# Driving in Spain info.



## xabiaxica

I'm trying to get all driving stuff together

here's a link to the DGT - Dirección General de Tráfico - the govt agency which deals with driving, licences etc.

http://www.dgt.es/portal/es/la_dgt/bienvenida/

and the DVLA http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/DriverLicensing/DG_10023103

here are a few threads

http://www.expatforum.com/expats/spain-expat-forum-expats-living-spain/82278-driving-license-how-get-one-difficulty-passing.html

http://www.expatforum.com/expats/spain-expat-forum-expats-living-spain/81988-error-drivers-license.html

http://www.expatforum.com/expats/spain-expat-forum-expats-living-spain/81136-uk-paper-driving-license-drive-spain.html


http://www.expatforum.com/expats/spain-expat-forum-expats-living-spain/81087-car-insurance-costa-blanca-south.html

http://www.expatforum.com/expats/spain-expat-forum-expats-living-spain/54316-car-insurance-company.html


http://www.expatforum.com/expats/spain-expat-forum-expats-living-spain/78119-american-would-like-vehicle-year-spain.html

http://www.expatforum.com/expats/spain-expat-forum-expats-living-spain/73116-bringing-cars-spain.html

http://www.expatforum.com/expats/spain-expat-forum-expats-living-spain/2818-taking-own-car-spain-3.html

See information from DGT regarding the sale of a vehicle : 

Dirección General de Tráfico 

And the form for notification of sale:

http://www.dgt.es/was6/portal/contenidos/documentos/oficina_virtual/vehiculos/bajas/transveh.pdf

When your Spanish driving licence expires, you can now do the medical/aptitude test at a local medical centre with the new licence sent to you by post within a month. You no longer have to go to Trafico.

Read more at Suite101: Renewing a Spanish Driving Licence Avoiding Tráfico Headquarters Renewing a Spanish Driving Licence Avoiding Tráfico Headquarters


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## Manin_bcn

Okay, I have just been onto the website relating to this. Not as complicated as I thought however... I have now emailed them (will get a reply when I retire, probably - joke, no offence intended!)

It seems, actually, from my interpretation, that we can get one - so I shall await their reply.

Spanish driving licence? How do you get one of those then? I have a full UK (clean) licence; do I need to exchange?


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## mepossem

Manin_bcn said:


> Okay, I have just been onto the website relating to this. Not as complicated as I thought however... I have now emailed them (will get a reply when I retire, probably - joke, no offence intended!)
> 
> It seems, actually, from my interpretation, that we can get one - so I shall await their reply.
> 
> Spanish driving licence? How do you get one of those then? I have a full UK (clean) licence; do I need to exchange?


yes, you need to get a Spanish driving license if you are resident here. Go to 'Tráfico' in Barcelona - best time is early in the afternoon, say 3 or 4 in the afternoon, when there are less queues. Depending ... you will have to take a simple eyesight exam etc. (can' t remember the exact details but any gestoría will inform you). The cards are bank card size, with your photograph and your NIE number. You are supposed to always have your driving license with you when driving. Otherwise the fine is automatic.


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## Manin_bcn

... oh okay, thanks. 

Does this cost anything, do you know?


















mepossem said:


> yes, you need to get a Spanish driving license if you are resident here. Go to 'Tráfico' in Barcelona - best time is early in the afternoon, say 3 or 4 in the afternoon, when there are less queues. Depending ... you will have to take a simple eyesight exam etc. (can' t remember the exact details but any gestoría will inform you). The cards are bank card size, with your photograph and your NIE number. You are supposed to always have your driving license with you when driving. Otherwise the fine is automatic.


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## mepossem

Manin_bcn said:


> ... oh okay, thanks.
> 
> Does this cost anything, do you know?


seem to remember some 15 or 25 euro but can' t do so exactly


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## Manin_bcn

... ok thanks again!

Trying to locate the office, but coming up with lots of different sites, which basically don't mean anything! Ha!





mepossem said:


> seem to remember some 15 or 25 euro but can' t do so exactly


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## Manin_bcn

... thanks, it was the official website, but I can't post URL's on here (for some reason).

I have found this, relating to EU/UK driving licence to Spanish:

_All EU driving licenses are recognized in Spain. If you are European Union citizen, you may drive in Spain until your license expires, then you must apply for a Spanish driving license and prove your residency in Spain (showing your NIE no. and registration of your property with the local Town Hall would be enough)._

My licence doesn't expire for another 10 years, so I guess I'm okay?? I just am one of those people who like to do things 'right' n 'proper'.


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## mepossem

in Barcelona, Tráfico is :
Gran Vía Corts Catalanes, 184, Barcelona - 932 986 500

Don' t remember the price at all. You really are better off calling them (or 060, the general administration telephone number) or going there and asking them.

There is one or two tests (incl. on a computer) in a private company - don t worry, they are close by), a simple medical questionnaire and eye test, etc. but all nothing to be worried about. Again: can' t recall the cost.


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## 90199

mepossem said:


> no, there's another rule that if you are resident you need a spanish driving licence.


You can change your present licence for a Spanish one, but here we are told that our British Photo Licence will suffice, providing we have the medical.

Boss Lady has changed hers, I didn't.


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## xabiaxica

Manin_bcn said:


> .... argh! Such bureaucracy!
> 
> Okay, I'll go to the office next week and make some enquiries ... test? OMG, I think I would probably fail the UK driving test nowadays!
> 
> I can drive though ..... ;-)


actually you don't HAVE to have a spanish license - although it is generally advised

also, you don't have to take what you would really call a test - from what I'm told it's more like playing a computer game!!


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## Manin_bcn

... okay, well that's helpful to know.

Thanks folks!









Hepa said:


> You can change your present licence for a Spanish one, but here we are told that our British Photo Licence will suffice, providing we have the medical.
> 
> Boss Lady has changed hers, I didn't.


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## Manin_bcn

okay, yes, similar to the UK then ;-))


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## mepossem

xabiachica said:


> actually you don't HAVE to have a spanish license - although it is generally advised
> 
> also, you don't have to take what you would really call a test - from what I'm told it's more like playing a computer game!!



last time I looked, you HAVE to. Of course, others may know far better.
and no, I am not going to look around on a saturday afternoon 

as said: just call Tráfico and ask them. Rules change all the time so ...


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## Stravinsky

mepossem said:


> no, there's another rule that if you are resident you need a spanish driving licence.


No, thats complely untrue. There is no such rule.

A British photo driving licence is completely accepted in Spain as long as it falls in with Spanish law, i.e. you have to have the "medical" at intervals

Manin, when you say "expires", you realise your photo licence expires _every_ 10 years? In other words you have to renew it every 10 years from the date of issue with a new photo.
When the full term of your licence is up, it is only then that you have to take a Spanish one.


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## Stravinsky

mepossem said:


> last time I looked, you HAVE to. Of course, others may know far better.
> and no, I am not going to look around on a saturday afternoon
> 
> as said: just call Tráfico and ask them. Rules change all the time so ...


It must have been a long time since you looked
There is no need to call Trafico.

The answer is that due to reciprocal arrangements between the UK and Spain the UK licence is totally acceptable, as per my previous post


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## Manin_bcn

... The UK provides licences with an expiry date now - expiry for renewal that is ... not complete expiry ... and mine is due for automatic (well, I have to apply) renewal in 2020!






Stravinsky said:


> No, thats complely untrue. There is no such rule.
> 
> A British photo driving licence is completely accepted in Spain as long as it falls in with Spanish law, i.e. you have to have the "medical" at intervals
> 
> Manin, when you say "expires", you realise your photo licence expires _every_ 10 years? In other words you have to renew it every 10 years from the date of issue with a new photo.
> When the full term of your licence is up, it is only then that you have to take a Spanish one.


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## Alcalaina

xabiachica said:


> actually you don't HAVE to have a spanish license - although it is generally advised
> 
> also, you don't have to take what you would really call a test - from what I'm told it's more like playing a computer game!!


That's right, it's advisable to get a Spanish one because if it is lost or stolen the DVLC won't send a replacement UK licence to a Spanish address.

If you don't want to change, e.g. if you might be moving back some day, make sure the UK address for you on the DVLC database is still current.

Change of name and address on your driving licence : Directgov - Motoring


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## mepossem

ok, just called the Guardia Civil here in Alicante (actually, the call is for free) and the woman first told me YES you need to change.

Then, after I insisted, she called someone and after 5 minutes the reply from Guardia Civil de Tráfico is:

a. as a Briton, resident in Spain, you no longer need to change your driving license to a Spanish one
b. HOWEVER they recommend you do it, since if you have a UK driving license you will have to pay all traffic fines on the spot - whereas otherwise you can ask for them to be sent to your home.

So yes, you can have your cake but NOT eat it 
If, with a British driving license, you get stopped and need to pay a fine, you may find you go home on foot, if you can' t pay the on the spot fine.

As usual, I prefer information rather than hearsay - and the GC information is that Stravinsky is right, but ... there's a slight problem in being right in Spain.


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## mepossem

Alcalaina said:


> That's right, it's advisable to get a Spanish one because if it is lost or stolen the DVLC won't send a replacement UK licence to a Spanish address.
> 
> If you don't want to change, e.g. if you might be moving back some day, make sure the UK address for you on the DVLC database is still current.
> 
> Change of name and address on your driving licence : Directgov - Motoring


actually another good reason to stick to the spanish system ...


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## xabiaxica

Manin_bcn said:


> ... The UK provides licences with an expiry date now - expiry for renewal that is ... not complete expiry ... and mine is due for automatic (well, I have to apply) renewal in 2020!


the thing about the renewal is that you have to have a UK address - which of course you don't (really) have if you are resident in Spain

so when it's time for renewal, then you would have to change to a Spanish one

but not before then if you don't want to


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## 90199

Anther thing, if you are an old Git, I am, when you renew a British licence at 70, the new one lasts four years, they only last two years here. That is one of the reasons I haven't changed.

Of course if you don't drive, you don't need a licence, I might just go down that road, I haven't driven four over three years


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## donz

*Car Tax*

Hi peeps, I have tried doing a search for threads relating to car tax but keep getting 'sorry no matches'

I am sure there must have been plenty so if anyone can point me towards one where I can see how to put car tax on a vehicle that would be great  any idea on costs too


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## Alcalaina

Hiya Donz

When did you register your car in Spain? Or haven't you yet?

Once it is registered with Spanish plates (or if you bought it here) you should get a bill from the Ayuntamiento in May each year, then you just take that to a bank and pay it. There is no tax disc to display on the car.

The amount depends on the engine size and where you live, we pay about €115 for an 1800cc Meriva in Andalucia.


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## Pat Lleida

You pay it to your local Ayuntamiento. What you pay depends on what you drive and where you live. I used to pay 180 for a Kangoo in a small village, now I pay 250 for a Grand Cherokee in a biggish town.
Best way is look at their website for the "calendario fiscal" to see when it is due. I think you can pay in installments (fracionar) if you do it by direct debit. (domicilar)


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## DunWorkin

We pay €45 a year for a Ford Fiesta here in Campello. If we lived a few miles away in San Juan it would be almost double that.

Have you settled yet in Spain? If not, look into the costs of road tax, IBI (Council Tax) etc before you choose a town.


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## donz

Hi yes we have been here since last year and bought the car in Feb or Mar. I also thought that it was May that you got a letter through the post & I had all the paperwork come through to me in my name approx a month before the 1st May but have not yet heard anything which is why I wondered.

I don't want to be stopped one day and be asked about car tax and have to plead ignorance - I am sure that would not go down well


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## gus-lopez

Here it is from the 1st of march. As from that date you can go into the council offices & give them your reg. number & they will print off a payment sheet that you pay at the bank . This is handy if the renewal doesn't arrive in the post , which around here used to be quite common even when you purchased a new car. I never received one in 6 years . Payment from this date is called the 'voluntary period' & for the following 6 weeks incurs a 10% additional charge. =Payment after this is not possible until you are notified & fined. The starting date in your area might be slightly different but you need to enquire at the council.


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## country boy

A trip to your local town hall will solve all your problems. We have three vehicles and it really is sooo simple, any arrears will accrue a small surcharge for non payment, that's all!


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## Alcalaina

donz said:


> Hi yes we have been here since last year and bought the car in Feb or Mar. I also thought that it was May that you got a letter through the post & I had all the paperwork come through to me in my name approx a month before the 1st May but have not yet heard anything which is why I wondered.
> 
> I don't want to be stopped one day and be asked about car tax and have to plead ignorance - I am sure that would not go down well


Sounds like a trip to your Ayuntamiento is needed a.s.a.p. Take all the car paperwork, padron etc with you - after the first year's payment you can pay by direct debit and forget about it.

I do remember we didn't have to pay anything the first year, but in the second year we got two bills for the same car! Someone had entered the engine number wrongly in the database and instead of correcting it they created a new record. It was only when we pointed out they were the same make and registration number that they believed us ...


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## donz

ok thanks, I am not on the padron - will this matter?


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## Alcalaina

donz said:


> ok thanks, I am not on the padron - will this matter?


No, but you could do that too, while you're there!


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## donz

thanks peeps appreciate all the help as always


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## Maimee

donz said:


> ok thanks, I am not on the padron - will this matter?


Tut, tut. It is very important that we all sign on the padron as this is the way that the local town hall receives money. If no-one signed up they would really lose out, which would mean that we would all have to pay more local taxes such as car tax, obras etc.

Our car tax was 44 euro this year, we have an Ford Fiesta diesel, and live in the Valencian province.


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## DunWorkin

Maimee said:


> Tut, tut. It is very important that we all sign on the padron as this is the way that the local town hall receives money. If no-one signed up they would really lose out, which would mean that we would all have to pay more local taxes such as car tax, obras etc.
> 
> Our car tax was 44 euro this year, we have an Ford Fiesta diesel, and live in the Valencian province.


As I said before, it is not the province that determines your level of car tax but your town (ie the town hall you come under). Some towns in Valencia are much more expensive than others.

Also, just to add you will not be able to tax your car until you are on the padron. That is how they know which area you are in and how much to charge you.

As Maimee says, we should all be on the padron. There is absolutely no reason not to be.


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## country boy

_ok thanks, I am not on the padron - will this matter? _

You SHOULD do that too while you're there


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## donz

ok peeps settle down!!!! I get the message! 

Not that it's anybodys business as to WHY I haven't done it yet but of the few occasions I have had the time to actually go there, the town hall has been mainly unavailable for various reasons including being taken over for 2 months by the locals who were so unhappy about certain things they staged a sit in!!! I live in the campo as part of a tiny village and so access to it is 'hardly ever' at the best of times.


Please be careful about the use of the way things are written else it comes across the wrong way - the use of smileys is always helpful....


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## Maimee

donz said:


> ok peeps settle down!!!! I get the message!
> 
> Not that it's anybodys business as to WHY I haven't done it yet but of the few occasions I have had the time to actually go there, the town hall has been mainly unavailable for various reasons including being taken over for 2 months by the locals who were so unhappy about certain things they staged a sit in!!! I live in the campo as part of a tiny village and so access to it is 'hardly ever' at the best of times.
> 
> 
> Please be careful about the use of the way things are written else it comes across the wrong way - the use of smileys is always helpful....


Just had a thought about your car tax, if you bought the car in Feb or MAr it could be that it had already been paid prior to them selling it to you. I think the only thing I have to prove that mine is taxed is the payment slip from the bank and maybe a copy of the actual tax demand slip. These are not very big and are very thin so it might be a good idea to sift through you car paperwork again to see if it is tied up with something else.

The sit-in sounds a bit like one that I saw on TV, they had erected a little shelter outside for a donkey too. Do you know whether it did any good?


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## lynn

Mijas don't issue a reminder. You just have to go up to the ayuntamiento and pay... It was around 50 euros for a 1600cc peugeot sw (so really cheap)


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## stevelin

I sold a car in Feb and then received a bill in May. When I queried it I was told I was responsible as I was the owner on the 1st January


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## Pat Lleida

stevelin said:


> I sold a car in Feb and then received a bill in May. When I queried it I was told I was responsible as I was the owner on the 1st January


Yep, true. Same happened to me. Luckily the guy who I gave the van to gave me back the 80 odd Euro, so I wasn't out of pocket. I gave him the bank slip and he was legal for the year.


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## youngagepensioner

We filled in a form at the bank to have our car tax taken out directly. The Ayuntamiento took none in 2008, then took two years' worth in 2009. They have taken none since.

When I went to enquire, the guy there said that it would come out automatically, why did I want to pay it?


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## Trubrit

I was just about to buy a car from a local guy but it came to light that he hasn't paid any road tax for 8 years and I have been told that I will have to pay the back tax and a fine before I can become legal, is this correct?


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## gus-lopez

Trubrit said:


> I was just about to buy a car from a local guy but it came to light that he hasn't paid any road tax for 8 years and I have been told that I will have to pay the back tax and a fine before I can become legal, is this correct?


Yes, if he doesn't!


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## baldilocks

The solution is to exchange your Driving Licence for a Spanish one which you should have done anyway, within six months of becoming a resident. It has your NIE and photo on and is acceptable by most shops as ID for using debit/credit cards etc.


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## Happyexpat

*Not required now*

Now confusion reigns as usual. We have been told that we do not now need to change our photocard UK licence until it requires renewing. We then have to get a Spanish one. Source local Guardia. They also say that we can volunteer to register the licence with them and all they do is stamp it, you keep the original licence. Talk about left and right hands.......in any case most shops accept my UK licence so it isn't a problem.



baldilocks said:


> The solution is to exchange your Driving Licence for a Spanish one which you should have done anyway, within six months of becoming a resident. It has your NIE and photo on and is acceptable by most shops as ID for using debit/credit cards etc.


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## xabiaxica

Happyexpat said:


> Now confusion reigns as usual. We have been told that we do not now need to change our photocard UK licence until it requires renewing. We then have to get a Spanish one. Source local Guardia. They also say that we can volunteer to register the licence with them and all they do is stamp it, you keep the original licence. Talk about left and right hands.......in any case most shops accept my UK licence so it isn't a problem.


you're right

you don't HAVE to until it expires


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## baldilocks

xabiachica said:


> you're right
> 
> you don't HAVE to until it expires


There is debate on this one that depends which official you talk to, however if and when you get to 70 and your UK one runs out, you will have to take a Spanish Driving Test, unless, of course, you have already changed to a Spanish licence!


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## MacRov

UK driving licences now expire long before you reach 70, must be to do with wanting an updated photo every few years....and of course some cash.


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## JoCatalunya

If I wish to change my UK licence to a Spanish one do I have to take a test? My Catala friend seems to think so.
If I change over will they automatically put the range of vehicles I can drive on my UK licence on my new Spanish one. (The looks of incredulity I get from the likes of Police that I can drive lorries is amazing. Apparently it is a well known fact that us Brits can't drive over here, we don't know how. As told to me by several Mossos d'escuadra.)


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## xabiaxica

JoCatalunya said:


> If I wish to change my UK licence to a Spanish one do I have to take a test? My Catala friend seems to think so.
> If I change over will they automatically put the range of vehicles I can drive on my UK licence on my new Spanish one. (The looks of incredulity I get from the likes of Police that I can drive lorries is amazing. Apparently it is a well known fact that us Brits can't drive over here, we don't know how. As told to me by several Mossos d'escuadra.)


I'm not exactly an expert - never did learn to drive


but I do know lots of people who have swapped their UK licences for Spanish ones & they said the 'test' was like a video game - lasted a few minutes & wasn't any more than having to keep the 'car' between thelines - & some have even admitted to not managing that & still passed


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## JoCatalunya

xabiachica said:


> I'm not exactly an expert - never did learn to drive
> 
> 
> but I do know lots of people who have swapped their UK licences for Spanish ones & they said the 'test' was like a video game - lasted a few minutes & wasn't any more than having to keep the 'car' between thelines - & some have even admitted to not managing that & still passed


But why if I have a UK driving licence am I requested/expected to take a test in order to change it for a Spanish one. 
Lets face it, our driving test is far more complicated, in depth than the Spanish one. I cannot recount how many times I have had to park or get out of a tight squeeze the local ladies cars. They honestly think bumpers are for that, bumping back and forth until they either push the other car out of the way or someone comes and rescues them and parks /gets out their car, in/from the space.


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## Pesky Wesky

xabiachica said:


> I'm not exactly an expert - never did learn to drive
> 
> 
> but I do know lots of people who have swapped their UK licences for Spanish ones & they said the 'test' was like a video game - lasted a few minutes & wasn't any more than having to keep the 'car' between thelines - & some have even admitted to not managing that & still passed


That is PART of the medical test and you don't have to keep the object between the two lines; you have to do the best you can. Over a certain percentage is deemed OK. Nobody is supposed to get the object "correctly" placed all the time. In fact, if you did, you'd probably fail! You also have your eyes tested and answer a few questions.

The pen and paper part of the test, or computer part, is a multiple choice which is fairly tricky and requires study even if you've been driving for years.
And then there's the practical test.
BUT I'm not saying that's what you have to do if "swapping" licences,; I don't know. I'm just saying that's what happens when you take your test in Spain


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## almendros

In Spain all drivers must have a medical check (which includes the computer simulator) every time they renew their licence which is every 10 years up to 65 and every 5 years thereafter.

If you are resident and opt to keep your UK licence you must still have the medical checks at the same frequency as if you had a Spanish licence.


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## xabiaxica

JoCatalunya said:


> But why if I have a UK driving licence am I requested/expected to take a test in order to change it for a Spanish one.
> Lets face it, our driving test is far more complicated, in depth than the Spanish one. I cannot recount how many times I have had to park or get out of a tight squeeze the local ladies cars. They honestly think bumpers are for that, bumping back and forth until they either push the other car out of the way or someone comes and rescues them and parks /gets out their car, in/from the space.


I believe it's the same 'test' that the Spanish do when they renew their licences


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## Alcalaina

JoCatalunya said:


> But why if I have a UK driving licence am I requested/expected to take a test in order to change it for a Spanish one.


It's not a driving test - it's a visual coordination test. 

Your UK licence expires when you are 70.
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/DriverLicensing/NeedANewOrUpdatedLicence/DG_4022086


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## Brangus

Happyexpat said:


> Now confusion reigns as usual. We have been told that we do not now need to change our photocard UK licence until it requires renewing. We then have to get a Spanish one. Source local Guardia.


It is confusing. My husband and I both swapped our EU licenses in April. We were told that we were not entitled to temporary Spanish permits because we did not make the swap within 6 months of registering ourselves as residents. So it seems you can trade in a non-Spanish EU license at any time while it's valid, but after those 6 months are up you won't be allowed to drive in the interim.

Without the temporary licenses, we were in effect "grounded" for 2+ months because it took that long for my license to come in the post. My husband still hasn't gotten his, even though we applied at the same time. 

In addition, in Castilla-La Mancha we did not have to take any test whatsover: no medical or eye exam, no theory test, no computer simulation, nothing. We filled out a half-page form, paid a small fee, submitted 2 photos and handed over our licenses. That was it. Maybe the rules differ depending on where you live and whether your local government can afford computers...


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## baldilocks

Brangus said:


> It is confusing. My husband and I both swapped our EU licenses in April. We were told that we were not entitled to temporary Spanish permits because we did not make the swap within 6 months of registering ourselves as residents. So it seems you can trade in a non-Spanish EU license at any time while it's valid, but after those 6 months are up you won't be allowed to drive in the interim.
> 
> Without the temporary licenses, we were in effect "grounded" for 2+ months because it took that long for my license to come in the post. My husband still hasn't gotten his, even though we applied at the same time.
> 
> In addition, in Castilla-La Mancha we did not have to take any test whatsover: no medical or eye exam, no theory test, no computer simulation, nothing. We filled out a half-page form, paid a small fee, submitted 2 photos and handed over our licenses. That was it. Maybe the rules differ depending on where you live and whether your local government can afford computers...


In actual fact it all depends which official you encounter. Although they are all supposed to sing from the same song sheet they each sing to different tunes.

When we changed ours (Jaén) we didn't have to take any eye test or medical or computer test - nothing. We were issued with small cards as temporary licences and we were about 18 months after getting residence. We had to go back to DGT in Jaén to collect our new licences but they telephoned us to go to collect them.

I now always use that for identity purposes since it saves carrying my passport around and, additionally, fits in my wallet.


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## JoCatalunya

The Mossos will not accept a UK driving licence as proof of identity, they insist we carry our passports. However, one can get a certified copy from a Notary (for a small fee) and this is supposed to suffice, but as with everything some of the officers do not know what the law is and still insist we carry our passport.


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## JoCatalunya

Alcalaina said:


> It's not a driving test - it's a visual coordination test.
> 
> Your UK licence expires when you are 70.
> Renewing your driving licence at 70 plus : Directgov - Motoring


The purpose of which is what exactly? Surely if I have a licence why is it necessary for me to undertake a test here. If one failed it, what then? 
I can understand an eyetest, but a co-ordination test?


----------



## Morten

Honestly, its extremely hard to fail the coordination test ... I turned up half-asleep and deadly hungover, had the coordination of a drunken elephant in a china-shop, scored "perfect" ... and so did everyone else there. If you failed somehow, you could go re-do it the day after....



JoCatalunya said:


> The purpose of which is what exactly? Surely if I have a licence why is it necessary for me to undertake a test here. If one failed it, what then?
> I can understand an eyetest, but a co-ordination test?


----------



## baldilocks

JoCatalunya said:


> The purpose of which is what exactly? Surely if I have a licence why is it necessary for me to undertake a test here. If one failed it, what then?
> I can understand an eyetest, but a co-ordination test?


In theory it is to avoid discrimination - the Spanish have to do it so we have to as well! One can see the point since, if it got out that we didn't have to and they did, you can imagine the Spanish protest... "Los imigrantes britanicos!!!!"


----------



## almendros

Brangus said:


> We were told that we were not entitled to temporary Spanish permits because we did not make the swap within 6 months of registering ourselves as residents.
> 
> In addition, in Castilla-La Mancha we did not have to take any test whatsover: no medical or eye exam, no theory test, no computer simulation, nothing. .


On the first point you can change your licence any time you like and you should be issued with paperwork to cover you in the meantime.

To be on the safe side keep a photocopy of your UK licence and a copy of the application form to exchange your licence.

As for medicals, they are not normally required when you exchange because the Spanish would assume that you had had any necessary medicals when you got your current UK licence - Ha Ha!

Some gestors who handle the exchange don't understand this and if in doubt ask you to have a medical. 

The first time you will have a medical is when you renew the Spanish licence.

The rules are fairly clear but like anything in Spain the authorities seem to interpret the rules differently from place to place and sometimes seem to make them up as they go along!


----------



## Alcalaina

JoCatalunya said:


> The purpose of which is what exactly? Surely if I have a licence why is it necessary for me to undertake a test here. If one failed it, what then?
> I can understand an eyetest, but a co-ordination test?


Because some people become less co-ordinated with age ...

And the last thing you want is doddery old drivers who can't stay on the right side of the white line.


----------



## baldilocks

Alcalaina said:


> And the last thing you want is doddery old drivers who can't stay on the right side of the white line.


Even worse are those who insist on driving on the *left* side of the white line!!
:clap2:


----------



## Happyexpat

*Regional*

I have now asked a number of people, who should know the answer, about this driving licence situation in the Alicante area. Same answer every time, you don't need to change it until renewal but if you want to it will only be stamped. Certainly, for the 'stamping' there is no eye test or co-ordination test. From this I can only assume that it must be regional thing as usual but there is a BIG technical BUT in all this.
The terms of issue of the UK licence are that it must always show your current permanent address which must be a UK one. Now if you have emigrated to Spain with residencia in most cases you won't have a UK address as permanent residence.....I don't want to think about this too much but in terms of legality it is certainly, at least, a grey area.


baldilocks said:


> In actual fact it all depends which official you encounter. Although they are all supposed to sing from the same song sheet they each sing to different tunes.
> 
> When we changed ours (Jaén) we didn't have to take any eye test or medical or computer test - nothing. We were issued with small cards as temporary licences and we were about 18 months after getting residence. We had to go back to DGT in Jaén to collect our new licences but they telephoned us to go to collect them.
> 
> I now always use that for identity purposes since it saves carrying my passport around and, additionally, fits in my wallet.


----------



## JoCatalunya

baldilocks said:


> Even worse are those who insist on driving on the *left* side of the white line!!
> :clap2:


Driving on the correct side of the road isn't an issue with the old and indeed young drivers here in Catalunya. They opt for the 'Scalextrix' approach, drive down the white line with it perfectly centred in the middle of your car and you don't have to turn your wheel hardly at all for those corners.


----------



## Happyexpat

There seems to be two speeds in Spain recklessly fast and dead slow but I don't think it is the cars I worry about, its the motor scooter stunt riders that are all over the road. I ride a Gold Wing, have been riding bikes for 40 plus years, have been fully trained to ride with the Police and I wouldn't try half the stunts they pull. Still it definitely teaches motorists good obeservation and tests the brakes on a very regular basis.
The Guardia down here seem to have got fed up with them as they have atarted having regular check points just pulling bikes. That is of course on top of the van check points, UK licence plate check points and of course the dreaded speeding ones.


----------



## stevesainty

[QUOTE
The terms of issue of the UK licence are that it must always show your current permanent address which must be a UK one. Now if you have emigrated to Spain with residencia in most cases you won't have a UK address as permanent residence.....I don't want to think about this too much but in terms of legality it is certainly, at least, a grey area.[/QUOTE]

This got me thinking so I checked the Direct gov site in UK, here is a quote:

Moving to another country

If you move to another country, you should check with the driving licence authorities there for information about driving and exchange of licences. *You don't need to notify DVLA of a change of address when moving to live abroad.*


Returning to GB

If you return to GB from a non-EC/EEA country and are not in possession of a GB licence, you may:


•drive for up to 12 months on your foreign licence
•apply for a duplicate of your GB licence on payment of a fee


----------



## baldilocks

Happyexpat said:


> I ride a Gold Wing,


Do you have a prayer to go with that "Wing"?:clap2:


----------



## Happyexpat

Yep, "Thank you Lord for that which I have received", I take it you ride a tractor like em really.....


baldilocks said:


> Do you have a prayer to go with that?:clap2:


----------



## baldilocks

stevesainty said:


> [QUOTE
> The terms of issue of the UK licence are that it must always show your current permanent address which must be a UK one. Now if you have emigrated to Spain with residencia in most cases you won't have a UK address as permanent residence.....I don't want to think about this too much but in terms of legality it is certainly, at least, a grey area.





stevesainty said:


> This got me thinking so I checked the Direct gov site in UK, here is a quote:
> 
> Moving to another country
> 
> If you move to another country, you should check with the driving licence authorities there for information about driving and exchange of licences. *You don't need to notify DVLA of a change of address when moving to live abroad.*


No you don't need to notify DVLA of a change of address because if you comply with the law here in Spain, you should exchange your UK licence for a Spanish one, and DGT notify DVLA/ (return your UK licence to DVLA for cancellation) that you have moved and you are no longer UK resident.




stevesainty said:


> Returning to GB
> 
> If you return to GB from a *non-EC*/EEA country and are not in possession of a GB licence, you may:
> 
> •drive for up to 12 months on your foreign licence
> •apply for a duplicate of your GB licence on payment of a fee


With all due respect, this is irrelevant since Spain *is* an EC country and while you maintain Spain as your country of residence, you may drive in the UK for up to 12 months on your Spanish licence, UNLESS you become resident again in the UK (this means you give up your Spanish residency) in which case you have to follow the DVLA's requirements and either exchange your Spanish Licence or a UK one or try to get your old UK one reinstated which will then negate your Spanish licence. 

It is the old, old story - you can't have your cake and eat it!


----------



## Happyexpat

Well thats pretty straightforward isn't it, basically a 'dump job'. So what we end up with is two conflicting sets of rules neither of which really apply. Actually its quite clever if you think about it. The responsibility lies with with D/L owner who then has to wade through miles of paperwork to actually figure out what is correct or not. I think I will just stick the *basic* principle out here, you don't need to change your licence until renewal.....


stevesainty said:


> [QUOTE
> The terms of issue of the UK licence are that it must always show your current permanent address which must be a UK one. Now if you have emigrated to Spain with residencia in most cases you won't have a UK address as permanent residence.....I don't want to think about this too much but in terms of legality it is certainly, at least, a grey area.


This got me thinking so I checked the Direct gov site in UK, here is a quote:

Moving to another country

If you move to another country, you should check with the driving licence authorities there for information about driving and exchange of licences. *You don't need to notify DVLA of a change of address when moving to live abroad.*


Returning to GB

If you return to GB from a non-EC/EEA country and are not in possession of a GB licence, you may:


•drive for up to 12 months on your foreign licence
•apply for a duplicate of your GB licence on payment of a fee[/QUOTE]


----------



## stevesainty

See below an extract from a document I found on Idealspain.com The largest internet guide to Spain. Moving to Spain, living in Spain, driving in Spain, visit Spain guide

It appears that after a law change in 2004 bringing Spain into line with the rest of the EU, european driving licences i.e. the ones with the ring of stars on it are perfectly legal in Spain until they expire. Only then do you need to exchange them for a Spanish one. Note however that the photo licence has an earlier expiry date to the accompanying paper one. It is also probably advisable to apply for your Spanish licence in good time so that you are not in between licences.

Driving in Spain - Driving licences in Spain
UPDATE ON EU DRIVING LICENCE LAWS 
If you have a driving licence from any other EU country, it is automatically valid in Spain. All other countries (including the USA), can drive for just 6 months in one calendar year but must then obtain a Spanish licence. A driving school will handle all the paperwork for you. To apply for a test you will need to present a copy of your residencia, passport photographs, a completed application form and the fee of 160.95€ and a medical certificate obtained at an official medical centre (24€ fee). 


Driving Licences for residents of Spain

If Resident in Spain you have to either change your driving licence or put an inscription on your EU licence at your nearest 'Jefatura Provincial de Tráfico' (in Madrid at C/Arturo Soria 143, Tel: 913 018 500) (see change in law section lower down)



If you are a resident by means of working i.e. you don't hold a residents card, but are paying taxes and Social Security in Spain and working for more than 185 days in Spain per year, you have to either change or put an inscription on your EU Licence.



Spanish Driving Licence - Documents needed:

Residents: Copy of residencia, Driving licence (original), 2 photos and a signed form which can obtain from police station. If it is being renewed at the same time - an eye test from a doctor.
Working resident documents needed: All of the above but instead of copy of residencia, the following: copy of passport, copy of NIE certificate, copy of contract (minimum of 6 months), if self employed proof of Social Security payments, justification of address (cert Empadronamiento / proof of residence of min. 6 months). 

Time: 2 Weeks (approx.). Price: 46.40 euros



Inscription on Driving Licence - Documents needed:

Residents: copy of residencia, Driving licence, signed form.
Non-residents: copy of NIE certificate, copy of passport, justification of address (cert Empadronamiento / proof of residence of min. 6 months). 

Time: Photo card driving licence 2-3 months (approx.) or Paper licence 2-3 weeks. Price: 46.40 euros

In both cases a justificate (copy documentation) will be given to the client, which is valid for 60 days and proves that the original is with the traffic police. This can be extended if necessary.



Where to go: 
Your nearest 'Jefatura Provincial de Tráfico'. 

The Law changes on foreign EU driving licences (at last):

On September 9th, 2004, the Law in Spain was effectively changed as the result of a decision handed down by the European Court of Justice (it has still to be written in the Statute Book) as follows: -

Was - foreign EU licences had to be changed for Spanish ones if you took out residencia (or legally work for a company here), and drove a Spanish registered (plated) car, or the licence had to be registered if you stayed over three months or bought a Spanish plated car, but did not live here. Spain was, in fact, in contravention of the EU Directive on this subject.

New Effective Law from 9th September 2004: -

Please note that the Law has yet to be amended in Spain, but the judgement handed down means that it is virtually effective now, as any fines would be pointless. I have no news of an appeal, which, in my opinion, would be pointless. Please read on.....

Your EU foreign licence, the one with the ring of stars on the front and, for the UK, is of a credit/bank card size, but for all EU countries, it can be the folded card as still at this time used in Spain, is legal to use in Spain (or anywhere in the EU) whether you are a visitor or live here as your principal place of residence (taken out residencia). However, you have to comply with the Laws in Spain where the licence will expire according to Spanish Laws as detailed are in my book, Motoring in Spain, Part 6 - 4. The older pre-EU type licences must still be changed for a Spanish one or an EU one from your home country, if this is still possible. The card has been available in the UK for some time. In Spain, it is expected that they will be issued from 2005.

*If you are stopped by an official who attempts to issue you with a denuncia in connection with this subject, you may quote, " Case C-195/02 of the European Court of Justice, decision 9th September 2004". In Spanish: -

La decision del Tribunal de Justicia Europea, numero C-195/02, 9 de Septiembre de 2.004.*
COMMENT

Many drivers have been issued with denuncias and heavy fines as high as 450 euros since the date of the case decision which effectively negates the existing Law from the 9th September, and these people are advised to return their denuncia forms to the Traficos in each region, and you will (eventually) be reimbursed with the cash and the denuncia record will be expunged. If you have a problem with this, please advise your nearest British Consular office. All the fines and denuncias prior to the 9th September still stand. Sorry folks.

PROOF OF ADDRESS

The problem of your driving licence not having the correct local address on it has yet to be settled, and we will hopefully know all the answers when the Spanish Law book is changed on this matter. In the UK, the driver is expected to have the form D740 that is sent with the card licence ready to "produce when required". It may be that foreign licence holders will have to register their licences if Spain is their home, and carry a similar form with them in the car. They could carry a D740 as there is space for a change of address on it. We will have to wait and see. The form D740 also has details of any endorsements on it as well, so the local officials will see these, if any.


----------



## stevesainty

See my photo album for copy of letter
ADVICE LETTER FROM THE SPANISH MINISTERIO DEL INTERIOR ADVISING NOTICE OF SENTENCE BY THE EUROPEAN COURT OF JUSTICE


----------



## country boy

And now for something entirely different: Two views of the same subject...

The official way round a roundabout:
http://www.chiclana.es/fileadmin/user_upload/Prensa/rotonda.pdf

The driving school way:
Por qu circular por el carril de la derecha en las glorietas? | Autoescuela Miguel Blog

'nuff said!


----------



## Happyexpat

Like I said a confusing grey area mess of different rules all not fully applicable. No wonder the Guardia get it wrong, in this case I actually feel a bit sorry for them. When trying to deal with rules that are not black and white and open to interpretation there are always going to be problems. Interestingly up here in Alicante the police never ask for the D740, the majority don't even seem to know it exists, which is probably just as well. They can however now add points to a UK licence and can obtain details from Swansea and I have had this demonstrated (in a friendly way thank goodness).



stevesainty said:


> PROOF OF ADDRESS
> 
> The problem of your driving licence not having the correct local address on it has *yet to be settled*, and we will hopefully know all the answers when the Spanish Law book is changed on this matter. In the UK, the driver is expected to have the form D740 that is sent with the card licence ready to "produce when required". It may be that foreign licence holders will have to register their licences if Spain is their home, and carry a similar form with them in the car. They could carry a D740 as there is space for a change of address on it. *We will have to wait and see. *


----------



## Happyexpat

*Postman Pat*

The driving school way reminds me of 'Postman Pat'. A friend, who had an accident on a roundabout was told "If you are in the outside lane of a roundabout irrespective (_and that's the important bit)_ of which exit you are taking you will be in the right as far as insurance Co's are concerned. There is a bit of logic there in that if somebody cuts in front of you from the inside lane then they are in the wrong. However being in the outside lane at all times somewhat defeats the principle, no wonder many drivers do it! 


country boy said:


> And now for something entirely different: Two views of the same subject...
> 
> The official way round a roundabout:
> http://www.chiclana.es/fileadmin/user_upload/Prensa/rotonda.pdf
> 
> The driving school way:
> Por qu circular por el carril de la derecha en las glorietas? | Autoescuela Miguel Blog
> 
> 'nuff said!


----------



## el pavlo

My UK driving licence expires when I'm 70 (I hope I don't !) I will then have to get a Spanish licence. 
Will there be some sort of a medical to go through before I get the Spanish licence ? 
And will I have to take some sort of driving test, apart from that which has been mentioned already ?
Any advice would be welcome.
Many thanks.


----------



## Alcalaina

el pavlo said:


> My UK driving licence expires when I'm 70 (I hope I don't !) I will then have to get a Spanish licence.
> Will there be some sort of a medical to go through before I get the Spanish licence ?
> And will I have to take some sort of driving test, apart from that which has been mentioned already ?
> Any advice would be welcome.
> Many thanks.


I believe it´s best to change to a Spanish licence BEFORE your UK one expires, as it is easier to exchange a current licence. 

Either way, you will just need to do the eyesight and coordination test referred to above.


----------



## el pavlo

Alcalaina said:


> I believe it´s best to change to a Spanish licence BEFORE your UK one expires, as it is easier to exchange a current licence.
> 
> Either way, you will just need to do the eyesight and coordination test referred to above.


Hi Alcalaina

OK many thanks for the info.


----------



## almendros

If you are a resident driving on a UK licence you are obliged to have the medical at the same frequency as the holder of a Spanish licence.

If you do not, then your UK licence is effectively invalid in Spain and your insurance could also be invalidated.


----------



## baldilocks

There are all so many grey areas and everything depends on the official (DGT or Guardia Civil) you see/speak to. My wife and I have exchanged our UK licences to Spanish ones quite recently (this January). I am 70 this month and my old UK one would have expired in a few weeks, BUT my Spanish one doesn't expire until October 2015 AND we didn't have to have any medical, eyesight or other test. But this was Jaén DGT, any other DGT office may be entirely different.


----------



## almendros

The law does not require a medical when you exchange your licence. Trafico publish the requirements clearly on their site and a medical is not mentioned.

There is some logic to this as they would assume that you have met all the UK requirements for medicals when your UK licence was issued - which of course you were as there aren't any!

I don't think is varies between Trafico offices but if you get a gestor to do it they often assume that you have to conform to the renewal rules which do require a medical.

Bearing all this in mind it is no surprise that they is some confusion but bearing in mind the high cost of the medical it is best avoided until it becomes absolutely necessary.


----------



## country boy

Mrs Country Boy has just done hers and her new Spanish license is for 5 years even though her English one would have run out in two years time, so yes, do it before it expires and get a full five years worth! I think the UK one must have at least 6 months life left in it to qualify for exchange though.


----------



## almendros

country boy said:


> Mrs Country Boy has just done hers and her new Spanish license is for 5 years even though her English one would have run out in two years time, so yes, do it before it expires and get a full five years worth! I think the UK one must have at least 6 months life left in it to qualify for exchange though.


Did she have a medical?


----------



## Alcalaina

almendros said:


> *The law does not require a medical when you exchange your licence.* Trafico publish the requirements clearly on their site and a medical is not mentioned.
> 
> There is some logic to this as they would assume that you have met all the UK requirements for medicals when your UK licence was issued - which of course you were as there aren't any!
> 
> I don't think is varies between Trafico offices but if you get a gestor to do it they often assume that you have to conform to the renewal rules which do require a medical.
> 
> Bearing all this in mind it is no surprise that they is some confusion but bearing in mind the high cost of the medical it is best avoided until it becomes absolutely necessary.


You may well be asked to do the sight/coordination test when you exchange your licence if you are over 65 if your UK licence was not issued recently. You can get it done at a health centre and they will charge between about 50 euros (more or less depending where you are).

As said before, it is a bit misleading to call it a medical, it's more like a computer game.


----------



## pladecalvo

xabiachica said:


> you're right
> 
> you don't HAVE to until it expires


Not what I was told. Whilst a UK licence last until you are 70, a Spanish licence must be renewed every 5 years. If you are a resident here, your UK licence is good for a maximum of 5 years or until you are 70 years old (which ever comes first). So lets say that you are 68 years old when you arrive. Your UK licence will have to be changed to a Spanish one within two years. If you are 50 years old, your UK licence is only good for 5 years.

Irrespective, as has been previously stated. You should change your licence to a Spanish one as soon as possible because if you loose it, DVLC will not issue a UK licence to a Spanish address and you will have to sit a Spanish driving test to get a Spanish licence.


----------



## pladecalvo

JoCatalunya said:


> If I wish to change my UK licence to a Spanish one do I have to take a test?


No.



> If I change over will they automatically put the range of vehicles I can drive on my UK licence on my new Spanish one.


Yes.


----------



## pladecalvo

Morten said:


> Honestly, its extremely hard to fail the coordination test ... I turned up half-asleep and deadly hungover, had the coordination of a drunken elephant in a china-shop, scored "perfect" ... and so did everyone else there. If you failed somehow, you could go re-do it the day after....


What is this test?? I exchanged my licence and didn't take any test....or are you referring to a licence renewal rather than an exchange from UK to Spanish?


----------



## pladecalvo

Happyexpat said:


> I have now asked a number of people, who should know the answer, about this driving licence situation in the Alicante area. Same answer every time, you don't need to change it until renewal but if you want to it will only be stamped. Certainly, for the 'stamping' there is no eye test or co-ordination test. From this I can only assume that it must be regional thing as usual but there is a BIG technical BUT in all this.
> The terms of issue of the UK licence are that it must always show your current permanent address which must be a UK one. Now if you have emigrated to Spain with residencia in most cases you won't have a UK address as permanent residence.....I don't want to think about this too much but in terms of legality it is certainly, at least, a grey area.


Exactly! You can't be a resident in two countries. So if the Guardia ask you for your licence and it has a UK address and then they ask you for your residencia, which has a Spanish address...you could have some explaining to do.


----------



## almendros

It is perfectly legal to have an incorrect UK address on your UK licence if you no longer live in the UK.

Spanish driving licences do not show your address.

If you wish to exchange your licence it is exchanged for a Spanish one - the old one is returned to the DVLA.

If you wish to, you can have the details of your UK licence entered onto the Trafico database and in that case they will stamp your UK licence with your NIE number.

If you do not wish to do either, then that's OK but you must conform to the same rules with regard to renewal periods and medical tests.


----------



## Stravinsky

pladecalvo said:


> Exactly! You can't be a resident in two countries. So if the Guardia ask you for your licence and it has a UK address and then they ask you for your residencia, which has a Spanish address...you could have some explaining to do.


You wont have any explaining to do. It's perfectly acceptable.

Just to clarify certain points made recently on this thread:

A UK licence is perfectly acceptable to be used in Spain even if it has a UK address. However it has to fall in with Spanish laws, and that includes that you have to have a current valid "medical" certificate. In effect that is just a coordination or sight check. It has to be done at regular intervals. Without it, in the event of an accident you may find your UK licence is not valid.

Drivers aged:

18 to 45 years - every 10 years
45 - 70 years - every 5 years
70 and above - every 2 years 

Your UK licence doesn't need to be stamped by Traffico. Used to be the case, but not now.

Your UK licence expires at regular 10 year intervals. Its because they want an up to date photograph on it. Check the date on the front of your photo licence. If you miss that date, then your licence has expired. As stated, DVLA wont post a renewed or lost licence to a Spanish address. So you have to have a UK address for it to go to if you want to follow the route of keeping it instead of swapping to a Spanish one.

For me, I have a UK address so it's not a problem, and they actually have a valid address for me rather than (probably) an out of date non contactable address that some of you may have.


----------



## country boy

almendros said:


> Did she have a medical?


Yes she did, it included the anticipation test thingy!


----------



## almendros

Stravinsky said:


> Drivers aged:
> 
> 18 to 45 years - every 10 years
> 45 - 70 years - every 5 years
> 70 and above - every 2 years .


Everything you say is correct except for the renewal periods which recently changed.

For cars and motorcycles it is now every 10 years to 65 and every 5 years thereafter.

There are different rules for other classes of vehicle.


----------



## Happyexpat

*Maybe not*

Well from the previous posts it would appear not at the moment, one of those 'grey' areas where one country says one thing and the other another. No doubt it will all get sorted out and whats the betting it will cost us about 50 euros somewhere along the line.


pladecalvo said:


> Exactly! You can't be a resident in two countries. So if the Guardia ask you for your licence and it has a UK address and then they ask you for your residencia, which has a Spanish address...you could have some explaining to do.


----------



## Stravinsky

almendros said:


> Everything you say is correct except for the renewal periods which recently changed.
> 
> For cars and motorcycles it is now every 10 years to 65 and every 5 years thereafter.
> 
> There are different rules for other classes of vehicle.


Please point me to an official source for that, thanks


----------



## pladecalvo

Oh It's all so complicated!!!! 

I'm just glad that I changed over to a Spanish licence when I became a resident here.


----------



## almendros

Stravinsky said:


> Please point me to an official source for that, thanks


You could ask Fred but alternatively try this

Dirección General de Tráfico : Trámites y Multas: JEFATURA VIRTUAL : Tu permiso de conducción : Renovaciones


----------



## xabiaxica

almendros said:


> You could ask Fred but alternatively try this
> 
> Dirección General de Tráfico : Trámites y Multas: JEFATURA VIRTUAL : Tu permiso de conducción : Renovaciones


I'm putting that link into the first post of the thread - thanks


----------



## youngagepensioner

Stravinsky said:


> You wont have any explaining to do. It's perfectly acceptable.
> 
> Just to clarify certain points made recently on this thread:
> 
> A UK licence is perfectly acceptable to be used in Spain even if it has a UK address. However it has to fall in with Spanish laws, and that includes that you have to have a current valid "medical" certificate. In effect that is just a coordination or sight check. It has to be done at regular intervals. Without it, in the event of an accident you may find your UK licence is not valid.
> 
> Drivers aged:
> 
> 18 to 45 years - every 10 years
> 45 - 70 years - every 5 years
> 70 and above - every 2 years
> 
> Your UK licence doesn't need to be stamped by Traffico. Used to be the case, but not now.
> 
> Your UK licence expires at regular 10 year intervals. Its because they want an up to date photograph on it. Check the date on the front of your photo licence. If you miss that date, then your licence has expired. As stated, DVLA wont post a renewed or lost licence to a Spanish address. So you have to have a UK address for it to go to if you want to follow the route of keeping it instead of swapping to a Spanish one.
> 
> For me, I have a UK address so it's not a problem, and they actually have a valid address for me rather than (probably) an out of date non contactable address that some of you may have.


I too have a valid UK address and renewed my UK licence with no problems (to update the photograph). It now expires a few months before I am 70.


----------



## pladecalvo

Stravinsky said:


> For me, I have a UK address so it's not a problem, and they actually have a valid address for me rather than (probably) an out of date non contactable address that some of you may have.


Yes, this is what I mean. How many people are living in Spain and using a UK licence that has an address on it that they no longer live at. If your licence has an address that you no longer live at...is it a valid UK licence??


----------



## xabiaxica

pladecalvo said:


> Yes, this is what I mean. How many people are living in Spain and using a UK licence that has an address on it that they no longer live at. If your licence has an address that you no longer live at...is it a valid UK licence??


yes Driving in other countries on a GB licence : Directgov - Motoring




> Moving to another country
> 
> If you move to another country, you should check with the driving licence authorities there for information about driving and exchange of licences. You don't need to notify DVLA of a change of address when moving to live abroad.


and since you can legally use your UK license here as long as you follow the spanish rules re:medicals & so on - it's valid


----------



## pladecalvo

xabiachica said:


> yes Driving in other countries on a GB licence : Directgov - Motoring
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and since you can legally use your UK license here as long as you follow the spanish rules re:medicals & so on - it's valid


You have to laugh huh?  It's OK to use a UK licence even if it contains an address that you no longer live at and can't be contacted at. You just couldn't make it up could you??  :clap2:


----------



## Happyexpat

Like I said earlier, clear as mud! Talk about left hand and right hand not knowing etc. One thing that is clear is that a UK drving licence, at the moment, doesn't need to be converted as far as the Spanish are concerned. Probably best left at that so we don't get even more confused.


----------



## Stravinsky

pladecalvo said:


> yes, this is what i mean. How many people are living in spain and using a uk licence that has an address on it that they no longer live at. If your licence has an address that you no longer live at...is it a valid uk licence??



yes


----------



## pladecalvo

Stravinsky said:


> yes


No need to shout! Keep your hair on. :ranger:


----------



## baldilocks

*The next two questions?*

OK so the next question: 

What happens when you've just earned yourself penalty points or a fine but your licence for the service of your penalty (points and or fine) is in UK but you don't live there any more? Do you then get clobbered even harder as a criminal(for trying to avoid the consequences or your motoring misdemeanour)? Can you even be jailed for not having paid your fine or met any other form of punishment?

and the follow-up question:
Why go to all this bother? It is so much easier to have a Spanish licence and you can even use it for ID purposes when you want to pay by card, etc.

Sounds like some people are trying to hide something if they don't want that authorities to know where they are. But then, if they live on the costa criminal...


----------



## pladecalvo

baldilocks said:


> and the follow-up question:
> Why go to all this bother? It is so much easier to have a Spanish licence and you can even use it for ID purposes when you want to pay by card, etc.


Exactly. I can't see the point in having a UK licence if you are living in Spain. Unless of course, you're planning to go back. That's the only advantage I can see in keeping your UK licence.


----------



## pladecalvo

baldilocks said:


> Sounds like some people are trying to hide something if they don't want that authorities to know where they are. But then, if they live on the costa criminal...


I bet we all know at least one Brit that has been living here for years and is still driving a UK registered car with no MOT, no road tax and therefore, no insurance, and who, when stopped by the police, presents a UK licence and claims to be on holiday.


----------



## Happyexpat

*One?*

At least one? Make that at least twenty but at least the Guardia in Alicante are doing something about it! Annoys me as I have paid out to have two vehicles legally imported and even more so on the insurance issue as everybody suffers from that!


pladecalvo said:


> I bet we all know at least one Brit that has been living here for years and is still driving a UK registered car with no MOT, no road tax and therefore, no insurance, and who, when stopped by the police, presents a UK licence and claims to be on holiday.


----------



## jojo

pladecalvo said:


> I bet we all know at least one Brit that has been living here for years and is still driving a UK registered car with no MOT, no road tax and therefore, no insurance, and who, when stopped by the police, presents a UK licence and claims to be on holiday.



The police around our way check brit cars at school drop off/pick up times, working on the theory that parents of school kids arent tourists. I was in a british car with a friend who was visiting when we were stopped and the police insisted on seeing proof of ferry tickets etc.

As I always say, those who drive around like that are a disgrace and should they have a prang or worse will not be covered by insurance - so lets hope they dont kill or maim anyone!! 

Jo xxx


----------



## Happyexpat

I know, or at least hope, it wasn't aimed at me but there doesn't have to be something dodgy or a criminal reason to not change the licence. I haven't simply because the rules at the moment say I don't need to, nothing more or less and certainly nothing sinister. If the rules said I had to do it I would have done so, if they say it in the future I will do so. My UK licence also works 99% of the time for identification....
However I do agree that those running on dodgy English plates probably keep their UK licence for very different reasons!


baldilocks said:


> OK so the next question:
> 
> Sounds like some people are trying to hide something if they don't want that authorities to know where they are. But then, if they live on the costa criminal...


----------



## baldilocks

There was no pointed remark aimed at anyone in particular but for those who do not regularise their residence here (home, car, driving licence, personal presence -Padron, etc.) they are cheating the Spanish government and local Ayuntamiento out of their rightful revenue which means that the rest of us have to pay more. 

What is also quite annoying is they are frequently also the ones who bellyache about the influx of immigrants to the UK who not pay their dues and claim that this was one of the main reasons they left UK. Seems kinda hypocritical to me.

I suppose it will turn out to be another "if the cap fits..."


----------



## xabiaxica

baldilocks said:


> There was no pointed remark aimed at anyone in particular but for those who do not regularise their residence here (home, car, driving licence, personal presence -Padron, etc.) they are cheating the Spanish government and local Ayuntamiento out of their rightful revenue which means that the rest of us have to pay more.
> 
> What is also quite annoying is they are frequently also the ones who bellyache about the influx of immigrants to the UK who not pay their dues and claim that this was one of the main reasons they left UK. Seems kinda hypocritical to me.
> 
> I suppose it will turn out to be another "if the cap fits..."


wandering off topic.................


I happen to agree with all of that - but you don't HAVE to change driving licences, and for many completely law abiding people it is simply better for them not to 

:focus:


----------



## pladecalvo

jojo said:


> The police around our way check brit cars at school drop off/pick up times, working on the theory that parents of school kids arent tourists. I was in a british car with a friend who was visiting when we were stopped and the police insisted on seeing proof of ferry tickets etc.


Good to know they are cracking down. I know of only one that has been caught around these parts...and the police confiscated the vehicle. Serves him right.



> As I always say, those who drive around like that are a disgrace and should they have a prang or worse will not be covered by insurance - so lets hope they dont kill or maim anyone!!


Hear! Hear!


----------



## Stravinsky

baldilocks said:


> There was no pointed remark aimed at anyone in particular but for those who do not regularise their residence here (home, car, driving licence, personal presence -Padron, etc.) they are cheating the Spanish government and local Ayuntamiento out of their rightful revenue which means that the rest of us have to pay more.
> 
> What is also quite annoying is they are frequently also the ones who bellyache about the influx of immigrants to the UK who not pay their dues and claim that this was one of the main reasons they left UK. Seems kinda hypocritical to me.
> 
> I suppose it will turn out to be another "if the cap fits..."


I have done all those things, but I keep my Uk licence because at the end of the day I am British, and I choose to.

In the same way, a Spaniard living in the UK is entitled to keep his Spanish licence under the reciprocal agreement. Thats what reciprocal agreements have a habit of doing ...... equalising things


----------



## pladecalvo

Here's the latest I've heard from the Guardia in Valencia. You can drive a UK registered car in Spain indefinitely PROVIDING it is LEGAL in the country in which it is registered. Whether you are resident in Spain doesn't seem to matter but if you are resident here it means that you will have to take your car back to the UK once a year for MOT and Taxing. 

If you have a UK insurance, it is doubtful whether they will cover you if they know you are living here as most of them will only cover you for driving abroad for a small period of time, such as holidays.

As far as DVLA is concerned, if you take your car abroad for more than 12 month it will be classed as permanently exported and you will have to inform them of this and complete the relevant export documentation. Once this is done you will have no choice but to register it on Spanish plates.

So again...it all comes down to who you talk to but I'd tend to lean toward the 183 day rule.


----------



## mrypg9

My son drove from London to my house in Spain a UK plated car I had left in the UK for a couple of years. I drove it around with MOT and tax until they both expired. I vaguely considered driving back to the UK for tax and MOT but thought it would be too much hassle for a car which was no longer new..
I decided to sell it and insured it pro tem-no problems, I secured in writing a statement that without tax and MOT the car was fully covered -whilst looking for a buyer.
I made sure the vehicle, a smart-looking BMW M3 convertible, was in excellent mechanical condition....after all, I wanted to sell it ASAP.
It wasn't long before I got a good offer from a British woman living not far from me. I gave her all the documents and she said she would complete all the relevant paperwork required from the DVLA and the Spanish authorities and that she would have the vehicle on Spanish plates 'within days'. 
That was well over a year ago and the car, still on UK plates, is on the road in daily use.
Meanwhile, back in the UK, comes a letter from the DVLA requiring either tax renewal or SORN.....
This can be dealt with but it's hassle I don't need - neither does my dil who registered and taxed the car in her name before it was driven here - it had previously been legally SORNed and kept garaged for three years..
Anyone thinking of selling a UK plated car here should ensure that everything required from the purchaser is done to the letter, if that's possible, which it probably isn't..


----------



## xabiaxica

pladecalvo said:


> Here's the latest I've heard from the Guardia in Valencia. You can drive a UK registered car in Spain indefinitely PROVIDING it is LEGAL in the country in which it is registered. Whether you are resident in Spain doesn't seem to matter but if you are resident here it means that you will have to take your car back to the UK once a year for MOT and Taxing.
> 
> If you have a UK insurance, it is doubtful whether they will cover you if they know you are living here as most of them will only cover you for driving abroad for a small period of time, such as holidays.
> 
> As far as DVLA is concerned, if you take your car abroad for more than 12 month it will be classed as permanently exported and you will have to inform them of this and complete the relevant export documentation. Once this is done you will have no choice but to register it on Spanish plates.
> 
> So again...it all comes down to who you talk to but I'd tend to lean toward the 183 day rule.


so if you can't get it insured, which you can't without an MOT(if required ) & tax disc- it's not legal to drive in the UK - therefore it's not legal to drive in spain.....simple

if as far as the DVLA is concerned if it's out of the UK for over 12 months it will be considered exported - therefore not legal in the UK - therefore not legal in spain unless it has been properly exported.............simple


seems to me the DGT & the DVLA agree.....................


----------



## Stravinsky

pladecalvo said:


> Here's the latest I've heard from the Guardia in Valencia. You can drive a UK registered car in Spain indefinitely PROVIDING it is LEGAL in the country in which it is registered. Whether you are resident in Spain doesn't seem to matter but if you are resident here it means that you will have to take your car back to the UK once a year for MOT and Taxing.


So why is it that the Guardia have been seizing UK plated vehicles that are being driven by Spanish residents down South. Why does the British consul tell us that a UK plated car has to be matriculated onto Spanish plates when you come to live here. I've seen links in the past that refer us to sites where we are told you cant drive a UK plated car in Spain if tyou are resident (cant be bothered to look for them again). Frankly some of the Guardia dont even know that a UK licence is valid in Spain from stories I have heard 

I think keeping a Uk plated car and taking it back to the UK for MOT and tax every year is pointless and costly.


----------



## jojo

pladecalvo said:


> Here's the latest I've heard from the Guardia in Valencia. You can drive a UK registered car in Spain indefinitely PROVIDING it is LEGAL in the country in which it is registered. Whether you are resident in Spain doesn't seem to matter but if you are resident here it means that you will have to take your car back to the UK once a year for MOT and Taxing.
> 
> If you have a UK insurance, it is doubtful whether they will cover you if they know you are living here as most of them will only cover you for driving abroad for a small period of time, such as holidays.
> 
> As far as DVLA is concerned, if you take your car abroad for more than 12 month it will be classed as permanently exported and you will have to inform them of this and complete the relevant export documentation. Once this is done you will have no choice but to register it on Spanish plates.
> 
> So again...it all comes down to who you talk to but I'd tend to lean toward the 183 day rule.



The one thing I know for a fact cos it happened to a friend of mine and we had someone on here complain about it, is that if your car is legal in the country its registered in then it is legal here - TO A POINT, in fact you can even get insurance companies who will "say" they will cover you, they will take your money and issue you with a certificate. However, if you're a resident of Spain and you car isnt and you have a prang or worse in it - dont expect to get any cover from the said insurance company - they wont wanna know! So that makes it illegal and a danger to others - So make sure you have enough personal funds to cover any people you may maim for life and theirs and your own family while you're in prison!

Jo xxx


----------



## pladecalvo

Stravinsky said:


> So why is it that the Guardia have been seizing UK plated vehicles that are being driven by Spanish residents down South. Why does the British consul tell us that a UK plated car has to be matriculated onto Spanish plates when you come to live here. I've seen links in the past that refer us to sites where we are told you cant drive a UK plated car in Spain if tyou are resident (cant be bothered to look for them again). Frankly some of the Guardia dont even know that a UK licence is valid in Spain from stories I have heard


Exactly! As I said, it depends who you talk to. I can't for the life of me understand why people won't change their plates if they are living here, well, other than saving the cost of it that is. The sooner those people get rumbled the better.


----------



## Alcalaina

pladecalvo said:


> Exactly! As I said, it depends who you talk to. *I can't for the life of me understand why people won't change their plates* if they are living here, well, other than saving the cost of it that is. The sooner those people get rumbled the better.


The same sort of inertia that stops them sorting out their residencia, padron, SS number, tax status etc ... I've seen it so many times. They start off with good intentions but just keep putting it off. Then they meet someone in a bar or on a forum who says you don´t need to do it because he´s lived here for years and never done it .... :noidea:

Then they have the cheek to accuse the Spanish of having a_ mañana _syndrome!


----------



## pladecalvo

Am I right in thinking that the temporary 110kph speed limit has now been scrapped and we are back to 120kph??

Edit:


OK! Just found that the answer is yes.


----------



## jojo

pladecalvo said:


> Am I right in thinking that the temporary 110kph speed limit has now been scrapped and we are back to 120kph??
> 
> Edit:
> 
> 
> OK! Just found that the answer is yes.


LOL! yes! 

Jo xxx


----------



## VFR

BTW if a certificate of insurance is issued, the said company must cover any third party loss/injury even if the policy holder is deemed to be illegal for this or that (please correct me if I am mistaken)
So in effect that is all that is required by law (?)


I spent 3 months recently in the CDS (Mijas area) and the whole area is awash with UK plated vehicles that have clearly been there for donkeys years, I even saw a high speck BM on UK plates that had a made up number !
What really caught my eye was a smart looking plumbers van often in LaCala that was UK registered & well sign written in Spanish/English that is of course a commercial vehicle which again is totally illegal (is it not)

I also know quite a few people in that area who have been working & paying into the system for a good number of years, but not one of them had a medical card (not one!) 
I of course used to raise this issue on occasion, but they were clearly bored with my attempts so I stopped doing so.
BTW.........As I have a Valencian medical card I assumed that this would cover us for all of Spain, scratched their head and gave me a funny look when produced, same with a prescription issued from here.
A month later I obtained a provisional Andalusian card, so be advised that your card will only allow for emergency treatment should the need arise when visiting another area outside of your own (sorry for going off topic a little)


----------



## Happyexpat

Yeh I have this problem, I visit andalucia for a week every month. My Valencian medica card works for doctors and hospitals but not for Farmacias. I have to go to a doctors, get my prescription written on to an Andalucia one and then I can use it. Universal across Spain, No!


----------



## el pavlo

Alcalaina said:


> The same sort of inertia that stops them sorting out their residencia, padron, SS number, tax status etc ... I've seen it so many times. They start off with good intentions but just keep putting it off. Then they meet someone in a bar or on a forum who says you don´t need to do it because he´s lived here for years and never done it .... :noidea:
> 
> Then they have the cheek to accuse the Spanish of having a_ mañana _syndrome!


It may not be what some people want to hear, but I think it really is easier in the long run to leave the UK car behind and buy one here in Spain.
There are those who will attempt to drive around in a UK car with dubious insurance cover.........but they won't get away with it for ever and sooner or later they will be clobbered by the police or (God forbid) have an uninsured accident which could be life changing for all those involved.


----------



## baldilocks

el pavlo said:


> It may not be what some people want to hear, but I think it really is easier in the long run to leave the UK car behind and buy one here in Spain.
> There are those who will attempt to drive around in a UK car with dubious insurance cover.........but they won't get away with it for ever and sooner or later they will be clobbered by the police or (God forbid) have an uninsured accident which could be life changing for all those involved.


Which is just what a lot of us who *do* play by the rules gripe about. 

It is probably similar to those who just live-together and don't get married "In case it doesn't work out". I agree that there are those whose personal circumstances prevent their marriage (Other half won't divorce) but an awful lot just don't want to commit and if one isn't prepared to commit, then things won't work out!


----------



## fourgotospain

> The one thing I know for a fact cos it happened to a friend of mine and we had someone on here complain about it, is that if your car is legal in the country its registered in then it is legal here - TO A POINT, in fact you can even get insurance companies who will "say" they will cover you, they will take your money and issue you with a certificate. However, if you're a resident of Spain and you car isnt and you have a prang or worse in it - dont expect to get any cover from the said insurance company - they wont wanna know! So that makes it illegal and a danger to others - So make sure you have enough personal funds to cover any people you may maim for life and theirs and your own family while you're in prison!
> 
> Jo xxx


Errmm.....kind of sweeping statement there - our UK plated car last summer still had tax and MOT in date when the insurance ran out so we insured it with a spanish company. Not 2 weeks later someone from Madrid slammed into the side of it rendering it almost undrive-able. Our spanish insurance company were amazing; we paid the excess on OUR policy and they paid for the repair to be done whilst they chased down the money from the other's guys insurance company. Whilst the repair was done, we had a loan car (included in the policy) for up to 3 weeks. 4 months later we got a letter saying it was all paid up and a cheque refunding our excess.


----------



## Alcalaina

fourgotospain said:


> Errmm.....kind of sweeping statement there - our UK plated car last summer still had tax and MOT in date when the insurance ran out so we insured it with a spanish company. Not 2 weeks later someone from Madrid slammed into the side of it rendering it almost undrive-able. Our spanish insurance company were amazing; we paid the excess on OUR policy and they paid for the repair to be done whilst they chased down the money from the other's guys insurance company. Whilst the repair was done, we had a loan car (included in the policy) for up to 3 weeks. 4 months later we got a letter saying it was all paid up and a cheque refunding our excess.


I´m sure it won't be breaking any rules to tell us the name of the company??


----------



## xabiaxica

Alcalaina said:


> I´m sure it won't be breaking any rules to tell us the name of the company??


no it wouldn't be

it IS unusual though

I have known people who thought they were insured on UK plates but suddenly 'weren't' when push came to shove


----------



## pladecalvo

Alcalaina said:


> I´m sure it won't be breaking any rules to tell us the name of the company??


Hear! Hear! I'd love to know the name of this Spanish company that will insure British registered vehicles.


----------



## fourgotospain

The broker is 'Knight Insurance', the company are 'Sun Insurance'??or something similar and they are underwritten by Lloyds of London. Another awesome company we use up here are Hermanos Churro but I'm not sure if they operate elsewhere. We don't just sign on the dotted line, WE ALWAYS, here and in the Uk, read the small print and if we're not 100% happy with the deal we go elsewhere. That approach is something that seems to be taken as 'over picky' here but I'm afraid it's my money so it's done my way.


----------



## xabiaxica

fourgotospain said:


> The broker is 'Knight Insurance', the company are 'Sun Insurance'??or something similar and they are underwritten by Lloyds of London. Another awesome company we use up here are Hermanos Churro but I'm not sure if they operate elsewhere. We don't just sign on the dotted line, WE ALWAYS, here and in the Uk, read the small print and if we're not 100% happy with the deal we go elsewhere. That approach is something that seems to be taken as 'over picky' here but I'm afraid it's my money so it's done my way.


not these??


----------



## fourgotospain

> not these??


HA ha I don't think so! OK maybe Sun Solutions? Are you really going to make me get up and rifle through paperwork?


----------



## jojo

xabiachica said:


> not these??



Are you advertising?????

Seriously tho, I think if people dont want to change their cars to suit the country they live in and to live by the rules of that country, then maybe leaving the UK isnt for them! Surely selling a car and buying a new one isnt hard???? Sorry, but thats how I feel

Jo xxx


----------



## fourgotospain

Here's the link to the broker: Expatriate Insurance - Brokers - Spain - House, Medical, Motor

Jo - my great big people carrier was still cheaper to import and change than sell in the UK and buy here. She's old so she's not worth much there but she'd still be expensive here (like 3 or 4 times the matric fees) and she's big, diesel, reliable, reasonable to insure, service etc and in terms of a 7 seater, hauling bikes, kids to the beach, trips to the cash and carry, moving freezers (I kid you not!) she's priceless. We have bought a tiny spanish runaround too to cut down her miles and we use that for the around town stuff as it's way better on fuel. Once you've had a load space that big you realise how versatile it is. Her replacement will be a Kangoo or Berlingo but we can't afford that for a few years!


----------



## fourgotospain

P.S. Please Miss, Xab said it was ok!


----------



## jojo

fourgotospain said:


> Here's the link to the broker: Expatriate Insurance - Brokers - Spain - House, Medical, Motor
> 
> Jo - my great big people carrier was still cheaper to import and change than sell in the UK and buy here. She's old so she's not worth much there but she'd still be expensive here (like 3 or 4 times the matric fees) and she's big, diesel, reliable, reasonable to insure, service etc and in terms of a 7 seater, hauling bikes, kids to the beach, trips to the cash and carry, moving freezers (I kid you not!) she's priceless. We have bought a tiny spanish runaround too to cut down her miles and we use that for the around town stuff as it's way better on fuel. Once you've had a load space that big you realise how versatile it is. Her replacement will be a Kangoo or Berlingo but we can't afford that for a few years!


As long as its been matriculated and legal to drive in Spain thats fine. I just get annoyed with those who just think its ok (cos its Spain and no-one will care) to drive over in a car and do nothing with it! Its illegal and its those who do it who moan if someone dares do it in the UK.

Jo xxx


----------



## xabiaxica

fourgotospain said:


> Here's the link to the broker: Expatriate Insurance - Brokers - Spain - House, Medical, Motor
> 
> Jo - my great big people carrier was still cheaper to import and change than sell in the UK and buy here. She's old so she's not worth much there but she'd still be expensive here (like 3 or 4 times the matric fees) and she's big, diesel, reliable, reasonable to insure, service etc and in terms of a 7 seater, hauling bikes, kids to the beach, trips to the cash and carry, moving freezers (I kid you not!) she's priceless. We have bought a tiny spanish runaround too to cut down her miles and we use that for the around town stuff as it's way better on fuel. Once you've had a load space that big you realise how versatile it is. Her replacement will be a Kangoo or Berlingo but we can't afford that for a few years!


as long as it's properly imported/matriculated as I know yours is, then IMO that's fine

it's those who just bring their cars over & never 'get legal' who make my hackles rise


----------



## Alcalaina

jojo said:


> Are you advertising?????
> 
> Seriously tho, I think if people dont want to change their cars to suit the country they live in and to live by the rules of that country, then maybe leaving the UK isnt for them! Surely selling a car and buying a new one isnt hard???? Sorry, but thats how I feel
> 
> Jo xxx


Our car was only two years old when we left the UK. We did all the sums and saved about €10,000 by bringing it over and re-registering it. Bit of a no-brainer really!

And she's an Opel/Vauxhall Meriva so no problem getting parts in Spain.


----------



## Happyexpat

*Long term*

I think the point being made (which I agree with) is those people that use UK cars on UK plates for years with no legal insurance, tax or MOT should be stopped, prosecuted and the vehicles scrapped. Unfortunately we are all probably aware of quite a few of them....or at least strongly suspect the situation. 


fourgotospain said:


> Errmm.....kind of sweeping statement there - our UK plated car last summer still had tax and MOT in date when the insurance ran out so we insured it with a spanish company. Not 2 weeks later someone from Madrid slammed into the side of it rendering it almost undrive-able. Our spanish insurance company were amazing; we paid the excess on OUR policy and they paid for the repair to be done whilst they chased down the money from the other's guys insurance company. Whilst the repair was done, we had a loan car (included in the policy) for up to 3 weeks. 4 months later we got a letter saying it was all paid up and a cheque refunding our excess.


----------



## baldilocks

xabiachica said:


> not these??


Xabi, aren't these part of the same crowd who hack into your phone to see if you are a good or bad risk?


----------



## xabiaxica

baldilocks said:


> Xabi, aren't these part of the same crowd who hack into your phone to see if you are a good or bad risk?


think they could be.............which is why I said NOT these


----------



## pladecalvo

fourgotospain said:


> The broker is 'Knight Insurance', the company are 'Sun Insurance'??or something similar and they are underwritten by Lloyds of London. .


You said "we insured it with a spanish company". 'Neither _'Knight Insurance', 'Sun Insurance'_ or _'Lloyds'_ are Spanish. You insured a British registered car with British insurers which is a whole different ball game to insuring a British registered car with a Spanish insurance company.


----------



## andmac

We brought our Ford C-Max over. We marticulated it as to sell in the UK we would get about five grand. To buy here is about nine grand. Now it´s ITV ed and insured here. Our friends ask if it´s difficult to drive. In the countryside it isn´t, on narrow lanes, you can get near the edge of the road when there is oncoming traffic.

Now to legalise our UK bought caravan! The ITV told me that the door being on the "wrong side" is a myth, after all we have not had to move the car´s steering wheel...


----------



## xabiaxica

andmac said:


> We brought our Ford C-Max over. We marticulated it as to sell in the UK we would get about five grand. To buy here is about nine grand. Now it´s ITV ed and insured here. Our friends ask if it´s difficult to drive. In the countryside it isn´t, on narrow lanes, you can get near the edge of the road when there is oncoming traffic.
> 
> Now to legalise our UK bought caravan! The ITV told me that the door being on the "wrong side" is a myth, after all we have not had to move the car´s steering wheel...


let us know how you get on with the caravan, it's a question that comes up a lot


----------



## VFR

If *a car* is insured & named on an Insurance Policy (registration number) then it is insured as far as any third party is concerned.
Of course the Company issuing the policy are very likely to reject out of hand any losses incurred by the policy holder if they are in breach of the Terms & Conditions, IE no tax/MOT/illegal tyres/nodding dog etc, regardless of who was at fault, in fact they may well look to recover any costs made to a third party via the courts.

So that being the case (I believe I am correct) then just why do so many get annoyed with the ex-pat who keeps a vehicle on UK plates, it is their lookout surly.

Now an *uninsured* vehicle is another matter !


----------



## Happyexpat

I think this has to be answered. I get annoyed because if a person is out here permanently on a UK reg plate then the insurance is not legal (actually not a lot else is either unless they take it every year to the UK) it is a straight up fraud. With a few notablei exceptions the maximum period is 90 days abroad, the car has to be based at a UK address for UK insurance. Maybe repeat maybe they will cover a third party claim but more than likely, as per the terms and conditions, they will report it as a fraudulent application.
To turn the question round I can't see why people just don't honestly import the vehicle when they arrive (no import duty to pay) and make sure they are fully legal in all respects.
It's not often I see things in black and white, there are usually shades of grey, but motor insurance is not one of those areas, I have seen first hand the problems and suffering caused!


----------



## baldilocks

playamonte said:


> Now an *uninsured* vehicle is another matter !


But that is the whole point, how do we know whether it is uninsured or not? There was an old wreck of a Transit running [clattering, creaking, crawling] around here used by some builders who eventually did a runner with someone's deposit on a roofing job. It had no tax and from the state of it, probably no valid MOT... It quite possibly had no valid insurance either...


----------



## baldilocks

Happyexpat said:


> I think this has to be answered. I get annoyed because if a person is out here permanently on a UK reg plate then the insurance is not legal (actually not a lot else is either unless they take it every year to the UK) it is a straight up fraud. With a few notablei exceptions the maximum period is 90 days abroad, the car has to be based at a UK address for UK insurance. Maybe repeat maybe they will cover a third party claim but more than likely, as per the terms and conditions, they will report it as a fraudulent application.
> To turn the question round I can't see why people just don't honestly import the vehicle when they arrive (no import duty to pay) and make sure they are fully legal in all respects.
> It's not often I see things in black and white, there are usually shades of grey, but motor insurance is not one of those areas, I have seen first hand the problems and suffering caused!


I just don't see why people can't play by the rules - vehicles, residency, padron, etc, etc. It's not difficult and as easy to play by them as not. They are the types who, back in UK, probably went around in an uninsured vehicle with no MOT and a false tax disc, etc.


----------



## VFR

Happyexpat said:


> I think this has to be answered. I get annoyed because if a person is out here permanently on a UK reg plate then the insurance is not legal (actually not a lot else is either unless they take it every year to the UK) it is a straight up fraud. With a few notablei exceptions the maximum period is 90 days abroad, the car has to be based at a UK address for UK insurance. Maybe repeat maybe they will cover a third party claim but more than likely, as per the terms and conditions, they will report it as a fraudulent application.
> To turn the question round I can't see why people just don't honestly import the vehicle when they arrive (no import duty to pay) and make sure they are fully legal in all respects.
> It's not often I see things in black and white, there are usually shades of grey, but motor insurance is not one of those areas, I have seen first hand the problems and suffering caused!


Yes I make you right & have myself suffered a hospital stay/losses from an uninsured driver in the UK.


----------



## VFR

baldilocks said:


> But that is the whole point, how do we know whether it is uninsured or not? There was an old wreck of a Transit running [clattering, creaking, crawling] around here used by some builders who eventually did a runner with someone's deposit on a roofing job. It had no tax and from the state of it, probably no valid MOT... It quite possibly had no valid insurance either...


******ed if I know ? 
Still how do I know that you have insurance when you drive past, or for that matter me ?

Spain seems content to allow the vast amount of Insurance Company's that regularly advertise directly to the Ex-Pat community offering insurance for what are mostly illegal vehicles in Spain, and I guess knowing that they must pay out to a third party in any issue.

While we are on the subject just how many have not filled a tax return this year ?, yes to many I fancy & that is simply outrageous/downright illegal and they should be dragged before the courts to explain themselves (should they not?)


----------



## andmac

Happyexpat said:


> I think this has to be answered. I get annoyed because if a person is out here permanently on a UK reg plate then the insurance is not legal (actually not a lot else is either unless they take it every year to the UK) it is a straight up fraud. With a few notablei exceptions the maximum period is 90 days abroad, the car has to be based at a UK address for UK insurance. Maybe repeat maybe they will cover a third party claim but more than likely, as per the terms and conditions, they will report it as a fraudulent application.
> To turn the question round I can't see why people just don't honestly import the vehicle when they arrive (no import duty to pay) and make sure they are fully legal in all respects.
> It's not often I see things in black and white, there are usually shades of grey, but motor insurance is not one of those areas, I have seen first hand the problems and suffering caused!


I don´t know about answering this. I think you have summed it up quite succinctly. Well done.


----------



## pladecalvo

playamonte said:


> While we are on the subject just how many have not filled a tax return this year ?, yes to many I fancy & that is simply outrageous/downright illegal and they should be dragged before the courts to explain themselves (should they not?)


I have!!! Do I get a gold star?? :eyebrows:


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## Happyexpat

*Absolutely*

In these days paying your taxes seems to be a rarity so I reckon you should get a platinum star, only trouble is the Government can't can't afford it as people aren't paying their taxes......


pladecalvo said:


> I have!!! Do I get a gold star?? :eyebrows:


----------



## xabiaxica

ahem............ DRIVING in Spain thread..... :focus:


----------



## JoCatalunya

Right folks, who knows the answer to this one.

When wishing to turn left at a roundabout, should you a) use the centre lane, [as you do in the UK] b) use the outside lane, c) make a lane up and drive round with your hand wedged against the horn.


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## baldilocks

JoCatalunya said:


> Right folks, who knows the answer to this one.
> 
> When wishing to turn left at a roundabout, should you a) use the centre lane, [as you do in the UK] b) use the outside lane, c) make a lane up and drive round with your hand wedged against the horn.


Yes!


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## stevelin

Ive been told to use the outside lane as if you change lanes as you would using the UK system and you have an accident YOUR in the wrong so thats why the Spanish just go round on the outside!!!!


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## JoCatalunya

stevelin said:


> Ive been told to use the outside lane as if you change lanes as you would using the UK system and you have an accident YOUR in the wrong so thats why the Spanish just go round on the outside!!!!


So why do they have at least 2 lanes entering, going round and exiting the roundabouts in Spain?


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## Happyexpat

Well the obvious answer out here is a hand on the horn. Remember when you pass your test out here use of indicators or horn are optional in the training.
Being serious there is a complicated answer to your question. Technically and legally it's the same as the UK but in Spain, as far as insurance Co's are concerned, the car in the outside lane is always right. Get out of that!


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## Alcalaina

JoCatalunya said:


> So why do they have at least 2 lanes entering, going round and exiting the roundabouts in Spain?


So they can cut round in front of you if they´re in a hurry ....


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## Classified

*Info on Transfer of Ownership on a Car*

Hi Jo and the Moderators

Feel free to use the info below if you are thinking of buying a used car. A lot of expats buy of one another. Print it off.

I carried this out without speaking a word of Spanish just in case people have not yet learned the language or do not feel confident yet. Also if you are not confident with a computer try and get some help of a friend.

Two documents you need to print off via the Internet, type/or copy and paste the following link into your search box and press the arrow to the right to search.

Dirección General de Tráfico : Trámites y Multas: JEFATURA VIRTUAL : Tu coche : Cambio de titularidad

1. A document will appear, go to the bottom of the page, click Solicitud De Transmission De Vehiculo, the form that appears will be Cambio De Titularidad, print this off, and you can show it at the Hacienda Office so they know what you are there for. This form also confirms the documents you need. 

Go back to the previous page at the bottom click on the word Castellano under the one you have just clicked on, to the right of a globe

2. A form will appear, print this off, a Solicitud De Transmission De Vehiculo, and print, you will have to fill the top bit on both sides and the seller has fill in the bottom bit on both sides. You do not need the second page.

At the bottom of the form both parties sign in the appropriate boxes, the buyer is the adquirente and the seller is the transmitente. Once the forms are completed place on your printer and make a couple of copies.

The seller will give you their documents.

You can take both the buyers and the sellers’ documents on your own to Malaga

BUYER 
Signed Bill of sale* 
Completed Solicitud De Transmision*	
Original Passport* 
Original NIE* 
Original latest Padron* 


SELLER
Green ITV Inspection Booklet
Light Blue Permiso De Conduccion
Latest Car Tax paid at town hall
A copy of Passport*
A copy of NIE*
A copy of latest Padron*


Take an extra copy of these documents marked with a * to be on the safe side and a black biro

1.Head for the Hacienda De La Junta De Andalusia, 22 C/Compositor Lembherg Ruiz, Malaga, 29007. Ten minutes from the bus station or train stations, car parking outside or under the building.

Your bags will be searched upon entrance, go to info desk on your left, show them the form I mentioned above. You will be given ticket number, wait your turn. At the desk start with the completed Solicitud De Transmision De Vehiculo and your Padron. They finish by handing you 3 stamped documents (Modelo 621), keep your ticket number and look behind you there is a Unica bank to pay your fee for size, age, value of car which is typed on the documents, wait till you number appears again. Time, 30 minutes.

2.
Head To The Trafico Office, 12 Calle De Max Estrella, 29006, Fifteen minutes by bus, taxi or car, there is parking nearby, the traffic attendant charges 1-euro max. Upon entering the building go straight to the queue on your left, to pay 51 euros to Trafico via the Caja Bank, hand over the 2 stamped forms (Modelo 621) from the previous place. Once again you will be given a ticket number and a receipt for the payment Go into the hall and wait your turn. Your number will come up and next to the number of desk to go to. At the desk hand over the receipt and at this point you will be handing over or showing a majority of your paperwork. If the computers are working they will print of your new paperwork there and then, if not they will send them to your home address. Your receipt is proof that the paperwork is being sent should the police stop you whilst driving. Time, 45 minutes.

I would still advise headphones to drown out the Spanish so called talking to one another. Especially in the Trafico building.

The original quotes to carry out the above from a couple of Gestorias where I live was 325 euros and 350 euros. My breakdown doing this myself is as follows

Hacienda and Trafico Office 233.40 euros
Return travelling expenses, diesel, parking fees and a cup of coffee	21.10 euros
Total 254.50 euros (saving of approx 95.50 euros)

This total is for my 2.2 People Carrier, however you could save a lot more: if your car has a smaller engine, live closer, use buses etc. Up to 200 euros.

Finally I felt really good trying this for myself, the work carried by my Gestor is by emailing, scanning and postage, this does not warrant 95,50 euros in my book.

I apologise for my grimmer and my pellinsg.

Moderators get ready.:boxing:


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## Beachcomber

I was just wondering at what stage you checked to ensure that there were no fines or taxes outstanding on the vehicle or whether it was subject of a hire purchase agreement or any other type of embargo.


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## Classified

Here we go, I was informed at the Hacienda office, I wouldn't have gone any further should there had been any, as that is where all fines are to be paid etc.

I apologise to the translators out there but people need a choice sometime.

Ready for the next question.


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## gus-lopez

You mentioned before that you live in a small village but If I was using an gestoria I certainly wouldn't be expecting him to use the correos ! I'm paying him to go there. Therefore it's his time taken your paying for . Here, whatever I give the gestoria tonight is fully completed & can be collected by tomorrow evening. At Trafíco if the paperwork is in before 11a.m, it's ready by 2p.m.

've done most of these things myself , mainly re-registering vehicles & trailers & ended up doing the ITv, road tax payments, etc; & leaving the Trafíco to the gestoria , so reducing the charges to not much more than it would cost me to travel the 80+kms to Murcia + time etc. If there was any fees to be paid to Hacienda this can all be done in the gestorias office & he does it by internet transfers. 
It obviously varies from office to office as in Murcia Hacienda , where it can take 15mins first thing in the morning just to get in, you are given a ticket for your turn at one of the office desks. Once the tax payment, if any , is sorted then you have to take a different ticket to pay at the bank in there. Once you've paid & got receipt you then have to take a different ticket to get the whole lot stamped proving that you've paid. 
Also if there's vehicle tax not up to date then that can't be paid at the Murcia Hacienda but has to be paid at the Lorca Hacienda . Get that wrong & you have now doubled your trips. :nono:
I used to like it at first , it was quite enjoyable but the endless waiting , especially when the systems go down , can leave you without the will to live.


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## Beachcomber

Well, you do it your way but I certainly wouldn't buy a second hand vehicle without checking its legal status for myself. Debts can take several months or even longer to be registered with AEAT. 

At €34.50 plus IVA it doesn't seem to be a too great a price to pay for piece of mind:

Informes del Registro de Bienes Muebles,


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## Classified

Both your choices. I have already stated in the list of documents required off the seller, is an up to date townhall tax form. No debt at Hacienda buy the car, debt at the Hacienda don't buy the car.

Why is everyone set against people doing it for themselves. Is it to be kept a secret!!! Oh and I have just saved myself €34.50 according to Beachcomber, Maybe I might get someone on this forum that actually has a positive reply instead of all the negative ones. 

Weebles wobble but they don't fall down. I think i am being monitored whilst i even reply.


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## MacRov

Keep the info coming bud, nothing wrong with having all the info to have the choice of both options.


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## Classified

MacRov said:


> Keep the info coming bud, nothing wrong with having all the info to have the choice of both options.


Thank you for your comments


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## gus-lopez

Classified said:


> Both your choices. I have already stated in the list of documents required off the seller, is an up to date townhall tax form. No debt at Hacienda buy the car, debt at the Hacienda don't buy the car.
> 
> Why is everyone set against people doing it for themselves. Is it to be kept a secret!!! Oh and I have just saved myself €34.50 according to Beachcomber, Maybe I might get someone on this forum that actually has a positive reply instead of all the negative ones.
> 
> Weebles wobble but they don't fall down. I think i am being monitored whilst i even reply.


No I've every respect for you & anyone doing it themselves. The feeling of accomplishment is immense. I did that many for friends , that mostly weren't here, & unpaid that it becomes a grind & now I wouldn't do it even if I was being paid.

I do have to agree with Beachy though as unless you've got something in writing from the Hacienda a debt could still appear that was in the process & not shown anywhere.


----------



## xabiaxica

Classified said:


> Both your choices. I have already stated in the list of documents required off the seller, is an up to date townhall tax form. No debt at Hacienda buy the car, debt at the Hacienda don't buy the car.
> 
> Why is everyone set against people doing it for themselves. Is it to be kept a secret!!! Oh and I have just saved myself €34.50 according to Beachcomber, Maybe I might get someone on this forum that actually has a positive reply instead of all the negative ones.
> 
> Weebles wobble but they don't fall down. I think i am being monitored whilst i even reply.


I think this is a really useful thread

I'm going to leave it here for the time being, but it will be added to the 'Driving in Spain' sticky when it 'dries up' - so that it doesn't get lost


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## Beachcomber

I'm all for people doing things for themselves. I do it all the time, not particularly to save money but because I have no confidence whatsoever in the ability of so-called professionals whose job it is supposed to be to carry out such work. However, I reiterate that anyone going through this procedure should be aware that information held by AEAT on any particular vehicle cannot be relied upon to be up to date.

It takes at least a couple of months for notification of an unpaid traffic fine to be published in the provincial bulletin and far longer for it to go through various procedures before it reaches the stage where it is passed to AEAT for action to attempt to recover the funds from the offender's bank account. Fines accumulated in the meanwhile will obviously not be held on AEAT records neither will the fact that a vehicle is subject of a leasing or finance agreement. Neither should it be assumed that, just because the receipt for the most recent bill for municipal circulation tax is produced by the seller, there are no taxes outstanding for previous years. This should be checked with the relevant Town Hall or, when appropriate, the Patronato de Recaudación.

The Registro de Bienes Muebles to which I gave the link in my previous post is an official organisation and any certificate issued is valid and current up to the date of issue. There is obviously no obligation to use this service and whilst electing not to do so may save just over forty euros now it could lead to a whole load of trouble and expense at a later date. 

I entirely agree with the OP about doing things for oneself and I am at a loss to understand why he has apparently been antagonised by the information and caveats which I am trying to impart.


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## mrypg9

It's simple. We have choices. We don't need to be told that.
Some of us whilst being perfectly capable of doing things for ourselves prefer not to.
Nothing to do with laziness, more money than sense, inability to use a computer/speak Spanish and so on.
It's a choice.
Those who exercise their right to choose the gestor path are not suffering from sloth or moral turpitude. It's a preference.
Some of us are working, others involved in non-remunerative but equally time-consuming activities and just don't have the time to spend a day sorting out stuff we are willing to pay someone else to do.
Transferring ownership of my car is the only thing I haven't done myself. But I did the other necessary things the week I got here and since then I've got involved in things that are more enjoyable than sitting around in offices.
Btw, isn't there information about this process already on here somewhere? I seem to have read it and having done so decided to use the services of my gestor - the fee was 160 euros.
I have found interaction with Spanish bureaucracy painless and complication-free. Quite unlike the situation in the Czech Republic and other former Soviet-bloc states of which I have had experience. Most procedures here in Spain seem relatively straightforward as long as you arm yourself with all the documents required plus a few more for luck.
Spain isn't Afghanistan, Ethiopia or even Poland....


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## Classified

gus-lopez said:


> No I've every respect for you & anyone doing it themselves. The feeling of accomplishment is immense. I did that many for friends , that mostly weren't here, & unpaid that it becomes a grind & now I wouldn't do it even if I was being paid.
> 
> I do have to agree with Beachy though as unless you've got something in writing from the Hacienda a debt could still appear that was in the process & not shown anywhere.


When was the last time you were there? 

Some of the posts are frightening people. Just because you found it a grind, it might not be for other people, like myself. 

If a debt came through that would be because you have done a deal and let the seller take the information from you and they have decided not to declare any debts, that is why i went myself.


----------



## mrypg9

Classified said:


> When was the last time you were there?
> 
> *Some of the posts are frightening people.* Just because you found it a grind, it might not be for other people, like myself.
> 
> If a debt came through that would be because you have done a deal and let the seller take the information from you and they have decided not to declare any debts, that is why i went myself.



And some could be construed as unnecessarily confusing people.
Time to close this thread?
The information is available elsewhere on this forum and elsewhere on the net.


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## jojo

Classified said:


> When was the last time you were there?
> 
> Some of the posts are frightening people. Just because you found it a grind, it might not be for other people, like myself.


"Frightening" is a little strong, but advocating caution is important!! Buying and selling cars in Spain is a minefield! I personally wouldnt dream of doing either without a gestoria. Those who understand spanish law, spanish car registration, written and spoken spanish and have the time - and enjoy a challenge, may wish to have a go and for those, your post is invaluable!! 

Jo xxx


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## xabiaxica

mrypg9 said:


> And some could be construed as unnecessarily confusing people.
> Time to close this thread?
> The information is available elsewhere on this forum and elsewhere on the net.


no, not time to close it - although perhaps it's not the place to discuss opinions & feelings - just the facts


& yes, the info is available both here & elsewhere - but as we all know the goalposts move constantly & someone's actual experience is always useful


----------



## gus-lopez

Classified said:


> When was the last time you were there?
> 
> Some of the posts are frightening people. Just because you found it a grind, it might not be for other people, like myself.
> 
> If a debt came through that would be because you have done a deal and let the seller take the information from you and they have decided not to declare any debts, that is why i went myself.


5 months. Tell me that after you've done 25 or 30 .


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## Classified

Hi Folks, just remembered when you do a bill of sale, make sure the following is on it.

The date
Both Sellers and Buyers addresses
Both Sellers and Buyers NIE numbers
Boths Sellers and Buyers Names Printed and Signatures
Vehicle Make
Vehicle Model
Registration Number
Kilometres
The selling price

The Spanish like it done this way.


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## baldilocks

Classified said:


> Hi Folks, just remembered when you do a bill of sale, make sure the following is on it.
> The date
> Both Sellers and Buyers address
> Vehicle Make
> Vehicle Model
> Registration Number
> Kilometres
> The selling price


and NIE/NIF?
and VIN!


----------



## mrypg9

gus-lopez said:


> 5 months. Tell me that after you've done 25 or 30 .


Quite.
If you think you have information to give it's essntial it's COMPREHENSIVE and ACCURATE.
If I wanted to know something I'd pm Xabi, Gus, Strav, Baldy, PW, Jo...the 'old timers'.
And of course Beachcomber.


----------



## xabiaxica

mrypg9 said:


> Quite.
> If you think you have information to give it's essntial it's COMPREHENSIVE and ACCURATE.
> If I wanted to know something I'd pm Xabi, Gus, Strav, Baldy, PW, Jo...the 'old timers'.
> And of course Beachcomber.


no point asking me about cars


----------



## xabiaxica

baldilocks said:


> and NIE/NIF?
> and VIN!


I do believe he mentioned the NIE previously


lets leave the one-upmanship for now shall we folks?

we all know that things change here with the wind - he's only trying to help by recounting his experience, which we all know might be different to your experience, even though the basic requirements are the same


I can tell someone today what to take to register at the docs (as I did in a post this morning) & that info might have changed since last time I dealt with it - but it won't be far wrong.................although it might be totally different in, say, Madrid

all info from personal experience is useful, though, surely?


----------



## VFR

One of the reasons that I use my local Gestor.

Its cheap & sometimes cheaper than than going backwards & forwards to offices that are often miles away.
If they mess up they are obliged to sort it.
Most (if not all) of the Spanish I know use them & they also prefer the security of using them for important issues.

Of course I do most mundane things myself & have always found the officials that I have dealt with to be quite helpful, but if its important like Tax Declaration 30eu, or the Driving Licence change 30eu again where in this case you really need a certified record of your entitlements on your former licence as its not unknown for mistakes to be made and find that some have disappeared (even in the UK it happens)
Same when I bought this car as we both sat there (seller & buyer) while all documents etc etc were recorded and checked & I could then be assured that any issues arising were not my issues.


----------



## mrypg9

Personal experiences can be interesting but they are not always useful as circumstances vary so much from region to region and even from town to town.
Our village has a Tenencia where you can get quite a few things done and you can usually walk straight in, no waiting.
When I lost my tarjeta the friendly receptionist at our village health centre told me she would arrange a replacement -which duly arrived in less than two weeks.
People living in larger towns and cities will have totally different experiences.
When it comes to documentation needed for various things, it's essential to go direct to source for the latest up-to-date information.
Well-meaning people often get things wrong, as evidenced by the false information about driving in Spain on a UK licence.


----------



## Classified

mrypg9 said:


> Personal experiences can be interesting but they are not always useful as circumstances vary so much from region to region and even from town to town.
> Our village has a Tenencia where you can get quite a few things done and you can usually walk straight in, no waiting.
> When I lost my tarjeta the friendly receptionist at our village health centre told me she would arrange a replacement -which duly arrived in less than two weeks.
> People living in larger towns and cities will have totally different experiences.
> When it comes to documentation needed for various things, it's essential to go direct to source for the latest up-to-date information.
> Well-meaning people often get things wrong, as evidenced by the false information about driving in Spain on a UK licence.


The reason why I and my friends have decided not use a Gestoria is because they charge too much, as i Keep saying people have the choice of how they want to use the system in Spain,/SNIP/


----------



## jojo

So, to conclude. If you wish to "have a go" without using a Gestor, it can be done and this post gives great tips and advise (subject to change!). If you find the process too daunting, then you can use one!

Jo xxx


----------



## xabiaxica

*updated info on UKinSpain website*

they have recently had a meeting with the head of Trafico & updated the website

Driving licences and vehicles






thanks Strav


----------



## Stravinsky

xabiachica said:


> they have recently had a meeting with the head of Trafico & updated the website
> 
> Driving licences and vehicles
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thanks Strav


Ha
Yes I was just coming on here to put the link up. I now have a contact in the Consul who is able to give me info

The main points seem to be that you do NOT have to have a UK photo licence endorsed by trafico. Recent rumours indicated that someone had been fined €500 for not having this done.

and

Curiously, it seems to state that you do not need to have a medical test to validate your UK licence. I always believed that you did, and I have asked the consul to verify that this is correct


----------



## Aspire To Be

*Driving in Spain*

Hi everyone,
I am moving over to Spain at the beginning of January and have been trying to buy a left hand drive automatic with little luck. So I will probably have to drive my right hand drive over there. I have been advised to get my car re MOT'd to give me 12 months before I have to return for another, find a left hand drive or register mine in Spain. But, I'm sure I've heard of some kind of legal alternative for UK cars which can be purchased in Spain. I know I can't get their equivelent. Just want to know if it is worthwhile getting an extra MOT as I have 6 months left on the one I've got. In such a hurry that I have little time to do any more searches. Need to keep as many options open as possible as I believe that selling my UK car over there will be complicated too. Unless I am happy to pay a fortune or really lose out on it's value. 
Would really appreciate any feedback. Thanks


----------



## country boy

Are you coming down here to live permanently and make this your primary place of residence?


----------



## Aspire To Be

Yes


----------



## Aspire To Be

Yes...I' moving over to live in Spain permanently


----------



## Seb*

Aspire To Be said:


> Hi everyone,
> I am moving over to Spain at the beginning of January and have been trying to buy a left hand drive automatic with little luck. So I will probably have to drive my right hand drive over there. I have been advised to get my car re MOT'd to give me 12 months before I have to return for another, find a left hand drive or register mine in Spain. But, I'm sure I've heard of some kind of legal alternative for UK cars which can be purchased in Spain. I know I can't get their equivelent. Just want to know if it is worthwhile getting an extra MOT as I have 6 months left on the one I've got. In such a hurry that I have little time to do any more searches. Need to keep as many options open as possible as I believe that selling my UK car over there will be complicated too. Unless I am happy to pay a fortune or really lose out on it's value.
> Would really appreciate any feedback. Thanks


From what I read in your post, you are aware that driving a UK registered car in spain as a spanish resident is illegal - so that is clear. If you are planning to be illegal on spanish roads it makes sense to get a fresh MOT, cause the guardia WILL check for dates on MOT and tax (so make sure you are able to get up to date tax discs as well). In any way I would suggest to get a fresh MOT, in case you want to sell your UK car in Spain (yes most 2nd hand car dealers on the costas will offer to part exchange uk cars).

So now to the legal alternatives:

1.) Re-register your RHD down here for a price (if you let a company do it, it's not a big hassle, but costly)
2.) Buy a LHD car in the UK, there are specialised LHD centres in the UK, google it!
3.) Drive down in your RHD and sell/part exchange it down here to a 2nd hand car dealer and get a LHD car from there (you won't get much value for your RHD!)
4.) Sell your RHD in the UK (where it is worth much more money!), fly down (or one way car/van hire) and buy a 2nd hand LHD here. Buying from dealers is quick and painless, they will even arrange insurance for you on the spot! Buying a 2nd hand car privately can be a bit daunting for new arrivals - it's hugely different to how it works in the UK!

That's the only way. Be aware that as a spanish resident you are not allowed to drive a foreign registered car for more than 30 days (then it has to be re-matriculated) and as non-resident a foreign registered car is not allowed to be on the road for more than 180 out of 365 days per year.

Saying all this a lot of expats are driving illegal cars around here, so you might get a lot of "good" advise from the friendly man next to you in the pub, telling you it's no prob to run a RHD car on UK plates in Spain, cause he has done so for 20 years. The Guardia Civil is looking out more and more for UK plated cars and they are pulling them over and then good luck proving to them, that you are "just on holiday". And yes they know how to read a UK tax disc! The lack of tax discs on UK cars in our area amazes me each time I see it.

When we came over here I was using my UK car (fully taxed and insured!) for several months after we arrived and I was constantly on the lookout for traffic controls, not a nice feeling! I was very happy when I traded it for a spanish registered car


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## Aspire To Be

Thanks for that. I have no intention of doing anything illegal. I was informed that I could keep my UK registered car in Spain for upto 6 months. So the 30 day thing is well worth knowing. I have tried several lhd dealers in the Uk. But automatic cars are few and far between. Plus I spent a whole day travelling, test driving on saturday...only to find that I was on a wild goose chase as the car was unroadworthy. Don't have the time for this kind of thing as moving out of my home in one week! It's a shame I can't find a lhd here as I have good offers on my UK car! Flying over is no longer an option as the ferry, hotel on route, etc are booked and paid for.
I really appreciate the info re legality.


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## country boy

This is a Precis of our own experiences and factual information. As an incoming resident you are allowed to drive your own UK car on Spanish roads ( provided it is road legal in it's country of origin) for 6 months. You will be able to import and re-register that vehicle onto Spanish plates during this time without import duty, providing it is your primary means of transport. The only caveat is that the vehicle is EU certified, ie. It conforms to the current EU regulations. Which, assuming it was purchased in the UK, it most likely will be. A Gestor here will do all the paperwork for you here at minimal cost. We drive a RH drive vehicle here and have done so for 12 years with no problem.


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## Alcalaina

Aspire To Be said:


> Thanks for that. I have no intention of doing anything illegal. I was informed that I could keep my UK registered car in Spain for upto 6 months. So the 30 day thing is well worth knowing.


I think it's 30 days once you become resident, not 30 days after you arrive, so you have six months + 30 days. I know when we did it it was a mad rush and we couldn't have done it without assistance - so much paperwork! But worth it though, as the car was nearly new then and is still going strong. It's a Vauxhall (Opel) and getting it serviced here is very much cheaper than in the UK.


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## Aspire To Be

*driving to spain*

Wow! Thanks for all that guys


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## mrypg9

For what it's worth....

We bought a LHD 4x4 (LR from a very reputable LHD specialist in the UK) .If you are interested and want to pm me I will give details - I'm not allowed to advertise but this place has been recommended by posters on this forum. (I am not the owner's wife, mum, etc. just a very satisfied customer).
When we bought the car it was already on Spanish plates and I was provided with all the paperwork necessary to transfer ownership to my name, which process cost less than 200 euros via our Gestor. The car was delivered to me in Prague for a very reasonable cost and we drove it here. .
It is quite correct that after a certain period you should not drive a UK -registered car in Spain. You will be able to get it insured -in Spain it's the vehicle that's insured, not the owner, but you will be committing an offence...you personally so your car could be impounded..
Besides, I'm sure you'll want to do the right things here.
Having a LHD car from a reputable UK dealer saved us a lot of headaches here. Although we were in the trade we know very little about the mechanics of vehicles and would most likely have been sold a pile of junk.


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## xabiaxica

mrypg9 said:


> For what it's worth....
> 
> We bought a LHD 4x4 (LR from a very reputable LHD specialist in the UK) .If you are interested and want to pm me I will give details - I'm not allowed to advertise but this place has been recommended by posters on this forum. (I am not the owner's wife, mum, etc. just a very satisfied customer).
> When we bought the car it was already on Spanish plates and I was provided with all the paperwork necessary to transfer ownership to my name, which process cost less than 200 euros via our Gestor. The car was delivered to me in Prague for a very reasonable cost and we drove it here. .
> It is quite correct that after a certain period you should not drive a UK -registered car in Spain. You will be able to get it insured -in Spain it's the vehicle that's insured, not the owner, but you will be committing an offence...you personally so your car could be impounded..
> Besides, I'm sure you'll want to do the right things here.
> Having a LHD car from a reputable UK dealer saved us a lot of headaches here. Although we were in the trade we know very little about the mechanics of vehicles and would most likely have been sold a pile of junk.


As a regular poster you CAN recommend a good company on the forum


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## Aspire To Be

*pm*



xabiachica said:


> As a regular poster you CAN recommend a good company on the forum


I assume pm means personal message? Not quite to grips with procedures as I only joined yesterday and am 'chasing my tail' with so many things right now. As this other person said you can recommend the company, can you just do that here please? Thanks


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## jojo

Aspire To Be said:


> I assume pm means personal message? Not quite to grips with procedures as I only joined yesterday and am 'chasing my tail' with so many things right now. As this other person said you can recommend the company, can you just do that here please? Thanks


You can recommend once you are a regular poster. The reason we have these rules is simply because no one wants to be bombarded with "recommendations" that transpire to be companies covertly advertising. It happens quite often on here and it doesnt make for an unbiased forum - which we pride ourselves on being! So if thats what you are doing - dont, but if your not then its fine LOL!!!!!

Hello and welcome by the way 

Jo xxx


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## baldilocks

Apart from your MoT and Vehicle excise licence (tax disc) which must both be valid, you must make sure that your insurance company *knows* that it is covering you for an extended period in Spain (or wherever) many, while covering you for short trips (e.g. holiday) wince and/or refuse if it is for longer. Your existing "green card" is not valid for extended stays.

What it basically comes down to is make sure you are legal. You would complain if you were hit in the UK by an untaxed, uninsured vehicle with no MoT, so why expect to get away with it here - being legal is usually cheaper in the long run (you could even end up with your vehicle confiscated and destroyed - ouch!).

If you are going to be here for any length of time, you will find it much easier to cope (especially with the way Spaniards drive - partly the fault of driving schools) if you have a LHD vehicle.


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## Heston

Thanks to all who have contributed to the mass of driving and licence information available here - although i still have a query - i mentioned on another thread that i will hopefully be registering my UK licence here in Spain - though the question i have is as i have HGV2 entitlement in UK, will all classes be automatically registered or would i have to take further action? Many Thanks in advance...


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## gus-lopez

Heston said:


> Thanks to all who have contributed to the mass of driving and licence information available here - although i still have a query - i mentioned on another thread that i will hopefully be registering my UK licence here in Spain - though the question i have is as i have HGV2 entitlement in UK, will all classes be automatically registered or would i have to take further action? Many Thanks in advance...


Not necessarily . First thing ensure you have complete & legible copies of both sides of the plastic bit & the paper section. ( just in cqse there is anything missing ! ) You will have to ensure that they understand that you require the class 2 on there : this may entail a medical.


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## VFR

Heston said:


> Thanks to all who have contributed to the mass of driving and licence information available here - although i still have a query - i mentioned on another thread that i will hopefully be registering my UK licence here in Spain - though the question i have is as i have HGV2 entitlement in UK, will all classes be automatically registered or would i have to take further action? Many Thanks in advance...


My advice is to use your local Gestor as you will need everything documented so if there should be an error in entitlements you have some redress.
I recently changed my licence over & am also class 1, you will though loose the minibus entitlement that is normal on a UK licence as this is classed as needing a PSV here.
It was though explained that for private hire involving no Hire & Reward then you can indeed drive a 8 seater on the normal car licence.


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## Ellie engwi's

Hi Everyone, I have read some of the comments on this thread with great mirth. I am moving into Spain on 6feb from New Zealand and I honestly thought that the worst drivers in the world came from down here. After reading some of the comments here I am having second thoughts. Although the scalextrix mode of driving is quite popular down here also. On a serious note, is there a Highway Code or Road Code book which I can obtain(preferably in English as my Spanish is as yet non existent) to enable us to know the rules of the road before landing there? Also, what is the Padron, I am assuming that it is similar to the electoral register in UK!


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## xabiaxica

Ellie engwi's said:


> Hi Everyone, I have read some of the comments on this thread with great mirth. I am moving into Spain on 6feb from New Zealand and I honestly thought that the worst drivers in the world came from down here. After reading some of the comments here I am having second thoughts. Although the scalextrix mode of driving is quite popular down here also. On a serious note, is there a Highway Code or Road Code book which I can obtain(preferably in English as my Spanish is as yet non existent) to enable us to know the rules of the road before landing there? Also, what is the Padron, I am assuming that it is similar to the electoral register in UK!


this thread http://www.expatforum.com/expats/spain-expat-forum-expats-living-spain/2724-residency-certificates-nie-numbers-padr-n.html discusses padrón, NIE numbers etc.

I don't know about the highway code - I don't drive 


I wouldn't be at all surprised if it's available in English though, since you can actually take the written part of the test in English! 

( I wonder if you do the practical part in English too :confused2


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## Pesky Wesky

Of course there's a highway code. Spain IS apart of Europe and is classed as a "developed" country 

You can find the manual in English somewhere, but I can't find it. You may need to get in touch with driving schools in Madrid or in the south that offer the exam in English. Or the DGT (Dirección General de Trafico)
Here's an interesting link to an English language version of the theory test. (I think there are more questions in the real test).
English Driving School - English Test Autoescuela


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## gus-lopez

Pesky Wesky said:


> Of course there's a highway code. Spain IS apart of Europe and is classed as a "developed" country
> 
> You can find the manual in English somewhere, but I can't find it. You may need to get in touch with driving schools in Madrid or in the south that offer the exam in English. Or the DGT (Dirección General de Trafico)
> Here's an interesting link to an English language version of the theory test. (I think there are more questions in the real test).
> English Driving School - English Test Autoescuela


It's a bit bigger than the UK highway code. About 630 pages !!


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## Guest

Ellie engwi's said:


> Hi Everyone, I have read some of the comments on this thread with great mirth. I am moving into Spain on 6feb from New Zealand and I honestly thought that the worst drivers in the world came from down here. After reading some of the comments here I am having second thoughts. Although the scalextrix mode of driving is quite popular down here also. On a serious note, is there a Highway Code or Road Code book which I can obtain(preferably in English as my Spanish is as yet non existent) to enable us to know the rules of the road before landing there? Also, what is the Padron, I am assuming that it is similar to the electoral register in UK!


If you'll be living in Spain for more than 6 months, make sure to ask at the traffic office here if you can directly exchange your New Zealand driver's license for a Spanish one, or if you have to go back to driving school.


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## xabiaxica

halydia said:


> If you'll be living in Spain for more than 6 months, make sure to ask at the traffic office here if you can directly exchange your New Zealand driver's license for a Spanish one, or if you have to go back to driving school.


it says here it has to be translated into Spanish even if they're visiting 

Driving in Spain | Living in Spain | New Zealanders overseas | Spain | NZEmbassy.com



> New Zealand Embassy Madrid, Spain
> Driving in Spain
> 
> New Zealanders over the age of 18 years with a valid New Zealand driver´s licence who are in Spain as legal visitors may drive on their New Zealand driving licence, for up to six months. New Zealand driving licence must be translated into Spanish, and must carry both all the time.
> 
> New Zealanders in Spain in any other circumstances should contact their local Dirección General de Tráfico.


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## Guest

That should be very easily done by getting an International Drivers' License. In the US you get one by going to AAA (the automobile club). In Spain, you go to _trafico._ I'm not sure where they would need to go in NZ.


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## Stravinsky

halydia said:


> That should be very easily done by getting an International Drivers' License. In the US you get one by going to AAA (the automobile club). In Spain, you go to _trafico._ I'm not sure where they would need to go in NZ.


I dont understand this thing about International Driving licences. For one, they have to be backed up by a valid country driving licence, and secondly I have heard so many times now that many countries just dont recognise them.


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## Stravinsky

Stravinsky said:


> I dont understand this thing about International Driving licences. For one, they have to be backed up by a valid country driving licence, and secondly I have heard so many times now that many countries just dont recognise them.


In fact, as far as the UK is concerned ... and I guess many other countries:

International driving licences
Neither the United Nations nor any of its subsidiary bodies issues or authorises the issue of international driver licences. An international driving licence is not valid proof of driving entitlement in GB.


Taken from Driving on licences from all other countries, and students on a foreign licence : Directgov - Motoring

Confusing, eh?


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## Guest

It's a translation of the driver's license. For this reason, it must always be carried with the valid drivers license in the original language.


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## gus-lopez

Stravinsky said:


> In fact, as far as the UK is concerned ... and I guess many other countries:
> 
> International driving licences
> Neither the United Nations nor any of its subsidiary bodies issues or authorises the issue of international driver licences. An international driving licence is not valid proof of driving entitlement in GB.
> 
> 
> Taken from Driving on licences from all other countries, and students on a foreign licence : Directgov - Motoring
> 
> Confusing, eh?


They are talking about these ;,

International driving permits

Valid international driving permits, also known as convention permits, must comply with the formats prescribed in international legislation. Permits must be in booklet form, with white inside pages translated into multiple languages.

Not ID licences .


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## baldilocks

Stravinsky said:


> In fact, as far as the UK is concerned ... and I guess many other countries:
> 
> International driving licences
> Neither the United Nations nor any of its subsidiary bodies issues or authorises the issue of international driver licences. An international driving licence is not valid proof of driving entitlement in GB.
> 
> 
> Taken from Driving on licences from all other countries, and students on a foreign licence : Directgov - Motoring
> 
> Confusing, eh?


There are many fake websites offering International Driving Licences (note the wording) and claiming to be from the UN for quite exorbitant amounts. The proper name is International Driving *Permit* and these are issued by a specified motoring organisation in the country of origin (AAA in the USA). As has been said they must be accompanied by a valid driving licence.


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## Pesky Wesky

Info on the IDP (as Baldilocks has pointed out) from the AA
International Driving Permit : International Driving Permit - The AA


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## Stravinsky

gus-lopez said:


> They are talking about these ;,
> 
> International driving permits
> 
> Valid international driving permits, also known as convention permits, must comply with the formats prescribed in international legislation. Permits must be in booklet form, with white inside pages translated into multiple languages.
> 
> Not ID licences .


Oh OK thanks, so what purpose do they actually serve?


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## gus-lopez

Stravinsky said:


> Oh OK thanks, so what purpose do they actually serve?


Basically it's a small paper booklet detailing in 20+ languages that the licence you have allows you to drive in that country. renewable every year. It gives all your details , etc. & is stamped / authorised by a body in your home country.

International Driving Permit - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
International Driving Permit : International Driving Permit - IDP - The AA


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## stevesainty

*Speed Limits*

Just a quickie

In UK speed limits are 60/70/70 for single carriageway/dual carriagway/motorway for cars
50/60/70 for light commercial vehicles and 40/50/60 for LGV's

I cannot find any info for the equivalent Spanish speed limits. Does anyone know please.

I am especially interested in the light commercial limits. I.E. a luton van!


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## gus-lopez

stevesainty said:


> Just a quickie
> 
> In UK speed limits are 60/70/70 for single carriageway/dual carriagway/motorway for cars
> 50/60/70 for light commercial vehicles and 40/50/60 for LGV's
> 
> I cannot find any info for the equivalent Spanish speed limits. Does anyone know please.
> 
> I am especially interested in the light commercial limits. I.E. a luton van!


Speed limits in Spain - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## Stravinsky

gus-lopez said:


> Basically it's a small paper booklet detailing in 20+ languages that the licence you have allows you to drive in that country. renewable every year. It gives all your details , etc. & is stamped / authorised by a body in your home country.
> 
> International Driving Permit - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> International Driving Permit : International Driving Permit - IDP - The AA



OK .... but what use is that, for instance, in a country where your driving licence is only valid for a limited period of time in the country you are driving in? I.E 6 months ot 12 months


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## gus-lopez

Stravinsky said:


> OK .... but what use is that, for instance, in a country where your driving licence is only valid for a limited period of time in the country you are driving in? I.E 6 months ot 12 months


Where do you get the 6 months from ? It's main use now is for people from countries where the licence would be in adifferent language & the licence of a different type of format. Similar to the situation before the standardised EU licence.


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