# Urgent; Estate agent asking for deposit before signing or seeing contract!



## Muddy (Jan 14, 2010)

Apologies if this info is in the FAQ somewhere but I've done a search and can't find any matches.

I've arranged a viewing trip to look at what now only looks like a couple of rental properties on Tuesday next.

On the phone several days ago I asked the agent to send me a copy of the rental contract so I could forward to my Spanish lawyer.
He didn't seem to have any issues with that at the time but now I've booked hotel and flights, he now very late in the day emails me saying;
"After you choice the house and pay the deposit I'll give you receipt and I have to make the contract and send to you to, your lawyer check, this is the process."

I've not rented before so I'm worried of making serious mistakes with this guy.

I previously on a viewing trip in a different area got the agent to send me a copy of their contract, less any property details which they were ok with doing.

Personally I think it's crazy handing over money before seeing a contract, or is this normal for a rental contract in Spain to secure the property?
I know rentals are going very quick in some places.

I feel a bit backed into a corner at the moment, hope that feeling isn't justifiable.

Thank you for any help/advice on this.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Muddy said:


> Apologies if this info is in the FAQ somewhere but I've done a search and can't find any matches.
> 
> I've arranged a viewing trip to look at what now only looks like a couple of rental properties on Tuesday next.
> 
> ...


Don't hand any money over until you have seen the contract & agreed the terms. I never have in 15 years of renting.

The law allows for one month rent upfront & the equivalent of a month rent as security deposit. 

Any agent commission is separate & there's no legal guidance on how much that can be.

Most contracts are pretty standard, but some agents slip things in which aren't legal.


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## Muddy (Jan 14, 2010)

xabiaxica said:


> Don't hand any money over until you have seen the contract & agreed the terms. I never have in 15 years of renting.
> 
> The law allows for one month rent upfront & the equivalent of a month rent as security deposit.
> 
> ...


 Hi and thanx for the fast reply xabiaxica.

I feel really backed into a corner now, too late to cancel flights or hotel.

Am I overreacting. All I want is the contract terms, surly most agents must do this!

This is the agents last reply.

"Hi , i dont have any problem yo give you the contract after you choice and if you like some house give a deposit to take the property out of the marked. But i not make any contract before the properties is reserved, if is not what you or your lawyer like, am sorry but we need to cancel our appointment."
I've never rented so I hold my hands up and own up to being very stupid on this.
Does he sound legit and reasonable, or is he way off base with how things should work with most estate agents?
I'm so fed up you wouldn't believe.
Flying out with my mind so upset about this guy is not how I imagined my next trip out to Spain.

Thanx again for your advice.


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

Which contract are we talking about here?

The rental contract with the owner, or the service contract with the agent?

I might be OK with handing siome deposit money to an agent if the contract for his services is OK, but if there is no contract for his services (under which he assumes obligations and you are assigned certain rights) run away and find a professional agent.


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## Muddy (Jan 14, 2010)

Overandout said:


> Which contract are we talking about here?
> 
> The rental contract with the owner, or the service contract with the agent?
> 
> I might be OK with handing siome deposit money to an agent if the contract for his services is OK, but if there is no contract for his services (under which he assumes obligations and you are assigned certain rights) run away and find a professional agent.


Hi Overandout, thanx for the reply.

The truth is I don't know for sure!

Never rented before so showing my serious lack of experience in this field.

I had assumed from emails and chat on the phone with agent a few days ago we were talking about rental contract, not service contract at all.

Why would it be a problem for any agent to send you a copy of their service contract anyway unless they were hiding something until the last minutes!

The previous agent I went on a viewing trip sent me the rental contract soon after asking for it, not a problem for them. Very different area to where I'm visiting on Monday so I can't use them again if I wanted to!

He also mentioned a deposit of around €1000.00, depending on the monthly cost of the house!

At this point when speaking with him, he did finally agree to send the contract so my lawyer could check it, but was very reluctant as he said he's never had any problems with his contracts in 10 years. Maybe it's a matter of pride and trust with him, but for me it's just business.

But of course now he's going back on what he said during the phone call or he still didn't understand what I was asking for even though I stated it very carefully at least three times.

In the mean time based on that call I went ahead and booked flights and hotel, and with cabs it will all add up! Finding another agent would now all have to be done once I get there. I'm looking now for other agents, only see one so far close where I'll be.
Maybe face to face we can agree, but from his last email I doubt it.


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

I think it is reasonable to a certain extent that an agent doesn't know what terms the landlord might insist on including in a contract, so may be reluctant to commit.
But I am sure that many people rent through agents and only worry about the rental contract wit the landlord, having no formal regulation of the services provided by this agent, nor record of any money paid to him. This is a recioe for disaster of course.

We have had cases on here of people who have rental contracts directly with the landlord, but paying the rent to an agent who is not named or recognised in the contract.. Pure insanity, if the agent does a runner with the cash the tenant won't have a leg to stand on.


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## Katenbill (Jun 11, 2018)

Hello Muddy

Am I missing something here?
Is the agent asking you for money, and you asking for a contract on a property that you haven’t viewed yet?

I Hope the following helps:

We viewed our house with the agent in September on our viewing trip.
We gave them a reservation deposit of one months rent, which took the house off the market.
They emailed a copy of the rental agreement the same day in Spanish and English.
We had it checked out by emailing to my fluent Spanish speaking friend who confirmed that the translation was correct.
We returned to the UK to tie things up at that end and met at the agents on the move in day.
We signed the contract, they signed the contract, we paid our deposit and the reservation fee that we’d already paid was used as first months rent.
They escorted us to the property, took meter readings, checked the inventory and gave us the keys.

Ours went very smoothly.

You should not shave to pay anything before agreeing to rent the property.

Kate


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

Katenbill said:


> Hello Muddy
> 
> Am I missing something here?
> Is the agent asking you for money, and you asking for a contract on a property that you haven’t viewed yet?
> ...


In my opinion, you should NEVER hand over any money until you have signed a contract and received the keys.


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## Muddy (Jan 14, 2010)

Overandout said:


> I think it is reasonable to a certain extent that an agent doesn't know what terms the landlord might insist on including in a contract, so may be reluctant to commit.
> But I am sure that many people rent through agents and only worry about the rental contract wit the landlord, having no formal regulation of the services provided by this agent, nor record of any money paid to him. This is a recioe for disaster of course.
> 
> We have had cases on here of people who have rental contracts directly with the landlord, but paying the rent to an agent who is not named or recognised in the contract.. Pure insanity, if the agent does a runner with the cash the tenant won't have a leg to stand on.


The one property in question so far has been listed for quite a while and needs some repairs doing which he says the landlord whats to to in a couple of months. really not happy about any work being done while I'm there.
But as he's had it on his books for at least 6 weeks I think he's had plenty of time to sort any contract details with the landlord, at least IMO.

Well one thing I do clearly remember him saying is "don't worry about the contract, I'm in control of that"
He's now only got one property to show me, but said he had two when I spoke to him and would have more when I visit, but as I said once I informed him of booking hotel and flights he's gone back to having only one property which is a stupid situation I've got myself into.

After what you said I would now prefer to pay the landlord directly, but I'm sure it wont happen that way.
I wont hand over any cash unless I at least get a letter headed receipt. Not that it would be worth much if someone does a runner.

I'll only make direct bank payments for the rent after that so there is a clear history of payments, but I don't have bank account there as yet or any paperwork in place so this adds to my things to-do list.


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## xgarb (May 6, 2011)

If you can I would rent a holiday home for short term - maybe 4 weeks and then look for a place more permanent while you are here. 

That way you can do research on the ground and get a lawyer etc.

There's a few websites for holiday rentals where you are dealing with the owner directly.


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## anna_knight (Feb 27, 2019)

Why would you not rent Airbnb for the first couple of weeks? It is not only about paying a deposit without any tenancy agreement, but also seeing a property in realty. Did you have a video conference? And yes, there is no guarantee for your payment. It looks like a phishing scam story.


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## Muddy (Jan 14, 2010)

anna_knight said:


> Why would you not rent Airbnb for the first couple of weeks? It is not only about paying a deposit without any tenancy agreement, but also seeing a property in realty. Did you have a video conference? And yes, there is no guarantee for your payment. It looks like a phishing scam story.


 Hi and thanx for the reply anna_knight
Very late late reply sorry.

Thought I would give an update to my quest!
I've been out to Spain a few times and here now.
I don't have time to give a detailed breakdown of what I've been through but I will say it hasn't been the best experience.
Estate agents here for me at least have been a bad experience.
My situation perhaps differed to most as I'm not working but have funds to cover my life here for some time. 

Part of this is my fault for sure, being too specific for the house I wanted to rent perhaps. But it has to a large extent been a lot of time that could have been spent better.

Even though agents new I want to buy but rent for a short period, 6 months, this I only managed to get close to twice. 

In the case of the last house I was told the buyer wants to sell, but would consider renting, then the agent tries to push for 12 months. But when I pointed out they said the buyer wants to sell they couldn't answer that question.

All agents trying to sign me up to 12 months contracts and as I'm not working want it all up front.
I managed to agree a 6 month contract for a house very recently, was kept waiting a week after a 2nd viewing and told the owner had a buyer! Anyway, and then was told i could have the property (how nice of them) but the price would now be 100€ more pcm.
The agent put this change on the owner, the property is still advertised at the original price online!!

I've been shown houses with mold, pools falling to bits, subsidence, including one with a pool that couldn't be used because of that, and an agent that like to advertise themselves as trustworthy not telling me on two viewings, several phonecalls and emails etc that the house wasn't legal.
Not a great experience, but at least I have a list of agents I will never purchase a property through!

I've used airbnb, hotels and rented a holiday home and seen every property in person. 

I've had an interesting time here, it has been a learning experience for sure. My personal situation has been the catalyst, but every agent here has tried to exploit that. 

They are at the moment at least very short sited, business is good, shortage of houses where I'm looking, holiday season making that worse maybe, government tinkering with rental law another factor perhaps.

All in all I'm giving up on renting most probably and will look for a property to buy and do the airbnb visits see what it feels like on the ground first before parting with my cash. Not as I wished to do it, but hay, one has to adjust to the situation one has got himself into.

Thank you.




xgarb said:


> If you can I would rent a holiday home for short term - maybe 4 weeks and then look for a place more permanent while you are here.
> 
> That way you can do research on the ground and get a lawyer etc.
> 
> There's a few websites for holiday rentals where you are dealing with the owner directly.



Hi xgarb
Yes I'm doing the holiday home option thanx. I have a lawyer, 

If you don't mind, PM me the websites for contacting holiday rentals directly, I've probably got the same ones but just in case?
Thank you.


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## xgarb (May 6, 2011)

There used to be more but they seem to be merging.

https://www.holidaylettings.co.uk/
https://www.homeaway.com 

seem to be the main ones along with Airbnb.

Also this one: https://www.rentbyowner.com but it's just a scraper for properties on other sites and is quite aggressive trying to sell.

There's also two Spanish sites that have holiday lettings (and private sales) which might be useful

https://www.vibbo.com/vacaciones-y-apartamentos-toda-espana/?ca=0_s&fPos=355&fOn=c
https://www.milanuncios.com/alquiler-vacaciones/

but obviously there's no protection offered by the site.


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## andyviola (Aug 11, 2018)

Ours asked too but we've developed relationship over 3 years and she has been tireless researching for us and we visited her agents premises too. Even google streetviewed and could clearly see.her typing away inside! So wasnt just one off appearance agents...


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Ive been a landlord in the UK and for the last fifteen years have been a tenant, first in the Czech Republic and since 2008 in Spain. My golden rule is not to trust anyone in the rental business, whether owner or agent. There is scarecly any enforceable regulation to curb the rogues which they know only too well and once ripped off you have virtually no chance of getting your money back. Non- Spanish speaking newly arrived Brits are easy prey for sharks.
Of course there are honest exceptions and Ive been lucky in that the house I rented for ten years and the finca Im living in since last year belong to friends. But even here the Caveat Emptor rule applies and in both cases we drew up the contract together. 
No lawyer involved as I trust Spanish lawyers as little as I do Spanish agents. 
My lawyer is a personal friend, both members of the same political Party, so I have some confidence in her butnI always try to double- check stuff for myself wherever possible. Ditto my accountant.
Crooks get away with things more easily here, imo.


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## Muddy (Jan 14, 2010)

mrypg9 said:


> Ive been a landlord in the UK and for the last fifteen years have been a tenant, first in the Czech Republic and since 2008 in Spain. My golden rule is not to trust anyone in the rental business, whether owner or agent. There is scarecly any enforceable regulation to curb the rogues which they know only too well and once ripped off you have virtually no chance of getting your money back. Non- Spanish speaking newly arrived Brits are easy prey for sharks.
> Of course there are honest exceptions and Ive been lucky in that the house I rented for ten years and the finca Im living in since last year belong to friends. But even here the Caveat Emptor rule applies and in both cases we drew up the contract together.
> No lawyer involved as I trust Spanish lawyers as little as I do Spanish agents.
> My lawyer is a personal friend, both members of the same political Party, so I have some confidence in her butnI always try to double- check stuff for myself wherever possible. Ditto my accountant.
> Crooks get away with things more easily here, imo.


 I'm back in the UK now conducting my search from here but for a purchase property now. If a rental or a rent to buy comes along then maybe!

My gut feeling that last agent I used added on the extra money for her self and the owner new nothing about it, but I'll maybe drop by one day and ask the question and see what his reaction is.
Surprise surprise, 4 weeks or so gone by and it has been relisted with fresh pictures and with the same rental price!

I might look at taking a translator along on future viewings, I did at times feel like a very small fish in a big tank of sharks on my last trip lol


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