# Moving to North London - Questions about area, etc.



## MissingMO (Oct 13, 2011)

Hello,
My husband and I will be moving to the Islington area in December. DH's office will be in the new (?) Angel building in Islington. We would ideally like to live nearby, but would be okay with a 30 minute to 1 hour commute if necessary. Does anyone know what specific neighborhoods to concentrate our flat search? What areas seem to be the most convenient to tube/bus stops, shopping, etc? 

A few other questions...

DH's company will provide a cell phone for him, but I will need to get a plan. Preferably, I would like something that offers an international text plan, as I would like to be in daily contact with my mom and sister back in the states. I'm not as worried about making international calls because I will have Facetime/Skype available to me. I would also like a data plan. Is prepaid the best way to go? Or a monthly bill? What mobile company has the best coverage? Reliability? Prices?

I make decorative personalized painted signs here in the states, and am interested in continuing my crafting in the UK. What type of outlets are there for selling crafts? Will I need some sort of permit? Do I have to create a business (I would prefer to avoid that)? 

Finally, DH and I live pretty frugally. I use coupons all the time and cook the majority of our meals. I even make our own breads, jams, yogurt, etc. I realize that London is very expensive. How can I save the most at the grocery store? Are coupon/vouchers available in the UK? Are there any good money saving websites/blogs? Any bulk bin food stores (bulk spices, flours, yeast, etc.)? 

Sorry this is so long! And thanks in advance for any information you can provide. DH and I are really looking forward to our move to the UK!:clap2:


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

MissingMO said:


> Hello,
> My husband and I will be moving to the Islington area in December. DH's office will be in the new (?) Angel building in Islington. We would ideally like to live nearby, but would be okay with a 30 minute to 1 hour commute if necessary. Does anyone know what specific neighborhoods to concentrate our flat search? What areas seem to be the most convenient to tube/bus stops, shopping, etc?


Islington is an attractive, chic, arty sort of place so very popular, but also expensive. Slightly cheaper areas nearby include Hackney, Stoke Newington and Holloway.



> A few other questions...
> 
> DH's company will provide a cell phone for him, but I will need to get a plan. Preferably, I would like something that offers an international text plan, as I would like to be in daily contact with my mom and sister back in the states. I'm not as worried about making international calls because I will have Facetime/Skype available to me. I would also like a data plan. Is prepaid the best way to go? Or a monthly bill? What mobile company has the best coverage? Reliability? Prices?


You may not have any choice but to get pay-as-you-go phone at least to start with because you have no credit history in UK and so will fail credit check. Some may allow you to take out a contract against cash deposit, but it depends on individual circumstances and company policy, which remains a commercial secret. In any case for a contract you need a UK bank account, which can be a hassle to open for recent arrivals. Just look at current offers when you move over. In London there isn't much to choose between networks (there are five in UK, plus many more 'virtual' ones). If you want independent advice, spurn network-operated shops and go for independents like the huge Carphone Warehouse, which has shops in just about every shopping street.



> I make decorative personalized painted signs here in the states, and am interested in continuing my crafting in the UK. What type of outlets are there for selling crafts? Will I need some sort of permit? Do I have to create a business (I would prefer to avoid that)?


There is eBay of course, and in nearby Camden there is a large market where a lot of artists display and sell their wares. You can also try selling directly to shops, but they demand at least 100% margin, or on sale and return. No permit needed as your dependant visa will allow you to work. You don't have to set up a business entity but simply work as a sole trader. You will have to register with the tax people as self-employed, and you work out your own profit and tax due using self-assessment tax return each year. Around the first £7500 you make each year is tax-free.



> Finally, DH and I live pretty frugally. I use coupons all the time and cook the majority of our meals. I even make our own breads, jams, yogurt, etc. I realize that London is very expensive. How can I save the most at the grocery store? Are coupon/vouchers available in the UK? Are there any good money saving websites/blogs? Any bulk bin food stores (bulk spices, flours, yeast, etc.)?


Coupons and discount sites have become very popular and there are very many websites telling you about vouchers and codes. Most are for online purchase, but some you can print out and use in shops etc. Voucher Codes, Discount Codes, Promotional Codes, Money Off Coupons, Online Shopping ? MyVoucherCodes, UK Voucher Codes | free discount codes & money off vouchers ? moneysupermarket.com, Discount Vouchers - Today's Voucher Codes and Discount Codes October 2011. Also popular are cashback sites like https://www.quidco.com/home/. British supermarkets are quite competitive, esp among the big three of Tesco, Asda (owned by Walmart) and Sainsbury's . There are also discount chains like Aldi and Lidl. Street markets can be a cheap source of fresh fruit and vegetables.


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## nyclon (Apr 3, 2011)

I would suggest looking for things along the Northern Line which is the tube that serves Islington. Additionally, you can check the Transport for London website for bus routes:

Buses | Transport for London

This website can help you research specific neighborhoods:

UK house prices, property, crime, local neighbourhood & schools | UpMyStreet

Something else to think about is that the farther you get from Central London, the cheaper (relatively speaking) things get.

Coupons are generally referred to as vouchers here, but couponing simply doesn't exist in the UK on the same level as in the US. You will not find Sunday papers crammed with cents off coupons. On occasion, a Sunday paper might have a coupon/voucher for a specific item at a specific shop or for a discount at a restaurant. You'll have to dig for things like the links above. Watch out for store 3 for 2 specials or 1/2 off specials or buy 1 get 1 free or 1/2 off. What they do have is loyalty card schemes whereby you get points every time you shop which you can use to pay for purchases or are converted into vouchers which you can use in the shop. Check out Boots and Tesco for their loyalty schemes. There are plenty more. Occasionally the shop where you have a loyalty card may send you a cents off voucher to use in store or to get extra points. My local area has a loyalty card which is good for different things in different shops in the area from 10% off a meal at a restaurant, 10% off at a clothing shop, free drink with a meal, when you present the card. 

Other money saving websites:
Extreme Savings-Coupons -who has the best strategy?Please share your ideas/savings - MoneySavingExpert.com Forums
HotUKDeals - Deals, Discounts & Voucher Codes
beforeIshop? - coupons, vouchers & discount codes - Print And Save[/
Supersavvyme[/

As to bulk buying, large sizes of anything are hard to come by in London and flats are small with a minimum storage space so this is not surprising.


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## beckya (Oct 14, 2011)

I moved to Islington when I came here - its such a nice area, I really recommend it!


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## MissingMO (Oct 13, 2011)

beckya said:


> I moved to Islington when I came here - its such a nice area, I really recommend it!


Are you still living in the Islington area? Or in a area nearby? We are going on a home finding trip in November and really hoping we can narrow down our favorite areas. Safety and convenience to transit seem to be on the top of our list. Any areas near Islington to avoid???


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## Kato_Au_Placard (Oct 5, 2011)

i know angel and islington - its very chic and 'rough' at same time - lot of kids with knives trying to be rambo - couple of murders on upper st, basically dont wave your purse around and be discreet, the 'problem' for expats there is that there are council flats (how selfish of the poor) bang in the middle of rich developments. Lots of rat runs for the scumbag kids to run away too after nicking your handbag - dont be too alarmed lot of people live there ane have no problems but its not idylic belive me


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## MissingMO (Oct 13, 2011)

Kato_Au_Placard said:


> i know angel and islington - its very chic and 'rough' at same time - lot of kids with knives trying to be rambo - couple of murders on upper st, basically dont wave your purse around and be discreet, the 'problem' for expats there is that there are council flats (how selfish of the poor) bang in the middle of rich developments. Lots of rat runs for the scumbag kids to run away too after nicking your handbag - dont be too alarmed lot of people live there ane have no problems but its not idylic belive me


So, it there an area nearby that you would consider safer? We don't mind having a bit of a commute as long as we feel comfortable in the neighborhood.


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## nyclon (Apr 3, 2011)

Kato_Au_Placard said:


> i know angel and islington - its very chic and 'rough' at same time - lot of kids with knives trying to be rambo - couple of murders on upper st, basically dont wave your purse around and be discreet, the 'problem' for expats there is that there are council flats (how selfish of the poor) bang in the middle of rich developments. Lots of rat runs for the scumbag kids to run away too after nicking your handbag - dont be too alarmed lot of people live there ane have no problems but its not idylic belive me


I know Angel and Islington as well and have always felt very comfortable there. When exactly were these murders on Upper Street?


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## rifleman (Jun 24, 2011)

I grew up on one of those council estates. To be frank anyone who is uncomfortable living near the angel is unlikely to feel safe anywhere in London.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

rifleman said:


> I grew up on one of those council estates. To be frank anyone who is uncomfortable living near the angel is unlikely to feel safe anywhere in London.


So true! Unless you live in one a few exclusive areas without any social deprivation like Mayfair or Belgravia, there is always a possibility that just round the corner there is an area of social housing with a higher crime and nuisance levels than the private housing areas surrounding it. I don't want to label people but that's the way it is. You just can't get away from it in most parts of London, even in generally affluent areas. You just have to use common sense and be streetwise about personal safety and so on, which most Londoners manage without too much problems.


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## Kato_Au_Placard (Oct 5, 2011)

canadian tourist killed near the business devt centre , stabbed by a yob about 5 yrs ago,suppose you didin't notice


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## rifleman (Jun 24, 2011)

Joppa said:


> So true! Unless you live in one a few exclusive areas without any social deprivation like Mayfair or Belgravia, there is always a possibility that just round the corner there is an area of social housing with a higher crime and nuisance levels than the private housing areas surrounding it. I don't want to label people but that's the way it is. You just can't get away from it in most parts of London, even in generally affluent areas. You just have to use common sense and be streetwise about personal safety and so on, which most Londoners manage without too much problems.


And of course if you are lucky enough to live somewhere like Mayfair, don't be suprised if you get targeted because of your wealth, as Bernie Ecclestone did recently. Being a resident of such areas is no guarantee of safety.


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## nyclon (Apr 3, 2011)

Kato_Au_Placard said:


> canadian tourist killed near the business devt centre , stabbed by a yob about 5 yrs ago,suppose you didin't notice


So, to put things in perspective, by stabbings in Islington what you actually meant was 1 stabbing 5 or more years ago of a tourist who was quite possibly in the wrong place at the wrong time. That's terrible, of course, and no area of London is perfect as others have said but I'm sure evidence of ancient crimes can be dug up in even the most affluent areas. That doesn't make them undesirable places to live. As Joppa said, common sense and awareness of your personal surroundings go a long way. 

MissingMO, only you are going to know whether a neighborhood is right for you and feels comfortable for you. Once you come up with a short list, spend some time in each of those neighborhoods, have lunch, check out the local shops, side streets, etc.


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## Kato_Au_Placard (Oct 5, 2011)

nyclon said:


> So, to put things in perspective, by stabbings in Islington what you actually meant was 1 stabbing 5 or more years ago of a tourist who was quite possibly in the wrong place at the wrong time. That's terrible, of course, and no area of London is perfect as others have said but I'm sure evidence of ancient crimes can be dug up in even the most affluent areas. That doesn't make them undesirable places to live. As Joppa said, common sense and awareness of your personal surroundings go a long way.
> 
> MissingMO, only you are going to know whether a neighborhood is right for you and feels comfortable for you. Once you come up with a short list, spend some time in each of those neighborhoods, have lunch, check out the local shops, side streets, etc.


please don't distort what i said, there were numerous stabbings in that area, i don't live there any more as i am an expat:focus: the people in nagasaki were in the wrong place at the wrong time - doesn't mean i want to live there,- i was just giving my realistic experiences having worked there and lived in all areas including areas with more crime- me, i was never afraid at night to go out but i was sensible - the fact is this person is an expat and saying to her - oh i have lived there I am a londoner - we never have any problems does not really give here an inkling into what a new person with different accent may have to take into account. Islington is as bad/good as hackney. In fact in my opinion it is worse. Because the young gangs no where the rich live and more of them live in islington than other areas. 

light reading.............
1 don't worry about the Adams Family (wikipedia)....

2 Man dies, another fights for life in Islington double shooting | News

3 Jessie Wright Murder: Teenager Was 'Probably Strangled' | UK News | Sky News (teenager strangled- ok not stabbed)

4. Just for the underground pleasant place 2006 One person murder at highbury and Islington train station (Don't worry it was 5 years ago in the past:clap2:

Need I go on


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## Kato_Au_Placard (Oct 5, 2011)

MissingMO said:


> So, it there an area nearby that you would consider safer? We don't mind having a bit of a commute as long as we feel comfortable in the neighborhood.


Richmond has good travel links to highbury and islington but that is a long commute I think its about 1 hour. but your still able to consider yourself as living in london at least...A lot of people prefer the long commutes to avoid the high prices and crime. Question of lifestyle. Areas I would suggest not to live in (I know very well these areas and never suffered crime personally but anyway we are mature adults capable of empathy:ranger: - hackney (the 'new' islington' , personally hate the place and would rather live in harlem, Finsbury park, similar to islington but doesnt have the nice shops. Further north you have places like Enfield, which are not particularly nice. Moral of the story crime is everywhere, the trap is to go to a place thinking you can do what you want and there will never be any crime- sorry does not exist anywhere in the capital.. What you could consider is living in a place that is technically north of london but on the line which serves highbury and islington. Giving you a one hour commute Places like hereford, stevenage etc, there you would risk feeling isolated however


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Kato_Au_Placard said:


> Places like *hereford*, stevenage etc, there you would risk feeling isolated however


Surely you mean *Hertford*? Hereford is on the Welsh border, and not even a helicopter will get you to London in an hour!


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## MissingMO (Oct 13, 2011)

Joppa said:


> There is eBay of course, and in nearby Camden there is a large market where a lot of artists display and sell their wares. You can also try selling directly to shops, but they demand at least 100% margin, or on sale and return. No permit needed as your dependant visa will allow you to work. You don't have to set up a business entity but simply work as a sole trader. You will have to register with the tax people as self-employed, and you work out your own profit and tax due using self-assessment tax return each year. Around the first £7500 you make each year is tax-free.
> 
> 
> 
> .


"You will have to register with the tax people as self-employed, and you work out your own profit and tax due using self-assessment tax return each year. Around the first £7500 you make each year is tax-free."

Is this true no matter what tax bracket we are in as a married couple? I will pay tax based only on what I make individually if I am self employed?


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## hoofer27 (Sep 12, 2011)

Joppa said:


> So true! Unless you live in one a few exclusive areas without any social deprivation like Mayfair or Belgravia, there is always a possibility that just round the corner there is an area of social housing with a higher crime and nuisance levels than the private housing areas surrounding it. I don't want to label people but that's the way it is. You just can't get away from it in most parts of London, even in generally affluent areas. You just have to use common sense and be streetwise about personal safety and so on, which most Londoners manage without too much problems.


MissingMO

I have lived in Islington (with my American wife) for the last 26 years. I am a Met Police Officer about to retire. Islington is, in my view, no better or worse than most of the boroughs that form a ring around Westminster. I think the biggest culture shock for you will be the English attitude to alcohol. Public drunkenness is not frowned on here, indeed at times it feels as if it might be compulsory. Islington has a thriving "night time economy" which means you will encounter many drunks if you are out in the evening. They are a nuisance but for the most part, not at all dangerous. As for robbery and street crime, contrary to media views, most victims are young people, as are most perpetrators. 
I can provide you with more info, if you like. London is a great place to come and live! I hope what I've said isn't too negative.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

MissingMO said:


> "You will have to register with the tax people as self-employed, and you work out your own profit and tax due using self-assessment tax return each year. Around the first £7500 you make each year is tax-free."
> 
> Is this true no matter what tax bracket we are in as a married couple? I will pay tax based only on what I make individually if I am self employed?


In UK we have independent taxation. Couples fill their tax returns separately and you are only taxed on what you earn individually, not as a couple. So even if your spouse is in top tax bracket, if what you make in self-employment, part-time job and savings etc is up to £7475, you pay no tax.


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