# Habitation



## _Tony_ (Dec 18, 2015)

Hi everyone,

I've had a look through the forum already but am trying to get a solid grip on my options. Forgive me if the topic has been covered in one way or another.

I'm about to do a camper tour of northern and central Portugal, having seen a lot of properties for sale online.

I've read around the subject but am still trying to get a handle on the legal aspects. 

Am I right in thinking it is illegal to live on land that does not have a habitation licence - agricultural land/buildings for example? Of course vendors are not going to tell me this and I'm wondering if the reason there is so much property for sale esp. in the central region is that people thought they could just 'live on the land' but then they got shut down by the authorities.

My story is familiar to most of you I expect. I have a camper, I want to live from the land as much as possible, and I want as few authorities and bureaucrats hassling me as possible. Do I need to hide in the mountains or can I park my camper on my land indefinitely? What about living in yurts etc. licences / building permissions needed?

I know its a long message. Any help appreciated. 

Tony


----------



## Strontium (Sep 16, 2015)

_Tony_ said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> I've had a look through the forum already but am trying to get a solid grip on my options. Forgive me if the topic has been covered in one way or another.
> 
> ...



Welcome.

How drastically the rules are enforced varies from area to area. Land classed "rustic" you cannot live or build habitation on. Buildings classed as habitation will have be listed as such on the land registry with dimensions and description, these are not all up to date. Your legal rep will (should?) have interweb access to the land registry so can just download the info about any article that is a plot of land or building. There are a lot of cheap places for sale basically as there is little employment plus generally the land is not suitable for mechanised agriculture and in some areas lack of water. You would almost certainty find a house needing renovation with some land for not much then you would not have the problem of the local authority, parking next to the house on your own land in a camper would certainly be tolerated if it appeared you were renovating the house.


----------



## _Tony_ (Dec 18, 2015)

Thanks Strontium...

Any ideas of the most tolerant areas for off-grid living/campers etc.? 

I'm more drawn to ruins etc. and am not concerned about being connected to the grid, which I assume is what separates a 'habitable' structure from non habitable?

Further to this point, I have received this from a vendor of some land with ruins: 

"The restoration works needs no type approval or license as legally, it can’t be considered a living house, since it is a concept that needs no connection to public water, sewage, electricity or others."

So I could renovate without licence but then have to live in it illegally?

Sorry if I'm being a dunce

Thanks


----------



## travelling-man (Jun 17, 2011)

Just because a building has "no connection to public water, sewage, electricity or others." doesn't necessarily mean t can be lived in.


----------



## _Tony_ (Dec 18, 2015)

travelling-man said:


> Just because a building has "no connection to public water, sewage, electricity or others." doesn't necessarily mean t can be lived in.


But does it mean it can't be lived in legally?


----------



## travelling-man (Jun 17, 2011)

_Tony_ said:


> But does it mean it can't be lived in legally?


If the house/land has the right classification, it can be lived in even if it isn't connected to those services but not being connected to the services don't mean it can be lived in if it doesn't have the right classification......


----------



## _Tony_ (Dec 18, 2015)

So I have any desire to live legally I either need to find a property with a habitation classification or one which can be re-classified (in a nut shell)?

Ease of / requirements for reclassification? 

Thank you


----------



## travelling-man (Jun 17, 2011)

You'd be well advised to forget reclassification.

Firstly because there are plenty of places with the right classification already & secondly because Portuguese bureaucracy is an absolute nightmare.


----------



## _Tony_ (Dec 18, 2015)

So basically I can forget living on anything that is not classed as habitable, be it in a ruin, a camper, a yurt or anything else?


----------



## travelling-man (Jun 17, 2011)

_Tony_ said:


> So basically I can forget living on anything that is not classed as habitable, be it in a ruin, a camper, a yurt or anything else?


Not habitable but habitation but that's more or less right if you want to stay the right side of the law......... a few try to break the rules by living in forested areas but most get rumbled eventually and of course there's also the safety issue to consider. 

If someone lives in a forest and no-one knows they're there, the Bombeiros can't come and save their bacon in event of a big forest fire etc.


----------



## wink (Aug 23, 2011)

Ask the local Câmara, they are the only people who can give you a definitive answer.


----------



## Strontium (Sep 16, 2015)

Hi,

You don't need to create extra problems. Loads of old habitation with/without land is available which will allow you to live a rustic life without giving yourself hassle in a foreign language and foreign culture. Mains water is a pittance and basically charged per M3 and you do not have to use it but if your borehole/well/water store is compromised then you'd find it more then useful, same with electricity, a mains powered fridge is a brilliant invention especially if you fancy a cold beer or wish to keep some meat edible in the burning summer months. Solar PV panel for lights, solar hot water, solar powered borehole pump all fine but it helps to have something to power a cement mixer, electric chainsaw, electric drill etc.


----------



## Strontium (Sep 16, 2015)

Strontium said:


> Hi,
> 
> You don't need to create extra problems. Loads of old habitation with/without land is available which will allow you to live a rustic life without giving yourself hassle in a foreign language and foreign culture. Mains water is a pittance and basically charged per M3 and you do not have to use it but if your borehole/well/water store is compromised then you'd find it more then useful, same with electricity, a mains powered fridge is a brilliant invention especially if you fancy a cold beer or wish to keep some meat edible in the burning summer months. Solar PV panel for lights, solar hot water, solar powered borehole pump all fine but it helps to have something to power a cement mixer, electric chainsaw, electric drill etc.


Ahhh I see the point you don't understand. If a pile of stones is listed on the land registry as "habitation" you may live in it. If a pile of stones is listed as "rustic" you may not live in it. Generally if the pile of stones is listed as habitation built before 1952 (?) someone may renovate it without too much reference to the latest building regulations but to the same foot print/number of windows as listed on the land registry, this may vary from area to area so a chat with the "Camera" will snow how lenient they will be. You will find there are so many habitation pile of stones for sale in the central area you will not see them all in a couple of months. Your next problem will be the lack of speed of the Portuguese estate agents, the lack of information they supply. their lack of eagerness to take any notice of your search requests. Ask here for some recommended agents may reduce the pain of Portuguese Property searching.


----------



## RichyBassett (Jan 13, 2016)

Hi Tony

Don't get stuck on one área!
Look around, talk to local expats and try the fringes of holiday áreas.
As you drive around, look out for prefabs and wooden shacks.
Many of these shacks, mobile homes and glorified sheds have been there a long time.
Along the river bordering Spain you will find lots of plots with caravans and other buildings on.

I think you will be pleasantly surprised.
Richy


----------

