# Road trip: Albuquerque, NM to ?



## ThomasNeumann (Nov 21, 2015)

Hello, Everyone. I just registered today on ExpatForum and have been reading the Mexico forum with a growing enthusiasm to visit and, maybe, to live. First, a little about me:

I'm 53-years old. I live alone but for a beloved dog. I collect Social Security Disability benefits. And, I enjoy driving.

The last time I visited Mexico was in 1980 while I was serving in the U.S. Navy in San Diego, CA. Day/night trips to Tijuana for what you might expect from an 18-year old guy.

Anyway, I've got an inkling to get out of the U.S. with all of it's political nonsense. I've friends who live in other countries who've suggested I go somewhere else and experience living outside of the U.S. for a while. I'm feeling adventurous, but also pretty clueless about where to begin.

I'm not one for extremes in weather. If I could find someplace that was roughly 70-degrees day and night year-round, well, I'd probably more there and stay til I die. But I'm in no rush to get to the dying part so, moving right along 

I'm not bilingual but I'm happy to learn another language if and when that seems a good idea. Aside from having a reliable high-speed Internet connection, I don't require much from my surroundings.

I prefer calm over busy. As such, cities and tourist areas aren't what I'm looking for. I'm interested in healthy air (environment in general, but air in particular). No chronic health concerns at the moment and, hopefully, none in the future 

All that to, hopefully, share enough background and context for the gist of my post/question:

I'd like to take maybe 3-6 months and do a kind of road trip. Not so much a tourist thing, but a life-style thing. I'd be looking at places where I might like to live, but also exploring places just, as my friend suggested, to get out of the U.S. for a while and see the world through different eyes.

I have my passport in hand and I think I understand from some of the posts I've read so far that I can just get a 180-day visa at the border. I'll need to get some Mexico-based car insurance. Stay on toll roads. Don't drive at night. Check for pet-friendly motels. Keep pesos on hand but most of it stashed elsewhere for safety. I'm sure there's more I need to know and I intend to keep reading to discover those things.

While I continue learning all I can, I wonder if anyone would offer some places to go and/or routes to take, that might be a sensible road trip for a guy with a dog and a sense of adventure?

I'm in Albuquerque, NM, so if there are preferred border-crossing places, I'm certainly interested to know those.

Well, I guess that's about all for now. I hope this isn't too much to ask from a first-post. Thanks in advance for your help!


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## RVGRINGO (May 16, 2007)

You are correct on the 180 day tourist permit at the border. You also will need an Importada Temporal for your car and can also get that at the border, where you will also pay a deposit to insure that your car departs Mexico within the allotted 180 days. Neither are renewable in Mexico.
Your adventurous spirit is admirable, but your canine companion will restrict your options. Mexicans just don‘t travel with ‘mascotas‘ and hotels, restaurants and stores will generally not welcome them. Moteles de paso, or “no tell motels“ sometimes do accept them, but hotels that accept pets will be hard to find, making planning ahead more difficult. Other than that, you have a whole big beautiful country to explore and great food to experience. Note that cities tend to sprawl and the countryside is generally spectacular and rather devoid of homes outside of villages, some of whose inhabitants may not speak even Spanish. Adventure awaits....Enjoy.
Oh, yes. Pesos? ATM machines are everywhere; supermarkets, banks, municipal buildings, malls. Just notify your bank that you will be in Mexico and using your card. Maybe get a second one for a separate account.....just in case. Avoid using a credit card.


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

ThomasNeumann said:


> Hello, Everyone. I just registered today on ExpatForum and have been reading the Mexico forum with a growing enthusiasm to visit and, maybe, to live. First, a little about me:
> 
> I'm 53-years old. I live alone but for a beloved dog. I collect Social Security Disability benefits. And, I enjoy driving.
> 
> ...


You are to be complemented for doing your homework and reading and absorbing much of the standard suggestions that are given to newcomers. Thank you.

To address one of your comments, 70 F days year-round will be hard to find exactly. You will probably have to compromise on it being warmer occasionally or cooler occasionally. But essentially, if you stay up at higher elevations, 1500 to 2000 m (5000-7000 feet), you can get pretty close. On the low end of those ranges there will be some warmer days; on the high end there will be cooler days.


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## RickS (Aug 6, 2009)

Welcome! (writing while others were posting....)

Well, finding a place that is 70s "day and night and year-around" ain't gonna happen. But I suspect that you will be willing to deviate some from that if you can meet other of your desires.

'Anywhere on the coast' much past northern Baja is going to be hot and humid in the summer. Some places in the interior will be cold in the winter. Some folks decide to 'reside' in two places.... warmer coast in the winter and cooler highlands in the summer. There are probably a couple of places 'tho that would meet your stated desires pretty much year-around.

Taking your thoughts one by one:

+ Do not know Spanish (but willing to learn): you may want to start out somewhere where English is at least spoken by some and maybe Spanish is taught. This will limit where you start out (until you learn Spanish) but there are several places That would work.
+ High speed Internet: very much available in many places in Mexico and not just tourist spots or ****** hangouts. Test the speed before you settle into a casa 'tho as it can vary from neighborhood to neighborhood (generally because of poor wiring).
+ Calm over busy/healthy air: If you stay away from larger cities you'll get the better of both of these.... but DON'T expect anywhere in Mexico to have healthy air. The smaller the place or maybe closer to a coast with prevailing on-shore breezes will be better, but not all places coastal areas have good air because of power plants or agricultural 'burning'. 
+ 3-6 month 'road trip'. Good for you for looking around. Yes, you will get a Tourist Card (not called a visa) at any border crossing. You will also need to get a TIP.... Temporary Import Permit... for your vehicle, also generally available in the same or adjacent building where you will get your Tourist Card. Both will be for 180 days and both are pretty cheap. You will have to put up a 'deposit' when you get the TIP but that is refunded when you leave Mexico AND formally check out. Put the deposit on a US credit card (or pay cash if you wish, but....). There are many online places to get Mexican car insurance that will cost about $200 for the 180 days. If you need assistance with some sources, ask.
+ Traveling with a pet: I'm not the expert on this but you will probably want to have vet-check paperwork for when you cross. Many motels will allow pets but not all. Ask about that later too. 
+ Pesos: get a stash of them before crossing. Many/most folks use ATMs throughout Mexico to get a new supply. Rates are pretty good and your 'bank' may or may not charge you a fee for this or may refund the fee... mine does. Be SURE and notify your credit/debit card holder that you will be traveleing to/in Mexico and generally for what duration. Refrain from using your Credit card as much as possible due to potential fraud. 
+ Gas is much more expensive in Mexico and toll roads are becoming pretty expensive. But to get from A to Z, yes, drive the toll roads. But it is generally perfectly OK to venture off of them to get to a desired locale if that is all that is available. Just make sure that your 'desired locale' doesn't happen to be a well known drug cartel area. 
+ Route: Since you are in Albuquerque, looking at Baja Norte might not work in conjunction with a trip into the mainland. If you do wish to go there, I'd suggest somewhere around Ensenada might meed some of your desires. Personally I would suggest looking 'only' south of the Tropic of Cancer. And since you are where you are, El Paso would be the logical place to enter. If you do, use the crossing at Santa Teresa NM, a western suburb of E.P.
I'd check out the Pacific coast communities of/around Mazatlan, Puerto Vallarta and as far down as Manzanillo. I would also check out the one place that I think meets most all of your criteria... the Lake Chapala area just south of Guadalajara. Eternal Spring. Subtropical environs at 5,000 ft. 

There are other places of course. I suggest that you get a recent copy of a Lonely Planet and/or Moon Travel Book to make sure you don't miss something while on your travels.


I'll quit for now, but ask more if you need.


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## GARYJ65 (Feb 9, 2013)

I'm curious, what type of disability do you have? As you like driving, are 53 y.o. And are thinking about starting an adventure


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

GARYJ65 said:


> I'm curious, what type of disability do you have? As you like driving, are 53 y.o. And are thinking about starting an adventure


I don't think that's any of our business, Gary. I'm surprised you have asked such a personal question of Thomas.


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## GARYJ65 (Feb 9, 2013)

Isla Verde said:


> I don't think that's any of our business, Gary. I'm surprised you have asked such a personal question of Thomas.


He may as well not answer, as I said, I'm curious


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## ThomasNeumann (Nov 21, 2015)

Thank you all for your replies. What a wonderful resource this forum has been for me, and so quickly! 

A few replies to each of you follow:





RVGRINGO said:


> ... You also will need an Importada Temporal for your car and can also get that at the border, where you will also pay a deposit to insure that your car departs Mexico within the allotted 180 days. Neither are renewable in Mexico.
> 
> Your adventurous spirit is admirable, but your canine companion will restrict your options. ... Other than that, you have a whole big beautiful country to explore and great food to experience. Note that cities tend to sprawl and the countryside is generally spectacular....
> 
> ... notify your bank that you will be in Mexico and using your card. Maybe get a second one for a separate account.....just in case. Avoid using a credit card.


Thank you for these additional insights. Granted, traveling with my dog does impose limits on my experience. She's a rescue animal in whose well-being I'm invested for life. Over time, the 'rescue effect' has been somewhat reciprocal so despite the limitations of traveling with her, I cannot imagine doing otherwise.




TundraGreen said:


> ...70 F days year-round will be hard to find exactly. You will probably have to compromise on it being warmer occasionally or cooler occasionally. But essentially, if you stay up at higher elevations, 1500 to 2000 m (5000-7000 feet), you can get pretty close. On the low end of those ranges there will be some warmer days; on the high end there will be cooler days.


Noted, and thank you. Here in Albuquerque I live at 5,600 feet, and I'm less than 3-miles from the foothills of the Sandia mountain range, which climbs to just under 11,000 feet. This, for me, provides a pleasant range of experience. Rarely do summers climb above 100F (less than 5 days per year I think), and though we get some snow, it's usually just a few inches and lasts only a few days. I realize that's a far cry from my earlier note of an idea 70 year-round. I'll elaborate on that just a bit in my next segment of reply, below.





RickS said:


> ... 'Anywhere on the coast' much past northern Baja is going to be hot and humid in the summer. Some places in the interior will be cold in the winter. Some folks decide to 'reside' in two places.... warmer coast in the winter and cooler highlands in the summer. There are probably a couple of places 'tho that would meet your stated desires pretty much year-around.
> 
> ...
> 
> ...


Great points, and thanks for them.

I've considered the 'two places' strategy and if it was something I could afford to do in the U.S., I probably would. I'm glad you mentioned that point because depending on cost of living outside the U.S., maybe that's something I can manage after all.

Glad to know high-speed Internet is perhaps more widely available than I first imagined.

Not so glad to know about the air-quality, though. In particular, I'm interested in ozone concentrations and PM (particulate matter) concentrations. the U.S., the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) has monitors across the country that detect and measure these kinds of things. Is there anything like that in Mexico where I might find air quality data?

Thanks for the border entry and places-to-visit suggestions, too. I created a Google map to begin collecting places. Will look into the travel guides suggested as well. 

For general reference, here's a bit more about my thoughts on weather. Granted 70 year-round is almost certainly nowhere to be found. It's just an ideal, something to compare the more realistic options that may arise. Realistically, here's what I experience now:

Summers here are mostly overshadowed by monsoon conditions, which is to say that the dew point (rather than relative humidity) exceeds 50% through most of the summer. It seems that once temperatures climb above 80F where the dew point > 50%, I often wish that I lived elsewhere. At a dew point under 40%, even temps in the 90's (in the shade, mind you) feel quite pleasant to me.

That said, I'm surprisingly comfortable at cooler temperatures; cooler, but not cold. Generally speaking, I'd rather spend time at 60F than I would at 90F.

As a closing point of reference where weather is concerned, I sometimes describe my preference like this: if there was to be a regional power failure lasting for weeks or even longer, I want to live someplace where I'd neither freeze to death in the winters nor bake to death in the summers 

Again, no place is going to be 'perfect for me' but those are just a few additional points that may help others as they think about places that might be a good fit for me.





GARYJ65 said:


> I'm curious, what type of disability do you have? As you like driving, are 53 y.o. And are thinking about starting an adventure





Isla Verde said:


> I don't think that's any of our business, Gary. I'm surprised you have asked such a personal question of Thomas.


I can appreciate the curiosity, Gary, but as Isla pointed out, it is a rather personal question. I'm a pretty open person but for such a personal question to arise as the very first point of contact leaves me feeling uncomfortable. No offense taken, and none intended in reply.


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

ThomasNeumann said:


> > Originally Posted by GARYJ65
> > I'm curious, what type of disability do you have? As you like driving, are 53 y.o. And are thinking about starting an adventure
> 
> 
> ...


A very diplomatic response, Thomas!


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

ThomasNeumann said:


> As a closing point of reference where weather is concerned, I sometimes describe my preference like this: if there was to be a regional power failure lasting for weeks or even longer, I want to live someplace where I'd neither freeze to death in the winters nor bake to death in the summers


If that is your definition of preferred weather, you will find yourself quite happy in Mexico. Traditionally, Mexican houses were neither heated nor cooled. No one froze to death nor died of heat stroke. Near the coasts now, I suspect many, particularly those used to a country where heating/air conditioning is near universal, might find it pretty miserable without air conditioning. And, at the higher elevations in the mountains, many might find it pretty cold in the winter without some form of heat. However, there are many places in between where it is quite comfortable with neither artificial heating nor cooling.

As a corollary, you might note that most Mexican housing is not insulated nor even sealed to anything like the level that houses in more northern climes are. Thus residents are more nearly one with the outside temperature.

To cite my own case, I took that into consideration when I bought the house I now live in. I chose a house where the bedrooms all had a good southern exposure. Consequently, in the winter when the sun is lower in the southern sky, they get a lot of sun in the daytime. The thick adobe walls absorb this heat re-radiating it in the evening/night. Thus keeping the rooms comfortable throughout the day with no heating or cooling required except that provided by the sun. In the summer, when the sun is north of directly overhead at midday (much of Mexico is south of the Tropic of Cancer). The rooms are shielded and get little direct sun since they face south away from the summer sun. Again, they stay at moderate temperatures throughout the day.


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## GARYJ65 (Feb 9, 2013)

> I can appreciate the curiosity, Gary, but as Isla pointed out, it is a rather personal question. I'm a pretty open person but for such a personal question to arise as the very first point of contact leaves me feeling uncomfortable. No offense taken, and none intended in reply.


I didn't mean to make you uncomfortable, sorry. 
Hope you can make it to México and maybe we could meet. Saludos!


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## Hound Dog (Jan 18, 2009)

O.K. let's limit this to North America. There are lots of places in Africa, South America anD Asia that might meet your needs but let's limit our endeavor.

The best climates in North America arec in thec sub-tropics in Mexico at between 3,000 and 6,000 feet. At about 5,000 feet, with appropriate climatological enfluences, you will experience a splendid tempurature for humans approximating 70F more or less with insignificant variances. If you are in a rural or semi-rural área your air will be largely free of impurities. 

No matter what you may hear, the best climate in North America for agreeable ambiente tempurature and pleasant, unpolluted air is to be found along the shores of Lake Chapala at 5,000 feet.and this does not simply have to do with altitude but with that and the confluence of air flows delivering almost constant sunshine and blue skies. 

This boy sought to escape the heat and humidity of the U.S. Gulf Coast by moving to San Francisco's North Beach in the 1970s where clean air and 70F with almost constant sunshine was normal. If I tell you the weather at Lake Chapala, where I have lived for some 15 years is splendid, that's no no bullsh+t.


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

Hound Dog said:


> O.K. let's limit this to North America. There are lots of places in Africa, South America anD Asia that might meet your needs but let's limit our endeavor.
> 
> The best climates in North America arec in thec sub-tropics in Mexico at between 3,000 and 6,000 feet. At about 5,000 feet, with appropriate climatological enfluences, you will experience a splendid tempurature for humans approximating 70F more or less with insignificant variances. If you are in a rural or semi-rural área your air will be largely free of impurities.
> 
> No matter what you may hear, the best climate in North America for agreeable ambiente tempurature and pleasant, unpolluted air is to be found along the shores of Lake Chapala at 5,000 feet.and this does not simply have to do with altitude but with that and the confluence of air flows delivering almost constant sunshine and blue skies.


The best and worst thing about the shores of Lake Chapala are all the other foreigners living there. If your goal is to find a community of English speakers and a somewhat north-of-the-border ambiance, then Ajijic is your cup of tea. If not, then there are lots of other towns of varying size that have not been influenced by the northern invasion, but have equally delightful climates. As Hound Dog points out, the elevation drives the climate. If climate is the major concern, pick an elevation and go for it.


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

TundraGreen said:


> . . .As Hound Dog points out, the elevation drives the climate. If climate is the major concern, pick an elevation and go for it.


That's what I tell people who ask me about the weather in Mexico - it's the altitude, not the latitude!


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## Azuledos (Jan 21, 2010)

A good resource to check out when you plan your trip is the Geo-Mexico site. This is a link to their map of Mexico's Seven Climate Regions, but they have well over 100 other maps illustrating geographic and thematic features that can hone your search to the most promising places you might choose to explore. 

Personally, we used maps like this to find our retirement location at Fortín de las Flores, at 3000' elevation in western Veracruz. Here at the margins of the small, biologically diverse, cloud forest region, we enjoy an annual mean temperature of 69.6ºF (high 78.6º, low 60.8º). Coldest daily range we have seen is in the high 40's at night and bouncing back to mid-60's the next day, for a couple a days in late December. A few days in late spring might just break 100ºF – our home has neither supplementary heat or cooling, and is comfortable year-round that way. About half of the days of the year have some rainfall, mostly for a short period in the late afternoon or evening – this keeps the air clean as particulates and pollutants are washed from the sky so frequently. This “humid tropics” spot is an ideal home environment for us.

Good luck with your search and explorations!


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## Hound Dog (Jan 18, 2009)

Azuledos said:


> A good resource to check out when you plan your trip is the Geo-Mexico site. This is a link to their map of Mexico's Seven Climate Regions, but they have well over 100 other maps illustrating geographic and thematic features that can hone your search to the most promising places you might choose to explore.
> 
> Personally, we used maps like this to find our retirement location at Fortín de las Flores, at 3000' elevation in western Veracruz. Here at the margins of the small, biologically diverse, cloud forest region, we enjoy an annual mean temperature of 69.6ºF (high 78.6º, low 60.8º). Coldest daily range we have seen is in the high 40's at night and bouncing back to mid-60's the next day, for a couple a days in late December. A few days in late spring might just break 100ºF – our home has neither supplementary heat or cooling, and is comfortable year-round that way. About half of the days of the year have some rainfall, mostly for a short period in the late afternoon or evening – this keeps the air clean as particulates and pollutants are washed from the sky so frequently. This “humid tropics” spot is an ideal home environment for us.


Fortin (for those of you unaquainted with the región, is a small city located in the midst of the Orizaba-Cordoba urban zone as you enter the state of Veracruz from the state of Puebla at the foot of the high plain escarpmrnt where one descends from about 8,000 feet to near sea level and enters the Veracruz coastal plain), is a nice town. One of its most attractive features is that it is filled with splendid, unwalled gardens open to view by the passing motorist. We nearly moved there but found it, in our eyes, subject to a bit of chippi-chippi (incessant drizzle ) from Gulf Coast influences which we found disconcerting but to each his own. A damn fine and attractive town, nevertheless. 

Good luck with your search and explorations!


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## lagoloo (Apr 12, 2011)

I've lived in the Lake Chapala area for over 8 years now and have a very high opinion of this location, the clean air and the convenience of having the huge city of Guadalajara near enough to enjoy its resources, but far enough to be out of the air pollution and road congestion.
As far as it being heavily populated by expats, and of how many is too many, that's strictly a matter of opinion. When you drive down the streets, most of the people you will see are Mexicans, mostly born and raised here. It's also nice to know some people who share your history as a former U.S.A. resident. There are groups for every interest from art to golf. There are many opportunities to volunteer for charitable work. In both Chapala and Ajijic as well as other Lakeside villages, there are lakeside malecons (walkways) to share with your dog on outings. (On a leash, of course.)
There are plenty of opportunities to learn Spanish.

I'd suggest that you learn about the income requirements for permanent residency before possibly falling in love with Mexico and wanting to remain after your temporary permit runs out. One source of good information about the ins and outs of living in Mexico is the blogspot: My Life in Mexico


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## RVGRINGO (May 16, 2007)

At the end of a Residente Temporal, one may convert to Residente Permanente without the need for additional financial qualification. We did that.


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

RVGRINGO said:


> At the end of a Residente Temporal, one may convert to Residente Permanente without the need for additional financial qualification. We did that.


I think Iagoloo was referring to the income requirements for any visa after a tourist permit expires. Of course there is always the option of another tourist permit.


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## lagoloo (Apr 12, 2011)

TundraGreen said:


> I think Iagoloo was referring to the income requirements for any visa after a tourist permit expires. Of course there is always the option of another tourist permit.


Yes, that's what I'm referring to.


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## ThomasNeumann (Nov 21, 2015)

Azuledos said:


> A good resource to check out when you plan your trip is the Geo-Mexico site. ...they have well over 100 other maps illustrating geographic and thematic features that can hone your search to the most promising places you might choose to explore.


Thanks for that link, Azuledos. The Cw climate seems the closest match to the kind of weather I prefer. I'm going to explore whether a route that prefers Cw areas is possible.



Hound Dog said:


> No matter what you may hear, the best climate in North America for agreeable ambiente tempurature and pleasant, unpolluted air is to be found along the shores of Lake Chapala at 5,000 feet.and this does not simply have to do with altitude but with that and the confluence of air flows delivering almost constant sunshine and blue skies.





TundraGreen said:


> The best and worst thing about the shores of Lake Chapala are all the other foreigners living there. If your goal is to find a community of English speakers and a somewhat north-of-the-border ambiance, then Ajijic is your cup of tea. If not, then there are lots of other towns of varying size that have not been influenced by the northern invasion, but have equally delightful climates. As Hound Dog points out, the elevation drives the climate. If climate is the major concern, pick an elevation and go for it.





lagoloo said:


> I've lived in the Lake Chapala area for over 8 years now and have a very high opinion of this location....
> As far as it being heavily populated by expats, and of how many is too many, that's strictly a matter of opinion.


The three of you raise an interesting point: if I found a place where the weather suited me, how much of a U.S. 'vibe' do I prefer to be around? My gut tells me 'as little as possible' but I'll consider it further. Thank you for mentioning this.


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## lagoloo (Apr 12, 2011)

The "U.S.vibe" issue is a bit ironic right now with the San Andres festival (9 days of it) dominated by cohetes at 5 a.m., partying late into the night at the Plaza and few foreigners in evidence. 

How much of the U.S. Vibe is pretty much up to the individual moving there. Some people become fluent in Spanish and make a point of joining in events in the Mexican culture. Others go in the opposite direction and make a "little U.S." environment for themselves. Most wobble about in the middle. Lots of choices.

The weather, most would agree, is just about as good as it gets, for everyone.
As others have said, it's all about the elevation. At 5000 ft., you're likely to be very comfortable.


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## RVGRINGO (May 16, 2007)

At Chapala, weather is influenced by more than the elevation, as it is a true micro-climate moderated by the lake and its position between mountain ranges at even higher elevations. It is unique on this planet.


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