# 70K a year?



## Natalie2b (Aug 11, 2012)

Hi all, 

My husband is pursuing a job in the UK (an interoffice transfer). HR got with us today to let us know that the position pays 70K per year salary + a 10% bonus (not guaranteed, but likely). He would be working near Hayes & Harlington train stop. I have been looking at Ealing & Hillingdon for proximity to work and low commute costs. He has expressed an interest in biking to work and has a coworker who bike in from Uxbridge in under 20 minutes...

We have three boys 11, 8 & 5. Unless the company springs for an international school I will possibly homeschool them. 

So - my question is-- Can we afford to live & travel on 70K per year? 

My budget, as best I can figure would be:

Rent 1500
council tax 200
renters insurance 25
gas 75
electric 75
mobile phone 20
broadband 30
water 50
tv license 20
food 600
life ins 65
stateside storage 65
cc & student loans 350

Total monthly expenses would be around 3070 & net pay should be about 3948.

All amounts are in GBP

So -- what do you all think? Is this a reasonable budget? My guess is we would have about 900 GBP for local sightseeing, random expenses during the month and savings. (we do have a nice size nest egg that we would prefer not to touch but is there for absolute emergencies) We could then uses the quarterly paid bonuses for travel beyond England (France, Italy, Spain...). The point of this is to not only experience a different culture (and expose our kids to it) but to travel. 

Am I living a pipe dream or does this sound doable? Thanks for your input


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## nyclon (Apr 3, 2011)

What do you expect to get for £1500/month? It depends on what you are hoping to get, 2, 3, 4 bedrooms, garden, etc. and where as to whether that's adequate.

Do you expect £20/month for mobile phones for 2 people? I think that is optimistic.

While your husband might bike to work, you've left out public transport travel for yourself and your kids.

Cable/satellite TV?

Landline? Some internet service still relies on having a landline.


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## Natalie2b (Aug 11, 2012)

3 bed is fine. 4 would be nice, but not necessary. A garden would be nice... 

My husband's work provides his phone, so that would be for me only. 

We don't have cable or satellite here we just use Netflix and other online services, but that would need to be added. 

I hadn't anticipated needing a landline, we'll have check that one out.


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## nyclon (Apr 3, 2011)

I don't think you'll get 4 beds in Ealing or Hillingdon for £1500/month. Hillingdon is probably your better option for 3 bedrooms, but I think £1750 is a more realistic budget and give you a decent choice in that area.

A tv licence is £145.50/year.


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## Natalie2b (Aug 11, 2012)

I think we will make sure we can get our cc paid off completely before we head over and have a couple hundred extra to work with. We have 3 bedroom now - so while we would take a 4 bedroom I have been looking mainly at three...


Is Hillingdon a nice area? I know they have an American school there, from what I can tell from this far away it seems nice enough. I know Ealing seems like a easier shot into central London, but I am not sure how much that will matter... I am not sure if they will pay for us to have a look-see trip :/

Oh, clothing? We live in South Texas - so pretty much shorts & tshirts 9 to 10 months out of the year. I am sure I will need to allow a nice chunk of money before we head over to get our wardrobes up to par. 

But does 900ish GBP sound like a reasonable amount of money to have leftover after normal bills are paid so that we can get out and see things? I know a lot museums are free in London, but I would want to get out see - well-as much as humanly possible We would use the quarterly bonus to fund more expensive trips... If I am correct the younger boys (5 & 8) are not charged for riding the train/tube. Is that correct?


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## nanamoon (Aug 31, 2012)

Wow, it sounds like you will be living quite comfortably if you have that much to live off! It depends how extravagant you want to be. Phone bills can be very, very cheap if you use something like giffgaff- my husband and I use them and between us we pay 20 and have unlimited calls to each other.
As for utilities, you should check out moneysavingexpert for the best deals on phones and bills etc. I can imagine with young children, you'll want a good TV package for rainy days.
Public transport is not cheap. So travelling around will need to be factored in, and yes, the children go free.

I know my parents brought me and my sister up on a fraction of what you have and we lived comfortably, and having free things to do around London is great. You can get a lot of family discounts on things too.

I cannot say much for rent etc, because I don't have children, but I'm very frugal!


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## nyclon (Apr 3, 2011)

I don't really know anything about Hillingdon so sorry I can't give you any insight. I live in Central London and since I don't know anyone in Hillingdon, it's not anyplace I've had the need to go to.

As for clothes. You'll be lucky if you can wear shorts and t-shirts 9 to 10 days a year. I'm not exaggerating much. This summer was pretty awful weather wise and honestly we haven't had temps over 75 for more than a couple of weeks. It was also particularly rainy so you should think about getting rain coats and wellies. But, since it's an island we get weather from all directions and it an change pretty quickly. We have had some hot and horrible summers but we do have 4 seasons so you will never get more than 2 to 3 months of true summer weather. Winter's are usually more damp than cold and there is very little snow, but you will definitely need a good selection of sweaters (jumpers) and trousers (pants are underwear and hilarity ensues when you say something about your pants)and general cooler weather clothes along with winter coats.

Yes, I think kids 5-10 can generally ride the tube and buses for free but they need an id card which costs I think £10.

Most of the museums in London are free for the general museum but charge for special exhibits. Castles and things like that outside of London will have an entry fee. You can join things like the National Trust which maintains places like that to get entry into a bunch of places.

Train travel is expensive. I don't mean the tube or bus, but if you want to take a train into the countryside somewhere you need to plan well ahead to get more reasonably priced tickets. Buying tickets at the last minute will bankrupt you. We are not planners so we've learned our lesson on this, sometimes we have to plan!


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## expatathome (Jun 24, 2012)

Look into Ruislip which is in the borough of Hillingdon and Hanwell which is part of Ealing borough but cheaper - great community feel, central Ealing walkable or a short bus ride, great parks and good schools.


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## DPK (Nov 11, 2011)

London Borough of Hillingdon - Welcome to Hillingdon

Click on the above for Borough website.

I think you may find a 3 bed house in Hillingdon for your budget of £1500, but likely to be a newer build with smaller rooms, and a small garden.

Ruislip is quite a mixed area, some very expensive properties close to the common. other parts much more reasonable.

I have friends that have lived in Ruislip for many years, and lived there for 3 months whilst a property was being renovated.

It is what I would term "suburban".


Quite a bike ride twice a day for your husband.

Home schooling will make it much more difficult for the children to make new friends quickly, and schooling is very much part of the cultural experience of living in another country. It also gives you a good opportunity to meet other mums and to get more involved in a community.


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## Natalie2b (Aug 11, 2012)

I will have to research the schooling a bit more. The reason I am considering homeschooling is the age/grade level of my boys. In Texas your children legally do not have to start school until they are 6. A lot of parents start at 5, but it isn't uncommon for boys to wait until they have matured a bit more. I am very happy with this arrangement here. My boys are on the older edge of the crowd, rather than the youngest in class. That said - it may came back to bite me in the butt if we move over:/ My 11 year old is in 5th grade this year, which I believe corresponds with UK year 6, correct? My 8 year old just started 2nd grade, which would be year 3 there. And my 5 year old is starting a preschool program called "gift of time" which is meant for summer birthdays who are waiting another year. But in the UK system my 11 year old would already be starting year 7, 8 yr old in year 4 and 5 year old year 1 - I think. Which would put them all a year behind...

It would be fine if my husbands work was paying to put them in an international school, I think - but they are still fairly new to moving employees overseas and that isn't standard yet. 

I am definitely not opposed to placing them in the British school system I am just anticipating an adjustment period that might be easier if I am the one "catching them up". We would also have the added bonus of being able to travel whenever we wished, not just during school holidays (which would also make it more affordable!). Field trips to historical sights in the area, museums... I have also considered homeschooling them for the remainder of the school year while putting them on the wait list for whatever state school I want them in. I welcome opinions and input on this also. I definitely don't want to cheat them out of experiencing British culture, it is one of the reasons we are moving there in the first place


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## DPK (Nov 11, 2011)

Hi,

If your husbands company were to spring for private schooling, as a ball park figure think maybe 

£10k per annum for the two older children and a little less for your youngest, so another £25/30k on top of salary, do you think they might?

I do sometimes think we worry a great deal too much about our children slotting into different systems in terms of education. Most children, not all, are amazingly good at adapting, and you can always assist at home, in any initial areas of weakness

My son at one stage was at a school with a lot of children from overseas, and wherever they started from at the begining of the year, made little difference to how they finished the year, they all adapted and found their own natural level, and in some cases also had to learn english as well.

There is always so much to think about with such a big move,but if your children have good friends they will settle in and be happy more quickly.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

DPK said:


> Hi,
> 
> If your husbands company were to spring for private schooling, as a ball park figure think maybe
> 
> £10k per annum for the two older children and a little less for your youngest, so another £25/30k on top of salary, do you think they might?


Education allowance such as this will be fully taxable and NI-able, so reckon the gross salary needs to rise by £40k to £50k.



> I do sometimes think we worry a great deal too much about our children slotting into different systems in terms of education. Most children, not all, are amazingly good at adapting, and you can always assist at home, in any initial areas of weakness
> 
> My son at one stage was at a school with a lot of children from overseas, and wherever they started from at the begining of the year, made little difference to how they finished the year, they all adapted and found their own natural level, and in some cases also had to learn english as well.
> 
> There is always so much to think about with such a big move,but if your children have good friends they will settle in and be happy more quickly.


I fully agree. We parents don't give our children enough credit for adaptability. I was brought up and went to school in three different countries, and it hasn't hindered my education or subsequent career; instead it has certainly enriched my life immensely and opened up new opportunities.


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## Natalie2b (Aug 11, 2012)

I would love if they would pay for ACS or another school like it. It would definitely make it an easier transition, maybe so for me for than them I really don't worry much about my oldest and youngest. They are very bright, and as you point out adaptable. My middle guy is a different kind of kid. Very emotional, ADD, possible dyslexia... I am quite sure the schools have great systems to deal with those things, but I worry that it will be very hard on him catching up. His maths are just fine - but he struggles with reading a bit. But as you say I could assist at home. Although I really love the idea of being able to travel at will and a free curriculum to explore subjects that really interest them as well as normal subjects. 

Well - first things first - my husband has to actually confirm the job is his before I worry too much about schools.


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## expatathome (Jun 24, 2012)

I do think home schooling can be unfair on the child and can harm them socially, but understand your concerns about your middle child. 

My two are both August babies so youngest In the year AND we arrived half way through the year but both settled in quite easily and now have so many friends the downside is we rarely have a weekend without a birthday party to go to! They have friends of pretty much every nationality I can think of as well which adds to the cultural experience. You could always take your middle child out of the system if you found he wasn't thriving in a mainstream school.


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## Natalie2b (Aug 11, 2012)

That is another thought I have had. Just give it a whirl and if they aren't thriving move to homeschooling. That said there are groups people normally join to make sure the kids get socialization. Once we have a firm offer in hand and a date to shoot for I will start pinning down the school issues. Like pp have said - kids are resilient, so it's mostly the housing & financials that I want lined up.


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## expatathome (Jun 24, 2012)

Good luck with it all, I'm sure it'll work out just fine


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## Natalie2b (Aug 11, 2012)

Expatathome - If I remember correctly you are in Ealing, correct? Do you think we will be able to find a decent 3 or 4 bed in Ealing for 1500 to 1750? Are there other areas you might recommend? I think you said West Ealing had a higher percentage of non-english speaking children, which might be harder on the kids adjusting/making friends. Any tips on areas that we should look at so that the kids are around peers that speak english as their primary language. I don't have a prob with culturally diverse areas, obviously - it is London..., but I would prefer to make it easier on the kids...


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## expatathome (Jun 24, 2012)

You could easily get a 3 bed on that budget on Ealing but might struggle with a 4 bed - but maybe in Hanwell or some other parts. West Ealing is a little run down, would avoid. Choose between Pitshanger (nice but pricey), Ealing Broadway, Ealing Common, Northfields, South Ealing, Hanwell and Elthorne. Look on right move (it has a good iPhone app) and you'll get a good picture.


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## expatathome (Jun 24, 2012)

You'll find plenty of first language English people everywhere in Ealing (Brits, Irish, Americans, Canadians, South Africans, Aussies, kiwis galore) just avoid Southall where you're lucky even to find a street sign in English ;-) Fascinating place for an Indian cultural experience though, Especially if you like the food.


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## DPK (Nov 11, 2011)

Foxton's estate agency offices in Ealing


Have a look at Foxtons website, you will see what a 3/4 bed house costs in Ealing


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## expatathome (Jun 24, 2012)

Foxtons are one of the worst estate agents going. I wouldn't touch them!


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## erina (Feb 21, 2011)

Natalie2b said:


> So - my question is-- Can we afford to live & travel on 70K per year?


Um... yes! I live on about 10k. but then i dont have kids... but still ... yes.


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## DPK (Nov 11, 2011)

Each to their own.

Select any other local agent to demonstrate proof of house availability at the required budget.


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## expatathome (Jun 24, 2012)

To be fair I'm going mainly on their reputation which isn't good - no personal experience but think they tend to be quite 'high end' we used RSK to rent both places we have lived in here and no problems with them. Think Townends also ok.


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## DPK (Nov 11, 2011)

I always think that any Estate Agent is only as good as the manager and team in place at any one time.

I only selected Foxtons as they have a large portfolio of rental properties in the Ealing area, which would allow Natalie to look at types of property available, and the sort of things available within her budget.

Foxtons does like to present as a high end agent, but they do deal with all price ranges.


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## expatathome (Jun 24, 2012)

True indeed!

Forgot to say in original response that £70k is very similar to my husband's salary though he gets private health care for family (taxable) and free public transport pass for me and him on top. I work now as well but we managed perfectly fine for 2 years after I had my second baby in Ealing. We do have a car because as well as all the fab Euro countries we also like to travel to different parts of the UK on weekends. There is SO much more to this country than just London! That said I really think in an area like Ealing which is so well served by public transport - a car is a luxury and certainly not a necessity - though with children it can be useful and gives you more options of places to go with them. Within an hour or two's travel from Ealing we have the south coast, Lego Land, petting farms, wonderful countryside and do much more.


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## Natalie2b (Aug 11, 2012)

I have wondered about the car thing too. We really want to make the most of traveling while we are there. My first thought was to just use hire cars/rental cars. But if we want to drive after the first year we are there we have to get licensed, correct? How difficult is it to get a license without owning a car? If we don't get licensed after a year then we won't be able to drive, right?


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Natalie2b said:


> I have wondered about the car thing too. We really want to make the most of traveling while we are there. My first thought was to just use hire cars/rental cars. But if we want to drive after the first year we are there we have to get licensed, correct? How difficult is it to get a license without owning a car? If we don't get licensed after a year then we won't be able to drive, right?


You don't have to own a car in order to pass the test, as you book lessons with a driving school to get the practice specifically for passing the test. This is important because there are specific requirements for the test which you aren't used to, like when to check the mirrors and not crossing hands when turning the steering wheel. I suggest you get your provisional licence after 6 months (you can't get one before) and start taking lessons with a view to passing before the year is up. If you fail to pass within a year of arrival, full learner driver restrictions will come into play, meaning you need a fully-licensed driver to accompany you, display L-plates and are banned from motorways.


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## nyclon (Apr 3, 2011)

Additionally, you need to pass both a driving a theory test. You don't have to surrender your US license. Most people I know who have taken the driving test have taken at least 2 tries to pass.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

nyclon said:


> Additionally, you need to pass both a driving a theory test. You don't have to surrender your US license. Most people I know who have taken the driving test have taken at least 2 tries to pass.


Yes, so use the first six months, when you can't take the tests (only with provisional licence), to brush up on UK Highway Code (quite different from US) and get plenty of practice driving on UK roads through rental cars (your US license will be accepted by rental firms). 
The Highway Code : Directgov - Travel and transport
How to prepare for your theory test : Directgov - Motoring


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## Natalie2b (Aug 11, 2012)

Okay - one more question on salary. 

I used this link to determine net income based on a 70k salary:

UK PAYE Salary Wage Income Tax Calculator 2012 UK. Updated for 2012/2013 inland revenue tax year. Calculate wages pension national insurance and student loan repayments online.

Based on this website it shows we will bring home 3948 GBP per month. I also noticed on another thread a man was asking about a 40k salary and stated his HR rep told him he would have about 2900 per month in hand. Per the above website that amount would be 2477. So, assuming his HR rep is correct - why the difference? Is the website not taking into account we have three kids (no daycare costs)? There is a spot to add deductions, but I have no idea what deductions, if any, to add in...I realize we are in a higher tax bracket, but there is about 425 GBP difference between hi HR estimate and the website estimate. Any insight here? Thanks!


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Natalie2b said:


> Okay - one more question on salary.
> 
> I used this link to determine net income based on a 70k salary:
> 
> ...


Online calculator only works out your basic tax and national insurance contributions (NIC). In real life, people earning £70k or even £40k are likely to have benefits-in-kind such as private health insurance, company car or cheap loans etc, which generate further tax liability. Then there are other factors like pension contribution, which can reduce your tax (contributions are deducted from gross pay before tax and NIC are taken off). So overall take-home pay will differ quite significantly based on personal circumstances.


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## 2farapart (Aug 18, 2011)

And I have NO idea how someone on £40,000 takes home £2900 a month. I don't think that's right. It usually works out in the region of £2400 after basic tax and National Insurance - assuming no further taxable benefits need to be deducted.


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## Natalie2b (Aug 11, 2012)

Good! I was concerned that my calculations were going to be off somehow... As far as I know we won't have private ins, a car or loans. Though a car might be nice, lol


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