# The minimum wage



## MaidenScotland

These links make interesting reading 

Black taxi or white taxi? | Al-Masry Al-Youm: Today's News from Egypt


I did find this part shocking but not surprising 
...Osman Ahmed Osman, the Minister of Economic Planning, shockingly told the press that if it is set that high, “we’ll bring Bangladeshis who’ll work for less than LE400


Minimum wage of LE1200 too high, says state official | Al-Masry Al-Youm: Today's News from Egypt


Suicide cases on the rise throughout Egypt | Al-Masry Al-Youm: Today's News from Egypt


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## DeadGuy

LOL!!!

There was another idiot (A female this time) claiming that there is NO unemployment in Egypt few weeks before that 

Right after these 2 responsible comments, a guy had some tea with a real-less than average local guy in what appears to be a REALLY staged scene, then another 2 people (A male and a female) eating "fool" and "ta'meya" with another local family!!!

God elections is driving people madddddd in here! 

I think a 3 years old would manage to make smarter comments, at least a 3 years old wouldn't manage to say such things without laughing out loud :lol:

On another note.........I'd LOVE to see that guy trying to convince people from ANYWHERE on Earth to leave their homes and work in another country for less than 80$ a month


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## seawind77

Minimum salary issues are terrible here. In my first company(Egyptian Joint venture) They are paying salaries like 250 LE. 

But in my present company we are paying 800 LE (for 8 hours work) as starting and for simplest worker. For these reason I am getting the many factories attention and criticizing in Borg El Arab Area. 

And Egyptians are just like to talk so much. How he can bring pakistani workers. In our 100% Turkish Capital company we are in difficulties to get residence and working permits despite we are investors and how they are planning to bring workers from Pakistan.

As I always says, If I went any country like USA or European country in illegal ways and show the half of the efforts which I am spending in Egypt, not the residence, I may get the citizenship directly.


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## Horus

Minimum wage in Egypt is far less than the bums get here in the UK with all the benefits and some of them don't have any respect for that.

The neighbours across from us knocked down the party wall so they could park a car on the front lawn which later transpired was stolen, the whole family started arguing and the police got called out when his wife threw a boiling kettle of water over him and he stumbled out the house with steam coming off his back screaming, and now he can't work.

They probably get £1K plus benefits per month  much more than Egyptian police men who are out in the heat all day

People wonder why I am leaving ghetto Britain


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## samertalat

What you people want to tell me that you pay 800 Pounds which is = to $142.00 ... wowwwwww that is slavery , i can't believe it how can someone lives on this ?
How come that minimum wages are so low and things are expensive to buy , I mean food and basics .
I still can't get it in to my head , and people tell me that Egypt is a very expensive place to live??
God ..........


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## MaidenScotland

Horus said:


> Minimum wage in Egypt is far less than the bums get here in the UK with all the benefits and some of them don't have any respect for that.
> 
> The neighbours across from us knocked down the party wall so they could park a car on the front lawn which later transpired was stolen, the whole family started arguing and the police got called out when his wife threw a boiling kettle of water over him and he stumbled out the house with steam coming off his back screaming, and now he can't work.
> 
> They probably get £1K plus benefits per month  much more than Egyptian police men who are out in the heat all day
> 
> People wonder why I am leaving ghetto Britain




It is the same here ... that poor policeman doesn't get any benefits other than lead poisoning. The chap who lays up the road near the Sheraton sends his 9 children out to beg whilst he sits and sniffs glue. When you get here you want to read the court reports.. especially Caught Red Handed... stories of honour killings, acid thrown in the faces of girls that have disgraced the family and the list goes on. You are leaving Britain for better weather.. ever thing you complain about the UK is here.. but in sunshine.
This is not Utopia your money may give you a nicer life style here than it could in the U.K (but at the way prices are rising I doubt it) but Egypt is awash with social problems drugs addicts, alcoholics, glue sniffers , wife beaters, child molestation, rape.. only last week a 6 year old boy was raped in his school by 3 school boys and filmed on their camera, the headmaster erased the film and beat the boys.. punishment enough he said, prostitution, it's all here the same as the UK 
Yes I agree the social funding in the UK is all wrong.

Maiden


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## MaidenScotland

samertalat said:


> What you people want to tell me that you pay 800 Pounds which is = to $142.00 ... wowwwwww that is slavery , i can't believe it how can someone lives on this ?
> How come that minimum wages are so low and things are expensive to buy , I mean food and basics .
> I still can't get it in to my head , and people tell me that Egypt is a very expensive place to live??
> God ..........




Egypt is expensive.., two coffees and a slice of cheese cake 62LE... I can buy that cheaper in the UK... where the salaries are higher.


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## aykalam

samertalat said:


> What you people want to tell me that you pay 800 Pounds which is = to $142.00 ... wowwwwww that is slavery , i can't believe it how can someone lives on this ?
> How come that minimum wages are so low and things are expensive to buy , I mean food and basics .
> I still can't get it in to my head , and people tell me that Egypt is a very expensive place to live??
> God ..........


You call that slavery? Maintenance workers at American University in Cairo are taking home LE400. For those of you who don' know, AUC is the most expensive uni to send your children to in Egypt. (tuition fees over LE100K per year in most cases, yes really)

Check it out

Staff protest rocks AUC campus | Caravan


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## MaidenScotland

I took photograph on Friday and I am trying to get them to upload... this was of women taking rotting vegetables out of bin.. how tragic, it is.. the rich in this country should be thoroughly ashamed of themselves.. they will make a big fuss about feeding the poor at eide then they are forgotten.


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## DeadGuy

MaidenScotland said:


> I took photograph on Friday and I am trying to get them to upload... this was of women taking rotting vegetables out of bin.. how tragic, it is.. the rich in this country should be thoroughly ashamed of themselves.. they will make a big fuss about feeding the poor at eide then they are forgotten.


There's something that all of us Egyptians say all the time, "Balad bent ****** bteddy elly ma yestahelsh w elly mosh awez"! Meaning "A ***** country that rewards those who do not deserve to be rewarded, or those who don't really need to have anything else" LOL!

"Welcome to Egypt"?


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## MaidenScotland

I have witnessed people rooting through bins in the UK but it is usually because they have spent their money on drugs or alcohol and sadly we do have people who slip through the safety net. 

There is no safety net here people root through the bins because they have no money to feed their children.


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## SHendra

I knew a kid here, well he would be a young man now who could of gone onto any higher education he wanted, became anything he wanted to be(Wealthy parents and connections) Was an only child to, so was spoilt etc. Yet he threw it all away for the life of crime and drugs. It's so sad when you see so many don't even get the chances (here in Egypt) to get somewhere when you see some of the ones with the chances waste it!


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## Horus

Thanks for opening my eyes I never knew it was that bad I hope I don't come across that in Sharm  it would greatly upset me to see people going through bins...


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## MaidenScotland

SHendra said:


> I knew a kid here, well he would be a young man now who could of gone onto any higher education he wanted, became anything he wanted to be(Wealthy parents and connections) Was an only child to, so was spoilt etc. Yet he threw it all away for the life of crime and drugs. It's so sad when you see so many don't even get the chances (here in Egypt) to get somewhere when you see some of the ones with the chances waste it!




I read A 1/4 Gram, a story about the heroin problem here.. , not particularly well written not really any depth to it but it is worth a read. Silly thing is when you buy the book it is sealed so that no one can flick through it before buying, I am guessing this has to do with morality... crazy isn't it.. a big heroin problem here in the city and they are worried someone might read about it by accident.
My friends son is a recovering addict been clean for about 5 years now:clap2:


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## DeadGuy

SHendra said:


> .............
> 
> the ones with the chances waste it!


Sorry but I think the word for that is........Stupid human nature?


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## SHendra

I know it can't be easy for people to quit once they get hooked to something. So to be able to clean up is pretty good going! And 5 years is great!


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## MaidenScotland

SHendra said:


> I know it can't be easy for people to quit once they get hooked to something. So to be able to clean up is pretty good going! And 5 years is great!




Yes it really is great.. we are talking about a man in his 40s not a young boy.
My friend does laugh sometimes and says he quit heroin and found religion and there are times I don't know which is worse... she is only joking of course, it is just when Tarik gets on a rant about religion and we all have to sit and listen she wants to tell him to lighten up and have a vodka and relax


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## SHendra

Well it must be helping him in a way to keep him going strong! I hope this lad I knew finds his way off the stuff before he looses all of his chances while he's still young.


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## MensEtManus

I would say that the majority of the folks I know around here smoke up. I never imagined such a phenomenon; older guys (40s,50s,60s,etc.) still smoking up (hasheesh). Of course, all the young kids smoke up. Then the very same kids would come up to me and ask for better pay. I find it hilarious. The better pay is to buy drugs and cigs. What a waste of money.... 

There is a huge drug problem in Egypt. A few months ago, there was apparently a supply problem and people were complaining. They blamed the government. Next thing I saw was one huge writing in front of one of the major governmental agencies in Alexandria saying something along the lines of "take away anything but my hasheeh"


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## MaidenScotland

My house boy father smokes hash and has just recently given up the whisky, the man took all the money the boy and his two sister earned and bought a brand new tuk tuk.. sold it 6 weeks later for 500LE!! This is a man that has put his children to work from the age of 9 to keep him in hash.. amazing how men can always find money for what they want but their childrens bellies rumble with hunger. 
I live beside one of the main police stations so of course it can be pretty colourful around here but recently there has been a youngish women hanging around and sleeping rough on Nile st ... I have never seen her awake she has always been asleep or out of it as it looks like bags of glue scattered around. To solve the problem someone has painted the steps that she was sleeping on with a black tar substance.

Yes there was a big grumble about hash not being available.. round about Ramadan... I have no problem if someone wants to smoke hash I don't smoke nor drink but each to their own, however I do have a problem with a man smoking hash and drinking tea in a coffee shop when his childrens bellies are rumbling from hunger.


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## SHendra

I recall the supply issue when it all got took by the authorities. Many of the guys my husband knew were going out of the city to find the stuff to find it went up in value and couldn't afford to do it. It's weird how many of the ones who won't drink for religous reasons because of it effecting the mind/body goes ahead and smoke hash instead!


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## MaidenScotland

After my op my surgeon wouldn't prescribe pain killers... he told me to smoke hash as it was the best pain killer available.. I just suffered instead,


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## SHendra

Says a lot about pain relief here don't it. I suffer with migraines from time to time and find very little here to rid them. Other than Catafast which I often need 2 over a period of a few hours! Plus ice on my head and a dark room! Panadol etc here don't do anything!


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## MaidenScotland

Try Imagran... they work for me

We have gone completely off topic lol


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## seawind77

samertalat said:


> What you people want to tell me that you pay 800 Pounds which is = to $142.00 ... wowwwwww that is slavery , i can't believe it how can someone lives on this ?
> How come that minimum wages are so low and things are expensive to buy , I mean food and basics .
> I still can't get it in to my head , and people tell me that Egypt is a very expensive place to live??
> God ..........


No. I am totaly disagree and a little bit offended for the slavery word. But not angry. 

First of all we are paying over minimum salary ( which is normaly 400 or 500 LE). Where many factories not covering their workers, we are covering them with social insurance.

Supplying good catering service among many factories. Most of them not supplying or having a budget between 3 to 5 LE per worker where I am supplying the food with 10 LE and me and other board of directors eating the same food with workers.

If they work more than 8 hours they are getting their overtime. Plus the social insurance.

You may say that these should to be so nothing extra. But if you know the working conditions of Egypt (industrial conditions) you can say that we are far beyond these conditions.

I know not so good but at least over the average.


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## MensEtManus

I tend to agree with Seawind77. 

Actually, many folks I know are trying to bring in as many indians/pakistanis into their factory because the Egyptians are too lazy too work (coupled with the problem with the praying breaks). Heck, in Saudi Arabic and Dubai most of the factory workers are either indians or Philippinos to avoid the praying/cigarette breaks.

800LE for 8 hrs shifts at Borg are actually very high salaries. If you check "el waseet", the weekly classified magazine, you'll notice most Borg factories advertise 650LE/12hr shifts. On the other hand, inside Alexandria, you'll find 12hr security jobs for 450LE. Of course females tend to be in the range of 400-600LE and males in the 400-1000LE for workers. Most of the factories at borg with heavy chemicals tend to pay in the 1000LE range (because most workers become ill after one year or so).

I think if salaries go up, so do the prices of the basic staples of life within Egypt will go up (unless of course the supply increases to spread the costs). Anyhow, I mean, where else are we so lucky to be able to buy 1kg of rice for 2.5LE or 1kg of pasta for 3.5LE or sandwiches for 1-3LE. Even koshari can be bought for as low as 2LE per plate. Hawawshi for a mere 4-5LE.

Coupled with salary increases, the utilities have skyrocketed. Water is almost double (price per m3) from last year. Electricity will double by year end (price per kw). Natural gas is on the rise. In other words, most business owners are trying to keep labor costs low just to fend the unrealistic rise of utility prices by the various governmental suppliers. 

To make things more aggravating is the fact that you keep hearing all these rumors about very high unemployment but the truth is that no one seems to want to work. Here is a typical scenario, a new hire arrives at the factory, work for a few days, then quits. Comes back after two months and wants to work again. You ask him, where were you? He replies, I stayed home as I was tired from working. You bring him back to work, he works for a few months until it is summer, then leaves you to go to Sharm or North Coast to sell nuts on the beach. He comes back in the winter and begs for his job. The cycle repeats.

On another note, I did read about the AUC 400LE, and I am shocked. I thought Cairo did not pay less than 1000 for any type of job. I mean, I've heard ridiculously high salaries for most jobs in Cairo.


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## MaidenScotland

Prices are not stable.. I shopped on Tuesday and a kilo of sugar cost me 5.75 in Carrefour.
Flour has rocketed and I had to throw out the flour I bought as on close inspection it was full of weevils and some black beasties. 
I really feel for the people who are on fixed incomes and struggling to feed a family, I am not in any of those situations and yet I find life here expensive.


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## DeadGuy

MensEtManus said:


> I tend to agree with Seawind77.
> 
> Actually, many folks I know are trying to bring in as many indians/pakistanis into their factory because the Egyptians are too lazy too work (coupled with the problem with the praying breaks). Heck, in Saudi Arabic and Dubai most of the factory workers are either indians or Philippinos to avoid the praying/cigarette breaks.
> 
> 800LE for 8 hrs shifts at Borg are actually very high salaries. If you check "el waseet", the weekly classified magazine, you'll notice most Borg factories advertise 650LE/12hr shifts. On the other hand, inside Alexandria, you'll find 12hr security jobs for 450LE. Of course females tend to be in the range of 400-600LE and males in the 400-1000LE for workers. Most of the factories at borg with heavy chemicals tend to pay in the 1000LE range (because most workers become ill after one year or so).
> 
> I think if salaries go up, so do the prices of the basic staples of life within Egypt will go up (unless of course the supply increases to spread the costs). Anyhow, I mean, where else are we so lucky to be able to buy 1kg of rice for 2.5LE or 1kg of pasta for 3.5LE or sandwiches for 1-3LE. Even koshari can be bought for as low as 2LE per plate. Hawawshi for a mere 4-5LE.
> 
> Coupled with salary increases, the utilities have skyrocketed. Water is almost double (price per m3) from last year. Electricity will double by year end (price per kw). Natural gas is on the rise. In other words, most business owners are trying to keep labor costs low just to fend the unrealistic rise of utility prices by the various governmental suppliers.
> 
> To make things more aggravating is the fact that you keep hearing all these rumors about very high unemployment but the truth is that no one seems to want to work. Here is a typical scenario, a new hire arrives at the factory, work for a few days, then quits. Comes back after two months and wants to work again. You ask him, where were you? He replies, I stayed home as I was tired from working. You bring him back to work, he works for a few months until it is summer, then leaves you to go to Sharm or North Coast to sell nuts on the beach. He comes back in the winter and begs for his job. The cycle repeats.
> 
> On another note, I did read about the AUC 400LE, and I am shocked. I thought Cairo did not pay less than 1000 for any type of job. I mean, I've heard ridiculously high salaries for most jobs in Cairo.


Well, I do agree, sort of!

But seriously though, people aren’t supposed to hire those who don’t wanna work, if someone’s hired and then they decide to give themselves a break then they should be on the employer’s black list! You’re running a business not a bloody charity!

In most of KSA’s cities, EVERYONE stops working during prayers, not just Muslims! If anyone was caught doing anything other than praying during the prayer time, he’s in trouble!

Now about workers and so on, generally speaking about the Egyptians being lazy thing, it’s mainly a culture thing in here, time is not that big of a deal for people in here, another reason is that no matter how hard you work, your work will never be appreciated, or what’s even worse, someone else will be rewarded for your own work! So what the Hell! That's why the commission thing would be the best way to get work out of employers, simply cause this way they will see how different it would be if they did work or decided to be lazy!

The prices in here will always be going up, even if the minimum wage thing was set to be 100 EGP./month, simply cause some people just wanna make more money!

Good luck!


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## samertalat

seawind77 said:


> No. I am totaly disagree and a little bit offended for the slavery word. But not angry.
> 
> First of all we are paying over minimum salary ( which is normaly 400 or 500 LE). Where many factories not covering their workers, we are covering them with social insurance.
> 
> Supplying good catering service among many factories. Most of them not supplying or having a budget between 3 to 5 LE per worker where I am supplying the food with 10 LE and me and other board of directors eating the same food with workers.
> 
> If they work more than 8 hours they are getting their overtime. Plus the social insurance.
> 
> You may say that these should to be so nothing extra. But if you know the working conditions of Egypt (industrial conditions) you can say that we are far beyond these conditions.
> 
> I know not so good but at least over the average.


Looks like you are in the furniture manufacturing business , if I am not mistaking , of clothing , I lived in Turkey and know how you think . Well let me ask you a question ,,,, If you where to work at 800LE per month would you ? Can you feed your family on that?
I understand what you say , I know Turks are kind people and they do not use others to get rich , but still people are very poor in Egypt , 
Hope that conditions will get better one day and that they could make money to live like a humans and like every other person in this planet.


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## samertalat

DeadGuy said:


> Well, I do agree, sort of!
> 
> But seriously though, people aren’t supposed to hire those who don’t wanna work, if someone’s hired and then they decide to give themselves a break then they should be on the employer’s black list! You’re running a business not a bloody charity!
> 
> In most of KSA’s cities, EVERYONE stops working during prayers, not just Muslims! If anyone was caught doing anything other than praying during the prayer time, he’s in trouble!
> 
> Now about workers and so on, generally speaking about the Egyptians being lazy thing, it’s mainly a culture thing in here, time is not that big of a deal for people in here, another reason is that no matter how hard you work, your work will never be appreciated, or what’s even worse, someone else will be rewarded for your own work! So what the Hell! That's why the commission thing would be the best way to get work out of employers, simply cause this way they will see how different it would be if they did work or decided to be lazy!
> 
> The prices in here will always be going up, even if the minimum wage thing was set to be 100 EGP./month, simply cause some people just wanna make more money!
> 
> Good luck!



DeadGuy ... one thing I agree with you that people should be taken off salary and work on commission , But a decent commission so they can make money .
As most places in the USA people work on a straight commission and make a lots of money.
And even straight commission we used to reward people at the end of each month and then end of the year , Our company gave you a bonus of $15000.00 for being top sales person of the year CASH NO TAX (They paid the taxes on it) Then you won a car , another prize was a trip anywhere in the world all fully paid for you 3 weeks vacation or if you where at the company for over 15 years then you have 5 weeks fully paid vacation . Other prizes where a $50.000.00 ROLEX gold and diamond watch.+ we had every week end a contest where if you sold warranties you got a $500.00 cash or top sales for the week end gets also a $500.00 and in some cases $1500.00. So hey they know how to reward there employees and end of year the big bonuses for there managers .
This is the American way for companies to make Millions of Dollars , They let you make money but they still make Millions , I new some companies that paid up to 15% commissions , but they start at 5% and going up and up.
A commission sales person makes from $75000.00 to $150000.00 in sales like furniture and other retail businesses . I new a guy that was graduated from Harvard law school and his dad pulled him out and had him work with him selling Spare parts for airplanes where he made a yearly income of 2.5 Million Dollars and that was back in the 80's.
Wish that people in Egypt change and not only the rich makes the money and get richer but the normal people make decent money so they can live like humans and save some money.
Amen


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## DeadGuy

Well, as much as I'd love to see those figures on my friends' pay checks or mine, but it wouldn't be fair to compare the US of A to Egypt or to do it the other way around........

May be in a couple hundred years or so


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## SHendra

MaidenScotland said:


> Try Imagran... they work for me
> 
> We have gone completely off topic lol


Thanks and noted!


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## samertalat

DeadGuy said:


> Well, as much as I'd love to see those figures on my friends' pay checks or mine, but it wouldn't be fair to compare the US of A to Egypt or to do it the other way around........
> 
> May be in a couple hundred years or so


No you don't have to wait Hundred years. I can proof to you that if I want to come and make tons of money in Egypt i will. It is wiliness , You have to strong and fight and if you smart enough you will make money , I worked in Africa , kenya and other countries , at the time very poor countries and made money, I worked in Korea 30 years ago when the workers used to earn 35 Cents a day and made money , I am a regular person like you and others but maybe I have a bit more than others that i was born with a business mind ,my brains where business , party a lot but in the 4 to 5 hours that i worked a day I made enough .
So one thing you have to get up like i did in the morning , have a breakfast and go and say that today i will make a $1000.00 .. And I did in a bad day even.
But you have to set goals in life, There are many rich people in Egypt , Why are they rich and others are average or poor, People needs a push so they wake up and make money, I have proven to myself that nothing is impossible in this life , Although I am not a greedy person.
Wish you and all Egyptian brothers good luck and may Allah bless them and give them health and better life.
Amen


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## SHendra

samertalat said:


> No you don't have to wait Hundred years. I can proof to you that if I want to come and make tons of money in Egypt i will...
> Amen


Samer maybe I am wrong to say this and don't wish to come across rude etc. And maybe I know 'nothing' when it comes to business adventures etc _(ok I don't lol)_. 

But I do know how life to the natives here can be. I take it your aware that to those who are born here it isn't quite as easy as 'get up and do'? Because it all pretty much depends on a few things. 

1: If they were born into a family with a bit of wealth. 
2: The family/friends have good connections. 
3: They do well in university. 

It isn't so much they just need one of those things they need all 3. You hear of uni graduates unable to get work at all, all down to fact they do not know the right people OR the work simply ain't there. You also hear of them taking on unskilled work (cleaning, shelve filling, factory) which proves they ain't all work shy and just trying to get by. Which then makes the those with no uni behind them lives even harder as you see the unskilled work seeking graduates to take on the jobs! 

Heh a few months ago I read in a local paper a job offer for someone to work in some tomato factory but the snag was they needed 5 years experience with tomatoes or a uni degree!


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## samertalat

SHendra said:


> Samer maybe I am wrong to say this and don't wish to come across rude etc. And maybe I know 'nothing' when it comes to business adventures etc _(ok I don't lol)_.
> 
> But I do know how life to the natives here can be. I take it your aware that to those who are born here it isn't quite as easy as 'get up and do'? Because it all pretty much depends on a few things.
> 
> 1: If they were born into a family with a bit of wealth.
> 2: The family/friends have good connections.
> 3: They do well in university.
> 
> It isn't so much they just need one of those things they need all 3. You hear of uni graduates unable to get work at all, all down to fact they do not know the right people OR the work simply ain't there. You also hear of them taking on unskilled work (cleaning, shelve filling, factory) which proves they ain't all work shy and just trying to get by. Which then makes the those with no uni behind them lives even harder as you see the unskilled work seeking graduates to take on the jobs!
> 
> Heh a few months ago I read in a local paper a job offer for someone to work in some tomato factory but the snag was they needed 5 years experience with tomatoes or a uni degree!


Well each one thinks deferent that the other and his believes are deferent too , I believe in making it no matter where in the world and I have a long history and can prove it .
You think this way I think in a deferent way , I will never forget a Jewish guy in Los Angeles who used to walk from place to place selling clothes , offering it to guys at car shops and other businesses , and boom one day I was walking in the main BLVD and saw a store a real big size store and when i looked inside who i see ? That guy , I went in and spoke to him and hey he was the owner of the store, Years passed and suddenly he had a chain of stores called the 99Cents Stores where he is in the Stock market now .
This story tells you that you have to work hard with a bit of brains , Don't sit around and say hey the country is poor and you will never make it because others did not made it .
Remember thinking positive and trying to do positive things will get you some where .
Maybe it is hard for you or others to understand me , But hey an example my brother was one of the richest people in the state of South Carolina , he started from ZERO . When he past away in 2008 he did worth Billions of Dollars in real estate , he has 42 Ferraries and Sporting good stores and you name it + a lots of cash flow.
Sorry I will never have any excuse stop me from doing something and making money .
But remember HEALTH is the most important think that money can't buy


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## DeadGuy

samertalat said:


> No you don't have to wait Hundred years. I can proof to you that if I want to come and make tons of money in Egypt i will. It is wiliness , You have to strong and fight and if you smart enough you will make money , I worked in Africa , kenya and other countries , at the time very poor countries and made money, I worked in Korea 30 years ago when the workers used to earn 35 Cents a day and made money , I am a regular person like you and others but maybe I have a bit more than others that i was born with a business mind ,my brains where business , party a lot but in the 4 to 5 hours that i worked a day I made enough .
> So one thing you have to get up like i did in the morning , have a breakfast and go and say that today i will make a $1000.00 .. And I did in a bad day even.
> But you have to set goals in life, There are many rich people in Egypt , Why are they rich and others are average or poor, People needs a push so they wake up and make money, I have proven to myself that nothing is impossible in this life , Although I am not a greedy person.
> Wish you and all Egyptian brothers good luck and may Allah bless them and give them health and better life.
> Amen



Well, sorry for putting it this way, but you’ve got no idea how things work in here, I never said that people aren’t making enough money to pay for their employees, they do!

But in here, and like in everywhere, there are priorities! And paying the employees is NOT the main priority for anyone in here! 

About being “smart” and so on, it’s not that “hard” to get your point actually (And I’m not really sure why you think it is )

But you need to understand that to be able to start any kind of business in here, you need to do a lot more things other than just “working hard” and so on, you gotta “feed” some greedy mouths in here, or else these mouths will actually bite you cutting both your hands and brains! And to put it in more simple words, if you're a foreign investor, things will actually be much easier for you comparing to any local one! That’s all I can say without getting in a trouble!

Good luck! And please! Just wait till you actually come here before you start talkin' like you know how things work in here........!


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## MaidenScotland

There are 18 million people living in Cairo and I would guess that 75% of them have had limited education and are doing the best they can to provide for their families, hence the reason you get ripped off so much.
This is not America it is Egypt and a class system is very much in place and nepotism is how most of the vacancies are filled. You have told us that you are the son of a diplomat with a great education... so you have not had the struggles that ordinary people have here and your brother couldn't have started with nothing a good education is worth a lot. The guy that rides a donkey cart from 6 am to 11pm is never going to be rich, even if he found oil in his back yard do you honestly believe he would be allowed to keep it? He lives hand to mouth he cannot physically do any more hours. To compare entrepreneurial skills of the west to here is fantasy.


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## samertalat

Guys sorry but I am not comparing the USA with Egypt , First you need to work your brains (Meaning of working hard) Then you put up a plan of what you want to do , Third you start small , no one ever started big every one starts from the bottom and gets up .
As for myself i do not need to work ,I am thinking of starting a Lebanese restaurant , Its still maybe since real estate is slow , I was going to buy Villas fix them to Luxury and sell them at high prices , but now Real estate is slow.
Here DeadGuy how much is it to start a local restaurant in Egypt(Not for me) for a simple Egyptian guy like you ? Or start something small? Not sure what is your education or what is your profession .Do you know that the Owner and founder of Apple Computer company STEVE JOBS CEO had started building computers in his garage at home.....
Well if you think that I have to arrive there to know what kind of a business I will start , I do not have to . Just by knowing that it is a Tourist area number one for Europeans and Americans is a good food restaurant , Then all the rest . But the most in making big money is food anywhere in the world (If you serve good food)
Buy DeadGuy I will call you GoodGuy since you sound like an Egyptian Good Guy . Sit one day alone ,just by yourself and think very well , Try to come up with something that you might like to do , take a risk , do your best and start , even from ZERO. Trust me I started my first business from ZERO . I had the money but I told my dad at the time that I will start business from Zero , I went and opened my first business using other people's money , And i made it , Then sold the business took 5 years vacation traveled all over Europe and when I had my last 5K in my hand I went out and started again .
Look there are ups and downs , I went through it all , But I was lazy I worked 4 days a week and summer time only the weekend and the rest of the week i used to do surfing at the ocean .
Trust me try and one day I hope that you will write me and say thank you SAM i made it and I am sure that you will .
Just do it step by step. First think of something and then plan how to start , I know that in your country no one will loan you money , But there should be a way to start something on your own, Be your own boss , Working for others will get you no where.

Maiden as for what you say you are right , Wished that i was younger and came to Cairo and took a group of people like they do in the USA and put them in track , Give them the chance to open a business on there own with support of the Government , But there (Egypt) the rich get richer and the poor stays where they are , Petty but one day that will change. Hope so.


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## MaidenScotland

Sam
Your intended advice is good but not for here.
People who have no money in the states is different from no money here... no money here means exactly that and no way of raising money nor collateral to offer against a loan.
Yes there are rich Egyptians indeed very rich Egyptians but I am willing to bet they inherited money/businesses .. I would say 99.9% for sure... that no guy could start out here with nothing today. 

Pretty women wont happen here.


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## DeadGuy

Mr. Sam! Sorry but I can’t help laughing when reading most of your posts when you just keep ignoring everyone else’s points and just keep going on and on about your own “views” about how things are in here!

I never said it’s impossible, all I said that the priorities in here are not the same as other places!

As for working hard and using the brains, sorry but you need to understand that in the States you had a whole system behind you supporting you in many ways, this isn’t the same in here, actually in here it’s not just that you don’t get help from the system, but you actually get a slap for even trying to be the same as one of the “big guys”! I’m sure you’ve seen how stupid some Egyptians are in the States, haunted by alcohol and sex and so on, but I’m sure you’ve also seen how successful Egyptians/American Egyptians are/can be in there as well, did you ever wonder why they never been the same back home?!

Sorry for putting it this way, but you’re not really that distinguished/special, you’re not the only one that got a brain and is actually using it, you also had your “Daddy’s money” there for you in case something went wrong with your plans, so I don't really think that you been risking anything, anyway, what you need to understand is that using your brains is NOT the only thing you need to have in here to get things done! To start a project, or to keep a project running there are lots of things that you need to do and need to worry about, and using your brains would be the last thing you need to worry about in here! 

I definitely hope that you don’t find any troubles with your/your wife’s restaurant “project” (And I’m sure you wouldn’t find any if you’re willing to pay for the right ones! And just as an advice?! Always use your American passport if you had a Lebanese one when getting things done in here!) But just wait till you get in here then lemme hear all the “Use your brains” talks LOL!

Good luck!


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## samertalat

DeadGuy said:


> Mr. Sam! Sorry but I can’t help laughing when reading most of your posts when you just keep ignoring everyone else’s points and just keep going on and on about your own “views” about how things are in here!
> 
> I never said it’s impossible, all I said that the priorities in here are not the same as other places!
> 
> As for working hard and using the brains, sorry but you need to understand that in the States you had a whole system behind you supporting you in many ways, this isn’t the same in here, actually in here it’s not just that you don’t get help from the system, but you actually get a slap for even trying to be the same as one of the “big guys”! I’m sure you’ve seen how stupid some Egyptians are in the States, haunted by alcohol and sex and so on, but I’m sure you’ve also seen how successful Egyptians/American Egyptians are/can be in there as well, did you ever wonder why they never been the same back home?!
> 
> Sorry for putting it this way, but you’re not really that distinguished/special, you’re not the only one that got a brain and is actually using it, you also had your “Daddy’s money” there for you in case something went wrong with your plans, so I don't really think that you been risking anything, anyway, what you need to understand is that using your brains is NOT the only thing you need to have in here to get things done! To start a project, or to keep a project running there are lots of things that you need to do and need to worry about, and using your brains would be the last thing you need to worry about in here!
> 
> I definitely hope that you don’t find any troubles with your/your wife’s restaurant “project” (And I’m sure you wouldn’t find any if you’re willing to pay for the right ones! And just as an advice?! Always use your American passport if you had a Lebanese one when getting things done in here!) But just wait till you get in here then lemme hear all the “Use your brains” talks LOL!
> 
> Good luck!


Man think what ever you want to think ,I am not Lebanese I am American/Arab I was born in Lebanon when my dad was serving here in his Job my wife is lebanese and the only nationality and citizenship I carry is American .
I will never have any troubles doing anything because i have faith in my self and in my believes . Sorry it is hard to convince you , i just wanted to give you an advice but you laugh and you will laugh all your life and stay where you are.
I never used my dads money , i had it all at the age of 17 my own money and my own business while I was going to school.
Yes I am smart and it takes a lot to be a smart person .
God Bless you and Aid Mubarak to you and all Egyptian brothers . may Allah look after all of you and help you all.
Salam
Samer


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## MaidenScotland

Sam I think DG is frustrated as you keep telling us how to make money and in a country that you have never visited. You have no reality on how things are done here, there is no point in telling us how it is in the Lebanon... this is Egypt plus you went to the Lebanon with money and are frustrated at how things are, imagine going with no money and trying to start a business.
You had a business and money whilst still at school at 17.... there are children here out working full time and children who never get the chance of school because they have to work to bring a few pounds in to help keep the family.


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## samertalat

Well Maiden the real frustrating thing is that Arabs will never learn and they do not want to learn, They want to follow there families , They do not want to change . I understand it all trust me i am not an idiot as others think in here , as DG thinks that my dad's money that made it all where is past away in 1987 and my mom inherited all the money .
I read a lot and listen to the news of the Middle East every day when i lived in the States , My life was Middle East so I new what is going on there . But never mind i have it all , I am just giving an advice to motivate people and not trying to tell them what to do . If i told DG to through himself to the Nile and die would he ?
Just an Advice . But hey sorry i should not , I have to read sometimes and laugh . I just have respect to people and specially Egyptians since i have something that connects me with them family wise , But I do not have to say or post it .
God Bless
Sam


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## DeadGuy

samertalat said:


> Man think what ever you want to think ,I am not Lebanese I am American/Arab I was born in Lebanon when my dad was serving here in his Job my wife is lebanese and the only nationality and citizenship I carry is American .
> I will never have any troubles doing anything because i have faith in my self and in my believes . Sorry it is hard to convince you , i just wanted to give you an advice but you laugh and you will laugh all your life and stay where you are.
> I never used my dads money , i had it all at the age of 17 my own money and my own business while I was going to school.
> Yes I am smart and it takes a lot to be a smart person .
> God Bless you and Aid Mubarak to you and all Egyptian brothers . may Allah look after all of you and help you all.
> Salam
> Samer



Again and as usual, you chose to ignore everything I’ve said, and not just that this time, but you also miss interrupted me as well!! I never said that did use your dad’s money, what I did say is that you had the money in case if something gone wrong with your plans! So you didn’t really risk much! But anyway, you ignoring everything else that anyone says and does not support your views instead of responding to it says much anyway 

Yes it is gonna be so hard to convince me unless you’re Egyptian or at least had projects in here already, when you talk about another country that’s half the way around the world and then try to convince me that it’s the same in here while I am the one who did experience how things are in here, what you think I’ll believe?!

The reason I laugh is what you keep doing, you just keep ignoring everything that you hear/read and you’re still living in your bubble, you’re just trying to make Egypt sound the same to you as anywhere where you felt good and had a good life! Well I got news for you, it’s NOT the same!

When it comes to business and making money, this is the land of scams and beaurocracy! You said you’ll never have any problems and I definitely hope that you won’t! But just don’t be surprised if you did have any!

Good luck!


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## SHendra

Samer have you noticed something about this thread? All those trying to point out to you how it is here are all from different countries! On top of that live in different parts of Egypt. Yet were all telling you the same thing. We ain't telling you 'opinions' nor are we saying if and maybe's. Were telling you the facts! As in reality, truths. We ain't telling you to try discourage you etc either. 

And on top of that I bet all of us really wish it really was a case of 'just having to work harder' to get further here for the locals. But in FACT it sadly isnt so.


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## Sonrisa

SHendra said:


> And on top of that I bet all of us really wish it really was a case of 'just having to work harder' to get further here for the locals. But in FACT it sadly isnt so.


WHilst I totally disagree with Samer's views, I have noticed that in many cases, if the staff actually worked harder , they would climb up the ladder and earn a few hundred or even a thousand pounds extra...but bizarre as it sounds, they choose not to work, be lazy and unreliable and come to work only to drink tea and chat with no ambition whatsoever to get the job done and increase their chances of earning more money.

It just seems the mentality is that work is only a pastime and not a way to earn a living, and that God will provide. And that mentality makes things even worse.


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## MaidenScotland

Dizzie Izzie said:


> WHilst I totally disagree with Samer's views, I have noticed that in many cases, if the staff actually worked harder , they would climb up the ladder and earn a few hundred or even a thousand pounds extra...but bizarre as it sounds, they choose not to work, be lazy and unreliable and come to work only to drink tea and chat with no ambition whatsoever to get the job done and increase their chances of earning more money.
> 
> It just seems the mentality is that work is only a pastime and not a way to earn a living, and that God will provide. And that mentality makes things even worse.





Yes but this is not what Sam is saying... he is talking about being your own boss and it is easy to have your own business just through hard work.
Yes I agree with you that those that are in employment tend to be lazy, and the closed shop mentality rules here... That is not my job is often quoted at me.


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## SHendra

Dizzie Izzie said:


> WHilst I totally disagree with Samer's views, I have noticed that in many cases, if the staff actually worked harder , they would climb up the ladder and earn a few hundred or even a thousand pounds extra...but bizarre as it sounds, they choose not to work, be lazy and unreliable and come to work only to drink tea and chat with no ambition whatsoever to get the job done and increase their chances of earning more money.
> 
> It just seems the mentality is that work is only a pastime and not a way to earn a living, and that God will provide. And that mentality makes things even worse.


I understand what your saying to and know this happens to. I meant in the way of the locals who not got the right set up in life cant just set up some business adventure and do as their wishes/dreams would like. 

My husband an example couldn't further his education due to his father taking off. Which forced my husband from an early age to just work in anything he could find in order to look after his mother and sister. He's 30 now and it's the same situation. But he's far from work shy/lazy! He can pretty much put his hands to anything the only thing letting him down is it isn't on paper!


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## samertalat

It is hard to convince and try helping others , But hey think what ever you want to think . I made it all and I am doing fine So no more advice. Get poor or rich or do what ever you want to do .
As per others non Egyptians if you complaining and did not made it in the UK or Any other country why you are in Egypt.
I am coming to Egypt because of the Dry Climate and thats all . And maybe run a business just to kill my time .
Take it or leave it  Very simple . Each one was born with brains to use and who can't use it cant and who can good for him.
Just hope that i wont hear you mooning again and again. Just live the way God wants you to live and keep saying Allah karma and he will give . he maybe will and maybe no.
Good Luck


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## MaidenScotland

samertalat said:


> It is hard to convince and try helping others , But hey think what ever you want to think . I made it all and I am doing fine So no more advice. Get poor or rich or do what ever you want to do .
> As per others non Egyptians if you complaining and did not made it in the UK or Any other country why you are in Egypt.
> I am coming to Egypt because of the Dry Climate and thats all . And maybe run a business just to kill my time .
> Take it or leave it  Very simple . Each one was born with brains to use and who can't use it cant and who can good for him.
> Just hope that i wont hear you mooning again and again. Just live the way God wants you to live and keep saying Allah karma and he will give . he maybe will and maybe no.
> Good Luck




Sam
I do not see any expat here complaining that they can't make it in Egypt.
I have a very successful career here as I did in the UK, the fact that I don't particular like a lot of aspects here doesn't mean I haven't made it. In fact I think you would not find an expat who has come to work here not doing well.


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## SHendra

None of us are complaining Samer that we've not made it. Were just saying for the Egyptians it isn't easy to do as many of us have/may of done!


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## txlstewart

samertalat said:


> Man think what ever you want to think ,I am not Lebanese I am American/Arab I was born in Lebanon when my dad was serving here in his Job my wife is lebanese and the only nationality and citizenship I carry is American .
> I will never have any troubles doing anything because i have faith in my self and in my believes . Sorry it is hard to convince you , i just wanted to give you an advice but you laugh and you will laugh all your life and stay where you are.
> I never used my dads money , i had it all at the age of 17 my own money and my own business while I was going to school.
> Yes I am smart and it takes a lot to be a smart person .
> God Bless you and Aid Mubarak to you and all Egyptian brothers . may Allah look after all of you and help you all.
> Salam
> Samer


Samer

You said that you were 17 when you started your own company whilst going to school. You also stated that the only nationality and citizenship you carry is American. May I ask where you lived in the US and where you were educated?


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## samertalat

txlstewart said:


> Samer
> 
> You said that you were 17 when you started your own company whilst going to school. You also stated that the only nationality and citizenship you carry is American. May I ask where you lived in the US and where you were educated?


Looks like a new FBI is here  I went to school in many countries since my dad used to travel for his job and live in many places around the world, Yes I went to school while I had my business , In the States I went to Tri County Technical College , I lived in Clemson South Carolina . Then in 1982 I moved to California(Los Angeles) till 2009 Does that answers your questions.


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