# Bad news for opponents of the smoking ban



## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Another flip-flop from Rajoy.



> *PP puts platform pledge to alter public smoking laws on back burner*
> The Health Ministry will not make changes to anti-smoking legislation, a spokesman stated briefly last week. Although reforms to the law had not been on the Popular Party (PP) election platform, then-candidate Mariano Rajoy suggested during his campaigning that, if he won, he might reintroduce separate areas for smokers and non-smokers in bars and restaurants - an initial arrangement that was struck down by a January 2011 reform that completely banned smoking in closed areas.


PP puts platform pledge to alter public smoking laws on back burner · ELPAÍS.com in English


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Good news...but he did say 'might' so not really a flip-flop.
Since when have you expected candidates to stick to pre-election promises??


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## Guest (Jan 6, 2012)

Alcalaina said:


> Another flip-flop from Rajoy.
> 
> 
> 
> PP puts platform pledge to alter public smoking laws on back burner · ELPAÍS.com in English


The smoking ban is here to stay. It is an emotional issue, but I can't see any government overturning the current legislation.

I'm a non smoker. I would prefer separate areas for smokers. As it is now, I can't sit outside in a restaurant any more because that's where all the smokers are.


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## Guest (Jan 6, 2012)

Mark Twain once said, "giving up smoking is the easiest thing in the world, I know because I've done it a thousand times".


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## jimenato (Nov 21, 2009)

I don't think it has made a huge difference to bar and restaurant trade. I guess smokers might gravitate towards those establishments which are more smoking-friendly e.g. with a terrace or toldo rather than just opening onto the street. But I don't think people are staying home because of it. 

We have probably lost a little bit of trade from the odd smoker but I know for a fact that some others now come in because of the smoke free atmosphere.

BTW in our village, to many peoples surprise, the smoking ban is strictly adhered to

BTW2 several of our friends/customers have recently given up:clap2:.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

jimenato said:


> I don't think it has made a huge difference to bar and restaurant trade. I guess smokers might gravitate towards those establishments which are more smoking-friendly e.g. with a terrace or toldo rather than just opening onto the street. But I don't think people are staying home because of it.
> 
> We have probably lost a little bit of trade from the odd smoker but I know for a fact that some others now come in because of the smoke free atmosphere.
> 
> ...


Yes I was wondering how it had affected you, given the concerns you had a year ago. Did you resolve the issue with your rear terrace and whether the windows counted as walls or not?

We've had a couple of bars close here, but more because of the economic situation than because of smoking. Meanwhile two new ones have opened!


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## thrax (Nov 13, 2008)

I gave up smoking before I started. By far the easiest way.


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## jimenato (Nov 21, 2009)

Alcalaina said:


> Yes I was wondering how it had affected you, given the concerns you had a year ago. Did you resolve the issue with your rear terrace and whether the windows counted as walls or not?
> 
> We've had a couple of bars close here, but more because of the economic situation than because of smoking. Meanwhile two new ones have opened!


We assume that it is OK to smoke out there with all the windows and the roof open which is fine for the summer. We have a very large parasol which gives shade to the whole area. Nobody has complained and several other bar owners have seen it and said nothing. In winter they have to stand out in the road which isn't so bad as long as it isn't actually raining. It doesn't seem to rain any more here anyway.

Three or four bars have closed here too - but I would put it down to the general climate rather than the smoking ban. In our village there were 27 eating and drinking places three years ago - we are now down to 23 I think but that is really still an awful lot.


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## 90199 (Mar 21, 2010)

Even here in our complete isolation, the law has been respected.


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## tonyinspain (Jul 18, 2011)

Doesnt help the poor sods thats closed their bars afyer spending thousands of euros having a smoking non smoking area
Just like these idiots to do about turn
Bull gate comes to mind !!!)))


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

tonyinspain said:


> Doesnt help the poor sods thats closed their bars afyer spending thousands of euros having a smoking non smoking area
> Just like these idiots to do about turn
> Bull gate comes to mind !!!)))


But he isn't doing an about-turn. That's the point. He's keeping the status quo.
Anyone who spent 'thousands of euros' on setting up separate areas for smokers within the last five years was imo rather silly.
It was obvious that this legislation would be Europe-wide eventually.
Good thing too. Smokers should practice their vice at home, ideally, as does my smoker OH.
Nothing spoils an evening out more than having some thoughtless person blowing smoke all over you. 
Smoking should NEVER be allowed where food of any kind is served.
But we've been over all this before....


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## gus-lopez (Jan 4, 2010)

I would be surprised if there wasn't a relaxation eventually. 
Using a bit of lateral thinking & a few facts means that it would be in their own interests to relax the ban. 
1) Sales of cigarettes are down causing a loss in tax revenue of nearly 4 billion. they could do with this to offset the debts !
2) Less people are dying, These cost money , they'll want a pension eventually.

Most bar owners , certainly around here will tell you that the first 3 months of the ban were 'brutal'. Gradually it picked back up but they've all found that people eating will leave imediately after . The afternoon 'lazy' coffee & brandys has become coffee & gone. The meals have been curtailed in hardly anyone wanting dessert . The afternoon card players have all disappeared.The list goes on. 
All of this is a fall in bar takings & a fall in tax paid.

This is after every bar around here that could, put in where possible outside areas , if they didn't have them already , plus tv's & space heaters ( to aid the ozone depletion ! ). & trade is still down.
The main one that I use is now like the Marie Celeste . The two old boys who'd sit drinking brandy for 2 or 3 hours haven't been seen for months , a place that was always busy is now struggling & it's the same with all of them. The people who used to frequent them , who are in the main friends & neighbours, still do but less so & they spend less time & money in them !
Why they couldn't have seperate smoking & non-smoking bars/restaurants, like the Germans, baffles me.


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## Guest (Jan 9, 2012)

gus-lopez said:


> I would be surprised if there wasn't a relaxation eventually.
> Using a bit of lateral thinking & a few facts means that it would be in their own interests to relax the ban.
> 1) Sales of cigarettes are down causing a loss in tax revenue of nearly 4 billion. they could do with this to offset the debts !
> 2) Less people are dying, These cost money , they'll want a pension eventually.
> ...


In the bar I frequent, neither of the two girls who tend bar smoke. If they split the bar into two areas, is it fair that one member of staff should work in conditions they don't want. It could be argued they should leave there job and it be filled by a smoker. Would that be considered fair.
I agree that the bars have become empty, but the business next to the bar has gone bust and they employed a lot of people. It could be the economic situation causing people to stay away.


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## tonyinspain (Jul 18, 2011)

I owned a bar with the economic situation the brewery inflating prices
Smoking ban
Electricity bills going over the roof (600 to1100)a month even though i turned off most of the equipment and installed energy saving lights we couldnt survive 
All this ruined our business and funny enough when i sold it the new owner after 5months has closed it down 
They should have left it to the bar owners to be smoking or non smoking and to the customers to decide which bar to attend
Then all the non smokers would have the option


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

In the UK its seems that bars and restaurants are now spending £1000s to "furnish" outside areas with comfy chairs, tables, plants, heaters (very environmentally friendly - NOT), speakers with music, even access to the bar..... Kinda daft really cos even the non smokers go outside, leaving an empty bar inside lol!!! But people have got used to it now

Jo xxxx


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## jimenato (Nov 21, 2009)

tonyinspain said:


> I owned a bar with the economic situation the brewery inflating prices
> Smoking ban
> Electricity bills going over the roof (600 to1100)a month even though i turned off most of the equipment and installed energy saving lights we couldnt survive
> All this ruined our business and funny enough when i sold it the new owner after 5months has closed it down
> ...


Sad story - I hope it doesn't happen to me. If it does it will be killer utilities bills rather than the smoking ban.

Allowing bars to choose was tried some time back and it didn't work - all the bars chose to go smoking. 

Perhaps bars could be allowed to purchase a special smoking licence? I would say anything from 2000 to 20,000 Euros dependant upon size. Of course they would then have to charge more for everything.

I would have preferred separate smoking areas but as tejeda says if a bar has a smoking area then employees will be exposed to smoke and what most people forget is that the smoking ban is about employee health.


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## jimenato (Nov 21, 2009)

Incidentally I have never lived in the UK while the ban was in force and it's only been in Spain for a year but it seemed very strange (and wrong) to me to be sitting next to a table of smokers today while having breakfast in Morrisons in Gib.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

jimenato said:


> Incidentally I have never lived in the UK while the ban was in force and it's only been in Spain for a year but it seemed very strange (and wrong) to me to be sitting next to a table of smokers today while having breakfast in Morrisons in Gib.


I dont like and never have liked the idea of smoking where there is food! 

Jo xxx


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## jimenato (Nov 21, 2009)

jojo said:


> I dont like and never have liked the idea of smoking where there is food!
> 
> Jo xxx


That'll be bars and restaurants then. You've come round then jojo?


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

jimenato said:


> That'll be bars and restaurants then. You've come round then jojo?


Not at all. I've always said that bars should be given the choice, restaurants shouldnt! 

Jo xxxx


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## jimenato (Nov 21, 2009)

jojo said:


> Not at all. I've always said that bars should be given the choice, restaurants shouldnt!
> 
> Jo xxxx


But .... bars in Spain all do food


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

jimenato said:


> But .... bars in Spain all do food



but they're not restaurants, they're BARS!! Have a non smoking eating area in a bar and a non smoking non eating area in a restaurant!! Stop splitting hairs LOL! 

jo xxx


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

jojo said:


> but they're not restaurants, they're BARS!! Have a non smoking eating area in a bar and a non smoking non eating area in a restaurant!! Stop splitting hairs LOL!
> 
> jo xxx


But what about all the people who sit at the bar and eat their breakfast or tapas? You can't change an entire way of life and make them go sit at a table in the comedor!


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Alcalaina said:


> But what about all the people who sit at the bar and eat their breakfast or tapas? You can't change an entire way of life and make them go sit at a table in the comedor!


True, but then I guess they're probably quite ok with a bit of *** smoke as they always have been. I'm sure the smokers around them would say the same thing about changing their entire way of life and going outside to smoke. 

That is a grey area and I guess its up to bars how they handle that one and how their regulars feel. I know that just before I left Spain I went to our old local bar in the hills of Alhaurin and they were all back to smoking inside, most of the eaters at the bar were also the smokers at the bar and didnt care one bit and that was with the blessing of the local guardia, who still smoked in their police car! - their opinion was that it was a rule for the bars down on the coast, not them. 

Jo xxx


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