# Moving to Cape town from the US



## bretongreen (Nov 17, 2008)

Hello
I will be moving my family to Capetown from the US and will love advice on where we can live that is very secured and schools the children can go to, they are 13,11, and 7 years of Age.My wife and I are both Medical Doctors.
Thanks
Breton


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## Daxk (Jan 20, 2008)

Hi Bretongreen, will you be practicing as Doctors?
I understand that there is a certification Exam to be written and the possibility of Community Service where the SA Medical Council will decide where you are likely to be the most useful before you can practice as any sort of Medical Professional.
That may well be a Hospital or Clinic out of Cape Town.


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## Juliet (Jul 22, 2008)

Breton,

Do you know where you will be working.? My family and I just moved here a little over a month ago from the U.S...We chose to live in one of the smaller communities that is not so busy, Hout Bay.
We live in a gated secure community and our children go to a British International School, which they LOVE(the girls are 13). However if you are interested in an American school there is one in Constantia/Claremont area which is also a lovely area.

-Juliet


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## Daxk (Jan 20, 2008)

Breton,
You need to check things out very carefully.
American Medical Degrees are NOT all recognised by the SA Medical Council.
If you are fortunate enough to have Valid Qualifications,you will still have to write an Exam,apart from Competency,it will also include SA Medica Law and After That,you will have to provide Community Service in a Government Facility that they decide the location of(which could be Johannesburg or anywhere else in SA) for one year at Government rates Of Pay Scale.
The relevant sections from the Act and The Health Councils websites are here.


(1) The Registrar may register a foreign qualified person in the category independent 
practice in any of the professions registered under the Act and for which independent practice applies, if such a person has:-

(a)	complied with the qualification requirements for registration referred to in regulation 2 (2);

(b)	(i) registered in terms of regulation 2 (2) and completed a minimum period of five years service in the public service; or

(ii) in the case of South African foreign qualified citizens, performed 
community service in terms of section 24A of the Act in respect of the 
professions for which community service applies; and

(c)	passed the relevant examination for registration in the category independent practice.

The Relevant section of the Health Act says:


Community service 

24A. (1) Notwithstanding section 24, any person registering for the first time for a profession listed in the regulations in terms of this Act after the commencement of the Medical, Dental and Supplementary Health Service Professions Amendment Act, 1997, shall perform remunerated medical community service for a period of one year in terms of the regulations contemplated in subsection (2) and shall, on the completion of such service, be entitled to practice the profession in question.

(2) The Minister may, after consultation with the council, make regulations concerning the performance of the service contemplated in subsection (1), including but not limited to-

(i)	the place or places at which it is to be performed;

(ii)	the conditions of employment.
[S. 24A inserted by s. 22 of Act 89 of 1997.]


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## Martinw (Jan 2, 2009)

bretongreen said:


> Hello
> I will be moving my family to Capetown from the US and will love advice on where we can live that is very secured and schools the children can go to, they are 13,11, and 7 years of Age.My wife and I are both Medical Doctors.
> Thanks
> Breton


I am sorry I thought I read that you are moving to SA from USA. Is ther domething wrong with you guys. I moved from SA to OZ. I can not believe that any person want to move their wife and children there. Oz i great. Peace calm, sleep without fear of your wife and daughter getting raped by a savage. Think you need to do your home work man. 
Go to this website and if you still want to move there \I feel sorry for your family

http://dienuwesuidafrika.blogspot.com/2006/08/its-not-crime-its-war.htmlis doesnt scare you then you are either very brave( beacuse you are a doctor you cant be stupid)

If th


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## Mickyxxx (Sep 6, 2008)

OZ what a boring dump they are all up themselves and the crime is escalating, I have relatives there who are bored out of their sculls. NZ is far better


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## Martinw (Jan 2, 2009)

*NZ biggest immigrant group to Aus*

Yeah its is such a dump. I am just wondering why the biggest number of immigrants into Australia come from New Zealand. ( and most of them also happen to be the South Africans - Everyone knows that a lot of South Africans used NZ as a stepping stone to get to AUS a while back and prob still do.)Lets see. Excellent weather, rich country, good at sport, safety and security( and by the way if the crime escalates here, then we of course know what it is doing in any other part of the world) 
Seeing that you say you have relatives here, I would take it that you dont acyually live here so how woulf you know if it is a boring dump. Oh yes sorry I missed the part where dodging bullets and hijackers in South Africa makes life exciting. If you are in South Africa, well you can enjoy doing all those funfilled activities everyday. I will will enjoy my "boring" life here and enjoying to spend quality and peacefull time with my family. Are you doing the same?



Mickyxxx said:


> OZ what a boring dump they are all up themselves and the crime is escalating, I have relatives there who are bored out of their sculls. NZ is far better


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## Halo (May 8, 2008)

Mickyxxx said:


> OZ what a boring dump they are all up themselves and the crime is escalating, I have relatives there who are bored out of their sculls. NZ is far better


If you like the 70's


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## Mickyxxx (Sep 6, 2008)

I live all over the world and my favourite place by far is SA I have been ripped off and robbed in Italy and London and almost shot in Bulgaria had my mobile stolen in Paris which ensued into a nasty brawl involving a dozen people but never had a prob in SA

an interesting article-

I dare you to visit Johannesburg, the city for softies 

09 Mar 2009 12:00 | Jeremy Clarkson – London Sunday Times 


It’s the least frightening place on earth, yet everyone speaks of how many times they’ve been killed that day.

Every city needs a snappy one-word handle to pull in the tourists and the investors. So, when you think of Paris, you think of love; when you think of New York, you think of shopping; and when you think of London – despite the best efforts of new Labour to steer you in the direction of Darcus Howe – you think of beefeaters and Mrs Queen.

Rome has its architecture. Sydney has its bridge. Venice has its sewage and Johannesburg has its crime. Yup, Jo’burg – the subject of this morning’s missive – is where you go if you want to be carjacked, shot, stabbed, killed and eaten. 
You could tell your mother you were going on a package holiday to Kabul, with a stopover in Haiti and Detroit, and she wouldn’t bat an eyelid. But tell her you’re going to Jo’burg and she’ll be absolutely convinced that you’ll come home with no wallet, no watch and no head.

Jo’burg has a fearsome global reputation for being utterly terrifying, a lawless Wild West frontier town paralysed by corruption and disease. But I’ve spent quite a bit of time there over the past three years and I can reveal that it’s all nonsense.

If crime is so bad then how come, the other day, the front-page lead in the city’s main newspaper concerned the theft of a computer from one of the local schools? I’m not joking.

The paper even ran a massive picture of the desk where the computer used to sit. It was the least interesting picture I’ve ever seen in a newspaper. But then it would be, because this was one of the least interesting crimes.

“Pah,” said the armed guard who’d been charged with escorting me each day from my hotel to the Coca-Cola dome where I was performing a stage version of Top Gear. 

Quite why he was armed I have absolutely no idea, because all we passed was garden centres and shops selling tropical fish tanks. Now I’m sorry, but if it’s true that the streets are a war zone, and you run the risk of being shot every time you set foot outside your front door, then, yes, I can see you might risk a trip to the shops for some food. But a fish tank? An ornamental pot for your garden? It doesn’t ring true. 

Look Jo’burg up on Wikipedia and it tells you it’s now one of the most violent cities in the world . . . but it adds in brackets “citation needed”. That’s like saying Gordon Brown is a two-eyed British genius (citation needed).

Honestly? Johannesburg is Milton Keynes with thunderstorms. You go out. You have a lovely ostrich. You drink some delicious wine and you walk back to your hotel, all warm and comfy. It’s the least frightening place on earth. So why does every single person there wrap themselves up in razor wire and fit their cars with flame-throwers and speak of how many times they’ve been killed that day? What are they trying to prove?

Next year South Africa will play host to the football World Cup. The opening and closing matches will be played in Jo’burg, and no one’s going to go if they think they will be stabbed. 
The locals even seem to accept this, as at the new airport terminal only six passport booths have been set aside for non-South African residents. 

At first it’s baffling. Why ruin the reputation of your city and risk the success of the footballing World Cup to fuel a story that plainly isn’t true? There is no litter and no graffiti. I’ve sauntered through Soweto on a number of occasions now, swinging a Nikon round my head, with no effect. You stand more chance of being mugged in Monte Carlo.

Time and again I was told I could buy an AK47 for 100 rand – about £7. But when I said, “Okay, let’s go and get one”, no one had the first idea where to start looking. And they were even more clueless when I asked about bullets. 
As I bought yet another agreeable carved doll from yet another agreeable black person, I wanted to ring up those idiots who compile surveys of the best and worst places to live and say: “Why do you keep banging on about Vancouver, you idiots? Jo’burg’s way better.” 
Instead, however, I sat down and tried to work out why the locals paint their city as the eighth circle of hell. And I think I have an answer. It’s because they want to save the lions in the Kruger National Park.

I promise I am not making this up. Every night, people in Mozambique pack up their possessions and set off on foot through the Kruger for a new life in the quiet, bougainvillea-lined streets of Jo’burg. And very often these poor unfortunate souls are eaten by the big cats. 
That, you may imagine, is bad news for the families of those who’ve been devoured. But actually it’s even worse for Johnny Lion. You see, a great many people in Mozambique have Aids, and the fact is this: if you can catch HIV from someone’s blood or saliva during a bout of tender love-making, you can be assured you will catch it if you wolf the person down whole. Even if you are called Clarence and you have a mane. 
At present, it’s estimated that there are 2,000 lions in the Kruger National Park and studies suggest 90% have feline Aids. Some vets suggest the epidemic was started by lions eating the lungs of diseased buffalos. But there are growing claims from experts in the field that, actually, refugees are the biggest problem. 
That’s clearly the answer, then.

Johannesburgians are telling the world they live in a ****-hole to save their lions. That’s the sort of people they are. And so, if you are thinking about going to the World Cup next year, don’t hesitate.

The exchange rate’s good, the food is superb, the weather’s lovely and, thanks to some serious economic self-sacrifice, Kruger is still full of animals. The word, then, I’d choose to describe Jo’burg is “tranquil”. 

Categories: Australian Market News | UK Market News | South African Market News | Press Releases | Australian Market News | UK Market News | South African Market News | Press Releases | 





SA lodges named in list of world's top eco-lodges 

Freedom Park Trust honours struggle heroes 

Koeberg to get R1.6 billion upgrade 

SA and Egyptian entrepreneurs selected for elite network 

Coastal protection zone for CT 






NEW DEVELOPMENTS - Property in Johannesburg, Cape Town, Durban, Brisbane and UK 

South Africa 


Gauteng 

- Kalgaro 

- Misty Crest 


Western Cape 

- Pepper Club 

- Pinelands Grove 


Kwa-Zulu Natal 

- Sheffield Gardens 




United Kingdom 


London 

- Discounted New Developments 




Australia 


Queensland


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## Daxk (Jan 20, 2008)

" but never had a prob in SA"
Which is why you keep on going back there.
Until something does happen whereupon you have this damascus type conversion and cant understand why anyone in their right mind wishes to go there.
Or you are so embarrassed that you neve mention it again online,just in case someone sings you the Sha nan naan na song.(which is the most frequent occurrence)
Or you are dead.

Or, you get seriously lucky and never have anything life threatening happen to you and just cant understand why people say its unsafe.

There are three kinds of people in SA.
Victims of Violent crime.
People who have'nt yet experienced Violent crime
Violent criminals.

The only people who can tell me theres no chance violent crime will happen to them in SA, are either already dead or not living in SA .


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## Martinw (Jan 2, 2009)

Mickyxxx said:


> I live all over the world and my favourite place by far is SA I have been ripped off and robbed in Italy and London and almost shot in Bulgaria had my mobile stolen in Paris which ensued into a nasty brawl involving a dozen people but never had a prob in SA
> 
> 
> I am not actually sure if I should laugh or cry when I read you guys write all this "goodie" cr....p about a country we all know is heading only one way. maybe all of you are jealous, or embarrassed to admit that all of us sitting somewhere else did the right thing. No-one is saying that you will not get affected by crime in these countries, but I can almost guarrentee that your chances of being affected by the serious unspeakable violent crime that happens in South Africa everyday is almost non existant. I can only speak about Aus and there is no more FEAR. FULLSTOP. That alone is more than enough, but then there are so many other positives as well. I am sure most other countries, where people would have migrated to but would assume it would be similar.
> ...


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## TheLastBaron (Mar 27, 2009)

Martinw said:


> I am sorry I thought I read that you are moving to SA from USA. Is ther domething wrong with you guys. I moved from SA to OZ. I can not believe that any person want to move their wife and children there. Oz i great. Peace calm, sleep without fear of your wife and daughter getting raped by a savage. Think you need to do your home work man.
> Go to this website and if you still want to move there \I feel sorry for your family
> 
> doesnt scare you then you are either very brave( beacuse you are a doctor you cant be stupid)
> ...


Hi, I suspect you moved to Oz because you are a racist. Many whites fled SA after Apartheid ended and Oz was a preferred place to resettle. You seem to have nothing kind to say about SA, no matter who posts, who asks what and how intelligent a question may be. I think you may want to cease and desist and go find something else to should about, Martin. No one is buying what you are selling anymore.


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## Boi (Apr 2, 2009)

Hi Bretongreen,
I am in similar situation to you and was just wondering how you are getting along in capetown.my partner and I are Drs currently practicing in Ireland.we are considering moving to capetown jan 2010.we have 20 mont old daughter.i want to know your opinion on capetown,living expenses etc


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## Daxk (Jan 20, 2008)

Hi BOI, do you intend practicing in SA?
I suggest you contact the Health Proffessionals Association of SA.

The questions you need to ask them in iro of the Medical Proffessions Act (35 I think)

What exams you wil have to do to re-Qualify as a Medical Practitioner in SA?

will you have to do community service and for what period?
At which Hospital(and get it in writing) as they can choose to send you whereever they need you.
Will both you and your Wife both Practice at the same Hospital as it is likely you will end up doing one or even two years Community Service either in the sticks or in one of the Predominently poor Townships.
South Africa is desparate for Doctors.

In South Africa
This is the blog for a Doctor who spent a year working in a Rural Hospital, well worth a read ,
its well written and has good and bad parts.
s regards your Daughter, I assume you will probably get a Nannie which is a positive, most kids in SA grew up well with their beloved black Nannies.
You do however need to get her covertly checked for Aids and XZR -TB,
You cannot overtly ask as if Positive and you decide to get rid of her for any other reason ,you will not be able to as she will claim that it was because of the illness.

There is another excellent Blog written by a guy called 6000 miles from Civilization..
He is a medical technologist living in CT and has two young children.

Do a Grocery shop with your normal shopping list at picknpay.co.za and google any question with a .za at the end regarding rentals etc.


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## Boi (Apr 2, 2009)

Hi Daxk,
Thank you for your response.We are actually considering going there as tarinee Drs(to subspecialise in infectious diseases)-supernumerary with affiliation to UCT.so we will definately be in CPT and will not be getting a salary from them.if we do go it will be for 2 yrs.


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## Daxk (Jan 20, 2008)

Then contact 6k as he is labbing TB.


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## C.Haynolds (Apr 19, 2009)

bretongreen said:


> Hello
> I will be moving my family to Capetown from the US and will love advice on where we can live that is very secured and schools the children can go to, they are 13,11, and 7 years of Age.My wife and I are both Medical Doctors.
> Thanks
> Breton


How did it work out for you?
Moving out to Cape town from the US also. Only for a year/two on business. Can anyone recommend a friendly neighborhood along the beach?

Cheers


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## Boi (Apr 2, 2009)

Daxk said:


> Then contact 6k as he is labbing TB.


hi Dxk.i didnt quite understand what you meant by above post.ps explain


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## Daxk (Jan 20, 2008)

6000 miles from civilisation... is the blog of 6k who lives in CT and is a micro biologist doing work on TB and XDR. he can possibly advise you


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## Halo (May 8, 2008)

TheLastBaron said:


> Hi, I suspect you moved to Oz because you are a racist. Many whites fled SA after Apartheid ended and Oz was a preferred place to resettle. You seem to have nothing kind to say about SA, no matter who posts, who asks what and how intelligent a question may be. I think you may want to cease and desist and go find something else to should about, Martin. No one is buying what you are selling anymore.


Don't play the race card......


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## luismg (Oct 27, 2007)

*I'm dissapointed*

Time and time again I've been reading both sides of the story, and I still don't know what to believe...
What it seems to me, is that there is something really wrong with southafricans today. I'm sorry, I don't want to offend anyone, but people you have a serious self esteem problem.

I am argentinian, I've visited CapeTown a couple years ago and I found one of the most pleasant and beatiful places I've ever seen.
I've been there only three days, so I cannot make an oppinion of course.
I can only tell you what I felt and saw, and I liked it a lot.
It is very hard to imagine something bad happening there, although I might be wrong.

Some time ago, I posted a long message asking about the real situation in South Africa and Cape Town in particular, because the contrast between what I saw with my own eyes, and what I read everyday in the news is strickingly shocking.

I understand that CT may not be representative of the rest of SA, and that perhaps Johannesburg is way different, but I still wonder if I should believe what many southafricans say about their own country.

I don't deny that thre may be problems (which country doesn't have problems??), but I feel that many expat southafricans *need to convince themselves that they made the right decission when leaving*.

Am I wrong?
People, there are crime everywhere.
Crime in Rio de Janeiro, for example, is rampant. But it doesn't harm tourism and I know people who still love this city with all their heart.
I don't think the situation in CP or JB is any different or worst. Is it?

I have a theory:
Expat southafricans miss the old regime, where they were completely safe, and now they feel everything is completely out of control because the old regime does not exist anymore. And now they are crying out loud so others can see what they've done to their country. (I insist, I may be wrong. Please tell me what you think).

Luis





Daxk said:


> " but never had a prob in SA"
> Which is why you keep on going back there.
> Until something does happen whereupon you have this damascus type conversion and cant understand why anyone in their right mind wishes to go there.
> Or you are so embarrassed that you neve mention it again online,just in case someone sings you the Sha nan naan na song.(which is the most frequent occurrence)
> ...


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## Daxk (Jan 20, 2008)

Luis, there is only one way to find out.
Go there, go and live in Johannesburg, maybe you are lucky,maybe you are unlucky.

as to your theories, you are saying the same thing that people who cannot understand why almost a 1/3rd of the white population left, why every little pop survey about wether South africans would emigrate if they had the chance shows that the 60 odd % of middle class white south africans and about 28% of middle class Black south africans say that Crime makes them want to leave SA.
so tell me Luis, why do so many South Africans want to leave?

you are right,I do miss the Old apartheid regime, but my aim is improving.

I think the whole bunch from Verwoerd on should be dug up, their bones crushed and the dust scattered in pit latrines.

I think the whole living bunch except RF Botha and De Klerk should be put against a wall and shot.

as to your comment about that we were safer,yes we were, for a very good reason.
compare the the detection and conviction rates pre-1994 and post 94 you will see a huge difference.

Murderers and rapists were caught in greater numbers, they were put in prison and some of them were hung.
People feared the Police and the law system, now even the Police officers dont trust each other not to be corrupt. 

There are two kinds of expat South Africans. those who go for two year work experience which may stretch to 7-10 years and then there are the middle aged with a couple of kids(30-40) who leave everything they have built to start new in another Country, to do it as a young 
person who is unattached, does'nt have children or a home is a lot easier then someone who is settled in their career,their home and yet feels strongly enough to leave it all behind.

And the argument that they did it because of racism is stupid, because they go to Countries that have no impediment to race.
if they are leaving because they dont want to live next to a black Family why do they go to places where black families can live next door to them.
To places where black and white children are equal in Schools?
(My daughters school has Nigerian,Somalian and South african Black children in its classrooms)

Are the newspapers lieing about Crime?
if so, why are they ALL reporting crime.
why are they ALL saying Violent crime levels are too high?
What happens if they are under reporting crime?

again,its very easy, go to SA, go and join the local Community Blockwatch, even in "safe" Cape, then come and tell me after about 6 months wether its safe or not?

Your thought that expat Saffers are trying to justify their reasons for leaving.

If someone leaves with a qualification and some experience, goes overseas and gets even more experience, earns Foreign Currency that is more than he would have had he stayed in SA, at the end of the day, none of us have burnt our boats.
Anyone of us who has been overseas can go back and be more employable than we left.
we can go back with more money to buy a house cash,start a business than most of the time had we stayed in SA.
We're more employable than a foreigner who has to get a work permit, our SA salaries are cheaper, we understand the Languages and Culture better, we know the legal and tax environment better, we have networks from School and varsity and Work in place,

Any of the between 900,000 and 1,5 million expat South Africans could slip seamlessly into place in SA

What makes most of them so adamant theet they dont want to?
especially the ones with kids?


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## luismg (Oct 27, 2007)

*"Safe" Capetown*

Daxk, you mentioned "safe" Cape.
Why? Does it mean that Cape Town is safer than the rest of the country? Is it an exception or it just has crime as the rest?

Is it perhaps that a short visit to CapeTown gave me a wrong perception of safeness?

Luis



Daxk said:


> Luis, there is only one way to find out.
> Go there, go and live in Johannesburg, maybe you are lucky,maybe you are unlucky.
> 
> as to your theories, you are saying the same thing that people who cannot understand why almost a 1/3rd of the white population left, why every little pop survey about wether South africans would emigrate if they had the chance shows that the 60 odd % of middle class white south africans and about 28% of middle class Black south africans say that Crime makes them want to leave SA.
> ...


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## Daxk (Jan 20, 2008)

Luis, I dont know, we are discussing this on another thread, te western Cape has a very high murder rate, but it tends to be gang related within the poorer areas, you have bad areas right next to Top areas such as Constantia and Houtbay, 
There are home invasions but less of them, there are more Rapes,but they tend to be in the Townships, there are hi-jackings but again less as the major markets for the cars are either 1400kms away in Jhbg or 2000 kms away through Zimbabwe, which is alot of chances to go through a roadblock.
Maybe the Criminals in CT are different to the ones in the rest of the Country?

but again,you could drive through and live in Jhbg for years and only have irritating crime,
but if it happens, it tends to be a biggie.

some people discount it, others dont.


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## Daxk (Jan 20, 2008)

Luis, this is the survey I was referring to, its a year out of date so maybe by now all the ones who left cannot or are so happy they are doing headstands.

News24 - Error

"But in 2007, sentiments had changed with 41% of whites, 38% of blacks, 42% of coloureds and 30% of Indians thinking of leaving the country. "

sort of shoots anyone who tells you that its all bitter racist expats who want a return to slavery in the foot.


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## Daxk (Jan 20, 2008)

News24 - Error 

lets if that gives the addy


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## alexie62 (Jun 22, 2009)

*Moving to Cape Town*

Hello Breton, as a Capetonian by birth (although not livng there any longer) I would opt for Durbanville central, Durbanville Hills, Kendrige, Aurora and surrounding areas. Particularly because you are a family with young children, the integration should not be a problem a the Durbanville community are extremely hospitable, its still relatively safe, they have good schools, its close to the main N1 Highway and to the CTN City Centre (some 20-30mins drive). Also close to beach areas. I would not advise on the Century City, Bothasig and surrounding areas as these are easily accessible by criminals for all types of crime, particularly robberies. Its also a bit secluded whereas Durbanville is fully integrated and established. Best of Luck! Regards



bretongreen said:


> Hello
> I will be moving my family to Capetown from the US and will love advice on where we can live that is very secured and schools the children can go to, they are 13,11, and 7 years of Age.My wife and I are both Medical Doctors.
> Thanks
> Breton


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## capepamela (Jun 22, 2009)

Hi, just wondering if you have made the move yet? I just joined the group but would be happy to assist you if you still need any info. My husband and I moved to ZA from Missouri three years ago and love it here. We have three kids, 14, 12 and 9.


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## Boi (Apr 2, 2009)

how do i send PM on this forum?


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## captainjakeman (Jun 28, 2009)

Martinw said:


> Yeah its is such a dump. I am just wondering why the biggest number of immigrants into Australia come from New Zealand. ( and most of them also happen to be the South Africans - Everyone knows that a lot of South Africans used NZ as a stepping stone to get to AUS a while back and prob still do.)Lets see. Excellent weather, rich country, good at sport, safety and security( and by the way if the crime escalates here, then we of course know what it is doing in any other part of the world)
> Seeing that you say you have relatives here, I would take it that you dont acyually live here so how woulf you know if it is a boring dump. Oh yes sorry I missed the part where dodging bullets and hijackers in South Africa makes life exciting. If you are in South Africa, well you can enjoy doing all those funfilled activities everyday. I will will enjoy my "boring" life here and enjoying to spend quality and peacefull time with my family. Are you doing the same?


Dear "boring",

I don't think it's possible for you to say something positive is it? (no don't answer that, I forgot, you are to busy "enjoying to spend quality and peacefull time with my family".)
You are so covertly hostile I'm amazed you are allowed to remain.

We know who you are.


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## Daxk (Jan 20, 2008)

captainjakeman said:


> Dear "boring",
> 
> I don't think it's possible for you to say something positive is it? (no don't answer that, I forgot, you are to busy "enjoying to spend quality and peacefull time with my family".)
> You are so covertly hostile I'm amazed you are allowed to remain.
> ...


That is actualy so funny!!
The Self Named captain has'nt been on this forum a wet day and is making judgements and attacking!!

Its an open forum,well moderated, and allows freedom of speech, captainjakeman, it allows open minds, 

Tell me, how do you know who we are?
Should we be concerned about a knock on the door in the middle of the night?


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## Zimtony (Jun 28, 2008)

captainjakeman said:


> Dear "boring",
> 
> I don't think it's possible for you to say something positive is it? (no don't answer that, I forgot, you are to busy "enjoying to spend quality and peacefull time with my family".)
> You are so covertly hostile I'm amazed you are allowed to remain.
> ...


captainjakeman, what an inane post. This forum is based on the principle that freedom of expression rules - not ridiculous covert sounding expressions. "We know who you are" Are you with the FBI/CID/Specials/ etc? I think your time in the USA has left you a bit struck with Americanisms! Whilst we all by now most certainly know who *you* are, judging by your self-glorifying personal website, _(ridiculous references to the wife unit! What the hell is that about?), _the rest of us are just happy to express our opinions and share experiences. 

BTW judging by the list of celebreties that you have done work for, I don't think that Bruynzeel Enterprises Inc would struggle to find work in SA. Good luck.

"I'll be back" The Terminator, 1984


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## JulianQ101 (Jul 17, 2009)

*Changed my mind*

I am born and raised in Cape Town area; moved to Toronto 5 years ago for a variety of reasons.

I am NOT one of the Saffers who bash SA to feel good about the emigration and, in general, I tend to focus on the good side of SA. So... my wife and I were in serious planning to move back to Cape Town in few years time.

HERE IS WHY WE ARE RECONSIDERING THE MOVE BACK:


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## Zimtony (Jun 28, 2008)

JulianQ101 said:


> I am born and raised in Cape Town area; moved to Toronto 5 years ago for a variety of reasons.
> 
> I am NOT one of the Saffers who bash SA to feel good about the emigration and, in general, I tend to focus on the good side of SA. So... my wife and I were in serious planning to move back to Cape Town in few years time.
> 
> HERE IS WHY WE ARE RECONSIDERING THE MOVE BACK:


So, no reason then??


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## JulianQ101 (Jul 17, 2009)

Sorry guys! MY PC froze up when I was posting. 

Here is message again...
***********************************************************

I am born and raised in Cape Town area; moved to Toronto 5 years ago for a variety of reasons.

I am NOT one of the Saffers who bash SA to feel good about the emigration and, in general, I tend to focus on the good side of SA. So... my wife and I were in serious planning to move back to Cape Town in few years time.

HERE IS WHY WE ARE RECONSIDERING THE MOVE BACK:

My theory (and stats agreed) that most crime was in the poor areas, so all you needed to do was to exercise common sense and avoid certain areas. Easy, right? But it's not that simple. Armed home invasions - where up market areas are the target - seems to be on the increase. Yes, in Cape Town!

I wont mention the name of the suburb but there's a very upscale area in the northern suburbs of Cape Town that was my dream home destination. It's in the Plattekloof region. The plan was to buy a home there if we returned. So I got hold of the "meeting minutes" of the body corporate of the suburb. What I read in the meeting documents scared me and my wife to death. At the meetings that were minuted and recorded over the past 2 years, they discussed several home invasions! What? And they discussed more information about the 2 neighbouring suburbs (also very upscale) and their dramatic increase in what they termed "many violent armed robberies and home invasions." 

I keep a daily eye on the Cape news (because we were planning to move back) and I've read NOTHING about these incidents. Nothing! Yet the managerial association of the area was clearly discussing MANY violent incidents "at places of residence" in an area you would think is so safe. I was, and I am, still shocked and disappointed.

My point? Tourists to the Cape, living in a hotel, can be very safe on vacation if they use big city common sense. But if you live 24/7 in an up market suburban area then the driveway hijacking and armed home invasion risk is much much higher than most other countries. The Cape is still safe by SA standards, but the trend is going in the wrong direction I think in terms of certain violent crimes. Overall crime is down but the stats can be misleading.

I've also read annual stats from several police stations that service *mainly* middle class and/or up market areas (e.g. Durbanville, Claremont) and there appears to me more and more what they term aggravated robbery at place of residence (that's the term for a home invasion) and hijacking at place of residence (that's the term for a driveway car jacking).

To the tourists: go to Cape Town and ENJOY it. It really is a beautiful city. Use common sense and you should be safe. It's no worse than any big city. But I'm having serious second thoughts on living there again. This is not coming from a negative anti-SAn trying to justify why I left. I WANT TO RETURN TO CAPE TOWN and we can afford to return. Nothing is forcing to stay outside CT. We miss the place and financially speaking (with the dollars we have) we could buy a top home cash there. All our family is there. It's tempting to go back. But some recent research has scared me.


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## Daxk (Jan 20, 2008)

Julian, Good post.
I have found very few "Doomsayers" who would not bounce up and down with joy if SA were to be sorted out and be safer than it is.
A lot of us,especiallly myself, still have major family there who cannot leave (or in my mothers case,feels that starting over at 80 when she still has Children,grandchildren etc who cannot leave) and at risk.
For a number of reasons, I still get emails from governing bodies/Body Corporates Minutes of meetings, am still subscribed to Community Policing Forums newsletters and also know that unlesss there is blood, it wont appear in the press.
This has been caused by a request from Govt as well as pressure from the Estate Agencies not to "Sensationalise" crime in an area.

A new suggestion has been made that the press also sometimes post "Inconsequential" crime stories, ie a School lost some computers, a hawker left his days takings in a taxi etc.
and Jeremy mansfield fell for the trick recently.

I dont need to justify my leaving, I would be back tomorrow if it were safe to raise a 10 year old daughter there.
Its not.


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## JulianQ101 (Jul 17, 2009)

Daxk said:


> ...For a number of reasons, I still get emails from governing bodies/Body Corporates Minutes of meetings, am still subscribed to Community Policing Forums newsletters and also know that unlesss there is blood, it wont appear in the press...


I am sad to say, but I think you are correct. Like I mentioned, I regularly read the Cape news and nothing was mentioned when, in fact, there were several driveway jackings and home invasions in 2007 and 2008. The neighbourhood that I am talking about is the last place you would expect even one single event - let alone several of them... I am *assuming* that because nobody got killed, it never made the news. All I can say is wow! The members of the meeting listed the incidents are "violent" so the occupants were probably beaten up etc, etc. And most criminologists agree that rape is very under reported. I shudder at the thought. So my concern is that there could be many dangerous and life altering events happening in regular suburbs that are going unreported in the news.

If I had not read the meeting notes from the body corporate, I would have 100% bought a house there, thinking it was a super safe area to live and raise a family. I am assuming things could be similar in many other suburbs then. 

The question my wife and I are grappling with is how do we actually measure the risk. Yes, despite the risks, we do want to return. But moving back is beginning to feel like buying a lottery ticket, except the odds are in the wrong direction. Someone once said that ignorance is bliss. The more I'm digging and learning, the less we want to go back.


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## SABrits (Jul 13, 2009)

Are you moving with no assistance? If you are with a Provider, ask them to assist you - it should be part of your package.


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## Daxk (Jan 20, 2008)

Julian, it IS a lottery.
In all honesty, you could live there forever and have nothing more irritating than the "petty" crimes I mentioned. 
Also, CT IS safer than Jhbg, the Unisa crime report shows that 50% of the 50,000 odd Home invasions that happened were in Gauteng, and it depends on your risk acceptance, If I did'nt have children I would probably still be in SA, but my checklist made it unacceptable.

I had no intention of saying "If Only..."


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## Daxk (Jan 20, 2008)

SABrits said:


> Are you moving with no assistance? If you are with a Provider, ask them to assist you - it should be part of your package.


Explain what a providor is?
Is it someone who can guarantee that nothing will happen?


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## capepamela (Jun 22, 2009)

bretongreen said:


> Hello
> I will be moving my family to Capetown from the US and will love advice on where we can live that is very secured and schools the children can go to, they are 13,11, and 7 years of Age.My wife and I are both Medical Doctors.
> Thanks
> Breton


Hi, Seeing as how this is quite an old post and most postings seem directed at other posts rather than a reply to you...you probably gave up on this ages ago. Hopefully you are happily settled in Cape Town with your family! If not, and you still want input...take into consideration if you are willing to learn Afrikaans. The northern suburbs, as in the Durbanville suggestion, are really nice and some have great family neighborhoods...but it is much stronger in Afrikaans speakers and weaker in English speakers. Definitely a consideration if your kids will be put into public schools. Our kids are learning both Afrikaans and Xhosa in the S suburgs, but English is the majority language in Pinelands where we are and that makes shopping and getting service much easier for us. If you plan to stay several years...it may not matter as you should strive to learn languages and immersion will make it easier.


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## JulianQ101 (Jul 17, 2009)

capepamela said:


> ...take into consideration if you are willing to learn Afrikaans. The northern suburbs, as in the Durbanville suggestion, are really nice and some have great family neighborhoods...but it is much stronger in Afrikaans speakers and weaker in English speakers. Definitely a consideration if your kids will be put into public schools...


I was born and raised in the English southern suburbs of Cape Town and always shared the perception that the northern suburbs was very Afrikaans. We called it the boerewors curtain.

My wife and I (both english speakers) eventually moved to Durnbanville and lived there for 5 years. While it is more Afrikaans than the southern suburbs, I was surprised at how many English speakers were moving there. The public schools all had dedicated English classes and the classes were 100% full. 

In my opinion, you can easily live in the northern suburbs - Durbanville in particular - and not need to learn Afrikaans. Yes, it's better to be bilingual, but not essential these days.


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## Thatch22 (Aug 12, 2009)

We are not living here in fear in SA. It is good to live here. And I sleep well.
I know a lot of places in the world where I donot want to be, even during the day!

In aussieland you have murder and rape too....


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