# Swine Flu - those who should ask for the jab now.



## Suenneil (Feb 17, 2009)

I posted a link on the "useful links" page last week with a help page regarding Swine Flu.

I came across this article posted today on the Think Spain website that may also be useful for anyone it may apply to: 

*Heart patients, cancer sufferers, anaemics, asthmatics and diabetics should seek swine ‘flu jab
By: thinkSPAIN , Tuesday, September 1, 2009

PEOPLE with chronic heart conditions, diabetes and cancer should be vaccinated against swine ‘flu, stresses Spain’s minister of health, Trinidad Jiménez.

Also, anyone with respiratory problems and serious obesity should receive the jab, as well as children, teachers and anyone whose work involves a vital public service, such as doctors or ambulance staff.

Jiménez (pictured) cites those who should ask their doctor about the AH1N1 jab as anyone with cystic fibrosis, asthma, bronchial dysplasia, Type I and II diabetes, kidney failure, anaemia, hepatitis or other liver conditions, serious neuro-musclar conditions, those with no spleen, and anyone with reduced immunity, such as HIV patients or people on drugs following transplants.

Under-18s receiving Acetic Acid treatment, anyone with a body mass index (BMI) exceeding 40, cancer patients – particularly those in chemotherapy – and any kind of ongoing heart condition should also seek out a vaccination.*

Sue :ranger:


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Suenneil said:


> I posted a link on the "useful links" page last week with a help page regarding Swine Flu.
> 
> I came across this article posted today on the Think Spain website that may also be useful for anyone it may apply to:
> 
> ...


Having worked in the medical profession in the UK and knowing lots of GPs and medical researchers, I wouldnt let my worst enemy have this injection, let alone my family. As far as they know so far (it hasnt even undergone any of the usual longer term tests yet!), it has side effects that far outway any potential risk from flu. Swine flu, altho its "make up" is a variant of normal flu doesnt seem to be as virilant or as detrimental, and this jab can only be 25% effective anyway!!

Yet another licence for the pharmaceutical industry to print money!

Jo xxx


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## Suenneil (Feb 17, 2009)

jojo said:


> Having worked in the medical profession in the UK and knowing lots of GPs and medical researchers, I wouldnt let my worst enemy have this injection, let alone my family. As far as they know so far (it hasnt even undergone any of the usual longer term tests yet!), it has side effects that far outway any potential risk from flu. Swine flu, altho its "make up" is a variant of normal flu doesnt seem to be as virilant or as detrimental, and this jab can only be 25% effective anyway!!
> 
> Yet another licence for the pharmaceutical industry to print money!
> 
> Jo xxx


Hiya Jo .... I have read the articles on the potential side effects of this job - at the end of the day I hope people ask questions and do their homework in advance of having it ... Im certainly no expert  but maybe the side effect risks are outweighed by the potential benefits for some of those people at high risk should they actually get the virus 

Im just posting the "official" guidance that was posted on the Foreign Office website together with this article ..... certainly not agreeing or disagreeing as to whether or not individuals should have it ....


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

jojo said:


> Having worked in the medical profession in the UK and knowing lots of GPs and medical researchers, I wouldnt let my worst enemy have this injection, let alone my family. As far as they know so far (it hasnt even undergone any of the usual longer term tests yet!), it has side effects that far outway any potential risk from flu. Swine flu, altho its "make up" is a variant of normal flu doesnt seem to be as virilant or as detrimental, and this jab can only be 25% effective anyway!!
> 
> Yet another licence for the pharmaceutical industry to print money!
> 
> Jo xxx


As you know, I don't want my kids to have it

I'm pretty sure I heard on the news yesterday that it will be obligatory for certain groups (half an ear on the tele again), including under 14's


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## Suenneil (Feb 17, 2009)

xabiachica said:


> As you know, I don't want my kids to have it
> 
> I'm pretty sure I heard on the news yesterday that it will be obligatory for certain groups (half an ear on the tele again), including under 14's


Surely they cant make it obligatory ? I assumed it would be like the MMR jabs etc where they advise you to do it ... but they cant force you ??

Sue x


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

xabiachica said:


> As you know, I don't want my kids to have it
> 
> I'm pretty sure I heard on the news yesterday that it will be obligatory for certain groups (half an ear on the tele again), including under 14's



There is no way my kids will be having that jab! end of!! 


Jo xxx


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Suenneil said:


> Surely they cant make it obligatory ? I assumed it would be like the MMR jabs etc where they advise you to do it ... but they cant force you ??
> 
> Sue x


I certainly hope not

when we lived in the US the kids were refused entry into school unless their 'shots' were up to date though


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

jojo said:


> There is no way my kids will be having that jab! end of!!
> 
> 
> Jo xxx


I'm with you on this one - but there are protests already happening in parts of spain by people who want the jab & aren't in a priority group

if it comes to a choice between refusing the jab & them being refused school:confused2:


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

xabiachica said:


> I'm with you on this one - but there are protests already happening in parts of spain by people who want the jab & aren't in a priority group
> 
> if it comes to a choice between refusing the jab & them being refused school:confused2:


Well that would create a whole host of issues, its illegal not to send your kids to school!!?? 

If it ever gets nasty I'll lie and say mine had their jabs in the UK while visiting!

Jo xx


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## Caz.I (Mar 21, 2009)

jojo said:


> Well that would create a whole host of issues, its illegal not to send your kids to school!!??
> 
> If it ever gets nasty I'll lie and say mine had their jabs in the UK while visiting!
> 
> Jo xx


Have I got this totally wrong? I thought they had decided that they were not going to vaccinate the children unless they were in high risk category. I was talking to a few of the other mothers from my son's school last night who said they were worried because children wouldn’t be getting the jab! And that is what I understood from the recent news reports. Besides, the children in the state nurseries started their autumn term today and they said on the news no one had any worries about children being at risk. 

Personally, I am not happy about my son having it either and I also understand there have been problems with healthy children having it in the UK due to various side effects. And I am very wary in general about vaccinating unnecessarily.

There is also an email being circulated (which I read today) which claims to be from a Professor of Public Health at Madrid University who says this virus is actually much less serious than the common strain of flu (as Jo mentioned), and that the vaccination can actually create more damage in healthy children and even lead to a really serious epidemic of a different kind.
He says that there is no effective preventative medicine, and that the vaccine is only 33% effective in children and adolescents, possibly less in adults, and it is totally useless if they have already contracted the disease. 

Since a government spokesman today said that the vaccine will probably not be available till November anyway, this could be too late to help most people even if it is effective. Furthermore, he says that if the virus mutates, the vaccine will be totally useless anyway.

He warns that it is also extremely difficult to make an accurate diagnosis of this flu, even with the tests that are done, and the danger is that other illnesses will be missed (as in some cases in the UK where children were diagnosed with this flu when they actually had meningitis.)

This particular pharmaceutical company who are manufacturing the vaccine are set to make vast profits and so clearly have a vested interest in this particular strain of flu.

I am going back to the UK on Thursday for a few days and was getting a bit paranoid about it all (especially since I have a young son and my immune system isnt brilliant) but now I am much more “tranquila” after the email I read today.

Caz.


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## ina (Feb 26, 2009)

I agree with all of you who say that they would never take this vaccine. From what I've heard is that this vaccine has bypassed the testing stage and that it is not safe, just as other vaccines are not safe either because many of them contain mercury and other harmful ingredients, such as for example aluminum, hydrochloric acid, sodium hydroxide and formaldehyde - all ingredients that don't belong in one's bloodstream. In this video they say that the creators of the swine flu vaccine refuse to take it: Vaccine Creators Refuse to Take H1N1 Vaccine Atomic News Review
Here's another thought-provoking article: David Icke Website - Flu Is Not The Biggest Danger ... It's The Vaccine


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Caz.I said:


> Have I got this totally wrong? I thought they had decided that they were not going to vaccinate the children unless they were in high risk category. I was talking to a few of the other mothers from my son's school last night who said they were worried because children wouldn’t be getting the jab! And that is what I understood from the recent news reports. Besides, the children in the state nurseries started their autumn term today and they said on the news no one had any worries about children being at risk.
> 
> Personally, I am not happy about my son having it either and I also understand there have been problems with healthy children having it in the UK due to various side effects. And I am very wary in general about vaccinating unnecessarily.
> 
> ...


hopefully I mis-heard the tele - I really must actually sit & watch the news properly - but it seemed they were saying that all kids under 14 were a high risk group

all the points you have made are my reasons for not wanting my kids to have it


I have to admit to beginning to wonder if I'm missing something when I see more reports of mothers etc protesting about the vaccine not being available to their kids or themselves

is it just a different attitude from the spanish, do you think?


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

jojo said:


> There is no way my kids will be having that jab! end of!!
> 
> 
> Jo xxx


I'm so glad my daughter is 15 and i don't have to decide whether or not to refuse the vaccine that the government offers the under 14s. When she was 3 we didn't get her vaccinated against meningitis on purpose because we are "against" vaccines that haven't been properly researched, and she got it. Intensive care, scary nights, hospital hospital hospital.
Wouldn't wish that on ANYONE


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## Suenneil (Feb 17, 2009)

xabiachica said:


> hopefully I mis-heard the tele - I really must actually sit & watch the news properly - but it seemed they were saying that all kids under 14 were a high risk group
> 
> all the points you have made are my reasons for not wanting my kids to have it
> 
> ...


Hiya

I wonder if the "panic" is related to the way the press keep reporting "2 more deaths from Swine Flu" .... suggesting that if you have it - you die  which of course is not the case once they realised the virus was not as viralant as they originally suggested ! I have seen a lot of data recently that makes a comparison with "normal flu" and the numbers of deaths each year from that - and they far outweight the deaths we have seen with swine flu. Also, it still seems to be the case that the majority of deaths have been in people also suffering with an additional illness or complication.

My son who is 24 (lives in the UK) was diagnosed with Swine flu almost 2 months ago now ... and although he said he felt like s**** (his words not mine ) he took the same meds as he had with previous flu bouts and it lasted approx the same amount of time .....

Again I wonder if the press reporting and mixed messages we see and hear are causing "panic" - particularly with mums of young children ....

Sue :ranger:


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## Lu_C (Aug 28, 2009)

It's all a bit ridiculous - 'regular' flu claims over a thousand fatalities every year from the same groups, so far swine flu has claimed far fewer across Europe than a regular flu season would.

Tamiflu is said to be dangerous for youngsters, but so is MMR and a variety of other vaccines that 'we don't need'. But in the grand scheme of things, theses vaccines HAVE saved thousands of lives and, in some cases, pretty much eradicated an illness all together. 

It should come down to a decision made in sensible discussion with a health professional in my opinion. Who's to say that the person who reacts badly to the side effects couldn't have been killed by the illness. There's no way to know really is there?!

Lucy


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## Lu_C (Aug 28, 2009)

There's nothing that suits the media more than a nation in panic! They love it! It's as exciting as war for them - international interest, individual stories of heroism and tragedy... A world with no illness or war is a dull one for the papers.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Lu_C said:


> There's nothing that suits the media more than a nation in panic! They love it! It's as exciting as war for them - international interest, individual stories of heroism and tragedy... A world with no illness or war is a dull one for the papers.



If you wanna real conspiracy theory, there is a "school of thought" who are saying that this Swine Flu has been blown out of all proportion to distract and supress the masses from the global/UK government crisis. The British public are unaware, but are being ruled by fear!!???

Jo xx


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## Suenneil (Feb 17, 2009)

*article on schools ( vaccination of children)*

Well according to this article on ThinkSpain today they arent planning to vaccinate children as a matter of course .... (see final paragraph in red)

Sue :ranger:

SCHOOLS will not be closed and the start of term will not be put back as originally discussed in light of the swine ‘flu epidemic.

A meeting between Spain’s ministries of health and education led to a unanimous vote against starting the term later or closing down schools to cut the risk of children contracting the AH1N1 virus.

“It’s a new kind of ‘flu that is worrying authorities, but we’re going to treat it with the normality it deserves,” stresses health minister Trinidad Jiménez.

If an outbreak is detected in any school, they will take the ‘necessary measures in each individual situation’, with the agreement of the regional ministers of health and education concerned.

Education minister Ángel Gabilondo says closing schools down will ‘not protect children’s health’ and will ‘not resolve any problems, but may in fact create them’.

At present, stresses Gabilondo, there are ‘no clinical motives’ for putting back the start of the new term.

Spanish authorities are working closely with those of other European countries in order to pool knowledge.

*To this end, they have decided to only vaccinate children with chronic health conditions, and are in the process of producing a guide for teachers.*


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## Lu_C (Aug 28, 2009)

LOL, you have to love a good consipracy theory. We'll never know of course will we!? I guess the tabloids go with the human story, that is easy to sensationalise - collapsing governments isn't really a good story for the regular reader is it? Government stories need to be 'followed' whereas a human tragedy story is easy to dip into and empathise with.

Anyway, I digress! Sorry




jojo said:


> If you wanna real conspiracy theory, there is a "school of thought" who are saying that this Swine Flu has been blown out of all proportion to distract and supress the masses from the global/UK government crisis. The British public are unaware, but are being ruled by fear!!???
> 
> Jo xx


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Suenneil said:


> Well according to this article on ThinkSpain today they arent planning to vaccinate children as a matter of course .... (see final paragraph in red)
> 
> Sue :ranger:
> 
> ...


well thank goodness for common sense!


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## Guest (Sep 2, 2009)

We are good friends with a nurse practitioner who lives just around the corner from us. She was diagnosed with Swine flu a few weeks ago and is now fully recovered. She is pretty much up to date with medical matters and has told us all in no uncertain terms not to get vaccinated. Her symptoms were pretty much the same as any type of flu. We all just avoided her; well to be honest she actually went to ground and wouldn’t let any of us near her for three weeks. She felt bad for two weeks but apparently you are still contagious for three weeks. I think the pictures of people queuing for vaccines and people walking around with little white masks on published by the media helped cause the panic. The mortality rate for swine flu is believed to range from 0.1% to about 0.5%, meaning that about one to five people die for every 1000 people infected. Some consider this to be an overestimation because of “the unknown number of infected people, who recover at home without notifying their doctors that they are ill, or receiving a diagnosis” 

We have been recommended to eat kiwi fruit of all things to help build up the immune system. Apparently they contain 10 times more goodies than oranges. The amount we were advised to eat was 5 a day. The easiest way to eat them is in the form of a fruit smoothie. Fantastic for preventing flu, a bit of a ***** on your bum!


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

BUGS said:


> We are good friends with a nurse practitioner who lives just around the corner from us. She was diagnosed with Swine flu a few weeks ago and is now fully recovered. She is pretty much up to date with medical matters and has told us all in no uncertain terms not to get vaccinated. Her symptoms were pretty much the same as any type of flu. We all just avoided her; well to be honest she actually went to ground and wouldn’t let any of us near her for three weeks. She felt bad for two weeks but apparently you are still contagious for three weeks. I think the pictures of people queuing for vaccines and people walking around with little white masks on published by the media helped cause the panic. The mortality rate for swine flu is believed to range from 0.1% to about 0.5%, meaning that about one to five people die for every 1000 people infected. Some consider this to be an overestimation because of “the unknown number of infected people, who recover at home without notifying their doctors that they are ill, or receiving a diagnosis”
> 
> We have been recommended to eat kiwi fruit of all things to help build up the immune system. Apparently they contain 10 times more goodies than oranges. The amount we were advised to eat was 5 a day. The easiest way to eat them is in the form of a fruit smoothie. Fantastic for preventing flu, a bit of a ***** on your bum!


I'm doomed then - allergic to kiwi fruit


it's good to know that I'm thinking along the right lines, not wanting the kids vaccinated


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## Lu_C (Aug 28, 2009)

Well goodness on the kiwi fruit - do you reckon that's the NZers getting in on the parmaceutical company action?! LOL

Glad your friend is OK now, still don't fancy 3 weeks of feeling like rubbish...Also not convinced the vaccines are a good idea.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

*leaflet from school*

we got a leaflet sent home from school last week - the info in it is all from this website

Ante la Gripe Acta. Conselleria de Sanitat


basically - they are treating it more or less as normal seasonal flu, with the caveat that there are more 'risk groups'

it looks like our kids won't have to be vaccinated


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## Hombre (Sep 10, 2009)

xabiachica said:


> we got a leaflet sent home from school last week - the info in it is all from this website
> 
> Ante la Gripe Acta. Conselleria de Sanitat
> 
> ...


Well, me and Mrs Hombre had routine flu jabs last November and suffered with sniffles and persistent coughs for 6 months. Never again !!


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Hombre said:


> Well, me and Mrs Hombre had routine flu jabs last November and suffered with sniffles and persistent coughs for 6 months. Never again !!




I really think that unless you are really 'high risk' it's not worth it


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Hombre said:


> Well, me and Mrs Hombre had routine flu jabs last November and suffered with sniffles and persistent coughs for 6 months. Never again !!



I used to work for a GP surgery in the UK and the number of people who suffered AFTER having the flu jab far outwayed any benefit in the majority of cases. The jab could only ever be 25% effective anyway, cos it mutates annually and the vaccine is based on the previous years form!


Jo xxx


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## Tallulah (Feb 16, 2009)

Thanks for that XC. Mum-in-law is very weak and ill, a high risk group and has to have the flu jab and pneumonia jab every year ... but this one is seriously worrying her as her GP is suggesting it and she really doesn't want it. We'll just have to keep her wrapped up and indoors this autumn/winter I think.

Tally.x


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## SteveHall (Oct 17, 2008)

jojo said:


> If you wanna real conspiracy theory, there is a "school of thought" who are saying that this Swine Flu has been blown out of all proportion to distract and supress the masses from the global/UK government crisis. The British public are unaware, but are being ruled by fear!!???
> 
> Jo xx


Jojo, In all the time I have known you and of all the thousands of posts you have written NEVER have I agreed with you more. I could have written that WORD for WORD. The fact that she is a health care professional adds weight to her credo. 
Thatcher used the Falklands - Brown will use whatever he can! 

This week I was dragged to a seminar with worl-renowned oncologist Dr Joe Prendergast in Oslo. He stated 100% categorically, "NO WAY" to the vaccines. 

Lucy also has very valid points re numbers involved. 

In the whole of Sweden (9 million population) TWO people have died of Swine Flu so far - in the tiny municipality I am staying (pop 11,000) FOUR people died in two road accidents last week. Guys, let's get this into proportion. 

In Norway there are HUGE opposition groups setting up against the vaccines and with a general election in just a few days it has now become a party political issue (very sad!) 

I am not having the job (even though I am "high risk") END OF! Punto, final! 

Nice one, Jojo.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

SteveHall said:


> Jojo, In all the time I have known you and of all the thousands of posts you have written NEVER have I agreed with you more. I could have written that WORD for WORD. The fact that she is a health care professional adds weight to her credo.
> Thatcher used the Falklands - Brown will use whatever he can!
> 
> This week I was dragged to a seminar with worl-renowned oncologist Dr Joe Prendergast in Oslo. He stated 100% categorically, "NO WAY" to the vaccines.
> ...


I've fainted in shock !!!!!!


Jo xxx


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## SteveHall (Oct 17, 2008)

Can I give you the kiss of life? I am sure I could think of a very innovative way of doing it LOLOL


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

SteveHall said:


> Can I give you the kiss of life? I am sure I could think of a very innovative way of doing it LOLOL


er..... how far away are you????? LOL

Jo xxx


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