# Street protests in Madrid.



## oronero (Aug 24, 2012)

I just saw this link on Facebook but have not heard of this taking place in the UK media. Are these protests actually happening and is this a real reflection of what is happening on the streets of Madrid?


22M Dignity Marches Gather a Million Peaceful Protesters in Madrid; Government of Spain Answers with Riot Police Violence - revolution-news.com


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## andoba (Jan 12, 2014)

Yes, it happened yesterday. Today protests continued and extended to other cities, for example to Valencia.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

oronero said:


> I just saw this link on Facebook but have not heard of this taking place in the UK media. Are these protests actually happening and is this a real reflection of what is happening on the streets of Madrid?
> 
> 
> 22M Dignity Marches Gather a Million Peaceful Protesters in Madrid; Government of Spain Answers with Riot Police Violence - revolution-news.com


Yes, there were huge protests in Madrid with people joining in from all over the country. Unfortunately I couldn't go so don't have first hand info, but it seems that the marches were very peaceful except for a dozen idiots who are professional stirrer uppers and they sy¡tarted throwing stuff at the police and it escalated from there.
Perhaps the sheer number of people showing their discontent should be focussed upon as the image of Spain and what it means to be part of this country today, rather than a few "hooligans".
From El Mundo
_Las ocho marchas trataban de ser una metáfora de un malestar que recorre España. Un malestar concreto sepultado bajo números escalofriantes: casi seis millones de parados, decenas de miles de desahucios y miles de millones de recortes en gasto social. La marcha desembocó en manifestación. Todo discurrió de forma pacífica y planificada hasta entrada la noche, cuando elementos radicales y policías antidisturbios entraron en acción._


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

more here Photo Gallery: Protests in Madrid's Puerta del Sol - SPIEGEL ONLINE - International


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

oronero said:


> I just saw this link on Facebook but have not heard of this taking place in the UK media. Are these protests actually happening and is this a real reflection of what is happening on the streets of Madrid?
> 
> 
> 22M Dignity Marches Gather a Million Peaceful Protesters in Madrid; Government of Spain Answers with Riot Police Violence - revolution-news.com


Yes, there were reports in The Guardian, ThevIndependent and Mail on Sunday.
These corroborate what PW has said, that a few idiots disrupted a peaceful protest by attacking the police. The usual suspects, as in the UK...Trots, anarchists, 'class warriors' and similar.

I would not expect a balanced report from a source calling itself 'revolution news' any more than I would from the Mail but the reports in El Pais seem objective and accurate.


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## thrax (Nov 13, 2008)

It was covered extensively on BBC and the world service. CNN, RT and even Al Jaz covered it...


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

The same thing happens at every march and demo. A small group representing no- one but themselves attempts to hi- jack the event. Members of these groups often incite violence precisely to provoke a police response so they can screech about police brutality. The police response is indeed often disproportionate but that shifts the blame even more than those who start it. In the UK the chief culprits are Class War, some elements of the Trotskyite SWP and similar groupuscles and assorted anarchists.

This March was made up of columns from each region. Andalucia sent a strong contingent and I know some who took part. The aim was to protest in a dignified and peaceful manner at the distress caused by the Government's austerity programme.
The focus now is on the violence not the reason for the protest.
As is always the case.


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## webmarcos (Dec 25, 2012)

> Perhaps the sheer number of people showing their discontent should be focussed upon as the image of Spain and what it means to be part of this country today, rather than a few "hooligans".


Political protests, as in many countries, are a common occurence. In fact under the last PSOE government the PP and their allies used to hold equally large rallies, under the guise of protecting religious rights or demonstrating against ETA activities.

And I disagree that the negative images should be promoted. In fact there is already far too much focus on that. We see regularly pictures of 2 or 3 beggars or a small number looking in bins - believe me you can see thousands of shoppers every day on many Madrid streets, bars and restaurants fill to brimming in various barrios like Lavapies, Malasana, Conde Duque as well as the centre. It actually hurts small businesses when you portray the country as an acopalypse zone, as it stops potential sales. Stop talking the country down, if you have any real feeling for the unemployed, instead of posturing to make yourself look better. 
Things are actually getting better in the economy (imo despite government actions, not because of them)
Spain â€“ Foreign investments driving job creation


> Automobile manufacturers are also betting on Spain. General Motors Co. (GM) invested €165 million in its Figueruelas plant in 2013 and plans to spend another €210 million this year. Renault SA (RNO) will create 250 jobs in its Valladolid factory in 2014 as it increases output, Spain Chairman Jose Vicente de los Mozos said this week.


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## oronero (Aug 24, 2012)

Thanks for your replies, I missed this in the UK press and did not come across any reports of it on the BBC website. I must admit that I tend to get most of my news feed from the internet and hence obviously missed the reporting.

I was not sure whether there had been a blanket silence in reporting, as alleged, when I came across the original post and due to it's original source I was unsure as to it's legitimacy, hence asking directly on this forum...thank you all for confirming the situation.

Despite the British reports declaring that things are improving here, I see little real improvement in West Yorkshire and whilst talking to fellow business owners around the UK they report little change in their business affairs.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

webmarcos said:


> Political protests, as in many countries, are a common occurence. In fact under the last PSOE government the PP and their allies used to hold equally large rallies, under the guise of protecting religious rights or demonstrating against ETA activities.
> 
> And I disagree that the negative images should be promoted. In fact there is already far too much focus on that. We see regularly pictures of 2 or 3 beggars or a small number looking in bins - believe me you can see thousands of shoppers every day on many Madrid streets, bars and restaurants fill to brimming in various barrios like Lavapies, Malasana, Conde Duque as well as the centre. It actually hurts small businesses when you portray the country as an acopalypse zone, as it stops potential sales. Stop talking the country down, if you have any real feeling for the unemployed, instead of posturing to make yourself look better.
> Things are actually getting better in the economy (imo despite government actions, not because of them)
> Spain – Foreign investments driving job creation


I 'liked' your post because I agree with the last paragraph but if you are suggesting that hunger, poverty, evictions and marches to protest at these should be airbrushed out of the media picture, then I strongly disagree.

Yes, Spain is -slowly - getting out of the mess it's in. But the good news is not widespread, it's focused and very narrowly so. Regions such as Andalucia which benefited superficially from the construction boom and then suffered in reality from its collapse will take a very long time to see any 'green shoots' and people will continue to experience hardship. 
We immigrants have no right to tell them to suffer in silence.

As for business suffering because of 'negative images'...I would like to see hard evidence of that. Sensible businessmen and women don't look at pictures of hooded thugs throwing bottles when deciding on investments, they look at balance sheets and government policies.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

webmarcos said:


> Political protests, as in many countries, are a common occurence. In fact under the last PSOE government the PP and their allies used to hold equally large rallies, under the guise of protecting religious rights or demonstrating against ETA activities.
> 
> *And I disagree that the negative images should be promoted*. In fact there is already far too much focus on that. We see regularly pictures of 2 or 3 beggars or a small number looking in bins - believe me you can see thousands of shoppers every day on many Madrid streets, bars and restaurants fill to brimming in various barrios like Lavapies, Malasana, Conde Duque as well as the centre. It actually hurts small businesses when you portray the country as an acopalypse zone, as it stops potential sales. *Stop talking the country down, if you have any real feeling for the unemployed, instead of posturing to make yourself look better. *
> Things are actually getting better in the economy (imo despite government actions, not because of them)
> Spain – Foreign investments driving job creation


 I'm not sure that I understand you. I don't think that negative images should necessarily be promoted, but then again I don't think these protests are negative. I don't think beggars, or protests should be ignored as they are part of everyday life here in Spain, but as you say, so is the shopping etc in much of Madrid. That is one of the aspects of life today that should be really highlighted - the growing gap between the rich and poor. A report came out last week about that very topic and Spain came off very badly. I can't look for it now, but it would be interesting to root it out.
And I'm not talking the country down, just saying what has happened. I can only think that you are using you in a "free" senso of the world


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## Chopera (Apr 22, 2013)

I didn't see much trouble although I didn't go into the centre. I don't like the fact that what seems to have been a few scuffles have taken the headlines - which is exactly what this joke of a government wants. Not only do they want it to seem like only the lunatics are protesting, but they want an excuse to further restrict these types of protest, through force if necessary. 

The other things I dislike are the republican flags, union flags, etc, that always seem to appear since they dilute and distort the message. Many people there might not be republicans but those flags give the impression everyone was. If you want to wave your republican flags then go on a republican rally. If you want to wave your union glags then go on a union rally. Don't try to hi-jack other people's rallies instead!


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## webmarcos (Dec 25, 2012)

mrypg9 said:


> I 'liked' your post because I agree with the last paragraph but if you are suggesting that hunger, poverty, evictions and marches to protest at these should be airbrushed out of the media picture, then I strongly disagree.
> 
> Yes, Spain is -slowly - getting out of the mess it's in. But the good news is not widespread, it's focused and very narrowly so. Regions such as Andalucia which benefited superficially from the construction boom and then suffered in reality from its collapse will take a very long time to see any 'green shoots' and people will continue to experience hardship.
> We immigrants have no right to tell them to suffer in silence.
> ...


I in turn would agree with much of what you put - but I have very real experience of how a business can suffer because of negative images.
One of my biggest earners are book-signing events - I can take 100s of euros in sales in a couple of hours. Yet it's proving nearly impossible to get UK publishers to co-operate, even though I pay in advance pro-forma for the stock and am amenable to paying the airfare etc. People in the UK have been bombarded by the negative images, and don't believe there is a large spending power in a city like Madrid. Maybe the sight of packed stadiums for Real or Atletico should convince them? I'm hoping the forthcoming Eddie Izzard shows will sell out and also give an indication. Yes there are people excluded from the jobs market, people who are homeless etc. But let's not pretend the whole country is an apocalypse, because it's not.


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## webmarcos (Dec 25, 2012)

Chopera said:


> I didn't see much trouble although I didn't go into the centre. I don't like the fact that what seems to have been a few scuffles have taken the headlines - which is exactly what this joke of a government wants. Not only do they want it to seem like only the lunatics are protesting, but they want an excuse to further restrict these types of protest, through force if necessary.
> 
> The other things I dislike are the republican flags, union flags, etc, that always seem to appear since they dilute and distort the message. Many people there might not be republicans but those flags give the impression everyone was. If you want to wave your republican flags then go on a republican rally. If you want to wave your union glags then go on a union rally. Don't try to hi-jack other people's rallies instead!


I was in various parts of the centre on Saturday afternoon, and didn't see any trouble. (in fact the only bother I saw was earlier in the day when some party-goers made the mistake of openly snorting coke in a coffee bar - the landlady made sure to chuck them out). And I saw quite a few of the marchers in Lavapies and they seemed well-behaved and pleasant.
Agree with your point about hi-jacking the march, but this always seems to take place.


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## 213979 (Apr 11, 2013)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Yes, there were huge protests in Madrid with people joining in from all over the country. Unfortunately I couldn't go so don't have first hand info, but it seems that the marches were very peaceful except for a dozen idiots who are professional stirrer uppers and they sy¡tarted throwing stuff at the police and it escalated from there.
> Perhaps the sheer number of people showing their discontent should be focussed upon as the image of Spain and what it means to be part of this country today, rather than a few "hooligans".
> From El Mundo
> Las ocho marchas trataban de ser una metáfora de un malestar que recorre España. Un malestar concreto sepultado bajo números escalofriantes: casi seis millones de parados, decenas de miles de desahucios y miles de millones de recortes en gasto social. La marcha desembocó en manifestación. Todo discurrió de forma pacífica y planificada hasta entrada la noche, cuando elementos radicales y policías antidisturbios entraron en acción.


Those are some interesting words coming from El Mundo. I think it has been interesting to read/listen to how critical conservative media has been of the government lately.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

elenetxu said:


> Those are some interesting words coming from El Mundo. I think it has been interesting to read/listen to how critical conservative media has been of the government lately.


Totally agree


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Chopera said:


> I didn't see much trouble although I didn't go into the centre. I don't like the fact that what seems to have been a few scuffles have taken the headlines - which is exactly what this joke of a government wants. Not only do they want it to seem like only the lunatics are protesting, but they want an excuse to further restrict these types of protest, through force if necessary.





webmarcos said:


> I was in various parts of the centre on Saturday afternoon, and didn't see any trouble.


Exactly. As is usual 99% of the people who are involved in the march anre there for the same purpose - to unite and show discontent about how the country is being run. 1% use it as an excuse to commit acts of violence and to vent their anger against the authorities.
A friend of mine was in Anton Martin around 23:00. There were plenty of people milling about going to bars, restaurants , the theatre etc, not protesters and she said there were a load of "anti disturbios" police lined up with rubber bullet guns. She said it was completley bizarre...


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

webmarcos said:


> I in turn would agree with much of what you put - but I have very real experience of how a business can suffer because of negative images.
> One of my biggest earners are book-signing events - I can take 100s of euros in sales in a couple of hours. Yet it's proving nearly impossible to get UK publishers to co-operate, even though I pay in advance pro-forma for the stock and am amenable to paying the airfare etc. People in the UK have been bombarded by the negative images, and don't believe there is a large spending power in a city like Madrid. Maybe the sight of packed stadiums for Real or Atletico should convince them? I'm hoping the forthcoming Eddie Izzard shows will sell out and also give an indication. Yes there are people excluded from the jobs market, people who are homeless etc. But let's not pretend the whole country is an apocalypse, because it's not.


Do you know that really surprises me - that publishers in the UK have such a negative view of Spain. I mean, so many people who post on here have very little idea of what's going on in Spain, I'd say 50 - 60% seem to think that *everything* is better here than there. 
As you say, there is still quite a lot of spending power in the country. I've always said that for people who are working the situation is better. Prices in shops and restaurants are going down, so if you've got money you can buy more. Economic inequality grew more than any other country in the OECD (about 35 countries)
This what I was referring to in an earlier post 
*Spanish wealth gap biggest in Europe, says charity*

Top 20% of Spanish society now seven and a half times richer than bottom fifth, with number of millionaires up 13% in year


Spanish wealth gap biggest in Europe, says charity | World news | theguardian.com

Finally I understand that the protests themselves must affect business in and around SOL (where is your bookshop exactly??). The government loves to point out how much the Corté Inglés etc complains about the marches. I don't know why they don't limit the number, there really are too many, why they don't get them to change the routes a bit, or maybe they could listen to what a lot of the people are saying and stop cutting basic rights and think about cutting costs with in the government itself!!?:nod:


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Pesky Wesky said:


> where is your bookshop exactly??



Found it!


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

More on this topic. This is a hot subject now at least in Madrid

http://elpais.com/elpais/2014/03/26/inenglish/1395855049_999176.html?rel=rosEP


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