# How can I move to Spain from the US



## jordanmarcio1 (Nov 6, 2017)

Greetings to all,

I have always had the desire to live in Spain for several years. Currently, I live in San Antonio TX United States and work in the area of ​​Information Technology managing computer systems. (Information Technology, Systems Administrator, Windows, Linux, VMware, etc.)

I would like to know the opinion of some people in this forum about the possibilities of moving to Spain through a corporation. I do not know anyone in Spain.

Questions I have:

What is the current situation regarding jobs in Spain?
Is it better to live in a country close to Spain like Germany and that way I can visit Spain often?
If you were to get a job within a corporation, are these jobs permanent or are most contracts?
 What are the best recruitment firms to find jobs in Europe?
What is the cost of living in Spain?
I appreciate your suggestions.


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## expat16 (Jun 11, 2016)

Hello,


As someone who always preferred Spain, and went to Netherlands because Spain was impossible for me at the time, I say: If you have the possibility of going straight to Spain, save yourself the torture of living in Germany or The Netherlands. 

However, if that is the only option you have try to get a EU Blue Card and this gives you benefits to move around EU. With EU blue card (soon) you will be able to get EU permanent residence after 3 years and this will give you rights to move to other EU countries more easily than is standard for third country nationals. The standard number of years of residence required before you can apply for EU permanent residence is 5 years.

I think Spain has a healthy IT industry, meaning that there are plenty of locals educated in that area and I think it would be difficult for you to get a contract. Better to find an American company and work through them.

You could also try self-employment, and there is a work permit for that situation and that should be easier to get. With a regular work permit (contract working for someone else) the employer will have to show that they can't find any Spaniard/EU citizen to do the job, and that will be impossible basically, unless you have a highly specialized critical skill that is scarce in Spain/EU.

I myself should be moving to Spain in early 2018 if all goes well. In fact, today I will get my EU permanent residence decision here in NL, fingers crossed.

For cost of living comparison you can try numbeo.com which compares cost of living between cities.

Let me know if you have further questions.

ETA: You could also try the new EU job portal for third country nationals: https://ec.europa.eu/eures/public/homepage


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## jordanmarcio1 (Nov 6, 2017)

Thanks for your quick reply. 

Why is a torture living in Germany or The Netherlands? Because of the weather?

Regards,

Jordanmarcio


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## rolover (Nov 7, 2017)

What is the current situation regarding jobs in Spain?

There are never many jobs in Spain but now the economy is slowly improving. The most jobs are probably in IT, so you're in a good field but you won't get anything near the kind of pay you get in the US. There are a lot o big IT firms in Madrid.

Is it better to live in a country close to Spain like Germany and that way I can visit Spain often?


If you were to get a job within a corporation, are these jobs permanent or are most contracts?
What are the best recruitment firms to find jobs in Europe?
What is the cost of living in Spain?


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## rolover (Nov 7, 2017)

I hit some key and it submitted and I don't see any option to edit so I'll finish my reply here:

Is it better to live in a country close to Spain like Germany and that way I can visit Spain often?

If you want higher pay yes.

If you were to get a job within a corporation, are these jobs permanent or are most contracts?

Maybe temporary contracts until they are convinced you're good for the long term and then do an indefinite contract.

What is the cost of living in Spain? 

Rent is roughly 900-1000 in Madrid for a small 3 bedroom in an average area. it's cheaper in other cities but if you need work its Madrid or Barcelona. Food is cheap, my wife and I get by with 200 max per month. Eating out about 12-15 euros per person at a normal restaurant.


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## jordanmarcio1 (Nov 6, 2017)

Thanks for the reply with the information.


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## Elyles (Aug 30, 2012)

jordanmarcio1 said:


> Greetings to all,
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Jordan, stay where you are, the employment opportunities are much more fluid as well as plentiful in San Antonio. The law here states that if a Spaniard has the qualifications for a job they will get hired over anyone. And, if you don’t speak Spanish fluently, you’re screwed. All jobs within the Spanish system are contract.

Most of us here on this site are retired or headed in that direction. It is a fabulous delusion for many to want to live here and a few of us have made it happen in retirement. Good luck but I would hate to lead you astray. 

I lived around Houston for many years and completed 10 years of Universities there. Personally, I think H town sucks, even after 30years there. We escaped to the mountains of Wyoming due to the GW Bush admin seeing that there was very little money in Children’s mental health treatment. I finished my career there,in the ski capital of the US, later to retire in the Pyrenees.

And, there is no Mexican food here!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## jordanmarcio1 (Nov 6, 2017)

Hello Elyles,

Thanks for the reply.

Yes, San Antonio, TX and Austin, TX are doing decently when it comes to IT jobs. The Spanish language is my primary language since I was born and raised in Puerto Rico for 18 years. Unfortunately, I don't have Spaniard citizenship. So like you said, I'm at a disadvantage.

I did visited Houston, TX back in 2009 and I didn't like it at all. That's why I decided to move to San Antonio.

I guess I have to explore the idea of Germany so I can be closer to Spain.

This idea of me moving to that part of the world is something I'm starting to explore so I will come up with something eventually.

Thanks for replying and have a nice day.

Jordan Marcio


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## bhamham (Feb 19, 2017)

I was born and raised in San Antonio. My parents started a new life there when my dad was discharged from the Army Air Corp after WWII. It was great to grow up there in the 1950s-60s. I did my university time and worked in Austin for 40+ yrs but glad to be away now.

Like Elyles suggests, I'd stay where you are. Perhaps work for a MNC and transfer to Europe. Germany probably has brighter prospects than Spain or France, where I am.

Ain't no good Mexican food in Paris, either. Last place I tried the tortillas were like rubber!

Best of luck to you Jordan.


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## Elyles (Aug 30, 2012)

I don’t know what you are eating for 12-15. Here in Jaca Our favorite place is about 18 per person but that is quality food, excellent service and a bottle of good wine. Of course, the King and family eat there when in town. Our rent here for about 100m2 is about 400 a month. Who wants to live in Madrid, a monster city, anyway.? It always seems so impersonal and too many speak English. If you don’t speak Spanish fluently, forget a job.


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## Elyles (Aug 30, 2012)

Jobs are difficult here. It’s easier if you have anincome based on investments.


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## expat16 (Jun 11, 2016)

jordanmarcio1 said:


> Thanks for your quick reply.
> 
> Why is a torture living in Germany or The Netherlands? Because of the weather?
> 
> ...


Hi,

Scratch what I said about Germany. Just got back from a week in Munich/Bavaria and was pleasantly surprised. Great food, better weather than NL, and good, friendly service. I ignorantly assumed Germany would be similar to NL, but not so far. Of course, I have never lived in Germany so I am not really qualified to give a complete opinion on Germany.

As to NL, yes it is a torture partly because of the weather. But so many other things are very unpleasant about this little country. 

The people that I know that actually like it, or 'tolerate' it would be a better term, are people who come from either developing countries, or very remote areas in e.g. the US with worse weather.

NL was sold to me as a place with high living standard and very progressive and good for career-minded women. Not the case. Sexism is a common trait of the culture. 90% or so of women work only part-time. 

The weather is horrible, the people are depressed and suicidal (check the rates), euthanasia is very high (compared to other countries with euthanasia like Switzerland). Heck they even had to take measures on the train platforms because they were getting like 270 jumpers per year, and now they managed to reduce it to 200.

The traditional food is very plan and unsophisticated. In general they don't care about details. Have waited in pricey restaurants over an hour just to get water, after having asked 3 different waiters, we never got our water! That is the norm.

There is a strange type of greed I have never seen anywhere else. Very miserly mentality in general.

They are always tying to cut in line. If you are the last on a line, just wait and see till the next Dutch arrive, they will NEVER stand behind you, as it's done in any civil place, they will ALWAYS stand next to you or try to wedge in front as if you didn't exist. It's funny to see this happen at airports where I have seen British men call them out on it, and I also called a couple out on it in Paris airport.

It's a crowded place, in the top 10 worldwide. Going to the supermarket (which are normally tiny) is a horrible experience. Crowded, always bumping into people, things out of stock, the workers stocking so the stock carts are on the way (they don't do it overnight as in other places).

In sum, I really hate it. But they have this superiority complex that everything is better in NL! They even have a phrase 'alles is geregeld', they are always saying NL is better because 'everything is arranged'. In their mind nothing works in any other country apparently.

They have another phrase which reflects their arrogance 'If it ain't Dutch it ain't much'.

In fact, I am now unfortunately startling legal proceedings against former landlord because they basically stole 3000eur worth of goods in my apt which I was supposed to sell to the new tenant but they just gave them to the new tenant for free!! Of course, because i'ts easier to find a tenant if they won't have to pay for and install a floor etc! 

Yes that is a thing here! Many apts are rented without anything, not even a floor! I fell for this apt because of the view and because they advertised it on photos with floor. But it didn't have floor, lamps nor things to plug the lamps into, nothing. I spent money on everything and getting everything installed and I am now being told it's no longer mine! Crazy, greedy people. In fact there is a joke that says copper wire was invented by two Dutchmen fighting over a penny!

These are all generalizations, of course there are always lovely people that I have met and are fair. But, in general, this is what the culture is that you will face. 

I am thankfully moving out in one week!!


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## bhamham (Feb 19, 2017)

expat16 said:


> In fact there is a joke that says copper wire was invented by two Dutchmen fighting over a penny!


That is funny!

I actually like Holland a lot but never lived there. I love to cycle and find it so wonderful to do that there and camp, of course in the summer.

A read an article that since the introduction of the electric bike, there's been a huge increase in Dutch deaths (esp over 60) from cycling - crazy place!


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## expat16 (Jun 11, 2016)

bhamham said:


> That is funny!
> 
> I actually like Holland a lot but never lived there. I love to cycle and find it so wonderful to do that there and camp, of course in the summer.
> 
> A read an article that since the introduction of the electric bike, there's been a huge increase in Dutch deaths (esp over 60) from cycling - crazy place!


I read that article too! About 2 weeks ago there was another article stating that pedestrian/cyclist accidents (involving cars) increase 4-5 times over the winter months in NL - due to the dark I imagine. I have seen a few cyclists myself just post accident lying unconscious on the ground.

I think it's a great place for a holiday, and I will certainly come back for that. But living here is for me a constant struggle with hardly any enjoyment. For those that grow up here it's different I imagine, Ignorance is bliss as they say.


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

expat16 said:


> Hi,
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Don't ever think of coming to live in Spain. You would be guaranteed to hate it.


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## expat16 (Jun 11, 2016)

Lynn R said:


> Don't ever think of coming to live in Spain. You would be guaranteed to hate it.


I lived in Spain in the past and visit often, never had issues with accepted workplace sexism (which is ingrained in NL), the food (some might be bland but at least overall it's healthier than the Dutch offer), nor with cutting in line. 

I am always impressed when I see so many female politicians in the TVE news! Female representation in government is a recognized problem here.

Everyday sexism in the lower classes of whichever country I can 'understand', but in the NL I had the bizarre experience of a female PhD holder laugh like a maniac upon hearing that I did not want to have children. She 'corrected' me and informed me I would have children, of course.

Same woman, in response to my noting that at my all ladies gym there were only male trainers, commented 'well maybe it's hard to become one'. So, naturally, if it's hard the men will be more likely to attain the certificate. A woman with a PhD.

Oh, and just signed contract to start work in Spain next year. My boss (the department head) will be female! Never had a female boss while in NL, it was always males at all the jobs I held here. And it's a strongly male-dominated field.


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## expat16 (Jun 11, 2016)

expat16 said:


> I lived in Spain in the past and visit often, never had issues with accepted workplace sexism (which is ingrained in Netherlands), the food (some might be bland but at least overall it's healthier than the Dutch offer), nor with cutting in line.
> 
> I am always impressed when I see so many female politicians in the TVE news! Female representation in government is a recognized problem here.
> 
> ...


I just recalled a study conducted by a reputable university, which looked at gender bias/stereotyping across 66 nations, including Spain and The Netherlands. Here on the link below you can see the results. Which country came up top? The Netherlands , of course! I was not surprised, but I have been living here a while and have seen it first hand and have personally met women who have left a career here in The Netherlands in academia specifically citing sexism as the issue.

Living in The Netherlands has really taught me not to believe the stereotypes, like the Dutch are efficient and progressive, while the Spanish are lazy etc! 

Amplify Your Data Using Interactive Graphics â€“ David Miller â€“ Physicist Turned Psychologist


I also remember the organized queues while waiting for the bus to commute to work in Madrid. And saw the same behaviour in Barcelona when I was there last July. Trying queuing in The Netherlands!!

I know Spain is far from perfect, but I am certainly not going to support stereotypes that I cannot personally confirm!


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## wesdunn1977 (Nov 29, 2017)

I think the person may be referring to the cultural enrichment of those countries, much the same as London where I escaped from, could be other reasons of course but that was the first thing that came to my mind.. Hope you work it out, this is a beautiful country and devoid of most of the problems of northern Europe..


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## Tortuga Torta (Jan 23, 2016)

jordanmarcio1 said:


> I was born and raised in Puerto Rico for 18 years. Unfortunately, I don't have Spaniard citizenship. So like you said, I'm at a disadvantage.


Can't you get it after 1 year in the country, though, through their program for citizens of Hispanic countries? (I think that applies to Puerto Rico, even though it's not really its own country). I don't know how that works for the first year, but it's worth looking into this loophole.


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