# Driving in Mexico City



## michmex

Driving in the D. F. can certainly be an experience. Below is a link from a "Los Angeles Times" article dated June 12, 2013 "Driver's ed in Mexico City: White knuckles all the way"

From the article, "Mexico City doesn't require adults to pass an exam for a driver's license, but there are driving schools for 'nervous people' who are afraid of the wild roads."

Driver's ed in Mexico City: White-knuckling all the way - latimes.com

Of interest to expats in the D. F. who may not yet have a Mexican driver's license, the article mentions that some sort of driving test may be reinstated in 2014.


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## Longford

While not for the faint of heart, I've always thought the claims that driving a car in Mexico City was one of the most dangerous things one could do in a lifetime. If someone has driven in Chicago, Los Angeles, New York, London or other huge cities ... the only difference is the signs are in Spanish. And therein lies the challenge for foreigners: sufficiently studying city/expressway maps and learning some Spanish. Oh ... and avoiding the notoriously corrupt traffic police.


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## Hound Dog

Imagine the L.A. Times writing of the dangers or driving in Mexico City. The pot and the kettle there and I lived in L.A. for a while so I am familiar with that place.

We don´t go through Mexico City any more since they opened the Arco Norte bypass from Lake Chapala to Puebla but used to drive through the heart of that city between Santa Fe and Ixtpaluca several times every year since about 2004 driving between Lake Chapala and Chiapas . Admittedly, it´s a bit anarchic and has some seriously crooked cops but once you have Mexican license plates and respect the "Hoy No Circula" rules, it is not a problem. The worst city to drive in in Mexico in my experience is Oaxaca. Thousands of hillbillies trying to get nowhere fast and rudely.


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## AlanMexicali

Longford said:


> While not for the faint of heart, I've always thought the claims that driving a car in Mexico City was one of the most dangerous things one could do in a lifetime. If someone has driven in Chicago, Los Angeles, New York, London or other huge cities ... the only difference is the signs are in Spanish. And therein lies the challenge for foreigners: sufficiently studying city/expressway maps and learning some Spanish. Oh ... and avoiding the notoriously corrupt traffic police.


You forgot to mention the taxistas cutting directly across 3 lanes to tag a fare on the sidewalk. Without knowing what they are capable of doing a tourist will be hit. Locals know them well.


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## maesonna

I found the article very accurate!

I have one offspring who learned to drive here in Mexico City. Somehow my nerves survived, but it seems that I don’t have enough guts left to guide the younger two (who do hold their test-less licenses) to full competence.

Also of note, I haven’t seen any driving schools here that *don’t* advertise themselves as being for nervous drivers. As the article points out, it’s almost the entire market segment.

As for getting around, it’s not only that the signs are in Spanish, but that they often lack logic — as do many features of highway design. You think you’ve got it all figured out, having studied the map carefully online or on paper, but when you’re actually there on the road at 80 km/h, you’re confronted with some illogical quirk of the intersection or interchange that the map didn’t warn you about, and suddenly (as you’re whipping closer to the decision point) you can’t tell which is the main road and which is the exit, and the sign muddies the choice even further instead of making it clear.


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## ehw23

AlanMexicali said:


> You forgot to mention the taxistas cutting directly across 3 lanes to tag a fare on the sidewalk. Without knowing what they are capable of doing a tourist will be hit. Locals know them well.



What about city buses crossing 3 lanes just to tag a fare? 
I gotta admit...thats impressive. Even though it pisses me off.. they are pretty good at doing it. its obviously illegal to do in the states so we dont get to have much practice doing that...but its amazing how people use their vehicles as shields!

As long as you know where you are going...its not crazy at all. The moment you start to show your 'tourist' side off in traffic...the people will let you know! 



Road signs are NOTHING like the US..thats why I say you must know where you are going or youre screwed


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## citlali

Anyone thinking that Mexico is a tough city or wild city to drive in has never been to Bangkok or others cities in the Far East or in the Middle East. .
Mexico city has its quirks but really nothing to be scared about. What you need there is a savy co-pilot as directions are terrible, the logic if there s any is different so you need a strong sense of direction and an idea of where the main streets, roads, ejes are.
We got lots plenty of times driving through there, but eventually you get where you are going.


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## mexikatz

I've had 3 experiences driving through Mexico City and each time I got so lost I had my wife hop in cab which I then followed to our destination.

When we moved down here in January I was pulling a trailer. It was an experience driving THAT through Mexico City. I got pulled over at one point but fortunately I had obtained a permit to drive through the city any day of the week.


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## Hound Dog

[_QUOTE=ehw23;1202378]What about city buses crossing 3 lanes just to tag a fare? 
I gotta admit...thats impressive. Even though it pisses me off.. they are pretty good at doing it. its obviously illegal to do in the states so we dont get to have much practice doing that...but its amazing how people use their vehicles as shields!
As long as you know where you are going...its not crazy at all. The moment you start to show your 'tourist' side off in traffic...the people will let you know! 
Road signs are NOTHING like the US..thats why I say you must know where you are going or youre screwed[/QUOTE]_

Guadalajara bus drivers routinely run over and kill pedestrians and demolish other vehicles and since I have lived in Metro Guadalajara starting in 2001, these irresponsible creeps who speed recklessly and run red lights at random , have never to my knowwledge ever been cited, lost a job or spent even so much as an hour in jail as a result of the carnage they cause on the roads of that city. You accidentally step out on the curb in Guadalajara and get flattened by a bus and you are history. The bus driver loses no sleep and gets no demerits. Once, when the city tried to curtail this carnage, the bus drivers´union blocked all access streets into centro until the city backed down. Justice in Mexico is a joke. You are on your own. Get used to it or leave. As for me, I´ll stay. Earth is a violent place and then you die.


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## Isla Verde

Hound Dog said:


> [
> 
> Guadalajara bus drivers routinely run over and kill pedestrians and demolish other vehicles and since I have lived in Metro Guadalajara starting in 2001, these irresponsible creeps who speed recklessly and run red lights at random , have never to my knowwledge ever been cited, lost a job or spent even so much as an hour in jail as a result of the carnage they cause on the roads of that city. You accidentally step out on the curb in Guadalajara and get flattened by a bus and you are history. The bus driver loses no sleep and gets no demerits. Once, when the city tried to curtail this carnage, the bus drivers´union blocked all access streets into centro until the city backed down. Justice in Mexico is a joke. You are on your own. Get used to it or leave. As for me, I´ll stay. Earth is a violent place and then you die.


That sounds a lot worse than Mexico City! Could the DF be more "civilized" than Guadalajara or is it just that I spend most of my time here in the more "civilized" parts of the city?


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## TundraGreen

Isla Verde said:


> That sounds a lot worse than Mexico City! Could the DF be more "civilized" than Guadalajara or is it just that I spend most of my time here in the more "civilized" parts of the city?


I would take Hound Dog's statements with the proverbial grain of salt. While there may be some basis behind his comments, he adds a fair amount of his usual colorful and assertive style to make it sound far worse than the reality.


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## AlanMexicali

TundraGreen said:


> I would take Hound Dog's statements with the proverbial grain of salt. While there may be some basis behind his comments, he adds a fair amount of his usual colorful and assertive style to make it sound far worse than the reality.


Yes it seems a bit dated. The first trip for 2 weeks to DF in 1980 I was amazed and actually shocked, even though we took taxis. Walking from the hotel, which collapsed in the 1985 earthquake, at Monumento a la Revolucion, to the new looking subway station we had go to a major blvd. I saw piles of particles of rubber off of tires along the curb. We had to crawl across car bumpers to get across streets as they parked bumper to bumper even around the corners on every street. The cars came screeching to stops at red lights. When the light turned green they burned rubber. The Blue Bird busses poured diesel fumes out the back. When we got back to the hotel we had streaks of black under our noses from breathing the smoke all day.


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## mickisue1

Longford said:


> While not for the faint of heart, I've always thought the claims that driving a car in Mexico City was one of the most dangerous things one could do in a lifetime. If someone has driven in Chicago, Los Angeles, New York, London or other huge cities ... the only difference is the signs are in Spanish. And therein lies the challenge for foreigners: sufficiently studying city/expressway maps and learning some Spanish. Oh ... and avoiding the notoriously corrupt traffic police.


I've driven in Chicago and LA at afternoon rush hour, as well as London on a Monday morning rush hour.

Even my local rush hours in the Twin Cities are not for the faint of heart.

The biggest challenge in ANY big city is that there are nearly always more cars than the streets can comfortably hold, and everyone is trying to get somewhere five minutes ago.

My two rules to help are pretty simple. A detailed map, or reliable GPS, and the willingness to ask for directions.

When those fail, read the road signs. We got lost in London, and needed to get to Gatwick. Asking for directions was no help at all. Once I realized that I could follow the signs for Dover, because we'd have to get to the eastern ring road to get there, it was easy.


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## AlanMexicali

mickisue1 said:


> I've driven in Chicago and LA at afternoon rush hour, as well as London on a Monday morning rush hour.
> 
> Even my local rush hours in the Twin Cities are not for the faint of heart.
> 
> The biggest challenge in ANY big city is that there are nearly always more cars than the streets can comfortably hold, and everyone is trying to get somewhere five minutes ago.
> 
> My two rules to help are pretty simple. A detailed map, or reliable GPS, and the willingness to ask for directions.
> 
> When those fail, read the road signs. We got lost in London, and needed to get to Gatwick. Asking for directions was no help at all. Once I realized that I could follow the signs for Dover, because we'd have to get to the eastern ring road to get there, it was easy.


Many years ago, before I bought a map of TJ, I would ask directions. The only reliable source was taxistas, I found out later. They have this ongoing joke in TJ to give tourists wrong directions, usually to the opposite direction. I mentioned this here. Some speculated it was not a local joke. They feel it was because as a general rule some Mexicans do not like to not answer a direct question and will say something anyways [not be negative]. 

Here in SLP they give good directions, I usually pull into a Pemex station. If they don´t know they say so. Now WHY in TJ don´t they do that also? I feel it is a local joke, still.

In TJ they do not invest in building or house numbers so looking for a business on a street is very hard, only the owners and the postman know. Is this also a local joke?


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## PanamaJack

Since I have been here since I was 10 and started driving at 14 it does not seem that Mexico City is all that bad of a place to drive. I have been to places in Latin America - Guatemala City, Panama City and parts of Venezuela that are much worse. In Guatemala City they tried to squeeze five lanes of traffic at rush hour into three lanes or roadway. A friend of mine was on a business trip with me in Guatemala and one day in rush hour traffic he described it as AT&T - reach out and touch a bus. The vehicles are so close together you can read the other car's gauges.

However, all of the place I mentioned pale in comparison to driving in Mumbai, Manila and Rome In Mumbai and Manila like in much of Asia a driver has to deal with pedestrians, ricksaws, motorcycles, overflowing buses, and frantic passengers in your own vehicle. In Rome I think Italians are all either retired or what to be race car drivers and show that when they get behind a wheel. Never in my life have a felt like the car behind me was in the back seat like I did driving in Rome.


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## citlali

Europe is a pieve of cake now because with the European Union came DISCIPLINE..welll more or less but also came huge fines for driving under the influence, speeding, fishtailiing and all kinds of other offenses, you will lose your driver´s license pretty fast if you brake the law so even Rome and other places are now easy places to drive compared to some Asian or Middle Eastern places.. ah the good old days are gone..


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## Hound Dog

_


TundraGreen said:



I would take Hound Dog's statements with the proverbial grain of salt. While there may be some basis behind his comments, he adds a fair amount of his usual colorful and assertive style to make it sound far worse than the reality.

Click to expand...

_Well, TG, I must admit that I try to make my posts entertaining but rarely intend to imbellish comments too much. The bus carnage problem in Guadalajara in the early 2000s was no joke and the bus drivers´union there is so powerful that errant bus drivers were never punished although they killed hundeds back then because of reckless driving. 

Actually, driving in Guadalajara is not so difficult if one remembers that one should not automatically start through an intersection without serious hesitation just because the traffic light has turned green. 

As I have stated before, the single worst city to drive in in Mexico in my experience is Oaxaca although a friend of mine who was born and raised in DF but has lived for years in San Cristóbal swears that Villahermosa, Tabasco is the worst city in Mexico in which to drive. 

Now, as mentioned above, driving in Mexico is a lark. Try India if you want to expire from abject fear.


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## JoanneR2

Thanks for this. I have to admit that I have been driving in México DF on my British driving license for the past year so this is the incentive I need to sort out a Méxican one. I don't find driving here too bad though. You do need eyes in the back and sides of your head to watch out for taxis, buses, motorcyclists, camote sellers etc. but otherwise... Segundo Piso seems to be helping with some of the congestion as well. Still the rain is starting and that generally causes chaos everywhere so maybe I am being too optimistic as always.


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## Longford

AlanMexicali said:


> ... as a general rule some Mexicans do not like to not answer a direct question and will say something anyways [not be negative].


Give the man a cupie doll! We could have a lengthy discussion pertaining to the quote, above.


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## Isla Verde

Longford said:


> Give the man a cupie doll! We could have a lengthy discussion pertaining to the quote, above.


Indeed. Like when you ask a Mexican for directions and they have no idea where the place you're looking for is located, but they tell you anyway!


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## JoanneR2

To be honest I am not sure of this works completely as a generalization but I was told by a Méxican friend not to ask for directions as people will always try to help even if they have no idea where it is you are looking for. Having said that I have the most useless GPS system in the known universe and have been known to ask when completely lost and beginning to panic. Never has helped much though... Ah we'll, as someone else said on another thread, a small price to pay for living somewhere so fabulous.


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## GARYJ65

JoanneR2 said:


> To be honest I am not sure of this works completely as a generalization but I was told by a Méxican friend not to ask for directions as people will always try to help even if they have no idea where it is you are looking for. Having said that I have the most useless GPS system in the known universe and have been known to ask when completely lost and beginning to panic. Never has helped much though... Ah we'll, as someone else said on another thread, a small price to pay for living somewhere so fabulous.


In general, it is true, for foreigners and Mexicans as well
We tend to give directions even if we don't know
(In general, not always)

Sometimes it is funny, if you don't get lost or are in a hurry


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## maesonna

I have also heard that people would rather make up directions than be so “rude” as to say they don’t know, but it hasn’t been my experience. I have indeed had people tell me with an apologetic shrug, ”_No sé que decirle_” (I don’t know what to tell you) when asked for directions. 

Or else they do give me directions, but I can’t tell what the directions mean. I blame it on the fact that Spanish has about one-third as many prepositions as English, so lots of expressions that are distinguished in English (e.g. ‘across from’ vs. ‘in front of’) are the same in Spanish (_en frente_).


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## GARYJ65

maesonna said:


> I have also heard that people would rather make up directions than be so "rude" as to say they don't know, but it hasn't been my experience. I have indeed had people tell me with an apologetic shrug, "No sé que decirle" (I don't know what to tell you) when asked for directions.
> 
> Or else they do give me directions, but I can't tell what the directions mean. I blame it on the fact that Spanish has about one-third as many prepositions as English, so lots of expressions that are distinguished in English (e.g. "across from" vs. "in front of") are the same in Spanish (en frente).


You may say enfrente or cruzando


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## bigmutt

maesonna said:


> .... it’s not only that the signs are in Spanish, but that they often lack logic — as do many features of highway design. You think you’ve got it all figured out, having studied the map carefully online or on paper, but when you’re actually there on the road at 80 km/h, you’re confronted with some illogical quirk of the intersection or interchange that the map didn’t warn you about, and suddenly (as you’re whipping closer to the decision point) you can’t tell which is the main road and which is the exit, and the sign muddies the choice even further instead of making it clear.


This is exactly the problem: illogical and totally inaccurate signage, all throughout the city.
I live in D.F. and have been driving here for over ten years.
I have also driven in Chicago, New York, Los Angeles (piece of cake!) and many cities around the world.
The worst is Montreal, where I've driven at least a dozen times over the past 20 years. Maybe Rome is a close second. 
(I've never driven myself in India or Indonesia, so I can't include those.)

As for the crooked cops, most of my MexCity driving has been with a foreign-plated vehicle and actually I have not been stopped in more than six years. I have a special wallet for those occasions, where I keep five-to-ten dollars of pesos and it always takes care of any "problems". A small price to pay for driving a car with zero registration or license fees.


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## TundraGreen

maesonna said:


> …As for getting around, it’s not only that the signs are in Spanish, but that they often lack logic —


I really enjoy the signs on the major roads in Guadalajara. They have lots of signs that say things like 

Centro
Nogales

or 

Tlaquepaque
Saltillo

where one is a local location a few blocks away and the other is some city in a completely different part of Mexico.


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## conorkilleen

TundraGreen said:


> I really enjoy the signs on the major roads in Guadalajara. They have lots of signs that say things like
> 
> Centro
> Nogales
> 
> or
> 
> Tlaquepaque
> Saltillo
> 
> where one is a local location a few blocks away and the other is some city in a completely different part of Mexico.


man oh man. Mexico City has some parts like that. There are a few places as far south around Xochimilco that have arrows pointing in 3 directions and say Reforma, Toluca, and Centro.

I have been driving here in DF for about 9 months with a NC plated vehicle. Get the Verification for your vehicle and drive without looking over your shoulder...its been a huge addition to my piece of mind. Traffic is horrible, but depends what time of day, which direction (perifirico) and if there are manifestations that crop up every other week. I believe that if you can drive in Mexico City, you can drive anywhere.

If I am only going a few miles or know there will be a ton of traffic, I will ride my 150cc Yamaha motorcycle. Its been great to learn the streets of Mexico. Although most motorcycle riders in Mexico are cutting in and out, weaving, and generally acting as if they have a death wish, I take the humble approach and go with the flow....unless of course there is a back up and then I take the "white line" route.

Blasting up or down the Reforma or the Bosques at 6:00am on a crisp Sunday morning with no traffic at all is by far the best feeling in the world.


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## GARYJ65

conorkilleen said:


> man oh man. Mexico City has some parts like that. There are a few places as far south around Xochimilco that have arrows pointing in 3 directions and say Reforma, Toluca, and Centro.
> 
> I have been driving here in DF for about 9 months with a NC plated vehicle. Get the Verification for your vehicle and drive without looking over your shoulder...its been a huge addition to my piece of mind. Traffic is horrible, but depends what time of day, which direction (perifirico) and if there are manifestations that crop up every other week. I believe that if you can drive in Mexico City, you can drive anywhere.
> 
> If I am only going a few miles or know there will be a ton of traffic, I will ride my 150cc Yamaha motorcycle. Its been great to learn the streets of Mexico. Although most motorcycle riders in Mexico are cutting in and out, weaving, and generally acting as if they have a death wish, I take the humble approach and go with the flow....unless of course there is a back up and then I take the "white line" route.
> 
> Blasting up or down the Reforma or the Bosques at 6:00am on a crisp Sunday morning with no traffic at all is by far the best feeling in the world.


I just got back from DF a few minutes ago, I'm originally a chilango, been living out for 23 yrs, but go very very often.
Every time I like it less and less
I take viaducto bicentenario, it helps a lot, not often but I have taken a 400 cc scooter to be able to ride Periferico and viaducto, but traffic is hell
Not as bad as India, Thailand and many many places more, but terrible anyway, some people say you get used to it, NO WAY I would like to get used to that never ever


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## conorkilleen

GARYJ65 said:


> I just got back from DF a few minutes ago, I'm originally a chilango, been living out for 23 yrs, but go very very often.
> Every time I like it less and less
> I take viaducto bicentenario, it helps a lot, not often but I have taken a 400 cc scooter to be able to ride Periferico and viaducto, but traffic is hell
> Not as bad as India, Thailand and many many places more, but terrible anyway, some people say you get used to it, NO WAY I would like to get used to that never ever


I heard that motorcycles and scooters are not allowed on the Periferico. However, I see a ton of them on my way to Xochimilco everyday I drive it. Do you know for a fact that this is true? If it is, then it must be overlooked.


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## GARYJ65

conorkilleen said:


> I heard that motorcycles and scooters are not allowed on the Periferico. However, I see a ton of them on my way to Xochimilco everyday I drive it. Do you know for a fact that this is true? If it is, then it must be overlooked.


They are allowed as long as they are 400 cc or more
I can see lots of 150 cc and don't get pulled over, I think it's very dangerous to drive periferico on a 150


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## Justina

I enjoyed lots of comments here having done over 20 years of driving in the DF.One has to have very quick reflexes. I suppose it depends on where you are of course, but generally, Mexican citizens don't look around them. My Mexican husband is a prime example of a sensible man who gets into his car and might as well be like a horse with its blinkers.


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## TundraGreen

Justina said:


> …like a horse with its blinkers.


I've never seen a horse with turn signals. Now, a horse with blinders, those are pretty common.


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## alfaetrin

I have to say that, having driven for many years in Mexico City, and over large parts of the country too on many occasions, the important point to remember is that it is the style of driving which is different, not the level of driving skill.
Mexican drivers are as skilful and adept as drivers in any American or European city, it is just that several formal and informal rules are observed in a slightly different manner in this country.
For a start, there is a healthy disrespect for red traffic lights and other road signs; this means, for example, that, as you approach a junction or a set of traffic lights, you have to take stock of the movements of other cars. I have stopped at pedestrian crossings where the red light is showing and been hooted at impatiently from behind, and have therefore been more or less forced to advance through the red light. 
On the other hand, unlike my experiences driving in America and Europe, the average Mexican driver has total respect for pedestrians who may be on the road. As an old-fashioned patient driver, I am happy to wait for the little old lady and her sons, daughters, grandchildren and dogs to finish crossing the road before advancing, as most Mexican driver are. Here in Britain, however, such patience would be met with a cacophony of car horns from behind you. My experience of driving in Los Angeles suggests that the USA shares the British impatience for pedestrians...
Overtaking in Mexico can be done from both sides too. While I would never dream of jumping the queue if there were two or more lanes advancing slowly, in Mexico it is a case of performing any possible manoeuver at any cost in order to advance by one car space and gain perhaps three second of advantage. When I wave a car through ahead of me in Mexico I am greeted with open-mouthed amazement on the other driver's part that I would sacrifice those three seconds of my life in order to be fair and respectful. This has the added benefit that, although I may lose perhaps up to half a minute of my life on any given journey, my car (or rather, to be more accurate, my sister-in-law's car) arrives at its destination unscathed.
In short, I think that there must be fewer mishaps-per-mile driving in Mexico than in Europe or America.


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## Isla Verde

I wonder how skillful many Mexican drivers are if you consider the fact that, at least in Mexico City, you can get a driver's license without taking any sort of practical test.


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## joaquinx

TundraGreen said:


> I've never seen a horse with turn signals. Now, a horse with blinders, those are pretty common.


Blinkers or blinders - they're the same. Horses can't see much in front of them, so they are very similar to Mexican drivers.


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## citlali

Driving without blinkers will get you a ticket..

If there are fewer mishaps in Mexico than in Europe or US /Canada why is the insurrance so high here ?


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## maesonna

Perhaps the base is smaller here, since many drivers are not insured. They are not paying into the insurance pool, making premiums higher for those who do pay. 

In Canada, auto insurance is obligatory. What about US or Europe?


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## citlali

it is obligatory in the US and Europe as well and the labor is higher too.


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## lomas108

I can't accept the fact that the general ability level of driving here is the same as places where it's necessary to take a test to get a license. I've seen some utterly hurrendous driving here, way worse than what I am used to seeing in UK. However, I've found that consequently, my general level of awareness of what is happening around me is a bit higher, as is my road rage frequency


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## Hound Dog

I have not found drivers in Mexico City to be that aggressive nor incompetent. We used to drive through the heart of the city several times a year until they built the Arco Norte bypass and never had any problems after we got rid of thos two Californuia plated vehicles which attractyed crookd cops like a dead rabbit to a vulture. Sincé we got Mexican plates - no poblems as of yet. In my limited experience, I would say the worst drivers in Mexico drive in Oaxaca City followed by Villahermoso, Veracruz City and Tuxtla Gutiérrez but there must be other legitimate candidates.


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## TundraGreen

lomas108 said:


> I can't accept the fact that the general ability level of driving here is the same as places where it's necessary to take a test to get a license. I've seen some utterly hurrendous driving here, way worse than what I am used to seeing in UK. However, I've found that consequently, my general level of awareness of what is happening around me is a bit higher, as is my road rage frequency


The test to get a driving license is a joke in the US as well as in Mexico in any place that I have lived. Europe actually requires that people learn to drive before getting a license. What a concept.


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## joaquinx

Hound Dog said:


> I would say the worst drivers in Mexico drive in Oaxaca City followed by Villahermoso, Veracruz City and Tuxtla Gutiérrez but there must be other legitimate candidates.


The real problem in Veracruz is that there are NO stop signs on cross streets. When I drive there, I do so very, very carefully.


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## Isla Verde

TundraGreen said:


> The test to get a driving license is a joke in the US as well as in Mexico in any place that I have lived. Europe actually requires that people learn to drive before getting a license. What a concept.


It's more of a joke in Mexico City - the only test is a written one.


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## joaquinx

Isla Verde said:


> It's more of a joke in Mexico City - the only test is a written one.


In Veracruz there is no written test nor an eye test if you wear glasses.


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## Isla Verde

joaquinx said:


> In Veracruz there is no written test nor an eye test if you wear glasses.


Wow, that is worse!


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## Hound Dog

_


joaquinx said:



The real problem in Veracruz is that there are NO stop signs on cross streets. When I drive there, I do so very, very carefully.

Click to expand...

_In the towns in which we reside; Ajijic, Jalisco and San Cristóbal de Las Casas, Chiapas along with the towns we routinely visit on wheels from Oaxaca City to Merida, I can´t remenber ever seing a stop sign, much less one at which anybody ever actually stopped. There are customary practices in each place with which one must become accustomed. Just remember that, in the event you and another driver getting it wrong at any particular intersection actually have a collision causing any property damage, settle on an agreed amount of insignificant cash before the crooked cops get there. _NEVER_ call the cops if you can help it. Always have legal representation as an integral part of your auto insurance policy or you will probably end up in the lockup indefinitely without it.

Always keep in mind that if someone runs into you due to their irrsponsible behavior on their part they will probably run away and you will be the one jailed even if one of your loved ones is killed or badly hurt in the crash. They could be lying there in a strange hospital needing your help while you are cooling your heals in he hoosegow for days with the inability to even communicate.

This is not funny stuff.


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## maesonna

Isla Verde said:


> It's more of a joke in Mexico City - the only test is a written one.


No, there’s no test for a Mexico City driver’s license at all. See the official page:
1. Official ID
2. Proof of address.
3. Signed declaration by the applicant that all data are correct.
4. Proof of payment.
5. Residence visa, if the applicant is a foreigner.

Note the absence of any type of test whatsoever, whether practical or written. Note, in fact, the absence of any requirement that the applicant knows how to drive (for age 18 and older; for age 16 & 17 it’s different).
My offspring all got their licenses first, then learned how to drive.


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## lomas108

I've always found Oaxaca City to be a much easier place to drive, there is a bit more etiquette and common sense on the roads than Mexico City. Only other place I have any experience of driving is Xalapa which is also infinitely better than Mexico City. 

Am I missing something when I tell my missus that if there was some kind of formal procedure where people would have to pay to take a test it would alleviate traffic, reduce pollution, reduce the number of idiots on the road, reduce the number of accidents/injuries/casualties, generate some much needed revenue to fix the awful state of the roads?


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## TundraGreen

joaquinx said:


> The real problem in Veracruz is that there are NO stop signs on cross streets. When I drive there, I do so very, very carefully.


There are no signs on any of the intersections in my neighborhood. You just have to know that the east-west streets have right-of-way and the north-south streets are supposed to yield. The east-west streets are bus routes, and the buses speed. The streets are narrow with cars parked close to the intersections so visibility of on-coming traffic is poor.

It is a system perfectly designed for disaster and it occurs frequently. I have seen dozens of wrecks on the corners within a block or two of my house. Whenever the buses come down my block, a north-south street, I know there has been a wreck blocking one of the east-west streets. It happens pretty often.


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## Dray2

TundraGreen said:


> There are no signs on any of the intersections in my neighborhood. You just have to know that the east-west streets have right-of-way and the north-south streets are supposed to yield. The east-west streets are bus routes, and the buses speed. The streets are narrow with cars parked close to the intersections so visibility of on-coming traffic is poor.
> 
> It is a system perfectly designed for disaster and it occurs frequently. I have seen dozens of wrecks on the corners within a block or two of my house. Whenever the buses come down my block, a north-south street, I know there has been a wreck blocking one of the east-west streets. It happens pretty often.


TundraGreen...the same seems to apply to many/most of the streets with intersections in Acapulco which are off the main drag, the Costera. There are no traffic signs, so to be on the safe side I always approach the intersections with the mind set of yielding to those who are approaching. I may be seen as driving too defensively but at least I and my car are still intact. :yo:


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## maesonna

lomas108 said:


> Am I missing something when I tell my missus that if there was some kind of formal procedure where people would have to pay to take a test it would [solve lots of problems]?


Well let me tell you my husband’s experience getting his first driver’s license some 40 years ago when he was a youth and Mexico City still had a driver’s test. He showed his ID, filled in the form, paid his fee, and after a while walked out with his license. 

Puzzled that he hadn’t gone through any test, he finally realized that the person that had taken his money and given him his license had not even offered him the option of going through the official procedure at the official price, but had channeled him directly to the ‘easy path’ and charged him the ‘facilitated fee’.


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## ojosazules11

Dray2 said:


> TundraGreen...the same seems to apply to many/most of the streets with intersections in Acapulco which are off the main drag, the Costera. There are no traffic signs, so to be on the safe side I always approach the intersections with the mind set of yielding to those who are approaching. I may be seen as driving too defensively but at least I and my car are still intact. :yo:


My husband, who is Mexican, drives the same way you describe. He is very cautious. Even in Toronto when he doesn't have a stop sign and the cross traffic does he will at least make a long pause, if not a full stop. I'm impatient, and point out the other cars have the stop, not him. But old habits die hard, and he's learned in Mexico to never presume the other guy's going to stop.


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## Hound Dog

The most civilized city in which I have driven in Mexico is San Cristóbal de La Casas where rights of way are clearly marked at most intersections and those priorities are respected consistently. Within that city people also drive cautiously (more or less) and respect the local traffic traditions. In Oaxaca City, on the other hand, anarchy and disrespect for human life reign on the roads and for no reason other than assertiion of unbridled ego by countless morons asserting the only dignity they still possess with their cars. After all, there is really no place to go in Oaxaca City outside of the walkable historic center so where the hell are they in a hurry to which to arrive?


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## Longford

TundraGreen said:


> The test to get a driving license is a joke in the US as well as in Mexico in any place that I have lived. Europe actually requires that people learn to drive before getting a license. What a concept.


In Illinois (USA), before someone can get an initial/first driver's license they have to: 1) pass a written examination of the 'Rules of the Road', 2) successfully pass an eyesight exam, and 3) pass a driving test with a Secretary of State police/testing officer sitting by your side as you drive down a street/roadway, park the car, etc. Depending upon a persons driving record or how long they've been driving or age, other written and eyesight examinations are required throughout the years. My recollection is that the written test is required of everyone, once every 10 years and the eyesight exam is required each time a license is renewed. 

When I was in high school, back in the 1960s, students were required to take a drivers education course, classroom and behind the wheel of a car, before being allowed to apply for a learner's permit from the State. 

I believe that many/most other states in the USA apply the same requirements as Illinois does. 

When I obtained my drivers license in the D.F. all I was required to do was to pay a fee, no questons asked, no qualifications/proficiency needed to be demonstrated.


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## TundraGreen

Longford said:


> In Illinois (USA), before someone can get an initial/first driver's license they have to: 1) pass a written examination of the 'Rules of the Road', 2) successfully pass an eyesight exam, and 3) pass a driving test with a Secretary of State police/testing officer sitting by your side as you drive down a street/roadway, park the car, etc. Depending upon a persons driving record or how long they've been driving or age, other written and eyesight examinations are required throughout the years. My recollection is that the written test is required of everyone, once every 10 years and the eyesight exam is required each time a license is renewed.
> 
> When I was in high school, back in the 1960s, students were required to take a drivers education course, classroom and behind the wheel of a car, before being allowed to apply for a learner's permit from the State.
> 
> I believe that many/most other states in the USA apply the same requirements as Illinois does.
> 
> When I obtained my drivers license in the D.F. all I was required to do was to pay a fee, no questons asked, no qualifications/proficiency needed to be demonstrated.


I guess when I say you don't really need to know how to drive to get a license in the US. I mean some of the more subtle skills, like keeping in the right lane except to pass, staying the same lane when turning corners (i.e. turning right, turn into the right lane, turning left, turn into the left lane), like how to keep your speed up and merge when entering freeways instead of stopping and waiting for a break, pulling off when traveling slowly on a two lane road so the 5 cars behind you can pass, pulling to the side of the road to use your cell phone to talk or text, zero threshold for alcohol in the blood when driving, serious penalties for drinking and driving, not a wrist slap, murder or manslaughter charges when you do something stupid like look at your cell phone and run down a bicyclist or pedestrian.


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## lhpdiver

What are the 'official' rules regarding glorietas ? Who has the right of way - the car in the circle or the car entering ? 

As best I can tell - a car driving down hill has priority over a crossing vehicle. ?

It seems if you approach an intersection and YOU must cross over a topa - that implies that you are expected to yield to crossing traffic. Gets a little fuzzy if you are going down hill.

I took a written test to get my Mexican license - none of these issues was touched upon.


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## Longford

TundraGreen said:


> I mean some of the more subtle skills, like keeping in the right lane except to pass, staying the same lane when turning corners (i.e. turning right, turn into the right lane, turning left, turn into the left lane), like how to keep your speed up and merge when entering freeways instead of stopping and waiting for a break, pulling off when traveling slowly on a two lane road so the 5 cars behind you can pass, pulling to the side of the road to use your cell phone to talk or text, zero threshold for alcohol in the blood when driving, serious penalties for drinking and driving, not a wrist slap, murder or manslaughter charges when you do something stupid like look at your cell phone and run down a bicyclist or pedestrian.


In Illinois, the ability to drive in accordance with the rules has to be demonstrated to the satisfaction of the examiner who rides with you for the driving portion of the testing process. There are points against you if you turn from the wrong lane, travel too far below or to far above the posted speed limit, don't merge properly, etc., etc. These are areas tested for. So people know what the rules are. However, people get lazy or forgetful and sometimes dangerous when they drive when the testing officer isn't sitting next to them in the vehicle. 

There are regulations against driving while holding a cellphone to your ear, drinking and driving, etc., etc., but many people become careless ... until they get caught and are issued an expensive ticket. A challenge in the USA is the fact that many immigrants, including illegal immigrants from Mexico, apparently drive without licenses/insurance and have caused accidents, deaths, etc. Some states have begun to license illegal immigrants in order to get them tested/qualified/licensed and so that they can purchase vehicle insurance.

My impression of drivers I've ridden with or have witnessed when in Mexico is that, as a whole/generally, they're the worst or near the top of the list of the worst I've seen in any of the many countries I've traveled to. And I toss into that group of drivers in Mexico ... expats.


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## Longford

lhpdiver said:


> What are the 'official' rules regarding ...


My personal "official rules" are to always cede the right of way to wayward, agressive or thoughtless drivers ... because I'm in no big hurry when I'm driving, I want to get to my destination safely, and I want those 'other' drivers to get as far away from me as quickly as possible.  I have friends who when driving always seem to want to assert their "rights" under the rules. They honk their horns. They swear from the windows of their vehicles. They get all hot and bothered when someone butts in front of them in traffic, etc. They've also been in traffic accidents ... because of wanting to be in the right.


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## Justina

Longford, you must be talking about my Mexican husband.


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## joaquinx

Longford said:


> A challenge in the USA is the fact that many immigrants, including illegal immigrants from Mexico, apparently drive without licenses/insurance and have caused accidents, deaths, etc. Some states have begun to license illegal immigrants in order to get them tested/qualified/licensed and so that they can purchase vehicle insurance.


Driving without a license is a tax violation while driving without insurance and having an accident involves tort law and compensation to the party that incurs a loss. Many people drive without insurance until the police, when pulling a car over, will check the drivers license and the insurance card. When I was living in Texas, low rated insurance companies would offer policies that covered the minimum time required by the state which was six months. But offer a monthly payment schedule. Pay around 25 dollars for the first month's coverage and still get an insurance card that said you were covered for 12 months. What a deal! Many, many US citizens took this option.


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## Longford

joaquinx said:


> Driving without a license is a tax violation while driving without insurance and having an accident involves tort law and compensation to the party that incurs a loss. Many people drive without insurance until the police, when pulling a car over, will check the drivers license and the insurance card. When I was living in Texas, low rated insurance companies would offer policies that covered the minimum time required by the state which was six months. But offer a monthly payment schedule. Pay around 25 dollars for the first month's coverage and still get an insurance card that said you were covered for 12 months. What a deal! Many, many US citizens took this option.


Yes, where there's a will to be deceitful ... there's generally a way. The State cannot know, with absloute certainty, if a vehicle/driver is properly insured. Here's what Illinois does regarding enforcement:



> Enforcement of the mandatory insurance law is accomplished through a random questionnaire sampling process and the issuance of traffic tickets.
> 
> •If the computer randomly selects your vehicle, you will receive a questionnaire asking for the name of your insurance company and policy number. Your answers will be verified with the company you name. If you do not have insurance or fail to return the questionnaire with the requested information, your license plates will be suspended.
> 
> •If you are stopped for a traffic violation or involved in an accident, a law enforcement officer may issue a traffic citation if you are unable to provide evidence of insurance. If convicted, your license plates will be suspended and you will face the following fines:
> 
> — minimum $500 fine for driving uninsured
> —minimum $1,000 fine for driving a vehicle while the license plates are suspended for a previous insurance violation


Click here if you want to read more, about the Illinois regulation.


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## maesonna

Longford said:


> My personal "official rules" are to always cede the right of way to wayward, agressive or thoughtless drivers ... because I'm in no big hurry when I'm driving, I want to get to my destination safely, and I want those 'other' drivers to get as far away from me as quickly as possible.  I have friends who when driving always seem to want to assert their "rights" under the rules. They honk their horns. They swear from the windows of their vehicles. They get all hot and bothered when someone butts in front of them in traffic, etc. They've also been in traffic accidents ... because of wanting to be in the right.


I’m on your team! That’s what I was taught 40 years ago in my Defensive Driving course as a new teenage driver in Canada. 

Not only do they increase their stress levels and their probability of getting into an accident, but they use a lot more ga$. Look up “hypermiling” (driving for extreme fuel saving). There is apparently no hypermiling movement in Mexico. It’s so opposite of the way most people drive here! 

I mean, the fanatic hypermilers go rather too far for my taste, but still, we can learn some fuel-saving tips from them. One technique that I seem to be the only one who practices it is, don’t accelerate when you see you are going to stop ahead.


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## GARYJ65

Longford said:


> My personal "official rules" are to always cede the right of way to wayward, agressive or thoughtless drivers ... because I'm in no big hurry when I'm driving, I want to get to my destination safely, and I want those 'other' drivers to get as far away from me as quickly as possible.  I have friends who when driving always seem to want to assert their "rights" under the rules. They honk their horns. They swear from the windows of their vehicles. They get all hot and bothered when someone butts in front of them in traffic, etc. They've also been in traffic accidents ... because of wanting to be in the right.


I like your rules and get annoyed by the latter


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## GARYJ65

Longford said:


> My personal "official rules" are to always cede the right of way to wayward, agressive or thoughtless drivers ... because I'm in no big hurry when I'm driving, I want to get to my destination safely, and I want those 'other' drivers to get as far away from me as quickly as possible.  I have friends who when driving always seem to want to assert their "rights" under the rules. They honk their horns. They swear from the windows of their vehicles. They get all hot and bothered when someone butts in front of them in traffic, etc. They've also been in traffic accidents ... because of wanting to be in the right.


I've known quite a few friends who get spanked for trying to impose their rules and get aggressive 
And other 2 who got killed for the same reason, perhaps they were right, but they're death now


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## TundraGreen

Longford said:


> My personal "official rules" are to always cede the right of way to wayward, agressive or thoughtless drivers ... because I'm in no big hurry when I'm driving, I want to get to my destination safely, and I want those 'other' drivers to get as far away from me as quickly as possible.  I have friends who when driving always seem to want to assert their "rights" under the rules. They honk their horns. They swear from the windows of their vehicles. They get all hot and bothered when someone butts in front of them in traffic, etc. They've also been in traffic accidents ... because of wanting to be in the right.


I have ridden motorcycles for my primary transportation for most of my life. On a motorcycle you either learn to drive defensively and give the right of way to everyone, or you don't survive very long. There is a saying: There are old motorcycle riders and there are bold motorcycle riders, but there are no old, bold riders.


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## Hound Dog

All this traffic talk reminds me of one of my favorite stories.

We have these Zapoteco friends from Oaxaca who have become quite successful financially and have accumulated some earthly possessions including a few nice homes and automóbiles over the years running a successful business so they have assets which are vulnernable to legal tort issues should they falter in life but they, like so many we have met here in Mexico, have no discernment as to the vulnerabilities they face in life.

At some point within the last few months. my wife suggested to the familiy matriarch that she should get a Jalisco driver´s license (she has never had any drivers´s license from any Mexican state) because, had she no driver´s license, her automobile insurance would not be valid. Her respónse was, "What insurance?"


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