# Fbar filing



## berniej

My daughters never sent one in and they are over the limit.We never knew this 

had to be done.So I have to do Fbars for2006-2011.Is there anything special I 

would have to do.I hear about a letter and a program or so for people who 

haven't done this.Or should I do it the same as I did the taxes,just send in the 

fbars with a letter giving the reason why they haven't done it.

They have 4 accounts but 3 are all the same account number.Should I 

combine the total of the 3 or list all of them separately(checking/savings)

I don't want them to get fined or penilized etc.

How long after I send in their taxes should I send in the fbars.

I keep reading about an amnesty program would that be for them or is that for 

the bad people.

Is it better for me to let a pro do this as I don't want to make any mistakes and I 

hear that these people are mean.

Thanks for the help in advance

Bernie


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## Omater

Here is a link that I used to help me write a letter of "reasonable cause" for late filing: Official IRS Guidance For Taxpayers Who Have Not Filed U.S. Tax Forms

I would go ahead and file the FBAR reports. I understand that it will take them a few years to get through the back log and these reports have nothing to do with your taxes, they are for information purposes only and are sent to Detroit rather than Austin. Be sure to send your letter with the reports with reasonable cause to hopefully avoid any penalties.


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## Bevdeforges

File the FBARs as soon as you can. Like the Nike ad says, just do it.

The amnesty program is for the bad guys - those who have accounts they've been hiding for years on which they should have been paying taxes to the US (or any other country).

If 3 or 4 of what you consider distinct accounts are combined by the bank under one account number, just give the one account number and combine the totals. (I did this just recently for a friend of mine - her bank gives a single account number for an account that combines checking and a sort of investment account. If that's how the bank does it, then that's how you report it.)

Do your level best to fill out the forms honestly without hiding anything. If you've made "mistakes," the first move on the part of the Treasury Dept. will be to send you a letter asking for more information or for clarification of whatever they find to be a problem or question. (I have gotten one such letter, and it was easy to resolve.)

The FBAR forms are actually quite a bit easier to do than the tax forms (including the FATCA forms). What they are looking for is simply a declaration of your overseas accounts and what the high balance was for the year. If in doubt, bump up the balance you report by a few thousand $, just to be safe. (They will hardly penalize you for over-reporting the balances, as long as you don't go hog wild on them.)
Cheers,
Bev


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## berniej

Is there a limit for how much you can have in your accounts.We've been saving for around 20 years to buy an apartment so we have a bit in the bank,does that matter.
The only problem is worrying about the the fines etc vs life savings,my girls have the same problem,they saved to buy a house but the crisis stopped that but they kept saving.
The accounts are in dutch banks taxes have been paid on whats in etc no attempt to hide we just never knew about it.
thanks for the help

Bernie





Bevdeforges said:


> File the FBARs as soon as you can. Like the Nike ad says, just do it.
> 
> The amnesty program is for the bad guys - those who have accounts they've been hiding for years on which they should have been paying taxes to the US (or any other country).
> 
> If 3 or 4 of what you consider distinct accounts are combined by the bank under one account number, just give the one account number and combine the totals. (I did this just recently for a friend of mine - her bank gives a single account number for an account that combines checking and a sort of investment account. If that's how the bank does it, then that's how you report it.)
> 
> Do your level best to fill out the forms honestly without hiding anything. If you've made "mistakes," the first move on the part of the Treasury Dept. will be to send you a letter asking for more information or for clarification of whatever they find to be a problem or question. (I have gotten one such letter, and it was easy to resolve.)
> 
> The FBAR forms are actually quite a bit easier to do than the tax forms (including the FATCA forms). What they are looking for is simply a declaration of your overseas accounts and what the high balance was for the year. If in doubt, bump up the balance you report by a few thousand $, just to be safe. (They will hardly penalize you for over-reporting the balances, as long as you don't go hog wild on them.)
> Cheers,
> Bev


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## Bevdeforges

berniej said:


> Is there a limit for how much you can have in your accounts.We've been saving for around 20 years to buy an apartment so we have a bit in the bank,does that matter.
> The only problem is worrying about the the fines etc vs life savings,my girls have the same problem,they saved to buy a house but the crisis stopped that but they kept saving.
> The accounts are in dutch banks taxes have been paid on whats in etc no attempt to hide we just never knew about it.
> thanks for the help
> 
> Bernie


There are no limits, and simply having a big balance isn't a problem. In theory what they're looking for is to see if you've reported interest or other income from these accounts on your US returns. (Of course with interest rates as low as they currently are, you have to have some pretty big accounts to have real reporting problems.)

Honestly, there are still loads of US citizens out there who have no idea they are supposed to be filing or what any of this FBAR and FATCA stuff is all about. What they are actually looking for are US residents (for the most part) who have stashed their money (or ill gotten gains) in foreign accounts or sneaky investments they believed were "secret" in order to avoid taxes.

All of us common folk got caught up in the way the legislation was written - and so like in the police stories, we have to disclose all this information primarily to eliminate ourselves from suspicion.
Cheers,
Bev


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## berniej

well I better get busy.Thanks for the info 

Bernie






Bevdeforges said:


> There are no limits, and simply having a big balance isn't a problem. In theory what they're looking for is to see if you've reported interest or other income from these accounts on your US returns. (Of course with interest rates as low as they currently are, you have to have some pretty big accounts to have real reporting problems.)
> 
> Honestly, there are still loads of US citizens out there who have no idea they are supposed to be filing or what any of this FBAR and FATCA stuff is all about. What they are actually looking for are US residents (for the most part) who have stashed their money (or ill gotten gains) in foreign accounts or sneaky investments they believed were "secret" in order to avoid taxes.
> 
> All of us common folk got caught up in the way the legislation was written - and so like in the police stories, we have to disclose all this information primarily to eliminate ourselves from suspicion.
> Cheers,
> Bev


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## Peg

I filed my FBARs the same time that I filed my taxed. Four months later I heard back from the IRS about my tax returns but nothing about FBARs.

My philosophy with the FBARs is that I have been saving in Canada and the Canadian government knows about it and I have paid all taxes due to them. What little income I had on the accounts I also reported on my US tax returns. I recorded all of my accounts and if for some reason the US Gov tries to penalize me I either will fight it or will not return to the US. I do not expect or want that to happen but I take comfort that the Canadian government will not collect FBAR penalties for the US Government.

For any accounts joint with a Canadian I wrote "NRA" for non-resident alien. I also included any accounts that I had signing authority but no financial interest. e.g., hobby club etc. Others had to report their employer since they were a signing authority.


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## berniej

Thanks Peg I guess thats what I will do.
This stuff has me so confused!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks

Bernie



Peg said:


> I filed my FBARs the same time that I filed my taxed. Four months later I heard back from the IRS about my tax returns but nothing about FBARs.
> 
> My philosophy with the FBARs is that I have been saving in Canada and the Canadian government knows about it and I have paid all taxes due to them. What little income I had on the accounts I also reported on my US tax returns. I recorded all of my accounts and if for some reason the US Gov tries to penalize me I either will fight it or will not return to the US. I do not expect or want that to happen but I take comfort that the Canadian government will not collect FBAR penalties for the US Government.
> 
> For any accounts joint with a Canadian I wrote "NRA" for non-resident alien. I also included any accounts that I had signing authority but no financial interest. e.g., hobby club etc. Others had to report their employer since they were a signing authority.


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## Omater

Peg said:


> My philosophy with the FBARs is that I have been saving in Canada and the Canadian government knows about it and I have paid all taxes due to them. What little income I had on the accounts I also reported on my US tax returns. I recorded all of my accounts and if for some reason the US Gov tries to penalize me I either will fight it or will not return to the US.


That is exactly what I decided. No matter what, the reports have to be filed and hopefully they will not reverse their statement that they will forgive any penalties on late reports with reasonable cause. Getting caught up in the fear of what hasn't happened will just eat us up with worry.


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## fish1

When filing taxes for previous years, do you also need to send a letter along with this (or need to?) , or is this more just to do with the FBAR forms?

and If one has a joint acct on the FBAR from a while back, but not married, and the individual is not a U.S. citizen (orRes etc) do they need to sign? At the moment I wouldn't even know where to reach them if they did!


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## Bevdeforges

fish1 said:


> When filing taxes for previous years, do you also need to send a letter along with this (or need to?) , or is this more just to do with the FBAR forms?
> 
> and If one has a joint acct on the FBAR from a while back, but not married, and the individual is not a U.S. citizen (orRes etc) do they need to sign? At the moment I wouldn't even know where to reach them if they did!


It's not a bad idea to send a letter explaining the reason for your late filing, but if you owe no taxes on any of the years you're back filing, it probably isn't really necessary.

If you hold a joint account with someone not your spouse, there is no requirement that the joint owner of the account sign (or even know about) your FBAR filing. Having both spouses sign the FBAR is only to avoid filing duplicate reports if both are subject to the filing laws.
Cheers,
Bev


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## fish1

Bevdeforges said:


> It's not a bad idea to send a letter explaining the reason for your late filing, but if you owe no taxes on any of the years you're back filing, it probably isn't really necessary.
> 
> If you hold a joint account with someone not your spouse, there is no requirement that the joint owner of the account sign (or even know about) your FBAR filing. Having both spouses sign the FBAR is only to avoid filing duplicate reports if both are subject to the filing laws.
> Cheers,
> Bev


Thanks Bev, very helpful. Amounts due for taxes are very small..~$100, so debating whether to write the letter. Also, Ive read about using the correct FBAR form for past years. Is it the latest form available the one that should be used then, even going back to FBARs pre 08'?

P.S. this website has been so helpful as I'm uncovering what should have been done.


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## Bevdeforges

The FBAR forms aren't dated. You fill in the year at the top of the form yourself. 

According to a couple of posters recently, the Treasury Dept. wants you to use the current form, even when filing prior years. Just indicate the year you're filing for on the form.
Cheers,
Bev


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