# Why is living in NZ great/dreadful for you?



## Kiwiwannabe

After 5 years of planning we got our long awaited PR this week. I have been wanting this for a LONG time and was pretty sure a couple of times it wasn't going to happen.However, after reading though this forum I am now DEEPLY concerned that we could be making a bad move. I read bitter posts about anti Americanism, about very high prices, and aggrivation w/ the Kiwi government with regard to manipulating the truth in order to attract immigrants. Some posters seem to seeth with disillusionment. I do not want this to be me. So, to that end, I would like to know what is it (money, age, gender, spouse) that makes a happy transplant vs. a miserable one. 

THIS MY TAKE ON THE SITUATION

For our family, we understand that we will make less money and that money will not go as far. I understand that I will pay 50% more to rent for 1/2 the house I have now, meat is four times as much, and gas is three times as much. We understand that the weather is cooler and damper. We understand that people may not like us too. Not everyone likes me here either. My expectation is that my kids will be well educated in North Shore City. That all three (I've 2 teens and a tween) will be able to finish their degrees at Uni at a price I can afford ($54,000 NZ vs.$216,000US(that's the minimum) ). My expectation is that I will feel safer and be safer in my house and on the streets. I also understand that life guarantees me nothing. My expectation is that we will have some small retirement at 65 vs in the US where there will be none for us even though we pay into it. I expect a higher level of ethics from the government here, but maybe not in customs anymore. I expect fewer chemicals in my food and water (I also expect to wear sunscreen). I expect it to be beautiful but not everywhere and not all the time. I expect to be homesick but luckily I going with my best friends, my husband and three young adult children. And I expect my family will, even if we fail fabulously, be glad we gave it a go.

So, be brutal with me. Where does the whole thing fall apart? What ruined it for you? Or what made it worth it for you? In hindsight, would you do it again? Would you change anything? In your opinion, what is THE ONE MOST CRUCIAL ELEMENT in success in immigrating to NZ?

Thanks


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## jenswaters

Kiwiwannabe said:


> After 5 years of planning we got our long awaited PR this week. I have been wanting this for a LONG time and was pretty sure a couple of times it wasn't going to happen.However, after reading though this forum I am now DEEPLY concerned that we could be making a bad move. Thanks


Oh this was sooooooooooooooooooooo me too!!! We had everything pulled together, tickets booked, everything shipped, and then I started seeing an outpouring of negative posts about life in NZ. Panic is a GREAT word to describe it. 

I am English, not American, so cannot comment on "anti-americanism", although I have seen evidence of generic opinions of groups of people in EVERY country. I think that this opinion-forming of a group of people is widespread in any country, and don't find it fair that people say it is unique to any specific group of people in any specific country. However, Kiwi's are pretty "humble" (not the right word, but can't think of the correct one right now)...they do not brag about contacts, qualifications, experience etc etc, so you really need to be mindful of that. We are not that kind of people, but just responding to questions about where we have lived and what we have done needed to played down to almost insignificance in order to not be seen as boastful.

Other than this, you have a VERY realistic expectation. If anything, you are over-estimating the possible negatives (in my opinion). You know money doesn't go as far, you know that everything costs more in relation to your US experiences, and you feel you are coming for life quality as opposed to materialistic motives. Personally, I think you are making the right move...you wouldn't have made it this far in 5 years if not! Besides, it is TOTALLY normal to feel fear and nerves before such a big move that you have been aiming for for so long. 

Take a shot...it is worth it. Keep in mind the reasons for your decisions to try and move out here so long ago...if you find that this isn't happening for you, the US still exists, so you can go back (although not as simple as it sounds, I know)!

Be open-minded, positive, and willing to try different things. And try to avoid too many comparisons to "home", as this just makes it harder.

Good luck...I don't regret my decision one bit. If anything, I wonder why I hadn't done this years ago!


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## Kiwiwannabe

*Thanks for your input*

Thank you. Your reply was good to hear. We actually are making a "just in case escape plan" for back to the US (Difficult situations are more easily born when one isn't trapped). And our family will be working on that no brag/ tall poppy dilemma before we go. We need to. We're Texans and as you may know everything is bigger here  Seriously though, I was at ease in my skin when I was in NZ. It felt like home. My scariest thought is that when I go back to live it somehow won't feel like that anymore. Thanks for letting me know you had panic too. Expatriating is rare here so there is no one to talk to about what to expect. It's is like getting married. You can only be so sure and then it's a leap of faith.


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## topcat83

Kiwiwannabe said:


> .... It's is like getting married. You can only be so sure and then it's a leap of faith.


Fortunately it is like getting married, and not like having a baby. Although a last resort, you can get a divorce if it really doesn't work. But you can't stop being a parent! So far the marriage is working for us!


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## alansheffield

Kiwiwannabe said:


> After 5 years of planning we got our long awaited PR this week. I have been wanting this for a LONG time and was pretty sure a couple of times it wasn't going to happen.However, after reading though this forum I am now DEEPLY concerned that we could be making a bad move. I read bitter posts about anti Americanism, about very high prices, and aggrivation w/ the Kiwi government with regard to manipulating the truth in order to attract immigrants. Some posters seem to seeth with disillusionment. I do not want this to be me. So, to that end, I would like to know what is it (money, age, gender, spouse) that makes a happy transplant vs. a miserable one.
> 
> THIS MY TAKE ON THE SITUATION
> 
> For our family, we understand that we will make less money and that money will not go as far. I understand that I will pay 50% more to rent for 1/2 the house I have now, meat is four times as much, and gas is three times as much. We understand that the weather is cooler and damper. We understand that people may not like us too. Not everyone likes me here either. My expectation is that my kids will be well educated in North Shore City. That all three (I've 2 teens and a tween) will be able to finish their degrees at Uni at a price I can afford ($54,000 NZ vs.$216,000US(that's the minimum) ). My expectation is that I will feel safer and be safer in my house and on the streets. I also understand that life guarantees me nothing. My expectation is that we will have some small retirement at 65 vs in the US where there will be none for us even though we pay into it. I expect a higher level of ethics from the government here, but maybe not in customs anymore. I expect fewer chemicals in my food and water (I also expect to wear sunscreen). I expect it to be beautiful but not everywhere and not all the time. I expect to be homesick but luckily I going with my best friends, my husband and three young adult children. And I expect my family will, even if we fail fabulously, be glad we gave it a go.
> 
> So, be brutal with me. Where does the whole thing fall apart? What ruined it for you? Or what made it worth it for you? In hindsight, would you do it again? Would you change anything? In your opinion, what is THE ONE MOST CRUCIAL ELEMENT in success in immigrating to NZ?
> 
> Thanks


I agree with Jen - you are approaching this in the right frame of mind - it will have its challenges but as long as you are willing to learn and to try to respect NZ way of life ..people here will be positive. Like Jen I am english but I have a number of American colleagues and friends and they are fine with it...they don't feel the anti americanism - I think your attitude is spot on. 

From a personal perspective I also have no regrets - this is a great place to be...we love it and the more we get to know it the more we love it. We live in Auckland (East Bays) - and yes its expensive but there are cheaper places to live in Auckland (where property is larger and cheaper) - and life is just as good (if not better) go for areas that you can afford on Northshore (cut your cloth accordingly) and you'll be fine....

One thing for sure - your children will just love it - once they settle this is a young persons country and the lifestyle for them can be really good - if they like the sea (and sun) or doing fun things with others there is much to enjoy....

For us it is a big adventure..(last big one I think!) and as long as you think of it like that - you have little to lose....

My advice is go for it...

All the best

Alan


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## Yvonne.72

Kiwiwannabe said:


> So, be brutal with me. Where does the whole thing fall apart? What ruined it for you? Or what made it worth it for you? In hindsight, would you do it again? Would you change anything? In your opinion, what is THE ONE MOST CRUCIAL ELEMENT in success in immigrating to NZ?
> 
> Thanks


I am fortunate to count amongst my friends and colleagues (in both Australia and New Zealand) immigrants from many countries, including some that emigrated to New Zealand and left to come over to Australia.

The most crucial element for all of them is MONEY, plain and simple. Emigration is BIG bucks and you're never getting a cent of it back.

Its not like an investment that's going to give you a steady return over the coming years. You might as well take a suitcase of $100 bills and set fire to it. 

No matter where you're headed be sure that:
1. You can afford to make the move.
2. That you are certain that you can get a job and earn enough when you get there.
3. You can put aside enough to enjoy life - holidays, entertainment, pensions, rainy day savings.
4. You have enough money to leave if you want to.

Without all that you will fail. You cannot live off the smell of an oily rag in New Zealand, its too expensive.

Look at the price of milk and cheese.


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## topcat83

Yvonne.72 said:


> ....The most crucial element for all of them is MONEY, plain and simple. Emigration is BIG bucks and you're never getting a cent of it back....


True, emigration costs money. But how sad if this the _most_ crucial element.

People emigrate for many reasons. I earn much less over here than I would in the UK (or even - yes - in Sydney, Australia). But it gives me something much greater than money - a country I want to live in, and a lifestyle I want to live. 

Everyone needs a certain level of cash to live on. We're fortunate to have above that level. 

I made my choice - others made theirs. I'm happy with mine. I get the pictures that others are still bitter?


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## Yvonne.72

topcat83 said:


> True, emigration costs money. But how sad if this the _most_ crucial element.
> 
> People emigrate for many reasons. I earn much less over here than I would in the UK (or even - yes - in Sydney, Australia). But it gives me something much greater than money - a country I want to live in, and a lifestyle I want to live.
> 
> Everyone needs a certain level of cash to live on. We're fortunate to have above that level.
> 
> I made my choice - others made theirs. I'm happy with mine. I get the pictures that others are still bitter?


But the question was "what THE ONE MOST CRUCIAL ELEMENT in *success *in immigrating to NZ?" not the most crucial element for emigration. 

Overwhelmingly the most crucial, over-riding element in success of emigration is MONEY, pure and simple.

I was reading another emigration based forum a week ago, looking to see how these things are structured - thinking that the Australian forum on here would benefit from some organisation because of all the different threads and topics - when I came across an excellent example of how money can quickly turn the most successful emigration into a living nightmare.

The moderator (who has her own property management company) is a British woman who'd emigrated to New Zealand with her children. All was going well until her marriage broke up she went through a messy divorce. Just as things were coming straight and they were dividing up the marital assets between them she discovered that the joint family home was almost certain to be a leaky home and it was going to cost 100s of thousands of dollars to put it right and could possibly bankrupt her. The ground went from beneath her feet overnight because of a problem that was
a. unforseen to her
b. fairly unique to New Zealand

No matter how much she loved her lifestyle, or New Zealand, she found herself in a situation she could not afford to extract herself from and would not have happened to her if she had not emigrated to New Zealand.

Now if I were in her position I would cut my loses, no question: hand the keys back to the bank and get the first plane out of the country with whatever money I had left whilst I still had it. Then I'd rebuild a new life in a country that didn't have these problems and where I felt I had a good chance of a fair-go at things.

Now whilst you may  at the thought of other people being bitter, how would you cope and what contingencies have you put aside if the same happened to you? 

What I am trying to say here is that situations can change in an instant and if the root of the problem is money - you're stuffed.


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## sabfrance

Kiwiwannabe,

If you have a good group of friends in your home country - you will make the same in NZ.

If you can find the positive in most things - you will find the same in NZ.

Take the time to get to know those around you, integrate with the community, don't compare everything to back home, work hard, enjoy your free time, join some sports clubs (if that's your thing), and be tolerant - and you will have a GREAT time.

I've lived in several different countries and I would pass on the above advice to anyone regardless of the country.

It's important to remember that the name of the country you are moving to is not Paradise... so be realistic and things will be fine. 5 years from now you will love the differences that drove you crazy when you first moved.

Good luck.


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## anski

Yvonne.72 said:


> But the question was "what THE ONE MOST CRUCIAL ELEMENT in *success *in immigrating to NZ?" not the most crucial element for emigration.
> 
> O she discovered that the joint family home was almost certain to be a leaky home and it was going to cost 100s of thousands of dollars to put it right and could possibly bankrupt her. The ground went from beneath her feet overnight because of a problem that was
> a. unforseen to her
> b. fairly unique to New Zealand


Afraid your are wrong on that one, Canada also has leaky homes.

As for me I lived in Australia for 32 years from 1967-1999 & towards the end I found the country changing to something I no longer liked.

I moved to NZ in 2001 & lived there until 2 years ago, now after a long O/E I find I am looking forward to returning to NZ & in spite of living in some beautiful countries & having many wonderful experiences I have missed NZ more than I imagined I would & look forward to making the move back later this year.

Having lived in 10 countries I can honestly say the first year is usually the worst & you will experience highs & lows. It is only natural moving house, country, getting divorced are all very stressful but if have a sense of humour & can tough it out it get's easier.
I have never found any anti American sentiment & personally have many American friends.
Give it a go, treat it as an extended holiday but do not expect things to be the same as your home country.
Remember the reason you wanted to move countries. If you were 100% happy where you lived in the first place you would never contemplate moving away.

I remember when I first arrived in NZ I found it very laid back, almost old fashioned but in a nice way. People were only too obliging to give directions or help in any way.
I had some floors sanded & polished & when the job was completed after 3 days the workers asked for a cheque, I expected to pay them in cash not having a cheque book but they said they could not accept cash. I phoned the company explaining the position & they said the owner would come & collect the cash, he did 6 weeks later. I cannot believe this situation would happen anywhere else.

You will find things are so simple, I took an English friend into my local bank in Auckland he was able to open a bank account immediately took all of 10 minutes.

Try doing the same in Europe! I received a parcel today delivered to my house the postman took a copy of my passport. I have to carry my passport everywhere if I want to use a Bank debit or credit card. In the car I am required to have original copies of car ownership, registration & insuance plus safety vests in glove box as well as warning triangles etc. If stopped by Police & you don't have them a hefty fine or arrested. 
You cannot buy a car or house without having a document proving you live at your address permanantly. There is so much red tape it took me 4 weeks to clear my shipping because I did not have the right documents I had to run around various government departments trying to establish my identity.
Today I discoverd I have been charged twice for an expensive flight on my locally issued Mastercard Debit card & have spent most of the day talking to the travel agent, airline & my bank who all deny responsibilty. They are all passing the buck & my bank now tells me they cannot tell me where my money has gone. but it has gone.
Bank's here just whip money out if some authority can persuade them that you owe them money, then you fight like hell to get it back.
Not only did I loose the money but yesterday I had booked a last minute cruise as well only to receive a phone call this morning to say they had cancelled my booking because they could not process the payment on my card (because of this duplicated charge. To safeguard myself I have had the card blocked & now have to wait 7 business day before I receive a new card & in the meantime have no means of accessing my funds in the bank. So at the moment I am not very happy & really look forward to heading back downunder & to sanity.


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