# North / South ?



## MRW (Apr 18, 2010)

Hi, been away for a week to somewhere VERY close.
Since I joined this site couple of months ago with the thought of retirement there I noticed that any reference to the North tends to be bad? Its all very risky? Stay south? Property risks? Not in EU, Etc. So being one of those that cannot resist finding out why I took a week package to the North and stayed in West Keyrenia.
I have to say that I found it a very nice experience, no problems at all, spoke to some people that I had contacted before I went, travelled all around with a number of people, both brit ex pats and locals. So, for what its worth, probably get me thrown off this site but:
I. I found all the people I came into contact with incredibly friendly, helpful, welcoming and embarrasingly generous, even complete strangers. 
2. Generally I found prices of most things very reasonable
3. I actually think the property is cheap.
It seams relatively unspoilt and less developed but generally where it has been developed it is in very good taste with the surrounding country. 
Not one person I spoke with had a bad word to say about the south and hoped I would be happy in my retirement wherever I decided to settle. 

I honestly hope I will not offend anyone that is definitely NOT my intention. 
I realise there are historical grievences, I was there in 70s while serving in the Royal Navy before and after 1974 so am aware why but obviously I was not involved with citizens on either side so cannot begin to understand the underlying feelings involved. It certainly has changed, everywhere has over 30-40 years but it was still very recognisable as the same place. After 36 years has passed does anyone in the south feel that a solution can be reached, draw a line under the past and move on all together? I would love to know how you feel.

All I can say is that I feel it is a very beautiful island and do hope that one day it will be an open to free travel and united as a people and a nation. 

Michael


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## Veronica (Apr 5, 2008)

Of course the property there is cheap. You could sell your next door neighbours house very cheaply to some unsuspecting person because acutall it is not your to sell. This is exactly what has been happening in the North. 
Theproblem is that many people who have bought property stand to lose everything as t he rightful Greek Cypriot owners are now claiming their land back.
Turkey issues title deeds which are not worth the paper they are written on.
Google the Orams case. Make sure you read the latest decisions from the high courts and the Eupropean court.

Talking about the North will certainly not get you banned from this site but you will get the truth from us because we don't want to see yet more brits getting fleeced and losing everything.

Veronica


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## MRW (Apr 18, 2010)

Hi Veronica,
That is what I expected but thank you for your input.
I have a Solicitor in the UK that has been our family solicitor for 40 years, unfortunately about to retire. He put me in touch with a UK solicitor that has a property in North Cyprus and I talked to him at some length before I made the trip. He has been spending time in his house there since well before the 1974 division and he acts in conjunction with a solicitor in Lefkosa. I have been offered a property owned by a long standing friend of his which they inherited from his father. They live in the UK and have been using the house as a holiday home and winter retreat for many years, Unfortunately the owner is suffering from advancing Altzhiemers disease and can no longer make the trip so his wife wishes to sell the property to tidy up his estate and to use the money toward his private care for the time he has left. The first deeds of this property were in his fathers name from 1963 when it was built but were transferered to his sons name in 1997 so have been in the family name for 47 years. 
They have offered to rent the house to me for one year at a reasonable rate and agreed that at the end of that time I can buy the house at a price agreed today and the total rent for the year would be deducted from the purchase price if I buy it. Alternatively, I can simply walk away at the end of the year. 
So that is why I went to the north. 
Being solicitors and with such a long history of involvement out there I have listened to what they have to say, thats why we have solicitors. In fact there is quite alot of British owned property in North Cyprus much of which has been owned long before the division. I am advised that none of this property has ever been under threat of losing ownership and they have excellent relations with all the local people there. 
I do understand what has happened and honestly if I were a Greek Cypriot that had lost my land I would feel as bitter about it. I also understand there are Turkish Cypriots in the North with similar feeling as they fled there property in the south. 
I have looked at the Orams case just after I joined the site and I do feel for them, I really do. However, to try and turn back the clock, everyone goes back and claims what was rightly theirs, knocks down buildings that have been built over 36 years and everything will be settled is really impractical and I do not think that will happen. 
The progress of advancing Turkish full membership of the EU is a long and complicated issue, they all are. However they are moving steadily forward, with a great deal of changes that are quite slow and a little painful to their historic culture but progress in increasing in pace. The general concensus is that 2013 may well be the year full membership will be granted, Europe does actually really want this to happen. So one of the issues that obviously has to be settled is Cyprus and the land issues. The current proposals that the Turkish government makes compensation payments to proven claims appears to be the favoured answer to the problem (BOTH WAYS) not from the owners of the property built there but from the Turkish goverment. The question is the amount, how is will be assessed and when. Both sides appear to be agreed so I think the final issue might be settled that way. Bear in mind that Turkey, when it becomes a full memember, in it early years will be entitled to huge funding grants for infastructure improvements, enviroment improvements, health, industrial development, education so I do not think the compensation issue will be an amount that they will let stand in the way of entry into the market. 
At the end of the day there obviously has to be a settlement for both sides to move forward, I just hope it works, the borders sissapear and everyone can benefite from the assets of the whole island has. 
To draw a comparison at home:
My father was a fruit farmer in Hertfordshire. He worked so hard for years to start, build, develop the farm, just got to the point of producing him a decent living. After the war the goverment introduced the right for local councils to 'compulory purchase peoples land to build new towns on to solve the housing crisis from London bombed out homeless. My fathers land was purchased at £60 per acre the specified price no matter where it was or what was on it. It nearly broke him, we were all very bitter about it for years but he re-started, rebuilt and we all got over it, we had to. Now Hemel Hempstead sits over what was my dads farm. 
Regards
Michael
PS STILL UNDECIDED WHERE TO GO THOUGH North or South?


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## Veronica (Apr 5, 2008)

MRW said:


> Hi Veronica,
> That is what I expected but thank you for your input.
> I have a Solicitor in the UK that has been our family solicitor for 40 years, unfortunately about to retire. He put me in touch with a UK solicitor that has a property in North Cyprus and I talked to him at some length before I made the trip. He has been spending time in his house there since well before the 1974 division and he acts in conjunction with a solicitor in Lefkosa. I have been offered a property owned by a long standing friend of his which they inherited from his father. They live in the UK and have been using the house as a holiday home and winter retreat for many years, Unfortunately the owner is suffering from advancing Altzhiemers disease and can no longer make the trip so his wife wishes to sell the property to tidy up his estate and to use the money toward his private care for the time he has left. The first deeds of this property were in his fathers name from 1963 when it was built but were transferered to his sons name in 1997 so have been in the family name for 47 years.
> They have offered to rent the house to me for one year at a reasonable rate and agreed that at the end of that time I can buy the house at a price agreed today and the total rent for the year would be deducted from the purchase price if I buy it. Alternatively, I can simply walk away at the end of the year.
> ...


Mike as long as you make 100% sure that any property you buy in the North was pre 1974 Turkish Cypriot owned there isn't a problem. Unfortunately the vast majority of new properties are built on Greek Cypriot land as 88% ofthe land in the North is greek Cypriot owned.
If you decide on the North go to the Land registry in Nicosia before parting with a penny to make certain the land is not owned by a Greek Cypriot or foreign national who fled from the troubles. If it checks out in Nicosia then go ahead and buy.

*For anyone who plans to buy in the North thorough research is essential to protect your interests. *
DO NOT trust title deeds issued by the Turkish Government as these are not legal. Even so called 'exchange land' is often land which the rightful owners have not agreed to exchange and is just the Turkish Governments ploy to try to get around things.
Do not take the word of any developers or agents as they will do their best to sell you a property and tell you whatever they think will achieve that end.

Veronica


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## MRW (Apr 18, 2010)

Thanks Veronica, I do thank you for your genuine concern and I will definitely take your advice as you have some considerable experience of the island and I always believe it better to take as much advice as you can get, throw it all into the melting pot in your mind, take time to weigh up all angles but finally it can only be an individuals decision and then he has to face up to whatever result transpires rather than blame the advisers.
That is really why I will rent a property for a year to start my life out there. There can be no better way to get to the bottom of all thoughts about a place than actually living there. 
Incidentally you remember I wanted to find someone to take me around the South when I came out? well that is exactly what I had in Turkey (Side) and in the North I had three different guys taking me all over the place in the North and went to places I would never have found. I tried to pay them but none would accept a penny apart from filling their fuel tanks. Just a thought but there could be an opening there for paid guides to visitors that wanted to be shown areas in relatively short times. 
Thanks again,
Mike


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## roniebabes (Mar 27, 2008)

Please please listen to Veronica.........Cherie Blair may have poked her nose in but as Veronica said, anything after 1974 IS NOT THIERS TO SELL!!!!! They are Turks up there, it is not thier property. My husband was there in 1974 and in the 80's trying to defend life and property for the Cypriots and so much has been stolen from them.
So yes, many hundreds of Brits are buying property there, I can understand why, it is cheap.....but please remember what Veronica has told you and how much blood was spilt in the theft of all that land!


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## MRW (Apr 18, 2010)

Hi,
Thank you very much for your quite impassioned reply, it is nice to know British people out there do care about us and keep an eye out for us newbie pensioners to avoid us being fleeced. 
Perhaps you did not read my first reply to Veronica. I have a solicitor now in Nicosia who I commisioned to look into the property I have in mind, and to research the original land owner and the transfer deeds to check against the information I have been given. I have also appointed a Solicitor in a London practice that deal with North Cyprus on a regular basis and have done for more than 50 years. I now have a copy of the original transfer sale deed of the plot of land to the current owner which is dated March 1969. There are also copies of the original plans for builing the house and the bill for completion of the construction which was completed in October 1972. The original land owner was British, the size of the plot sold was 3 donum and this was sold to the current owner from part of a much larger estate that the family have owned there for 4 generations. The deeds confirm that the house was built in 1972 and has remained in the family since that time, Passed from father to son. I am therefore advised by both solicitors that he is the rightful owner of the house during Greek Cypriot administration and now under Turkish rule and that there are no loans charged against the property nor have there ever been. The property is by no means 'cheap' but if compared to UK property prices it is less than half what it would cost here and it certainly has that 'location, location' appeal. 
I still have a great deal to weigh up between North & South, effect on my state pension, having to pay for my health treatment, being outside of the EU umbrella. (But perhaps not for long)
Against that: The beauty of the north, undeveloped, quieter and yes, this house is cheaper than I could buy similar in the south. You see, unless ALL the web sites of the estate agents in the south are simply propping up a false market then most properties I look at in the south appear to be very overvalued set against average earnings, GDP, and debt. Who knows, maybe its a historic thing relating to Migrating second home buyers from the UK, but I am afraid those days are long gone and not likely to return for many years, still perhaps it will find a natural realistic level soon. 

My next trip will be to the South to scout and survey areas there before I settle in Cyprus in September which is when I really retire. I hope when I do I can meet some of you guys and buy you dinner or a drink to thank you for all your help. 

Another point I have to consider is risk. I am not sure if you read English newspapers? I have had 34 years in business and I do follow the city, what is happening, trading, currency exchange. Most recent city warnings covering EU warn that some of the EU members are likely to withdraw from the Euro by the end of this year or early next. So there is a risk in the foreseeable future regarding certain Euro notes. It is now believed that Greece and Portugal will be the first to drop out of the single currency as both of their ecconomies are still in very serious trouble and there can bo no further bailing out. Spain is close to the edge with much of its security against loans on real eastate which is now estimated to be worth less than half the security value. The other high risk notes are those beginning with serial Nos starting with G (Cyprus) - S (Italy) - V (Spain) - T (Ireland) and F (Malta). All of those countries Show default borrowings that are impossible to repay, even if the world trade improved so they are very likely to drop out and revert to their own currencies. If and when they do drop out those notes will only carry the exchange vales to the old currency which will undoubtedly be very poor. 

Thank you again, your comments will also be included in my melting plot.


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## roniebabes (Mar 27, 2008)

MRW said:


> Hi,
> Thank you very much for your quite impassioned reply, it is nice to know British people out there do care about us and keep an eye out for us newbie pensioners to avoid us being fleeced.
> Perhaps you did not read my first reply to Veronica. I have a solicitor now in Nicosia who I commisioned to look into the property I have in mind, and to research the original land owner and the transfer deeds to check against the information I have been given. I have also appointed a Solicitor in a London practice that deal with North Cyprus on a regular basis and have done for more than 50 years. I now have a copy of the original transfer sale deed of the plot of land to the current owner which is dated March 1969. There are also copies of the original plans for builing the house and the bill for completion of the construction which was completed in October 1972. The original land owner was British, the size of the plot sold was 3 donum and this was sold to the current owner from part of a much larger estate that the family have owned there for 4 generations. The deeds confirm that the house was built in 1972 and has remained in the family since that time, Passed from father to son. I am therefore advised by both solicitors that he is the rightful owner of the house during Greek Cypriot administration and now under Turkish rule and that there are no loans charged against the property nor have there ever been. The property is by no means 'cheap' but if compared to UK property prices it is less than half what it would cost here and it certainly has that 'location, location' appeal.
> I still have a great deal to weigh up between North & South, effect on my state pension, having to pay for my health treatment, being outside of the EU umbrella. (But perhaps not for long)
> ...


You are right, I did not read your first e/mail that referred to dates, I am a teacher, I don't read things properly!!!! I am leaving Spain in 3 days to return to Cyprus, and taking a pay cut, why, because Cyprus is right for my husband and I. You must do what feels right for you and yours! Yes I am impassioned, my hubby did all the long dirty jobs for the British Govt (if you get my drift) and received no real thanks. I have seen much poverty in Spain and the consequences of high unemployment and I am returning to a country that is not as affluant as it was 3 yrs ago when I left it but, like you I am guided by my heart. I wish you well in your life and a while before you are going to visit please contact me via the forum, it will be great to meet up for a drink. Best Wishes!!!!!


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