# Have the Spanish government introduced a 25% expat tax on all assets?



## tmark938 (Jan 8, 2013)

My friend told me that the Spanish government has introduced (or is looking to do so) a one-off 25% tax on all expat assets - even those held overseas. Surely this cant be right?


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

No. Your friend is either sadly misinformed or pulling your leg - and the equivalent of April Fool's Day in Spain isn't till 28 December.


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## tmark938 (Jan 8, 2013)

Thanks very much  You have put my mind at rest


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## gus-lopez (Jan 4, 2010)

But they are talking about something.
Andalucia introduced a tax on deposits in 2011 which the government then outlawed by stripping the regions of there right to implement any such taxes & leaving only the government with the power to do so. but they are definitely up to something as I read an article concerning it at the week-end.
Any such measure would immediately lead to the complete exodus of money in the Spanish system ; unless they also introduced measure limiting you only to withdrawals of 50c.
I wouldn't put anything past them & wouldn't trust them as far as I could throw them.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

gus-lopez said:


> But they are talking about something.
> Andalucia introduced a tax on deposits in 2011 which the government then outlawed by stripping the regions of there right to implement any such taxes & leaving only the government with the power to do so. but they are definitely up to something as I read an article concerning it at the week-end.
> Any such measure would immediately lead to the complete exodus of money in the Spanish system ; unless they also introduced measure limiting you only to withdrawals of 50c.
> I wouldn't put anything past them & wouldn't trust them as far as I could throw them.


So..this will only apply to British immigrants, then, Gus..


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

tmark938 said:


> My friend told me that the Spanish government has introduced (or is looking to do so) a one-off 25% tax on all expat assets - even those held overseas. Surely this cant be right?


Clearly this is untrue or only part of the story at best. How would they collect 25% of your house value?

A one-off tax on the value of your property PLUS 25% of any money in the bank - ends up being a 50% tax on cash!!!!!


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## olivefarmer (Oct 16, 2012)

I haven't heard anything about this , however it is my firm belief that the EU "tested " bank asset grab on a small sample(Cyprus) to see how that would work with a larger country(countries). They now have a handle on leaks, timescales, processes

The ever increasing debts of countries like the UK(£3000 a second) and Spain are not going to be brought under control without draconian measures. When the cards are down the only place to go for money is those with money i.e bank accounts. In between they will tinker with ideas to swell the coffers but the bottom line is you cannot extract money from people with none. 

Don't be fooled by the guff churned out by the press about "green shoots, increased export, growth etc etc". What else can you say when you house is on fire.?


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

I think there should be an immigrant tax. It should be imposed on drunken British, German, Scandinavian and other louts, people who show too much flesh in public, people who think their arrival in Spain is rescuing the natives from a life of riding donkeys and growing tomatos, people who drive battered old UK plated cars although resident, people who think Spanish laws apply only to Spanish nationals, people who know no Spanish after living here for decades and get by by shouting loudly in English etc.at the natives and to people who confidently pass on rumours without the slightest shred of substance other than in their own feverish imaginations.
Tax to be levied at a Very High Rate.


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

mrypg9 said:


> I think there should be an immigrant tax. It should be imposed on drunken British, German, Scandinavian and other louts, people who show too much flesh in public, people who think their arrival in Spain is rescuing the natives from a life of riding donkeys and growing tomatos, people who drive battered old UK plated cars although resident, people who think Spanish laws apply only to Spanish nationals, people who know no Spanish after living here for decades and get by by shouting loudly in English etc.at the natives and to people who confidently pass on rumours without the slightest shred of substance other than in their own feverish imaginations.
> Tax to be levied at a Very High Rate.



You can never show too much flesh in public (IMHO)


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

snikpoh said:


> You can never show too much flesh in public (IMHO)


You obviously haven't seen me in a bikini....


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## gus-lopez (Jan 4, 2010)

mrypg9 said:


> So..this will only apply to British immigrants, then, Gus..


No , why should it ? It will apply to everyone. I would deal with it the same way as if I caught someone robbing my house/car. 
Perhaps this is what the 'citizen security' law is in place for ? 

Once you no longer have confidence in the government/police/banking system , then there is no longer any place for them.


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## maxd (Mar 22, 2009)

We are all equal in the eyes of the law, you cannot discriminate against a particular group, although Spain tries they usual end up being told to back off by the EU.

The IMF discussing a 10% tax on everyone but the irony here is that they pay zero tax on their salaries.

Why The IMF's 10% Wealth Tax Simply Will Not Work - Forbes


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## el pescador (Mar 14, 2013)

is Spain really that much in the ****?
I see the stock market there has gone up quite a bit from june.

Also retail figures have clearly hit the low point although i dont think it could realistically get any lower looking at the percentages.
With unemployment stabilising too..


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

el pescador said:


> is Spain really that much in the ****?
> I see the stock market there has gone up quite a bit from june.
> 
> Also retail figures have clearly hit the low point although i dont think it could realistically get any lower looking at the percentages.
> With unemployment stabilising too..


We went to a large shopping mall near Marbella on Monday and to Carrefour yesterday. Both were packed, we found difficulty parking but it seemed that most people weren't buying, just looking. No queues for probadores or at tills and checkouts. Few people with bulging shopping bags.

When push comes to shove your stock markets or other such indices mean very little compared to money over shop counters. Anyone in business knows that. No customers, no profit, no tax revenue. If people don't have money in their pockets, no spending.
Which is why austerity won't work.


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## VFR (Dec 23, 2009)

mrypg9 said:


> We went to a large shopping mall near Marbella on Monday and to Carrefour yesterday. Both were packed, we found difficulty parking but it seemed that most people weren't buying, just looking. No queues for probadores or at tills and checkouts. Few people with bulging shopping bags.
> 
> When push comes to shove your stock markets or other such indices mean very little compared to money over shop counters. Anyone in business knows that. No customers, no profit, no tax revenue. If people don't have money in their pockets, no spending.
> Which is why austerity won't work.


Primark though in Bonnaire Valencia is always packed with Spanish shopping, in fact a couple of weeks ago they were stopping people going in as it was getting to crowded.
All the other shops in the centre had just a handful of shoppers mouching around & of course prices a good deal higher than Primark.


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## olivefarmer (Oct 16, 2012)

el pescador said:


> is Spain really that much in the ****?
> I see the stock market there has gone up quite a bit from june.
> 
> Also retail figures have clearly hit the low point although i dont think it could realistically get any lower looking at the percentages.
> With unemployment stabilising too..


Yes , here are a few things to ponder.

Immigration/emigration. ES forecast for the foreseeable future(ten years) is 1 in (older people) 2 out(younger people)

Jobs. The jobless situation and therefore tax take isn't going to return to healthy while the country is tied to the Euro. 

Banks. The banks are in debt to a massive tune. Two aspects: 
Billions of Toxic loans on millions of properties.
Huge exposure to Portuguese debt. Portugal will need a bailout next year in my view. That inevitably will mean the banks taking a haircut. The banks also had to lend to other countries that needed bailouts.

National debt. Still increasing faster than any other EU country . The UK is second (increasing at £3000 a second). I still forecast the Uk to run out of money mid 2017. Spain before that. 

Stock market. A red herring. Investors (like pension funds and so on) have to invest their customers money somewhere. Stock markets are as good a place as anywhere hence the increases. Why would they put it in a bank and get half a percent p.a.


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## el pescador (Mar 14, 2013)

investors certainly wont invest in companies cutting dividends which would happen if things were that bad with them......i certainy wouldnt although i have holdings in lloyds and barclays because they are actually in good positions to grow...for completely varying reasons.

i also hold a spanish bank in my portfolio.

i seriously dont think investors would be raising the ibex with the gold price at a reasonable level..surely?

imo those figures give optimism


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## gus-lopez (Jan 4, 2010)

gold is down 30% from start of 2013.
Investors (speculators !) will always bet on the ones that have fallen realising that they give the biggest returns in shortest period. It is when they start to get cold feet/take the profits/become nervous that there's an elephant in the room that the problems will start once again.


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## el pescador (Mar 14, 2013)

lower gold prices = good sign


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## gus-lopez (Jan 4, 2010)

But is it ? normally you are correct but is the lower price at present just due to the speculators gambling on the low markets in various countries on the prospect of large returns , mainly caused by there investing, artificially forcing prices to rise, & nothing to do with the actual economic recovery. If there aren't any clear signs of recovery & they suddenly get jittery & pull out , the gold price will shoot up & the damage caused to the various countries will imho be worse than before. 
What I have always said for years is that 'investment' in companies/markets , on the basis that they will expand ,improve , etc; is long gone & now it is gambling, nothing else. The vast majority have no interest in the welfare/prospects of the markets/companies they are investing in, only on a good return in as short a period as possible.


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## el pescador (Mar 14, 2013)

id have agreed with you but...for dividends to still be attractive something must be going well.

if companies arent doing well they wont be paying $$


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

el pescador said:


> id have agreed with you but...for dividends to still be attractive something must be going well.
> 
> if companies arent doing well they wont be paying $$


Dividends have to be 'attractive' when bank deposits yield 0.5%! 
Not all companies use profits to raise yields on shares. Sensible ones reinvest in new plant, equipment or personnel.
It's not really good for the economy when more can be earned from investing than increased productivity. Time was, in the 1970s, when UK companies preferred to invest profits in the markets rather than in productivity. We know where that lead!!


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## Williams2 (Sep 15, 2013)

mrypg9 said:


> I think there should be an immigrant tax. It should be imposed on drunken British, German, Scandinavian and other louts, people who show too much flesh in public, people who think their arrival in Spain is rescuing the natives from a life of riding donkeys and growing tomatos, people who drive battered old UK plated cars although resident, people who think Spanish laws apply only to Spanish nationals, people who know no Spanish after living here for decades and get by by shouting loudly in English etc.at the natives and to people who confidently pass on rumours without the slightest shred of substance other than in their own feverish imaginations.
> Tax to be levied at a Very High Rate.


It's funny you should say that - because that's exactly the view the British
have of the new EU entrant's ( Bulgaria and Romania ) with free movement
of labour into UK next year. With a few caveats of course, like signing up
to Benefits upon arrival but yes - should be more battered old Eastern
European number plate cars on British roads next year. With no thought to
convert them.


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## NickZ (Jun 26, 2009)

olivefarmer said:


> National debt. Still increasing faster than any other EU country . The UK is second (increasing at £3000 a second). I still forecast the Uk to run out of money mid 2017. Spain before that.
> 
> Stock market. A red herring. Investors (like pension funds and so on) have to invest their customers money somewhere. Stock markets are as good a place as anywhere hence the increases. Why would they put it in a bank and get half a percent p.a.


If you own the printing press it's impossible to run out of money. The UK can print all the money they want. The results might not be pretty but they can't run out of money.

The main problem in Spain is they can't print any money. Spain and much of the Euro zone is trying to do an Internal devaluation. If you don't know how bad that can be google Lativa.

Spain's biggest companies aren't "Spanish". Santandar is mainly a non Spanish bank with a Spanish HQ. Telefonica is pretty much the same. The large retailer I can't remember is also the same. Add in BBVA and a few others and the Spanish stock market is less Spanish then most people here.


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## NickZ (Jun 26, 2009)

mrypg9 said:


> Time was, in the 1970s, when UK companies preferred to invest profits in the markets rather than in productivity. We know where that lead!!


Easiest way to increase productivity is to cut salaries. You'll notice all the factories moving to eastern Europe ,Turkey or even North Africa.


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## BBCWatcher (Dec 28, 2012)

NickZ said:


> If you own the printing press it's impossible to run out of money. The UK can print all the money they want. The results might not be pretty but they can't run out of money.


Further, the results are pretty (or at least not ugly) in depression economies. Inflation requires more than a printing press.


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