# Please help me solve this



## Joe Kilroy (Feb 21, 2011)

I am UK citizen who lives and works in Spain ( English teacher on Skype).

Until last November I lived and worked for 6 years in Moscow, Russia as an English teacher.

I now live with my girlfriend not far from the Gibraltar border.

I am not mobile to find work and desperately need to buy some transport.

The thing is, 3 months before leaving Moscow I bought a brand new 150.cc Vespa scooter, which is now sitting in my friend's garage in Moscow.

I bought it legally and have papers for it, but it has no license plates.

( A driving license and plates are not required in Russia for a bike of this size and scooters are ignored by police).

I desperately want to bring my Vespa to Spain, to be mobile and give me a chance of finding proper work and to be mobile.

I enquired about having my Vespa shipped here from Russia but as it has no plates and as I do not yet have my driving license, was told it would be kept at the border for months by Spanish customs and with import duties etc etc would in the end cost me more than the bike cost itself. ( about 2200 EU).


I am planning in the next few weeks to go back to the UK and do an intensive motorbike driving course and get my full motorbike license so i can drive my scooter legally, if and when it can ever be brought here.


Is there ANYTHING I can do to get my scooter here?

I even thought of riding it here from Russia, but as soon as I left Russia I would have problems because it has no plates. 

I can speak Russian, does anyone know of any Russians living in Spain who might be able to help me?


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

I´m sure someone will correct me if I´m wrong, but I think in order to drive a motorbike over 125 cc in Spain you either need a full UK driver´s licence or else take a motorcycle test in Spain?

I can well believe the bureaucracy will be a problem - it´s bad enough trying to import a car with UK plates. Might be easiest to sell the beloved Vespa and buy a cheap moto here in Spain ... the test isn´t difficult, apparently.


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## Joe Kilroy (Feb 21, 2011)

Alcalaina said:


> I´m sure someone will correct me if I´m wrong, but I think in order to drive a motorbike over 125 cc in Spain you either need a full UK driver´s licence or else take a motorcycle test in Spain?
> 
> I can well believe the bureaucracy will be a problem - it´s bad enough trying to import a car with UK plates. Might be easiest to sell the beloved Vespa and buy a cheap moto here in Spain ... the test isn´t difficult, apparently.


Thank you.

Yes, I plan to take my UK license soon.

But my problem was : Is it possible to get my beloved new non-European Vespa to Spain from Russia, without it costing me as much as the original cost of the bike to import it?

Was there ANY way of doing it? 


The sad and hard answer to swallow is "NO".

The bureacracy is so so long and soooooo expensive. Ridiculously expensive.

I am sorry, I like Andalucia, the nature, and of course the weather.


But to punish someone by effectively FORCING them to sell their vehicle because the State wants to squeeze every last penny out of them and so makes it prohibitively expensive, this is pretty disgusting. 

I don't know how other European countries deal with this, but this has done nothing to boost my love of the Spanish state.


I lived in Russia for 6 years where the State is hardly known for being easy on people. But it was nothing compared to this. At least I paid my bribes and fines directly into the hands of the police, and didn't have them extracted "legally" through the back door by faceless criminals masquerading as honest politicians.


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## bristolbrett (Oct 30, 2010)

Joe Kilroy said:


> Thank you.
> 
> Yes, I plan to take my UK licence soon.
> 
> .


Just to be really clear. Alcalaina's point is that you can take the UK motorbike test but still NOT be able to ride a bike here in Spain.

You either need to take the UK full DRIVER'S test OR just take the Spanish BIKE test here.

She wasn't 100% sure, but I've read that too and I'd hate to see you spend all that dough in the UK and still not be able to use a bike here.

Glad things are going well for you here in Spain, the obvious bike issue notwithstanding of course.


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## nigele2 (Dec 25, 2009)

Joe Kilroy said:


> I lived in Russia for 6 years where the State is hardly known for being easy on people. But it was nothing compared to this. At least I paid my bribes and fines directly into the hands of the police, and didn't have them extracted "legally" through the back door by faceless criminals masquerading as honest politicians.


Welcome to Spain. But do remember it is the fascists, bandit rich, and crooks who run spain. Normal people are great, friendly and very interesting. 

Sadly they suffer from extreme apathy when it comes to their country


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

nigele2 said:


> Sadly they suffer from extreme apathy when it comes to their country


Not all. Just some.


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## nigele2 (Dec 25, 2009)

Alcalaina said:


> Not all. Just some.


 But clearly not a majority


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## Joe Kilroy (Feb 21, 2011)

Alcalaina said:


> Not all. Just some.


thanks all.

Yup, same story everywhere, the normal people are great.

Hmmm.... i had no idea that a full UK - motorbike license wouldn't enable me to ride a 150 cc scooter here in Spain? 

How can I do a test here for it, I don't (yet) speak Spanish ?

Maybe it's possible for me to do it in Gibraltar.

Does anyone know for SURE that a UK full motorbike license isn't valid here in Spain?


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## Joe Kilroy (Feb 21, 2011)

Joe Kilroy said:


> thanks all.
> 
> Yup, same story everywhere, the normal people are great.
> 
> ...


I've just had a Russian friend in Moscow suggest that I have the bike sent from Russia to Spain in parts.


I wonder if this could be a way around it?


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## VFR (Dec 23, 2009)

Yes of course you can ride a bike/scooter here in Spain if you have the right entitlements on a UK licence, but you need to check what the current rules are regarding direct access in the UK as they may well have changed of late.

This is assuming that you are a UK resident (yes I read your first post)
You are of an age to allow direct access.
Direct access means just that, once you pass the test you can ride.

The scooter in Russia ?
IMO leave it there and spend yout time/effort/money looking for a Spanish plated item.


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## Joe Kilroy (Feb 21, 2011)

playamonte said:


> Yes of course you can ride a bike/scooter here in Spain if you have the right entitlements on a UK licence, but you need to check what the current rules are regarding direct access in the UK as they may well have changed of late.
> 
> This is assuming that you are a UK resident (yes I read your first post)
> You are of an age to allow direct access.
> ...


Thank you.

I didn't know what Direct Access was but found this:

Motorcycles you can ride : Directgov - Motoring


I'm over 21 so can do the test for a big bike which will allow me to ride any size bike. 

Then, I can hopefully buy a Spanish plated scooter?

I hope so.

As for the Russian Vespa. Yes, I have to accept it's gone.


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## dinnow (Feb 14, 2011)

Without someone coming up with a reliable source for the notion that you need a UK car driving licence to be able to drive a 150cc motor cycle in Spain, I would simply treat it as wrong.
You need a FULL UK driving licence. That is not in dispute. A provisional licence won't do. But I believe that a full bike licence issued in the UK will be accepted anywhere in the EU and that you can legally ride your bike there provided that you are the legal minimum age - 18 in Spain - which you clearly are. Anything else is illogical.


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## Joe Kilroy (Feb 21, 2011)

dinnow said:


> Without someone coming up with a reliable source for the notion that you need a UK car driving licence to be able to drive a 150cc motor cycle in Spain, I would simply treat it as wrong.
> You need a FULL UK driving licence. That is not in dispute. A provisional licence won't do. But I believe that a full bike licence issued in the UK will be accepted anywhere in the EU and that you can legally ride your bike there provided that you are the legal minimum age - 18 in Spain - which you clearly are. Anything else is illogical.


Thanks Dinnow, I'd tend to agreee with you, and hope it is true.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Joe Kilroy said:


> Thank you.
> 
> I didn't know what Direct Access was but found this:
> 
> ...



but that link doesn't say you can ride in SPAIN

I do know that you can't HIRE a motorbike here on a UK bike license - it has to be a full drivers license

I'm not sure about riding your own though


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## dinnow (Feb 14, 2011)

xabiachica said:


> but that link doesn't say you can ride in SPAIN
> 
> I do know that you can't HIRE a motorbike here on a UK bike license - it has to be a full drivers license
> 
> I'm not sure about riding your own though


I think that you and others may be confusing full and provisional; and car and bike. You need a FULL licence to ride a bike over 125cc in Spain. But that's a full BIKE licence. No-one has come up with anything to say you need a FULL CAR licence. And such a provision would be ridiculous. It would be saying that in order to ride a motorbike in Spain a Brit would have to pass a test in a car, presumably never having ridden a motorbike.
I don't think so.


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## Joe Kilroy (Feb 21, 2011)

dinnow said:


> I think that you and others may be confusing full and provisional; and car and bike. You need a FULL licence to ride a bike over 125cc in Spain. But that's a full BIKE licence. No-one has come up with anything to say you need a FULL CAR licence. And such a provision would be ridiculous. It would be saying that in order to ride a motorbike in Spain a Brit would have to pass a test in a car, presumably never having ridden a motorbike.
> I don't think so.


I hope you're right Dinnow. But from what I've seen so far, I'm not sure logic is a criteria the Spanish authrorities operate by. It wouldn't surprise me to find out that I need a Bike license to drive a car, a car license to drive a bike, and a scuba diving license to pilot a plane.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

I just can't imagine why you'd want to bring it here. It's going to cost you more than the value of the scooter to bring it over in both time and money.
Sell it.


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## dinnow (Feb 14, 2011)

Joe Kilroy said:


> I hope you're right Dinnow. But from what I've seen so far, I'm not sure logic is a criteria the Spanish authrorities operate by. It wouldn't surprise me to find out that I need a Bike license to drive a car, a car license to drive a bike, and a scuba diving license to pilot a plane.


 You may be right. But Spain is in the EU and cannot treat other EU citizens differently from its own. The bike hire thing cannot be true or all Spaniards would have to have a car driving licence to hire a bike and the bike hire firm would go out of business. I'm sure the whole thing is very straightforward.


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## Joe Kilroy (Feb 21, 2011)

Pesky Wesky said:


> I just can't imagine why you'd want to bring it here. It's going to cost you more than the value of the scooter to bring it over in both time and money.
> Sell it.


because i love it and saved up a long time for it. 

But we must part, alas. 

I am now re-thinking what to do.

After discussions with my partner, I've decided that I will do a full UK car driving course and test and then buy a plated car in Spain.

My dream is to own some kind of Camper Van, preferably a VW classic Camper Van.

If anyone knows anything about getting hold of one of these second-hand in Spain, or something similar, I would be very grateful.


ps- Thanks for all the info about the scooter. Your advice helped me to make a decision, and go in a new direction.


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## Xose (Dec 10, 2008)

Just to be clear, the Spanish license is the same as the UK one. One has UK the other E. Appart from that, and a few minor I.D. details, they have the same entitlements.

My swap was like for like. Whatever I had in the UK, car, bike, 3.5Kg truck, trailers etc., I have on the Spanish swap. So, bonus as in Spain you normally have to take a different test for the 3.5T truck - and trailer. With the UK license swap, you get it for free.

Wouldn't trust myself driving one for a living though LOL.


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