# B1/B2 versus WVP



## swissdude (Apr 6, 2010)

Hello all,

As a Swiss citizen, I can stay in the USA for 90 days under the visa waiver program. So far so good. Now my wife and I would like to stay longer, i.e. 180 days under the B1/B2 visa. 

I assume we will be subject to an interview at the customs when entering under B1/B2. Now if we get denied extended stay for some reason, do we alo jeopardize our 90 days under WVP or is that not a risk?

Basically my question is should we risk tryig to get 180 days and risk losing all if the officer decides we're a risk for staying permanently or should we go the "safe" route and just take the WVP 90 days as regular tourists?

Thank you.


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## EVHB (Feb 11, 2008)

If you apply for a B1/2 tourist visa, you will get an interview at the local US embassy/consulate (depending on what is available in your country). 
There they will have to prove that you are not a risk for illegal immigration or illegal work.
So you will have to show them that you have sufficient funds to bridge those 6 months you are asking for, that you have solid ties with your home country (owning a house, having a job contract, being enrolled at school,...).
If they think that’s all ok, they will grant you the visa.

And I have never heard of someone who was denied entry to the US when they showed up at the border for the first time with their B1/2.
I’ve heard stories from people who were denied entry, but that was when they were traveling to the US on a very regular basis, so that it didn’t seem to be a regular tourist anymore. But I also know from people who are going every year for 2 x 8 weeks (to visit their son and his family), without any problem.

Once you get refused at the border, you will not be able to travel on VWP (Visa Waiver Program) anymore. Even if you only want to go for 2 weeks, you will have to apply for a visa.


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## Davis1 (Feb 20, 2009)

Simple advice .. if you are not of retirement age do NOT apply for a B-2


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## Crawford (Jan 23, 2011)

Davis1 said:


> Simple advice .. if you are not of retirement age do NOT apply for a B-2


Agree with this. 

If you get refused the visa then you cannot use the VWP (because you have now been refused a visa) and will need to apply for a visa even for short vacation trips to the US.

If you are eligible for the VWP the US does not understand why you need longer than 90 days to tour the US.


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## EVHB (Feb 11, 2008)

Seriously? Is it so that in the UK people are refused a tourist visa if they are not retired? That is different from Belgium and the Netherlands, where also young people get a tourist visa as long as they can prove their ties with their home country + sufficient funds. 
Didn’t realise it made a difference what country you come from!


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## twostep (Apr 3, 2008)

As long as you have proof of sufficient binding ties to Swiss such as employment contracts, real estate, sufficient funds to support you and your wife ... and do not have any immigration intentions - B2 is not a snow bird/over 65 visa.


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## Crawford (Jan 23, 2011)

EVHB said:


> Seriously? Is it so that in the UK people are refused a tourist visa if they are not retired? That is different from Belgium and the Netherlands, where also young people get a tourist visa as long as they can prove their ties with their home country + sufficient funds.
> Didn’t realise it made a difference what country you come from!


Not saying everyone of non retirement age who applies for a B2 visa will get refused one - but have read enough forums to realise that there are plenty of folk who have applied and been refused.

As you say you need to prove ties, plus funds etc. For young people of college age who wish to travel in the US during summer vacation, showing that you have a course to return to reduces the risk of being refused. 

If you are not in college, don't have a job (so do not have the biggest tie to your home country), no mortgage etc the risk is higher.

Just pointing out the risk.


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## Crawford (Jan 23, 2011)

twostep said:


> As long as you have proof of sufficient binding ties to Swiss such as employment contracts, real estate, sufficient funds to support you and your wife ... and do not have any immigration intentions - B2 is not a snow bird/over 65 visa.


See, this is where I don't understand how people who are employed get the chance to go touring for 6 months and have a job to return to.

I worked for some great companies in my time, but none of them would have been agreeable to me going on vacation for 6 months and keeping my job open for me.

I don't think I could have afforded to tour - staying in hotels, eating out etc - for 6 months either.

Hence I could see why the US authorities wonder about the motives/intentions of those going to the States for a 6 month vacation.


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## JESSJAME5 (Oct 27, 2011)

Davis1 said:


> Simple advice .. if you are not of retirement age do NOT apply for a B-2


Why?

My friend and I got ours when we were 18. Hers was only a 1 year, mine a 5 year... Never had a problem... Of course, I got quizzed hard the first time I entered on it by crossing the border by bus from Canada. But other times were fine...


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## twostep (Apr 3, 2008)

Crawford said:


> See, this is where I don't understand how people who are employed get the chance to go touring for 6 months and have a job to return to.
> 
> I worked for some great companies in my time, but none of them would have been agreeable to me going on vacation for 6 months and keeping my job open for me.
> 
> ...


I have done it in the past and when my husband was between jobs we did the infamous "bikes across the US". Our plan was to fly a Barron to Germany but insurance threw a wrench. The workplace has changed drastically over the last few years on both sides of the water.


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## EVHB (Feb 11, 2008)

Some people take a long trip when they graduate, before they start working.
Others are using a kind of 'career interruption' possibility.
An some get un unpaid leave.


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## swissdude (Apr 6, 2010)

Thank you all for your answer. I gained quite some insight into the issue. 

Our problem is exactly this: "Prove ties, and commitment to return". Besides our good intentions, we don't have any. I am in the fortunate position to allow myself a 6 month leave before I even need to look for a new job, so there's no contract. Also, since we're moving between countries, we do not have a rental contract either. So I understand that this can be flagged as a risk. 

Looks like we're better off doing 3 months, and spent the remaining 3 in Canada or so.

Speaking of which: Would a 3 month USA, 1 month CAN and then again 2 months USA stint work? Or even 3 USA-3 CAN-3 USA, assumig I had the time? Would avoid us the hassle of flying off continent. 

Thank you.


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## EVHB (Feb 11, 2008)

No, if you travel from US to Canada or Mexico or the Carribean, they keep counting. Otherwise people would stay in the US for 89 days, go for a weekend to Canada or Mexico or a cruise in the Carribean, and come back for another 89 days. So you have to travel further away.
But be careful: 89 days US, travel to Europe/Asia/Australie for 2 weeks, and than come back to the us => big chance they will refuse entry.


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## swissdude (Apr 6, 2010)

Yeah, I ealize that the 1 weekend trip to Mexico or Canada doesn't work, but I was rather wondering about a 1 to 3 month stay. For all they know I could have been in Europe or elsewhere during that time, how will the US know my travel arrangements while I am in CAN?

I mean in general they don't really know my exit dates anyways, so even if I really flew to Europe, how could they know?

In the end I don't wanna gamble the system, I realise that certain restrictions apply and I am already grateful being admitted for 90 days wothout visa, so I really am not complaining. I am just trying to understand how it works and how my wife and I can best spend our 6 to 9 months on the North American continent.

Thanks.


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## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

Oh, they do know your exit dates, you can be sure of that. If you fly out, it's the airline that notifies them of your departure. It's a bit more touch and go if you drive into Canada, but from all accounts, they've really increased the border security, so I suspect they swipe that bar code thing in your passport and that registers your departure automatically.

They don't really care where you go, either. If you're in the US for the full 90 days, you pretty much have to stay outside the US for the next 90 days before re-entering - especially if you're returning for another 90 days.

If you have a documentable "reason" for wanting to stay 6 to 9 months in the US, then use that to apply for the appropriate visa. I see you mention in your plans "...then again 2 months USA stint work?" You do realize that you are NOT allowed to work while in the US on the VWP, don't you?
Cheers,
Bev


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## swissdude (Apr 6, 2010)

Bev,

Yes of course. It is all holidays. I might have misused the word "stint", I was not aware this could be interpreted as working gig or something. Semantics, you know


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## twostep (Apr 3, 2008)

swissdude said:


> Yeah, I ealize that the 1 weekend trip to Mexico or Canada doesn't work, but I was rather wondering about a 1 to 3 month stay. For all they know I could have been in Europe or elsewhere during that time, how will the US know my travel arrangements while I am in CAN?
> 
> I mean in general they don't really know my exit dates anyways, so even if I really flew to Europe, how could they know?
> 
> ...


.

Your entry/exit data is on file:>) You can apply for B2 or use WVP.


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## swissdude (Apr 6, 2010)

Again, thanks for the insight provided by all of you. I do have another scenario that I think could work:

89 days of USA, then flying back to Europe (wherever, let's say London or Paris). Then, maybe after a week or so we'll be flying back to Canada and spending some 3+ months there, crossing the border into US only after that time for another 89 days. 

Granted that's a lot of back and forth but it should not violate any visa rules as I have left the US for Europe and am only coming back after 3 or more months. 

Anything I missed?

Cheers


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## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

swissdude said:


> Again, thanks for the insight provided by all of you. I do have another scenario that I think could work:
> 
> 89 days of USA, then flying back to Europe (wherever, let's say London or Paris). Then, maybe after a week or so we'll be flying back to Canada and spending some 3+ months there, crossing the border into US only after that time for another 89 days.
> 
> ...


I would check on what your entry rights are for Canada before firming up your plans. I think you're only allowed the same 90 days there without a visa, which could make your 3+ months plan a bit of a stretch.
Cheers,
Bev


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## swissdude (Apr 6, 2010)

Bev,

I am less worried about the "+" than the re-entry to the US. 3 months of CAN (89 days if you will) would do just fine.


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## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

You may find this of use: https://help.cbp.gov/app/answers/detail/a_id/194/~/visa-waiver-program---eligible-countries
Cheers,
Bev


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## EVHB (Feb 11, 2008)

There are no strict rules. And I mean: if you are travelling on a VWP (= without a specific visa that you got), they can always refuse you to enter the US. If they think you are not a tourist in the strict sense of that word, if they think you might want to settle down (without a visa) in the US, if they think you are going to work without a visa, they can decide to hold you at the border and send you back home. 
Staying in the US for 89 days (or 88, 87, ...) is always a trigger to give it a closer look.


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## swissdude (Apr 6, 2010)

Evhb,
I realize this, yes. As I have no false intentions and this is really just some sabbatical time we want to spend travelling, I am going to take my chances. I'll see to it that I have some documentation of my ties to Switzerland if I can produce any. 

Bev,
Thanks, that proved helpful.


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