# Power outages in SA?



## Guest (Apr 24, 2008)

I understand that power is planned to be out most days, mid day. No power at all? How does this work? How do you keep food in the refrigerator from going bad? And what about all those flashing digital clocks... 

Do people have backup gas generators hooked up for their homes?


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## Maverick (Apr 1, 2008)

Power outages approx 1 - 2 times a week for about a 2 and a half hour period.

Food in fridge wont go bad for power being off for only 2 and a half hours.

Reset flashing clocks every time. Really frustrating.

Some people have diesel backup generators - some do not.

Times vary from area to area on a rotation basis. This month my outage is from about 1300-1530 but from next month it could be from 0800-1030 or 1700-2030 etc. 

This might have to go on for the next 5 years until more power plants are built as they just cant keep up with the demand. Hopefully it wont be that long. It disrupts business service / traffic lights which in turn causes chaos traffic jams / trying to cook dinner at night etc.... really really poor show!


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## synthia (Apr 18, 2007)

My gosh, how did this happen? Is it failure to plan? People resisting all kinds of power plants (no one wants new dams, coal fired plants, oil fired plants, or nuclear plants, with leaves them with impractical options)? Or has demand grown so much?

I thought, a long time ago when I lived there, that they were going to do several new nuclear plants. What happened?


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## BARBS1 (Mar 31, 2008)

You're right - it was major failure to plan. Warnings were given years ago to the suppliers and nought was done about it.....
More frustrating than the power outages at home are the absence of traffic lights..... causes a lot of traffic jams and you just have to be so careful coz not everyone obeys the rule of 'first at the light - first to go'.
Fine for housewives like me, we cook during the day if we are expecting our power cut at night, most others just find a take-away (you might have to go a few suburbs further to find one that's not in the dark!).
Engineers from France etc have been pulled into the country to assess and hopefully look into rectifying the problem in the years to come. But rest assured - this will not be done within 5 years. Sub-stations are starting to blow up, apparently because of being switched on and off continuously. 
Businesses are suffering and thus losing money, causing an outcry. 
That's another reason why people are leaving this country in droves - bad Govt planning..... in more ways than one.


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## Daxk (Jan 20, 2008)

The Govt wanted to bring other Power Production players in,which did'nt happen as the Internationals, quite rightly, were'nt prepared to invest where the buyer set the price.
Eskom,faced with the threat of competition,stopped expansion.
They also were the foremost facilitator of AA which drove huge amounts of skill overseas( remember the coloured Engineer who took Eskom to Court and lost because he was'nt black enough??)
Lack of skills and management meant maintenance fell behind, The coal Transporting Companies werent disadvantaged enough so they got fired, new BEE Companies were given the contracts at Rates per ton that were impossible to make any real profit from so the BEE Coal transporting Companies did'nt maintain either their trucks or the roads so in January this year Eskom was down to virtually no coal and then had major System failures due to Lack of maintenance.
As to maverick's comment, Domestic consumption only consumes 30% of Eskoms production.
The ANC were warned that the Government had to spend on infrastructure, they just figured we could run another extension cord to a lamp post.
Eskom also supplies virtually all of Zimbabwe's power,for which we have'nt been paid in 10 years.
The problem is exponential,the pumps at the sewerage works that drive the filtration process are electric,at the main one in Gauteng there are 395 pumps and only 30 generators for emergencies,The pumps at all Stations have not had any maintenance schedule adhered to in 7 years, if the Pumps break down or do not pump then the Drinking water system is breached with raw sewage. to date 80 children have already died in the Eastern Cape,
however, we are told there is no problem.
Maverick, if every household in SA was electrified, consumption would only increase by 11% of Eskoms Production.
The other problem is that with the power out, you have no electric fences or gates.


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## synthia (Apr 18, 2007)

DaxK - I think Maverick was talking about the day to day effect of the outages on on his life, not implying that domestic usage was the cause of the problems.

Is there any talk of mini-plants? While they are still big, some countries have addressed problems by using new mini-plant (comparatively mini) because they can be brought on line much quicker.


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## Daxk (Jan 20, 2008)

Yes, Synthia, but thats a short term solution,they are also puting up Wind farms, trying to recommission old Coal Fired Power plants,,
They've contracted a French Company to build but it takes 5 years to Build enough Power plants.
Apart from anything else, there is a worldwide shortage of Stainless Steel and Concrete.
South Africa have begged, borrowed and put prisons,Hospital and Schools construction on hold so they can have the PR from a couple of Soccer games in 2010.They are way over their existing allocations of SS and Industrial Concrete.


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## Maverick (Apr 1, 2008)

yeah i was just mentioning how the load shedding is affecting me and the average other person living in SA


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## Daxk (Jan 20, 2008)

Aaah ok, Maverick, thought your comment that it was because of Demand increasing as per the spin Alec Irwin tried to put on it,"We have a problem because we have been so succesful" was what you believed.

my apologies


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## jmspringbok (Oct 24, 2007)

We were just in the Cape Town area for 3 weeks and the electricity was out once for an hour or so. Cape Town is so windy and sunny they should take advantage of it.


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## Big Pete (Aug 7, 2007)

jmspringbok said:


> We were just in the Cape Town area for 3 weeks and the electricity was out once for an hour or so. Cape Town is so windy and sunny they should take advantage of it.


I agree get the suncream out and get a tan while its off  good thinking jmspringbok


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## bovinerebel (Jul 8, 2008)

synthia said:


> My gosh, how did this happen? Is it failure to plan? People resisting all kinds of power plants (no one wants new dams, coal fired plants, oil fired plants, or nuclear plants, with leaves them with impractical options)? Or has demand grown so much?
> 
> I thought, a long time ago when I lived there, that they were going to do several new nuclear plants. What happened?


The South African economy and industry have been growing at such a high rate , it would have taken blind opptimism to ever predict it. All the power shortages indicate is that South African has a healthy growing economy and cheap electricity(the cheapest in the world) so we don't have a culture of using is sparingly. It's shows you how rational some people are when they get negative about cheap electricity and a fast growing economy. Hardly a reason to get depressed.


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## Daxk (Jan 20, 2008)

Bovinerebel, you are being sarcastic I hope.


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## bovinerebel (Jul 8, 2008)

Daxk said:


> Bovinerebel, you are being sarcastic I hope.


Not even slightly. Only South Africa could take a few power shortages , that have since been brought down to a manageable level after the initial mess ups , to mean armageddon is nigh. Please. We DO have the cheapest power in the world. Our economy has grown at record levels. We have given close to 10 million people electricity in 14 years. Which of the 3 is a bad thing that deserves people to slit their wrists about ? So we have a power shortage every few weeks for an hour or so for the short term....boo freaking hoo ! If this is all we have to complain about then we're doing pretty damn well.


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## Daxk (Jan 20, 2008)

Happy to hear its sorted then, so Billiton and Rio can go ahead with their plans, Eskom have obviously lifted their emabrgo on new projects and development.
I assume that the proposed plant at C,st Francis and Supertubes wont be necessary then?


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## bovinerebel (Jul 8, 2008)

Daxk said:


> Happy to hear its sorted then, so Billiton and Rio can go ahead with their plans, Eskom have obviously lifted their emabrgo on new projects and development.
> I assume that the proposed plant at C,st Francis and Supertubes wont be necessary then?



It's a non issue. Boring in fact. Honestly do you really think sorting out power isn't something that we'll easily manage ? Easily ! Please. With all the money to be made ? That's not just negative , that's bordering on dellusional.


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## Daxk (Jan 20, 2008)

Great! so when will SA be at the minimum reserve of 12%??
Medupwe will only come on stream fully in 2015, so that is spoken for

The final design for the pebble bed reactor is'nt complete after 4 years of design so they cant do a environmental impact till they have a design that works.
Why are the Govt economist predicting 2.1% growth and you say its 4.8%?

Very happy to hear my favourite waves wont be affected.


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## bovinerebel (Jul 8, 2008)

Daxk said:


> Great! so when will SA be at the minimum reserve of 12%??
> Medupwe will only come on stream fully in 2015, so that is spoken for
> 
> The final design for the pebble bed reactor is'nt complete after 4 years of design so they cant do a environmental impact till they have a design that works.
> ...


Someone hand him a tissue. Again I ask you , do you really think that the simple matter of providing power is really something we won't easily rectify ? 

If it's not simple , then we should tolerate some inconveniences in the short term. If it is simple , then why do you think it won't be done ?

You see...you're not being rational. You're emotive and it clouds your judgement. It's a non issue.


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## bovinerebel (Jul 8, 2008)

Daxk said:


> Great! so when will SA be at the minimum reserve of 12%??
> Medupwe will only come on stream fully in 2015, so that is spoken for
> 
> The final design for the pebble bed reactor is'nt complete after 4 years of design so they cant do a environmental impact till they have a design that works.
> ...


Growth has been closes to 6 % for the past few years in real terms. The economy is following the world trend of slowing down as we come out of the bull cycle. Given the highly inflated oil price it would be irresponsible to not alter predictions. In South korea I just read they tempered their predictions from 4% to 2% growth based on this alone. When oil normalises growth will be back to around 4% which on the global scale is fantastic right now.


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## Daxk (Jan 20, 2008)

Again, such good news!!
You really are a joy!
as its so simple to rectify and if every household /shack in SA was electrified it would account for 6% of Eskoms ability provision.I repeat, has Eskom lifted its moratorium on new Plant and new Housing estates?Anything that would require more electricity than is currently being produced?


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## bovinerebel (Jul 8, 2008)

Daxk said:


> Again, such good news!!
> You really are a joy!
> as its so simple to rectify and if every household /shack in SA was electrified it would account for 6% of Eskoms ability provision.I repeat, has Eskom lifted its moratorium on new Plant and new Housing estates?Anything that would require more electricity than is currently being produced?


You know that "negative defeatist" is a euphamism for "loser" right ?

Only the dull witted and unimaginative see problems rather than solutions. The electricity issue in South Africa has pretty much already been sorted out. All we , with the cheapest power in the world needed to do was use 5% less power. Turn off for 1 hour a day. But did we ? Oh no ! ****** was never going to sacrifice anything for the good of the country. so they turn it of for us 1 hour every 2 weeks while they put the necessary measures in place. Is it really reason to slit our wrists ? Grow up.


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## Daxk (Jan 20, 2008)

You are abslutely amazing.


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## Daxk (Jan 20, 2008)

See the 200 posts in 10 minutes has stopped, is it a power failure?


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## bovinerebel (Jul 8, 2008)

Daxk said:


> See the 200 posts in 10 minutes has stopped, is it a power failure?



I'm in Korea. It was 5am in the morning. Sometimes I sleep. I'm wierd that way.


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## Daxk (Jan 20, 2008)

Not in Port Elizabeth? Shees,astral travel has progressed.


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## bovinerebel (Jul 8, 2008)

Daxk said:


> Not in Port Elizabeth? Shees,astral travel has progressed.


Do I lose my home and citizenship when I leave the country for a short trip ? You do think in black and whites don't you ? Someone introduce this kid to the box of 6 crayolas already !


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## Daxk (Jan 20, 2008)

No, its your parents home.so you dont lose it.


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## Daxk (Jan 20, 2008)

Kiddo, you are trying to play grownup.
not yet.
the nice thing I remember about my youth was I had no responsibility.
you are talking BS to people who are going to invest their lives and savings in SA.
95% of the time I agree they will be fine.
its being in the other 5% that stinks.
And you are saying that 5% does'nt exist.


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## bovinerebel (Jul 8, 2008)

Daxk said:


> Kiddo, you are trying to play grownup.
> not yet.
> the nice thing I remember about my youth was I had no responsibility.
> you are talking BS to people who are going to invest their lives and savings in SA.
> ...


Oh please. People affected by crime exist in every country in the world. It's not 5% of middle classed south africans..that's crazy. You have a slightly higher statisitically chance of any crime happening to you in south africa than for example the unites states as a middle classed person (in some cases much lower), but in reality so slightly it's insignificant. Would you tell people not to go live in the united states because they have 30 murders per 100 000 as opposed to south africa with 40 per hundred thousand ? (much less if you take a sample of middle classes people) ? That's not rational !!!!!

Anyway..stick to the topic...we already have the crime forum. This is about the non issue of electricity in south africa that everyone makes a needless fuss about.


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## Daxk (Jan 20, 2008)

With pleasure.
So the management of Eskom have got it wrong.
There is'nt a problem.


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## bovinerebel (Jul 8, 2008)

Daxk said:


> With pleasure.
> So the management of Eskom have got it wrong.
> There is'nt a problem.



There is a small but managable problem. 

Look. My girlfriend is Korean. I'm trying to get her to come live in South Africa. We've been over here the last few months and she reads about power shortages and how we're all not going to have power and be using candles ...oh the drama ..the drama ! Already she used to be convinced we're going to be murdered and raped the moment we get off the plane until she actually came over and saw how nice it was, now I've got to deal with this stupidity too. 

I phone home and I'm told it's been going out once every few weeks for an hour or so. I tell her not to worry , it's just those same people who told you it was dangerous who are having a fit again. She rolls her eyes and shakes her head. "You're country is crazy! " she says.

Do you admit that there's a slight difference between a crisis on the scale of armageddon and let's say ...a minor inconvenience ? And if you agree , could you please explain it to other white south africans ?


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## Daxk (Jan 20, 2008)

bovinerebel said:


> There is a small but managable problem.
> 
> 
> Do you admit that there's a slight difference between a crisis on the scale of armageddon and let's say ...a minor inconvenience ? And if you agree , could you please explain it to other white south africans ?


as all Domestic consumption accounts for a small percentage of total usage, that is a manageable inconvenience.
Why dont you ask the mines and major industrial users if its on the scale of Armageddon if more of Eskoms equipment breaks?


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## Unseer (Jul 8, 2008)

I think the biggest advantage South Africans have on the whole is their dedication to continue to build on current successes and fix the things that need fixing. We'll fix the power issues, they're building new nuclear power stations and it looks like we'll have enough power between now and then. The smart folks doing all the analysis are making the right noises.

It's always good to look at the past and benchmark on the here and now but equally it's good to take those benchmarks and plan ahead. The power problem was as a result of those plans being put on hold to reduce the cost of power during the first few years of the ANC government. Unfortunately we didn't catch it in time and the short term consequence effected many businesses country wide. The mines and large manufacturers took a helluva beating and the consequential effect on their employees, their customers and suppliers and ultimately the economy as a whole was certainly not good but we've just had the JSE break it's previous record high.

SA is not nirvana, it's not perfect yet those who were born and/or grew up there love it more than anything else. I'm going to make an assumption here and say that this is the reason we're even on this forum in the first place: Passion for SA.


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## Fieldservice1 (Jul 11, 2008)

Greetings, In the situation where businesses are consistently interrupted with power outages impacting their operations and production. My question would be what companies work with those of us who are experts in the field of electrical power generation and emergency power systems? I am interested to see how serious the market is for my skill set so please advise. 

Thank you


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## bovinerebel (Jul 8, 2008)

Fieldservice1 said:


> Greetings, In the situation where businesses are consistently interrupted with power outages impacting their operations and production. My question would be what companies work with those of us who are experts in the field of electrical power generation and emergency power systems? I am interested to see how serious the market is for my skill set so please advise.
> 
> Thank you



They are very serious. There's a skills recruitment drive by the government , but the positions are being snapped up pretty fast. South Africa is a pretty amazing place to live after all and offers a highly desirable standard of living.


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## Daxk (Jan 20, 2008)

bovinerebel said:


> It's a non issue. Boring in fact. Honestly do you really think sorting out power isn't something that we'll easily manage ? Easily ! Please. With all the money to be made ? That's not just negative , that's bordering on dellusional.


I see How they sorted it out, Now who's going to pay for it?

"Zulu conceded that Eskom had burnt 30 times more diesel than usual - spending R2-billion on the fuel in the year to March, up from just R23-million in the previous year - because it had had to use open cycle gas turbines (OCGTs) as much as 50 percent of the time in some months.

OCGTs, which consume huge amounts of diesel and are normally only used to deal with peak demand, are 30-times more costly than coal-fired power stations."


Now if you take a motorcar that is designed to work for short periods of time and then shove it onto a racetrack for an endurance Race, You tend to have Mechanical breakdowns.


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