# Going Self Employed!??



## Bradley.minns (Jan 16, 2014)

Hows it all!!!????
I hope you well, 

I have been here just over 2 years now and love it here.
TR on Life partner/Spousal visa with work endorsement.

I have been saving arse off and I am now going to open my own business!! WOOOP!!! Now, some you you will think the same as those ill advise "Immigration Practitioners" that I will have to put X amount of money in and I will have to comply with BEE and all that other rubbish *but* because I am currently on a Life partner visa *I DO NOT.*
I have the "right" to work and I have the right to go self employed.
(I'm already registered with sars etc..)

*I was wondering if anyones been through the same process yet as a TR on a spousal visa and applied for a new 3 year life partner/spousal visa with a self employed work permit!????*

I know I can do it, I have most of the (usual) forms I need, will obviously add the proof the company is registered when I have it and a business plan but any other info would be greatly appreciated!!!!

Thanks!

Brad:yo:


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## shumifan49 (Sep 18, 2013)

I think this is one of those cases where you will be well advised to contact an immigration lawyer (like LegalMan) for advice - note the word lawyer. They will be aware of exactly how the legislation stands, rather that just know how/which forms to complete, unlike immigration advisors. They could also advise you as the best way and style of company to register that will ease your application.


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## Bradley.minns (Jan 16, 2014)

shumifan49 said:


> I think this is one of those cases where you will be well advised to contact an immigration lawyer (like LegalMan) for advice - note the word lawyer. They will be aware of exactly how the legislation stands, rather that just know how/which forms to complete, unlike immigration advisors. They could also advise you as the best way and style of company to register that will ease your application.


Thank you for your reply, I did speak to an actual immigration lawyer last year and he told me its not an issue with the life partner/spousal visa as I have the "Right" to work. But He would charge something along the lines of R20,000 to do the application for me and I am not willing to pay that. I want to do it myself this time.

Any free info on what extra forms are needed will be greatly appreciated and if anyone has been through this process before I would love to know.

Kind regards,
Bradley


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## MissGlobal (Aug 4, 2012)

Hey - so when we opened my company ( I'm SA citizen, husband was on a TR ( spousal)), he could open a company with no issue. BEE isn't really a factor because you don't need to comply with it unless you want to bid on work and until you make a certain amount of money. Registering the company was no problem - opening a bank account in the company name where he was a signatory was where we hit a snag! Who would have thought LOL..... We had applied for a PR based on his TR at the time, but it wasn't awarded yet. I don't know if this is helpful or not....


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## Bradley.minns (Jan 16, 2014)

MissGlobal said:


> Hey - so when we opened my company ( I'm SA citizen, husband was on a TR ( spousal)), he could open a company with no issue. BEE isn't really a factor because you don't need to comply with it unless you want to bid on work and until you make a certain amount of money. Registering the company was no problem - opening a bank account in the company name where he was a signatory was where we hit a snag! Who would have thought LOL..... We had applied for a PR based on his TR at the time, but it wasn't awarded yet. I don't know if this is helpful or not....


Thank you very much Miss Global!:thumb:
So once you registered the company did you then apply for PR or another TR?

I'm applying for another TR life partner visa but with a self employed work permit.
Was there any additional paperwork you supplied with his application?

As far as I know its just proof the company exists and business plan along with the standard life partners paperwork??

Why did you have trouble at the bank? does your husband have a personal account already?

Thank you,
Brad


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## MissGlobal (Aug 4, 2012)

So here's the order with which we did things : 

A year ago - after my husband got his TR - he has a bank account with another bank . They gave it to him with TR on the understanding that he'd have to provide proof of permanent residency or it would lock down when his visa did.

We applied for his PR a month or so after he got his TR. His TR was spousal - no work endorsement since we own a company in the US and earn our money there.

We registered the company ( he was on TR - no work permit associated ) 

The company registration was fine, but the bank wouldn't set up a bank account because they wanted him to have a work permit or a business permit ( visa endorsement? )

But - and here's the kicker - They wouldn't let us open a bank account in our company name - but I could open a bank account for a sole proprietorship with the SAME name as my company LOL - as long as only my name was on the account. Which is what we are doing - until we head back to open an account now that he has PR. Talk about an administrative nightmare.

From what I gather - the personal account isn't the issue - it's the business accounts that were. They would let him have a personal one - but wanted the work permit / business permit for a business account. Who knows why SA banks do what they do LOL....


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## Bradley.minns (Jan 16, 2014)

Ok cool, that puts things in a little perspective for me, I wasn't planning on opening a business account as I'm setting up a small one man pool cleaning company so I will use my personal.

You have to LOL at the infrastructure here, I have no idea why you would ever leave America!? It's like my dream place! For now I'll just have to make it work here.

Thank you for the info and good luck!!!


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## MissGlobal (Aug 4, 2012)

I still don't understand why you can legally register a company without permanent residency but can't open a bank account....


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## MissGlobal (Aug 4, 2012)

Well Bradley, I have family here and I wanted to let my kid get a chance to know her grandparents. I also planned my transition to allow us to maintain our US income while we're here. I did the move with a return plan and budget in case it didn't work out - so this was a fairly low risk experiment. I also needed to do this when she was young - so I wouldn't be uprooting her from school / friends etc. I knew coming here I was going to have to weigh the effectiveness of infrastructure in the USA against the benefits of being near family and living a beach life here. It's funny you say you can't fathom why I left, I feel like on a daily basis - someone here in cape town asks me - why on earth would you leave the USA to come to SA when any sane person would kill to go the other way! I used to brush off those comments, but after the 30th - 40th time - it really does make you wonder 

Either way - we have another year and then we're headed back to the states. Turns out the infrastructure piece won at the end of the day....


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## shumifan49 (Sep 18, 2013)

> any sane person would kill to go the other way


I am totally sane and would NEVER want to live in the USA - I will not even comtemplate visiting the USA; it is bancrupt, with no plan on how to get out of debt, is being less and less popular all over the world because of its aggressive foreign policy and so the list goes on. So don't generalise.

As far as operating your own business without a work permit:
Unless they enforce the posession of the work permit on a self employed person or the owners of a compny, it would provide an easy way to circumvent the whole work permit system.


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## MissGlobal (Aug 4, 2012)

Honestly Shumi - I'm kind of getting tired of the dramatic responses. If you read my post you'd see that I say people say that to me all the time - " that what sane person would leave the US to come here". I'm not generalizing anything and I'm not making comparisons - I'm simply reiterating what people have said to me. Perhaps the problem is that you feel angry if someone says something negative about SA or you have issues with the USA - I honestly don't know. I'm not going to get into a comparison debate with you saying which country is better because it's pointless. I've always been very clear about the strengths and weaknesses of both countries from my own perspective. If you're going to challenge what I've said - the least you can do is quote me properly and not misconstrue my meaning.

Regarding the business owning - I understand why they want a permit - what I don't understand is why they let you register the company if you can't open a bank account. Wouldn't it be easier to prevent people from getting that far before they hit a stone wall?


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## Bradley.minns (Jan 16, 2014)

Now now kids, no point arguing semantics! lol

I frequent a lot of other forums and such which I wont mention here but put this way I am an Englishman that's never truly liked or felt like I belonged in England, I moved to South Africa for love and a better quality of life but I have been to and still love America. 
Most people would say I'm more patriotic than most Americans. I believe in the constitution 100% and believe that it really was set up to escape the tyranny of the English Empire at the time. Yes they are in a bad way but so are many other countries but that's only because of the fiat money system that is inevitably going to crash anyway which we as the public have let the banks and the governments bring in to play since the 1930's. 

But hey... That's just my opinion.
No chance i'd ever get into America anyway and to be honest these days the American government doesn't really like the gun toting patriot type! lol

So as I said before, I'll stay here and make a good life for myself here.
I cant circumvent the visa, its just not worth it same as it would be easy for me to not pay tax but unfortunately I have to if I ever want to finance a house here.

MissGlobal, I just hope setting up the company in my name is as easy as you say.
I am now registered with Cipro/CIPC so after I make a payment today I will be able to start the business reg process.

Iv'e heard I need to submit a business plan for a TR with a self employed work permit, anyone know how in-depth this actually needs to be? As the business is completely self funded I'm not having to write up some hectic one for finance from the bank..

Thank you all,


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## shumifan49 (Sep 18, 2013)

A few things I would consider when presenting the business plan that might help your application.
1.
Unemployment is a problem, especially in the less skilled groups. It might therefore be a good idea to include a projection of increased employment with the business growth.
2.
Try and do a projected growth, backed by some market research, that will show when the company will become profitable and a net tax contributor, as this will be important.
3. Cash flows are always important.
4. Include some details of marketing strategy; e.g. leaflets etc and costs and how it will be paid for initially.

I have not operated a business in RSA for a long time, so these are just observations. MissGlobal should be able to provide current practical advice much better.


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## JohnPier (Oct 3, 2012)

Woah, R20,000! That's expensive! I did this with lawyers (checked the firm) for much less. Anyway yes it's possible and I agree with Shufiman about the lawyer thing - almost got shafted by Intergate Immigration Agency and MissGlobal about the BEE thing - for big government contracts you need BEE, otherwise not necessary to get a good business going. In fact I think they call it BBEEE.


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## LegalMan (Dec 26, 2012)

Hi Bradley - what do you need to know? Others have referred to me to this thread, so here I am.


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## Bradley.minns (Jan 16, 2014)

@Shumifan49 Thanks for the info, I have the basics for the business plan. Once again just fishing for info.

@Johnpier, Funny you should say that.. I was shafted by Intergate. My visa was denied the day I left England after being told we submitted enough info and that we would get the visa. They then recommended I fly back to England to reapply when I had a lease agreement with my girlfriend. The work permit they done for me however did go smoothly.
I certainly would not use them again nor any other "agency"
LOL I certainly wont be looking for government contracts and until I net 1 million I have no need for BBBBBBBEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE. Thankfully! =)
Yes I did think 20k was too much but hey gave some sound advice to begin with.
I think I would rather do it myself but would be happy to pay a lawyer for their time to check my application before submitting plus I need 12 months contracts to be drafted for my company.

@Legalman, Thank you for your comment. I did try to contact you but where i am once again a new member i couldnt find a way. As you probably read I am a TR (life partner) with a work permit. I wish to reapply for another 3 year TR (life partner) with a self employed work permit.
I have been advised that I will need the normal docs.
Proof of relationship, offical docs which I hope I still have? affidavit, notarial. South African police check as I have been here 2 years?

Can you please confirm the following?
if I must get another chest scan?
What official docs I must submit?
Confirmation of business registry?
Must I submit a business plan?
is there anything else you think may help with my application?

Also do you know what the average time is for this kind of application at the moment?

Thank you all for your help thus far people!!! =)


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## LegalMan (Dec 26, 2012)

Hi Bradley

I think this website forum requires you to first make 5 posts before you can message others.

I'll get back to your other questions shortly.


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## LegalMan (Dec 26, 2012)

Bradley - There are 2 options available to you.

You can either submit a full application again or a short application with only a confirmation that the relationship still exists and your business endorsement documents. The difference between these 2 options is the processing time. If you submit the full application, it takes the normal 8 to 12 week processing time (that's how fast lawyers get it done). If you submit the short application then it takes at least 2 to 3 months longer than a normal application.

So it depends entirely on you.

With regards to the business endorsement: The documents submitted will depend on the type of business you will be running e.g.: CC or sole proprietorship.


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## Bradley.minns (Jan 16, 2014)

LegalMan said:


> Bradley - There are 2 options available to you.
> 
> You can either submit a full application again or a short application with only a confirmation that the relationship still exists and your business endorsement documents. The difference between these 2 options is the processing time. If you submit the full application, it takes the normal 8 to 12 week processing time (that's how fast lawyers get it done). If you submit the short application then it takes at least 2 to 3 months longer than a normal application.
> 
> ...


WOW one would think a short application would be quicker!
Thank you for your reply.
The business will be registered as a PTY LTD as you can no longer register as a CC and I will be operating under a business name, not my own.

I plan for the business to go live in July so will need the visa by then, guess it will have to be a full ap....

So if I submit a full ap again will I have to supply all the documents I questioned?

Out of interest how much would you charge to do this type of application?


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## LegalMan (Dec 26, 2012)

Apologies, Bradley, I cannot discuss pricing on this forum.


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## Bradley.minns (Jan 16, 2014)

LegalMan said:


> Apologies, Bradley, I cannot discuss pricing on this forum.


Legalman, Please email me if you can [email protected]
Would be good to hear about what you think regarding my current situation.
To add to one of your last comments you can no longer register a CC and I was told that for me to get the permit the company has to be registered? that puts sole proprietor out I believe?


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