# confusion about paying tax estimates for 2012



## Mona Lisa76 (Mar 10, 2011)

I would be grateful if anyone, particularly Bev, could clarify if I actually need to pay two separate checks: first of all, as my accountant is now hospitalized indefinitely, I will now have to deal with applying for a filing extension plus paying my estimate for 2012 (around $5000!!). I'd originally hoped she could arrange to issue me the dollar checks as I have no US bank accounts.

What I need clarification concerns their instructing me to include a check with the 4868 filing extension form where I write '2011 4868' vs another instruction on the 2012 estimate vouchers which instruct me to write '2012 1040-ES'. I'm thus assuming that the accounting firm thinks I still need to make a n estimated payment for 2011 (also around $5000)!! They had led me to believe that they had issued a check for my 2011 estimates last June but as the 4868 form asks for a check with 2011 written on it makes me think that they got mixed up and never sent the 2011 estimated payment off.

It gets very confusing. Bev, could you please clarify the difference concerning the instructions for writing checks with the 4868 vs 2012 estimate voucher (1040-es). I am grateful if you can explain this because my firm are too busy to answer my calls or emails. They assume we already know what to do. Because it's only her assistants in her office right now, they aren't able to confirm whether they had credited my check last year towards 2011 but urgently need to file for an extension before the 17 april deadline but 4868 needs all this info. Firm unreachable due to accountant's hospitalisation, plus Easter, plus tax season.


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## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

The check you submit with your request for an extension is to pay off whatever your 2011 tax due might be. Once you file the final 2011 return, you'll get back any overpayment (i.e. a "tax refund") if you've sent too much. You need to do this because, if you owe taxes (or are likely to), interest starts to accrue from the original filing deadline - in this case, April 17th 2012 - for any amounts due.

The 1040-ES checks for 2012 are quarterly estimated payments of what you think you might owe for 2012. When you file your 2012 return (i.e. in April 2013), you compare what you ultimately owe to what you've already paid, and if you've overpaid, you get back the difference.

Publication 505 - Tax Withholding and Estimated Tax - How To Figure Estimated Tax for more information. It's the estimated tax section of publication 505, which you can download for yourself from the IRS website if you prefer having it all together in printable form.
Cheers,
Bev


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## Mona Lisa76 (Mar 10, 2011)

Hi Bev, thank you for getting back so quicly! So just to clarify things, I need to find out if my accountant paid anything towards 2011 and then pay what I believe is the difference (or the entire estimate if they haven't).

I guess I also have to make a payment for 2012 too. 

But to clarify, can I still file for the extension even if I can't make any payment with it before the deadline next week?


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## AmTaker (Aug 17, 2011)

Mona Lisa76 said:


> Hi Bev, thank you for getting back so quicly! So just to clarify things, I need to find out if my accountant paid anything towards 2011 and then pay what I believe is the difference (or the entire estimate if they haven't).
> 
> I guess I also have to make a payment for 2012 too.
> 
> But to clarify, can I still file for the extension even if I can't make any payment with it before the deadline next week?


You don't even need to explicitly apply for the extension, have 2 months extra if you reside outside the US. Even if you resided within the US, you get an automatic extension. The only reason to file an extension is if you are sending a payment too ( I think).


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## Mona Lisa76 (Mar 10, 2011)

AmTaker said:


> You don't even need to explicitly apply for the extension, have 2 months extra if you reside outside the US. Even if you resided within the US, you get an automatic extension. The only reason to file an extension is if you are sending a payment too ( I think).


Thing is, my accountant doesn't rush things especially as her injury will be setting her back by at least a few months...she probably won't be able to finish my return till at least October if not later. She's also got assistants but there are a large number of PFICs that will require 8621s. Hopefully 2011 will be my last really complicated year.


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## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

AmTaker said:


> You don't even need to explicitly apply for the extension, have 2 months extra if you reside outside the US. Even if you resided within the US, you get an automatic extension. The only reason to file an extension is if you are sending a payment too ( I think).


Almost - yes, Mona Lisa 76 is subject to the automatic extension for taxpayers living overseas. So technically, her return isn't due until June 15th. That takes some of the pressure off.

The estimated payment needs to be made by April 17th, however, to avoid having to pay interest on any taxes due once the return is filed.

If she won't be able to get the return in until after June 15th, she needs to file for an extension (which usually involves sending in a check for your 4th quarter estimate with it). Pub 54 includes information about filing extensions when you're filing from overseas.
Cheers,
Bev


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## Mona Lisa76 (Mar 10, 2011)

Bev, I understand that but still need to know if I also have to have made my first quarterly estimated payment for tax year 2012 though? Confusing. I wasn't sure if I'll face interest if I waited till, say, June and sent the first and second quarterly estimated payments together.


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## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

If you have income for 2012 in the first quarter, then yes, you should make your first quarterly estimated payment.
Cheers,
Bev


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