# Is it worth it?



## topoftheboard (Mar 17, 2013)

Hello everyone,

I have been thinking about moving to Dubai for adventure and monetary gain but have a lot of questions. So I will try to explain the situation and would appreciate any advice/guidance.

I am a 23 year single male living in Ottawa, Canada and am a Canadian citizen. I am currently the internet sales manager at a large new car dealership and am compensated on commission only and also drive a high-end suv for free as my company vehicle. I have received a national award from Chrysler for my sales performance and came in second place in the Ottawa area in terms of retail units sold. I am treated very well by my Employer and enjoy a comfortable lifestyle. In 2012 I earned $93,000 CAD/USD which in Canada is considered a high income. I have been promoted to finance manager and will begin earning approximately $130,000-$150,000 per year in about 6 months.


In Canada we have very high income taxes (40% of my income) and pay taxes on anything and everything. A gentlemen who lived in Kuwait for 10 years just started working for us as a salesperson and explained to me that if I moved to Dubai or Kuwait that I would be wealthy relatively soon. He had worked for Porsche those 10 years in Kuwait and told me that he has not seen anybody with my skill set over there and that Im wasting my time here. My questions are as follows.

1) How much truth is there to what he is actually saying?

2) Would I be able to make substantially more in Dubai than here in Canada?

3) I enjoyed the thought of having a maid and access to a driver. How realistic or financially feasable is this?

4) His opinion of Kuwait was that it is boring? Would Dubai be boring compared to the lifestyle in the western world?

5) what would you do in my position?




Thanks and I apologize for the long post.


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## Chocoholic (Oct 29, 2012)

To be perfectly honest, it's all relative. Whilst the UAE might be advertised as 'tax free', there are lots of hidden costs, that are pretty much just taxes. Plus accommodation can be very expensive. There are not many 'westerners' working as sales people in your industry here and I doubt they'd earn a huge amount in commission.

How much you'd earn and save, would depend on what kind of lifestyle you want to live. Dubai is like a huge candy shop for many people, who spend their lives going out and about and splashing the cash.


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## Mr Rossi (May 16, 2009)

Went to the doctor yesterday. Basically an examination, "Nothing to worry about, take some of these and if it doesn't get better, come back" cost me 200 USD. Sometimes taxes aren't so bad.

If you're doing well, treated well and have career progression in Canada, there's little here for you beyond the weather. Also, your skill set will suffer due to the practices here. Many people (including myself) see the bench mark here and think kerching - then you get sucked into the machine and are constantly dumbing down rather than cleaning up. At your age it could potentially be career suicide, as you'll loose track of developments back home.


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## topoftheboard (Mar 17, 2013)

I felt the same thing after reading my post but did mot mean for it to come out that way. I just wanted to give people an accurate perspective. I am actually a very humble guy.


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## Taunted (Mar 16, 2013)

topoftheboard said:


> I felt the same thing after reading my post but did mot mean for it to come out that way. I just wanted to give people an accurate perspective. I am actually a very humble guy.


I know, here's a job for you.

Maserati


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## sammylou (Oct 29, 2012)

my impression is that service/sales personnel are not treated as well over here and turnover is much greater. being from ontario i feel your pain over the taxes we pay but factor in the costs of starting over, much higher rents, you may very likely not be able to attain a position making the same amount of money. and while there are no taxes, as one poster mentioned, there are fees for everything.

so i would suggest you stay put as it sounds like you are in a very rare position - being valued and rewarded by a company that appreciates you. so unless your current employer is offering you a position over here that guarantees you a similar salary etc. i would see the move as risky.

on the flip side, maybe that is something you are looking for? if you are risk averse do not come over without a job already.

and wealthy is a very relative term.


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## s&s (Apr 9, 2012)

If I was you, I would not make the move.
Your hours would be long and salary less than desirable. 

Give it a miss. You seem to be doing so well in Canada. Seize the opportunities there.


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## rsinner (Feb 3, 2009)

A user Bigjimbo on the forum is in the same industry as you - maybe you can search for him and seek his perspective?

Whatever you do, DO NOT come over for a commission only job given the high costs here. As a 23 year old I really doubt that you will get a 130K USD salary here in the sales industry, but I hope I am wrong.


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## Canuck_Sens (Nov 16, 2010)

topoftheboard said:


> In Canada we have very high income taxes (40% of my income) and pay taxes on anything and everything. ,,, and told me that he has not seen anybody with my skill set
> 
> 1) How much truth is there to what he is actually saying?


As a Sales guy do you really believe that there is no person like you here? That's BULL. There are great sales people everywhere. If you know how to connect to your customers you are good to go and you know it.



topoftheboard said:


> 2) Would I be able to make substantially more in Dubai than here in Canada?


The only difference is that there is no income tax in the UAE. So you will save on income tax. If your motivation is money maybe. The culture is a bit different here. The car business is dominated by families so...



topoftheboard said:


> 3) I enjoyed the thought of having a maid and access to a driver. How realistic or financially feasable is this?


This is a very shallow thought from your end. You would like to move because you like the idea of having a maid and access to a driver ? you are 23 right....

why dont you move to the US and there you can have a maid (probably an illegal immigrant) and a driver too If this is your motivation. 



topoftheboard said:


> 4) His opinion of Kuwait was that it is boring? Would Dubai be boring compared to the lifestyle in the western world?


Define what boring is to you and what kind of life style are you seeking? Western life style greatly varies mostly because we have freedom to choose what we want to do for ourselves.



topoftheboard said:


> 5) what would you do in my position?


It is great that you are making a good income in Canada for someone in your age and you should feel proud of your achievements. I am actually very proud to have read your post and know about your success in Ottawa. 

I hope by mid April that you get me one 200 Convertible for half price when I land there (for rental) LOL. If you can have it delivered on Welling Street I will be very grateful !!! Wellington is on the parliament street just to let you know!!!!

Honestly, Why don't you invest more in yourself and start saving for retirement? If you keep performing like this you will have a bright future ahead as Executive Sales Director or CFO ?

well I am a bit disappointed because you seem a bit immature. You have not figured that the car businesses in the UAE and in the region are family business oriented. There is not a real competition if you think about it. Your chances of success diminishes because of the market structure and the culture in this region.

You can always take the risk but you gotta do your homework first. You can ask your co-worker from Kuwait he will confirm what I said.


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## TallyHo (Aug 21, 2011)

Hold on, you're being a bit harsh. 

I have to admit having a maid/cleaner was one of the things I thought about before moving to Dubai if only because not having to clean or iron is decidedly a perk that makes life easier, not because I wanted to lord over someone.

Why do you assume the OP would have any idea about the car business structure in the Middle East. He's currently doing his research by asking us questions. 



Canuck_Sens said:


> This is a very shallow thought from your end. You would like to move because you like the idea of having a maid and access to a driver ? you are 23 right....
> 
> why dont you move to the US and there you can have a maid (probably an illegal immigrant) and a driver too If this is your motivation.
> 
> ...


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## Canuck_Sens (Nov 16, 2010)

TallyHo said:


> Hold on, you're being a bit harsh. Why do you assume the OP would have any idea about the car business structure in the Middle East. He's currently doing his research by asking us questions.


 If you are planning to change jobs or open a business in a different country you should do research about your area of expertise. He could have easily contacted Chrysler UAE and had a chat about the market. There are several ways to get info from the source. 

A simple call to Chrysler head quarters could have helped also.

so yes, I assume the OP would have that idea upfront.


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## zed_kid (Sep 25, 2012)

Canuck_Sens said:


> well I am a bit disappointed because you seem a bit immature. You have not figured that the car businesses in the UAE and in the region are family business oriented. There is not a real competition if you think about it. Your chances of success diminishes because of the market structure and the culture in this region.
> 
> You can always take the risk but you gotta do your homework first. You can ask your co-worker from Kuwait he will confirm what I said.


wow thanks for the lecture, mum

To the OP. save some money, don’t burn any bridges back home, come here, check it out if you like it a 60k usd pa tax free job is not hard to land for a westerner.


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## pamela0810 (Apr 5, 2010)

Canuck_Sens said:


> If you are planning to change jobs or open a business in a different country you should do research about your area of expertise. He could have easily contacted Chrysler UAE and had a chat about the market. There are several ways to get info from the source.
> 
> A simple call to Chrysler head quarters could have helped also.
> 
> so yes, I assume the OP would have that idea upfront.


I work for one of the most multinational companies in the world and have a great relationship with many of my counterparts in other regions. I would still not just pick up the phone and say "Hey guess what, I'm thinking about moving to your country and looking for a job, so could you give me some information about the market?" That'll potentially put you at risk with your supervisor as well as HR because a lot of red flags will be raised.

The Chrysler HQ is in Michigan. I don't know how calling Michigan to find out about the general life in the UAE will help the OP.

He wants to know about the lifestyle in the UAE more than what jobs are available. Chrysler is not the only automotive company in this country and by posting a query on the forum, he's getting a diverse response, not just a biased opinion from his colleagues about what life is like with Chrysler UAE.

@OP: You seem to be doing very well in Canada. If you're happy, don't move here just for the sake of making a few quick bucks. I said this to another poster this morning, life in Dubai can be really hard and the glitz and glamour applies more to the tourists than the minions. Good luck with what you're doing and I wish you more success in the future in your Home, not as an expat


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## topoftheboard (Mar 17, 2013)

Thank you to all of those who responded. Car dealerships in Canada and the US are also owned by families, in fact the three largest automotive groups in Ottawa are family owned. It is illegal for an auto manufacturer to sell directly to the consumer so no dealership is corporate owned. From what I understand the way people handle their finances in Dubai is very different than here in Canada. In today's market most people finance their vehicles on 96 month terms and usually have negative equity on the vehicle they are trading in. My colleague had explained to me that he was shocked/saddened to see that as these were very unwise financial decisions caused by people wanting to have a vehicle that they couldnt afford. He explained to me that in Kuwait most of the transactions he did were not financed and many times somebody would come in and buy their wife and children vehicles and just pay cash. 

1) Do the people in Dubai just handle their finances better or is it that they make much more money? 

2) One of the main reasons he moved from Kuwait is because he felt that he was a second class citizen as he wasn't allowed to own a home despite being born there, among other things. Do those of you in Dubai feel like this as well?

3) My goal is to advance my career, save a lot of money, explore the region, and to meet a lot of good people by moving to Dubai. Does this sound realistc?

Thanks again.


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## Mr Rossi (May 16, 2009)

Kuwait is very different country from Dubai in the UAE. Don't make assumptions that Dubai will be the same. For one, few westerners will be buying cars in cash outright. The Arabs that do won't buy from you on the sales floor. This is why the better garages employ a person of each nationality but if you are selling a brand that isn't popular with your peer group then you have a struggle on your hands . 

Also, don't assume that all westerners here earn serious money. There are plenty, including myself, who live as they did back home - getting by, paying bills, a beer on payday and beans on toast at the end of the month. Granted, I'm not sharing a studio with 12 people or giving missed calls to save 5 fils phone credit but our 2nd car is 10 year old Ford and we won't be renewing either for a few years yet.

Finally, I know one garage that pays their commission quarterly, not monthly. If you don't hit your targets for the quarter then you don't get paid. I don't know about you but I couldn't work for 3 months for free.


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## s&s (Apr 9, 2012)

topoftheboard said:


> Thank you to all of those who responded. Car dealerships in Canada and the US are also owned by families, in fact the three largest automotive groups in Ottawa are family owned. It is illegal for an auto manufacturer to sell directly to the consumer so no dealership is corporate owned. From what I understand the way people handle their finances in Dubai is very different than here in Canada. In today's market most people finance their vehicles on 96 month terms and usually have negative equity on the vehicle they are trading in. My colleague had explained to me that he was shocked/saddened to see that as these were very unwise financial decisions caused by people wanting to have a vehicle that they couldnt afford. He explained to me that in Kuwait most of the transactions he did were not financed and many times somebody would come in and buy their wife and children vehicles and just pay cash.
> 
> 1) Do the people in Dubai just handle their finances better or is it that they make much more money?
> 
> ...



Hi

There are many people with much debt in Dubai. While some are cash clients, many finance vehicles.

As an expat in Dubai you will always feel and be treated as a second class citizen. You are not considered equal by the local people and don't have many rights.

I'm not sure if your career will advance over here, that's something you will need to look into. Apply for jobs, see what the benefits are and weigh up your options. Make sure you get all your conditions stipulated in the contract. Dubai is full of malicious and dishonest employers. They will screw you over in a heartbeat, regardless of nationality and experience.

It is a great place to travel from in terms of geographical location.

The grass is not always greener on the other side. Having said that, sometimes people feel the need to go see that for themselves. 

Good luck with your decision. Take time to make it.


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## Canuck_Sens (Nov 16, 2010)

topoftheboard said:


> 1) Do the people in Dubai just handle their finances better or is it that they make much more money?


 It is still a cash driven society . There is no credit score system here. You don't get better rates for having a good credit score because this system does not exist yet. And the finances follow the Sharia principles that you should get acquainted here. 

In general the rates are higher than north america when you convert the profit rate to a reduce balance rate.



topoftheboard said:


> 2) One of the main reasons he moved from Kuwait is because he felt that he was a second class citizen as he wasn't allowed to own a home despite being born there, among other things. Do those of you in Dubai feel like this as well?


Your colleague is right to a certain extent. The laws are applied differently if you are a local. I fel that way. A local vs an expat would inevitably and most likely yield in favor of the local. In that sense I agree that we are treated as 2nd class citizens. Other reason is that you are not allowed to become a citizen. If you spend much of your life time in a country that you like and you have no possibility to become a citizen well that would drive people sad. It is like living in Canada for your life and you are not Canadian ? 



topoftheboard said:


> 3) My goal is to advance my career, save a lot of money, explore the region, and to meet a lot of good people by moving to Dubai. Does this sound realistic?Thanks again.


 Ok, I am going to tell you what I think. You are a fair young man full of dreams and you are ambitious, BUT you live in a country today that is faring much better than the rest of the G8 (USA, UK, Japan, France, Germany, Italy, Russia and Canada).

The Canadian Economy has not only rebounded but it is faring a strong internal demand. Canada has already recovered all the jobs that were lost during the crisis. 

I can understand people from the other countries trying as there is a huge unemployment rate where they are. I think Dubai is for those with a little more experience and you are young. I think that as being a young man you could invest more in yourself. The quality of education you have there is superior than here hands down and you can afford it or deduce from your income tax.

Not to mention that you have more opportunities in North America than here. The biggest market is north america mainly US.

Sure you can come, but I would recommend coming here later. Honestly are you really willing to throw away what you have now for the UAE ? 

If I were in your shoes, I would not. Not now anyways


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## Guest (Mar 18, 2013)

People are being nice, giving you logical reasons etc, but my reaction was `Are you frikking out of your mind?` 

If the driver and maid are the problems, I am quite sure you can afford them in Canada too with a 150K wage at 23 years old + single. I lived in Chicago when I was 23 and 20K USD per year was enough to live in a large house in suburbs + for my old car + food + partying every weekend.

So you make 150K, get a great car instead of my old car, live in the downtown instead of suburbs, eat more expensive stuff, go to elite clubs. And still I bet you will be spending more than 60-70K per year.

Honestly I don't think there is no single expat that is 25- years old in the UAE that makes more than 150K USD a year.


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## pamela0810 (Apr 5, 2010)

nathanalgren said:


> People are being nice, giving you logical reasons etc, but my reaction was `Are you frikking out of your mind?`
> 
> If the driver and maid are the problems, I am quite sure you can afford them in Canada too with a 150K wage at 23 years old + single. I lived in Chicago when I was 23 and 20K USD per year was enough to live in a large house in suburbs + for my old car + food + partying every weekend.
> 
> ...


You sound like a bitter old man Nathan! 

He's 23 and successful yet humble enough to ask a question, give him a chance.

Geez and I thought I was the mean one on the forum!


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## Ivelhurst (Dec 23, 2012)

I think you should stay put without a doubt and I have been in the Gulf for 25 years! The golden days are long gone and since the 2008 crash, salaries have come tumbling down too. Added to which you have a company that treats you really well.


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