigrado", you would have been eligible for Residente Permanente with no income test.


----------



## gudgrief

*Income Subject to Tax in Mexico*

All my income is from the US.

As I understand it as long as I'm not a permanent resident, none of my income is taxed Impuesto Sobre la Renta.)

If I could convert to the new equivalent of [email protected], my US income would be subject to ISR.

Is that correct?

Thanks


----------



## EagleRay

suegarn said:


> I hope that I can apply directly for Permanent Resident status....I've done so much research, and I know I want to live in Mexico! But, if I have to go through 4 years of Temporary Resident status, I hope that at the end of that time, I'll be able to apply for Permanent status down there. I really don't want to spend a fortune traveling back to Montreal ( flight, hotel, meals, etc ).


My wife and I still live in the U.S. but plan to move to Mexico in June. We went to the local Mexican Consulate and applied for the visa de residente permanente and both were approved. We showed them 12 months of bank statements from our joint checking account. My wife also showed them a letter from her employer acknowledging her retirement and it also spelled out her monthly pension. In my case, I'm self employed and told the official that I was retiring in May. She asked for proof that I owned the company which I provided in the form of state records showing the business organization and ownership. We each paid our $36 fee and were both approved.

As usual with all things Mexico, you will get different answers depending on where you go and who you talk to. Also, there seems to be quite a bit of difference in how these matters are handled for those expats living in Mexico vs those of us about to become expats.


----------



## TundraGreen

gudgrief said:


> All my income is from the US.
> 
> As I understand it as long as I'm not a permanent resident, none of my income is taxed Impuesto Sobre la Renta.)
> 
> If I could convert to the new equivalent of [email protected], my US income would be subject to ISR.
> 
> Is that correct?
> 
> Thanks


I don't think that is correct, but I am not an accountant and have previously been burned speculating on things I know little about. So I won't try to advise you beyond saying that I don't think you have it right.


----------



## BobAtk

TundraGreen said:


> You might try showing them the text of the law, in Spanish. Both types allow income from other sources than a pension.
> 
> For Residente Permanente (Art. 44):
> Original y copia de los documentos que demuestren que cuenta con ingresos o pensión mensual libre de gravámenes equivalente a quinientos días de salario mínimo general vigente en el Distrito Federal, durante los últimos seis meses, y


That is from item 5b of Section 44 of the act (p.37-38 in the file Lineamientos-para-tramites-procedimientos-migratorios.pdf). 

However, item 5 opens with this sentence:

5. En el caso de pensionados o jubilados deberán presentar:

Translation:

5. For pensioners and retirees must submit:

I think it depends on how the INM people interpret that particular phrase -- if you have to be a 'pensioner' you, presumably must have a pension, rather than just employment income. That is how it is stated, but how are INM people actually interpreting it?


----------



## TundraGreen

BobAtk said:


> That is from item 5b of Section 44 of the act (p.37-38 in the file Lineamientos-para-tramites-procedimientos-migratorios.pdf).
> 
> However, item 5 opens with this sentence:
> 
> 5. En el caso de pensionados o jubilados deberán presentar:
> 
> Translation:
> 
> 5. For pensioners and retirees must submit:
> 
> I think it depends on how the INM people interpret that particular phrase -- if you have to be a 'pensioner' you, presumably must have a pension, rather than just employment income. That is how it is stated, but how are INM people actually interpreting it?


Good point.


----------



## Joycee

Hound Dog said:


> Thank you for your comments Maesonna and Joycee but your situations do no reflect ours in my judgment. You both write of having obtained "Inmigrado" ststus but I think there must be some understandable confusion of terms here. The old FM-2 status was also known as "Inmigrante" which, in the terminology then used by INM, meant that you were in the process of obtaining status as "Inmigrado". The old FM-2 required the holder to possess a visa booklet that required annual renewals for four years before the owner could apply for "Inmigrado" status. Once "Inmigrado" status was achieved, INM issued an "Inmigrado" card that was permanent [with no expiration date for the life of the recipient . The "Inmigrado" card states on its face the following:
> "El extranjero Inmigrado tiene derechos de residencia definitiva en Mexico" and beneath that, in English, " The owner of this document is a permanent resident in Mexico."
> 
> The words imnmigrante and inmigrado can both be translated as "immigrant" so the INM terminology is confusing but the difference between "inmiogrante" (FM-2) and "Inmigrado" under the old INM system was significant.
> 
> Thanks to both of you for your responses. If you disagree with me let me know but rest assured, Joycee, that "Inmigrado" status under the old system did not expire until you expired as long as you remained resident in Mexico.




Sorry Hound Dog. My error. My status was actually "no immigrante," a status I held for 2 years when I sought my new residente temporal. I hope this clarifies my prior post.


----------



## EagleRay

gudgrief said:


> All my income is from the US.
> 
> As I understand it as long as I'm not a permanent resident, none of my income is taxed Impuesto Sobre la Renta.)
> 
> If I could convert to the new equivalent of [email protected], my US income would be subject to ISR.
> 
> Is that correct?
> 
> Thanks


I also believe that to be incorrect. My income while living in Mexico will be derived from sales made in the U.S. with my pay going into U.S. bank accounts. My Mexican attorney says I will not be liable for Mexican income taxes and the same is true for investment income while retired.


----------



## AlanMexicali

I had some news at the INM today. It appears when I did a tramite from my last FMM inside Mexico to Residente Temporal using "Vinculo Familiar" last Nov. when they "told" me this visa card would come with the "permiso" to work in Mexico. Wrong!

I had to fill out another on line form callled "OBTENER PERMISO PARA TRABAJAR" in their "Formato para solicitar trámite de estancia" webpage. I needed to go to a bank with the payment form and pay $2350.00 pesos for it. 3 photos, Forma Basico and a letter from the employer offering a job. It took all day but just another bit of misinformation I got back in Nov. and Dec. They will issue a new card all identical except on the front it will state "Permiso para Trabajo" they said. Takes 1 month they said. Alan


----------



## gudgrief

EagleRay said:


> I also believe that to be incorrect. My income while living in Mexico will be derived from sales made in the U.S. with my pay going into U.S. bank accounts. My Mexican attorney says I will not be liable for Mexican income taxes and the same is true for investment income while retired.


Are you applying/have applied for visitante/no inmigrante or residente permanente?

I got the impression that makes a difference how the Mexican government treats foreign income.

Thanks


----------



## cuylers5746

*Migrating from Visa Termporal to Perminente*

Based upon my own personal experience, I don't think you have anything to worry about migrating after 4 years from Visa Temporal to Visa Residente Perminente. That is as long as you keep renewing or pay up front for all those years and keep them informed of an Martital Status or Residence in Mexico change.

I was flatly told, I can't keep my FM-3 or Visa Temporal after having 4 revisions. It was mandatory for me to migrate to Visa Residente Perminente. And, as others have said, you don't have to prove any Financial Requirements again once you've done it for Visa Temporal.

I just obtained my Visa Residente Perminente, or as I like to say my "Green Card", last month.

That's how they're treating it now days.


----------



## gudgrief

cuylers5746 said:


> Based upon my own personal experience, I don't think you have anything to worry about migrating after 4 years from Visa Temporal to Visa Residente Perminente. That is as long as you keep renewing or pay up front for all those years and keep them informed of an Martital Status or Residence in Mexico change.
> 
> I was flatly told, I can't keep my FM-3 or Visa Temporal after having 4 revisions. It was mandatory for me to migrate to Visa Residente Perminente. And, as others have said, you don't have to prove any Financial Requirements again once you've done it for Visa Temporal.
> 
> I just obtained my Visa Residente Perminente, or as I like to say my "Green Card", last month.
> 
> That's how they're treating it now days.


I have a problem with terminology understanding a lot of the posts here.
I do like "Green Card" as analogy.

I entered Mexico in Sept. 2008 For an FM-3. A prerequisite was a Visa sticker in my passport issued by the Mexican Consulate in Las Vegas, and was only good for year nominally. The FM-3 wasn't issued until I completed more paperwork, provided photos and paid additional fees. The FM-3 was not a visa nor was it a "Green Card." When I renewed my US passport in 2010, Mexico did not require a new sticker in the new passport.

The card I'm carrying now is a permit to stay in the country for a year allowing multiple entries and exits. When it expires, I will have been a visitor/non immigrant for 5 years. Under the old system, I could start the whole 5 year cycle over again and continue as a visitor/non immigrant fro another 5 years. You are saying that's not possible anymore.

As far as proof of income is concerned, I read on the INM website that the requirement for the residente permanente it several times what it is for visitante/no imigrante. You seem to be saying that if you have already been in Mexico for 5 years as a visitante/no imigrante, you don't have to provide proof of income when you apply for residente permanente.

Is my understanding correct? How much was the fee you paid as pago de derechos? And, if it's not too personal, how much US income did you show the last time you had to do so?

Has anyone else had a similar experience? 

Thank you all very much.


----------



## BryansRose

I just changed from temporary to permanent after 4 years, and they told me at the office in SLP that I still had to show all the financial documentation for the income, or in my case, the "money in the bank" requirement. The financial requirement is still there, even after being here 4 years. Maybe that's because the amounts of income have changed, or maybe because each office seems to make their own rules.  There was nothing in the govt. info online, though, that said you could do without the financial requirement. 

I got my signed notice that I am permanent after about 10 days, but I have to go back in 3 weeks to get the tarjeta. Private messages welcome if you have questions.


----------



## Isla Verde

BryansRose said:


> I just changed from temporary to permanent after 4 years, and they told me at the office in SLP that I still had to show all the financial documentation for the income, or in my case, the "money in the bank" requirement. The financial requirement is still there, even after being here 4 years. Maybe that's because the amounts of income have changed, or maybe because each office seems to make their own rules.  There was nothing in the govt. info online, though, that said you could do without the financial requirement.


A couple of questions, BR: One, are you on a _rentista_ or a _lucrativa visa_? Two, was the financial requirement you had to fulfill the old one or the new one?


----------



## AlanMexicali

Isla Verde said:


> A couple of questions, BR: One, are you on a _rentista_ or a _lucrativa visa_? Two, was the financial requirement you had to fulfill the old one or the new one?


I found this PDF on the INM website and it has all the charateristics of of the visas and their have and have not tied to them luctativas. 

Equiparación de calidades y características (Ley General de Población) en condiciones de estancia (Ley de Migración)

http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...ey+de+Migración)&cd=2&hl=es-419&ct=clnk&gl=mx

It appears a Residente Permanente does not have Renista catagory at all, only Residente Temporal has if you apply for retired pensioner. Alan

Here is their PDF not in HTML, tha same as above:

http://www.inm.gob.mx/static/Tramites_LM/Estancia_LM/Matriz_de_Equiparacion_V2.xlsx


----------



## AlanMexicali

Isla Verde said:


> A couple of questions, BR: One, are you on a _rentista_ or a _lucrativa visa_? Two, was the financial requirement you had to fulfill the old one or the new one?


The category for a Residente Temporal card for a person that has worked in Mexico and is in "tramite" from a no inmigrado to Residente Temporal with a "lucrativa" might be the category "Asimilado". I suspect. 

A new applicant from outside Mexico would have to be one of the other categories such as a Professional, Technico, Position of Trust etc. and would be given a "Permiso para Trabajo"[Lucrativa] by having a job with those qualifications and most likely have to have a Mexican company needing them here rather than a Mexican and prove it was necessary. 

In other words it will be hard to get a job in Mexico if you do not have a good reason to work here now. Given that, those wanting to get a job in Mexico that do not already have one will be in a fight for a job a Mexican can do. No more bar tenders in Cancun from other countries who do not already live and work here with a no inmigrado lucritiva, it appears. Alan


----------



## AlanMexicali

Given my 2 post above it appears people who have asked about coming to Mexico to look for a job and the advise given with the new immigation law was to come in on a tourist FMM card, find a job, then get a letter from that employer, go back to your home country your passport is on and apply for Residente Temoral with a premission to work will most likely be denied at the Mexican Consul in that country IF a Mexican can do that job.

It appears the new immigration law is protecting Mexicans who can do that job now.

No more people from other countries working at jobs just because they found one on a visit here. They would have to prove that company could not solicate a Mexican to do it first or that the company needs, for example, a executive from a foreign company here or a Dr, who is a specialist etc. before a Residente Temporal with permission to work is given.

That leaves only one option: People who want to live in Mexico, who do not already live here legally can apply under for a Residente Temporal "rentista" .. a retired pensioner with financial solvency meeting the higher monthly deposits or investment assets of around $100,000 US in an account out of the country.

This new law has closed jobs for people who do not meet these requirements, I feel. The new immigration law was well thought out. 

You have to be married to a Mexican National or have Mexican National children/child or parents to get an ordinary job here now. [Residente Temporal and a "Permiso para Trabajo" using the Vinculo Familiar route. Alan


----------



## EagleRay

gudgrief said:


> Are you applying/have applied for visitante/no inmigrante or residente permanente?
> 
> I got the impression that makes a difference how the Mexican government treats foreign income.
> 
> Thanks


We applied for and were granted a visa de residente permanente.


----------



## gudgrief

*After 5 Years as Noinmigrante - Visitante - Rentista*

My Mexican friends complain I get too antsy over following rules. They are usually correct.

I get some of my income deposited to a relative's account. I was concerned that I might have to make arrangements to report some of it to meet Residente Permanente requirements.

It turns out that if you have met the requirements for 5 years as a No Inmigrante - Visitante - Rentista, there's no specific income minimum if you want to change to Residente Permanente. The young lady at Migracion told me today that 3 months of bank statements would be fine just to prove I can continue to support myself.

If you are a first time applicant or have less than 5 years in Mexico then you do have to meet the minimum income requirements.

You MAY continue as a Temporal BUT after 5 years, you'd have to leave Mexico, get a visa at a Mexican consulate and proceed as if it were your very first time.

The costs, I think, make it a no brainer. Go for permanent as soon as you can. The fee for receiving and reviewing of your application and the fee for issuing the Residente Permanente document total 4,815 USD is less than a 4 year Resident Temporal. Even though the instructions make it look like you make those deposits a different, it really is only one trip to the bank.


----------



## circle110

It is 4 years, not 5.


----------



## gudgrief

circle110 said:


> It is 4 years, not 5.


I guess that's correct under the new rules. If you've had a temporary for 4 years already, you can go permanent the next time you have to renew.

It's too late for me to do it after four.


----------



## circle110

I'm a little envious of your being able to get your permanent now and not having to visit INM any more. Felicidades!


----------



## gudgrief

circle110 said:


> I'm a little envious of your being able to get your permanent now and not having to visit INM any more. Felicidades!


Thanks. :clap2:

Actually, the 5 times I went to INM here in Zacatecas '08, '09, '10, '11, '12 were not onerous at all. The people here, 3 different crews, have always been patient, courteous and helpful. The real breakthrough will be if and when I don't have to check out with Migracion when leaving the country.


----------



## BryansRose

Isla Verde said:


> A couple of questions, BR: One, are you on a _rentista_ or a _lucrativa visa_? Two, was the financial requirement you had to fulfill the old one or the new one?


I'm a rentista, and the financial requirement was the new one, 25,000 times the daily minimum wage in bank accounts or investments, or 500 times the min. wage per month. With the peso worth more now, the dollar amount is a bit higher than a few months ago.


----------



## Anonimo

gudgrief said:


> Thanks. :clap2:
> 
> Actually, the 5 times I went to INM here in Zacatecas '08, '09, '10, '11, '12 were not onerous at all. The people here, 3 different crews, have always been patient, courteous and helpful. The real breakthrough will be if and when I don't have to check out with Migracion when leaving the country.


Not having to check out when leaving Mexico, for real? I was unaware of that privilege of Permanentes.


----------



## circle110

Anonimo said:


> Not having to check out when leaving Mexico, for real? I was unaware of that privilege of Permanentes.


I wasn't aware of that privilege either.

I suppose that happens with naturalization, though. Maybe that is what they were referring to?


----------



## Isla Verde

Anonimo said:


> Not having to check out when leaving Mexico, for real? I was unaware of that privilege of Permanentes.


Neither was I. I thought that all expats living in Mexico had to go through Immigration (at the airport or at the border) when leaving the country.


----------



## TundraGreen

Isla Verde said:


> Neither was I. I thought that all expats living in Mexico had to go through Immigration (at the airport or at the border) when leaving the country.


The only exceptions I have found is crossing the border on foot. I have tried several times to talk to immigration both leaving Mexico and returning, and they really have no interest in seeing anything or having me fill out any documents.


----------



## AlanMexicali

Isla Verde said:


> Neither was I. I thought that all expats living in Mexico had to go through Immigration (at the airport or at the border) when leaving the country.


All crossing by land did not have to show anything when leaving Mexico or entering back into Mexico. I personally went to the INM building in Mexicali in Jan. with my Residente Temporal card and they told me to leave and enter Mexico when I want and they have no form for me to fill out now or form to fill out when I return later.

The ones that flew out of Mexico, they filled out the regular FMM part and the INM officer at the Mexican airports keeps the other half and when the Expats returned they handed it back.

The rules state that for whatever reason or for "statistical purposes" everyone, including Mexican nationals have to fill out a FMM when returning, the part where you declare how long you were out of the country, and some speculated this also was for customs to review. So in conclusion it is not against the rules to cross in and out by land without doing anything but on international flights, back then at least, they required Expats do it. Still a bit of confusion.


----------



## circle110

I have most frequently left by land (in car, never on foot) and I always "check out" and then back in.

These days the INM officers at the border always know what to do right away when I come in to check out; it appears that they go through the steps all the time so it must be standard procedure.

One time, previous to having my no-inmigrante, I didn't check out and upon our return my wife unknowingly handed the immigration clerk my uncancelled FMM and I had to pay a fine. Oops. 

On foot it appears to be different since several friends who take the bus to the border at Nuevo Laredo say they get the same response as TundraGreen. No one cares or wants to know.

There really isn't any foot traffic at Colombia Bridge where we cross so they seem to be more "official" about things.


----------



## gudgrief

Sorry if I caused any confusion, folks.
It was just wishful thinking.

From 2008 until now, the INM in Zacatecas has been crystal clear that I had to check out with Migracion, fill out an FMM and turn it back in when I returned to Mexico.

In fact, one time when I hadn't checked out, a Migracion official got on the bus checking ID and forced me to get off the bus in Reynosa and I pretended to go into Migracion to turn in the non-existent FMM. Luckily part of the route is hidden from the Aduana inspection point. It happened once also in Nuevo Laredo.

I go from Zacatecas to Reynosa by bus. There's no through service to McAllen. Local service from Reynosa to McAllen is spotty and there's usually a long wait and the drivers don't like to stop and wait for 1 passenger to go through Migracion. I take a cab to the bridge, stop in at Migracion and walk across. A jitney runs every 15 min or so from the US side to McAllen.

BTW, by land I have never seen Mexican nationals stop at Migracion on the way out.


----------



## AlanMexicali

I was at the SEGOB INM today to get fingerprinted and signed in the box for the new Residente Temporal card with a 1 year Permiso de Trabajo. They said it should arrive in about 2 weeks. 

They had taken my 2 year Residente Temporal card away from me to do this tramite. Does that mean in 1 year I have to go back in and pay another $2,350.00 pesos for another 1 year tramited[Permiso de Trabajo] Residente Temporal plus about $3500.00 for the Residente Temporal that I had paid extra for a 2 year Residente Temporal in Nov. that I got on the Vinculo Familiar law? 

The immigration laws implemented in November, 2012 stated that a first-time applicant for a Residente Temporal visa had a choice of getting a 1-year, 2-year, 3-year, or 4-year visa (paperwork to be started at the home country’s Mexican consulate). That rule has changed this last month it appears: only a 1-year Residente Temporal visa is now possible when first applying for it. When renewing after the first year, however, visa holders then have a choice of a 1-year, 2-year, or 3-year renewal for a total of 4 years possible (and without having to return to the home country’s Mexican consulate). 

For current holders of the old FM2 and FM3 visas who are ready to renew, the time accrued on those visas does count toward the 4 year total for the Residente Temporal visa. For example, if someone already has had an FM3 visa for 1 year, and the visa is up for renewal, a Residente Temporal visa can be issued for either 1 year, 2 years, or 3 years. No financial reporting is needed for these renewals. Alan


----------



## gudgrief

Just curious. With a _Vinculo Familiar_ aren't you eligible for a _Residente Permanente_ immediately? Wouldn't it come out cheaper that way. You might still have to renew the permission to work every year but that's something that doesn't affect me so I wouldn't know.


----------



## gudgrief

TundraGreen said:


> The only exceptions I have found is crossing the border on foot. I have tried several times to talk to immigration both leaving Mexico and returning, and they really have no interest in seeing anything or having me fill out any documents.


Where are you crossing on foot?


----------



## TundraGreen

gudgrief said:


> Where are you crossing on foot?


I have made round trip border crossings (Mexico->US->Mexico) on foot numerous times in Tijuana, once in Mexicali, and twice in Ciudad Juarez.


----------



## Isla Verde

TundraGreen said:


> The only exceptions I have found is crossing the border on foot. I have tried several times to talk to immigration both leaving Mexico and returning, and they really have no interest in seeing anything or having me fill out any documents.


Why do you suppose they are so lax with people crossing on foot?


----------



## TundraGreen

Isla Verde said:


> Why do you suppose they are so lax with people crossing on foot?


I have no idea really. But in all three places, Tijuana, Mexicali, and Ciudad Juarez, INM pays little or no attention to foot traffic coming into Mexico. In Tijuana, there is a desk with a red/green light button and an immigration officer sometimes standing next to it. But in six or seven trips, I have never seen them using the button. The immigration officer just watches the people passing by and stops no one.


----------



## RVGRINGO

Many crossing points have a lot of back and forth day traffic, which never leaves the zona frontera. As such, the situation is as described above. However, those planning to go into the interior of Mexico are obligated to go through the appropriate entry/exit procedures, including FMMs and stampings. Otherwise, you may be turned back at an interior checkpoint or even end up in Mexico illegally. This is particularly important for those with travel restrictions on older visas, and/or vehicle permits. Sometimes, it is necessary to insist, as many border guards could care less. Often, you may have to go into an INM booth or office and wait for someone to show up. Traveling by bus is another problem, as the driver may not want to wait for you to go to INM. Do not assume that a walk-through the bus by an INM agent will suffice; it will not.


----------



## HarryM10

TundraGreen said:


> I think that is incorrect. With sufficient income you can apply for change of status to Residente Permanente directly now.
> 
> Residente Permanente is indeed the new version of inmigrado. And if you have inmigrado status now you are eligible for Residente Permanente with no proof of income required.
> 
> However, one change from the old system is that now, with sufficient income, you can become Residente Permanente with no waiting 4 or 5 years as Temporal. Without sufficient income, you still have to wait a few years.


What about the situation my wife and I will have: as soon as we retire we plan to move to Mexico and buy a house. Our qualifying pensions will kick in then, but we won't have proof of six months' worth, i.e., bank statements showing the deposits.


----------



## TundraGreen

HarryM10 said:


> What about the situation my wife and I will have: as soon as we retire we plan to move to Mexico and buy a house. Our qualifying pensions will kick in then, but we won't have proof of six months' worth, i.e., bank statements showing the deposits.


Without knowing more about your situation, I would suggest you have two options.

You could come to Mexico on a tourist permit for 180 days, then return to the US and apply for Residente Temporal through the nearest Mexican consulate.

Or, you might qualify to apply for Residente Temporal or Permanente now based on your income for the last six months. I believe Mexico is only interested in your income level, not the source.


----------



## Isla Verde

TundraGreen said:


> Or, you might qualify to apply for Residente Temporal or Permanente now based on your income for the last six months. I believe Mexico is only interested in your income level, not the source.


But what if the income source will not continue into the future, like into next month?


----------



## RVGRINGO

Once you have Residente Permanente, they do not care any more.


----------



## AlanMexicali

gudgrief said:


> Just curious. With a _Vinculo Familiar_ aren't you eligible for a _Residente Permanente_ immediately? Wouldn't it come out cheaper that way. You might still have to renew the permission to work every year but that's something that doesn't affect me so I wouldn't know.


When reading the new law it states a spouse can tramite to Residente Permanente for the first time visa applicant but in practise they put me on a 2 year Residente Temporal visa instead and said come back in after the first year to talk to us. I have been married almost 3 years. Alan


----------



## Isla Verde

RVGRINGO said:


> Once you have Residente Permanente, they do not care any more.


That makes no sense to me. If you are granted RP status on the basis of a supposed source of income and that income no longer exists, then what? Isn't proof of income required to show that you have the resources to support yourself financially in Mexico and not be a burden on society?


----------



## gudgrief

TundraGreen said:


> I have made round trip border crossings (Mexico->US->Mexico) on foot numerous times in Tijuana, once in Mexicali, and twice in Ciudad Juarez.


Thanks, one thing seems to be consistent and that there doesn't seem to be anything consistent from one INM office to another nor from one border crossing to another.


----------



## Isla Verde

gudgrief said:


> Thanks, one thing seems to be consistent and that there doesn't seem to be anything consistent from one INM office to another nor from one border crossing to another.


You can say that again - the only consistency is the lack thereof!


----------



## TundraGreen

Isla Verde said:


> That makes no sense to me. If you are granted RP status on the basis of a supposed source of income and that income no longer exists, then what? Isn't proof of income required to show that you have the resources to support yourself financially in Mexico and not be a burden on society?


It wouldn't be permanent if you had to continually prove that you qualified.


----------



## Isla Verde

TundraGreen said:


> It wouldn't be permanent if you had to continually prove that you qualified.


True, but if they don't ask the source of your income, then how do they know it will continue? Kind of the opposite of a Catch-22, isn't it?


----------



## TundraGreen

Isla Verde said:


> True, but if they don't ask the source of your income, then how do they know it will continue? Kind of the opposite of a Catch-22, isn't it?


Ah ha. Now I see the point of your comment. I think it is difficult for INM to detect from a bank statement whether the income is from a job that will end, or from a pension that will last until you die, or from an investment account that will last until it runs out. But maybe they try.


----------



## Isla Verde

TundraGreen said:


> Ah ha. Now I see the point of your comment. I think it is difficult for INM to detect from a bank statement whether the income is from a job that will end, or from a pension that will last until you die, or from an investment account that will last until it runs out. But maybe they try.


How hard would it be just to ask?


----------



## RVGRINGO

There are questions that should never be asked.
Actually, once one becomes Residente Permanente, working is permitted and no further visits to INM are required, unless you move, change marital status or die.


----------



## TundraGreen

Isla Verde said:


> How hard would it be just to ask?


That might work. Although, I have never had INM ask me any questions. They always seem to go by what they see on paper. When they have asked something it has always been for more paperwork.


----------



## Isla Verde

TundraGreen said:


> That might work. Although, I have never had INM ask me any questions. They always seem to go by what they see on paper. When they have asked something it has always been for more paperwork.


 Asking pertinent questions isn't part of their job description. After all, it might make more work for them !


----------



## gudgrief

Isla Verde said:


> Asking pertinent questions isn't part of their job description. After all, it might make more work for them !


As to verification of income, they only go by deposits. It doesn't matter if you make an electronic payment the same day for an amount that would put your balance below the minimum.

If you were to become a burden on society, the government would find out about it soon enough, wouldn't it? Maybe?


----------



## BryansRose

RVGRINGO said:


> There are questions that should never be asked.
> Actually, once one becomes Residente Permanente, working is permitted and no further visits to INM are required, unless you move, change marital status or die.


And how exactly do I return to the INM office when I die??


----------



## RVGRINGO

That requires making advance arrangements with the crematorium to light you up when the wind is in just the right direction.


----------



## gmelchor01

*today in Texas- RP*

Today I applied for Residente Permanente. I meet the financial income requirements (deposits). I own a business. However, I'm not retirement age. Nor do I meet the annual income amount requirement. The Consulate in Dallas told me I could not apply for Permanente because I was not retired and did not receive a pension. I could only apply for a Temporary, and could only request 1 year. I'm trying to find a way to change this. Any suggestions would be appreciated. I'm wondering if I should apply in a different city in Texas.


----------



## BryansRose

The best I can find for you is:
Estancia LM - Instituto Nacional de Migración

On that page, click on "Condición de estancia de extranjeros con una Calidad y Característica Migratoria » " It opens a file that lists the different types of immigration. It seems to support the information you've already gotten. But I'm not the expert here on immigration. I hope others will respond too.


----------



## RVGRINGO

If you get Residente Temporal and keep it current (renewed annually) you will be able to change to Residente Permanente after 4 years; no financial qualifications needed.


----------



## TundraGreen

RVGRINGO said:


> If you get Residente Temporal and keep it current (renewed annually) you will be able to change to Residente Permanente after 4 years; no financial qualifications needed.


Unless, of course, the rules change again sometime in the next four years.

I converted from No-inmigrante to Inmigrante a couple of years ago, thinking that after 4 years it would allow me to convert to Imigrado. Then the rules change and it turns out that if I had stayed No-inmigrante two years ago, I would have been eligible for Residente Permanente with no proof of income. But as an Inmigrante with only two years history, I was only eligible for Residente Temporal. Fortunately, I have sufficient income to qualify for Residente Permanente with proof of income under the current rules.

Nevertheless, the best we can do is act on the basis of current rules and deal with changes when they occur.


----------



## RVGRINGO

We are in the very same boat and will have to revert to Residente Temporal, then wait it out.


----------



## BryansRose

RVGRINGO said:


> If you get Residente Temporal and keep it current (renewed annually) you will be able to change to Residente Permanente after 4 years; no financial qualifications needed.


As usual, the INM offices don't always follow the same rules. I asked at the office in SLP if, with 4 years temporary, I still needed to provide the financial documentation, and I was told that yes, I did. *sigh*


----------



## AlanMexicali

*Update: Correcting info!*



AlanMexicali said:


> I was at the SEGOB INM today to get fingerprinted and signed in the box for the new Residente Temporal card with a 1 year Permiso de Trabajo. They said it should arrive in about 2 weeks.
> 
> They had taken my 2 year Residente Temporal card away from me to do this tramite. Does that mean in 1 year I have to go back in and pay another $2,350.00 pesos for another 1 year tramited[Permiso de Trabajo] Residente Temporal plus about $3500.00 for the Residente Temporal that I had paid extra for a 2 year Residente Temporal in Nov. that I got on the Vinculo Familiar law?
> 
> The immigration laws implemented in November, 2012 stated that a first-time applicant for a Residente Temporal visa had a choice of getting a 1-year, 2-year, 3-year, or 4-year visa (paperwork to be started at the home country’s Mexican consulate). That rule has changed this last month it appears: only a 1-year Residente Temporal visa is now possible when first applying for it. When renewing after the first year, however, visa holders then have a choice of a 1-year, 2-year, or 3-year renewal for a total of 4 years possible (and without having to return to the home country’s Mexican consulate).
> 
> For current holders of the old FM2 and FM3 visas who are ready to renew, the time accrued on those visas does count toward the 4 year total for the Residente Temporal visa. For example, if someone already has had an FM3 visa for 1 year, and the visa is up for renewal, a Residente Temporal visa can be issued for either 1 year, 2 years, or 3 years. No financial reporting is needed for these renewals. Alan



Quote from my 3 week old post:

"They had taken my 2 year Residente Temporal card away from me to do this tramite. Does that mean in 1 year I have to go back in and pay another $2,350.00 pesos for another 1 year tramited[Permiso de Trabajo] Residente Temporal plus about $3500.00 for the Residente Temporal that I had paid extra for a 2 year Residente Temporal in Nov. that I got on the Vinculo Familiar law? "



Well this morning I went and picked up my new Residente Temporal card with the added "Permiso Para Trabajar" added. It was originally a 2 year RT card and I thought this one would be good for 1 year. Wrong! 

It has the added work permit written on the front and the same expiration date as the RT card they took off me 3 weeks ago. I asked. They said it needs to renewed in about 2 years and all is good. Come in about 30 days before the expiration date to get another one. Alan


----------



## BryansRose

AlanMexicali said:


> Quote from my 3 week old post:
> 
> 
> 
> It has the added work permit written on the front and the same expiration date as the RT card they took off me 3 weeks ago. I asked. They said it needs to renewed in about 2 years and all is good. Come in about 30 days before the expiration date to get another one. Alan


Glad it all worked out ok.


----------



## AlanMexicali

BryansRose said:


> Glad it all worked out ok.


Thank you. They are the nicest bunch of people working there, as you probably found out. Alan


----------



## BryansRose

AlanMexicali said:


> Thank you. They are the nicest bunch of people working there, as you probably found out. Alan


Yes! When I first went for my permanente, I didn't have a letter requesting the change to permanent (didn't know I needed one). The woman typed one up quickly on her computer, printed it, and had me sign it. Seems like the opposite of typical bureaucracy! We are lucky in SLP.


----------



## AlanMexicali

BryansRose said:


> Yes! When I first went for my permanente, I didn't have a letter requesting the change to permanent (didn't know I needed one). The woman typed one up quickly on her computer, printed it, and had me sign it. Seems like the opposite of typical bureaucracy! We are lucky in SLP.


Yes, after 4 1/2 years I feel the average person in SLP is of the "bien educado" rank. We are very lucky to live here. Alan


----------



## Karla75

Hi,

Has anyone gone from residente temporal (old system) to permanente (new system) in Mexico City recently? Any idea about how long the process takes. My visitante temporal visa expired in Dec, so I went through the renewal process in Nov shortly after the law changed only to be told that the 4th renewal no longer existed and that I should apply for permanente status. Did so in Jan, within the allotted time, then was told I needed to rephrase the letter asking for the change and pay an additiona $1,000 for the revisión de documentos (I'm doing all of this through an immigration lawyer, mind you....). Did that within the allotted time....and now I'm still waiting. The registro de alcance was dated Feb 22nd...we're now well past the 20 working days limit for a reply, and nothing. I asked my lawyer and she just said that nothing seems to be moving because they have so many back logged requests. Any recommendations?

Thanks!


----------



## gudgrief

BryansRose said:


> As usual, the INM offices don't always follow the same rules. I asked at the office in SLP if, with 4 years temporary, I still needed to provide the financial documentation, and I was told that yes, I did. *sigh*


You observation is consistent with what I have encountered in Mexico.

Rules may vary considerably from city to city, office to office for any government agency.

I got a slightly different response when I asked at the INM office here in Zacatecas around 2 weeks ago. I'm completing 5 years as No Inmigrante/Rentista - No Lucrativa/Visitante on September 2. With all the chatter here, I was concerned about the financial requirements under the new rules.

I started the conversation stating that I live off pensions from the US and asked if I could qualify for Residente Permanente. The young lady gave me some Xeroxed sheets that laid out the step by step procedure online and in the office. As she walked me through it on paper, she pointed out that even though I will need to submit copies of 6 months of bank statements, the fact that I have been supporting myself for 5 years is proof enough and that the specific amount for someone coming into Mexico for the first time doesn't apply. I'm pretty sure that someone completing 4 years would have gotten the same answer.

I lived and worked in Saltillo for 4 years 1982-1985 on an FM2 returning to the US at the end of that period.

I retired from the US to Zacatecas in September 2008.

I found the people at the INM office here to be friendly, courteous and accurate as long as I made sure I understood what they were telling me by either reading the answer back or asking the question again in a different way. With the exception of my missing a step on the checklist, everythng has gone as smooth as silk.

When I renewed in 2012, there was a whole new crew in the INM office. I was still under the old rules and I was still treated like a welcome guest and my card was ready the following Monday.

My Spanish is pretty decent and after almost 9 years in Mexico, I'm pretty certain I understood. I stick to Spanish unless the other person(s) switch to English. 

I can't start the process till August 15 unless I cancel a couple of appointments in the US. Being a belt and suspenders type, I'll check back in mid August to see how long it is taking to get the card back. If I have to spend all September in Zacatecas, it's no crisis. Bewteen the celebration of the city's founding and Patron's Days (Patrocinio,) the National Fair and cultural events during the month, it's a good time to be here.


----------



## Isla Verde

Karla75 said:


> Hi,
> 
> Has anyone gone from residente temporal (old system) to permanente (new system) in Mexico City recently? Any idea about how long the process takes. My visitante temporal visa expired in Dec, so I went through the renewal process in Nov shortly after the law changed only to be told that the 4th renewal no longer existed and that I should apply for permanente status. Did so in Jan, within the allotted time, then was told I needed to rephrase the letter asking for the change and pay an additiona $1,000 for the revisión de documentos (I'm doing all of this through an immigration lawyer, mind you....). Did that within the allotted time....and now I'm still waiting. The registro de alcance was dated Feb 22nd...we're now well past the 20 working days limit for a reply, and nothing. I asked my lawyer and she just said that nothing seems to be moving because they have so many back logged requests. Any recommendations?
> 
> Thanks!


I live in Mexico City and will be doing this very thing next week. I'll let you know how it goes for me.

The only recommendation I can give you is to wait patiently (and maybe bug your lawyer on a regular basis for news). This year things are bound to take a lot longer than usual because of all the changes in the rules. A friend in another city had to wait three months for this same _trámite_ to run its course and receive his RP card. 

Good luck to both of us!


----------



## gudgrief

Isla Verde said:


> I live in Mexico City and will be doing this very thing next week. I'll let you know how it goes for me.
> 
> The only recommendation I can give you is to wait patiently (and maybe bug your lawyer on a regular basis for news). This year things are bound to take a lot longer than usual because of all the changes in the rules. A friend in another city had to wait three months for this same _trámite_ to run its course and receive his RP card.
> 
> Good luck to both of us!


This brings up another concern. If the process takes so long, is there a way to leave Mexico and return in an emergency and has anyone been able to do that?

I'll be very interested to here about your experience with the renewal process.


----------



## Isla Verde

gudgrief said:


> This brings up another concern. If the process takes so long, is there a way to leave Mexico and return in an emergency and has anyone been able to do that?
> 
> I'll be very interested to here about your experience with the renewal process.


I think there is a way to get permission to leave the country while your visa is _en trámite_, but I don't have the details at my fingertips. Hopefully, another member of the forum does.

I'll keep the forum up to date on my interactions with INM starting on Monday.


----------



## Karla75

Thanks, Isla Verde! And good luck next week!
Here's to hoping we all hear back soon and it's good news!

Gudgrief: apparently you can apply for permission to leave the country while your visa is in process using the solicitud de estancia form on the INM page (sorry, I still can't post URLs but you should be able to find it quickly by searching the INM page)

Under qué desea hacer you can select "obtener permiso de salida y regreso"

I'd planned on visiting friends outside of Mexico in May but I ended up cancelling the trip as I'm afraid adding this extra permit to the back log they already have in INM might slow things down even more. Hopefully things will start moving more smoothly in the future- I think it's just a matter of getting over the learning curve in terms of how the new immigration law will be applied!


----------



## TundraGreen

Just to provide an account of one experience. I just picked up my Residente Permanente card on Monday. The following is the time line of my experience.
---------------

January 23rd - Visited INM. Turned in initial paperwork including request for change of status, copies of bank statements partially translated. 

January 23rd - Paperwork registered and assigned, according to web.

February 15th - Request classified, according to web.

March 4th - Visited INM. They asked for translations of bank statements.

March 5th - Gave them translations. Turned in proof of payment of fee to change status, $1000 pesos.

March 6th - Registered change, according to web.

March 7th - Registered payment, according to web.

March 25th - Visited INM. They asked for translations. I showed them that they already had them. Turned in proof of payment, $3815 pesos. Turned in photos and was fingerprinted. Was told to come back in 20 days.

April 15th - Visited INM. Picked up new Residente Permanente card.


----------



## Karla75

Thanks, TundraGreen!

Did you visit INM "on your own" or were these visits in response to "Presentarse en las oficinas" notices on their website? My lawyer says she's been filling out tickets trying to get a response, but nothing yet- she said the tickets have replaced the old option to schedule appointments to ask for a resolution. I don't want to be unnecessarily bothersome as that's usually pretty universally counterproductive, but I wonder if going in to ask in person might help move things along. They'd previously (and since the law changed) been very prompt in requesting more info., etc. but they may be so bogged down at this point that really nothing is getting done very quickly.


----------



## gudgrief

TundraGreen said:


> Just to provide an account of one experience. I just picked up my Residente Permanente card on Monday. The following is the time line of my experience.
> ---------------
> 
> January 23rd - Visited INM. Turned in initial paperwork including request for change of status, copies of bank statements partially translated.
> 
> January 23rd - Paperwork registered and assigned, according to web.
> 
> February 15th - Request classified, according to web.
> 
> March 4th - Visited INM. They asked for translations of bank statements.
> 
> March 5th - Gave them translations. Turned in proof of payment of fee to change status, $1000 pesos.
> 
> March 6th - Registered change, according to web.
> 
> March 7th - Registered payment, according to web.
> 
> March 25th - Visited INM. They asked for translations. I showed them that they already had them. Turned in proof of payment, $3815 pesos. Turned in photos and was fingerprinted. Was told to come back in 20 days.
> 
> April 15th - Visited INM. Picked up new Residente Permanente card.


Wow! Thanks for the info. I've never been asked for translations of anything before. I'll have to verify that when I check back in August and I guess I better inquire about the emergency exit and return permission. Hopefully lead times will be shorter by then.

Also, I was told the $1000MXN and $3815MXN payments happened at the same time, just that they apply to two different concepts.

Thanks again. Forewarned is forearmed.


----------



## TundraGreen

Karla75 said:


> Thanks, TundraGreen!
> 
> Did you visit INM "on your own" or were these visits in response to "Presentarse en las oficinas" notices on their website? My lawyer says she's been filling out tickets trying to get a response, but nothing yet- she said the tickets have replaced the old option to schedule appointments to ask for a resolution. I don't want to be unnecessarily bothersome as that's usually pretty universally counterproductive, but I wonder if going in to ask in person might help move things along. They'd previously (and since the law changed) been very prompt in requesting more info., etc. but they may be so bogged down at this point that really nothing is getting done very quickly.


All of the visits were on my own. When I went on the March 1st (I left out that visit) they told me I needed to come back on the 4th. And the web site told me to come in on the 4th. I don't know if they were about to ask me to come in anyway or if my visit on the 1st triggered it. Anyway on March 1st and 25th, I visited them just because it seemed like a long time with nothing happening.


----------



## circle110

gudgrief said:


> This brings up another concern. If the process takes so long, is there a way to leave Mexico and return in an emergency and has anyone been able to do that?
> 
> I'll be very interested to here about your experience with the renewal process.


Yes, it's called a "permiso de salida y regreso" and it costs $320 MP. I just got back from a trip where I used one. You start the process at the same place online where you start your visa renewal process except you choose the "permiso de salida y regreso" option on the top drop down. Then you go to INM, get the form to pay at the bank and they tell you to bring in photos like for your visa and the bank receipt plus a letter explaining why you need to leave the country. They take it all, process it, and you pick up your permiso the next day.

You take the permiso paper to INM as you leave the country (either at the airport or at the border) and they stamp it. You don't use an FMM when leaving with this method like you usually do. Then, when you return to Mexico you fill out a new FMM as if you were a tourist. When you enter the country, the folks at INM put the information from your permiso on the FMM, keep it and give you back the original permiso.


----------



## circle110

A post about my truly HORRIBLE experience renewing/converting my visa at INM San Miguel. I'm jealous of all of you who had pleasant experiences. As you read this be aware that each trip to San Miguel is a two hour drive round trip burning up $100 pesos in gas. Anyway, here it goes:

My old "no-inmigrante" expired on March 7th so I went to INM I went in January to ask what to bring so that I would be prepared when I started the process 2/8. 

On 2/8 they told me I needed different documentation than they had previously asked for regarding my marriage. I was also told that I should apply for a 3 year "residente permanente" because I would have to be res. temp. for that long until my marriage to a Mex. national allowed me to switch to res. permanente.The clerk told me to translate my marriage license myself since I seemed capable of it to him.

I returned a week later with the docs they asked for and they told me I instead should apply for a 1 year instead of 3 year since I am married to a Mexican. I asked the manager of the clerks which it should be - 1 or 3 years. He said he didn't know. All of the "bigwigs" there at SM INM had to pow wow for half an hour and they finally decided that 2 years was the correct amount of time as a res. temp. before I could become permanente. They then informed me that in reality I needed a certified translator to certify my translation.

I returned on 2/20 with all the things they asked for and it was finally accepted. They told me to come back on 2/27 for fingerprinting.

I returned on 2/27 for fingerprinting and they told me the new visa would be ready in a week.

I returned on 3/10 but they looked it up and told me that the visa was not ready. I had to leave the country so I needed to get a "permiso de salida y regreso". They told me to come back first thing the next morning with all the stuff (see my previous post) and they could process it that same day. 

So I returned the next morning at 9:00 sharp. They took my documents and told me to ask the secretary what time it would be ready. The secretary told me that they weren't doing any work that day so I should come back the next day. I explained the two hour drive and she said that it didn't matter, they weren't doing any work that day. (%%$!$#^!!!)

So I came back the next day and picked it up. Still no visa of course.

I returned from the US and stopped in again on 4/10, just sure that my visa would be ready. I was en route to DF from Guanajuato so I figured I would pass by San Miguel to pick up the visa and then pass by Aduana in Queretaro to extend my car permit. Well they told me that it still wasn't ready!

I waited until today to try again and when I went to the window the guy said that the visa had been there since 3/9!!! I asked him why they didn't give it to me the previous two times I came in to ask and that it had cost me quite a bit of unnecessary time and money. He got angry at me and said that I should have asked him the previous two times. I told him that I DID ask him and he said it wasn't there. He began mumbling nonsense so I took my visa and left.

So 72 days and 10 wasted trips to INM later, I finally have my visa.

To end this on a positive note, the folks at Aduana in Queretaro were wonderful and it took the very nice young lady there all of 5 minutes to do the renewal. She was very eager to practice her obviously recently learned English and was pleasant, professional and efficient. They should send her to do a training course at San Miguel INM!

Anyway... thanks for letting me vent.


----------



## intersect1433

Temporary visa for sure !


----------



## gudgrief

circle110 said:


> Yes, it's called a "permiso de salida y regreso" and it costs $320 MP. I just got back from a trip where I used one. You start the process at the same place online where you start your visa renewal process except you choose the "permiso de salida y regreso" option on the top drop down. Then you go to INM, get the form to pay at the bank and they tell you to bring in photos like for your visa and the bank receipt plus a letter explaining why you need to leave the country. They take it all, process it, and you pick up your permiso the next day.
> 
> You take the permiso paper to INM as you leave the country (either at the airport or at the border) and they stamp it. You don't use an FMM when leaving with this method like you usually do. Then, when you return to Mexico you fill out a new FMM as if you were a tourist. When you enter the country, the folks at INM put the information from your permiso on the FMM, keep it and give you back the original permiso.


I'm glad to hear it's that easy. 

As a US citizen I have not had a visa since September of 2009. There's a terminology problem here. I mean not disrespect, but I'd like to be absolutely certain I understand.

If your "visa" (temporary or permanent resident credential) is in tramite, you don't have it to present to anyone. If you do have it, you don't need special permission. Or do I misunderstand?

Thanks for your patience.


----------



## circle110

If your visa/credential (either "residente temporal" or "residente permanente") is "en tramite" and you need to leave the country, you must apply for, receive and use the "permiso de salida y regreso" at the Mexican border both leaving and returning. There is no other option without risking risking losing your migatory status.

Your "permiso de salida y regreso" becomes your de facto visa as far as leaving the country is concerned.

If your visa/credential is "en tramite" and you need to show a migratory document within Mexico, INM gives you a document during the application process that shows that your visa is "en tramite" and that will serve as a kind of substitute visa/credential within Mexico until you finally have that little plastic card in hand. That document is only useful within Mexico. If you are leaving/returning internationally, you need the "permiso de salida y regreso".

If you could clearly explain your particular situation, perhaps we could offer more specific suggestions.


----------



## gudgrief

circle110 said:


> A post about my truly HORRIBLE experience renewing/converting my visa at INM San Miguel. I'm jealous of all of you who had pleasant experiences. As you read this be aware that each trip to San Miguel is a two hour drive round trip burning up $100 pesos in gas. Anyway, here it goes:
> 
> My old "no-inmigrante" expired on March 7th so I went to INM I went in January to ask what to bring so that I would be prepared when I started the process 2/8.
> 
> On 2/8 they told me I needed different documentation than they had previously asked for regarding my marriage. I was also told that I should apply for a 3 year "residente permanente" because I would have to be res. temp. for that long until my marriage to a Mex. national allowed me to switch to res. permanente.The clerk told me to translate my marriage license myself since I seemed capable of it to him.
> 
> I returned a week later with the docs they asked for and they told me I instead should apply for a 1 year instead of 3 year since I am married to a Mexican. I asked the manager of the clerks which it should be - 1 or 3 years. He said he didn't know. All of the "bigwigs" there at SM INM had to pow wow for half an hour and they finally decided that 2 years was the correct amount of time as a res. temp. before I could become permanente. They then informed me that in reality I needed a certified translator to certify my translation.
> 
> I returned on 2/20 with all the things they asked for and it was finally accepted. They told me to come back on 2/27 for fingerprinting.
> 
> I returned on 2/27 for fingerprinting and they told me the new visa would be ready in a week.
> 
> I returned on 3/10 but they looked it up and told me that the visa was not ready. I had to leave the country so I needed to get a "permiso de salida y regreso". They told me to come back first thing the next morning with all the stuff (see my previous post) and they could process it that same day.
> 
> So I returned the next morning at 9:00 sharp. They took my documents and told me to ask the secretary what time it would be ready. The secretary told me that they weren't doing any work that day so I should come back the next day. I explained the two hour drive and she said that it didn't matter, they weren't doing any work that day. (%%$!$#^!!!)
> 
> So I came back the next day and picked it up. Still no visa of course.
> 
> I returned from the US and stopped in again on 4/10, just sure that my visa would be ready. I was en route to DF from Guanajuato so I figured I would pass by San Miguel to pick up the visa and then pass by Aduana in Queretaro to extend my car permit. Well they told me that it still wasn't ready!
> 
> I waited until today to try again and when I went to the window the guy said that the visa had been there since 3/9!!! I asked him why they didn't give it to me the previous two times I came in to ask and that it had cost me quite a bit of unnecessary time and money. He got angry at me and said that I should have asked him the previous two times. I told him that I DID ask him and he said it wasn't there. He began mumbling nonsense so I took my visa and left.
> 
> So 72 days and 10 wasted trips to INM later, I finally have my visa.
> 
> To end this on a positive note, the folks at Aduana in Queretaro were wonderful and it took the very nice young lady there all of 5 minutes to do the renewal. She was very eager to practice her obviously recently learned English and was pleasant, professional and efficient. They should send her to do a training course at San Miguel INM!
> 
> Anyway... thanks for letting me vent.


OMG! That's about the worst horror story I've heard since I started on expat Forum. Now I understand. I really appreciate your time and patience. You situation is quite different from mine. Different INM offices handle things differently. I'll have to wait and see till August. It's good to know that the "permiso de salida y regreso" should be easy and cheap to come by.

I guess it was dumb luck picking a state capital to live in. It's not such a hike to get to INM.

Good luck with the rest of the process.


----------



## gudgrief

That clears it up, thanks.


----------



## TedHead

Does the Permanent resident status have any tax issues? Reporting? filings of any sort? any restrictions? I understand you can only be out of mexico for 18 months in a 5 year period.......Finally does anyone know the cost of the temporary (5 Yr ) visa


----------



## RVGRINGO

Ted, 
Your examples, above, refer to the old laws and rules. Those are now history; replaced by new laws and rules which are now being implemented in a very confusing an chaotic manner, with no coordination between agencies; a true SNAFU. 
The new Residente Temporal visa for a non-working person is now limited to 4 years, for example, and has some considerable financial qualifications. There are many threads on the topic.


----------



## gudgrief

TedHead said:


> Does the Permanent resident status have any tax issues? Reporting? filings of any sort? any restrictions? I understand you can only be out of mexico for 18 months in a 5 year period.......Finally does anyone know the cost of the temporary (5 Yr ) visa


When I started the process in 2008, I found the Mexican Consulate quite helpful. Essential if Canadians are required to get a Visa I their home country these days.

It appears your information is based on old laws and reguations. The old FM2/FM3 no longer exist.

You are either a Residente Temporal or Residente Permanente and the document you get is a laminated card not a visa. There are no restrictions on how many days you can be out of the country.

Temporary 1 year $3,130.00MXN.
Temporary 2 years $4,690.00MXN
Temporary 3 years $5,940.00MXN.
Temporary 4 years $7.040.00MXN.
Convert to Permanent $3,815.00MXN.

There will almost certainly be an approx. $1,000MXN fee for each transaction for examining and certifying the documents you must submit.

To qualify for Residente Permanente immediately (after 1 year as Temporal, I am told in practice), you have to meet some pretty high requirements for monthly income or investment in Mexico.

The monthly income requirement for Temporary used to be around $1500US/mo. for 1 person, $500US/mo. for each additional person. I can’t find the current minimum on the government website below where I got the above information from.
http://www.inm.gob.mx/static/Tramit...por_autorizacion_de_condicion_de_estancia.pdf

At the end of the 4th year you really have to convert to permanent because the cost of going back to your home country and starting over again with the visa and then getting a Residente Temporal when you return is probably prohibitive.

If you plan to stay more than 4 years and meet the income requirements, it makes sense to convert to Permanente as early as possible.

I am told by immigration that if you convert to Permanente after 4 years, in my case 5, the strict minimum income requirements are not enforced, having been able to meet the requirements of Temporal for 4 years and continuing to have that level of income and proving it for one last time when you apply for Permanente is proof enough you won’t become a burden on the state..

Mexican income is taxed.

I hear two different stories regarding US or other non Mexican income.
It's either not taxed or the law that requires it to be taxed has not been enforced and that may change soon.

Perhaps your post will get some specific and authoritative responses regarding which income is taxed. It certainly wouldn’t hurt to call the nearest Mexican Consulate.

I hope this helps some.

Good luck.


----------



## BryansRose

>>At the end of the 4th year you really have to convert to permanent because the cost of going back to your home country and starting over again with the visa and then getting a Residente Temporal when you return is probably prohibitive.<<

Just remember, when you convert to "residente permanente", if you have been here with a "temporarily imported" US car, it becomes illegal for you to have it. You have to either return to the US to sell it, or see if you can nationalize it here, both of which can be prohibitively expensive, too, as I found out.


----------



## gudgrief

BryansRose said:


> Just remember, when you convert to "residente permanente", if you have been here with a "temporarily imported" US car, it becomes illegal for you to have it. You have to either return to the US to sell it, or see if you can nationalize it here, both of which can be prohibitively expensive, too, as I found out.


Good point. I missed that because i don't own and don't want to own a car.

Thanks.


----------



## BryansRose

gudgrief said:


> Good point. I missed that because i don't own and don't want to own a car.
> 
> Thanks.


Good for you! I rarely use mine. I take the bus or walk whenever possible. It's so rare to find a norteamericano who doesn't have a car! :clap2:


----------



## gudgrief

I'm using the smartphone app so I can't see where you live. Zacatecas is so compact that I walk or take the bus or a combinaton of the two for most everything. Taxis are reserved for the monthly trip to Walmart and Sams. If I loaded down or feeling lazy, I'll take a 25 peso cab ride instead of climbing the 64 step,100ft. trek up to my place.


----------



## BryansRose

I live in San Luis Potosi. It's not as compact as Zacatecas, but it's fairly easy to walk/bus to things. I use the car for grocery shopping, since that tends to be heavy, going to the dr., visiting friends, where I don't want to wait for a bus, or there's not one that is conveniently nearby. I'm sure I could survive with taxis, but the car is something I guess I'm not ready to give up. 

I have my INAPAM Boletur so I get to ride for half price, which makes the bus even more attractive.


----------



## gudgrief

BryansRose said:


> I live in San Luis Potosi. It's not as compact as Zacatecas, but it's fairly easy to walk/bus to things. I use the car for grocery shopping, since that tends to be heavy, going to the dr., visiting friends, where I don't want to wait for a bus, or there's not one that is conveniently nearby. I'm sure I could survive with taxis, but the car is something I guess I'm not ready to give up.
> 
> I have my INAPAM Boletur so I get to ride for half price, which makes the bus even more attractive.


Thanks. I'm back on the 'puter. Worth checking out.

I have a friend who owns a hostal here. Maybe he can get me a monthly rate in SLP for an extended looksee.


----------



## Hound Dog

[_QUOTE=TundraGreen;1087036]I think that is incorrect. With sufficient income you can apply for change of status to Residente Permanente directly now.

*Residente Permanente is indeed the new version of inmigrado. And if you have inmigrado status now you are eligible for Residente Permanente with no proof of income required. *

However, one change from the old system is that now, with sufficient income, you can become Residente Permanente with no waiting 4 or 5 years as Temporal. Without sufficient income, you still have to wait a few years.[/QUOTE]_

We have held "Inmigrado" (Permanent Resident) status since November, 2010 after four years as FM-3 and five years as FM-2 holders. One of the great pleasures in life that we have enjoyed during the past 2 1/2 years is that we would never need to enter an INM office again. Now, with the new law, the notion has been put forward that holders of Inmigrado status should eventually turn in their Inmigrado cards for Residente Permanente cards but we are loathe to attempt to do that especially while INM is undergoing these trials and errors with new applicants for both temporary and permanent status so we are thinking - what the hell - just keep the Inmigrado cards indefinitely (or until directly ordered to convert to the new cards) since they never expire or head over to SRE and apply for citizenship since citizenship is our ultimate goal anyway. 

Have any of you actually tried to turn in your Inmigrado cards for Residente Permanente cards? If so, what was your experience? With all that INM is going through with the changes in the law, I think we would be unwelcome there going through what seems an extraneous process at a time when the backlog of imperative work is overwhelming. One does not relish the thought, however, of even the remote possibility of one day being held up at a border crossing or reten even temporarily because of what some immigration officer thinks is an obsolete immigration document.


----------



## maesonna

Hound Dog said:


> Have any of you actually tried to turn in your Inmigrado cards for Residente Permanente cards? If so, what was your experience? With all that INM is going through with the changes in the law, I think we would be unwelcome there going through what seems an extraneous process at a time when the backlog of imperative work is overwhelming. One does not relish the thought, however, of even the remote possibility of one day being held up at a border crossing or reten even temporarily because of what some immigration officer thinks is an obsolete immigration document.


I never had a card, only the booklet. I had been resisting changing it too, because I was feeling unfairly put upon that I had to go back to the INM office after enjoying the freedom of supposedly never having to go back.

But on a trip out of the country in 2011, the official at the airport said, “You can travel with the booklet this time, but you had better have the new card the next time you make an international trip.”

The process was fairly painless, and took two visits a couple of weeks apart – the first visit to submit the documents and the second to pick up the card.


----------



## sputnik

TundraGreen....yes I read the law very closely and from what I read you are correct...but we went to the Dallas Mexican Consulate and the young girl there told us that we could not automatically apply for permanent resident....I told her what the law said and she insisted that we had to apply for Resident Temporal first....so without arguing we have prepared all the paperwork, got our attachment to the visa and on the 8th will go to mexico...then to the INM office and apply...my question to you is do you know if it is possible for us to apply for Permanent there at the INM office or because the attachment in our passports says Residente Temporal, it is too late?

thanks for any help


----------



## TundraGreen

sputnik said:


> TundraGreen....yes I read the law very closely and from what I read you are correct...but we went to the Dallas Mexican Consulate and the young girl there told us that we could not automatically apply for permanent resident....I told her what the law said and she insisted that we had to apply for Resident Temporal first....so without arguing we have prepared all the paperwork, got our attachment to the visa and on the 8th will go to mexico...then to the INM office and apply...my question to you is do you know if it is possible for us to apply for Permanent there at the INM office or because the attachment in our passports says Residente Temporal, it is too late?


It seems like there are several options. 

You can try to convince them to change it to Permanente when they issue the card here in Mexico.

Failing that, you can get the Residente Temporal and immediately apply for a change of status to Residente Permanente.

Or you can just keep the Residente Temporal and apply for Residente Pemanente when the Temporal expires. Is it a one year or multi-year Residente Temporal?

The disadvantage of the middle path is that you will pay for the Residente Temporal, then pay a fee to change status, then pay for the Residente Pemanente, so it will be wasteful.


----------



## gudgrief

There are earlier posts here or on another thread where new immigrants who meet the requirements for permanent from the beginning are required to get temporal for one year. I wish I could point to the examples. Since Mexico City is controlling everything closely, it looks like the consulate was just following orders, My experiance has been that interpretation of the law is as flexible as the bureaucrats want to make it.


----------



## buzzbar

Matches my experience gudgrief. When I was at the initial payment stage of Residente Temporal, the only option given was to pay for a year. On telling the INM Officer I wished to pay for four years, he said all applicants were required to pay for one year and at the end of that period were then able to either pay for single or multiple temporal years or go permanente.


----------



## AlanMexicali

buzzbar said:


> Matches my experience gudgrief. When I was at the initial payment stage of Residente Temporal, the only option given was to pay for a year. On telling the INM Officer I wished to pay for four years, he said all applicants were required to pay for one year and at the end of that period were then able to either pay for single or multiple temporal years or go permanente.


The 1 year policy for first times came after the new year. In Nov. I was given the option for a Residente Temporal 1 to 4 years. I took 2 years.


----------



## buzzbar

Just my luck - always a day late or a dollar short. Is there any formal documentation that's been issued on this in regards to providing income statements at the end of the year?

I think it's a significant change, with many first timers I'm sure having a plan to use income from their home country to meet financial requirements for the initial visa, then intending to get a four year temporal followed by permanent. No requirement then to ever have to provide income to INM.

But if evidence needs to be supplied after a year here, might catch a few people out. I reckon the high ups in Mexico City were reading this forum and saw the posts from the old timers, who were grumbling that first time applicants had it way too easy.


----------



## HarryM10

My wife and I are planning to retire in SMA about this time next year and buy a home there. We have a question: is it better under the new rules to get a temporary resident visa or a permanent one in case things don't work out? We meet the financial qualifications for either one. Also, when should we apply at our local Consulate?


----------



## TundraGreen

HarryM10 said:


> My wife and I are planning to retire in SMA about this time next year and buy a home there. We have a question: is it better under the new rules to get a temporary resident visa or a permanent one in case things don't work out? We meet the financial qualifications for either one. Also, when should we apply at our local Consulate?


Neither visa requires you to stay in Mexico. If things don't work out, you can always leave. The advantage of Permanente over Temporal is that it is permanent. You don't need to go back to Migración, every X years. The advantage of Temporal is that it is cheaper on a one year basis. Of course Permante is cheaper after you start paying for additional years as required with Temporal. 

I really don't see why anyone who is eligible for Residente Permanente and expects to stay longer than a year would go for Residente Temporal instead.


----------



## buzzbar

Agree...as for the timing for the application, the visa given by your local Consulate will be valid for 180 days.


----------



## TundraGreen

TundraGreen said:


> …I really don't see why anyone who is eligible for Residente Permanente and expects to stay longer than a year would go for Residente Temporal instead.


On further reflection…

The different types of visas used to have different rules about driving foreign plated cars. I don't know it that is true anymore, but if it is, it might be a reason to prefer Residente Temporal over Residente Permanente. There also used to be rules about how much time you can spend out of Mexico, with differing rules for different visas. I think those are gone now.


----------



## maesonna

The question about permanent vs resident is actually not something that you need to take a decision on. As Tundra points out, you can leave either way if it doesn’t work out.

Furthermore, there is no longer such a thing as an indefinitely renewable temporary visa. If you stay, you do have to change to permanent at some point. It is not like before, when you could stay indefinitely on an FM3, renewing it year after year. (A consequence of this is why so many people are having trouble with their cars now.)


----------



## BryansRose

TundraGreen said:


> On further reflection…
> 
> The different types of visas used to have different rules about driving foreign plated cars. I don't know it that is true anymore, but if it is, it might be a reason to prefer Residente Temporal over Residente Permanente. There also used to be rules about how much time you can spend out of Mexico, with differing rules for different visas. I think those are gone now.


With a Residente Permanente, you can't bring your US car with you. You'll have to seel it and buy a car in Mexico, or nationalize your US car if you are permitted to.


----------



## RVGRINGO

Nationalizing a US plated car is neither practical nor economical, even if the age and country of manufacture (NAFTA) make it possible for a particular vehicle.


----------



## Isla Verde

buzzbar said:


> Agree...as for the timing for the application, the visa given by your local Consulate will be valid for 180 days.


I have read on this and other forums that the temporary visa you get from your local Consulate is good for 30 days, which gives you time once you're in Mexico to start the ball rolling at INM to finish the paperwork to get your Residente Temporal or Residente Permanente card. The 180 days limit is for a tourist card.


----------



## BryansRose

Isla Verde said:


> I have read on this and other forums that the temporary visa you get from your local Consulate is good for 30 days, which gives you time once you're in Mexico to start the ball rolling at INM to finish the paperwork to get your Residente Temporal or Residente Permanente card. The 180 days limit is for a tourist card.


Isla, did they change the law again? A few months ago, you couldn't apply in Mexico for a Residente Temporal, you had to apply at your local Mexican consulate in your home country.


----------



## AlanMexicali

Isla Verde said:


> I have read on this and other forums that the temporary visa you get from your local Consulate is good for 30 days, which gives you time once you're in Mexico to start the ball rolling at INM to finish the paperwork to get your Residente Temporal or Residente Permanente card. The 180 days limit is for a tourist card.


The Mexican Consulate´s visa they put in your passport is 180 days but when you cross to Mexico you need to get your passport stamped and get a FMM and a TIP if you want all for 30 days. In other words you have 150 days to show up in Mexico and 30 days to have your local INM office process the card.


----------



## Isla Verde

AlanMexicali said:


> The Mexican Consulate´s visa they put in your passport is 180 days but when you cross to Mexico you need to get your passport stamped and get a FMM and a TIP if you want all for 30 days. In other words you have 150 days to show up in Mexico and 30 days to have your local INM office process the card.


Thanks for this clear explanation, Alan.


----------



## AlanMexicali

Isla Verde said:


> Thanks for this clear explanation, Alan.


I should clarify one thing. The 30 days will probably only include you going to the local INM office and they take the FMM and give you a form with your NUT # and password and Plaza # and this will be your temporary INM documentation until they finish processing your card, all the time you will be legally in Mexico not matter how long you have to wait, only the 30 TIP has expired after 30 days if you got one and you might lose your deposit after 15 to 45 days of not notifying ADUANA if you have a Residente Temporal Rentista visa.at that point. No one where I read has done that except people with older TIPS so it is hard to say what will actually happen in this case.

A few first timers got RP visas at Mexican Consulates and 30 day TIPs, went to do the rest at their local INM office and returned their vehicles within the 30 days to the border and out of Mexico, no problem. The few who wanted to nationalize their approved vehicles on the border could not until their card was in hand and I assume returned to have the TIP removed and lost their deposit after 30 or more days late, but they didn´t state that.


----------



## Isla Verde

AlanMexicali said:


> I should clarify one thing. The 30 days will probably only include you going to the local INM office and they take the FMM and give you a form with your NUT # and password and Plaza # and this will be your temporary INM documentation until they finish processing your card, all the time you will be legally in Mexico not matter how long you have to wait, only the 30 TIP has expired after 30 days if you got one and you might lose your deposit after 15 to 45 days of not notifying ADUANA if you have a Residente Temporal Rentista visa.at that point. No one where I read has done that except people with older TIPS so it is hard to say what will actually happen in this case.
> 
> A few first timers got RP visas at Mexican Consulates and 30 day TIPs, went to do the rest at their local INM office and returned their vehicles within the 30 days to the border and out of Mexico, no problem. The few who wanted to nationalize their approved vehicles on the border could not until their card was in hand and I assume returned to have the TIP removed and lost their deposit after 30 or more days late, but they didn´t state that.


Every time I read posts about the complications of having a foreign-plated car in Mexico, my head spins, my eyes pop out of my head, and I'm doubly glad I haven't ever had a car in Mexico, or anywhere else since 1969!


----------



## AlanMexicali

It is a "Número de Pieza " not a Plaza #. 

I presume it might be worth the time and money for many because their vehicle might be what they are happy with.

The 30 TIP for people who were preapproved at a Mexican Consulate I presume was enough time to move their personal property down here [cats and dogs also] and if they got a Residente Temporal Rentista visa they can keep it here. The ones with a Residente Permantente will have to nationalize it or take it back over the border.


----------



## HarryM10

I guess my question yesterday about Residente Temporal vs. Residente Permanente visas generated quite a discussion and I thank everyone for their input on the issue. Is there a single "official" source publication that puts it all in one place? The various websites I visited had varying information.


----------



## Isla Verde

HarryM10 said:


> I guess my question yesterday about Residente Temporal vs. Residente Permanente visas generated quite a discussion and I thank everyone for their input on the issue. Is there a single "official" source publication that puts it all in one place? The various websites I visited had varying information.


A single official source of information - I doubt it very much, unfortunately.


----------



## BryansRose

HarryM10 said:


> I guess my question yesterday about Residente Temporal vs. Residente Permanente visas generated quite a discussion and I thank everyone for their input on the issue. Is there a single "official" source publication that puts it all in one place? The various websites I visited had varying information.


My first response was to laugh.  I think most of us have found out the hard way that there is no "official" source for much of anything, and many sources are conflicting, and different offices of the same agency (i.e. immigration) give out different information. Although the Inmigracion has gotten much better information online these past couple years. 

I come to this forum and other internet sources and try to find a consensus on whatever it is I need to know. 

And there are no "renewal notices" when you need to get papers renewed. So you need to keep track of all your important documents.


----------



## Isla Verde

BryansRose said:


> My first response was to laugh.  I think most of us have found out the hard way that there is no "official" source for much of anything, and many sources are conflicting, and different offices of the same agency (i.e. immigration) give out different information. ...


Sometimes within the same INM office, you'll get conflicting information from different people who work there.


----------



## HarryM10

BryansRose said:


> My first response was to laugh.  I think most of us have found out the hard way that there is no "official" source for much of anything, and many sources are conflicting, and different offices of the same agency (i.e. immigration) give out different information. Although the Inmigracion has gotten much better information online these past couple years.
> 
> I come to this forum and other internet sources and try to find a consensus on whatever it is I need to know.
> 
> And there are no "renewal notices" when you need to get papers renewed. So you need to keep track of all your important documents.


Thanks, I gathered as much from earlier discussions but remained hopeful. Can you let me know where I can find a couple of the Internet sources you mentioned? Thanks again.


----------



## TundraGreen

HarryM10 said:


> Thanks, I gathered as much from earlier discussions but remained hopeful. Can you let me know where I can find a couple of the Internet sources you mentioned? Thanks again.


Migración home page

Document implementing current law

Text of the law

All are in Spanish. Probably none of them are what you are looking for, but these are the original sources.


----------



## RVGRINGO

Any information you receive from any source is subject to immediate and confusing change. All original sources are bound to be out of date by the time you read them.


----------



## BryansRose

HarryM10 said:


> Thanks, I gathered as much from earlier discussions but remained hopeful. Can you let me know where I can find a couple of the Internet sources you mentioned? Thanks again.


This site spells out the requirements for visas very well. It outlines all sorts of situations, including students, people married to Mexican citizens, and all the more usual cases. It's also at least partly in English.


----------



## HarryM10

BryansRose said:


> This site spells out the requirements for visas very well. It outlines all sorts of situations, including students, people married to Mexican citizens, and all the more usual cases. It's also at least partly in English.


Thanks, BryansRose, but there was no link to the site you mention in your post.


----------



## BryansRose

HarryM10 said:


> Thanks, BryansRose, but there was no link to the site you mention in your post.


*sigh* I forget to do that so often. Sorry. 

Inicio - Instituto Nacional de Migración


----------



## HarryM10

HarryM10 said:


> Thanks, BryansRose, but there was no link to the site you mention in your post.


Thanks much.


----------

