# German Citizenship by Discretion



## 1733258

Hi all

I'm working with an immigration attorney to see if I'm eligible for German Citizenship by discretion (Section 14 of German immigration law). Apparently there are no hard and fast rules around this as the German government doesn't have a specific checklist; rather totally up to their discretion.

Wanted to see if anybody here on this forum has done this, or knows anyone who's done this? I feel like chances are EXTREMELY slim (and fine if they are) but in any case wanted to check the hive here.

Thanks!


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## ALKB

mfh5001 said:


> Hi all
> 
> I'm working with an immigration attorney to see if I'm eligible for German Citizenship by discretion (Section 14 of German immigration law). Apparently there are no hard and fast rules around this as the German government doesn't have a specific checklist; rather totally up to their discretion.
> 
> Wanted to see if anybody here on this forum has done this, or knows anyone who's done this? I feel like chances are EXTREMELY slim (and fine if they are) but in any case wanted to check the hive here.
> 
> Thanks!


What's your connection to Germany?

German spouse? German mother but born before 1965?

Have you ever lived in Germany?


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## 1733258

ALKB said:


> mfh5001 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hi all
> 
> I'm working with an immigration attorney to see if I'm eligible for German Citizenship by discretion (Section 14 of German immigration law). Apparently there are no hard and fast rules around this as the German government doesn't have a specific checklist; rather totally up to their discretion.
> 
> Wanted to see if anybody here on this forum has done this, or knows anyone who's done this? I feel like chances are EXTREMELY slim (and fine if they are) but in any case wanted to check the hive here.
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> 
> 
> What's your connection to Germany?
> 
> German spouse? German mother but born before 1965?
> 
> Have you ever lived in Germany?
Click to expand...


Big connection to Germany. Lived there twice, have a degree in German language & literature, have been back to Germany every year since 2009.

Took further German language classes and have connections in Germany through paid work and volunteer work I did. 

Father would have been German had the laws not been restrictive against the mother. 

My attorney and I feel I have a strong case but there isn’t much precedent for this so a huge risk. 

Just want to see if anyone has any success or even any info on this from personal experiences.


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## Bevdeforges

I'm not at all familiar with that approach - but do check into the matter of having to renounce your prior nationality (and whether you are ready and willing to do so). As I understand it, they won't ask you to renounce until they've processed your case far enough along to "know" that you'll be successful. 

But just give a bit of thought to whether or not you're willing to fork out the $2350 to renounce, as that is likely to be a requirement.


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## 1733258

Bevdeforges said:


> I'm not at all familiar with that approach - but do check into the matter of having to renounce your prior nationality (and whether you are ready and willing to do so). As I understand it, they won't ask you to renounce until they've processed your case far enough along to "know" that you'll be successful.
> 
> But just give a bit of thought to whether or not you're willing to fork out the $2350 to renounce, as that is likely to be a requirement.


Good call. They’ve actually indicated that US citizens are exempt from this if you can prove it’s a hardship (ie $2350 is a bit of a financial hardship I reckon for many). But it is a risk for sure. Wouldn’t worry about that until I absolutely have to.


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## Bevdeforges

mfh5001 said:


> Good call. They’ve actually indicated that US citizens are exempt from this if you can prove it’s a hardship (ie $2350 is a bit of a financial hardship I reckon for many). But it is a risk for sure. Wouldn’t worry about that until I absolutely have to.


Proving the "hardship" aspect is insanely difficult. Much more than just "I can't afford it on my salary." (Friend of mine renounced 2 years ago in Germany and yes she looked into trying to get the fee waived.)


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## 1733258

Bevdeforges said:


> mfh5001 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Good call. They’ve actually indicated that US citizens are exempt from this if you can prove it’s a hardship (ie $2350 is a bit of a financial hardship I reckon for many). But it is a risk for sure. Wouldn’t worry about that until I absolutely have to.
> 
> 
> 
> Proving the "hardship" aspect is insanely difficult. Much more than just "I can't afford it on my salary." (Friend of mine renounced 2 years ago in Germany and yes she looked into trying to get the fee waived.)
Click to expand...

Correct me if I’m wrong - but I’ve seen a lot of reports of Americans (specifically) getting a waiver, maybe not due to cost but due to other reasons (ie the process is super hard to revoke US citizenship). I was actually advised from my attorney that it was somewhat easy for Americans (specifically) to get the waiver versus other countries.


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## Bevdeforges

mfh5001 said:


> Correct me if I’m wrong - but I’ve seen a lot of reports of Americans (specifically) getting a waiver, maybe not due to cost but due to other reasons (ie the process is super hard to revoke US citizenship). I was actually advised from my attorney that it was somewhat easy for Americans (specifically) to get the waiver versus other countries.


Oh, you're talking about a waiver from having to renounce in order to take German nationality. Not a waiver from the $2350 fee the US charges to let you renounce.

Don't know about that side of it, though everything I've heard says that there are some specific requirements to being allowed to keep both nationalities - strong ties to Germany being the main ones.


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## ALKB

mfh5001 said:


> Big connection to Germany. Lived there twice, have a degree in German language & literature, have been back to Germany every year since 2009.
> 
> Took further German language classes and have connections in Germany through paid work and volunteer work I did.
> 
> Father would have been German had the laws not been restrictive against the mother.
> 
> My attorney and I feel I have a strong case but there isn’t much precedent for this so a huge risk.
> 
> Just want to see if anyone has any success or even any info on this from personal experiences.


Is your father alive?


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## 1733258

ALKB said:


> mfh5001 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Big connection to Germany. Lived there twice, have a degree in German language & literature, have been back to Germany every year since 2009.
> 
> Took further German language classes and have connections in Germany through paid work and volunteer work I did.
> 
> Father would have been German had the laws not been restrictive against the mother.
> 
> My attorney and I feel I have a strong case but there isn’t much precedent for this so a huge risk.
> 
> Just want to see if anyone has any success or even any info on this from personal experiences.
> 
> 
> 
> Is your father alive?
Click to expand...

Unfortunately he’s not, but I have a copy of his birth certificate


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## 1733258

Bevdeforges said:


> mfh5001 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Correct me if I’m wrong - but I’ve seen a lot of reports of Americans (specifically) getting a waiver, maybe not due to cost but due to other reasons (ie the process is super hard to revoke US citizenship). I was actually advised from my attorney that it was somewhat easy for Americans (specifically) to get the waiver versus other countries.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, you're talking about a waiver from having to renounce in order to take German nationality. Not a waiver from the $2350 fee the US charges to let you renounce.
> 
> Don't know about that side of it, though everything I've heard says that there are some specific requirements to being allowed to keep both nationalities - strong ties to Germany being the main ones.
Click to expand...

Correct. I’m not looking to renounce my US one and understand there’s some sort of appeal I can make to indicate that. I think Germany is getting slightly more lax with those rules (from what I’m seeing online) but could be wrong.


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## ALKB

mfh5001 said:


> Unfortunately he’s not, but I have a copy of his birth certificate


I am sorry to hear this.

I think you do have a case, especially since you have lived in Germany and speak the language.

I am afraid nobody can tell you your chances as the application is completely discretionary and rules have become stricter in the last few years, even for regular in-country applications.


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## 1733258

ALKB said:


> mfh5001 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Unfortunately he’s not, but I have a copy of his birth certificate
> 
> 
> 
> I am sorry to hear this.
> 
> I think you do have a case, especially since you have lived in Germany and speak the language.
> 
> I am afraid nobody can tell you your chances as the application is completely discretionary and rules have become stricter in the last few years, even for regular in-country applications.
Click to expand...

Thanks - yep my attorney thinks I may have one too but even she said the same thing - the rules are super unclear so will be a risk.

Hoping my involvement with Germany over the last 20 years will help my case!


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