# Can my child walk home alone?



## hannahibiza (Jan 17, 2008)

Hello,

I am British and have a British child who was born in Ibiza. She is now six and a half and very independent. I have always given her a degree of freedom and responsibility and have increased this gradually over time with plenty of safety advice. 

Her school is just up the road from my shop and home (we live under the shop). There is one small road to cross and she arrives at this road at the pedestrian crossing. She knows how to cross a road safely and right now the roads are very quiet. After the road is a newly made pathway with plenty of visibility. This leads onto a very nice narrow country lane which almost never has a car on it, which leads directly onto the path into the school. The school gate is at this meeting point. The onlt place she is out of sight is on the country lane, which is about 150 meters long and flanked by lovely fields. 

The area is countryside and the tiny village is very quiet and safe. Everyone knows everyone and I feel if a child cannot walk such a short distance alone here then they cannot do it anywhere. It is absolutely ludicrous that they feel so strongly about such a short distance. If I shouted loudly enough from the road she would probably be able to hear me from the school gate!

The school has told me she is not allowed to walk home alone and said we must all live in fear. I have tried to appeal to them and explain that this third of a kilometer walk is very good for her character and sense of independence and future confidence. They have told me that even the older child who lives in the house visible from the school must be brought to the gate by the parent. I pointed out how crazy that was but the secretary seemed totally conditioned into the fear mentality. 

There are risks but I believe children need to be exposed to measured risks in order for them to learn how to be brave adults. I walked to school, crossing three roads, from the age of six and from the age of seven I was riding my bike out to the countryside for hours at a time. I credit this early freedom and responsibility for my level of independence as an adult. 

The school has repeatedly held my daughter back and forced her to sit in a chair while they wait for me to walk in. Most of the time I wait for her at the road and watch her run down the hill towards me but when she doesn't arrive I know it's because they've held her back. On two occassions a teacher has walked her to my shop a different route, meaning I have run around in circles wondering where she is. Everything is fine until they meddle with our routine. 

Today they held her back and when I arrived there were five teachers surrounding her and telling me I had to collect her from the inner gate...not even the outer gate where everyone else collects their kids! I asked if it was the law and they said yes. I asked to be shown the law and they told me I had to find it out myself. I took my daughter by the hand and walked out. 

I feel I am being harassed by people who believe kids should be wrapped up in cotton wool to become like them when that mentality is completely contrary to how I think. When I told them that in England the authorities had realised this approach was detrimental to children and that the government even runs a 'walk to school' campaigne, one of them shouted, 'You live in Spain!'. 

Please can someone tell me if it is the law that they can hold her back or if it is illegal for them to do so. 

Thanks,

Hannah.

p.s. I am interested in hearing about what people think of my decision. I just need to know if I am legally allowed to demand my daughter be allowed to leave the school and 2pm.


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

hannahibiza said:


> Hello,
> 
> I am British and have a British child who was born in Ibiza. She is now six and a half and very independent. I have always given her a degree of freedom and responsibility and have increased this gradually over time with plenty of safety advice.
> 
> ...


Personally, I think that's too young to be walking home alone. But then I don't truly know where you live or how far away the school is so it's very hard to comment.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

hannahibiza said:


> Hello,
> 
> I am British and have a British child who was born in Ibiza. She is now six and a half and very independent. I have always given her a degree of freedom and responsibility and have increased this gradually over time with plenty of safety advice.
> 
> ...


I have no idea if it's the law - if it _is_ then our policía local ignore it - lots of kids that age walk a short (& some not so short) distance between home & school every day - the policía are on duty at the crossing before & after school


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

I've been googling

Vuelta al cole ms segura - CEA

& here are some laws regarding children - I'll look more when I have time


Ley Orgánica 1/1996, de 15 de enero, de Protección Jurídica del Menor, de modificación parcial del Código Civil y de la Ley de Enjuiciamiento Civil.


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## Trubrit (Nov 24, 2010)

It is not the safety on the roads I am concerned about it is the fact that such a young girl can easily be dragged into a car. It happens !!!


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## MaidenScotland (Jun 6, 2009)

Trubrit said:


> It is not the safety on the roads I am concerned about it is the fact that such a young girl can easily be dragged into a car. It happens !!!




Of course it happens but what are the chances?
People get killed in car crashes.. but what are the chances and does it stop you going in a car.


I walked 2 miles to school from the age of 5.. my mother took me the first day and then it was on with my coat and out the door the same as every other child in my class. I could have been dragged in a car but wasn't.. the walk to school done me more good than being kept on a leash because something might happen


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## Trubrit (Nov 24, 2010)

yes, but it's a bit like saying "my grandad smoked 80 **** a day and he lived till he was 80, he was lucky. I would not chance my childs well being to luck i'm afraid


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## siobhanwf (Mar 20, 2009)

We as parents are meant to teach our children life skills. A three hundred meter walk is not a great distance from the school. If we wrap our children up in cotton wool to prevent what MIGHT happen isn't doing the job we are meant to do


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## Trubrit (Nov 24, 2010)

siobhanwf said:


> We as parents are meant to teach our children life skills. A three hundred meter walk is not a great distance from the school. If we wrap our children up in cotton wool to prevent what MIGHT happen isn't doing the job we are meant to do


Madeleine McCann was just 300 metres from her parents and locked in an apartment, as I said I would not let my young child walk 300 metres alone. It,s just my opinion.


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## hannahibiza (Jan 17, 2008)

Trubrit said:


> yes, but it's a bit like saying "my grandad smoked 80 **** a day and he lived till he was 80, he was lucky. I would not chance my childs well being to luck i'm afraid


Would you have taken the chance thirty years ago?


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## Trubrit (Nov 24, 2010)

Yes I would have, but it's a whole different ball game now. It will always be a matter of choice as you can see with previous comments, so just do as you see fit.


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## siobhanwf (Mar 20, 2009)

Trubrit said:


> Madeleine McCann was just 300 metres from her parents and locked in an apartment, as I said I would not let my young child walk 300 metres alone. It,s just my opinion.


The patio door to the mccanns appartment had been left open accordingly to all reports. And admitted to by the mccanns. 
300metes down a main street In broad daylight from the school with lots of other children and people about is a slightly different scenario


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## hannahibiza (Jan 17, 2008)

Trubrit said:


> Yes I would have, but it's a whole different ball game now. It will always be a matter of choice as you can see with previous comments, so just do as you see fit.


You are basing your beliefs on rumour and scare mongering. There are in fact no more child abductions now than there were thirty years ago. That is a fact. 

If your theory is correct, that all risks must be removed, does that also mean your kids stay indoors at all times apart from their weekly overly-supervised trip to the overly-boring playground?


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

:focus:

this isn't a discussion about whether or not we agree with a child of that age walking 300m home alone - heck, I see kids younger than that playing on the beach further away from their parents than that!!

it's about whether or not there is a legal requirement for hannahibiza to collect her child from school, and if the school can legally insist that she does


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## MaidenScotland (Jun 6, 2009)

Somthing to think about.

Years ago I watched a documentary on Robert Black ..http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Black_(serial_killer).

I always remember the police being interviewed about Caroline Hogg who had been taken from Portobello during the fair holiday. The police asked for people who had taken photographs at the fair to send them in the hope that they might see someone who was on their books.. they saw 30 convicted sexual molesters in the photographs and no sign of Rober Black and how many more where there that were not known to the police.. this was in 1983. 

Child abusers have always been around.. and always will be.


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## jimenato (Nov 21, 2009)

hannahibiza said:


> You are basing your beliefs on rumour and scare mongering. There are in fact no more child abductions now than there were thirty years ago. That is a fact.
> 
> If your theory is correct, that all risks must be removed, does that also mean your kids stay indoors at all times apart from their weekly overly-supervised trip to the overly-boring playground?


Correct Hannah and well said. It is called 'The Fallacy of the Rose Tinted Spectacles'.

It's akin to thinking the roads were safer back then, everybody was healthier because no-one ate processed foods, and the summers were better. None of which are borne out by the facts.


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## hannahibiza (Jan 17, 2008)

MaidenScotland said:


> Somthing to think about.
> 
> Years ago I watched a documentary on Robert Black ..
> 
> ...


You either act as a hellicopter parent hovering over them until they become teenagers and definitely do them (mental) damage or you train them on how to deal with roads, strangers, abduction attempts, etc. If you choose the former you are doing it to make YOUR life easier because you do not want to deal with the worry. Besides, it is very important children are sometimes afraid or injured having been out playing freely because then they learn about threats, risks and consequences. My daughter has always had bruised legs from top to bottom from falls and bangs and I think that's great.

I feel so strongly about this as I am sure my early freedom is what helped me to become very streetwise from a very early age, helped me live in big and often scary cities and ultimately helped me become a very independent and entrepreneurially successful person. If this school does not allow me to allow my child to develop naturally then I have chosen her childhood home badly. 

What makes it so hypcritical is that this same primary/junior school encourages the sexualisation of the pupils. Every stage performance during the school fiesta is sexualised. The tunes are always provocative, the costumes are always sexy and the moves and sometimes downright embarassing. The girls are dressed in a sexualised way from a young age and they look like little Lolitas in their mini-skirts, hair clips and often make-up. My daughter has short cropped hair and has a wardrobe of second hand proper kids' clothes. She's a real tomboy and she grew up playing on the play ground down from our shop. All the other kids were supervised by their parents and I've had so many dirty looks and sometimes comments suggesting I am a bad parent because I give her freedom. 

I started her off at three with an eletronic tag and told her how far she could go. She never ventured any further...the tag never went off! Bit by bit I've extrended her patch and kept explaining that her freedom was dependent on her being responsible with it. She's never let me down. She is probably the most streetwise kid in the whole of the school but I get criticised! 

It is a matter of opinion but it is a fact that if you do not open the door and allow them to play freely they will not get the psychological advantages of kids who are allowed to be free. 

If someone could advise me on whether the school has the legal right to effectively restrain my daughter then I would be grateful. I've spoken to the local police and they haven't a clue. Doesn't sound like it could possibly be legal to me. I'll go to the town hall in the morning. 

This is a good read....Google....'Why I let my nine year old ride the subway alone' as I can't post URLs yet.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

hannahibiza said:


> You either act as a hellicopter parent hovering over them until they become teenagers and definitely do them (mental) damage or you train them on how to deal with roads, strangers, abduction attempts, etc. If you choose the former you are doing it to make YOUR life easier because you do not want to deal with the worry. Besides, it is very important children are sometimes afraid or injured having been out playing freely because then they learn about threats, risks and consequences.
> 
> I feel so strongly about this as I am sure my early freedom is what helped me to become very streetwise from a very early age, helped me live in big and often scary cities and ultimately helped me become a very independent and entrepreneurially successful person. If this school does not allow me to allow my child to develop naturally then I have chosen her childhood home badly.
> 
> ...


the link I gave you is all I have been able to find regarding the law & children - & at a glance I can't find anything about children being left alone, walking home etc., although I dare say the info is out there somewhere

maybe you should think about approaching an abogado, since you feel so strongly about it - or at the very least get AMPA involved - part of the remit of AMPA is to act as a go-between between school & parents in the case of disputes


certainly AMPA would have access to the documention on relevant law too, if indeed it exists


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## bob_bob (Jan 5, 2011)

hannahibiza said:


> You are basing your beliefs on rumour and scare mongering. There are in fact no more child abductions now than there were thirty years ago. That is a fact.
> 
> If your theory is correct, that all risks must be removed, does that also mean your kids stay indoors at all times apart from their weekly overly-supervised trip to the overly-boring playground?


In fact no worse now than 60 years ago. One sad effect of wrapping our children in cotton wool is that they no longer play with chums and mates as 'we' did forty or fifty years ago. I did read somewhere that modern children normally don't go much more than fifty metres from home to play...how sad is that. When I was young, certainly from about eight mates and I would go on the bus to a park to play and at fourteen was youth hosteling with chums in North Wales.

Regarding the School, law or no if its policy that all children need to be accompanied there is not much you can do about it really.


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## hannahibiza (Jan 17, 2008)

xabiachica said:


> the link I gave you is all I have been able to find regarding the law & children - & at a glance I can't find anything about children being left alone, walking home etc., although I dare say the info is out there somewhere
> 
> maybe you should think about approaching an abogado, since you feel so strongly about it - or at the very least get AMPA involved - part of the remit of AMPA is to act as a go-between between school & parents in the case of disputes
> 
> ...


Thanks for your help. What is AMPA?


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## hannahibiza (Jan 17, 2008)

bob_bob said:


> In fact no worse now than 60 years ago. One sad effect of wrapping our children in cotton wool is that they no longer play with chums and mates as 'we' did forty or fifty years ago. I did read somewhere that modern children normally don't go much more than fifty metres from home to play...how sad is that. When I was young, certainly from about eight mates and I would go on the bus to a park to play and at fourteen was youth hosteling with chums in North Wales.
> 
> Regarding the School, law or no if its policy that all children need to be accompanied there is not much you can do about it really.


So you think the school has the power to determine these things just by writing them into their policy? They have told me it's the school's policy that all kids (even the older junior kids aged about eleven) must be collected from the school gate. That is why the school is completely chocker block with big black four wheel drive cars at drop off and pick up time. It's such a shame to hide children away from their community. 

I wonder if I could write a letter stating what my wishes are and if they do not allow that to happen (i.e. allow my child to meet me at the road) then they will have to walk with her to the road? Now that would be funny! I wonder how many walks it would take with her for them to admit they're being bloody stupid.


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## siobhanwf (Mar 20, 2009)

What about putting the ball in the schools court and ask them to produce a document where this is all explained.

Good luck at the town hall.


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## MaidenScotland (Jun 6, 2009)

hannahibiza said:


> So you think the school has the power to determine these things just by writing them into their policy? They have told me it's the school's policy that all kids (even the older junior kids aged about eleven) must be collected from the school gate. That is why the school is completely chocker block with big black four wheel drive cars at drop off and pick up time. It's such a shame to hide children away from their community.
> 
> I wonder if I could write a letter stating what my wishes are and if they do not allow that to happen (i.e. allow my child to meet me at the road) then they will have to walk with her to the road? Now that would be funny! I wonder how many walks it would take with her for them to admit they're being bloody stupid.




What happens to your child if she goes to school alone? Do they deny her access?


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## hannahibiza (Jan 17, 2008)

siobhanwf said:


> What about putting the ball in the schools court and ask them to produce a document where this is all explained?
> Perhaps it is a school rule rather than a state one.
> Good luck at the town hall.


I did this afternoon when they forced her to sit on a chair rather than leave. I was faced with four or five teachers are telling me off. I said, 'is this rule legal?' to which one said, 'Yes'. I asked her to show me the law and she told me I had to find it out myself! can you believe it? If it's school policy surely they would by now have shown me something in writing. If it's Spanish Law surely they would have told me the exact law. That would have been the easiest and quickest way to get what they wanted. I bet it's neither school nor national law.


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## hannahibiza (Jan 17, 2008)

MaidenScotland said:


> What happens to your child if she goes to school alone? Do they deny her access?


Ha ha! No....no problems in the morning it seems


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## siobhanwf (Mar 20, 2009)

hannahibiza said:


> Ha ha! No....no problems in the morning it seems



Nice one


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## MaidenScotland (Jun 6, 2009)

hannahibiza said:


> Ha ha! No....no problems in the morning it seems




They will probably say but once she is in our care we cannot let her leave without an adult being responsible for her.


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## Solwriter (Jan 10, 2012)

Hmmmm, I remember getting very irate with one of my daughter's head teachers when she banned my daughter from school dinners because she ate too slowly.
I made quite an issue about the whole thing and my daughter was readmitted to the 'pleasures' of school dinners. 

Poor thing! I later found out that she was actually struggling with wanting to be a vegetarian (she has been one since the age of 10).
I had made her the object of discussion with my campaign. Something she would have much preferred not to be.

I'm telling you this because I know what it's like to feel that your opinions about your daughter are being ignored and feeling angry at the injustice of the situation.
And I do agree with your opinions about the 'fear culture.

But at the end of the day, do you really want this issue to escalate? As it is, your daughter appears to be being singled out for special attention. 
I know she's only 6, but what does she think about it?


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## Guest (Jan 11, 2012)

MaidenScotland said:


> They will probably say but once she is in our care we cannot let her leave without an adult being responsible for her.


*Exactly.* Which adult is legally responsible for her during those few meters she has to walk? I completely understand the teachers who have said no, that's an enormous legal risk for them to take, *even if you sign any sort of parental release*. This could have serious legal implications not just for the school but the teachers and you. Therefore, it doesn't surprise me at all that they have said no. You've got to respect their position. Even though I understand your position, I would've personally done the same. It's one heck of a risk for a teacher to assume. 

I've been searching for the law in question but I can't find it. I wonder if it's a law or a school policy. If you've got a major issue with the policy, ask to speak with either the _jefe de estudios_ or _director_ and maybe they can help you understand why the policy is in place.


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## Guest (Jan 11, 2012)

Since I can't edit the previous post anymore... 
I said "you've got to respect their position" with regards to the fact that even if they may personally agree with you that it's entirely healthy and just fine for your daughter to walk home alone, their hands are bound and therefore policy has to be enforced.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Its the same in the UK, in fact in some schools you have to write a letter if you have arranged for someone else to pick up a child - even if its the father in separation cases. Its all about passing responsibility and the school have to physically pass your child over to you and then its your problem if anything happens. Theres no point in making a fuss, it'll just alienate you and your daughter IMO. 

Jo xxx


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## agua642 (May 24, 2009)

Hi,
Im British & my daughter was born in Ibiza, she & friends have walked home over the years, In fact it was never a question I got asked or an Issue, we lived in a puig den valls. Also the kids walked to & from school in the village & other villages! Depending on what village you live in, and if there's roads nearby, I have friend all over the island, some kids get picked up, some walk, but I do remember the teacher waiting for parents on some occasions especially at age 6.
However if you feel she is safe walking home, and she is happy to walk home, and there's no danger, then I'm not sure there's a law on this! I will see if I can find out. 
Enjoy Ibiza! It's a lovely safe island..


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## hannahibiza (Jan 17, 2008)

agua642 said:


> Hi,
> Im British & my daughter was born in Ibiza, she & friends have walked home over the years, In fact it was never a question I got asked or an Issue, we lived in a puig den valls. Also the kids walked to & from school in the village & other villages! Depending on what village you live in, and if there's roads nearby, I have friend all over the island, some kids get picked up, some walk, but I do remember the teacher waiting for parents on some occasions especially at age 6.
> However if you feel she is safe walking home, and she is happy to walk home, and there's no danger, then I'm not sure there's a law on this! I will see if I can find out.
> Enjoy Ibiza! It's a lovely safe island..


Interesting. I do now think my child has been focused on by the school. That might be because I am a single mother and English too. I see another mother on the country lane meeting up with her daughter so they obviously do not apply the same rule to everyone. 

Yes, Ibiza is a very safe island and it seems most of the danger comes from the overprotection, which is as extreme in my experience as it is unnecessary. I feel the Spanish are twenty years behind the UK in several ways and are being overprotective due to the UK having been overprotective before. They seem to follow the Uk but with a twenty year time lapse. Yes, let me know if you find anything out. I phoned Unidad and a woman (not a solicitor) told me the island rule was ALL school children must be collected at the school gate no matter what age. How barmy is that? Worthy of a petition I think


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## tonyinspain (Jul 18, 2011)

I as a parent agree with the school 
I would never let my children walk home from school and one has left school but my youngest is 11 yrs old and we still waitvoutside school and bring him home 
At 6 and half noway 
You wouldnt do it in england just because this is spain your guards down!!!
There is as many if not more perverts and nasty people here as in the uk except its 10 x bigger so use your loaf the schools right protect your child i understand your reaspning making her aware but god forbid i wouldnt want that to br a reason for her becoming a statistic so nooooooo way let her out of your sight


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## hannahibiza (Jan 17, 2008)

tonyinspain said:


> I as a parent agree with the school
> I would never let my children walk home from school and one has left school but my youngest is 11 yrs old and we still waitvoutside school and bring him home
> At 6 and half noway
> You wouldnt do it in england just because this is spain your guards down!!!
> There is as many if not more perverts and nasty people here as in the uk except its 10 x bigger so use your loaf the schools right protect your child i understand your reaspning making her aware but god forbid i wouldnt want that to br a reason for her becoming a statistic so nooooooo way let her out of your sight


You walked your eldest child to school every day of his life? You have an eleven year old child at school and you do not allow him to walk home alone? 

Ibiza is not ten times bigger than the UK. What has size of country got to do with it anyway? 

God forbid a child's mental and social development is hindered and, in some cases ruined, due to overprotective parents hovering around the school gates for sixteen year old kids. That would be a crime against humanity for sure. Unfortunately there are so many of them, unlike child abuductors.....child abductions being at an all time low in the Western World. But! Better not take chances! Ok, so we'll all deaden them inside a bit for sure but at least non will fall victim to the very rare stranger abduction or abuse, rare due to almost all attacks on children being commited by people they know. 

I know of one mother whose seven year old daughter is still put into a nappy at night.....just to be sure. Well, you never know!

Do you hold a lightening shield over your kids when outside? You know the chances of them getting abducted are probably about the same as getting struck by lightening. You never know!


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## Guest (Jan 11, 2012)

hannahibiza said:


> Interesting. I do now think my child has been focused on by the school. That might be because I am a single mother and English too.



I would be very surprised if that were the case. The fact that you have stated that the teachers had your daughter sitting, waiting for you indicates to me the strong possibility that you were late to pick her up. "Unfortunately," there is a short period of time when parents or legal guardians must pick up their children and when that time frame is repeatedly abused, it becomes an issue. 

If I am incorrect in my assumptions, I apologize. However, given your previous statements about the school's behavior, that's what I would believe is happening. 

If you are consistently on time to pick up your daughter and feel that you are being mistreated you ought to bring it up with the school's _AMPA_ (Parents' Assotiation).


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

halydia said:


> I would be very surprised if that were the case. The fact that you have stated that the teachers had your daughter sitting, waiting for you indicates to me the strong possibility that you were late to pick her up. "Unfortunately," there is a short period of time when parents or legal guardians must pick up their children and when that time frame is repeatedly abused, it becomes an issue.
> 
> If I am incorrect in my assumptions, I apologize. However, given your previous statements about the school's behavior, that's what I would believe is happening.
> If you are consistently on time to pick up your daughter and feel that you are being mistreated you ought to bring it up with the school's _AMPA_ (Parents' Assotiation).


her point is though, that her daughter has been happily walking home from school alone - she wasn't collecting her daughter at all, & the school, until recently, appeared to be happy with this

I agree with you (& said earlier) that it would be best to get AMPA involved in this issue


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## Guest (Jan 11, 2012)

xabiachica said:


> her point is though, that her daughter has been happily walking home from school alone - she wasn't collecting her daughter at all, & the school, until recently, appeared to be happy with this


I just re-read the original post and you're correct, I'm sorry. 

There could be all sorts of issues, problems with _inspección_, etc.


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## tonyinspain (Jul 18, 2011)

Sorry but thats my opinion and i was referring to spain as a whole not a tiny little island 
At my childs school if im late they ring me rarely but they do ring 
Last term they had transport for him and a lady was assigned to the bus to see him into school !!!!
This term the bus is a lot earlier and i said he could wait half an hour at the gate to be let in at 9am no i have to pay for a teacher to stand with him until 9am
There is from what i can understand a legal requirement to pass the child to a responsible adult on finishing school 
As from protecting our children yes we do but not to the extent your trying to infer
Also as jojo said are you wanting to alienate ypur child and yourselves over what ivwould say a trivial matter
Is it hard work for you to walk 300metres to collect your youngster
And i think at 6+ yrs she is too young sorry if you dont like my comment but its my opinion
Ho and by the way i own a bar in our village and my youngster is very well known in the village but i still collect him 
Horses for courses


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

hannahibiza said:


> . I phoned Unidad and a woman (not a solicitor) told me the island rule was ALL school children must be collected at the school gate no matter what age. How barmy is that? Worthy of a petition I think


.. And the first time a child goes missing or worse, everyone who signs that petition is gonna feel sick with guilt. 

Like I said earlier, its how it is in the UK and has been for a good many years - My children are now 14 and 16 and thats how it was when they were at primary school - a letter had to go in if my mother in law was picking them up, or if they were going to tea at a friends. In fact thats was how it was at the primary school in Spain and it was reassuring. I dont understand the problem??!

Jo xxx


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## jimenato (Nov 21, 2009)

tonyinspain said:


> There is from what i can understand a legal requirement to pass the child to a responsible adult on finishing school


Do you know up to what age?


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## tonyinspain (Jul 18, 2011)

As far as i am aware its 12 yrs of age but tommorrow i will check with the head as he is excellent and will explain their polacies
Its similar when you see young children in the front of cars they are not allowed until 12 to be in the front of a vehicle even with child seats but i will ask and find out what i can about the subject and will post it here
But i get the impression that hanna wont be happy if she is wrong and wont like the answer!!!!
She doe not like any opinion if i differs from hers
And as a ps i 50yrs ago went to school on my own but the world has changed and its a parents duty to protect their children no matter what age 
And it only needs one child to be hurt and this post would seem rediculas the school is right and all they are asking is the child is safe in their care


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## jimenato (Nov 21, 2009)

tonyinspain said:


> As far as i am aware its 12 yrs of age but tommorrow i will check with the head as he is excellent and will explain their polacies
> Its similar when you see young children in the front of cars they are not allowed until 12 to be in the front of a vehicle even with child seats but i will ask and find out what i can about the subject and will post it here
> But i get the impression that hanna wont be happy if she is wrong and wont like the answer!!!!
> She doe not like any opinion if i differs from hers
> ...


I'm not quite sure how the world has changed in 50 years such that then it was OK to go to school on your own but now it's not. It's certainly no more dangerous in fact in some ways it's safer (fewer deaths on the road and so on). In what way do you think it has changed?


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

jimenato said:


> I'm not quite sure how the world has changed in 50 years such that then it was OK to go to school on your own but now it's not. It's certainly no more dangerous in fact in some ways it's safer (fewer deaths on the road and so on). In what way do you think it has changed?


 I think its changed, mainly the number of cars, making crossing the roads dangerous, mothers arent at home patiently waiting for their offspring as much, there are more people milling around these days meaning that any suspicious characters are more camouflaged, communites arent as observant, knowledgeable/interfering as they used to be and most of all I think that there is the need to blame in todays society.

In the "good old days", I used to walk home from school, a mile or so along a quiet road, with other kids and without realising it, we all looked out for each other. There were few cars, and along the way we'd pass Miss Frenchs house, who would occasionally be in her garden and give us an apple or something. We'd see other people regularly and it was all very simple and friendly. I do remember once we walked passed a flasher who produced his rather dirty looking "crown jewels - we all just ran, but cos we were all together, we were fairly safe and just laughed the rest of the way home - it was the first time I'd seen a, well you know - I actually thought it was a brussell sprout stalk in his trousers LOL!. Most of all the schools werent responsible and if we didnt arrive home in good time, we'd get a telling off. 

Is it like that today??? Do we now feel we are more able to prevent anything awful happening by being there and of course how does the child who's mum isnt there at the school gates feel when all the other parents etc are!??? Schools today have to be responsible for the children in their care - thats how it is and they have to be seen to transfer that care to a responsible adult at the correct time. Its all about statistics, blame, responsibility and safety 

Jo xxx


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## jimenato (Nov 21, 2009)

jojo said:


> I think its changed, mainly the number of cars, making crossing the roads dangerous, mothers arent at home patiently waiting for their offspring as much, there are more people milling around these days meaning that any suspicious characters are more camouflaged, communites arent as observant, knowledgeable/interfering as they used to be and most of all I think that there is the need to blame in todays society.
> 
> In the "good old days", I used to walk home from school, a mile or so along a quiet road, with other kids and without realising it, we all looked out for each other. There were few cars, and along the way we'd pass Miss Frenchs house, who would occasionally be in her garden and give us an apple or something. We'd see other people regularly and it was all very simple and friendly. I do remember once we walked passed a flasher who produced his rather dirty looking "crown jewels - we all just ran, but cos we were all together, we were fairly safe and just laughed the rest of the way home - it was the first time I'd seen a, well you know - I actually thought it was a brussell sprout stalk in his trousers LOL!. Most of all the schools werent responsible and if we didnt arrive home in good time, we'd get a telling off.
> 
> ...


Statistics: There may be more cars but there are far fewer killed on the roads now than 50 years ago (amazingly!), Statistics: No more kids are kidnapped or molested than years ago. The 'feeling' is that things now are 'worse' than they were 50 years ago but that is not borne out by the facts. If anything is different now it is peoples perceptions - not the reality. You used the term 'The Good Old Days' and in truth this is an illusion. It is probably a product of wall to wall news and availability of information. I don't blame anyone for being more fearful nowadays about the welfare of children but it is a shame because there is a case to be made that they are actually safer and they are being unnecessarily restricted in their freedom and development because of this misperception. I'm glad I haven't got any and therefore don't have to make decisions about this.


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## Sirtravelot (Jul 20, 2011)

I've been skimming through this thread and it reminded me of something that happened to me.

I went to school in Portugal until I was eleven and I was always picked up and taken there by my mother. Most of my other friends would walk home since they lived closer to the school, but my house was a bit further away, and under the blazing sun, I would sizzle if I had to walk. My friends had NEVER had any problems while walking home.

Alas, one day, when I was ten (2002), I decided that on that very day I would go to a friend's house (quite near mind you, 5 minutes away). Her and I walked, and not shortly after -BOOM!- I was mugged by a gang of seven 16 year old Angolans. To say that I was traumatized would be an understatement. Nobody helped.

So all this talk about whether things are worse or better than in the olden times and crime rates here and there don't really mean much in my opinion. If you're unlucky, you're unlucky. It was bad enough for me with 11 years of age, if something like that had happened to me at 6 I would have become agoraphobic. So yeah, I gotta side with the school on this one. 





Knock on wood, I've not encountered any trouble wandering Glasgow past midnight!


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## dunmovin (Dec 19, 2008)

jojo said:


> communites arent as observant, knowledgeable/interfering as they used to be and most of all I think that there is the need to blame in todays society
> Jo xxx



political correctness got in the way?


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## hannahibiza (Jan 17, 2008)

Have any of you considered the possiblity the answer to the claimed problem of communities not being the same as they used to be going back to how we used to think and act? If you carry on doing what you've always done you'll only ever get what you always got. My community does not have this problem. My daughter could confidently talk to anyone around. In fact, my daughter is so used to strangers and being a girl about town that she could quite happily join a table of diners at a restaurant in our village and very happily chat to a hitch hiker in the back of our van, which she has the opportunity of doing it seems most times we go out. I think it's a precious and rare gift to give a child the freedom from the fear of strangers and it's a tragedy so few have it. The lack of children on the streets has been part of the cause in the decline in community spirit, trust and duty.

_'And as a ps i 50yrs ago went to school on my own but the world has changed and its a parents duty to protect their children no matter what age' _

No it is not a parent's duty to protect their children no matter what age. It is a parent's duty to raise their children to deal with whatever life throws at them because it's simply not possible to protect them from everything and doing so will be counter-productive as what you will end up with is a child and eventually an adult less capable of fighting his battles. Parents should not try to be super heros. They should try to make their children super heros. 

You have to be the change you hope for.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

dunmovin said:


> political correctness got in the way?


Probably! But its how it is. Its like the seat belt law. Alot of folk didnt like it, didnt like being told what to do, to wear a seat belt..... but its now the law and we mostly wear them and of course, the day you dont and you have an accident........... Sometimes, the rules and law are interfering and seem silly, but someone will be saved by it. You just have to go with it IMO

Jo xxx


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## hannahibiza (Jan 17, 2008)

jojo said:


> Probably! But its how it is. Its like the seat belt law. Alot of folk didnt like it, didnt like being told what to do, to wear a seat belt..... but its now the law and we mostly wear them and of course, the day you dont and you have an accident........... Sometimes, the rules and law are interfering and seem silly, but someone will be saved by it. You just have to go with it IMO
> 
> Jo xxx


Sorry but the seatbelt law is not a good correlation because going without a seatbelt in no way benefits a person or community whereas walking home alone does. The only benefit to preventing children walking home alone is the protection of their short-term safety. The benefits to walking home alone is obvious to the child and the community.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

hannahibiza said:


> Sorry but the seatbelt law is not a good correlation because going without a seatbelt in no way benefits a person or community whereas walking home alone does. The only benefit to preventing children walking home alone is the protection of their short-term safety. The benefits to walking home alone is obvious to the child and the community.


I dont disagree with you, I probably would feel the same way, its a shame and taking independence and freedom away from kids which is a shame. But I've been in the UK for so long with 5 kids over the years and I'm used to it and it was the same in mainland Spain at my childrens primary school! As you/someone said, Ibiza is a few years behind. But its catching up and you have to see it from the "legal" perspective. IF something happened to your child and the school hadnt handed her over to a responsible adult, they would be liable. I dont feel they are singling you out. It sounds to me that they are moving towards how things are in the rest of europe and cant make allowances. They call it progress, but unfortunately fighting it will always be scuppered by that one on a million child who goes missing as a result...!!!

But I repeat, I dont disagree with you and its a shame, so please dont think I'm being horrible!

Jo xxx


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## jimenato (Nov 21, 2009)

I am prepared to agree that it is right to restrict children's freedom in this way for their safety nowadays if that is the general feeling but that it therefore must have been wrong 50 years ago to let them walk home alone - because nothing's changed except, possibly, for the better.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

I said a while ago that almost all parents try to do the best for their children, but "the best" has a different definition according to who's behind it. For some it's giving all the protection they think a child needs, for others it's about giving the child opportunities, or placing the child in situations where they will be stimulated and most of us will muddle along picking and choosing from various child rearing theories.
In an ideal situation most of us would like both ourselves and our children to feel comfortable with our day to day lives, so if, for example, walking to school, riding a horse or going to hospital to see a relative isn't going to be traumatic for *anyone* involved - perhaps they should be allowed to do this.
My daughter walked to school on her own long before some of her friends. I left her on her own 2 mornings a week when she was about 8 because a morning class came up and she rose to the occasion, felt proud of herself, and felt trusted. But she felt confident about it and so did we, some of her friends couldn't have coped.
So for me how this is done and how everyone feels about it is essential. To do this I think you also have to think about how the child would cope with something going wrong. 
And IMO, that's the flaw in this argument. Does a 6 year old know what to do if she is followed? Does she have a neighbour to go to, her own key, a mobile phone, an older child around? 
Personally I think 6 is too young, and so does the school by the looks of it, but you know your daughter and the area, and you're the one who has to decide - for both yourself and her.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

jimenato said:


> I am prepared to agree that it is right to restrict children's freedom in this way for their safety nowadays if that is the general feeling but that it therefore must have been wrong 50 years ago to let them walk home alone - because nothing's changed except, possibly, for the better.



I dont things are worse nowadays, but I do think its easier for "bad" things to happen. Not such a protective community, people move around easier and freer, so more "strangers", people arent as observant........And then theres go old litigation and fear of responsibility/blame culture 

Interestingly I went passed my old school a while ago and the quiet road I used to walk home along is now a dual carriageway with two round abouts, I couldnt/wouldnt want a child walking along that these days!

Jo xxx


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## Sonrisa (Sep 2, 2010)

Sorry to jump in. I would be unconfortable to allow my precious six years old walk alone in the street, but I don't judge other parents for doing so. 

I don't know what is the law with regards to this. I think in the unlikely event that something happened to her whilst walking alone in the street, you could be accused of negligence. Same for the school, they could be held accountable for allowing her out in the street without an adult supervising her. 

I can see you feel very strongly about giving your child the independence you think she needs, but at this age is very important for children to have clear rules and to feel accepted and integrated within the rules in the school environment. I think it would be best for you and your dauther just to go with the flow and pick up your daughter until the school relaxes its rules with regards to this. You can give her independence in so many other ways.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

jojo said:


> I dont things are worse nowadays, but I do think its easier for "bad" things to happen. Not such a protective community, people move around easier and freer, so more "strangers", people arent as observant........And then theres go old litigation and fear of responsibility/blame culture
> 
> Interestingly I went passed my old school a while ago and the quiet road I used to walk home along is now a dual carriageway with two round abouts, I couldnt/wouldnt want a child walking along that these days!
> 
> Jo xxx


I'd go along with that.
Things have changed, and this is exactly the way in which they have.
In general Spain still holds on to some of the values of looking after or looking out for each other, but it's changing, and one of the reasons is US, the immigrants!!!


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## hannahibiza (Jan 17, 2008)

A little update...

I went to the small town hall today and spoke to a very unhelpful woman who tutted at every mistake I made with my Spanish (it's not an easy topic to discuss but I did pretty well), gave her opinion (thanks but not what was asked for) and shrugged her shoulders when I asked how I could find out what the law states. 

I then went to the main town hall and was sent upstairs. I explained it all again, the woman said, 'So what is the problem?' and I at first laughed and then said, 'Exactly....what is the problem? The problem is the school says it's illegal.' She gave me the number of the education department in Ibiza Town. I phoned them and spoke to a very helpful lady who thought it was so funny she could hardly talk. She knows the area and could picture the scene of me sitting under the olive tree waving at my little girl and watching her skip down the hill towards me. She also ended by saying, 'What is the problem?'. She didn't know of a law to prevent my daughter leaving alone so gave me the number of the school inspector who, she said, would know. I've just phoned and spoken to another nice lady who will pass on my question to the head inspector who I have to phone in the morning. 

Maybe I should make a spoof Youtube video of the route to show how ludicrous they are and call it, 'Braving the gauntlet'.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

hannahibiza said:


> A little update...
> 
> I went to the small town hall today and spoke to a very unhelpful woman who tutted at every mistake I made with my Spanish (it's not an easy topic to discuss but I did pretty well), gave her opinion (thanks but not what was asked for) and shrugged her shoulders when I asked how I could find out what the law states.
> 
> ...


I think you are making this into too much of an issue. There are more important things to fight for

Jo xxx


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## hannahibiza (Jan 17, 2008)

jojo said:


> I think you are making this into too much of an issue. There are more important things to fight for
> 
> Jo xxx


My little crusade is one small battle against the fear mentality. If everyone had a little crusade, children would be a more noticeable part of society and that would benefit everyone. It must be such a delight for an old lady in a field to see a little girl walk past on her way to school, especially is she stops to say hello. Children are the hub of society as they draw everyone closer.


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## tonyinspain (Jul 18, 2011)

Sorry hanna 
Your not convincing anyone you do as you please
The majority of posts agree she is toooo young and the school is right and protecting your child if you cannot see this then im sorry but i realy hope nothing happens to her because of your stubbon ideals
Sometimes rules are here to protect us however stupid we feel about them 
And to stir up a hornets nest to make a point albeit in your mind a valid one is not helping your case
Im all for letting children have their freedom but come on 6 yrs old no sorry
You say you alloe your daughter to talk to strangers (you certainly like putting her in the lions den dont you)
We were always taught not to talk to strangers and i would say the majority of parents have said this to their children and yes i and my wife do worry for thr safety of our children as my mum worries about me shes 80 yrs old and still rings to check we are ok
Im sure your a loving caring mum but go with the flow or you will find that little community will get fed up of the moaning brit with the shop down the road and avoid you so be careful its not a big issue is it 
And just step back when in rome come to mind


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## Veronica (Apr 5, 2008)

Good heavens, what a lot of fuss because the school are taking their responsibilty for your child seriously. They are probably cautious because if anything happened to your daughter on her way home if they allowed her to go alone you could sue them. If anything happens on her way there then you are one who is responsible. It is your choice to allow her to walk to school alone but why should the school be expected to take chances with the safety of a child in their care?
You need to just accept the fact that the school have this policy and be grateful they care about your child.


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## ukmocha (Jan 5, 2012)

Tough one here! I understand Hannah's desire to let her child be free, open and independent but I have to agree with the majority that six is rather young to be walking home alone - no matter how far.

In our village, children are everywhere in the streets, however there is always a watchful parent or adult around and it seems as if each family looks out for the next.

When I was young (primary school) we would walk to and from school without adult supervision. It was less than a 2 minute walk with a lolipop lady at the top of the hill where there was a busy road - by 1970s standards! 

At secondary school, my sister and I would walk three miles to school - each way! I don't believe that it was safer, but there did seem to be some supervision from adults you would see going to and from school. 

Other parents in the neighbourhood could tell you off and send you home to your parents for a good clip around the ears! lol Now that is politically incorrect nowadays!

Fast forward to 2012 in my home town in the UK, children are "bussed" to school or driven by a parent. The laws are stricter in regards to who can pick them up. As an aunt I would regularly pick up my nieces and nephews when they were little and that just wouldn't be allowed in the current system - without written approval.

Times have changed and there are many warranted and beneficial laws that protect and nurture a child's growth. The best one can do is try to equip children with the ability to function well within the current rules and to choose their battles wisely in regards to challenging them.


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## tonyinspain (Jul 18, 2011)

Well said veronica


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## hannahibiza (Jan 17, 2008)

tonyinspain said:


> Sorry hanna
> Your not convincing anyone you do as you please
> The majority of posts agree she is toooo young and the school is right and protecting your child if you cannot see this then im sorry but i realy hope nothing happens to her because of your stubbon ideals
> Sometimes rules are here to protect us however stupid we feel about them
> ...


Toni. I admire your parenting ideals as much as you admire mine. I think any parent who picks up their child from school all the way through to 16yrs of age has failed their child and this overprotective act must surely be an indicator of other failures. Do you allow your kids to sit watching TV for hours at a time? Video games? Do you prevent them or not encourage them to play outside unsupervised, something that is crucial to child development? Do you feed them junk food and allow them to eat sweets regularly? Do you buy them cheap plastic rubbish made in China or do you try to raise them in a more environmentally friendly and conscientious way? We have no TV, we have musical instruments to pass the time, we never play video games, she plays outside a lot on her bike/roller skates with lots of other kids on a daily basis, we eat homemade wholesome food at a dinner table three times a day, her gifts are handmade/second hand/rarely new for ecological and moral reasons. 

This rule is not even a rule but a preference, as I have discovered, not to protect the children but to make life easier for the school. As not many children leave alone it makes it hard for the school to determine who's where and who should be doing what. It is purely a self protection measure and because of that it contravenes Spanish Law which states the child must always come first, the child's development must never be hindered, the child has the right to speak her mind and the the child must be allowed to gradually become a fully active member of society. It breaks the law in a few ways. 

I was never told to not talk to strangers. What a horrible thing to tell children?! I have never said that to my child! I have told her to never accept sweets from strangers and to never go anywhere with strangers. I have acted out role play pretending to offer her sweets in a car or pretending I have puppies in a car, etc. She knows to run if she feels scared and to scream if she feels very scared. I test her regularly. Funnily enough I asked her how she would feel and what she would do if a stranger was walking behind her while she walked alone. She looked at me as though I was a bit daft and said, 'Nothing'. That is the best answer a parent could hope for. Who would feel good about themselves if their child felt afraid just because another person was walking nearby? That is a terrible thing to do to a child. My child still has her innocence but not many her age do.

Are you trying to suggest I don't worry about my child's safety? I probably worry more than you do because I'm doing the rare thing and giving her the freedom she wants and needs to grow up to be a more dynamic and couragious adult. It is highly likely to pay off though as in time I will worry less and less while my counterparts continue to worry neurotically.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

The world is a changing place, - even in the depths of Spain and its Islands and of course its not always to our liking, but we cant pick or choose the things we want to keep and those we dont - unfortunately. I'd love for mine to have grown up skipping down the street without a care in the world, but in the past bad things have happened, albeit rare, no one wants that on their conscience, hence the way things are today

I hope Hannah, the OP isnt offended. It goes without saying she wants whats best for her little girl and thats good enough to mean that she'll grow up to be a bright and independent young lady! We have to give our views when asked. 

Hannah, we do understand

Jo xxx


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## hannahibiza (Jan 17, 2008)

Jo...I am not offended but determined to not fall into the same fear based mentality almost everyone has fallen into.

This all comes down to conditioning and breaking out of it. It is a fact that we are not living in a more dangerous society (especially where I live.....you would not believe how safe it is) and it is a fact there are less deaths on the road, probably because of all the pedestrian crossings, speed humps, speeding fines and breathalisers. It is also a fact that it is a critical factor in successful child rearing to allow children to gradually develop a sense of independence. So why are any of you still saying, 'Oh, but what if?' Do you walk around wearing a lightning shield just in case lightning strikes? Do you make your kids sleep on the floor knowing they are more likely to die falling out of bed than being killed by a child abductor? 

What are your thoughts on picking up hitch hikers, something I do mostly without thought even when I have my daughter in the van with me? Probably Toni thinks that is too terrible to even contemplate. I'm very grateful for the countless fixes lifts from strangers have rescued me from and I'm delighted to have rescued people in return. Life without these wonderful things would be far less worthwhile. But then people who never pick up strangers in need or watch their young daughter skip down a hill with a look of achievement will not know what I'm talking about.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

hannahibiza said:


> Jo...I am not offended but determined to not fall into the same fear based mentality almost everyone has fallen into.
> 
> This all comes down to conditioning and breaking out of it. It is a fact that we are not living in a more dangerous society (especially where I live.....you would not believe how safe it is) and it is a fact there are less deaths on the road, probably because of all the pedestrian crossings, speed humps, speeding fines and breathalisers. It is also a fact that it is a critical factor in successful child rearing to allow children to gradually develop a sense of independence. So why are any of you still saying, 'Oh, but what if?' Do you walk around wearing a lightning shield just in case lightning strikes? Do you make your kids sleep on the floor knowing they are more likely to die falling out of bed than being killed by a child abductor?
> 
> What are your thoughts on picking up hitch hikers, something I do mostly without thought even when I have my daughter in the van with me? Probably Toni thinks that is too terrible to even contemplate. I'm very grateful for the countless fixes lifts from strangers have rescued me from and I'm delighted to have rescued people in return. Life without these wonderful things would be far less worthwhile. But then people who never pick up strangers in need or watch their young daughter skip down a hill with a look of achievement will not know what I'm talking about.



I guess I'm a conformist and to make life easier for myself and my children I've brought them up to conform - the alternative, in the wrong hands can cause anarchy and can be misconstrued as rebellious and uncontrollable, not good attributes if they want to get on in society. Children need to be given independence, but thats the parents job, not the schools, cos if it all goes wrong, a school could be sued. 

I have 5 children, the three eldest now in their 20s and they are great, they are bright, happy and intelligent, all with good jobs and lives. the fact that they didnt walk home from school hasnt affected their independence or well being. The younger two 14 and 16, walk to school and college and actually will beg for a lift most mornings and afternoons cos they are lazy lumps who think I'm a taxi service!!!


........ and no, I wouldnt pick up hitch-hikers, nor would I like my children to hitch hike. On a risk assessment, that woud be too dangerous for both parties!
Jo xxx


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## hannahibiza (Jan 17, 2008)

jojo said:


> I guess I'm a conformist and to make life easier for myself and my children I've brought them up to conform - the alternative, in the wrong hands can cause anarchy and can be misconstrued as rebellious and uncontrollable, not good attributes if they want to get on in society. Children need to be given independence, but thats the parents job, not the schools, cos if it all goes wrong, a school could be sued.
> 
> I have 5 children, the three eldest now in their 20s and they are great, they are bright, happy and intelligent, all with good jobs and lives. the fact that they didnt walk home from school hasnt affected their independence or well being. The younger two 14 and 16, walk to school and college and actually will beg for a lift most mornings and afternoons cos they are lazy lumps who think I'm a taxi service!!!
> 
> ...


I once ran out of petrol at dusk with my daughter 2km away from the petrol station. There was no footpath so we had to somehow walk on the edge of the busy road. I kept sticking my arm out to get a lift but cars would just beep and not stop. It was pretty damn dangerous and we both ended up very upset and physically wrecked. It happened again when I had my child with me and this time I decided I was not going to risk walking along a main road with cars wooshing past again. I waited for a decent gap in the traffic and stood in the lane with my hand out making the stop sign. I got a lift in a Merc by a very impressed local. The other week I drove along an empty road to find a woman with lots of bags of shopping with her arm out. I took her all the way to her door, which was quite a way, and she was nearly in tears with gratitude. Her husband was in hospital after having a serious car crash and she was on her way back home after visiting him on the bus, but the buses don't run everywhere. Those are just a few examples of many but normally I can get a lift very easily. In fact, I hitch almost every time I go out at night and every time I come back. 

You see what happens when people put self protection before civil duty and what happens when they don't? I hope I never assume the worst about any person or any normal situation.


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## MaidenScotland (Jun 6, 2009)

If parents in Spain are expected to deliver and collect their children from the school gates why are there policeman on traffic duty outside the school?


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

MaidenScotland said:


> If parents in Spain are expected to deliver and collect their children from the school gates why are there policeman on traffic duty outside the school?



IME to sort the traffic out!! Cos parents just stop in the middle of the road and wait for their offspring. It used to drive me mad!

jo xxx


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## MaidenScotland (Jun 6, 2009)

jojo said:


> IME to sort the traffic out!! Cos parents just stop in the middle of the road and wait for their offspring. It used to drive me mad!
> 
> jo xxx




ohh doesn't happen in my area. all the roads are closed off around the school. no lollipop man but the police are on zebra crossing duty.. seems a waste of resources


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

MaidenScotland said:


> If parents in Spain are expected to deliver and collect their children from the school gates why are there policeman on traffic duty outside the school?


that's almost what I said in my first post right at the beginning of this thread - the police outside the school help the kids across the road, with or without their parents

it's all about being sensible

at the primary school my 2 went to, the infants had to be collected - but I saw some being collected by their 7 year old siblings

some of the parents will be collect their kids in a car - which could easily be parked 300m from the school (it's on a long straight road) but wait in/at the car for them to come out

from the time they started primary at age 6ish a letter came home at the beginning of the year asking if the child would be using the school bus, being collected, or walking alone or with a sibling to & from school


I wouldn't let my 6 year old do a long walk from school which meant crossing several roads - no way

but 300m or so on a straight road from the school where I could see her pretty much the whole way, and be waiting & watching...why not?


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## tonyinspain (Jul 18, 2011)

Hanna sorry you feel the way you do one of my sons has a job in compuers the other the is in the milatary as i qas and my father before me so i dont class our parenting skills as obsolete the values i got were from my parents and my wifes parents which are passed on but there is not a book that teaches you how to be a good parent and i know you are with the last post you wrote!!!!
But in my view your wrong and thats that there is and always will be elements in any country that can cause us harm and let me clarify something i live 6klm from the school but thats not the point i would not let a 6 yr old walk home alone sorry but thats my view 
I hope you are not offended by this but in your last post i will comment 
We dont buy new all the time and we havent had it easy either we cannot afford a piano and yes we have a tv well we are in the 21st century and my children are not spoilt but there again they have never been in trouble with the law 
And we dont eat junk food either also one other thing we dont prop up bars or ever go out and leave our children with other people so you do what you feel is right for your child but dont force onto us your views ours is tried and tested over generations and adapted over life 
I am not going to answe anymore on this subject as i think its done its course
All the best tony


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

xabiachica said:


> that's almost what I said in my first post right at the beginning of this thread - the police outside the school help the kids across the road, with or without their parents
> 
> it's all about being sensible
> 
> ...


 Its a blanket rule! It was the same when my parents-in-law were alive. They lived less than 20 yards from the primary school my children attended and even knew most of the staff - even then on the odd day when they went back to grandmas for tea, I had to write or phone the school to let them know. It was purely for accountability - of course nothing would happen, but tthe records had to show that it was being done for everyone.


The "blame" culture has a lot to answer for, I dont necessarily agree with it but its here and IMO, theres no point fighting it - that just a recipe for becoming unpopular. 

Jo xxx


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

jojo said:


> Its a blanket rule! It was the same when my parents-in-law were alive. They lived less than 20 yards from the primary school my children attended and even knew most of the staff - even then on the odd day when they went back to grandmas for tea, I had to write or phone the school to let them know. It was purely for accountability - of course nothing would happen, but tthe records had to show that it was being done for everyone.
> 
> 
> The "blame" culture has a lot to answer for, I dont necessarily agree with it but its here and IMO, theres no point fighting it - that just a recipe for becoming unpopular.
> ...


agreed - but a lot of kids from the age of 6 DO walk to & from school unaccompanied here - if the parent ticks the 'walks alone' box, then I guess that absolves the school of all responsibilty


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## MaidenScotland (Jun 6, 2009)

jojo said:


> Its a blanket rule! It was the same when my parents-in-law were alive. They lived less than 20 yards from the primary school my children attended and even knew most of the staff - even then on the odd day when they went back to grandmas for tea, I had to write or phone the school to let them know. It was purely for accountability - of course nothing would happen, but tthe records had to show that it was being done for everyone.
> 
> 
> The "blame" culture has a lot to answer for, I dont necessarily agree with it but its here and IMO, theres no point fighting it - that just a recipe for becoming unpopular.
> ...




Yes but its not a blanket rule in Spain..


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

MaidenScotland said:


> Yes but its not a blanket rule in Spain..


 Its pretty much. certainly in the towns on the costa del sol

Jo xxx


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## MaidenScotland (Jun 6, 2009)

... I posted the school hours for my granddaughter... 5 policemen have to be on duty that many times a day on school patrol. Crazy or what?


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## MaidenScotland (Jun 6, 2009)

jojo said:


> Its pretty much. certainly in the towns on the costa del sol
> 
> Jo xxx




mmm the Costa del Sol is not Spain


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

MaidenScotland said:


> mmm the Costa del Sol is not Spain


 No, you're probably right, but it is european and I suspect its a directive thats come out of Brussels, most nonsense comes from there lol!! 

Jo xxx


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

jojo said:


> No, you're probably right, but it is european and I suspect its a directive thats come out of Brussels, most nonsense comes from there lol!!
> 
> Jo xxx


Jávea can't be in Europe then


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## JoCatalunya (Mar 16, 2011)

Forgive me for saying this if it has already been said, but why doesnt Hannah arrange with one of the other mums to pick up her child. That way the school will be happy and so will the child, because as everyone knows walking home with your friend whose mum admittedly is towing behind is very grown up. School will be able to breath a sigh of relief they have done what was required, Child and childs mum will have been allowed a degree of self determination.

Personally speaking if it were my child I wouldnt be considering letting her walk to school on her own aged 6, my grand daughter is 6 and even though she lives in a very quiet neighbourhood and her friend lives just 100 yards down the road either her mum or dad take her to the front gate and that is how I think it should be.

Years back it was safer, why, because the neighbours watched out for you, the local Bobby walked the beat and (in my case) we went to school with our friends, not on our own.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

MaidenScotland said:


> If parents in Spain are expected to deliver and collect their children from the school gates why are there policeman on traffic duty outside the school?


I think they are there to help people cross, otherwise why wold they be at the zebra crossing? At my child's primary school there were always policemen on duty - unless they were called somewhere else of course! You couldn't count on the police being there - there usually were, but not always, so it was totally unreliable way of ensuring that your child was helped across a busy road.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

MaidenScotland said:


> mmm the Costa del Sol is not Spain



Hmm...is Blackpool England?
Schools in the UK have to make blanket rules to cover both the conscientious and the neglectful parents. I was a Head Teacher and have on occasion been obliged, after waiting over an hour for a parent to collect her child from the school, to drive the child home. In Hannah's case, I would have assessed the situation myself by speaking to Hannah and the child and observing at the school gate for a few days.
Nothing to do with Brussels or any 'blame' culture.
If 'blame' should be attached anywhere, it should be stuck on the culture of litigation. If anything goes wrong or mildly upsets us, we are encouraged by the legal profession to sue. It's a commercial issue, not a political one. Another burden imposed on the day-to-day business of teaching.
As for risk....I once had a member of staff who was imprisoned for six months for downloading child pornography. Risk is everywhere. Hannah is quite correct in preparing her child for the dangers in life. It's what good schools do too.
A culture of over-protectiveness is as harmful as one of total negligence.
As with most things in life, the skill is in finding a balance.


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## Sonrisa (Sep 2, 2010)

I havent really followed this thread carefully, but I remember someone suggesting that it is wiser to chose the battles you whish to fight for your child carefully...as I know only too well, rising children in a foreign country isn't easy and often you have to comform with rules and ideas that go against your own, and this is fine. 

I'm sure you want the best for your child, but be careful not to use your daughter as a mean to fight little crusades against your community's mentality.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Sonrisa said:


> I havent really followed this thread carefully, but I remember someone suggesting that it is wiser to chose the battles you whish to fight for your child carefully...as I know only too well, rising children in a foreign country isn't easy and often you have to comform with rules and ideas that go against your own, and this is fine.
> 
> I'm sure you want the best for your child, but be careful not to use your daughter as a mean to fight little crusades against your community's mentality.


That did cross my mind...
I used to work for a Headteacher who often applied what he called the 'Sod it Factor'.....i.e. if it was a smallish issue with no really great potential for either harm or good, you didn't expend energy and effort on it.
You just said 'Sod it' and got on with life, thinking your own thoughts about it, of course.


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## gill556 (Dec 23, 2010)

I have only glanced at most of the posts and as a grandmother I have never had children in a Spanish School. My first thought is why does someone come to another country to live then decide that they want to change the rules? When in Spain you follow Spanish rules. Surely if you want to give your daughter the independance you crave, why not collect her from school then after she has been home let her out to play or go wherever you feel is appropiate. At least you will have relieved the school of the responsibility of worrying if she is ok along with probably several hundred other pupils.


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## MaidenScotland (Jun 6, 2009)

gill556 said:


> I have only glanced at most of the posts and as a grandmother I have never had children in a Spanish School. My first thought is why does someone come to another country to live then decide that they want to change the rules? When in Spain you follow Spanish rules. Surely if you want to give your daughter the independance you crave, why not collect her from school then after she has been home let her out to play or go wherever you feel is appropiate. At least you will have relieved the school of the responsibility of worrying if she is ok along with probably several hundred other pupils.




It is not the rules and that is why the original poster is posting


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

MaidenScotland said:


> It is not the rules and that is why the original poster is posting


you're right - it seems that they aren't the rules

and they certainly weren't the rules at the primary school my 2 went to


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## MaidenScotland (Jun 6, 2009)

The whole world has gone p.c and healthy and safety mad... Dinnerladies has just come on my television and I have been warned there are references of a sexual nature!!


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

MaidenScotland said:


> The whole world has gone p.c and healthy and safety mad... Dinnerladies has just come on my television and I have been warned there are references of a sexual nature!!


_*that*_ really is stupid!!


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

MaidenScotland said:


> The whole world has gone p.c and healthy and safety mad... Dinnerladies has just come on my television and I have been warned there are references of a sexual nature!!


I'm no prude, far from it, but I must admit to being a bit taken aback by some of the explicit content and language of programmes watched by quite young children.
Maybe it's my age, I don't know.
But then my all-time favourite tv show is 'Allo Allo' which has so much double-entendre. I think most of it would go over the heads of the young,though, not like today's tv.
Watching the news can be dodgy too, I guess, for the prurient. Explaining about the significance of Monica Lewinsky's blue dress to enquiring eight-year-olds must have required some skill.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

gill556 said:


> I have only glanced at most of the posts and as a grandmother I have never had children in a Spanish School. My first thought is why does someone come to another country to live then decide that they want to change the rules? When in Spain you follow Spanish rules. Surely if you want to give your daughter the independance you crave, why not collect her from school then after she has been home let her out to play or go wherever you feel is appropiate. At least you will have relieved the school of the responsibility of worrying if she is ok along with probably several hundred other pupils.


I kind of agree with you. Personally with a 6 year old I wouldn't insist that she walked home on her own too much. If it was a 10 year old, well that to me is another matter.
However in this case, not only does the mother feel it's curtailing the child's freedom, but she's also questioning if it's true, as the school has stated, that there are rules about this. She also said at one point that she thought other families were being treated differently.
For what it's worth, I would go back to picking the child up, and would continue to talk to the school authorities with out the child being present or knowing if I thought it were that important.


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## hannahibiza (Jan 17, 2008)

And finally!!!

Yesterday the school director told me it would be possible to sign a disclosure document to agree that they would not be responsible for my daughter after she leaves the school at hometime. I had told them I'd spoken to the police, the education authority and the social services and no-one had known of any legal impediment preventing her leaving alone. I think the fact the lady at the education authority had found it so funny she couldn't stop laughing swung it for me. 

So there you go.....victory for common sense and liberty. 

The first time my daughter made it to the top of the hill without me, maybe six weeks ago, her face said it all.....sheer joy at her own achievement and autonomy. She still smiles, jumps and squeals but not as much as on that day. Someone asked why I don't ask another mother to take her if I can't. I can take her but I want her to walk on her own. Not only is it fantastic for her confidence but also a great start to a school day. When all other kids arrive feeling sluggish after a car journey she will arrive full of life. Allowing a child to walk home alone also says, 'I trust you...I think you are capable', which is a great thing to hear for anyone, especially a child. 

This, I can tell you, is not the easy option. This is the stressful and worrying option, but I believe it will pay dividends in the end. Time will tell. Thanks for everyone's input. The moral of the story is this.....if something is important to you you should fight for it and not wimp out. :clap2:

p.s. my battling with rules in another country is, I feel, more than compensated for by my battles FOR said country. I do more to promote this village than anyone else on the island.


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## bob_bob (Jan 5, 2011)

Well done and I'm sure you've given those pedantic Spanish teachers something to gossip about in the staff room


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## brocher (Mar 21, 2011)

It may not have been the law but it was the rule - set for the benefit and protection of the majority.

You may have found a way round the school rules on this occasion, Hannah, but you can be sure you have also alienated the school against yourself, and more importantly, your daughter. You can be sure they will, whether cosciously or subconsciously, treat you with less sympathy on future issues which may be more important.

Expect no sympathy if your daughter is ever bullied up that quiet lane.

"The first time my daughter made it to the top of the hill without me, maybe six weeks ago, her face said it all.....sheer joy at her own achievement and autonomy. She still smiles, jumps and squeals but not as much as on that day."

As a matter of urgency, teach her not to smile and jump up that lane, rather to walk near the edge staying alert for any mad motorist screaming up the lane - or any other "stranger 
danger." Remember the Sarah Payne case - quiet lanes are perfect cover for wrongdoing. Even adults are advised not to walk in quiet places on their own. Also teach her not to get in vehicles with, or talk to strangers and hitch-hikers which you seem rather proud of her ability to do.

There have been many tragic accidents over the years when a child, away in a daydream, chasing a dog, whatever, walks in front of a vehicle. The results are devastating, not only for the child's family, but also for the poor innocent driver.

There is safety in numbers. Six year olds together with a group of neighbouring children of the same age, and older, is completely different to a solitary six year old. That is the difference between what children did in the past, and what you are proposing your little daughter does now.

You are wrong if you think you will find six year olds walking to school on their own in the UK. What the government is encouraging, and what is happening, is for parents to walk to school with their children instead of taking the car. We live in rural Scotland where children that age can still play in the street where parents and neighbours can see them - but they are all accompanied to school.

You are probably quite right in saying that the amount of really, really serious crime perpetrated by the kind of mentally disturbed people who have always been around, hasn't increased. However, the volume and speed of traffic has increased hugely - as has the amount of drink/drug addled idiots capable of anything.

While you are quite right in trying to avoid over protecting your child, I do think, you may just be going a little far, a little fast.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

bob_bob said:


> Well done and I'm sure you've given those pedantic Spanish teachers something to gossip about in the staff room


Pedantic Spanish teachers
OR
teachers trying to cover themselves if anything happens to the child?
As a teacher myself, (now working with adults, but in the past teaching children) I am very aware of the responsibility you are taking on as a teacher.
Hannah has got what she wanted and it seems her daughter will be happy too. And now that it has been talked about perhaps the teachers will also be OK with it.
I doubt that I would have done the same, but that doesn't mean to say I would have been right.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

I hope it stays a happy victory for Hannah and her little lady 

Jo xxxxx


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