# Playing Roulette With Your Tourist Visa



## Waller52 (Jun 17, 2015)

I was reading three posts about updating an expiring tourist 180 day viza on another forum, the gist of it was that exiting MX (Merida) to Belize and turn-arounding quickly, expecting a new 180 day visa, is not so cut and dried, PM me for links.

Sounds like business as usual at the INM office on that border. When living Mx on a tourist permit you have to play their game. That INM official can give you 10 days on a FMM or 23 days, refuse to issue a new card too. It is up to them, they have the authority. The INM officer has access to the scan of your passport.

Beware. :fingerscrossed:


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## mes1952 (Dec 11, 2012)

I read on other forums that some had problems when they left Mexico and entered Belize to then return to Mexico for a new FMM so you might search the expat forums. < snip>


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

Just a comment on INM (Mexico Immigration) record keeping: 

I am in the process of applying for citizenship and one of the things they ask for is a record of entries and departures from Mexico. This record is available from INM. I have not gotten their record for me yet so I don't know how complete it will be, but it is clear that they do maintain a record on the arrival and departure of people. Whether this only applies to visa holders or includes people on a tourist permit, I don't know. My initial entry was on a tourist permit 8 years ago, which was immediately turned into an FM-3 and I have had a visa of one type or another ever since.


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## WilliamAshley (Jul 4, 2015)

TundraGreen said:


> Just a comment on INM (Mexico Immigration) record keeping:
> 
> I am in the process of applying for citizenship and one of the things they ask for is a record of entries and departures from Mexico. This record is available from INM. I have not gotten their record for me yet so I don't know how complete it will be, but it is clear that they do maintain a record on the arrival and departure of people. Whether this only applies to visa holders or includes people on a tourist permit, I don't know. My initial entry was on a tourist permit 8 years ago, which was immediately turned into an FM-3 and I have had a visa of one type or another ever since.


I don't know how it is logged but this is what I think. Each visa has a unique code on it. On arrival they scan the barcode/written visa code into the system. They collect the visa on departure - this is why you can't loose your visa as it is required to be replaced at cost before you leave. I've had a visa stolen from me before so I am familiar with the need to provide a visa on exit.

The visas themselves are likely logged on being provided and on being collected. This way they know if there are outstanding visas I am not sure if visa length is entered, I have been lucky enough to get 180 day stays on all my tourist visas.


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## RVGRINGO (May 16, 2007)

A tourist permit is not a visa. It is just one of the many forms for which the FMM is used.
Residente Permanente or Residente Temporal are actual visas.


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## WilliamAshley (Jul 4, 2015)

What is the difference between a tourist card and a visa? Currious? That is why is a FMM or FM3 or FM2 etc.. not considered a visa? Wouldn't the equiv in the US be called a visa such as B1/B2 visa etc..

For example even though I don't need to apply for a visa to enter the US as a tourist it is due to B1/B2 treaty status, BUT customs still revokes that visa individually. So Canadians are still entering the US "on a visa" when they enter into the US for travel or business.

I don't see the difference really can you explain?


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## joaquinx (Jul 3, 2010)

WilliamAshley said:


> What is the difference between a tourist card and a visa? Currious? That is why is a FMM or FM3 or FM2 etc.. not considered a visa? Wouldn't the equiv in the US be called a visa such as B1/B2 visa etc..
> I don't see the difference really can you explain?


Essentially any written approval to enter and travel through the hosts country is a visa. Rather like different types of tea -- it's still tea.

Another answer is that there is no FM3 or FM2. The tourist permit (FMM) is a Visitante. FM3 and FM2 are now Residente Temporal and Inmigrado is now Residente Permanente.

Lastly, if you are not given 180 days on your Visitante Permit, you can go to the nearest INM office and get an extension up to 180 days. You pay for this extension.


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

I never understood the difference either..it is really all about semantics and nothing else..I do not need a visa to go to the State because I am French but I need a permit from Homeland security and I have to pay for it...not a visa either. In some place you get a visa by just showing up and with others you have to pay and jump through hoops..


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## WilliamAshley (Jul 4, 2015)

joaquinx said:


> Essentially any written approval to enter and travel through the hosts country is a visa. Rather like different types of tea -- it's still tea.
> 
> Another answer is that there is no FM3 or FM2. The tourist permit (FMM) is a Visitante. FM3 and FM2 are now Residente Temporal and Inmigrado is now Residente Permanente.
> 
> Lastly, if you are not given 180 days on your Visitante Permit, you can go to the nearest INM office and get an extension up to 180 days. You pay for this extension.


I can see what you are saying good advice on the extension. Does getting an extension get done the same way as with customs? You know is length of stay based on financial resource or other factors?

The definition of VISA an endorsement made by an authorized representative of one country upon a passport issued by another, permitting the passport holder entry into or transit through the country making the endorsement.

The passport is stamped, but the form is stapled into the passport (or left non stapled, curious why sometimes it is stapled in and others it isn't. )

I am geussing there is some difference at law. Or perhaps the idea of a visa being permission from the "state/consulate" wheras the form is the permission from the exectutive/inami under immigration law. No idea.


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## joaquinx (Jul 3, 2010)

WilliamAshley said:


> I can see what you are saying good advice on the extension. Does getting an extension get done the same way as with customs? You know is length of stay based on financial resource or other factors?


No qualifications, simply a payment to extend the permit up to 180 days. Remember, you have to leave the country before or on the 180 day limit as it can NOT be extended again.


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## Bobbyb (Mar 9, 2014)

If you cross @ Nogales they do NOT collect your FMM. There is no office or booth on that side of the highway. If you turn it in they either toss it in the garbage or put it in a box. No scanning or stamping. Ours were almost 3 weeks overdue and they could care less. I have heard that one of the Texas crossings can give you a hard time.


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## Cristobal (Nov 25, 2014)

:


Bobbyb said:


> If you cross @ Nogales they do NOT collect your FMM. There is no office or booth on that side of the highway. If you turn it in they either toss it in the garbage or put it in a box. No scanning or stamping. Ours were almost 3 weeks overdue and they could care less. I have heard that one of the Texas crossings can give you a hard time.


Have you seen one tossed into the garbage?


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## Waller52 (Jun 17, 2015)

Cristobal said:


> :
> 
> Have you seen one tossed into the garbage?


I would think all tourist _visas_, er, FMMs , go to the garbage at some point. The system knows 180 days, the question is if they take it in at [wherever] and don't record your exit, what happens when you show up for another 180 day *FMM*?


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## Cristobal (Nov 25, 2014)

Waller52 said:


> I would think all tourist _visas_, er, FMMs , go to the garbage at some point. The system knows 180 days, the question is if they take it in at [wherever] and don't record your exit, what happens when you show up for another 180 day *FMM*?


Based on what experience do you assume thet aren't entered into the system?


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## joaquinx (Jul 3, 2010)

With some 25 million tourists a year, I'm sure that Mexico doesn't keep track of all those FMMs and certainly does not archive them.


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## Cristobal (Nov 25, 2014)

joaquinx said:


> With some 25 million tourists a year, I'm sure that Mexico doesn't keep track of all those FMMs and certainly does not archive them.


Even 40 years ago thet kept track. Both entry, exit and failure to turn in the permit. And that was at a time of more primitive technology. This I know from first hand experience.


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## joaquinx (Jul 3, 2010)

Cristobal said:


> Even 40 years ago thet kept track. Both entry, exit and failure to turn in the permit. And that was at a time of more primitive technology. This I know from first hand experience.


You worked for INM? That settles everything.


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

They do keep tract of them, I saw it first hand when I became a citizen. My passport was stolen so I had to reconstrcut my trips over the previous 3 years by memory. After I turned in my letter saying that I was not 100% sure of the dates, they pulled a compter generated report showing all my entries and exit. They do keep tract of entries and exits.


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## Cristobal (Nov 25, 2014)

joaquinx said:


> You worked for INM? That settles everything.


Remember the old saying about the definition of the word "assume"?


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## joaquinx (Jul 3, 2010)

Cristobal said:


> Remember the old saying about the definition of the word "assume"?


It's sad about your disposition.


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## Waller52 (Jun 17, 2015)

Cristobal said:


> Based on what experience do you assume thet aren't entered into the system?


On the ass-umption that not every one can possibly be entered, it is statistically and logically impossible when humans and/or technology fails. Now that is settled...

What happens when they do not enter your FMM as 'turned in', and you return for another 180 day FMM? :juggle:


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## Waller52 (Jun 17, 2015)

Bobbyb said:


> If you cross @ Nogales they do NOT collect your FMM. There is no office or booth on that side of the highway. *If* you turn it in they either toss it in the garbage or put it in a box. No scanning or stamping. Ours were almost 3 weeks overdue and they could care less.


To wit...


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## chicois8 (Aug 8, 2009)

At Sonoyta / Lukeville AZ you had to turn in the FMM before they would cancel the TIP...


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## Bobbyb (Mar 9, 2014)

Cristobal: I cannot speak for other crossings but my experience @ Nogales is as I said. As for your comments about them keeping track years ago: Just how did they do that. La Migra just got computers a few years ago. They never had passport scammers @ Nogales until 3 years ago. I have been crossing for over 25 years. I watched them throw the forms into a garbage can. This was the old FMT ( or maybe it had a different name). When we turned them in the first time I was given a look that meant ( Are you crazy? Why are you bothering us with paperwork? ) That was the last time we turned them in. Like most travelers we threw them away. Until 2 years ago we had FM3's . I know others who have never returned the FMM's. If they were keeping track why didn't the computer red flag us? How could you state that years ago someone was tracking crossings? 25 years ago the guys at the border wore those shiney old Green uniforms and the only thing they wanted from you was Mordida. Even had a tip jar on the counter. For $20 America's Most Wanted could cross! There were no modern systems. Even the typewriters were Antiques! Today they do have the infrastructure to track all travelers but I have yet to see anything being done. I am also confident that one day soon this will change. Keep in mind this is a country were you can just pull up to the traffic lite and if you get a green no one knows who you are or where you are going! Your car could be stolen and you have not even showed the officials a passport!


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## Playaboy (Apr 11, 2014)

I have an RP visa. I cross back and forth all the time. Recently I crossed at TJ, Mexicali, Nogales, Laredo and Reynosa and have flown into GDL and Cancun. I always stop and check out.  Each and every time my passport has been scanned , the barcode of my FMM is scanned and my visa is scanned.

It is your responsibility to stop at IMN check out. Today everything is computerized and scanned. It takes 5 minutes to check out, why wouldn't you want to comply?


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## Bobbyb (Mar 9, 2014)

Citlala: Was that crossings with an FMM or some other form of immigration papers? If you were applying to be a citizen I would think those records were of crossings done with an FM2 or 3 or it's equivalent. Tis discussion is about FMM's.


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## Cristobal (Nov 25, 2014)

In 1977 a surfing pal of mine and I were picked up by judiciales federales in a beach town and taken to Guadalajara for interrogation. My friend had been falsely implicated in an armed robbery in the US, I happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. A simple case of guilt by association in both of our cases. His, directly with the people responsible for the robbery and mine by being present at the time they grabbed him. We were driven to Guadalajara in the company of the 3 judiciales and an FBI agent working on the case. At some point during the 3 days we were held we were shown all of our comings and goings (and there were plenty) to this country. This included the times our tourist passes were not turned in upon exiting the country. In fact, the log of our time in this country provided a pretty good alibi as it showed we were in Mexico at the time of the robbery.. After it was obvious that neither of us had anything to do with the crime, and the atmosphere changed from hostile and accusatory, during a conversation with the FBI agent and an official from the US Consulate present at the time, it was explained that the records of entry and exit were recorded on a data base on a computer in Mexico City supplied to the government here by Interpol.


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## Waller52 (Jun 17, 2015)

Waller52 said:


> On the ass-umption that not every one can possibly be entered, it is statistically and logically impossible when humans and/or technology fails. Now that is settled...
> 
> What happens when they do not enter your FMM as 'turned in', and you return for another 180 day FMM? :juggle:


So I asked a person who had this problem, here is what he said.
_
"I was denied re-entry until I could establish to their (MX) satisfaction when I left MX. I had to come up with receipts for gas with my look a like signature, hotel stays, and another dozen or so items to prove I had left. I was told if there is no one at the exit station, then go find one where there is somebody.

If the MX at the station f**** up the data entry, too bad, it's on me to prove I left. I finally got back in after several trips to the border, to my MX consulate and a huge hassle to collect and again get more documents."_

:juggle::drama::fencing::frusty::crazy:


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