# Moving soon to Costa del Sol - but where?



## Chap (Nov 21, 2010)

Hi
after months of investigation and visits we have finally decided on the South over the Costa Blanca to relocate. We are coming over in Feb and April to view a number of villas but I must admit I am really unsure where to lay down our new routes. I spent a year in Benalmadina in the 90's so I know that area quite well, we have holidayed many times in the region since but I am very aware that there are so many communities on the Costa del sol that I dont know of yet! This is also not a holiday I am planning, but a whole new life.
My wife and I will be bringing over a 12 year old boy, so at that age we are only considering International schools so school location is also a consideration. we are not bothered about being close to the beach but we are quite a social couple and would like to be in an area with a community centre with a few bars and restaurants. We also have to be in an area that is mainly residential and not just holiday homes so that hopefully there will be other children around for my son. Areas we are looking at so far include Calahonda, Elviria, El Rosario, La Cala and more inland towards Benhavis & Alhourin. Any advice about towns will be really appreciated!


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## lynn (Sep 25, 2008)

Chap said:


> Hi
> after months of investigation and visits we have finally decided on the South over the Costa Blanca to relocate. We are coming over in Feb and April to view a number of villas but I must admit I am really unsure where to lay down our new routes. I spent a year in Benalmadina in the 90's so I know that area quite well, we have holidayed many times in the region since but I am very aware that there are so many communities on the Costa del sol that I dont know of yet! This is also not a holiday I am planning, but a whole new life.
> My wife and I will be bringing over a 12 year old boy, so at that age we are only considering International schools so school location is also a consideration. we are not bothered about being close to the beach but we are quite a social couple and would like to be in an area with a community centre with a few bars and restaurants. We also have to be in an area that is mainly residential and not just holiday homes so that hopefully there will be other children around for my son. Areas we are looking at so far include Calahonda, Elviria, El Rosario, La Cala and more inland towards Benhavis & Alhourin. Any advice about towns will be really appreciated!


My advice would be to look at all the International schools first, as this will undoubtedly influence where you choose to live. There is a fair amount of commuting to schools, but all of us that live in this area would I'm sure agree that it really helps to be within striking distance of the school. I'm sure you have probably already got a list of schools already, but I'll mention the National Association of British Schools in Spain (NABSS) as a good point to start your research. There are many to choose from in the Costa del Sol, and all have a different feel and flavour (and price!). Good luck with the move!


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## Chap (Nov 21, 2010)

lynn said:


> My advice would be to look at all the International schools first, as this will undoubtedly influence where you choose to live. There is a fair amount of commuting to schools, but all of us that live in this area would I'm sure agree that it really helps to be within striking distance of the school. I'm sure you have probably already got a list of schools already, but I'll mention the National Association of British Schools in Spain (NABSS) as a good point to start your research. There are many to choose from in the Costa del Sol, and all have a different feel and flavour (and price!). Good luck with the move!


Hi Lynn thanks for the advice. I am sure you are right about starting with the school first. I have looked as close at them as I can without actually visiting any, and to be honest I dont seem to have found anything really bad about any ( we are prepared for costs!). I am very clear that our son Alfie is the priority, and of course it is a big upheaval for him, we already have an older son who will be at Uni so we have gone through those early teen years before! Our ideal location would be somewhere with lots of children around, so we can get him out of his bedroom and outside with friends in the fresh air!


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Chap said:


> Our ideal location would be somewhere with lots of children around, so we can get him out of his bedroom and outside with friends in the fresh air!



Thats a familiar tune!! That was partly our reason for moving here. Two kids with PS3 etc in their rooms. Mind you, nowt much has changed. Its too hot to go out in the summer, they soon got bored with the pool, the beaches, the "outside" So they now scuttle off to their rooms with friends!

Personally I think moving to this area - mijas, benalmadena, fuengirola are all good bets! Near to a few good international schools, near to a good airport, near to the countryside and towns. Theres a good bus and train service that is safe and cheap. Of course I would recommend it cos I live here. But we have only just moved to this area. We were up in Alhaurin De La Torre before (very spanish, very modern and clean). Its sister town Alhaurin El Grande is close by, its very British, has british bars, retaurants and all the "fun" that goes with them, but its not near an international school. The one my kids went to over that way is now turning into a Spanish school I believe is trying to???! Its not a school I'd recommend, if nothing else its a long way from anywhere and involves alot of driving.



Jo xxxx


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

I met an Englishwoman yesterday who was obviously very well-off and who has lived in Spain for almost ten years. Her children had attended prep school in the UK before relocating and had been privately and expensively educated in Spain, in the Marbella area..
She was scathing in her views on most private schools in Spain. She complained of poorly or even unqualified teachers, schools where no criminal record checks were made on prospective employees, headteachers whose main concerns were raking in as much as possible in fees and generally low standards of attainment. She even alleged that she had been instrumental in getting one school closed down.
I didn't ask her to name names but when we meet again I will do. I have a feeling however from my own experience of UK private (not public) schools that this could be the case. A teacher we 'let go' for incompetence immediately was hired at a local independent school.
I also wonder how scrupulous the hiring procedures are for such schools here. In order to attain Qualified Teacher Status in the UK one must have either a B.Ed or other degree plus PGCE. I was pleased to hear Michael Gove announce that graduates with poor degrees would no longer be admitted to teacher training courses.
Is there any institution which oversees and maintains quality control of private schools here in Spain, I wonder?


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## lynn (Sep 25, 2008)

mrypg9 said:


> I met an Englishwoman yesterday who was obviously very well-off and who has lived in Spain for almost ten years. Her children had attended prep school in the UK before relocating and had been privately and expensively educated in Spain, in the Marbella area..
> She was scathing in her views on most private schools in Spain. She complained of poorly or even unqualified teachers, schools where no criminal record checks were made on prospective employees, headteachers whose main concerns were raking in as much as possible in fees and generally low standards of attainment. She even alleged that she had been instrumental in getting one school closed down.
> I didn't ask her to name names but when we meet again I will do. I have a feeling however from my own experience of UK private (not public) schools that this could be the case. A teacher we 'let go' for incompetence immediately was hired at a local independent school.
> I also wonder how scrupulous the hiring procedures are for such schools here. In order to attain Qualified Teacher Status in the UK one must have either a B.Ed or other degree plus PGCE. I was pleased to hear Michael Gove announce that graduates with poor degrees would no longer be admitted to teacher training courses.
> Is there any institution which oversees and maintains quality control of private schools here in Spain, I wonder?


Yes, NABSS.

There are good international schools here on the Costa del Sol. My children attend one of them. I would wind your neck in a bit before being so deflamatory Mary.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

As far as I'm concerned, if a school wasnt affiliated to NABSS, ten I wouldnt touch it. My children were at a previous school who "claimed" they were members, however, NABSS said not and explained that because that particular school didnt use qualified teachers, or have the correct infrastructure or curriculum they had been voted out!

Welcome to Nabss | Nabss

Jo xxx


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

lynn said:


> Yes, NABSS.
> 
> There are good international schools here on the Costa del Sol. My children attend one of them. I would wind your neck in a bit before being so deflamatory Mary.


I didn't say there weren't. But I'm equally sure there are some very poor ones. So there's nothing 'deflamatory' -whatever that means in- a) reporting a conversation, the veracity of which I think I made clear I was unsure of and b) asking for information in which I'm very interested, having been involved in running schools in the UK.
I also seem to remember posts from parents complaining about some private schools - even from some who have changed schools because of concerns.
That conversation yesterday brought it all back.
So...are you denying the existence of poor quality schools here? Was that woman being economical avec la verite? Although I can't imagine what reason she had for making up the story.
So....maybe you should cool yourself down, Lynn...


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

jojo said:


> As far as I'm concerned, if a school wasnt affiliated to NABSS, ten I wouldnt touch it. My children were at a previous school who "claimed" they were members, however, NABSS said not and explained that because that particular school didnt use qualified teachers, or have the correct infrastructure or curriculum they had been voted out!
> 
> Welcome to Nabss | Nabss
> 
> Jo xxx




Thankyou for answering my question, Jo. The link is interesting.
Hopefully such schools as you describe aren't that common here.


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## lynn (Sep 25, 2008)

mrypg9 said:


> I didn't say there weren't. But I'm equally sure there are some very poor ones. So there's nothing 'deflamatory' -whatever that means in- a) reporting a conversation, the veracity of which I think I made clear I was unsure of and b) asking for information in which I'm very interested, having been involved in running schools in the UK.
> I also seem to remember posts from parents complaining about some private schools - even from some who have changed schools because of concerns.
> That conversation yesterday brought it all back.
> So...are you denying the existence of poor quality schools here? Was that woman being economical avec la verite? Although I can't imagine what reason she had for making up the story.
> So....maybe you should cool yourself down, Lynn...


You asked whether there was any organisation overseeing the British Schools in Spain, and I answered NABSS. 
The OP has the opportunity to PM me should he wish to ask any further information about my personal experience of a particular school. I don't feel it is helpful or necessary to post second hand tittle tattle.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

lynn said:


> You asked whether there was any organisation overseeing the British Schools in Spain, and I answered NABSS.
> The OP has the opportunity to PM me should he wish to ask any further information about my personal experience of a particular school. I don't feel it is helpful or necessary to post second hand tittle tattle.


Chill!!! In my infinite wisdom, I think the school your kids attend is the best in the area, but you know I think that!! The school mine go to is also good and a very close second to yours, but there were reasons (exam boards) that I was governed by when making my choice!! There are some others, that I'm not so keen on and I guess in the end its all down to personal choice and whether they're NABSS approved or not. When looking at NABSS schools, my first "port of call" is the comings and goings when the schools start and finish. I like to see how the kids behave as they go in and out, are they an unruly mob, shouting, aggressive, unkempt, swearing, kicking, grumpy? or are they happy, polite, well behaved, friendly??? What are their parents like?? If all seems good, I then go in and see the headmistress, have the guided tour and hopefully see some classes in action!

Jo xxx


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

lynn said:


> You asked whether there was any organisation overseeing the British Schools in Spain, and I answered NABSS.
> The OP has the opportunity to PM me should he wish to ask any further information about my personal experience of a particular school. I don't feel it is helpful or necessary to post second hand tittle tattle.


Well, many posts here consist of just that...second -hand tittle-tattle. Anyone who reports experiences engages in that to some extent. For example: I can recommend to you an excellent Estremadura wine....recommended to me by my neighbour. Second-hand opinion. 
You are an educated woman and are well able to distinguish between good and poor schools, as I'm sure is the OP. But as Jo has affirmed, there are at least a few establishments here that none of us would send our children to. There are more parents than you or I would wish who do not have our experience or knowledge.
I once worked for a Head who had run private schools in several countries, including Spain. His PhD was bought online from one of those US 'universities' which have no academic status. His only talent was to bulls***.
I also have an interest as my Association has members working in private schools in Spain and we have an office in Gib which represents them.
Finally, I'll say this: this forum is immensely useful in many ways for new immigrants to Spain. I have learnt to distinguish whose opinions I value and those I don't.
Now...if you recommended a school based on your experience, which I would consider sound,, I would not hesitate in passing on this recommendation to other interested parties. Then they make up their own minds.
Second-hand tittle-tattle..? I think not.


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## Chap (Nov 21, 2010)

Thanks for everything so far. Obviously the school is perhaps our most important decision for our son. Would any of you be so kind and share your personal experiences with schools and name them?


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

My personal view for what it is worth (I don't have children at school here) is you are facing the wrong direction. Why, if you are moving to Spain as a permanent thing and not proposing to go back to UK, are you looking at International or British schools? Spanish schools can be very good and to teach in them you have to be properly qualified too. To integrate into Spain, your child/ren will need to have a good level of Spanish and a good grounding in the Spanish way of life which he/she/they are unlikely to get in an international or British school.

By comparison with schools back in the UK the kids here are encouraged to work hard and even to take on extra work to ensure that they do well, not a bit like UK. Kids here finish school at about 2.30 -3 pm, take a short break then they are off to all sorts of extra classes (many of their own free-will and classes of their own choosing) including: music, foreign languages, additional maths, sports including football training, karate, etc. and they all do very well. There is none of the hanging around on street corners committing wanton vandalism. Children here, apart from the odd immigrant ones, are well-behaved and respectful of other people and their property.

The medical profession, as you know, requires dedication and good education to achieve which they obtain through Spanish schools - so many Spanish doctors go to UK, not because they are no good but because the system here means that it is difficult to get permanent positions and there are too many very well qualified doctors trying to get into too few jobs.


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## lynn (Sep 25, 2008)

baldilocks said:


> My personal view for what it is worth (I don't have children at school here) is you are facing the wrong direction. Why, if you are moving to Spain as a permanent thing and not proposing to go back to UK, are you looking at International or British schools? Spanish schools can be very good and to teach in them you have to be properly qualified too. To integrate into Spain, your child/ren will need to have a good level of Spanish and a good grounding in the Spanish way of life which he/she/they are unlikely to get in an international or British school.
> 
> By comparison with schools back in the UK the kids here are encouraged to work hard and even to take on extra work to ensure that they do well, not a bit like UK. Kids here finish school at about 2.30 -3 pm, take a short break then they are off to all sorts of extra classes (many of their own free-will and classes of their own choosing) including: music, foreign languages, additional maths, sports including football training, karate, etc. and they all do very well. There is none of the hanging around on street corners committing wanton vandalism. Children here, apart from the odd immigrant ones, are well-behaved and respectful of other people and their property.
> 
> The medical profession, as you know, requires dedication and good education to achieve which they obtain through Spanish schools - so many Spanish doctors go to UK, not because they are no good but because the system here means that it is difficult to get permanent positions and there are too many very well qualified doctors trying to get into too few jobs.


The OP's son is 12 years old, and therefore, probably too old to enter Spanish school. 
In my experience, there are as many Spanish families sending their children to the internationl school my kids go to than English. This is because they value the education they receive, and they want their children to be bilingual. They are also keen on further education in the UK, which is a big pull (although probably not now fees are due to increase!)


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

baldilocks said:


> My personal view for what it is worth (I don't have children at school here) is you are facing the wrong direction. Why, if you are moving to Spain as a permanent thing and not proposing to go back to UK, are you looking at International or British schools? Spanish schools can be very good and to teach in them you have to be properly qualified too. To integrate into Spain, your child/ren will need to have a good level of Spanish and a good grounding in the Spanish way of life which he/she/they are unlikely to get in an international or British school.
> 
> By comparison with schools back in the UK the kids here are encouraged to work hard and even to take on extra work to ensure that they do well, not a bit like UK. Kids here finish school at about 2.30 -3 pm, take a short break then they are off to all sorts of extra classes (many of their own free-will and classes of their own choosing) including: music, foreign languages, additional maths, sports including football training, karate, etc. and they all do very well. There is none of the hanging around on street corners committing wanton vandalism. Children here, apart from the odd immigrant ones, are well-behaved and respectful of other people and their property.
> 
> The medical profession, as you know, requires dedication and good education to achieve which they obtain through Spanish schools - so many Spanish doctors go to UK, not because they are no good but because the system here means that it is difficult to get permanent positions and there are too many very well qualified doctors trying to get into too few jobs.


I've changed my views on this since being here. First of all International schools have very few British kids. I would say that at least half the kids are Spanish, the rest are made up of a variety of nationalities. In my sons class there are twenty-one children, four are British, the rest are Spanish, Danish, Norwegian, Lithuanian, Ukranian, French, Russian and Iranian and they all get on great with each other and speak a variety of different languages. The headmistress is Spanish and the lessons are taught in English and Spanish by British and Spanish teachers. (physics in Spanish is a joy when trying to help with homework lol).

At 12, a child will have a difficult time picking up the language and then learning the variety of subjects. Its not impossible but the odds arent good that he will be able to fully integrate and learn well ewnough to bring him to standard. 

Interestingly my daughter went to a state school at 11, and left there at 13 (she didnt settle). My son has been in an international school since we came to Spain when he was 12 and he is pretty much fluent, my daughter can barely speak a word!

Jo xxx


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

lynn said:


> The OP's son is 12 years old, and therefore, probably too old to enter Spanish school.
> In my experience, there are as many Spanish families sending their children to the internationl school my kids go to than English. This is because they value the education they receive, and they want their children to be bilingual. They are also keen on further education in the UK, which is a big pull (although probably not now fees are due to increase!)


only bilingual? most kids here will be tri-lingual at least by the time they leave school (Spanish, French and English)


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## lynn (Sep 25, 2008)

baldilocks said:


> only bilingual? most kids here will be tri-lingual at least by the time they leave school (Spanish, French and English)


Yes, they do do French and German at the international school as well. But 'bilingual' is a command of both languages at the same level. State education does not offer this, and this is why some Spanish families are keen to send their kids to international school.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

lynn said:


> Yes, they do do French and German at the international school as well. But 'bilingual' is a command of both languages at the same level. State education does not offer this, and this is why some Spanish families are keen to send their kids to international school.


Sorry, but here the state school does French and English both to same high level, largely because French is useful if one needs to go over the 'border' to work!


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## lynn (Sep 25, 2008)

baldilocks said:


> Sorry, but here the state school does French and English both to same high level, largely because French is useful if one needs to go over the 'border' to work!


No need to apologise. Obviously, the quality of language provision in state education is second to none in your area.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

baldilocks said:


> Sorry, but here the state school does French and English both to same high level, largely because French is useful if one needs to go over the 'border' to work!



Either way, Its now apparent that International schools are not exclusively British. I worry that altho the state schools are good, a child over the age of say 10 is not (in general) going to do brilliantly. Ok, he may integrate, but we know what the job opportunities are like in Spain and does Spain need anymore school leavers in 4 years time?? International schools tend to hang on to kids til they're 18 and get them thru A-levels and the Baccy, so that they can then go on to Uni - in whatever country they choose. I'm certain that when my son leaves school here that he'll go back to the UK to head for Uni there - which is fine. I hope he'll go on to become a pilot - his ambition and will enjoy the freedom of knowing that he can live anywhere in the world.

Sadly we had bad experiences with our daughter in state school, she was bullied (by other English kids), the spanish children there didnt like the British. We moved her to another school, where she did slightly better, but was adamant that she would not learn their "stupid" language, which she didnt and she refuesed to do any homework. She then started skiiving, smoking, hanging around with a crowd (spanish who spoke english kids) and was beginning to get into trouble. It was then we moved her into international and I now have my happy, sweet and intelligent daughter back!!!

Obviously all kids are different, so my case could be an isolated one

Jo xxx


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

baldilocks said:


> My personal view for what it is worth (I don't have children at school here) is you are facing the wrong direction. Why, if you are moving to Spain as a permanent thing and not proposing to go back to UK, are you looking at International or British schools? Spanish schools can be very good and to teach in them you have to be properly qualified too. To integrate into Spain, your child/ren will need to have a good level of Spanish and a good grounding in the Spanish way of life which he/she/they are unlikely to get in an international or British school.
> 
> By comparison with schools back in the UK the kids here are encouraged to work hard and even to take on extra work to ensure that they do well, not a bit like UK. Kids here finish school at about 2.30 -3 pm, take a short break then they are off to all sorts of extra classes (many of their own free-will and classes of their own choosing) including: music, foreign languages, additional maths, sports including football training, karate, etc. and they all do very well. There is none of the hanging around on street corners committing wanton vandalism. Children here, apart from the odd immigrant ones, are well-behaved and respectful of other people and their property.
> 
> The medical profession, as you know, requires dedication and good education to achieve which they obtain through Spanish schools - so many Spanish doctors go to UK, not because they are no good but because the system here means that it is difficult to get permanent positions and there are too many very well qualified doctors trying to get into too few jobs.


And yet, according to the recent PISA findings, the UK ranks above Spain in attainment levels for fifteen-year-olds...


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## Chap (Nov 21, 2010)

baldilocks said:


> My personal view for what it is worth (I don't have children at school here) is you are facing the wrong direction. Why, if you are moving to Spain as a permanent thing and not proposing to go back to UK, are you looking at International or British schools? Spanish schools can be very good and to teach in them you have to be properly qualified too. To integrate into Spain, your child/ren will need to have a good level of Spanish and a good grounding in the Spanish way of life which he/she/they are unlikely to get in an international or British school.
> 
> By comparison with schools back in the UK the kids here are encouraged to work hard and even to take on extra work to ensure that they do well, not a bit like UK. Kids here finish school at about 2.30 -3 pm, take a short break then they are off to all sorts of extra classes (many of their own free-will and classes of their own choosing) including: music, foreign languages, additional maths, sports including football training, karate, etc. and they all do very well. There is none of the hanging around on street corners committing wanton vandalism. Children here, apart from the odd immigrant ones, are well-behaved and respectful of other people and their property.
> 
> ...


I appreciate what you are saying about a Spanish school but at 12 I do believe that he is a few years too old to handle the (potential) full integration issues. As it is he is not the most naturally academic child and I would not ever risk it being too much for him, the thought of entering a Spanish school would scare him to death. I am fully prepared to pay whatever is necessary to get him into the best International school I can. Thanks


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Chap said:


> I appreciate what you are saying about a Spanish school but at 12 I do believe that he is a few years too old to handle the (potential) full integration issues. As it is he is not the most naturally academic child and I would not ever risk it being too much for him, the thought of entering a Spanish school would scare him to death. I am fully prepared to pay whatever is necessary to get him into the best International school I can. Thanks


I take your point but have found that the children here in the village are like the adults as far as welcoming and helping newcomers IF (and it is a big IF) the newcomers are warm, open and welcoming, too. I have been here two years now and I am always greeted warmly with open arms but then I do the same to the Spaniards (I should add that my Spanish is very limited but that makes no difference). There are a number of other Brits who are just ignored. Why? because that is their own attitude. I speak (albeit in Spanish), if only to say good morning, but they just either put their heads down or look the other way which is just no way to become integrated or even welcomed. 

The kids here are good, they work hard and they help each other. They are very competitive too, striving to be top of the class but they will also turn round and help the others who are not doing so well and help them to achieve. They do the same for foreign children too.

It is mainly the difference between village children (and adults) and townies, their attitudes to life and people are vastly different, although I believe there are differences wherever you are, e.g. Basques are different from Catalans are different from Madrileños are difference from Jaenese. Those in Alcaudete (15 miles away) are different from Alacalainos (7 miles in opposite direction) are different from Castilleros (here)


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Chap said:


> I appreciate what you are saying about a Spanish school but at 12 I do believe that he is a few years too old to handle the (potential) full integration issues. As it is he is not the most naturally academic child and I would not ever risk it being too much for him, the thought of entering a Spanish school would scare him to death. I am fully prepared to pay whatever is necessary to get him into the best International school I can. Thanks


I have no personal experience of either state or private education in Spain. I have considerable experience of both in the UK, both as someone who has worked in the state system and my professional association and as someone who has family members educated at UK public schools.
What I am going to say may be obvious to you...in which case, bear with me
The first thing I would do when considering a school is to ask for the staffing list. It should have the degrees and other professional qualifications gained listed. Ask about their experience. Staff turnover is another factor and says a lot about a school.
Then there's the curriculum. How closely does it follow the UK National Curriculum, assuming that is an important consideration for you. What public exams does it prepare its pupils for; what is the pass rate; does it have links with universities/employers in the UK or elsewhere in Europe...
I would also consider it important to ask whether any kind of criminal record checks are carried out on the staff. I worked with a man who was caught in the Operation Ore trawl and served six months for downloading child pornography. The Head I was then working for -he of the dodgy doctorate - blithely advised him to seek a post in a Spanish private school as 'they don't ask questions there'.
There are some excellent schools here which produce not only excellent results but also well-rounded, socially confident pupils in the best English public school tradition.
On Monday I was talking to a teacher in charge of the Sixth Form at a local private school. They clearly operate a scheme similar to the Duke of Edinburgh award in the UK so she is bringing some of her students to work in the refugio where I volunteer as part of this scheme.
Whatever/wherever you decide, good luck.


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## Chap (Nov 21, 2010)

mrypg9 said:


> I have no personal experience of either state or private education in Spain. I have considerable experience of both in the UK, both as someone who has worked in the state system and my professional association and as someone who has family members educated at UK public schools.
> What I am going to say may be obvious to you...in which case, bear with me
> The first thing I would do when considering a school is to ask for the staffing list. It should have the degrees and other professional qualifications gained listed. Ask about their experience. Staff turnover is another factor and says a lot about a school.
> Then there's the curriculum. How closely does it follow the UK National Curriculum, assuming that is an important consideration for you. What public exams does it prepare its pupils for; what is the pass rate; does it have links with universities/employers in the UK or elsewhere in Europe...
> ...


Thank you, makes a lot of sense


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Chap said:


> Thank you, makes a lot of sense


De nada


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Chap said:


> Thank you, makes a lot of sense


It does! NABSS also make sure that most of the things mentioned by MRPG9 which is why, IMO you should only look at schools who are affiliated!

Jo xxx


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## Guest (Dec 22, 2010)

chap / if I were you the school for the son would be the most important factor. Also it would be an international school at his age. I can just add that, geographically, I do not know of any international schools east of Malaga, so that stretch of the CDS is probably out of the question for you, (I may be wrong, correct me if so).


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## bob_bob (Jan 5, 2011)

mrypg9 said:


> And yet, according to the recent PISA findings, the UK ranks above Spain in attainment levels for fifteen-year-olds...


Spain must be doing badly then because in all honesty the education system in the UK is in meltdown. We churn out children clutching handfuls of GCSE 'O' levels which in reality are not worth the paper they are printed on, half the children can't fill in an application form let alone write up a good C.V.

Mr Blair said we should all pop off to uni and get a degree, but in what? Media Studies? Women's Studies? Golf Course Design? Really useful stuff 

Both my children went to Grammar School and it paid dividends, they are both bright, intelligent, very well educated, and tough cookies bought on by the discipline of good Schooling and above all they are genuinely nice people. If they were young and things were different I believe I'd prefer them to be in an International School in Spain rather than a dumb downed comprehensive in the UK.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

bob_bob said:


> Spain must be doing badly then because in all honesty the education system in the UK is in meltdown. We churn out children clutching handfuls of GCSE 'O' levels which in reality are not worth the paper they are printed on, half the children can't fill in an application form let alone write up a good C.V.
> 
> Mr Blair said we should all pop off to uni and get a degree, but in what? Media Studies? Women's Studies? Golf Course Design? Really useful stuff
> 
> Both my children went to Grammar School and it paid dividends, they are both bright, intelligent, very well educated, and tough cookies bought on by the discipline of good Schooling and above all they are genuinely nice people. If they were young and things were different I believe I'd prefer them to be in an International School in Spain rather than a dumb downed comprehensive in the UK.


Well, I don't think anyone would want to send their children to what you describe as a 'dumbed down comprehensive', would they?
I too was educated at a grammar school, as was my son. My grandsons are public school educated. They too are really pleasant individuals with good character but wouldn't set the heather ablaze academically.
All of us went to or are going to university, my grandsons to do sports degrees..
I don't blame Blair for the dumbing down of university degrees. Imo that started over thirty years ago when mediocre polytechnics were transformed into universities in order to accommodate swelling numbers. 
As for grammar schools...some were incredibly mediocre, others good, a few outstanding. The quality of a school depends largely on leadership. Good Heads can be found throughout the state system just as poor Heads can be found in public/private schools, not all of which are good. Money doesn't automatically buy class.
There is no doubt in my mind that educational standards in the UK are on a steep decline. It was of course Labour's Jim Callaghan who initiated the 'education debate' at the end of the 70s when it became apparent that employers were not happy with the quality of school leavers.
I think the reasons for this are manifold: trendy teaching methods (a sixties legacy that still lingers on), poor quality of many teachers, poorly targetted investment in education -no use simply throwing money at schools as Labour did - , poor parenting and a general dumbing-down of much of our lives through inane media and the dire culture of money and celebrity-obsession.
There are some excellent comprehensives and academies and some dire ones.
Same applies to the private sector too.
I know of two schools in the UK in my previous locality which are simply excellent, in terms of exam results and character-building. These are state schools.
I know of an independent grammar school and a fee-paying school in the same area, both of which I would not send any child of mine to.

Incidentally I think you are being unfair...just a little...to 'Women's Studies'. Some such courses have solid academic content.
I took my first degree in German and Philosophy and could have called it 'Men's Studies'. It was a long time ago, true, but I do not recall mention of a single female writer, poet, painter or playwright or hearing of a single female politician, although Germany has many outstanding females in the arts, sciences and politics.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

...and to think that I complain that many of my teachers were useless old farts who had been brought out of retirement during the war to replace those who were on active service and then just could not be got rid of. I never had a decent English Grammar teacher until the fifth year of Grammar school, they were all Eng. Lit. teachers with the consequence that for four years I was 31st or 32nd out of a class of 32, then jumping to 2nd in one term and staying there!


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## bob_bob (Jan 5, 2011)

When having a bash at my Masters I talked to a Chemistry lecturer from Poland, she told that the typical 'A' level student starting a degree in chemistry was on a par with most 14 year olds in Poland (in terms of maths); she had only been here a year and was completely disillusioned with the calibre of student and the course; she moved to Canada in 2009.

My old profession became a graduate only job a few years ago and my word standards have got progressively worse, the youngster's get the degree but don't know enough, we have to mentor them for months to maintain safety.

Britain falls behind Poland and Slovakia in university tables - Education News, Education - The Independent


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

I personally believe that alot of what kids can gain from their education is down to their upbringing and their family! A child from an uncaring family will have a higher risk of not doing well at school or at life afterwards! 

So therefore, it kinda follows that those who put a high value on their kids education and indeed their kids will chose schools carefully and will follow their schooling. Sadly in a lot of the large comps in the UK (and possibly here in Spain) there are a lot of kids who dont have their families support and therefore dont do as well - so is it fair to blame the school and the teachers????

Jo xxx


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## Caz.I (Mar 21, 2009)

Well I think there are a lot of factors involved in education, although I would agree that is a very important one.
As for the claim of dumbing down in the UK system, when I was teaching English to a class of Spanish adults a few years ago, I started a discussion about the belief that standards of education had dropped in the UK. All the parents in the class said that they felt that exactly the same has happened to the Spanish education system over the last 20 years!


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## bob_bob (Jan 5, 2011)

Family support is vital, a parent must be involved with a childs education. A good friend of my own children is Indian and homework was first and play came second; no school homework? no problem his father set work for them. Three girls and a boy in the family, all have now got 1:1 degrees, one is a solicitor (or will be) two have become accountants and the third is training as a doctor. Academic failure was not really an option for them.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

bob_bob said:


> When having a bash at my Masters I talked to a Chemistry lecturer from Poland, she told that the typical 'A' level student starting a degree in chemistry was on a par with most 14 year olds in Poland (in terms of maths); she had only been here a year and was completely disillusioned with the calibre of student and the course; she moved to Canada in 2009.
> 
> My old profession became a graduate only job a few years ago and my word standards have got progressively worse, the youngster's get the degree but don't know enough, we have to mentor them for months to maintain safety.
> 
> Britain falls behind Poland and Slovakia in university tables - Education News, Education - The Independent



The Report you cite does not mention quality or standards, it merely comments on the decline in graduate numbers percentage-wise, an important distinction, don't you think?. 
I have spent time in Polish and Czech schools and whilst standards in some basics are undoubtedly higher than in the UK I would not agree that the overall standard is higher. Most Poles I know consider everything Polish is superior!
There are four UK universities in the world top ten, including UCLU, my old Uni. 
No Polish or Czech Universities feature in the top twenty. We must be doing something right. A degree from Cambridge, Oxford, University College or Imperial College London is highly valued, well above any from the Jagiellon Krakow or Charles, Prague. Many less exalted UK universities are regarded as excelling in their particular specialities.
It's easy to generalise about education at aoll levels and difficult if not impossible to make meaningful comparisons.
There are however important factors which contribute to a 'good' education at any level: quality of leadership, quality of curriculum, quality of teaching and motivation of parents and students. The last of course is mutually dependent.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

jojo said:


> I personally believe that alot of what kids can gain from their education is down to their upbringing and their family! A child from an uncaring family will have a higher risk of not doing well at school or at life afterwards!
> 
> So therefore, it kinda follows that those who put a high value on their kids education and indeed their kids will chose schools carefully and will follow their schooling. Sadly in a lot of the large comps in the UK (and possibly here in Spain) there are a lot of kids who dont have their families support and therefore dont do as well - so is it fair to blame the school and the teachers????
> 
> Jo xxx


No, it isn't!!
But there are also parents who pay to send their offspring to private schools then assume their responsibility ends there.
It's not fair to single out large comprehensives.
Parents generally don't take their responsibilities as seriously as they should, imo.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Caz.I said:


> Well I think there are a lot of factors involved in education, although I would agree that is a very important one.
> As for the claim of dumbing down in the UK system, when I was teaching English to a class of Spanish adults a few years ago, I started a discussion about the belief that standards of education had dropped in the UK. All the parents in the class said that they felt that exactly the same has happened to the Spanish education system over the last 20 years!


My Spanish friend Meri -a teacher - and I spend many evenings happily moaning about the decline in educational standards, the dreadful manners of the young, the lack of respect for authority and so on and on ad infinitum.
Moaning aboiut such things is a very enjoyable and ancient pastime. There is ample evidence that the Greeks and Romans had a good old moan and whinge about these things.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Here, many parents (including public school teachers) send their kids for private lessons, so what does that say about the standards of public school teaching? This not only applies to languages but also to mathematics. 

The children themselves, in some cases, will flag up that they don't think they are doing as well as they could and ask to have additional (private) lessons which they then have to fit in with their other activities. There are classes here in the house every day including Saturdays and Sundays right up to 9.30pm, even during school holidays. 

These kids aren't dumb - they want to do well, they are motivated either from within themselves of from within the home. Such attitudes and motivation, I never saw in UK where the priority in children's minds was "play"


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

baldilocks said:


> Here, many parents (including public school teachers) send their kids for private lessons, so what does that say about the standards of public school teaching? This not only applies to languages but also to mathematics.
> 
> The children themselves, in some cases, will flag up that they don't think they are doing as well as they could and ask to have additional (private) lessons which they then have to fit in with their other activities. There are classes here in the house every day including Saturdays and Sundays right up to 9.30pm, even during school holidays.
> 
> These kids aren't dumb - they want to do well, they are motivated either from within themselves of from within the home. Such attitudes and motivation, I never saw in UK where the priority in children's minds was "play"


Sorry, but I considered that a sweeping generalisation and therefore invalid.
Very many pupils in the UK state system have concerned parents who pay for extra-curricular tuition. Many of my retired teacher friends make a very comfortable living from giving such lessons.
My Spanish teacher friend would disagree with you. She works in a school where the pupils are Spanish yet complains bitterly of lack of motivation, parental discipline, respect...all the things you suggest are unique to the UK.
I was for years a Board member of Education International, an organisation affiliated to UNESCO which represents millions of teachers fromm almost every country in the world.
I have had many conversations with educators from many countries and heard their complaints about falling standards etc.etc.
Interestingly, the only teachers who seem content with their pupils are those from developing countries where it seems education was for long a scarce 'commodity' and is now accordingly valued.


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## bob_bob (Jan 5, 2011)

The major problem today is that you cannot be seen to put pressure on a child to learn, we live in a culture of 'nobody can fail' when in reality of course folks often do. We can't all have a degree and nothing wrong in that and thats why I'm a great believer vocational education too.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

bob_bob said:


> The major problem today is that you cannot be seen to put pressure on a child to learn, we live in a culture of 'nobody can fail' when in reality of course folks often do. We can't all have a degree and nothing wrong in that and thats why I'm a great believer vocational education too.


You've hit the nail right on the head there
The original idea with the 1944 Butler Act was to create a tripartite system with secondary, grammar and technical schools but the technical school idea never took of, sadly.
That and the killing off of the apprentice system in the UK.....
When we were in business in the UK we were often desperately seeking people with skills and qualifications but they were in very short supply. We took on four apprentices as we needed to train people but we were one of very few companies in our area to do that. We do not value our engineers and technicians sufficiently.
I don't know if the system has changed but in Germany it was the case that your vocational education continued after you left school with compulsory day release until the age of eighteen.
If everyone has a degree then it becomes valueless. I have friends who, when taking on graduate trainees, look not at the class of degree but at the University that awarded it.
I'm so happy that Michael Gove has tightened up requirements for acceptance on a PGCE course. 
What we need though is less concentration on 'high fliers' and more on raising the educational and cultural levels of the majority of the population.
I'm sure I'm not the only person who is amazed and appalled at the levels of (il) literacy of some posters.


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## gus-lopez (Jan 4, 2010)

mrypg9 said:


> You've hit the nail right on the head there
> The original idea with the 1944 Butler Act was to create a tripartite system with secondary, grammar and technical schools but the technical school idea never took of, sadly.
> That and the killing off of the apprentice system in the UK.....
> When we were in business in the UK we were often desperately seeking people with skills and qualifications but they were in very short supply. We took on four apprentices as we needed to train people but we were one of very few companies in our area to do that. We do not value our engineers and technicians sufficiently.


Tell me about it ! This question comes up every month in my engineering inst. magazines that I still receive. Anyone in the UK can call themselves an engineer whereas in countries like Germany it's on par with being a Doctor.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

gus-lopez said:


> Tell me about it ! This question comes up every month in my engineering inst. magazines that I still receive. Anyone in the UK can call themselves an engineer whereas in countries like Germany it's on par with being a Doctor.


How true.....Before he switched to housing consultancy and politics, my ex-husband was a Chartered Engineer with a degree in Electronics. When he told people he was an engineer by profession, people often assumed he repaired washing machines and fridges.
He was actually engaged on what was then pioneering work in solid state physics....


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## jimenato (Nov 21, 2009)

My job title at one time was Software Engineer. What crap. I trained as a Computer Programmer and I had a successful and lucrative career as one and I was always proud to call myself one.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

gus-lopez said:


> Tell me about it ! This question comes up every month in my engineering inst. magazines that I still receive. Anyone in the UK can call themselves an engineer whereas in countries like Germany it's on par with being a Doctor.


The same problem occurs with teachers - there is no controlling body that gives status to the title and specifies the requirements for using it. That is why you get so many expats who are crap "teachers" of English in foreign countries who work on the basis that they (think) they can speak it so therefore they can teach it, right? No! Wrong!

Unless they are *properly qualified* to teach a particular language, they should not be allowed to do so, by law! and that applies to non-expats too!

Similarly the same condition should apply to translating and interpreting. Then, we might not see "remove los ingredientes" being translated as 'remove the ingredients' instead of "stir the ingredients"! or housebuyers getting sold a pig in a poke because their interpreter did a bad job!

and yes, I've got my angry mood on today!


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## SuziC (Oct 20, 2010)

Chap said:


> Hi
> after months of investigation and visits we have finally decided on the South over the Costa Blanca to relocate. We are coming over in Feb and April to view a number of villas but I must admit I am really unsure where to lay down our new routes. I spent a year in Benalmadina in the 90's so I know that area quite well, we have holidayed many times in the region since but I am very aware that there are so many communities on the Costa del sol that I dont know of yet! This is also not a holiday I am planning, but a whole new life.
> My wife and I will be bringing over a 12 year old boy, so at that age we are only considering International schools so school location is also a consideration. we are not bothered about being close to the beach but we are quite a social couple and would like to be in an area with a community centre with a few bars and restaurants. We also have to be in an area that is mainly residential and not just holiday homes so that hopefully there will be other children around for my son. Areas we are looking at so far include Calahonda, Elviria, El Rosario, La Cala and more inland towards Benhavis & Alhourin. Any advice about towns will be really appreciated!




Hi we moved over to La Cala nearly 3 years ago with our 4 children the oldest at the time was 11 youngest only 1. Love it and have settled in well. We put the kids in the local spanish school in La Cala and they settled in great. Touch and go with eldest who had no spanish but she survived and is now in the secondary school doing well! Love La Cala as a village has everything that you would want. Good luck and if you have any questions will be happy to try to help!


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

baldilocks said:


> The same problem occurs with teachers - there is no controlling body that gives status to the title and specifies the requirements for using it. That is why you get so many expats who are crap "teachers" of English in foreign countries who work on the basis that they (think) they can speak it so therefore they can teach it, right? No! Wrong!
> 
> Unless they are *properly qualified* to teach a particular language, they should not be allowed to do so, by law! and that applies to non-expats too!
> 
> ...



Now now...anger doesn't mean you can play fast and loose with the facts, you know
Firstly, let's look at where you are right. Yes, there are in many countries so-called 'teachers' of English whose only qualification is that they speak their native tongue...often badly. There were loads of these types in Prague. But whilst I regret the situation as much as you -probably more since I am a fully qualified teacher with two degrees and a PGCE plus fully qualified to interpret/translate, something I did for years as a very lucrative sideline - I don't see how any Government can 'pass a law' banning this practice. How wouold it work? Many of these 'teachers' work on the black or for unregistered 'language schools'.
Now where you are wrong: yes, there are bodies which specify requirements for the status of teacher. In the UK, it is the GTC ,General Teaching Council, which performs this function. Unless you are recognised by the GTC you cannot teach.
Minimum requirements for entry to the profession are a B.Ed degree or a degree plus PGCE ( Post-Graduate Teaching Certificate).
Michael Gove has recently pronounced that only those with Second or First Class degrees will be allowed to teach which I am very pleased about.
I know of no opther European country which does not have similar arrangements.
Thirdly...as for teaching English as a foreign language...well, there are TEFL and CELTA qualifications which most teachers of this kind have. No way do these have the standard of a degree but they do provide instruction in the basic skills of teaching and the rudiments of the language they wish to teach.
Finally....the Institute of Translating and Interpreting -the ITI -is the regulatory body for people offering this skill.
So your anger is rightly targetted at those people who imagine they can teach English because it's their mother tongue.
But way off target regarding the rest.


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## country boy (Mar 10, 2010)

Engineers are the Whores of Industry. Everyone uses us but no-one really appreciates what real talent we have for getting them out of their mess


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

country boy said:


> Engineers are the Whores of Industry. Everyone uses us but no-one really appreciates what real talent we have for getting them out of their mess


That's because we in the UK have always regarded engineers as 'people who get their hands dirty' and who aren't very bright.
Sheer ignorance.
When I did my first (language) degree I was naturally a member of the Arts Faculty. Both Arts and Science Faculties as a whole looked down on the Engineering Faculty as somehow second-class. (They gave the best end-of-year Ball, though ).
As I said earlier, my ex-husband was studying Electronic Engineering and we had many bitter arguments about the relative merits of our studies. Because of him my ignorance was dispelled.
This false idea of engineers as people who 'work with their hands' -as if there's anything wrong with that anyway- may have its roots in the cult of the aesthete, the 'cultured person' who looks at trade and industry with distaste.
I went to a grammar school where we were expected to become lawyers, doctors, or similar professionals....or to marry them.
Until I met my ex I had no idea what 'engineers' did or of the various branches of engineering.
I honestly don't think much has changed in society's perceptions since then.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

mrypg9 said:


> Now now...anger doesn't mean you can play fast and loose with the facts, you know
> Firstly, let's look at where you are right. Yes, there are in many countries so-called 'teachers' of English whose only qualification is that they speak their native tongue...often badly. There were loads of these types in Prague. But whilst I regret the situation as much as you -probably more since I am a fully qualified teacher with two degrees and a PGCE plus fully qualified to interpret/translate, something I did for years as a very lucrative sideline - I don't see how any Government can 'pass a law' banning this practice. How wouold it work? Many of these 'teachers' work on the black or for unregistered 'language schools'.
> Now where you are wrong: yes, there are bodies which specify requirements for the status of teacher. In the UK, it is the GTC ,General Teaching Council, which performs this function. Unless you are recognised by the GTC you cannot teach.
> Minimum requirements for entry to the profession are a B.Ed degree or a degree plus PGCE ( Post-Graduate Teaching Certificate).
> ...


You are too quick to jump on my back as usual. I am not referring to UK but here in Spain. So many unqualified (without even TEFL or CELTA) people set themselves up to teach English (or any other language) when they don't have the skills to do so and when their own English is not exactly up-to-scratch especially as far as grammar is concerned.


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## bob_bob (Jan 5, 2011)

country boy said:


> Engineers are the Whores of Industry. Everyone uses us but no-one really appreciates what real talent we have for getting them out of their mess



Same with nursing


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

baldilocks said:


> You are too quick to jump on my back as usual. I am not referring to UK but here in Spain. So many unqualified (without even TEFL or CELTA) people set themselves up to teach English (or any other language) when they don't have the skills to do so and when their own English is not exactly up-to-scratch especially as far as grammar is concerned.


Sorry but you didn't make that clear. It seemed as if you were making another generalisation.
As I said, I agree with you but I can't see what anyone can do about it, as I said.
On the whole, mistranslation at a 'lower' level isn't a major catastrophe and can be quite amusing. Any sensible person can gain the intended meaning from context. 
At a more serious level then of course a perfect match between languages should be made. You may remember that Reagan's interpreter badly mistranslated the President's statement that he wanted to improve relations with Poland into 'he wanted to have better sex with them'.
No cause for war there but much embarassment, methinks.
Good translation/interpretation relies on many factors other than a literal transcription. My work was mainly with commercial texts but I also had to translate technical and legal documents which I found very exacting.
I once made an utter fool of myself by biting off more than I could chew. I accepted a contract to interpret at a Convention of heating engineers at London's Cafe Royale. The two languages required were German and French and I foolishly bid for French.
I was way out of my depth and the final straw was when I misinterpreted the term for 'internal', using the medical rather than technical one required. At that point the Chairman demanded I be replaced...
I can still feel the humiliation decades on...


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