# Salaries, seems like a taboo subject



## iamnotmad (May 21, 2015)

I'm expecting an offer to relocate to Barcelona. Is 120,000 EUR per year (pre tax) enough for a family of 4? We are relocating from the US. What is that NET out of that salary?

Anyone know any of the semi private schools? I want my kids emerged in the local culture.

My potential employer is around Sagrada Familia. What neighborhoods are recommended for expats with kids around the area? Either driving or public transport? I don't want to commute for more than 20 minutes.

I've been to Barcelona, just have a hard time finding relative info online. Either I find information from high paid executives that suggest areas with rent that seems extravagant, or from part timers living in a closet with friends and those accommodations may not work for a family of four.


Thanks


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## extranjero (Nov 16, 2012)

Sounds like more than enough unless you have a very luxurious lifestyle!
It's a salary most Spaniards can only dream of


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## iamnotmad (May 21, 2015)

extranjero said:


> Sounds like more than enough unless you have a very luxurious lifestyle!
> It's a salary most Spaniards can only dream of


Thanks for the reply

Define luxurious. We don't eat out every day? I buy regular clothes, but not ****ty brands. Do you know the net on that salary?


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## Isobella (Oct 16, 2014)

I would think that if a Company is offering a foreigner a job on that salary scale they will be handling the relocation.


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## mickbcn (Feb 4, 2013)

A lot of families are living here with 1000 euros for month, imagine what you can do with 10 times this quantity.


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## iamnotmad (May 21, 2015)

Isobella said:


> I would think that if a Company is offering a foreigner a job on that salary scale they will be handling the relocation.


Yes, relocation is included, I am trying to get relevant info on NET salary, areas to live in, schools from regular people, hence relying on forums.


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## iamnotmad (May 21, 2015)

mickbcn said:


> A lot of families are living here with 1000 euros for month, imagine what you can do with 10 times this quantity.


There are people living with 1000USD per month in the US too. I'm trying to get relevant information from regular people, hence relying on forums.


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## 90199 (Mar 21, 2010)

iamnotmad said:


> There are people living with 1000USD per month in the US too. I'm trying to get relevant information from regular people, hence relying on forums.



Good luck with your move, I am sure you will manage O.K. sorry cannot help, I am 1500 miles to the south west of Barcelona, way out in the Atlantic


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

iamnotmad said:


> Yes, relocation is included, I am trying to get relevant info on NET salary, areas to live in, schools from regular people, hence relying on forums.


If I were in your situation I would ask the company making the offer directly. After all, all they have to do to find the answer is to feed your data to the HR dept, and it seems reasonable that you should want to know your nett earnings as well as the gross. Far more reliable than asking on forums.
I have no idea because I'm self employed and I don't earn as much either, so I don't know what tax bracket you'd be in or anything about local tax issues


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

If you can cope with the Spanish, you could use an online calculator like this one (for 2014, from next year the tax rates will be lower) to find out how much tax you'd pay. Then there will be social security contributions too.

Cómo calculo mi tipo de retención del IRPF para 2014 | Economía | Cinco Días


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## iamnotmad (May 21, 2015)

Lynn R said:


> If you can cope with the Spanish, you could use an online calculator like this one (for 2014, from next year the tax rates will be lower) to find out how much tax you'd pay. Then there will be social security contributions too.
> 
> Thanks for the link. It was usefully to ballpark. Now if only people could actually take the time to list some prices of regular staples  We don't spend over $1000USD on food in the US currently..and we buy organic from Whorefoods (Wholefoods) We don't splurge or waste, generally speaking and compared to a regular American consumer. I hear some colleagues having even $2000 grocery spending. That just baffles me


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## Sirtravelot (Jul 20, 2011)

iamnotmad said:


> Lynn R said:
> 
> 
> > If you can cope with the Spanish, you could use an online calculator like this one (for 2014, from next year the tax rates will be lower) to find out how much tax you'd pay. Then there will be social security contributions too.
> ...


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

iamnotmad said:


> Lynn R said:
> 
> 
> > If you can cope with the Spanish, you could use an online calculator like this one (for 2014, from next year the tax rates will be lower) to find out how much tax you'd pay. Then there will be social security contributions too.
> ...


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## Rabbitcat (Aug 31, 2014)

All seems a big yawn to me

If the poster lives quite modestly as he claims- why would they even need to question if such a large sum of €120k is sufficient??

I never believe all I read....


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## Sirtravelot (Jul 20, 2011)

Rabbitcat said:


> All seems a big yawn to me
> 
> If the poster lives quite modestly as he claims- why would they even need to question if such a large sum of €120k is sufficient??
> 
> I never believe all I read....


Maybe Americans think Europe is a socialist-communist dystopia?


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

iamnotmad said:


> Lynn R said:
> 
> 
> > If you can cope with the Spanish, you could use an online calculator like this one (for 2014, from next year the tax rates will be lower) to find out how much tax you'd pay. Then there will be social security contributions too.
> ...


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## iamnotmad (May 21, 2015)

Sirtravelot said:


> iamnotmad said:
> 
> 
> > Use that website to compare costs between countries and cities. It's pretty good.
> ...


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

Rabbitcat said:


> All seems a big yawn to me
> 
> If the poster lives quite modestly as he claims- why would they even need to question if such a large sum of €120k is sufficient??
> 
> I never believe all I read....


Do you know what they'd have to pay to rent a property in a good area of a large US city, or how much they'd need to pay in health insurance premiums and co-payments for a family of 4, even if they had coverage in an employer's scheme? Maybe a salary of €120K would not seem so much, look at the insane amounts some people get paid in London (and the insane house prices to match).


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## iamnotmad (May 21, 2015)

Lynn R said:


> iamnotmad said:
> 
> 
> > Again, you could use an online comparison site for prices from Spanish supermarkets (they tend to have the same prices across Spain, whereas prices in independent shops and markets would be higher in some areas of the country than in others). Here's one:-
> ...


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## Rabbitcat (Aug 31, 2014)

Each to their own Lynn. 120k is still a large sum in Spain for most people no matter what way you read it


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

Rabbitcat said:


> Each to their own Lynn. 120k is still a large sum in Spain for most people no matter what way you read it


It's all relative. It certainly is to me, but tax rates are highish on high salaries, as are social security contributions. If you want to rent a nice home for a family in a good area of cities like Barcelona or Madrid, it will cost much, much more than my modest property in Andalucia. International school fees for two children, and again the good schools in Barcelona will charge higher fees.


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## iamnotmad (May 21, 2015)

Rabbitcat said:


> All seems a big yawn to me
> 
> If the poster lives quite modestly as he claims- why would they even need to question if such a large sum of €120k is sufficient??
> 
> I never believe all I read....


I guess the definition of modest or luxurious lifestyle is subjective. I'm just trying to get a real feeling from regular folks, and so far (at least all contributing with comments here) are saying is more than enough.

We shall see.


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## Rabbitcat (Aug 31, 2014)

As I say Lynn we all read/ are impressed- differently by what we read.

For me if your relocation costs etc are all sorted etc theres few places -especially in Spain-you would have any worries on 10k a month.

Maybe I live too much in a poorer/ real world


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## Pazcat (Mar 24, 2010)

Geez, I thought we had a good salary for a family of 4 to live on but it's nowhere near 120K.
You will/should be absolutely fine and be able to bank a few thousand a month after all is said and done.

The biggest thing will be rents so check idealista or fotocasa for the type of property and the area you want and see how much a month that would be.


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

iamnotmad said:


> Lynn R said:
> 
> 
> > iamnotmad said:
> ...


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## iamnotmad (May 21, 2015)

Pazcat said:


> Geez, I thought we had a good salary for a family of 4 to live on but it's nowhere near 120K.
> You will/should be absolutely fine and be able to bank a few thousand a month after all is said and done.
> 
> The biggest thing will be rents so check idealista or fotocasa for the type of property and the area you want and see how much a month that would be.


Thanks for being concise and staying on subject!  I have looked for furnished apts for the first year on other sites..there seems to be really wide ranges (in areas I have found expats live, closer to schools, etc) Odd thing..ranges are wide..but some apts are crappy (at least from the photos)

Again..thanks for your reading comprehension skills


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

Rabbitcat said:


> As I say Lynn we all read/ are impressed- differently by what we read.
> 
> For me if your relocation costs etc are all sorted etc theres few places -especially in Spain-you would have any worries on 10k a month.
> 
> Maybe I live too much in a poorer/ real world


But if 120K is the gross salary he won't be getting 10K per month, that's the point. If life in the USA is expensive he may not be aware how much cheaper it is to live here.

This forum is a funny old place at times. People get stick for wanting to move here with no jobs or with the prospect of only being able to find low paid work at best. Then someone comes along who has been offered a well paid job and he gets stick too, with people making all kinds of disparaging remarks. Is there some proscribed income range that everyone must fall into (not too poor, not too affluent) to avoid bringing wrath down upon their heads?


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## iamnotmad (May 21, 2015)

Lynn R said:


> iamnotmad said:
> 
> 
> > Lynn R said:
> ...


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## iamnotmad (May 21, 2015)

Lynn R said:


> But if 120K is the gross salary he won't be getting 10K per month, that's the point. If life in the USA is expensive he may not be aware how much cheaper it is to live here.


That's the point I'm trying to make. If I make 120k per year, after taxes if I keep half, plus rent and other expenses (without splurging), I should be ok from what everyone is saying.


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## skip o (Aug 1, 2011)

Definitely look thoroughly into taxes. And don't forget to look into wealth taxes. Lots of conflicting information about that. And while Catalunya likes to complain about all the taxes they take in that go to the federal government, Catalunya also likes to have higher taxes/ lower deductions than many other regions.

Overall, living expenses in Barcelona are in the same realm as living expenses in Boston or US cities like that. It's less expensive than NYC and much less expensive than Paris or London.

For a place to live, have you looked into Eixample? It has plenty of places big enough for a family of 4. If you want a yard you will need to look further outside of town.


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## Isobella (Oct 16, 2014)

Spain rates a 5th highest taxed country, Sweden is the top. My Cousin has a very good lifestyle (2 kids one at uni) in the USA on a Teacher Salary. 

Relocation packages usually cover cost of Children's education and set up costs in the EU.


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## iamnotmad (May 21, 2015)

skip o said:


> Definitely look thoroughly into taxes. And don't forget to look into wealth taxes. Lots of conflicting information about that. And while Catalunya likes to complain about all the taxes they take in that go to the federal government, Catalunya also likes to have higher taxes/ lower deductions than many other regions.
> 
> Overall, living expenses in Barcelona are in the same realm as living expenses in Boston or US cities like that. It's less expensive than NYC and much less expensive than Paris or London.
> 
> For a place to live, have you looked into Eixample? It has plenty of places big enough for a family of 4. If you want a yard you will need to look further outside of town.


yeah...still looking to gauge what I'm willing to spend, comfort level, etc. Someone recommended fotocasa (great site and layout)


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Lynn R said:


> But if 120K is the gross salary he won't be getting 10K per month, that's the point. If life in the USA is expensive he may not be aware how much cheaper it is to live here.
> 
> This forum is a funny old place at times. People get stick for wanting to move here with no jobs or with the prospect of only being able to find low paid work at best. Then someone comes along who has been offered a well paid job and he gets stick too, with people making all kinds of disparaging remarks. Is there some proscribed income range that everyone must fall into (not too poor, not too affluent) to avoid bringing wrath down upon their heads?


For my part I'm just surprised that the OP seems to have no idea of what he's coming to with his fairly large family, except a gross salary figure. I'm surprised that he's got as far as a job offer without having more information. I'm surprised that the questions he's asking have not been asked to the company which is offering this high salaried job (for Spain) as I would expect them to be accustomed to this kind of thing. Maybe not. If I was going to acept a job offer in this category I would expect the company to have this information ready for me, probably in a nice thick folder and printed on heavy paper.
No wrath.
No disparaging remarks.
Just surprise.

Congratulations on the job. Seems like you're going to have a great time here!

I hope this company knows more about what it's doing when it comes to getting you your visa though!


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## iamnotmad (May 21, 2015)

Pesky Wesky said:


> iamnotmad said:
> 
> 
> > I'm just wondering what experience or knowledge you have of Spain, and what the company you're possibly going to work for includes in its relocation package. Have they given you any information at all because prices, cost of living, school fees, goods available... all of that I would expect the employer to give me a heads up on that.
> ...


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## iamnotmad (May 21, 2015)

Pesky Wesky said:


> For my part I'm just surprised that the OP seems to have no idea of what he's coming to with his fairly large family, except a gross salary figure. I'm surprised that he's got as far as a job offer without having more information. I'm surprised that the questions he's asking have not been asked to the company which is offering this high salaried job (for Spain) as I would expect them to be accustomed to this kind of thing. Maybe not. If I was going to acept a job offer in this category I would expect the company to have this information ready for me, probably in a nice thick folder and printed on heavy paper.
> No wrath.
> No disparaging remarks.
> Just surprise.
> ...


My inquiry is preliminary leg work prior to finishing the final contract. I have done research and have visited Barcelona numerous times for business, never actually lived there. 

I was told I will be given all this info, doesn't hurt to have numerous sources of information, does it?


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## Chopera (Apr 22, 2013)

Barcelona might (or might not) be a bit more pricey than Madrid (where my family of 4 are) but €120k would be fine here. €2000/month gets you a decent flat/house with pool in a decent area, and you can eat out reasonably well for €100 (depends on the age of the kids and the booze of course). Public transport in the centre if €55/month.

Probably biggest issue is sorting out the school for the kids. How old are they?

Concertados (I assume that's what the op meant by "semi-private") are virtually free but the best ones might be full. private schools tend to be around €1000 pcm, depending on school, age of kids, school bus, etc.


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## iamnotmad (May 21, 2015)

Chopera said:


> Barcelona might (or might not) be a bit more pricey than Madrid (where my family of 4 are) but €120k would be fine here. €2000/month gets you a decent flat/house with pool in a decent area, and you can eat out reasonably well for €100 (depends on the age of the kids and the booze of course). Public transport in the centre if €55/month.
> 
> Probably biggest issue is sorting out the school for the kids. How old are they?
> 
> Concertados (I assume that's what the op meant by "semi-private") are virtually free but the best ones might be full. private schools tend to be around €1000 pcm, depending on school, age of kids, school bus, etc.


They are in elementary school now in the US. I found privte schools, same rates as the US it seems.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

iamnotmad said:


> My inquiry is preliminary leg work prior to finishing the final contract. I have done research and have visited Barcelona numerous times for business, never actually lived there.
> 
> I was told I will be given all this info, doesn't hurt to have numerous sources of information, does it?


No it doesn't.
Maybe it's just that you're doing it a different way to how I would have done. I'd have looked at all the info about Barcelona before having an offer so that when/ if I was offered something I'd know if the offer really was interesting or not.
Different people different ways of operating.

So, you'll be ok financially in Barcelona, but this of course also depends on what your expectations are and what you'd be leaving behind, what your standard of living is like there. To start with from what I understand houses can be more spacious in the US and cities can be bigger with more facilities and cleaner probably too...


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## iamnotmad (May 21, 2015)

Pesky Wesky said:


> No it doesn't.
> Maybe it's just that you're doing it a different way to how I would have done. I'd have looked at all the info about Barcelona before having an offer so that when/ if I was offered something I'd know if the offer really was interesting or not.
> Different people different ways of operating.
> 
> So, you'll be ok financially in Barcelona, but this of course also depends on what your expectations are and what you'd be leaving behind, what your standard of living is like there. To start with from what I understand houses can be more spacious in the US and cities can be bigger with more facilities and cleaner probably too...


I did preliminary search on forums..just lazy to register and ask the question myself. I did find very conflicting info; as you mentioned, based on how people felt about the issue, subjectively. 

Yeah, I am sure I'll be missing "clean" (depends where you live in the US) facilities...but in the US you need to drive everywhere..kind of getting sick of that. I want to go shopping with a short walk for a quick purchase., or a metro hop, or a short cab ride. Where I currently reside, it's insane. How infrastructure is build. Need to drive to buy the most basic things.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

iamnotmad said:


> ....but in the US you need to drive everywhere..kind of getting sick of that. I want to go shopping with a short walk for a quick purchase., or a metro hop, or a short cab ride. Where I currently reside, it's insane. How infrastructure is build. Need to drive to buy the most basic things.


Yes, That's something that I found difficult in the states and I was only there for three months!


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## 213979 (Apr 11, 2013)

Sirtravelot said:


> Maybe Americans think Europe is a socialist-communist dystopia?


It isn't?


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## 213979 (Apr 11, 2013)

iamnotmad said:


> That's the point I'm trying to make. If I make 120k per year, after taxes if I keep half, plus rent and other expenses (without splurging), I should be ok from what everyone is saying.


More than ok.

Even with your rent, kids' tuition, and taxes taken out, the amount left over is probably still more than my husband and I make in a year. We don't have to stick to a strict budget either.


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## iamnotmad (May 21, 2015)

elenetxu said:


> It isn't?


Yes..I am coming for the communism


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Lynn R said:


> Do you know what they'd have to pay to rent a property in a good area of a large US city, or how much they'd need to pay in health insurance premiums and co-payments for a family of 4, even if they had coverage in an employer's scheme? Maybe a salary of €120K would not seem so much, look at the insane amounts some people get paid in London (and the insane house prices to match).


€120k at current exchange rates is around £80-£90k, isn't It? Not megabucks for a big city for a middle- class professional family of four, after deductions. 
Liveable, yes of course and comfortably so but not 'luxury'.
Yes, I know, most people get by on much less. It comes down to aspiration and expectation.


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## Sirtravelot (Jul 20, 2011)

elenetxu said:


> It isn't?


I will bring vodka. You and me talk of glorious Communism country Europe. Talk of glorious leader Putin saving country from capitalist pig America.


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## Chopera (Apr 22, 2013)

iamnotmad said:


> They are in elementary school now in the US. I found privte schools, same rates as the US it seems.


We had another thread on the subject of schools in Barcelona a few months ago. The things you need to weigh up include the curriculum you want your kids to follow (Spanish? IB? US?) and the language you want them to be taught in (Catalan would be good for the long term, and for integrating with the locals, but if you plan on returning to the US in a few years then Castillian Spanish might be preferable)


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## Horlics (Sep 27, 2011)

Lynn R said:


> This forum is a funny old place at times. People get stick for wanting to move here with no jobs or with the prospect of only being able to find low paid work at best. Then someone comes along who has been offered a well paid job and he gets stick too, with people making all kinds of disparaging remarks. Is there some proscribed income range that everyone must fall into (not too poor, not too affluent) to avoid bringing wrath down upon their heads?


Ain't it just Lynn. The remarks say nothing useful to the Op, but say an awful lot about the people posting them.

Op, I think the most (only) useful advice you've had has been the links the the tax information and other sites. All I can add is a suggestion about trying to find out what the standard relocation packages for you industry and/or this company are.

I've benefited from relocation packages from 2 different companies in the past and with both there was a lot to be had but only if asked for, it was a case of individuals knowing what was possible rather than being handed a definitive list.

I don't know how relevant this is to you because it may be a case of your industry or this company offering standard and fixed terms which are not negotiated. I therefore won't go into details but feel free to PM me if you want a list of the things I've managed to get included in relocation deals.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Horlics said:


> Ain't it just Lynn. The remarks say nothing useful to the Op, but say an awful lot about the people posting them.


Note to self.
Keep well away from any threads that Horlics starts!


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## Isobella (Oct 16, 2014)

When we moved to Singapore OH was given a relocation package well before we left. It contained allowances for school fees, health package, rent etc. there was car loan too. They provided a rental property whilst we looked around. Many details of country, customs. Places to eat, even where to worship perhaps Spain does it differently but I would have thought at that salary level in Spain it would have to be quite a high Profile position.


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## Horlics (Sep 27, 2011)

Isobella said:


> Perhaps Spain does it differently but I would have thought at that salary level in Spain it would have to be quite a high Profile position.


I hate to pee on the Spain-is-a-third-world-country-paying-third-world-wages parade... but I looked today for jobs in IT and found 30+ posted in the last week paying 120k Euros a year.


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## Isobella (Oct 16, 2014)

Horlics said:


> I hate to pee on the Spain-is-a-third-world-country-paying-third-world-wages parade... but I looked today for jobs in IT and found 30+ posted in the last week paying 120k Euros a year.


Well it is a fact that Spain is one of the lowest waged and highest taxed in Europe, it was in the news this week. Although I did not say the jobs don't exist, just that the employees on that salary would be considered valuable enough to be offered a relocation package. I read on here that many of those jobs advertised don't exist they are just a reel in.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Isobella said:


> Well it is a fact that Spain is one of the lowest waged and highest taxed in Europe, it was in the news this week. Although I did not say the jobs don't exist, just that the employees on that salary would be considered valuable enough to be offered a relocation package. I read on here that many of those jobs advertised don't exist they are just a reel in.


Could the OP post the name of the company he has found work in?
It would be very useful to be able to pass on the name of a good company to those who post looking for IT work. Up until now the hopefuls have been told to look either in Gib or Madrid and to expect a drop in salary.


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## Horlics (Sep 27, 2011)

Isobella said:


> Well it is a fact that Spain is one of the lowest waged and highest taxed in Europe, it was in the news this week. Although I did not say the jobs don't exist, just that the employees on that salary would be considered valuable enough to be offered a relocation package. I read on here that many of those jobs advertised don't exist they are just a reel in.


Agencies do sometimes advertise posts that don't exist but these days they usually make it clear that's the case, and that they are looking for potential candidates in advance. But they only do that when the jobs do come up fairly frequently so that they're ready when they do.

Agencies are not in the business of reeling dozens or hundreds of people in for jobs that never come along. What would be the point in that!

Ah the jobs i am mentioning... they exist. I used to work for the parent company of the company that's now offering them, and I still have plenty of contacts in there with whom I'm in regular contact.

And yes, Spain does have a massive problem with unemployment and a lot of low paid work, but acknowledging that there are reasonably paid professional jobs is not denying that fact.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Horlics said:


> I hate to pee on the Spain-is-a-third-world-country-paying-third-world-wages parade... but I looked today for jobs in IT and found 30+ posted in the last week paying 120k Euros a year.


Let's put this in context. Yes, of course there are jobs paying that and more. I know because my son works in that market in the City. He toys with the idea of working outside the UK.
And yes, there are jobs in hairdressing, bricklaying, plumbing....because people change jobs, retire, get sick, die....
But there aren't seven million jobs for the seven million people seeking work and the wages for most occupations in Spain are much lower than their equivalents in some other parts of Europe.
Of course there are jobs in Spain for highly paid highly skilled and highly qualified professionals. As you say, you've found thirty...... But then such jobs aren't usually discussed on this Forum because people who work in that area tend not to come on Forums like this to ask for help. It's quite unusual when they do and interesting that those who do ask advice are usually from countries outside Europe.

As for the 'third=world country' parade.....I think that when unwrapped merely means folk who have worked and lived here for many years just telling it like it is from first-hand knowledge and experience. I'm happy to hear one person is coming with a job. I'd be peeing my pants with joy if the unemployment rate in our town dropped by a quarter even.
But I'm not shopping for incontinence pads.


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## toddamparo (May 17, 2015)

To even think of making a hundred twenty thousand euros a year in Spain is beyond belief. My in laws in Valencia live on less than a thousand euros per month


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## toddamparo (May 17, 2015)

I'm not even sure that a physician is paid that much.


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## Horlics (Sep 27, 2011)

Well the Op is going to be paid 120k so it does happen folks. Believe it. When you see a post saying the a job offer for that amount is being made, why would you think it is beyond belief!


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## toddamparo (May 17, 2015)

Horlics said:


> Well the Op is going to be paid 120k so it does happen folks. Believe it. When you see a post saying the a job offer for that amount is being made, why would you think it is beyond belief!


I didn't say I doubted him. I just said that is beyond belief as an expression of surprise and amazement. maybe my American lingo is getting in the way haha


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## toddamparo (May 17, 2015)

Great to hear the story of another American making the jump to live in Spain. I'll be interested to follow your journey as you come over and make a go of it. At thst sort of wage there should be absolutely no problem making a life for yourself in Spain.


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## Horlics (Sep 27, 2011)

Speaking of work, I did a very brief (just how i like it - work can interfere if you let it) bit of consulting with Land Rover last week. Shocking news folks, taken from their annual report a glossy copy of which was left on a desk......

In Europe, there emerged the first signs of recovery
after recession. Following several quarters of
contraction, GDP in the Eurozone bottomed out and
started to pick up. Led by Germany, consumer and
business confidence began to return, industrial activity
started to recover, and the deterioration in labour market
conditions came to a halt. Admittedly, there is still a
long way to go: deflation risks remain, the sovereign
and banking crisis is not fully resolved, and there is
a considerable gulf in performance between the core
and the periphery. Nonetheless, the automotive market
is making a nascent recovery. In Germany, Jaguar
Land Rover sales grew 6.5%, against 0.2% for total
passenger cars. In Italy, Jaguar Land Rover sales
edged up 1.1%, driven by Land Rover, against a total
market contraction of 1.6%. Although in France sales fell
across the board. The most encouraging performance
came from Spain where, after three years of doubledigit
contraction, the market rebounded by 11.7%,
and Jaguar Land Rover sales rose 14.7%


And to drive a Land Rover, you have to be on 120k Euros a year, they're a bit pricey!


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Yes, I know a Spaniard who's earning that kind of money, probably more.
He's working in Saudi Arabia.
His two sons and his wife live here. He gets to see them maybe 6 weeks a year.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Horlics said:


> Speaking of work, I did a very brief (just how i like it - work can interfere if you let it) bit of consulting with Land Rover last week. Shocking news folks, taken from their annual report a glossy copy of which was left on a desk......
> 
> In Europe, there emerged the first signs of recovery
> after recession. Following several quarters of
> ...


I have two LandRovers, a Freelander and a Discovery so I obviously must be earning 240k euros a year.. I've just asked the chauffeur to clean and polish them...We like LRs , have had a LR or RR for as long as I can remember...which does not make us rich.

Look, we all know that people earning top salaries are doing OK and can afford LandRovers, Jaguars, holidays in the Caribbean and so on. WE also know that Europe's economies are on the whole showing signs of growth, albeit weak ones. But where's the trickle-down beloved of Thatcherites???

But what has this got to do with countries like Spain, Greece, Portugal, where unemployment remains high and wages low? Or the UK where in spite of signs of slight growth, productivity is falling and wages are stagnating? 

If you look at the economies of Europe as a whole and not just at the earnings of the top decile, then yes, the outlook is truly shocking. Prospects for most working people are of low paid insecure jobs with cuts in the public services that so many people have to rely on. You should look at the whole picture not just a corner of it.

The fact that you and I may be comparatively well-off or that we may have in our families or friends high earners has very little to do with the plight of the majority. To focus on the few and ignore the many smacks of an 'I'm alright Jack' attitude that I hope I would never succumb too, if I were a multi-millionaire.

So I'm pleased that the OP has a job with a good salary. I'm pleased that LandRover and Jaguar are increasing sales. My family likes those brands and is lucky enough to be able to run them. I'm pleased for anyone who has a job, more pleased if it comes with good pay and conditions.
But the fact that the few at the top are doing OK whilst the majority are not and that even for many in work life is no picnic doesn't thrill me. I'll be happy when everyone can afford a LandRover.


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## Chopera (Apr 22, 2013)

Isobella said:


> When we moved to Singapore OH was given a relocation package well before we left. It contained allowances for school fees, health package, rent etc. there was car loan too. They provided a rental property whilst we looked around. Many details of country, customs. Places to eat, even where to worship perhaps Spain does it differently but I would have thought at that salary level in Spain it would have to be quite a high Profile position.


Most people I know who were transfered over to Spain got quite a generous relocation package that included having their accommodation, car, school fees and other expenses paid for. In fact one person commented that their monthly expenses came to more than their salary.

Atthough most of these people had their contracts terminated during the crisis as their companies cut costs.

If you are being relocated to Spain without these types of expense paid for then €120k is certainly not excessive.


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## Isobella (Oct 16, 2014)

Yes I wasn't saying well paid jobs don't exist, in any country. I was just saying that usually in that salary range they have a good relocation package and support to attract the brightest from overseas.

Interesting about salaries dropping. My nephew is fairly high up in the Civil Service. He was complaining a few weeks ago that there were no pay rises, his last one was 1% for two years. During that time train fares have risen and his pension payments gone up. His Union has calculated that it is. 12% cut in real terms.


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

Isobella said:


> Yes I wasn't saying well paid jobs don't exist, in any country. I was just saying that usually in that salary range they have a good relocation package and support to attract the brightest from overseas.
> 
> Interesting about salaries dropping. My nephew is fairly high up in the Civil Service. He was complaining a few weeks ago that there were no pay rises, his last one was 1% for two years. During that time train fares have risen and his pension payments gone up. His Union has calculated that it is. 12% cut in real terms.


I see the Cabinet Ministers are none too pleased that David Cameron has announced that ministerial salaries are to be frozen (although the portion of their salary they get for being an MP will go up by 11% (yes, 11) if the IPSA recommendation is accepted. The poor things are moaning that it's impossible to keep up two homes, one of them in London, on their miserly stipend - although surely most of those costs are met by their expenses anyway. If the rest of the public sector has had to endure years of pay freezes followed by minimal rises, when as you say living costs are rising, then I see no reason why MPs or Ministers should be treated any differently.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Isobella said:


> Yes I wasn't saying well paid jobs don't exist, in any country. I was just saying that usually in that salary range they have a good relocation package and support to attract the brightest from overseas.
> 
> Interesting about salaries dropping. My nephew is fairly high up in the Civil Service. He was complaining a few weeks ago that there were no pay rises, his last one was 1% for two years. During that time train fares have risen and his pension payments gone up. His Union has calculated that it is. 12% cut in real terms.


Which is the point I'm making. For most working people life has not got better, no matter what growth in the economy or how many LandRovers are sold.

Once you get to a certain salary level, say £100k onwards, in any profession you are rarely out of work, in fact you don't look for jobs, jobs often come to you. Just as in Spain, it's who you know that counts in the UK. We call it networking, Spaniards call it enchufismo.


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## 213979 (Apr 11, 2013)

Horlics said:


> Speaking of work, I did a very brief (just how i like it - work can interfere if you let it) bit of consulting with Land Rover last week. Shocking news folks, taken from their annual report a glossy copy of which was left on a desk......
> 
> In Europe, there emerged the first signs of recovery
> after recession. Following several quarters of
> ...


Throughout the crisis, they have said that the luxury market is the one sector that has not been affected to the same extent as other markets.


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## 213979 (Apr 11, 2013)

Isobella said:


> Yes I wasn't saying well paid jobs don't exist, in any country. I was just saying that usually in that salary range they have a good relocation package and support to attract the brightest from overseas.
> 
> Interesting about salaries dropping. My nephew is fairly high up in the Civil Service. He was complaining a few weeks ago that there were no pay rises, his last one was 1% for two years. During that time train fares have risen and his pension payments gone up. His Union has calculated that it is. 12% cut in real terms.


Due to taxes, my husband earns just 75€ more than I did as a "becaría" working for the government during six months a year. He's a primary school teacher who is "lucky" enough to have received a part time full-year substitution.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

elenetxu said:


> Throughout the crisis, they have said that the luxury market is the one sector that has not been affected to the same extent as other markets.


For the very simple and clear reason that whilst the earned incomes of over 90% of the working population have fallen or stagnated, those at the top of the scale, whether benefiting from earned or invested income, have massively increased their wealth.

The fact that thirty, fifty, a hundred or a thousand well-paid IT jobs are on offer in Barcelona, Madrid or some other big city means diddly squat to the 60% of unemployed and often unskilled young people in my barrio.


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## Horlics (Sep 27, 2011)

elenetxu said:


> Throughout the crisis, they have said that the luxury market is the one sector that has not been affected to the same extent as other markets.


If you read the extract you'll see that Land Rover was affected.


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## 213979 (Apr 11, 2013)

Horlics said:


> If you read the extract you'll see that Land Rover was affected.


I _did_ read the extract. The fact that Land Rover was affected does not take away from the fact that, in general, the luxury market has grown throughout the crisis: https://es.finance.yahoo.com/blogs/...s-productos-lujo-son-ajenos-la-133734032.html

Is Land Rover considered a luxury brand in Spain? The average Land Rover driver I see in this area (Santander-Bilbao) is a farmer. Those who are interested in a true luxury vehicle seem to purchase more Mercedes or Audis. For this reason, I'd venture a guess that LR saw took a hit during the crisis.


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## Pazcat (Mar 24, 2010)

They have to be a status car to an extent at their cost and reliability, there is no reason otherwise to get one as far as I can tell. Although they do seem to have come down a bit in price over the years depending on the model. They do look pretty good so I can understand buying one on looks alone if that's what is important.

The best 4wDs on the market and the real workhorses come from Japan.


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## iamnotmad (May 21, 2015)

Pazcat said:


> They have to be a status car to an extent at their cost and reliability, there is no reason otherwise to get one as far as I can tell. Although they do seem to have come down a bit in price over the years depending on the model. They do look pretty good so I can understand buying one on looks alone if that's what is important.
> 
> The best 4wDs on the market and the real workhorses come from Japan.


Yeah..I'm a fan and owner of Acura and Lexus myself. German and other "luxury" brands aren't what they used to be. Their new business model is to get you in the dealership every couple of months for "maintenance". When I had my Audi...every other month something was wrong with that car...new


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## GUAPACHICA (Jun 30, 2012)

Pazcat said:


> They have to be a status car to an extent at their cost and reliability, there is no reason otherwise to get one as far as I can tell. Although they do seem to have come down a bit in price over the years depending on the model. They do look pretty good so I can understand buying one on looks alone if that's what is important.
> 
> The best 4wDs on the market and the real workhorses come from Japan.


Hi - I was fortunate enough to live in the Dartmoor National Park ( England) for several years, whilst employed by a local Community college, prior to relocating to Spain. The 'Landrover' was ubiquitous across the moor, with the majority of upland hill farmers relying on their ancient, green 'work horses' to take them from single- track lanes ( tourists in camper - vans were the most hazardous obstacles on the road..)right across boggy moorland, interspersed with hillocks and granite boulders, to their livestock grazing up on the high moor, often in drenching rain or snow and ice! 

Those 'Landy's' were impervious to rusted metal posts, barbed wire netting and old bed springs, all of which were likely to be encountered, dumped by idiots and strewn across the landscape. The vehicles towed every possible variety of farmyard trailer, filled with sheep, goats, straw- hay bales - and, even, whole tree - trunks attached, horizontally, to chains, as and when required. There would always be a brace of Border collies and at least one Jack Russell terrier with their heads out through the side windows, alert and eager to assist with the swift removal of any stray heifer or flock of sheep from the roadside! 

I can't recall any of those Landrovers being younger than about 15 years, whilst several were well over 20, despite the gruelling nature of their work and the seemingly cavalier attitudes of their owners to the bumps and scrapes arising from close encounters with 'granite hedges' and recalcitrant cattle! 

Dartmoor farmers were notorious for being the ultimate 'recyclers' and their aged green Landrovers bore testimony to their having chosen their vehicles wisely, in accordance with their collective philosophy of 'Waste not - want not!'

Personally, I became a huge fan of the 'Landy', although, very sadly, my own budget would stretch only to my purchase of a Suzuki Jeep... but, then, as a mere 'grockle', I was bound by the Dartmoor bye - law which forbade me to drive onto the open moorland, so that particular vehicle suited me very well, in all weathers, on the lanes and paths around the National Park. It was already 18 years old when I drove it onto the Plymouth - Santander ferry, with trailer attached, for my relocation to Spain! 

BTW - there were regular sightings of bright red and even gold Range- rovers, often found parked - up alongside picnic tables, complete with decanters and tartan rugs - but those vehicles were driven by 'hobby- hunters' - the ones who would turn up at weekends, eager to find vantage points from which to observe the Dartmoor Fox- hunt packs in action ( prior to the 'sport' being outlawed!), whilst not wishing to exert themselves physically, in any way - or to suffer an iota of personal discomfort..needless to say, such gaudy vehicles and their owners were held in deep contempt by Dartmoor residents and farmers, alike, LOL! 

Saludos,
GC.


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## Horlics (Sep 27, 2011)

elenetxu said:


> I _did_ read the extract. The fact that Land Rover was affected does not take away from the fact that, in general, the luxury market has grown throughout the crisis: https://es.finance.yahoo.com/blogs/...s-productos-lujo-son-ajenos-la-133734032.html
> 
> Is Land Rover considered a luxury brand in Spain? The average Land Rover driver I see in this area (Santander-Bilbao) is a farmer. Those who are interested in a true luxury vehicle seem to purchase more Mercedes or Audis. For this reason, I'd venture a guess that LR saw took a hit during the crisis.


Forget the old greenish workhorses, look at a Range Rover Sport. These things starts at 60,000 UKP. It's a luxury brand these days. Go to Dubai and Abu Dhabi and have a look what the rich Arabs spend their money on. Yes, Mercs are there (and a few Audis) but Range Rover Sport and Evoques, none of which you can get for anything like what are affordable prices for people on average wages, which makes it luxury.

Here's a page from their site: http://www.jaguarlandrover.com/gl/e...r-land-rover-reports-april-sales-performance/

And here is the first sentence in the first paragraph:

Jaguar Land Rover, the UK's leading manufacturer of premium luxury vehicles delivered record April sales, retailing 37,286 vehicles. 

Premium luxury vehicles.


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## Horlics (Sep 27, 2011)

Anyway, without getting into an analysis of the car market, all I am saying is that here we have a person moving to Spain on 120k a year. And I am seeing plenty of jobs being offered, some on good money and some not so good (relative to the industry, still pretty good to some people). And then I happened across a company's annual report for last year which shows that after some dreadful years there is improvement, and that the biggest upturn is in Spain (albeit from a very low level).

But instead of a nod that this is a bit positive, we get:

Disparaging remarks to the person with the 120k offer

The suggestion that the jobs I have seen advertised don't actually exist (they absolutely do)

And in response to Jaguar Land Rover's report showing in Spain double digit growth after 3 years of double digit contraction, and while France is still a totally dead market for them, well, just a load of rubbish.

Your glasses of G&T are well and truly half empty.


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## 213979 (Apr 11, 2013)

Horlics said:


> Forget the old greenish workhorses, look at a Range Rover Sport. These things starts at 60,000 UKP. It's a luxury brand these days. Go to Dubai and Abu Dhabi and have a look what the rich Arabs spend their money on. Yes, Mercs are there (and a few Audis) but Range Rover Sport and Evoques, none of which you can get for anything like what are affordable prices for people on average wages, which makes it luxury.
> 
> Here's a page from their site: JAGUAR LAND ROVER REPORTS APRIL SALES PERFORMANCE | Jaguar Land Rover Corporate Website
> 
> ...


Yes, I realize that a number of their models are considered "premium luxury vehicles". It's quite similar back in the US. However, my observation has been that in the north of *Spain,* Land Rovers are not necessarily the first choice of the luxury buyer. The German luxury brands seem to have the hegemony over the market here. 

Given that we were discussing the luxury market in Spain and you cited the fact that LR had seen a rise in sales here after a three-year drop, what I was trying to get at is that in *Spain,* (again, from my observations based on the Bilbao-Santander area) I'm not so sure that the average client looking for a luxury vehicle is going for a Land Rover, thus explaining the major drop the company saw during the crisis (while other "luxury" brands rose).


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## 213979 (Apr 11, 2013)

We're way the heck off topic. I'm suprised the mods haven't sauntered in with the whips yet  

OP- You're going to get by with no problem on 120K a year.


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## toddamparo (May 17, 2015)

Yes back to the original posters question and that is would his salary of a hundred twenty thousand euros a year be taxed so as to reduce it substantially below what he would be expecting.


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