# UK Ancestry Refused appeal or re apply? YMS?



## Lewman (Jul 31, 2014)

Hi There, 
I had applied for the UK ancestry visa in early July and they responded with a Refusal of Entry Clearance. This was due to submitting the short form birth certificates for myself and my father. Stupid! SO I am left with the dilemma of appealing faxing in the appeal with the 2 long form birth certificates and waiting to hear or reapplying or applying under the tier 5 youth mobility scheme. 

The Decision
*"You have applied for entry clearance under the UL ancestry category and I acknowledge that you have provided a miniature version of your birth certificate however this document does not state the names and details of your parents. I acknowledge that you have included an original miniature version of your fathers birth certificate however your birth certificates and his do not show complete family details and therefore you have not confirmed family relationship. 

I am therefore not satisfied that you have provided sufficient evidence that one of your grandparents was born in the United Kingdom and Islands and that such grandparent is your blood grandparent or grandparent by reason of an adoption. I am not satisfied that you meet the requirements of [paragraph 186 of the UK Immigration rules."*

It did mention in my right of appeal section that it may be possible to resolve the points at issue without an appeal hearing. 

I have no idea how long appeals take and right now I have a flight booked for Aug 27th and a job offer starting Sept 1st! So very stressed right now. I am tempted to apply for the Youth movement scheme as the documentation required is extremely limited and I have it all currently. I would then apply for the Ancestry Visa or something to that degree. I have a common-law partner who I have been with for 6 years that is a UK national so perhaps once I get to the UK with that visa I can then apply for something more long-term. I cannot find any information about appeals and how long they would take with something as simple as sending them 2x birth certificates. I assume that was their only issue. Would they need me to send back my passport if they decided it was approved? That would take weeks one would think??

Any help would be appreciated. 

Cheers,

LEwis


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

I can't see you have any ground for an appeal, as you sent in inadequate documentation and were correctly turned down. I think you should cut your losses and just reapply with long-form birth certificates. If you don't have them and it will take a while to get them, you can apply for Tier 5 YMS instead, and you can switch to leave to remain as unmarried partner, provided you meet the financial requirement.
Pity they just rejected your application instead of allowing you to send in correct documents.


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## Lewman (Jul 31, 2014)

I was very surprised I was not contacted and asked to send in other birth certificates. 

I see the argument that I simply did not supply the correct documentation but they were birth certificates we just happen to have 2 versions hwell: and I used the one which didn't contain birth parent information. 

Am I able to re apply right away or do I have to wait? Ideally I would prefer to get the UK ancestry visa as it lasts for 5 years. They of course have ALL my certified copies of everything still so I will have to get all new copies :eek2: 

Does everyone send in certified copies or is making your own copies sufficient I have heard some both ways.. After this Visa was rejected I'm also left wondering if there would be anything else that was wrong or this was the only issue preventing them from issuing me a Visa. I am paranoid that if I submit it again something else will be wrong. I do have a job lined up however.....


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## _shel (Mar 2, 2014)

If there was anything more they would have said so. The birth certificates are an essential part of this visa given you are only eligible if you have British ancestry, dont prove the family ancestry = not entitled to visa. 

You can apply immediately, no need to wait.


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## Lewman (Jul 31, 2014)

I just got off the phone with the Tribunal customer inquiry and they only gave me a number further down the line to ask more people that can't actually give me an answer. 

So it would be safe to assume that all things unchanged if I re submitted the application with the correct long-form birth certificates it would be approved?

I have my long-form birth certificate but my dads is an official photostatic copy he used when he applied for his british passport. It is the long form but I am not sure if these official copies are okay or not? I assume it would be as he used it to apply for his UK passport with it.


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## _shel (Mar 2, 2014)

official copy from where? Who issued it? But if he applied for his passport with it it should be fine.


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## Lewman (Jul 31, 2014)

He has had it for a while it was issued by the Ontario government as an official copy. I can likely get this application off and hope for an appointment early next week. I want to make my flight on the 26th of august so I can keep the sweet job I landed in the UK. If not who knows if the will let me delay my start date for a few weeks.... 

The consensus on funds it seems after researching this website is ~$3000CAD. I have around $15,000 with some credit card outstanding balance and line of credit balance. Do they look at your credit card owing or LOC owing? I would still have more than $3000. To make things easier my dad said he an provide me whatever funds I need to get a visa. Should i just get him to write a letter stating he will support me if need be? I also have a letter from my girlfriends parents saying I can stay there rent free for however long I choose. 

I could still however go with Joppas advice and get the YMS and look at converting it later but potentially having to leave my job to apply out of the UK could potentially be a headache. I have also been with my partner for over 6 years and might get married in a year or two who knows! Ive been told to keep that part out of the YMS application though!


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

You can switch from YMS to spouse/partner in UK, provided you do so before your Tier 5 expires.
Official copy of birth certificate should be fine. You can ask NY consulate to return all your documents, which can take a couple of weeks.


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## Lewman (Jul 31, 2014)

Ok awesome help. You guys need a donate button on your names I am getting more clarity here then anywhere I have looked appreciate the help. 

I don't really have the time to wait for document return from NY as I really need to have a Visa before I leave on Aug 26th. 

This YMS Visa seems pretty straight forward. I have heard that being in a relationship could affect this? I have been with my UK girlfriend for 6 years and we will be moving over there to her parents place whilst we look for a flat. I don;t know if they will have an issue with that or if i should just not mention our relationship? I imagine applying for the spousal visa whilst there is a lot let stressful as it just processes while you are living there?


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## _shel (Mar 2, 2014)

No, it could effect getting a tourist visa due to risk of overstaying, working etc, not a YMS so long as you meet the requirements. 

If you are asked on the forms or by an immigration officer you to answer truthfully. If you are not asked there is no need to divulge the information. 

Spouse visa somewhat less stressful but only because you can combine your income to meet the financial requirement instead of relying only on your partners income because you have permission to work in the UK.


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## Lewman (Jul 31, 2014)

With my current job offer which I have accepted I will have a base of 30k gpb +commission and my gf has a job 28k gpb that she will also be starting immediately so I guess that wont be too much of an issue. 

I could even see an ancestry visa working at a later date if I took a 3-4 week holiday and applied as soon as I came back it could technically process in time.


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## Lewman (Jul 31, 2014)

My income will be 30k GPB + commission and girlfriends 28K so that should help. 

The spousal visa seems like a great option. What about applying for a UK ancestry visa whilst on the YMS. If I were to go to France to make that application or back to Canada while on a holiday?


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

You can only apply from Canada, and since you have to submit your passport, you cannot leave till it's processed.


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## Lewman (Jul 31, 2014)

Ahh I see. While I guess the spousal route is quite a lot better while on a YMS. We have been living together for 6 years also so i could almost apply once we are settled there instead of waiting until year 2


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## nyclon (Apr 3, 2011)

Lewman said:


> My income will be 30k GPB + commission and girlfriends 28K so that should help.
> 
> The spousal visa seems like a great option. What about applying for a UK ancestry visa whilst on the YMS. If I were to go to France to make that application or back to Canada while on a holiday?


You can only apply for an ancestry visa from your home country or a country where you have a long term visa-other than the UK.


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## Lewman (Jul 31, 2014)

OK Great, it looks like I will be going for the YMS and then trying to convert it to a spousal.partner visa once I am there and setup. 

Thanks to you guys for all of your help.. another application here we come...


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## Lewman (Jul 31, 2014)

One more quick question in regards to converting YMS --> Unmarried partner/spousal visa


We have beeen living together in Canada for the past 4 years and will be living together in the UK during the YMS. At what point could I/should I apply for the Unmarried partner/spousal Visa? Can I use evidence of us living together in Canada to support that application?

Thanks!


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Yes, any continuous period of cohabitation over 2 years, in Canada, UK or combined.


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## Lewman (Jul 31, 2014)

OK that sounds good. I was only worried that they may have a problem with me coming with a unmarried partner even though shes from the UK. They may deem my intention is to stay and get a unmarried partner visa. 

I have been given the option by work to delay my start date to mid sept if I can get my ancestry visa before then... I may still try and get that off tues/wednesday and hopefully it would be approved and back to be by then...


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

The only rule for YMS is you don't have a dependent child or children.


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## Sperry (Aug 3, 2014)

Hi all, hoping to get some advice here as I am in a very similar situation to OP. My ancestry visa was declined for the same reason, and I faxed in the paperwork with the appropriate long form birth certificates for appeal. Upon looking into things a little further it seems the appeals process can take quite a long time (6 months or so), and I have a flight booked in early September. I decided to apply for the youth mobility visa as this may get here in time. 
My question is about my pending appeal- should I write them and cancel it, or can I wait and see what happens with that? I would rather enter the UK with an Ancestry visa if possible but I highly doubt it will make it through the appeals process in time. Is it at all possible to enter the UK under a youth mobility visa and later switch to the UK ancestry visa if the appeal (and application) are eventually approved? Thanks!


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## Lewman (Jul 31, 2014)

I was in your same situation debating whether to appeal or not but decided against it as it would take to long. I am just simply re -applying for the ancestry visa with the correct long-form birth certificates instead of going for the YMS. They have the same processing time in theory so you might as well go for the one you really want. I don't know in your situation what to do since you have already filed the appeal I would probably try and contact New York and see what you can find out. if you have a case # you can probably contact the justice department in the UK


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Your appeal can still be pending when you apply for another visa or when you arrive in UK with a new visa.


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## Sperry (Aug 3, 2014)

Thanks all! Lewman, did you apply for the ancestry visa again then? Hope it works out for you! 
Most of my documents were kept by New York, so I no longer have all the necessary documents to redo the Ancestry Visa application. I have tried calling New York but it seems impossible to talk to anyone. The tribunal can't speak about anything as they haven't gotten to my appeal yet. I think given where they were at in the processing last week I might hear from them this week. If I cancel asap though, I might not get charged for the appeal.


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## Lewman (Jul 31, 2014)

I have the interview on wednesday so the documents will go back to New York again hopefully this time its all good! New York also kept all my documents so I had to get them all compiled(quickly) again. My grandpa couriered out his birth certs and marriage certs and my dad did as well. I got certified copies made of all of them 2x in case anything else happens I don't want to get stuck without the documents again. 

If i were you I would just send it all again either ancestry or YMS. I guess you could provide some info in the notes or on a cover letter explaining your situation. The reason why I didnt go YMS even though I could do it slightly sooner was that it is just delaying a pain later. I have a job and in 2 years I am going to be stressing over a spousal visa and will be forking over 1000 pounds to get it. I may have to delay my flight at the very end of August but the $300 is no biggie if I am worry free for 5 years.


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## Lewman (Jul 31, 2014)

As an update I ending up submitting another entire application. Nothing changed doc wise except I submitted notarized copies of dads long form birth cert and my long form birth cert.

Aug 6th - Meeting Wednesday Docs sent via courier
Aug 8th - Notice from New York docs received
Aug 23 - Email stating visa has been issued ( Saturday weird?)

Big shout out to Joppa and Nyclon! Your help has been invaluable in getting this in on time. I can now start my job Sept 1st and have relieved my stress. Bar tonight cheers to you! (you need a donate button)


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