# What happens to your Spanish Pension when you leave?



## solomani (Jul 27, 2019)

Hi all,
I am interviewing for a role in Spain and I noticed the pension contributions by the employer is quite high. What happens to that pension when you leave Spain?

For example, in HK they let you withdraw it and take it with you. 

Thanks in advance.


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## Nomoss (Nov 25, 2016)

Before anyone can answer your question you will have to indicate your nationality and where you are living by completing the information in your profile.


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## solomani (Jul 27, 2019)

I can not - permission denied, I am too junior to modify my profile.


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## 95995 (May 16, 2010)

solomani said:


> I can not - permission denied, *I am too junior to modify my profile*.


The only reason I can think of for not being able to modify your profile is that you are accessing the site on a mobile phone. That said, you could just post your nationality and where you are living.


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## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

Very generally speaking, it usually depends on where you are living when you reach pensionable age and any and all "social security treaties" between Spain and the country where you choose to retire.

This, of course, assumes that you are talking about the "national pension" plan and not a private pension arrangement. Within Europe, you very often can combine years worked among all the EU countries in which you worked. It may result in a "partial pension" from each of the countries in which you worked, but that can easily add up to a halfway decent pension in total.


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## solomani (Jul 27, 2019)

Great, thank you. For context, I live in Australia (and I am an AU and EU citizen). So if I pay into the Spanish pension for 15 years and then move home I will be able to claim some money from the ES Government. 

But if I leave before that point I assume it's just lost?


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## NickZ (Jun 26, 2009)

Like Bev alluded to it depends on the social security agreements between countries. 

Assuming "home" is Australia start here

https://www.dss.gov.au/about-the-de...ustralia-and-spain-frequently-asked-questions


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## Chopera (Apr 22, 2013)

solomani said:


> Great, thank you. For context, I live in Australia (and I am an AU and EU citizen). So if I pay into the Spanish pension for 15 years and then move home I will be able to claim some money from the ES Government.


That's more or less it, although the Spanish government regularly make noises about increasing the limit to 20 years before you can claim the Spanish contributory pension.



solomani said:


> But if I leave before that point I assume it's just lost?


If you are an EU citizen you may be able to combine the years worked in Spain with years worked in other EU countries in order to claim a pension, even if you have worked less than 15 years in Spain. This is what Bev was talking about. For example if you have worked 20 years in France and then work 10 years in Spain and retire in Spain, you can claim 30 years contributions under an EU mechanism to make sure EU citizens don't lose out by working in different EU countries. So the contributions in Spain might not necessarily be lost.


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## 95995 (May 16, 2010)

Chopera said:


> That's more or less it, although the Spanish government regularly make noises about increasing the limit to 20 years before you can claim the Spanish contributory pension.
> 
> 
> 
> If you are an EU citizen you may be able to combine the years worked in Spain with years worked in other EU countries in order to claim a pension, even if you have worked less than 15 years in Spain. This is what Bev was talking about. For example if you have worked 20 years in France and then work 10 years in Spain and retire in Spain, you can claim 30 years contributions under an EU mechanism to make sure EU citizens don't lose out by working in different EU countries. So the contributions in Spain might not necessarily be lost.



It would not be the first time that Spain has changed its arrangements re accessing the Spanish pension.

The social security agreement between Australia and Spain does provide for years worked in each country to be taken fully into account. That does not necessarily mean, however, that Australia will not reduce the Centrelink pension (which is non-contributory and essentially a safety net arrangement, however it is very important given the very onerous residence requirement for those not Australian born to access the Centrelink pension - currently over 40 years - not sure if it also applies to those who are Australian born). 

As NickZ posted, the place to start is the social security agreement between the two countries.


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## kaju (Oct 31, 2011)

EverHopeful said:


> It would not be the first time that Spain has changed its arrangements re accessing the Spanish pension.
> 
> The social security agreement between Australia and Spain does provide for years worked in each country to be taken fully into account. That does not necessarily mean, however, that Australia will not reduce the Centrelink pension (which is non-contributory and essentially a safety net arrangement, however it is very important given the very onerous residence requirement for those not Australian born to access the Centrelink pension - currently over 40 years - not sure if it also applies to those who are Australian born).
> 
> As NickZ posted, the place to start is the social security agreement between the two countries.


The requirement for residence in Australia to get the Age Pension from Australia is 10 years. Spanish residence can be added to this to make up 10 years if required.

Australian Working Life Residence only applies to Age Pension payments made by Australia to people overseas. In that case, full payment is made with 35 or more years of AWLR. Spanish residence can also be added to Australia for this. If you had say 10 years residence between 16 years old and retirement age in Spain, and say 20 years in Australia, then you would get 30/35ths of the applicable full Age Pension, after any income or assets were accounted for, if you are living outside Australia.

A Spanish Age Pension should be payable as Australian residence adds to Spanish residence so you can meet the residence qualifying period. But of course, that doesn't increase the amount payable if you are getting paid from a contributions-based Pension from Spain - the amount will be based on your contributions to that scheme.

Whatever Age Pension amount you receive from Spain will need to be declared to Centrelink and will reduce the Australian Age Pension (assuming you meet the requirements for that, of course) by 50% of that amount.

It's also worth noting that if you come back to Australia to claim the Age Pension at say 67 years old (when people born after 1956 become eligible), OR if you claim it from an Agreement country (like Spain) and then return to Australia some time later, and then leave Australia again, that you may or may not be able to get the Australian Age Pension again for 2 years.

Some useful info: https://www.dss.gov.au/about-the-de...ustralia-and-spain-frequently-asked-questions


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## Williams2 (Sep 15, 2013)

Hi Guys,

Thanks for drawing the Social Security Agreements between Australia and Spain to the attention
of British Expats, either currently working in Spain ( or in the future could be working in either the
UK and Spain ) and will consequently lose out when the number of years he or she has been 
contributing into the British or Spanish state Pension - will not count towards the other countries
state pension scheme. As the cut off date will be the day of Britain's departure from the EU ( or Brexit Day )

Here is an example of an Agreement between a Non EU Country and an EU Country where 
British Expats could find themselves short changed in comparison after Brexit.

Naturally I'll be writing to my British MP highlighting the Spain - Australia deal which looks superior
to anything I've seen so far in the oft-mooted Reciprocal Arrangements deal, as regards Pensions
& Social Security entitlements between the UK & Spain.


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## 95995 (May 16, 2010)

Williams2 said:


> Hi Guys,
> 
> Thanks for drawing the Social Security Agreements between Australia and Spain to the attention
> of British Expats, either currently working in Spain ( or in the future could be working in either the
> ...


OK, just be aware that agreement is one that was specifically negotiated between Spain and Australia and I guess it would depend on the willingness of the UK (in particular  ) and Spain to negotiate something similar, though it could certainly serve as a template. Australia however does not have social security agreements with all EU (countries) and they might not all be the same.


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## Williams2 (Sep 15, 2013)

EverHopeful said:


> OK, just be aware that agreement is one that was specifically negotiated between Spain and Australia and I guess it would depend on the willingness of the UK (in particular  ) and Spain to negotiate something similar, though it could certainly serve as a template. Australia however does not have social security agreements with all EU (countries) and they might not all be the same.


As things stand ( correct me if I'm wrong ) the reciprocal agreements or bilateral agreements 
( call them what you will ) in the event of Britain falling out of the EU as a result of a no
deal Brexit are:

That both Britain and Spain will only count those NIC's and SS's contributory years by British
and Spanish people living and working in each others country, up until final Brexit Day; 
towards the entitlement years to each others respective State Pension scheme.
So Brexit day is the cutoff point for taking into account the number of years you have
contributed into the other countries State Pension scheme; in order to meet the minimum
number of years State Pension entitlement ( to be eligible for it, in the first place )

Australians living and working in Spain and Spaniards living and working in Australia
are safe and sound in this regard as ( unlike the Brits ) there's no cutoff date
thanks to the Social Security Agreements between Australia and Spain, as both 
countries are unaffected by Brexit.

Boris and the Brexiteers are forever spouting off about all these special trade deals that
are to be had once Britain finally leaves the EU.
It's about time they got down to the nitty, gritty and started getting to grips with all the
Special Social Security Agreement deals to be had, like the one currently enjoyed by
Spain and Australia !!

:nod:


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## 95995 (May 16, 2010)

Williams2 said:


> As things stand ( correct me if I'm wrong ) the reciprocal agreements or bilateral agreements
> ( call them what you will ) in the event of Britain falling out of the EU as a result of a no
> deal Brexit are:
> 
> ...


Well, I don't live in Spain and haven't for decades, just as I haven't lived in the UK for decades, so haven't been watching the particular issues for Brits in Spain very carefully; I have absolutely no idea how time worked in either country will be counted, or not counted, with regards to years worked, especially given Boris is now PM. But I guess you found that information somewhere or came to the conclusion by some means. I certainly believe, though, that social security agreement will be way down his list, except perhaps if there were previously agreements in place.


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## NickZ (Jun 26, 2009)

The UK / Spain social security agreement is dated 1975. That's before Spain entering the EU.

You might want to remember the number of Spanish workers affected likely far exceeds the number of UK workers.


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## Williams2 (Sep 15, 2013)

NickZ said:


> The UK / Spain social security agreement is dated 1975. That's before Spain entering the EU.
> 
> You might want to remember the number of Spanish workers affected likely far exceeds the number of UK workers.


Of course I have mentioned Spanish workers as well as British workers throughout my posts; naturally
one hopes that whatever gets finalised will not put both sides citizens, in a poorer position
( taking into account all previous agreements ) than what we have now, but there again we are
dealing with a British government and Tory party that's driven more by sound bites - It's Brexit or bust !!
mentality than common sense.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

NickZ said:


> The UK / Spain social security agreement is dated 1975. That's before Spain entering the EU.
> 
> *You might want to remember the number of Spanish workers affected likely far exceeds the number of UK workers*.


Very unlikely in fact.

The most recent figure I found for the total number of Spanish registered as living in the UK isn't much over 100,000

Of around 600,000 Brits registered as living in Spain, only about 20% are of retirement age. 

That leavesr more than 470,00. It's a HUGE stretch to imagine that over 350,000 of those have no need to work, & just going on my immediate circle, an overwhelming majority of those under 65 do indeed work.


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## NickZ (Jun 26, 2009)

Don't think about current residents.

Think about all the people that have worked in the UK for even one year over the years.


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## Chopera (Apr 22, 2013)

xabiaxica said:


> Very unlikely in fact.
> 
> *The most recent figure I found for the total number of Spanish registered as living in the UK isn't much over 100,000*
> 
> ...


I suspect those figures are skewed because in Spain you pretty much need to take out residency in order to work, whereas in the UK you don't. Furthermore my understanding is that taking out residency in the UK is a bit of a bureaucratic nightmare, which further puts people off.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

NickZ said:


> Don't think about current residents.
> 
> Think about all the people that have worked in the UK for even one year over the years.


And plenty the other way.

Just in my town we had 3000 more registered brits than now when we first arrived.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Chopera said:


> I suspect those figures are skewed because in Spain you pretty much need to take out residency in order to work, whereas in the UK you don't. Furthermore my understanding is that taking out residency in the UK is a bit of a bureaucratic nightmare, which further puts people off.


Yes, all figures are skewed - you only have to look at the mad rush to register in Spain by Brits since Brexit crawls ever closer. 

And sadly many have also been (illegally) working.


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