# Australian citizenship residence calculation - Please clarify (especially OzBound



## elemental (Oct 25, 2016)

Hi Guys, Ozbound,

I read a post (by ozbound) that said that if you are outside of Australia for more than 1 year after making initial entry, then the 4 year citizenship clock is reset and starts calculating again. I am not sure about this looking at the citizenship calculator. Could you please look at the screenshot attached (also, same details given below - just so if the screenshot does not attach correctly). Why is this showing that Residence requirements have been met even though the tentative dates have been input to show that the dates outside Au have been more than 1 year in between initial entry and actual entry ? Is the lawful residence date in the input correct taking into consideration the dates outside Au ? 

Please let me know if the calculation is correct ? Or the input needs to change ?


Input Details below (as well as in the attached screenshot):

Permanent residence date: 29 May 2014 (Same as Initial entry date)

Lawful residence date 29 May 2014 (Same as Initial entry date - should this change ? Before you answer please check the outside of Australia dates below because with these dates it says residence requirement met)

intended lodgement date - 10th Feb 2019

Outside Au dates: From 8th June 2014 to 2nd Feb 2016

With the above info it says residence requirement met. But here the input shows outside Au more than 1 year. If so why does it say residence requirement met ? If the lawful residence or permanent residence date is incorrect- then that should get highlighted when I enter the Outside Au dates correct ?

The lawful residence definition says "Lawful residence means living in Australia on a valid Australian temporary or permanent visa" - not sure how to interpret this because it not giving any error considering I have put an outside Au dates of more than 1 year.

Thank you


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## rahulreshu (Aug 11, 2013)

> Australian Citizenship Act 2007 Residence Requirements
> To satisfy the residence requirements you must:
> have been living in Australia on a valid Australian visa for four years immediately before applying which must include the last 12 months as a permanent resident,
> and
> not have been absent from Australia for more than one year in total, in the 4 year period, including no more than 90 days in the year immediately before applying.


You need to look at the 4 years immediately before you apply which in your case would be 10th Feb 2015. From that date, you will be outside Australia until 2nd Feb, 2016 (just under 1 year). So, if you don't go outside Australia again until you have to apply for citizenship (10th Feb, 2019), you should be fine.


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## kaju (Oct 31, 2011)

elemental said:


> Hi Guys, Ozbound,
> 
> I read a post (by ozbound) that said that if you are outside of Australia for more than 1 year after making initial entry, then the 4 year citizenship clock is reset and starts calculating again. I am not sure about this looking at the citizenship calculator. Could you please look at the screenshot attached (also, same details given below - just so if the screenshot does not attach correctly). Why is this showing that Residence requirements have been met even though the tentative dates have been input to show that the dates outside Au have been more than 1 year in between initial entry and actual entry ? Is the lawful residence date in the input correct taking into consideration the dates outside Au ?
> 
> ...


Read what DIBP says carefully. https://www.border.gov.au/Trav/Ente/Retu/residence-calculator

Using the dates you have put in, and assuming they are correct, the calculator's response is correct.

Look at your intended lodgement date - 10.02.2019.

Now remember that you must have been in Australia for 3 of the the 4 years before *THAT *date.

So have you been in Australia for 3 years since 10.02.2015 using that proposed lodgement date? (Hint: the answer is Yes)


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## azerty (Jan 22, 2016)

You probably need to add details before you calculate. I don't think it will calculate the dates offshore otherwise.


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## ozbound12 (Mar 23, 2012)

I'm not sure to which post of mine you are referring but, as others have stated, you need to look at the four years prior to the date you lodge your citizenship application (which can but is not necessarily the four years from the date of first entry).


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## elemental (Oct 25, 2016)

Thank you guys for the replies.

Hi Ozbound - was referring to the last post in the link below:

http://www.expatforum.com/expats/au...gle-page-ranking-citizenship-calculation.html

Thread title to search: PR to Citizenship Calculation

Please let me know.


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## kaju (Oct 31, 2011)

elemental said:


> Thank you guys for the replies.
> 
> Hi Ozbound - was referring to the last post in the link below:
> 
> ...


I've already given you the correct answer! 

You need to be in Australia for 3 of the last 4 years (working backwards from the date of lodgement of the application), on a valid visa, and in the year before applying, have been here as a Permanent Resident. 

Lodge the application - 10.02.2019

You must have been in Australia for three years out of the 4 year the period 10.02.2015 - 10.02.2019.

Will you have been in Australia for 3 years in that period?

Read my post again. If you count back from your proposed lodgement date, if the dates you have given are correct, you meet the conditions.


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## desiswag (Aug 10, 2016)

*Spouse Citizenship*

I have a query regarding citizenship.

I am a primary applicant and got PR for me, wife and son. I am intending to make an initial entry in Australia with family and settle my wife and son there. I may return back to India to continue my Job.

Once or twice I may visit for a short duration (say 1-2 month) and my family would stay there. 

Will they be eligible after 4 years to apply for citizenship (they being a dependent but fulfilling the requirements for residence/citizenship, even if the primary applicant is not eligible due to less stay in Australia)?


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## elemental (Oct 25, 2016)

kaju said:


> I've already given you the correct answer!
> 
> You need to be in Australia for 3 of the last 4 years (working backwards from the date of lodgement of the application), on a valid visa, and in the year before applying, have been here as a Permanent Resident.
> 
> ...


Hi Kaju,

Thank you for the reply  I read the notes by you and understood that the calculation I made was ok. . I was just replying to OzBound - where he said he was not sure which note of his I was referring to. Just wanted to check why he made that note in the other thread.


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## ozbound12 (Mar 23, 2012)

elemental said:


> Thank you guys for the replies.
> 
> Hi Ozbound - was referring to the last post in the link below:
> 
> ...


I was responding specifically to that poster's situation if you read my post carefully. Their situation was not the same as yours.


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## elemental (Oct 25, 2016)

ozbound12 said:


> I was responding specifically to that poster's situation if you read my post carefully. Their situation was not the same as yours.




Hi Ozbound,

I read that post again and am not able to understand the difference. 

It looks like he (tomato_juice) should be eligible for in Jan 2019 correct ? But in that thread you have mentioned different. 

I am confused.

If his lodgement date is 15 Jan 2019, and you subtract 4 years - that would 15 Jan 2015 (I am using very slightly different dates than he mentioned in that post for simplicity). Has he spent more than 3 years in Au from 15 Jan 2015 to 15 Jan 2019 - the answer is yes. So he should be eligible in Jan 2019 itself correct ? I do not understand. 

In the example I have given, out of Au spent is more than 1 year. Same scenario correct ? Enter Au on a particular date - then spent outside Au for more than 1 year - and then returned to Au permanently. This scenario the first year spent outside Au is still being considered for the 4 year requirement - albeit as being spent outside of Au - still within the requirement.

Please do clarify in a bit more detail what the difference between two scenarios !

Thank you


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## ozbound12 (Mar 23, 2012)

He was away from Australia from the 6 Jan 2015 to the 9 Jan 2016, that's more than one year.


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## kaju (Oct 31, 2011)

elemental said:


> Hi Ozbound,
> 
> It looks like he (tomato_juice) should be eligible for in Jan 2019 correct ? But in that thread you have mentioned different.
> 
> ...


elemental - your calculation is correct.



ozbound12 said:


> He was away from Australia from the 6 Jan 2015 to the 9 Jan 2016, that's more than one year.


ozbound12 - this is what is leading you astray a bit! 

The greater-than-one-year period doesn't reset the clock fully, which is where you're going wrong - up to one year of that period can be used to make up the 4 year waiting period IF the applicant has legal residence in Australia at that time.

So...the way to look at it is, 

Step 1: Was my PR activated (my date of actual initial residence) at least 4 years before my proposed application date. If yes:

Step 2: On what date do I have 3 years actual residence in Australia (plus one year away)? If we assume there are no gaps in the period since the applicant returned to Australia after his absence, and the lodgement date, counting back three years is easy. 

We know that he has legal residence status for more than 1 year before that, as his PR activation date is more than/at least 4 years before his application date.

So, even though he was away for more than 1 year, we can still use up to 1 year of of that away period to include in the 4 year qualifying period.

Knowing that, we can either use the calculator, or work it out manually. 

Doing it manually is simple. We know he returned on 9 Jan 2016. We know we can start the 4 year period a year before that date, as he had lawful residence for that whole period.

So we simply say, when is 4 years from 9 Jan 2015? The answer is 8 Jan 2019 - this is the earliest date he can apply, and this is confirmed by the calculator.


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## ozbound12 (Mar 23, 2012)

kaju said:


> So we simply say, when is 4 years from 9 Jan 2015? The answer is 8 Jan 2019 - this is the earliest date he can apply, and this is confirmed by the calculator.


Thanks for the clarification, although it seems that the calculator is probably the best source of information for this rather than the forum.


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## Bhajjaji (Jan 16, 2017)

BH

I can't find the web page of the ( Residence-Calculator) working any more !! 
do anyone have the new URL ?


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## ozbound12 (Mar 23, 2012)

Bhajjaji said:


> BH
> 
> I can't find the web page of the ( Residence-Calculator) working any more !!
> do anyone have the new URL ?


They took down the calculator presumably because of the proposed changes to the residency requirements for citizenship. If enacted (which they probably will be), the calculator will need to be updated to reflect the changes.


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## ChrisJAnderson (Dec 17, 2012)

Hi guys,

I have a query. I received my PR back in 2013 and made my first entry into Australia on 6th Feb 2014. Since then I have been living here and have been absent from Australia as follows:

25 May 2014 to 29 July 2014
09 Aug 2015 to 08 Apr 2016
26 Aug 2016 to 08 Sep 2016
04 Feb 2017 to 26 Feb 2017
25 Aug 2017 to 16 Oct 2017

Now the residency calculator was removed from the DIBP website so I calculated my residency requirements the old fashion way and as per my calculations, I was eligible to apply for citizenship by 19 March 2018. 
But now that the residency calculator is back, I checked again and it says that I can't apply for citizenship before 10 June 2018. 
Totally confused  Any suggestions?


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## rahulreshu (Aug 11, 2013)

ChrisJAnderson said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> I have a query. I received my PR back in 2013 and made my first entry into Australia on 6th Feb 2014. Since then I have been living here and have been absent from Australia as follows:
> 
> ...


I tried it on the website and I think it gave me 19 June 2018. I believe it is correct. You've stayed a total of 395 days outside Australia since making your initial entry. In the year just before you intend to apply, you've stayed 74 days outside, so you are okay there however you need to look back 4 years into the past from your intended date of application. If you consider 19 March, 2018, 4 years into the past would be 19 March, 2014. You would be outside the country for 395 days (> 1 year) at that time hence you need to move forward a little towards your first travel (25 May 2014 to 29 July 2014) to get credit for the 30 days you are off by. You get credit for those 30 days around 19th June 2018 (look 4 years into the past from this date).


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## ChrisJAnderson (Dec 17, 2012)

rahulreshu said:


> I tried it on the website and I think it gave me 19 June 2018. I believe it is correct. You've stayed a total of 395 days outside Australia since making your initial entry. In the year just before you intend to apply, you've stayed 74 days outside, so you are okay there however you need to look back 4 years into the past from your intended date of application. If you consider 19 March, 2018, 4 years into the past would be 19 March, 2014. You would be outside the country for 395 days (> 1 year) at that time hence you need to move forward a little towards your first travel (25 May 2014 to 29 July 2014) to get credit for the 30 days you are off by. You get credit for those 30 days around 19th June 2018 (look 4 years into the past from this date).


Thanks a lot for the reply mate. So if I understand this correctly, to offset the 30 days, I have to wait additionally 90 days  I would never have overstayed if the calculator was available as I thought I might have to wait an additional 30-40 days only


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## rahulreshu (Aug 11, 2013)

Yes, you are kind of lucky though that you took that trip that early after your arrival. Imagine if you hadn't taken it at that time and took those additional 65 days during your "09 Aug 2015 to 08 Apr 2016" trip. You'd then have to wait even longer (more than a year from your expected date of lodgement).

Just remember, the general rule is:

From the expected date of lodgement (i.e. the date you intend to apply for citizenship),

1) Count back 1 year. Have you stayed more than 90 days out of Australia during that time?
2) Count back 4 years. have you stayed for more than ~365 days out of Australia during that time?

If you answer yes to any of the above 2 questions, you can't lodge your application on that date.


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## ChrisJAnderson (Dec 17, 2012)

rahulreshu said:


> Yes, you are kind of lucky though that you took that trip that early after your arrival. Imagine if you hadn't taken it at that time and took those additional 65 days during your "09 Aug 2015 to 08 Apr 2016" trip. You'd then have to wait even longer (more than a year from your expected date of lodgement).
> 
> Just remember, the general rule is:
> 
> ...


Thanks mate. now finger's crossed for the june application. hopefully they won't take 14 months to process my application


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## FZ_RZA (Nov 24, 2017)

ozbound12 said:


> I was responding specifically to that poster's situation if you read my post carefully. Their situation was not the same as yours.


Hi Ozbound, I saw that your replies are very direct and helpful. Can you please have a look at my scenario. I have tried DIBP, but they always have conflicting answers 

My first entry to Australia (on Student Visa)
9th Jan 2008 to 23rd Dec 2008

Then I went back to my country and stayed outside Australia from 24th Dec'08 to 12 May 2015.

2nd entry in Australia [as Permanent Resident]
13th May 2015

Since then I am in Australia and have not left the country, do you think if I stay continuously till June'18 then I am I will be eligible to apply for my citizenship in June 2018 ???


Have a nice weekend and thanks in Advance


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## ozbound12 (Mar 23, 2012)

FZ_RZA said:


> Hi Ozbound, I saw that your replies are very direct and helpful. Can you please have a look at my scenario. I have tried DIBP, but they always have conflicting answers
> 
> My first entry to Australia (on Student Visa)
> 9th Jan 2008 to 23rd Dec 2008
> ...


You need to have lived in Australia for 4 years, 1 of which is as a permanent resident, with no absences of more than 1 year and no more than 90 days in the last year before you apply. In your situation, if you arrived in May 2015, the earliest you can apply is May 2019 assuming you are not absent for more than 1 year between now and then.

There is a residence calculator on the DIBP site. https://www.border.gov.au/Trav/Ente/Retu/residence-calculator


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## deep4heaven (Jan 15, 2018)

*M confused with Residence Calculator*

Hi ,

Please help me in clarifying the below calculation , m I eligible to go forward for application or I would wait for the date which the calculator is stating.

Permanent Residence Date :11/1/2011
Lawful Residence Date :-13/01/2013
Intended Lodgement Date :- 22/01/2018

Absence dates 
From Date To Date
20-Apr-14 25-Jan-15
15-Feb-16 12-Mar-16
4-Sep-16 23-Sep-16
26-Nov-16 21-Jan-17
7-Oct-17 11-Nov-17

After calculation I am getting Lodgement Date : -- 05/06/2018

Thanks
Deep


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## NB (Mar 29, 2017)

deep4heaven said:


> Hi ,
> 
> Please help me in clarifying the below calculation , m I eligible to go forward for application or I would wait for the date which the calculator is stating.
> 
> ...


Wrong query

Cheers


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## NB (Mar 29, 2017)

ozbound12 said:


> You need to have lived in Australia for 4 years, 1 of which is as a permanent resident, with no absences of more than 1 year and no more than 90 days in the last year before you apply. In your situation, if you arrived in May 2015, the earliest you can apply is May 2019 assuming you are not absent for more than 1 year between now and then.
> 
> There is a residence calculator on the DIBP site. https://www.border.gov.au/Trav/Ente/Retu/residence-calculator


I left Australia on a visit to NZ on 2nd March 2018
I landed back on 4th March 2018

How many days am I absent from Australia ?
1/2/3 days ?

Cheers


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## ozbound12 (Mar 23, 2012)

newbienz said:


> i left australia on a visit to nz on 2nd march 2018
> i landed back on 4th march 2018
> 
> how many days am i absent from australia ?
> ...


4-2 = ...


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## NB (Mar 29, 2017)

ozbound12 said:


> 4-2 = ...


The description is absent from Australia 

So logically I’m on Australian soil on 2nd March as well as 4th March

So shouldn’t it be just 1 day ?
And if even partial absence is counted, then it should b 3 days 

I am worried about this as my company is planning to send me to AKL every week for a day for several months

So if it is 2/3 days absence calculations, then over the months it, will add substantially to the total number of days spent outside Australia and delay my citizenship considerably 

I will cross the 12 month limit and lose this entire 1.5 to 2 year stay

Cheers


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## ozbound12 (Mar 23, 2012)

newbienz said:


> The description is absent from Australia
> 
> So logically I’m on Australian soil on 2nd March as well as 4th March
> 
> ...


They don't analyse your absence down to the hour or the minute. If you leave on the 2nd of March, even if it's at 5am, and return on the 4th at 10pm, that's probably closer to 3 days absence, it's true, but they are not tracking your movements to that level of precision.

You don't 'lose' the year if you have been out of the country for more than 90 days in a year. You just have to wait until a year has passed where you have spent less than 90 days out of the country. It would probably only extend the date by a month or two.


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## NB (Mar 29, 2017)

ozbound12 said:


> They don't analyse your absence down to the hour or the minute. If you leave on the 2nd of March, even if it's at 5am, and return on the 4th at 10pm, that's probably closer to 3 days absence, it's true, but they are not tracking your movements to that level of precision.
> 
> You don't 'lose' the year if you have been out of the country for more than 90 days in a year. You just have to wait until a year has passed where you have spent less than 90 days out of the country. It would probably only extend the date by a month or two.


I am getting confused
I thought the 90 days rule only applies to the final year

Throughout in any period period of 4 years except the last year i can be out for 364 days also at a stretch , and yet be eligible for citizenship 

Is my understanding wrong ?

I had come to Australia for some work in Nov 2016 for a few weeks on a business visa and went back
Then I came again permanently only in June 2017
I wanted to use the period from nov 2016 to June 2017 also towards the 4 years calculations 

Cheers


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## kaju (Oct 31, 2011)

ozbound12 said:


> They don't analyse your absence down to the hour or the minute. If you leave on the 2nd of March, even if it's at 5am, and return on the 4th at 10pm, that's probably closer to 3 days absence, it's true, but they are not tracking your movements to that level of precision.
> 
> You don't 'lose' the year if you have been out of the country for more than 90 days in a year. You just have to wait until a year has passed where you have spent less than 90 days out of the country. It would probably only extend the date by a month or two.


_If you leave on the 2nd of March, even if it's at 5am, and return on the 4th at 10pm _

Then that is a one day absence.

_You don't 'lose' the year if you have been out of the country for more than 90 days in a year. You just have to wait until a year has passed where you have spent less than 90 days out of the country. It would probably only extend the date by a month or two_ 

That depends when you were away - we lodged my wife's citizenship application in March last year just after returning to Australia - if she'd been away for more than 90 days she would have had to wait for closer to a year - but we knew that before we went, so we only left for exactly 89 days (it was just a holiday so dates were flexible), as that was the only absence in the preceding year! She had her citizenship ceremony a couple of weeks ago and applied for her Aus passport yesterday. That will now mean 10 passports altogether for us and the 2 kids - ka-ching!


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## ozbound12 (Mar 23, 2012)

kaju said:


> _If you leave on the 2nd of March, even if it's at 5am, and return on the 4th at 10pm _
> 
> Then that is a one day absence.


That was not how it was calculated on my application. It was calculated as two days.



> _You don't 'lose' the year if you have been out of the country for more than 90 days in a year. You just have to wait until a year has passed where you have spent less than 90 days out of the country. It would probably only extend the date by a month or two_
> 
> That depends when you were away - we lodged my wife's citizenship application in March last year just after returning to Australia - if she'd been away for more than 90 days she would have had to wait for closer to a year - but we knew that before we went, so we only left for exactly 89 days (it was just a holiday so dates were flexible), as that was the only absence in the preceding year! She had her citizenship ceremony a couple of weeks ago and applied for her Aus passport yesterday. That will now mean 10 passports altogether for us and the 2 kids - ka-ching!


This situation is a bit different since from what the OP was saying, they will only be away for one to two days at a time. If the 90 days are taken all at once then, yes, the wait can be a year or more.


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## ozbound12 (Mar 23, 2012)

newbienz said:


> I am getting confused
> I thought the 90 days rule only applies to the final year
> 
> Throughout in any period period of 4 years except the last year i can be out for 364 days also at a stretch , and yet be eligible for citizenship
> ...


Your understanding is correct but I was responding to your query about the 90 day rule for the final year before you apply. Obviously your total absence must be less than a year over the whole four year period as you stated.


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## NB (Mar 29, 2017)

ozbound12 said:


> Your understanding is correct but I was responding to your query about the 90 day rule for the final year before you apply. Obviously your total absence must be less than a year over the whole four year period as you stated.


Any thoughts on whether stay during a visitors or business visa also count towards the calculation of the 4 year stay ?

I can be eligible for my citizenship 7/8 months earlier if that period is also allowed

Cheers


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## kaju (Oct 31, 2011)

newbienz said:


> Any thoughts on whether stay during a visitors or business visa also count towards the calculation of the 4 year stay ?
> 
> I can be eligible for my citizenship 7/8 months earlier if that period is also allowed
> 
> Cheers


Yes, they both count.


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## jayptl (Dec 13, 2012)

Hi guys anyone help me I am in doubt about whether I am eligible for citizenship or not?

timeline
First arrived ; 08/08/2008
Absense period: 17/11/2012 to 07/12/2014
Later arrived: 08/12/2014
PR granted: 25/05/2017

As per checking online browser of residency checker I am eligible for citizenship now..but it mentiones last 4 yr stays immedietly..
and 2nd para it mentions past 4 year...

So confused??

seek guide from senior expat.


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## NB (Mar 29, 2017)

jayptl said:


> Hi guys anyone help me I am in doubt about whether I am eligible for citizenship or not?
> 
> timeline
> First arrived ; 08/08/2008
> ...


You must be entering the dates wrong in the Residency checker, else there is no way you can be eligible right now

You will become eligible earliest on 8th December 2018 under current rules

Cheers


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## goran_oh (Jul 21, 2018)

newbienz said:


> You must be entering the dates wrong in the Residency checker, else there is no way you can be eligible right now
> 
> You will become eligible earliest on 8th December 2018 under current rules
> 
> Cheers


+1

Sent from my ONEPLUS A5010 using Tapatalk


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## kaanixir (Mar 27, 2017)

hi, let's say I haven't been outside Australia for more than a year in total, but I have been outside Australia for 5 months this year. In total I've been in Australia for about 6 years.

Do I lose the year I've been outside for 5 months, or does it get reset for being offshore for 5 months ?


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## kiwifruit (Dec 21, 2012)

kaanixir said:


> hi, let's say I haven't been outside Australia for more than a year in total, but I have been outside Australia for 5 months this year. In total I've been in Australia for about 6 years.
> 
> Do I lose the year I've been outside for 5 months, or does it get reset for being offshore for 5 months ?


If you have been outside Australia for over 90 days in the last year you are not eligible to apply for citizenship. If the period you were offshore was, for example, November 2017 to April 2018, you will have to wait until January 2019 to qualify. As long as you do not leave Australia again you can apply 275 days after the date you last arrived back here.

You still need to satisfy another requirement though. You must have been a permanent resident for a full year, which judging by your signature you are not.


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## kiwifruit (Dec 21, 2012)

jayptl said:


> Hi guys anyone help me I am in doubt about whether I am eligible for citizenship or not?
> 
> timeline
> First arrived ; 08/08/2008
> ...


I know this is a post from 3 months ago but I'm replying to clarify this point for other people who might be in a similar situation.

If the residency checker says you are eligible then you must be. The online citizenship application form will not allow you to continue unless you are so I suggest trying to complete it to see what happens. 

In theory you met all the requirements back in May this year, assuming you were not offshore for more than 90 days in the previous 12 months. By then you had been an Australian PR for one year and had been a resident for more than four in total. Your residency period would be counted from August 2008.

You were offshore for almost two years but not for more than one within the last four. If you start counting back four years from May 2018 you get to May 2014. You were offshore from May to December 2014, which is 7 months only. Therefore, you met all the conditions to be eligible for citizenship.

If you haven't submitted your application yet I would suggest doing it asap. There is a new bill that will be discussed in Parliament probably in August and if it passes it will change the minimum number of years as a PR from one to four. That would make you ineligible for citizenship until May 2021.

I am not a PR yet but I am pretty familiar with the citizenship application because my partner applied for it just a couple of months ago.


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## kiwifruit (Dec 21, 2012)

jayptl said:


> Hi guys anyone help me I am in doubt about whether I am eligible for citizenship or not?
> 
> timeline
> First arrived ; 08/08/2008
> ...


jayptl, I have tried to reply to your private message but your inbox is full and you can't receive my answer. 

Your stay between 2008 and 2012 counts towards your residency requirements as long as you were here on a valid visa and didn't become an unlawful resident at any point.

You had already been an Australian resident for 4 years by the time you left in 2012. Your residency did not get reset because of your absence. Those 4 years still count.

So, if you calculate it right now, you meet all the conditions:
1. You have been a permanent resident for more than one year (you became a PR in May 2017).
2. You have not been away for more than 90 days in the last year (no absence between 24 July 2017 and 24 July 2018).
3. You have not been away for more than one year in the last four (count 4 years back from today and you get to 24 July 2014. You were away from 24 July 2014 to 7 Dec 2014 which is less than 5 months).
4. You have been an Australian resident for over 4 years in total (more than 4 between 2008 and 2012 plus another 3 and a half from December 2014 to July 2018 - that's over 7 and a half residency years in total).

Your initial residency date is 08/08/2008. That's why the calculator tells you that you are eligible for citizenship. 

Go ahead and apply for it.


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## NB (Mar 29, 2017)

kiwifruit said:


> jayptl, I have tried to reply to your private message but your inbox is full and you can't receive my answer.
> 
> Your stay between 2008 and 2012 counts towards your residency requirements as long as you were here on a valid visa and didn't become an unlawful resident at any point.
> 
> ...


I have my doubts
I would bet on Dec 2018

Let @Kaju comment

Cheers


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## kaju (Oct 31, 2011)

newbienz said:


> I have my doubts
> I would bet on Dec 2018
> 
> Let @Kaju comment
> ...


Kiwifruit is correct. You would be correct if jayptl had arrived for the first time on 8/12/2014.

In this situation, the initial entry several years ago is a deciding factor on when the 4 year period starts.

It's an awkward situation, and confusion is widespread. 

_If you've already been legally in Australia before the 4 years preceding the application date_, then it's just what has happened in those 4 years that matters - and if you were away for less than a year in the 4 years you're deemed to have been in Australia for that period. 

However this only applies if you arrived before the 4 year date. If you first arrived less than 4 years ago, you can't say you've been here more than 3 years out of the last 4, as you have to be here first before you can have an absence! In that situation, the 4 years starts from the date of arrival.

Section 22(1A) of the Citizenship Act allows for absences from Australia of up to 12 months within the 4 years immediately before applying for citizenship. A period of time cannot be counted as an absence from Australia unless the person has already been present in Australia. This means that a person does not meet the residence requirement if they have 3 years continuous presence in Australia (with the last 12 months as a permanent resident) _unless they were previously in Australia_. 

*Calculation of the 4-year lawful residence period when a person has been absent from Australia on the day 4 years immediately before applying*

If a person’s first arrival in Australia is less than 4 years before they apply for citizenship, they cannot meet the general residence requirement, even if they spend 3 years continuously in Australia.

The start date of the 4-year lawful residence period is usually the date 4 years immediately before they lodge their application. However, if the person has not made their first entry into Australia, they need to wait at least 4 years after their first entry to meet this requirement.

Where a person was outside Australia on the day 4 years immediately before applying, but had previously been in Australia, they may still use the day 4 years immediately before applying as a start date, providing that on that day they held visa which was granted in Australia, or which was granted offshore and the person had entered Australia on that visa. If these conditions are met, then the person may use the full 4 year period immediately before applying towards meeting the general residence requirement.


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## NB (Mar 29, 2017)

kaju said:


> Kiwifruit is correct. You would be correct if jayptl had arrived for the first time on 8/12/2014.
> 
> In this situation, the initial entry several years ago is a deciding factor on when the 4 year period starts.
> 
> ...


I stand corrected 

Cheers


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## kiwifruit (Dec 21, 2012)

kaju said:


> Where a person was outside Australia on the day 4 years immediately before applying, but had previously been in Australia, they may still use the day 4 years immediately before applying as a start date, providing that on that day they held visa which was granted in Australia, or which was granted offshore and the person had entered Australia on that visa. If these conditions are met, then the person may use the full 4 year period immediately before applying towards meeting the general residence requirement.


Thanks Kaju for your extensive clarification.

The problem in this case, which I found via private message, is that jayptl had his visa cancelled at the end of 2012. If he applied for citizenship today he would need to have held a visa back in July 2014, which he did not. I assumed that his previous visa (the one that allowed him to stay here between 2008 and 2012) was still valid during his absence, but that is not the case. So he would not satisfy this requirement: "providing that on that day they held visa which was granted in Australia, or which was granted offshore and the person had entered Australia on that visa".

I tried the online calculator myself and it has one big flaw. It asks for the date you entered Australia lawfully but does not ask if your visa ended at any point. It assumes that your visa remained valid until you were granted PR. That's why it tells him that he's eligible now.

So, in this particular case, I have to agree with NB.


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## NB (Mar 29, 2017)

kiwifruit said:


> Thanks Kaju for your extensive clarification.
> 
> The problem in this case, which I found via private message, is that jayptl had his visa cancelled at the end of 2012. If he applied for citizenship today he would need to have held a visa back in July 2014, which he did not. I assumed that his previous visa (the one that allowed him to stay here between 2008 and 2012) was still valid during his absence, but that is not the case. So he would not satisfy this requirement: "providing that on that day they held visa which was granted in Australia, or which was granted offshore and the person had entered Australia on that visa".
> 
> ...


So I stand not corrected ? 

What’s the final status @kaju?

Cheers


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## jayptl (Dec 13, 2012)

Hi guys, in my particular case its really difficult to judge whether I am eligible or not??

I tried consult lot of MARA agent, but nobody tells me perfect answer with confidently about my eligibility.

Whether I was previlys between 2008 to 2012 I was legal on visa, but after cancellation I was not overstayed as chat with kiwifruit. It is still confusing or may be I am eligible on dec 2018. May be clock starts from 2014..

In residence calc. They put only lawful residence date but didnt mention from to To?? so in that case I cant decide what does it mean lawful residence date its from 2008 or from Dec 2014


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## NB (Mar 29, 2017)

jayptl said:


> Hi guys, in my particular case its really difficult to judge whether I am eligible or not??
> 
> I tried consult lot of MARA agent, but nobody tells me perfect answer with confidently about my eligibility.
> 
> ...


If i were in your shoes I would apply for the citizenship right away
Maximum, if I am not eligible I lose $285

But if I was eligible and did not apply, and the rules change to 4 years minimum on PR, then I wil be kicking myself forever
Do recheck if there any repurcussions for a wrong application other then forfieture of Visa fees

Cheers


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## jayptl (Dec 13, 2012)

*jayptl*

As per your suggestion

I am eligible?? on Section 22(1A)?


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## NB (Mar 29, 2017)

jayptl said:


> As per your suggestion
> 
> I am eligible?? on Section 22(1A)?


It’s totally a huge gamble
Apply only if you are ready to accept that it’s money down the drain

Had the 4 years rule as PR not been looming, I would not have applied right now and applied only in dec 18 and avoided any chance of rejection 

Let’s see if kaju can add more clarity

Cheers


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## jayptl (Dec 13, 2012)

Yes its one type of Gamble..

Evven MARA agent cant clarify my case, I spent money to resolve my matter,, but they are not confidient to solve my case


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## jayptl (Dec 13, 2012)

Fees doesnt matter but main problem is it cancel after one year ??? thatn its wasting time and I may slot again ( even if current or new rules) was missed applied on Dec 2018.. and again ruined time and time.. so afraid to apply..

When they give decision for further process if I apply now?? I am extremely confused 

They didnt mention what is exactly Lawful date means??


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## kaju (Oct 31, 2011)

jayptl said:


> Fees doesnt matter but main problem is it cancel after one year ??? thatn its wasting time and I may slot again ( even if current or new rules) was missed applied on Dec 2018.. and again ruined time and time.. so afraid to apply..
> 
> When they give decision for further process if I apply now?? I am extremely confused
> 
> They didnt mention what is exactly Lawful date means??


You lawful residence date is the date you first arrived in Australia on a valid visa.

If you apply now and they reject the application, all you lose is the fee. 

What I would do would be contact Citizenship and ask if the visa cancellation affects the application, and if you are eligible.

They may say that at the beginning of the four year period they require you to have been "normally resident" in Australia, or at least have had the ability to return to Australia, and then they would permit the absence of less than 1 year in the 4 year period. The cancellation of your visa might be interpreted as meaning you are not seen to be normally resident, and so the application would be rejected. 

However absences in the 4 year period are normally permitted if you have a lawful residence date before the start of the 4 year period and there is no mention of any requirement that you must not have had a cancelled visa in that period, simply that you must have been in Australia legally at some time before that point.

This "cancelled visa situation" isn't covered directly in the legislation, nor is it covered to any significant extent in their policy directions except within the "ability to return" part, and so your result may depend on their interpretation of that policy.

I suspect that this is a situation where the assessor would need to clarify the issue with his manager, but my feeling is that there is no specific thing that precludes you being eligible now. But...they may or may not not see it that way! 

Your options are to ask them, and/or to apply now - the worst that could happen is that the application is refused and you lose the fees. That would not affect you in any other way. 

Alternately you could just hold off until 8 December 2018 - not so far away, when you know you are eligible.


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## NB (Mar 29, 2017)

kaju said:


> You lawful residence date is the date you first arrived in Australia on a valid visa.
> 
> If you apply now and they reject the application, all you lose is the fee.
> 
> ...


What is your gut feeling about the minimum 4 years on PR becoming a law this time around ?

Cheers


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## kaju (Oct 31, 2011)

newbienz said:


> What is your gut feeling about the minimum 4 years on PR becoming a law this time around ?
> 
> Cheers


The current Bill (Pauline Hanson's, with a proposed 8 year requirement) will not proceed.

Whenever the Government chooses to introduce a new Bill, (and they do want to) it's obvious that it will have a lower-level English test, and I suspect 4 years PR. I'd guess that the Senate might just pass such a Bill.

More speculation on my part, but there might be a move towards introducing a period of temporary status for new PR visas, so that people arriving on 189's, 190's etc are classed as temporary residents before formally becoming permanent after perhaps 2 years. That may tie in as part of a stepped approach to PR and Citizenship. That seems to be the preferred option for some Government Members.


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## kiwifruit (Dec 21, 2012)

jayptl said:


> Fees doesnt matter but main problem is it cancel after one year ??? thatn its wasting time and I may slot again ( even if current or new rules) was missed applied on Dec 2018.. and again ruined time and time.. so afraid to apply..
> 
> When they give decision for further process if I apply now?? I am extremely confused
> 
> They didnt mention what is exactly Lawful date means??


I would apply now. All you have to lose is the fee.

If they change the rules from here to December you won't be able to apply until 2021 (most likely) so even if they reject your application you will have lost nothing.

If the rules do not change before December these are the possibilities:
1. If your application has not been processed by December, you can withdraw it and submit a new one just to be on the safe side. 
2. If they process it and reject it you just need to file a new application after 8 December.
3. If they offer you a test date that means that they consider your application valid.

They are currently taking 5 months to a year just to give people a test date so the chances of it being processed by December are low.


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## NB (Mar 29, 2017)

kiwifruit said:


> I would apply now. All you have to lose is the fee.
> 
> If they change the rules from here to December you won't be able to apply until 2021 (most likely) so even if they reject your application you will have lost nothing.
> 
> ...


No one could put it better

Cheers


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## amigos (May 22, 2014)

kaju said:


> You lawful residence date is the date you first arrived in Australia on a valid visa.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Hi Kaju,

I first entered Australia in 2011 and departed in 2013 on student visa.
I came back on 10th January 2017 and granted PR on July 2017.
Am I considered my lawful resident date to calculate 4 year residence requirement on 10/1/2016? Because I previous stayed in Australia but at that time I did not hold any Australian Visa and not able to go back Australia as you said above. So it make me confused.
Like Newbienz's case, if so I can save 1 year for citizenship eligibility.

Thanks alot


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## NB (Mar 29, 2017)

kaju said:


> The current Bill (Pauline Hanson's, with a proposed 8 year requirement) will not proceed.
> 
> Whenever the Government chooses to introduce a new Bill, (and they do want to) it's obvious that it will have a lower-level English test, and I suspect 4 years PR. I'd guess that the Senate might just pass such a Bill.
> 
> More speculation on my part, but there might be a move towards introducing a period of temporary status for new PR visas, so that people arriving on 189's, 190's etc are classed as temporary residents before formally becoming permanent after perhaps 2 years. That may tie in as part of a stepped approach to PR and Citizenship. That seems to be the preferred option for some Government Members.


If they have an temporary PR to be converted to a permanent PR after 2 years, then basically the applicants will be expected to live like a saint
One misdemeanour like drunken driving or brawl and you put your PR in jeopardy 
Even the 190 commitment honoured or not may play a decisive role

Cheers


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## kaju (Oct 31, 2011)

amigos said:


> Hi Kaju,
> 
> I first entered Australia in 2011 and departed in 2013 on student visa.
> I came back on 10th January 2017 and granted PR on July 2017.
> ...


Your lawful residence date will be when you arrived in 2011. You can't use that to say you're eligible 4 years later of course, as you still have to be here for at least 3 of the past 4 years, as you know. So as you say, you will be eligible in 2020 or 2021.

But yes, the situation is very similar. The problem is that the law itself (the Citizenship Act) doesn't mention this situation specifically, so it's a question of DoHA's interpretation of that law. Although it can be hard to get information from them it should be possible - might save you the application fee and/or get you Citizenship a year earlier - or not! 

I'm not sure, but the way I read the legislation, you should be able to include the year before 10 January 2017. The problem is, I'm not the person who will decide if that's true and accept your application! 

As above you can try at the time and the worst is that you'd lose the application fee. Very often in Australia people in Government don't want to give you a direct answer like yes or no. The reason why that happens is that the decision is taken by the Case Officer at the time of the decision and not by them - so it's not their call, and they might give you the wrong information.

They'll quite often suggest that you apply, to test your eligibility. (Which is fine as long as the application fee is not too big!) But although DoHA staff can't advise you what to do, they can provide you with information, and they should be able to tell you if you can include that year or not. So if there's any way, I'd be asking them. If you're in the country, I'd try and visit one of their offices and ask to make an appointment with Citizenship or at least get a contact so you can ask. They might even be able to tell you on the spot.

Sorry not to give you a definitive answer, but in some cases the discretion to decide either way can lie with the Case Officer or their Manager - in these types of cases though, I expect that this situation happens often enough that they do have a policy about it - we just don't know what it is.


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## jayptl (Dec 13, 2012)

Yes the Rulels are tricky, Even My 2 yearkid was born overseas, so unless to Parents cant become citizen, kid has to wait until turn 16 to apply herself...as per legislation.
However, I am not gonna take risk to fear of refusal again, as there was already one refusal in my visa history. In new legislation law, they consider previous visa history during citizenship grant.

I also went to Visa office to ask clarification about my case, in reception staff, they dont kknow about proper rules exact, they professionally said just consult agent.

Its practically applies to me, e.g. Someone living here on PR for 30 to 40 years, and last 4 year if he/she left for one year absent, one that day, they haveto wait till one year after applying. in my case I was not absent more than one year in last 4 year.

What about if I apply now or in Dec, and then move to interstate, as I am planing, my test and ceremoney will be conducted other state?


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## kiwifruit (Dec 21, 2012)

jayptl said:


> What about if I apply now or in Dec, and then move to interstate, as I am planing, my test and ceremoney will be conducted other state?


If you move after you apply you just need to provide an update to the department. 
Your test and ceremony will be at your new location.


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## kiwifruit (Dec 21, 2012)

newbienz said:


> No one could put it better
> 
> Cheers


Thanks, NB. That's high praise coming from you. 🙂


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## goran_oh (Jul 21, 2018)

Hello guys,

I would like to clarify when I will be eligible for citizenship,I came in Australia 03.02.2017 and I received the PR recently 16.07.2018.

Thank you.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A5010 using Tapatalk


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## NB (Mar 29, 2017)

goran_oh said:


> Hello guys,
> 
> I would like to clarify when I will be eligible for citizenship,I came in Australia 03.02.2017 and I received the PR recently 16.07.2018.
> 
> ...


Earliest is feb 2021 under present rules
If rules change, maybe longer

Cheers


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## NB (Mar 29, 2017)

kiwifruit said:


> Thanks, NB. That's high praise coming from you. 🙂


It gave a very clear path to the member
There was no ambiguity whatsoever
If I had posted that question, this was the answer I would be looking for

Cheers


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## goran_oh (Jul 21, 2018)

newbienz said:


> Earliest is feb 2021 under present rules
> If rules change, maybe longer
> 
> Cheers


Thank you

Cheers

Sent from my ONEPLUS A5010 using Tapatalk


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## Bhajjaji (Jan 16, 2017)

BH
I think they return the calculator back to the Government website.


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## taniska (Jan 24, 2014)

Hi Guys, 

I have a query regarding the eligibility to apply for citizenship for my kid i.e. I am living in AUS for 4 years in PR(189) visa, but my wife and kid are living here for past 3 years only(they also in PR visa). So if I apply for citizenship for me now then can I include my Kid(9 year old) in the application or should I wait 1 more year to apply for my kid.

Many Thanks


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## azerty (Jan 22, 2016)

taniska said:


> Hi Guys,
> 
> I have a query regarding the eligibility to apply for citizenship for my kid i.e. I am living in AUS for 4 years in PR(189) visa, but my wife and kid are living here for past 3 years only(they also in PR visa). So if I apply for citizenship for me now then can I include my Kid(9 year old) in the application or should I wait 1 more year to apply for my kid.
> 
> Many Thanks


Your kid can join you.
https://www.homeaffairs.gov.au/trav.../migrant-with-permanent-residence/eligibility


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## taniska (Jan 24, 2014)

azerty said:


> Your kid can join you.
> https://www.homeaffairs.gov.au/trav.../migrant-with-permanent-residence/eligibility


Thanks a lot for your response..

I have submitted the citizenship application and based on the current trends I think I can expect test invite around July 2019. Am I right? 

Thanks.


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## ahmedusa4 (Feb 28, 2014)

Hi guys,
I‘m super confused at the moment because of my citizenship application. I used residence calculator to calculate residence eligibility and The result was yes I already eligible to apply for citizenship but when I applied online the application doesn’t go through and stops at step number 6 because it says that I haven’t met the residence time frame
Anyone has an explanation to this?
Visa granted on 1-8-2014
First entry on 10-10-2014
Left on 14-10-2014
Livining permanently since 26-10-2015
Left Australia once from 21-8-2017 to 10-9-2017
Thanks


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## amigos (May 22, 2014)

jayptl said:


> As per your suggestion
> 
> I am eligible?? on Section 22(1A)?


Hi Jayptl and NB,

@Jayptl, did you apply your citizenship in Dec 2018, if yes whats happen?

@NB, have you lodged your citizenship application?

I have similar situation with you.

Thanks


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## NB (Mar 29, 2017)

amigos said:


> Hi Jayptl and NB,
> 
> @Jayptl, did you apply your citizenship in Dec 2018, if yes whats happen?
> 
> ...


I am a year away from applying 

Cheers


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## amigos (May 22, 2014)

NB said:


> I am a year away from applying
> 
> Cheers


NB, thanks for you quick reply,

I remember, you came to Oz then went back before you got 457 and came OZ again.

Will you intend to lodge citizen application after 4 years since you first arrived OZ or sine you came by 457?

Thanks


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## NB (Mar 29, 2017)

amigos said:


> NB, thanks for you quick reply,
> 
> I remember, you came to Oz then went back before you got 457 and came OZ again.
> 
> ...


I came first as a visitor, went back, then as 457 then got my PR onshore 

I will start calculating the date for residence when I first came as a visitor 

Cheers


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## amigos (May 22, 2014)

NB said:


> I came first as a visitor, went back, then as 457 then got my PR onshore
> 
> I will start calculating the date for residence when I first came as a visitor
> 
> Cheers


Hi NB,

I first arrived in Australia in 2011 and departed in 2013.
Then coming back 14/2/2017 but today the system does not allow me to go further at step 6 because not meeting residency requirement.

So I doubt your first arrival as visitor not calculated


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## NB (Mar 29, 2017)

amigos said:


> Hi NB,
> 
> I first arrived in Australia in 2011 and departed in 2013.
> Then coming back 14/2/2017 but today the system does not allow me to go further at step 6 because not meeting residency requirement.
> ...


There is a 4 year gap between your last departure and arrival
That’s why probably you are not being given the advantage of the stay between 2011-2013
I did not have such a long gap so probably I will not face this problem

Cheers


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## amigos (May 22, 2014)

NB said:


> There is a 4 year gap between your last departure and arrival
> That’s why probably you are not being given the advantage of the stay between 2011-2013
> I did not have such a long gap so probably I will not face this problem
> 
> Cheers


I made inquiry with DHA and they said that it is because I did not have valid Australian visa when I was overseas. That is reason, we discussed in the starting of this thread, applicant should have a valid visa and have right to enter Australia


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## Mazaa (May 31, 2021)

NB said:


> I stand corrected
> 
> Cheers


you are saying you stand corrected then why did you guide me differently, what he is saying is actually my situation. But you advised differently even after standing corrected, why?


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## NB (Mar 29, 2017)

Mazaa said:


> you are saying you stand corrected then why did you guide me differently, what he is saying is actually my situation. But you advised differently even after standing corrected, why?


I made a mistake by replying to your post
Please go ahead and do as you please
Cheers


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## Mazaa (May 31, 2021)

NB said:


> I made a mistake by replying to your post
> Please go ahead and do as you please
> Cheers


If you saying give logic.. that is why i asked.. not fluke around saying apply next week or week after that..


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## amigos (May 22, 2014)

NB said:


> I came first as a visitor, went back, then as 457 then got my PR onshore
> 
> I will start calculating the date for residence when I first came as a visitor
> 
> Cheers


Hi NB,
Did you apply successfully after 4 years since you came Oz as a visitor? and what your application status now?

Cheers


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## NB (Mar 29, 2017)

amigos said:


> Hi NB,
> Did you apply successfully after 4 years since you came Oz as a visitor? and what your application status now?
> 
> Cheers


I applied successfully 
As I am in Vic I am still waiting patiently for the test invite
Cheers


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## amigos (May 22, 2014)

NB said:


> I applied successfully
> As I am in Vic I am still waiting patiently for the test invite
> Cheers


Good luck with your wait!
Cheers


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