# Living in London



## Toby_99833 (Dec 18, 2012)

Hello! I'm new here. I am applying to LSE for a PhD program and I am trying to figure out what's what before I get the admissions decision. That way if I am accepted I won't have to scramble to figure things out. Currently I was wondering what neighborhood would be good to live in. I am married with two small children. My husband will be looking for work in a hospital. Any advice would be great!

Thanks!


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## Crawford (Jan 23, 2011)

What is your budget for accommodation?


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## Toby_99833 (Dec 18, 2012)

Probably $1000 a month, so at the current exchange rate that is like £760 a month right? I'm not sure how much my husband will be able to make so I'm trying to be conservative.


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## WestCoastCanadianGirl (Mar 17, 2012)

£750/month might get you a _studio_ flat not in Central London, which means that you'll have to budget for transit costs in addition to housing, groceries, council tax, tv license, utilities etc.

For an idea of rental prices, here is one rental agency that serves London.


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## WestCoastCanadianGirl (Mar 17, 2012)

Oh, and btw... what sort of hospital work is your husband looking for?

He'll need to make sure that his qualifications meet British standards or he too will need to go for re-training.... I was a pharmacy technician in Canada for 12 years (and certified in the USA for 10 years) but am unable to work in that profession at the moment, as my qualifications do not meet British standards, and this is in spite of the fact that I once worked in a British Overseas Territory for 2 years.... I am looking at having to do a 2 year apprenticeship program to be able to register with the pharmaceutical council.


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## Toby_99833 (Dec 18, 2012)

Thanks for the info! It's hard to get a read on how much I should expect because all the listings seem to be for shared apartments. We will need at least a two bedroom. Should I expect something more like £1,000-£1,200 a month? Other than utilities what else should I expect to pay? You mentioned taxes. Is that not normally part of he listed prices?

My husband can be a few things. He is looking into international certifications. He can be an x-ray, cath lab, and/or EP tech. My understanding is that people that work I the NHS do not make much money.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Toby_99833 said:


> Thanks for the info! It's hard to get a read on how much I should expect because all the listings seem to be for shared apartments. We will need at least a two bedroom. Should I expect something more like £1,000-£1,200 a month? Other than utilities what else should I expect to pay? You mentioned taxes. Is that not normally part of he listed prices?


Rent listed is usually exclusive of extras, such as council tax (varies but reckon at least £100 to £120 a month), utilities (around £100 a month) and insurance (around £150 a year). To get a two-room flat/house for £1000 a month, you are looking at cheaper areas outside Central London, maybe in Zone 2-3 of Transport for London. Look at the tube map on http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloads/standard-tube-map.pdf



> My husband can be a few things. He is looking into international certifications. He can be an x-ray, cath lab, and/or EP tech. My understanding is that people that work I the NHS do not make much money.


Any qualification must be verified and accepted in UK and he may have to register with professional body. Look at NHS jobs: NHS Jobs Advice - Applying from Overseas.


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## nyclon (Apr 3, 2011)

Toby_99833 said:


> Probably $1000 a month, so at the current exchange rate that is like £760 a month right? I'm not sure how much my husband will be able to make so I'm trying to be conservative.





> It's hard to get a read on how much I should expect because all the listings seem to be for shared apartments.


London is an expensive city to live in. That's just a fact. London rental prices are quoted weekly so £760/month is about £175/week and in Central London all that will get you is a room in a shared flat. If you're lucky. 2 bedrooms near LSE which is in Zone 1 will run £650/week or about £2820/month and up. Bumping it up to £1200/month and widening your search area to Zone 3 and beyond will help. I think it's unlikely that you find 2 bedrooms in Zone 2 at that level and if you do it will test your concept of 2 bedrooms as the 2nd bedroom will likely be a single bedroom meaning room for a twin bed only.

As suggested, get yourself a map of London and a tube map and look at areas on tube lines that take you into stations near LSE.

Here are some property search websites which can give you an idea of what's available and the cost in different areas. Once you decide on an area, visit several estate agents in that neighborhood. Estate agents are very neighborhood specific. I would avoid Foxton's. They have a lot of good information, pictures, etc. but I've had several friends who've had bad experiences with their aggressive sale's tactics. 

UK's number one property website for properties for sale and to rent
Zoopla > Search Property to Buy, Rent, House Prices, Estate Agents
PrimeLocation > Search Property For Sale & To Rent Via Leading Estate Agents

Other expenses:

Gas
Electric
Council tax-depends on borough and property size/value could be £100-300/month
Water
Tv Licence-about£12/mo
Mobile phone
Landline
Cable
Internet
Commuting cost

Optional expenses would include content's insurance.


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## Toby_99833 (Dec 18, 2012)

Thanks again for all the info! It is really helpful!

I don't have a problem commuting longer distances. I don't think living I the central city would be the right choice for our family even if we COULD afford it. I'm having trouble figuring out how far away (time wise) zone 4 and 5 are from zone 1 (or specifically LSE). I'm sure it depends on where in those zones I'm living, but I'd like to be within 30-45 mins. 

Any suggestions?


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## MovingOUTofFrance (Nov 1, 2012)

You can get plenty of 2 bedroom flats outside central london and within 30 mins commuting distance. Avoid east and south east London ...its not very safe but certain areas are ok i guess and u can get stunning apartments for very cheap. Here are some examples i looked up quickly...btw ive lived in london for quite some time and been travelling there a lot. All these areas are decent and affordable - blackheath, hampstead garden suburb, finchley, putney, maida vale which is very central and still cheap....other cental cheap areas are kilburn, Wandsworth, dulwich, Ealing and maybe even hammersmith...i knew someone renting a huge 2 bedroom in hammersmith for 900 a month and this area is literally in central london.

2 bedroom flat to rent in Mycenae Road, Blackheath SE3 - 12639535 - Zoopla

2 bedroom flat to rent in First Floor, Kidbrooke Park Road, Blackheath SE3 - 27179691 - Zoopla

2 bedroom maisonette to rent in Frensham Drive, London SW15 - 14996544 - Zoopla


Also all rents in london are negotiable so offer them £100 below the asking price they usually agree to it. London is only expensive in a small part of the center ...the rest of the city is avtually quite affordable especially in relation to the economy and income levels there...its not an expensive city at all.


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## nyclon (Apr 3, 2011)

MovingOUTofFrance said:


> ..btw ive lived in london for quite some time and been travelling there a lot. All these areas are decent and affordable - blackheath, hampstead garden suburb, finchley, putney, maida vale which is very central and still cheap....other cental cheap areas are kilburn, Wandsworth, dulwich, Ealing and maybe even hammersmith...i knew someone renting a huge 2 bedroom in hammersmith for 900 a month and this area is literally in central london.


The average rent for a 2 bed flat in Maida Vale is about £585/week. It is a desirable neighborhood in Central London way out of the OP's budget. As for the other areas, there may be some availability but I wouldn't expect a huge amount of choice. Another thing to consider is ease of commute. Try to look for areas that are on tube lines that take you directly to the tube stations nearest the school. Many of the above mentioned areas would require several tube/bus/train changes. A problem on 1 line will throw your whole commute off.

In general, the farther away you get from Central London the more you get for your money. You may find a few 2 bedrooms in your price range in the areas mentioned but the bedrooms will be tiny and 1 is likely to be a single which will have room for a twin bed and not much more.




> Also all rents in london are negotiable so offer them £100 below the asking price they usually agree to it. London is only expensive in a small part of the center ...the rest of the city is avtually quite affordable especially in relation to the economy and income levels there...its not an expensive city at all.


Rents are negotiable but with property prices so high and mortgages hard to come by without a hefty deposit more and more people are electing to rent. It's definitely a landlords's market, not a renter's market. As that's the case, there is lots of competition for a small stock of flats.


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## MovingOUTofFrance (Nov 1, 2012)

Puhleaze, lets not talk about "average" rents in London - the average rent in Belgravia for a 2 bedroom flat is £20000 per month and down the street 2 mins away in Pimlico's ex-council flats it's £1200....

here's some 2 bedrooms in maida vale for 1200-1300....yes they are small you certainly won't get the buckingham palace for £1200 a month....the other rental properties I posted were perfectly large and normal sized.

2 bedroom flat to rent in Shirland Road, Maida Vale W9 - 26573596 - Zoopla

2 bedroom flat to rent in Malvern Road, Maida Vale NW6 - 18940604 - Zoopla

and some in chiswick...there's plenty of 2 bedrooms under £1200 in London close to the center.... I work in real estate so know very well what I am talking about.....and even if the OP wants to spend just £1000 a month for a 2 bedroom flat there are plenty in decent areas of London within a 30 min commute...also look into DOCKLANDS....lots of oversupply of properties there so plenty of cheap rentals. 

Lastly sorry to say but I disagree with the previous poster - there is still an oversupply of properties all over UK - not just in London especially now with the tightening of non-EU migration and tightening of student visas lots of properties outside the prime areas of central london are sitting empty....its a very negotiable market at the moment and even in central london there are plenty of deals to be had....UK's property market is going to go down further because previously it was fuelled by lots of non-EU expats coming to live and work in London - the tier 1 visas are all gone now and student visas are 1/10th of what they used to be....and EU migration is also less because of lack of opportunities in UK vs. emerging eastern european markets....this is all causing a glut in the property market...wait and see another year and prices will fall by a lot in certain areas of London.

For rent in Chiswick and around - 

2 bedroom flat to rent in Wellesley Road, Chiswick W4 - 27067162 - Zoopla

2 bedroom flat to rent in Sheen Lane, London SW14 - 27342241 - Zoopla

2 bedroom property to rent in Chertsey Court, Clifford Avenue, Mortlake SW14 - 27261154 - Zoopla

P.S. - mortlake is a wealthy upper middle class area and very safe... both chiswick and mortlake are nice areas to live and very close to central london.


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## nyclon (Apr 3, 2011)

MovingOUTofFrance said:


> here's some 2 bedrooms in maida vale for 1200-1300....yes they are small you certainly won't get the buckingham palace for £1200 a month....the other rental properties I posted were perfectly large and normal sized.
> 
> 2 bedroom flat to rent in Shirland Road, Maida Vale W9 - 26573596 - Zoopla
> 
> 2 bedroom flat to rent in Malvern Road, Maida Vale NW6 - 18940604 - Zoopla


The 1 flat listed on zoopla (which seems to be your site of choice) in Madia Vale that is even close to the OPs budget is £1235/month which is above the OPs budget. NW6 is Kilburn. 



> and some in chiswick...there's plenty of 2 bedrooms under £1200 in London close to the center....


zoopla has exactly 5 listings for Chiswick under £1200/month.



> I work in real estate so know very well what I am talking about.....


Really? You think Kilburn is Maida Vale.



> and even if the OP wants to spend just £1000 a month for a 2 bedroom flat there are plenty in decent areas of London within a 30 min commute...


Maybe you could be more specific.



> also look into DOCKLANDS....lots of oversupply of properties there so plenty of cheap rentals.


10 listings on zoopla under £1200/month.



> Lastly sorry to say but I disagree with the previous poster - there is still an oversupply of properties all over UK - not just in London especially now with the tightening of non-EU migration and tightening of student visas lots of properties outside the prime areas of central london are sitting empty....its a very negotiable market at the moment and even in central london there are plenty of deals to be had....UK's property market is going to go down further because previously it was fuelled by lots of non-EU expats coming to live and work in London - the tier 1 visas are all gone now and student visas are 1/10th of what they used to be....and EU migration is also less because of lack of opportunities in UK vs. emerging eastern european markets....this is all causing a glut in the property market...wait and see another year and prices will fall by a lot in certain areas of London.


From a recent article about the housing market:

"“Generation rent” is now in the majority after soaring prices, a mortgage famine and a disastrous housebuilding slump shattered the home-buying dreams of tens of thousands of Londoners.

"Critics say the landmark is a sign that London’s housing crisis is spiralling out of control as workers face the choice of“insanely” overpriced housing or an overheated rental market.

Paula Higgins, chief executive of the Homeowners Alliance, said: “This is terrible news for London and Londoners, reversing a century of progress.

“Londoners want to own their own home, but their dreams are being shattered as they are being forced to rent from a private or social landlord, or to go back and live with their parents.”"

Most families in London now rent rather than own homes - London - News - London Evening Standard



> For rent in Chiswick and around -
> 
> 2 bedroom flat to rent in Wellesley Road, Chiswick W4 - 27067162 - Zoopla
> 
> ...


P.S. Mortlake is actually south of the river. Not exactly Chiswick and not exactly "very close" to Central London. It's at least a 45 minute commute involving 2 changes.


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## MovingOUTofFrance (Nov 1, 2012)

Actually Zoopla is now merged with findaproperty.com - they are the same site now - and it's the most well established website for properties in UK. I already mentioned in west London it would be harder to get a 2 bedroom for £1200 a month BUT IT's POSSIBLE!!! And even then I posted at least 10 listing - there are plenty more in all areas of west London. 

If you go to East and South East London - rents are a lot lot cheaper...I knew people who lived in Lesisham and Deptford (white people by the way working professionals some with PHDs and other degrees before you jump to more conclusions about the safety and mix in these areas)....and it took them 15 mins on the overground trains to get to Charing Cross. Do a search on zoopla for rents under 1200 for 2 bedrooms in Lewisham - more than a 100 listings.....

P.S.... I don;t know how long it takes to go by public transport from Mortlake to Mayfair...I used to drive usually or take private car services and was never more than 15-20 mins...it's literally across the bridge next to Barnes....not that far away at all...I doubt it would take more than 30 mins even by the metro or tube whatever you call it in that country.


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## MovingOUTofFrance (Nov 1, 2012)

Have you heard of KNight Frank? they are one of the biggest estate agents worldwide....and if there is any credibility to their name then read this article...another picture of rentals in London.....

Knight Frank | Prime London rents fall, despite healthy demand

and here;s another article....

Prime London rent prices falling due to weak economic and jobs outlook | Europe | News

and yet another one - the most recent - 

Prime London Rents Fall Again as City Reveals More Job Losses - eProp - Commercial Property Marketplace

All over London rents are falling and will fall further because of a bad economy - nothing else. More jobless people means less can afford to even rent...or live in london...and UK especially London economy is heavily dependant of foreign workers..the more job loses the more fall in demand for housing....fact that people are buying less is because there are LESSER people moving to UK now, there are more people with no jobs who can't afford anything....and in any bad economy the rentals as well as property values tend to fall. There is a glut of properties available in London right now at bargain prices....if u were a real estate professional then you would know the true picture.


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## nyclon (Apr 3, 2011)

MovingOUTofFrance said:


> Have you heard of KNight Frank? they are one of the biggest estate agents worldwide....and if there is any credibility to their name then read this article...another picture of rentals in London.....


Well, the credibility of estate agents is questionable.

But, thank you for posting articles which give more evidence that the rental market is tight.



> Knight Frank | Prime London rents fall, despite healthy demand


A quote from the above article:

"The volume of new tenancy starts so far this year has outpaced the level seen in each of the last five years, confirming that there are healthy levels of demand for rental property."



> and here;s another article....
> 
> Prime London rent prices falling due to weak economic and jobs outlook | Europe | News


and quotes from the above:

"prime south west London, from Battersea through Wandsworth and Fulham, to Wimbledon, Richmond and Barnes, saw rents rise in the quarter and year on year, up 0.4% and 1.8% respectively."

"Demand from European tenants has also risen sharply over recent months and now accounts for almost a third of tenants in south west London. The first signs of an uplift in corporate tenant demand in Wapping and Canary Wharf allowed rents to rise marginally, up 0.3% in the third quarter and 0.8% year on year."



> and yet another one - the most recent -
> 
> Prime London Rents Fall Again as City Reveals More Job Losses - eProp - Commercial Property Marketplace


And a quote from the most recent-from a South African publication, no less:

"As we commented last month falling rents tell only half the story and despite the weakness of the headline rental statistics, overall letting volumes are up strongly, with an 18% increase in the volume of tenancies agreed over the past three months to end September versus the same period in 2011."



> There is a glut of properties available in London right now at bargain prices....if u were a real estate professional then you would know the true picture.


Really? That doesn't seem to be the case based on the articles you provided.


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## nyclon (Apr 3, 2011)

MovingOUTofFrance said:


> Actually Zoopla is now merged with findaproperty.com - they are the same site now - and it's the most well established website for properties in UK. I already mentioned in west London it would be harder to get a 2 bedroom for £1200 a month BUT IT's POSSIBLE!!! And even then I posted at least 10 listing - there are plenty more in all areas of west London.
> 
> If you go to East and South East London - rents are a lot lot cheaper...I knew people who lived in Lesisham and Deptford (white people by the way working professionals some with PHDs and other degrees before you jump to more conclusions about the safety and mix in these areas)....and it took them 15 mins on the overground trains to get to Charing Cross. Do a search on zoopla for rents under 1200 for 2 bedrooms in Lewisham - more than a 100 listings.....
> 
> P.S.... I don;t know how long it takes to go by public transport from Mortlake to Mayfair...I used to drive usually or take private car services and was never more than 15-20 mins...it's literally across the bridge next to Barnes....not that far away at all...I doubt it would take more than 30 mins even by the metro or tube whatever you call it in that country.


 I'm confused. In your previous post you said to avoid east and southeast London by making the sweeping generalization that they are unsafe areas. Last time I looked, Lewisham and Deptford were in southeast London. 

As stated in my previous post, it will take at least 45 minutes to get from Mortlake to Central London via public transport. Just getting over the bridge does not get you into Central London.


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## nyclon (Apr 3, 2011)

Toby_99833 said:


> Thanks again for all the info! It is really helpful!
> 
> I don't have a problem commuting longer distances. I don't think living I the central city would be the right choice for our family even if we COULD afford it. I'm having trouble figuring out how far away (time wise) zone 4 and 5 are from zone 1 (or specifically LSE). I'm sure it depends on where in those zones I'm living, but I'd like to be within 30-45 mins.
> 
> Any suggestions?


The TFL Journey Planner will help you get a handle on travel times:

English - Journey Planner - Transport for London


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## MovingOUTofFrance (Nov 1, 2012)

The articles are covering up the reality behind the statistics....rents now in london are lower than what they were five years ago....in any case all this is irrelevant ...u were arguing that the OP cannot find anything under £1200 a month anywhere close to central london....whether its west or east or south east london ...there are good and bad parts all over uk...i find the entire country a dangerous place to live thats why i dont live there...but concerning this post i gave evidence of plenty of properties listed in several areas of west, south, east etc all parts of london...now u dont seem to believe in the listings on zoopla...or the credibility of estate agents and u want to argue that mortlake is 45 mins away from central london instead of 30 ...lol....the OP posted that they dont mind a 30-40 min commute so i doubt they will be bothered with 45 mins....

Anyway i have no time to argue all this....someone was looking for cheap rents in london and there is a lot of misleading advice telling people that london is expensive...its not at all expensive....go to cities like singapore and hongkong....thats where rents are seriously high...not in london.


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## winkworth65 (Dec 20, 2012)

*Leasing In London*

double post


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## winkworth65 (Dec 20, 2012)

Toby_99833 said:


> Hello! I'm new here. I am applying to LSE for a PhD program and I am trying to figure out what's what before I get the admissions decision. That way if I am accepted I won't have to scramble to figure things out. Currently I was wondering what neighborhood would be good to live in. I am married with two small children. My husband will be looking for work in a hospital. Any advice would be great!
> 
> Thanks!


I agree, if you stay away from the West End & all the hype of it being an expat haven, because UKr's are so reserved, it's the only spot for you,etc.. you will do well. People are people I found no problem getting along, which makes for a much smoother transition.

Maida Vale is quite nice & can be very reasonable, nice for children.

Also, always. always, always think in terms of dollar to pound. I know it sounds obvious, but it isn't habit and can trip you up.
Outside all the great advise previously provided, be aware of council taxes, sometimes the landlord will assume the taxes,unfortunately some will bury it, til later. Make sure you know upfront because it adds up.

If you have a garden, make sure it's clear who is expected to tend/maintain it, this can add up as well, if it's not part of the lease agreement. Also London has urban foxes, that are quite acclimated to people/the city. So, depending on your set up, be aware of open doors windows & such.

When leasing, your deposit is held in a separate holding account, this is great if you have a dispute, something America does not offer for leasers. Landlords will not have free access to your deposit & it will have to be mediated if there's a problem. Very cool!

Just ask lots and lots of questions and keep an open ear & heart & remember although we speak the same language, the cultures can clash if we're not careful>smile

Best of Luck
^_^


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