# Full Skill Assessment?



## n0th1ng (Feb 24, 2014)

Hi everyone, 

Could anyone please help me out with my skill assessment? I am confused about whether my skill assessment is a full one or not. I got my skill assessment when applying for TR and it's before ACS changed the rule.

All the best guys.


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## lovetosmack (Apr 22, 2013)

What visa are you applying for?


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## n0th1ng (Feb 24, 2014)

I have been on TR for 3 months. Preparing all necessary things to apply for PR (189 or 190). I havent submitted EOI yet.


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## Guest (Feb 24, 2014)

n0th1ng said:


> I have been on TR for 3 months. Preparing all necessary things to apply for PR (189 or 190). I havent submitted EOI yet.


 What temporary visa?


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## jjjychen (Jan 26, 2014)

Given what you said, if the temp visa is visa485 or similar subclass, the skill assessment you have is the full assessment. One my friend had the skill assessed last year , before ACS changed the rules, his assessment is recognized as full accessment.


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## n0th1ng (Feb 24, 2014)

Sorry for not giving enough information. I am on TR (485) now and planing to apply for PR (189 or 190). I got my skills assessed b4 the rule changed. At that time only one skill assessment for all types of visas. Since the rule changed, I have no idea if I am having a full skill assessment or not.


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## Guest (Feb 25, 2014)

You need a full assessment.


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## n0th1ng (Feb 24, 2014)

Please kindly specify your statement sir. Why do I need to have a full assessment? Is it because the one I am having not a full one? Some ppl say that it's a full one already.


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## n0th1ng (Feb 24, 2014)

Can anyone please verify if my skill assessment is full or not? I truly appreciate!


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## Guest (Feb 25, 2014)

n0th1ng said:


> Please kindly specify your statement sir. Why do I need to have a full assessment? Is it because the one I am having not a full one? Some ppl say that it's a full one already.


 Last time I looked I was not a sir! 

The information you require is easily found if you would search for it.... 

https://www.immi.gov.au/skilled/general-skilled-migration/skilled-occupations/skills-assessed.htm

_Some assessing authorities issue a provisional or subclass 485 skills assessment for recent graduates of Australian educational institutions applying for a subclass 485 visa. The primary difference is that a subclass 485 skills assessment does not require employment in the applicant's occupation at the skilled level unlike a full or permanent skills assessment. A suitable provisional *skills assessment issued for subclass 485 is not a suitable skills assessment for a Points Tested Skilled Migration visa*._


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## n0th1ng (Feb 24, 2014)

_shel said:


> Last time I looked I was not a sir!
> 
> The information you require is easily found if you would search for it....
> 
> ...


That's the rule after ACS made changes. I havent seen the new skill assessment format for 485 but I believe it's different from the old one which I am having now. Before 15 Jan 2014 when rules werent changed, ACS issued one skill assessment for all types of visas.


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## Guest (Feb 26, 2014)

Sigh. But DIBP no longer let you use the one you have to apply for skilled migration ie using an assessment obtained for a 485 regardless of when that assessment was obtained. 

What and when ACS made changes is irrelevant. DIBP are the rules you follow to apply. 

If you want to ignore those rules go right ahead. You will be rejected for not having a valid skills assessment at the time of application.


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## n0th1ng (Feb 24, 2014)

I went to 2 different MARA agencies and all of them assure me that I can apply for PR visas with my current skills assessment. I asked how could they assure that and they said they got clients had done that without any problems. 

Anyway, I am going to take PY program in case they no longer accept old skills assessments.


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## _shel (Mar 2, 2014)

Go for it, if you want to risk it its your money.


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## lovetosmack (Apr 22, 2013)

Dude.. Why ask when you aren't gonna follow what seniors suggest? I bet it's gonna get rejected because there are people who went through it and now repent a lot. Read their posts on this forum and you'll know. Good luck.


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## hnguyen (Mar 2, 2014)

Hi n0th1ng,
After looking at the letter, I am sure that it is full skill assessment.
At first, ACS intended to change the rule since 28-Oct-2013. However they decided to deferred it until 15-Jan to allow graduating student from semester 2, 2013 to have time to cope with new rule change.

If the letter did not say that it is for subclass 485, then it is the full.

_shel is correct about "A suitable provisional skills assessment issued for subclass 485 is not a suitable skills assessment for a Points Tested Skilled Migration visa." but he may not look at your attached letter. This is a full skills assessment letter not for subclass 485.


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## hnguyen (Mar 2, 2014)

To make it clear, just search for this from ACS cause I cannot post a link here:

"The ACS is choosing to implement the changes effective from January 15, 2014, which will provide certainty to those studying courses that are scheduled for completion in the final months of 2013."

So if you had applied before 15-Jan, you got a full-skill assessment.


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## n0th1ng (Feb 24, 2014)

lovetosmack said:


> Dude.. Why ask when you aren't gonna follow what seniors suggest? I bet it's gonna get rejected because there are people who went through it and now repent a lot. Read their posts on this forum and you'll know. Good luck.



Oh dear, _shel didnt suggest me anything, she basically replied to my questions based on her thoughts and what she could find from DBIP website. Being a senior in this forum doesnt mean she's right at everything. Obviously,she got strong and valid points but they are just not strong enough to convince me. Also, I learned that listening to multi-sources is never unnecessary but helps me to have a better look to prepare for everything so i went to agencies because of it. Btw, I spent quite a lot of time digging this forum to find cases similar to mine but couldn't find one so could you please show me some ppl who went thru it and now regreting?




_shel said:


> Go for it, if you want to risk it its your money.


How come you are not a Super Mod anymore? 



hnguyen said:


> Hi n0th1ng,
> After looking at the letter, I am sure that it is full skill assessment.
> At first, ACS intended to change the rule since 28-Oct-2013. However they decided to deferred it until 15-Jan to allow graduating student from semester 2, 2013 to have time to cope with new rule change.
> 
> ...





hnguyen said:


> To make it clear, just search for this from ACS cause I cannot post a link here:
> 
> "The ACS is choosing to implement the changes effective from January 15, 2014, which will provide certainty to those studying courses that are scheduled for completion in the final months of 2013."
> 
> So if you had applied before 15-Jan, you got a full-skill assessment.


That is exactly what i thought but I couldn't find any similar cases or information to confirm it. That's why I came to agencies and posted my questions here. Anyway, are you in a similar case as mine?


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## hnguyen (Mar 2, 2014)

n0th1ng said:


> That is exactly what i thought but I couldn't find any similar cases or information to confirm it. That's why I came to agencies and posted my questions here. Anyway, are you in a similar case as mine?


Yes, I am not exactly like you but very similar.
I graduated since Nov-2013 and got ACS on Dec-2013.

I have 1 friend who is exactly like my case except he got Ielts sooner than me.
He's just got PR a couple of weeks ago.


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## hnguyen (Mar 2, 2014)

Hi n0th1ng,
I cannot send private message now, need 2 more posts .
Will reply you later or you can just pm me your email address.


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## espresso (Nov 2, 2012)

Hi n0th1ng, 

it is your decision. Most COs were very accommodating in recent months after the ACS reference letter changes, i.e. first the addition of the "deemed skilled" date last April and now the 15 January change of requirements for recent graduates. It was very confusing and many people still claimed full work experience points (either because they had an old letter and weren't aware of the new rules or because they decided to risk it). For most applicants this gamble seems to have paid off, although there were a couple of refusals. 

You can go ahead, as long as you are aware that the CO has the right to refuse your visa based on the fact that you don't have the required one year of work experience post-graduation. Personally I agree with __shel_ and would not recommend it. You already hold a 485 visa so what's the rush? You could work for a year and then apply once you have the necessary work experience. Computer Networks and Systems Engineers have not been flagged either, so it is unlikely that it will be removed from the SOL... 

It is correct that we are all just volunteers here and get things wrong sometimes, mod or not. What makes me mad is when agents give bad advice or down-play the risks, because at the end of the day the risk is all yours. Generally though, I would trust a professional more than some random stranger on a forum. 

Cheers and good luck, 
Monika


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## tipzstamatic (Aug 13, 2013)

espresso said:


> Hi n0th1ng, it is your decision. Most COs were very accommodating in recent months after the ACS reference letter changes, i.e. first the addition of the "deemed skilled" date last April and now the 15 January change of requirements for recent graduates. It was very confusing and many people still claimed full work experience points (either because they had an old letter and weren't aware of the new rules or because they decided to risk it). For most applicants this gamble seems to have paid off, although there were a couple of refusals. You can go ahead, as long as you are aware that the CO has the right to refuse your visa based on the fact that you don't have the required one year of work experience post-graduation. Personally I agree with _shel and would not recommend it. You already hold a 485 visa so what's the rush? You could work for a year and then apply once you have the necessary work experience. Computer Networks and Systems Engineers have not been flagged either, so it is unlikely that it will be removed from the SOL... It is correct that we are all just volunteers here and get things wrong sometimes, mod or not. What makes me mad is when agents give bad advice or down-play the risks, because at the end of the day the risk is all yours. Generally though, I would trust a professional more than some random stranger on a forum. Cheers and good luck, Monika


Considering it's been almost a year since you got assessed, and almost 2 months since the change in ACS when you submit, id say it's too far into the timeline to insist using an assessment that's been deemed unsuitable for DIBP.

So in terms of risk, id say it's pretty high. It's negligent to ignore what's written in print for rules just because people before you were able to apply faster and get pass the new rule.


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## n0th1ng (Feb 24, 2014)

espresso said:


> Hi n0th1ng,
> 
> it is your decision. Most COs were very accommodating in recent months after the ACS reference letter changes, i.e. first the addition of the "deemed skilled" date last April and now the 15 January change of requirements for recent graduates. It was very confusing and many people still claimed full work experience points (either because they had an old letter and weren't aware of the new rules or because they decided to risk it). For most applicants this gamble seems to have paid off, although there were a couple of refusals.
> 
> ...


Thanks for your kind words Monika. Again, I am not against anyone here in this forum as well as _shel, indeed I really appreciate everyone's contribution to my matter. I am aware that CO could likely reject my visa application due to not meeting new required criteria. But the thing is I am quite tight on my budget to afford a PY program and the market is really tough to get in for a fresh grad like me (250+ job applications but 4 phone interviews). Therefore, I hold a hope that I could still apply for a GSM visa without having to have 1 yo or PY program. But yes like you said it's risky move and I shouldnt bet on that gamble as it's has been 2 months since rules changed and COs will likely not tolerate old skills assessments anymore. Btw, there are cases like mine and got rejected?


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## hnguyen (Mar 2, 2014)

espresso said:


> Hi n0th1ng,
> 
> it is your decision. Most COs were very accommodating in recent months after the ACS reference letter changes, i.e. first the addition of the "deemed skilled" date last April and now the 15 January change of requirements for recent graduates. It was very confusing and many people still claimed full work experience points (either because they had an old letter and weren't aware of the new rules or because they decided to risk it). For most applicants this gamble seems to have paid off, although there were a couple of refusals.
> 
> ...


Hi Expresso,
Could you please post link where DIBP indicate that they require "one year of work experience post-graduation"?

Actually, they've never said that, they just require a relevant letter which is not for 485 or other visa.

"You must provide from the relevant assessing authority a full (permanent) skills assessment which must be used for Points Tested Skilled Migration. The criterion by which an assessing authority undertakes different types of skills assessments is determined by the assessing authority in accordance with relevant professional standards.

Some assessing authorities issue a provisional or subclass 485 skills assessment for recent graduates of Australian educational institutions applying for a subclass 485 visa. The primary difference is that a subclass 485 skills assessment does not require employment in the applicant's occupation at the skilled level unlike a full or permanent skills assessment. A suitable provisional skills assessment issued for subclass 485 is not a suitable skills assessment for a Points Tested Skilled Migration visa."

So why ACS change "The ACS is choosing to implement the changes effective from January 15, 2014, which will provide certainty to those studying courses that are scheduled for completion in the final months of 2013.", what is certainty here and what happened to all letters issued during that time for recent graduated students? I've got 1 and it still said that "to be suitable for migration". Why not "to be suitable for migration before 15-Jan"?

No doubt here and I will definitely go for it.


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## espresso (Nov 2, 2012)

Hi n0th1ng, 

how long is your 485 valid? Sometimes a short validity (< 1 year) and TR status can be a major hindrance if you apply for jobs. Recent graduates usually need more on-the-job training, so I guess from an employer's perspective that's understandable. But don't overestimate PR status, it will not magically make the job hunt easier. 

Have you considered contacting former professors/lecturers at uni? They usually have quite a good network and a personal recommendation can grease the way in or at least get you a first interview. I don't wish to work in industry right now - PhD, oh woe is me  - but a couple of academics offered to introduce me if I change my mind. Tap into your personal network, it's the main advantage you have over newly arrived migrants. 

Cheers, 
Monika


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## espresso (Nov 2, 2012)

Hi hnguyen, 

DIBP states that they follow the current ACS rules. To quote from the 189 visa page (Points test tab): 



> Assessing authorities that have *publicly available standards* on their website that we will refer to for assessing skilled employment are: The Australian Computing Society (ACS): Migration Skills Assessment - see 'Summary of Criteria'


And ACS state in their News section: 



> *The following changes will come into effect on Jan 15, 2014:*
> Applicants with an Australian study component that wish to apply for permanent residency will *require either 1 year of relevant work experience or completion of an ACS Professional Year Program* to receive a suitable skills assessment which can be used for general migration purposes.


Applicants with old assessment letters are in a somewhat murky position. After all, the assessment letter is supposed to be valid for 2 years. If you can afford it (points-wise) I would recommend to play by the new rules. If you cannot get a PR visa in the foreseeable future otherwise and if you don't mind risking a couple of thousand Australian dollars for a chance at PR, well... I get why people would risk it. At the end of the day the case officer will decide. But don't cry foul if you end up with a refusal.


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## hnguyen (Mar 2, 2014)

espresso said:


> Hi hnguyen,
> 
> DIBP states that they follow the current ACS rules. To quote from the 189 visa page (Points test tab):
> 
> ...


Thanks for your reply.

That is true, it simply said that since 15-Jan, if you want a full letter issued by ACS, you'll need 1 year experience. Applicants here are for ACS skill assessment.

So could you please explain what is "certainty" from ACS statement:
https://www.acs.org.au/news-and-med...skills-assessment-application-process-changes
"The ACS is choosing to implement the changes effective from January 15, 2014, which will provide certainty to those studying courses that are scheduled for completion in the final months of 2013."


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## hnguyen (Mar 2, 2014)

Ok, it's cost nothing to ask ACS first cause you said DIBP follow ACS.
Here is ACS replied to my email:

"Dear xxx,

Thank you for your email.

All result letters issued before the January changes fall under our old guidelines and are considered to be full skill assessments and suitable for migration purposes.

I strongly suggest also verifying this with the Department of Immigration.

Kind regards,
xxx"

It's just cost another phone call to DIBP.


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## espresso (Nov 2, 2012)

Hi hnguyen, 

I believe that ACS only meant to give people an advance warning - the news post went up well before the 15 January change after all. Since ACS assessment takes roughly 12 weeks most of those who completed their study programs in the last months of 2013 probably would not get the result letter before January 15. 

You can risk applying with the old assessment letter or not - your call, I really have nothing to add.


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## n0th1ng (Feb 24, 2014)

espresso said:


> Hi n0th1ng,
> 
> how long is your 485 valid? Sometimes a short validity (< 1 year) and TR status can be a major hindrance if you apply for jobs. Recent graduates usually need more on-the-job training, so I guess from an employer's perspective that's understandable. But don't overestimate PR status, it will not magically make the job hunt easier.
> 
> ...


Still have 13 months left. I acknowledged that TR status would cause me problems so I didnt put it down on my resume. 4 phone interviews, 3 ended with same scenario:" whats your visa status. sorry this position is only for permanent residence."; the other one preferred candidates with more experienced. Nowadays, even junior positions still require at least 1 year exp. Thats just ridiculous!

I tried all possibilities. Lecturers absolutely won't remember me as they have thousands of students. My mentor in final project agreed to write me a reference letter but told me honestly that it's not gonna help me to find a job because the letter will only confirm that I worked in his project during final semester. My personal network couldn't really help as everyone i know is just like me, struggling to find a job.


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## n0th1ng (Feb 24, 2014)

I got the same answer from ACS:
Hi

Thank you for your email.

You may wish to seek advice from the Department of Immigration in relation to this matter.

As per the ACS you do hold a valid and suitable skills assessment result.

Regards

DBIP states that they play the game according to ACS's rules. ACS kicks the ball of responsibility back to DBIP. Only way to clarify this matter is giving DBIP a call.


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## tipzstamatic (Aug 13, 2013)

n0th1ng said:


> I got the same answer from ACS: Hi Thank you for your email. You may wish to seek advice from the Department of Immigration in relation to this matter. As per the ACS you do hold a valid and suitable skills assessment result. Regards DBIP states that they play the game according to ACS's rules. ACS kicks the ball of responsibility back to DBIP. Only way to clarify this matter is giving DBIP a call.


They do this because ultimately visa grant or rejection is in the hands of DIBP. If you get rejected you can't say ACS said this or that.


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## n0th1ng (Feb 24, 2014)

tipzstamatic said:


> They do this because ultimately visa grant or rejection is in the hands of DIBP. If you get rejected you can't say ACS said this or that.


Then why does DIBP state that they follow ACS rules? I just don't get it. DIBP could just require all applicants to have 1yo exp or PY course taken in order to eligible for GSM visas. Why did they have to let ACS make those things become a part of GSM requirements.


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## tipzstamatic (Aug 13, 2013)

n0th1ng said:


> Then why did DIBP state that they follow ACS rules? I just don't get it. DIBP could just require all applicants to have 1yo exp or PY course taken in order to eligible for GSM visas. Why did they have to let ACS make those things become a part of GSM requirements while they could do it on their own.


Because it's not the same for all circumstance.
And Australia is tightening its migration process, so we can rant all we want but it's still DIBP who will decide on our visa applications. Clearly the thrust of DIBP is to filter out skilled migrants with at least 2 years of experience. ACS didn't have deduction of 2 years before jul 13 but now they do. And now it so happens the tightening of rules apply to fresh graduates and there's nothing we can do but concede to DIBP rules or find elsewhere to apply for immigration.


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## n0th1ng (Feb 24, 2014)

Now it does make sense. I'd better prepare for this battle


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## moonsing (Mar 24, 2014)

Hi Mate,
Have you called DIBP for this issue? May I know the updated news?

I am exactly in the same situation as you do, but I have already got 1 year working experience with my 485 visa in Australia , and I have assessed my ACS 1 year ago (old one as graduate).

I am holding an EOI invitation now, if you have been replied from DIBP please let me know, otherwise I ll call them for clarification.

Cheers


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## n0th1ng (Feb 24, 2014)

moonsing said:


> Hi Mate,
> Have you called DIBP for this issue? May I know the updated news?
> 
> I am exactly in the same situation as you do, but I have already got 1 year working experience with my 485 visa in Australia , and I have assessed my ACS 1 year ago (old one as graduate).
> ...


According to the other guy, he called the DIBP and got the answer from them as is we obtained the skill assessment b4 rule changed so we are not affected by rule. 

Bear in mind that it's what I heard from him, I did not make the call. You 'd better call the DIBP yourself to confirm that. And when u get the answer, please share it here with us.

Cheers.


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## door999mo (Sep 19, 2013)

n0th1ng said:


> According to the other guy, he called the DIBP and got the answer from them as is we obtained the skill assessment b4 rule changed so we are not affected by rule.
> 
> Bear in mind that it's what I heard from him, I did not make the call. You 'd better call the DIBP yourself to confirm that. And when u get the answer, please share it here with us.
> 
> Cheers.


I have also confirmed this information with 3 different migration agents.
They all told me that I am able to use the old format of skill assessment as a full skill assessment.


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## hnguyen (Mar 2, 2014)

I called DIBP and they said it is ok, your letter says everything in it.
At first, I didn't intend to call them cause everything was very clear to me, no doubt at all but it's worth just a call.

But don't quote my answer pls, if you are in Aus now, why not just give them a call by yourself.
You may need to wait ~20min for them to pick up but will get your own proof.

Now we all have same responses from agents, ACS and DIBP.

Good luck


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## n0th1ng (Feb 24, 2014)

door999mo said:


> I have also confirmed this information with 3 different migration agents.
> They all told me that I am able to use the old format of skill assessment as a full skill assessment.


If u followed this thread, u can see that I did the same thing. Visited different agents and all give the same answer.



hnguyen said:


> I called DIBP and they said it is ok, your letter says everything in it.
> At first, I didn't intend to call them cause everything was very clear to me, no doubt at all but it's worth just a call.
> 
> But don't quote my answer pls, if you are in Aus now, why not just give them a call by yourself.
> ...


Good to see you here. How r u doing bro? How are your frd's visa and yours going? I havent come back to Aus yet and still training for the IELTS exam.


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## hnguyen (Mar 2, 2014)

n0th1ng said:


> If u followed this thread, u can see that I did the same thing. Visited different agents and all give the same answer.
> 
> 
> 
> Good to see you here. How r u doing bro? How are your frd's visa and yours going? I havent come back to Aus yet and still training for the IELTS exam.


Hi n0th1ng,
I'm good, thank you. 
I have applied as can be seen from my signature, now just waiting and praying.

Opp, sorry, I didn't mean about your previous post in this thread, it is useful for other people and I am happy with it.

What I meant is just for anyone when communicating with CO in their application, you can't say someone on the expat forum or agents said that. It is better to have a call to DIBP and just remember the time as they usually recorded that.

Best luck to your ielts exam.
Cheers


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## moonsing (Mar 24, 2014)

Hey Guys, I got my visa granted, with above mentioned ACS certificate, no question from CO..

I have also called DIBP, suggested that they only care about the key words: 'for migration'


Cheers and good luck every one!


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## hnguyen (Mar 2, 2014)

moonsing said:


> Hey Guys, I got my visa granted, with above mentioned ACS certificate, no question from CO..
> 
> I have also called DIBP, suggested that they only care about the key words: 'for migration'
> 
> ...


Congrats moonsing,

I also got grant, no question about this as expected.

Misleading information can cost people a fortune. Just do enough research and confident with your decision.

In my case, I will have 1 year Aus experience this May but still decided to go ahead, so got grant on time and following by long term contract 

Good luck and best wishes.


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