# Considering Move to Cape Town frm US



## RIKKA

All,

We are considering a move from USA (we are American) to Cape Town. I have been doing business there for over a year, and am exploring taking a position with a company there. 

I am curious around several topics.

Wife and child, what are the concerns and pitfalls you can point out regarding a 10 yr old and Wife moving to CT.

Best private school, any recommendations on what the top schools are?

Great neighborhoods to consider, I will be working downtown. (prefer a yard, not apartment)

Any thoughts on what we will miss most, or have trouble adjusting to?

I guess that is a start, we are still in negotiationson this, but want to aleivate some stress on the decision to move my family to CT.

Thanks for any insight.


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## Stravinsky

You may certainly have to adjust to a different level of personal security there from what I have seen on other forums


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## Americanmade

Just respect and help the Blacks who have suffered tremendously, dont forget what has happened to them and dont get comfortable with all the racism.


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## livialen

Sorry to say racisim now goes in the opposite direction. But please, if you don't believe me, go see for yourself. If you are dark, you certainly should move to SA- great opportunities for you. If you are white like I am, if you need a job you'll need to get used to having the phone put down on you the minute they hear your voice, with the usual "Affermative Action only". No job opportunity (yet I am rather qualified) made me leave SA.


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## Michele-In-SA

RIKKA said:


> All,
> 
> We are considering a move from USA (we are American) to Cape Town. I have been doing business there for over a year, and am exploring taking a position with a company there.
> 
> I am curious around several topics.
> 
> Wife and child, what are the concerns and pitfalls you can point out regarding a 10 yr old and Wife moving to CT.
> 
> Best private school, any recommendations on what the top schools are?
> 
> Great neighborhoods to consider, I will be working downtown. (prefer a yard, not apartment)
> 
> Any thoughts on what we will miss most, or have trouble adjusting to?
> 
> I guess that is a start, we are still in negotiationson this, but want to aleivate some stress on the decision to move my family to CT.
> 
> Thanks for any insight.


Hi Rikka

South Africa's job opportunities for whites are minimal but if you already have a sound job offer you can't go wrong. There are many disadvantages to moving to SA but there are as many advantages. It all depends on your personal outlook and your heart's desire. If it is truly what you want, then i would say go for it! Adjustments would include a greater awareness of security, yes, but again, it depends in what area you live in. I live in Somerset West and the crime here is minimal. It happens yes, but is few and far between. 

Try and chat to Expats in South Africa to get a clearer picture of what you might expect. 

If i can help with anything please just give me a shout.


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## mike9999

RIKKA said:


> All,
> 
> We are considering a move from USA (we are American) to Cape Town. I have been doing business there for over a year, and am exploring taking a position with a company there.
> 
> I am curious around several topics.
> 
> Wife and child, what are the concerns and pitfalls you can point out regarding a 10 yr old and Wife moving to CT.
> 
> Best private school, any recommendations on what the top schools are?
> 
> Great neighborhoods to consider, I will be working downtown. (prefer a yard, not apartment)
> 
> Any thoughts on what we will miss most, or have trouble adjusting to?
> 
> I guess that is a start, we are still in negotiationson this, but want to aleivate some stress on the decision to move my family to CT.
> 
> Thanks for any insight.


You do not necessarily need a private school, some public schools (Ones called Former model C schools) keep equivalent standards and have great facilities at a fraction of the price. A lot of these are quite far out in the suburbs though. If you want private schools though you could consider Bishops(A top private school and also one of only 4 schools in the world that can award Rhodes scholarships to its former pupils)


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## neonoceans

Do yourself a favour . Think very carefully about your budget. South Africa is no longer cheap in Dollar terms. Your family will have to adjust to a completely different lifestyle and where you live and where you send your progny to school depends entirely on how much money you have.
You have literally zero chance of getting them into any of the top schools because there's been waiting lists for years.- But there is the American International school and the British one. There's a whole host of fairly good private schools- but forget about getting the top ones. SA residents get first dibs. Sorry.
That said there are about 4,000 Americans living in Cape Town either as residents, retirees, on work permits or as US consular employees. The US consular employees get the best selection of rental homes available in gated communities in the Southern Suburbs and if you are based in town you might want to consider the Atlantic Seaboard if you are very cash flush, or if you are not cash flush then, it's the Northern Suburbs or Southern suburbs for you. Best of luck in your decision. Leave your Paranoia at home. SA is a wonderful place to live and bring up children if you choose to make it so.
Africa is not for Sissies, but then again, Cape Town isn't really Africa...


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## Deepdiver47

Hi. Considering that this is nearly a year old let me know what you've done-doing. If you're still thinking about it I can certainly offer advice.


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## Elise

*American in Cape Town*

All,

We are considering a move from USA (we are American) to Cape Town. I have been doing business there for over a year, and am exploring taking a position with a company there. 

I am curious around several topics.

Wife and child, what are the concerns and pitfalls you can point out regarding a 10 yr old and Wife moving to CT.
BE SURE THAT YOUR WIFE WILL LEARN HOW TO DRIVE ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE ROAD HERE AND HAS A CAR. VERY IMPORTANT TO MAINTAIN A SENSE OF FREEDOM.

Best private school, any recommendations on what the top schools are?
ST CYPRIANS IS A GOOD ONE IN THE CITY - GIRLS ONLY THOUGH

Great neighborhoods to consider, I will be working downtown. (prefer a yard, not apartment)
HIGGOVALE IN THE CITY IS GREAT AS IS ORANJEZICHT - DON'T DO DEVILS PEAK OR LOWER GARDENS - MORE CRIME THERE

Any thoughts on what we will miss most, or have trouble adjusting to?
THE INCREDIBLY HIGH AMOUNT OF SECURITY YOU WILL NEED. YOU WILL ALSO BE ALMOST GUARANTEED TO BE BROKEN INTO AT SOME POINT - YOUR APT, YOUR CAR, MUGGED, SOMETHING LIKE THAT. IT MAY NOT BE VIOLENT, BUT YOU MUST BE PREPARED FOR AN INCIDENT LIKE THIS. OF COURSE TAKE ALL THE NORMAL PRECAUTIONS, BUT I WAS SHOT IN BROAD DAYLIGHT ON A CITY STREET LAST YEAR AND THESE THINGS CAN AND DO HAPPEN. SO, BE PREPARED MENTALLY FOR IT.

I guess that is a start, we are still in negotiationson this, but want to aleivate some stress on the decision to move my family to CT.
I'VE BEEN HERE 4+ YRS IN CAPE TOWN PROPER WITH HUSBAND AND CHILD - LET ME KNOW IF YOU NEED ANY MORE HELP! ELISE

Thanks for any insight.


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## Deepdiver47

*Schools*

Both my daughters, 6 and 3 (the baby starts at the end of this year) are at/going to St Cyprians. Having lived in a number of countries I found it to be one of the best schools I have ever seen. The education and culture is impeccable and, as we plan our departure, its one of the things I will miss most. Its not cheap, I think we pay about R5000 per month all in for a day schooler but it really is money well spent, simply attending an assembly in the chapel, or watching a ballet lesson makes you feel privelidged to be there. I know the waiting list in extensive, so if you want to get your girl in start applying as soon as possible. 

I'm not doing the crime thing, again, you must have got the general understanding of that by now. .


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## Unseer

Don't know if this thread is still active but here's my reply never the less.

My wife & I have been living in London for just under 7 years now. We left SA to see the world and accidentally got great jobs in London, bought a house and had a kid. Hard to argue with the economic stability of the UK right? Problem is we forgot that everything we love, everything dear to us is back in South Africa so we're going back home.

Cape Town is the place we're aiming for, I've lived there before (also lived in Joburg) and it's a nice balance of beauty (it's so beautiful it hurts), crime (better than Joburg, not as good as Knysna) and stability (SA set to grow by 4.8% in 2008). After living in London and driving the hour to work through rush hour I think Cape Town is going to be a wonderful surprise. We'll choose a school like Bishops or somewhere in Stellenbosch and live in those areas.

To answer some of your questions, the school I mentioned above is one of the best but there are a number to choose from.

Great neighbourhoods - places to avoid are the cape flats and if you don't mind driving along beautiful highways to work every day then you could choose to live anywhere in greater Cape Town, perhaps even somewhere like _Rooiels _if you really want to get away. I'd say Stellenbosch, Hout Bay, Kommejie, Vishoek, Rondebosch or Bishops Court are some. Different price ranges in there.

You'll miss your friends, we sure will. You'll also make loads more, Capetonians are a nice bunch but it's like everywhere else in the world - people gather in social groups that suit them.

I hope you guys get to live in Cape Town and as long as you keep your wits about you (don't walk in the Cape flats, stay away from dodgy areas) and rely on common sense you'll love it.


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## Juliet

*Possibly moving to South Africa*

If everyone can bare with me...I am NEW to this sight. My family has the opportunity to move to the Cape town area in the next few month. We are Americans and I am very concerned about our safety. 
I have twin daughters who are 13 that I am concerned about (as well as myself).

I have heard many good things AND bad things. If anyone can help I would greatly appreciate it. 

Thank you so much,
Juliet


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## Elise

Hi Juliet
Of course you should be concerned about safety here! One of the highest crime rates in the world. But I have friends here who have never even had a wallet stolen, then I've been here for 4+ years with 2 home robberies, 2 work robberies and a shooting (all in presumably "good" neighborhoods). I think you can be okay with the situation here if you can accept two things: no matter how careful you are, something may happen to you, regardless. And, you have to be okay with the amount of security required to live here. You have to be able to live with walls around houses, barbed/elec wire and probably at least 4 locks to get from the street into where you live. Personally, I hate that - I grew up just outside a major US metropolitan area and had plenty of freedom and one lock on the back door we often forgot to lock. But, maybe you can't find that anywhere anymore.
I think that as long as you are as smart as you can possibly be with safety - the usual "don't go wandering around at night alone" etc - and as long as you're willing to invest in security at your home, then you'll be as good as you can be. Cape Town has amazing things to offer - it is simply the most beautiful city in the world, business is excellent, great outdoor activities, wonderful private schools and the best private health care/hospitals I have ever experienced. Oh, and amazing restaurants.
You just need to decide if the value of all the good things here is better than the risk of possible crime. I think it's simple as that.
As I said we've been here almost 5 years, and will not be staying long term because of the crime (and we have a young daughter here who I don't want growing up in this particular socity). But for a few years, despite the crime, it can be a great place to stay - certainly the most memorable years you will have. Feel free to email me if you like! I can also help with specific areas of Cape Town - housing, schools, etc.


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## Deepdiver47

Well this is a turn up . . My business partner left for the UK last year to set up our 'empire' there. Happily living in the scenic Cotswolds. 

After a year they've had enough. They are coming back next month. They say there is nowhere that rivals Cape Town and knowing what they know they are going to come back and enjoy the good times. He is an astute business man, he has young children, as do I, and is well aware of the risks and benefits. 

I honestly never thought after the massive trauma of last years move (greatly motivated by the crime threat, although they have not personally been subject) they would come back, but hey, makes you think, doesnt it?


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## Deepdiver47

Also Juliet, live in a good neighbourhood, make sure you have decent security - it doesnt have to be Alcatraz! - and get your kids into good schools. the rest is common sense.


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## Juliet

*Possibly moving to South Africa*

Thank you Elise and Deepdiver for your quick responses...

Elise, due to the fact that I have young teens how capable of "spreading their wings" are they going to be? Back here in the U.S. this age would be the beginning of going out with girlfriends alone, will they be safe enough to do that in South Africa?
I love the diversity in culture that they will be able to experience but is it worth the risk to them? 

I am also concerned about how difficult it will be for me to find a job. 

There is a huge part of me that is excited at the experience that may lie ahead, but scared just the same.

Thanks again for your insight.
Juliet


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## Deepdiver47

Juliet, I have girls from my first marriage, eldest is working in London UK my 19 year old is at Rhodes university in Grahamstown in res. No worries at all . . I live in Camps Bay and the lifestyle is all you can imagine. We cant always go everywhere with our kids (my now family girls are 6 and 3) but they regularly walk around Camps Bay with our maid, walk to the shops, swings and beach.

I think that I do worry, but no more than any other parent. I think that an ever alert sense that come from 13 years in the police also helps . .

I'm pretty sure that the job thing is going to be difficult, though.


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## Juliet

*possibly moving to South Africa*

Deepdiver, thank you once again for your response...Much appreciated.
Still wondering though how you keep two 13 year old curious girls safe in such a seemingly hostile environment?!
How do they get to explore their youth if they are scared to death to go anywhere (or I am to scared to let them)?!

I have been reading how difficult it is for expats to find work if they are not directly going to a place within S.A. I am a licensed massage therapist here in the states and was hoping to continue my work if we were to move. What obstacles must I get by to do so?

Another question... How prevalent is the HIV/AIDS epidemic and do we need to be overly cautious with this as well?

What are good areas/safer areas around Cape Town to live in?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Juliet


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## Deepdiver47

Hi Juliet. I'll answer what I can . .

You can keep them as safe as anywhere else, I think. You can coccoon them and not allow them to experience anything and they will be safe and fine, or allow them some room to experience life _or_ let them do what they want and they may grow up well enriched, or may not grow up at all! I think my point is that its a trade off, and not really any more a trade off here than anywhere else. It has a lot to do with the area. We live in a great residential area. Its not crime free but there are no gangs, violence or street crime. Most crime in our area is what would be termed petty house breaking. There is a high school here in Camps Bay and the kids wander into school, out, onto the beach after school, catch taxis home, it all seems pretty normal. I do know that there are bad areas, obviously, but not close to here and, in fairness, that been the same everywhere I have lived. Just dont go there. Duh . .

HIV/AIDS is an issue, but more in the townships, black population - no, thats not right - more low socio/economic groups. You have to teach your kids the basics - think carefully about sex. NO unprotected sex EVER. EVER! I've been here for nearly twenty years, own a large company with a lot of employees and the only person I've ever personally known die of aids was a friend from New York . .

There are lots of good and safe areas. You would have to get here and see what suits your budget. I have managers in all income brackets and they have all found good places to live with good schools nearby. 

Your first few months would be the most telling - you'd probably all want to go and explore new places together, so the excitement and 'newness' would be the driving factor. After that when the girls want to go places on their own it would become more telling. You probably take them, hang around somewhere nearish, (everyone has cellphones) and pick them up when they are done. This, if (it should) all goes well, relaxes a bit over time. 

Again, IT IS NOT crime free. houses are broken into, cars are hijacked, people killed for a phone or a wallet. but it is very demographic and geographic. I am careful but live a full life. You could too.


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## Juliet

*possibly moving to South Africa*

So it sounds to me as though it is all common sense and things that you might experience ANYWHERE you live. I do appreciate your time and input. 
Are there particular areas around Cape Town that you would suggest as good places to live/raise a family?

Also...What about the "job" prospects for myself?

We are hoping to come for a visit in the next few weeks and see/experience everything first hand.

Thanks again,
Juliet


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## mike9999

Good areas depending upon your budget would be Bishops court, Constantia, Camps Bay(If you prefer a fashionable beach area). You could also consider the Northern suburbs, these areas are more Afrikaans, but for example Durbanville has one of the lowest crime rates in Cape Town.


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## Juliet

*Possible move to Cape Town*

I will add Bishops Court, Constatia and Camps Bay to my already existing list of: Newland, Green Point and Sea Point.

We are going to be arriving in Cape town on the 17th of this month and staying for the week. My hope is to EXPLORE the different areas and check out the schools. 
If we make the decision to move to South Africa I will be putting my 13year old twin daughters in a private american international school, does anyone have a suggestion as to which ones are good? I hope to find one not to far from where we will be living??!!

Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Is there any other places we should visit while we are in the country? 

Thanks for all of your help expats!!!

Juliet


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## mike9999

As far as I know there is only one American school in Cape Town and it is incredibly expensive for what it is. YOu could also consider some of the prestigious private schools modelled more on the british education system that will offer a superior education.


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## RIKKA

Juliet said:


> I will add Bishops Court, Constatia and Camps Bay to my already existing list of: Newland, Green Point and Sea Point.
> 
> We are going to be arriving in Cape town on the 17th of this month and staying for the week. My hope is to EXPLORE the different areas and check out the schools.
> If we make the decision to move to South Africa I will be putting my 13year old twin daughters in a private american international school, does anyone have a suggestion as to which ones are good? I hope to find one not to far from where we will be living??!!
> 
> Any help would be greatly appreciated.
> Is there any other places we should visit while we are in the country?
> 
> Thanks for all of your help expats!!!
> 
> Juliet



We moved in March 2008 and have learned a great deal. Like you 2 issues were at the top of our "list", schools and where to live. 

Schools:
We initially enrolled our daughter in a private school in the city. We wanted her to have a new experience and the school has an excellent reputation. For us that turned out to be a huge mistake, the curriculum was an issue since she had the material 2 years prior in the US. In addition, our daughter is outgoing, but had difficulty being accepted and making friends. 
We decided to move her to the American School in Constantia and it has made a huge difference. The curriculum is in line with where she was in the US, she has made friends and is happy. I now realize that for us the move to another country was enough change and sending her to a familiar school has made life better for her.

Housing:
Security was (and of course still is) an issue so we decided to live in a gated community. We live in Higgovale which is close to my husband's work and it was close to our daughter's school. Now I take her to school, but I don't mind the drive. It takes 20 minutes to get there. Also, in the US we could leave our daughter home alone and we didn't want her to lose that independence here. Since we're in a gated community she can stay home while I run to the store and I know she's safe. 
We got a tremendous amount of advice, areas that are windy or rainy, safe, etc. There were times I felt overwhelmed with so many opinions- find a good realtor that can work with you to find the right home.

Cape Town is an amazing city and we're glad we decided to move here. I knew it would be difficult, and it has presented challenges I didn't consider before but they are all so minor that it would seem silly to list (such as Telkom taking 2 months to connect our home phone and another 2 months to get internet). My husband's contract is for 3 years and then we plan on returning to the US. We intend to make to most of our time here traveling, meeting new people and enjoying a different culture.

Best wishes to you and your family.


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## Elise

Juliet said:


> I will add Bishops Court, Constatia and Camps Bay to my already existing list of: Newland, Green Point and Sea Point.
> 
> We are going to be arriving in Cape town on the 17th of this month and staying for the week. My hope is to EXPLORE the different areas and check out the schools.
> If we make the decision to move to South Africa I will be putting my 13year old twin daughters in a private american international school, does anyone have a suggestion as to which ones are good? I hope to find one not to far from where we will be living??!!
> 
> Any help would be greatly appreciated.
> Is there any other places we should visit while we are in the country?
> 
> Thanks for all of your help expats!!!
> 
> Juliet


Like someone else just said, I think if you can manage to live in Higgovale and send your kids to the American school in Constantia that would be ideal. One other option (about the same commute time) is to live in Llandudno or Camps Bay. All three of those places (Higgovale, Llandudno, Camps bay) are considered the safest and of course also the most expensive. Just depends on what you can afford.
If you're only coming for a week I suggest you spend that entire time getting to know Cape Town and close by neighborhoods (like Stellenbosch) as I'm sure you'll need time to get over jet lag too. Let me know if you need any other info as I live in the city (originally from Minneapolis). Have fun!


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## celeste

Americanmade said:


> Just respect and help the Blacks who have suffered tremendously, dont forget what has happened to them and dont get comfortable with all the racism.


Okay I am so sick to death of hearing this kind of backward thinking! Get over yourselves, we have had a Black President for the last 14 years - yet Obama has been put on security detail for fear of assasination, yet we are what "Racists"!!! you really need to get our more. I stood in the voting line back then with black, white, yellow with pink poker dots and it made no difference back then, just like it makes no difference now! So yep we won't forget what happened, its in our history and it has made us a stronger better nation. We are not called the "Rainbow Nation" for nothing! so step out of your outhouse, and come join real world


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## celeste

Juliet said:


> I will add Bishops Court, Constatia and Camps Bay to my already existing list of: Newland, Green Point and Sea Point.
> 
> We are going to be arriving in Cape town on the 17th of this month and staying for the week. My hope is to EXPLORE the different areas and check out the schools.
> If we make the decision to move to South Africa I will be putting my 13year old twin daughters in a private american international school, does anyone have a suggestion as to which ones are good? I hope to find one not to far from where we will be living??!!
> 
> Any help would be greatly appreciated.
> Is there any other places we should visit while we are in the country?
> 
> Thanks for all of your help expats!!!
> 
> Juliet


Hi Juliet,

By this time you should have come and almost left SA, and heres hoping you had a brilliant time! Lots of wine testing on the way. I haven't read all the post so far, so if I am commenting on something that has already been said sorry. If you enjoyed SA and are planning on making it your home. Do you have a long term plan i.e. 3-5 years. If so maybe you should consider putting the girls in a SA school as we finish school at 18. Because as far as I am aware there aren't that many American Schools and if you move from your chosen location you might struggle to find another one and changing curriculums late in High School might prove to be a problem.


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## excapetonian

I haved lived in capetown my whole life and absolutely loved it. But sadly today there is no future in SA. Everyone that can leave is leaving, believe me. The crime is so bad that no matter where u live, it happens. We lived in an upmarket area in Westbeach and everyday someone gets hijacked or shot in their drive way. Restaurants get held up, they break your car window to steal whatever is on the passengers seat..i can go on and on. They will shot u for your mobile phone. In January my husband had enough after 3 of our closest friends were held up in their homes...As sad as i am to have left, I know we have made the right decision...Goodluck and just be vigilent at all times!


Michele-In-SA said:


> Hi Rikka
> 
> South Africa's job opportunities for whites are minimal but if you already have a sound job offer you can't go wrong. There are many disadvantages to moving to SA but there are as many advantages. It all depends on your personal outlook and your heart's desire. If it is truly what you want, then i would say go for it! Adjustments would include a greater awareness of security, yes, but again, it depends in what area you live in. I live in Somerset West and the crime here is minimal. It happens yes, but is few and far between.
> 
> Try and chat to Expats in South Africa to get a clearer picture of what you might expect.
> 
> If i can help with anything please just give me a shout.


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## brian&shiva

*massage therapist*



Juliet said:


> Deepdiver, thank you once again for your response...Much appreciated.
> Still wondering though how you keep two 13 year old curious girls safe in such a seemingly hostile environment?!
> How do they get to explore their youth if they are scared to death to go anywhere (or I am to scared to let them)?!
> 
> I have been reading how difficult it is for expats to find work if they are not directly going to a place within S.A. I am a licensed massage therapist here in the states and was hoping to continue my work if we were to move. What obstacles must I get by to do so?
> 
> Another question... How prevalent is the HIV/AIDS epidemic and do we need to be overly cautious with this as well?
> 
> What are good areas/safer areas around Cape Town to live in?
> 
> Any help would be greatly appreciated.
> 
> Juliet


 Juliet!

i'm so glad that i have had your post to read. it has been very informative. 

i'm from the states, too, and even though i currently live in LA and have lived in NYC, all this talk of security is giving me pause about moving to CT. I live in hollywood and never close or lock my back door! when i lived in nyc i never locked my door (granted i lived in a doorman-elevator building.) 

so - i choose not to live in fear, and to date: i have been blessed without ever being the victim of any kind of crime. knock on wood. 

also, i am a massage therapist (25 years) and a trauma specialist. i worry about the work-front based just on the research that i have found about the cost of massage in CT! i guess it wouldn't be hard to find clients who have experienced the trauma of crime there. 

i will keep an eye on this post, but would love to hear from you too! keep me "posted." pardon the pun... 

be well!

brian


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## lisa b

I moved here a year ago from CA. It's a great place to live and there are adjustments. My biggest issue is the slow and expensive internet access. I got a 3G card and its ok, but you buy by the bandwidth here - 1,2,3gig. No such thing as infinite bandwidth. The banks are HORRIBLE. They charge for everything, even putting money in and taking money out of your account. Criminal really. 

The private schools are good/great - they can cost up to $6000 per year but can be as low as $2000 per year. There's a great school for girls St Cyprians, a good German school (coed), and many others.

In the City Bowl (downtown) area, there's Tamboerskloof, Orangezicht, Higgovale - all very good areas. (with good schools)

I've never worried about security here. Of course there are bars on windows and doors and one has to be careful, just like any other place in the world. 

Food is great, people are nice, winters are very cold (I'm originally from Miami/Los Angeles) because houses here don't have central air/heat. So be prepared to dress in lots of layers even in your house in the winter.


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## RIKKA

Juliet said:


> Rikka....
> 
> HELLO....
> We have indeed moved to Cape Town and have been here for a month now. We are currently living in HOUT BAY.
> 
> I would LOVE to meet some other EXPATS in the area................................
> 
> Juliet



Juliet,

Meeting people is a challenge! I would love to chat off line . . . welcome to Cape Town!

Sherry


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## Juliet

Hey Everyone,

I have opted to get back on here after having not been on for quite sometime. I was finding myself getting rather sickened by all of the talk of crime and violence in South Africa. My family opted to move to South Africa and give it a try, this decision was not made hastily however!!!!

We are currently living in a GATED COMMUNITY in Hout Bay. We opted for this part of the city for several reasons, one being that my children fell in love with the INTERNATIONAL SCHOOL OF HOUT BAY and the other being that we really like the feel of a smaller community. 
We have been here for a month now...

The girls (13) are doing wonderfully in school and have already made many friends. My husbands job is going well as well. I seem to be the only one struggling. 
Not knowing my way around is difficult, and not working also adds to the difficulty of being in a new country. As a massage therapist I am not sure what I will do in regards to working Brian.....finding work here is difficult, not doubt!!! What are you doing? How long have you been here?

The country is beautiful and we are trying to take advantage of all the wonderful things to do here. Yes we are being extra cautious in regards to security, one has to be. However we are still living and exploring.

I would LOVE to meet some other EXPATS to help make the transition here easier....I am in need of suggestions for stores, activities, etc...

Juliet


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## Juliet

Hello Sherry.....

Would also LOVE to chat offline, how do we go about doing that???

Thanks,
Juliet


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## Martinw

Juliet said:


> Hey Everyone,
> 
> I have opted to get back on here after having not been on for quite sometime. I was finding myself getting rather sickened by all of the talk of crime and violence in South Africa. My family opted to move to South Africa and give it a try, this decision was not made hastily however!!!!
> 
> We are currently living in a GATED COMMUNITY in Hout Bay. We opted for this part of the city for several reasons, one being that my children fell in love with the INTERNATIONAL SCHOOL OF HOUT BAY and the other being that we really like the feel of a smaller community.
> We have been here for a month now...
> 
> The girls (13) are doing wonderfully in school and have already made many friends. My husbands job is going well as well. I seem to be the only one struggling.
> Not knowing my way around is difficult, and not working also adds to the difficulty of being in a new country. As a massage therapist I am not sure what I will do in regards to working Brian.....finding work here is difficult, not doubt!!! What are you doing? How long have you been here?
> 
> The country is beautiful and we are trying to take advantage of all the wonderful things to do here. Yes we are being extra cautious in regards to security, one has to be. However we are still living and exploring.
> 
> I would LOVE to meet some other EXPATS to help make the transition here easier....I am in need of suggestions for stores, activities, etc...
> 
> Juliet



I think my neck is staring to hurt with me shaking it so much when I read about everyone trying to talk so positively about SA. I do not know if I should cry, laugh or just pray for you all. Saying you are sickened of reading about all talk of the crime and violence. Isnt that what all of you are living amongst - crime and violence. I was sickened by having to be around filth in the streets, smell of foul urinating areas as anywhere is the "masses'" toilets, having to live in fear of women in your life possibly getting raped etc. And you are all happy there living in"gated communities - asif that will keep you safe" and living like prisoners in your own house. Obviously you havent yet realised that there are places in the world where you can allow your kids to play on the unfenced front lawn, celebrate New Year having a braai with no worries, going away camping and sleeping in a tent in mother nature without any worries and taking your wife and kids for a stroll at 10pm at night in the holidays, without any fear whatsoever. Oh I am sorry, I forgot that you guys over there do these things like I do them here in Western Australia - Silly me. Why is it that you guys are tired of evryone talking about the crime and violence in South Africa - What else is left - I would rather remember it the way it used to be - Can only imagine what the cities look like now - I am sure the local landfill site over here prob looks and smells better too. Have all of you people dropped your standards to such a level that you can be happy living amongst filth. Well maybe then it is better that you stay there, and not bring the low accepted standards to Australia - This in not intended to a specific person but rather everyone on these posts that are so "inlove with South Africa" a country thast you have been in for how long - I lived there for 31 years and yes it was hard to leave, but luckily "all our black friends trying to break into my house and possibly try to rape my wife" made my choice very easy in the end. And what a good choice that was. Nice clean beaches, nice weather. So what if there isnt all these pretty mountains. Is that all life is about for you guys? ****** the woman and children, it is such a beautiful country and such beautiful mountains. Well I hope those mountains are going to come and help you when your liitle black friends break into your house, like they do every night and day and rape your wives and daughters, make you watch and then torture you with irons, plastic or whatever savage mehtod they use. WOW such excitement - Wish i was there to show my two lovely little daughters what excitement in life is. "maybe the boring camping, spending carefree weekends with their mum and dad, visiting waterthemeparks etc is njust not the way to live a fullfilling life!!!!
Enjoy your life in SA, and we will see how long you can go without crime affecting you or your family(for your and everyone elses I sincerely hope it never happens to you but there is this one saying/questions - Do bears sh..... in the woods - And we all know the answer to that one.

Oh yes I forgot I am obviously just another sour Afrikaner that ran away and do not know anything about South Africa. I did not have a good job, house etc and was just jealous and a coward - thats prob what most of you will think. All I can say is I might pray for you, but as you choose to live and love it there there is prob no point.


----------



## excapetonian

Martinw said:


> I think my neck is staring to hurt with me shaking it so much when I read about everyone trying to talk so positively about SA. I do not know if I should cry, laugh or just pray for you all. Saying you are sickened of reading about all talk of the crime and violence. Isnt that what all of you are living amongst - crime and violence. I was sickened by having to be around filth in the streets, smell of foul urinating areas as anywhere is the "masses'" toilets, having to live in fear of women in your life possibly getting raped etc. And you are all happy there living in"gated communities - asif that will keep you safe" and living like prisoners in your own house. Obviously you havent yet realised that there are places in the world where you can allow your kids to play on the unfenced front lawn, celebrate New Year having a braai with no worries, going away camping and sleeping in a tent in mother nature without any worries and taking your wife and kids for a stroll at 10pm at night in the holidays, without any fear whatsoever. Oh I am sorry, I forgot that you guys over there do these things like I do them here in Western Australia - Silly me. Why is it that you guys are tired of evryone talking about the crime and violence in South Africa - What else is left - I would rather remember it the way it used to be - Can only imagine what the cities look like now - I am sure the local landfill site over here prob looks and smells better too. Have all of you people dropped your standards to such a level that you can be happy living amongst filth. Well maybe then it is better that you stay there, and not bring the low accepted standards to Australia - This in not intended to a specific person but rather everyone on these posts that are so "inlove with South Africa" a country thast you have been in for how long - I lived there for 31 years and yes it was hard to leave, but luckily "all our black friends trying to break into my house and possibly try to rape my wife" made my choice very easy in the end. And what a good choice that was. Nice clean beaches, nice weather. So what if there isnt all these pretty mountains. Is that all life is about for you guys? ****** the woman and children, it is such a beautiful country and such beautiful mountains. Well I hope those mountains are going to come and help you when your liitle black friends break into your house, like they do every night and day and rape your wives and daughters, make you watch and then torture you with irons, plastic or whatever savage mehtod they use. WOW such excitement - Wish i was there to show my two lovely little daughters what excitement in life is. "maybe the boring camping, spending carefree weekends with their mum and dad, visiting waterthemeparks etc is njust not the way to live a fullfilling life!!!!
> Enjoy your life in SA, and we will see how long you can go without crime affecting you or your family(for your and everyone elses I sincerely hope it never happens to you but there is this one saying/questions - Do bears sh..... in the woods - And we all know the answer to that one.
> 
> Oh yes I forgot I am obviously just another sour Afrikaner that ran away and do not know anything about South Africa. I did not have a good job, house etc and was just jealous and a coward - thats prob what most of you will think. All I can say is I might pray for you, but as you choose to live and love it there there is prob no point.


I know exactly what you mean when you say your neck is sore from shaking your head. I have lived in South Africa for over 36 year and loved it, but last year it got so bad, that i was scared to even leave my house and come back home - how pathetic is that. But when I think about it, I guess I had good reason. Firstly my neighbour was followed home from the 7/11 and was highjacked outside his house by 4 black men at 7.30pm...thankfully he and his 2 young daughters were not harmed physically but a year later they still see their psychologist. My best friend was help up by 6 black men on Halloween, simply because her kids ran out and forgot to close the gate (slam lock...all southafrican will know the kind). She her husband, another couple and her eldest daughter lay on the floor for 2 hrs while they ransacked her house. The kids ofcourse came back full of smiles which were wiped off their faces...they joined the rest on the floor lying face down...oh yes, my dad was held up twice, once at fIRST national Bank and another time while cashing up. My moms friend was strangled and i can go on and on and on....Finally we made the hard decision to leave - hard because its what we knew, our social life was there etc..but today, my kids ride their bikes outside,play in the park, my lounge door is left open and we sleep peacefully.....and our house doesnt look like a jailhouse..We live in the south of france and wow..what freedom! By the way, to the lady in houtbay...how is the squatter camp..any bigger??? May your car never break down onroute home..take care and always be vigilent...would never wish u or your family any harm...but please dont live with Blinkers on! Goodluck.


----------



## Martinw

excapetonian said:


> I know exactly what you mean when you say your neck is sore from shaking your head. I have lived in South Africa for over 36 year and loved it, but last year it got so bad, that i was scared to even leave my house and come back home - how pathetic is that. But when I think about it, I guess I had good reason. Firstly my neighbour was followed home from the 7/11 and was highjacked outside his house by 4 black men at 7.30pm...thankfully he and his 2 young daughters were not harmed physically but a year later they still see their psychologist. My best friend was help up by 6 black men on Halloween, simply because her kids ran out and forgot to close the gate (slam lock...all southafrican will know the kind). She her husband, another couple and her eldest daughter lay on the floor for 2 hrs while they ransacked her house. The kids ofcourse came back full of smiles which were wiped off their faces...they joined the rest on the floor lying face down...oh yes, my dad was held up twice, once at fIRST national Bank and another time while cashing up. My moms friend was strangled and i can go on and on and on....Finally we made the hard decision to leave - hard because its what we knew, our social life was there etc..but today, my kids ride their bikes outside,play in the park, my lounge door is left open and we sleep peacefully.....and our house doesnt look like a jailhouse..We live in the south of france and wow..what freedom! By the way, to the lady in houtbay...how is the squatter camp..any bigger??? May your car never break down onroute home..take care and always be vigilent...would never wish u or your family any harm...but please dont live with Blinkers on! Goodluck.



It is hard to leave everythingh you knew and love behind, but that is just one of those things. I just think more of us should start telling people how it really is and use the harsh language(not swear or anything) because isnt that how all those crimes are? I dont always want to go on about it, because I could happily just forget about it and carry on with my life in Western Australia, which I am doing anyway, but also feel the need to let people and maybe the rest of the world know what is happening over there, If enough of us dio it maybe the world will sit up and takle notice, and to all those"boers" who call us cowards etc. maybe they can thank us one day, because maybe people like us in "our new countries" are making the world aware of the violence and crimes there. Who knows maybe one day. I prob would not go back even if it did come right, because my children are becoming real Aussies, but we will always feel connected to "the White South African people"


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## LaKy

Are there any American schools in Cabinda, Africa?


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## Halo

Yup, I would love my kids to grow up in a gated community..... Google'ing now. :eyebrows:


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## Daxk

Sorry, canot resist, I live in a gated community too.
there are gates to keep the cattle in, gates for the horses and sheep.
I have gates too, and when I first moved in here I used to close them at nights.

They are now rusted open.

Juliet, I understand that it an adventure, you go where husband does and thats where the opportunity is at the moment as it is easier for Companies to get past the AA regs by hiring an Expat (who will impart skills and leave) than to hire a white face.

Enjoy, it is a beautiful Country and dont let your guard down for a second.
its easy to become complacent.
It took them 53 years to find me,I made many mistakes, one was at the wrong time, it was life changing.


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## BBJ

*I would think again!*

Unless you live in a really violent part of Baghdad and wear T-Shirts with pictures of George W on them, you cannot possibly move to a worse area of the world. South Africa is THE most violent country in the world that is not at war. In fact even some countries currently at war have a lower mortality rate:

21,553 murders 1st of 49 countries
31,918 murders with firearm 1st of 36 countries
52,425 rape 2nd of 50 countries and due to 5% being reported

If you have female family of any description, consider this; most survey groups believe that only 5% of Rapes are reported in South Africa, this is due to A) apathy because nothing gets done and B) The police might rape you too. If you calculate the true figure that 5% really represents it is closer to TWO MILLION a year, and now the animals are starting to Rape men too, so don't think anyone is safe. There are approximately 22 million women in South Africa, SO.... in about 11 years every woman in the country. THIS IS NOT FANTASY, these are the figures. You are a statistic waiting to happen. I've lost three friends there.... DEAD. I lived in Cape Town for 15 years, and cannot count the hijacks, killings, rapes, house break-ins I have been witness to and I lived on a golf estate with biometric access.

Do yourself a favour my friend take a look at your loved one tonight, and imagine the type of animals that live in SA. 

NationMaster - South African Crime statistics


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## guojian53

I have heard how much you dislike what South Africa is. I am familiar with what you've said. 

Question, did you live in the Western Cape? Your perspective is based upon which region where you lived?

Just curious.



Martinw said:


> I think my neck is staring to hurt with me shaking it so much when I read about everyone trying to talk so positively about SA. I do not know if I should cry, laugh or just pray for you all. Saying you are sickened of reading about all talk of the crime and violence. Isnt that what all of you are living amongst - crime and violence. I was sickened by having to be around filth in the streets, smell of foul urinating areas as anywhere is the "masses'" toilets, having to live in fear of women in your life possibly getting raped etc. And you are all happy there living in"gated communities - asif that will keep you safe" and living like prisoners in your own house. Obviously you havent yet realised that there are places in the world where you can allow your kids to play on the unfenced front lawn, celebrate New Year having a braai with no worries, going away camping and sleeping in a tent in mother nature without any worries and taking your wife and kids for a stroll at 10pm at night in the holidays, without any fear whatsoever. Oh I am sorry, I forgot that you guys over there do these things like I do them here in Western Australia - Silly me. Why is it that you guys are tired of evryone talking about the crime and violence in South Africa - What else is left - I would rather remember it the way it used to be - Can only imagine what the cities look like now - I am sure the local landfill site over here prob looks and smells better too. Have all of you people dropped your standards to such a level that you can be happy living amongst filth. Well maybe then it is better that you stay there, and not bring the low accepted standards to Australia - This in not intended to a specific person but rather everyone on these posts that are so "inlove with South Africa" a country thast you have been in for how long - I lived there for 31 years and yes it was hard to leave, but luckily "all our black friends trying to break into my house and possibly try to rape my wife" made my choice very easy in the end. And what a good choice that was. Nice clean beaches, nice weather. So what if there isnt all these pretty mountains. Is that all life is about for you guys? ****** the woman and children, it is such a beautiful country and such beautiful mountains. Well I hope those mountains are going to come and help you when your liitle black friends break into your house, like they do every night and day and rape your wives and daughters, make you watch and then torture you with irons, plastic or whatever savage mehtod they use. WOW such excitement - Wish i was there to show my two lovely little daughters what excitement in life is. "maybe the boring camping, spending carefree weekends with their mum and dad, visiting waterthemeparks etc is njust not the way to live a fullfilling life!!!!
> Enjoy your life in SA, and we will see how long you can go without crime affecting you or your family(for your and everyone elses I sincerely hope it never happens to you but there is this one saying/questions - Do bears sh..... in the woods - And we all know the answer to that one.
> 
> Oh yes I forgot I am obviously just another sour Afrikaner that ran away and do not know anything about South Africa. I did not have a good job, house etc and was just jealous and a coward - thats prob what most of you will think. All I can say is I might pray for you, but as you choose to live and love it there there is prob no point.


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## BanksInDC09

Thought I might jump in! I am AA considering moving to SA with my husband and kids (16 to 6). My husband has a career opportunity we are seriously considering. I'm curious what the experience has been like for other AA expats in SA, anyone?


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## Halo

BanksInDC09 said:


> Thought I might jump in! I am AA considering moving to SA with my husband and kids (16 to 6). My husband has a career opportunity we are seriously considering. I'm curious what the experience has been like for other AA expats in SA, anyone?


Is it also?

MA for Mexican American
IA for Irish American
SA for Swedish American
AA Asian American (now there is some confusion) - Perhaps we need to use a lower case a.


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## BanksInDC09

Sorry everyone I am a Black American, I guess my acronym was incorrect!


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## Halo

BanksInDC09 said:


> Sorry everyone I am a Black American, I guess my acronym was incorrect!


Not sure what that has to do with anything... You're an American just as people in South Africa are South African..... Once we get over these colour issues perhaps we can all sit down and have tea.


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## BanksInDC09

Halo said:


> Not sure what that has to do with anything... You're an American just as people in South Africa are South African..... Once we get over these colour issues perhaps we can all sit down and have tea.


Just seeking experiences from all different perspectives. Also new to this forum and as I read many of the post I was following suite by declaring my heritage, not intended to offend anyone.


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## BBJ

*AA, BA, etc...*

Hi Banks
As much as I knock SA for the crime and corruption, the young generation in South Africa DO and HAVE seemed to sort the race thing out. I have noticed in many parts of the world there seems to be some embarrassment or unease saying "black" or "white" or even "coloured" (yes they are very different things in SA), but it has now in SA it has got to a status where people just say what it is. I distinctly remember 10-15 years ago, you could have 20 white guys 1 black guy in a room and people would say.... er... the really tall guy with the red jumper and urm.... the different type of accent, it was really weird. Why not just say "the black guy" (or vice versa) Now apart from the no-brain extremists everyone just says it like it is. Although they do seem a bit manic about putting people in pigeon holes, you need to BE CLASSIFIED as something, English, Afrikaans, Xhosa, Zulu, Coloured, Asian etc... I suppose its a legacy of apartheid. So be ready. because you'll be quized daily about your exact provenance.


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## Halo

BanksInDC09 said:


> Just seeking experiences from all different perspectives. Also new to this forum and as I read many of the post I was following suite by declaring my heritage, not intended to offend anyone.


Totally understood but to many Americans (also no offence intended) define themselves differently..... You're American....

Your heritage..... Are you 1st gen American - i.e. were your folks from Africa?


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## BanksInDC09

Halo said:


> Totally understood but to many Americans (also no offence intended) define themselves differently..... You're American....
> 
> Your heritage..... Are you 1st gen American - i.e. were your folks from Africa?


Halo,

No actually I am one of those Americans, Blacks that can not trace my roots back past my Great Grandparents, though for some odd reason the US (non minorities) decided that it was more proper to refer to Blacks as African American, though non of use can trace a relative to Africa. Odd yes, but labels is something Black Americans have lived with dating back to the American Slave trade. My sisters and I were raised color-less, taught to know that we have just as many opportunities as anyone else. We were taught to love people and never see race, creed or color. I am the oldest (38) and my younger sister (30) lives is Paris (since 2000) is now married to a New Zealander. The youngest is living here in the States and married to a non minority. I do have a hard time calling people White or Asian or what ever, just feels like I am being rude. That's my blurb. I am just trying to get a feel for what to expect. I've imagined the possibility of living abroad; my sisters and I have all shared that yarning for life outside the US. The idea is wonderful and I would not second guess it if my husband and I did not have children but sense we do I need to consider all factors. I here both good and bad things about SA, just trying to weed out the emotion and find the facts.


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## Halo

BanksInDC09 said:


> Halo,
> 
> No actually I am one of those Americans, Blacks that can not trace my roots back past my Great Grandparents, though for some odd reason the US (non minorities) decided that it was more proper to refer to Blacks as African American, though non of use can trace a relative to Africa. Odd yes, but labels is something Black Americans have lived with dating back to the American Slave trade. My sisters and I were raised color-less, taught to know that we have just as many opportunities as anyone else. We were taught to love people and never see race, creed or color. I am the oldest (38) and my younger sister (30) lives is Paris (since 2000) is now married to a New Zealander. The youngest is living here in the States and married to a non minority. I do have a hard time calling people White or Asian or what ever, just feels like I am being rude. That's my blurb. I am just trying to get a feel for what to expect. I've imagined the possibility of living abroad; my sisters and I have all shared that yarning for life outside the US. The idea is wonderful and I would not second guess it if my husband and I did not have children but sense we do I need to consider all factors. I here both good and bad things about SA, just trying to weed out the emotion and find the facts.


Excellent - So you're an American.... I think we can all trace our roots back to 6 African Tribes.... so our Melanin content should not get in the way of our character.

SA is a good place but be warned that things are changing and why you would want to leave the USofA for SA - I have no idea...

If you talk African roots you need to go to Central Africa as South Africa history especially down south where there were no African Tribes (at time of discovery) are all about the Bushman/Hottentot and Strantloopers who were small, light brown skinned folk.


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## BanksInDC09

Halo said:


> Excellent - So you're an American.... I think we can all trace our roots back to 6 African Tribes.... so our Melanin content should not get in the way of our character.
> 
> SA is a good place but be warned that things are changing and why you would want to leave the USofA for SA - I have no idea...
> 
> If you talk African roots you need to go to Central Africa as South Africa history especially down south where there were no African Tribes (at time of discovery) are all about the Bushman/Hottentot and Strantloopers who were small, light brown skinned folk.


I would love to live in Paris with my sister but this is not about dreams, but due to a career opportunity of my husbands that we are seriously considering.


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## Halo

BanksInDC09 said:


> I would love to live in Paris with my sister but this is not about dreams, but due to a career opportunity of my husbands that we are seriously considering.


If you are paid in $'s, can live in the Western Cape and can leave at any-time... its worth considering.


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## BBJ

Hi Guys, Strange coming from a white guy I suppose, but.... when you talk about the Bushmen, Hottentot (an English invention during Victorian times due to the region) and Strantloopers (there is also a great restaurant on the beach with the same name) you are talking about the San peoples, and it is thought that these people could be direct decendents of us all (don't tell the AWB), but now it is becoming clear that two distinct groups rose one after the other. One small lighter skinned (San) one bigger more athletic and darker (these guys came later) Basically what it is today Xhosa and Zulu (sort of). The San didn't seem to make the great treks as they are still to be found in Northern Namibia, southern Angola, western Zim, southern Zam. The slave trade was centred on two coasts; East and West Africa. The Arab Slaver traders concentrated on Dar es Salaam, Madagascar, Mozambique, etc.. but the white slavers middle western africa, Senegal Ghana, Ivory Coast etc.. So 90% of black guys in the US are decended from the tribes around these regions. I have for some time now been trying to isolate a DNA strand in order to recognise this provenance (it does exist, its just very difficult to find). My reason... I own a fairly large tourism and land company, and wanted to offer a service (make some profit). 

To a degree whites have the benefit of being able to trace a name, (although thats only good for a few generations anyway) but blacks in America lost their true names due to the slavery practises. So I thought what IF we could take DNA and find exactly what tribes and areas African Americans come from, imagine it, take a swab, within 2 weeks you are most likely from the Yoruba tribe in Souther Nigeria, would you like to go on a holiday to meet them? I'm almost there guys, I think its a great idea, but the DNA science is currently lacking, but it will come very soon.

Ex President Nelson Mandela did the swab test and it turned out he is descended from the earliest inhabitants of Africa, the San people. Their mitochondrial DNA (mtiDNA) contains the earliest genetic print of all human beings, called L1. He also is descended from a group of Africans from the Great Lakes region in East Africa. South Africa's African groups mainly originated from the Great Lakes area and moved down along the east coast to settle in South Africa.

I think African Americans would be exactly the same as all the Irish, Scottish etc... would love to see where they came from. What do you think?


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## BanksInDC09

BBJ said:


> Hi Guys, Strange coming from a white guy I suppose, but.... when you talk about the Bushmen, Hottentot (an English invention during Victorian times due to the region) and Strantloopers (there is also a great restaurant on the beach with the same name) you are talking about the San peoples, and it is thought that these people could be direct decendents of us all (don't tell the AWB), but now it is becoming clear that two distinct groups rose one after the other. One small lighter skinned (San) one bigger more athletic and darker (these guys came later) Basically what it is today Xhosa and Zulu (sort of). The San didn't seem to make the great treks as they are still to be found in Northern Namibia, southern Angola, western Zim, southern Zam. The slave trade was centred on two coasts; East and West Africa. The Arab Slaver traders concentrated on Dar es Salaam, Madagascar, Mozambique, etc.. but the white slavers middle western africa, Senegal Ghana, Ivory Coast etc.. So 90% of black guys in the US are decended from the tribes around these regions. I have for some time now been trying to isolate a DNA strand in order to recognise this provenance (it does exist, its just very difficult to find). My reason... I own a fairly large tourism and land company, and wanted to offer a service (make some profit).
> 
> To a degree whites have the benefit of being able to trace a name, (although thats only good for a few generations anyway) but blacks in America lost their true names due to the slavery practises. So I thought what IF we could take DNA and find exactly what tribes and areas African Americans come from, imagine it, take a swab, within 2 weeks you are most likely from the Yoruba tribe in Souther Nigeria, would you like to go on a holiday to meet them? I'm almost there guys, I think its a great idea, but the DNA science is currently lacking, but it will come very soon.
> 
> Ex President Nelson Mandela did the swab test and it turned out he is descended from the earliest inhabitants of Africa, the San people. Their mitochondrial DNA (mtiDNA) contains the earliest genetic print of all human beings, called L1. He also is descended from a group of Africans from the Great Lakes region in East Africa. South Africa's African groups mainly originated from the Great Lakes area and moved down along the east coast to settle in South Africa.
> 
> I think African Americans would be exactly the same as all the Irish, Scottish etc... would love to see where they came from. What do you think?



WOW that would be exciting!!!! Can't tell from my profile pic but I am CONSTANTLY mistaken for a foreigner in the USA; until I open my mouth of course lol (very distinct nasally dialect). It is funny to see people I’ve spoken to numerous times and when we have met for the first time in person, you can just see they were not expecting this black girl! I once had a man from some African or Island decent yell at me in a Pharmacy insisting that I was from his homeland. I tried to tell this dude that I was US born and raised, middle America, Black nothing more nothing less. He was not convinced. He walked away shaking his head in discus, that was kind of shocking. We have these restaurants in Michigan call Pita Cafe, small chain. My sister is a vegetarian and loves the food and, bragged on it so well that I had to try. Never been in the restaurant before this time so being naive as I am I assumed that Pita Café was owned by Arabs of some decent. I walked in am my mouth fell open, literately. I thought I was staring back at my twins. Of course the young ladies all started rambling I a language I could not begin to make out. Then one approached me and speaking in the language I was so ashamed that I could not communicate. She realized that I was not from her country and she apologized in English. Recently at a Pancake Restaurant in the DC area a family that I believe may have been Semolina started at me whispering back and forth the entire time we were dinning. My oldest realized it and told me Mom they think you are Semolina and you sold out an married a guy that looks part Spanish/Black/Arab, yes my husband has a very muted look. One day he looks Arab and the next you might think he’s of a Latin decent; just imagine what my kids look like lol. So for the end of my never ending blurb; finding out what part of Africa my ancestors came from would be so incredible! Though I would be more wonderful to find out what on earth my full mix is, lol! You have to know American Blacks are multi-racial.


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## BanksInDC09

Excuse my typos, just re-read... ughh sent from my phone oops!!! Hope you get the jest of it!


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## Halo

What's amazing is how the cradle of humanity (if that theory is correct) never really progressed past the stone age while those that migrated progressed at such a rapid rate.


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## vegasboy

Halo said:


> What's amazing is how the cradle of humanity (if that theory is correct) never really progressed past the stone age while those that migrated progressed at such a rapid rate.


Halo, I want to use this as a quote somewhere else. Do you mind and want me to add your name to give credit?


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## Halo

vegasboy said:


> Halo, I want to use this as a quote somewhere else. Do you mind and want me to add your name to give credit?


Use away good sir....


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## vegasboy

Halo said:


> Use away good sir....


It's always safe saying what you want to in a form of a quote. Someone once said... Thanks


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## omarbadrin

Hi Michele.

My name is Omar Badrin. I'm a Surgical Medical Officer working in Queen Elizabeth Hospital Sabah, Malaysia. I'm very interested in moving to Cape Town to further studies and work there. Could you give me pointers on how as to proceed? From scratch, from immigrations to which is the best place to work. really appreciate your time and thought. many thanks.


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## tolk

Employment


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## tolk

*employment*



tolk said:


> Employment


Where can I find a recruiter? I am a professional planning to relocate to S.A.
Preferably, Cape Town.

Thanks


S. Tolk


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## BBJ

*Recruiter*

UrbinCity Placements ask for Nicky Steele, they are great.

[email protected]

tell her brett sent you


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## tolk

*recruiter*

Tooo too sweet of yoou!!!




tolk said:


> Where can I find a recruiter? I am a professional planning to relocate to S.A.
> Preferably, Cape Town.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> 
> S. Tolk


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## guojian53

BanksInDC09 said:


> I would love to live in Paris with my sister but this is not about dreams, but due to a career opportunity of my husbands that we are seriously considering.


Halo, the reason for leaving the old USA can be many. Those in the working class are getting hit hard, as many prices, especially medical care and transportation, are rising far beyond what we can afford. Government services like roads, sewage, garbage, and infrastructure are going down the tubes. The past administration set many policies in place that are destined to make the US into a third world country.


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## Halo

guojian53 said:


> Halo, the reason for leaving the old USA can be many. Those in the working class are getting hit hard, as many prices, especially medical care and transportation, are rising far beyond what we can afford. Government services like roads, sewage, garbage, and infrastructure are going down the tubes. The past administration set many policies in place that are destined to make the US into a third world country.


I think you have just defined Irony - While I can understand taking $'s and turning them into a lesser currency your comments about infrastructure are a little, how can I say, absurd. This is South Africa you are talking about not SA as in South Australia?
(Infrastructure is going to pot over in SA)

PS The previous Government in the USA only continued what the prior government started.... Don't forget it was old Bill that first mentions the WMD.


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## tolk

*Good Day*

I live well but poorly. Can be defined as the working poor. Wish I could wake up in Capetown. I have no fears whatsoever. The fear is living here. The crime, the violence. The CRAZY government. Im a psychotherapist with a specialty in substance abuse and depression. Also School Psychology. Ive seen my pay tumble from $125 US dollars hourly (low estimate) to barely $25,00. I took a very early retirement to get my pension out. Now, I can relocate. Find meaningful work. One issue WHAT ARE THE LAWS REGARDING PETS? I have 2 gorgeous Siamese. 

Thank you for your help--wish I was there!





Halo said:


> I think you have just defined Irony - While I can understand taking $'s and turning them into a lesser currency your comments about infrastructure are a little, how can I say, absurd. This is South Africa you are talking about not SA as in South Australia?
> (Infrastructure is going to pot over in SA)
> 
> PS The previous Government in the USA only continued what the prior government started.... Don't forget it was old Bill that first mentions the WMD.


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## Halo

tolk said:


> The fear is living here. The crime, the violence. The CRAZY government.
> Thank you for your help--wish I was there!


LOL, and you're moving to South Africa.... :rofl:


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## guojian53

Halo said:


> LOL, and you're moving to South Africa.... :rofl:


Well, I know that expatriating is like comparing apples to oranges. Re: infrastructure - for example water/sewer/garbage in the city of Seattle combined is around $200 US per month and the water quality of Seattle City water supply is gradually getting worse. From what I have read, CT water/sewer/garbage is nowhere near that high. My property tax on a modest two-bedroom home is $2000 annually, where what I have read on real estate websites is that property tax is far less in South Africa. Private medical insurance here is about $800/month with a standard 80% deductible, and I am sure that the cost is far lower in South Africa. As I said before, there ARE reasons to move to South Africa.


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## Halo

guojian53 said:


> Well, I know that expatriating is like comparing apples to oranges. Re: infrastructure - for example water/sewer/garbage in the city of Seattle combined is around $200 US per month and the water quality of Seattle City water supply is gradually getting worse. From what I have read, CT water/sewer/garbage is nowhere near that high. My property tax on a modest two-bedroom home is $2000 annually, where what I have read on real estate websites is that property tax is far less in South Africa. Private medical insurance here is about $800/month with a standard 80% deductible, and I am sure that the cost is far lower in South Africa. As I said before, there ARE reasons to move to South Africa.



Sure they are - And they normally boils down to.. Survival or the dream of a better life with Forex. These dreams are realised by many but the vast majority would not have left if they had enough in their respective country.

PS If you want to talk about water... please google SA's water purification problems, the soiled rivers etc. It makes the USA's water companies/rivers look like Evian manufacturers.


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## mman

Halo said:


> PS If you want to talk about water... please google SA's water purification problems, the soiled rivers etc. It makes the USA's water companies/rivers look like Evian manufacturers.


Yes South Africa does have its water problems but even so still has some of the best water in the world. I could be mistaken but in certain parts of USA you cant drink the water out of the tap?


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## Halo

mman said:


> Yes South Africa does have its water problems but even so still has some of the best water in the world. I could be mistaken but in certain parts of USA you cant drink the water out of the tap?


No doubt... How about Cholera?

"Cholera occurs in South Africa, predominately in rural areas, with more serious outbreaks occurring periodically. We advise you to drink water only from safe sources (e g bottled, chlorinated or boiled water), avoid ice cubes, raw and undercooked food, and maintain strict hygiene standards if travelling in rural areas. Further advice on cholera can be found on the World Health Organization (WHO) website."

from
Travel Advice for South Africa - Australian Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade

You CANNOT compare the USA to SA


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## guojian53

Halo said:


> Sure they are - And they normally boils down to.. Survival or the dream of a better life with Forex. These dreams are realised by many but the vast majority would not have left if they had enough in their respective country.
> 
> PS If you want to talk about water... please google SA's water purification problems, the soiled rivers etc. It makes the USA's water companies/rivers look like Evian manufacturers.


BTW, do you have current specific figures on cost of living items in South Africa?


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## Halo

guojian53 said:


> BTW, do you have current specific figures on cost of living items in South Africa?


Search this site as I think other members have posted rough amounts BUT its not like the USA - There is no MEAN - I you want a safe and good life in a good area - It costs.


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## guojian53

Halo said:


> No doubt... How about Cholera?
> 
> "Cholera occurs in South Africa, predominately in rural areas, with more serious outbreaks occurring periodically. We advise you to drink water only from safe sources (e g bottled, chlorinated or boiled water), avoid ice cubes, raw and undercooked food, and maintain strict hygiene standards if travelling in rural areas. Further advice on cholera can be found on the World Health Organization (WHO) website."
> 
> from
> Travel Advice for South Africa - Australian Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade
> 
> You CANNOT compare the USA to SA


If the water from the city is inexpensive enough, then a reverse osmosis system is the way to go. I know I could never afford to run an R-O unit in Seattle.


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## guojian53

Halo said:


> Search this site as I think other members have posted rough amounts BUT its not like the USA - There is no MEAN - I you want a safe and good life in a good area - It costs.


Speaking of costing, the USD v. Rand ratio has gone unfavorable lately. I hope it improves, otherwise, the RSA relocation will have to be put on hold indefinitely.


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## Halo

guojian53 said:


> Speaking of costing, the USD v. Rand ratio has gone unfavorable lately. I hope it improves, otherwise, the RSA relocation will have to be put on hold indefinitely.


Probably for the best BUT the Rand is currently over-valued and should start sliding soon(ish).


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