# american with brit wife in england moving to spain



## sgaldo (Nov 15, 2010)

hello wonderful people!
here's my situation:
i'm an american, married to a brit living in the uk on a setllement visa (us passport). we've been here for nearly a year and have decided to move to granada spain sometime this summer (probably july). i speak a good bit of spanish (if that matters at this point).

i'm aware that i will probably have to start over to get leave to remain in the uk if we stay more than 90 days, but that's not my issue at the moment.
for now i have a few very basic questions about getting the right to live and work in spain:

1- what is the name of the permit/card i need? i have heard several different names including EU family member residence card, temporary NIE, and EEA family permit. What is it??

2- how do i apply for this permit? i have done some reading on this forum and found a few answers. one involved getting a lawyer and recent copies of our marriage certificate. another seemed much easier involving 10 euros and a few forms. there have also been mentions of visiting the spanish embassy in the uk and the spanish consulate in caracas.... long story short, there seem to be many ways to do this... what do i do??

If it will not be expensive and too complicated, i would like to do it myself without a lawyer. but if it's too much to sift through, maybe a lawyer is the right way to go.
thank you so much for reading... sorry for the long-winded questions.
i would appreciate any straightforward advice anyone can provide.


----------



## gus-lopez (Jan 4, 2010)

I thought you had to leave the UK for more than 2 years before there was a problem returning ? Or do you have a date stamp in your passport ?


----------



## sgaldo (Nov 15, 2010)

sorry, i wasnt clear. i meant that i would have to start again (to get indefinite leave to remain) if i don't spend a certain number of days a year in england.
i'm no expert, and i could be totally wrong. but i thought it was 90 days. maybe i wont have a problem returning... but that's not the issue for me at the moment anyway.
thanks for helping me clarify.


----------



## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

sgaldo said:


> hello wonderful people!
> here's my situation:
> i'm an american, married to a brit living in the uk on a setllement visa (us passport). we've been here for nearly a year and have decided to move to granada spain sometime this summer (probably july). i speak a good bit of spanish (if that matters at this point).
> 
> ...


have a look at this thread .... there is an explanation of the process & a discussion

http://www.expatforum.com/expats/spain-expat-forum-expats-living-spain/96925-non-eu-nationals-becoming-residents-spain.html

it's doable without a lawyer once you & your OH are here in Spain

your wife as a British citizen has the right to live & work here & by extension, as spouse, so do you - though you have to 'apply' for it

the only problem might be actually getting work.....


----------



## sgaldo (Nov 15, 2010)

yeah... i know it'll be hard. i'm a qualified and experienced english teacher, so i'm hoping i can ride that out... 
thanks so much for the link. there's a lot of info out there to sift through. this makes it a bit easier.


----------



## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

sgaldo said:


> yeah... i know it'll be hard. i'm a qualified and experienced english teacher, so i'm hoping i can ride that out...
> thanks so much for the link. there's a lot of info out there to sift through. this makes it a bit easier.


is that tefl or qualified teacher?

if the former............. it's hard to make a living wage outside of the big cities like Madrid

if the latter - have a look at the useful links sticky on the education post - there are links to associations of British & American Schools in Spain - you never know - someone might be looking for teachers for the next school year in September (or even sooner)


----------



## sgaldo (Nov 15, 2010)

xabiachica said:


> is that tefl or qualified teacher?
> 
> if the former............. it's hard to make a living wage outside of the big cities like Madrid
> 
> if the latter - have a look at the useful links sticky on the education post - there are links to associations of British & American Schools in Spain - you never know - someone might be looking for teachers for the next school year in September (or even sooner)


i have an EFL teaching license and master's degree from virginia, usa. i'll be doing research on both schools and adult ed once i figure out how to work.. thanks for the heads up!


----------



## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

xabiachica said:


> is that tefl or qualified teacher?
> 
> if the former............. it's hard to make a living wage outside of the big cities like Madrid
> 
> if the latter - have a look at the useful links sticky on the education post - there are links to associations of British & American Schools in Spain - you never know - someone might be looking for teachers for the next school year in September (or even sooner)


This is good advice; please take it!


----------



## sgaldo (Nov 15, 2010)

*update. spanish residency for UK and USA married couple*

hi everybody! as always, thanks for your help. my wife and i are still struggling to get our residency in granada, spain... it's not a happy story at the moment... but it's also not over.
here's just a quick update as to what we've had to do (and are still trying to do) to get residency:

first thing, my wife had to get residency. i'm not an EU citizen, but she is, so we figured it would be easy enough.
for this, we needed empadronamiento from the ayuntamiento. (basically a document stating that we are living in the city) to get this, we needed to live in a flat that was recorded. ours wasnt. a bit of a nightmare to get it. several trips to the ayuntamiento.
next, we needed 5000 euros in our bank account. luckily, my parents lent us the money.
we were told conflicting stories from people in the same office about private health insurance. in the end, it turns out her EHIC card was sufficient.
after 16 visits to the oficina de extranjeros, sifting though the massive amounts of (often conflicting) information we were given, my wife got her residency.

originially, i was told (at the office) that my wife needed her residency, then with my work pre-contract, i could get mine. this is not true.
i went back with all my documents, including marriage cert and translation, EHIC card, EX# document (application form) passports, bank account info, job contract and copies of everything... but they told me this last time that together we either needed to have 8000 euros in the bank or my wife needed a job contract. 
ridiculous.
at the moment, we've been to the oficina de extranjeros 19 times... thinking about just not going back at all. is it time to give up? work illegally? keep trying, only to be met with lots of emphatic "NO!"?
we've done everything we've been told to do. i'm completely above board at the moment. the office doesnt seem to offer important information unless it's paired with rejection. sorry for the short rant, but can you tell i'm frustrated?

meanwhile, if we give up, we've already signed a rental contract because e were sure we could get it all squared away... what do we do about that? 

so that's where we stand. married. all documents in. i have a job contract. thousands of (borrowed) euros in the bank. 19 trips to the oficina de extranjeros...
and NO RESIDENCY.


----------



## Calas felices (Nov 29, 2007)

Welcome to Spain - it only goes downhill from here!!


----------



## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

sgaldo said:


> hi everybody! as always, thanks for your help. my wife and i are still struggling to get our residency in granada, spain... it's not a happy story at the moment... but it's also not over.
> here's just a quick update as to what we've had to do (and are still trying to do) to get residency:
> 
> first thing, my wife had to get residency. i'm not an EU citizen, but she is, so we figured it would be easy enough.
> ...


Welcome to the world of Spanish bureaucracy!!!! I'm not sure of the answer, but I'm surprised they let you use the EHIC as proof of healthcare - that seems to be a most peoples stumbling block. Usually tho, you cant be put on the padron if you dont have residencia, the rental contract would also need to be seen. What the authorities want to see is that you can support yourselves. You have the job and your wife has the EU status. Have you thought5 of going to a gestor who could maybe write something for you that would satisfy the foreigners office and give you residencia???

Jo xxx


----------



## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

sgaldo said:


> hi everybody! as always, thanks for your help. my wife and i are still struggling to get our residency in granada, spain... it's not a happy story at the moment... but it's also not over.
> here's just a quick update as to what we've had to do (and are still trying to do) to get residency:
> 
> first thing, my wife had to get residency. i'm not an EU citizen, but she is, so we figured it would be easy enough.
> ...


nightmare - you've certainly fallen foul of the rule changes since you originally posted this thread  - but we always knew it wouldn't be easy

you'd think they would accept your work contract though - although perhaps they would expect the company to have sponsored you??

if the worst comes to the worst & you have to leave, don't worry about the rental contract - all you have to do is give a month notice & you can leave - that's the law (assuming you pay rent monthly )


----------



## sgaldo (Nov 15, 2010)

thanks jojo and xabiachica
we're going to weigh all the options... lots to think about.
we've definitely complicated things by throwing a third country into the mix... we've definitely got enough bureaucracy to keep ourselves occupied between our two home countries!

it's a relief to hear about the rental contract. 
only problem is when we signed, they were very clear that they needed us to stay a full year. 
do you think we could run into a problem if we broke it?

i guess my advice for anyone thinking about moving to spain would be to consider your current situation and really weigh it against dealing with wildly confusing, changing, and contradictory bureaucracy in a second language... it aint easy. especially at the oficina de extranjeros in granada.
but the funny thing is, as an english teacher, it's been super easy to find a job. it's just the "right to work" that's the hard part at the moment.


----------



## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

sgaldo said:


> thanks jojo and xabiachica
> we're going to weigh all the options... lots to think about.
> we've definitely complicated things by throwing a third country into the mix... we've definitely got enough bureaucracy to keep ourselves occupied between our two home countries!
> 
> ...


as far as the contract is concerned - they'll kick & scream a bit & you won't get your deposit back - but rarely in my experience does anyone get their deposit back anyway - most landlords seem to find a way of using it up on 'damage' 

but they won't do any more than that - you have the law on your side that if it's your home & you pay monthly you only have to give a month notice


----------



## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

I would definitely go to a gestor, it may cost a few Euros but they can often pull a few strings and knock on doors that may well be personally barred to you. 

It is a very much nothing tried is nothing gained situation and the gestor may well turn the tide for you.


----------



## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

baldilocks said:


> I would definitely go to a gestor, it may cost a few Euros but they can often pull a few strings and knock on doors that may well be personally barred to you.
> 
> It is a very much nothing tried is nothing gained situation and the gestor may well turn the tide for you.


One of the first things we intend doing, is to employ the services of a gestor once we arrive. From what I have read, I find the fact of using someone local reassuring, however how do you choose your gestor if you are new to the country is it pot luck?

Is the OP having problems mainly due to the 2 nationalities............I would hate to arrive and then not get residency...how will I buy my home!!!!


----------



## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

cambio said:


> One of the first things we intend doing, is to employ the services of a gestor once we arrive. From what I have read, I find the fact of using someone local reassuring, however how do you choose your gestor if you are new to the country is it pot luck?
> 
> Is the OP having problems mainly due to the 2 nationalities............I would hate to arrive and then not get residency...how will I buy my home!!!!


the problem the OP is having is because he is a US citizen - so his 'right to residency' rests upon his wife & her ability to prove that she can support him

without her, he wouldn't have any chance at all - unless he had an employer sponsor him or something like 60,000€ in the bank/annual income (not sure which :confused2

which makes the 8000€ they are asking for seem not so bad.......

for a gestor - ask around locally when you get here - if you don't get on with one just move down the street to the next one!


----------



## gracegaldo (Mar 10, 2012)

Thanks to everyone for all the advice. I think if we do continue then a gestor will be our next option. I'm just worried that we will spend money on a gestor and it will end up not helping. If this had happened a few months ago, I would have been all for it, but now we are both so jaded by the whole experience that we are just tying to muster the energy to continue. 
It's such a shame. We love Spain, we love Granada even more, but the reality of living here right now is harder than we thought. Oddly enough, it's not about finding work, we've got plenty of opportunities as we teach English and Granada has enough work to keep us going. It's just getting legal that is the confusing part. 

We are also feeling a bit lonely and finding it hard to settle in. The language barrier is hard, we have met some lovely people but it's still not the same as conversing in your native language...having to have a joke explained 5 times before you get it i annoying for everyone! I know that this feeling will fade though if we stick it out, we've both moved to new countries before and the first few months are always the hardest.

Our last visit to the oficina de extranjeros was ridiculous. We were told by my husbands advisor that he could now begin work. "uhh, ok, are you sure?" we asked, and he said yes, you are fine to start work. You have an NIE number. We knew there was something wrong, so we asked to speak to someone else who told us what we already knew... of course he can't work until the whole application is complete, fingerprints are in and he has the piece of paper saying he can. 

It really is a different story EVERY time and we are left drained and exhausted. Right now, my grim little island and it's straightforward bureaucracy is looking very appealing.


----------



## LaraMascara (Oct 19, 2012)

Oy vey! Wow. I feel for you. 

And, now, there is no way we are moving to Spain without my *actual British passport* in my hand... 

What a nightmare! I really do hope you get it sorted. 

xoxoxoxo


----------



## expatmat (Feb 12, 2013)

This post is depressing! I'm in the same situation - UK citizen married to non-EU national. I have funds and income outside of Spain to support ourselves but I don't like the sound of 19 trips to the Junta. How did it all work out?


----------



## sgaldo (Nov 15, 2010)

funny you should ask... i finally got residencia last week!!
i think part of our difficulty was that when we got in, the rules had JUST changed, so nobody really knew what to tell us, hence all the mixed messages and confusion at the oficina.
sounds like with your situation, you should be alright... are you in granada or another city? either way, good luck and let us know how things turn out... just keep your cool and be patient... that's the key.


----------



## expatmat (Feb 12, 2013)

Well done to you.
I'm at an early stage wondering if I need to register as autonomo (self employed) or simply try and convince them I have enough $ in the bank. Either way, the less involved in the system the better as it seems a headache.


----------



## sgaldo (Nov 15, 2010)

you got that right.
as far as money in the bank, i believe you need to show 4000 euros to get your residency and 8000 for your spouse.
in order for you to get residency, you need to show that you have 4000 euros (equivalent) in the bank.
in order for your spouse to get residency, you need to show that you have 8000 euros.

it's a bit steep, but with some borrowing and/or clever money moving, you may be able to beat it without having all of it yourself.

if you can't show that amount of money, a job contract or autonomo with proof of income should do it.

good luck man. we're rooting for you.


----------



## redshoes (Jan 1, 2013)

Have you thought about getting a solicitor who speaks english and spanish, sometimes it's worth the money to have professional help?


----------



## joshjadavies (Jan 22, 2012)

Is it necessary to get married in spain or if a Brit and a non-EU person plan to get married can to do so in England and then come back to Spain and apply for residency for the non-EU person?


----------



## sgaldo (Nov 15, 2010)

joshjadavies said:


> Is it necessary to get married in spain or if a Brit and a non-EU person plan to get married can to do so in England and then come back to Spain and apply for residency for the non-EU person?


short answer: 
no, you don't need to be married in spain.

little bit longer answer: 
my wife and i were married in the usa. (i'm american and she's english)
for our marriage certificate to be recognized by spain we had to get an "apostille of the hague" attached to our marriage certificate, and present that with an official translation of both the apostille and the certificate.
to get the apostille, we just took it to an office in washington dc (the city where we were married), paid some money, and got an official-looking paper stapled to our marriage certificate. (we did this on our last visit)

not sure if you need the apostille seal if it's an english marriage certificate, as that's all E.U. 
but if you do, it shouldnt be too difficult to get one.

after that, we just got it translated to spanish in spain (be sure it's a "traduccion jurado" done by a proper legal translator or else it won't be recognized)

spain's bureaucratic system is a tough nut to crack. but it can be done!
good luck! :fingerscrossed:


----------



## joshjadavies (Jan 22, 2012)

sgaldo said:


> short answer:
> no, you don't need to be married in spain.
> 
> little bit longer answer:
> ...


1 more question, this may be very dumb but a friend tried to tell me today that if your partner is not Spanish you only get residency not permission to work. In other words my gf is British not Spanish, if we marry, I can get residency and live here but that doesn't mean I have permission to work. That can't possibly be true right?


----------



## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

joshjadavies said:


> 1 more question, this may be very dumb but a friend tried to tell me today that if your partner is not Spanish you only get residency not permission to work. In other words my gf is British not Spanish, if we marry, I can get residency and live here but that doesn't mean I have permission to work. That can't possibly be true right?


you're right - it's not true 

if you get residency you also get permission to work


----------



## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

xabiachica said:


> you're right - it's not true
> 
> if you get residency you also get permission to work


I'm not sure about that. It would, surely depend on the terms of his visa as a non-EU national. My suegra has right of residency as the dependant of SWMBO and myself BUT she is not allowed to work.


----------



## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

baldilocks said:


> I'm not sure about that. It would, surely depend on the terms of his visa as a non-EU national. My suegra has right of residency as the dependant of SWMBO and myself BUT she is not allowed to work.


oohh - I didn't realise there were different permissions

everything I've read states that the non-EU spouse of an EU citizen gets right to work along with residency

maybe your suegra's is different because she's a dependant?

if I get a chance later I'll look out some links


----------



## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

xabiachica said:


> oohh - I didn't realise there were different permissions
> 
> everything I've read states that the non-EU spouse of an EU citizen gets right to work along with residency
> 
> ...


I linked the two because they are both getting right of residency as "family member of EU citizen". SWMBO and I are both UK citizens but the suegra is US citizen.


----------



## sgaldo (Nov 15, 2010)

joshjadavies said:


> 1 more question, this may be very dumb but a friend tried to tell me today that if your partner is not Spanish you only get residency not permission to work. In other words my gf is British not Spanish, if we marry, I can get residency and live here but that doesn't mean I have permission to work. That can't possibly be true right?


i'm no expert, but i've been through it.
i entered spain as a tourist (although i had a settlement visa in the UK, but I dont think that had any bearing on my rights in Spain)
once we got all our papers together and job contracts and money in the bank sorted, we were able to apply for my wife (the british one)'s residency. 
once she had hers, i could apply for mine.

i now have residency (residencia familiar ciudadano de la union) and the right to work.


----------

