# Immigration question for Legal Man



## Saartjie (Mar 1, 2010)

Hi there,

Been away from the forum for quite some time.

A bit of an update before my question. I have been back in Sweden since June. Main reason for long stay is that I am due to give birth to my second child in October and decided that I wanted to be close to my family this time.

Now to my question. I am due to return to SA in November. I am aware of the new immigration laws and that I will need to present the unabridged birth certificate as well as consent affidavit from other parent as traveling alone. I was considering registering the birth etc at the SA embassy here in Sweden but after speaking to them I understand that the whole process of registering birth, applying for the unabridged birth cert and the passport will exceed 6 months. The embassy has advised me to apply for a Swedish passport for the baby and deal with the registration of the birth once I arrive in SA.

Now I know the new regulations state that you cannot arrive on a tourist visa and then apply for TR or PR in SA anymore. What I need to know is does this apply to my situation. The baby would arrive on a tourist visa but we are not intending to apply for another visa but rather register him as South African. Would you know the answer to this?

I am rather stressed about this since if the above is not possible i will need to jump on a plane within the next two weeks (as not allowed to fly after that due to pregnancy) if the answer is no.

I would really really appreciate your thoughts on the above.

Saartjie


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## LegalMan (Dec 26, 2012)

First of all, congrats! Children are wonderful!

Secondly, please relax. All will be fine. Wherever you want to have your child, do so in that country.

Next, I recall that you had already had a visa in South Africa, no? Do you still have a valid visa in your passport? If yes, once born, your baby can simply apply for a Accompanying Minor Visa, which should be very easy for the Swedish SA Embassy, even though I've heard they are not easy to deal with.

But even if not, make sure to register the birth of the child with Home Affairs within the first 30 days of being born. A late registration of birth is irritating. That way, whatever your child arrives in SA on, you can just use the registration of birth to apply for an ID and passport.

That unabridged birth certificate is very important in more ways than one.


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## Saartjie (Mar 1, 2010)

LegalMan said:


> First of all, congrats! Children are wonderful!
> 
> Secondly, please relax. All will be fine. Wherever you want to have your child, do so in that country.
> 
> ...


Thank you so much for your quick response. 
Just a couple of follow up questions:

1. The Accompanying Minor Visa - cant find any info on this anywhere. What are the requirements to get it and does it take long to get?
2. The embassy has told me that the current waiting time for an unabridged bc is 6 months. That is why I hoped that we could travel on a Swedish passport with the Swedish equivalent of the unabridged bc. Happy to submit the registration of the birth application at the embassy before I leave so that it is captured within the 30 days. Can I do this?

Yes I have a valid PR in my passport.

Thank you again!


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## LegalMan (Dec 26, 2012)

Hmmmm - you have PR. I have seen people enter with children (and prove it is their child) and the child receives a TRV right away at the airport. But it's rare.



> 1. The Accompanying Minor Visa - cant find any info on this anywhere. What are the requirements to get it and does it take long to get?


Accompanying Minor/Spouse are types of Relative's Visas. Should take under 6-8 weeks in Sweden. Days in Denmark.



> 2. The embassy has told me that the current waiting time for an unabridged bc is 6 months. That is why I hoped that we could travel on a Swedish passport with the Swedish equivalent of the unabridged bc. Happy to submit the registration of the birth application at the embassy before I leave so that it is captured within the 30 days. Can I do this?


You must do that. Do it as soon as you can walk/go to the embassy.

I'm more concerned about you traveling without an unabridged birth certificate than getting your child's visa in Sweden or in SA. Can you get a Swedish unabridged/long form birth certificate before you travel? If yes, then travel into SA on that and sort out the visa issue later?


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## Saartjie (Mar 1, 2010)

LegalMan said:


> Hmmmm - you have PR. I have seen people enter with children (and prove it is their child) and the child receives a TRV right away at the airport. But it's rare.
> 
> 
> Accompanying Minor/Spouse are types of Relative's Visas. Should take under 6-8 weeks in Sweden. Days in Denmark.
> ...


We do have a similar document to the unabridged bc here. It shows full details of person with full details of parents. You can get it in English and it is stamped by the relevant authority. I will also get it Appostilled to be on the safe side. 

So I guess the best thing to do then is as follows:

1. As soon as baby is born I will submit the registration application to the embassy. 
2. Once baby has been registered by Swedish authorities I will apply for the Swedish passport and the unabridged bc and get this Appostilled.
3. Upon my return to SA I will await the birth registration confirmation and will then get unabridged bc for future purposes.

The embassy here is useless so if I can avoid any visa applications that would be great.


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## LegalMan (Dec 26, 2012)

That sounds fine. You can then apply for everything (ID, passport, etc) in SA. After all, it's a SA child too.


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## Saartjie (Mar 1, 2010)

LegalMan said:


> That sounds fine. You can then apply for everything (ID, passport, etc) in SA. After all, it's a SA child too.


That is kind of why I am slightly confused. Won't it appear rather strange with me entering on my PR, my daughter on her SA passport and the baby on a Swedish passport with no permit (apart from the visitors permit I hope that they give him at the airport). I just have this horrible feeling that there will be problems. Still I will have the consent affidavit from the dad and he will be meeting us at the airport so hopefully any problems can be sorted out. I just wish there was more certainty.


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## LegalMan (Dec 26, 2012)

Your child will receive a Visitor's Visa, but there is nothing stopping you from getting his unabridged birth certificate and then going to apply for an ID - at Home Affairs (not VFS!) like any other South African.


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## Saartjie (Mar 1, 2010)

LegalMan said:


> Your child will receive a Visitor's Visa, but there is nothing stopping you from getting his unabridged birth certificate and then going to apply for an ID - at Home Affairs (not VFS!) like any other South African.


Cool. I will proceed on this basis then. Thank you so much for this!


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## Saartjie (Mar 1, 2010)

Hi Legal Man,

My mother in law just sent me a copy of a news paper article from the Burger from last week. It basically says that the regulations relating to the unabridged birth certificate and the consent letters for traveling with children in and out of SA have been set aside. Not sure if you read Afrikaans but copying the text below (use google translator if you want it in English). Have you heard of this? It would make my life so much easier if this is correct. Look forward to your thoughts. Here is the article:

KAAPSTAD. – ’n Besluit van die nasionale minister van binnelandse sake om minstens twee van die nuwe visumregulasies vir eers ter syde te stel, is ook op provinsiale vlak verwelkom.
Alan Winde, Wes-Kaapse minister van ekonomiese geleenthede, het gister gesê hy verwelkom Malusi Gigaba se besluit om die regulasie oor volledige geboortesertifikate en toestemmingsbriewe van albei ouers vir kinders vir eers tersyde te stel.
Ingevolge dié regulasies word ouers verplig om volledige geboortesertifikate te toon wanneer hulle met hul kinders na of van Suid-Afrika reis. Dié sertifikaat moet ook van toestemmingsbriewe van albei ouers vergesel word.
Volgens Winde is die impak van dié regulasie nie behoorlik deurdink nie en sou dit ’n baie negatiewe impak op toerisme in veral die Wes-Kaap gehad het.
“Die provinsie se departement van toerisme het enkele dae nadat die regulasies bekend gemaak is tientalle navrae in verband met die regulasies gehad.
“Verskeie toeriste na en van Wes-Kaapse toerismebestemmings was paniekbevange.”
Volgens Winde is hy verheug oor Gigaba se besluit en sal hy ook seker maak dat ’n volledige impakstudie oor die gevolge van die visumregulasies gedoen en aan Gigaba oorhandig word voordat dié regulasies heringestel word.
Van die regulasies wat reeds in werking gestel is, is niks anders as ’n bedreiging vir die land se toerismebedryf nie. Dit bedreig reeds talle werksgeleenthede in dié sektor.
Volgens Winde verwelkom hy voorts Gigaba se bereidwilligheid om met ander staatsdepartemente en die toerismebedryf saam te werk om veral werkskepping te beskerm.
“Daar is verskeie ander maniere om seker te maak dat onwettige en onwelkome mense Suid-Afrika nie binnekom nie. Die gebruik van tegnologie soos elektroniese visums kan dié probleem teenwerk. Dit sal die land ook meer aantreklik maak vir sake- en ontspanningstoeriste.”


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## Saartjie (Mar 1, 2010)

Re my previous post. I have just found several articles confirming that the regulations have been postponed until June 2015. Happy days indeed as this will save me a lot of hassle!!!


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## Jujube (Sep 12, 2011)

Sorry to jump on that thread but it is something quite similar:

my sister-in-law (SA citizen) & her husband (Canadian, Permanent Residency Holder in SA) have decided to leave Canada & move back to Cape Town at the end of the year.

During their stint in Canada, they had 2 children:
* both children are born in Canada & have Canadian passports
* none have south african passport
* Child 1 has a 'abridged' birth certificate
* child 2 (3 years old) birth has never been registered

Now the whole family has probably come to visit us here in Cape Town 2/3 time over the last 3 years, using their canadian passports to get in the country without any issues.

HOWEVER, apparently due to some changes in the law earlier this year, it is now illegal for south african citizens to enter the country on anything other than their SA passports. Could that be correct? I couldn;t find this info on internet.

My suggestion to them is:
1) use Canadian passports to enter the country here as visitors (3 months)
2) register child 2 birth here in SA
3) apply for unabridged birth certificate once here in Cape Town
4) apply for SA passports once unabridged birth certificates received

however I'd want to make sure that I'm not misleading them, especially in regards to entering the country on non-sa passports (although SA citizens) but also staying (over-staying) in SA on a visitors' visa.

Thanks so much for your help.


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## Saartjie (Mar 1, 2010)

Jujube said:


> Sorry to jump on that thread but it is something quite similar:
> 
> my sister-in-law (SA citizen) & her husband (Canadian, Permanent Residency Holder in SA) have decided to leave Canada & move back to Cape Town at the end of the year.
> 
> ...


Hi,

As far as I know, it has always been illegal for a SA passport holder yo enter and leave the country on anything but their SA passport. With child 1 I guess there are two options, either apply for the SA passport and enter on that or don't bother to apply and enter on the Canadian passport. As they have entered on the Canadian one before I don't see that they could really stop him from entering as he does not have an SA passport. But, I think Legal man should give you his thoughts on the above just in case things have changed.

Child 2 is easier. He/she has not been registered and therefore is not yet a SA citizen. He/she can therefore enter on the Canadian passport and get the visitors visa. When in the country, go down to register the child asap at HA. A penalty will probably need to be paid as births should be registered within 30 days of birth and some additional docs, like affidavits from the parents as well as explanations why the registration is late (ie have lived abroad) will need to be supplied. The new initiative by HA is that they issue Unabridged BCs straight away. Not sure if they actually do this but someone else should be able to confirm. Once received, you can get the passport.

Lets get Legal man's views on the above before you advice them.


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## LegalMan (Dec 26, 2012)

Saartjie said:


> Re my previous post. I have just found several articles confirming that the regulations have been postponed until June 2015. Happy days indeed as this will save me a lot of hassle!!!


This is for certain regulations, not all of them.


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## LegalMan (Dec 26, 2012)

Jujube said:


> Sorry to jump on that thread but it is something quite similar:
> 
> my sister-in-law (SA citizen) & her husband (Canadian, Permanent Residency Holder in SA) have decided to leave Canada & move back to Cape Town at the end of the year.
> 
> ...


Sorry for my late reply, I've been overseas.

How can anyone enter on an SA passport if Home Affairs hasn't issued them one? Simply register the births and apply for passports and also obtain unabridged certificates as you'll need them later.


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## Saartjie (Mar 1, 2010)

LegalMan said:


> This is for certain regulations, not all of them.


Sorry I meant that the ones that were giving me hassle had been postponed (ie the unabridged BC and consent affidavit).


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## MissGlobal (Aug 4, 2012)

Actually Saartjie - I traveled for years with a letter from Home Affairs that allowed me to travel with my US passport even though I was also a SA citizen. It basically said I had permission to. Some years back though I was told I could no longer do that - so I finally got my SA passport. 

I'm a dual citizen so I always had a US passport as I'm US born - but I have SA citizenship because my parents are.

And I recommend they just go to the SA embassy and get a birth certificate, and passport for the kids. It can be requested remotely.



Saartjie said:


> Hi,
> 
> As far as I know, it has always been illegal for a SA passport holder yo enter and leave the country on anything but their SA passport. With child 1 I guess there are two options, either apply for the SA passport and enter on that or don't bother to apply and enter on the Canadian passport. As they have entered on the Canadian one before I don't see that they could really stop him from entering as he does not have an SA passport. But, I think Legal man should give you his thoughts on the above just in case things have changed.
> 
> ...


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## Saartjie (Mar 1, 2010)

MissGlobal said:


> Actually Saartjie - I traveled for years with a letter from Home Affairs that allowed me to travel with my US passport even though I was also a SA citizen. It basically said I had permission to. Some years back though I was told I could no longer do that - so I finally got my SA passport.
> 
> I'm a dual citizen so I always had a US passport as I'm US born - but I have SA citizenship because my parents are.
> 
> And I recommend they just go to the SA embassy and get a birth certificate, and passport for the kids. It can be requested remotely.


Fair comment. My experience is limited to my daughter and she must use her SA passport for entering and leaving SA and her Swedish passport for entering and leaving Sweden. I also think they wanted to avoid the waiting time for getting an Unabridged BC. All embassies are different but here in Sweden the SA embassy has confirmed to me that the current waiting time for the UBC is 6 months. Canada might be quicker though.


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## Jujube (Sep 12, 2011)

Waiting time for UBC is also 6 months, so this won't solve the issue of getting into the country in Dec. Officials in Toronto have recommended that the one applies for a Relative's visa (as quite quick to be delivered) & the other one for an emergency travel certificate.


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## LegalMan (Dec 26, 2012)

Jujube said:


> Waiting time for UBC is also 6 months, so this won't solve the issue of getting into the country in Dec. Officials in Toronto have recommended that the one applies for a Relative's visa (as quite quick to be delivered) & the other one for an emergency travel certificate.


You won't need an unabridged birth certificate in December 2014. This rule has been postponed to June 2015.


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## Jujube (Sep 12, 2011)

As per Toronto's officials, the problem is coming on a visitors' visa (3 months, then potentially extending it for another 3 months) but not receiving the unabridged birth certificate during that time. This would automatically put the child in an illegal solution & to avoid this she will have to fly back to Canada at great expenses.

so suggestion is to get Relative's visa, enter SA, get unabridged BC then apply for passport.


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