# How do you Leave Italy?



## Mrtcpip (Feb 15, 2014)

Greetings, currently I am an US citizen also resident of Italy. Fortunately we happened to be visiting the US while this Covid19 outbreak occurred in Italy. We had been planning to return to Italy mid April. Now with the state departments Recent warning, sadly we don’t think it’s prudent to return. 

https://apple.news/APRyRL8_uTbqjU0rvp5btFg

Here’s the question. What are the steps to leave Italy? 

PdiS - do we need to inform Italy we are not returning?

Taxes - how do we handle our last years tax filing due in July?

Personal items - can we have all our personal items shipped back to the US? Clothes, files, electronic equipment, etc

These are just a few items that come to mind, is there any other important things I have missed?

We are heavy hearted to leave our home in Italy, especially in this way. Yet we have much to be thankful for and our hope is that someday we can return. 

Many thanks in advance for any advice.


----------



## NickZ (Jun 26, 2009)

Cancel your residence. If not you'll remain Italian tax resident.

Close all your utilities.

Shipping stuff back is the opposite of how you brought them here. Decide on what's important. If it's too much for luggage find a shipper and ship.


----------



## NickZ (Jun 26, 2009)

Well that's not true. 

At least one of the three tests in the Italian tax act in no way cares about time in country. The other two don't really rely on it either.


----------



## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

Just a note here - getting your stuff shipped back from Italy may be next to impossible for the time being. Even just moving house violates all sorts of provisions of the lockdown (at least here in France). Retrieving your stuff may have to wait until the situation improves considerably.


----------



## GeordieBorn (Jul 15, 2016)

Most DTAs I've seen involve "time spent", but really you need to look for yourself and your circumstances. I think this is your official IRS site. Good luck!


----------



## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

AnyExpat said:


> You cannot be tax resident in both countries and due to double taxation rules, if you are resident in the usa due to domicle rules and file your taxes, when the Italian authorities ask for your taxes, you have evidence you are not tax resident and the local rules will not apply as you are tax resident elsewhere


It actually IS possible to be considered tax resident in two places at once. (Pretty much all US citizens resident abroad are.) Check the terms of the US-Italy tax treaty and the Italian rules for determining tax residence. They vary by country, but if there is a formal way to "declare" that you have moved out of the country, safest thing to do is to declare that to the Italian authorities.


----------



## NickZ (Jun 26, 2009)

https://www.agenziaentrate.gov.it/p...2019.pdf/67765378-42f5-b52a-29ac-d4b3abd9ed25

Don't confuse theory with reality. 

That case is a man who moved back to the UK. Arguably doing everything more or less right. Still ended up with problems.

If you're still register in the Anagrafe they will consider you resident. You can than spend money on lawyers .


----------



## John and Cecil (Dec 22, 2019)

I believe you also need to contact the consulate in the USA. Explain that you are now living in the USA and register your US residency address with the A.I.R.E . Maybe someone else understands this process better than me. I know when I received my citizenship the consulate registered my address with the AIRE for me. Good luck, and be safe!

Edit: Unsure if you are a dual citizen, you might not have to do this if you are just a US citizen. You probably need to contact the town in Italy and notify them that you have moved away like the others have suggested.


----------



## Pippomcnal (Mar 16, 2019)

Here is a slight twist on this situation. My wife and I are US citizens and elective residents in Rome. We have been here since November 2019. I am currently finishing medical treatment here, and we have decided because of my health to return to the US. My treatments here won’t allow us to leave until at least the end of June. 

Where do we go to inform Italian authorities about this change? And when? Also, we filed and paid US taxes for 2019. Do we owe Italian taxes now as well? And when? 

Thanks for the advice.


----------



## NickZ (Jun 26, 2009)

You could try contacting the Anagrafe office that you dealt with to get residency but it's likely closed at the moment. 

If you leave in June taxes would depend on the type of income. Elective visa so you aren't working but any Italian sourced income would be taxed. I'm assuming you establish yourself in the US more or less right away.


----------



## John and Cecil (Dec 22, 2019)

Pippomcnal said:


> Here is a slight twist on this situation. My wife and I are US citizens and elective residents in Rome. We have been here since November 2019. I am currently finishing medical treatment here, and we have decided because of my health to return to the US. My treatments here won’t allow us to leave until at least the end of June.
> 
> Where do we go to inform Italian authorities about this change? And when? Also, we filed and paid US taxes for 2019. Do we owe Italian taxes now as well? And when?
> 
> Thanks for the advice.


I am sure someone may know more than me. First I believe it is imperative the you leave Italy before late June, once you are in Italy for 182 days +/- for the year 2020 you will be a tax resident for 2020. I believe you have to notify the local anagrafe. If you are a dual citizen with Italy too you should also register your new address in the US with AIRE. Good luck.

edit - the above is considering all your income is from US sources, I am unsure about income earned from Italian sources but I would assume you must pay Italian tax on that.

Also, I checked the calendar and it looks like you need to be out of Italy by the end of June. If you stay into July for even just a couple of days you will be a tax resident in Italy for 2020.

I hope you get better soon!


----------



## Mrtcpip (Feb 15, 2014)

thanks for all the advice, some updates for our situation. We decided to return to Italy, and for the last 2 months have been making flights and seeing them cancelled. (4 times we had flights cancelled) Now its getting to the point where July 4th will be 183 days outside of Italy. So we will try and return after that date. 

Taxes - So just to confirm, if we are outside of Italy for 182+ days we will not be tax residents for 2020, correct?

Need to contact our tax people (we use ACLI) to help us understand how to proceed with out 2019 Italian taxes.

Stay Permit - ANother wringle, our PdiS was set to expire April 29, but we have been told by Cinformi they have extended the renewals to August 31, so we should be good to make that happen.

Also, the Italian Consulate in NY has been very helpful in figuring all this out..

We hope everyone stays healthy and safe!


----------



## NickZ (Jun 26, 2009)

There is no requirement to be in Italy for tax residence. The three tests are

1 ) Are you registered for residence in the town Anagrafe ?

2) The domicile test

3) Centre of interests test 

If you pass any of those tests for more than 183 days you're tax resident. 

Plenty of people travel. Being outside the country isn't uncommon.


----------



## Mrtcpip (Feb 15, 2014)

NickZ said:


> There is no requirement to be in Italy for tax residence. The three tests are
> 
> 1 ) Are you registered for residence in the town Anagrafe ? Yep
> 
> ...


Thank you Nick, I think you just saved us from getting a 5th ticket to Italy, we will try to go with our June 1st departure. All the best!


----------

