# Leishmaniasis-natural prevention?



## infomaniac (May 27, 2013)

I've left it a bit late now we are actually here but I'm trying to work out what is best to prevent Leishmaniasis in my two Yorkies. 

I always try to do everything as "naturally" as possible so I'm a bit alarmed about the Scalibor collars/vaccine etc as I've read some nasty stuff about them. Apparently some 
essential oils can be very good in preventing bites but it's a bit of a gamble, and frankly one I'm a bit scared to take. Most advice is along the "ask your vet" type, but vets are bound to advocate chemical/drug type products aren't they?

I would really appreciate some insight into this from those of you who have dogs, and what treatment you use.

Thanks a lot ...and sorry for being a crank!


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## kalohi (May 6, 2012)

infomaniac said:


> I've left it a bit late now we are actually here but I'm trying to work out what is best to prevent Leishmaniasis in my two Yorkies.
> 
> I always try to do everything as "naturally" as possible so I'm a bit alarmed about the Scalibor collars/vaccine etc as I've read some nasty stuff about them. Apparently some
> essential oils can be very good in preventing bites but it's a bit of a gamble, and frankly one I'm a bit scared to take. Most advice is along the "ask your vet" type, but vets are bound to advocate chemical/drug type products aren't they?
> ...


We live in an area with a high incidence of leishmaniasis so I've never hesitated to protect my dog in as many ways as possible, which means lots of chemicals. She gets the jab every year, wears a Scalibor collar from March-November, and gets Advantix Spot-on once a month. This is the preventative treatment recommended by my vet. My dog has never had any adverse reaction to either the Scalibor collar or to Advantix. As for the jab, the day she gets it she's a bit "off", but by the next morning she's back to her old self.

I understand the hesitation to subject our pets to so many chemicals. But IMO the chemical route is the lesser of two evils. I'm not interested in trying out natural preventative methods that aren't vet tested, because if they fail the consequence can be dire. 

But that's me, and my dog, in the area where I live. You'll have to decide for yourself what's best for your dog.


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## davexf (Jan 26, 2009)

Hola 
I live in a leishmaniasis area; many friends have lost their dogs to a horrible disease. The cost of treatment is colossal if the dogs do catch the disease. 

One of my dogs had a rash using the Scalibor collar so I was very glad when the injections came along. I give Advantix every month which helps against ticks (from the many herds of goats) as well. 

Davexf


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## infomaniac (May 27, 2013)

So you use the vaccine plus Advantix Dave? No goats where we are but you never know!


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## davexf (Jan 26, 2009)

Hola 

Advantix is labeled as effective against fleas, ticks, chewing lice, mosquitoes, and biting flies. Around here there are lots of flies, mosquitos and even sand flies - just part of keeping my dogs healthy 

Davexf


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## The Skipper (Nov 26, 2014)

infomaniac said:


> I've left it a bit late now we are actually here but I'm trying to work out what is best to prevent Leishmaniasis in my two Yorkies.
> 
> I always try to do everything as "naturally" as possible so I'm a bit alarmed about the Scalibor collars/vaccine etc as I've read some nasty stuff about them. Apparently some
> essential oils can be very good in preventing bites but it's a bit of a gamble, and frankly one I'm a bit scared to take. Most advice is along the "ask your vet" type, but vets are bound to advocate chemical/drug type products aren't they?
> ...


My vet recommended the leishmaniasis vaccine when it first became available but I decided not to bother but to continue instead to rely upon the Scalibor collar. A year later my dog tested positive for leishmaniasis and it cost me €200 to treat her, but at least the treatment worked and she is now fine. Once a dog has had leishmaniasis it can´t be given the vaccine so we took advice on alternatives to prevent a recurrence. We give her preventive courses of Leisguard (the same medicine that is used to treat leishmaniasis) and she also now wears a Seresta collar from March to November (the high risk period). The Seresta collar, made by Bayer, is fairly new and is much better than Scalibor. My advice regarding natural products: forget them! They just don´t work!


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## jimenato (Nov 21, 2009)

I would use whatever you can and definitely vaccinate. Our three dogs all were while in Spain. 

So-called 'natural' products are largely untested, fanciful and frankly probably useless. 

I've seen two particular 'natural' products I would warn against; amber collars as general insect repellents and, as a cure, not a prevention, bioresonance. 

As far as I am aware Leishmaniasis is incurable.

One more thing to note is that the vaccine can make dogs a bit unwell for a day or two - it did with one of ours. However I would still do it.


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## infomaniac (May 27, 2013)

I've joined a group on Facebook and there are people on there who refuse to use the collars with insecticide, many of them because their dog has had a bad reaction to them. 
One natural collar is the Zotal Parasital which gets good reviews. I am planning to use these in conjunction with a spray containing neem oil. Neem oil is a good alternative and apparently has as good a track record as deet! 
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8245951

It is a huge risk, I appreciate that but I feel like I have to try. My dogs will not be going in heavily wooded areas or anything like that so fingers crossed they will live to tell the tale :fingerscrossed:


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## The Skipper (Nov 26, 2014)

jimenato said:


> I would use whatever you can and definitely vaccinate. Our three dogs all were while in Spain.
> 
> So-called 'natural' products are largely untested, fanciful and frankly probably useless.
> 
> ...


Leishmaniasis is curable if caught in the early stages, thanks to recently developed medicines. Many web sites produced by a Google search say it is incurable but they are out of date. The treatment takes a long time and is expensive but some encouraging results have been reported in recent years. My dog has tested negative for the past two years after treatment and is happy, healthy and very active. A friend whose dog was diagnosed with Leishmaniasis at a more advanced stage has not been so lucky. Although showing no obvious physical signs of Leishmaniasis the dog is no longer anywhere near as active and playful as he was before diagnosis and it therefore looks as though the infection is being managed rather than totally cured.


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## JimmyLocksDad (Nov 2, 2017)

Great thread of info for my friend Larry R most helpful


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## The Skipper (Nov 26, 2014)

infomaniac said:


> I've joined a group on Facebook and there are people on there who refuse to use the collars with insecticide, many of them because their dog has had a bad reaction to them.
> One natural collar is the Zotal Parasital which gets good reviews. I am planning to use these in conjunction with a spray containing neem oil. Neem oil is a good alternative and apparently has as good a track record as deet!
> https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8245951
> 
> It is a huge risk, I appreciate that but I feel like I have to try. My dogs will not be going in heavily wooded areas or anything like that so fingers crossed they will live to tell the tale :fingerscrossed:


The link above goes to a report published in 1993. The same organisation states in a 2011 report: "Neem is widely advertised as a natural alternative to DEET [40], and it has been tested for repellency against range of arthropods of medical importance, with variable results (Table ​(Table1).1). Several field studies from India have shown very high efficacy of Neem-based preparations [41-43], contrasting with findings of intermediate repellency by other researchers [44,45]. However, these contrasting results may be due to differing methodologies, and the solvents used to carry the repellents. The EPA has not approved Neem for use as a topical insect repellent. It has a low dermal toxicity, but can cause skin irritation, such as dermatitis when used undiluted [46]. Due to the paucity of reliable studies, Neem oil is not recommended as an effective repellent for use by travellers to disease endemic areas [32], although it may confer some protection against nuisance biting mosquitoes." 
I have tried dozens of natural insect repellents myself and they have all been a waste of time and money (and I am assuming that if they don´t work for humans they won´t work for dogs).


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## jimenato (Nov 21, 2009)

The Skipper said:


> Leishmaniasis is curable if caught in the early stages, thanks to recently developed medicines. Many web sites produced by a Google search say it is incurable but they are out of date. The treatment takes a long time and is expensive but some encouraging results have been reported in recent years. My dog has tested negative for the past two years after treatment and is happy, healthy and very active. A friend whose dog was diagnosed with Leishmaniasis at a more advanced stage has not been so lucky. Although showing no obvious physical signs of Leishmaniasis the dog is no longer anywhere near as active and playful as he was before diagnosis and it therefore looks as though the infection is being managed rather than totally cured.


That's good - didn't know that. I would still vaccinate.

It really does annoy me that people push quack treatments for this.

One quack practitioner near Estepona pushes Bioresonance therapy for all sorts of things including curing Leish - but also for diagnosing and treating allergies and all sorts of other conditions.

I'm astonished that anyone believes the blurb but they do - including many friends of mine and the leaders of a local dog rescue charity.

The danger is that people will believe it and forego other treatments /preventions.

If they were doing this in the UK I would do something about it.


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## infomaniac (May 27, 2013)

I'm obviously in the minority here but I would always try a natural cure over a chemical one. The chemical collars, vaccines etc are not infallible. I have read a number of stories about dogs having extremely adverse effects with the collars and someone last week told me she nearly lost her dog because of the vaccine.

Natural cures will never be as strong as a good old dose of chemicals which is why I am going to adopt a multi pronged attack ( similar to what I am doing myself as I react very badly to mosquito bites but would never, unless I can help it, use Deet.)

Some people think alternative remedies are rubbish, think organic food is no different to processed and that anything without scientific backing won't work. I am not one of those people! 

I may end up having to use a Scaribor etc but I really hope not :fingerscrossed:


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## davexf (Jan 26, 2009)

infomaniac said:


> I'm obviously in the minority here but I would always try a natural cure over a chemical one. The chemical collars, vaccines etc are not infallible. I have read a number of stories about dogs having extremely adverse effects with the collars and someone last week told me she nearly lost her dog because of the vaccine.
> 
> Natural cures will never be as strong as a good old dose of chemicals which is why I am going to adopt a multi pronged attack ( similar to what I am doing myself as I react very badly to mosquito bites but would never, unless I can help it, use Deet.)
> 
> ...


Hola 

Then one piece of advice:- 
please keep your dogs indoors one hour before dusk until after dark; apparently they are more likely to get bitten at this time 

Davexf


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## Sunny B (Feb 17, 2020)

Hi infomaniac Having recently moved to Spain I've been seraching the internet to find alternative ways to protect my dogs against Leishmanianis and I came across your interesting post. I just wondered if you're still using the Zotal collar and the neem oil and if so how effective have you found them? I am also loathed to vaccinate or use the Scalibor collars so I'd be very interested to hear how you've got on. Thanks in advance. Priscilla


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

infomaniac said:


> Natural cures will never be as strong as a good old dose of chemicals ...





> The principal constituents of neem leaves include protein (7.1%), carbohydrates (22.9%), minerals, calcium, phosphorus, vitamin C, carotene etc. But they also contain glutamic acid, tyrosine, aspartic acid, alanine, praline, glutamine and cystine like amino acids, and several fatty acids (dodecanoic, tetradecanoic, elcosanic, etc.).


What is this if not a "good old dose of chemicals"?


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## 95995 (May 16, 2010)

Alcalaina said:


> What is this if not a "good old dose of chemicals"?





> The principal constituents of neem leaves include protein (7.1%), carbohydrates (22.9%), minerals, calcium, phosphorus, vitamin C, carotene etc. But they also contain glutamic acid, tyrosine, aspartic acid, alanine, praline, glutamine and cystine like amino acids, and several fatty acids (dodecanoic, tetradecanoic, elcosanic, etc.).


It seems to me that at least the vast majority of those can be natural as opposed to chemical and many of them are essential to both human and animal well-being.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

EverHopeful said:


> It seems to me that at least the vast majority of those can be natural as opposed to chemical and many of them are essential to both human and animal well-being.


But what does "natural" mean? Pretty much everything found in the natural world is made up of chemicals. It's become a marketing buzzword to make people think their products are less harmful (even though many so-called "natural" products are produced by pharmaceutical companies). But in fact they can be more harmful, because they are unregulated. And if you try making them yourself, say by extracting oils from plants, you have no control over the quantities of active ingredients and the result could do more harm than good.


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## 95995 (May 16, 2010)

Alcalaina said:


> But what does "natural" mean? Pretty much everything found in the natural world is made up of chemicals. It's become a marketing buzzword to make people think their products are less harmful (even though many so-called "natural" products are produced by pharmaceutical companies). But in fact they can be more harmful, because they are unregulated. And if you try making them yourself, say by extracting oils from plants, you have no control over the quantities of active ingredients and the result could do more harm than good.


Better not eat anything then


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

EverHopeful said:


> Better not eat anything then


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## 95995 (May 16, 2010)

Well, there you go, apart from the fact that it is 75% water and that the figures would be average, clearly you should be extremely careful what you eat in order to get just the right amount of everything that your body needs. Then take into account what a healthy body will produce itself.

I do vaccinate my small dog for the diseases in my area (and we have very dangerous diseases in my area, though not the one that is the topic of this thread), and I do give him anti-flea and tic tablets for the summer month, plus I use worming medication twice a year (sufficient given his diet and that he doesn't roam off leash because he gets distracted and runs out onto roads etc.) - that's definitely more than enough of a chemical cocktail and I would never add to that quite frightening array one of those collars and Advantix. TBH lots of dog deaths here that post mortems have revealed are linked to the collars and Advantix.


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## 95995 (May 16, 2010)

And you know if you use Advantix *according to the instructions*, you have to take extreme care not to get it on your skin (but you are putting it on your pet's skin) and take immediate action if it does come into contact with your skin.


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## jimenato (Nov 21, 2009)

What does 'natural as opposed to chemical' mean?:confused2:


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