# Learn Cantonese or Mandarin?



## Lee355

Hey all. I'm moving from California to Hong Kong in October. I'm fluent in English and don't know any Cantonese or Mandarin. I plan on spending much, much more time in Hong Kong than the rest of China. I heard that Mandarin is increasing in popularity in Hong Kong, though. This decision between Mandarin and Cantonese is for the long term.

How easy is it to get by with just English, while I'm still learning?

Thanks!


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## joneeboy

You don't need to learn either to survive in Hong Kong. In my experience, most Hong Kong expatriates don't speak Chinese at all. A VERY large number of Chinese living in Hong Kong speak English, and there are many who speak it and write it much better than the average Brit, due to the high standard of education in Hong Kong.
Cantonese is the traditional local language of Hong Kong, and the nearby are of mainland China, but these days you will find all the young people in Hong Kong learn Mandarin which is widely spoken by others too. There are several other regional languages in China too, but the national language is Mandarin.
If you want to learn Chinese, it is pointless for you to learn anything other than Mandarin. In the meantime, it is reported that some 300 million mainland Chinese are studying English, which is taught in every secondary school, and is a compulsory subject to pass for entry to university.


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## Joeying

hey, i'm a local and i would suggest you to learn Mandarin as the population speaking this language is just enormous.. but it's of course good for you to learn a bit of Cantonese since you'll be living in this city and you'll be much more comfortable when speaking the same language with the citizens here... and as an expat, yea English is good enough for you to survive but if you wanna live like a local, Chinese is a must haha 
good luck in HK


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## joneeboy

*Mandarin is best*

I still say that Mandarin is the way to go, for any expat working in Hong Kong who wants to learn Chinese. These days it is only the elders and the poorer, less educated that still ONLY speak/understand Cantonese. All the young ones are fluent in Mandarin, which is the language of education, as well as business. Not only that, as well as the Chinese mainland, Mandarin will get you Macao, Taiwan and Singapore as well. 
Of course it is nice to learn a few words in Cantonese if you want to banter in the local markets or with the elders sitting on the corners in the residential areas like me, but that's about all. As a matter of fact, my Chinese relatives who have had a retail business and lived in Zhuhai City, Guangzhou (Canton) Province, on the other side of the Pearl river from Hong Kong, have never found the need to learn Cantonese, and their daughter, who was brought up there, never learned any.


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## Golo

They say that Mandarin is an easier language to learn, Cantonese is a mainly southern China language (Canton). Its not true to say that people who only speak Cantonese are less educated or poor! its just the native language to this region, I have quite a few rich and very well educated relatives that would be offended by that. Plus there are other dialects like Hakka etc. of which there are considerable amount of people still speaking it but its not for expats. Its a historical thing that the northern Chinese i.e. the ruling class, have tried to establish Mandarin as the official language. Now HK is back under control of Beijing (sort of) its inevitable they are pushing Mandarin, also there are more mainlanders settling here that tend to speak Mandarin. But that's all politics, all my relatives speak Cantonese plus their own dialect, at least the elders do, but they understand if not speak Mandarin. Personally I wont learn Mandarin because its of no use to me, Cantonese is hard enough! I have only a handful of friends and relatives that speak Mandarin by choice and even they converse in Cantonese, not all young ones are fluent in HK but English is much preferred. 
You can get by OK with just English, but for the long term try Mandarin, you will pick up smatterings of Cantonese anyway. Enjoy your time in HK its an experience not to be missed.


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## silviofisher

you can get around easily on the island speaking only english but if you wanna go anywhere else in Hong Kong in doesn't hurt to learn to speak a bit of Canto! i think more people speak Englist than Mandarin in HK.


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## MichaelS

joneeboy said:


> These days it is only the elders and the poorer, less educated that still ONLY speak/understand Cantonese. All the young ones are fluent in Mandarin, which is the language of education, as well as business.


Mandarin is not (yet) the language of education in Hong Kong, most Chinese language education is still in Cantonese (although most students learn Mandarin as a second language now).

If you are planning on traveling to China a lot, or need Chinese for work, then learning Mandarin can be useful, but if you are just planning on living in HK and want to better enjoy your life there, I would learn Cantonese. Very few people in HK use Mandarin as a first language, and most can speak English, so learning Mandarin won't really help you enjoy local culture or communicate with the locals better. Plus it is always a good thing to try and integrate in your new community better by learning the local lingo.


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## Kandy Wong

Hi there, 

Cantonese is the native language of the people in Hong Kong, while Mandarin is the language that many people talk about the importance of mastering it nowadays, esp. if you have business in China. Actually if you learn Mandarin, you can also communicate with Hong Kong people although some of them don't speak Mandarin very well. If learning a new language for you is for business sake, I'd suggest you to learn Mandarin. Learning Cantonese would only make your life easier in Hong Kong for simple daily communications though. 



Cheers,
Kandy


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## siobhanwf

FROM THE OFFICIAL HONG KONG GOVERNMENT WEBSITE

_Chinese and English are the official languages of Hong Kong. English is widely used in the Government and by the legal, professional and business sectors. Trilingual professionals who speak English, Cantonese and ****nghua play a vital role in the numerous enterprises trading in Hong Kong or doing business with mainland China and Taiwan.

Cantonese speakers: 89.2% of population
****nghua speakers: 0.9% of population
Other Chinese dialect speakers: 5.5% of population
English speakers: 3.2% of population
Other language speakers: 1.2% of population_

GovHK: Hong Kong – the Facts

** ****nghua is the official language of the People's Republic of China. ****nghua, AND IS ALSO also known as Mandarin

****nghua has become a core curriculum in Hong Kong's primary schools since 1998.


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## storm2013

Im learning cantonese purely because i want to understand what my colleuges at work say. You will very rarely hear mando in hk. Only used in mainland and perhaps by mainland tourists. Locals mostly understand mandarine but will not use it unless they have to. All business in hk is in canto unless doing business with the mainland. 

I personally never see mandarine used in hk. I personally think hk will never turn to mandarine. Mainlanders are looked down on in hk mostly for the overcrowding of hk and their rude behaviour.


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## Baggio

Easy choice...Mandarin! Cantonese is widely spoken only in HK and in Chinese communities overseas...Mandarin is widely spoken in China. Good luck~


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## s002858

Yes, Mandarin is getting important


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## Rachel231

Mandarin has 4 tones, Cantonese has 7 (or 9?)
Obvious choice....?


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## s002858

Rachel231 said:


> Mandarin has 4 tones, Cantonese has 7 (or 9?)
> Obvious choice....?


Yes


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## MichaelS

Rachel231 said:


> Mandarin has 4 tones, Cantonese has 7 (or 9?)
> Obvious choice....?


English has 26 letters, Irish only has 18. Therefore Irish must be a better language to learn 

Number of tones seems like a pretty arbitrary metric for deciding on a new language to learn. Cantonese is no more, nor less, difficult for westerners to learn than Mandarin. Best to learn whichever you have more interest in, or which one will be more useful in your career or everyday life.


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## siobhanwf

Rachel231 said:


> Mandarin has 4 tones, Cantonese has 7 (or 9?)
> Obvious choice....?


Cantonese as 8 plus one modified tone. Mandarin has 6. Cantonese is the purer Chinese. Mandarin is mixed with Mongolan.

Info from my (fluent)Cantonese and Mandarin speaking husband  lived in hong kong for 35 years.


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## siobhanwf

MichaelS said:


> English has 26 letters, Irish only has 18. Therefore Irish must be a better language to learn
> 
> Number of tones seems like a pretty arbitrary metric for deciding on a new language to learn. Cantonese is no more, nor less, difficult for westerners to learn than Mandarin. Best to learn whichever you have more interest in, or which one will be more useful in your career or everyday life.


As a fluent Irish speaker I had a little chuckle  now try and pronounce my name.


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## shiv1991

You can always buy Pimsleurs course.


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## Golo

Mandarin is not the National language of Hong Kong! Although China would like it to be!


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## joneeboy

storm2013 said:


> Im learning cantonese purely because i want to understand what my colleuges at work say. You will very rarely hear mando in hk. Only used in mainland and perhaps by mainland tourists. Locals mostly understand mandarine but will not use it unless they have to. All business in hk is in canto unless doing business with the mainland.
> 
> I personally never see mandarine used in hk. I personally think hk will never turn to mandarine. Mainlanders are looked down on in hk mostly for the overcrowding of hk and their rude behaviour.


There are thousands of Hong Kong people who speak excellent Mandarin. 
Apart from that, the bulk of Hong Kong business IS with the mainland. Perhaps you move in different circles.
Hong Kong Chinese is a dialect spoken in Hong Kong, and differs from true Cantonese which is the _lingua franca _in China's neighbouring province of Guangdong, (capital city Guangzhou, formerly called Canton).In fact, 'Cantonese' means 'Guangdong' language and originally referred to all the dialects spoken in Guangdong. Cantonese was not spoken in Hong Kong before the arrival of the British in 1842. 
As for Hong Kong people looking down on mainlanders, the opposite is true too, and especially by mainland Cantonese speakers. Hong Kong is famous for the rudeness of its shopkeepers, especially to those who decide not to buy! The Hong Kong dialect, which is peppered with many mispronunciations of foreign words, and the apparent inability of its speakers to differentiate between 'l' and 'r' sounds, clashes on the ears.
The time WILL come when everyone in Hong Kong understands Mandarin, just as is happening in the mainland. It does not mean all the other local Chinese languages should be forgotten, but they will certainly fade in importance.


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## joneeboy

siobhanwf said:


> As a fluent Irish speaker I had a little chuckle  now try and pronounce my name.


I had a little chuckle too, because I'm Irish but I can't pronounce your name properly. Furthermore, I can't pronounce my own second Christian name properly , and nobody else that I've met outside of Ireland can either. Its Daibhid on my birth certificate, but often spelt differently too, so I just use the bible form, which is David, and everyone understands it.


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## joneeboy

siobhanwf said:


> Cantonese as 8 plus one modified tone. Mandarin has 6. Cantonese is the purer Chinese. Mandarin is mixed with Mongolan.
> 
> Info from my (fluent)Cantonese and Mandarin speaking husband  lived in hong kong for 35 years.


I don't think any Chinese linguist would agree with you on either of your points. Mandarin is generally considered to be based on 4 tones, and only 4 tones are taught. The reason is that a change in pronunciation of one of those 4 tones can change the meaning, but any other will not. Similarly, Cantonese has 6 tones.

Regarding purity, the original question was about which to learn, if going to work in Hong Kong, so the question concerns Hong Kong Cantonese, which as I've said elsewhere, is not really Cantonese at all. It is a hotchpotch consisting of a lot of Cantonese + words from other dialects spoken in pre-1842 Hong Kong, + quite a few adaptions of words from western languages, especially English. Furthermore, since 1949, pronunciation has become very different from the Cantonese of Guangdong, which in itself is derived from a number of languages. of the region. Mandarin is just the English name for Modern Standard Chinese, which has its roots in Literary Classical Chinese, (with the 'polite' terms removed). Like all languages, it has changed and developed over time, and will continue to do so. 
My data originates comes from my Chinese wife who is fluent in both languages and has over 30 years experience teaching them.


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## siobhanwf

Guangzhou Cantonese traditionally has seven tones, but Hong Kong Cantonese has six with the high-falling tone having merged with the high tone; current models use the latter.

However, it is often said to have nine, the additional tones in the counts being the three checked (or entering) tones. 
There are in addition two 'changed' or 'modified' tones used for certain morphological purposes. In Chinese, the number of possible tones depends on the rime type. There are six contour tones in rimes or finals that end in a semi-vowel or nasal consonant. (Some of these have more than one realization, but such differences are seldom used to distinguish words.) In finals that end in a stop consonant, the number of tones is reduced to three; in Chinese descriptions, these "checked tones" are treated separately, *so that Cantonese is traditionally said to have nine tones.* However, phonetically these are a conflation of tone and rime type; the number of phonemic tones is six in Hong Kong and seven in Guangzhou.

Cantonese phonology - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

all a bit too technical for me I speak 5 european languages plus Japanese but Cantonese has beaten me


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## joneeboy

Golo said:


> Mandarin is not the National language of Hong Kong! Although China would like it to be!


Hong Kong does not have a national language because it is not a nation. It is part of China. I assume you are referring to the 'Official' language of Hong Kong.
Apart from that, do you have any evidence that the Chinese government wants Mandarin to be the language of Hong Kong? I doubt it, because nobody has been forcing Mandarin on the population of Guangdong and Guangxi provinces where there are about 45 million Cantonese speakers as well as Cantonese TV and radio stations. In fact, while Mandarin is of course the official mainland language, the central government also promotes the preservation of its many minority languages, dialects and cultures.


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## jroe

I speak both Cantonese and Mandarin quite fluently. I definitely use my Cantonese daily and rarely ever use Mandarin. If you are planning on using your language for business, learn Mandarin. Otherwise, there is no reason to learn mandarin at all if you are going to primarily be in Hong Kong and want to learn it just for the purpose of communicating with the natives. They will be shocked that as a foreigner, you have learned their language. It will make you quick friends and better deals at local businesses.


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## richard0907

Mandarin can be used within whole China. However, there's many Hong Kong guy dislike someone speak in Mandarin.


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## tonyluo

Lee355 said:


> Hey all. I'm moving from California to Hong Kong in October. I'm fluent in English and don't know any Cantonese or Mandarin. I plan on spending much, much more time in Hong Kong than the rest of China. I heard that Mandarin is increasing in popularity in Hong Kong, though. This decision between Mandarin and Cantonese is for the long term.
> 
> How easy is it to get by with just English, while I'm still learning?
> 
> Thanks!


Yes you don't have really to learn either one, and *English itself is sufficient* for you to survivie and live well in Hong Kong. But if decide to take this opportunity to pick up a new language, *go for Mandarin*!

Mandarin and Cantonese are two SPOKEN styles/dialects of Chinese language. As an official spoken “dialect”, Mandarin is widely used in Mainland China, Taiwan area and Singapore. Cantonese is specifically for Hong Kong and some overseas Chinese communities. 

One of the most important questions that many new potential Chinese learners may ask themselves is: Should I learn Mandarin or Cantonese? 

If your goal is to be widely understood, you should learn Mandarin because Mandarin can be understood even in Hong Kong, Macau and Canton (the main regions who still speak Cantonese), and more and more Cantonese speakers are learning Mandarin nowadays. If you really want to be able to connect with people from Hong Kong, Macau, and Canton, you can still consider learning Cantonese. But you should still know that Cantonese is often seen as more difficult. Its use of “tones” can be even more challenging to western speakers than Mandarin. 

It’s easier to find people to teach you Mandarin, including some of your Chinese friends who have learned “proper Mandarin”, and who may be able to teach you the language step-by-step;
More Mandarin learning materials are available from all sorts of sources and at a variety of levels;
With the current economic growth of China, it’s likely that Mandarin will be a key language of the future.

Alternatively: Knowing how to speak Mandarin is not such a unique skill as compared to in the past, as more and more foreigners live in China and have learned the language; For someone whose English is not their native tongue, it might be better to, firstly, improve their English as more and more Chinese students and business people across the country are learning English.


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## archcherub

tonyluo said:


> Yes you don't have really to learn either one, and *English itself is sufficient* for you to survivie and live well in Hong Kong. But if decide to take this opportunity to pick up a new language, *go for Mandarin*!
> 
> Mandarin and Cantonese are two SPOKEN styles/dialects of Chinese language. As an official spoken “dialect”, Mandarin is widely used in Mainland China, Taiwan area and Singapore. Cantonese is specifically for Hong Kong and some overseas Chinese communities.
> 
> One of the most important questions that many new potential Chinese learners may ask themselves is: Should I learn Mandarin or Cantonese?
> 
> If your goal is to be widely understood, you should learn Mandarin because Mandarin can be understood even in Hong Kong, Macau and Canton (the main regions who still speak Cantonese), and more and more Cantonese speakers are learning Mandarin nowadays. If you really want to be able to connect with people from Hong Kong, Macau, and Canton, you can still consider learning Cantonese. But you should still know that Cantonese is often seen as more difficult. Its use of “tones” can be even more challenging to western speakers than Mandarin.
> 
> It’s easier to find people to teach you Mandarin, including some of your Chinese friends who have learned “proper Mandarin”, and who may be able to teach you the language step-by-step;
> More Mandarin learning materials are available from all sorts of sources and at a variety of levels;
> With the current economic growth of China, it’s likely that Mandarin will be a key language of the future.
> 
> Alternatively: Knowing how to speak Mandarin is not such a unique skill as compared to in the past, as more and more foreigners live in China and have learned the language; For someone whose English is not their native tongue, it might be better to, firstly, improve their English as more and more Chinese students and business people across the country are learning English.



i have to agree with most of it.
if i am not wrong, cantonese is waaaay harder to learn.
catonese has 7 tones (? correct me if i am wrong, i don't know how to speak cantonese) and mandarin "only" has 4 tones.

the different 4 tones are already driving me mad :hippie:


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## archcherub

richard0907 said:


> Mandarin can be used within whole China. However, there's many Hong Kong guy dislike someone speak in Mandarin.


soooo true! i seen how the storekeeper's face changes when someone walks in speaking mandarin


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## siobhanwf

archcherub said:


> i have to agree with most of it.
> if i am not wrong, cantonese is waaaay harder to learn.
> catonese has 7 tones (? correct me if i am wrong, i don't know how to speak cantonese) and mandarin "only" has 4 tones.
> 
> the different 4 tones are already driving me mad :hippie:


Cantonese 8 tones + 2 modified tones. 
Mandarin 6 tones 

We speak both


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