# Working age British Expats - Spanish nationality renouncing Brit citzenship dilemma



## Williams2 (Sep 15, 2013)

Not that it affects me but this topic of conversation is cropping up more & more whenever
I talk to working age British Expats who have been here over 10 years and therefore are
considering whether to go for the permanente TIE or for Spanish citizenship and 
Spanish nationality instead; particularly for those who have become fully immersed in
the Spanish language.

Namely because Spain doesn't allow dual nationality whenever foreign citizens go
through the process of acquiring Spanish nationality; then they assume as part of
that process there's an oath of allegiance to Spain along with a renouncing of
their British citizenship and allegiance, together with a surrender of their British
passports.

As we all know following the end of the transition period Spanish citizens who want
to live and work in Britain will have to pass the Points based immigration process;
to determine whether he or she has the necessary University degrees or other
higher education or Professionally sought after qualifications to tick the boxes to move,
settle and work in the UK.

Therefore it goes without saying that those working age British Expats who renounced
British citizenship in order to acquire Spanish nationality and a Spanish passport will
( regardless of their previous nationality ) be subject to satisfying the points based
immigration system process, if they ever want to return to living and working in the UK
again in the future.

Naturally those Brits who go for Spanish nationality with University degrees, honours
degrees or other highly desirable professional qualifications have nothing
to worry about, if they ever want to return to the UK.

Suffice to say thanks to a reluctance to 'burn their bridges' as regards employment
back in the UK and the hightened 'job insecurity' arising as a consequence of the
pandemic and the lockdowns; there's also a hightened reluctance amoungst those
who reckoned it no big deal going for Spanish nationality, to be wary of doing
so now in the post-Covid economic environment.

Finally when you renounce your British citizenship ( because you had no other choice )
in order to acquire the citizenship of another country, that doesn't recognise dual 
nationality.
Have you really lost your British citizenship for good ?? - you can never get it back again ? 
no matter what the circumstances except maybe as a consequence of marrying a
British citizen ?

Or you could get your British citizenship back after being 'legally resident in the UK' for
a period of 10 years and go for British citizenship but the former British citizen can never
reach that stage because he or she never satisfied the points based immigration process
to get in - in the first place !!

:lol:


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## NickZ (Jun 26, 2009)

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/form-rs1-guidance

Even that requires you file the paperwork to renounce with the UK office. The Spanish ceremony isn't enough


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## Williams2 (Sep 15, 2013)

NickZ said:


> https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/form-rs1-guidance
> 
> Even that requires you file the paperwork to renounce with the UK office. The Spanish ceremony isn't enough


Great I'll pass that onto those who are concerned about renoucing British nationality who worry about what 
the future might hold and any need to return to the UK in the post-Covid economic environment.

Although I note from the document, that you ONLY have the right to regain it ONCE after renouncing British 
citizenship in order to gain the citizenship of another country.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

You may give up British citizenship but you never stop being a British national. They are different things. British nationals can reclaim citizenship at any time.

https://www.immigrationdirect.co.uk/british-citizenship/registration-as-british-citizen.jsp#7


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## Williams2 (Sep 15, 2013)

Alcalaina said:


> You may give up British citizenship but you never stop being a British national. They are different things. British nationals can reclaim citizenship at any time.
> 
> https://www.immigrationdirect.co.uk/british-citizenship/registration-as-british-citizen.jsp#7


The bottom line with any working age British Expat is the freedom to live and work in the UK after changing 
to Spanish nationality and Spanish citizenship. As who knows what the future holds ?

While the UK was a member of the EU it was no problem, for those who are legally entitled to hold dual
nationality it was also no problem.


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## NickZ (Jun 26, 2009)

Williams2 said:


> Great I'll pass that onto those who are concerned about renoucing British nationality who worry about what
> the future might hold and any need to return to the UK in the post-Covid economic environment.
> 
> Although I note from the document, that you ONLY have the right to regain it ONCE after renouncing British
> citizenship in order to gain the citizenship of another country.


Does Spain actually make sure you file the paperwork with the UK? If you don't there isn't an actual loss of citizenship.

There are countries you can't even renounce.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

NickZ said:


> Does Spain actually make sure you file the paperwork with the UK? If you don't there isn't an actual loss of citizenship.
> 
> There are countries you can't even renounce.


The principal effect is you cannot claim that you are British to avoid a compliance with a Spanish law/legal requirement, otherwise nothing really changes.


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## Miss Jones11 (Jul 13, 2020)

Perhaps the Shamima Begum case whenever it concludes may be an education on this subject.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Williams2 said:


> Namely because Spain doesn't allow dual nationality whenever foreign citizens go
> through the process of acquiring Spanish nationality; then they assume as part of
> that process there's an oath of allegiance to Spain along with a renouncing of
> their British citizenship and allegiance, together with a surrender of their British
> passports.


Spain does recognise/ accept dual nationality, but not with Britain


> ... casos en los que España tiene convenios por doble nacionalidad. Los países en los que existe este acuerdo son los países iberoamericanos, Andorra, Filipinas, Guinea Ecuatorial y Portugal. Se considera país iberoamericano a aquel en el que el español o el portugués es una de las lenguas oficiales. Por ejemplo, Puerto Rico sí se considera país iberoamericano, pero no Haití, Jamaica, Trinidad y Tobago y Guyana.


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## Hepa (Apr 2, 2018)

I know many with Spanish passports and passports of other countries.

I am an immigrant, and after 10 years resident I applied for Spanish Nationality, no ceremony, no oath swearing, no exam. passport copied but not surrendered. Two witnesses needed to say I had integrated into the community.

I enquired from the U.K. Consulate, the legalities of renunciation, I was informed that in the eyes of the U.K. I have dual nationality, but in the eyes of the Spanish I am Spanish.

I haven't renewed my U.K. passport, 26 € bought me a Spanish one, somewhat cheaper methinks.

Quite a painless experience, no major difference, and I now have two surnames.


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## Williams2 (Sep 15, 2013)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Spain does recognise/ accept dual nationality, but not with Britain


Not unless England was defeated in 1588 and became one of the kingdoms of Phillip II of Spain. 
In which case if the Spanish Armada had won, not only would England have returned to the
Catholic faith but British citizens looking for Dual Nationality after acquiring Spanish citizenship in
the 2020's would have been accommodated, no problem.

*Another real possibility:*
Phillip II did become King of England when he married Mary Tudor, Queen of England and
although the marriage was childless, their marriage did last until Mary's death in 1558 
and therefore although Mary was Royal head of state, Phillip II was also King of England
during that period.

Now whether British Expats could challenge their exclusion from Dual Nationality
on the grounds that Phillip II was also King of England and you might say also
counted his realm in England, as well as his realm in Spain and beyond as part
of his kingdom is another matter.

Brits in Spain who would prefer dual citizenship upon taking Spanish nationality


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## Chopera (Apr 22, 2013)

I think we've had this conversation a few times on here. The conclusion I have come to is that Spain doesn't really want you to give up your British nationality when you become a Spanish citizen. What it wants is that you stop using it. It doesn't want you to start using your UK nationality/passport/NI number in some places, and your Spanish nationality/DNI/Social Security number in other places, when it suits you. From what I recall, you are told when you take out Spanish nationallity that it may be revoked if you attempt to use another nationality at the same time. That's not the same as taking away your British nationality which, as has been mentioned, Spain can't do anyway. What it can do though, is take away your Spanish nationality, if you start abusing the system.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

The way I understand the dual nationality issue in Spain is that in the eye of the Spanish state, you are a Spanish citizen and nothing else. You can neither use your British passport for any official purpose nor obtain diplomatic help from the British embassy or consulate (so if arrested, you won't be allowed to phone up the embassy). Upon naturalising as Spanish citizen, you will take oath of allegiance to the King and you are required to renounce (give up) British nationality. But they don't require proof of that (like formal deed of renunciation which is possible under UK law) or confiscate your UK passport. So most people who have naturalised just hang on to their UK passport and use it to enter UK (where you have the right of abode) but only ever use Spanish passport for leaving or entering Spain, and use DNI for all official purposes.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Sorry to be pedantic but let's stop confusing nationality and citizenship. You can't change your nationality - it is based on where you (or in some cases your parents) were born. 

Citizenship on the other hand is a legal relationship between the individual and the state, incurring rights and responsibilities.

https://www.economist.com/the-econo...ifference-between-nationality-and-citizenship


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## Chopera (Apr 22, 2013)

Alcalaina said:


> Sorry to be pedantic but let's stop confusing nationality and citizenship. You can't change your nationality - it is based on where you (or in some cases your parents) were born.
> 
> Citizenship on the other hand is a legal relationship between the individual and the state, incurring rights and responsibilities.
> 
> https://www.economist.com/the-econo...ifference-between-nationality-and-citizenship


When you apply for Spanish citizenship don't you apply for "nacionalidad Española"?


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Apart from semantics and historical origin, nowadays the words nationality and citizenship are used interchangeably. Under previous UK nationality laws, there were subtle and not-so-subtle differences between British National, British Citizen and British Subject, but under the current British Nationality Act, only British citizen has the right of abode in the United Kingdom. Thus spake the former Britain Expatforum mod!


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## Ilovepatnevin (Feb 26, 2009)

One small, but potentially important, impact for British immigrants taking Spanish citizenship is the effect on a person's will.
Any will must be in accordance Spanish law which is far more proscriptive than British law. A foreign will cannot be acted upon if it does not follow the principles set out in Spanish law.
This can be really complicated if, for example, you are married with children but have children from a previous marriage/relationship who don't live in Spain.
It would also be a pain if you want to leave a large proportion of your estate to someone/thing that is outside your immediate family.
In most cases, there probably wouldn't be any problem, but it might be significant for some people. As always, if in doubt, get legal advice (although finding a solicitor with the appropriate level of knowedge of both legal systems can be surprisingly difficult).


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Ilovepatnevin said:


> One small, but potentially important, impact for British immigrants taking Spanish citizenship is the effect on a person's will.
> Any will must be in accordance Spanish law which is far more proscriptive than British law. A foreign will cannot be acted upon if it does not follow the principles set out in Spanish law.
> This can be really complicated if, for example, you are married with children but have children from a previous marriage/relationship who don't live in Spain.
> It would also be a pain if you want to leave a large proportion of your estate to someone/thing that is outside your immediate family.
> In most cases, there probably wouldn't be any problem, but it might be significant for some people. As always, if in doubt, get legal advice (although finding a solicitor with the appropriate level of knowedge of both legal systems can be surprisingly difficult).


Under EU Inheritance Regulations Article 22, you can have your will made under the testamentary rules of your nationality (not citizenship) so if you are English or Welsh, you can leave whatever to whomever you wish.


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## Chopera (Apr 22, 2013)

baldilocks said:


> Under EU Inheritance Regulations Article 22, you can have your will made under the testamentary rules of your nationality (not citizenship) so if you are English or Welsh, you can leave whatever to whomever you wish.


Yes I think you can go to a notario and get them to stamp a letter stating that you want your foreign will to be acted on upon your death.


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## Williams2 (Sep 15, 2013)

So the bottom line is that if you do succeed in getting Spanish nationality, take the oath of
allegiance to the king of Spain and say you will renounce your British
nationality but are tardy in informing the British authorities about it.

Then assuming Spain doesn't insist on you handing over your British passport
before getting Spanish citizenship, then there's nothing to stop Ex-British Expats 
now Spanish citizens returning to live and work in the UK and not be subject to
Priti Patel's Points based immigration system as from 2021 and beyond.

So they might get away with it but rather sneaky though.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Williams2 said:


> So the bottom line is that if you do succeed in getting Spanish nationality, take the oath of
> allegiance to the king of Spain and say you will renounce your British
> nationality but are tardy in informing the British authorities about it.
> 
> ...


No. Britain doesn't mind dual or multiple citizenship at all. What Spain and some other countries require is of no consequence. Unless you have formally renounced your British citizenship according to the UK protocol (which Spain BTW doesn't insist on), in UK's eye you are still a citizen with the right of abode. So you aren't doing anything underhand. What Spain will think of what you are doing is another issue, which in extreme cases may lead to the cancellation of your Spanish citizenship but I haven't heard of any such incidence.


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## Williams2 (Sep 15, 2013)

Joppa said:


> No. Britain doesn't mind dual or multiple citizenship at all. What Spain and some other countries require is of no consequence. Unless you have formally renounced your British citizenship according to the UK protocol (which Spain BTW doesn't insist on), in UK's eye you are still a citizen with the right of abode. So you aren't doing anything underhand. What Spain will think of what you are doing is another issue, which in extreme cases may lead to the cancellation of your Spanish citizenship but I haven't heard of any such incidence.


Thanks - there have been petitions for Spain to allow British citizens to hold dual nationality
after acquiring Spanish citizenship like this one. Whether such petitions succeed or not is
another question.

Dual nationality for Brits who have resided in Spain for more than 10 years

Although saying that France and Spain are ready to sign a dual citizenship agreement
according to Europestreet news.

Europestreet news - Spain and France ready to sign dual citizenship agreement


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

Even when, in the "olden" days, the Spanish took your passport and formally returned it to the UK authorities when gaining Spanish citizenship, the UK authorities would send it back to you without question, as if you had just lost it. 

So to suggest that the UK would see it as sneaky seems odd. 

My wife became Spanish last year and did not make any commitment to follow any formal procedures with the UK.


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## Williams2 (Sep 15, 2013)

Overandout said:


> Even when, in the "olden" days, the Spanish took your passport and formally returned it to the UK authorities when gaining Spanish citizenship, the UK authorities would send it back to you without question, as if you had just lost it.
> 
> So to suggest that the UK would see it as sneaky seems odd.
> 
> My wife became Spanish last year and did not make any commitment to follow any formal procedures with the UK.


Sneaky from the point of view of the Spanish authorities and the ( would they really do that ? ) risk they could
cancel your Spanish citizenship.

Better to do what France & Spain are doing and put paid to such uncertainty by Britain & Spain signing up
to a dual citizenship agreement.


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## 95995 (May 16, 2010)

It is actually extremely difficult to renounce British citizenship. The oath of allegiance you swear in another country is irrelevant. If they were just to return your UK passport to the UK, the UK will return it to you - if they happen not or you have moved in the interim, you can apply for a new one (or simply go through the lost passport process if it has not expired). If you have a expired and replaced UK passport, then it would be wise to retain it. In any case, you can apply for a new British passport even if you haven't had one or if the one you have expired decades ago (I BTW I had no problems getting a new British passport almost 50 years after mine had expired).

This so-called renouncement is in practice all about how Spain views your citizenship/nationality, the UK has an entirely different view.

(The above, of course, applies to full, unrestricted British passports/citizenship.)


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## 95995 (May 16, 2010)

Oh, and a child born in another country to one parent who has 'full' British citizenship has an entitlement to British citizenship, unless he/she formally renounces it.


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## Williams2 (Sep 15, 2013)

Ok great so no danger of losing Spanish citizenship and the Spanish passport after getting Spanish citizenship 
because although they could ask you to renounce your British citizenship and with it your British passport
- in the end the renouncing of British citizenship to get Spanish citizenship is in effect meaningless ( for Brits ) 
because ( when all's said and done ) they cannot force you to do it on the British side.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

EverHopeful said:


> Oh, and a child born in another country to one parent who has 'full' British citizenship has an entitlement to British citizenship, unless he/she formally renounces it.


It is rather more complicated than that. A child born outside UK to a parent who is British otherwise than by descent (i.e. born, adopted or naturalised in UK) is British from birth. A child born outside UK to a parent who is citizen by descent isn't automatically British, unless the parent had lived in UK for 3 years prior to the birth or is in Crown service. A child who isn't automatically British can still register as British if he or she lives in UK with parents (both if married) for 3 years prior to reaching 18. There are a few other circumstances in which a child can be or become British. A child born abroad to a former British citizen who has renounced citizenship is the same situation as being born to a non-UK citizen, but the child may derive British citizenship from the other parent.


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## 95995 (May 16, 2010)

Joppa said:


> It is rather more complicated than that. A child born outside UK to a parent who is British otherwise than by descent (i.e. born, adopted or naturalised in UK) is British from birth. A* child born outside UK to a parent who is citizen by descent isn't automatically British, unless the parent had lived in UK for 3 years prior to the birth or is in Crown service. A child who isn't automatically British can still register as British if he or she lives in UK with parents (both if married) for 3 years prior to reaching 18. *There are a few other circumstances in which a child can be or become British. A child born abroad to a former British citizen who has renounced citizenship is the same situation as being born to a non-UK citizen, but the child may derive British citizenship from the other parent.


That must surely apply to children born after a certain year, I bow to your greater knowledge.

Still, the 'renunciation' would have to be done via the correct process, which as I understand it is not currently the case in relation to taking Spanish nationality. 

Does the UK give consideration to 'forced' renunciation? I only ask because I know that some countries do and that some of them have fairly recently done so.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Some countries are stricter than Spain about forcing you to renounce existing citizenship as a condition for naturalisation. UK government warns people about consequences of renouncing citizenship, not just for themselves but for future children etc and encourages you to take professional advice. After renouncing citizenship formally, you have just one chance to regain your citizenship. UK government regards most naturalisations to be a voluntary matter so you take full responsibility for any consequences. A few countries make you a citizen automatically, for example after marrying a national. This is called involuntary naturalisation and usually there is no necessity to renounce existing nationality.


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## 95995 (May 16, 2010)

EverHopeful said:


> *That must surely apply to children born after a certain year,* I bow to your greater knowledge.
> 
> Still, the 'renunciation' would have to be done via the correct process, which as I understand it is not currently the case in relation to taking Spanish nationality.
> 
> Does the UK give consideration to 'forced' renunciation? I only ask because I know that some countries do and that some of them have fairly recently done so.


Joppa, the reason I said this is because I know for a fact that there have been people to whom what you say did not apply (as a result of a clause in the Australian Constitution that says that if you have another citizenship you do not qualify to be elected to the Australian Federal Parliament or Senate).


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

The distinction between citizenship by descent and otherwise than by descent came in with 1981 British Nationality Act, which took full effect on 1st January 1983. There have been further clarifications and modifications since.
https://assets.publishing.service.g...itizenship-automatic-acquisition-v3.0-ext.pdf gives full details of status quo.


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## Williams2 (Sep 15, 2013)

Joppa said:


> Some countries are stricter than Spain about forcing you to renounce existing citizenship as a condition for naturalisation. UK government warns people about consequences of renouncing citizenship, not just for themselves but for future children etc and encourages you to take professional advice.


Yes some countries are stricter than Spain which by the feedback looks quite toothless when it comes
to enforcing single citizenship. 
So it's another example of De Jure and De Facto with the fact of the matter being that you could very
'pull the wool over their eyes' with dual citizenship, so long as the British side has no problems with you
retaining and renewing your British passport after acquiring Spanish citizenship.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Williams2 said:


> Yes some countries are stricter than Spain which by the feedback looks quite toothless when it comes
> to enforcing single citizenship.
> So it's another example of De Jure and De Facto with the fact of the matter being that you could very
> well get away with dual citizenship, so long as the British side has no problems with you retaining
> and renewing your British passport after acquiring Spanish citizenship.


It's not "getting away" with anything; it's following the legalities according to different laws in different countries. There are many countries where renounce nationality is not considered, Algeria for example, so you can be Algerian and Spanish for example because Algeria doesn't conceive the idea of you negating that and Spain doesn't ask you to stop being Algerian.


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## Williams2 (Sep 15, 2013)

Pesky Wesky said:


> It's not "getting away" with anything; it's following the legalities according to different laws in different countries. There are many countries where renounce nationality is not considered, Algeria for example, so you can be Algerian and Spanish for example because Algeria doesn't conceive the idea of you negating that and Spain doesn't ask you to stop being Algerian.


Ok then - changed it to 'pull the wool over their eyes' as far as Spain is concerned - how would you word it ??

We can all agree that Spain's stance against Brits holding or retaining British citizenship after obtaining Spanish 
citizenship is more or less unenforceable ( or Spain chooses not to force the issue ) and argue the toss
on the legalities.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Williams2 said:


> Ok then - changed it to 'pull the wool over their eyes' as far as Spain is concerned - how would you word it ??


 I don't know, but I wouldn't describe it as pulling the wool over their eyes or as an act of deception as I think over the years that this procedure has taken place they have twigged what is going on.
Maybe I could say that in the eyes of the Spanish I am Spanish and in Britain I've got dual nationality.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Probably a daft question : once I become a Spanish citizen, if I give back my British passport, would I be able to enter the UK post-Brexit with my Spanish ID card?

I have zero intention of going to the UK unless something awful happens to my son but I ought to know just in case.


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## 95995 (May 16, 2010)

mrypg9 said:


> Probably a daft question : once I become a Spanish citizen, if I give back my British passport, would I be able to enter the UK post-Brexit with my Spanish ID card?
> 
> I have zero intention of going to the UK unless something awful happens to my son but I ought to know just in case.


90 days in 180 if you were to do that, but the UK would very likely require you to enter on a passport, as opposed to an ID card (ID card entry is an EU thing).

Of course you would have to bear in mind that you might well need more than the 90 in 180.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

mrypg9 said:


> Probably a daft question : once I become a Spanish citizen, if I give back my British passport, would I be able to enter the UK post-Brexit with my Spanish ID card?
> 
> I have zero intention of going to the UK unless something awful happens to my son but I ought to know just in case.


We don't have any details of post-Brexit immigration procedure for EU citizens. There is a talk that national ID card will no longer be a valid form of immigration document and you need to show your Spanish passport, and you will be subject to the same immigration rule as any other passenger, i.e. you need to gain 'leave to enter' and getting stamped for 6 months, unless this part changes as well, like reduced to 3 months in line with Schengen rule for UK nationals. 
I have relatives who are Australian-UK dual nationals but travel solely on Australian passport (UK passport having expired) and just get stamped for 6 months on entering UK. They must use Australian passport to re-enter Australia.


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## 95995 (May 16, 2010)

Joppa said:


> We don't have any details of post-Brexit immigration procedure for EU citizens. There is a talk that national ID card will no longer be a valid form of immigration document and you need to show your Spanish passport, and you will be subject to the same immigration rule as any other passenger, i.e. you need to gain 'leave to enter' and getting stamped for 6 months, unless this part changes as well, like reduced to 3 months in line with Schengen rule for UK nationals.
> I have relatives who are Australian-UK dual nationals but travel solely on Australian passport (UK passport having expired) and just get stamped for 6 months on entering UK. They must use Australian passport to re-enter Australia.


For EU citizens entering on EU passports they have already agreed to the 90 day in 180 rule. I don't have time to find the link, but I'm sure you can do a search. 6 months at a time in the UK is a special and individual arrangement between the UK and Australia.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

EverHopeful said:


> 90 days in 180 if you were to do that, but the UK would very likely require you to enter on a passport, as opposed to an ID card (ID card entry is an EU thing).
> 
> Of course you would have to bear in mind that you might well need more than the 90 in 180.


I thought as much. There are still seven years to go on my UK passport so I guess I might as well keep it.

There could be no circumstances which would require me to remain in the UK for anything longer than a week, a fortnight at the most.


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## NickZ (Jun 26, 2009)

EverHopeful said:


> For EU citizens entering on EU passports they have already agreed to the 90 day in 180 rule. I don't have time to find the link, but I'm sure you can do a search. 6 months at a time in the UK is a special and individual arrangement between the UK and Australia.


More than just Australia. All of North America and likely other countries.


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## 95995 (May 16, 2010)

NickZ said:


> More than just Australia. All of North America and likely other countries.


*All *of North America? A number of US expats on the French forum seem to think that for the US it is 90/180. 

My point was though that such arrangements are individual agreements between the countries concerned.

Having a passport from a North American country or Australia was not really the question and would not be the case for many British expats in Spain, possibly the majority.


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## NickZ (Jun 26, 2009)

I meant for the UK and Ireland. 180 days. Both countries are outside the Schengen zone and have special ties to the English speaking world.


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## 95995 (May 16, 2010)

NickZ said:


> I meant for the UK and Ireland. 180 days. Both countries are outside the Schengen zone and have special ties to the English speaking world.


Which is a *very *special arrangement.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Under the current UK immigration law, visa-free standard visit for non-EEA and Swiss citizen is 6 months or 'up to' 6 months (you can be given shorter time at the discretion of immigration officer). Unless the law is changed, from January EU citizens will come under the same regulation. All that UK and EU have agreed on so far is visa-free entry for a tourist/general visit for UK citizens in EU and EU citizens in UK. The proposed new UK immigration act from January specifies 6 months for a visit for all, EU and non-EU citizens alike.

Visiting the UK
EU, EEA and Swiss citizens and other non-visa nationals will not require a visa to enter the UK when visiting the UK for up to 6 months. All migrants looking to enter the UK for other reasons (such as work or study) will need to apply for entry clearance in advance.

Crossing the UK border
Citizens of Australia, Canada, Japan, New Zealand, the United States of America, Singapore and South Korea - with a biometric chip in their passports - will continue to be able to use ePassport gates to pass through the border on arrival. EU, EEA and Swiss citizens will also be able to use ePassport gates (this will be kept under review).

Until at least January 2026 we’ll continue to recognise identity cards used for travel by EU citizens and their EU family members who are both resident in the UK before the end of the transition period and hold status under the EU Settlement Scheme. We will also recognise ICAO compliant identity cards from this group beyond 2026.

For newly arriving migrants, we intend to phase out the use of insecure identity documents and will set out further details on this shortly.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/new-immigration-system-what-you-need-to-know#visiting-the-uk


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## Williams2 (Sep 15, 2013)

mrypg9 said:


> I thought as much. There are still seven years to go on my UK passport so I guess I might as well keep it.
> 
> There could be no circumstances which would require me to remain in the UK for anything longer than a week, a fortnight at the most.


Although during the pandemic and until they find a cure or a vaccine for the virus, your stay in the UK
could be longer in the event of a national or local downdown or travel restrictions.


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## Williams2 (Sep 15, 2013)

NickZ said:


> I meant for the UK and Ireland. 180 days. Both countries are outside the Schengen zone and have special ties to the English speaking world.


Also both countries remain in the Common Travel Area ( CTA ) regardless of Britain leaving the EU.

Quote:
On 5 March 2020, the British government introduced the Immigration Bill which will end free
movement of EU citizens from 1 January 2021, but makes exceptions for Irish citizens. 
The bill proposes to amend the Immigration Act 1971 by adding An Irish citizen does not require
leave to enter or remain in the United Kingdom.

Also:
British citizens have never been treated as foreigners under Irish law, having never 
been subject to the Aliens Act 1935 or to any orders made under that Act.
British citizens can thus move to Ireland to live, work or retire and unlike other EU citizens, 
they are not required to demonstrate having sufficient resources or have private 
health insurance in order to retire. 
This is due to the fact that British citizens are also entitled to use Irish public services 
on the same basis as Irish citizens in Ireland.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Williams2 said:


> Although during the pandemic and until they find a cure or a vaccine for the virus, your stay in the UK could be longer
> in the event of a national or local downdown or travel restrictions.


Not very likely. At the first signs of any closing f borders I'd be off.

The only circumstances under which I'd travel to the UK would be the death/funeral or serious illness of my son and in both those cases my stay would be the shortest possible.

In either case there would be little of use that I could possibly do.


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