# help needed for my daughter please



## redwillow (Jun 17, 2011)

my daughter has lived in spain for 19 yrs, she has a spanish partmer, and has 5 children, she is very unhappy and wants to come back to england, does anyone know how she will have to go about this please, is she allowed to take the children out of the country ? thanks


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

redwillow said:


> my daughter has lived in spain for 19 yrs, she has a spanish partmer, and has 5 children, she is very unhappy and wants to come back to england, does anyone know how she will have to go about this please, is she allowed to take the children out of the country ? thanks


Sorry to hear about your daughter's situation. You must all be worried and stressed about it. However, before you get any info from people who "supposedly" know what they are talking about, please be warned the only firm legal answer that you will get will be from a face to face meeting with legal professionals who know about european law.
Having said that this forum has people who can give useful _*advise*_ and _*pointers*_.


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## redwillow (Jun 17, 2011)

who does she need to see, she is trying to get in touch with the British consul


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

redwillow said:


> my daughter has lived in spain for 19 yrs, she has a spanish partmer, and has 5 children, she is very unhappy and wants to come back to england, does anyone know how she will have to go about this please, is she allowed to take the children out of the country ? thanks


If it were the other way around (UK to Spain) you would have to obtain permission from your spouse ..... Spain to UK, I really dont know .... logic tells you that she would have to get permission, but as stated, you probably need proper legal advice


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## redwillow (Jun 17, 2011)

I`m so worried about her, I believe she`s being ill treated


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## bristolbrett (Oct 30, 2010)

redwillow said:


> who does she need to see, she is trying to get in touch with the British consul


Hi Redwillow, sorry to hear about your daughter's difficulties. Without giving any info to identify her, is her location Malaga as in the location you have put for yourself (I assume you are in the UK)? This will help to pinpoint local services for her.


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## Morten (Apr 20, 2011)

You need, need, need to get her to go speak to a lawyer. If she is being mistreated the first step is probably a denunciation ... but you really must leave all such deliberations up to the lawyer - theres plenty of english/english speaking ones all over Spain (fx Spanish Lawyer. Lawyers Spain )


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

This isn't much help, but there's info on what to do if you are a victim of domestic violence here in Spain. I'm sure your daughter already knows about this, but just in case.
Tumbit.com - How To Guides - Help For Victims Of Domestic Violence In Spain
Here's a link to all the consulates in Spain
Our Consulates


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## redwillow (Jun 17, 2011)

thanks you, I will send this to her


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## bristolbrett (Oct 30, 2010)

Morten said:


> You need, need, need to get her to go speak to a lawyer. If she is being mistreated the first step is probably a denunciation ... but you really must leave all such deliberations up to the lawyer - theres plenty of english/english speaking ones all over Spain (fx Spanish Lawyer. Lawyers Spain )


I'm sorry Morten, but if she is being mistreated then the first step is NOT a denunciation as this may put her and/or the children at risk. 

Despite Spain's current emphasis on combatting domestic abuse, local responses and outcomes are highly dependent on the local situation. Therefore, the first step is to get in contact with the local domestic abuse support facility so that they can give advice with knowledge of all the risk factors and protective capacity of the area this woman lives in (e.g. 24 hour, free, multilingual, domestic abuse helpline number is 900 200 999). 

If this is not an issue of mistreatment, or she doesn't want to acknowledge/address this at this time, then legal information is imperative. However, a quick scan suggests to me that she doesn't need to limit herself to a Spanish lawyer for this but could go direct to an international lawyer; perhaps one based in the UK (http://www.divorceaid.co.uk/legal/international.htm ). Indeed, redwillow could ask for the free info from them perhaps?

Also, any of the free newspapers from the costas will have information about accesing free initial legal consultations, which redwillow could google and access.

http://www.divorceaid.co.uk/legal/international.htm


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## redwillow (Jun 17, 2011)

she dowsnt have any money, so she wouldn`t be able to pay a lawyer, is there any sort of legal ais in spain ?


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## Morten (Apr 20, 2011)

bristolbrett said:


> I'm sorry Morten, but if she is being mistreated then the first step is NOT a denunciation as this may put her and/or the children at risk.


No need to apologize - I wasnt aware of that and it is dead important the advice is right and correct on this. The type of problems you touch upon there hadnt occured to me as possible.

Most lawyers offer a free consultation, which could be a good start to get a few pointers of the direction to take. Free legal aid is possible in Spain - but something you apply for, this part is almost definitely something the consulate can help with - check here (in english) for instance: European Commission - European Judicial Network - Legal aid - Spain

If you have the funds to do so, it might indeed be a better idea to take on a british lawyer on behalf of your daughter.


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## mepossem (May 28, 2011)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Sorry to hear about your daughter's situation. You must all be worried and stressed about it. However, before you get any info from people who "supposedly" know what they are talking about, please be warned the only firm legal answer that you will get will be from a face to face meeting with legal professionals who know about european law.
> Having said that this forum has people who can give useful _*advise*_ and _*pointers*_.


just advi*c*e here from my part:

a. are the children by her partner?
b. she can call 016 - the number does not come up in an invoice etc. and explain her situation, it's a helpline for maltreated women
c. she can go to the Guardia Civil also - phone number 062
d. this has NOTHING to do with European Law. There is an international treaty on who/what/where etc. and I _suppose_ that, her partner has some rights on the kids. She will have to see a lawyer on that, probably get a court decision etc (should he not agree on visitation rights etc.).
e. one option is also to go and see a notary if the partner might agree on her moving to the UK - family law is NOT my strongest point.

My advice: tread carefully, maybe you are under the wrong impression. And yes, that she goes to the Guardia Civil - they take these things very seriously here in Spain.

And indeed don' to go with all the information like 'I heard in the bar', 'I know from my best friend' and that sort of things. One Spanish woman has been in jail for years in the US for something similar (mutatis mutandis, as it mainly involved contempt of court) and she ... is a professional spanish lawyer.


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## mepossem (May 28, 2011)

Morten said:


> No need to apologize - I wasnt aware of that and it is dead important the advice is right and correct on this. The type of problems you touch upon there hadnt occured to me as possible.
> 
> Most lawyers offer a free consultation, which could be a good start to get a few pointers of the direction to take. Free legal aid is possible in Spain - but something you apply for, this part is almost definitely something the consulate can help with - check here (in english) for instance: European Commission - European Judicial Network - Legal aid - Spain
> 
> If you have the funds to do so, it might indeed be a better idea to take on a british lawyer on behalf of your daughter.



thanks for the reference - I didn' t know they referred to it.
However, take care as the information is 5 years old, and - certainly in the Valencia comunidad - a bit too unspecific.

Fyg - the Madrid bar is on 'slow motion' on free legal aid since the state did not pay for some 2 years, Valencia same etc.
And lawyers get a fixed amount - not very inducive to handle complicated cases, they prefer going for easy things 

forgot to mention: basically the fact she might want to go to Britain is of less importance than is the 'fact' she wants to separate and live apart. Whether to Britain or another European country is of minor importance. Important, but minor - once the main things have been settled, i.e. there is agreement or a court decision. I may be overplaying my hand here though.


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## bristolbrett (Oct 30, 2010)

mepossem said:


> forgot to mention: basically the fact she might want to go to Britain is of less importance than is the 'fact' she wants to separate and live apart. Whether to Britain or another European country is of minor importance. Important, but minor - once the main things have been settled, i.e. there is agreement or a court decision. I may be overplaying my hand here though.


me possem
However, if she is being abused the issue of where she can go to be safe is of utmost importance and, if this is the UK because of finances and support, then things need to be legally in place to do that before she makes any explicit move out of the relationship. 

Redwillow
Not knowing the details of her relationship, nor the community where she lives, nor the availability of good legal advice from experts in European law AND domestic abuse in her area, my advice (as a professional who has worked in this field) would stand.

If she is being abused then 1st port of call is support from the organisations in Spain that are experts in domestic abuse, and people have given contact points above. They can support her to keep safe while she seeks legal advice, and they should have access to legal experts and information about financial support to do all of this. 

If she isn't being abused, or doesn't want to go that route, and is going to want to take the children to the UK then 1st port of call is a lawyer with expertise in European family law. People have given pointers to some of these above; find one that WILL give a free consultation. The consulate MAY help her with this but they are not always as helpful as you would expect in my experience. 

Morten, no worries; safety first in these situations.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

I've not read all the posts, but I would ask if the kids have passports?? If so could she take them to visit grandparents in the UK and while there get some legal aid and guidance???? Altho its possible if she was too "open" about her plans to do that, their father may be able to stop her taking them out of the country???? But that may draw welcome attention from the authorities to her problems

Jo xxxx


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## Caz.I (Mar 21, 2009)

redwillow said:


> she dowsnt have any money, so she wouldn`t be able to pay a lawyer, is there any sort of legal ais in spain ?


As someone has said, there is legal aid but it is a very slow process. I have done it myself to get a custody agreement for my son, but it took several years to go through the courts - and we were agreed on the details! (it also takes about 3 months to be assigned a lawyer - and that is after handing in a mountain of documents.) However, under the circumstances, if she gets in touch with the Instituto de Mujer in her local area, or rings the helplines, they often provide free legal advice and are usually very helpful to women in such circumstances. Aside from that, it is possible to get an initial consultation with a lawyer for about 50 euros - you just have to phone round a few for prices. 

I also think Mepossem has made a good point - if she is in danger, it may be more urgent to live separately here before thinking about returning. There are women's refuges here too. And, also, from the legal research I have done into similar issues in Spanish law for my own family, one parent normally has to have permission from the other parent before they can take the children out of the country. There is something called the Hague Convention which makes it illegal for one parent to do so without permission from the other. And the courts may also favour the parent with Spanish nationality. 

Although it is possible to do a notarised agreement, a judicial one has more weight and the courts may over-ride the notarised agreement should any problems arise in the future. It is best IMO to approach such issues carefully and cautiously, get the best legal advice and just take one step at a time.


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## redwillow (Jun 17, 2011)

[I phoned my daughter today, and she is not allowed out on her own, she has a mobile phone, but has no money for credit, she doesn`t have a landline, she has no money of her own whatsoever. she said she wants to come back on her own, and then try to get the children back. she said she has to be careful of what she says all the time. I`m not going there till september, and I feel so helpless.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

redwillow said:


> [I phoned my daughter today, and she is not allowed out on her own, she has a mobile phone, but has no money for credit, she doesn`t have a landline, she has no money of her own whatsoever. she said she wants to come back on her own, and then try to get the children back. she said she has to be careful of what she says all the time. I`m not going there till september, and I feel so helpless.


Get in touch with the embassy, consul or what ever asap.
If they can't help they should be able to tell you what to do.
Also scour internet and write to as many English speaking lawyers as you can in the area.


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## redwillow (Jun 17, 2011)

ok, i will phone embassy on monday


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## mrnkar (Feb 25, 2011)

redwillow said:


> [I phoned my daughter today, and she is not allowed out on her own, she has a mobile phone, but has no money for credit, she doesn`t have a landline, she has no money of her own whatsoever. she said she wants to come back on her own, and then try to get the children back. she said she has to be careful of what she says all the time. I`m not going there till september, and I feel so helpless.


Are calls to the police not free, might be the best solution if she is in danger & needs to get out of house & take things from there. I really feel the worry for you & also your daughter maybe having to leave the kids. Hope some good happens soon.


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

redwillow said:


> [I phoned my daughter today, and she is not allowed out on her own, she has a mobile phone, but has no money for credit, she doesn`t have a landline, she has no money of her own whatsoever. she said she wants to come back on her own, and then try to get the children back. she said she has to be careful of what she says all the time. I`m not going there till september, and I feel so helpless.


If this is as bad as you think, then it cant really wait until September can it. To put it crudely, wife abuse is not an uncommon thing in Spain. Its better now than it was as the authorities have been tightening up.

You need to ascertain if she can take the children out of the country without his permission. I'm thinking that the Consul in Madrid may well know this. It might be worth calling them to talk about the whole situation.

This is the one: The British Embassy in Spain


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Stravinsky said:


> If this is as bad as you think, then it cant really wait until September can it. To put it crudely, wife abuse is not an uncommon thing in Spain. Its better now than it was as the authorities have been tightening up.
> 
> You need to ascertain if she can take the children out of the country without his permission. I'm thinking that the Consul in Madrid may well know this. It might be worth calling them to talk about the whole situation.
> 
> This is the one: The British Embassy in Spain


yes, and ring them TODAY!!


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## Caz.I (Mar 21, 2009)

Stravinsky said:


> If this is as bad as you think, then it cant really wait until September can it. To put it crudely, wife abuse is not an uncommon thing in Spain. Its better now than it was as the authorities have been tightening up.
> 
> You need to ascertain if she can take the children out of the country without his permission. I'm thinking that the Consul in Madrid may well know this. It might be worth calling them to talk about the whole situation.
> 
> This is the one: The British Embassy in Spain


It is definitely illegal to do so if both parents have parental responsibility (patria potestad), as I said earlier. I have looked into this legally for my own case and it could really make things worse if she does so, because she could actually face charges of kidnapping! This could actually lead to her losing custody of them! The Consul in Madrid AFAIK dont give legal advice in such cases, but yes, call them just in case they may be able to point her in the right direction. 

She may be better coming back on her own now but it may be difficult to fight a custody battle later on without having at least informed the authorities or the Instituto de Mujer about her domestic situation. This will obviously be a very difficult thing to do now but essential to be able to challenge any future legal issues.

However, I know from a close friend's experience that the womens institute are very helpful and compassionate and can provide a place of safety. They can also help to apply to the court for an injunction to stop the abuser coming within a certain distance of the family home. (orden de alojamiento it is called.)


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Caz.I said:


> It is definitely illegal to do so if both parents have parental responsibility (patria potestad), as I said earlier. I have looked into this legally for my own case and it could really make things worse if she does so, because she could actually face charges of kidnapping! This could actually lead to her losing custody of them! The Consul in Madrid AFAIK dont give legal advice in such cases, but yes, call them just in case they may be able to point her in the right direction.
> 
> She may be better coming back on her own now but it may be difficult to fight a custody battle later on without having at least informed the authorities or the Instituto de Mujer about her domestic situation. This will obviously be a very difficult thing to do now but essential to be able to challenge any future legal issues.
> 
> However, I know from a close friend's experience that the womens institute are very helpful and compassionate and can provide a place of safety. They can also help to apply to the court for an injunction to stop the abuser coming within a certain distance of the family home. (orden de alojamiento it is called.)


Sorry Caz I, I need to correct your typo here as it's very important. It's an orden de alejamiento.
(Alojamiento being something quite different)


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## Caz.I (Mar 21, 2009)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Sorry Caz I, I need to correct your typo here as it's very important. It's an orden de alejamiento.
> (Alojamiento being something quite different)


Whoops! thanks for that. Yes, now I realize, alojamiento means accommodation.


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

Caz.I said:


> It is definitely illegal to do so if both parents have parental responsibility (patria potestad), as I said earlier. I have looked into this legally for my own case and it could really make things worse if she does so, because she could actually face charges of kidnapping! This could actually lead to her losing custody of them! The Consul in Madrid AFAIK dont give legal advice in such cases, but yes, call them just in case they may be able to point her in the right direction.
> 
> She may be better coming back on her own now but it may be difficult to fight a custody battle later on without having at least informed the authorities or the Instituto de Mujer about her domestic situation. This will obviously be a very difficult thing to do now but essential to be able to challenge any future legal issues.
> 
> However, I know from a close friend's experience that the womens institute are very helpful and compassionate and can provide a place of safety. They can also help to apply to the court for an injunction to stop the abuser coming within a certain distance of the family home. (orden de alojamiento it is called.)


It all may be so, but some encouragement to positive action is needed, hence my post urging them to act sooner than later


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## Caz.I (Mar 21, 2009)

Stravinsky said:


> It all may be so, but some encouragement to positive action is needed, hence my post urging them to act sooner than later


Yes of course and I wasnt disagreeing with taking action, far from it, but its essential not to do anything rash, that was my point. (Otherwise it could lead to greater problems.) There are people she can contact now if it is needed.


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## Guest (Jun 18, 2011)

It's been mentioned before, but she can also call 016, a free and confidential call, to get information and help from the Spanish government. Service is available in many languages should she prefer not to deal with such delicate matters in Spanish. 

Best of luck to both her and you!


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## Sonrisa (Sep 2, 2010)

I agree with Halydia, please call that 016 number NOW and follow their advice, they are professionals. Fleeing with the children , might have disastruous consecuences for your daughter and her children at the end


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

On another forum she has said her daughter is leaving today without the kids and going to the Embassy for help.


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## Caz.I (Mar 21, 2009)

Stravinsky said:


> On another forum she has said her daughter is leaving today without the kids and going to the Embassy for help.


Then let's hope she gets the help she needs wherever it's from.


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