# 6 months in Madrid: Childcare, housing



## EmmaNZ (Oct 23, 2014)

Hi there,

We are planning on spending January-July in Madrid as a way of testing whether we want to live in the city full time. My husband and I speak intermediate Spanish already but would like to get to advanced stage by the end of the stay.

We visited in November and stayed in the Arganzuela area. The area suited us perfectly and we would like to stay there again but can't find much info about childcare. We have a 2.5 year old and we want him fully immersed in Spanish. 
Ideally we would like somewhere that does half days but we are flexible. 

Can anyone recommend a guarderia in the neighbourhood? Or anywhere close to the centro. Also some indication of the fees would be great. As we won't be working or paying into the system so all costs need to be planned for.

Also is it likely a landlord would rent to us for 6 months? I've had a look on idealista and there are plenty of apartments but I'm assuming they want longer leases. We might end up staying longer but don't want to over commit and we have to return to New Zealand by the end of the year for business reason.

My husband and son have EU citizenship and my husband will be asserting EU treaty rights so I can stay longer than my usual 90 day tourist visa.

Thanks in advance,
Emma


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

EmmaNZ said:


> Also is it likely a landlord would rent to us for 6 months? I've had a look on idealista and there are plenty of apartments but I'm assuming they want longer leases. We might end up staying longer but don't want to over commit and we have to return to New Zealand by the end of the year for business reason.
> 
> My husband and son have EU citizenship and my husband will be asserting EU treaty rights so I can stay longer than my usual 90 day tourist visa.
> 
> ...


Hmmm, not sure about the visa issue - you might want to get official clarification on this.

Regarding renting - long-term lets are now for 6 or 12 months (any shorter and they are really holiday lets and may well be more expensive). Most landlords will want you to stay for longer (I'm sure) but the rules are clear on this. Sign a proper, legal contract, only give one or two months deposit (fianza) and you will be fine. Provided you give one months notice, you can leave when you want after 6 months.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

snikpoh said:


> Hmmm, not sure about the visa issue - you might want to get official clarification on this.
> 
> Regarding renting - long-term lets are now for 6 or 12 months (any shorter and they are really holiday lets and may well be more expensive). Most landlords will want you to stay for longer (I'm sure) but the rules are clear on this. Sign a proper, legal contract, only give one or two months deposit (fianza) and you will be fine. Provided you give one months notice, you can leave when you want after 6 months.


the visa issue is fine

her husband would have to register as resident, but as soon as that is done, she can apply for residency as the 'spouse of an EU citizen exercising treaty rights'


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## EmmaNZ (Oct 23, 2014)

Thanks for the info on renting snikpoh. As Xabiachica states we are quite sure our visa plan will work but I will do more research to clarify.

Xabiachica - we looked into other parts of Costa Blanca & Costa Azahar but the language taught at preschools was Valenciano, is that the case in Javea?


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

EmmaNZ said:


> Thanks for the info on renting snikpoh. As Xabiachica states we are quite sure our visa plan will work but I will do more research to clarify.
> 
> Xabiachica - we looked into other parts of Costa Blanca & Costa Azahar but the language taught at preschools was Valenciano, is that the case in Javea?


There are some English run private preschools in and near Javea, but the state and private Spanish run ones teach in both Castellano and Valenciano


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## EmmaNZ (Oct 23, 2014)

Thanks Xabiachica, I was under the impression that only Valenciano was taught. Good to know they teach in Castellano also, as that is our focus. If Madrid doesn't work out the area around Gandia - Daimus to be specific - was our second preference.


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## Chopera (Apr 22, 2013)

Regarding guardarias:

We've been living in Arganzuela for 8 years now. The guardaria we have used most is http://pasoapasoescuela.com, mainly because they give an extra point for getting into the school next door. Most children start school in the year they are 3 so many guardarías only take children until that age, on the assumption that they then start school. We have also used Escuela Infantil Cosquillas and a couple of others. This one also has a good reputation: Busca tu escuela infantil Projardin.

At "Paso a Paso" we pay something like €440/month but we get €100/month back from the council. They are a bit more expensive than some of the others, but they are fine, as is Cosquillas. I think they all do half days, but it won't be half the price - maybe €100/month less.

If there's any chance of moving to Madrid/Spain permanently then it's worth getting your child into a school next year (you need to apply next April/May and you need to be registered/empadronado in the area you are applying within). The child will start in September and you will pay very little. If you don't want to do that then this guardaria takes children up until 6 years: Escuela Infantil Pipos


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## EmmaNZ (Oct 23, 2014)

Chopera - thanks so much for the detailed reply. That is very helpful.
Can I ask if the 100euro you get back is a general subsidy or income related? I'm assuming as we won't be paying into the system we won't get anything back.

I wonder if we can even register in the area if we are not employed? As we will be supporting ourselves with savings and income from New Zealand we don't want to stuff up our tax residency.

I intend to suss out the English teaching situation and may take a CELTA course in Madrid if it seems a viable career option but at this stage we plan to study Spanish and enjoy life in Madrid.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

EmmaNZ said:


> Chopera - thanks so much for the detailed reply. That is very helpful.
> Can I ask if the 100euro you get back is a general subsidy or income related? I'm assuming as we won't be paying into the system we won't get anything back.
> 
> I wonder if we can even register in the area if we are not employed? As we will be supporting ourselves with savings and income from New Zealand we don't want to stuff up our tax residency.
> ...


usually for any kind of subsidies you would have to provide tax returns - & as long as you stay here less than 183 days Jan 1st to Dec 31st you won't be tax resident so won't be able to do that

however - if you are working - even online with all your clients outside Spain, you _should_ register here as self-employed, even if only planning to stay s few months

bear in mind, that you will have to show proof of funds/income as part of your application for residency - as will your husband when he registers as resident


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## EmmaNZ (Oct 23, 2014)

Thanks Xabiachica - do you think we will even be able to enrol our son in a guarderia before registering? Or is the registration number required for enrolment in services such as childcare?


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

EmmaNZ said:


> Thanks Xabiachica - do you think we will even be able to enrol our son in a guarderia before registering? Or is the registration number required for enrolment in services such as childcare?


legally you only have to be registered on the padrón to access the state education system

education is only obligatory from age 6 though, so places in state guarderías / infantíl aren't guaranteed in any case

so you might find yourself having to pay for a private one regardless - & as often as not they only care if you can pay the bill - not about what paperwork you might or might not have


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## EmmaNZ (Oct 23, 2014)

That situation suits us perfectly! 
Although the cost of childcare in Madrid is a lot more than I was expecting but coming from New Zealand we have high subsidies so the real cost is probably the same or less. If we want to stay at least we only have to pay for 6 months of childcare as he turns 3 in July.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

EmmaNZ said:


> That situation suits us perfectly!
> Although the cost of childcare in Madrid is a lot more than I was expecting but coming from New Zealand we have high subsidies so the real cost is probably the same or less. If we want to stay at least we only have to pay for 6 months of childcare as he turns 3 in July.


why does the fact that he turns 3 in July make a difference?


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## EmmaNZ (Oct 23, 2014)

Because we can then apply for preschool if we are staying and registered etc. I believe it is a lot cheaper than private daycare.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

EmmaNZ said:


> Because we can then apply for preschool if we are staying and registered etc. I believe it is a lot cheaper than private daycare.


yes you can apply - & it's free

but as I said, because _obligatory_ education doesn't start until age 6, there are often not enough places to go around

so there's no guarantee that a place would be available - they tend to go to siblings & other close family members of children already attending, first


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## EmmaNZ (Oct 23, 2014)

Oh right.
So once we know what we are doing we have to get in quick and hope! That's great to know. Thanks.


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## Chopera (Apr 22, 2013)

EmmaNZ said:


> Chopera - thanks so much for the detailed reply. That is very helpful.
> Can I ask if the 100euro you get back is a general subsidy or income related? I'm assuming as we won't be paying into the system we won't get anything back.
> 
> I wonder if we can even register in the area if we are not employed? As we will be supporting ourselves with savings and income from New Zealand we don't want to stuff up our tax residency.
> ...


I think you need to be working to get the €100. If you are trying to stay less than 6 months for tax reasons then I'm not sure how the residency thing will work out. I think the guardarias in general don't have any issues with taking your money if you are non-resident, after all they are just private companies and right now there is a shortage of business for them. I'd be more concerned about medical insurance, and making sure you have all the documents in place in case you have an emergency.

Obviously I don't know your exact situation, but if it were me I'd try to make a 2 year plan for wherever you choose to go. Not only because that would give your child time to integrate and become fully bilingual, but also it'll help you focus on trying to make whatever you do work out for those 2 years. If you choose Madrid and are interested in teaching, then many academies run TEFL courses in September with a view to employing you for the following year. You will also find many guardarias will be interested in employing you for a few hours each week, just to speak English with the children. You shouldn't have a problem picking up bits of work here and there, it won't be well paid but it will help pad out your other income. If you only stay for 6 months then you'll (hopefully) still have a great experience but you'll have less to take away at the end of it. Your son will forget the Spanish he has learnt and the 6 months in Spain will become a dim and distant memory as you become immersed in whatever you do next. I think 2 years would give you enough time to get the most out of Spain and, if you've had enough at the end of it, you've still got time to move elsewhere and get your son into a primary school there (of course that depends on where you go). After 2 years you should also be quite fluent in Spanish as well, which might give you something to build on.

You'd need to investigate any dual tax arrangements between Spain and New Zealand so you don't get stung twice for the same income, but you'll know more about that than me anyway.


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## Chopera (Apr 22, 2013)

EmmaNZ said:


> Oh right.
> So once we know what we are doing we have to get in quick and hope! That's great to know. Thanks.


I went through the process of getting our (now) 4 year old into school last year. There is competition for getting your child into the schools with most demand, thats' why we sent our child to the guardaría I mentioned above, because they practically guarateed getting their children into the school next door. Once into that school, you have to fork out a few hundred on uniform at the beginning of term, maybe €120/month on food if you choose not to feed him at home (I can't remember the exact amount) and about €50/month "voluntary contribution". The downside is that your child is there from 9 to 5 so it's a long day for them and there's no half day option, but they do have a 2 hour lunch break which they can spend at home.


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## Chopera (Apr 22, 2013)

Regarding schools I should clarify further, there are 3 types: state, private and concertado. Concertados are private schools subsidised by the state so they are nearly free (our son goes to one, and that's where that €50/month "voluntary contribution" comes from, and that's why he has to wear a uniform - it's another source of income for them). State schools don't have these associated costs so they are cheaper, although they tend to have shorter days (maybe 9 to 3) so if neither parent can look after the child from that time they usually have to pay extra for after school activities anyway.

There are also state run guardarias that take children up until the age of 3 and they are free, but they are difficult to get into (in Madrid at least).

All 3 types of school usually take a certain amount of children from the age of 3, and then might open a few extra classes for the 6 year old intake. But most parents want to get their kids into school at 3 both to make sure they get a place but also because it is effectively cheap/free child care for them, so both parents can then work. Compared to the UK for example, this is a real bonus. Salaries in Spain are lower than the UK, but for parents of young children this is often more than compensated for by the low cost of childcare.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

FYI guarderias - the staff have to be professionally qualified. Beware of church schools run by nuns, many of the nuns have had very little education, after age 13, themselves and are more interested in religious indoctrination than scholastic education. Our local opticians daughters go to one and they are hopeless educationally and so introverted and shy that one has to use tweezers to extract an answer to the question "What is your name"


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## Chopera (Apr 22, 2013)

baldilocks said:


> FYI guarderias - the staff have to be professionally qualified. Beware of church schools run by nuns, many of the nuns have had very little education, after age 13, themselves and are more interested in religious indoctrination than scholastic education. Our local opticians daughters go to one and they are hopeless educationally and so introverted and shy that one has to use tweezers to extract an answer to the question "What is your name"


Yes, not only can the indoctrination be quite an eye opener for those unaccustomed to that kind of thing, but also it can be quite difficult for children who aren't catholic to fit in. Maybe not at the age of 3, but as they get older they can be singled out as "different" by the other kids. Most concertados are catholic (although the one our child goes to isn't).


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