# Considering Moving to London After College



## freedom160 (Mar 28, 2011)

Hello there, I am an 18 year old American thinking about a move to England after I receive my Bachelors in Secondary English Education. From what I've read, it would be difficult to get a visa for a teaching job in England, especially for my subject, since there isn't likely to be a shortage of UK citizens seeking posts as English teachers.

My eyes are sort of burning after reading through as much of the UK Visa information site as I could, so I was hoping someone could confirm what I've been reading about for the last few hours.

Could I complete my Bachelors here (likely at the University of Notre Dame with a study abroad to London) and then apply for Graduate studies at a school in the UK? That would mean I would apply for a Student Visa (Tier 4 Visa?). Assuming I'm accepted, I could then apply for a Post-Study Visa, right? 

Would that be easier than getting my Masters in the US and then trying to move?


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## nat21 (Oct 10, 2010)

If you university has a study abroad program in London, why not take advantage of it and decide on doing a semester or year in London? So that you can get the experience of living there. You can also apply for grad school in the UK and your school will help you to obtain your student visa (all I had to do was fill out the application online and pay for the visa then turn up for the appointment and show my acceptance letter from my school along with proof that I paid the fee and I got the visa within 30 minutes, granted that was in 2004). 

I head that you can work for a year in the UK after completing your studies, but not sure about that as it came into effect after I returned home. In order to work in the UK after graduation, you will need an employer to sponsor you and for them to do that, they will have to prove that no other EU national can do the job that they are sponsoring you for. To get sponsored, you will have to have some work experience under your belt. 

Also, moving to London is not always what it seems.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

freedom160 said:


> Hello there, I am an 18 year old American thinking about a move to England after I receive my Bachelors in Secondary English Education. From what I've read, it would be difficult to get a visa for a teaching job in England, especially for my subject, since there isn't likely to be a shortage of UK citizens seeking posts as English teachers.
> 
> My eyes are sort of burning after reading through as much of the UK Visa information site as I could, so I was hoping someone could confirm what I've been reading about for the last few hours.
> 
> ...


Just to confirm what you've read. Only Secondary Math (we call it Maths here) and Science teaching is shortage occupation for which residential labour test isn't required. Plus your US teaching qualification (license) isn't accepted here, so the only post you can get is as unqualified teacher. While there is still demand for English teachers in parts of the South East, esp London, schools are now looking for qualified teachers with UK experience, though some supply (substitute) teaching may be possible if you work through an agency such as Timeplan, who work with overseas qualified teachers. But getting a suitable visa will be difficult, because as an American you aren't eligible for 2-year Youth Mobility Scheme visa (formerly working holiday visa).

Post-study work visa is under review by the government and in future you need to be sponsored for a graduate-level job by a potential employer for Tier 2 General visa. With English teaching being a non-shortage occupation, you are likely to struggle.

You can study for Masters in UK, and a Tier 4 Adult Student visa may be possible if you get a place to study, and show ability to pay tuition (currently from around £12,000, likely to rise substatially next year 2012-13) and all your study and living costs. Prospect after getting your Masters is as described. So there is no real advantage compared to doing your Masters in US. 

If you just want to experience studying and living in UK, do your study abroad program. As I've said, your prospect of living and working in UK after your studies is limited, as the government is restricting student visas as a route leading to work and settlement.


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## modzy78 (Jan 15, 2010)

I have Pennsylvania teaching certification. Mine is Level 2 in Elementary, Secondary English, and Secondary Social Studies. I also have a Masters in Education and years of teaching experience in both Pennsylvania and Japan. That being said, I've been living in London since Novemember and have yet to even be called in for an interview for a teaching position. And I have lost count to the number of applications I've sent out! I am also not eligible for post-graduate teacher training over here because I already have overseas certification. The only way I can gain qualified teacher status is to find a school willing to hire an unqualified teacher and sponsor me for the Overseas Trained Teacher Programme. I cannot work on getting this status on my own- I MUST be sponsored. And I am on a spouse visa, which means I have full rights to work over here. I am actually in a much better position than you'd be, and it has been very frustrating.

I realize this might seem a bit gloom and doom, but I want you to know exactly what you'd be facing. You will not be able to get a teaching job with your qualifications at this time, and you might not be able to enroll in most of the teacher training programs. (I might be wrong about ones offered through universities.) Those suggesting that you study abroad as part of your graduate program are giving you the best possible option. A lot of schools will let you study over here while paying tuition to your home university. So you'd be able to apply your American student loans. If you just come over here, you won't be eligible for any student aide, and you'll get slammed on tuition rates. Think carefully about what you do, and good luck with whatever you decide!


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## freedom160 (Mar 28, 2011)

I really appreciate all of the helpful information, however doom and gloom it may be  I thought I might be getting ahead of myself, thinking about this move four years before I can actually start doing anything about it, but it would seem that such advance planning could be in my benefit. If only I'd started thinking about it last Fall while applying to colleges, I could have applied to a UK university.

Anyways, I suppose I could always double major in Math (I suppose I should start calling it Maths, right?) and English. If I understand correctly, securing a Maths position should be easier than a post as an English teacher. Maybe not easy, but at least that would qualify as a shortage occupation. Would a school be more likely to sponsor me in that case?

And after I obtain my Qualified Teaching Status through the Overseas Trained Teacher Program, I could seek a job teaching English?


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## modzy78 (Jan 15, 2010)

freedom160 said:


> I really appreciate all of the helpful information, however doom and gloom it may be  I thought I might be getting ahead of myself, thinking about this move four years before I can actually start doing anything about it, but it would seem that such advance planning could be in my benefit. If only I'd started thinking about it last Fall while applying to colleges, I could have applied to a UK university.
> 
> Anyways, I suppose I could always double major in Math (I suppose I should start calling it Maths, right?) and English. If I understand correctly, securing a Maths position should be easier than a post as an English teacher. Maybe not easy, but at least that would qualify as a shortage occupation. Would a school be more likely to sponsor me in that case?
> 
> And after I obtain my Qualified Teaching Status through the Overseas Trained Teacher Program, I could seek a job teaching English?


Going to a UK university would have been extremely expensive for you, and any teaching qualifications earned probably wouldn't be recognized in the States. So you could have been stuck in a situation where you couldn't get work anywhere. Choosing an American school seems the smartest choice. If I may ask, what school are you going to?

If you like math, definitely do a double major if possible. Talk to your advisor when scheduling to see if it's doable and what the time frame would be. You're probably looking at an extra year or two to make that happen, but it might be worth it. Even if you decide to stay in the States, there seems to be less competition for math positions than English ones. And having dual certification will make you a more attractive candidate, especially at a smaller school. Also, while maths is a shortage area, there is massive recruiting going on through post-graduate teacher training programmes. That means that people who have maths degrees are getting offers for paid on the job training or 1 year study programmes that are paid for. And the competition is extremely high with the current economy. So it is possible that the shortage won't be as great by the time you finish school. Or if could be higher if the economy picks up enough to make private sector jobs more attractive again. 

I really can't say if a school will be more likely to sponsor you with math certification. Most schools will ask you on the application if you have the right to work in the UK, and some require your National Insurance number as proof. I'd say to go for it if an application asks if you'd need sponsored to work. They might give you a chance if you are the best candidate. Just be aware that it will likely be difficult at best for you. But with that being said, you've got at least 4 years, so things could change by then!

Lastly, I think you'd be able to teach in both areas once you achieve qualified status, but I can't say for certain. Even if you can't initially, you could ask your school if they would let you teach an English class or 2 to gain that qualification. Many schools seem to like it if you can teach more than one subject. If you decide not to go the math route, think about minoring and getting certfied in drama and/or media studies to be more versatile. I've seen schools that would like English teachers that can cover those areas.


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## freedom160 (Mar 28, 2011)

Thanks, modzy. You've been incredibly helpful.

I'll be going to the University of Notre Dame (just got my acceptance letter yesterday!). I've looked up the alumni associations in the UK and there seem to be a good number of ND grads over there; maybe some crafty networking could help me find a job once overseas.

I'll definitely be talking to my advisor about getting certified in Maths; I'll be starting with almost a semesters worth of credits thanks to AP courses, so the added load for a double major shouldn't add too much time on to my studies.

Is there anything else I could do to make moving and working a little less difficult? I still have college to get through first, of course, so I'm sure my fickle young mind could change; at this point, however, I'm pretty sure I'll be headed to the UK for some period of time (whether it's short term or long term is what I'm trying to figure out at this point)

Also, what is teaching like over there? I realize you haven't secured a position yet (those schools don't know what they're missing; you've managed to teach me quite a bit in just two short posts--I can only imagine your teaching skills in the classroom), but do you have an overall idea of how teachers are regarded, what kind of benefits they receive, etc.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

freedom160 said:


> Also, what is teaching like over there? I realize you haven't secured a position yet (those schools don't know what they're missing; you've managed to teach me quite a bit in just two short posts--I can only imagine your teaching skills in the classroom), but do you have an overall idea of how teachers are regarded, what kind of benefits they receive, etc.


Teaching as a whole is a demoralised profession. Many start their training with high hopes and idealism, which are soon shattered when they realise the reality of teaching in most state schools. There are all sorts of government interference, their policies change with regularity and teachers, deprived of using their initiatives, become guinea pigs of politically-motivated experiments, which mainly fail to deliver as promised. Pupil behaviour in many school is bad and teachers spend a lot of time in crowd control and motivating unwilling learners, filling forms and in paperwork, parents are either uninterseted in education or pushy and demanding. 

Teacher's social standing is low, pay isn't bad but teaching jobs are hard to find in most areas and subjects, and there are a lot of unemployed teachers eking out a living on unreliable supply (substitute) teaching, tutoring or non-teaching work. 

Of course there are exceptions, like schools that are models of their kind with keen and devoted workforce and pupils who are a joy to teach, but they are few and far between. You often get that in independent (private, fee-paying) schools, but only a small minority of children are educated privately, and since fees are high, most children are from an affluent background.


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## freedom160 (Mar 28, 2011)

In other words, things aren't so different for the hard-working teachers in the UK. Governement interference, uncooperative students, and low social standing; sounds just like the US to me.


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## modzy78 (Jan 15, 2010)

Glad that I can help!
You might want to check out this site: Locations - Notre Dame Offices of International Studies It's about Notre Dame's international programs. There are locations in the UK and many other countries. It would be a great thing for you to look into so you could come over for at least a term!


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