# Job Prospects



## lorac2412 (Jan 26, 2016)

Hi, we are currently selling our house and have been looking at Torrevieja to move to or Southern Spain near a town as we require work. I am 51 and my husband is 58. We both can put our hand to anything. At the moment my husband has a property management company. I am working in an estate agents and doing legal work. We also look after properties. What at the job prospects over there at the moment?


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Over four million Spaniards (and loads of other expats) are also looking for work and "will turn their hand to anything". What little work there is available is on insecure short-term contracts for very low wages. So unless you already know a lot of people who would be willing to let you manage their property, it would be very hard to build up a business from scratch - and as self-employed you have to pay €260 a month social security contributions (which includes your health care) even if you don't earn a penny.

Why not wait a few years and see if things improve?


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## lorac2412 (Jan 26, 2016)

Thank you for your response. Are there plenty of summer time jobs about in the main towns? We will have some money from the sale of the house so would only need a low income. Cheers.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

lorac2412 said:


> Thank you for your response. Are there plenty of summer time jobs about in the main towns? We will have some money from the sale of the house so would only need a low income. Cheers.


Not really, the seasonal jobs are mainly taken by over-qualified unemployed Spanish graduates who speak several languages!


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## lorac2412 (Jan 26, 2016)

Oh dear thats a shame. I was hoping there would be at least a few jobs that we could do to keep us busy. Guess we have to put up with the UK for a little longer or maybe come and rent for 6 months then come back to work here.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Spain has the highest unemployment rate in the EU,about the same as Greece, around 23%.
Where I live it's over 30%. 
In order to be resident in Spain you need an income of €600 monthly each plus savings of around €6000 per person plus private health insurance. 
People offering property maintenance and willing to 'turn their hand to anything' are working for as little as €4 an hour, illegally. 
Do you speak Spanish? Most jobs require a knowledge of the language, even in British immigrant areas.
Sorry not to be more encouraging but Alca's advice is very sound. Wait a couple of years and things may have improved.
It's not as easy as it was fifteen or twenty years ago to move to Spain unless you have a good, secure profesional job lined up or an established business. 
Or unless you are retired but even then you need an adequate income from pensions or investments. Very many British imigrants have returned to the UK over the past ten years.
Spain was hit hard by the collapse of the construction boom.


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## profwhataloadacrap (Jan 25, 2016)

lorac2412 said:


> Oh dear thats a shame. I was hoping there would be at least a few jobs that we could do to keep us busy. Guess we have to put up with the UK for a little longer or maybe come and rent for 6 months then come back to work here.


Despite all this apparent negative news, if you see my post. I just got a recruitment agent onto organising my dad a few interviews for when we arrive!
if your good at something and persistent, I always think you can do it. just gotta be optimistic!
A nice person here put me onto info jobs, that was handy. it's in spanish. but I had an immediate response from that too.

my dad's 51 and he's done real estate in his past.

May the force be with you, wish you all the luck, let us know how you go. Spain looks amazing!


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

However, positivity is lovely and to be commended - BUT, lets look at the facts. Those who live in Spain and know how things are and how the system is are the people who are probably more accurate than those who dont and havent negotiated the Spanish system yet. So with the greatest of respect, one has to chose who is likely to be more knowledgeable 

Jo xxx


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

The other thing the OP has to think about is that without employment contracts or paying into the spanish system, is that they will need healthcare cover

Jo xxx


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

I think it's grossly irresponsible to urge someone to do something when one hasn't as yet done it onesself or indeed knows very little about how things really are in Spain. As Jo says, we live here, most of us are Spanish- speaking and some of us work here.
People can tell you all sorts of things on Forums. Best to come and see for yourself how things really are. 
Moving from one country to another isn't a frivolous thing to do, something you do on a whim, unless of course you are footloose and fancy free. It requires thought and planning.
Of course there are jobs- people move on, retire, die, just as in any country. It is not impossible to find some sort of work.
It's just not as easy as some would have you believe.


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## Horlics (Sep 27, 2011)

profwhataloadacrap said:


> my dad's 51 and he's done real estate in his past.


Are the interviews for estate agency work?


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## DreamDoLove (Jan 16, 2016)

Hi Lorac2412, have you looked into online work? I work fully online (as a coach) and most of my clients are in the UK; with the 1-hour time difference it's great. Virtual PAs are becoming popular in the UK; that seems like something that might be a good fit? You could start test trading in the UK, build up a client base, and see how much income you're making before any move abroad. 

Virtual PA's just one option of course. There's also online tutoring, online writing jobs (legal skills might be useful there) - if online work isn't something you've thought of I'd really recommend looking into it. (Speaking as a career/small biz coach.)

I also think that both negative and positive inputs are helpful; the average experience in any situation may well be your experience, or you may be creative/lucky/have some quirk that allows you to succeed where others haven't. Much of 'success' (however you define it) depends on your own will, motivation and creativity, and your ability to network and persuade others of your strengths. It is very important to know the job market, who you're competing with, your skills gaps and your strengths - and come up with a strategy for creating/promoting your Unique Selling Point(s). If the idea of battling the odds is exhausting/you feel it won't be worth it in terms of the effort, then it's fine to let that go! But if you've your heart set on something and believe you can take on the challenge wholeheartedly, you will usually find some way to make it work.

Anyway, yes - look into online businesses you could run! And all the best to you both.


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## Horlics (Sep 27, 2011)

Hi, the reason I asked if was estate agency work is because if it is, there are plenty of positions open. Previously, when you talked about executive business development I'd taken that to mean something a bit different from sales work, but if it is general sales then like almost anywhere, Spain offers plenty of opportunities. Whether it is very temporary or permanent depends on results of course.

Anyway, I will post again a link I posted a few weeks ago. Jobs Bay Radio

That's a local radio station and who knows, maybe radio stations elsewhere also have jobs pages. You'll see loads for sales roles. Maybe that will help.

Today was the first time I have looked at the page for a while and I see that there are now adverts for plumbers and construction people! Things must be turning around.




profwhataloadacrap said:


> Despite all this apparent negative news, if you see my post. I just got a recruitment agent onto organising my dad a few interviews for when we arrive!
> if your good at something and persistent, I always think you can do it. just gotta be optimistic!
> A nice person here put me onto info jobs, that was handy. it's in spanish. but I had an immediate response from that too.
> 
> ...


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## AllHeart (Nov 22, 2013)

If you google "jobs in Spain," you'll get over 400 million hits, including tips, job sites, obstacles, forums....all kinds of interesting topics. Yes, it's daunting to find work, but not impossible. You may be a rare exception. Here you go:

https://www.google.es/search?q=jobs...2.2106j0j7&sourceid=chrome&es_sm=122&ie=UTF-8


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## lorac2412 (Jan 26, 2016)

Thanks everyone for your input. Never seen or thought of an online PA but this is defo something I am going to look into. The only online things I have seen are filling in surveys for 20p which is totally rubbish and a total waste of time. I have been doing estate agency work here part time and working in the office doing the legal paperwork so got a good knowledge of that. I did look at the jobs radio which was a little helpful. I was a bit daunted by the vast size of Spain and how the coast can be very remote in places with no infrastructure around it. I am not too keen on Benidorm as it looks far too "English and touristy" for me but if there were plenty of jobs there would look at living outwith. The impression I got was there was no job prospects there so don't bother but will reconsider now. Cheers.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

lorac2412 said:


> Thanks everyone for your input. Never seen or thought of an online PA but this is defo something I am going to look into. The only online things I have seen are filling in surveys for 20p which is totally rubbish and a total waste of time. I have been doing estate agency work here part time and working in the office doing the legal paperwork so got a good knowledge of that. I did look at the jobs radio which was a little helpful. I was a bit daunted by the vast size of Spain and how the coast can be very remote in places with no infrastructure around it. I am not too keen on Benidorm as it looks far too "English and touristy" for me but if there were plenty of jobs there would look at living outwith. The impression I got was there was no job prospects there so don't bother but will reconsider now. Cheers.


If I were you I wouldn't totally disregard advice given here but I would consider very carefully whence it comes. Some of us have been here for several years but because we are retired we have no direct experience of the job market. Then there is the fact that as you say Spain is a big country and we who live here are more than likely familiar with our own patch and not much else beyond.
And of course anyone can tell you anything on the internet....
Such figures as there are, those that give the hard facts on unemployment, aren't encouraging. Spain's economy is still very fragile. But as I and others have said, people do get jobs, although it's not easy.
The big question is what kind of job. Some people are content to scrape a living cleaning pools and houses, doing garden and house maintenance, working illegally for not very much money. It's a precarious existence but for some people, it's a way to live 'the dream'. 
I'm guessing you want something a little more stable than that. Savings run out and you need to cover the basics, rent, utilities, health insurance etc. as well have enough to be able to enjoy yourselves.
The biggest obstacle wherever you live will be language. If you intend to work, even in the middle of Benidorm, Spanish is a must. The best way to learn is by living in Spain.
The advice that old-timers like Jo give, which is eminently sensible, is to suck it and see, as it were. Spend as much time as you can in as many places as you can. Check out the local papers and employment bureaux. Talk to people 'in the know'...avoid British immigrants in bars, though.
Most people would agree that to get anything done in Spain it's a case of 'who you know', not 'what you know'. Contacts are all-important and you can't make contacts unless you are here, on the spot.
Take your time, do some investigative work and enjoy yourselves whilst you're doing it. Spain isn't going anywhere in a hurry.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

mrypg9 said:


> The advice that old-timers like Jo give,


 * OLD????* 

Jo xxx


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

jojo said:


> * OLD????*
> 
> Jo xxx



Observe the hyphen
'Old-time' as in 'old time musical hall', or 'old-time religion', perhaps, denoting tradition, roots, links with bygone days...

Note to self...when in hole.....


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## lorac2412 (Jan 26, 2016)

Thank you for the information. We are both in our 50's and appreciate jobs may be given to the younger generation but we are still lively and fit and willing to do anything and generally succeed. We really want to move from the UK to be in the sun and live our retirement life somewhere nice and warm. We have also looked at Cyprus and the comments there have almost been the same as for Spain so which we decide on is going to be a matter of maybe try them both.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

lorac2412 said:


> Thank you for the information. We are both in our 50's and appreciate jobs may be given to the younger generation but we are still lively and fit and willing to do anything and generally succeed. We really want to move from the UK to be in the sun and live our retirement life somewhere nice and warm. We have also looked at Cyprus and the comments there have almost been the same as for Spain so which we decide on is going to be a matter of maybe try them both.


Trying them both is a great idea - you get to see various places and ideas!!! But I always recommend actually going to places to see for yourself and to get an idea how you'd fit in and how you will find it - thats the fun bit lol

Jo xxx


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## bob_bob (Jan 5, 2011)

I was based on Cyprus back in the 80's, beautiful place, beautiful people but one thing I came to realise is that if a Cypriot wanted work doing or had a job on offer they looked to family first and friends second; I would guess its harder to find work there now than it is in Spain...and its an expensive place to live.

This time of year the forum attracts a lot of folk wanting out of the UK, they can all 'turn their hands to anything' and when they don't get the answers they want they get the hump.

'Living the dream' in Spain is certainly possible if you have needed skills or better still don't need to work.

Has the sun set on the expat dream in Spain? - Telegraph

90,000 brits have packed up and gone home or elsewhere... thats a good sobering article.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

In the end, the "dream" could be anywhere, once the novelty has worn off. Lives are pretty much the same wherever you live in the first world. Shopping, cooking, cleaning, school run......In Spain its warmer and there is more to do in the summer and the washing dries quicker. In the winter it can be warm occasionally, or it can be like its been in the UK for the past couple of days - the difference is that in the UK we have central heating, carpets and insulation! 

Jo xxx


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## AllHeart (Nov 22, 2013)

Here's another article along the lines of BobBob's article, including many other reasons immigrating here is difficult. There are links to other articles on the top of the article:

Is now the right time to leave Spain? - The Local


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## lorac2412 (Jan 26, 2016)

Read the article Bob, yes that is quite depressing reading. Quite sad for the people who lived there and just had to pack their cases and leave. I don't intend buying for at least the first year just renting so hopefully things may have picked up by then. Fortunately we would have £240k to see us through the first year if we did not secure jobs and that would give us a good idea if we could stay or come back to the UK.


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## Isobella (Oct 16, 2014)

Another day like today and I shall be asking about a job scrubbing out apartments


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

There will be torrential rain in Spain next week - we're going over to visit friends and we always take the rain with us 

Jo xxx


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

jojo said:


> There will be torrential rain in Spain next week - we're going over to visit friends and we always take the rain with is
> 
> Jo xxx


Where in Spain, Jo? We haven't had decent rain for months.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

mrypg9 said:


> Where in Spain, Jo? We haven't had decent rain for months.


Nerja, so you might just get some lol - If we had the time, we'd venture down your way, but its a real "flying visit" arrive Tuesday and go back on Friday 

Jo xxx


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## Isobella (Oct 16, 2014)

bob_bob said:


> I was based on Cyprus back in the 80's, beautiful place, beautiful people but one thing I came to realise is that if a Cypriot wanted work doing or had a job on offer they looked to family first and friends second; I would guess its harder to find work there now than it is in Spain...and its an expensive place to live.
> 
> This time of year the forum attracts a lot of folk wanting out of the UK, they can all 'turn their hands to anything' and when they don't get the answers they want they get the hump.
> 
> ...


According to El Pais last week 300,000 foreigners left Spain last year.


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

AllHeart said:


> Here's another article along the lines of BobBob's article, including many other reasons immigrating here is difficult. There are links to other articles on the top of the article:
> 
> Is now the right time to leave Spain? - The Local


This article is almost two years old.


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## Madliz (Feb 4, 2011)

jojo said:


> In the end, the "dream" could be anywhere, once the novelty has worn off. Lives are pretty much the same wherever you live in the first world. Shopping, cooking, cleaning, school run......In Spain its warmer and there is more to do in the summer and the washing dries quicker. In the winter it can be warm occasionally, or it can be like its been in the UK for the past couple of days - the difference is that in the UK we have central heating, carpets and insulation!
> 
> Jo xxx


How true! We got twice as much house here for our money, compared to the UK, so I now have three bathrooms to clean. And a swimming pool. 

We bought this house in 1994. Out of interest I just checked on Zoopla and our old house in Herts is now worth over four times what we sold it for, while this house is now worth about 2-3 times what we paid for it (depending on whose valuation one believes). It's lucky I don't want to go back!


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## AllHeart (Nov 22, 2013)

Madliz said:


> How true! We got twice as much house here for our money, compared to the UK, so I now have three bathrooms to clean. And a swimming pool.
> 
> We bought this house in 1994. Out of interest I just checked on Zoopla and our old house in Herts is now worth over four times what we sold it for, while this house is now worth about 2-3 times what we paid for it (depending on whose valuation one believes). It's lucky I don't want to go back!


Then you broke even, or even came out ahead... For argument's sake, let's say your house in the UK was worth €100,000 in 1994. But you got twice as much for the money in Spain. That means you bought a Spanish house that was worth €200,000 back in 1994.

Current market value of your UK house is four times as much, i.e. €400,000

Current market value of your house in Spain is two to three times as much, i.e. €400,000 to €600,000.


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## Madliz (Feb 4, 2011)

AllHeart said:


> Then you broke even, or even came out ahead... For argument's sake, let's say your house in the UK was worth €100,000 in 1994. But you got twice as much for the money in Spain. That means you bought a Spanish house that was worth €200,000 back in 1994.
> 
> Current market value of your UK house is four times as much, i.e. €400,000
> 
> Current market value of your house in Spain is two to three times as much, i.e. €400,000 to €600,000.


The houses bought and sold for €100,000 but the Spanish one is twice the size. The UK house is now worth (using your starting price of 100k) €450,000, while the Spanish house is worth €250,000. It is not tragic, but I am not ahead. With the money realised from the sale of my Spanish house, I would not be able to afford anything like the house I sold in the UK in '94.


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## AllHeart (Nov 22, 2013)

Madliz said:


> The houses bought and sold for €100,000 but the Spanish one is twice the size. The UK house is now worth (using your starting price of 100k) €450,000, while the Spanish house is worth €250,000. It is not tragic, but I am not ahead. With the money realised from the sale of my Spanish house, I would not be able to afford anything like the house I sold in the UK in '94.


Above you said twice as much, which I took to mean twice the value, like you're showing in this example. I'll put it another way... So if the market value of the house in Spain vs a UK house is double, then if you were to buy the house you have in Spain in the UK, a €250,000 Spanish house is worth a €500,000 UK house (a little more than €450,000), which is what I'v heard a lot of people saying here in Spain, that the cost of buying is much, much lower than in the UK. But then you say you couldn't afford a house in Spain like the one you sold in '94 in the UK. So that doesn't make sense.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

AllHeart said:


> Above you said twice as much, which I took to mean twice the value, like you're showing in this example. I'll put it another way... So if the market value of the house in Spain vs a UK house is double, then if you were to buy the house you have in Spain in the UK, a €250,000 Spanish house is worth a €500,000 UK house (a little more than €450,000), which is what I'v heard a lot of people saying here in Spain, that the cost of buying is much, much lower than in the UK. But then you say you couldn't afford a house in Spain like the one you sold in '94 in the UK. So that doesn't make sense.


She said she got twice as much house for her money, i.e. in essence, you get more bangs for your bucks when you buy in Spain. 
House prices have increased in the UK whereas they have decreased dramatically in Spain. So if you sold a large house in Spain you wouldnot be able to buy a house of the same style and size in the UK with the proceeds of your sale.
If you've become accustomed to living in a four bedroomed four bath villa with pool in Spain it will be tough downsizing to a rowhouse.
Same with rents. We would be paying three or four times as much rent in the UK as we do here in Spain.


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## Madliz (Feb 4, 2011)

> But then you say you couldn't afford a house in Spain like the one you sold in '94 in the UK. So that doesn't make sense.


I think that was your assumption and I'm sorry if I caused confusion. What I said was:



> I would not be able to afford anything like the house I sold in the UK in '94.


That house is still in the UK. 

My point is that property values have increased at a higher rate in the UK than in Spain. For many years, property has been a bargain here, compared to there. It works well one way but not so well the other way.


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

Madliz said:


> How true! We got twice as much house here for our money, compared to the UK, so I now have three bathrooms to clean. And a swimming pool.
> 
> We bought this house in 1994. Out of interest I just checked on Zoopla and our old house in Herts is now worth over four times what we sold it for, while this house is now worth about 2-3 times what we paid for it (depending on whose valuation one believes). It's lucky I don't want to go back!


.... and how do you go about getting a valuation?

No estate agent I know in Spain (any nationality) will value a property - they all say "what do you want to get for it?".

Maybe they can price properties on urbanizations but else where ....?


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## Chopera (Apr 22, 2013)

snikpoh said:


> .... and how do you go about getting a valuation?
> 
> No estate agent I know in Spain (any nationality) will value a property - they all say "what do you want to get for it?".
> 
> Maybe they can price properties on urbanizations but else where ....?


It's the million dollar question, and probably a reason why the market has stalled so much: nobody knows what the market price for properties are. I guess there may be some tasadores who might tell you the market value of a property?


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## AllHeart (Nov 22, 2013)

Madliz said:


> I think that was your assumption and I'm sorry if I caused confusion. What I said was:
> 
> 
> That house is still in the UK.


Yes, I understand what you're saying - that the house in the UK is valued 4x that of '94, whereas the house in Spain is only 2-3x that of '94. What I'm saying is if you get double the value of a house in Spain, you're still ahead with your house. Anyway, I can't explain it better than that. I understand that the norm in Spain is that housing prices have dropped significantly, so you're fortunate.



Madliz said:


> My point is that property values have increased at a higher rate in the UK than in Spain. For many years, property has been a bargain here, compared to there. It works well one way but not so well the other way.


In Canada, the expression we have for the housing market is that the UK is a "seller's market" (prices are high) and Spain is a "buyer's market" (prices are low). Do you use the same expression in Europe? So, like Mary is saying, if you're selling in Spain you will lose if you want the equivalent in the UK. But if you're selling in the UK, you will gain if you want the equivalent in Spain.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

AllHeart said:


> Yes, I understand what you're saying - that the house in the UK is valued 4x that of '94, whereas the house in Spain is only 2-3x that of '94. What I'm saying is if you get double the value of a house in Spain, you're still ahead with your house. Anyway, I can't explain it better than that. I understand that the norm in Spain is that housing prices have dropped significantly, so you're fortunate.
> 
> 
> 
> In Canada, the expression we have for the housing market is that the UK is a "seller's market" (prices are high) and Spain is a "buyer's market" (prices are low). Do you use the same expression in Europe? So, like Mary is saying, if you're selling in Spain you will lose if you want the equivalent in the UK. But if you're selling in the UK, you will gain if you want the equivalent in Spain.


I was very impressed with the buying process in Canada, a lot more trust involved. I bought on a handshake. It also seemed to me that you got a lot more for your dollar, like Spain. 
The place I bought in Almonte, rural Ontario, was in a 'heritage building', a former mill built in 1870 and converted into a condo of very spacious apartments. It had a games room, library, workshop and 'party room' with sprung dance floor and stood in landscaped grounds with a river and waterfall. There was twenty- four hour concierge. 
Can't remember the exact price but it was less than $CAD 150. A huge IT orientated business park opened up in Kanata just down Highway 417 and Almonte became sought after by well-paid young professionals which resulted in a doubling of property prices almost overnight.
Almonte was a lovely neighbourly small town but for some reason decline set in and when I went back after I had sold up it was a sad, empty place.


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## AllHeart (Nov 22, 2013)

mrypg9 said:


> I was very impressed with the buying process in Canada, a lot more trust involved. I bought on a handshake. It also seemed to me that you got a lot more for your dollar, like Spain.
> The place I bought in Almonte, rural Ontario, was in a 'heritage building', a former mill built in 1870 and converted into a condo of very spacious apartments. It had a games room, library, workshop and 'party room' with sprung dance floor and stood in landscaped grounds with a river and waterfall. There was twenty- four hour concierge.
> Can't remember the exact price but it was less than $CAD 150. A huge IT orientated business park opened up in Kanata just down Highway 417 and Almonte became sought after by well-paid young professionals which resulted in a doubling of property prices almost overnight.
> Almonte was a lovely neighbourly small town but for some reason decline set in and when I went back after I had sold up it was a sad, empty place.


A hand shake?!?! Never heard of that! That must have been a long time ago.

Yes, you spoke of that Almonte purchase before. Remember I gave you this link:

Almonte Ontario | Still the friendly town

Almonte is not boarded up any more. Canada is like most countries, where places change with time.

The cost of housing in Canada has exploded everywhere. I don't know dollar for dollar what the comparison is with European countries. But real estate value is the same globally, based on three factors: Location, location and location. What would you prefer - a house in Canada or the equivalent house in Europe?


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

AllHeart said:


> A hand shake?!?! Never heard of that! That must have been a long time ago.
> 
> Yes, you spoke of that Almonte purchase before. Remember I gave you this link:
> 
> ...


Fifteen years ago and yes, Almonte seems to have come to life again. Out of curiosity I googled it and there are now a lot of thriving arts/ crafts type shops, cafes and so on. It is a very pretty little town, not that far from Ottawa and with some stunning countryside around. 
If by 'equivalent house' you mean same size, amenities, 'appeal factor'.....I would choose Europe. 
Which is what I did. The time I spent in Canada was enjoyable but I'm a European...maybe I could have settled in Montreal, certainly not in my Aunt's home town, Deux Montagnes. 
I really like Montreal, not keen on Ottawa.


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## AllHeart (Nov 22, 2013)

mrypg9 said:


> Fifteen years ago and yes, Almonte seems to have come to life again. Out of curiosity I googled it and there are now a lot of thriving arts/ crafts type shops, cafes and so on. It is a very pretty little town, not that far from Ottawa and with some stunning countryside around.
> If by 'equivalent house' you mean same size, amenities, 'appeal factor'.....I would choose Europe.
> Which is what I did. The time I spent in Canada was enjoyable but I'm a European...maybe I could have settled in Montreal, certainly not in my Aunt's home town, Deux Montagnes.
> I really like Montreal, not keen on Ottawa.


Yes, I think most would choose Europe too, which is what I meant also. I too love Montreal and visited there often when I lived in Ottawa, as it's so close. 

Almonte really has picked up indeed. It's still a tiny town, so it's not too expensive compared to the big cities, but check out these prices of houses there. You'll see how even there the housing prices have exploded:

Almonte Real Estate - 59 Homes For Sale | Ovlix

Mississippi Mills, Almonte, Ontario Real Estate and Homes For Sale

Almonte Real Estate - Almonte Homes for Sale & Condos | RE/MAX


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## bob_bob (Jan 5, 2011)

Exploded? LOL, come to the UK and look at property prices. Most of the houses in the link look to be about half the price of similar sized properties in my nearest city of Cardiff.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

AllHeart said:


> Yes, I think most would choose Europe too, which is what I meant also. I too love Montreal and visited there often when I lived in Ottawa, as it's so close.
> 
> Almonte really has picked up indeed. It's still a tiny town, so it's not too expensive compared to the big cities, but check out these prices of houses there. You'll see how even there the housing prices have exploded:
> 
> ...


Rosamund Street Mill was where I had my apartment.
Did you visit Almonte when you lived in Ottawa? 

BobBob...it's not just the prics, the houses and apartments are so well constructed and appointed.
The rooms in my place were huge...the living room was like a ballroom! Beautiful hardwood floors in every room, very efficient insulation, needed for the cold winters as Allheart will remember well....
My Aunt rarely needed to heat her apartment in Quebec to more than 15c in the coldest minus God knows what weather.
It could be unbearably hot and humid in summer though. One summer I was there a heatwave emergency was declared......old people were being moved into commnity 'shelters'. It was like walking in soup.


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## amespana (Nov 10, 2009)

What kind of soup?


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## therese1 (Jan 28, 2016)

snikpoh said:


> .... and how do you go about getting a valuation?
> 
> No estate agent I know in Spain (any nationality) will value a property - they all say "what do you want to get for it?".
> 
> Maybe they can price properties on urbanizations but else where ....?


Your point brings to mind the prices quoted on viewing trips.

If the seller is an expat the price seems to be higher than if the property is being sold by a native owner. In saying that the expats have usually reformed or made improvements whereas the cheaper houses tend to be neglected or 'projects.'

Dilemma for me as I don't want a huge structural affair but I often don't like the improvements. I've found that even with numerous internet searches and loads of photos only personal visits have given me an idea of value. And even that is very subjective.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

amespana said:


> What kind of soup?


Defnitely a potage rather than a consomme..


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## AllHeart (Nov 22, 2013)

bob_bob said:


> Exploded? LOL, come to the UK and look at property prices. Most of the houses in the link look to be about half the price of similar sized properties in my nearest city of Cardiff.


Yes, they have exploded, because as I showed in those links, a little house in Almonte now goes for double what Mary paid for her mansion. She paid $150,000, and you can't even buy a little house with that now.

As to comparing the prices of Cardiff with Almonte, that's apples and oranges. It'd be more reasonable to compare prices between Ottawa and Cardiff, as they're both the capital of the country and the population is about the same, though Ottawa has a larger area. 

Ottawa Real Estate - Ottawa Homes for Sale & Condos | RE/MAX

According to Numbeo.com, renting in apartment is about the same, but buying an apartment is 20% more in Ottawa centre:

Property Prices Comparison Between Ottawa, Canada And Cardiff, United Kingdom


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## AllHeart (Nov 22, 2013)

mrypg9 said:


> Rosamund Street Mill was where I had my apartment.
> Did you visit Almonte when you lived in Ottawa?
> 
> BobBob...it's not just the prics, the houses and apartments are so well constructed and appointed.
> ...


Yes, I probably did visit Almonte, as I lived in Ottawa many years throughout my life. But I don't remember it.

Is this the place you bought?

1 Rosamond St # 311, Almonte, ON - 982482 - HomeFinder.ca

I still can't get my head around how you bought your house with just a hand shake. Every piece of land has a deed that is registered in the government archives, which the owner needs to have to prove that it's their land, and when they sell the land, they need to pass on that deed to the buyer. So how did you sell your house if you didn't have a deed?


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

AllHeart said:


> Yes, I probably did visit Almonte, as I lived in Ottawa many years throughout my life. But I don't remember it.
> 
> Is this the place you bought?
> 
> ...


Yes, I bought a bigger apartment in there.
And yes, bought on a handshake but of course I had the deeds...Sandra and I went to the realtor to see if they had apartments or houses we could rent for a month as we were staying with my horrible cousin on her farm in Carp and didn't want to go back there the following summer. The guy we spoke to suggested we visited that building to see some apartments so off we went. We fell in love with the place and agreed to buy and shook hands on the spot to seal the deal, didn't sign anything. That was it. We were amazed.
We went back to the UK the next day and everything was done by fax, e-mail, phone and bank transfer.
We never lived in the place, we rented it out and when we visited we stayed in a guest suite that owners could use free of charge.
So we made on the rent, made on the sale a few years later and had enjoyable very long holidays there. 
The town, village really, was very friendly, a bit too friendly for me. Everyone knew everyone else and everything about them. I also don't think we could have stood the extreme winters. One year the building was snowed in, nothing could drive in or out for a couple of days.


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## AllHeart (Nov 22, 2013)

mrypg9 said:


> Yes, I bought a bigger apartment in there.
> And yes, bought on a handshake but of course I had the deeds...Sandra and I went to the realtor to see if they had apartments or houses we could rent for a month as we were staying with my horrible cousin on her farm in Carp and didn't want to go back there the following summer. The guy we spoke to suggested we visited that building to see some apartments so off we went. We fell in love with the place and agreed to buy and shook hands on the spot to seal the deal, didn't sign anything. That was it. We were amazed.
> We went back to the UK the next day and everything was done by fax, e-mail, phone and bank transfer.
> We never lived in the place, we rented it out and when we visited we stayed in a guest suite that owners could use free of charge.
> ...


Oh, I thought you bought the whole building for under $150,000! LOL! Here are three more listings - almost $200,000 now:

Almonte Real Estate - Almonte Homes for Sale & Condos | RE/MAX

You're right, that Ottawa and area has a ton of snow, because the city is nestled in a valley. I liked the snow when I was younger, but not any more. 

Yes, small towns typically have close-knit communities. I don't like that either. I grew up in a small village from the ages of 4 to 18, when I left home. We travelled a lot to big cities, and I always knew that I would always live in the city, which I have. It's not just the claustrophobia of everyone knowing my business in a small town, but I like the amenities of the city - shopping, transportation, clubs, job opportunities, museums, entertainment, restaurants. 

It was all those papers you signed that made the deal - not just the hand shake. But I see what you mean, that you agreed on the price on the spot with that hand shake. But it's buyer beware - not seller beware. So typically before agreeing to a price, the buyer has a lawyer check to see if there are any liens against the property [mortgage, loans where the house was used as collateral, and house bills (electricity, water, etc)]. If there are any liens, the buyer is responsible for them. Also, typically the buyer has a house inspector come in to assess the property to check the state of the house - plumbing, electricity, roof, windows...everything. The property is also appraised, which your real estate agent probably did. You have the option of skipping all those steps, but the risk is yours - the buyer - not the seller. However, if you wanted to take out a mortgage, the bank would have required those steps. I know you've bought properties in the UK. Do people do those steps in the UK too? And Spain?


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Don't know about Spain but yes, your lawyer will do all that in the UK. I had a lawyer in Almonte do that, I never met him until several months after I bought the place. I bought cash so there were no mortgage complications. Luckily for me I bought at a time when the £ -$CAD rate was favourable for me.
I sold the place to a tenant.
It was a really nice apartment, thick external and internal walls. Two bedrooms, two baths, dining room, area for study/ computer desk and a spacious living room looking onto the grounds with river and waterfall view.
The occupants of the apartments were mainly retired professionals.


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## DreamDoLove (Jan 16, 2016)

lorac2412 said:


> Thank you for the information. We are both in our 50's and appreciate jobs may be given to the younger generation but we are still lively and fit and willing to do anything and generally succeed. We really want to move from the UK to be in the sun and live our retirement life somewhere nice and warm. We have also looked at Cyprus and the comments there have almost been the same as for Spain so which we decide on is going to be a matter of maybe try them both.


My aunt and uncle moved to Cyprus with their kids a good few years ago, and both work in property there; they're loving it. Glad to hear you're going to look into the virtual PA opportunities; gets rid of language barrier as far as dealing with clients is concerned! Less pressure while you learn for everything else. All the best to you both.


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## AllHeart (Nov 22, 2013)

DreamDoLove said:


> My aunt and uncle moved to Cyprus with their kids a good few years ago, and both work in property there; they're loving it. Glad to hear you're going to look into the virtual PA opportunities; gets rid of language barrier as far as dealing with clients is concerned! Less pressure while you learn for everything else. All the best to you both.


What's a PA?


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## AllHeart (Nov 22, 2013)

mrypg9 said:


> Don't know about Spain but yes, your lawyer will do all that in the UK. I had a lawyer in Almonte do that, I never met him until several months after I bought the place. I bought cash so there were no mortgage complications. Luckily for me I bought at a time when the £ -$CAD rate was favourable for me.
> I sold the place to a tenant.
> It was a really nice apartment, thick external and internal walls. Two bedrooms, two baths, dining room, area for study/ computer desk and a spacious living room looking onto the grounds with river and waterfall view.
> The occupants of the apartments were mainly retired professionals.


Then your apt is worth much more than $200,000 now, because all four of those I saw were one bedroom and one bathroom! Yes, I looked at the pics and write-ups, and they look absolutely gorgeous, even better than you describe.  The link I gave doesn't work directly to the listings, as it's a map. Click the top right button "list" and you will see the three apts:

Almonte Real Estate - Almonte Homes for Sale & Condos | RE/MAX

BTW, we don't say in Canada that we "bought an apartment." When it's an apt that's bought, it's called a condo (condominium). I know in Europe you still call it apt. Condos are owned and also come with condo fees - unlike apartments. I see for this place the condo fees are $400 a month, which is the norm.


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## lorac2412 (Jan 26, 2016)

AllHeart a PA is a Personal Assistant. 
DreamDoLove. I am just going through the registration process of Time and People per Hour which seem to be quite good. Time sent me a test so hopefully they will be happy with what I produced. There seems to be a lot of jobs for IT and graphic designers and lots going for them but I only need a few a week and that would sort me out. Fingers crossed and that would sort me out.


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## AllHeart (Nov 22, 2013)

lorac2412 said:


> AllHeart a PA is a Personal Assistant.


Like this?

Personal assistant: Job description | Prospects.ac.uk


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## lorac2412 (Jan 26, 2016)

Hi AllHeart. Yes thats what I do. There are companies now that will pay for a virtual PA where they can do work from their home PC's which I was not aware of. I have many years experience and feel I would be able to do with with ease.


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## AllHeart (Nov 22, 2013)

lorac2412 said:


> Hi AllHeart. Yes thats what I do. There are companies now that will pay for a virtual PA where they can do work from their home PC's which I was not aware of. I have many years experience and feel I would be able to do with with ease.


Hi Lorac.  Wow, that's awesome that you can do that at home! I did medical transcription for 30 years in Canada, and was self-employed for the last 20 years, working at home over the internet to link into hospital computers. I'm happy to hear that this is a surprise to you and that you might be able to make a go of it. Best of luck! :fingerscrossed:


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## lorac2412 (Jan 26, 2016)

That seems an awsome job. If I can get an online job moving abroad will be great as I will not have to depend on getting a job when I get there. The only problem I see is the competition but I will just have to sell myself


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## AllHeart (Nov 22, 2013)

lorac2412 said:


> That seems an awsome job. If I can get an online job moving abroad will be great as I will not have to depend on getting a job when I get there. The only problem I see is the competition but I will just have to sell myself


I was planning on doing the same here in Spain - working as a medical transcriptionist here, getting contracts from English-speaking countries. But my health gave out on me, so now I'm on Canada Pension Plan Disability (CPPD) and treating my health problems here. If I can stabilise, CPPD will pay to retrain me. Or perhaps I can find something for which I don't need retraining. I don't think I can go back to medical transcription because of my neuromuscular problems, which I'm just starting to get investigated here. The possibility of working is a very long way off, but I'm talking to friends and family here now as to what's out there, just in case....dreaming, you know?


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