# The latest political scandal



## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

This is why the Spanish government wanted people to declare their offshore assets.

Political corruption behind fortune held by ex-Catalan premier's son, police say | In English | EL PAÍS

Jordi Pujol, leader of Catalunya for 23 years, has confessed to keeping millions in tax havens, and has only "come clean" to take the heat off his seven children. But it looks like the whole family is mired in corruption, with some of that fortune coming from dodgy deals.

The news has gone down particularly well in Andalucia because in 1976 Pujol, a founder of the Catalán independence movement, basically called them a bunch of ignorant anarchists with no roots or sense of community.




> El hombre andaluz no es un hombre coherente, es un hombre anárquico. Es un hombre destruido [...], es generalmente un hombre poco hecho, un hombre que hace cientos de años que pasa hambre y que vive en un estado de ignorancia y de miseria cultural, mental y espiritual. Es un hombre desarraigado, incapaz de tener un sentido un poco amplio de comunidad.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Alcalaina said:


> This is why the Spanish government wanted people to declare their offshore assets.
> 
> Political corruption behind fortune held by ex-Catalan premier's son, police say | In English | EL PAÍS
> 
> ...



I've been glued to the TV all morning watching interviews about this


scandalous that he did it, scandalous that he got away with it for so long - & yes, the entire family is implicated


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

I saw the press reports and thought it can only be a matter of time before a politician who isn't corrupt and hasn't got millions stashed away which they haven't declared to the taxman makes the headlines. At least it would make a more unusual story.

I fear this will just be another of the interminable investigations and court cases that drag on for many years and at the end of it nothing more than a slap on the wrist is handed down. 

It would be better if these people's entire assets were confiscated (without the facility for them to claim everything belongs to their wife/husband/children).


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)




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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

There has been so much corruption everywhere....PP, PSOE, IU, UGT, numerous businesses...many ordinary Spaniards seem to see it as 'normal'.
I went to a meeting last week where the current PP's administration's policy of putting all of its previous direct works out to tender was discussed. Every single one has gone to one local company, previously a medium-sized construction business.
It was taken for granted that someone or some people in the administration had personally benefited from this. When I expressed a slight doubt that this could be done so blatantly I was told that I had been in Spain long enough and should know how things are done.
At least this development with Pujol might put the fears of some immigrants worried about their assets to rest.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Lynn R said:


> I saw the press reports and thought it can only be a matter of time before a politician who isn't corrupt and hasn't got millions stashed away which they haven't declared to the taxman makes the headlines. At least it would make a more unusual story.
> 
> I fear this will just be another of the interminable investigations and court cases that drag on for many years and at the end of it nothing more than a slap on the wrist is handed down.
> 
> It would be better if these people's entire assets were confiscated (without the facility for them to claim everything belongs to their wife/husband/children).


But Carlos Fabra (Valencia) and Jaume Matas (Baleares) have had rather more than a slap on the wrist - they're both in prison!

Things are definitely changing.


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

Alcalaina said:


> But Carlos Fabra (Valencia) and Jaume Matas (Baleares) have had rather more than a slap on the wrist - they're both in prison!
> 
> Things are definitely changing.


But what will they have to come out to when they've served whatever reduced portion of their sentences they actually spend inside? How much of their ill gotten gains and unpaid taxes have been seized back from them? I believe that would affect such people (and send a stronger message to others) than a small amount of jail time. It's not as though they'll be needing to find a job after they come out, when having a conviction would harm their chances, is it? And I believe it would not prevent a politician running for office again in the future, unbelievably.

I'd seriously like to see these people thrown onto the street - that would be the type of desahucio that wouldn't bother me one bit.


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## mickbcn (Feb 4, 2013)

We the catalan independentist must give thanks to our spanish "friends"because they are giving us the dirty job of clean the future government of Catalonia,and we are sure that in the nex 3 month (104 days exactly)they look even under the stones to find corrupts here in Catalonia, thanks Spain!!!


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## mickbcn (Feb 4, 2013)

xabiachica said:


>


http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l110/blaque_07/JordiPujol.jpg


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## mickbcn (Feb 4, 2013)

Aviso de redirección


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## mickbcn (Feb 4, 2013)

http://www.parecidosrazonables.com/parecidos_razonables/281.jpg


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Lynn R said:


> But what will they have to come out to when they've served whatever reduced portion of their sentences they actually spend inside? How much of their ill gotten gains and unpaid taxes have been seized back from them? I believe that would affect such people (and send a stronger message to others) than a small amount of jail time. It's not as though they'll be needing to find a job after they come out, when having a conviction would harm their chances, is it? And I believe it would not prevent a politician running for office again in the future, unbelievably.
> 
> I'd seriously like to see these people thrown onto the street - that would be the type of desahucio that wouldn't bother me one bit.


I'd go beyond that, I'd put them in the stocks! 

Yes, Fabra was re-elected leader of Valencia even after being found guilty and awaiting appeal.

I did see a news item somewhere that the confiscated funds from a mayor found guilty of corruption were going to be used to improve the town. Can't remember where though.

It's not enough, and there's a long way to go, but the important thing is that even as recently as ten years ago these people never dreamed they would get caught, let alone found guilty.


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

Alcalaina said:


> I'd go beyond that, I'd put them in the stocks!
> 
> Yes, Fabra was re-elected leader of Valencia even after being found guilty and awaiting appeal.
> 
> ...


Yes, I suppose it's a start, but it does gall me to see these trials dragging on for years on end (at massive cost to the public purse, I'm sure). And for what, in the end? I see Jaume Matas was originally sentenced to six years - reduced to nine months and 1 day on appeal. How long will he actually be in prison - a third of that, maybe? It's a joke, really. And he gets to pretty much choose when he starts his sentence, driving up to the prison in a private vehicle with his lawyer - no doubt having spent the intervening period putting his assets beyond the reach of Hacienda. 

These are not men of honour - the crimes they've been convicted of prove that. Therefore a short prison sentence will not shame them. Taking away their financial assets and handing them over to the country they've robbed would be the most suitable punishment, IMO. If that were done it wouldn't bother me if they didn't spend a single day in prison - in fact that would save the country some more money.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Lynn R said:


> Yes, I suppose it's a start, but it does gall me to see these trials dragging on for years on end (at massive cost to the public purse, I'm sure). And for what, in the end? I see Jaume Matas was originally sentenced to six years - reduced to nine months and 1 day on appeal. How long will he actually be in prison - a third of that, maybe? It's a joke, really. And he gets to pretty much choose when he starts his sentence, driving up to the prison in a private vehicle with his lawyer - no doubt having spent the intervening period putting his assets beyond the reach of Hacienda.
> 
> These are not men of honour - the crimes they've been convicted of prove that. Therefore a short prison sentence will not shame them. Taking away their financial assets and handing them over to the country they've robbed would be the most suitable punishment, IMO. If that were done it wouldn't bother me if they didn't spend a single day in prison - in fact that would save the country some more money.


But given that half of them are elected representatives, or relatives thereof, they aren't going to pass a law to confiscate their own assets .. 

Do you think the new PSOE regime could be a force for change?


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

Alcalaina said:


> But given that half of them are elected representatives, or relatives thereof, they aren't going to pass a law to confiscate their own assets ..
> 
> Do you think the new PSOE regime could be a force for change?


I would love to think so, but the whole corruption/tax evasion thing seems so endemic at all levels in this society (and not just amongst politicians) that I doubt it.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Back in The UK, Bank of England Governor Mark Carney has said that the Lloyds guys who ripped of the Treasury are criminals and should be prosecuted.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Lynn R said:


> I would love to think so, but the whole corruption/tax evasion thing seems so endemic at all levels in this society (and not just amongst politicians) that I doubt it.


I think you're being overly pessimistic. The electorate are far more aware of the scale of the problem now. While they might have turned a blind eye before the recession, because the whole country was on a roll, now there is a huge groundswell of anger. 

The new PSOE leader Pedro Sanchez has openly declared a zero tolerance policy within his own party, as has Susana Diaz in Andalucia. They have to win a lot of votes back from Podemos etc by 2016, so I expect a few more heads to roll before then to show they mean business.


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

Alcalaina said:


> I think you're being overly pessimistic. The electorate are far more aware of the scale of the problem now. While they might have turned a blind eye before the recession, because the whole country was on a roll, now there is a huge groundswell of anger.
> 
> The new PSOE leader Pedro Sanchez has openly declared a zero tolerance policy within his own party, as has Susana Diaz in Andalucia. They have to win a lot of votes back from Podemos etc by 2016, so I expect a few more heads to roll before then to show they mean business.


I look forward to seeing them roll.


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

mrypg9 said:


> Back in The UK, Bank of England Governor Mark Carney has said that the Lloyds guys who ripped of the Treasury are criminals and should be prosecuted.


I completely agree. It's the same there as it is here - one law for the rich, another for the poor. Wasn't it Warren Buffett who said you can steal far more with a pen (or a computer, I suppose) than you can with a gun?


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Lynn R said:


> I would love to think so, but the whole corruption/tax evasion thing seems so endemic at all levels in this society (and not just amongst politicians) that I doubt it.


No-one has clean hands but I do have faith in Sanchez. He was my choice for Leader although I do worry that he may have Blair-like latent tendencies. 

But yes, as I said in an earlier post, it's not the prevalence of corruption but expressing surprise at it that evokes a response.

No way is UK local government an exemplar of efficient decision-making but in all the years of my involvement at Town, County and District level I came across not one single hint or suspicion of corruption.

I think this passive acceptance of it has to do with lack of civil society. It was the same in the Czech Republic. Actually, I think it was and is worse there because in Spain, as Alca says, decent people in positions of power are saying Ya basta!


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Lynn R said:


> I completely agree. It's the same there as it is here - one law for the rich, another for the poor. Wasn't it Warren Buffett who said you can steal far more with a pen (or a computer, I suppose) than you can with a gun?


It was Woodie Guthrie originally - "Some will rob you with a six-gun and some with a fountain pen".


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