# New concrete road.



## bigpearl (Jan 24, 2016)

The local council/Barangay are in the midst of building a new concrete road, while welcomed there is no access for us to exit our house with the car, save for the motorbike. We had no notification that this was going to happen, they appeared. Whilst we are happy to have this happen for an eventual easier access but no ramp/access was or will be supplied from the contractor and is up to the land owner to provide, If we call an ambulance then tough titties there is no access, too late I am dead.

Interestingly it is only concrete with no steel reinforcing and will only be 4.3 metres wide, tight to pass an oncoming vehicle with a 200 mm drop on both sides.

More fun in the Philippines.

Cheers, Steve.


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## Manitoba (Jun 25, 2014)

And from what I have seen here they will at some time stop work for a while and not do anything about providing access or inform anyone impacted.

In my travels I have seen a few hundreds work sites, not one had what I would consider sufficient men and equipment working on it to finish in anything approaching a timely manner. The vast majority had no men or equipment at the site, just a (grossly inadequate) sign, if that.


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## bigpearl (Jan 24, 2016)

Manitoba said:


> And from what I have seen here they will at some time stop work for a while and not do anything about providing access or inform anyone impacted.
> 
> In my travels I have seen a few hundreds work sites, not one had what I would consider sufficient men and equipment working on it to finish in anything approaching a timely manner. The vast majority had no men or equipment at the site, just a (grossly inadequate) sign, if that.


Agree Rick and that is "apparently" how it is done. I also witnessed many roadworks both in Cam Sur and Cagayan but always access for a car whether the old dirt or a ramp onto the new concrete but here in Tammacalao little info nor services are offered to the locals and we march on regardless, thank god we have a motorbike to gain daily needs.

Have to add though that it eventually works and in the meantime none of the locals mind only the likes of newcomers such as myself,,,,,,,, chilling now.

Cheers, Steve.


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## Gary D (Oct 28, 2013)

They also do a few tens of metres then leave a gap then another stretch and so on with no rhyme or reason.


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## Rwestgate (Jan 29, 2019)

same experience my in-laws had, build in 20 meter sections with huge gaps, they eventually connected all the pieces but really dangerous for a while. The upside is the lot my wife and I bought has almost doubled based on offers we have received


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## BusyBC57 (Apr 13, 2015)

bigpearl said:


> The local council/Barangay are in the midst of building a new concrete road, while welcomed there is no access for us to exit our house with the car, save for the motorbike. We had no notification that this was going to happen, they appeared. Whilst we are happy to have this happen for an eventual easier access but no ramp/access was or will be supplied from the contractor and is up to the land owner to provide, If we call an ambulance then tough titties there is no access, too late I am dead.
> 
> Interestingly it is only concrete with no steel reinforcing and will only be 4.3 metres wide, tight to pass an oncoming vehicle with a 200 mm drop on both sides.
> 
> ...


The philippines still don't know how to mix concrete properly or use it correctly. Good luck with your new road.:car:


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## Manitoba (Jun 25, 2014)

Gary D said:


> They also do a few tens of metres then leave a gap then another stretch and so on with no rhyme or reason.


Actually there is a reason for that.

Concrete shrinks as it cures, this allows the shrinkage to be filed in with the fresh concrete placed in between the staggered pours. The majority of this shrinkage occurs in the first week or so of the concrete being poured. That is why when we pour a floor slab, typically we do sections 1,3,5,7 then go back and pour sections 2,4,6,8 later

However it should be in less than 5 m or so segments to avoid cracking.


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## Manitoba (Jun 25, 2014)

BusyBC57 said:


> The philippines still don't know how to mix concrete properly or use it correctly. Good luck with your new road.:car:


The other day I saw a small backhoe loading a concrete mixer, initially I thought that they were blending a gravel mix, this is a common way to do it, where the exact weight does not matter. You can also use a mixer to transport the gravel and then use the chute to place it exactly where you want to instead of using additional equipment and shovels. Useful for placing landscape gravel for example.

Then I noticed that they were just using a pit run ( i.e. not a screened mix of rocks but just what they get when the run through the pit with a loader and pick up everything.) and loading cement into the mixer as well.

Proper concrete for should be mixed by weight, a proper blend of coarse aggregate (rocks) and fine aggregate (sand) and adjusting for the moisture content of the aggregate as well before adding water.


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## bigpearl (Jan 24, 2016)

BusyBC57 said:


> The philippines still don't know how to mix concrete properly or use it correctly. Good luck with your new road.:car:


Yep, good luck agreed with our new concrete road with out reinforcing but have to say our concrete house is still standing after 10 years and no cracks. Perhaps it was built with plenty of cement and re bar, the owner builder was a Canadian and not silly obviously.
Ben has built a ramp with large rocks, gravel and clay and has now driven in and out a few times. Only time will tell for the new road without reinforcing and whether 15, 20, 25 or 30 Mpa, probably 20 Mpa, only vaguely good for foundations with reo.
Let's see what happens with the next typhoon and the flood waters, more fun.

Cheers, Steve.


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## Manitoba (Jun 25, 2014)

bigpearl said:


> Yep, good luck agreed with our new concrete road with out reinforcing ....


Concrete roads are typically built without reinforcing in them, especially in warm climates 

Reinforcing in concrete has two purposes. The first is because concrete is good in compression but bad in tension and so steel reinforcing is added to the beam or column to take the tension loads. A road with a proper base is all in compression so this steel is not needed.

The second is to control shrinkage cracking. In cold climates it is used to control temperature shrinkage. Where I come from the design is usually from -40 to +40, here the design range would be about +25 to perhaps +35, much less temperature shrinkage so not as needed as in Canada. Also with our freeze thaw cycles the road bed can heave due to frost and a little steel is sometimes used in case this introduces tension in the slabs.

If the road is wide enough so that there are two strips of paving along the road, short dowels can be used to ensure that any movement in a slab, due to temperature, frost or settlement, is equal on both sides of the joint and there is no bump in the middle of the road. (These are embedded on one side and then the other side is coated so that it does not bond to the concrete to allow some temperature movement, id bonded to both sides there is a risk of the steel pulling out and causing cracking art the dowels.)

Since your road is narrow, I am guessing that only a single slab is required for the width an therefore dowels are not required.

Also higher strength concrete will have more shrinkage as it cures, 20 mPa is adequate for most roads. You don't want to use too high a strength for the task because of this ( and of course cost) I have built airport tarmacs that were capable of supporting C5 Galaxy aircraft and we used 20 mPa concrete for them. (Could have used 15 mPa, but we wanted the 20 mPa for weather resistance not to carry the traffic loads.)


Sometimes


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## bigpearl (Jan 24, 2016)

Good and educational input as always Rick. Our road is poured in 2 halves, 2150mm the first pour and a week later another 2150 to finish the road width of 4300mm, narrow if one meets a truck but traversable for every day use with a 200mm drop on either side. While I have not witnessed pinning here in PH. as done in Oz and probably Canada I (though not on the ground ATM) see the boxing methods used with other road construction particularly in Cam Sur where the boxing of the first section poured included a rebate (substantial enough) to tie in the next half of the road and yes in provincial roads I have to agree that I have never seen reo installed, only on bridges and then it is serious. Our expressways to central Luzon appear to work perfectly and have no idea if steal reinforcing is used.

I do drive on the local provincial roads that were installed 10, 20 and 30 years ago with large visible crack but no up or down lifts only cracks that don't bother a vehicle nor motorbike at speed.

Back to the residents I assume in all locations in PH. Make your own way out, that is not our contract, a far cry from western norms.

BTW we are happy to finally get the concrete road but not the cr*p that came with it. As said just as well we have a motor bike to gain daily needs, neighbours are walking 2 kilometres to get a tricycle.

Cheers, Steve.


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## bigpearl (Jan 24, 2016)

Hear you Rick with what you contributed but the last pour was 160M long with not one control joint as well as flagrant disregard to the people that are paying for this road and access. Ben tells me that there was a local meeting with the Barangay Capitan last Friday who said he would address the access problem,,,,,,, no different to 3 weeks ago when he said the same thing, but some now very angry residents are or seem to be jumping on him for answers and a resolution. BTW theses long pours will crack and break up over the next 10 years but the contractor by then will be living in Lithuania or Mexico. 

Glad to see concrete but it should have been managed properly. 20 years down the track they will pull it out and do it properly,,,,, one hopes.

Cheers, Steve.


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## Gary D (Oct 28, 2013)

bigpearl said:


> Hear you Rick with what you contributed but the last pour was 160M long with not one control joint as well as flagrant disregard to the people that are paying for this road and access. Ben tells me that there was a local meeting with the Barangay Capitan last Friday who said he would address the access problem,,,,,,, no different to 3 weeks ago when he said the same thing, but some now very angry residents are or seem to be jumping on him for answers and a resolution. BTW theses long pours will crack and break up over the next 10 years but the contractor by then will be living in Lithuania or Mexico.
> 
> Glad to see concrete but it should have been managed properly. 20 years down the track they will pull it out and do it properly,,,,, one hopes.
> 
> Cheers, Steve.


If you are lucky to get a second go it will still be bodged in like last time.:frusty:


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## Zep (Jun 8, 2017)

Around here they are expanding all the one lane each way to two lanes each way.

They never remove/relocate the utility poles that were on the side of the road. Now the second lanes all have a pole down the middle of the lane. Seems real safe, especially at night

Second lanes are now for drying rice/corn and tricycle parking. haha


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## bigpearl (Jan 24, 2016)

Zep said:


> Around here they are expanding all the one lane each way to two lanes each way.
> 
> They never remove/relocate the utility poles that were on the side of the road. Now the second lanes all have a pole down the middle of the lane. Seems real safe, especially at night
> 
> Second lanes are now for drying rice/corn and tricycle parking. haha


Yep, see that here Zep,,,,, that rhymes, perhaps I need to become a poet? not bl**dy likely.
On our main roads over the years I have been watching the residents sink into an unsaleable property while the roads and traffic loom over them yet higher and higher. The steep drive ways tell all especially when a bridge is involved. It appears to be accepted for the greater good of the community. Definitely more fun in the Philippines.

Cheers, Steve.


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## bigpearl (Jan 24, 2016)

Gary D said:


> If you are lucky to get a second go it will still be bodged in like last time.:frusty:


LOL, more than likely Gary, Sh1t happens especially here as you well know. The finished work/s will be traversable cracks included but at only 4.3 metres wide with an oncoming truck? Doesn't happen often but a possibility. The 200mm (8 inch) drop off the concrete is the worry.

Cheers, Steve.


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## Manitoba (Jun 25, 2014)

bigpearl said:


> Hear you Rick with what you contributed but the last pour was 160M long with not one control joint .....


You can always cut a control joint, basically you use a concrete saw to cut a kerf about 5 cm deep and that will force the cracks to occur there. Then the kerf can be sealed to prevent water getting through and weakening the base.


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## bigpearl (Jan 24, 2016)

Manitoba said:


> You can always cut a control joint, basically you use a concrete saw to cut a kerf about 5 cm deep and that will force the cracks to occur there. Then the kerf can be sealed to prevent water getting through and weakening the base.


Yep you heard me absolutely no control with this whole contract,,,,,,, looks like the cheapest price won with flagrant disregard to us, the residents, our local Capitan appears to be chasing his tail with excuses and non occurring promises, welcome to PH.

We poured my workshop here in Oz some 16 years ago, 21M x 18M (the current one). F82 reo and 150 to 160 mm thick with stiffening beams on the perimeter and 3 crossing through the slab. Some hairline cracks recently appeared due to our drought, they are so fine and hard to see. One slab, one pour with Reinforcing done by professionals. I have also been involved i 1 and 2,000 metre square pours years ago (factories) with no probs, One of me mates still rents one, panel beating with no cracks after 10 + years.

Quality and doing the job properly is for first world countries it appears.

Sorry to say we expect quality for the bucks in OZ, probably no different to most western countries,,,,, the local road I am not in control but our reno's will be engineered to stand up to the elements and the test of time.

Cheers, Steve.


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