# Spain - the good, the bad and the grumpy!



## Donna773 (Dec 12, 2010)

Hi, I'm Donna and I am a former Fleet Street writer and columnist now living in the Costa Blanca. I think Expat Forum members will find some of my articles and complaints particularly interesting. You can hopefully find them by googling SNIP.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Hi Donna, and welcome to the best expat forum in Spain. I'm sure you'll find plenty of other grumpy old grannies here (of all ages and both genders) to share your views.

However I'm not wholly convinced that what the world needs right now is more "professional moaners". Don't we need someone to remind us instead about all the good things in life?


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## Donna773 (Dec 12, 2010)

Of course you're right, Alcalaina (sorry, don't have your real name) but in the eyes of cynical hacks like myself, good news is no news! Most of my friends are ageing grumpies like me...and it's much healthier and less painful tearing bureaucracy apart than moaning about our ever-increasing medical problems. I do also write positive articles, by the way!


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

I'm all for looking at the positives in the world, especially now when everyones feeling the effects of the recession. Sadly, and nowt personal, but the media dont help. They have that "good news is no news" mentality you mention. My ex was/is a journalist for the Telegraph and he was the same - only interested in the bad things in life!! 

So anyway, welcome to the forum Donna, nice to meet you!

Jo xxxx


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

Donna773 said:


> Of course you're right, Alcalaina (sorry, don't have your real name) but in the eyes of cynical hacks like myself, good news is no news! Most of my friends are ageing grumpies like me...and it's much healthier and less painful tearing bureaucracy apart than moaning about our ever-increasing medical problems. I do also write positive articles, by the way!


Whenever the media lot on forums its generally to find some bad news for them to report, something that makes expats look sad and sorry and rejoices in the fact that we're having a bad time

Frankly I'm fed up of it ... when someone comes on and asks for some good stories I'll be bloody amazed.

I'm not having a bad time. I'm perfectly happy ... report that!


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## Donna773 (Dec 12, 2010)

Hi Jo,

Good news, bad news or whatever, I'm already getting positive vibes about this site. Whatever I've got to say, I've always injected plenty of humour into my rantings. It's smiles better than merely piling on the misery, don't you think? Having said that, I never stop moaning about things like the UK's painfully soft attitude towards crime, an education system which is vastly inferior and less disciplined than in my youth - and the growing ''scum society'' of yobs I am so glad I don't have to face every day. Help, I feel some new grumps coming on!


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## Donna773 (Dec 12, 2010)

I'm having a great time too, Stravinsky - I love living in Spain. But I don't see anything wrong in coinstructively criticising things I feel are wrong. For instance, I had a nightmare dealing with Telefonica and ended up sacking them (not that they were bothered). I also had my electricity cut off without warning. Is there anything wrong in writing articles about my negative experiences to warn others?


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## Guest (Dec 12, 2010)

Donna / nothing wrong criticising and especially pointing out differencies between the UK or other countries to readers of the forums. I think many people come here to get info on particular matters and life in general as an expat in Spain. It is useful to read about these things. I guess it is one of the reasons this site exists.

Personally I am fed up with some other sites and forums where people just go on about how wonderful everything is here in Spain. Imo it is not, feel free to call me grumpy. A lot of things do not work or work poorly, systems are full of manana and negligence, bureaucracy, corruption and crime is what you live with daily, it is often dirty and people are often rude, the small, "every-day" racism towards foreigners of all nationalities drives me crazy etc etc. BUT, of course there is the other, happy, side of the coin. I try my best to enjoy the latter, but I do get grumpy now n then....


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Donna773 said:


> I'm having a great time too, Stravinsky - I love living in Spain. But I don't see anything wrong in coinstructively criticising things I feel are wrong. For instance, I had a nightmare dealing with Telefonica and ended up sacking them (not that they were bothered). I also had my electricity cut off without warning. Is there anything wrong in writing articles about my negative experiences to warn others?


Do you write equally constructively and frequently about all the things that _didn´t_ go wrong? I suspect not, because nobody would be interested! So your readers get the impression that Spain is a land full of inefficient sevices and unhelpful bureaucrats, which is not only misleading, but reinforces the stereotype of the "mañana" culture.


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## 90199 (Mar 21, 2010)

I think that most of you are living in a different country to me.

Telefonica have been very efficient!!

We do not experience racism in any form whatsoever. We live in a harmonious society of many nationalities albeit few of us are English residents, three in total.

My neighbours are from Gran Canaria, Tenerife, and Venezuela. A young man who practises his English in our company, is half Greek half Venezuelan. The owners of the flower shop are from Argentina.

There is crime here, but very little. I am trying to think of something bad to say about the place, aah yes, it rained early this morning.

Life is good here, but please do feel free to carry on being grumpy, if that is what makes you happy

Hepa


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## thrax (Nov 13, 2008)

I don't know who you are Hepa but I like you; you talk a lot of sense and that's always welcome. I have been living in Spain for 3 months now and really enjoying the challenges etc. I have a few strong opinions about some things but mostly I just like to be laid back and happy. This forum nearly always offers people who ask excellent advice (I say nearly always because if I didn't somebody would crop up and say they got bad advice, although I don't know of a single occasion when that might have happened. There are some exceptionally knowledgable people on here and before we moved to Spain we searched this site often for info and all of it was good. Thats it; I've said enough. Jojo will ban me if I continue....


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## 90199 (Mar 21, 2010)

thrax said:


> I don't know who you are Hepa but I like you; you talk a lot of sense and that's always welcome. I have been living in Spain for 3 months now and really enjoying the challenges etc. I have a few strong opinions about some things but mostly I just like to be laid back and happy. This forum nearly always offers people who ask excellent advice (I say nearly always because if I didn't somebody would crop up and say they got bad advice, although I don't know of a single occasion when that might have happened. There are some exceptionally knowledgable people on here and before we moved to Spain we searched this site often for info and all of it was good. Thats it; I've said enough. Jojo will ban me if I continue....


I thank you for your compliment.

I am in fact an old git who lives on a remote island in the Atlantic and very happy to be here.

I try to insert a little humour now and again.

Yes this forum is a good one, there are many here with a wealth of knowledge and I also have benefited from it,

Hepa


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## Donna773 (Dec 12, 2010)

Actually I have just written a very complimentary piece for the next edition of Female Focus magazine about the wonderful service I received from both my insurers and repairers when I had the misfortune to be hit by a Smart car (don't laugh) being driven by a car-hire company employee near Alicante airport. It was entirely his fault but, like a lot of expats, I guess, I had always been worried how I would cope in an accident situation. In the event it was all taken out of my hands. So it's not all bad news after all!


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## thrax (Nov 13, 2008)

Excellent news; I too am a boring old git (fart as my wife would say) but very happy to be living in Spain. Been here 3 months and can't believe the weather atm. Back home where I once existed they are still snowed in. We were snowed in early this year and the end of last year and it ain't fun. I was wearing shorts and a t-shirt today and all last week. It's December and my head is spinning with disbelief


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## Guest (Dec 13, 2010)

Thrax / yes, the weather is great! A bit warmer than usual for the season, but it happens often. Very glad you enjoy Frigiliana, it is a great village.

Hepa / I agree to what you say about Telefonica and disagree with the numerous flame postings on various sites and forums about how bad they are. I am a customer since 10 years for fixed line and Internet. Whenever there is a problem they fix it the same day, even have an English speaking person to call later to check if all is ok, impressive! I got my fixed line one week after I applied. It was cut once because I did not have money in my account to pay the bills, one quick warning by mail, (if it reaches you , then cut and the number goes to someone else. That is how it works here in Spain. Ok, fault was mine, just did not know how fast they move. New number now since some years, I must say that Telefonica is one of the more reliable I have met here.

Maybe it is luck or how one behaves? A friend of mine applied for a fixed line years ago, started to complain etc, compairing things to how it works in Sweden. Well, he had to wait for 5 years to get a fixed line.... Telefonica said they ran out of free numbers for the area, my belief is that my friend simply put himself on the black list.


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

Donna773 said:


> I'm having a great time too, Stravinsky - I love living in Spain. But I don't see anything wrong in coinstructively criticising things I feel are wrong. For instance, I had a nightmare dealing with Telefonica and ended up sacking them (not that they were bothered). I also had my electricity cut off without warning. Is there anything wrong in writing articles about my negative experiences to warn others?


I _dont _have any problem about highlighting the cons of Spain. I _do_ have a problem with the amount of media that come on the forums asking for "your latest nightmare" or "your bad experiences in Spain" and then seeing the resulting article telling people how terrible Spain is for expats. Its not generally constructive criticism.

I'm not stupid enough to convince myself that all is wonderful in Spain. Its not, and neither is it in the UK. I _do_ realise that although a number of people have issues with Telefonica, it's not the norm. I wonder if you would have written an article on how well you had been treated by Telefonica had it been different .... I think not 

I'm not having a go at you personally. In years of seeing your colleagues coming on forums, the _only_ time I remember being asked for positive comments was a few years ago when I went on Oxford radio to explain what it was like to live here. I gave a _balanced_ view


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

Donna, I just read your electricty blog 

Is that right, you're having a go at the supplier because they cut your electricity off because you hadn't got the money in your account to pay them when the d/d was due, and you were in the UK so presumably couldnt be contacted?


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

We did have a spate of journalists coming on here a few years ago and yes there was also a spate of media coverage in the UK about how desperate things were for expats over here. But it was all nonsense and grossly exaggerated.

I personally think that the media in the UK has too much power and revels in bad news. There are several instances I can think of which were fuelled by the press and made infinitely worse. Another example is that "bad news" makes the headlines ie FUEL PRICES RISE, but when they drop down again, you may see it mentions in a cm column somewhere in the back!

Anyway, we'll not dwell on it. Its nice to have you here Donna, I'll bet you wish you hadnt mentioned that you were from fleet street now lol!!!!! And yes of course there are lots of things to moan about here in Spain, not least Telefonica, Endesa (electricity company here), the undying love for paperwork, more paperwork and photocopying...............

Jo xxxx


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## Sonrisa (Sep 2, 2010)

Isn't that the norm everywhere in the world? I mean to cut you off when payment is over due? 
I have to say that I am learning a lot from reading some of the comments, I was blisfully unaware of the postal service/telephone service/ electricity service etc being so incompetent. I never ever have had issues with these. I guess I have been lucky


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

thrax said:


> Excellent news; I too am a boring old git (fart as my wife would say) but very happy to be living in Spain. Been here 3 months and can't believe the weather atm. Back home where I once existed they are still snowed in. We were snowed in early this year and the end of last year and it ain't fun. I was wearing shorts and a t-shirt today and all last week. It's December and my head is spinning with disbelief


You two will have to start a blog called Happy Old Gits. I´m far too young (58) to qualify, of course!


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## littleredrooster (Aug 3, 2008)

Dizzie Izzie said:


> Isn't that the norm everywhere in the world? I mean to cut you off when payment is over due?
> I have to say that I am learning a lot from reading some of the comments, I was blisfully unaware of the postal service/telephone service/ electricity service etc being so incompetent. I never ever have had issues with these. I guess I have been lucky


I think the tendancy in the UK is only to cut ppl off when all else has been tried and failed, which can often be quite a long while after payments have ceased.
In Spain, the procedure unfortunately seems to be somewhat speedier.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

I like it here. There's positives and negatives about every country/town/village in the world. Spain is a great place to live if all the other factors are in place: money, job etc.
The only thing that spoils it is the small number of whingeing moaning British immigrants - sorry 'expats' - who were probably losers back home in the UK and who have exported their negative _Weltanschaung _ with them.
Them and the hopeless non-skilled non-Spanish-speaking jobseekers who seem to think Spain is an English colony.
Oh, and the 'ten bob millionaires'.
Loads of them in the Marbella area....


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Donna773 said:


> Hi Jo,
> 
> Good news, bad news or whatever, I'm already getting positive vibes about this site. Whatever I've got to say, I've always injected plenty of humour into my rantings. It's smiles better than merely piling on the misery, don't you think? Having said that, I never stop moaning about things like the UK's painfully soft attitude towards crime, an education system which is vastly inferior and less disciplined than in my youth - and the growing ''scum society'' of yobs I am so glad I don't have to face every day. Help, I feel some new grumps coming on!


Well, you obviously didn't write for The Guardian or the Indie, did you


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

mrypg9 said:


> I like it here. There's positives and negatives about every country/town/village in the world. Spain is a great place to live if all the other factors are in place: money, job etc.
> The only thing that spoils it is the small number of whingeing moaning British immigrants - sorry 'expats' - who were probably losers back home in the UK and who have exported their negative _Weltanschaung _ with them.
> Them and the hopeless non-skilled non-Spanish-speaking jobseekers who seem to think Spain is an English colony.
> Oh, and the 'ten bob millionaires'.
> Loads of them in the Marbella area....


What about the ex SAS officers ..... aren't you forgetting them?


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Stravinsky said:


> What about the ex SAS officers ..... aren't you forgetting them?


What ex-SAS officers

I'd like to know more.....such people could be of possible future use


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Sorry, posted duplicate...


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## gus-lopez (Jan 4, 2010)

Strav means the ones you come across that tell you they used to be in the SaS & fought in the1st, 2nd WW's korea, the falklands, 1st & 2 nd Gulf wars, etc,etc,etc.


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## thrax (Nov 13, 2008)

I have never been in the SAS but I did work with some. I've met guys here who claim to have been in the SAS - very funny. Just the one little question always floors them - where did you train?


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

littleredrooster said:


> I think the tendancy in the UK is only to cut ppl off when all else has been tried and failed, which can often be quite a long while after payments have ceased.
> In Spain, the procedure unfortunately seems to be somewhat speedier.


Depends where you are though. When our suppliers changed in July 2009, nobody paid anything for 8 months because the new company had to set up all the accounts and direct debits manually. We are now once more being billed every two months, but eight months in arrears!

A rare example of corporate inefficiency working in favour of the consumer.


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## Donna773 (Dec 12, 2010)

Sorry, no such luck. I slummed it with the Express, Mirror and Star. They also have people who can write, believe it or not. And the pay is a lot better!


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## Donna773 (Dec 12, 2010)

jojo said:


> We did have a spate of journalists coming on here a few years ago and yes there was also a spate of media coverage in the UK about how desperate things were for expats over here. But it was all nonsense and grossly exaggerated.
> 
> I personally think that the media in the UK has too much power and revels in bad news. There are several instances I can think of which were fuelled by the press and made infinitely worse. Another example is that "bad news" makes the headlines ie FUEL PRICES RISE, but when they drop down again, you may see it mentions in a cm column somewhere in the back!
> 
> ...


Now that you mention Telefonica, yes...I've just started a new thread on that one!


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Donna773 said:


> Sorry, no such luck. I slummed it with the Express, Mirror and Star. They also have people who can write, believe it or not. And the pay is a lot better!


Kelvin Mackenzie once said it was harder to write for The Sun than for The Grauniad and I believe him. He said any of his staff could work on The Guardian but none of their hacks could write for The Sun. I suspect he was right.

When I worked in education I had to write texts for students of ages from eight to eighteen. The older the student, the easier it was. People don't realise just how difficult it is to write convincingly outside of your normal frame of reference.

I read The Guardian from age fifteen when it cost 3d (tells you how long ago that was...) until a few years ago when I realised that I didn't qualify for readership any longer as I'm over fifty, don't work in the media, don't drink in the Met Bar or dine at The Ivy (or anywhere in Hoxton), don't wear scruffy clothes that cost an arm and a leg and have only vaguely left-of-centre political views.
So now I read The Independent or, if I want something intelligently written I can sometimes disagree with, The Telegraph.
Or have good discussions on this site with Jo, Gus, DunR. LRR , Alca and others..


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

gus-lopez said:


> Strav means the ones you come across that tell you they used to be in the SaS & fought in the1st, 2nd WW's korea, the falklands, 1st & 2 nd Gulf wars, etc,etc,etc.


No, never come across any of those....although OH's ex-husband used to say that when he was in the Army he was dropped by parachute into the Yemen disguised as an Arab.....
I guess I'm not interesting, young or glamorous enough for anyone to want to try to impress me.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Donna773 said:


> Now that you mention Telefonica, yes...I've just started a new thread on that one!


*At this moment in time* Telefonica/Movistar are on my Christmas card list.


We changed from them to one of those 'cheaper' ASDL providers when our bill shot up at the end of our promocion but changed back after a month because the ASDL service was dreadful.
We went back, chastened, to Telefonica who gave us a new promocion even better than the old one.
Seems it's a matter of luck what quality of service you get.

Now if you want to start a thread on Endesa, who are currently charging me for Marbella's Christmas lights, it seems.......that's a different matter.


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## Donna773 (Dec 12, 2010)

mrypg9 said:


> Kelvin Mackenzie once said it was harder to write for The Sun than for The Grauniad and I believe him. He said any of his staff could work on The Guardian but none of their hacks could write for The Sun. I suspect he was right.
> 
> When I worked in education I had to write texts for students of ages from eight to eighteen. The older the student, the easier it was. People don't realise just how difficult it is to write convincingly outside of your normal frame of reference.
> 
> ...


Who am I to argue with Kelvin? (About whom I could tell you some hilarious stories, incidentally). The general consensus is that the so-called quality press is writer-driven, while the tabloids (Sun, Mirror, Star) are driven by the sub-editors (the guys who edit the words and think up the headlines). Having said that, I can't argue with any thinking reader choosing the Telegraph. It sticks to the facts and avoids the frills - which must bore the hell out of its sub-editors!


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Donna773 said:


> Who am I to argue with Kelvin? (About whom I could tell you some hilarious stories, incidentally). The general consensus is that the so-called quality press is writer-driven, while the tabloids (Sun, Mirror, Star) are driven by the sub-editors (the guys who edit the words and think up the headlines). Having said that, I can't argue with any thinking reader choosing the Telegraph. It sticks to the facts and avoids the frills - which must bore the hell out of its sub-editors!


So you don't count the Express and the Mail as tabloids? Interesting.

I love arguing with Telegraph readers, not just about the facts they print, but about the facts they leave out. Some of the writers - Christopher Booker in particular - appear to be living on another planet.

And The Times these days is just like The Sun, for people who are too snobbish to be caught reading The Sun.

The only paper I buy these days is El Pais; I have various RSS newsfeeds to keep up with what's going on in the world, plus dear old Radio 4 of course. I couldn't start the day without John Humphrys et al.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Donna773 said:


> Having said that, I can't argue with any thinking reader choosing the Telegraph. *It sticks to the facts* and avoids the frills - which must bore the hell out of its sub-editors!


Well, it's the house journal of thoughtful Conservatives. A great read if you can detect the bias. I would say 'it does not print untruths' rather than 'it sticks to the facts'. 
As you haven't included The Mail in your resumee I conclude you are a person of principle.....
Although The Mail did hunt down the scumbags that murdered Stephen Lawrence....


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Alcalaina said:


> The only paper I buy these days is El Pais; I have various RSS newsfeeds to keep up with what's going on in the world, plus dear old Radio 4 of course. I couldn't start the day without John Humphrys et al.


 Yes, I couldn't start the day without coffee and Today. Did you hear Naughtie's Freudian slip about the Culture Secretary last week? I couldn't believe my ears - it was hilarious.
If you didn't, there's a clip on Youtube.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

mrypg9 said:


> Well, it's the house journal of thoughtful Conservatives. A great read if you can detect the bias. I would say 'it does not print untruths' rather than 'it sticks to the facts'.
> As you haven't included The Mail in your resumee I conclude you are a person of principle.....
> Although The Mail did hunt down the scumbags that murdered Stephen Lawrence....


You might enjoy this, it's one of my favourite blogs: Tabloid Watch


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

mrypg9 said:


> Yes, I couldn't start the day without coffee and Today. Did you hear Naughtie's Freudian slip about the Culture Secretary last week? I couldn't believe my ears - it was hilarious.
> If you didn't, there's a clip on Youtube.


I caught it later, on Facebook - priceless!


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Alcalaina said:


> You might enjoy this, it's one of my favourite blogs: Tabloid Watch


That's great, thanks
Really like that other one you recommended, Newsbiscuit.


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