# An executive contract offered



## tigertmoore (Jun 2, 2008)

Friends: a flight out of the miserable bankrupt USA soon... hopefully next week and straight to Dubai then traveling as Senior Sales Manager for a very large major-construction supply company throughout the UAE and India... 

A few questions:

Salary offered is not that great according to the past but in todays' market the employer knows darn well it's quite alot more than what a similar position pays in PRC or India... AED 25,000 per month (no taxes on that as it's below the limit for us Americans). According to USA standards that would be somewhere around $120,000 and there are extremely few jobs posted for that amount here in the states... especially in the construction sector. 

No "housing" help but the employer has offered to cover 1 year's furnished apartment in 4 cheques withheld from salary. From a previous post, I should be able to do just fine at around 5,000 AED. 

Business Class flight to and from (it's a long flight from Phoenix Arizona).

Company credit card for expenses during my travels along with accoutrements of laptop and international cell phone. 

12 month contract with 11 months work and one month repatriated to whatever country I ask for. Is one month in fact customary? I've read many snippets about firms offering two months leave but perhaps that's old news?

After all my investigating, several questions remain...

1. Should I ask for a car or vehicle allowance with insurance while working in Dubai or is it customary for that to be on my own? Or perhaps there is no need of one at living and working near the Marina area? I have been told that my travel time is approximately 50% so would paying for a personal car even be worth the trouble? Taxi's suit me just fine when needed. 

2. Medical/Health/Dental: I understand that many employers do not offer entry to such insurance schemes... any pointers there? Especially Dental work? I have long-looked forward to getting my sorry teeth fixed and have noted several posts with excellent Dentists... do Dentristry Offices offer time-payments or is it pay as you go in full? 

3. Request of hotel while searching for a condo; 1-2-3 weeks? Any customary length of time? No wife/kids/dogs/cats/birds to bring along... 

4. Banking: I know that Citibank is there... what is the timeline to open an account once all papers are in order? I have read carefully many posts about banking rules...

5. Mens clothing shops that can outfit me for a reasonable amount instead of bringing my customary cowboy clothes along with me? 

Thanks for your time to read and respond with any sage advice!

Thomas Moore


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## ccr (Jun 20, 2010)

IMHO, that doesn't sound much for an "executive" offer:

- salary ok for sales position, not great.

- no housing allowance, will eat a lot into your salary if you want a nice place in a nice area. A nice 2-bedroom in JBR will cost you ~150k dhs / year.

- no car allowance, it is customary that you get a rental car or allowance. A nice 4x4 Pajero will cost you ~3+k dhs / month.

- no insurance coverage. It is customary to have that for Western expat positions.

- House hunting duration depends on the company, we stayed in hotel for 2 months.

- Banking will require you to have residence visa which took 2 weeks for me, it might take longer if you don't have all documents attested. Once have residence visa, open an account was immediate for me.

- Usually cheaper to buy and bring clothings from the US, not a lot of places with cowboys stuffs in Dubai.


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## CDOMonkey (Jan 18, 2011)

My opinion is that 25K AED (all in package) is not bad at all, actually pretty damn good - that's 300k per year and from the sound of it, you do not need a 2 bedroom anything, just stay in a 1 bedroom and buy some essentials from IKEA. I wouldn't even pay for a fully furnished place given your travel schedule. Not sure what your age is or how long you've been in the industry... but if you're mid 20's then you sound like you got a decent gig. If you're in mid 30's then.... if you're living like a mid 20 with no wife/kids/pets etc... then you're still GOLDEN. 

I would side with caution about medical insurance. This is an absolutely must and you need to negotiate it into your contract. Also, I'm getting 3 weeks in hotel... Not sure if it's going to be long enough - but sounds reasonable, especially when another competitor tried to poach me and offered me only 1 week.... so that should give a decent prospective.

Also don't forget all your traveling expenses, make sure to secure your air miles, hotel points and if you your corporate card has a benefits program, i'd suggest enrolling into that benefit program - whether or not it costs $ or not.


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## Jynxgirl (Nov 27, 2009)

The only way I would touch that, is if I was making less then 40K in the usa. If I was making anything above that, it wouldnt be worth it to me. That is an entry level salary. 

You should get at least 1/3 more then you make in the usa, plus you should get housing/medical/car allowance/flights.... The uae is expensive, unless you are coming from a major city that is VERY expensive you will find your money will not stretch quite so far here.


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## tigertmoore (Jun 2, 2008)

*Friends!*

Kind'a up late over there men... if only I were a 20 something again but no... staring at 50 coming up real soon. the kids are off to university on their own and I do have to pay the witch but not for much longer and as said, ANYONE offering anywhere near this salary here in the states woukld be overwhelmed with hundreds not qualified at all for what I do but many many dozens would be... and would be glad to get an offer at 50 grand USD.

A starving man will take the plate of food offered. 

The days of high pay to start is over in my industry... perhaps after a year or two I can negotiate my way up to double or triple the start pay but that only comes after success in sales... and the company will have to pay an extraordinary amount for my travel expenses... airfare, trade shows, hotel and dining customers could come up to my salary amount every month... several PRC men I know who are working a similar position in sales are being paid the equivilent of AED 5,000 per month and are darn glad to have it based on their living expenses back home in China... in the UAE it's a bit more $ than in the Far East.


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## Jynxgirl (Nov 27, 2009)

I have went out three days in a row, and blown thru 1500 dirhams. And not even high living, high styling. Just average living. Doing, eating out, buying little stuffs here and there, bit of drinks, etc that in the usa I wouldnt have probly spent 400 to 500 dirhams doing the similar things. If I would have went out with the group that I had offered to go out with, I would have added a 600 to 800 dirham night easy onto it. This place is VERY expensive!

I would say it is a dooable salary but dont expect to save much of anything. What an asian will accept vs a westerner is quite different. But then, you dont want to live like those asians that accept those positions making low salaries like that.....


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## ccr (Jun 20, 2010)

Sounds like you are happy with the offer so best of luck to you. If you are living modestly, then you will save some money to pay the "witch" 

Don't justify what the company pays for your travel as compensation. That's the cost of doing business and should not play into your salary unless you are counting free business meals as part of the compensation, but how much do you really save not paying food for 1/2 a month for 1 person, really ?

I travel extensively as well, but would be glad to be at home eating home-cooked meals and spending time with whom I want.

Try to get some sales bonus written into your contract, if you can.

I hope I gave you enough information regarding the bank / cloth / etc. If not, let me know.

Again, best of luck and welcome to UAE.


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## Canuck_Sens (Nov 16, 2010)

Hi,

It all boils down to how much you really need and want to save. Since they are not paying any lodging, Nor providing any support, you will have to look for places close to your work with one bedroom or have a roomie. They are eating out a lot ofyour benefits.

It will affect your life style. Well depends how you want to live right ? 

Cannot you at least negotiate some of the benefits ?

I agree with you that if things are tough back home you should venture yourself.

It might be a bit too late, but Americans can work in Canada due to the TN-VISA agreement between the two countries. It depends of course in which field youare; it has to be listed under NAFTA....maybe you can try something there ? I know some americans who have been living there for awhile


Good luck,


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## Andrew James (Nov 6, 2010)

ccr said:


> Sounds like you are happy with the offer so best of luck to you. If you are living modestly, then you will save some money to pay the "witch"
> 
> Don't justify what the company pays for your travel as compensation. That's the cost of doing business and should not play into your salary unless you are counting free business meals as part of the compensation, but how much do you really save not paying food for 1/2 a month for 1 person, really ?
> 
> ...


Hi,

Legitimate and bona fide business travel doesn't form part of taxable compensation. There's the potential to claim per diem deductions for days travelling too.

Best,

Andrew


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## Dubai_NewKid (Feb 17, 2011)

hey i have read all your posts and i must say they are very imformatve! I am originally from India and have a work exp of 7 years. I have my own business in India which i have started on my own, but now i want to move away from it. I was job hunting in the UAE for the past 2 weeks, and the only offer which i have been able to secure is for a sales executive! Its the entry level job and i was looking for a senior level job. However the package which they are offering me is 8000 dirhams a month + Commission which would be max 4000 aed per month, need to pay for my own car, housing, food. They will provide me one time travel tickets to my home country, medical insurance, mobile allowance. 
I was wondering whats the sort of avg. living expenses? If i take up on this offer, i surely am not going to save on anything......but the only thing that could justify taking it is, to get UAE work experience, driving license. Maybe after slugging it out for a year, i could get a better position else where.......

I am 29 years and single..... it would be nice to get some of your thoughts! Thankx


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## ccr (Jun 20, 2010)

Andrew Landin said:


> Legitimate and bona fide business travel doesn't form part of taxable compensation. There's the potential to claim per diem deductions for days travelling too.


Hi Andrew,

The way I read the original post was that he was rationalizing that his travel costs the company - which (to me) means nothing as far as personal benefits.

To me, my direct compensations consist of what I received in the bank + received as part of pre-tax benefits + received as stock options/bonus + promised as long-term retention bonus + what I don't have to pay to live (housing, utilities, car, school, flight home, etc).

Fringe benefits are what type of class I get to fly on business trips (business or economy), which hotel and how often can I take customers out - which are nice, but not important (in my book).

Per diem, let's say $50/day x 180 days (6 months) = $9000. If he gets all of it, not even enough to pay for his studio apartment.

End of the day, courses for horses. He is happy with the offer, and that's important. I just felt there is more room to negotiate up, if he wants.


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## Muzz786 (Mar 11, 2011)

Hi can you message me privately, i cant do so. 

was in a very similar position like yourself.



Dubai_NewKid said:


> hey i have read all your posts and i must say they are very imformatve! I am originally from India and have a work exp of 7 years. I have my own business in India which i have started on my own, but now i want to move away from it. I was job hunting in the UAE for the past 2 weeks, and the only offer which i have been able to secure is for a sales executive! Its the entry level job and i was looking for a senior level job. However the package which they are offering me is 8000 dirhams a month + Commission which would be max 4000 aed per month, need to pay for my own car, housing, food. They will provide me one time travel tickets to my home country, medical insurance, mobile allowance.
> I was wondering whats the sort of avg. living expenses? If i take up on this offer, i surely am not going to save on anything......but the only thing that could justify taking it is, to get UAE work experience, driving license. Maybe after slugging it out for a year, i could get a better position else where.......
> 
> I am 29 years and single..... it would be nice to get some of your thoughts! Thankx


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## CrowdedHouse (Feb 22, 2011)

For a single person, I think the salary package offered is in line, especially considering you cannot get that in the US right now.

Some things to keep in mind:
- If you are spending 50% of your time travelling, with some of that throughout the UAE, that's significant. You can't just pop into a taxi and go down to AD, Fujairah or Sharjah. It's quite a drive. Absolutely I would ask for a car allowance + gas reimbursement.

- Pretty sure employers must provide employees health insurance by law. They must provide at the minimum a government health card, most have private insurance plans. This will give you access to subsidized health care, which on the whole, is much cheaper than in the US (from my experience).

- 1 bedrooms are going dirt cheap even in the central areas (before the only options International City, Discovery Gardens, Bur Dubai, etc). Executive Towers in Business Bay is one of them, and that has a Metro stop in front. So you can get decent housing for less than most think, you have to search hard and bargain though.

- Don't underestimate the set-up costs you will incur. Appliances (if your rental doesn't come with them), utility hook ups, furniture, etc.


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## tigertmoore (Jun 2, 2008)

Friends: a wide variety of responses here and I do thank you for it! Collegiality is a hallmark and a point of friendship and I do look forward to meeting many posting here...

The travel bene's are of course not part of my salary package I am considering... simply put, while traveling I am spending the dime of the employer and not my own so it will impact somewhat as well as the air miles accrued I can use for my own purposes... otherwise not an impact to my wage taken to the bank. 

And as said, the salary offered is certainly not indicative of 2005... I was offered 6 years ago by a different major supplier a total package of about AED 600,000 and today that company is bankrupt and gone... they foolishly hooked up with a few nefarious main contractors who simply did not pay their bills and vanished...

The reality of today is an offer that will allow me to live decently while proving I am the man that they are in fact searching for and that is what I can hope for for the first year. My second and third years' service may be ones of monetary gain but my first year will be hamburger and not steak. 

I would hire a man exactly the same way. 

Of course consider the horrendous conditions of the men working the high rise... factual reporting abounds on the internet of their condition... I have no such complaints. 

My contract is reportedly on its way and then I have my own means for its translation and yes perhaps I will redline a few points requesting something a bit better... but in this time when the employer can get high advanced degrees up to Doctorate Level from several country's on the cheap, it is wise for me to accept what is offered and prove my worth and then after many millions in sales; then I have ammunition to ask for something more. 

Cheers!

Thomas Moore


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## friend2011 (Mar 16, 2011)

*pls.help*

hi 

i would like to know thru whic contact u got job offer in dubai. DID U GO IN PERSON TO DUBAI OR U JUST APPLIED FROM HERE.coz we r also planning to move. from the past 3 months we have been applying ,but no result. my husband is in IT FIELD. ANY ADVICE WILL BE APPRECIATED. WE R CURRENTLY IN U.S


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## CrowdedHouse (Feb 22, 2011)

tigertmoore said:


> The travel bene's are of course not part of my salary package I am considering... simply put, while traveling I am spending the dime of the employer and not my own so it will impact somewhat as well as the air miles accrued I can use for my own purposes... otherwise not an impact to my wage taken to the bank.


I completely disagree with you here. You are traveling to make the company money, I think you should strongly reconsider this point. It's not a matter of just driving to and from work, taxi and Metro will get expensive if you are truly spending 50% of your day out of the office. And if you are traveling between the Emirates, it will be VERY expensive.

The companies here are expecting people to come back with counter offers even in this climate. You wouldn't be asking for anything out of the ordinary for an EXECUTIVE sales position. My husband isn't in sales, travels >10% of the time for work, and we have a company car. Negotiation is part of the life here. Anyhow, good luck.


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## tigertmoore (Jun 2, 2008)

Friend 2011: In my field of Executive/Senior Construction Services, it is nearly impossible to even find out about positings available except through a Corporate Recruiter... it is a mandate that most if not all construction and supply firms fill their postings through an agency of one kind or the other... very rarely do they direct-hire. 

I have my CV on file with Recruiters in Hong Kong, several cities in India, one in Australia and two in Great Britain. Of those, the fellow in India had an insider-view to the particular company as they are well known in India and have posted many Indian Nationals with the firm but this time they were specifically looking for "white, european or american, medium age, bachelor, 20-30-years' experience with no physical deformities..."

Not what we would call here in America ADA Compliant! But that's the deal... my specific talents and skills came into play only AFTER the employer was satisfied that I met their initial criteria. 

Search Google and you will find many dozens of recruit agencies specializing in your particular field... get ahold of them, get your CV in order and ask for their critique of that CV as it will likely not get you a job on first glance... remember you are competing on a world stage and slave labour is plentiful... skilled who are willing to go and live in the UAE is not. 

Hope this helped!

TM


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## CDOMonkey (Jan 18, 2011)

CrowdedHouse said:


> For a single person, I think the salary package offered is in line, especially considering you cannot get that in the US right now.
> 
> Some things to keep in mind:
> - If you are spending 50% of your time travelling, with some of that throughout the UAE, that's significant. You can't just pop into a taxi and go down to AD, Fujairah or Sharjah. It's quite a drive. Absolutely I would ask for a car allowance + gas reimbursement.
> ...


If you dont mind me asking, what is considered "dirt cheap" in your eyes for a 1br furnished place. Dubbizle is showing business bay - 1br fully furnished around 96,000... which seems up there with the more expensive ones near the shoreline.

Prenegotiations though


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## CDOMonkey (Jan 18, 2011)

CrowdedHouse said:


> For a single person, I think the salary package offered is in line, especially considering you cannot get that in the US right now.
> 
> Some things to keep in mind:
> - If you are spending 50% of your time travelling, with some of that throughout the UAE, that's significant. You can't just pop into a taxi and go down to AD, Fujairah or Sharjah. It's quite a drive. Absolutely I would ask for a car allowance + gas reimbursement.
> ...


If you dont mind me asking, what is considered "dirt cheap" in your eyes for a 1br furnished place. Dubbizle is showing business bay - 1br fully furnished around 96,000... which seems up there with the more expensive ones near the shoreline.

Prenegotiations though


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## tigertmoore (Jun 2, 2008)

Friends: having spent the past two straight weeks searching Craigs List and postings on this forum and Dubizzle and whatnot, I am believing I can find a decent bachelor quarter as my needs are modest indeed... believe me whatever I am able to get will be better than where I have been. 

From a homeless orphan fool kid living on the street in the 70's to millionaire living in a mansion and then utterly broke and back on the road homeless is a snapshot of my past 32 years... coming up on 50 yo I had no idea of this life but it is the life God handed me so I am working with what I have and not what I want. 

But seriously, I have seen many 1 BR or studio flats that will suffice just fine... I no longer have any need of the lifestyle I once had... I have slept in a small cold room on the floor with two blankets and survived those experiences just fine. Toughened me up actually. 

And today (this morning my time) watching the stark tragedy of Japan reminds me "complain about nothing... deal with what you have". 

So! Thanks again to everyone here for posting a note... I'm quite certain I'll do just fine in a hotel for a week and find with the help of my employer a crash pad for a bachelor and then off I go on another adventure... where I lay my head at night is not really of concern to me... opportunity to better my condition is and that will take some time. 

Several very dear friends I met in Macau and then in Singapore and here in the US and down to the Caribbean have a life more difficult than mine and I know it. Each one would trade their miserable spot for mine and I know it. A few dead friends would also trade their spots for mine and a mate facing long hard years in a Federal Prison from his own idiocy would trade his cell for my spot upcoming... 

The thought of fat whining americans is no misnomer but a solid fact. Give an average american the chance to complain about anything and they will. Others of us americans who have learned the hard way that life is what you make of it are in the minority... I tell myself every single day to be grateful for 4 fabulous kids, and fabulous mother for those kids (albeit a miserable rotten now ex-wife!), dearest friends who support me and now the chance for international travel and get me the hell out of this low spot and the chance to earn my way back on top. 

thanks for the read! And for any here who do read this far, please do be assured that I have no rosy picture of the UAE in mind... I am quite aware of what I am getting into... it is simply put better than what I have now. 

Kind regards!

TM


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## rsinner (Feb 3, 2009)

If someone is advertising 96,000 AED for a one bed in Business Bay, then you know where to ask them to go to.
I wouldn't think that you would have to pay more than 60-65K AED anywhere for a one bed in Dubai


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## CrowdedHouse (Feb 22, 2011)

CDOMonkey said:


> If you dont mind me asking, what is considered "dirt cheap" in your eyes for a 1br furnished place. Dubbizle is showing business bay - 1br fully furnished around 96,000... which seems up there with the more expensive ones near the shoreline.
> 
> Prenegotiations though


We saw 3 bedrooms (unfurnished) for 95-100k at Executive Towers in the last week. Not sure how a 1br would be as much as you said.


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