# PCC question for citizenship



## rockyrambo (Apr 22, 2013)

Hi All,

I wanted an opinion on the following:


*Do I need an overseas penal clearance certificate?
*Requirements for applications for Australian citizenship

The following requirements apply to the period of time you have held a permanent Australian visa.

You need penal clearance certificates from overseas countries if:

you lived or travelled overseas since the age of 18 years or over, and
the total time spent overseas added up to 12 months or more, and
the time spent in any one country was more than 90 days, or
you are requested to do so by the department.

Provide a penal clearance certificate from every country that you spent more than 90 days in.

1) What is the date used for calculation here for PCC? the day you get your grant / the day you arrive for the first time in AUS using the grant?

2) If the total time spent overseas is < 12 months since the date of calculation, does one still need a PCC, despite one would have stayed more than 90 days in any country during that time period?

3) Is the time period of 90 days in any country a continuous one?

Thanks in advance.


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## stbaugh13 (Dec 22, 2011)

rockyrambo said:


> Hi All,
> 
> I wanted an opinion on the following:
> 
> ...


1) You would need a Penal Certificate for any country you lived in for more than 90 days (Other than Australia) after making your first entry.
For example you landed in Australia on 17 July 2013 and then in June 2015 went on a vacation to Jamaica and spent 90 days or more then you would need a Penal certificate from Jamaica.

2) If the total time spent overseas is less than 12 months but you still spent over 90 days in a country other than Australia then yes you would need a Penal certificate.

3) Yes


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## rockyrambo (Apr 22, 2013)

stbaugh13 said:


> 1) You would need a Penal Certificate for any country you lived in for more than 90 days (Other than Australia) after making your first entry.
> For example you landed in Australia on 17 July 2013 and then in June 2015 went on a vacation to Jamaica and spent 90 days or more then you would need a Penal certificate from Jamaica.
> 
> 2) If the total time spent overseas is less than 12 months but you still spent over 90 days in a country other than Australia then yes you would need a Penal certificate.
> ...


Thanks for the reply. I wasn't actually sure about #2 here as the list of conditions mention an "AND" and not an "OR". They , if interpreted with this logic, suggest that if a person has spent total time >=12 months overseas AND he has spent 90 days or more in a particular country. So, if we go by this logic then it means that unless a person spends more than 12 months overseas even if he spends more than 90 days in a particular country, PCC won't be required. However, I think this makes it a bit less stringent, as one can just spend 11 months and 29 days in a country and get rid of the PCC requirement. This can't be right. Cool.

About the date of calculation, since, nowhere it has been mentioned that the date is date of arrival, are you sure about it that it is not the date of grant?

Again, it has not been mentioned clearly that the period of 90 days is a continuous one but I too think that it would be...!


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## kaju (Oct 31, 2011)

rockyrambo said:


> Thanks for the reply. I wasn't actually sure about #2 here as the list of conditions mention an "AND" and not an "OR". They , if interpreted with this logic, suggest that if a person has spent total time >=12 months overseas AND he has spent 90 days or more in a particular country. So, if we go by this logic then it means that unless a person spends more than 12 months overseas even if he spends more than 90 days in a particular country, PCC won't be required. However, I think this makes it a bit less stringent, as one can just spend 11 months and 29 days in a country and get rid of the PCC requirement. This can't be right. Cool.
> 
> It is right, but remember the Case Officer can require you to provide a PCC anyway, for any period they deem appropriate.
> 
> ...


kaju


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## rockyrambo (Apr 22, 2013)

kaju said:


> kaju


Thanks for the reply Kaju.

It's from the date of grant. DIBP takes your status as a Permanent Resident from the date the visa is granted, not the date the visa is activated.

So, you mean DIBP calculates it differently when it looks at an application for PCC requirement than when it looks at it for citizenship eligibility. (This is clear as per DIBP that for citizenship eligibility; 4 years is from the date of first arrival and not from the date of grant)


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## kaju (Oct 31, 2011)

rockyrambo said:


> Thanks for the reply Kaju.
> 
> It's from the date of grant. DIBP takes your status as a Permanent Resident from the date the visa is granted, not the date the visa is activated.
> 
> So, you mean DIBP calculates it differently when it looks at an application for PCC requirement than when it looks at it for citizenship eligibility. (This is clear as per DIBP that for citizenship eligibility; 4 years is from the date of first arrival and not from the date of grant)


Australian Citizenship eligibility is based on your time *as a Permanent Resident in Australia.*

The PCC requirement is different:
_The following requirements apply to _*the period of time you have held a permanent Australian visa.*

So yes, it is calculated differently.


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## rockyrambo (Apr 22, 2013)

kaju said:


> Australian Citizenship eligibility is based on your time *as a Permanent Resident in Australia.*
> 
> The PCC requirement is different:
> _The following requirements apply to _*the period of time you have held a permanent Australian visa.*
> ...


Probably it makes sense to start it from the date of grant as a PCC would have already been done before the grant so DIBP would like to know the status post grant. Actually, in my case, I got the grant on SEP 2014 and arrived in Aus on MAR 2015. Meanwhile, I spent most of my time in Singapore working. Have you come across any case personally / or on this forum like that from whom PCC has been asked for? 

P.S. Not that I have done anything "wrong" in Singapore, but inquiring to understand the process better.


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## kaju (Oct 31, 2011)

rockyrambo said:


> Probably it makes sense to start it from the date of grant as a PCC would have already been done before the grant so DIBP would like to know the status post grant. Actually, in my case, I got the grant on SEP 2014 and arrived in Aus on MAR 2015. Meanwhile, I spent most of my time in Singapore working. Have you come across any case personally / or on this forum like that from whom PCC has been asked for?
> 
> P.S. Not that I have done anything "wrong" in Singapore, but inquiring to understand the process better.


Haven't heard of it in the case of Citizenship, but that's just me. 

They can ask if they want, of course:

_You need penal clearance certificates from overseas countries if:

you lived or travelled overseas since the age of 18 years or over, and
the total time spent overseas added up to 12 months or more, and
the time spent in any one country was more than 90 days, *or
you are requested to do so by the department.*_


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