# alternative to copper gas pipe stolen



## jjd2012 (Apr 30, 2012)

Does anyone have a suggestion for replacing stolen copper pipe and a regulator from our roof in Tijuana that connected to a 300 liter LP tank and from the tank to service pipes to the interior of our home? I was hoping maybe something plastic, or trac pipe. Or doing the copper again, but securing it better. The roof to our condo is accessible for 10 units. The only other solution I can think of is to change to black steel pipe or more securely bolting down the copper tubing so it can't be taken apart too easily. Help! Cold showers and no stove is getting old fast! I've also considered keeping a ferocious dog up there, or gating in the perimeter of our alotted roof space, electrical wire fence....anything that'll help secure the piping!


----------



## conorkilleen (Apr 28, 2010)

there are many alternatives to copper, but thats up to you. PVC and others that you mentioned. Can you encase the pipes in some sort of structure (small shed-like thing).


----------



## johnmex (Nov 30, 2010)

LPG is pretty low pressure. I would think PVC to be fine. Leave your inside pipes copper though. Can't be too safe with LPG, unlike natural gas, it is heavier than air and will accumulate indoors.

For the regulator, mount it inside a box, bolted to the wall. Or even better, Concrete with wire mesh.


----------



## Ken Wood (Oct 22, 2011)

I suggest you get an opinion from someone who understands the limitations of the different kinds of plastic pipe. I do know that high density polyethylene, HDP, is recommended over PVC for usage in gas service, though I'm not aware of all the reasons. It's too easy to do a job like this right (and too easy to do it wrong) and a gas leak could be the result of a poor decision.


----------



## jasavak (Nov 22, 2011)

The same thing happened to my wife's family house . They replaced it with galvanized steel pipe . Don't try copper again , because they will steal it no matter how hard you try to secure it .


----------



## jjd2012 (Apr 30, 2012)

*More info*

ok, all this sounds like how've I've been thinking about resolving it. At this point, I'm thinking about using galvanized pipe. I'm assuming the metal content isn't of much value to steal, or is it just too difficult to remove? I can provide a link to a series of photos if anybody wants them. I'm not allowed to post this yet.

The copper pipe is still going into the house from the roof and the replacement pipe needs to adapt to these joins. I'll have to figure out a way to secure the new regulator to the tank's shut off valve. I'm not sure if this is LPG or propane, natural gas. I company called Zine I believe delivers the gas on a big truck and hoses it into my tank from there.

My main concern is safety. I guess the copper pipe, and I suppose galvanized or black steel pipe is extremely hazardous in a lightning storm, huh! Perhaps I'll consider encasing it all in larger plastic pipe. Not sure how to handle the regulator. This can be off a ways from the tank I suppose and I'll construct some sort of wire-mesh, cement encased space for this hot little item. Previously I've also had my water meter stolen and it's behind a locked access gate now.


----------



## makaloco (Mar 26, 2009)

Ken Wood said:


> I suggest you get an opinion from someone who understands the limitations of the different kinds of plastic pipe. I do know that high density polyethylene, HDP, is recommended over PVC for usage in gas service, though I'm not aware of all the reasons. It's too easy to do a job like this right (and too easy to do it wrong) and a gas leak could be the result of a poor decision.


As I understand it, liquid propane requires a certain kind of pipe. A few years ago, I had to have a section added to my installation and had some leftover copper plumbing pipe in perfectly good condition. The plumber said he couldn't use it because the gas line had to be a different … thickness? diameter? composition? I don't recall the reason, but he came back with a length of pipe that looked almost identical to the plumbing pipe but apparently wasn't. Best to check on that.


----------



## sparks (Jun 17, 2007)

All my copper is tucked in the corner between the roof and sidewall ... then covered with cement


----------



## FHBOY (Jun 15, 2010)

*Professionals?*

I don't know about youse guyz but when it comes to things like explosives I would rather call a professional than rely on us here, unless any of us are plumbing/heating specialists. 

There must be more than one plumbing/heating contractor in Mexico and I would trust the proposals from a few of them on the composition of pipe.

Handling gas is way too dangerous to be left to amateurs, mistakes can cost not only your life and home, but your neighbor's life and home also. In this case pay the money...shave the risk.


----------



## jjd2012 (Apr 30, 2012)

*Professional all the way*

I agree with you FHBOY. The original install was professionally done. So will the second version. I'm beginning to think this whole deal with the theft of the existing copper has been a stroke of luck as now I can truly eradicate any safety concerns as well as having any potential thieves scratching their heads. I am curious about Sparks' use of copper tucked into the corner covered with cement. I have the same rooftop build he mentions and except for the connection to the roof's tank, the service point in the middle of the roof and at the rear over the side wall, this could work. Would the pipe need to be encased in plastic first? What about earthquakes that could tip the tank and break the pipe encasement causing an explosion? My goal is to get ideas here, and present them to a professional installer in Mexico. However the last professional installation got stolen, hence the need to seek a strategic future implementation of this piping. Has anyone heard of track pipe that is covered with a plastic covering? I'm considering using this also but I'm not sure how it will fly with the bomberos in Mexico. Can anyone inform me what kind of gas I'm getting delivered to my tank in Tijuana?


----------



## jasavak (Nov 22, 2011)

FHBOY said:


> I don't know about youse guyz but when it comes to things like explosives I would rather call a professional than rely on us here, unless any of us are plumbing/heating specialists.
> 
> There must be more than one plumbing/heating contractor in Mexico and I would trust the proposals from a few of them on the composition of pipe.
> 
> Handling gas is way too dangerous to be left to amateurs, mistakes can cost not only your life and home, but your neighbor's life and home also. In this case pay the money...shave the risk.


I would call the gas company . They should know what works and what to avoid .


----------



## conorkilleen (Apr 28, 2010)

FHBOY said:


> I don't know about youse guyz but when it comes to things like explosives I would rather call a professional than rely on us here, unless any of us are plumbing/heating specialists.
> 
> There must be more than one plumbing/heating contractor in Mexico and I would trust the proposals from a few of them on the composition of pipe.
> 
> Handling gas is way too dangerous to be left to amateurs, mistakes can cost not only your life and home, but your neighbor's life and home also. In this case pay the money...shave the risk.


I would agree with that. Even the company that delivers the gas may have the name and contact of a company that will do the work for you. I would get at least 3 quotes however.


----------



## tommygn (Dec 2, 2011)

There is PVC piping specific for gas or LP installations. I´ve used it on some developments. It´s just as reliable as copper, but it has to be the specific type, with the connectors, couples etc specific for that line of products. I cant recall the name of the brand, but if you PM tomorrow I will remember to check, I have all that information in my office.


----------



## jjd2012 (Apr 30, 2012)

tommygn said:


> There is PVC piping specific for gas or LP installations. I´ve used it on some developments. It´s just as reliable as copper, but it has to be the specific type, with the connectors, couples etc specific for that line of products. I cant recall the name of the brand, but if you PM tomorrow I will remember to check, I have all that information in my office.


Please do give me as much information as you can. I'd really like to use plastic that will be acceptable to the fire department and a professional installer in Tijuana. This will need to coupled with existing remaining copper tubing which services the back patio's water heater and clothes dryer and a service point in the middle of the roof that connects to a stove. My neighbor there, also suggested plastic, but it had to be a certain type. Internet search “CPVC”, “PEX”, or “plastic gas pipe” for more information on these products, pipe, and fitting systems.

I'm a new member and am unable to PM you until I do five posts. So please message me if you can or put the info in a reply to this thread.


----------



## sparks (Jun 17, 2007)

Everything I read about any type of PVC is that it has to be outside the house and buried


----------



## geraldstephen (May 3, 2012)

jjd2012 said:


> Does anyone have a suggestion for replacing stolen copper pipe and a regulator from our roof in Tijuana that connected to a 300 liter LP tank and from the tank to service pipes to the interior of our home? I was hoping maybe something plastic, or trac pipe. Or doing the copper again, but securing it better. The roof to our condo is accessible for 10 units. The only other solution I can think of is to change to black steel pipe or more securely bolting down the copper tubing so it can't be taken apart too easily. Help! Cold showers and no stove is getting old fast! I've also considered keeping a ferocious dog up there, or gating in the perimeter of our alotted roof space, electrical wire fence....anything that'll help secure the piping!


** The preferred pipe for LP gas is typical Black Iron pipe (BI), NOT Galvanized! Black Iron pipe is typical hard piping and less expensive than galvanized, and will not rot, athough should be painted but NOT required. The galvanizing can corrode on the inside of the pipe after continued exposure to the LP gas and clog the regulator and or other orifices in your appliances. 

You'll need pipe, fittings, brackets, threaded rod, nuts (2 per hanger), hack-saw, (2) pipe-wrenches, screws for brackets, screws to fasten base plates and regulator to structure, pipe thread sealant, screw driver, spray paint for pipe, sopay water solution in spray bottle. You might also consider a silicone caulk/sealant beneath all base plates to seal from potential leaks, as well as where ever the pipe enters the house. 

The regulator should be mounted OUTSIDE the house and MUST be vented. Be sure to use a quality pipe thread sealant on all male end of all fittings. You'll need (2) pipe wrenches. Wrench #1 is used to hold pipe-A while wrench #2 is turning pipe-B (or the appropriate connection fitting). Once the install is complete, turn on the gas and check each connection by spraying with soapy water solution...bubbles will expose leaking connection, which can simply be tightened using the pipe wrenches. The pipe should be supported with proper pipe hangers. If using threaded-rod type hangers, remember to use nuts on each end of the rod to lock it into position on the hanger (to keep it from wobbling). These are the best/most secure type of hanger and can be tightened very securely. They consist of (2) 1/2 round brackets which clamp around the pipe and fasten to each other w/screws. This bracket is then attached to a base plate using a section of threaded-rod. The base plate is fastened to the structure with two screws. The threaded rod is purchased in 6' sections and then cut to your preferred length with a hack saw or sawzall. Again, don't forget the nuts on each end of the threaded rod. One tightened against the bracket, one against the base plate, keeping the rod from turning/wobbling. You can buy different length sections of pipe, and or have them cut and threaded to length to fit your application. You can also buy a section of flexible gas line in case you have difficulty getting the exact length to bring the copper and BI pipe together. This section should be as short as possible.

When you get to the point where the BI and Copper pipes must connect, there are fittings to properly connect them leak-free. 

I hope this helps....


----------



## stilltraveling (May 7, 2012)

sparks said:


> All my copper is tucked in the corner between the roof and sidewall ... then covered with cement


That's the trick. Any copper tubing must be cemented over unless you want it to walk away.


----------



## jjd2012 (Apr 30, 2012)

Should copper be housed in foam or plastic pipe before the cement goes over it? In the house cement walls, it's in a metal channel.


----------



## sparks (Jun 17, 2007)

jjd2012 said:


> Should copper be housed in foam or plastic pipe before the cement goes over it? In the house cement walls, it's in a metal channel.


Mine wasn't and I don't think it's necessary. We used a piece of 3" plastic pipe to arc the cement into the corner so it's smooth. Then Impermeabilizante to seal it


----------



## jjd2012 (Apr 30, 2012)

Ok, I just returned to Tijuana yesterday. With the aid of my wife, we drove down the hill from our house and located a great plumber to do the job. Upon obtaining a regulator and piping for this work, we were introduced to Flowguard Gas CVPC/AL/CVPC pipe (FlowGuard® Gas). Our tank is LPG, which is low pressure. We also noticed that others were also using plastic pipe in our area, but this pipe has an aluminum inner core sandwiched in between two layers of CPVC. It can easily be attached to our existing copper with adapters. The whole job cost around $130.


----------



## tommygn (Dec 2, 2011)

"Duralon" "linea dorada" is the maker of the pvc for gas. Absolutely proven. We used it in at least 300 homes in Chihuahua, without a single warranty claim. Just make sure everything is installed up to spec, that means using the same lines couples, bends and connections. and cement.


----------



## tommygn (Dec 2, 2011)

I also forgot about FlowGuard they also make that tubing, they make some of the best pvc out there.


----------



## Ken Wood (Oct 22, 2011)

geraldstephen said:


> ** The preferred pipe for LP gas is typical Black Iron pipe (BI), NOT Galvanized! Black Iron pipe is typical hard piping and less expensive than galvanized, and will not rot, athough should be painted but NOT required. The galvanizing can corrode on the inside of the pipe after continued exposure to the LP gas and clog the regulator and or other orifices in your appliances.
> 
> You'll need pipe, fittings, brackets, threaded rod, nuts (2 per hanger), hack-saw, (2) pipe-wrenches, screws for brackets, screws to fasten base plates and regulator to structure, pipe thread sealant, screw driver, spray paint for pipe, sopay water solution in spray bottle. You might also consider a silicone caulk/sealant beneath all base plates to seal from potential leaks, as well as where ever the pipe enters the house.
> 
> ...



Since you did not recognize any other author, I will credit you for this fine piece of penmanship. One of my simple pleasures is watching a craftsman, regardless of his discipline, who clearly understands his work, and who takes pride in a project. The same can be said about someone who takes the time to detail such a project for the benefit of a stranger. I see that you are apparently new to this forum, so I'll also add a welcome and encourage you to stick around and be a "frequenter"


----------



## jjd2012 (Apr 30, 2012)

Ken Wood said:


> Since you did not recognize any other author, I will credit you for this fine piece of penmanship. One of my simple pleasures is watching a craftsman, regardless of his discipline, who clearly understands his work, and who takes pride in a project. The same can be said about someone who takes the time to detail such a project for the benefit of a stranger. I see that you are apparently new to this forum, so I'll also add a welcome and encourage you to stick around and be a "frequenter"


Thanks Ken for taking the time to recognize* geraldstephen*'s detailed reply to my problem. I realize now I just skipped over his effort. I should have thanked him much earlier for such fine instruction. 

So, Geraldstephen, thank you so much for your fine effort. I'm sure it'll be of help to others as it was in the chain of replies with this post.


----------



## dongringo (Dec 13, 2010)

Thanks, I have and am having similar problems with the theft of copper. This thread has helped.
Now I have to find a local yokel who knows what I mean when I request plastic pipe with an aluminum inner core sandwiched in between two layers of CPVC.


----------



## jjd2012 (Apr 30, 2012)

dongringo said:


> Thanks, I have and am having similar problems with the theft of copper. This thread has helped.
> Now I have to find a local yokel who knows what I mean when I request plastic pipe with an aluminum inner core sandwiched in between two layers of CPVC.


The plumber we found, one of many who just hang around our neighborhood, brought us to his gas piping supplier. The supplier then suggested the FlowGuard Gas brand of piping to us and supplied us with all the necessary parts upon the request of the plumber. By the way, the tubing is stamped with 'cpvc/al/cpvc', not the way I had it spelled on #20 permalink.


----------

