# This may cost a lot..............any ideas how much



## robc

So,

When I was in the UK I owned a large american truck (dont ask, it is a long story!)
I do miss it and was wondering about importing one from the USA............I mean how hard can it be?

A F250 Ford Diesel would do the job nicely, so anyone any ideas if it is feasible on the following counts.

1. Gross Vehicle Weight
2. Total vehicle size as they are quite large to be registered as Private Vehicle.
3. Import straight from USA so easy to get tested and plated?

Thanks folks

Rob


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## notlongnow

You're a glutton for punishment Rob


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## robc

notlongnow said:


> You're a glutton for punishment Rob


I know.

It is like a nasty itch that needs scratching 

I should not do it, but I really need to scare myself over the costs before I can drop it.

One day I may learn, but I very much doubt it!!

Rob


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## canoeman

It's easy enough Rob if it's 4x4 or above a certain weight then it'll be subject to ISV (car tax), as it's a personal import by a Resident then it's not subject to the 12 month ownership etc, but matriculation must be started within 20 days of entry.

Simulator here, but you should check and re-check with Customs Portal das Finanças

a few extras on top like test and *transport* and CoC or equivalent (Ana on here could help you with that)

One of the major downsides is the IUC and when all added up might be cheaper buying one here


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## travelling-man

As Canoeman says you'll get hit by high road tax but you could if it's an oldie you could go for registering it as a car of historical interest and that will make it tax exempt alternatively, you could go for a conversion to GPL and make savings on fuel costs instead.

You might not need to import from the US though as there are a fair number of big ol' yank tanks elsewhere and FWIW the Swedish Army have been/still are auctioning a massive number off just now.

They come a variety of models/set ups but whatever you want is pretty much there and as they're selling so many the prices are low.

From what I've seen on the net, mileages are usually very low and condition seems to be very good indeed.

My internet connection is lousy since the storm 2 weeks ago so you'll have to ask Google for the sites rather than wait for me to post them for you....... sorry.


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## anapedrosa

Hi Rob,

For a North American vehicle, there are a couple of extra steps. This is what I understand those steps to be, I will be starting the process next month and can let you know how it goes. I'll be importing a Honda Civic.

The CoC is available only for European cars, you need to apply to acap.pt for a Homologation (cost €100).
This is done by completing an IMTT form Mod. 9, and providing a photo of the VIN and an authenticated copy of the 'Livrete da Viatura'. 
If - they do not yet have one for the car, then an additional request is required to the car manufacturer for a technical specifications sheet (another € 100) and submit that to ACAP. 

This is based on information provided to me by ACAP and Honda PT. 

I wonder though, if you are purchasing new, could a Ford dealer in Portugal manage some of the process, as you won't have the VIN until the car is purchased, and if it is new then you may be able to order it to confirm to Portuguese standards right from the start.


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## robc

Thanks to all the respondents.

I am thinking of a North American Import so I would appreciate an update ana once you have got further down the route with your importation.

Might also need some help finding a suitable source for supplying the vehicle.

Thanks all

Rob


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## canoeman

Sounds as if you need to have a holiday to gain first hand knowledge of what's for sale , failing that there must be a USA auto trader or similar site


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## robc

canoeman said:


> Sounds as if you need to have a holiday to gain first hand knowledge of what's for sale , failing that there must be a USA auto trader or similar site


A holiday would be good, but I am not sure if SWMBO would appreciate a car finding trip to the US........you never know though.

I have been having a look for trucks on fleabay.com, there are some beauties

Rob


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## canoeman

A bribe of a shopping trip would sway mine


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## anapedrosa

I always assumed that autotrader.com originated in the states.


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## canoeman

Concept was American but UK Auto Trader founded in 70's


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## robc

canoeman said:


> It's easy enough Rob if it's 4x4 or above a certain weight then it'll be subject to ISV (car tax), as it's a personal import by a Resident then it's not subject to the 12 month ownership etc, but matriculation must be started within 20 days of entry.
> 
> Simulator here, but you should check and re-check with Customs Portal das Finanças


Hmmm I must be doing something wrong as I cannot get the simulator to work..........any ideas, apart from the obvious "you are hopeless with technology !!!!!!"

Rob


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## canoeman

It does that sometimes no idea why, I generally try following day and it seems fine try it this way

Portal das Finanças Simulators

on left scroll down to Simuladores click then Simulador ISV,

there are a couple of others but they seem or I'm not using them correctly to give very inflated figures


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## canoeman

This might also be reason as there is a new one just released for 2013

https://www.e-financas.gov.pt/de/jsp-dgaiec/main.jsp?body=/ia/simuladorISV2013.jsp

also for those with GPL cars ot considering conversion new laws published https://www.e-financas.gov.pt/de/jsp-dgaiec/main.jsp?body=/ia/simuladorISV2013.jsp which among other things allows parking in underground car parks with correct ventilation


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## wink

Have a look on this website Standvirtual - O Nº1 em Carros Usados, Carros Baratos there are several Dodge Rams for sale from as little as € 8.000 to € 50.000 and several Hummers for as little as € 39.000!


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## robc

Thanks All

So now having done some calculations and whilst it is a big number for the Tax it is not impossible. I move to the next hurdle......................vehicle weight.

The simulator assumes 3500 Kgs Maximum Vehicle Weight. The trucks in the 150 series (be they Dodge or Ford or GMC or Chevrolet) all fall in this category of weight.

Trouble is I fancy another 250 series, or even better a 350 series dually, these have weight plates with a MGVWR way above 3500 kgs. (region of 4700 Kgs plus)

So, anyway round this ?????

As ever I appreciate all help

Rob


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## canoeman

Think??? the 6th option in simulator covers the type of vehicle your referring too, you should also check your D/L covers you


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## robc

canoeman said:


> Think??? the 6th option in simulator covers the type of vehicle your referring too, you should also check your D/L covers you


OK I had got that................so it is a 4x4 with 5 seats open box so meets all those criteria for 50% Table B Tax.

My Driving Licence, because I am old  allows me to drive up to 7500 Kgs GVWR.

The issue is for me, would Portugal allows me to import for example a 3500 Dually with a GVWR of 5897 Kgs and still treat it as a personal import.

Thanks

Rob


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## canoeman

If it's an option in simulator that mirrors import classifications then yes but double check

Is that a UK D/L Licence with C1 registered with IMTT here? Portuguese D/L for C1 have different renewal dates and require a psychological evaluation + standard medical


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## robc

canoeman said:


> If it's an option in simulator that mirrors import classifications then yes but double check
> 
> Is that a UK D/L Licence with C1 registered with IMTT here? Portuguese D/L for C1 have different renewal dates and require a psychological evaluation + standard medical


It is a UK D/L with a Cat C1; C1 +E and it is registered with IMTT.

Rob


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## canoeman

Then your only concern comes when you must exchange if for a Portuguese Licence as you'll need the psychological evaluation then and re-new every 2 years from 68


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## robc

canoeman said:


> Then your only concern comes when you must exchange if for a Portuguese Licence as you'll need the psychological evaluation then and re-new every 2 years from 68


Thanks Canoe.

So the search continues.............................................................


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## acorey

Hi robc,

Personal opinion here, If you are going to buy a truck in the US, you are crazy to buy anywhere other than southern California. Or possibly Arizona... The good news is that we are lousy with them.. I live in the LA area and see classic trucks in pristine condition every day. If you flew into LAX and stayed for a few days with a rental car and a laptop you could probably look at 100 trucks from craigslist.. And in this economy?.. Bring cash and you could find yourself a stupid deal.. No idea about shipping but I know that it costs about $2500 to freight a vehicle coast to coast here in the US. ( I shipped my car to CA from the east coast)

I don't mean to feed into your obsession but I can relate.. I am six years into my truck recovery 12 step program and battle the urge to buy a truck I don't need every day...

Good Luck!


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## robc

acorey said:


> Hi robc,
> 
> I don't mean to feed into your obsession but I can relate.. I am six years into my truck recovery 12 step program and battle the urge to buy a truck I don't need every day...
> 
> Good Luck!


Ahhh A fellow sufferer..........................you understand my problems then, the only thing stopping me at the moment is sorting out the GVWR and getting a purchase "re-plated". Then I have my eye on a couple of terriffic dually F350´s, both from Arizona actually.

This is going to cost 

Rob


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## donovan

You are mad, or have a need to expose yourself to having to the misery and headaches to do this, there are so many cars trucks etc available in Portugal.


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## robc

donovan said:


> You are mad, there are so many cars trucks etc available in Portugal.


Mad ......possibly but madness is only being in possession of a mindset of acute reality !!!!!!!

There are loads of trucks available but no F Series though and that matters. If you have never driven or owned an F- Series then you would not understand the attachment.

Rob


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## JUSTFLY FARO

Hi 
Look to see if you can find one in Portugal. I think this will be better and less expensive for you.


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## bikersteve

JUSTFLY FARO said:


> Hi
> Look to see if you can find one in Portugal. I think this will be better and less expensive for you.


Sounds like a good idea ?..ya just gota scratch that itch !:usa::usa::usa:


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## oronero

robc said:


> So,
> 
> When I was in the UK I owned a large american truck (dont ask, it is a long story!)
> I do miss it and was wondering about importing one from the USA............I mean how hard can it be?
> 
> A F250 Ford Diesel would do the job nicely, so anyone any ideas if it is feasible on the following counts.
> 
> 1. Gross Vehicle Weight
> 2. Total vehicle size as they are quite large to be registered as Private Vehicle.
> 3. Import straight from USA so easy to get tested and plated?
> 
> Thanks folks
> 
> Rob


Hi Rob, I have found an F350 available for sale closer to Portugal than your searches in the US

Cars for Sale - California Connection


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## oronero

...they also have a crew-cab one in the States but no price details;

Latest Car finds in the USA @ California Connection


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## robc

Thanks Oronero

Not quite what I had in mind though.

Let me show you the type of vehicle I am looking for










This was my F250 in the UK.


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## oronero

The second link had a red one similar to that, however it had a wide back so I assume it was a twin wheel type axle.

It still might be worth contacting them, they ship to the UK for others also, which might be easier than getting it delivered on a ship to Portugal.


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## Guest

woops


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## notlongnow

A small aside: My mother in law recently imported a Mustang and matriculated it in Portugal. She had it from new in the US and it ended up in Portugal after being previously matriculated in Ireland. 

She ran into HUGE problems because US vehicles apparently don't have a chassis number in the same way that EU cars do. It's resolved now, but it took months, a lot of hassle and heartache and plenty of money to get it sorted.

Had it not been the love of her life I think she probably would have let them just take it away!


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## travelling-man

notlongnow

The number thing is unusual..... certainly my old Jeep had a chassis number (but not an engine number though)........ however, the good news is, that car will have (at least) doubled in value compared to US values & if she now joins ACP Classicos she should be able to get the vehicle registered as a car of historical interest & it then becomes exempt from the horrendous road tax.


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## notlongnow

> if she now joins ACP Classicos she should be able to get the vehicle registered as a car of historical interest


I did mention that but she didn't seem to believe me! How old does a car have to be to be "of historical interest" - we're talking about a 90s Mustang, not a "classic."


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## travelling-man

OK..... Sorry. I believe it has to be 25 years old.


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## oronero

travelling-man said:


> ...if she now joins ACP Classicos she should be able to get the vehicle registered as a car of historical interest & it then becomes exempt from the horrendous road tax.


*travelling-man*, do you think that it is possible to get the paperwork side of eligibility for historical interest sorted, with ACP Classicos, prior to getting the matriculation sorted in Portugal? Would that help me avoid paying the hefty road tax or do you think I will get hit with that for the first year irrespective. The car was manufactured, or the paperwork will say, in 1976?

I am wondering also if I should get the FIA international homologation passport sorted also before presenting the car there, it is an old rally car... I have about a year to get everything in order before I am full-time there officially. I have owned the car since the mid 90's.


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## travelling-man

Definitely a good idea to get the FIVA passport asap... 

I'm not 110% sure but think you can join ACP Classicos, get the matriculation done and then get the ACP letter before you pay the tax and then you just take that letter to the Financas office, show them the letter and the tax is waived but ACP Classicos will advise you on that.

Feel free to call me on 919066816 if it'll help.


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## oronero

travelling-man said:


> Definitely a good idea to get the FIVA passport asap...
> 
> I'm not 110% sure but think you can join ACP Classicos, get the matriculation done and then get the ACP letter before you pay the tax and then you just take that letter to the Financas office, show them the letter and the tax is waived but ACP Classicos will advise you on that.
> 
> Feel free to call me on *XXXXXXXXXX* if it'll help.


Edit your number out in case you end up with unwanted calls! 

I will get this sorted by 'ping-ponging' messages with you, possibly via PM if I get stuck, thanks for the help.


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## canoeman

Think if you check Customs site IUC tax is due from start of matriculation, I also think that it's possible that car is matriculated from outset as of "historical" interest, I have the distinct impression that travelling-mans treasure was not imported as a "classic" but as a standard import and matriculated and IUC taxed accordingly.


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## travelling-man

It was supposed to have been imported/matriculated as a classic and certainly the info I gave to customs proved it was a classic. I even went to customs office and went through all the paperwork, including the FIVA certificate and award certificates etc with the Customs agent....... but the guy who did the matriculation for me was as much use as a one legged man at an arse kicking party and I wouldn't be in the least surprised if he stuffed his part of it up.

That said, I paid the 1st lot of road tax as soon as I had the matriculation documents and just a few days later found out about the historical interest thing and when I spoke to the ACP Classicos, the first thing they asked me was had I already paid the road tax........ which suggests to me that if it's done right, it's possible to duck that first payment as well.


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## oronero

If a vehicle is of 'historical intrest' is it not also exempt from ISV?

I know that bringing in a car when you migrate to Portugal allows the first to be ISV free, but what if you bring in two? Is it possible to get one in free of ISV and use the status of 'historical interest' to get the other in also for free?


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## travelling-man

CM will probably be able to give you chapter and verse but as I understand it, the rule is one car per person is tax free for new immigrants but unlikely you'll get a second in as tax free as well.

I'm looking at importing a mid 1960s Mercedes SL and already know I'll have to pay the import tax if I go ahead and do it.


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## oronero

I think you are right, I have been hunting down all info on the net this morning and reading it. The trouble is there are so many conflicting details that it is easy to be confused.

It seems that prior to 2008 classic cars could be brought in without duty but this has been stopped and is as you say only one vehicle.

Drat! They really are stopping people from trying to get a legitimate financial advantage!


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## oronero

...all things said though, the ISV costs on motorcycles over 750cc is only 200 euros and many bikes now have a value much higher than some cars, so I suppose there are means of making money!


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## travelling-man

As you say, it's very hard to get hard facts where duties are concerned and that might well be another reason to join ACP Classicos because they can probably give advice but even with the duties some cars may still be worth importing.

My research tells me the best deal is on cars of pre 1970 vintage and engines less than 2000cc. 

That info came from the Customs agent who handled the import of my Jeep but if course, it doesn't mean he's right. LOL!

FWIW, here's the figures he gave me: 

With Pre-1970 LHD cars of less than 2000 cc one has to pay the following taxes:
E4705 + 10% of the purchase price + 23% EVA of the that total.
Then one has to pay for the matriculation.

One can buy a fully restored mid 60s Merc SL190 in RSA for something in the region of E15K then add on shipping of around E2K plus duties of E7632 and you have a total of around E21K and the local car mags here are offering them for prices up to around E50K.

IF (note the big IF) those figures are correct, it's still worth a punt.


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## anapedrosa

Notlongnow - I hope you are still following this thread.

In your post you mention the lack of chassis number and large cost. Would you mind telling me which organization required this and an approximate cost. I assume that I will encounter the same problem with my car as North America cars follow most of the same rules (other than Canadian cars needing running lights).

Your input would be very helpful as I could investigate and see if there is anything I could do to prepare in advance.

Thanks and hoping you reply.
Ana


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## canoeman

As yours is a Toyota? without looking back this shouldn't be an issue as you should have chassis and engine numbers, check your car details


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## anapedrosa

Thanks Canoeman, a Honda, I hadn't thought , I will check.


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## canoeman

oronero said:


> If a vehicle is of 'historical intrest' is it not also exempt from ISV?
> 
> I know that bringing in a car when you migrate to Portugal allows the first to be ISV free, but what if you bring in two? Is it possible to get one in free of ISV and use the status of 'historical interest' to get the other in also for free?


I've always found Customs to be very much by the book, regs allow you to bring in 1 vehicle per person "free" of ISV so a second vehicle of "historic" interest is 2 vehicles so second would be refused, once your a Resident you can then import a "historic" vehicle free of ISV so it's making certain that your classic has the documentation to prove it's "historic" status

Unfortunately the site that had a lot of info on this is still updating for a year + now
CPAA - Comissão Técnica -Importação but it should be worthwhile contacting them for additional help and joining


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## oronero

canoeman said:


> I've always found Customs to be very much by the book, regs allow you to bring in 1 vehicle per person "free" of ISV so a second vehicle of "historic" interest is 2 vehicles so second would be refused, once your a Resident you can then import a "historic" vehicle free of ISV so it's making certain that your classic has the documentation to prove it's "historic" status
> 
> Unfortunately the site that had a lot of info on this is still updating for a year + now
> CPAA - Comissão Técnica -Importação but it should be worthwhile contacting them for additional help and joining


*Canoeman* please let me know if I am understanding this correctly with my given theoretical scenario.

If I own two cars, for example a 2009 Bentley Continental GT and a 1976 Reliant scimitar, If I was to bring the Bentley in as my personal import and use the 'free' aspect of the ISV on it, I would pay only the current rate of the Portuguese version of the road tax. 

If I left the Scimitar behind in storage in my previous country and then went about bringing it over once I was a 'Portuguese resident', because it could be classed as having 'Historic' status, would it also get into Portugal without having to pay the ISV and would it also be exempt from paying the Portuguese version of the road tax, being over 30 years old?

I am coming over in April and will be trying to get to the bottom of all of this. So much to do and try and find out over the next few months.


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## canoeman

My understanding is yes, the Bentley would be free of ISV providing you met all the ownership, residence conditions etc and would then be road taxed at the rate for the year you actually matriculated calculated on cc & emissions.

You would still need to import and matriculate your "historic status" but my understanding is that if car is correctly documented then it could be "free" of ISV, the major difference importing as a "Resident" is that import/matriculation must commence within 20 days of cars import, you are also not bound by the 12 month ownership re-sale criteria


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## oronero

I love it when a plan appears to come together, thankyou for the information *Canoeman*.

As a note you can pick up a Bentley Continental GT LHD in Germany for about 40,000 Euros, and in Portugal they are being advertised at 75,000 Euros plus, so a gain to be made. 

Alternatively I know of a few 6R4 rally cars that are for sale at a similar figure and who knows what a matriculated one in Portugal would be worth in five years. 

It would mean selling one or two of the Italian motorcycles I own but that would be fine.


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## canoeman

If you can find a buyer


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## travelling-man

Any idea how much one can pick up a mid 60s Merc SL for in Germany?


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## oronero

travelling-man said:


> Any idea how much one can pick up a mid 60s Merc SL for in Germany?


I use mobile.de to get prices for vehicles available in Germany. 

Take note that not all vehicles are in Germany as other Europeans also advertise on there.

I know of a few people who have sourced there Ducati motorcycles from the site and one of my friends travelled to Germany to buy his motorhome which he also found on the site.


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