# Cost of Living in and around London??



## Dereck (Jun 13, 2011)

Hi All

My wife and I have been talking about wowking and living in the UK. We have two kids 3 and 1 respectively. We would like to know of the following point:

1. Cost of living for an average sized family as mentioned above?
2. Cost of a 2 bedroom house or apartment or townhouse?
3. Average Utility bills eg, Electricity, heating, internet...etc?
4. Cost of day care for the 2 kids?
5. Groceries on weekly basis
6. Transportation, fuel costs
5. Leisure costs eg, restuarants, movies, cencerts, etc?
And other things worth mentioning. 

Jointly we have a combined net salary of ZAR24000.00(BGP 2181) per month. 

What is the average salary for skilled workers?


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Most of London is a very expensive to live and if you only have £2181 to live on a month, I dont think London would be viable, but the rest of England varies hugely depending on the area. So its not really possible to give you average costs. You need to pinpoint an area and then ask. The south of England in general is more expensive than the north. But I have to say that £2181 a month isnt gonna be much, altho it can be done

Jo xxx


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Dereck said:


> What is the average salary for skilled workers?


It's around £25,000 a year gross for one person. This is the national figure, so it will be higher in London, but as Bev says, so is the cost of living. But getting a job that pays anywhere near that is another matter, as there are almost 3 million unemployed.

I agree with Bev that your income is too low, since you won't have extended family to help you out, like free childcare by grandparents. You may just about manage in the North, like parts of Manchester or Liverpool, esp if you are eligible for public funds, like tax credits and child benefit. But you need to have British or other EU nationality or otherwise have indefinite leave.


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## Dereck (Jun 13, 2011)

Joppa said:


> It's around £25,000 a year gross for one person. This is the national figure, so it will be higher in London, but as Bev says, so is the cost of living. But getting a job that pays anywhere near that is another matter, as there are almost 3 million unemployed.
> 
> I agree with Bev that your income is too low, since you won't have extended family to help you out, like free childcare by grandparents. You may just about manage in the North, like parts of Manchester or Liverpool, esp if you are eligible for public funds, like tax credits and child benefit. But you need to have British or other EU nationality or otherwise have indefinite leave.


Well, my wife will be coming with and kids, so we are in the process of getting work for her aswell, and we are qualified in the same field. 

A skilled worker, in our country is someone who has extensive knowledge and experience in the work that they do.


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## Dereck (Jun 13, 2011)

jojo said:


> Most of London is a very expensive to live and if you only have £2181 to live on a month, I dont think London would be viable, but the rest of England varies hugely depending on the area. So its not really possible to give you average costs. You need to pinpoint an area and then ask. The south of England in general is more expensive than the north. But I have to say that £2181 a month isnt gonna be much, altho it can be done
> 
> Jo xxx


Ok, I don't know if this would help you, as I am not fimiliar with London per say, but what I do want, is to live about 30-40min from London in radius, so maybe this would help you in helping me pinpoint an area that would be comfortable for me and my family. 

We are also in the process of getting my wife work as well, so if we do succeed, then we are looking at a joint salary per month for both of us of around GBP 3000.00


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## Johanna (Apr 13, 2009)

Hi Dereck
Make sure you can move to the UK, the rules have changed quite a bit.

I have a son in London, he earns more than what you currently do and finds it difficult to cope with the cost of living. He shares a flat with another person ( not his flat ) -- he has lived in London for over 13 years so knows the ropes.

Hope you will find enough information by paging through the threads.


Oh yes, if you live quite a distance from your job, you will have to consider the cost of commuting as well and it is not cheap!


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## Dereck (Jun 13, 2011)

Hi Johanna, 

Could you please get me in touch with your son, as I need to get a feel of how things are in the UK, before I ultimately decide in relocating there.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Dereck said:


> Well, my wife will be coming with and kids, so we are in the process of getting work for her aswell, and we are qualified in the same field.
> 
> A skilled worker, in our country is someone who has extensive knowledge and experience in the work that they do.



Depends what skills. Mostly in England a skilled worker is someone who has official and recognised qualifications, regardless of experience.

As for outside of London, well 40 miles north of London could be a bit cheaper than 40 miles south, but again it depends where and you then have to factor in travelling into London if thats what you plan to do. Rental/house prices can vary considerably from area to area of a town, so its not just about where, but which bit. Where I come from in Worthing, west sussex, there are "good" areas and no so good areas and the prices can vary hugely, two miles away in one of the villages the prices of property, council tax etc shoots up. Have a look at some on line estate agents and see what you think??

I think you're going to need more than £2180 to live on tho - especially if thats pre tax etc. Double that may just about enable you to live ok

Jo xxx


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## Dereck (Jun 13, 2011)

Jojo, 

Would you be able to suggest a few placed in the proximity of London that would be affordable, so I can look at the estate agents in these area to get a feel of what the going rate for rent would be? 

Also, I have a ceritificate in Credit Management, would you consider this to fall under skilled level in the UK.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Dereck said:


> Jojo,
> 
> Would you be able to suggest a few placed in the proximity of London that would be affordable, so I can look at the estate agents in these area to get a feel of what the going rate for rent would be?
> 
> Also, I have a ceritificate in Credit Management, would you consider this to fall under skilled level in the UK.


If its a recognised and needed qualification in the UK, then maybe, altho there is high unemployment, so getting a job in that field may not be easy. I dont know if you'll need to get a work visa etc????

£2180 is not a feasable figure if you're planning to commute. You'd have to live too far away from London and then you'd be spending most of that monthly figure just commuting. My daughters who live in Worthing, west sussex (not an expensive area if you find the less desirable parts) - which is about 60 miles from London, but work at London Gatwick Airport, so have to travel, earn nearly double your figure, they are single and struggle

Jo xxx


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Have a read of this thread, it may give you some ideas

http://www.expatforum.com/expats/br...about-costs-renting-flat-logistics-flats.html look at post #5 in particular

Jo xxx


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## Dereck (Jun 13, 2011)

I must say, you are painting a grim picture here for me Jojo, but I understand that this is not intentional and it's based on your experience and feedback.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Dereck said:


> I must say, you are painting a grim picture here for me Jojo, but I understand that this is not intentional and it's based on your experience and feedback.



I'm trying to be realistic. In fairness I havent lived there for four years, altho my husband commutes there (we live in Spain and he works in England) and my grown up children live there. I do know that we couldnt have survived four years ago on what you're suggesting, but then we're all different!? Also in the UK once you're paying into the system there, you can get various benefits and top ups if you earn under a certain amount. I think before you look too deeply, you need to see if its even feasible for you to work there??

Jo xxxx


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## nyclon (Apr 3, 2011)

To put London in perspective for you, at least area wise, it is composed of 33 boroughs and spans 659 square miles. Generally, as you get get farther away from Central London, things get cheaper, but desirable commuter towns are desirable partly because they are commutable to London and so still probably not doable on your budget. Anything you might save by being outside of London will be eaten up by the cost of commuting which would be something like £2000-3000 per year or more. As others have said, it's an expensive place to live and with inflation and a recent rise in the VAT from 17.5% to 20%, it's gotten a lot more expensive.

You don't say whether you are quoting your salary as net or gross so here is a pay calculator:

UK PAYE Income Tax Calculator 2011 salary calculator UK. Updated for 2011 / 2012 tax year. Calculate wages pension national insurance and student loan repayments online.

People have different needs and lifestyles, but I will tell you that there is no way my husband and I (just the 2 of us) could live in London (and we do) on what you are proposing whether it's gross or net. You are adding 2 kids and child care to the mix so I'm sorry to say it just doesn't seem feasible and like others have said, you might want to focus on places farther north.


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## Weebie (Sep 16, 2009)

I'm sure the OP is going to be earning much more than he is earning in saffer. 24000ZAR per month is sweet f**k all in any Major Westernised country like Australia, Britain or New Zealand.


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## Dereck (Jun 13, 2011)

Weebie said:


> I'm sure the OP is going to be earning much more than he is earning in saffer. 24000ZAR per month is sweet f**k all in any Major Westernised country like Australia, Britain or New Zealand.


I know, hence also one of the reasons of wanting to immigrate.


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## Johanna (Apr 13, 2009)

Dereck said:


> Jointly we have a combined net salary of ZAR24000.00(BGP 2181) per month.


How much would that be before tax?


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## Weebie (Sep 16, 2009)

London is expensive but to be Honest I don't know if it's more expensive than lets just say Johannesburg. Some things such as cars for instance are much cheaper in London than SA


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## Dereck (Jun 13, 2011)

Johanna said:


> How much would that be before tax?


Well mine alone is ZAR13978 before tax, after tax it's ZAR11110.00
Combined with my wife it's ZAR24000 before tax.


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## sk2 (May 2, 2011)

I wouldn't take people's advice about living costs here too seriously - most seem to have no idea about budgeting and appear to be wasting a lot of money for no reason. Yes, London is more expensive than the rest of England, just as very large cities tend to be, but if you're sensible with your cash then it's entirely possible to live there comfortably on an average salary. Don't let these people put you off just because they might not be too good at saving or budgeting.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

What is the exchange on a ZAR/GBP???? And will you be earning that in the UK??? 


..... and cars maybe cheaper to buy in London than SA, but they most definitely arent cheaper to run, petrol, road tax, insurances, toll, parking charges......... Its horrendous and cheaper and easier to use public transport

Jo xxx


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## Weebie (Sep 16, 2009)

Property in Central London and Fuel are the only things I could think that would be cheaper than say Cape Town or Johannesburg. London compared to many cities around the world isn;t actually that expensive...Many Brits are a bit deluded and ignorant to the costs associated with their country. HAving said that some of the salaries in the UK and Europe are very poor so it's all relative.

To the OP You'll need a lot more than you currently earn. Probably about 1200-1600 minimun pounds a month for rental 400-500 quid for fuel and just say another 200-300 quid for transport. Ideally you will want to be earning minimum about 500 quid each per week.


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## Dereck (Jun 13, 2011)

sk2 said:


> I wouldn't take people's advice about living costs here too seriously - most seem to have no idea about budgeting and appear to be wasting a lot of money for no reason. Yes, London is more expensive than the rest of England, just as very large cities tend to be, but if you're sensible with your cash then it's entirely possible to live there comfortably on an average salary. Don't let these people put you off just because they might not be too good at saving or budgeting.


Thank you very much for the reply SK2. But all in all, all the replies I have been given have shared some light on my decision to immigrate. I have the good with bad in a sense, but I am still eager on immigrating to the UK.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Weebie said:


> London compared to many cities around the world isn;t actually that expensive...Many Brits are a bit deluded and ignorant to the costs associated with their country. HAving said that some of the salaries in the UK and Europe are very poor so it's all relative.
> 
> .


I totally disagree!! No one is deluded or ignorant, and if I may say, that is a rather unpleasant and uninformed thing to say! 

It depends where you choose to live in London, but the London many think of as "London" and the nicer parts are horrendously expensive. There are cheaper areas, but you get what you pay for
Jo


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## Johanna (Apr 13, 2009)

Dereck said:


> Thank you very much for the reply SK2. But all in all, all the replies I have been given have shared some light on my decision to immigrate. I have the good with bad in a sense, but I am still eager on immigrating to the UK.


I have to agree with SK2, by proper budgeting you can get by, but please think carefully before you decide to move to London, The northern part of the UK is quite a bit cheaper to live in. When we first got there, we rented a four bedroom semi-detached bungalow for £450 pcm.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Dereck said:


> Thank you very much for the reply SK2. But all in all, all the replies I have been given have shared some light on my decision to immigrate. I have the good with bad in a sense, but I am still eager on immigrating to the UK.


Perhaps look at moving to somewhere away from London itself and take alook at some of the other towns and cities??? Have you got work/visa etc organised ??? 

Jo xxx


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

jojo said:


> I totally disagree!! No one is deluded or ignorant, and if I may say, that is a rather unpleasant and uninformed thing to say!
> 
> It depends where you choose to live in London, but the London many think of as "London" and the nicer parts are horrendously expensive. There are cheaper areas, but you get what you pay for
> Jo


I agree. Even excluding very posh areas like Belgravia and Mayfair, anywhere in Zone 1 and 2 (within a couple of miles of Central London) will be twice as expensive in terms of cost of living (esp rent) as in many places outside London, esp in the Midlands and North. For example, an average 2-bedroom flat in non-exclusive parts of London will be around £1000 a month. In Manchester it's £500.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Joppa said:


> I agree. Even excluding very posh areas like Belgravia and Mayfair, anywhere in Zone 1 and 2 (within a couple of miles of Central London) will be twice as expensive in terms of cost of living (esp rent) as in many places outside London, esp in the Midlands and North. For example, an average 2-bedroom flat in non-exclusive parts of London will be around £1000 a month. In Manchester it's £500.


In central London (mayfair/belgravia) a 2 bedroom flat could be a minimum of £5,000 a month excluding bills. Apparently my Husbands friend/business associate is renting exactly that at the mo and its nothing special - fortunately his company are paying! 

In Worthing, (south coast) a two bed flat is around £600 a month altho it depends on the area - a bad area would be lower and a nicer area higher - thats the point with the UK........ and of course, lets not forget good old "council tax" which again varies hugely depending on area, property size etc and that isnt included in the rent (generally)

Jo xxx


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Weebie said:


> To the OP You'll need a lot more than you currently earn. Probably about 1200-1600 minimun pounds a month for rental 400-500 quid for fuel and just say another 200-300 quid for transport. Ideally you will want to be earning minimum about 500 quid each per week.


..... oh and your sums dont add up! Not to mention that the OP say he has £2081 a month - which actually works out a "500 quid" a week

Jo


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## Johanna (Apr 13, 2009)

jojo said:


> ..... oh and your sums dont add up! Not to mention that the OP say he has £2081 a month - which actually works out a "500 quid" a week
> 
> Jo


I have not looked at the first posting again, but this is what the OP earns in SA .. not sure what type of profession and whether the OP qualifies to work in the UK.

Dereck, I sent you a pm yesterday, have not received a response yet. You have posted more than five times , so you can reply by pm should you wish to.


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## Dereck (Jun 13, 2011)

jojo said:


> Perhaps look at moving to somewhere away from London itself and take alook at some of the other towns and cities??? Have you got work/visa etc organised ???
> 
> Jo xxx


I sent you a pm regarding my visa situation, as for a job, well I have received a job offer.


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## Dereck (Jun 13, 2011)

Johanna said:


> I have not looked at the first posting again, but this is what the OP earns in SA .. not sure what type of profession and whether the OP qualifies to work in the UK.
> 
> Dereck, I sent you a pm yesterday, have not received a response yet. You have posted more than five times , so you can reply by pm should you wish to.


What is an OP?

To give all of you an understanding of the salary in SA, I currently earn 181000 rands per annum, which in your value would equate to 16454 pounds. Therefore I asked, if I earn the same value I earn now but in pounds which would be around 1400 pounds per month, would that suffice more towards the north of London rather than the central London.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Dereck said:


> What is an OP?
> 
> To give all of you an understanding of the salary in SA, I currently earn 181000 rands per annum, which in your value would equate to 16454 pounds. Therefore I asked, if I earn the same value I earn now but in pounds which would be around 1400 pounds per month, would that suffice more towards the north of London rather than the central London.



OP is the original poster - you!!

£1400 a month isnt enough for one person let alone a family in most parts of the UK, my grown up daughters are single and they earn double that, live in Worthing (south coast) and struggle. Double that and you may just get by in a cheaper part of the UK, but it wont be easy. You need to work out what work you'll need to find and how you can increase your income

Jo xxx


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Dereck said:


> I sent you a pm regarding my visa situation, as for a job, well I have received a job offer.



I've not received anything?? By the way, I'm sorry to sound negative. Why dont you do some searches of properties to rent in and around london ( and anywhere else) and see if that gives you an idea. Maybe even phone some agents???


Jo xxx


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## Dereck (Jun 13, 2011)

Any suggestions on which areas to start


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## Dereck (Jun 13, 2011)

Well I did some research on the current salary for the work that I do, and in most cases it's around 20000 pounds per annum, I am a Credit Controller or Accounts Receivable Clerk


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Dereck said:


> Well I did some research on the current salary for the work that I do, and in most cases it's around 20000 pounds per annum, I am a Credit Controller or Accounts Receivable Clerk


Are you sure??? £20,000 isnt very much especially after tax and NI, certainly not enough to support a family of four in any area. London and surrounding areas would cost you that for just rent on a three bed house! 

Ok, heres my expenditure. We live in Spain now but I rent my house out in Worthing (Not an expensive area, a rather shabby seaside town in the south of England close to Brighton) for £1,500 a month (a five bed detached), the council tax there is £200 a month, utilities (gas electricity and water) £200 a month and food for four of us was (four years ago) £150 a week! I've not included the price of two cars, phone, internet or our incidentals. We didnt live like kings, but we were comfortable

Cornwall maybe nice?? Its fairly inexpensive and peaceful. Other than that - you may try further north - York???? But have a look at all areas.


Jo xxx


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## Dereck (Jun 13, 2011)

Thanks for the info Jo

Very informative, will try my best to check out the affordable areas. So atleast now I know, either further up North, or down South, and I think after reading all the replies, I would then deduce that to live little more than comfortably I will need around GBP3000-3500 to live and survive and have a little of fun.


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## FidelZastro (Jun 15, 2011)

Hi mates,

I am going to graduate soon and have decided to move to the UK for starting my professional career. I have been offered a sales position (Central London) with a base salary of GBP20,000 with a package including quaterly bonus, 20% commission, private dental/healthcare etc. so the sum should increase during my first year.

However, as a starter I shouldn't expect to exceed my base significantly in the first months and therefore need affordable accomodation, so I am thankful for all the input you made already. 

What do you think of "professional flatshares" (they seem to be quite popular for YPs in London)? I live in a flatshare right now so it would not make too much of a difference to me to keep it that way for, say, another year.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

FidelZastro said:


> Hi mates,
> 
> I am going to graduate soon and have decided to move to the UK for starting my professional career. I have been offered a sales position (Central London) with a base salary of GBP20,000 with a package including quaterly bonus, 20% commission, private dental/healthcare etc. so the sum should increase during my first year.
> 
> ...


If you're young and single, then maybe a flatshare - you'd need to look in the local newspaper adverts to see whats about and how much. You need to be looking outside of central London, where it will be significantly cheaper, but on a tube or bus route. £20,000 a year will be roughly £1400 a month which isnt going to go very far, but I guess you will get commission (if you dont I suspect you'll not have the job long????)

Jo xxx


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## FidelZastro (Jun 15, 2011)

Thanks for your reply.

I am 22, single and hungry to succeed. I am expecting my commission to meet my base after the first year, but it would be stupid to think that I will reach this level from day one. 

For my job interviews, I stayed in Greenwich, which is a nice, quiet village. The job is located near a DLR station, so I will see if I find something there. But as it is quite close to Canary Wharf (I read some 80,000 jobs are located there), I am afraid it won't be the cheapest option.

Do you think arriving in London 2 weeks before my starting date gives me enough time to find a room/studio flat?


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

FidelZastro said:


> Thanks for your reply.
> 
> I am 22, single and hungry to succeed. I am expecting my commission to meet my base after the first year, but it would be stupid to think that I will reach this level from day one.
> 
> ...



Yes, but it would be sensible to find out where and how much before you get here. Maybe ask your future employer or even colleagues if he can shed some light or if he knows anywhere???

Jo xxx


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## akira24 (Jul 10, 2011)

Dereck said:


> Hi All
> 
> My wife and I have been talking about wowking and living in the UK. We have two kids 3 and 1 respectively. We would like to know of the following point:
> 
> ...


The salary you mentioned might be tight for a family with 2 kids. My husband and I live close to London (20mins from London Waterloo train station). When we first moved in UK I was just a graduate and my husband had a degree + 5 years of professional experience we were earning 1.5 times your salary and we were living in London and although we are not spendthrifts, we found our finances tight sometimes. In my opinion, in order to live comfortable (e.g. having a dinner or two out per week, buying furniture/clothes, make some travelling at least twice a year out of UK) a single couple is looking to earn at least around £4,000 - we do not have kids so I cannot comment on this. The two things that cost the most in UK are: the accomodation (either if you are renting or if your are buying) and the travel (even if you use the public transport!). The rest is within the EU average, I would say that for some items you can find even very good deals here in UK that can take the cost below the average EU price. Before UK, I lived in Italy and another EU country. Below I try to reply to your queries.


1. Cost of living for an average sized family as mentioned above?See my response above
2. Cost of a 2 bedroom house or apartment or townhouse? I would suggest to allocate a budget of at least £1,000-£1,200. You can get lower, but some areas of London and its outskits can be preatty rough, so I would strongly recommend for you, your wife and your kids to chose carefully the area where you decide to live. It is not so easy to change, because the renting contracts usually bind you for min 6months. I know someone was mentioning Woking, I support that advice. Woking is a nice town, is close to London (20-25mins by fast train), and it has a lot of shops + it is surrounded by nice villages and green landscapes. As a starting point for your UK life, I would recommend this.
3. Average Utility bills eg, Electricity, heating, internet...etc?All in all per month you are looking at average £100
4. Cost of day care for the 2 kids?no idea
5. Groceries on weekly basis. We do our weekly food shopping in a top range supermarket, we spend around £200 monthly (average), £50 weekly(average). We also eat out sometimes during the week during lunch and/or dinner. Therefore, I would add to the cost above £10 weekly for lunch for 1 person (+£80 monthly for two), and £15-20 weekly for dinner for 1 person (+120 monthly min for two). Please, note £15-£20 for a dinner is a cheap dinner here in London, but I do not drink wine, and if we would like to have a treat once, the price is definetly higher than the figure above. You can consider it an average.
6. Transportation, fuel costs - car insurances have just rocketed!But I believe with a family of 2 kids you would need a car if you do not leave in London. Train tickets are also (too) expensive, to commute a distance of 25mins I pay ~£200 monthly.
5. Leisure costs eg, restuarants, movies, cencerts, etc? See point 5 above. Movie average adult ticket price £7.00, but you can go off peak or you can even go to cheap cinemas where they show movies that were firstly out months before. Concerts, you can find concerts for free, but usually expect to pay average adult ticket price equal to £25. Council gym are cheap, but their quality and cleanliness depends on where you live. Many of them they do have also swimming pools and special prices for kids -especially if they are really young. I would consider an average price per month for an adult of £45.
And other things worth mentioning. none

I hope this helps you.


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