# minimal finances required to retire



## stefano1952

Hello,
I am new to this forum. I am an Italian and US cittizen and have been thinking of retiring back in the homeland.
I have lots of question that I hope that some of you might be able to help with.
I am 2 years shy of collecting SS, but would be able to have finances of around $20,000. till my SS kicks in in reasing that by almost double.
I am originally from the Ancona area and would like to move back there, and I would be looking to rent.
Some questions that come to mind, would $20,000.00 at first be enough finances
for a single person? Would I vbe able to get a Carte Sanitaria? Are there any tax remifications both in Italy and back in the US? Even if I was to move back to Italy permenatelly as a retired individual? I would have no family support, as all of my family is deceased, so i would be on my own.
I do speak Italian, but not fluently, I would say at about 50% fluency.
Any imput would be appreciated.


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## Ligman

Hi Stefano1952
guess you were born 1952! I just retired to Northern italy from UK and I am very glad I did. Like you my state pension doesn't kick in until 2013. 
From my experience we did a budget before we came last November and have kept to it pretty well so far. We are a couple. I see also you will be renting
We have a nice one bedroom room apartment 70 miles east of venice and it is 470 Euro a month. Next month we move into a 2 bedroom 100 sq m apartment in the same house for 600. Check rental properties on www.casa.it On top of that you have heating which is massively expensive.. 300 to 600 per month in the winter, say 4 months. You pay for water and recycling which isn't a lot. Food here at the supermarkets is the same as UK so you can work that out. Car fuel is 1.60 per litre and car insurance is astronomic.

For tax, I don't believe there is an issue as long as you don't want to work in Italy or draw any income other than bank transfers.

We got our National Health card after a bit of hassle as there were new forms required for European Union Citizens. However you need to start off with 1) a Codice Fiscale from any Italian Embassy, you can do no transactions without this. 2) a Residence permit from your local "Anagrafe" office for the local commune before you can go to the Sanitaria. 3) An Italian Carta d'Identita before you can buy a car or moped. The Health Card will entitle you to be in the health service and see a doctor for free. You need to check what documents you require at each stage of these processes, these are different for US citizens than EU citizens. This all takes time and a LOT of queuing. (A LOT!)

It's worth it in the end!
Good luck


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## stefano1952

Thank you.
I do belive that the Codice Fiscale was taken care of by the Italian Consulate here in the US, and I do have an identity card from Ancona, even though it is in estere, so I am good there. I will have to re-think moving back to the Marche, considering the awful winter that they have been having there as of late. Perhaps moving a bit south of there, say Puglia?

Thanks again


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## Ligman

stefano1952 said:


> Thank you.
> I do belive that the Codice Fiscale was taken care of by the Italian Consulate here in the US, and I do have an identity card from Ancona, even though it is in estere, so I am good there. I will have to re-think moving back to the Marche, considering the awful winter that they have been having there as of late. Perhaps moving a bit south of there, say Puglia?
> 
> Thanks again


I think the south has had worse snow than we have in the North East, as we haven't seen any at all! However the Grand canal in Venice has been frozen for the first time since 1929. It's been very cold but isn't this exceptional, worst frosts for 30 years. maybe next winter will be the warmest for 30 years and you'll regret not returning to Ancona. The further south you move the hotter it will be in summer (air-con costs!).
All the best, not an easy decision for you!


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## xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxenjoylife

Hi all,

I am also thinking to move to Italy for good
still open where to go ...maby Liguria or veneto....
Liguria because it is close to south of france and the
clima in winter is acceptable on the other hand i am
in love with Venice so much culture etc
difficult to decide really......


in this case with my italian passport i can get a free
healthcare card even though i am not in pension yet?

there is one more good link for properties which is Subito.it - Annunci gratuiti Case, Auto usate, Moto, Offerte lavoro e annunci Usato

best regards


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## Ligman

enjoylife said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I am also thinking to move to Italy for good
> still open where to go ...maby Liguria or veneto....
> Liguria because it is close to south of france and the
> clima in winter is acceptable on the other hand i am
> in love with Venice so much culture etc
> difficult to decide really......
> 
> 
> in this case with my italian passport i can get a free
> healthcare card even though i am not in pension yet?
> 
> there is one more good link for properties which is Subito.it - Annunci gratuiti Case, Auto usate, Moto, Offerte lavoro e annunci Usato
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> best regards


Hello Enjoy life
We came to Veneto last November and the weather has been really cold since we got here BUT just about everyday we have sun all day.
We joined the Italian health service and we are not pension age, so joining has nothing to do with Pensions.
This is how we did it
We got an S1 form from the health service in our previous country of residence. This is a European Document and is essential, I think it would be more difficult to get once you are in Italy. The S1 form is called "Co-ordination of Social Security systems... Registering for Health care cover EU Regulations 884/04 and 987/09"

You cannot go further without it.

We joined the "Servizio Sanitario Nazionale -Regione del Veneto" although it took a few visits, a lot of queuing in the Ex Silas office "Anagarfe" in Portogruaro and a trip to the regional office as well.

You are asked to nominate a doctor and we chose one who operates free of charge, there is a list at the registration Office of doctors who are free but it may be better to chose one before you go to the office.
You also need "Codice Fiscale"and your resident's Permit, but I took everything I could lay my hands on, my Passport and driving licence, better still take your Italian Carta d'Identita if it is issued. after you have queued for over an hour it is annoying to find you don't have all the documents you need!

i don't know about Liguria but I guess it will be similar

Good Luck


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## xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxenjoylife

Ligman said:


> Hello Enjoy life
> We came to Veneto last November and the weather has been really cold since we got here BUT just about everyday we have sun all day.
> We joined the Italian health service and we are not pension age, so joining has nothing to do with Pensions.
> This is how we did it
> We got an S1 form from the health service in our previous country of residence. This is a European Document and is essential, I think it would be more difficult to get once you are in Italy. The S1 form is called "Co-ordination of Social Security systems... Registering for Health care cover EU Regulations 884/04 and 987/09"
> 
> You cannot go further without it.
> 
> We joined the "Servizio Sanitario Nazionale -Regione del Veneto" although it took a few visits, a lot of queuing in the Ex Silas office "Anagarfe" in Portogruaro and a trip to the regional office as well.
> 
> You are asked to nominate a doctor and we chose one who operates free of charge, there is a list at the registration Office of doctors who are free but it may be better to chose one before you go to the office.
> You also need "Codice Fiscale"and your resident's Permit, but I took everything I could lay my hands on, my Passport and driving licence, better still take your Italian Carta d'Identita if it is issued. after you have queued for over an hour it is annoying to find you don't have all the documents you need!
> 
> i don't know about Liguria but I guess it will be similar
> 
> Good Luck




Hello Ligman,

thanks a lot for your time to explain how to obtain the 
tessera sanitaria......the problem for me is, that I am
actually living in spain and i have a privat health insurance
(which of course i like to cancel it is getting really expensive now)
and cannot get the S1 form......not in Austria not in Spain......

it used to be free healthcare for everybody in Italy but I am
talking about 20 years ago when i used to live there........

Do you live in Venice? yes indeed it gets very cold there in winter,
but all the region is so beautiful good food&wine lots of culture
and the venetian people are very helpful and nice.......

best regards
enjoylife


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## Ed in Italy

Ligman,
I'm a US citizen, aged 59, resident in Nothern Italy (Milan) since '88. Officially unemployed since March '09, unemployment benefits will be running out in June. I'll probably retire here (2013?) tho' I feel guilty leaving my sister in the US to deal with my elderly parents. I surely can't go back to the live in the US unless I have a job, or am retired. Don't know what to do really.
Horribly high fuel, insurance and heating costs. And you're glad you retired to Northern Italy!? I guess it's worse in the UK, eh? I assume you're getting a UK pension?

Ed



Ligman said:


> Hi Stefano1952
> guess you were born 1952! I just retired to Northern italy from UK and I am very glad I did. Like you my state pension doesn't kick in until 2013.
> From my experience we did a budget before we came last November and have kept to it pretty well so far. We are a couple. I see also you will be renting
> We have a nice one bedroom room apartment 70 miles east of venice and it is 470 Euro a month. Next month we move into a 2 bedroom 100 sq m apartment in the same house for 600. Check rental properties on Case e appartamenti in vendita ? Annunci immobiliari - Casa.it On top of that you have heating which is massively expensive.. 300 to 600 per month in the winter, say 4 months. You pay for water and recycling which isn't a lot. Food here at the supermarkets is the same as UK so you can work that out. Car fuel is 1.60 per litre and car insurance is astronomic.
> 
> For tax, I don't believe there is an issue as long as you don't want to work in Italy or draw any income other than bank transfers.
> 
> We got our National Health card after a bit of hassle as there were new forms required for European Union Citizens. However you need to start off with 1) a Codice Fiscale from any Italian Embassy, you can do no transactions without this. 2) a Residence permit from your local "Anagrafe" office for the local commune before you can go to the Sanitaria. 3) An Italian Carta d'Identita before you can buy a car or moped. The Health Card will entitle you to be in the health service and see a doctor for free. You need to check what documents you require at each stage of these processes, these are different for US citizens than EU citizens. This all takes time and a LOT of queuing. (A LOT!)
> 
> It's worth it in the end!
> Good luck


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## Ligman

Hi Ed
To answer your question, let me tell you about my day, today. I got up at 7, showered, cycled to the historic town centre on a cycle path (10 mins each way) went to one of the 6 bakers in the town and bought fresh baked ciabatta, then went to buy some prosciutto crudo. came back had breakfast. Sat and read for an hour then drove to the beach at Brussa where there is a woodland park and walked along the seashore collecting shells for my granddaughter. We had our prosciutto picnic and we only sawa handful of other people on the beach, it was 12 degrees but very warm in the sun with a cloudless sky. After that we sat out and had a coffee, then we came back home. 
In Scotland today I think they were expecting snow.
I have a very small private pension and I am supplementing this with savings until my UK state pension kicks in. We try to be very careful with all spending, but it is all worth it for the daily pleasure we get for not living in a cold and damp and miserable environment which is the north of UK for 6-7 months a year.
We miss our son and his family, they can visit us as often as they like, but don't have elderly relatives. That part is the difficult choice to make.
Good luck with your decision!
Tony


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## stefano1952

*minimal finances reuwired to retire*



Ed in Italy said:


> Ligman,
> I'm a US citizen, aged 59, resident in Nothern Italy (Milan) since '88. Officially unemployed since March '09, unemployment benefits will be running out in June. I'll probably retire here (2013?) tho' I feel guilty leaving my sister in the US to deal with my elderly parents. I surely can't go back to the live in the US unless I have a job, or am retired. Don't know what to do really.
> Horribly high fuel, insurance and heating costs. And you're glad you retired to Northern Italy!? I guess it's worse in the UK, eh? I assume you're getting a UK pension?
> 
> Ed


Hi Ed,
Since you are a US citizen but reside in Italy, have you any ideas as to what the tax implications might be or are when one is collecting Social Security?
Is it taxed in Italy? I am an Italian and US Citizen.

Grazie
Stefano


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## xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxenjoylife

stefano1952 said:


> Hello,
> I am new to this forum. I am an Italian and US cittizen and have been thinking of retiring back in the homeland.
> I have lots of question that I hope that some of you might be able to help with.
> I am 2 years shy of collecting SS, but would be able to have finances of around $20,000. till my SS kicks in in reasing that by almost double.
> I am originally from the Ancona area and would like to move back there, and I would be looking to rent.
> Some questions that come to mind, would $20,000.00 at first be enough finances
> for a single person? Would I vbe able to get a Carte Sanitaria? Are there any tax remifications both in Italy and back in the US? Even if I was to move back to Italy permenatelly as a retired individual? I would have no family support, as all of my family is deceased, so i would be on my own.
> I do speak Italian, but not fluently, I would say at about 50% fluency.
> Any imput would be appreciated.



Ciao Stefano,

did you decide where to move in Italy?

I am flying tomorrow to Liguria to find
out, if i like to settle there and which place
is not too expensive...next time will be the
venetian region before take my final decision...

best regards


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