# Moving to Spain



## welshmanant (Jun 8, 2010)

Hi Everyone
I am thinking of moving to spain with my family, We have given this a lot of thought and consider it to be a wise choice, My wife is the one not that sure,
So if you can help as you are the experts, Please give me your thoughts and any advice will be greatfully received
I have 3 children age from 6 - 14 , Made looking to buy business or just work out there, we are learning spanish, very slowley I might add .
Any feed back will help
Many Thanks


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Work is so hard to find out here, 20% unemployment, the cost of living is going up, there are national strikes going on ....... You maybe lucky but it wont be easy. 

As for the kids, well the younger ones maybe fine. The younger the better with regard to learning the language, but the 14yo will either have to go into an international school which costs, or will have a pretty tough time in a state school, cos at 14 they dont pick up the language as quickly, and of course the curriculum and course work will be totally different from the UK and sadly, will probably come out with no qualifications. My two were 11 and 13 when we came out and we put the eldest into an international school and the younger one into a Spanish school - my youngest is now 13 and really hates Spain, the school the language, me (?!?) etc - and thats another thing: Top Tip: Do not underestimate how much the kids can make life difficult if they dont want to move LOL!!!

I'm sorry to sound a miserable old **** !!!!! Thats the reality, but there are always exceptions and maybe come out for a visit and see what you, your wife and the kids think. Look around at the cost of shopping/living, rentals, work opportunities, schools, get chatting to other expats you may find around and prove me wrong lol! 

If you can do it tho, its a lovely way of life here. But you must make sure that you have an income and that the kids are happy!

Jo xxx


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

I'm tempted to just copy & paste what jojo said - but you don't want to read it twice

I'll just second it


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## welshmanant (Jun 8, 2010)

jojo said:


> Work is so hard to find out here, 20% unemployment, the cost of living is going up, there are national strikes going on ....... You maybe lucky but it wont be easy.
> 
> As for the kids, well the younger ones maybe fine. The younger the better with regard to learning the language, but the 14yo will either have to go into an international school which costs, or will have a pretty tough time in a state school, cos at 14 they dont pick up the language as quickly, and of course the curriculum and course work will be totally different from the UK and sadly, will probably come out with no qualifications. My two were 11 and 13 when we came out and we put the eldest into an international school and the younger one into a Spanish school - my youngest is now 13 and really hates Spain, the school the language, me (?!?) etc - and thats another thing: Top Tip: Do not underestimate how much the kids can make life difficult if they dont want to move LOL!!!
> 
> ...


Thanks for honesty jo , looks like 1 up to the wife :confused2:


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## welshmanant (Jun 8, 2010)

xabiachica said:


> I'm tempted to just copy & paste what jojo said - but you don't want to read it twice
> 
> I'll just second it


Thank you xabiachica


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

welshmanant said:


> Thanks for honesty jo , looks like 1 up to the wife :confused2:



I'm sorry - but us women always know best :eyebrows::eyebrows::eyebrows:

Jo xxx


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## nigele2 (Dec 25, 2009)

Just catching up after an absense from the humour of this place



jojo said:


> I'm sorry - but us women always know best :eyebrows::eyebrows::eyebrows:
> 
> Jo xxx


Are you sure Jo in your current state :couch2: you should be saying this??? 

welshman can you say why you have concluded it is a wise choice? Does Spain hold an attraction or is it more escaping the UK?

I agree with the advice above but there are ways to live the dream without burning your boats


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

nigele2 said:


> Just catching up after an absense from the humour of this place
> 
> 
> 
> Are you sure Jo in your current state :couch2: you should be saying this???


 Its my knee thats broken, not my brain lol and I'm a woman, we can cope with pain and still think straight!! Of course if I was a man......!!???????

jo xxx


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

nigele2 said:


> I agree with the advice above but there are ways to live the dream without burning your boats


Yes, dont give up, try to find a way, maybe commute til things settle here??? thats what my OH does - it worked a treat til I broke my flippin' leg!!!!!!!!



Jo xxx


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## welshmanant (Jun 8, 2010)

nigele2 said:


> Just catching up after an absense from the humour of this place
> 
> 
> 
> ...


My father lived out in spain for 8 years, so we visited often, but yes also want to live the dream, want to give my family more and a better life, but reading some of the replies ???? :confused2:


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

welshmanant said:


> My father lived out in spain for 8 years, so we visited often, but yes also want to live the dream, want to give my family more and a better life, but reading some of the replies ???? :confused2:



It is a better life! Your kids are too old (IMO), but there is a lot more freedom, open spaces, things to do...... The problem I've had with my two, is that actually, altho we have a pool, live near the beach, fields etc.. all mine want to do is sit in their rooms playing on their wretched computers, Ipods, PS3s thingies. They dont like the heat, dont like the beach or the pool, moan about mozzies, fed up with BBQs...... We might just as well have stayed in the UK!!! I dont know if thats just my kids being weird or if its a teenage thing (I suspect the latter????), but I wish we'd made the move when they were younger

Jo xxx


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## xicoalc (Apr 20, 2010)

hope nobody minds me putting in my two penneth!

i think if you can afford to live the dram go for it but I echo what everyone else has said, unemployment is so high. i have friends who are fluent in spanish and have qualifications and experience that would normally be highly sought after but they can't find work. having said that, life in spain is good. i am fortunate because my work is in the UK but whilst i know a lot of people who are out of work i also know a lot who will do anything. ask yourself this... would you be willing to take any job offered in order to pay for your life in spain? if you are not fussy and will try anything then there are always things cropping up work wise.

if you are the kind of person that will do literally anything offered then get over here, enjoy the weather, enjoy the relaxed lifestyle and live longer. if however you feel you want a certain standard of living and a certain standard of work then now may not be the best time.

main thing is that if you do get out to spain, DO NOT stay in holiday mode - enjoy two weeks then work and beg for jobs, too many brits treat expat life as a big long holiday and guess where they end up...on the plane back to the Uk with their tails between their legs! 

i hope whatever you choose it works well for yoU!


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## welshmanant (Jun 8, 2010)

steve_in_spain said:


> hope nobody minds me putting in my two penneth!
> 
> i think if you can afford to live the dram go for it but I echo what everyone else has said, unemployment is so high. i have friends who are fluent in spanish and have qualifications and experience that would normally be highly sought after but they can't find work. having said that, life in spain is good. i am fortunate because my work is in the UK but whilst i know a lot of people who are out of work i also know a lot who will do anything. ask yourself this... would you be willing to take any job offered in order to pay for your life in spain? if you are not fussy and will try anything then there are always things cropping up work wise.
> 
> ...


Thanks Steve, In reply to your question, I would do anything because at the end of the day I want that better life for my family 
Just thinking of buying a small business or doing what jo's husband does, but would prefer to stay out there and do whatever it takes. 
Thanks again for all your advise guys really helpfull


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## welshmanant (Jun 8, 2010)

jojo said:


> It is a better life! Your kids are too old (IMO), but there is a lot more freedom, open spaces, things to do...... The problem I've had with my two, is that actually, altho we have a pool, live near the beach, fields etc.. all mine want to do is sit in their rooms playing on their wretched computers, Ipods, PS3s thingies. They dont like the heat, dont like the beach or the pool, moan about mozzies, fed up with BBQs...... We might just as well have stayed in the UK!!! I dont know if thats just my kids being weird or if its a teenage thing (I suspect the latter????), but I wish we'd made the move when they were younger
> 
> Jo xxx


I did jo but the wife did not, so maybe women do not know best ?????


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## DanSpain (May 19, 2009)

welshmanant said:


> My father lived out in spain for 8 years, so we visited often, but yes also want to live the dream, want to give my family more and a better life, but reading some of the replies ???? :confused2:


At the moment the dream is to survive. LOL - Nothing out here at the moment. I have to go with JOJO on this one! I live out here, and i'm having a hard enough time. I have a full time job but it seems not to even be enough for me.


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## NorthernLass (Nov 9, 2009)

Hi

I personally wouldn't say it was better...just different. The weather is better usually although can be extreme in some places..extreme heat and very cold in the winter.

Just I would say is if the wife isn't keen, you're not going to get to 1st base.

It is not easy without knowing spanish for even everyday things. She will be the one who will have to deal with the school and shopping. Everything is different, the schooling (which I feel is inferior to the UK system), the mindset of people are quite rigid (eating at certain times and not going out at certain times). 

Things are getting really tough for the spanish..really tough. There are economic problems here and they are getting worse.

It will be ever so difficult for your kiddies..if you want them to have a good education, then coming to Spain will disrupt this. Kiddies coming by the age of 8 would adapt ok and learn the language so well. But any older, it will be a huge disadvantage for them.

Sorry if I am all doom and gloom about it...I don't post often and it's only when kiddes are involved that I try and give my opinion. 

Yes it's great in many ways but surely a couple of holidays to Spain is better than dragging the whole family including a wife who's not that keen and maybe kids who don't really want to leave their schools or friends.

Make a sacrifice and put up with the UK for a few more years..keep learning spanish and then when Spain gets back on its feet, come out and try it.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

NorthernLass said:


> Just I would say is if the wife isn't keen, you're not going to get to 1st base.


Can you imagine what it would be like if you did persuade her and it didnt work out???? 

Jo xxx


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## welshmanant (Jun 8, 2010)

NorthernLass said:


> Hi
> 
> I personally wouldn't say it was better...just different. The weather is better usually although can be extreme in some places..extreme heat and very cold in the winter.
> 
> ...


Thanks very much , my wife is loving this, but hey thats why I asked you guys, I know I will get honest replys Thanks :clap2::clap2::clap2:


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## nigele2 (Dec 25, 2009)

welshmanant said:


> Thanks very much , my wife is loving this, but hey thats why I asked you guys, I know I will get honest replys Thanks :clap2::clap2::clap2:


OK so now we have destroyed your dream when are you going to buy the villa/apartment to use throughout all the school/UNI hols? Villas are cheap, airfares are cheap, property might be a good investment in the long long term, and you can always retire there after you have got the kids off your hands in about 22 years 

Don't think you said what you do but you can hop back and forth to cover work while you leave the rest of the family to enjoy the "better life"


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

A couple of weeks ago Sur had a piece about wages in Spain....I suspected wage levels were lower than in the UK but I was amazed at just how low. It seems that even skilled tradespeople are lucky to take home 1000 euros a month after tax
Even professional people earn much less than in the UK.
OK, the cost of living is slightly lower but not that much. The high rate of unemployment could drive those wage rates even lower.
Then of course new arrivals are not entitled to benefits or health care and if you are self-employed you must pay a certain amount of social security each month regardless of income.
I've said before that I just don't get this 'dream in Spain' idea. Why do people fixate on Spain and not Italy, France or Germany, I wonder? Enjoying a holiday and full-time living are in no way alike...I found that out in Prague and I'd been spending considerable periods of time there for years.
Spain is great and you can live the dream if you have independent income and don't need to work, have a secure well-paid job here or in the UK and speak Spanish.
Without these dreams become nightmares.
Sorry to be blunt but that's how it is now and I fear will be for quite a while yet.


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## Guest (Jun 8, 2010)

mrypg9 said:


> Spain is great and you can live the dream if you have independent income and don't need to work, have a secure well-paid job here or in the UK and speak Spanish.
> Without these dreams become nightmares.
> Sorry to be blunt but that's how it is now and I fear will be for quite a while yet.


Hey steady on!!!  I definitely need to work, my income is purely in euros, all our clients are local, I'm autonomo and I don't really speak Spanish... I'm living the dream, I love my life here and I have more disposable income than in my entire life (even when I was on a big 6 figure salary in London!) so it IS possible but I've worked hard to get to where we are, lived sensibly the entire time and had some good luck (although I think you make your own luck)


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## lynn (Sep 25, 2008)

I wouldn't contemplate moving to Spain without the FULL support of your OH. No way. It would be akin to her having a baby without YOUR full support!! These huge changes in personal circumstances demand 100% commitment from both parties. Plus, I'd take into account the feelings of the older children. Mine were 16, 12 and 10 when we moved over last year, and I think they have coped pretty well considering, but they are all at International school following the British curriculum and my eldest will be back at Uni in another year's time, so we never expected them to actually make a permanent move here... He has the odd rant about not wanting to be here and missing his old friends etc etc but has made new friends and is trying to make the best of the situation. 
Plus my OH commutes back to the UK for work, like Jo's. It's a peculiar situation which many expats now do, as there is so little work opportunities available. So think how difficult it will be for your children if their schooling has been disrupted causing them to leave school here with no qualifications??


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## NorthernLass (Nov 9, 2009)

ShinyAndy - Yes true but bearing in mind the post is for a family,,not single people.

I would recommend those who are young (or youngish), without children to consider, have skills and have personality to make contacts and network, will be more successful in Spain (or anywhere for that matter.)

But think to yourself - would we be in this position had we children ? They take up a huge amount of your time and you both would not be able to devote all your time and energy into your business.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

ShinyAndy said:


> Hey steady on!!!  I definitely need to work, my income is purely in euros, all our clients are local, I'm autonomo and I don't really speak Spanish... I'm living the dream, I love my life here and I have more disposable income than in my entire life (even when I was on a big 6 figure salary in London!) so it IS possible but I've worked hard to get to where we are, lived sensibly the entire time and had some good luck (although I think you make your own luck)


Put yer specs on!!  I wrote 'if you have a steady well-paid job here or in the UK'. 
You come into that category. Plus you have skills that are in great demand all over the world. 
And you use the word 'sensibly'. Really, that's the most important thing. I'm pretty sure you thought everything out and planned carefully before you set foot on Spanish soil, like Natalie.. 
And unless I'm mistaken you are single, footloose and fancy-free! So only yourself to worry about - but it's great that you have no worries!


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## JBODEN (Jul 10, 2009)

mrypg9 said:


> It seems that even skilled tradespeople are lucky to take home 1000 euros a month after tax.


Where are these skilled workers? I'm looking for builders / general handymen (sorry! handypersons ) and they are quoting approx Eu 100 (range 80 - 120) per day (8 hours), cash in hand. That's Eu 2000 pm!


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

JBODEN said:


> Where are these skilled workers? I'm looking for builders / general handymen (sorry! handypersons ) and they are quoting approx Eu 100 (range 80 - 120) per day (8 hours), cash in hand. That's Eu 2000 pm!


IME British workers charge a lot more than Spanish????????

Jo xxx


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

JBODEN said:


> Where are these skilled workers? I'm looking for builders / general handymen (sorry! handypersons ) and they are quoting approx Eu 100 (range 80 - 120) per day (8 hours), cash in hand. That's Eu 2000 pm!


I'm going by an article on the rates for various jobs that was published in Sur a couple of weeks ago. You might be able to read it on the net.
If these people are working cash in hand they presumably are working on the black...
You know what you need, Jerzy.....Poles!!!!!!!


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## Guest (Jun 8, 2010)

mrypg9 said:


> I'm pretty sure you thought everything out and planned carefully before you set foot on Spanish soil
> 
> And unless I'm mistaken you are single, footloose and fancy-free! So only yourself to worry about


 Well you'd think that... unfortunately I decided whilst on holiday in November in Barbados that Spain sounded a nice place to go live, so having never been here in my life, I nipped over in February with some friends, dumped my then girlfriend (who didn't want to move) and moved over in March with £1000 in my pocket 

Oh and I've got a girlfriend and we're planning a family later this year (was supposed to happen this year but it didn't  ) so not quite so footloose and fancy free either!


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## nigele2 (Dec 25, 2009)

ShinyAndy said:


> Well you'd think that... unfortunately I decided whilst on holiday in November in Barbados that Spain sounded a nice place to go live, so having never been here in my life, I nipped over in February with some friends, dumped my then girlfriend (who didn't want to move) and moved over in March with £1000 in my pocket
> 
> Oh and I've got a girlfriend and we're planning a family later this year (was supposed to happen this year but it didn't  ) so not quite so footloose and fancy free either!


So your advice to the op is to dump wife and kids, and once settled find a senorita 

Welshman bet this message doesn't go down so well with the misses 

Only joking Mrs Welshman


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## Guest (Jun 8, 2010)

Worked for me


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## natalieml (May 9, 2010)

Andy I think you've been really lucky.

For us this has been a long term plan - we decided 8 years ago that we would move over but knew we couldn't afford to do so straight away and that we would need an income when we were there. Hence we set up our own business and have a regular monthly income coming in that will support us when we are there. Like you as long as there is internhet we can work.

I do think being a single guy (when you moved over) is a much easier decision than if you already have kids. As Jo has mentioned it can be v difficult for kids to adjust. We bought our apartment in El faro 5 years ago and have regularly taken the boys over to Spain. The little one has spent more Xmas's in Spain than in the UK.

For a family moving over with no job to go to is going to be tough. I would perhaps suggest the welshman came over first on a fact finding/job hunting mission to see how he gets on before uprooting his entire family.


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## JBODEN (Jul 10, 2009)

mrypg9 said:


> You know what you need, Jerzy.....Poles!!!!!!!


No thanks! I had a taste of their building techniques in Poland. 
Funny thing. In the mid-ninetees Poland had v.high unemployment but could you find a worker? No chance!


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## welshmanant (Jun 8, 2010)

senorita Like the idea Andy, Wife will not Shame ?????
Fact Finding do a lot.
Coming over with about £250,000 after selling house.
profession Business Manager, but will do whatever , wash cars Buy businesss
After all said and done , yes everyone has to argree
Thanks for all your help guys
Love 
Antony (Welshmanant)


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

welshmanant said:


> senorita Like the idea Andy, Wife will not Shame ?????
> Fact Finding do a lot.
> Coming over with about £250,000 after selling house.
> profession Business Manager, but will do whatever , wash cars Buy businesss
> ...


Most people here would strongly advise you against selling your UK house. It's more prudent to rent until you are well-established and maybe even longer.
Property here may be cheaper to buy now...but that's because it's almost impossible to sell and if you are unsuccessful on the job front you could find yourself in serious difficulties with no home to return to in the UK.
The hard facts are that this recession is Europe-wide. Businesses generally are not doing well. There are hundreds of thousands of people across Spain and especially in the immigrant areas who are competing to wash cars, run businesses, be property maintenance people etc.
Jo is right - it's easy to see the negatives of the UK when the sun is shining and the economy is booming in Spain. But the truth is that despite the downsides it is a gentler, kinder country where the much-maligned state will look after you when you are in need. Spain relies more on family networks for survival - probably the reason why high unemployment hasn't led to riots by desperate people.
There are areas where the outlook isn't gloom and doom - Marbella for example will always survive because there is real money there - people who can afford to lose a £million or so.
But most British immigrants here are not wealthy and many are now finding they have minimal disposable income. We've all heard of pensioners cleaning houses and pools to make ends meet.
That doesn't sound like a dream to me.....
Stay put for now, make plans and make a fact-finding trip. Natalie has got it right, imo. 
Moving country is a really big deal and it's easy to overlook just how many factors you have to carefully consider. Like some other posters, we've done it more than once. It really is life-changing in more ways than the obvious.


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## welshmanant (Jun 8, 2010)

Thanks mrypg
For your honest comments , some hard decisons have to be made ????


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## thrax (Nov 13, 2008)

Renting first is not only a must, for some it is a long term solution because if, after the standard 11 month contract, you realise the location is not for you, you just move somewhere else. Almost impossible to do at the moment with the housing market still refusing the inevitable crash. My wife's parents have lived in southern Spain for 7 years and built their own 'dream' villa. After this winter's rains they have had to pay out around 15,000 euros for repairs not covered by their insurance. They would sell now if they could and then rent until they die. They feel that for their situation, building and owning their own home was the only mistake they made. They still love Spain and would not return to the UK for anything. My wife and I (and our little boy) are moving over on 1st September - Frigiliana area...


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## Guest (Jun 9, 2010)

welshmanant said:


> profession Business Manager, but will do whatever , wash cars Buy businesss


You see that seems to me to be the absolute worst thing to do.. Spain is awash with people that used to be a professional and now think that they can make a living being a painter/window cleaner/handyman/bar owner/estate agent.. could you do that in the UK and live, probably not so why think it would work somewhere else - especially when, like I said, the place is overrun with people in the same boat.

There are still jobs for professionals out here even within the expat market. In the last week I've met a real estate guy that was looking for an experienced office assistant, an investment company looking for a sales team/managers, a financial company looking for IFA types, an exhibit/fayre type company looking for people to help sell advertising. The Sur was full of jobs, ok mainly sales, this week but they want professionals with experience


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

welshmanant said:


> Thanks mrypg
> For your honest comments , some hard decisons have to be made ????


Well...you can't really come to a decision until you've considered all the factors, looked at the pros and cons and to do that you need to read a lot, think a lot and come and see for yourself. You need to look at different regions too.
And you can have fun doing that.
It took Natalie eight years of careful planning and frequent visiting before she and her family decided the time was right to make the move.
Another indicator of how bad things are for some people....in our postbox today was a rather pitiful slip of paper advertising 'babysitting, ironing, sewing etc.' at 'very reasonable rates'.
It's bad enough doing my own ironing on a hot day ...as for having to do other people's to buy the family groceries And I'm too mean to even consider using those services, however reasonable the charges.
I think we ought to consider carefully just what we mean by 'living the dream'. 
Most of your time here is spent doing exactly what you do in the UK. Yes, for half the year it's sunny and hot...and the other half can be extremely wet, cold and miserable. So is the 'dream' just about sunshine for six months? 
We came here from Prague because of the climate and the low standard of living which got to us in the end. Why Spain? Chiefly because my son has property five minutes from our house. We could just as easily be in Italy or Southern France, really. We didn't do much planning apart from the obvious -removal firm, budget - but we have no dependants and aren't looking for work. 
But for a family with young children....no way would we consider moving anywhere outside the UK for the foreseeable future unless we had secure, well-paid jobs lined up.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

ShinyAndy said:


> You see that seems to me to be the absolute worst thing to do.. Spain is awash with people that used to be a professional and now think that they can make a living being a painter/window cleaner/handyman/bar owner/estate agent.. could you do that in the UK and live, probably not so why think it would work somewhere else - especially when, like I said, the place is overrun with people in the same boat.
> 
> There are still jobs for professionals out here even within the expat market. In the last week I've met a real estate guy that was looking for an experienced office assistant, an investment company looking for a sales team/managers, a financial company looking for IFA types, an exhibit/fayre type company looking for people to help sell advertising. The Sur was full of jobs, ok mainly sales, this week but they want professionals with experience


Are the wages good enough to support a family, do you think? Are most of those jobs commission based? And how secure are they?
I agree that there are plenty of situations vacant but I'd estimate an awful lot are Macjobs. Not a temptation to up sticks and move if you have a family.
And I remember you warning Natalie that there was a lot of eager competition in the IT sector.
TBH, the only sector of the economy that seems to be thriving is the euphemistically named 'Adult Relaxation' sector...although I'm not so sure even about that as a local 'gentlemen's club' has just closed and the bordello down the road doesn't have many cars parked outside.
Maybe the clients use bikes, taxis or walk??


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## Guest (Jun 9, 2010)

My point was that why should a move to Spain result in you thinking that you need to go change career, first thing you should do is see if you can do the same thing you are already doing


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## xicoalc (Apr 20, 2010)

one thing worth adding though, people (including me) have said a lot about the negatives of living in spain, but truthfully if you can find a way of supporting yourself then this is a great place to live. People talk about "living the dream" in a very negative way...I work 10-6 (english 9-5) with a few later evenings so yes I do pretty much the same as I did in the UK but lets look at the positives...

Ok so spain can be cold and wet in the winter (the last winter was terrible, we even had electricity pylons blow down and 2 weeks with no power or water). its cold and its miserable quite often during the winter. the administration of being in spain and bureaucracy is a nightmare, and i have more official bits of paper for this that an the other than i ever had in the uk.... BUT...

every day I wake up, open the shutters and look out over the sea, i live in a wonderful country where the people are warm and friendly (mostly). I have made some truly wonderful friends, and not a day passes by when people arent popping by or bumping into us in the street..

the climate is generally a thousand times better than the UK, even in winter there are some nice days and even some warm ones, the cost of living is increasing but then again if you shop around, go to markets, etc it is still cheaper than the UK..social life is amazing, we have brilliant healthcare a great education sytem, wonderful countryside, some breathtaking sights. 

In warm evenings we eat outside in the garden, or share a paella along the seafront with friends. I will happily walk to the taxi rank at 4am after a night out without fearing for my safety. 

i think one thing that you do have to remember is this...in the UK life is about keeping up with the neighbours - i drove flash cars, always had the latest technology etc etc. i earned very well. When I came to spain I had to employ someone to do many of my jobs at work and as a consequence took a 60% pay cut (my choice) but i live a wonderful life - maybe think twice before spending money now, but what's more important - glits and glammer, or a healthy relaxed life in one of the lovliest countries in the world...

if you can find a job, and are wiling to make cut backs do it - especially if you have kids - the UK is going downhill and look how many graduates are out of work - id rather be skint in spain than skint in england!


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

steve_in_spain said:


> if you can find a job, and are wiling to make cut backs do it - especially if you have kids - the UK is going downhill and look how many graduates are out of work - id rather be skint in spain than skint in england!


Whilst agreeing with most of what you have said, I'm not too sure about this last paragraph.
The reason that so many graduates are out of work in the UK is frankly that many are simply unemployable. There are degrees and ...degrees. And when 40% of the population have a 'degree' the question of value becomes paramount.
When we advertised for vacancies we had applications from graduates which betrayed a lack of ability to even use basic English grammatically and coherently. A friend will give interviews to people who respond to her adverts only to those who have good degrees from 'good' Universities, i.e. the Russell Group.
Some universities now have to put fresher students through basic numeracy and literacy courses.
The last Government planned to send 50% of young people to University. This one will no doubt continue the policy. Dumbed-down degrees follow logically on dumbed-down A-levels.
The situation for young people in Spain is dire - over 40% of young people not in work, education or training. So your children's future may be no better here.
Frankly, I'd rather not be skint anywhere I'm not sure a bit of sunshine makes up for doing a boring low-paid job and worrying about putting food on the table.
At the end of the day, in the UK there's a welfare safety net if you have already paid your contributions.
How long do you have to work before you qualify for benefits here?


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## lynn (Sep 25, 2008)

mrypg9 said:


> Whilst agreeing with most of what you have said, I'm not too sure about this last paragraph.
> The reason that so many graduates are out of work in the UK is frankly that many are simply unemployable. There are degrees and ...degrees. And when 40% of the population have a 'degree' the question of value becomes paramount.
> When we advertised for vacancies we had applications from graduates which betrayed a lack of ability to even use basic English grammatically and coherently. A friend will give interviews to people who respond to her adverts only to those who have good degrees from 'good' Universities, i.e. the Russell Group.
> Some universities now have to put fresher students through basic numeracy and literacy courses.
> ...


Mary,
I agree a lot with what you have said here. I don't particularly want my children to stay in Spain when they finish their education. If they do well enough to go to a 'good' UK university to study something that will get them into a good career after, then so be it, but if they only get mediocre grades then I think they would be better getting into the workplace, and that can be anywhere in the world with opportunities...
And I second the opinion that being in the sunshine for 6 months of the year does *not *make up for being in a boring low paid job!!


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## xicoalc (Apr 20, 2010)

lynn said:


> Mary,
> I agree a lot with what you have said here. I don't particularly want my children to stay in Spain when they finish their education. If they do well enough to go to a 'good' UK university to study something that will get them into a good career after, then so be it, but if they only get mediocre grades then I think they would be better getting into the workplace, and that can be anywhere in the world with opportunities...
> And I second the opinion that being in the sunshine for 6 months of the year does *not *make up for being in a boring low paid job!!


just to clarify my point, i was not saying come to spain, bit of sushine but never mind if you are skint - it was a light hearted comment saying if i had to take a boring job anywhere i would rather take it in spain!


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

lynn said:


> Mary,
> I agree a lot with what you have said here. I don't particularly want my children to stay in Spain when they finish their education. If they do well enough to go to a 'good' UK university to study something that will get them into a good career after, then so be it, but if they only get mediocre grades then I think they would be better getting into the workplace, and that can be anywhere in the world with opportunities...
> And I second the opinion that being in the sunshine for 6 months of the year does *not *make up for being in a boring low paid job!!


Oh yes, University is not the be-all and end-all. My son did a sandwich course in Computer Science (I think that's what the course was called) at London Uni and his working year was with a major bank. At the end of the year he was offered a permanent post and was told by his Manager not to bother with a degree as it would not increase his competence. I was appalled...but lack of 'BSc' after his name has not prevented him from having a lucrative and satisfying career in IT/finance.
And you are so right about the world now being the workplace...if I were twenty-one again My degrees are in Modern Languages and when I think where I could go now with those qualifications but most people didn't think of working abroad until the last decade.
Translating/interpreting and teaching in the UK were the chief options.
As your children are studying in Spain I presume they will do the Spanish equivalent of the International Baccalaureat? (Not sure of spelling).
Many private/public schools in the UK prefer this to A Levels as it is of much better value and gets much more respect from employers, universities etc. One of my grandsons has just completed his and is working at a ski chalet in Switzerland to help him make up his mind whether the best way forward for him would be to go to University....or not. The other is in his last year and from what I have seen of the coursework it is much more rigorous and demanding than A Levels.
And in many ways, it must be worse to be in a boring, low-paid dead-end job in the sun than in a temperate climate. You're slaving away while everyone else is by the pool/on the beach...


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

steve_in_spain said:


> just to clarify my point, i was not saying come to spain, bit of sushine but never mind if you are skint - it was a light hearted comment saying if i had to take a boring job anywhere i would rather take it in spain!


Point taken, Steve!! Altho' I don't agree with you about boring jobs
I'm not quite sure why but if I had to do a boring job I think I'd rather do it in Germany...in Berlin, to be precise.
I love Berlin....one of my favourite 'world' cities, along with London (of course), New York, Barcelona and Glasgow....yes, Glasgow!!!
Much-maligned place by people who don't really know it and are put off by reputation.
One of my all-time favourite restaurants there - Sarti Fratelli, West Nile Street. Best Italian restaurant in the UK imo!


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## janette8788 (Feb 5, 2008)

i have just moved back from spain before xmas, after two years living there things are very hard and the chances of finding work are almost zero, sorry to be so negative but better to know before u go, good luck whatever u decide


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## thrax (Nov 13, 2008)

We are moving out to Spain soon, I have a private income (that sounds so much better than pension, don't you think?) but although we could get by on that we will be working on our own business. It won't make shedloads of money but then we don't want that. We just want to be happy and have food on the table. If things get really bad we'll put a cover over the table and live underneath it...


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

thrax said:


> We are moving out to Spain soon, I have a private income (that sounds so much better than pension, don't you think?) but although we could get by on that we will be working on our own business. It won't make shedloads of money but then we don't want that. We just want to be happy and have food on the table. If things get really bad we'll put a cover over the table and live underneath it...


Points are 1) you have a private income from pension, investments, money in the bank/under the mattress ...plus your own business and 2) you have realistic expectations.
Recipe for extreme contentment. What can go wrong?
But totally unlike someone with no job, no income from whatever source, dependants and hopes of making a dream holiday into a dream life.


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