# Quality of life ? Canada uk



## simonlacey

Hi everyone, just at the last stages of our Twp , and after looking through all the threads and visiting Canada , we are trying to get our heads around this " quality of life thing" that everyone says is much better than uk. 
After comparing uk to Canada, apart from people are much friendlier in Canada , the uk always seems to come out better. 
Wages!
Holiday( vacation time)
Cost of food
Cost of cars and running costs insurance 
Utilities
Housing( remember I live in north Yorkshire not London )
Fuel is cheaper over there but when you consider most cars for sale in the forecourts only do around 22mpg ( that's for a focus not even a ram or ford 150) the cost per mile works out a lot more than uk cars as we drive more fuel efficient cars. 
It takes ages to get anywhere, roads are better in Canada though. 
Eating and drinking out in Canada is really expensive as well. 
The scenary is amazing in Canada that's for sure

I am just trying to figure out if we move from uk to Canada , for this better quality of life, surely all the above has some impact on that. 
Maybe I am wrong!
We have spent time all over the world lived in the states hong long Germany Ireland and uk. Army !
Please don't think I am dissing Canada 

Simon


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## Auld Yin

simonlacey said:


> Hi everyone, just at the last stages of our Twp , and after looking through all the threads and visiting Canada , we are trying to get our heads around this " quality of life thing" that everyone says is much better than uk.
> After comparing uk to Canada, apart from people are much friendlier in Canada , the uk always seems to come out better.
> Wages!
> Holiday( vacation time)
> Cost of food
> Cost of cars and running costs insurance
> Utilities
> Housing( remember I live in north Yorkshire not London )
> Fuel is cheaper over there but when you consider most cars for sale in the forecourts only do around 22mpg ( that's for a focus not even a ram or ford 150) the cost per mile works out a lot more than uk cars as we drive more fuel efficient cars.
> It takes ages to get anywhere, roads are better in Canada though.
> Eating and drinking out in Canada is really expensive as well.
> The scenary is amazing in Canada that's for sure
> 
> I am just trying to figure out if we move from uk to Canada , for this better quality of life, surely all the above has some impact on that.
> Maybe I am wrong!
> We have spent time all over the world lived in the states hong long Germany Ireland and uk. Army !
> Please don't think I am dissing Canada
> 
> Simon


Quality of life is an intangible and is measured differently by different people. I have read many posts about same and the consensus is re Canada that it's swings and roundabouts. If you're coming from a middle class living standard you won't see any difference.


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## Lindavid6

I feel I must add to Auld Yin's sentiments with the following observations on Canadian life:

Utilities are extremely cheap here probably 75% cheaper than in the UK
The HST rate is a lot less than the UK's 20% VAT, and in Alberta the 5% you pay is extremely cheap.
My income tax is a lot less here than I used to pay in the UK, and there's no national insurance as healthcare is paid for out of the HST.
My wage is actually more than I earned in the UK.
I work 37.5 hours a week and get Friday afternoons off as part of my contract.
The food thing is all relative, some things are a lot cheaper but some things are more expensive, that's because there's not a huge influx of cheap imported goods here as a lot of things we buy are farmed within Ontario. The real problem though is with the weak pound and the strong dollar which makes the exchange rate bad, when it used to be over 2 dollars to the pound things were a lot cheaper here, and anyway you get paid in dollars and not pounds so does to really matter?
The car you drive is a personal choice, not everyone drives a gas guzzling truck, I also know quite a few people in the UK who willingly buy vehicles with a MPG of around 22. The distance you travel here is greater as well. Yes car insurance is madly expensive is that a deal breaker?

I would rather have my 3 kids grow up here than the leafy shire county where i used to live, at least they can have a childhood, in a relatively safe country which offers them huge opportunities.

Moving to Canada is about making a future and an opportunity for yourself, and maybe that doesn't suit everybody's personal circumstances.

Apologies if I am ranting but I am very passionate about this place, and I am not even a Permanent Resident.


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## Cailleach

simonlacey said:


> Hi everyone, just at the last stages of our Twp , and after looking through all the threads and visiting Canada , we are trying to get our heads around this " quality of life thing" that everyone says is much better than uk.
> After comparing uk to Canada, apart from people are much friendlier in Canada , the uk always seems to come out better.
> Wages!
> Holiday( vacation time)
> Cost of food
> Cost of cars and running costs insurance
> Utilities
> Housing( remember I live in north Yorkshire not London )
> Fuel is cheaper over there but when you consider most cars for sale in the forecourts only do around 22mpg ( that's for a focus not even a ram or ford 150) the cost per mile works out a lot more than uk cars as we drive more fuel efficient cars.
> It takes ages to get anywhere, roads are better in Canada though.
> Eating and drinking out in Canada is really expensive as well.
> The scenary is amazing in Canada that's for sure
> 
> I am just trying to figure out if we move from uk to Canada , for this better quality of life, surely all the above has some impact on that.
> Maybe I am wrong!
> We have spent time all over the world lived in the states hong long Germany Ireland and uk. Army !
> Please don't think I am dissing Canada
> 
> Simon


Hello Simon,
I am a Canadian that spent 22 years in the UK (mainly Scotland) and returned to Canada two years ago. I was very interested to read your observations and I would agree with most of them. The only point you made that I was a bit dubious about was the cost of eating out, I believe that is still cheaper here than the UK (I lived all over Scotland but more recently in rural Perthshire.) 
I am not a typical Canadian, not rah rah flag waving, the best place on earth type (its says that on some of the BC registration plates), even though I live in B.C. I find things here at least as if not more expensive on a cost analysis. 
The quality of life people are talking about, greatly better............it may be that people are a little bit more laid back but I don't find them friendlier. For fear of being bombarded by irate Canadians, they are certainly friendlier on the surface, ie; casual meetings, in shops, bus shelters, etc., but much harder to know. I think Canada gets that reputation because people here are less formal than the UK, there is not so much of this what is the done thing and what is not. It has taken me two years and I still find people amazingly cheeky, asking personal questions when I don't know them, etc. So, friendlier yes but superficially, at least in my experience. The weather in B.C., Vancouver in particular, is milder in the main, very rainy but there seems to be more of a summer and a longer one. That positively affects the quality of life if you like warmth and all things out of doors. That is another aspect to the quality of life rating, you can feasibly spend more time outdoors doing lots of activities or just being. 
The other point in favour of the quality of life argument is opportunity. There are a great many more opportunities for the enterprising person here than there would be in the UK. People are much more accepting and even supportive of all kinds of, what appears at times, ludicrous enterprises. If you want to make a go of something new, start a new business, this is a good place to do it. Also, my husband is a stonemason (UK trained) and he says almost anyone can be a stonemason here, so that works both for and against someone as there are a lot of cowboys. 
So, you are right to consider the financial carefully and not just blindly accept propoganda, you come from a pretty good country too. I do believe, from everything I hear and read, that the UK is in more serious financial trouble just now than Canada. Canada's blandness has also been it's saving grace, adopting a very cautious approach that ultimately protected it from such a dramatic recession. 
I live in what is considered one of the most beautiful parts of Canada but I have to say, beauty is very subjective. I love rural Britain and for me, the beauty is unsurpassed but it's a personal choice. 
If you come, come with your eyes wide open. It is a young country, it has all the advantages and disadvantages of youth. 
I wish you wisdom in your decision and luck going forward.


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## carlb

simonlacey said:


> Hi everyone, just at the last stages of our Twp , and after looking through all the threads and visiting Canada , we are trying to get our heads around this " quality of life thing" that everyone says is much better than uk.
> After comparing uk to Canada, apart from people are much friendlier in Canada , the uk always seems to come out better.
> Wages!
> Holiday( vacation time)
> Cost of food
> Cost of cars and running costs insurance
> Utilities
> Housing( remember I live in north Yorkshire not London )
> Fuel is cheaper over there but when you consider most cars for sale in the forecourts only do around 22mpg ( that's for a focus not even a ram or ford 150) the cost per mile works out a lot more than uk cars as we drive more fuel efficient cars.
> It takes ages to get anywhere, roads are better in Canada though.
> Eating and drinking out in Canada is really expensive as well.
> The scenary is amazing in Canada that's for sure
> 
> I am just trying to figure out if we move from uk to Canada , for this better quality of life, surely all the above has some impact on that.
> Maybe I am wrong!
> We have spent time all over the world lived in the states hong long Germany Ireland and uk. Army !
> Please don't think I am dissing Canada
> 
> Simon


Allow me to do some ranting, I was born and raised in Canada, (BC to be exact), and overall, I do not find Canadians to be an anymore friendly than any anyone else, I have travelled extensively to the U.S. and Mexico, and if anyone is friendlier, its Mexicans. Sure there are friendly Canadians, like the waitress working for tips, or the cashier who is paid to be friendly, but how many friendly Canada customs agents have you met? Most Americans are friendly, despite what most Canucks will have you believe. Maybe Canadians who encounter rude Americans, are themselves rude, so they are just getting back what they put out, because I can't recall ever encountering a rude American. But I have encountered alot of rude Canadians, alot of them while travelling outside of Canada. Canadians love to bash Amercans, but given a choice of where to vacation, guess where they choose, or asked what their favourite TV show is, it's usually an American show. Canadians are two faced in alot of ways, what they say in public is alot different than what they say in private among their group of friends or co-workers etc. I hear the "N" word more in Canada than I have ever heard it in the U.S.. When an immigrant to Canada, who barely speaks english wins millions in the lottery, guess what is being said around the watercooler!
Canada does NOT have the best healthcare in the world, and to alot of people its not free, people, (at least in BC) are waiting months, if not years for some surgeries, Our politcal system leaves alot to be desired, and because they don't want to commit to a "set" election date, like maybe every 4 years, we have our 
4th federal election in the last 7 years coming up, (elections aren't cheap), so the leaders of the major political parties are having a national tv debate, but yet they are not allowing the leader of the "Green Party" to particapate, even though they have candidates running all across the country, but yet the leader of the Bloc Quebecios party is particapating even though they basically only represent the province of Quebec, . Is that really the democratic way? NO, but its the Canadian way. I could go on and on, but it won't do any good, so why bother, a few years from now we will be living in Mexico and enjoying our retirement, without having to worry about high taxes, high cost of living, dreary winters, and because we aren't invloved in drugs and won't be anywhere near a US/Mexico border town, we won't have to worry about being gunned downed or beheaded, so no one needs to make any comments relating to those issues, because for us, and the millions or so Canadian/American expats living full or part time in Mexico, it's a non issue. Adios Amigos!


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## kimo

carlb said:


> Allow me to do some ranting, I was born and raised in Canada, (BC to be exact), and overall, I do not find Canadians to be an anymore friendly than any anyone else, I have travelled extensively to the U.S. and Mexico, and if anyone is friendlier, its Mexicans. Sure there are friendly Canadians, like the waitress working for tips, or the cashier who is paid to be friendly, but how many friendly Canada customs agents have you met? Most Americans are friendly, despite what most Canucks will have you believe. Maybe Canadians who encounter rude Americans, are themselves rude, so they are just getting back what they put out, because I can't recall ever encountering a rude American. But I have encountered alot of rude Canadians, alot of them while travelling outside of Canada. Canadians love to bash Amercans, but given a choice of where to vacation, guess where they choose, or asked what their favourite TV show is, it's usually an American show. Canadians are two faced in alot of ways, what they say in public is alot different than what they say in private among their group of friends or co-workers etc. I hear the "N" word more in Canada than I have ever heard it in the U.S.. When an immigrant to Canada, who barely speaks english wins millions in the lottery, guess what is being said around the watercooler!
> Canada does NOT have the best healthcare in the world, and to alot of people its not free, people, (at least in BC) are waiting months, if not years for some surgeries, Our politcal system leaves alot to be desired, and because they don't want to commit to a "set" election date, like maybe every 4 years, we have our
> 4th federal election in the last 7 years coming up, (elections aren't cheap), so the leaders of the major political parties are having a national tv debate, but yet they are not allowing the leader of the "Green Party" to particapate, even though they have candidates running all across the country, but yet the leader of the Bloc Quebecios party is particapating even though they basically only represent the province of Quebec, . Is that really the democratic way? NO, but its the Canadian way. I could go on and on, but it won't do any good, so why bother, a few years from now we will be living in Mexico and enjoying our retirement, without having to worry about high taxes, high cost of living, dreary winters, and because we aren't invloved in drugs and won't be anywhere near a US/Mexico border town, we won't have to worry about being gunned downed or beheaded, so no one needs to make any comments relating to those issues, because for us, and the millions or so Canadian/American expats living full or part time in Mexico, it's a non issue. Adios Amigos!


Couldn't have said it better myself, Canadians, as a group, are no more polite than any other people, except maybe some of the expats on this forum, who I found to be very rude when they comment on negative things posted by people born/raised in Canada. If anyones allowed to negatively critisize anything Canada, it's the people who were born here, and who have lived here for all their lives. But someone who came here from say the U.K, shouldn't call a born/raised Canadian crazy for saying they don't like this or that about Canada. Maybe Canada is better than where you live now, but to alot of us, life in Canada leaves alot to be desired. Just check out the Mexico forum where you'll find alot of Canadian expats.


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## JimJams

I don't then think it matters where you live... life is always greener on the other side!


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## Goosie

The first thing I noticed on coming to Canada, was the distinct lack of pubs (compared with the UK)... Sure there are plenty downtown, but very scarse in the suburbs


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## kimo

Goosie said:


> The first thing I noticed on coming to Canada, was the distinct lack of pubs (compared with the UK)... Sure there are plenty downtown, but very scarse in the suburbs


Probably due to high beer prices, strict liquor licensing laws, high beers prices, drunk driving laws, high beers prices, did I already mention that, and the fact that its not part of most Canadians lifestyle to sit around and drink all day.


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## Canuck_Sens

Hi,

I have been to UK, Canada and US. This is what my experience tells me

1- US is the place where you get the most of your buck. You can do more with 1 USD in USD than in UK and Canada.

2- Public Services are better in Canada I find. Free Health plays a major role as we age. Of course it is not a bed of roses. If you are not in a big city you might have problems

3- I find Canadians more polite than Brits and Americans ( I might be biased)

4- Quality of life is something that you must want because if you don't what's the point? I lived in Ottawa and let me tell you I had a very good quality of life by far when compared to NY and London. but again, If I were able to "bike" in NYC and in London to go to Work I would also give a thumbs up. It sure depends how you define quality of life, though. 

5- Canada Sucks big time in taxes, BUT the social fairness is way better than US and UK. 

6- As for wages, you need to balance the public services you get in each country. You might make more in one country but pay lots for health insurance and your insurance might not cover some stuff you will need down the road.


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## PatrickB

simonlacey said:


> Hi everyone, just at the last stages of our Twp , and after looking through all the threads and visiting Canada , we are trying to get our heads around this " quality of life thing" that everyone says is much better than uk.
> After comparing uk to Canada, apart from people are much friendlier in Canada , the uk always seems to come out better.
> Wages!
> Holiday( vacation time)
> Cost of food
> Cost of cars and running costs insurance
> Utilities
> Housing( remember I live in north Yorkshire not London )
> Fuel is cheaper over there but when you consider most cars for sale in the forecourts only do around 22mpg ( that's for a focus not even a ram or ford 150) the cost per mile works out a lot more than uk cars as we drive more fuel efficient cars.
> It takes ages to get anywhere, roads are better in Canada though.
> Eating and drinking out in Canada is really expensive as well.
> The scenary is amazing in Canada that's for sure
> 
> I am just trying to figure out if we move from uk to Canada , for this better quality of life, surely all the above has some impact on that.
> Maybe I am wrong!
> We have spent time all over the world lived in the states hong long Germany Ireland and uk. Army !
> Please don't think I am dissing Canada
> 
> Simon


I'll dispute some of the areas in which the UK comes out better than Canada, at least based upon my own experiences in both countries.

Wages to me seem lower in the UK than in Canada, when not factoring in the exchange rate. On a pure "numbers" basis, we were paying employees in the UK numbers that were 1/3 of what we were paying staff in Canada (Canadian company). With the exchange rate at the time (roughly $2 CDN to 1 GBP), they balanced out more. Things may have changed in the past 4 years, however.

Vacation time is probably poorer. Usually it's about 2-3 weeks standard vacation time in Canada, but this can vary depending upon employer. Some will offer 4 weeks as standard vacation time. Still nothing like what you have in France, Italy or Brazil (7+ weeks, annually).

Cost of food I'd have to dispute as well. Food was generally pretty cheap in Canada. Dining out was almost always cheaper in Toronto than anytime I've dined out in London.

Cars (for some stupid reason) tend to be expensive in Canada, despite many Japanese and US car companies actually building their cars in Canada. This is admittedly one area in which Canadians get hosed. The same car can be purchased (often) for several thousand dollars less in the USA than the same car in Canada, even after you factor in the costs associated with bringing it across the border.

Insurance wasn't really all that bad though. Depending upon the vehicle, maybe $100 - $200 per month ($1200-2400 per year), and the driver. In Canada the insurance market is based upon a combination of the vehicle, and the driver.

Utilities are pretty cheap in Canada. Our 3-bedroom house that we had was roughly $70 for electricity every month, and an average of about $120 per month in natural gas for heating / hot water. Water was less than $20 / month.

Housing is the big one I would dispute, more than anything else. Compare London to Toronto. London is perpetually on the top 10 list of most expensive cities in the world. Toronto doesn't even rank. Yes, there are some expensive parts of Toronto, but you can still buy an average house in Toronto or the suburbs for under $300,000 CDN. Go farther out (within 1 hour of Toronto), and you can find nice, 3 bedroom homes for under $200,000.

As to fuel economy, well, you have to remember that Canada uses the US gallon (3.83 litres) as opposed to the Imperial gallon (4.54 litres), so that 22 mpg comparison is 22 miles per 3.83 litres, not 22 miles per 4.54 litres. There are several good, mid-sized family sedans that get more than 30 mpg in Canada. Also, there are few issues with parking, roads etc here compared to Europe (nobody charges you 5 GBP to drive your car into downtown Toronto, for example). 

You also have to remember that Canada is a big place too; second largest country in the world, and one of the most sparsely populated. So cost of living can vary wildly from one region to another, as does quality of life.

Quality of life is really defined by what you enjoy doing, and whether you can afford the lifestyle you're living. One can live very cheaply in Atlantic Canada, or Manitoba and Saskatchewan, but you may also be faced with some horrendous winters. You'll also find people who will bend over backwards to help you out in times of trouble, and the notion of locking your doors is rare.

I hated the winters in Canada (having grown up there, I had the better part of 40 years to develop my deep dislike for winter), and moved to the south of France when the opportunity presented itself. But I most definitely wouldn't say that our quality of life is better in France than it was in Canada....some ways yes, some ways no.

We'll move back to Canada in all likelihood, eventually. It's just "home".



Patrick


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## simonlacey

Hiya there ,I am not trying to diss Canada at all, just stating facts, the uk has over 60 million people who live there. And some times it feels as if everyone is in the traffic jams in front of you. 
London is one of the most expensive cities in the world , however over the past years, the cost of living in other countries has shot up. Ireland, most European countries, the states and Canada , have gone from being real value for money places , to very expensive. 
I have travelled to Ireland , France, turkey, the states , Canada and holland and we have noticed the cost of eating out, having a drink has more than doubled. 

Vacation time in Canada is really bad as is the states, regulary being a discussion by Canadians and yanks, they all moan about it. 
The cost of utilities are a lot more in Canada, electricity, gas, water are far cheaper in the uk, 
Gas (fuel) is cheaper in Canada, but the cost of cars is really expensive, I have a 2006 Nissan pathfinder top model, worth approx £11000 the same models in Canada, are around £17000. Cars used to be so much cheaper 7-10 years ago, when I first started traveling there, insurance is really expensive, I pay about £38 $ 60 a month for my vehicle, having spoken to friends in Canada, they are paying on average 3 times more than us. 
Apart from high performance models, hardly any cars in the uk or Europe return less than 40 mpg, with most modern diesel cars returning in excess of 60 mpg, my wife drives a new Audi a1 it does if she drives carefully over 75 mpg. 
It ends up working out cheaper in the uk price per mile, with all the factors taken into account. 
I find it strange that Canadians don't drive more efficient cars. Or more diesels? The audi's bmw's ford's nissan's Toyota's all have amazing tdi engines that out perform petrol cars easily. 

Why oh why when people talk about the uk they all reference London. 
London is an amazing city, one of the best in the world, amazing culture food , arts, history. But to be honest, the uk has so much more to give. 
I personally think they should ban cars from London, the transport system is ideal, if not a little( ha ha) packed. 
There is many many bad things with the uk just like Canada, mostly government policies. 
I do think though if we base it just on facts , Canada is far more expensive, four to five years ago was different but not now!
It is a shame because Canada is lovely the People we meet tend to be great, great lakes and mountains. 
I hope I haven't pissed to many people of.


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## PatrickB

simonlacey said:


> Hiya there ,I am not trying to diss Canada at all, just stating facts, the uk has over 60 million people who live there. And some times it feels as if everyone is in the traffic jams in front of you.
> London is one of the most expensive cities in the world , however over the past years, the cost of living in other countries has shot up. Ireland, most European countries, the states and Canada , have gone from being real value for money places , to very expensive.
> I have travelled to Ireland , France, turkey, the states , Canada and holland and we have noticed the cost of eating out, having a drink has more than doubled.
> 
> Vacation time in Canada is really bad as is the states, regulary being a discussion by Canadians and yanks, they all moan about it.
> The cost of utilities are a lot more in Canada, electricity, gas, water are far cheaper in the uk,
> Gas (fuel) is cheaper in Canada, but the cost of cars is really expensive, I have a 2006 Nissan pathfinder top model, worth approx £11000 the same models in Canada, are around £17000. Cars used to be so much cheaper 7-10 years ago, when I first started traveling there, insurance is really expensive, I pay about £38 $ 60 a month for my vehicle, having spoken to friends in Canada, they are paying on average 3 times more than us.
> Apart from high performance models, hardly any cars in the uk or Europe return less than 40 mpg, with most modern diesel cars returning in excess of 60 mpg, my wife drives a new Audi a1 it does if she drives carefully over 75 mpg.
> It ends up working out cheaper in the uk price per mile, with all the factors taken into account.
> I find it strange that Canadians don't drive more efficient cars. Or more diesels? The audi's bmw's ford's nissan's Toyota's all have amazing tdi engines that out perform petrol cars easily.
> 
> Why oh why when people talk about the uk they all reference London.
> London is an amazing city, one of the best in the world, amazing culture food , arts, history. But to be honest, the uk has so much more to give.
> I personally think they should ban cars from London, the transport system is ideal, if not a little( ha ha) packed.
> There is many many bad things with the uk just like Canada, mostly government policies.
> I do think though if we base it just on facts , Canada is far more expensive, four to five years ago was different but not now!
> It is a shame because Canada is lovely the People we meet tend to be great, great lakes and mountains.
> I hope I haven't pissed to many people of.


To be honest, those same diesels that we get here in Europe just aren't available in Canada, largely due to lack of demand. The Volkswagen Jetta TDI is one of the few available. Some new Mercedes and BMW diesels are starting to make their way onto the Canadian marketplace, but this is a trend only in the past couple of years.

And as I said, you have to consider that the UK gallon is larger than the US gallon (which is what Canadian vehicles are measured in....though in Canada we actually use L/100km instead).

I'm not sure why you think housing is so expensive in Canada compared to Europe....where in Canada are you looking?? Canada is more than just Toronto and Vancouver, so if you're going to look at those two cities, then London is the fair comparison. If you're going to compare something like Bournemouth or elsewhere, then you need to consider more rural centres in Canada some distance away from Toronto or Vancouver as well.

I keep a close eye on Canadian real estate (I'm probably house-shopping on MLS.ca daily), and one can buy an awful lot more house in Canada than one can in Europe (for example, our house in France is 130 sq metres or roughly 1400 square feet). In Canada, for the same money (not even including exchange rate) I could purchase a house (in a Toronto suburb) roughly 2-3 times the size (2800 - 3500 square feet, plus a full basement).

As to cars, I agree...Canadians get hosed on the price of cars. Those are generally outrageous.

You say you're stating the facts, but I'm just not sure what facts you're stating, since they don't seem to have any basis in well, fact. At least with regards to house prices compared to global hotspots (of which London is one).



Patrick


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## simonlacey

I do agree with you regarding housing, sorry I should have stated that, London is ridiculous, I live in Yorkshire, in a very large 4 bed farmhouse, we also have a 2 bed semi that we rent out, our friends live in a very small flat in London, for expensive money. Very crazy. 
We constantly check house prices we have looked in the okanagan area, they are very competitive, you do get a lot of house for your money in Canada I would agree. 
However you want good value for money , Florida is unbelievable at the moment 2001/2 prices at the moment. 
I would love to be able to pick certain things from Europe and Canada and create my own country. 
Sounds like a bond villain ha ha
I do like dodge ram's, ford 150, chevorlet cammaro. Love skidoo's and your steaks are amazing. 

Simon


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## carlb

PatrickB said:


> I'll dispute some of the areas in which the UK comes out better than Canada, at least based upon my own experiences in both countries.
> 
> Wages to me seem lower in the UK than in Canada, when not factoring in the exchange rate. On a pure "numbers" basis, we were paying employees in the UK numbers that were 1/3 of what we were paying staff in Canada (Canadian company). With the exchange rate at the time (roughly $2 CDN to 1 GBP), they balanced out more. Things may have changed in the past 4 years, however.
> 
> Vacation time is probably poorer. Usually it's about 2-3 weeks standard vacation time in Canada, but this can vary depending upon employer. Some will offer 4 weeks as standard vacation time. Still nothing like what you have in France, Italy or Brazil (7+ weeks, annually).
> 
> Cost of food I'd have to dispute as well. Food was generally pretty cheap in Canada. Dining out was almost always cheaper in Toronto than anytime I've dined out in London.
> 
> Cars (for some stupid reason) tend to be expensive in Canada, despite many Japanese and US car companies actually building their cars in Canada. This is admittedly one area in which Canadians get hosed. The same car can be purchased (often) for several thousand dollars less in the USA than the same car in Canada, even after you factor in the costs associated with bringing it across the border.
> 
> Insurance wasn't really all that bad though. Depending upon the vehicle, maybe $100 - $200 per month ($1200-2400 per year), and the driver. In Canada the insurance market is based upon a combination of the vehicle, and the driver.
> 
> Utilities are pretty cheap in Canada. Our 3-bedroom house that we had was roughly $70 for electricity every month, and an average of about $120 per month in natural gas for heating / hot water. Water was less than $20 / month.
> 
> Housing is the big one I would dispute, more than anything else. Compare London to Toronto. London is perpetually on the top 10 list of most expensive cities in the world. Toronto doesn't even rank. Yes, there are some expensive parts of Toronto, but you can still buy an average house in Toronto or the suburbs for under $300,000 CDN. Go farther out (within 1 hour of Toronto), and you can find nice, 3 bedroom homes for under $200,000.
> 
> As to fuel economy, well, you have to remember that Canada uses the US gallon (3.83 litres) as opposed to the Imperial gallon (4.54 litres), so that 22 mpg comparison is 22 miles per 3.83 litres, not 22 miles per 4.54 litres. There are several good, mid-sized family sedans that get more than 30 mpg in Canada. Also, there are few issues with parking, roads etc here compared to Europe (nobody charges you 5 GBP to drive your car into downtown Toronto, for example).
> 
> You also have to remember that Canada is a big place too; second largest country in the world, and one of the most sparsely populated. So cost of living can vary wildly from one region to another, as does quality of life.
> 
> Quality of life is really defined by what you enjoy doing, and whether you can afford the lifestyle you're living. One can live very cheaply in Atlantic Canada, or Manitoba and Saskatchewan, but you may also be faced with some horrendous winters. You'll also find people who will bend over backwards to help you out in times of trouble, and the notion of locking your doors is rare.
> 
> I hated the winters in Canada (having grown up there, I had the better part of 40 years to develop my deep dislike for winter), and moved to the south of France when the opportunity presented itself. But I most definitely wouldn't say that our quality of life is better in France than it was in Canada....some ways yes, some ways no.
> 
> We'll move back to Canada in all likelihood, eventually. It's just "home".
> 
> 
> 
> Patrick


Vacation time in Canada depends alot on weather you are in management or just a regular worker, and have a union job or not, most people I know who are in a union have 5-8 weeks holidays a year, while those non union have 2-4, depending on how long they have been with the employer. Canada does NOT use the U.S gallon, it uses liters. if we use any gallon, its the imperial gallon (4.5ltrs=1 gallon) Which is what was used before changing to liters. Canada does not use MPG, it uses liters per 100km. Re car insurance, We have 2 -2010 cars, with no previous insurance claims, and each cost about $1100 per year to insure, (in BC).


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## simonlacey

Mpg and litres , how ever you want to quantify it, it remains the same. in the uk, we have switched to litres, but and this is the big but, quoting in mpg as opposed to litres , the vehicles still only do the same. Re: insurance $ 1100 approx is still expensive. 
That's nearly double the equivalent insurance in the uk. 
When you work out cost per litres / miles. It is really expensive. 
I never understand why you don't have more economical cars, 4x4 etc. It would save you all a fortune, especially with the distances you cover. 
I would say though that, I drive a diesel 4x4, just to get better fuel consumption. 
We won't start another discussion on the best cars / 4x4 between us though. As I know it would be unfair to you guys ha ha. 

Simon


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## kimo

simonlacey said:


> Mpg and litres , how ever you want to quantify it, it remains the same. in the uk, we have switched to litres, but and this is the big but, quoting in mpg as opposed to litres , the vehicles still only do the same. Re: insurance $ 1100 approx is still expensive.
> That's nearly double the equivalent insurance in the uk.
> When you work out cost per litres / miles. It is really expensive.
> I never understand why you don't have more economical cars, 4x4 etc. It would save you all a fortune, especially with the distances you cover.
> I would say though that, I drive a diesel 4x4, just to get better fuel consumption.
> We won't start another discussion on the best cars / 4x4 between us though. As I know it would be unfair to you guys ha ha.
> 
> Simon


Just out of curiousity, what type of cars do you think us guys drive?, the most popular cars in Canada are Toyotas or Hondas, I have been driving for over 35 years, and have always only owned 4 cylinder cars. Most who drive gas guzzling 4x4's or big SUV's do so out of necessatey and/or because of their ego and don't care about mpg's. Canada also has vehicle safety standards that limit what vehicles can be imported into the country. Some of the most fuel efficiant cars in the world can't be sold in Canada because they don't meet the safety standards.


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## simonlacey

I understand the importance of a 4x4 I drive one and when it snows or is icy, I would not get anywhere if I did not have one, and Canada has a lot worse winters than us, I just find that all the small cars over there are all full power, 2.0 - 2.5 litre petrol( gas) engines, of which produce terrible co2. 
Regarding safety of cars, the states produce the worst cars in the world, when it comes to quality, safety, co2, handling and build quality. 
Nothing beats a range rover, BMW m3, Audi, Aston Martin.


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## JimJams

simonlacey said:


> Nothing beats a range rover, BMW m3, Audi, Aston Martin.


But they beat the hell outta your wallet!!!

But I can imagine the necessity for a good 4x4 out in Canada... not sure it is entirely necessary in most parts of good old USA!


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## simonlacey

I understand the importance of a 4x4 I drive one and when it snows or is icy, I would not get anywhere if I did not have one, and Canada has a lot worse winters than us, I just find that all the small cars over there are all full power, 2.0 - 2.5 litre petrol( gas) engines, of which produce terrible co2. 
Regarding safety of cars, the states produce the worst cars in the world, when it comes to quality, safety, co2, handling and build quality. 
Nothing beats a range rover, BMW m3, Audi, Aston Martin.


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## simonlacey

American were always much cheaper but not any more, shame! Wish we had you gas prices though,!


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## PatrickB

carlb said:


> Vacation time in Canada depends alot on weather you are in management or just a regular worker, and have a union job or not, most people I know who are in a union have 5-8 weeks holidays a year, while those non union have 2-4, depending on how long they have been with the employer. Canada does NOT use the U.S gallon, it uses liters. if we use any gallon, its the imperial gallon (4.5ltrs=1 gallon) Which is what was used before changing to liters. Canada does not use MPG, it uses liters per 100km. Re car insurance, We have 2 -2010 cars, with no previous insurance claims, and each cost about $1100 per year to insure, (in BC).


I don't know anyone in Canada with 8 weeks of vacation per year, unless they were a teacher (or a politician!), but I don't hang around with many union types. So that's entirely possible.

Canada semi-officially used the Imperial gallon, but due to the close proximity of the US, more often than not MPG ratings were miles per US gallon, since the advertising tended to match up with what our American brethren were using. Anyone I speak to now (that still remembers MPG) goes with miles per US gallon in their calculations, rather than miles per Imp. gallon (and I still know very few people who really use L/100km).

Back to insurance, this can vary wildly across Canada. It's fully privatized in Alberta and Ontario, but BC previously (not sure about the current status) gov't provided vehicle insurance, which kept rates low. Saskatchewan still does (you still see an awful lot of Sask. plates driving around Calgary....)

I never thought of insurance as expensive in Canada, but if it's double what someone pays in the UK, then yes, insurance would be expensive in Canada.


Patrick


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