# Urgent advice please



## junemichael (Jul 30, 2009)

Has anyone here in Cyprus purchased and had built a log/timber home? If so please can you email me all the information please as want to know if it is easy to get planning permission and how long it took, how much the house cost and if advantages and disadvantages.

Also has anyone not got electricity to their property and use alternative energy instead? If so what do you use and is this year round and the cost. We were told the government give grants for solar energy etc.


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## kimonas (Jul 19, 2008)

junemichael said:


> Has anyone here in Cyprus purchased and had built a log/timber home? If so please can you email me all the information please as want to know if it is easy to get planning permission and how long it took, how much the house cost and if advantages and disadvantages.
> 
> Also has anyone not got electricity to their property and use alternative energy instead? If so what do you use and is this year round and the cost. We were told the government give grants for solar energy etc.


We investigated the possibility of a log cabin after seeing a friend's Finnish Log Cabin in Lythrodontas (completed meany years ago), and there are many examples of them scattered around the island (particularly in Troodos) - the company representatives and showroom in Nicosia of one reputable company were absolutely useless however, and we lost confidence in them. We later found that the local planning restrictions where we wanted to build did not allow large exanses of exposed timber. The cost of log houses also work out very similar (if not a bit more expensive) than concrete. In the end we opted for an eco-friendly timber framed but baumit rendered construction. Planning permission was a bit of a nightmare - took about 18 months. The house was built by a Bulgarian company - very efficient - only 41 days to complete. We're now waiting for the services to catch up. The only alternative really for electricity is a generator, but they're noisy and smelly. The cost of connecting a remote location to the grid can be prohibitive and take ages (we put in a request over a year ago and are still waiting). I think for virtually all constructions now you're looking at a minimum of 1000E per square metre with respect to costs. The old addage of do a budget estimate and then double it is a good rule of thumb - there are so many hidden costs that the saying that self build is a logistical nightmare, I think does hold. I don't think we would have got as far as we have without my Cypriot wife's ability to persuade, and my mother-in-law's ability to say the right things to the right people in the right places. Our friend's in Lythrodontas are very happy with their log cabin, but it is a bit of a pain to maintain as it has to be painted with wood preserver at least once a year becasue of the intense sun damage, and that is quite costly apparently - also you have to keep any land around the cabin well ploughed and maintained to ward off insect attack and avert the danger of brush fires getting to the house (a real danger in the summer).


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## Veronica (Apr 5, 2008)

junemichael said:


> Has anyone here in Cyprus purchased and had built a log/timber home? If so please can you email me all the information please as want to know if it is easy to get planning permission and how long it took, how much the house cost and if advantages and disadvantages.
> 
> Also has anyone not got electricity to their property and use alternative energy instead? If so what do you use and is this year round and the cost. We were told the government give grants for solar energy etc.


Hi June, welcome to the forum.
Are you asking these because you have a limited budget or because you want an eco friendly home?
We know several people who live in timber framed houses here and they regret it as they say that the houses constantly creak and groan and feel very unstable underfoot. They are not a lot cheaper to build than conventional houses so not a lot gained there. Steel frame seems to be far more suitable for this climate than timber frame if it is eco friendly you are looking for.
There are several options available for energy if you house is too remote for electricty to be installed. 
Photovoltaics are very efficient and you can generate enough energy to be totally self sufficient. There are grants available from the government for this and also for geothermal energy.

Regards
Veronica


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## junemichael (Jul 30, 2009)

Veronica said:


> Hi June, welcome to the forum.
> Are you asking these because you have a limited budget or because you want an eco friendly home?
> We know several people who live in timber framed houses here and they regret it as they say that the houses constantly creak and groan and feel very unstable underfoot. They are not a lot cheaper to build than conventional houses so not a lot gained there. Steel frame seems to be far more suitable for this climate than timber frame if it is eco friendly you are looking for.
> There are several options available for energy if you house is too remote for electricty to be installed.
> ...


Hi Veronica

Thanks for your replies. I love the look and feel of a log built house and also because I am eco friendly. We have seen land with no electricity which is ideal for us and our pets. We want cheap, long lasting, quick and eco friendly that is why we went for the log style house (not so much timber, we stayed in a log house and loved it). Any website/contacts would be appreciated.


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## junemichael (Jul 30, 2009)

junemichael said:


> Hi Veronica
> 
> Thanks for your replies. I love the look and feel of a log built house and also because I am eco friendly. We have seen land with no electricity which is ideal for us and our pets. We want cheap, long lasting, quick and eco friendly that is why we went for the log style house (not so much timber, we stayed in a log house and loved it). Any website/contacts would be appreciated.


Do you know if planning permission was quick for the timber houses?


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## Veronica (Apr 5, 2008)

junemichael said:


> Do you know if planning permission was quick for the timber houses?


The length of time it takes for planning permission can vary as so many factors need to be taken into consideration.
You also need to make sure that there are is a public road to the land before you buy it because if there is no public road you will not get planning permission.
Don't take the vendors word for it if there is a track and he says it is a public road.
Many unscrupulous agents or land owners will tell you this to get you to buy then when you apply for planning permission it can often turn out that it is for use of farmers to get to their land and not a public road at all. 
Before parting with a penny get a copy of the title deeds and topography of the land. Take it to an independant lawyer (not one recommended by the vendor) and get them to check whether planning permission to build on it is even possible.

Regards
Veronica


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## kimonas (Jul 19, 2008)

Veronica said:


> The length of time it takes for planning permission can vary as so many factors need to be taken into consideration.
> You also need to make sure that there are is a public road to the land before you buy it because if there is no public road you will not get planning permission.
> Don't take the vendors word for it if there is a track and he says it is a public road.
> Many unscrupulous agents or land owners will tell you this to get you to buy then when you apply for planning permission it can often turn out that it is for use of farmers to get to their land and not a public road at all.
> ...


Veronica is absolutely spot on regarding boundaries and access roads. We discovered that a significant portion of our plot had been taken over by small-holders on several boundaries and had a bit of a fight on our hands. The current fencing and roads bore no relation to the facts of surveyed ownership. The London Survey team (a necessary part of the planning permission) will come out for a fairly hefty fee and plot in temporary boundary irons with little red flags on them. We discovered our plot was significantly bigger than we expected. Others however, have found that their plot is significantly smaller than they expected. Neighbours then come along and pull them out to contest the boundary and you have to pay for the team to come out again to plot them in (witnessed by the local mayor etc) and so on. The survey team's services are normally free, but there is such a huge backlog of work (all the old records are being replotted and digitised island wide) that it is possible to queue jump by paying accredited private teams of qualified surveyors. We were told it would take up to five years for our plot to be surveyed if we waited for the standard service (and it is impossible to build without the accredited full land survey) - it will also reveal if there are any access right through or adjacent to the plot, and you need a public road adjacent to your plot in order to get permission to build.


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## junemichael (Jul 30, 2009)

Veronica said:


> Hi June, welcome to the forum.
> Are you asking these because you have a limited budget or because you want an eco friendly home?
> We know several people who live in timber framed houses here and they regret it as they say that the houses constantly creak and groan and feel very unstable underfoot. They are not a lot cheaper to build than conventional houses so not a lot gained there. Steel frame seems to be far more suitable for this climate than timber frame if it is eco friendly you are looking for.
> There are several options available for energy if you house is too remote for electricty to be installed.
> ...


How does photovoltaics work and is it expensive? Any links to websites that provide this service please? I am going in new with all of this so as much information would really be appreciated.


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## Veronica (Apr 5, 2008)

junemichael said:


> How does photovoltaics work and is it expensive? Any links to websites that provide this service please? I am going in new with all of this so as much information would really be appreciated.[/QUO
> 
> Photvoltaics are sophisticated solar panels which genertate electricity.
> The cost is somewhere between 10 and 15 thousand euros to install but you get half of that back from the government. You then basically have free electricity and if you are generatingmore than you need and there are electric poles nearby you can actually the excess electric the grid.
> ...


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## kimonas (Jul 19, 2008)

Veronica said:


> junemichael said:
> 
> 
> > How does photovoltaics work and is it expensive? Any links to websites that provide this service please? I am going in new with all of this so as much information would really be appreciated.[/QUO
> ...


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## Veronica (Apr 5, 2008)

Yes the roof tiles are hugely expensive but the normal panels which are mounted on post which follows the sun are reasonable. 
A log burning stove is great for heating etc but that wont help if you can't get electricity to the plot.
The other alternative for June would be a generator but these are not cheap to run.

June
Another thing which occurred to me is water. If you cannot get water from the nearest village then you will need to have water brought in. We know someone who has a house with no electric or water and they say the running costs for the generator and water are prohibitive.
They pay 70 euros for water every 6 weeks and then they have oil for the generator which is not cheap. Plus buying a generator in the first place is not cheap.
If you are in the hills away from civilisation you WILL need heating in the winter or you will be cold and miserable no matter what developers say.

Veronica


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## theresoon (Apr 11, 2008)

junemichael said:


> How does photovoltaics work and is it expensive? Any links to websites that provide this service please? I am going in new with all of this so as much information would really be appreciated.


You should visit the Ministry of Trade and Industry, Dept of Energy. That is what I did. I figured the cost for the Geothermal around 7k for an average house- it will keep the house at a constant temp. winter and summer. I am not sure my calculations for the photovoltaics are accurate. But costs have dropped considerably in the last year. I know of a company you can call if you are interested. Bear in mind that your cost will be higher if you are not connected to the grid as you'll need to store the energy. I am looking for a green architect so that the panels are part of the design rather than sticking out like the water tanks. I am having my dad- he is a land surveyor- call on ETEK to see if they are any in Cyprus. All engineering professionals have to be members of ETEK.
As for timber houses, coming from the US where a lot of houses are timber, I am used to the noises and I would rather have the noise rather than the hard floors of the houses here. Also, according to architects you have done both timber houses have close to perfect insulation 9 out 10 rating, while conventional Cypriot homes have a 5 out of 10. 

Totally agree with Kimonas and Veronica that you have to have the land surveyed and get an independent lawyer.

Good luck 

Dina


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## junemichael (Jul 30, 2009)

kimonas said:


> Veronica said:
> 
> 
> > We investigated photovoltaics through the annual Cyprus House exhibition at the International Fairground in Engomi. It is now possible to get roof tiles that are cells but they were enormously expensive as you need a huge number to generate enough electricity to service an average sized home. It would not have been economically viable for us (it almost doubled the cost of the build) - there is also a maximum government grant which is only payable within certain conditions that we didn't meet - we couldn't opt for the larger clumsy looking cells that one sometimes sees on advertising hordings or phone boxes because of planning resrictions. We opted for a slow burning wood burning stove which serves radiators with hot water and we recyle waste paper and cardboard to make briquettes for it. We also investigated geothermal, but the cost of the boreholes (which have to be very deep from our location) was way over the build budget. Advances are being made year on year with these technologies, I'd recommend a trip to the next exhibition. Does anybody know when the next one is on?
> ...


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## zeebo (Nov 15, 2009)

yo,

i don't like the way everything is concrete and cheesey here in CY BUT upon looking into the possibility of building a house it seems this is more likely a by-product of having to be earthquake proof.. something I had not even considered! 

I can see why the use reinforced conc everywhere now.. and would want it also!!


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## Veronica (Apr 5, 2008)

zeebo 
the concrete reinforced houses are built to remain standing in case of an earthquake. 
Steel frame houses are also earthquake proof up to force 8 earthquakes and there are now a few Cypriot companies who build steel frame. They are much better insulated than the concrete built houses.
The thing I dislike about the concrete construction is the amount of damp you get in them and as the Cypriot builders don't bother with damp proof courses you get rising damp. 

June for electricty you would need either a generator or photovoltaics.
If you opt for a generator, to run the amount of electrity you are talking about will be very expensive and you will need a very powerful generator and these are not cheap to buy. 
You really need to do some thorough research into which method is best and would work out more efficient and cost effective in the long run.
We have a house on our books which is run on a generator and they owners tell us they regret not going for photovoltaics as they find the cost of diesel for the generator very high. However as has been pointed out with photvoltaics you will also need to be able to store excess energy if you are not connceted to the grid and that adds to the cost although of course your electricity is totally free.

Veronica


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## junemichael (Jul 30, 2009)

Veronica said:


> zeebo
> the concrete reinforced houses are built to remain standing in case of an earthquake.
> Steel frame houses are also earthquake proof up to force 8 earthquakes and there are now a few Cypriot companies who build steel frame. They are much better insulated than the concrete built houses.
> The thing I dislike about the concrete construction is the amount of damp you get in them and as the Cypriot builders don't bother with damp proof courses you get rising damp.
> ...


Thank you again Veronica, you are so full of useful informatino. What do you mean 'store excess energy'? Why do we need to store it and how?


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## Veronica (Apr 5, 2008)

junemichael said:


> Thank you again Veronica, you are so full of useful informatino. What do you mean 'store excess energy'? Why do we need to store it and how?


Hmm not being technically minded I don't know the answer to that one. Just know you need some way of dealing with excess electricty you generate. (I think)
Why not google photovolatics in Cyprus and see if you can find a company who install it to answer your questions about it.
I know there is a company in the Paphos are called Ice Energy who do it.

Veronica


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## Veronica (Apr 5, 2008)

This link gives a list of companies in Cyprus who do photovoltaics.

Photovoltaic Module Businesses in Cyprus

It is a good to get quotes etc from several companies so you know you are not being ripped off.


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## theresoon (Apr 11, 2008)

junemichael said:


> Thank you again Veronica, you are so full of useful informatino. What do you mean 'store excess energy'? Why do we need to store it and how?


You store it in batteries. You need to store it as energy is produced when there is sun light- not at night. At night you use the excess and also on days without sunlight.

If you are in a valley you might be able to use a wind mill instead or in addition to the pvs.


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## Veronica (Apr 5, 2008)

theresoon said:


> You store it in batteries. You need to store it as energy is produced when there is sun light- not at night. At night you use the excess and also on days without sunlight.
> 
> If you are in a valley you might be able to use a wind mill instead or in addition to the pvs.


Of Course!!!!! Batteries!!!!! silly me


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## Veronica (Apr 5, 2008)

June, I think you will agree that as this thread goes on it is becoming more and more obvious that to live in the middle of nowhere is going to cost a fortune.
Whatever form of energy you opt for is going to be expensive to install, plus you will need to get tankers of water delivered on a regular basis. The big tanks you need to store that are also quite expensive.
The house we have for sale which has no electricity also has no mains water and they have two huge water tanks which get filled up every 6 weeks. If you have a lot of animals you will probably need water bringing more often than that.

Veronica


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## junemichael (Jul 30, 2009)

Veronica said:


> June, I think you will agree that as this thread goes on it is becoming more and more obvious that to live in the middle of nowhere is going to cost a fortune.
> Whatever form of energy you opt for is going to be expensive to install, plus you will need to get tankers of water delivered on a regular basis. The big tanks you need to store that are also quite expensive.
> The house we have for sale which has no electricity also has no mains water and they have two huge water tanks which get filled up every 6 weeks. If you have a lot of animals you will probably need water bringing more often than that.
> 
> Veronica


There is a well with a generator and pump which we were told would provide all the water we need as it has irrigation all over the land for the fruit trees. It also has a septic tank. At present it has 4 solar panels and batteries to store energy but this would not be enough for a house in constant use.


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## Veronica (Apr 5, 2008)

junemichael said:


> There is a well with a generator and pump which we were told would provide all the water we need as it has irrigation all over the land for the fruit trees. It also has a septic tank. At present it has 4 solar panels and batteries to store energy but this would not be enough for a house in constant use.


So does this mean there is already a house of sorts on the land? You have never mentioned that. It sounded as though it was just a piece of land with absolutely nothing there.


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## junemichael (Jul 30, 2009)

Veronica said:


> So does this mean there is already a house of sorts on the land? You have never mentioned that. It sounded as though it was just a piece of land with absolutely nothing there.


At river and a make shift house that is no good to live in but great for the animal house!


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