# British national moving to Barcelona not sure!



## Lolarain (Dec 5, 2021)

Hello,

I am a British National living in Paris with permanent French residency and I’m moving to Barcelona. From everything I can tell with my French residency I have to right to live and work in Spain, but I keep seeing contradictory statements. Does anyone have any concrete info?
The British embassy just told me to check their website and the Spanish embassy didn’t pick up the phone!!
Thanks for any help


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

There is a poster here who has been saying the same thing but pretty sure you can not transfer residency rights as therefore require a visa


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

All British citizens with permanent residency in an EU country have been absorbed into the provisions of the withdrawal agreement, which lock you into a country you are resident of. So you cannot transfer your French residency to Spain, or anywhere else (with the exception of the Republic of Ireland, being in the Common Travel Area). So if you want to move to Barcelona, you need to apply for a suitable visa at a Spanish consulate as third country national. Good news is if you then stay in Spain for 5 years, you will obtain fresh permanent residency unrelated to the Brexit withdrawal agreement, and can move to another EU state and transfer your residency under EU law, with the exception of Denmark, which has an opt-out.


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## Barriej (Jul 23, 2012)

Lolarain said:


> Hello,
> 
> I am a British National living in Paris with permanent French residency and I’m moving to Barcelona. From everything I can tell with my French residency I have to right to live and work in Spain, but I keep seeing contradictory statements. Does anyone have any concrete info?
> The British embassy just told me to check their website and the Spanish embassy didn’t pick up the phone!!
> Thanks for any help


After brexit us Brits lost the right to free movement. There were lots of stuff in the papers about people who lived in France but who worked across the border in Belgium ( a workmate lives in Holland and contracts for a bottling firm 40km away just over the German border) he can't do that now.

Basically we are all allowed to stay in the country we have residence in but to move you become a 3rd country citizen and have to the visa route.


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## Lolarain (Dec 5, 2021)

Ok, thanks everyone!


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Joppa said:


> All British citizens with permanent residency in an EU country have been absorbed into the provisions of the withdrawal agreement, which lock you into a country you are resident of. So you cannot transfer your French residency to Spain, or anywhere else (with the exception of the Republic of Ireland, being in the Common Travel Area). So if you want to move to Barcelona, you need to apply for a suitable visa at a Spanish consulate as third country national. *Good news is if you then stay in Spain for 5 years, you will obtain fresh permanent residency unrelated to the Brexit withdrawal agreement, and can move to another EU state and transfer your residency under EU law,* with the exception of Denmark, which has an opt-out.


Could you point us to where that is stated in the WA, please. My understanding is that as British citizens that doesn't apply.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

xabiaxica said:


> Could you point us to where that is stated in the WA, please. My understanding is that as British citizens that doesn't apply.


If you as British citizen apply now for NLV or any other residency visa in an EU state, you do so as third country national just like any other like American, Canadian, Russian etc, so the same rules apply. You no longer do so as beneficiary of the WA. So like other visa holders, after 5 years you qualify for permanent residency, and under EU rules (amended after the Lisbon treaty), you can move to another EU state and transfer your residency with the exception of Denmark. If you are a beneficiary of the WA, you have to apply for your visa for the country other than the one you are currently living.


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

Joppa said:


> If you as British citizen apply now for NLV or any other residency visa in an EU state, you do so as third country national just like any other like American, Canadian, Russian etc, so the same rules apply. You no longer do so as beneficiary of the WA. So like other visa holders, after 5 years you qualify for permanent residency, and under EU rules (amended after the Lisbon treaty), you can move to another EU state and transfer your residency with the exception of Denmark. If you are a beneficiary of the WA, you have to apply for your visa for the country other than the one you are currently living.


Are you sure about this 5 year rule? I am not certain that the EU rule will apply to UK nats. There certainly was no mention of it in all the Brexit stuff in fact it was pointed out that one of the distinct differences was that unlike EU members UK nats with EU resident were no longer able to benefit from free movement


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

kaipa said:


> Are you sure about this 5 year rule? I am not certain that the EU rule will apply to UK nats. There certainly was no mention of it in all the Brexit stuff in fact it was pointed out that one of the distinct differences was that unlike EU members UK nats with EU resident were no longer able to benefit from free movement


It would be very odd to discriminate against UK nationals now applying under the same rules as other third country citizens. The withdrawal agreement is something extra applicable to UK citizens because of the unique circumstance of Brexit. It should not take away rights that are open to all other non-EU citizens. If I can find authoritative statement, I will post it here.


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

But when the UK was in the EU 3rd country nationals with 5 years residence didnt acquire the same rights of free movement as EU nationals only EU members had that right, I thought- might be wrong though


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## ALKB (Jan 20, 2012)

kaipa said:


> But when the UK was in the EU 3rd country nationals with 5 years residence didnt acquire the same rights of free movement as EU nationals only EU members had that right, I thought- might be wrong though


They did and they do, it's just not a very well known piece of legislation. It's not quite like FoM but very similar.









Long-term residents


Directive on the status of non-EU nationals who are long-term residents sets the conditions under which non-EU nationals can obtain the status of long-term residents, which grant them a set of uniform rights, similar to those enjoyed by EU.




ec.europa.eu


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## *Sunshine* (Mar 13, 2016)

ALKB said:


> They did and they do, it's just not a very well known piece of legislation. It's not quite like FoM but very similar.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The key difference is that this permit does NOT automatically include the right to work, which makes it not very useful for those of us below retirement age and without a generous trust fund.


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## ALKB (Jan 20, 2012)

*Sunshine* said:


> The key difference is that this permit does NOT automatically include the right to work, which makes it not very useful for those of us below retirement age and without a generous trust fund.


Indeed.

I understand that a work permit is usually granted if there is a job offer, without having to go through quite the same checks and meeting requirements as if applying without being a holder of EU Long Residence.


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## expat16 (Jun 11, 2016)

ALKB said:


> Indeed.
> 
> I understand that a work permit is usually granted if there is a job offer, without having to go through quite the same checks and meeting requirements as if applying without being a holder of EU Long Residence.


OP this is correct. I did the same thing as a long term-EU resident of the Netherlands under that directive. 

The way it worked for me in NL, is that when you apply for permanent residence in NL, by default they give you the residence called "long-term resident-EU" (as opposed to the standard/old school country-specific permanent residence). I don't know how that type of residence is obtained in France, but you should be able to change/update your residence accordingly as the requirements (at least in NL) were the same as for the regular permanent residence.

With that residence you get a right to move to another EU country that participates in the scheme (at the time, the non-participating countries were the UK, Ireland, and Denmark). Each country can vary in its requirements as to what you need to settle there with this residence. For Spain you either need a job other, or to show that you have funds in your bank for 12 months costs (there's guidelines for calculating how much you need).

The form you need for Spain is Modelo EX-11 https://extranjeros.inclusion.gob.e...solicitudes2/11-Formulario_larga_duracixn.pdf

There in box 4 you need to request Residencia de larga duración (which is the first section of box 4) and check the box which says □ Titular de autorización de residencia de larga duración-UE en otro Estado miembro (art. 155).

You CANT get Residencia de larga duración-UE (which is what the second section of box 4 is for) in Spain right away when you enter based on your French long-term EU residence. I didn't know that and so my application was delayed because I marked the wrong box in Section 4. It has to be the regular Spanish residence in the first section of box 4.


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## expat16 (Jun 11, 2016)

*Sunshine* said:


> The key difference is that this permit does NOT automatically include the right to work, which makes it not very useful for those of us below retirement age and without a generous trust fund.


It does give a right to work. Once you have it you don't need to compete as a third country national in the work marketplace - so any employer wanting to hire you does not need to show that they can't find a Spanish or EU national prior to hiring you.


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## expat16 (Jun 11, 2016)

Joppa said:


> It would be very odd to discriminate against UK nationals now applying under the same rules as other third country citizens. The withdrawal agreement is something extra applicable to UK citizens because of the unique circumstance of Brexit. It should not take away rights that are open to all other non-EU citizens. If I can find authoritative statement, I will post it here.


Yes that would be very odd. I'm curious to know whether that is indeed the case. If it is true, it may have to do with how the residence was acquired. In my case, as third country national in The Netherlands, I had to reside there for 5 continuous years, take Dutch language reading, writing, listening, and speaking tests, take a Dutch sociocultural test, prepare a job-search portfolio, and finally attend an interview in Dutch regarding said portfolio.

Perhaps the reasoning for locking in the UK nationals who attained residency differently would be to make them jump all those hoops in their country of residence prior to (re)gaining EU freedom of movement.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

expat16 said:


> Yes that would be very odd. I'm curious to know whether that is indeed the case. If it is true, it may have to do with how the residence was acquired. In my case, as third country national in The Netherlands, I had to reside there for 5 continuous years, take Dutch language reading, writing, listening, and speaking tests, take a Dutch sociocultural test, prepare a job-search portfolio, and finally attend an interview in Dutch regarding said portfolio.
> 
> Perhaps the reasoning for locking in the UK nationals who attained residency differently would be to make them jump all those hoops in their country of residence prior to (re)gaining EU freedom of movement.


There are a lot of things that are delegated to individual member states, and exact requirement to qualify for permanent residency for non-EU citizen is one. Not all countries require language competency. Spain, for example, does not. It's only required for those applying for naturalisation as Spanish citizens (normally after 10 years' residence).


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## *Sunshine* (Mar 13, 2016)

expat16 said:


> It does give a right to work. Once you have it you don't need to compete as a third country national in the work marketplace - so any employer wanting to hire you does not need to show that they can't find a Spanish or EU national prior to hiring you.


Sorry, I should have said that if doesn't automatically include a work permit in all countries that participate. 

For example, in Germany the employer does need to show that there is no available EU citizen or third country national with a work permit for the job nor is it possible to work through a temp agency.

Are you sure that Spain lets third country nationals with a long- term EU permit take up any job? Without any checks whatsoever?


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## expat16 (Jun 11, 2016)

*Sunshine* said:


> Sorry, I should have said that if doesn't automatically include a work permit in all countries that participate.
> 
> For example, in Germany the employer does need to show that there is no available EU citizen or third country national with a work permit for the job nor is it possible to work through a temp agency.
> 
> Are you sure that Spain lets third country nationals with a long- term EU permit take up any job? Without any checks whatsoever?


Yes, that's how I was able to come live and work in Spain. I had to get a job offer in writing from my future employer and that was part of my Spanish permanent residence application (transfer from NL-EU residence), once the residence was granted I could start work right away.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

*Sunshine* said:


> Sorry, I should have said that if doesn't automatically include a work permit in all countries that participate.
> 
> For example, in Germany the employer does need to show that there is no available EU citizen or third country national with a work permit for the job nor is it possible to work through a temp agency.
> 
> Are you sure that Spain lets third country nationals with a long- term EU permit take up any job? Without any checks whatsoever?


Each participating EU country decides whether work permit is required for those coming to live in their country with EU long-term residence permit. Spain does not but a lot of other countries do.


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