# we do sound so negative dont we!?!



## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

I've just been reading through some of our recent threads and posts, my, dont we all sound so negative. I know things arent so good here financially/economically at the moment, but thats a world wide problem. Lets not forget the joys of being in sunny spain. as I've said in a previous thread, its much nicer to sit out the recession in a lovely warm, sunny and relaxed country, with beautiful views, beaches and weather. It IS still cheaper to live here (for now!!?) and there IS more freedom and space.

My OH is in the UK at the moment, its 17c, rainy and damp, the people over there are all miserable and depressed - and even my OH, who hasnt taken to Spain as well as I'd hoped is desperate to come back. He says although Spain is not in a particularly good shape financially, everyone in Spain appears happier and less concerned about the world crisis's

So my point is, lets count our blessings. and anyone thinking of coming out here, tread carefully, dont think Spain has escaped the world problems - but it is a beautiful place to be!

Jo


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## crookesey (May 22, 2008)

jojo said:


> I've just been reading through some of our recent threads and posts, my, dont we all sound so negative. I know things arent so good here financially/economically at the moment, but thats a world wide problem. Lets not forget the joys of being in sunny spain. as I've said in a previous thread, its much nicer to sit out the recession in a lovely warm, sunny and relaxed country, with beautiful views, beaches and weather. It IS still cheaper to live here (for now!!?) and there IS more freedom and space.
> 
> My OH is in the UK at the moment, its 17c, rainy and damp, the people over there are all miserable and depressed - and even my OH, who hasnt taken to Spain as well as I'd hoped is desperate to come back. He says although Spain is not in a particularly good shape financially, everyone in Spain appears happier and less concerned about the world crisis's
> 
> ...


Well Jo at least you, like me are a glass half full person. The big issue in the UK this week is the new car tax bands, on investigation I find that I will be paying £5.00 more and my wife will be paying £5.00 less, big deal! 

We have been battered into near submission by a government that thinks the people are here to serve the state, rather than the other way round. Enough is enough, we are not in recession it just feels as though we are. The Prime Minister and all his lackeys are miserable hard faced control freaks who can't wait to hit us with yet another stealth tax and ban us from doing something that we enjoy.

207,000 UK nationals emigrated in 2006, Spain being the 4th most popular destination after Australia, New Zealand and France. More folk come in than go out each year, Muslin gettos are on the increase, council estates have been taken over by knife and gun packing drug dealing chavs and young agressive blacks, but the good news is that they will stay in the UK and we won't.

My best mate thinks that me and the wife are mad, I wish that I had a fiver for every time he has said "Spain is where you go for holidays and stay in 5 star Thomson Gold hotels where all the guests are all British, there are no kids and you don't have to eat that Spanish muck". Well we want to eat 'that Spanish muck', mix with Spanish folk and their children and enjoy the Spanish weather and the life style that it brings with it. 

Our son is off to New Zealand within the next few years so thats where we will go for holidays and he can come and see us in Spain if he's minded to, the UK has quite simply become surplus to our requirements.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

crookesey said:


> We have been battered into near submission by a government that thinks the people are here to serve the state, rather than the other way round. Enough is enough, we are not in recession it just feels as though we are. The Prime Minister and all his lackeys are miserable hard faced control freaks who can't wait to hit us with yet another stealth tax and ban us from doing something that we enjoy.


Yep, I think that sums up why we left the UK!!


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## chris(madrid) (Mar 23, 2008)

Yup maybe just a bit.

Spain is my home now, but I have to admit that after a while things like SUN lose their importance - especially if you're forbidden water for the garden in summer so you have burnt scrub rather then anything green. I was actually pleased in June to see it rain here. My wife is Spanish and I think would LOVE the temp here to be 17 a bit more often. 

It's true that many of the things you've mentioned are part and parcel of being here - but from bitter experience that laid back approach is severely worrying in business sometimes. 

I'm not sure this is a "it's always been this way" thing though - I sometimes get the feeling it has much to do with the relatively recent freedoms folk have. A sort of post-oppression lash back. 

Spain's a great place to be IF you have enough income to live on. And in all honesty you do need less here to live. But very dodgy if you do not have enough. I've an Italian friend in the UK who lived off benefit for years - near impossible here. Even if you're 100% paid up - you'll get max 2 years dole, that's it. After that - if you've just about any income - you'll get no form of benefit. 

Yes there's LOADS of space - especially inland away from the coast - imo the best bits of Spain are. I'm not a big fan of the beach. 

What is sort of worrying (for me though) is to see so many folk almost expecting life here to be like hol's here. Equally worrying many seem to be (no offence meant to anybody) un or low skilled and unable to communicate with locals. But seem to think finding work will be a cinch. This seems to me to be more than just a tadge naive.

When I first moved from the UK - I went to Germany - but I'd never have gone without work or being able to communicate and I guess most folk would see that as sensible - yet say SPAIN and I've seen eyes glaze over with thoughts of sun, sea & sand. 

I first came here in the 90's without a job (due to a family tragedy) but with a then very sought after skill set - even so took me 7 months to find work (that laid back "call me next week" thing again) - My wife had a good job so we were fine.

I've just had a glimpse at other sections of the forum and there the themes seem to me to be more "I know it's not going to be easy - but I'll be working there and I wondered...". Here I get the feeling it's often "Hey we're heading for the sun - anybody got a job going?"

Like I say it's my home - I cant imagine living anywhere else right now. But I'd rather not paint it all as rosy. I hope I've not demoralised anybody - I do hope though to make folk stop and think.


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## chris(madrid) (Mar 23, 2008)

crookesey said:


> We have been battered into near submission by a government that thinks the people are here to serve the state, rather than the other way round. Enough is enough, we are not in recession it just feels as though we are. The Prime Minister and all his lackeys are miserable hard faced control freaks who can't wait to hit us with yet another stealth tax and ban us from doing something that we enjoy.......... Muslin gettos are on the increase, council estates have been taken over by knife and gun packing drug dealing chavs and young agressive blacks, but the good news is that they will stay in the UK and we won't.


Hang on - you think Spain is different? Here the names/tribes whatever are different - but the same applies. Not faced the Latin Kings yet I'd guess.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

chris(madrid) said:


> Hang on - you think Spain is different? Here the names/tribes whatever are different - but the same applies. Not faced the Latin Kings yet I'd guess.



yes, but as stupid and niaive as this may sound, cos I dont understand the language, I dont realise whats going on !! Also, and I could be wrong here (as I say I dont speak the language much yet, but from what I've seen on the local news etc), the Spanish media dont seem to dramatise everything as much as they do in the UK, so nothing seems as bad???????

Jo


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## chris(madrid) (Mar 23, 2008)

jojo said:


> yes, but as stupid and niaive as this may sound, cos I dont understand the language, I dont realise whats going on !! Also, and I could be wrong here (as I say I dont speak the language much yet, but from what I've seen on the local news etc), the Spanish media dont seem to dramatise everything as much as they do in the UK, so nothing seems as bad???????Jo


Fair comment Jo. I forget occasionally that not everybody has the same information feeds. 

The Spanish media - Mmmmm. They look at things in a Spanish way. They tug the sentimental strings pretty hard. But more disposed to PITY than ANGER/FEAR. But as I'm immersed in SPAIN I suppose I not only see more - but get more direct feedback from colleagues/wife/friends. 

I guess it depends where you live too, Jo - but take into account that local stations ARE semi controlled by the regional governments (despite what they say). 

We see a far few gang reprisal murders on the TV here - the other day they were going on about neo-nazi groups roughing up foreigners. Eastern European gangs - drugs - it's all there. A lot on this cameraphone videoing of attacks now too. 

There is here a tendency for "The News" to be straight faced - but there are loads of news programs with more emotion. 2nd rate journalism imo. But there it is - I guess they have to live too.

Politics (sorry political bickering) takes a HUGE portion of Spanish news - that plus football. 

The interesting stuff (changes in laws etc) is often only included as an anecdote. Often btw on Antena3 lunchtime news. Sadly don't get to see it now.


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## crookesey (May 22, 2008)

chris(madrid) said:


> Hang on - you think Spain is different? Here the names/tribes whatever are different - but the same applies. Not faced the Latin Kings yet I'd guess.


Yes I do, Spain had a Fascist dictator who gained power through civil war, we have had an unelected one forced on us in the guise of a New Labour MP. We have more CCTV cameras than any other country in the world, we are the only nation in the Union without it's own parliament. Scottish MP's vote against free care for the elderly, free prescriptions and free school meals in England but are all for it in Scotland as long as the English tax-payer picks up the bill.

It took nine Ulster MP's to get the 42 days bill through parliament, MP's vote on their own pay deals, they can spend over £20K of tax-payers money each year without having to produce receipts, they can pay their wives and kids huge salaries for doing bog all and have exempted themselves from the Lifetime Allowance rule. This means 55% tax on the excess on pension funds over £1,650,000, Mr Blairs came to £3million, but of course he was exempt.

You have been away too long Chris, Burgess, Philby, MacLean and Blunt would be proud of the way that this government has completely subjugated a whole nation.


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## chris(madrid) (Mar 23, 2008)

Right I've decided to drop out of this one after this post - as it's pretty clear to me that you have VERY little idea how Spain works TODAY either - 30 years-ish after Spain became a democracy. 

Bear in mind here that I'm very right wing - my wife is quite the reverse so I'm used to discourses and can smell discontent. I prefer to leave the world harmonious.

I see politics and its use/misuse daily - remember I work with Spanish politicians. So do 3 members of my immediate Spanish family inc wife. I happen to be currently surrounded by the PP at work - not that that matters (except maybe to my wife).

I work here - I've had my own business here - I've dealt professionally with the Spanish ministries as well as town halls. There are good and bad experiences. 

I do not know your experience of working here or living with Spaniards. 

Spain is closer often to an Iberian confederation than a state. The areas DO NOT TRUST EACH OTHER 1 JOT. For example did you know that there are plans to abolish CASTILLIAN (SPANISH if you prefer) from Mallorcan education system. There's unity!. Want to see distrust - set a business up then open an office in Vitoria. The regions are autonomous BUT sit in central government. 

And I can say based on comparison with my brother that things hear are not radically different here to there. You're unhappy with the UK - fine (by that I mean that's fine by me that you have your opinion) - I have VERY close contact with the UK socially - I believe my information to be current. But really I'm past caring much - save how it affects my parents - it's not my home. My home is Spain -what happens here does concern me.

What has made Spain (in the past -less so now) seem a bit calmer maybe is that with very little cash extra it was/is EASY to hide from what really happens. In the UK this was and still is more difficult. WW2 changed that (some say WW1). 

There lies I believe a great rift between how I see things and I guess how you do. I wish you well nontheless.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Whatever, I'm just too blonde to get heavily into politics - sorry!  Its a beautiful place to live and I wouldnt swap my life here for anything - even if I have just been totally eaten alive by mozzies and its too hot to sleep!! So there!!  LOL

Jo


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## rjnpenang (Feb 20, 2008)

Chris, JoJo & Crookesey & and anybody else interested.
An interesting news article in yesterdays Telegraph relevant to the question of assimilating with the locals when migrating.
This poor? woman has been refused French citizenship, she moved to France, married a Frenchman, had 3 children there but lives a life 100% dedicated to an Islamic way of life, she does´nt even know woman the right to vote in France. Do we pity the woman?, blame the husband? or?. Hope you enjoy. Regards Rob
Muslim woman refused French citizenship for her 'submissive' views - Telegraph


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## crookesey (May 22, 2008)

rjnpenang said:


> Chris, JoJo & Crookesey & and anybody else interested.
> An interesting news article in yesterdays Telegraph relevant to the question of assimilating with the locals when migrating.
> This poor? woman has been refused French citizenship, she moved to France, married a Frenchman, had 3 children there but lives a life 100% dedicated to an Islamic way of life, she does´nt even know woman the right to vote in France. Do we pity the woman?, blame the husband? or?. Hope you enjoy. Regards Rob
> Muslim woman refused French citizenship for her 'submissive' views - Telegraph


I read a while ago that a Muslim knocked on this guys front door but instead of opening it he got on his knees and flipped the letter box flap open.

Why don't you open the door? asked the Muslim.

Because I wanted you to appreciate how we feel answered the guy.


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

How did we get from negativity to muslims?


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Stravinsky said:


> How did we get from negativity to muslims?


I was wondering that, so I've backed out of this thread

Jo


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## crookesey (May 22, 2008)

jojo said:


> I was wondering that, so I've backed out of this thread
> 
> Jo


As is the way in this politically correct world, perhaps a sense of humour might have some effect on the world's problems. My Jewish and black friends swap banter with me but Islam appears to be a no go area.

No more to say on the subject other than 'we can all laugh with each other without hating each other'.


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## sarahjanelovesspain (Jul 7, 2008)

crookesey said:


> Well Jo at least you, like me are a glass half full person. The big issue in the UK this week is the new car tax bands, on investigation I find that I will be paying £5.00 more and my wife will be paying £5.00 less, big deal!
> 
> We have been battered into near submission by a government that thinks the people are here to serve the state, rather than the other way round. Enough is enough, we are not in recession it just feels as though we are. The Prime Minister and all his lackeys are miserable hard faced control freaks who can't wait to hit us with yet another stealth tax and ban us from doing something that we enjoy.
> 
> ...


BRAVO Thats just how we feel and thats why our house is up for sale and when its sold were off to sunny spain.


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## sarahjanelovesspain (Jul 7, 2008)

jojo said:


> Whatever, I'm just too blonde to get heavily into politics - sorry!  Its a beautiful place to live and I wouldnt swap my life here for anything - even if I have just been totally eaten alive by mozzies and its too hot to sleep!! So there!!  LOL
> 
> Jo


HEAR, HEAR HOORAAAA FOR JO JO THIS GAL KNOW WHAT IS IMPORTANT LOL


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## reallylight (May 6, 2008)

jojo said:


> Whatever, I'm just too blonde to get heavily into politics - sorry!  Its a beautiful place to live and I wouldnt swap my life here for anything - even if I have just been totally eaten alive by mozzies and its too hot to sleep!! So there!!  LOL
> 
> Jo


Say it like it is!


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

reallylight said:


> Say it like it is!


Sent you a pm


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## owdoggy (Jul 23, 2008)

jojo said:


> Its a beautiful place to live and I wouldnt swap my life here for anything


Thank god for that!

I've just registered so I thought I would have a good skeg at various threads but after a while my head was buzzin' with visas, tax, IVsummat, pension doo dads, agencies and a bin load of other griff but then to find out that some of you reckon that there is not much different to here, I was beginning to think that me & Mrs Doggy's dream of retirement in Spain (after chrimbo this year) might not be such a good idea.

Still, we'll rent for a few months, have a good rekky & see what happens.


Doggy


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## carefreebrit (Aug 10, 2008)

Getting back to the original point of negativity, I participate in and read other forums about Spain as well as other European countries I have an interest in living in. What seems to create a lot of negativity are the very naive attitudes and questions of many people. I won't single anyone out on here, but I have seen people ask basic questions like " We live in village X, you live in Y-- are you near us ?". Online map too difficult to find or use ? On another country forum and site many regulars get really angry/frustrated with the newbies who seem incapable of going outside of their own door without help never mind live in a foreign country. In short I am not negative at all I hope, but realistic, and the negative tone of many of my posts on various forums is due to the laziness of posters coupled with the rose-tinted glasses many of them seem to wear.

oops:-after re-reading this it sounds rather negative[something about pots and kettles springs to mind].Time for blonde hair dye ?


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## rjnpenang (Feb 20, 2008)

"oops:-after re-reading this it sounds rather negative[something about pots and kettles springs to mind].Time for blonde hair dye!

I agree with your last statement. Regards Rob


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## owdoggy (Jul 23, 2008)

carefreebrit said:


> Getting back to the original point of negativity, I participate in and read other forums about Spain as well as other European countries I have an interest in living in. What seems to create a lot of negativity are the very naive attitudes and questions of many people. I won't single anyone out on here, but I have seen people ask basic questions like " We live in village X, you live in Y-- are you near us ?". Online map too difficult to find or use ? On another country forum and site many regulars get really angry/frustrated with the newbies who seem incapable of going outside of their own door without help never mind live in a foreign country. In short I am not negative at all I hope, but realistic, and the negative tone of many of my posts on various forums is due to the laziness of posters coupled with the rose-tinted glasses many of them seem to wear.
> 
> oops:-after re-reading this it sounds rather negative[something about pots and kettles springs to mind].Time for blonde hair dye ?


Although I have started "serious" research some 6 months before our first rekky trip (I have to say this forum is one good source of info ..... thanks guys & gals) and have booked nightclasses to improve my holiday Spanish (with a geordie accent) there's so much to find out that if I get stumped on something then I'm going to ask advice from people in the know 'cos if you don't ask, you don't get. 
What might seem blindingly obvious to those in the know could be something we've just missed as in "can't see the wood for the trees" or just can't get our heads round (tax!) so don't be too hard on us newbies that just want to improve our livestyles but want to do it right.

If that's looking at things through rose-tinted glasses then put me down for two pair


Doggy


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## dizzy (Jul 12, 2008)

Well said Doggy! I think we need to be reminded why we join these forums. It is either to converse with like minded people or to help others - is it not?

For me it was to learn more and to interact with people more expert than myself. So sometimes I might sound like I am daft or lazy even and rosey glasses - oooh yes please. Oh well. Most posters here are great anyway and even tho I am now on my way to living the life I have dreamed of for so long - I am going to stick around to learn more and help others.

just my two bobs worth.


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## littleredrooster (Aug 3, 2008)

Just depends where you go first Owdoggy,as to how easy it is to get used to things.
If you start of in the touristy Costa areas you will find most people speaking English and you will never be short of advice(of one sort or another) round the Brit bars etc.
However if you go to a rural area, some Spanish is essential to get started,preferably without the Geordie accent,(ah diven na wat thuz tarkun uboot man).
Speak a bit Spanish myself but my N.E. accent still causes the locals some serious confusion.
Anyways,best of luck and hope things work out ok for you.


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## EmmaLouUK (Aug 4, 2008)

Personally I'd just like to add that even though many people think living in Spain is a holiday I'm actually moving to Spain to look for work and also to learn skills that I can't get in my area like Spanish >.< I have to be honest I have some very good Spanish friends that have taught me what I know right now but its not very easy when you live in an area/ house hold where no one speaks any Spanish >.< people in my area just are not interested in learning Spanish or any other language for that matter! I on the other hand want the oppertunity to learn another language, at the age of 10 I was fluent in Italian but no one around here speaks any Italian and due to that I have pretty much forgotten it. I am only young so maybe I am seeing things from a nieve point of view but if I can improve myself as a person and also gain better qualities while in Spain I will be happy! I am 18 years old and I do not want to be part of a stereotyped teenage society anymore I've had enough of listening to teenage pregnancy statistics in my area and ASBO's I have never wanted to be stuck in a place where you have to be scared of who's around the corner or what their carrying. I know its going to be very hard to start off with but I have a lot of good friends that I know I can get help from (90% of them are Spanish) I am not moving into Spain blind but I know there are things I still don't know and won't know until I'm in Spain.
I hope I haven't gone too far off topic but this is my opinion.
Thanks
Emma


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## rjnpenang (Feb 20, 2008)

Hi Emma Lou,
First, Congratulations on your A levels (good results?). Secondly, your last post; well said and intelligent about it, and good English!, you seem to have the right attitude and I think you will make a go of it. 
Instead of Benidorm why not try Madrid or Barcelona, go in at the deep end. anyway, good luck, Robert (the father of a 22 year old girl & 23 y.o. boy).


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

EmmaLouUK said:


> Personally I'd just like to add that even though many people think living in Spain is a holiday I'm actually moving to Spain to look for work and also to learn skills that I can't get in my area like Spanish >.< I have to be honest I have some very good Spanish friends that have taught me what I know right now but its not very easy when you live in an area/ house hold where no one speaks any Spanish >.< people in my area just are not interested in learning Spanish or any other language for that matter! I on the other hand want the oppertunity to learn another language, at the age of 10 I was fluent in Italian but no one around here speaks any Italian and due to that I have pretty much forgotten it. I am only young so maybe I am seeing things from a nieve point of view but if I can improve myself as a person and also gain better qualities while in Spain I will be happy! I am 18 years old and I do not want to be part of a stereotyped teenage society anymore I've had enough of listening to teenage pregnancy statistics in my area and ASBO's I have never wanted to be stuck in a place where you have to be scared of who's around the corner or what their carrying. I know its going to be very hard to start off with but I have a lot of good friends that I know I can get help from (90% of them are Spanish) I am not moving into Spain blind but I know there are things I still don't know and won't know until I'm in Spain.
> I hope I haven't gone too far off topic but this is my opinion.
> Thanks
> Emma


I think you're in a perfect position Emma. you're young, free and single and exploring the world. You go for it girl!!

Jo x


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## owdoggy (Jul 23, 2008)

jojo said:


> I think you're in a perfect position Emma. you're young, free and single and exploring the world. You go for it girl!!
> 
> Jo x


Seconded



> Just depends where you go first Owdoggy,as to how easy it is to get used to things.
> If you start of in the touristy Costa areas you will find most people speaking English and you will never be short of advice(of one sort or another) round the Brit bars etc.
> However if you go to a rural area, some Spanish is essential to get started,preferably without the Geordie accent,(ah diven na wat thuz tarkun uboot man).
> Speak a bit Spanish myself but my N.E. accent still causes the locals some serious confusion.


Aye well we fancy somewhere inland away from it all in Almeria so the plan for the first rekky trip in January is Roquetas de Mar for location & chinwags. We plan to rent first while we look to buy but realise that it may take more trips to find what we're after, indeed it may turn out that we fancy another area & if that's the case we'll just go with the flow.


Doggy


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## EmmaLouUK (Aug 4, 2008)

rjnpenang said:


> Hi Emma Lou,
> First, Congratulations on your A levels (good results?). Secondly, your last post; well said and intelligent about it, and good English!, you seem to have the right attitude and I think you will make a go of it.
> Instead of Benidorm why not try Madrid or Barcelona, go in at the deep end. anyway, good luck, Robert (the father of a 22 year old girl & 23 y.o. boy).


Hi Robert,
Thanks alot for your reply as for my A-Level's I passed my English exams so am very happy with that. I'm glad that you could see my point in that reply. The reason that I won't go to Madrid or Barcelona is because I have made too many friends in Benidorm and it's a place I feel comfortable in too, my friends here are a mix of Spanish & British and I know that I would get support from them on anything I need. I was in Benidorm in July that is when I finally decided that I was going to look into work and a place to live, thanks to my friends I was able to find out pretty much all I need to know for living and working in Benidorm itself. But I feel that 2 weeks just wasn't enough time to gather every little bit of information hence why I am here trying to find out a bit more as well as speaking to my friends online to help me out a bit more.
Anyway I'd also like to thank JoJo for her reply too.
Thanks
Emma


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## littleredrooster (Aug 3, 2008)

Almeria sounds ok Doggy,good climate,lots of sun,some nice beaches on the coast and property prices not so bad.
Also I would think next year is a good time to buy as prices are still dropping in most areas.
Only other thing I would say is it can be a touch dry and dusty in that region with not so much greenery as some places.
Wish you the best when you get down there and hope you find what youre looking for.


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## SunnySpain (Jul 30, 2008)

"Only other thing I would say is it can be a touch dry and dusty in that region with not so much greenery as some places"

Almeria is practically a desert - lol 

And I'm thinking house prices will drop a lot more in the next 12-18 months


Regards, Dave


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## littleredrooster (Aug 3, 2008)

Just trying to be diplomatic Sunny,but seeing how the title of the thread is negativity, might as well just sock it to em straight!


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## chris(madrid) (Mar 23, 2008)

SunnySpain said:


> Almeria is practically a desert - lol


Spaghetti Western,films were primarily shot in the Andalusia region of Spain, and in particular the Tabernas Desert of *Almería*, because it resembles the American Southwest.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

chris(madrid) said:


> Spaghetti Western,films were primarily shot in the Andalusia region of Spain, and in particular the Tabernas Desert of *Almería*, because it resembles the American Southwest.



Apparently "El Chorro" which is near Campillo in Andalusia (I think thats where we went, I was a sleeping passenger!!), they filmed a lot of Westerns there and the scenery is breath-taking, rocky hills, valleys, lakes, desert-like terraine, totally unspoilt scenery. Beautiful!!......and then you go round a corner and hey, there's a beach on the lake side full of pic-nic benches, pedaloes, sunbeds, kiosks and of course British tourists!!! I guess there was enough space there for everything tho!


Jo


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## littleredrooster (Aug 3, 2008)

Was around the area a few year ago and it did look very desolate.
One interesting thing was the Cuevas de Almanzora.
One of the locals took us round 100s of caves,all higgledy piggledy,6 stories or so high set in a huge white rock.Many were joined up with passages and narrow steep steps.He showed us how ppl.had lived in them until not long ago.The kids bedrooms were set behind the parents rooms so they couldnt wander out and fall of the cliff edge.They had many clever ideas built into them, most having both a Summer and Winter balcony(north and south on each side of the rock)with a sheer drop below!
Some even had a minature cave set into the balcony next to the main cave ,for the dog.
The guy then took us back to his local pub ,bought us a drink and refused to take anything for his troubles.


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## owdoggy (Jul 23, 2008)

Ta for the info.
Strange people we may be but Sue & I quite like dry, dusty & desolate

Reading back through this thread there seems to be quite a few positives so in answer to the original question no, I don't think you sound so negative, IMO you just tell it how you see it & if that's being negative then keep going .........I like negative



Doggy


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

owdoggy said:


> T
> 
> Reading back through this thread there seems to be quite a few positives so in answer to the original question no, I don't think you sound so negative, IMO you just tell it how you see it & if that's being negative then keep going .........I like negative
> 
> ...


I think when I started this thread, it was at a time when a lot of newcomers were coming onto the forum believing that Spain was the easy and cheap escape route from the recession and misery in the UK, and the expats on here seemed to spend so much time pointing out that in fact Spain has the same problems, (some worse, some not so bad), that when I read through these threads and posts I almost felt like going back to the UK (not really lol)!! They came across as so negative.

As long as people who are thinking of moving here are aware,we're not trying to spoil dreams or burst bubbles. Its not easy, there's a recession here too, job losses, mass unemployment, inflation, house prices tumbling... all very negative, but sadly true and there's no escaping it, whichever country you're in!

Jo


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## goforgold (Feb 5, 2008)

carefreebrit said:


> Getting back to the original point of negativity, I participate in and read other forums about Spain as well as other European countries I have an interest in living in. What seems to create a lot of negativity are the very naive attitudes and questions of many people. I won't single anyone out on here, but I have seen people ask basic questions like " We live in village X, you live in Y-- are you near us ?". Online map too difficult to find or use ? On another country forum and site many regulars get really angry/frustrated with the newbies who seem incapable of going outside of their own door without help never mind live in a foreign country. In short I am not negative at all I hope, but realistic, and the negative tone of many of my posts on various forums is due to the laziness of posters coupled with the rose-tinted glasses many of them seem to wear.
> 
> oops:-after re-reading this it sounds rather negative[something about pots and kettles springs to mind].Time for blonde hair dye ?


I know exactly what you mean - I'm new to this forum as I am making investigations into whether I would like to retire to Spain or just live there for 3/4 months. I lived and worked for a few years in Tenerife and for a while in Madrid and so have some experience of the life style. What does get me is that some people are seriously considering moving to Spain and want information on the best place to live and find work, and when someone mentions a place, they ask "where is that?" Surely if you are genuinely interested in moving you would be looking at a map, not asking the question?


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

goforgold said:


> What does get me is that some people are seriously considering moving to Spain and want information on the best place to live and find work, and when someone mentions a place, they ask "where is that?" Surely if you are genuinely interested in moving you would be looking at a map, not asking the question?


What worries me is when people seem prepared to sell up everything, give up their jobs, their homes - everything and move over here without even having a job to come to - its ok if you're young, free and single or dont need to work, but jobs arent easy to come by over here at the moment, theres no dole money or social housing if it fails and life isnt that cheap here anymore. If people blow all their money on coming here, how do they afford to go back??


I guess when we were making plans to come here, I niavely thought it would be easy to get work, it would be cheap to live, the sun would be shining, we could walk around quaint little white washed villages, stopping off at street corner bars or laze by the pool, the kids would grow up in a sunny and safe environment...... Fortunately my OH was more grounded and did his homework, cos its nothing like that. 

That said, provided you have an income and are realistic, it IS a wonderful place to be!

Jo


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## littleredrooster (Aug 3, 2008)

With regard to the negativity aspect,having been involved in a few forums in other countries, I think it is inevitable that most of them appear to be that way.
Most of the positive things get a brief mention and are put to one side, whereas the negatives subjects, the various problems and pitfalls can sometimes be very complex with so many people often having different opinions and offering conflicting advice.
However after much discussion the wheat is usually sorted from the chaff and good advice and guidance prevails.
In a nutshell my point is that what appears to be very negative eventually is turned into a positive.
Therefore the negativity is an optical illusion.
It is simply positive thinking rather than sitting on your backside doing nowt.
I like to think my glass is always half full, at least,especially in Spain.


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## littleredrooster (Aug 3, 2008)

Anyway most Brits are only Happy feeling Grumpy (as in Snowhite).
If they had nothing to complain about,how they gonna pass the time away in sunny Spain,especially the miserable old retired codgers.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

littleredrooster said:


> Anyway most Brits are only Happy feeling Grumpy (as in Snowhite).
> If they had nothing to complain about,how they gonna pass the time away in sunny Spain,especially the miserable old retired codgers.



LOL, moaning about the heat of course!!!

Jo x


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## dizzy (Jul 12, 2008)

littleredrooster said:


> .
> Therefore the negativity is an optical illusion.
> I like to think my glass is always half full, at least,especially in Spain.


I agree and my glass is always at least half full of tinto vino - not in Spain yet but working on it.... roll on September


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## rjnpenang (Feb 20, 2008)

*Tinto vino/vino tinto*



dizzy said:


> I agree and my glass is always at least half full of tinto vino - not in Spain yet but working on it.... roll on September


Its vino tinto !. Rob


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

rjnpenang said:


> Its vino tinto !. Rob



That depends on how much you've had!!!!!!

Jo


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## rjnpenang (Feb 20, 2008)

Surely my reply deserves an extra green thingy?


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## dizzy (Jul 12, 2008)

It also depends on what time of day it is and how much brain power you have left when writing posts.....


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

rjnpenang said:


> Surely my reply deserves an extra green thingy?



Apparently I have to "spread more reputation round" before I can give anymore to you!!?????????

Jo


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

littleredrooster said:


> ,especially the miserable old retired codgers.


Steady now!


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## owdoggy (Jul 23, 2008)

littleredrooster said:


> especially the miserable old retired codgers.


After chrimbo I'm going to be one of these ..........so I better get some practise in ............... the weather's cack, me back's playing up again, can't understand the lingo, the dog's got measles, the car's knackered, Spanish sausages are naff, the ale's like bilge water, I'm not paying that for a cabbage!!, our lass is getting bitten to death and it's all my fault so I'm still King Cack of Sh!te Mountain

How am I doing?



Doggy


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## rjnpenang (Feb 20, 2008)

You sound pretty normal to me!, Rob ( miserable? old? retired codger)


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## littleredrooster (Aug 3, 2008)

Spot on Doggy,except one other little pitfall,----You forgot the "Manana",which does not mean Tomorrow as some naive Brits think, but "Sometime in the Future."
Meaning if you thought the plumber said he was coming back to repair your burst in the morning he could even mean in a years time!
Try instead for Manana POR LA MANANA(with a Spanish accent)-which if you are lucky may be closer to a month than a year.


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## littleredrooster (Aug 3, 2008)

Just wondering about your handle "Doggy" and if you know of a village in the Durham area which normally goes under that same name?


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## littleredrooster (Aug 3, 2008)

By the way Doggy,if you are looking for some really cheap cheep accomodation there are lots of quite nice caves in that neck of the woods.
Dont knock it till you`ve tried it cos some are done out to quite a good standard and they have the added benefit of staying cool through the Summer yet reasonably warm in the Winter.
Could save you a fortune on the coal bill and your lass wont have to worry about cleaning the windows every day.
Some are a half house type building and half cave built into the rock face.
Should be lots of vacancies with all these Morrocans hi-tailing it back to Africa.


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## owdoggy (Jul 23, 2008)

> Spot on Doggy,except one other little pitfall,----You forgot the "Manana",which does not mean Tomorrow as some naive Brits think, but "Sometime in the Future."
> Meaning if you thought the plumber said he was coming back to repair your burst in the morning he could even mean in a years time!
> Try instead for Manana POR LA MANANA(with a Spanish accent)-which if you are lucky may be closer to a month than a year.


Aye but my motto has always been "Never do today what you can put off 'till tomorrow" so I'm hoping to learn from the experts.
I'm not an ambitious person ............ 



> Just wondering about your handle "Doggy" and if you know of a village in the Durham area which normally goes under that same name?


Must be West Cornforth? South Bank in Middlesbrough also has the same nickname but no, my nickname stems from being in a band (one of many) called Red Dog, a long, long, LONG time ago ....... when I had hair



> By the way Doggy,if you are looking for some really cheap cheep accomodation there are lots of quite nice caves in that neck of the woods.
> Dont knock it till you`ve tried it cos some are done out to quite a good standard and they have the added benefit of staying cool through the Summer yet reasonably warm in the Winter.
> Could save you a fortune on the coal bill and your lass wont have to worry about cleaning the windows every day.
> Some are a half house type building and half cave built into the rock face.
> Should be lots of vacancies with all these Morrocans hi-tailing it back to Africa.


They are interesting and we love the quirkyness of them but me & Sue have definite criteria for Casa Doggy (Perro?) If they meet that then you never know ................ a Doggy in a cave? ............ could be quite appropriate as Sue reckons I look like a trog first thing in the morning


Doggy


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## dizzy (Jul 12, 2008)

jo, what is this rep power thingy all about and how does one acquire it?


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## rjnpenang (Feb 20, 2008)

Dizzy, Top right hand corner of my post, next to "permalink" (set of scales)you can vote on my reputation which I think will increase my rep power and increase my green thingys, so it would be the same for you, (right Cindy?) anyway, what are you going to do with your rep power?
I know this has been discussed elsewhere in the forum. Regards Rob


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## dizzy (Jul 12, 2008)

Thanks for the info Rob. I don't know what to do with rep power was just wondering about it - is all. What does it all mean?


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## chris(madrid) (Mar 23, 2008)

dizzy said:


> jo, what is this rep power thingy all about and how does one acquire it?


Does it matter? Personally I couldn't care less!


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## crookesey (May 22, 2008)

owdoggy said:


> Seconded
> 
> 
> 
> ...


We spent one week in Roquetas a few years ago and fell very lucky. We stayed at the far end, next to the golf course and near to the National Park. It was quiet but with enough to satisfy us, however if you go into the town proper it's a mini Benidorm, very British, I even saw an all day soaps bar. IMHO it's fine for a base whilst you are exploring but I think that Spain offers better places than Roquetas, can't speak for the rest of Almeria but didn't like the look of what I saw between the resort and the airport. 

The wife and I have been looking on and off for a few years and have discounted Almeria, Murcia, the whole of the southern and central Costa Blanca and the southern costas. The latter was the hardest as there are some lovely spots down there, it was that bloody coast road that swung it as it frightened the living daylights out of us every time we used it. 

So it's the Northern Costa Blanca for us, very little high rise development, infact none between La Fustera and Moraira, a lovely winding coast road similar to ones in Cornwall but with mountains to one side and the sea to the other. You can live five miles inland and still have magnificent sea views as you will be elevated on the mountain side but you never feel isolated. 

Also, very important following last years awful floods (we were there at the time), elevated positions are very difficult to flood. I can't really do justice to it in this post but IMO you would do well to at least have a look around. Don't think Benidorm when you hear Costa Blanca, it has much to offer to a fellow Northerner making his escape from this bad weather.


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## owdoggy (Jul 23, 2008)

crookesey said:


> We spent one week in Roquetas a few years ago and fell very lucky. We stayed at the far end, next to the golf course and near to the National Park. It was quiet but with enough to satisfy us, however if you go into the town proper it's a mini Benidorm, very British, I even saw an all day soaps bar. IMHO it's fine for a base whilst you are exploring but I think that Spain offers better places than Roquetas, can't speak for the rest of Almeria but didn't like the look of what I saw between the resort and the airport.
> 
> The wife and I have been looking on and off for a few years and have discounted Almeria, Murcia, the whole of the southern and central Costa Blanca and the southern costas. The latter was the hardest as there are some lovely spots down there, it was that bloody coast road that swung it as it frightened the living daylights out of us every time we used it.
> 
> ...


Ta for that. We could well end up there but we are determined to have a rekky (or two .... or more) in Almeria first........ strange tho' we may be



Doggy


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## littleredrooster (Aug 3, 2008)

Spent quite a bit time in Benidorm.using it mainly as a base to look around.
Noticed South of Beni was a desert and the further South the more desert-like,so looked to the Northside and the further North the greener it was.
Searched the Gandia,Olivia areas also inland,but too busy,crazy prices and development everywhere.
Heard a whisper about the Valencian inland region so made a brief call on the drive back to the UK for Xmas.Loved the area at first sight.Found a B&B for the Fri night.
By Sunday morn had found the perfect place at the right price,had put down a small deposit and were back on the road for the UK!
Back one month later, completed and moved in.Never had a regret,just right in every way despite being a bit rough round the edges,and fantastic Spanish neighbours to boot.
Strange but sometimes it just happens that way,as on one brief holiday visit to the Canaries many moons ago.
Ive always been a cautious person,normally checking things out very carefully, yet on two occasions in Spain I just backed my hunch, took a chance and came out lucky
Yet on other occasions I have spent years carefully searching huge areas for something special,either with no success or only to eventually find that the paperwork was not in order.


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## carefreebrit (Aug 10, 2008)

I don't think it's negative to point out things which other people either wouldn't be in a position to know,or perhaps may not have thought about. When living in Spain we had to go to an ambulatorio quite often and were shocked that many of the other "visitors" were Brits clutching large brown envelopes containing their scans of one sort or another. We have also read about Brits having to return to UK for health reasons. Telling those thinking of moving here about the negativity of locals who cannot get speedy health care because of elderly foreigners is not a bad thing surely ?
My rose tinted glasses comment previously was based on the posts of many Brits thinking of moving to a particular country I have good knowledge of. They thought that buying a house for 5,000 euros would mean getting it turned into a luxury villa for a total of 15,000 euros. They were amazed at the low level of health care and bad infrasructure in a poor country. In short, many of them based their opinion of a foreign country on a one week package tour, or didn't fully understand that life in a Romanian village [For example] was a world away from a week in a small B&B in Scotland. People who lived in the country concerned had their factual information brushed aside with comments like "We are positive people and think all the world is wonderful"!


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## W1lk1 (Sep 3, 2008)

Just been reading through a few threads and say i have to agree with you Jojo.
I am a newbie on this site and have real intentions on moving to 'Sunny' Spain with my wife and 2 daughters in a years time. 

I have been looking through threads to get help and advise on living and working in Spain and must say that the replys that are being posted by those of you lucky enough to be in the warm, pollution free, fresh air are mainly negative.

Are things really that bad in Spain because you are starting to put me off the idea?


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## SunnySpain (Jul 30, 2008)

W1lk1 said:


> Just been reading through a few threads and say i have to agree with you Jojo.
> I am a newbie on this site and have real intentions on moving to 'Sunny' Spain with my wife and 2 daughters in a years time.
> 
> I have been looking through threads to get help and advise on living and working in Spain and must say that the replys that are being posted by those of you lucky enough to be in the warm, pollution free, fresh air are mainly negative.
> ...


Hi there and do you have an idea what part of Spain you would like to move to ?

The comments you read are actually good advice most of the time, as most expats return home within 12 months due to lack of funds normally, so its always good to go a bit of planning, but in answer to your question, it much depends on your individual circumstances and what your expectation are...

Regards, Dave


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## EmmaLouUK (Aug 4, 2008)

W1lk1 said:


> Just been reading through a few threads and say i have to agree with you Jojo.
> I am a newbie on this site and have real intentions on moving to 'Sunny' Spain with my wife and 2 daughters in a years time.
> 
> I have been looking through threads to get help and advise on living and working in Spain and must say that the replys that are being posted by those of you lucky enough to be in the warm, pollution free, fresh air are mainly negative.
> ...


From what I have been reading in my time here on the forums families have a bit more trouble because of schools and the price on accommodation for a family house also with the job unless you know you have a job to come to it can be hard but thats my sight on it maybe one of the Expats can help ya a bit more 
Emma


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## Pasanada (Feb 5, 2008)

I don't think people posting about the negative aspect is a bad thing, Spain isn't Utopia (Dubai is! ) and it's always a good idea for people to write about the pro's and con's of expat life. What you do with that advice is entirely up to you, but I wouldn't dismiss other peoples experiences simply to satisfy a dream, moving abroad is hard work and not to be taken on by the faint hearted!

Good luck to all those who dream of a new life in the sun but don't leave your common sense on the airport runway; there are vultures waiting for you out there!


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

To any would be expats reading this, Dont think you can sell your UK home, come over here, buy a villa with a pool, get a job and live happily everafter - it is not that simple. And thats what worried me. There is a recession in Spain, the building industry is collapsing, there is mass unemployment and rising inflation. BUT, if you plan and prepare sensibly and have a back-up plan should it not work out, then go for it, cos its a lovely place to live - apart from the mosquitoes and flies!!!!!

Jo


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

jojo said:


> To any would be expats reading this, Dont think you can sell your UK home, come over here, buy a villa with a pool, get a job and live happily everafter - it is not that simple. And thats what worried me. There is a recession in Spain, the building industry is collapsing, there is mass unemployment and rising inflation. BUT, if you plan and prepare sensibly and have a back-up plan should it not work out, then go for it, cos its a lovely place to live - apart from the mosquitoes and flies!!!!!
> 
> Jo


But if you come here to retire ......... then you can find your Utopia!


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## Pasanada (Feb 5, 2008)

Stravinsky said:


> But if you come here to retire ......... then you can find your Utopia!



I found Utopia, it certainly wasn't Spain! Lol


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

Pasanada said:


> I found Utopia, it certainly wasn't Spain! Lol



Well ...... different things for different people.
I live in a nice climate, reasonable cost of living, surrounded by nice people and its a good base to travel from. I dont have to worry about work.

For you its maybe different


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## Pasanada (Feb 5, 2008)

Sorry, Stravinsky, my post came across wrong!

Spain is wonderful, I spent almost 5 years living there permanently.....I've been spoiled unfortunately when I lived in the Middle East, now I'm torn between the 2!


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## rjnpenang (Feb 20, 2008)

Pasanada said:


> I don't think people posting about the negative aspect is a bad thing, Spain isn't Utopia (Dubai is! )
> Hi Pasanada, Never been to Dubai, tell me more. Regards Rob


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## Pasanada (Feb 5, 2008)

Hi Rob,

Please send me a private message with your questions, I'll be happy to answer as best as I can. Alternatively, visit the Dubai section of this forum.


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## EP GAZZ (Aug 26, 2008)

Pasanada said:


> Sorry, Stravinsky, my post came across wrong!
> 
> Spain is wonderful, I spent almost 5 years living there permanently.....I've been spoiled unfortunately when I lived in the Middle East, now I'm torn between the 2!


We have mates who live in the Middle East they loved Dubai, however they have been moved to Doha and they are not very big fans at all.

Suppose its like different parts of every region.


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## Pasanada (Feb 5, 2008)

Doha is ok but about 15 yrs behind Dubai. A friend of mine moved from Kuwait City and he dislikes Doha too.

Spain is beautiful, I've enjoyed living there, have made some wonderful friends, improved my Spanish but having experienced the Middle East, I'm seriously contemplating selling the Spanish villa and buying in Dubai/Abu Dhabi.....but it's just a thought for now.


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## decgraham (Apr 24, 2008)

I lived in Dubai from 1982 until 1992 there were about 2000 brits there then and the expat camaraderie was fantastic. Today there are in excess of 200,000 all looking for utopia in my humble opinion it does not exist!! The traffic is a nightmare, the humidity in the summer is unbearable, the cost of living is horrendous, add to this the guarantee of residency for owning a property has just been withdrawn, I would advise all to think carefully. Dubai is worth a visit but I wouldn’t want to live there, unless you want, and can afford the Ferrari life style. I lived 26 years in the ME all over except Saudi (not my cup of tea !!) and each place has it’s pluses and minuses but for me Dubai sacrificed its culture for commercialism, mind you it had very little oil so they didn’t have lot of choice. Shk Mohamed has done an amazing job with Dubai his vision has been like that of his late father’s Shk Rashid, made what some would call the impossible, possible and has set an example to all of the other GCC countries. The last time I was there the taxi driver said, “I go to bed and when I wake up in the morning Dubai has changed”

For me Spain is the place to be, I’ll retire there in just less than two years time. I like the style of life, the pace of life, the food, the people and can’t wait to get there.


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## Pasanada (Feb 5, 2008)

Hi Decgraham,

I'm surprised to hear of your experiences in the UAE, I've only ever come across positive comments about the region!

I have spent 5 years living in Spain and had a ball BUT the hope of a career, even with the ability to speak a reasonable level of Spanish, was virtually non existant for me. BUT, Spain gave me a lot of positives, it tested me personally and I'm pleased to say, I came out alright!

I found the opportunities available in Dubai to be in an abundance but only if you're willing to work hard. Maybe because of my background, I found Spain to lack what I was seeking.

As for the weather, I loved the heat! The traffic is a nightmare but I soon found other routes thus enabling me to avoid sitting on the Emirates Road for hours! Living costs I found to be reasonable, you just live within your means, as I did, and loved the better selection of goods available at Carrefour in the Mall of the Emirates.

Of course, at the end of the day, it's horses for courses. Although Spain will always have a special place in my heart (and I still own property there), I'm afraid I'm a massive fan of the Middle East, it's culture, language, culinary fayre, lovely shisha cafes and the people. It is the also the only region I felt safe from crime (although there is crime in Dubai!) and as a woman living alone, that is vital for me!


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## decgraham (Apr 24, 2008)

Hi Pasanada,

My time in the UAE back in the 80's was fantastic, you are absolutely right about being willing to work hard (it was the only way you survived) I too have a great passion for the ME (I would not of been here 26 years if it wasn't the case) All I'm saying is Dubai has changed, and for me far too much and not necessarily for the better. People I know who have gone to Dubai from other GCC countries do not like the place, and say they find it all a bit too much. 

One point worth mentioning is that the UAE population has only 7 to 8% Emirati’s the rest as you know are expats from all around the world. What I like most about Spain is that there are just a few more "locals" and with its incredible history and culture comes up trumps for me. 

I hope you find your way back to Dubai, your point about being safe is true and the point regarding crime but its still Viva Espania for me


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## Pasanada (Feb 5, 2008)

I appreciate what you're saying about Dubai, it can be rather brash and as I always say, it's a city without a soul.....

Abu Dhabi was my favourite emirate, it's so diverse yet retains it's true character but then AD has years of oil left and doesn't have to pander to the tourist!! 

Doha in Qatar was ok but I found it very primitive compared to Dubai, however, it's slowly starting with the big skyscrapers......

Spain is wonderful, I've made many Spanish friends who have taken me into their families, which is a huge honour! I've celebrated fiesta's dedicated to a sardine (don't ask!!lol), enjoyed Moors & Christiano fiestas and had great fun being taught Spanish or should I say the Murcian/Torrevieja version!! I recently holidayed in Dubai with some friends, one being a Spaniard and he loved shisha bars, belly dancers (Spanish men have good roving eyes!! lol) and the architecture. I find Spanish people full of life, fun and a carefree attitude, which suits me down to the ground! 

Good luck with your new life in Spain, I hope you get out of the country what I did, it's a wonderful place to retire to.


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