# Electricity Bills - Potencia.



## el romeral (May 8, 2012)

Just been looking through my latest electricity bills for Jan/Feb. It seems no matter what I do, I still end up paying a fortune. 
Being Spain, I have separate bills, one for the pump on the well and one for the main house bill. The electricity company will not merge the two, so stuck with that. 

Was wondering if the potencias I have are over the top? I live alone in a 5 bed house and work abroad over 30% of the time. Do not use the AC and do not need central heating. No tumble dryer. Logs provide most of the heat.

Well potencia is 3,29kW = 15.31€ & iva. Total bill = 50,59€
House potencia is 6,90kW = 47.57€ & iva. Total bill = 222,31€

I end up paying 100€ every 2 months before I even start on the electricity! Bad enough that we have Europe's fifth most expensive electricity here in Spain, without all the extra nonsense.

What potencias are normal and how does one go about getting it reduced - does it require the services of a notory with numerous visits from pillar to post and copies of everything in triplicate, including inside leg measurement?


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

We only have 3.45kw potencia, and that is enough for us, but only because we use gas for all our cooking.

However, when we were arranging a new boletin for a friend of ours, the electrician checked that she did not have an electric oven and hob before he would issue the boletin for 3.45kw, as he said that 5.5kw was really the minimum needed for a property with an electric oven and hob (and well as all the other stuff like fridge/freezer, washing machine, kettle, toaster, possibly water heater, etc.). So if your kitchen is all-electric, you could probably reduce your potencia by one level to 5.5 but not below that, may not save you very much.


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## kalohi (May 6, 2012)

We have 4.4kw for a house with 4 inhabitants. Electric oven (gas for hob and water heater), two A/C units, electric heater in the bathroom, plus the other normal appliances such as fridge, washer, dishwasher, TV's, computers, etc. 

We only very occasionally trip the circuit breaker. It happens when we have numerous heating appliances running at the same time (eg A/C heating unit + bathroom heater + hair dryer). They are real energy gluttons.


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## el romeral (May 8, 2012)

Thanks for the replies. I have no gas in the house but am sure I should be able to manage with a reduced potencia and hopefully for the well pump also. 

Never understood the logic here but people who have the ability to use the most power and be the best customers, are punished (every month) for the privilege. Maybe a Communist thing against the "wealthy"?

How would I go about getting the potencias reduced?


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

el romeral said:


> Thanks for the replies. I have no gas in the house but am sure I should be able to manage with a reduced potencia and hopefully for the well pump also.
> 
> Never understood the logic here but people who have the ability to use the most power and be the best customers, are punished (every month) for the privilege. Maybe a Communist thing against the "wealthy"?
> 
> How would I go about getting the potencias reduced?


I think the conspiracy theory is a bit far-fetched. It is the people who are the heaviest energy users who need the higher potencias, and the only way to reduce it is to limit your energy use at any one time - which is what Governments want people to do as the currently limitless and growing demands for more and more energy to be generated are not sustainable in the long term.

You need to contact your energy supplier and make a request for the potencia to be reduced and tell them what you want it reduced to.

If you get it done you are going to have to be very conscious about how many appliances you have in use at the same time, or the supply will trip which you will find very irritating.


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

Lynn R said:


> I think the conspiracy theory is a bit far-fetched. It is the people who are the heaviest energy users who need the higher potencias, and the only way to reduce it is to limit your energy use at any one time - which is what Governments want people to do as the currently limitless and growing demands for more and more energy to be generated are not sustainable in the long term.
> 
> You need to contact your energy supplier and make a request for the potencia to be reduced and tell them what you want it reduced to.
> 
> If you get it done you are going to have to be very conscious about how many appliances you have in use at the same time, or the supply will trip which you will find very irritating.



... you will also have to get an Electrical Boletin from a qualified (Spanish) electrician. This electrician should then be able to carry out the work in conjunction with you power supplier.


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

snikpoh said:


> ... you will also have to get an Electrical Boletin from a qualified (Spanish) electrician. This electrician should then be able to carry out the work in conjunction with you power supplier.


I don't think you need a boletin to get the potencia reduced, only if you want it increased.

This site tells you how to do it. Endesa, for example, charge €11 to make the change and may only ask for a boletin if the installation is more than 20 years old.


http://www.bajatelapotencia.org/como-bajar-la-potencia/


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Our potencia is 4.6 and the standing charge is about €16 a month. It's fine for us. We often have two electric radiators, a heated towel rail and the oven on all at the same time without it tripping.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

We, family of 3 + 2 dogs in a 5BR 2Ba house have 3.3kW potencia and very rarely trip the power (usually when the M-i-l whacks on a 3kW heater and other things are in use). We use gas for cooking but have an electric kettle, toaster, slow cooker, halogen oven a few low potential oil-filled radiators (1kW or less) and occasionally use the A/C inverter for a short while. One gets into the habit of not overdoing it by being conscious of how much power things use. For example, I knew SWMBO was using the hairdryer the other day and I took the precaution of waiting until she had finished before turning on the kettle.


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## Pazcat (Mar 24, 2010)

We upped ours to around 9ish, not sure why anyone should have to dick around switching things on and off all the time just to boil a kettle.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Pazcat said:


> We upped ours to around 9ish, not sure why anyone should have to dick around switching things on and off all the time just to boil a kettle.


We don't have to 'dick around' - it just leads to more careful usage and less extravagance which is one of the major factors in the environmental problem (a.k.a. global warming). Of course if you are quite happy paying over the odds for every kW you use, that is up to you.


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## VFR (Dec 23, 2009)

baldilocks said:


> We don't have to 'dick around' - it just leads to more careful usage and less extravagance which is one of the major factors in the environmental problem (a.k.a. global warming). Of course if you are quite happy paying over the odds for every kW you use, that is up to you.


So you never boiled the kettle then ?, as that would be less extravagance, if you did then that would be the same but just takes longer.
BTW there is "no hard" evidence that power usage causes Global Warming.
The KW cost is the same (is it not ?)


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## AllHeart (Nov 22, 2013)

VFR said:


> BTW there is "no hard" evidence that power usage causes Global Warming.


:frusty:

:deadhorse:


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## VFR (Dec 23, 2009)

AllHeart said:


> :frusty:
> 
> :deadhorse:


LOL I thought that might get a response.


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## el romeral (May 8, 2012)

Lynn R said:


> I don't think you need a boletin to get the potencia reduced, only if you want it increased.
> 
> This site tells you how to do it. Endesa, for example, charge €11 to make the change and may only ask for a boletin if the installation is more than 20 years old.
> 
> ...


Thanks for that. I am also with Endesa. Hopefully can just change it over the phone then.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

VFR said:


> So you never boiled the kettle then ?, as that would be less extravagance, if you did then that would be the same but just takes longer.
> BTW there is "no hard" evidence that power usage causes Global Warming.
> The KW cost is the same (is it not ?)


I waited until she was no longer using the hairdryer. The cost per kW is partly governed by your potencia, the higher your potencia, the more you pay as I understand it.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

VFR said:


> So you never boiled the kettle then ?, as that would be less extravagance, if you did then that would be the same but just takes longer.
> BTW there is "no hard" evidence that power usage causes Global Warming.
> The KW cost is the same (is it not ?)


It does when power generation is using oil or coal or gas fire power stations!! They produce a heck of a lot of CO2 which helps cause global warming.


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## VFR (Dec 23, 2009)

baldilocks said:


> I waited until she was no longer using the hairdryer. The cost per kW is partly governed by your potencia, the higher your potencia, the more you pay as I understand it.


So you were being extravagant (your words) in that the Sun/Air is more than capable of drying hair.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

VFR said:


> So you were being extravagant (your words) in that the Sun/Air is more than capable of drying hair.


That's how mine is dried but she has a lot more than I.


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## AllHeart (Nov 22, 2013)

VFR said:


> LOL I thought that might get a response.


There are those who will say that and mean it. I missed your poker face, since I can't see you.


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## AllHeart (Nov 22, 2013)

baldilocks said:


> I waited until she was no longer using the hairdryer. The cost per kW is partly governed by your potencia, the higher your potencia, the more you pay as I understand it.


Yes, that's right. As Stevesolar explained it to me last year in another thread, it's like the flat rate that you pay before any energy consumption. I'm just getting my bill changed into my name, and this is one of the things I'm going to do too, as my current potencia is 5.5 KWatt, which is ridiculously high.


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## Lolito (Aug 25, 2012)

When we bought this house the potencia was 2.2, coming from 5.5 in our old house, we thought we would have to increase it eventually.

18 months later, we are still on 2.2 and because of the low potencia, we have a social bonus of 25% off our monthly bills, so we never pay more than 20 or 25 euros a month. 

Everything is electrical here, oven, hob, A/C units, etc, etc... and yes, kettle too, times 2 as we have 2 kitchens. 

We trip the electricity maybe once every other month, mainly when cooking and using everything at once. We don't go around thinking about not tripping it, you just get used to it, all the lights are usually on at night time, as they are low thingy, they don't consume much. We thought about increasing it but to be honest, I have called Iberdrola and it was too much trouble when we live happily with 2.2.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

baldilocks said:


> I waited until she was no longer using the hairdryer. The cost per kW is partly governed by your potencia, the higher your potencia, the more you pay as I understand it.


I thought it was the standing charge that depended on the potencia, rather than the rate per unit used. The higher the potencia, the higher the standing charge.

The company I'm with (CHC Energía) gives a 5% discount on the per unit rate if your potencia is less than 10kW. Our bill for Jan and Feb this year was lower than it's ever been, for some reason.


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## Lolito (Aug 25, 2012)

If you are pensionista, unemployed, low potencia, or familia numerosa, you are entitled to 25% off your bill with Iberdrola.

https://www.iberdrola.es/clientes/hogar/tarifas-reguladas/bono-social


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

---


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## The Skipper (Nov 26, 2014)

Lolito said:


> When we bought this house the potencia was 2.2, coming from 5.5 in our old house, we thought we would have to increase it eventually.
> 
> 18 months later, we are still on 2.2 and because of the low potencia, we have a social bonus of 25% off our monthly bills, so we never pay more than 20 or 25 euros a month.
> 
> ...


As a matter of interest, do you have a smart meter? We managed fine on 3,3kw until the smart meter was fitted and then we started regularly tripping. Like so many Spanish houses (certainly everyone who lives near us!) our old ICP was higher rated than it should have been (ie, illegal!). We are now in the process of upgrading to 5,7kw. Some of our Spanish neighbours had 2,2kw contracts and were running a/c and halogen hobs - but not now!


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## Lolito (Aug 25, 2012)

We do have a smart meter, funnily enough it was installed on our street on the same day we moved in, starting a 0000. I have noticed that when the electricity trip, sometimes we have to go out outside of the house where the meter is installed, open the padlock and press the green button, as it won't work from the mains inside the house. But this happens around 6 o 7 times a year that we trip the electricity. 

If we have the aircon on, plus a three of four lights and the TV on, is more than fine for the whole evening, I tend to program the wash loads for very early in the morning, (well, around 7am), so when I get up, the wash is done, we don't use hairdryers or irons ever, so it is only when we use the kettle or oven, that it trips. But then we turn off the aircon briefly to make a cup of tea, I don't know, it is not too much of an effort when you get used to it really.

In my old house we used to pay between 90 minimum and 130 maximum per month and we didn't have aircon there! Here the most we have paid monthly on checking my bills is 26 euros in the middle of the summer.


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## Desiato (Jun 1, 2015)

Wow, 2.2Kw. There's no way I'd be able to get away with a supply that low. I've recently lowered the potencia from 13.85 to 6.9 and bought a 3 phase monitor to see exactly how much energy we were using at any given time. Looking at it now it is fluctuating between 568w and 660w and that is with a TV on, this laptop and external monitor, fridge freezer and bedside alarm clock. If I turn on the centre ring on the ceramic hob it jumps to 2.5kw. If I make the centre ring bigger it goes to 3.5kw and the supersize triple ring (for stupidly large pans) has the monitor reading 4.5kw. That's without the oven, the toaster and the microwave on which can all be used at the same time (and no lights on). I've seen the monitor at 6.8kw with several things on at once and when we are cooking we keep an eye on it and avoid boiling the kettle as that causes the monitor to jump up by 2.6kw. That doesn't make any sense does it, my kettle uses more power than your entire property! 

We still manage to trip the switch once a fortnight but at the moment we aren't sure why as only the kettle or toaster was turned on, might be a fault or a spike causing it to trip?

Just a couple of other things. With the 13.85 potencia, when there was a power surge from lightning (we never tripped it from appliance use), it would throw the switch. Now, if we go over 6.9kw (or if the toaster throws a wobbly and trips the switch) after 30 seconds the power comes back on by itself. This was the clue that Endesa had lowered the potencia although they charged us for a further 3 weeks at 13.85 because....well, we never really got a good reason. 

One piece of advice, once all your paperwork has been sent to your supplier, keep chasing it up. Endesa twice closed our case for lowering the potencia because they 'claimed' to be waiting for additional documentation from us and after 30 days, they bin what you have sent and you have to start the procedure all over again. A couple of other friends said it was like pulling teeth to get the potencia lowered. First with electricians who didn't think we should lower it and then with Endesa who lost paperwork on a regular basis (and had no records of the numerous phone calls made) so be prepared for a bit of a struggle. You are depriving them of their hard earned money remember! It took around 6 months before we finally got the potencia lowered and we haven't had the first bill yet so it will be interesting to compare the before and after bills.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

We now have a smart meter and on 3.3kW don't seem to be experiencing any problems unless the m-i-l starts getting switch-happy again. She had the Inverter set to 30° in the small office/TV room (3m x 2.5 m)the other day - crazy - normally as soon as the temperature gets to about 21°, she has the a/c on!


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## WeeScottie (Mar 17, 2015)

Hide the remote!


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## Lolito (Aug 25, 2012)

Well, right now, we have the telly on, two lamps at each side of the telly on too, a big lamp behind us with 5 bulbs, it is on too, and the kitchen light is on, and are both playing with our laptops that are on too, obviously! We also have 5 lights in the porche on, and 2 further lights outside the porche (garden) on too. Most nights it is like this. Obviously the fridges are both on. Then 3 or 4 small clocks, i.e. alarm clocks, etc. The piano is always on too. 

We'll put the kettle on later, nothing will happen. also if we use the small ring on the hob, it will be fine. 

I don't know, maybe we just got used to it, everything works fine.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Lolito said:


> Well, right now, we have the telly on, two lamps at each side of the telly on too, a big lamp behind us with 5 bulbs, it is on too, and the kitchen light is on, and are both playing with our laptops that are on too, obviously! We also have 5 lights in the porche on, and 2 further lights outside the porche (garden) on too. Most nights it is like this. Obviously the fridges are both on. Then 3 or 4 small clocks, i.e. alarm clocks, etc. The piano is always on too.
> 
> We'll put the kettle on later, nothing will happen. also if we use the small ring on the hob, it will be fine.
> 
> I don't know, maybe we just got used to it, everything works fine.



Depends on the wattage of the lamps. Most of what you are saying are fairly low wattage until you get to the kettle and maybe the hob.


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## Desiato (Jun 1, 2015)

Lolito said:


> Well, right now, we have the telly on, two lamps at each side of the telly on too, a big lamp behind us with 5 bulbs, it is on too, and the kitchen light is on, and are both playing with our laptops that are on too, obviously! We also have 5 lights in the porche on, and 2 further lights outside the porche (garden) on too. Most nights it is like this. Obviously the fridges are both on. Then 3 or 4 small clocks, i.e. alarm clocks, etc. The piano is always on too.
> 
> We'll put the kettle on later, nothing will happen. also if we use the small ring on the hob, it will be fine.
> 
> I don't know, maybe we just got used to it, everything works fine.


Low voltage lamps and clocks use relatively little power (single digit watts). We had a backup fridge and freezer which I found (using another monitor) were eating up 2 units a day each or just over 80 watts an hour (both now decommissioned). Underneath your hob it should have its power rating, mine says 9kw. Are you able to have more than 2 rings on at a time? I'm still puzzled by the kettle because whilst 2.6kw sounds a little high, it's not outrageous but would clearly trip your switch. I'm still scratching an itch that says there's something not quite right about my electrical installation. I've never heard of a potencia lower than 3.3 but your bills of 20/25€ a month does back that up. With all my cost cutting I've managed to get it under €150 a month for the first time in years.....and that's before the central heating gas bill! Admittedly the high potencia has a lot to do with that but even so...Ho hum.


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## Lolito (Aug 25, 2012)

Funnily enough, today we received the bill for the last 32 days, it was 24.12 euros. As I said, the last couple of times we tripped the electricity was when we tried to use the oven and 2 rings together. Nothing ever happened with the kettle, it is 1200 w. 

And yes, all the lights on our house, inside and outside are all low wattage and led.

We thought about increasing it but we get by quite well with 2.2 and if we increase it, we also lose the 25% discount for low potencia.


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## Desiato (Jun 1, 2015)

Lolito said:


> Funnily enough, today we received the bill for the last 32 days, it was 24.12 euros. As I said, the last couple of times we tripped the electricity was when we tried to use the oven and 2 rings together. Nothing ever happened with the kettle, it is 1200 w.
> 
> And yes, all the lights on our house, inside and outside are all low wattage and led.
> 
> We thought about increasing it but we get by quite well with 2.2 and if we increase it, we also lose the 25% discount for low potencia.


Just had a look at my kettle and it's a rapid heat one from Tescos and it says the power use is 50hz 2520w to 3000w. I suppose I should be thankful that it's not using its full capacity but what it does highlight is that 2/3kw for a kettle is not out of the ordinary and is clearly something everyone should check before buying a new kettle, especially those on low potencias.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Desiato said:


> Just had a look at my kettle and it's a rapid heat one from Tescos and it says the power use is 50hz 2520w to 3000w. I suppose I should be thankful that it's not using its full capacity but what it does highlight is that 2/3kw for a kettle is not out of the ordinary and is clearly something everyone should check before buying a new kettle, especially those on low potencias.


I suspect that's why most Spanish people heat water on the hob. I haven't owned a kettle since we moved here - you soon get used to it!


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## Maureen47 (Mar 27, 2014)

I guess its just being conscious of costs , when we arrived our log burner was broken , the previous owner didnt tell us and hid the damage by filling it with logs but thats another story. We used electric radiators for heat as it was Nov when we arrived. The bill for those 2 months was over 300 euros. I have just checked the estimate for the bill due soon when using the log burner and it 112 euros. Theres only 2 of us but we did have visitors for 2 weeks in this bill period. We have a gas hob and an electric oven , use lamps in the living room , use the microwave , we dont have an electric kettle. Water is heated by gas, we have the pool pump on for an hour a day as the pool was in a state too when we arrived and took a lot of hard work to get it right and we want to keep it that way ! We do have aircon so dont know what that will bring in our first summer but I dont intend to have it running unless we are absolutely cooked , maybe we will use it to cool the bedroom to get off to sleep but hopefully wont rack up another 300euro plus bill !


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## Lolito (Aug 25, 2012)

Maureen, a ceiling fan could do the trick, we have aircon in our bedroom but hardly use it, we have the ceiling fan all night on, as it is only 60w , if you leave windows and doors opened it will work better. Aircon is noisy and as soon as your turn it off, you are back to boiling point.


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## Simon22 (May 22, 2015)

baldilocks said:


> We, family of 3 + 2 dogs in a 5BR 2Ba house have 3.3kW potencia and very rarely trip the power (usually when the M-i-l whacks on a 3kW heater and other things are in use). We use gas for cooking but have an electric kettle, toaster, slow cooker, halogen oven a few low potential oil-filled radiators (1kW or less) and occasionally use the A/C inverter for a short while. One gets into the habit of not overdoing it by being conscious of how much power things use. For example, I knew SWMBO was using the hairdryer the other day and I took the precaution of waiting until she had finished before turning on the kettle.


There is only two of us (and a cat) but we do the same, make a cup of tea and then start the washing machine. It's not that hard and makes you think about what you're using.


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## Dave and Anne Galicia (Nov 15, 2008)

The Limitador for a Potencia of 2.2kW should be 10Amps. We have been told by people in our área that it is extremely common for the householder/ friendly electrician to upgrade (illegally) the Limitador to say 20Amps and thus be able to draw 4.6kW whilst still enjopying the 25% discount on the standing charge.


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

Dave and Anne Galicia said:


> The Limitador for a Potencia of 2.2kW should be 10Amps. We have been told by people in our área that it is extremely common for the householder/ friendly electrician to upgrade (illegally) the Limitador to say 20Amps and thus be able to draw 4.6kW whilst still enjopying the 25% discount on the standing charge.




This is an EXTREMELY dangerous thing to do. The wiring may not be able to take that sort of current - this may cause a fire, shorts etc. etc.

Please don't do this.


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## Isobella (Oct 16, 2014)

Dave and Anne Galicia said:


> The Limitador for a Potencia of 2.2kW should be 10Amps. We have been told by people in our área that it is extremely common for the householder/ friendly electrician to upgrade (illegally) the Limitador to say 20Amps and thus be able to draw 4.6kW whilst still enjopying the 25% discount on the standing charge.


Hear of that happening a lot over the years. Perhaps some could still have altered ones and not know it. I know someone who did and when there was a fault the meter was sealed off and electric cut. They were completely unaware. Suppose it couldn't happen with smart meters.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Pazcat said:


> We upped ours to around 9ish, not sure why anyone should have to dick around switching things on and off all the time just to boil a kettle.


9?
Nine!?
How much do you pay every month just for potencia?

Do you have an affinity to anyone in Blackpool?


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Dave and Anne Galicia said:


> The Limitador for a Potencia of 2.2kW should be 10Amps. We have been told by people in our área that it is extremely common for the householder/ friendly electrician to upgrade (illegally) the Limitador to say 20Amps and thus be able to draw 4.6kW whilst still enjopying the 25% discount on the standing charge.


Friendly idiot electricians who are willing to put property and people at risk of fire and damage for a few euros in his back pocket.


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## Lolito (Aug 25, 2012)

Ours is a smart meter, so we can't do that. lol ! We wouldn't anyway! We also have an app on the mobile that tells you when the electricity would be cheaper for the next 24 hours, it was handy but we deleted it after a few days, we are not that mean! lol! According to that app, the cheapest hours where before 7 am and between 3 and 7pm... Precio de la luz it was called I think.


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## el romeral (May 8, 2012)

Lynn R said:


> It is the people who are the heaviest energy users who need the higher potencias, and the only way to reduce it is to limit your energy use at any one time - which is what Governments want people to do as the currently limitless and growing demands for more and more energy to be generated are not sustainable in the long term.


It would be nice to think that this were true, however, the Government (and of course their best friends- the electricity companies) are only in it for the money. They know that there are customers who have highish needs and usages and seek to make even more money from them by hitting them with the hiked potencias, whether they are using a lot of power, or not - and every month too.

If they were really serious about making the whole power industry more sustainable then they would make it more attractive for individuals to generate their own electricity by use of solar power. Instead they bend the rules and make it impossibly expensive to do so, and in a country blessed with outrageous amounts of sunshine.


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