# Unlawful arrest, possible consequences



## Phoenix24 (Feb 24, 2011)

Hello,

I've posted this on another expat forum as well, I just copied and pasted it as it'a a long story. I hope someone who has more experience with the guardia civil can give me some guidance.

I’m writing here due to a very confusing situation. I must first mention that I live in a very small town in Spain, with a parochial mentality and not much fondness of foreigners at the moment.
Last night, my boyfriend, who is a British citizen, was arrested in a pub, with no charges whatsoever. The guardia civil just went there, had a small chat with him and arrested him (he did not oppose at that moment). He was quite drunk yet swears he hadn’t got into any trouble at all and I suppose witnesses can verify that if I have to request that of them. He was handcuffed and taken to the police station, sat in a cell for a few hours, then was interviewed and released as there were no grounds to hold him in the first place. The only explanation he was given was that someone had phoned the police saying he would become violent. But he assures me he had not gotten into any altercations. He has however, a week or so ago, pissed of some bartender who was being unfriendly. But he never went near that person last night. I have no idea who could have made that phone call and how a person can be arrested just based on that, with no evidence at all that he was causing trouble (as he was not). Also, sometime durring his arrest, his right hand was injured, nothing serious, just some scratches and cuts (quite deep though). He said the police handled him with unnecessary force.

They agreed they had no reason to keep him there, that is like admitting they had made a mistake. He did become aggressive due to the absurdity of it all and shouted some abuse while leaving the police station. Not a smart thing to do, I know.
Anyway, early this morning two police officers came and asked for further proof of ID (he only had his drivers’ licence on him at the time). They were asking strange unrelated questions about our daughter, whether she goes to nursery or not. I don’t know what they are planning but according to him they were pissed of they had to release him and are doing their best to get him for something. They said we would receive some letters. Does that mean they are planning on taking legal action? Would that not be ridiculous considering they were wrong to arrest him in the first place? Maybe they are doing that because he gave them a great deal of verbal abuse when he found out he was being held for no reason.

I suppose I should seek proper legal advice, start contacting witnesses and so forth and have a strong case before they surprise us with something. We are broke though so I don’t know how to find an affordable lawyer. I would also love to find out who phoned them with completely false accusations, I don’t know wheteher or not the police would give us that information. Oh, I forgot to mention he doesn’t speak Spanish so whatever has to be done, I have to deal with it.

Thank you for your patience, first of all. Any advice on how to proceed from here would be greatly appreciated. Cheers.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

I think you two should sit tight, be on your best behaviour and simply keep your heads down. I'm not sure false evidence can be brought, but it if is and your boyfriend is arrest and charged, then you will be able to get an abogado to prove that its false, or you could get in touch with the British consulate and they may help

Like I say, in the meantime, just keep yourselves to yourselves and dont do ANYTHING that could get you into trouble. It seems to me that unlike the UK, the guardia tend not to be as politically correct.

Jo xxx


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## Phoenix24 (Feb 24, 2011)

Thank you very much for the advice.


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## djfwells (Sep 28, 2009)

Living in a small rural village, speaking poor Spanish and having a fondness for an odd pint here and there I can sympathise and can imagine how p155ed off he must be.
I think the bottom line is this - you either accept that it happened and get on with your lives; or make an issue out of it and start to look for another village to live in.
I was very nearly arrested and dragged from my car on suspicion of armed robbery just before Christmas ( I am English and have a shaved head, so I suppose I must have been asking for it ) - I only managed to squirm out of it because one of the Guardia pointing the gun at me recognised me from attending my daughters birthday the previous weekend. (and being inncocent, obviously)


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

There is some useful information here on his rights should this eventually lead to an arrest:
Legal procedures in criminal cases

You are entitled to free legal assistance to ensure that the proper procedures are followed (including the right to an interpreter), but not to defend you should it go to trial.

Hope it all sorts itself out!


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## Phoenix24 (Feb 24, 2011)

Well, about the shaved head, so does he, I suppose a man with fair skin, blue eyes and a shaved head is a peculiar sight in these small villages. 
Looks like things are going to court, they said we would receive some papers.
Sneaky *******s, they could have stated their intentions instead of saying ''you will receive some letters''. At least one knows how to prepare for that. 
I think the only permanent solution is moving to another country, where the legal system has some respect for people's rights. It's all a big blur to these people, they do whatever they want.

Alcalaina, thank you for the link.


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## djfwells (Sep 28, 2009)

Phoenix24 said:


> Well, about the shaved head, so does he, I suppose a man with fair skin, blue eyes and a shaved head is a peculiar sight in these small villages.
> Looks like things are going to court, they said we would receive some papers.
> Sneaky *******s, they could have stated their intentions instead of saying ''you will receive some letters''. At least one knows how to prepare for that.
> I think the only permanent solution is moving to another country, where the legal system has some respect for people's rights. It's all a big blur to these people, they do whatever they want.
> ...


I'm just looking forward to going out for a quiet pint tommorrow night now that Operation Captura has stepped up a notch. I'll give it an hour until the locals have me down as drugs baron in hiding or something. Honestly, if it wasn't for my fact that my daughter does to the local school I'm sure I would have been burned at the stake years ago.


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## Phoenix24 (Feb 24, 2011)

I wish you good luck  . 
What bothers me about this parochial mindset is that everyone must know everything about their neighbours, they all speak behind one's back and if you keep yourself to yourself they are very intrigued. If you want to fit in you must report what you are doing to whoever you meet. They all seem to know you by word of mouth anyway.


I had a look at the proper arrest procedures and none of them were carried out correctly. He was only held for a few hours and they kept saying he was not arrested (although handcuffed, brutalised, mug shot taken and held in a cell - that sounds like arrested to me!), probably because they knew they were not complying with the law. They never informed him of any rights, the British Consulate was never contacted (they never asked him about it), there was no mention of an interpreter, he was not even allowed to make a phone call. All I can hope for is that the strong Scottish accent and slightly drunken voice made some of the abuse he later gave them impossible to understand.


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## Caz.I (Mar 21, 2009)

Phoenix24 said:


> I wish you good luck  .
> What bothers me about this parochial mindset is that everyone must know everything about their neighbours, they all speak behind one's back and if you keep yourself to yourself they are very intrigued. If you want to fit in you must report what you are doing to whoever you meet. They all seem to know you by word of mouth anyway.
> 
> 
> I had a look at the proper arrest procedures and none of them were carried out correctly. He was only held for a few hours and they kept saying he was not arrested (although handcuffed, brutalised, mug shot taken and held in a cell - that sounds like arrested to me!), probably because they knew they were not complying with the law. They never informed him of any rights, the British Consulate was never contacted (they never asked him about it), there was no mention of an interpreter, he was not even allowed to make a phone call. All I can hope for is that the strong Scottish accent and slightly drunken voice made some of the abuse he later gave them impossible to understand.


In case you need it, here is a link for legal aid:
European Commission - European Judicial Network - Legal aid - Spain

It does take a long time to come through, though and a lot of paper chasing to get all the documents together. However, under the circumstances, it might be advisable to apply for it anyway.

But, meanwhile, you could ring around some lawyers get some quotes for cost of a consultation, and make some initial enquiries as to what to do. I dont know where you are but down here, an initial consultation costs about 50 euros, depending on the lawyer. (But 50 euros will be worth it, for peace of mind.) The consultation should at least give you some advice on what steps to take next, and if it comes to it, would officially show that you have consulted a lawyer at the earliest opportunity. This might count for something in the future, if there is a trial.

I seriously doubt if the police would give you any information about who reported him to the police, better to forget about that one and concentrate on what you need to do now to protect yourself and your boyfriend in the future.

TBH I dont think the British Consulate will help if you are both resident here, although it might be wise to contact them anyway, just so it is officially recorded there too. Yes, its good advice to keep your head down and dont say or do anything that might give them cause to take any further action. You have to make sure they havent got any reason to make more accusations.

Good luck!


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## Phoenix24 (Feb 24, 2011)

Thanks very much for that.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

*Trouble with the Guardia Civil, Civil Guard*



Phoenix24 said:


> Hello,
> 
> I've posted this on another expat forum as well, I just copied and pasted it as it'a a long story. I hope someone who has more experience with the guardia civil can give me some guidance.
> 
> ...


I would certainly keep a low profile especially where drink and bad language are concerned.

And, as everyone else is skirting around the subject...

It has to be said that you yourself say 


> He was quite drunk





> He has however, a week or so ago, pissed of some bartender





> He did become aggressive





> shouted some abuse while leaving the police station





> he doesn’t speak Spanish


It's probably not the best way to endear yourself to the local population. Whilst I'm NOT saying this is an excuse to arrest someone for no reason, he might want to ask himself if he really wants to live in this place...


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## Phoenix24 (Feb 24, 2011)

Well, not really, we didn't plan on settling here.

I agree it was not smart at all to behave like that; however he argues it only happened after he was arrested for no good reason. It doesn't make it any better, of course. There were witnesses so I hope that helps if it does go to trial. I wasn't actually there so I'm just repeating what he said.
About the bartender he pissed off, it makes no sense for someone to wait a week or two to phone the police and do so precisely when that person is doing nothing wrong. He wasn't even in that pub when it happened, he never went back there again. Whoever phoned was very sneaky about it. What is really shocking is that they need no further evidence to lift someone but a phone call, which needn't necessarily be genuine. 
I suppose whoever phoned knew he was drunk and even though he was not being anti-social, they relied on the assumption that he'd resist arrest and get in trouble anyway. Devious as f***.


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## Spanky McSpank (Aug 27, 2009)

You shouldn't mess with the Guardia Civil. You should not start shouting at them, they are not like British Police. They can make your life very complicated. I sympathise a little but probably best not to piss off the local population or get drunk. Why do Brits always get drunk? In Spain, being drunk is not looked upon well.


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## susanspain (Sep 5, 2008)

Sorry to be negative jojo, but the British Consulate IMO are S***te. I asked them for advice on local legal proceedures (which it says is one of the things they CAN do), but they refused to help. (I was not named as the victim in a serious RTA and was having trouble getting my case heard even tho they did the rest of the report putting the other party solely to blame, plus it was a criminal matter as the other party fled the scene). Likewise, the consulates 'Honaray Legal Advisor' runs their own legal firm, whom I had been to for advice (independently and paid), who also then refused to help further when I wanted them to take on the case. 

Phoenix - re your personal situation. How horrid and hateful that someone is Sxxxxxt stirring. Sounds like you need to find out who is doing this, find out why (and sort the problem one way or another), or yes, sadly, move on. 
I live near the coast but am still in a rural area where eveyone knows everyone. (And they regulary 'denounce' each other for things like border disputes etc). 

It is sad that the police will take the word of someone else who likely has no grounds to be causing trouble. 
Sounds like the police are bored and looking for something to do?

Good luck...


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Phoenix24 said:


> Well, not really, we didn't plan on settling here.
> 
> I agree it was not smart at all to behave like that; however he argues it only happened after he was arrested for no good reason. It doesn't make it any better, of course. There were witnesses so I hope that helps if it does go to trial. I wasn't actually there so I'm just repeating what he said.
> About the bartender he pissed off, it makes no sense for someone to wait a week or two to phone the police and do so precisely when that person is doing nothing wrong. He wasn't even in that pub when it happened, he never went back there again. Whoever phoned was very sneaky about it. What is really shocking is that they need no further evidence to lift someone but a phone call, which needn't necessarily be genuine.
> I suppose whoever phoned knew he was drunk and even though he was not being anti-social, they relied on the assumption that he'd resist arrest and get in trouble anyway. Devious as f***.


Sorry if my previous post was a little harsh. I don't mean to be unsympathetic, but it does look like you've got a bit of a "situation" here. At the risk of overstepping the mark, but on the other hand you did ask for advice on a public forum...
Perhaps this is a time for change??? What ties you to living where you are now? Could you leave? You really don't sound very happy, but perhaps that's just a wrong interpretation on my part.
Could your boyfriend's behaviour change? Is he going to continue "pissing people off", including the Guardia Civil?
And, dare I ask,
why are you on here asking about the situation, and not him?
Sorry if it's too personal.
Hope you get things sorted out.

PS About going to trial. I don't know if it depends on the type of case/ court that you go to, but in general, cases take *years* to go to trial


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## nigele2 (Dec 25, 2009)

One cannot of course comment on individual cases without all the facts. I should also say that no one has less faith in the Guardia or any other Spanish institution than me :boxing:. However I feel that there needs to be a lot of respect shown to a hosting country and its people by foreigners. 

Pheonix24 by your own admission you present a one sided account of what happened based on a third party who was drunk and couldn’t understand or communicate in any detailed way with those around him. That worries me.

I am no lawyer/policeman but I believe had this happened in the UK your boyfriend would have broken the law. Possibly “being drunk on license premises **” and “unsocial behaviour”. Why is it OK to break UK laws when in foreign countries? By his own admission your boyfriend is guilty of the first. 

Based on this I would welcome the British Authorities showing no interest at this stage. 

I would suggest you and your boyfriend might like to write an apology to the guardia, the bar and its clients. Even if you have to do it with gritted teeth it might serve you well.

** “drunk on license premises” I find rather amusing. A friend of mine was charged with this a few years back. He was not drunk as he had arrived to pick me up. He had been working late so ordered a ham roll. He complained about the pub using yesterday’s ham simply replacing the bread rolls (I believe there is a term for this disgusting practice in the trade ). He was a 16 stone rugby player. He didn’t use any violence, he wasn’t aggressive, he simply refused to leave – even when the pub closed – quite bizarre. Anyway to cut a long story short he went to a lawyer who suggested he defend himself as at the time the penalty for “drunk on license premises” was a maximum £10 fine. The defence was “Young and Gentle, 1915”. When Young was charged he offered that “He had entered the licensed premises to kill Gentle for sleeping with his wife and as he had no intention of using the licensed premises to drink they should not be considered licensed premises for the purposes of his case”. He won and got off . So did my friend 
.
Forgive me Young and Gentle if I have switched you around – no offense intended.


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## MaidenScotland (Jun 6, 2009)

Maybe they are fed up with his attitude and thought... a couple of hours in a cell might give him a fright and a good shake...and if so perhaps he should heed the warning, sorry but reading y our post your boyfriends seems to have issues.


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## EarthMule (Feb 25, 2011)

Phoenix24 said:


> Well, about the shaved head, so does he, I suppose a man with fair skin, blue eyes and a shaved head is a peculiar sight in these small villages.
> Looks like things are going to court, they said we would receive some papers.
> Sneaky *******s, they could have stated their intentions instead of saying ''you will receive some letters''. At least one knows how to prepare for that.
> I think the only permanent solution is moving to another country, where the legal system has some respect for people's rights. It's all a big blur to these people, they do whatever they want.
> ...


Come on, man, don't give up so easily, spain is a great country to leave behind... For a difference, try one of the FSU countries (former Soviet Union) then you will know what a 'police abuse' mean...


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## MaidenScotland (Jun 6, 2009)

EarthMule said:


> Come on, man, don't give up so easily, spain is a great country to leave behind... For a difference, try one of the FSU countries (former Soviet Union) then you will know what a 'police abuse' mean...




or the middle east

my SIL is around 18st.. has a shaven head and tats, wears shorts most of the year and a cut off teeshirt goes to the pub every Sunday and has no hassle...and he lives in a Spanish village.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Its all to do with attitude and generalisations. Sadly the overall look of the British, bald head, tatts, football shirt, binge drinking and aggressive behaviour types are not popular anywhere and the spanish police are not as PC as they are in the UK. If your boyfriend has upset the locals and their guardia then he needs to make amends, apologise and stop getting drunk and aggressive

Jo xx


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## EarthMule (Feb 25, 2011)

jojo said:


> Its all to do with attitude and generalisations. Sadly the overall look of the British, bald head, tatts, football shirt, binge drinking and aggressive behaviour types are not popular anywhere and the spanish police are not as PC as they are in the UK. If your boyfriend has upset the locals and their guardia then he needs to make amends, apologise and stop getting drunk and aggressive
> 
> Jo xx


Exactly. Respect their way of life and they will respect yours, that's the golden rule.


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## Phoenix24 (Feb 24, 2011)

Spanky McSpank said:


> You shouldn't mess with the Guardia Civil. You should not start shouting at them, they are not like British Police. They can make your life very complicated. I sympathise a little but probably best not to piss off the local population or get drunk. Why do Brits always get drunk? In Spain, being drunk is not looked upon well.


You're right. I wouldn't mess with police anywhere, but these people just seem bent on sanctioning any type of affront, as if you're supposed to bow down or something. They want to seriously mess you up for some insults. I think that shows a lack of dignity on their part not just as police but as individuals.


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

Phoenix24 said:


> You're right. I wouldn't mess with police anywhere, but these people just seem bent on sanctioning any type of affront, as if you're supposed to bow down or something. They want to seriously mess you up for some insults. I think that shows a lack of dignity on their part not just as police but as individuals.


You either must have some bad police down there, or the person in question made a risky comment. I haven't experienced anything but civility anywhere from police in Spain. You're expected to show respect. I know that's difficult for some, but that's the way it is. You mess with them .... they mess with you, and they always win


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## Phoenix24 (Feb 24, 2011)

susanspain said:


> Sorry to be negative jojo, but the British Consulate
> It is sad that the police will take the word of someone else who likely has no grounds to be causing trouble.
> Sounds like the police are bored and looking for something to do?
> Good luck...


Cheers.
Well, I wouldn't put my utmost trust in any authority at all, whether British or Spanish or from anywhere else. We delude ourselves about living in a free world that plays by the rules.
I think they are quite bored. There is the odd robbery, assault or murder but these cases are really rare. They're just kids with guns anyway, they are very young and act like they've watched too many Hollywood films.


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## Phoenix24 (Feb 24, 2011)

Stravinsky said:


> You either must have some bad police down there, or the person in question made a risky comment. I haven't experienced anything but civility anywhere from police in Spain. You're expected to show respect. I know that's difficult for some, but that's the way it is. You mess with them .... they mess with you, and they always win


Well... as I explained above... they messed with an innocent person and never followed the right arrest procedures either. I don't think anyone fancies being handcuffed, thrown in the back of a police car and assaulted for no reason whatsoever. In many places, people would sue for that.


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

Phoenix24 said:


> Cheers.
> Well, I wouldn't put my utmost trust in any authority at all, whether British or Spanish or from anywhere else. We delude ourselves about living in a free world that plays by the rules.
> I think they are quite bored. There is the odd robbery, assault or murder but these cases are really rare. They're just kids with guns anyway, they are very young and act like they've watched too many Hollywood films.


Sorry .... you're saying that you think that the Spanish Police are bored with nothing to do with the odd robbery and assault? And they are rare cases???


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

Phoenix24 said:


> I don't think anyone fancies being handcuffed, thrown in the back of a police car and assaulted for no reason whatsoever. In many places, people would sue for that.


It happens every weekend on the streets of Britain .... and the reason? For being drunk!


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## Phoenix24 (Feb 24, 2011)

Pesky Wesky said:


> .....


No worries, you weren't overstepping. I just like being prepared for anything and that is why I asked for advice; I thought I might find people with a similar experience.
We do want to leave but the financial situation is far from good at the moment. 
We ended up in Spain due to some unpleasant circumstances which were impossible to control.
I suppose keeping a low profile will have to do.
Thanks for your advice.


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## Phoenix24 (Feb 24, 2011)

Stravinsky said:


> Sorry .... you're saying that you think that the Spanish Police are bored with nothing to do with the odd robbery and assault? And they are rare cases???


In a small village of little over 1000 people, stuff like that rarely happens.


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## Phoenix24 (Feb 24, 2011)

Stravinsky said:


> It happens every weekend on the streets of Britain .... and the reason? For being drunk!


I suppose.
But still, you need to do something, like cause trouble or fall asleep on the street. Police officers don't just go arresting people sitting at a table in a pub, doing what is meant to be done in there (drinking).
I do detect your attitude however so I will politely end this conversation. Thank you.


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## Phoenix24 (Feb 24, 2011)

nigele2 said:


> ....


Well, you have completely missunderstood the situation. 
But that is not unusual. People usually do that on forums.
As for considering being dunk in a pub an offence, everyone there is drunk to some extent. If the police have a problem with that they should simply ban pubs. 
Thank you for your input anyway.


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## Phoenix24 (Feb 24, 2011)

jojo said:


> Its all to do with attitude and generalisations. Sadly the overall look of the British, bald head, tatts, football shirt, binge drinking and aggressive behaviour types are not popular anywhere and the spanish police are not as PC as they are in the UK. If your boyfriend has upset the locals and their guardia then he needs to make amends, apologise and stop getting drunk and aggressive
> 
> Jo xx


I believe I explained he was merely doing what every other Spanish citizen was doing in that pub and nothing else. The aggressivenes was a result of the Guardia's unjustified behaviour. As for drinking, the village is riddled with pubs, people often spend all night there and shout and sing in the street at any hour. 

Anyhow...than you all for your time and advice. 

I'm not sure how it works on this forum for threads to be closed, on others one simply requests that. If so, could you please close this thread. Thank you again.


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## Beachcomber (May 10, 2009)

In my experience most people who are arrested by the police have done nothing wrong and every person in prison is innocent and is only there as a result of a miscarriage of justice!


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