# Uk return



## agua642 (May 24, 2009)

Good morning, 

I'm going to be returning to. UK after 30 years on Spain, and buying a house in England. (Not from the proceeds of a sale in Spain) Would it be wiser to baja in Hacienda myself fiscal, personal detalles before purchasing house or after? In the same tax year. I understand I have to complete models 036 or 037 with Hacienda. Any genuine advice appreciated. Please try and stay on topic! Thanks 😊


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

agua642 said:


> Good morning,
> 
> I'm going to be returning to. UK after 30 years on Spain, and buying a house in England. (Not from the proceeds of a sale in Spain) Would it be wiser to baja in Hacienda myself fiscal, personal detalles before purchasing house or after? In the same tax year. I understand I have to complete models 036 or 037 with Hacienda. Any genuine advice appreciated. Please try and stay on topic! Thanks 😊


do it all a few days before you leave, to keep it legal

come off the padrón, deregister as resident, tell the centro de salud

& yes, tell Hacienda of the date that you are leaving as well.


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## agua642 (May 24, 2009)

xabiachica said:


> do it all a few days before you leave, to keep it legal come off the padrón, deregister as resident, tell the centro de salud & yes, tell Hacienda of the date that you are leaving as well.


Any one has personal experience on this subject?


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## agua642 (May 24, 2009)

Thanks Yes i'll do what you mention, is it really necessary for me to give up my residencia permanente took me years to get it!!, also if I am buying property in UK will I need to declare it next year on declaration in Spain? Or if I Baja permanente in hacienda not need to ?


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

agua642 said:


> Thanks Yes i'll do what you mention, is it really necessary for me to give up my residencia permanente took me years to get it!!, also if I am buying property in UK will I need to declare it next year on declaration in Spain? Or if I Baja permanente in hacienda not need to ?


Of course as you won't be resident here! How will you get access to health care in UK if you are still resident in Spain (they do check)?


Why did it take you years to get it? It should only take days?


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

snikpoh said:


> Of course as you won't be resident here! How will you get access to health care in UK if you are still resident in Spain (they do check)?
> 
> 
> Why did it take you years to get it? It should only take days?


presumably because you aren't entitled to 'residencia permanente' until you've been legally resident for 5 years 

but yes - the OP of course has to baja her residency status when she leaves


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## agua642 (May 24, 2009)

Thanks again for replies, it's more the tax situation I would like replies on.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

I'm not sure I understand :confused2:

When you leave, not before & not after, you give Hacienda the date that you are no longer resident 

That's all there is to it really 

they will then tell you when you have to submit your final resident tax return


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## extranjero (Nov 16, 2012)

If, when you leave Spain, having spent more than183 days in Spain, I realise that next year an income tax declaration has to be made from the UK, ( deducting any UK tax paid)but there seems to be disagreement from people I've asked, as to whether a 720 has to be submitted as well, if a property has been purchased since returning to the UK
As I would be non resident in 2016, what use is it to the Hacienda to know my assets any more, as a non resident?


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## extranjero (Nov 16, 2012)

PS when I deregistered from the foreigners list, I met many people there who had been in Spain for years and never registered.
They were only doing it because they had become state pensioners, and wanted free health care
I bet no one asked why they had not registered before!


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

extranjero said:


> If, when you leave Spain, having spent more than183 days in Spain, I realise that next year an income tax declaration has to be made from the UK, ( deducting any UK tax paid)but there seems to be disagreement from people I've asked, as to whether a 720 has to be submitted as well, if a property has been purchased since returning to the UK
> As I would be non resident in 2016, what use is it to the Hacienda to know my assets any more, as a non resident?


you really need to check with a tax expert, but my understanding is that if you are tax resident for part of the tax year, you do a tax return for that year, the following June - & a 720 for that year as well

so if you leave before Dec 31st 2015, you will do a 720 for this year & also a tax return in June 2016 

if you leave after that, your tax return will be due in June 2017, for the part of the year 2016 that you were tax resident, & a 720 for that period as well


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## agua642 (May 24, 2009)

Good point extranjero! & why do the Spanish tax office need to know assets bought after de registering tax/residencia/.. still not sure what to do for the best:wink:


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

agua642 said:


> Good point extranjero! & why do the Spanish tax office need to know assets bought after de registering tax/residencia/.. still not sure what to do for the best:wink:


 obviously they don't

you declare for the period that you _were _tax resident, up to & including the date that you left !!


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## extranjero (Nov 16, 2012)

xabiachica said:


> obviously they don't
> 
> you declare for the period that you _were _tax resident, up to & including the date that you left !!


I thought you were tax resident for the whole year, and thus you have to submit a return fore the Whole year, deducting any UK tax aleady paid.i can see the need to do this, because tax is owed, but I cannot se why they would want a 720, as its just to let them know what assets are held by a resident.
If the resident has gone back to the UK, what's it got to do with them now?
My accountant is adamant that I don't have to submit the 720, but others are saying I should
Has anyone actually asked the Hacienda what to do in these circumstances?
It's a relatively new thing, so no one seems sure.


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## CapnBilly (Jun 7, 2011)

extranjero said:


> I thought you were tax resident for the whole year, and thus you have to submit a return fore the Whole year, deducting any UK tax aleady paid.i can see the need to do this, because tax is owed, but I cannot se why they would want a 720, as its just to let them know what assets are held by a resident.
> If the resident has gone back to the UK, what's it got to do with them now?
> My accountant is adamant that I don't have to submit the 720, but others are saying I should
> Has anyone actually asked the Hacienda what to do in these circumstances?
> It's a relatively new thing, so no one seems sure.


This is the same question I think you posted on another forum about 3 weeks ago. This is the answer I posted which is from the Hacienda website, which I think is the same as asking them


Pregunta 2: Si una persona física se trasladó al extranjero una vez iniciado el ejercicio 2012 y deberá presentar declaración del Impuesto sobre la Renta de Personas Físicas por el ejercicio 2012. ¿Tiene obligación de presentar el Modelo informativo respecto a los bienes y derechos en el extranjero?.

Respuesta: Sí, siempre y cuando de acuerdo con la regulación de estas tres obligaciones de información resulte obligado a informar de las mismas.

The answer to your question about why you have to declare any change in your assets after you have left, but whilst you are still resident for tax purposes, is quite simple. It's about ensuring that they can trace undeclared assets/income. So, for example, if you bought a new property, and there was no corresponding decrease in other assets, then that means there is an income source, which should have been declared in some way, e.g income, inheritance, etc. That could pro,pt an investaigation.


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

xabiachica said:


> presumably because you aren't entitled to 'residencia permanente' until you've been legally resident for 5 years
> 
> but yes - the OP of course has to baja her residency status when she leaves


There used to be a box on the form EX-18(section 4 on right-hand side) which, when checked, made the 'residencia' permanent. So, some green forms immediately said permanent and some did not.

I agree, after 5 years you can get a permanent one if you so wish.


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## extranjero (Nov 16, 2012)

CapnBilly said:


> This is the same question I think you posted on another forum about 3 weeks ago. This is the answer I posted which is from the Hacienda website, which I think is the same as asking them
> 
> 
> Pregunta 2: Si una persona física se trasladó al extranjero una vez iniciado el ejercicio 2012 y deberá presentar declaración del Impuesto sobre la Renta de Personas Físicas por el ejercicio 2012. ¿Tiene obligación de presentar el Modelo informativo respecto a los bienes y derechos en el extranjero?.
> ...


Presumably I would only have to declare the property, bought with proceeds from my main residence in Spain, on the 720, as assets in other categories have not increased by 20 k.?
Apart from that, how would they know( not that I'm going to hide it!)


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

snikpoh said:


> There used to be a box on the form EX-18(section 4 on right-hand side) which, when checked, made the 'residencia' permanent. So, some green forms immediately said permanent and some did not.
> 
> I agree, after 5 years you can get a permanent one if you so wish.


I'm sure I ticked it - it was a long time ago....

our res certs don't say 'con carácter permanente' though

one day when I have time I'll go get a 'permanente' one - cos I for sure have no intention of leaving!!


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