# Please Help Regarding Spouse Visa Refusal appeal



## PhoenixMD (Aug 29, 2014)

Hi,
I have today found out that my wife's application for Spouse settlement visa has been refused.
I am currently in Thailand but in a week's time will be heading back to the UK. I was more than sure that we have all the evidence and documents provided.
However, after reading the grounds of refusal which was being listed in the refusal letter, I am furious and frustrated and also gutted to see how ECOs take the applications so lightly and how easily they make enormous errors in even the most basic ways and fail to even observe and check the crucial supporting documents and evidence completely and jump to refusing the case before even double checking everything, causing enormous amount of stress, as well as wasting our time and our money.
Sorry for the rant, I am going to explain my point now.
I have submitted my bank statements to fulfill the financial requirements, as well as my wife's savings. I will attach the refusal letter, the part that explains I have not met the financial threshold:








First of all, the statement on my account that I have provided, on my bigger one of the two, was clearly from 1st feb 2014 until 22nd Sep 2014. Also it clearly shows on the page that it is "page 1 of 3" which means there will be 2 more pages, also at the bottom shows "continued on reverse....". This is the document, it had more transactions on reverse, and there was a second paper with the third page of transactions on it, both together in the same partition of the folder. To me it seems the ECO did not even bother taking it out of the folder and having a look at it before concluding it as insufficient evidence:








Also this is my ISA statement that clearly dates from 19th June 2013 till 31st July 2014. The statement is sent out on a yearly basis, so this was what the bank provided me with in September 2014. The date was also mentioned wrongly on the refusal letter.








Also regarding the declaration of the origins of the funds, I have filled the APPENDIX 2 form completely, where it asks for "Source of funds" and put all the relevant information about the origins of the savings.
I am forced to make an appeal and go through a few more months of agonizing waiting period and spend additional time and money on this, not even sure if the appeal will be in my favour.
Any sort of information or tip regarding making an appeal case and additional information and providing evidence in support of my application is appreciated.
As I mentined, I am travelling back to the UK on 15th December, but until then I will be spending time filling the appeal form and gathering more evidence and information.
Also I would like to know if it is a good idea to send the appeal from Thailand to the Tribunal in the UK, or can I take the documents with myself and post it once I am in the UK?
Also, would anyone know of the costs of the appeal?
And at last, would you suggest an "Oral Hearing" or a "Paper Hearing"? As I can attend the "Oral Hearing" myself representing my wife.
thank you so much in advance.


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## AmyD (Jan 12, 2013)

The amounts do not equal £62,500.


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## PhoenixMD (Aug 29, 2014)

They do when you consider my wife's savings as well, which is mentioned in the second part of the refusal letter.
681,932.74 Thai bahts in her saving account which equals 13,159.60 British pounds at the date's bank exchange rate of 51.82 Thai bahts for 1 British pound. 
My biggest account amount and her biggest account amount ALONE make for over £68,000.00 on their own during the past 6 months, even when you discard the other 2 accounts mentioned.


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## nyclon (Apr 3, 2011)

PhoenixMD said:


> They do when you consider my wife's savings as well, which is mentioned in the second part of the refusal letter. 681,932.74 Thai bahts in her saving account which equals 13,159.60 British pounds at the date's bank exchange rate of 51.82 Thai bahts for 1 British pound. My biggest account amount and her biggest account amount ALONE make for over £68,000.00 on their own during the past 6 months, even when you discard the other 2 accounts mentioned.


But they will take the lowest balance not highest balance.


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## PhoenixMD (Aug 29, 2014)

nyclon said:


> But they will take the lowest balance not highest balance.


True.
We submitted 4 different bank accounts to support our financial requirements.
One that was my current account was over £55,000.00 at its lowest amount in the past 6 months.
One was my cash ISA that began in 2013 at £5,760. I still have the original amount plus the interest, as shown in picture, to date.
My wife submitted her saving account, with an amount of 681,932.74 THB (equals to£13,159.60) as the lowest amount in the past 6 months.
My wife also submitted info on her current account which was 1961.05 THB ( equals to £37.22) at its lowest amount during the past 6 months.
I should have been more clear as the refusal letter's format is confusing.


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## Lorelli (Jan 6, 2012)

A few thoughts: Did you provide a breakdown of your combined savings demonstrating that you exceed the financial threshold? For example: 

_"We meet the maintenance requirement via the following combined savings, held in excess of 6 months:
Sponsor's Santander account 1: £55,572.60 
Sponsor's Santander account 2: £5,760.00 
Applicant's SCB certificate: £13,159.00***
Applicant's Bangkok Bank account: £37.22

Total held over 6 months: £74528.82"_

***Was the SCB certificate in statement format, showing movement (or lack of) within the account over the 6 month period, or did it simply show the balance at the end of it and when it was created? The ECO needs to assess the lowest amount within that period. If the ECO cannot determine what the lowest amount held was, I imagine the balance could be discounted from the subsequent calculation. If that were the case, your wife's application would fall short of the financial requirement. 

Were you specific about the source of your savings in Appendix 2? For example, from sale of a house, or from employment earnings over time etc.? 

Did your wide submit her own declaration of where her savings originate?


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## PhoenixMD (Aug 29, 2014)

I have provided a total breakdown of funds over 6 months, yes.
Also in APPENDIX 2, there is a section where we entered our savings details, and there was a part asking for "Source of funds" which we mentioned the source, for example, saved from salary, or simply gifted from family member. So we covered that part pretty much in there.
We did not provide a separate declaration of the origins of the funds as we mentioned it already in APPENDIX 2 form, and even mentioned in the ADDITIONAL INFORMATION section at the end of the form as we needed extra space to cover our accounts.
Also we provided full bank statements with transactions breakdown for at least 7 months prior to the date to cover any overlaps as well, so I am sure that the details was completely visible and provided.
My gripe with the ECO is how they got the DATEs on my statements totally wrong, and also it seems like they did not even take my statement out to take a look at it, and by doing so, they missed the information on reverse and on the second page of my statement.
The lowest amount of money in my current account was actually somewhere around £55,470 range, if they looked at the transactions breakdown over the past 7 months i have provided, but the amount written in the refusal letter shows me that they did not look any further than the front page, which clearly says "page 1 of 3" and they determined the lowest amount based on that page alone. also the wrong dates mentioned in the refusal letter supports my suspicions.


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## Sandraw719 (Jul 19, 2013)

It looks they mainly are not happy with the sources of the funds.You cannot just say it is the gift from the family. The family should have a formal document saying it is a gift,not a loan. If it is from the job in the past,you should have letter from your old employee to prove that. The best I suggest is to prepare the powerful documents and apply again.

One woman was refused a visitor visa because she has no job. Even her father paid all the trip,the visa officer is not happy with this!


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## Crawford (Jan 23, 2011)

Personally, to make my application as clean as possible and to ensure that I met the financial requirements, instead of presenting 4 different bank/savings accounts, together with multiple pages to read, and which covered different time periods and different currencies, I would have amalgamated all the necessary accounts into one (preferably in GBP) prior to my making the application.

I find your evidence extremely difficult to understand, and expecting an ECO to decipher it all - are they expected to do the necessary exchange rate into GBP as well? - is unrealistic I think. 

If I find your financials difficult to understand, and you are getting a lot of questions from the forum as to your situation, it is not unreasonable to expect an ECO to have problems with it too.


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## nyclon (Apr 3, 2011)

When did you apply and what were the dates of your documents?


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## PhoenixMD (Aug 29, 2014)

Crawford said:


> Personally, to make my application as clean as possible and to ensure that I met the financial requirements, instead of presenting 4 different bank/savings accounts, together with multiple pages to read, and which covered different time periods and different currencies, I would have amalgamated all the necessary accounts into one (preferably in GBP) prior to my making the application.
> 
> I find your evidence extremely difficult to understand, and expecting an ECO to decipher it all - are they expected to do the necessary exchange rate into GBP as well? - is unrealistic I think.
> 
> If I find your financials difficult to understand, and you are getting a lot of questions from the forum as to your situation, it is not unreasonable to expect an ECO to have problems with it too.


I have provided bank details and statements of the 4 accounts that me and my wife hold and save money in. I don't understand how is that confusing, where all the dates are mentioned with the breakdown of every transactions made during the past 6-7 months.
The part that is difficult to understand is the way that refusal letter is put together, with wrong dates and wrong amounts mentioned in it, showing the lack of attention to my statements provided.
My bank statements, which were part of the evidence to prove my financial requirements, were in simple format and clear English, easy to understand and read for anybody, let alone an ECO that their job requires great accuracy at observing and evaluating the evidence.
Also as declaring the origins of the funds, I am definitely scared in that department, but I have provided details in APPENDIX 2, question 3.75, as required. So I have provided one form of declaration of the origins of the funds.
Do I have no grounds to appeal against the decision? Even if I provide more details upon the origins of the funds in our accounts?


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## PhoenixMD (Aug 29, 2014)

nyclon said:


> When did you apply and what were the dates of your documents?


We applied on 15th October 2014.
As for our document dates, I presume you mean the dates on our bank statements and which period they covered.
As in the picture, my main account statement covered from 1st Feb 2014 to 22nd Sep 2014. (The dates of this statement was wrongly written in the refusal letter)
My cash ISA dates were from 19th June 2013 to 31st July 2014. (The ISA statements are yearly, therefore that was the most up to date statement I could acquire from my bank.)
My wife's main saving account with the larger sum, had statements covering the period of 11th January 2014 to 8th October 2014.
The wife's smaller account statements were covering 1st April 2014 until 1st October 2014.
The refusal letter date and the day that the decision has been made is 4th December 2014.


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## Crawford (Jan 23, 2011)

Here is my understanding of the refusal letter,* based on the rules that a minimum of 62,500 GBP must have been in the control of the sponsor for a minimum of six months*:

- the one Santander savings account had the lowest balance of 56,075.81 in the six months prior to the application

- the second Santander savings Account had the lowest balance of 5,760.00 in the six months prior to the application

These together means that *at a time in the 6 months prior to the application* the savings amounted to 61,815.81

The bank account held a balance of 37.22 - this again does not take the *minimum balance* held for 6 months to 62,500.00 GBP

The SCB certificate (what is this? shares/stock/broker account - not CASH as generally understood) has not been taken into consideration - probably due to the fact that the amount fluctuates due to stock market changes?


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## PhoenixMD (Aug 29, 2014)

Crawford said:


> The SCB certificate (what is this? shares/stock/broker account - not CASH as generally understood) has not been taken into consideration - probably due to the fact that the amount fluctuates due to stock market changes?


SCB stands for Siam Commercial Bank, which is a major bank in Thailand. I don't know why the term "SCB Certificate" is used, as we provided both the account book and the statement we obtained from the bank itself, which has all the account information for the past 7 months of the account detailed in it. there is no reason for it to be excluded, whatsoever.


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## Crawford (Jan 23, 2011)

PhoenixMD said:


> SCB stands for Siam Commercial Bank, which is a major bank in Thailand. I don't know why the term "SCB Certificate" is used, as we provided both the account book and the statement we obtained from the bank itself, which has all the account information for the past 7 months of the account detailed in it. there is no reason for it to be excluded, whatsoever.


..... and what was the lowest amount held in this account during the 6 months to date of application?


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## PhoenixMD (Aug 29, 2014)

Crawford said:


> ..... and what was the lowest amount held in this account during the 6 months to date of application?


The lowest amount during the mentioned 6 months period that was held in the account was "681,932.74" Thai Bahts(THB). that is equivalent to "13,159.60" GBP.
The exchange rate was mentioned also in the refusal letter as of "1 GBP = 52.68 THB" based on the bank exchange rate.


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## Crawford (Jan 23, 2011)

PhoenixMD said:


> The lowest amount during the mentioned 6 months period that was held in the account was "681,932.74" Thai Bahts(THB). that is equivalent to "13,159.60" GBP.
> The exchange rate was mentioned also in the refusal letter as of "1 GBP = 52.68 THB" based on the bank exchange rate.



I think your problem is that you have not provided sufficient information as to the sources of these funds:-

"There is no declaration from your sponsor as to how these savings have been accumulated"


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## PhoenixMD (Aug 29, 2014)

Crawford said:


> I think your problem is that you have not provided sufficient information as to the sources of these funds:-
> 
> "There is no declaration from your sponsor as to how these savings have been accumulated"


I have filled the section for "source of funds" in question 3.75 on Appendix 2, regarding that.
Now my question is this: Do I have grounds for appeal, and provide more information for my source of funds alongside other evidence?
Obviously, the ECO made errors on the refusal letter and did get the dates on my statements wrong. So they made some big mistakes. Also the refusal letter format is extremely confusing.
I have definitely provided evidence that the funds have been held in my and my wife's posession for at least 6 months before the date of application. They mixed the dates up.
One of the reasons they have refused me was the lack of evidence that I held the funds for the past 6 months, cause of their own mix-up of my statement dates.


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## Lorelli (Jan 6, 2012)

Obviously you are upset, but a word of advice: when you do appeal or reapply, it would serve you best to drop frequent mentions of the failure of the ECO. Despite the discrepancies in the letter, it doesn't change the essentials of their refusal - that you/your wife have not convinced them that you meet the requirements. You don't seem to be taking on board that you probably needed to do more to convince them. 

You have already said that you have provided *one* form of declaration on the origins of the funds. I'll ask again, what about one from your wife? Remember, on appeal you cannot include new documents as proof. 

If your wife did not submit a declaration, or you didn't provide a trail for a financial gift (to use one of your earlier examples) these would be major oversights on your behalf. It's your job to convince the ECO, not for the ECO to find evidence where there is omission.

If you haven't omitted such evidence, of course you have ground for appeal.


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## PhoenixMD (Aug 29, 2014)

Lorelli said:


> Obviously you are upset, but a word of advice: when you do appeal or reapply, it would serve you best to drop frequent mentions of the failure of the ECO. Despite the discrepancies in the letter, it doesn't change the essentials of their refusal - that you/your wife have not convinced them that you meet the requirements. You don't seem to be taking on board that you probably needed to do more to convince them.
> 
> You have already said that you have provided *one* form of declaration on the origins of the funds. I'll ask again, what about one from your wife? Remember, on appeal you cannot include new documents as proof.
> 
> ...


Thank you for your reply. I just want to know if I have any chances if I want to go the appeal route.
I have mentioned I am certainly concerned about the declaration of the origins of the funds.
The only declaration of the origins of the funds I have provided evidence for, were on the Appendix 2 form in question 3.75, as mentioned before as well.
We included the details of our saving accounts, and included the "Origins of funds" for each seperate account.
Unfortunately I have not given full details of how much, when and how. Just mentioned my sister have gifted to me and savings from salary, as well as including all the contact details of my sister. Same goes for my wife, including the gift from mother and savings from salary. But no specific details.
However when I saw the refusal letter, it mentions that we have not provided ANY declarations of the origins of the funds, which is false.
So, I am upset, but would not want my emotions cloud my logic and judgement, that is why I am asking for help from wonderful people whom are spending their time to help me.
I have 2 questions, if someone could answer me with harsh cold logical point of view:
1) Would I have any grounds for appeal, based on the information I have provided, or would i fall short on the origins of funds argument, no matter what?
2) Can I make a fresh application (well, but I, I mean my wife) and submit my evidence again, PLUS detailed declaration of the origins of the funds? because in the refusal letter, under other categories that we needed to meet, it was marked as "MET"

And this last one is not related to the previous points, more for my own personal reasons: Can I make a formal complaint about the critical errors made in my refusal letter regarding the wrong dates on my statements being mentioned? Can I complain about the lack of attention the ECO shown regarding dealing with vital evidence?

Thank you once again for your time.


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## nyclon (Apr 3, 2011)

Lorelli has given some good advice. 

For gifts of cash they are looking for a letter from the giver declaring the money is a no strings attached gift which they do not expect to be returned. Additionally, they want to see the giver's bank statement showing the money leaving the account and your statement showing the money being deposited. They want to know that the gift doesn't wipe out the giver's account which would raise the possibility that it's a loan and not a gift. 

For savings from your salary you should provide a few examples of depositing the money into your account along with an explanation. 

Also keep in mind that financial documents can be no more than 28 days old at the time of application. Your ISA statement was 2 1/2 months old at application so may not have been considered at all. Yearly statements are fine but they have to cover the relavent period which is 6 months immediately prior to application. You needed to ask them for an interim statement. 

Yes you can make a fresh application.


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