# Making the move! Quantity Surveyor



## si_qs (Aug 22, 2017)

Good morning everyone, I hope you're all well..

My partner and I have been umming and arrring for a couple of years now about emigrating, and have never fully gone through with it, but now we have decided to do it. 

I'm English, and my partner is half English/half Moroccan, we aren't officially married but we probably will before we come out as we have 2 daughters. 

I'm a Quantity Surveyor, I'm degree qualified (BSc Hons) and have 6 years working experience, working my way up, and now classify as a Senior Quantity Surveyor. 
What is the construction industry like in Dubai at the moment? I know it's not the boom it once was a few years ago, but what are rough salary/package expectations?

My partner has a couple of businesses running in the UK currently, but has been applying for work in Dubai also. I read on another thread about Real Estate/Wealth Management positions, with some concerns, could someone clarify further? She has been invited to interview for a Real Estate company with a basic salary of £80 - 100k British pounds before commission?


----------



## Stevesolar (Dec 21, 2012)

Hi,
Welcome to the forum.
Construction industry is very competitive and even as a qualified QS - you will be up against candidates from lower cost countries.
Regarding your wife (with 2 daughters you really need to look at getting married before you come here) - Estate agents and wealth management are probably hated here even more than they are in the UK!
Wealth management is totally unregulated and commission only - so tough to make money.
Estate agency is also mainly commission based - rarely with a base salary - especially at the levels you mention.
Cheers
Steve


----------



## si_qs (Aug 22, 2017)

Stevesolar said:


> Hi,
> Welcome to the forum.
> Construction industry is very competitive and even as a qualified QS - you will be up against candidates from lower cost countries.
> Regarding your wife (with 2 daughters you really need to look at getting married before you come here) - Estate agents and wealth management are probably hated here even more than they are in the UK!
> ...


Hi Steve, 

Thank you for your response. 

Is it best to be Islamic married as well as normal UK marriage?

That's my concern with work, I have seen such a varied salary scale, I can't determine what is realistic. 

My partner is speaking with a couple of companies, and then we can gauge a basic salary. 

Would it be recommended (depending on what she's offered) to potentially move out on the basis that she has secured work and then find a Quantity Surveyor role whilst I am there?


----------



## UKExpat2017 (May 15, 2017)

si_qs said:


> Hi Steve,
> 
> Thank you for your response.
> 
> ...


Normal marriage is fine. But you will have to get the document formally attested in the UK.

I don't know what the market is like for a QS. If your partner is able to secure a role out here for the sums you mentioned, she could support you. It will be tight until you find a role. In addition, don't forget other factors (e.g. schools for your children, school fees, etc.). But you have to ask yourself why you are moving out here in the first place. The cost of living here is very expensive and if you move here and aren't better off than if you stayed in the UK, its not really worth it.


----------



## si_qs (Aug 22, 2017)

UKExpat2017 said:


> Normal marriage is fine. But you will have to get the document formally attested in the UK.
> 
> I don't know what the market is like for a QS. If your partner is able to secure a role out here for the sums you mentioned, she could support you. It will be tight until you find a role. In addition, don't forget other factors (e.g. schools for your children, school fees, etc.). But you have to ask yourself why you are moving out here in the first place. The cost of living here is very expensive and if you move here and aren't better off than if you stayed in the UK, its not really worth it.


The roles are being advertised, but I don't know how recruitment agencies work in Dubai. I'm trying to network on LinkedIn with other QS's/Recruitment departments for companies rather than going through an agent. 

Children aren't school age yet, we have another year before the first one starts. 

We want to move for a new experience, better weather, better money, better lifestyle. We both know it's not a short term thing, and have said a minimum of 5 years but want to be there longer.


----------



## Sunder (Mar 11, 2014)

si_qs said:


> The roles are being advertised, but I don't know how recruitment agencies work in Dubai. I'm trying to network on LinkedIn with other QS's/Recruitment departments for companies rather than going through an agent.
> 
> Children aren't school age yet, we have another year before the first one starts.
> 
> We want to move for a new experience, better weather, better money, better lifestyle. We both know it's not a short term thing, and have said a minimum of 5 years but want to be there longer.


I believe experience in UK is highly ranked rather than here. 
Weather its only 4-5 months of better weather, rest you will find out once you are here.
Better money - I doubt whether you will get an extravagant package.
Better Lifestyle - will only be possible if you get a nice package, but with 2 about to school going kids I find it is going to be tough in future.

In the end, you need to save more than what are you saving currently, that's should be the primary objective.


----------



## UKExpat2017 (May 15, 2017)

si_qs said:


> The roles are being advertised, but I don't know how recruitment agencies work in Dubai. I'm trying to network on LinkedIn with other QS's/Recruitment departments for companies rather than going through an agent.
> 
> Children aren't school age yet, we have another year before the first one starts.
> 
> We want to move for a new experience, better weather, better money, better lifestyle. We both know it's not a short term thing, and have said a minimum of 5 years but want to be there longer.


By way of background, I just made the move myself, so I can tell you about my experience.

I looked at job adverts on a website (I'm in the legal sector) whilst still in the UK. A lot of the positions were advertised by recruitment agencies, who effectively act as a filter and tell you once you speak to them, whether you are suitable or not. Also had a few places headhunt me off LinkedIn. 

Once they speak to their client, you do the interview (Skype for me) and any technical tests which they require. Then the long game....the waiting....such a long wait. Whole process took roughly 3-4 months, which I am told is really quick out here! 

So effectively, its the usual recruitment process but with a much longer time period.

I would suggest browsing through your main industry online job portal and seek opportunities stating Dubai as the location. Apply and hopefully have a discussion with the person who you submitted your application to (usually a recruiter). Tell them you are only interested in Dubai and they should then tell you what other roles they have available.

Regarding money. I can't tell you, how great it was, when I received my first payslip with absolutely no reductions! Money was the main motivator, followed by lifestyle (for my wife and new born). Be realistic with your expected salary, yes, it will be tax free, but everything really is expensive here. Think London rates. I wouldn't move for less than a 60% uplift.


----------



## si_qs (Aug 22, 2017)

UKExpat2017 said:


> By way of background, I just made the move myself, so I can tell you about my experience.
> 
> I looked at job adverts on a website (I'm in the legal sector) whilst still in the UK. A lot of the positions were advertised by recruitment agencies, who effectively act as a filter and tell you once you speak to them, whether you are suitable or not. Also had a few places headhunt me off LinkedIn.
> 
> ...



Thank you for the detailed response. I have only just got LinkedIn so will build up my profile again and hopefully appeal to someone. I've applied for a few roles,and today I have applied for quite a lot more. When I've applied previously here in the UK, the recruiter has called near enough instantly and then said the role I applied for isn't available but they have others, they then add me to their system and call me repeatedly. Was expecting the same thing for Dubai to be honest.

I'm working and was living in London so I'm used to the higher rates. When you say everything is really expensive here, what does that qualify as, rent? Shopping? Eating out? 

I mean, other than crazy rental prices, that's the only increase I've seen in London.


----------



## rsinner (Feb 3, 2009)

si_qs said:


> Would it be recommended (depending on what she's offered) to potentially move out on the basis that she has secured work and then find a Quantity Surveyor role whilst I am there?


Absolutely not. The base salary she will get for the types of role you have mentioned will definitely not be enough. Generally you need to get into a year long contract for rentals (or live in expensive hotel apartments month to month). But most importantly, schooling is very expensive and for two children it will be prohibitive without a steady income. 

What is you don't get a job, or it takes 6 months to get a job. How will you survive for 6 months? Moving without any certainty works for single people or couples who can rough it out if need be, not with kids.


----------



## rsinner (Feb 3, 2009)

si_qs said:


> Thank you for the detailed response. I have only just got LinkedIn so will build up my profile again and hopefully appeal to someone. I've applied for a few roles,and today I have applied for quite a lot more. When I've applied previously here in the UK, the recruiter has called near enough instantly and then said the role I applied for isn't available but they have others, they then add me to their system and call me repeatedly. Was expecting the same thing for Dubai to be honest.
> 
> I'm working and was living in London so I'm used to the higher rates. When you say everything is really expensive here, what does that qualify as, rent? Shopping? Eating out?
> 
> I mean, other than crazy rental prices, that's the only increase I've seen in London.


Dubai is actually cheaper than London. But cash flow and lack of flexibility is an issue - rentals and even school fees are paid upfront, or in 2-3 installments for the year. For the remaining payments you need to give post dated cheques, bouncing of which is a criminal offense. So you need to be sure and plan ahead.

You should read the sticky threads (threads at the top of the forum, and highlighted in a different colour) to get an idea of the expenses and issues in living here. You clearly haven't done enough research yet.


----------



## UKExpat2017 (May 15, 2017)

si_qs said:


> Thank you for the detailed response. I have only just got LinkedIn so will build up my profile again and hopefully appeal to someone. I've applied for a few roles,and today I have applied for quite a lot more. When I've applied previously here in the UK, the recruiter has called near enough instantly and then said the role I applied for isn't available but they have others, they then add me to their system and call me repeatedly. Was expecting the same thing for Dubai to be honest.
> 
> I'm working and was living in London so I'm used to the higher rates. When you say everything is really expensive here, what does that qualify as, rent? Shopping? Eating out?
> 
> I mean, other than crazy rental prices, that's the only increase I've seen in London.


Unfortunately, that's the way it works. The recruiter I used, was one which had a good reputation within the UK but had people out in Dubai. I would odinarily say, you want to limit your chosen recruiters to a select few, but from my experience (in the legal sector) for Dubai, I found that various different recruiters had roles which the others weren't aware of. Plus, you don't want to have all your eggs in a few baskets.

Rents are the killer. I have not yet moved into an apartment yet, as it works out cheaper and more convenient to live in a hotel until the Mrs and baby come out. For a 3 star hotel for 30 nights, it works out to be 1,300GBP. Do bear in mind that it is off peak season. A 2 bed apartment can be anywhere from 20-30k GBP a year (for a nice place in a good location) and the way the rent system works is, you usually have to pony up the rent in four equal payments via cheque.

School fees - 10k GBP a year for each child excluding clothes, equipment, etc.

Lunch - There are cheap options like a subway, KFC, etc. which average at about 7-8GBP.


----------



## si_qs (Aug 22, 2017)

UKExpat2017 said:


> Unfortunately, that's the way it works. The recruiter I used, was one which had a good reputation within the UK but had people out in Dubai. I would odinarily say, you want to limit your chosen recruiters to a select few, but from my experience (in the legal sector) for Dubai, I found that various different recruiters had roles which the others weren't aware of. Plus, you don't want to have all your eggs in a few baskets.
> 
> Rents are the killer. I have not yet moved into an apartment yet, as it works out cheaper and more convenient to live in a hotel until the Mrs and baby come out. For a 3 star hotel for 30 nights, it works out to be 1,300GBP. Do bear in mind that it is off peak season. A 2 bed apartment can be anywhere from 20-30k GBP a year (for a nice place in a good location) and the way the rent system works is, you usually have to pony up the rent in four equal payments via cheque.
> 
> ...


Yeah I tend to find that spreading over numerous recruiters work best, but I always make sure they ask me prior to submitting my CV to stop it appearing on the same employers desk twice!

I've read up regarding rental payments previously, but I have seen on Dubizzle that rent can be paid monthly? Or is that just a marketing opportunity?



rsinner said:


> Absolutely not. The base salary she will get for the types of role you have mentioned will definitely not be enough. Generally you need to get into a year long contract for rentals (or live in expensive hotel apartments month to month). But most importantly, schooling is very expensive and for two children it will be prohibitive without a steady income.
> 
> What is you don't get a job, or it takes 6 months to get a job. How will you survive for 6 months? Moving without any certainty works for single people or couples who can rough it out if need be, not with kids.


That was my biggest concern. I would definitely want secured work prior to moving. 



rsinner said:


> Dubai is actually cheaper than London. But cash flow and lack of flexibility is an issue - rentals and even school fees are paid upfront, or in 2-3 installments for the year. For the remaining payments you need to give post dated cheques, bouncing of which is a criminal offense. So you need to be sure and plan ahead.
> 
> You should read the sticky threads (threads at the top of the forum, and highlighted in a different colour) to get an idea of the expenses and issues in living here. You clearly haven't done enough research yet.


My first child isn't due into school until September next year (If school years works the same way) so between now and then we have a bit of time. The next one will be in school September 2020 so don't really have to worry about her for now. 

I earn circa £80k now, so we are just building up some backup funds to help with the possibility of a relocation. 

I definitely need to continue with my research.

Thank you.


----------



## UKExpat2017 (May 15, 2017)

Dubizzle is ok. But try propertyfinder.ae as well. Regarding the property market at the moment, it seems to be a tenants market as rents have come down in recent months. It's not surprising that some landlords are willing to accept monthly cheques. But just assume quarterly cheques for most properties. 

Yeah. Definitely try and secure a role whilst in the UK. This forum is full of people asking whether it is worth coming here first and then finding a job. The process is sooooooo long and unless you have substantial savings, you will likely run out of funds before landing a role. 

£80k gbp? So what are your expectations here then? I wouldn't recommend ever accepting a job for less money even if it is tax free.


----------



## Stevesolar (Dec 21, 2012)

si_qs said:


> Yeah I tend to find that spreading over numerous recruiters work best, but I always make sure they ask me prior to submitting my CV to stop it appearing on the same employers desk twice!
> 
> I've read up regarding rental payments previously, but I have seen on Dubizzle that rent can be paid monthly? Or is that just a marketing opportunity?
> 
> ...


Hi,
Have you considered childcare if both of you work?
Before school age there are nurseries and you could always hire a nanny - but these would still be quite expensive.
Once your kids are at school - don't forget that schools here tend to finish quite early in the afternoon - so there is often a gap between school finishing and normal working day ending.
Cheers
Steve


----------



## twowheelsgood (Feb 21, 2013)

It all hinges on marriage.

No marriage means you'll never get a married persons allowance from an employer. In which case, your kids won't get residency and so schools wouldnt accept them into the intake.

It doesnt matter how much money you earn - no EID and the schools simply wont accept you.


----------



## notallwhowonderarelost (Aug 16, 2017)

si_qs said:


> Yeah I tend to find that spreading over numerous recruiters work best, but I always make sure they ask me prior to submitting my CV to stop it appearing on the same employers desk twice!
> 
> I've read up regarding rental payments previously, but I have seen on Dubizzle that rent can be paid monthly? Or is that just a marketing opportunity?
> 
> ...


Hi, I have very recently moved out here as a Senior QS with 7 years experience and am on a package not much over what your on now if using an exchange rate of 5:1 on basis it is not necessarily going to stay below 5 forever (see Xe graphs).

Obviously there is no tax to pay so that is the uplift and I am in a lucky position that my other half is a teacher and she gets accommodation provided so we didn't have the hassle of searching and sorting it out or the pain of paying for it every month. I was working in London for a while and the demand there for QS's is phenomenal, not the same here just now as a I have a friend back home also looking for 3 months now without getting an offer. There is ongoing work in infrastructure especially, it just depends when the projects are getting the funding to go ahead and then they want people to start very quickly. What areas are your main experience in and have you used FIDIC before? 

I dealt with a few recruiters (one bad, one good) as well as getting a few approaches via LinkdIn and the ranges I was being quoted were AED30-40k per month all in paid as cash and then you sort out your own accommodation, car etc. 

This is a big uplift to most of UK for Senior QS but no so much London. We're going to be able to live off here wage (less optional holidays) and save the majority of mine. Different story with a child and accommodation costs.


----------

