# Living in rural portugal



## AidanMcK

Hello there all,

I've been living a while now in quiet rural Uruguay now, and its great, but the distance to home (Ireland) is a problem and the price of flights make visits home to visit the family nearly impossible, which though not a huge deal now, may be a major problem when the folks get older, or if/when we have children etc.

Anyway before we take the plunge and buy here in Uruguay, I've been thinking a bit about Portugal. I'd like to live somewhere quiet and peaceful and safe, in probably central Portugal - a quiet country house with maybe some land, fruit trees etc. I stayed there about 10 years ago as a single man in Beja and thereabouts for a few months, but memories are vague and neither overly pleasant or unpleasent.

I have my own work (internet), and the language won't be much of a problem, as have Spanish already.

So I'd like to hear from any expats doing the same - ie. living in some remoter parts of Portugal, to get an idea of what life is like there - how the people are, the climate - are the winters really long and rainy and misearble? I'm a bit worried maybe also about noise from hunters or dogs barking (I'm a light sleeper alas), and maybe there are other factors to consider? I know the best idea would be to rent for a while and visit, but due to the enormous expense of the trips there it would be nice to get some info first.

Thanks...


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## AidanMcK

Although this sort of thing worries us most being animal lovers:

"As expats many of us are shocked and appalled by the treatment of animals, particularly dogs, in Portugal. All of my neighbours have dogs and ALL are tied up outside all day without any exercise or social interaction. It breaks my heart. "


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## Maggy Crawford

You WILL be bothered by barking dogs, believe me. The Portuguese appear to be totally immune to both the noise itself and the nuisance it causes to other people. By our standards, their treatment of animals is appalling. 

Regarding language, I have fluent Spanish and can read and understand Portuguese but the spoken language is incredibly difficult to master. I know someone who has fluent, French, Spanish and Italian who travelled from Lisbon to the interior by train and could not understand a word of conversations around him. To many untrained ears it sounds like an Eastern European language.


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## AidanMcK

Thanks for the info.

So its not possible to get away from the dogs then? They are everywhere?

As to the language, I meant I'll have a enough to get by (basic communication) which will do for the time being. I'm by no means fluent in Spanish either.


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## canoeman

No there not everywhere, but you would certainly need to find somewhere without near neighbors in earshot, which then could well give you a problem with a good internet connection which tends to be in areas of denser population, unless your very lucky to have a 3G mast very close by.

People generally are friendly, are the winters really long and rainy and misearble? no, check out Portugals met office site, Instituto de Meteorologia, IP Portugal, real rural life presents it's own challenges but if you have transport then everything you might need is accessible, and you don't need to go far off the beaten track to find what your after, it really is not necessary to really go to the remoter parts.

I would not under estimate the language as MC says it's difficult.


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## miradouro

Hi Aidan - I can speak for the Castelo de Vide/Marvao area.

- locals tend to be friendly but none-too-travelled, but it's the caipirinha-drinking expat community (people from all over, generally pretty sophisticated downshifters) that is particularly sociable and fun
- the Spanish border is just a few minutes away, so living is very much cross-border (life oriented as much towards interesting Spanish cities like Seville, Salamanca, Madrid, Toledo, Caceres as much as towards Portuguese cities like Lisbon and Evora)
- you get a lot of property for your money, especially if prepared to live in a secondary village not the touristy ones (village houses in e.g. Alegrete for 10-15,000 euros, farms start at 100,000 for a fixed up one, 30,000-50,000 for a decent size ruin)
- the cheapness of living in central Portugal (sleepy but beautiful) means that if you can freelance at Northern European rates you can save a lot and splash out on trips away, and you'll find there's a lot of villagey social life that is almost 'no cost' (house parties, friends sharing tools, books, DVD box sets); language classes are often free too;
- things are remote, but good roads and almost no traffic mean you can access e.g. Lisbon/Salamanca in 2 hours and Madrid in 3 hours. An advantage of living right on the border means you have a choice of airport hubs for flights (Lisbon/Madrid and some low-cost options from Valladolid, Porto, Faro, Seville). Petrol, gas bottles... in fact most things!... are also far cheaper in Spain.
- The seasons are not too harsh in the Alto Alentejo. The Serra de Estrela blocks a lot of the colder/wetter weather and the Tagus valley provides a kind of moderating microclimate (so Alto Alentejo is a better option than e.g. the schist villages, Zezere valley or the Douro valley ). The summers are fabulous and pleasant up in the mountains, while the rain (October-March) keeps the countryside much greener than much of the Planicie Dourada of the Alentejo around Beja/Aljezur. With all the dry stone walls, castle-villages and interesting mountains, it's very much like the Yorshire Dales, Mid Wales, Peak District and Dartmoor, only with plenty of sunshine!
- If you have family in Ireland, you are likely to go there for Christmas/New Year (December and January being wet months) 
- Amazon now delivers free!

Anyway, if you need more info let me know. If you are interested in trying Portugal out for a few months, there are often expats around who are happy to have reliable house-sitters for a few months.


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## Waterdog

Whilst you will get plenty of good advise about different areas, only you know what you want so if funds run to it, have you thought of acquiring a motor home as a first step?

You could explore the various options & establish there are no noisy dogs (or neighbours) before you make your final decision.


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## AidanMcK

My poor head - I've moved house/country various times in the past but it doesn't make it any easier - worse if anything.

Yes the more info the better and its greatly appreciated (thanks people!).


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## AidanMcK

Yes a motor home is a great idea and we'll probably go for that if we decide to check it out (getting more and more likely).

Alas I have here a full house of furniture (not the house itself yet luckily, but rented houses here come bare), a piano, a car, a german shepard and a cat, a lawn mower, etc. etc., so its a really big decision. Obviously it would very important to go and check it out first, the problem is 1) this is about 3000+ dollars just to do so and 2) one usually needs about 6 months to get a good feel for a place. So hence comments from people who have been there a long while are very helpful (not decisive, but helpful).


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## Waterdog

Re Motor Homes; there tons of mobile homes touring The Algarve through out the year so you should find plenty of company/advice on this idea. 

They may even have their own forum?

I haven't seen too many organised sites but lots of people seem to 'wild camp' (some in big groups for long periods) without getting too much hassle from the authorities.

From an earlier thread, I seem to recall that Surfin USA (an US expat) was considering a similar idea of getting a motor home to check out Portugal/Spain before deciding on where to settle.

Best of luck in your quest.


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## miradouro

If 3000 dollars is likely to be a major impact, I'd advise saving up a little more before making any leap. On the plus side, rents in rural Portugal are very low. It might also be an idea to consider helpexing early on Portugal volunteer work exchanges


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## canoeman

Only downside to motorhome if you don't own one is price, they are neither cheap to buy or hire here
Standvirtual is major Portuguse internet site for vehicles and will give you some idea Venda Autocaravanas, Autocaravanas Usadas e Comprar Autocaravanas no Standvirtual

Plenty of sites throughout Portugal, private and public, nearly every Camra has a camp site, as it's a popular pastime here nationals and visitors.


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## Dennis

Waterdog said:


> Re Motor Homes;
> 
> They may even have their own forum?
> 
> Best of luck in your quest.


Yes they do, several........here is three to be going on with......<HERE> <HERE> and <HERE>.
My first introduction to Portugal was with a motorhome and if I can be of assistance just ask.


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## Waterdog

Great stuff Dennis, as you may gather, although I have been in the motor home game. I have no practical experience in Portugal or Spain.

Whilst there are local council & private sites, mindful of cost, am I right in saying that the authorities in Iberia have a fairly relaxed attitude toward wild camping?


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## Dennis

Waterdog said:


> Great stuff Dennis, as you may gather, although I have been in the motor home game. I have no practical experience in Portugal or Spain.
> 
> Whilst there are local council & private sites, mindful of cost, am I right in saying that the authorities in Iberia have a fairly relaxed attitude toward wild camping?


Hi Waterdog
It is true to say that Portugal has a more relaxed attitude to wild camping especially central and northern Portugal but experiences with irresponsible motorhomers with regard the disposal of "black" water and overstaying their welcome in the Algarve has made the authorities tighten up and regular policing of wild camping areas has made parts of the Algarve virtual no go areas for motorhomers.
There are many places to "stopover" in central and north Portugal and I have included part of a thread from a motorhome forum that gives details of some of the stopovers used by the forum members.
I personally had no problem when I toured souhern and central Portugal for many weeks prior to buying and settling here permanently.
Have a look <HERE>
Good luck.


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## AidanMcK

:focus:

So any more insights into life in rural Portugal then? I've heard from someone (not here in these forums) that its all very doom and gloom and miserable there now with the economic crisis and all, and its the last place you would want to consider moving to, any thoughts?

He also mentioned the seemingly biggest problem there (seems to me anyway) of abandoned puppies everywhere, and tied-up dogs everywhere, and barking dogs everywhere.


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## siobhanwf

AidanMcK said:


> :
> 
> He also mentioned the seemingly biggest problem there (seems to me anyway) of abandoned puppies everywhere, and tied-up dogs everywhere, and barking dogs everywhere.


you will find in most rural areas there will be several dogs in one house, or rather garden. They will generally all be chained. They therefore get bored and start barking. They will bark at anything! 
The Portuguese in rural areas look on dogs differently than we do. Very few if any are neutered so stray dogs can be a problem. 
There is very little you can do about it. 
As the owner of two one year old boxers, the lady who helps in the house thinks I am nuts to have them indoors.
Most of my neighbours have four + dogs. I have just earned to live with it. Even the cats are on chains.


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## Waterdog

:focus:We dogs are taking over - 2 simultaneous threads! Woof


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## siobhanwf

Waterdog said:


> :focus:We dogs are taking over - 2 simultaneous threads! Woof


No Waterdog we don't. This particular thread is on living in rural Portugal


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## miradouro

AidanMcK said:


> :focus:
> 
> So any more insights into life in rural Portugal then? I've heard from someone (not here in these forums) that its all very doom and gloom and miserable there now with the economic crisis and all, and its the last place you would want to consider moving to, any thoughts?
> 
> He also mentioned the seemingly biggest problem there (seems to me anyway) of abandoned puppies everywhere, and tied-up dogs everywhere, and barking dogs everywhere.


-- Yup, there's plenty of doom and gloom about right now. The thing to remember is that this is nothing new... the miserabilism of fado lyrics reflects a Portuguese way of living and the relative absence of _joie de vivre_. 

-- The way rural Portuguese (and Spanish) treat animals is certainly shocking, but it's something that we all hope will be ironed out as the Portuguese encounter - and perhaps even enforce - EU animal welfare legislation (for Northern Europeans who care about the issue, see the dogsofportugal website). On top of the dogs-on-chains and strays issues, you also have the problem of hobbled goats/sheep (you often see limping animals with atrophied legs... horrible), and at this time of year, the ******* hunters in camouflage gear who'll shoot anything wild, as long as they get a macho day out in their _jipe_ or pickup with a snorkel on the bonnet.

To summarise
The plus-sides of rural Portugal are: slow pace of life; climate; views/landscape; fun neighbours (esp. the expat downshifters); relatively cheap property in many areas (although some rural areas of France/Spain/Italy/Germany are just as cheap); cheap wine/market food; very low council tax rates (but expensive internet/electricity); excellent rural restaurants (Sao Rosas in Estremoz, Praca Velha in Castelo Branco, Bussaco Palace near Coimbra); fun Helpexer communities/hosts; fabulous B+Bs to spend occasional weekends away; excellent surf beaches; a choice of low-cost flights within driving distance (Faro/Porto/Lisbon/Valladolid/Madrid/Seville). 

The downsides are: crap shops; slow pace of life; the economy; bureaucracy; the dourness of many natives (but not all); generally poor customer service; distance from the rest of the EU (6-10 hours to the French border); no excellent universities nearby for self-education; a lack of plannng rules, which has already led to concrete/villa sprawl and uglifying of some areas (Algarve/Lisbon Coast/Silver Coast).

Tip: Look up the Emma's House In Portugal blog for good insights on rural Portugal: the good, the bad, the quirky, the spectacular.


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## siobhanwf

Well I don't know where you shop mirodouro but I actually enjoy shopping here much to the old man's disgust . I moved here for a slower pace of life anyway
and the distance is no problem if you want to fly ...or even drive.
Self learning university education is mostly done on line. :ranger:


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## antonyhawk13

So how is the life there?


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## Waterdog

Like most places, life in Portugal is what you make it. To really enjoy it you have to 'go with the flow'. That is why, when asked, I always suggest rather than rush in & buy right away, get a motor home or rent for a while & see if it is for you. 

Most important, you must like what you find or at least accept it because (barking dogs et al) nothing is going to change for you. :clap2::clap2::clap2::clap2::clap2::clap2:


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## siobhanwf

Waterdog said:


> Like most places, life in Portugal is what you make it. To really enjoy it you have to 'go with the flow'. That is why, when asked, I always suggest rather than rush in & buy right away, get a motor home or rent for a while & see if it is for you.
> 
> Most important, you must like what you find or at least accept it because (barking dogs et al) nothing is going to change for you. :clap2::clap2::clap2::clap2::clap2::clap2:


Exactl!! The Portuguese live the way the Portuguese live. I moved here so I have no right to force my opinions on them. Take it as it comes, don't whinging and whine. Nothing is going to change. So acceptance is the order of the day. You will frequently hear "we have always done it this way!"


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## miradouro

Yup - as with all expat experiences, 'go with the flow' and a healthy dose of stoicism is advisable.

That said, practical advice on the pros/cons is a good means to ensure expectations are realistic: forewarned is forearmed. 

A major practical reason at the end of 2011 for considering other options is the impact of the eurozone crisis. Don't get me wrong, I like rural Portugal, especially the castle towns of the Alto Alentejo, and love that the Portuguese interior is right next to Spain. On a purely rational level I also like the Portuguese IHT regime, local food markets, the low cash-burn of rustic living, and the fact that Amazon delivers for free. So for downshifters seeking space and countryside, it's certainly an excellent option, and it rivals the other 'rural downshift' options in Southern Europe, like Tarn-et-Garonne, the Limousin, the Croatian interior, Bulgaria, Priorat/Alt Camp and the North of Valencia Province etc. 
---
Yet at the moment, it's important to advise incoming expats that there's are major downside risks, at least for the next couple of years: 

- maybe 40-60% capital burn of property value if the _escudo _is reintroduced - this is a small risk, but still a risk!; 
- the near-term cost-of-living repercussions of hikes in VAT/Euribor/fuel/utility prices/removal of mortgage relief - these are likely to add a few hundred euros a month to bills; 
- the likely long-term stasis in property values relative to accrual in higher-growth countries - Greece and Portugal will now need a long time to recover from their 'junk' status in the eyes of the financial world. This has enormous repercussions for those who long-term, want to keep their options open. 

In short, these are all reasons - in the current climate - to 'try before you buy': to rent a place first (preferably with all-in bills included). With rents currently rising in London, for example, I'd advise a buy-to-let there and to use the proceeds to rent a palatial house in rural Portugal.

AidanMK: to return to your original post, as you mention that a key reason to return from Uruguay is to be close to your family, why not consider Ireland itself? There are plenty of real estate bargains to be had at the moment in rural Ireland on Daft.ie : Property for Sale in Ireland, Overseas Property, Property to Let, Houses to Rent, Accommodation Sharing, Parking Spaces in Ireland (Dublin, Cork, Galway, Limerick, Belfast). And low cost airlines will get you to Portugal for a bit of sunshine.


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## siobhanwf

Miradouro, have you been to ireland recently. Property prices may have dropped severely but the price of food and drink hasn't. Last time my hubby bought a round of 4 drinks in a normal pub in celbridge he got very little change from €40!
The cost of cars there is a great as Portugal and utilities are through the roof.


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## AidanMcK

And over 20 years of nearly constant rain was more than enough for one life time.

Re: all the replies - thanks for all the info people, its being read carefully (and the more the better).

It looks like a decent visit will be needed first before any firm decision can be made. Maybe I can meet up with a few of you rural livers next June or thereabouts, and ye can show me your country farmhouses and some of the joys and/or miseries that come with them? Don't worry - I won't stay long.


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## nandnjudge2

Hello there

During your travels searching for your desired location in Portugal, do not forget to consider the North

I have made two videos which illustrate what life is like up here

They are as follows











I hope you enjoy them


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## AidanMcK

Thanks for those.

I had a feeling that the winter's in the North were a bit too long?

Any major differences in the north from the center then? I presume it also has the problems of chained up dogs everywhere, barking dogs everywhere, and hunters doing there not so appealing stuff?


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## nandnjudge2

From our own personal experience barking chained up dogs is a problem all over Portugal it is not only limited to the North, yes the winters are longer but the summers are coolers and we do not have the annual problem of water shortages. In recent years hunting practices have been controlled. It is horses for courses, if you feel lonely and you wanted to be surrounded with Brits the North is NOT the place for you. You will see from our web site we have a small but very active Expat community both sides of the river Minho that embraces Galicia. There are some strong economic reasons living up here if your finances are stretched, the cost of most things are cheaper here from property to everyday basics with the added advantage of the flexibility of being able to nip over to Spain where prices are even lower. Petrol is Euros 1.25 a litre


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## Waterdog

Assume petrol is €1.25 is in Spain. What is price of a litre in Northern Portugal?


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## canoeman

Mais Gasolina - Preços dos combustíveis em Portugal

you can check whole country here


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## Waterdog

Rather than going for an in depth study on the price of fuel in Portugal, my question was a request for a comparison of like for like in a given area.

This question could be broadened into a comparison of the basic cost of living on both sides of the boarder in a given area.

I suspect the answer to this question could have a big impact on where new visitors finally settle.


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## canoeman

Start a new topic then, the North is unique in that it neighbours with a Spain that is extremely well developed and populated, more like living North or South of the Douro or the Tejo, unlike the Eastern border which tends to be very sparsely populated or have any major towns.


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## siobhanwf

canoeman said:


> Start a new topic then, the North is unique in that it neighbours with a Spain that is extremely well developed and populated, more like living North or South of the Douro or the Tejo, unlike the Eastern border which tends to be very sparsely populated or have any major towns.


New thread started.....waiting for your reply

http://www.expatforum.com/expats/po...ugal-v-spain-price-comparison.html#post666500


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## siobhanwf

Waterdog said:


> Rather than going for an in depth study on the price of fuel in Portugal, my question was a request for a comparison of like for like in a given area.
> 
> This question could be broadened into a comparison of the basic cost of living on both sides of the boarder in a given area.
> 
> I suspect the answer to this question could have a big impact on where new visitors finally settle.


I have started a new thread with your wording above

http://www.expatforum.com/expats/po...ugal-v-spain-price-comparison.html#post666500


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## robc

miradouro said:


> A major practical reason........Yet at the moment, it's important to advise incoming expats that there's are major downside risks, at least for the next couple of years:
> 
> - maybe 40-60% capital burn of property value if the _escudo _is reintroduced - this is a small risk, but still a risk!;
> - the near-term cost-of-living repercussions of hikes in VAT/Euribor/fuel/utility prices/removal of mortgage relief - these are likely to add a few hundred euros a month to bills;
> - the likely long-term stasis in property values relative to accrual in higher-growth countries - Greece and Portugal will now need a long time to recover from their 'junk' status in the eyes of the financial world. This has enormous repercussions for those who long-term, want to keep their options open.
> 
> In short, these are all reasons - With rents currently rising in London, for example, I'd advise a buy-to-let there and to use the proceeds to rent a palatial house in rural Portugal.
> 
> AidanMK: to return to your original post, as you mention that a key reason to return from Uruguay is to be close to your family, why not consider Ireland itself? .


I appreciate what you are trying to say but I think that you need to be careful about some of the advise given, for example, buy to let in London. Rents have and will always rise in Capital Cities, the additional costs of a buy to let in London have risen dramatically, especially more so should you need a mortgage, occupancy ratios are running at a 10 year low, Insurance costs are high so it may not be the "pot of gold" one expects.

If one is looking for a totally safe proposition with regard to capital investment and future security then the best bet would be to look outside the EU.

The capital burn risk on property would take place but would be short lived, indeed as found in Argentina there would be a property boom shortly after the currency change as capital controls are lifted and foreign investors pour money in searching for Investment opportunities, this would be more so in countries like Portugal and not Spain, Ireland or Italy all of whom have structural deficits for other reasons compared to Portugal.

Looking closer to the EU there is already a default model in place with Iceland.

Massively geared, defaulted, now recovering, google "Iceland Financials" and there is plenty of interesting reading.

Anyone contemplating buying property in any country and currently looking for short term gain really ought to have a reality check, it will not happen for the foreseeable future.

As ever "you pays your money and you takes your pick"

Rob


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## AidanMcK

:focus:

_nandnjudge2 wrote:_


> "From our own personal experience barking chained up dogs is a problem all over Portugal it is not only limited to the North, yes the winters are longer but the summers are coolers and we do not have the annual problem of water shortages. In recent years hunting practices have been controlled. It is horses for courses, if you feel lonely and you wanted to be surrounded with Brits the North is NOT the place for you."


Sounds good then, apart from the dogs problem which seems everywhere. I'm not worried about having expats around at all, so we'll definitely check out the north also when we go next June/July. Cheaper is a big plus.


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## AidanMcK

My wife came across a saying (Portuguese i think) that people in the north have 9 months winter and 3 months hell.

Doesn't sound right, being on a line with the south of France?


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## siobhanwf

AidanMcK said:


> My wife came across a saying (Portuguese i think) that people in the north have 9 months winter and 3 months hell.
> 
> Doesn't sound right, being on a line with the south of France?



Something lost in the translation 


as a general guideline BRAGA
Average Weather for Braga, NT - Temperature and Precipitation


or Coimbra 

Weather Forecast - Coimbra, Portugal - Local & Long Range | Wunderground


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## canoeman

If you look at the Viana da Costello region, you'll find a very different climate to Braga and if you compare to Algarve similar but more seasonal, Viana region the top left hand corner.

Instituto de Meteorologia, IP Portugal


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## siobhanwf

Same site but try this page link Instituto de Meteorologia, IP Portugal


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## AidanMcK

Thanks for the links.

To make things more clear, how many months of the year would you claim to have medium to nice weather, and how many not so nice?

In Ireland from memory it would be about 2.5 good / 9.5 bad (I might be being generous), and here in Uruguay about 8 good / 4 bad.


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## canoeman

Think more the opposite to Ireland, a lot depends on your definition of bad and no two years are quite the same, with probably now a slightly more unsettled pattern but that applies to everywhere.


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## siobhanwf

AidanMcK said:


> Thanks for the links.
> 
> To make things more clear, how many months of the year would you claim to have medium to nice weather, and how many not so nice?
> 
> In Ireland from memory it would be about 2.5 good / 9.5 bad (I might be being generous), and here in Uruguay about 8 good / 4 bad.


Definitely generous Aidan  have you forgotten the days with fine soft rain?
We live just north of Lisbon (80kms) and this year we had good weather from March right the way through to the end of October/beginning of November. Pool was in use until the end of October. Our solar panels for hot water work very well apart from the odd day when it may need a little top up. We are in Germany for a few days but just before we left we were still sitting out on the patio with our coffees 17.5c the second week in November!! Would be considered a warm summer day where I come from in the emerald isle!!


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## AidanMcK

Right well we'll be in Portugal for a week only starting next Wednesday the 28th March. Arriving in to Porto and will do a quick tour around the North and maybe Center to see what's going on.

Anyone fancy offering us a cup of tea (or port) and a chat? I might post some PMs if that's ok? It would be nice to have a glimpse of an example ex-pat country lifestyle first hand.


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## jsmoir

Aidan- As you have lived in Uruguay, there are a number of us who are considering that country, and would LOVE for you to give your impressions on this forum. Just look up Uruguay, and post something. We'd be very grateful.


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## AidanMcK

You'll get loads of information on the SociedadSouthron Forums - do a Google search for it as I don't want to break any rules putting a link in.

To sum up briefly about our part of Uruguay (country life near a river beach - Colonia Valdense, Colonia):
Weather - some like it, I don't, winter is too cold, summer way too hot, basically there's about 2 to 4 nice months a year. Way too many flies where we live and mosquitoes, crickets, spiders, ants, etc. - sitting outside to enjoy nature is nearly impossible. Very very very safe here - no crime - may get robbed if very unlucky or if you leave your house empty for extended periods - no murders or guns. People nice and decent. Very boring, not much to do or options, although easy enough access to Buenos Aires if that's your thing. Nice empty river beach down the road but not sure really how clean it is being near-ish to Buenos Aires. Bad roads, worst food you will find on the planet, esp. in restaurants, don't even think of it if you are a vegetarian, very poor selection of foods/vegetables anywhere except in some semi-decent super expensive supermarkets in Montevideo. Quite expensive now also to live ($40 US for bad internet, $100 for elec., $2 for a small bad coffee, $8000 for an old car, $100000 to build yourself a quarter decent house, basically everything has a 50% to 100% import tax on it, though land itself is still reasonably cheap and very productive). Towns/cities are different but noisy due to huge amounts of dogs and of course scooters. Different parts of Uruguay will give different experiences. Flights to and from South America from anywhere (even from different countries in South America) are horrendously expensive.
Bear in mind we are sick of the place and want to get out. However the nice people and safeness are huge important positive points and if you have some cash you could do a lot worse.


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## maidentales

I also moved my land base originally from Crete to central northern Portugal due to the distance of travelling to/from the UK.

I believe that, to Ireland, you can use Ryanair from Porto - so perhaps that's an area you should consider.

However, the winters are wet - but with breaks in the rain - and sometimes the further north you go the wetter it could be, although not always!

I have a house in a quiet village with plenty of wildlife with dogs around which are generally quiet as the village is quiet during the night time.

However, I have "holidayed" with my family near Santarem and Orique and there the owners of the dogs appear not to be too concerned about their barking the entire night which can be off putting.

People are great and accommodating, or at least I have found that for the period of times I've spent here (on and off).

I don't hear any traffic at night although the house I have is 20-25 minutes from the mainline train station and I'm in the hills where the climate is more temperate.

Recently there's been a lot of rain but it comes and goes in general and the next few days are set to be lovely sunshine.


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## AidanMcK

Yes sounds fine. We'll be getting to Portugal as soon as possible. Might need a quick stop over (1 year) though in Argentina first alas.


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## Adios

Tagging this thread for further reading. 
My two expat targets are Uruguay and Pt, so the original poster has insights I want to learn


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## knocka

Cheaper cost of living and property prices are to be found in the villages to the north and east of Coimbra in central Portugal (Lousa, Gois, Arganil). There is also a good ex pat community but it is wide spread so you won't find any "little Britain" type areas.


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