# Need advice, trying to get spouse into the UK



## webbynz (Jan 23, 2015)

Hi,

Hoping for a bit of advice here on my wife's situation.

My wife and I, along with our son have been living in the UK for the past circa 5 years. My wife was originally on Youth Mobility visa, then got a spouse visa in 2012.

My wife and British born son (6 months old) are in NZ now as we were holidaying there and I had to come back for work

I am a British citizen (born in NZ)

She recently got declined a spouse visa due to not meeting financial requirement (I am her sponsor and the application was declined because I only pay tax on £7k even though I earn more than the required threshold)

I am back in our house in the UK

My wife overlooked her visa expiry (pregnancy/new house etc) and overstayed by 4 months (exited UK on Dec 2014) 

I want my son and her back with me ASAP, and I have been advised that her best course of action is for her to just arrive at the terminal with the baby

My advice is that at the worst she will be given temporary admission and that there will be many more options for us in-country to sort her issues if the spouse route doesn't work out

Do you agree with this? Would they let her in to allow us to sort our finances out and re-apply for spouse visa? I want to know if she could be removed and what is the likely scenario that might play out. What can we do to ensure the best outcome?

We have no intention of overstaying and will leave if we cannot sort the issue.


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## Water Dragon (Jun 28, 2011)

webbynz said:


> Hi,
> 
> Hoping for a bit of advice here on my wife's situation.
> 
> ...


Having your wife and baby "just arrive at the terminal" will not only be an extremely stressful experience for them, you will waste the cost of airfare and put an extremely negative entry on her immigration record. I have not heard of anyone being allowed into the UK without proper visa arrangements. It is much more likely that she will be detained, interviewed and then sent back immediately. 

Your best outcome is to follow the rules and determine how best to obtain her spouse visa. You will find answers to your questions here and feel free to ask as much as you need to.


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## webbynz (Jan 23, 2015)

i'm looking for help here, not a lesson. i have tried every avenue i can think of to get them here ASAP - i don't know what else to do.


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## nyclon (Apr 3, 2011)

Really bad idea. With an overstay and a refused visa she will more than likely be refused entry. If she was allowed entry it would be on a tourist visa and you cannot switch from a tourist visa to any other kind of visa. She has no option but to apply for a new spouse visa from NZ. She should stay in NZ while you sort out your financial situation.


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## webbynz (Jan 23, 2015)

with a 6 month old British child? i find it hard to believe they would remove her based on our circumstances.

a tourist visa would be sufficient.


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## Water Dragon (Jun 28, 2011)

webbynz said:


> with a 6 month old British child? i find it hard to believe they would remove her based on our circumstances.
> 
> a tourist visa would be sufficient.


She could apply for a tourist visa, but she would have to prove very strong ties to NZ and that she would be required to be back in NZ at a certain time.....job ties, etc. Being refused a visa, plus being an overstayer previously, will make obtaining any kind of visa much more difficult. If she just shows up, without a previously approved tourist visa, it is most likely she would be refused entry.

You have asked for help, opinions and suggestions for your situation. If you don't like the answers you are given, you certainly have the right to pursue whatever action you wish. We are only trying to give you useful information and trying to save you and your family extreme stress and expense. Folks on this forum have experienced the same issues and have valuable experience and knowledge they are willing to share with you. Whether you listen or not is your choice. Good luck.


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## webbynz (Jan 23, 2015)

I appreciate that, two immigration lawyers I have spoken to said they see it highly unlikely that they would 'remove' her so trying to build up some other opinions now.

NZ has a visa waiver agreement with the UK.

Would you not think that a humanist approach might be to allow her in temporarily to allow our family to be together, take her passport if need be whilst we sort an additional visa out? Surely it's not as out of the question as you seem to be saying? The British (and UK born) son surely has to be a factor in letting her in.


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## AmyD (Jan 12, 2013)

You're very naive if that is what you think. They absolutely would refuse to allow her to come back in with a child if she is unable to meet the requirements for her visa.

She will not get a tourist visa under these circumstances. You must sort out her visa problems from NZ before attempting to return to the UK.

Good luck to you.


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## webbynz (Jan 23, 2015)

and could you please let me know if you've had any first-hand experience of this Amy? with a family in our situation?


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## AmyD (Jan 12, 2013)

Read through this forum. You'll find plenty of stories of people who want to be with their spouses and can't be for a variety of reasons. Though I'm sure your situation is very frustrating, it isn't unusual. 

If you disagree with the advice here, please take whatever course of action you think best. But remember the more negative strikes your wife has against her immigration history, the more unlikely it is she will get any visa for a very long time. So, as I said, good luck to you.


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## Water Dragon (Jun 28, 2011)

webbynz said:


> I appreciate that, two immigration lawyers I have spoken to said they see it highly unlikely that they would 'remove' her so trying to build up some other opinions now.
> 
> NZ has a visa waiver agreement with the UK.
> 
> Would you not think that a humanist approach might be to allow her in temporarily to allow our family to be together, take her passport if need be whilst we sort an additional visa out? Surely it's not as out of the question as you seem to be saying? The British (and UK born) son surely has to be a factor in letting her in.


Please understand that we aren't trying to make any of this more difficult for you than it already is. We know it is very hard for families to be separated by what appears to be cumbersome and seemingly unfair bureaucratic rules. However, there is no point in painting a nice picture for you, only for your wife to be traumatized by a refused entry and the additional futile expense of flight tickets.

Attorneys have been notorious for giving incorrect advice, while also costing a lot of money. Hundreds (if not more) of people have gotten good instructions here and even difficult cases have reported final success after following directions given here. We have no financial incentive to tell you what you'd like to hear....we just want others to be able to be with their families as we have been able to do.

It is hard to hear the truth of the matter, but it is much better to know what you are facing and how to deal with the obstacles than to waste time and money.


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## Crawford (Jan 23, 2011)

Since you are working and earning over the financial requirements minimum of 18,600 per annum,(as per your first post) then you should re-apply for a spouse visa, providing all the necessary documents to prove your income etc and, if you go for priority service you could be with your family within a few months. 

I see no point in your wife trying to enter the country without the necessary papers, and/or going through the courts with expensive immigration lawyer fees, when you say you have the necessary income to sponsor her.

I don't understand how you pay tax on only 7K when you earn far more, and that is probably what caused your last visa application to be refused. 

Prove your 'real' income on a new application and you should be fine.


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## webbynz (Jan 23, 2015)

appreciate all the response.

Crawford: not an option without waiting another 6 months unfortunately.

i'm looking into the surinder singh route and it looks like we're going to need to move to Dublin. what i'd like to know is will the immigration in Dublin refuse my wife entry there as well? i guess what i'm asking is that she has a right to come in to the EU as she's married to me, but with Ireland and the UK sharing immigration information, is it likely they will let her through?

as she's a NZ citizen, she doesn't need a visa so i assume all she does is go to Dublin and tell the immigration officer that we plan to settle and work in Ireland for a while? she'll have our marriage certificate etc and just wondering what type of questions she'll likely face.


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## Ausmkd (Dec 22, 2014)

If you are confident with your legal advice I suggest follow it. Personally I do not have experience in this example but the replies you have received do seem appropriate and logical. Unfortunately it may be the harsh reality and moving to a new location may be a wise choice if you are that desperate to be together. There are posts on this forum re going via Ireland that may be worth reading. They suggest it is not a long term solution either. Maybe another question for your legal person, and maybe get their response in writing to use at border control if you decide to follow it. Otherwise, like the rest of us, it is a very long and frustrating waiting period within the appeals process.


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## webbynz (Jan 23, 2015)

just re-reading your message AmyD and I must say you come across as a complete and utter ****. maybe have some compassion before you post next time as these are very sensitive situations if i want someone to judge me then i'd go ask my mother. anyway, all i can say is i hope she gets through and i have the opportunity to come back on this board and take away that massive high-horse you seem to be up on.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

webbynz said:


> just re-reading your message AmyD and I must say you come across as a complete and utter ****. maybe have some compassion before you post next time as these are very sensitive situations if i want someone to judge me then i'd go ask my mother. anyway, all i can say is i hope she gets through and i have the opportunity to come back on this board and take away that massive high-horse you seem to be up on.


When people take the time and trouble to post and offer you genuine advice, it's customary to show gratitude. Even if you don't like the content. Please keep that in mind, should you post again 

Jo

Sent from my D5803 using Expat Forum


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## webbynz (Jan 23, 2015)

i am more than happy to show gratitude for genuine advice, however i expect people to back up there 'genuine advice' with at least some reference to another case or to provide some other supporting evidence rather than just say 'you're screwed'. it's pathetic and anyone who posts advice should be sympathetic to a difficult situation that someone is clearly crying out for help with. 

to say 'good luck to you' at the end of a message is a cop-out also where she clearly does not mean it in any way shape or form.


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## Water Dragon (Jun 28, 2011)

webbynz said:


> just re-reading your message AmyD and I must say you come across as a complete and utter ****. maybe have some compassion before you post next time as these are very sensitive situations if i want someone to judge me then i'd go ask my mother. anyway, all i can say is i hope she gets through and i have the opportunity to come back on this board and take away that massive high-horse you seem to be up on.


There are times when hard truth can seem unkind or abrasive. However, it is fact that repeated immigration infractions - such as overstaying, spouse visa refusal, and possibly your scenario of your wife and child just showing up at the border and hoping for leniency, could very possibly result in a total ban from the UK for quite a period of time (I'm thinking maybe 10 years?). If this extreme scenario doesn't happen, any future applications would certainly attract extra attention and scrutiny.

Of course you don't want to hear all this and want a speedy, easy solution so your family can be together. That is the wish of all applicants on this forum. Unfortunately, the bureaucracy that makes the rules and the decisions has no flexibility or emotional concerns regarding families that are separated. The hard facts that are being relayed to you don't reflect any personal ideals of superiority or elitism. They are just unpleasant facts. How you use the information and knowledge that is being shared, is completely up to you. Please remember that the consequences will be yours as well; we would just like them to be positive rather than negative.


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## webbynz (Jan 23, 2015)

my point is it's not hard truth. from what i've read, and i've read a lot, the UKBA have the power to exercise an element of discretion. when i read cases that people have overstayed for 17 years and upon return to the UK receive temporary admission, it leads me to believe that there is in fact a chance that she will be allowed to stay given the circumstances. in all of the "advice" i've received on this forum then it's almost guaranteed that she will be deported, treated like a dog and sent back in 5 minutes which in reality i just don't see happening. you might be right and if that's the case then so be it and i wouldn't want to live in this country anyway. i would prefer to be advised of the full spectrum of possble outcomes as opposed to being given advice of "this will 100% happen" which history has clearly shown is not always the case.


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## Crawford (Jan 23, 2011)

Here's a nice little summary of possible scenarios. 

As said previously, if you earn enough to fulfill the financial requirements, then you are taking an enormous risk and creating untold hardship for your family:


_Without entry clearance

If you haven't received entry clearance, you may be asked to return to your home country immediately or given a short period of temporary admission until a final decision is reached; this can be anything between 24 hours and a week.

In either event, you can contact the Immigration Advisory Service (IAS), by telephoning the local representative; the IAS has representatives at all major UK airports. They can offer some advice and services for free, depending on your circumstances. You shouldn't take further action until you have received advice from the IAS or another legal agency; someone may be able to make a representation on your behalf to prevent your being deported. 

If you aren't granted temporary admission, you may be held in a detention centre or permitted to stay in private accommodation if you can reassure the authorities that you won’t abscond. If you are granted temporary admission on this basis, you will be given a date and time when you must report back to immigration. You must surrender your passport to the immigration officer and remain at the address you have supplied.

The period of temporary admission is to allow you time to provide the necessary evidence to support your case for entry into the UK. If, at the end of the period of temporary admission, you’re unable to provide the evidence required or you cannot convince immigration to allow you to stay, you should leave the UK voluntarily.

If you refuse to leave voluntarily, you will be detained and forcibly removed, which will probably make it impossible for you to return to the UK in the future.

If you leave voluntarily, you will be able to try again to enter the UK, provided you can satisfy the immigration officials on your return. You can appeal against the refusal within 28 days, but only after you have returned to your home country._


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## nyclon (Apr 3, 2011)

Your spouse has overstayed and been denied a visa. Nobody wants to be separated from their family but your best option for success is to reapply when you meet the requirements. That's the advice that we would give to anyone in your situation. Your situation isn't special or unique so don't expect special treatment.


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## autumnlover (Aug 12, 2014)

Be very careful of immigration lawyers. Many will tell you what they think you want to hear to loosen up your pockets. My UK husband was outright lied to by ours. If we'd followed her advice we would have undoubtedly been refused a spouse visa, not to mention have lost _a lot_ of money. 

Edited because the advice wouldn't have been appreciated.


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## twee (Feb 1, 2014)

autumnlover said:


> Be very careful of immigration lawyers. Many will tell you what they think you want to hear to loosen up your pockets. My UK husband was outright lied to by ours. If we'd followed her advice we would have undoubtedly been refused a spouse visa, not to mention have lost a lot of money. Edited because the advice wouldn't have been appreciated.


Agree with autumnlover. We used an immigration lawyer the first time. 
He took our money, lied to us and the HO rejected our application and rightly so when we found out why our application failed.
You do not get back the money you pay for a visa if your application is denied. 
In the end we were out almost £3000 PLUS because the lawyer took ages to submit our application, my visa had expired and I was then deemed an over stayer. 
I've had to wait a year, to reapply and I am away from my partner. 

Believe me, it does happen and it is not fun. The HO have strict rules and they follow them to the "T" 
However, the rules are the same for all of us. There really are no short cuts. 
I honestly do hope you don't have to go through what some of us have had to go through. It's tough being apart.

In a couple of weeks I am going to apply again, and this time I am doing it all myself. 
The advice on this forum is fabulous if people listen to the experts and others who have gone before us.


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## Confused Pom (Dec 17, 2014)

webbynz said:


> just re-reading your message AmyD and I must say you come across as a complete and utter ****. maybe have some compassion before you post next time as these are very sensitive situations if i want someone to judge me then i'd go ask my mother. anyway, all i can say is i hope she gets through and i have the opportunity to come back on this board and take away that massive high-horse you seem to be up on.


Well if you would like some kind of back up to claims I shall give you one. My brothers partner tried this and failed. She is Australian and was refused a spouse visa and turned up in the UK on this same advice and was sent back. She did not have the added over stay that your wife does. Boarder control told her temp entry can be granted if you have a clean history, ties to your own country that will mean you are likely to go home and you meet the requirements for a further visa. She was refused on the basis she is in a relationship with a uk citizen and has been denied a spouse visa. Your wife currently ticks NONE of them boxes. Therefore they have to assume she would not return home. Now putting your wife in the same shoes it is even worse for her. She cant prove ties back home to convince them she would leave as she has you the father of her baby, she has been denied a visa already AND has already over stayed once. This is the exact scenario for assume run aways. I am not saying she would disappear but that is how they assess the risk. You say how can they send her away with a baby well under that ties test it is actually more of a reason to stay than go so makes it worse. Boarder control will see no reason for your wife leaving if a spouse visa is denied again as she has more here than NZ.Also if you can not meet the visa requirements yet that option is pointless anyway. In the highly unlikely even she is granted temp entrance it is only a VERY short time and not long enough for you to qualify for a spouse visa so you would be back to square one in a week or so and have the added expense of the flight. If she gets refused entry turning up and is refused like my sister In law she is highly likely going to get a 10 year ban so think carefully. My sister in law was ok as she did not have as many negative strikes on her record as your wife does. You asked for actual fact so I have provided an actual case for you. Do with that info what you wish.


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## lizard0924 (Jan 8, 2015)

webbynz said:


> i am more than happy to show gratitude for genuine advice, however i expect people to back up there 'genuine advice' with at least some reference to another case or to provide some other supporting evidence rather than just say 'you're screwed'. it's pathetic and anyone who posts advice should be sympathetic to a difficult situation that someone is clearly crying out for help with.
> 
> to say 'good luck to you' at the end of a message is a cop-out also where she clearly does not mean it in any way shape or form.


Webbynz - From my own personal experience (US citizen married to a Brit), Immigration Control can be very strict when a visa waiver national tries to enter the UK. I don't need to obtain a visa to visit the UK, so theoretically my entry should be a breeze, right?

Well...

On my very first visit to the UK (while traveling with my British spouse for a *one week *holiday to visit his family), I was segregated at the Southampton airport and grilled for quite a long time as to my plans, my personal data, etc, etc, etc...perhaps it was because I was the only non-UK/EU passport holder on the small plane from Amsterdam. Or because the immigration officer was having a bad day. Or because my country of residence was a tiny Caribbean island the IO had never heard of. Or maybe I looked suspicious in his eyes because I was an American woman traveling with my British spouse. I don't know and it really doesn't matter.

My point is that UK immigration take their jobs very seriously and even for visitors with no adverse UK immigration history (no overstays, no denials of visas, nothing), entry is all but guaranteed. Honestly, in all my decades of international travel, I've never had such difficulty entering a country as I did the first time I came to the UK. Heck, getting into Venezuela as an American was easier! 

I can only imagine for a person such as your wife who has both a visa denial and overstay issues on her "UK record" the entry process may well be even more difficult, if not impossible.

I do truly have empathy for you and your situation and imagine it is excruciatingly difficult to be separated from your wife and infant child. But personally, with the facts you've laid out, I would either consider a move to another country or get all your ducks in a row, then re-apply for a spousal visa.


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## webbynz (Jan 23, 2015)

Thanks for your messages. Appreciate taking the time to post your experiences. 

I'm hoping the British baby is the trump card here.


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## ashkevron (May 1, 2012)

webbynz said:


> Thanks for your messages. Appreciate taking the time to post your experiences.
> 
> I'm hoping the British baby is the trump card here.


I don't think that will make any difference whatsoever, may only make things worse actually cause she'll have more reasons to stay in the UK, thus there are more reasons to deny her entry. Besides, even if she is allowed to get into the country (and I think that is very, very unlikely) there is no way for her to change her entry clearance into any sort of visa allowing her to stay in the UK. You just won't be able to find a form that applies to her situation, as it doesn't exist.

What I don't get is, from what I understand, she *was* in the UK on a valid spouse visa in 2012. Was this under the old or under the new rules and why didn't you just extend it in time? I'm not sure if that piece of the puzzle can have any influence on your current situation, though probably not.


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## webbynz (Jan 23, 2015)

surely having a baby adds a complication and the UKBA will have to consider his welfare prior to removing my wife though, which is what we're banking on. have had numerous conversations with my wife about this. she is comfortable trying - seems like it's a 50/50 shot and we have to try it.

i understand that we may be able to apply outside immigration rules based on grounds of human rights once we're within the UK.

yep she was, as mentioned, she overlooked extending it and when we realised it was too late. she was under the old rules at that time.


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## nyclon (Apr 3, 2011)

You have no grounds to apply humanitarian reasons. That's for people in situations where their life would be in danger should they be returned to their home country due to things like war. Clearly, New Zealand doesn't fit that description. The best outcome you could hope for is that she would be allowed to enter for a few days to tie up affairs before being sent back to NZ. The worst case is that she will be banned for 10 years.


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## webbynz (Jan 23, 2015)

i'll let you know how we get on. 

multiple immigration lawyers we've spoken to have suggested that we do have human rights grounds


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

They say that so that they can take on your case at vast fees.
I don't think you have a very strong ground for human right (private and family life), though never say never.


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## nyclon (Apr 3, 2011)

Your multiple immigration lawyers are wrong. From the rules on discretionary leave:



> From 9 July 2012 DL must not be granted for Article 8 family or private life reasons.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Yes, but Home Office can still decide outside the rules, but it isn't called DL and doesn't come with associated rights like extension and ILR (you have to get fresh decision each time).


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## Confused Pom (Dec 17, 2014)

webbynz said:


> surely having a baby adds a complication and the UKBA will have to consider his welfare prior to removing my wife though, which is what we're banking on. have had numerous conversations with my wife about this. she is comfortable trying - seems like it's a 50/50 shot and we have to try it.
> 
> i understand that we may be able to apply outside immigration rules based on grounds of human rights once we're within the UK.
> 
> yep she was, as mentioned, she overlooked extending it and when we realised it was too late. she was under the old rules at that time.


Sorry as I don't know your background this question is not so obvious but would you not consider a spouse visa for NZ? Moving to NZ doesn't have to be forever if you do t want to leave the uk for good but you could at least be together and sort your uk qualifying situation out? Just a thought not sure if it fits your situation.

On a personal experience note NZ is amazing anyway


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## webbynz (Jan 23, 2015)

yeah NZ is amazing, we were born and raised there and came to the UK five years ago. our time in the UK isn't up yet however if this doesn't work we will have little choice but to return..... or try alternative means to get my wife in.


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## ashkevron (May 1, 2012)

webbynz said:


> i'll let you know how we get on.
> 
> multiple immigration lawyers we've spoken to have suggested that we do have human rights grounds


So unfortunate to have missed extending it under the old rules as they were much easier. I think you may have some very, very slim chances if you try and use the human rights ground but realistically, I don't think it will work. Even if it does work, it will certainly not be a speedy and guaranteed way forward. Far from it. Your entire lives will be taken over by appeals, expensive lawyers, threats of her deportation and it will last for a long time and it's not a healthy situation to be in. If you can fulfil the requirements under the new rules, it's probably much better to apply again than go through the super stressful human rights thinggie.

And that's if, and very much if she is let into the country. What is she going to say to the border people cause she will be drilled by them? I came to the UK as a visitor and am planning to stay and apply on human rights grounds cause my baby is British? I can't see that going too well.


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## AmyD (Jan 12, 2013)

Just want to point out that there is no problem with the British baby staying in the UK. They may very well suggest the baby stay. But the wife has absolutely no right and no recourse to be in the UK and they will rightly kick her out.

I know this sucks, but you don't seem to understand that these 'loopholes' you keep thinking you're finding are not loopholes at all.


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## webbynz (Jan 23, 2015)

yeah it's a fair point, i certainly don't want that but we've little alternative to be honest.

my wife is going to state that she is visiting for a few months to enable me and my son to spend time together and for our family unit to be restored whilst i sort out my financial situation. she will then go back to NZ and apply for another spouse visa once it's been sorted.



ashkevron said:


> So unfortunate to have missed extending it under the old rules as they were much easier. I think you may have some very, very slim chances if you try and use the human rights ground but realistically, I don't think it will work. Even if it does work, it will certainly not be a speedy and guaranteed way forward. Far from it. Your entire lives will be taken over by appeals, expensive lawyers, threats of her deportation and it will last for a long time and it's not a healthy situation to be in. If you can fulfil the requirements under the new rules, it's probably much better to apply again than go through the super stressful human rights thinggie.
> 
> And that's if, and very much if she is let into the country. What is she going to say to the border people cause she will be drilled by them? I came to the UK as a visitor and am planning to stay and apply on human rights grounds cause my baby is British? I can't see that going too well.


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## webbynz (Jan 23, 2015)

she could be admitted as a visitor. 



AmyD said:


> Just want to point out that there is no problem with the British baby staying in the UK. They may very well suggest the baby stay. But the wife has absolutely no right and no recourse to be in the UK and they will rightly kick her out.
> 
> I know this sucks, but you don't seem to understand that these 'loopholes' you keep thinking you're finding are not loopholes at all.


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## nyclon (Apr 3, 2011)

webbynz said:


> yeah it's a fair point, i certainly don't want that but we've little alternative to be honest.


But you do. Your wife stays in NZ and you reapply once you meet all the requirements.


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## AmyD (Jan 12, 2013)

webbynz said:


> she could be admitted as a visitor.


That is one of the loopholes I'm talking about. She probably will not be admitted as a visitor. There is a very high likelihood that with her adverse immigration history, her open desire to live in the UK, and her lack of ties to NZ that she will never make it past the airport. She will be put on the next flight to NZ and sent home. If that happens, you're making the situation a thousand times worse for yourself. 

You're simply not being realistic. It sucks, I know. But you need to look at the facts as they are, not as you keep wishing they were.


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## webbynz (Jan 23, 2015)

it's not a loophole. it's called discretion, which i know the officers have.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

But they are much more likely to deny her entry, not using discretion.


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## webbynz (Jan 23, 2015)

joppa, i see you've commented on surinder singh route before? what do you think my wife's chances of getting into Dublin. we're looking into this an alternative. not going to bother if she's no chance of getting into Dublin. i am going to see if my work will allow me to work remotely and then will work part-time also (although i see there's an option of self-suffiiency now.

can you explain what we would need to do prior to arrival in Dublin? how much money do you need for self-sufiiciency? if i have to i can get a part-time job at nights or something. we have friends and Dublin who have offered for us to stay for a few weeks whilst we find somewhere to live. Is this alright?


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## ashkevron (May 1, 2012)

webbynz said:


> joppa, i see you've commented on surinder singh route before? what do you think my wife's chances of getting into Dublin. we're looking into this an alternative. not going to bother if she's no chance of getting into Dublin. i am going to see if my work will allow me to work remotely and then will work part-time also (although i see there's an option of self-suffiiency now.
> 
> can you explain what we would need to do prior to arrival in Dublin? how much money do you need for self-sufiiciency? if i have to i can get a part-time job at nights or something. we have friends and Dublin who have offered for us to stay for a few weeks whilst we find somewhere to live. Is this alright?


Yeah, I think that's fine, she should not have any problems getting the EEA family permit to join you in Dublin. You'll need to be working there, thus exercising your treaty rights and will have to move the so-called centre of life there but overall, that's a much more reasonable route.


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## nyclon (Apr 3, 2011)

I'm not sure working remotely for your UK employer is going to satisfy UKVI that you have moved the centre of your life.


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## webbynz (Jan 23, 2015)

how would they know?


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## nyclon (Apr 3, 2011)

Don't you file taxes?


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## webbynz (Jan 23, 2015)

my concern is around getting into Dublin. i know that they may view us a wanting to take a back-door route into the UK. is anyone clear on exactly what our right is on arrival to Dublin? do we need a visa of some kind?



ashkevron said:


> Yeah, I think that's fine, she should not have any problems getting the EEA family permit to join you in Dublin. You'll need to be working there, thus exercising your treaty rights and will have to move the so-called centre of life there but overall, that's a much more reasonable route.


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## webbynz (Jan 23, 2015)

reading this link Joopla sent me earlier, it seems as if they don't have any rights to deny us entry. correct?

Residence rights of EU/EEA nationals in Ireland


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## webbynz (Jan 23, 2015)

i'm self-employed and just filed my tax return and won't need to do so until next jan now.



nyclon said:


> Don't you file taxes?


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## _shel (Mar 2, 2014)

webbynz said:


> reading this link Joopla sent me earlier, it seems as if they don't have any rights to deny us entry. correct?
> 
> Residence rights of EU/EEA nationals in Ireland


 Entry and legal residence are two different things. Plenty enter as tourists every day, obtaining residence to qualify for SS is a different matter.


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## webbynz (Jan 23, 2015)

ok, so what rights do they have to deny entry? i've heard having a spouse visa declined, for instance, is not grounds to deny entry to Ireland. if they think we're going to use it as a backdoor route to the UK then i guess we have to ensure that we appropriate documents to ensure that we can argue this?


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## LilGizmo (Jan 6, 2015)

webbynz said:


> ok, so what rights do they have to deny entry? i've heard having a spouse visa declined, for instance, is not grounds to deny entry to Ireland. if they think we're going to use it as a backdoor route to the UK then i guess we have to ensure that we appropriate documents to ensure that we can argue this?


You just totally missed the point shel made. Gaining entry and being able to stay are 2 different things. Nobody is saying they will deny entry.... getting in is probably not a problem... it is the being allowed to stay bit that you have to worry about.

Further to your other post to Joppa the fact you do not need to file tax returns makes no odds. You will be asked where you work etc. They will know you technically work in the uk so the centre of your universe is not in Ireland so have no real reason to be in Ireland. It will skink to high heaven of you trying to back door it as you have tried to move her to the uk and failed. I am irish born and raised and am deeply offended that you would not only try to use Ireland like this... but that you also think we would be stupid enough to buy your story!!


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## webbynz (Jan 23, 2015)

Take your judgemental attitude elsewhere if you don't mind.


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## LilGizmo (Jan 6, 2015)

webbynz said:


> Take your judgemental attitude elsewhere if you don't mind.


You really are not a nice person. I have read your previous vile posts to Amy etc. Sorry to say this but this situation could not have happened to a nicer man.

I am also sorry to say this but you have a bad attitude because you don't want to hear the truth. You are clutching at straws trying to find a way out of a mess you created yourselves. You are not prepared to get yourself in a position where you are eligible for the spouse visa like everyone else because you are the sort of person that wants everything like yesterday. Well life doesn't work like that and everyone wanting a spouse visa but doesn't qualify have to go through this. You are nothing special/. What I said was true and you know it.

You can dish out nasty remarks and insults to people trying to help but can not handle them back. Well I am sorry but your attitude stinks and I am surprised anyone has continued trying to help you.

Good day to you and good luck on your pointless quest you rude man.

You still missed the point shell made.


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## webbynz (Jan 23, 2015)

What was the point?


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## Hertsfem (Jun 19, 2013)

Drop the feeling of entitlement and get on with it like everyone else!


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## webbynz (Jan 23, 2015)

Some feisty people on this forum. If someone calls me 'vile' then I surely have the right to defend myself.

I still have no idea why people are getting on my back. I suggest everyone needs to chill.


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## Hertsfem (Jun 19, 2013)

webbynz said:


> Some feisty people on this forum. If someone calls me 'vile' then I surely have the right to defend myself.
> 
> I still have no idea why people are getting on my back. I suggest everyone needs to chill.



Mainly because your attitude sucks and people on here give their time for free!!


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## LilGizmo (Jan 6, 2015)

webbynz said:


> Some feisty people on this forum. If someone calls me 'vile' then I surely have the right to defend myself.
> 
> I still have no idea why people are getting on my back. I suggest everyone needs to chill.


I never said you were vile I said you posted a vile message to Amy... it contained **** I think that is vile don't you?

And really, you don't see it?


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## LilGizmo (Jan 6, 2015)

Anyway this is getting off topic and I quite frankly do not want to spend my evening having any further communication with you. You are not the sort of person I like talking to. I am actually beginning to think you are a spammer it is just all so odd. Good bye!!


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## webbynz (Jan 23, 2015)

Have a lovely evening


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## ALKB (Jan 20, 2012)

webbynz said:


> What was the point?


The point _shel was trying to bring across was that in order for you and your family to stay beyond 90 days in Ireland and gain residency, you, as the EU national, will have to exercise treaty rights in Ireland.

So if you are self-employed you will have to shift your self-employment/business to Ireland, register as self-employed with the Irish authorities, etc.

You own a property in the UK, right?

If you let that sit empty, this might also count against you in the centre of life test for Surinder Singh.


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## webbynz (Jan 23, 2015)

thanks for the advice. 

good point on the property. we can put the house up for rent, that's no problem. i realise that working from Ireland remotely would not be sufficient evidence of 'centre of life' so yes, i would need to move that.

still seems like the best route for our family to be together at least.


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## AmyD (Jan 12, 2013)

You're not really "getting" immigration. To move to Ireland, you must really move to Ireland, not just be there in name only. It will take a year - at least - of living there and exercising your treaty rights in order to move back to the UK. I believe there was a case recently here on the forum where someone was trying to do the same thing you're doing and was not successful because the property was rented out, not sold. The requirements are getting tighter and the UK is unlikely to allow your family back in if they suspect - rightly so - that you're attempting to circumvent UK immigration rules.

If you're going to keep posting, please at least take to heart some of what people are telling you.


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## _shel (Mar 2, 2014)

Indeed, I've seen cases denied because they kept the property in the UK, get employment open or business registered in the UK.

They really expect you to show you have moved your entire life to the EU country. That you are not just using it as a stopping off point to get around immigration rules. 

That means everything you do in the UK now you close down and restart it in Ireland, silly things like re registering your car, ensuring addresses are changed on all your business and financial documents etc. As well as joining in social and community life there and integrating your family there in religion (if appropriate) education, community life etc. 

Keep evidence of all of this, you need it to prove you have moved your life. Your childs nursery registration, photos from community events etc are not usually important but they are now.


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## Water Dragon (Jun 28, 2011)

webbynz said:


> thanks for the advice.
> 
> good point on the property. we can put the house up for rent, that's no problem. i realise that working from Ireland remotely would not be sufficient evidence of 'centre of life' so yes, i would need to move that.
> 
> still seems like the best route for our family to be together at least.


Considering the amount of energy and effort you are willing to expend to attempt to circumvent the immigration laws, I'm really confused why you won't consider the only straight-forward, legitimate "best" route - get a job in the UK, set up appropriate accommodation and work for 6 months, then submit your wife's new spouse visa application? Why is 6 months of doing the right thing not more feasible than expensive, time-consuming, risky unscrupulous attempts that could result in an all-out ban???

The ongoing arguments you continue to post are beginning to make me also think you may be a troll.


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## _shel (Mar 2, 2014)

Filing the correct taxes will have her a visa in no time. What are you a taxi driver


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## Veronica (Apr 5, 2008)

this guy is a troll


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## webbynz (Jan 23, 2015)

Great insight Veronica. 

Thanks to all those who provided advice. Seems like it's best if I be on my way so please close the thread.


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