# Medical care in Thailand



## havasu

I am looking into the option of living in Thailand. Currently, I am on disability due to renal failure and a massive stroke. I no longer have to have dialysis due to organ transplant and I have been living independently.
I am interested in finding out about medical care in Thailand. Most of my current medical needs are checkups, tests and monitoring the side effects of my immuno-suppresant meds for transplant. Physical therapy and stroke rehab I have done on my own and will continue to do so where ever I go. The cost of living in Thailand appeals to me as does the warmer climate.
I am open to all opinions and would appreciate any insight you might provide.


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## synthia

Medical care is excellent in Bangkok and Chiang Mai. People come from all over the world for bypass and other surgery.

For someone in your situation, Thailand would be especially good because on-going care and home help would be extremely cheap. I've heard costs of as little as $3US per day for a health care worker to stay with you full time after surgery.


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## retiredusn

We live in Chanthaburi, Thailand and find the medical service some of the best we have seen in the world. Most insurance companies (US)will pay the entire bill as it is about a 1/3rd of the cost in America, but check with your company to ensure they will pay out of conus.
AZ


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## synthia

Most insurance companies? In the US, the last I heard, only United Health Care would cover you. 

What kind of medical insurance do you have?


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## Guest

My experience has not been all that good here. Some things are cheap, but I had a lot of problems with prices going up once they had me in their clutches, so to speak. For a routine colonoscopy the hospital I dealt with required I stay 2 nights. My bill was about $2000 US! 
Later the pharmacy charged me 800 baht @ (about 24$) for suppositories that I was able to buy at a regular Thai pharmacy for 80 baht @. That's some major gouging. 
It is much cheaper to do as an out patient in the US. If you have insurance, it might be a different story. The nurses are nice, but I find most of the doctors as arrogant as their US counterparts, with less knowledge. I might have to have my colon removed. If I do I will hope to choose another country. Not because of expense, but because I don't see any pride of workmanship in people and their professions in Thailand. Get the job done quick, get the money, and go play. I'm biased. Loved the place for 2 years, but learned too much. If you are unfamiliar with Thailand, really spend some serious time here learning about the place before you pull up your roots. The honeymoon is over with me. My advice is look elsewhere.


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## annamartha

Well, hospital pharmacies are always more expensive. I can't believe you think that it is cheaper in the US, at least per procedure cost. But requiring a hospital stay for a colonoscopy is a bit much.

Where are you located, and what hospital did you go to?


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## synthia

How much experience have you had with medical care without insurance in the US? An emergency room visit with a bit of lab work and an X-ray and a couple of shots resulted in a bill of $3500. I was there for a total of six hours. Have you checked to find out what an uninsured person pays for a colonoscopy in the US?

I have heard, though, that if you don't get everything agreed to in advance, the doctors can be a bit opportunistic. However, there was a recent article in the New York Times about a common practice among oncologists of putting patients through chemotherapy unnecessarily because the insurance companies cut treatment fees but they can make money on the in-office chemo.

I am another person who is quite disillusioned with Thailand. I spent the winter in Chiang Mai, a place I liked a lot back in the 90's. The first thing I noticed is that it is no longer the land of smiles. After a while the acceptance of corruption and the aggressive prostitutes and the ugly old men with the beautiful young Thai 'girlfriends' got to me. It probably shouldn't as I am an older female and none of it affects me really. But it did start to be an unpleasant aspect of the country. All in all, I've pretty much written it off as a retirement place. But all I had to do was pack my bag, get on a bus, and leave.


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## Guest

That was at Bankok Hospital Pattaya Branch. My drug charge for that one prescription was about 240 $. Outside it was 24 $. That's not just 'more expensive' that's gouging. They told me my stay would be about 28,000. There were no complications. The bill was 80,000. I got in their faces for about 2 hours and they brought it down to 55,000.
Some things aren't bad. To go to Pattaya International Hospital and see a general practitioner is only 250 baht. - about $7.50. Here in Samui the same thing that Bangkok Hospital Pattaya charges 300 baht for costs 1000. The fact that there are so many tourists jacks up the price. Also there are 3 tiers of payment. Thai's pay much less for everything. Then resident foreigners pay quite a bit more, (but you have to ask). Then tourists really get charged - big time! I spent 58,000 for 2 nights and 1 proceedure. I helped a Thai lady (financially) to give birth. She spent 5 nights, underwent major surgery - a cesarean section, and they took care of the baby too. Total bill, including a few doctor visits before with ultrasound was 40,000 baht. What would happen if MacDonalds in the US charged you say 50% more for a meal because you were black? Litigation, that's what. But double pricing? That is the norm here. 

To be absolutely honest there are some reasons I don't want to have my bowel removed in Thailand. I'm afraid of malpractice in a country where there is no accountability. I'm afraid of incompetence by medical personel that want to just get it done and out of the way, and I wouldn't be surprised if I heard a story of a person with a lot of money going for a simple operation, and being turned into a vegetable. That would be a steady source of income with relatively little work involved. You might think this last a little far fetched, but this is in a country where babies are stolen and blinded or maimed so they can provide their 'keepers' with a life of ease with the profits from begging.

For what it's worth they say Bumrungrad in Bangkok is the best. A lot of the doctors there are trained in the US and Europe. But it is expensive. Even so do a google on Bumrungrad and Death and see what appears. Buzzer.


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## synthia

I don't know that you are going to find what you want, really. One of your requirements is cheap, and cheap usually doesn't happen in countries that have it all together. I was very impressed with the medical care I got in Singapore, at an expensive private hospital. I don't think there was any differential pricing. Singapore is cheaper than the US but not nearly as cheap as Thailand. However, unless you are going to work and have a skill they need, they are not welcoming to foreigners.

I find Malaysians a lot friendlier, and it isn't that expensive here. They do have a residency program called 'Malaysia My Second Home'. Maybe you should check it out before you leave the area.

I've been to orthopedists in both Honduras and Peru, and both times I was charged more than double what locals said they would charge, and the locals had already adjusted for the 'foreign tourist' prices. The doctor in Peru waived a bunch of charges on my second visit, when he realized I wasn't a rich American with travel insurance but a poor backpacker staying in a dormitory with shared baths and no insurance at all.

You could look into Panama and Mexico. Mexico not only has a residency program but a cheap insurance program. Look at some of the posts in the Mexico forum here.


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## dwjarhead

*Thanks*



synthia said:


> Most insurance companies? In the US, the last I heard, only United Health Care would cover you.
> 
> What kind of medical insurance do you have?


Thanks for answering my e-mail. I currently have Pacifcare, a group plan through the school district. I will check into United Health Care.


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## synthia

I think United is the only one that sends people overseas for treatment. They don't do expat policies or anything like that.


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## oddball

A few years ago i had a heart attack in Bangkok , went to the BNH hospital . in intensive care for 5 days with some of the most pleasant staff i have ever encountered , the doctor was knowledgeable , pleasant to converse with and worked with me to get my medication right , which incidentaly , i only needed for 6 months because it was explained to me what i should NOT eat or do .The cost for this including take away drugs was $1,400.00 Canadian of which my health service payed half , i also used Bumrumgrad when i was pushed down stairs at a disco and split my head open , cost for emergency treatment and 8 stiches including removal ? B2,000 , about $50.00 Canadian , they are not cheap but they were very caring and attentive , maybe our friend is a grump !!!!!


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## synthia

Sometimes when people come from a country where doctors are expected to push people through and keep costs down, they misinterpret efforts to give them comprehensive care. I felt that way a bit during my recent spate of doctor's appointments and a hospital overnight. But, I have had a low-grade infection for a long time that is now cleared up, and got a lot of tests that I should have had done a couple of years ago. I feel reassured now, which is also important.


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## skycop51

Corruption is alive and if you are a Foreigner wow. Now have seen some surgeries that tell you the cost.

I again have Tricare Reps in Thailand to help with getting ripped off. Tragic some good care there apparently.

skycop51


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## skycop51

Gouge Americans seems to be the word in thailand. Its ashame, damn shame if you ask me.

skycop51


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## skycop51

*I think*



annamartha said:


> Well, hospital pharmacies are always more expensive. I can't believe you think that it is cheaper in the US, at least per procedure cost. But requiring a hospital stay for a colonoscopy is a bit much.
> 
> Where are you located, and what hospital did you go to?


You really have to stand up to them, that was a rip off by any terms.

skycop51


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## synthia

That used to be standard in the US. The other side of the coin is that the US pushes people out of hospitals before they are ready to go. It took a law to make insurance companies allow new mothers to even stay in the hospital for 24 hours after delivery, because the insurance companies figured the mother woudl be fine if there were no complications with the birth. The law got pushed through because the baby should be monitored for 24 hours, because that's when most problems crop up.


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## oddball

I am currently in Cambodia , you want to talk rip-offs and arrogance , just come here for the experience , i went to an American hospital( SOS) and was treated(?) by an Asean , costs exorbitant and he could not even tell me what my problem was !!!
Have recomended several expats to fly to Thailand and use BNH hospital , almost took my arm off shaking my hand when they got back to Cambodia , only one problem , where would one go for a heart attack ? Long way to Thailand . Colin


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## synthia

It's always a good idea to maintain expat insurance or traveler's insurance so that the cost of being med-evac'ed to the nearest acceptable hospital will be covered. Heart attacks are, of course, more of a problem since it is the time right after the heart attack that is most critical.

And if you want to complain about cost, try the US without insurance.


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## Erynn

I had worked at several teaching hospitals, there are many write-off policies to the homeless patients or unidentified 'farangs'. Without dignity, 'farangs' can also get free medical care in every public emergency room, even when one's drunk. Renal failure patient with transplant should stay close to university hospital such as Sirirat, Julalongkorn, Chiang Mai University. No private hospital will accept 'farang' without money, it's just not their specialty.


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## Ted88888

I've lived on Phuket for just short of seven years and have had excellent care for my family and myself at Bangkok Hospital (BKK), Bumrungrad Hospital and Bangkok Phuket Hospital. I found the doctors much more likely to spend some time talking to you and helping to solve your health problems - not at all like the rushed HMO doctors in the States.

Yeah - I too think they overdo the costs of medications at the major hospitals - but it is easy to politely refuse them - ask for the meds in an Rx - take them around the corner and get them filled for 1/2 to 1/5th of the cost. You do need to advocate for yourself. If you always open your wallet and give out what is asked - well . . . what can you expect?

My wife stayed in Bangkok Phuket Hospital about 3-4 years ago - for two weeks. The stay, including a colonoscopy, excellent care, doctor, take-home meds etc - about US$2000. (at the exchange rate at the time - don't forget the dollar has taken a HUGE dive in the last few years - not the Thais fault). That price was about what I paid for an emergency room visit in Tucson Arizona about 20 years ago.

Personally, I have been quite happy with the doctors here - and I HATE doctors in general and see them as bloodsucking **Bleep** (my bleep). But, most of them here are pretty good. I have had the good fortune to meet a few who really spent some time with me and helped solve some quite long-term nagging health issues that weren't well dealt with in the USA, Korea, Taiwan OR Saudi Arabia.

So - I like them here. My wife and I do have an agreement though to head to Singapore should we find ourselves with a SERIOUS health challenge for which we aren't sure what to do. Probably as good as you can get in Asia. I like St. Elizabeth's just off Orchard Rd.


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## Ted88888

synthia said:


> I've heard costs of as little as $3US per day for a health care worker to stay with you full time after surgery.


I fully agree that medical care can be excellent here, but what kind of "health care" would one hope to purchase for US$3 a day? My maid for three hours once a week costs more than that. The daily minimum wage here is more than that - closer to US$5 for someone working at 7-11 maybe.

Now, I fully expect to hire my maid full time when I get old and feeble and need looking after - but I suspect I will pay more than US$3! - and I won't expect her to provide much in the way of real "health care".

It is my thought that it is those people (who want $3 a day health care) who will complain about quality of care - no?


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## synthia

I heard the $3 per day rate, too, but it was for a fairly limitied service following bypass surgery. The 'health care workers' are trained to make sure prescribed medications are given, walks are taken, and high fat foods are avoided, as well as recognize problems and call an ambulance. They stay in the hotel room with the newly released patient, and, of course, get food.

You see young women in Chiang Mai walking with men who can barely put one foot in front of the other. That's not part of the sex trade, but part of medical tourism.


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## rrh

My son has been in Thailand for a couple of years now. He's recently moved north with his thai girlfriend to her home town- they're expecting a baby and she wants to be close to her parents.

However, my son is having trouble finding work and we're having to help him out.

Could anyone help advise me what sort of hospital / medical fees we should expect? baby's apparently due early august so not too far off.

Thanks


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## Guest

Hi rrh

Thai maternity hospital in Chiang Mai. Not a private hospital like the RAM, not the cheapest state hospital,

The costs, without complications, came to a total of about 150 euros. The costs at the RAM where a friend of ours went recently totalled something like six times that amount, private room included.


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## rrh

Thanks for that, will have a read this afternoon.


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## King Silk

There is lot of good advice here DWJ!
May I suggest you read the Good Health thread and my Post "I have to cut off your balls asap"

Medical care here in LOS is a big money making enterprise. Forget the 'Hypocritical Oath'......

At one time treatment was really inexpensive, but SO many people kept on telling them it was "SO CHEAP" that they put up the prices......

Also there is a big shortage of really well trained and experienced Quacks.

*[Defamatory comment deleted - FrB]*


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## KhwaamLap

Medical insurance here is a mixed blessing too. Western companies (their Asian offices or partners I guess) tend to over charge and under return from what I hear. There are good Thai policies, but Farangs never see them. I have a friend (friend's mum actually) who is a broker - she set me up with great cover for my whole family for less than 30k/year (4 of us) - it age dependant (babies are more, and it creeps up from 6 slowly until 55). coveres emergency as well as surgical, private rooms, after care, extras, just about everything to a good value - and as its the insurance company (Thai one at that) that is paying, they ake sure it goes well - they also registered me with the local hospital and got me a medical card so I can just walk in. Nice.


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## Guest

What happens when you reach 55, KL?! :confused2:


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## Serendipity2

synthia said:


> How much experience have you had with medical care without insurance in the US? An emergency room visit with a bit of lab work and an X-ray and a couple of shots resulted in a bill of $3500. I was there for a total of six hours. Have you checked to find out what an uninsured person pays for a colonoscopy in the US?
> 
> I have heard, though, that if you don't get everything agreed to in advance, the doctors can be a bit opportunistic. However, there was a recent article in the New York Times about a common practice among oncologists of putting patients through chemotherapy unnecessarily because the insurance companies cut treatment fees but they can make money on the in-office chemo.
> 
> I am another person who is quite disillusioned with Thailand. I spent the winter in Chiang Mai, a place I liked a lot back in the 90's. The first thing I noticed is that it is no longer the land of smiles. After a while the acceptance of corruption and the aggressive prostitutes and the ugly old men with the beautiful young Thai 'girlfriends' got to me. It probably shouldn't as I am an older female and none of it affects me really. But it did start to be an unpleasant aspect of the country. All in all, I've pretty much written it off as a retirement place. But all I had to do was pack my bag, get on a bus, and leave.



Synthia,

Had you been an illegal Mexican it would have been FREE - compliments of the over-taxed taxpayers of America. With a totally corrupt government.

As far as Chiang Mai is concerned it has changed from my first visit in the late 70's. Now it's much bigger, more expensive and the people really aren't as friendly as they once were. The world has also changed but I don't think Chiang Mai people look as friendly towards expats as they once did.

As for tiring of seeing ugly old gits with young women - if the women were ugly would that help? That has been going on all over the world since the beginning of time and always will. Most females are attracted to - money. Not all but most. If a guy is old and fat and ugly he can STILL be a rock star to some young lass who is struggling to survive Is it right? Yes, if they're happy or at least accepting of the situation. He trades money for sex and she trades sex for everything. If you have money I'm sure, fat or old or ugly, even expat women can find "true love" in Thailand. Sex - it's what makes the world go around and who's complaining? Them that ain't getting any. Them that are ain't complaining and probably don't give a rip about the ain't. 

As for being in ill health in Thailand - beware. Warm weather sounds great but the fact is it can be very harsh on your health. Flat out - people live longer and are healthier in colder climates. The two longest lived peoples are the Finns and the Japanese [northern Japanese] The shortest? Those who live in tropical climates. That said, in the northern climes people have a higher suicide rate and in warmer climes they tend to commit more murders. Choose your poison! 

Serendipity2


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## Serendipity2

frogblogger said:


> What happens when you reach 55, KL?! :confused2:



frogblogger,

Now you know why the Thai government wants you to have a slug of $$$ in a bank in Thailand. If you get sick or hurt or incapacitated they will take Great care of you - until your money is gone. Then, "so sorry and please be on next plane home". They don't plan on keeping their older citizens alive and they're certainly not going to keep you alive either. Life is for the young in Asia - that's why families are very close - survival. The government doesn't give a rip if you live or die - so long as you're flat broke when you go. Expect nothing from the Thai medical system and less from the government. When you arrive in Thailand, unless you brought health care coverage with you, you're self-insured. Now you know why they want that THB 800,000 in the bank. If/when you leave you get it back but if you stay you don't. 

Serendipity2


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## Serendipity2

Ted88888 said:


> I've lived on Phuket for just short of seven years and have had excellent care for my family and myself at Bangkok Hospital (BKK), Bumrungrad Hospital and Bangkok Phuket Hospital. I found the doctors much more likely to spend some time talking to you and helping to solve your health problems - not at all like the rushed HMO doctors in the States.
> 
> Yeah - I too think they overdo the costs of medications at the major hospitals - but it is easy to politely refuse them - ask for the meds in an Rx - take them around the corner and get them filled for 1/2 to 1/5th of the cost. You do need to advocate for yourself. If you always open your wallet and give out what is asked - well . . . what can you expect?
> 
> My wife stayed in Bangkok Phuket Hospital about 3-4 years ago - for two weeks. The stay, including a colonoscopy, excellent care, doctor, take-home meds etc - about US$2000. (at the exchange rate at the time - don't forget the dollar has taken a HUGE dive in the last few years - not the Thais fault). That price was about what I paid for an emergency room visit in Tucson Arizona about 20 years ago.
> 
> Personally, I have been quite happy with the doctors here - and I HATE doctors in general and see them as bloodsucking **Bleep** (my bleep). But, most of them here are pretty good. I have had the good fortune to meet a few who really spent some time with me and helped solve some quite long-term nagging health issues that weren't well dealt with in the USA, Korea, Taiwan OR Saudi Arabia.
> 
> So - I like them here. My wife and I do have an agreement though to head to Singapore should we find ourselves with a SERIOUS health challenge for which we aren't sure what to do. Probably as good as you can get in Asia. I like St. Elizabeth's just off Orchard Rd.



Ted88888,

My first trip to Bumrungrad hospital a few years back was impressive. Aside from the prices which were quite modest I was rushed to the head of most lines and had time to talk to my doctor. I was impressed. The second visit was quite the reverse. I was left sitting at every station [3-4 different] and no one helped me. Then I got to see my second doctor and he was an absolute disappointment. The two visits were 4-5 months apart but in that short time [around 2004-2005] Bangkok became known for cheap medical and the floodgates opened and everyone raised their prices. I could have dealt with the price increase but the sloppy medical practice and what by then had become overworked, unfriendly staff. 

One other thing you need to be aware of. If you have insurance your bill will be 10% -20% of what the bill will be if you do NOT have insurance. Same think happened to me in Australia. Had I been Canadian or English I would be under their health care system but I wasn't. I paid 6-7 times what I would have had I been a citizen. I paid full bore retail for everything and did they stick it too me If you can, get insurance. If you can't - have a LOT of money and they will surely lighten your load.


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## King Silk

Serendipity2 said:


> frogblogger,
> 
> Now you know why the Thai government wants you to have a slug of $$$ in a bank in Thailand. If you get sick or hurt or incapacitated they will take Great care of you - until your money is gone. Then, "so sorry and please be on next plane home". They don't plan on keeping their older citizens alive and they're certainly not going to keep you alive either. Life is for the young in Asia - that's why families are very close - survival. The government doesn't give a rip if you live or die - so long as you're flat broke when you go. Expect nothing from the Thai medical system and less from the government. When you arrive in Thailand, unless you brought health care coverage with you, you're self-insured. Now you know why they want that THB 800,000 in the bank. If/when you leave you get it back but if you stay you don't.
> 
> Serendipity2


:clap2: Well said S2 :clap2: (Knew you'd get The Clap one day, way you are going.....)


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## Guest

Come again, S2? You've lost me there. I can take the 800,000 (400,000 if married) out of the bank any time I wish.

In every country in the world the health system has to be paid for somehow or other. Either it's "free" (and we pay for it with higher taxes), or it's partly subsidised (you pay extra tax AND you take out separate medical insurance), or it's unsubsidised (you cover the costs yourself). If you're not impoverished, it boils down to the same thing. If you're poor, you suffer in the latter system.

In developing/Third World countries, for obvious reasons, there is little state-subsidised health care. It's nothing to do with caring or not caring, it's a matter of reaching the stage in development where a democracy decides this is a priority and that minimum health care for all is both desirable and affordable.

People pay very little in income taxes, if you want a state health service, better roads etc, Thailand will need to see higher income per capita and we're a long way from that right now.


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## KhwaamLap

frogblogger said:


> What happens when you reach 55, KL?! :confused2:


I guess they have a different plan - As I'm under 40 (a smidging) and have young kids, I only looked at the plan that was for families (and I guess they expect families with parents over 55 to have adult children with their own healthcare plans). I dare say they will quote for it, just wasn't on the schedule I saw.

...or maybe its Soilent Green :eyebrows:


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## Serendipity2

King Silk said:


> :clap2: Well said S2 :clap2: (Knew you'd get The Clap one day, way you are going.....)



Silk,

Hey, I've got a social disease!


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## Serendipity2

frogblogger said:


> Come again, S2? You've lost me there. I can take the 800,000 (400,000 if married) out of the bank any time I wish.
> 
> In every country in the world the health system has to be paid for somehow or other. Either it's "free" (and we pay for it with higher taxes), or it's partly subsidised (you pay extra tax AND you take out separate medical insurance), or it's unsubsidised (you cover the costs yourself). If you're not impoverished, it boils down to the same thing. If you're poor, you suffer in the latter system.
> 
> In developing/Third World countries, for obvious reasons, there is little state-subsidised health care. It's nothing to do with caring or not caring, it's a matter of reaching the stage in development where a democracy decides this is a priority and that minimum health care for all is both desirable and affordable.
> 
> People pay very little in income taxes, if you want a state health service, better roads etc, Thailand will need to see higher income per capita and we're a long way from that right now.



frogblogger,

I think when you take your THB 800,000 [for singles - not sure what rules are for married] out of the bank you no longer qualify for an A-O??? visa. From my reading of the rules you can take out any time but then you lose that visa status.

The people of most third world countries including Thailand have minimal health care for it's people. The wealthy are willing to pay and the rest are given very minimal care. Expats are presumed wealthy and get charged full bore unless they have some insurance but as you get older it's much harder to find insurance. Every country has a different threshold age but certainly by 70 no one is going to insure you that I've heard. This isn't a dig on Thailand but a reality. They flat don't have the money BUT it's our job to make sure that WE can afford to provide for ourselves as it's not the government's job to do so. I would guess most expats have no in-country insurance or that if they do it has a pretty low upper age limit. I'm sure there are knowledgeable people on this forum who have insurance in Thailand that can provide some good information as I'm no expert on health care in anywhere but my home country and it's so convoluted no one can understand it - expect to know they either do or do not have coverage. That said, if you're an illegal just go to the ER and they'll take care of you. If an American citizen - forget about it. The first thing they will want from you is who you're covered by for health / accident and if you aren't they will direct you somewhere else. Great government we have - the BEST money can buy. :/

Serendipity2


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