# Gas v Electric



## sallykam (Oct 23, 2016)

We are currently a 2 bed 2 bath 2nd floor flat with electric water heater......Natural Gas is being put into the apartments and the gas company is offering free installation of 11 litre gas water heater.

We are worried about the loss of pressure as at the moment it is great even with 2 people using both showers at the same time.

have others changed from electric to gas and what is their experience I would be grateful for any information


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## tebo53 (Sep 18, 2014)

I've heard it can be very expensive when on natural gas!


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## sallykam (Oct 23, 2016)

yes so unsure as to what to do......don't want to miss out if its a good idea....but happy with what we have with the electric boiler......but everyone is telling us it is much cheaper changing to natural gas !!!!!


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## Madliz (Feb 4, 2011)

I have a natural gas boiler that heats water on demand. No tank, so never-ending hot water.


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## sallykam (Oct 23, 2016)

do you find you pressure really good....even with two people using a shower at the same time.....and can I ask do you find it a saving financially .......

we are so unsure what to do......


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## Madliz (Feb 4, 2011)

sallykam said:


> do you find you pressure really good....even with two people using a shower at the same time.....and can I ask do you find it a saving financially .......
> 
> we are so unsure what to do......


We can't have two showers at the same time, but that's easy to work around. The saving for us was staggering, but we were on propane before. Electricity in Spain is generally acknowledged to be the most expensive way to power anything, though.


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## tebo53 (Sep 18, 2014)

The problem with having natural gas installed is that you will always have to pay the 'standing' charge. I know some people who have changed from Butano bottled gas to natural and have regretted it.

We have an electric boiler and can get two showers out of it and also find it economical.


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## Madliz (Feb 4, 2011)

tebo53 said:


> The problem with having natural gas installed is that you will always have to pay the 'standing' charge. I know some people who have changed from Butano bottled gas to natural and have regretted it.


Indeed, I know people using bottled gas and am very jealous of their outgoings. My boiler runs the central heating in my house, too, and at 900m/3000', I need it, so bottles wouldn't really be practical. In my next abode, an apartment, butano would be my first choice.


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## sallykam (Oct 23, 2016)

thank you for your input its always good to get other peoples opinions........change is not always for the best !!!!


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

tebo53 said:


> The problem with having natural gas installed is that you will always have to pay the 'standing' charge. I know some people who have changed from Butano bottled gas to natural and have regretted it.
> 
> We have an electric boiler and can get two showers out of it and also find it economical.


Same here. We changed our old gas boiler (run on butano) for an electric one, mainly for convenience as we didn't appreciate the gas bottle running out mid shower! We can both have a shower with our electric water heater, no problem. Normally we have it on a timer but if we have people staying we leave it on all the time and that provides enough hot water for all of us.

I'd only consider changing from an electric water heater to natural gas if I could have gas central heating as part of the deal, otherwise I don't think it would be worth it.


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## davexf (Jan 26, 2009)

Hola 

There are people on the Costa Esuri that have changed from Natural gas to bottled gas because of the standing charge. They use the apartments mainly in the summer and certainly not all winter; if they were to require heating all winter then natural gas with central heating would be the better option. 

Davexf


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## VFR (Dec 23, 2009)

It is worth bearing in mind the price of Butano (from Repsol) is controlled by the Government so in effect receives a subsidy.


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## chrisnation (Mar 2, 2009)

tebo53 said:


> I've heard it can be very expensive when on natural gas!


You've heard, have you? Better contact the below and tell them they have it the wrong way round 

New figures from the EU stats office Eurostat

Spain. Electricity is 23.7 €/kWh. Gas 9.3 €/kWh. 

Spain 3rd most expensive in the EU for electricity, when earnings factored in, after Germany and Portugal.


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## chrisnation (Mar 2, 2009)

tebo53 said:


> The problem with having natural gas installed is that you will always have to pay the 'standing' charge. I know some people who have changed from Butano bottled gas to natural and have regretted it.
> 
> We have an electric boiler and can get two showers out of it and also find it
> economical.


Electricity has a standing charge also.

As for economical ....

New figures from the EU stats office Eurostat

Spain. Electricity is 23.7 €/kWh. Gas 9.3 €/kWh.

Spain 3rd most expensive in the EU for electricity, when earnings factored in, after Germany and Portugal.


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## jimenato (Nov 21, 2009)

I believe the subsidy for bottled gas is only on the medium sized bottles - the ones which fit in a room heater. 

The huge ones are much more expensive.

BTW For comparison the electricity rate on our tariff here in the UK is 12.89 p/kwh and for gas 3.18 p/kwh.


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## tebo53 (Sep 18, 2014)

chrisnation said:


> You've heard, have you? Better contact the below and tell them they have it the wrong way round
> 
> New figures from the EU stats office Eurostat
> 
> ...


Thanks for the sarcasm but I meant compared with bottled gas !


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

jimenato said:


> I believe the subsidy for bottled gas is only on the medium sized bottles - the ones which fit in a room heater.
> 
> The huge ones are much more expensive.
> 
> BTW For comparison the electricity rate on our tariff here in the UK is 12.89 p/kwh and for gas 3.18 p/kwh.


On the PVPC tariff with Endesa, I pay €0.133681 p/kwh for electricity. Standing charges for 3.45 kw potencia are €25.87 for two months - how much are the standing charges in the UK, if you don't mind my asking? Here the electricity tax adds another €3.66 per two months to the bill and 21% IVA adds €16.15.

The figure quoted by chrisnation of 23.7 p/kwh for electricity in Spain seems very high to me, I don't know how they work that out. Even if they count average standing charges and taxes in with that, it still seems too high.


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## Rabbitcat (Aug 31, 2014)

tebo53 said:


> The problem with having natural gas installed is that you will always have to pay the 'standing' charge. I know some people who have changed from Butano bottled gas to natural and have regretted it.
> 
> We have an electric boiler and can get two showers out of it and also find it economical.



But there is also a ridiculous/astronomical standing charge with electricity


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## jimenato (Nov 21, 2009)

Lynn R said:


> On the PVPC tariff with Endesa, I pay €0.133681 p/kwh for electricity. Standing charges for 3.45 kw potencia are €25.87 for two months - how much are the standing charges in the UK, if you don't mind my asking? Here the electricity tax adds another €3.66 per two months to the bill and 21% IVA adds €16.15.
> 
> The figure quoted by chrisnation of 23.7 p/kwh for electricity in Spain seems very high to me, I don't know how they work that out. Even if they count average standing charges and taxes in with that, it still seems too high.


Standing charge is 19.67 p (presumably per day) = 11.99 ish per 2 month. 

They give a Tariff Comparison Rate which is based on average usage including the standing charge which for us is Elec = 13.66 p/kwh and gas = 3.18 p/kwh. All include VAT.


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## tebo53 (Sep 18, 2014)

Rabbitcat said:


> But there is also a ridiculous/astronomical standing charge with electricity


What a ridiculous statement Rabbitcat! My whole electric bill only amounts to average €40 a month!


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## Madliz (Feb 4, 2011)

tebo53 said:


> What a ridiculous statement Rabbitcat! My whole electric bill only amounts to average €40 a month!


It is not a ridiculous statement. Not all of us pay so little. With 3-phase electricity, I am paying a lot more per month before I've consumed one unit of electricity. 

When people started cutting back, at the onset of the crisis, how else were the electricity companies to maintain their profits but to increase the standing charge component of the bills?


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## Rabbitcat (Aug 31, 2014)

jimenato said:


> Standing charge is 19.67 p (presumably per day) = 11.99 ish per 2 month.
> 
> They give a Tariff Comparison Rate which is based on average usage including the standing charge which for us is Elec = 13.66 p/kwh and gas = 3.18 p/kwh. All include VAT.





tebo53 said:


> What a ridiculous statement Rabbitcat! My whole electric bill only amounts to average €40 a month!


How dare you sir!

Right, you and me outside now!!!!

Bottom line is bills being expensive are entirely relative to the customers financial situ and ability to pay

In my case we are very poor

Indeed we had kids solely to have a cheaper alternative to turkey for Xmas


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## gus-lopez (Jan 4, 2010)

tebo53 said:


> What a ridiculous statement Rabbitcat! My whole electric bill only amounts to average €40 a month!


The greater the potencia that you are contracted for the higher the monthly standing charge. In the UK the average supply is 80 to 100Amps. Try contracting for that potencia,18-23Amps ,here & you'll find that the monthly standing charge is likely to be around 100+€uros.:Cry: Before you use any electric.


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## tebo53 (Sep 18, 2014)

gus-lopez said:


> The greater the potencia that you are contracted for the higher the monthly standing charge. In the UK the average supply is 80 to 100Amps. Try contracting for that potencia,18-23Amps ,here & you'll find that the monthly standing charge is likely to be around 100+€uros.:Cry: Before you use any electric.


Exactly, it's no good all the posters moaning about their standing charges and prices per unit when they surely must have known the prices etc when they signed up for it


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## Madliz (Feb 4, 2011)

tebo53 said:


> Exactly, it's no good all the posters moaning about their standing charges and prices per unit when they surely must have known the prices etc when they signed up for it





> When people started cutting back, at the onset of the crisis, how else were the electricity companies to maintain their profits but to increase the standing charge component of the bills?


They changed the goalposts! However much I try and cut back, I'm stuffed.

Also, speaking personally, I didn't know 20 years ago to ask whether the house we were buying had 3-phase electricity. I'd never heard of such a thing. When I talk about this problem to friends here, most of them don't understand either.

Basically, if I get up and get breakfast for my family, unless I have 10+Kw contracted, the ICP shuts off the power.


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## sallykam (Oct 23, 2016)

Goodness it sounds so confusing.......so are you able to actually get your standing charge reduced !!!


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## tebo53 (Sep 18, 2014)

Madliz said:


> They changed the goalposts! However much I try and cut back, I'm stuffed.
> 
> Also, speaking personally, I didn't know 20 years ago to ask whether the house we were buying had 3-phase electricity. I'd never heard of such a thing. When I talk about this problem to friends here, most of them don't understand either.
> 
> Basically, if I get up and get breakfast for my family, unless I have 10+Kw contracted, the ICP shuts off the power.


As far as I'm aware, having led an industrious life in factories, 3 phase electricity is designed for industrial purposes, can't imagine why it would be installed in a house. Do you live in a farm house or similar?


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## Madliz (Feb 4, 2011)

sallykam said:


> Goodness it sounds so confusing.......so are you able to actually get your standing charge reduced !!!


Thank you for your empathy. 

One can reduce the standing charge by reducing the kW you contract. The difficulty is finding the balance between being able to live your life and use the electricity you need, without endless power cuts, while being able to afford the charges.


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## Madliz (Feb 4, 2011)

tebo53 said:


> As far as I'm aware, having led an industrious life in factories, 3 phase electricity is designed for industrial purposes, can't imagine why it would be installed in a house. Do you live in a farm house or similar?


It is for the swimming pool pump.


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## Madliz (Feb 4, 2011)

Switching the thread back to gas, if it is of interest my latest (natural gas) bill shows €14.49 in standing charge, €2.46 for meter rental (!) and €14.49 in gas, plus taxes. This is for 59 days. The next bill will much higher as the central heating gets used more.

€7 a month for the standing charge is something you don't have to pay with bottled gas, but it's not bad for the added convenience that piped gas brings you.

€7 a month is a huge contrast to what I pay for the privilege of having sockets!


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## Desiato (Jun 1, 2015)

Madliz said:


> It is for the swimming pool pump.


Liz, I had mine reduced from 13.85kW to 6.9kW a year ago and it´s knocked about €75* a month off the bill (including making a few cost cutting exercises like decommissioning the backup fridge and freezer and constantly following my boys around turning lights off after them and sending their laptops to sleep. Also limiting the pool pump to 4 hours a day in July/August, now down to 1 hour and will stay that way until March). My bill is now ONLY €100 a month (plus the gas bill and the €40 a month standing charge for the water and....etc. Not moaning, just stating). 


*€355 was average two monthly bill from April 2013 to Dec 2015


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

tebo53 said:


> Exactly, it's no good all the posters moaning about their standing charges and prices per unit when they surely must have known the prices etc when they signed up for it


I think some people make what is called "a mistake". Of course, some people are more prone to make mistakes and others to walk the road of perfection...
We bought the house we are in 22 years ago. I was 7/8 months pregnant at the time and I wasn't thinking about standing charges on the electric bill and I don't think my husband was either. It was our first child and the first time I'd bought a house.
The biggest mistake we made was not thinking about the orientation of the house which is north south.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

To the OP. I haven't read through all the thread so I don't kow if I'm repeating info, but we changed from electric/ bottled gas to natural gas many yars ago. I don't know how it works out financially exactly, but I do know it's not a massive saving if any. 
What you could do is have the pre instalation done so you take advantage of the deal and not get it actually hooked up until you see how it works out for your neighbours! Also it's probably a selling point when you get to the moving on stage.
We live on an urb of about a hundred houses and I reckon 95 houses changed over on the initial deal.


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## The Skipper (Nov 26, 2014)

Madliz said:


> It is for the swimming pool pump.


I must admit to being puzzled by this. The most powerful pool pump I have seen is 2kw, for a 10x5 pool, so what size pool do you have? It must be gigantic to require a pump needing a three-phase supply, unless I am totally misunderstanding this. Like Tebo, I thought three-phase power supplies were only needed for industrial premises and I have never (in the UK, at least) heard of a three-phase supply to a house. I would be interested to learn more if anyone can explain. By the way, my potencia is 6.7kw and this comfortably supplies a main house and a separate guest cottage, both with air con and ovens (although not likely to be used at the same time) and a pool. Our monthly bill varies between €80 and €100 but we use log burners for heat and gas for cooking. All my lights are LED which in the main kitchen alone cut consumption from 450w to 36w (nine 4w spots replacing nine 50w spots!).


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## Madliz (Feb 4, 2011)

Desiato, is your supply 3-phase? 

Snikpoh, the pool is 10x5m and all the houses around here with a pool have 3-phase, so peoples' assumptions are that having the pool is the reason. Maybe a pool on top everything else pushes the power needs too high? You may guess that this is all gobbledegook to me by nature, but I've been trying to learn as I go along. 

I have recently applied to reduce the potencia to 10 but the small print tells us to allow 78 days for the change to be made. 

If I had opted for a potencia of 6,6kW, am I not correct in thinking that a 3-phase system means 2.2 would be the maximum one could use on each phase before the power tripped? A big problem I have is an electric oven and hob. A good Sunday lunch would be impossible on 2.2kW as the oven alone probably draws 2.

Any comments or corrections would be appreciated.


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## Desiato (Jun 1, 2015)

Madliz said:


> Desiato, is your supply 3-phase?
> 
> Snikpoh, the pool is 10x5m and all the houses around here with a pool have 3-phase, so peoples' assumptions are that having the pool is the reason. Maybe a pool on top everything else pushes the power needs too high? You may guess that this is all gobbledegook to me by nature, but I've been trying to learn as I go along.
> 
> ...


Yes mine is 3 phase and we were also told "the pool pump" is the main reason for it being 3-phase. I'm no sparky so can't tell you why this is the stock answer but having done a bit of googling, it is perfectly possible to run a pool pump on a single phase. It seems to be a bit of a chicken and egg situation, which came first, the 3 phase line or the 3 phase pool pump? It would seem that you HAVE to have a 3 phase pump if you have a 3-phase line so if we chose to downgrade to a single phase line, we would need a new pool pump. I've also read that it's possible for a single phase pool pump to run on a 3 phase line which makes sense as most things run on a single phase but it´s not as "efficient" (whatever that means).

It was also suggested to me that a 3 phase line simply divides the total power by three but I just couldn't believe this as it made no sense. I argued with the electrician that many people on this site live happily with 3.3kW and are all electric (we have gas for heating and hot water) so how was that possible? I didn't get a definitive answer but what I can tell you is that we are surviving comfortably on a 6.9kW supply with only the occasional trip when too many cooking appliances go on at once. 

I could be wrong but my thinking is that with a 3 phase line, what you should do is get your electrician to balance out your appliances over the three lines so that there is an equal split. So when it's time to start cooking and you have your electric hob, your electric oven and say your microwave on at the same time, you want to have each of these on a different line. If each was drawing 2kW that would total 6kW but as they are spread out, they don't trip the switch as they haven't reached 6.9kW, I think that's how it works but I will get confirmation from my electrician as I still need to balance my load a bit as well.


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## Desiato (Jun 1, 2015)

I've just realised that I've said pretty much what you have but missed out the key difference. I'm pretty certain the maximum on each line isn't 2.2kW (in your example) but 6.6kW so you can have a 3kW kettle and an electric hob running at 3kW without tripping the switch because their total hasn't reached your contracted limit of 6.6kW. From what I've read it's a good idea to balance the load because a 3-phase line works better that way but it's not critical if one line goes over a third so long as the other two don't at the same time, if that makes sense?


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Often the reason you find 3 phase supplies in houses was/is to run an electric stove. Single phase will give you 220/240v whereas a three phase supply will give you 360 - 400v allowing you to have a higher wattage for the same amount of current. You will frequently find single phase and three phase in the same property in the US and South America where the standard voltage is only 110-120v, the three phase gives them 180-200v.


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## davexf (Jan 26, 2009)

Hola, 

Perhaps a simpler explanation; think of a single phase 220v at 50 cycles a minute. That's 50 times a minute it pulses. 

A three phase motor has 150 pulses (each of the three lines is a single phase) so three times the power. Very good for motors but unnecessary for a kettle 

Davexf


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

davexf said:


> Hola,
> 
> Perhaps a simpler explanation; think of a single phase 220v at 50 cycles a minute. That's 50 times a minute it pulses.
> 
> ...


I think you've got a little confused there. Instead of pulses, what you get is three waves each 120° apart so the force exerted is a little more continuous in three phase by comparison with single phase and you don't get 3 times but 1.666 times the force..


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## davexf (Jan 26, 2009)

baldilocks said:


> I think you've got a little confused there. Instead of pulses, what you get is three waves each 120° apart so the force exerted is a little more continuous in three phase by comparison with single phase and you don't get 3 times but 1.666 times the force..


Hola 

Would you like to explain that in simple terms so that everyone understands? People understand a pulse more than a wave and could you explain simply why it is 1.666 times the force? 

Davexf


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

davexf said:


> Hola
> 
> Would you like to explain that in simple terms so that everyone understands? People understand a pulse more than a wave and could you explain simply why it is 1.666 times the force?
> 
> Davexf


This explains it all nicely:
What You Might Want to Know About Electricity Before You Talk to Your Electrician


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## Madliz (Feb 4, 2011)

Desiato said:


> I've just realised that I've said pretty much what you have but missed out the key difference. I'm pretty certain the maximum on each line isn't 2.2kW (in your example) but 6.6kW so you can have a 3kW kettle and an electric hob running at 3kW without tripping the switch because their total hasn't reached your contracted limit of 6.6kW. From what I've read it's a good idea to balance the load because a 3-phase line works better that way but it's not critical if one line goes over a third so long as the other two don't at the same time, if that makes sense?


If that were the case, why would anyone contract more than 6,6?

I had 6,6 up until five years ago. After being widowed, I contacted all the utility companies to change the contracts into my name. This was around the time that ICPs were being introduced. Since I was changing contract details, they obliged me to have one fitted, way before anyone else locally. From that moment on, we were plagued with power cuts. Son gets up for breakfast, toaster, kettle and microwave go on, power cuts off, and so on throughout the day. I had to increase the potencia! This involved getting a boletín, a 3-figure sum and a lot of hassle. Luckily, the company whose name was on the meter box were still in business, so I called them to do the boletín, hopeful that they wouldn't mark their own work down. The man who came had done the original installation 20 years before! With the completed boletín, I could opt for, from memory, 9,9 or 13,2 and to be on the safe side (and avoid having to go through the process again) I opted for the higher one. Later, the electricity companies/government changed the rules of the game so that the contracted power element of the bill made up a greater proportion of the bill. The charges are now unsustainable. 

I have therefore applied to have the potencia lowered to the next band (what was 9ish, now 10ish), too scared to drop to 6,6 as I couldn't live with that before, from experience!


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## Rabbitcat (Aug 31, 2014)

Bottom line is it's bloody dear and the standing charge is ridiculous


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Rabbitcat said:


> Bottom line is it's bloody dear and the standing charge is ridiculous


I think that the argument is that the standing charge to to cover the costs of the infrastructure and, obviously, a higher current capacity requires heavier duty cabling, hence the higher charge for higher capacity. By combining electricity, bottled gas and solar-heated hot water, we can manage with only a 3.3kW electricity supply. We even use an electric kettle and a couple of electric heaters on that.


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## Rabbitcat (Aug 31, 2014)

Well we will only put one bulb in our new place!!!!


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Rabbitcat said:


> Well we will only put one bulb in our new place!!!!


Daffodil or tulip?


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

Madliz said:


> From that moment on, we were plagued with power cuts. Son gets up for breakfast, toaster, kettle and microwave go on, power cuts off, and so on throughout the day. I had to increase the potencia!


That is really strange, because we only have 3.45kw potencia, and I very often have the kettle, toaster and microwave on all at the same time when making breakfast, plus the fridge-freezer and TV are on. We do have an ICP (in fact we now have a smart meter which has one incorporated in it).


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## Madliz (Feb 4, 2011)

Lynn R said:


> That is really strange, because we only have 3.45kw potencia, and I very often have the kettle, toaster and microwave on all at the same time when making breakfast, plus the fridge-freezer and TV are on. We do have an ICP (in fact we now have a smart meter which has one incorporated in it).


6,6 kW on a 3-phase system gives you only 2,2 per phase, if my understanding is correct.


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## Desiato (Jun 1, 2015)

Madliz said:


> If that were the case, why would anyone contract more than 6,6?
> 
> I had 6,6 up until five years ago. After being widowed, I contacted all the utility companies to change the contracts into my name. This was around the time that ICPs were being introduced. Since I was changing contract details, they obliged me to have one fitted, way before anyone else locally. From that moment on, we were plagued with power cuts. Son gets up for breakfast, toaster, kettle and microwave go on, power cuts off, and so on throughout the day. I had to increase the potencia! This involved getting a boletín, a 3-figure sum and a lot of hassle. Luckily, the company whose name was on the meter box were still in business, so I called them to do the boletín, hopeful that they wouldn't mark their own work down. The man who came had done the original installation 20 years before! With the completed boletín, I could opt for, from memory, 9,9 or 13,2 and to be on the safe side (and avoid having to go through the process again) I opted for the higher one. Later, the electricity companies/government changed the rules of the game so that the contracted power element of the bill made up a greater proportion of the bill. The charges are now unsustainable.
> 
> I have therefore applied to have the potencia lowered to the next band (what was 9ish, now 10ish), too scared to drop to 6,6 as I couldn't live with that before, from experience!


6.6kW or for me, 6.9kW does mean we do occasionally trip the switch and like your son, it always seems to be a combination of toaster, kettle, deep fat fryer, microwave, oven. Kettles and toasters are notorious for whacking up the power as they have to heat very quickly and are often between 2/3kW's each. From what I've read, if the toaster, microwave and kettle are on the same phase they can trip the switch even though you haven't reached your 6.6kW because you have overloaded one phase so again, I would get your man to tell you what is on each phase and then spread them around, especially the ones you know often come on at once. 

If it's not too late, your man can also rig up a simulation 6.6kW supply by changing the fuses so that it will trip sooner. This is how we found out we could live with 6.9kW before pulling the trigger and getting the electricity supplier to make it official. 

If money was no object then I'd go with 10kW to avoid the occasional trip. If I had all electric heating/water, ran the pool pump 24/7, ran machinery/motors from the shed and half a dozen telly's on all day, I might plump for the 13.8kW but that's only if money was no object.


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## Desiato (Jun 1, 2015)

Lynn R said:


> That is really strange, because we only have 3.45kw potencia, and I very often have the kettle, toaster and microwave on all at the same time when making breakfast, plus the fridge-freezer and TV are on. We do have an ICP (in fact we now have a smart meter which has one incorporated in it).


From previous threads I found out that there are quite a few people here like Lynn who seem to be able to run everything under the sun with a either a 3.3kW or 4.4kW*(ish) and have never tripped the switch. Yet some of us with 3-phase lines struggle to keep the lights on with a 6.6kW supply....very puzzling and something my electrician couldn't explain. 

I have a 3-phase monitor that tells me that when I wake up the house is using 500/600 watts (fridge freezer, laptop, ups, oven clock, alarm clock etc). If I was Lynn and I had a 3.3kW single phase supply, I'd only need to make some toast (2kW) and microwave something (1kw) and I'd trip the switch (total 3.5kW), so why doesn't it? Any sparky's out there? I'd really like to get my head around this.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Desiato said:


> From previous threads I found out that there are quite a few people here like Lynn who seem to be able to run everything under the sun with a either a 3.3kW or 4.4kW*(ish) and have never tripped the switch. Yet some of us with 3-phase lines struggle to keep the lights on with a 6.6kW supply....very puzzling and something my electrician couldn't explain.
> 
> I have a 3-phase monitor that tells me that when I wake up the house is using 500/600 watts (fridge freezer, laptop, ups, oven clock, alarm clock etc). If I was Lynn and I had a 3.3kW single phase supply, I'd only need to make some toast (2kW) and microwave something (1kw) and I'd trip the switch (total 3.5kW), so why doesn't it? Any sparky's out there? I'd really like to get my head around this.



In order to achieve your maximum potential, the load needs to be balanced over all three phases which means that your house wiring needs to be very carefully planned. If all your heavy loads (e,g, in the kitchen) are all on the same phase, then you are highly likely to trip the breaker. If you are trying to draw say 3kW on one phase while having very little on the other two phases, you will trip. The average 3.3.kW single phase will usually take a 10%, or slightly more, overload (i.e. 3.6kW) before it trips.


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

Desiato said:


> From previous threads I found out that there are quite a few people here like Lynn who seem to be able to run everything under the sun with a either a 3.3kW or 4.4kW*(ish) and have never tripped the switch. Yet some of us with 3-phase lines struggle to keep the lights on with a 6.6kW supply....very puzzling and something my electrician couldn't explain.
> 
> I have a 3-phase monitor that tells me that when I wake up the house is using 500/600 watts (fridge freezer, laptop, ups, oven clock, alarm clock etc). If I was Lynn and I had a 3.3kW single phase supply, I'd only need to make some toast (2kW) and microwave something (1kw) and I'd trip the switch (total 3.5kW), so why doesn't it? Any sparky's out there? I'd really like to get my head around this.


Not quite everything! I can't have my 2000w hairdryer and the kettle on at the same time, that seems to be the only thing that trips ours. Not hard to work around that one, though.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Why does this not happen in England? I say England because it's the only other place where I have gone into other people's homes regularly and the only reason I can remember of electricity being cut off suddenly was because of a storm, but never because of the kettle and hairdryer being used at the same time, or in my case because the iron and the oven are on at the same time.


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## Madliz (Feb 4, 2011)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Why does this not happen in England? I say England because it's the only other place where I have gone into other people's homes regularly and the only reason I can remember of electricity being cut off suddenly was because of a storm, but never because of the kettle and hairdryer being used at the same time, or in my case because the iron and the oven are on at the same time.


Doesn't the UK have a system whereby everyone gets charged much the same in standing charges and then everyone pays x/unit consumed? There is no having to decide how much power you want to use in advance, like here, with some people paying many times more than others, despite consuming a similar amount of units.


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## jimenato (Nov 21, 2009)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Why does this not happen in England? I say England because it's the only other place where I have gone into other people's homes regularly and the only reason I can remember of electricity being cut off suddenly was because of a storm, but never because of the kettle and hairdryer being used at the same time, or in my case because the iron and the oven are on at the same time.


No expert but I think the normal supply to a UK house is 60 KVA (kilowatts). In Spain, as discussed in this thread, it is far less - often 1/10th of that. 

I guess it's just one thing that the UK does better than Spain. :noidea:


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

jimenato said:


> No expert but I think the normal supply to a UK house is 60 KVA (kilowatts). In Spain, as discussed in this thread, it is far less - often 1/10th of that.
> 
> I guess it's just one thing that the UK does better than Spain. :noidea:


Much of it is down to the fact that electricity is a fairly modern things in most homes in Spain. One can see that it has all been installed in a very "amateurish" fashion in the older places. In our street there are twisted cables along the fronts of houses. Inside the houses (unless they have been rewired), much of the wiring is on bellwire. At one time the electrical usage was, at most, limited to a few lamps but then people started getting a few small appliances (e.g. a TV) and the thin bellwire just about coped. With little electrical demand the external cabling was never upgraded and most houses only had a limited "potencia" which was all they needed.

Nowadays there is a greater demand and slowly the cables along the streets are being upgraded to meet the growing demand for more power-hungry appliances, some are even getting kettles, but the supply has still to catch up with the demand. Have you ever noticed that electricity pylons marching across the countryside are far less intrusive in Spain than in UK? That is because less current-carrying capacity is required so the cables aren't as heavy and the pylons can be smaller and flimsier.


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## Desiato (Jun 1, 2015)

baldilocks said:


> In order to achieve your maximum potential, the load needs to be balanced over all three phases which means that your house wiring needs to be very carefully planned. If all your heavy loads (e,g, in the kitchen) are all on the same phase, then you are highly likely to trip the breaker. If you are trying to draw say 3kW on one phase while having very little on the other two phases, you will trip. The average 3.3.kW single phase will usually take a 10%, or slightly more, overload (i.e. 3.6kW) before it trips.


I pretty much said exactly the same thing to Liz. What I was wondering is why some people like Lynn on 3.3kW are able to run so many things at once that should add up to much more than 3.3kW without tripping the switch.


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## Madliz (Feb 4, 2011)

I found a great video (for my case, at least) with some interesting information:






Questions and answers from 12:30. Maybe I can drop to 6,6 after all, as I've just had a smart meter installed.


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