# Pensions



## jimenato (Nov 21, 2009)

This is good news isn't it? A quick glance through doesn't reveal any exceptions for expats. 



> The £140 pension for all: Huge boost for stay-at-home mums and married couples in historic shake-up





> Work and Pensions Secretary Iain Duncan Smith and Pensions Minister Steve Webb are suggesting a new ‘single tier’ state pension which would replace all existing payments. If paid at the expected £140 a week, that would mean an income of £7,280 per year or £14,560 for a pensioner couple.


Of course it might all be bull - it's in the Mail after all...


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

jimenato said:


> This is good news isn't it? A quick glance through doesn't reveal any exceptions for expats.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Its in "the Sun" as well, so it must be true LOL

Jo xxx


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

jimenato said:


> This is good news isn't it? A quick glance through doesn't reveal any exceptions for expats.
> 
> Of course it might all be bull - it's in the Mail after all...


It's in the Indie too. Just a proposal at this stage, with a promised Green Paper setting it out in more detail due before the end of the year. I'll believe it when I see it.

'Decent' state pension could be £140 a week - UK Politics, UK - The Independent

Certainly makes sense to get rid of means-testing (ridiculously expensive to administer), but strange given that they are_ introducing_ means-testing on child benefits!


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Alcalaina said:


> It's in the Indie too. Just a proposal at this stage, with a promised Green Paper setting it out in more detail due before the end of the year. I'll believe it when I see it.
> 
> 'Decent' state pension could be £140 a week - UK Politics, UK - The Independent
> 
> Certainly makes sense to get rid of means-testing (ridiculously expensive to administer), but strange given that they are_ introducing_ means-testing on child benefits!


The only fly in the ointment I can see is the suggestion that pension entitlement will in future be by residence and nationality, instead of NI contribution record. Since April this year, both man and woman only need 30 years of NIC record to qualify for full pension. So what about those who have been making voluntary contributions to qualify for a pension (is the money now wasted?) and those who have been living and working abroad (esp outside EU) while not being a British citizen, and now find themselves ineligible for a state pension even though they have been making Class 3 voluntary contributions? More details needed, methinks.


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## gus-lopez (Jan 4, 2010)

& if it gets rid of the disparity between two people who live together & a married couple then it can't come soon enough. I've never been able to understand why , when a married couple pay in separately for their pensions they then receive it as a couple at 20% less than the pensions for two single people.


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## gus-lopez (Jan 4, 2010)

Joppa said:


> The only fly in the ointment I can see is the suggestion that pension entitlement will in future be by residence and nationality, instead of NI contribution record. Since April this year, both man and woman only need 30 years of NIC record to qualify for full pension. So what about those who have been making voluntary contributions to qualify for a pension (is the money now wasted?) and those who have been living and working abroad (esp outside EU) while not being a British citizen, and now find themselves ineligible for a state pension even though they have been making Class 3 voluntary contributions? More details needed, methinks.


 The bloke I used to work with here paid voluntary contributions from 2003 up until this year. ( even though I told him the rules had changed & he was well over the 30 year period.) This year he received a letter from the Dss telling him he had overpaid & was entitled to reclaim the overpayments! I assume this was solely for the vol. contributions.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

gus-lopez said:


> & if it gets rid of the disparity between two people who live together & a married couple then it can't come soon enough. I've never been able to understand why , when a married couple pay in separately for their pensions they then receive it as a couple at 20% less than the pensions for two single people.


Hear hear!


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

gus-lopez said:


> & if it gets rid of the disparity between two people who live together & a married couple then it can't come soon enough. I've never been able to understand why , when a married couple pay in separately for their pensions they then receive it as a couple at 20% less than the pensions for two single people.


I think you've got it wrong. If you as husband and wife have both been paying NIC for the required number of years (now 30 years for both), you will each get full single person's pension, currently worth £97.65. The married couple's rate is only for those whose husband (or wife or civil partner) has paid the full NIC but their spouse hasn't - in that case he or she is entitled to 60% of full pension based on their spouse's contributions.
In case of two people living together, like married couples their pension is based on their individual contribution record. But if one of them has full entitlement and the other hasn't, they are not entitled to 60% of their partner's contribution record like a married couple.
Currently of course there is pension credit to top up those whose total income comes to less than the required minimum.

_I and my wife have full NI records. Will we get a full state pension each or a married couple's pension?

You are treated as individuals so will each get a Basic State Pension (BSP) based on your own records. The married couple's pension is designed to help those where one of them has a reduced BSP because they have not worked or paid reduced NI contributions._

How Does It Work? - The Pensions Advisory Service (TPAS)


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## jimenato (Nov 21, 2009)

Joppa said:


> The only fly in the ointment I can see is the suggestion that pension entitlement will in future be by residence and nationality, instead of NI contribution record. Since April this year, both man and woman only need 30 years of NIC record to qualify for full pension. So what about those who have been making voluntary contributions to qualify for a pension (is the money now wasted?) and those who have been living and working abroad (esp outside EU) while not being a British citizen, and now find themselves ineligible for a state pension even though they have been making Class 3 voluntary contributions? More details needed, methinks.


That's a big worry. Is it possible that people who moved away from the UK halfway through their working lives (me!) will get nothing at all? Is it even possible that people living outside the UK in retirement having worked all their lives in the UK will get nothing? Or will you get a proportion of it depending upon how long you lived in the UK?:noidea:

Definitely more detail needed.


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## gus-lopez (Jan 4, 2010)

jimenato said:


> That's a big worry. Is it possible that people who moved away from the UK halfway through their working lives (me!) will get nothing at all? Is it even possible that people living outside the UK in retirement having worked all their lives in the UK will get nothing? Or will you get a proportion of it depending upon how long you lived in the UK?:noidea:
> 
> Definitely more detail needed.


I can't see how they could it as it would be completely contrary to the Ec rules on free movement.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

gus-lopez said:


> I can't see how they could it as it would be completely contrary to the Ec rules on free movement.


I agree that on this point, EU rules will trump any domestic legislation. The only people that may be affected are those who have moved outside of EU, so with inadequate UK or EU residence record (though their British citizenship may save them?).


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## jimenato (Nov 21, 2009)

Well, we're all just guessing aren't we? But I've got a bad feeling about this...


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

jimenato said:


> Well, we're all just guessing aren't we? But I've got a bad feeling about this...


We'll just have to wait for the Green Paper I guess, which will provide more detail. But there are too many British citizens in the EU to just write us off! Perhaps we should start lobbying the British Embassy or something?


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Alcalaina said:


> We'll just have to wait for the Green Paper I guess, which will provide more detail. But there are too many British citizens in the EU to just write us off! Perhaps we should start lobbying the British Embassy or something?



Perhaps you should wait and see before getting their backs up by making a fuss! Chill, lifes too short!

Jo xxx


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

jojo said:


> Perhaps you should wait and see before getting their backs up by making a fuss! Chill, lifes too short!
> 
> Jo xxx


Well, they are there to protect the interests of British citizens abroad, so I don't see why it would get their backs up. But you're right, we have to wait and see.


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## gus-lopez (Jan 4, 2010)

I can see a large influx of people back in to the country who've already paid in for 30 or 40 years.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Alcalaina said:


> We'll just have to wait for the Green Paper I guess, which will provide more detail. But there are too many British citizens in the EU to just write us off! Perhaps we should start lobbying the British Embassy or something?


British citizens living in other EU/EEA countries have little to worry about, as EU rules lay down that those who have availed themselves of free movement should not be disadvantaged compared to those who have stayed in UK. This includes pension entitlement. 
Some EU countries are naughtier than others in passing legislation contrary to EU regulations, and are slow to amend when their errors have been pointed out by EU Commission or European Court. UK has quite a good record on this, and when they have fallen foul of EU rules, they are pretty prompt in putting things right, in spite of prevailing Euroscepticism.
But in this global age, Britons have moved to all corners of the earth, and even for those who are now EU residents, the periods they have been outside of EU may still impact on their entitlement. As I've said, their British nationality may come to their rescue, or there may be a reciprocal agreement on social security, so that the time they have contributed to SS funds in another country may count as if they still lived and worked in UK.


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## casa99 (Oct 19, 2010)

Joppa said:


> British citizens living in other EU/EEA countries have little to worry about, as EU rules lay down that those who have availed themselves of free movement should not be disadvantaged compared to those who have stayed in UK. This includes pension entitlement.
> Some EU countries are naughtier than others in passing legislation contrary to EU regulations, and are slow to amend when their errors have been pointed out by EU Commission or European Court. UK has quite a good record on this, and when they have fallen foul of EU rules, they are pretty prompt in putting things right, in spite of prevailing Euroscepticism.
> But in this global age, Britons have moved to all corners of the earth, and even for those who are now EU residents, the periods they have been outside of EU may still impact on their entitlement. As I've said, their British nationality may come to their rescue, or there may be a reciprocal agreement on social security, so that the time they have contributed to SS funds in another country may count as if they still lived and worked in UK.


On our local news in the south east tonight they were talking about the new pension rate of £ 140 , but this is not until 2015 and it would be linked to u.k. residensy i.e if you live in the u.k. you get the £ 140 if not just the old rate of pension. I must say the program was itself quite confusing as one person said one thing then seemed to contradict himself, it will I guess be explained in more detail later


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

ALL Universal Benefits should be scrapped. It's absurd that couples like my son and dil received Child Benefit....absurd that my partner and I qualify for Winter Fuel Allowance.
We're not wealthy but no way are we needy in that respect.
The cash should go to those pensioners on or below the poverty line.
I have yet to hear a politician of any Party put up a sound rationale for UBs.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

mrypg9 said:


> I have yet to hear a politician of any Party put up a sound rationale for UBs.


I have a few:
1) Cheaper to run. Often meanstesting can end up costing more than UB, esp if you have to add a safety net for those in genuine need.
2) Keep the Middle England = supporters happy.
3) The logic 'We've paid for it - so we should get it.' Pension isn't UB - you've earned it through a lifetime of contributions.


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## nigele2 (Dec 25, 2009)

mrypg9 said:


> ALL Universal Benefits should be scrapped. It's absurd that couples like my son and dil received Child Benefit....absurd that my partner and I qualify for Winter Fuel Allowance.
> We're not wealthy but no way are we needy in that respect.
> The cash should go to those pensioners on or below the poverty line.
> I have yet to hear a politician of any Party put up a sound rationale for UBs.


Mary can I come and live with you? 

If only the "I've paid in", "its mine by right" brigade could think like that what a wonderful world it would be


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

nigele2 said:


> Mary can I come and live with you?
> 
> If only the "I've paid in", "its mine by right" brigade could think like that what a wonderful world it would be



Nigel, sweeitie, you are welcome any time.


But I don't think you'd like to come here today....
We were awoken at 5 a.m. by a vile stench...Our Little Azor had had the runs.
A 54 kilo Ridgeback with runs takes a lot of clearing up after. Even with all the windows wide open, the scent of excrementos de Ridgeback lingers on. 
He needs a bath.....


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## nigele2 (Dec 25, 2009)

mrypg9 said:


> Nigel, sweeitie, you are welcome any time.
> 
> 
> But I don't think you'd like to come here today....
> ...


I'll bring the shampoo and bath brush (and my wetsuit). There's nothing quite so much fun as bathing a big dog who really doesn't quite see the point of the exercise 

followed by cava, queso and uvas on the terrace . Where's that easyjet page gone ..................


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

nigele2 said:


> I'll bring the shampoo and bath brush (and my wetsuit). There's nothing quite so much fun as bathing a big dog who really doesn't quite see the point of the exercise
> 
> followed by cava, queso and uvas on the terrace . Where's that easyjet page gone ..................



We had a much-loved German Shepherd called Ferdinand....he could only be bathed by coaxing him into our bath tub. Sandra had to get in in her undies and sit in the bubbles and foam washing him. It looked like a scene from a Sacandinavian porn flick.
At least we can clean up Our Little Azor in the garden with a bucket of warm water and doggy shampoo.


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## gus-lopez (Jan 4, 2010)

Apparently it will only apply to 'future ' pensioners , existing pensioners will not get it & the existing system of means testing will have to run for at least 30 years 'till they die. Where's the savings then?
Also it's rumoured that the ones living outside the UK will only get the old basic , not the new rate.

I've never been able to understand where all these benefits came from, they've only appeared in the last 30 years . How do you get entitlement to some benefits if you're working, I've never been able to understand that ?


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

gus-lopez said:


> Apparently it will only apply to 'future ' pensioners , existing pensioners will not get it & the existing system of means testing will have to run for at least 30 years 'till they die. Where's the savings then?
> Also it's rumoured that the ones living outside the UK will only get the old basic , not the new rate.
> 
> I've never been able to understand where all these benefits came from, they've only appeared in the last 30 years . How do you get entitlement to some benefits if you're working, I've never been able to understand that ?


If you are receiving a low wage and qualify you can receive Working Family Tax Credit and some other benefits..
It's really a state subsidy to small businesses and employers who are skinflints or can't afford to pay a good wage for perfectly good reasons.


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## youngagepensioner (May 18, 2009)

gus-lopez said:


> & if it gets rid of the disparity between two people who live together & a married couple then it can't come soon enough. I've never been able to understand why , when a married couple pay in separately for their pensions they then receive it as a couple at 20% less than the pensions for two single people.


If they have paid in individually they will get individual pensions, regardless of marital status. It's only when a woman has not paid enough in her own right that the 'married couples' pension' (although there is actually no such thing) comes into play. In this case she will get a 60% pension based on her husband's NI instead of the 100% she would get if she had paid her own.

I have paid in my qualifying years and get my own State Pension, my husband doesn't draw his yet.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

youngagepensioner said:


> If they have paid in individually they will get individual pensions, regardless of marital status. It's only when a woman has not paid enough in her own right that the 'married couples' pension' (although there is actually no such thing) comes into play. In this case she will get a 60% pension based on her husband's NI instead of the 100% she would get if she had paid her own.
> 
> I have paid in my qualifying years and get my own State Pension, my husband doesn't draw his yet.


Husbands and civil partners qualify for 'married couples' rate from this year under the same conditions.


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## jimenato (Nov 21, 2009)

Joppa said:


> I have a few:
> 1) Cheaper to run. Often meanstesting can end up costing more than UB, esp if you have to add a safety net for those in genuine need.
> 2) Keep the Middle England = supporters happy.
> 3) The logic 'We've paid for it - so we should get it.' Pension isn't UB - you've earned it through a lifetime of contributions.


4) Avoids benefit traps.


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