# UK Spain health question



## Ibizatog (Feb 6, 2017)

First of all Hi to everyone

Looking for any help or info on this.... We live in Spain (Ibiza) and my wife works via the internet for a UK company, Not long after we arrived she visited the doctors and found that she needs blood pressure tablets, no problem so far as her health card covers her but she has been informed that she will need a residents health card we both have residency and the small green cards but the locals also have a health card (photo type) we have asked about this and are going round in circles as asking at the many offices in Ibiza town know one can say what form or proof she needs from the UK to confirm that she is paying UK national insurance, Apparently if she has proof of this she will be able to get the right card
She has shown payslips and has shown a letter from her boss, also she has some printout from the UK government but none of this is the right information 

So lives full time Spain works via internet and employed UK pays NI has a UK health card but needs a permanent Spanish health card 

Hope someone can throw some light on this as Spain and the UK don't know what info?

Many thanks


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Ibizatog said:


> First of all Hi to everyone
> 
> Looking for any help or info on this.... We live in Spain (Ibiza) and my wife works via the internet for a UK company, Not long after we arrived she visited the doctors and found that she needs blood pressure tablets, no problem so far as her health card covers her but she has been informed that she will need a residents health card we both have residency and the small green cards but the locals also have a health card (photo type) we have asked about this and are going round in circles as asking at the many offices in Ibiza town know one can say what form or proof she needs from the UK to confirm that she is paying UK national insurance, Apparently if she has proof of this she will be able to get the right card
> She has shown payslips and has shown a letter from her boss, also she has some printout from the UK government but none of this is the right information
> ...


:welcome:

What they are asking for is an S1 form from the DWP in Newcastle. These are usually only issued by the UK to those in reciept of a state pension ( & their dependants) & dependants of someone living & working in the UK.

I haven't heard of one being issued to someone living in Spain & working for a UK company.

There are other arrangements for those seconded to Spain temporarily, by a UK company, but that doesn't seem to apply to your wife. 

She should phone the Overseas Healthcare team of the DWP in Newcastle, to find out if they can help her.

The only other way for her to get a health card is to pay NI/ social security here in Spain.


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## Ibizatog (Feb 6, 2017)

Many thanks for the info this gives us something else to look into, As she is paying NI in the UK I am not sure if her company can pay the NI in Spain or if it has to be separate ... in that case she would be paying two lots of NI?
She doesn't earn enough to pay tax in the UK but we were told that if she pays tax in Spain instead it would be as self employed which if I remember right is 200 euros a month minimum?
Most info is easy as it is for working and living in Spain not geared around working UK living Spain

Many thanks again


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## 95995 (May 16, 2010)

xabiachica said:


> :welcome:
> 
> What they are asking for is an S1 form from the DWP in Newcastle. These are usually only issued by the UK to those in reciept of a state pension ( & their dependants) & dependants of someone living & working in the UK.
> 
> ...


We have some expats in France working for UK companies who have an S1. I don't believe it applies to every UK company. The OP should check with the DWP who are best placed to advise. But yes, it is the S1 that is required.


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## CapnBilly (Jun 7, 2011)

If you spend the majority of your time working in Spain, albeit for a U.K. company, then your wife should be paying social security in Spain, and her company should also be paying their contribution in Spain, and not the U.K. If you ring the DWP, this is what they will tell you. This is part of the Social Coordination. Policy of the EU. The only time you can continue to pay National Insurance in the UK if you are posted for a temporary period of upto 2 years.

An alternative is to register as autonomous and pay the self employed contributions

She should also be declaring her income for taxation in Spain.


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## 95995 (May 16, 2010)

CapnBilly said:


> If you spend the majority of your time working in Spain, albeit for a U.K. company, then your wife should be paying social security in Spain, and her company should also be paying their contribution in Spain, and not the U.K. If you ring the DWP, this is what they will tell you. This is part of the Social Coordination. Policy of the EU. The only time you can continue to pay National Insurance in the UK if you are posted for a temporary period of upto 2 years.
> 
> An alternative is to register as autonomous and pay the self employed contributions
> 
> She should also be declaring her income for taxation in Spain.


Thanks for the explanation - that's how it is in France, but I wasn't sure about Spain. To clarify, in France even if you work via the internet, but you do that from France, then it has to be through a French branch of the company (who will pay the social security contributions), or you have to set yourself up as a business of some kind (and pay the social security contributions that way), or work through a 'portage salarial' (who will pay the social security contributions). I don't know the term for portage salarial in either English or Spanish, but I suspect there would be something similar operating in Spain.


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## Ibizatog (Feb 6, 2017)

*Many Thanks*

Many Thanks for the response and all the information, it has been helpful and we have more to look into. 
I hope I can be of help to people who need information, learning as we go


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## ccm47 (Oct 15, 2013)

As somebody whose "specialist subject" used to be National Insurance:

1, Tax and NI are due in the country in which they are earned. Exemption from this rule is where the worker is expected to return to the original country within 2 years.
2, Internet workers are either "home workers" or "self-employed" in the UK. Home workers are expected to be supported by their employer not only with sickness and holiday pay, but supply of equipment e.g. IT, phone line, appropriate desk and chair, management of time and staff development opportunities. They get paid no matter what they produce. The self -employed should get none of the above but be paid by results for which they submit an invoice. Sometimes the lines get blurred and HMRC can step in and decide how to categorise the worker. There are about 25 aspects which can be examined in total. 

3. A portage salariale is an umbrella company which takes a fee for being an intermediary, usually acceptable to the worker's company because they no longer pay employer's National Insurance through PAYE. I do not know if they exist in Spain.

4, In this case the worker has no intention of returning to the UK so Social Security payments need to be made in Spain and arrangements need to be sorted ASAP because the end of the financial year is rapidly approaching and the company could make arrangements to refund/reclaim the NI deducted. An in year refund is much simpler than the alternatives. This can then be used to pay the Spanish authorities for self employment liabilities or the portage company if they are treated as an employee.

5, At the moment there is a risk that the worker's company has established a "place of trading" in Spain i.e. at the worker's home and is therefore liable to compliance with Spanish legislation since the date the worker started in Spain. The company accountant needs to be involved so that they can seek guidance from HMRC. Failure on their part to do so could involve them in fines being imposed as ignorance is no excuse. 

I have tried to be brief but these cases are rarely straightforward. HMRC is the best source of advice and free.


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

ccm47 said:


> 1, Tax and NI are due in the country in which they are earned. Exemption from this rule is where the worker is expected to return to the original country within 2 years.





This would seem to imply that if I live in Spain but work in UK, then any money is 'earned' in UK - so that's where tax and NI should be paid.

I always thought that the key issue was where the worker was resident or had his centre of economic interest.


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## ccm47 (Oct 15, 2013)

snipkoh, an internet worker working in Spain for any company of any nationality as is the case here is liable to pay Spanish taxes and the equivalent of NI as this is the country in which the money is earned.

Your scenario of living in Spain and working in the UK let us say as a locum doctor would fall into the category of expecting to return home within 2 years, which was mentioned in a previous answer to this post. If they did not expect to return in that time then it would be difficult to claim that they lived in Spain, as has so often been discussed on the forum. The same doctor could also work in lots of countries during a year, hence the financial centre of interest rules and also the legitimate use of umbrella companies to try to simplify life and also to avoid double taxation, social security contributions etc. Some professions even have different rules applied to them e.g. actors and musicians.
Those with a jet set lifestyle do find life complicated and need professional advisers.Only this week the press has reported on David Beckham' and his reluctance to attend a UNICEF event in London on a particular date because to do so would have jeopardised his compliance with the residency rules. Instead he waited until a new financial year had started and he could stay over without breaking any rules. 

For this OP and the scenario given I stated the basics, particularly as no tax is involved. Even so it will not be straightforward as advice from HMRC needs to be sought by the accountant of the company currently paying the worker.


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

ccm47 said:


> Your scenario of living in Spain and working in the UK let us say as a locum doctor would fall into the category of expecting to return home within 2 years, which was mentioned in a previous answer to this post.


I'm not sure I agree (or perhaps understand).

The vast majority of people in my scenario do NOT expect to 'return home in 2 years'. For example, I know many who are carers and spend time working in UK before returning home in Spain every 3 weeks or so. 

They clearly earn money in UK yet are resident in Spain.

Where should they pay tax and NI?


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## ccm47 (Oct 15, 2013)

Snikpoh, 

Carers are one of the groups of workers where the Revenue needs to ask, and have answered, lots of questions e.g. how does the person obtain their work, how do they get paid (daily, weekly, at the end of the caring period), how much autonomy does the carer have and importantly who would be sued in the event of negligence or an accident. Depending on the answers, and each carer could theoretically answer the questions differently then an answer can be given.

Let us quickly take a couple of scenarios;

Man A, a pensioner himself, goes to work as a live in carer at a home run by Fred Smith. He works a planned shift paid by the hour worked and if he is negligent the nursing home gets sued. He is an employee, albeit temporarily. The wage clerk must ask for Man A's NINO, proof of exemption from NI and tax coding. He doesn't give it so wages clerk has to deduct tax and NI. Failure to do so risks Fred Smith getting a hefty fine. If Man A comes up with the the proofs then he gets a refund from Fred before the year end. Otherwise the need for a refund could get overlooked. 
Woman B comes to Fred on the same conditions and says I live abroad, wages clerk will need proofs and Revenue guidance. Otherwise they deduct tax and NI. Hence double taxation to be sorted out.

Man C advertises in Saga magazine etc and is contacted by carer's family. He negotiates a fee for the job which reflects his costs such as liability insurance. In the event of an accident he gets sued. He is self-employed and if he was resident in the UK would pay tax, Class 2 and 4 NI.
But with no home in the UK, as a fee earner he can take his money to his country of residence and pay his dues there. There is no guarantee of work for him in the UK again but should he find himself approaching the 183 night scenario then he would be well advised not to be labelled "resident" if he doesn't want to be.
There are a whole host of other scenarios but the current official guidance is here:
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/new-employee-coming-to-work-from-abroad#work-done-in-and-outside-the-uk

Hope that is of some help.


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