# Next door flat is a dog's WC - literally



## chrisnation (Mar 2, 2009)

The flat next to mine, in Valencia city, has a middle sized dog living in it 24/7. The owner of the dog and 'occupier' [in whatever capacity] of the flat lives mostly elsewhere. She comes to the flat briefly most days - but not every day - just to feed the dog. 

She _very rarely _takes it out. Sometimes she lets it out of the flat. It rockets down the stairs and usually deposits a large lake and barker's nest in the lobby. The owner has never yet been known to clean up after this has happened.

The smell coming from this flat is just abominable. One of her windows onto the lightwell, adjacent to my salon/comedor windows, is open. The stench is beyond awful. I can't open my windows because of it.

The police did break in to this flat, some months ago. Their report, judged on the state of the place, included the assessment that the woman was not a fit person to keep animals [there was a cat, then, too] and was clearly in need to help from the social services. There is no electricity in this flat.

The police called the animal welfare squad. Just as they were about to remove the cat and dog, the woman's son turned up and declared he would be responsible for the animals. The animal squad left without them, the animals stayed put and the situation has remained unchanged. Unlike the RSPCA, who act on what they see, not what they may be told, the Spanish animal welfare people accepted this man's assurance, which was worthless.

My problem is that my Spanish is not good enough to deal with a bureaucratic procedure like this.

Has anyone any idea about the public health/hygiene angle on this situation? My gestoria say we must call the police. Surely this is a matter for the health/hygiene people, not the police?


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

If the gestor says tell the police that's probably the best thing to do. It may well be that they are responsible for enforcing health and hygiene laws. Is there a Spanish or Spanish-speaking neighbour who can go with you?


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## chrisnation (Mar 2, 2009)

Alcalaina said:


> If the gestor says tell the police that's probably the best thing to do. It may well be that they are responsible for enforcing health and hygiene laws. Is there a Spanish or Spanish-speaking neighbour who can go with you?


Thanks for your rapid reply. My gestoria would ride shotgun with me. 

In fact it was she who called the police back-along, having been at my flat supervising the gas man for 2-3 hrs, listening to the dog barking and howling and me reporting that it was still doing so several hours after she had left. 

It's just that I find it difficult to twig that everything in Spain seems to involve the police. 

They came in the first instance because it was possible that the woman was still in there, ill or even dead. I had reported that the dog had been howling for 5 days non-stop. At about 01:00 the jolly lads from the bombers went at the door gang-busters. What the police found horrified them. But no corpses.

I know it's a bit dopey to say "in the UK ... " but the relevant departments do look after matters on their remit without recourse to the police unless violence or breaches of public order occur or are likely. 

More news as it comes in


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## steveng (Jul 4, 2016)

If the situation is that bad, surely it would be worth paying the gestor to speak to the police on your behalf? Gestor's aren't usually expensive and it would deal with the situation for you and make this poor animal's life more bearable?


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## chrisnation (Mar 2, 2009)

steveng said:


> If the situation is that bad, surely it would be worth paying the gestor to speak to the police on your behalf? Gestor's aren't usually expensive and it would deal with the situation for you and make this poor animal's life more bearable?


Steve, that is exactly what happened a few months ago. In fact she called the police off her own bat, on the animal welfare issue.

Looks like we might have to repeat the process. 

The problem seems to be that despite whatever the situation and conditions might be, if somebody tells the police that they will take responsibility for the animals on behalf of the owner, the police accept that, their report is not actioned and nothing further is done.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

The advantage of living in a small town is that you can go en masse to the mayor with this sort of problem and things do get actioned (though possibly not in August). I wish you luck, it's a horrible situation to be in.


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## chrisnation (Mar 2, 2009)

Alcalaina said:


> The advantage of living in a small town is that you can go en masse to the mayor with this sort of problem and things do get actioned (though possibly not in August). I wish you luck, it's a horrible situation to be in.


The co-owner of the management company for our building speaks good English. He has known of this issue since before I bought my flat 18 months years ago. He has tried to speak to the woman but she will not open the door to him. It seems she has mental health problems. 

He says that "she does not pay her bills", so she is in arrears already and we are all paying an extra €200 x 12 this year for reformar de la fachada. So she'll be another €2400 short. He is very keen to see the back of her.

He is stymied by the fact that, to make progress, he has to have el Presidente of our community sign some papers. She will not do this because she herself is in schtuck with sizeable arrears to the community fund. I think thin end of wedge may be in her mind.

El Presidente will be sacked in September. The new prez will sign the paper. The police report can be obtained for +/- €30. We may get somewhere then, esp if the mental health/public hygiene people can come on board, as well as the animal welfare.

Meantime my gestoria and I will have another go with the police. 

News just in .. I put a note on her door asking her to close the lightwell window because of the olor insufrible - and she has! I can't believe it! But it won't stay shut. She has washing lines outside it.

Imagine what it must be like in there!


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

chrisnation said:


> Meantime my gestoria and I will have another go with the police.


FYI - just to assist 

A GESTORIA is the building or office

A GESTOR or GESTORA is the person.


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## chrisnation (Mar 2, 2009)

Thank you.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

And it's "insoportable" not "insufrible". But she clearly understood!


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## chrisnation (Mar 2, 2009)

Alcalaina said:


> And it's "insoportable" not "insufrible". But she clearly understood!


According to Google translate [which is where I got it from] and my Slovoed dictionary, 'insufrible' is kosher. 'insoportable' is an acceptable synonym.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

chrisnation said:


> According to Google translate [which is where I got it from] and my Slovoed dictionary, 'insufrible' is kosher. 'insoportable' is an acceptable synonym.


I was just popping back to offer my apologies - I've just come across "insufrible" in a short story I'm reading (written in the late 19th century). But I swear I've never seen it before!


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## chrisnation (Mar 2, 2009)

chrisnation said:


> More news as it comes in


Just in case anyone else has something similar blighting their life, be it dogs or whatever - the latest from Stink City.

Bear in mind that since my original post in months past, the dog has continued to be confined and the accumulated ordure has obviously increased accordingly. The smell is indeed 'insufrible'. 

The Good News.

The Community President of last 2016-2017 has been sacked. She owes the community fund €2k and refused to co-operate with any issues affecting the community. Non-payment will, eventually, lead to eviction. I have reason to be cheerful at the prospect.

The new Pres is the Catholic Mission for Valencia, which occupies the ground floor of our building. The management company reports good relations with this organisation and progress with dealing with the issue of my neighbour, the owner of the dog, who is in need of 'social services' help because of her mental state.

The Bad News

The bad news is that, because of her mental state, my neighbour cannot be evicted for defaulting on community payments (owes €2300), unlike the previous Pres and two others, who owe +/- €2500 each.

One result of this situation is that, as there is no recourse to recover the arrears, failing a charitable or family payment, her arrears will have to be borne by the other residents.

How her future community payments are dealt with is a question I need to ask the management. 

Is there such a thing as sickness benefit in Spain? Does it apply to metal health and can it be long-term?

My neighbour owns her flat. It is vanishingly unlikely she will voluntarily give up the dog. The guy at the management company told me that Spanish animal welfare law is "not even close" to that in UK.

The only hope of improving the situation is if she receives regular and frequent visits, perhaps from the Mission downstairs, to improve her way of life and the state of her flat.

Meawhile, my gestora recommends we call the police - again. 

And I have, today, thrown money at a plug-in gizmo that takes aromatherpy oils and emits pleasant smells. If you can't beat it, hide it.


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## John Seigal (Oct 21, 2017)

chrisnation said:


> The only hope of improving the situation is if she receives regular and frequent visits, perhaps from the Mission downstairs, to improve her way of life and the state of her flat.


Why not YOU???? Would benefit you, her and the mutt as it seems you are stuck with the situation. 

The police have better things to occupy their time than a complaining neighbor about a "stink".


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## cermignano (Feb 9, 2017)

Is there not an equivalent of SPCA?


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## chrisnation (Mar 2, 2009)

John Seigal said:


> Why not YOU???? Would benefit you, her and the mutt as it seems you are stuck with the situation.
> 
> The police have better things to occupy their time than a complaining neighbor about a "stink".


Your reply indicates that you have not read earlier posts on this. 

As I have already said, I am surprised that issues that have nothing to do with law enforcement and criminal activity are still matters for the police in Spain. Your comment is exactly what I said before the police were called by my gestora. It is presumably a legacy of the police state that was the Franco regime.

Why not me? Because, as someone who has had to deal with clinical depression, I know that a kindly word and a nice cup of tea - or the Spanish equivalent - does not cut it.

This woman is in need of professional help. She is frequently incapably drunk. She lives - when in her flat - without electricity, as the police found when they broke in some months ago. 

She lives in a twilight zone of depression, alcoholism, filth and degradation. She possesses a dog as a barking machine. The filth on the floor in her flat results, when she opens the door and the dog, in hysterics, cannons out onto the landing, is **** being smeared all over the tiles. 

Why not me, indeed? Sorry - not qualified. How about you?


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

I really feel for you. It must be a nightmare.

Animal welfare is indeed a police matter (SEPRONA, a dept of the Guardia Civil). But the dog's life must be at risk for them to confiscate it, which it presumably isn't in this case. So your best bet is to focus on the woman, who is clearly at risk.

Your ayuntamiento must have a social services department. Perhaps someone from there could go and give her some support?


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

cermignano said:


> Is there not an equivalent of SPCA?


Not directly. There is PACMA, a political party focusing on animal rights, who sometimes take legal action against perpetrators of cruelty. It might be worth contacting them, though their resources are limited and possibly better spent trying to stop people setting fire to bulls' horns for fun.


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## Isobella (Oct 16, 2014)

What about speaking to local health dept re smell?


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## chrisnation (Mar 2, 2009)

Isobella said:


> What about speaking to local health dept re smell?


That is_ exactly _what I said to my gestora. But she said that the police have to be the first port of call. Why the police have to be involved in this sort of issue is what I find impossible to understand and, with due respect to the ways of Spanish governance, absurd.

To recap.

Some months ago she did call the police. They called the bomber boys, who broke through the door. The police looked round - the woman police officer was visibly shocked - and a report was filed, which included the statement that the woman was not a fit person to own an animal. No action has resulted from the police report, although, as well as the animal issue, the report stated that the woman was in need of social services welfare attention.

The animal welfare people were summoned. They were within_ mere moments _of leaving with the dog and cat when the woman's son appeared and vouched for the care of the animals. The animal welfare people left without them. This would not have been the case in UK. The RSPCA act on what they see on site, not promises of better behaviour.

Of course, nothing has changed one whit.

As the director of the building's management company told me, "Spanish animal welfare laws are not like the British - not even close". He told me that a good deal of money could be spent following up this report and involving the legal profession - to no end.

When my gestora come here next week, we will call the police again.

Watch this space.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

chrisnation said:


> That is_ exactly _what I said to my gestora. But she said that the police have to be the first port of call. Why the police have to be involved in this sort of issue is what I find impossible to understand and, with due respect to the ways of Spanish governance, absurd.
> 
> To recap.
> 
> ...


So the condition on which the animal{s} were left in situ has been reneged on, therefore it should be placed back with the Guardia Civil but not with the ordinary GC but with the Seprona Division who can and will take action.


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## chrisnation (Mar 2, 2009)

_So the condition on which the animal{s} were left in situ has been reneged on, therefore it should be placed back with the Guardia Civil but not with the ordinary GC but with the Seprona Division who can and will take action. _

That's an interesting suggestion. Thanks. It wasn't the GC who attended but the local VLC police. Maybe the GC can pick it up and run with it. Will have a go next week.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

chrisnation said:


> _So the condition on which the animal{s} were left in situ has been reneged on, therefore it should be placed back with the Guardia Civil but not with the ordinary GC but with the Seprona Division who can and will take action. _
> 
> That's an interesting suggestion. Thanks. It wasn't the GC who attended but the local VLC police. Maybe the GC can pick it up and run with it. Will have a go next week.


Policía Local are nothing much more than parking attendants and, as such, have very little power to do anything other than have you towed away if you park where you shouldn't.


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## chrisnation (Mar 2, 2009)

baldilocks said:


> So the condition on which the animal{s} were left in situ has been reneged on, therefore it should be placed back with the Guardia Civil but not with the ordinary GC but with the Seprona Division who can and will take action.





baldilocks said:


> Policía Local are nothing much more than parking attendants and, as such, have very little power to do anything other than have you towed away if you park where you shouldn't.


They still pack heat! I was once marched down a mountain in the Himalayas to an Army checkpoint by a gnarled old gent who appeared from under a piece of sacking. It was his Lee Enfield Mk IV, a splendid rifle that I had extensive experiece of, that brooked no argument. 

But your GC suggestion is well worth a punt.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

chrisnation said:


> They still pack heat! But your GC suggestion is well worth a punt.


If you mean they have guns, have you ever checked whether that have any ammo? Ours don't!


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## chrisnation (Mar 2, 2009)

baldilocks said:


> If you mean they have guns, have you ever checked whether that have any ammo? Ours don't!


The Clint Eastwood line about whether one feels lucky that day comes to mind ....


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

chrisnation said:


> The Clint Eastwood line about whether one feels lucky that day comes to mind ....


That's why you go to the GC and ask for Seprona or use the contact link from the GC webpage.


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## chrisnation (Mar 2, 2009)

baldilocks said:


> That's why you go to the GC and ask for Seprona or use the contact link from the GC webpage.


We will give it a go. We can't be any worse off than now.


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## chrisnation (Mar 2, 2009)

chrisnation said:


> We will give it a go. We can't be any worse off than now.



Update: Well, someone, some day, might find this sorry tale useful.

Monday morning, a nice policeman stuck a 'denunciación' on my neighbour's door! Local cops, too. The ones with guns but no ammo, according to Baldilocks.

A 'denunciación' on account of 'insalubridad en un inmeuble'.

_ Insalubridad_ is putting it mildly, seeing as how, since a two week interlude while the dog was elsewhere, from 17th Nov it has been past the door of that flat only long enough to bolt down two flights and lay a barker's nest in the lobby. I have the photo. You don't want to see it but some policeman or health official might - along with my collection of previous deposits.

All other business has been done in the flat. Oh Lor'! Que olor!

But the original police report of early May has evidently risen to the top of some in tray somewhere and we have some sort of process going. 

The nice policeman told me that the animals would be taken into animal welfare care, no question. We shall see.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Thanks for the update Chris. Sounds like the dog will be OK, finally - but what about the owner? Let's hope her family don't give her a puppy for Christmas!


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## chrisnation (Mar 2, 2009)

Alcalaina said:


> Thanks for the update Chris. Sounds like the dog will be OK, finally - but what about the owner? Let's hope her family don't give her a puppy for Christmas!


Did I mention she has cancer? She engaged me in conversation across adjacent windows in the lightwell a month or so ago. She showed me some unpleasant looking dressings on her abdomen ...

The dog was then taken elsewhere while she had a spell in hospital. Bliss! Three weeks of no-dog. Even the small statrted to abate a bit.

I thought maybe the penny had dropped and we had turned a corner. But sadly, it's back. And so is the filthy stink.

My gestora says that whatever department is dealing with this will check her flat to see how things are. They will be as bad as ever. She is not going to suddenly become a model dog owner, taking it out 2-3 times a day, cleaning up after it... signing up for an electricity account, even.

I just have to hope the dept doesn't get sold a dummy by her family, as they were last time. This one has got to stick.

And maybe the communidad can stipulate that this resident is unfit and so barred from keeping an animal. That is what the original police report stated.


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## chrisnation (Mar 2, 2009)

chrisnation said:


> Did I mention she has cancer? She engaged me in conversation across adjacent windows in the lightwell a month or so ago. She showed me some unpleasant looking dressings on her abdomen ...
> 
> The dog was then taken elsewhere while she had a spell in hospital. Bliss! Three weeks of no-dog. Even the small statrted to abate a bit.
> 
> ...


.... The End

Death has solved the problem. My vecina died of the cancer she was suffering. This was at some time during the mid March-mid July period I was back in UK. The dog has gone elsewhere. Her flat is being cleared. Time and the clearing-out have largely eliminated the terrible smell. 

The sad demise of my vecina has resulted in what a friend termed "a life changing event". This is no exaggeration. I went AWOL in the hope that the 'denuncia' would resolve things. Death intervened. That she died has closed the book with utter finality.


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## Melaine (Jun 23, 2016)

I’ve just been reading this thread. What a dramatic end to a sad story. Very sad for the lady and her family, but I’m glad your long ordeal is over


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

This story is just such a shame - the way that it impacted on your life, the poor dog and the poor woman who obviously just couldn't cope with life with or without the dog and with or without cancer. There _is_ help out there for people with cancer and there _is_ help for abused animals, but it's not so extended as in the UK, it's not so recognised and it's not foisted upon you through authorities as it might be at some stage in the UK.
Let's hope that this is a turning point in your life and you can just get on and enjoy your home now


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## chrisnation (Mar 2, 2009)

Pesky Wesky said:


> This story is just such a shame - the way that it impacted on your life, the poor dog and the poor woman who obviously just couldn't cope with life with or without the dog and with or without cancer. There _is_ help out there for people with cancer and there _is_ help for abused animals, but it's not so extended as in the UK, it's not so recognised and it's not foisted upon you through authorities as it might be at some stage in the UK.
> Let's hope that this is a turning point in your life and you can just get on and enjoy your home now


Pesky, thanks for your kind thoughts. True enough - this poor woman was largely left to her own devices. Not just the cancer but alcoholism and depression all compounded to make her life a living hell. 

And what about the vaunted Mediterranean way with families? How can they have allowed her to live_ sin luz_, in those conditions? To the extent that she was faced with a _denuncia_ of having _'una habitacion insalubridad_'. I learned from one of the guys clearing her flat that he had known her since they were both only knee high. Where was everybody?

What remains in my mind is how everything boiled down to the police. Animal welfare? Report it to the police. Public health problem? Tell the police. Spain was a police state and it looks to me as if far too much of it remains.

But, as you say, it really is a turning point for me. The guys with the Kangos and sledgehammers upstairs are going gangbusters. The walls of Jericho have nothing on what's coming down up there. But I don't mind a bit._ Los vecinos_ had to put up with my gang doing likewise and it means that another of these dog-eared, tired Franco-era flats will be made fit for 21stC life. And chances are it'll start up next door. Cheap flat in the heart of VLC anyone? My gang was ace. 

The fact that the first anniversary of the proposed start of the _reformar _of our _fachada_ has been and gone - with me €2400 lighter - and not a scaffold pole to be seen is another matter. 

Perhaps I must report it to the police


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Sorry, this issue had already been dealt with...


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

chrisnation said:


> Pesky, thanks for your kind thoughts. True enough - this poor woman was largely left to her own devices. Not just the cancer but alcoholism and depression all compounded to make her life a living hell.
> 
> And what about the vaunted Mediterranean way with families? How can they have allowed her to live_ sin luz_, in those conditions? To the extent that she was faced with a _denuncia_ of having _'una habitacion insalubridad_'. I learned from one of the guys clearing her flat that he had known her since they were both only knee high. Where was everybody?
> 
> ...


 I think Spanish family members are often more involved with family issues than in the UK, but that doesn't mean that they _always_ are, neither does it mean that all Spanish families have saints. Mental illness and is difficult to deal with and often impossible to reason with and I think you are sometimes in a hopeless situation. Your neighbour suffered from mental illness _and_ cancer _and_ she was an alcoholic. Who knows how much hurt and pain she (possibly unwittingly) caused in her family. Maybe she was just too much to deal with, or maybe the family was just callous and cold because of course those type of families exist in Spain too!


Anyway, time to move on to your next battle . - what's happened to the money?! Sounds like your life in Spain is anything but easy


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## chrisnation (Mar 2, 2009)

Pesky Wesky said:


> I think Spanish family members are often more involved with family issues than in the UK, but that doesn't mean that they _always_ are, neither does it mean that all Spanish families have saints. Mental illness and is difficult to deal with and often impossible to reason with and I think you are sometimes in a hopeless situation. Your neighbour suffered from mental illness _and_ cancer _and_ she was an alcoholic. Who knows how much hurt and pain she (possibly unwittingly) caused in her family. Maybe she was just too much to deal with, or maybe the family was just callous and cold because of course those type of families exist in Spain too!
> 
> 
> Anyway, time to move on to your next battle . - what's happened to the money?! Sounds like your life in Spain is anything but easy


"Maybe she was just too much to deal with" Quite so. As a techie friend of mine said, having told me he would no longer help a mutual friend with her IT problems "She's just so difficult to help"

But one of the problems with the fachada job is associated with my late vecina. The management company said that they had a significant short-fall of payments from residents. Vecina had paid no quarterly community charges and nothing of the supplementaries due for the roof repairs [2016] and the fachada fund [2017]. 

Others here have also paid nothing or not enough. One of these defaulters was appointed Persident of our community for 2016! Legal action is afoot, except that I understood that vecina was exempt from legal action becuse she was a Social Services case.

I presume that the debt of my vecina will be settled by the sale of her flat, tho' I believe that debts attached to property in Sp can be or are sold on with the property. 

So vecina may have left a legacy not so immediately obnoxious as a filthy smell but one that festers in the financial sphere!


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

chrisnation said:


> I presume that the debt of my vecina will be settled by the sale of her flat, tho' I believe that debts attached to property in Sp can be or are sold on with the property.


Yes, that's correct. When I bought my apartment last year, a certificate had to be provided by the administrators of the community to prove that the community fees had been paid up to date. If they were not, I suppose the buyer's lawyers would withold the sum owed from the purchase price of the apartment so that this debt could be settled.

Perhaps issues like this are something to think about if buying a bargain priced property in an older block, where maybe a proportion of the neighbours could have financial problems and therefore fall behind with payments which causes issues for the other occupants if things like major renovation works are delayed because some residents can't (or won't) pay for their shares.

I've just received the agenda for our community AGM and there is one apartment (luckily only one, out of 40) where the owner owes community fees which must go back nearly 4 years if their fees are the same as mine. There are a number of other minor debtors, but they only amount to 3 or 4 months owing -and in at least one case, I know the apartment is rented out and the tenant pays on time, so the owner has no excuse for not paying!


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

I'm glad we no longer live in a flat.


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