# Youth with no Future



## Sonrisa (Sep 2, 2010)

Not sure if I am allowed to post this....but there are plans for a big protest in Madrid, APril 7th at 7pm in Plaza Anton Martin.

And other locations all over Spain. 

I whish I could join. 

More information here (in spanish) Juventud SIN Futuro: Convocatorias


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## nigele2 (Dec 25, 2009)

Sadly I'm not hopeful that this will be a great success. For a start it is planned at 19:00. As unemployed youth what is that all about? 

They need to block castellana or occupy a government building if they are to get the message across. But I wish them every success.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

nigele2 said:


> Sadly I'm not hopeful that this will be a great success. For a start it is planned at 19:00. As unemployed youth what is that all about?
> 
> They need to block castellana or occupy a government building if they are to get the message across. But I wish them every success.


Hopefully the numbers will swell as the night goes on. The Portugal equivalent last month (_Geracao a rasca_) attracted 300,000 demonstrators. I wish them the best of luck.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

What is it that they are hoping to achieve with the protest Sonrisa?
And what's the problem with 19:00 nigele2??


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## nigele2 (Dec 25, 2009)

Pesky Wesky said:


> And what's the problem with 19:00 nigele2??


Pesky just who is going to be inconvenienced by a march at 19:00?

The youth of the country need to make it clear that the destruction of their lives is not a price they are willing to pay just to maintain the high life for the criminal classes who run Spain.

Spain needs a new lead but the current system is designed to prevent change. Instead of spanish leaders licking the rear end of German leaders they need to stand up for Spain and create jobs. It is only difficult because the spanish upper classes are crooks and are not going to give up one centimo for the youth of spain. 

Spain IMHO  needs for a start the crooks to be locked up and the assets seized; a new constitution, a defaulting on debts, a removal of bottom end taxes, an increase of upper end taxes, enforcement of the law with regard tax evasion, changes to the inheritance rules so that properties do not go to ruin because of lack of agreement between many owners and that older people with money are encouraged to spend it, a removal of red tape, ... just for starters.

But going for an evening stroll certainly won't bring about anything like that


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## Guest (Apr 6, 2011)

nigele2 said:


> Spain IMHO  needs for a start the crooks to be locked up and the assets seized; a new constitution, a defaulting on debts, a removal of bottom end taxes, an increase of upper end taxes, enforcement of the law with regard tax evasion, changes to the inheritance rules so that properties do not go to ruin because of lack of agreement between many owners and that older people with money are encouraged to spend it, a removal of red tape, ... just for starters.
> 
> But going for an evening stroll certainly won't bring about anything like that


Word has it one of the major political parties is in the market for a leader... you up for it?


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

nigele2 said:


> Pesky just who is going to be inconvenienced by a march at 19:00?


Just about _everybody_ halydia!!
Anton Martin is a small central square very near Atocha (major train station, bus route near Parado and Tyssen so getting shoppers, commuters and tourists)
And very near Sol (Ditto brackets above and add on huge shopping centre)
They're all unemployed anyway, so they're not missing any time off work.
All the people going to, the protest itself and all the people leaving will cause havoc for many people and will effect the whole of Madrid. When it's finished there be loads of young people on the look out for a drink so all the bars will undoubtedly reap benefits!!
19:00 - prerfect timimg for a young people's protest in Madrid!

A protest is always good for drawing people's attention to a plight, but I don't think there's anyone in Spain who's not aware of it. IMO there need to target politicians and political establishments not inhabitants of Madrid or any other city.

If nothing else they'll feel better for having let off a bit of steam, but it won't make one little, teeny, microscopic difference to their employment situation.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Thinking about it, as I understand it one of the aims of a protest is to drawing people's attention to your situation. So, perhaps the Spanish should hold their strike in Leeds or Bristol where it seems that people really don't know what's happening in Spain.


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## nigele2 (Dec 25, 2009)

Pesky Wesky said:


> ........... IMO there need to target politicians and political establishments not inhabitants of Madrid or any other city.


Sadly to target politicians you must either hurt the economy or do them physical harm. This evening stroll does neither. And as you say if the youth of Spain want action they need to do more than inform the masses of what they already know. Why can't they occupy a government building or block Castellana at 8am in the morning? Is it because deep down they believe this problem has no solution? 

As for inconvenience everyone knows when this will happen so they will simply avoid shopping that evening or go somewhere else. Workers can either go home early or take a day off, just like many were told to do the day of the national strike. 

But for any inconvenienced Madrileños I ask them "so you think the youth should be grateful for 40% unemployment and a bankrupt state?". As the saying goes you're either with us or against us :boxing:


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

nigele2 said:


> Sadly to target politicians you must either hurt the economy or do them physical harm. This evening stroll does neither. And as you say if the youth of Spain want action they need to do more than inform the masses of what they already know. Why can't they occupy a government building or block Castellana at 8am in the morning? Is it because deep down they believe this problem has no solution?
> 
> As for inconvenience everyone knows when this will happen so they will simply avoid shopping that evening or go somewhere else. Workers can either go home early or take a day off, just like many were told to do the day of the national strike.
> 
> But for any inconvenienced Madrileños I ask them "so you think the youth should be grateful for 40% unemployment and a bankrupt state?". As the saying goes you're either with us or against us :boxing:


Agree with everything you say here nigele2 except


> As for inconvenience everyone knows when this will happen so they will simply avoid shopping that evening or go somewhere else. Workers can either go home early or take a day off, just like many were told to do the day of the national strike.


Life doesn't work that way. If you're just going window shopping you might call it off, but if you've got an appointment, meeting, got to get to the chemists, and more importantly - get home ... Also, you know that for however hard they try it's difficult to get Spanish and organization in the same sentence, so probably 50% of Madrileños will have no idea that there's going to be a demonstration. Add to that the tourists... And having a day off - you have got to be joking nigele2, in today's climate, have a day off 'cos someone else that is nothing to do with you is going to demonstrate?? I think not


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## nigele2 (Dec 25, 2009)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Agree with everything you say here nigele2 except
> 
> Life doesn't work that way. If you're just going window shopping you might call it off, but if you've got an appointment, meeting, got to get to the chemists


At 19:00? This won't bring Madrid to its knees  And there are dozens of Chemists with a network open all night.



Pesky Wesky said:


> ... Also, you know that for however hard they try it's difficult to get Spanish and organization in the same sentence, so probably 50% of Madrileños will have no idea that there's going to be a demonstration.






Pesky Wesky said:


> Add to that the tourists... And having a day off - you have got toe joking nigele2, in today's climate, have a day off 'cos someone else that is nothing to do with you is going to demonstrate?? I think not


The tourists will love it.  And the companies simply demand that you take the time off and make it up another day - they did that for the strike.

About the only good thing about this march is that afterwards there will be temporary job creation - sticker removers from shop windows


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## nigele2 (Dec 25, 2009)

Gracias to the BBC :

"The number of Spanish people filing for unemployment benefits rose for its eighth consecutive month in March. The benefit claimant count rose by 34,406 people, to a new record of 4.3 million, the Labour Ministry said.

......

Youth unemployment remained a critical problem, with 12,830 lay-offs in March hitting people under 25 years old. European Union data showed that youth unemployment in Spain was 43.5% in February."

 So presumably even higher in March. It just gets more and more scary


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## Sonrisa (Sep 2, 2010)

nigele2 said:


> Gracias to the BBC :
> 
> "The number of Spanish people filing for unemployment benefits rose for its eighth consecutive month in March. The benefit claimant count rose by 34,406 people, to a new record of 4.3 million, the Labour Ministry said.
> 
> ...





Yes I read that too, yesterday. Tragic. 

I hope you are mistaken about the demostration failing to attract good numbers. In the past many demostrations have been able to get good numbers, remember not such long time ago, a protest that took place also in madrid against the iraq war. 

I don't know what they are looking to achieve and if it will have any impact at all, but it is a start and it is getting publicity from reputable newspapers such as el pais, so I hope there'll be a good attendance.

http://www.elpais.com/articulo/economia/Juventud/futuro/imita/vecinos/portugueses/elpepueco/20110405elpepueco_9/Tes

Agains, wish I was there, so I could join


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

nigele2 said:


> Gracias to the BBC :
> 
> "The number of Spanish people filing for unemployment benefits rose for its eighth consecutive month in March. The benefit claimant count rose by 34,406 people, to a new record of 4.3 million, the Labour Ministry said.
> 
> ...




That _*IS*_ scary, and as you say only likely to get worse...

As far as all night chemists go (your previous post), the whole idea is if you are inconvenienced or not, so if I can't go to the chemist I want to at the time I want to, or can't catch the train I want when I want, then I've been incovenienced - objective ontained.

I hope the demonstration does bring results, but I really don't see how it's going to change anything or benefit anyone. I think a different target and a different strategy is needed, but let's see what happens!!


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## nigele2 (Dec 25, 2009)

Sonrisa said:


> Yes I read that too, yesterday. Tragic.
> 
> I hope you are mistaken about the demonstration failing to attract good numbers. n


I believe from the papers that the Portuguese equivalent organisation had 56000+ members/registered supporters and managed to bring 300000 (200000 in Lisbon) out onto the streets. And they managed to get people of all ages to join them.

The Spanish group has way less than 5000 members/registered supporters.

You'd think that with Portugal's unemployment being more or less half that of Spain that it wouldn't be difficult to bring Madrid to a standstill but as Pesky said "difficult to get Spanish and organization in the same sentence" and the Spanish (IMHO) do love to procrastinate  

Sadly many of the things I like about the spanish seem to be the things that indirectly do them the most harm


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Such a rate of youth unemployment is serious not only for the present time but for the future.
I thought the UK situation was dire enough but 46% + is a terrible indictment of any Government.
Sadly, I have come to the conclusion that demos and marches achieve nothing. I must have worn out several pairs of shoes marching for and against so many causes from the Vietnam War to dozens of anti-Maggie protests to various demos against various bad things such as Cruise missiles and for various good things such as increased student grants.
None achieved anything.
Huge numbers protested against the cuts in London two weeks ago, no change in policy. 
A quarter of a million marched against war in Iraq in February 2003. Invasion of Iraq March 2003.
Harming the economy is an own goal in times of crisis, Nigel.
I honestly do not know how you make democratically-elected Governments change course.
If this level of youth and general unemployment doesn't make politicians all over Europe realise that cutting public spending in a time of economic slowdown is a recipe for recession, nothing will.
The powerbrokers in Europe -Merkel, Sarkozy in particular - should come to their senses and understand that the only way to kickstart the troubled peripheral EU economies is a programme of structured default.
Putting people on the dole and cutting down public spending will increase indebtedness, reduce tax revenue, depress an already sluggish economy ....all in order to pay high yield debts to investors who knew the risks they were taking on ..hence the high yields.
Workers in Spain, Ireland, Greece and Portugal are actually paying the price for bailing out German pensioners, if the truth be told.


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## Guest (Apr 6, 2011)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Just about _everybody_ halydia!!



HEY! I didn't say anything! BLAME NIGELE!


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

halydia said:


> HEY! I didn't say anything! BLAME NIGELE!


Yes, sorry - realised hours after I'd posted it and couldn't fix it 

Personally, I blame nigele2!!!:tongue1:


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## Guest (Apr 6, 2011)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Yes, sorry - realised hours after I'd posted it and couldn't fix it
> 
> Personally, I blame nigele2!!!:tongue1:


OH NO! 
This does bring up a good question... what happened to nigele1?


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## nigele2 (Dec 25, 2009)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Yes, sorry - realised hours after I'd posted it and couldn't fix it
> 
> Personally, I blame nigele2!!!:tongue1:


OK I own up, it's all my fault  

Halydia I think in that exchange you became 'collateral damage' as they say 

Tonight I had a discussion with the folks in Madrid. I offered that anyone tainted by corruption should be banned from serving in any senior government position. They all laughed and agreed in Spain the government would need to be made up of foreigners


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## nigele2 (Dec 25, 2009)

halydia said:


> OH NO!
> This does bring up a good question... what happened to nigele1?


I knew 'nigele2' was a mistake. e2 is my company, nigel is my name 

Funnily enough a few years back I was involved in a head on collision just by Stonehenge. I made the call for the emergency services and of course they said 'where are you?' Didn't have a clue until I turned round and saw the stones. Next day I should have been working for the Welsh gov with my business partner. When he explained my absence without hesitation the IT Manager said " I guess your E1 now". Nice guy


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## Guest (Apr 6, 2011)

nigele2 said:


> OK I own up, it's all my fault
> 
> Halydia I think in that exchange you became 'collateral damage' as they say
> 
> Tonight I had a discussion with the folks in Madrid. I offered that anyone tainted by corruption should be banned from serving in any senior government position. They all laughed and agreed in Spain the government would need to be made up of foreigners


:hurt:


Regarding your discussion with Madrid, excuses!!! 
Examples need to be made... Señorito Camps, anyone?... and some attitudes prevalent in "older" generations need to change, but I think Spain can do it.


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## nigele2 (Dec 25, 2009)

Attendance between 1000 (guardia estimate) and 5000 (JsF est.) so probably 3000 mas o menos 

Average attendance at Real Madrid 70000 
Demo in Portugal (with 10million pop.) in Lisbon last month 200000 :clap2:

Perhaps the rest will turn up tomorrow (manaña) ????

o perhaps the spanish society is totally corrupt, broken, and without hope? 

Hope if you're looking up from hell Franco you feel really proud 

At least a few guardia got a bit of overtime.


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