# Long Term Rentals



## V-Dog (May 10, 2012)

Can anyone on the forum advise the standard practice when it comes to agents fees when renting property long term in Spain / Costa Del Sol in particular?

On viewing various CDS rental agent websites I note very few agents mention their fees policy.

In Spain / Costa Del Sol I was led to believe that the property owner paid an agent fee, usually equal to 1 month or 1/2 a months rent and that the tenant paid no such fees. However, I note only one agent who states a similar policy, with the following wording in almost all their ads: *we charge no commissions or finders fees on this property*

On occasion I have came across listings that state '1/2 months finders fee is required for this property'

But on viewing properties I have found most agents claim standard practice is for for the tenant to pay a fee equal to 1 months rent!

For future viewings and negotiations I would like to be armed with knowledge of the 'standard practice' for the area and thank anyone here who can assist me.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

V-Dog said:


> Can anyone on the forum advise the standard practice when it comes to agents fees when renting property long term in Spain / Costa Del Sol in particular?
> 
> On viewing various CDS rental agent websites I note very few agents mention their fees policy.
> 
> ...


:welcome:

I think you'll find that there is no 'standard practice' - each agent will do things differently, & as there are more properties than renters, even their 'standard policy' could be open to negotiation 

what is 'standard' though, is that *under the law* you should pay 1 month rent & 1 month (returnable) deposit upfront - anything beyond or apart from that is between you & the agent

some agents will ask for more than 1 month deposit - it's up to you if you agree to it

I'm not on the CDS - but around here, the agent who seems to do the most business charges no fee to the tenant at all


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## thrax (Nov 13, 2008)

None of the agents I know here charge a fee of any kind. Occasionally you see a request for a 2 month deposit but that is rare and can always be negotiated away.


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## jaynee (Jul 12, 2012)

*Hi*

Dont know if this helps, we are renting in Coin costa del sol, we moved in last April, we paid one months deposit, and the fees to agent were one months deposit equivalent, so we paid have and landlord paid half, which was 500€ each as rent is 1000€ a month, charming we thought, we wonder now when the long term renewal is due, (which is always 11 months by the way) if we shall have to pay this amount yet again ??? Its a finders fee and how agents make there money....


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## jaynee (Jul 12, 2012)

Forgot to mention, its seems the norm in costa del sol, to pay a finders fee, we looked at many properties with about 6 different agents and they all wanted one months rent price for finders fee, which you pay half and landlord pays half .....


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

jaynee said:


> Dont know if this helps, we are renting in Coin costa del sol, we moved in last April, we paid one months deposit, and the fees to agent were one months deposit equivalent, so we paid have and landlord paid half, which was 500€ each as rent is 1000€ a month, charming we thought, we wonder now when the long term renewal is due, (which is always 11 months by the way) if we shall have to pay this amount yet again ??? Its a finders fee and how agents make there money....


long term isn't 11 months........ that's a temporary 'contract'


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## jaynee (Jul 12, 2012)

Hi .. our contract is 11 months longterm, renewable, spanish landlord, and when we questioned that 11 month was long term .. any longer than 11 months gives tenant more rights... Agent said 11 months is the norm for long term, also I just checked, we paid, one month deposit, one months rent and half a months finders fee as landlord paid other half finders fee.. maybe some agents give longer longterm contracts, I dont know..only sharing what we we told and our fees..


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

jaynee said:


> Hi .. our contract is 11 months longterm, renewable, spanish landlord, and when we questioned that 11 month was long term .. any longer than 11 months gives tenant more rights... Agent said 11 months is the norm for long term, also I just checked, we paid, one month deposit, one months rent and half a months finders fee as landlord paid other half finders fee.. maybe some agents give longer longterm contracts, I dont know..only sharing what we we told and our fees..


yes, that's what owners & agents _always _ tell you

if it's your residence in Spain & not your holiday home , then you automatically have full tenant's rights under the LAU - regardless of what the contract says

Ley 29/1994, de 24 de noviembre, de Arrendamientos Urbanos


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## jaynee (Jul 12, 2012)

Details of Spanish Rental Contracts

V Dog, click on this link and scroll down about rental terms short and long term, long term is 11 months renewable as we were told, we have a spanish landlord and spanish stick to 11 months.... Good luck


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

jaynee said:


> Details of Spanish Rental Contracts
> 
> V Dog, click on this link and scroll down about rental terms short and long term, long term is 11 months renewable as we were told, we have a spanish landlord and spanish stick to 11 months.... Good luck


that's written by an estate agent 

have a look on your contract - I bet it says 'temporada' on it somewhere

read the link I gave you - that's the LAW - if you don't read Spanish googletranslate does a pretty good job of it

I have a Spanish landlord, Spanish gestor, a Spanish friend who is a lawyer - we have discussed this at great length

if it's your HOME, the LAU takes precedence over any contract

yes, 11 month contracts are used a lot - but it's immaterial really - you have full tenant's rights from day 1


my contract is for 5 years - _that's _ a proper long term contract


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## jaynee (Jul 12, 2012)

Hi
No our contract doesnt state temporada, your a lucky one if u have a 5 years contract straight off.... Ours is just the typical long term 11 months renewable... Landlord is great so we are comfortable with his contract, we rented one as we bought a place in another area and found it remote and we are about to let ours out as 11 month long term... And we speak good spanish and been here many years and other people we know who rent are same 11 months long term renewable, so you are a lucky one  all the best..... At least VDog will know all the possible confusions now we have shared them


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

jaynee said:


> Hi
> No our contract doesnt state temporada, your a lucky one if u have a 5 years contract straight off.... Ours is just the typical long term 11 months renewable... Landlord is great so we are comfortable with his contract, we rented one as we bought a place in another area and found it remote and we are about to let ours out as 11 month long term... And we speak good spanish and been here many years and other people we know who rent are same 11 months long term renewable, so you are a lucky one  all the best..... At least VDog will know all the possible confusions now we have shared them


you're lucky then - all (well I don't _all _ of them but I know a _lot _ ) the agents around here say the same as yours, but then when they come to sign the contract it says 'temporada'.... & so many people, especially if they haven't been here long & don't speak Spanish, just don't know any better

then if the tenant tries to move out before the end of the 11 months they try to tell them they have to pay the entire 11 months - it's just not legal 

I am very lucky with my landlord - but he wants tenants who will stay & look after the place - he doesn't want to be looking for new tenants all the time & decorating evey year between tenants - his last tenants stayed 7 years & only moved when they left the country

when I spoke to my lawyer friend about these 11 month contracts, he said a Spanish person would _never_ agree to one - in fact he doubted a Spanish landlord would even suggest it to another Spaniard


if you have a bit of time to spare have a read of how horribly wrong it can all go - this is what happened to my co-mod, jojo

http://www.expatforum.com/expats/spain-expat-forum-expats-living-spain/71337-11-month-rentals-help-please.html


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

xabiachica said:


> you're lucky then - all (well I don't _all _ of them but I know a _lot _ ) the agents around here say the same as yours, but then when they come to sign the contract it says 'temporada'.... & so many people, especially if they haven't been here long & don't speak Spanish, just don't know any better
> 
> then if the tenant tries to move out before the end of the 11 months they try to tell them they have to pay the entire 11 months - it's just not legal
> 
> ...


Yes, a big part of the reason why we are now back living in the UK  !

Jo xxx


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## thrax (Nov 13, 2008)

Our landlord is very happy with us here and says we really don't have to ask him if we want to decorate etc because, in his view and under Spanish law, this is our home. I did ask him about five year contracts as ours is 11 months (just renewed it) and does mention temporada and he said we would be happy to let us have a 5 year contract and might discuss it next year at renewal time but he thinks it has tax implications for him. I have no idea about that but we are very happy with things as they are.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

thrax said:


> Our landlord is very happy with us here and says we really don't have to ask him if we want to decorate etc because, in his view and under Spanish law, this is our home. I did ask him about five year contracts as ours is 11 months (just renewed it) and does mention temporada and he said we would be happy to let us have a 5 year contract and might discuss it next year at renewal time but he thinks it has tax implications for him. I have no idea about that but we are very happy with things as they are.


I wouldn't worry too much about what the contract says, tbh

the simple fact that it's your home means you have the same tenants rights as if you had a 5 year contract


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## thrax (Nov 13, 2008)

xabiachica said:


> I wouldn't worry too much about what the contract says, tbh
> 
> the simple fact that it's your home means you have the same tenants rights as if you had a 5 year contract


You have posted this many times so I believe you although we had our gestor tell us for certain and yes, you are 100% correct. Today. Not necessarily tomorrow and definitely not on a Tuesday. This is, after all, Spain.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

thrax said:


> You have posted this many times so I believe you although we had our gestor tell us for certain and yes, you are 100% correct. Today. Not necessarily tomorrow and definitely not on a Tuesday. This is, after all, Spain.


there are lots of agents who will disagree, though 

even on a Tuesday..........


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## thrax (Nov 13, 2008)

agents. ahhh. Agents provocateur. The come and they go. Even on a Tuesday. Where we live we are often asked to recommend an agent and in just 2 years plus a lot of internet searching in the five years before we arrived here, we have now narrowed our list of trustworthy agents to 3. There are more than 200 agents operating in our area. The agent we used to find our first home was and is a crook and quite a nasty one too. Obviously I cannot name them even in a PM but if anyone pm'd me a list of possible agents to use in our area I can safely say which ones I would use.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

thrax said:


> agents. ahhh. Agents provocateur. The come and they go. Even on a Tuesday. Where we live we are often asked to recommend an agent and in just 2 years plus a lot of internet searching in the five years before we arrived here, we have now narrowed our list of trustworthy agents to 3. There are more than 200 agents operating in our area. The agent we used to find our first home was and is a crook and quite a nasty one too. Obviously I cannot name them even in a PM but if anyone pm'd me a list of possible agents to use in our area I can safely say which ones I would use.


that's exactly what I do if anyone asks me

tell me who you're talking to & I'll tell you if I'd trust them


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## Abyss-Rover (Mar 17, 2012)

it would be nice to hear from some landlords, on this matter. Although I understand that everyone is trying to guide and help a possible tenant, who is even considering the landlord? This is the reason why many properties are left empty and many possible landlords just don't want the hassle.

Might be worth considering both sides of the coin?


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Abyss-Rover said:


> it would be nice to hear from some landlords, on this matter. Although I understand that everyone is trying to guide and help a possible tenant, who is even considering the landlord? This is the reason why many properties are left empty and many possible landlords just don't want the hassle.
> 
> Might be worth considering both sides of the coin?


snikpoh who posts here is a landlord & has agreed with me on various threads discussing this in the past

it's not a case of a point of view - it's the law


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

xabiachica said:


> snikpoh who posts here is a landlord & has agreed with me on various threads discussing this in the past
> 
> it's not a case of a point of view - it's the law


I've just read through this thread again and still can't see what question is really being asked. Here's my two-penny-worth anyway;


11 month contracts are not valid - go for a 12 month contract.
You have automatic rights to stay there for 5 years if you want
contract must be in Spanish
Agents charge what they want - typically (here) they charge one months rent to EACH party
Some agents charge 12% (of annual fee) to EACH party
Agents never 'label' this charge - it may be a finders fee, it may be something else!
Always ask for a formal receipt for any charges and watch the agents face!!!!
To my knowledge, there is no tax difference between a 12 month and a 5 year contract - tax still has to be paid by the landlord. Agents must pay tax on ALL income so again, no difference.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

snikpoh said:


> I've just read through this thread again and still can't see what question is really being asked. Here's my two-penny-worth anyway;
> 
> 
> 11 month contracts are not valid - go for a 12 month contract.
> ...


and you're a landlord - right?


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

xabiachica said:


> and you're a landlord - right?




Yep - I was last time I looked.

However, I am finding that I can't even give accommodation away at the moment. We've reduced our prices dramatically. The problem is that we are getting VERY few people interested and those that are, decide to stay at home with parents (or so they tell us).

Out of all the properties we have for rent at the moment, we have one 'long' term let (by which I mean, "I wonder how long they will actually stay") and one holiday let.




(Any one want a cheap apartment to rent?)


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

snikpoh said:


> Yep - I was last time I looked.
> 
> However, I am finding that I can't even give accommodation away at the moment. We've reduced our prices dramatically. The problem is that we are getting VERY few people interested and those that are, decide to stay at home with parents (or so they tell us).
> 
> ...


me!!

but the girls would have to change schools & I can't see all my students coming all the way to Ontinyent  & I can't drive..........

funny thing is - we actually thought about moving there about 7 years ago but decided to stay in Jávea

good news for me though, my landlord has agreed to drop the rent a bit from next month


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## Abyss-Rover (Mar 17, 2012)

xabiachica said:


> snikpoh who posts here is a landlord & has agreed with me on various threads discussing this in the past
> 
> it's not a case of a point of view - it's the law


I said nothing about "Point of view", please read again. I said, CONSIDERATION for the landlord. As in, the landlord helping people out only to get sh*t on when they won't pay or vacate!

A one sided coin is not a "Point of view" and whoever agrees that a tenant should have more legal rights, than a landlord, is obviously a tenant.

Thankfully I have not been a tenant for many, many years. So I guess that I am a little out of touch, on just how much you can get away with.

In my opinion, if someone is supplying a tenant, with a home, there should be mutual respect and mutual protection. Not one sided.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Abyss-Rover said:


> I said nothing about "Point of view", please read again. I said, CONSIDERATION for the landlord. As in, the landlord helping people out only to get sh*t on when they won't pay or vacate!
> 
> A one sided coin is not a "Point of view" and whoever agrees that a tenant should have more legal rights, than a landlord, is obviously a tenant.
> 
> ...


it isn't one sided at all - it is possible to get bad tenants out - the property is protected as is the owner - if you're interested, just read the LAU

but many agents will lie to tenants about what is a legal issue - & tenants will simply believe them, move on every 11 months or less because the owner wants a 'long term' tenant but still wants to get the high summer rental prices, lose their deposits, etc etc because the myth is perpetuated by so many agents

I have time & again seen people effectively kicked out of their home when an agent has lied to them - I'm sure agree that _that_ isn't right


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## Abyss-Rover (Mar 17, 2012)

jojo said:


> perhaps you could write that all again in a more logical fashion ??? I didnt understand a word lol!!!!
> 
> jo xxxx


I never pretended to be perfect, and,,,, I didn't write it, just copy and paste, simples.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Abyss-Rover said:


> I never pretended to be perfect, and,,,, I didn't write it, just copy and paste, simples.



then post the link!! 

Jo xxx


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## Abyss-Rover (Mar 17, 2012)

jojo said:


> then post the link!!
> 
> Jo xxx


I DID (Post #31). My sincere apologies for not posting the link at the appropriate time but I did post it before your post and before you sent me the message of a forum rule violation. I am so sorry to have made this terrible mistake.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Abyss-Rover said:


> I DID (Post #31). My sincere apologies for not posting the link at the appropriate time but I did post it before your post and before you sent me the message of a forum rule violation. I am so sorry to have made this terrible mistake.



....... and the date of that article??????? Before I delete it????

Jo xxx


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## Abyss-Rover (Mar 17, 2012)

jojo said:


> ....... and the date of that article??????? Before I delete it????
> 
> Jo xxx


I'm not sure of the date, is that another rule violation? You have the link, if you are truly interested.

PS, is it a forum rule, to show correct details about "Originally from" and "Expat in"?


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Abyss-Rover said:


> I'm not sure of the date, is that another rule violation? You have the link, if you are truly interested.



ITS DATED 2007!!!!!!!! Thats *FIVE YEARS AGO *- a life time ago in spain! So its not fair to accuse xabiachica of offering false info on the strength that you've found some outdated nonsense!!!!

Jo xxxx


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## Abyss-Rover (Mar 17, 2012)

jojo said:


> ITS DATED 2007!!!!!!!! Thats *FIVE YEARS AGO *- a life time ago in spain! So its not fair to accuse xabiachica of offering false info on the strength that you've found some outdated nonsense!!!!
> 
> Jo xxxx


Maybe you could direct me, and other forum users, to an up to date description of the rental laws?


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Abyss-Rover said:


> Maybe you could direct me, and other forum users, to an up to date description of the rental laws?


It changes so frequently I doubt there is an up to date version. However, Snikpoh posted this and she would know more than most



> 11 month contracts are not valid - go for a 12 month contract.
> You have automatic rights to stay there for 5 years if you want
> contract must be in Spanish
> Agents charge what they want - typically (here) they charge one months rent to EACH party
> ...


Jo xxx


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Abyss-Rover said:


> Maybe you could direct me, and other forum users, to an up to date description of the rental laws?


yes, there is a link to the actual law in our 'forms, education etc etc ........' sticky thread


googletranslate does a pretty good job of it for anyone who doesn't read Spanish


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

jojo said:


> It changes so frequently I doubt there is an up to date version. However, Snikpoh posted this and she would know more than most
> 
> 
> 
> Jo xxx


snikpoh's a HE 


I'm not guessing this time - I know I'm usually bad at that but I KNOW he is


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

xabiachica said:


> snikpoh's a HE
> 
> 
> I'm not guessing this time - I know I'm usually bad at that but I KNOW he is


.... sorry! Sorry snikpoh  

Jo xxx


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## Abyss-Rover (Mar 17, 2012)

jojo said:


> It changes so frequently I doubt there is an up to date version. However, Snikpoh posted this and she would know more than most
> 
> 
> 
> Jo xxx


I found something from May 2012, not sure if that is up to date enough.

New rental laws make renting safer for property owners in Spain

The problem is, as anyone who has experienced "trying to do it right" in Spain, the rules change from month to month and from area to area. Initially, before the barrage of abuse, I was simply making a statement, that it's not only the tenant who needs to be aware. Many people run down the landlords, without knowing what they have to put up with. In fact, for the Spanish to change the law, to ease this problem. It only proves that the problem was there in the first place. The result of this problem is, fewer properties for rent and higher rental. Now I think that's something that most people would be interested in!


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## V-Dog (May 10, 2012)

Thanks to those who posted. 

I was actually over in Spain on a viewing trip while the thread ran its course. I was mostly without net access whilst there preventing me from taking part in the discussion.

The viewing trip went quite well. I viewed 2 properties I intend to offer on this week. With the possibility of submitting a 3rd offer on another property I believed I had missed out on after an earlier trip.

As for the agents fees - I did note the agents seem to go out their way not to mention such fees! I presume the tactic here is to have you fall for the property first then when you are on the hook introduce the talk of fees!


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## AlyxTz (May 11, 2012)

xabiachica said:


> :welcome:
> 
> I think you'll find that there is no 'standard practice' - each agent will do things differently, & as there are more properties than renters, even their 'standard policy' could be open to negotiation
> 
> ...


 I agree! In my experiences so far (I have been here two months) there's no set practice for agents, but one month's rent as a fee seems to be what most of them go for.

I would be suspicious of anyone who asks for more as it's a rather unreasonable amount for an agent to demand for just showing you around a place! I would also suggest getting some kind of receipt for your deposit, even if it's just a basic one, with the landlord's signature. A lot of people I know (especially when renting just a room) have been told that they 'don't need a receipt', or that s/he will do one for them later and when the time comes for you to move out, they deny all knowledge! 

Good luck with your search, it's a buyers/renters market so don't let them get away with charging you the earth!


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

AlyxTz said:


> I agree! In my experiences so far (I have been here two months) there's no set practice for agents, but one month's rent as a fee seems to be what most of them go for.
> 
> I would be suspicious of anyone who asks for more as it's a rather unreasonable amount for an agent to demand for just showing you around a place! I would also suggest getting some kind of receipt for your deposit, even if it's just a basic one, with the landlord's signature. A lot of people I know (especially when renting just a room) have been told that they 'don't need a receipt', or that s/he will do one for them later and when the time comes for you to move out, they deny all knowledge!
> 
> Good luck with your search, it's a buyers/renters market so don't let them get away with charging you the earth!


:welcome:

yes the deposit is supposed to be held in a seperate account & not used for anything - it is supposed to be available for when you move out

hardly anyoe ever seems to get their deposit back though


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## LesleyL (Apr 18, 2012)

Thrax
Would like your recommended list for your area if you could PM me. Couldn't work out how to PM to you.
Thanks


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

LesleyL said:


> Thrax
> Would like your recommended list for your area if you could PM me. Couldn't work out how to PM to you.
> Thanks


 You need to have made a minimum of 5 posts to activate the PM facility - its so we can make sure that you're not a spammer lol!!!!

As thrax is a regular, we wouldnt mind him recommending on the open forum anyway tho

jo xxx


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## LesleyL (Apr 18, 2012)

Thanks for that JoJo
Look forward to seeing Thrax's post on this. Will be surpassing my 5 posts on here very soon - as we near our move to Spain (about 20 months - and counting!) and we are intending to be in the area where Thrax is located. So very interested about recommendations of agents etc.


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