# We are thinking of a move to spain any advice please.



## Barriej (Jul 23, 2012)

As this is my first post, please be gentle with me... 
I’ve been reading through the various threads and have got some good information but my question is a bit specific.

My wife and I have been regular visitors to the costa blanca region for some time, having family who moved out about 12 years ago.

At the moment my wife runs a small business selling cards, gifts, jewellery, rocks, fossils, figurines, candles, incense and oils. 
This business’s lease is about to expire and we have been talking with my wife’s father about a move to his part of the world and opening or buying a compatible business to provide a service to both expats and tourists. 
For my sins I’m a fully qualified apprentice trained jeweller with over 30 year of experience making one off’s for film, TV and the odd Royal. 
And I’m a really good fast and cheap repairing jeweller, polisher and stone setter.. 
Can also do watch batteries and straps as well..

So thats us.

What I want to know is, having visited a few card shops on the costa, is it worth buying a shop and adding our own ‘unique’ selling points? 

I would be happy to hear both good and bad advice with regard to moving over.
We have not decided that we will move whatever advise we get, we want as much help as possible to make an informed decision.

Our children are grown up and will not come with us (I hope  We would leave most of the cash raised from the sale of our home here in the bank (or in premium bonds) just in case we cant make it work. 
We can stay with my wife’s dad for a couple of months while we sort our selves out and we would rent a flat until we are settled. 
Business wise we are open to being located anywhere from Calpe to Torrevieja as long as we can serve mainly expats with passing tourist trade. 

Your advice and suggestions please...


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Welcome to the forum!! 

It would be costly and risky to set up that sort of a business in spain right now, the paperwork involved would be mindblowing. I guess the best thing to do would be to not only visit some of these places, but to also find the owners and discuss the pros and cons with them. Then work out your costs, your overheads and you potential profit to see if its viable

If you sell your home in the UK, make sure that you have a "plan B" and if all goes wrong you can simply return! - So maybe rent???

Jo xxxx


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## Barriej (Jul 23, 2012)

jojo said:


> Welcome to the forum!!
> 
> It would be costly and risky to set up that sort of a business in spain right now, the paperwork involved would be mindblowing. I guess the best thing to do would be to not only visit some of these places, but to also find the owners and discuss the pros and cons with them. Then work out your costs, your overheads and you potential profit to see if its viable
> 
> ...


Thanks for a nice balanced answer.
You are right, setting up a new business anywhere not just in spain at the moment is a complete nightmare. Costs are getting higher with returns shrinking. Trade in the Uk leaves me having to work nights in a factory to make ends meet.

We will be back in Spain at the end of September and have arranged to meet with some business agents (whose advice I will take with a spoon of Alioli) and a financial consultant to get facts and figures as well as viewing some existing business for sale. 
We are lucky that our fall back plan allows us to move in with my dad in the Uk if it fails while we regroup. I suppose in some ways we are quite lucky.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Barriej said:


> Thanks for a nice balanced answer.
> You are right, setting up a new business anywhere not just in spain at the moment is a complete nightmare. Costs are getting higher with returns shrinking. Trade in the Uk leaves me having to work nights in a factory to make ends meet.
> 
> We will be back in Spain at the end of September and have arranged to meet with some business agents (whose advice I will take with a spoon of Alioli) and a financial consultant to get facts and figures as well as viewing some existing business for sale.
> We are lucky that our fall back plan allows us to move in with my dad in the Uk if it fails while we regroup. I suppose in some ways we are quite lucky.


you seem to have your head screwed on 

you have a plan B.........& even a plan C - it might just be worth a try


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Barriej said:


> Thanks for a nice balanced answer.
> You are right, setting up a new business anywhere not just in spain at the moment is a complete nightmare. Costs are getting higher with returns shrinking. Trade in the Uk leaves me having to work nights in a factory to make ends meet.
> 
> We will be back in Spain at the end of September and have arranged to meet with some business agents (whose advice I will take with a spoon of Alioli) and a financial consultant to get facts and figures as well as viewing some existing business for sale.
> We are lucky that our fall back plan allows us to move in with my dad in the Uk if it fails while we regroup. I suppose in some ways we are quite lucky.


Dont part with any money lol and beware of scammers etc. Times are hard and folk are desperate!!

You are lucky, but yes, you've got your heads screwed on. So proceed with caution and know your market. Any questions you have, pop them on here and someone will know the answer

jo xxx


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## Barriej (Jul 23, 2012)

jojo said:


> Dont part with any money lol and beware of scammers etc. Times are hard and folk are desperate!!
> 
> You are lucky, but yes, you've got your heads screwed on. So proceed with caution and know your market. Any questions you have, pop them on here and someone will know the answer
> 
> jo xxx


I agree times are hard, we have started to do our sums and based around the 'advertised' takings of one business we have looked at we should be able to cover our outgoings with a little left over for the odd night out. 

What about our location choices, are there any places we should avoid? I know thats a loaded question.. 

thanks for the kind words so far..


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Barriej said:


> Business wise we are open to being located anywhere from Calpe to Torrevieja as long as we can serve mainly expats with passing tourist trade.
> 
> Your advice and suggestions please...


Why rule out local trade? I think the sort of goods and services you offer would appeal to the Spanish as well - they love their smelly candles!


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Barriej said:


> I agree times are hard, we have started to do our sums and based around the 'advertised' takings of one business we have looked at we should be able to cover our outgoings with a little left over for the odd night out.
> 
> What about our location choices, are there any places we should avoid? I know thats a loaded question..
> 
> thanks for the kind words so far..


 I'm not from that area, but there are posters on here who may help. I guess that those in the best locations are going to be the expensive ones tho 

Jo xxx


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## Barriej (Jul 23, 2012)

Alcalaina said:


> Why rule out local trade? I think the sort of goods and services you offer would appeal to the Spanish as well - they love their smelly candles!


We've not ruled out local trade, but from what has been said in so many other threads the local Spanish population have little or no money for 'luxuries' . However I think finding a location that covers all of our bases Local, Expat and tourist is either going to be far too expensive to operate, or will be already over subscribed.

If push comes to shove, we would rather concentrate on the local and expat market as these would give a more regular income stream. 

And thanks for the info that the locals like scented candles, thats the kind of stuff we need to help us make our decision. :thumb: and was something I was unaware of.


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## Karen58 (Aug 1, 2012)

Hi,

Reading through the threads I would suggest you take a market stall first to do your market research.. less capital investment and people will tell you what they think of your stock/prices etc. Beware of taking a retail outlet, taxes in Spain are a mine-field & with VAT increasing and unemployment you must do some homework - The Spanish have little or no spending power and are too nervous to buy luxury items. Get yourself a web-site too as the internet is always a cheap outlet. To be honest, I advise you get to know your market. Good Luck all the same
:clap2:


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Karen58 said:


> Hi,
> 
> Reading through the threads I would suggest you take a market stall first to do your market research.. less capital investment and people will tell you what they think of your stock/prices etc. Beware of taking a retail outlet, taxes in Spain are a mine-field & with VAT increasing and unemployment you must do some homework - The Spanish have little or no spending power and are too nervous to buy luxury items. Get yourself a web-site too as the internet is always a cheap outlet. To be honest, I advise you get to know your market. Good Luck all the same
> :clap2:


True, but theres a queue for market stalls in most towns and of course they'd need to satisfy the new residencia rules, before they could be put on the list

jo xxx


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## gus-lopez (Jan 4, 2010)

jojo said:


> True, but theres a queue for market stalls in most towns and of course they'd need to satisfy the new residencia rules, before they could be put on the list
> 
> jo xxx


Jo, there is no requirement to register on the list of eu residents to be able to work. A passport is sufficient anywhere in the EU. You cannot be stopped from working without a 'certificate' nor can they ask you to leave/deport/ban you.The only thing they can do is fine you for failing to register.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

gus-lopez said:


> Jo, there is no requirement to register on the list of eu residents to be able to work. A passport is sufficient anywhere in the EU. You cannot be stopped from working without a 'certificate' nor can they ask you to leave/deport/ban you.The only thing they can do is fine you for failing to register.


yes - but I couldn't register as autónomo without the resident certificate & padrón

here now, you can't get on the padrón without the resident cert

and you can't get a resident cert without proof of income & healthcare provision

I don't know whether you can get on a waiting list for a market stall without proof that you are 'legal' as far as autónomo is concerned, though I suspect you can


but for how long with all the changes going on?


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## thrax (Nov 13, 2008)

There are two British card, book and gift shops near us. One is doing okish but admit they might have to close soon. The other, in a major retail park, had to close it's shop end of last year and are now located in the mall walkway but will close definitely (the staff say) at the end of this year. The reasons for their demise are the rising costs of rent, the rising cost of stock and competition from online retailers, particularly Amazon who have now opened a warehouse in Spain. All of the extra costs have to be passed onto the customers making their stock very expensive. This is not to say that such shops won't work especially as you say your retail offers a different take with unusual ideas (always welcome). But beware of taking a premises just now. You are unlikely to be able to buy and retail landlords are really struggling and, instead of lowering rents (the obviously sensible choice) they are putting up rents to the point where their retail units remain empty. I think a market stall is an excellent suggestion, particularly in view of the number of markets available which will mean you could probably be available 6 days a week and you would be able to get a good idea of what are good ideas and what are not.

Good luck with your venture and keep us all posted!!


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

gus-lopez said:


> Jo, there is no requirement to register on the list of eu residents to be able to work. A passport is sufficient anywhere in the EU. You cannot be stopped from working without a 'certificate' nor can they ask you to leave/deport/ban you.The only thing they can do is fine you for failing to register.


But there is a requirement to have proof of income and healthcare before you can become a resident and even when I was in Spain, to go on the list to have a pitch at the local market, you needed the residencia - a bit of a catch 22, since you'd also need to become an autonomo - I dont know if there is still a wait to own a market stall, I suspect there is, but I cant imagine any local ayuntamiento pushing a newly arrived expat to the front to enable them to start work to cover the requirements????

That said, there are one or two British car boot/market type things around, which maybe a starting point - not sure of their legality these days tho????

Jo xxx


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## gus-lopez (Jan 4, 2010)

jojo said:


> That said, there are one or two British car boot/market type things around, which maybe a starting point - not sure of their legality these days tho????
> 
> Jo xxx


The car boots around here all have licences from the council.


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## Solwriter (Jan 10, 2012)

gus-lopez said:


> The car boots around here all have licences from the council.


As they are around here.
And all the traders are registered as well.
They use the car boot sales as outlets from their main shops or warehouses.

We actually tried to do a few car boot sales when we first moved here, thinking it would be just like a UK car boot sale where you just go along, park up and pay the price for a pitch, but the rules here stopped us in our tracks.


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## PeteSm (Jul 29, 2012)

xabiachica said:


> you seem to have your head screwed on
> 
> you have a plan B.........& even a plan C - it might just be worth a try


If plan 'A' fails, there are 25 more letters in the alphabet.


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## Barriej (Jul 23, 2012)

PeteSm said:


> If plan 'A' fails, there are 25 more letters in the alphabet.


There may be lots of other letters, but for now. A to C 

I've a bit of an update, we have looked at 4 business's so far and none of them would keep our lifestyles at the same point they are now. One may if I can get stock from here to Spain cheaply in large enough quantities. 

So the upshot at the mo, is to do a 'go see' at the end of September like we planned, and if we cant make the figures add up, we will look at staying in the UK for the time being. There are a couple of business's here that fit our plans, they are more expensive but have the right level of turnover to ensure a good profit going forwards. 

Will report back in October.....


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## Barriej (Jul 23, 2012)

Just thought I would update this thread.

Weve been back and forth to La Nucia over the past few months.Its great having family to put us up.

If there are any Brits hoping to leave the rubbish UK weather behind, let me tell you that in mid April it was still cold and wet, two warm (by our standards) days out of 10.

All of the business's we looked into had problems of varying sorts. My work was easily transportable and I have made some good contacts for the future, and we now have a definite business area sorted out as well as at least 3 home locations. 

Property is cheap at the moment and we are seriously considering buying to rent out and then to use as a base when we decide to move over.

Again for my 2 cents, unless you have a good pension, or can speak good spanish and have a job that spain needs (although what I dont know) I would seriously think twice if I were you.

I now have a question for some of you.
I will want to bring my 1968 Mk2 Cortina over with us, when we do finally move, what hoops do I have to jump through?

Cheers.


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

Barriej said:


> Just thought I would update this thread.
> 
> Property is cheap at the moment and we are seriously considering buying to rent out and then to use as a base when we decide to move over.


Be aware that whilst you are not a tax resident in Spain (living for 183 days in the calendar year) any rent you get from a Spanish property rental will be subject to a flat rate 24.75% with no deductions.



Barriej said:


> I now have a question for some of you.
> I will want to bring my 1968 Mk2 Cortina over with us, when we do finally move, what hoops do I have to jump through?
> 
> Cheers.


Spain is not a good place for classic car enthusiasts at the moment, the government wants to reduce the average age of private vehicles by forcing older cars off the road, so expect (costly) problems with this. See some of my recent posts on this topic.

The first hoop however would be to find out if a homologation code already exists for your particular model of car. I am into the classic car scene and have never seen a Mk 2 Cortina in Spain so suspect that it was never sold here, and given that homologation codes were only unified across the EU from 1991 onwards I would suspect that there would be no code for your car in the Ministerio de Industria list.

That means that you may have to perform a one off individual homologation.


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## Calas felices (Nov 29, 2007)

Just a thought which I expect you have realised now is that the area you mentioned as being interested in is awash with Chinese outlets - you will never be able to compete with them for price.


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## Barriej (Jul 23, 2012)

Calas felices said:


> Just a thought which I expect you have realised now is that the area you mentioned as being interested in is awash with Chinese outlets - you will never be able to compete with them for price.



I know, we are not planning to open our business in La Nucia weve been in these places and looked around, then went in the local Spanish version and spent our money there.

Dont want to go into too many details but we have a contact in Alfaz del Pi who has a business that we might buy into run with them and then buy out when they retire. 

Not a certainty yet but we have a couple of years before we need to make the final decision. Until then we will be holidaying and helping out for free a couple of times a year.


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## Barriej (Jul 23, 2012)

Overandout said:


> Be aware that whilst you are not a tax resident in Spain (living for 183 days in the calendar year) any rent you get from a Spanish property rental will be subject to a flat rate 24.75% with no deductions.


Already aware of that and it still makes sense, as long as the costs are covered we dont mind not making any money, but with the bargain prices the banks want to offload the property, I don't even mind if it stays empty.

Nothing is concrete yet but we are just exploring all of our options. I still think property prices will fall another 10% at least in the next year.


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