# SRRV and illegalities.



## bigpearl (Jan 24, 2016)

I am creating a new tread for one of our fellow members.

Taking up space while within a topic and slides off topic is not needed so for Gorn and readers here's a new thread immediately related to one of our new members and a couple of running posts that oft times go off topic.

Buying/leasing land whether bare or house and lot for a westerner is fraught with dangers always and though all try dearly to protect themselves has to be by the law of the land and within this forum respected and by constitution followed. Filipino law has to be adhered to and then some. Personally I wish the Australia government would/could adopt a similar approach instead of selling everything.
Trying to buck the system through constitutional rights/laws and loopholes within could inevitably be short lived if not adhered to correctly.

My contributions within this site and others are based on my experience/s with the PRA and the proffered SRRV options and many invaluable contributions from fellow members.

What are your thoughts and what have you learned with regards to being an outsider (as we are) with your entitlements if you go the SRRV route? Don't forget if you have cash to splash you (75K US) can go the SRIV route, another option that I looked into.

I suppose the question from me and potentially other readers is what are you trying to achieve given from a previous question "have you ever been here" and my next suggestion if not perhaps look at other Asian countries like Laos or Cambodia if Asian countries are up your alley where your dollars may go further if on a budget and their visa requirements that may be harsher or more preferable to your needs.

Anyway I'm sure one of our moderators and other members will take up my rant or slap me for being difficult ar*e.

Cheers, Steve.


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## Gorn (Aug 30, 2019)

I will just continue this new thread where the old one left off:


bigpearl said:


> I assumed because I had the lease I could get my bond back from the PRA


Thanks to Steve's experience, I and others reading this know what not to do: fund a house and lot purchase, set up a lease, and then get an SRRV.

Now the question is what you _can _do, for example fund a house and lot purchase, then get an SRRV, and then set up a lease.


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## bigpearl (Jan 24, 2016)

Gorn said:


> I will just continue this new thread where the old one left off:
> 
> 
> Thanks to Steve's experience, I and others reading this know what not to do.
> ...


So now I have your attention.

Have you ever been to PH. before?
Are you gay or have a lady in tow. Married or single? All relevant questions for your situation with the PRA. and getting a measly 10K back. Remember I asked your situation before with no info supplied.
Regardless Gay with a partner or a nobby on the title if this is the path you choose to ride do it very carefully, a lady in tow with what you are trying to do? She will be the winner no different to my partner.

Perhaps answer my first question and we will move on. Have you ever been to the Philippines? or simply a partner online feeding you?

Let's open up here mate, you ask some pertinent questions and are doing your research though slow and we have no idea your circumstances lest why you ask your questions and all over what appears to be US 10K. Definitely a small amount by western standards compared to what comes next. LOL, and there after.

Cheers, Steve.


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## Gorn (Aug 30, 2019)

bigpearl said:


> getting a measly 10K back.


It's funny you keep repeating that, because that's exactly what you wanted to do:



bigpearl said:


> I assumed because I had the lease I could get my bond back from the PRA


Let's keep the topic to that: How to get one's bond back from the PRA.

From Steve's experience, we know how you can't. 

From the law, we know how you can: First SRRV, then purchase a condo or get a long-term lease. 

My only question, and it's a simple one, and it's directed to anyone here, is regards to the timing: first fund a house and lot purchase, then get an SRRV, and then set up a lease. It seems like PRA would allow this, though I don't want to make any assumptions, hence my query here. Based on the lack of answers, it's quite possible this is only something an attorney would be able to answer, which will be my next step.


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## Gazzalee (Jun 29, 2019)

Gorm,
A couple of things worth pointing out before you set things in motion is the Special Retirement and Residence Visa is not an automatically issued ticket, I did hear of one applicant that was rejected and would suspect there are others. First and foremost the SRRV was setup as a ticket allowing retirees to live in the Philippines. By issuing that visa to _deserving_ foreigners it brings in foreign capitol, simple, example the much discussed bank deposit as well as the money spent on living expenses by these foreigners, $1K monthly income required. I don't think the SRRV was intended as an investment platform or tool, though some advantage can be made within the rules of the program. As advised by Steve, it would be best to address your issues and circumstances directly to the PRA folks if you want accurate and correct advise. It's your $10K!
One question I've yet to figure out is why do you want to fix the horse in front of the cart?


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## Gary D (Oct 28, 2013)

And a quick note about leases, they aren't cast iron. It has been know for a lease to be broken once a leasy has built a substantial property of the land. Also the family code prevents someone leasing from their partner as the family code treats both parties as a single entity, you can't lease from yourself. Oh and the dummy corporation law stops you forming a corporation to aquire land. And finally all lawyers in the Philippines are shisters and will give you a piece of paper saying whatever you want to hear.....and you can't sue them.


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## M.C.A. (Feb 24, 2013)

Gorn, do you need to live in Manila or a large city and does your other half have access to family land or family squatted land? if so there could be a spot for you and so put up a modest house on the family plot and you won't have to keep messing with legalities and I don't know about you but I'll avoid any governmental agency or professional here if I can.

Excellent advice from Gary you don't want to mess with Lawyers or any professionals in the Philippines and isn't that the reason why we come here to get away form all these silly contracts, you won't find me signing any contracts or leases and for sure I won't put up any deposits either, we need to stop playing by Western rules unless your blessed with endless cash and then God Bless you do it by the book, what's the worst that can happen to you... you'll have to move and no contracts to tie you down or people to report you to the Bureau of Immigration.

With all that said I know absolutely nothing about your situation but LOL what the heck I threw that out there, work smarter not harder spend less cash. Gorn I'm a squatter on family squatted land since the 40's but us since the 90's.


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## bigpearl (Jan 24, 2016)

M.C.A. said:


> Gorn, do you need to live in Manila or a large city and does your other half have access to family land or family squatted land? if so there could be a spot for you and so put up a modest house on the family plot and you won't have to keep messing with legalities and I don't know about you but I'll avoid any governmental agency or professional here if I can.
> 
> Excellent advice from Gary you don't want to mess with Lawyers or any professionals in the Philippines and isn't that the reason why we come here to get away form all these silly contracts, you won't find me signing any contracts or leases and for sure I won't put up any deposits either, we need to stop playing by Western rules unless your blessed with endless cash and then God Bless you do it by the book, what's the worst that can happen to you... you'll have to move and no contracts to tie you down or people to report you to the Bureau of Immigration.
> 
> With all that said I know absolutely nothing about your situation but LOL what the heck I through that out there, work smarter not harder spend less cash. Gorn I'm a squatter on family squatted land since the 40's but us since the 90's.


Hear you Mark, as always a different slant/perspective and oft times wise to things many times overlooked. Unfortunately for us all of Bens family live on 50 to 60M2 blocks and yes squatters, all house no dirt or garden, concrete jungle. We did think about buying in the titled subdivision in the rear of the outlaws but at 800K for a 160M2 lot? Gone off track, soz.

I think good advice has not only been given by myself but others here with relation to the way Gorn should go about securing his needs, go straight to the horses mouth and ask. As we did after the fact and proffered to Gorn by myself in other threads, we purchased and then found out the title and lease had to be changed to the wording/s required by the PRA and also the fact that to do this required a US 50K deposit to be convertible and not 10 or 20K; this info was offered up and still questioned, and back to the horses mouth?

You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink.

If Gorn (to answer the questions) does buy/lease property prior to applying for his intended SRRV status then should include the wording I supplied to him by me (because he couldn't find it) by the PRA with regards to conversions of deposits and sincerely look into the 10 or 50K scenario.
If SRRV status is accomplished prior to purchase and or lease then simply follow their protocols, again look into the minimum deposit that is convertible.
It is not difficult to chat with the PRA team and answers will come, for us, as another mentioned put the cart before the horse and simply offer my experiences now and the simple path I/we will take, hey it's only 10K as another member keeps reminding me that Wants to save that 10K but for many that is a lot or to others small change, as said I am not going through another 18 months of title changes/new lease etc. and will gladly lock up 10K once I decide to draw a pension from my superannuation, could be 5 or 10years.
The info has been given and only from my experience and situation, now the major participant that this thread was created for needs to do the hard yards and find out the legalities that suit/benefit his/her needs/situation. As one of our very astute members advised.....

"And a quick note about leases, they aren't cast iron. It has been know for a lease to be broken once a leasy has built a substantial property of the land. Also the family code prevents someone leasing from their partner as the family code treats both parties as a single entity, you can't lease from yourself. Oh and the dummy corporation law stops you forming a corporation to aquire land. And finally all lawyers in the Philippines are shisters and will give you a piece of paper saying whatever you want to hear.....and you can't sue them."

A broken record perhaps but as said over and over: Find out the answers yourself instead of criticising/questioning information supplied by participants that you initially asked help/advice from and were supplied, if worried about finances as you Gorn appears to be over "a measly 10K" yes measly then perhaps the Philippines is out of your league?
And as asked have you ever visited this our adopted country? Seems not. Good info by fellow members and good luck to you Gorn finding your way.

Cheers, Steve.


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## Gorn (Aug 30, 2019)

Gazzalee said:


> $1K monthly income required


Actually that's not required, but if you can prove that income then your deposit is $10k instead of $20k. 

Here's another question: is it any monthly income, for example investment income, or do they only accept "Pension Documents"?



Gazzalee said:


> One question I've yet to figure out is why do you want to fix the horse in front of the cart?


Good question, and the answer is because I've seen a few properties I'd be interested in funding a purchase for now.

That being said, it's clear that a SRRV is not guaranteed, and using your $10k or $20k or $50k via lease is not guaranteed.



Gary D said:


> the family code prevents someone leasing from their partner as the family code treats both parties as a single entity, you can't lease from yourself.


And yet what you just described happens all the time in the Philippines, so much that any lawyer is familiar with the process, even the point of recommending it.

The question here is, are there any other PRA restrictions on who you lease from? Would unmarried partners, like in Steve's case, be considered scamming the system by the PRA? Or is it strictly regarding legal marriages only?



M.C.A. said:


> I won't put up any deposits


What's your visa status? Permanent resident or immigrant visas require a deposit (13a more of an emotional deposit  



bigpearl said:


> to do this required a US 50K deposit to be convertible and not 10 or 20K


Again, read the law: $50k is only required if under age 50, $20k if over 50 and $10k if over 50 with pension.


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## Manitoba (Jun 25, 2014)

Gorn said:


> ....
> Here's another question: is it any monthly income, for example investment income, or do they only accept "Pension Documents"?
> 
> 
> ....


You have to have a lifetime guaranteed pension, I have investments that will pay out a lot more than the minimum, especially when combined with my pension (not quite enough to qualify) that will kick in next year.

They would not consider investment income as that is not guaranteed.


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## Manitoba (Jun 25, 2014)

A comment on the anti dummy laws.

If you are found to have used a dummy set up to acquire land then the transaction is voided at the time of the transaction.

My understanding is that the property will revert to the original owner, then you will have to fight to get your money if he doesn't have it or has hidden it somehow.

And lots of lawyers will produce the necessary documents to allow you to buy the property, then disappear or be somehow untouchable after the scheme falls through.

Personally I'd stick to keeping it completely above board and legal, no attempts at work around or gaming the system.

When you go to court, often the decision criteria is not what the law says, but who has the most money, you the rich foreigner or some poor local Philippine who was taken advantage of by the fast talking foreigner?

There are several examples on other threads of this, especially in regards to traffic accidents.


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## bigpearl (Jan 24, 2016)

Gorn, while you agree, question and disagree with input from members here, that is what a forum is about and perfectly acceptable. Unfortunately we appear to be going around in circles and failing to provide the answers you want to hear especially with no given info with regards to your particular circumstances so as you can see the info is broad and purely based on individual contributors experiences, I am not an attorney and as suggested twice now from memory in previous posts that you should do yourself a simple courtesy by contacting the PRA themselves to have your questions answered accurately so you fall within the law.
My case with regards to owning buildings and leases on land falls outside the norm as our relationship is not recognised in the Philippines thus my better half becomes a seperate entity, who knows things may change in the next 10 or 20 years and deal with it we will. At the end of the day the lease is there to protect myself in case of separation but at the end of the day my last will and testament leaves the property/lease null and voided by my sister (executor) providing I see out another perhaps 20 years/natural death etc.
As suggested spend your energies with the PRA as you are obviously achieving nothing on this forum, if you do manage to secure your answers from them then come back and share.

Cheers, Steve.


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## M.C.A. (Feb 24, 2013)

I didn't have knowledge of an expat forum when I first came here so I didn't really understand many immigration issues and even if tried to ask the PBI or PRA it still wouldn't guarantee that I'll come out unscathed because their time is limited and so many applicants so these forums are very helpful if the information is taken if not then really what exactly are you going to accomplish??? Oh well... 

I cut back on my drinking but on this day after getting soaked for 14,000 for not being aware that when I left for 3 years I'd have to pay some hefty fees for not performing my annual check in I was ready for a beer with my pizza before we headed home at an American chain... Denied it was a school day and a whole bunch of school kids in another adjacent room.


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## Manitoba (Jun 25, 2014)

M.C.A. said:


> ..... even if tried to ask the PBI or PRA it still wouldn't guarantee that I'll come out unscathed because their time is limited and so many applicants......


You are talking technical bureaucratic issues in English with someone who is not a native English speaker. Lots of room fro misunderstandings to arise.


We are in a Asian country where the concept of "face" important. They will rather give you bad information than admit that they don't know. If you ask a local for directions, wait 5 minutes and ask another, continue until two give you directions that will end up at the same place. 

In every bureaucratic organization there are people who are not up on the latest changes in their rule books, there are people who will try to impose what they think it should be instead of what it is.

Best is to always solicit multiple opinions on what really is the rules, then look them up your self and get some sort of convergent validity on what the rules really are in practice.


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## bigpearl (Jan 24, 2016)

Danman said:


> While it is good to have a forum to give advice and gain knowledge from what other members have experienced, many people have different experiences with visa applications, in the end if you are seeking a visa go straight to Immigration they will set you straight and they are very helpful, I do not what started this topic but I will just say if someone is asking advise and the advise that is given back to that person is not taken, just let it go, as I have learnt not all people will take advise they have to learn the hard way...such is life


Well said Dan but I will add as I do (can't help myself, sorry) you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink nor see the trees for the forest. I do include myself in the previous two scenarios as I often make mistakes/fail to listen/ read incorrectly but inevitably find the correct answers with dedicated research and yes an occasionally apology to supporting members.

Info/experiences and ideas are generally sought on forums whether Whirlpool or expat sites or the like as a precursor to the hard yards to obtain the relevant/correct info. Though generalising contributors offer their not legal opinion/s and it is certainly up to the orchestrator to do his or her due diligence instead of fighting, perhaps the status quo.

Slap me but OMO.

Cheers, Steve.


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## bigpearl (Jan 24, 2016)

My bad, slapped again, thank god someone is in the drivers seat. Thanks Mark for your wisdom.

Cheers, Steve.


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## M.C.A. (Feb 24, 2013)

Trying to keep this thread open because so many expats go the SRRV route Lol just need it to get back on track. 

If there's any questions or if anyone doesn't like an answer for sure check with the PRA https://pra.gov.ph but so many here have gone through this experience and several members do have the SRRV Visa so there inputs are valuable good or bad take with a grain of salt we aren't Immigration Officers and always check with the Philippine Retirement Authority.


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## Tiz (Jan 23, 2016)

Has anybody here gone the SRRV route after working here legally for any length of time?

I note in a few places its mentioned that deposited funds must be remitted from overseas.

I've been working here in PH for 5 years, 9(g) visa, so have more than enough savings here already to cover the deposit.

It would be a bit silly if I had to first send USD20K out of the Philippines and then remit it back in, if/when I decide to retire here.


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## Manitoba (Jun 25, 2014)

Tiz said:


> .....
> 
> It would be a bit silly if I had to first send USD20K out of the Philippines and then remit it back in, if/when I decide to retire here.


Did you mean to say, It would be _pretty typical of the Philippines_ if I had to first send USD20K out of the Philippines and then remit it back in, if/when I decide to retire here.

I actually think that you would have to do that. When the deposit reaches the bank here I am sure that there is a box on the form they use that the funds originated outside the Philippines.

When I wired my deposit into the country the incoming deposit fees were deducted, $US 25 if I remember. I paid this by cash and was asked if I had brought the money into the country with me or not, since I had only been here a couple days it was obvious that I had not acquired US currency, in small denominations, in the Philippines but they did ask.


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## HondaGuy (Aug 6, 2012)

Just a reminder, PHP cant be transferred OUT of the Philippines. You have to convert PHP to USD, CAD, EURO, GBP or something else first and then you can transfer that out of the country.


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## Gazzalee (Jun 29, 2019)

They do want the deposit to be money brought in from overseas and recorded as such. When I first went to the bank to set up my deposit I tried to give them $100 bills, this was unacceptable for this type of fixed deposit, so wrote out a personal check on my US Bank account, this was fine, fee $5. 
The PRA as a government run business wants to show it is brings foreign capitol into the country so that is why they insist on money transferred into the country from overseas. Saw an article somewhere that claimed the PRA was second only to the OFWs for bringing capitol into the country. Maybe, in addition to the deposit and PRA fee how much does the average foreigner bring in and spend monthly just as living expenses??


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## Tiz (Jan 23, 2016)

Thanks for the answers... i thought as much.

I guess its not a huge deal. If I eventually go the SRRV route, it just means bringing in the original deposit and then use the existing PH based savings for all living expenses until they run out...


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## ignorant (Dec 27, 2019)

Absolutely right...I already tried it


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## 68whiskeymike6 (Jan 10, 2019)

A year ago, my dad wanted to buy a home here at his old age. I told him, when you and mom meet Jesus, who is going to inherit that home? I'm not a Filipino citizen and my siblings who meet dual citizenship status here don't want to live in the Philippines. So I told him it's not a good idea. Better to rent. Now , if my siblings were to cosign... that is a different ball game and I'd be down with that.


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## 68whiskeymike6 (Jan 10, 2019)

Gazzalee said:


> Gorm,
> A couple of things worth pointing out before you set things in motion is the Special Retirement and Residence Visa is not an automatically issued ticket, I did hear of one applicant that was rejected and would suspect there are others. First and foremost the SRRV was setup as a ticket allowing retirees to live in the Philippines. By issuing that visa to _deserving_ foreigners it brings in foreign capitol, simple, example the much discussed bank deposit as well as the money spent on living expenses by these foreigners, $1K monthly income required. I don't think the SRRV was intended as an investment platform or tool, though some advantage can be made within the rules of the program. As advised by Steve, it would be best to address your issues and circumstances directly to the PRA folks if you want accurate and correct advise. It's your $10K!
> One question I've yet to figure out is why do you want to fix the horse in front of the cart?



I didn't get rejected. I withdrew my application. After waiting 3 + months for my application approval,, I decided to invest that money in the U.S. instead. Basically , I lost patience and chickened out. I was hoping to take up nursing at Holy Angel University and brought my school transcripts and local police report from the U.S. So for a while, I was serious about that. I was a nurse in the U.S. I think I will take up nursing school in the U.S. whenever I get back.


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