# moving to New Zealand from USA...what to expect?



## MrsRose

My husband and I, along with our 2 year old, are planning to move from the United States to New Zealand (Christchurch). 
This is going to be an adventure for our family. We have never lived outside the United States. My husband and I enjoy the outdoors very much and cannot help but be captivated by New Zealand's beauty, and all that we've read about the way of life there. 

My husband is a commercial/industrial electrician, so we'd like to know id Christchurch is a promising place for him to secure a job in the electrical/construction field. 

Any advice or helpful information about what to expect from life in New Zealand would be most appreciated. (best suburbs in Christchurch to live, what is life like in New Zealand compared to the States, opinions about the best and worst things about living in NZ (Christchurch, in particular).

Thanks.


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## topcat83

MrsRose said:


> My husband and I, along with our 2 year old, are planning to move from the United States to New Zealand (Christchurch).
> This is going to be an adventure for our family. We have never lived outside the United States. My husband and I enjoy the outdoors very much and cannot help but be captivated by New Zealand's beauty, and all that we've read about the way of life there.
> 
> My husband is a commercial/industrial electrician, so we'd like to know id Christchurch is a promising place for him to secure a job in the electrical/construction field.
> 
> Any advice or helpful information about what to expect from life in New Zealand would be most appreciated. (best suburbs in Christchurch to live, what is life like in New Zealand compared to the States, opinions about the best and worst things about living in NZ (Christchurch, in particular).
> 
> Thanks.


Hi there

You will find things different here - look for other earlier threads that discuss the things that American citizens have found.

The main themes that seem to come out are 

the expense of electrical items
the lack of convenience foods
the lack of insulation and heating in older houses.

1 and 2 are difficult to get round (especially as US appliances work off a different power supply - we use 240v like the UK). But for 3 (which is I think the most important) just make sure that the house you rent/buy has been insulated. Newer builds are usually OK.

Brits find the same problems - but I think for Americans it's an even bigger change.

But I think the laid-back lifestyle of NZ and the wonderful outdoors more than makes up for it


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## LBLachut

*Moving to NZ*



MrsRose said:


> My husband and I, along with our 2 year old, are planning to move from the United States to New Zealand (Christchurch).
> This is going to be an adventure for our family. We have never lived outside the United States. My husband and I enjoy the outdoors very much and cannot help but be captivated by New Zealand's beauty, and all that we've read about the way of life there.
> 
> My husband is a commercial/industrial electrician, so we'd like to know id Christchurch is a promising place for him to secure a job in the electrical/construction field.
> 
> Any advice or helpful information about what to expect from life in New Zealand would be most appreciated. (best suburbs in Christchurch to live, what is life like in New Zealand compared to the States, opinions about the best and worst things about living in NZ (Christchurch, in particular).
> Thanks.





Hi MissRose,

My husband and I just moved to Christchurch from the States about a month ago. He is a mechanical engineer and works in sewer systems. I agree with what tomcat has said. Also to add to that I would say when grocery shopping you don't have near the selection of items. My husband and I are pretty health conscience and it is difficult to find low fat options at the grocery. Not that you can't find some alternatives to make it work, if that's important to you. I would say eating out in general is somewhat more expensive, but not at this current exchange rate.  I guess it's depends on where you are coming from in the U.S. We came from middle of nowhere Ohio, so cost of living was inexpensive. 

Finding housing in Chch can be difficult. With the influx of people coming in to help with the rebuild and people being displaced from their homes to have their homes fixed from earthquake damage. I would say if you find something that will work for your family jump on it. We found something, but thought it was to soon to make a decision because we had not looked long. We lost that house and then had a difficult time finding another house. 

It might sound like there are a lot of negatives, but these are just things I wish I would have known beforehand to be prepared. Otherwise I can honestly say we made the right decision to move here. We are loving it so far! People here are so helpful and genuinely nice! So much to do outdoors  It is an unbelievable place! I hope we are able to stay longer than our two year visas. If you have any other more specific questions I would love to help you out. Good luck with everything! Cheers!


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## MrsRose

Thanks everyone! 

We are coming from Las Vegas, Nevada. Not sure how cost of living here compares to Ohio. 

I'm glad for all of the information. It's very helpful to hear all of the "negatives" as well, as that will help us to look into those things ahead of time and be prepared. We are still in the beginning stages of the immigration process. After having submitted our EOI and having sufficient points, we are currently submitting our Full check Initial Assessment. 
We're pretty sure we'll need to rent when we first arrive...that way we can get to know the area and decide where to settle.

Our family is not all that into "convenience foods" anyways. We like eating organic and cooking from scratch as much as possible. (hoping there are plenty of farmers markets in NZ...)


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## MrsRose

another question regarding the immigration process:

About how long can we expect the immigration process to take (rough estimate, assuming we're approved and all goes smoothly)?


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## mturnbull

Hey,

Hope the visa and moving process goes smoothyl for you guys. Have been living n Christchurch for 5 weeks now (from UK) and am really enjoying life here. Certainly compared to the UK people are really friendly and the scenery never ceases to amaze me. I would say that renting in Christchurch is tricky given the number of people trying to find a place outside of the earthquake affected areas, but it's not impossible to find a decent place.


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## LBLachut

MrsRose said:


> another question regarding the immigration process:
> 
> About how long can we expect the immigration process to take (rough estimate, assuming we're approved and all goes smoothly)?


We got two year visas. We went through an immigration lawyer who helped expedite the application, so it took about 2 weeks. This was after we completed health requirements (physical, blood work, xrays) and background checks. We have heard that it can take up to 6 weeks based on possible backlog. 

Make sure you are very thorough with requirements and follow all instructions in submitting the application to make sure you get approved the first time.


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## Jhagemeister

MrsRose said:


> another question regarding the immigration process:
> 
> About how long can we expect the immigration process to take (rough estimate, assuming we're approved and all goes smoothly)?


After all of the medicals and police checks we went through the Consulate General in LA as we are in the Western part of the US and it took two days to process. Our applications were for a 3 year student visa and a 3 year work visa.


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## graceschmidt

Hello, I dont have much advice to give, but we are in the same situation...my husband is an electrician, but we are really wanting to be in the Auckland area...if you would be willing, I'd love to be able to email back and forth, and be able to update each other on any new info we have figured out... Are you using an immigration service or doing it on your own? Anyway, let me know if you would like to exchange email addresses...thanks, and good luck to you!


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## anski

Hi,

Once you have made 5 posts you can send MrsRose or anybody else a PM Private Message & that way you can exchange email addresses, likewise MrsRose could PM you with the information if she chooses to.

Good luck.
Anyway it''s always a should we or shouldn't we. Believe me I am an expert at relocating, done it more than 10 times in the past 55 years with the most moves in the past 14 years. It's a huge adventure & learning curve, & even if it oes not work out you will still take away life experiences.


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## graceschmidt

Oh, OK...thank you! 8^) I'm obviously a newbie at this 8^)...cheers! Grace


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## USAGary

Should be leaving the USA within the month (cross my fingers) and on the way to a life on the North Island beach at the mouth of the Manawatu River. I look forward to great fish and chips, chocolate, fresh garden vegetables, good environment and nice people. I'll be the big white American on a bicycle accompanied by my Kiwi wife if you happen to cruise by. I am really looking forward to a less hectic life and enjoying the outdoors. We'll be reviving the local radio station too so keep your ears open for "Foxy and the Yank."


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## jawnbc

USAGary said:


> Should be leaving the USA within the month (cross my fingers) and on the way to a life on the North Island beach at the mouth of the Manawatu River. I look forward to great fish and chips, chocolate, fresh garden vegetables, good environment and nice people. I'll be the big white American on a bicycle accompanied by my Kiwi wife if you happen to cruise by. I am really looking forward to a less hectic life and enjoying the outdoors. We'll be reviving the local radio station too so keep your ears open for "Foxy and the Yank."


Awesome! Be sure to webcast it as well!


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## USAGary

jawnbc said:


> Awesome! Be sure to webcast it as well!


That's the plan. Also guests via Skype and QQ.


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## Kiakaha_Chch

Mrs Rose



I am from Christchurch which is my home town - I grew up there and I know everything there is to know about Chch, I literally just left (thank God I married a Canadian!)

Pro's
- Awesome access to beaches, mountains (hiking, skiing), rivers, adventure tourism etc
- Generally speaking its cleaner, safer (so long as you're not reckless or just plain stupid).
- Less fast food (which is also expensive on purpose), even though we're 2nd fattest in the world to the US, we don't rely that much on convenience food. We don't have 7/11's, we have dairies which sell bread, milk, junkfood, magazines etc at exorbitant prices, usually run by immigrants. 
- Its very easy to have a rural existence in an urban city like Christchurch
- There is no such thing as traffic (comparatively to Auckland), even during 'rush hour' its pretty cruisy.
- Everyone is pretty friendly, and expect you to be open and friendly as well. Its pretty normal to have strangers nod their head and smile at you during a walk, or have people open doors for you, or let you go in front of them in traffic. If you break down on side of the road, people will generously and sincerely help you, no strings attached.
- No large or poisonous animals to worry about, the animal at the top of the food chain out here is your friendly neighborhood cat. You might see or hear the odd possom at night. But seriously - all we've got are lovely little critter insects that don't hurt you that our beautiful native birds like to eat.
- Unlike the US, we are not workaholics and we don't value nor encourage workaholism. Our business hours are family friendly. Most stores open at 8am and close at 5-6pm (all dairies close at 8pm). So if you forgot to buy some milk, you harden up and go without til the next day unless you're so desperate you drive to the nearby BP gas station to sell an organ just to afford their milk. Theres no such thing as 24 hour Walmarts or Drugstores.


Con's

- Umm I hate to say this but most New Zealanders have a strong distaste for Americans. And its highly likely you will get beaten up if you're overheard to say "Gawd Bless AMERICA!!", "If it weren't for America..", "We rule the free world!", "George Bush - what a wonderful man he is!" Also, politics is much more of a private thing in NZ. Its highly insulting to demand a politics debate from someone (since who anyone votes for is their own business not yours) and they hate it even more litening to American's spitting tirades on the opposing side to their chosen party. We honestly don't care.

- In case you've been living in a cave, or maybe CNN or Fox just didn't think it was news worthy but last February (2011), Chch was hit by a huge earthquake. It was bad. Our CBD (downtown) was reduced to rubble, the majority east side of Christchurch is unlivable (because the city is built on an old swamp). Our infrastructure is back up but things are really difficult for a lot of residents hereformany reasons. If you're a trades person, we love you and want you to help us build our city, if not, theres not a lot of work opportunity. Also, the housing situation here is pretty bad. Be expected to pay A LOT for a house that is undamaged and comes with no insulation. Because of the rebuild, no matter where you live you will have to live with the sound of roadworks on your street for a very long time since the majority of the city's pipes are heavily damaged and need to be repaired. Oh did I mention the roads? Lets just say - you're gonna need a car no wait a 4WD with excellent suspension. Though its great if you're in the car mechanics industry. 

My recommendation, is that you live in the West side in undamaged family friendly suburbs like Halswel, Hillmorton, Westmorland, Papanui, Belfast. And if you really like the rural lifestyle with a commute to Chch I recommend Lincoln, Rangiora, Pegasus, Tai tapu, Rolleston. But be prepared to come with a lot of money as houses are in high demand and landlords/realtors have no qualms about raising the cost with the high demand.

Last but not least, the aftershocks are slowly but surely going away (hopefully! kinda hard to predict), but they do still occur every now and then but theyre nothing to worry about. Just little wobblies.


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## Kiakaha_Chch

On a second note I also recommend you research everything to do with the February earthquake and how its impacted us, and the infrastructure and systems etc just so you know what you're getting yourself into...

And on a third note if people hear your accent and suddenly look grumpy at you, say you're Canadian and you're from some some obscure place like Saskatoon lol.. If you want to win New Zealanders over quickly - learn rugby and enjoy it - fast. A love of rugby will cover all your sins incl being American. Jokes LOL


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## MrsRose

Kiakaha_Chch said:


> - Umm I hate to say this but most New Zealanders have a strong distaste for Americans. And its highly likely you will get beaten up if you're overheard to say "Gawd Bless AMERICA!!", "If it weren't for America..", "We rule the free world!", "George Bush - what a wonderful man he is!" Also, politics is much more of a private thing in NZ. Its highly insulting to demand a politics debate from someone (since who anyone votes for is their own business not yours) and they hate it even more litening to American's spitting tirades on the opposing side to their chosen party. We honestly don't care.



Haha. I'm hoping we won't be perceived as 'typical' Americans. We don't exactly have the 'typical' patriotic attitude about the US...hence, the immigrating to NZ. 

We understand that the US is a good country to live in compared to some other places when it comes to cost of living, opportunity, freedom, etc... But really, the US isn't what it used to be. And I don't know how anyone could argue that we rule the free world when we are so financially indebted to _other_ countries. 



Anyways, where our family moves in NZ (north or south island) will depend on where we get the best job offer.


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## cliche

Kiakaha_Chch said:


> Mrs Rose
> 
> 
> 
> I am from Christchurch which is my home town - I grew up there and I know everything there is to know about Chch, I literally just left (thank God I married a Canadian!)
> 
> .



Thank you for a detailed post. I loved the South Island and work in IT (may up my skills if I decided to live there). I visited the South Island last year and fell in love with it (West Coast, Te Anau, Queen Charlotte Drive, Haast Pass etc). I visited Christchurch a week before the earthquake too.


Can I ask you why you seem happy about leaving Christchurch ?


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## USAGary

Kiakaha_Chch said:


> I hate to say this but most New Zealanders have a strong distaste for Americans.


Kiakaha_Chch,

Wow, so I take it you don't like Americans. Stereotypes abound! :lol::lol::lol: It is quite trendy not to like Americans, I googled it and found out. I am quite satisfied to leave people to their own bigotry, I know everyone does not share the same opinion. USA is on my birth certificate and not imprinted on my soul or forehead. But I do have a Kiwi wedding ring on my finger. 

I had asked about living in Christchurch and everyone told me it was destroyed and only the rich parts survived. I like it because it is a small town by the ocean. The "pros" above are the trade-offs of living in a small town. Rural life where the streets roll up before dark, less people and so less of many things. Must be quite quaint and I look forward to visiting it. Thanks for the posts. :clap2:


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## jawnbc

Antipathy towards Americans isn't unique to NZ; generally huge countries that have the population and economy to allow insularity inspire rancour in others. You could change American to Russian or Chinese and get a similar reaction. 

Prejudice isn't right; neither is behaving badly and using culture as an excuse. I've seen many do the former towards Americans...and many Americans do the latter.

Be a good, mindful, and self-reflective person and it's all good!


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## Kiakaha_Chch

cliche said:


> Thank you for a detailed post. I loved the South Island and work in IT (may up my skills if I decided to live there). I visited the South Island last year and fell in love with it (West Coast, Te Anau, Queen Charlotte Drive, Haast Pass etc). I visited Christchurch a week before the earthquake too.
> 
> 
> Can I ask you why you seem happy about leaving Christchurch ?


Well Im not happy per say, I don't know if I mentioned it but my husband and I intended to stay permanently in Chch. Its a beautiful city, I grew up there, my entire family lives there. 
The main reason we left is because of the housing crisis (and it literally is a crisis). A lot of people in Chch became homeless because their houses fell down or tilted or sunk etc etc And the majority of the east side (where my mother lives) is now labeled red zone which means you can't buy a property there let alone live in one. My mother was very lucky. She lives in the north end of the east side where the land is more stable and apart from a few cracks in her house she still has has house intact. So because Im married, and I intend to have children soon our long term plan was to move from renting to owning a home in Christchurch. That is now virtually impossible. I got married in July 2011, and my husband and I moved into the only thing available - a heavily damaged flat (apartment) with cracks so big you could stick your hand through them, no insulation in the walls, no insulation in the roof or floor. And half the floor had sunk as well. It was a nightmare to heat (except in summer because the house was north facing), and the house was constantly drafty and cold and there was a serious mould problem. But because it was intact and in the 'green' zone it was considered livable. We couldn't choose anything else on our modest income. And as much as I hate to say it, the majority of modest homes have that issue - no insulation. Its an epidemic in the entire country. Because I have lived in that kind of housing my entire life, I frequently get bronchitis and asthma attacks. Asthma is a very common condition in NZ children and its because of the poor housing. New houses that are being built are getting insulated, so where ever you move to make sure the house was built in the last 5 years.

It was not my husband who suggested we move back to Canada, it was my mother, and it was a very difficult decision to make. I know Vancouver is hugely expensive, but I also know fruit and vegetables are a lot cheaper in Canada than here, my profession is valued and highly paid in Canada compared to NZ where there are no jobs (in occupational therapy) and my husband's qualification that he obtained in Canada are not recognised by the NZ govt, so he could only work menial jobs on a minimum wage, that in my opinion is not a great start for raising a family.


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## Kiakaha_Chch

USAGary said:


> Kiakaha_Chch,
> 
> Wow, so I take it you don't like Americans. Stereotypes abound! :lol::lol::lol: It is quite trendy not to like Americans, I googled it and found out. I am quite satisfied to leave people to their own bigotry, I know everyone does not share the same opinion. USA is on my birth certificate and not imprinted on my soul or forehead. But I do have a Kiwi wedding ring on my finger.
> 
> I had asked about living in Christchurch and everyone told me it was destroyed and only the rich parts survived. I like it because it is a small town by the ocean. The "pros" above are the trade-offs of living in a small town. Rural life where the streets roll up before dark, less people and so less of many things. Must be quite quaint and I look forward to visiting it. Thanks for the posts. :clap2:


I don't hate Americans. Ive got close friends who live in Alaska and Georgia and Washington, and I LOVE Seattle and plan to visit it a lot while living in Vancouver.
Im just being genuinely honest because the general population of New Zealand is really humble and quiet and close knit and interdependant. Think of the Lord of the Rings movie. Americans are the 'big people' and New Zealanders are kind of like the hobbits. Obviously in the movie, hobbits meet and build friendships with the Men but for the most part they consider the men to be overbearing, overconfident and over there and avoidable. 

I of all people would love to meet an American who has a realistic opinion of their govt, actually talks and acts on their responsibilities instead of just harping on only about their 'rights' based on a flawed constitution. Are willing to be friends with people with opposing views to their own. Values community instead of worshiping individualism, and like me enjoys wiping their bottom with american gossip magazines. 

On a high point the one thing I love about American's (at least the ones Ive met) is how hospitable they are. Maybe its a southern thing, Im not sure if northerners are the same. The only exception being border security people who scared the crap out of me and put me in a seperate room to my husband and accused me of wanting to get into the US so I could dump my Canadian, get pregnant to an American and live off alimony for the rest of my life. For starters I didn't even know what alimony was, all I wanted to do was visit Seattle zoo which had a fantastic reputation. Instead I was treated like some kind of ignorant savage from some backward Pacific island and I was spoken to as if I was mentally retarded. Hopefully when I get my dual citizenship they will treat me more nicely next time I enter the US.


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## USAGary

jawnbc said:


> Be a good, mindful, and self-reflective person and it's all good!


Whether you are from the "world power" or not this is good advice. :focus:


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## USAGary

Kiakaha_Chch said:


> ... I of all people would love to meet an American who has a realistic opinion of their govt, actually talks and acts on their responsibilities instead of just harping on only about their 'rights' based on a flawed constitution. Are willing to be friends with people with opposing views to their own. Values community instead of worshiping individualism, and like me enjoys wiping their bottom with american gossip magazines...


Kiakaha_Chch,
I have lived in every continental USA State and I will tell you that people are people. I have lived in other countries as well. So the regular person on the street in Beijing, Washington, NYC, Tokyo, Manila, Kuala Lumpur etc. all want the same thing. A fair shake.

The OCCUPY movement has swept the world because it tells people that these streets are ours. "WHOSE STREETS? OUR STREETS!" Let's make them as we want them. We are the ones living here.

Don't start with anti-American things like "'rights' based on a flawed constitution" - so we can count on part of the solution happening.


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## USAGary

Occupy protests in New Zealand - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia too slow to add the link sorry :focus:


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## Kiakaha_Chch

Id say the ****walk was more successful than the occupy movement in NZ lol


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## USAGary

Kiakaha_Chch said:


> Id say the ****walk was more successful than the occupy movement in NZ lol


GREAT THAT BOTH ARE SUCCESSES AS THEY CONTINUE TO BE IN THE USA TOO! :clap2::clap2::clap2::clap2::clap2: I probably wouldn't even consider moving to NZ otherwise.
:focus:


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## Simmy_M

This is a great news that you are moving to Christchurch. Try to pack all your belongings which are necessary and highly important. Don't forget to take all your essential documents required during move like passport, visas, driving license and identity cards. The goods which are heavy like sofa, bed and Almira need not to pack as they require large place. The better option is to sale them and buy a new one there in Christchurch. 

One of the most important thing, take care of your 2yr small baby during the relocation. Don't take much panic as it can affect little baby's health.


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## expatrion

Get used to giving up taco bell....But the main thing is to have a positive attitude and everything will work out.


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## MrsRose

expatrion said:


> Get used to giving up taco bell....But the main thing is to have a positive attitude and everything will work out.


I wouldn't eat Taco Bell even if we lived in the States for the rest of our lives! Lol!


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## USAGary

I love Taco Bell, decent Mexi-style fast food that's cheap, especially the $.75 tacos with the fire hot sauce... mmmmmmmmmmm vegetarian friendly to boot.










Pretty funny spoof here: Taco Bell's New Green Menu Takes No Ingredients From Nature | The Onion - America's Finest News Source | Onion News Network

Arby's would be a great add too!









In reality I rarely eat at fast food places these days and this kind of food is cheaper to make at home... and tastes better. But on the run it is good to have a few choices.


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## Kiakaha_Chch

expatrion said:


> Get used to giving up taco bell....But the main thing is to have a positive attitude and everything will work out.



Oh Taco Bell is disgusting. we're not missing out on anything lol by not having Taco Bell. There is one authentic mexican restaurant (only one!) here in Chch called the Burrito Brothers it only just opened last year, price are expensive though but food is fantastic.


When I went to the US and Canada I couldn't beleive how many fast food places there are, theres only the high ranking fast food places here which I'll name:

McDonalds
Burger King
Domino's
Pizza Hut
Subway
KFC


Thats about it.. I think.. I think a place called Red Robin opened somewhere in the North Island but it went bankrupt.. Its easy to find a Mcdonalds here but the rest are a bit more rarer depending where you are. If you live in a small to middle sized town its likely you will only get one fast food takeaway. If you don't know how to cook, you will either starve or learn real quick how to cook...LOL And if your curious, microwave meals cost 4x as much as from scratch. Read em and weep!


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## USAGary

This is how they package them in their home country since they are owned by the same corp (yum yum) and I read they have plans to do the same in NZ.


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## topcat83

Kiakaha_Chch said:


> Oh Taco Bell is disgusting. we're not missing out on anything lol by not having Taco Bell. There is one authentic mexican restaurant (only one!) here in Chch called the Burrito Brothers it only just opened last year, price are expensive though but food is fantastic.
> 
> 
> When I went to the US and Canada I couldn't beleive how many fast food places there are, theres only the high ranking fast food places here which I'll name:
> 
> McDonalds
> Burger King
> Domino's
> Pizza Hut
> Subway
> KFC
> 
> 
> Thats about it.. I think.. I think a place called Red Robin opened somewhere in the North Island but it went bankrupt.. Its easy to find a Mcdonalds here but the rest are a bit more rarer depending where you are. If you live in a small to middle sized town its likely you will only get one fast food takeaway. If you don't know how to cook, you will either starve or learn real quick how to cook...LOL And if your curious, microwave meals cost 4x as much as from scratch. Read em and weep!


There's a 'Flying Burrito Brothers' in Wellington and Tauranga now too - see Contact Us - The Flying Burrito Brothers

The chain that has now disappeared was 'Red Rooster'. Also missing off your list is 'Wendys', 'Dunkin Donuts' (yuk) and - more recently (and fewer branches but growing) 'Carls Jr'.

When we travel NZ we measure the size of the town according to the shops it has - Large towns have the first column, smaller towns have the second column.

- Bunnings vs Hammer Hardware
- Countdown, New World or Pak'n'Save vs Four Square
- Briscoes vs $2 shop
- Macdonalds vs greasy spoon cafe.


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## MrsRose

Our family doesn't eat fast food, and we're not big on microwave meals either. I like to cook pretty much everything from scratch. Sounds like, as far as diet is concerned, we'll do just fine in NZ. 

The important question is: Can you find good seafood and sushi in NZ?


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## isellpower

Kiakaha_Chch said:


> I don't hate Americans. Ive got close friends who live in Alaska and Georgia and Washington, and I LOVE Seattle and plan to visit it a lot while living in Vancouver.
> Im just being genuinely honest because the general population of New Zealand is really humble and quiet and close knit and interdependant. Think of the Lord of the Rings movie. Americans are the 'big people' and New Zealanders are kind of like the hobbits. Obviously in the movie, hobbits meet and build friendships with the Men but for the most part they consider the men to be overbearing, overconfident and over there and avoidable.
> 
> I of all people would love to meet an American who has a realistic opinion of their govt, actually talks and acts on their responsibilities instead of just harping on only about their 'rights' based on a flawed constitution. Are willing to be friends with people with opposing views to their own. Values community instead of worshiping individualism, and like me enjoys wiping their bottom with american gossip magazines.
> 
> On a high point the one thing I love about American's (at least the ones Ive met) is how hospitable they are. Maybe its a southern thing, Im not sure if northerners are the same. The only exception being border security people who scared the crap out of me and put me in a seperate room to my husband and accused me of wanting to get into the US so I could dump my Canadian, get pregnant to an American and live off alimony for the rest of my life. For starters I didn't even know what alimony was, all I wanted to do was visit Seattle zoo which had a fantastic reputation. Instead I was treated like some kind of ignorant savage from some backward Pacific island and I was spoken to as if I was mentally retarded. Hopefully when I get my dual citizenship they will treat me more nicely next time I enter the US.


Wow, you have some STRANGE views of the States. I currently live in Seattle and you don't want to know all of the things we think of the Canadians. Mainly, and this was also the prevalent thought when I lived in Eastern Europe, Canada has the benefit of sharing a large border with the States. They hide behind the U.S. and its military like cowards. Being such a close neighbor to the U.S. spares them from having to pay for a large military. Canadians would be speaking Russian if it wasn't for the U.S. I was offered a job in NZ, but I've got to tell you I have some reservations after reading about the ignorance and blatant jealously of its people. I can remember vividly our lessons as a child in Romania and the respect we were taught for the U.S. due to them trying to keep the peace all over the world. Imagine what Russia, China, and GERMANY wold have done without the U.S. either fighting them or just being big enough to cause a huge problem for them. Amazing that a people can be so unappreciative and ungrateful. 
My favorite line from school (in Eastern Europe) 
Canada: America's hat


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## MrsRose

isellpower said:


> Wow, you have some STRANGE views of the States. I currently live in Seattle and you don't want to know all of the things we think of the Canadians. Mainly, and this was also the prevalent thought when I lived in Eastern Europe, Canada has the benefit of sharing a large border with the States. They hide behind the U.S. and its military like cowards. Being such a close neighbor to the U.S. spares them from having to pay for a large military. Canadians would be speaking Russian if it wasn't for the U.S. I was offered a job in NZ, but I've got to tell you I have some reservations after reading about the ignorance and blatant jealously of its people. I can remember vividly our lessons as a child in Romania and the respect we were taught for the U.S. due to them trying to keep the peace all over the world. Imagine what Russia, China, and GERMANY wold have done without the U.S. either fighting them or just being big enough to cause a huge problem for them. Amazing that a people can be so unappreciative and ungrateful.
> My favorite line from school (in Eastern Europe)
> Canada: America's hat




The US of yesteryear is a very different US than that of today. I think, in general, that the attitude of distaste of many countries towards the US is more toward the people today, and not the country in history. There is no doubt is was a great and honorable thing for the US to have stepped in against Germany and the other villains of the Holocaust. But both the US and Germany are very different countries today than they were then. In fact, many young people in the US today don't even know what the holocaust was, or who Hitler is. There are actually a lot of people in the US that seriously believe that the Holocaust never even happened! 

And today, it seems the US is only interested in aiding countries where they have something to gain by aiding them. 

You will find ignorance in the people of every nation in the world to some degree. And you find greater hostility toward Americans in countries other than NZ. 

The US is, in many ways, a great nation. But it's got it's own problems too. 
There are many friendly, caring, humble people in the US. And there are many unfriendly, arrogant, and uncaring people in the Us as well. But that can probably be said of any nation in the world.


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## isellpower

MrsRose said:


> The US of yesteryear is a very different US than that of today. I think, in general, that the attitude of distaste of many countries towards the US is more toward the people today, and not the country in history. There is no doubt is was a great and honorable thing for the US to have stepped in against Germany and the other villains of the Holocaust. But both the US and Germany are very different countries today than they were then. In fact, many young people in the US today don't even know what the holocaust was, or who Hitler is. There are actually a lot of people in the US that seriously believe that the Holocaust never even happened!
> 
> And today, it seems the US is only interested in aiding countries where they have something to gain by aiding them.
> 
> You will find ignorance in the people of every nation in the world to some degree. And you find greater hostility toward Americans in countries other than NZ.
> 
> The US is, in many ways, a great nation. But it's got it's own problems too.
> There are many friendly, caring, humble people in the US. And there are many unfriendly, arrogant, and uncaring people in the Us as well. But that can probably be said of any nation in the world.


I was almost literally speechless. This forum is very good about not censoring legitimate postings, and thank goodness. You seem to have some other problems which are causing you to exaggerate certain things about the U.S. To claim that even a very, very, very small portion of the young people in the U.S. don't know about Hitler or the Holocaust is very misleading. You do know that the two things you spoke of are actually required for middle school history do you not? My children went to a Montessori school in Europe and we were terrified by the rumors of the U.S. educational system. I almost died when my 8 year old began counting her fireworks stash in Spanish and Chinese! 
I have never met anyone who has met anyone that denies the Holocaust. 
My wife and I are both professionals (engineer and chemist) and have both been offered positions in NZ and we look forward to spending a few years there before heading back to Seattle, but we are not going there to escape some misconstrued vision of the U.S.
Also, the story about your father or father-in-law waiting 5 years for back surgery is an exaggeration at best. Why do Saudi Princes and the rich from Canada come to the States for medical care? Also, a bum could literally walk into a hospital and get any surgery needed. You neglect to tell these people that it is indeed a law that a hospital cannot deny emergency care. If you cannot walk or take care of yourself because you have a bad back, that is an emergency. You also forget to tell them about MediCare, MediCaide, and the state funded welfare care.


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## USAGary

topcat83 said:


> There's a 'Flying Burrito Brothers'...


 Damn American Culture Invasion Again! 

OMG I was checking out the prices at that place and they can't be compared to fast food joynts like Taco Bell etc. You can get 10 Taco Bell Tacos







<--- Taco Bell
for the price of one at FBB.  Looks extremely good though.







<--- Flying Burrito Brothers

There's a place for every kind of eatery usually but I wouldn't call that place fast food, more a sit-down restaurant and I'll save up some cash to check them out in Wellington. 









As you might guess, I love Mexican food. My favorite AUTHENTIC Mexican sit-down restaurant (meaning Mexican owned, operated, and the menu is all Mexican) in the States is Nuevo Leon.







<---Nuevo Leon


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## MrsRose

isellpower said:


> I was almost literally speechless. This forum is very good about not censoring legitimate postings, and thank goodness. You seem to have some other problems which are causing you to exaggerate certain things about the U.S. To claim that even a very, very, very small portion of the young people in the U.S. don't know about Hitler or the Holocaust is very misleading. You do know that the two things you spoke of are actually required for middle school history do you not? My children went to a Montessori school in Europe and we were terrified by the rumors of the U.S. educational system. I almost died when my 8 year old began counting her fireworks stash in Spanish and Chinese!
> I have never met anyone who has met anyone that denies the Holocaust.
> My wife and I are both professionals (engineer and chemist) and have both been offered positions in NZ and we look forward to spending a few years there before heading back to Seattle, but we are not going there to escape some misconstrued vision of the U.S.
> Also, the story about your father or father-in-law waiting 5 years for back surgery is an exaggeration at best. Why do Saudi Princes and the rich from Canada come to the States for medical care? Also, a bum could literally walk into a hospital and get any surgery needed. You neglect to tell these people that it is indeed a law that a hospital cannot deny emergency care. If you cannot walk or take care of yourself because you have a bad back, that is an emergency. You also forget to tell them about MediCare, MediCaide, and the state funded welfare care.


My intentions were in no way to give a "biased" view of the US. I think I've been good in my postings about stating both good and bad aspects of life in the US. I was born here, raised here, and and I enjoy living here. I've had no personal experiences myself that make me dislike the US. And you're making quite a lot of assumptions regarding our reasons for leaving. 

My reference to young people not knowing what the holocaust is or who Hitler is is not one of hearsay, and not in the least bit misleading. Had I said that the majority of American children did not know about these things, that would have been misleading.

My husband and I have worked with middle school aged youth for over 6 years, and there are in fact some children who do not know about these very significant parts of world history. I am well aware of the curriculum in US schools. Whether they simply do not pay attention, or enough attention is not paid to educating children on these topics is to be determined. I have also in real experience met (on more than one occasion) adults who believe that the Holocaust never happened, and that it's all some great big conspiracy or something. This is not fiction. It's not misleading information. It's truth. Very sad truth. But it is only true of some, and not many. It's just really sad that something that is so significant a part of world history is forgotten, or willingly disregarded by _anyone._

I'm typically not combative in these forums. It's all about diversity in views, opinions, and experiences. But it's incredibly audacious, and dare I say arrogant, of you to dismiss my family's personal experience as an exaggeration. My father is actually _still _waiting for back surgery. going on six years now. 
Saudi Princes are Saudi Princes. They can afford back surgery is they need it. If my father were a Saudi Prince, he'd have paid out of pocket for his surgery when first he needed it. And I'm sorry, but a homeless person would be entitled to emergency care, and nothing more...he could not walk into an OR and demand back surgery without the ability to pay or provide proof of insurance. Back surgery is not considered emergency care. Emergency care is that which is life threatening. Pain and inability to work due to a back injury are not considered life threatening. Therefore, for those of us without a sovereign title, good insurance, or an overflowing bank account, we are at the mercy of programs like MediCare, Medicaid, and welfare...hence the long wait. 

the point of my last point was not so that I would have to defend my personal life and experiences to someone I've never met. It was simply to state that the US is not as bad as some people believe...and not the philanthropic paradise that others believe it is either.


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## USAGary

MrsRose said:


> My intentions were in no way to give a "biased" view of the US...


 Well you have but you are what you write here.



MrsRose said:


> My reference to young people not knowing what the holocaust is or who Hitler is is not one of hearsay, and not in the least bit misleading. Had I said that the majority of American children...


 You said "many young people" and "a lot of people" which is misleading IMO. I've never met even one and I have traveled extensively. Perhaps if you provide some neutral substantiation to your statements?



MrsRose said:


> My father is actually _still _waiting for back surgery... not considered life threatening. Therefore, for those of us without a sovereign title, good insurance, or an overflowing bank account, we are at the mercy of programs like MediCare, Medicaid, and welfare...hence the long wait.


 What is your father waiting for and I hope he aggressively gets it. 



MrsRose said:


> ...the US is not as bad as some people believe...and not the philanthropic paradise that others believe it is either.


 Definitely not either one of those. Sad that one party has to always fight the same other party which wants to chop away everything the disadvantaged get in the USA. I hope that is not something to expect in NZ.


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## USAGary

"moving to New Zealand from USA...what to expect?"

Taco - Pizza - Fried Chicken party at my house on Foxton Beach. Details forthcoming!


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## MrsRose

isn't even a handful of young people in the US not knowing about something as significant as the Holocaust "too many"? I think it's unacceptable that anyone in the US (or the world for that matter) should be asked, "Who was Hitler?" and not know the answer to that question. 
As I said, we've worked with middle school kids for 6 years. The knowledge that some of them don't know these things came through individual conversations with them. Unless you walk around quizzing people on history during your travels, I don't see how extensive traveling would bring you to such conversations and revelations. 

I'm not sure what you mean by asking what my father is waiting for. He needs back surgery. He can't afford it. Therefore he must wait for the aid and approval of the insurance companies involved before he can get it. He's applied for government assistance and been denied thus far. He is applying once again. I'm not exaggerating when I say that he has paid a lot of money into a system that has done very little in return for him. I'm not exaggerating regarding his waiting period. His situation is not typical, but not uncommon. There is excellent healthcare available in the US. But the system is not perfect. Some people benefit greatly from it. Others don't. Is that a biased view? If so, then "you are what you write" I guess.


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## USAGary

MrsRose said:


> isn't even a handful of young people ... "too many"?


 No. You said "many young people" and "a lot of people" which was misleading.



MrsRose said:


> I'm not sure what you mean by asking what my father is waiting for. He needs back surgery. He can't afford it. Therefore he must wait for the aid and approval of the insurance companies involved before he can get it.


 Well we all have to wait for elective surgery when we don't qualify for government assistance in the USA. The Affordable Care Act which became law in 2009 helps alot, despite conservatives and their pals the insurance companies trying everything in the book to stop it. Like I said I hope he gets what he needs and aggressively seeks it.

:focus:

When moving to NZ from the USA expect a lot less people fighting over a lot less money.

:clap2:


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## MrsRose

USAGary said:


> No. You said "many young people" and "a lot of people" which was misleading.



I can see how the wording can be misleading. But what I meant was not "too many" in the sense of quantities of individuals, but to express that that kind of lack of knowledge and/or ignorance does exist. And for something so tragic and significant as the Holocaust, even one person not knowing is one too many. And it astounded me in my time working with youth to learn that not just one or two, but several children over the years admitted to not knowing such things. 
Look up "Holocaust Denial." It's out there. It's sad, but true. 

:focus:

"I was offered a job in NZ, but I've got to tell you I have some reservations after reading about the ignorance and blatant jealously of its people."

My point in all of this was originally just to point out that there are ignorant people in _every_ country.


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## MrsRose

New Zealand + USA = 

:grouphug:


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## topcat83

MrsRose said:


> New Zealand + USA =
> 
> :grouphug:


Lol! 

All the young people in my office have never heard of Andy Williams or Perry Como - now that's a bit of history that definitely shouldn't be forgotten


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## carosapien

topcat83 said:


> Lol!
> 
> All the young people in my office have never heard of Andy Williams or Perry Como - now that's a bit of history that definitely shouldn't be forgotten


Who?


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