# Spanish Healthcare vs British Healthcare



## Kenwhite77 (Aug 30, 2012)

Hi everyone,

I am currently in the process of deciding what to do with regards to healthcare in Spain.

The reason I am asking is my best friend has a brain tumour and the care he has received in the UK is excellent and once being an accountant in the NHS the cost of his care would be close to £900k over the last three years. It has made me realise the importance of healthcare for myself and my family as he is only 32 and you don't know what is around the corner.

I personally feel if I was living in Spain and something of this nature occurred I would want to return to the UK to be close to my family.

Options:-

1. I contact DWP and get two years cover. Do I then lose my healthcare rights in the UK as I am clearly a non resident. If the worst happen and I then wanted to return to the UK what is my entitlement being a British citizen?

2. Private Healthcare in Spain, I get paid in the UK so will pay tax and NI so will continue to be entitled to healthcare in the UK. If something serious happens I can fly home.

Option two seems to be the safe option in my opinion.

Any thoughts would be much appreciated.

Ken


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

I think if something happened to me I would want to be flown from the UK to Spain!!! From what I've seen and altho their "bedside manner" isnt quite as good, their care, attitude, facilities and equipment is second to none!! It certainly makes the NHS hospitals in the UK look very old and shabby by comparison

Jo xxx


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Kenwhite77 said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> I am currently in the process of deciding what to do with regards to healthcare in Spain.
> 
> ...


sorry to hear about your friend 

I understand your feelings - but if you live in Spain you have no right to healthcare in the UK anyway, except for emergency care as a tourist -whether you have private ins here or use the state system, no matter where you are paid

in either case though, if you move back to the UK your healthcare rights are reinstated


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

jojo said:


> I think if something happened to me I would want to be flown from the UK to Spain!!! From what I've seen and altho their "bedside manner" isnt quite as good, their care, attitude, facilities and equipment is second to none!!
> 
> Jo xxx



As someone who works in the health service in the UK i think the care you get is generally v good however I do think it is also very hit and miss. My trust is a very small and very specialised so for me to be honest I am in a bit of an NHS bubble. The staff I work with are dedicated and professional, but then we do not contract out cleaning or estate management. As a nursing sister I am responsible for what happens etc.

Having said all of that... the NHS is not the be all and end all of health care, and although I have not experienced -yet - the spanish healthcare system I have been told is very good.

Not sure what I am saying. but I am sure there are positives and negatives in both
:confused2:

[quotein either case though, if you move back to the UK your healthcare rights are reinstated
][/quote]

you know thats what I love about this site you learn so much just reading the threadsxxxx


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

cambio said:


> As someone who works in the health service in the UK i think the care you get is generally v good however I do think it is also very hit and miss. My trust is a very small and very specialised so for me to be honest I am in a bit of an NHS bubble. The staff I work with are dedicated and professional, but then we do not contract out cleaning or estate management. As a nursing sister I am responsible for what happens etc.
> 
> Having said all of that... the NHS is not the be all and end all of health care, and although I have not experienced -yet - the spanish healthcare system I have been told is very good.
> 
> ...



Are you my long lost twin lol???? I used to work in the NHS/PCT too A practice nurse and I was in charge of our local out of hours GP service before it was taken over!!! I have to say that when "the chips are down" the NHS does rise to the occasion, but sadly and unlike the OPs friend, I have known two very close family members who were let down badly by the NHS - My mother, who was diagnosed with a compacted faeces (AKA bowel cancer) and my mother in law who was diagnosed with wind (AKA a burst intestine). 

When I broke my leg in Spain, I was xrayed, plastered and out within an hour. When I went to a UK hospital for the same leg problem(a long story), I was at the hospital for 8 hours! and even then I didnt go to the plaster room!!

But as I say, I used to work for the NHS - well the PCT, and altho it was grossly misused and underfunded, the care and dedication behind it was exemplary!

Jo xxx


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## jimenato (Nov 21, 2009)

jojo you've posted twice. If you know a mod - ask them to delete one for you.


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## Madliz (Feb 4, 2011)

With no social security payments here, we were not entitled to state healthcare and have been with Sanitas for many years. I have never had reason to complain. When my husband was diagnosed with cancer, every test possible was performed with no questions asked. The chemo and radiation, his operation (11 hours and 2nd only in difficulty to open-heart surgery), the month in ICU, the 14 separate admissions to hospital and numerous outpatient trips were all covered. Only the drugs that were consumed at home were bought privately, everything else was provided. Given the choice of returning to NHS care or private care in Spain, which do you think I would pick? 

I can understand those with close ties in the UK wishing to return there for serious problems. Therefore, if I were the OP, I would take state care here in Spain and, if money were no object, spend the extra on a private policy in the UK.


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

jimenato said:


> jojo you've posted twice. If you know a mod - ask them to delete one for you.


its ok she is just posting for me her twin!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## bob_bob (Jan 5, 2011)

As a retired nurse I'm proud to have worked in several acute areas of the NHS where the care has always been first rate. Spanish health care has a good reputation though I believe long term aftercare is poor, certainly for the elderly frail and or confused.

My mother in law is due her third operation to correct the absolute botch job she received on her leg in Spain.

Quick fix up, operation, then Spain should be fine, for long term care or treatment I'd say NHS.


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## Trubrit (Nov 24, 2010)

I had a quintuple heart bye pass in 2000 and I am a diabetic. In the UK I was always being called to the doctors surgery for check up for this, that and the other. Since arriving in Spain 2 years ago I have found that you have to ask for the different tests as otherwise you won't be called to the surgery. That said, once you do ask, the care is identical if not better than in the UK, so I feel that if you don't ask you don't get !! I have just realised that my 31 year old daughter has not been called in for a cervical smear test, and she has lived in Spain for 3 years.


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## brocher (Mar 21, 2011)

Kenwhite77 said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> I am currently in the process of deciding what to do with regards to healthcare in Spain.
> 
> ...




1. As far as I understand, the right to NHS treatment is based on residency, so you would cease to be eligible while living in Spain, regardless of whether you contact the DWP for your two years cover.

2. Again, as I understand it, if you are resident in Spain, you are legally obliged to pay your taxes and S.S. in Spain, regardless of where you earn your money. I don't thnk this is optional. You will then be eligible for Spanish healthcare so your only legal option, I should think, would be to try and get private Britisn Insurance.


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## daleinspain (Jun 30, 2010)

I SUFFERED A MASSIVE STROKE IN SPAIN i had padron and nie i thought i was a guest in threir country i would do the right thing and help local businesses toRGANIZING FUND RAISERS TO supply Spain with a children's home in elche and raising enough money to buy 3 ambulances...at the time of my stroke i was autonomo had a full plastic sip card yet on the night of my stroke an ambulance wasn't available a friend drove me to local hospital only to be told go away drunk English you come here expecting everything for nothing.i was refused admission if it hadn't been for the persistence of my wife and family.they would of turned me onto the street!eventually they admitted me and left me on a trolley in a&e from 2 am until 7pm b4 looking at me when they finally did realize I'd had a stroke the look of terror on their faces realizing their mistake.tried to use the excuse that i was not on padron so i could not be treated even though my children was enrolled in a Spanish school.(you need padron to be able to do this!!!!)let alone the 49,0000€of autonomo payments i had made and 20,000€i had raised for the country. after fighting the system for 3 years i had to give in as i had lost my business and run out of savings i am now on the road to recovery thanks to the nhs.i have been interviewed by national Spanish TV and la gazzetta Europe's largest newspaper groups. this was not a language problem i had 2 translators with me personal friends.i will now be prosecuting torrevieja hospital for negligence 15m€which will never replace the arm and leg i lost due to their mistake.BEWARE IF YOU COME TO SPAIN HAVE PRIVATE HEALTH INSURANCE. do not rely on the Spanish health care system!or in fact EHIC...FORMER e111


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## bob_bob (Jan 5, 2011)

Hope you get sorted fella and good luck for the future.


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## Jaxx (Apr 21, 2010)

jojo said:


> I think if something happened to me I would want to be flown from the UK to Spain!!! From what I've seen and altho their "bedside manner" isnt quite as good, their care, attitude, facilities and equipment is second to none!! It certainly makes the NHS hospitals in the UK look very old and shabby by comparison
> 
> Jo xxx


My husband is having the best treatment he could ever have wished for for his health condition here in Spain.The cleanliness of the hospitals and the treatment he has had are far better than he would have had in the UK.My husband began his treatment within a few days of diagnosis whereas a friends father in the UK had to wait many months to begin his treatment for the same condition.No comparison Spanish hospitals and health system every time!


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## Sunhat (Jun 20, 2012)

Trubrit said:


> I had a quintuple heart bye pass in 2000 and I am a diabetic. In the UK I was always being called to the doctors surgery for check up for this, that and the other. Since arriving in Spain 2 years ago I have found that you have to ask for the different tests as otherwise you won't be called to the surgery. That said, once you do ask, the care is identical if not better than in the UK, so I feel that if you don't ask you don't get !! I have just realised that my 31 year old daughter has not been called in for a cervical smear test, and she has lived in Spain for 3 years.


We joined the Spanish NHS system and I had my first appointment last week, to inform the Dr I was diabetic and I have a funny tumour in my leg. She was not bothered by either, did not say come back for a check, nothing! I will go back in March and ask for a revision blood rest as I am diet controlled only. 
I am due to get my leg re-scanned (I had been having CAT scans with the private insurance) in June, I think I might just get an x-ray. I will ask to be referred to a ´bone´ Dr then. 

I am not keen on the ´family member´ staying the night beside my bed, if it is my hubby, he snores!! And I have no daughters, so I am sure my sons will not want to sit beside my bed all night, or I would want them, come to that.

Sunhat


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## bob_bob (Jan 5, 2011)

Its very easy for people to think a nice, new, shines hospital in Spain is good, thats not always the case. For instance Prevalence of hospital-acquired infections in ... [J Hosp Infect. 1992] - PubMed - NCBI

There are also reasons why two people with similar conditions may start treatment months apart.


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## GallineraGirl (Aug 13, 2011)

bob_bob said:


> Its very easy for people to think a nice, new, shines hospital in Spain is good, thats not always the case. For instance Prevalence of hospital-acquired infections in ... [J Hosp Infect. 1992] - PubMed - NCBI
> 
> There are also reasons why two people with similar conditions may start treatment months apart.


This report is for 1992! Perhaps things have changed?

My father caught 2 serious infections after a knee replacement op in the U.K. The MRSA nearly killed him. The hospital was dirty. The same rubbish was on the floor for several days and sinks were blocked etc. Staff routinely ignored the MRSA precautions 'gloves and aprons' notice outside his room and staff did not carry out adequate personal care, so my Mother had to wash my Father's hair etc.

My Mother-in-Law was in hospital in Spain at much the same time. The hospital rooms were spacious and spotless clean. All personal care was carried out by staff. We were not expected to stay the night. The Doctors we saw spoke better English than the ones in the English hospital and were more available.!

Both the patients were in hospital for around 6 weeks so we had plenty of time to notice the differences. The English staff were all very pleasant but many mistakes were made in carrying out treatments, care etc. The Spanish staff did not have a good bedside manner and did not seem very sympathetic but were very efficient.

If I had the choice, I would opt for our hospital in Spain over the one my parents use in England.

I also find it impressive that an elderly friend of ours here in Spain, has been kept alive for 6 years whilst suffering from Pancreatic Cancer. No expense has been spared with his drug treatment and he regularly has tests and scans. Also a friend with very serious breast cancer had drug treatment here with drugs not used in the U.K. because of high cost. She has made a full recovery.


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## Jaxx (Apr 21, 2010)

bob_bob said:


> Its very easy for people to think a nice, new, shines hospital in Spain is good, thats not always the case. For instance Prevalence of hospital-acquired infections in ... [J Hosp Infect. 1992] - PubMed - NCBI
> 
> There are also reasons why two people with similar conditions may start treatment months apart.


The hospital where my husband is being treated in Spain is certainly not a new hospital believe me but he has had the best treatment we could have wished for.
I have worked in the health system for many years in the UK and believe me Spain is far better. Just one example X rays=make an apt to see the G P usually you can get in the following week.You then wait for an apt for the X-ray.You then have to wait 10 days, then you have to wait for an apt with GP for the result,you may have the result possibly all in all 3 weeks.In Spain apt at doctors same day as you request it in the morning,straight up to hospital with the form, X ray done and out again in 20 mins straight back to doctor knock on his door result given to us all in less than 2 hours! 
My husband was offered treatment and could have started the next day,the person in the UK had to wait many many weeks even before an MRI was offered and diagnosis made, then months before treatment started.No comparison,don't know why some people still go back to the UK for treatment.


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## daleinspain (Jun 30, 2010)

lets clarify this now. area22 is where the fault in Spanish healthcare system fails(orihuela costa torrevieja area) between myself and_/SNIP/_ it has been proven area 22 employes unqualified doctors! we found at least 10 major doctors at the hospital had very basic training and never completed their doctors training my doctor in fact who i wont name was angry at these findings when approached asking to see her paper she phoned the guardia civil to have me arrested took me to court for threatening behavior. and yes i was paralyzed in a wheel chair. she failed to appear in court on the day knowing i would demand proof of her qualifications! so the case against me was dropped immediately.. again best advise is have private health care insurance and don't come to area22 without it!!!
i am in the middle of taking torrevieja hospital to court for negligence with the backing of the head of the Spanish church the pp party and sprains top lawyer has taken my case on a no win no fee basis he is that confident he can prove this!
expats beware!


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## daleinspain (Jun 30, 2010)

incidentally i have returned to UK with medication supplied by this hospital to be told by my consultant of UK's best stroke centers. to change my medication immediately before it kills me!
this hospital may not reflect hospitals in other areas of Spain but it makes u think don't it?as each hospital on the so called Spanish nhs are in fact operating as private businesses.independently the San Jamie hospital.also in torrevieja has been highly praised but this hospital is private only!


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## youngagepensioner (May 18, 2009)

My husband had an operation in Universidad Hospital de San Cecilio in Granada in 2007. His care was excellent, he had a private room and ensuite and was kept in for twelve days until the wound started to heal. (And the room overlooked the Alhambra Palace  ). This was Spanish NHS.

In the UK ten years earlier he had the same op. He was sent home after 24 hours with it still bleeding.

So for in-patient treatment, Spain every time (although we are back in the UK now, so we do not have that choice!).


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## bob_bob (Jan 5, 2011)

GallineraGirl said:


> This report is for 1992! Perhaps things have changed?
> 
> My father caught 2 serious infections after a knee replacement op in the U.K. The MRSA nearly killed him. The hospital was dirty. The same rubbish was on the floor for several days and sinks were blocked etc. Staff routinely ignored the MRSA precautions 'gloves and aprons' notice outside his room and staff did not carry out adequate personal care, so my Mother had to wash my Father's hair etc.
> 
> ...


Extended care like that is the norm in the UK so long as the patient responds to the treatment regime (I nursed in palliative care). Its the same with dialysis in the UK, its often used to extend the life of the elderly, unlike Spain where its use is often withheld due to high costs I've recently been told and nature is left to take its course.

As I said earlier, my mother in law is on operation No3 to sort out the mess the Spanish left her in. Let me think back to my nursing days and what *I was directly* (as a nurse) involved in regarding brits who had had treatment in Spain which needed sorting out upon their return.

A lad after a motor bike accident, had his jaw wired, came home full of infection and needed a rebuild to sort out.

Five or six, cases where limbs were were badly set after breaks/fractures and needed major work.

Another five or six or ten (can't remember) of people coming home with badly infected wounds that had been stitched and treated over there.

An old dear whose family got her home from Spain full of pressure sores after being left lying on a Spanish hospital bed for many days without 'pressure relief' or the use of an air mattress.

Two very ill dialysis patients who had been wrongly dialysed over there. Take into account these are day patients on holiday who dialyse three times a week with us and we provide the dialysis unit in Spain with *FULL documentation on the patient* so they can be treated and enjoy their holiday (the NHS pays Spain for the day treatment while the patient is on holiday). 

Sorry, the Spain is the be all and end all and the NHS is poor not only pees me off but is pie in the sky.


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## GallineraGirl (Aug 13, 2011)

bob_bob said:


> Extended care like that is the norm in the UK so long as the patient responds to the treatment regime (I nursed in palliative care). Its the same with dialysis in the UK, its often used to extend the life of the elderly, unlike Spain where its use is often withheld due to high costs I've recently been told and nature is left to take its course.
> 
> As I said earlier, my mother in law is on operation No3 to sort out the mess the Spanish left her in. Let me think back to my nursing days and what I was directly (as a nurse) involved in regarding brits who had had treatment in Spain which needed sorting out upon their return.
> 
> ...


I did not mean to suggest in my comment that the Spanish system is perfect. Of course, no healthcare ever can be as it will always be inadequately funded. All we can do on this forum is relate our own experiences - good or bad. I saw two elderly people cared for over an extended period in hospital in Spain and England and made my judgement on that basis. Although to be fair, we were allowed to be with the patient all day in the Spanish hospital but only at visiting times in England, so we have a much clearer idea of what went on in the Spanish hospital.

Referring to your comments about patients sent home from holiday with poor treatment - a friend of ours was on holiday in England and admitted to hospital as an emergency with a suspected thrombosis. However, it turned out to be another issue with her leg. She was discharged after treatment and was told that the problem would be a life long one and that there was no cure. She was not happy with this, and on her return to Spain, went to see her local doctor for a second opinion, who immediately sent her to a specialist who told her that there was an operation available for her condition...

I think that what we should learn from this thread is that poor treatment can happen in both countries. Health services are lacking in funding and run by humans who can, and do, make mistakes. All staff have to learn their jobs and some are inexperienced. Medicine is not an exact science either, sometimes a choice of treatment does not work for a particular patient. Perhaps the relatives of patients need to be a bit more pro -active and keep a close eye on what is going on and ask for explanations about the treatment given.

Well, that's got that off my chest - time for breakfast...


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

> Sorry, the Spain is the be all and end all and the NHS is poor not only pees me off but is pie in the sky


 Altho I understand what you're saying and agree there is this "Spains healthcare is Brillirant" attitude is silly, I do think the NHS in the UK has deteriorated beyond belief. Its not the care or even the money that has spoilt it, but the obssessive need for statistics, protocols, paperwork etc., Once upon a time a good doctor could and would use his initiative and instinct to do his job with miraculous results, now its all down to tick box/flow chart diagnosis and treatment for accountability and in case of litigation!!!

Jo xxx


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

jojo said:


> Altho I understand what you're saying and agree there is this "Spains healthcare is Brillirant" attitude is silly, I do think the NHS in the UK has deteriorated beyond belief. Its not the care or even the money that has spoilt it, but the obssessive need for statistics, protocols, paperwork etc., Once upon a time a good doctor could and would use his initiative and instinct to do his job with miraculous results, now its all down to tick box/flow chart diagnosis and treatment for accountability and in case of litigation!!!
> 
> Jo xxx


flipping right
as someone still working and counting away the days untill i am not working in the NHS.. I can say that if you kept the bl6767y politicians away and let us do the job it would be much better. To much interference from non medics and not common sense. 
rant over

x


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## bob_bob (Jan 5, 2011)

jojo said:


> Altho I understand what you're saying and agree there is this "Spains healthcare is Brillirant" attitude is silly, I do think the NHS in the UK has deteriorated beyond belief. Its not the care or even the money that has spoilt it, but the obssessive need for statistics, protocols, paperwork etc., Once upon a time a good doctor could and would use his initiative and instinct to do his job with miraculous results, now its all down to tick box/flow chart diagnosis and treatment for accountability and in case of litigation!!!
> 
> Jo xxx


Are you practising now Jojo? As for paperwork and litigation yes, it happens, and rightly so, its raised the level of accountability, something sadly missing for a long time in the NHS where doctors were gods and nurses spoke in hushed tones in their presence.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

bob_bob said:


> Are you practising now Jojo? As for paperwork and litigation yes, it happens, and rightly so, its raised the level of accountability, something sadly missing for a long time in the NHS where doctors were gods and nurses spoke in hushed tones in their presence.


 No, when I came back from Spain, I was too far away from it. But before I went I saw first hand good GPs being stifled and bad ones being protected by the rules. I know what you're saying and in some cases it may help. I guess my experience is anecdotal and I have seen first hand the frustration of some amazing doctors not being able to make things happen and having to spend too much time on paperwork and trying to get things done. 

Yes, there has to be some accountability, but sometimes, and I've seen it first hand, "gut instinct" and an ability to understand the idiosyncrasies of the human body are what set some doctors apart

Jo xxx


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