# Global economy in the tank....... but Dubai?



## Nickel (Dec 7, 2008)

Why are so many people wanting to come to Dubai? 

Granted, I have only been on this forum for a couple of months, but it seems more people are posting: "I am 'such and such' and want to work in Dubai." Does the global population think Dubai is still "paved with gold/oil/money"?

But the true question is:

How many of you know of friends, colleagues, acquaintances, etc who have been made redundant?

How many of you fear for your job?

IMHO, Dubai is not immune to the global crisis. And it will get worse before it gets better.

Gosh, I wish I had a couple million Dhs to buy some of the nice villas that are almost 50% of what they were 4 months ago!!!


----------



## nathlavallee38 (Oct 15, 2008)

Nickel said:


> Why are so many people wanting to come to Dubai?
> 
> Granted, I have only been on this forum for a couple of months, but it seems more people are posting: "I am 'such and such' and want to work in Dubai." Does the global population think Dubai is still "paved with gold/oil/money"?
> 
> ...


But I unfortunately think it will get a lot worse than that, in Dubai....Remember that the market, in Dubai, is mainly composed with real estate...and most of it is base on credit...one of the major cause of this crisis... I teach Economics (and French, so excuse my possible mistakes) and I'm ***sed off...I've been predicting this for more than 6 years..and I was not the only one who knew that it was going to happen..This has already happened in Japan in 1990, and it is happening again on a larger scale...Globalization obliges..And some of us think that all this have been conspired...in order to oblige us to give some more billions to banks and other international companies....GRRRRRR.....so, I'm was not very disapointed for them when I've heard about peoples leaving their debts in Dubai.....Some very rich men will do the same nearly, I predict it...within a near futur, the real estate market will favorize the buyers' market....Economics is a balande...But I still want to teach in Dubai, for sure...I can affort to pay income tax anymore (around 35% in Quebec) and its winters!..


----------



## FlyingDodo (Aug 26, 2008)

Sadly I think that recruitment agencies are still luring people with the promise of gold paved streets in Dubai.

I know people who have been made redundant, especially in Construction and Marketing. This is real and will get worse over the next quarter until foreign companies have taken stock of the impact of this recession.

I am not too fearful for my job as it is regional and not wholly dependent upon one country, and we need to grow despite what is happening in the developed economic world.

However, there will always be those who see the grass being greener (in Dubai!), especially when they waking up miserable in freezing weather, and obviously want a piece of the action.

Sadly the bubble is, if not burst, slowly deflating after the long party...


----------



## Maz25 (Jul 6, 2008)

FlyingDodo said:


> Sadly I think that recruitment agencies are still luring people with the promise of gold paved streets in Dubai.
> 
> I know people who have been made redundant, especially in Construction and Marketing. This is real and will get worse over the next quarter until foreign companies have taken stock of the impact of this recession.
> 
> ...


I totally agree with you. Recruiters are indeed making the problem worse as they are enticing more people to an already saturated market, mainly with false promises! The situation is not helped by the fact that the media is doing all it can to portray an image of economic stability.

Unfortunately, recession is part of economic cycle and this one was well overdue. Economies do go through a cycle of growth and recession, which is supposed to repeat every 10 years or so (recesson was supposed to hit when I was in my first year of uni! )

I think that for those of us that decide to stay here, we have to realise that Dubai will get a lot worse before we even start to see a glimmer of hope and at the very least (especially for those of us in construction) be prepared to ride this out for at least a year! And for people who are thinking of coming over, I think they need to realise that this is a fast-sinking ship! If you put too many people on it, it will sink even faster!

Hopefully, things will improve soon but I think that it is fair to say that we will never again see the level of contruction that has been going on in Dubai over the last decade - those times are gone! The next big thing now is Qatar!! The irony of it all is that we all flocked here to escape the recession and in actual fact, we would all have been better off staying at home - if only we'd all known!


----------



## rosco (Dec 22, 2008)

im here looking to get a job at the moment and am hearing so many negative stories.

some I agree, most of the items here but in threads it will just end up like in the uk market, which has been made 10 times worse by the press and media


----------



## Maz25 (Jul 6, 2008)

I find that in the UK, the media is making it out to be all doom and gloom and to say the least, there are still quite a few jobs going in there - probably cause the Govt did not try to build a city overnight.

Dubai is the exact opposite. Things are bad and if the predictions about redundancies are to be believed, then the situation is actually worse than it looks. It wouldn't be so bad if all concerned (including the media) admitted that there is a problem here and worked towards solving it rather than trying to make it out like everything is fine and rosy! Valuable resources are being wasted on trying to mask a problem than is already very much visible! We should all be trying to get the economy back on track and restore some faith in the market! Those of us that work in construction talk negatively about the economy whilst others talk positively about it. The sad truth is that we still are not doing anything to steer the boat towards calmer waters!

Fingers crossed, the storm will be over soon!


----------



## flossie (Jun 9, 2008)

Dubai is straight out of the fable, "The Emperor's New Clothes." Gulf News is just a PR newsletter. The so called journalists of that paper must be either willing to sell their integrity for a wage, or be mortified to be working for such a publication. I just have to see the amount of kids that have left my son's class this year to know that things aren't great.

Oh, and the fact that the powers that be are reviewing the visa rules for expats that have been made redundant speaks volumes.


----------



## Maz25 (Jul 6, 2008)

flossie said:


> Oh, and the fact that the powers that be are reviewing the visa rules for expats that have been made redundant speaks volumes.


Do you have a link for this article? My friend told me it was in The National but I can't seem to find it. Ta


----------



## flossie (Jun 9, 2008)

Ministry mulls plan for laid-off expats - The National Newspaper

There you go.


----------



## Maz25 (Jul 6, 2008)

flossie said:


> Ministry mulls plan for laid-off expats - The National Newspaper
> 
> There you go.


Thanks Flossie!


----------



## flossie (Jun 9, 2008)

Maz25 said:


> Thanks Flossie!


No worries.


----------



## Nickel (Dec 7, 2008)

I guess I asked the questions to hear other's view on "how it is now". Because, even though I have only been here a tad over 3 months, the difference from when I came and now is absolutely staggering!! Ex- I moved into The Greens around the 20th of Nov. It would take me 1.5 hours to get to the office mid-SZR (granted 50 minutes was spent getting OUT of the Greens!!). Now, I can leave and get to the office in 20 minutes.

When I first came, NEVER would I drive in Deira - day or night!! Traffic was a nightmare!! Now, what a breeze (though parking is another story). Ex- today I left home at 0815, to the Traffic Department to get my Drivers License, back to DHCC to talk to DHA, then to Rashid Trauma Center for a meeting at 11 (and I was 45 minutes early) and back to the office by 12. 

Luckily, I was brought over here for healthcare and, even in the States, I will never be without a job because healthcare is a basic, fundamental element of life - and there aren't enough workers in it. So, <fingers crossed> I don't fear for my job here. But,,,,,,,, who really knows, right?

I know there is a Sunni holiday of sorts and things may be different tomorrow as I think the holiday ended today, but........... Definitely, no matter what is printed or said, Dubai is in a heap big crisis. And, yes, honesty from "those in-the-know" admitting and recognizing the crisis would really be refreshing and nice. 

Ok, off my soapbox!!


----------



## Guest (Jan 7, 2009)

In short - Dubai screwed themselves up.

-2009 will continue to be a bad year


----------



## dzdoc (Oct 26, 2008)

Yes Pennie you are right. The world wide economy is in the tank. Many of us have gotten crushed this year as we have watched the money that our govt told us to put away as SS would not be around became a swirling circle in the tank. I started this whole quest for myself to come to Dubai to hopefully help shape a vision of good health care. People the world over will always get sick. I will still come because the vision is still there. But if you are not in a very needy high profession I would definitely rethink the position as your security and return trip may not be secure.


----------



## Falcon (Oct 4, 2008)

Nickel said:


> Why are so many people wanting to come to Dubai?
> 
> Granted, I have only been on this forum for a couple of months, but it seems more people are posting: "I am 'such and such' and want to work in Dubai." Does the global population think Dubai is still "paved with gold/oil/money"?
> 
> ...



In my opinion it is the beginning and not the end. There was a time nobody belived that it is possible that ***** Mae, Freddy Mac, Lehman Brothers etc. collapse. When i read some postings here it seams many people think Dubai is the land with milk and honey. It is a work place like any other, and for me the 2nd biggest bubble after US.
What i found out is your own risk management is very important before your sign a contract.

I was called for Interviews for Executive/Management position in the Hotel industry mid jan. 09 

The headhunter called me that the interviews are postphoned until the situation improve .The prospective employers (new hotels) don t hire staff until further notice and final construction stopped. Reason is the economic crisis and nobody knows where the hotel industry in UAE is going and this from the bottom to the top.

I belive after construction the next sectors will be affected are Recruitment Agencies, Hospitality, IT, .....a tail without end. 

Propertys are still overpriced and will fall more if you belive it or not.


I read in the news that UAE and GCC countrys will have by 2010 a new currency to get rid of the USD. In five months it will be decided where the new Central Bank is situated.

Maybe when it comes for me to discuss about a contract the priority will be the Currency EUR or CHF. Is this position not negotiable then i stay where i am.
Introduction of VAT in Dubai is in the pipeline .

People in Dubai climbed very high the ladder, but some have forgotten so higher they climb so deeper they can fall in to the sand. I think this is what s actually happen there like any other places in the world.

I don t belive that the world economic improve before mid 2010


So what attract people to go and work in Dubai? I have already pulled down my pink sunglass.


But where a crisis is, there are chances. Possibly it will come to an employee and tenant market. Lets wait and see!


----------



## Nickel (Dec 7, 2008)

Falcon,

I agree. We were talking about the "situation in Dubai" at work the last couple of days. I have been researching prospective commercial sites for about 2 months now. In the last week, I have been getting calls from RE agents - prices dropping quickily!! Ex- used to be 300 sf, now it is 200 sf!! Daily, I get the calls.

IMHO, it will get worse before it gets better, but it WILL get better. I truly believe this "situation" is more of a reality market adjustment - before now things were truly inflated.

What breaks my heart are the stories/inquiries from those who still believe (or are led to believe) Dubai is immune to the crisis, that things are going as previously planned here and that maybe Dubai is the answer to their difficulties/economic woes at home. One only needs to look at the decrease in traffic to figure out "something" is going on!!


----------



## Falcon (Oct 4, 2008)

Nickel said:


> What breaks my heart are the stories/inquiries from those who still believe (or are led to believe) Dubai is immune to the crisis, that things are going as previously planned here and that maybe Dubai is the answer to their difficulties/economic woes at home. One only needs to look at the decrease in traffic to figure out "something" is going on!!



Well there are still a lot of people who are thinking like wall street : the loosers today are the winners tomorrow. 

There are some who belive to change water in vine, and most thinking growth last forever ,remaining debts all around. I belive those paying cash instead to run every now and then to the bank to borrow money are in a better position and can sleep without panadol. I am watching the property market in Dubai and Abu D. and in approx.1.5 years i think to get something nice for peanuts, reducing riks to a maximum possible level.

Central Banks around the globe print paper money around the clock. Those are getting their salary in us currency will wondering how the value run through their fingers sooner as some people can imagine.

Folks in the finance, banking business in this forum know more what is going on in Dubai and i do not think they will tell us until we see when the car is smashed into the wall.


----------



## Xpat (Nov 12, 2008)

Just today out of blue 50% of employees got laid off in my company. Ask me to increase my responsibilities without any raise....... I decided to resign.

It is bad and Dubai's shiekh who had a vision to make thi splace paradise ---- is getting blurred.......


----------



## gforce23 (Aug 3, 2008)

Xpat said:


> Just today out of blue 50% of employees got laid off in my company. Ask me to increase my responsibilities without any raise....... I decided to resign.
> 
> It is bad and Dubai's shiekh who had a vision to make thi splace paradise ---- is getting blurred.......


Construction industry, I suppose?


----------



## Guest (Jan 9, 2009)

Dubai is the largest debt capita in the world for the time being due to the massive projects in which most of which are halted down or investors have pulled out... The economic situation in Dubai is quite bad, I don't care who here tries to back it up - it's pretty bad.... and how can anyone on here not see that...

Smallest, stupidest example but it means something; Has anyone noticed the crazy cut down in traffic? There's so much "lesser" cars on the road. Last week the Police found more than 2000 labor cards at the Airport, moreover a small % of people are pulling a "park & fly" driving their car to the airport and just leaving the country... 

and Don't even get my started with HSBC.... they've been hit hard and I bank with them - which makes me one angry customer looking to switch. and the customer service geeez I dont even wanna go there cuz I"ll never end this post 

Like every economist is saying 2009 to mid 2010 won't be much of a change, moreover gaining back the confidence of investors to Dubai is going to be one hell of a challenge.. Casinos & gambling are illegal in the UAE - however the Real Estate market was a Casino and they ran out of cash flow 

Dubai got a little too greedy for it's own good!


----------



## flossie (Jun 9, 2008)

On every forum I go to, there's a thread ranting about HSBC. You should have a look Crazymazy, it's HOURS of fun.


----------



## Guest (Jan 9, 2009)

flossie said:


> On every forum I go to, there's a thread ranting about HSBC. You should have a look Crazymazy, it's HOURS of fun.


I gotta meet that Crazy A-s-s-o-l-a-m-i-a. I figured out that HSBC policies in the UAE as well as the Middle-East are quite different from the ones in Europe & N. America because they do not consider this banking market a mature market....  They have a license to rob people!

Get this - check your credit card bill and tell me have you ever heard of a "Differed Finance Charges"? Do you know what a "Finance Charges" is every month?

Finance Changes = is what interest is but worded differently because it's "Haram" to charge interest in Islamic culture therefore its worded to "finance charges".

Differed Finance Charges is a system of robbery! Let's say you purchase 2000AED of whatever from the date of purchase HSBC gives you 56 days (why 56, god knows) to completely make that payment, if not? You get charged a percentage on that 2000AED over your monthly interest of the credit card. 

so now imagine within a month you've purchased a total of 5000AED your minimum payment + finance charges (which is the interest calculated seperately) + finance charges - so what I really think is whatever interest they say their credit cards really are it's not true because it's a marketing structure; let's say they give a credit card with 2.5 annual interest, that's broken into 12 months however the differed finance charges can represent as an extra 1 or 1.5% of interest over the current so that's a total of 3.5 or 4 % annual... you get the point...

RRRRRRRRR...... I can go on hours, days, weeks, months, years talking about how HSBC here is a robbery... I gotta get out - I'm still looking into which bank to bank my stuff.


----------



## crazymazy1980 (Aug 2, 2008)

flossie said:


> On every forum I go to, there's a thread ranting about HSBC. You should have a look Crazymazy, it's HOURS of fun.


Oh I do Flossie, mainly because I hang off your every word 

Joey,

I looked into the other banks and they did not fit my needs (always good to do your research). As long as you don't need to rely on the post then you can do pretty much everything yourself and it's very efficient. There must be a reason why HSBC is mentioned all the time and that could be something to do with people making the choice in the first place - do you not find it funny that NOBODY mentions any other bank are how they are so much better...

Up to 56 days interest free...

It's 8 weeks (divide by 7), it's not complicated, the month in which you made the purchase and a month to pay back what you borrowed. If you use a credit card for the purpose it's meant for then you should never pay any 'finance charges' at all.

I am from the UK and it's exactly the same period there too and that's for most credit cards so I'm not sure what the issue is? 

As for the whole 'finance charge', what that shows you is that as a responsible company HSBC considers the religious and cultural make-up of the region they are working in and adpats to the respective sensitivities - I think that's a pretty responsible atttitude to take showing respect for your host country. Hence why HSBC are proud to be "The World's Local Bank" 

Oh and HSBC are a green company with a responsible attitude to the environment too


----------



## Guest (Jan 9, 2009)

crazymazy1980 said:


> Up to 56 days interest free...
> 
> It's 8 weeks (divide by 7), it's not complicated, the month in which you made the purchase and a month to pay back what you borrowed. If you use a credit card for the purpose it's meant for then you should never pay any 'finance charges' at all.
> 
> I am from the UK and it's exactly the same period there too and that's for most credit cards so I'm not sure what the issue is?


Hey dude... 

Thanks for the post  and not to continue going off topic but - I've never heard of this 56 days interest free, and I grew up in the US/Canada... Ive always used credit cards, I use them to the max and pay them off in one or two shots, but the point Im making was in my opinion it's another form of molesting credit card owners  in a sophisticated way or another and I refuse to be molested


----------



## Falcon (Oct 4, 2008)

How does it work in Dubai with Debit Cards? I am used to it and cash.


----------



## flossie (Jun 9, 2008)

Australia is 56 days interest free, too.

Okay, Crazymazy, I bank with Emirates and have never had a problem. Actually, not quite true, we did have a problem but it was fixed promptly.

Incidentally, I had an account with HSBC in Australia and never had a problem with them, either.


----------



## crazymazy1980 (Aug 2, 2008)

Falcon said:


> How does it work in Dubai with Debit Cards? I am used to it and cash.


Different banks offer different systems for paying but there doesn't seem to be a standard debit card system with standard infrastructure at all outlets.

HSBC have ATM Card & Credit Cards
RAK Bank have a Debit Card System
I think NBD have Touch and Tap (You can use it at Subway)
Barclays may also have a Debit system as well

It does seem though that if you want a system that will work everywhere it's cash and Visa/Mastercard/AMEX

HTH


----------



## Xpat (Nov 12, 2008)

gforce23 said:


> Construction industry, I suppose?


Nah geomatics technology . Yep less traffic and less ppl in clubs.


----------



## Littleover_Ram (Nov 18, 2008)

I think we need to get a few things into perspective here. There are fewer jobs _by far_ in the UK when compared with population so this notion of 'at least there are still jobs there' does NOT stack up. I have friends in just about every sector and level of employment here and the situation is as hopeless as anywhere else. 500,000 jobs available in the Uk at the moment for a country with a population of 65m. And the vast, vast majority of these are part time vacancies in bars and the like. 

Why do people ask why folk want to come to Dubai? If you're getting a job you'll enjoy, perhaps enhancing your salary AND its tax free then why not?

I've just done the same and given up a 14 year career at a major bank. You have to do your research and due diligence on the company your going to work for and then do the maths regarding your own finances. My role is in demand because I bring cash INTO the bank - not lend it. Throw in the sun and sea and the fact that things in the UK are BLEAK in the extreme it starts becoming a no brainer.

I can understand our friends in construction, real estate and parts of the finance industry are negative at the moment but there has been a GLOBAL party and we've all enjoyed it. A lot. 

In the build up to moving there I would read some of the stuff on here and get nervous wondering if I'm doing the right thing. But then I had a quick look at prospects over here (the UK) and there is not a lot happening. A friend of mine has just moved to Iraq would you believe. Why? Because its right for him, And that's what I feel we should be advising people on this forum.

Sorry, rant over I promise.


----------



## Guest (Jan 10, 2009)

Littleover_Ram said:


> Why do people ask why folk want to come to Dubai? If you're getting a job you'll enjoy, perhaps enhancing your salary _*AND its tax free*_ then why not?


Hello Dear ol' Little'Over'Ram 

I love that 2 word sentence; "Tax Free"... well - come live here and find out how much taxes you'd save 

Salik + hijacked property + fines (speeding, parking, spitting and all that good stuff) and much more of that random stuff is Dubaian formula to vacumize your pocket (*pockets*, depending if you wear trousers with more than 1 pocket)  so tax free, I don't buy that stuff anymore, after being here for 3 + years. People come here for a higher salary and assume they are better than everyone else depending on the nature of their el'passporto's 

Although I like to think of Dubai's workforce as "the failed Med student" turned "Dentist" over night... let me break it down to yous guys... failures in their native country see Dubai as an alternative to which many are confused little individuals at work  (coughs* Nakheel employees...)

Cheerio ol'chap 
-Joey


----------



## Falcon (Oct 4, 2008)

JoeyDee said:


> Although I like to think of Dubai's workforce as "the failed Med student" turned "Dentist" over night... let me break it down to yous guys... failures in their native country see Dubai as an alternative to which many are confused little individuals at work  (coughs* Nakheel employees...)



You have taken it by the roots. In my country of residence it is similar starting from failures in their native countrys approx 80% to taxation and civil unrest.


----------



## Littleover_Ram (Nov 18, 2008)

JoeyDee said:


> Hello Dear ol' Little'Over'Ram
> 
> I love that 2 word sentence; "Tax Free"... well - come live here and find out how much taxes you'd save
> 
> ...


We'll debate it all over a beer Joey!


----------



## Guest (Jan 10, 2009)

Littleover_Ram said:


> We'll debate it all over a beer Joey!


So let it be written and let it be done. Whenever you get to Dubai - we'll all go out to those night outs..

-Joey


----------



## Littleover_Ram (Nov 18, 2008)

JoeyDee said:


> So let it be written and let it be done. Whenever you get to Dubai - we'll all go out to those night outs..
> 
> -Joey


Looking forward to it.

Speak soon.


----------



## Arshad Khan (Feb 5, 2009)

I lived in dubai for 10 years during the 80s and early 90s. Went back recently having heard all the hype. The place scared the living daylights out of me. How anyone in their right mind could invest any money at all in the world's biggest "ponzi" scheme is simply beyond me. What's happening in Dubai is of course a direct result of the global economic crisis, but Dubai is in a unique situation because the whole edifice was built on the premise that people from all over the world will simply keep buying into Dubai. It was never a realistic prospect with or without the global situation, which has simply hastened the demise. I was discussing a relatively small construction project with a banker and his advice was dead simple: Don't. Says it all really. The powers that be really need to stop burying their heads in the (not so pristine) sand, admit there is a problem and then make a genuine effort to deal with it. Right now i don't see that happening , and perhaps that is why my banker friend was being so brutally honest. Good luck to anyone who is committed long term to the place.


----------

