# The padrón



## larryzx (Jul 2, 2014)

Re Padron.

For well over 10years I have been aware of several towns on CDS which interpret the 'resident rule' somewhat flexibly and will register persons who do not qualify as requiring an EU Citizen Registration and who are not tax resident. I know holiday home owners, who spend a few weeks a year in Spain, whom the town halls have welcomed when they have registered.

In the towns which I know apply this, all those on the padron get generous discounts on their I.B.I., Plus Valir tax etc. 

Town hall have an incentive to register as many as possible as they get allowances from Regional Government for the number of citizens so registered.

In saying this I am not suggesting this same interpretation applies anywhere other to the towns where I know it does.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

larryzx said:


> Re Padron.
> 
> For well over 10years I have been aware of several towns on CDS which interpret the 'resident rule' somewhat flexibly and will register persons who do not qualify as requiring an EU Citizen Registration and who are not tax resident. I know holiday home owners, who spend a few weeks a year in Spain, whom the town halls have welcomed when they have registered.
> 
> ...



yes, unfortunately some aytos encourage non-residents to register on the padrón - even more unfortunately this can cause untold problems for these same non-residents - especially if they do eventually become resident

for instance, should they want to import a car once they move here - the date they registered on the padrón will be the date used by hacienda - so of course if they have benn supposedly 'resident' for maybe years, they won't qualify for whatever tax breaks they should get


it's possible to sort it out -but time-consuming & perhaps costly

so the correct advice is - NEVER register on the padrón unless you really do live here - by which I mean, spend more than half the year here


I read somewhere about aytos being fined for having 'ghost' residents on their lists - that's what led to the crack down by Madrid last year & residents being asked to confirm their continued presence - & the subsequent sudden drop in foreigners apparently living in Spain - many of whom had perhaps left years previously


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## larryzx (Jul 2, 2014)

xabiachica said:


> I read somewhere about aytos being fined for having 'ghost' residents on their lists - that's what led to the crack down by Madrid last year & residents being asked to confirm their continued presence - & the subsequent sudden drop in foreigners apparently living in Spain - many of whom had perhaps left years previously


In a couple of towns close to me I know that for the past few years those on the padron who have EU Citizen Registration must re-register every five years, those without that registration must do so every two years. 

I understand there was a new (National) Law which brought this about. I was told by a town hall that previously it was illegal to remove anyone from the pardon list unless they were notified and that the person acknowledged the notification. That had resulted as you say in many 'ghost residents' who had left the country or had died. Of course if one moves to another town one is supposed to register with the new town, which will then (generally) inform your previous town.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

larryzx said:


> In a couple of towns close to me I know that for the past few years those on the padron who have EU Citizen Registration must re-register every five years, those without that registration must do so every two years.
> 
> I understand there was a new (National) Law which brought this about. I was told by a town hall that previously it was illegal to remove anyone from the pardon list unless they were notified and that the person acknowledged the notification. That had resulted as you say in many 'ghost residents' who had left the country or had died. Of course if one moves to another town one is supposed to register with the new town, which will then (generally) inform your previous town.


only non-EU resident can legally be asked to re-register every 5 years - in fact they are legally required to 


the ayto can periodically ask *all *EU reisdents, including the Spanish, to pop in & confirm their presence - & many will now do this if someone who is on the padrón hasn't been in touch for some time - ours does in fact send a letter out after 5 years

this is *not re-registering* - it's simply helping them to keep their records up to date & you need take nothing with you apart from the letter & some proof of ID

they've been doing this in Jávea to my certain knowledge for at least 4 years - maybe more - I remember translating the letter for some people at least that long ago.


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## larryzx (Jul 2, 2014)

I have no specific knowledge on this, so I accept what posters with such knowledge say. However some of the info published is contrary to other information.

Just for interest I came upon this which discusses empadronamiento:- 

http://www.surinenglish.com/20100507/news/spain

The grey area stems from the fact that there seem to be differing messages between municipalities as to whether renewal is required or not.

A spokesman from the Fuengirola Town Hall says: "This is a requirement passed down to us from the INE (National Office of Statistics) and has already been enforced in other municipalities. Previously, it was only non-EU residents that had to do this, but now everyone needs to - and that includes people from the United Kingdom, Germany, Denmark, Ireland, Holland, France, Italy - anyone from the European Union."

In Mijas, it seems to be a different story. "We are yet to receive any order from the INE that we need to ask our residents to register again. We assume that what's going to happen is that each Town Hall will eventually send out notifications as and when they receive the information from Malaga. This is how it currently works with the non-EU residents," says a spokeswoman from the Foreign Residents' Department.

For its part, Benalmádena Town Hall's foreigners' team says: "There is a new law in Spain and as soon as we have the full details of what people need to do to confirm their place on the ‘padrón’, we'll publicise it. A lot of people due to the recession, for example, have moved back to their own countries, so this renewal is just to confirm numbers."

According to the National Office of Statistics (INE), the renewal period will depend on whether you originally registered with a residence certificate or with a passport. If you are a resident, you need to confirm your padrón status after the first five years and every two years if you registered using your passport.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

larryzx said:


> I have no specific knowledge on this, so I accept what posters with such knowledge say. However some of the info published is contrary to other information.
> 
> Just for interest I came upon this which discusses empadronamiento:-
> 
> ...


there has been a lot of publicity about certain town halls effectively breaking the law regarding the padrón - I'm 99% sure that Mijas was one of them - actually putting posters up in English so clearly aimed at the Brits - & that is clearly against the law, singling out one nationality - all EU citizens resident here, including the Spanish, have to be treated equally... & I understand that they didn't put posters up in other languages


it's a shame that they are using the word 'renewal' in Benalmádena - otherwise they are doing the right thing

as I say - I can't see that it's a new thing when they've been doing it here for some years


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## larryzx (Jul 2, 2014)

xabiachica said:


> as I say - I can't see that it's a new thing when they've been doing it here for some years




Just to clarify the 'new'. That article was dated 7th May 2010

I have emails dated March 2010 in which I was discussing the `new rules' with
Mijas, Fuengirola and Benalmadena. 

I have emails from Fuengirola May 2010 (in relation to persons who had registered with a passport not an EU Registration, which instruct:- 
_
"Citizens from the EU have to confirm their registration on the Padrón every 2 years. Therefore, please visit our offices from Monday to Friday, 9 am – 1 pm, provided with your Passport and NIE Certificate or a valid Residence Card.
This administrative procedure is free of charge."_


Since 2010 I have been confirming my son's padron (he is not registered on the EU Register) every 2 years, and have a diary note to do mine and every 5 years.


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## 90199 (Mar 21, 2010)

We have to visit the Padron Office every six months in order to obtain our travel discount documents.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Hepa said:


> We have to visit the Padron Office every six months in order to obtain our travel discount documents.


that's not re-registering though is it?

it's just to get the travel discount docs 

if you didn't want them, you wouldn't have to, would you?


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

larryzx said:


> Just to clarify the 'new'. That article was dated 7th May 2010
> 
> I have emails dated March 2010 in which I was discussing the `new rules' with
> Mijas, Fuengirola and Benalmadena.
> ...



Firstly, I do not believe that there is a legal requirement for EU members to have to renew/refresh their padron .

I do know that the Valencian Government (in this region at least) deleted EVERYBODY and had them all renew some years back. This was as a 'clean up' of their records as 'most' do not de-register when they leave.


@Larryzx - if your son is not registered, why is he on the padron when this is clearly wrong?


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

snikpoh said:


> Firstly, I do not believe that there is a legal requirement for EU members to have to renew/refresh their padron .
> 
> I do know that the Valencian Government (in this region at least) deleted EVERYBODY and had them all renew some years back. This was as a 'clean up' of their records as 'most' do not de-register when they leave.
> 
> ...


there is no legal requirement - I had to check this a few months ago, for official reasons


I suppose it's just possible that larryzx's son clocks up 6 months a year here without ever being here 90 days/3 months at a time


however if he _doesn't - _he needs to come off the padrón ASAP


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

larryzx said:


> Just to clarify the 'new'. That article was dated 7th May 2010
> 
> I have emails dated March 2010 in which I was discussing the `new rules' with
> Mijas, Fuengirola and Benalmadena.
> ...



not so new then - more than 4 years ago, which fits in with my experience of translating the letters around that time

& Fuengirola is correct - _*confirming*_ the registration - not renewing nor re-registering


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## larryzx (Jul 2, 2014)

snikpoh said:


> @Larryzx - if your son is not registered, why is he on the padron when this is clearly wrong?


 Because the counsellor for foreign residents (just like those in several other municipalities in the vicinity) have for years been asking (almost to point of insisting) that every one in that position, register.

As I am sure you are aware but some others may not be, the funding for towns is, one might say, strangely, based on the number registered on the padron. Those funds help to prove, schools, medical facilities, police, etc. 

The funding is not based on say the number of dwellings and commercial premises, thus in tourist areas there is a considerable chance that towns are under funded, if a large percentage of those in the town, (i.e non resident home owners and tourists) who need and use the facilities are not registered. 

I would like to post a web page but I will check first. So maybe in a later post


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

larryzx said:


> Because the counsellor for foreign residents (just like those in several other municipalities in the vicinity) have for years been asking (almost to point of insisting) that every one in that position, register.
> 
> As I am sure you are aware but some others may not be, the funding for towns is, one might say, strangely, based on the number registered on the padron. Those funds help to prove, schools, medical facilities, police, etc.
> 
> ...



you can post a link to anything other than another website or forum similar to this - you know that - as long as it's relevant, of course


the *law *is that the padrón is a list of *residents - not property owners* - whatever local town halls might encourage

a Spanish citizen who has two or more properties has be on the padrón in the town in which he is *resident - where he spends the most time

*the rules are no different for foreign property owners


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## larryzx (Jul 2, 2014)

This maybe interesting for some:-

Useful Information, Padron - RAFA Costa del Sol


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

larryzx said:


> This maybe interesting for some:-
> 
> Useful Information, Padron - RAFA Costa del Sol


sorry -just because RAFA says it doesn't mean it's correct

it's still wrong


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

> *El padrón municipal es el registro administrativo donde figuran todos los vecinos que viven o residen habitualmente en ese municipio. Sus datos son una prueba de la residencia en el municipio. Según la ley toda persona que viva en España tiene la obligación de empadronarse en el municipio donde resida.*


which translates as



> The municipal census is the administrative record showing all the people who live or are _*habitually resident*_ in the municipality. Their details are proof of residence in the town. By law every person _*living*__* in Spain*_ is obliged to register in the municipality _*where he resides*_.


my bold & italics

it says nothing about property owners who don't live in Spain

Â¿QuÃ© es el empadronamiento?


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## larryzx (Jul 2, 2014)

xabiachica said:


> sorry -just because RAFA says it doesn't mean it's correct
> 
> it's still wrong


I am sure you are right, but, maybe unsurprisingly, it does agree with Benalmadena Ayuntamiento which is where the group appear to be based, so I suspect if one lives there, that's the way it's done.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Hey, whatever the discussion is about right or wrong, in my experience in Spain, it depends on where, the day, who you see and what mood they're in. When I signed on the padron, I was told my husband had to as well. When he went to sign on, a different person told him he didnt need to - as he worked and lived part time in the UK. I also had to say that I was living in a house WITH my landlady (A tax thing I think)... but the person behind the counter, putting me on the padron was her daughter!


Jo xxx


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

jojo said:


> Hey, whatever the discussion is about right or wrong, in my experience in Spain, it depends on where, the day, who you see and what mood they're in. When I signed on the padron, I was told my husband had to as well. When he went to sign on, a different person told him he didnt need to - as he worked and lived part time in the UK. I also had to say that I was living in a house WITH my landlady (A tax thing I think)... but the person behind the counter, putting me on the padron was her daughter!
> 
> 
> Jo xxx


the person who told you that your husband couldn't be on the padrón was right


& saying that you lived with your landlady was pretty much fraudulent - & yes, more than likely in the interests if tax evasion


not that you probably realised that at the time

things are changing & tightening up - which is why Madrid is fining aytos with padrón figures which are essentially fiddled


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