# Help! Utterly confused. Considering moving my family to Spain or France. Craving insi



## weneedtomove (Jun 11, 2016)

Help! Utterly confused. Considering moving my family to Spain or France. Craving insight from those who've done it! 

We're an English family of 4 with 2 kids (12 and 7) and 2 dogs. We've been craving life in a warmer climate for years. We're very unsettled here in Doncaster! We love travel, new cultures, people, places and food.

We plan to move in 12-18 months time and learn the language of our chosen country between now and then. In France we've visited Provence and Dordogne - loved both. In Spain we've visited Marbella, Estepona, San Pedro, Mijas - quite a bit of that area. We love that too! 

We plan to put the kids into an International School - at least for the first couple of years and see how that goes. Our eldest is in private school now and the other is in state school for the time being. We think they will settle relatively easily as they are fairly confident kids. 

We plan to rent for 12 months while we explore and learn about our new home. Then, if we settle, we will buy. 

We are unsure which country offers the best solution. We hear people say the French are generally less welcoming to expats / more frosty but I have not experienced this personally during our holidays there. Does anyone have any experience of integrating into a French community? 

We hear the Spanish are warmer and more sociable. Spain has the better winters but summers seem stifling - not sure how our kids / dogs would cope with the heat. 

France seems to offer much more property for your money but has colder winters. Climate is a big thing for us. I am not sure if the longer, warmer summers in France would make the winters seem less of a hardship. How bad are the winters in the middle/south of France? 

We want to be close to sea and / or mountains ideally.

The dilemma is how the hell to choose out of all the possible towns and cities without visiting them all which is not practical! Hence we're reaching out for some opinions that might help and guide us. 

Access to good schooling is obviously important and we need a home with a garden and room for the dogs to exercise as well as a pool. We realise this means we need to live a little outside the towns/cities. But we don't want to be a long trek from schools and entertainment. Rent budget is probably up to 1,800 Euros per month. Purchase budget would be up to 600k ish, maybe a bit more if necessary.

Help!!!!! Any advice would be greatly appreciated. 

A puzzled.....but enthusiastic, would be expat family.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

weneedtomove said:


> Help! Utterly confused. Considering moving my family to Spain or France. Craving insight from those who've done it!
> 
> We're an English family of 4 with 2 kids (12 and 7) and 2 dogs. We've been craving life in a warmer climate for years. We're very unsettled here in Doncaster! We love travel, new cultures, people, places and food.
> 
> ...


helloooo!
Well, you've got about 101 questions here so I'll try to get the ball rolling on a couple of them
The question of climate very much depends on where you are in Spain. It's a very big country (compared to the UK) and has a lot of coastline and mountain ranges and this will affect the climate just as much as hours of sunshine do. Some areas can be very humid (Tarragona, Valencia, Nerja...)I suppose you get used to it, but humid heat = difficult heat to me. I can take 36º in Madrid no problem (very dry) but 35º in Valencia and I'm crawling around at a snail's pace.
Altitude affects temperature and that needs to be taken into consideration. I live at 880m and the summer nights are usually tempered by a delicious breeze.
The heat is unbearable in many places in the summer. I certainly avoid Madrid like the plague in July and August, but from Madrid upwards the temperatures are far more reasonable - hotter than the UK but not searing or at least not for long. Spain is not only Andalucia and all the regions deserve a good look round. 
The only way to choose is to come and try out yourselves, You already have an idea of some things you want/ don't want so you've got to try it out and build on that.
Whilst the idea of learning the language is great the idea of 


> We plan to move in 12-18 months time and learn the language of our chosen country between now and then.


Is not realistic for most people. Take classes and learn as much as you can, but you almost certainly won't "learn the language" in that time period. What do you want to be able to do with the language? Go to a reastaurant? Go to the doctors? Speak to your children's teachers? work in an office? Your 7 year old should be the quickest in picking it up if he's happy and makes friends.
A quick word on schools... If you wanted the 7 year old could probably go to state school. I'm not saying it would all be plain sailing. The most likely scenario is that it would take him a while to be able convers naturally with his classmates and he might get bored in lessons he doesn't understand, but he would probably get to a working level (ie not everything correct, but able to communicate) in months.
However, you'd have to see how that worked out with the older child going to private with transport, timetables, brotherly love etc
Lastly you haven't mentioned the biggie
Work...


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## ccm472 (Jan 6, 2016)

Anywhere on the South Coast of England would give you a much better climate than Doncaster, and you wouldn't need to learn another language.
The French do like you to make the effort. Spain too.
Children at school will help you integrate much quicker than if you are a couple on your own. French education is very competitive, fail to succeed and the child has to do the same year again. School exam results are published in the local paper. The subject that is considered hardest is philosophy, and for certain higher education its considered an essential as it proves one can think, in the right way. Spanish education, is I feel less judgemental but I know only a couple of youngsters who went through the system. 
Continental geography dictates that the land mass gives hot summers and cold winters. Thus Madrid can have both. France has a number of very long rivers which flow into the Atlantic, these river valleys have their own micro climates which make the seasons more temperate and crops grow well. Snow is a rarity in the flood plains. Brittany enjoys the benefits of the gulf stream. Yes rain comes in from the west but this gives crops a chance to grow in both countries.
600 k in most of France and Spain would buy you a mansion. Unless you need to employ staff to maintain your lifestyle, why bother? 300k will buy you somewhere really nice, with no work, a pool and almost certainly some land. My friends in Murcia province rented a house from their architect friend which was featured on a TV programme, all very modern, eco friendly, sea views, infinity pool, 4 beds, 3 garages etc. At one time he was told it was worth 500k, now he'd be grateful for 300k and as the family have grown up they've moved into town. Nobody has taken over the lease either. Stay away from the French coast and major cities such as Bordeaux, and you'll get similar but with an acre or two and additional storage buildings too. France does publish a regional price per m2 guide.
As an ex teacher I'd start to whittle down my choices by thinking about the educational values of the two countries and work from there.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

ccm472 said:


> Anywhere on the South Coast of England would give you a much better climate than Doncaster, and you wouldn't need to learn another language.
> The French do like you to make the effort. Spain too.
> Children at school will help you integrate much quicker than if you are a couple on your own.
> That's true
> ...


---


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## weneedtomove (Jun 11, 2016)

Pesky Wesky said:


> helloooo!
> Well, you've got about 101 questions here so I'll try to get the ball rolling on a couple of them
> The question of climate very much depends on where you are in Spain. It's a very big country (compared to the UK) and has a lot of coastline and mountain ranges and this will affect the climate just as much as hours of sunshine do. Some areas can be very humid (Tarragona, Valencia, Nerja...)I suppose you get used to it, but humid heat = difficult heat to me. I can take 36º in Madrid no problem (very dry) but 35º in Valencia and I'm crawling around at a snail's pace.
> Altitude affects temperature and that needs to be taken into consideration. I live at 880m and the summer nights are usually tempered by a delicious breeze.
> ...


This is wonderful advice, thank you! I had a hunch that our 7 year old would roll with the language more quickly. Our 12-18 months language tuition is just intended to give us a foundation, I understand that reaching any kind of fluency won't happen until we've been there and integrated for some time. To begin with, the objective is not to turn up ignorant of the language and to be able to get by in basic conversation. 

I was not aware of the humidity you mentioned in Valencia and Nerja. This is useful to know as those are two areas we have looked at. Thanks again!


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## weneedtomove (Jun 11, 2016)

Again, fabulous advice and insight. I've looked at a few french properties and the value for money is staggering! We definitely don't need a mansion. 

We were looking at Murcia last night. The house you mention sounds interesting. We've visiting quite a bit of the Costa Del Sol but never been over to the Murcia province. I think we will plan a trip there for a few days and see how it compares. Visit the international school(s) at the same time. 

Thank you!


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

weneedtomove said:


> Again, fabulous advice and insight. I've looked at a few french properties and the value for money is staggering! We definitely don't need a mansion.
> 
> We were looking at Murcia last night. The house you mention sounds interesting. We've visiting quite a bit of the Costa Del Sol but never been over to the Murcia province. I think we will plan a trip there for a few days and see how it compares. Visit the international school(s) at the same time.
> 
> Thank you!


Hurry up to visit schools, or at least schools with children still in them. Term finishes at the end of June. State schools are open all through July and the offices will be open but you'll see very few teaching staff around and even fewer pupils (although there maybe summer schools going on in both systems, but those are not run by year round staff)


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

OH!
And you need to be aware of school time tables which may vay quite a lot and are quite complicated. Most privates or semi privates (concertados, the concept doesn't really exist in the UK) go from 9ish to 17:00ish. 
State primary schools may have "jornada intensivo" which means they don't go to school in the afternoon.
If they have a normal timetable it's usually 9:00 - 16:00 with lunch at school or at home if you prefer.
However, in September and June this timetable is usually different and again they don't go to school in the afternoon and may start earlier in the morning!
The state secondary school is very different from the UK - 8:30/ 8:45 - 14:30/ 15:00 with no lunch. Meals are not provided, but 99% of secondary shools have cafeterias, however, most children go home for lunch, which will almost be teatime for a British kid at first!!


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

weneedtomove said:


> I was not aware of the humidity you mentioned in Valencia and Nerja. This is useful to know as those are two areas we have looked at. Thanks again!


I live not very far from Nerja, and I don't consider the climate to be overly humid (although Pesky Wesky, living in a particularly dry area, may have found it so). In fact it is less humid than Valencia and the surrounding areas. Average humidity levels (and other weather-related information) can be seen on this website:-

https://weather-and-climate.com/average-monthly-Rainfall-Temperature-Sunshine,nerja,Spain

What Nerja does not have, however, is any international schools. There is only one anywhere along that part of the coast, which is in Almuñecar, about a 20 minute drive to the East of Nerja.


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## thrax (Nov 13, 2008)

There are, of course, a wealth of International and private schools from Malaga to Rincon but they do have varying standards so much research is needed! Our son goes to a state school and is very happy there. He is as fluent in Spanish as any 6 year old native (which puts me to shame a bit but we have an agreement: he teaches me Spanish and I teach him maths and English, which seems fair). I teach maths at GCSE level and most of my students are from the International School in Almuñecar.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Lynn R said:


> I live not very far from Nerja, and I don't consider the climate to be overly humid (although Pesky Wesky, living in a particularly dry area, may have found it so). In fact it is less humid than Valencia and the surrounding areas. Average humidity levels (and other weather-related information) can be seen on this website:-
> 
> https://weather-and-climate.com/average-monthly-Rainfall-Temperature-Sunshine,nerja,Spain
> 
> What Nerja does not have, however, is any international schools. There is only one anywhere along that part of the coast, which is in Almuñecar, about a 20 minute drive to the East of Nerja.


Yes, maybe I'm just used to a dry climate. However...
OH (admittedly Basque) lived in Tarragona for 4 years and never got used to the humid heat. He used to say he turned into Hombre Pez from June - September:fish::fish:
I only told that story 'cos when else are we going to have an opportunity to use that smilie??hahaha


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