# House level?



## Johnny B (May 27, 2013)

Hi all. Just looking for some home building info... I am considering building a house in a province in Bohol, local builders will be used, no contract with, "professionals". My question is this, the top concrete beam that would be directly below the roof and directly above the hollow brick walls, do the builders make sure this is perfectly level? I ask because every single wall I have looked at, the brick work is clearly not level...

Thanks in advance!


----------



## M.C.A. (Feb 24, 2013)

*Block home building*



Johnny B said:


> Hi all. Just looking for some home building info... I am considering building a house in a province in Bohol, local builders will be used, no contract with, "professionals". My question is this, the top concrete beam that would be directly below the roof and directly above the hollow brick walls, do the builders make sure this is perfectly level? I ask because every single wall I have looked at, the brick work is clearly not level...
> 
> Thanks in advance!


The problems occur when you don't do it all at once or pour the concrete roof or second floor, so the top has to be done all at once for a level flooring and this includes the upper support beams. Lessons learned with our second floor, it's not level and my neighbor who hired 20 guys to finish his second floor just last week in one day he also made sure the bottom was heavily fortified with wooden beams, the poured area was completely wired it took them a couple week s to bend and shape into place the bars, also the foundation for the verticle beams are deep, more than I thought after watching this building go up.


----------



## fmartin_gila (May 15, 2011)

All I have seen used is the rudimentary 'hose with water' level. My house is not level and it was constructed by a "professional" building company.

Fred


----------



## M.C.A. (Feb 24, 2013)

fmartin_gila said:


> All I have seen used is the rudimentary 'hose with water' level. My house is not level and it was constructed by a "professional" building company.
> 
> Fred


I ended up buying my own levels for the workers because one of the walls was a little off and it cost me to fix this so after that I made sure that levels were available.


----------



## Johnny B (May 27, 2013)

I guess they don't take into consideration the part in between the two water level points... Thank you


----------



## fmartin_gila (May 15, 2011)

It also appears that the use of a square is nil. After the perfectly square floor tiles are installed, one can see the walls running at angles.

Fred


----------



## Johnny B (May 27, 2013)

I know almost zero about construction but am finding YouTube invaluable, great for keeping the builders "straight"...


----------



## Gary D (Oct 28, 2013)

Johnny B said:


> I guess they don't take into consideration the part in between the two water level points... Thank you


There is nothing in between the two water levels to take into considderation. The two levels will be the same, over a distance using a water level is far supperior, second only to a laser. Trying to do 20-30 feet with a spirit level you can be all over the place.


----------



## Manitoba (Jun 25, 2014)

Why are you spending all this money without having a "professional" make sure you are getting good value for your money?

Would you do "DYI" dentistry?
Would you act as your own lawyer?
Would you take out your own appendix?


Why does someone whose knowledge of construction consist of having walked past a couple of construction sites consider themselves experts in the field?

Get someone who knows what they are doing, you will save money and get a better finished product in the long run.

When your roof stays on in the next typhoon or your walls stay standing in the next earthquake you will thank me for this advice.


----------



## hogrider (May 25, 2010)

Johnny B said:


> I know almost zero about construction but am finding YouTube invaluable, great for keeping the builders "straight"...


You're not the only one......


----------



## hogrider (May 25, 2010)

Gary D said:


> There is nothing in between the two water levels to take into considderation. The two levels will be the same, over a distance using a water level is far supperior, second only to a laser. Trying to do 20-30 feet with a spirit level you can be all over the place.


Never seen a 20ft spirit level


----------



## Gary D (Oct 28, 2013)

hogrider said:


> Never seen a 20ft spirit level


Exactly, that's the problem, the longest I've seen is 2 metres. So you end up trying to find a straight piece of board and knock posts in across the site. No way are you going to get it as accurate as a water level.


----------



## Manitoba (Jun 25, 2014)

A laser level is now normally used on construction to get the most best level possible over a long distance. It is s simple device that is set up on a tripod and the laser points straight up, a rotating mirror sends the beam out in a level pattern and a target can read when the laser is hitting it thus establishing the level.

That said, the long hose was common a quarter century ago and will usually do a good enough job as long as it is used correctly, don't let any water out, don't pinch the end when taking a reading and reconfirm that the other end is still in place before trusting the new reading. It is a good cheap low tech solution and will suffice for most residental buildings


----------



## Gary D (Oct 28, 2013)

Manitoba said:


> A laser level is now normally used on construction to get the most best level possible over a long distance. It is s simple device that is set up on a tripod and the laser points straight up, a rotating mirror sends the beam out in a level pattern and a target can read when the laser is hitting it thus establishing the level.
> 
> That said, the long hose was common a quarter century ago and will usually do a good enough job as long as it is used correctly, don't let any water out, don't pinch the end when taking a reading and reconfirm that the other end is still in place before trusting the new reading. It is a good cheap low tech solution and will suffice for most residental buildings


Yes laser levels are widely used here in the UK but take one to the Philippines and the local builder will look at you as if you have just landed from Mars. Also lasers only work line of sight. A water level will work in the next room.


----------



## Zep (Jun 8, 2017)

Speaking of lasers. When I first arrived here 3 years ago all the kids in the neighborhood were playing with these laser pointers like you use to give a presentation. We are talking 3 year olds and up.

I explained to my wife that these things can blind you if looked at and that they are not for kids to play with. She handled the situation and I have not seen one since. Crazy that this stuff is sold to children.


----------



## Johnny B (May 27, 2013)

Manitoba said:


> Why are you spending all this money without having a "professional" make sure you are getting good value for your money?
> 
> Would you do "DYI" dentistry?
> Would you act as your own lawyer?
> ...


Perhaps financial constraints.


----------



## Manitoba (Jun 25, 2014)

Johnny B said:


> Perhaps financial constraints.


You are saying if you don't have the cash pull your own tooth, take out your own appendix?

Good construction is expensive. The only thing more expensive than good construction is poor construction, then you spend the money building poorly, pay to take it down and then pay for good construction to replace it.


Build quality and if you cannot afford a large well built one, get a smaller well built one designed to be expanded when you can afford it.

I have never experienced it but I would believe that having a wall fall on you in an earthquake would hurt and perhaps leave a mark.


----------



## Manitoba (Jun 25, 2014)

Gary D said:


> Yes laser levels are widely used here in the UK but take one to the Philippines and the local builder will look at you as if you have just landed from Mars. Also lasers only work line of sight. A water level will work in the next room.


True about line of sight but I have seen workers carrying them into commercial sites here. They were slower to catch on in residential construction in Canada as well.

For most residential construction a water line is sufficient accuracy and easy to use and understand. Just have to be careful using them, like any other tool.


----------



## Rebaqshratz (May 15, 2016)

My house is level but I had professional whose earlier work was available to see and critique. Pepe Era (Dasmarinas area) has been building local since he returned from the middle east 20 years ago where he was a builder. Just dumb ass luck on my part. The cement floor was roughed in and then made perfect when they adjusted the level of the tile. I recently built a large shop next to the house and because it is a working space used no tile and had them level the floor as best as might be possible considering it was all hand work. I am happy as clam with the painted cement floor knowing that it will take a beating with metal work and welding by me.


----------



## Manitoba (Jun 25, 2014)

To get a nice finished concrete floor you can use a leveling coat. This is a special cement mixture that will flow and level itself very nicely. Add in a trowel in coloured hardener and you can have a very nice workshop floor.

I have used this solution in RCAF aircraft hangers where dust and debris control is important as is a smooth surface for moving jet fighters around


----------



## Gary D (Oct 28, 2013)

Manitoba said:


> To get a nice finished concrete floor you can use a leveling coat. This is a special cement mixture that will flow and level itself very nicely. Add in a trowel in coloured hardener and you can have a very nice workshop floor.
> 
> I have used this solution in RCAF aircraft hangers where dust and debris control is important as is a smooth surface for moving jet fighters around


Yes we all do this in the west but in the Philippines they are 50 years behind us. Neither the skilled labour or materials are available, especailly outside the large cities.


----------



## Manitoba (Jun 25, 2014)

You might have some trouble finding the products you need, but it is a low skill process, A small batch mixer and a steel trowel is all that is needed. Anyone who can do a decent finish on concrete floors can do this.

I look as some of the high-rises under construction here in Makati and as a knowledgeable passer by everything looks like the work is being done well and is well planned. 

I am impressed by the concrete finish after they take the forms off. 

Not much wrong with the quality of construction people at least on high rises in Makati and surrounding areas. I know rural areas and residential construction is always a different ball game, it is the same everywhere in the world I have worked and that includes North America, Europe and Asia.


----------



## pigeonpete (Jan 19, 2014)

Johnny B said:


> Hi all. Just looking for some home building info... I am considering building a house in a province in Bohol, local builders will be used, no contract with, "professionals". My question is this, the top concrete beam that would be directly below the roof and directly above the hollow brick walls, do the builders make sure this is perfectly level? I ask because every single wall I have looked at, the brick work is clearly not level...
> 
> Thanks in advance!


The builder should make all his work level and plumb . If you do not have experence in the building industry and rely on others to build your house it will be a very trying experience. I am building a house in cebu province and although I have been a bricklayer and worked in many countries with a good understanding of how construction should be done I found I had to be constantly watching my men. If I had not been there the work would have taken twice as long to complete. My foreman was good and his team good also but not up to the standards that a westoner would like without supervision.Good Luck you will need it.


----------



## Johnny B (May 27, 2013)

pigeonpete said:


> The builder should make all his work level and plumb . If you do not have experence in the building industry and rely on others to build your house it will be a very trying experience. I am building a house in cebu province and although I have been a bricklayer and worked in many countries with a good understanding of how construction should be done I found I had to be constantly watching my men. If I had not been there the work would have taken twice as long to complete. My foreman was good and his team good also but not up to the standards that a westoner would like without supervision.Good Luck you will need it.



Thank you. I figure if it is kept a simple sturdy build, it should withstand whatever mother nature throws at it... My mother in laws home would have been built using the cheapest of the cheap materials and looks like it was built by a totally drunk village idiot and that is still standing after several natural disasters... and strangely looks straight too....


----------



## Gary D (Oct 28, 2013)

Johnny B said:


> Thank you. I figure if it is kept a simple sturdy build, it should withstand whatever mother nature throws at it... My mother in laws home would have been built using the cheapest of the cheap materials and looks like it was built by a totally drunk village idiot and that is still standing after several natural disasters... and strangely looks straight too....


That's pretty much what we did. We used 5" hollow blocks instead of 4" and the heavier grade of tin on the roof etc, UK wiring. The main weakness has been the Philippines plumbing. The house is still good after 18 years.


----------



## Manitoba (Jun 25, 2014)

Gary D said:


> ....The main weakness has been the Philippines plumbing. ....


I had a discussion with a local plumber once. He could not even understand the concept let alone the advantages of having vented drains.

They also undersize the waste lines and hot water to any tap except the shower, maybe, is unheard of.


----------



## Gary D (Oct 28, 2013)

Manitoba said:


> I had a discussion with a local plumber once. He could not even understand the concept let alone the advantages of having vented drains.
> 
> They also undersize the waste lines and hot water to any tap except the shower, maybe, is unheard of.


Apart from being clueless it's the quality, or lack of, of the fittings that lets it down.


----------



## Johnny B (May 27, 2013)

Gary D said:


> That's pretty much what we did. We used 5" hollow blocks instead of 4" and the heavier grade of tin on the roof etc, UK wiring. The main weakness has been the Philippines plumbing. The house is still good after 18 years.


Just curious, why 5" instead of 4"? I would guess stability...


----------



## Manitoba (Jun 25, 2014)

Gary D said:


> Apart from being clueless it's the quality, or lack of, of the fittings that lets it down.


I have always thought that you can buy anything you want here except quality. It is really hard to find anything in top quality, usually just the cheapest made products you can imagine.


----------



## Gary D (Oct 28, 2013)

Johnny B said:


> Just curious, why 5" instead of 4"? I would guess stability...


A bit better sound and heat insulation.


----------



## Johnny B (May 27, 2013)

Gary D said:


> A bit better sound and heat insulation.


I would need 10 inch blocks then for sound proofing considering certain people seem to forget that some people are asleep at 5 am when they are screaming for someone's attention


----------



## Gary D (Oct 28, 2013)

Johnny B said:


> I would need 10 inch blocks then for sound proofing considering certain people seem to forget that some people are asleep at 5 am when they are screaming for someone's attention


What does help a lot is sliding windows with built-in fly screens rather than jalousies and ceilings.


----------



## Manitoba (Jun 25, 2014)

Johnny B said:


> I would need 10 inch blocks then for sound proofing considering certain people seem to forget that some people are asleep at 5 am when they are screaming for someone's attention


To get sound proofing you need mass and/or breaks in the sound transmission paths. Just going to a one inch larger block will not do much.

Fill every block core with concrete full height will help but will also make it more dangerous in an earthquake. (A bunch of individual blocks will not hurt as much as a solid slab wall falling on your head because some of the blocks will miss.)

Best soundproofing using blocks would be a double wythe wall. Two layers of block or more common block on the inside and brick on the outside with only thin metal ties between the block and the brick. This will leave a space 50 to 100 mm thick that can be insulated. 

Then as also mentioned use good quality windows and doors, preferably double glazed with acoustical breaks in the frame. Install them with adequate caulking and seals to close off any and all openings for sound transmission.

The roof will take some special precautions to install it adequately with proper structural and acoustic properties.

Bonus of soundproofing is it also will provide a good thermal performance. Just don't screw up on the locations of the vapour barrier and don't mistake the vapour barrier for the air barrier they serve two different functions.


----------



## Rebaqshratz (May 15, 2016)

Recently saw a new construction here where the blocks interlocked. I much smoother end game. Required much less work to smooth the irregular blocks that are more typical. I am sure they cost more but was advised by the engineer on the job 6 or 7 times as strong as the typical block used in this country. They still used the "post and beam" structure but a much prettier job with much less labor at least by the "eye test"...


----------



## Manitoba (Jun 25, 2014)

That is called running bond, it is the norm in North America.


----------

