# moving to parma



## Deanna

Hi, 
My name is Deanna and I live in Cape Cod right now, my husband and I are going to be moving to Parma with our 2 children (and one on the way)-- We are planning on moving after the baby is born. He is from Naples and can't wait to get back to Italy, but I am terrified. I have never been to the north of Italy-- Every time we go, which is usually once a year for a couple weeks, we go to Naples. I was just wondering if there was anyone out there living in or near Parma that has any advice. Also, if you know of any baby groups that exist. I speak fluent Italian, so any resources that anyone knows of in either Italian or English would be helpful. 

Thanks a lot!! Hope to hear from someone.


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## melisaliana

Hi Deanna!

I live in Sweden right now, but we are moving to Parma in June and we a few things in common. My children are aged 5 and 7 and my husband is also Italian, though from the North, and he has never actually lived in Italy! So while I don't have any answers for you, I'd love to have some company while I figure out everything from the bottom up.

We have been living in Sweden for six years, but I grew up in Toledo, Ohio, went to college on the east coast (I love Cape Cod) and lived for 8 years in Chicago. I just found out about a school called Scuola Per L'Europa which looks really interesting. There are about 400 students from the agees of 3 - 13 and there is a secondary school as well with another 100 students. The school is new -- from 2004, I think, and has English, Italian and French sections. I am really hoping we can go visit in April and get more information. 

I speak some Italian, but very basic (first on my list of to-do's when we get it Italy). I think your fluency will take you far. I called the school today and their English was even worse than my Italian.

Do you know when you are moving to Parma?

Keep in touch!

Melisa

PS Don't be terrified. Italians are soooo nice, even if they are "furbo" as another poster said.


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## Deanna

*Hi Melisa*



melisaliana said:


> Hi Deanna!
> 
> I live in Sweden right now, but we are moving to Parma in June and we a few things in common. My children are aged 5 and 7 and my husband is also Italian, though from the North, and he has never actually lived in Italy! So while I don't have any answers for you, I'd love to have some company while I figure out everything from the bottom up.
> 
> We have been living in Sweden for six years, but I grew up in Toledo, Ohio, went to college on the east coast (I love Cape Cod) and lived for 8 years in Chicago. I just found out about a school called Scuola Per L'Europa which looks really interesting. There are about 400 students from the agees of 3 - 13 and there is a secondary school as well with another 100 students. The school is new -- from 2004, I think, and has English, Italian and French sections. I am really hoping we can go visit in April and get more information.
> 
> I speak some Italian, but very basic (first on my list of to-do's when we get it Italy). I think your fluency will take you far. I called the school today and their English was even worse than my Italian.
> 
> Do you know when you are moving to Parma?
> 
> Keep in touch!
> 
> Melisa
> 
> PS Don't be terrified. Italians are soooo nice, even if they are "furbo" as another poster said.


Hi Melisa,

Thanks for respoding to my post! My husband and I were actually in Parma in mid March, looking at schools and houses. We found an o.k. school in Rivergaro, but the school you found seems very interesting. During our trip, we decided to go to Florence for sight seeing and I actually ended up having a lot of contractions and was in the hospital there for 4 days!!!Thank goodness we made it home (against the advice of doctors there)-- luckily my ob. was ok with the idea of flying. Now I am home on bed rest because my cervix is shortened. I will be 33 weeks on wed. Anyway, at this point I'm not sure what is going on . The company is now not sure if they are opening the office there or not. I am really hoping it is not happening... we should hopefully know more this summer. I love to go to Italy for vacation, but living there is just so different from here. My main concern is activities for the kids and the schools. Why are you living in Sweden? Do you like it? Luckily, you seem like you are very flexible, so it should be an easier transition. I wish I were a little more flexible!! I would love to keep in touch!
Thanks!
Deanna


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## melisaliana

*more coincidences*

It's funny how the world flings people together. When I was 24 weeks pregnant with my first child, I discovered I had incompetent cervix. My cervix opened up and they said I might lose the baby. They did emergency cerclage to close the cervix, and I was put on bed rest immediately. I made it another six weeks, and he was born at 30 weeks. He was very very tiny! But he was healthy, and now, aged 7, he is a superstar. At 33 weeks you are already in great shape even if you deliver tomorrow! 

We moved to Sweden after I had early term cerclage for my second pregnancy (which was WAY smoother, and she was born at a healthy 36 weeks). We came here for my husband's work. Sweden is an excellent place to be a mom with small children, and there are a lot of amazing things that make the quality of life very high: extremely clean and green, egalitarianism to a fault, love of gardening and the outdoors, delicious salmon, no traffic, quiet, calm, order -- there was a study that found that Sweden is the single most honest country in the world. My husband dropped the equivalent of a 50-dollar-bill on the bus and he got it back from the Lost & Found. Can you believe it??

All that said, culturally Sweden is not really my cup of tea. I think I will be much happier in Italy where people are not afraid to say hello to you on the street, and everyone loves to talk, and the food...oh, the food!

As for the kids in Italy, the school I found has a parents association which has a web site where they list at least half a dozen activities for the kids -- judo, art classes, basketball, gymnastics, photography, music, hockey, etc. I am very optimistic.

We are now official -- we will arrive in Parma on June 6, and I am really looking forward to it. 

I can well imagine how stressful it is for you now, but it will get better! Good luck with everything, and do let me know if you move to Parma.

melisa



Deanna said:


> Hi Melisa,
> 
> Thanks for respoding to my post! My husband and I were actually in Parma in mid March, looking at schools and houses. We found an o.k. school in Rivergaro, but the school you found seems very interesting. During our trip, we decided to go to Florence for sight seeing and I actually ended up having a lot of contractions and was in the hospital there for 4 days!!!Thank goodness we made it home (against the advice of doctors there)-- luckily my ob. was ok with the idea of flying. Now I am home on bed rest because my cervix is shortened. I will be 33 weeks on wed. Anyway, at this point I'm not sure what is going on . The company is now not sure if they are opening the office there or not. I am really hoping it is not happening... we should hopefully know more this summer. I love to go to Italy for vacation, but living there is just so different from here. My main concern is activities for the kids and the schools. Why are you living in Sweden? Do you like it? Luckily, you seem like you are very flexible, so it should be an easier transition. I wish I were a little more flexible!! I would love to keep in touch!
> Thanks!
> Deanna


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## K4ty

*Parma*

Hi Melisa and Deanna,

We've been living in Parma for just over a year now and have two boys (5 and 2) the eldest of whom is at the school you mentioned. 

If you need any information before you come over, just mail!

Parma's a great place to be, really nice town, you'll find there is quite a good expat community here and with the parents at the school, and you can get most places by bike! The only downside is the mossies in the summer...

Katy


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## Deanna

melisaliana said:


> It's funny how the world flings people together. When I was 24 weeks pregnant with my first child, I discovered I had incompetent cervix. My cervix opened up and they said I might lose the baby. They did emergency cerclage to close the cervix, and I was put on bed rest immediately. I made it another six weeks, and he was born at 30 weeks. He was very very tiny! But he was healthy, and now, aged 7, he is a superstar. At 33 weeks you are already in great shape even if you deliver tomorrow!
> 
> We moved to Sweden after I had early term cerclage for my second pregnancy (which was WAY smoother, and she was born at a healthy 36 weeks). We came here for my husband's work. Sweden is an excellent place to be a mom with small children, and there are a lot of amazing things that make the quality of life very high: extremely clean and green, egalitarianism to a fault, love of gardening and the outdoors, delicious salmon, no traffic, quiet, calm, order -- there was a study that found that Sweden is the single most honest country in the world. My husband dropped the equivalent of a 50-dollar-bill on the bus and he got it back from the Lost & Found. Can you believe it??
> 
> All that said, culturally Sweden is not really my cup of tea. I think I will be much happier in Italy where people are not afraid to say hello to you on the street, and everyone loves to talk, and the food...oh, the food!
> 
> As for the kids in Italy, the school I found has a parents association which has a web site where they list at least half a dozen activities for the kids -- judo, art classes, basketball, gymnastics, photography, music, hockey, etc. I am very optimistic.
> 
> We are now official -- we will arrive in Parma on June 6, and I am really looking forward to it.
> 
> I can well imagine how stressful it is for you now, but it will get better! Good luck with everything, and do let me know if you move to Parma.
> 
> melisa


Hi Melisa,

Your story was very reassuring to me- I'm glad that everything turned out good for you. There is nothing scarier than going into labor so early. I am doing pretty well, my mother in law is helping with my other 2 kids and with the house, so I have been pretty lucky. I go to the doctor again on the 27th. What is the web site of that school? That is awesome that they have so many activities for the kids. Are you going to Parma before June to look for housing or will you look for it when you get there? I will definitely stay in touch and let you know if we are coming or not. Let me know if you need any help with Italian.

Talk to you soon,

Deanna


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## Deanna

K4ty said:


> Hi Melisa and Deanna,
> 
> We've been living in Parma for just over a year now and have two boys (5 and 2) the eldest of whom is at the school you mentioned.
> 
> If you need any information before you come over, just mail!
> 
> Parma's a great place to be, really nice town, you'll find there is quite a good expat community here and with the parents at the school, and you can get most places by bike! The only downside is the mossies in the summer...
> 
> Katy


Hi Katy,

Did you mean La Scuola per L Europa? Things are pretty much up in the air for us right now, but I will let you know if we are moving! Thanks for your response.

Deanna


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## melisaliana

*loads of questions about the school*

Hi Katy!

Thanks so much for getting in touch. I would love some more information about the school! We are going in May for a visit to look at housing options, visit the school, etc., but I wonder if you could tell me more. I know I can get answers to most of these questions when we go for our visit, but if you happen to have the time, I would love any perspective you can offer on some of the following;



which neighborhoods school families tend to live in -- are there viable options within walking distance of the school?

How much instruction is in the native language (English in our case) and how much is in Italian?

Are there provisions for kids new to Italian (second language intensive training, for example)

What is the academic caliber of the school? (Teacher quality? Level of sophistication of school work? Homework?)

What are school hours and are they different based on age? (my kids will be 6 and 8 for the next school year)

Should we be worried that we won't get in for next year (long queues?) or is it reasonable to get in?

How big are the classes/what is teacher/student ratio more or less

How are the facilities (good/bad/average)

Do the kids "mix" or stick to their native language groups? 

How much turnover is there more or less (kids coming and going -- my son lost his best friend this year to a move and I'm sure this gets harder the older they get)

Do most moms work or stay at home?

As you can see I have loads of questions so obviously don't feel obliged to answer them all. There are just so many unknowns, and the prospect of someone who is there in the school with children close to the age of mine is very encouraging!

Thanks in advance for any assistance you can provide!

Best,
Melisa


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## K4ty

Hi Melisa,

No problem! Someone helped us via one of these sites before we arrived so glad to pass on the favour! so answers to your questions:

which neighborhoods school families tend to live in -- are there viable options within walking distance of the school?

If you live within Parma, most places are within walking or cycling distance! It's not a big town. The most popular places for families tend to be to the east side (around Emilia Est, Piazza Lubiana), around the park Cittadella or in the centre. Depends what you want really. The centre's obviously not so green, but less of a distance to the school. We're around Lubiana and love it - it's a 10-15 minute cycle to the school, a very green area with a nice park.


How much instruction is in the native language (English in our case) and how much is in Italian?

There are three language sections - English, French and Italian. Children should be enrolled for their mother-tongue section, in your case English. At age 6 children start their first foreign language (which must be one of English, French or German). 


Are there provisions for kids new to Italian (second language intensive training, for example)

This year the school introduced an extra-curricular activity for Italian language. But our son's also picked it up from outside activities, the playground etc. 


What is the academic caliber of the school? (Teacher quality? Level of sophistication of school work? Homework?)

Hmmm... The school has only been set up for 5 years and is still experiencing 'teething problems'. Hopefully things will improve.


What are school hours and are they different based on age? (my kids will be 6 and 8 for the next school year)

The timetable is on the school website and is slightly different for the different years - I'd suggest you take a look. There are also extracurricular activities available though until 4.30pm or 6pm depending on preferences.


Should we be worried that we won't get in for next year (long queues?) or is it reasonable to get in?

At the moment, due to space restrictions (there are plans for a new school but it's not even started yet), you might find it difficult to get a place unless you're coming here for work in an EU or international organisation (ie you're children would be 'Category 1' or 'Category 2'. 


How big are the classes/what is teacher/student ratio more or less

The classes are rather different throughout the various years. for September for the 6 year olds I think the class size will be around 22 or so (to one teacher), but can't say for sure. Higher up the school there are fewer in the classes.


How are the facilities (good/bad/average)

Could be better. The new school should improve things.


Do the kids "mix" or stick to their native language groups? 

There's a mix in the English classes of various nationalities as if there is no mother tongue section, children go into either the English or French sections.


How much turnover is there more or less (kids coming and going -- my son lost his best friend this year to a move and I'm sure this gets harder the older they get)

Same here really. But it's easier when the class size is bigger. it's harder higher up the school when there weren't many in the class to start with.


Do most moms work or stay at home?

It's a bit of a mix.

Good luck with everything! What's bringing you over here then?

Katy


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## lisav

*moving to parma this week*



k4ty said:


> hi melisa and deanna,
> 
> we've been living in parma for just over a year now and have two boys (5 and 2) the eldest of whom is at the school you mentioned.
> 
> If you need any information before you come over, just mail!
> 
> Parma's a great place to be, really nice town, you'll find there is quite a good expat community here and with the parents at the school, and you can get most places by bike! The only downside is the mossies in the summer...
> 
> Katy


hi katy,
we have a 2 yr old daughter and we are moving to parma this week.

Have you got any advice about playgroups/ludoteca etc.. ??????
We'll be living not far from the cittadella area. I have lived in milan and cassino but i don't know much about parma. 

Are there any expat groups or english speaking clubs??? 

Lisav


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## bevram

*Baby Groups*

Hi Lisav

Your post was some time ago and im assuming you are now living happily in Parma. We are due to move in Feb with my 2 year old daughter and i wanted to get any advice on any toddler groups you may have found? Or expat groups?

I hope your move went well!

Bev


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## shelleyjayt

can anyone tell me about the mosquitos. We are moving to Parma from Northern California. I keep hearing about the Tiger Mosquitos that are out spring, summer, fall and morning that feed during the day as well as at night.

My daughter and I are highly allergic to the bite. So much so that I ended up in the hospital last year from a mosquito bite. 

We heard that there are less mosquitos in the city center but the only homes we've seen with screens are on the outskirts of town - more in the country.

Also, if they are basically all year round and all day and night we will not be able to enjoy the outdoors.

I was looking so forward to this and now I am terrified to move.

Help!


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## shelleyjayt

*Mosquito information please*

Can anyone tell me about the mosquitos in Parma? 

We are moving to Parma from Northern California. I keep hearing about the Tiger Mosquitos that are out spring, summer, fall and that feed during the day as well as at night.

My daughter and I are highly allergic to the bite. So much so that I ended up in the hospital last year from a mosquito bite. 

We heard that there are less mosquitos in the city center but the only homes we've seen with screens are on the outskirts of town - more in the country.

Also, if the mosquitos are basically all year round and all day and night we will not be able to enjoy the outdoors.

I was looking so forward to this move and now I am terrified.

Help!


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## dianadc2103

bevram said:


> Hi Lisav
> 
> Your post was some time ago and im assuming you are now living happily in Parma. We are due to move in Feb with my 2 year old daughter and i wanted to get any advice on any toddler groups you may have found? Or expat groups?
> 
> 
> Bev


Hello to everybody!

I'm sorry I'm participating in this forum although I'm not an International Expat. I moved to Parma 6 years ago from Milan. My father is Italian and my mom American (from California, more precisely). I have two lovely boys aged 4 & 1 and I'm trying to teach them English. The problem is they don't get any stimulus apart from me as they don't have, for instance, any English speaking friends to play with. I myself would love to have some new international friend! I think it would be fun to meet once in a while for a language/cultural exchange.
Do you know if there is any english speaking moms club/kids clubs?

Thanks in advance for your help!

Diana


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## dub79

Hi Diana & everyone else,

I live about 30 minutes away from Parma and I'm looking as well for a few international friends. I moved to Parma 2 years ago from Dublin where I was living for almost 4 years (although I'm originally from Germany), my boyfriend is from the area so we decided to make the move.
If you are interested in meeting up once in a while just drop me a line, I'd be pleased to hear from you!


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## dianadc2103

Deanna said:


> Hi,
> My name is Deanna and I live in Cape Cod right now, my husband and I are going to be moving to Parma with our 2 children (and one on the way)-- We are planning on moving after the baby is born. He is from Naples and can't wait to get back to Italy, but I am terrified. I have never been to the north of Italy-- Every time we go, which is usually once a year for a couple weeks, we go to Naples. I was just wondering if there was anyone out there living in or near Parma that has any advice. Also, if you know of any baby groups that exist. I speak fluent Italian, so any resources that anyone knows of in either Italian or English would be helpful.
> 
> Thanks a lot!! Hope to hear from someone.


Hello, 
are you still living in Parma?


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## dianadc2103

dub79 said:


> Hi Diana & everyone else,
> 
> I live about 30 minutes away from Parma and I'm looking as well for a few international friends. I moved to Parma 2 years ago from Dublin where I was living for almost 4 years (although I'm originally from Germany), my boyfriend is from the area so we decided to make the move.
> If you are interested in meeting up once in a while just drop me a line, I'd be pleased to hear from you!


I don't know why but the answer I wrote won't be submitted!
I'm trying now with this short message, just to let you know I've read with great pleasure your message. If it is ok, I'll try answering back later!
Sorry
Diana


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## dianadc2103

Well, I don't' know what happened, maybe there was some "system problem" and I couldn't send my original message. Here it is!

Hello there! I was really glad to read your post, thank you! :clap2:
Where exactly in the Parma area are you leaving? Do you have any children?
It would be great to meet you. How can we arrange it? Hope to hear from you soon! Take care Diana

PS. If any other expat reading this message is interested, please drop me a line!


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## simona2012

dianadc2103 said:


> Hello,
> are you still living in Parma?


Hello 
What a coincidence 
I’m Italian my husband American from Cape Cod We live in Naples Italy during winter and move back to cape cod ma for vacation during the summer. We have 3 girls 9 11 12yo .
You will be fine in Italy especially north. Naples is different ether you love it or hate it but north Italy is very organize as school transportation public service. My sister lives in Milan and another sister in Rome They love it.
Good luck

simona


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## pollon

*Let's start!*



dianadc2103 said:


> Well, I don't' know what happened, maybe there was some "system problem" and I couldn't send my original message. Here it is!
> 
> Hello there! I was really glad to read your post, thank you! :clap2:
> Where exactly in the Parma area are you leaving? Do you have any children?
> It would be great to meet you. How can we arrange it? Hope to hear from you soon! Take care Diana
> 
> PS. If any other expat reading this message is interested, please drop me a line!


hi Diana
I'm interested! I am italian but I've lived in the US. I have a 3 years old daughter, we live downtown Parma. Get in touch! Micaela


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## dianadc2103

pollon said:


> hi Diana
> I'm interested! I am italian but I've lived in the US. I have a 3 years old daughter, we live downtown Parma. Get in touch! Micaela


Hi there!
Glad to get your message! How long have you lived in the US? Where exactly? When did you come back to Italy? Are you originally from Parma? Do you speak English with your daughter? Let's get together! How can we make arrangements? the forum system doesn't allow me to send you my email address (it says I need to have made at least 4 posts - which I thougth I did ???) Waiting to hear from you soon,
Diana


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## pollon

dianadc2103 said:


> Hi there!
> Glad to get your message! How long have you lived in the US? Where exactly? When did you come back to Italy? Are you originally from Parma? Do you speak English with your daughter? Let's get together! How can we make arrangements? the forum system doesn't allow me to send you my email address (it says I need to have made at least 4 posts - which I thougth I did ???) Waiting to hear from you soon,
> Diana


hi Diana
how nice to hear from you!
I was an exchange student in Wisconsin, and went back to the US for summer jobs later on. 
I'm from La Spezia, moved here for college and then settled here.
I speak English with my little one, but only when it's just me and her, so far. 
Where do you live in Parma? We may meet at the Biblioteca Internazionale Ilaria Alpi, have you ever been there?


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## dianadc2103

pollon said:


> hi Diana
> how nice to hear from you!
> I was an exchange student in Wisconsin, and went back to the US for summer jobs later on.
> I'm from La Spezia, moved here for college and then settled here.
> I speak English with my little one, but only when it's just me and her, so far.
> Where do you live in Parma? We may meet at the Biblioteca Internazionale Ilaria Alpi, have you ever been there?


Interesting story! 
I moved to Parma 6 years ago from Milan. My father is Italian and my mom American (from California, more precisely). I have two lovely boys aged 4 1/2 & 18 months and I'm trying to teach them English. The problem is they don't get any stimulus apart from me as they don't have, for instance, any English speaking friends to play with. I myself would love to have some new internationale open-minded friend! For this reason I would like to found an English speaking moms club/kids clubs. This could be a good starting point, although I think it would be best if we could meet a few mother-tongue moms/kids coming from abroad or we would probably end speaking Italian to each other!
I've heard about the International library, always wanted to go but never really made it, so it would be great to meet there! Where is it exactly? What day & time do you suggest? For me any time is ok (consider that I pick up my eldest son from preschool at 4pm) , it would be better to meet next week (I'll be in Milan for a long week-end), any day except on Wednesday. Sounds good?

See you soon then!
Diana


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## pollon

dianadc2103 said:


> Interesting story!
> I moved to Parma 6 years ago from Milan. My father is Italian and my mom American (from California, more precisely). I have two lovely boys aged 4 1/2 & 18 months and I'm trying to teach them English. The problem is they don't get any stimulus apart from me as they don't have, for instance, any English speaking friends to play with. I myself would love to have some new internationale open-minded friend! For this reason I would like to found an English speaking moms club/kids clubs. This could be a good starting point, although I think it would be best if we could meet a few mother-tongue moms/kids coming from abroad or we would probably end speaking Italian to each other!
> I've heard about the International library, always wanted to go but never really made it, so it would be great to meet there! Where is it exactly? What day & time do you suggest? For me any time is ok (consider that I pick up my eldest son from preschool at 4pm) , it would be better to meet next week (I'll be in Milan for a long week-end), any day except on Wednesday. Sounds good?
> 
> See you soon then!
> Diana


Hi Diana, 
let's meet on tuesday, nov 13, at 4.30, at the library (it's at the end of via cavour: [bibliotecaalpi.it/index.php/it/dove-siamo). There's a playroom with children books in foreign languages inside. I might be a little late, depending on the time my daughter wakes up from the afternoon nap. Can you send me a private message so we can exchange our phone numbers? It seems I'm not allowed...


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## dianadc2103

Hi Micaela, it sounds good! 
I've just tried to send you a PM but it says you are not allowed to receive them. I think you need at least 5 posts to be enabled and apparently you only have 3 ... what a nuisance! I suggest you to send me 2 more posts and then try again with a PM!
Hopefully we can make it
D.


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## pollon

dianadc2103 said:


> Hi Micaela, it sounds good!
> I've just tried to send you a PM but it says you are not allowed to receive them. I think you need at least 5 posts to be enabled and apparently you only have 3 ... what a nuisance! I suggest you to send me 2 more posts and then try again with a PM!
> Hopefully we can make it
> D.


what a pain
so this is the first one


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## pollon

dianadc2103 said:


> Hi Micaela, it sounds good!
> I've just tried to send you a PM but it says you are not allowed to receive them. I think you need at least 5 posts to be enabled and apparently you only have 3 ... what a nuisance! I suggest you to send me 2 more posts and then try again with a PM!
> Hopefully we can make it
> D.


and the second....


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## pollon

pollon said:


> and the second....


no private msg.. I'll try with another one and see.


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## PauloPievese

*So, Parma?*

As you might gather from my handle I had hoped to retire in Roma but it just seems unaffordable. After U.S. taxes and U.S. healthcare (I would probably return for anything major) I will probably have around 1500E/month to play around with. Lacking Roma, Parma seems just about ideal; reputedly good food, interesting on its own, and central to many other cities. Checking out immobiliare{dot}it it seems like there are a lot of affordable (<700E/mo) furnished apartments in the central district (getting too old to drive, hope to have no car). So, here's the questions:
1) Is this site a reliable tool?
2) Should a single increasingly elderly American live in the central district?
3) I really really really don't want to have to screw around getting utilities in my name; how do I ask for "utilities included"? Willing to pay extra for the convenience. I just want to be handed a key to a "turn key" livable space.


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## PauloPievese

*Alternatively ...*

Alternatively, if anyone would be interested in a house swap for a season let me know. I live in a ground floor condo (owned apartment) 6 miles (10 km) from the Gulf of Mexico beaches and am the nearest unit to the tennis courts and swimming pool. I have to be over 55 to live here; not sure about renters.


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## BBCWatcher

RetireInRome said:


> (I would probably return for anything major)


Why?


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## PauloPievese

BBCWatcher said:


> Why?


In the US the government will defray about half the cost of my health insurance. It is my understanding that the Italian government would require me to have local health insurance so as not to be a burden on the state. I would imagine something minimal there. I would however be more than happy to dump the responsibility of the maintenance of my aging body on the Italian people were they willing to accept the burden.


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## pudd 2

RetireInRome said:


> In the US the government will defray about half the cost of my health insurance. It is my understanding that the Italian government would require me to have local health insurance so as not to be a burden on the state. I would imagine something minimal there. I would however be more than happy to dump the responsibility of the maintenance of my aging body on the Italian people were they willing to accept the burden.


why indeed we have some of the best hospitals in tghe world here in italy 

even if you go private it costs verry litlle ie two eyes remove caturacts fit lenses 48 eros in a private clinic , with some help from the italiaqn heath service and they dont chrarge for every sqaure of toilet paper as they do in america


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## BBCWatcher

If you're an Elective Resident in Italy you can indeed enroll in the public health system. Last I checked the price ranges from 388 euro to a maximum of 2789 euro per _calendar year_. The price varies based on your income. The is no pro-rated premium, so if you enroll on December 15 for example then you pay full price and get about 16 days of coverage. In other words, it's a really good idea to enroll in early January. 

There are reports that many ASLs don't bother calculating the income-based portion and simply charge the minimum (388 euro) for those who are eligible for voluntary enrollment. If that happens to you, I wouldn't complain. 

It could be a perfectly reasonable approach to enroll in ASL and in U.S. Medicare Part A (hospitalization) which is free if you qualify for Medicare. You might then skip Part B, keeping in mind that if/when you return to the U.S. your Part B premium will be increased to account for the years you were outside the program.

Another thing to think about is "half of what?" If a medical procedure in the U.S. costs $25,000, and it costs $10,000 in Italy, getting 50% reimbursement in the U.S. is still a bad deal versus even paying everything out of pocket in Italy, assuming both countries provide quality service.


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## PauloPievese

Thank you for what I take to be an authoritative response. I mean it must be true, I saw it on the internet. However being a belt and suspenders guy, can you point me to a Italian government site outlining this?


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## PauloPievese

pudd 2 said:


> why indeed we have some of the best hospitals in tghe world here in italy
> 
> even if you go private it costs verry litlle ie two eyes remove caturacts fit lenses 48 eros in a private clinic , with some help from the italiaqn heath service and they dont chrarge for every sqaure of toilet paper as they do in america


Surprise! You get charged for every square of toilet paper in Italy too. Toilet paper is not free anywhere. You, rationally enough, pay for it through your taxes. In the US one either pays for it directly or, bizarrely, through reduced wages called 'employer paid insurance'.


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## PauloPievese

RetireInRome said:


> As you might gather from my handle I had hoped to retire in Roma but it just seems unaffordable. After U.S. taxes and U.S. healthcare (I would probably return for anything major) I will probably have around 1500E/month to play around with. Lacking Roma, Parma seems just about ideal; reputedly good food, interesting on its own, and central to many other cities. Checking out immobiliare{dot}it it seems like there are a lot of affordable (<700E/mo) furnished apartments in the central district (getting too old to drive, hope to have no car). So, here's the questions:
> 1) Is this site a reliable tool?
> 2) Should a single increasingly elderly American live in the central district?
> 3) I really really really don't want to have to screw around getting utilities in my name; how do I ask for "utilities included"? Willing to pay extra for the convenience. I just want to be handed a key to a "turn key" livable space.


In this fascinating discussion on healthcare we kind of drifted off the beam. Can anyone address the questions above? Add to the list, is <700E/month reasonable for a furnished apartment of, say, two rooms?


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## pudd 2

RetireInRome said:


> In this fascinating discussion on healthcare we kind of drifted off the beam. Can anyone address the questions above? Add to the list, is <700E/month reasonable for a furnished apartment of, say, two rooms?


you could rent two good houses for that much money in abruzzo 

with clean air and peace and jump on a bus when you want a rome fix


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## PauloPievese

pudd 2 said:


> you could rent two good houses for that much money in abruzzo
> 
> with clean air and peace and jump on a bus when you want a rome fix


Hard to argue with that. I remember passing by there when cutting across the mountains to get from Assisi to the Gargano. Beautiful country. On the other hand, in addition to its own beauties, Parma is between 100 and 250 km from Bologna, Milano, Firenze, Venezia, and Genoa. Unfortunately you'll note that Roma isn't on that list but you can't have everything.

Can I assume that affording two houses in Abruzzo makes affording a furnished 2 room apartment in Parma reasonable? For your information a friend notes that the rental rates for locals and the rental rates for (perceived) rich Americans can vary substantially.

Is it possible/likely to get an apartment with all utilities included?


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## BBCWatcher

The Italian Interior Ministry published a wonderful guide a few years ago called "Stay in Italy Legally." It has some details on ASL enrollment, too. Worth a read, and you can find it easily using your favorite Internet search engine. Keep in mind it's about 5 years old so a few small things have changed, but for the most part it's current.


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## PauloPievese

Thank you. Some apartment listings on immobiliare{dot}it, in addition to the advertised rent, include an item "Spese condominiali" which can range from 25E to 250E. Google translates this as "monthly charges". Can someone please elucidate what is meant?


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## pudd 2

RetireInRome said:


> Thank you. Some apartment listings on immobiliare{dot}it, in addition to the advertised rent, include an item "Spese condominiali" which can range from 25E to 250E. Google translates this as "monthly charges". Can someone please elucidate what is meant?


its charges for up keep of grounds buildings and even paying for gate keepers or janiters , and general maitenance 

spese is like your monthly house keeping costs , and is uesed in tghis term when people tell you there living costs


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## PauloPievese

Thank you. In the U.S., having rented an apartment, it is necessary for you to have utilities such as electricity provided in your name, i.e. billed to you. I gather from the fact that I got no response to my "utilities included" question that this is not common in Italy. What is the procedure for having accounts established for utilities in Italy? How long does it take?


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