# Off I go to Mexico, part 1



## edgeee (Jun 21, 2012)

a thousand questions, but first things first. living in NC, been all over the US.
single, 60 yr old male, fixed income from SSDI, no spanish, but will learn the basics before i go. the first new spanish i learned, here, is the word for lawyer. it figures.
my timeline is 6 mos to 1 yr - preparing may take a while.
income = $1500/mo, very little savings which is why i need to move to Mx, so frugal is always job one.

*what i want:*
lots more expats, mild climate, so lake chapala area seems likely best choice.
room - safe storage and closets,edge of, or outside town for cheap housing - $500-700/mo is my limit, so i can save a little each month.
i realize i may have to raise this a bit, but more than $800 would be rough.
P/T housekeeping needed, and from reading in here i know these things can be ticklish. 1-2 days/wk would be plenty.

a car. i don't know if i could live without one. (i'm not able to walk except short distances, and not often.) what are the pros & cons? is keeping GIECO insurance gonna work?

it would be strictly the simplist of plans, a tourist FMM, 180 days at a time.
later i may want more, but that's for another day.

*What i plan to take:*
all my tools (nothing big) and assorted hardware.
mucho books - i will still have hundreds after i give away most of them.
laptop, printer, assorted electronics (i want a smart phone but don't have one yet.) microwave. and most of the most-often mentioned items in that great thread i just spent 3 hours reading. _what's the one thing....?_

i plan to take my car pulling a small trailer, 3-4 times over 6-12 mos.
if i can minimize enough it will be less. just the basics first trip, then i'll decide what i need the most before the next trip.

*what i know:* (not much but i'm reading the forum like mad)

*what i NEED to know:*
legalities and procedures for beginners. (the INM pdf is not in english)
traps to avoid and tricks and tips to help.

and most of all, is this feasible? are there any glaring flaws or omissions?
i plan to have a good plan before i take the plunge.

thanks in advance, and thanks a bunch for getting me this far.
this forum is tops in my book.:clap2:

happy trails and safe travels, ed.
p.s.
_remember, two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts do._


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## Anonimo (Apr 8, 2012)

Ed;
Although I'm not personally familiar with the Lake Chapala area, U.S. $500-$700 would get you a very fine rental in the Pátzcuaro area. We pay about half that for a nice 2 bdr house, but it's cheaper than many rentals because we are 20 minutes out of town, in the countryside.

A gentle suggestion: practice thinking in pesos instead of dollars. It will ease your adaptation to life here.


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## Grizzy (Nov 8, 2010)

I would suggest assessing the cost of things and the need for bringing more of your belongings from up north after your first trip down. Driving with a trailer on the cuota's (toll roads) both ways, plus car permit etc will add up. Start with what you think you need and don't want to give up and assess the situation for a few months. Tools are a good item to bring if they are of good quality as the ones I have bought here haven't been fabulous.
You may be better off selling more stuff and minimizing your trips, or at least minimizing trips pulling the trailer.

Re books, that is a lot of bulk and weight to transport. Have you considered an e-reader? You can easily store a thousand books on a device smaller than one paperback. 

The best advice you will get here is to come down, rent for a while and see how you like it and what you really need/want to bring back.

I have an SUV's load of things left with relatives in storage that I couldn't part with a year and a half ago that I can't seem to get back to pick up now LOL. So I guess I really didn't need it that badly nor do I miss any of it


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## sparks (Jun 17, 2007)

>>>> is keeping GIECO insurance gonna work

US insurance doesn't work in Mexico. You'll need Mexican insurance online or at the border. Might see if GIECO will let you put car "in storage" when you cross the border


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## conklinwh (Dec 19, 2009)

Edgee, as said on other thread, we are also from NC. We started out on 180 day tourist visas for about 5 years as we spent winters/summers in Mexico & springs/falls in the US. This basically because Raleigh Durham too hot in the summer and too cold in the winter but great spring/fall. We have now moved, built and are using FM3s' but still do an annual friends/family fall tour using NC as base.
We thought about Lakeside but picked San Miguel as initial rental for a few reasons. One was the drive to the border. We wanted easy one day drive as San Miguel is close to Hwy 57 and a straight shot to the border in 8+ hrs. Believe Lakeside 3-4 hours more( Patzcuaro as well). In addition, we liked the sense of town and community. San Miguel is the center and very easy to get around, by taxi/bus if walking a problem. We also liked that San Miguel was some 450 years old with great facilities but a lot of constraints like no paved roads, stoplights, neon signs. We also like that a very long/strong expat community focused on volunteerism and the arts. The 1st major influx was after WW2 when soldiers could use the GI bill to study art and this gave the expat community a great base.
People will say that San Miguel is too expensive and it can be if you want it to be. We have many friends, mostly artists, that would live very well on $1500/month with money left over.
In fact one friend found a 3BR apartment with balcony and covered rooftop for about $200/month.
Let me know if you want to talk driving routes or anything else. I do agree with the post that for the 1st trip, I would bring only what you can fit in car, rent for up to 6 months and then decide further.


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## Longford (May 25, 2012)

Lucky you, a move to Mexico. :clap2:

The best advice I can offer you at this point is to have a look at and thoroughly Rolly Brook's website which has archived some excellent information regarding both moving to and living in Mexico. I consider it a first step for newbies. 

My Life in Mxico Page Directory


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## edgeee (Jun 21, 2012)

thanks folks, been reading more, so i've already adjusted my aim a bit.
my car will have to become a pickup with a medium camper shell, to simplify and maximize the first trip.
however, i will probably visit for a month first, using the bus, leaving my car at the border, in a safe storage of course - or even bus TO the border as well, need more data to decide. just to learn the area a little i would only require minimum housing for 1 month and should be able to arrange that online, at minimal cost. with my forum friends i can confirm before i commit. i'm so eager to meet some of the LCS.

i see that many nice homes are affordable, but for a 30 day stay, i'd rather just get an efficiency/studio type or small apt. are there many situations like this available, without getting in bad places? or any residential hotels with writers and such?

some people have called me a know-it-all. it's the price i pay for being curious and pushy. but i do know this: know-it-alls really don't you know. we just want to.

back soon for more good advice.:ranger:


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## conklinwh (Dec 19, 2009)

If I were to drive NC to the Mexico/Texas border, I'd probably drive all the way in as not much different than the US except don't drive any distance at night. We are 1500mi Raleigh to the border and about 500mi into Mexico so very easy drive. If you did decide to leave car at the border, long term airport parking a reasonable option. We have fiends that use the Harlingen TX airport long term but they do the opposite. They fly Southwest Kansas City to Harlingen and then drive in. I would expect Laredo better for bus connections and expect that there is long term parking there.
Most good inexpensive places tend to rent locally so you may end up coming with a short commit and then look for a place.


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## edgeee (Jun 21, 2012)

thanks, tho i will not be in NC when i make the move. i will need to spend a few months elsewhere first. not even sure where i'll be then.
i'm sort ahead of myself, since this is all months from now, but i want to start learning the things i need to now.


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## mickisue1 (Mar 10, 2012)

edgeee said:


> thanks, tho i will not be in NC when i make the move. i will need to spend a few months elsewhere first. not even sure where i'll be then.
> i'm sort ahead of myself, since this is all months from now, but i want to start learning the things i need to now.


I'm not as far along in my plans as you, Ed, but one thing I've read repeatedly is that the best way to find affordable housing that you like is to do two things.

One is to get to know the expats in your chosen town; the ones who have been there longer will know what are "real" rents, and what are "******" rents.

The other is to spend time in the area of town that you like; many homes for rent are not necessarily advertised.

Doing both should save you a lot each month.


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## edgeee (Jun 21, 2012)

thanks mickisue1, that's good advice.
one reason i like the lake chapala area is the abundance of the LCS in the forum.


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## edgeee (Jun 21, 2012)

having learned a lot this past week, i have a different view now.
in my situation, one option seems to be a logical next step, if it is an option.
the CELEP is noted here, tho the link isn't currently working.
the problem is with their website so it may be temporary.

but i don't really want that anyway, since i'm looking to visit lakeside.
so i wonder if GDL has something similar to CELEP. i could take a 2-4 week spanish class, if offered,
longer if i have to. next spring i may be able to swing that, but i need more info to decide.
so, i'm guessing that such a thing is available, and 30-60 days of classes would give me a good grounding in espanol.
at the same time, it would allow me to live close to lakeside so i could visit there.
i would fly or bus to GDL from US.
therefore, any info on availability, costs, links, etc. would help.
also anything similar in Ajijic/Chapala by chance would be even better.


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

edgeee said:


> having learned a lot this past week, i have a different view now.
> in my situation, one option seems to be a logical next step, if it is an option.
> the CELEP is noted here, tho the link isn't currently working.
> the problem is with their website so it may be temporary.
> ...


There are a lot of choices for Spanish language classes in Guadalajara:
ICI - Instituto Comunicación International, 
IMAC, 
CEPE - Centro Educación para Extranjeros, 
Guadalajara Language Center, 
Instituto Cultural Mexicano Norteamericano 
plus a score of others. 

I have taken classes at ICI (Spanish and German) and at Instituto Cultural (Spanish). Instituto Cultural is partially supported by the US Consulate in Guadalajara. CEPE is part of the University of Guadalajara. 

A couple of years ago I surveyed a lot of them getting pricing information. The prices vary quite a bit depending on the school. I think ICI is one of the least expensive with group rates as low as around $30 pesos/hour for monthly rates on classes that meet several days a week. The Cultural Institute seems to charge a lot more for Spanish classes than they do for other languages. I have the impression, based on very little, that CEPE might have very good classes. Maybe that is just my bias in favor of universities. However, CEPE is not cheap. I had a friend who taught Chinese there.


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

TundraGreen said:


> CEPE is part of the University of Guadalajara.
> 
> I have the impression, based on very little, that CEPE might have very good classes. Maybe that is just my bias in favor of universities. However, CEPE is not cheap. I had a friend who taught Chinese there.


I don't know anything about the CEPE in Guadalajara, but the one in Mexico City has an excellent reputation. Edgeee should keep in mind that you get what you pay for, so in the end, CEPE might be a better investment than some of the cheaper schools.


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

Isla Verde said:


> I don't know anything about the CEPE in Guadalajara, but the one in Mexico City has an excellent reputation. Edgeee should keep in mind that you get what you pay for, so in the end, CEPE might be a better investment than some of the cheaper schools.


I am not sure the "you get what you pay for" applies to language training. In my experience, it depends entirely on the individual teacher and I have had good and bad experiences with different teachers at the same school. To give specific examples, I took a Spanish class at ICI that was great and a German class that was terrible (it was all in Spanish, I learned more Spanish than German in that class, and ICI is owned by a German). But the Spanish class at ICI was way better than another Spanish class I took at Instituto Cultural that cost more than twice as much. I took classes from three or four different teachers at Olé in Querétaro and some were good and some not so good.

PS
With all the classes I have taken, you would think I would be fluent, but it comes very slowly.


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## ptrichmondmike (Aug 26, 2010)

Thanks ed -- many of us still in the planning stages need to think about all the things you've mentioned. My move will be much simpler than yours -- a couple of suitcases and my laptop bag, no car, no books or anything bulky or heavy. I've put nearly 1,000 books on my Kindle, so will give away all the hard copies I presently own. My one concern is for my DVD collection, which is large and with many classics and beloved favorites -- I guess those will have to be shipped separately, which I'll need to look into at some point. Everything else I own -- extra clothes (including a very classy Italian tux which I doubt I'll ever need again), kitchen stuff, furniture, TV and music systems, tchotchkes, whatever -- will be given away or tossed. This won't be traumatic -- I'm not at all attached to most stuff and periodically clean house thoroughly just to find daylight amidst the things we gringos love to accumulate.

I'm curious what others think about your plan to spend $500-700/month rent on a $1,500 income. I also will have about $1,500/month of SS income, unless I decide to take up my present employer's offer to pay me for remote contract grant-writing, which would add another $1,000/month. I haven't decided about that yet, as I am a very lazy boy and really don't want to work one second past retirement (my favorite non-English expression is the Italian saying "Dolce far niente," the sweetness of utter indolence. I don't have even a tiny drop of The Protestant Ethic.)

In my researches, $500-700 will rent an extremely comfortable residence almost anywhere in Mexico except for the ghastly tourist beach resorts, especially so for a single person. Beautiful, fully furnished, often with a garden, and with the fees for things like wireless internet and a maid built in. Given a $1,500/month base income, I have been assuming that $400 was my top price, and that $300 would still get me much, much more than I pay for here in the Bay Area at multiples of that amount.

I'm curious -- if you spend 40+% of your income on rent, can you still get by fairly easily on a remaining $800/month?


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

ptrichmondmike said:


> ...I'm curious -- if you spend 40+% of your income on rent, can you still get by fairly easily on a remaining $800/month?


I think it depends on your life style. If you have no car, live within the lower electricity allotments, eat most meals at home, then $800/month would be generous and allow some travel, some meals out, occasional movies or shows. If you want to eat in restaurants all or most of the time, hang out in bars at night, run an air conditioner, like to buy the latest styles in designer clothes or any one of lots of other expensive habits, then maybe not so easy.

As one point of comparison, the US Peace Corps gives its volunteers about $800/month for all of their expenses including rent. They manage to live very comfortably on this including travel. Some live in shared spaces but many have their own apartment. None have cars since Peace Corps prohibits them. Some are broke at the end of every month, many manage to save money. None of the volunteers I have met feel that it is particularly onerous to live on the allotment, nor do they live an especially deprived life style. Incidentally, they are not all young by any means. I started in Mexico this way and had three score and plus years when I was in the Peace Corps.


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## jasavak (Nov 22, 2011)

The working people in the Mexican interior pay around $1500 pesos ($110 per month) for a basic 2 bed , 1 bath in an average area . Personally , I would be willing to pay 4000 pesos ($300) for a bit more exclusiveness . Of course , I have heard gringos pay as much as 4000 pesos for tiny 1 bedrooms in more expensive areas like Mexico City or beach resorts .


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## cisco (Feb 27, 2010)

I've been living in Guadalajara for almost 17 yrs. I'm the only american in the colonia. Married 13 yrs to a very nice mexican lady.

Best thing for you to do is to go to Chapala. Most of the local mexicans speak some form of english. There are americans a-plenty there so you should have no problems there.
You can find a furnished place to live for around $300-$400. Go to the real estate agency and they will be glad to help. The American Legion has a bulletin board you can check out.
You can get by ok on $1500 a month.

When you get here everything will kind of fall in place.


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## cisco (Feb 27, 2010)

jasavak said:


> The working people in the Mexican interior pay around $1500 pesos ($110 per month) for a basic 2 bed , 1 bath in an average area . Personally , I would be willing to pay 4000 pesos ($300) for a bit more exclusiveness . Of course , I have heard gringos pay as much as 4000 pesos for tiny 1 bedrooms in more expensive areas like Mexico City or beach resorts .


I pay 3500 pesos for the basic 2bd mexican rowhouse in GDL. It's around 700 sq ft. Today the peso was 13.19 so I'm pay ing $265 a month.
You're not going to get much better for $300.


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## gudgrief (Jun 20, 2011)

I must be a basket case. I don't fit any "type" of expat. But I'm going to pipe in with a couple of points, one of which yo may need to get specific advice on.

This is just a guess, on a tourist card good for 180 days, I'm guessing customs will be fairly subjective about what's reasonable to bring in. Driving roundtrip from NC is going to be costly. The tolls in Mexico are quite high and it is not advisable to travel the free roads. When you add up all you travel expenses and it adds up to $5,000 or more, you're close to the point where getting an FM3 and the privilege of bringing in your household goods along with professional moving comes out no more expensive. The professional movers who specialize in international moves will do the paperwork so that you don't get stuck with delays or fees and duties. I spent the $5000 because I knew I was going to stay in Mexico. Even though I could have replaced everything I couldn't bring in on a tourist card for $5,000 or less, there were some things I wanted no matter what.

My monthly nut in the middle of Zacatecas, a well preserved museum, where real estate and rents are high for Mexico for a couple of reasons, is $450 right now which includes rent, utilities, satellite TV, internet, phone. It's a reasonably comfortable, reasonably equipped, modestly furnished two-bedroom in a prime location (for me) because I can walk, take a taxi or city bus to anywhere I want to go for less than $4.00 each way. City bus is $0.21 per leg. I don't need a car.

The two bedrooms are small, the bathroom a closet, but the kitchen, living/dining and studio areas are ample. I could easily pay double for a larger, more luxurious, more modern house or apartment but not in the part of town I want.

I moved from Las Vegas and found the Mexican consulate very helpful.

You live in Raleigh? Look into the Spanish Language Meetup (Meetup.com). I moved to Las Vegas from Raleigh-Durham. The lady who runs the Meetup can put you in touch with competent Spanich language instruction and the meet up sessions plus other social activities will give you a change to practice Spanish before your move. Yeah, this may sound like a sales pitch. I think very highly of the lady, we still keep in touch and you have nothing to lose just checking it out.


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