# UK to US on L-1B - Declaring Criminal Activity



## twinks (Feb 23, 2010)

Hello All,

So I have reached the stage in my L1-B visa application where I need to say if I've been arrested or not. Ever. And, is says "arrested", not "convicted".

Unfortunately in my younger, naive and more rebellious years I did get caught up in a couple of things, although not particularly major according to the US attorney dealing with my case, but the rules are quite clear, its "arrests" and so despite the fact I wasn't convicted, I do need to declare them. And, I indend to.

The rules state that if you have ever been arrested you need to make an appointment for a visa interview and bring the following;

1) a completed personal data sheet, Form VCU1.
2) A police certificate from the ACPO issued less than 6 months before your visa interview;
3) copies of the court record(s) covering all charges of which you have been convicted, or which are presently pending against you, if relevant. (Required if you have a conviction outside the United Kingdom or your ACPO states "No Trace" or "No Live Trace" or does not list in full your arrests/convictions/cautions).

Now, 1) and 2) are very clear and thats no problem, I can arrange those. BUt I'm not entirely sure I understand 3) properly;

Since I got cautioned for both indiscretions (both of which were around 16-20 years ago btw), although I think one was actually a bind over to keep the peace for 5 years which I did, what is the likely outcome of my ACPO certificate?

It is my understanding that as far as the UK is concerned those incidents are considered "spent". (I know for the purpose of applying for a visa that makes no difference though). So, if they are spent, I assume my ACPO certificate will come back "No Live Trace" in which case, is 3) above saying I need to provide court records?

I'm pretty sure I didn't go to court for either offense, the first was just dealt with at the police station, and the 2nd was supposed to go to court but was dealt with by way of a bind-over before that happened.

So how do I go about providing court records that (maybe) don't exist? Do I need court records if there were no convictions? And if so how?

For the record I'm not trying to hide anything at all cos that would be baaaad, but I just want to know what the correct thing to do is and how, because it all takes ages and I want to get it right first time.

Any help appreciated.

Oh, and why am I not asking the US attorney referred to above? Well technically I'm not her client, the company is and she's not too receptive of my queries so I'd rather avoid it if I can.

Thanks,
Twinks.


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## Fatbrit (May 8, 2008)

twinks said:


> Hello All,
> 
> So I have reached the stage in my L1-B visa application where I need to say if I've been arrested or not. Ever. And, is says "arrested", not "convicted".
> 
> ...


If the bound-over went to court, there should be _memorandum of conviction_ available at the court where the case was heard. You can usually only order copies of these at the actual court where it was heard.

Cop shops will sometimes have paperwork for cautions. Again, you'll need to visit the actual police station where you got the caution.

For both of the above, if they have nothing try to get them to give you a document stating they have no record.


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## twinks (Feb 23, 2010)

Fatbrit said:


> If the bound-over went to court, there should be _memorandum of conviction_ available at the court where the case was heard. You can usually only order copies of these at the actual court where it was heard.
> 
> Cop shops will sometimes have paperwork for cautions. Again, you'll need to visit the actual police station where you got the caution.
> 
> For both of the above, if they have nothing try to get them to give you a document stating they have no record.


Hi fatbrit, thanks for your reply.

I seem to remember being summoned to court, but then when I got there I was told that I wasn't going to need to go before the magistrate and that I could agree to it being dealt with by way of a bind-over instead. (I got the impression that the other guy hadn't turned up, so maybe that's why). I was led to believe that a bind-over would be preferable to going before the court, as it is not the same as a conviction, more like a warning, and if you do it again within the time period (5 year) you could be in more trouble.

So does this mean that it went to court then, or not? I'm a bit confused by it.

It was a long time ago (around 15 years) so I don't reallly remember the details well. And btw, it was for "Affray", basically I got into a bit of a scrap with somebody in the street :/

I did phone the magistrate's court today though and they said I need to write in giving them the exact dates, (which could be tricky), and I also need to pay £60!!

Thanks,
Twinks.


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## Fatbrit (May 8, 2008)

twinks said:


> Hi fatbrit, thanks for your reply.
> 
> I seem to remember being summoned to court, but then when I got there I was told that I wasn't going to need to go before the magistrate and that I could agree to it being dealt with by way of a bind-over instead. (I got the impression that the other guy hadn't turned up, so maybe that's why). I was led to believe that a bind-over would be preferable to going before the court, as it is not the same as a conviction, more like a warning, and if you do it again within the time period (5 year) you could be in more trouble.
> 
> ...


No idea whether it'll be in the court records or not. If your ACPO comes back with "No Trace" as opposed to "No Live Trace", then I doubt there are accessible records anywhere. The consular officer will want to see that you've made a good faith effort to track them down if they exist.


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## twinks (Feb 23, 2010)

Fatbrit said:


> No idea whether it'll be in the court records or not. If your ACPO comes back with "No Trace" as opposed to "No Live Trace", then I doubt there are accessible records anywhere. The consular officer will want to see that you've made a good faith effort to track them down if they exist.


Thanks Fatbrit.

Ok, well I've also sent of an access request to the police under the DPA which hopefully will have actual dates on it, then I can apply to the court for any records they may have.

I truly hope the access request stuff comes back before the quoted 40 days though :/ that is a major time sink otherwise.

Something else which I have just recognised about the visa application, is the fact I actually visited the United States for a 8 day business trip in 2007 and I think I must have entered under the Visa Waiver Program. I guess I didn't pay this much attention at the time and had long forgotten about the arrests from 15-20 years ago.

Having been forced to think about all this in minute detail now it seems I should not have done this, since any previous arrest for crimes of moral turpitude or violations of a controlled substance make you ineligible for that scheme. (The other run in I had was for the possession of a tiny amount of marijuana for which I got let off with a caution).

My immigration attorney has asked be about any visits to the US within the last 5 years and on what visa status I entered on, and so it seems I've violated the scheme. 

I bet this is going to be a problem now right? 

Regards,
Twinks.


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## Fatbrit (May 8, 2008)

twinks said:


> Thanks Fatbrit.
> 
> Ok, well I've also sent of an access request to the police under the DPA which hopefully will have actual dates on it, then I can apply to the court for any records they may have.
> 
> ...



The marijuana one is your biggest issue. Anything more than 30g of marijuana for personal use is a permenant bar (with no waivers available) to achieving permenant residence in the US.

You're failure to declare your previous convictions on the I-94W may well come into play. 

The past is fixed -- you cannot change it. Probably best to clear the table now so you know where you stand. You don't want to be denaturalized and deported 20 years down the road after making a life here.


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## twinks (Feb 23, 2010)

Fatbrit said:


> The marijuana one is your biggest issue. Anything more than 30g of marijuana for personal use is a permenant bar (with no waivers available) to achieving permenant residence in the US.
> 
> You're failure to declare your previous convictions on the I-94W may well come into play.
> 
> The past is fixed -- you cannot change it. Probably best to clear the table now so you know where you stand. You don't want to be denaturalized and deported 20 years down the road after making a life here.


Oh it wasn't anywhere near as much as that even. More like 5g I imagine.

How will they know the amount? I guess it'll be recorded on one of the docs I am trying to obtain.


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## Fatbrit (May 8, 2008)

twinks said:


> Oh it wasn't anywhere near as much as that even. More like 5g I imagine.
> 
> How will they know the amount? I guess it'll be recorded on one of the docs I am trying to obtain.


Yep. The drugs are bad news. You may need a waiver to overcome that bar for your non-immigrant L1b visa.


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## twinks (Feb 23, 2010)

Hi again,

Ok so this is odd; I sent off for a subject access request for a PNC disclosure a few weeks ago. (Yes, I know I need the ACPO certificate and will be sending off for that too, but that doesn't contain information if convictions are spent, it should say "No Live Trace". I wanted to see what was actually stored about me on the PNC).

So I got my PNC disclosure back today, and its completely clear. "From the personal information you have supplied, it is confirmed that there is no record of you on the PNC".

How can this be? It was a long time ago so perhaps I am mistaken, but I am pretty sure I was "arrested" for the incidents above. WHy would they not be on the NPC? And if not on the NPC where else would they be stored?

Regards,
Twinks.


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## cbsquirrel (Apr 3, 2010)

You may want to get further in depth with your immigration atty about your age when you committed those crimes. In the U.S., once you turn 18, they will seal your criminal records from when you are a minor. I'm not an atty so I don't know the exact details (there are ways to find out about crimes committed when you are a minor, but they usually considered inadmissable in court). Anyway, it may be to your advantage that you committed these crimes when you were a minor.


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## twinks (Feb 23, 2010)

cbsquirrel said:


> You may want to get further in depth with your immigration atty about your age when you committed those crimes. In the U.S., once you turn 18, they will seal your criminal records from when you are a minor. I'm not an atty so I don't know the exact details (there are ways to find out about crimes committed when you are a minor, but they usually considered inadmissable in court). Anyway, it may be to your advantage that you committed these crimes when you were a minor.


Sadly I was over 18 

Anyway, I've sent off for the ACPO Certificate now and expect to get in by early next week. So we'll see what happens.

Incidentally I've often wondered what the point of the certificate was given that it honours the "step down" model for the rehabilitation of offenders act, however, an appeal case that happened around October 2009 means that now it doesn't, so all history stored should be on the certificate. I'll wait and see.


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## Fatbrit (May 8, 2008)

cbsquirrel said:


> You may want to get further in depth with your immigration atty about your age when you committed those crimes. In the U.S., once you turn 18, they will seal your criminal records from when you are a minor. I'm not an atty so I don't know the exact details (there are ways to find out about crimes committed when you are a minor, but they usually considered inadmissable in court). Anyway, it may be to your advantage that you committed these crimes when you were a minor.


For US immigration purposes, all arrests and convictions at whatever age are put on the table.


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## twinks (Feb 23, 2010)

I received my ACPO Certificate today.

NO TRACE.

Not sure what to make of it :/


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## Oxon2 (Nov 14, 2013)

*made it to US*

Hi It looks like you made it to the US did you find any documentation or did you fill in a declaration and that was acceptable? I am in a very similar situation to the one you were in and I wondered how it worked out. Hope you get this post and can help


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## popkace (Feb 13, 2012)

Even if you went to court and got a not guilty verdict I would have thought that was time spent and not declare able , I thought only guilty cases counted.


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## Davis1 (Feb 20, 2009)

Oxon2 said:


> Hi It looks like you made it to the US did you find any documentation or did you fill in a declaration and that was acceptable? I am in a very similar situation to the one you were in and I wondered how it worked out. Hope you get this post and can help


this thread is 3 year old always read the date


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## popkace (Feb 13, 2012)

Fair enough Davis but I wanted an answer to the question I posed.......now maybe you would be kind enough to clarify.........do you declare a non guilty court appearance or not as a family member was charged and taken to court, he was innocent and found by the judge and jury to be innocent, do he declare that as it states have you ever been arrested, but the Judge at the court told him to get on with his life and forget the case as it was a false accusation.


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## twostep (Apr 3, 2008)

popkace said:


> Fair enough Davis but I wanted an answer to the question I posed.......now maybe you would be kind enough to clarify.........do you declare a non guilty court appearance or not as a family member was charged and taken to court, he was innocent and found by the judge and jury to be innocent, do he declare that as it states have you ever been arrested, but the Judge at the court told him to get on with his life and forget the case as it was a false accusation.


The question is 'have you ever been arrested'.


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