# US Citizen / student Visa denied



## crispbeans (Feb 29, 2012)

Hi,

I want to post this here in the hopes that no one will have to go through the same hell I did this summer. 

I am a US citizen and I've been wanting to go to Spain to teach. So this summer I signed up to take a month-long course (120 hours / 20 hrs per week) in Madrid to become TEFL certified. The company also places you into a teacher's position through their schools. My contact with the company, another US citizen, told me I should get my student visa (even though you can be there for 90 days as a 'tourist'). I was told I could get the student visa, then apply for a residency card allowing me to work and reside there legally. She assured me there would be no problem. Wary, I researched the following question exhaustively, "can I apply for a Spanish student visa if my program of study is less than 90 days?" I couldn't find any answers. All the consulate webpage says is that a student visa is not _necessary_. I found nothing that said it was impossible. 

I spent most of my summer and over 600 dollars on documents and airfare to the Spanish Consulate (had to be there in person). I got there and the official said to me, "I can't issue you a student visa with these dates". The reason was that the duration of the program was not long enough. I argued nicely for 10 minutes, tried different angles, and she stayed firm and denied me a visa. She wouldn't even look at my other paperwork.

Has this happened to anyone else? 

I spoke to the coordinator of the company on the phone - he took it upon himself to call me from Spain when he found out about this. He said that he will give me a work contract and work with me one on one so I can get a work permit after I'm already in Spain (although he admitted he's not sure if I can get the Visa there). He sounded genuinely sorry and I don't think he would have gone out of his way if it were a scam since he already has my money.

What I want to know is - even if this guy gives me a signed contract and the Spanish government approves it, won't I have to return to the states in order to apply for a work visa? Or, is there a way to get around that after you are already in Spain as a 90 day 'tourist'? I mean, if a consulate in the states has to send the documents to Madrid anyway, couldn't I just apply in Madrid? Also, I will still have some of the paper work (like my criminal report and health status report) which won't expire for a couple months. I assume those may be helpful. 

Please help!


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

crispbeans said:


> Hi,
> 
> I want to post this here in the hopes that no one will have to go through the same hell I did this summer.
> 
> ...


thanks for posting this - we get so many people asking about this kind of thing - doing a TEFL course here & the company getting a resident/work visa for you - sounds like a nightmare for you though 

my understanding is that yes, even if the company gives you a contract which the govt approves, you can only apply for a work visa from back in the US

my first question would be - why would he offer a contract to anyone who doesn't have a work visa already? It costs a lot of money to apply for work visas & the company has to foot the bill

& my second question would be - why would the visa be approved when there are plenty of already qualified & experienced native English teachers who DON'T need work visas? 

it does sound like a scam to me - maybe not exactly a 'scam', since you would probably get the TEFL cert, but we do hear of a lot of non-EU citizens who come over for this kind of thing only to discover that they actually can't get a work visa - but they are allowed to work for limited hours on a student visa & that's what they do - not enough hours to pay the bills though - well, not legally, anyway 

as you have discovered, it's not so easy to get a student visa now, either


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## NickZ (Jun 26, 2009)

Usually to get a student visa the course needs to be more or less university level. Also I can't imagine why they'd give a student visa for one month. A tourist can take a class for the month. The only advantage would be the work hours. Now that alone would make the visa office suspicious. 

There are no visa offices in the country. You can't be in the country without a visa or other legal reason so there is no need for the office to exist.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

NickZ said:


> Usually to get a student visa the course needs to be more or less university level. Also I can't imagine why they'd give a student visa for one month. A tourist can take a class for the month. The only advantage would be the work hours. Now that alone would make the visa office suspicious.
> 
> There are no visa offices in the country. You can't be in the country without a visa or other legal reason so there is no need for the office to exist.


not exactly true....

the extranjerías in Spain do issue resident visas in some circumstances - but not changing from tourist to student, or student to resident/work visa


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## bob_bob (Jan 5, 2011)

How much are you paying this company?


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

crispbeans said:


> Hi,
> 
> I want to post this here in the hopes that no one will have to go through the same hell I did this summer.
> 
> ...


There are 2 or 3 schools in Madrid, that have been around for a long time that offer these courses and these conditions ( get student visa, do the course, we will find job). My advice has always been that the TEFL qualification you obtain is not a well recognised one and you will not be able to teach in well known organisations like the British Council and IH for example with this qualification. In other words that you wouldn't really be TEFL certified. This from the British Council website. The qualifications that it mentions are the ones to go for* if you're serious about teaching...
*


> The most commonly accepted qualifications are the Certificate of English Language Teaching to Adults (CELTA) awarded by Cambridge ESOL and the Certificate in Teaching English to Speakers of Other Languages (Cert. TESOL) awarded by Trinity College London. These certificates are generally seen as a minimum qualification to teach English as a Foreign Language. Distance learning courses can also be a good introduction, but feedback on your teaching practice is essential and most distance courses will not include this, and therefore will not be acceptable to many teaching institutes.Cambridge ESOL have recently launched (2011) an Online CELTA which blends distance learning with teaching practice in a classroom. Visit the Cambridge ESOL website for more information.
> The CELTA and the Cert. TESOL can be taken full-time or part-time at centres worldwide. The centres undergo a strict external inspection to guarantee standards both of the course and of assessment, and the courses include a substantial proportion of observed teaching practice on real students.


Apart from that there's the whole student visa thing which I don't really know about, but have my doubt that what these places offer is really "doable" . This kind of thing is changing a lot in Spain today. Spain doesn't give visas to Americans very easily anyway, and nowadays with the economic situation being what it is, I wouldn't be surprised that things get even more difficult.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Sounds a bit odd - remember that Spain has mass unemployment right now, so companies dont need to obtain costly visas or recruit from out of the country - unless you have extraordinary skills????

Jo xxx


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

xabiachica said:


> not exactly true....
> 
> the extranjerías in Spain do issue resident visas in some circumstances - but not changing from tourist to student, or student to resident/work visa


However, I think the idea is that you can work a reduced number of hours on a student visa, can't you? 20 hours a week???


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Pesky Wesky said:


> However, I think the idea is that you can work a reduced number of hours on a student visa, can't you? 20 hours a week???


yes, that's my understanding - I think it's 20 hours

but you'd have to get the student visa first - & it seems that the course the OP is talking about isn't a recognised/accredited one as far as the visa bods are concerned


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## crispbeans (Feb 29, 2012)

xabiachica said:


> thanks for posting this - we get so many people asking about this kind of thing - doing a TEFL course here & the company getting a resident/work visa for you - sounds like a nightmare for you though
> 
> my understanding is that yes, even if the company gives you a contract which the govt approves, you can only apply for a work visa from back in the US
> 
> ...


He offered the contract because from what I understand, you can't even apply for a work permit without it. As far as the Visa stuff goes, I don't know.


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## crispbeans (Feb 29, 2012)

NickZ said:


> Usually to get a student visa the course needs to be more or less university level. Also I can't imagine why they'd give a student visa for one month. A tourist can take a class for the month. The only advantage would be the work hours. Now that alone would make the visa office suspicious.
> 
> There are no visa offices in the country. You can't be in the country without a visa or other legal reason so there is no need for the office to exist.


I appreciate your response but I don't agree. US citizens can be in the Schengen zone for 90 days, so I don't know what you're saying about that. Furthermore, there is a clear reason for an office like that to exist. If there are such things as TEFL courses which place you into work (for which I apparently can't get a student visa), does it make any sense for me to fly all the way back to the United States to apply for my visa once I get my work contract? No. Surely there is somewhere I can go in Madrid. The consulates in the US have to send those documents to Madrid to be authenticated anyway, which is exactly where I'll be for my course.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

crispbeans said:


> He offered the contract because from what I understand, you can't even apply for a work permit without it. As far as the Visa stuff goes, I don't know.


The likelihood of you getting a work permit is very, very remote. As a someone with US nationality you can only be given a work permit if you are offered a job that no one else in the EU can do. There are literally thousands of British, Irish and Spanish English teachers here, so it's not really a possibility that you will get a work permit. What schools like this have done in the past is exploit the idea that students can work up to 20 days on a student visa, (I have never been sure that what they are doing is totally above board) but it seems that now there is a problem with getting that very visa.
Good luck.
Be cautious


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## crispbeans (Feb 29, 2012)

xabiachica said:


> yes, that's my understanding - I think it's 20 hours
> 
> but you'd have to get the student visa first - & it seems that the course the OP is talking about isn't a recognised/accredited one as far as the visa bods are concerned


Yes, it's 20 hours. My sister is in Madrid and she does that. The problem the consulate officials were having had nothing to do with the validity of the program. The program is recognized and accredited. They saw the _duration_ of the program and said it's a no-go. However, nowhere on the consulate web page does it say you can't apply for a student visa for a month-long course. It only says you don't _have to_. 

My concern isn't the student visa at this point. It was denied. I don't expect to get one in Spain either. However, I am guaranteed a contract through the course, so I want to to know how I get my _Work Visa_ when I'm already in Madrid as a 'tourist'.


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## crispbeans (Feb 29, 2012)

Pesky Wesky said:


> The likelihood of you getting a work permit is very, very remote. As a someone with US nationality you can only be given a work permit if you are offered a job that no one else in the EU can do. There are literally thousands of British, Irish and Spanish English teachers here, so it's not really a possibility that you will get a work permit. What schools like this have done in the past is exploit the idea that students can work up to 20 days on a student visa, (I have never been sure that what they are doing is totally above board) but it seems that now there is a problem with getting that very visa.
> Good luck.
> Be cautious


I do believe that only a US citizen can teach English with the proper pronunciation and spelling, am I right? For instance, English classes for students specifically preparing to study in the US. Maybe?


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

crispbeans said:


> Yes, it's 20 hours. My sister is in Madrid and she does that. The problem the consulate officials were having had nothing to do with the validity of the program. The program is recognized and accredited. They saw the _duration_ of the program and said it's a no-go. However, nowhere on the consulate web page does it say you can't apply for a student visa for a month-long course. It only says you don't _have to_.
> 
> My concern isn't the student visa at this point. It was denied. I don't expect to get one in Spain either. However, I am guaranteed a contract through the course, so I want to to know how I get my _Work Visa_ when I'm already in Madrid as a 'tourist'.


My opinion is that you won't get a _work visa_, but no one on here is an expert...

Here's the info from your own people
http://madrid.usembassy.gov/citizen-services/information-for-travelers/traveling-to-spain.html


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

crispbeans said:


> I do believe that only a US citizen can teach English with the proper pronunciation and spelling, am I right? For instance, English classes for students specifically preparing to study in the US. Maybe?


The preferred qualities/qualifications for most jobs teaching English in Europe is UK Home Counties pronunciation, accent, spelling and usage. 

It sounds that the 'job' you might be offered by this outfit will be far short of what you expect it to be and will probably pay you less than a living wage so that you will be forced to find (possibly illegal) private work. The contract will probably glowingly state that you will be offered a set number of hours at €X (a liveable wage) but there will be a clause in there that will state that the offer of employment, the hours and rate of pay is not guaranteed and will be conditional on such work being available. Of course, that work very rarely is available but since you agreed to the contract (you were happy to actually get a contract so you didn't take it to a legal adviser who would have pointed out all the pitfalls), you are stuck with it and, after all, they have your money so why should they care?

Be very careful when signing multi-page contracts and make a secret mark somewhere on each page so that intermediate pages cannot be replaced with differently worded ones later (it has been done, many times) and insist on a photocopy of the document that you actually sign


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

crispbeans said:


> I do believe that only a US citizen can teach English with the proper pronunciation and spelling, am I right? For instance, English classes for students specifically preparing to study in the US. Maybe?


I would have said that only an "English" citizen can teach "English" with the proper pronunciation and spelling! A US citizen would teach "American English" better, altho, an English citizen wouldnt need a work visa and would be far cheaper to employ - and of course there are many looking for work in Spain already

Jo xxx


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## NickZ (Jun 26, 2009)

crispbeans said:


> . If there are such things as TEFL courses which place you into work (for which I apparently can't get a student visa), does it make any sense for me to fly all the way back to the United States to apply for my visa once I get my work contract? No. Surely there is somewhere I can go in Madrid. The consulates in the US have to send those documents to Madrid to be authenticated anyway, which is exactly where I'll be for my course.



Two things.

The existence of the course unless it's offered by the Spanish government means nothing. 

Second point imagine you are denied. If you're already in Spain what do they do with you? They'd much rather deny you abroad. Also most of your documents are likely US. So need to go back to the same consulate that has already denied you.


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## 213979 (Apr 11, 2013)

crispbeans said:


> I appreciate your response but I don't agree. US citizens can be in the Schengen zone for 90 days, so I don't know what you're saying about that. Furthermore, there is a clear reason for an office like that to exist. *If there are such things as TEFL courses which place you into work (for which I apparently can't get a student visa), does it make any sense for me to fly all the way back to the United States to apply for my visa once I get my work contract? No.* Surely there is somewhere I can go in Madrid. The consulates in the US have to send those documents to Madrid to be authenticated anyway, which is exactly where I'll be for my course.


It might not make sense, but it is true. 
I had a friend who had been in Spain for years. She finally got a job who would sponsor her for a work visa. Although she was already working, she had to make *numerous trips* back to the US to apply and pick up the work. 

Let this be your first lesson into the "fun" of bureaucracy. :frusty:


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## 213979 (Apr 11, 2013)

crispbeans said:


> I do believe that only a US citizen can teach English with the proper pronunciation and spelling, am I right? For instance, English classes for students specifically preparing to study in the US. Maybe?


Oh, let's not start this argument. Sure, there are people who do prefer different accents but you will find that the many students will openly tell you your American way of speaking and writing is incorrect. Why? The vast majority of students I have ever seen have studied British English. 

The fact of the matter is that it is much, *much* easier to hire an EU citizen than to hire an American, Canadian, Australian, Kiwi, etc. You might be asking yourself "Well then, elenetxu, what are YOU doing there, smarty?" I'm married to a local and therefore have been granted residency and work permission.

Can you wait for another year? There are a number of programs that will bring you over legally and give you a liveable wage. I highly suggest the _Auxiliares de Conversación_ program. Apply the moment the application comes out (approx. November) to make sure you get a spot. It's first come-first served as long as you're a university junior or graduate and have no police record. CIEE offers placements through the same program, but you have to pay and they give you more orientation. There's also a Catholic school organization in Madrid which places language assistants. If you are interested in learning more, let me know and I can post links for you. 

I would be highly wary of a program which "guarantees" you a work visa but has you come over as a tourist. It's pretty easy to change from one visa to another but everyone I know who has: 1. let their visa expire or 2. come on a tourist visa and has wanted to either get a new visa or renew the visa has had to go home. It might not make sense in your mind but, well, buddy, this is the way it is. Don't get mad, don't protest, and especially don't tell the government employee "But this is NOT how it should be done!" Find a solution. 

Best of luck. The Cliff's Notes version of this would be: Don't trust the program, it sounds sketchy. I'd apply to a legit program for next school year.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

crispbeans said:


> I appreciate your response but I don't agree. US citizens can be in the Schengen zone for 90 days, so I don't know what you're saying about that. Furthermore, there is a clear reason for an office like that to exist. If there are such things as TEFL courses which place you into work (for which I apparently can't get a student visa), does it make any sense for me to fly all the way back to the United States to apply for my visa once I get my work contract? No. Surely there is somewhere I can go in Madrid. The consulates in the US have to send those documents to Madrid to be authenticated anyway, which is exactly where I'll be for my course.


the point is - they actually CAN'T place you into proper contracted jobs, nor help you get a proper work visa


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

elenetxu said:


> Oh, let's not start this argument. Sure, there are people who do prefer different accents but you will find that the many students will openly tell you your American way of speaking and writing is incorrect. Why? The vast majority of students I have ever seen have studied British English.
> 
> The fact of the matter is that it is much, *much* easier to hire an EU citizen than to hire an American, Canadian, Australian, Kiwi, etc. You might be asking yourself "Well then, elenetxu, what are YOU doing there, smarty?" I'm married to a local and therefore have been granted residency and work permission.
> 
> ...


Just console yourself with the thought that it is far harder the other way round - i.e. to get into the US


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

crispbeans said:


> Yes, it's 20 hours. My sister is in Madrid and she does that. The problem the consulate officials were having had nothing to do with the validity of the program. The program is recognized and accredited. They saw the _duration_ of the program and said it's a no-go. However, nowhere on the consulate web page does it say you can't apply for a student visa for a month-long course. It only says you don't _have to_.
> 
> My concern isn't the student visa at this point. It was denied. I don't expect to get one in Spain either. However, I am guaranteed a contract through the course, so I want to to know how I get my _Work Visa_ when I'm already in Madrid as a 'tourist'.


the course needs to recognised & accredited by the govt in order for you get a student visa - this course clearly isn't

your sister is working the permitted hours whilst here in Spain on a student visa - & that's fine - what she _doesn't _have, & what the company you have become entangled with _can't _offer, is a proper, resident/work visa (there would be no restrictions on the number of hours which can be worked, for example) - for that you would, as has been stated, have to be sponsored by a company which is willing to spend the money to try to convince the Spanish govt that there is _absolutely no-one _who doesn't need a work visa who can do the job

if you check with your sister she is only allowed to stay here for a fixed time period too - that will also show that she doesn't have a work/resident visa

it's simple - if you go to Madrid as a tourist, you can take a course - what you _can't _do legally is work - & once here, you _can't _apply for a work visa without returning to the US


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## 213979 (Apr 11, 2013)

baldilocks said:


> Just console yourself with the thought that it is far harder the other way round - i.e. to get into the US


I can't console myself when it directly affects my life. It was going to take OH approximately $1,000 and eight months to get him into the country. It took me a few weeks and, if I remember right, less than 60€. Despite the financial crisis, guess where we're living?


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## zenkarma (Feb 15, 2013)

baldilocks said:


> Just console yourself with the thought that it is far harder the other way round - i.e. to get into the US


Quite so Baldilocks, quite so. It's actually virtually impossible, I looked into it many years ago when I was a young buck and thought the world was my oyster, only it wasn't where the USA was concerned.

Which is why I have little sympathy for the OP and his plight. He thinks he's found a loophole to by-pass the system, only the system is somewhat more robust than he thinks, which is why he's becoming frustrated with it. It's designed that way!

The bottom line is as others have already said. No-one's going to sponsor a non-EU citizen for such work when there are already so many qualified and skilled EU citizens available to do the work.


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## crispbeans (Feb 29, 2012)

zenkarma said:


> Quite so Baldilocks, quite so. It's actually virtually impossible, I looked into it many years ago when I was a young buck and thought the world was my oyster, only it wasn't where the USA was concerned.
> 
> Which is why I have little sympathy for the OP and his plight. He thinks he's found a loophole to by-pass the system, only the system is somewhat more robust than he thinks, which is why he's becoming frustrated with it. It's designed that way!
> 
> The bottom line is as others have already said. No-one's going to sponsor a non-EU citizen for such work when there are already so many qualified and skilled EU citizens available to do the work.


It sounds like you're judging me on the fact that I'm from the USA and you couldn't come here years ago when you were young? That's hardly fair. A loophole? No...I researched this topic exhaustively and everything pointed to the perfect legality of applying for a student visa under my conditions. If anyone is to blame, it's the robust system you speak of, and I'd hardly call a system robust which neglects to post important information on its website. 

Plus, it's not like I'm trying to go to Spain and steal jobs from EU members or the Spanish people. Teaching English as a foreign language is a rapidly growing industry worldwide and there should be plenty of room for employing those who speak American English in addition to any other English dialect in demand. In fact, the underground market in Spain speaks for itself, don't you think? It would seem to me that bringing in more Americans would greatly boost the economy. But I am just a young guy and maybe dreaming too big. I realize it's a losing battle. I'm just ranting because you're right. I'm frustrated! I've lost a lot of money and time and it sucks!

:typing:


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## crispbeans (Feb 29, 2012)

xabiachica said:


> the course needs to recognised & accredited by the govt in order for you get a student visa - this course clearly isn't


The course I'm taking is accredited by EDI and is a company based in England.


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## 213979 (Apr 11, 2013)

Amigo, I keep writing and deleting my replies. So, I'm going to keep it simple. 

Ditch the ranting and look at other options. We're Americans, it's TOUGH to get a visa to live or work abroad if you don't have the right gig. Why? Well, it's been brought up by many other posters in this thread - our _querido_ government isn't all that flexible when it comes to immigration either. 

I'd look into the programs I mentioned earlier. They are going to be the most painless way of *legally* working.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

crispbeans said:


> The course I'm taking is accredited by EDI and is a company based in England.


which has absolutely nothing to do with the Spanish government accepting it as a valid course for issuing a student visa - as you have already found out

just because it might be a 'real' qualification, it simply doesn't fulfil the govt requirements for a student visa


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

crispbeans said:


> It sounds like you're judging me on the fact that I'm from the USA and you couldn't come here years ago when you were young? That's hardly fair. A loophole? No...I researched this topic exhaustively and everything pointed to the perfect legality of applying for a student visa under my conditions. If anyone is to blame, it's the robust system you speak of, and I'd hardly call a system robust which neglects to post important information on its website.
> 
> Plus, it's not like I'm trying to go to Spain and steal jobs from EU members or the Spanish people. Teaching English as a foreign language is a rapidly growing industry worldwide and there should be plenty of room for employing those who speak American English in addition to any other English dialect in demand. In fact, the underground market in Spain speaks for itself, don't you think? It would seem to me that bringing in more Americans would greatly boost the economy. But I am just a young guy and maybe dreaming too big. I realize it's a losing battle. I'm just ranting because you're right. I'm frustrated! I've lost a lot of money and time and it sucks!
> 
> :typing:


I understand your frustration and it is shared by thousands of Americans who try to come to Spain each year. I agree that a great many of those who want to come over would actually be helping the economy in some way.
I don't necessarily agree with what you write about jobs and working here in the TEFL market. As a British English teacher I've had no problem getting work here for the 25+ years that I've been here - until now. Oh I'll get work this year, but lower paid, travelling more than I want to, working hours that I don't like. Unemployment is very very bad here - over 50% in the under 26's and at an average of 25% in Spain in general. Here English is a growing market and one of the reasons is teaching to unemployed people who want to get the hell out of here and work abroad, and those people haven't got a whole lot of money. Then there's the kids market - flourishing for a variety of reasons, but not a lot of money to be spent there either. The "underground" market" as you call it (I suppose you mean working illegally and cash in hand) does indeed speak for itself!!
Anyway, how about getting in touch with American organisations/ schools to see what they require and how they recruit their staff. Also what qualifications are needed/ recognised
International (American) Institute, Madrid. Been going for donkey's years. I believe they only employ Americans
.: International Institute :.
THE INTERNATIONAL INSTITUTE
Another well established American Academy
Academia de Inglés en Madrid: American Language Academy

These people should know a bit about living and working in Madrid from the American point of view
American Club of Madrid | Celebrating over 60 years of tradition

Americans in Madrid ? American expats in Madrid | InterNations.org

American Women's Club

If you find out anything new, let us know!


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## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

crispbeans said:


> It sounds like you're judging me on the fact that I'm from the USA and you couldn't come here years ago when you were young? That's hardly fair. A loophole? No...I researched this topic exhaustively and everything pointed to the perfect legality of applying for a student visa under my conditions. If anyone is to blame, it's the robust system you speak of, and I'd hardly call a system robust which neglects to post important information on its website.
> 
> Plus, it's not like I'm trying to go to Spain and steal jobs from EU members or the Spanish people. Teaching English as a foreign language is a rapidly growing industry worldwide and there should be plenty of room for employing those who speak American English in addition to any other English dialect in demand. In fact, the underground market in Spain speaks for itself, don't you think? It would seem to me that bringing in more Americans would greatly boost the economy. But I am just a young guy and maybe dreaming too big. I realize it's a losing battle. I'm just ranting because you're right. I'm frustrated! I've lost a lot of money and time and it sucks!
> 
> :typing:


The problem isn't really anything to do with the program or with your nationality. You have to think like a bureaucrat - and over and above that, you have to think like a European/Spanish bureaucrat.

The fact that you're applying for a student visa for a course which doesn't require one says one thing: you're planning on sticking around for more than the 90 days you're permitted on a Schengen tourist visa. That's a huge red flag to a consular official.

The unemployment rate in Spain speaks for itself - last I heard it was something on the order of 25% overall and twice that for those under age 35 or so. Young Spaniards are emigrating to Germany to find work, so English teaching isn't nearly as popular as it once was. (And to boot, the German employers are actually offering German lessons in many cases - at least for the scientific types.)

You'd probably do better to take a TEFL class in the US and then try job hunting (in Spain or elsewhere) to see what the prospects are. The school in Spain is trying to fill its enrollment, and that's why they claim they will "guarantee" you a contract. There are very few English teaching jobs where employers can justify sponsoring a non-EU candidate for a work visa. Sponsoring a work visa is another bureaucratic nightmare for an employer, and not exactly free of cost. Ideally, it might be nice to have a few teachers with American accents, but generally they can find those among the population of foreigners married to Spaniards - and if they can't, folks will get by with a proper British accent just fine.

Believe me, I understand your frustration. I was thrown out of France after marrying a French national and doing as the consulate in Germany had advised me. Turns out, however, the consulate was dead wrong. (OK, I didn't leave and it eventually got sorted out - but it took almost 2 years and being a ******* really isn't fun.) It has nothing to do with you or with the course you want to take. It's the way the laws are written and how the bureaucrats are taught to administer the laws. (And yes, it's probably worse for those poor souls who want to come to the US to live and work.)
Cheers,
Bev


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## crispbeans (Feb 29, 2012)

xabiachica said:


> which has absolutely nothing to do with the Spanish government accepting it as a valid course for issuing a student visa - as you have already found out
> 
> just because it might be a 'real' qualification, it simply doesn't fulfil the govt requirements for a student visa


Sorry, I'm confused. I guess I don't know what you mean when you say the course has to be recognized and accredited by the Spanish government. The consulate officials told me the visa was refused because of the duration of the program (it wasn't long enough to warrant a student visa). They didn't say anything about the type of course or its accreditation.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Bevdeforges said:


> The problem isn't really anything to do with the program or with your nationality. You have to think like a bureaucrat - and over and above that, you have to think like a European/Spanish bureaucrat.
> 
> The fact that you're applying for a student visa for a course which doesn't require one says one thing: you're planning on sticking around for more than the 90 days you're permitted on a Schengen tourist visa. That's a huge red flag to a consular official.
> 
> ...


Actually unemployment is worse than that!

It seems to me that TEFL in Spain is still strong, but the client is changing, and there's not so much money around. You were never going to get rich teaching English. Now you might not make enough to make a living from. Cetain markets are growing and others are shrinking, so may be the number of clients is the same, but the money to be made is potentially less.

Before the OP invests money in a course I would advise her/ him to find out what the real possibility is of getting a work visa in Spain, if that is where he/ she wants to be. Personally, I think that as a TEFL teacher there is little chance. There is a chance of getting a place on the student/ recent graduate assistant teaching programme in state schools that elenetxu wrote about, for which you don't need a teaching qualification. However, the vast amount of these assistants now also come from the UK and Ireland


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## crispbeans (Feb 29, 2012)

Just wanted to drop this here to get your opinion on this wording...

Traveling to Spain | Embassy of the United States Spain
This is from the US Embassy Spain page, if you scroll down a bit, the wording says: 

"*Residency and work permits*

American citizens wanting to study, reside, or work in Spain must obtain the appropriate visa from the *Spanish Embassy* or *Consulate in their state/country of last residence.* After the visa has been issued, foreigners have three months to apply for the corresponding permit with the Spanish authorities in Spain."

To me it sounds like I might be able to obtain the visa (if all of the other stuff goes through ok) from the Spanish Embassy in Madrid? Does anyone know anything about this?


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## kalohi (May 6, 2012)

There is no Spanish Embassy in Madrid. Countries only have embassies in countries other than their own.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

crispbeans said:


> Just wanted to drop this here to get your opinion on this wording...
> 
> Traveling to Spain | Embassy of the United States Spain
> This is from the US Embassy Spain page, if you scroll down a bit, the wording says:
> ...


as said - there are no Spanish Embassies in Spain


it's clear that you have to get the *visa* from your home country before you come to Spain, & once you have the visa you can come to Spain & then they issue the permit which corresponds to the visa, at the extranjería

if you don't already have the visa you won't get the permit - simple

I really think you're clutching at straws here - why not look into one of the schemes suggested my elenextu or PeskyWesky - they are legitimate & you can get a student visa that way


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## crispbeans (Feb 29, 2012)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Actually unemployment is worse than that!
> ...
> Before the OP invests money in a course I would advise her/ him to find out what the real possibility is of getting a work visa in Spain, if that is where he/ she wants to be. Personally, I think that as a TEFL teacher there is little chance. There is a chance of getting a place on the student/ recent graduate assistant teaching programme in state schools that elenetxu wrote about, for which you don't need a teaching qualification. However, the vast amount of these assistants now also come from the UK and Ireland


I've definitely heard it's bad over there and I truly feel for everyone who is struggling to find work. I myself was just laid off at a university because of budget cuts, so I know how it goes. I was in Spain last year for a couple months and I learned a lot about the crisis first hand. Unemployment was bad then and I think it's even worse now. 

My sister has been doing one of the assistant teaching programs on a student visa, 20 hours a week. She tells me she mostly works with other Americans, so I know it's doable. I may eventually look into a more legit programs like hers. Really though, I just wanted to come to Spain for a year, hang out with my sister, meet people and make enough to get by on, and meanwhile get the TEFL to improve my chances of getting hired as a teacher in other countries, should I choose to follow that path.


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## zenkarma (Feb 15, 2013)

crispbeans said:


> To me it sounds like I might be able to obtain the visa (if all of the other stuff goes through ok) from the Spanish Embassy in Madrid? Does anyone know anything about this?


At what point did you ever have *legal Spanish Residence*? The key words in that sentence are *...in their state/country of last residence.* The word residence there is referring to legal resident, in other words where you are legally entitled to reside. 

You are not legally entitled to reside in Spain, you are an American Resident, that is the place of your last legal residence. So that's where you have to apply from.


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## crispbeans (Feb 29, 2012)

xabiachica said:


> I really think you're clutching at straws here


You're right. It's 2:30 am and I should be sleeping instead of making brain farts. 
:bolt:


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

crispbeans said:


> Just wanted to drop this here to get your opinion on this wording...
> 
> Traveling to Spain | Embassy of the United States Spain
> This is from the US Embassy Spain page, if you scroll down a bit, the wording says:
> ...


Have just read that website - it seems as though in your haste and desire to make your point you have forgotten how to read English:


> "Should you be considering a stay in Spain longer than three months you should inquire with the Spanish embassy or consulate near your place of residence outside of Spain prior to entry. "


"Outside Spain" is pretty clear that it must be done before you come and not once you are here.


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## crispbeans (Feb 29, 2012)

zenkarma said:


> At what point did you ever have *legal Spanish Residence*? The key words in that sentence are *...in their state/country of last residence.* The word residence there is referring to legal resident, in other words where you are legally entitled to reside.
> 
> You are not legally entitled to reside in Spain, you are an American Resident, that is the place of your last legal residence. So that's where you have to apply from.


I did make a mistake in that previous post. There isn't a Spanish Embassy in Spain. My bad. My point was on the word *OR* but that doesn't really matter, unless that means I can go to Washington to apply rather than having to fly all the way back to the west coast. Who knows.


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## staceystump (Jul 2, 2013)

Hello;

I'm just curious with the unemployment being so high in spain do you think you can get a good paying job? A job that is good enough to support yourself, rent, food etc. Why don't you get a job in the states, save up money, then go to Spain.

Just Asking!


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