# Passports



## JoCatalunya (Mar 16, 2011)

Hi, I am not sure if this thread has already been done to death but I feel the urge to tell you guys about a few problems I have just experienced and a little loophole I have discovered with regards getting a new passport.

Like the Yorkshire lass that I am I object to paying 160 odd euros plus postage for a new passport when I can buy the same passport in the UK for 77 quid. 
So being a mercurial soul I sent off for a new passport (thanks to a form being sent to me here by a friend) for delivery to my sons address in the UK. 

This is where I hit a problem, not with actually doing this, but with the company delivering the passport to the wrong address. Bummer or what which meant it was sent back to the passport agency and I don't have a new passport and now have to go through the embassy here and pay through the nose just for the pleasure. 

Now when I called the P.A. to ask where my passport was, explaining what had happened and could they send me it back, this time to the correct address, they somehow cottoned on I wasnt in the UK and was told if I lived abroad I could not buy a passport in the UK not no way no how, it was illegal, but had to buy it through the nearest embassy (Madrid). Except, this is just not true. According to the old .Gov.UK site you are entitled to renew your passport whilst living abroad if you can return to the UK, fill in the form, hand it over using the fast-track service and have it delivered to you at any address in the UK you so desire out of peak periods this can take as little as 3 days to pull off. 

Now okay, this way you have to return lane: to the UK, but hey, relatives and friends tend to descend on us folk living here in Spain for a holiday often enough, so why not get them to reciprocate, go visit them and renew your passport and save a shed load of money to boot.


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## MaidenScotland (Jun 6, 2009)

Yes got to say I renewed my UK passport in Glasgow whilst on holiday from Egypt.. I fast tracked and collected the same day and yes they knew I lived in Egypt.
btw it is actually a legal requirement in some countries that you must carry your passport, the British embassy in Egypt are now allowing for this when you renew.


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## 90199 (Mar 21, 2010)

I too am from the "Broad Acres" hence the rose.

I am thinking of taking out Spanish Citizenship, that would make the passport cheaper!

Hepa


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## jmhalton (Apr 4, 2008)

As a Spanish Resident, what extra do you have to do to become a citizen? And why is it cheaper. If you went born in Spain then you can't have a Spanish Passport


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## 90199 (Mar 21, 2010)

jmhalton said:


> As a Spanish Resident, what extra do you have to do to become a citizen? And why is it cheaper. If you went born in Spain then you can't have a Spanish Passport


10 years resident will suffice for citizenship, or quicker if you open a business, and if you are a citizen you can obtain a Spanish passport. My neighbours hold Spanish passports, they were born in Argentina, my friend holds a Spanish passport, he was born in Wolverhampton, England. 

A British passport costs €160, I am informed that the Spanish passport is far cheaper.

However I haven't yet decided, I'm just mulling the idea over, weighing up the pros and cons,

Hepa


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## JoCatalunya (Mar 16, 2011)

What gets me is when I asked the PA why passports were so much dearer in Spain than in England I was told it was because the aid our Embassies give us comes at a price. I asked what aid is that then, they won't repatriate, they won't pay medical bills, they won't help sort out your problems with the police or local ajuntament (even though they speak Spanish). In fact they don't do anything, including issuing passports. They send off just as we do to the the PA in the UK, then charge you through the nose for the exact same item as you get if you bought the darned thing in the UK.


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## thrax (Nov 13, 2008)

Hmmmm mine runs out next year. Another decade gone. I noticed that my first passport pic was in sepia


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Hepa said:


> 10 years resident will suffice for citizenship, or quicker if you open a business, and if you are a citizen you can obtain a Spanish passport. My neighbours hold Spanish passports, they were born in Argentina, my friend holds a Spanish passport, he was born in Wolverhampton, England.
> 
> A British passport costs €160, I am informed that the Spanish passport is far cheaper.
> 
> ...


I've been thinking about it for a long time too, but I don't know if I can be bothered with all the phaff
According to this it's 25euros, but I'm not sure if it costs more the first time etc
http://www.mir.es/SGACAVT/pasaport/tasas_pasaporte.html


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

jmhalton said:


> As a Spanish Resident, what extra do you have to do to become a citizen? And why is it cheaper. If you went born in Spain then you can't have a Spanish Passport



Of course you can, as you can in most countries in the world. You just have to fulfil certain requirements, like having lived here for 10 years etc


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## jmhalton (Apr 4, 2008)

Thank you for that interrsting reply, we live and learn. I suppose then that living here, you could have dual nationality, requiring 2 passports. Will have to serve here a couple more years yet before reviewing that thought though!


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

jmhalton said:


> Thank you for that interrsting reply, we live and learn. I suppose then that living here, you could have dual nationality, requiring 2 passports. Will have to serve here a couple more years yet before reviewing that thought though!


Actually no, which is a problem for a lot of people as they don't want to give up their British nationality. Dual Spanish/ British nationality is not recognised. It depends on the country. There are many South American countries that recognise dual nationality with Spain for example


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## jmhalton (Apr 4, 2008)

I suppose its quite different when there is a mixed nationality marriage. Say, Spanish and British, in this case, the child can have two passports, one for each country. Such is the case with my grandaughter who has both a british and spanish passport but not the parents.


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## Ilovepatnevin (Feb 26, 2009)

I hope I haven't misunderstood something here but it seems that you did something that you knew was against the rules, you got found out, now you are complaining.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

jmhalton said:


> I suppose its quite different when there is a mixed nationality marriage. Say, Spanish and British, in this case, the child can have two passports, one for each country. Such is the case with my grandaughter who has both a british and spanish passport but not the parents.


Well, it depends on where you were born, and what nationality you parents are and probably if you have a dog or a cat, and went shopping on Wednesday. Only kidding, but it is, of course not straightforward. I have to admit not knowing anyone with Spanish and British passports.
My daughter, born here of British mother and Spanish father is Spainsh and I think can only be Spanish.
I have friends, mother American, father British, daughter born here. The daughter has a British passport (maybe American too?), but she couldn't claim Spanish nationality as it's who your parents are, not where you're born that matters to the Spanish authorities.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Ilovepatnevin said:


> I hope I haven't misunderstood something here but it seems that you did something that you knew was against the rules, you got found out, now you are complaining.


I don't think he/ she's complaining, just saying.


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## Sonrisa (Sep 2, 2010)

jmhalton said:


> I suppose its quite different when there is a mixed nationality marriage. Say, Spanish and British, in this case, the child can have two passports, one for each country. Such is the case with my grandaughter who has both a british and spanish passport but not the parents.


Yes, but I think the children can only hold two passports until they are 18??? Someone told me this, not sure if it's true. IT would be interesting to know, since my children also have two passports


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## jmhalton (Apr 4, 2008)

I suppose I was originally interested on this thread because of the term Citizen being used when normally, we only consider ourselves as Residents.

However, I will certainly follow up the case whereby your children could lose one of two passpprts at 18 years of age. 
Hope to come back with more information later


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

jmhalton said:


> I suppose I was originally interested on this thread because of the term Citizen being used when normally, we only consider ourselves as Residents.
> 
> However, I will certainly follow up the case whereby your children could lose one of two passpprts at 18 years of age.
> Hope to come back with more information later


The way I understand it (I'm not a lawyer) is that at the age 18, dual citizens have to make a choice, whether to retain Spanish nationality and renounce the other, or vice versa. Now you may renounce British nationality according to the Spanish law, but you may still be regarded as British by UK and can retain your passport. What happens is that as far as Spain is concerned, you are Spanish and Spanish only, and how the British government regards you as British or not is no concern to them. So you can retain both passports, but you will be regarded as Spanish (only) by Spanish authorities while you live or visit there.


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## donz (May 5, 2010)

yes it's a pain but it is a risk when you know you shouldn't do it.

I recently did the same thing and had it sent to my mums - the current rules state the passport owner has to be the one that signs for it but my thought was a) they will have to ask for id - my mum has the same initial and surname.

When it turned up, there was no question about who the person was that opened the door, just signed and job done!


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Joppa said:


> The way I understand it (I'm not a lawyer) is that at the age 18, dual citizens have to make a choice, whether to retain Spanish nationality and renounce the other, or vice versa. Now you may renounce British nationality according to the Spanish law, but you may still be regarded as British by UK and can retain your passport. What happens is that as far as Spain is concerned, you are Spanish and Spanish only, and how the British government regards you as British or not is no concern to them. So you can retain both passports, but you will be regarded as Spanish (only) by Spanish authorities while you live or visit there.


Jmhalton, Joppa's posts are usually spot on, (although I don't think even he would say take someone on a forum's advice without checking it out yourself)

Joppa. Yes, I've heard of this idea that at 18 you have to decide, and the idea that if you are Spanish, you are only Spanish the authorities. That means at the airport you have to remember which passport to use.( I have a friend who is Algerian with 2 children who are Algerian, but with American mother living in Spain and with Spanish nationality. The children have all 3 passports. They are both over 18 now. In the case of Algeria you cannot stop being Algerian, so you can't renounce your passport.) But...
Is it legal or illegal in the eyes of the Spanish/ British government to hold both passports?
My daughter (as explained in a previous post) couldn't have had/ can't have a British passport, can she?


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Jmhalton, Joppa's posts are usually spot on, (although I don't think even he would say take someone on a forum's advice without checking it out yourself)
> 
> Joppa. Yes, I've heard of this idea that at 18 you have to decide, and the idea that if you are Spanish, you are only Spanish the authorities. That means at the airport you have to remember which passport to use.( I have a friend who is Algerian with 2 children who are Algerian, but with American mother living in Spain and with Spanish nationality. The children have all 3 passports. They are both over 18 now. In the case of Algeria you cannot stop being Algerian, so you can't renounce your passport.) But...
> Is it legal or illegal in the eyes of the Spanish/ British government to hold both passports?
> My daughter (as explained in a previous post) couldn't have had/ can't have a British passport, can she?


Someone can correct me, but as far as I know, it isn't illegal to hold both passports, but Spain won't recognise non-Spanish nationality so you can't use it any fashion, either to enter Spain or to establish residency. If you do produce your British passport when you shouldn't, they will just ask for the Spanish one (if they know you are Spanish and aged 18+). 

As for your daughter, it depends on when she was born and what kind of British citizenship her mother has. If she was born or or after 1.1.1983, she is British if her mother is British citizen otherwise than by descent (i.e. born, adopted or naturalised in UK). If born before 1983, she can be registered as British. In both cases she will be British citizen by descent. While Spain won't recognise her British nationality, it won't stop her getting a British passport if she is entitled to one under UK nationality law. The actual UK rule is more complicated than this and you need to refer her case to the British consulate for a definitive answer.


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## JoCatalunya (Mar 16, 2011)

Ilovepatnevin said:


> I hope I haven't misunderstood something here but it seems that you did something that you knew was against the rules, you got found out, now you are complaining.


But it isn't against the rules, that is the thing, the UK Government say you can return to the UK, apply for a new passport and get it sent to where ever you are staying. Unfortunately for me, the courier company delivered my new passport to the wrong address and because the woman wrote "not at this address" the PA destroyed the passport before I even knew there had been a problem. Well they say allow 6 weeks for the passport to arrive in peak periods don't they.

My complaint is that when living abroad the cost of a passport which goes through no more proceedure in making costs over twice as much as it would here than it does in the UK and no one can actually tell me why that is. Yes I get vague mutterings it is because of the service we get from the embassy etc, but fact is the service they give is negligable to say the least and certainly does not warrant the hike in price.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Joppa said:


> Someone can correct me, but as far as I know, it isn't illegal to hold both passports, but Spain won't recognise non-Spanish nationality so you can't use it any fashion, either to enter Spain or to establish residency. If you do produce your British passport when you shouldn't, they will just ask for the Spanish one (if they know you are Spanish and aged 18+).
> 
> As for your daughter, it depends on when she was born and what kind of British citizenship her mother has. If she was born or or after 1.1.1983, she is British if her mother is British citizen otherwise than by descent (i.e. born, adopted or naturalised in UK). If born before 1983, she can be registered as British. In both cases she will be British citizen by descent. While Spain won't recognise her British nationality, it won't stop her getting a British passport if she is entitled to one under UK nationality law. The actual UK rule is more complicated than this and you need to refer her case to the British consulate for a definitive answer.


Thanks for the information Joppa.

I'm not actually thinking of doing it until I can see some advantage in it. ATM I can only see the drawback of the cost of having 2 passports.


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## gus-lopez (Jan 4, 2010)

JoCatalunya said:


> But it isn't against the rules, that is the thing, the UK Government say you can return to the UK, apply for a new passport and get it sent to where ever you are staying. Unfortunately for me, the courier company delivered my new passport to the wrong address and because the woman wrote "not at this address" the PA destroyed the passport before I even knew there had been a problem. Well they say allow 6 weeks for the passport to arrive in peak periods don't they.
> 
> My complaint is that when living abroad the cost of a passport which goes through no more proceedure in making costs over twice as much as it would here than it does in the UK and no one can actually tell me why that is. Yes I get vague mutterings it is because of the service we get from the embassy etc, but fact is the service they give is negligable to say the least and certainly does not warrant the hike in price.


It pays for the champagne ! arty:


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## anles (Feb 11, 2009)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Thanks for the information Joppa.
> 
> I'm not actually thinking of doing it until I can see some advantage in it. ATM I can only see the drawback of the cost of having 2 passports.


All my childrens' births were registered at the British Embassy and have British passports. They also have Spanish nationality through their father. Neither country recognises the other nationality as there is no dual nationality treaty with the UK. They all have Spanish DNI and none of htem had to choose or renounce either nationality at 18, as I say each country only recognises their own. For me the benefit is that with a UK passport, if at any time they should choose to live in the UK, they will not have any fuss with residency or other matters.


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## leedsutdgem (Jun 3, 2010)

Always wondered about this one then. I was born in belfast and have an irish passport. My husband is spanish my kids have spanish passports. Can they hold the 3 passports??? ie irish, british and spanish?


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

leedsutdgem said:


> Always wondered about this one then. I was born in belfast and have an irish passport. My husband is spanish my kids have spanish passports. Can they hold the 3 passports??? ie irish, british and spanish?


I guess it depends if _you_ can get a British passport, if so, then it _might_ be possible


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## leedsutdgem (Jun 3, 2010)

Yes if youre born in n. Ireland you can have either. I have as a child had a british passport as they were far cheaper than irish ones.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

leedsutdgem said:


> Yes if youre born in n. Ireland you can have either. I have as a child had a british passport as they were far cheaper than irish ones.


in that case I would think it might be worth exploring the possibilty


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

leedsutdgem said:


> Always wondered about this one then. I was born in belfast and have an irish passport. My husband is spanish my kids have spanish passports. Can they hold the 3 passports??? ie irish, british and spanish?


I don't think why not. They are Irish because one of their parents was Irish at the time of their birth anywhere in the world. They are British citizen by descent because of your birth in Northern Ireland and their birth in Spain. They cannot transmit British nationality to their children born outside UK, with a few exceptions (mainly to do with residence in UK). The fact that you don't hold a British passport doesn't matter - all they need to get a British passport is your NI birth certificate and their birth certificates showing full parentage. And they already hold Spanish passports. Ireland and Britain have no problems with dual or multi nationality. Spain only recognises dual/multi citizenship up till the age of 18, except for those from former Iberoamerican and some other countries or sephardic Jews. As discussed, all that means is Spain takes no account of any other nationalities your children hold past 18, so they should enter and leave Spain on their Spanish passport only.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Well, it depends on where you were born, and what nationality you parents are and probably if you have a dog or a cat, and went shopping on Wednesday. Only kidding, but it is, of course not straightforward. I have to admit not knowing anyone with Spanish and British passports.
> My daughter, born here of British mother and Spanish father is Spainsh and I think can only be Spanish.
> I have friends, mother American, father British, daughter born here. The daughter has a British passport (maybe American too?), but she couldn't claim Spanish nationality as it's who your parents are, not where you're born that matters to the Spanish authorities.


Not sure if it's still the case but pre-1989 the son/daughter of a Czech, Pole, Hungarian and other Soviet-bloc state emigre automatically had dual nationality even if born in and resident outside the country of their parent's birth.
There used to be a printed 'warning/reminder' to that effect on the inside page of the old UK passport.
I spent a lot of time in Communist Poland with the daughter of two Polish emigres back in the 'bad' old days pre-democracy and she was constantly aware that whilst there she was regarded as a Polish national and therefore subject to Polish rules and regulations that might not apply to other foreigners.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

mrypg9 said:


> Not sure if it's still the case but pre-1989 the son/daughter of a Czech, Pole, Hungarian and other Soviet-bloc state emigre automatically had dual nationality even if born in and resident outside the country of their parent's birth.
> There used to be a printed 'warning/reminder' to that effect on the inside page of the old UK passport.
> I spent a lot of time in Communist Poland with the daughter of two Polish emigres back in the 'bad' old days pre-democracy and she was constantly aware that whilst there she was regarded as a Polish national and therefore subject to Polish rules and regulations that might not apply to other foreigners.


I have heard of young men in similar circumstances being called up for military service while in the country, and being arrested at the airport if they tried to 'flee' the country.


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