# advice on house purchase please



## helcatamy (Jun 11, 2011)

Hi all, we are in the process of buying a house near Baza, we fly out next week to get our numbers and pay the deposit etc, what i need is a bit of advise please. Our estate agent arranged our loan through bank caja sur and opened a bank account for us to transfer the 300 for the valuation, we have to also get the deposit money (3000) over there in time for next week so I am thinking of transfering it into this same spanish bank account the they opened for us but is this safe do you think? I mean so far everything has been by the book, we have the nota simple,looks good, we have the contract being drawn up, the estate agent seems genuine and has a good website, we saw several of their properties (among many!) and our estate agent has been very helpful so I have no actual reason to suspect anything dodgy, it is merely that this is a lot of money to transfer to a bankaccount someone else opened for us.... we do have to then go to the bank and transfer it to the lawyer to hold.....opinions would be appreciated! Thanks!!! Helen


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

I dont want to inject concern into the situation, please believe me.

I wouldn't have allowed an estate agent to open a bank account for me unless I was sure he didn't have access to it.

I wouldn't pay a deposit or any payment for a house I was buying to an estate agent.

I would make sure that the Solicitor I was using was completely independent and recommended (NOT by the estate agent)

If you are happy with the above and your solicitor is OK, then why not consider the possibility of transferring the money direct to the solicitor?

I would consider coming over at every opportunity to personally see what is happening. Thats what we did.

If I had a euro for every time someone said we didnt think there was anything dodgy, I'd be rich! 

Treat it the same way you would treat a UK purchase. In other words deal with the professionals, rather than the estate agent  As long as they are happy with the legalities and you have all your paperwork then you should be fine


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## jp1 (Jun 11, 2011)

helcatamy said:


> Hi all, we are in the process of buying a house near Baza, we fly out next week to get our numbers and pay the deposit etc, what i need is a bit of advise please. Our estate agent arranged our loan through bank caja sur and opened a bank account for us to transfer the 300 for the valuation, we have to also get the deposit money (3000) over there in time for next week so I am thinking of transfering it into this same spanish bank account the they opened for us but is this safe do you think? I mean so far everything has been by the book, we have the nota simple,looks good, we have the contract being drawn up, the estate agent seems genuine and has a good website, we saw several of their properties (among many!) and our estate agent has been very helpful so I have no actual reason to suspect anything dodgy, it is merely that this is a lot of money to transfer to a bankaccount someone else opened for us.... we do have to then go to the bank and transfer it to the lawyer to hold.....opinions would be appreciated! Thanks!!! Helen


OK here are some questions for you.

1) Do you have an independent lawyer not associated with the agent, vendor, local town??

2) Do you have a NIE number

3) Have you signed a private sales contract

4) Who is the current owner. Private, developer?


What you are doing is exposing yourself to the opportunity to be scammed, I am not suggesting this will happen but I would not have done what you have done.


Spanish rules are not always applied, but here are some things to consider.


1) I am pretty sure you need a NIE number too open a bank account, I didn't have one, but I opened it almost 10 years ago and it's in joint names with my Spanish wife who does have a NIF. 

So is this account definitely in your name?

Here is my main point that I have stated many times on other forums.

Why are you paying a deposit? The Spanish property market is DEAD, millions of properties screaming for an owner. Millions of owners screaming for a buyer. If you don't pay this deposit is the seller, going to sell to someone else 

£3000 is not a lot, but too much for the given climate. Offer 500 to show that you are serious.

But before you do anything make sure

1) Bank account is in your name only
2) You have, and understand the private sale contract (at which point SMALL deposit is paid and contract signed)
3) The house is legal, has LFO, has no debt, has no community owing.
4) Don't use the legal services of the agent find your own.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

I didnt know that estate agents could open bank accounts for other people or get loans come to that?? Mine certainly couldnt, altho in fairness we were renting. If they've opened it in their name and they are financially unstable (and many are here), then any money in it could be taken.......

Dont do, sign or spend anything til you are here and maybe go and see an independent abogado/solicitor or gestoria before you do anything else. 

Jo xxx


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## helcatamy (Jun 11, 2011)

hi all thanks for that, well we cannot go any further with our spanish loan until we have our nie numbers and that is why we are comingout next weekend, the bank will not proceed with the loan until we have the contract and our lawyer is going to be the one i transfer the deposit to. the bank account is meant to be the one we will receive our loan into and then pay off the loan into, am i able to setup any bank accounts in spain from here do you know? that would be the best thing if i can set up one from here online and then work from there.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

helcatamy said:


> hi all thanks for that, well we cannot go any further with our spanish loan until we have our nie numbers and that is why we are comingout next weekend, the bank will not proceed with the loan until we have the contract and our lawyer is going to be the one i transfer the deposit to. the bank account is meant to be the one we will receive our loan into and then pay off the loan into, am i able to setup any bank accounts in spain from here do you know? that would be the best thing if i can set up one from here online and then work from there.


There are Spanish banks in the UK where you can open up an account - in fact Santander is a spanish bank. You can set one up, but only as a visitor without an NIE number. Have you arranged times to get your NIE number??? In my area (and its different across spain) you have to go to the office, pick up the necessary forms to fill in and they give you an appointment (for a week or two ahead) to return with all the paperwork filled up and get the number. I think you can also do it in the Spanish embassy in the UK???

Are you planning to live in your Spanish house or is it just a holiday home??

Jo xxx


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## helcatamy (Jun 11, 2011)

Hi Jo yes we have appointment setup, we have the forms already so that part is actually ok! I will try santander then, I think I looked at that before but couldn't do it for some reason, not sure! We are going to do the place up and when the kids are grown up and independant in 8ish years wewill move, as soon as possible really, we fell in love with andalucia and can't wait to get out there but you know how it is, life gets in the way! Keeping everything crossed that this goes ok


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

helcatamy said:


> Hi Jo yes we have appointment setup, we have the forms already so that part is actually ok! I will try santander then, I think I looked at that before but couldn't do it for some reason, not sure! We are going to do the place up and when the kids are grown up and independant in 8ish years wewill move, as soon as possible really, we fell in love with andalucia and can't wait to get out there but you know how it is, life gets in the way! Keeping everything crossed that this goes ok



I know, we'd have moved over here years ago if it hadnt been for "life". In fact thats one of my sorrows that we didnt do it sooner. We arrived just as the recession started  Had we have done it sooner, I think we'd have had it a lot easier!

Jo xxx


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## helcatamy (Jun 11, 2011)

Hi Jo yes I wish I had done it 5 years ago when I first thought about it, then I would be over there all settled down but at leats there is an 'end'in sight! Our loan is only over 5 years so we will be done then we just have to wait for the right time. The house we found is so perfect though, such a wonderful property,lots of work to do but nota simple is in order, have that and managed my dodgy translation of it! Where did you relocate to?


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

helcatamy said:


> Hi Jo yes I wish I had done it 5 years ago when I first thought about it, then I would be over there all settled down but at leats there is an 'end'in sight! Our loan is only over 5 years so we will be done then we just have to wait for the right time. The house we found is so perfect though, such a wonderful property,lots of work to do but nota simple is in order, have that and managed my dodgy translation of it! Where did you relocate to?



We started in the very Spanish town of Alhaurin de la Torre, and are now in the "multi national" town of Benalmadena (well on the outskirts) it was better for the kids and there is a bit more life here. We only rent, and actually I'm glad we did as it has given us the freedom to find where we wanted to be, Also buying here is nothing like buying in the UK, the rules and the minefield of red tape and regualtions is astounding - so I worry for you a bit. That said, I'm sure that you'll sail through this and I'm just being over-cautious!!! Just be careful with parting with any money. 

Sounds like fun, doing up your own place in Spain tho!!It is a lovely place to live, the weather, the scenery, the people..... 

Jo xxx


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

I get "proper " translations of everything . It's too important a deal to sign a document you don't understand. It'll cost you, but...


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## helcatamy (Jun 11, 2011)

yes I have a friend who is fluent and will be helping me, I just wanted to read it beforehand so did my own first!!


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

helcatamy said:


> hi all thanks for that, well we cannot go any further with our spanish loan until we have our nie numbers and that is why we are comingout next weekend, the bank will not proceed with the loan until we have the contract and our lawyer is going to be the one i transfer the deposit to. the bank account is meant to be the one we will receive our loan into and then pay off the loan into, am i able to setup any bank accounts in spain from here do you know? that would be the best thing if i can set up one from here online and then work from there.


More often than not you will need to go to your bank, and to be honest thats probably the best way to do it. Your solicitor can get your NIE for you without you being there.

I am presuming that the mortgage will be paid from UK funds, i.e. you will be reliant on the rate of exchange. The best way to handle this is to get an account with someone like currencies direct. Set up a d/d from UK bank account to CD for the amount of your mortgage payments, and it will be transferred to the Spanish account in euros every month. No charge, and good rates of exchange


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

jp1 said:


> What you are doing is exposing yourself to the opportunity to be scammed, I am not suggesting this will happen but I would not have done what you have done.


Not sure why you are saying that .... she just needs to ensure that her family are the only people on the mandate. She already said she is paying the solicitor, not the estate agent.


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## helcatamy (Jun 11, 2011)

yes I do not think I am set up to be scammed, they have not ever asked me to transfer the 3000 into the account,only the valuation 300, it is me that is trying to get the cheapest and simplest way for getting the 3000 to spain to pay to our solictor to hold. does anyone know how long it takes to transfer funds using hifx from a uk bank to spanish? I am just waiting now to get more info about the spanish bank account, it was setup with my passport and they want my nie number to continue which makes sense. I have a hifx account setup for making the payments and it seems quite good, I just do not want to be in the position when I am out there of having the money but its in my uk bank and then not being able to get the contract sorted etc as we are only there for 2 days :-( I think I am even more confused than when I started this!!


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

I'm going to say this and I dont want you to take offense. But buying a house in Spain is a very complicated experience. Its fraught with dangers and isnt something that I would advise til you've lived here and understand the way things work here! There are many illegal builds, many illegal reformed/done up properties, there are dodgy agents and solicitors, there are squillions of half built and built properties sitting empty, there are rules and regs regarding access roads. there are stringent rules about re-forming/doing up properties, what you can and cant do, the trauma of finding out - and all that depends on the rules of the area in which you live. Before transferring any money, tell me you've looked into all of this - Independently from your estate agent??? 

There, I feel better now I've said all of that. Please dont take offense, its just its not easy to buy a house here without any knowledge of how it works. Anyway, apart from that, I'm really envious of you lol!!!! and hope this all goes according to plan 

Jo xxx


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## helcatamy (Jun 11, 2011)

Hiya yes we are aware of all of that,we have looked into all of it, I have family over there who have bought a couple of properties so have been lucky in that they have the experience too. Our property is not illegal, it is an old cortijo and all the docs are in order thankfully, there are no plans for the surrounding area so we are good for that,there is no issue with that part of it thankfully unlike a couple we liked the look of .... it is difficult and nerve wracking doing this but we are trying to do it 'right' and following the so-called rules to ensure it is all good in the end!


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## jp1 (Jun 11, 2011)

Stravinsky said:


> Not sure why you are saying that .... she just needs to ensure that her family are the only people on the mandate. She already said she is paying the solicitor, not the estate agent.



Well, in her original post to which I applied, there was very little info supplied, so I based my comment on the opening post.

I don't expect Helcatamy to be scammed, just highlighting the fact that if there is such a way to be scammed that's it:- transferring money to "some" account".

Anyway, being someone who is rather cynical and doesn't just accept things because that is the way things are done, my main point was:-

"Why pay any deposit"

Just go over there on the day of signing and pay the full amount directly to the vendor.

Sellers (Private and Developers) are desperate for buyers, no seller is going to refuse a sale because the buyer won't pay a deposit, if they do you can pick another property from the 2 million odd ones for sale at the moment. And the seller will probaly have to wait a few more years until another lone buyer drifts through!!


Helcatamy,

Good look with the sale, I have bought 2 properties and sold 1 in Spain over the last 8 years, all without any problems. If you do you homework, it's a very simple process and pretty safe. Just avoid large upfront deposits and fees!!!!


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

helcatamy said:


> Hiya yes we are aware of all of that,we have looked into all of it, I have family over there who have bought a couple of properties so have been lucky in that they have the experience too. Our property is not illegal, it is an old cortijo and all the docs are in order thankfully, there are no plans for the surrounding area so we are good for that,there is no issue with that part of it thankfully unlike a couple we liked the look of .... it is difficult and nerve wracking doing this but we are trying to do it 'right' and following the so-called rules to ensure it is all good in the end!


Phew :clap2:!!! So you know more than most then. Sorry to be an alarmist, but its been seen many times before! Make sure you let us know how it all goes!!!

Jo xxx


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## helcatamy (Jun 11, 2011)

thanks guys for all of your posts - i have been asked to pay a deposit in order to secure the housing contract without which the bank will not lend us the ammount in order to purchase. we were originally going to borrow in uk and do exactly what you stated,go andpay in one go however it was such a nightmare getting the loan in the uk we went with bank caja sur in spain and they are saying that until the contract is in they willnot lend the money, which I guess makes sense as it is a loan rather than a mortgage and essentially we could just spend the loan on anything otherwise therefore they would have nothing to claim backif we defaulted........i may well ask if we can pay a smaller deposit though as like you say times are desperate and it is unlikely they will say we cannot buy it! it is getting to the stage where my nerves are on edge and i can think of little else after spending somany years dreaming and looking forthe perfect place and having had several places turn out to be dodgy or too high risk in one way or the other...! so once i have the bank details in full, as long as it is only in our names and that is ok then it should be safe to transfer funds into it shouldn't it? theonly other thing i can think of doing is waiting until we go to spain next week and then going into another bank to open another account then transfering the funds in- problem is we have only 2 days to do all this. Howquickly do spanish bank accounts take to open and does anyone know one in Baza which may have english speaking people working there?!


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## TheHendersons (Feb 22, 2011)

Gonna answer really quickly.. Sorry if this sounds abrupt..

1. YES you CAN open a bank account without an NIE. I did with UniCaja you just sign a document allowing a police check (€15pp) to make sure you aren't illegal. Ours was opened instantly.

2. Hifx usually 3-4 days transfer time (I move money on a Monday usually through by weds) always secure and they phone you mud transaction to authorise it. 

3. You cannot open a Spanish bank account in Britain with Santander. British Santander is just a subsidiary of the larger bank and they apparently don't have the capacity to do this. So they told me. 


GOOD LUCK!!


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

TheHendersons said:


> 3. You cannot open a Spanish bank account in Britain with Santander. British Santander is just a subsidiary of the larger bank and they apparently don't have the capacity to do this. So they told me.
> 
> 
> GOOD LUCK!!


Now I have a friend who HAS opened a spanish bank account in Santander in Worthing! I've actually messaged him and he said yes they did but no they werent keen!

Jo xxx


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## Caz.I (Mar 21, 2009)

helcatamy said:


> thanks guys for all of your posts - i have been asked to pay a deposit in order to secure the housing contract without which the bank will not lend us the amount in order to purchase. we were originally going to borrow in uk and do exactly what you stated,go andpay in one go however it was such a nightmare getting the loan in the uk we went with bank caja sur in spain and they are saying that until the contract is in they willnot lend the money, which I guess makes sense as it is a loan rather than a mortgage and essentially we could just spend the loan on anything otherwise therefore they would have nothing to claim backif we defaulted........i may well ask if we can pay a smaller deposit though as like you say times are desperate and it is unlikely they will say we cannot buy it! it is getting to the stage where my nerves are on edge and i can think of little else after spending somany years dreaming and looking forthe perfect place and having had several places turn out to be dodgy or too high risk in one way or the other...! so once i have the bank details in full, as long as it is only in our names and that is ok then it should be safe to transfer funds into it shouldn't it? theonly other thing i can think of doing is waiting until we go to spain next week and then going into another bank to open another account then transfering the funds in- problem is we have only 2 days to do all this. Howquickly do spanish bank accounts take to open and does anyone know one in Baza which may have english speaking people working there?!


Depending on the house price, it is normal practice to pay a deposit on a house purchase. I definitely had to do that when I bought in the UK, and again when I bought here (think i put down about 1 per cent of the price here and then had to sign the initial contract confirming my commitment to buy it). 

What can be tricky is transferring funds. But as someone has said, they can take a few days to do this. I had to do this when I sold my flat in the UK and wanted to transfer the funds into an account here. 

In my case, I got a currency Exchange company to do the transfer. What was difficult was finding an account here that didnt charge the earth for making a large deposit. My own Spanish bank (I already lived here) did charge a lot, so I decided to open a new account at a different bank. The currency Exchange company helped me find one that didnt charge the Earth but when I went to open the account at my local branch as arranged, the manager refused to do it because I didnt have an employment contract (even though I was depositing 80,000 pounds) as she said they’d had problems with British clients before!. At this point it was very stressful as I was due to fly to the UK the same day to authorise my UK bank to release the funds and it ended up that I had only 20 minutes to find a different bank to open an account before banks closed at 2pm! But I did it!. Walked round the corner and chose a bank at random! And they opened an account for me with just my passport! (The NIE is necessary if you are buying a property in Spain, so that is why you have to get one before buying.) So you can open one in 20 minutes! (if you really want to get stressed out!)

If you have Internet banking (and can access the internet in Spain) you should be able to do the transfer while in Spain anyway (without using a currency exchange company). But if you do use one, you could ask the currency exchange company to find an English speaking bank in Baja for you and then ring the bank up to introduce yourself (and to check they do speak English!) to tell them what you are doing and get the name of the person you deal with. Or Google banks in Baja and ring up. Then you can go in and open the account and instruct HIFX to do the transfer, or do it yourself via Internet. I wouldnt trust an estate agent (even though I have a close relative who is one lol!) or a lawyer either as I have heard of some agents spending the clients' deposits! before exchange of contracts! For peace of mind, I'd say do it yourself. There are online banks where I think you can open an account online but personally I would be more nervous about doing that than doing it in person.
I think I used a company called Moneycorp to do the transfer and they also say to allow 4 working days to do it. But am sure the agents can wait 2 more days for the money! They are not going to turn you away in this economic climate, are they?


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

jojo said:


> Now I have a friend who HAS opened a spanish bank account in Santander in Worthing! I've actually messaged him and he said yes they did but no they werent keen!
> 
> Jo xxx


Ahh, strange. Well I have a Santander account in the UK (they know I am in Spain), but I couldnt do it this way either. Wierdly though, I am not a signatory on the account because of this, but they will make me a signatory if I bother to take all my ID for the Spanish address to the branch in the UK.

I haven't bothered because I just use the online banking system for which I have the passwords.

On the subject of deposits, I cant imagine anyone going through with a sale without getting a small deposit from the buyer ... if nothing else it shows you are committed to the sale. Every house I have bought in the UK and Spain, it has been a requirement to proceed


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Pesky Wesky said:


> I get "proper " translations of everything . It's too important a deal to sign a document you don't understand. It'll cost you, but...


Just in case anyone here who "knows" me was wondering...
The above sentence was supposed to read
I_*'d*_ get translations, not I get.

I do actually trust OH to give me the low down on any legal document I have to sign, besides reading it myself!

Interesting what a difference a typo can make, huh?


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Just in case anyone here who "knows" me was wondering...
> The above sentence was supposed to read
> I_*'d*_ get translations, not I get.
> 
> ...


I have to say I did wonder why your Spanish OH would need things translated.....:juggle:


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## casa99 (Oct 19, 2010)

helcatamy said:


> thanks guys for all of your posts - i have been asked to pay a deposit in order to secure the housing contract without which the bank will not lend us the ammount in order to purchase. we were originally going to borrow in uk and do exactly what you stated,go andpay in one go however it was such a nightmare getting the loan in the uk we went with bank caja sur in spain and they are saying that until the contract is in they willnot lend the money, which I guess makes sense as it is a loan rather than a mortgage and essentially we could just spend the loan on anything otherwise therefore they would have nothing to claim backif we defaulted........i may well ask if we can pay a smaller deposit though as like you say times are desperate and it is unlikely they will say we cannot buy it! it is getting to the stage where my nerves are on edge and i can think of little else after spending somany years dreaming and looking forthe perfect place and having had several places turn out to be dodgy or too high risk in one way or the other...! so once i have the bank details in full, as long as it is only in our names and that is ok then it should be safe to transfer funds into it shouldn't it? theonly other thing i can think of doing is waiting until we go to spain next week and then going into another bank to open another account then transfering the funds in- problem is we have only 2 days to do all this. Howquickly do spanish bank accounts take to open and does anyone know one in Baza which may have english speaking people working there?!


Hi there if you want a bank in Baza we use Banco de Andalucia in the town its near the cinema and the manager does speak pretty good english, its a nice little bank and you can do internet banking in english also. Hope this is helpful to you and good luck in your purchase:clap2::clap2:


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## donz (May 5, 2010)

as far as bank recommendations go, Solbank have been my favourite although I don't know if there is one there. They are totally bilingual, you can do internet banking in various languages too.

Your abogado can open a bank acount for you if you have given him POA


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

donz said:


> Your abogado can open a bank acount for you if you have given him POA


There was a post on a forum some time ago about someone who gave a power of attorney to their Abogado. It seemed that all went well. The house was bought, the documentation lodged.

It was only many years later that they found out that the property was registered in the name of the abogado, who had since died. 

Only give a POA if it is really really necessary, otherwise dont .... because you are giving a relative stranger power over your decisions here


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## Jaxx (Apr 21, 2010)

*Care!*



helcatamy said:


> Hi all, we are in the process of buying a house near Baza, we fly out next week to get our numbers and pay the deposit etc, what i need is a bit of advise please. Our estate agent arranged our loan through bank caja sur and opened a bank account for us to transfer the 300 for the valuation, we have to also get the deposit money (3000) over there in time for next week so I am thinking of transfering it into this same spanish bank account the they opened for us but is this safe do you think? I mean so far everything has been by the book, we have the nota simple,looks good, we have the contract being drawn up, the estate agent seems genuine and has a good website, we saw several of their properties (among many!) and our estate agent has been very helpful so I have no actual reason to suspect anything dodgy, it is merely that this is a lot of money to transfer to a bankaccount someone else opened for us.... we do have to then go to the bank and transfer it to the lawyer to hold.....opinions would be appreciated! Thanks!!! Helen


Hi there,*Use an independent lawyer,* not one associated with the seller or with the estate agency. We used one initially recommended by which magazine that friends also used, he was spot on. Never pay any money(under the table) so to speak, black money in the long run it will not be worth it!, and make sure everything is all above board. The estate agents took our friends to open a bank account but our friends did everything to do with opening the bank account themselves. We came here to live in January and its the best thing we have ever done but care is required with all things legal its different to the UK. All the best in your adventure! xx:clap2:


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## piglet2spain (May 5, 2011)

You dont have to come out to get your NIA numbers we went to the Spanish Embassy in Manchester. It took 10 minutes to fill in the forms. They sent everything off. They deducted the money from our bank account in Spain and the papers were sent to us from Spain through the post.
Please be very careful. We have just purchased and was advised by our solicitor not to pay any deposit. We didnt and everything has worked out fine. A deposit is not necessary.
I would not put any more money into the bank account your agent has access to and don't give him power of attourney no matter what they might say about you being over here and them sorting things out for you.


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## Beachcomber (May 10, 2009)

You should only give power of attorney to a Spanish lawyer as a very last resort if there is absolutely no possibility of finding another option. Even then, make sure you return to the notary when everything is finalised and revoke it.

If you are a couple and one of you is able to come to Spain to sign the contract/escritura etc. give the power of attorney to him/her. Whilst you are at it make it a wide ranging, mutually reciprocal power of attorney as it may well be very useful in the future. (Assuming you have absolute trust in each other, of course.)

Compile a list of questions to ask the lawyer about the legality of the property, registration, future building plans for the area, valid utility contracts paid up to date, rights of way and access etc. and get the answers and assurances in writing.

Have everything translated by an independent translator including nota simple, contract, escritura and any other documentation which you do not understand. Take the translator to the notary with you and insist that the escritura is fully translated to you and do not accept the assurance from a lawyer that 'everything is fine, please sign here.' 

In fact, if you can find a top class translator who knows his/her way around the property conveyancing procedures and can guide you through the process you can dispense with the services of a lawyer altogether.


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