# Obtaining Legal Capacity for Marriage document from Italian Embassy: THE SAGA



## ksolaris (Feb 28, 2013)

Hi all

Yeah, I haven't been on here for a while, and I'm here again because this whole thing is driving me nuts and I was hoping I could ask for some tips and advice on here, or at the very least... rant. lol 

Anyway, a briefer: I'm a Filipina who is about to marry my Italian fiance this May 2015. We're both here in Manila, we both have jobs here, and his work visa etc are all ironed out.

Now we're trying to get our documents together so that we can file for a marriage license at our local city hall. Unfortunately, the only thing missing is his Legal Capacity to Contract Marriage document, which he needs to get from the local Italian Embassy... and honestly it has been a NIGHTMARE. Here's what's happened so far:


March 20 - He goes to the embassy to file a request for the document. He is told that his Italian civil status papers are expired so he needs a new one. So my fiance asks his dad in Italy to get him a fresh copy, scan it, and email it to him.

March 23 - Monday. Fiance goes back to embassy with the fresh, non-expired civil status certificate. The Consular Office (which is only open on Mondays and Wednesdays) accepts his request and tells him to come back on Wednesday.

March 25 - Wednesday. Fiance calls the embassy to check if his papers are ready for pick up. He is told that it hasn't been signed yet and to come back next Monday.

March 30 - Monday. Fiance attempts to pick up his documents. IT IS ONLY THEN THAT HE IS INFORMED that he actually also needs to submit copies of MY birth certificate, and CENOMAR, as well as MY Affidavit of Family Composition. The affidavit also has to be authenticated by the local Regional Trial Court AND the DFA (red ribbon authentication).

~ insert HOLY WEEK/LONG WEEKENDS AND HOLIDAYS etc ~



April 10 - Friday. After an entire saga of its own, we finally get the DFA red ribbon and everything else. It is now ready to submit, and my fiance has been assured that we just need to submit these and his document will be ready for pick up.

April 13 - Monday. The documents are submitted to the Embassy. My fiance is told to pick up his document that afternoon. He does so. He is told that it is not yet ready and to come back tomorrow.

April 14 - Tuesday. Fiance comes back as instructed and attempts to pick up his papers. IT IS ONLY THEN THAT HE IS INFORMED that he needs his passport to pick it up so they can check his work visa. It just so happens that my fiance's passport is with his company's HR/Legal Dept since they're the ones handling all the visa processing etc, which means he'll have to request to pull it out so he can present it at the embassy. 

April 16 - Thursday. Fiance finally gets his passport back from HR/Legal and attempts to pick up his papers again. IT IS ONLY THEN THAT HE IS INFORMED that apparently the embassy also needs to actually see the ORIGINALS of MY birth certificate and CENOMAR. He is also only informed NOW that the Affidavit of Family Composition we submitted was lacking some details and will have to be redone. He is assured that the new, adjusted affidavit will NOT have to go through RTC and DFA authentications anymore. We asked if they have a template we can follow so that we won't make any more mistakes, but they said they had none available.

So.... almost a month in... and after many assurances that all was good and the document was ready for pick up... we still don't have it and hence, can't file for a marriage license. It has become a big, messy, giant case of "WHY-DIDN'T-YOU-TELL-US-THIS-EARLIER-WHEN-WE-ASKED."

Right now, all we can do is redo the affidavit, and HOPE TO HEAVEN that the people at the embassy keep their promise and NOT require another DFA red ribbon/RTC authentication when we submit the new affidavit on Monday, April 20.

... Sigh. 

So I guess my questions now would be:

- Any other Italians in Manila out there who married a Filipina? 
- If yes... is there anything else we should know about? Or should we expect more surprises from the Consular Office of the Italian Embassy?
- Was it this difficult for you, too?

It's just so, so frustrating... 

Anyway, if you made it this far, thanks for reading. Any advice or tips would be appreciated. 
-


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## EuroBob (Feb 23, 2015)

Once you are married with a non-Filipino, remember to attend a CFO course. 
There exists a forum topic on the CFO course, so you can read more about it.


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## lovelianlai (Aug 23, 2016)

hi i just want to ask what are the templates to follow to get the certificate of legal capacity to get married in italian embassy,is there any requirements to submit?


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## fmartin_gila (May 15, 2011)

ksolaris said:


> Hi all
> Was it this difficult for you, too?
> 
> It's just so, so frustrating...
> ...


Can't really be of any help but to give moral support. It seems you have run into the wall that we all have at some time dealing with most any government beurocrocy throughout the world. There are times one wants to just throw up your hands and say "I give up", hang in there and you'll make it. So frustrating -yes, but persevere and you will get through it and may even someday look back and laugh over it.

Fred


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## M.C.A. (Feb 24, 2013)

*Certificate of Legal Capacity*



lovelianlai said:


> hi i just want to ask what are the templates to follow to get the certificate of legal capacity to get married in italian embassy,is there any requirements to submit?



Is this it? Philippine Consulate General in Milan, Italy

or this? Requirements for Certificate of Legal Capacity to Contract Marriage (CLCCM)

Embassy of Italy in Manila, your new profile has you living in the Philippines: http://www.ambmanila.esteri.it/Ambasciata_Manila


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## pagbati (Apr 9, 2014)

ksolaris said:


> ... It's just so, so frustrating...  Anyway, if you made it this far, thanks for reading. Any advice or tips would be appreciated.
> -


Sorry to hear about your frustrations with the Italian Embassy. A real catalogue of incompetence. I’m afraid I can’t offer you any assistance to your specific questions. Similar to Fred, I only seek to offer some moral support. As you will have observed already from reading posts on this forum, it’s not just the Italians, but many governments, non-government organisations and normal businesses that are guilty of maladministration. The question is what to do about it. Many take the view that when you complain, you run the risk of upsetting people, thereby increasing the risk that your problem will go to the back of the queue and take even longer to resolve. Whilst that can indeed happen, what are you supposed to do, just suck it up? Meanwhile, you are continually fed misinformation by what are often incompetent or lazy employees; what should have taken days to process a request turns into weeks, months and sometimes longer, depending on how well you stay on top of it. Certainly in your case, I can see why you wouldn't to get embroiled in complaining against the people whom you depend upon to get things done.

The point is though, you're not getting things done and there comes a time when we reach our limits of tolerance; when the frustration becomes intolerable, when you say enough is enough and decide to take positive action. People generally don’t like continual complainers/ whingers, so you have to ensure that you complain as little as possible but in the right way and to the right person. When you present a well-founded complaint in a logical way to the right person, it can have a positive effect, especially when you provide a solution at the same time. The key is to ensure that you keep exact records of whom you spoke to and what was said; you appear to be doing all of that.

There are some organisations where it can be a total waste of time complaining. I’ve had such an experience with Phil Post’s Customer Service Department when they lost my recorded mail and refused to do anything about it. Their policy is to ignore correspondence when it becomes awkward and at the end of the day, there’s not much one can do about that in the Philippines, as taking legal action here in that situation would not only be pointless, but expensive and unwise.

However, government embassies are usually more clearly structured, more understanding and usually have a clearly promulgated complaints procedure. If they don’t, that might be a red light and a signal not to bother but persevere with the status quo.

Generally speaking, few of us like complaining and it certainly isn’t good for our health so it’s advisable to give it due consideration before going down that route. The question is, how long are you willing to put up with all that nonsense before you take a stand? At the end of the day, only you can decide. Good luck.


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