# Proof of why I want an NIE - what do I need?



## suiko (Dec 7, 2015)

hi all

I posted on here a few months ago about looking for a village to buy a house in in Andalucía.

Anyway, I have now found a place, and need to make a lightning trip to Spain to get an NIE certificate. This should be straightforward, as I already have an NIE number (and card) from 1992, when I was working in Spain. I anticipate this can be done in a couple of hours in Ronda (obviously the certificate will need to wait there a couple of months until I or the notario picks it up). 

My only question is that I seem to need a "pre-purchase agreement" or something like that as proof of why I need an NIE. Because of all the instability with the referendum, I was thinking of contracting a notary only shortly before purchase, so at this point (pre-referendum) I would probably only have a short letter which I and the owner of the house I want to buy (who is English) could concoct (I could do this in Spanish as I speak good Spanish).

My question is would this be enough? Or can anyone think of anything else that would do? Need to make sure I have the right documentation as I only have one morning for this.

Thanks


----------



## stevesainty (Jan 7, 2011)

If you already have an NIE number and your original one did not have an expiry date on it why would you need a new one?
If you need a replacement you could always visit the Spanish consulate in Edinburgh, less busy, or in London and it would be posted to your UK address.


----------



## suiko (Dec 7, 2015)

Because I need a certificate for a house purchase, and a certificate is only valid for three months. As far as I know this can only be done in person in Spain. It's probably more expensive to do it in the UK too?


----------



## suiko (Dec 7, 2015)

Has anyone done this recently? There seems to be different info on whether they actually ask for documentation as to WHY you want an NIE.


----------



## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

suiko said:


> Because I need a certificate for a house purchase, and a certificate is only valid for three months. As far as I know this can only be done in person in Spain. It's probably more expensive to do it in the UK too?


Sorry, this is incorrect.

If you already have an NIE then you can't apply for a new one.

You can either ask for a duplicate at a consulate in UK or ask for a duplicate here in Spain. They shouldn't have the 3-month expiry on them, but might.


By-the-way, I didn't need to show a certificate when I bought any of my properties. I just gave them my NIE and that was all.


Also, you don't need to "prove" why you need one, just state that it's for buying a house - when you find one! No one can have proof for that until they've found the house and you shouldn't have to wait 'till then to get your NIE.


Maybe you need to be a little more pragmatic (just saying ). I know you're just trying to get things right before 'going for it', but sometimes you need to listen to how things actually happen rather than how it's documented to happen.


----------



## suiko (Dec 7, 2015)

OK, thanks. 

But this site Spanish NIE numbers: Why you need one, and how to get one in or outside of Spain - Spanish Property Insight says you MAY need proof.

I think some notaries MAY not ask for the NIE certificate, but others do. And I don't want to be in the position where I've flown out to Spain to finalise it and then find I can't! And I do think you need a certificate in such cases (which last three months), not just a number.


----------



## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

suiko said:


> OK, thanks.
> 
> But this site Spanish NIE numbers: Why you need one, and how to get one in or outside of Spain - Spanish Property Insight says you MAY need proof.
> 
> I think some notaries MAY not ask for the NIE certificate, but others do. And I don't want to be in the position where I've flown out to Spain to finalise it and then find I can't! And I do think you need a certificate in such cases (which last three months), not just a number.


I agree about being prepared but I didn't need proof and I didn't need a certificate. 

Nor have any of the people that I've helped (as an interpreter).

Things may be different now and may vary by region so I agree, if you can do everything to be prepared, then it's best to do so.


----------



## stevesainty (Jan 7, 2011)

suiko said:


> OK, thanks.
> 
> But this site Spanish NIE numbers: Why you need one, and how to get one in or outside of Spain - Spanish Property Insight says you MAY need proof.
> 
> I think some notaries MAY not ask for the NIE certificate, but others do. And I don't want to be in the position where I've flown out to Spain to finalise it and then find I can't! And I do think you need a certificate in such cases (which last three months), not just a number.


Have you actually checked your original NIE?

If there is no expiration date on it then it is still valid. My NIE certificate,A4 white has no date on it whatsoever.

Consulates in UK only charge a few pounds to cover the paperwork if you need a replacement one. I think it may be easier to go to Edinburgh of London than to arrange flights to Spain.


----------



## suiko (Dec 7, 2015)

There's no expiry date. 

EVERYONE else has told me I need a certificate though, or at least that many notaries demand it. And that the certificate should really be less than three months old (again, it seems like this is not always applied).

Would be great to have some more input!


----------



## stevesainty (Jan 7, 2011)

suiko said:


> There's no expiry date.
> 
> EVERYONE else has told me I need a certificate though, or at least that many notaries demand it. And that the certificate should really be less than three months old (again, it seems like this is not always applied).
> 
> Would be great to have some more input!


Your NIE certificate is not one of the temporary ones then, and you do not need to get it updated. 

The temporary ones, that do need to be updated, clearly have an expiration date on them.


----------



## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

stevesainty said:


> Your NIE certificate is not one of the temporary ones then, and you do not need to get it updated.
> 
> The temporary ones, that do need to be updated, clearly have an expiration date on them.


I agree. My NIE certificate is more than 13 years old (it has no expiry date) and I have never been asked to provide a more up to date one. I believe the ones which do carry an expiry date (of the certificate, that is, not the number itself) were introduced a few years ago (2012?) and if your certificate predates that then it will be fine.


----------



## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Definitely, once you are given an NIE then that is your number for life and it doesn't run out.
Could the OP have been asked to provide a copy of the NIE document and that that may be a certificate that runs out?


Here is some information about buying property in Spain from our sticky FAQ's, but it doesn't mention NIE's
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/how-to-buy-property-in-spain


----------



## suiko (Dec 7, 2015)

OK, thanks! Not sure what to believe, as an agent who has been in the area all his life said I definitely needed to get a certificate which last thre months. Think I'll try to call the Extranjería place in Málaga to see if I can find anything out (tho not hopeful, with my experience of Spanish bureaucracy!)


----------



## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

suiko said:


> OK, thanks! Not sure what to believe, as an agent who has been in the area all his life said I definitely needed to get a certificate which last thre months. Think I'll try to call the Extranjería place in Málaga to see if I can find anything out (tho not hopeful, with my experience of Spanish bureaucracy!)


I think your agent is wrong. Maybe people are having their judgement clouded by the recent changes in the law (not so recent - 2012) where NEW NIE certificates now only last for 3 months.

How can something without an expiry date, expire?


----------



## suiko (Dec 7, 2015)

Maybe. Could well be. Annoying as I just bought a ticket for a three-day trip! Still, I suppose at least I can open the bank account...


----------



## cllve (Apr 19, 2016)

With the introduction of the new NIE certificate in 2012, all certificates prior to the new one became invalid. The fact that the old ones show no expiry date means nothing as the system was changed to the certificates that are valid for three months only.

Your NIE number remains the same, and you do not have to renew your certificate until you require one as in for example a car or property purchase.

Check with your estate agent how long it takes to renew your NIE certificate as where I live it takes several weeks just to get an appointment to start the process followed by several more before the certificate arrives. Having said that, when I recently bought a car the garage just asked me to give them a copy of a new certificate when it arrived as they knew the situation was dire. House purchase may be different though.

Good luck.


----------



## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

cllve said:


> With the introduction of the new NIE certificate in 2012, all certificates prior to the new one became invalid. The fact that the old ones show no expiry date means nothing as the system was changed to the certificates that are valid for three months only.
> 
> 
> Good luck.


This is simply not correct.


Can you please provide a link to where this information was found.


----------



## cllve (Apr 19, 2016)

My source of information was my solicitor and the garage that I purchased the car from. I would tend to think that they would know what they were talking about. Maybe others have not had to renew when buying a car, but this is Spain.

Can you point me to where you got your information from as I am happy to be corrected.


----------



## cllve (Apr 19, 2016)

Maybe my answer should have been "all certificates issued to non residents prior to the new ones became invalid" and as the OP appears to be non resident he will require a new certificate with a 3 month validity.


----------



## suiko (Dec 7, 2015)

That appears to fit in with what my estate agent said. 

The original NIE issued I was most definitely resident, though of course now I am non-resident. Though I imagine that doesn't make much difference 

There are no appointments where I am hoping to buy, though. Just turn up and hope you get it done quickly. I believe it takes up to a week, and then they keep the certificate until someone picks it up. Clearly that won't be me, as I will not be around,but will hopefully be the notary within three months.


----------



## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

cllve said:


> My source of information was my solicitor and the garage that I purchased the car from. I would tend to think that they would know what they were talking about. Maybe others have not had to renew when buying a car, but this is Spain.
> 
> Can you point me to where you got your information from as I am happy to be corrected.


So what you're really saying (or your lawyer and the car dealer) is that even though the NIE certificate has no expiry date, it does expire. 

... and that must be for everyone as there is no way that a certificate can know if the recipient is a resident or not. That is, it's the same piece of paper regardless of being a resident or a non-resident.

My lawyer recently confirmed that the NIE certificate issued without an expiry date - never expires! Which kind of makes more sense don't you think?


I recently bought a car from someone returning to UK who was not resident in Spain. The lawyer was happy to use there (non expiring) NIE certificate as were trafico and hacienda (because they then bought are old RHD but Spanish plated vehicle).


----------



## suiko (Dec 7, 2015)

So what do you think I should do? Possibly nothing, if I hadn't already bought the ticket to Jerez. But as I have...?


----------



## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

suiko said:


> So what do you think I should do? Possibly nothing, if I hadn't already bought the ticket to Jerez. But as I have...?


Whether it's correct that you need a new certificate or not - & I'm not getting into that, since things do change & usually they change in some areas before others.... (for instance I've heard that in some areas they now issue non-expiring NIEs again, but since I personally haven't experienced it, I can't vouch for its veracity) 

IF you need a new one, then you are only asking for a new copy of your old one, so you don't have to prove anything - you simply ask for a 'new' copy


----------



## suiko (Dec 7, 2015)

Except maybe that before I was a residente, and now I'm not?


----------



## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

suiko said:


> Except maybe that before I was a residente, and now I'm not?


It makes no difference at all - the NIE is for life - it never changes.


----------



## suiko (Dec 7, 2015)

Thanks! Well, that's clarified, at least. 

I was thinking I should get this sorted before the referendum, as who knows what will happen after that. And so I bought a ticket just to do this. Now it seems I may not actually need to... we'll see!


----------

