# Marriage Visitor Visa/Giving Notice



## hayburner (Feb 2, 2012)

Hi, I am new here.

I am engaged to a British man. Here in the US, I am seeking permission of the court to remove my daughter to the UK. We were planning to marry on a fiance visa after that time.

Due to the nature of the court case, I was advised to marry ahead of time in order to have my case heard. We have made plans to marry in April of this year (2012). We were happy to do so, as either way we planned to marry.

I researched the Visitor for Marriage Visa, since I will be returning until the case is heard (October) and then until I can arrange to relocate.

While visiting in January, my fiance and I visited the register office and gave notice to marry. We had all our official documents with us, and several days after our appointment, we received a letter in the mail stating we'd been approved.

Since my return, I have applied for the Marriage Visitor Visa and am awaiting approval.

However, just this evening while casually reading about the visa, I noticed that it sounds as if we should not have been able to give notice without already having the visa.

Now, I researched this visa for weeks, months even, and nowhere had I read that we needed it first to give notice. We went before applying and were approved. It was my impression from everything I read-- everything, even the UK border site-- that we needed the visa for the actual wedding trip, which is April. Not for giving the notice before that.

So, now that my information has been sent, I am wondering how this will impact our wedding plans, if at all. Everything is booked. We've done our best to be careful and do things correctly. We have given notice and been approved. Do I even need the visa now?

Very confused. Thank you.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

hayburner said:


> Hi, I am new here.
> 
> I am engaged to a British man. Here in the US, I am seeking permission of the court to remove my daughter to the UK. We were planning to marry on a fiance visa after that time.
> 
> ...


You were in the wrong on this. You should not have given notice while you were in UK as a general visitor, as it's against the conditions of your stay. See UK Border Agency | Can you come to the UK as a general visitor?

_You must also be able to show that, during your visit, you do *not *intend to:
marry or register a civil partnership, or *give notice of marriage *or civil partnership;_

True, you were able to give notice because under UK marriage law you can, but under immigration law you should not have done so.

What effect all this will have on your wedding plan and your application for spouse visa? You can still get married as planned. It's when you come to apply for your settlement visa you need to own up. It's best to be honest and acknowledge you made a mistake and show remorse. They may let you off. Don't try to hide or gloss over, as they will soon find out what you did (no record of marriage visitor visa being issued before giving notice) and your integrity will be questioned - misleading or hiding material fact from immigration service.

It's not a big deal and you will probably be ok, but just be upfront and hope for the best.

If only you had asked us here before you gave notice!


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## hayburner (Feb 2, 2012)

Oh Joppa thank you for your quick reply. I am feeling some relief this evening. I truly did not know and I will just have to explain that when the time comes. I really did research everything thoroughly (so I thought). As for asking here, I only found the forum tonight when panicking about the newly discovered information. I guess in my research of the marriage visitor visa, I failed to look up the details of the general visitor, and there I would have found it.

It seems there should be stated somewhere, within the marriage visitor visa information, that the visa must be in hand to give notice. I was expecting to be asked for it at the border and/or ceremony in April when I told the customs officer the reason for my visit. 

So when my application is received this week, the person reviewing it will not hold that against me and (hopefully) still issue it?

After having booked plane tickets for my mother, and daughter, and put deposits down, and mailed the invitations (this week), I was really worried that we would not be able to marry at all and so, thank you for the peace of mind. Being that it was a mistake that was so easy to make, hopefully they will understand when I cross that bridge for the settlement visa.

Thanks again.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

hayburner said:


> Oh Joppa thank you for your quick reply. I am feeling some relief this evening. I truly did not know and I will just have to explain that when the time comes. I really did research everything thoroughly (so I thought). As for asking here, I only found the forum tonight when panicking about the newly discovered information. I guess in my research of the marriage visitor visa, I failed to look up the details of the general visitor, and there I would have found it.
> 
> It seems there should be stated somewhere, within the marriage visitor visa information, that the visa must be in hand to give notice. I was expecting to be asked for it at the border and/or ceremony in April when I told the customs officer the reason for my visit.
> 
> ...


Write a letter addressed to the Entry Clearance Officer, UKBA, NY Consulate, and state that you made an honest mistake when you gave notice of marriage while on a general visit. Say you didn't know about the need to have a marriage visitor visa for it and you didn't intend to flout the immigration law and you are truly sorry. Say it's always your intention to observe all the conditions of a visa or leave. Put the letter on top of your pile of supporting documents after your biometric receipt.

Hope on reading it they will smile and move on.


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## hayburner (Feb 2, 2012)

They were sent today overnight to arrive tomorrow. :-(


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

hayburner said:


> They were sent today overnight to arrive tomorrow. :-(


You have only applied for marriage visitor visa, haven't you? I meant the letter should go with your spouse settlement visa application later on.


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## hayburner (Feb 2, 2012)

Yes, correct. OK thank you! In my answer to their asking what preparations have been done for the wedding I stated in the marriage visitor visa app that notice had been given, approved, and wedding venue booked. I just didn't want them to read that and think why did she already do that and then reject the marriage visitor visa.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

hayburner said:


> Yes, correct. OK thank you! In my answer to their asking what preparations have been done for the wedding I stated in the marriage visitor visa app that notice had been given, approved, and wedding venue booked. I just didn't want them to read that and think why did she already do that and then reject the marriage visitor visa.


I see, so they will know you have boken the rules.
It's too late to do anything now, as they won't accept any further documents or information once the package reaches them. 
Just keep your fingers crossed and pray.

If they throw out your application, and if there is no right of appeal for marriage visitor visa (the accompanying letter will tell you and also about reasons for refusal), just make a fresh application ($125 isn't too steep) enclosing this time your letter of apology and explanation.

Or they may phone you and ask some questions before issuing your visa.


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## hayburner (Feb 2, 2012)

OK thank you, I will let you know what happens. :/

Thank you so much.


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## hayburner (Feb 2, 2012)

Just received the email stating they have received and opened my application package and organized it in preparation for consideration by an Entry Clearance Officer.

I've been so nervous about my huge, dumb mistake ever since realizing it the other evening. I just hope I have time to re apply and that they will be understanding.

More as I learn more...


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## hayburner (Feb 2, 2012)

Hi Everyone,

I'm writing to share some good news. I've spent the last 4 days or so just preparing to have to deal with fallout from incorrectly applying for the visa.

Today I got this email:

"Your UK visa has been issued.

We encourage you to give feedback on the UK visa application process at: UKBA Visa Services Customer Survey

Delivery times: 

Within the USA: Next business day 
Outside the USA: 2-5 days


Your passport will be dispatched from the New York office and will be delivered by UPS (tracking number omitted from expatforum)

Package tracking status on ups.com will appear as 'Billing Information Received' before UPS pick up your package from our office and up to 24 hours afterward while they update their system. 
This is an automated reply - please do not respond"


I would like to thank Joppa for her very quick response times during my time of panic, especially as a newbie here. I am stunned that I received it, as I was completely expecting to have to re-apply when my documents were returned, and possibly move the date of our wedding, including paying penalties on our airfare.

I have rarely felt this kind of relief in my life. As I say, I am flabbergasted that it was issued. All I can think is that they saw I obviously had no clue of the rule, as I stated in my application I'd given notice, and the person reviewing it was very understanding.

I wish I could thank that person as well.


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## vmpl (Aug 27, 2011)

I've been following this thread and just wanted to say congratulations this is great news


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

I am a bloke but I'm glad you have been successful (though you can't be 100% certain until you open your package).


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## hayburner (Feb 2, 2012)

I'm sorry Joppa I didn't know you were male! lol

Should I worry at this point given the wording of the email? What could the package have different if it says "visa has been issued"?

Thank you!


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

hayburner said:


> I'm sorry Joppa I didn't know you were male! lol
> 
> Should I worry at this point given the wording of the email? What could the package have different if it says "visa has been issued"?


Yes it says that but it's just standard wording. A few people had received the same email but on opening their package found a letter stating why their visa has been denied. Because of privacy law, they cannot say in an email whether you have been successful or not, as it may be read by someone other than the intended recipient. So they should change the wording as: 'I have completed processing your application. Your passport and supporting documents are being returned...etc.' 

So you cannot be 100% certain until you get your package, but in vast majority of cases people have received their visa.


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## hayburner (Feb 2, 2012)

Joppa et al--

Visa in hand!!!!


While I'm on here I should probably also verify that my mother and daughter do not need any type of visa to just come and attend my wedding. They are leaving straight after (next morning) while I stay on for several weeks.


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## hayburner (Feb 2, 2012)

I didn't have any letter or correspondence of any kind accompanying my returned docs with the visa. Should I have expected anything?


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

hayburner said:


> I didn't have any letter or correspondence of any kind accompanying my returned docs with the visa. Should I have expected anything?


Only if you have been turned down. So you are fine.


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## Ukbound23 (Mar 3, 2013)

This thread is a bit old, but I am happy I found it as my fiance and I are on the same situation!

While visiting the UK last month we gave notice to marry. Before the appointment we checked several times with them and we were assured that it would be ok. But two days ago I randomly saw that I should not have given notice. We are applying for my fiance visa next week so now I am worried about being refused! Did you have any problems with your spouse visa? Joppa, do you recommend I write the letter you described? We also have an email from the registar stating it was ok to give notice, but I recognise the ultimate responsibility falls on us.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Ukbound23 said:


> This thread is a bit old, but I am happy I found it as my fiance and I are on the same situation!
> 
> While visiting the UK last month we gave notice to marry. Before the appointment we checked several times with them and we were assured that it would be ok. But two days ago I randomly saw that I should not have given notice. We are applying for my fiance visa next week so now I am worried about being refused! Did you have any problems with your spouse visa? Joppa, do you recommend I write the letter you described? We also have an email from the registar stating it was ok to give notice, but I recognise the ultimate responsibility falls on us.


The immigration rules state you mustn't enter UK as a general visitor with the intention of giving notice for marriage. The registrar only deals with UK marriage law and under it there is nothing to stop you giving notice. So I suggest you attach a note stating why you had a sudden change of plan and decided to give notice of marriage during your visit (because you wanted to bring forward your wedding date?)


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## Ukbound23 (Mar 3, 2013)

Thanks for your reply Joppa,

We could say that but are relunctant to as we made the appointment months in advance!

We spoke to the town hall and they have changed our initial wedding ceremony to a commitment ceremony since my family and friends have made plans. We plan on giving notice again in the summer then having a small legal ceremony after. The two ceremonies can be easily explained in the cover letter so will we need to mention the first notice in the application? Do they have access to notice records?

Also, I have a different question. I have done a lot of traveling and backpacking the past ten years and have worked abroad also. In the section where I am asked for past travel history, date, purpose, duration etc. It doesn't even give enough room for my first year. How should I list everything? I have never overstayed nor have been refused a visa if that makes a dıfference.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Ukbound23 said:


> Thanks for your reply Joppa,
> 
> We could say that but are relunctant to as we made the appointment months in advance!
> 
> We spoke to the town hall and they have changed our initial wedding ceremony to a commitment ceremony since my family and friends have made plans. We plan on giving notice again in the summer then having a small legal ceremony after. The two ceremonies can be easily explained in the cover letter so will we need to mention the first notice in the application? Do they have access to notice records?


UKBA won't be interested in non-legal ceremony like commitment, so leave that out. You can just mention it in your supporting letters as evidence of genuine relationship.



> Also, I have a different question. I have done a lot of traveling and backpacking the past ten years and have worked abroad also. In the section where I am asked for past travel history, date, purpose, duration etc. It doesn't even give enough room for my first year. How should I list everything? I have never overstayed nor have been refused a visa if that makes a dıfference.


Attach extra sheet.


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## WestCoastCanadianGirl (Mar 17, 2012)

Ukbound23 said:


> -> snip <-
> 
> Also, I have a different question. I have done a lot of traveling and backpacking the past ten years and have worked abroad also. In the section where I am asked for past travel history, date, purpose, duration etc. It doesn't even give enough room for my first year. How should I list everything? I have never overstayed nor have been refused a visa if that makes a dıfference.


What I did for my application was, as Joppa has stated, filled out my answers on a blank piece of paper.

I opened a word processing document and typed my name, visa reference number and type of visa I was applying for in the upper left hand corner. (I put this information on the top left hand corner of every page of the word processing document)

I then skipped a couple of line spaces and then typed out the question number and the question, skipped a line and answered it... 

for example, I'd had a number of passports over a 10 year period through loss & expiration so I did the following:



> 2.7 _*Please give details of any previous passports, covering the last 10 years, including where these passports are now*_
> 
> 2001 Canadian 5 Year Passport.  Passport number: Unknown. Location of passport: Expired and replaced by 5 Year Passport 2006 issue. Passport destroyed.
> 
> ...



I am also a travel junkie and had to spend some time thinking and writing down everywhere I'd been between 2002 and 2012... this was made especially difficult given the fact that I live 16 miles north of Blaine, WA (2 hours north of Seattle) and as such I was a regular "same day" visitor to Washington State. For this section, I used the wording/set up of the application form as a template on how to present all of my trips out of Vancouver. (I'm sorry that the formatting didn't work out... it was all nice and aligned when I typed it out but after I hit "post reply," it went all wonky  ... however, if you have a look at the box at question 6.2 of the application form, you'll get the gist of what I was trying to do.



> 6.2 _*have you travelled outside your country of residence (excluding to the uK) in the last 10 years?
> *_
> Date Destination Purpose Duration
> 2002 Bellingham, WA Shopping <12 hours
> ...


Probably a little overkill in the details, but I figured that since they've asked, I'll tell them everything, including the overnight to Paris I took when I was visiting Ed for his birthday (I made an error on the customs card and was almost refused to board the Eurostar back to London... fortunately the IO was kind and let me board the train). 

I didn't feel that I could be reasonably expected to come up with every single day trip to Washington State (I couldn't depend on my passport, as it isn't routinely stamped when I go to the USA by car) and since I knew that I'd not had enough spare time off of work to make any more than 5 of those types of trips per year, I just arbitrarily stated "less than 5 trips."

I also made sure to specify that I voluntarily left the Cayman Islands and went home after my work contract ended so that they'd see that I wasn't necessarily an overstay risk.

Anyway, that's how much detail I went into on my initial application. I tried to be as specific as possible whenever I could.


Good luck to you.


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## Ukbound23 (Mar 3, 2013)

Thank you WCCG!

For some of my travel I will be able to do that but others will be more complicated. For example, about 8 years ago I spent about a year traveling in Europe, sometimes going back to places I had been before, sometimes in Sch., Sometimes I just had stamps as the train was going through a country to get somewhere else. Therefore I can remember exact dates, or when I did what, some of my stamps are hard to read, I don't have some from when I was in the Sch. Countries. I also have an extension in my passport so there are many pages which are hard to read! Are there any recommendations how to write this? I fear putting down exact info incase they request immigration information and my memory was wrong!


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## WestCoastCanadianGirl (Mar 17, 2012)

Ukbound23 said:


> Thank you WCCG!
> 
> For some of my travel I will be able to do that but others will be more complicated. For example, about 8 years ago I spent about a year traveling in Europe, sometimes going back to places I had been before, sometimes in Sch., Sometimes I just had stamps as the train was going through a country to get somewhere else. Therefore I can remember exact dates, or when I did what, some of my stamps are hard to read, I don't have some from when I was in the Sch. Countries. I also have an extension in my passport so there are many pages which are hard to read! Are there any recommendations how to write this? I fear putting down exact info incase they request immigration information and my memory was wrong!


Just try to be as honest and accurate as you can.... that's all that they can ask of you.

Perhaps during the year you spent in Europe specify that you were in Europe for a year and traveling around and that while you visited X countries during your stay (some you re-visited), you also have stamps for Y countries through which you transited by train but did not stop.


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## Ukbound23 (Mar 3, 2013)

Thank you again!

That is a good idea. A few summers ago I had a busy travel summer, it was also when I met my fiance so I remember details better but some stamps are just not very clear. I am assuming they ask this info to look for dishonesty and questionable travel destinations. I had quit a well paying position to get the travel bug out so I hope they don't hold that against me!


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## Vicky710 (Jul 11, 2013)

Joppa said:


> Write a letter addressed to the Entry Clearance Officer, UKBA, NY Consulate, and state that you made an honest mistake when you gave notice of marriage while on a general visit. Say you didn't know about the need to have a marriage visitor visa for it and you didn't intend to flout the immigration law and you are truly sorry. Say it's always your intention to observe all the conditions of a visa or leave. Put the letter on top of your pile of supporting documents after your biometric receipt.
> 
> Hope on reading it they will smile and move on.


My finance and I are on the same situation. I'm studying in England and he is studying in Germany. We gave notice on his general visitor visa during his last visit. When preparing for the visitor for marriage visa, we found that it breach the immigration rules to give notice before this application. Is there by any chance the immigration office accept the explanation of the honest mistake and issue the visa, please? I‘m quite upset and nervous these days. We haven't submit the application yet for I'm worrying he might be rejected and get a visa ban as a penalty.


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## Babbs87 (Feb 12, 2014)

*Fiancee visa denied*

Hi joppa have some advice... We kinda of did the same thing giving notice while my finace came over from the usa to uk... Then we found out after he is supposed to have a vistor marraige visa, we sent of for it, amd got denied because they say hus inteion is to settle in the uk, at the time he was living at his step mom house, but we now have our own place, he has copy of the lease, we didnt send of the marriage certificate which send of, with the documents to, he has a red stamp in his passport, because if this, we have the right to appeal, how would we start the appeal 
If you can help we much abliged...
Thanks


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## clwillia (Jul 27, 2014)

What was the result of all of this? I'd love for you to share!


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