# FATCA ???



## Howard_Z (7 mo ago)

How much money in foreign banks triggers USA's FATCA ?


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## amcan13 (Sep 28, 2021)

If you have over $10k total at any time during year you must file FBAR. It is more than Bank accounts too. If say you have life insurance that has mutual fund as backend, that is counted too. 
If you wife is dual citizen her bank accounts now count too. 
There are two separate parts of reporting, the FBAR and the earning of income with foreign investments. The federal income tax filing also has a form but it takes a lot of income to trigger it. The FBAR is usually triggered much more easily. Remember the Philippines banks have to report you to USA thus they have your social security number. They don't want the US dollars being shut off by not giving info to USA. 
The FBAR is easy way to ensure all the money transfers done during the year are covered. Not filing could lead to serious account actions in both countries. An FBAR filing does not cause any increased taxes because you have a legal right to move your money around the world.


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## M.C.A. (Feb 24, 2013)

Howard_Z said:


> How much money in foreign banks triggers USA's FATCA ?


You'll be doing your taxes online and the bank balance amount is $10,000 USD plus if you own property, home or condo here.


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## amcan13 (Sep 28, 2021)

Owning land or a home does not trigger FATCA. You have to either have financial assets or earn income to trigger stuff.


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## Lunkan (Aug 28, 2020)

Howard_Z said:


> How much money in foreign banks triggers USA's FATCA ?


 Dont many Americans claim USA is the most free country? 

As soon as Swedes live over 6 months outside Sweden in a year and tell Swedish tax "BIR", then they dont bother about you anymore. (There can be exceptions if having real estate or business in Sweden still which can make them counting you as having Sweden as the main tax location anyway,) 
Then Sweden only tax retirement payout coming from Sweden..


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## amcan13 (Sep 28, 2021)

Who claims that? I would think current headlines show we lack basic freedoms. 
The US taxes you forever. If your spouse gets dual citizenship then now all her assets get taxed too. 
There is only a break from double taxing between countries and the Philippines is nice about not taxing retirement income.


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## Lunkan (Aug 28, 2020)

amcan13 said:


> Who claims that? I would think current headlines show we lack basic freedoms.
> The US taxes you forever. If your spouse gets dual citizenship then now all her assets get taxed too.


 Many Americans claim USA is best in the world at everything even about things when its far from the truth. Thats why I get into heated arguments with Americans now and then, when I "have to" correct them and they dont like to hear the truth  


amcan13 said:


> There is only a break from double taxing between countries and the Philippines is nice about not taxing retirement income.


 Is there ANY country - USA ? - taxing retirememt pay from other country?? 
Its suppoused to be taxed in the country where it was earned by retirement pays are basicly income earned by work but with POSTPONED income tax. 

Although Phils had some DISCUSSION taxing all TRANSFERS of money coming from abroad, BUT the main idea behind that was to get tax at NEW work incomes by people - including Filipinos - who worked IN PHILS geting paid from abroad for such as internet income, CHEATING about taxes by not telling BIR by income from work done in Phils are suppoused to be taxed in Phils (except if other deal with other country) by internet incomes are very hard to get to know of by BIR if the earner cheat and dont tell. But I believe they modified/skiped that idea so not include transfers of savings and retirement pay expats have, because otherwice would expats move elsewhere and Phils would LOSE money if they add such general law...


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## M.C.A. (Feb 24, 2013)

Lunkan said:


> Dont many Americans claim USA is the most free country?
> 
> As soon as Swedes live over 6 months outside Sweden in a year and tell Swedish tax "BIR", then they dont bother about you anymore. (There can be exceptions if having real estate or business in Sweden still which can make them counting you as having Sweden as the main tax location anyway,)
> Then Sweden only tax retirement payout coming from Sweden..


Lunkan, we've had Expats here and both of them are my Facebook friends, one is from Canada and the other from Australia they both lose a certain percentage of their pension if they live overseas for 10 months, and my Australian friend wasn't allowed any Covid relief money from Australia because he lives here, he's a very elderly man.


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## Lunkan (Aug 28, 2020)

M.C.A. said:


> Lunkan, we've had Expats here and both of them are my Facebook friends, one is from Canada and the other from Australia they both lose a certain percentage of their pension if they live overseas for I think 10 months, and my Australian friend wasn't allowed any Covid relief money from Australia because he lives here, he's a very elderly man.


 Swedes get LOWER tax if live abroad  BUT on the other hand loosing a deduction, which make big retirement geters get it some better and the low get it some worse.
And there is a big loss if not reaching the "guaranteed" minimum retirement pay if living in Sweden, no guarantee minimum if live abroad, then get only the earned. 
Bigest loss though if living abroad is no right to accomodation support nor to the much subsidiesed dental nor health care, but get it back if moving back to Sweden some months.


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## amcan13 (Sep 28, 2021)

Since you are not my mother or wife you can forget about correcting me. If your country is so great feel free to go back. I believe I will not use you as a US tax expert since I don't feel like an audit. 
I spend a great deal of time complying with US tax codes and rules each year. Since not everyone fits the definition of only retired income streams can end up generating income in both countries and thus complicate where you have to pay and which country gets a tax credit.


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## M.C.A. (Feb 24, 2013)

amcan13 said:


> Since you are not my mother or wife you can forget about correcting me. If your country is so great feel free to go back. I believe I will not use you as a US tax expert since I don't feel like an audit.
> I spend a great deal of time complying with US tax codes and rules each year. Since not everyone fits the definition of only retired income streams can end up generating income in both countries and thus complicate where you have to pay and which country gets a tax credit.


Our US pensions won't be taxed, only money earned here would be subject to tax.


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## amcan13 (Sep 28, 2021)

I concur. Also you can earn income here they pretax in Philippines but the US will tax as income, no tax credit. Not from a job but income from financial investments in the Philippines that generate income. The US is punitive when investing in foreign markets. Would be less taxes with a business here. You get tax credits in the US for business tax paid. As I said everyone has a different story on money and taxes.


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## Lunkan (Aug 28, 2020)

amcan13 said:


> Since you are not my mother or wife you can forget about correcting me. If your country is so great feel free to go back. I believe I will not use you as a US tax expert since I don't feel like an audit.
> I spend a great deal of time complying with US tax codes and rules each year. Since not everyone fits the definition of only retired income streams can end up generating income in both countries and thus complicate where you have to pay and which country gets a tax credit.


 To me???! 
It was AMERICANS who told USA have odd taxing of Americans living abroad, which "normal" countries dont..

You kind of said so yourself too... 


amcan13 said:


> The US taxes you forever. If your spouse gets dual citizenship then now all her assets get taxed too.


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## art1946 (Nov 30, 2017)

hey mark,

Maybe I misunderstood what you said about the pensions don't get taxed. Some of my social security gets taxed when I go over the limit allowed. Last year i believe $600 got taxed because I still earned some money.

art


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## Gary D (Oct 28, 2013)

art1946 said:


> hey mark,
> 
> Maybe I misunderstood what you said about the pensions don't get taxed. Some of my social security gets taxed when I go over the limit allowed. Last year i believe $600 got taxed because I still earned some money.
> 
> art


I think what Mark was saying is that your US pension will not be taxed in the Philippines by the Philippines government.


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## Harry Moles (11 mo ago)

Howard_Z said:


> How much money in foreign banks triggers USA's FATCA ?


You should consult your country's Intergovernmental Agreement to determine the exact rules under which FATCA reporting is triggered. (In Canada, for example, reporting is not required for US-person accounts with a balance under US$50,000, and common types of tax-protected registered savings or investment account are fully excluded from FATCA reporting.)

Be aware, however, that banks are not _prevented_ from reporting US-person accounts with a balance below the FATCA limit. There are many reports of banks in different countries simply reporting all US person accounts rather than applying a filter to the data. (A recent analysis shows that over half the accounts reported in Canada fall below the limit.) US persons should never assume that a lower-value account will not be reported. That being said, the IRS lacks the the capability to do anything with FATCA data.

PS Yes, the American policy of taxing its citizens regardless of where they live is uniquely asinine. Fortunately the IRS is relatively toothless beyond US borders so dual citizens without US assets or incomes sources can safely ignore their filing requirements, as the vast majority do. However, in some countries anyone with a US birthplace on their identification will have problems with banks subjecting them to FATCA reporting, closing accounts if they cannot provide an SSN, or possible limitations on services offered.


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## MyExpatTaxes (10 mo ago)

Howard_Z said:


> How much money in foreign banks triggers USA's FATCA ?


According to the IRS, if you are a US expat taxpayer with financial assets outside the United States, you will need to report such assets every year on Form 8938 _– Statement of Specified Foreign Financial Assets._

Here are the FATCA for Americans abroad filing thresholds:

*Single or filing separately from spouse:* If you have more than $200,000 at the end of the year or $300,000 at any one time in the year in foreign financial assets, you’ll need to submit Form 8938
*Married filing jointly:* If you are filing jointly with your spouse and have more than $400,000 by the last day of the year or more than $600,000 at any one time during the year, you’ll need to submit Form 8938. This applies even if only one of the spouses lives abroad. 
If American expats need to report their assets on Form 8939, they also need to file the FBAR since they reached the FBAR filing thresholds.

Hope that helps!


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## M.C.A. (Feb 24, 2013)

art1946 said:


> hey mark,
> 
> Maybe I misunderstood what you said about the pensions don't get taxed. Some of my social security gets taxed when I go over the limit allowed. Last year i believe $600 got taxed because I still earned some money.
> 
> art


I'm talking about money earned in the Philippines and taxes owed to the Philippine government.


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## Howard_Z (7 mo ago)

If you own a condo in Philippines, does that count towards FBAR and FATCA ?
Or is it only money in the bank?

Also, when someone buys a home in Philippines, money has to come from USA to PH, and it certainly will be over $10,000
So how is this done in a legal and proper way ?
Deposit large check in a PH bank account ?


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## Gary D (Oct 28, 2013)

And in some countries


Howard_Z said:


> If you own a condo in Philippines, does that count towards FBAR and FATCA ?
> Or is it only money in the bank?
> 
> Also, when someone buys a home in Philippines, money has to come from USA to PH, and it certainly will be over $10,000
> ...


Nobody uses cheques anymore. You wire the money.


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## Howard_Z (7 mo ago)

Yesterday I visited 2 of my USA banks.
All international bank SWIFT transfers require me to visit the bank in person.
If I am in Philippines, I can not do international bank transfers.


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## M.C.A. (Feb 24, 2013)

Howard_Z said:


> If you own a condo in Philippines, does that count towards FBAR and FATCA ?
> Or is it only money in the bank?
> 
> Also, when someone buys a home in Philippines, money has to come from USA to PH, and it certainly will be over $10,000
> ...


You can deposit a check in the Philippine bank account but you first need to be a bank member, so you'll have to write 5 checks for 2,000 USD (my bank PNB has a maximum per check limit of 2,000 USD) and each check will have a 200 pesos fee. 

But? I'd ask the PRA if they will accept the check, they should but it'll take around 45 days to fully clear, they say 21 business days but it ends up taking 45 days because of holidays or? at least with my bank PNB, it takes that long for a check to clear.

Bring checks they still are a way of depositing money until you can work out something else or you could just work out a monthly electronic transfer, they also have what's called a Pensioner account but it'll only be in your name.


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## Gary D (Oct 28, 2013)

M.C.A. said:


> You can deposit a check in the Philippine bank account but you first need to be a bank member, so you'll have to write 5 checks for 2,000 USD (my bank PNB has a maximum per check limit of 2,000 USD) and each check will have a 200 pesos fee.
> 
> But? I'd ask the PRA if they will accept the check, they should but it'll take around 45 days to fully clear, they say 21 business days but it ends up taking 45 days because of holidays or? at least with my bank PNB, it takes that long for a check to clear.
> 
> Bring checks they still are a way of depositing money until you can work out something else or you could just work out a monthly electronic transfer, they also have what's called a Pensioner account but it'll only be in your name.


My wife has a PNB pensioner account but apart from one or two places like Mercury Drugs it's only any good in a PNB ATM.


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## bidrod (Mar 31, 2015)

Gary D said:


> And in some countries
> 
> Nobody uses cheques anymore. You wire the money.


I use USD checks to my dollar account with BDO. Cheapest way to transfer.

Chuck


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## Lunkan (Aug 28, 2020)

Howard_Z said:


> Yesterday I visited 2 of my USA banks.
> All international bank SWIFT transfers require me to visit the bank in person.
> If I am in Philippines, I can not do international bank transfers.


 What UNMODERN banks do you have?? 

I did the transfer from my Swedish bank to my business investment in Phils WITHOUT going to my Swedish bank. In Sweden I have done all in my bank at distance since the 1990-ties. 

Wasnt this asked recently?


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## bigpearl (Jan 24, 2016)

Yes it was Lunkan many times over the years and I also recall suggesting the OP (Howard) change banks.

We have to remember though, not being US nationals and obviously not familiar with the banking systems available there I went to my best friend google and and found a dozen banks that handle international transfers/payments electronically.

SWIFT codes and having to go into the bank? When I set up a new international recipient in electronic banking, part of the requirements are the SWIFT code, the bank, the recipients account number and the/their name on the account. From memory an address of the recipient also. All done from my office chair.

It's funny, many mention cheques and clearing times,,,, I went and found my cheque books,,, the last entry was 2016 for a couple of screen doors because that was a once off,,,,, flick the next leaf, 2014 for a similar situation.

I even opened a new investment account with a different bank in Australia a couple of years ago when I sold my house there (yes all that was accomplished while I was living here in the Philippines, sale, agents, legal needs, taxes etc.)

The last time I went into a bank was near 10 years ago to open an account for my partners wages.

Any way like Lunkan and many others I have been using internet and telephone banking for over 20 years and it works well and saves a heap of time, time is dollars.

OMO.

Cheers, Steve.


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## DonAndAbby (Jan 7, 2013)

bidrod said:


> I use USD checks to my dollar account with BDO. Cheapest way to transfer.
> 
> Chuck


Same here at BPI. It used to be completely free until all the banks started charging the p200 check deposit fee. My last check deposit was 25k a few years ago. At BPI that is fine but I think it gets a regional approval so it takes a few days longer to clear.


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## bidrod (Mar 31, 2015)

DonAndAbby said:


> Same here at BPI. It used to be completely free until all the banks started charging the p200 check deposit fee. My last check deposit was 25k a few years ago. At BPI that is fine but I think it gets a regional approval so it takes a few days longer to clear.


My BDO Branch manager waives the fee for me.

Chuck


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## bigpearl (Jan 24, 2016)

That's funny Chuck (bidrod) as over the years we transferred loads of cash to the BDO accounts here via EFT and every time whether AU 10 or 40K always attracted a 200 peso fee, I took all the printouts to the bank manager (yes appointment) and asked what these fees are for, the manager had no idea and assured us that wasn't the bank but some intermediary which was B/S so I said to the manager if this happens again we will change banks,,,,,,,,, no more 200 peso fees.

Cheers, Steve.


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## bidrod (Mar 31, 2015)

bigpearl said:


> That's funny Chuck (bidrod) as over the years we transferred loads of cash to the BDO accounts here via EFT and every time whether AU 10 or 40K always attracted a 200 peso fee, I took all the printouts to the bank manager (yes appointment) and asked what these fees are for, the manager had no idea and assured us that wasn't the bank but some intermediary which was B/S so I said to the manager if this happens again we will change banks,,,,,,,,, no more 200 peso fees.
> 
> Cheers, Steve.


On my second branch manager in 11 years never an appointment, Made friends with both. Have BDO credit card for years on managers recommendation. Manager called yesterday to check if I got renewal notice for vehicle insurance.

Chuck.


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## Tiz (Jan 23, 2016)

Before I came to the Philippines, I thought that my 94 year old Dad was the last person on earth to still be using a cheque book.


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## GirlDownunder (Mar 28, 2015)

FATCA was only ever about stealing data, money, and usurping other country's autonomy. _Every country should have told the IRS/Treasury to stuff it up their bum when they tried their extortion of 30% tax_. No fat-cats are getting trapped in this BS net, only little fish owing no tax, yet having to pay big $$$ to hire int'l tax agents. At this point, the embassies aren't even allowing people to schedule their renunciation (at their insane $2,350USD scalping per head)-- they've literally stopped their citizen/slaves from leaving. But, here's the biggest irony of this sick & aggressive grab:









US remains world's largest tax haven despite vows to fight money laundering


This does not quite match the claims about the intention to fight corruption: Kremlin spokesman




www.business-standard.com


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## M.C.A. (Feb 24, 2013)

bigpearl said:


> That's funny Chuck (bidrod) as over the years we transferred loads of cash to the BDO accounts here via EFT and every time whether AU 10 or 40K always attracted a 200 peso fee, I took all the printouts to the bank manager (yes appointment) and asked what these fees are for, the manager had no idea and assured us that wasn't the bank but some intermediary which was B/S so I said to the manager if this happens again we will change banks,,,,,,,,, no more 200 peso fees.
> 
> Cheers, Steve.


So? Intermediary... My PNB has a computer homemade print out so would this 200 peso fee be for their lunch break, because I already tip for that.


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## bigpearl (Jan 24, 2016)

M.C.A. said:


> So? Intermediary... My PNB has a computer homemade print out so would this 200 peso fee be for their lunch break, because I already tip for that.


Mark? Tip them for robbing you?

Cheers, Steve.


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## Lunkan (Aug 28, 2020)

Btw are you guys sure its SWIFT?
I believe back when I transfered my Swedish bank said Philippines used OTHER code than SWIFT, I believe IBAN


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## bigpearl (Jan 24, 2016)

Not for me Lunkan, swift for international exchanges, no Idea for your domicile.

Cheers, Steve.


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## M.C.A. (Feb 24, 2013)

Tiz said:


> Before I came to the Philippines, I thought that my 94 year old Dad was the last person on earth to still be using a cheque book.


It's a way of real time regulating funds from my US Bank but I just might change to the pensioner fund.

I don't have big money and barely get by on my military pension so not much if a savings so, once I begin to draw Social Security in two years I'll just use the BDO as a pensioner account.

I am also tired of writing check's, it's a process already and then all the bank paperwork makes it monotonous.


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## Lunkan (Aug 28, 2020)

Tiz said:


> Before I came to the Philippines, I thought that my 94 year old Dad was the last person on earth to still be using a cheque book.


 I believe predated checks for rents are common still in Phils.


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## amcan13 (Sep 28, 2021)

I have never seen a Filipino use a check. About half the people I know don't even use a bank. Before they hid cash, now they use GCash. 
It is surprising how many people walk around without load on their phone. Since you can receive texts still they don't load unless forced for a day. 
The Philippines takes out taxes on stuff like interest if you get any. I also note that my bank will take a $12 fee to receive a wire into a dollar account but takes no fee when receiving into a peso account. I assume the make the money by giving a lower exchange rate. 
If you get into a mutal fund here they pretax any dividends or withdrawals so nice. Bad part is US hates foreign investment and really taxes all your mutual fund money like income at a high rate. Not like a mutual fund withdrawal from US fund.


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## bidrod (Mar 31, 2015)

Post dated checks are used all the time to pay monthly house amortizations, loans, rentals etc. Locals might use checks for large purchases that exceed debit/credit card limits like a vehicle purchase or large appliances. I would!

Chuck


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## amcan13 (Sep 28, 2021)

I don't run in those circles, people with that kind of money. The only time I saw a post dated check in the US it was a nightmare. The person cashed it early and the bank let it through. The account didn't have the money yet and it bounced, quite the mess. 
If I was going to need a large check, a bank Check would be better than a personal check. But again, you would still need to have the cash in the bank. 
If I do a contract I exchange the money in the bank. The manager gets a copy of the contract and then they move the money as instructed by the receiving party. It really protects both parties.


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## Gary D (Oct 28, 2013)

bidrod said:


> Post dated checks are used all the time to pay monthly house amortizations, loans, rentals etc. Locals might use checks for large purchases that exceed debit/credit card limits like a vehicle purchase or large appliances. I would!
> 
> Chuck


Yes but managers cheques.


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## fmartin_gila (May 15, 2011)

Even some of the businesses here don't understand checks & such. Recently I thought I wanted a certain parcel of beach land. Paid the man 100K earnest money, then made 1 of 3 payments of 500K. After due thought, decided I didn't want it. Man gave me a Managers check for the 500K. Bought a new car and planned to just add some cash to the Managers check. THE DEALER REFUSED TO ACCEPT THE MANAGERS CHECK!!!! Had to go to the bank and cash the check, then pay for the car in cash. After all this time, I still do not understand the thinking processes here.

Somewhat irritated, but still like my new car. LOL

Fred


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## HondaGuy (Aug 6, 2012)

When I've rented condos in Manila, the management companies always wanted 12x post-dated checks/cheques as the form of payment for the rent.
They explained so that if a tenant failed to have the funds available, they were guilty of "estafa", a criminal offense in the Philippines (and not just a civil matter):


https://ifranchise.ph/what-is-estafa/


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