# Summer Water Costs



## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Our water bills are for most of the year no more than 30 to 40 euros a month but in summer they at least double. Our last year's summer three months' bill was 430 euros.
Now most of that is because we have a lot of lawn and plants that need water. But I seem to remember Strav once posting something about evaporation from swimmimg pools.
Our pool has automatic top-up so I have no idea how much we're losing but it would be interesting to know how much that adds to our water bill in summer.
I'm guessing our pool is the 'usual' size....about 8m by 4m with maximum depth of 2m so say - 40 to 50 cubic metres?
So Strav, if you're around, can you enlighten me? Or anyone else for that matter.
From my Aguagest bill I note that water at the rate we use it is 1.25 cents a cubic metre...does that sound right or have I misread it


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

mrypg9 said:


> Our water bills are for most of the year no more than 30 to 40 euros a month but in summer they at least double. Our last year's summer three months' bill was 430 euros.
> Now most of that is because we have a lot of lawn and plants that need water. But I seem to remember Strav once posting something about evaporation from swimmimg pools.
> Our pool has automatic top-up so I have no idea how much we're losing but it would be interesting to know how much that adds to our water bill in summer.
> I'm guessing our pool is the 'usual' size....about 8m by 4m with maximum depth of 2m so say - 40 to 50 cubic metres?
> ...


We do not have a large garden, but what we had, was lawn. We changed it to gravel, put in a timed watering system and changed plants for native ones. The water bill was halved


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## stevelin (Apr 25, 2009)

This time of year we loss about 1/2 a tile a week if that helps ( we have a 8x4 pool)


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## Aron (Apr 30, 2013)

mrypg9 said:


> Our water bills are for most of the year no more than 30 to 40 euros a month but in summer they at least double. Our last year's summer three months' bill was 430 euros.
> Now most of that is because we have a lot of lawn and plants that need water. But I seem to remember Strav once posting something about evaporation from swimmimg pools.
> Our pool has automatic top-up so I have no idea how much we're losing but it would be interesting to know how much that adds to our water bill in summer.
> I'm guessing our pool is the 'usual' size....about 8m by 4m with maximum depth of 2m so say - 40 to 50 cubic metres?
> ...


Our water and refuse rates never vary. We pay €62 twice a year. We are allowed to use 90,000 litres every six months, but if we exceed that, we can use another 90.000 litres every 6 months at a cost of about €10 euros for each period. So, if you want to know how much 90,000 litres is, it's about twice the amount in your swimming pool. So bearing that in mind, for normal water for a year, I can use 4 times the amount in your swimming pool.
My neighbour had automatic refill, but after he went on holiday, we noticed a lot of water on his terrace. His automatic refill got stuck open, so beware of that if you go away.
Evaporation of water is dependant on the weather conditions. Very windy conditions can suck the water out of your pool so to speak, even in winter. In summer, with the heat you will lose a certain amount, but if it gets windy it could double the amount of evaporation.


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## jimenato (Nov 21, 2009)

Our pool loses about 1 tile (1cm) every week. Say yours loses the same, 1 cm X 400 X 800 = 0.32 cubic metres (if my maths is right:fingerscrossed X the cost of a cubic metre of water every week. 

I've just looked at my bill and I have absolutely no idea how much a cubic metre of water is.

I would say that watering the garden uses vastly more than topping up the pool.


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## CapnBilly (Jun 7, 2011)

Mary, I would expect to lose between 1 and 2 tiles of water per week at this time of year. I top my pool up manually. So for say 8 weeks that's about 8m3 of water, so about €18 over the summer. I have my garden on a drip irrigation, which runs for about 15 mins in the evening. My water bill to September is normally about €75, and the rest of the year about €50 a quarter. €1.25 a m3 sounds about right (although mine is about €1 - but I.m with a local company, not Aguaest)., but you will normally pay for sewage as well, which is generally charged at around 80-90% of usage. €430 is a lot of water.

Note- just seen Jimenato's post. It must depend upon pool location, sun and wind etc. Check your tile size, mine are definitely 2cm.


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## jimenato (Nov 21, 2009)

CapnBilly said:


> Mary, I would expect to lose between 1 and 2 tiles of water per week at this time of year. I top my pool up manually. So for say 8 weeks that's about 8m3 of water, so about €18 over the summer. I have my garden on a drip irrigation, which runs for about 15 mins in the evening. My water bill to September is normally about €75, and the rest of the year about €50 a quarter. €1.25 a m3 sounds about right (although mine is about €1 - but I.m with a local company, not Aguaest)., but you will normally pay for sewage as well, which is generally charged at around 80-90% of usage.
> 
> Note- just seen Jimenato's post. It must depend upon pool location, sun and wind etc. Check your tile size, mine are definitely 2cm.


Yes - just checked and you're right - 2cm - so double it - it's still only around 1 Cubic Metre per week.


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## Aron (Apr 30, 2013)

jimenato said:


> Our pool loses about 1 tile (1cm) every week. Say yours loses the same, 1 cm X 400 X 800 = 0.32 cubic metres (if my maths is right:fingerscrossed X the cost of a cubic metre of water every week.
> 
> I've just looked at my bill and I have absolutely no idea how much a cubic metre of water is.
> 
> I would say that watering the garden uses vastly more than topping up the pool.


A cubic hectometre is one million litres, I think a cubic metre is one thousand litres

If you look at the embalses website, all reservoirs, their capacity is in hectometres


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Pesky Wesky said:


> We do not have a large garden, but what we had, was lawn. We changed it to gravel, put in a timed watering system and changed plants for native ones. The water bill was halved


I'd like to do that but we can't, really. We have a front and back lawn but also what is really a field. The front and back lawn are shaded - we have twenty-three mature trees - so the grass is green most of the summer. It's the field that gets burnt unless we irrigate.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

CapnBilly said:


> Mary, I would expect to lose between 1 and 2 tiles of water per week at this time of year. I top my pool up manually. So for say 8 weeks that's about 8m3 of water, so about €18 over the summer. I have my garden on a drip irrigation, which runs for about 15 mins in the evening. My water bill to September is normally about €75, and the rest of the year about €50 a quarter. €1.25 a m3 sounds about right (although mine is about €1 - but I.m with a local company, not Aguaest)., but you will normally pay for sewage as well, which is generally charged at around 80-90% of usage. €430 is a lot of water.
> 
> Note- just seen Jimenato's post. It must depend upon pool location, sun and wind etc. Check your tile size, mine are definitely 2cm.


Thanks, Cap'n and others. Yes, sewerage is 50% of the bill.
So filling a 'normal' sized pool would cost around 300 euros at the most, I reckon.


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## extranjero (Nov 16, 2012)

Aron said:


> Our water and refuse rates never vary. We pay €62 twice a year. We are allowed to use 90,000 litres every six months, but if we exceed that, we can use another 90.000 litres every 6 months at a cost of about €10 euros for each period. So, if you want to know how much 90,000 litres is, it's about twice the amount in your swimming pool. So bearing that in mind, for normal water for a year, I can use 4 times the amount in your swimming pool.
> My neighbour had automatic refill, but after he went on holiday, we noticed a lot of water on his terrace. His automatic refill got stuck open, so beware of that if you go away.
> Evaporation of water is dependant on the weather conditions. Very windy conditions can suck the water out of your pool so to speak, even in winter. In summer, with the heat you will lose a certain amount, but if it gets windy it could double the amount of evaporation.


Why is your water bill exceptionally low?
Someone posted it costs approx 300 euros to fill a pool, yet on another post op wrote that a pool holds 1,500 euros worth of water-who is right?


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## jimenato (Nov 21, 2009)

Aron said:


> A cubic hectometre is one million litres, I think a cubic metre is one thousand litres
> 
> If you look at the embalses website, all reservoirs, their capacity is in hectometres


Sorry Aron - me being confusing. I couldn't work out_ the cost_ of a cubic metre from my bill.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

extranjero said:


> Why is your water bill exceptionally low?
> Someone posted it costs approx 300 euros to fill a pool, yet on another post op wrote that a pool holds 1,500 euros worth of water-who is right?


No way could it be 1500 euros, unless of course you were filling the municipal pool. Someone posted that you could buy wate, presumably from a tanker, to fill a pool at a cost of 200 plus euros so 300 euros would be about right, I guess.

If you have your own pool and gardens your water bill will be higher than if you have a communal pool and gardens, obviously but then your community charge will be much less. It probably more or less balances.


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## crookesey (May 22, 2008)

extranjero said:


> Why is your water bill exceptionally low?
> Someone posted it costs approx 300 euros to fill a pool, yet on another post op wrote that a pool holds 1,500 euros worth of water-who is right?


I'm guilty of the latter, I've no idea of the size of pool, the guy who told me gave me the figure. However a tanker and driver with a swimming pool full of water, taking a few hours to fill said pool ain't going to do it for peanuts.


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## CapnBilly (Jun 7, 2011)

mrypg9 said:


> No way could it be 1500 euros, unless of course you were filling the municipal pool. Someone posted that you could buy wate, presumably from a tanker, to fill a pool at a cost of 200 plus euros so 300 euros would be about right, I guess.


I fill my pool from my water pipe (I just turn the tap on thats attached to the filter). I estimate it costs me about €50. I've just checked my bill and I pay €0.90 per m3 (inc sewage and IVA), but there's no shortage of water where I live, the water table in the valley I overlook is generally pretty high. 

Based on your water cost Mary, it would cost about €100, assuming you fill it the same way. What I do know is it takes an awful long time. The last time I filled it it took about 30 hours.


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## crookesey (May 22, 2008)

I do know that filling an empty pool from a domestic tap is illegal in Spain, if it is totally impossible for a good sized pool to cost €1,500 to fill I would be interested to know how long it takes to fill one from a tanker.


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## CapnBilly (Jun 7, 2011)

crookesey said:


> I do know that filling an empty pool from a domestic tap is illegal in Spain, if it is totally impossible for a good sized pool to cost &#128;1,500 to fill I would be interested to know how long it takes to fill one from a tanker.


Could you point me to the law where it says this.


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## Aron (Apr 30, 2013)

jimenato said:


> Sorry Aron - me being confusing. I couldn't work out_ the cost_ of a cubic metre from my bill.


Water bills look confusing, but I can work out mine. I can't help you unless I saw your bill. Every area is different. I never worry about it. I just pay €124 a year, not really worried how they reach that figure.


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## Aron (Apr 30, 2013)

crookesey said:


> I do know that filling an empty pool from a domestic tap is illegal in Spain, if it is totally impossible for a good sized pool to cost €1,500 to fill I would be interested to know how long it takes to fill one from a tanker.


Never heard of that one. Everybody I know including hotels fill their pool from the mains.


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## Aron (Apr 30, 2013)

mrypg9 said:


> No way could it be 1500 euros, unless of course you were filling the municipal pool. Someone posted that you could buy wate, presumably from a tanker, to fill a pool at a cost of 200 plus euros so 300 euros would be about right, I guess.
> 
> If you have your own pool and gardens your water bill will be higher than if you have a communal pool and gardens, obviously but then your community charge will be much less. It probably more or less balances.


You have to bear in mind that every town / region, their billing and water usage is different. Mine is relatively cheap. Our water comes from a huge reservoir that no one can see, it's inside of a mountain.


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## crookesey (May 22, 2008)

CapnBilly said:


> Could you point me to the law where it says this.


There was a thread on this very forum a couple of years ago that stated the same, I am assured by a friend who owns a villa in Benissa that it is illegal to fill an empty pool from a mains supply. In an area where you can be fined for washing a car with a hose pipe I would tend to agree with my friend. If you wish to check out the legalites and prove me wrong by all means do so, but the guy who told me doesn't throw his money away.


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## Aron (Apr 30, 2013)

extranjero said:


> Why is your water bill exceptionally low?
> Someone posted it costs approx 300 euros to fill a pool, yet on another post op wrote that a pool holds 1,500 euros worth of water-who is right?


My water rates aren't exceptionally low, everyone else's are exceptionally high.


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## Aron (Apr 30, 2013)

crookesey said:


> There was a thread on this very forum a couple of years ago that stated the same, I am assured by a friend who owns a villa in Benissa that it is illegal to fill an empty pool from a mains supply. In an area where you can be fined for washing a car with a hose pipe I would tend to agree with my friend. If you wish to check out the legalites and prove me wrong by all means do so, but the guy who told me doesn't throw his money away.


Yes, I have heard about the law that it is illegal to wash your car in the street, but everybody does. Everybody also use mains water to fill their pool. I have no idea if there is a law though. My neighbour had a problem last year and filled his twice last year. He still never reached his total domestic usage!


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## CapnBilly (Jun 7, 2011)

crookesey said:


> There was a thread on this very forum a couple of years ago that stated the same, I am assured by a friend who owns a villa in Benissa that it is illegal to fill an empty pool from a mains supply. In an area where you can be fined for washing a car with a hose pipe I would tend to agree with my friend. If you wish to check out the legalites and prove me wrong by all means do so, but the guy who told me doesn't throw his money away.


So, you don't actually know that it's illegal, it was a mate who told you, plus an old thread, which is just full of the same type of comments. Unfortunately, forums are full of similar types of comment, most of which are incorrect, and we spend a lot of time on this forum correcting misinformation. This may or may not be correct, and I'm not really interested in proving you right or wrong, as I've only filled my pool once when I moved in over 5 ago, and I have no intention of filling it again, as I manage the condition of my pool quite carefully.


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## crookesey (May 22, 2008)

CapnBilly said:


> So, you don't actually know that it's illegal, it was a mate who told you, plus an old thread, which is just full of the same type of comments. Unfortunately, forums are full of similar types of comment, most of which are incorrect, and we spend a lot of time on this forum correcting misinformation. This may or may not be correct, and I'm not really interested in proving you right or wrong, as I've only filled my pool once when I moved in over 5 ago, and I have no intention of filling it again, as I manage the condition of my pool quite carefully.


I'm not really bothered, he told me what he believes to be the truth, I'm not going to call him a liar am I? This forum is packed full of information without any legal documentary back up, so neither of us know the correct answer as both of us are basing our so called knowledge without the correct legal definition.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

CapnBilly said:


> So, you don't actually know that it's illegal, it was a mate who told you, plus an old thread, which is just full of the same type of comments. Unfortunately, forums are full of similar types of comment, most of which are incorrect, and we spend a lot of time on this forum correcting misinformation. This may or may not be correct, and I'm not really interested in proving you right or wrong, as I've only filled my pool once when I moved in over 5 ago, and I have no intention of filling it again, as I manage the condition of my pool quite carefully.


Yes, we do get a fair amount of misinformation of the 'my mate told me' type....but it soon gets corrected, fortunately. It's usually to do with cars, though....
The cost of water here above a certain level of usage is I think €1.05 a cubic metre. I also have never needed to fill my pool which is why I was curious as to how much evaporated. Not much seems to be the answer.

Whether it is 'illegal' or not to fill a pool from the mains is irrelevant since as Aron points out everyone does it and I'm sure the policia have better things to do than snoop on pool fillers. I doubt Aquagest are bothered either.

A quick scan through the local Spanish paper yields no ads for bulk water purchases.


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## olivefarmer (Oct 16, 2012)

We have a community water supply not public. We pay about 80 euros a year for lovely tested water. One advantage of living in the campo proper.

Pools are filled from wells as that would be deemed unfair summer usage. Winter would be fine.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Aron said:


> You have to bear in mind that every town / region, their billing and water usage is different. Mine is relatively cheap. Our water comes from a huge reservoir that no one can see, it's inside of a mountain.


Lucky you, Aron. I paid ober €600 last year.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Aron said:


> You have to bear in mind that every town / region, their billing and water usage is different. Mine is relatively cheap. Our water comes from a huge reservoir that no one can see, it's inside of a mountain.


Lucky you, Aron. I paid over €600 last year.



Sorry, duplicate..Bloody IPad...I'm tapping with my finger as my stylus broke.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Change of topic ....I changed the sand in the pool filter for glass....crystals.
The water is much clearer and softer. Well worth doing if your filter needs changing, it's not expensive and lasts ten years.


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## Aron (Apr 30, 2013)

mrypg9 said:


> Lucky you, Aron. I paid over €600 last year.
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry, duplicate..Bloody IPad...I'm tapping with my finger as my stylus broke.


We have relatives who live near Puerto Banus and they would wish theirs could be as low as yours. Theirs is higher. The further you get out into carrot cruncher territory, the cheaper it gets.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Aron said:


> Yes, I have heard about the law that it is illegal to wash your car in the street, but everybody does. Everybody also use mains water to fill their pool. I have no idea if there is a law though. My neighbour had a problem last year and filled his twice last year. He still never reached his total domestic usage!


I'm not sure, but I think whether you are permitted to fill your swimming pool with tap water depends on
your local water authority
your town hall
your local environment
the weather conditions of any particular year ie drought or not/ water table mucked up or not

As to whether you get caught or not, or whether it's enforced or not I would have thought it was more a question of civics like double parking for 20 mins while the driver chats to a friend 'cos the traffic warden's 3 streets away and isn't going to get caught.
Water shortage is a growing problem in Spain and should be addressed as a serious problem by everyone.


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## Aron (Apr 30, 2013)

Pesky Wesky said:


> I'm not sure, but I think whether you are permitted to fill your swimming pool with tap water depends on
> your local water authority
> your town hall
> your local environment
> ...


There is no water shortage in Andalucia. Our reservoir has 87% full and it's late August. During last winter they let out 40 million litres for safety issues. You can check any reservoir by looking on Embalses.net - Estado de los Embalses, pantanos y presas de España

When my neighbour had his pool built, the local authority told him they would fit a metre before he filled it. Doesn't sound like a case of getting caught!


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

mrypg9 said:


> Whether it is 'illegal' or not to fill a pool from the mains is irrelevant since as Aron points out everyone does it and I'm sure the policia have better things to do than snoop on pool fillers. I doubt Aquagest are bothered either.


Mary, you have shocked me!!
This deserves a dislike!!


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

crookesey said:


> I do know that filling an empty pool from a domestic tap is illegal in Spain, if it is totally impossible for a good sized pool to cost &#128;1,500 to fill I would be interested to know how long it takes to fill one from a tanker.


Not where I live in Spain it isn't. Our water company is perfectly happy for you to fill your pool from the tap


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Aron said:


> There is no water shortage in Andalucia. Our reservoir has 87% full and it's late August. During last winter they let out 40 million litres for safety issues. You can check any reservoir by looking on Embalses.net - Estado de los Embalses, pantanos y presas de España
> 
> When my neighbour had his pool built, the local authority told him they would fit a metre before he filled it. Doesn't sound like a case of getting caught!


Please don't misunderstand or (misinterpret!) me.
I have no idea what's going on ATM, but I would imagine, as you say, that THIS year there are few problems as it rained a ton this spring, so I'm not accusing anyone of getting,or not getting caught.
I'm saying that I believe, but I'm not sure, that this will change from year to year, and once again, I don't know but it's probably the responsibility of the pool owner to inform her/himself of what's happening.
And then to add that _personally_, I think that, like so many other things, whether the police come round or not to check shouldn't come in to whether people comply with the regulations or not.
But, maybe that's a lot to ask of the average pool owner :bolt:


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## el romeral (May 8, 2012)

We have our own well so the water is free which is good as we use about 10000 litres a day in the summer months. The electricity for the well pump is about 100E a month at this time. 
Really need to get our channel water connection sorted out as this is totally free water and readily available. We used to use it for the fruit trees.


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## Aron (Apr 30, 2013)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Please don't misunderstand or (misinterpret!) me.
> I have no idea what's going on ATM, but I would imagine, as you say, that THIS year there are few problems as it rained a ton this spring, so I'm not accusing anyone of getting,or not getting caught.
> I'm saying that I believe, but I'm not sure, that this will change from year to year, and once again, I don't know but it's probably the responsibility of the pool owner to inform her/himself of what's happening.
> And then to add that _personally_, I think that, like so many other things, whether the police come round or not to check shouldn't come in to whether people comply with the regulations or not.
> But, maybe that's a lot to ask of the average pool owner :bolt:


I know this may sound strange to some people, but very occasionally the local police have been the ones reading the water metres.. Not so much these days. If I need to ask about anything concerning permissions I go to see my local counsillor and ask him. Nobody here is doing anything wrong. For goodness sakes, the Spanish wash their terraces everyday. 5 years ago we did have water problems, but they still washed their terraces.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Mary, you have shocked me!!
> This deserves a dislike!!


Not really.  For one thing, as has been pointed out, there is no 'law' against this usage of water. There are, according to shortage and weather conditions, locally applicable bans which are usually very temporary. There are two other points here: firstly, there's no water shortage here. As Aron points out, we don't have a water shortage, in this part of Andalucia at least .
Secondly, if indeed there were such a law,there is nothing worse than a law that is universally ignored. It brings other laws into disrepute. If there is a water shortage then yes, it would be very antisocial as well as illegal to ignore a ban of that kind. But there isn't and the issue only arose because of what someone's mate said.

If it were illegal to use water to fill a pool it would presumably be equally illegal to use water to irrigate your lawn, geraniums etc. Yet walking to the village we hear early in the morning and late at night the gentle hissing of irrigation systems. No problem here, the grass is green and public verges in our village are traps for the unwary who can get soaked by the very many sprinklers.

If there were a ban I'd respect it as I did when we had a ban in the UK several years back. Just as I don't drive a UK plated car and pay taxes.
I do pay a worker 'on the black' though but it was the force of your argument that persuaded me it wasn't a mortal sin in this economic climate and I'm glad you did.

Now...must turn off the sprinklers...Another scorcher ahead..


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

If there is indeed a water shortage then the enormous usage by golf courses should be thrown into the discussion.
One could argue with some justification that the tourist economy is very dependent on what could be construed as the profligate use of water. Whatever one thinks of golf tourism , it plays an important role in the economy and golf courses need a lot of water.
Ditto hotels which often have extensive and luxurious gardens. 
Ditto communal gardens in urbs.
Ditto the beautifully maintained verges and flower beds in towns and villages across Spain.

Estepona Ayto has recently embarked upon a programme of tarting up the casca antigua so that it is now one of the most beautiful in Andalucia, well worth a visit. As well as recobbling the narrow streets and generally 'tidying up', the Ayto has embarked upon a programme of giving plants in tubs and wall holders to the residents of the streets but the Ayto sees to the daily watering.

All of these activities use massive amounts of water when taken together and quite frankly put the issue of filling a pool, which we are reliably told costs around 100 euros -not 1500 and which is in practice done very seldom if the pool is properly maintained, into very tiny perspective.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Mary, you have shocked me!!
> This deserves a dislike!!


One final thought on 'law-breaking'.....there are times when people have had to resort to law-breaking to remedy blatant injustice. As long as you are prepared to submit to the punishment then actions that contravene a law or are intended to draw attention to the perceived injustice of that law are in fact acts to be admired, not condemned. A prime example is the civil rights movement in the US. 
Of course that principle doesn't justify violence and the action has to be proportionate. Last week Green Party MP Caroline Lucas was arrested at a fracking protest. I don't know whether I think fracking is a Good Thing or not but in the eyes of many Ms Lucas took a principled stance.t in a democracy we all have the right and I would say the duty to be thoughtful about the laws we are asked to obey.

I'm thinking about this today because of the detention of David Miranda at Heathrow under Labour's 'terror' laws. But that's worthy of a thread of its own, if anyone is bothered...


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## crookesey (May 22, 2008)

Can someone post the time it takes for a tanker driver to fill a decent sized pool from empty, we could then work out if the cheaper figures are viable. I know that tanked LPG in the UK is expensive because of delivery costs, surely water in Spain would be similar.

I am not asking for the Holy Grail, surely someone gas had an empty pool filled by a tanker.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Simple. Find a company that provides such a service, ring and ask them.

If it were cheaper to fill an empty pool from a tanker then everyone would be making use of such a service rather than resorting to the mains and there would be a plethora of ads in the press, on lampposts, trees...in fact, like a rash all over us...
But then a pool, if properly maintained, requires filling only once, as has been pointed out by the Cap'n.


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## Aron (Apr 30, 2013)

crookesey said:


> Can someone post the time it takes for a tanker driver to fill a decent sized pool from empty, we could then work out if the cheaper figures are viable. I know that tanked LPG in the UK is expensive because of delivery costs, surely water in Spain would be similar.
> 
> I am not asking for the Holy Grail, surely someone gas had an empty pool filled by a tanker.


In 35 years I've never seen a pool filled by a tanker. I have seen a tanker fill a deposito for someone with no mains water. It is a laborious process. The tanker was about the third of the size of a petrol tanker. It won't be as expensive as the UK, nothing is!


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## Aron (Apr 30, 2013)

We only have a small pool. Last year we had a problem and it was refilled twice from the tap. Our total usage of water for our house last year was just one quarter of our allowance. We are allowed to fill our pool from the tap, there is no logistical way of filling every pool in the valley by tanker. For a start, there aren't enough tankers, or the manpower, let alone the amount of time it would take to fill a pool once the tanker found the place.


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## olivefarmer (Oct 16, 2012)

mrypg9 said:


> Simple. Find a company that provides such a service, ring and ask them.
> 
> If it were cheaper to fill an empty pool from a tanker then everyone would be making use of such a service rather than resorting to the mains and there would be a plethora of ads in the press, on lampposts, trees...in fact, like a rash all over us...
> But then a pool, if properly maintained, requires filling only once, as has been pointed out by the Cap'n.


Eight years ago, a neighbour had their large pool filled by tanker. The operation was a service offered by the local builders merchant. From memory it was 120 euros a tank. Each tank was 10 cubic metres. The water was drawn(by licence) from a pool in a stream 20 km away. The main cost is the transport.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

To Mary and others on this thread 
The comment about disliking Mary's post was tongue in cheek.
I am however surprised by the attitude that if others do it why shouldn't I, or if the police don't come round then what's the harm. (think of those dog poo threads!! Around here that was the attitude and I'm glad to say it's no longer necessary for there to be a policeman behind someone to make them pick up after their dog) If that's not what was being said, then good, I'm glad!!

I am also not saying that anyone is/ is going to/ has broken the law. I clearly said that I _think_ water restrictions depend on a lot of different factors.

What I did say is that Spain has a big water problem and it needs to be taken seriously, so, even if the town hall/ local water authority whoever hasn't said anything this year it unfortunately doesn't mean that there is an abundance of water. So much water is used in private pools, Golf courses where grass wouldn't normally grow, let alonne green golf grass, for tourist centres etc etc that for example, the water table has been permanently effected in some areas.

I aplologise if there has been any misunderstanding.


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## Aron (Apr 30, 2013)

Pesky Wesky said:


> To Mary and others on this thread
> The comment about disliking Mary's post was tongue in cheek.
> I am however surprised by the attitude that if others do it why shouldn't I, or if the police don't come round then what's the harm. (think of those dog poo threads!! Around here that was the attitude and I'm glad to say it's no longer necessary for there to be a policeman behind someone to make them pick up after their dog) If that's not what was being said, then good, I'm glad!!
> 
> ...


Water problems historically have been in a 10 year cycle. I remember in the mid 1990 Isten reservoir got down to about two weeks of water. As a result, Marbella built a desalination plant, but the drought ended and the desalination plant never got used. In La Vinuela, 4 years ago it got down to just 9% of capacity, but the drought ended and it has remained well stocked ever since. La Vinuela also had a leak. Not the dam fortunately. That has helped with the water levels of 87%. I have no doubt a drought will be with us in the next few years. I live close to La Vinuela, but our water comes out of the mountain close by. If you visit Alcaucin village, in the main Square there is spring water coming out of 6 pipes. It comes out of those pipes continually throughout the year. There is never a shortage. Perhaps that is why we have no water problems. 
For anyone that has never been to Alcaucin, it is an interesting place to visit, if for no other reason but to try the water.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Pesky Wesky said:


> To Mary and others on this thread
> The comment about disliking Mary's post was tongue in cheek.
> I am however surprised by the attitude that if others do it why shouldn't I, or if the police don't come round then what's the harm. (think of those dog poo threads!! Around here that was the attitude and I'm glad to say it's no longer necessary for there to be a policeman behind someone to make them pick up after their dog) If that's not what was being said, then good, I'm glad!!
> 
> ...


PW, you know you need never apologise to me and I doubt very much if anyone else was offended.  Once again your comment made me think about the things we do often without thinking.
We've cleared up the unnecessary confusion over whether using mains water is 'illegal' or not so the blanket 'anti-social' issue doesn't apply unless there's a ban which everyone should obey.
Dog poo....that's different. There are local laws against not picking up and they should be obeyed for hygiene reasons. Same applies to horse, donkey and goat poo.
But this general point of laws noone obeys still stands. A few years back a whole raft of pointless laws was cleared away in the UK. 
I have knowingly broken the law on at least two occasions, each time being prepared to accept the punishment for my actions. One instance was a sit-down protest in Trafalgar Square against Cruise missiles.. a policeman picked me upand moved me, I sat down again and he told me to go home and stop being silly. So I did. I now regret that involvement anyway as I think we were wrong.
The second was more useful. As a young Councillor I painted yellow lines on a stretch of road where double parking made life dangerous for drivers and pedestrians. We had petitioned the police and local authority for months, years with no result. After photos appeared in the local media of me waving a paintbrush with intent we got the lines.
Sandra once committed an illegal act: she 'stole' the truck of an account customer who owed us over £4k and was heard boasting that he wasn't going to pay. We found the truck parked up, removed it and when the police came explained why. We were told that we could not do this kind of thing again to which she replied that once word got around we wouldn't have to. She was right. We kept the truck, used it to shift trailers around at our depot.

Of course I'm breaking the law paying our gardener cash in hand. I know it's wrong. But doing so has kept someone who might otherwise have been in despair in food, bottled gas...and even clothing.. So yes, I'm a law-breaker but morally I can justify my actions.


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## olivefarmer (Oct 16, 2012)

crookesey said:


> Can someone post the time it takes for a tanker driver to fill a decent sized pool from empty, we could then work out if the cheaper figures are viable. I know that tanked LPG in the UK is expensive because of delivery costs, surely water in Spain would be similar.
> 
> I am not asking for the Holy Grail, surely someone gas had an empty pool filled by a tanker.



Assuming it is an average sized pool say 70 cubic metres. 

A tanker carries 10Cu M here. Round trip. filling, 20km discharge then away. about four hours each trip. Two trips a day so 3 and a half days. Might be less if the access roads are better, point where water collected from is closer, more powerful pump for filling. You might get three in a day.


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## crookesey (May 22, 2008)

olivefarmer said:


> Assuming it is an average sized pool say 70 cubic metres.
> 
> A tanker carries 10Cu M here. Round trip. filling, 20km discharge then away. about four hours each trip. Two trips a day so 3 and a half days. Might be less if the access roads are better, point where water collected from is closer, more powerful pump for filling. You might get three in a day.


So if I read you correctly this would take a total of 28 hours to fill the pool. The  €100 price works out at €3.57 per hour, whilst the €1,500 price works out at €57.69 per hour, a taxi from Malaga Airport to Calahonda coincidentally costs €58.00, but only takes 25 minutes.

Any comments guys?


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

olivefarmer said:


> Eight years ago, a neighbour had their large pool filled by tanker. The operation was a service offered by the local builders merchant. From memory it was 120 euros a tank. Each tank was 10 cubic metres. The water was drawn(by licence) from a pool in a stream 20 km away. The main cost is the transport.


So if I needed to fill my pool and do it via a tanker then it would cost me around 400 euros, 500 at the most as compared to under 200 euros from the mains.
But why the hell would I or anyone choose to use this method of filling a pool if we had an alternative such as...the mains? Assuming of course there was no ban in operation at the time of need.
And if there were a water shortgage then wouldn't the stream be dry?
Seems no-one posting makes use of tanker delivery of water .


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## Aron (Apr 30, 2013)

olivefarmer said:


> Assuming it is an average sized pool say 70 cubic metres.
> 
> A tanker carries 10Cu M here. Round trip. filling, 20km discharge then away. about four hours each trip. Two trips a day so 3 and a half days. Might be less if the access roads are better, point where water collected from is closer, more powerful pump for filling. You might get three in a day.


If an averaged sized pool was 70 cubic litres, that would amount to 70,000 litres of water which weighs 70 tonnes. That would take an awful lot of transporting. I personally would say an average pool on a terrace would be 40 cubic litres, but even then, that still equates to 40 tonnes. 
Most of the roads in our valley are only wide enough for one car with overtaking areas. There must be thousands of villas scattered about. To sit outside someone property to fill a pool could block the road for ages.


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## gus-lopez (Jan 4, 2010)

Here it is illegal to fill a pool from either mains domestic water or irrigation water. 
tankers are the legal method. Price varies between 80-120€ per 10,000 litres. we also have articulated tankers carrying 25,000l. The more you have the cheaper it is.
It takes approx. 10 minutes to fill a 25,000l tanker here & about 20 minutes for it to discharge(gravity).
Some years back we filled a friends pool of 170m3 in 4 hours from tankers.
Next door in Puerto Lumbreras an increase on your domestic bill will have an accompanying letter asking that you check your system for leaks. An increase of 2 or 3 times & it will state that if the following usage is as high you will be cut off.
It is illegal everywhere to wash a car in the street. It is meant to be rigidly enforced due to environmental pollution concerns.Why do you think there are so many stand-alone car washes , all capture used water & recycle.

One thing I notice on the thread is that all the cheap water , as with everything else like car tax ,etc; is in Andalucia. It might be an idea if they started charging the going rate instead of relying on the handouts from Mickbcn & Jocatalunya's tax payments otherwise when the cataluñans bailout it'll look like Syria down there!


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## Aron (Apr 30, 2013)

gus-lopez said:


> Here it is illegal to fill a pool from either mains domestic water or irrigation water.
> tankers are the legal method. Price varies between 80-120€ per 10,000 litres. we also have articulated tankers carrying 25,000l. The more you have the cheaper it is.
> It takes approx. 10 minutes to fill a 25,000l tanker here & about 20 minutes for it to discharge(gravity).
> Some years back we filled a friends pool of 170m3 in 4 hours from tankers.
> ...


In some parts of Andalucia in the Marbella Puerto Banus areas, the cost of water and car tax is the highest, or on a par with the highest tax in any area in Spain. The further out into the country you get, it becomes cheaper.
As for looking like Syria, please be rational!


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## olivefarmer (Oct 16, 2012)

mrypg9 said:


> So if I needed to fill my pool and do it via a tanker then it would cost me around 400 euros, 500 at the most as compared to under 200 euros from the mains.
> But why the hell would I or anyone choose to use this method of filling a pool if we had an alternative such as...the mains? Assuming of course there was no ban in operation at the time of need.
> And if there were a water shortgage then wouldn't the stream be dry?
> Seems no-one posting makes use of tanker delivery of water .



Simple. Where we are we have a daily quota (so many litres) . If you go above that 
a) you pay more
b) there is a very real risk of the water supply for others being compromised.
c) it is a neighbourly think to do to avoid creating an incident.

Not everywhere has abundant water . Ours is very very cheap but abundant it ain't.


I just gave you an example of someone using a water tanker to fill their pool. Maybe there haven't been that many pools built in the last few years needing filling. Mine has been filled 3 times in 8 years but each time for free from a well. Not everyone can maintain their pool for ever on one fill!


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## Aron (Apr 30, 2013)

It would seem to me that the laws on water usage and allowances vary from Province to province, even within communities There is no point in arguing who is right and who is wrong. I came to Spain to live in a rural area. If I need to know anything, I ask my local Spanish friends. Is it lawful, I have no idea, it is their country and they've been doing it for a long time before the British Invasion. There is nothing worse, and I see it occasionally where Brits tell the Spanish not to do things. It is their country and I like to live my life the way they do.
As for filling pools by tanker, if that is the law in that area, so be it, but We live in a mountainous area with very narrow steep carrils. You simply couldn't do it. We live in a huge valley with houses scatter everywhere and nearly every house has a pool. 
All the hotels empty their pools in Winter to keep the running costs down. How they get refilled I do not know, but in 35 years I've never seen a tanker to fill a pool.
Andalucia has a fantastic system of reservoirs. Water management is a good as anywhere. And one more point, every time we have a pee at home, we don't flush the loo. Neither do our neighbours. We feel it to be a waste of water!


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## Aron (Apr 30, 2013)

I now understand the variations of water usage witchin the provinces. The region of Murcia has total reservoir capacity of 59 million litres. Valenciana has total capacity of approximate 1100 million litres. Catalonia has a capacity of approximate 2000 million litres, whereby Andalucia has a capacity of nearly 10,000 million litres.
The difference between Murcia region and Andalucia is huge. In fact, considering Catalonia, there total capacity is just one fifth of Andalucia. Andalucia is the largest province, but get away from the coast, much of the interior is empty.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Aron said:


> It would seem to me that the laws on water usage and allowances vary from Province to province, even within communities There is no point in arguing who is right and who is wrong. I came to Spain to live in a rural area. If I need to know anything, I ask my local Spanish friends. Is it lawful, I have no idea, it is their country and they've been doing it for a long time before the British Invasion. There is nothing worse, and I see it occasionally where Brits tell the Spanish not to do things. It is their country and I like to live my life the way they do.
> As for filling pools by tanker, if that is the law in that area, so be it, but We live in a mountainous area with very narrow steep carrils. You simply couldn't do it. We live in a huge valley with houses scatter everywhere and nearly every house has a pool.
> All the hotels empty their pools in Winter to keep the running costs down. How they get refilled I do not know, but in 35 years I've never seen a tanker to fill a pool.
> Andalucia has a fantastic system of reservoirs. Water management is a good as anywhere. And one more point, every time we have a pee at home, we don't flush the loo. Neither do our neighbours. We feel it to be a waste of water!


You've made some interesting points in this thread, but am puzzled as to why you've mentioned more than once The Brits and The Spanish as if there was a difference between these 2 nationalities with regard to water. Do you think they consume in different ways?
What about the Scandanavians, the Moroccans, the ...?


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## Aron (Apr 30, 2013)

Pesky Wesky said:


> You've made some interesting points in this thread, but am puzzled as to why you've mentioned more than once The Brits and The Spanish as if there was a difference between these 2 nationalities with regard to water. Do you think they consume in different ways?
> What about the Scandanavians, the Moroccans, the ...?


Gordon Bennett! Well, perhaps I should have said immigrants because I have German, Iranian, and Belgian friends here. I'm just making examples. There's no difference between any of us except the Spanish empty there pools after the summer is over. I don't do that.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Yes, the more we use the more we pay....but that's to be expected. Hot summers, more usage...high prices should discourage frivolous usage.
If we were to be subject to a ban which I would of course comply with, what would happen to the golf courses, pretty flower beds in urbs etc?
A couple of weeks of the hot dry weather we've had here and everything would die off.
Are there 'exceptions' for golf courses etc? They are said to be very important in terms of tourism revenue.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Aron said:


> Gordon Bennett! Well, perhaps I should have said immigrants because I have German, Iranian, and Belgian friends here. I'm just making examples. There's no difference between any of us except the Spanish empty there pools after the summer is over. I don't do that.


So, if I understand you rightly, you don't see any difference, so then why talk about any different nationalities???
It made it unclear to me. 
(And maybe Gordon Bennett too)
Thanks for the reply anyway


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Aron said:


> Gordon Bennett! Well, perhaps I should have said immigrants because I have German, Iranian, and Belgian friends here. I'm just making examples. There's no difference between any of us *except the Spanish empty there pools after the summer is over. I don't do that*.


Not round here, Aron..full all year round. 
Well, I've learnt a few useful things from this thread. If I do manage to turn the wrong lever and empty the pool, always a possibility, I now know it won't cost be a fortune to refill it and that for the present time at least I can do so quite legally from the mains.
I must say I enjoy swimming most after dark...swimming in moonlight, unbeatable.


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## crookesey (May 22, 2008)

Aron said:


> Gordon Bennett! Well, perhaps I should have said immigrants because I have German, Iranian, and Belgian friends here. I'm just making examples. There's no difference between any of us except the Spanish empty there pools after the summer is over. I don't do that.


Yes now that you mention it, the Spanish owned and occupied homes in my favoured area of La Fustera drain their pools for the winter, I wonder why.


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## Aron (Apr 30, 2013)

crookesey said:


> Yes now that you mention it, the Spanish owned and occupied homes in my favoured area of La Fustera drain their pools for the winter, I wonder why.


A pool if kept filled still has to be maintained. I guess it's cheaper just empty and refill in the summer. As I said, if you stay within your consumption levels it costs nothing extra here. I always thought it did the grouting no good to empty a pool, perhaps I'm wrong.


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## el romeral (May 8, 2012)

The 2 Spanish families who live near us do not empty their pools in the winter. They do however stop the filter and do not add chlorine etc. Within weeks they resemple a green swamp and become home to numerous frogs (we can hear them). I do not think the Spanish like to spend money on them over the winter. Must be a lot of work come springtime though. 
Our pool has only been partly emptied once (for a leak) in 14 years.

I too heard it was not good for the grouting if a pool was empty for long periods.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

el romeral said:


> The 2 Spanish families who live near us do not empty their pools in the winter. They do however stop the filter and do not add chlorine etc. Within weeks they resemple a green swamp and become home to numerous frogs (we can hear them). I do not think the Spanish like to spend money on them over the winter. Must be a lot of work come springtime though.
> Our pool has only been partly emptied once (for a leak) in 14 years.
> 
> I too heard it was not good for the grouting if a pool was empty for long periods.


I shut my filter last winter. I won't be doing it again.
Yes, it was a lot of work come springtime.
Lesson learned.


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## gus-lopez (Jan 4, 2010)

I cannot for the life of me understand why anyone empties a pool ? 

Especially a private one. A hotel one , possibly as they don't want a green pool , if not covered , upsetting the guests . Then again an empty uncovered pool is a H&S issue so would normally be covered.

even if you do not cover it over the winter & it is not run at all you can turn the greenest slurry into clear blue in a few minutes with the addition of industrial chlorine. That's all I ever did in the UK.
Here , this year as no one is coming & I'm the only one here , I haven't even bothered taking the cover off. I refilled the pipework/sand filter , etc; with water as I always drain it over winter , so that I could clean it but the water was as clear as a bell, as it always is when the cover comes off .

Another point overlooked is dumping pool water. That is also illegal as it comes under 'environmental pollution' controls , same as washing cars. It is meant to be removed the same way that you would have a septic tank emptied.


Our Reservoirs are 94% full. In Lorca we have no need of water from anywhere for more than 3 years.

During the San Wenceslas flood ,on 28th September last year , water was entering the Puente de Embalse above Lorca 
at a rate in excess of 2,000,000 litres per second . Another gota fria on the same scale this year would lead to us all being wiped out as there is only 15% capacity left in the reservoir.
At the Algeciras Wadi reservoir the rate was similar.


Puentes > Reservoirs > Infrastructures > Information > Confederación Hidrográfica del Segura

Algeciras > Reservoirs > Infrastructures > Information > Confederación Hidrográfica del Segura


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