# Expats in New Zealand very happy with their new life, survey shows



## Editor

Expats in New Zealand are enjoying their new life and integrating well into the community, according to new research drawn from the Immigration Settlement Monitoring Programme. Overall the survey found that ,ore than 80% of recent migrants are satisfied or very satisfied with life in New Zealand, with those who were ‘very satisfied’ increasing by [...]

Click to read the full news article: Expats in New Zealand very happy with their new life, survey shows...
Please come back to discuss the story here in this thread.


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## carosapien

In the last study 93% were satisfied with their lives in NZ, why has it dropped?

These surveys have one basic flaw - they only follow up on the people who remain in New Zealand and not those who've left.


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## toadsurfer

Well the ones who have gone home aren't expats anymore are they.


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## topcat83

Well here's one very happy expat. 
And must tell you about today's purchase - an alpaca poo vacuum cleaner. 
What an exciting life we lead


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## kiwiemma

topcat83 said:


> an alpaca poo vacuum cleaner.


:-0

Thats a thing??


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## topcat83

kiwiemma said:


> :-0
> 
> Thats a thing??






Enjoy!


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## carosapien

toadsurfer said:


> Well the ones who have gone home aren't expats anymore are they.


Then it stands to reason that the majority of those who are left are going to be satisfied doesn't it?  Perhaps these surveys should be looking at retention rates too.

I wonder why it's only 80% though, perhaps the myth of 93% satisfaction was a myth after all?


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## toadsurfer

carosapien said:


> Then it stands to reason that the majority of those who are left are going to be satisfied doesn't it?


Not necessarily as a survey done at any one time will still catch people who are still in NZ but planning to return etc. Including those already gone will distort the result as much as including people yet to leave the uk but dreaming of going to nz. 

I do think these surveys are a bit arbitrary though and hardly a very exact science which is maybe why the figures vary so much.


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## carosapien

Out of the 6,251 people sampled the majority (51%) had been in New Zealand for between 1-5 years, after that it drops off sharply. 

Only 12% had been in New Zealand for more than 5 years. 

Page 2 http://www.dol.govt.nz/research/migration/ismp/docs/migrants-survey-indicators.pdf

5 years is as long as it takes to gain citizenship. Is the drop off because people get their citizenship and then leave for Australia?


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## xabiaxica

carosapien said:


> Out of the 6,251 people sampled the majority (51%) had been in New Zealand for between 1-5 years, after that it drops off sharply.
> 
> Only 12% had been in New Zealand for more than 5 years.
> 
> Page 2 http://www.dol.govt.nz/research/migration/ismp/docs/migrants-survey-indicators.pdf
> 
> 5 years is as long as it takes to gain citizenship. Is the drop off because people get their citizenship and then leave for Australia?


but once they get citizenship they aren't 'expats' are they?


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## carosapien

It's not a survey of expats, it is a survey of migrants. 

I'm sure the Labour and Immigration Research Centre didn't exclude people from a study to understand migrant settlement and labour market outcomes just because they are no longer "expats".

When I read the report it seems that the 80% satisfaction rate is only among recent migrants but I couldn't see a definition of "recent migrants".

Perhaps it would have been more useful to have worked out the satisfaction rate of *all *8,000+ migrants in the sample group, not just the recent arrivals. Or were all 8,000+ considered to be recent migrants? it's not clear.


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## xabiaxica

carosapien said:


> It's not a survey of expats, it is a survey of migrants.
> 
> I'm sure the Labour and Immigration Research Centre didn't exclude people from a study to understand migrant settlement and labour market outcomes just because they are no longer "expats".
> 
> When I read the report it seems that the 80% satisfaction rate is only among recent migrants but I couldn't see a definition of "recent migrants".
> 
> Perhaps it would have been more useful to have worked out the satisfaction rate of *all *8,000+ migrants in the sample group, not just the recent arrivals.



that's just semantics

my brother is a migrant to Australia - but he's an Australian citizen & unless you specifically asked him where he was born or at what age he arrived in Australia then he would answer any survey that he is 'Australian' - as far as he is concerned he isn't a migrant any more

since we don't know precisely what questions were asked, your scenario of them all leaving for Aus after 5 years is no more nor less likely than mine, of them now being _*citizens*_ & not considering themselves to be anything other than that, when asked

also - over 5 years is hardly 'recent' is it?


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## toadsurfer

The survey only considered recent migrants meaning people who had had a pr issued within 12 mths before the survey or a work visa within 6 mths which is why it had so few long term people included. It was a survey of new migrants' impression of nz and doesn't appear to be intended to be a long term look at migrants. 
I really don't think the Australia thing is much of an issue or really means very much. It's a nearby bigger economy, it will always attract a few migrants away in a similar way as the uk attracted so many Aussies when it was enjoying boomtime. I still think the overwhelming reason migrants go home will be missing family and friends and no country can make up for that.


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## topcat83

toadsurfer said:


> ....I still think the overwhelming reason migrants go home will be missing family and friends and no country can make up for that.


I agree with that. Which is why it's so important for people to try and find a social network as soon as they arrive. We were lucky as we had an uncle and cousins here, but many don't.

I joined a book club on our peninsula that was mainly new immigrant mums with school-aged children. They formed their own help-group in effect, with people you could call on for advice and in an emergency, older (over 14 yrs) children baby-sitting other people's younger ones, and just generally a friendly face. I think it says a lot that out of our original group of 20, five years on not one has gone back to their home country for good. A couple have made the move to Oz because of their husband's job, but still keep in contact too.

And over five years on we still meet up once a month at 'the wine club with a book problem' (that's what the husbands call it!)


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## inhamilton

I remember reading something in the paper about Brit Expats in NZ and the number that stay on that appears to contradict the theory that many leave for Oz once they gain citizenship. I looked it up on google and found this :

_[deleted as the posts are from another forum]_


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## carosapien

inhamilton said:


> I remember reading something in the paper about Brit Expats in NZ and the number that stay on that appears to contradict the theory that many leave for Oz once they gain citizenship. I looked it up on google and found this :
> 
> _[deleted as the posts are from another forum]_


Clever way to direct people towards a rival forum inhamilton. I was given an infraction for doing that.

Isn't it still against forum rules?


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## inhamilton

carosapien said:


> Clever way to direct people towards a rival forum inhamilton. I was given an infraction for doing that.
> 
> Isn't it still against forum rules?


Good grief. I had no intention of directing anyone anywhere. It was a simple cut and paste from a google search without any mention of a website. Mods are welcome to delete it if it was a breach of rules. I sure wouldn't have posted it if I thought anyone would be upset by it, or if I thought it had breached a rule. You do sound as though you have a bee in your bonnet. You should get an immigration reporter or someone to look into your concern about these surveys. There's nothing they like better than exposing this kind of stuff if it is incorrect.
Now I'm going to hang the washing out and sit out on the back deck and read the paper.


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## carosapien

inhamilton said:


> Good grief. I had no intention of directing anyone anywhere. It was a simple cut and paste from a google search without any mention of a website. Mods are welcome to delete it if it was a breach of rules. I sure wouldn't have posted it if I thought anyone would be upset by it, or if I thought it had breached a rule. You do sound as though you have a bee in your bonnet. You should get an immigration reporter or someone to look into your concern about these surveys. There's nothing they like better than exposing this kind of stuff if it is incorrect.
> Now I'm going to hang the washing out and sit out on the back deck and read the paper.


I'm sure you didn't and I didn't have any intention of breaking the rules either but* rules are rules* and they are there for good reason. 

My google search suggestion (it wasn't even a direct cut and paste from another forum like yours was) was replaced with a link to an official government web page about pensions. 

http://www.expatforum.com/expats/ne...-paying-tax-overseas-income-2.html#post869350 

I'm not sure there's any exposing to be done, that's a bit extreme. Just trying to make sense of some of the reports that are published and look at the sense of them.


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## topcat83

Actually, carosapien, the huge difference is that you _intended_ to direct people to another forum where inhamilton did it by accident. 

So - you're right - we don't allow people to direct others to other forums (and I will change the posts now you have so rightly pointed out that they do) but I will not be infracting inhamilton for his mistake.

I'd also like to point out that it's up to the moderators to decide whether a rule has been broken intentionally and therefore deserves an infraction, or accidentally in which case a warning is more suitable.


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## inhamilton

topcat83 said:


> So - you're right - we don't allow people to direct others to other forums (and I will change the posts now you have so rightly pointed out that they do) but I will not be infracting inhamilton for his mistake.


Great stuff. Thanks TC. :tape: :tea:


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## carosapien

Thank you Topcat. It's good to see the rules are being applied fairly and we have a level playing field here. 

It can be hard to discern degrees of subtlety, or genuine intent, when all you see are words on a page.

And for the record, I didn't intend to direct people either. I would have given people the name of the site if I'd wanted to do that.


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## bdl123

This is all getting a little pedantic now....please play nicely children 

Sent from my iPhone using ExpatForum


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## carosapien

Agreed :focus:


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## topcat83

Lol! Hopefully you'll all see how difficult it is to be a moderator.

It is a bit like a childrens playground sometimes - and you have to judge to your best ability how to handle the mischievous tykes best.


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## anski

topcat83 said:


> Paddock Vacuum - YouTube
> Enjoy!


OMG I thought you were pulling our leg until I watched the clip. Guess you will grow amazing veggies :clap2:


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## topcat83

anski said:


> OMG I thought you were pulling our leg until I watched the clip. Guess you will grow amazing veggies :clap2:


We tried it out yesterday - amazingly easy to clear away all those little piles. And yes - we will be growing our own capsicum/bell peppers to help that fresh vegetable grocery bill


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## anski

topcat83 said:


> We tried it out yesterday - amazingly easy to clear away all those little piles. And yes - we will be growing our own capsicum/bell peppers to help that fresh vegetable grocery bill



Lucky you & they will taste so MUCH better.

When we lived in Spain to help the poor garbage collector (who drove a tractor down our narrow streets in the village) I used to simply dig a hole in the garden & bury all our vegetable & fruit scraps. It was amazing what grew self seeded from these piles, we discovered wonderful pumpkins and tomatoes like I have never tasted since. Just to go out each day & gather a variety to make a meal from, the flavours still linger in my mind. Cannot wait to move to Hawkes Bay & start growing our own.


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