# Padrón or residency first?



## Ramalamadingdong (May 26, 2020)

trying to live in Spain but what comes first, Padron or Residency?


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Ramalamadingdong said:


> trying to live in Spain but what comes first, Padron or Residency?


Depends where you are. Some places you need one to get the other, and vice versa. Welcome to Spain, with all its idiosyncrasies!


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Alcalaina said:


> Depends where you are. Some places you need one to get the other, and vice versa. Welcome to Spain, with all its idiosyncrasies!


It also depends on where you're from.

Non-EU citizens with a resident visa have to register on the padrón first, before applying for the TIE, which effectively 'registers' the visa.


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## Ramalamadingdong (May 26, 2020)

Interesting point, which comes first, residency or pardon. I have heard of no pardon no residency. Also when I tried to sign on the pardon recently at the town hall, the pardon had 16 people on it who had lived in the property previously, when I asked the clerk to remove them all he was not best pleased. I know some of them had died years ago.

Would that be classed as fraud or just acceptable procedure?


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Ramalamadingdong said:


> Interesting point, which comes first, residency or pardon. I have heard of no pardon no residency. Also when I tried to sign on the pardon recently at the town hall, the pardon had 16 people on it who had lived in the property previously, when I asked the clerk to remove them all he was not best pleased. I know some of them had died years ago.
> 
> Would that be classed as fraud or just acceptable procedure?


It's pretty much par for the course. People often just forget or don't bother to remove themselves when they move. The ayuntamiento gets funding based on the number of names on the padrón so they aren't in a hurry to remove anyone.

I went to the Ayuntamiento with one English couple to get them on the padrón (which they needed for residencia) and the house they had just purchased was still registered with a woman who had moved away ten years ago. The functionario didn't know how to de-register her, so now the three of them are officially cohabiting (even though they've never met).


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## Ramalamadingdong (May 26, 2020)

Thank you I now understand. The Padron registration is for life and even afterlife; it never expires or needs renewing. My only query is won’t Madrid ever run out of Padron money?


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

I think the ayuntamiento is supposed to review their padron every few years and some are actively contacting people on it to verify their residence status. But this obviously varies between municipalities, some have had an official letter, telephone call or personal visit from town hall, while others have heard nothing for years.


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## MataMata (Nov 30, 2008)

Non residents are not permitted to be on the padron, that's a simple fact.

My understanding is that strictly speaking a padron is not required for residency applications either but is routinely demanded as it's the only 'official' evidence that you do in fact reside where you claim to, something property deeds or rental agreements etc. can never do.

Many seem to believe that because a town hall issues them a padron then it must be correct but to jump up a post or two it amounts to fraud and there are potential penalties in law both for town halls and individuals.

A point not often appreciated is that signing on a padron is a legal declaration that you habitually or permanently reside at the address and that makes you tax resident whether you've applied for residency or not. 

True nobody seems to bother checking up on people but that doesn't give you immunity from possible consequences if they did, those can range from being denied tax relief on personal imports (such as a car) which applies during the first 6 months of residence, to very deep trouble with the tax man who will want to know why you've been living in Spain, in some cases for many years, yet never submitted a tax return.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Ramalamadingdong said:


> Thank you I now understand. The Padron registration is for life and even afterlife; it never expires or needs renewing. My only query is won’t Madrid ever run out of Padron money?


I thought you were serious for a minute!


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## Ramalamadingdong (May 26, 2020)

Alcalaina said:


> I thought you were serious for a minute!


Oh no, a 9 star forum bully.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Ramalamadingdong said:


> Oh no, a 9 star forum bully.


Please explain...


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