# electric usage



## Monty Floyd (Aug 31, 2010)

The house I rent has an a/c unit and when I moved down here last year, I anticipated that my electric bill would be higher in the summer than what my landlord had paid while he was living here previously. (he kept the account in his name) My electric billing cycle is 2 months, I don't know if that's true for everybody else but anyway, my first bill was for July/August and I had used 650 kWh. Sep/Oct=640 kWh, Nov/Dec=487, Jan/Feb=1070 and this was a big surprise because I had no idea that the heater was going to cost more to run than the a/c. Then in Mar/Apr they hiked me up into a commercial rate so that my 613 kWh for that cycle cost 2308 when the Jan/Feb bill was 2636.
My landlord can't figure out why my bills are so high. He tells me that at his house they have 4 or 5 TVs on all day long (don't ask). I have my computer and 1 TV and they are never on at the same time. I have a microwave but don't use it all that much, mostly just warming up something or heating a cup of water for coffee. Most of my lights are CFLs with a couple of exceptions but I don't use them much and a couple fans. Everything else is gas.
Just was curious how much electric everyone else is using. Am I way above?


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## RVGRINGO (May 16, 2007)

Electricity is billed in a multi-tiered rate system designed to encourage conservation. As such, the more you use, the more you pay per KwH. You have obviously been bumped up to the DAC rate (High consumption rate) which can be four times the cost per KwH. It will take you several billing cycles at lower consumption to get back to the lower rates.
Using any heat-generating appliance is the culprit. Never heat with electricity and avoid using toaster ovens, toasters, crock pots, etc. as they do make the meter spin. If you can live without AC, or with minimal usage, that is advised. Folks have also discovered how much large screen TVs can use; especially plasma screens. If you have a pressurized water system, be sure it is operating correctly and not activating the pump every time you open a faucet. If there is a pool, minimize pump usage for that and don't forget to turn off those little fountain pumps which suck electricity 24/7 and use more than you think; they may even leak electricity to ground through the water.


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## Guest (Apr 17, 2011)

I have averaged 310 kWh per 2 month billing for my rented house. I don't have A/C, just a refrigerator, TV and computer on most of the day and night. 

In the winter of 2009-10, we had a cold snap, and I ran a small electric heater through the days and nights for a 6 week period. It was nice! I then received the next CFE bill, and had used 950 kWh. The difference was that small, 1500 watt heater running all of the time. Now if it gets a bit cold in the evenings, I put a big pot of water on the stove and boil it for 30-45 minutes to warm up the house and bump the humidity up in the winter. That is enough to carry the heat through the night, and it is using subsidized propane to do so.

Good luck. (and it's nice to see RVGringo posting again - welcome back)


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## ReefHound (Aug 9, 2010)

Try shutting off and unplugging everything in the house then go see if your meter is still spinning.


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## bigfootbill (Feb 2, 2011)

How can forward this info ?
B


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## RVGRINGO (May 16, 2007)

You could start a new e-mail to the person, then cut and paste each of these responses into the body of that e-mail.


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## ReefHound (Aug 9, 2010)

Another way to do it is to print the thread to a PDF. That way preserves the appearance whereas cut n paste often mangles the formatting. There are all kinds of free "print to PDF" utilities out there (I use CutePDF) that act like a print driver, you click on print and select it like you would any other printer. Very handy tool.


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## makaloco (Mar 26, 2009)

Or you could simply copy/paste the URL and mail that, enabling the other person to follow the thread in case new responses are posted.


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## conorkilleen (Apr 28, 2010)

RVGRINGO said:


> Electricity is billed in a multi-tiered rate system designed to encourage conservation. As such, the more you use, the more you pay per KwH. You have obviously been bumped up to the DAC rate (High consumption rate) which can be four times the cost per KwH. It will take you several billing cycles at lower consumption to get back to the lower rates.
> Using any heat-generating appliance is the culprit. Never heat with electricity and avoid using toaster ovens, toasters, crock pots, etc. as they do make the meter spin. If you can live without AC, or with minimal usage, that is advised. Folks have also discovered how much large screen TVs can use; especially plasma screens. If you have a pressurized water system, be sure it is operating correctly and not activating the pump every time you open a faucet. If there is a pool, minimize pump usage for that and don't forget to turn off those little fountain pumps which suck electricity 24/7 and use more than you think; they may even leak electricity to ground through the water.


I just got wacked for our first $3,300 peso bill today. I didnt think we were using that much electricity at all, but seems we did. We only used our AC during the night and never during the day. Lights stay off 75% of the time and our refrigerator is new and efficient. However, since the AC is off during the day, the house is warm and the fridge runs more. I turned the internal temp down lower to help with the constant running.

An inspection of the rooftop AC unit shows some exposed duct work (that at one time was insulated) now is exposed to the direct sun light and is hot to the touch. The old insulation is now ripped off and blown away in the wind...no doubt from 2-3 years of being exposed to sunlight and the elements. I think wrapping it with some more insulation will help with the cooling portion of our bill, that way the AC unit does not run all night like it does now. Replacing the thermostat may help as well since its kind of old as well and may not function like it should.

the bill was tiered in 3 levels, basico, intermediate, and "extra" (forget what the word was)

75 kwh was one price for basic
75 kwh was double that of basic for intermediate
1120 kwh was what we went over for extra and was 3 times the amount per kwh for basico. Add them all up and you get a 3,300 peso bill....YIKES!

I learned quick. Going to get some floor fans today after work and get the duct work re-insulated this weekend.


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## ronb172 (Mar 16, 2011)

Conorkilleen, was that for a 2 month billing cycle like Monty's?


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## conorkilleen (Apr 28, 2010)

ronb172 said:


> Conorkilleen, was that for a 2 month billing cycle like Monty's?


nope..1 month.


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## ronb172 (Mar 16, 2011)

Boy that does hurt. but then I know people here in the States that have higher bills. Wife and I don't like to keep our house that cool (usually around 80). This summer we're not going to run the AC to get use to the heat for our trip back south in Aug..


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## conorkilleen (Apr 28, 2010)

yeah...tell me about it brother. I still have a house in NC and I just replaced the heat pump and furnace about a year ago. I was just getting used to $150 cooling/heating bills and then moved here to Monterrey in March. Seems like I am back to the $250+ bills I was used to before the new heatpump, however I am going to take some action and get on top of this right away. I know its only in the 90's here now, but wait till it gets into the 100's. I need to nip this in the bud.


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## ronb172 (Mar 16, 2011)

We're planning on moving to Merida and I've been watching the weather there. Man, it's been hot there. A lot of 104 days, but the nights look nice. We have days here in UT where the temps get that high, but the humidity is was lower.


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## conorkilleen (Apr 28, 2010)

here is the opposite. Really dry heat. I am somewhat used to it from all of my travels here, but was always able to take refuge in my hotel room...nice cool air and room service. Now I have to stick it out myself and pay the kings ransom for such comforts.


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## Monty Floyd (Aug 31, 2010)

conorkilleen said:


> the bill was tiered in 3 levels, basico, intermediate, and "extra" (forget what the word was)
> 
> 75 kwh was one price for basic
> 75 kwh was double that of basic for intermediate
> 1120 kwh was what we went over for extra and was 3 times the amount per kwh for basico. Add them all up and you get a 3,300 peso bill....YIKES!


My basico was 0.709 for the first 150 kWh, intermedio @ 1.181 for the next 100 kWh, excedente @ 2.497 for everything above that

now my DAC rate is 3.009


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## dongringo (Dec 13, 2010)

Many Mexican houses have 2 meters installed to avoid entering into the DAC (high usage, no subsidy) category and to continue mooching electric subsidies. Once you are in that category it's a nightmare to get out of without establishing a new contract with a different name.


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## conorkilleen (Apr 28, 2010)

I looked at the usage history and last year the tenants only 350 to 750 in varying summer months. They must have lived without AC. The 2 months before I moved in the bill was only 31 pesos per month (electric was completely turned off).

I dont see where I am in a higher DAC rate. I still was subsidized about 970 pesos on this bill. We have made a drastic change in the usage already and I hope to cut my usage in half for the next bill.


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## Monty Floyd (Aug 31, 2010)

dongringo said:


> Many Mexican houses have 2 meters installed to avoid entering into the DAC (high usage, no subsidy) category and to continue mooching electric subsidies. Once you are in that category it's a nightmare to get out of without establishing a new contract with a different name.


As I stated earlier, the account was still in my landlord's name. The only way I could get back to the 1A rate was to change the account into my name, which I did. Since then, I have kept a close eye on the meter and have tried to conserve even more by not turning on the a/c (small window type unit in master bedroom) until late at night and only when the temps are above 95 (which lately is almost every night). I am STILL averaging 10kWh/day. At that rate, I will use around 600 kWh per billing cycle and it won't be long before I am back in the DAC rate.


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## Schmo (Sep 27, 2010)

I just paid my electric and it was 809 pesos for the two month period of 02/04 to 04/06 based on 419 KW. The house was completed a year ago and the three a/c units are 220 which appears to help a lot. Ceiling fans in five rooms. Maybe my bad news is coming but for the last year it has been ok


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## johnmex (Nov 30, 2010)

The DAC applies after 12 straight months (6 bills) with an average daily consumption above 7kwh/day. I understand that it takes the same to get back out of the DAC, but 12 months straight of under 7kwh/day.


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## Monty Floyd (Aug 31, 2010)

well, I haven't been here 12 months so that can't be right, I got put on DAC after 8 months.


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## Monty Floyd (Aug 31, 2010)

dongringo said:


> Many Mexican houses have 2 meters installed to avoid entering into the DAC (high usage, no subsidy) category and to continue mooching electric subsidies. Once you are in that category it's a nightmare to get out of without establishing a new contract with a different name.


How does 2 meters save costs?


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## Monty Floyd (Aug 31, 2010)

Schmo said:


> I just paid my electric and it was 809 pesos for the two month period of 02/04 to 04/06 based on 419 KW. The house was completed a year ago and the three a/c units are 220 which appears to help a lot. Ceiling fans in five rooms. Maybe my bad news is coming but for the last year it has been ok


I asked about 220 and everybody told me it's not available for residential


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## Schmo (Sep 27, 2010)

I guess it's like most everything else, it depends on who you talk to. The builder and the realtor both recommended 220 and it was installed?


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## makaloco (Mar 26, 2009)

Monty Floyd said:


> well, I haven't been here 12 months so that can't be right, I got put on DAC after 8 months.


Since the account was still in the landlord's name, they would have calculated the average of your eight months plus the landlord's previous four months. On Tarifa 1A you need to keep your average under 300 kWh /month in order to avoid the DAC (see below). 

I'm on Tarifa 1D (hotter summers by CFE definitions) with a 1,000 kWh /mo DAC cutoff, and my average over the past year was 216 kWh /mo. No AC or heat, but I do have five large ceiling fans, a swimming pool system, a security alarm system, two water pressure pumps, a large fridge, a washing machine, several smaller gadgets, and all the stuff you have except a TV. My bills usually run between 300-400 pesos every two months. It seems odd that you'd be using more power than I am.

************************
From the CFE website:
El límite de alto consumo se define en función de la tarifa doméstica: 1, 1A, 1B, 1C, 1D, 1E y 1F ; que se aplique en tu localidad.

TARIFA LIMITE
1 250 kWh/mes
1A 300 kWh/mes
1B 400 kWh/mes
1C 850 kWh/mes
1D 1,000 kWh/mes
1E 2,000 kWh/mes
1F 2,500 kWh/mes

Here's the link:
Páginas
[click in the appropriate places where it says "Tarifas Especificas"]
************************


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## kazslo (Jun 7, 2010)

Monty Floyd said:


> How does 2 meters save costs?


Assuming you have 50% usage at your house wired to each meter, you'll be able to use twice as much energy before the higher tier rates kick in, because each meter is considered a separate account the same as 2 separate houses. Its cheating and I'm not sure that I'd be something CFE would be happy to find out about.


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## dongringo (Dec 13, 2010)

Average US electric household consumption in 2009 was 908 KW with an average price of 11.5 cents per KW. 
Table 5A. Residential Average Monthly Bill by Census Division, and State, 2009

The Mexican price (without subsidy) is more than double, about 3 pesos per KW depending on location. 

I presume an equivalent household in Mexico would use less energy because of reliance on gas for cooking. I run a 2+ person modern household without AC, a gas dryer and water heater and use an average of around 425 KW, plus the equivalent of 100 KW in gas. I`m not especially frugal. 2 acquaintences in similar situations use the same more or less. Another has 2 meters, uses about the same combined but pays about 1000 pesos less per month.

The first time it took the CFE 14 months to switch me to DAC. The second time, the 3rd bill switched me.
I agree with the system of subsidies for the many poor of Mexico, but I pity the middle class burdened by some of the highest costs of electricity in the world.
Electricity pricing - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## Monty Floyd (Aug 31, 2010)

makaloco said:


> Since the account was still in the landlord's name, they would have calculated the average of your eight months plus the landlord's previous four months. On Tarifa 1A you need to keep your average under 300 kWh /month in order to avoid the DAC (see below).
> 
> I'm on Tarifa 1D (hotter summers by CFE definitions) with a 1,000 kWh /mo DAC cutoff, and my average over the past year was 216 kWh /mo. No AC or heat, but I do have five large ceiling fans, a swimming pool system, a security alarm system, two water pressure pumps, a large fridge, a washing machine, several smaller gadgets, and all the stuff you have except a TV. My bills usually run between 300-400 pesos every two months. It seems odd that you'd be using more power than I am.
> 
> ...


Oh! OK, thanks for the explanation. I'm screwed! I don't know what is sucking up all the juice. Since changing the account into my name, I have been checking the meter closely and I have been averaging 10 kWh/day.


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## conorkilleen (Apr 28, 2010)

My tariff rate is 1C and I was averaging last month with the AC on at night 47.3 kwh per day...ouch. I am checking my meter too every day. its lower without the AC for sure. Down to around less than 20 per day. If I can at least cut the usage in half I will be happy but I think we will need the AC at some point.


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## johnmex (Nov 30, 2010)

dongringo said:


> Average US electric household consumption in 2009 was
> I agree with the system of subsidies for the many poor of Mexico, but I pity the middle class burdened by some of the highest costs of electricity in the world.
> Electricity pricing - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


The problem in subsidizing electricity to the "poor" is that it does not encourage conservation by the same. They burn up the watts and don't have to pay for it.


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## conorkilleen (Apr 28, 2010)

johnmex said:


> The problem in subsidizing electricity to the "poor" is that it does not encourage conservation by the same. They burn up the watts and don't have to pay for it.


I'm not poor and they subsidized my electric here in MX. I'm sure the folks that lived here before us were not poor either. I'm glad they did take about 900 pesos off my bill or I would be poor this month. We didnt use that much electricity either...at least compared to what we use in the US. Electricity is a racket here anyway...do you REALLY think the government paid/pays for a portion of your bill? I dont think so.


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## ReefHound (Aug 9, 2010)

johnmex said:


> The problem in subsidizing electricity to the "poor" is that it does not encourage conservation by the same. They burn up the watts and don't have to pay for it.


But the tiered system in Mexico deters that because if they burn up the watts then they will start falling into the unsubsidized higher rate tiers.


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## conklinwh (Dec 19, 2009)

Question: On the CFE bill what is cargo fijo? I know translates to permanent charge. We have two properties. On one we pay DAC rate and has additional cargo fijo(2) while the 2nd is Tarifa 1 without cargo fijo.


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## Guest (Apr 27, 2011)

conklinwh said:


> Question: On the CFE bill what is cargo fijo? I know translates to permanent charge. We have two properties. On one we pay DAC rate and has additional cargo fijo(2) while the 2nd is Tarifa 1 without cargo fijo.


"cargo fijo" means fixed charge. If I remember correctly, you have water pumps on your property, and CFE has fixed charges for things that can pull large amounts of energy, such as motors. That might explain why one of your meters is charged differently, because chances are you pull a lot more energy through that meter every month, right?

Potencia refers to the potential energy that could be demanded through a specific meter. For high electricity users, this equates to a minimum charge, even if it isn't used during a particular billing period. CFE is figuring they have to have enough installed capacity to supply everyone if everyone uses a high amount of electricity, so they are going to charge for that installed capacity wherther it is needed or not. This usually would affect commercial or industrial users, but apparently it may affect residential users pulling a lot of juice too.

They also want to know the size and number of A/C units connected to a meter so they can calculate the potential usage they will have to potentially supply.


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## conklinwh (Dec 19, 2009)

GringoCArlos said:


> "cargo fijo" means fixed charge. If I remember correctly, you have water pumps on your property, and CFE has fixed charges for things that can pull large amounts of energy, such as motors. That might explain why one of your meters is charged differently, because chances are you pull a lot more energy through that meter every month, right?
> 
> Potencia refers to the potential energy that could be demanded through a specific meter. For high electricity users, this equates to a minimum charge, even if it isn't used during a particular billing period. CFE is figuring they have to have enough installed capacity to supply everyone if everyone uses a high amount of electricity, so they are going to charge for that installed capacity whether it is needed or not. This usually would affect commercial or industrial users, but apparently it may affect residential users pulling a lot of juice too.
> 
> They also want to know the size and number of A/C units connected to a meter so they can calculate the potential usage they will have to potentially supply.


I understand the definition of fixed or permanent charge and you could be right about the pumps as we have two on that property with the grey water pump. However, timing is interesting as we moved into that property early 2008. Cargo fijo didn't show up on the CFE bill in 2008/2009 when we were under Tarifa 1. It wasn't till DAC Tarifa started in 2010 that cargo fijo showed up and even then it wasn't on the 1st DAC bill in February but started with the April bill. By the way, the average usage 2008/2009 & 2010/2011 about the same.
Also, we have two pumps on our 2nd property but much lower usage so still Tarifa 1 and no cargo fijo. 
About A/C, here it is called build with adobe and open the window about 5PM.


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## RVGRINGO (May 16, 2007)

"Cargo Fija" happens when you go into the DAC rate & has nothing to do with details of your installations.


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## conklinwh (Dec 19, 2009)

Thanks, that makes sense. How do they decide cargo fijo, cargo fijo(2) or cargo fijo(X)?


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## RVGRINGO (May 16, 2007)

They don't "decide" on an individual basis. It is simply the way the formula works through the rate progressions, based on your usage and time. There are the first three basic tiers and subsidies are included. There is also a limit over time and when that is exceeded, the computer eliminates the subsidies and the lower three tiers. Your account becomes a high consumer account (DAC) with a fixed fee plus actual usage at the highest appropriate rate, which can actually quadruple your billing. To get off that rate, you must keep your usage down for several billing cycles before the computer drops you back to the original three tiered system. It is all quite automatic and explained at the CFE website or at CFE offices if you are fluent enough in Spanish. However, details vary with different geographic areas where seasonal subsidies or rate changes may adjust for severe climate. As such, there is no single answer for everyone in Mexico, but the system is very fair and does serve to encourage conservation of electricity. One needs to understand that turning off entertainment centers via an outlet strip, not having pools or fountains with pumps, using all CFL lighting, throwing away the crock pot and toaster oven, etc., all play an important part of adjusting to life in Mexico. In ten years, we've always stayed in the lower three tiers; usually the lower two. It isn't difficult. Keep your computer off when not in use and unplug phone chargers, etc. that you don't need at night or when out.


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