# Questions regarding moving to Thailand



## Guest

Hi everyone, i am new to this forum. I live in NY area and I am thinking of moving away from the states and start fresh. I have been doing research on Thailand for about a year now. thinking of moving to Phuket and take the teaching course and start teaching and live a very simple life and at least try to keep it as simple as possible. Just gone through a very bad divorce and I hope no one goes through what I went through. If anyone can help me with any ideas and advise i will really appreciate it. Mostly about cost of living (rent, food, commuting, and utilities and other minor expenses that may come up along the way) I am by myself so no kids and adopt pretty good to situations since i have moved around since i was little from country to country till I settled in the states for a few long years now. thank you and I hope you can help me.


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## Guest

Hi and welcome to the forum 

(Don't know what age you are, but in one way at least no kids is good). 

Before getting on to the practical stuff, your kind of situation is 'dangerous'. The thing about Thailand is that it is not only the Land of Smiles, it is also the Land of Dreams, many of which are walking around on two legs in the likes of Phuket, just waiting for the likes of you to come along.

Messy divorces leave most people very vulnerable. You turn up in a place like Thailand, it's like taking a step into a new world - all your problems seem to belong to another reality. Suddenly you are the most handsome, desirable, kind and generous man around. Etc. Your dollar will go a long way, and as for the 'simple life' many set out with the intention of having... well let's just say that it often doesn't quite work out that way.

Now all this stuff I'm sure you already know, But all I'm trying to say is that it will happen to YOU, no matter how well prepared you think you are. Just about every red-blooded male who goes to Thailand with enough money to live well, will find himself twisted around the little finger of a lovely Thai girl within the first month or two. Especially the ones who have gone through a bad experience and need to 'reassert themselves'. No matter how much in control you think you are, no matter how much you think you are just having fun, it will happen, and quicker than you think. And a lot of the girls you will come across more readily around town have seen dozens, hundreds of guys like you. Half your age, maybe? Don't let youth and looks fool you. There's usually one person running the relationship - and it isn't you!

Some people blame the girls - it's easier that way. Me, I think they're the usual mix of good and bad you'll find in any culture, with the difference that in Thailand for many it is a question of survival - for them, maybe for some kids away with the family somewhere too. As often or not they're sending money to Mum and Dad as well.

So unless you are a very good judge of character - and most people are not, especially when emerging from a bad divorce - it's down to pot luck, especially in the early naive days, whether you happen on the kind of girl who is out for a genuine, long-term relationship. There are plenty of them around, but you'll be the last person to be able to tell the difference early on.

Some guys are tough enough to set out just with the intention of having a lot of fun, and stick to that approach, no matter how attractive/streetwise the girl. If you're that kind of guy, you'll be ok, although the reverse side of the coin is that it's not easy to happen on a good relationship that way (if that's what you want).

So have fun, don't get your fingers (or anything else) burnt, hang on to your wallet, don't buy anyone any buffalo/motorbikes/properties, well for a year or so at least (don't laugh, many do).

Well, you did ask for advice!

Cost of living, all that sort of stuff? Give us an idea of your initial budget. Are you are thinking of going for an education visa, taking a course with a view to teaching English later?

Phuket's not the cheapest part of Thailand. If cost is a big factor for you, you might consider less fashionable parts of the country. For example Chiang Mai in the north is cheaper (rentals and other living costs), less foreigners, reasonable teaching opportunities for those with the right qualifications. 

Anyway give us a few more details, and I'm sure more advice will be forthcoming ...


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## Guest

*tx much my friend*



frogblogger said:


> Hi and welcome to the forum
> 
> (Don't know what age you are, but in one way at least no kids is good).
> 
> Before getting on to the practical stuff, your kind of situation is 'dangerous'. The thing about Thailand is that it is not only the Land of Smiles, it is also the Land of Dreams, many of which are walking around on two legs in the likes of Phuket, just waiting for the likes of you to come along.
> 
> Messy divorces leave most people very vulnerable. You turn up in a place like Thailand, it's like taking a step into a new world - all your problems seem to belong to another reality. Suddenly you are the most handsome, desirable, kind and generous man around. Etc. Your dollar will go a long way, and as for the 'simple life' many set out with the intention of having... well let's just say that it often doesn't quite work out that way.
> 
> Now all this stuff I'm sure you already know, But all I'm trying to say is that it will happen to YOU, no matter how well prepared you think you are. Just about every red-blooded male who goes to Thailand with enough money to live well, will find himself twisted around the little finger of a lovely Thai girl within the first month or two. Especially the ones who have gone through a bad experience and need to 'reassert themselves'. No matter how much in control you think you are, no matter how much you think you are just having fun, it will happen, and quicker than you think. And a lot of the girls you will come across more readily around town have seen dozens, hundreds of guys like you. Half your age, maybe? Don't let youth and looks fool you. There's usually one person running the relationship - and it isn't you!
> 
> Some people blame the girls - it's easier that way. Me, I think they're the usual mix of good and bad you'll find in any culture, with the difference that in Thailand for many it is a question of survival - for them, maybe for some kids away with the family somewhere too. As often or not they're sending money to Mum and Dad as well.
> 
> So unless you are a very good judge of character - and most people are not, especially when emerging from a bad divorce - it's down to pot luck, especially in the early naive days, whether you happen on the kind of girl who is out for a genuine, long-term relationship. There are plenty of them around, but you'll be the last person to be able to tell the difference early on.
> 
> Some guys are tough enough to set out just with the intention of having a lot of fun, and stick to that approach, no matter how attractive/streetwise the girl. If you're that kind of guy, you'll be ok, although the reverse side of the coin is that it's not easy to happen on a good relationship that way (if that's what you want).
> 
> So have fun, don't get your fingers (or anything else) burnt, hang on to your wallet, don't buy anyone any buffalo/motorbikes/properties, well for a year or so at least (don't laugh, many do).
> 
> Well, you did ask for advice!
> 
> Cost of living, all that sort of stuff? Give us an idea of your initial budget. Are you are thinking of going for an education visa, taking a course with a view to teaching English later?
> 
> Phuket's not the cheapest part of Thailand. If cost is a big factor for you, you might consider less fashionable parts of the country. For example Chiang Mai in the north is cheaper (rentals and other living costs), less foreigners, reasonable teaching opportunities for those with the right qualifications.
> 
> Anyway give us a few more details, and I'm sure more advice will be forthcoming ...


wEll thanks so much for taking the time, I am 34 and single. one reason i am moving is that i have had totally enough of the way this country runs and deal with situations and the reason i am saying this is because i have had the experince and few of my friends have so it is been kind of tough. another is my divorce and just want to move even if for year just to explore my options since i go tno kids and family it would be a good time. another the US has changed alot this past couple years and it would get even worse and like i said if i can find a little bit quiter life somewhere else i ll do it. yes i have heard of Chiang mai and phuket. I have allso heard that one can rent a small 2 bedroom house for 300 dollars ( i do not know in baht i think it may 9000 baht) close to the beach and cloths and cable and electricity anf food is cheap so i figured i can live pretty simple and relax and maybe go to get few drinks couple days a week with around 600 700 dollars U.S. if i am wrong please corect me and I do appreciate your honesty mate. like to hear from you soon. and one more thing weather wise where is warmer chiang mai or phuket and where a single man like me would be more comfortable both financially and life style. tx


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## King Silk

Hi! Welcome to the Forum.
Froggy has given you some very good advice which you will probably ignore!
Most of us did!!!
Anyway. I suggest you read carefully through all the posts that have gone before. They are a mine of helpful info.
Hope you will contribute to the forum in some way in future.
All the best.


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## Guest

*can not figure out*



King Silk said:


> Hi! Welcome to the Forum.
> Froggy has given you some very good advice which you will probably ignore!
> Most of us did!!!
> Anyway. I suggest you read carefully through all the posts that have gone before. They are a mine of helpful info.
> Hope you will contribute to the forum in some way in future.
> All the best.


What I really love to know and no one can give me a straight answer is that how much does it cost to make urself by that I mean a single 34 man to make a living for himself. Including rent food utilities commting and going out for a dinner and couple drinks per month on a monthly baases. This is the question I keep on asking and no one seems to want to respond or they do no know themselves. So I gt straight to the point honestly how much for a simple life ? Thaanks


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## Guest

Whaaat ??

Um, that's not the way to get information you know. Ask nicely, and when people have the time, they'll respond.

First of all if you have no capital behind you, what qualifications do you have? Teaching jobs that pay a living wage with reputable schools usually look for a combination of TEFL and a degree, or at the very least, one of the two. And it's not a piece of paper that they hand out after a week's course that'll get a decent job.

Accommodation costs at the very minimum 150 USD a month for a small studio flat in town. If you cook for yourself you can live very cheaply. If not it costs more. If you need Western style food rather than Thai, it can cost a helluva lot more. Some people survive on 500 USD a month. Most think they can, but it doesn't work that way, especially at the start when you don't know the system, have travel costs, get ripped off now and again. If you can spend 1000 USD a month you can get by without too much difficulty. And that's a lot more than many teaching jobs pay, by the way.

Teaching jobs pay a pittance. There are virtually no other jobs for people turning up on spec, unless you've got some highly specialised skill that no Thai has - and that rarely happens. Thais keep jobs for the Thais, the only thing they can't do is teach English as spoken by the natives (some of them).


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## Guest

*thanks*

thanks again. Well that shoud give me an idea. The most important thing to me is rent and food since humans need both to survive. I have. A bachelor degree in political science. But no teachin. Experience and I can get that when I arrive there. If ican survive with 700-800 dollars pe month which includes rent food commute some cloths and going out for a beer twice a month that will be great. Thanks very much again but one last thing chiang mai is less cheaper than phuket? And where do u prefer the most in your experience. Thanks mate


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## Acid_Crow

I spend an average 1000 baht/day on living costs. That includes rent/electric food and gas (and beer, ofc). If you then add all the purchases Ive made during the last year, I guess I'm up at around 70-80k baht/month. I live a pretty decent life, but Im in no way rich, and have to be carefull with my spendings. Once I have most of what I need (car, bike, fridge, tv etc.) I recon I will be down at around 30k baht/month. And that, to a falang in a touristy area, is just about existential minimum.


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## Guest

*thanks friend*

So I can start a very regulr and normal life style with 1000 bht a day which is around 30dollars us ? So in average I wuld need about 800 to 1000 month. Is this right? And if u don't mind can I ask u what part do u live and r u an american and is it hard for someone like me to rent a studio or 1 bedroom ? What is required and how does the residency work if I habve a u.s. passport because I heard I have to leave and go across the border every 6months and then come back right away? I appreciate ur input


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## Guest

Krabi's a tourist destination in the south of Thailand, more expensive there than in the likes of Chiang Mai. Anyone can rent a room, if they can pay for it. But you need to get a visa before arrival. There are a whole variety of visas, work visas (which in your situation you won't be able to get) - non-resident visas which means having a lot of spare cash to deposit in a Thai bank - or a tourist visa that only gives you up to three months in the country. Otherwise there's the education visa where you enrol for a course of several months and the school gets the visa for your stay.

The Thais have a visa system that makes sure Thai jobs are kept for Thais in the main, ensure that the bulk of foreign visitors are either retired people who aren't looking for jobs and have a decent minimum pension income and/or sum of money deposited in the bank, tourists looking to stay a maximum of three months, students prepared to pay out a fair sum on courses at Thai education establishments, or workers with genuine specialised skills that are needed. The days are long gone when Westerners could head to Thailand and just bum around. The visa system is making that harder and harder, and prices are going up. It's not as cheap as the likes of Vietnam these days.


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## Serendipity2

shahnameh said:


> So I can start a very regulr and normal life style with 1000 bht a day which is around 30dollars us ? So in average I wuld need about 800 to 1000 month. Is this right? And if u don't mind can I ask u what part do u live and r u an american and is it hard for someone like me to rent a studio or 1 bedroom ? What is required and how does the residency work if I habve a u.s. passport because I heard I have to leave and go across the border every 6months and then come back right away? I appreciate ur input



shahnameh,

The advice from frogblogger and King Silk is sound and the budgets are pretty 'bare bone'. Any fool can live on $3000-$5000 per month but it's a bit harder living on less than $1000 per month but you can do it. Keep in mind that does not include a budget for a girl friend or "pillow". That's optional and can be expensive. Depending on the model, VERY expensive. Many expats think it's worth every baht though. 

If you need to work in order to afford to live in Thailand you may be in for a hard slog as most work/jobs are reserved for Thais as has been pointed out. Better to have enough saved where you don't need to work but then if you stumble across a job all the better. Then you get to live a bit higher on the hog! 

Serendipity2


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## Guest

*thanks*

Do u mind telling me what u do because you sound as it is very hard to get by there mate? I am a new yorker my friend if you can make i t in new york you can make it anywhere. I do not need any little kid suggestions I am 34 bro and trying to start a life and I am done with the days paying for whores and things like that. If u got something useful that can help me or anyone else who is plannning for a move then I ll thank u and say it if not it is best not say anything and let others be a decent human beings and be helpfull. Tx


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## Serendipity2

shahnameh said:


> Do u mind telling me what u do because you sound as it is very hard to get by there mate? I am a new yorker my friend if you can make i t in new york you can make it anywhere. I do not need any little kid suggestions I am 34 bro and trying to start a life and I am done with the days paying for whores and things like that. If u got something useful that can help me or anyone else who is plannning for a move then I ll thank u and say it if not it is best not say anything and let others be a decent human beings and be helpfull. Tx



Huh? Several on the board have given you sound advice. Whether you choose to take it is your affair. As for 'making it' in New York, I lived there for several years - I even worked there for those several years. As for 'paying for whores' I would gently suggest you modify your attitude or it's going to be one very tough slog for you in the LOS. 

In spite of my 'little kid' suggestions I've been to Thailand at least 30 times since 1978 and am old enough to be your daddy. Again, you've been given some very good advice.


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## Guest

And I'll add that the attitude "if you can make it in NY, you can make it anywhere" - while no doubt NY is a tough school - will lead to a rude awakening if taken to foreign parts.

Thais will take great pleasure in taking someone down a whole series of pegs if they turn up with that approach.

Thais do not think that Westerners are owed special respect, that they are superior in any way (on the contrary). They mostly believe that we are a spiritually corrupt bunch, lacking respect and humility, and with a major hangover from colonialist days (the US being an example of the modern version). 

Westerners who want to be accepted in Thailand go to the country in the knowledge that they are guests, respecting Thai culture and customs, in particular the Thai aversion to outspoken, aggressive, noisy, know-it-all attitudes.


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## Serendipity2

frogblogger said:


> And I'll add that the attitude "if you can make it in NY, you can make it anywhere" - while no doubt NY is a tough school - will lead to a rude awakening if taken to foreign parts.
> 
> Thais will take great pleasure in taking someone down a whole series of pegs if they turn up with that approach.
> 
> Thais do not think that Westerners are owed special respect, that they are superior in any way (on the contrary). They mostly believe that we are a spiritually corrupt bunch, lacking respect and humility, and with a major hangover from colonialist days (the US being an example of the modern version).
> 
> Westerners who want to be accepted in Thailand go to the country in the knowledge that they are guests, respecting Thai culture and customs, in particular the Thai aversion to outspoken, aggressive, noisy, know-it-all attitudes.



frogblogger,

The only thing I would add is that treating Thai girls or women like whores or referring to them as such would not be an intelligent move if one wants to remain intact and in Thailand. 

Serendipity2


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## Guest

Serendipity2 said:


> frogblogger,
> 
> The only thing I would add is that treating Thai girls or women like whores or referring to them as such would not be an intelligent move if one wants to remain intact and in Thailand.
> 
> Serendipity2


So true. And it happens too often, I'm afraid. But disrespect can have painful consequences ....


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## Serendipity2

frogblogger said:


> So true. And it happens too often, I'm afraid. But disrespect can have painful consequences ....



frogblogger,

We usually learn more from our mistakes that our successes - especially our 'mistakes' which end in a very painful lesson! Sorry about that Belgian tourist - he but I'll wager he hasn't repeated that stupidity again! He no longer plays the happy organ!


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## KhwaamLap

shahnameh said:


> Do u mind telling me what u do because you sound as it is very hard to get by there mate? ...


A lot of expats here - that are not Teachers/NGOs/Embassy Staff/Working for foreign companies/Oil Riggers/Sailors/Journalists/Living off investments or pensions - do one of two things, they either go "home" for a few months to earn their next year's living expenses or work online (web design/programming/EBay/Writing) off-the-books - They then transfer the money in from the 'home' bank accounts so it appears as investment income.

As you do not seem to like advise, I will leave it here as a direct answer (given that it was not directed at me) - personally I do both the above and am also working towards setting up my own BOI approved company, but that's way too heavy for you yet - more red tape than a ticker-tape parade in Tianemen Square (trust me on that!).


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## stogiebear

shahnameh said:


> What I really love to know and no one can give me a straight answer is that how much does it cost to make urself by that I mean a single 34 man to make a living for himself.


It's been said that there is no such thing as a stupid question, but I don't subscribe to that school of thought.

Let me ask you this... I'm 48 and want to live a good life. How much is it in America... to the nearest dollar?

The reason that your question hasn't been answered is that it can't be.

Who knows what your demands and circumstances are. What works for me might not work for you. Thailand caters to every level of income.

Are you happy living in a house with a toilet that doesn't flush? I was for four years... and the rent was 100 bucks a month. I loved it there.

From the tone of your posts I think you will struggle in Thailand. You have neither the patience or maturity to get along here. It's possible that I may be wrong, but I'm not usually.

But if you are determined, then live here for a few months and keep your return ticket handy. I suspect you'll be back home to momma within a month.


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## stogiebear

QUOTE DELETED BY MOD

*Well, that sure told me!*


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## Guest

*lolol*



stogiebear said:


> *Well, that sure told me!*


 told you what that you sleep in your own ****


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## Serendipity2

(QUOTE DELETED BY MOD)


shahnameh,

I will offer you my best advice which you're free to accept or reject. You will not be happy in Thailand. I've also lived in New York. It's a great city. In my opinion the greatest. The key to success and happiness living in a foreign country is to accept their culture as yours. "When in Rome do as the Romans" is so very true and not just in Rome. Come to Thailand but come willing to embrace their culture - which is a heck of a lot older that yours or mine by the way but if you can't be gracious to them you will not be happy nor will you be welcome. It isn't about pleasing a bunch of expats on this forum but in respecting another culture. Those who thrive here do and they do not do so by trying to be superior. All that will get is some very hard knocks which will be delivered with relish by the Thais. Best of luck to you.

Serendipity2


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## stogiebear

shahnameh said:


> I do not judge anyone so I do not like to be judged...


If this is the case then definitely save yourself a lot of disappointment and stay at home.

Thailand is very much a 'style over substance' social structure. It doesn't matter how clever you are - if your tie is crooked then you may as well stay at home.

You WILL be judged on everything you do from how you dress and eat to what company you keep.

The results of these 'judgements' may not manifest themselves immediately but they will eventually and you will suffer as a result.

I'll give you an example... I have a friend who was a teacher at a nice school. He was enthusiastic and capable in the classroom. But he was passed over for promotion because... he was seen entering a girly bar! Eventually the cold shoulder proved too much for him and he quit.

Another friend of mine who also happened to be a teacher was asked by a student how much he drank...

He replied "About four beers a day!" When he got back from the class he was given his notice and told not to come back. The student had misunderstood the teacher and thought that he drank four beers *during *the day!

You will be judged on your color. Are you black? Forget it. Last week at the mall I saw a black guy go to a tailor to get a new garment altered to fit him... it was just the blank stare and eventually he gave uip and moved on.

If you are a smoker then forget the dating scene. Nice girls won't date smokers. 

You're a big man not judging anyone, but in Thailand you are just dirty white trash... as am I.

The difference is that I can live with it. I don't think that you ever could.

Get over your divorce and think about starting a new life in more familiar surroundings before you swan off into a culture that you neither understand or are willing to tolerate.

And, incidentally, people in Thailand have cleaner bums that you Yanks. Even those of us who have non flushing loos! Let's face it - expats who have been here a while don't use paper anymore... or leaves!

It's water hoses all the way, right chaps?


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## Guest

stogiebear said:


> It's water hoses all the way, right chaps?


Spot on, stogiebear. And far more hygienic it is too!


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## flemmie

*Hello*

Just a timid hello from a Belgian ready to move to Bangkok (with my wife). Not the belgian from your story (thank god...).

I just wanted to say that I think you are all very patient with someone that has obviously no desire to adapt to the circumstances that he will come to. Kudo's for that.

I could not read his replies but the fact that they were deleted tells me enough.

Have a nice one!:clap2:


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## Guest

Hi again flemmie - yes rule no. 1 here is "Be nice"! The forum's there so that people can help out, not insult each other... 

And for anyone who's not sure what stogiebear was on about ref cleanliness of bums, even in the simplest of homes you find this:



... on which topic I once wrote:



> When you visit Thailand for the first time, you may be surprised to find something that resembles a shower hose, complete with high pressure nozzle, attached to the wall of the bathroom, next to the toilet. You would be excused for wondering what purpose this could possibly serve.
> 
> The little lever or button is indeed for releasing a powerful jet of water, so should you be tempted to experiment as you meditate from a sitting down position, make sure to point the device at a distant wall (nearby targets tend to have a ricochet effect, and are likely to result in you emerging from your contemplations looking as if you forgot to get undressed before taking a shower). And it goes without saying that you shouldn't squeeze the lever while looking directly into the nozzle. The main purpose of this device is to avoid having to apply reams of toilet paper to the posterior, with potentially rather smelly, all-too-common consequences amongst Westerners. Used with skill - posterior showering sitting down takes some mastery, and to avoid embarrassment it is best practised within the safety of your hotel bathroom until you get the hang of it - it is a vast improvement on the toilet paper alternative. For obvious reasons it results in the sort of rear end cleanliness only rivalled by the French with their bidets.
> 
> A few tips for the uninitiated.
> 
> - In unfamiliar surroundings it may be worth first testing the water pressure with a quick single downwards burst into the toilet bowel. However, excessively powerful jets can have undesirable effects, so do so before spending a penny.
> 
> - Ensure you have the nozzle pointing in the right direction. Somewhere between an inch and a couple of inches is the correct firing range.
> 
> - Bear in mind that Thai plumbing often involves the routing of the cold water pipe through outside areas exposed to direct sunlight. During daylight hours therefore, be prepared to rapidly abort the operation, should the water temperature suddenly begins to climb. A maximum cold water temperature of boiling point is possible in these tropical climes.
> 
> - For the sake of those who may visit the bathroom after your departure, do try to avoid skin contact between nozzle and rear passage.
> 
> - Ok, here goes, fire.
> 
> - Please bear in mind that this is not the Thai version of an enema wash. Consequently a short burst of between five and ten seconds is usually ample, irrespective of any pleasure you might be experiencing.
> 
> - Ladies of course have the excuse to use this device rather more frequently than men. Whether your sex lives are wanting or not, and irrespective of whether the sensations involved are somewhat more exciting than those produced by earlier activities of an intimate nature with your partner, please bear in mind that a growing queue of desperate people may be waiting outside.
> 
> - Finally, the the disposal basket marked with words to the effect of "please place your used toilet paper in here and not in the bowel" is for the benefit of those who have used this implement to good effect, and not for those squeamish Anglo-Saxons who prefer the old-fashioned, if smelly way of cleaning the posterior.
> 
> Once you've got into the habit of using this device, you'll never want to go back to your old ways, believe me. You'll be looking around the local plumbing supply outlets for one to take home with you ... Have fun!


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## flemmie

*Nice tool...*



frogblogger said:


> Hi again flemmie - yes rule no. 1 here is "Be nice"! The forum's there so that people can help out, not insult each other...
> 
> And for anyone who's not sure what stogiebear was on about ref cleanliness of bums, even in the simplest of homes you find this:
> 
> 
> 
> ... on which topic I once wrote:


Here I am thinking how clever thailand is attaching a hose to clean the bowl better... Moving on the 26th, using the tool on the 27th, take a step aside please.:rain:


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## Serendipity2

frogblogger said:


> Spot on, stogiebear. And far more hygienic it is too!



frogblogger and stogiebear,

I admit that using the hose IS far more sanitary than using paper but I think the best is the french bidet. What I have against "the hose" is snaking it beneath my posterior to do the deed. Have either of you taken a peek at the bottom of your average seat? Pretty gross. The second best system I encountered has been the Arab or "hamman" system. First you squat rather than sit, facing the little hood wiht your feet on either side of "the drop zone" [they also have regular water closets where the same protocol is observed] In front of you, to the right is a big bucket or barrel of water and a bowl floating in the water. To put it delicately you grasp the bowl in your right hand - NEVER the left - and pour water onto your left hand which then is used to 'refresh' yourself. The bidet IS easier but the Arab/hamman approach is far superior to either the paper or the "little hose". If the toilet area were kept clean that little hose would be great but that area is rarely clean and God only knows the intelligence of the prior users. Give me the floating bowl! I never did think I would be engaging is the discussion of bowel and bowl habits. Every day like a box of chocolate - you never know what you're going to get.


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## Guest

My memories of the hammam are rather less pleasant. In particular, they include being squashed flat by a 150 kilo Tunisian lady using something that felt like sandpaper on my back. Give me a Thai massage any day...


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## Serendipity2

frogblogger said:


> My memories of the hammam are rather less pleasant. In particular, they include being squashed flat by a 150 kilo Tunisian lady using something that felt like sandpaper on my back. Give me a Thai massage any day...



frogblogger,

I've not had the dubious "pleasure" of being squashed flat by a 150 kilo Tunisian lady and I would agree a Thai massage is infinitely superior. I still do prefer, once I got the hang of it, of using the Eastern style hammam with the barrel of water and the bowl. Not keen about aiming a high pressure hose and my bum whether hot or cold is coming out of the nozzle. Still a bidet is much more civilized even though I've not had the experience.


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## Guest

Serendipity2 said:


> Not keen about aiming a high pressure hose and my bum whether hot or cold is coming out of the nozzle.


There are rumours to the effect that one can get quite addicted to the sensation 

Bidets are actually going out of fashion in France. Less and less people bother with them when installing a new bathroom.


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## Serendipity2

frogblogger said:


> There are rumours to the effect that one can get quite addicted to the sensation
> 
> Bidets are actually going out of fashion in France. Less and less people bother with them when installing a new bathroom.



frogblogger,

The French are gravitating toward paper? It's hard to believe they would give up bidets. Or are they opting for the high pressure hose treatment? Talk about getting a 'blast' going to the loo!


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## Serendipity2

frogblogger said:


> There are rumours to the effect that one can get quite addicted to the sensation
> 
> Bidets are actually going out of fashion in France. Less and less people bother with them when installing a new bathroom.




frogblogger,

I've got to ask you about your avatar [guess that's what that is] It looks like a calf licking the neck/cheek of a young girl. My guess would be a young Thai girl about 5-6 years old? Is that a good guess - or do you recommend I visit an optometrist?


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## Guest

I'm afraid it's the latter, it's a very large Beaufort cow high up in the French Savoie Alps, licking a very bristly male with extremely un-six-year-old-like wrinkly skin, sad to say. The six year old was the one taking the photo, and she's French.

I think _la vache_ took a fancy to me because I'd been climbing for a couple of hours, and salt is at a premium in high Alpine pastures 

(Yes, the French, especially the younger generations, very rarely use a bidet, I'm afraid).


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## Serendipity2

frogblogger said:


> I'm afraid it's the latter, it's a very large Beaufort cow high up in the French Savoie Alps, licking a very bristly male with extremely un-six-year-old-like wrinkly skin, sad to say. The six year old was the one taking the photo, and she's French.
> 
> I think _la vache_ took a fancy to me because I'd been climbing for a couple of hours, and salt is at a premium in high Alpine pastures
> 
> (Yes, the French, especially the younger generations, very rarely use a bidet, I'm afraid).



frogblogger,

Well at least I know a cow's tongue when I see one! What the cow is licking doesn't look like a bristly old male with wrinkly skin [English at that] but if you say so! You may not have good taste but you do taste good - at least to a cow! 

Sorry to hear the French are descending in terms of their personal hygiene. Now they're becoming more like their English and American cousins. Is nothing sacred? :/


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## hoodon

shahnameh said:


> Hi everyone, i am new to this forum. I live in NY area and I am thinking of moving away from the states and start fresh. I have been doing research on Thailand for about a year now......


I have read the excellent advice given by frogblogger and others, could I offer a little more. I would suggest that you take an extended vacation to Thailand and do a little bit of on site research, then beat it back to America and take stock. Check out one of the islands then perhaps Pattaya, Bangkok, Udon Thani, Nong Khai and Chiang Mai. Give yourself a good broad look at the Land of Smiles and see what is you. All the locations offer what is good and bad about the LOS and it would give you a much better idea of a budget plan plus a good grounding in streetwise Thailand tact. Slowly, slowly realize your dream.


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## saintlypan

Thailand is a very interesting place, the only problem that I had when I visited the country was the language barrier. Although riding the tuktuk was quite an interesting experience.


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