# US citizen denied UK visa



## Michelle_ (Sep 6, 2012)

Hi, 
I hope that I am posting in the right place, this is my first time here but I really would like some help for this issue and I don't know where else to go! 

*Firstly I would like to ask if he can still come on holiday to the UK even though he has been denied a visa (if so what amount of time can he stay?)*

Basically my 25 year old boyfriend holds a US passport and has been denied a visitor's visa to the UK (6 months). It's probably our fault for not sending enough documents (even though he thought he did, they weren't good enough), but we really want to know what to do to make it work. Please know that his true intentions are to come to the UK to find a job in the UK so that he can be transferred from a visitor's visa to a work visa. If he can't find a job in the time frame, then of course he will treat the visit like a visit, and return back to the US.

His previous visits were in January 2012 for 3 months, and October 2011 for 2 weeks.

*Here is the section of the letter which explained the reasons for denial: * (i can't post the image since i'm too new a member, but here is the link - it's just an image, not a download or anything)
//img820.imageshack.us/img820/7360/denial.png





From this, I would like someone to help confirm what kind of documents we should send in case of an appeal (do we even have the right to appeal?) or reapplication.
Is there a better way to do it (apart from getting married which we are probably going to do in the worst-case scenario).





If anyone has the time to read what I have written below to give more precise answers that would be great, but if you have answers to the above already and don't need to read the below, then that's fine, I would still love to hear from you.

1. It seems I need to provide stronger evidence that I am aware of his visit, and that I support his application. Also that I can accommodate him and that I myself am allowed to be in the UK. What documents can I give to prove all of this? For the initial application, I sent an email explaining that I know he is going to visit, and that I can provide food & accommodation for him during his stay, however I did not state a definite time frame because he had not booked his tickets yet. 

To further complicate this:
I am a 20 year old UK student (I have always lived here, I have UK student loans & grants). I am unemployed, however I do earn about $250-500 a month by freelancing art services (online service & payment through Paypal.) So I feel like anything I offer they will just throw back at my face because it's not good enough. I am however renting a flat from September which will be in my name so there is that to show that I can at least let him live there.


2. He doesn't have 'sufficient' economic/personal ties to the US to ensure his return to the US; how can he prove this... it is true that he is unemployed and technically nothing keeps him in the US. He doesn't have children...


3. He provided some bank statements and some statements from his investment accounts. They had an issue with his investment account statements which is under his name, and he can actually use and withdraw funds from whenever he wants to. How can he prove that he can use the funds from his investment account to fund his stay in the UK over the 6 months? It seems a bit ridiculous to me that they don't believe he can use them if he wants to if they are under his name? 

To further complicate this issue, on his bank accounts there are some Paypal deposits from my US-based clients which have hired me for freelance services.(usually in chunks of $10 to 100 but they total about USD$600-700). This is not a source of income for him. This is income that I have earnt myself, which I have decided to put into his US Paypal account (linked to his US bank account) rather than my UK Paypal account (linked to my UK bank account), since 99% of my clients are US based and it is easier and cheaper for payment to be in USD. I feel like this issue is so uniquely stupid and annoying to explain to them, and that they are just not going to believe us when we explain it. (I mean they didn't even believe he could use his investment funds for his stay so why should they believe this?)



Sorry about the length of this post, we are just really confused and stuck and would appreciate any of your help.
Thank you


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## nyclon (Apr 3, 2011)

> Please know that his true intentions are to come to the UK to find a job in the UK so that he can be transferred from a visitor's visa to a work visa. If he can't find a job in the time frame, then of course he will treat the visit like a visit, and return back to the US.


You can't transfer from a visit visa to any other kind of visa. Period. He would have to return to the US no matter what. 

In the unlikely event that he finds someone to sponsor him for a work visa, he will have to return to the US to make his application. I say unlikely for several reasons. First, there are just 20,700 work visas available per year and they go to those with extraordinary skills, experience and qualifications. What sort of qualifications does he have? Second, unless he has a skill that is on the shortage occupation list, any one who wants to employ him will 1st have to prove that there is no one in the UK or EU who can fill the position. That's about 500 million people. Third, the 1st question that any potential employer is going to ask him is "do you have a visa which already allows you to work in the UK?". Fourth, as you probably know, unemployment in the UK is high and there are loads of people out of work. Like it or not, employers lean towards hiring UK citizens and residents as well as those who already have UK experience.


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## Michelle_ (Sep 6, 2012)

nyclon said:


> You can't transfer from a visit visa to any other kind of visa. Period. He would have to return to the US no matter what.
> 
> In the unlikely event that he finds someone to sponsor him for a work visa, he will have to return to the US to make his application. I say unlikely for several reasons. First, there are just 20,700 work visas available per year and they go to those with extraordinary skills, experience and qualifications. What sort of qualifications does he have? Second, unless he has a skill that is on the shortage occupation list, any one who wants to employ him will 1st have to prove that there is no one in the UK or EU who can fill the position. That's about 500 million people. Third, the 1st question that any potential employer is going to ask him is "do you have a visa which already allows you to work in the UK?". Fourth, as you probably know, unemployment in the UK is high and there are loads of people out of work. Like it or not, employers lean towards hiring UK citizens and residents as well as those who already have UK experience.


We are aware that he would have to return to the US (and that's fine and completely doable). I probably didn't articulate it very well, but believe me I am just as doubtful as you are about finding a job which will offer him a work visa for the same reasons. 

The visit is just as much about being with me as it is being hopeful about prospective job interviews, which is why I've tried to explain it's fine with us if he doesn't manage to get a sponsor down whilst here in the UK. Our plan B regarding work is of course to find a US-based company with extensions in the UK.

But thank you for your input! I would love if you could answer some of the questions at hand.
If anyone is interested, he has a degree in Mechanical Engineering.

I would really like an answer as to whether or not he will even be permitted entry into the UK for a regular holiday now that he has been rejected for a visa (and I do understand being denied entry is a different thing to being rejected for a visa) 

Thanks again


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Why did he apply for a visitor visa? Americans don't need one. Or does he have poor immigration history like previously denied visa, deportation, denied entry etc?


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## nyclon (Apr 3, 2011)

I believe if he was denied a visit visa he will now always have to apply for a visa to visit the UK.


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## Jake_ (Sep 6, 2012)

Joppa said:


> Why did he apply for a visitor visa? Americans don't need one. Or does he have poor immigration history like previously denied visa, deportation, denied entry etc?


Hi there;

I applied for a visitor visa because I thought it would be the right thing to do now. I've visited the country previously without a visa and left properly as what's stated in the laws when visiting. I honestly just thought it would be an honest and good thing to do in order to have better relations with the country at the border. I was naive to think that the information I supplied wouldn't have been doubted completely and lead to a refusal of entry clearance. I've never had any poor history within any country and have been a lawful abiding person where ever I have been present. I'm a little bit shocked that I've been permitted entry to a country before without supplying any information about myself except through my passport alone, and now here I am paying money to further myself on how I'm a responsible and financially secure person to come back yet to have received a refusal of entry clearance. It's a really confusing situation I find myself to be in.


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## Crawford (Jan 23, 2011)

Jake_ said:


> Hi there;
> 
> I applied for a visitor visa because I thought it would be the right thing to do now. I've visited the country previously without a visa and left properly as what's stated in the laws when visiting. I honestly just thought it would be an honest and good thing to do in order to have better relations with the country at the border. I was naive to think that the information I supplied wouldn't have been doubted completely and lead to a refusal of entry clearance. I've never had any poor history within any country and have been a lawful abiding person where ever I have been present. I'm a little bit shocked that I've been permitted entry to a country before without supplying any information about myself except through my passport alone, and now here I am paying money to further myself on how I'm a responsible and financially secure person to come back yet to have received a refusal of entry clearance. It's a really confusing situation I find myself to be in.


Who are you? Are you the boyfriend of Michelle, the OP?


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## Jake_ (Sep 6, 2012)

Crawford said:


> Who are you? Are you the boyfriend of Michelle, the OP?


Ah, yes, I'm her boyfriend. I'm very sorry, I should have made that clear in my first post. I really appreciate the replies and help we're getting. It's really super kind.


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## nyclon (Apr 3, 2011)

Like Joppa said, Americans don't generally need to apply for a visit visa in advance unless they have had problems before so it's puzzling why you felt it necessary. Unfortunately, now you'll have to apply for a visa prior to any further visits or risk being refused entry.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

You may be granted a multi-entry visit visa valid 1, 2, 5 or 10 years (each visit limited to 6 months) so that you don't have to apply for a fresh visa for each visit, but it's unlikely to be issued to a boyfriend of a British citizen (too great a risk of overstay, illegal work etc).


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## Michelle_ (Sep 6, 2012)

nyclon said:


> Like Joppa said, Americans don't generally need to apply for a visit visa in advance unless they have had problems before so it's puzzling why you felt it necessary. Unfortunately, now you'll have to apply for a visa prior to any further visits or risk being refused entry.


I do not think it is that puzzling unless you are already familiar with such visa issues..! Honestly thought 6 months minimum stay was quite long. I'm sure we felt we could get away without one, but that it was kind of the "good" thing to do (clearly there is no real "good" thing to do now.) Anyway thanks for answering our question about re-entering the UK. Now we know.


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## Jake_ (Sep 6, 2012)

Joppa said:


> You may be granted a multi-entry visit visa valid 1, 2, 5 or 10 years (each visit limited to 6 months) so that you don't have to apply for a fresh visa for each visit, but it's unlikely to be issued to a boyfriend of a British citizen (too great a risk of overstay, illegal work etc).


Hey Joppa, I think you're the only guy who can offer me some peace of mind right now. Do you think you can advise me on how to undo this mess, or tell me how I should go about this? Should I be going for the appeal? Thanks so much for your time.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Jake_ said:


> Hey Joppa, I think you're the only guy who can offer me some peace of mind right now. Do you think you can advise me on how to undo this mess, or tell me how I should go about this? Should I be going for the appeal? Thanks so much for your time.


I think the right of appeal for a general visitor visa has been abolished, except for those visiting a close family member - spouse, parent, child etc but not boy/girlfriend. If you letter of refusal says nothing about the right of appeal, you don't have any. All you can do is to re-apply, answering the reasons why your previous visa has been denied.

It's really very unfortunate you decided to get a visitor visa, when previously you have had no problems entering UK. Now you have this black mark on your immigration record, and it has to be disclosed every time you apply for a visa or entry permit, for ever (until you become a British citizen). Now, should in future you want to settle in UK by getting married or entering into committed relationship to a British citizen, the fact you have been refused visitor visa does not, in itself, disqualify you from it, but you still have to own up and they will look at it. In any future application, always enclose a covering letter describing what happened, how you take responsibility for the refusal and you are prepared to meet all the conditions for a visa/leave.

I also want to point out that you don't *have *to get a visitor visa next time you want to come to UK. When the immigration officer at the UK border puts your passport into a reader, your visa refusal should flash up on their screen. Don't say anything until they bring it up. To have any chance of entry, you must meet all the conditions for a general visitor, so carry all the supporting documents. It's likely that they will want to take time over your case and you will be taken into an interview room. Keep calm and answer their questions, clearly and briefly, but don't volunteer any extra information not asked for. I think you stand an equal chance of being allowed in as applying for a visitor visa in advance. And having a record of successful admissions into UK will improve your standing with UKBA.


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## Jake_ (Sep 6, 2012)

Joppa said:


> I think the right of appeal for a general visitor visa has been abolished, except for those visiting a close family member - spouse, parent, child etc but not boy/girlfriend. If you letter of refusal says nothing about the right of appeal, you don't have any. All you can do is to re-apply, answering the reasons why your previous visa has been denied.
> 
> It's really very unfortunate you decided to get a visitor visa, when previously you have had no problems entering UK. Now you have this black mark on your immigration record, and it has to be disclosed every time you apply for a visa or entry permit, for ever (until you become a British citizen). Now, should in future you want to settle in UK by getting married or entering into committed relationship to a British citizen, the fact you have been refused visitor visa does not, in itself, disqualify you from it, but you still have to own up and they will look at it. In any future application, always enclose a covering letter describing what happened, how you take responsibility for the refusal and you are prepared to meet all the conditions for a visa/leave.
> 
> I also want to point out that you don't *have *to get a visitor visa next time you want to come to UK. When the immigration officer at the UK border puts your passport into a reader, your visa refusal should flash up on their screen. Don't say anything until they bring it up. To have any chance of entry, you must meet all the conditions for a general visitor, so carry all the supporting documents. It's likely that they will want to take time over your case and you will be taken into an interview room. Keep calm and answer their questions, clearly and briefly, but don't volunteer any extra information not asked for. I think you stand an equal chance of being allowed in as applying for a visitor visa in advance. And having a record of successful admissions into UK will improve your standing with UKBA.


Thank you so much for your help, Joppa, I really cannot thank you enough for your responses so far. 

On the right to appeal, my letter does state that I... somewhat have a right to appeal... but after looking it up it doesn't seem great, and it doesn't seem like something that I'd be able to do myself (without help from a lawyer/solicitor or professional persons who can deal with the case for me.) It says at the end of the letter that I have a right to appeal like this:

"Your right to appeal is limited to the grounds referred to in section 84(1)(c) of the Nationality, Immigration and Asylum Act 2002."

Now when I follow the information to that listing I get:

"84 Grounds of appeal

(1)An appeal under section 82(1) against an immigration decision must be brought on one or more of the following grounds—
(c)that the decision is unlawful under section 6 of the Human Rights Act 1998 (c. 42) (public authority not to act contrary to Human Rights Convention) as being incompatible with the appellant’s Convention rights;"

Owning up to the black mark is something I'm already prepared to do (saddened by, but prepared for.) I know that I can meet the requirements to prove what they want, it's just I really need to get it right now so that everything can go as smoothly as possible; can you suggest any key documents to solve the issues, both for if I go for the appeal/reapplication of a visa, and if I go ahead and try to visit the UK without a visa? I've thought of including a cover letter thanks to your suggestion, a letter from my investment services I'm a customer of, an explanation of funds in my bank account, a letter showing my girlfriend's dates provided that I may stay with her, information about her finances and family, trip plans, and actually any way that I can improve upon my information about my finances. They really didn't believe that the money listed in my bank account and investments were mine to do as I pleased with. Will that be sufficient, do you think?

Your last paragraph helped so much. Just one thing irks me...You mention that it stands an "equal chance of being allowed in as applying for a visa in advance". Should those chances technically be good, had I provided tons more documents?! Or would it still be bad because of all the things stated in the last few paragraphs of OP?

I'm sorry for all my questions, it's just I've never been in this situation before and the rest of Google hasn't been as useful as you have been in 2 posts by even a fraction.


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## Crawford (Jan 23, 2011)

While it is true that the OP's boyfriend had no need to apply for a visa to visit the UK, I can see why the general visitor's visa was refused and I think that trying to prove that a) he has enough money b) his girlfriend will support him etc etc is only going to strengthen the immigration officials response that: 

_I am not satisfied that you are genuinely seeking entry to the UK as a visitor and have sufficient economic and personal ties to the US which would prompt your timely departure from the UK at the end of your proposed visit_

Look at the facts: he is unemployed, she is unemployed, she is going to provide accommodation and lodgings while he is in the UK, although unemployed he is coming to the UK for *6 months (most employed people cannot afford to do that), he has no ties at all to the US, he has already spent over 3 months in the UK in the last 10 months, the OP have stated that he would be looking for work and if at all possible would change his status while in the UK.

I think providing more documents proving he could comfortably "live" in the UK only adds fuel to the fire and won't help an appeal.

I don't see how, without stronger ties to the US (a job, apartment etc), turning up at Heathrow for another 6 month stay, the immigration officials are not going to have the same view as the official who sent the refusal letter: "this guy has every reason to overstay in the UK".

He might stand a better chance of getting in if he plans a "genuine 2 to three week visit"*


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## 2farapart (Aug 18, 2011)

Hi Jake

Looking at the letter you were sent by UKBA, there was rather a good chance this could have happened without a visitor visa too (it would only have needed an Entry Clearance Officer to ask about where you're staying for all these same issues to be blown out of the water). There's likely no point in appealing because their grounds for refusal were actually well-founded - you had no provable ties to the US, you stated 'no income' yet your bank accounts were showing multiple, unexplained Paypal deposits, and Michelle is also not employed and so was in no _evidential_ position to sponsor you. If you also let slip that you'd be looking for work, that may have concerned them further (a visit visa is strictly for tourism). So, all in all, the UKBA will probably stand by their decision as it was correct at the time.

Before attempting further entry into the UK, you really, badly need to establish strong and provable ties in the US - clear reasons that you would definitely be returning. It could be a job, signing up to a course of study, renting a property on a longer-term lease maybe (and most likely it will take more than just one to be believable). It would be advisable also to have enough money to cover the living costs of every week of your stay in the UK (and be able to demonstrate where the money came from). 

There are no guarantees. As everyone else has said, a failed visa application (equally, a refused entry which could easily have happened instead) does add a black mark on future visits, but you're not alone in that and people with previous refusals have been able to make convincing applications later, so all is not lost. You have to build those evidential ties to the US (most important), and on any subsequent visit all you can do is be honest if questioned and be prepared with adequate (explainable) funds (remember: Paypal deposits are also income so declare it next time). As Crawford suggests, a shorter trip would be better - it's more convincingly a holiday, maybe with an itinerary for your visit (touristy things that you plan to do together) and evidence showing where you will be staying etc and that Michelle is able to assist with supporting you). Also, don't mention that you're looking for work! A visit visa is purely a tourist visa for people on holiday (and with no intention of staying). 

Whilst a black mark is not going to vanish overnight, if you make a successful entry into the UK for a short holiday and you return to the US in good time, then that increases your chances a little more for the next time. Unfortunately, it's all based on appearance rather than your genuine intention, and the appearance of your application was rather shady. I hope your next attempt is much more successful - just have your ties to the US in order first - and good luck!


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## Jake_ (Sep 6, 2012)

Thanks for the advice again, everyone. I will work on coming up with better ties that I can use to bring along with me so that I may convince anyone investigating me that I truly am what I make myself out to be.


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