# Being held hostage in hospital



## greenstreak1946 (May 28, 2017)

I know 2 cases myself from an expat friend that was admitted to a privately owned hospital in Davao. He was rush there and before they would admit him his wife had to pay the deposit required first. Then after the doctors saw him they prescribed medication and before they would give it to him his wife had to go to the hospital pharmacy and pay for it first. Then before he could be released the balance had to be paid. THIS IS BEING HELP HOSTAGE OVER A BILL PAYMENT!!! How on earth can they continue to get by with this in the Philippines? Why haven't a lawyer taken this up and sued the hospitals?

If she hadn't had the money for the medication would they have let him lay there and die?

Will the government run hospitals do the same thing as the privately owned ones will do?

art


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## Ram1957 (Oct 14, 2014)

While this has happen in the past. Current law makes it a crime to require any deposits to be paid to be admitted to a hospital.

Duterte signs bill on medical centers, practitioners refusing to treat patients | News | GMA News Online


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## greenstreak1946 (May 28, 2017)

Hey Ram,

Does this law pertain to government hospitals and private ones to? He signed into law about deposit. What about holding a person hostage until the bill is paid?



art


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## Ram1957 (Oct 14, 2014)

From what I have read it applies to all hospitals both private and public.


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## greenstreak1946 (May 28, 2017)

I experienced the hospital problem first hand with my GF in Quezon city 4 months ago. She had fluid on her lungs and they said it was an emergency to drain her lungs. I had to pay the deposit before they would admit her. Then I had to pay the doctor's fee before he would do the procedure to drain her lungs. Then I had to pay the final bill before they would release her. To me she was being held as a hostage until the bill is paid in full. 

I ask her about the doctor's fee and she said it had to be paid or he won't do the procedure. So, that meant they would let her die if I hadn't paid the fee up front!!!

art


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## Ram1957 (Oct 14, 2014)

greenstreak1946 said:


> I experienced the hospital problem first hand with my GF in Quezon city 4 months ago. She had fluid on her lungs and they said it was an emergency to drain her lungs. I had to pay the deposit before they would admit her. Then I had to pay the doctor's fee before he would do the procedure to drain her lungs. Then I had to pay the final bill before they would release her. To me she was being held as a hostage until the bill is paid in full.
> 
> I ask her about the doctor's fee and she said it had to be paid or he won't do the procedure. So, that meant they would let her die if I hadn't paid the fee up front!!!
> 
> art


According to the Bill that DU30 signed on Aug 4, 2017 this shouldn't happen again and if it does the public has actions they can take with the DOH.


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## fmartin_gila (May 15, 2011)

All this has been standard practice here in the past. Not sure how it will affect treatment in the future. I have had to go to a Pharmacy down the street (actually about 5 Kms distance) to get prescribed meds for my Asawa when she was hospitalized because the Hospital Pharmacy was out of stock. They were good enough to do some calling around to locate who had some so I could go there. One has to keep in mind that this is a different country and they don't play by the same rules we are used to.

Fred


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## greenstreak1946 (May 28, 2017)

Hey Fmartin,

I totally agree the Philippines is a much different country then the USA but it is time they get with the modern ways. Holding someone hostage over a bill is from the dark ages. I know that has always been their way of doing things. The doctor would not perform the lung drainage of fluid on my GF's lungs until I paid the fee first. They even said it was an emergency to get the fluid off of her lungs. So, if I hadn't come up with the money to pay in advance they would have just let her die. that is not acceptable in these modern times.

art


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## expatuk2016 (Mar 20, 2016)

We had this with the late mother although we never had to pay any deposit.
Luckily we had Philhealth ! But yes we had to pay for medication
before it would be dispensed, the thing that annoyed us most was
the mother was prescribed with a certain brand of milk food which cost 7000php a bag 
And at 3 times a week ! And like the mothers blood we had to go to santa cruz to buy it
I cut my finger just after we arrived here in 2011 the wife insisted i went to the hospital
And when it was my turn , it turned out i would need this injection that injection 
a overnight stay and in the morning a X-Ray !
I said to the wife its only a cut !and i said a plaster and savlon will do fine!
Went back home washed it again put some alcohol on it dried it then savlon
And then a plaster 3 days it was almost healed.
Us whiteys seem like banks.


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## greenstreak1946 (May 28, 2017)

Hey expatuk2016,

How was the Philhealth? I am thinking about getting it this time there. Is it really worth getting?

Appreciate some info.

art


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## fmartin_gila (May 15, 2011)

greenstreak1946 said:


> Hey Fmartin,
> 
> I totally agree the Philippines is a much different country then the USA but it is time they get with the modern ways. Holding someone hostage over a bill is from the dark ages. I know that has always been their way of doing things.
> art


The USA used to be that way too, don't know the timeframe of when it became civilized. We were very poor when I was a youngster. My tonsils had to be removed when I was 7 years old in 1946 and I was not allowed out of the hospital until my parents scraped up the $100 for the bill, as I remember I had to stay 2 extra days which they also had to pay for before I could be released.

Fred


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## fmartin_gila (May 15, 2011)

greenstreak1946 said:


> Hey expatuk2016,
> 
> How was the Philhealth? I am thinking about getting it this time there. Is it really worth getting?
> 
> ...


Art, There have been some discussions in the past about PhilHealth - not sure as to go about searching for them though. In our case, we are both old so we get PhilHealth and we pay no premium as she is a "Senior Citizen" and I am listed as her dependent. In her three cases of hospital confinement the total bill was reduced about 60% and I was confined last year for dehydration for 4 days and my bill was reduced about 40 % so to us it is well worth the trouble not to mention no cost to us.

Fred


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## Gary D (Oct 28, 2013)

fmartin_gila said:


> Art, There have been some discussions in the past about PhilHealth - not sure as to go about searching for them though. In our case, we are both old so we get PhilHealth and we pay no premium as she is a "Senior Citizen" and I am listed as her dependent. In her three cases of hospital confinement the total bill was reduced about 60% and I was confined last year for dehydration for 4 days and my bill was reduced about 40 % so to us it is well worth the trouble not to mention no cost to us.
> 
> Fred


Of course under the new rules you will both need to have seperate accounts as a foreigner. Also does the senior not apply to foreigners so double whammy


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## magsasaja (Jan 31, 2014)

Gary D said:


> Of course under the new rules you will both need to have seperate accounts as a foreigner. Also does the senior not apply to foreigners so double whammy


Yes the new rule change came into force on July 1st.

https://www.philhealth.gov.ph/circulars/2017/circ2017-0003.pdf


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## fmartin_gila (May 15, 2011)

Looks like we may have to do some changes in our setup. We had not been aware of this before now. I guess like most things here, you find out about it while you are doing it.

Fred


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## fmartin_gila (May 15, 2011)

Gary D said:


> Of course under the new rules you will both need to have seperate accounts as a foreigner. Also does the senior not apply to foreigners so double whammy


That is why there is approx 20% difference in the reduction of each of our bills. She gets the 'senior discount' and I don't, then the PhilHealth reduces from that point.

Fred


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## Asian Spirit (Mar 1, 2010)

My wife works a full time job and has Philhealth. She has me on her policy as a beneficiary. The times I have been in the hospital, her policy takes care of me and I automatically am given the senior discount. When admitted to hospital they know my age and wife photo copies my drivers license thus the discount is given. Who am I to complain?


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## magsasaja (Jan 31, 2014)

Jet Lag said:


> My wife works a full time job and has Philhealth. She has me on her policy as a beneficiary. The times I have been in the hospital, her policy takes care of me and I automatically am given the senior discount. When admitted to hospital they know my age and wife photo copies my drivers license thus the discount is given. Who am I to complain?



That was under the old rules. Foreigners are no longer covered as dependents by their Filipino spouse.
The new fees are 15,000 per year for SSRV holders and 17,000 for other foreign citizens working and residing in the Philippines.

If you look at the link i posted it explains everything in more detail.


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## Datchworth (Jul 5, 2015)

The new arrangements set out in magsasaja's link greatly change the calculation on Philhealth. Before it was mainly either a low cost insurance giving limited benefit for those of us here on small pensions, or the only insurance for those with existing conditions who would be turned away by private insurers. In my case I viewed it as a fall back in that previously I could qualify, for free, under my Senior Citizen's wife's cover, if ever I developed existing conditions not then covered under my private policy.

Now the premium is P15-17k pa and, importantly, Z package benefits are not included. These are the very conditions which can be most expensive to treat ,and especially for Seniors, more likely to be an issue. Connect that with the small benefits...40% has been quoted in this thread, but the fact is you can never be sure what percentage you are going to get. You only find out when you claim. In my experience in a couple of areas of medicine it can range from almost 100%, exceptionally, but down to 20 or 30% more usually. Contrast that with private insurance which usually pays 90 - 100%, though they do restrict how much you can claim by placing limits.

So the Philhealth premium raise makes it about half the cost of a private premium for younger foreigners and around a third of private premiums for older. Given the Z package restriction and its low/uncertain benefits I don't think it is worth it if you can afford private cover. Unless you live on into your 80s here, because then private cover does get much more expensive.

No point either having it alongside private cover as if you claim privately they will deduct the amount of any Philhealth claim you tell them about.


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## fmartin_gila (May 15, 2011)

Datchworth said:


> The new arrangements set out in magsasaja's link greatly change the calculation on Philhealth. Before it was mainly either a low cost insurance giving limited benefit for those of us here on small pensions, or the only insurance for those with existing conditions who would be turned away by private insurers. In my case I viewed it as a fall back in that previously I could qualify, for free, under my Senior Citizen's wife's cover, if ever I developed existing conditions not then covered under my private policy.
> 
> Now the premium is P15-17k pa and, importantly, Z package benefits are not included. These are the very conditions which can be most expensive to treat ,and especially for Seniors, more likely to be an issue. Connect that with the small benefits...40% has been quoted in this thread, but the fact is you can never be sure what percentage you are going to get. You only find out when you claim. In my experience in a couple of areas of medicine it can range from almost 100%, exceptionally, but down to 20 or 30% more usually. Contrast that with private insurance which usually pays 90 - 100%, though they do restrict how much you can claim by placing limits.
> 
> ...


Good analysis. As I am nearing 80, it is a critical thinking point.

Fred


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## Gary D (Oct 28, 2013)

It also looks like the premiums will rise over time for both locals and foreigners according to a news report. I think they are looking at a top 40k for foreigners.


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## Asian Spirit (Mar 1, 2010)

Gary D said:


> It also looks like the premiums will rise over time for both locals and foreigners according to a news report. I think they are looking at a top 40k for foreigners.


I guess everything keeps going up in cost so why not insurance. I end up in the hospital from time to time due to COPD and will see if I can still be part of my wife's FhilHealth. From what she is told there is no change. Perhaps that's because she works for a place that is under government control. Also her employer pays most of the monthly premium. My wife's portion is less than P200.00 per month and that has not changed.


Jet


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## Gary D (Oct 28, 2013)

Jet Lag said:


> I guess everything keeps going up in cost so why not insurance. I end up in the hospital from time to time due to COPD and will see if I can still be part of my wife's FhilHealth. From what she is told there is no change. Perhaps that's because she works for a place that is under government control. Also her employer pays most of the monthly premium. My wife's portion is less than P200.00 per month and that has not changed.
> 
> 
> Jet


I think the reason behind no change is that it didn't start 1st July its been delayed due to the usual filibustering


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## Hey_Joe (Sep 13, 2016)

jet lag said:


> i end up in the hospital from time to time due to copd and will see if i can still be part of my wife's fhilhealth. From what she is told there is no change. Jet


Suggest you read the attached Phil Health file. You are no longer covered unless you self enroll.

View attachment Phil-Health.pdf


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## bidrod (Mar 31, 2015)

Gary D said:


> I think the reason behind no change is that it didn't start 1st July its been delayed due to the usual filibustering


Please provide a government source for that statement. I can find none.

Chuck


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## Asian Spirit (Mar 1, 2010)

Hey_Joe said:


> Suggest you read the attached Phil Health file. You are no longer covered unless you self enroll.
> 
> View attachment 81306


Well, we will see the next hospital stay. In all the years I've lived here I have found that for every rule or law there are 100 exceptions and conditions.

I went to my regular hospital one week ago just to get a urine culture done. My daughter took my payment to the billing window to pay. They know me there and had my daughter come get my drivers license for it's number so they could give the senior discount. They said all seniors are treated the same and the discount is applied. That's not PhilHealth but the discount on services.
Usually take jeepnies to and from there too and my 13yr old daughter always makes sure she tells the driver that I'm a senior for the silly discount-Hahaha.


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## Hey_Joe (Sep 13, 2016)

Jet Lag said:


> Well, we will see the next hospital stay. In all the years I've lived here I have found that for every rule or law there are 100 exceptions and conditions.
> 
> I went to my regular hospital one week ago just to get a urine culture done. My daughter took my payment to the billing window to pay. They know me there and had my daughter come get my drivers license for it's number so they could give the senior discount. They said all seniors are treated the same and the discount is applied. That's not PhilHealth but the discount on services.
> Usually take jeepnies to and from there too and my 13yr old daughter always makes sure she tells the driver that I'm a senior for the silly discount-Hahaha.


Taking that silly discount could result in imprisonment of not less than six (6) months and a fine of not less than Fifty thousand pesos (Php50,000.00) but not more than One hundred thousand pesos (Php100,000.00). “If the offender is an alien or a foreigner, he/she shall be deported immediately after service of sentence. 

They could also come up with some charges of child neglect for using your 13 year old child to game the system.

Republic Act No. 9994 | Official Gazette of the Republic of the Philippines


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## Asian Spirit (Mar 1, 2010)

Hey_Joe said:


> Taking that silly discount could result in imprisonment of not less than six (6) months and a fine of not less than Fifty thousand pesos (Php50,000.00) but not more than One hundred thousand pesos (Php100,000.00). “If the offender is an alien or a foreigner, he/she shall be deported immediately after service of sentence.
> 
> They could also come up with some charges of child neglect for using your 13 year old child to game the system.
> 
> Republic Act No. 9994 | Official Gazette of the Republic of the Philippines


Not hardly. First my daughter does it just for fun--being silly on the jeepney because I am a senior. If the hospital or others want to give a discount let them. Now if I were to use a senior discount card to do that then yes, a law would be broken

On that subject, I wonder just how many expats have that senior card and use it? There are over 30,000 US retirees here that are on social security. That number does not reflect the thousands of others that have other retirement plans and or are from other countries.
I am not advocating illegal activity by any means but if someone is going to give me a discount without the use of an illegal ID card, I'm gonna accept it.


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## magsasaja (Jan 31, 2014)

bidrod said:


> Please provide a government source for that statement. I can find none.
> 
> Chuck


As far as i know there is no official statement from the government, however i went to pay last week and was informed i could still pay at the old rates until the end of the year. I did ask if it was possible to pay a few more years in advance at that price! 
Spoke to the head honcho and he told me they have decided to have a grace period until the end of the year, so that foreigners have time to be informed about the new regulations.


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## magsasaja (Jan 31, 2014)

Jet Lag said:


> Well, we will see the next hospital stay. In all the years I've lived here I have found that for every rule or law there are 100 exceptions and conditions.


Always better to keep a open mind whilst living here, as it sure helps simplify the day.


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## simonsays (Feb 11, 2009)

late to the party.

Do you guys all get insurance ?

Or bahala na ?? 

And then blame everybody but yourself.


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## bigpearl (Jan 24, 2016)

Gary D said:


> I think the reason behind no change is that it didn't start 1st July its been delayed due to the usual filibustering[/QUOTE
> 
> Is that like fartarkling and procrastination Gary? Sounds like most countries lack of commitment for the betterment of the people, those that can least afford and from what I read for my circumstances, private cover may have to be the sensible option and we look.
> 
> Cheers, Steve.


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## fmartin_gila (May 15, 2011)

magsasaja said:


> Always better to keep a open mind whilst living here, as it sure helps simplify the day.


Yep - everyday seems to be a new circus. Went to LTO to renew the registration on the little van. Seems they can't access the records of region 7 from region 6 and they tell me not to operate it from 1 Sept and that it has been operated illegally since January as the new permanent plate that has been on it for 2 & 1/2 years ends in 1. They have no stickers available anyway to show that the registration has been renewed. LTO - what a JOKE.

Fred


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