# Risks in using a legal address which isn't ?



## lat19n (Aug 19, 2017)

I know given the current state of the world, a little white 'fib' might not get you in a lot of trouble (considering) but I do believe there are real consequences to using another person's address as your legal address 'may' land you in some hot water. 

Kind of along the theme with all these people who were trying to get there kids into good schools. A lot of people cook-up addresses in places where they want to go to state universities (like Florida ). 

I'm not trying to preach - but I have made a serious effort to be honest with all the past 
relationships we had in the US. Principally because of my concern for the exposure of the people on the other side - those people whose address I might be using.

There are so many unforeseen entanglements. You tell the IRS you don't need US healthcare because you are living full-time in Mexico. Yet you claim you live in Florida for some purposes (for example) ?


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## lagoloo (Apr 12, 2011)

I like to keep my life simple, so at first, I just used a P.O. Box in Texas for getting mail forwarded. This didn't work for everything. Then I changed my address for all official purposes to my home address in Mexico. This hasn't resulted in any problems over the past several years. The bank situation was solved by opening a U.S. account with an institution that caters to government employees overseas and expats.
I can't think of a reason why an expat needs to use a U.S. fictional address. Maybe others can?


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## lat19n (Aug 19, 2017)

I put a little time into researching this topic this afternoon. Apparently using/misrepresenting your address gets labelled as 'address fraud'. The penalties vary and principally come down to 'intent'.

When we left the US we had our mail forwarded to a friend's address. I think that lasted perhaps 3 months or so. We used that as a means of determining who we needed to contact. Interestingly - the Sup of Elections (different county) picked up on that change of address (without any interaction with us) and set us up to vote via mail. 

I do know this. There are a LOT of address implications when it comes to money. For example - if you happen to have an annuity it is written using the rules for the State you live in. If you leave that State and later decide to 'annuitize' - your options will be severely limited. 

I do know that somewhere in the closet I have a currently 'valid' driver's license (which really isn't still valid as I no longer live in that State). I probably should get an international license - but I think they are only good for a year.


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

lagoloo said:


> …
> I can't think of a reason why an expat needs to use a U.S. fictional address. Maybe others can?





lat19n said:


> …
> I do know that somewhere in the closet I have a currently 'valid' driver's license (which really isn't still valid as I no longer live in that State). I probably should get an international license - but I think they are only good for a year.



I can tell you why I use a US address for some things. 

The IRS, the Registrar of Voters, some investment accounts, and most other contacts have my Mexican address. However, the bank where I keep an account with a debit and a credit card and have banked for about 60 years has my son's address. At one point I gave them my Mexican address, then every time I wanted to change anything, they asked me to come into a branch and make the change in person. Obviously that was not very convenient. So, on one trip to the US, I changed it to my son's address in the US. Now I can make changes online. 

Speaking of driver's licenses. I have a Mexican driver's license, actually two, one for cars and another for motorcycles. They are good for five years and were some of the easiest Mexican documentation to acquire. They are half price for seniors. My US driver's license expired long ago.


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## lagoloo (Apr 12, 2011)

Most of the people who use a fictional address say that they do so for banking reasons. We changed banks instead. We had been with the original bank for years. But whatever works for you and feels okay is what you should do.


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## lat19n (Aug 19, 2017)

TundraGreen said:


> Speaking of driver's licenses. I have a Mexican driver's license, actually two, one for cars and another for motorcycles. They are good for five years and were some of the easiest Mexican documentation to acquire. They are half price for seniors. My US driver's license expired long ago.


I also have a Mexican driver's license. I kind of like that it has my organ donor choice and blood type info on it. We don't travel to the US often - maybe last time was five years ago or so. When you walk up to the car rental desk at the airport, is your Mexican license seen as equivalent to a US license ? Are insurance related issues the same ?

When I received my last US license it had a life of 10 years. If that is true of all 50 states, I suspect there are a lot of people driving around the US with 'invalid' licenses. And there is a kind of chicken and egg situation. When you decide to move (anywhere) what is the status of the license before you next visit the motor vehicle office ?


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

lat19n said:


> I also have a Mexican driver's license. I kind of like that it has my organ donor choice and blood type info on it. We don't travel to the US often - maybe last time was five years ago or so. When you walk up to the car rental desk at the airport, is your Mexican license seen as equivalent to a US license ? Are insurance related issues the same ?
> 
> When I received my last US license it had a life of 10 years. If that is true of all 50 states, I suspect there are a lot of people driving around the US with 'invalid' licenses. And there is a kind of chicken and egg situation. When you decide to move (anywhere) what is the status of the license before you next visit the motor vehicle office ?


I have had no problem renting cars with my Mexican driver's license. Since I don't carry US car insurance and don't trust the claims that my credit card will cover problems, I always pay for full insurance coverage from the car rental company. It doubles the cost of the rental. But that has nothing to do with the country of origin of my license.

I would be surprised if there are "a lot of people" with invalid licenses, but I suppose it depends on how you define "a lot". My impression is that driving without a license is a serious offense in the US and if you are stopped for any reason, even a burned out tail light, the first thing they do is ask for your license.

I think your license is good until it expires even if you change states, but most states have rules requiring you to get a license from the state you live in within some time period. 

I once had a Colorado license stolen while I was living in Mexico. That was when I first got a Mexican driver's license. I had a rental reserved and needed a license immediately, During a trip immediately after that I was in California. So I went to the DMV there and was able to get a California driver's license using the address of a friend at the time. I was in their system because I had had a California driver's license 15 years prior, and I guess you can check out of the CA DMV system but you can never leave.


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## lat19n (Aug 19, 2017)

I've never lived in CA although I did meet my wife in Marin County . I'm going off on a tangent but I always thought that ownership of a CA driver's license was one criteria used as to whether a person had severed their tax responsibilities there.

When Equifax had its data breach a while back I contacted all three of the credit agencies and locked my reports. These are massive data companies and yet they could not accommodate our Mexican address. In fact - they insisted that since they could not change our address properly - that the only address they will use is the last address on file (which was a long ago sold house). One or two of those companies insisted that the password I would need to unlock the reports could only be physically mailed to that erroneous address. I never received them...

Edit : On that topic - I suspect that Mexico also has credit tracking agencies. Anyone ever look into those reports ?


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## lat19n (Aug 19, 2017)

I did find this site :

Buró de Crédito

But - I suspect they are going to want a real RFC (which I do not have).


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

big surprise. Mexico has a credit bureau..and banks give out loans and credit cards..


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## lat19n (Aug 19, 2017)

citlali said:


> big surprise. Mexico has a credit bureau..and banks give out loans and credit cards..


Good grief - I apologize for my post. 

Ya know - this site is going through some changes. (I hope that comment isn't some sort of infraction).


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## Bodega (Apr 20, 2016)

“I have had no problem renting cars with my Mexican driver's license. Since I don't carry US car insurance and don't trust the claims that my credit card will cover problems, I always pay for full insurance coverage from the car rental company. It doubles the cost of the rental. But that has nothing to do with the country of origin of my license.

I would be surprised if there are "a lot of people" with invalid licenses, but I suppose it depends on how you define "a lot". My impression is that driving without a license is a serious offense in the US and if you are stopped for any reason, even a burned out tail light, the first thing they do is ask for your license.

I think your license is good until it expires even if you change states, but most states have rules requiring you to get a license from the state you live in within some time period. 

I once had a Colorado license stolen while I was living in Mexico. That was when I first got a Mexican driver's license. I had a rental reserved and needed a license immediately, During a trip immediately after that I was in California. So I went to the DMV there and was able to get a California driver's license using the address of a friend at the time. I was in their system because I had had a California driver's license 15 years prior, and I guess you can check out of the CA DMV system but you can never leave.“


Love this post by TG. Not only is it full of useful info, it closes with one of the cleverest lines this site has ever been blessed with, IMO.


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

I had a problem once , in France with a small local company because there was some rule that you could only rent after you had driven so many years and my license had just been renewed.. Same thing happened to Australians who were with me. Now I ave a permanent license from Chiapas and no problems..


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

citlali said:


> I had a problem once , in France with a small local company because there was some rule that you could only rent after you had driven so many years and my license had just been renewed.. Same thing happened to Australians who were with me. Now I ave a permanent license from Chiapas and no problems..


Chiapas licenses are permanent? That is nice. Jalisco driver's licenses are only good for 4 years. Fortunately they are pretty easy to renew.


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

the high priced ones are permanent , the only problem is that is you have to change anything you cannot do it unless you pay the fee again unlike the temporary ones.


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## Meritorious-MasoMenos (Apr 17, 2014)

lat19n said:


> I put a little time into researching this topic this afternoon. Apparently using/misrepresenting your address gets labelled as 'address fraud'. The penalties vary and principally come down to 'intent'.
> 
> When we left the US we had our mail forwarded to a friend's address. I think that lasted perhaps 3 months or so. We used that as a means of determining who we needed to contact. Interestingly - the Sup of Elections (different county) picked up on that change of address (without any interaction with us) and set us up to vote via mail.
> 
> ...


I'll be you were a great hall monitor, back in the day.


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

Yesterday I got a lesson in the hazards of having a Mexican address. I received a letter from the IRS. The IRS has my real address in Guadalajara. The letter was issued on May 6th of this year and said I owed some additional money because I made an error on my tax forms in April. It said I had until May 27th to pay. After that date there will be additional fines. I received the letter on June 5th.

I paid online as soon as I got the letter. I am hoping they will wave the additional fine incurred by missing the deadline.


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## LoggedIn (Nov 21, 2017)

citlali said:


> big surprise. Mexico has a credit bureau..and banks give out loans and credit cards..


Gnarly.


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

Why assume the worst of Mexico?? They have Mexican and International banks who do the same exact thing as in the States or Europe . Why should it be a surprise?
The banks here are out for the banks like in any other country ,the things that are differwnt is that the do not have the consumer protection laws here they do in the States so that is the thing to watch out for.. not the credit buro..

If you want to get loans , yeas you should check the credit buro but since the rates are outrafeaous.. ot is irreleabt for people who have some money n the bank in the US or Canada.


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## Meritorious-MasoMenos (Apr 17, 2014)

lat19n said:


> I know given the current state of the world, a little white 'fib' might not get you in a lot of trouble (considering) but I do believe there are real consequences to using another person's address as your legal address 'may' land you in some hot water.
> 
> Kind of along the theme with all these people who were trying to get there kids into good schools. A lot of people cook-up addresses in places where they want to go to state universities (like Florida ).
> 
> ...


I'm no law expert nut far as I know from two decades working abroad, U.S. gov't doesn't you to give up all property or even legal address to get out of income taxes up to a certain amount (though not FICA), just spend 30 days or less in every year (or I think every day period).

I don'y know about getting out of Medicare payments. I wouldn't myself. Making the payment gives you right to Medicare coverage immediately and also right to buy Medicare plus if live brings you back to US.


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## lagoloo (Apr 12, 2011)

Our "are you alive?" letters from the SSA arrived in a timely way at our Mexican home address they have on file, but that's not true of all mail. One cousin's Christmas cards arrive sometime in the spring.
I'm not sure what was meant by "getting out of" Medicare payments. Part A comes automatically with the Social Security benefit at no additional charge. Part B is an added cost and can only be used in the U.S. If dropped and later reinstated, there is a large penalty, so it really depends on your level of commitment to live out your life in Mexico...or not. That, of course, is often dependent on factors way out of our control.


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

We just got our are you alive letters.. which always arrive very late when they arrive.. I also never got delivery from Amazon that was sent in December.. I can say the Mexican mail is very unreliable and if something is important or urgent .. do not send it that way.


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## 1happykamper (Nov 5, 2012)

It's hearsay that if I use an overseas address then each year I'm supposed to get a letter from SSA confirming that I'm still alive... the form needs my signature, a witness and a notary I believe.

So I use a USA address to prevent issues.

Maybe someone can confirm this thinking? 

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk


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## lagoloo (Apr 12, 2011)

Not so. My "are you alive" letter arrives at my Mexican home address and requires only my signature. You only need a witness if you are signing with a "mark". Nothing about needing a notary. I don't know for certain, but it's likely that everyone on SS gets this yearly form to return regardless of where they live. The boxes to check re changes in status would apply to all recipients.

Using an address that is not your own can create other issues. I like to keep life simple.


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## Ajijic Lady (Jan 19, 2009)

lagoloo said:


> Not so. My "are you alive" letter arrives at my Mexican home address and requires only my signature. You only need a witness if you are signing with a "mark". Nothing about needing a notary. * I don't know for certain, but it's likely that everyone on SS gets this yearly form to return regardless of where they live. * The boxes to check re changes in status would apply to all recipients.
> 
> Using an address that is not your own can create other issues. I like to keep life simple.


 You are only sent this letter if you live outside the US. Inside the US, death certificate info goes to SS, hence they will know when you are no longer eligible for benefits. Overseas, reporting a death to SS is not automatic. Hence the annual letter.


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## lagoloo (Apr 12, 2011)

You're right, Ajijic Lady. I just looked it up and found this:

https://blog.ssa.gov/social-security-benefits-u-s-citizens-outside-the-united-states/


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

no need to have the response notorized, you just sign the form and return it. If you do not which has happened to us as we do not always get the letter, your payments stop..


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

1happykamper said:


> It's hearsay that if I use an overseas address then each year I'm supposed to get a letter from SSA confirming that I'm still alive... the form needs my signature, a witness and a notary I believe.
> 
> So I use a USA address to prevent issues.
> 
> ...


Totally false.
Social Security does not care if you live abroad, many non US citizens receive SS. I am French, worked for 30 years in the US and retired n Mexico. I have no US address no green card and I receive SS . The SS people in Guadalajara told me we do not care if you are a ******* if you are entitled to SS you will receive it no matter where.. SO now you can be reassure and stop using a phony address

There is no need to get anything notorized or iitnessed either . You sign and return if you have problems you talk to the people in Guadalajara or where ever the nearest office for SS is.


I did have a green card for 30 years but I lost it when I moved to Mexico and became a resident here .


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