# Rottweilers..



## expatlora1 (Jul 30, 2014)

Are they classed as dangerous dogs in Spain? I would like to hear from anyone who actually owns a Rottweiler. Do they need to be on a leash and muzzled when out in public? Do they need special insurance because of their breed type? Thanks!!


----------



## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

The answer to all those questions is 'Yes'. 
We own two 'dangerous' dogs, a Rhodesian Ridgeback and a Cane Corso. You have to register with the authorities, undergo checks, have insurance, keep the dogs on a leash and muzzled at all times and have a 2 metre high wall around your property.
Your vet needs to be involved in this too so the best thing to do is make an appointment to discuss it all when you arrive in Spain.

We did and do all that but whenever we take our dogs out we come across dogs of all breeds and sizes running free, no lead, no muzzle. Our Ridgeback has been bitten several times by smaller dogs and as he is a gentle soul he hasn't fought back. Our fear is that one day he might....and of course being a RR and big it would be his fault. Our CC is a rescue dog who was badly treated so is timid when other dogs approach.
Too many inconsiderate owners....


----------



## tarot650 (Sep 30, 2007)

expatlora1 said:


> Are they classed as dangerous dogs in Spain? I would like to hear from anyone who actually owns a Rottweiler. Do they need to be on a leash and muzzled when out in public? Do they need special insurance because of their breed type? Thanks!!


Have a look on this site.Dave's telephone number is on there.I am sure you will get the answer to your questions.His specialist breeds are Rotties and Dobies.He has lived here for many years and knows all about laws and insurance.I am sorry I can't help further as we don't have a Rottie any more but when we did always muzzled and on a lead and always carried her paper work with us and as has been pointer out by Escapony you can be the most responsible owner it's the people that are not that you have to look out for.Dave has a radio show and has columns in a few of the papers on the Costa del Sol and he is one hell of a nice guy.Regards.SB.

David The Dogman Helping to train Humans for the benefit of Dogs


----------



## expatlora1 (Jul 30, 2014)

We own a Rottie X. He is huge and very strong, but has been attacked several times and bitten by so called 'gentle' dogs -- golden retrievers and other little snarly ones. We trained ours from the age of 6 weeks which is when we got him and have total control over him. You are completely correct in saying that there are way too many inconsiderate owners, which make their dogs who should be termed as dangerous. Shame really cause our dog is a sweetheart. Total strangers (babies, children and adults) have come up to him and kissed him and/or hugged him!!


----------



## neil1962 (Feb 25, 2015)

we have a stafffordshire bull terrier we are coming over in may june time to live for a yaer we are doing everything that we have been told wat am a bit concern about is you know you need a 2 meter high wall in your property how does that go if we are renting a apartment in a tower block anyone advise plz xthanks julia


----------



## VFR (Dec 23, 2009)

Dangerous dogs are called that for a reason, they are potentially dangerous !

No if but maybes & that is why there are laws to try and protect the public against attack, and there is not a year goes by without another child being killed/maimed by "my lovable/would not hurt a fly/big softie" turning in *an instant* before the most responsible owner can react.

Sorry but that is how I feel.


----------



## neil1962 (Feb 25, 2015)

VFR said:


> Dangerous dogs are called that for a reason, they are potentially dangerous !
> 
> No if but maybes & that is why there are laws to try and protect the public against attack, and there is not a year goes by without another child being killed/maimed by "my lovable/would not hurt a fly/big softie" turning in *an instant* before the most responsible owner can react.
> 
> Sorry but that is how I feel.


ALL DOGS ARE POTENTIALLY DANGEROUS !!!! its down to the owners and how they are brought up i may add julia


----------



## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

VFR said:


> Dangerous dogs are called that for a reason, they are potentially dangerous !
> 
> No if but maybes & that is why there are laws to try and protect the public against attack, and there is not a year goes by without another child being killed/maimed by "my lovable/would not hurt a fly/big softie" turning in *an instant* before the most responsible owner can react.
> 
> Sorry but that is how I feel.


All dogs are indeed potentially dangerous but then so are people and much more so. Women are certainly much more likely to be attacked by dangerous men. I've often said, only half-jokingly, that men shouldn't be allowed out after dark unless accompanied by a woman.
Small dogs can be vicious too. I've been bitten by a Jack Russell. A responsible owner will know their dog so they can read its moods and likely reactions, train it using non-aggressive methods and make sure it is completely under control in public by keeping it leashed and muzzled. We use a CannyCollar for both our dogs.
It's a pity that some people aren't trained, brought up in a gentle, loving and caring environment the way sensible owners bring up their dogs. If that were the case, there might be fewer rapes, assaults and murders of which there are far more than attacks by dogs of any size or breed.

As for the question of a dangerous dog in a tower block flat....you may find that there are rules relating to what kind of dog you are allowed to have in such circumstances.


----------



## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Incidentally, the background to these sad cases where dogs attack and even kill children have nearly always many features in common.
The dogs are kept in unsuitable conditions, rarely walked and often are kept by their owners for backyard breeding.
The owners often have criminal backgrounds, usually convictions connected with drugs.
The attacks often take place in rough or rundown estates where dogs are allowed to run loose in semi-feral packs.
Of course that's not always the case but it is, more often than not, so.


----------



## neil1962 (Feb 25, 2015)

mrypg9 said:


> Incidentally, the background to these sad cases where dogs attack and even kill children have nearly always many features in common.
> The dogs are kept in unsuitable conditions, rarely walked and often are kept by their owners for backyard breeding.
> The owners often have criminal backgrounds, usually convictions connected with drugs.
> The attacks often take place in rough or rundown estates where dogs are allowed to run loose in semi-feral packs.
> Of course that's not always the case but it is, more often than not, so.


couldnt have worded that better myself xx i am sick to the back teeth with ppl staring and crossing the street wen i approach with jake for gods sake he is a dog well trained well fed well cared for and i have never ever seen him show his teeth be aggressive etc he will lick you to death ive had ppl saying on no thats a devil dog!!!! really !!! go in look up your history staffodrshire bull terriers were originally breed to be a gentleman's dog then were trained to be nanny dogs yes nanny dogs they dont eat kids they protect them this been shown over the years with my granddaughter but i am under no illusion that he could turn same as ever other breed out their and you most likely see humans turn nasty before you would a dog !!!!

thanks for the advice regarding the tower block we are trying to get a villa town house just need to wait and see in april wats available to us thanks julia x


----------



## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

mrypg9 said:


> Incidentally, the background to these sad cases where dogs attack and even kill children have nearly always many features in common.
> The dogs are kept in unsuitable conditions, rarely walked and often are kept by their owners for backyard breeding.
> The owners often have criminal backgrounds, usually convictions connected with drugs.
> The attacks often take place in rough or rundown estates where dogs are allowed to run loose in semi-feral packs.
> Of course that's not always the case but it is, more often than not, so.


No, it's not always the case, is it?

Princess Anne guilty over dog attack | UK news | The Guardian

And the dog wasn't put down! I bet that decision would have been different if the owner had been from a rough or rundown estate instead of Gatcombe Park.

Another one of the Princess's dogs attacked and killed one of the Queen's corgis.

Wonder why she hasn't been banned from keeping dogs as an unfit person.


----------



## expatlora1 (Jul 30, 2014)

VFR said:


> Dangerous dogs are called that for a reason, they are potentially dangerous !
> 
> No if but maybes & that is why there are laws to try and protect the public against attack, and there is not a year goes by without another child being killed/maimed by "my lovable/would not hurt a fly/big softie" turning in *an instant* before the most responsible owner can react.
> 
> Sorry but that is how I feel.


I do not agree with you here! All dogs are potentially dangerous -- it is all in the training. It is the owners who require training to take on any dog regardless of breed or size. We have lived in several countries and on different continents and all the vets and people including strangers who've met us and our dog, would tell you how comfortable they are with us and our dog! It starts with responsible owners! We are still in touch with all our ex-vets and friends from wherever we've lived and everyone asks when we are going to bring our boy to visit! He is their 'poster child' for how any dog should be brought up! I can tell you this: our hearts fill with pride every time a total stranger remarks on how well our boy is brought up! A responsible owner = a good responsible and obedient dog!!


----------



## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

expatlora1 said:


> I do not agree with you here! All dogs are potentially dangerous -- it is all in the training. It is the owners who require training to take on any dog regardless of breed or size. We have lived in several countries and on different continents and all the vets and people including strangers who've met us and our dog, would tell you how comfortable they are with us and our dog! It starts with responsible owners! We are still in touch with all our ex-vets and friends from wherever we've lived and everyone asks when we are going to bring our boy to visit! He is their 'poster child' for how any dog should be brought up! I can tell you this: our hearts fill with pride every time a total stranger remarks on how well our boy is brought up! A responsible owner = a good responsible and obedient dog!!


One could hardly find a better trained or handled animal than a police dog, but although 99.999% of the time they do a wonderful job, occasionally even they can react totally unpredictably, with tragic consequences.

Woman dies after Police dog attack | UK | News | Daily Express

Maybe this lady wouldn't have died if she hadn't already been very seriously ill, but she wasn't a suspect or behaving in a violent or threatening manner when the dog bit her.

I like dogs, I really do, but I don't think any owner, however responsible, or whatever the breed of dog, can ever say with 100% confidence that their dog would never bite.


----------



## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

I should add that an English couple who live not far from us have a Rottweiler/Mastiff cross. He is huge and fearsome looking, but a real sweetheart and soft as butter (or at least he always is with us).

Another neighbour, however, had a Yorkie terrier which was the nastiest, snappiest piece of work you could hope to meet and used to run at people in the street, yapping, snarling and baring its teeth. It disappeared a few months ago and if it has died I would not be sorry.


----------



## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Lynn R said:


> One could hardly find a better trained or handled animal than a police dog, but although 99.999% of the time they do a wonderful job, occasionally even they can react totally unpredictably, with tragic consequences.
> 
> Woman dies after Police dog attack | UK | News | Daily Express
> 
> ...


I wouldn't say our dogs wouldn't bite. I haven't actually said that 'dogs won't bite'. They have teeth, they can bite. My point was that dangerous dogs if controlled and muzzled are less likely to hurt anyone than a small or medium-sized dog left to roam free as many are.
I agree about Princess Anne. Of course she should have been treated like any other member of the public.
I did say that the cases where people were attacked *nearly always * have many characteristics in common but I also said that not all come under those headings. I don't believe there is an either/or black and white case to be made here.
All dogs can bite. Not all dogs, whatever their size, will bite.
Our German Shepherd, Ferdinand, who loved Sandra, didn't bite the man who grabbed her by the throat on a dark night and tried to drag her behind some bushes. A pity, really. Ferdinand merely appeared from where he had been snuffling and pinned the guy against a tree to enable her to escape. He got a kick in the ribs which left a muddy print for his bravery.
The fact still remains that people, motorbikes, cycles and cars are more dangerous than dogs when, like dogs, they are in the wrong hands.
There should be more controls over dog ownership in both Spain and the UK, though.
Owning a dog isn't a human right, it's a privilege and carries responsibilities to the dog and other people.


----------



## expatlora1 (Jul 30, 2014)

Lynn R said:


> One could hardly find a better trained or handled animal than a police dog, but although 99.999% of the time they do a wonderful job, occasionally even they can react totally unpredictably, with tragic consequences.
> 
> Woman dies after Police dog attack | UK | News | Daily Express
> 
> ...


In this case, we can very proudly say that we are 100% that our dog would never bite -- we've had him since he was 6 weeks old and he is now a very senior dog!! I don't think we've ever heard him growl -- not even as a pup!!


----------



## Gareth54 (Nov 8, 2014)

expatlora1 said:


> Are they classed as dangerous dogs in Spain? I would like to hear from anyone who actually owns a Rottweiler. Do they need to be on a leash and muzzled when out in public? Do they need special insurance because of their breed type? Thanks!!


Any person owning a potentially dangerous dog (perros potencialmente peligrosos) in Spain must have an appropriate licence (by law of article 3 of the Royal Decree 287/2002, of 22 of March 2002) and the dog must be registered with the municipality. Handlers and walkers of dangerous or potentially dangerous dogs must also be licensed (article 1, 2 of Law 50/1999, of December 1999). A licence is valid for five years.

Potentially dangerous dog are identified as being in one of three categories:
1) Breeds and breed crosses classified as potentially dangerous:
• Doberman (Andalucia only)
• Bull Terriers
• Presa Canarios
• Napolitan Mastiffs
• Boxers
• Pit Bull Terrier
• Staffordshire Bull Terrier
• American Staffordshire Terrier
• Rottweiler
• Dogo Argentino
• Fila Brasileiro
• Tosa Inu
• Akita Inu

2) Dogs with certain characteristics of these breeds are also classified as potentially dangerous. 

The characteristics are:
• Strong musculature, powerful or athletic constitution, robustness, agility, vigor and endurance
• Short hair
• Deep chest (60 to 80 cm), height of over 50 cm and a weight over 20 Kg
• Big, square, head, with a wide skull and strong jaws
• Broad, short and muscled neck.
• Straight, parallel forelegs and muscular hindquarters, relatively long back legs standing at an angle

3) Dogs that have a track record of aggression to humans and other animals must also be licensed and registered.
Dog owner licence application
The licence application is made to the municipality of the place of residence. The applicant must take the following (an applicant must be over 18 years):
• Proof of identity (passport or residence card)
• Proof of having no criminal convictions
• Proof of being mentally and physically capable of looking after one of these animals. (There are centres test of physical and psychological aptitude can be done and a certificate issued. The certificate must have been issued in the previous 12 months)
• An insurance contract for the dog with a liability of at least €120,000 (€175,000 in Andalucia)
• Proof of fully up-to-date vaccinations
• Proof of identification by microchip
• Proof that the dog is or has attended training school
Once accepted, a licence (the licencia para tener perros potencialmente peligrosos) is issued.

Dog registration

Potentially dangerous dogs must be registered with the municipal registry for dangerous dogs (Registro Municipal de Perros Potencialmente Peligrosos). Registration of the dog must be renewed annually.
Take:
• Proof of identification and microchip number's certificate
• Certificate from the vet stating that the dog is in good health

Walking a potentially dangerous dog

Dog owners or handlers must carry the licence and dog registration document when out with the dog. The dog must be muzzled and on a lead of no more than two metres long (one metre in Andalucia). Only one dog may be handled per person. In Andalucia, dangerous animals are banned from entering children's leisure or recreational areas.Note: In most municipalities, only one dog may be registered to one person. The property where the dogs are kept must be enclosed by a two metre high barrier.

HTH


----------



## expatlora1 (Jul 30, 2014)

Thank you for the info Gareth54. Much appreciated!!


----------



## xicoalc (Apr 20, 2010)

VFR said:


> Dangerous dogs are called that for a reason, they are potentially dangerous !
> 
> No if but maybes & that is why there are laws to try and protect the public against attack, and there is not a year goes by without another child being killed/maimed by "my lovable/would not hurt a fly/big softie" turning in *an instant* before the most responsible owner can react.
> 
> Sorry but that is how I feel.


You have to remember that far more small dogs nip and bite than big breeds and that breeds such as rotties, if properly brought up will usually only hurt someone if they feel that they or their family are in danger.

I own 4 dogs including a rottie and yes or course if my rottie did decide to attack he would cause much more damage than a jack russel sheerly because of his size, body mass and power but bigger dogs tend, by their nature to have a much higher tollerence level before they finally snap.

What should be pointed out is that ALL dogs will give warnings before they bite. Whether thats a growl, a change of posture, a look or other things, dogs generally do not "just bite" and as humans that take animals into our life we have a duty to learn about them, understand their body language and warning signs and accept that sometimes a dog just has had enough or wants to be left alone. This is particularly the case when dogs attack kids. How many kids are nipped by a small dog without it making the headlines? MANY! When a rottie bites a kid its more serious and of course the media hype added in means that it usually makes the news. If the owners learned about their dogs, trained them well and also trained the kids to understand the dogs and know when the dog is saying "leave me alone, i dont want to play" then the cases of any dog bites would be far far less.

I agree far more with the spanish clasification of "potentially dangerous" based on size and physical ability rather than the UK clasification of "dangerous dog" which blanket labels all dogs of certain breeds. I also agree with the spanish system of allowing you to have dogs of certain breeds IF you regsiter etc etc than the UK law of killing certain breeds or types like pitties.

I can honestly say my rottie would not attack anyone but thats because of two things. Firstly HE has been well brought up and secondly, as the human I TAKE CONTROL and if kids are around and I think rottie has had enough or wants to sleep etc etc i am responsible and make sure the children know to leave him alone.


----------



## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Our RR is a gentle soul. He allows our Cane Corso to walk all over him, steal his food, take and often destroy his toys... We adopted her after he had been the sole focus of our love and attention for seven years yet he accepted her with no problems, after the first meeting when he thought she was a living sex toy. He soon learnt otherwise when she nipped his ear!
My son is one of those silly men who think all large dogs like to play rough - he had GSDs until his wife insisted their next dog would be a smaller breed. When he was last at our house he tried to play a silly game with Azor the RR which involved him gently prodding him with his foot as he lay sleeping. 
Azor indicated that he did not welcome such undignified treatment by emitting a low growl. Rob, who doesn't really 'know' Azor, prodded him again. This time he got a more serious warning growl. He left him alone.
We know our dog, his moods, his body language. We can more or less predict what he will do. But no living creature is 100% predictable. I'm not, you're not. Dogs like humas need understanding...and respect.


----------



## xicoalc (Apr 20, 2010)

mrypg9 said:


> , after the first meeting when he thought she was a living sex toy. . -------------
> 
> Dogs like humas need understanding...and respect.


Point 1: Mary I am the only living sex toy thank you very much honey!

Point 2: Couldnt agree more!!!


----------



## Pazcat (Mar 24, 2010)

I think the reality of it is that there are really not a huge number of dog attacks from dangerous or otherwise(says me who is possibly proof otherwise ). 
For the most part it is probably blown out of proportion by the media and do-gooders, that said a dog can be a dangerous animal, any animal can and I do believe that certain rules should be in place and good deal of common sense too.

I do believe though there is a vast difference between a nasty little dog and the friendliest of big ones. There is a reason you don't hear about a particularly frightening attack from a Chihuahua, because it's neither frightening or all that serious.
We owned(my mother did) a viscous little Pekinese, I can't remeber how many times that thing drew blood but that was it. Little more than a nasty scratch, something that almost anybody is capable of getting over. Hardly Daily Mail material.

However when it came to the staffy x, well I needed a new nose. Literally it was gone and it was reconstructed by one of the best cranial facial surgeons in the world. 
So I don't really think it's fair comparing little dogs to big ones because try as it might that little Peke was not able to remove body parts. 

All in all I still believe in dogs, we/I/family have had many in our years and have been around them constantly and I'm not scared of dogs but would never take one for granted. Even my own.

I'm not sure what the point of the above rambling is but there you go.


----------



## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

xicoalc said:


> Point 1: Mary I am the only living sex toy thank you very much honey!
> 
> D


Need photo to confirm


----------



## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Pazcat said:


> I think the reality of it is that there are really not a huge number of dog attacks from dangerous or otherwise(says me who is possibly proof otherwise ).
> For the most part it is probably blown out of proportion by the media and do-gooders, that said a dog can be a dangerous animal, any animal can and I do believe that certain rules should be in place and good deal of common sense too.
> 
> I do believe though there is a vast difference between a nasty little dog and the friendliest of big ones. There is a reason you don't hear about a particularly frightening attack from a Chihuahua, because it's neither frightening or all that serious.
> ...


The point is that you have made very clear the difference between the damage a big and a little dog can do. 
Our RR could kill, in the wrong hands, as could many other large breeds. Only today a woman has been reported killed by an American pitbull...
So a good sensible post.
I think we dog lovers can get a bit carried away over our beloved pets, sometimes....


----------

