# Rental And Living Prices in Lisbon



## redbourn

Hi,

I've been checking the Spanish board and pretty much narrowed my preferred place to maybe move to, and it's Vigo.

But I speak Brazilian Portuguese so why not check out Portugal?

My net pension is close to €1400 a month; not big bucks but hopefully enough?

I'm single/divorced and don't have a car.

My plan is to do a recce at the end of this month.

So I'm looking for info on a place to stay for a few nights and any other pertinent info.

Thanks for any feedback,

Michael


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## Foot Ball

dear Michael with that income you will be able to have a comfy living around here , as long as you rent an apartment rather than moving from an hotel to another.....now from what I know in Spain half of that income would go on ur lodgins.....mainly in the big cities....however in lisbon depending on the area you will be able to find something nice for 400 or under......


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## redbourn

Foot Ball said:


> dear Michael with that income you will be able to have a comfy living around here , as long as you rent an apartment rather than moving from an hotel to another.....now from what I know in Spain half of that income would go on ur lodgins.....mainly in the big cities....however in lisbon depending on the area you will be able to find something nice for 400 or under......


Thanks very much 

Can you suggest an area in Lisbon that has a little cafe action, where I can start looking for a one bedroom apartment when I arrive.

I'd like to be able to sit and have a beer in the evenings.

Doesn't have to be in the center.

Michael

P.S. What is usually included or not included in the rent?


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## redbourn

I found these places and they are all similar price for 5 nights

Pensão Praça da Figueira - Travessa Nova de Sao Domingos 9

Residencial Lord - Av Defensores de Chaves 23

Pensao Residencial Estrela dos Santos - Avenida Almirante Reis 53

Estrela dos Anjos Guesthouse - Rua dos Anjos 70,

The following is a little more expensive.

São Pedro Lisbon Hotel - Rua Pascoal de Melo, 130

If anybody has any preferences then please let me know - thanks.


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## canoeman

If your Spanish preference was Vigo then why not North Portugal you have the best of both worlds Spain a short hop but all the extra benefits that Portugal brings for an expat, Viana do Castelo as capital, if you want a city environment Porto & Braga


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## redbourn

canoeman said:


> If your Spanish preference was Vigo then why not North Portugal you have the best of both worlds Spain a short hop but all the extra benefits that Portugal brings for an expat, Viana do Castelo as capital, if you want a city environment Porto & Braga


Thanks.

I'm a little confused by this ..

The city proper has 36,148 inhabitants and the municipality has a total population of 91,238 inhabitants (2006) over a total area of 318.6 km².

I've been living in a town with 25k inhabitants for 2 years and feel like I'm suffocating.

But 



 shows something completely different; I think ;-)

Michael


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## canoeman

Don't think you'd find Vdo Castelo claustrophobic its a nice open spread out sort of place even the areas of apartments are pretty open, Porto & Braga different of course, and unless in the right area of Vigo wouldn't exactly describe that as open especially downtown


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## redbourn

canoeman said:


> Don't think you'd find Vdo Castelo claustrophobic its a nice open spread out sort of place even the areas of apartments are pretty open, Porto & Braga different of course, and unless in the right area of Vigo wouldn't exactly describe that as open especially downtown


Sorry if I wasn't clear. 

What I meant was that with a population of 25k I see the same people all of the time and go to one of three cafe/bars all of the time.

I can walk from one side of the town to the other in 30 minutes, but Vdo Castelo doesn't look like that at all.

Michael


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## canoeman

All I can say it has many distinct areas on both sides of the River Lima so like any town you make of it want you want, from central touristy/local type areas to the beaches or the old town, we visit it fairly frequently and still find new bits and places


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## Foot Ball

redbourn said:


> Thanks very much
> 
> Can you suggest an area in Lisbon that has a little cafe action, where I can start looking for a one bedroom apartment when I arrive.
> 
> I'd like to be able to sit and have a beer in the evenings.
> 
> Doesn't have to be in the center.
> 
> Michael
> 
> P.S. What is usually included or not included in the rent?


Cafe? we are in Portugal.....loool every corner is a coffee shop....the thing I most like here ...... check out benfica....quite cheap and lively ....


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## redbourn

Foot Ball said:


> Cafe? we are in Portugal.....loool every corner is a coffee shop....the thing I most like here ...... check out benfica....quite cheap and lively ....


The following gives me an idea and I'm sure prices can be negotiated. This was from an agent on the internet. 

Is it the area that you meant?

Need to get back on the ball with my Portuguese which was very good 13 years ago ;-)

1 bedroom apartment for rent
Price: 400 €

Property placed on: Tuesday, May 7, 2013
Property last updated: Thursday, May 16, 2013
Typology: T1
District: Lisbon
County: Lisbon
Parish: São Domingos de Benfica
Floor area: 70 m2
Year Built: 1979
Reference: LT1Arrendamento45
Area / Location: Columbanus


Property Description
Building located in Av.Columbano B.Pinheiro, (Metro station 3 minutes) Features kitchen with cooker, Refrigerator and water heater, 2 Balconies, Living Room with 19 m2 and 13 m2;


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## Foot Ball

could be is that but I live in algarve I ony know things from visiting friends, but back to tthe topic......yes you should live in Portugal, everything is more laid back relaxed


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## redbourn

Foot Ball said:


> could be is that but I live in algarve I ony know things from visiting friends, but back to tthe topic......yes you should live in Portugal, everything is more laid back relaxed


Thanks ;-)


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## redbourn

Have been wondering how to handle the trip/move for a couple of weeks.

I was going to come for a visit in two weeks time check the place out and then if I like it which is likely, come back here and prepare to move.

But because it would involve the cost of coming twice staying in hotels twice and maybe not being able to rent on the first trip because any potential landlord would probably say, "Well I can't guarantee that the place will be available in a month".

I decided that the first thing to decide was that I want to move from the town where I live right now, and I decided, "yes I wan't to move".

So this is my present plan.

1) Give my present landlord 6 weeks notice to quit my apartment; it will be very easy for him to re-rent it at a higher price.

2) See what the new tenant wants to buy.

3) Box up the things that I definitely want to ship somewhere later; two to three boxes which I can leave at a friend's house.

4) Two weeks before the move out date, advertise a garage/boot sale and sell whatever things I can.

5) Come to Portugal and check things out. If I like it and take an apartment then have my friend ship my boxes; and if I don't like it, then have them shipped later when I do find a place to settle.

The above also means that I won't be paying for a hotel while I'm also paying rent here.

If anybody has any comments or suggestions about the above then please post them.

Thanks.

BTW I found this for shipping my pc 



 - a very clever idea!


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## canoeman

If you haven't visited Portugal before wouldn't think it's a good plan, the country is very diverse, so the Algarve is nothing like other areas, same as Lisbon is nothing like the other major cities, personally would have thought a recce before a decision the sensible course of action, plenty of alternatives to hotels so you can keep cost down


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## redbourn

canoeman said:


> If you haven't visited Portugal before wouldn't think it's a good plan, the country is very diverse, so the Algarve is nothing like other areas, same as Lisbon is nothing like the other major cities, personally would have thought a recce before a decision the sensible course of action, plenty of alternatives to hotels so you can keep cost down


Thanks. I'm indeed going backwards and forwards on how to handle this.

If I'm going to leave where I live now then the advantage of the above is that I'll save 1500 euros a month on the rent for a place that I don't intend to go back to, which would probably add up to at least 3000 euros rent plus an additional 500 euros airfare. 

3,500 euros that I could spend looking for somewhere suitable in Portugal.

I lived in France for 2 years, Brazil for a year and Belgium for 6 months (along with some non-Latin countries) so I don't imagine Portugal will be a shock.

I'll see how things unfold in the next few weeks.

Michael


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## Foot Ball

Portugal is beautiful, laid back and diversity is gooood


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## redbourn

Foot Ball said:


> Portugal is beautiful, laid back and diversity is gooood


Well I just made a contingency plan.

I now have places to stay with friends in Tel Aviv and in Liverpool if for some reason I need to regroup.

I never liked selling things and once even paid a friend 10% to sell a a car for me.

But I will have to get stuff cleaned up, listed and priced.

A good time to learn to do something that I always avoided ;-)

Michael


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## pintarroxo

Hi Rebourn, it would be difficult to recommend neighborhoods without knowing a little about your preferences and lifestyle. Things such as: Do you prefer historic apartments or more modern high-rises, do you want to be within walking (or jogging, biking, etc) distance from the river, would you like to be able to walk to art galleries or nightlife, would you be happy in a quiet commuter neighborhood or would you rather be somewhere with more activity.... Due to my own answers to these questions and more, I chose the historic center and I couldn't be happier. Would be happy to offer some suggestions for you based on the above. Best of luck to you.


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## redbourn

pintarroxo said:


> Hi Rebourn, it would be difficult to recommend neighborhoods without knowing a little about your preferences and lifestyle. Things such as: Do you prefer historic apartments or more modern high-rises, do you want to be within walking (or jogging, biking, etc) distance from the river, would you like to be able to walk to art galleries or nightlife, would you be happy in a quiet commuter neighborhood or would you rather be somewhere with more activity.... Due to my own answers to these questions and more, I chose the historic center and I couldn't be happier. Would be happy to offer some suggestions for you based on the above. Best of luck to you.


Thanks, I will come up with answers to the above a little later. 

It's good that you put my attention on it 

Michael


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## redbourn

Took a big step today!

Asked a realtor to find somebody to take over my rental apartment.

My main stipulation was that they buy the contents; with a few exceptions.


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## redbourn

A sogra chega para uma visita surpresa. O genro abre a porta:
"Olà! Não nos vemos há tanto tempo! Quanto vais ficar conosco desta vez?"
A sogra sorri, querendo ser gentil:
"Até vocês se cansarem de mim."
"A sério? Não vais nem tomar um cafezinho?"

The mother-in-law comes for a surprise visit. The son-in-law opens the door:
"Hi! Long time no see! How long are you staying this time?"
The mother-in-law smiles, trying to be polite:
"Until you get tired of me."
"Really? You’re not even staying for a coffee?"


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## redbourn

pintarroxo said:


> Hi Rebourn, it would be difficult to recommend neighborhoods without knowing a little about your preferences and lifestyle. Things such as: Do you prefer historic apartments or more modern high-rises, do you want to be within walking (or jogging, biking, etc) distance from the river, would you like to be able to walk to art galleries or nightlife, would you be happy in a quiet commuter neighborhood or would you rather be somewhere with more activity.... Due to my own answers to these questions and more, I chose the historic center and I couldn't be happier. Would be happy to offer some suggestions for you based on the above. Best of luck to you.


First thoughts on this ..

For the last two years I've lived in Arad which is a desert town of 25k people and I quite like the size of the town but it's 40 mins from the nearest big town and I don't like being that far away.

Where I am now only has a couple of local cafes plus a tourist one, which I can't or wouldn't go to every day. So somewhere with a little variety.

Not a high rise, but a ground plus two floors would be fine. Not impossible to keep clean though. Where I live it's an ongoing fight against dust.

Would be nice if there were a park that allowed barbecuing or a complex that allowed it. 

After 14 years in LA and a year in Brazil, plus 10 years in Israel, I like to barbecue with friends.

I am single and would like a one bedroom with enough room in the living room for a pull out sofa for overnight guests.

I like to cook and need power points in the kitchen.

Internet connection is important.

Rent around 350 euros although I could pay a little more for the right place.

Thanks,

Michael


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## pintarroxo

Hi again Michael,

I will be happy to stand corrected by someone here, but from my experience here in Lisboa, 300-350 euros will rent you a room in a shared apartment, not an independent flat.

When you come visit you can decide if this is where you want to be. If you prefer smaller towns a distance away from the city, I'm sure you can do better in price. 

But as far as central Lisboa goes: There are lovely parks all around the city. But they are urban parks, not the type where you can barbeque. You can get a compact propane grill and barbeque on your balcony, or else rent a res do chao (ground floor apartment) with a private patio in the back. You will not have any problem getting good internet service. There are a variety of companies that offer residential packages with cable/internet/land line phone. I think dust is inevitable in the city, as homes are set right against the street. 

I recommend buying a good street map and a metro pass and just exploring the neighborhoods. I think everything will fall into place once you determine where you want to live.


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## canoeman

Or Google earth and street view on that budget personally think Lisbon too expensive for your requirements


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## redbourn

@pintarroxo @canoeman thank you both.

I'm surprised that you both think that I'm not allocating enough money for a one bedroom in Lisbon and thanks for tipping me off.

http://i40.tinypic.com/mh3go0.jpg

Give the image about 10 secs to load.

I know nothing about the area of course and just pulled them off of the web.

Might easily be something that I'm missing ;-)

Michael


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## canoeman

It's your other criteria that could be your issue when it comes to 300-400€ pm


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## redbourn

canoeman said:


> It's your other criteria that could be your issue when it comes to 300-400€ pm


Thanks; which of my criteria is boosting the price the most?

I found a big difference checking prices in Portuguese and in English.

"aluguel apartamento lisboa longo prazo" and not "long term rentals in Lisbon".

Once I'm there I will check out places and decide on a balance between the price and my preferences ;-)

How does it work with a deposit and months in advance?

Am now figuring out what to ship and what to sell or give away.

I have a lovely Canon printer and fax machine but not worth shipping because of the weight. I have a DVD player with speakers which isn't very heavy and will maybe fit into carry on luggage along with my pc monitor. Laptop can go into my checked in luggage; carefully packed ;-)

etc etc which you probably know only too well.

Michael


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## greycharlestoner

Further to the post about trying out Northern Portugal, my wife and I intend to retire to Portugal, and have considered Beja, near Odemira in the Alenteju, Portalegre and around cimbra...recently however I came across a very suitavble property in Northern Portugal near Braga....

My question is does it get much rain [and cold] in Winter in this area than further south, in general terms?


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## canoeman

I wouldn't pick Beja has a cold Russian steppe type weather, Braga region also can be cold and wet, Viana de Costelo region especially Caminha to Moncao has a much more temperate climate as does Coimbra region unless you go towards the Serra de Estrala.

Difficult question to answer this year as like everywhere weather patterns aren't exactly normal, have a look here at weather history IPMA - Mapas

We have friends in V do Castelo region and they like the seasonality of the area without any extremes of cold


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## greycharlestoner

Hi Canoeman


The house was near Viana do Castelo...if that helps?:fingerscrossed:


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## canoeman

Ideal, but that makes it hardly near Braga


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## greycharlestoner

canoeman said:


> Ideal, but that makes it hardly near Braga


Sorry remembered the district wrong!

This is indeed the area...

Worryingly I noticed a thread on this site relating the substantial increase in expats tax being levied on money one has in the bank and income from pensions over 1350.00 euros per month...comments please


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## canoeman

If this is the article on here with information from Belvin Franks then I think its rather misleading as it relates to Portuguese salaries and Pensions and not to worldwide income under which we declare Pensions.
There have been a couple of years where an "extraordinary tax" has been imposed but this is against Portuguese salaries & Pensions not UK
As Portugal have a couple of schemes specifically designed to attract "wealthy pensioners, entrepreneurs etc" individuals, so very are unlikely to follow Spain or Cyprus examples, 

Pensions and tax are very simple, if you move to Portugal and become a resident then 
1. You must make a yearly Tax return * if *your income/pension is +293€ *per month*
2. You must declare Worldwide income etc (so UK pension/s)
3. Certain UK Pensions must be taxed in UK (Forces etc) but must still be declared here + any tax paid
4. You can opt to pay tax on Pensions in UK or Portugal any UK Tax paid because of Tax Treaty is offset against any possible Portuguese Tax, it's seeing how you can take best advantage of UK Tax free allowance.
5. System of allowances different to UK in so far as you can claim tax relief in certain areas you can't in UK like Medical costs, Health Insurance although all of these allowances have shrunk a bit in recent years but % still offset against any tax due.

Portuguese Tax year is Jan to Dec, and tax is declared as a Family unit not as individuals


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## greycharlestoner

*UK Pensioners and taxation*

Hi Canoeman

Many thanks..that is indeed the Blevin Franks report...

Regards weather as we are hoping to enjoy, amongst other benefits in retiring to Portugal, more sun and nice weather than UK,

but we do understand that everyone gets a winter time with rain and cold.

We are from Cape Town with a Med climate and winters there are pretty rainy cold and miserable though no snow or icing up of roads of course.

Just wondering of there was any nocibale difference in rain/cold in the far North of Portugal and Central around Coimbra Lousa etc.

I was led to believe that the Alentejo near say near Odimira or Portalegre benefitted from warmer[ie darn well hotter] weather than further north...


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## canoeman

Certain areas of Alentejo suffer from really cold dismal weather, peruse the information on the Portuguese weather site
This year certainly central has probably had worse weather than the North from what friends tell me, north always has a bit more rain but you can't have the "Green Coast" without it, North again I can only say viana region and along Minho doesn't suffer with the cold extremes as does the top right of Portugal Megalcao, Braga area


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## greycharlestoner

Hi canoeman

I can see that the Alentejo is a very large area, I am looking at a cottage about half an hour in an Easterly direction from Odemira when we come there in August, and another not that far from Portalgre...as well as a few in Central and the one in Northern Portugal which is the only one with d/glasing and a central heating air con function..it's a modern bungalow...

many thanks for all advise!

regards

Geoff


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## redbourn

Well somebody bought all my furniture today so the move is getting close!

I have a lease until the end of August but my rental apartment is now listed and I've said that I can move out earlier.

Bought a laptop since I'll have to wait for my PC.

If you live in Lisbon then please let me know and maybe we can meet up?

Have downloaded a couple of European Portuguese courses since mine is Brazilian.

The clock is ticking and the adventure will soon begin ...


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## siobhanwf

GOOD LUCK Redborn


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## redbourn

Well my landlord came by yesterday and he is going to buy the contents of my apartment!

With the exception of my personal stuff of course.

So the latest date for my departure will be the end of August but he's going to advertise the apartment for rent right now.

So the deed is done and the commitment made!

It would be nice to meet up with an expat or two in Lisbon so if that's you then please send me a pm.

Thanks,

Michael


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## redbourn

Had a really good day today!

Arrived in Lisbon six days ago and my ideas of waking up after the first day and going apartment hunting proved false.

Even though I'm very used to traveling and living in different countries I did very little of practical use for the first three days.

A different language, even though my Portuguese used to be fluent; a different bedroom and kitchen etc. ; having to learn where the shops are; and how to buy a ticket for the metro etc etc.

Anyway it soon became clear that it was highly unlikely that I'd be able to rent an apartment before the week that I'd booked at the guest house expired.

And the guest-house told me that I wouldn't be able to stay any longer because somebody else had reserved the room.

So as of this morning, I had nowhere to stay tomorrow and no new apartment!

At 11:30 a.m. today I went with an agent to see an apartment, and I rented it from September 1. 

It's normally rented to tourists, so it's fully furnished and ready to move into. It's 400 yards (meters) from the beach on a quiet street. 350 Euros ($460) a month, taxes included. One month in advance and one month security deposit and I didn't have to pay the agent commission!

Where is the new apartment?

Costa Caparica.

Across the 25 April suspension bridge from Lisbon, magnificent sandy beaches stretch south for nearly 30 kms from Caparica to Cabo Espichel. 

Caparica, itself is a fishing village with a cluster of guest houses and small hotels, and it's principally a summer resort for the people of Lisbon. 

On the cliff above the beach with its brightly-colored sardine boats, stands an old Capuchin Monastery originally founded in 1558. 

For bathers, an open-carriage railway runs for 10 km along the beaches of the Costa da Caparica during the summer months.

And where will I live in the meantime?

I went to see a guest-house this afternoon, and it's in a better area than I've been in; the bedroom room is bigger, and the asking price was 25% cheaper.

So I rented it, and because I found it by word of mouth I paid no agent fee.

http://i44.tinypic.com/k2y22t.jpg


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## oronero

Sounds good Michael.


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## redbourn

oronero said:


> Sounds good Michael.


Thanks!

I'm feeling more relaxed now!


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## anapedrosa

It sounds like you have landed quite nicely on your feet. Congratulations on your successful move!


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## redbourn

anapedrosa said:


> It sounds like you have landed quite nicely on your feet. Congratulations on your successful move!


Thank you,

Michael


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