# Racism in NZ



## raven76

I am considering moving to NZ with my wife and family. I am white, however my wife and step son are black and we also have a mixed race son. Does anyone have any experiences of racism in NZ or can advise me if I am making a wrong move emigrating there considering my circumstances.

Thank you.


----------



## topcat83

raven76 said:


> I am considering moving to NZ with my wife and family. I am white, however my wife and step son are black and we also have a mixed race son. Does anyone have any experiences of racism in NZ or can advise me if I am making a wrong move emigrating there considering my circumstances.
> 
> Thank you.


Hi there
You will no doubt receive loads of different views on this question, as unfortunately there will always be a minority who will discriminate based on the colour of somebody's skin. But generally - no - you won't have a problem. 

Auckland is very multicultural. There are a lot of different nationalities here, who generally get on very well with each other. There are also many mixed-race marriages. I can count among my friends a European/Maori married to a Vietnamese (with daughter), a European married to a Japanese (with daughter), a Samoan married to a Chinese (with 2 children), and an Indian descent Brit married to a European. They're all just New Zealanders. There's also a historical population of New Zealand Chinese over here, descended from the Gold Rush days.

You say your wife and son are black - I assume as in from West Indian or African descent? There are not so many here (probably because of our location) but again, I have not heard of any major problems.


----------



## raven76

Topcat, many thanks for your reply, I appreciate you've taken the time. I am actually looking to work in Christchurch. Would this affect the situation?


----------



## topcat83

raven76 said:


> Topcat, many thanks for your reply, I appreciate you've taken the time. I am actually looking to work in Christchurch. Would this affect the situation?


Again, I don't think you'll have a major problem. Christchurch is a lovely city (even with its slightly ragged centre now) and has lovely people. 

And I think in conjunction with many places in the world, cities tend to be more tolerant of 'different'. NZ has many similarities with the UK. Generalising, city people have seen more different cultures than small town/country folk, and are therefore more accepting, and older people have been brought up in a less accepting culture. So an old codger in a small rural out of the way settlement may have more difficulties accepting someone who is different to them than a youngster in a city. 
And same old codger probably won't accept an 'outsider' (black or white or even from the next village) of any description! His loss, eh??


----------



## Guest

Do your homework, there are other sites, some give a starkly contrasting view on
Racism in NZ.

I use this and another site then make my own mind up. Common sense ground is taken.

We are white European Carole a Geordie and me a Yorkie Pud and we love it here but have
only been here 4 weeks. Not a sign of a problem for us and everyone is tops. 

Shane


----------



## YoungsSpecialLondon

By and large, New Zealand has less of a problem with racism than most places. 

I have heard that Christchurch is more racist than other parts of New Zealand. The racism tends to be directed towards people from north-east or south-east Asia.


----------



## Weta

Sweeping generalisation I know, but I would say that of all places Christchurch would be the least racially tolerant or culturally aware, they are largely white and middle classed and don't generally take well to 'foreigners'. 

Yes do your research on other sites also, lots of less than lovely stories I have heard with regards certain people and places and always Christchurch that appears at the centre of any racial tension and right-wing activities. Auckland does have quite a population of black people of South African / Zimbabwean origins and obviously growing as it is less unusual for me to notice but gonna have to be honest and say that even so your wife will be among a very small minority group and likely to get you some stares as a mixed race couple. Also I think you need to brace yourself to hear some less than complimentary racial comments in the media and out of the mouths of work colleagues etc. PC they are not and they don't pretend to even try.

If certain things like afro hair product, hairdresser and foods are important to your wife then I would suggest Auckland would have more to offer and cause you to be less of a novelty, if you understand my drift. Your stepson will however blend very well with the pacific island boys I am sure he'd fit right in Auckland without drawing any unwarranted attention.


----------



## Weta

Hey Raven, thinking about this some more, there's a lovely lady (minor celeb) Masterchef winner Jax Hamilton, she's a Jamaican/Londoner in Christchurch.

You could befriend her on Facebook and I am sure she would answer any concerns you might have or just google the name as there's heaps of media commentary about her and her life, spin off cook-book etc.

Welcome to Facebook - Log In, Sign Up or Learn More

JAX HAMILTON - For the Love of Food


----------



## carosapien

Do your research well Raven.

ChCh is 'home' of white supremacists | Stuff.co.nz

I think the Asian population only get so much 'attention' because they're the most prolific minority group to get picked on, that doesn't mean that the other minorities get it any easier.


----------



## inhamilton

Weta said:


> gonna have to be honest and say that even so your wife will be among a very small minority group and likely to get you some stares as a mixed race couple. .


I think the important word there is 'some'. You've got to remember that NZ has been built on inter-racial marriage. Virtually every kiwi family has members of both Maori and European origin. In fact, such has been the integration, that there is now no full blooded Maori. There are literally tens of thousands of European women married to Maori (mainly) or Pacific or Asian men, and vice versa.
It is true though, there are some right wing thugs and racists in NZ. No matter which country you live in, you'll find them. In NZ's case, that one guy in Christchurch seems to enjoy drawing attention to himself with his racist views. How many people agree with him? Very few, I reckon. That's why they struggle for members.


----------



## Weta

Actually I think you have to be from 'away' from here to appreciate how bad the racism is. If you're a Kiwi you'll be a lot less sensitive to it. There's barely a day goes by that I am not shocked at the comments I hear. 

It is not the case of it being a small minority who bad mouth other races, it trips off the tongue so readily and nobody bats an eyelid. When Raven is at work on his own without his wife, nobody would even consider to think that he would have anything other than a white wife and family at home. 

I'm just telling it as I see it, I see no credence in trying to sweep the elephant under the carpet. I think you would need to have the skin of an elephant to live here as a mixed race family of non-nz origins. The Maori / Pakeha thing is a completely different situation and very intertwined I agree but still it does not deter the average Pakeha from bad mouthing Maori. Just my two cents.


----------



## inhamilton

Weta said:


> It is not the case of it being a small minority who bad mouth other races, it trips off the tongue so readily and nobody bats an eyelid. When Raven is at work on his own without his wife, nobody would even consider to think that he would have anything other than a white wife and family at home.


Perhaps it depends on your workplace. Let me assure you, if people come up with racist stuff at the place I work, people do bat eyelids. It is not accepted at all. You can't assume that because your workplace is like that, then it's like that everywhere. I've never worked anywhere where racist talk trips off the tongue. There might be occasional discussions about land claims etc, but thats a political thing, and the differing views on that don't necessarily follow racial lines.
Not saying that Raven's family won't experience racism though. They may well do. But it won't be from anyone in my workplace or immediate family.


----------



## Belstar

Hi Raven,

Just wondering how you and your family are getting on? Did you make it to NZ?

I had 6 weeks in Auckland in 2001 and did not experience any issues - I am black.

I am now married to a white man with two children and hope to be back in Auckland late 2013 as my husband has a job offer and will be entering NZ as a skilled migrant.

He was worried about racism and I assured him it will be no different to living in any country - there will always be a group who won't like you whatever your skin colour.

Be interesting to see if I'm still right?

Best wishes,

Bel


----------



## topcat83

Belstar said:


> Hi Raven,
> 
> Just wondering how you and your family are getting on? Did you make it to NZ?
> 
> I had 6 weeks in Auckland in 2001 and did not experience any issues - I am black.
> 
> I am now married to a white man with two children and hope to be back in Auckland late 2013 as my husband has a job offer and will be entering NZ as a skilled migrant.
> 
> He was worried about racism and I assured him it will be no different to living in any country - there will always be a group who won't like you whatever your skin colour.
> 
> Be interesting to see if I'm still right?
> 
> Best wishes,
> 
> Bel


Hi there - welcome to the forum. And so glad you enjoyed your time in New Zealand enough to come back!

As you say, there will always be a group of people who will be prejudiced about something, and as European whites we're probably not the best people to comment. But from what I've seen, young NZers in general are pretty good.
You'll probably find there are some less well mannered people (did I say that diplomatically enough?  ) in the older population and smaller out of the way towns - but isn't that just the same in the UK?


----------



## Belstar

Hi Topcat,

NZ is a beautiful country and I had nothing bad to say about it at all. It makes me sad to see the many comments and concerns that people have so much so that they choose to go to another country instead.

My husband's job is in Auckland CBD and we are looking to live within an hours commute of it. We are pretty thick skinned but any concern re racism would be for our children. At 4 and 7, it's not something I would wish on anyone.

However, as I stated before you get racism wherever so we won't let the potential of that put us off.

Cheers,

Belstar


----------



## topcat83

Belstar said:


> Hi Topcat,
> 
> NZ is a beautiful country and I had nothing bad to say about it at all. It makes me sad to see the many comments and concerns that people have so much so that they choose to go to another country instead.
> 
> My husband's job is in Auckland CBD and we are looking to live within an hours commute of it. We are pretty thick skinned but any concern re racism would be for our children. At 4 and 7, it's not something I would wish on anyone.
> 
> However, as I stated before you get racism wherever so we won't let the potential of that put us off.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Belstar


Auckland is by far the most culturally and ethnically mixed city in NZ - in a lot of ways it reminds me of London. And I know many couples from a variety of backgrounds - European & Maori, Samoan & Chinese, European & Japanese, Maori & Vietnamese for a start! It makes for a lovely city, IMHO! (not to mention excellent restaurants.... although I'm still trying to find a decent 'English Indian' - NZ Indian tends to be very mild and covered in a rich creamy sauce - yuk!)


----------



## Belstar

I forgot to say I love your own website. Great info and links and some wonderful photos of Christmas on the beach!

Are you still in healthcare?


----------



## cheeser

As a part Maori who spent the first 40 odd years of life in NZ, there is racism in NZ. Some of it is borne from perceived inequalities and favoritism towards Maori, which to be honest isn't totally unfair.

I can't say for sure, but I think your kids will have a pretty easy time though, especially in Auckland or Wellington. Christchurch has always felt a little strained to me, but that's possibly due to a false perception on my part.


----------



## Belstar

Thanks Cheeser,

I'm sure they will and appreciate you taking the time to let me know.

Belstar


----------



## tamarisk

I've heard a lot of unpleasant casual racism - think of 1970s England when people didn't even really think / care about being racist, but made comments, imitated accents etc etc as if was just acceptable. In NZ it seems mostly aimed at Chinese people - not nice for them - but you may be fine!


----------



## Belstar

They don't show re runs of Love Thy Neighbour do they???

I'm a firm believer in acting and carrying yourself how you want to be treated and we lead by example to show our children how to be respectful to everyone.

My husband and I were talking last night and I said there are parts of the UK I wouldn't feel comfortable in as a black person as I'm sure can be said about any race in any country - why should NZ be any different?


----------



## Andrew East

Yes you're correct of course, why should New Zealand be any different? The only difference will be you and how you feel about it, i.e. you'll be an immigrant in New Zealand whereas you're not an immigrant in Britain. At first that could make you a little more sensitive that you'd expect to be.

Its highly likely that your children could be mistaken for Melanesian Pacific Islanders, which may not be a bad thing depending on where you live but when it comes to racial profiling there is a pecking order that you should be aware of. Asians come at the bottom, followed by Pacific Islanders then Maori, South Africans, Americans and then Europeans. Top most are European Kiwis. How and when you experience racism in New Zealand may depend on who's doing the pecking and where they perceive you to fit in in the overall scheme of things. 

If you take away one thing from your question it should be this. New Zealand is officially bi-cultural and there are two official languages English and Maori (and Sign of course). If you want to adapt quickly decide which one you want to identify with most.


----------



## Belstar

Hi, thanks for that.

With their facial features and colouring, I doubt that they will be mistaken for Pacific Islanders and once they open their mouths, I doubt that too. My Husband and I are from the Midlands and Liverpool and shudder at how our children pronounce words like bath and grass!

We are looking at properties in St. Heliers, Glendowie and Campbells and Castor Bay as well as Bayswater and Greenhithe. 

Any insider knowledge on those areas?

Cheers,

Bel


----------



## Kimbella

raven76 said:


> I am considering moving to NZ with my wife and family. I am white, however my wife and step son are black and we also have a mixed race son. Does anyone have any experiences of racism in NZ or can advise me if I am making a wrong move emigrating there considering my circumstances.
> 
> Thank you.


Hi Raven,

I'm Caucasian, live in Christchurch, and come from a very racially diverse population in California.

It is *very* white here, whiter than I have ever experienced. The first time I went to the movies at the mall with my (white kiwi husband), as we waited in the lobby I was gobsmacked that every. single. person. was white. 

I have found that the people that I associate with are not racist (that I can tell), but they do like to "rib" people for their nationality or racial backgrounds--however, it is in jest, and is light hearted enough. I've mentioned before on this forum that what I find is that people tend to be more curious than put off by new nationalities or races--although the posters below are correct--they is an absolute undercurrent of distaste for asians and south east asians. In my opinion, it stems from feeling threatening (to be honest), threatened that the stakes kiwis have made in this country and being over-taken by an "asian tsumani." Completely short sighted, ignorant, and over-simplifying a complex subject, but it does exist. 

I think you will probably find over-all that Chch is welcoming to your family, and although there is apparently some sort of "******" movement here--I can promise you that in my two years here I have not heard, seen, nor read about it. If I had, I would have packed the family up to go to a counter protest. 
Although Chch is very white, the social fabric and landscape is definitely changing as new and necessary immigrants come in to help with the rebuild. The city is gorgeous, and I really think it is going through a period of growth and acceptance that is probably long overdue, and frankly, most residents just want people here who are good at what they do to get on with the rebuilding!

Cheers,

Kimberly


----------



## topcat83

Andrew East said:


> .... when it comes to racial profiling there is a pecking order that you should be aware of. Asians come at the bottom, followed by Pacific Islanders then Maori, South Africans, Americans and then Europeans. Top most are European Kiwis....


I can't say I've seen this at all! 

However I can understand the comment about do they do runs of 'Love thy Neighbour' - New Zealand is definitely less politically correct than the UK is now! And looking back to the 70's (when LTN was shown) it was in some respects ahead of it's time in that it showed any non-whites at all. I'd look at it as the fingernail in the crack that allowed for the introduction of a more multicultural future. But very cringingly embarrassingly racist to look at now. 

I find the fact that you can say things that are blatantly obvious (but considerably un-PC in the UK) quite refreshing. Let me give you an example... in the UK my son had two girls called Vanessa in his class. One was blue-eyed, blonde haired and fair skinned. One was back haired, black eyed and dark skinned. When asked which Vanessa he meant he would answer 'The one with the longer hair'. Now that probably isn't the most obvious distinguishing feature of either...


----------



## cheeser

Belstar said:


> We are looking at properties in St. Heliers, Glendowie and Campbells and Castor Bay as well as Bayswater and Greenhithe.


Wow, those are nice suburbs!

I don't know about racism in those areas, but everything else will be awesome!


----------



## Belstar

cheeser said:


> Wow, those are nice suburbs!
> 
> I don't know about racism in those areas, but everything else will be awesome!


Thanks Cheeser,

We are moving so that our family can have a better quality of life without my husband spending 4 hours of each day commuting to work and 10 hours + at work.

That means living in arears that can give us the lifestyle that we yearn for as a family. And if I can add a little colour too, then brilliant :


----------



## anski

Belstar said:


> Hi, thanks for that.
> 
> With their facial features and colouring, I doubt that they will be mistaken for Pacific Islanders and once they open their mouths, I doubt that too. My Husband and I are from the Midlands and Liverpool and shudder at how our children pronounce words like bath and grass!
> 
> We are looking at properties in St. Heliers, Glendowie and Campbells and Castor Bay as well as Bayswater and Greenhithe.
> 
> Any insider knowledge on those areas?
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Bel


I lived in Mission Bay for 12 years until moving to Napier earlier this year. Mission Bay is one of the bay suburbs & adjoins Kohimarama & St. Heliers. Although it is predominantly "white" there were several other residents from Asia, India, Africa etc living in my street & I never was aware of any racial discrimination & only those that can afford to live there do. You will find a large number of Pacific Islanders living in Glen Innes, although that area Is changing. It is beginning to get a knock on effect as being a cheaper alternative to the bays especially now Housing New Zealand is selling off a lot of it's State Housing. Having lived in South Africa for many years during Apartheid I can assure you that MOST people in NZ are not racially prejudiced.


----------

