# As I see it



## moataz123

I would say that I enjoyed reading the topics in this forum, laughed sometimes about the comments, agreed sometimes, yet I was horrified with the amount of comments I considered: Racism!!

I know a lot of western people living in Egypt or in their own countries, and I have investments in Europe so I visit and live in different countries yearly, including the UK. Moreover, I know a whole dozen of Egyptians married to women from other countries western or eastern, and I don't remember anyone being unhappy to live here, deal with Egyptians, or think that they were extracted from their beautiful very modern life and thrown into the desert dirt. No one as much as I know converted to another religion, and no one is missing "Ah, some night life, a short skirt, and some whisky". Fairly simple.

Of course as a country, specially a country in it's development process, we have our faults and mistakes. Of course as a country we have criminal individuals, bad individuals and opportunists. But we also have educated people, good people, and people who will give help without waiting for a "thank you", and anybody can feel the more intimate relation between people, compare it to your country and you will know what I mean.

If someone commented that you can find a circus entertainment on Cairo streets, another is hopping no one will "live and learn here" while a "long time resident" in Egypt, and others are questioning the creditability of the WHOLE Egyptian men, or the WHOLE Egyptian Muslim men, isn't this racism?? And in bold letters too??!!

If you came to Egypt thinking that we are still a British colony thus we should have the British living standards, if you came to Africa thinking it was part of Europe long time ago but an earthquake created the Mediterranean sea and separated the land, if you came to Egypt expecting to teach people how to live your life or to bow in appreciation for your lifestyle in your country, and if you came to Egypt thinking they have a "not so nice smelling" culture, then I would suggest you go back to your life, it is not an easy ride to coupe with another culture, and nobody asked if your own culture is better or worse.

Come to Egypt, live and learn a different culture with different minds, beware of the bad people that are everywhere in the world, choose people that will serve your needs and mentality and avoid people that will harm your believes, be happy with what you get or otherwise you are not forced to stay.

These are my two cents as they are saying.

Thank you.


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## Beatle

moataz123 said:


> I would say that I enjoyed reading the topics in this forum, laughed sometimes about the comments, agreed sometimes, yet I was horrified with the amount of comments I considered: Racism!!
> 
> I know a lot of western people living in Egypt or in their own countries, and I have investments in Europe so I visit and live in different countries yearly, including the UK. Moreover, I know a whole dozen of Egyptians married to women from other countries western or eastern, and I don't remember anyone being unhappy to live here, deal with Egyptians, or think that they were extracted from their beautiful very modern life and thrown into the desert dirt. No one as much as I know converted to another religion, and no one is missing "Ah, some night life, a short skirt, and some whisky". Fairly simple.
> 
> Of course as a country, specially a country in it's development process, we have our faults and mistakes. Of course as a country we have criminal individuals, bad individuals and opportunists. But we also have educated people, good people, and people who will give help without waiting for a "thank you", and anybody can feel the more intimate relation between people, compare it to your country and you will know what I mean.
> 
> If someone commented that you can find a circus entertainment on Cairo streets, another is hopping no one will "live and learn here" while "long time resident" in Egypt, and others are questioning the creditability of the WHOLE Egyptian men, or the WHOLE Egyptian Muslim men, isn't this racism?? And in bold letters too??!!


Hi

I agree with you. There have been so many racist comments disguised as people citing their "experience". Negative stereotyping is just a form of racism. There are good and bad aspects in all societies.

There are however many foreigners who love being in Egypt and who have said so on this site. Racism is unacceptable but I also feel sorry for those living there who choose not to enjoy the experience. I find Cairo a crazy and frustrating place at times but I also find it fun, rewarding, culturally enriching and fascinating. And I am immensely grateful to those warm and hospitable Egyptians who have helped make my time in Egypt more enjoyable and helped unravel the complicated aspects!


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## moataz123

Beatle said:


> Hi
> 
> I agree with you. There have been so many racist comments disguised as people citing their "experience". Negative stereotyping is just a form of racism. There are good and bad aspects in all societies.
> 
> There are however many foreigners who love being in Egypt and who have said so on this site. Racism is unacceptable but I also feel sorry for those living there who choose not to enjoy the experience. I find Cairo a crazy and frustrating place at times but I also find it fun, rewarding, culturally enriching and fascinating. And I am immensely grateful to those warm and hospitable Egyptians who have helped make my time in Egypt more enjoyable and helped unravel the complicated aspects!


Right to the point Beatle. Cairo and whole Egypt is crazy a lot, we Egyptians find it frustrating also sometimes, driving is crazy, life is loud and noisy, but you always find the characteristic of thousands of years civilization, sans the dirtiness, which is a new phenomena that started 5 or 6 years ago, but we are working on it.

Exactly, live the experience, enjoy what you like in it and avoid what you don't like, it's a new culture and a new chance to see something new. Nobody must compare it to his culture, there are always the good and bad.


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## DeadGuy

moataz123 said:


> .....................
> 
> sans the dirtiness, which is a new phenomena that started 5 or 6 years ago, but we are working on it.
> 
> .....................


Hi there,

Just a question, and pardon my curiosity, but a year is supposed to be 12 months, that's what I was taught anyway! You sure it's just a thing that started 5 or 6 years ago??!! :confused2:


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## moataz123

DeadGuy said:


> Hi there,
> 
> Just a question, and pardon my curiosity, but a year is supposed to be 12 months, that's what I was taught anyway! You sure it's just a thing that started 5 or 6 years ago??!! :confused2:


In Egypt it's 12 months also, the last time I checked , and yes it's a new thing that started with the new contracts singed with the privet companies (Italian or Spanish I don't remember), that didn't keep their deal due to some problems and several reasons. The situation were better than this anyway before.

But we are not talking about the garbage in this thread. Lol.


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## DeadGuy

moataz123 said:


> In Egypt it's 12 months also, the last time I checked , and yes it's a new thing that started with the new contracts singed with the privet companies (Italian or Spanish I don't remember), that didn't keep their deal due to some problems and several reasons. The situation were better than this anyway before.
> 
> But we are not talking about the garbage in this thread. Lol.



Aha, so now it's the Spanish company's problem, or whatever company it is, not people's problem...... I see.

I know it's not about the garbage, it's about how mean and racist people are, but I was just curious cause I was surprised by the figures in the "new phenomena that started 5 or 6 years ago, but we are working on it" thing......

And now I won't ask my other question that was on my mind about who's working on it, cause I can see that the foreign companies are the ones working on it 

Good luck dude!


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## cutiepie

Funny to see the response from some people when another Egyptian citizen writes in a positive light about Egypt.... pick pick pick at every detail ..

DeadGuy do you ever get tired of being so Negative and hateful it must really wear you!! Bet your the Life and soul of any occassion!! moaning and groaning all the time!!

I think you said previously that you are unemployed ,If i understood wrong I apologise if not ... maybe if you spent as much time focusing on looking for a job as you do on the internet writing bad things about Egypt/ Egyptians then you wouldn't have so much to complain about!You should read some Paulo Coelho get some Positive thinking going.... negative thoughts attracts negative things to happen!! You say you are stuck here in Egypt you do not have the chance to go abroad, yes it is more difficult to obtain a visa to go out of the country but I know lots who have done it on their own without the help of a foreign wife, extremely rich family just focused driven people who know what they want and go for it!

Anyway like I said positive thinking is a great thing ....much better for you than all the negative hate felt thoughts!!


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## DeadGuy

cutiepie said:


> Funny to see the response from some people when another Egyptian citizen writes in a positive light about Egypt.... pick pick pick at every detail ..
> 
> DeadGuy do you ever get tired of being so Negative and hateful it must really wear you!! Bet your the Life and soul of any occassion!! moaning and groaning all the time!!
> 
> I think you said previously that you are unemployed ,If i understood wrong I apologise if not ... maybe if you spent as much time focusing on looking for a job as you do on the internet writing bad things about Egypt/ Egyptians then you wouldn't have so much to complain about!You should read some Paulo Coelho get some Positive thinking going.... negative thoughts attracts negative things to happen!! You say you are stuck here in Egypt you do not have the chance to go abroad, yes it is more difficult to obtain a visa to go out of the country but I know lots who have done it on their own without the help of a foreign wife, extremely rich family just focused driven people who know what they want and go for it!
> 
> Anyway like I said positive thinking is a great thing ....much better for you than all the negative hate felt thoughts!!


Hi there,

More analytical posts :lol:

It is funny as well, and amazing, how people just pop in to criticize on what's described as a "negative thinking" while that's all they got to say, criticize!

I asked my question cause I was really confused, the figures mentioned (5or 6 years) made me think that I lost the sense of time somehow! So I had to ask! Can see how bad and wrong it was to ask now!! But I'm not sorry I asked!!!

But it's really amazing how people find talking about things that are REALLY happening to be some kind of "racism" while they talk about Brits and other nationalities in Egypt like they're coming straight from the 18th century thinking that Egypt is still a British colony! What a contradiction talk! Isn't putting it this way considered "racism" as well??!!!! And the "stereotype" thing! God! I really can't find words! People are preaching what they are not doing! How nice and smart is that!


You're talking about "negative" stuff being mentioned! Is it being mentioned on purpose?! Did someone start a thread just to make Egypt "look" bad??!!! As for the rest of the "negative" stuff, they just come up during discussing other topics!! Or that shouldn't happen??!! And everything should just be totally fine??!! Or there's a definition for "negative" thinking that includes facts and describes them as "negative" thoughts or something??!!!


As for your part regarding myself and all your......advices?? All I can say without being rude is: Do you even know me or know what I am doing/not doing??!!!!! Or is it just the analytical you assuming stuff?!!!

Good luck!


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## cutiepie

> But it's really amazing how people find talking about things that are REALLY happening to be some kind of "racism" while they talk about Brits and other nationalities in Egypt like they're coming straight from the 18th century thinking that Egypt is still a British colony! What a contradiction talk! Isn't putting it this way considered "racism" as well??!!!! And the "stereotype" thing! God! I really can't find words! People are preaching what they are not doing! How nice and smart is that!


???????????????????????????????

What is the above quote about ? Don't understand it?? Who said Egypt was a british colony?!



as for negative thinking have a read:

Negative Thinking 
Written by Chuck Gallozzi 



‘Negativitis’ cripples the human spirit

Does it seem strange that some people COMPLAIN they don’t have enough TIME to be happy, yet they find enough time to be sad? Not really. You see, their deplorable plight has nothing to do with having sufficient or insufficient time. It has everything to do with complaining. After all, complaining is the negation of happiness. It’s impossible to complain and be happy at the same time.

So, beware of that insidious disease known as ‘negativitis’ (negative thinking). It is as pervasive as the common cold, but far more damaging. It mutilates, cripples, and corrodes the human spirit. Those infected by it are broken men and women aimlessly plodding along. The dark clouds brooding over them *obscure their vision and cause them to become confrontational, apathetic, and cynical*. Their lives are like flat champagne, without any sizzle. So, how do we inoculate ourselves against such a harmful disease? It was only after learning about the horrible effects of smoking that people began to give it up. It may be wise to do the same here. So, let’s review the effects of negativitis.

1. *Complaining is worse than doing nothing*, for it is digging the rut one is in deeper and deeper. Each time one complains, it becomes increasingly difficult to climb out of the ditch they’ve created. To loosen the grip of this vicious habit, we need to become aware of our complaining, stop it in its tracks, and immediately look for something positive to say. It’s just a matter of replacing a bad habit with a good one.

2. *A negative attitude is self-defeating. We won’t find solutions to life’s problems by looking for someone or something to blame*. Those who say, "Positive thinking doesn't work for me," have got it backwards. It’s not positive thinking that has to work; YOU have to work. For example, you have to work at appreciating what you have instead of moaning about what you lack.

3. Failure to do what you want to do (be happy) causes physical and mental stress. A rotten attitude, not only delays success, but also shortens life by damaging the immune system (to learn more on how your thoughts affect your immune system, investigate psychoneuroimmunology). So, besides the diseases directly caused by stress, such as heart disease and ulcers, we become susceptible to all manner of other diseases because of a weakened immune system.

4. Do you know anyone with a negative attitude? How many years have they been that way? Two years? Five years? Ten years? That’s how many years of happiness and success they have robbed themselves of. Blinded by their own negativity, they are prevented from seeing the good around them.

5. One characteristic of negative thinkers is their need to have the world behave according to their wishes. They have never grown up and still live with childish demands. Whenever people and the world fail to act according to their selfish wishes, they are unhappy. Such a poisonous attitude prevents them from growing and learning how to cope with life's challenges.

6. Everything negative we say about ourselves to ourselves (self-talk) and to others is a suggestion. We are unwittingly practicing self-hypnosis, programing ourselves for failure, and creating self-fulfilling prophecies.

7. The negative world of our imagination creates a negative world that is real and one that we are forced to live in. Take Ralph, for example. He’s always complaining about life. “Nowadays people are rude and surly. No matter where you go or what you do, you have to deal with ill-bred people.” As he said this, we made our way to a coffee shop. Once inside, we were greeted by a cheerful chap who asked us what we would like. Sighing (as if it took a great effect to speak), Ralph, almost inaudibly, ordered a medium sized regular coffee. When it arrived, he started complaining. Pointing to the cup, he said, “This is medium?” Without waiting for a response, he added, “You should have told me your cups are so small; I would have ordered a large one if I knew.” Despite the long line that Ralph was holding up, the man behind the counter tried to be patient. Without complaint, he took away the small coffee and replaced it with a large one. As soon as it arrived, Ralph looked at it aghast and bellowed, “You call this regular? There’s not enough cream!” The man behind the counter, who only moments ago was cheerful was now upset and sarcastically replied, “Yes, for MOST people, this is regular, but if you INSIST, I’ll put in more cream. Perhaps next time you may want to ask for DOUBLE cream!” I was next, so I got my coffee and joined Ralph at the table. “See,” he told me, “what did I say to you? People are rude.” Yes, in Ralph’s world, people ARE rude, but what he does not realize is he makes them so.

*8. A particularly pernicious effect of ‘negativitis’ is that it sets one up for the mentality of a victim. Those with a woe-is-me attitude sit around in misery, waiting to be rescued.* But they wait in vain because no one can rescue them from their own attitude. They are the only ones who can change it. And until they do so, they are condemned to continue suffering.

9. Another adverse effect of negativity is that it sets one up for the magic-bullet-syndrome. That is, the victim of ‘negativitis’ spends their time looking for a quick, easy fix, when none exists. By denying a fundamental law of life that states anything worthwhile requires effort to achieve, they achieve nothing. They won’t make progress until they realize that nothing in life is free. They’ve got to be willing to do what it takes to get what they want.

10. Also, *beware of the fact that negative people attract other complainers. Because those who live in a world of doom and gloom alienate others, they have no choice but to look for other negative people to associate with. They then feed off one another and get locked in a clique of losers.*

*11. The constant stress that flows from a negative attitude also saps one’s energy, focus, and motivation. It is hardly a formula for success.

12. Also of great concern is the fact that those who refuse to work on improving their negative attitude may slide into depression, self-pity, and hopelessness*.

*13. Additionally, negative people not only harm themselves; they harm the world. They cease to make a contribution to it. Instead of helping, they spread gloom and misery everywhere. If they insist on infecting others, why not infect them with laughter? If they must carry something contagious, why not carry a smile?*

Imagine being in a small boat drifting in a river. And imagine being unaware that your boat has a motor. As long as you fail to use that motor you will be a captive of the river. You will be a prisoner without any control over your destination. Yet, the boat that we’re in does have a motor. We can use it to change course. That motor is our power of choice. All we have to do is choose to look for the good, for when we do so, that is all we will find!


As for the analysis of you ..... you write the same things in every post....its not difficult to get an opinion of the type of person you are!I read the posts because its an expat forum I like to read expat opinions/advide etc unfortunately the most posts are from a negative CITIZEN not an EXPAT which is the name of the website was brought up on previous threads. sure its nice to have a citizens opinion now and then but an unemployed citizen disgruntled with the government is not going to have the same advice to give as an expat! I never said there isn't problems in Egypt that you are trying to make it "look bad" sure there is lots and lots but its nice to see the positive things too!


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## moataz123

DeadGuy said:


> Aha, so now it's the Spanish company's problem, or whatever company it is, not people's problem...... I see.
> 
> I know it's not about the garbage, it's about how mean and racist people are, but I was just curious cause I was surprised by the figures in the "new phenomena that started 5 or 6 years ago, but we are working on it" thing......
> 
> And now I won't ask my other question that was on my mind about who's working on it, cause I can see that the foreign companies are the ones working on it
> 
> Good luck dude!


Great Mr. DeadGuy, and what you did personally in your environment to help solve this problem?? Actually I would ask you, what you did at all in ANY problem that affects your life? Or you simply stay and wait for someone to solve your problems while you are just complaining?

I will tell you what I did to solve the garbage problem in my community. Our building and all the buildings in our area hired and paid for people to clean our area from garbage, and we bought all the equipments needed, and we hired people to re-do the public garden in front of our buildings, which made everyone around us make the same. 

There are a lot of ideas, just stop complaining and do something personally please.


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## moataz123

cutiepie said:


> yes it is more difficult to obtain a visa to go out of the country but I know lots who have done it on their own without the help of a foreign wife, extremely rich family just focused driven people who know what they want and go for it!
> 
> Anyway like I said positive thinking is a great thing ....much better for you than all the negative hate felt thoughts!!


Cutiepie, no country will refuse to give a visa to someone with good work and as you said "focused driven" people. I have never been refused a visa ever in my life, and I never needed a foreign wife or show that I have money. I just show that I have future in my country and I can support myself wherever I go. Of course no country will give a visa to someone who will prefer to beg in their streets than work in his country.

I am not saying I am a wow man, I am saying that I learned that rather to complain I find solutions to the problems. Yes surprise, Egypt has problems, but if we stayed complaining and not finding solutions, then it will not work.


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## cutiepie

moataz123 said:


> Cutiepie, no country will refuse to give a visa to someone with good work and as you said "focused driven" people. I have never been refused a visa ever in my life, and I never needed a foreign wife or show that I have money. I just show that I have future in my country and I can support myself wherever I go. Of course no country will give a visa to someone who will prefer to beg in their streets than work in his country.
> 
> I am not saying I am a wow man, I am saying that I learned that rather to complain I find solutions to the problems. Yes surprise, Egypt has problems, but if we stayed complaining and not finding solutions, then it will not work.




Exactly what I wanted to prove that you do not need either.

Good for you, really pleased to see somebody on here with a positive attitude...if you want something do it... instead of constant complaining!!   and it works as you said!


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## Sofia Cooper

Beatle said:


> Hi
> 
> I agree with you. There have been so many racist comments disguised as people citing their "experience". Negative stereotyping is just a form of racism. There are good and bad aspects in all societies.
> 
> There are however many foreigners who love being in Egypt and who have said so on this site. Racism is unacceptable but I also feel sorry for those living there who choose not to enjoy the experience. I find Cairo a crazy and frustrating place at times but I also find it fun, rewarding, culturally enriching and fascinating. And I am immensely grateful to those warm and hospitable Egyptians who have helped make my time in Egypt more enjoyable and helped unravel the complicated aspects!


When i quote negative sterotyping ,,,,I am not disquising its a form or racism !!!! iam not racist ,,never have been and never will be !!!!!!!!!!!! I am one of these people who love culture and differant relgions ,,, so i suggest you dont take phrases out of context 
AND FOR YOUR INFO I LOVE EGYPT AND THE CULTURE !!! thats why iam doing my dammed hardest and willing to give up a good job here to exprience life in Egypt .......GET IT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Beatle

Sofia Cooper said:


> When i quote negative sterotyping ,,,,I am not disquising its a form or racism !!!! iam not racist ,,never have been and never will be !!!!!!!!!!!! I am one of these people who love culture and differant relgions ,,, so i suggest you dont take phrases out of context
> AND FOR YOUR INFO I LOVE EGYPT AND THE CULTURE !!! thats why iam doing my dammed hardest and willing to give up a good job here to exprience life in Egypt .......GET IT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


I wasn't referring to you! I can't even recall you using this phrase. And I definitely don't think you are racist, you seem to be anything but that which is why I respond to your questions. Not clear which post you think I am alluding to but there seems to be some misunderstanding.


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## Sofia Cooper

Beatle said:


> I wasn't referring to you! I can't even recall you using this phrase. And I definitely don't think you are racist, you seem to be anything but that which is why I respond to your questions. Not clear which post you think I am alluding to but there seems to be some misunderstanding.


Iam the one who used the phrase negative stereotyping ,it came from me ....and it wasnt a racist comment, it was a comment about Egyptian men getting a raw deal about how they are seen by some woman NOT ME ,, as i havent a problem with them like others i care not to name on here ...so i dont understand why saying negative sterotyping all of a sudden becomes a racist remark ....
why the word has to be used so loosley is beyond me ,........this is why people are reluctant to have an opinion , ,, as one phrase is taken out for context , and then is becomes a racist remark ,, i may have lots of faults but one thing i do not have is one ounce of racism in me ,,, iam know you dont know me , but iam one of the least rascist person you can meet , i hate racism


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## jojo

I dont see any racist comments as such. Theres racial awareness which is simply recognising that we all grow up in different ways, religions and cultures, but then isnt that why we become expats in foreign countries - if everyone and everywhere was the same, there'd be no point in moving??? Stereotyping is human nature and and its not an insult its an observation and of course everyone is different, but there will always be similarities

Jo xxx


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## cutiepie

Sofia,

I think you need to read back over the posts before getting so defensive nobody called you a racist in any post ...I don't see where you could have picked that up from Beatle said that some people on this site have been racist citing their experiences here she never said anything about you. Infact the post was agreeing with you, that egyptian men are stereotyped in a very bad light by certain people on this forum, which is true they are in a very unfair light.... as the saying goes "you can't tar everybody with the same brush" .... anyway hope you see nobody was calling you a racist


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## Beatle

jojo said:


> I dont see any racist comments as such. Theres racial awareness which is simply recognising that we all grow up in different ways, religions and cultures, but then isnt that why we become expats in foreign countries - if everyone and everywhere was the same, there'd be no point in moving??? Stereotyping is human nature and and its not an insult its an observation and of course everyone is different, but there will always be similarities
> 
> Jo xxx


Racial awareness is great. It is human nature to compare and contrast. And of course it's invaluable to share those experiences otherwise what's the point of a forum like this.

But when people make negative statements about all or the majority of a particular race, then that fits within any definition of racism. It would be unacceptable for people to make statements saying that all women are stupid or all Christians/Jews are ..... (insert any stereotype you wish) or of people of a particular colour. So why are people permitted to make those statements about Egyptians/Egyptian men/Muslims?

Of course to a certain extent stereotyping is human nature - but if stereotyping wasn't ever challenged then in the UK women wouldn't have the right to vote and could legally earn less than men, people could be refused jobs on the grounds of their race and it would be acceptable to discriminate against disabled people.


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## jojo

Beatle said:


> Racial awareness is great. It is human nature to compare and contrast. And of course it's invaluable to share those experiences otherwise what's the point of a forum like this.
> 
> But when people make negative statements about all or the majority of a particular race, then that fits within any definition of racism. It would be unacceptable for people to make statements saying that all women are stupid or all Christians/Jews are ..... (insert any stereotype you wish) or of people of a particular colour. So why are people permitted to make those statements about Egyptians/Egyptian men/Muslims?
> 
> Of course to a certain extent stereotyping is human nature - but if stereotyping wasn't ever challenged then in the UK women wouldn't have the right to vote and could legally earn less than men, people could be refused jobs on the grounds of their race and it would be acceptable to discriminate against disabled people.



You're right to a point, but you use negatives as your analogies! "All women are beautiful" or all Christians/jews are wonderful kinda makes it alright! The truth is as we all know, that isnt the case in every individual person! but again as we all know, stereotyping is just a generalisation and simply gives us a starting point, an image in our minds. But I do take your point. 

I just sometimes feel that we've gone too far trying to eradicate any form of differences between cultures and creeds. Some people are proud of theirs and dont want to lose their stereotypical identities - apart from blondes that is LOLOL

Jo xxx


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## Beatle

jojo said:


> You're right to a point, but you use negatives as your analogies! "All women are beautiful" or all Christians/jews are wonderful kinda makes it alright! The truth is as we all know, that isnt the case in every individual person! but again as we all know, stereotyping is just a generalisation and simply gives us a starting point, an image in our minds. But I do take your point.
> 
> I just sometimes feel that we've gone too far trying to eradicate any form of differences between cultures and creeds. Some people are proud of theirs and dont want to lose their stereotypical identities - apart from blondes that is LOLOL
> 
> Jo xxx


You are right about positive discrimination and in some societies positive discrimination is not permitted legally as it effectively becomes a mechanism by which you then negatively discriminate against others.

I am proud to be British and of those traits that seem to be very British. However I have a group of friends from a variety of different countries in Europe who assure me that British women have a reputation for not wearing many clothes (especially when going to nightclubs in winter), having blue legs (probably as a consequence of not wearing many clothes when going to nightclubs in winter), having s*x with random men, getting horribly drunk, having terrible fashion sense and having poor diets - at that point I am not usually thrilled to be stereotyped as a British woman.....


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## moataz123

Beatle said:


> You are right about positive discrimination and in some societies positive discrimination is not permitted legally as it effectively becomes a mechanism by which you then negatively discriminate against others.
> 
> I am proud to be British and of those traits that seem to be very British. However I have a group of friends from a variety of different countries in Europe who assure me that British women have a reputation for not wearing many clothes (especially when going to nightclubs in winter), having blue legs (probably as a consequence of not wearing many clothes when going to nightclubs in winter), having s*x with random men, getting horribly drunk, having terrible fashion sense and having poor diets - at that point I am not usually thrilled to be stereotyped as a British woman.....


Lol Beatle, I liked this "blue legs" part


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## jojo

Beatle said:


> You are right about positive discrimination and in some societies positive discrimination is not permitted legally as it effectively becomes a mechanism by which you then negatively discriminate against others.
> 
> I am proud to be British and of those traits that seem to be very British. However I have a group of friends from a variety of different countries in Europe who assure me that British women have a reputation for not wearing many clothes (especially when going to nightclubs in winter), having blue legs (probably as a consequence of not wearing many clothes when going to nightclubs in winter), having s*x with random men, getting horribly drunk, having terrible fashion sense and having poor diets - at that point I am not usually thrilled to be stereotyped as a British woman.....


Thats the word "reputation"!!!! and thats the problem! Its all down to the reputation thats conveyed - mainly by the media, but also by witnessed behaviour! As you rightly point out, us British women dont all wear mini skirts in the cold or have blue legs, have s*x with random men (Sadly, I'm well past all that?????), but that stereotype/reputation has been created! And its the same for other countries etc - but it isnt racism! 

Jo xxxx


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## Sofia Cooper

cutiepie said:


> Sofia,
> 
> I think you need to read back over the posts before getting so defensive nobody called you a racist in any post ...I don't see where you could have picked that up from Beatle said that some people on this site have been racist citing their experiences here she never said anything about you. Infact the post was agreeing with you, that egyptian men are stereotyped in a very bad light by certain people on this forum, which is true they are in a very unfair light.... as the saying goes "you can't tar everybody with the same brush" .... anyway hope you see nobody was calling you a racist



Well blow me over !!! i must be speaking a differant language ......when i read what i have said .....about negative sterotypying ,,then it is mentioned that negative sterotyping if a "form of racsim " ....what iam i to think .....that it is meant iam racist in what i say .......as i am new to here ,, maybe i need to learn to conform , or learn a totally differant langauge ...


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## Beatle

jojo said:


> Thats the word "reputation"!!!! and thats the problem! Its all down to the reputation thats conveyed - mainly by the media, but also by witnessed behaviour! As you rightly point out, us British women dont all wear mini skirts in the cold or have blue legs, have s*x with random men (Sadly, I'm well past all that?????), but that stereotype/reputation has been created! And its the same for other countries etc - but it isnt racism!
> 
> Jo xxxx


It is racism if people assume/state that all British women have those characteristics. There may or may not be humour in the stereotype (depending on what it is) but that doesn't mean that it is not racist to say that all British women have those characteristics. The blue leg example I used was frivolous - I am not aware of anyone being denied a job for example because of their propensity to have blue legs. I am aware that people have been denied jobs in the UK because they were not white/ they were the wrong religion/ sexual orientation etc - that's how stereotyping can lead to discrimination.

Anyway, this has all become very deep and meaningful!


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## moataz123

Sofia Cooper said:


> Well blow me over !!! i must be speaking a differant language ......when i read what i have said .....about negative sterotypying ,,then it is mentioned that negative sterotyping if a "form of racsim " ....what iam i to think .....that it is meant iam racist in what i say .......as i am new to here ,, maybe i need to learn to conform , or learn a totally differant langauge ...


Sofia, personally I haven't seen any post from you where I could think you meant a racist comment. 

So don't feel bad at all, come to Egypt, enjoy the experience (because you will), learn and live, benefit from the society and find your interests in it, and I am sure you will be happy.


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## Beatle

Sofia Cooper said:


> Well blow me over !!! i must be speaking a differant language ......when i read what i have said .....about negative sterotypying ,,then it is mentioned that negative sterotyping if a "form of racsim " ....what iam i to think .....that it is meant iam racist in what i say .......as i am new to here ,, maybe i need to learn to conform , or learn a totally differant langauge ...


I said that negative stereotyping is a form of racism not that the words themselves are racist.

And I have had a quick look back at your posts (although only skimmed them) and the only reference I can find that you made is to "negative outlook" and your words weren't used in a racist context. 

So as I said earlier, there seems to be a misunderstanding!


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## Sofia Cooper

moataz123 said:


> Sofia, personally I haven't seen any post from you where I could think you meant a racist comment.
> 
> So don't feel bad at all, come to Egypt, enjoy the experience (because you will), learn and live, benefit from the society and find your interests in it, and I am sure you will be happy.


 ... i would need to go through all of , or alot of lastnights comments,,,, and lasnight there was alot of comments made ,,,and things were discussed in great depth ,,,and for a change from boring FACEBOOK .I quite enjoyed the mental stimulation........but to be honest i come a time when i get fed up defending myself .i dont mean that in a negtive way ,,i know some comments that were made ealier was a dig at me .....do i care ?? errrrr well not really ,,, iam past worrying lol .......
Yes i iwll have all intention of making the most of living there , as i have wanted to since i lived in Libyia as a child and loved the Sahara desert .....so the culture maybe wont be too differant to what i expect .... and iam sure i iwll be able deal the Egyptian men (joke)


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## moataz123

Sofia Cooper said:


> Yes i iwll have all intention of making the most of living there , as i have wanted to since i lived in Libyia as a child and loved the Sahara desert .....so the culture maybe wont be too differant to what i expect .... and iam sure i iwll be able deal the Egyptian men (joke)


I am not sure about this Libya part, I think there is a big difference, or maybe I see it like this. I have never been to Libya, but maybe there is some similarities. 

What I know is that Egypt has it's own unique personality that was created during several thousands of years, just like any rich history country, you will find the old and new, the clean and dirty, the good and bad, the loud and quite. The country of many contradictions, a magic in many ways. But don't expect total rest, you must grab those secrets and force them to appear. If you only aim for the surface, you will only see the surface, and it's usually dusty.


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## Sofia Cooper

moataz123 said:


> I am not sure about this Libya part, I think there is a big difference, or maybe I see it like this. I have never been to Libya, but maybe there is some similarities.
> 
> What I know is that Egypt has it's own unique personality that was created during several thousands of years, just like any rich history country, you will find the old and new, the clean and dirty, the good and bad, the loud and quite. The country of many contradictions, a magic in many ways. But don't expect total rest, you must grab those secrets and force them to appear. If you only aim for the surface, you will only see the surface, and it's usually dusty.


I know Libya was and is differant in many ways,,its just the fact as a child i dreamted of Egypt and if i dont move within the next year i most probably wont do it at all !!!.......and yes i love the history but iam guilty of not studing it enough ....i had many videos as a child etc, yes i n know many good things and bad things ,,,,,good men and bad men, ....nice woman and not so nice,,,,clean and most certainly dirty ,,,nice sights and boring lool so on and so on ,,,,i may get there and really hate it ,,,but inside me is telling me i iwll enjoy ....and the reson for this is passion.....yes i have passion for the people and the country ....i have learnt alot talking to my 365 Egyptian freinds on FB ,,,,, and met some nice people whilst one holiday ....so Viva Egypt !!!:clap2:


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## moataz123

Sofia Cooper said:


> I know Libya was and is differant in many ways,,its just the fact as a child i dreamted of Egypt and if i dont move within the next year i most probably wont do it at all !!!.......and yes i love the history but iam guilty of not studing it enough ....i had many videos as a child etc, yes i n know many good things and bad things ,,,,,good men and bad men, ....nice woman and not so nice,,,,clean and most certainly dirty ,,,nice sights and boring lool so on and so on ,,,,i may get there and really hate it ,,,but inside me is telling me i iwll enjoy ....and the reson for this is passion.....yes i have passion for the people and the country ....i have learnt alot talking to my 365 Egyptian freinds on FB ,,,,, and met some nice people whilst one holiday ....so Viva Egypt !!!:clap2:


Cheers, and good luck here.


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## NZCowboy

moataz123 said:


> In Egypt it's 12 months also, the last time I checked , and yes it's a new thing that started with the new contracts singed with the privet companies (Italian or Spanish I don't remember), that didn't keep their deal due to some problems and several reasons. The situation were better than this anyway before.
> 
> But we are not talking about the garbage in this thread. Lol.


Moataz
Have to disagree moataz
Been coming to Cairo for over ten years, the garbage was much worse in the early days, on my opinion it started to improve about 4 or 5years ago, and more greatly in the last couple of years. Over Nasr City way alot of the empty sections that were used as rubbish dumps have been cleared, and the great piles of rubbish on the streets have been cleared away.


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## moataz123

NZCowboy said:


> Moataz
> Have to disagree moataz
> Been coming to Cairo for over ten years, the garbage was much worse in the early days, on my opinion it started to improve about 4 or 5years ago, and more greatly in the last couple of years. Over Nasr City way alot of the empty sections that were used as rubbish dumps have been cleared, and the great piles of rubbish on the streets have been cleared away.


Maybe yes... i just see the garbage moved from the empty sections to the asphalt and nobody cares. When you start creating awareness around you I see a lot of people follows. 

I live in ElHegaz area in Helioplis, and we started a cleaning campaign for the last 3 months that became very effective. A lot of building squares around us followed and we are trying to go more wider.


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## NZCowboy

Well done Moataz
In my opinion what needs to be done is rubbish needs to be sorted into recylables at the source, rather than the zabaala coming tipping up the skip bins, sorting the rubbish and leaving it in the street.


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## DeadGuy

I was away for just ONE night but I got back to find a huge number of posts that 90% of was interesting and useful!!

It will be a bit hard to respond to all, but in general, there are few things that I’d like to respond to, they’re not in the same thread, but it’s all connected in a way, or at least I guess they are!


@ cutiepie:
You been explaining what’s a “negative” thinking is, and I think you were trying to “diagnose” me?!  

And of course you didn’t see anything about “colonies” in the original post!! You’re too positive to see it I bet!!

I wonder what is it you think when you have to pay more for something just cause you’re not a local as a “positive” thinker?!! What occurs to your mind in a situation like that?? Or if you were offered some sexual “Favors” by an idiot cause you’re an European??? Warm hospitality?! Friendly attitude?? Or lemme guess??? You never been in a situation like this?? :confused2:


@ moataz123:
You’re trying your best to make Egypt look nice, do that as much as you like, but just don’t try to hide the ugly parts when they’re mentioned!! You can’t just fool everyone!!!! 

And you been trying your best to make it seem like I’m the ONLY Egyptian guy that can’t secure a job for some reason, or the ONLY person in Egypt that gets rejected for his visa applies!!! It’s either that or you’re really trying to seem like a “wow” man as you described it! Or was there another point of your….. Talks?? If so then I must’ve missed it!

And of course, your contradictions appear again, not just in this forum, but in the other forum about genuine “men” and let me quote you!



moataz123 said:


> Yes jojo, I am sure you are right, some restless Egyptian men keep scanning the exapt forums to find a girl with a phone number, or offer a phone number...etc. It's a disgusting behavior that wouldn't have accrued unless what they see from tourists keeps igniting their memories, if you know what I mean.


WOW! I guess I know what you mean too! It means that Egyptian males are stereotyping European females and tarring them all with the same brush!! And for you it is a reason that’s good enough to justify their weird behavior!! That was nice, that wasn’t racist at all, but it would be so racist to ask about Egyptian men though! WOW! Really! 


Then Jojo gave her opinion and said that she doesn’t think she saw “racist” comments in the way that’s being described and boy she couldn’t just walk away after saying that!


NZCowboy decided to share an experience in the other forum but again his intentions are being questioned!!! What makes anyone think that the point is making Egypt look bad???!!!!Or is it just a habit to question motives behind any post that doesn’t fulfill your standards??!!!! For God’s sake!! GET REAL PEOPLE!! It is happening! So what’s the point of pretending that it’s not??!!!!


I can’t really find any word to describe those behavior except the word CONTRADICTIONS!!!

People find it “ok” to generalize descriptions on Europeans, but they complain about generalizing facts about Egyptians!!

People START talking about Islamic cultures but then complain about people commenting on it!!

People START being racist, but then complain about others talking about their experiences for whatever reason!!

I can’t really find an explanation for what most of you people are doing! And I don’t really care to find one, it’s your own problem not mine! But just GET REAL!!!

Good luck everyone!


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## cutiepie

> I was away for just ONE night but I got back to find a huge number of posts that 90% of was interesting and useful!!


Lol how fulfilling your life must be  , away from the internet for one whole night!  ! How did you manage!!! like I'd said in the previous post if you spent less time on the internet ......... 



> I wonder what is it you think when you have to pay more for something just cause you’re not a local as a “positive” thinker?!! What occurs to your mind in a situation like that?? Or if you were offered some sexual “Favors” by an idiot cause you’re an European??? Warm hospitality?! Friendly attitude?? Or lemme guess??? You never been in a situation like this??



Haha!!! Aw your replies make me laugh so much ..... Straight back to negative parts ..depressing... moaning ....everything is bad here woe is me living in this awful country. i've said there are bad sides too and lots of problems , not everything is good no place is but since you have only lived in Egypt you only see the downsides of Egypt....
Believe me there are idiots in every country, I have travelled and lived in lots of countries, Kenya, America, Greece, etc I'm not going to let them stand in the way of me enjoying my life ...or depress me so I spend all my time worry about some idiots offering me sexual favours etc .... I have more things to do in my life than wollow in self pity!!! There are lots of idiots in Ireland does that mean Im on an Irish forum telling people Ireland is the worst place in the world ..........agh no!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I was just saying focus on the up sides of living in Egypt not ALWAYS the down sides, yes there are downsides and people need to be aware of them but not everything has to be negative. Obviously its a waste of time telling you to see postitive sides to things ...you seem to get your kicks out of writing as much bad things as you can always the negative side!

and moataz123 didnt say he's a wow man he said he is not a woe man meaning he''s not wollowin in self pity as an unemployed person complainin and doing nothin, he's enjoying his life and is proud of where he is from...


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## MaidenScotland

Lets stop with the personal insults..


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## MaidenScotland

sam311 said:


> Great , Love what you say ,As I learned in the USA where i lived most of my life . Live like indians with the indians,Meaning live like they live where ever you go .Or be an Indian with Indians meaning the Red American Indians.
> What you say is 100% right , I am a Middle eastern , My origins and my father and mother had always said learn the middle eastern way . You are an Arab never act like an American . And thats how I grew up . I love Arabs and will , I am planning in moving to HURGHADA in a few month to retire and I am sure i will love it specially Ma3 AHL MASR ELTAYIBIN.
> God Bless you and bless MASR ELHABIBA.
> Salam
> Sam311



Hi Sam

Are you saying that we should live like Egyptians? and yet you tell us your parents told you that you are an Arab and never act like an American despite you living there?

Maiden


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## MaidenScotland

sam311 said:


> I AM not saying cheat or do bad things as you maybe think that all Egyptians are bad , What i mean that you can't come to a country live there and change there people and rules , You came to Egypt and you should bay there laws and the way of living .
> Here I came to Lebanon and did not like it here , The people , life rules ETC so I am taking a real big big loss and moving on to where I think will be a better place with better people to live, Quality of life is important to me and yes I lived for over 45 years in Los Angeles and still a Middle eastern no matter what , Even though my only passport and Nationality is American and my whole family , but I am proud of my Middle eastern roots.
> Hope that answers you question.
> Regards
> sam311


I certainly do obey the law here...but just wait until you get here and see how well the drivers etc obey the law or even how the police enforce it. I do not expect to change the law or the customs... where have we expats ever said that we want to?
As you are still Middle Eastern I am still Scottish and in being Scottish I reserve the right to be treated fairly and with respect.


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## Sofia Cooper

MaidenScotland said:


> Lets stop with the personal insults..


 I am agree with you MaidenScotland ....i kinda didnt want to log on lol .....only for the fact that things i have personallly said , and without intention were totally misunderstood, or maybe deliberatly twisted, I came across this website by pure accident and was pleased to of found some useful information on Egypt , hoping it wouldnt be a biased opion, and most of it isnt, but it has kinda left me with the opinion of one sided veiws, and if you have any views of your own, unless you are of an well established expat, or you actually live in Egypt you are best to keep your mouth shut,
So i think i will only ask advice in my own thread , and leave my comments and opions to other threads well alone , as iam still puliing th knives out of my back !!! lol ........


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## NZCowboy

Sam311
You may be Middle eastern, but you aren't Egyptian, you will just be another Foriegner. The local's will be able to pick it up in a minute. As my wife says (shes egyptain) its like they can smell it. Even Egyptians who have been out of the country for a year or two, and return are treated this way. 
Everyone will be trying to just maximise their profits (no one rips you off here - lol)


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## MaidenScotland

I am surprised that no one has not jumped on the 

PS sorry Yes I lived in America but lived like an American but i did not do drugs, Go with Gays, Etc I lived the way my parents tough me , manners ETC.

But here in Lebanon No one will feel bad for you you get ripped of anywhere no matter what this is the mentality , people are Thieves number one in the world , Italy is way behind this country.

Or is it only expats complaining about some Egyptians that are considered to be racist?????


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## MaidenScotland

. I do obey the rules...


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## MaidenScotland

sam311 said:


> I DID NOT POST THIS???
> 
> Or is it only expats complaining about some Egyptians that are considered to be racist?????
> you did MaidenScotland




Sam you did indeed post it, I copied and pasted it from a previous post... and I wondered why no one had jumped on it saying it was racist.


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## jojo

sam311 said:


> trust me io did not post it . i will contact the moderator and complain.


Maiden IS the moderator

Jo xxx


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## MaidenScotland

sam311 said:


> As the guy who started this thread said if you don't like it go back to your country , Egypt is not my country but I hope that it will be my new loving country , Police and informing laws, Here in lebanon I went and bought a Drivers License so i do not go spend a few days and wait at 7 am to get one where it takes a few days , i paid 600.000.00 Lebanese pounds $400.00 to get one. What else Lebanese ID or Passport you can buy anything you want.
> There is no LAW here you are the law , What a machine gun you buy one in a second , You name it and you got it. Thats why I am moving out despite the high humidity that is disturbing my life , But if you never lived in a place like Lebanon , come and try it , You will be treated like **** . trust me , They do not like there own people so they will not like you as a foreigner , Well I lived all over the world since my dad was working as a Diplomat and traveled to many countries and so far the worst is LEBANON for me .Maybe others has a deferent looks at this country .
> But as i know that Egyptians are down to earth people , nice and friendly , And hey there are bad people all over where they will try to make an extra penny out of you and rip you off, Good and bad In Ireland. USA all over the world . But here in Lebanon No one will feel bad for you you get ripped of anywhere no matter what this is the mentality , people are Thieves number one in the world , Italy is way behind this country.
> Regards
> sam311



Sam please read this post... this is where I copied and pasted form

Maiden


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## MaidenScotland

sam311 said:


> I AM not saying cheat or do bad things as you maybe think that all Egyptians are bad , What i mean that you can't come to a country live there and change there people and rules , You came to Egypt and you should bay there laws and the way of living .
> Here I came to Lebanon and did not like it here , The people , life rules ETC so I am taking a real big big loss and moving on to where I think will be a better place with better people to live, Quality of life is important to me and yes I lived for over 45 years in Los Angeles and still a Middle eastern no matter what , Even though my only passport and Nationality is American and my whole family , but I am proud of my Middle eastern roots.
> Hope that answers you question.
> Regards
> sam311
> 
> PS sorry Yes I lived in America but lived like an American but i did not do drugs, Go with Gays, Etc I lived the way my parents tough me , manners ETC.
> Thats what i meant you just jumped the gun and when I said that I did not mean do not live like an American , But i lived like a civilized American because not sure if you lived there and know much about Americans. Hope that you get what I mean.





And I copied and pasted from here...

I am the moderator on this forum


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## MaidenScotland

Ahhh I have just realised... Sam I quoted you and wondered why no one had jumped on it, an asked if it is only expats complaining about "Egyptians that are considered to be racist?
No you didn't post is it only expats complaining about Egyptians that are considered to be racist, interesting that you thought I was saying you had and you jumped into deny it!


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## moataz123

I think things turned out to be a ridicules joke here.


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## jojo

I havent a clue what anyone is talking about ?????????? Have I missed something?

Jo x


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## DeadGuy

cutiepie said:


> Lol how fulfilling your life must be  , away from the internet for one whole night!  ! How did you manage!!! like I'd said in the previous post if you spent less time on the internet .........
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Haha!!! Aw your replies make me laugh so much ..... Straight back to negative parts ..depressing... moaning ....everything is bad here woe is me living in this awful country. i've said there are bad sides too and lots of problems , not everything is good no place is but since you have only lived in Egypt you only see the downsides of Egypt....
> Believe me there are idiots in every country, I have travelled and lived in lots of countries, Kenya, America, Greece, etc I'm not going to let them stand in the way of me enjoying my life ...or depress me so I spend all my time worry about some idiots offering me sexual favours etc .... I have more things to do in my life than wollow in self pity!!! There are lots of idiots in Ireland does that mean Im on an Irish forum telling people Ireland is the worst place in the world ..........agh no!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> I was just saying focus on the up sides of living in Egypt not ALWAYS the down sides, yes there are downsides and people need to be aware of them but not everything has to be negative. Obviously its a waste of time telling you to see postitive sides to things ...you seem to get your kicks out of writing as much bad things as you can always the negative side!
> 
> and moataz123 didnt say he's a wow man he said he is not a woe man meaning he''s not wollowin in self pity as an unemployed person complainin and doing nothin, he's enjoying his life and is proud of where he is from...





What a way to look at things :lol: 

My point was that there was a huge number of posts considering the time line, usually in such a short period of time a much less number of posts are made  but obviously you got a very interesting point of view, or should I say a wonderful imagination? 

You’re taking things into a DEEP personal level for some reason!! I won’t “wonder” why is that happening!!! I'm sure you got your reasons!! I’ll just have to deal with it like any other unfortunate “negative” situation I’ve stumbled into, will just watch and laugh! No offense!!

In your posts, you keep making it sound like you know TOO much about EVERYTHING you’re talking about for some reason! Specially when talking about “me” and my “life” :confused2: May be you do know much about few things! But you got many things wrong I’m afraid!!

I never really “knew” that the reason that people in here can’t find jobs was that people are “not looking” for jobs to be honest  but thanks for letting me know 

As for Mr. moataz123, think he could speak for himself if he had a reason to do so! And what he said was clear actually; don’t think anyone who would read his posts would miss his point, specially the posts in the other threads about genuine “men” in Egypt!! But again, I won’t “wonder” why you found it necessary to speak for him lol

And the “kicks” thing.......I dunno, it differs how people get their own kicks as you could see, some get their kicks from convincing themselves that they know “everything” about everything  But sure I’ll always have many when I see idiots being........themselves?? :lol:

Good luck!


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## jojo

For the life of me I honestly havent a clue what on earth anyone is talking about!????????

Jo


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## DeadGuy

sam311 said:


> ............................
> 
> PS sorry Yes I lived in America but lived like an American but i did not do drugs, Go with Gays, Etc I lived the way my parents tough me , manners ETC.
> ................


Hi there,

First of all sorry for editing your original post!

Just wanted to tell you that you should've just said that you were living a normal life in the States......... You made it sound like US of A is the land of the gay addicts :lol:

But to be honest with you?! So many things about your posts don't sound right for me........ No offense!!

Good luck in here dude!!


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## DeadGuy

jojo said:


> I havent a clue what anyone is talking about ?????????? Have I missed something?
> 
> Jo x


Welllllll......... Try to catch up :lol:

It all started to show how racist "some" people are.... Not all of them, just the ones who.... Got lucky enough??!

Then it turned to be a class for some amateur psychiatric analysis.....

Then it went to the Land of gays, sorry, addicted ones.....

Machine guns.....

It's an interested mix, so whatever you're looking for will be found in this thread for sure :lol:

God help the admins in this circus!!


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