# equivalent to council tax



## moebaj (Sep 30, 2015)

Is it the same rule in almeria, the bigger the house the more council tax or equivalent you pay. I dont want to buy something that is expensive and find that the yearly costs are too expensive

Thanking you in anticipation

Moe


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

moebaj said:


> Is it the same rule in almeria, the bigger the house the more council tax or equivalent you pay. I dont want to buy something that is expensive and find that the yearly costs are too expensive
> 
> Thanking you in anticipation
> 
> Moe


sort of - yes a bigger property will attract a higher charge than a smaller one in the same area

it's called IBI -_ Impuestos Bienes Inmuebles_ - & will vary from town to town & even with districts within a town

the local town hall would tell how much it is for an individual property, or you could ask the seller to show you the bill from the previous year


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

It also depends a lot on how legal a property is!

An example; we pay over 1800€ for IBI - the property is entirely legal. A similar sized house (but not so close to a decent road) only pays 300€ (ish). When I questioned them about this, it turned out that the pool and garage were not declared to the cadastral nor were various extensions and patios that had become rooms with walls etc.


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## thrax (Nov 13, 2008)

Last year the 'tax' helicopter was seen flying overhead for some days. They were photographing properties to see if the photographs matched the property's 'title deeds'. Where they did not, the IBI was duly increased and backdated for 4 years. A neighbour of ours, who had been extending their house since 2003 without declaring such extensions, received a backdated bill for just over €5000. They were following a rule they believed was in existence which states that any property may be extended by 10% every four years without planning permission. Whether or not that is true, you still have to declare the extensions and changes to the property so that the IBI can be re-calculated to take them into account.


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

thrax said:


> Last year the 'tax' helicopter was seen flying overhead for some days. They were photographing properties to see if the photographs matched the property's 'title deeds'. Where they did not, the IBI was duly increased and backdated for 4 years. A neighbour of ours, who had been extending their house since 2003 without declaring such extensions, received a backdated bill for just over €5000. They were following a rule they believed was in existence which states that any property may be extended by 10% every four years without planning permission. Whether or not that is true, you still have to declare the extensions and changes to the property so that the IBI can be re-calculated to take them into account.


I've read that they're now using drones for a lot of the aerial photography, too. Cheaper than the helicopter, I suppose.


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## moebaj (Sep 30, 2015)

Do you have an idea of the IBI cost per year on a 160,000 property with pool. Just so I have an idea

Thanks


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## moebaj (Sep 30, 2015)

Thanks everyone this was really helpful


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

moebaj said:


> Do you have an idea of the IBI cost per year on a 160,000 property with pool. Just so I have an idea
> 
> Thanks


That really is almost impossible to answer - it all depends on where it is, how close to roads, how recently it was assessed etc.

Your best bet is simply to look at properties in your required area and then ask for the cadastral information from the agent or owner. They have to provide this info before you purchase any property anyway so they should have it for you to see.


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

Snikpoh is quite right - it really is impossible to say. For a start, you ask for a figure for a €160K property - but IBI is not based on the asking price of a property, it is based on the catastral value times something called the municipal multiplier. That can vary a lot between different towns, and as Snikpoh said, on how many years it has been since catastral values in each town have been revised. 

You might have any number of properties on the market for €160K, but they won't all be the same size or have the same type of location. Properties in urban areas have higher IBI bills than those in the countryside because they will have more municipal services.

Just ask to see the most recent IBI bill for any properties you are interested in.


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## moebaj (Sep 30, 2015)

thanks that has helped. Will ask beforehand.


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## PicklesDP (Jul 17, 2015)

I have been house hunting recently and the IBI costs seem to be all over the place. In cadiz anyway, the houses which are in more traditional spanish areas are usually much cheaper (sometimes dramatically cheaper 300 euro vs 1200 euro) than the houses in expat developments. The catastral value is not related to the asking price of a property at all, it does not seem related to the size at all. I have been told by an estate agent that in one area they have set the minimum catastral value of 600,000 euro for houses, even though the asking price may be 300,000 or less. You just have to ask for every single property you are interested in.


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

PicklesDP said:


> I have been house hunting recently and the IBI costs seem to be all over the place. In cadiz anyway, the houses which are in more traditional spanish areas are usually much cheaper (sometimes dramatically cheaper 300 euro vs 1200 euro) than the houses in expat developments. The catastral value is not related to the asking price of a property at all, it does not seem related to the size at all. I have been told by an estate agent that in one area they have set the minimum catastral value of 600,000 euro for houses, even though the asking price may be 300,000 or less. You just have to ask for every single property you are interested in.


It certainly should be related to size!

It could be that the older properties have not been 'revalued' for some time whilst new builds will have been. There is usually a 'fudge factor' to overcome this though.

The cadastral value is not the final factor - you really need to see a current IBI bill to be sure because that will show the real price having used the 'fudge factor'.


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

snikpoh said:


> It certainly should be related to size!
> 
> It could be that the older properties have not been 'revalued' for some time whilst new builds will have been. There is usually a 'fudge factor' to overcome this though.
> 
> The cadastral value is not the final factor - you really need to see a current IBI bill to be sure because that will show the real price having used the 'fudge factor'.


I think the year of construction is also a factor in determining the catastral value, with newer builds being higher, so that could be one reason why older houses in traditional Spanish areas are lower. As far as I know, when catastral values are revised they are done for all houses in that particular municipality, not for certain areas within it. We have had two revisions in our town since buying in 2003, and that's what happened then.


There are probably hundreds of factors involved. I saw a copy of the document setting them all out once (have never been able to find a link to it since) and it was mind boggling. One thing that did stick in my mind is that for urban houses, the more facades on the street a house has, the higher the catastral value. I'd often wondered why we seem to pay more than other houses in the same street but ours has 3 facades to the street whereas most have just 1.

Plot size (as well as the sq m build of the house) is also relevant and newer houses on urbanisations might well have gardens whilst older houses in traditional areas often don't. Likewise facilities such as swimming pools, whether communal or private.


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

Here you go, feast your eyes on this. Then I advise you to lie down in a darkened room with a cold compress over your eyes.


http://www.catastro.minhap.gob.es/documentos/12042004.pdf


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## smitty5668 (Feb 25, 2015)

oh heck i've got brainache trying to even think about that, let alone understand it
think i'll go and have a lie down:confused2:


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

smitty5668 said:


> oh heck i've got brainache trying to even think about that, let alone understand it


You are not alone! It almost makes me think those funcionarios who can pass their oposicones and make sense of stuff like that must be jolly clever people who deserve their pay and conditions.

But we understand this much - this is why it's impossible to explain to anybody in layman's terms why IBI bills can vary so much.


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## PicklesDP (Jul 17, 2015)

One question....

If I and moebaj find a property with low IBI and decide to buy. Will the IBI and catastral values be automatically revlaued due to the purchase?

So if I go for the house at 300 euro IBI, could I find that the IBI instantly jumps to 1200 euro IBI once I have bought it?


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

PicklesDP said:


> One question....
> 
> If I and moebaj find a property with low IBI and decide to buy. Will the IBI and catastral values be automatically revlaued due to the purchase?
> 
> So if I go for the house at 300 euro IBI, could I find that the IBI instantly jumps to 1200 euro IBI once I have bought it?


No. The only reason the catastral value of a property would be increased outwith one of the periodic general revisions in a municipality is if additions to the property were registered.

You may find that the IBI bills go up year on year, as some municipalities have formulas which mean that the bills increase by a certain percentage each year, but many others have kept theirs frozen since the financial crisis. In my area, the catastral values were increased in a revision carried out in 2008, but lowered by 27% in a further revision last year. 

One thing to look out for is the situation which can arise whereby if you buy a property where the catastral value x the municipal multiplier is higher than the actual price you paid (can happen in areas where catastral values were last revised at the height of the property boom and haven't been revised downwards since), then Hacienda can send you a bill post-purchase for the additional transfer tax due on the "official" value of the property, even if you genuinely paid a lower price.


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## gus-lopez (Jan 4, 2010)

My perfectly legal 4 bed , 2bath 120m2, cortijo has an ibi of .....................................17€ :lol:

When we purchased it the ibi was 23€, but in 2005 they revalued everyone & reduced not only the valor catastral by 30% , but the % you pay from 0,75% to 0,67%. It ended up at just over 15€ & has only got back to 17€ by yearly % increases. I get embarrassed occasionally by it but then I remember that I pay sky high car tax compared to people in Andalucia. :lol: & the feeling goes.


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## smitty5668 (Feb 25, 2015)

Lynn R said:


> You are not alone! It almost makes me think those funcionarios who can pass their oposicones and make sense of stuff like that must be jolly clever people who deserve their pay and conditions.
> 
> But we understand this much - this is why it's impossible to explain to anybody in layman's terms why IBI bills can vary so much.


amen to that lynn.


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