# How to Set Up an Artist Retreat Without Looking Like a Campsite?



## tomroadjunky (Sep 29, 2009)

I want to set up an artist retreat in South Spain but I'm concerned about legal implications.

I thought to rent a place and charge each person who came to camp and take part in workshops a weekly fee. But an estate agent suggested I would need a whole pile of permissions to do anything that resembles charging for hospitality. Especialy if only renting property.

Would it be a viable workaround to run the retreat on a donation basis? Possibly with a minimum 'club' membership fee?

And practically speaking, if i rent an old house in the countryside and make no local publicity whatsoever and have no reception, just a few big tents in the gardens and some shaded areas, are we really likely to be on the radar for the local authorities?

I would appreciate your feedback and ideas!

Tom


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

tomroadjunky said:


> I want to set up an artist retreat in South Spain but I'm concerned about legal implications.
> 
> I thought to rent a place and charge each person who came to camp and take part in workshops a weekly fee. But an estate agent suggested I would need a whole pile of permissions to do anything that resembles charging for hospitality. Especialy if only renting property.
> 
> ...


hi & welcome

to run any sort of business, you would indeed need a 'pile of permissions' & insurances

if you are renting a property as your home you would almost certainly be in breach of your rental contract if you then sublet rooms - even if they aren't paying a 'room rate' for the room, but a membership as you suggest (that is still paying)

any income you make - and I assume you are planning to make an income from this? - would have to be declared - even if you just set up as self-employed you would have _autónomo_ national insurance to pay every month, even before you pay tax

if you are planning to have people camping there you'd probably need to have toilet & shower facilities



there are probably many more things that I haven't thought of - but that's just a few things I can think of if you are going to do this legally

as to your idea of doing this 'under the radar'........I doubt you'd get away with it for long - & fines could be high - because, let's face it, it would be illegal on so very many levels


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

........ someone will know, they'll have to - landlord, advertising, neighbours, taxi drivers, local ayuntamiento, insurance company........ I know a friend of mine, ages ago got caught with an illegal swimming pool in her garden cos someone (official) flew over it in a light aircraft and it showed up - which apparently they do from time to time.

If its illegal, dont do it

Jo xxx


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

You could always make it free on condition that guests buy one of your paintings!

Sounds like a nice idea, hope it comes off.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Alcalaina said:


> You could always make it free on condition that guests buy one of your paintings!
> 
> Sounds like a nice idea, hope it comes off.



He'd have to churn out paintings on a production line....
Without showers, toilet facilities etc. it would defo not be nice, though.
The idea is sound but you can't do that kind of thing on a shoestring. A few years ago a wealthy friend bought a small hamlet in Almeria and did up some of the derelict houses and an olive mill. She offers courses in various things: painting, photography, pottery...those kinds of arty activities and I think she throws in 'holistic' and 'therapeutic' stuff as well as she's into that sort of thing.
She does very well out of it.
Don't know if any of you remember a Volkswagen ad from about twenty years ago where a VW driving along what looked like a desert road developed a squeak which turned out to be from the female passenger's dangly ear-rings? Well, that was shot on her land before it got all tarted up and she made more out of the revenue from that ad than all her other endeavours...


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## tomroadjunky (Sep 29, 2009)

Thanks for all your replies.

I just spoke to a friend who has been doing something similar for some years in Portugal - she has a cultural association there and as such runs courses and hosts the guests who are attending the workshop. As it's small and irregular she stays within the law this way, she says.

Does that make sense to anyone? Or are things a little tighter here in Spain?


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

tomroadjunky said:


> Thanks for all your replies.
> 
> I just spoke to a friend who has been doing something similar for some years in Portugal - she has a cultural association there and as such runs courses and hosts the guests who are attending the workshop. As it's small and irregular she stays within the law this way, she says.
> 
> Does that make sense to anyone? Or are things a little tighter here in Spain?


It doesn't really make sense to me at all. I dont know Portuguese law, but you are saying that as a self employed person she doesnt have to register or pay tax in Portugal?

For the one thing, you will legally need to be registered as autonomo. Secondly, trying to do it on the sly will probably come to the attention of locals, who may well use the denuncia system to shop you. Finally, you will be running a camp site, and I suspect it will need to be licenced and insured


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## tomroadjunky (Sep 29, 2009)

I'm really not sure about tax. I guess her cultural association presents its records at the end of the year and they're probably non-profit.

If you're only hosting a bunch of people to run a workshop it doesn't seem to me to resemble a campsite. I wonder what the legal definition would be...


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

tomroadjunky said:


> I'm really not sure about tax. I guess her cultural association presents its records at the end of the year and they're probably non-profit.
> 
> If you're only hosting a bunch of people to run a workshop it doesn't seem to me to resemble a campsite. I wonder what the legal definition would be...


In Spain the legal definition would be its a business and as such would need all the legal bank accounts, insurances and permits!

Jo xxx


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

tomroadjunky said:


> I'm really not sure about tax. I guess her cultural association presents its records at the end of the year and they're probably non-profit.
> 
> If you're only hosting a bunch of people to run a workshop it doesn't seem to me to resemble a campsite. I wonder what the legal definition would be...


I guess the big question is whether you are looking on it as a way to make money, or if you just want to provide a cool place for artists to get together, and make donations to cover costs? 

If the latter, I can't see that that would qualify as a business or require all the legal formalities; they would just be house-guests who happened to be camping in the garden. Just make sure you've got good third-party insurance though. 

Are there any existing set-ups you know of that you could ask how they manage?


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