# Anybody....HELP!



## RSA_Newbie (Nov 5, 2011)

I have been reading the entries here since signing up for this forum regarding non-South African spouses of SA citizens and getting work permits. I am married and living in Cape Town with my spouse for over four months now and am here on a "relative's permit" that states "to reside with South African spouse". The information regarding all this is very confusing and HA seems to be a very unreliable source. I believe I am caught in the Catch 22 of not being able to get interviewed for jobs because I don't have a work permit and not being able to get a work permit until I can produce a verifiable job offer!!!

Then reading some of the postings here has be questioning whether or not my residency permit is a true spousal permit that I can add a work endorsement/permit to, though my application included a copy of my unabridged marriage certificate when I received it in Los Angeles before I left the US. We are thinking about making an appointment at our local HA office to speak to someone and get my situation straightened out but again, I question the information I might get from HA. 

In the meantime i am working for myself to try and get something going (which now I'm questioning if that is even legal). I NEED TO WORK! I know it's tough finding a job here with the economy, labor laws and me being a white male foreigner but I'm married to a citizen! There has got to be some way to resolve my situation in legal terms so I can confidently seek work and obtain whatever permits I need.

My current understanding is I may:
1. Seek work legally in South Africa on my temporary permit
2. Once I receive an offer letter, can apply for the necessary work permit
3. I must renew that permit annually as long as I work for that company
4. If I change companies, must apply for a new permit specific to that company
5. All that is necessary to obtain the permit is the job offer, my passport, a copy of my marriage certificate and a copy of my current valid residents permit.
6. I am not subject to the stricter requirements for persons seeking employment in SA because of my marriage

It seems there should be no reason why someone would not consider me for the positions I've applied for yet I get no responses. So I can only attribute it to my being an American.

Also, it there a way to apply for permanent residency BEFORE you've been married for 5 years? I've read one forum posting that suggests you can do that immediately and others firmly state it must be after 5 years of marriage.

Any and all feedback is welcome.


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## Moyes (Nov 3, 2011)

*HA Politics*



RSA_Newbie said:


> I have been reading the entries here since signing up for this forum regarding non-South African spouses of SA citizens and getting work permits. I am married and living in Cape Town with my spouse for over four months now and am here on a "relative's permit" that states "to reside with South African spouse". The information regarding all this is very confusing and HA seems to be a very unreliable source. I believe I am caught in the Catch 22 of not being able to get interviewed for jobs because I don't have a work permit and not being able to get a work permit until I can produce a verifiable job offer!!!
> 
> Then reading some of the postings here has be questioning whether or not my residency permit is a true spousal permit that I can add a work endorsement/permit to, though my application included a copy of my unabridged marriage certificate when I received it in Los Angeles before I left the US. We are thinking about making an appointment at our local HA office to speak to someone and get my situation straightened out but again, I question the information I might get from HA.
> 
> ...



Hi, well having been through immigration in the USA, NZ, Brazil and SA. I can honestly say that South African immigration was by far the most frustrating for my wife and I and still is as im not done yet. She is in the same boat as you as she needs to apply for permanent residency in order to work or apply for a work pemit. We are currently in NZ and when we spoke to the South African Embassy here they told us that if we have been married for 5 years then we can apply for permanent residency. So we explained to them our situation that we have been cohabiting for over 5 years and married for 4 years. At the moment she has temporary residency. They said that when we get back to CT next year we can apply for permanent residency as long as we can prove that we were living together for the first year of that 5 year period ie financial statements , lease agreements etc

So yes, from what they told me it seems like you can apply for PR if you have been cohabiting together for over 5 years and/or married for 5 years. If you change jobs, you will have to apply for another work permit. It is a easier process for people on temp residence to get a work permit as all you need is the job offer.

All the best with your application. Cheers


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## RSA_Newbie (Nov 5, 2011)

Yes Moyes it "appears" to be easier for people already with a temporary residence permit but I don't believe employers see it that way. As a spouse I should be just as employable as if I already held permanent residency or already had a work permit however just about everything I apply for stipulates that you must either be a) a SA citizen, b) a permanent resident or c) hold a valid work permit already. They don't seem to understand that they can offer me the job without having to submit proof of advertisement or that they could not find an SA citizen to fill the job. They just need to provide a verifiable offer letter and I must go to HA and acquire the necessary work permit (which must not be declined unless there is a extremely valid reason to do so and must be issued within 30 days or I can begin working while waiting for my permit to be issued....this is what I currently understand from my research and I am consulting an immigration lawyer to that effect as well.)

I will post more as I get answers.


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## CCSA (Oct 24, 2011)

RSA_Newbie said:


> Yes Moyes it "appears" to be easier for people already with a temporary residence permit but I don't believe employers see it that way. As a spouse I should be just as employable as if I already held permanent residency or already had a work permit however just about everything I apply for stipulates that you must either be a) a SA citizen, b) a permanent resident or c) hold a valid work permit already. They don't seem to understand that they can offer me the job without having to submit proof of advertisement or that they could not find an SA citizen to fill the job. They just need to provide a verifiable offer letter and I must go to HA and acquire the necessary work permit (which must not be declined unless there is a extremely valid reason to do so and must be issued within 30 days or I can begin working while waiting for my permit to be issued....this is what I currently understand from my research and I am consulting an immigration lawyer to that effect as well.)
> 
> I will post more as I get answers.


I can completely understand your frustration as I'm in exactly the same boat!

We were told be Home Affairs that I'm not eligible to apply for PR through my husband as we've not been married for 5 years (even though we have been living together for 9 years) but that I could apply for PR through my child who is a South African Citizen.

Regarding the work permit, I was not aware that you can start work should this not be issued by HA within the stipulated 30 days. Where did you get this information from? I know work permits are currently taking several months to be processed, making our situation all the more difficult and frustrating!

Good luck and please keep me posted as you find out more!


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## Saartjie (Mar 1, 2010)

RSA_Newbie said:


> I have been reading the entries here since signing up for this forum regarding non-South African spouses of SA citizens and getting work permits. I am married and living in Cape Town with my spouse for over four months now and am here on a "relative's permit" that states "to reside with South African spouse". The information regarding all this is very confusing and HA seems to be a very unreliable source. I believe I am caught in the Catch 22 of not being able to get interviewed for jobs because I don't have a work permit and not being able to get a work permit until I can produce a verifiable job offer!!!
> 
> Then reading some of the postings here has be questioning whether or not my residency permit is a true spousal permit that I can add a work endorsement/permit to, though my application included a copy of my unabridged marriage certificate when I received it in Los Angeles before I left the US. We are thinking about making an appointment at our local HA office to speak to someone and get my situation straightened out but again, I question the information I might get from HA.
> 
> ...


Hi there, firstly, I totally understand your frustration, I have been going through the same thing since I arrived here in August last year. 

I will try to answer your questions.

Firstly, from what you say regarding your current permit, if it states Relatives Permit and 'to reside with spouse' then unfortunately it is just a Relatives Permit and not a Spousal Permit (I was issued with the same thing even though I specifically applied for a Spousal Permit). This means that your permit cannot be endorsed for work.

You therefore need to make a new application to HA. The application is called 'Application for Change of Conditions on Existing Permit', the form you need is called BI-1740. The Permit you need to change to is a Section 11(6) permit which is the Spousal Permit. Provided that you have a job offer at the time of application, you can also apply for your work endorsement at the same time. All you need to supply in that regard is a written job offer and the employer also needs to sign the application form. If you do not have a job offer you can always apply for the endorsement later although this will add extra time and of course its an additional application at HA which is always extra hassle.

When you are issued with a work endorsement, it is job specific, so it is valid for your current employment but if you change jobs you need a new endorsement for that job. I have never heard that you need to renew the endorsement every year, I have been informed that you only need to renew it if you change jobs.

It is totally illegal to work whilst waiting for the work endorsement. Even if the 30 days have passed it is still illegal to work. It will clearly state so on your stamped receipt that you get at HA when you apply. Saying that, a lot of people are working anyway (like me). I applied for my endorsement in May this year and I am still waiting for it. No company is going to keep a position open for 6 months so one is not left with much choice. I must work and earn money to support our family.

Permanent Residency is only available once you have been married for 5 years. Mere cohabitation is currently not taken into account. I have been together with my husband for 10 years but when we arrived in SA last year we had only been married for 4 years and 8 months and I was not allowed to apply for PR. Now, I have applied as its been over 5 years. Current waiting time for PR is between 12 and 24 months so even if you can apply for PR you must have Temporary Residency whilst waiting for the PR to come through.

Regarding finding a job. It totally depends upon what you do for a living. I found a job very easy and quickly here but I have read from others on this forum that they are finding it difficult. Do not get demoralized because you do not get any responses. It is just like that here. You can send your CV to 20 different places and not even get an email back confirming safe receipt. I used a recruitment website (Best Jobs South Africa) which worked for me. My advise would be to approach companies directly rather than using recruiters if at all possible.

Anyway, I might not have answered all of your questions but hopefully some of them.


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## Whitedesert (Oct 9, 2011)

RSA_Newbie said:


> I have been reading the entries here since signing up for this forum regarding non-South African spouses of SA citizens and getting work permits. I am married and living in Cape Town with my spouse for over four months now and am here on a "relative's permit" that states "to reside with South African spouse". The information regarding all this is very confusing and HA seems to be a very unreliable source. I believe I am caught in the Catch 22 of not being able to get interviewed for jobs because I don't have a work permit and not being able to get a work permit until I can produce a verifiable job offer!!!
> 
> Then reading some of the postings here has be questioning whether or not my residency permit is a true spousal permit that I can add a work endorsement/permit to, though my application included a copy of my unabridged marriage certificate when I received it in Los Angeles before I left the US. We are thinking about making an appointment at our local HA office to speak to someone and get my situation straightened out but again, I question the information I might get from HA.
> 
> ...


My reply is not directed at the legal position you find yourself in, but simply to refer to your current status as a white male, and a foreigner! I am a South African working outside SA because there is simply not enough work for all of us, in a country with a +40% unemployment rate. I think you may be able to finally resolve your residency in SA, but it is going to take much more than this to solve you finding employment! Employers are going to find it difficult to justify employing you, unless you get yourself in the extremely lucky situation where you are the only one qualified to do the job. That I suspect are possibly not going to happen, because in the white male line I can imagine their is a couple of guys who can do it as well, and maybe even better. Even they are only going to get the job if the employer has met his EE quota, and the job has no EE reservation.


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## RSA_Newbie (Nov 5, 2011)

Thank you Whitedesert. I'm sorry you had to leave SA in order to find appropriate work for your skills and yes I know the odds are against me here but I have faith if I am persistent I will find a solution. Despite its problems, I love it here in SA and I don't think I face any greater odds against me here than in the US where unemployment for those out of work for more than a year AND over 40 is just as bad as it is here. I have the advantage that I can work for myself if necessary and am in the process of applying for my business endorsement to do so. All the best to you in Egypt.


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## Whitedesert (Oct 9, 2011)

RSA_Newbie said:


> Thank you Whitedesert. I'm sorry you had to leave SA in order to find appropriate work for your skills and yes I know the odds are against me here but I have faith if I am persistent I will find a solution. Despite its problems, I love it here in SA and I don't think I face any greater odds against me here than in the US where unemployment for those out of work for more than a year AND over 40 is just as bad as it is here. I have the advantage that I can work for myself if necessary and am in the process of applying for my business endorsement to do so. All the best to you in Egypt.


Good luck, I sincerely hope you come right


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## pecan (Dec 8, 2011)

CCSA said:


> I can completely understand your frustration as I'm in exactly the same boat!
> 
> We were told be Home Affairs that I'm not eligible to apply for PR through my husband as we've not been married for 5 years (even though we have been living together for 9 years) but that I could apply for PR through my child who is a South African Citizen.
> 
> ...


My husband and I moved out of South Africa as a result of the South African attitude to work permits. We were married in South Africa but were told he had to have permanent residence before he could get a work permit (unless it could be proved that there was nobody who could do whatever work he applied for), and that he could only get a PR after 5years on a TP. We lived in a rural area and I couldn't afford to support both of us, so we made alternative arrangements.

I sympathise, but can't offer advice, I'm afraid.

Cathy


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## bokbabe (Nov 28, 2010)

pecan said:


> My husband and I moved out of South Africa as a result of the South African attitude to work permits. We were married in South Africa but were told he had to have permanent residence before he could get a work permit (unless it could be proved that there was nobody who could do whatever work he applied for), and that he could only get a PR after 5years on a TP. We lived in a rural area and I couldn't afford to support both of us, so we made alternative arrangements.
> 
> I sympathise, but can't offer advice, I'm afraid.
> 
> Cathy


Hi Cathy

The official guidelines are what you say above, the employer has to prove that they couldn't find a suitable South African for the job, or list the reasons why a foreigner would be better BUT when you actually submit the paperwork at the DHA, you realise that, in reality that is just not the case! 
My hubby and I went armed with a huge list of reasons from his employer why he was the best for the job and copies of the ads they had placed etc. Whilst we were in the queue with people from countries like Zimbabwe etc, I was wondering exactly how much paperwork they had from their employers saying that they were the best man/woman for the job etc... for example could their employers REALLY say that they couldn't find a better local gardener or manual laborer etc (generalisation)....NOPE. Then came our turn and the lady barely looked at the paperwork, just the contract of employment and that's that!

Also, you don't have to have a TP for 5 years to get PR, you just have to be able to prove you've been together for 5 years in order to get PR ie: mortgage statements, lease agreements, copies of joint bank statements or a marriage certificate! You can get a spousal permit once married, if you've not been together 5 years and you can add a work permit as an endorsement to that spousal permit with the letter from the employer (or not, as above). One thing about SA....there are always loopholes and a different story from each home affairs official that you talk to, that's why we have this forum cos forewarned is forearmed!!!! We applied for Hubby's PR in March this year and, it was granted in May, yet the guidelines say it takes 12-18months. We asked them to send it from the UK, here, as we had already moved and, when I was ringing HA to ask about it's arrival, the agents on the phone all told me "no, it couldn't have been granted, it's been too quick and the reasons varied from "he has to have his temporary residence for 5yrs before he can get permanent" (as you mentioned above) to "WHEN did you apply?? MARCH?? No way, try ringing back next year this time and maybe it will be done by then". Each and every time I rang (and it took them 4 months to locate it) I had to patiently explain that I wasn't asking IF it had been granted because I had an email from London saying that it had, I am just looking for the certificate, which was send over in the diplomatic bag in June! Eventually, we collected it on the 31st October and we will be applying for hubby's ID in January...happy days!


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## Saartjie (Mar 1, 2010)

bokbabe said:


> Hi Cathy
> 
> The official guidelines are what you say above, the employer has to prove that they couldn't find a suitable South African for the job, or list the reasons why a foreigner would be better BUT when you actually submit the paperwork at the DHA, you realise that, in reality that is just not the case!
> My hubby and I went armed with a huge list of reasons from his employer why he was the best for the job and copies of the ads they had placed etc. Whilst we were in the queue with people from countries like Zimbabwe etc, I was wondering exactly how much paperwork they had from their employers saying that they were the best man/woman for the job etc... for example could their employers REALLY say that they couldn't find a better local gardener or manual laborer etc (generalisation)....NOPE. Then came our turn and the lady barely looked at the paperwork, just the contract of employment and that's that!
> ...


Wow, I can't believe that the PR came through so quickly (not taking into account the hassle you went through to actually get hold of it). That is amazing. I applied for mine about three weeks ago. Had to travel to Cape Town to do it but it was so worth it. The difference between HA in Joburg and Cape Town was unbelievable! Not sure at all how long it will take to come through but I have decided that I will be pleasantly surprised if I hear anything within 12 months (have heard that it can take up to 24 months). Glad to hear that you've managed to sort it out though. Can't wait myself to get my hands on my first ID book.


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## bokbabe (Nov 28, 2010)

Saartjie said:


> Wow, I can't believe that the PR came through so quickly (not taking into account the hassle you went through to actually get hold of it). That is amazing. I applied for mine about three weeks ago. Had to travel to Cape Town to do it but it was so worth it. The difference between HA in Joburg and Cape Town was unbelievable! Not sure at all how long it will take to come through but I have decided that I will be pleasantly surprised if I hear anything within 12 months (have heard that it can take up to 24 months). Glad to hear that you've managed to sort it out though. Can't wait myself to get my hands on my first ID book.


I think it made all the difference that we applied in London and the fact that we have been married 6 years....so it was a very straight forward application. Hope that your journey to Cape Town will make the difference in the amount of time that you have to wait! I think DH was more freaked out than happy that it came through so quickly! Guess he will be happy when he gets his ID and can start getting things like bank accounts and credit cards easier and maybe even a mortgage... then he will see it as more of a good thing!


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## Saartjie (Mar 1, 2010)

bokbabe said:


> I think it made all the difference that we applied in London and the fact that we have been married 6 years....so it was a very straight forward application. Hope that your journey to Cape Town will make the difference in the amount of time that you have to wait! I think DH was more freaked out than happy that it came through so quickly! Guess he will be happy when he gets his ID and can start getting things like bank accounts and credit cards easier and maybe even a mortgage... then he will see it as more of a good thing!


Well, as experiences up until now has not been good when it comes to HA I don't expect too much to be honest. Still at least the application is in and I have a lawyer dealing with it for me so they can chase it up and I don't have to sit on the phone trying to get hold of non existent people anymore. Will keep you posted if a miracle happens for sure.


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