# Lake Chapala, Jalisco or Bucerias, Nayarit



## soulfish

So we are thinking of moving to Lake Chapala, Jalisco or Bucerias, Nayarit from Manitoba, Canada...(yea -43c today).

My wife and I average 37 years old we have a 8 year old child and one on the way.
We have spent some time in the P.V. area, our longest stay was from Sept. to April.
My wife was born in P.V. Mexico and moved to Canada when she was 15 yo. We are growing tired of life in Canada ( working hard to pay high taxes and watching the years fly by ).

We are both self employed (beauty . graphics) and would like to continue our businesses in Mexico.

Right now we are leaning towards the Chapala area and taking short winter vacations to Bucerias.

So the real research starts today.
If anyone has the quick answers... thanks in advance 

Things we need to know ...for starters.
1. Schools from kinder to high school (are there choices )( English Spanish )
2.Business ( how many hair salons are in the area )(how much does a hair cut cost in chapala) ( are home based allowed)
3. health insurance ( should you buy a plan or pay as you go)
4. income tax ..... 
5. is the lake swim-able or will you grow a third eye
6. heat.. we notice most homes have fireplaces do they get alot of use


thanks to everyone in advance for all the help.


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## Hound Dog

[_QUOTE=soulfish;1062875]So we are thinking of moving to Lake Chapala, Jalisco or Bucerias, Nayarit from Manitoba, Canada...(yea -43c today).

My wife and I average 37 years old we have a 8 year old child and one on the way.
We have spent some time in the P.V. area, our longest stay was from Sept. to April.
My wife was born in P.V. Mexico and moved to Canada when she was 15 yo. We are growing tired of life in Canada ( working hard to pay high taxes and watching the years fly by ).

We are both self employed (beauty . graphics) and would like to continue our businesses in Mexico.

Right now we are leaning towards the Chapala area and taking short winter vacations to Bucerias.

So the real research starts today.
If anyone has the quick answers... thanks in advance 

I can´t anwer all of your questions, soulfish,especillay regarding schools 

Things we need to know ...for starters.
1. Schools from kinder to high school (are there choices )( English Spanish )
2.Business ( how many hair salons are in the area )(how much does a hair cut cost in chapala) ( are home based allowed)
3. health insurance ( should you buy a plan or pay as you go)
4. income tax ..... 
5. is the lake swim-able or will you grow a third eye
6. heat.. we notice most homes have fireplaces do they get alot of use


thanks to everyone in advance for all the help.[/QUOTE]_

I can´t answer all of your questions, soulfish, especially regarding schools and business competition but I´ll try on a couple:
3) Buy a health insurance plan with a reputable company but, on the other hand, we are retirees in our 60s and 70s so your needs may differ. IMSS or Seguro Popular plus your personal financial resources may be enough to meet your needs. Come down here and check it out.
5) Many people, especially kids, swim in the lake and eat the tainted fish from that lake but I would recommend against that as a repetitive exercise. The lake is the catch basin for thousands of kilometers of the Lerma River Basin and thus contains all sorts of agricultural and industrial chemical runoff plus copious amounts of raw sewage runoff from all sorts of sources including lakeside communities.
6) We have a large fireplace in our home at Lakeside and it is often used along with three propane wall heaters to keep us warm in the winter months. If you want to avoid this, head for Bucerias in the dead of winter where the climate should be splendid. 

Good luck on your move.


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## TundraGreen

Hound Dog said:


> … 6) We have a large fireplace in our home at Lakeside and it is often used along with three propane wall heaters to keep us warm in the winter months. If you want to avoid this, head for Bucerias in the dead of winter where the climate should be splendid. …


The only qualification I would add to Hound Dog's suggestions is to take the sun into consideration when choosing where to live. I have no fireplace and no source of heat and all my rooms are very comfortable all year round. The walls are half meter thick adobe and all the rooms have a good southern exposure. This keeps them comfortable without any source of heat or cooling in every season. Guadalajara may be a little warmer than Lake Chapala but it is not much different.


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## soulfish

Thanks for the info. On the heating and the toxic lake (I live on lake Winnipeg in Manitoba and I don't swim in it too much either)

But back to business..
Anyone out there have any info on the hair salons in the chapala area?
Cost of cuts and colors?
Number of shops in the area?

Also any info on tshirt printers, vehicle graphics, or graphic design?

thanks again.


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## Anonimo

*Details, details, details!*



soulfish said:


> Thanks for the info. On the heating and the toxic lake (I live on lake Winnipeg in Manitoba and I don't swim in it too much either)
> 
> But back to business..
> Anyone out there have any info on the hair salons in the chapala area?
> Cost of cuts and colors?
> Number of shops in the area?
> 
> Also any info on tshirt printers, vehicle graphics, or graphic design?
> 
> thanks again.


I have to say that although I've never been in Chapala area, I will bet that when you get there, those places that you ask about will be in abundance and obvious to you. You will learn where they are and make decisions on which you prefer, based on your own, real life experiences. Be patient, you will know these things after you move there. :confused2:


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## mickisue1

Anonimo said:


> I have to say that although I've never been in Chapala area, I will bet that when you get there, those places that you ask about will be in abundance and obvious to you. You will learn where they are and make decisions on which you prefer, based on your own, real life experiences. Be patient, you will know these things after you move there. :confused2:


He's asking in order to open one, not utilize one. 

Beyond that, your advice is still good: spend some time there and look around!


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## Anonimo

*Light bulb!*



mickisue1 said:


> He's asking in order to open one, not utilize one.
> 
> Beyond that, your advice is still good: spend some time there and look around!


Ah! I see.


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## fjack1415

Hmm, I live in PV and have only visited Lake Chapala once, staying in Ajijic for a few days in the summer. It seemed to me that the ****** and local communities are rather divided (with most gringos living on the other side of the highway) and it seemed kind of dull to me . I should think it to be especially so for a couple of your age. *How about the contrary, wintering eight months in PV, Bucerias, or Nuevo Vallarta, and summering elsewhere?*
On swimming in the lake: I saw a snake swimming in it and that kind of turned me off on the idea. Hey!! Did you know that D.H Lawrence's poem "The Snake" was written while he was in the Lake Chapala area_


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## Hound Dog

_


TundraGreen said:



The only qualification I would add to Hound Dog's suggestions is to take the sun into consideration when choosing where to live. I have no fireplace and no source of heat and all my rooms are very comfortable all year round. The walls are half meter thick adobe and all the rooms have a good southern exposure. This keeps them comfortable without any source of heat or cooling in every season. Guadalajara may be a little warmer than Lake Chapala but it is not much different.

Click to expand...

_TG is right that you have to consider the sun and some other factors in deciding where to live. We live right at the lakefront in a valley and are surrounded by large mature trees and, thus, need to heat up the house a bit in the morning hours to take the chill off but by mid-morning the sun is almost always warm and artificial heat is no longer required. We also have the same thick walls TG has but, stone not adobe and we sleep with all the windows open at night which brings in the night chill. ironically, those thick stone walls retain the evening cool temperatures so temporary artificial heat is needed to take the evening chill off the air in the house or, we can simply retreat to the garden which is warmer in the mornings. 

In the spring, many of the homes up the hills bathed in sunshine become like ovens when the temperatures soar into the 90s Fahrenheit, our home stays cool all day long with no artificial inducements whatsoever except occasional ceiling fans.

Everything´s a trade off. Look around and, as TG says, pay attention to the environment in which each home is situated. 

By the way, the Lakeside area is choc-a-bloc with hair and beauty salons, some expensive and some with bargain rates and cheap places where a man can get very professional haircuts for a few pasos. I believe competition to be fierce. I would expect to pay $20 to $30 Pesos for a good haircut in my poor neighborhood of Six Corners but will pay up to $70 Pesos for a haircut alone at a hair salon. I know a very nice and professionally run place where I can get that haircut plus a shampoo and a pedicure for around $150 Pesos more or less.

Another thing to keep in mind is that the Lakeside area is full of retirees on tight pension based budgets and they can be maddenly cheap. Your pricing may lack what my college economics professor referred to as "elasticity".


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## sparks

Peluquerías or barber shops are one of the most common tiendas in Mexico .... so yes competition. If you are good and speak English you might appeal to the ****** crowd


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## mickisue1

fjack1415 said:


> Hmm, I live in PV and have only visited Lake Chapala once, staying in Ajijic for a few days in the summer. It seemed to me that the ****** and local communities are rather divided (with most gringos living on the other side of the highway) and it seemed kind of dull to me . I should think it to be especially so for a couple of your age. *How about the contrary, wintering eight months in PV, Bucerias, or Nuevo Vallarta, and summering elsewhere?*
> On swimming in the lake: I saw a snake swimming in it and that kind of turned me off on the idea. Hey!! Did you know that D.H Lawrence's poem "The Snake" was written while he was in the Lake Chapala area_


The OP has small kids, so I assume that a place to live throughout the school year is of critical importance to him and his wife.


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## johnmex

mickisue1 said:


> The OP has small kids, so I assume that a place to live throughout the school year is of critical importance to him and his wife.


I have to wonder if Chapala with all its "older" folks can offer good schools for the OP's kids....Bucerias certainly cannot.


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## Souper

Here is a site talking about the school situation in Bucerias.


Moving to Mexico - School & Kids


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## TSRamos

soulfish said:


> So we are thinking of moving to Lake Chapala, Jalisco or Bucerias, Nayarit from Manitoba, Canada...(yea -43c today).
> 
> My wife and I average 37 years old we have a 8 year old child and one on the way.
> We have spent some time in the P.V. area, our longest stay was from Sept. to April.
> My wife was born in P.V. Mexico and moved to Canada when she was 15 yo. We are growing tired of life in Canada ( working hard to pay high taxes and watching the years fly by ).
> 
> We are both self employed (beauty . graphics) and would like to continue our businesses in Mexico.
> 
> Right now we are leaning towards the Chapala area and taking short winter vacations to Bucerias.
> 
> So the real research starts today.
> If anyone has the quick answers... thanks in advance
> 
> Things we need to know ...for starters.
> 1. Schools from kinder to high school (are there choices )( English Spanish )
> 2.Business ( how many hair salons are in the area )(how much does a hair cut cost in chapala) ( are home based allowed)
> 3. health insurance ( should you buy a plan or pay as you go)
> 4. income tax .....
> 5. is the lake swim-able or will you grow a third eye
> 6. heat.. we notice most homes have fireplaces do they get alot of use
> 
> 
> thanks to everyone in advance for all the help.


 Hi , 
My husband Cruz and I are making a goal for the same move . Check out utubes on the area and international living ......


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## TSRamos

My husband and I are going for the same goal . Look up international living ..And the water is clean in this lake ! We are still in the States . I hope to meet you !


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## fjack1415

Hound Dog said:


> TG is right that you have to consider the sun and some other factors in deciding where to live. We live right at the lakefront in a valley and are surrounded by large mature trees and, thus, need to heat up the house a bit in the morning hours to take the chill off but by mid-morning the sun is almost always warm and artificial heat is no longer required. We also have the same thick walls TG has but, stone not adobe and we sleep with all the windows open at night which brings in the night chill. ironically, those thick stone walls retain the evening cool temperatures so temporary artificial heat is needed to take the evening chill off the air in the house or, we can simply retreat to the garden which is warmer in the mornings.
> 
> In the spring, many of the homes up the hills bathed in sunshine become like ovens when the temperatures soar into the 90s Fahrenheit, our home stays cool all day long with no artificial inducements whatsoever except occasional ceiling fans.
> 
> Everything´s a trade off. Look around and, as TG says, pay attention to the environment in which each home is situated.
> 
> By the way, the Lakeside area is choc-a-bloc with hair and beauty salons, some expensive and some with bargain rates and cheap places where a man can get very professional haircuts for a few pasos. I believe competition to be fierce. I would expect to pay $20 to $30 Pesos for a good haircut in my poor neighborhood of Six Corners but will pay up to $70 Pesos for a haircut alone at a hair salon. I know a very nice and professionally run place where I can get that haircut plus a shampoo and a pedicure for around $150 Pesos more or less.
> 
> Another thing to keep in mind is that the Lakeside area is full of retirees on tight pension based budgets and they can be maddenly cheap. Your pricing may lack what my college economics professor referred to as "elasticity".


Taking exception to my own comments above on Lake Chapala: West Ajijic and the six cornners area is nice and we did consider possibly moving there (ie, from Puerto Vallarta).


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## BetsyC

Hi!

My sister and her husband moved to Ajijic a few years ago. This is a charming town just down the road from Chapala. They lived in the village itself, not in any of the gated communities. Unfortunately, one of the drug cartel kidnappings and massacres last year took place only seven miles down the road from Ajijic. They got nervous and moved to San Miguel de Allende.

They just love San Miguel. My sister is a graphic (lettering) artist and had done very well for 25 years. She bought a house in Santa Fe, NM and all. Then her business suddenly dried up after 2008. After a lot of agonizing, they sold the house and moved to Mexico. She still gets occasional work through her longtime agent.

So now my sister has something called a “Lucrativa” which is a Mexican work permit of sorts. It is tied into length of residency I believe, maybe six months or a year. I am not sure. Anyway, my sister now conducts calligraphy workshops in San Miguel, and advertises her services for logos and artwork, and it is all perfectly legal.

If you want, I can ask my sister if she would be willing to share her email address. Do you have an email address that you would be willing to share? I would like to put you into contact with one another.

Betsy Chafcouloff


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## Isla Verde

BetsyC said:


> So now my sister has something called a “Lucrativa” which is a Mexican work permit of sorts. It is tied into length of residency I believe, maybe six months or a year. I am not sure. Anyway, my sister now conducts calligraphy workshops in San Miguel, and advertises her services for logos and artwork, and it is all perfectly legal.


Your sister has a residence visa that allows her to work in Mexico. The fact that it is "lucrativa" means that she can legally earn money from lucrative activities she carries on in Mexico and that she must pay taxes on this income. I have one too, and it allows me to teach English on a free-lance basis as well as do some translating and editing work.


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## TSRamos

BetsyC said:


> Hi!
> 
> My sister and her husband moved to Ajijic a few years ago. This is a charming town just down the road from Chapala. They lived in the village itself, not in any of the gated communities. Unfortunately, one of the drug cartel kidnappings and massacres last year took place only seven miles down the road from Ajijic. They got nervous and moved to San Miguel de Allende.
> 
> They just love San Miguel. My sister is a graphic (lettering) artist and had done very well for 25 years. She bought a house in Santa Fe, NM and all. Then her business suddenly dried up after 2008. After a lot of agonizing, they sold the house and moved to Mexico. She still gets occasional work through her longtime agent.
> 
> So now my sister has something called a “Lucrativa” which is a Mexican work permit of sorts. It is tied into length of residency I believe, maybe six months or a year. I am not sure. Anyway, my sister now conducts calligraphy workshops in San Miguel, and advertises her services for logos and artwork, and it is all perfectly legal.
> 
> If you want, I can ask my sister if she would be willing to share her email address. Do you have an email address that you would be willing to share? I would like to put you into contact with one another.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Betsy Chafcouloff



Hi,
Thanks for sharing this VIP information . Once the Narcos make their imprint that's it ! This is some very serious business and" THEY" are making a point . I would like your sisters email if possible . Thank you!!!!!!!!!!


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## CARamos

My wife and I are disheartened by the news of the recent, seemingly drug cartel related murders in the Lake Chapala area.

Given that we’ve thought of retiring in a couple of years to Lake Chapala, this news casts a shadow on our plans. Although we’ve not entirely made up our minds yet, it would be helpful if anyone could shed some light on whether this appears to be a growing concern.

Aside from another of my wife’s other concerns having to do with the possible prevalence of mosquitoes in Lake Chapala, I would appreciate some feedback on the relative cost of a home there versus San Miguel de Allende. I’ve read that SMA is more expensive in that regard. 

Any thoughts on relative pros and cons of two areas regarding cost of living, weather, etc. would be much appreciated.


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## AlanMexicali

CARamos said:


> My wife and I are disheartened by the news of the recent, seemingly drug cartel related murders in the Lake Chapala area.
> 
> Given that we’ve thought of retiring in a couple of years to Lake Chapala, this news casts a shadow on our plans. Although we’ve not entirely made up our minds yet, it would be helpful if anyone could shed some light on whether this appears to be a growing concern.
> 
> Aside from another of my wife’s other concerns having to do with the possible prevalence of mosquitoes in Lake Chapala, I would appreciate some feedback on the relative cost of a home there versus San Miguel de Allende. I’ve read that SMA is more expensive in that regard.
> 
> Any thoughts on relative pros and cons of two areas regarding cost of living, weather, etc. would be much appreciated.


My feelings are that the large cartels and their sub groups move into a specific territory to set up their business of extorting monthly payments from some of the more profitalbe local businesses possibly trying to out the group already there and stage an event as was seen there last year. I could be wrong. They are buliding a large casino at Lakeside now.

Mosquitoes are there for one of the seasons I have read.


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## mickisue1

CARamos said:


> My wife and I are disheartened by the news of the recent, seemingly drug cartel related murders in the Lake Chapala area.
> 
> Given that we’ve thought of retiring in a couple of years to Lake Chapala, this news casts a shadow on our plans. Although we’ve not entirely made up our minds yet, it would be helpful if anyone could shed some light on whether this appears to be a growing concern.
> 
> Aside from another of my wife’s other concerns having to do with the possible prevalence of mosquitoes in Lake Chapala, I would appreciate some feedback on the relative cost of a home there versus San Miguel de Allende. I’ve read that SMA is more expensive in that regard.
> 
> Any thoughts on relative pros and cons of two areas regarding cost of living, weather, etc. would be much appreciated.


Based on recent news, it appears that the ghastly incidents were an aberration, not a harbinger of things to come.

That said, there is senseless violence anywhere. You are fairly close to Milwaukee and Chicago, not exactly islands of peace and tranquility. Yet, there are millions who live in the Milwaukee-Chicago corridor, and DO live peacefully.

I posted in this forum a few weeks ago about a man in a tiny town in the South who boarded a school bus one afternoon, and demanded that the bus driver give him three boys. When he refused, the man shot the driver, and strode into the bus and grabbed a young boy. 

He took him to his home and holed up in a bunker he'd built. It took days before the little boy was released, and in the end, both the brave bus driver and the crazy man were dead.

Choose where you will live, based not on fear, but on spending time there and getting a feel for whether or not you find it homelike. One of the members of this forum moved to Ajijic two months ago with his wife, just because they used that very criterion to make their decision.


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## CARamos

Thank you. I appreciate your response. 

During the very short time I've been a part of the Expat Forum, I've witnessed only mutual respect and a spirit of helpfulness, especially on the part of those that have made their home in the Lake Chapala area. 

Thanks again for your thoughts on the subject!


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## BetsyC

Hi Soulfish,

I haven't used the forum much and am still finding my way around. Hope I am replying to the right person. I am the one who talked about her sister moving to San Miguel. Of course she is not comfortable posting her email on a public forum. I did not think that through.

My own impressions of Ajijic when we visited my sister a year ago is that it is a beautiful place with great weather, and very nice people. Most people recommended not swimming in the lake. My sister and her husband (late 50s, early 60s) lived in the village and were friendly with their Mexican neighbors. Nevertheless, every time we went out to a restaurant, there were rarely any Mexicans eating there. There didn't seem to be many young expats there, and we did not see any expat children. I don't know about the school situation, but others have addressed this issue. My sister has information on how to get a "lucrativa" if you need one. She also says that prices in San Miguel are very reasonable right now, lots of real estate and rentals, and that there are a lot of bilingual schools for expat kids. Anyway, she has said that I can excerpt her emails to me. She is busy right now setting up and teaching her calligraphy workshops, and doesn't want to join the forum at this time.

Please let me know if you would like more information, and if what I am proposing is not done on this forum, would somebody please let me know? Thanks!


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## AlanMexicali

BetsyC said:


> Hi Soulfish,
> 
> I haven't used the forum much and am still finding my way around. Hope I am replying to the right person. I am the one who talked about her sister moving to San Miguel. Of course she is not comfortable posting her email on a public forum. I did not think that through.
> 
> My own impressions of Ajijic when we visited my sister a year ago is that it is a beautiful place with great weather, and very nice people. Most people recommended not swimming in the lake. My sister and her husband (late 50s, early 60s) lived in the village and were friendly with their Mexican neighbors. Nevertheless, every time we went out to a restaurant, there were rarely any Mexicans eating there. There didn't seem to be many young expats there, and we did not see any expat children. I don't know about the school situation, but others have addressed this issue. My sister has information on how to get a "lucrativa" if you need one. She also says that prices in San Miguel are very reasonable right now, lots of real estate and rentals, and that there are a lot of bilingual schools for expat kids. Anyway, she has said that I can excerpt her emails to me. She is busy right now setting up and teaching her calligraphy workshops, and doesn't want to join the forum at this time.
> 
> Please let me know if you would like more information, and if what I am proposing is not done on this forum, would somebody please let me know? Thanks!


Mexicans eat their large meal about 3PM so maybe if you go out to eat about 6PM or 7PM the restaurants will be empty. I like to eat out at about 3PM and enjoy the others there more than all by ourselves. Alan


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## TundraGreen

BetsyC said:


> Please let me know if you would like more information, and if what I am proposing is not done on this forum, would somebody please let me know? Thanks!


There is no reason you cannot relay information between the forum and your sister. It doesn't sound to me like it will be an especially useful avenue of communication, but there is no problem with your doing it if your sister and you are comfortable with it.

I concur with AlanMexicali. Empty restaurants can be just a sign that you are not choosing to eat at a popular time which can be different in Mexico than it is in the US/Canada.


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## BetsyC

*Mealtimes*

Thank you TundraGreen. I did reply to AlanMexicali that the restaurants were indeed full at 6 or 7 PM but full of expats. Perhaps they were also full earlier but with Mexicans. I did not check at the time. I'll see if anyone is interested in my sister's comments about SMA, and if so I will post them. Again, thanks!


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## mickisue1

BetsyC said:


> Thank you TundraGreen. I did reply to AlanMexicali that the restaurants were indeed full at 6 or 7 PM but full of expats. Perhaps they were also full earlier but with Mexicans. I did not check at the time. I'll see if anyone is interested in my sister's comments about SMA, and if so I will post them. Again, thanks!


It actually makes more sense to eat your big meal earlier, and, luckily, that's an old fashioned way of eating that's been kept by Mexicans.

Going to bed after a big meal is not the best idea, and it's more sensible to have the food digested and working before then.

A smaller dinner is a great idea. Of course, with the American tradition of working from 9 to five (or, as is more common these days, 8 to 7) it's difficult to get in that mid afternoon dinner.

But if you are retired--why not try it?


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## TSRamos

CARamos said:


> My wife and I are disheartened by the news of the recent, seemingly drug cartel related murders in the Lake Chapala area.
> 
> Given that we’ve thought of retiring in a couple of years to Lake Chapala, this news casts a shadow on our plans. Although we’ve not entirely made up our minds yet, it would be helpful if anyone could shed some light on whether this appears to be a growing concern.
> 
> Aside from another of my wife’s other concerns having to do with the possible prevalence of mosquitoes in Lake Chapala, I would appreciate some feedback on the relative cost of a home there versus San Miguel de Allende. I’ve read that SMA is more expensive in that regard.
> 
> Any thoughts on relative pros and cons of two areas regarding cost of living, weather, etc. would be much appreciated.


My mind is made up !


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## FHBOY

I've just moved into Ajijic after a three year search. I read where CARamos thinks it is dangerous to be here. I came here from Baltimore and feel much safer here than there. The day-to-day life here does not pose any real threats. Yes, the cartels are battling with each other (less now than before the election), but for Expats this does not pose the threat of drive by shootings, random gun owner violence, muggings and beatings that you find in the USA. If your mind is made up, so be it. I'd much rather spend my days here surrounded by people who are enjoying life rather than concerned about when the next druggie or crazy with an assault weapon is going to go out on the street and randomly shoot at me.

And that is the difference, here the randomness of violent crime does not exist on the scale of the USA. The cartels battle each other, but civilians, especially expats, are not involved, and as a matter of fact, expats are specifically not targeted because of the ramifications of it.

If you are looking for bad crime, look back three or four weeks at the "safe" resort town in Mexico, where a group of women were raped and imprisoned, this does not happen here.

Good luck and I hope wherever you retire down here will be the Paradise you are looking for. Mexico, most of it is a great place.


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## soulfish

wow, I haven't checked my post for a bit, Thanks everyone for all the comments and information you have posted.

So after reading this and alot of other info. we are thinking Bucerias, Nayarit might be a better location for us I just hope we can take the summer.

I will be starting a new thread to poll info. on Bucerias.
We will be visiting Chapala this coming winter, who knows maybe we will love it.

thanks again to everyone


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