# Earning a crust...



## kingsway1 (May 1, 2015)

We're hoping to move to Andalucia - probably Almeria, where property looks a bit more affordable, sometime in the next year.

I'm 65 so am basically retiring, but my wife is only 54 so will need to earn for a few moew years.

She is thinking of doing a TEFL course (teaching English as a Foreign Language). I wonder if anyone knows if she is liklly to be able to make a living doing that?

I suspect I would also like to continue working at least a couple of days a week, just to make the pension go a bit further. But I am presently a Driving Instructor.

Can anyone please tell me if they know any UK expats working as Driving Instructors? 

I'm guessing I'd need to cater more to the local, Spanish speaking market, so I'd have to have pretty good language skills... 

Any comments would be welcome, many tks!


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

kingsway1 said:


> We're hoping to move to Andalucia - probably Almeria, where property looks a bit more affordable, sometime in the next year.
> 
> I'm 65 so am basically retiring, but my wife is only 54 so will need to earn for a few moew years.
> 
> ...


:welcome:

if you *need *an income to come here, it probably isn't the right time 

if you can manage without & anything you earn would be for 'extras' that's a different matter

not many 'earn a living' as language teachers - academy pay is often poor & the hours erratic & not many - for most it's a second income for the family

I _do _earn a living teaching Spanish - but I am self-employed, I work a heck of a lot of hours & I've built up a reputation locally over some years - & I have no choice because I have two teenagers to support

as for working as a driving instructor - yes it's possible - but you have to be licensed by the govt & work with a recognised driving school - & yes you need fluent Spanish 

as a learner driver here, you can't even get behind the wheel of a car without a registered driving instructor


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

kingsway1 said:


> She is thinking of doing a TEFL course (teaching English as a Foreign Language). I wonder if anyone knows if she is liklly to be able to make a living doing that?


A friend did a six week TEFL course and managed to get work in an English academy. During the first six months she just about earned enough to pay for the course fees - the hourly rate is very low and doesn't cover preparation time. 

The main advantage to her was that the academy paid her social security so she could get free health care, but if you are a pensioner your wife will get that as your dependent.

If she works independently she will have to pay her own contributions, which start from around €250 a month. So she will have to build up a sizeable clientele to make it profitable. It depends on how much supply and demand there is where you are living. It will obviously be harder if there are a lot of other English native speakers doing the same thing.


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## gus-lopez (Jan 4, 2010)

kingsway1 said:


> We're hoping to move to Andalucia - probably Almeria, where property looks a bit more affordable, sometime in the next year.
> 
> 
> 
> !


This is because many have left to work abroad . A large % of the remaining are unemployed.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

kingsway1 said:


> We're hoping to move to Andalucia - probably Almeria, where property looks a bit more affordable, sometime in the next year.
> 
> I'm 65 so am basically retiring, but my wife is only 54 so will need to earn for a few moew years.
> 
> ...


 I would say that it's best to forget about working as a driving instructor. The level of Spanish you would need would take several years to acquire. I worked as a translator/interpreter and teacher of foreign languages and know how long it takes to feel and be at home in another language.
Work of any kind is scarce in Andalucia. As Gus says, unemployment is high, in my area at 34%. If you need to earn to live here, perhaps this isn't the time to move.

You have to be able to cope with the things life throws at you too. In the last month I've had to fork out over a thousand euros for repairs and new tyres for our cars as well as pay for a new satellite receiver box as our old one packed up after nine years. Next week I have to pay a hundred euros to tax one of the cars and the other needs an ITV (MOT). 
I need to make an appointment to see my optician for new specs and the dentist. 

These things and more can happen and require either adequate savings or a surplus on income or both. 
So it's not really advisable to retire in Spain unless you are sure you can cope with all these things life throws at us.


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## kingsway1 (May 1, 2015)

Thanks for all your replies. Yes, we certainly need to think long and hard...

If I stay in the UK I'll have to work until I'm 74 just to pay off the mortgage, and I hate the winter!

I lived in Africa half of my life and would really like to retire to the Cape Town area - where property is also cheap, and we would feel right at home. But the future there is not exactly secure and the level of violent crime is not getting any better. 

Southern Spain is similar as far as climate and landscape is concerned - a whole lot safer - and we could at least manage to live mortgage free. We could also afford health insurance (I have a healthy fear of the NHS after seeing what happened to my parents in their last couple of years of their lives here in the UK)

But, under the new rules, my wife will only be able to get a pension at age 67, so needs to work for another 14 years. Mind you - her state pension will only be worth £69 a week even then!

Anyway, we'll be down their in a couple of weeks for a bit of sunshine, and to do a bit of a recce.

"Getting old is not for sissies" as they say...


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

kingsway1 said:


> Thanks for all your replies. Yes, we certainly need to think long and hard...
> 
> If I stay in the UK I'll have to work until I'm 74 just to pay off the mortgage, and I hate the winter!


....don't start me on Spanish winters lol, they were the biggest shock to me. Cold, wet, windy, floods.... Damp and cold houses that were expensive to heat..... 

Jo xxx

Sent from my D5803 using Expat Forum


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## tonymar (Jan 29, 2015)

jojo said:


> ....don't start me on Spanish winters lol, they were the biggest shock to me. Cold, wet, windy, floods.... Damp and cold houses that were expensive to heat.....
> 
> Jo xxx
> 
> Sent from my D5803 using Expat Forum


But remember Jo on the positive side , it is still generally bright and sunny here in the winter too !

Cheers Tony


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

jojo said:


> ....don't start me on Spanish winters lol, they were the biggest shock to me. Cold, wet, windy, floods.... Damp and cold houses that were expensive to heat.....
> 
> Jo xxx
> 
> Sent from my D5803 using Expat Forum


I quite like the winters where I am. Cold and crisp with a frost many mornings and usually a couple of snowfalls, but as Tony says you'll usually see the sun at some time during the day. If we do have rain it's rarely for the whole day or for 2 days in a row. 
One important thing is the climate in Madrid is very dry so it's not damp in winter and it's not humid in summer so it's much easier to take the high/ low temperatures. There's not much wind either.
Also, houses in Madrid have central heating and if you get the insulation sorted out it can actually be warm!
We get a proper winter and a proper summer


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## angil (Sep 24, 2012)

jojo said:


> ....don't start me on Spanish winters lol, they were the biggest shock to me. Cold, wet, windy, floods.... Damp and cold houses that were expensive to heat.....
> 
> Jo xxx
> 
> Sent from my D5803 using Expat Forum


I think you & I must have live(d) in a different Spain during the Winter months to everyone else!
Having lived somewhere for 14 years that is truly bitterly cold and so crispy dry your skin peels off and you get static electric shocks constantly; I can catergorically state that the Costa del Sol was neither crispy cold or dry! It was nasty, dark & damp for most of the Winter this year!
& getting back to the OP. Driving Instructor? Well, as we don't speak Spanish, the only English speaking driving instructor for miles around seemed to be able to charge what he liked!
There does seem to be a gap in the market for a more youthful, reasonably priced driving instructor who caters to non Spanish speakers on the Costa del Sol. Anyone know one please PM me!


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## bandit1250 (Aug 5, 2014)

if you do train to be a driving instructor over here remember that the inside lane of a roundabout is there solely for the scooters to maintain their 'racing line' as they carve their way through traffic.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

angil said:


> I think you & I must have live(d) in a different Spain during the Winter months to everyone else!
> Having lived somewhere for 14 years that is truly bitterly cold and so crispy dry your skin peels off and you get static electric shocks constantly; I can catergorically state that the Costa del Sol was neither crispy cold or dry! It was nasty, dark & damp for most of the Winter this year!
> & getting back to the OP. Driving Instructor? Well, as we don't speak Spanish, the only English speaking driving instructor for miles around seemed to be able to charge what he liked!
> There does seem to be a gap in the market for a more youthful, reasonably priced driving instructor who caters to non Spanish speakers on the Costa del Sol. Anyone know one please PM me!


Our local Spanish instructor claims to be English speaking...
You may be in need of a driving instructor and I hope you find one but....do you think a living could be made, or even an income supplemented to any extent, from teaching immigrants to drive?
I would have thought that most immigrants here are either drivers of decades of experience or past driving themselves through age or infirmity.
I think it might be useful though to make it compulsory for those used to driving on the left as in the UK to have some sort of induction instruction, especially in reinforcing that here priority is given to the left on roundabouts etc...
But as there are a lot of hire car drivers I guess that would be impractical.
I'm looking forward to another summer of yelling 'Pillock!' and making vulgar gestures at drivers who cut across me from the right, causing me to brake violently and upsetting our dogs, nine times out of ten in hire cars.


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## angil (Sep 24, 2012)

mrypg9 said:


> Our local Spanish instructor claims to be English speaking...
> You may be in need of a driving instructor and I hope you find one but....do you think a living could be made, or even an income supplemented to any extent, from teaching immigrants to drive?
> I would have thought that most immigrants here are either drivers of decades of experience or past driving themselves through age or infirmity.
> I think it might be useful though to make it compulsory for those used to driving on the left as in the UK to have some sort of induction instruction, especially in reinforcing that here priority is given to the left on roundabouts etc...
> ...



Well, as Spanish is taught so badly at my children's 'International School' there does seem to be quite a few children, besides my own, who's command of Spanish would not allow them to sit any exam in that language.
Those children at 18 can, in fact, learn to drive (take the written exam earlier I believe?). & as you know in Spain 'the driving school of mum and dad' is not permitted. You can only go behind the wheel as a learner with a qualified instructor.I 
In fact the only 'immigrant' (shuddering as I type that word!!) children who seem to speak fluent Spanish are those who were 'immersed' in Spanish school as a tot. Only to be removed again later at Secondary level to give them a chance of a job in some far flung land like England with UK qualifications!
& it was for my daughter. I don't drive and have no intention of learning (not at €60 per lesson + €200 deposit etc etc. anyway!).
Maybe the OP could open an old folks home to house all the past it / infirm ex drivers instead?!


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

It's amazing, considering how much is spent on education in the UK and I presume in Spain, how poor the command of both written and spoken English is for native speakers of both languages.


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

angil said:


> In fact the only 'immigrant' (shuddering as I type that word!!) children who seem to speak fluent Spanish are those who were 'immersed' in Spanish school as a tot. Only to be removed again later at Secondary level to give them a chance of a job in some far flung land like England with UK qualifications!
> & it was for my daughter. I don't drive and have no intention of learning (not at €60 per lesson + €200 deposit etc etc. anyway!).
> Maybe the OP could open an old folks home to house all the past it / infirm ex drivers instead?!


Off topic but I have to disagree. 

Ours went to primary school, but not as tots, and have done very well. The eldest passed all his exams and is now at a Spanish University - these are accepted world-wide so no need to run to another school for different qualification like you suggest. If our children choose to live and work in another country, then they are better equipped now than they would have been by staying in UK!


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## gus-lopez (Jan 4, 2010)

snikpoh said:


> Off topic but I have to disagree.
> 
> Ours went to primary school, but not as tots, and have done very well. The eldest passed all his exams and is now at a Spanish University - these are accepted world-wide so no need to run to another school for different qualification like you suggest. If our children choose to live and work in another country, then they are better equipped now than they would have been by staying in UK!


But just as many UK degree's here are not accepted /need add.ons , so the same applies in the UK to Spanish qualifications.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

gus-lopez said:


> But just as many UK degree's here are not accepted /need add.ons , so the same applies in the UK to Spanish qualifications.


Some UK degrees aren't valued much in the UK either, a not unsurprising consequence of sending so many young people to university whether such further study is suitable for them or not.

What is in fact happening in the UK is that many employers, rightly or wrongly, are looking more at the University that awarded the degree than the degree itself. I have a friend who would employ someone with a lower second from a Russell Group University rather than someone with a first or upper second from a former Poly, especially if the degree is in psychology, media studies, sports science or sociology.
That may be a narrow-minded or even snobbish way of looking at things but it's happening.

But when you hear that some universities are offering courses in literacy and numeracy to fresher students it's not surprising that some people think like that.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

jojo said:


> ....don't start me on Spanish winters lol, they were the biggest shock to me. Cold, wet, windy, floods.... Damp and cold houses that were expensive to heat.....
> 
> Jo xxx
> 
> Sent from my D5803 using Expat Forum


Obviously, you didn't do your research very well!


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

Most foreign children learning Spanish in international schools and most Spanish children learning English in Spanish state schools probably don't learn very much because outside of a few hours a week of lessons, they don't speak it with their friends inside or outside of school, nor at home with their families. Thus they probably learn it to no better standard than I did French (or Latin and Greek) when I studied them in England more years ago than I care to remember.


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## angil (Sep 24, 2012)

snikpoh said:


> Off topic but I have to disagree.
> 
> Ours went to primary school, but not as tots, and have done very well. The eldest passed all his exams and is now at a Spanish University - these are accepted world-wide so no need to run to another school for different qualification like you suggest. If our children choose to live and work in another country, then they are better equipped now than they would have been by staying in UK!


When I said tot I meant Primary and below (most of the children in question seemed to have arrived around the age of 7). My kids are older; any child below the age of about 8 is a tot to me now!
I am happy to hear you children are doing well.
Our experience is at International Schools in Asia. We have debated my son returning to the American system. & my daughter did her IGCSEs in Korea. We don't think the UK has a superior system by any means! 
& I wasn't suggesting anything, merely pointing out my experience here in Spain.
But there is a disproportianate amount of children at these British / Int Schs here who started their schooling at 'free' Spanish schools only to switch to the overpriced 'private' schools for their Secondary education. 
& because of their early immersion speak fluent Spanish. 
My assumption was the IGCE / A level exams and a future out of impoverished Spain was the reason for the exodus? I could be totally wrong, as you say Spanish qualifications are just as widely regarded? With the exception of one girl who is going to Malaga Uni all of the 'immigrant' students who speak fluent Spanish at my daughters school are going to UK Uni's.
Sorry, yes this is totally off topic.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

baldilocks said:


> Obviously, you didn't do your research very well!


Why's that then???

Jo xxx


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## Leper (May 12, 2010)

Kingsway is 65, appears positive, practical, forward looking, well travelled, knowledgeable, probably a supporter of the Labour Party and probably has that something about him that would make anything work for him. If he read my posts of all that's negative in Spain, he probably would not come here even for a recce visit. 

But, if English speaking, affordable driving instructors are needed in Costa del Sol then there is an opening for him. There is a huge English speaking population in CdS, so a little investment in a car (plus association with other driving instructors, agency) might sort his situation. I think this guy should go for it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! even without Spanish.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

What has being a supporter of the Labour Party got to do with it? What makes you think he is anyway?
For all you know he could be a paid-up member of UKIP
Or the SWP

I'm surprised that you are suggesting he should 'go for it'. Quite contrary to your usual advice.

Wouldn't it be more sensible to check out the requirements for driving instructors in Spain first? Isn't there some sort of test he'd have to take, in Spanish presumably?
Maybe there is a demand for English driving instructors for British immigrants where you are but I doubt there is in my neck of the woods. 

On recent shopping trips to Estepona I have notice several shops advertising for staff but obviously fluent Spanish would be essential. Good Spanish plus native tongue English might give a better chance of employment, perhaps.
I get the feeling that things are picking up largely due to an increased number of tourists but wages aren't getting any higher or hours shorter.


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

mrypg9 said:


> What has being a supporter of the Labour Party got to do with it? What makes you think he is anyway?
> For all you know he could be a paid-up member of UKIP
> Or the SWP
> 
> ...



I think you have to read between the lines. Like all his posts, they have to be taken with a 'pinch of salt'.


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## angil (Sep 24, 2012)

mrypg9 said:


> What has being a supporter of the Labour Party got to do with it? What makes you think he is anyway?
> For all you know he could be a paid-up member of UKIP
> Or the SWP
> 
> ...


Quite the opposite a bit further along the coast. All the wanted signs in bars here are English essential;"CVs must be presented in English along with a photograph"; presumably in case you look too Spanish?! God knows! But I get the feeling speaking Spanish may be more of a hinderance than a help! I really need to move!!!


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

angil said:


> Quite the opposite a bit further along the coast. All the wanted signs in bars here are English essential;"CVs must be presented in English along with a photograph"; presumably in case you look too Spanish?! God knows! But I get the feeling speaking Spanish may be more of a hinderance than a help! I really need to move!!!


The practice of including photographs with CVs was something I found very odd when I first moved here, it's completely alien to what I was used to in the UK, and when the odd (very odd) candidate sent a covering letter plus photo with their job application, I thought they were nuts. However, it seems to be the norm here, and I can only assume that appearance counts when applying for a job, maybe especially so in bars, shops etc when employers are looking for attractive people who will appeal to their customers. You also routinely see adverts here asking specifically for a man or a woman, which wouldn't be allowed in the UK under the Sex Discrimination Act, unless there is a genuine occupational qualification.


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## angil (Sep 24, 2012)

Lynn R said:


> The practice of including photographs with CVs was something I found very odd when I first moved here, it's completely alien to what I was used to in the UK, and when the odd (very odd) candidate sent a covering letter plus photo with their job application, I thought they were nuts. However, it seems to be the norm here, and I can only assume that appearance counts when applying for a job, maybe especially so in bars, shops etc when employers are looking for attractive people who will appeal to their customers. You also routinely see adverts here asking specifically for a man or a woman, which wouldn't be allowed in the UK under the Sex Discrimination Act, unless there is a genuine occupational qualification.


The bars in question have a 'varied' bunch working in them already! I know beauty is in the eye of the beholder and all of that! & a head and shoulders shot isn't going to tell you if you have old sailor tattooes on your forearms! Or whatever! 
I am used to a countries 'alien' ways. There is nowhere odder than Asia! & the bars in question are British; if you didn't look out of the window you would swear you were back in blighty!


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Lynn R said:


> The practice of including photographs with CVs was something I found very odd when I first moved here, it's completely alien to what I was used to in the UK, and when the odd (very odd) candidate sent a covering letter plus photo with their job application, I thought they were nuts. However, it seems to be the norm here, and I can only assume that appearance counts when applying for a job, maybe especially so in bars, shops etc when employers are looking for attractive people who will appeal to their customers. You also routinely see adverts here asking specifically for a man or a woman, which wouldn't be allowed in the UK under the Sex Discrimination Act, unless there is a genuine occupational qualification.


I'm surprised it's allowed here. Didn't Spain sign up to the Social Chapter of the Maastricht Treaty?
Mind you, we all who love here know the difference between what is legal and what actually happens...


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## curlyclaire (Dec 31, 2011)

Hello Kingsway.
Can't advise you about becoming a Driving Instructor, but might be able to help in terms of your wife teaching English. I was based in the Huelva region of Andalusia a couple of years ago as an EFL teacher. My contract at the time was for 24 hours contact time (i.e. in the classroom, excluding planning and preparation) and I was paid roughly 13 euros per hour, which worked out at about 1,250 euros per month. It was o.k. for me as I am single and was renting, however teaching in private academies can feel very insecure. If you and your wife come out, perhaps she can get some academy work initially and maybe a year down the line work as a freelance teacher. The impression I got when I was in Spain, and I continue to get as I read these forums and those specifically for English teachers in Spain, was/is that The Crisis has actually increased the demand for English teachers of kids. (Can't comment on teaching for adults, however others on here can). Anyway, best of luck to both of you.


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