# Land claims



## Guest (May 15, 2009)

Hi!
Have anyone seen this article? Landmark court ruling means Britons could be forced to return homes in Northern Cyprus - Telegraph

What can be the result in the south? There can probably be the same claims there. The refugee stream went both ways

Regards

Anders


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## gloucester_geezer (May 5, 2008)

Vegaanders said:


> Hi!
> Have anyone seen this article? Landmark court ruling means Britons could be forced to return homes in Northern Cyprus - Telegraph
> 
> What can be the result in the south? There can probably be the same claims there. The refugee stream went both ways
> ...


Hi Anders,

Hallellueah!! or however you spell it...

Your comments are very correct Anders, I have been saying exactly that for a long time. There will be a lot of people that have bought in the South that are under the impression that all is fine ref the land, but as you have pointed out the land issue will affect both sides of the border. I think that it will all be sorted out at government level myself but will take a good while to get it all sorted that is for sure.

Paul


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## Veronica (Apr 5, 2008)

gloucester_geezer said:


> Hi Anders,
> 
> Hallellueah!! or however you spell it...
> 
> ...


Unlike in the North the government in the South does not allow developers to build on Turkish owned land. 
There are some Turkish owned houses which are being occupied by Greek Refugees from the North who pay a nominal rent for them and have to keep them in good condition so that in the case of any solution the righful owners can reclaim them and they will be in a habital condtion.
Many more turkish properties have been left empty and fallen into disrepair.
There is land which belonged to Turkish Cypriots that has been taken by the government for roads, the airport at Laranca etc but the owners will be compensated.
It must be remembered that the problem in the North is that the illegal Turkish rulers in the North have been issuing false title deeds which have no basis in any legal system. The land registry in Nicosia is the only legal body and only deeds issued by them pre 1974 are legal. 
Turkish owned agricultural land in the South is also being worked by Greek Cypriots but they are fully aware that they cannot build on it or sell it and if the Turkish owners return they will be able to claim it back.


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## gloucester_geezer (May 5, 2008)

Veronica said:


> Unlike in the North the government in the South does not allow developers to build on Turkish owned land.
> There are some Turkish owned houses which are being occupied by Greek Refugees from the North who pay a nominal rent for them and have to keep them in good condition so that in the case of any solution the righful owners can reclaim them and they will be in a habital condtion.
> Many more turkish properties have been left empty and fallen into disrepair.
> There is land which belonged to Turkish Cypriots that has been taken by the government for roads, the airport at Laranca etc but the owners will be compensated.
> ...


Good in theory Veronica but we all know that plenty of TC land, especially around Pafos which had a large TC community pre 1974, has been built upon. Villas, hotels, golf courses... etc.. 
Certainly do not want to get into a tit for tat arguement on here and the only thing to say is that time will tell. I have friends that live in Peyia and they are fully aware of the number of places that have been built on TC owned land.

We shall see in time.


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## Guest (May 15, 2009)

Veronica said:


> Unlike in the North the government in the South does not allow developers to build on Turkish owned land.
> There are some Turkish owned houses which are being occupied by Greek Refugees from the North who pay a nominal rent for them and have to keep them in good condition so that in the case of any solution the righful owners can reclaim them and they will be in a habital condtion.
> Many more turkish properties have been left empty and fallen into disrepair.
> There is land which belonged to Turkish Cypriots that has been taken by the government for roads, the airport at Laranca etc but the owners will be compensated.
> ...


I am not really so sure that it will be easy to seattle this. With the new rulers in the north it will be no progress in the unification talks for the moment. With Turkey on the road to EU it has to be a Cyprus solution before that can happen but if it will be a 1 or 2 state solution, no one knows really. History has given too many examples of how difficult it is. And even in this forum for Expats you can hear so many voices that is negative to the North.

Just a thought

Anders


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## gloucester_geezer (May 5, 2008)

Vegaanders said:


> I am not really so sure that it will be easy to seattle this. With the new rulers in the north it will be no progress in the unification talks for the moment. With Turkey on the road to EU it has to be a Cyprus solution before that can happen but if it will be a 1 or 2 state solution, no one knows really. History has given too many examples of how difficult it is. And even in this forum for Expats you can hear so many voices that is negative to the North.
> 
> Just a thought
> 
> Anders


Hi Anders,

Very true.. I think that the EU made a big mistake when they allowed the South to join the EU, they should have told them to sort out the Cyprus problem, and then you can join. That way there would have been an incentive, for both sides of the border, to reach an agreement. Now, it is a one-sided battle and as the South are now in the EU they do not have that incentive.

There is a lot of anti-North feelings from the people in here... I used to feel different than I do now in relation to the North.. that was before I spent any time up there and once you go most people see it in a totally different light. I DO NOT have any leanings to one side or the other... I enjoy Cyprus as a whole. I do have both Greek and Turkish Cypriot friends and the key word there is actually 'Cypriot' and not Greek or Turkish! A lot of the negative comments that you read on here are also driven by monetary reasons; some people do not want the flow of Brits up to the North to continue, for every family that moves North then that is one less villa or apartment that can be sold in the South. Simple maths really and of course very understandable.

A very complex issue and one that the Cypriots need to sort out, but as you say there is a lot of negative history there and whether they can reach an agreement, especially with the change of leadership, is another thing!


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## Veronica (Apr 5, 2008)

gloucester_geezer said:


> Hi Anders,
> 
> Very true.. I think that the EU made a big mistake when they allowed the South to join the EU, they should have told them to sort out the Cyprus problem, and then you can join. That way there would have been an incentive, for both sides of the border, to reach an agreement. Now, it is a one-sided battle and as the South are now in the EU they do not have that incentive.
> 
> ...


Your comments are very cynical. 
If our motives were driven by monetary considerations we would be telling people the life is wonderful and encouraging people to move here. Ifyou were to read many of the threads on here you would see that that is far from the case.
I and other agents on here are constantly telling people to do their homework and not come unless they are sure they can afford it. I have probably put more people off coming here by telling it how it is than I have encouraged so please do not insult me by accusing me of having ulterior motives.
You talk about things that you actually know little about and maybe once you actually come to live here you might learn a thing or two.

As for the North South issue the real losers in the whole thing are the Turkish Cypriots who are outnumbered by illegal Turkish immigrants in the North. 
I lived here before the split and the Cypriots of both sides lived peacefully side by side and it is a great shame the Greek and Turkish governments could not leave them alone.


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## Guest (May 16, 2009)

*Land Claims*

Hi Veronica!

I dont live on Cyprus either and even if I have visted the island many times it is necessary for me to know as much as possible before we move. One of these things is what will happen in the future. I dont think there is any "monetary conciderations" from the Expats even if many IS critics of the north. But anyhow, with the new government in the north, openly saying that a reunion is no option, the chance for this must be minimal. And this new government is there because the Turk Cypriots voted for them. That cant be blaimed on some illegal immigrants. Perhaps Turkey will force a 1 state solution because of the EU membership negotiations, but if that is a good, future will tell.


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## Veronica (Apr 5, 2008)

Vegaanders said:


> Hi Veronica!
> 
> I dont live on Cyprus either and even if I have visted the island many times it is necessary for me to know as much as possible before we move. One of these things is what will happen in the future. I dont think there is any "monetary conciderations" from the Expats even if many IS critics of the north. But anyhow, with the new government in the north, openly saying that a reunion is no option, the chance for this must be minimal. And this new government is there because the Turk Cypriots voted for them. That cant be blaimed on some illegal immigrants. Perhaps Turkey will force a 1 state solution because of the EU membership negotiations, but if that is a good, future will tell.


Anders the whole North/South issue is a very sad one with losers on both sides but unfortunately it is the fact that Turkey put two fingers up to the international community and flooded the North with Turks despite being warned not to that has caused most of the problems. They then further infuriated the international community by allowing these people to not only steal Greek Cypriot land but also to build on it and sell it with title deeds issued by the illegal government. It must be remembered that this government is not recognised as a legal entity by anyone other than Turkey.
I wish that there could be an amicable solution and who knows maybe one day there will be, but there is a lot to be sorted out before that can happen.
The government of the Southern half of the island is the only legal government which is why they were allowed to join the EU. (I am not sure that joining the EU was actually a good thing though)
I used to love going to the North before the division, the landscape is fantastic and I loved Kyrenia. I went there two years ago for the first time since the split and I came away feeling very depressed by what has happened up there. I wont be in a hurry to go there again.hwell:


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## gloucester_geezer (May 5, 2008)

Veronica said:


> Anders the whole North/South issue is a very sad one with losers on both sides but unfortunately it is the fact that Turkey put two fingers up to the international community and flooded the North with Turks despite being warned not to that has caused most of the problems. They then further infuriated the international community by allowing these people to not only steal Greek Cypriot land but also to build on it and sell it with title deeds issued by the illegal government. It must be remembered that this government is not recognised as a legal entity by anyone other than Turkey.
> I wish that there could be an amicable solution and who knows maybe one day there will be, but there is a lot to be sorted out before that can happen.
> The government of the Southern half of the island is the only legal government which is why they were allowed to join the EU. (I am not sure that joining the EU was actually a good thing though)
> I used to love going to the North before the division, the landscape is fantastic and I loved Kyrenia. I went there two years ago for the first time since the split and I came away feeling very depressed by what has happened up there. I wont be in a hurry to go there again.hwell:


Hello Veronica,

Wow.. you seem to have taken my comments very personally for some reason; Ic can assure you that nothing I said was directed at you in that manner. I don't know you and have not had any dealings with you so I would not look to judge you as I have nothing to base that upon.

You say that I do not know what I am talking about... actually I do! 8 years spent living on the island, 6 years in the South, 2 of my 3 sons born there, and 2 years in the North I think do qualify me to have an informed opinion about the island. I also speak some Greek and some Turkish. This is after all a 'forum' veronica, and that invites opinions and comment from all angles, the fact that it does not fit with your opinion does not make it any less valid. I am sure you agree with that.

I note your comment about enjoying the North in the past; me too... and wonder exactly what it is that now depresses you to the point that you will no longer go back? Over building? Commercialisation? Prices going up? All those happened a long time ago in the South of course, and some call it progress! I personally do not.

I state again that I do not have any bias towards either side and I would welcome an agreement that allowed a 'single island' scenario once again.

Paul


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## Veronica (Apr 5, 2008)

gloucester_geezer said:


> Hello Veronica,
> 
> Wow.. you seem to have taken my comments very personally for some reason; Ic can assure you that nothing I said was directed at you in that manner. I don't know you and have not had any dealings with you so I would not look to judge you as I have nothing to base that upon.
> 
> ...



The thing I found most depressing was the surely unfriendly attitude of the Turks. Note I said Turks not Turkish Cypriots. The Turkish Cypriots have a place in my heart as I had many friends in the community before the split andalways found them really genuine and lovely people. The Turks on the other have a bad attitude and it is an unfortunate fact that the Turkish Cypriots are now outnumbered by Turks. 
My main reason for discouraging people from buying in the North is the problems with illegal land sales and also the poor infrastructure. We know people who have bought there (they are friends of good friends of ours) and although their house is finished they have been told that it could be 5 years before they get water and electricity. They tell us they know many more people in the same boat.
I dont know how widespread this situation is but from what these people tell us their develpoment is far from being the only one with this problem.

Regards Veronica


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## Cyn (Jun 8, 2009)

Now I'm concerned -- I have bought agricultural land in the SOUTH, and have my title deeds, and yet "geezer" mentions that there are plenty of things built on TC land in the south. 

I went through a reputable lawyerto do the actual purchase and land registry, and as I said, I have my title deeds. It is zoned to build on, but before we start the house, do I have anything to worry about??


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## gloucester_geezer (May 5, 2008)

Cyn said:


> Now I'm concerned -- I have bought agricultural land in the SOUTH, and have my title deeds, and yet "geezer" mentions that there are plenty of things built on TC land in the south.
> 
> I went through a reputable lawyerto do the actual purchase and land registry, and as I said, I have my title deeds. It is zoned to build on, but before we start the house, do I have anything to worry about??


Hi Cyn,

Sorry if my comments have made you concerned, but being informed is the best way to be. I would suggest that you contact your solicitor and ask them to show who owned the land before the 'split', i.e. before 1974. If it was owned by a Greek Cypriot, no problem whatsoever... if it was owned by a Turkish Cypriot then a different story potentially.

I hope all is well with your land. The recent Orams case from the North shows what may well happen over and over again, and on both sides of the border.

Regards,

Paul


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## Veronica (Apr 5, 2008)

I really do not think that you have anything to worry about as the South have not entered into the exchange land game which the north is known for.
Yes some Turkish land has been used for projects such as airports and roads etc and the owners of that land will be compensated once an agreement is reached but the Greek Cypriots are not selling Turkish owned land to foreigners unlike what is happening in the North.
Certainly for your own peace of mind ask your solicitor to check who the pre 1974 owner was but I am sure you will find that everything is OK.

Regards Veronica


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## Cleo Shahateet (Feb 23, 2009)

This is a very sensitive topic obviously and the outcome is unkown. However, and not to scare you Cyn but I know of personally of a Turkish Cypriot who has recently sold his land in Yeroskipou. Luckily it was not built on or had anyone doing business on it but it was the first case like this in the South so I am sure there will be more to come - no one knows when though. There is also a restuarant in Mandria that was built and doing business on TC land - nothing is for certain so it is good you have an experienced attorney who checked into it for you, Cyn _ Good luck!


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## gloucester_geezer (May 5, 2008)

Cleo Shahateet said:


> This is a very sensitive topic obviously and the outcome is unkown. However, and not to scare you Cyn but I know of personally of a Turkish Cypriot who has recently sold his land in Yeroskipou. Luckily it was not built on or had anyone doing business on it but it was the first case like this in the South so I am sure there will be more to come - no one knows when though. There is also a restuarant in Mandria that was built and doing business on TC land - nothing is for certain so it is good you have an experienced attorney who checked into it for you, Cyn _ Good luck!


Nice to see a posting that is not dodging the issue of TC land being used in the South.... with the best will in the world you cannot expect a nation or people, in this case the GC nation, not to utilise/build upon/sell/use for business etc. land that they really feel should be theirs anyway. I think the posting above is a very important and honest one. For you own piece of mind Cyn, get it checked out and then you can relax about it.

Paul


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## Guest (Jun 8, 2009)

*Land Claims*



gloucester_geezer said:


> Nice to see a posting that is not dodging the issue of TC land being used in the South.... with the best will in the world you cannot expect a nation or people, in this case the GC nation, not to utilise/build upon/sell/use for business etc. land that they really feel should be theirs anyway. I think the posting above is a very important and honest one. For you own piece of mind Cyn, get it checked out and then you can relax about it.
> 
> Paul


I think I started this thread.
Of course this will be an issue on both sides even if I also think that its much more common in the north
I am also quite sure that it will not be solved until the rest of the Cyprus issue is solved . And with the outcome of the EU parliament election it will not be easier. Whith the no Turkey in EU group ruling in the parliament, Turkey will probably not be very interetsed in solving the Cyprus problem

Just my opinion

Anders


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## Cyn (Jun 8, 2009)

Cheers, Veronica. I trust my lawyer and I'm sure had there been any problem he'd have told me, but I've dropped him an email anyway.


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