# Spanish tenant rights



## mona lisa (May 19, 2010)

Hi

I know this french couple who is renting a flat in Barcelona that believes the landlord is harassing them via 3rd parties, they have live in the same flat for 5 years now, their contract clearly states that after one year they can rent part of the flat giving them more rights hey believed to rent 2 free rooms they have to students.

When i visited the store downstairs from their flat and spoke to this one owner she told me that the same people who own my friends flat own the building and they where forced to rent the flat out becuase it was not occupied and someone in the building knew this and filed papers to try and rent the flat, how ever the agency decided to make sure no one in the building moved in and the new tenants where from outside, the agency did tell my friends that they did not want to rent to people in the building because 3 Mexican families already occupied both apartments on the 3rd and 4th floors and police history with those flats included disputes, violence and 3rd party's present who where under investigation for drug trafficking, they basically sold drugs at night clubs.

The owner of this 6 floor building has a unique situation, she is a old woman, inherited the building back in the mid 70s, no one has ever fined her for not updating the electric lines, a fire broke out a few years back in the hallway due to power lines shared between the hallway lights and 2 store fronts, the fire department demanded they update the electric lines or fines will be passed they where shocked at how no INSPECTORS gave fines or probably ever visited., She hired some electrician through a friend after 4 people refused to do the job for 1000 euros, this is what it looked like for a month and everyone experienced at east 5 black outs a day, 



 he used pencil and paper to post notices to when they will shut off power, even the owners son complained after losing a hard drive.

since day one while moving in my friend says they where threatened by some tenant upstairs demanding my no one parks baby wagons or bicis in the hall entrance, yet when they asked her whos bici it was chained to the stairs she said her sons, this woman turned out to be the wife of a man BORN in the building whos mother stayed with them and their kids and who has to climb 5 flights of stairs every day, she is in her 90s now, this man later told my friends that they asked for the flat from the city and went against the owner saying it was never occupied, even said the mother knew the owner of the building for years but is shocked at the greed to not at least let them rent it so she did not climb flights of stairs.

The agency did tell my friends that they wanted to rent the flat to new people becuase a Mexican family has already occupied the 2nd, 3rd and 4th floor of the building., later the man who lived in the building all his life told my friends that the Mexicans sell drugs at nigh clubs and a history of violence and police complaints can be traced back to the 70s.

My friends live on the primera floor one flight up, when they check their mail they would go downstairs leaving the door open unlocked for 10 seconds, someone entered the flat once and stole their bike from their hallway entrance of the flat whle checking the mail box, if that was not enough while bringing their new born child upstairs for a second upon returning to get the baby wagon downstairs some one stole her bag, her french ID and all was stolen., so the neighbors can see and rob you in seconds in this place because when you walk up the stairs you spiral past everyone's windows on all sides, 

They contacted the insurance agency but when they came nothing could be done to cover the bike, how ever a month later while in france someone tried to break into the flat from the balcony, they filed a police complaint and where offered 5 under covers to catch a wanted dealer who broke his bail they believed was hiding in one of the mexican families flats, turns out the owners son is friends with the mexican drug dealers, he lives directly across the hall, he even opened a cafe on the corner and has tables outside with no permits, ill explain how we found that out later if anyone cares to get into that one becuase one of the girls renting a room now from my friend works for the Ajuntament de Barceona where one registers flats, address or new commercial property/Stores.

But while the insurance agency was visiting the flat about the window they read this letter from the rental agency asking my friends to remove flowers from their balcony, but the flowers where not permanently installed which made them legal, the letter claimed the property is old and can damage the balcony if water makes contact, funny becuase it was raining when the insurance agent was reading it and he was surprised that a agency would even send a letter providing the fact that they have attorneys.

So my friends placed a hidden camera in the hallway window facing the stair way and their door entrance, over the last 5 years they captured one neighbor who someone i know pointed out works in the court houses in barcelona, his son would always play with the door to see if it was not shut properly, some times he would try to pick the lock, some times they would try to see inside or stand there to listen to conversations taking place in the entrance of the flat since the kitchen was behind the door, 

Last year they moved the kids back to france while the father is now separated after all this mess an still living in his flat, he told me he left his job becuase they where so corrupted that they where taking parts of the salary here and there and never sticking to the contract, he lived of paro for a few years becuase that company turned out to be liable before they where about to step in court after the judge coincidentally standing behind my friends lawyer heard his companies lawyer saying they could do whatever they wanted in spain and the judge could kiss their arse, so he was pissed off so much he told the guy to fix it before they get in the court room or its between him and that company.

Now my friend he never sublets his place however after a year it states on his contract he can rent to 3rd partys PART of the piso, on paper.

The owners son harasses his roommate claiming my friend has kids hiding them from her an is not the owner of the flat, no one said any of this of course but i can tell from talking to the people in the store fronts that the owners have allot of experience with harassing people, one of the best stories was that another roommate of my friends decided she wanted her fianca back BEFORE she moved out, my mate told her she has to surrender the keys if that is the case and take the remaining rent back too, instead of accepting this she went to the police, returned in a hour and they harassed him yelling in the hallway, his wife was in town with the kids and in front of her they threatened to arrest them saying return the money, after he did they made her sign a paper saying she got it back she asked the police if they can make sure her things where fine while she visited Malaga, they finally forced her to remove her things., in the video the police claimed that the owners told them the whole piso was illegally subletting, meaning someone NOT on the contract rented the WHOLE piso out illegally.

I insisted to go to the police station to show this video but after they watched 5 minutes they wanted to take the camera to the back but i told them i just wanted them to identify the officers and they said they knew who it was, the girl who went there came with the owner crying saying she was threatened physically, he also said about 40 woman where waiting all day, black eyes, rapes, harrasement and roberys

so what are the actual sublet laws, and what should my friends now do becuase every time he rents a room out the people in the building catch them outside and ask then where they live, tell them stories like the one i heard from the owner of the one store front.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

mona lisa said:


> Hi
> 
> I know this french couple who is renting a flat in Barcelona that believes the landlord is harassing them via 3rd parties, they have live in the same flat for 5 years now, their contract clearly states that after one year they can rent part of the flat giving them more rights hey believed to rent 2 free rooms they have to students.
> 
> ...


wow what a situation!!

I wish I knew what the sublet laws are, but I have no idea



I'm not clear if your friend actually did a_ denuncia_ (report to the police?)

to me that would seem to be the first step against the harassment - regardless of what the sublet laws are - this sort of harassment seems to me to be a bigger issue & until that is stopped it really doesn't matter if he is subletting legally or not


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## mona lisa (May 19, 2010)

Edited by request:


> The owners son harassed several of his female roommates upon entering the building, he would approach them asking where they lived, then tell them its his flat, that my friend has 3 kids and a wife to instigating a bad character and watch out for him incase he took his ring off his hand, no one said any of this of course and also no one actually sits down and explains why they are separated in marriage but i can tell from talking to the people in the store fronts that i recently met that the owners of my friends flat have allot of experience with harassing people,
> 
> Been that the owner is catalan and italian one of the best stories was that another roommate from italy decided to swallow the false propaganda and all the sudden wanted her deposit back before she moved and expected to stay in the flat, when my friend refused saying this would terminate the agreement they made and she has to surrender the keys on paper if he was to return her money she told him she spoke to the owner an ran off, she then returned in a few hours with 2 police officers and they harassed my friend and his wife yelling in the hallway, his wife was in town with the kids and yet before they could open their mouths in front of her they threatened to arrest them saying return the money (all on video!), after he did they made this italian girl sign a paper saying she got the deposit back she asked the police if they can make sure her things where fine while she visited Malaga, they finally forced her to remove her things., in the video the police claimed that the owners told them the whole piso was illegally subletting, meaning someone NOT on the contract rented the WHOLE piso out illegally.
> 
> ...


i tried to edit this after posting it becuase he read it and wanted me to add details but i got a administrator message saying i exceeded 15 minutes etc

yes in this post you can see i fixed the info about when one girl went to the police, the police knows the owners well, they have cash, its clear on the other video recorded on hi 8 tape that i watched, its what they used to record with the spy camera in the window facing the hall which cuaght the police entering the flat illegally as well, they did not even let my friends walk away from the door threatening that they will use force as if my friend was reaching for a gun, making this all a show to their neighbors yelling out loud intimidating, humiliating them in front of a 5, 3, and 1 year old kid crying, its how bad they want no one in this flat for whatever reasons my friends always paid the rent on time, respected the agency yet when they complained about the electrician for example, or the gas shut off by someone on the roof after they paid extra for insurance and the gas person would discover all this the agency only stated that they had no idea the owners where doing all this or hired that electrician or that he was even still there, they claimed that the job was done in days as far as they knew and that they had someone put a poster on the roof door warning anyone of tampering with the gas or cable boxes

you think they should go to another police station, the one on grand via is now at place espania


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Wouldn't it be easier to find another apartment?


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

mrypg9 said:


> Wouldn't it be easier to find another apartment?


possibly - especially since it sounds like a dreadful area

I reckon the rent will be very low though after such a long contract - or I would hope so - & it would be hard to get something of similar size for similar money - even in these times


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

*OMIC Barcelona*

As xabia says - what a situation! In fact, it's so complex to me that I've tried to read this post three times and can't make head nor tail of it.
IMO you don't need ideas from people on a forum. You need legal advice, which will probably take a while. I don't know how fast things move in these situations, but if it's not fast then who ever is living in that place needs to get out as soon as possible, if only for mental health reasons.
Somebody needs to go to the OMIC, the Town Hall, a lawyer, and or the police and find out what their rights are and what they can do. This tells you where the OMIC office is.







OMIC :: HOW TO FIND US
and this tells you what the OMIC is - in ENGLISH!!
BCN.ES. OMIC


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## mona lisa (May 19, 2010)

Pesky Wesky said:


> As xabia says - what a situation! In fact, it's so complex to me that I've tried to read this post three times and can't make head nor tail of it.
> IMO you don't need ideas from people on a forum. You need legal advice, which will probably take a while. I don't know how fast things move in these situations, but if it's not fast then who ever is living in that place needs to get out as soon as possible, if only for mental health reasons.
> Somebody needs to go to the OMIC, the Town Hall, a lawyer, and or the police and find out what their rights are and what they can do. This tells you where the OMIC office is.
> 
> ...


yeah i told the to do that, to get a lawyer, what happened was my friends husband was working and had indefinido and all, then the company screwed up and got kicked out of spain, was a british company, they lived of paro for the last year or so and received support for the kids, not much, around 1800 euros , in fact one year they where told nada. , just discounts on t10 metro cards etc, sort of oik welfare in america.

While France is a luxury with kids they love Barcelona so much becuase they have catalan relatives, very conservative in fact so much that my friend she refuses to let them know about this, her uncle is a detective while other cousins are taxi drivers, lawyers, pilots, restaurant owners pretty big family from Catalonia, leida and Perpiogne France.

So i told them the exact same thing, go see a lawyer, but then her husband says telefonica wants to take him to court for not paying for their services, i asked what happened and he said nothing, he canceled teh service within 14 days as the contract stated but they dont give you a number or mail to send a your request to cancel the service, i had told them about this back when it happened a few years ago when he thought about switching between uno and telefonica, that many poeple file complaints against telefonica hojas declamations i think they are called, we all went to the office and they said telefonca ripped of so many people and prefer to pay the fines so what did this have to do with it all, he said they now served him with lawyers, so i guess they have to deal with this before they go asking for legal advise. 

I have looked around for a few attorneys to help her becuase this is too much, its not eay to get a flat with no job atm and living of savings with 3 kids, moving back to france means disaster with everything, he has some options for work but not indefinido, seems like they offer telemarketing contracts for any IT work now to exploit the tax system.

i will suggest the OMIC cheers, its what they where looking for!

BTW he video taped what telefonica said to him at the shop on the corner of place catalunya with his mobile, its very cool for others that this is out becuase telefonica offers the most expensive service in the EU and the slowest, talk about greed


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

mona lisa said:


> yeah i told the to do that, to get a lawyer, what happened was my friends husband was working and had indefinido and all, then the company screwed up and got kicked out of spain, was a british company, they lived of paro for the last year or so and received support for the kids, not much, around 1800 euros , in fact one year they where told nada. , just discounts on t10 metro cards etc, sort of oik welfare in america.
> 
> While France is a luxury with kids they love Barcelona so much becuase they have catalan relatives, very conservative in fact so much that my friend she refuses to let them know about this, her uncle is a detective while other cousins are taxi drivers, lawyers, pilots, restaurant owners pretty big family from Catalonia, leida and Perpiogne France.
> 
> ...


yes - very complicated


surely the catalan relatives would be better placed to advise than we would?


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Surely no landlord would issue a contract allowing a tenant to sublet???

All this sounds rather messy and complicated and reading between the lines it seems that there are grey areas here. (to put it mildly).
I suspect there is more here than meets the eye.... It all sounds like a trashy soap opera...
No matter how cheap this flat is, if the hassle from the owner is as you say, they should find another place.
If they can go to France then why not? Times are hard and many people have to do things they don't really want to do especially if they have families.
Does anyone in this family have work?


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## mona lisa (May 19, 2010)

mrypg9 said:


> Surely no landlord would issue a contract allowing a tenant to sublet???


 I believe your wrong about that, your welcome to correct me after i post a picture of the clause in the contract which states that _after one year they can share part of the premises automatically,_ a very standard clause which exists in rent controlled apartments., if it was the way you put it where would they put the kids they have now that replaces anyone during the first 2 years they lived there?

*sub·let (sblt)*
tr.v. sub·let, sub·let·ting, sub·lets
1. To rent (*property* one holds by lease) to another.
2. To subcontract (work).

Here is something that is every owners nightmare, but if we own property and have it this way subletting would be ruled out altogether



> “Unauthorized subletting is grounds for termination of a stabilized lease after an appropriate ‘notice to cure’ is served and upon the expiration of the time to cure the violation has passed,” said Mark N. Axinn, a Manhattan real estate lawyer. “But a successful eviction would depend on whether the owner can prove at trial that the tenant is in fact subletting without consent.”
> 
> Mr. Axinn said the tenant would be likely to claim that he was not subletting and that the woman was a permitted roommate under the Real Property Law. If that claim was made, he said, “the owner would have to prove that the apartment is not the tenant’s primary residence in order to establish it is being sublet.”


Ive been told since 2004 many of the same laws apply to SPAIN now as well as additional laws to preserve landmark buildings.


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## mona lisa (May 19, 2010)

xabiachica said:


> yes - very complicated
> 
> 
> surely the catalan relatives would be better placed to advise than we would?


yes i agree, but she thinks they will take it too far and they have rights.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

mona lisa said:


> I believe your wrong about that, your welcome to correct me after i post a picture of the clause in the contract which states that _after one year they can share part of the premises automatically,_ a very standard clause which exists in rent controlled apartments., if it was the way you put it where would they put the kids they have now that replaces anyone during the first 2 years they lived there?
> 
> *sub·let (sblt)*
> tr.v. sub·let, sub·let·ting, sub·lets
> ...


 
Very possible that what you hear on here is wrong, which is why somebody needs to get down to the OMIC! You're talking about legalities, so you need someone with qualifications in the Spanish legal system to tell you what is right and what is wrong.
Besides which it seems every way you turn in this story smth else pops up which makes it impossible (in my case) to understand what is happening!!
What does this sentence mean for example 
if it was the way you put it where would they put the kids they have now that replaces anyone during the first 2 years they lived there?
What does not having paid the phone have to do with getting a lawyer?
What is the price of eggs anyway???


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

I'm going to close this post!! The situation needs legal clarification, its also impossible to understand when apparent "facts" are being drip fed

Jo


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