# Residency documents



## goodnight girl (Dec 14, 2019)

Hi, I'm sorry if variations of this have been done a million times before!

So I (UK national) lived in Spain for about 3 years, between 2016-19, at which point I was fully documented up (tarjeta NIE, tarjeta sanitaria, empadronamiento, etc). I also gave birth to my daughter in Spain towards the end of that time (although she is also only a UK national). Obviously I tried to get all of her documentation whilst we both lived there, but there are some things I didn't manage to get (mainly her NIE).

In 2019 we had to return to the UK for personal reasons, although it was always my intention to go back to Spain. Like others, I'm obviously concerned about the impact of both Brexit and COVID/border closures.

Basically, I just want clarification of the required documents and proof of residency, if we assume the borders are open at some point and I manage to cross them in time. Spanish bureaucracy is a bit baffling at the best of times, so I can only imagine it will get more so with Brexit and I want to be prepared. If I get back before January, from what I can gather I will need:

TIE for myself and my daughter
NIE for my daughter
New empadronamiento
Apparently a document to prove we arrived before the end of the transition period??

Is there anything else? Would I need to replace all of my old documents? Would my NIE number stay the same as before?

Also, although UK nationals have freedom of movement until the end of December, would we actually need to be in Spain by October to be covered by the Withdrawal Agreement (since you're a resident after 3 months)? Or can we move at the end of December with the intention of becoming resident and still be covered?


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## The Skipper (Nov 26, 2014)

goodnight girl said:


> Hi, I'm sorry if variations of this have been done a million times before!
> 
> So I (UK national) lived in Spain for about 3 years, between 2016-19, at which point I was fully documented up (tarjeta NIE, tarjeta sanitaria, empadronamiento, etc). I also gave birth to my daughter in Spain towards the end of that time (although she is also only a UK national). Obviously I tried to get all of her documentation whilst we both lived there, but there are some things I didn't manage to get (mainly her NIE).
> 
> ...


You may find this document helpful: https://system.newzapp.co.uk/editsi...dium=email&utm_campaign=854-WN-Jun20-ES-Javea


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

goodnight girl said:


> Hi, I'm sorry if variations of this have been done a million times before!
> 
> So I (UK national) lived in Spain for about 3 years, between 2016-19, at which point I was fully documented up (tarjeta NIE, tarjeta sanitaria, empadronamiento, etc). I also gave birth to my daughter in Spain towards the end of that time (although she is also only a UK national). Obviously I tried to get all of her documentation whilst we both lived there, but there are some things I didn't manage to get (mainly her NIE).
> 
> ...


Just to clarify, you say you have Tarjeta NIE - as this doesn't exist what do you mean?. It could be the green card (EU citizens) or it could be a TIE

If you are an EU citizen, then you certainly can't get a TIE - Spain hasn't yet decided what or when things might change in that regard.

If you have either a green card (residents card) or a TIE, then you won't need any other proof.

Yes, once you have found a new home, you will need to sign on the padron again.


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## goodnight girl (Dec 14, 2019)

Hi, thanks for the replies. Yes, I meant the green card that EU citizens have. But I thought I might need some other proof of residency because, well, I still have the card and I'm not currently a resident (having been outside of Spain for a year now). So if I returned in say, December 2020, I would just need the new empadronamiento and a green card for my daughter?


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

goodnight girl said:


> Hi, thanks for the replies. Yes, I meant the green card that EU citizens have. But I thought I might need some other proof of residency because, well, I still have the card and I'm not currently a resident (having been outside of Spain for a year now). So if I returned in say, December 2020, I would just need the new empadronamiento and a green card for my daughter?


Even though you've been out of the country for 12 months, it is unlikely that the authorities will know this.

Yes, you ought to get the green card for your daughter as soon as is possible - and new padrons for both.


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

snikpoh said:


> Even though you've been out of the country for 12 months, it is unlikely that the authorities will know this.
> 
> Yes, you ought to get the green card for your daughter as soon as is possible - and new padrons for both.


Being out of Spain for 12 months does not cancel your registration as a resident, so even if the authorities knew about it, it would be no issue. If you are away for 2 years, then it is deemed to have been cancelled.

What the OP needs to do however is change the address on the registration certificate as soon as she has a new address in Spain.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Overandout said:


> Being out of Spain for 12 months does not cancel your registration as a resident, so even if the authorities knew about it, it would be no issue. If you are away for 2 years, then it is deemed to have been cancelled.
> 
> What the OP needs to do however is change the address on the registration certificate as soon as she has a new address in Spain.


Just one caveat here.

The two years out of Spain applies to those deemed tyo be permanent residents - that is those who have been registered residents for 5 years. 


The OP doesn't fulfill that, going by the dates, in which case, leaving for just 6 months cancels residency.


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## Williams2 (Sep 15, 2013)

xabiaxica said:


> Just one caveat here.
> 
> The two years out of Spain applies to those deemed tyo be permanent residents - that is those who have been registered residents for 5 years.
> 
> ...


Just as a side note, I wonder how many Brits who have the Green Resident Card but have been here less than 5 years
( like the OP ) but spent the Winter months in the UK including Christmas & New Year, intending to get back to Spain by 
the end of March ( just before their 6 months out of Spain expired ) but thanks to the lockdown in the UK and Spain
find they have been absent from Spain for 8 or 9 months in the UK.

I assume they would have qualified as eligible for repatriation ( to Spain ) in the first instance and therefore would
have endeavoured to return if possible before their 6 months absence is up but there again they might also have
said they are in the 'high risk groups' from the virus and simply have 'stuck it out' in lockdown in the UK until it's
safer for them to return to Spain.

Therefore would they get a 'dispensation' from Spain due to the travel restrictions and State of Alarm; in so much 
as their unintended extra months from Spain is ignored, as if they returned on time before their 6 months
absence is noted and cancels their residency ??


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

There was a Royal decree issued in May extending any deadline or validity by 6 months from the end of the state of alarm on all immigration/residency matters.


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## goodnight girl (Dec 14, 2019)

Hi, and thanks again for the replies. For clarification, if we assume that my residency has been cancelled, what would I need to do to regain it before the end of the transition period? Is it still the same as was suggested before, just new empadronamientos and a green card for my daughter? Or would I need to live there for 3 months before the end of December? Or would I need to do that AND get a new green card for myself too?


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

No need to have lived in Spain for 3 months before the end of the implementation period. As before, you just need to have an intention to live longer than 3 months, so you can register as soon as you arrive. 
If residency has been cancelled (most unlikely, as stated above), just make a fresh submission with required documents.


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## Elpirata (Jul 5, 2020)

*Wrong info*



snikpoh said:


> Just to clarify, you say you have Tarjeta NIE - as this doesn't exist what do you mean?. It could be the green card (EU citizens) or it could be a TIE
> 
> If you are an EU citizen, then you certainly can't get a TIE - Spain hasn't yet decided what or when things might change in that regard.
> 
> ...


There is a NIE and is mentioned in official documentation and if you care to google it you will find it on Wikipedia. It is the same as DNI but for extranjeros. 

Hope this clears it up


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Elpirata said:


> There is a NIE and is mentioned in official documentation and if you care to google it you will find it on Wikipedia. It is the same as DNI but for extranjeros.
> 
> Hope this clears it up


The NIE is indeed an identity number for foreigners (Número de Identidad de Extranjero) number which appears on resident registration cards / certificates & TIEs.

However, the NIE itself, if applied for seperately, comes on a white sheet of A4 paper. There isn't a NIE *card* per se. 

If Wiki says otherwise, it's wrong.


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## MataMata (Nov 30, 2008)

Thinking out loud:

Presumably you have not done a Spanish tax return since you left in which case you could face some questions about where you've been. 

If you've done one in UK that could be construed as meaning that you no longer regarded yourself as Spanish


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

snikpoh said:


> Just to clarify, you say you have Tarjeta NIE - as this doesn't exist what do you mean?. It could be the green card (EU citizens) or it could be a TIE
> 
> If you are an EU citizen, then you certainly can't get a TIE - Spain hasn't yet decided what or when things might change in that regard.
> 
> ...





Elpirata said:


> There is a NIE and is mentioned in official documentation and if you care to google it you will find it on Wikipedia. It is the same as DNI but for extranjeros.
> 
> Hope this clears it up


As you can see the doubt was not about NIE or not.; it was the idea of having an NIE card "tarjeta"


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## goodnight girl (Dec 14, 2019)

MataMata said:


> Thinking out loud:
> 
> Presumably you have not done a Spanish tax return since you left in which case you could face some questions about where you've been.
> 
> If you've done one in UK that could be construed as meaning that you no longer regarded yourself as Spanish


Yes it's true that I haven't paid tax in Spain for a while, but I haven't in the UK either because I had a baby and have been looking after her (I lost my job when I was pregnant). She's a bit older now and I'd like to work again, but if I wanted to lie about it (thinking out loud myself), I guess I'd use that as an excuse... Not sure how that would fly though! (I'm not really planning on lying BTW.)

Anyway I'm resurrecting the thread because I've noticed that Britons are required to get the TIE now and I have some questions again...

So I read through most of the thread on here about the TIE, but a lot of people discussing it on the thread seemed to have permanent residency and I don't/didn't.

So, to clarify again, as I have the green card which does not say 'permanent', and which may or may not have become void, I would need to get the TIE, and submit the same kind of documents that I needed for the NIE? Empadronamiento, proof of income, everything like that?

My daughter does not have the green card, so does she still need one now? Or does she just apply straight for the TIE? What documents would she need for that? I haven't seen information about this, is it just my TIE application and her Libro de Familia?

I know I can apply for a NIE number for her whilst in the UK, would this be a good idea or would it be better to do it all in Spain?

I'm very stressed about this, I haven't even managed to make it back to Spain yet! So the main thing is, we are physically in Spain on December 31st, and we have until June of 2021 to sort out paperwork, is that right?


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

There is no green card anymore. Well, there is, but not for British citizens, all new immigrants from Britain will now apply for a TIE instead of registering as an EU resident in Spain.

The requirements for a TIE are virtually the same as for registering as an EU resident until 31st December, after which they will change to be the same as for every other TIE applicant.

If you want to take advantage of this offer, you need to be living in Spain, and have applied for the TIE by 31st December.


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

It is difficult to say if you will have been removed from the register given that you say you left in 2019. You will need to do the padron again and you should use the same address on your green card to possibly avoid questions. The fact that your child doesn't have any registration may also cause problems. Do you have a Spanish birth certificate for her? Surely if she were born here and you lived legally before she should be registered for healthcare? Didn't you need some kind of identification number to do that? I don't think the tax thing will raise issues at this stage but will definitely when you make your next tax declaration as your green card has a tax code for you and your accountant will ask to see previous modelo 100s to check information. 
All in all you are lying if you are insisting that you have completed 4 consecutive years but that's up to you. Having said that you now say you cant be here for 31Dec etc. But note you must start process before Dec31 but then you have a month to complete the next part not 6 months in which you can return to uk. In short, if you want to get registered you need to be living here full time from Dec 31st . Everything else is technically illegal although there will always be loop holes.


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

Okay I see I misread your post. You say you will be in Spain before 31st Dec. Basically you dont need to do anything. You have a green card so you dont need a TIE. The problem will be your healthcare. If you worked to get healthcare through a contract I am led to believe that gets cancelled after 3 months. If you had autonomo I imagine the same happens not sure. If you had private or convenio then those will have lapsed. So not sure how you get round that. If your child is just a baby then as long as you are registered nothing will happen with respect to Dec31st as children have right to be with parents/ school/ healthcare but you will be advised to register as soon as possible.


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## goodnight girl (Dec 14, 2019)

Okay I'm confused...

So I need to be living in Spain by the end of the year. Fine. 
But if I need to have applied for the TIE before the end of the year (do I need to apply for the TIE??), surely I would need to have moved before December 31st?

(I did register my daughter's birth by the way! I was not trying to keep her off the radar or anything like that, but I didn't manage to get her NIE for reasons I won't bore you with.)


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## goodnight girl (Dec 14, 2019)

Should I just assume that if I move back before December 31st, I need to renew all my old documents again? So new tarjeta sanitaria, empadronamiento, TIEs instead of NIEs?


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

It is confusing because at the moment you are not actually living in Spain and haven't for over a year. Strictly speaking then you should be doing the residency process all over again and to retain your WA rights that needs to be at the minimum started before the end of December and completed ( unless there are complications) within a month. However, you have admitted that in fact that you are not ready to move full time to spain which is the main problem. That said you have already registered previously and hope the authorities won't have noticed. I dont think any of us can help tell you what you should do as the bottom.line is you were to tell the authorities they would say you need to reapply and be living full time in Spain before 31st December


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

goodnight girl said:


> Should I just assume that if I move back before December 31st, I need to renew all my old documents again? So new tarjeta sanitaria, empadronamiento, TIEs instead of NIEs?


The TIE doesn't replace the NIE - they are quite separate. Your NIE will still be valid.

The TIE is a replacement for your green residency registration card/certificate


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

Do you have a green residency card/paper like one of these.? An NIE is simply a number not the right to live and work in Spain.

If you do not have one of these then you need to move before year end an apply for a new TIE fulfilling the current requirements for an EU citizen if you move after December 31st you will have to apply as a 3rd country national.

To move now you will need
Property deeds or rental contract
Sufficient funds for all applying which depends on the area
Private health insurance 
Certificate of padrón (but that seems to vary as well, so I could be wrong)

You will need an appointment to apply for a new TIE as that’s what they’re issuing now.

After December everything changes. 

The issue is, as I see it for you is simply exactly what paperwork do you actually have, as an NIE means nothing as even non residents can get an NIE.

To add, if you are below retirement age I’m uNsure how you renew a tarjeta de sanitaria.


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## goodnight girl (Dec 14, 2019)

It's not that I don't want to move back before the end of the year, but obviously in the middle of a pandemic it's quite difficult. I wanted to go over alone to get a flat sorted before I take my daughter, but at the moment I'd have to self-isolate for 2 weeks returning so I can't really.

Anyway, if I have to do the whole process all over again then fine, but I just want to be aware and fully-informed and that's why I started the thread. I guess it's extra confusing because at the beginning of the thread I didn't need a TIE but now I do?

(How would the whole process be completed in a month though? When I applied for the green card there were two appointments several months apart?)

The things I have are the green card, empadronamiento, social security number, tarjeta sanitaria, bank account.


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

I think people are not reading your initial post and so are perhaps explaining stuff you already know. Basically: come to Spain as soon as possible ( the virus is becoming very active again and the possibility of lockdowns in various regions is happening meaning it could be hard to complete the process). You have a NIE, green card, healthcare etc. With luck you should still be registered. Getting NIE for your child and registering etc can be done at any date as a child has the same rights as the resident parents and is not limited by Brexit. Personally I cant understand how you could have given birth in Spain but not have had to get a NIE for the child. How is the child formally registered as born in Spain. ?It cant be by passport!
If you find that you are not registered ( Go to your central salud and check if your SIP card works , is a start. If that is cancelled then your registration may be) then you will need to jump through the hoops again in terms of income, healthcare etc.


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## goodnight girl (Dec 14, 2019)

kaipa said:


> How is the child formally registered as born in Spain. ?It cant be by passport!


Thanks for your post, it's helpful. But I'm a bit confused about what you mean here? I was able to register her birth in Spain and get her birth certificate (Libro de Familia) because she was born in Spain. She was given a social security number when she was born too. You have to register a birth within a few days - no way would I have been able to arrange a NIE/green card for her a few days post-birth! 

As for why I didn't in the time she was there, a few reasons. We were told I wouldn't be able to use my green card to get her's because I was unemployed, so we would need to use her father's - but her father was also in the process of getting his and did not have it at the time. I also started having problems with domestic violence after her birth, and that got in the way of things to be honest, hence why I had to return to the UK.


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

Ok. Clutching at straws here: is the father Spanish? If so then obviously your child could just claim Spanish nationality. If the father is an EU citizen post dec31 then again thd child could claim a EU nationality. Other than that ( as long as your residency is still active ) it shouldn't be a big problem getting a NIE etc for your child post dec 31 as your child would have EU rights to reside with the custodian parent.

Just one thought: are you able to support yourself and your child in Spain? If you are a single parent then it is very difficult without extended family. Maybe you have savings but if not how are you going to be able to work(plus a job that would cover the costs). You have lived here before so I assume that you are aware of the way the system has developed in relation to families and their core role in society. Unlike the UK single parents( alone) in Spain is rare and therefore quite precarious.


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## goodnight girl (Dec 14, 2019)

No, the father is British in Spain. He is still at the same address there, but for obvious reasons we won't be moving back in with him, so that seems a non-starter, hence why I didn't mention him previously.


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

goodnight girl said:


> No, the father is British in Spain. He is still at the same address there, but for obvious reasons we won't be moving back in with him, so that seems a non-starter, hence why I didn't mention him previously.


Fair enough. And I take it then you wont be looking for work if your child is still very young?


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## goodnight girl (Dec 14, 2019)

I'm looking for work now.


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