# what do you do when you get 'stiffed' by the boss?



## mrsDayLewis (Nov 18, 2008)

Im fairly sure it doesnt happen quite so much to the natives here, but I hear of many instances when the boss doesnt pay the (immigrant/non Greek) worker here.
There seem to plenty of young people all prepared to come here and take up any kind of a job just so they can enjoy the climate, lifestyle and culture... but perhaps its worth a mention to them that working for small business here is not very secure. 
My near and dear one is currently going through a lengthy process with an employment office who are trying to make his old boss pay up what he owes - close to 4½ thou. This boss also (they found out) was defaulting on IKA contr. too, so the stage is now set for a battle to get this guy to do the right thing.. or start getting a lawyer.
Meanwhile, we both look for work, and down to last few pennies, and - oops - behind in the rent.... any Expat lawyers here?


----------



## wka (Sep 18, 2009)

It happens to Greek workers, including civil servants. There are plenty of Greeks who haven't been paid for the work they've done, day in and day out, over the past 10 months or longer.

Anyone in this situation needs to go to court, there is no other solution that I know of. It will take a long time and you may not get anywhere but it is better than doing nothing, right? (Of course it helps if you have a friend/relative who is a lawyer ...)


----------



## mrsDayLewis (Nov 18, 2008)

wka said:


> It happens to Greek workers, including civil servants. There are plenty of Greeks who haven't been paid for the work they've done, day in and day out, over the past 10 months or longer.
> 
> Anyone in this situation needs to go to court, there is no other solution that I know of. It will take a long time and you may not get anywhere but it is better than doing nothing, right? (Of course it helps if you have a friend/relative who is a lawyer ...)


Yep, Ive also heard from a friend of mine that a lot of nursing staff are also behind in wages, but I still think they are better off - they likely have their own home and some savings, a car or moto etc, and family that can help out, and they are still employed. Its a harsher reality for those of us who are not even hopeful to find work, are renting, and dont have any savings. 
At least having the job (along with other co-workers) gives you hope that you will get paid at some time... taking advantage of a worker - knowing he has no family to back him up and no savings for a lawyer - is just low.:sad:
Ive seen several new restaurant/cafe places open up in the past month... _someone has money still... its a puzzle to me._


----------



## mrsDayLewis (Nov 18, 2008)

KOUKLARA75 said:


> Hi,
> 
> Well no, you don't have to go sue or get a lawyer at this point. There is a Government Organization that is called ΕΠΙΘΕΩΡΗΣΗ ΕΡΓΑΣΙΑΣ (Epitheorisi Ergasias) which deals with these cases. There are many offices and in order to get faster / prompter service it's suggested you go to the office that is closer to your work area. They are VERY nice and will do their best to help you.
> 
> ...


 Thanks - yes have been to the local office, and indeed they are helpful and nice, but unfortunately they cannot force the jerk bosses to pay - they are only in a position to ask questions and check what really happened (and it helps when you kept sms messages, and other documented evidence) - but they are not in a position to enforce the boss to pay up - they DO send their recommendation for the matter (in our favor) to the court office, but then its a matter of waiting it out. This doesnt help when youre unemployed, have no savings (coz u didnt get paid!) and are without funds for rent and food!
Yes, the guy didnt properly declare to IKA (said that his employees only worked ½ the hours they actually did!) and each time IKA or others came to the business, he HID workers, and was totally stressed until they had left.
Thing is, when non-greeks are trying to get (their rightful) monies owed them by Greek bosses, and they have to go through Greek authorities, its quite a struggle - especially at this time in Hellenic economic history. 
Obviously, there is a real abusive of power by these bosses, and an attitude that thinks 'Im untouchable'... But its clear to me that there are many of these greedy people who have done their part to contribute to the economic crisis going on now. Just like the politicians, they have family money, homes in Greece and on islands, vehicles, and money to keep their cushy lifestyle going. People like us, who have worked hard for them in all good faith of being paid (a lousy 30€ a day) are the ones who have nothing, and are suffering. 
:tongue1:


----------



## KOUKLARA75 (Oct 13, 2011)

Well your case (or your friends) does not apply only to Non-Greeks, thousands of Greeks go through these types of situations and have been going through them for decades.

For the IKA issue, since the IKA sends the employee their "ensima" 3-4 times per year, how come your friend never checked it? If he omitted to check these documents once he got them, the problem can also be interpreted that along with the boss the employee made this agreement ( very common) so then the complaint does not stand from either side and they can be both held liable.


Also the contract signed with employer (Work contract) clearly states : Hours of work per day, which days employee will be employed...(so with this alone is proof of working hours) This contract is signed by both sides.

IF for some reason he did not get his IKA by mail, like many people (who either misplace them , lose them or have left their current job and are missing some) By showing up at the IKA office you can request a print out for all your Ensima just by requesting them with your ID, this is a very common procedure as many Gov services one time or another also request such a print out or for above mentioned reasons.

If your friend did not signs a contract and was working with "cash" money with his /her consent, then there is no legal way of requesting their earned $ as this is considered fraud ( IKA not paid, taxes not paid) and can result to more trouble and legal action to both sides.

1. If he /she signed a contract as they're supposed to, contract is solid proof
2. IKA - for boss to get away paying 1/2 working hours IKA only , means the NONE of the employees even checked their IKA at least once from the 3-4 times a year they received them?
3. A complaint can always be filed by each employee at the IKA offices and Taxe offices(<- by phone there is a new complaint # out or in person) this only if the employee was not working cash = illegally.
4. since ALL the employees have the same prob with same employer -they are all witness to one another, that is very strong proof 

So I don't know if they were all working $$, in that case, forget the whole issue it might boomerang and then they will have taxes to pay for undeclared work. Regarding IKA, I cannot understand how come no one had any idea they werent correctly covered, + the work contract signed by both and sent to Tax office is also an obvious piece of proof.


----------



## mrsDayLewis (Nov 18, 2008)

Well, dear Kouklara, its sounds to me as though you are a full Greek speaker, and someone who has no idea of how hard the process is for the refugees here who dont have that advantage. Plus... this is GREECE we are talking about and youre living on a parallel universe if you think that things work out as clearly as you stated them. What is set up as an ideal, and what actually happens are two different things. 
In other EU countries they have information about all the important stuff in several (15, 20) different languages... here they just smoke at desk, drink coffee and pass each case onto another office.
Also, I dont really care about the Greeks you say are going thru this for decades, coz this is about EXPATS and after all this time of getting it so wrong they should have learned something. If the system worked as well and simply as you think it does, then there wouldnt be 100s of internationals being bullied by the system here... families sleeping on street etc. 
The system here is a joke, and needs the cool headed Scandinavians to come sort it out!
BTW, contracts here are worth about 10 sheets of toilet paper each... the last contract the BOSS guy signed at the workers union and promised to do right, and still not paid up what he signed up to do.


----------



## KOUKLARA75 (Oct 13, 2011)

Hello,

Well I did not state them just to state them, I have been through it and know many people that have been through it as well. My answers and questions were based on what happens not what I assume or think.
Since its been to everyones knowledge that the system here has not been working for decades, I would think that everyone would check the things I mentioned above. Anyhow signing a contract - work contract is not smt that only goes on in Greece, that's everywhere. I asked about the contract because we all know it passes through the tax office once signed, which make it concrete proof of what is agreed and worked.

I have a full idea of what foreigners and expats have to deal with, because I am one and spend my extra time helping foreigners and expats because YES I am a full Greek speaker, I have also went through this boss not paying etc story myself,because I am a full Greek speaker I do not know how it is for refugees /expats and foreigners?

I know this is an EXPAT forum, and me being both EXPAT and Greek I asked you all these questions ( IKA was never checked, contract signed? etc) in order to help you. Nothing more nothing less. I did not know all the things I asked you myself, I did my research online and found info online from other foreigners after getting my 1st job here, since everyone knows and has heard how the system is here, and since I chose to work and stay here, I decided to be informed before anything happens. And since I went through it I answered your post in order to help you as much as I could.

I care for all people who go through something like this, whether they are Greek, foreign, black or yellow, thats why I replied, but u clearly stated you do not care about Greeks, I don't think I should bother trying to help and give info, I like helping everyone, expect racists.

Hope you find a solution to your friends issue


----------

