# Telecommuting visa



## grownseed (Oct 24, 2011)

Hi,

I'm hoping I'll be able to find some help here as information on the subject is, as far as I can tell, really scarce...

I'm French, living and working in Glasgow (Scotland, UK) for a web design agency. My company have agreed to let me telecommute so that I can keep working full-time whilst travelling the world (wowow!). I'd like my first destination to be San Francisco for approximately 6 months (as in more than 3 and up to 6), and I'd like to know what visa I should be getting?

As far as I understand I should be able to get a B2 tourist visa as I won't be working for a US company or US clients, however I've been unable to confirm this anywhere.

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

Thank you.


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## Crawford (Jan 23, 2011)

grownseed said:


> Hi,
> 
> I'm hoping I'll be able to find some help here as information on the subject is, as far as I can tell, really scarce...
> 
> ...


As a French citizen you are eligible for the VWP (visa waiver program) which allows you to stay in the US for up to 90 days.

Since you are eligible for the VWP there is always the probability that you will be turned down for the B2 visa. You will definitely be turned down if you declare that you will be working - albeit telecommuting - while in the States. 

Once turned down for the B2 you will then not be eligible for the automatic VWP and ESTA application but will need to apply via interview. Its a somewhat risky path to take. The Immigration folks are somewhat suspicious of people who are apparently able to take vacations for up to a year - really? B2's are usually given to retirees who wish to spend more time in the US but who are very unlikely to want to work or try to live permanently.

To simplify matters I would plan on being in the States for up to 90 days on the VWP visa, leave the country and then come back again say after a 3 to 4 month break for another 90 days vacation.


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## grownseed (Oct 24, 2011)

Hi Crawford,

Thanks a lot for your reply! I've heard of the visa waiver program, but never imagined it could actually get in the way of getting a B2 visa... It seems to me that in this day and age telecommuting would be fairly common thing, it's a shame the law in supposedly advanced countries is so far behind.

After going through a number of other pages, I found a page which has a section for telecommuters (would provide a link to it if the system let me...) under a joint B1/B2 visa, do you know if a) this is actually valid information b) this could work in my case? Also would there be any tax implications?

Supposing I end up going under the VWP, I understand I need to get my outgoing ticket in advance (?). Does my destination have to be my country of origin, or can it simply be, say, Canada?

Thanks again!


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## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

grownseed said:


> After going through a number of other pages, I found a page which has a section for telecommuters (would provide a link to it if the system let me...) under a joint B1/B2 visa, do you know if a) this is actually valid information b) this could work in my case? Also would there be any tax implications?


On what site does this page appear? If it's not US State Department or one of the Customs and Border agencies' sites, I'd be very very wary - especially if there is a fee for "assisting you" in getting this visa.

The rule of thumb on where you are "working" (mainly for tax purposes) is that you're working wherever you are physically present while performing the work. If that makes you resident in the US, you're expected to (a) have a work permit and (b) pay taxes to the US. It doesn't matter where your employer is located or where you are being paid.
Cheers,
Bev


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## grownseed (Oct 24, 2011)

Hi Bev,

Thanks for the update. The page I got this from is this one w w w .immihelp . com/business-visa/permissible-prohibited-activities.html (sorry for the spaces the system won't let me otherwise). Considering the ridiculous rules in place, I'm more and more tempted to wing it on a VWP...

cheers


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## twostep (Apr 3, 2008)

grownseed said:


> Hi Bev,
> 
> Thanks for the update. The page I got this from is this one w w w .immihelp . com/business-visa/permissible-prohibited-activities.html (sorry for the spaces the system won't let me otherwise). Considering the ridiculous rules in place, I'm more and more tempted to wing it on a VWP...
> 
> cheers


There are quite a few oft these "we will make it happen for you - pay up front" out there. 

Telecommuniting is a grey area. Ask yourself - do I produce income, do I get paid for what I do, where do I physically produce this income? You get caught - it is a quick trip home potentially worse. You do not get caught - you were lucky.
The ridiculous rules are in place and you can change them as soon as you are emperor. If you have done a bit of research the 90 day rule seems to apply pretty much across the board for tourists. At least the US offers VWP.


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## grownseed (Oct 24, 2011)

Hi,

I never actually intended to use that site, I was simply wondering if the information provided on it was valid as travel.state.gov does not seem to have any information relating to international telecommuting.

Of course I'd rather not chance anything if I have the choice, but at this point I still don't understand clearly what my options are, and the government websites are anything but helpful on this subject. The VWP is indeed a nice option, but it limits me to 90 days, when ideally I would want to spend about 6 months there. If a visa allows me to do that entirely legally, then I'm more than happy to look into it.

My original suggestion about a B2 visa seemed plausible because I would not be "stealing" anybody's job, would have money during my stay and would have no intention of staying beyond the 6 months allowed. I'm not sure in this particular case why telecommuting would be a grey area, since I'm clearly not doing business in the US, but I'd be really grateful if you had any links to any official documentation on the matter.

Thanks.


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## twostep (Apr 3, 2008)

grownseed said:


> Hi,
> 
> I never actually intended to use that site, I was simply wondering if the information provided on it was valid as travel.state.gov does not seem to have any information relating to international telecommuting..


It is a commercial enterprise catering to paying customers. uscisc.gov



grownseed said:


> Of course I'd rather not chance anything if I have the choice, but at this point I still don't understand clearly what my options are, and the government websites are anything but helpful on this subject. The VWP is indeed a nice option, but it limits me to 90 days, when ideally I would want to spend about 6 months there. If a visa allows me to do that entirely legally, then I'm more than happy to look into it..


You can apply for B2.



grownseed said:


> My original suggestion about a B2 visa seemed plausible because I would not be "stealing" anybody's job, would have money during my stay and would have no intention of staying beyond the 6 months allowed. I'm not sure in this particular case why telecommuting would be a grey area, since I'm clearly not doing business in the US, but I'd be really grateful if you had any links to any official documentation on the matter.
> Thanks.


What do you mean by "not stealing anybody's job"? B2 is for extended vacation. You work in the US and receive compansation. You can look up various option in the stickies at the beginning of the forum. What you
plan will not fly legally.


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## grownseed (Oct 24, 2011)

Thanks for the additional details twostep. As I mentioned in my opening post, the idea is to keep working full-time remotely for a British company with British clients, hence "not stealing anybody's job". I'm not sure exactly what you mean by "You work in the US and receive compensation" ; while it's true I would be working from the US, none of the work I'd carry out would have anything to do with the US, nor the compensation I would get.

As far as I can see I would basically be a tourist with continued income, although it clearly doesn't seem to be that simple...


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## grownseed (Oct 24, 2011)

Just a quick update, according to the "Qualifying for a visitor visa" section of this page travel.state . gov/visa/temp/types/types_1262.html#3, there is nothing I can see going against the idea of telecommuting, unless I'm missing something else?


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## Crawford (Jan 23, 2011)

grownseed said:


> Just a quick update, according to the "Qualifying for a visitor visa" section of this page travel.state . gov/visa/temp/types/types_1262.html#3, there is nothing I can see going against the idea of telecommuting, unless I'm missing something else?


 ....... you don't see anything going against the idea of telecommuting because there is nothing mentioned regarding people telecommuting....... its a VISITORS visa. They expect you to be sight seeing, visiting museums, taking a river boat cruise, having lunch in great restaurants, visiting the vineyards - not sitting in your hotel room communicating with your company about the latest website design or contacting clients.

You'll probably get away with it - try for the B2 and let us know how you get on.


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## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

grownseed said:


> Thanks for the additional details twostep. As I mentioned in my opening post, the idea is to keep working full-time remotely for a British company with British clients, hence "not stealing anybody's job". I'm not sure exactly what you mean by "You work in the US and receive compensation" ; while it's true I would be working from the US, none of the work I'd carry out would have anything to do with the US, nor the compensation I would get.
> 
> As far as I can see I would basically be a tourist with continued income, although it clearly doesn't seem to be that simple...


Logic doesn't always work when dealing with governments. 

I know that B type visas can be used for "business trips" - say, when your employer wants you to go to the US to meet with clients or do training for your job. Generally, a business trip is considered something where your employer is requiring you to be in the US for some period of time due to work-related stuff.

Anyhow, there is more on the issue here: Visitor Visas - Business and Pleasure (possibly the part you've already checked).

What counts is the intended purpose of your visit. If you're really there to play tourist and you just happen to do some work for your employer via telecommuting, you could probably get away with it - though you could have trouble getting a B2 visa if they know you'll be getting paid for work you're doing while in the US.
Cheers,
Bev


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## twostep (Apr 3, 2008)

Bevdeforges said:


> Logic doesn't always work when dealing with governments.
> 
> I know that B type visas can be used for "business trips" - say, when your employer wants you to go to the US to meet with clients or do training for your job. Generally, a business trip is considered something where your employer is requiring you to be in the US for some period of time due to work-related stuff.
> 
> ...


Bev there is a difference between answering emails and working remote. :>)


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## Pinkjellybean (Aug 5, 2011)

A friend of my father-in-laws was banned from the US for 10 yrs for 'telecommuting' on a B2 visa...say no more


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## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

twostep said:


> Bev there is a difference between answering emails and working remote. :>)


Exactly. And that's the line you walk every time you enter the US claiming to be a "tourist" when you're actually doing work. Or even if you apply for a B2 visa and have to answer the question of how you will support yourself during 6 months in the US as a "tourist."
Cheers,
Bev


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## grownseed (Oct 24, 2011)

Thanks a lot for your replies guys. Looks like I'm not going to risk it too much and go under the VWP after all. It still works with my "country hopping" idea anyway, I'll just have to make my stays a bit shorter.

I read that under the VWP, you're supposed to have an outgoing ticket to prove that you're not intending to stay beyond the authorised 90 days. Could somebody please confirm? If so, I take it there is no issue with having a ticket to a country that is not my home country?

Thanks!


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## Davis1 (Feb 20, 2009)

grownseed said:


> Thanks a lot for your replies guys. Looks like I'm not going to risk it too much and go under the VWP after all. It still works with my "country hopping" idea anyway, I'll just have to make my stays a bit shorter.
> 
> I read that under the VWP, you're supposed to have an outgoing ticket to prove that you're not intending to stay beyond the authorised 90 days. Could somebody please confirm? If so, I take it there is no issue with having a ticket to a country that is not my home country?
> 
> Thanks!


You need to arrive with a return or forwarding ticket 
you can stay in the US for up to 90 days .. then stay out for 90 days ...

A story on another site shows the pitfalls ..a guy was told not to apply for the B-2 ..but he knew better ..of course he was denied ..being young and single 
so he applied for the visa waiver ESTA ...and denied again ... because the B-2 was denied ...
it may be sometime before he can make his trip


more who tried to screw with the system
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...on-Richard-Cross-locked-U-S-visa-blunder.html


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