# DIY in Spain. Rules, regulations & costs



## Barry Jones (Aug 29, 2021)

Hi,

My wife and I are hoping to move to Spain in a few years mainly to take advantage of our early retirement options and the fact my wife qualifies for an Irish passport (Having been born in Northern Ireland)

As you do, I have been looking at properties to start to get a feel for what is available, even though most of the ones I've seen will have been long sold by the time we get there!

Here in the UK, we have a largish house and also a few rental houses that I bought some years ago. I've had my own company for over 20 years and my wife has held a senior position at her company for the past 15 years, so finances are not a problem.

One property we looked at was a large, 6 bed villa, pool, jacuzzi, lots of outdoor space etc etc, but it was in need of "restoration"... 

Here in the UK, if I were to buy such a property, I would just go ahead and rip everything out and do the majority of the work myself. I am a time served electrician but very adept at DIY (In the past, I have replaced all of the windows on my rentals, re-plumbed them, tiled, fitted new kitchens and appliances, decorated etc) and as long as there was no building works involved, there was no need to let the authorities know about such things. I am looking to do some work experience with one of my subcontractors, an electrical company that installs solar panels, just so I gain the knowledge to install them when I get to move 

Having watched and researched a little about similar activities in Spain on property you own, there are mentions of licenses to carry out works and you have to inform the authorities even if you are doing mundane things like fitting a new kitchen or re-tiling the bathroom etc.

Does anyone here have any experience of this? I'm not looking to do any work without the proper authorisation and paperwork, but there are stories of people doing work and then having to rip it out because they didn't have the correct licenses or hadn't paid the fees. I'm hoping DIY in Spain, isn't the minefield it is looking like to me at the moment!

Thanks


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

It all depends where you are. Obviously minor renovations to interiors can be done without any formal permission the problem arises with external work , especially constructing or altering buildings. It is not that it cant be done but just the process of obtaining licences and completion certificates can take ages and often requires a bit of local knowledge and contacts. That is where it can be a pain for foreigners.


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## xgarb (May 6, 2011)

You would have to ask the local town hall. They will have their own rules.

Normally it's a tiny % of your projected cost. Mine ignored my costings and put their own estimate and charged based on that.

Some will want to charge for very minor work like replacing tiles.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Yes, the permission terms vary enormously depending where you live. For example, my house is on the main street in a white village and I have to pay €40 for the police to put up no parking signs when the front is being painted. There are similar charges if you use a skip. But no permit is needed for interior work.

if you look on your ayuntamiento website you should be able to find details of local policy and fees.


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

kaipa said:


> It all depends where you are. Obviously minor renovations to interiors can be done without any formal permission the problem arises with external work , especially constructing or altering buildings. It is not that it cant be done but just the process of obtaining licences and completion certificates can take ages and often requires a bit of local knowledge and contacts. That is where it can be a pain for foreigners.


They can but not legally.

Interior work also needs a licence (obra menor or even major) in many areas.


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

You may even find that the authorities knowingly turn a blind eye. It's paperwork and hassle for you but for them too.

We wanted to renovate our apartment which included knocking down an internal brick wall to join two rooms together. We figured that this was not going to be exempt from a minor works licence at least, so we went to the town hall with the builder's quote which showed the works to be done.

We were asked if the wall was load bearing, it wasn't and I knew as such due to my own professional qualifications (although these were unknown to the guys at the town hall!) so we said no. With that they waved us away saying "just get on with it, no need for a licence)...

Now, I'm not entirely convinced that that was the technically correct response, but what are you supposed to do in such a situation?

The only times I have known any "trouble" to arise is when a neighbourhood grudge comes into play and someone reports the person doing the work, then the police are obliged to act on the report. 

Moral of this? Stay on friendly terms with your neighbours!


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## Relyat (Sep 29, 2013)

I live in a small town, surrounded by Spanish neighbours.
I've conducted three partial reformation with the work being carried out by local Spanish tradesmen with me "helping".
I've applied for the necessary licence on each occasion, because it's right to do so in the land where I'm a guest.
On the first job, the builder, who has since become a friend, asked if I had a licence and when I said I had smiled and carried on.
I later asked him about this and he said that many foreigners don't bother but the council building inspector was a ferret (closest translation I could find) and that he spent days walking around listening for the sound of work going on. I have no reason to doubt him.
The Local tip also took my Registration number, no doubt to cross check that I was OK to take rubble there.
It's not a nightmare if you do it right.
"Nothing to hide, nothing to fear".


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

snikpoh said:


> They can but not legally.
> 
> Interior work also needs a licence (obra menor or even major) in many areas.


Not all areas, we've already agreed that. It's not illegal to tile an interior wall without a permiso where I live - I checked!


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## Barry Jones (Aug 29, 2021)

So DIY in the sense we have here in the UK is more frowned upon in Spain, where the preference is to get "local tradesmen" in to do the job then? or am I reading this wrong?

I have no aversion to paying people to do the jobs I can't (or don't want to) do myself, but things like kitchen fitting, electrical, plumbing, decorating, window fitting etc. are all well within my capabilities. I also have no issues to making sure I have the correct permissions and licenses in place to do whatever work is needed


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## tardigrade (May 23, 2021)

Barry Jones said:


> So DIY in the sense we have here in the UK is more frowned upon in Spain, where the preference is to get "local tradesmen" in to do the job then? or am I reading this wrong?
> 
> I have no aversion to paying people to do the jobs I can't (or don't want to) do myself, but things like kitchen fitting, electrical, plumbing, decorating, window fitting etc. are all well within my capabilities. I also have no issues to making sure I have the correct permissions and licenses in place to do whatever work is needed


it is not frowned upon.. there are many, many shops for the do it yourselfer to purchase the materials and tools to do the job(s) it is just some villages, towns or cities also want a piece of the pie/ *cake* for the english people here.


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## tardigrade (May 23, 2021)

Even if you hired a local tradesman/woman to do the work, in certain places you would also have to pay for a license.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Barry Jones said:


> So DIY in the sense we have here in the UK is more frowned upon in Spain, where the preference is to get "local tradesmen" in to do the job then? or am I reading this wrong?
> 
> I have no aversion to paying people to do the jobs I can't (or don't want to) do myself, but things like kitchen fitting, electrical, plumbing, decorating, window fitting etc. are all well within my capabilities. I also have no issues to making sure I have the correct permissions and licenses in place to do whatever work is needed


No, not frowned upon as any trip to BricoDepot or Leroy Merlín will show. But labour costs are much cheaper here (our builder charges €15 ph), and they get trade discount on materials, so there isn’t the same financial incentive to DIY. Also , especially when it comes to old village houses, they know exactly which materials and techniques to use, not always intuitive to someone used to British construction methods.


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

Remeber also that if you do any electrical or gas work you cannot legally use the system until it has been certified by an authorised technician and the "boletín" issued for the modified system.

And standards are different, you won't get a boletín for a rewire if you do it with a UK style ringmain for example.

As you can imagine, sometimes getting the work you have done yourself signed off can cost almost as much as having the authorised person do it in the first place.

The same goes with car DIY, you might be perfectly capable of fitting a tow bar, but unless a qualified mechanic signs off the installation, you won't get the car through the next inspection. 

Hence some DIY stuff is just not worth it unless you know you can get it "approved" for a decent price.


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## Barry Jones (Aug 29, 2021)

As I said tardigrade, I don't have any issues with following the rules regarding licenses or permissions etc, it was just that a few of the answers were mentioning tradespeople and I thought that DIY was harder to license or carry out


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## tardigrade (May 23, 2021)

Barry Jones said:


> As I said tardigrade, I don't have any issues with following the rules regarding licenses or permissions etc, it was just that a few of the answers were mentioning tradespeople and I thought that DIY was harder to license or carry out


I do not know why you directed that to me;. no worries..

As to getting the electric "signed off" a way around that; if you think you are competent to Spanish regs is to have the electricity turned on, in your name at the highest Kw you would need and the existing wiring can handle and then do the rewire if the casa, pisa needs it - room by if need be.


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## Barry Jones (Aug 29, 2021)

tardigrade said:


> I do not know why you directed that to me;. no worries..
> 
> As to getting the electric "signed off" a way around that; if you think you are competent to Spanish regs is to have the electricity turned on, in your name at the highest Kw you would need and the existing wiring can handle and then do the rewire if the casa, pisa needs it - room by if need be.


Just in response to your comment about still needing a license, regarding who had carried out the works... but that aside, thanks for the input. I would obviously need to read up on Spanish wiring regulations etc. but having seen the standards in many of the places I have visited in Spain over the past 40 years or so, the UK is by far a more "electrically safe" place to be, especially new build houses, which are all wired to the latest IEEE regs.... 

If has been mentioned above, that tradesmen cost a lot less than here in the UK, it does make sense to use them rather than paying DIY shop prices and then having to do the works that could end up costing the same as having someone to do it for us while I sit in the sun drinking Malibu & pineapples


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

tardigrade said:


> Even if you hired a local tradesman/woman to do the work, in certain places you would also have to pay for a license.


Yes, that is true. It is the nature of the works (and the policy of each individual Ayuntamiento) which deterimines whether a licence is needed, whether it's a DIY job or a tradesman is involved When we had our apartment renovated in 2917, both our builder and the Community Administrator said we would need a licence. It was easy to get, just filled in the form and attached a copy of the builder's quote detailing the work and paid the fee. In my Ayuntamiento the fee is 5% in total - 3% paid up front with the licence application and 2% after completion of the works. I asked the man at the Urbanismo desk how long it was likely to take and he said 2 weeks more or less, and it was issued in 2.5 weeks which I was pleased because this was in August and things tend to slow down a lot because of staff holidays. The knocking off of all wall and floor tiles and retiling the kitchen and bathrooms had to be included, the electrical and plumbing work involved and installation of new bathroom fixtures had to be included, but fitting of the new kitchen did not. The Ayuntamiento assign a time period for completion of the works and just issue a bill for the 2% balance after that period has elapsed, they don't send anyone to inspect the works. At least that has been my experience with the work we've had done here and also at our old house within the same Ayuntamiento. Someone we know ran into a problem when they applied for a licence for some works, had it approved then changed their minds and didn't get the work done. The bill for the 2% balance still arrived and they had to pay it, because the licence stated that if there was a change of cirumstances the Ayuntamiento had to be informed, and they hadn't done that.


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

Alcalaina said:


> Not all areas, we've already agreed that. It's not illegal to tile an interior wall without a permiso where I live - I checked!


Read my comment - that's why I stated "IN MANY AREAS"


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

Barry Jones said:


> I would obviously need to read up on Spanish wiring regulations etc. but having seen the standards in many of the places I have visited in Spain over the past 40 years or so, the UK is by far a more "electrically safe" place to be, especially new build houses, which are all wired to the latest IEEE regs....


Indeed, just because you think that the UK regs are "better" than the Spanish ones, doesn't mean that you will be able to apply them here. 

Also, just as an aside, if you follow Tardgrade's advice on rewiring after obtaining the boletín for the existing installation you would of course be breaking the law, so that wouldn´t be recommended.


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## Barry Jones (Aug 29, 2021)

Overandout said:


> Indeed, just because you think that the UK regs are "better" than the Spanish ones, doesn't mean that you will be able to apply them here.
> 
> Also, just as an aside, if you follow Tardgrade's advice on rewiring after obtaining the boletín for the existing installation you would of course be breaking the law, so that wouldn´t be recommended.


The phrase was "electrically safer" rather than better.... but to be honest, I think many of the electrically safe inventions have come about to account for shorter training periods for electricians in the UK compared to what they were in the past. 

Much of the stuff we were taught as apprentices back then such as cable sizing, space factoring and load calculations were all done by the sparky on the job. Most of that is now done back in the office by the designers and they just tell the person installing what they need to install!


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

snikpoh said:


> Read my comment - that's why I stated "IN MANY AREAS"


I did read your post. Commenting on the statement "minor renovations to interiors can be done without any formal permission", you said "they can, but not legally". The bit about different areas was in the next sentence. Sorry to be pedantic!


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## xicoalc (Apr 20, 2010)

Overandout said:


> And standards are different, you won't get a boletín for a rewire if you do it with a UK style ringmain for example.


We bought our house in 2020 and it's a finca rústica that was built in the 70s and needed fully redoing. It had one cold water pipe, the most basic of electrical instalations with just a bulb in every room and two of the old style plug sockets in the house. 

So we had to rewire, replumb, replace everything... Floors, ceilings, windows, doors etc. 

The reform was simple. We took the quote to the town hall and paid a tax, a small % of the building work. We removed one wall to take off a bedroom and enlarge living room. Was advised by town hall, builder and an arquitecto that its fine but if we ever want to sell we may have issues if the buyer get a mortgage and the valuation gives different room numbers to the original plans. We chose to go ahead and if we sell we will update the escritura later.

The water was installed without any permissions but the electric needed a boletín to get the potencia put up to what we needed. It was not a problem. The spanish electrician organised that for a fee of about 100 euros and then itvwas registered to the CUPS code so the change if potencia was just a phone call. 

I spoke a lot to the electrician who was well and truly time served and years ago he worked in the UK on building sites. He explained the difference between uk ring mains and the Spanish system and although I'm not an expert, i believe the Spanish system is better and safer. We have in out fuse box 12 switches and so everything runs on independent circuits. All the plugs are wired on different ones, thats to sat, the bedroom plugs are independent each side of bed so if one trips we have the other. I think there are 3 plug circuits. But in kitchen for example, the double sockets run so that each of the two plugs are independent. So if the circuit with the fridge blows up, we just pkug fridge into the next socket. Each air conditioning machine has its own circuit etc. Seems quite well done. Nothing ever trips. 

But as others have said, if you're a uk qualified electrician youll need to do it to Spanish standards to get the boletín.


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## Barry Jones (Aug 29, 2021)

xicoalc said:


> We bought our house in 2020 and it's a finca rústica that was built in the 70s and needed fully redoing. It had one cold water pipe, the most basic of electrical instalations with just a bulb in every room and two of the old style plug sockets in the house.
> 
> So we had to rewire, replumb, replace everything... Floors, ceilings, windows, doors etc.
> 
> ...


I've read up a bit on Spanish regulations and these days they are pretty much in line with the likes of Germany, but in the past that wasn't the case.

For example, here in the UK, most new build houses will be supplied with at least an 80 or 100amp feed, whereas many older Spanish property owners or builders could specify the size of supply they wanted as it was more expensive, the larger supply you chose.

A typical socket circuit here can carry loads up to 32A as it is wired in a ring. Many European countries wire in radial circuits, usually limited to about 20A, so the potential for having loads of kitchen appliances, electric cooker, dishwasher and tumble dryer all going at once is quite possible in the UK (Just ask my wife!!)

I guess when I do eventually sort out a property, notice will need to be given to get a good ampage supply and a large capacity distribution board.

I installed a larger board in my last house when we completely rewired it, as it suffered from bad 1970's electrics with upstairs ring main feeding downstairs sockets etc. So I did pretty much what you appear to have in your place. Each room had its own socket circuit, lighting was split with only a few rooms on each circuit. The kitchen was separate, so I suppose I'm half way there with my thinking!!

(80 Amps is about 18kW)


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

Don't forget that in Spain the standing charges for electricity depend on how high your "potencia" is, ie the maximum amount of power you can draw at any one time. This does limit how many appliances you can use at once, but if your potencia is very high you will be spending a lot on electricity bills each month before you use a single kwh.

That is still the case today, it was not just in older properties you could choose the size of supply required. In fact you HAVE to specify how many kw of potencia you want.


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

Deleted


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## Barry Jones (Aug 29, 2021)

Lynn R said:


> Don't forget that in Spain the standing charges for electricity depend on how high your "potencia" is, ie the maximum amount of power you can draw at any one time. This does limit how many appliances you can use at once, but if your potencia is very high you will be spending a lot on electricity bills each month before you use a single kwh.
> 
> That is still the case today, it was not just in older properties you could choose the size of supply required. In fact you HAVE to specify how many kw of potencia you want.


Lynn

Do you happen to know the rough cost of potencia for say 18KwH?

This is our bill for about 6 months here so total is about £1500 a year including the standing charges


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

Barry Jones said:


> Lynn
> 
> Do you happen to know the rough cost of potencia for say 18KwH?


The charges vary (although they won't be radically different) between suppliers, and even with the same supplier they can vary between the different tariffs on offer. This link gives details of the charges with Endesa, one of the largest suppliers, just for information but they are quoted per day so you will have some maths to do to work them out per month, sorry! 






Potencia contratada con Endesa: precio del kW y cómo modificarla


Cómo cambiar tu potencia contratada con Endesa: requisitos, gestiones y teléfono. Calcula la potencia facturada: tramos y precio del kW.




tarifasgasluz.com





I certainly don't know anybody who has a potencia of 18kw. Ours in an all electric property is 5.75kw. I have a vague recollection of having read that if a potencia above a certain level is required then a 3-phase supply must be fitted, but that may be wrong.

The potencia charges aren't per kwh. You pay per kw specified for the potencia, and then per kwh for the electricity actually consumed.


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

This says the maximum potencia you can have in a home is between 10 and 15kw.









¿Qué potencia de luz tengo que contratar?


Nuestra factura de la luz está compuesta por la potencia de luz y el consumo, por lo que conocer qué potencia de luz es la apropiada para nosotros, nos ayudará a ajustar nuestra factura lo máximo posible. Para saber qué potencia de luz debemos contratar hay que tener en cuenta diversos factores.




www.rankia.com




.


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## xicoalc (Apr 20, 2010)

I also have 5.75

18 is a lot. And anything over 10 is charged at much higher rates.


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## xicoalc (Apr 20, 2010)

This is what I pay for 5.75kwh

Ignore the usage. Its 9c not whats shown. They made a mistake after some changes but later resolved it again.


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## Barry Jones (Aug 29, 2021)

so the KwH usage is cheaper in Spain as is the standing charge by the looks of things

I am hoping to find a property with some solar panels fitted or would look to install some so hopefully even cheaper to run my pool


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## xicoalc (Apr 20, 2010)

Barry Jones said:


> so the KwH usage is cheaper in Spain as is the standing charge by the looks of things
> 
> I am hoping to find a property with some solar panels fitted or would look to install some so hopefully even cheaper to run my pool


But thats on tarifas less than 10kwh

If you want more you'll pay a lot more


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

Barry Jones said:


> so the KwH usage is cheaper in Spain as is the standing charge by the looks of things
> 
> I am hoping to find a property with some solar panels fitted or would look to install some so hopefully even cheaper to run my pool


My potencia charges for 5.75kw for the 2 months of June and July 2021 (after the new tariffs came into force at the beginning of June) was €38.58 - a little bit lower than before, for May it was €20.56.

But from the bill you posted, your usage is a great deal higher than mine - I used around the same number of kwh in a month that you used in 7 days in April 2021.

Don't forget there is an additional electricity tax of 5.11% on consumption in Spain (although the Government has just reduced this to 0.5% for a temporary period). Normally IVA on electricity bills in Spain is 21% compared to 5% in the UK, but again this has been reduced temporarily to 10% until the end of this year.

As Xicoalc says potencia charges above 10kw are much higher but I don't know by how much.


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

I have seen information posted elsewhere (can't give you a link as it's against forum rules) from someone who has a 14kw potencia and says his annual bills are around €2,500 in total.


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## Barry Jones (Aug 29, 2021)

Lynn R said:


> My potencia charges for 5.75kw for the 2 months of June and July 2021 (after the new tariffs came into force at the beginning of June) was €38.58 - a little bit lower than before, for May it was €20.56.
> 
> But from the bill you posted, your usage is a great deal higher than mine - I used around the same number of kwh in a month that you used in 7 days in April 2021.
> 
> ...


Yes, we cook with electric here and I have a 20 year old son who is a games programmer and works from home and runs a PC that could power NASA that is rarely turned off. plus my wife has worked from home since last March, so bills are a bit higher... I had a figure in mind of about 2,000 euros a year if we got somewhere with a pool and air-con so probably in the ballpark to some extent

Thanks to all for your helpful replies


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

Barry Jones said:


> Yes, we cook with electric here and I have a 20 year old son who is a games programmer and works from home and runs a PC that could power NASA that is rarely turned off. plus my wife has worked from home since last March, so bills are a bit higher... I had a figure in mind of about 2,000 euros a year if we got somewhere with a pool and air-con so probably in the ballpark to some extent
> 
> Thanks to all for your helpful replies


We cook with electric too, and cook two separate main meals each day as my husband is vegetarian and I'm not so we don't eat the same things. As we're retired we're at home more during the day than those who work. My electricity bills for a full year are around €700-750, we have aircon which we use for heating in the winter (included in that figure) but no pool.

Usually we see people on the forum complaining that electricity is much more expensive in Spain than it is in the UK. I have never found that myself as I am no longer paying sizeable gas bills for heating, water heating and cooking on top of the electricity bills. The last year we lived in North West England (2006) we had to have our central heating on in August, which has certainly never happened here!


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

Barry Jones said:


> Yes, we cook with electric here and I have a 20 year old son who is a games programmer and works from home and runs a PC that could power NASA that is rarely turned off. plus my wife has worked from home since last March, so bills are a bit higher... I had a figure in mind of about 2,000 euros a year if we got somewhere with a pool and air-con so probably in the ballpark to some extent
> 
> Thanks to all for your helpful replies


We have 5.75kw. We are a family of 5 ( 3 offspring are early 20's). My eldest is into networking and the likes - he has two powerful servers on all the time so that he can play games or watch films from anywhere in the world.

We also have two apartments in the underbuild which we rent out for a couple of months in the summer.

We also have everything electric (pool, a/c, hob, water, oven, 3 freezers etc.)

Our bills used to be under 200€ per month but are now over that figure due to the new rates


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## Barry Jones (Aug 29, 2021)

snikpoh said:


> We have 5.75kw. We are a family of 5 ( 3 offspring are early 20's). My eldest is into networking and the likes - he has two powerful servers on all the time so that he can play games or watch films from anywhere in the world.
> 
> We also have two apartments in the underbuild which we rent out for a couple of months in the summer.
> 
> ...


Similar usage to us here then... 

thanks for the insight, sounds very much how we are hoping to be... I love the underbuilds in Spanish houses, a few I've looked at to get a taster could house umpteen cars and pool tables


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## Barry Jones (Aug 29, 2021)

snikpoh said:


> We also have everything electric (pool, a/c, hob, water, oven, 3 freezers etc.)
> 
> Our bills used to be under 200€ per month but are now over that figure due to the new rates


just as a side question, what does it cost yearly to run the pool? I'm assuming you have someone coming in to service etc. or can that be done DIY?

It is a must have for us, I just need to learn to swim properly though


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

Barry Jones said:


> just as a side question, what does it cost yearly to run the pool? I'm assuming you have someone coming in to service etc. or can that be done DIY?
> 
> It is a must have for us, I just need to learn to swim properly though


I do my own pool plus several others where the owners are either not here or are too elderly.

It is extremely simple to do your self with a little know-how.

In terms of cost, I would say it really doesn't cost that much - you can calculate the extra power usage (we have our pump on just 3 hours per day during the season and then not at all in the off season). 
Chemicals are quite cheap too - liquid chlorine (we buy from local co-op in 15l tubs at a cost of about 12€ lasting 4-6 weeks), salfumant (this is hydrochloric acid to lower the pool pH an comes from any supermarket costing 1,79€ for 1.5 litres. Perhaps 4l per month). Then you have pool tablets (we buy 4in 1's from out local supermarket at about 20€ for 5kg. Thee last a couple of months)

Everyone will have their own views, but this works for us.


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