# Advice for travel to the US from the UK to visit daughters father



## Alli7 (Aug 26, 2014)

I'm planning to visit the USA from the uk with my baby daughter to visit my boyfriend (babies father) who is a US citizen. Intending to stay for less than 90 days and to have a return ticket and a letter from my university stating that i interrupted my studies to have a baby and will continue my masters in the new year. My daughter has a UK passport (well actually still waiting for it, been 3 months now) and her dad and i aren't married. I was wandering whether i'm likely to run into and border control problems? does she need a US passport, even though we've not yet established US citizenship for her, I think she is eligible for it if her father fills out a form promising financial support and we register her birth abroad at the embassy, not yet been able to do this as all of our documents are with the uk passport office. Can she enter the USA on a UK passport? do i need to state that her father is from the USA?
Eventually her father and I would like to get married, and i'd move over to the US, but for now we just want to visit, been 3 months since he had to return to the uSA and our daughter has grown so much already.
Any help is much appreciated.


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## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

Ooh, this could get tricky. Technically, as long as her father recognizes her (i.e. his name appears on her birth certificate) and he is capable of transmitting his citizenship, she is a US citizen from birth and is supposed to enter the US only on a US passport. Now, whether or not any of this will register when you actually enter the US and be picked up on by the immigration folks at the airport is anyone's guess. Probably not - given that her place of birth is the UK and there's no reason you would necessarily need to tell them that her father is a US citizen. (Unless, of course, you are asked point blank.)

Although there is a big fine involved if you're caught out, most folks I know of have simply been "sternly lectured" (at least the first time) when they don't have a US passport for their child on going to the US for the first time.
Cheers,
Bev


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## Alli7 (Aug 26, 2014)

Thanks, that's helpful. If I were to apply for a US passport for her, how would I go about this? she was actually born in Spain, I am still here with her waiting on her UK passport. Am I able to register her birth at the US embassy in Madrid without her father there? All our documents are with the UK passport office, and once I get them back i'll go to the UK, can I register the birth at the embassy in london? or does it have to be in embassy of the country the child was born? should her father do it?


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## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

You should probably check the website for the US Embassy (or consulate) in London and in Madrid to see what they require. You may have to click through a couple of links, but they should have a list of the specific documents they need - and one of them is "proof" of the US citizen parent's physical presence in the US for the requisite period of time to enable him/her to transmit nationality.
Cheers,
Bev


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## EVHB (Feb 11, 2008)

Maybe it's a good idea to wait for her American Citizenship! Because: you, with no real ties to your home country (no permanent job, not a house owner), with an American kid and an American boyfriend -> looks like the potential for wanting to stay in the US. They may refuse you access to the US?


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## Bellthorpe (Jun 23, 2013)

I don't see the issue. Arrive with kid in tow as a tourist, and to visit friends. Why would the father's identity come up at all? Where will you be staying? Tell them. Who is that? A friend. No mistruths.


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## Alli7 (Aug 26, 2014)

EVHB said:


> Maybe it's a good idea to wait for her American Citizenship! Because: you, with no real ties to your home country (no permanent job, not a house owner), with an American kid and an American boyfriend -> looks like the potential for wanting to stay in the US. They may refuse you access to the US?


This is what I was worried about, I do however have ties to the UK as I am due to continue my Masters degree at university, I paused my studies to have my daughter. So I don't know!


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## twostep (Apr 3, 2008)

Bellthorpe said:


> I don't see the issue. Arrive with kid in tow as a tourist, and to visit friends. Why would the father's identity come up at all? Where will you be staying? Tell them. Who is that? A friend. No mistruths.


Would you please refrain from suggesting actions which are obviously agains US law? 
The child has a US father and unless there are circumstances in his past which may prevent him from transferring citizenship to his child the child is a US citizen.


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## Bellthorpe (Jun 23, 2013)

As I said in my post, there are no mistruths. Which aspect of what I suggested is against the law, and if you suggest some component, which law does it breach?


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## BBCWatcher (Dec 28, 2012)

Bellthorpe, it is illegal -- against U.S. law -- for a U.S. citizen, even a yet-to-be-documented one, to enter the United States presenting anything other than a valid U.S. passport, with few exceptions that do not apply here (e.g. U.S. servicemen crossing borders).

There is only one legal way to proceed here: get the child her U.S. passport first, before she hops on a plane (or any other vehicle) to the United States.

If genuine emergency travel is required, there's a solution: ask the U.S. consulate or embassy to issue an emergency travel document (ETD) for her. An ETD is equivalent to a temporary U.S. passport but only good for one-way travel to the United States.


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## Bellthorpe (Jun 23, 2013)

The child, born out of wedlock, is not yet a US citizen - although it will be easy enough to become one.


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## BBCWatcher (Dec 28, 2012)

No, she is. From birth. She isn't a _documented_ citizen yet.

Please re-read what I wrote. It is correct. The U.S. State Department will tell you the same. You cannot legally skip documenting a child's U.S. citizenship and bring that child to the U.S. on a foreign passport. It's just simply illegal. I'm sure it happens, but it's against U.S. law.


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## Bellthorpe (Jun 23, 2013)

*Please check your own country's law*

Sigh. This is getting tiresome. 


32 CFR 584.5 - U.S. CITIZENSHIP DETERMINATIONS ON CHILDREN BORN OUT OF WEDLOCK IN A FOREIGN COUNTRY.

§ 584.5 U.S. citizenship determinations on children born out of wedlock in a foreign country.

(a) General.

(1) A child born out of wedlock in a foreign country of an American citizen father and an alien mother *does not automatically gain U.S. citizenship.* The child must first be legally acknowledged by the father. Marriage to the mother may be required in order for the child to acquire U.S. citizenship. The father also must establish that he had at least 10 years of physical presence in the United States prior to the child's birth. Five of those years must have been spent in the United States after the father's 14th birthday. United States military service counts as physical presence in the United States. (See 8 U.S.C. 1101(c)(1), 1401(g), and 1409(c).) Whether the child gains the citizenship of its mother depends entirely upon the laws of the nation in which she is a citizen.


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## BBCWatcher (Dec 28, 2012)

Yes, it is. _Ask the U.S. Department of State_, or at least ask their Web site. I believe you'll find that the answer to the passport question -- a different question! -- is as described.

I'll give you a hint. How does a child get permission to travel internationally? Answer (barring certain narrow exceptions): _with the permission of both parents_. Does it all make sense now?

No? OK, let me try again. 1. The only legal way for a U.S. citizen to travel to the U.S. is with a U.S. passport (with narrow exceptions). 2. The child is a U.S. citizen if the father acknowledges paternity. 3. If the child travels to the U.S. on a foreign passport, then either (a) there's a violation of law or (b) the U.S. father didn't acknowledge paternity or (c) both.

See the problem now in your "advice"?


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## Bellthorpe (Jun 23, 2013)

Not at all. The child is not yet a US citizen, although the way is clear to become one.

From the original post: "My daughter has a UK passport (well actually still waiting for it)". This will be needed for travel. If the OP has responsibility for the child, and there are no court orders against her, she can legally leave the UK with the child. And there's nothing to suggest that the father in this case would not give his blessing.

To address your numbered points:

1) You are correct, but it's not relevant, as this child is not a US citizen.

2) It needs more than the father acknowledging paternity. It needs an application, a process, which hasn't happened. So the child is not a US citizen.

3) If the child travels to the US on a British passport, then - well heck, the child is British, so that's fine.

How about we read a bit further in the legislation, shall we?

----------------------
(b) Procedures for claiming U.S. citizenship rights.
(1) A father desiring rights of U.S. citizenship for a foreign-born child must legally acknowledge the child as his own and prepare a case file. Each case is decided on its own merits. The Department of State, if the child is in a foreign nation, or the Immigration and Naturalization Service (INS), if the child is in the United States, will make the decision. Documents that may be important in supporting a citizenship determination are listed below:
----------------------

Again, that *hasn't happened*. So the child is *not a US Citizen*.

What is the aversion here to actually referring to the law, instead of 'what we all think we know'?


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## BBCWatcher (Dec 28, 2012)

What's the aversion to asking the U.S. State Department or referring to their Web site?

Let me try again. I don't know how the U.S. State Department adjudicates these cases, but travel to the U.S. on a U.K. passport _might_ run counter to a U.S. father's subsequent claim of paternity. I've looked at the documents the State Department produces, recently, and that's how I read them. Maybe that's wrong, maybe that's an acceptable risk, etc. but I would not recommend any process except the straight through, no nonsense, by-the-book process. And that's for the U.S. father to acknowledge paternity, get his child a U.S. passport, then have that child travel to the U.S.

I'm just going to disagree with you on this one. I simply don't think it's good advice to skip the child's paternity acknowledgement/U.S. passport before travel to the U.S.

I leave it to your imagination why the State Department might view one pattern of behavior differently than the other, but it doesn't require much imagination.


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## Bellthorpe (Jun 23, 2013)

The US State Department is bound by US law. I agree with you that a straight through, no nonsense, by-the-book process is the best. And given that the child is, like its mother, a UK citizen (or about to be one), the logical and appropriate behaviour is to present two UK passports. Are you seriously suggesting that if the OP were to do that, apart from "what is the purpose of your visit" and "where will you be staying", the next question would be "who is the father of your child, where is he and what is his nationality"?

You seem to think there is a requirement to make an early application for US citizenship for the child. There isn't.


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## BBCWatcher (Dec 28, 2012)

No, I'm suggesting that the pattern of behavior you just described is (or may be) inconsistent with a U.S. citizen father proudly, truthfully, and promptly acknowledging paternity of his child. It looks instead exactly like what might happen if a foreign mother were trying to dupe a gullible American non-father.

Sorry I had to spell that out, but you kept banging on this. Well, there you go.

Now, there's not necessarily any _problem_ with that if the father is prepared to pay for a DNA test (for example), a more likely "recommendation" when trying to obtain U.S. citizenship for his child after the "child" and his/her mother land in the U.S. after entering with foreign passports. But maybe the child really isn't, in fact, his biological child, and maybe he'd really rather prefer he (and the U.S. government) not know that inconvenient fact revealed by the DNA test he wouldn't have had to take if he had just followed the State Department's advice in the first place.

Am I clear enough yet? 

Look, I do not recommend messing with this stuff _at all_. The risks are too high. If you want your child's U.S. citizenship established and documented, I recommend doing it by the book, via ordinary/regular procedures, as the State Department recommends.


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## Bellthorpe (Jun 23, 2013)

BBCWatcher said:


> If you want your child's U.S. citizenship established and documented, I recommend doing it by the book, via ordinary/regular procedures, as the State Department recommends.


So do I. Which has little to do with the OP's question, and the incorrect accusations (by another) that I was suggesting illegal activity.


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## twostep (Apr 3, 2008)

Would so eine mind to give reference to a case where marriage was legally enforced for a child's US citizenship? Just for general entertainment.

OP asked a simple question, did not go into details, so the answer given have to be based on that. In a relationship the father is on the birth certificate so the child is acknowledged and US citizen. Let's home mom files birth abroad to save on money and time in the future.


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## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

Agree wholeheartedly with twostep. Let's not make problems based on speculation.

IF the matter of the nationality of either the baby or the father comes up, chances are that the OP would be given a "stern lecture" on entry to the US and may get tied up (not literally, just figuratively) for a while in Immigration. It might be a real good idea if the father were to be meeting the family at the airport - or at least handy by phone - on arrival. "Just in case."

Your best option is to answer all questions put to you at Immigration simply and truthfully, but don't offer any information that isn't specifically asked for.
Cheers,
Bev


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## Bellthorpe (Jun 23, 2013)

twostep said:


> In a relationship the father is on the birth certificate so the child is acknowledged and US citizen


You're not following the programme, are you? The father's name on the birth certificate does *not*, in and of itself, confer US citizenship on the child. Please read the legislation that I quoted.


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## Meritorious-MasoMenos (Apr 17, 2014)

BBCWatcher said:


> No, she is. From birth. She isn't a _documented_ citizen yet.
> 
> Please re-read what I wrote. It is correct. The U.S. State Department will tell you the same. You cannot legally skip documenting a child's U.S. citizenship and bring that child to the U.S. on a foreign passport. It's just simply illegal. I'm sure it happens, but it's against U.S. law.


As one who did extensive research on this for my own children, I'd say that your "No, she is. From birth. She isn't a documented citizen yet." is definitely the law.


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## Meritorious-MasoMenos (Apr 17, 2014)

Meritorious-MasoMenos said:


> As one who did extensive research on this for my own children, I'd say that your "No, she is. From birth. She isn't a documented citizen yet." is definitely the law.


I should've added that the child in question is also a "natural born U.S. citizen" as defined by Congress and the U.S, Constitution (the Founding Fathers said in the Federalist Papers that they left the definition of a natural born citizen to be set by Congress, which has changed the rules over the years). Since the child is a "natural born" citizen, he or she was at birth, as you said, just not yet documented yet.


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## Bellthorpe (Jun 23, 2013)

Meritorious-MasoMenos said:


> As one who did extensive research on this for my own children, I'd say that your "No, she is. From birth. She isn't a documented citizen yet." is definitely the law.


I quoted the relevant law earlier in the thread. Now if you'd care to quote some different relevant law, I'd be obliged ...


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## Meritorious-MasoMenos (Apr 17, 2014)

Bellthorpe said:


> I quoted the relevant law earlier in the thread. Now if you'd care to quote some different relevant law, I'd be obliged ...


If you google NY Times, WaPos or other national newspaper for "natural born citizen," you'll find thousands of articles on how the law has changed, but all aim to define those who had U.S. citizenship at birth, not conveyed by regulations. What you are quoting may be steps that parents have to take to get that birth recorded as a natural born citizen birth, but is most definitely not a process to grant it. Rather, Congress has defined those who have it "naturally" at birth. You see the difference?

A lawyer wrote a letter published in the NYTimes back in 1987 that should help people understand this difference between the process of documenting natural born citizenship, and the process for seeking naturalization, much different:

"Mr. Safire commits a common error when discussing the Constitution's requirement that the President be ''a natural born citizen.'' Mr. Safire believes this to mean native born, that is, born within the United States. A far more logical and reasonable meaning, however, is one who became a citizen naturally, through the circumstances of birth, and not through being naturalized, the lengthy and onerous process by which aliens become United States citizens."

That is at:No Simple Matter to Be a Natural Born Citizen - NYTimes.com

You see the difference?

Here is a 2008 article on John McCain's eligibility for the White House, the year in which he ran and lost.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/11/u...Search&mabReward=relbias:w,{"2":"RI:18"}&_r=0

Again, the article discusses not how he may gain eligibility to become a natural born citizen. That is already conferred by Congress, by virtue of his birth to parents or a parent as defined by Congress. You don't have to do anything to get this right of birth, just demonstrate that you met the qualifications set by Congress.

I can't find right now but either the NY Times or WaPost published a very detailed story in 2012 about all the changes that Congress has imposed since 1900 on what is a natural born citizen, but again, the laws do not define how a person gets this, it is conferred naturally to whatever tests that Congress sets. U.S. sets much different standards to become a naturalized citizen. You have to meet each step, after birth. But the child of the OP has already met his/her step by the very act of her birth that meets Congress's definition of a natural born citizen.


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## BBCWatcher (Dec 28, 2012)

OK, so, to recap:

1. If the parents were married when the child was born (and at least one parent is a U.S. citizen or U.S. national and met the U.S. residency requirements), it would be clearly illegal to bring that child to the U.S. on anything other than a U.S. passport or U.S. ETD. We don't recommend committing an illegal act, at least not without having a damn good reason.

2. If the parents were not married when the child was born, then the child is still eligible for (natural born) U.S. citizenship derived from his U.S. citizen-father who met the U.S. residence qualifications, who acknowledges paternity, and who follows the process for documenting that child's U.S. citizenship. It is _highly recommended_ that those steps be completed, and a U.S. passport obtained, expeditiously and _before_ taking the child on any international trip (including especially a trip to the U.S.) for the reasons perhaps too clearly described upthread and for other reasons, such as an untimely death of the father.

Each U.S. citizenship case is handled on a case-by-case basis appropriate to the facts and circumstances. Modify the facts and circumstances and your case is likely to be handled differently ("recommended" DNA testing as a notable example) and in ways likely not in the child's interest.


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