# Retirement - Mexico or Spain



## dudleymartin15

We have been doing a fair amount of research but cannot decide - Mexico or Spain.
We are living (and recently retired working) in the USA - I am US/British and my wife is British.
Medical cost in the US are horrendous so that is a major factor.
Reports seem to show similar COL when you look at all factors. Distance is a consideration with family in the US and any moving costs.
Appreciate any comments and experience.


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## TundraGreen

dudleymartin15 said:


> We have been doing a fair amount of research but cannot decide - Mexico or Spain.
> We are living (and recently retired working) in the USA - I am US/British and my wife is British.
> Medical cost in the US are horrendous so that is a major factor.
> Reports seem to show similar COL when you look at all factors. Distance is a consideration with family in the US and any moving costs.
> Appreciate any comments and experience.


Have you visited both? They are very different in climate, culture, really in every way escept language. Even the language is quite different. I am surprised if the cost of living is really similar. My experience is that it is quite different. I have visited Spain numerous times for up to a month, but I haven't lived there.

I would think the most important consideration would be which one you liked best.


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## dudleymartin15

Thanks.
The only data I have on COL is the International Living 2014 guide when you take all the factors and does show similar.
We have visited both but just on holiday. Next step is to spend more time.


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## Hound Dog

Well.that´s an easy one for me. While I am a native of Alabama, my wife is a native of France; just up te road from Spain and we could have retired to Alabama, a very nice place to spend one´s latter years in retirement, or France - probably in the south of that country, we chose Mexico after mulling over Europe - mostly Spain, Italy or Portugal - for a time. We also considered the Gulf Coast of Alabama or Florida, perhaps Arizona or New Mexico.. California was out for tax reasons although a very fine place that is. We ended up choosing Mexico over all of those places and the choice was easy after we gave these choices some thought.

Spain is mostly a dull, flat, torrid plain except for parts of the northwest where copious rains are common. The cities are, for the most part, unexceptional and fairly expensive these days and the cuisine is unremarkable.The two coasts have some nice beaches but little to write home about. In much of the country, the climate can be a challenge. Often cold winters and sometimes very hot summers. Few highlands of note. People who are often rudely abrupt speaking an unpleasant sounding staccato style nof Spanish very different from the "sing-song" Spanish of Mexico.

Mexico, on the other hand, has endless miles of beautiful beaches on four seas; the Gulf,Caribbean, Pacific and Sea of Cortez. All unique from each other and offering incomparable beachside living, If that doesn´t please you, there are highlands on the vast plateau offering places to live from 2,000 to 12,000 feet with (especially at the level of 5,000 feet more or less), splendid high plain tropical living where it rarely gets either cold or hot. If you like normal temperatures at about 75F degrees you will have reached heaven. If you don´t like tropical beaches or moderate highlands, there are places high in the clouds with spectacular views and bracing temperatures. Mexico also has vast deserts with the choice of big cities or isolated wilderness among the cactus and other desert foliage.

A microcosm of earth as a whole except, perhaps, the arctic or antarctic. An incredibly beautiful place where you can choose the climate and topography that pleases you personally. Try that in most places on the planet.

If there were ever an easy choice between splendid Mexico and unremarkable Spain; you have it.


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## Hound Dog

Sorry, dudley but I should have addressed the issue of the costs of medical care in the U.S. versus Mexico or, for that matter, much of Europe if one is not covered by social security after having had a lifelong career there (at least in France) We each have major, unlimited, medical insurance in Mexico which also partially covers us in the U.S. and Guatemala. Insurance or no insurance, I promise you the cost of significant medical care in Mexico is a _*tiny*_ fraction of that cost in the U.S. and; get this, except for vital organ transplants which are not popular in Mexico; the medical care, at least in the big cities such as Mexico City, Guadalajara and Monterrey, is often far superior to that you would receive in either the U.S or Europe and the doctors even know your name and chat amacably. I had my gall bladder removed on an emergency basis in the small, isolated city of San Cristóbal de Las Casas in a filthy hospital and, even without insurance the cost was nothing compared to the U.S. and, here, five years later, I´m writing to you about it and as healthy as I´ve ever been. In France they just tried to kill my elderly mother-in-law. with careless prescription pain medications. And, unlike France, the sun almost always shines here year round at about 24C. I popped out of the womb where my mother happened to live and worked where I had to work. As soon as I could cross that border at Nogales, I was out of there. I don´t know about tomorrow but 14 years later I´m still cruisiing.


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## dudleymartin15

Thank you for such a comprehensive reply.
We are up for another visit. We did visit Lake Chapala a few years ago but it really didn't suit us. We are looking at a visit to Merida in the near future. We have also visited Spain and I can see there are many difference.
We have friends in Spain and my wife favors there and since we are entitled to the medical via the UK there are benefits. I favor Mexico. So you can see my dilemma. A happy wife ........ So another visit to both is on the cards.


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## Longford

Hound Dog said:


> ... the medical care, at least in the big cities such as Mexico City, Guadalajara and Monterrey, is often far superior to that you would receive in either the U.S or Europe and the doctors even know your name and chat amacably.


I can't imagine anyone familiar with healthcare in the USA and Mexico would make such a statement.


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## AlanMexicali

Longford said:


> I can't imagine anyone familiar with healthcare in the USA and Mexico would make such a statement.


http://www.expatforum.com/expats/me...r-hospital-diagnostic-experiences-mexico.html

Let´s not "tear up" another thread. The OP might want real answers to his original questions.


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## michmex

Longford said:


> I can't imagine anyone familiar with healthcare in the USA and Mexico would make such a statement.


Plus One to the Count


I have more healthcare experience than I would prefer to have in both countries. The care I received at Hospital ABC in Mexico City (1997) was at least equivalent to and in some aspects superior to the care I have received at major (highly rated) hospitals in the USA. The quality of the specialists and surgeons also was also excellent.

The major difference I encountered was with the availability of specialists in Mexico City. I doubt that I would have had the immediate access to equivalent specialists and surgeons in the USA that I had here. All of my doctors received their basic medical training in Mexico. Their advanced training was, not only in Mexico, but also in France, Spain and the USA at such hospitals as John Hopkins and the Mayo Clinic.

The training of doctors and quality of care one receives at the various clinics is adequate here but is more akin to what one would receive from a Nurse Practitioner or a Physician's Assistant in the USA.

Although I have no experience with the IMSS system in Mexico, I would like to note that most of my doctors and specialists also practiced within the IMSS system. After making their early morning rounds at Hospital ABC they would attend to their IMSS patients.


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## Longford

AlanMexicali said:


> http://www.expatforum.com/expats/me...r-hospital-diagnostic-experiences-mexico.html
> 
> Let´s not "tear up" another thread. The OP might want real answers.


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## AlanMexicali

Longford said:


>


Another example of your psychological projection.


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## Hound Dog

_


Longford said:



I can't imagine anyone familiar with healthcare in the USA and Mexico would make such a statement. 

Click to expand...

_Well, Dawg is familiar with the healthcare system in the U.S., France and Mexico among other places - some of them subsisting organizationally as virtual charnel houses. Our last place in which we utilized the health care slystem in the U.S. was in the San Francisco Bay Area in California. Obscenely expensive and impersonal HMOs with doctors (never saw a nurse) judged on rapid turnover. These inept institurions with inept doctors nearly killed one of us in the city of Oakland some 40 years ago and probably would have had the victim not regained conciousness and cut them off. When we arrived in Mexico and visited a doctor in Guadalajara, we were amazed that he actually took a personal interest in us or at least seemed to do so. 

When my wife and I retired in 2001 and were no longer affilliated with any major employer in the U.S., even though both of us were corporate level executives for many years, our health care costs for tht same sorry HMO went thrugh the roof and that was for dormitory accomodations in some crappy hospital run by Káiser Permanente. On top of that, the promised health care in that hospital was at best amateurish.

Here, for a small fraction of what we paid in the U.S., we receive unlimited health care in the finest hospitals in Mexico in private suites (and even quite good food) with care from top local doctors and it´s all paid by AXA with a $30,000 Peso deductible. As I get older and more vulnerable, I say you could not drag me back to that U.S. for ripoff medical care of marginal quality.


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## Hound Dog

_


Longford said:











Click to expand...

_It is, in my opinión, an inexcusble cheap shot to call someone a troll because that person´s opinión differs from one´s own. If one wishes to take such a bold step, present meaningful criteria for having made that assessment. If those criteria are not supportable, issue a thoughtful rejoinder or, perhaps, suffer in silence.


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## lagoloo

I have to agree with Hound Dog's assessment of medical care in the U.S., having had some very negative experiences there. So far, I haven't needed to test the competence of the Mexican doctors or hospitals for anything serious. Fingers crossed.

Now, about the OP's original matter: I'm just guessing, but I think both parties might want to spend some time in San Miguel de Allende, which in many ways is quite different from the Chapala area. I lived there for three years before moving to the Lake Chapala area and found the cultural scene, the scenery and the well preserved old buildings added to the "quality of life". The negatives are: cold winters, expensive housing in the central area and cost of dining out higher than the Lake Chapala area. 
All things considered, I'd advise a visit there before choosing Spain.


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## Longford

lagoloo said:


> All things considered, I'd advise a visit there before choosing Spain.


I think the ease of getting to Spain, the favorable exchange rate and the weather ... all combined, gives it a leg-up on Mexico. Most members of my family in Ireland always vacation and spend extended periods of time in Spain ... but rarely visit the USA, or Mexico, etc. They cite low-cost airfare, low cost lodging. On the other hand, many Mexicans I know who've traveled to Spain think the country is inferior to Mexico in many ways.


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## TundraGreen

Longford said:


> I think the ease of getting to Spain, the favorable exchange rate and the weather ... all combined, gives it a leg-up on Mexico.


When you say "ease of access", I assume you mean from Britain. It was not clear to me how much time the Original Posters spent in the US versus Britain, so it is not clear to me which is "easier to access".

I will have to be convinced that exchange rates offset the higher costs of living in Spain versus Mexico.

Finally, you need to tell me where the good weather is in Spain. I have walked from the Pyrenees to Santiago twice and from Sevilla to Astorga once, and shorter walks at other times and places in Spain, I have never encountered anywhere that compared to Mexico for weather, if you define good weather as not-too-cold, not-too-hot, not-too-humid, and not-too-much-rain/snow.


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## RVGRINGO

Since the OP‘s wife is reported to prefer Spain, “ease of access“, may have a different connotation.


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## Longford

TundraGreen said:


> When you say "ease of access", I assume you mean from Britain. It was not clear to me how much time the Original Posters spent in the US versus Britain, so it is not clear to me which is "easier to access".


It seems I overlooked this important comment from the OP:



> We are living (and recently retired working) in the USA





TundraGreen said:


> Finally, you need to tell me where the good weather is in Spain.


Compared to Winter weather where my family is in Ireland, in in some of the places I've visited in England ... I don't think it's difficult to find "good weather" in parts of Spain. "Good", like "beauty" ... is in the eye of the beholder.

But I'll agree with you that for someone already living in the USA, Mexico would likely prevail when it comes to items in the "plus" column.


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## Hound Dog

[_QUOTE=TundraGreen;5775753]When you say "ease of access", I assume you mean from Britain. It was not clear to me how much time the Original Posters spent in the US versus Britain, so it is not clear to me which is "easier to access".

I will have to be convinced that exchange rates offset the higher costs of living in Spain versus Mexico.

Finally, you need to tell me where the good weather is in Spain. I have walked from the Pyrenees to Santiago twice and from Sevilla to Astorga once, and shorter walks at other times and places in Spain, I have never encountered anywhere that compared to Mexico for weather, if you define good weather as not-too-cold, not-too-hot, not-too-humid, and not-too-much-rain/snow.[/QUOTE]_

OK, TG, you have intrigued me. Brigitte, some of whose familly lives in or near the Pyranees, keeps mildly insisting that this pilgrimage is a hike we should take from France to San uan Campostelo but, at 73, I find that I lack enthusiasm for that adventure. Was that one of your hikes and, are you a Young chap or an old fat man as am I?

When I was 29, I hiked up Kilamanjaro an even then tht was a bit tiresome but today I find it a bit taxing to walk to the local WalMart. Despite one´s desires oherwise, one does age and that has its inhibitions.


.


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## TundraGreen

Hound Dog said:


> OK, TG, you have intrigued me. Brigitte, some of whose familly lives in or near the Pyranees, keeps mildly insisting that this pilgrimage is a hike we should take from France to Santiago de Campostelo but, at 73, I find that I lack enthusiasm for that adventure. Was that one of your hikes and, are you a Young chap or an old fat man as am I?
> 
> When I was 29, I hiked up Kilamanjaro an even then tht was a bit tiresome but today I find it a bit taxing to walk to the local WalMart. Despite one´s desires oherwise, one does age and that has its inhibitions.


You should go for it. I am not an old man like you. I'm only 69, at least for a few more months .

I walked from St Jeans Pied de Port, on the French side of the Pyrenees to Santiago de Compostela the first time in 1996. Then I walked it again in 2012. In 2013, I walked from Sevilla to Astorga on the Via de la Plata, an older route that was also followed by pilgrims to Santiago. Those walks were around 700-800 km. I have done some other long walks in other countries, most recently the Lycian Way in Turkey.

There are people of all ages, sizes and shapes on the Camino. The Camino Frances from St Jeans Pied de Port is very popular and there are lots of people. The other routes provide a more solitary experience. It depends on what you are looking for. It is not everyone's cup of tea, but it is my recreation in retirement with sufficient time to indulge.


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## Detailman

Hound Dog said:


> TundraGreen said:
> 
> 
> 
> When you say "ease of access", I assume you mean from Britain. It was not clear to me how much time the Original Posters spent in the US versus Britain, so it is not clear to me which is "easier to access". I will have to be convinced that exchange rates offset the higher costs of living in Spain versus Mexico. Finally, you need to tell me where the good weather is in Spain. I have walked from the Pyrenees to Santiago twice and from Sevilla to Astorga once, and shorter walks at other times and places in Spain, I have never encountered anywhere that compared to Mexico for weather, if you define good weather as not-too-cold, not-too-hot, not-too-humid, and not-too-much-rain/snow.
> 
> 
> 
> OK, TG, you have intrigued me. Brigitte, some of whose familly lives in or near the Pyranees, keeps mildly insisting that this pilgrimage is a hike we should take from France to San uan Campostelo but, at 73, I find that I lack enthusiasm for that adventure. Was that one of your hikes and, are you a Young chap or an old fat man as am I? When I was 29, I hiked up Kilamanjaro an even then tht was a bit tiresome but today I find it a bit taxing to walk to the local WalMart. Despite one´s desires oherwise, one does age and that has its inhibitions. .
Click to expand...

Hound Dog,

Be careful of Tundras reply below. He not only can walk 700-800 KM but on a yearly basis normally RUNS a marathon of 42.6 KM. I have been running for 20 years but still haven't done a marathon. My cardiologist, who is a triathlete, doesn't feel it would be wise although I have done up to 30 KM -- but not on a regular basis or even in the last few years. 10KM is more my speed.

Tundra is a machine!!

Sent from my iPhone using ExpatForum


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## Detailman

That should have read: Tundras reply above.

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## Detailman

TundraGreen,

We are the same age but I won't race you.

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## TundraGreen

Detailman said:


> TundraGreen,
> 
> We are the same age but I won't race you.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using ExpatForum


You would win in any race unless it was really long. I have never had any speed, but since I was a kid I have always had a lot of endurance. I think endurance is mostly mental, speed actually requires physical ability which no one ever accused me of.


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## Detailman

TundraGreen said:


> You would win in any race unless it was really long. I have never had any speed, but since I was a kid I have always had a lot of endurance. I think endurance is mostly mental, speed actually requires physical ability which no one ever accused me of.


No-one would ever accuse me of being speedy. 

But I do not know any marathoners (and I know quite a few) who are not physically fit unless they are simply walking the marathon. 

A marathon is an accomplishment in itself that takes physical strength AND mental endurance. Do not sell yourself short. 

I would suggest that the next time someone gets in their car they should log off 42.6 KM and visualize yourself running it. It is scary!!

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## sunnyvmx

I once walked the Appalachian Trail, 2200 plus miles, up and down mountains from Georgia to Maine. It took 6 months and I carried 30 to 50 lbs. depending on how far it was to the next town. I tried twice more, but age and poor feet had taken it's toll so I only competed 800 miles before calling it quits. When I look back, I can hardly believe I did it and now I'm happy the scooter gets me to Walmart.


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## TundraGreen

sunnyvmx said:


> I once walked the Appalachian Trail, 2200 plus miles, up and down mountains from Georgia to Maine. It took 6 months and I carried 30 to 50 lbs. depending on how far it was to the next town. I tried twice more, but age and poor feet had taken it's toll so I only competed 800 miles before calling it quits. When I look back, I can hardly believe I did it and now I'm happy the scooter gets me to Walmart.


That is impressive. The longest I have ever walked was one month.


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## Hound Dog

I am trying to think as to what on of my accomplishments walking may have been. When I was 29 I climbed Mount Kilimanjaro from Moshi, Tanzania at 5,000 feet to the mountain´s peak at 18,000 feet and that was a vigorous five day and steep hike but that was enough for me and when I got back to the mountain´base and found a nice bar, I got loaded on Tanzanian beer. I did a few other hikes such as this years ago but I have always found the highlight of each hike to have been the cold beer or rum at its culmination. 

My favorite hike was when, while walking (because I was quite poor at the time) from the fancy lodge to a tent encampment at Murchinson Falls National Park in Uganda back in 1969, I rounded a tree and spooked an African Buffalo - perhaps the most dangerous and unpleasant animal on the planet.. That was one pissed-off buffalo but my African companion accompanying me told me that the only way to escape the situation was tp stare down the buffalo and keep walking directly at him as, otherrwise, should we try to run away. he would run us down and stomp us to death. At the last minute, that buffalo, walked away and let us by which is the reason I´m here to recall the event.


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## ojosazules11

Hound Dog said:


> My favorite hike was when, while walking (because I was quite poor at the time) from the fancy lodge to a tent encampment at Murchinson Falls National Park in Uganda back in 1969, I rounded a tree and spooked an African Buffalo - perhaps the most dangerous and unpleasant animal on the planet.. That was one pissed-off buffalo but my African companion accompanying me told me that the only way to escape the situation was to stare down the buffalo and keep walking directly at him as, otherrwise, should we try to run away. he would run us down and stomp us to death. At the last minute, that buffalo, walked away and let us by which is the reason I´m here to recall the event.


I think there is a metaphor for life contained somewhere in the above ...

Aw, what the heck. Pass the tequila!


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