# UK Will or Spanish Testimonio?



## Lontano (Oct 1, 2015)

Hi, my question concerns writing a Will.

I've been living between Spain and the UK for the past 6 months. I have three properties in the UK and am on the voters register there. I also have one property in Spain and am "empadronado" there. My work is Internet based but for various UK companies so I pay my taxes and national insurance contributions in the UK. 

My question is do I need a Spanish Will as well as a UK Will? My partner is Spanish but most of my property is in the UK. Is it true I might need two Wills, the Spanish one to cover the Spanish property and the UK one for the UK properties? 

Thanks in advance for any advice!


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

I think you are in somewhat of a mess.

If you are truly living most of your time in the UK, then YES, you should pay taxes there BUT, you should not be on the padron here as this is not your main residence. If I were you, I would come off this straight away - it can have many negative repercussions.

You should certainly have a will for UK assets and one for Spanish assets. Your Spanish will should specify that you want it to follow the succession laws of UK - this is especially true if you are not married to your 'partner'.


If Spain is your main residence now, then you should be paying taxes in Spain!


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## Lontano (Oct 1, 2015)

I am "empadronado" because this was the criteria for my mortgage deeds. However, I think you are confusing this with residency (residencia). I do not have Spanish residency, "empadronado" means I am registered with the local town hall.

Because I am in Spain no more than 180 days a year, the companies I work for are not in Spain, they are in the UK and other countries, and I don't generate any income from property or any other source in Spain, I don't think I qualify for paying Spanish taxes. 

Please correct me if I am wrong! And thanks for the advice about getting a Will in Spain as well as one in the UK, I will make some enquiries.


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## samthemainman (Aug 15, 2012)

OK - you should be ok on the taxes issue if you genuinely do live in the UK for 183 days or more - but more information is here: 

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa...8559/RDR3_govuk_hyperlink__updated_078500.pdf

However - please be careful with the statement: 'the companies I work for are not in Spain, they are in the UK and other countries, and I don't generate any income from property or any other source in Spain, I don't think I qualify for paying Spanish taxes.'

The company you work for doesn't have to be in Spain for you to need to pay income tax here. My company is UK based and I work online from home/in a co-working office but as I am resident here for almost all of the year I have to pay my taxes in Spain - only right too if I'm benefiting from the public services from living here.

Re: the will - yes you will need it in both countries as already mentioned.


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## Lontano (Oct 1, 2015)

Thanks for the link to the Statutory Residence Test, Sam. 

It's a very interesting read and reassuring to know that not only do I qualify as a UK resident under the first automatic overseas test, but also under the second test and third test!


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

Lontano said:


> I am "empadronado" because this was the criteria for my mortgage deeds. However, I think you are confusing this with residency (residencia). I do not have Spanish residency, "empadronado" means I am registered with the local town hall.
> 
> Because I am in Spain no more than 180 days a year, the companies I work for are not in Spain, they are in the UK and other countries, and I don't generate any income from property or any other source in Spain, I don't think I qualify for paying Spanish taxes.
> 
> Please correct me if I am wrong! And thanks for the advice about getting a Will in Spain as well as one in the UK, I will make some enquiries.


PLEASE - I am NOT confusing anything. 

Firstly, there is actually no such thing as residencia for EU nationals. What you do is to sign on the list of foreigners and get a green card/paper.

The padron, as you say, is from the town hall. It is ONLY for residents. You must NOT be on it and the bank were wrong in asking you to get one! There are many non-resident property owners in Spain.

Just because you are not in Spain for more than 183 days doesn't mean that you should not be paying tax here. The link that Sam provided is great but only covers the UK rules. Spanish rules are different. What you have to do is to make sure where you are actually tax resident by checking with somebody who is independent and who knows both sets of rules.


Spain's tax rules are on worldwide income so it wouldn't matter that your property in Spain doesn't generate any income.


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## Lontano (Oct 1, 2015)

*Confusion of terms*

I think you are getting confused. The bank were not wrong in asking me to get the "empadronamento". I am not sure you know what it means because you keep referring to it as "padron" which is the Spanish term for "Godfather"! Also it is logical that if I am not earning money in a country I don't have to pay taxes there.


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## Lontano (Oct 1, 2015)

Also "residencia" does exist as I know someone who changed their residencia from Italy to Spain and someone who changed their residencia from Canary Islands to Barcelona, all within the EU.


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

Lontano said:


> I think you are getting confused. The bank were not wrong in asking me to get the "empadronamento". I am not sure you know what it means because you keep referring to it as "padron" which is the Spanish term for "Godfather"! Also it is logical that if I am not earning money in a country I don't have to pay taxes there.


'Padron' is what the local (Spanish) people refer to it as - expats also refer to it colloquially as that.

I have lived in Spain for 9 years, speak Spanish and a little Valenciano. I help people with their Spanish paperwork and other such matters on a daily basis, so .............


Believe me, if you are resident in Spain, you DO pay tax on ALL worldwide income - FACT. Just ask a professional (Spanish) tax advisor - it really is that simple.

Clearly there are situations where double taxation is an issue, so you won't pay tax twice on the same income. However, you simply declare that income in Spain, offset tax already paid and pay the difference (if there is any).


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## Chopera (Apr 22, 2013)

snikpoh said:


> PLEASE - I am NOT confusing anything.
> 
> Firstly, there is actually no such thing as residencia for EU nationals. What you do is to sign on the list of foreigners and get a green card/paper.
> 
> The padron, as you say, is from the town hall. It is ONLY for residents. You must NOT be on it and the bank were wrong in asking you to get one! There are many non-resident property owners in Spain.


I'm pretty sure that you can be on the padron without being a resident. It is more of an administrative thing for the local authorities rather than a fiscal/legal status thing.


snikpoh said:


> Just because you are not in Spain for more than 183 days doesn't mean that you should not be paying tax here. The link that Sam provided is great but only covers the UK rules. Spanish rules are different. What you have to do is to make sure where you are actually tax resident by checking with somebody who is independent and who knows both sets of rules.
> 
> 
> Spain's tax rules are on worldwide income so it wouldn't matter that your property in Spain doesn't generate any income.


In general if you are in Spain for less than 183 days a year then you don't pay tax in Spain. Yes there are cases where people who spend less than 183 days a year do pay tax in Spain, because for example they have families spending most of the year in Spain. But the op hasn't indicated anything like that applies to him.


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

Lontano said:


> Also "residencia" does exist as I know someone who changed their residencia from Italy to Spain and someone who changed their residencia from Canary Islands to Barcelona, all within the EU.


It does NOT exist for EU nationals - FACT.

You can change your place of residence but this is nothing to do with the Spanish document called a "residencia".


You are in danger of looking a bit of a fool by contradicting facts - please do some research first, then we can discuss any issues on this forum.


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## samthemainman (Aug 15, 2012)

You're right in that there is no such thing officially as 'residencia'. The problem is - and not sure whether you had this in Valencia - the Extranjeria/Police, Banks, Town Hall, often refer to the 'EU Foreigner's List Bit Of Flimsy Green Paper' as 'Residencia'.


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## Lolito (Aug 25, 2012)

....and padrón is not 'godfather'... lol!


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## Chopera (Apr 22, 2013)

Lolito said:


> ....and padrón is not 'godfather'... lol!


Yeah, everyone knows it's a little green pepper!


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

So, if padron == Godfather, what does padrino mean????


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

samthemainman said:


> You're right in that there is no such thing officially as 'residencia'. The problem is - and not sure whether you had this in Valencia - the Extranjeria/Police, Banks, Town Hall, often refer to the 'EU Foreigner's List Bit Of Flimsy Green Paper' as 'Residencia'.


You're absolutely correct, it's not just us foreigners who get it wrong but also some Spanish officials.

However, having clarified the situation on here, I think it wrong when someone then continues to argue that black is white!

[/rant]


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Lontano said:


> Hi, my question concerns writing a Will.
> 
> I've been living between Spain and the UK for the past 6 months. I have three properties in the UK and am on the voters register there. I also have one property in Spain and am "empadronado" there. My work is Internet based but for various UK companies so I pay my taxes and national insurance contributions in the UK.
> 
> ...





Lontano said:


> I am "empadronado" because this was the criteria for my mortgage deeds. However, I think you are confusing this with residency (residencia). I do not have Spanish residency, "empadronado" means I am registered with the local town hall.
> 
> Because I am in Spain no more than 180 days a year, the companies I work for are not in Spain, they are in the UK and other countries, and I don't generate any income from property or any other source in Spain, I don't think I qualify for paying Spanish taxes.
> 
> Please correct me if I am wrong! And thanks for the advice about getting a Will in Spain as well as one in the UK, I will make some enquiries.





Lontano said:


> I think you are getting confused. The bank were not wrong in asking me to get the "empadronamento". I am not sure you know what it means because you keep referring to it as "padron" which is the Spanish term for "Godfather"! Also it is logical that if I am not earning money in a country I don't have to pay taxes there.





Lontano said:


> Also "residencia" does exist as I know someone who changed their residencia from Italy to Spain and someone who changed their residencia from Canary Islands to Barcelona, all within the EU.


 Let's clear a few things up - I don't think I've seen so much mis-information from one poster in so few posts before

Godfather is _padrino

_Being_ empadronado _means being on what is commonly called the_ padrón , _which is a list of *residents of the town*, not property owners

so if you don't actually live here you should absolutely not be _emapadronado

_it can actually cause you problems to be so, because the tax office could consider you to be tax resident & demand their slice of your income_ - _so if you don't live here I strongly recommend that you get yourself removed from the list asap
this from our local ayto_ PADRÃ“N FAQs – A guide to the â€˜padrÃ³nâ€™ for foreign residents. | JosÃ© Chulvi

_what is commonly but erroneously referred to as _residencia _both by Spanish funcionarios & foreigners, as far as EU residents are concerned should properly be called _Certificado de Registro de Ciudadano de la Unión. _Only non-EU citizens can acquire a _Tarjeta de Residencia._

If indeed you do live here, then you must register as resident & acquire a _Certificado de Registro de Ciudadano de la Unión _& you must also submit a tax return here, regardless of where the income is from, because all residents have to declare worldwide income. Whether you owe any tax here will be between you & _hacienda, _the Spanish tax office.


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## Justina (Jan 25, 2013)

*Padron*



Lontano said:


> I think you are getting confused. The bank were not wrong in asking me to get the "empadronamento". I am not sure you know what it means because you keep referring to it as "padron" which is the Spanish term for "Godfather"! Also it is logical that if I am not earning money in a country I don't have to pay taxes there.


I thought padrino was the godfather in Spanish


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