# Thinking about Moving to Al Ahyaa



## movinghome

I'm a UK expat (female in late 40s) currently living and working in Switzerland. I've been trying to find another job for a year with no success (unhappy in my current one) but think I have enough money to live independently in Egypt. Specifically, at the moment, I am thinking about Al Ahyaa.

What are the views of those currently living in Egypt about the political situation and how it might affect those in the more European/touristy areas of Egypt? On the one hand, I think they need the jobs and so building and development etc will continue. On the other hand, they don't have the money and the MB may be antagonistic to any developments involving foreigners (is this suspicion about the MB attirude correct?) and so all building and development here may stop. 

Why was the Carrefour burned down in 2011 - was it because it symbolised foreign influence or was it just a random target? It just seemed a bit self-destructive to me, but I guess these things are always a bit mindless wherever you are.

I'm only just starting to look into this, so don't shoot me! Thanks for any input.


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## hurghadapat

movinghome said:


> I'm a UK expat (female in late 40s) currently living and working in Switzerland. I've been trying to find another job for a year with no success (unhappy in my current one) but think I have enough money to live independently in Egypt. Specifically, at the moment, I am thinking about Al Ahyaa.
> 
> What are the views of those currently living in Egypt about the political situation and how it might affect those in the more European/touristy areas of Egypt? On the one hand, I think they need the jobs and so building and development etc will continue. On the other hand, they don't have the money and the MB may be antagonistic to any developments involving foreigners (is this suspicion about the MB attirude correct?) and so all building and development here may stop.
> 
> Why was the Carrefour burned down in 2011 - was it because it symbolised foreign influence or was it just a random target? It just seemed a bit self-destructive to me, but I guess these things are always a bit mindless wherever you are.
> 
> I'm only just starting to look into this, so don't shoot me! Thanks for any input.
> 
> Hi and welcome to the forum. Al Ahyaa is in the Red Sea area and near to Hurghada...are you planning on renting or buying ? Personally i would never buy in Egypt country to unstable for my liking....but there will be a few who will disagree  I cannot see the tourist trade improving for quite some time (have just heard today that another hotel in Hurghada has closed).Hopefully when Cairo wakens up some one will be on to answer more of your questions.


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## movinghome

Thanks for the welcome, hughadapat. I'm currently thinking of buying, but had also wondered whether to rent and then buy if I am happy to stay there. Also trying to consider the pros and cons of buying now with the prospect of inflation or later with the prospect of currency devaluation (I guess inflation and currency devaluation kind of equal each other out!). 

I take it you were in Hurghada and moved back to the UK - was that because you felt it was too risky to stay, even in the Red Sea area? Thanks!

I'll check back this evening to see if anyone has replied. Thanks again!


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## Gounie

If you can afford it, maybe rent in El Gouna first if you are on your own. Do you know the area well? I bought my place in El Gouna ten years ago and have loved every minute of living here full time but I don't think I would enjoy living in Al Ahyaa. I appreciate the apartments are very cheap but I think they will remain that way and everyone is attracted to buying off-plan so there should always be a resale bargain to be had. Not sure what the future holds in Egypt nor the attitude towards woman living on their own. There are many of us living very happily in El Gouna but it is expensive.


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## hurghadapat

movinghome said:


> Thanks for the welcome, hughadapat. I'm currently thinking of buying, but had also wondered whether to rent and then buy if I am happy to stay there. Also trying to consider the pros and cons of buying now with the prospect of inflation or later with the prospect of currency devaluation (I guess inflation and currency devaluation kind of equal each other out!).
> 
> I take it you were in Hurghada and moved back to the UK - was that because you felt it was too risky to stay, even in the Red Sea area? Thanks!
> 
> I'll check back this evening to see if anyone has replied. Thanks again!


No i moved back to the UK because i had my fill of Egypt and Red Sea area becomes very boring as only so much sun and sand you can take....going to the beach every day becomes boring....trying to get anything done is a nightmare and also never gets done properly....they are constantly trying to rip you off....egyptians do it to each other so what chance does a foreigner stand...lol could go on and on 
I see Gounie has also replied now where she lives is very nice and clean but also expensive and is also owned by a company...imho very nice for visiting now and again but it is not egypt but there again very much depends on what sort of life style you want.Come out and rent for quite awhile,i would say for at least a year then see how you feel and believe me there are plenty of rental properties to be had.Please do your research well before committing yourself also egypt is not as cheap as you would think and certainly not if you want to maintain a good lifestyle,anyway good luck in whatever you decide to do.


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## mamasue

Hi, and welcome!
have you actually been to Egypt, or did you go before, and fall in love with the place?
it's just that most people hat have been and want to move choose Sharm or Hurghada.
I just wondered why Al Ahyaa.?
I totally agree with Pat...Egypt becomes tiresome after a while....I made it to 5 years!
Buying before you're fully settled is a bad idea.... in fact buying is a bad idea altogether.... people get stuck with properties they don't want.
When I moved to Egypt, my plan was "Go home after a week, stay the rest of my life, or something in between."
The first couple of years (I was working as a diving instructor) I thought I was living in the best place in the world, with the best job in the world....
By year 5, I couldn't wait to get away.....I was so happy I didn't have any 'investments' to unload!


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## Gounie

hurghadapat said:


> No i moved back to the UK because i had my fill of Egypt and Red Sea area becomes very boring as only so much sun and sand you can take....going to the beach every day becomes boring....trying to get anything done is a nightmare and also never gets done properly....they are constantly trying to rip you off....egyptians do it to each other so what chance does a foreigner stand...lol could go on and on


These are the reasons I love El Gouna and recommend it to women who wish to live alone. Call maintenance and a plumber, electrician or carpenter arrives within one hour and a small job costs LE25. Shop owners are not allowed to hassle you. And plenty of things to do. I am currently doing an intensive Ashtanga yoga course over four days. We have a residents diving club and meet regularly for social events to restaurants, days out, parties at villas, etc. Swimming in the lagoons during the summertime, boat rental, gyms with different exercise classes like spinning, pilates, step aerobics, opera season live from New York at the Berlin Technische Universitat El Gouna Campus, just to name a few things. And my latest hobby which I love and has kept me amused for months and only cost LE200 is my bicycle:
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10151233664488255.512386.665383254&type=1&l=707305fcd4


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## MaidenScotland

Rent rent rent... 


Goonie seems to have the best of the red sea however I know two people who live right on the lagoon and cannot sell their villa... 

It is only an investment if you can off load later and no one has any idea what will happen politically in the years to come.


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## speedwing

Hi, I live in Al Ahyaa and have done for nearly 4 years, best of both worlds really, if I want the El Gouna lifesyle it's only 20 mins away and for the Egyptian lifestyle the same amount of time. Sorry Gounie but I prefer the Egyptian way...I live in a complex, so like Gounie anything that is needed to be done can be handled by the management team here, also if you are on your own I would reccomend a community based devolpment rather than being isolated. Like everyone else said, please rent first as it is a lifestyle that you adapt to or not and if not you do not need a property that in this market you will not be able to sell easily. As for the political future, who knows?? but nothing really happened here during the uprising, if it wasn't for TV wouldn't have even known it was going on!! Last of all, do your research, ask questions and decide what type of life style you are looking for. Good Luck....


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## canuck2010

From what I found, there are many empty places in El Gouna at the moment and rents are negotiable. Spent about three weeks there last year, very nice. Keep your money safe!


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## movinghome

*Thanks*

Thanks everyone for replying so far. Maybe I should rent, based on all your comments. It might actually make it easier for me financially too, although if inflation hits, I guess rents could go up quite a bit over the next few years. Glad to hear that in Al Ahyaa you didn't really notice anything politically - that's what I'd heard was also the case in Sharm el Sheikh and had hoped this was true generally away from Cairo. 

Does renting have any impact on your ability to get a visa/permit (do you need a visa and a permit - I've seen both referred to and am not sure if they are separate things)?

I've been to Egypt several times (Aswan, Luxor, Sharm x 3, Taba) - was looking at Al Ahyaa because it is cheaper (will do a visit, obviously) and allegedly being designed for Europeans (thus making the adjustment to the new life a bit easier) but was a bit worried about whether it looks too much like a building site and would therefore be a bit depressing. But that's for me to find out about and decide, I guess. I've settled on Egypt mostly because it is affordable, not so far to go back to Europe for the occasional trip, and I've been there quite a lot (for me), so at least I'm familiar with the hassling etc (not the same as liking it, obviously, but it won't be a shock to me).

My current life doesn't give me time to do all the things I want to do (mostly swimming, gym, writing and researching - I'm fairly easily pleased!). I do wonder if I will be bored, but I also think I may as well try it and see, since I've gone on forever to friends and colleagues about wanting more time to do all this. I'm usually full of little projects I want to do, so I think I will be happy enough, but you never know until you try. I'm budgeting about £10k GBP as living expenses per annum (this is what someone claimed would give me a good lifestyle when I was last over).


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## MaidenScotland

movinghome said:


> Thanks everyone for replying so far. Maybe I should rent, based on all your comments. It might actually make it easier for me financially too, although if inflation hits, I guess rents could go up quite a bit over the next few years. Glad to hear that in Al Ahyaa you didn't really notice anything politically - that's what I'd heard was also the case in Sharm el Sheikh and had hoped this was true generally away from Cairo.
> 
> Does renting have any impact on your ability to get a visa/permit (do you need a visa and a permit - I've seen both referred to and am not sure if they are separate things)?
> 
> I've been to Egypt several times (Aswan, Luxor, Sharm x 3, Taba) - was looking at Al Ahyaa because it is cheaper (will do a visit, obviously) and allegedly being designed for Europeans (thus making the adjustment to the new life a bit easier) but was a bit worried about whether it looks too much like a building site and would therefore be a bit depressing. But that's for me to find out about and decide, I guess. I've settled on Egypt mostly because it is affordable, not so far to go back to Europe for the occasional trip, and I've been there quite a lot (for me), so at least I'm familiar with the hassling etc (not the same as liking it, obviously, but it won't be a shock to me).
> 
> My current life doesn't give me time to do all the things I want to do (mostly swimming, gym, writing and researching - I'm fairly easily pleased!). I do wonder if I will be bored, but I also think I may as well try it and see, since I've gone on forever to friends and colleagues about wanting more time to do all this. I'm usually full of little projects I want to do, so I think I will be happy enough, but you never know until you try. I'm budgeting about £10k GBP as living expenses per annum (this is what someone claimed would give me a good lifestyle when I was last over).





Was reading through the post and thought well thought out until I came to the 10k for a good lifestyle.. I don't know the prices down that way but 10k will never give you a decent lifestyle in Cairo unless you call life on falafel and rice a good meal and I suspect it will not be much different down on the Red Sea.. 

today,, chicken thighs.. which I would throw out in the UK.. 24LE a kilo. 

long life milk.. 8le 

toast bread 8 le


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## CAIRODEMON

movinghome said:


> I'm a UK expat (female in late 40s) currently living and working in Switzerland. I've been trying to find another job for a year with no success (unhappy in my current one) but think I have enough money to live independently in Egypt. Specifically, at the moment, I am thinking about Al Ahyaa.
> 
> What are the views of those currently living in Egypt about the political situation and how it might affect those in the more European/touristy areas of Egypt? On the one hand, I think they need the jobs and so building and development etc will continue. On the other hand, they don't have the money and the MB may be antagonistic to any developments involving foreigners (is this suspicion about the MB attirude correct?) and so all building and development here may stop.
> 
> Why was the Carrefour burned down in 2011 - was it because it symbolised foreign influence or was it just a random target? It just seemed a bit self-destructive to me, but I guess these things are always a bit mindless wherever you are.
> 
> I'm only just starting to look into this, so don't shoot me! Thanks for any input.


Carrefour was not burned to the ground. It was looted and suffered some fire damage, as did several shops in the complex. It was simply an opportunity theft on a grand scale and had nothing to do with foreign ownership.


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## CAIRODEMON

MaidenScotland said:


> Was reading through the post and thought well thought out until I came to the 10k for a good lifestyle.. I don't know the prices down that way but 10k will never give you a decent lifestyle in Cairo unless you call life on falafel and rice a good meal and I suspect it will not be much different down on the Red Sea..
> 
> today,, chicken thighs.. which I would throw out in the UK.. 24LE a kilo.
> 
> long life milk.. 8le
> 
> toast bread 8 le


I agree, one person's version of a good lifestyle may well vary considerably with someone else's view but I would have thought that you would need about twice the figure that you have been quoted.


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## Gounie

I have lived here all these years just renewing my annual tourist visa each year. You also need the entry/exit visa to get in and out.

Is the £10k per year assuming you had bought a place outright and not paying rent? Remember the averages wages in Egypt are very low and a good wage is £1k per year.

The total annual running costs of my small open plan apartment are around £500 per year including gas, electricity, water, TV, maintenance, security, garbage, etc. etc. However, my apartment is lovely and cool in the summer so I never have the a.c. going all night which would pump up the bills a lot. That maintenance fee doesn't include major outside work to the building and there is no swimming pool to upkeep as we are on the lagoon.


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## MaidenScotland

Gounie said:


> I have lived here all these years just renewing my annual tourist visa each year. You also need the entry/exit visa to get in and out.
> 
> Is the £10k per year assuming you had bought a place outright and not paying rent? Remember the averages wages in Egypt are very low and a good wage is £1k per year.
> 
> The total annual running costs of my small open plan apartment are around £500 per year including gas, electricity, water, TV, maintenance, security, garbage, etc. etc. However, my apartment is lovely and cool in the summer so I never have the a.c. going all night which would pump up the bills a lot. That maintenance fee doesn't include major outside work to the building and there is no swimming pool to upkeep as we are on the lagoon.




and who would want to live like the average Egyptian? Living overseas and lowering your standards regardless of the endless sun is IMHO a crazy idea.


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## Gounie

MaidenScotland said:


> and who would want to live like the average Egyptian? Living overseas and lowering your standards regardless of the endless sun is IMHO a crazy idea.


I don't think it is about standards but lifestyle. I live on around £10,000 because I bought my apartment and would have paid more in the ten years if I had rented and I hope to stay for the next ten. Certainly never bought to sell. I don't need a car where I live but in Al Ahyaa maybe you do, though you can rely easily on the El Gouna bus that runs regularly between El Gouna and Hurghada and only costs LE3 for residents.

Outdoor lifestyle (I don't do sun anymore but enjoy the shade), healthy eating with cheap fresh fruit and vegetables and without the temptation of processed ready meals. I don't eat out a lot, maybe once or twice a week as I enjoy the food I cook, so maybe for a pizza or Vietnemese takeaway which are cheap. There are fantastic restaurants in Hurghada off the beaten tourist track that are cheap and the price not inflated like the seafood restaurant opposite the fish market that costs around LE40 for fish soup, salads, dips, calamari, fish fillet and prawns with rice and bread. Parties at villas and apartments with views over Red Sea. Fresh, clean air! The amazing underwater world on your doorstep.


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## MaidenScotland

Gounie said:


> I don't think it is about standards but lifestyle. I live on around £10,000 because I bought my apartment and would have paid more in the ten years if I had rented and I hope to stay for the next ten. Certainly never bought to sell. I don't need a car where I live but in Al Ahyaa maybe you do, though you can rely easily on the El Gouna bus that runs regularly between El Gouna and Hurghada and only costs LE3 for residents.
> 
> Outdoor lifestyle (I don't do sun anymore but enjoy the shade), healthy eating with cheap fresh fruit and vegetables and without the temptation of processed ready meals. I don't eat out a lot, maybe once or twice a week as I enjoy the food I cook, so maybe for a pizza or Vietnemese takeaway which are cheap. There are fantastic restaurants in Hurghada off the beaten tourist track that are cheap and the price not inflated like the seafood restaurant opposite the fish market that costs around LE40 for fish soup, salads, dips, calamari, fish fillet and prawns with rice and bread. Parties at villas and apartments with views over Red Sea. Fresh, clean air! The amazing underwater world on your doorstep.




I think I need to move..

cup of green tea and a slice of cake... 50 LE Beanos yesterday


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## canuck2010

Oh wow, I was just at Beanos and they charged me 20le for a take-away cappuccino. Should have stuck to cafe greco.


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## hurghadapat

MaidenScotland said:


> I think I need to move..
> 
> cup of green tea and a slice of cake... 50 LE Beanos yesterday


I know the restaurant Gounie is talking about...yes cheap and food not bad but really not your style Chris


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## movinghome

I'm surprised people don't think that £10k GBP per annum is enough. Especially since apparently the average Egyptian lives on only 1k GBP (10k LE). Did my GBP get unnoticed?


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## hurghadapat

movinghome said:


> I'm surprised people don't think that £10k GBP per annum is enough. Especially since apparently the average Egyptian lives on only 1k GBP (10k LE). Did my GBP get unnoticed?


Do you know what the average egyptian lives on food wise....and have you seen the sort of houses that most of them live in.Believe me you really wouldn't want to live like the average egyptian...if foul and tamayeh is your idea of a good meal then yes you can live cheaply and no don't think anyone missed the GBP.


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## movinghome

Obviously, I don't know, but I'd be interested to know a rough breakdown (given that my ten times more than the average Egyptian still isn't enough) per month. I thought the following was a generous estimate, but I've obviously got it horribly wrong:

Per month
Food (for home): 400 LE
Utilities: 800 LE
Internet: 200 LE
Entertainment (local travel, eating out, coffee out): 800 LE
Total = 2200 LE per month (around 220 GBP)

I'd be grateful for correction, just so that I know what to expect. Thanks to everyone for your patience!


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## speedwing

Hi Movinghome, as for your breakdown:
Food: More than enough, don't forget to buy fresh veg and fruit from the market, half the price of supermarkets
Utilities: Well over the top and I pay for shipped in water
Internet: 50 LE over the top
Entertainment: Don't know what your lifestyle would be so can't really comment
It really is what you make of it and what type of lifestyle you want, good luck in what you decide


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## canuck2010

Just be aware the that currency has depreciated about 5% in the span of a month, and inflation is running over 10%, so prices of most things are increasing on a weekly basis. Also what about health insurance?


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## mamasue

hurghadapat said:


> I know the restaurant Gounie is talking about...yes cheap and food not bad but really not your style Chris


I think the one you're talking about is called something like Summerland? I used to get a salad, spaghetti bolognaise, and a coke for 10 le.....Loads of divers went there...I'm sure things have changed! 

Cheap food, absolutely no atmosphere, no tourists, but I never good food poisoning!!


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## mamasue

movinghome said:


> Obviously, I don't know, but I'd be interested to know a rough breakdown (given that my ten times more than the average Egyptian still isn't enough) per month. I thought the following was a generous estimate, but I've obviously got it horribly wrong:
> 
> Per month
> Food (for home): 400 LE
> Utilities: 800 LE
> Internet: 200 LE
> Entertainment (local travel, eating out, coffee out): 800 LE
> Total = 2200 LE per month (around 220 GBP)
> 
> I'd be grateful for correction, just so that I know what to expect. Thanks to everyone for your patience!


How about rent??


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## Gounie

mamasue said:


> I think the one you're talking about is called something like Summerland?


No but I have been to Summerland many years ago in Sakkala.

The restaurants in El Gouna are very expensive so I enjoy a trip to Hurghada to pay Egyptian prices. There are many restaurants serving excellent food. The fish restaurant I was referring to overlooks the enormous new mosque outside Hurghada Marina.

It's just an example.

There are great alternatives to Costa Coffe too


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## MaidenScotland

mamasue said:


> How about rent??




Health insurance..


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## MaidenScotland

No one who just moves to Egypt has the street savvy to stop being ripped off.. all my years here and I still get ripped off, so do not expect to pay Egyptian prices just because you have moved in and have a residents permit.. your first year will see you a walking ATM.. as you will pay through the nose for everything.


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## MaidenScotland

I am a non smoker, very much against smoking and that is one of the reasons I do not eat/drink in local establishments.. at least in Beanos etc you are not subjected to a thick blue fug when you walk in, plus they tend to have a better standard of cleanliness than local places.


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## hurghadapat

Gounie said:


> No but I have been to Summerland many years ago in Sakkala.
> 
> The restaurants in El Gouna are very expensive so I enjoy a trip to Hurghada to pay Egyptian prices. There are many restaurants serving excellent food. The fish restaurant I was referring to overlooks the enormous new mosque outside Hurghada Marina.
> 
> It's just an example.
> 
> There are great alternatives to Costa Coffe too


Lol....drinking coffee with the Bedouins


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## MaidenScotland

Since Thursday I have spent the equivalent of 120 sterling on various medical tests.. I still have to visit another doctor and he might suggest more tests plus of course the cost of visiting the doctor when all my results come back... then there will be the costs of meds.


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## movinghome

MaidenScotland (incidentally, I lived in Scotland for about 20 years - Dundee and Edinburgh - although I'm English), sorry to hear about the health difficulties and hope things get sorted.

I think I will leave aside the cost of living issue here - people are so very different. I think I could live in Switzerland (excluding rent and insurance) for around 15k GBP per annum and the prices in CH are way more expensive than are being quoted for in Egypt. On the other hand, a friend thinks I'm crazy to think I could live on 15k here because (from my point of view) she is so addicted to luxuries that I find a complete waste of money! Horses for courses.

Anyway, I read somewhere that the MB accidentally let out news on additional taxes etc and that this news has since been retracted. I know reforms are supposed to be coming up (is it in May?). Are there any "rumours" as to what policies may be - I can imagine that an easy way to get more money would be to tax foreigners more. I heard about the policy that businesses (in the Sinai only?) had to be 51% Egyptian owned. I can't imagine they would restrict long-term tourist permits/visas or does anyone know anything different? 

Has anyone ever been refused renewal of a long-term rental contract (for no fault of their own)? Do you have to prove permission to be a resident before you can get the rental contract?

I thought I'd just continue to keep you all busy


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## movinghome

I want to leave the cost of life question for now. However, for any other newbies reading in who are also feeling confused, I found a pdf of teaching salaries in El Gouna (no date on it) and it was around 22k EUR per annum with a take-home salary of 1800 EUR per month. I think accommodation was included, but that wasn't clear to me. Anyway, I found that surprisingly high, which supports those who said I needed more than I was planning, even if I still can't really work it out logically.


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## Gounie

movinghome said:


> Per month
> Food (for home): 400 LE


You have to avoid the imported stuff. I've just spent over LE400 in two days succumbing to temptation in the supermarket in El Gouna that has no prices and receipts in Arabic. (You can check everything on scanners around the shop.)

100g Nescafe Decaffinated LE77
Frozen blueberries LE65 (because they are so good for you!!)
Frozen goats cheese ravioli LE38
Pesto sauce LE34
Emanthal Cheese LE35
Four cheeses tortollini LE38

Plus all the other everyday items.

Not sure about the teachers salaries in El Gouna. They used to be rock bottom.


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## MaidenScotland

Gounie said:


> You have to avoid the imported stuff. I've just spent over LE400 in two days succumbing to temptation in the supermarket in El Gouna that has no prices and receipts in Arabic. (You can check everything on scanners around the shop.)
> 
> 100g Nescafe Decaffinated LE77
> Frozen blueberries LE65 (because they are so good for you!!)
> Frozen goats cheese ravioli LE38
> Pesto sauce LE34
> Emanthal Cheese LE35
> Four cheeses tortollini LE38
> 
> Plus all the other everyday items.
> 
> Not sure about the teachers salaries in El Gouna. They used to be rock bottom.




I will never be able to avoid them 

Friends tell me when you couldn't even get Nescafe ...


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## MaidenScotland

Gounie said:


> You have to avoid the imported stuff. I've just spent over LE400 in two days succumbing to temptation in the supermarket in El Gouna that has no prices and receipts in Arabic. (You can check everything on scanners around the shop.)
> 
> 100g Nescafe Decaffinated LE77
> Frozen blueberries LE65 (because they are so good for you!!)
> Frozen goats cheese ravioli LE38
> Pesto sauce LE34
> Emanthal Cheese LE35
> Four cheeses tortollini LE38
> 
> Plus all the other everyday items.
> 
> Not sure about the teachers salaries in El Gouna. They used to be rock bottom.





Just opened a can of sardines cheap local ones for the cats... they are full of bones and the cats refused them, they are now tucking into John West at a cost of 18 LE


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## Gounie

Fresh step crystals cat litter 3.62kg LE95!!


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## MaidenScotland

Gounie said:


> Fresh step crystals cat litter 3.62kg LE95!!




tell me about it... 

Can you not use sand from the beach?


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## MaidenScotland

There is very little local other than fresh veg etc that I will eat and I never ever touch local meat ... I find most of it not to my palate, but the local beans in tomato sauce are ok for beans on toast.. anything else I don't buy..


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## expatagogo

MaidenScotland said:


> tell me about it...
> 
> Can you not use sand from the beach?


Been there, done that, had to get rid of the sand fleas that came along with. Never again.


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## movinghome

A bit of a non-essential question, but is it possible to get fresh milk (ie, not UHT). I have a lot of milk in coffee, on cereal, etc but can't stand UHT. I've not noticed it being an issue when in hotels, but just wondered if it was freely available (and semi-skimmed? think I only saw full fat and skimmed, but I can mix the two!)? 

Also, when I moved to Switzerland I upgraded myself from drinking concentrated orange juice to freshly pressed. Is that available?


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## MaidenScotland

movinghome said:


> A bit of a non-essential question, but is it possible to get fresh milk (ie, not UHT). I have a lot of milk in coffee, on cereal, etc but can't stand UHT. I've not noticed it being an issue when in hotels, but just wondered if it was freely available (and semi-skimmed? think I only saw full fat and skimmed, but I can mix the two!)?
> 
> Also, when I moved to Switzerland I upgraded myself from drinking concentrated orange juice to freshly pressed. Is that available?




Yes fresh milk is available as is orange juice, in fact it is orange season now.. personally I squeeze my own I don't buy from the juice bars


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## Gounie

Dina Farms fresh full cream milk LE9 also skimmed available. 

Definately squeeze your own juice. And I make all my own soups and freeze portions. Lentil soup today. Bunches of herbs are around LE1.

And when the weather gets really bad in the UK it seems to do the opposite here:
WindGURU: Egypt - El Gouna No wind and highs of 25 degrees for the next 7 days


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## GM1

Juhayna has now also unsweetened juices, LE 9. And we all like the milk and rayeb from Dina Farms!


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## Helen Ellis

I would be very happy to have 10k a year to live on here. I try to stick to 2000 le a month (after rent and utilities), but have more if I need it. Some months there are extra expenses like the dental implant I've just had, or a health check up, or insurance premiums etc.
Like everyone else has said , it depends on your desired lifestyle. I go out once or twice a week, eat out sometimes, buy clothes and things for the house, but of course have to be careful with what I spend. 
I have a beach and pool at home which saves the cost of going there, and when I dive I get "mates rates" which helps. I usually travel by bus too, much cheaper than taxis, and I feel safe enough on them, plus I'm directly on the bus route, think about coming home in the dark. 
I agree that you should rent first, decide where you prefer living for a start, can you get used to the traffic/street/dogs/mosque noise or do you want a quieter place?
Al Ahyaa will be lovely one day, but right now it's just in the middle, there are lots of other areas of Hurghada/Gouna which are more convenient to live in ( if you don't have a car).
Hope this helps.


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## MaidenScotland

Helen Ellis said:


> I would be very happy to have 10k a year to live on here. I try to stick to 2000 le a month (after rent and utilities), but have more if I need it. Some months there are extra expenses like the dental implant I've just had, or a health check up, or insurance premiums etc.
> Like everyone else has said , it depends on your desired lifestyle. I go out once or twice a week, eat out sometimes, buy clothes and things for the house, but of course have to be careful with what I spend.
> I have a beach and pool at home which saves the cost of going there, and when I dive I get "mates rates" which helps. I usually travel by bus too, much cheaper than taxis, and I feel safe enough on them, plus I'm directly on the bus route, think about coming home in the dark.
> I agree that you should rent first, decide where you prefer living for a start, can you get used to the traffic/street/dogs/mosque noise or do you want a quieter place?
> Al Ahyaa will be lovely one day, but right now it's just in the middle, there are lots of other areas of Hurghada/Gouna which are more convenient to live in ( if you don't have a car).
> Hope this helps.




I wish I could be a better saver of money... there is no way I could live on 2000 a month in fact I feel faint at the thought of it


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## alexander4455

movinghome said:


> I'm a UK expat (female in late 40s) currently living and working in Switzerland. I've been trying to find another job for a year with no success (unhappy in my current one) but think I have enough money to live independently in Egypt. Specifically, at the moment, I am thinking about Al Ahyaa.
> 
> What are the views of those currently living in Egypt about the political situation and how it might affect those in the more European/touristy areas of Egypt? On the one hand, I think they need the jobs and so building and development etc will continue. On the other hand, they don't have the money and the MB may be antagonistic to any developments involving foreigners (is this suspicion about the MB attirude correct?) and so all building and development here may stop.
> 
> Why was the Carrefour burned down in 2011 - was it because it symbolised foreign influence or was it just a random target? It just seemed a bit self-destructive to me, but I guess these things are always a bit mindless wherever you are.
> 
> I'm only just starting to look into this, so don't shoot me! Thanks for any input.


Al Ahyaa 
I think the area is probably a good choice, its safer than some areas and you do not get the hassle common in other areas. If you live your life as a local, then life its very cheap. The good thing about this area is that there are quite a lot of Europeans and if you use public transport, you can get to the heart of Hurghada for 20 pence. 10 pence to Dahar (local shopping) and a further 10 pence to go to Sheraton Street. Security is quite good in the area. I am pleased that one person is so happy in El Gouna, it would not suit me as A its too far from anywhere B Its like a ghost town. In a better economy, when tourists arrive it would be pretty but now coffeee bars are permenently empty and houses left empty as unattended for long periods. I went to the beach and I was the only person there at 2pm in the afternoon. (for the jokers) no I did not announce my arrival. There is no unrest in Hurghada but when you mingle with the locals you can feel their worries as life is becoming very difficult for them and they struggle to look after their families. Hurghada presently is surviving more on the money which comes from the Russian market. There are plenty of Russians but a lot less than last year. Property to buy is dead cheap but make sure you buy from a vendor who has registered the land, this would help your application for a 5 year residency visa. There are several builders who are fast building but their investment is so unsafe. No names mentioned here but I know who they are,


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## movinghome

Thanks - some additional very helpful information. I'm still doing all my financial calculations, plan Bs, etc and working out when best to move over (emotionally: sooner the better, financially: later is better!), if that's what I decide (it is a big decision). I'd move over in either June or in Sept.

I'm currently thinking of risking buying an early off-plan apartment in Al Ahyaa and renting for the first 2-3 years in El Gouna until it is built. I think El Gouna may be a "soft landing" for me in terms of adapting and by the time the apartment is built, Al Ahyaa will hopefully be more established and I'll be more prepared to go more local (but still in a relatively European type area). If I change my mind, I can perhaps sell the property, if lucky.

I am mentally writing off the apartment but hope to buy via an Escrow so that I have protection of the money if the builders go bankrupt (just in my head - haven't looked far into this yet other than that I will need agreement from the developer). I feel I will kick myself later if I see that the property price rises with inflation (and as it getss built) over the next few years, although it could also be that the market will dive because no-one has any money and property taxes are due to increase, I believe. It's all a bit of an unknown, as it is anywhere.

Alexander2255 - when you say that the investment is not safe, do you mean that the buildings are not being built in a way that conforms to building regs etc or are you talking about price?

Does anyone have a worry that food will become unavailable in Egypt at some point? I am a bit concerned about the statement I read that the Egyptian govt claimed that current reserves barely suffice for the importation of basic food and fuels or was this just to pressurise the IMF to give a loan?

I'm kind of hoping that any inflation will be offset by currency devaluation (so converting my GBP or CHF will give me more Egyptian pounds as prices rise within Egypt), but obviously all these things are unknowns.


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## MaidenScotland

No I don't worry about a lack of food, if it ever got that bad I would leave plus there is always the black market... 

Food shortages will have an impact on the poor first.. see above.. Egypt is the biggest importer of wheat and if there are no dollars to buy it then there will be a bread shortage. 

Which makes me ask.. What happens to all the dollars that are paid by shipping going through the Suez Canal, only a week or so they were reporting the biggest number of ships had passed through in recent years.


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## MaidenScotland

http://www.expatforum.com/expats/egypt-expat-forum-expats-living-egypt/56355-moona.html

http://www.expatforum.com/expats/eg...sa-alam-beach-resort-alarm-bells-ringing.html


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## aykalam

movinghome said:


> Does anyone have a worry that food will become unavailable in Egypt at some point? I am a bit concerned about the statement I read that the Egyptian govt claimed that current reserves barely suffice for the importation of basic food and fuels or was this just to pressurise the IMF to give a loan?


I'm not concerned about lack of food, but about the price that food staples will reach and the consequences of such price hikes. If Egyptians can't eat, the Jan25 uprising will seem like a day in the park in comparison.


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## alexander4455

movinghome said:


> Thanks - some additional very helpful information. I'm still doing all my financial calculations, plan Bs, etc and working out when best to move over (emotionally: sooner the better, financially: later is better!), if that's what I decide (it is a big decision). I'd move over in either June or in Sept.
> 
> I'm currently thinking of risking buying an early off-plan apartment in Al Ahyaa and renting for the first 2-3 years in El Gouna until it is built. I think El Gouna may be a "soft landing" for me in terms of adapting and by the time the apartment is built, Al Ahyaa will hopefully be more established and I'll be more prepared to go more local (but still in a relatively European type area). If I change my mind, I can perhaps sell the property, if lucky.
> 
> I am mentally writing off the apartment but hope to buy via an Escrow so that I have protection of the money if the builders go bankrupt (just in my head - haven't looked far into this yet other than that I will need agreement from the developer). I feel I will kick myself later if I see that the property price rises with inflation (and as it getss built) over the next few years, although it could also be that the market will dive because no-one has any money and property taxes are due to increase, I believe. It's all a bit of an unknown, as it is anywhere.
> 
> Alexander2255 - when you say that the investment is not safe, do you mean that the buildings are not being built in a way that conforms to building regs etc or are you talking about price?
> 
> Does anyone have a worry that food will become unavailable in Egypt at some point? I am a bit concerned about the statement I read that the Egyptian govt claimed that current reserves barely suffice for the importation of basic food and fuels or was this just to pressurise the IMF to give a loan?
> 
> I'm kind of hoping that any inflation will be offset by currency devaluation (so converting my GBP or CHF will give me more Egyptian pounds as prices rise within Egypt), but obviously all these things are unknowns.


snip


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## alexander4455

Yes, the exchange rate is the best it has ever been and you can still get a loan if you put a decent amount down. There will never be a shortage of food but I agree with others. The meat is terrible, mostly tough as they have no grass to graze and not much water so the taste is a lot different. Fish is fantastic and plentiful and vegetables fantastic


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## Gounie

Maybe worry about the power cuts. Last summer Egypt couldn't cope with the demand on the power supply. And with all the power cuts come power surges which can destroy your electrical equipment.

We pay more for electricity in El Gouna because the town has it's own power grid so they monitor the power and the surges and our supply kicks in when there is a power cut. We had many interruptions last summer but only minutes rather than hours.


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## CAIRODEMON

alexander4455 said:


> Yes, the exchange rate is the best it has ever been and you can still get a loan if you put a decent amount down. There will never be a shortage of food but I agree with others. The meat is terrible, mostly tough as they have no grass to graze and not much water so the taste is a lot different. Fish is fantastic and plentiful and vegetables fantastic



No, the exchange rate is not the best that it has ever been but it soon will be. However that is 100% due to LE weakness which will bring problems in the near future.

Veg supply is indeed good now but in summer what is available will be quite pathetic. Worth freezing if you are confident about your power supply.


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## Helen Ellis

MaidenScotland said:


> I wish I could be a better saver of money... there is no way I could live on 2000 a month in fact I feel faint at the thought of it


It's not easy, but it beats living and having to work in UK. ;-)


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## cutiepie

movinghome said:


> I want to leave the cost of life question for now. However, for any other newbies reading in who are also feeling confused, I found a pdf of teaching salaries in El Gouna (no date on it) and it was around 22k EUR per annum with a take-home salary of 1800 EUR per month. I think accommodation was included, but that wasn't clear to me. Anyway, I found that surprisingly high, which supports those who said I needed more than I was planning, even if I still can't really work it out logically.


High?....Accommodation and bills are included in that and still I never spared a penny  I wasn't out every night drinking/socialising, always went out in hurghada to restaurants ...had a good comfortable lifestyle...thankfully my salary is now double that 

. Everyone's different but no def couldn't live on 10,000


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## MaidenScotland

Friend is having work done on his apartment, he is Egyptian... prices went up 15% this week, 

Work we are having done at the dog shelter.. up 15% this week, 


Everyone will be jumping on the bandwagon and prices are going to rocket. 

btw once again a shortage of dollars local to me


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