# Renting in Spain as foreigners



## kimuyen (Aug 8, 2013)

The renting process is dragging on longer with more complications along the way than we expected. 

First, we found a house that we liked. We put in an offer with 2-month deposit (they asked for 4 months). (I know the new law says 1 month for unfurnished and 2 for furnished flats. We have seen about 12-15 flats and in all situations in Barcelona, the owners asked for 2 months and all the way to 6 months.) The agent came back with a counter offer on price. We said we accepted the new price. And then all silence from there. For days, no returns to phone calls and emails. We finally learned from someone else in the agent's office that the owner had recently rented the house to someone else. Life sucks but we move on.

We put in an offer for another flat, agreed on the price and deposit, signed the reservation document and put down the money to reserve the flat. The owner asked for proof of income. Since we are not here under a work contract, we don't have that. But we have about 40000 euros in La Caixa and a lease contract for our house in the US ($5000/month) as source of income. The owner was still not satisfied and asked for more documents to demonstrate our financial viability. We sent a statement from our US bank with the balance of about $40000. We were scheduled to sign the contract tomorrow but the owner came back today asking for 3 month deposit. His/her concern was that our assets are in the US that s/he cannot go after if we fail to pay rent. Mind you, before this, we also sent our credit score, explaining that the score measures "credit worthiness" in the US and that we are in the top 1%, meaning that we have no records of delinquency or late payments.

I am at the end of the rope here. I thought we were fortunate enough to have some savings and a source of income through our rental. The money in La Caixa alone could cover almost 2 years of rent. I doubt that every foreigner coming to Spain has hundreds of thousands of euros in their bank accounts to qualify for a rental. 

Has anyone, particularly from a non-EU country, encountered this? Is this "normal"? What else can we do? Should we move on from this flat and look for another one?

Thank you in advance for your insight.


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## larryzx (Jul 2, 2014)

_Has anyone, particularly from a non-EU country, encountered this? Is this "normal"? What else can we do? Should we move on from this flat and look for another one?_

From experience I can say that almost certainly your nationality has little to do with your problem, which stems from tenants abusing property and failing to pay rent. Once bitten twice shy.

My son has allowed a friend whom we can trust to live rent free in an apartment as previous tenants have been real problems, especially with leaving the apartment damaged, and items broken and missing. He has also decided that the income from renting legally is just not worth the problems.

Good luck Kim


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

larryzx said:


> _Has anyone, particularly from a non-EU country, encountered this? Is this "normal"? What else can we do? Should we move on from this flat and look for another one?_
> 
> From experience I can say that almost certainly your nationality has little to do with your problem, which stems from tenants abusing property and failing to pay rent. Once bitten twice shy.
> 
> ...


you could be right, though I suspect it's a combination of the two

I rent - have done for 11 years nearly & we've moved around the town a bit for one reason or another
I've never been asked to provide a reference, financial statements - nothing

which I have to admit I find somewhat odd tbh - although not all the agents around here yet ask for these, it is becoming rather more commonplace


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## castaway06 (Jul 25, 2014)

When we first came, it was a similar situation with no job contracts. What we did to convince the landlord to let us rent the property was to offer to pay the first six months rent up front. This was put into the contract with a clause that said if we left within those six months we didn't get a refund. Apart from that we only paid the usual 1 month deposit and 1 month agency fee.


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## kimuyen (Aug 8, 2013)

Update: We insisted that someone with a work contract or assets in Spain is no more secured than we are. The owner now agrees to a 2-month deposit. His contract is another matter. Among other things, he asks us to waive a bunch of things. We only agree to Article 25 (First right of refusal - we have no interest in buying his property if he does sell). So back to the negotiation table.

Just for fun, this is what he is asking:

13 - Renuncia
El arrendatario renuncia expresamente a todos los beneficios y derechos especiales que le concede la L.A.U.y legislación concordante y en especial: a) Al derecho de 30 días previstos en el art. 101 de L.A.U., por lo que los aumentos o disminuciones se producirán de forma automática, sin necesidad de previo aviso. b) A los derechos de tanteo, retracto o impugnación establecida y para todos los supuestos de venta, donación, adjudicación de la vivienda arrendada y sus anexos a terceras personas. Con renuncia expresa del arrendatario a los arts. 22, 25 y 26 de la vigente L.A.U.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

kimuyen said:


> Update: We insisted that someone with a work contract or assets in Spain is no more secured than we are. The owner now agrees to a 2-month deposit. His contract is another matter. Among other things, he asks us to waive a bunch of things. We only agree to Article 25 (First right of refusal - we have no interest in buying his property if he does sell). So back to the negotiation table.
> 
> Just for fun, this is what he is asking:
> 
> ...


never never never sign a contract which renounces any of your rights to protection under the LAU


I can't say that strongly enough

*NEVER!!*


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## larryzx (Jul 2, 2014)

kimuyen said:


> Update:
> 
> 13 - Renuncia
> El arrendatario renuncia expresamente a todos los beneficios y derechos especiales que le concede la L.A.U.y legislación concordante y en especial: a) Al derecho de 30 días previstos en el art. 101 de L.A.U., por lo que los aumentos o disminuciones se producirán de forma automática, sin necesidad de previo aviso. b) A los derechos de tanteo, retracto o impugnación establecida y para todos los supuestos de venta, donación, adjudicación de la vivienda arrendada y sus anexos a terceras personas. Con renuncia expresa del arrendatario a los arts. 22, 25 y 26 de la vigente L.A.U.


Without knowing what the Articles refereed to are (and even them having the knowledge of a lawyer who knows the law on those matters) I do not believe anyone can give an opinion on the fairness or otherwise.

PS Apologies if I am in breach of Rule 6 by quoting in Spanish


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## kimuyen (Aug 8, 2013)

We tried to look up "el art. 101 de L.A.U." and if I understand it correctly, I think there was a court case where the landlord tried to evict the tenants for non-paying. As it turned out, the landlord raised the rent without notifying the tenant and tenant continued to pay the old amount. 

For the new law, Ley 29/1994, de 24 de noviembre, de Arrendamientos Urbanos. T?TULO II.?De los arrendamientos de vivienda., below are Articles 22 and 26 that we refused to accept.

Article 22 Improvement Works 

1. the lessee is obliged to bear the performance by the lessor improvement works whose execution can not reasonably be deferred until the conclusion of the lease.

February. Landlord intending to carry one of those works shall give written notice to the tenant at least three months in advance of their nature, onset, duration, and estimated cost. During the period of one month from such notice, the tenant may cancel the contract unless you are not disturbed or irrelevant affect housing leased mode. The lease shall expire within two months from the withdrawal, during which shall not commence work.

March. Lessee supporting works shall be entitled to a reduction of income in proportion to the portion of the housing which is deprived because of those, as well as compensation for costs that require you to carry out works .


Article 26 Property Occupancy 

When running in rented housing conservation works or works approved by a competent authority made uninhabitable, the tenant will have the option to terminate the contract or to withdraw from the contract without any compensation.

The suspension of the contract will, until the completion of works, the cessation of the contract term and the suspension of the obligation to pay rent.


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

@kimuyen - WALK AWAY - plenty more fish in the sea.

One has to wonder why he doesn't want to abide by the law!!??


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## mike kelly (Aug 12, 2009)

kimuyen said:


> Article 22 Improvement Works
> 
> 1. the lessee is obliged to bear the performance by the lessor improvement works whose execution can not reasonably be deferred until the conclusion of the lease.
> 
> ...



I found this easier to understand in Spanish!

As a former landlord myself, I can say that many Spanish tenants have a bad attitude and it's no wonder that many people prefer to leave their property empty rather than rent it out.


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## mike kelly (Aug 12, 2009)

kimuyen, do you have a residence permit for Spain? If so, how did you manage to get it as a non EU citizen?


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

mike kelly said:


> kimuyen, do you have a residence permit for Spain? If so, how did you manage to get it as a non EU citizen?


kimuyen is married to an EU citizen - so it wasn't too difficult for residencia to be arranged



:focus:


does anyone have any more opinions or advice on this issue?


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## kimuyen (Aug 8, 2013)

Update: We had a meeting with the agent and his co-worker who spoke very good English. We let the agent know that we would not agree to the wavers other than the right of first refusal and that we were very close to walking away if this is not resolved. When we pointed out these articles and what implications they have for us if we waived them, they admitted that they were not very familiar with these articles in the law. But then one of them tried to convince us that it was not uncommon to have these waived. We called him out that if he was not familiar with these articles then how did he know that waiving these is common. So do look out for BS when you talk to people who try to close the deal in their favor.

The owner and her lawyer were on the way to sign the contract (the appointment was scheduled previously). The agent office gave them a heads up regarding our ground on the waivers. So, we finally came face to face with the owner and her lawyer (and I swear, she looked just like The Devil Wears Prada character or that much intimidating). She is an owner of a company that owns many properties in Barcelona and not an individual owner. 

After lots of Spanish and probably Catalan exchanged between the owner/lawyer and the agent/representative, they agreed to remove the waivers. After two weeks, we now have a place to call home. 

A few things we learned through this process: 1) know our rights - Read a lot on the matter and read some more if what we heard was inconsistent, 2) have a plan B (or C or D) and are willing to walk away, 3) don't let our limited Spanish intimidate us and 4) be persistent (if we know our rights, at the end, the other side would give (hopefully).


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

Well done for sticking with it - I hope it all works out for you now.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

kimuyen said:


> Update: We had a meeting with the agent and his co-worker who spoke very good English. We let the agent know that we would not agree to the wavers other than the right of first refusal and that we were very close to walking away if this is not resolved. When we pointed out these articles and what implications they have for us if we waived them, they admitted that they were not very familiar with these articles in the law. But then one of them tried to convince us that it was not uncommon to have these waived. We called him out that if he was not familiar with these articles then how did he know that waiving these is common. So do look out for BS when you talk to people who try to close the deal in their favor.
> 
> The owner and her lawyer were on the way to sign the contract (the appointment was scheduled previously). The agent office gave them a heads up regarding our ground on the waivers. So, we finally came face to face with the owner and her lawyer (and I swear, she looked just like The Devil Wears Prada character or that much intimidating). She is an owner of a company that owns many properties in Barcelona and not an individual owner.
> 
> ...


so pleased for you - you stood your ground & got what you wanted


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## kimuyen (Aug 8, 2013)

xabiachica said:


> so pleased for you - you stood your ground & got what you wanted


Well you know, if I did not stumble on this site a year ago, I would be so lost and probably have made so many costly mistakes. Now on to shopping for appliances. It will be another adventure, I am sure.

Thank you for your help and everyone on this site who has helped me!!!


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