# Selling a house in Mexico



## MangoTango (Feb 8, 2020)

Over the last couple/few weeks I have had perhaps four or five realtors come by the house - which I would like to sell.
They have been a rather odd collection of individuals. I hope I never see some of them again.
Yesterday I received a WhatsApp from a realtor I have had no contact with in perhaps 5 months. (I have my theories as to why there was no contact).
Anyway this woman writes and says "I have a client that I think would like your house." They are coming by in the morning.
Interestingly - she is with the same global real estate company who sold our house in Florida.

So - I would like feedback from the people who visit the house and I really don't want it to come from the realtor - so today I have created the simplest of forms I would like to have completed by the people who visit.
In English - Date / Realtor / Visitor / Likes / Dislikes
In Spanish - Fecha / Agente de bienes raices / Visitante / Gustar / No Gustar
(How is my Spanish - is my intention clear?) Would you complete such a form ?

Rumor has it (and that is really all it is) that many Mexicans are currently withdrawing their monies from the bank and looking for real estate investments...

In the US we used to receive 'settlement statement' - forms which broke down the costs etc expected at closing. Has anyone ever seen such a thing here in Mexico ?


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## maesonna (Jun 10, 2008)

I’m not clear on your intentions for “likes / dislikes”. Is it to record what they liked or disliked about the house? What they want or don’t want in a house? Anyway, in Spanish, it’s hard to translate. I’m not sure about the following suggestion but I think “gustó / no gustó” is at least a little better for understanding than what you put.


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

Les gusto / no les gusto interesados / no interesados


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## rkstrand (9 mo ago)

I have always gotten a settlement statement from my Notario. I would not close without one.


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## timmy45 (Mar 22, 2021)

Getting direct feedback from a potential buyer is just good business. When we purchased in Merida, 4 yrs ago, we had a wonderful experience. On our first visit to the house we bought, our realtor was with us and we spent considerable time with the sellers. That does not happen in the US, where the thinking is like with attorneys, only they can talk to each other, clients cannot. We talked about what we liked, what they had done to the house, strengths and weaknesses about the property and they were very forthcoming. They had lived here for 5 yrs and were returning to Canada.

For the closing we attended with the sellers, our attorney and the realtor and had every detail in writing with costs and there were literally no surprises at all. In some ways better than multiple buy/sell experiences in the US. We continue to remind ourselves that things are just done differently than in the US but neither better or worse, just different. After all, if it has worked for 100's of years who are we to complain, better to adapt.

We don't know when we might sell, but when we do we will contact the same realtor, attorney and notario. Good luck


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

Realestate agents here are all over the place since there is really no formal permit or license for these people. It is a crapshoot.. Do not expect them to have any liaibiltity like they do in the states.. anyone can be a realestate agent here so some are professional and some are not.. There are no rules to go by and you are on your own with the notario at the end . The notario is really the only one that counts in the whole deal.


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## MangoTango (Feb 8, 2020)

I don't know who is going to show up today, but the realtor (assistant) who contacted me speaks pretty good English. When they get here I'm going to ask - would you like the tour or should I sit outside and read ? (Ya know - I recently had a realtor and one of her associates in the house at the same time and when I turned my back for a moment, the guy was going through the papers on my desk).

We didn't meet the previous owners of this house until closing. They seemed nice (German/Columbian). They gave us a tour of the house _after_ closing. 

The realtor who sold us this house (and was the seller's agent as well) was the son of the franchise owner. His background was in chemical engineering - so we kind of helped each other out a lot. We looked at maybe 100 different houses over a year's time. His mother was Canadian, father Mexican and they now live in Canada.

In the US I put together maybe a 4 page brochure for visitors. I started putting one together last night as well. I'm using the 'free' Microsoft Publisher. It is a work in progress, but when we were house-hunting we liked to return to the hotel room and look at stuff from our journeys - so this will fill that purpose.


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

It has not worked for hundreds of years people in Mexico did not use realestate agents the tradition was for the two buyers to get together agree and then end up with the notario, Some people who give clue of what was for sale and they may have received or not a tip not the type of commission people are paying now. Many deals are still done that way in Mexico , that is the tradition ..


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## MangoTango (Feb 8, 2020)

citlali said:


> Realestate agents here are all over the place since there is really no formal permit or license for these people. It is a crapshoot.. Do not expect them to have any liaibiltity like they do in the states.. anyone can be a realestate agent here so some are professional and some are not.. There are no rules to go by and you are on your own with the notario at the end . The notario is really the only one that counts in the whole deal.


The ink is not yet dry on my new escritura. In fact it may take 5-6 months before it is officially 'registered'. I met the notary (a young guy) for about 3 minutes after all the work was done. I would go back to him - but it is the buyer's choice (although I can request).


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

I have not seen any house where the owner was , anywhere..Make sure you lock up sensitive information and valuables.. ..


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

citlali said:


> I have not seen any house where the owner was , anywhere..Make sure you lock up sensitive information and valuables.. ..


yes it is the seller ´s choice..and yes you can request..


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

I have to see the notario as well because I am going to sell a house as well.. so much to do so little time.


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## MangoTango (Feb 8, 2020)

Well that was a kind of interesting experience I had this morning. I'm not sure I want to work with the realtor who came by.
She showed up early with a very nice older couple. Ok - no problem. They have in their hands a blue folder which apparently had literature about my house. I was handed a similar blue folder which I set down.
I offered to give them the tour. Yes / no / yes / no - I gave them the tour. The 'realtor' really did not like that I was showing the house - but ya know - a couple times when she made 'contributions' she really was making misrepresentations.
There were a few unusual moments. These people would appear to have some money. He is an executive for a Mexican bank, travels a lot for work, spent years in the Far East, has over two million frequent flyer miles with American.... My house has some unusual windows made in Germany (the previous owner was German). I started to say - and notice these windows - and the guy finishes my sentence for me - yes they are Kommerling windows, that is what we have in our current house. That was a weird moment....

But at no time did I feel the realtor was working for ME. They left after maybe 40 minutes or so. I tried to hand the guy some information my deceased wife had prepared for selling the house and the realtor said - oh I've already given them all that information (she had never seen it before). When I finally opened MY blue folder it was simply a contract - not a hint of what information she had given the people. If you scan a document as a PDF and then open it with Microsoft Word it will do a decent job of translating it. I've marked up the contract quite a bit - and at one point my blood pressure started rising when it was obvious they were trying to slip some things by me.

I'm sure it doesn't exist in Mexico but what I need is a realtor who will truly have my interests at heart. Someone who is 100% with me. That person should receive the apparent customary 5% commission if she brings the eventual buyer. But at this point I'm thinking I want that person present whenever someone else shows my house. Then I could take off and maybe not worry. In the US they have "buyer's agents". I need a "seller's agent" - who up front should receive 2.5% of whatever commission I pay and the other agent should get the other 2.5%. 

I just feel like I am covered in slim at the moment.


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

Is your house exclusive with one agent or any agent can show it.. If your agents does not know the specs unload her or him asap and work with someone else with whom you will sit write up the information you want to be known and make sure that is what is prsented and then leave.. I do not know one agent who wants the owner present- Yes sales in Mexico is slimmy.. I was in sales and I think Mexicans are the worse salespeople I have encountered they lie and shoot for the lower price and do not try to sell the features that they should sell. Many people are intereted in getting the lowest price anyways because chances are that they will remodel the house to their taste and want to use the money they do not give you to do that.
Many houses sell empty.. after your story about the guy checking your papers I can see that..

What you should be interested in is getting the best price you can so have an agent that sells the features you have in your house but besides that walk out.. There are no laws that tells the owner to disclose anything and once the papers are signed you are off the hook so do not get your blood pressure up about the selling methods here.

I also love the people who tell you what do you want for the house and they jack up the rpice so they can make the diffrence and so on.. Yes Mexico is not for the weak of heart.. but this too will pass , you will sell your house and you will be free to move on.


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## eastwind (Jun 18, 2016)

On the noisy street side of my apartment the prior owner had Kommerling silding glass doors and windows installed to replace the old sliding doors and windows in two bedrooms. They have a complicated opening mechanism that first moves inward at the top, then inward at the bottom, then slides. They froze up and wouldn't open, and I had to have them repaired. Some of the fittings had rusted and frozen. It was very expensive, cost me two thousand US because the guys had to order Kommerling repair kits which were a large kit to change almost all the fittings rather than being able to order just the fittings needed. 

So I guess kommerling windows are a thing here, but very expensive. The windows do seal very well and reduce the street noise, in addition to holding up in a hurricane. I'm supposed to have those guys back once a year to do preventative maintenance on those windows - I'm overdue. They shouldn't need new parts, they want to just take things apart and shine up the parts with rust.


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

I have a great story about great salemanship.. One of my ex boss is a great art collector and he and his wife who was an art dealer put one Rothko painting for sale for 87 million dollars..An art dealer from Switerland bought the painting and turned it around and sold it to a Russia oligarch for 140million dollars in the same transaction. Somehow the sale price ad what the Russian paid for it came out and everyone started suiing everyone as Bouvier was an agent , everyone agreed he was going to make a commission but no one imagined he would take a 53 million dollar commission. In the end the buyers and sellers lost in every court as everyone had agreed on the price and I do not think there was nothing in writing...
That was slimmey salemanship but you have to admit the guy was good.. That is the way some properties are sold in Mexico.. nothing in that scale but the same ethical measures apply here-...


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## MangoTango (Feb 8, 2020)

Well I am having a interesting day  
I tried calling my best friend / heir and albacea but she is not answering...

I was outside watering in the garden for the last couple hours.
Received a call from the realtor who was here earlier. It is not a firm offer (remember I haven't even signed a contract yet with this woman) BUT - the people who were here earlier are interested in knowing if I might consider a price 20% lower than my asking price. (I never really thought I would get my asking price...). The realtor says they liked two houses; mine and another. I told her to tell them I would consider coming down 'some' from my asking price but I was not agreeing to their price. (I am not a businessman). 

I reminded her my Spanish is not very good and I need someone to read her contract. I would need until maybe Tuesday.
She said ok.

I'm sure you all don't remember all the legal hassles I have gone through since my wife's passing - but my 'old' escriitura is a nightmare. I now have a squeaky clean new escritura. I told the woman I will never sign any paperwork which mentions the old escritura. Five minuets later I received a new contract with the change made. (There are still other changes required but that was a biggy).

So - I don't think I would outright accept the original 'low-ball' offer (and I don't want to be greedy - and I have not thought this out at all) but I was thinking if I come down from my asking price perhaps the buyers can pay part (or all ?) the commission. But (and if I get cocky I will blow it) - I should be able to find a very nice condo in the Cancun area for the amounts we are talking...

I really do need to get some sort of settlement statement. 

(And that was my very first showing). We once sold a beautiful house in Austin Texas in 3 days...


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## MangoTango (Feb 8, 2020)

citlali said:


> I have a great story about great salemanship.. One of my ex boss is a great art collector and he and his wife who was an art dealer put one Rothko painting for sale for 87 million dollars..An art dealer from Switerland bought the painting and turned it around and sold it to a Russia oligarch for 140million dollars in the same transaction. Somehow the sale price ad what the Russian paid for it came out and everyone started suiing everyone as Bouvier was an agent , everyone agreed he was going to make a commission but no one imagined he would take a 53 million dollar commission. In the end the buyers and sellers lost in every court as everyone had agreed on the price and I do not think there was nothing in writing...
> That was slimmey salemanship but you have to admit the guy was good.. That is the way some properties are sold in Mexico.. nothing in that scale but the same ethical measures apply here-...


Since we are telling stories - I worked, over the course of at least 10 years, for the same rich man. I worked at at least 3 different companies. He was a true genius. He would build up companies from scratch, make them work and then visit wall street and sit down across the table with all the people you see interviewed on the business news channels. Then we all had to put on the 'golden' handcuffs and wait for our non-competes to expire, and then we would do it all over again. This guy did not even have a high school diploma. Talk about salesmanship (or as some might say - he 'had a pair').

Last story for today - while waiting on a non-compete I actually had another very decent job at another company. One evening I get home from work and the doorbell rings. There is this same guy, a grin on his face from ear to ear - he says - Mango it's that time again. It was interesting. The car he had parked in my driveway was worth more than many homes in our nice neighborhood.


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

? My story was about selling houses or anything in Mexico.. Just saying that when you announce the price you want , take it and do not complain if enterprising people can make than you can.. Not sure what your stories were about, just cannot relate them to seeling houses..


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## MangoTango (Feb 8, 2020)

citlali said:


> ? My story was about selling houses or anything in Mexico.. Just saying that when you announce the price you want , take it and do not complain if enterprising people can make than you can.. Not sure what your stories were about, just cannot relate them to seeling houses..


Perhaps I went off on a tangent. Sorry. Actually - your story was about salesmanship (as was mine). And to be honest it really wasn't clear (to me anyway) you were talking about Mexico. I read Switzerland, Russia .... and Bouvier sounds French to me. But you are right - my stories had nothing to do with selling houses.


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

MangoTango said:


> Perhaps I went off on a tangent. Sorry. Actually - your story was about salesmanship (as was mine). And to be honest it really wasn't clear (to me anyway) you were talking about Mexico. I read Switzerland, Russia .... and Bouvier sounds French to me. But you are right - my stories had nothing to do with selling houses.


Well in Mexico some agents find out how much you want for the house and sell the house for more than you said and get money on the side when the house is sold from ear to mouth and sometimes by various agents.. It was an international story but it applies very much in Mexico.. It happened to people I know in Chiapas. where there are many deals under the table. 
As a rule the agents do not really want the owners to meet the buyers until it is necesary.. depends on the deal but there are lots and lots of things going on there are under the table. My house was listed at various prices by different agencies why and what did the owner get at the end.. I think that 20 years ago in Chiapas very few people corresponded by internet so and houses prices were subject to fluctuation,, I saw a deal that went through because although the buyers and seller had agreed on the price in pesos the seller saw the dollar strengthen and raised the price in pesos as they were about to sign.. This is not the US for sure..


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## AlanMexicali (Jun 1, 2011)

MangoTango said:


> Well I am having a interesting day
> I tried calling my best friend / heir and albacea but she is not answering...
> 
> I was outside watering in the garden for the last couple hours.
> ...


Don't accept the 20 percent discount. Take only your asking price. No one bargains on house that I know, including me. I they truly want it you will get it sold. IMO


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## MangoTango (Feb 8, 2020)

citlali said:


> Well in Mexico some agents find out how much you want for the house and sell the house for more than you said and get money on the side when the house is sold from ear to mouth and sometimes by various agents.. It was an international story but it applies very much in Mexico.. It happened to people I know in Chiapas. where there are many deals under the table.
> As a rule the agents do not really want the owners to meet the buyers until it is necesary.. depends on the deal but there are lots and lots of things going on there are under the table. My house was listed at various prices by different agencies why and what did the owner get at the end.. I think that 20 years ago in Chiapas very few people corresponded by internet so and houses prices were subject to fluctuation,, I saw a deal that went through because although the buyers and seller had agreed on the price in pesos the seller saw the dollar strengthen and raised the price in pesos as they were about to sign.. This is not the US for sure..


My brain is winding down for the day - almost time to go read - but in looking over my day today - I've got to tell you, my wife left me a ton of lists and notes to try and make life easier for me. She was in sales (or sales related) jobs the whole while I knew her. One of the last things she put together was a very straight-forward list of 'benefits' to owning this house. I did a lot of talking when the 'buyers' were here today - but as they were getting ready to leave I said - please, give me just one more moment. I went back into the house, grabbed my wife's list of benefits (written in Spanish) and ya know - the husband read it and said - this is good stuff.

I know there was some 'hanky-panky' going on when we bought this house. I was a part of it. In theory it benefited both the sellers and us (the buyers). Maybe now I will pay a price for some of those things - time will tell. It is a little funny how when we bought there was only one agent involved and if the people I spoke with today buy, once again there will only be one agent.

I do have two questions at the moment. 
1) There are absolutely ZERO fiduciary responsibilities on the part of a realtor in Mexico ? That includes the realtor and any broker or franchise owner ? I thought there was a Mexican realtor association of some sort ?
2) Over the last few months the question of facturas has come up. We never really bothered with them. Yes I still keep in touch with the people who did most of our 'major' projects over the years and yes I think they could look back in their records and kind of 'dummy-up' some facturas BUT at the same time I have been told things like - don't worry, I will take care of that.

So Citali - how is _your_ personal life going ?


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## MangoTango (Feb 8, 2020)

AlanMexicali said:


> Don't accept the 20 percent discount. Take only your asking price. No one bargains on house that I know, including me. I they truly want it you will get it sold. IMO


My 'best friend' had her house on the market for close to 20 million pesos. In the end she took somewhere in the area of 8 (zero expenses) - just to get on with life.
I think 20% is a bit steep - and I have no way of knowing exactly _who_ is feeling me out. I really do need to see the math. I have said dozens of times lately - I wish I could live my life like a professional athlete who has an agent to do all the negotiations. I need a 'life agent'..

One interesting tidbit - this guy is some big wig at a large bank and yet he plans to finance the house.


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## MangoTango (Feb 8, 2020)

citlali said:


> I saw a deal that went through because although the buyers and seller had agreed on the price in pesos the seller saw the dollar strengthen and raised the price in pesos as they were about to sign.. This is not the US for sure..


Related - there is a clause in the contract I was handed today - "In the event the pesos suffers a variation of more than 20% in its parity with the dollar, the professional will be obliged to suspend the promotion until a new agreement is reached"


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## eastwind (Jun 18, 2016)

Part of the deal, to be negotiated now, is a security deposit that they pay up front to keep you from finding a higher offer. They should have to pay a higher deposit if they are financing the deal, because their financing might not go through. 

Another part is the commission to the agent - you should only have to pay that if the deal closes, not in the case that the buyer abandons the security deposit and leaves you with the house.

You don't actually have to sign a contract with the agent at all now. You've met the buyers, and if they want the house they can go around the agent and the pair of you can stiff the agent - it happens. Or you can negotiate with the agent about how much they get - since they've had to do so little work - and work their price down (under the threat that they'll get nothing).

In Cancun, where the prices on everything have skyrocketed, the sale shenanigans typically revolve around having the sale price be understated. A side payment from the buyer to the seller makes up the difference. The Notario has to be in on that for it to work, but in Cancun it seems they are mostly willing. The result is lower property taxes for the buyer, and lower capital gains taxes for the seller, and less money for Mexico. But then when the buyer resells, the shenanigans have to be repeated, because otherwise the price appreciation from the prior sale is larger than it really was, and all the taxes that were cheated on before have to be paid.

So a key question for your notario is what price was reported on the property when you bought it? You need to find out if you don't know for sure that it wasn't understated. The tax rate on gains is 39% of the gain, but there's an exemption for citizens living in their own home.

I negotiated very hard to make sure when I bought my condo that the price reported would be the actual price so I wouldn't be under-reporting. The seller had some scheme (that worked for him) to get double the usual exemption, by representing the place as half owned by him and half by his mother, and them each getting the full exemption, so I got to be honest and the seller got to avoid most of the taxes. He still paid a bunch. 

If you need to perpetuate shenanigans, the time to negotiate that is now, as a part of the sales price. 

Obviously you don't accept -20%, that's their first offer. They expect you to come down some and they'll go up some, the middle is -10% and they're probably aiming for that. You come down 4% or so and see what they do.


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## eastwind (Jun 18, 2016)

PS: also the business about the buyers having another house they like is total BS. They say that every single time. Typically the seller also claims to have another buyer interested. 

The reason coming down 4% is the right amount is they're expecting you to come down 5, they go up 5, you come down 5 and they accept that -10% total reduction. That's their planned trajectory. You can't modify it substantially, but you can tweak it, hence -4%. Everybody expects the seller to come down at least 10%, so if your original asking price didn't take that into account you messed up, but it's still fixable at this point just by heavy negotiation.

Remember, you've only been on the market a week or two, that's lightning speed for Mexico to have any kind of an offer at all.

Another possibility is that the offer isn't real, the sellers haven't made it, and the agent is making it up, just to get you to come down first. She feels sure that if you were to surprisingly accept the -20% that she could find a buyer for more than that - and that may be the reason for the need to finance the property, because it's not the banker buying it but the agent.


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## AlanMexicali (Jun 1, 2011)

Capital gain is 32 to 35 on residential property not 39 percent. Federal tax. Official inflation is 12.37 percent this year and residential house prices usually come up the same rate as inflation. His house is in a desirable privada and if there are more comprobable houses in there then a discount might be necessary but if not stay firm especially in the case the realtor doesn't finalize a deal for a discount they will blab to prospective buyers you will take less.


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

The exemption per person id 4 million pesos or was the last time I checked, that is why I wanted to sell the house while my husband was alive.. but could not get him to agree until July so my timing was off. now from what I remember I only have a 4 million pesos exemption and since the house was reported very low, I have to pay , I believe.. I ll see when I talk to the notary.. 
I am not aware of any fiduciary responsasibilities that agents , brokers, have. I would love to know if they have any outside of rightout fraud.. There is no disclosure law either. 

What ever work you have done can be deducted if you have facturas but if you do not then forget it. I doubt that your workers will give you any factura because if you did not ask for one they probably did not report any income I do not know about your neck of the woods but you can forget facturas for most wok in CHiapas.. If you have a firm ,doing it no problem or buy from ferreteria after insisting you can get them but with some workers, you ca forget about it. I actually reported a doctor and a clinic thatwould not give me a factura.. to SAT and they had to produce one but that was a lot of work..
My life is fine.. I have always travelled a lot as I was in sales and I was gone 80 % of the time. We always had 2 houses so my life has not changed much . I am very busy on projects with artisans. I have many visitors so life is ok. I I have waves of sadness that come and go .. yesterday would have been our 51st anniversary so it was a melancholic day.. but life goes on.. The paperwork between the US and France is driving me up the wall but this will go away eventually. My French passort is expired so now I have to go to Mexico city for a new one etc.. the usual paperwork crap... 

Good luck on the sle of the house..






























.


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## Takingiteasy (Aug 12, 2021)

I've done my share of horse trading in houses and other things. I hesitate to apply that to mexico real estate because as everyone knows, they do things differently there. However, I've noticed that certain things seem to hold true no matter where you go. Eastwind gave some very good tips, sure they will always say someone else has a better deal, someone else is interested. That and 50 pesos will get you a cab ride. If you aren't going far.

That prospective buyer has an eye for the windows and other features. If your house was not nearly perfect to his desires, he would not make that lowball offer. He no doubt will change a few things but he is showing he likes location and other features. As for lowering your price, are you sure you started with a fair price? You may feel its high but you have lived there a long time and may not have noticed the price appreciation. 

If you are convinced after asking a few people that the price is fair or even a little low, I would not drop even the 8 or 10% mentioned. Explain that you are a ****** and don't know how to bargain so you made your offer at the lowest price you can sell for. Joking but he might laugh and be more agreeable. I would indicate the price was firm but perhaps not set in concrete. Drop the price a little if you feel you have wiggleroom, if he comes back with a game playing move like if he goes up just a few percent, you may need to dig your heels in a little. I would say I will wait and if my 3 or 4% offer is not taken, I will simply wait. I assume you did not tell realtor or prospective clients that you are under pressure to wrap it up fast?

Now if you really do have some extra room in your price over and above what similar properties are going for, then you could play the game and come down 10% or even more. Keep in mind, the time you save now by taking a lower offer may come back to haunt you later. Act in haste and repent at leisure. 

I think you said you considered air bb or some such? Its tricky but long distance owners have made it work and get decent money to more than pay taxes and so on. Of course if you need the dough for a condo that is a complication. Of course you could rent a condo and rent your home in mx. You would probably have to come up with some loot each month but hey, condo fees are not free you know.

If nothing else, you could float the idea around buyers or agents, say you can't decide if you want to sell or rent but you will sell if you get your price. If you dont get the price then its rental time. You can always change your mind but it might give you a little psychological advantage. 

Another thought is that the usa real estate market seems to be in a bubble and the economy is in danger of tanking. More than one expert predicted a recession. The last recession, housing prices cratered so waiting might not be such a bad move. I made a nice piece of change buying in the last real estate crash in '09 and '10


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## Takingiteasy (Aug 12, 2021)

Ooops I didn't know "grin go" was a bad word without the space. I wasn't cursing


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## surabi (Jan 1, 2017)

MangoTango said:


> Yes I still keep in touch with the people who did most of our 'major' projects over the years and yes I think they could look back in their records and kind of 'dummy-up' some facturas


No, no one can "dummy up" facturas. When someone issues you a factura, that is an official receipt that the issuer has to report as income in the month that it is issued and pay taxes on it. 

What facturas do is give you deductions on capital gains because you can claim them as expenses incurred by owning the house. So any work you had done, or purchases you made that aare included in the house when you sell it can be deducted from the income. 

But the fact is, most of us get construction and other work done by local tradesman, who aren't even reporting their income, so they aren't going to give out facturas. 

But when we go make purchases of building materials, appliances, etc, those are usually from stores which are a registered business that does have to report their sales, charge and pay IVA, so it's a good idea to ask for facturas for those type of things.


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## eastwind (Jun 18, 2016)

Another thing you can do for bargaining - explain that you still aren't 100% sure you want to sell, you haven't decided where you want to live, go on and on about maybe Florida, maybe Cancun, maybe the west coast or _maybe stay right here_. Be sure to slip that one in. You want to paint a picture of someone who really loves the house, hates to part with it, lots of fond memories, blah blah blah. Load up the truck with the conflicting emotions. Make the buyer think you're ready to just stay put.

Negotiating is the same as everywhere, but much more so here. Tap your inner Nicholas Cage and wear your neuroticism on your sleeve.


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## Takingiteasy (Aug 12, 2021)

eastwind said:


> Another thing you can do for bargaining - explain that you still aren't 100% sure you want to sell, you haven't decided where you want to live, go on and on about maybe Florida, maybe Cancun, maybe the west coast or _maybe stay right here_. Be sure to slip that one in. You want to paint a picture of someone who really loves the house, hates to part with it, lots of fond memories, blah blah blah. Load up the truck with the conflicting emotions. Make the buyer think you're ready to just stay put.
> 
> Negotiating is the same as everywhere, but much more so here. Tap your inner Nicholas Cage and wear your neuroticism on your sleeve.


Yes, a couple days of playing just a bit hard to get will sometimes product thousands or tens of thousands of extra dollars. If you priced it fairly, they will know its priced fairly and still try to cheat you, of course. Human nature. Being a little unsure if you really want to sell puts the onus on the buyer. If they want it and you seem to be slipping away from their hard bargaining, they will come around. 

You might ask buyers 'do you think I should sell or stay here?' Put them in the position of trying to convince you on the idea of moving away and selling the house. Once they start doing that they become hooked on the property and more likely to make a good offer. The guy didn't get rich by paying too much or more than he had to but he will pay if he wants it. If its not right, the discount probably wouldn't work anyway


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## surabi (Jan 1, 2017)

Takingiteasy said:


> Ooops I didn't know "grin go" was a bad word without the space


It isn't. It's just slang for "American". But some forum algorithms are concocted by programmers who think that words have meanings they don't, that they are pejoritive.


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## timmy45 (Mar 22, 2021)

surabi said:


> It isn't. It's just slang for "American". But some forum algorithms are concocted by programmers who think that words have meanings they don't, that they are pejoritive.


Well said........


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## Takingiteasy (Aug 12, 2021)

Well, I didn't want him to think I said something so nasty they had to censor it, lol. 

I think haste makes waste, even more so when a major purchase or sale like a house. At the beginning of the year I was going to buy a house, was thinking about getting one here in mx, but with all the commotion, the war, and other things including the fact that usa at least is in a real estate bubble and a likely recession coming, I think time may be on my side. I don't expect mexican r/e to collapse in value in lockstep with usa when the recession hits or the down turn or whatever they decide to call it but you never know. For sure its a poor time to buy real estate in usa. I saw some home values fall by 80% or more in '09 and '10 the last recession 

The dollar and all currency not backed by precious metals or other goods is dropping in value fast. We only notice it when we see prices are higher or when we see the peso has fallen against the dollar. It doesn't mean the dollar got stronger, just that the peso weakened faster than the dollar. I recommend r/e, gold, silver, other things in great demand or bitcoin to save your money. Savings kept in cash lose 2% to 10% or more per year and we haven't had inflation as low as 2% in a long time


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## MangoTango (Feb 8, 2020)

Well a new day (Happy Easter by the way) and a new world.
All of a sudden my WhatsApp came alive with a flurry of messages this morning.

"The client has found this listing on the internet and says we are over priced"...
It is a stale listing that was on the internet when we were looking in 2012.
Many of the photos are close to identical to current (valid) listings for my house.
It says right on the bogus page - "Publicado hace más de 1 año".

But now the people from yesterday think my house is over-priced.
I asked the realtor - are you MY agent or are you THEIR agent ?
"Oh yes - but these sort of listings make it very difficult to get the best price".
I said - but YOU are the professional.

I asked her not to bother me any more with these issues.
I gave her the website (with phone number) for the company who has had my house listed for over 10 years and asked her to have HER clients give that company a call and arrange a showing.
At one point I even mentioned that it has been suggested that my asking price is too low.

I probably won't be hearing anymore from that realtor...


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

If the people really want the house they will be back if not, on to the next person.. SOmeone will show up and buy your house be patient.


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## eastwind (Jun 18, 2016)

That realtor was no good. A good realtor will try to manipulate you without it being so transparent. You can assume she was feeding the buyer an equal portion of obvious baloney. They should be able to see through that too, and might go around her to negotiate with you directly (and cut her out of the deal entirely).


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## MangoTango (Feb 8, 2020)

eastwind said:


> That realtor was no good. A good realtor will try to manipulate you without it being so transparent. You can assume she was feeding the buyer an equal portion of obvious baloney. They should be able to see through that too, and might go around her to negotiate with you directly (and cut her out of the deal entirely).


That realtor is REALLY no good. For one thing she is the second string.
Her Spanish is a lot better than mine and I have to point out to her that the listing says it is over a year old.
What could have been on her mind and the minds of the potential buyers. What reaction could they have possibly expected of me ? 

I'm going to have a chat (actually a WhatsApp) with the (very expensive, but sharp as a whip) lawyer who helped me with my new will / escritura.
I'm going to ask him if he can draft me my own contract for dealing with these real estate people. That way I _know_ what is in the contract.
I never again want to hear of an informal offer. All offers need to be in writing (and I believe the practice is to have good faith money with the offer).
Anything short of that is a waste of time - and I don't need the emotional roller coaster.

This realtor and I have not signed a contract. Although some 6-7 months ago they sent in professional photographers etc - they have never posted a listing. 
I have two other "professional" realtors with whom I have not signed a contract with - in fact they do not want a contract - but they have my house on the internet.

I think the husband from yesterday really was more interested in impressing his wife with his negotiating prowess than he was in actually buying anything. It was a game.

(She was very careful that there was no contact information passed between us yesterday). 

Just for giggles - what do you think is a fair figure to use as an annual inflation rate ? If I use the advertised price from the 10 year old website and use an inflation percentage of 10% it takes me less than 4 years to come up with a figure higher than my current asking price... (and that excludes the millions of pesos we spent on improvements over the years).


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## eastwind (Jun 18, 2016)

Well, I don't think that's the way the offer/negotiation process works here - you bargain informally and when you have a deal you get a lawyer to write up a contract, and that's when they put down earnest money (when you both sign that contract). You're trying to make it work like the US, and that's not going to work out well. As the seller, you will put pressure on the buyer to sign that contract and put up the earnest money to 'lock' in the deal. Until then, you can negotiate with others.

But you can certainly get a contract to use with the realtors. I think that's probably a good idea. 

So forget about that first realtor, no skin off your nose at this point. They will all try to jerk you around emotionally, that's part of the "game". You have to be tough with them.

I sold a house in california. I found myself a real hot-shot real estate agent, someone who was selling dozens of places a year, making a boatload of money at it. A week after I signed the contract, before the property was even shown, she was trying to get me to lower the price. "The market has changed!" she said. I got pretty rude with her, told her that was, ahem, baloney. She got me an offer the next week, over asking by 10k. I took it, of course, it was the only one! After it was accepted and earnest money down, the buyers apparently found out from their loan officer that they were going to have to pay for some termite work. I'd had the place inspected for termites, and a report was available to buyers that said the house would need to be 'bagged' for dry termites. Very common in California. And the house was being sold as-is. So it was on the buyer. They tried to pull out of the deal, or get me to lower the price. Nope, give me the security deposit if you don't want the house. In the end that hot-shot agent claimed she gave them a discount out of her commission to keep the deal from breaking - because she apparently hadn't presented the buyer with the termite report. Her mistake, not mine. 

As long as you don't put yourself in a situation where you _have _to sell by a certain date, you have all the time in the world and can hang tough. Don't let them get to you emotionally. They will try, and it's on purpose, because when it works, it pays. Just hang tough, or convince them you're a lunatic, either way can work.


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## MangoTango (Feb 8, 2020)

I have my force fields up - so I'm ready for all the back lash I am about to receive  

I've decided to go exclusively with one realtor. She is the same realtor who has sold 3 houses of friends in the last year.
Her English is a little better than my Spanish.
I will give her the keys to my house. Anyone who wants to see it goes through her.
I will pay her a commission and whatever other realtors might bring clients that is between them and her.
The cats will be put in one bedroom and left alone. If she is going to show the house - I'm going for a walk in the park.

I have signed no contracts with anyone else. One woman has put stuff out on the internet and I am trying to reach her to tell her of my new arrangement.

This woman and I will have a contract.


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## Jreboll (Nov 23, 2013)

I know that in some small towns it’s a buyer’s market. There’ll be certain rich investors discouraging sales until the seller is willing to sell at a huge discount. Some realtors are in on this. We were told to be very discreet when we started to sell, to just put out the word to trusted friends to see if anyone was interested .


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## eastwind (Jun 18, 2016)

That's one way to go that can work, depending on the realtor you pick. An important thing to negotiate is the length of the exclusivity. Don't give her more than six months, and preferably only three. If she's any good, she'll sell it in that time, if she's not, you want to get untied sooner rather than later. 

One caveat to the above: that advice is based on the US, not Mexico, and things move slowly here, so maybe a longer exclusivity period is reasonable here. But the less you give her, the more flexibility you have - you don't _have _to break the exclusivity when the contract expires if you think she's doing good, you can re-negotiate with her at that point for an extension (maybe at that point she agrees to a cut in her commission for an extension of exclusivity since you've had to wait so long)


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## MangoTango (Feb 8, 2020)

Jreboll said:


> I know that in some small towns it’s a buyer’s market. There’ll be certain rich investors discouraging sales until the seller is willing to sell at a huge discount. Some realtors are in on this. We were told to be very discreet when we started to sell, to just put out the word to trusted friends to see if anyone was interested .


Well to some extent that is a part of my reasoning. I will have one trusted adviser (and I have a friend who swears by this woman). She will do whatever screening needs to be done. She will have the keys to the house and I will be nowhere to be found when someone visits. This woman is all about networking and principally has contacts outside our area. I want her to be comfortable with my asking price and not come running to me with every low-ball offer. If you can believe what I have been told by a few people lately - here it is currently a seller's market. 

I would love to be out of this house - but there really is no rush. It is a great house with a view that causes jaws to drop. I own the house. Expenses are very very low. The house is in excellent condition. I have someone who will rent me storage space for peanuts if I want to empty the house - and I'm not sure I will hold onto much stuff anyway. At this moment I just don't want to 'play the game'. I don't want the emotional roller coaster. I could easily rent elsewhere while this house sat empty and (although I'm not sure I would let myself) I could probably buy someplace else while I waited. 

But I will probably wake up tomorrow with a totally different mindset


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## MangoTango (Feb 8, 2020)

eastwind said:


> That's one way to go that can work, depending on the realtor you pick. An important thing to negotiate is the length of the exclusivity. Don't give her more than six months, and preferably only three. If she's any good, she'll sell it in that time, if she's not, you want to get untied sooner rather than later.
> 
> One caveat to the above: that advice is based on the US, not Mexico, and things move slowly here, so maybe a longer exclusivity period is reasonable here. But the less you give her, the more flexibility you have - you don't _have _to break the exclusivity when the contract expires if you think she's doing good, you can re-negotiate with her at that point for an extension (maybe at that point she agrees to a cut in her commission for an extension of exclusivity since you've had to wait so long)


Man eastwind - I hope I never have to sit across a negotiating table with you. You are a tough cookie !!

We were both typing at the same time so our thoughts crossed over Merida (or maybe Puebla) but I think my last post touched on some of the things you bring up.

I posted recently that I wanted a 'life agent'. If I am lucky I've got a piece of one today. As my best friend put it recently - this woman is a shark...


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## eastwind (Jun 18, 2016)

Back when I was an up-and-comer at IBM they sent me to a week of training on project and contract management. At the end I got a piece of paper that claims to be a Masters in Project Management from GW university, but sheesh it was only 40 hours, so hardly an MA degree. Anyway, we had a day on negotiation, with some role play, where I was told I was very tough.

I never got a chance to use it. I think the problem is I was considered too tough. I tend to be a bit of a scorched earth negotiator. That can be ok if you're never going to have to deal with the counterparty again, but its not so good when the relationship has value. And there's the issue of what that counterparty you squeeze tells others that might want to do business with you...

In selling your house, these are things you shouldn't worry about. Squeeze 'em as hard as you can! More juice from the lemon!


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