# suicidal pedestrians



## banana plant (Mar 15, 2016)

a recent event I witnessed involving a car and a pedestrian using a crossing has got me thinking is it just me or does anybody else think the way some pedestrians just step out onto a crossing without even looking first or even giving the vehicle some distance to stop in time without braking hard is bordering on the suicidal? I appreciate it would appear that the person has the right of way (no problems with that), but surely just stepping out into moving traffic is a bit silly, I was following a car on my bike along the road at about 40/50 kph when this woman with her back to the traffic just turned 90 degrees to her left and stepped out, you could hear the chirping of the cars tyres as the anti-lock kicked in. I use the road every day either as a car driver/motorbiker or as a cyclist and the times I have had to brake quite hard to stop in the distance that the person gives you is ridiculous, I am not talking about the people who walk up to the crossing and you can clearly see that they intend to use the crossing so you can easily stop in time, but the ones that just step out in front of you. And yes I can 'read' the road and I also do not go 'boy racing' around town.


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

banana plant said:


> a recent event I witnessed involving a car and a pedestrian using a crossing has got me thinking is it just me or does anybody else think the way some pedestrians just step out onto a crossing without even looking first or even giving the vehicle some distance to stop in time without braking hard is bordering on the suicidal? I appreciate it would appear that the person has the right of way (no problems with that), but surely just stepping out into moving traffic is a bit silly, I was following a car on my bike along the road at about 40/50 kph when this woman with her back to the traffic just turned 90 degrees to her left and stepped out, you could hear the chirping of the cars tyres as the anti-lock kicked in. I use the road every day either as a car driver/motorbiker or as a cyclist and the times I have had to brake quite hard to stop in the distance that the person gives you is ridiculous, I am not talking about the people who walk up to the crossing and you can clearly see that they intend to use the crossing so you can easily stop in time, but the ones that just step out in front of you. And yes I can 'read' the road and I also do not go 'boy racing' around town.


Yep, I absolutely agree!

Many pedestrians are of the belief (and maybe quite correctly) that they have the right of way - but surely self-preservation must kick in at some point.


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## Pazcat (Mar 24, 2010)

Well they do have right of way regardless but I agree, a touch of common sense wouldn't go astray. 
Mind you the same can be said for motorists and cyclists who do some really dangerous things too.


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## AllHeart (Nov 22, 2013)

Perhaps it's a symptom of the recession?


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

I think there are faults on both sides. Some pedestrians no doubt do step out without looking - but my husband and I have experienced literally having to jump out of the way when we've actually been in the middle of a pedestrian crossing and a driver who isn't paying attention (talking to a passenger or on a mobile phone) has simply kept going. I always try to judge how far an oncoming car is from a crossing before I step on to it, and that it's at least slowing down, before I step out. On the whole I find drivers are pretty good at stopping to let people cross - which, of course, they are supposed to do if anyone is waiting at a crossing.


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## jimenato (Nov 21, 2009)

I have often wondered whether pedestrians actually have right of way over crossings in Spain because of the lack of respect given to them by drivers. 

I've seen people waiting at the side of the road while car after car drives past seemingly oblivious. Indeed I was told by one Spanish passenger that I was being too cautious and need not stop unless people they were actually crossing. 

I have also wondered whether Spanish drivers who come to the UK are warned that crossings in the UK work differently and they can't just drive across them like they do in Spain - pedestrians will cross them assuming they have right of way which of course they do. 

Crossing design doesn't help either. I doubt you would see an uncontrolled crossing on a dual carriageway in the UK but they are common in Spain and dangerous.

So - yes. Anyone in Spain who uses a crossing without exercising extreme caution is taking a huge risk.


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

jimenato said:


> I have often wondered whether pedestrians actually have right of way over crossings in Spain because of the lack of respect given to them by drivers.



I believe the law is (but correct me if anyone knows different);

Red and white striped crossings - cars MUST stop for pedestrians.

Black and white striped crossings - common courtesy applies.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Just a couple of months ago i remarked to my daughter (Spanish, 21) about how I'd seen a rise in "uncontrolled crossings". I used to keep an eye out especially for youngsters, the very young as they could dash out without thinking and the young because they are often wearing headphones, on the mobile etc. Now it's anyone, young, old, plugged into something or not. Pedestrians seem to have lost the will to live because as the title says, pedestrians have become suicidal


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

People who don't drive often have no appreciation or understanding of stopping distances. If I want to use a crossing I NEVER set foot on it until cars coming in both directions have stopped and I also make sure in a dual carriageway that some **** in the outer lane doesn't come charging up without stopping.
Another silly thing is crossing with your dog trailing behind you on a long lead. A car driver can easily not see the poor dog, especially if it's small, once its owner is safely on the pavement but it is still on the crossing.
A friend once saw a small dog killed in that way in Marbella. The car driver drove on, maybe unaware of what s/he had done, leaving a mangled pet and a distraught owner.
Once I had one beer with a friend. Driving home an idiot stepped out in front of me. I was able to brake and cursed her in three languages. It occurred to me that if I'd hit the silly woman and had been breathalysed I could have been in trouble...


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## 90199 (Mar 21, 2010)

Pedestrian crossings here, drivers park their vehicles thereon.


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## jimenato (Nov 21, 2009)

Hepa said:


> Pedestrian crossings here, drivers park their vehicles thereon.


Same where we were once there was no room left on the roundabouts.

The pavement next to the crossings was where the old men used to gather to gossip and look like they were about to cross.


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## el romeral (May 8, 2012)

I have always thought that in Spain, the car is king and keep that in mind and ensure traffic has seen me and is going to, or has stopped before I step out. The crossing problem is compounded in my area, by the idiotic parking right up to and often accross the crossings. Really makes it tricky then. If someone walks out from behind a parked car you cant see them and stop in time.


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## gus-lopez (Jan 4, 2010)

I found running them down helped them understand that they needed to exercise more care.


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## Relyat (Sep 29, 2013)

snikpoh said:


> I believe the law is (but correct me if anyone knows different);
> 
> Red and white striped crossings - cars MUST stop for pedestrians.
> 
> Black and white striped crossings - common courtesy applies.


A little info here:-



Different Coloured Pedestrian Crossings | N332 - Driving In Spain


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## Desiato (Jun 1, 2015)

Eastbourne attracts a high number of foreign exchange students in the summer and many years back I noticed the difference between the locals and the foreign exchange kids when crossing on zebra crossings. The locals (of all ages) would stop, look at the car approaching and having made eye contact with the driver (and seen the car start to slow down), would then start to cross the road. The exchange kids did exactly has been described above, stepped straight out without looking and seemed genuinely surprised when cars honked their horns at them. It was clear to me then as it is now that they have always stepped straight out onto crossings and expect cars to stop. The Spanish drivers have got used to this and have evolved eyes in the back of their heads, there also seems to be an unwritten law that says "you can step out in front of me but I decide whether to stop or drive around you". 

Thankfully, driving round the centre of London developed my 360' peripheral vision which has also come in handy for spotting the motorcyclists overtaking you on all sides.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

New zebra crossings that light up devized by a Spanish, well Catalan company. See the 27 second video of the crossing in action (in Camrils Tarragona)





They have been installed in a few other Spanish cities too, but I can't remember where and they are looking at using this kind of system for some lighting on motorways too. (not zebra crossings obviously )


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## AllHeart (Nov 22, 2013)

That's brilliant!!!


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## Horlics (Sep 27, 2011)

Here in Javea it seems the norm for drivers to give you a "thank you" wave as they drive over a crossing after seeing you waiting to step out.

Drivers need to be careful of pedestrians in Javea because we're all concentrating on avoiding all this effin dog s**t.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

jimenato said:


> I have often wondered whether pedestrians actually have right of way over crossings in Spain because of the lack of respect given to them by drivers.
> 
> I've seen people waiting at the side of the road while car after car drives past seemingly oblivious. Indeed I was told by one Spanish passenger that I was being too cautious and need not stop unless people they were actually crossing.
> 
> ...


Around here, the rule is that cars must stop if anyone is approaching a pedestrian crossing with the apparent intention of crossing.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Pesky Wesky said:


> New zebra crossings that light up devized by a Spanish, well Catalan company. See the 27 second video of the crossing in action (in Camrils Tarragona)
> Paso de peatones inteligente, España - YouTube
> 
> They have been installed in a few other Spanish cities too, but I can't remember where and they are looking at using this kind of system for some lighting on motorways too. (not zebra crossings obviously )


It would make more sense if it lit up with a red light instead of a pedestrian crossing sign.


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## mayotom (Nov 8, 2008)

banana plant said:


> a recent event I witnessed involving a car and a pedestrian using a crossing has got me thinking is it just me or does anybody else think the way some pedestrians just step out onto a crossing without even looking first or even giving the vehicle some distance to stop in time without braking hard is bordering on the suicidal? I appreciate it would appear that the person has the right of way (no problems with that), but surely just stepping out into moving traffic is a bit silly, I was following a car on my bike along the road at about 40/50 kph when this woman with her back to the traffic just turned 90 degrees to her left and stepped out, you could hear the chirping of the cars tyres as the anti-lock kicked in. I use the road every day either as a car driver/motorbiker or as a cyclist and the times I have had to brake quite hard to stop in the distance that the person gives you is ridiculous, I am not talking about the people who walk up to the crossing and you can clearly see that they intend to use the crossing so you can easily stop in time, but the ones that just step out in front of you. And yes I can 'read' the road and I also do not go 'boy racing' around town.


Its a two way street as far as I can see, I regularly Step onto a crossing with clear intentions to cross, but cars just drive through obliviously, to the point where I just knock on their windows as they pass. As a driver, I often stop as crossings where people appear to be waiting to cross, but they just turn away or wave me on, very Frustrating.

the other concerning trend I see is at traffic lights Cars racing to beat the lights, while the people stopped at the red are revving to go and sometimes watch the counter on the pedestrian crossing and move off while still red, This has already led to one Death in Marbella earlier this year and if not addressed properly will lead to more


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## Gazeebo (Jan 23, 2015)

Whilst driving in Javea for 6 months we found many kamikaze pedestrians crossing on zebra crossings, those who look as though they are walking on but do a sudden 90 degrees turn, cross whilst on a mobile, cross wearing earphones, shove a pushchair first, all of whom neither stopped or looked, and I would say they were an every day occurrence.  I have always been taught to stop, look and not cross until the traffic has stopped to let me cross - is that so hard? I also have the habit of putting my hand up in a thank you gesture to show my appreciation for the driver's courtesy - perhaps I am too polite and 'old fashioned', but at least that way I have a better chance of 
survival. :fingerscrossed: I also found it rather odd that huge refuse bins would be placed right up to the zebra crossings and cars allowed to park right up to them, thereby obstructing the view of people trying to cross. Also, I would question whether placing crossings directly on the exit of a roundabout is 
safe. :confused2: Those who are careless and get knocked over should also consider the impact on the driver.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

I was told (by a policia local) that it didn't used to be obligatory for drivers to stop at zebra crossings, but the law changed about ten years ago. Now you have to stop if a pedestrian has one foot on the crossing or if they are looking left and holding up their hand. If you don't stop you are committing an offence and can get penalty points. 

Maybe some non-driving pedestrians thought than when stopping became obligatory, that meant they could sail across without a care. But it's also common for drivers to drift out of side-roads into the main road while checking their Whatsapp. Maybe they think Nuestra Señora will protect them!


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## Gazeebo (Jan 23, 2015)

Alcalaina said:


> I was told (by a policia local) that it didn't used to be obligatory for drivers to stop at zebra crossings, but the law changed about ten years ago. Now you have to stop if a pedestrian has one foot on the crossing or if they are looking left and holding up their hand. If you don't stop you are committing an offence and can get penalty points.
> 
> Maybe some non-driving pedestrians thought than when stopping became obligatory, that meant they could sail across without a care. But it's also common for drivers to drift out of side-roads into the main road while checking their Whatsapp. Maybe they think Nuestra Señora will protect them!


Now looking left and holding up a hand would be a good start.


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## bob_bob (Jan 5, 2011)

The amount of dings, dents and scratches on Spanish cars surely gives an overall indication of the level of driving in Spain?...That said its no better in Italy and Greece from personal observation.


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## Leper (May 12, 2010)

I have been noticing behaviour at pedestrian crossings for a number of years. In fact, I could publish the study for digestion by later surviving generations. Pedestrian (Zebra) Crossings on the Costas are the modern equivalent of one nation trying to wipe out other nations on the grounds that they are interfering with the need to get somewhere other than work.

Case No 1:- It is 2.00pm. Miguel the Spaniard has just listened to babbling English thinking individuals in their usual conversation of "You are not serious . . ." "Really, . . ." "Go onnnnnn . . ." These conversations have eaten into his departure for siesta. But, the non Spanish speaking expats want to talk about toasters and towel holders.

Result:- Miguel sits into his car that has no chance of surviving an MOT because the people who think in English always keep theirs in impeccable condition. Well, that's the theory and like any other temporary expat story, it sticks. Therefore, he drives (along with all the other Miguels) down through the fences of Zebra Crossings and when he approaches Sobre-Elevado he knows how a Grand National jockey thinks nearing Becher's Brook. The loser here is the pedestrian.

Case No 2:- It is 4.50pm (3.50pm in the UK) and Miguel is driving in the opposite direction to restart work at 5.00pm. The same thinking-in-English people are still using the crossings. Miguel will concede at every jump, even Becher's Brook. He might even assist the person to cross the road. He is not bothered at what time he will reach his Ferreteria workplace. This of course will be the subject of conversation of the same thinking-in-English bothered about everything brigade.

Result:- Miguel and his compatriots suffer changes of personality at different times during the day. Think like them and you will be safer crossing the road. 

Next personality change 9.00pm when driving home, again having been delayed by those mentioned above. 

8.50am:- No problem. The temp. expat. community is still in bed, but Miguel has to work. This leads to a minor kind of little known schizophrenia over time. It is untreatable, but thought to run its course over 45 years if contracted at 20.

Case No 3:- Involves the Spanish female of the species. Far more dangerous than Miguel and the disease is contracted earlier and promotes more aggressive actions. More about this later. I must consult my notes.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

bob_bob said:


> The amount of dings, dents and scratches on Spanish cars surely gives an overall indication of the level of driving in Spain?...That said its no better in Italy and Greece from personal observation.


Not quite. A lot are caused by trying to navigate one's way round extremely tight corners and narrow streets, further complicated by badly parked vehicles in many towns and villages.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

baldilocks said:


> Not quite. A lot are caused by trying to navigate one's way round extremely tight corners and narrow streets, further complicated by badly parked vehicles in many towns and villages.


Well, I live in a village with very steep narrow streets and I'm amazed at how well the locals cope with these. Yet our neighbour has bumped us so many times with his towbar while parking that the OH is thinking of tying a balloon to it. It's lack of concentration, rather than skill, that's the problem IMO.


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## Ash Jez (Feb 17, 2013)

Relyat said:


> A little info here:-
> 
> 
> 
> Different Coloured Pedestrian Crossings | N332 - Driving In Spain


 I'm colour blind so does the law apply to me also.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Leper said:


> I have been noticing behaviour at pedestrian crossings for a number of years. In fact, I could publish the study for digestion by later surviving generations. Pedestrian (Zebra) Crossings on the Costas are the modern equivalent of one nation trying to wipe out other nations on the grounds that they are interfering with the need to get somewhere other than work.
> 
> Case No 1:- It is 2.00pm. Miguel the Spaniard has just listened to babbling English thinking individuals in their usual conversation of "You are not serious . . ." "Really, . . ." "Go onnnnnn . . ." These conversations have eaten into his departure for siesta. But, the non Spanish speaking expats want to talk about toasters and towel holders.
> 
> ...


Really?
]I think Leper the Irish might want to do more research into what the Moroccan, Algerian, Ecuadorian, Colombian, Romanian and Spanish pedistrian is doing, because that's who we've got in this area, and the problems are the same.
Ie nationality has nothing to do with it, not on the part of the driver nor the pedestrain. Nor does age, nor sex. All I can say is that the majority of pedestrians do not look sufficiently well before they step out onto the crossing, but I haven't asked them to give me a passport before they can cross.


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## gus-lopez (Jan 4, 2010)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Really?
> All I can say is that the majority of pedestrians do not look sufficiently well before they step out onto the crossing, )


Any idea what they are suffering from ?:lol:


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## Ash Jez (Feb 17, 2013)

gus-lopez said:


> Any idea what they are suffering from ?:lol:


 Death wish syndrome


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## Pazcat (Mar 24, 2010)

I also like the ones who walk on the roads a bit out of town, who knows where they come from or where they are going but they certainly want to get the most out of their tax dollars considering they could walk 4 feet to the side off the road completely.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Pazcat said:


> I also like the ones who walk on the roads a bit out of town, who knows where they come from or where they are going but they certainly want to get the most out of their tax dollars considering they could walk 4 feet to the side off the road completely.


Depends. In many cases there is a drainage ditch


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## Pazcat (Mar 24, 2010)

Well unless it is wet then I'd happily walk in the ditch or think just a little bit and go the otherside of the ditch, but that is me. I certainly wouldn't want to be walking or on a bike on the roads here the way people drive.
They don't even use a footpath when one is available, it seems you must walk with your entire family, push chairs and dogs in the middle of the road.

But I think it is the same thing for car drivers, bike riders, walkers, people in the supermarket that there is a sense of entitlement and be damned what anyone else is doing.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

gus-lopez said:


> Any idea what they are suffering from ?:lol:


Suffering from?

Maybe from a lack of awareness, lack of road education/ road savvy, common sense.
Lack of the crossing the road gene which becomes dormant on Spanish soil?
:noidea:


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## Leper (May 12, 2010)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Really?
> ]I think Leper the Irish might want to do more research into what the Moroccan, Algerian, Ecuadorian, Colombian, Romanian and Spanish pedistrian is doing, because that's who we've got in this area, and the problems are the same.
> Ie nationality has nothing to do with it, not on the part of the driver nor the pedestrain. Nor does age, nor sex. All I can say is that the majority of pedestrians do not look sufficiently well before they step out onto the crossing, but I haven't asked them to give me a passport before they can cross.


You're wrong there Pesky. Please note in my previous post I was talking about the male Spanish Ferreteria worker who drives during his working day. It was only half my argument. I have yet to come to Maria José who works in a supermarket and also uses the road in her new car.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Leper said:


> You're wrong there Pesky. Please note in my previous post I was talking about the male Spanish Ferreteria worker who drives during his working day. It was only half my argument. I have yet to come to Maria José who works in a supermarket and also uses the road in her new car.


Strange, :confused2:I thought it was you who was wrong!Hahaha

All I wanted to say in my post was that I don't relate at all to what you were saying in post 26 about the Spanish driver and the British pedestarians talking in English.

The population is, so the pedestrians and drivers in the town where I am are 83% Spanish, according to latest stats. The largest groups of immigrants are Magrebiés, South Americans (don't know specific countries), Romanians and a big etc which includes British and Americans. The people who are most likely to be walking out in front of Spanish driven cars are more than likely to be Spanish and if not, they are not going to be talking in English, but in Arabic or Spanish.

Different area different reality


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## Leper (May 12, 2010)

Right Pesky, I promised I'd come back with the 2nd part of my post regarding the Spanish psyche regarding English speaking pedestrians on Zebra Crossings especially the dreaded Sobre Elevado Crossings. Before I start, I am talking about English speaking pedestrians and all are not necessarily from the UK. We speak English in Ireland too. (Or in the interests of clarity should I say Southern Ireland, although there is no such country as Southern Ireland? Any time I explain this to other English speaking nationalities they look at me like I had just grown antlers).

Maria-José has just bought her first car. She works in the local supermarket for a pittance and in some restaurants as needed for a lesser pittance. She is university educated and sees herself ten years from now still working part-time in the supermarket and part-time in the restaurants. Her English is perfect and she is married to a gob****e who cannot come to terms that Real Madrid has not yet discovered him. She is sick of what she thinks are rich English speaking expats resident in Spain for years who have not ten words of Spanish. She has little or no chance of ever owning a home as the expat community have driven up the price of property. She might even be paying rent to one of that community.

She's had it with nagging expat women whinging about the price of sliced bread, Heinz baked beans and some other non Spanish products. With the labour market as it is in Spain she knows she is easily replaceable in her jobs and despite everything she cannot offer any defence in her thinking. She has got to grin and bear every conversation.

So, Maria-José sits into her car every morning and with more commitment than say most Spanish males, wants to arrive in the supermarket workplace on time. God help anybody leeching across any pedestrian crossing and immediately send for a priest or vicar if the pedestrian is English speaking. This is the same on driving home for her siesta and even on her subsequent return to work. Even when she finishes in the supermarket circa 8.00pm or later she must rush to the restaurant to again serve those she already served in the supermarket. With maintenance, petrol, road taxes, etc she has less to spend and will probably be broke forever.

Maria-José gets some overfed, vodka injested, English speaking victim in her cross-hairs on the road. There is only going to be one winner.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Leper said:


> Right Pesky, I promised I'd come back with the 2nd part of my post regarding the Spanish psyche regarding English speaking pedestrians on Zebra Crossings especially the dreaded Sobre Elevado Crossings. Before I start, I am talking about English speaking pedestrians and all are not necessarily from the UK. We speak English in Ireland too. (Or in the interests of clarity should I say Southern Ireland, although there is no such country as Southern Ireland? Any time I explain this to other English speaking nationalities they look at me like I had just grown antlers).
> 
> Maria-José has just bought her first car. She works in the local supermarket for a pittance and in some restaurants as needed for a lesser pittance. She is university educated and sees herself ten years from now still working part-time in the supermarket and part-time in the restaurants. Her English is perfect and she is married to a gob****e who cannot come to terms that Real Madrid has not yet discovered him. She is sick of what she thinks are rich English speaking expats resident in Spain for years who have not ten words of Spanish. She has little or no chance of ever owning a home as the expat community have driven up the price of property. She might even be paying rent to one of that community.
> 
> ...


And still not getting it here in the Sierra de Guadarrama, where nationality and language do not affect road crossing skills, but you're obviously enjoying yourself...


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## Relyat (Sep 29, 2013)

As am I


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

What did I say about drivers not stopping when pedestrians are already crossing being just as much of a problem? This poor woman was actually on a crossing when she was hit at speed by this scumbag, who didn't even stop to call for help and was arrested later in a bar. I hope he gets a long sentence.


Spanish mother killed in hit and run by British man already facing trial over separate murder | Daily Mail Online


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## banana plant (Mar 15, 2016)

Lynn R said:


> What did I say about drivers not stopping when pedestrians are already crossing being just as much of a problem? This poor woman was actually on a crossing when she was hit at speed by this scumbag, who didn't even stop to call for help and was arrested later in a bar. I hope he gets a long sentence.
> 
> 
> Spanish mother killed in hit and run by British man already facing trial over separate murder | Daily Mail Online


leaving somebody at the side of the road like that just sums up what type of person he is, by all means panic and leave but at least have the decency to phone the emergency services.


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## Leper (May 12, 2010)

I often wonder if there is need for a stress relief driving track in most areas (even in Ireland and UK also as bad driving is not confined to Spain). They do not have to be concrete or tarmacadam; a dust track will serve stressed drivers better and us too. Then you can leave the loony drivers onto the track, preferably in hordes and leave them all compete against themselves and unsupervised.

(Please note:- This post is not meant to be humorous).


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Leper said:


> I often wonder if there is need for a stress relief driving track in most areas (even in Ireland and UK also as bad driving is not confined to Spain). They do not have to be concrete or tarmacadam; a dust track will serve stressed drivers better and us too. Then you can leave the loony drivers onto the track, preferably in hordes and leave them all compete against themselves and unsupervised.
> 
> (Please note:- This post is not meant to be humorous).


But it did make me laugh...


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