# Building in Tulum



## Greenlady

Hi,

My first post. We currently live in Canada but have purchased land in Tulum and are now looking to build a home. Has anyone had experience with this? 

Currently the attorney who worked with our realtor is also now working with an architect/builder and I'm a little leery of this situation as when I ask for company bank accounts to wire or get money too, I am given personal accounts. Warning bells!!! 

However, when we were in Tulum in March we met with them (and the designer) and liked them and it seemed like a good business model. We were shown a home in progress and another property where the footings were going in for another home (told it would take 2 1/2 months to build - which I know is very different from most experiences which they acknowledged and were very proud of how they are doing things differently). 

I want to trust them but not sure if this is the normal way of doing business in Mexico. Any help/advice/experiences would be appreciated.


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## circle110

We considered building on our property in Guanajuato 2 years ago. We talked to an architect who wanted the whole project cost paid to him up front. I refused and insisted on paying in specific stages as the project progressed and he got angry and stormed off. We later found out that he was in bad financial shape and wanted to use out money to solve his problems and then would have had nothing left to actually build our house. 

Some friends of ours told us about a young Mexican couple that paid a different architect up front for their house and the architect used the money to finish his own personal house and had no money left to build the clients' house. Five years later they are still in court with the guy and haven't received one peso nor do they have even a foundation for their house.

Building in Mexico is divided up into 3 basic parts - cimentaciones (foundation/footings), obra negra (structural work) and acabados (finishings). I wanted to pay for the first two stages as half up front and the other half on completion. I wanted to break the acabados into several sub-stages since the acabados usually cost as much as the other two stages combined. This architect didn't like that idea but I'm sure that a legitimate one would be just fine with that method. I know a Puerto Rican couple that built a house here working with their builder in a stage by stage way and it turned out very well for them.

I guess it comes down to trust. Maybe things are different in Tulum, I don't know. Have you spoken to other satisfied customers of this builder and asked them how they handled payment?


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## Greenlady

Thanks for your reply and for your advice. My biggest concern is that the lawyer is acting for us and for the architect. Doesn't seem right. Also, that there doesn't seem to be a company bank account, only personal ones.

All they are asking up front is 30% so they can purchase materials at the current price. I will ask to speak to the owner of the almost completed home they showed us.


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## GARYJ65

circle110 said:


> We considered building on our property in Guanajuato 2 years ago. We talked to an architect who wanted the whole project cost paid to him up front. I refused and insisted on paying in specific stages as the project progressed and he got angry and stormed off. We later found out that he was in bad financial shape and wanted to use out money to solve his problems and then would have had nothing left to actually build our house.
> 
> Some friends of ours told us about a young Mexican couple that paid a different architect up front for their house and the architect used the money to finish his own personal house and had no money left to build the clients' house. Five years later they are still in court with the guy and haven't received one peso nor do they have even a foundation for their house.
> 
> Building in Mexico is divided up into 3 basic parts - cimentaciones (foundation/footings), obra negra (structural work) and acabados (finishings). I wanted to pay for the first two stages as half up front and the other half on completion. I wanted to break the acabados into several sub-stages since the acabados usually cost as much as the other two stages combined. This architect didn't like that idea but I'm sure that a legitimate one would be just fine with that method. I know a Puerto Rican couple that built a house here working with their builder in a stage by stage way and it turned out very well for them.
> 
> I guess it comes down to trust. Maybe things are different in Tulum, I don't know. Have you spoken to other satisfied customers of this builder and asked them how they handled payment?


I was about to suggest that! One of the best ways is to ask for recommendations and talk to previous customers


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## circle110

I would lose the lawyer and work directly with the builder/architect - assuming you get good references for them. 

A lawyer serves no function in this process. In real estate the only person with any power is a notario. A regular, non-notario lawyer is just hanging around like a remora does to a shark, hoping to pick up some financial scraps. At least the remora cleans off the shark's skin - a "real estate lawyer" in Mexico can't even claim that much. 

An excellent notario, on the other hand, is well worth what he charges.


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## GARYJ65

Greenlady said:


> Thanks for your reply and for your advice. My biggest concern is that the lawyer is acting for us and for the architect. Doesn't seem right. Also, that there doesn't seem to be a company bank account, only personal ones.
> 
> All they are asking up front is 30% so they can purchase materials at the current price. I will ask to speak to the owner of the almost completed home they showed us.


My advice would be: 
Sign a very good contract
Talk to their customers, the almost completed house ones but better yet some others with finished houses


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## GARYJ65

Greenlady said:


> Thanks for your reply and for your advice. My biggest concern is that the lawyer is acting for us and for the architect. Doesn't seem right. Also, that there doesn't seem to be a company bank account, only personal ones.
> 
> All they are asking up front is 30% so they can purchase materials at the current price. I will ask to speak to the owner of the almost completed home they showed us.


We all have different ways to manage the construction deals, 30% sounds about right, then again, if they are architects or contractors, all they have to do is to let their suppliers know about the new project and make sure that the price remains low for at least 3 months


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## GARYJ65

Greenlady said:


> Thanks for your reply and for your advice. My biggest concern is that the lawyer is acting for us and for the architect. Doesn't seem right. Also, that there doesn't seem to be a company bank account, only personal ones.
> 
> All they are asking up front is 30% so they can purchase materials at the current price. I will ask to speak to the owner of the almost completed home they showed us.


What is the lawyer doing for you?


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## mickisue1

May I ask: is there any way that you or your spouse can get down there and talk to people in person? Homeowners, past clients, etc?

The last thing you want to do is be trying to figure out what's going on with your life savings from a distance of several thousand miles.


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## tepetapan

I have to agree with everyone who wrote saying you do not need the lawyer. he is just an added expense and serves no purpose after the contract is signed. In fact I would find a lawyer who is not associated with the architect / builder. There are red flags showing there.
In fact, the thought of having someone 2000 miles away building a house, with 30% front money seems like a very bad idea. I would rent an apartment and be there full time before doing any building. I would set up an account with one of the big building supply stores, pay for materials and labor weekly. Keep an eye on materials daily, they will be taking your bags of cement to work other jobs, along with the nails, rebar, wiring etc. if no one is there watching. It is an old trick used all over the world. 
If you can not get away to watch over the project then why are you in a hurry to build?


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## citlali

I bought a ruin in Chiapas, gutted the whole place and redid it totally. I first got an engineer and an architect and paid extra money to have everything in writing, I think I paid 20 000 pesos for the estimate. It was 32 pages long had photos of what I wanted and had all the projected costs .It was the best thing I ever did and was our bible. We spend 2 or 3 months going over everything to the most minute details than I did some cut and changes , then we agreed on each phase of the building, how much down for the material as I had all the costs, how much for labor and when it would be paid. All actual cost was minus out of the estimate and extra expenses added. We did not get surprises.
The remodelled lasted 9 months and we sat down every a month to review expenses and progress. It all went very smoothly and we are still friends with the builder and architect.

I rented a place near the site and was on the site every night and was on the site with the builder and or the maestro reviewing what had been done and what was going to be done every week.

If I had to redo it again I would do it exactly the same way. Anyone who wants you to send money and not get any guideline or feed back from you should be immediately dismissed. 

If you do not speak Spanish you are better off with a translater than a lawyer.


Take charge of the project and use your comon sense, know what is important for you and be clear on what you want. DO not let the architect tell you what you want or take over but listen to his objections and recommendations and decide for yourself.


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## circle110

Citali did it right! Kudos.

I know that there are a couple of other posters on this forum that had good experiences with building, maybe they'll chime in too.


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## GARYJ65

circle110 said:


> Citali did it right! Kudos.
> 
> I know that there are a couple of other posters on this forum that had good experiences with building, maybe they'll chime in too.


In general, building In Mexico may be a pain in the neck, either for mexicans or foreigners.
But it could also be a nice and great experience as well.
For starters I do recommend to ask for references, talk to previous customers, ask to see the houses, buildings, whatever the builder has done.
And then, spend some time talking and reviewing the terms of the contract.
And DO sign a contract.
For the expats that are not very fluent with spanish: find an english speaking builder or get a spanish speaking person to help with the language. Misunderstandings can be disastrous


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## Greenlady

I appreciate all the personal stories and advice. Thank you so much. I've just heard from the people who will be our neighbours and they have nothing but nice things to say about their experience. It could be we lucked out but I will take heed of what all of you have said and take steps to ensure this process goes well.


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## Isla Verde

Greenlady said:


> I appreciate all the personal stories and advice. Thank you so much. I've just heard from the people who will be our neighbours and they have nothing but nice things to say about their experience. It could be we lucked out but I will take heed of what all of you have said and take steps to ensure this process goes well.


Were your neighbors-to-be in Tulum while their house was being built? If they were, that could explain why things went so well for them.


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## GARYJ65

Isla Verde said:


> Were your neighbors-to-be in Tulum while their house was being built? If they were, that could explain why things went so well for them.


That could be one explaination, but then again, the owners can be cheated even if they go to the construction site every day.
My suggestion: ask for references and talk to as many customers as possible, and go see finished jobs


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## Greenlady

Isla Verde said:


> Were your neighbors-to-be in Tulum while their house was being built? If they were, that could explain why things went so well for them.


No, they weren't. We observed firsthand this builder and his workers. Here's hoping this is one of those happy experiences!


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## tulum

Hi we live in Alberta too. We bought land in Tulum, have a builder and are about 1/2 done building our home. It will take about 1 year with all the permits and stuff. You absolutely need a lawyer and don't let anyone you don't. I hope you will have a trust with your land. We have the lawyer with the development and had a very easy process. There are a lot of canadians building but then from all over the USA also. We signed a very detailed contract and we go every month to see how things are progressing. Need to keep on top of it. It is draws of money so much per month and yes we paid 30% upfront to get going. So far has been steady progress and honest people. They are building a lot of homes now and from over 1 million dollar homes to our modest home. We went on tours, talked with people who are using our builder and did lots of research. You need to protect yourself. If you need to call us send me a PM...it is so darn exciting and so worth it.


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## sparks

I would never have a house built in Mexico without being there or with a very good friend checking almost daily.

What does it take to be "a lawyer" in Mexico


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## Isla Verde

sparks said:


> I would never have a house built in Mexico without being there or with a very good friend checking almost daily.
> 
> What does it take to be "a lawyer" in Mexico


You go to university, study law for five years, and graduate with a law degree. Nothing that complicated or unusual. Lawyers are addressed with the title of "licenciado (a)". I don't understand the snarkiness of your comment, sparks.


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## tulum

They send us photos weekly and we communicate almost daily emails and they speak english. We have an english speaking lawyer who resides in Merida and is really ontop of things. Trained in the USA...It has been a wonderful experience but we really keep ontop of things and being retiree
and my hubby still working in Canada we don't have the privilege of living there. Will only be there for 6 months. But coming monthly has really paid off. Out next door neighbour is building and he checks in for us too.
The development has strick off grid requirements. So they have a project mananger that checks into things weekly also. So we are covered in many ways. I wouldnt do it any other way as we cant live there yet.


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## sparks

>>>> I don't understand the snarkiness of your comment, sparks

Only that I've heard tell you can call yourself anything in Mexico. A lawyer without a business account brought that to mind


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## mickisue1

GARYJ65 said:


> That could be one explaination, but then again, the owners can be cheated even if they go to the construction site every day.
> My suggestion: ask for references and talk to as many customers as possible, and go see finished jobs


Building a house isn't rocket science. If you are even a little concerned that the builder you are working with is dishonest, don't let him/her build your house. 

I had an advantage, because my dad was in the business, so I absorbed a lot of knowledge from hanging around him as a little girl, when he drew plans in his basement office. But really, it's following best practices, if laws don't dictate such things as load distribution, etc, and understanding basic geometry.

My strong belief is that if you cannot be there, or have a trusted friend be there during the process, don't start the process. It may be more convenient to move from your current home into a completed one, but you are better off keeping your belongings in a trailer and living in temporary quarters while the home is being built, so that you can catch errors or outright cheating before it's literally built right into your home.

An example from the US. Our home has some odd angles in the hallways. Because of that, the closet in the laundry room is an irregular pentagon. The builder assumed we'd want it to be rectangular, so squared off the back of the closet. 

But we wanted the extra room for storing mops, etc. Had we not caught it, at the framing stage, it would have been a done deal, and we'd have lost 10 precious square feet of room in that closet. 

Show up daily, know what the plans look like and be sure that the home is being built to them.


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## tulum

This is interesting and good conversation about building in a foreign country. My husband is a technical illustrator. So we designed our house in mexico with the help of Carlos our mexican architect. It is very different building there as we are using mayan builders with PERMACULTURA. Meaning using the land and local products. It is a work of art. We built our home in Canada with logs and made changes along the way. We know cost and what takes to build plus design and structure. So far ahead in the game. Yes there has been many changes as the land dictated this. But just looking at photos we know if its right. We have a strick budget and no extras. We refine the contract over and over. Perhaps adding more tiles as we just did. Taking away concrete in certain areas and adding a patio.
But we have good people who we trust and we have come to add them as great friends and their family. 
We added a utility room on the 2nd level last time as it would have been wasted space. So yes we are still at the planning stages and changed a walk in closet on the 2nd level into an indoor outdoor kitchen with a sliding window.
it is so cool. So yes if you can be there but if you like the design with no changes just keep a strick budget and only give them draws of small amounts per month then they dont leave town ...Jajaja


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## Isla Verde

sparks said:


> >>>> I don't understand the snarkiness of your comment, sparks
> 
> Only that I've heard tell you can call yourself anything in Mexico. A lawyer without a business account brought that to mind


I think that kind of thing can happen anywhere. When hiring a lawyer or other professional, check their credentials and, when possible, go with someone recommended by trustworthy friends.


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## GARYJ65

Isla Verde said:


> I think that kind of thing can happen anywhere. When hiring a lawyer or other professional, check their credentials and, when possible, go with someone recommended by trustworthy friends.


I agree, It happens anywhere!


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## circle110

All the lawyers I know studied 4 years, not 5. You may need 5 if you party a lot. There is no required post graduate law degree like in the US. There is no bar exam to prove you actually learned anything. A law degree in Mexico is basically equivalent to pre-law in the US and an abogado is more like a paralegal than an actual lawyer in the US (I'm not sure about Canada but I suspect it is very similar to the US).

To become a "licenciado en derecho" you just sit through 8 semesters of classes and if you don't fail them, you're good to go. Many of my friends that have law degrees confessed to doing just that. A couple of them just did it to make Mom and Dad happy and chose law because it is easy and a "basket weaving" type of degree. 

Law is frequently studied as a precursor to another non-law graduate degree and not for the purpose of becoming an abogado. The training in law for a "licenciado" is extremely general and basic.

I stand by my previous post that you DO NOT need a lawyer to buy real estate in Mexico. A lawyer needs you much worse than you need him/her.

You absolutely DO need a good notario. They can and will do everything a lawyer would pretend to do, except they have the legal authority to actually do it. A lawyer will only take your paperwork before a notario and charge you for what you can do yourself.


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## Isla Verde

circle110 said:


> I stand by my previous post that you DO NOT need a lawyer to buy real estate in Mexico. A lawyer needs you much worse than you need him/her.
> 
> You absolutely DO need a good notario. They can and will do everything a lawyer would pretend to do, except they have the legal authority to actually do it. A lawyer will only take your paperwork before a notario and charge you for what you can do yourself.


Aren't notarios a specialized kind of lawyer?


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## tulum

Our lawyer took our documents to a Notario and I thought they both did different jobs ? It was part of the cost of our trust and registering it the first time. He took it to her house and then it was registered through Bank of Nova Scotia. It took many months but we have the copy of our trust.


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## GARYJ65

Isla Verde said:


> Aren't notarios a specialized kind of lawyer?


Of course they are!


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## GARYJ65

circle110 said:


> All the lawyers I know studied 4 years, not 5. You may need 5 if you party a lot. There is no required post graduate law degree like in the US. There is no bar exam to prove you actually learned anything. A law degree in Mexico is basically equivalent to pre-law in the US and an abogado is more like a paralegal than an actual lawyer in the US (I'm not sure about Canada but I suspect it is very similar to the US).
> 
> To become a "licenciado en derecho" you just sit through 8 semesters of classes and if you don't fail them, you're good to go. Many of my friends that have law degrees confessed to doing just that. A couple of them just did it to make Mom and Dad happy and chose law because it is easy and a "basket weaving" type of degree.
> 
> Law is frequently studied as a precursor to another non-law graduate degree and not for the purpose of becoming an abogado. The training in law for a "licenciado" is extremely general and basic.
> 
> I stand by my previous post that you DO NOT need a lawyer to buy real estate in Mexico. A lawyer needs you much worse than you need him/her.
> 
> You absolutely DO need a good notario. They can and will do everything a lawyer would pretend to do, except they have the legal authority to actually do it. A lawyer will only take your paperwork before a notario and charge you for what you can do yourself.


Sometimes, like in this case, expats talk down about things in Mexico, professions, services, etc. I wish someday they would quit doing so or go back to where they came from and things are perfect


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## mickisue1

A notario is a specialized kind of lawyer, true. But if you are doing a real estate transaction, don't you want an attorney who only works with real estate?

I'd rather have a notario dealing with my real estate issues, just as I'd rather have an ophthalmologist than a family practice doc doing surgery on my eyes.

And, frankly, most of the attorneys I know would go to a real estate attorney rather than trying to handle something as esoteric as buying land and building on it in a foreign country themselves.


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## tulum

mickisue1 said:


> A notario is a specialized kind of lawyer, true. But if you are doing a real estate transaction, don't you want an attorney who only works with real estate?
> 
> I'd rather have a notario dealing with my real estate issues, just as I'd rather have an ophthalmologist than a family practice doc doing surgery on my eyes.
> 
> And, frankly, most of the attorneys I know would go to a real estate attorney rather than trying to handle something as esoteric as buying land and building on it in a foreign country themselves.


Yes we have a real estate lawyer in Tulum and he is great. Well spoken young man and anytime we have questions he answers them with no cost!!


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## GARYJ65

tulum said:


> Yes we have a real estate lawyer in Tulum and he is great. Well spoken young man and anytime we have questions he answers them with no cost!!


I have a question: what is a real estate lawyer?
I'm in the real estate business and do not know that term


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## TundraGreen

tulum said:


> Yes we have a real estate lawyer in Tulum and he is great. Well spoken young man and anytime we have questions he answers them with no cost!!


Are people using the term "real estate lawyer" and "notario publico" as synonyms. A Notario Publico is a lawyer licensed to handle real estate transactions. One is required to transfer property in Mexico. The one I worked with had a staff of two or three people who actually did the work. The gentleman with the Notario Publico license was actually quite elderly and sat in the office reading a book occasionally. His staff were extremely competent.


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## tulum

GARYJ65 said:


> I have a question: what is a real estate lawyer?
> I'm in the real estate business and do not know that term


I think this lawyer we have just deals with closing real estate deals with large new developements in the Tulum area. I know he works with Bahia and Los Arboles. I imagine he does a lot of different kind
of stuff. 

The Notario was a lady who worked out of her home and our lawyer took the documents to her to sign.


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## TundraGreen

tulum said:


> I think this lawyer we have just deals with closing real estate deals with large new developements in the Tulum area. I know he works with Bahia and Los Arboles. I imagine he does a lot of different kind
> of stuff.
> 
> The Notario was a lady who worked out of her home and our lawyer took the documents to her to sign.


Just for clarity, in my case, the Notario investigated the ownership of the property, prepared the Escritura (title), and filed it with the government after it had been signed by all parties. The Notario acts as a go-between for the buyer and seller and is selected by the buyer. There is an older thread (linked in the FAQ) that discusses the process in detail.


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## circle110

GARYJ65 said:


> Sometimes, like in this case, expats talk down about things in Mexico, professions, services, etc. I wish someday they would quit doing so or go back to where they came from and things are perfect


I don't think that that was called for, GaryJ65. I normally defend Mexico in this forum.

What did I say that isn't true? 

You yourself just posted that you have never heard of a real estate lawyer - and you work in real estate. Might that not be because a "real estate lawyer" isn't necessary? 

A lawyer in Mexico is not certified outside of earning a basic licenciatura. Now if one goes the route of taking the additional training, does the internship period and passes the certification exams to become a notario (a profession that is licensed and regulated), that is a different story.

People coming from the US have a different idea of what a lawyer is and I was simply making the point that an abogado in Mexico is not the same as a lawyer in the US. 

If tulum is happy with their lawyer, that is fine. It is kind of like the facilitators that help people with their visas at INM. They aren't necessary, but if they make you feel more comfortable with the process and you are OK with what they charge, then it is all good.

However, it is simply not true that a lawyer is necessary for a real estate transaction.


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## TundraGreen

circle110 said:


> …You yourself just posted that you have never heard of a real estate lawyer - and you work in real estate. Might that not be because a "real estate lawyer" isn't necessary?
> …


It might also be because "real estate lawyer" is an English phrase, and we live in a Spanish speaking country.


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## mickisue1

I should have clarified, as well.

In the US, we don't have attorneys who have special licenses for different areas of specializations, as a notario in MX. We do, however, have attorneys who specialize in one area of law. Real estate is one. Family law is one. Mergers and acquisitions is another.

Because there is special licensing, and additional education, required for becoming a notario, they are more the equivalent of a board certified surgeon doing surgery, VS a family practice doc doing it. In theory, just being a doctor teaches you to perform any function of any doctor. But most people want a specialist for big stuff.

In the realm of spending money, buying and building a house, for most people, is the biggest of the big stuff.


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## TundraGreen

mickisue1 said:


> …But most people want a specialist for big stuff.…


It is more than a "want". A Notario Publico is required for real estate transactions. As someone noted earlier, if you involve an ordinary abogado, they will take your paperwork to a Notario Publico to execute actual escritorio.


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