# Getting into the EU/Working in the EU



## Zoom (Jul 7, 2008)

Hello, Just a quick one. If I marry a Spanish girl - she's 25, I'm late 40's (does that look suspect to the authorities?) - will that allow me to live and work in the original 13 (?) EU member Countries? I'm mainly interested in things freeing up for me in France since I have an Apartment in Paris and would like to do a little work there (fashion photography - test shots for the new models agencies get. Not as crazy, and disturbing, as trying to work with well known models - maybe stay longer than 3 months (rent a studio, nothing fancy). 

My French is far from fluent at this point. Do I have to learn fluent - I know the French request it for their country - Spanish? How long would it take more or less for this who thing, from begining to end? My Spanish friend wants a US green card and is sick of the short 3 month VW plan so it's a 2 way street - we possibly can help each other out. Thanks , Zoom


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Zoom said:


> Hello, Just a quick one. If I marry a Spanish girl - she's 25, I'm late 40's (does that look suspect to the authorities?) - will that allow me to live and work in the original 13 (?) EU member Countries? I'm mainly interested in things freeing up for me in France since I have an Apartment in Paris and would like to do a little work there (fashion photography - test shots for the new models agencies get. Not as crazy, and disturbing, as trying to work with well known models - maybe stay longer than 3 months (rent a studio, nothing fancy).
> 
> My French is far from fluent at this point. Do I have to learn fluent - I know the French request it for their country - Spanish? How long would it take more or less for this who thing, from begining to end? My Spanish friend wants a US green card and is sick of the short 3 month VW plan so it's a 2 way street - we possibly can help each other out. Thanks , Zoom


There is a major recession in Europe and work is extremely scarce, especially for expats and evenmore especially for non fluent expats. And I believe France always look after their own first and whoever you maybe illegally married to, you wont be anyones first choice for anything, even if you were totally fluent and Spain is the same


I personally wouldnt bother, the US (if thats where you are) is far better placed for you to gain work and of course what you're suggesting isnt the right side of the law! So we're not gonna be telling you its ok, cos it isnt and its a totally pointless waste of time IMO

Jo xxx


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## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

The one little flaw in your plan is the matter of establishing legal residence somewhere. If you're planning to be in France as the spouse of an EU national, it is assumed that both members of the couple are resident (i.e. tax resident) in France, so you'll be expected to declare and pay taxes (and possibly social insurances) on both incomes unless you get a court-ordered legal separation - which puts your right to remain in France in jeopardy.

Getting your friend a US green card also requires you to establish residence in the US in order to support the visa application. Which means you pay taxes on your worldwide income to the US, with no earned income exclusion.

You might get away with it, but it seems an expensive way to do things.
Cheers,
Bev


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## Suenneil (Feb 17, 2009)

Zoom said:


> Hello, Just a quick one.
> 
> 
> > If I marry a Spanish girl - she's 25, I'm late 40's (does that look suspect to the authorities?)
> ...


If you are asking the question does it mean you know its suspect ?!?!?!?! I know a few couples with biggish age differences but I cant say Ive ever heard them ask such a question because presumably they married each other for the right reasons!
Im a bit niaive I suppose, in that I always think and hope that people do their best to get what they want out of life by doing the right thing, in the right way, and within the boundaries of the Law of the Country in which they live .... for those that choose not to, then there is always the risk of being "found out" at some point - and then there is a price to be paid for that.

On a more practical note, Jo´s comments regarding employment and opportunities in the EU are so true, and at the moment the situation is pretty dire - and Spain is suffering a lot more than most ....the grass is certainly not always greener 

Sue:ranger:


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## jkchawner (Dec 21, 2008)

Zoom said:


> Hello, Just a quick one. If I marry a Spanish girl - she's 25, I'm late 40's (does that look suspect to the authorities?) - will that allow me to live and work in the original 13 (?) EU member Countries? I'm mainly interested in things freeing up for me in France since I have an Apartment in Paris and would like to do a little work there (fashion photography - test shots for the new models agencies get. Not as crazy, and disturbing, as trying to work with well known models - maybe stay longer than 3 months (rent a studio, nothing fancy).
> 
> My French is far from fluent at this point. Do I have to learn fluent - I know the French request it for their country - Spanish? How long would it take more or less for this who thing, from begining to end? My Spanish friend wants a US green card and is sick of the short 3 month VW plan so it's a 2 way street - we possibly can help each other out. Thanks , Zoom


lol that post has just made my day :juggle:
handcuff's also your passion maybe 
and now you have just posted your intention's on the world wide web for all to see :clap2:


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## scharlack (Nov 21, 2008)

Zoom said:


> Hello, Just a quick one. If I marry a Spanish girl - she's 25, I'm late 40's (does that look suspect to the authorities?) - will that allow me to live and work in the original 13 (?) EU member Countries? I'm mainly interested in things freeing up for me in France since I have an Apartment in Paris and would like to do a little work there (fashion photography - test shots for the new models agencies get. Not as crazy, and disturbing, as trying to work with well known models - maybe stay longer than 3 months (rent a studio, nothing fancy).
> 
> My French is far from fluent at this point. Do I have to learn fluent - I know the French request it for their country - Spanish? How long would it take more or less for this who thing, from begining to end? My Spanish friend wants a US green card and is sick of the short 3 month VW plan so it's a 2 way street - we possibly can help each other out. Thanks , Zoom


The option I see here is: sell your apartment in Paris and set up a biz in France. That should allow you to get away with a resident visa.

I suspect the marriage stuff is not the ideal option as the EU immigration is well aware of this type of arranged weddings as well as you could be deported and not allowed to enter the EU again for X number of years.... not sure on what the laws are on this.

Good luck with whatever you decide to do!


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## Zoom (Jul 7, 2008)

Thanks very much to all for responding - especially to Bev and Scharlack for not going into a slight "lecture mode" but instead giving some useful information in a non judgemental style (I mean that in the kindest way). Let me throw out a few FYI kinda things just to make everything a bit clearer -

Dear JK, if you look at my passport you will not find the name Zoom on it. Same with any other info... The USA is busy "smokin' Bin Laden out", they don't have time to busy up with some small fry evil doer law breaker like me - lol (plus who said that was my "intention", could have just been some spaced out prescription medication induced pipe dream fantasy of mine). 

Second, as far as "doing the right thing" as soon as the USA STARTS I shall follow. My Spanish friend (or millions of other friends and family) can't get a green card without waiting for years and years but yet the USA gives out thousands of instant Green Cards with their World Wide Visa Lotto Program. So if I need my friend to help me with some work she's especially good at well that practice would be completely wrong but it's OK if some total stranger to the USA sends in a postcard from some God forsaken place and gets picked to go to the front of the Green Card Visa line while others wait forever, screw us Tax Payers - and I pay a ton being "self employed". So that's the right way to be treated by Uncle Sam? Hardly IMHO. 

Now it has become pretty obvious that Universal, Single Payer Health Care is dead in this country (and if it's dead now it's dead FOR EVER - the planets are lined up perfectly at this moment to pass it) - the Last Industrialized Country on this planet to not have it. So we will continue to go forward with having insurance companies - who use up 35% of the cash in the Health Care system - deny treatment or tests (I had a 40 something year old very close friend with Cancer die due to this murderous practice - would never had happened in France, Canada, Sweden, or many other truly civilized countries - including the entire EU (which is one of the main reasons I want out of the grand old USA). He suffered for 2 years like no one EVER should. And don't get me wrong, he HAD HEALTH INSURANCE through his work - (but it was far from the best). They still took forever deciding what tests they'd approve - this is not rare, it's happening ALL THE TIME now in the USA). 

One last thing for Sue - "one should always follow the laws of the land they live in?" OK, so following that logic, lynching black people in the south many decades ago was kosher because the Government looked the other way - sort of approved of it? Killing 100,000's of innocent Iraqi's to capture one "bad man" - Sadam - is acceptable because the brilliant USA says it is? Saudi Arabia is correct in not allowing women to drive? To vote? Can't agree with you, sorry. Murder is murder and fake wars are no excuse for it. Men and Women are equal IMHO - can't agree with the Saudis. The world is a very ugly place and yes you are a bit naive IMHO.

'The grass isn't always greener?" I have family living in Sweden and 2 other Euro countries. I have friends from France to Italy to Egypt to Australia/Japan. I've been doing travel photography for decades, over 80 countries. I know how things work (sorry but I have to stick up for myself - not trying to brag. Gee, I'm making excuses for believing in life long education through world experiences - pretty sad on my part).

It's no secret the USA is in a massive decline and, at least for me and my GF, it's time to leave. I know Spain has 18% unemployment (but I have the work thing covered - I don't need Spain or France to make a living). With all that said I think I will take Scharlack and Bev's advice (on an earlier French post response) and go for opening a business in Paris. I have a friend who wants to move his restaurant from one "district" to another so possibly we can do a partnership sort of thing. So maybe I'll get in on that idea - don't mind spending a lot of my money in a very civilized country that puts it's people first - I would so appreciate being part of a country like that since America no longer believes in those kind of values. It is my belief that in order to respect a system it has to be somewhat fair to begin with - the American immigration system couldn't be further from that concept if it tried. Zoom

PS I've tried to be very respectful so please keep my post up and don't delete, Thanks


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Zoom said:


> PS I've tried to be very respectful so please keep my post up and don't delete, Thanks



I wouldnt dream of it, it depicts a very "American" attitude!

Jo xxx


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## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

I'm not entirely sure how you'll fare trying to get a long-stay visa for France based on setting up a business there. There used to be a sort of carte de séjour called a "carte de commerçant" but I haven't seen or heard anything about that one in a long time.

And while I'm sympathetic to many of your gripes about the US, I can guarantee you you'll find all sorts of outrageous stuff going on in France, too (or in Spain or Sweden, or anywhere you go in the EU). It's a different ball game over here, and it takes some time to get used to it when you're a resident.
Cheers,
Bev


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Bevdeforges said:


> I'm not entirely sure how you'll fare trying to get a long-stay visa for France based on setting up a business there. There used to be a sort of carte de séjour called a "carte de commerçant" but I haven't seen or heard anything about that one in a long time.
> 
> And while I'm sympathetic to many of your gripes about the US, I can guarantee you you'll find all sorts of outrageous stuff going on in France, too (or in Spain or Sweden, or anywhere you go in the EU). It's a different ball game over here, and it takes some time to get used to it when you're a resident.
> Cheers,
> Bev


The grass is always greener.......

Jo xxx


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## Guest (Aug 8, 2009)

Bevdeforges said:


> The one little flaw in your plan is the matter of establishing legal residence somewhere. If you're planning to be in France as the spouse of an EU national, it is assumed that both members of the couple are resident (i.e. tax resident) in France, so you'll be expected to declare and pay taxes (and possibly social insurances) on both incomes unless you get a court-ordered legal separation - which puts your right to remain in France in jeopardy.
> 
> Getting your friend a US green card also requires you to establish residence in the US in order to support the visa application. Which means you pay taxes on your worldwide income to the US, with no earned income exclusion.
> 
> ...


Totally agree. Its not that easy or everybody would be doing it. Becoming a resident of the country you want to work in is a must. Also you don´t mention what nationality you are?


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## Zoom (Jul 7, 2008)

jojo said:


> The grass is always greener.......
> 
> Jo xxx


I wouldn't know, my lawn mower is broke - LOL. Maybe I didn't mention that I have a small apartment in Paris and spend as much time there as I can. So, as far as the grass thing I'm not COMPLETELY living in fantasy land. Call me a strange sort of cat but one of the things I love about my Parisian neighborhood (7e) is I can walk for blocks and blocks and blocks, stop and chat to the nice Tunisian man at the late night market, and then get to my apartment at about 2 am and I have NEVER yet had a gun pulled on me or been robbed. If I did the same thing in my LA neighborhood I'd be dead by now for sure. I've had one family member and one friend shot and killed in the last 10 years and I live in an upper middle class neighborhood - no gangs, no guns. The grass may not be much greener in Paris but I bet there's a lot less blood on it........ Zoom

PS. Spain's a nice place. If I was to live there it would have to be the Andalusia region which I just love... Sevilla and Flamenco and great weather !!! Beautiful tan BTW Jo : )


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Zoom said:


> Beautiful tan BTW Jo


yes, my tan!! Well I had aa problem a few weeks ago with the chlorine in our pool, we put too much in (long story), anyway I came out in the most horrendous rash and literally scratched my tan off!! I had to take steroids to clear it up and my skin still isnt right! So I have no tan anymore and cos my skin is now supersensitive, I cant go in the sun!! So thats why I'm on here so much and lilywhite!!!!  

Jo xxxxx


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## Guest (Aug 8, 2009)

jojo said:


> yes, my tan!! Well I had aa problem a few weeks ago with the chlorine in our pool, we put too much in (long story), anyway I came out in the most horrendous rash and literally scratched my tan off!! I had to take steroids to clear it up and my skin still isnt right! So I have no tan anymore and cos my skin is now supersensitive, I cant go in the sun!! So thats why I'm on here so much and lilywhite!!!!
> 
> Jo xxxxx


Theres nothing wrong with white bits


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## Zoom (Jul 7, 2008)

jojo said:


> yes, my tan!! Well I had aa problem a few weeks ago with the chlorine in our pool, we put too much in (long story), anyway I came out in the most horrendous rash and literally scratched my tan off!! I had to take steroids to clear it up and my skin still isnt right! So I have no tan anymore and cos my skin is now supersensitive, I cant go in the sun!! So thats why I'm on here so much and lilywhite!!!!
> 
> Jo xxxxx


Is this permanent? I hope not, sun bathing is so relaxing (I need to get back into it like I once was). They had us all so freaked out here about laying out that now tons of people have a deficiency in Vitamin D (which we all know comes from the sun). So they are recommending a bit of laying out or sun exposure per day. Fear is the name of the game. I always felt better with a bit of a tan. I have to put in one of those fiberglass prefab pools, got it all planned out but the costs are much lower in Jan/Feb so I better wait, August is a bad month to do it financially. Hope the skin situation straightens out. Zoom


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Zoom said:


> Is this permanent? I hope not, sun bathing is so relaxing (I need to get back into it like I once was). They had us all so freaked out here about laying out that now tons of people have a deficiency in Vitamin D (which we all know comes from the sun). So they are recommending a bit of laying out or sun exposure per day. Fear is the name of the game. I always felt better with a bit of a tan. I have to put in one of those fiberglass prefab pools, got it all planned out but the costs are much lower in Jan/Feb so I better wait, August is a bad month to do it financially. Hope the skin situation straightens out. Zoom



I hope its not permenant or I'll be better off in the UK!!! I'm hoping that once its healed properly, I can gradually introduce the sun again! At the mo, I only go out in it when I'm out doing things, shopping, hanging washing out etc. Its a bloody niusance!!!  

I'm really conscious of the vitamin D problem, in fact vitamin D is one of the most important vitamins, not only does it contribute to healthy bones, teeth etc. but it helps all the others vitamins and minerals to be absorbed (as do fats!) and the vitD suppliments you can buy over the counter arent the same. I've never held much belief in this "stay out of the sun" mantra. Burning is bad, but a bit of healthy sunshine, not only makes us feel better, but its natural and us humans have lived under it since forever!!!!!


Jo xx


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## Suenneil (Feb 17, 2009)

Zoom said:


> Thanks very much to all for responding - especially to Bev and Scharlack for not going into a slight "lecture mode" but instead giving some useful information in a non judgemental style (I mean that in the kindest way). Let me throw out a few FYI kinda things just to make everything a bit clearer -
> 
> Dear JK, if you look at my passport you will not find the name Zoom on it. Same with any other info... The USA is busy "smokin' Bin Laden out", they don't have time to busy up with some small fry evil doer law breaker like me - lol (plus who said that was my "intention", could have just been some spaced out prescription medication induced pipe dream fantasy of mine).
> 
> ...



Rest assured I am not niave! I used that word a little tongue in cheek in my earlier reply. And I certainly did not want to "lecture" you either .... I dont know how you feel able to compare me suggesting people move to one Country and abide by the relevant laws to lynching black people, finding Saddam Hussein and the laws in Saudi Arabia. Each Country implements their own Laws - and if as individuals we dont feel able to abide by those rules then we dont go and live there - that was the point I was making. I left the UK to come to Spain legally, and continue to live her legally - abiding by whatever laws are in place.

I sincerely wish you luck wherever you choose to finally settle.

Sue :ranger:


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## scharlack (Nov 21, 2008)

Zoom said:


> I wouldn't know, my lawn mower is broke - LOL. Maybe I didn't mention that I have a small apartment in Paris and spend as much time there as I can. So, as far as the grass thing I'm not COMPLETELY living in fantasy land. Call me a strange sort of cat but one of the things I love about my Parisian neighborhood (7e) is I can walk for blocks and blocks and blocks, stop and chat to the nice Tunisian man at the late night market, and then get to my apartment at about 2 am and I have NEVER yet had a gun pulled on me or been robbed. If I did the same thing in my LA neighborhood I'd be dead by now for sure. I've had one family member and one friend shot and killed in the last 10 years and I live in an upper middle class neighborhood - no gangs, no guns. The grass may not be much greener in Paris but I bet there's a lot less blood on it........ Zoom
> 
> PS. Spain's a nice place. If I was to live there it would have to be the Andalusia region which I just love... Sevilla and Flamenco and great weather !!! Beautiful tan BTW Jo : )


Just stopped by to wish you luck on whatever you decide!


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## ars338 (Apr 20, 2009)

Being American also, I totally understand your frustation over all the issues you brought up,
especially the issue of health care, which I could pay double my current tax rate and still save money on insurance premiums if we had a national plan and on immigration to the EU which is almost immpossible for Americans under the current rules.

Having an apartment in Paris and having the "work thing" taken care of by being self-employed implies that you should also have access to an attorney in the US or France who would be able to provide better advise than anyone here. 

I know that your proposed marriage situation to obtain a Green Card for your GF is a unfortunely quite common. However, I would research the situation on your move to France more throughly and thru the proper channels before saying "I do".


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## Nicemec (Oct 7, 2009)

Zoom, there is a special kind of man or woman that decides to uproot and try their luck elsewhere..
Without these pioneers, we may all still live in the planes of Africa in I suspect rather crowded circumstances. It is rather disappointing to read all the rather patronising comments from various people. When Europeans wanted to they just moved army and men and women to every continent and took whatever they wanted. Today we say to others, “don’t bother coming to Europe, there are no jobs …”. Fact of the matter is that no matter what the economic circumstances may be, you may be perfectly able to make a living and lead a happy life. If getting a marriage arrangement is the way to go, well good luck to you.

There are thousands of Australians for instance who get in arranged marriages in the UK as it does suit both parties. I think that everyone understands the limitations of the various states legislations but these are obstacles to overcome. Man is trying to better himself. In order to achieve that, he crossed oceans, rivers, mountains etc… There are actually many more Europeans living today illegally in the USA than the other way round. Well look at every Caucasian in the USA and ponder where they came from !

Actually, the economic situation in the UK is rather bad, but I am convinced that I could make a good living in the US if only I was able to get my Green Card. I am certain that someone else may come over here and do better than most people may perceive is achievable. 

Good luck again with your endeavours


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## jockm (Jun 23, 2009)

*Very interesting....*

Zoom's situation is reminiscent of Xaiohouzi's - fed up with the US, with the possibility of marrying a Spanish woman to get EU residency (although there was the issue of the Romanian wife also...). Interesting!


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## Hombre (Sep 10, 2009)

This "Zoom " guy does'nt come over as such a nice kind of person does he ?


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Zoom said:


> and ).
> 
> 
> 
> ...


And you are illogical, IMHO. If we follow your line of thinking then it's 'kosher' to do whatever we feel like doing, legal or illegal, as in your eyes it's OK if the state allows or tacitly sanctions it, or at the very least, explicitly fails to condemn or prohibit it.
A profoundly selfish and immoral credo which if practised widely would surely lead to anarchy and chaos.
By the way, have you posted under another name recently? Your post evokes echoes of a similar thread....


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Nicemec said:


> Zoom, there is a special kind of man or woman that decides to uproot and try their luck elsewhere..
> Without these pioneers, we may all still live in the planes of Africa in I suspect rather crowded circumstances. It is rather disappointing to read all the rather patronising comments from various people. When Europeans wanted to they just moved army and men and women to every continent and took whatever they wanted. Today we say to others, “don’t bother coming to Europe, there are no jobs …”. Fact of the matter is that no matter what the economic circumstances may be, you may be perfectly able to make a living and lead a happy life. If getting a marriage arrangement is the way to go, well good luck to you.
> 
> There are thousands of Australians for instance who get in arranged marriages in the UK as it does suit both parties. I think that everyone understands the limitations of the various states legislations but these are obstacles to overcome. Man is trying to better himself. In order to achieve that, he crossed oceans, rivers, mountains etc… There are actually many more Europeans living today illegally in the USA than the other way round. Well look at every Caucasian in the USA and ponder where they came from !
> ...


'Patronising' is a strange word to use as a description of people who tell the facts about the economic and social situation of the country they live in.
Especially as, according to you, we are 'special kinds of men and women who decide to uproot and try their luck elsewhere'.
Actually, many of us are just idle swine who have had enough of living in dreary old Northern Europe and are now enjoying the fruits of our labours in the sun.
At least, I'm in that category.
But into what category do you put the millions who are on the brink of economic destitution in developing nations who aren't 'special' enough to try their luck elsewhere? Those who are 'special' and are able to do so are mainly the privileged sons and daughters of the system that condemned the others to a life of poverty and oppression. The others wait in squalid refugee tent cities in Calais waiting for the chance to stow away in a truck to get to a better life employed on the black economy in the UK -often exploited with no security and working in appalling conditions.
I'm not sure what point you are trying to make but it could read as if you are advocating a rather selfish devil -take- all -attitude.
North America and Australia are not densely populated land masses. Plenty of room for more.
Europe or at least its western portion -is crowded and curently work is scarce. Fact. No doubt the time will come when the economy picks up and we will be sucking in workers from poorer countries to work for wages our own workers would turn their noses up at.
Of course, if you are young, fit and in possession of adequate means, the world is your oyster, as the saying goes.
I hope you don't think it patronising of me to point that out.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Nicemec said:


> Zoom, there is a special kind of man or woman that decides to uproot and try their luck elsewhere..
> Without these pioneers, we may all still live in the planes of Africa in I suspect rather crowded circumstances. It is rather disappointing to read all the rather patronising comments from various people. When Europeans wanted to they just moved army and men and women to every continent and took whatever they wanted. Today we say to others, “don’t bother coming to Europe, there are no jobs …”. Fact of the matter is that no matter what the economic circumstances may be, you may be perfectly able to make a living and lead a happy life. If getting a marriage arrangement is the way to go, well good luck to you.
> 
> There are thousands of Australians for instance who get in arranged marriages in the UK as it does suit both parties. I think that everyone understands the limitations of the various states legislations but these are obstacles to overcome. Man is trying to better himself. In order to achieve that, he crossed oceans, rivers, mountains etc… There are actually many more Europeans living today illegally in the USA than the other way round. Well look at every Caucasian in the USA and ponder where they came from !
> ...


What you need to remember is that people usually visit forums to ask advise and to find out more so they can gain the knowledge to make an informed choice. No one is patronising anyone. The question is asked and the answers (including yours) are given and they are given in good faith with varying degrees of experience


Jo xxx


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## Nicemec (Oct 7, 2009)

mrypg9 said:


> 'Patronising' is a strange word to use as a description of people who tell the facts about the economic and social situation of the country they live in.
> Especially as, according to you, we are 'special kinds of men and women who decide to uproot and try their luck elsewhere'.
> Actually, many of us are just idle swine who have had enough of living in dreary old Northern Europe and are now enjoying the fruits of our labours in the sun.
> At least, I'm in that category.
> ...




I have no objections when facts are pointed out like you have done above. It is not the case when I read some other entries in here. We well know that the situation is not the greatest right now. However I have just come back for an off the beat travel to West Africa and my thinking was: If I lived in this situation, I will be tempted to walk across the Sahara and risk my life to get in a boat to Europe. 
Please do not underestimate desperation of fellow human. No matter how bad the situation is in here, no one can walk into a hospital with a minor infection and be sent home without a course of antibiotics. I was appaled to see people in Africa who may well die of the same infection because there simply are no basic medical centre anywhere around them. And even if there were, well they could not afford it. 
All it takes is for one of these men and women to make it and their whole people benefit.

These are a bit extreme cases, but we have seen an influx of French people coming to the UK as economic migrants in the early 2000 when the French economy was not doing too well. We also have seen a wave of British poeple going to Spain to try their luck. Some did not make it, many others did and contributed to the local economy in the process.
I remember that just over 20 years ago, Spanish people used to hide as they could only work illegaly. And yes many of them saught to mary brits for the privilege. I personaly knew a vet who could only wash the dishes in a restaurant at the time. What a waste of talent. I suspect that he is doing so much better now.

One last observation: immigration picked up all car washers from my local Supermarket as they were illegal. Guess what, I have not seen a group of fellow brits replacing them. Shame as for just £4 I used to get my car washed !


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Nicemec said:


> I have no objections when facts are pointed out like you have done above. It is not the case when I read some other entries in here. We well know that the situation is not the greatest right now. However I have just come back for an off the beat travel to West Africa and my thinking was: If I lived in this situation, I will be tempted to walk across the Sahara and risk my life to get in a boat to Europe.
> Please do not underestimate desperation of fellow human. No matter how bad the situation is in here, no one can walk into a hospital with a minor infection and be sent home without a course of antibiotics. I was appaled to see people in Africa who may well die of the same infection because there simply are no basic medical centre anywhere around them. And even if there were, well they could not afford it.
> All it takes is for one of these men and women to make it and their whole people benefit.
> 
> ...


Not sure what your point is, but I certainly agree with you about the car washing!! I really admired those guys, they did a great job, worked their butts off and were using their initiative!! 

Jo xxx


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