# Work experience in EOI.... total vs relevant



## Speedbird (Aug 3, 2015)

Whilst claiming points for work experience in EOI which experience should be mentioned, total work experience OR the experience assessed as relevant by VETASSES in skills assessment ?

In case TOTAL work experience is mentioned in EOI and invitation is received consequently can the visa be rejected due to over-claiming of points ? Case in point the thread below:

http://www.expatforum.com/expats/au...nt-subclass-189-visa-refused-help-needed.html


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## KeeDa (Sep 1, 2014)

Since you posted that link, you seem to be already informed about the topic. Therefore make sure that you mark only that part of the experience as relevant in the EOI (there is an option to mark as such). All the rest prior to the skilled experience up to past 10 years has to be marked as not-relevant.


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## Speedbird (Aug 3, 2015)

Thanks for the response.

In case invitation has already been received with the overclaimed work experience in the EOI whats the best way to go about it ?


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## KeeDa (Sep 1, 2014)

Speedbird said:


> Thanks for the response.
> 
> In case invitation has already been received with the overclaimed work experience in the EOI whats the best way to go about it ?


Forget that invitation. Don't lodge the visa using it and suspend it at the earliest. In the mean time lodge a new EOI with correct points and wait for an invitation based on this new EOI.


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## Speedbird (Aug 3, 2015)

KeeDa said:


> Forget that invitation. Don't lodge the visa using it and suspend it at the earliest. In the mean time lodge a new EOI with correct points and wait for an invitation based on this new EOI.


Thanks


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## Speedbird (Aug 3, 2015)

KeeDa said:


> Forget that invitation. Don't lodge the visa using it and suspend it at the earliest. In the mean time lodge a new EOI with correct points and wait for an invitation based on this new EOI.


Whilst I agree with you in principle just wondering if using form 1023 - Notification of incorrect answer(s) and submitting with visa application with rectified experience is a viable option (or an option at all in the first place).


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## KeeDa (Sep 1, 2014)

Speedbird said:


> Whilst I agree with you in principle just wondering if using form 1023 - Notification of incorrect answer(s) and submitting with visa application with rectified experience is a viable option (or an option at all in the first place).


This situation won't count as a mistake that can be corrected for visa processing to proceed further. This is a mistake in the points claim. Had this not occurred, there would not have been an invite nor any visa application in the first place.


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## Speedbird (Aug 3, 2015)

KeeDa said:


> This situation won't count as a mistake that can be corrected for visa processing to proceed further. This is a mistake in the points claim. Had this not occurred, there would not have been an invite nor any visa application in the first place.


Thats not the case because with the overclaimed experience my points totalled 70 and with the relevant experience they equal 65. So invitation and visa processing are still possible.


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## KeeDa (Sep 1, 2014)

Speedbird said:


> Thats not the case because with the overclaimed experience my points totalled 70 and with the relevant experience they equal 65. So invitation and visa processing are still possible.


Yes, but would the invitation have happened on the same day with 65 points too? If not, then they can argue that you jumped the queue to get an early invite.


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## Nostalgia Nut (Feb 11, 2009)

Hello KeeDa and others. I need your advice on a very similar topic:

My work experience is as follows:

Job #1: Oct 2003 to Jan 2007, Industrial Engineer occupation.
Job #2: Feb 2007 to Feb 2008, Industrial Engineer occupation.
Job #3: Mar 2008 to Jan 2009, Industrial Engineer occupation.
Job #4: Jun 2009 to Oct 2011, Industrial Engineer occupation.
Job #5: Oct 2011 to Present, Production Manager (Mfg) occupation.

Job #4 and #5 are from the same company with same reference letter detailing both experiences separately but with same boss's signature and contact details.

My nominated occupation for 189 visa is Industrial Engineer for which I have relevant experience from Oct 2003 until Oct 2011 as seen above.

Engineers Australia has assessed me as follows:

Relevant Overseas Skilled Employment:
Oct 2003 - Jan 2009
Jun 2009 - Mar 2015 (got the latest reference letter in March this year)

Now, here's the thing...

1. Relevant Industrial Engineer employment is only until Oct 2011 but EA have recognized relevant employment until March of this year when I got the reference letter. Do you guys think this is fine?

2. Job #1 of mine doesn't have a proper reference letter with all details. I think it is missing salary info. I also don't have any offer letter to show for this job. Still I provided other evidence like work visa papers, employment authorization docs and even photo evidence of me at the place of work and they accepted it! But will this bit of missing info be a problem with the visa application? despite EA recognizing it?

On the EOI that I submitted a few days back, all jobs from #1 to #5 (Present) is listed. 1 to 4 is relevant. 5 is not. Do I need to change it or does it sound fine?

Thanks for reading and please let me know your thoughts.


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## KeeDa (Sep 1, 2014)

Nostalgia Nut said:


> Hello KeeDa and others. I need your advice on a very similar topic:
> 
> My work experience is as follows:
> 
> ...


#1: From what I understood, you have marked some experience as not-relevant even though EA said it is relevant. Some applicants have done this in the past especially because they felt that they might not be able to satisfy the requirement about employment documents at visa stage- bank statements, payslips, etc. We call it underclaiming the work experience points. Perfectly fine to do so.

#2: For visa application, the reference letter need not have salary info. In the visa application, there are other options to upload evidences for your paid work. Upload the reference letter as well as your payslips, bank statements, and tax documents separately to satisfy this requirement.


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## Nostalgia Nut (Feb 11, 2009)

KeeDa said:


> #1: From what I understood, you have marked some experience as not-relevant even though EA said it is relevant. Some applicants have done this in the past especially because they felt that they might not be able to satisfy the requirement about employment documents at visa stage- bank statements, payslips, etc. We call it underclaiming the work experience points. Perfectly fine to do so.


In that case, should I rather show even my current Production Manager job as relevant employment for Industrial Engineer occupation? because EA have recognized it!(?)

Even without choosing it as relevant though, my overall points are coming to 70. So I don't know.



KeeDa said:


> #2: For visa application, the reference letter need not have salary info. In the visa application, there are other options to upload evidences for your paid work. Upload the reference letter as well as your payslips, bank statements, and tax documents separately to satisfy this requirement.


Great! So even without an offer letter or a 100% complete reference/experience letter, I can then show evidence for that first job then. I have at least 3 payslips to show, reference letter without salary, H1B visa authorization on official US immigration paper showing both company name and my name, Employment Authorization Document after completion of studies and before issuance of H1 visa and even photos of the work place. Hope that is sufficient. I'll have to check if I have any copies of filed tax returns with that company's name.


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## fshah (Aug 15, 2015)

Hi all, i am new to this forum and i have a question and would like u guys to help me out with this.
i have over all 10 years of experience as software engineer and planning to apply for ACS but the problem is my first company is closed in which i had worked from 2005 till 2007. i have their experience letter, fortunately exactly in the format that is required by ACS. i also have bank statement which can prove transfer of slarary durring that perioed of time. question is should i let acs know about the closure of the company? i am vorried if don't and if they somehow tried to conatact my employer, i may be in a problem.

please any one with any idea?

Thanks.


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## KeeDa (Sep 1, 2014)

Nostalgia Nut said:


> In that case, should I rather show even my current Production Manager job as relevant employment for Industrial Engineer occupation? because EA have recognized it!(?)
> 
> Even without choosing it as relevant though, my overall points are coming to 70. So I don't know.


The choice is yours. Job title hardly matters as long as your reference letter can prove that the duties you performed are in line with your ANZSCO. If you have enough evidence of having worked in the job, better include it.



Nostalgia Nut said:


> Great! So even without an offer letter or a 100% complete reference/experience letter, I can then show evidence for that first job then. I have at least 3 payslips to show, reference letter without salary, H1B visa authorization on official US immigration paper showing both company name and my name, Employment Authorization Document after completion of studies and before issuance of H1 visa and even photos of the work place. Hope that is sufficient. I'll have to check if I have any copies of filed tax returns with that company's name.


Just 3 payslips for almost 3.5 years of work might not be sufficient. How about bank statements showing salary credits? Try and get those statements in absence of payslips.


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## Nostalgia Nut (Feb 11, 2009)

KeeDa said:


> The choice is yours. Job title hardly matters as long as your reference letter can prove that the duties you performed are in line with your ANZSCO. If you have enough evidence of having worked in the job, better include it.


Well, the thing is the job duties on the reference letter are clearly demarcated and separate. Production manager job duties matches production manager anzsco code and industrial engineer job duties match industrial engineer anzsco code. Which is why I'm surprised how EA assessed even my current production manager job as relevant employment when my chosen occupation is industrial engineer!?!

The other thing is that EA has recognised relevant work exp only until the date of that letter which is March 2015 whereas in the EOI my current job duration is until Present. Not March. So maybe it's better if I leave this job out. 



KeeDa said:


> Just 3 payslips for almost 3.5 years of work might not be sufficient. How about bank statements showing salary credits? Try and get those statements in absence of payslips.


It'll be impossible to get bank statements from 10 years back. Not only do I not bank with the same bank anymore I'm also in a totally different country altogether. So all I've got for that first job is everything I've mentioned so far: 3 payslips, reference letter, official visa documents and photos. I might have a copy of a filed tax return as well. Will have to check. But I doubt I have anything else for that job.


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## KeeDa (Sep 1, 2014)

Yes, then better skip that job episode which you think is not relevant.

As for bank statements- if you have the account number or your Indian PAN, try calling customer support to raise a request for the statements. Banks are supposed to maintain the records, so they should have it. I was in the same situation but could get the statements (by email) from two closed accounts at different banks (ING and ICICI) for the period 2002-2004 and 2004-2006.


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## Nostalgia Nut (Feb 11, 2009)

No I wasn't working in India. It was in the US. And I was banking with Wachovia bank. That account is long closed! I believe even the bank name changed to Wells Fargo at some point. Don't know if it's possible to get statements from back then. Will have to find out. Thanks a lot for your advice.


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## Nostalgia Nut (Feb 11, 2009)

But I don't have bank statements for any of my jobs except the the current one. I didn't think it was required because I don't remember seeing it on their document checklists.


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## KeeDa (Sep 1, 2014)

That's right. They haven't mentioned specific guidelines for this. The reason we went into this bank statement related discussion was because of lack of adequate pay slips, and it is only from past observations shared here on the forum that bank statements in lieu of pay slips have worked to satisfy the requirement. You may also try asking the employer for an yearly salary certificate or something similar.


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## Nostalgia Nut (Feb 11, 2009)

That employer is no longer in business. I think they shut shop in 2009 or 2010. And there is no way I can contact my previous boss over there. I tried since last year but couldn't get his contact info from anywhere or anybody. So I hope those 3 payslips will do.

Listen, KeeDa... Do you know anybody or have you seen anyone get rejected because of this issue? Instead of blindly rejecting the visa if they come back to me and ask for more supporting documentation then I can make plans. Worst case I can request that they disregard that particular job. But then my points score may go down to 65.


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## KeeDa (Sep 1, 2014)

Nostalgia Nut said:


> That employer is no longer in business. I think they shut shop in 2009 or 2010. And there is no way I can contact my previous boss over there. I tried since last year but couldn't get his contact info from anywhere or anybody. So I hope those 3 payslips will do.
> 
> Listen, KeeDa... Do you know anybody or have you seen anyone get rejected because of this issue? Instead of blindly rejecting the visa if they come back to me and ask for more supporting documentation then I can make plans. Worst case I can request that they disregard that particular job. But then my points score may go down to 65.


Yes, have heard about this earlier. In absence of sufficient documentation, they will first conduct a verification (without informing you). Although they can conduct such verifications even if there are enough documents. It is at their own discretion. This job verification report will most probably be negative then. Search this forum for keywords "Adverse Info" and "Natural Justice" and read those threads. In short, all this would be high risk and could lead to visa rejection.

65 still is a good enough score to have. Do consider to skip the employment altogether from claiming points.


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## Nostalgia Nut (Feb 11, 2009)

EA recognised that particular employment though, based on all the docs that I supplied. They have included it in the period mentioned in the outcome letter. Do you think the immigration people will give me a hard time despite EA recognising it?

If I decide to exclude this job altogether what do I do? Update my EOI immediately and remove this job from the work experience completely?


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## KeeDa (Sep 1, 2014)

Everybody including those who had to undergo verification and/or failed to prove their points claim too had been through some or the other assessing body who had awarded them the skilled title or skilled work experience in the first place. These assessing bodies never verify anything and they base their result purely on the claims made. It is up to DIBP to verify them. Our ACS result has, and maybe EA result too might have a few statements regarding this.

You don't have to remove the entry. Just mark it as not-relevant in the EOI.


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## Nostalgia Nut (Feb 11, 2009)

Okay thanks a lot! Appreciate your suggestions and help!


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## Nostalgia Nut (Feb 11, 2009)

KeeDa one more thing, please answer when you get a chance. If my points drop from 70 to 65, do my chances of getting picked in the next draw in September get worse? Or not necessarily? I suppose it depends on the occupation. How do I get an idea about my occupation: industrial engineers?


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## KeeDa (Sep 1, 2014)

Cut-off for 233511 is at 60 points and 09-July (as of 03-Aug EOI round). So, all with 65 and above points until 03-Aug have been invited. It is highly unlikely that there will be more 65+ applicants before you (i.e. between 04-Aug till today) that the number of invitations (roughly around 115) to be sent in September. We however will never know these numbers, but looking at past statistics, you should get invited in September with 65 points.

How to know: Visit http://www.border.gov.au/Trav/Work/Skil and check the Occupation Ceilings tab for your occupation. There have been 2 rounds this year. It shows 229 seats have been given away so far, so roughly 115 per month. Then visit the Invitation Rounds tab and check the result for each round to know what the cut-off has been for that round. 233511 is not listed separately there, so it means its cut-off is still at 60 points with a date as listed in the general cut-off table.


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## Pushpinder13 (May 12, 2014)

Hello All,

I had a query regarding my ACS skills assessment and additional experience on which I needed your suggestions.

I completed my ACS skill assessment successfully last year in the month of July 2014 which is valid for 24 months till July 2016. However, later that year (2014) I changed my job to a different organization in Sep 2014 although my work profile and designation remains exactly the same, my current org is not included in the ACS skill assessment letter.

Now while I file the EOI this year I wanted to know if I can include the new job as relevant to my skilled occupation or not, or would I need to get it reassessed by ACS.

Thanks,
Pushpinder


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## Nostalgia Nut (Feb 11, 2009)

Reply to KeeDa:
That's great to hear! I'm not sure if they will or will not change my EOI effective date if I update the EOI now and mark one of the jobs as "not relevant". But that's a better chance to take than to risk rejection due to inadequate documentation. 

Thank you so much for your prompt replies KeeDa. Will have to remember to click on your Thank you button when I get off this phone and go to a computer.


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## rameshrg (Nov 24, 2015)

KeeDa said:


> Forget that invitation. Don't lodge the visa using it and suspend it at the earliest. In the mean time lodge a new EOI with correct points and wait for an invitation based on this new EOI.



Hello Experts,

I am in the same scenario, by mistake I have over claimed five points by including the ACS deducted experience.
Now I got the invite.

Please let me know if I can create a new EOI with the correct points in parallel?
What happens to the existing EOI with the invitation? How to suspend it? 

Thanks,
Ramesh


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## KeeDa (Sep 1, 2014)

rameshrg said:


> Hello Experts,
> 
> I am in the same scenario, by mistake I have over claimed five points by including the ACS deducted experience.
> Now I got the invite.
> ...


Do not proceed with the invited EOI. It will be back in SUBMITTED status after 60 days, withdraw it then.

In the meanwhile create a new one with correct details.


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## nikhil_k (May 16, 2016)

KeeDa said:


> Do not proceed with the invited EOI. It will be back in SUBMITTED status after 60 days, withdraw it then.
> 
> In the meanwhile create a new one with correct details.


Hi Keeda,

I am also in same situation wherein my EOI i included exp which was excluded by ACS. This increased my EOI by 5 points. 
I am inclined to ahead with another EOI with coreect details breaking my exp of 1st job into 2 parts and making the ACS excluded exp as non- relevant.
Hope this does not cause any issue..have you heard a case who have landed in trouble due to again applying even after getting an invite?

Sent from my LG-D855 using Tapatalk


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## zooter80 (Jul 14, 2012)

Hi Everybody,

My ACS report is as follows:

Your qualifications have been assessed as follows: 

Your Master of Computer Application from XXX completed June 2004 has been assessed as comparable to an AQF Master Degree with a major in computing. 

Your Bachelor of XXXX completed April 2000 has been assessed as comparable to an AQF Bachelor Degree with a major in computing. 

The following employment after March 2012 is considered to equate to work at an appropriately skilled level and relevant to 135112 (ICT Project Manager) of the ANZSCO Code. 

Dates: 11/06 - 01/08 (1yrs 2mths) Position: X1 Employer: Y1 Country: INDIA 

Dates: 05/11 - 12/12 (1yrs 7mths) Position: X2 Employer: Y3 Country: INDIA 

Dates: 12/12 - 03/15 (2yrs 3mths) Position: X3 Employer: Y3 Country: AUSTRALIA 

Now, in my EOI I have marked my position as relevant for the job in India March 2012, but can claim 0 points. Only points being claimed are for work experience in Australia.

Now, reading these forums I found that I only need to submit experience documentation for jobs where I'm claiming points. Is that right? Or should I submit experience documentation for jobs where it is considered relevant?

Thanks


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## nikhil_k (May 16, 2016)

zooter80 said:


> Hi Everybody,
> 
> My ACS report is as follows:
> 
> ...


You should give proof for all employment which are relevant even if you are not claiming points for it. 
For example: I am not claiming points for my Australian tenure but that is still counted in relevant experience and i have submitted all proofs as well.

Sent from my LG-D855 using Tapatalk


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## kitcha.nitt.83 (Sep 9, 2015)

zooter80 said:


> Hi Everybody,
> 
> My ACS report is as follows:
> 
> ...


Use this simple logic.
Submit all the work exp in VISA application relevant or non relevant experience which you have submitted for ACS.

As per yours After March 2012 s considered to equate to work at an appropriately skilled level and relevant to 135112 (ICT Project Manager).

Before Mar 2012 also you would have worked as Project Manager. Those work exp
should be considered for non relevant but proofs for work exp required because they are considered as period for gaining the skills of Project Manager Role.

Assuming you are project manager from March 2010 so 2 years they have deducted for gaining the skills.

If you show the proof from March 2012 only. They might deduct 2 years from Mar 2012. So you loose 2 years of relevant exp. So show all of them which you have shown in ACS.


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## zooter80 (Jul 14, 2012)

Nikhil / Kitcha - agreed...


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## Saud131 (Jan 8, 2017)

Hi Keeda,

I need your help. I am in a similar situation of not wanting to claim the work experience. I have 4 years experience which is positively assessed by Engineers Australia. Is it possible that I mark it as not relevant in the EOI? I already have 70 points so I dont want to claim the experience points. Can I mark the experience as non relevant although EA assessed it as relevant?


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