# Charging Employees all their mistakes?



## Hmorrar (Oct 31, 2010)

Hey guys,

I was wondering today whether it's legal or if there are any rules for companies that frame how the company can charge the employees for their mistakes that causes the company to lose money in someway.

My company is in the marble, granite, and natural stone business. and my colleagues, especially the draftsman, is being charged over and over for every single mistake he does, whether its major and obvious, or due to misunderstanding. He's being charged 100% of company's selling value for whatever the mistake is!! not even the cost. 

I personally believe it's unfair. or at least needs to be applied in some other way.

Any thoughts on this matter?


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## dizzyizzy (Mar 30, 2008)

That's pretty bad. What does his contract say?? If is on his contract, they may get away with it. Otherwise report to MOL


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## Elphaba (Jan 24, 2008)

The UAE Labour Law is not 100% clear on this but does permit employers to levy a fine on an employee. There is a limit of the amount a person can be fines and rules for formal documentation. Any fines have to be spent of the social welfare of employees.

It sounds as if this employer is bending the law for his own benefit and that the fines are not commensurate. 

Let me know if you want any more info on this issue. (I also write on such matters for a newspaper here).

-


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## Hmorrar (Oct 31, 2010)

Elphaba said:


> Any fines have to be spent of the social welfare of employees.
> -


Lol, i'm pretty sure it wont be spent on the welfare of employees since the salaries of december haven't been paid yet not to mention no health insurance 

Well, i haven't looked at his contract, but i'm pretty sure purchasing isn't his responsibility as a draftsman, he's just being asked to do it because we are understaffed.
In our field variations from the supplier and client of what they provide, or ask for is just very often. and if it was in the company's benefit the employee doesn't get any recognition, otherwise he's getting all the punching :boxing:

That's why i was asking if anywhere in the law this matter is mentioned.


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## Elphaba (Jan 24, 2008)

Hmorrar said:


> Lol, i'm pretty sure it wont be spent on the welfare of employees since the salaries of december haven't been paid yet not to mention no health insurance
> 
> Well, i haven't looked at his contract, but i'm pretty sure purchasing isn't his responsibility as a draftsman, he's just being asked to do it because we are understaffed.
> In our field variations from the supplier and client of what they provide, or ask for is just very often. and if it was in the company's benefit the employee doesn't get any recognition, otherwise he's getting all the punching :boxing:
> ...


As I said above, it is. BUT there are strict limits as to what can be deducted in respect of his income.

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## Hmorrar (Oct 31, 2010)

Elphaba said:


> As I said above, it is. BUT there are strict limits as to what can be deducted in respect of his income.
> 
> -


Can i get an elaboration on what are the limits please?


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## Elphaba (Jan 24, 2008)

Hmorrar said:


> Can i get an elaboration on what are the limits please?


The fine can be a fixed sum of money or an amount equivalent to the employee’s wage for a certain period. A fine for one violation must not exceed five day’s wages, and in any one month total fines can not exceed an amount equivalent to five day’s wages.

It may be legal but it's still a shabby practice in most cases. 

-


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## Hmorrar (Oct 31, 2010)

Elphaba said:


> The fine can be a fixed sum of money or an amount equivalent to the employee’s wage for a certain period. A fine for one violation must not exceed five day’s wages, and in any one month total fines can not exceed an amount equivalent to five day’s wages.
> 
> It may be legal but it's still a shabby practice in most cases.
> 
> -


I'm sure if this was the case, he would be dancing like he won the lottery. As an example, today he was informed that he will be charged ~15k AED for 1 mistake that the client wasn't clear in his request and asked him to take a decision for him.
This incident was the reason i posted in the 1st place.

Keep in mind that 15k AED is a bit more than 3 times his salary


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## Elphaba (Jan 24, 2008)

Hmorrar said:


> I'm sure if this was the case, he would be dancing like he won the lottery. As an example, today he was informed that he will be charged ~15k AED for 1 mistake that the client wasn't clear in his request and asked him to take a decision for him.
> This incident was the reason i posted in the 1st place.
> 
> Keep in mind that 15k AED is a bit more than 3 times his salary


That is outrageous and illegal. 

He should file a case at the Ministry of Labour. He needs evidence and documentation and it may take a while, but it looks like a strong case to me. Assuming his case is upheld (which I am sure it wil be) he won't get a ban on moving jobs.

Let em know if I can be of any help. I'd love to know how the situations ends too.

-


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## Lita_Rulez (Nov 4, 2010)

Elphaba said:


> The fine can be a fixed sum of money or an amount equivalent to the employee’s wage for a certain period. A fine for one violation must not exceed five day’s wages, and in any one month total fines can not exceed an amount equivalent to five day’s wages.
> 
> It may be legal but it's still a shabby practice in most cases.
> 
> -


I also do believe that a fine may not be applied for a first offense.

There needs to be proper warnings in place before a fine can be levied (can't remember, but I believe you need 2 warnings before a fine becomes legal).


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## Sunset (Jan 24, 2011)

Sad situation. 

Does the employer give bonuses on jobs completed where he makes a profit??? Probably not.


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## Hmorrar (Oct 31, 2010)

Sunset said:


> Sad situation.
> 
> Does the employer give bonuses on jobs completed where he makes a profit??? Probably not.


you're most definitely right. I'm supposed to be a sales executive (supposed to be because i'm checking inventory, made tools issuance forms, logs, company profile, etc...) and i basically don't get anything on anything even my commissions  

It's a mess here, my mistake is that when i signed the contract and was interviewed back in Jordan, so i didn't have the chance to see how things are in reality.

:focus: But anyways, I'll have to inform my colleague that he's got rights and he can file a complaint! i bet that will bring some light back to his life :clap2:


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## Sunset (Jan 24, 2011)

Hmorrar said:


> It's a mess here, my mistake is that when i signed the contract and was interviewed back in Jordan, so i didn't have the chance to see how things are in reality.


That applies to probably everyone who gets here!! Live and learn as they say....

I do hope your colleague can get some relief from the MOL. It is horrible how people are taken advantage here (another lesson you learn when you get here!)


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## Fatenhappy (Jun 23, 2009)

Hmorrar said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> I was wondering today whether it's legal or if there are any rules for companies that frame how the company can charge the employees for their mistakes that causes the company to lose money in someway.
> 
> ...


Mate I definitely don't agree with unfair situations ...... 

To the extreme recently with regards my mother-in-laws estate the lawyer handling the whole thing had the audacity to charge an extra 20% on his already bull sh*t fee for_ "extra care and attention"_ .... hello what the F*** do you think you are being paid for!

However, having said that, its way beyond time that everyone here started standing up and having the balls to say .. _"no it was me" _and paying more care and attention ......_ " I have made a mistake"_ instead of just ducking and weaving all the time and being full of excuses .....

I do like one of the latest western sayings that simply put says_ "man up"_ .... I realy think that overall and most of the time it's definitely appropriate. ....... :clap2:


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## Hmorrar (Oct 31, 2010)

Now this reaction was a surprise... I've informed him that this it is illegal to be charged this much and that the MOL will surely help and so on. He said "it's ok, i can repay that in a couple of months" and that he doesn't want to do such thing!! i asked him why is that? he just didn't want to say why and limited his answer to "no no i will not go".

I felt that he is afraid!! I guess this is how companies get their strength and nerve to act the way they do!! I was really disappointed ;(


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## dizzyizzy (Mar 30, 2008)

Hmorrar said:


> Now this reaction was a surprise... I've informed him that this it is illegal to be charged this much and that the MOL will surely help and so on. He said "it's ok, i can repay that in a couple of months" and that he doesn't want to do such thing!! i asked him why is that? he just didn't want to say why and limited his answer to "no no i will not go".
> 
> I felt that he is afraid!! I guess this is how companies get their strength and nerve to act the way they do!! I was really disappointed ;(


That is so sad but is exactly the reason why this situation keeps perpetuating itself, because those unethical companies know that in most cases employees are too afraid to act and will prefer to keep taking the abuse rather than standing up at risk of losing their jobs


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## Jynxgirl (Nov 27, 2009)

So sad. Someone needs to be a voice for all those that are made to work in fear of being fired if they are to stand up for themselves....


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## Tropicana (Apr 29, 2010)

Jynxgirl said:


> So sad. Someone needs to be a voice for all those that are made to work in fear of being fired if they are to stand up for themselves....



You call them unionms elsewhere 

Anyways the way it is in the Middle East, even if some employers told their employees they would never be paid again, a handful of employees would still remain and work for free, hoping their employer will change his tone, that is how desperate some people unfortunately are


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## HamishUK (Oct 20, 2009)

It's really bad. I was at the Harvester in Crowne Plaza SZR with my friend. He was there the night before and they undercharged him and a big group of friends for a meal and drinks by 500dhs.
The next night he came in and recognized him and said, "we undercharged you by 500dhs, you need to pay us the rest". Of course he said "Your mistake, your problem, I'm not paying".
Next thing the waitress came over really upset and said that if we didn't pay they'd deduct it from her wages. Bear in mind she earns 1500dhs a month, so she's losing 30% of her salary from an innocent mistake.
In the end I told him to get her to meet him outside of work and give her the money so that she didn't lose out and they didn't get the money.

what a joke.


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## Tropicana (Apr 29, 2010)

They apparently strip search employees at petrol stations, even females, whenever there is a suspicion of a theft. Also managers confiscate the tips from the petrol guys so they can someday, upgrade their Fortuner to a Prado


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## VADXB (Jun 4, 2009)

Hmorrar said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> I was wondering today whether it's legal or if there are any rules for companies that frame how the company can charge the employees for their mistakes that causes the company to lose money in someway.
> 
> ...


I dont think the company is justified in doing this. Generally, these things are governed by your contract but even then charging something like 15k which is 3 times his salary is outrageous!

Elphaba, you may be able to shed some light here. I was always under the impression that unless there is a case of actual fraud, wilful mis conduct, negligence (or gross negligence) employers cannot fine a employee?


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