# EEA Family Permit



## S.S.S (Mar 10, 2015)

Hi everyone, 

I am an EU National living in the UK for more than 10 years (student and part-time job), I have a UK permanent resident card. I have come to India to marry my husband, I have stayed in India for more than 3 months now, we applied for a FP here. We plan to travel to the UK together.

Do I need to be exercising treaty rights now, or am I already because I have a PR, or am I considered to be newly entering into the UK (as I have been away for more than 3 months)?

Thanx


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## _shel (Mar 2, 2014)

You need to be exercising treaty rights in order to apply for your husbands residence card.


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## S.S.S (Mar 10, 2015)

hi Shel, 
sorry, but my question is. Do I need to be exercising treaty rights for my husband to get an EEA Family Permit?
i'm asking because I'm in India for the past 3 months, so I was previously exercising treaty rights, but not anymore.


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## _shel (Mar 2, 2014)

No, you just need to be European and not British.


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## S.S.S (Mar 10, 2015)

I am a EU citizen, but have a permanent resident in UK. 
So I don't need to show that I am exercising treaty rights for this EEA family permit application?


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## S.S.S (Mar 10, 2015)

Hi again,

this is my husbands previous immigration history....

"I was granted to leave to remain in the United Kingdom on 8th October 2010 with a valid leave to enter as Tier 4 (student) at Royal London College until 30th April 2013. I attended my College until 3rd April 2012, after this date my college was closed. I did not know the reason, after a few weeks I found out my Colleges’ Licence was revoked by Home Office. I consulted a different College agent, he advised me to wait for a ‘60 days letter’ from Home Office giving permission to find a new College sponsor. I did not receive any response from Home Office until 30th April 2013. 

Using my own initiative, I did not want to overstay, so exactly on 30th April 2013 I submitted an application for further leave to remain in UK as a Tier 4 (student) at Academy De London College, my application was refused by Home Office on 11th May 2013 by stating in Immigration History ‘your application rejected for no CAS’. However, this was not true as I have proof that my application was returned due to payment error (mistake in card number). I reapplied with correct payment details on 24th May 2013. 

However, again my application returned on 31st May 2013 by Home Office stating in Immigration History ‘your application rejected’, but the reason for the rejection was not said. I have proof that my application was returned because my application photographs were too big and fee transaction was declined. Again, on 21st June 2013 I resubmitted a further Tier 4 student application, having made all the corrections. Home office did not reply to me for 6 months and I kept on enquiring about my visa status, but they said it is in process. So I kept waiting for my visa, hoping for a positive response.

On 3rd January 2014 I received a ’60 days letter’ it said that the Home Office had revoked the College Licence and that I had a 60 days period to find a new sponsor. This letter was not in my Immigration History, when I received the letter I assumed that the Visa had been accepted so I proceeded further with another CAS application. On the 6th March 2014 I sent a new application with a new sponsor. This new application was said to be inappropriate and void, because they had taken a decision on my previous application (21st June 2013) – I only found this out after my arrest by Immigration.

On 18th June 2014 immigration officers came to my home and arrested me, the explanation they gave me for the arrest was that my visa had been refused. Before this day I was not given a refusal letter or any information regarding my visa. I was provided with a said refusal by authorities’ at my home, I was told that my Tier 4 student application (21st June 2013) had been refused on 2nd May 2014 as it was being alleged that documents submitted in support of my application i.e. English Language certificate (TOEIC) was not genuine and was obtained by deception. They also said that I was not served any refusal letter until I was provided with a said refusal upon authorities’ attendance at my home. 

I confirm that I was a genuine student and genuinely sought leave as Tier 4 (general) student by submitting Tier 4 (student) application. Home office said my application was refused because I obtain the TOEIC test by doing deception on 1st may 2013 at New London College. This accusation could have been true except for the important fact that I did NOT pass this TOEIC test; I did not reach B2 Level so I failed the test. I did the TOEIC test again on 17th July 2013 and this time I passed. I physically appeared for both the above tests and after screening I was allowed to sit and give the test, during the tests I carried my photo id, therefore I would be on the College CCTV footage. All this proves I did not do deception.

I confirm that in order to obtain admission and study in UK I Obtained IELTS English Language Test Certificate from India in 2010 and my bands was 5.5 which is equal to B2 Of CEFR and I have passed my secondary and intermediate exams in India are equal O and A level respectively all above my studies are instructed in English. All this should also prove that I do not need to obtain any TOEIC Certificates through deception because my English is fluent.

I did not fight the case while I was in the Detention Centre because I did not have Right of Appeal. In addition, I did not have all the documents and proofs that I have now. The reason I did not appeal the case from India is because I had already wasted much time and resources, and I was not prepared to be rejected again.

I respectfully request you to make corrections in my Immigration History. I have written this letter to show I have not done any wrong throughout my stay in the UK, as I have provided all proofs with this letter. Please kindly accept my new EEA Family Permit Application.

I have attached the following copies as proof of all the above facts:
	Immigration History given by Home office
	CAS letter to obtain Visa for UK from India (Royal London College)
	CAS letter sent with application on 30th April 2013 (Academy De London)
	Rejection Letter stating there was a payment error 11th May 2013
	Rejection Letter stating there was photograph and transaction error 31st May 2013
	’60 Days Letter’ stating 60 day period to find new sponsor 3rd January 2014
	Refusal Letter given to me on time of arrest 18th July 2014
	TOEIC Failed Certificate 1st May 2013
	TOEIC Passed Certificate 17th July 2013
	IELTS Certificate which I obtained in India proving fluency in English"

Will this affect the EEA Family Permit???
thanx


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## _shel (Mar 2, 2014)

Be prepared for them to reject assuming your relationship is contrived for visa purposes unless you have substantial evidence of a genuine, loving and committed marriage.


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## S.S.S (Mar 10, 2015)

is this enough proof of genuine, loving and committed marriage?

list of documents we sent............
i.	Applicants Original Passport
ii.	Applicants online visa application form with appointment confirmation
iii.	Applicants one passport sized colour photograph
iv.	EEA Nationals Declaration Letter
v.	Attested copy of EEA Nationals passport
vi.	Copy of EEA Nationals Permanent Resident Card and NHS number in UK
vii.	Original Government Marriage certificate Stamped by Ministry of External Affairs
viii.	Original Attested Religious Marriage certificate from WAQF Board
ix.	Wedding Invitation Card
x.	Original News Paper were our love story is told on Valentine’s Day
xi.	3 Original Greeting Cards we exchanged
xii.	100 Photographs of our wedding and of other occasions,
xiii.	Skype, WhatsApp, Lyca Mobile, Facebook, iMessage histories
xiv.	Copies of EEA Nationals payslips and bank statements, as proof of where we met and previously exercised treaty right
xv.	Airplane ticket of EEA Nationals visit to India
xvi.	Copy of EEA Nationals Indian Visa’
xvii.	Copy of bus tickets we travelled together in India
xviii.	Original tickets were we went sightseeing in India
xix.	Original Job Offer letter from Pizza Hut
xx.	Copy of EEA Nationals National Insurance Number
xxi.	Copy of EEA Nationals Parents Support Letter
xxii.	Copy of EEA Nationals Parents Bank statements
xxiii.	Copy of Parents Payslips
xxiv.	Copy of Council Tax Letter
xxv.	Copy of Mortgage Statement
xxvi.	Original EEA Nationals College Conformation Letter before withdrawal
xxvii.	Original EEA Nationals Exam Results Publication College letter
xxviii.	Original EEA Nationals College progress report addressed to EEA Nationals mother
xxix.	Copy of EEA Nationals European Health insurance in UK
xxx.	Copies of EEA Nationals 3 previous education certificates in UK
xxxi.	Applicants Personal Letter, explaining relationship
xxxii.	Copies of Applicants Bank Statements showing previous job salary
xxxiii.	Copies of Applicants Payslips, showing we worked together at the same time in Pizza Hut
xxxiv.	Letter from Applicant explaining previous Immigration History
xxxv.	Copy of Applicants Immigration History given by Home office
xxxvi.	Copy of Applicants CAS letter to obtain Visa for UK from India (Royal London College)
xxxvii.	Copy of Applicants CAS letter sent with application on 30th April 2013 (Academy De London)
xxxviii.	Copy of Applicants Rejection Letter stating there was a payment error 11th May 2013
xxxix.	Copy of Applicants Rejection Letter stating there was photograph and transaction error 31st May 2013
xl.	Copy of Applicants ’60 Days Letter’ stating 60 day period to find new sponsor 3rd January 2014
xli.	Copy of Applicants Refusal Letter given to me on time of arrest 18th July 2014
xlii.	Copy of Applicants TOEIC Failed Certificate 1st May 2013
xliii.	Copy of Applicants TOEIC Passed Certificate 17th July 2013
xliv.	Copy of Applicants IELTS Certificate which I obtained in India proving fluency in English


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## _shel (Mar 2, 2014)

S.S.S said:


> is this enough proof of genuine, loving and committed marriage?
> 
> list of documents we sent............
> i.	Applicants Original Passport
> ...


 Only the things in bold prove a relationship but only if they prove you were together. For instance tickets and reciepts mean nothing unless both your names are on them.

Cards dont mean much unless in addressed, stamped & dated envelopes. 

Photos are good from your wedding if they contain family and others also. 

One thing they will ask is why did you not make this application before whilst in the country.


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## S.S.S (Mar 10, 2015)

i was 17 at that time, 
but I have mentioned this in my supporting letter.


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## S.S.S (Mar 10, 2015)

Bus tickets have both our names.
photos of both of us in UK, before the removal
More than 100 people came to our wedding, we have photos to prove this.
news paper has both our names.
we had 3410 pages worth of whatsapp history, but we selected important messages of each month for 6 months - sent 117 pages
44 pages of Skype, 44 pages of call history, 41 pages of facebook, all messages from past 12 months.
both our Payslips from the same job at the same time, proving where we met.
And I gave up my college for my husband, I am still here for him. Waiting for visa so we can travel together.

Is this enough to prove to the ECO that ours is a genuine marriage?


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## _shel (Mar 2, 2014)

Sounds good to me


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## S.S.S (Mar 10, 2015)

Thank you very much Shel,

we are little bit happy now, you gave us some hope :fingerscrossed:

so ECO cant refuse the visa based on my husbands previous history?


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## _shel (Mar 2, 2014)

Nope not under EU rules, being upfront about your history is a good thing but you don't need to send all that information about it. It is not relevant under European rules and they can only deny if you dont meet the requirements. Ie the relationship is not genuine, which your evidence should show it is. Or if you were a criminal/for public safety.


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## S.S.S (Mar 10, 2015)

Thank you so much Shel,

We hope it will be positive!! :fingerscrossed:

We will keep you updated.


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## S.S.S (Mar 10, 2015)

Hi Shel,

We applied for the visa on 6th March, the GOV website says 100% applications are processed within 10 days in the city we applied form. It has been 11 working days, so we emailed UKVI to ask about the status of the visa. They replied saying that it has not even been looked at by an ECO. 
So do we just have to wait, or is there any way to make it quicker, as EEA FP has priority over other visas.

THANX


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## _shel (Mar 2, 2014)

You wait, nothing can make it move faster than it takes. Have patience


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## S.S.S (Mar 10, 2015)

Hi again Shel,

Today we got a call and they asked only my husband to attend an interview. Is it normal for only the applicant to be called to the interview, not both of us? What could be the main reason they called only him, and not me also? and what type of questions are they likely to ask?
we are worried.

Thanx


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Because they only want to question him?
No way of knowing what it's all about, but possibilities are about relationship, plans to travel to UK, purpose etc.


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## veritens (May 23, 2014)

Hey guys, I have a rather silly question. 

I'm currently living in the UK, I entered with a family permit, which expired in November. Now I want to travel to Berlin to make a new one.

When filling the form for the new permit, they ask about my permanent residence in one of the first pages. Is my permanent residence London or my home in Argentina?

Thank you!


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## nyclon (Apr 3, 2011)

Why haven't you applied for an EEA2 permit?


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## S.S.S (Mar 10, 2015)

Hi again, 

My husband attended an interview on 30/03/15, he answered all the questions correctly, he explained everything in detail even when the interviewer was being rude.

However today we got the passport back and the visa was rejected. I believed we had provided enough evidence that our marriage was legit, but apparently not, as he rejected it saying ours was a marriage of convenience. 

The refusal: "Given your clear desire and the length you have already gone to in order to remain in the UK, together with the circumstances and the timeline surrounding your relationship, engagement and marriage, I am not satisfied you have not entered into this relationship for the purpose of securing entry to the UK. As such i am satisfied that you do not intend to live with your sponsor as a married person. I am also satisfied you are a party to a marriage of convenience..."

I have read many posts and usually you tell people it is their choice whether to appeal or re-apply, but my Indian visa is expiring in May and I'm not intending to leave without my husband, so which one is the fastest and best way?

Is there any way to complain against them, like a chief entry clearance officer? an email or something?

I mentioned before in this thread all the documents we submitted (quite a lot), we submitted all those because we know the previous bad immigration history my husband has, so what else can I possibly send to prove to them it is a legit marriage? is it not enough that I gave up my life in the UK to be here with him?

I am very upset about the way they dealt with our case, they did not even open our application for 2 weeks, and when he did he called for interview another week later and the interviewer was very rude. Plus if they suspect a marriage of convenience don't they have to call the spouse for interview also?

If we involve media (BBC) regarding this unlawful immigration, would that help or make it worse?


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## fergie (Oct 4, 2010)

S.S.S said:


> Hi again,
> 
> My husband attended an interview on 30/03/15, he answered all the questions correctly, he explained everything in detail even when the interviewer was being rude.
> 
> ...


If you really love him, then stay in India with him, both do something worthwhile-work wise, save up, then try again in a few years. Perhaps study in India for a shortage occupation qualification, taught in English, the UK needs and recognises, in the meantime, it might help any application in the future.


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## S.S.S (Mar 10, 2015)

fergie said:


> If you really love him, then stay in India with him, both do something worthwhile-work wise, save up, then try again in a few years. Perhaps study in India for a shortage occupation qualification, taught in English, the UK needs and recognises, in the meantime, it might help any application in the future.


yes I love him so much- no need for you to say. Umm maybe you should come to india and see the climate and temperature it reaches in the summer, in addition what food is available for me - ironically I don't like curries or spicy food. Furthermore, why would I give up halfway through my education in the UK when there is an option for me to go back with him and carry on my life as usual with my husband.

My questions were directed to Shel, he knows our case from the beginning. 

thanks anyway.


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## Crawford (Jan 23, 2011)

S.S.S said:


> i was 17 at that time,
> but I have mentioned this in my supporting letter.


How old are you now and how long have you been married?

How old is your husband?


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## S.S.S (Mar 10, 2015)

hi shel, can you please help us


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## S.S.S (Mar 10, 2015)

Hi,

Our EEA family permit has been refused a second time, with the same reason.

1) we want to appeal, but we are not sure how to. they sent a form, but it is very confusing
2) which is likely to be positive oral or paper hearing?
3) do we have to send the same bulk of documents that we sent for the family permit
4) do we need a lawyer for this? or can we do it ourselves?


Thank you


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Apply again. It costs nothing and it's faster.


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## S.S.S (Mar 10, 2015)

Joppa said:


> Apply again. It costs nothing and it's faster.


Thank you Joppa,
Just have a few more questions..

My husband got 2 refusal stamps in his passport, are those going to make any problems for future visas to any country?

If we get a third refusal, is it going to make a bad impact on the appeal judges decision? 

what other documents to add with the third application?

I really appreciate your answers.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Not for EEA family permit but may affect other types of visa applications, for UK and other countries.
Just the documents that meet the requirement. To evidence a genuine relationship.


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## S.S.S (Mar 10, 2015)

Hi again,
we took your advice,we re-applied, third time the ECO was not satisfied answers we provided, he refused with first ECo's decision.
we decided to appeal,
1.Is a solicitor or lawyer compulsory?
2.Do we have to send the same bundle of documents for appeal which we sent to EEA family permit ?
3. if we want to appeal online after paying certain fee, how we can send all these bundle of documents to court? (i.e. Do we need to attach all supporting documents online after filling application form or we have to print the completed application form and send to court in paper with all supporting documents )


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

#1 No.
#2 Just the extra documents you want them to consider.
#3 Scanning and emailing.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

I appears that visa office you applied to seems convinced that your relationship isn't genuine and will continue to reject your application, and will fight any appeal you may lodge. So you have a long road ahead. Living with him India for a year or so - putting your career on hold - may provide extra evidence that may help in your future application.


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## S.S.S (Mar 10, 2015)

thanks for your reply,

so if we re-apply it is most likely to be rejected again.
what if we appeal, will the court also reject our appeal?


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## S.S.S (Mar 10, 2015)

Hi, 
1.What are the chances if we appeal? will court also dismiss our case ?
2. Then how we can show our marriage is not one of convenience?

thank you


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

No way of telling as they are independent (immigration appeals judge), but Home Office officer (solicitor) present will argue strongly for the appeal to be turned down. Expect them to fight every inch of the way.
Living in India with your spouse for a year or more will help. Then reapply.


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## ALKB (Jan 20, 2012)

S.S.S said:


> Hi,
> 1.What are the chances if we appeal? will court also dismiss our case ?
> 2. Then how we can show our marriage is not one of convenience?
> 
> thank you


I lived in Pakistan for a while and can sympathise regarding food and climate (I was pregnant and LOST 15 kg in the first four months of pregnancy).

How about moving to another EU country for a year or two if India is not a good place for you to stay?


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## yahya khan (Apr 28, 2015)

Joppa said:


> No way of telling as they are independent (immigration appeals judge), but Home Office officer (solicitor) present will argue strongly for the appeal to be turned down. Expect them to fight every inch of the way.
> Living in India with your spouse for a year or more will help. Then reapply.


I listened and read thats after election uk is going to be out of eu so after they out of eu than eea permit will be same way or its will take time to changes imegration rules or eu family members have same right
Who apply for eea 2 and they are waiting for answer they have same way right and they will issue eu permit


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## ALKB (Jan 20, 2012)

yahya khan said:


> I listened and read thats after election uk is going to be out of eu so after they out of eu than eea permit will be same way or its will take time to changes imegration rules or eu family members have same right
> Who apply for eea 2 and they are waiting for answer they have same way right and they will issue eu permit


Nobody knows yet whether a referendum on EU membership will be held. If one is held, it will be in 2017 and even if UK votes out, it will not be an instant exit.

Lots of variables and nobody knows at this point in time what would happen to people already in the UK under EU rules.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

It's estimated it will take at least two years after a Yes vote in 2017 to extricate from EU. And there will be a lot of behind-the-scene negotiations to deal with EU citizens and their family members already in UK, and UK citizens in Europe.


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