# Are these costs realistic at the costa del sol?



## NielsPiller11 (7 mo ago)

Am i forgetting something or are the prices wrong? Thanks in advance!


Rent: Around 800 for a 2 persons place on a nice place (400 each)
Groceries 200
Water, gass, Electricity, taxes? etc. 125
Internet 40
Health care 100
Gym abbo 25
Rest (haircut, minimum phone abbo and drinks ) 60
 -----------------
950
* Road tax 15 (a month) ?


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

Not sure 200 euros a month for 2 in food is realistic. I spend about 70- 100 just on myself a week. You also need to possibly include travel costs no? Petrol?. Basically I would say 1.000 euros a month for 2 people ( who pay rent) is right at the most basic level of living in Spain..Its doable but perhaps not much fun after a while.


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## Barriej (Jul 23, 2012)

NielsPiller11 said:


> Am i forgetting something or are the prices wrong? Thanks in advance!
> 
> 
> Rent: Around 800 for a 2 persons place on a nice place (400 each)
> ...


Road tax lower
I pay €47 for the year on a 2007 1.4l Citroen
You haven't added petrol or insurance to your list but unleaded is around €2.00 a litre 
I pay €311 fully comp on the car (includes roadside and recovery).

Id also say we spend more than €200 a month of food (there are only 2 of us and we eat out a couple of times a week as well).

Otherwise you are close.
Easiest way for me (and others) is just budget what you would spend wherever you are now (if you come from the States it will be cheaper here, if from some backwater asian country a lot more expensive).


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Barriej said:


> *Easiest way for me (and others) is just budget what you would spend wherever you are now (if you come from the States it will be cheaper here, if from some backwater asian country a lot more expensive).*


Best ever advice.

It's still possible to feed two people for 200€ a month, but certainly not much fun!


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## manuka (May 26, 2014)

kaipa said:


> Not sure 200 euros a month for 2 in food is realistic. I spend about 70- 100 just on myself a week. You also need to possibly include travel costs no? Petrol?. Basically I would say 1.000 euros a month for 2 people ( who pay rent) is right at the most basic level of living in Spain..Its doable but perhaps not much fun after a while.


I agree, and we easily spend 100 euros a week on food most weeks


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## BelleBeryl (Apr 14, 2014)

Youtube has some videos on grocery shopping in Spain you could view those. 
See numbeo.com/foodprices/Spain/


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Most internet providers do discounted mobile contracts. We get highspeed internet via cable plus two mobiles with 10Gb data and free calls, for just under €40 a month. So you might save a bit on that.

As for food, it depends entirely on whether you like cooking and can knock up delicious meals from seasonal vegetables and pulses. I spend about €40 a week on food for myself but that includes wine, as it's an essential element of the Mediterranean diet.


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## tebo53 (Sep 18, 2014)

NielsPiller11 said:


> Am i forgetting something or are the prices wrong? Thanks in advance!
> 
> 
> Rent: Around 800 for a 2 persons place on a nice place (400 each)
> ...


Hi,
We as a couple spend €120* a week* on groceries (including wine) and odd meals out.

I think you are also being optimistic with the "Rest" category too, I would double that at least.
I would suggest €1,500 per month is a good figure and that includes rent.

Steve


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## dancingspider (Mar 4, 2018)

kaipa said:


> Not sure 200 euros a month for 2 in food is realistic. I spend about 70- 100 just on myself a week. .


I pay 25 euros to 30 euros a week for food! But then I cook everything from first principles and buy almost no processed food.

I do get tinned tomatoes as I find them better for cooking than fresh tomatoes, sometimes.

Other than that I get tinned tuna and sardines, but strictly no ready meals...

You will be digging your grave if you buy processed meals as they have too much sugar, salt and fat, and I'm not saying you do.


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## dancingspider (Mar 4, 2018)

NielsPiller11 said:


> Am i forgetting something or are the prices wrong? Thanks in advance!
> 
> 
> Rent: Around 800 for a 2 persons place on a nice place (400 each)
> ...


Split food into groceries and create a new category 'socialising'. That can include meals in restaurants, entertainment, taxis, club membership, drinks etc....

My single biggest cost, above all else is 'socialising'!

Not sure if you are into any sports, but that can also be quite expensive....


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## Martin Nash (7 mo ago)

Hi I am considering moving to Valencia in a few years. Unfortunately I am a little confused on what tax I would be paying? I have read on the web that all money that you receive from a state pension and company pension would be all taxed? With my calculations on what I would receive I would be paying around 30% which would be approximately £9000 a year to the tax man? I would be most grateful if someone could enlighten me. Many thank, Martin


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

dancingspider said:


> I pay 25 euros to 30 euros a week for food! But then I cook everything from first principles and buy almost no processed food.
> 
> I do get tinned tomatoes as I find them better for cooking than fresh tomatoes, sometimes.
> 
> ...


24- 30 euros a week , every week? Surely you buy more than just tinned tomatoes and tuna? Salad, fruits, bread, pasta, rice?.What about coffee, milk, juice? Olive oil, flour, salt, butter, spices? Toilet paper, cleaning products, light bulbs, bin bags?.They all must add up average to more than 30 euros?


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

Yes you pay tax on most pensions. I assume you will have about £30,000 and therefore fall into a higher tax band.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

kaipa said:


> Yes you pay tax on most pensions.* I assume you will have about £30,000* and therefore fall into a higher tax band.


That's quite an assumption! 

The OP is budgeting far less than that...


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

xabiaxica said:


> That's quite an assumption!
> 
> The OP is budgeting far less than that...


They said that they thought they would pay £9000 to taxman- at 30% of income that's approx £30,000?


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

kaipa said:


> They said that they thought they would pay £9000 to taxman- at 30% of income that's approx £30,000?


Ahh!

I thought that you were replying to the OP. It seems that your reply is for @Martin Nash

It would help enormously if you were to use the quote facility!


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## dancingspider (Mar 4, 2018)

kaipa said:


> 24- 30 euros a week , every week? Surely you buy more than just tinned tomatoes and tuna? Salad, fruits, bread, pasta, rice?.What about coffee, milk, juice? Olive oil, flour, salt, butter, spices? Toilet paper, cleaning products, light bulbs, bin bags?.They all must add up average to more than 30 euros?


We are discussing food shopping to be clear. That does not extend to bin bags.

I developed a calculator which calculates daily intake of cholesterol, saturated fat and calories based on my daily intake in grams. I simply extended that to include a cost calculation. I set it up when I had lots of time on my hands and did it to closely manage health issues. Simply put it calculated cost of my three meals a day. Suffice to say that I quite accurately calculated what food cost me on a daily basis. Equally, I calculated my weekly spend on food and tracked that systematically for an extended period. I have now dispensed with all that as I simply haven't the time to weight every item of food that goes into everything I eat.

Point is that most people eat far more protein than their bodies require, which can be unhealthy and is certainly expensive.

I am working to a budget so in fact I frequently spend more on a night out than I do on a weekly shop.

I simply have high visibility of my spending on food and am very careful about my diet.

Most people go for processed foods as they don't have time to prepare meals, but manage to waste oodles of time on social media.

I can say that never in my life have I had food delivered to my door by the likes of all these services that have popped up in recent years and that is the way I intend to keep it!


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## AnderF (6 mo ago)

kaipa said:


> Not sure 200 euros a month for 2 in food is realistic. I spend about 70- 100 just on myself a week. You also need to possibly include travel costs no? Petrol?. Basically I would say 1.000 euros a month for 2 people ( who pay rent) is right at the most basic level of living in Spain..Its doable but perhaps not much fun after a while.


plus there's something that gets broken or a bank commision no one ever told you about...


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## number9 (Dec 4, 2021)

No couple is the same as the next couple. With the recent inflation increases here in Spain we've struggled to work within a 27k euro budget and we have no rental to pay. We are now spending closer to 30k pa. net, but we run two cars and have a dog.

We live fairly modestly but spend a fair amount on food and alcohol. We eat out, on average, once a week although in reality this peaks when we have family staying with us and troughs when we don't.

Some things in Spain are cheaper but other things are more expensive. You have to accept the rough with the smooth.


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## *Sunshine* (Mar 13, 2016)

dancingspider said:


> I developed a calculator which calculates daily intake of cholesterol, saturated fat and calories based on my daily intake in grams. I simply extended that to include a cost calculation. I set it up when I had lots of time on my hands and did it to closely manage health issues. Simply put it calculated cost of my three meals a day. Suffice to say that I quite accurately calculated what food cost me on a daily basis. Equally, I calculated my weekly spend on food and tracked that systematically for an extended period.


What about inflation? Have you updated the prices of the foods you eat? Assuming you're eating the same quantities, updating the prices shouldn't be too much work and would give a better baseline of the minimum amount required for food.


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## Melosine (Apr 28, 2013)

number9 said:


> No couple is the same as the next couple. With the recent inflation increases here in Spain we've struggled to work within a 27k euro budget and we have no rental to pay. We are now spending closer to 30k pa. net, but we run two cars and have a dog.
> 
> We live fairly modestly but spend a fair amount on food and alcohol. We eat out, on average, once a week although in reality this peaks when we have family staying with us and troughs when we don't.
> 
> Some things in Spain are cheaper but other things are more expensive. You have to accept the rough with the smooth.


Agree we ALL have different budgets but €27k and struggling !! 
You must live amongst the ferrari owners in Spain where utilities are as expensive as UK 
Live on far less than that and eat out 3/4 times a week and NEVER do menu del dia.
Shop in Mercadona and Carrefore and eat well although avoid buying lamb and beef steak. IMO inferior products that are overly expensive. We also buy alcohol. Wine, beers and spirits but don't imbibe daily.
Have only 1 car but now have 3 cats which cost €5 a day in food. After a lifetime of dogs ( up to 4 at a time) the cost came as a BIG shock 😲 
Have found that will ALL expenditure what one spends in UK = in euros here


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## number9 (Dec 4, 2021)

Melosine said:


> Agree we ALL have different budgets but €27k and struggling !!
> You must live amongst the ferrari owners in Spain where utilities are as expensive as UK
> Live on far less than that and eat out 3/4 times a week and NEVER do menu del dia.
> Shop in Mercadona and Carrefore and eat well although avoid buying lamb and beef steak. IMO inferior products that are overly expensive. We also buy alcohol. Wine, beers and spirits but don't imbibe daily.
> ...


I didn't say we were struggling, what I said was that we were struggling to work within our budget. So we've increased our budget.

Are you part of a couple or single? You haven't said what you spend pa.

To say "ALL expenditure what one spends in UK = in euros here" in our experience simply isn't true. Our car insurance & servicing is more expensive here than in the UK, Salmon & Chicken are more expensive, tax on income is higher than in the UK (even if that income is from a pension). I don't/ can't draw from my pension yet, due to my age. When I do there will be a higher cost to withdraw, tax wise, than if I were only paying UK tax. We also pay in Eur 60 x 2 per month for the convenio especial. In the UK residents are entitled to use the NHS after 3 months residency, whether they worked or not. Here you must pay if not working and below the UK state retirement age.

That said Spain is cheaper than the UK in important areas, for us, such as; cost of housing, council tax, alcohol, eating out & TV package. The sun and beaches are also free, big plus. Vet fees are also far lower.

I'm not trying to put people off, instead just trying to make sure they have their eyes open.


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## tebo53 (Sep 18, 2014)

number9 said:


> I didn't say we were struggling, what I said was that we were struggling to work within our budget. So we've increased our budget.
> 
> Are you part of a couple or single? You haven't said what you spend pa.
> 
> ...


I can't agree with half of your post at all....
I pay less tax here than I did in the UK and in the 8 years we've lived here my wife hasn't paid a penny taxes even though her pension total is not much less than mine.
Groceries shopping such as fresh vegetable and fruit is much cheaper than the UK as is wine and spirits. Eating out is a wonderful experience at half the UK prices.
Oh yes, you say chicken is expensive but here where I live it's always at give away prices.
Can't imagine where you shop !!

Steve


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## number9 (Dec 4, 2021)

tebo53 said:


> I can't agree with half of your post at all....
> I pay less tax here than I did in the UK and in the 8 years we've lived here my wife hasn't paid a penny taxes even though her pension total is not much less than mine.
> Groceries shopping is much cheaper than the UK as is wine and spirits. Eating out is a wonderful experience at half the UK prices.
> Oh yes, you say chicken is expensive but here where I live it's always at give away prices.
> ...


At least half of it is okay then 

Much of the cost of living is around spending habits and not just in the supermarket.

We often wonder how the Spaniards get by given the relatively low income levels, at least in our region.

There's no right or wrong but we don't own a Ferrari and we spend what we spend  that said we don't want for much.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

number9 said:


> We often wonder how the Spaniards get by given the relatively low income levels, at least in our region.


I know a lot of people who live quite well on the non-contributory pension (around €430 a month). Nothing gets wasted - they buy the food they need for the day, or grow it on the family huerto. Unwanted items are passed round among family and neighbours (hence the absence of charity shops). If something breaks down, it gets mended rather than replaced. They use very little electricity (potencia 3,3kW) and use butane for cooking, which is done in one pot on the hob. They take full advantage of the free leisure facilities offered by the Ayuntamiento and the Junta de Andalucia, and there is no problem sitting in a bar for two or three hours with just one drink. But most importantly they own their own homes, usually inherited, so have no rent or mortgage and council tax is minimal.


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

And not every Spanish person has a low income level. Last week we met someone in the street whilst out shopping, who we have known for many years. With a huge smile he told us it was his first day of retirement from his job (he worked as an electrician for Endesa) after 38 years - and without us asking (wouldn't have dreamed of it) he said his pension was €2k per month. With the 2 additional monthly payments, no doubt.


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

As has been said many Spanish are very resourceful. Charity shops are rare as everything is reused or passed on. Families also work as economic units whic helps plus ( as was said above) property remains in families as they are not investments but used by surviving generations. It is very different from uk where consumption and discarding is high and property is seen as an investment.


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## dancingspider (Mar 4, 2018)

kaipa said:


> As has been said many Spanish are very resourceful. Charity shops are rare as everything is reused or passed on. Families also work as economic units whic helps plus ( as was said above) property remains in families as they are not investments but used by surviving generations. It is very different from uk where consumption and discarding is high and property is seen as an investment.


I think you are a bit off the mark here....

It is a cultural norm in most of Europe, expect Spain, to buy and sell second hand goods!

The Spanish are quite snobbish about this....

I will never forget a girl (former girlfriend) from Galicia telling me that she was embarrassed that I was stood outside a second hand shop, looking in the window, in _Santiago_ de Compostela.

I am a former eBay trader and bought and sold almost everything under the rising sun. For me buying and using second hand goods is the norm.

Car boot sales are the norm in the UK and across most of Europe, but try to find one in Spain...

PS: One is hoping that they will elect not a donkey this time to lead the Tories, but a reamainer, buy I can't see it. They are so far deep in the hole they have dug for themselves, that escape seems impossible.

Any Brexiteers in Spain wish to comment?


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## Melosine (Apr 28, 2013)

dancingspider said:


> I think you are a bit off the mark here....
> 
> It is a cultural norm in most of Europe, expect Spain, to buy and sell second hand goods!
> 
> ...


Apart from times are changing. Spain is huge and as in every country people in different areas have vastly different habits and requirements.
My small village, in middle Spain, holds a " RASTA" every week which from small beginnings now covers an enormous area now because of its popularity. 
Sellers are all Spanish and everything from 2nd hand clothes to articles I would bin are for sale. But each to his own .


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Melosine said:


> Apart from times are changing. Spain is huge and as in every country people in different areas have vastly different habits and requirements.
> My small village, in middle Spain, holds a " RASTA" every week which from small beginnings now covers an enormous area now because of its popularity.
> Sellers are all Spanish and everything from 2nd hand clothes to articles I would bin are for sale. But each to his own .


I think you mean a* rastro*


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## Melosine (Apr 28, 2013)

xabiaxica said:


> I think you mean a* rastro*


That's the word ! Thks. Toooooo early in the morning for me ..


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## SeptemberMorn (6 mo ago)

kaipa said:


> Yes you pay tax on most pensions. I assume you will have about £30,000 and therefore fall into a higher tax band.


Hi I am also looking to a move to Spain within a year or less, and equally interested in the tax on a pension. I have already been accessing different sites for info, but would anyone know how the tax banding works? I do believe the taxable allowance is lower than the UK-around 6Keuros before stoppages?-. Also would anyone be able to tell me how the ground rates work out, is it on area or value of property? And any other costs that will come up during the move and settling down period that I should be aware of? I am looking for any pitfalls that some of you may have unfortunatly come across and try to avoid them. Thank you in anticipation of any help and advice. Dave.


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## number9 (Dec 4, 2021)

@SeptemberMorn Much of the answer will depend on; what type of pension you receive, where in Spain you live, how old you are, whether you submit a joint or individual tax submission and if you have any other income.

Whilst I will not make an effort to explain the tax bandings, as I still don't really get how they are applied, I did ask our tax advisor to estimate what I would pay if I drew Eur 20k a year from my UK SIPP. Their estimate, caveated with everything could change, was Eur 2653.49, so just over 13%. This based on an individual assessment not as a couple.

Once 55 I am able to take as much or as little as I want from my SIPP but clearly what I draw will be assessed against how much tax will be due in both the UK and Spain.

My understanding is that at the moment I can take around £17500 from the pension and not attract any UK tax if I use the UFPLS? *Uncrystallised funds pension lump sums* method. First 25% always tax free and the rest using up the UK personal tax allowance. You will likely already have discovered that you won't be able to take the 25% tax free lump sum without having to pay tax in Spain on it.

My wife currently pays herself £8400 pa from her SIPP and this didn't attract any income tax in Spain on our last tax return, modelo 100. Though we submitted it as a joint submission. Our advisor said she wouldn't have paid tax as an individual return either.

We are well below UK SPA and so we don't receive any other income.

I do declare my SIPP as part of the modelo 720 but as I can't access the pension yet no wealth tax is levied.

In summary our tax is zero at the moment but this will increase fairly significantly as I start to drawdown in a couple of years time, especially if I need to withdraw more than 20k euro pa. The only way to get an accurate estimate is to speak with a tax advisor.


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## Barriej (Jul 23, 2012)

number9 said:


> Whilst I will not make an effort to explain the tax bandings, as I still don't really get how they are applied, I did ask our tax advisor to estimate what I would pay if I drew Eur 20k a year from my UK SIPP. Their estimate, caveated with everything could change, was Eur 2653.49, so just over 13%. This based on an individual assessment not as a couple.



Remove the 25% from the pension and liquidate any and all other investments in the Spanish tax year before you move over.
No tax to pay here in Spain as cash savings don't attract any....
Tax year is jan 1st to dec 31st....


I took the 25% out of mine in 2019 (31st Dec actually) and we moved here late 2020 and apart from declaring the amount on the 720 (its was over €50,000) the tax man don't care.
Its allowed me to take less per month from the personal pension and keep below the tax threshold but still have a good regular amount every month. I estimated this will last another three to four years and then I will need to increase the drawdown from the pension until 2029 when I am 67.
I don't pay tax in the Uk as I now have the zero code and only pay here.

Also remember while you wont pay tax on the cash you will on all interest from it.
We put ours in Premium bonds and you must declare any 'winnings' also we got a 'bonus' from Santander.es and that has to be declared as well.

We were told by the accountant who did our first tax return this year that little or no tax is due on income below about €15,000 or so depending if you file as individual or joint.


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