# What happens if I don't apply for the TIE? I only want residency so I can stay in the EU for a year.



## WanderingAgent (Jul 9, 2021)

I have already been approved for the non-lucrative visa in Spain. I'm supposed to pick it up soon. I don't actually plan on staying long term in Spain since I'm not willing to pay taxes, but I do want longer access than the 90 day limit to the EU. I'm hoping to get a couple things cleared up from knowledgeable people.

Scenario 1: I pick up the visa and go to Spain and complete the process and get the TIE card... and then leave and start touring the EU for remainder of the year long residency.

Is not paying taxes as simple as not staying more than 183 days or is there more involved?
I know I need a rental contract of at least 6 months to get a TIE. Would that legally tie me to the country even if I'm not there? How likely are they to read every word in the contract. I'll probably try to get one with an opt-out clause after 2 months lol
Scenario 2: I pick up the visa and go to Spain BUT do not use the visa to enter Spain. Or simply go to a different EU country once I have the Visa in the passport.

What happens if I never apply for the TIE card?
Is the visa in the passport still valid if I do not complete the process in Spain?
Thanks!


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

Where are you from? Do you pay tax in that country? You seem to want to be a tourist in Europe for a year.?


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## WanderingAgent (Jul 9, 2021)

kaipa said:


> Where are you from? Do you pay tax in that country? You seem to want to be a tourist in Europe for a year.?


I'm from the US and pay taxes in the US. Yeah I guess you can say I want to be a tourist for a year. But I see no other way to do it without a residence visa of some sort. But obviously want to avoid taxes. I'm trying to make the correct decision on whether or not I pick up the visa next week.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

WanderingAgent said:


> I have already been approved for the non-lucrative visa in Spain. I'm supposed to pick it up soon. I don't actually plan on staying long term in Spain since I'm not willing to pay taxes, but I do want longer access than the 90 day limit to the EU. I'm hoping to get a couple things cleared up from knowledgeable people.
> 
> Scenario 1: I pick up the visa and go to Spain and complete the process and get the TIE card... and then leave and start touring the EU for remainder of the year long residency.
> 
> ...


The visa ONLY allows entry.

To remain for a year you MUST have a TIE & must apply for it within 90 days of arrival.

If you don't, you aren't resident & the 90/180 rule applies, & you would have to leave after 90 days

Even with TIE/residency in Spain, the 90/180 applies for the rest of the Schengen zone.


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

WanderingAgent said:


> I'm from the US and pay taxes in the US. Yeah I guess you can say I want to be a tourist for a year. But I see no other way to do it without a residence visa of some sort. But obviously want to avoid taxes. I'm trying to make the correct decision on whether or not I pick up the visa next week.


Presumably they will stamp your passport if you moved from country to country meaning your Visa would do you no good as it will be valid only for Spain. In theory if you arrived soon you could avoid tax for 2021. If you then stayed only Jan- june you could avoid 183 day so avoid tax for 2022 too. If you dont register I cant see them really picking you up especially if you dont have property here. Make sure you pay US taxes for the time you are away because if you haven't the Spanish could then by default claim you moved your centre of financial interest to Spain and tax you this way.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

kaipa said:


> Presumably they will stamp your passport if you moved from country to country meaning your Visa would do you no good as it will be valid only for Spain. In theory if you arrived soon you could avoid tax for 2021. If you then stayed only Jan- june you could avoid 183 day so avoid tax for 2022 too. If you dont register I cant see them really picking you up especially if you dont have property here. Make sure you pay US taxes for the time you are away because if you haven't the Spanish could then by default claim you moved your centre of financial interest to Spain and tax you this way.


Tax issues aside, if the OP doesn't register for a TIE & stays more than 90 days, they will be an overstayer & that will be picked up when they leave, with the possibility of a fine, & even a ban from re-entering the Schengen zone.


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## WanderingAgent (Jul 9, 2021)

Good information I'm getting. For more clarity, I've been working remotely for the last 3 years and have not been in the any country more than 183 days. By default I pay taxes in the US of course but have been sure not to stay long enough to be tax liable in another country. 

What I'm thinking is that even though the 90/180 rule would apply to the EU if I got the TIE, I would still have 6 months basically to use in the EU outside of Spain within that year. I'd just have to make sure I didn't cross the 183 day mark in Spain. So the question is, if it got the TIE and executed this plan, how much trouble would it be to just walk away at like day 180 or so? And that day would likely be at the end of the year period as I'd split the time doing something like a month in Spain and then a month out of Spain. Outside of the initial tax form required to get the TIE, I wouldn't plan on actually filing any taxes after that.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

You may get away for the first year, but for the second and subsequent year, you need to reapply for NLV and you are disqualified for extension if you haven't spent at least 6 months in Spain each year.


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

WanderingAgent said:


> Good information I'm getting. For more clarity, I've been working remotely for the last 3 years and have not been in the any country more than 183 days. By default I pay taxes in the US of course but have been sure not to stay long enough to be tax liable in another country.
> 
> What I'm thinking is that even though the 90/180 rule would apply to the EU if I got the TIE, I would still have 6 months basically to use in the EU outside of Spain within that year. I'd just have to make sure I didn't cross the 183 day mark in Spain. So the question is, if it got the TIE and executed this plan, how much trouble would it be to just walk away at like day 180 or so? And that day would likely be at the end of the year period as I'd split the time doing something like a month in Spain and then a month out of Spain. Outside of the initial tax form required to get the TIE, I wouldn't plan on actually filing any taxes after that.


Are you planning on working for the year?


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## WanderingAgent (Jul 9, 2021)

kaipa said:


> Are you planning on working for the year?


Yes I plan on continuing the same remote work. I wouldn't do anything for a company in the EU though.


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## Barriej (Jul 23, 2012)

WanderingAgent said:


> I have already been approved for the non-lucrative visa in Spain. I'm supposed to pick it up soon. I don't actually plan on staying long term in Spain since I'm not willing to pay taxes, but I do want longer access than the 90 day limit to the EU. I'm hoping to get a couple things cleared up from knowledgeable people.
> 
> Scenario 1: I pick up the visa and go to Spain and complete the process and get the TIE card... and then leave and start touring the EU for remainder of the year long residency.
> 
> ...


From what I know of the NLV from the couple of people I know (one american couple and a workmate who is Canadian). The visa is only for Spain. Some (if not all Consulates also stipulate you cannot work, even remotely, but we don't want to get into that again)
You must apply for residency within 90 days of arrival. If you don't then you have broken the main clause of the visa. (don't know if they will come looking for you but when you try to leave I would expect trouble) as you would be considered an overstayer.
I also think you must enter the EU via the country stated on the Visa. (which may be a paper one attached to your passport and an electronic one which come up when you arrive when they scan your passport) You are I think asked to ensure you have two empty pages in your passport (I have lots of work visa's that are paper in mine)
You can however freely move around the EU as long as you don't spend more than 90 days in total within the block, so you are in the same position I am (NIE from the WA due to Brexit) and you are considered a tourist only and must return to the country you are LEGALLY resident in) We'll thats my understanding.

From your scenario 2 Its obvious that you don't have much of an idea how the system works.

1. The visa will be attached to your passport so by entering Spain this will be noted (also entering ANY other EU country would also flag up you have a visa via an NLV and you may be held if you arrive in any country other than Spain) again I can't confirm you will be stopped.
2. No Im going to bet if you fail to become resident after 3 months, you will be put on a list and you may get stopped if travelling anyway.

I do know that if caught when leaving you will either get a fine and or a ban from the EU (my Canadian friend went to France and over stayed his 90 days, he then tried flying to the UK and was fined because he overstayed, his passport was marked and this also affected his visa when he decided to come back to the EU to live in Spain permanently)


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## ALKB (Jan 20, 2012)

WanderingAgent said:


> Yes I plan on continuing the same remote work. I wouldn't do anything for a company in the EU though.


Spanish TIE or not, you will be a tourist in the rest of the EU and all the countries I looked into do not allow any kind of work - remote, paid, unpaid or otherwise as a tourist.
You are unlikely to be caught but it's still illegal.


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## WanderingAgent (Jul 9, 2021)

Barriej said:


> From what I know of the NLV from the couple of people I know (one american couple and a workmate who is Canadian). The visa is only for Spain. Some (if not all Consulates also stipulate you cannot work, even remotely, but we don't want to get into that again)
> You must apply for residency within 90 days of arrival. If you don't then you have broken the main clause of the visa. (don't know if they will come looking for you but when you try to leave I would expect trouble) as you would be considered an overstayer.
> I also think you must enter the EU via the country stated on the Visa. (which may be a paper one attached to your passport and an electronic one which come up when you arrive when they scan your passport) You are I think asked to ensure you have two empty pages in your passport (I have lots of work visa's that are paper in mine)
> You can however freely move around the EU as long as you don't spend more than 90 days in total within the block, so you are in the same position I am (NIE from the WA due to Brexit) and you are considered a tourist only and must return to the country you are LEGALLY resident in) We'll thats my understanding.
> ...


Yeah I think with what I'm reading I would need to get the TIE in order to not jeopardize my future visitation rights to the EU. So now the question goes back to avoiding taxes. Sorry to repeat but I'll post this part again since it appears to be the only solution.. if it worked out..

What I'm thinking is that even though the 90/180 rule would apply to the EU if I got the TIE, I would still have 6 months basically to use in the EU outside of Spain within that year. I'd just have to make sure I didn't cross the 183 day mark in Spain. So the question is, if it got the TIE and executed this plan, how much trouble would it be to just walk away at like day 180 or so? And that day would likely be at the end of the year period as I'd split the time doing something like a month in Spain and then a month out of Spain. Outside of the initial tax form required to get the TIE, I wouldn't plan on actually filing any taxes after that.


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## Barriej (Jul 23, 2012)

WanderingAgent said:


> Yeah I think with what I'm reading I would need to get the TIE in order to not jeopardize my future visitation rights to the EU. So now the question goes back to avoiding taxes. Sorry to repeat but I'll post this part again since it appears to be the only solution.. if it worked out..
> 
> What I'm thinking is that even though the 90/180 rule would apply to the EU if I got the TIE, I would still have 6 months basically to use in the EU outside of Spain within that year. I'd just have to make sure I didn't cross the 183 day mark in Spain. So the question is, if it got the TIE and executed this plan, how much trouble would it be to just walk away at like day 180 or so? And that day would likely be at the end of the year period as I'd split the time doing something like a month in Spain and then a month out of Spain. Outside of the initial tax form required to get the TIE, I wouldn't plan on actually filing any taxes after that.


So basically you want a free ride, to use the facilities a country offers (giving you a visa) but not to pay any tax in that country.
I bet you weren't honest enough to state that during your visa application.

Are you planning to be here for any length of time or is this just 'I want to see the EU for a year or so'?
In the first year you are not allowed to be out of the country for more than 6 months, and for the five years the Visa lasts for you (there are renewals at the end of the first year and the end of the third) so you can only be out of the country the visa is valid in, for 12 months in total.

If you come to spain to fulfil the visa requirements you MUST be here to ensure you become tax resident (or I hope so)
You don't think the people who make the rules are stupid. Or do you?

Yes you may get away with it, but I hope not and I also hope that if you do. Those in power change the rules thereafter to stop others from doing the same.

Hell I hate paying taxes, but it has to be done. The tax threshold here is a lot lower than the Uk. I and many others have decided to make this country our home, therefore we will pay what taxes we are expected to. So that the hospitals run, the schools are good etc. 

I hope the millions you save with the tax you will evade, will help you sleep better knowing you are not helping the country you will be living in.

No more comments from me. What you are proposing to do if frankly at best immoral so, do what you want.


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

I think the above poster is right. If you told the person what your plan was you wouldn't have been issued a visa as you clearly intend to work. If that is the case you are effectively trying to avoid paying tax in countries you intend to use for your benefits. I very much doubt you would be caught for tax things but you are clearly going to upset folk here who pay tax and work here even if for just a year.


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## WanderingAgent (Jul 9, 2021)

Barriej said:


> So basically you want a free ride, to use the facilities a country offers (giving you a visa) but not to pay any tax in that country.
> I bet you weren't honest enough to state that during your visa application.
> 
> Are you planning to be here for any length of time or is this just 'I want to see the EU for a year or so'?
> ...


I don't quite see this as a "free ride." Even if my plan executes to perfection, I would still be in Spain at least 5 and a half months within the year. That would mean paying rent while I'm there, private health insurance for the year, and all the other things that I would spend money on while there. And I'm not a permanent resident so no I would not have all the same benefits as you. I see nothing wrong with your support for the country but we have different views. I strongly believe that me being in the country and actually spending good money there is a great contribution for the visa that they provide. And if spain didn't see it that way then they wouldn't have made money in the bank the main factor to get the visa. I do not see double taxation of my assets while being a temp resident without full rights as an equal trade off.

It's not a requirement to be in the country for six months. That is a requirement only if you want to maintain the visa after the first year.


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

WanderingAgent said:


> I don't quite see this as a "free ride." Even if my plan executes to perfection, I would still be in Spain at least 5 and a half months within the year. That would mean paying rent while I'm there, private health insurance for the year, and all the other things that I would spend money on while there. And I'm not a permanent resident so no I would not have all the same benefits as you. I see nothing wrong with your support for the country but we have different views. I strongly believe that me being in the country and actually spending good money there is a great contribution for the visa that they provide. And if spain didn't see it that way then they wouldn't have made money in the bank the main factor to get the visa. I do not see double taxation of my assets while being a temp resident without full rights as an equal trade off.
> 
> It's not a requirement to be in the country for six months. That is a requirement only if you want to maintain the visa after the first year.


 However you have been granted a NLV which means you are not legally allowed to work- so that does cancel out any good you feel you will contribute.


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## WanderingAgent (Jul 9, 2021)

kaipa said:


> However you have been granted a NLV which means you are not legally allowed to work- so that does cancel out any good you feel you will contribute.


Whether I work or not doesn't change the amount of money I'd spend in the country. I would still spend the same amount.


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## jeff9 (May 19, 2021)

WanderingAgent said:


> Whether I work or not doesn't change the amount of money I'd spend in the country. I would still spend the same amount.


You are still breaking the NLV rules that you agreed to when you applied for the Visa. Additionally, when you get Visa you get a NIE number that is your tax ID so you will be expected from your entry point to pay taxes in Spain. I'm from USA and you are the type of person why some struggle to qualify. I have the money and will be in the wealth tax category so being on NLV is not a problem for me. I avoid these topics, but you seem to think you are not breaking the rules, which state you won't work.


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## WanderingAgent (Jul 9, 2021)

It's not work taxes that concern me. Considering the tax treaty with the US I'd be ok. It's the taxes on my assets (non work related, pension, etc) that I wouldn't want taxed by spain.


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## Relyat (Sep 29, 2013)

Short answer then: if you don't want to be taxed here, don't come here.


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## WanderingAgent (Jul 9, 2021)

I will say that I'm actually surprised at how strong the feelings are over a 100 percent victim-less twist of rules. I'm sure no one on here would argue that tourism money is very important to many countries, including Spain. So at what point does it become such a horrible thing to want to be a tourist longer?

Let's say I instead switch the visa to the remote work visa (can't remember the official name). At that point if I reached the end of the year with 5.5 months in Spain and 6 months in the other EU countries, I could walk away without having broken any laws. Because after getting the TIE, the rest of the rules only apply if you want to maintain the visa. Would I still be such a horrible person because I walked away before paying taxes on my assets?


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## Relyat (Sep 29, 2013)

Play by the rules, pay what you are supposed to pay and don't paint yourself as a victim.


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## WanderingAgent (Jul 9, 2021)

Relyat said:


> Play by the rules, pay what you are supposed to pay and don't paint yourself as a victim.


I don't know what you read but at what point have I painted myself as a victim? Saying I prefer not to do something isn't playing a victim card. And if the rules leave the door open for me to walk away before paying taxes then I haven't cheated anyone.


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## Relyat (Sep 29, 2013)

I'm sorry if my understanding was not the same as your intention. 
What you would like to do is the opposite of what this forum supports. 
I understand the argument that you don't want to pay for something that you won't use, but that's by the way. The services are provided for all. I hope that no misfortune befalls you, but if it does, the police or ambulance are there to help you. Of course, you understand all of this. 
As I've said, if you don't want to be taxed here, don't come here. If you do come here then pay your way. 
It's not pleasant to have someone ask for help to "twist" the law to their liking or evade their obligations.


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

You do know that once you collect your TIE you are a foreign resident and legally need to declare all foreign assests over 50.000 euros. Failure to do so incurs very large fines. So you will need to expose your financial situation to Spain for at least that year. It doesn't mean you are taxed on it but any movement or sale requires notification and could be taxed. There is no legal way to shield your financial situation from the Spanish tax man once you have residency.


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## WanderingAgent (Jul 9, 2021)

Relyat said:


> I'm sorry if my understanding was not the same as your intention.
> What you would like to do is the opposite of what this forum supports.
> I understand the argument that you don't want to pay for something that you won't use, but that's by the way. The services are provided for all. I hope that no misfortune befalls you, but if it does, the police or ambulance are there to help you. Of course, you understand all of this.
> As I've said, if you don't want to be taxed here, don't come here. If you do come here then pay your way.
> It's not pleasant to have someone ask for help to "twist" the law to their liking or evade their obligations.


I'll have to fault myself as well because I did directly say something like I wanted to twist the rules on my favor. But in reality I don't think that's what would actually happen. I would have to follow the rules required to receive the tie. Afterwards, the rules apply for anyone who plans to renew their residency. But if not, the consequence is just losing your residency after that year... assuming you don't stay longer than 183 days and try to flee without paying. So yes I am choosing the outcome that works best for me, but in no way would I be breaking any laws and going against the visa rules. This also assumes I switched to a remote work visa. But the ethicalness of doing it on a NLV is a different story. And also some may not agree, I do consider the money I would spend with 5 and a half months in the country a good contribution.


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## WanderingAgent (Jul 9, 2021)

kaipa said:


> You do know that once you collect your TIE you are a foreign resident and legally need to declare all foreign assests over 50.000 euros. Failure to do so incurs very large fines. So you will need to expose your financial situation to Spain for at least that year. It doesn't mean you are taxed on it but any movement or sale requires notification and could be taxed. There is no legal way to shield your financial situation from the Spanish tax man once you have residency.


I'm not trying to hide my financial situation. It doesn't bother me if they know everything I have. I just don't want to pay taxes on it lol


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

I suppose the question is: if you are absent from USA for a whole year do you need to inform them for tax purposes? Because it seems to me that you are effectively choosing your tax residency which is not an option. In the UK if you are no longer a resident you must inform them- this is a legal requirement and clearly has tax consequences.


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## WanderingAgent (Jul 9, 2021)

kaipa said:


> I suppose the question is: if you are absent from USA for a whole year do you need to inform them for tax purposes? Because it seems to me that you are effectively choosing your tax residency which is not an option. In the UK if you are no longer a resident you must inform them- this is a legal requirement and clearly has tax consequences.


It's different in the US if you're a citizen. Tax residency means nothing in that regard because the US is the only country, or one of very few countries that taxes their citizens even if they don't live in the US and all their income comes from a foreign country. In my particular case, I haven't been in any country, US included, more than 183 days in the last 3 years. I haven't notified the US about anything. But since my income is 100 percent US based I pay taxes there so it doesn't actually matter.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Then there's this...









At pre-trial hearings over alleged €14.5m tax fraud, Shakira presents expert report claiming presence in Spain was ‘sporadic’


An inspector has refuted the theories presented by the Colombian signer’s defense team to the Barcelona court, confirming that she was indeed resident in the country during the years in question




english.elpais.com


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## Barriej (Jul 23, 2012)

xabiaxica said:


> Then there's this...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I said I wouldn't comment again, but.

There was also a thread on one of the forums where a member had recieved the 'black' letter from the tax man here in Spain asking why he didn't pay any taxes the first year he was here (from memory like us, he arrived in the later stages of the year, so less than 183 days).
From the other comments it appeared that is a common occurrence and even if you are no longer resident they still ask for their pound of flesh (453g here in the EU) and you have to prove you didn't owe any. 

AS to the comment 'I work remotely' Not an excuse. If living here in Spain you are working here in Spain. It don't matter if you are working for the man in the moon. YOU are Conducting your work HERE.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Barriej said:


> I said I wouldn't comment again, but.
> 
> *There was also a thread on one of the forums* where a member had recieved the 'black' letter from the tax man here in Spain asking why he didn't pay any taxes the first year he was here (from memory like us, he arrived in the later stages of the year, so less than 183 days).
> From the other comments it appeared that is a common occurrence and even if you are no longer resident they still ask for their pound (453g here in the EU) and you have to prove you didn't owe any.
> ...


That was on here









Renta


For the past 6 years I've used a Gestor to submit my tax declaration, even after we moved I continued to use the same one. She has now informed me that she is no longer in business. I've seen here that at least one person has attended the tax office and had them complete the necessaries. Could...




www.expatforum.com













Resolution of Tax investigation


Update on my 2016 Black letter: I recently received an official registered letter from the Spanish tax man. The letter detailed full income from UK for 2016. It detailed mmoney from employer, and money from savings etc. The information was not provided by HMRC as they confirmed that no such...




www.expatforum.com


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## WanderingAgent (Jul 9, 2021)

xabiaxica said:


> Then there's this...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The very interesting part of this is the lawyer's attempt to say that her days away also count because she always returned to Spain. If that argument can successfully be used (I don't know the answer to that) it would kill my plan.


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## WanderingAgent (Jul 9, 2021)

Barriej said:


> I said I wouldn't comment again, but.
> 
> There was also a thread on one of the forums where a member had recieved the 'black' letter from the tax man here in Spain asking why he didn't pay any taxes the first year he was here (from memory like us, he arrived in the later stages of the year, so less than 183 days).
> From the other comments it appeared that is a common occurrence and even if you are no longer resident they still ask for their pound of flesh (453g here in the EU) and you have to prove you didn't owe any.
> ...


So are you saying that the 183 days is on a calendar year and not a fiscal year? I assumed it was like other countries where it is 183 days within the last 365 days, no matter when you came.

Me saying I work remotely wasn't an attempt to say that I shouldn't be taxed because the money isn't from Spain, that was me just describing the situation that allows me to live in different places.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

WanderingAgent said:


> So are you saying that the 183 days is on a calendar year and not a fiscal year? I assumed it was like other countries where it is 183 days within the last 365 days, no matter when you came.
> 
> Me saying I work remotely wasn't an attempt to say that I shouldn't be taxed because the money isn't from Spain, that was me just describing the situation that allows me to live in different places.


In Spain, as in most other countries (at least in Europe), you are taxed wherever YOU are when you do the work. It matters not where your clients are.

If you are resident in Spain & working while YOU are in Spain, Spain has first tax call on your income.

If you were to get a visa which allowed work - a self-employment visa for example, you would pay income tax quarterly, & make social security/autónomo payments monthly - from day one.


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## WanderingAgent (Jul 9, 2021)

xabiaxica said:


> In Spain, as in most other countries (at least in Europe), you are taxed wherever YOU are when you do the work. It matters not where your clients are.
> 
> If you are resident in Spain & working while YOU are in Spain, Spain has first tax call on your income.
> 
> If you were to get a visa which allowed work - a self-employment visa for example, you would pay income tax quarterly, & make social security/autónomo payments monthly - from day one.


There might be some confusion or misunderstanding, I'm not arguing against what your saying in the first 2 paragraphs. I'm aware of that fact. It's the same in many countries. 

As far as your last paragraph, are you saying with a visa that allows remote work you'd pay taxes on forum income from day 1 and they ignore the 183 days? Or simply that you have to file quarterly even if you owe nothing?


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

WanderingAgent said:


> There might be some confusion or misunderstanding, I'm not arguing against what your saying in the first 2 paragraphs. I'm aware of that fact. It's the same in many countries.
> 
> As far as your last paragraph, are you saying with a visa that allows remote work you'd pay taxes on forum income from day 1 and they ignore the 183 days? Or simply that you have to file quarterly even if you owe nothing?


You would file quartely & pay income tax on whatever you earned - plus autónomo payments.

When the end of year tax filing is done in May/June the following year - so May 2022 for tax year Jan to Dec 2021 for example, - any overpayment of tax is refunded.


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## tardigrade (May 23, 2021)

self employment here in Spain means to pay each month even if you do not earn anything. It starts off low but soon reaches €250,00+ a month, every month.


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## WanderingAgent (Jul 9, 2021)

xabiaxica said:


> You would file quartely & pay income tax on whatever you earned - plus autónomo payments.
> 
> When the end of year tax filing is done in May/June the following year - so May 2022 for tax year Jan to Dec 2021 for example, - any overpayment of tax is refunded.


I meant to say "foreign" income and not "forum." Cell phone autocorrect error. That interesting though. So in theory, if someone stayed 4 months while earning foreign income they would pay taxes right away, and then at the end of the year they would get that money refunded because they were there less than 183 days. Let's also say they officially stopped being a resident after 4 months to make it an official process. Is that what would happen?


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

WanderingAgent said:


> I meant to say "foreign" income and not "forum." Cell phone autocorrect error. That interesting though. So in theory, if someone stayed 4 months while earning foreign income they would pay taxes right away, and then at the end of the year they would get that money refunded because they were there less than 183 days. Let's also say they officially stopped being a resident after 4 months to make it an official process. Is that what would happen?


Nothing to with how long they were here.

The refund would be if they had overpaid tax over the course of the tax year.

They would still need a visa which permitted work, unless they were EU citizens.


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

Yes the posters are right. If you go with a work Visa it will require you to immediately register as autonomo which immediately opens you up to the tax man as you file quarterly. But also as soon as you register. So you will need to fill a tax form for the year. So in order to register you will give your NIE number and be assigned a tax number. You cant escape that unless you decide to go under the radar.
So basically if you are going to take residency in Spain you will have to pay tax. If you dont like that then dont come. There is no legal way for you avoid paying tax for the year. Whether you get caught is anyone's guess but what you propose is essentially illegal


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## WanderingAgent (Jul 9, 2021)

xabiaxica said:


> Nothing to with how long they were here.
> 
> The refund would be if they had overpaid tax over teh course of the tax year.
> 
> They would still need a visa which permitted work, unless they were EU citizens.


.. editing


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## WanderingAgent (Jul 9, 2021)

kaipa said:


> Yes the posters are right. If you go with a work Visa it will require you to immediately register as autonomo which immediately opens you up to the tax man as you file quarterly. But also as soon as you register. So you will need to fill a tax form for the year. So in order to register you will give your NIE number and be assigned a tax number. You cant escape that unless you decide to go under the radar.
> So basically if you are going to take residency in Spain you will have to pay tax. If you dont like that then dont come. There is no legal way for you avoid paying tax for the year. Whether you get caught is anyone's guess but what you propose is essentially illegal


So with this type of visa you pay taxes on your foreign income from day 1? Well that would change things a lot lol


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

WanderingAgent said:


> So with this type of visa you pay taxes on your foreign income from day 1? Well that would change things a lot lol


All self-employed in Spain pay tax from day one.


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## WanderingAgent (Jul 9, 2021)

xabiaxica said:


> All self-employed in Spain pay tax from day one.


They need a new emoji for the face I'm making right now lol.. I'll try though.... 😕
Ok so a self-employed visa is out of the question. And with the NLV, it sounds like I "might" still get a tax notice and then it would be my job to let them know (however that's done) that I don't owe taxes because I wasn't in the country the required time. That actually isn't that bad assuming its only proving that I stopped living there within x-amount of time. But as with everything else in life, you never know what can happen.


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