# Moving to Tokyo



## rigger1976

Hello all, My wife and I will be returning to our home in Tokyo next year and I wanted to find out how long it took for you to get your long term visa once you filed the papers in the states. My wife will file all of the paperwork at the Japan Immigration office and then will send me my letter so that I can file it in the states so that will all be taken care of. Thanks everyone!!!


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## BBCWatcher

You can do it that way, the "hard" way.  But my understanding is that you can also handle the foreign spouse's alien registration and residence extension after you arrive in Japan. The exception is if the foreign spouse needs a visa to travel to Japan even for ordinary short stays.

The reason you can "convert" in country is a bit odd compared to other countries, though other countries (especially in Europe) accomplish much the same thing in other ways. As best I understand it, most other countries don't consider short stay tourists to be "residents." Japan is different, though. _Everybody_ is a "resident," even those with "Temporary Visitor" stickers when they enter Japan, but residents vary in how long they have permission to stay. (It's simpler in many ways. Tax rules, for example, can be more universal and vary based only on length of stay and activities, not on status.) So once in Japan a foreign spouse (co-resident with his/her Japanese or long-stay spouse) simply applies to extend the residence he/she already has, even as a Temporary Visitor. Almost all residents with permission to stay more than 3 months must obtain alien registration cards, and since mid-2012 those are nationalized. [Alien registration cards used to be issued and managed at the ward office level, but the national government wasn't happy with the inconsistencies, with some wards loving their local "irregular" aliens a bit too much.  It's too bad because the ward offices were a lot easier to reach and much more convenient.]

There are three reasons I can think of why a visa exempt foreign spouse still might want to complete the few formalities that can be completed outside Japan before entering. One is if the foreign spouse expects to start work in Japan very quickly, and that spouse wants to minimize the "downtime" before having the documentation to work. In practice Japan is very efficient as long as you can follow rules, so there's not much delay, but there might be a bit. A second reason is if you are just a bit nervous for whatever reason(s) and just feel more comfortable handling as much as you can ahead of time. A third reason is if the foreign spouse fears being denied entry -- has a criminal past or previous overstay, perhaps? -- and wants to have some better assurance (though still not a guarantee) of being admitted. In other words, the particular spouse is _questionably_ visa exempt.


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## larabell

The last I knew, Temporary Visitor status could not be extended. It's not actually a visa, per-se, it's a "status of residence" which simply means it's a category for tracking non-Japanese physically present in Japan. Residency is a separate concept (Temporary Visitors, for example, are not eligible for resident cards).

The proper name for the procedure, assuming you come over as a Temporary Visitor, is Application for Change of Status. It used to be that a Temporary Visitor couldn't change status without leaving the country but immigration rules have been getting less strict across-the-board over the last decade or so.



BBCWatcher said:


> ... It's too bad because the ward offices were a lot easier to reach and much more convenient.


That's a common complaint among expats that I really don't understand. Before the change, any time you renewed your passport or wanted to extend your visa, you'd have to visit both Immigration *and* the ward office. Now it's all handled in one place. Most simple changes (like addresses, which change more often) still go through the ward office. And if your passport number changes, you don't have to report that at all any more. So from my POV, the new system is easier.

But... on that same subject... one more advantage of getting a proper visa before coming over is that your Zauryu (resident) Card will be waiting for you at the airport and you probably won't have to visit Immigration at all, at least for a while. Also, there are other things you will find difficult or impossible as a Temporary Visitor, such as opening a bank account, renting an apartment, or signing up for cell phone service. If you aren't in a hurry to move, applying for the visa the so-called "hard way" could save you some hassle in the long run.

BTW, if you haven't lived in Japan before, you probably won't get a "long-term" visa. Spousal visas usually aren't valid for any longer than regular working visas, at least for the first couple of rounds. If you're planning on staying, you'll likely want to apply for Permanent Residence after the first couple of renewal cycles.

To answer your specific question, a Certificate of Eligibility seems to take anywhere from a couple of weeks to a couple of months, depending on the complexity and the backlog at Immigration. Once you have that, the visa itself usually only takes a couple of days. There's nothing preventing you from coming over before then and applying for the visa once the CoE comes through.

BTW, you actually can work as a Temporary Visitor since that status of residence is used for both tourism and business visits. But that might only fly if you happen to be working for a company in your home country and you continue to work as though you were simply on a business trip. Many soon-to-be expats take pre-move "house hunting" trips while their visa paperwork is in the queue. You would likely run afoul of the authorities if you found or started your new job upon arrival.


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## BBCWatcher

I largely agree with what you wrote, Larabell, and I don't think we're disagreeing about that "status of residence" part. Yes, of course, Temporary Visitors who want to stay (and are eligible to stay) need to file some paperwork to do so, and that includes foreign spouses arriving as Temporary Visitors.

Yes, also agreed about other things like bank accounts and mobile phones if you're schedule sensitive about those things (most people shouldn't be, but some are).(*) In practice Japanese processes are quite efficient so long delays would be surprising even if you arrive as a Temporary Visitor. As pointed out, though, some people are in a rush. 

As I recall, with a passport renewal (I had one), it wasn't necessary to visit the Immigration Office _in person_. Somebody else could do that for you, and it was only every 9 1/2 years for most people anyway. Maybe that's still true post-2012. The ward office part (the "gaijin card") required an in person visit, and that was generally more convenient -- and even, dare I say, "fun"? -- at the ward office. So "your mileage may vary," and it's moot anyway since there's no choice, but I really did prefer the ward office arrangement in place before mid-2012.

(*) There are some reasonable reasons why you _shouldn't_ be in a rush. It usually takes a bit of time to get your bearings, to figure out which bank has the ATMs that are most convenient, for example. Or which have the lowest costs for the type of banking you need to do. Or which have the best deal with your employer. And which mobile carrier has the better service and better offer if you want to take up a contract -- and which works better on the train ride from your new place to your workplace, for example. Or whether your new employer is going to be providing a phone anyway. In the meantime, your foreign cards still work (at least at the Post Office and 7-11), and so does your 3G mobile phone. U.S. T-Mobile even has a fantastic deal for global data and text message roaming if you happen to be one of their customers. _Pace yourself_ on this stuff, and take some time to do your homework.


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## larabell

Perhaps I'm just sensitized to the issue of passport and visa renewals. With two small kids whose passports expire on a 5-year cycle and whose visas had to be extended on a 3-year cycle (until this year, fortunately) I'd become somewhat of an old-hat at the requirements of Immigration and Registration, slogging through some sort of renewal procedure almost annually. It's definitely easier for me now than it was before the change. And yes... a visit to Immigration was necessary for a passport renewal because you had to get the stamps affixed to the new passport before you could re-enter the country after a trip overseas. Just not needing to apply for a re-entry stamp saved me several trips to Immigration over the years (I've been here quite a while now).

With any luck, they'll both have PR by the beginning of next year and the next time the oldest comes up for any kind of renewal, he'll be old enough to wait in the lines himself.


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## BBCWatcher

Yes, if you're the one doing the slogging to the Immigration Office with passport renewals (plural!) it's not fun. Fortunately I had somebody else do the slogging for me with my renewed passport. 

My particular ward office had a very localized "welcome" guide for foreigners, published in English and perhaps also in a couple other languages, that they handed out when you visited. It was really quite good and useful, and it explained things like how to sort your trash properly (a bit of a mystery in Japan!), where you could get free or low cost immunizations for your children, how to get emergency help, clubs and organizations that foreigners might be interested in, library services, etc., etc. It was good stuff, and my particular ward put a lot of thought into their guide. That highly localized opportunity was lost in the cutover to the Immigration Offices with their much larger regions of coverage.

Anyway, it's a moot point now. The new/current system is the one that has to be followed. Though you might still be able to have somebody else handle some issues on your behalf, like passport renewal situations, if you're so fortunate (and somebody else not ).


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## rigger1976

*Thank you*



BBCWatcher said:


> You can do it that way, the "hard" way.  But my understanding is that you can also handle the foreign spouse's alien registration and residence extension after you arrive in Japan. The exception is if the foreign spouse needs a visa to travel to Japan even for ordinary short stays.
> 
> The reason you can "convert" in country is a bit odd compared to other countries, though other countries (especially in Europe) accomplish much the same thing in other ways. As best I understand it, most other countries don't consider short stay tourists to be "residents." Japan is different, though. _Everybody_ is a "resident," even those with "Temporary Visitor" stickers when they enter Japan, but residents vary in how long they have permission to stay. (It's simpler in many ways. Tax rules, for example, can be more universal and vary based only on length of stay and activities, not on status.) So once in Japan a foreign spouse (co-resident with his/her Japanese or long-stay spouse) simply applies to extend the residence he/she already has, even as a Temporary Visitor. Almost all residents with permission to stay more than 3 months must obtain alien registration cards, and since mid-2012 those are nationalized. [Alien registration cards used to be issued and managed at the ward office level, but the national government wasn't happy with the inconsistencies, with some wards loving their local "irregular" aliens a bit too much.  It's too bad because the ward offices were a lot easier to reach and much more convenient.]
> 
> There are three reasons I can think of why a visa exempt foreign spouse still might want to complete the few formalities that can be completed outside Japan before entering. One is if the foreign spouse expects to start work in Japan very quickly, and that spouse wants to minimize the "downtime" before having the documentation to work. In practice Japan is very efficient as long as you can follow rules, so there's not much delay, but there might be a bit. A second reason is if you are just a bit nervous for whatever reason(s) and just feel more comfortable handling as much as you can ahead of time. A third reason is if the foreign spouse fears being denied entry -- has a criminal past or previous overstay, perhaps? -- and wants to have some better assurance (though still not a guarantee) of being admitted. In other words, the particular spouse is _questionably_ visa exempt.


Thank you for the info. My wife a Japan Local also told me I should arrive in Japan after she has received the approval letter and apply for long term status but was worried that it might be an issue. I do not have a record I am a 20 year Navy Vet Living in Italy for now but will be in the states to do my retirement. We might try the way you are talking about and see if that would be quicker than getting the letter of approval sending to me, then having to go to a local Japan Immigration office in the states and Appling:juggle: for the long term stay.


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## larabell

I think you're just grasping for straws here... the new immigration procedures shouldn't have any effect on whether your local ward office publishes a welcome guide. In most of the guides I've seen, registration procedures only take up a couple of pages, at most. There's a lot more to know about living in Japan than just foreign registration. Of course, without an excuse to show up at the ward office, some people wouldn't bother -- but, as I mentioned already, the ward offices still handle most local issues like address changes.

Of course, almost all that "welcome guide" information is online these days so the dead-tree edition may eventually go the way of the dodo. But that's not because Immigration took over the task of registering foreign residents.


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## rigger1976

I am not worried so much about what to know about living in Japan as I lived there for over 10 yrs and only left due to my job making me move. Thank you for all the info.. As I go through this process I will post my positive and negative results


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## BBCWatcher

larabell said:


> Of course, without an excuse to show up at the ward office, some people wouldn't bother....


That was my point.

But who cares? The old system is gone. I liked it, you liked it less, so what?


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