# Bye, Bye and Adios INM Forever



## Hound Dog (Jan 18, 2009)

After 13 years of dealing with the insufferable INM, I was informed by the official at SRE that I should turn over my "Inmigrado" (Permanent Resident) Card issued by INM in 2010 so they could inform INM that I was no longer subject to their jurisdiction since I had been granted, upon application and approval, Mexican citizenship. The process of moving from an INM Supplicant to Naturalized Mexican had iaken a few months and caused me some displeasure along the way but, in the end, unconditional naturalized Mexican citizenship was granted me and for that I am grateful and pleased. I have since been issued my voter registration card, a Mexican Passport and a modified driver´s licence affirming that I am a Mexicana and no longer an extranjera. This may be a step more important than you think if you live in Mexico all or most of the time and for several reasons but this naturalization will not be granted you easily nor frivolously. I will relate my experiences if anyone is interested.


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

Hound Dog said:


> After 13 years of dealing with the insufferable INM, I was informed by the official at SRE that I should turn over my "Inmigrado" (Permanent Resident) Card issued by INM in 2010 so they could inform INM that I was no longer subject to their jurisdiction since I had been granted, upon application and approval, Mexican citizenship. The process of moving from an INM Supplicant to Naturalized Mexican had iaken a few months and caused me some displeasure along the way but, in the end, unconditional naturalized Mexican citizenship was granted me and for that I am grateful and pleased. I have since been issued my voter registration card, a Mexican Passport and a modified driver´s licence affirming that I am a Mexicana and no longer an extranjera. This may be a step more important than you think if you live in Mexico all or most of the time and for several reasons but this naturalization will not be granted you easily nor frivolously. I will relate my experiences if anyone is interested.


Bravo, Hound Dog! I hope to join the ranks of naturalized Mexican citizens in 4 years :fingerscrossed: .


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## lagoloo (Apr 12, 2011)

We are Permanente and in the process of applying for Citizenship. It feels right. We know it's going to involve travel to D.F. and some expense, but then...........it's will be DONE!


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## maesonna (Jun 10, 2008)

I would definitely be interested in any further details you would like to share with us. Congratulations!


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## Longford (May 25, 2012)

Hound Dog said:


> I have since been issued my voter registration card, a Mexican Passport and a modified driver´s licence affirming that I am a Mexicana and no longer an extranjera.


Congratulations on obtaining the citizenship, and also with your change of gender. :clap2:


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

Hound Dog said:


> […]
> I have since been issued my voter registration card, a Mexican Passport and a modified driver´s licence affirming that I am a Mexicana and no longer an extranjera.
> […]


It sounds painful. Did it require a sex change operation? Or was this Citlali posting with your name?


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## GCW (Mar 19, 2014)

Felizidades amigo.


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## Hound Dog (Jan 18, 2009)

I´ll be pleased to share further details later , maesonna, after my Thursday morning class at an Ajijic school specializing in teaching foreigners the art of listening to and responding in Spanish quickly and decisively without undue hesitation. I have years of classes both in Ajijic and San Cristóbal de Las Casas in Spanish language fundamentals to the point I can read Spanish publications fairly easily but, until recently, never had found a school that specialized in the skills of listening attentatively and responding in kind to others addressing me in Mexican Spanish. At SRE (Secreteria de Relaciones Exteriores), the agency that handles the naturalization process, interviewers charged with receiving naturalization applications and processing applicants through to citizenship, the people with which the applicant will be dealing, are required to address the applicant only in Spanish and expect a fairly lucid response in Spanish and it is during this process that I came to realize my weaknesses in communicating in Spanish both as to listening and comprehending and responding unhesitatingly. When speaking with the applicant and expecting lucid responsiveness, SRE officials give no quarter so, while I eventually passed muster in the end, I had some embarrassing moments along the way to put it mildly. My darlin´ wife, who speaks Spanish quite well, went through the citizenship process in Chiapas where very few people speak English or her native tongue of French and I went through the process in Guadalajara but in both places, an ability to communicate well in Spanish is what I would call a good idea before one even considers undertaking this endeavor. I think I got through because my wife is a naturalized Mexican. 

More later - after that Spanish communication class. Now that my papers indicate that I am Mexican and not here under a permanent resident visa, I anticípate less tolerance of my broken spoken Spaish among Mexican strangers confronting me along the way.


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## Hound Dog (Jan 18, 2009)

[_QUOTE=Longford;4394266]Congratulations on obtaining the citizenship, and also with your change of gender. :clap2:[/QUOTE]_

Cute, Longford and TG. All my papers refer to me as "Mexicana" . Don´t blame me, I grew up speaking Alabamian. If "Mexicana" is a mistake, it was committed by SRE, IFE and the state of Jalisco on my driver´s license. On the other hand, maybe it´s the way I swing my butt when I walk. I always thought this gender thing was a nebulous concept.


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

Hound Dog said:


> [_QUOTE=Longford;4394266]Congratulations on obtaining the citizenship, and also with your change of gender. :clap2:_




Cute, Longford and TG. All my papers refer to me as "Mexicana" . Don´t blame me, I grew up speaking Alabamian. If "Mexicana" is a mistake, it was committed by SRE, IFE and the state of Jalisco on my driver´s license. On the other hand, maybe it´s the way I swing my butt when I walk. I always thought this gender thing was a nebulous concept.[/QUOTE]

I've got it, HD. "Mexicana" refers to your "nacionalidad", which is grammatically feminine in Spanish, hence "mexican*a*" instead of "mexican*o*".


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## AlanMexicali (Jun 1, 2011)

Hound Dog said:


> [_QUOTE=Longford;4394266]Congratulations on obtaining the citizenship, and also with your change of gender. :clap2:_






> Cute, Longford and TG. All my papers refer to me as "Mexicana" . Don´t blame me, I grew up speaking Alabamian. If "Mexicana" is a mistake, it was committed by SRE, IFE and the state of Jalisco on my driver´s license. On the other hand, maybe it´s the way I swing my butt when I walk. I always thought this gender thing was a nebulous concept.


I notice when down town the girls in regular high heel do sway from side to side but the ones in high heel platforms walk as if they are unstalble and going to fall down at any moment, a real bad thing. IMO


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

AlanMexicali said:


> I notice when down town the girls in regular high heel do sway from side to side but the ones in high heel platforms walk as if they are unstalble and going to fall down at any moment, a real bad thing. IMO


That's why I call these kinds of instruments of torture "stupid shoes"!


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## Hound Dog (Jan 18, 2009)

Thanks for the clarification, Isla.


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## AlanMexicali (Jun 1, 2011)

Isla Verde said:


> That's why I call these kinds of instruments of torture "stupid shoes"!


Correct and some add 4 or more inches to their height. 

Funny story: When frequently travelling by air from Mexicali to Guadalajara a couple of years ago and before all the girls on the bus loading área at the Camionera Central in Guadalajara wore the 3 inch high heel platform shoes. The girls that take your ticket and give you a bag with a sándwich and drink from their cart infront of the busses. Sometimes I would wait outside on a seat and people watch for hours to get on the bus to SLP. They all walked as if their feet were very sore. The girls at the ticket counters sitting on thier stools inside the terminal also wore them and still do the last time I was there.

Then they stopped wearing them. I guess it was a peer presure thing to wear them at the time.


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

AlanMexicali said:


> Correct and some add 4 or more inches to their height.
> 
> Funny story: When frequently travelling by air from Mexicali to Guadalajara a couple of years ago and before all the girls on the bus loading área at the Camionera Central in Guadalajara wore the 3 inch high heel platform shoes. The girls that take your ticket and give you a bag with a sándwich and drink from their cart infront of the busses. Sometimes I would wait outside on a seat and people watch for hours to get on the bus to SLP. They all walked as if their feet were very sore. The girls at the ticket counters sitting on thier stools inside the terminal also wore them and still do the last time I was there.
> 
> Then they stopped wearing them. I guess it was a peer presure thing to wear them at the time.


They still wear them on the bus lines I take. It must be awful to have to stand all day in high heels, not to mention the damage it does to your toes and Achilles tendon.

I used to hike with a woman who had worn high heels for a significant part of her life. We had to tape up all her toes at the start of every hike. They were badly misshapen and she would get blisters really easily.


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

AlanMexicali said:


> Then they stopped wearing them. I guess it was a peer presure thing to wear them at the time.


Or maybe company policy, you know, part of the Mexican emphasis on "buena presentación" for female employees.


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

Isla Verde said:


> Hound Dog said:
> 
> 
> > Cute, Longford and TG. All my papers refer to me as "Mexicana" . Don´t blame me, I grew up speaking Alabamian. If "Mexicana" is a mistake, it was committed by SRE, IFE and the state of Jalisco on my driver´s license. On the other hand, maybe it´s the way I swing my butt when I walk. I always thought this gender thing was a nebulous concept.
> ...


A little knowledge is a dangerous thing. It takes someone who really knows Spanish to keep us on the straight and narrow.


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

TundraGreen said:


> A little knowledge is a dangerous thing. It takes someone who really knows Spanish to keep us on the straight and narrow.


Well, I started off in life as a Spanish teacher, and now I'm happy to use my knowledge to clear up questions like Hound Dog's legal identity!


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## lagoloo (Apr 12, 2011)

And to think that women are supposed to have "choices"?
Those shoes are not far removed from the bound feet once common in China.


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## kcowan (Jul 24, 2010)

Congratulations dawg!

Do you have any idea if that will make international travel different?

For example, Turkey charges Canucks $100 for a visa to enter their country and only $10 for Brits!


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

kcowan said:


> Congratulations dawg!
> 
> Do you have any idea if that will make international travel different?
> 
> For example, Turkey charges Canucks $100 for a visa to enter their country and only $10 for Brits!


$30 for US; $0 for Germans.

It will make it easier for Hound Dog and Citlali to visit Cuba anyway.


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## AlanMexicali (Jun 1, 2011)

TundraGreen said:


> They still wear them on the bus lines I take. It must be awful to have to stand all day in high heels, not to mention the damage it does to your toes and Achilles tendon.
> 
> I used to hike with a woman who had worn high heels for a significant part of her life. We had to tape up all her toes at the start of every hike. They were badly misshapen and she would get blisters really easily.


High heels yes, but not platform high heels.

https://www.google.com.mx/search?q=...JOtK1yATd04GABw&ved=0CBkQsAQ&biw=1280&bih=585


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## Longford (May 25, 2012)

kcowan said:


> Do you have any idea if that will make international travel different?


If HDs USA citizenship hasn't been renounced, then I'm thinking he's still bound to whatever restrictions exist (from the USA government standpoint) are applicable ... if that (USA) government learned of any travel to an unauthorized/prohibited destination. I believe entering the USA with the USA passport is still the requirement in this situation, but the Mexican passport could be used for travel to destinations other than the USA. I don't know if I'm understanding the regulations clearly, though.


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

AlanMexicali said:


> High heels yes, but not platform high heels.
> 
> https://www.google.com.mx/search?q=...JOtK1yATd04GABw&ved=0CBkQsAQ&biw=1280&bih=585


Ah, I see what you mean. You are more tuned in to the subtleties of shoes than I am.


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## AlanMexicali (Jun 1, 2011)

TundraGreen said:


> Ah, I see what you mean. You are more tuned in to the subtleties of shoes than I am.


My wife calls it "ankle watching" when my friend and I are with her in San Diego, he is the worst. Here I avoid it when with her.


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

Longford said:


> If HDs USA citizenship hasn't been renounced, then I'm thinking he's still bound to whatever restrictions exist (from the USA government standpoint) are applicable ... if that (USA) government learned of any travel to an unauthorized/prohibited destination. I believe entering the USA with the USA passport is still the requirement in this situation, but the Mexican passport could be used for travel to destinations other than the USA. I don't know if I'm understanding the regulations clearly, though.


I think you are correct, although I am no authority. My understanding is that they would use US passports entering into and departing from the US, Mexican passports entering into and departing from Mexico. And for other countries, they could choose which passport to use.


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

AlanMexicali said:


> High heels yes, but not platform high heels.
> 
> https://www.google.com.mx/search?q=...JOtK1yATd04GABw&ved=0CBkQsAQ&biw=1280&bih=585


Just looking at those pictures makes my feet ache and my feminist soul cry out in protest. Instruments of torture indeed, and all so men can look at women's ankles.


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## AlanMexicali (Jun 1, 2011)

Isla Verde said:


> Just looking at those pictures makes my feet ache and my feminist soul cry out in protest. Instruments of torture indeed, and all so men can look at women's ankles.


My friend is not looking at their ankles, Isla. My wife softened the deal. She knows.


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

AlanMexicali said:


> My friend is not looking at their ankles, Isla. My wife softened the deal. She knows.


OK, so some women wear what I call stupid shoes, so men will gawk at their legs. Same thing.


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## AlanMexicali (Jun 1, 2011)

Isla Verde said:


> OK, so some women wear what I call stupid shoes, so men will gawk at their legs. Same thing.


Not their legs either. [getting warmer]

The joke is many years old and we hang out with my friend a lot and he says: "Look at her ankles!" Everyone laughs when he gets carried away walking around town.


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

Isla Verde said:


> Just looking at those pictures makes my feet ache and my feminist soul cry out in protest. Instruments of torture indeed, and all so men can look at women's ankles.


It has never been clear to me whether women wear high heels to get men to look at them or to compete with other women.


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## Hound Dog (Jan 18, 2009)

In fact, we are considering a trip to Cuba to meet with other members of my wife´s family from France but our plans are not finalized. That was not a problem in the past as the Cubans routinely would not stamp one´s U.S. Passport upon entering from a third country such as Mexico and France doesn´t give a damn one way or the other but now, what the hell, we could enter Cuba with Mexican Passports and no harm would be done.

The thing to keep in mind is that, when in Mexico, presentation of Mexican legal documents is what is important for both of us where the question of our legal standing in Mexico is concerned but for us, when in the U.S. or France, those countries legal documents prevail. In Mexico, it is not the passport that is used for identification but the card with the long-winded title of _"Instituto Federal Electoral, México Registro Federal De Electores, Credencial Para Votar", _or voter registration card that is the standard of proof of identification if one is a citizen. We know lots of indigenous Mexican citizens in Chiapas who speak little or no Spanish, drive without driver´s licenses or automobile insurance and have no other official papers but they all seem to have that card they call the "Credencial". Just the other day, I was in our bank in Ajijic where we have had an account for over ten years and when I wanted to negotiate some business over the teller window and showed them my Chiapas driver´s license, the teller refused to recognize its validity so my wife showed them her "Credencial" and the transaction sailed through. They´re big on stuff like that in Mexico. 

The thing to remember if you become a naturalized Mexican citizen is that, while you are in Mexico you warrant that you will abide by the laws of Mexico and not seek recognition nor assistance from consular officials of your home country when confronted with issues regarding Mexican law. International travel requires some thought ahead of time. If, say, we wanted to fly to France, we would travel under our French and U.S. Passports but upon returning to Mexico, we would travel under our Mexican Passports. On the other hand, if we drove across the Chiapas border into Guatemala and back we would only use our Mexican Passports. 

I hope that´s perfectly clear.


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## AlanMexicali (Jun 1, 2011)

TundraGreen said:


> It has never been clear to me whether women wear high heels to get men to look at them or to compete with other women.


IMO it is to get men´s attention as the sway increases proportional to how high their heels are. as noted in my first post and the platform high heels ruin this affect completely and they look like they are about to fall over any moment when walking.

The platform high heels are to increase their height up to about 5 or 6 inches. about 3 inches over regular high heels on some of them. It is very popular now and even flats come with platforms.


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## Hound Dog (Jan 18, 2009)

_


TundraGreen said:



I think you are correct, although I am no authority. My understanding is that they would use US passports entering into and departing from the US, Mexican passports entering into and departing from Mexico. And for other countries, they could choose which passport to use.

Click to expand...

_Succinctly put, TG. We South Alabama boys like to sit around under a fine old oak tree and ramble on while sharing Tennesee Sipping Whiskey so we can´t respond to these complicated issues with such lucidity. No wonder you are a moderator while I remain immoderate.


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## lagoloo (Apr 12, 2011)

Looking at ankles? Puleeze. They are checking out the part that sways. Men keep their eyes upon the prize.

Now tell me, what is it that women make a point of looking at?
Or maybe, better not tell me.


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## Hound Dog (Jan 18, 2009)

There has to be a logical reason this thread has meandered between the issues of wearing high heels and recurrent dealings with the INM over the years as immigrants. I suggest we bring in the subject of men being forced unnecessarily to wear neckties when going to work for no discernable reason except, perhaps, as a representation of a latter day ball & chain.

Dawg remembers when we had to wear neckties going to church on Sunday mornings or when taking a flight from Montgomery to Atlanta and places beyond. My wife, who grew up in Paris, tells me that there was a time when her parents simply would not consider going into Central Paris without formal attire including proper heels, neckties and hats. The same was true in Downtown San Francisco in the 1950s. These days I don´t even own a tie and my tennis shoes have holes in them.


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

lagoloo said:


> Looking at ankles? Puleeze. They are checking out the part that sways. Men keep their eyes upon the prize.
> 
> Now tell me, what is it that women make a point of looking at?
> Or maybe, better not tell me.


Eyes and smiles. Oh, and hands too.


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## lagoloo (Apr 12, 2011)

Isla Verde said:


> Eyes and smiles. Oh, and hands too.


Absolutely ditto. Especially the eyes and hands.
Smiles can fool you.

It would be a chilly day in hades when I looked at their footwear, and I prefer them not to sway, unless they're dancing.


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## Anonimo (Apr 8, 2012)

Congratulations, 'Dawg.


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## RVGRINGO (May 16, 2007)

From now on, it should probably be “Señor Perro“


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## Hound Dog (Jan 18, 2009)

_

Excellent idea RV but I prefer Señor Perro de Caza. Actually, I don´t care what I am called, simply that I am called at all.

Reminds me of an old joke told by a long-dead comedian from Georgia. It seems that the Reverend Billy Bob Fallwell was preaching at a revival in Rome, Georgia and he had the crowd all stirred up and seeking the blessings of De Lawd and they were in a veritable frenzy so Rev. demanded of them that they, as a congregation, confess their sins and, thereby, seek absolution with the LORD GOD ALMIGHTY. Various congregants arose and confessed numerous (standard) sins mostly including those arising from sexual encounters with the opposite sex (never the homosexual encounter while on a business trip to Birmingham) and inappropriate business ventures and the crowd was in a frenzy and shouting praises to De Lawd and finally this guy arose from the back pew and exclaimed to Rev. Billy Bob. "Reverend. I must confess that back in 1968, I made love to a goat." The following silence in the congregation was deafening and the revival seemed to have lost its vitality. Reverend Billy Bob responded, "You know, Brother, I don't believe I´d a´told that."_


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## ojosazules11 (Nov 3, 2013)

lagoloo said:


> Absolutely ditto. Especially the eyes and hands.
> Smiles can fool you.
> 
> It would be a chilly day in hades when I looked at their footwear, and I prefer them not to sway, unless they're dancing.


Ah, but when the smile reaches the eyes...
I still remember when I realized I was falling in love with my husband, as I noted how his smile reached right to his eyes, authentic, warm and genuine. I knew I wasn't being fooled then, and more than 20 yrs later that smile still has the same effect on me.


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## ojosazules11 (Nov 3, 2013)

Isla Verde said:


> Or maybe company policy, you know, part of the Mexican emphasis on "buena presentación" for female employees.


A close Guatemalan friend of mine was never a "girlie" girl. She would be found with the boys of the _barrio_, playing street soccer and learning Tae Kwon Do. No high heels in her closet. 

She hoped to study medicine, but her family couldn't afford it, so she went to secretarial school (in Guatemala in the 1980s). When it came time for the students' (all female) placements in offices, they were required to wear high heels of a certain height and style (the skinny high heels). The instructors would actually MEASURE the heels to make sure they met the height requirement (I think it was 3 inches). 

My friend had to recruit her classmates to teach her to walk in those heels, in order to pass the course. 

To this day in Guatemala a photo is generally required with your resume, and many job advertisements blatantly state they are seeking applicants aged 18-35 yrs, with gender often specified as well. If you are in your 40's and become unemployed, it can be very challenging to find a job, especially as a secretary. Appearance trumps experience. 

My friend is now a registered nurse in Toronto, and wears sensible, comfortable shoes.


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

ojosazules11 said:


> To this day in Guatemala a photo is generally required with your resume, and many job advertisements blatantly state they are seeking applicants aged 18-35 yrs, with gender often specified as well. If you are in your 40's and become unemployed, it can be very challenging to find a job, especially as a secretary. Appearance trumps experience.


This is also true in Mexico.


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

Also true in France.

It was fascinating to see the ads Seagram would put in the French papers compare to the adds in the US.


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## Hound Dog (Jan 18, 2009)

That appearance thingy also applies in the United States although it is a certain but unspoken rule enforced by statute and recent custom. When I frivolously read want ads in Mexico, I constantly see that "good appearance" is a normal qualifying standard and selected youth and sex are standards as well. 

I´ve long been a big fat balding guy prone to wearing tattered, shiny Green suits, stained ties and soiled shoes but I had some talents, mostly in anaylzing credit risk and committing that analysis to paper and commercial bankers treasured that skill so I found work where I found it. As I got older and sloppier in appearance, I found my best success as a private contractor/consultant to commercial banks in the credit field. 

I was, in the 1990s, doing quite a bit of work for a bank in California´s Napa Valley and was primarily doing the back room loan proposal and analytical work for the dunces sitting out on the "platform" who couldn´t tell a debit from a credit and whose main skills consisted of playing golf and kissing the butts of those clients with extra filthy lucre to deposit in the bank and occasionally experiencing cash flow crises. These platform guys were masters at schmoozing with small time industrialists and crooked attorneys but they would analize credit risk based on a supplicant´s affectations whereas Dawg was interested simply in the relationships of numbers and projecting where Billy Bob client was actually going with his future endeavors and whether those endeavors would result in the bank being repaid any loans granted. I never cared for golf anyway although lifting drinks with clients I had traditionally found a pleasurable pastime and so I did for years in the San Francisco Financial District back when the three Martini lunch was fashionable - especially in that town.

Then, one day, the chairman of the board inquired as to why the bank was paying these "outrageous" hourly fees for me as a consultant who did most of the work required out of my home office and demanded of the senior credit officer that I be hired as a full time, on-premise staff member. The senior credit officer retorted, "But.look at him, we love his work but he´s visually a walking disaster and, after all, this is the (high falutin) Napa Valley." The chairman responded, " I said hire the sumbitch."

I really didn´t want to work at the bank on premise at my then age but that sacrifice on my part became a requirement at the time to rake in the dinero so I accepted the position proferred. 

The lesson here for those of you still seeking wealth. If you do not present well, especially as you reach old fartdom. whether in Mexico or the U.S. or anywhere for that matter, have a skill developed over time that someone involved in a commercial endeavor or with money to share, needs.

Someone wrote, money is the only asset one can acquire that retains its value only if shared.


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## Hound Dog (Jan 18, 2009)

Yesterday morning, my Spanish teacher at Six Corners , who, as I earlier stated, is attempting to teach me to relate vocally in Spanish with some aplomb as opposed to concentrating on the language fundamentals, responded, upon my inquiry, that words ending in "dad" such as "nacionalidad" are typically feminine in Spanish so, on various official documents in Mexico, the proper term is "Nacionalidad Mexicana" . I guess this is helpful when you inquire as to why CFE cut off "La electricidad". 

Now, in Alabama, the proper term is not sexually oriented. It is "Whereyállfrum."


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