# Retención IRPF Autónomos - 21% or 15%?



## fishwebby (Aug 11, 2010)

Hello,

I'm working as autónomo, and before summer I was issuing invoices with 15% "retención IRPF". However, I read that from September, that's gone up to 21% (along with IVA too, but I'm working as a teacher so I don't charge that).

So I issued an invoice with 21% IRPF, but they came back to me and said it was only 15%, and paid it with that much. They're adamant that it's 15%.

As I'm getting conflicting stories about how much to pay, can anyone confirm it for sure?

My main worry is hacienda though - I've now got some invoices from this month with 21% tax, and now this one with 15% (which I've already received the money for). As far as hacienda is concerned, if it is indeed 21%, can I go and pay the difference? It's not that I'm that eager to pay tax or anything, but I want to avoid surprises when I do my tax return in April.

Up to now I've managed to do my invoicing without paying a _gestor_...

Any help is greatly appreciated!


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## fishwebby (Aug 11, 2010)

Just been to hacienda (managed to find someone helpful and knowledgeable!). They've confirmed that it is indeed 21% IRPF retention now, and what I need to do with the company that has paid me too much is return the difference of 6% back to them. Now all I need to do is convince them of that...

Cheers
Dave


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## Campesina (Dec 17, 2011)

Try showing them this:

Agencia Tributaria - Retenciones a cuenta del IRPF


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## fishwebby (Aug 11, 2010)

Nice one - can't get more official than that... cheers!


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## Muddy (Jan 14, 2010)

fishwebby said:


> Just been to hacienda (managed to find someone helpful and knowledgeable!). They've confirmed that it is indeed 21% IRPF retention now, and what I need to do with the company that has paid me too much is return the difference of 6% back to them. Now all I need to do is convince them of that...
> 
> Cheers
> Dave


Glad you got it sorted and good to know it´s possible to get some things done without a gestor!
But did I read it wrong, it seems from what you said to me that they owe you the shortfall of 6% not the other way around if they insisted in paying at 15% and not 21% :confused2:
Apologies if I've mixed that up, wouldn't be the first time!


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## fishwebby (Aug 11, 2010)

No worries! Yeh, I owe them the 6%, and the invoice I sent them had 21% on it, so to be honest if they don't do anything it's their problem when it comes to hacienda.

I used to have a gestor, but I had a bad experience with them - they were expensive (and they raised their monthly fee in January without telling me - I would have appreciated being told at least) and didn't really do a great deal. Having said that though, I can only really do it myself now because I saw what they were doing, so basically without knowing it they taught me how to do it (which forms to fill in, when to do it etc.) so I could then get rid of them and save myself €70 + VAT a month! So all is lovely


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## goingtobcn (Sep 9, 2012)

Hi fishwebby,
I'm just in the process of setting myself up as autonomo, also to teach English. I have read about the IRPF, but not entirely sure what it is... I do have a gestor (meeting on Tues), so guess they can explain, but just saw this thread


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## fishwebby (Aug 11, 2010)

Hi goingtobcn,

it's not actually that complicated once you've worked it out (took me a while). IRPF is like income tax in the UK. For example:

You work for an academy but as an autónomo. They pay you €1000 a month let's say. You send them an invoice, broken down like this:

Subtotal: €1000
IVA: 0% (teaching is VAT exempt, but I always put it on the invoice anyway)
IRPF (21%): €210
Total: €790 (€1000 - €210)

So €790 is what you actually get at the end of the day. €210 is kept by the academy ("retención de IRPF").

Out of your €790 you have to pay €254 social security, but this comes out as a direct debit at the end of the month directly from your bank account (i.e. nothing to do with people you're invoicing). When you register as autónomo the social security department will set this up for you.

What happens with the IRPF on your invoice is that the company you work for pays it to hacienda for you, kind of like PAYE in the UK.

If you only work for academies then that's basically it, they keep the IRPF for you and pay it to hacienda on your behalf.

However, if you do some private classes, you issue an invoice but individuals don't do retención de IRPF, so you invoice them for the full amount (e.g. €20 for an hour's class). However, hacienda still want their share. So what you do every three months (in January, April, July and October, and you have 40 days to do it from the first of each of those months) is a "modelo 130". This is basically a form where you fill in all the money you've earned in the previous three months, the IRPF you've paid (the total amount retained if you've invoiced any companies) and if you owe any IRPF, you go and pay it. Now, as I've been exclusively working for companies (and therefore the IRPF is retained by the company), I've never done a "modelo 130" as the helpful chap in hacienda said I didn't need to in that case. It's only if you do lots of work for individuals that you need to go and do the form 130. If you do need to do that I'd suggest going to hacienda and asking them for help filling in the form, I've been quite lucky with them and they've always been really helpful.

Before September, IRPF was 15%. Now it's 21% until the end of next year, then it goes down to 19%. (not a great way to encourage people to be self-employed if you ask me, but then I don't have a vote here so not much I can do about it... I digress).

I think that's all there is to it - I hope that helps! Happy to try and answer any other questions if you have any. I would suggest clarifying all this with the gestor though, just to make sure.

Welcome to the wonderful (!) world of being autónomo!


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## goingtobcn (Sep 9, 2012)

fishwebby said:


> Hi goingtobcn,
> 
> it's not actually that complicated once you've worked it out (took me a while). IRPF is like income tax in the UK. For example:
> 
> ...


Thank you very much  Will clarify with the gestor - and of course let you know if they say anything different.

Mmm, not sure about it being wonderful  How long have you been doing it?


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## fishwebby (Aug 11, 2010)

Ah yes, please do let me know if they say anything different!

Have been autónomo on and off for about eighteen months now... I say on and off because in summer I "darme de baja" because I wasn't earning so I wanted to avoid paying the €254 social security. That's a silly way of doing it too if you ask me - a flat fee for social security regardless of what you earn... so to break even (i.e. earn nothing), you need to be earning €322 (you get paid €322, but 21% tax off that = €254) a month. So if you want to earn an amount smaller than that (which can happen if you're just getting started), you have to work at a loss! 

Good job we're in this country for reasons other than the tax system!


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

goingtobcn said:


> Thank you very much  Will clarify with the gestor - and of course let you know if they say anything different.
> 
> Mmm, not sure about it being wonderful  How long have you been doing it?


I'm happy to pay my gestor to do it all - it would cost me more every month in time than I pay him....... 

I can earn in an hour what I pay him a month


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## goingtobcn (Sep 9, 2012)

xabiachica said:


> I'm happy to pay my gestor to do it all - it would cost me more every month in time than I pay him.......
> 
> I can earn in an hour what I pay him a month


Knowing what your gestor charges, that's pretty good! I'm comparing it but I'm looking at mainly 1-1s at least initially, so slightly different.

fishwebby, don't know how old you are, but my gestor told me there's a 30% discount on SS payments if you're under 30. Not sure how much I'm going to make on this, at least initially, but like the flexibility and independence aspects


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

goingtobcn said:


> Knowing what your gestor charges, that's pretty good! I'm comparing it but I'm looking at mainly 1-1s at least initially, so slightly different.
> 
> fishwebby, don't know how old you are, but my gestor told me there's a 30% discount on SS payments if you're under 30. Not sure how much I'm going to make on this, at least initially, but like the flexibility and independence aspects


yes that's right - I think it's men under 30 & women under 35 :confused2:

for a bit under the first 3 years I think

I did mainly 1 to 1 at first - & still do about half my hours 1 to 1 or 1 to 2 - the rest I do in groups - much more fun, for me & the students, & certainly more lucrative - for all of us - they pay less an hour & I earn more


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## goingtobcn (Sep 9, 2012)

xabiachica said:


> yes that's right - I think it's men under 30 & women under 35 :confused2:
> 
> for a bit under the first 3 years I think
> 
> I did mainly 1 to 1 at first - & still do about half my hours 1 to 1 or 1 to 2 - the rest I do in groups - much more fun, for me & the students, & certainly more lucrative - for all of us - they pay less an hour & I earn more


Hmm, he told me it's 30% for 30 months and I'm female :confused2:

Yes, can see why groups are more lucrative 

There is a question for you in my autonomo thread when you get a chance


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

goingtobcn said:


> Hmm, he told me it's 30% for 30 months and I'm female :confused2:
> 
> Yes, can see why groups are more lucrative
> 
> There is a question for you in my autonomo thread when you get a chance


yes that's right - 30% discount for 30 months - I assume you're under 35


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## goingtobcn (Sep 9, 2012)

xabiachica said:


> yes that's right - 30% discount for 30 months - I assume you're under 35


Haha sorry I forgot the crucial part - he said 30% discount for under 30s for 30 months - too many 30s!!


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

goingtobcn said:


> Haha sorry I forgot the crucial part - he said 30% discount for under 30s for 30 months - too many 30s!!


And, as stated previously, that's 35 for women.

A friend of mine has just gone autonomo but because she's under 35, she only pays 175 euros.


She also mentioned that there are different scales for paying the "indemnity insurance" - anyone know more about this side of it?


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## goingtobcn (Sep 9, 2012)

snikpoh said:


> And, as stated previously, that's 35 for women.
> 
> A friend of mine has just gone autonomo but because she's under 35, she only pays 175 euros.
> 
> ...


That's what I was trying to say - I'm female and was told the discount is for under 30s.

No idea about indemnity insurance I'm afraid - what does your friend to?


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

goingtobcn said:


> That's what I was trying to say - I'm female and was told the discount is for under 30s.
> 
> No idea about indemnity insurance I'm afraid - what does your friend to?


Then I would change gestor/abogado 'cause their wrong. It's definitely 35!

She's a butcher with her own shop.


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## goingtobcn (Sep 9, 2012)

snikpoh said:


> Then I would change gestor/abogado 'cause their wrong. It's definitely 35!
> 
> She's a butcher with her own shop.


Yep, it is - just looked on Seguridad Social website. Got meeting with accountants on Tues but not going to not use them just because of that - will see what they're like in person.

Hope someone on here will have some info for your friend


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