# moving from Singapore to London



## makubex (Nov 6, 2011)

Hi!

I am currently working in Singapore as a system administrator for a financial company, and I'm being offered a similar but bigger role in London, and an opportunity to work alongside traders. I dont know just yet how much this company is willing to give. Im worried about the quality and cost of living (net) compared to Singapore. I am currently earning 7.5k sgd here, and I am able to support my wife and 2 kids (1 and 3yo). We have a maid as well. I'm not sure how much I should ask or expect the employer to offer me, Ive got no idea how expenses are in London. Im readimg various blogs and forum posts, but I would also like to get insights from my actual situation. TIA

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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

makubex said:


> Hi!
> 
> I am currently working in Singapore as a system administrator for a financial company, and I'm being offered a similar but bigger role in London, and an opportunity to work alongside traders. I dont know just yet how much this company is willing to give. Im worried about the quality and cost of living (net) compared to Singapore. I am currently earning 7.5k sgd here, and I am able to support my wife and 2 kids (1 and 3yo). We have a maid as well. I'm not sure how much I should ask or expect the employer to offer me, Ive got no idea how expenses are in London. Im readimg various blogs and forum posts, but I would also like to get insights from my actual situation.


7.5k or 7500 singapore dollar is about £3,750. I assume it's after-tax monthly salary.
£3,750 is a quite good salary even by London standards, equivalent to around £66,000 a year before tax. You should be able to manage on that by living in not too expensive area and in an average 2-bedroom flat, whose rent is around £1000 a month. Getting a full-time maid in London is very expensive and will probably cost about a third of your salary. Many people manage with just a cleaner for a few hours a week, which may cost around £30/week.
Ask for a few fringe benefits such as private medical cover (not essential because NHS is quite comprehensive but will give you more choice and cut down on waiting), pension scheme, share option and full relocation service. A company car may be useful if you can get a parking space. With a company car you only pay for private fuel (petrol or diesel) and parking, plus extra tax based on how polluting your car is. Other costs include council tax - around £100 a month, utilities about £120 (no air-con needed in UK but full central heating in winter), phone/broadband package around £30 a month and if desired, cable or satellite TV from £30 to £70 a month. About £30 for house contents insurance. This still leaves you with over £2000 a month on food, other shopping, commuting, occasional meals out and modest amout for leisure. If your wife stays at home you don't need childcare cost (though she will be allowed to work as dependant of Tier 2 worker), and your children are too young for full-time schooling - a nursery place for your older one and mother and baby/toddler's club for the younger one. State schools in UK are free and are quite good (perhaps not as good as in Singapore!), and it's an ideal time to move as your older one starts school properly at age 4 and you may be able to get a place at a school of your choice (good ones are always oversubscribed). For this reason move to an area with good schools, which probably means outer London rather than inner London. You pay more in commuting (assuming you work in Central London) but general costs are a bit lower and it's better environment for bringing up a family. Exact location depends largely on where you'll be working to cut down on commuting time.


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## makubex (Nov 6, 2011)

Joppa said:


> 7.5k or 7500 singapore dollar is about £3,750. I assume it's after-tax monthly salary.
> £3,750 is a quite good salary even by London standards, equivalent to around £66,000 a year before tax. You should be able to manage on that by living in not too expensive area and in an average 2-bedroom flat, whose rent is around £1000 a month. Getting a full-time maid in London is very expensive and will probably cost about a third of your salary. Many people manage with just a cleaner for a few hours a week, which may cost around £30/week.
> Ask for a few fringe benefits such as private medical cover (not essential because NHS is quite comprehensive but will give you more choice and cut down on waiting), pension scheme, share option and full relocation service. A company car may be useful if you can get a parking space. With a company car you only pay for private fuel (petrol or diesel) and parking, plus extra tax based on how polluting your car is. Other costs include council tax - around £100 a month, utilities about £120 (no air-con needed in UK but full central heating in winter), phone/broadband package around £30 a month and if desired, cable or satellite TV from £30 to £70 a month. About £30 for house contents insurance. This still leaves you with over £2000 a month on food, other shopping, commuting, occasional meals out and modest amout for leisure. If your wife stays at home you don't need childcare cost (though she will be allowed to work as dependant of Tier 2 worker), and your children are too young for full-time schooling - a nursery place for your older one and mother and baby/toddler's club for the younger one. State schools in UK are free and are quite good (perhaps not as good as in Singapore!), and it's an ideal time to move as your older one starts school properly at age 4 and you may be able to get a place at a school of your choice (good ones are always oversubscribed). For this reason move to an area with good schools, which probably means outer London rather than inner London. You pay more in commuting (assuming you work in Central London) but general costs are a bit lower and it's better environment for bringing up a family. Exact location depends largely on where you'll be working to cut down on commuting time.


thanks for your reply! I can say at this point that the offer will be around £5k gross more or less, and after income tax at .35 is £3250. there wont be a relocation allowance. Office is at King Edward st. With these figures, where is the most strategeic area to rent an apartment?

and, if you are being offered another gig in Singapore for 10.5k a month, would you advise dropping the London idea? My reason for entertaining the Ldn gig is the opportunity to work "with" the business folks, but if I wait enough in Singapore the opportunity might pop up as well (or not. theres a huge concentration of IT talent here)

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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

makubex said:


> thanks for your reply! I can say at this point that the offer will be around £5k gross more or less, and after income tax at .35 is £3250. there wont be a relocation allowance. Office is at King Edward st. With these figures, where is the most strategeic area to rent an apartment?
> 
> and, if you are being offered another gig in Singapore for 10.5k a month, would you advise dropping the London idea? My reason for entertaining the Ldn gig is the opportunity to work "with" the business folks, but if I wait enough in Singapore the opportunity might pop up as well (or not. theres a huge concentration of IT talent here)


£5k gross is £3450 net per month so still a good salary. King Edward St is in EC1 just north of St Paul's Cathedral where the current protest is taking place, and the nearest underground station is St Paul's on Central line. So a good area to live will be somewhere along the Central line in East London/Essex border, such as Leytonstone, Wanstead or Woodford, a popular commuter area. According to 2 bedroom property to rent in Wanstead - Wanstead 2 bed properties to rent - Zoopla, £1000 a month for a 2-bedroom property is a good average for the lower end of the market. Up to £1,500 a month gives you a wider choice, including a house with a garden.

Only you can decide whether moving to London is a good career move, though I'd have thought a London (UK, European) experience on your CV doesn't go amiss.


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## Mayhem (Sep 10, 2010)

makubex said:


> Hi!
> 
> I am currently working in Singapore as a system administrator for a financial company, and I'm being offered a similar but bigger role in London, and an opportunity to work alongside traders. I dont know just yet how much this company is willing to give. Im worried about the quality and cost of living (net) compared to Singapore. I am currently earning 7.5k sgd here, and I am able to support my wife and 2 kids (1 and 3yo). We have a maid as well. I'm not sure how much I should ask or expect the employer to offer me, Ive got no idea how expenses are in London. Im readimg various blogs and forum posts, but I would also like to get insights from my actual situation. TIA
> 
> Sent from my GT-S5830 using Expat Forum


Just a bit of a comparison for you. For some background, I have been living in London for the last year, but previous to this I was offered a (local) job in Singapore at $9,000 a month, so I did some research and spoke to my (Singaporean) friends. My wife is from JB so I've been to Singapore a number of times (love the place). My London position is expat, so the money is much better and I'd never been to Europe before, so I had nothing to lose. My hometown is Perth, Australia.

Salary/Tax: UK taxes are MUCH higher than in Singapore. Also keep in mind that UK incomes are based on a yearly salary (£5000 a month = £60,000 a year), while in Singapore you get paid for 13 months (1 bonus month) for 12 months of continuous employment. So you get paid an extra month in Singapore and you pay MUCH less tax.

Rent: Rent in both London and Singapore is VERY expensive. London is probably a bit cheaper. I am paying £1733 a month for a 2 bed, 2 bath in Ealing (Zone 3).

Public Transport: London Underground vs. MRT. No competition, MRT is much cheaper and FAR more reliable.

Car ownership: Cars are VERY cheap here in the UK. Petrol, insurance and other running costs are moderately high. Cars in Singapore are ridiculously expensive.

Safety: Singapore is one of the safest countries in the world. London has more of its fair share of dodgy areas and there is a thriving 'underclass' here.

Groceries/Food: Food in London is quite cheap, but Singapore is cheaper.

Unemployment: The job market is pretty bad here in London at the moment. Singapore has much lower unemployment.

Maid: You won't be able to afford a maid here (cooking/cleaning etc) but you can get a cleaner to come once a week and clean/iron for about £20-30 a week.

My advice: Stay in Singapore, out of the Eurozone until further notice. Come here as an expat, by all means, but the economy is broken. The Singapore Government should sell it's experience on how to run an economy to the UK. Sure you don't have quite as many 'civil liberties' as the UK, but that's not necessarily a bad thing when it comes to what's best for society as a whole.


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## jlms (May 15, 2008)

Singapore can run under an autocratic system of government only because its peculiar history, size and geographical location.

Sooner or later Singapore will hit an economic bubble, and they will learn the normal way that they are not very special when it comes to economic management.

Only Singaporeans advocate for less civil liberties, to what I would say no, thanks.


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