# My plan! Legal and Do-able?



## onlyhereonce (Feb 10, 2011)

Hi,

Im lucky enough that my job is working online so i can work from anywhere with an internet connection. Im thinking of doing the following and as my kids are homeschooled, im just wondering if i would be breaking any laws?

My business is UK registered and i pay taxes in the UK. 
I buy a cheap property in the canary islands (most probably fuerteventura)
I spend 6 wks at a time there in that property and then return to the UK where we all stay at my parents for a week or so
Then we fly back to fuerteventura and stay another 6wks and so on

In the eyes of the law we are just on holiday in the house in fuerteventura surely? 
We don't claim benefits so there is no restriction there

My kids are all in favour of this and we are desperate to get out of the rat race. 

Any help really appreciated. 

Matt


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## onlyhereonce (Feb 10, 2011)

The reasoning behind this is we want to live abroad but homeschooling is illegal in Spain so think this is the next best thing as if we ever got questioned we could just say we holiday alot and we live in the UK (my parents more than happy for us to move in there, on paper at least)


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

onlyhereonce said:


> Hi,
> 
> Im lucky enough that my job is working online so i can work from anywhere with an internet connection. Im thinking of doing the following and ad my kids are homeschooled, im just wondering if i would be breaking any laws?
> 
> ...


Home schooling isnt strictly legal in Spain, altho if you're on holiday - which you would be, then I guess its okish?? The flights would be pretty costly tho, not to mention the hassle - every six weeks??????? 

I'm not sure of the legalities with regards to tax and the 183 day rule???

Jo xxx


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## onlyhereonce (Feb 10, 2011)

Ah, i forgot about the 183 day rule. That's my idea shot then


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## AllHeart (Nov 22, 2013)

onlyhereonce said:


> Ah, i forgot about the 183 day rule. That's my idea shot then


Matt, you give up quickly!  Perhaps there's another dream that's doable. Have you called the UK Embassy to consider another dream? Embassies know a lot about the rules and regulations and laws, especially between countries. There's an Embassy in England, of course, but what may be even more helpful is the UK Embassy in Spain. Here's a list of UK Embassies:

British Embassy London

First a dream - a doable dream...


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## onlyhereonce (Feb 10, 2011)

AllHeart said:


> Matt, you give up quickly!  Perhaps there's another dream that's doable. Have you called the UK Embassy to consider another dream? Embassies know a lot about the rules and regulations and laws, especially between countries. There's an Embassy in England, of course, but what may be even more helpful is the UK Embassy in Spain. Here's a list of UK Embassies:
> 
> British Embassy London
> 
> First a dream - a doable dream...


Oh i haven't given up lol

How i read it, the 183 day doesn't count as regards tax in the UK as i have a ltd company so im liable in the UK anyway. Regarding Spain, there is a dual taxation treaty with Spain and the UK so i wouldn't be liable twice anyway?


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

onlyhereonce said:


> Oh i haven't given up lol
> 
> How i read it, the 183 day doesn't count as regards tax in the UK as i have a ltd company so im liable in the UK anyway. Regarding Spain, there is a dual taxation treaty with Spain and the UK so i wouldn't be liable twice anyway?


you're right that you wouldn't have to pay the same tax twice, but if you were here more than 183 days is a Spanish tax year (Jan 1st to Dec 31st) then you'd have to make a declaration.

So just be sure that you _don't _spend that amount of time here, & that you can prove it

as far as the kids are concerned, if you came to the attention of the local education authorities here, you might get some grief - but again, if you can prove that you aren't here for more than weeks at a time, that can be dealt with

istr that there's a 90 day rule in the UK now, as far as residency is concerned - & also if you're here 90 consecutive days you'd be considered to be resident as far as Spain is concerned, so keep the time out of the UK & in Spain to less than 90 days at a time - & be able to prove it 

strictly speaking you shouldn't actually work while you're here on holiday.....


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## zenkarma (Feb 15, 2013)

onlyhereonce said:


> How i read it, the 183 day doesn't count as regards tax in the UK as i have a ltd company so im liable in the UK anyway. Regarding Spain, there is a dual taxation treaty with Spain and the UK so i wouldn't be liable twice anyway?


The dual taxation treaty between the UK and Spain means you wouldn't be liable to pay tax twice (once in the UK and once in Spain) on the same income.

However, if you're planning on spending 6 weeks in Spain and 1 week outside of Spain per year, you would spend more than 183 days a year in Spain which means you de facto become a Spanish fiscal tax resident and therefore become liable for Spanish taxation on your worldwide income. 

Given that the Spanish taxable allowances are generally less than those in the UK any Spanish tax liability that is more than that calculated in the UK would be payable to the Spanish tax authorities. You wouldn't pay the same tax twice on the same earnings, but you do have to pay any differences between the two tax liabilities.

Spain generally uses two ways of establishing fiscal residency. The commonly used 183 day rule but also where the centre of economic interest is. If you're spending that much time in Spain, the authorities may well choose to interpret this as being your centre of economic interest. It's also up to the individual to prove to the authorities concerned the actual amount of time spent in the country.

None of this should preclude you from considering relocating to Spain, but decisions can only be made based on the veracity and accuracy of the information at hand to make them. I strongly suggest therefore that you look into the tax situation very carefully when considering your move and if necessary seek professional expert advice.


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## AllHeart (Nov 22, 2013)

Matt, you said you're planning to buy property in Spain, which may in fact make things complicated with your taxes. Have you thought of renting?

Also - especially with kids - have you considered that you won't be eligible for public healthcare, and will have to buy private healthcare?

I'm hoping to be working when going to Spain too. My work is also by the Internet, and I'm planning to be working for countries other than Spain. However, this is work done in Spain, so I will be taxed in Spain - not the countries I'll be working for. I'm not sure how it will work with you, but, like Xabiachica says, this is something you also need to consider as it is work done in Spain.

I hope that helps. Keep dreaming.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

AllHeart said:


> Matt, you said you're planning to buy property in Spain, which may in fact make things complicated with your taxes. Have you thought of renting?
> 
> Also - especially with kids - have you considered that you won't be eligible for public healthcare, and will have to buy private healthcare?
> 
> ...


But if its for a six week "holiday" each time wouldnt the EHIC card suffice???? Altho a permanent address in Spain without one in the UK means thats your country of residence, so you would be a resident ??

All of that said, I cant imagine the complete and utter hassle and cost of commuting with kids every six weeks for a week - my husband used to do it on his own and that was bad enough and as the kids get older, I doubt they'll be particularly compliant. 

I certainly wouldnt recommend buying in Spain cos that tends to make it too permanent.

However, in the short term, without laying down roots and buying, it might be worth trying out???

Jo xxx


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

AllHeart said:


> Matt, you said you're planning to buy property in Spain, which may in fact make things complicated with your taxes. Have you thought of renting?
> 
> Also - especially with kids - have you considered that you won't be eligible for public healthcare, and will have to buy private healthcare?
> 
> ...



onlyhereonce isn't planning to move here full time, so it's a different situation to yours


owning property won't make any difference at all, any more than for someone who visits for 3 weeks a year - unless they don't own a home in the UK, in which case Spain might argue for 'centre of economic interest' as zenkarma suggests, on the basis that they spend more or less the same amount of time in each country & only own property here


as I said - if they keep to less than 183 days in total & less than 90 consecutive - & can _prove_ it, then if challenged, they'll be able to show that they just take long holidays here

for healthcare - the EHIC will cover for urgent & follow-up treatment while on holiday here, though the consulate does recommend holiday travel/sickness insurance, too


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## Williams2 (Sep 15, 2013)

I'm sure that - having done your homework already, you know all about this.
Anyway it's always best to check the UK's HMRC Statutory Residence Test ( SRT )

HMRC Statutory Residence Test, Guidance Notes


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## AllHeart (Nov 22, 2013)

Wow, I'm lost as to what's being advised here.  I'll leave this in the capable hands of more experienced forum members.

Matt, there's just one more thing I picked up on that you may want to consider. You say you want to move to Spain to get out of the "rat race." You may want to consider that the rat race may be at its fiersest now in Spain where about 26% are unemployed. So perhaps your motive to get out the rat race doesn't fit with a move to Spain. Or perhaps there are other motives that you didn't speak of here?


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## brocher (Mar 21, 2011)

xabiachica said:


> onlyhereonce isn't planning to move here full time, so it's a different situation to yours
> 
> 
> owning property won't make any difference at all, any more than for someone who visits for 3 weeks a year - unless they don't own a home in the UK, in which case Spain might argue for 'centre of economic interest' as zenkarma suggests, on the basis that they spend more or less the same amount of time in each country & only own property here
> ...


Like Allheart, I am confused by the advice being given here. 

The OP IS planning moving to Spain for way over 183 days/ year. 

They are planning on buying a property and spending all their time in Spain with only an occasional, week long holiday back to the UK, staying with relatives. The fact they will be staying in the UK with relatives shows they will have no UK address of their own, but they will have their own address in Spain, whether they buy or rent - to my mind, that clearly constitutes living and being resident in Spain. 

No Uk address means they are not entitled to free NHS or to use an EHIC card.

They would need to prove they qualify for residence, pay autonomo, pay tax, etc.

To avoid doing all the above would be breaking far more serious laws, as I see it, than homeschooling.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

brocher said:


> Like Allheart, I am confused by the advice being given here.
> 
> The OP IS planning moving to Spain for way over 183 days/ year.
> 
> ...


oops - I misread - I thought he said 6 weeks here then 6 back in the UK !!


in that case he can't do it - but he _could _do what I suggested - that would be within the law


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## brocher (Mar 21, 2011)

xabiachica said:


> oops - I misread - I thought he said 6 weeks here then 6 back in the UK !!
> 
> 
> in that case he can't do it - but he _could _do what I suggested - that would be within the law


Yes, perhaps the OP could pull it off if they stay less than 183 days/ 90 consecutive, etc - see HMRC for full details of that proviso. It's time over a number of years, not just the one year........but legally they would have to retain their own UK address to be allowed to use the NHS, EHIC and to show that their centre of economic interest isn't in Spain, etc.


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## NickZ (Jun 26, 2009)

In theory you only need a place that is available to you. Staying with Grandma isn't in itself an issue. But if they own their own home. Receive mail there. Spend most of the time there then it becomes suspicious.


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