# Air conditioning gas leak



## DunWorkin (Sep 2, 2010)

At last, our aircon is working again :clap2: :clap2:

It has been out of action for the past month during the recent hot weather. I thought we were all going to melt.

The bad news is the engineer says we probably have a leak in the system. He has re-gassed it (cost €160) and hopes it will last until the end of August. He says it is a major job trying to trace a leak.

This is a new system we had installed in 2005. We have had nothing but trouble with it.

Has anyone experienced a problem like this? What do you suggest we do? Do we keep spending €160 to re-gas it or do we start again and install a new system?

Learning from our bad experiences I would advise anyone thinking of installing air conditioning to install all individual units then if one goes wrong at least you are not completely without any cooling.


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## sgge888 (Jul 18, 2011)

Any half decent engineer should be able to narrow down a leak reasonably quickly on any system no matter how large. If its a good VRV/VRF system Daikin/Mitsubushi etc would probably be worth keeping. If its a multisplit all you could do to save money straight away is to check each circuit and disconnect leaking one so the rest run fine without leaking then find problem as affordable.
I would suggest finding somone who doesnt want to keep charging you 160 euros even 2 months which does sound like they are looking at you as easy money....
Gary


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## DunWorkin (Sep 2, 2010)

sgge888 said:


> Any half decent engineer should be able to narrow down a leak reasonably quickly on any system no matter how large. If its a good VRV/VRF system Daikin/Mitsubushi etc would probably be worth keeping. If its a multisplit all you could do to save money straight away is to check each circuit and disconnect leaking one so the rest run fine without leaking then find problem as affordable.
> I would suggest finding somone who doesnt want to keep charging you 160 euros even 2 months which does sound like they are looking at you as easy money....
> Gary


Thanks for replying to my thread.

I am not sure I understand all that you have said. The system is a Panasonic inverter - 4 internal units, 1 external. I do not know what 'multisplit' means.

We have had several companies looking at our system over the last 12 months. This latest company was recommended to us by Panasonic. They say that the previous companies have caused more problems than solved. At least this company has got our system working which is more than any of the others have achieved.

We have spent so much money on this that we do not know where to go from here. 

At least, for now, we have aircon.


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## sgge888 (Jul 18, 2011)

Hi,
Sorry didnt mean to sound too technical.

if you have a Panasonic inverter and the configeration of units you have mentioned then i assume that you have 1 outdoor unit and each one of the four indoor units is connected via 2 pipes, making 8 pipes in all coming from condensor (outdoor unit). If this is the case each pipe will have its own connection to the unit via a mechanical flared joint secured with a brass nut. The pipes are paired together Liquid (smaller pipe) and Suction (larger pipe) going to each individual unit. This is more commonly known a a multisplit type a/c unit.

If you do not have the above then it will be two larger pipes from the outdoor unit and they will in turn branch off by each unit reducing in size at the branch point to each indoor unit. 

Either way it is quite simple to at least narrow down a leak however the first example above would be easier and quicker to isolate any problem.

Let me know and i would be happy to run you through it..

Regards
Gary


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## gus-lopez (Jan 4, 2010)

Did they install the complete system or was the pipework 'pre-installed' ? that can be a common source of problems. 
As sgge888 has said , it shouldn't be difficult to find the leak for someone who knows what they are doing & it doesn't sound as if you've had anyone like that yet !
Apart from the old fashioned method of soapy water, there are 3 main methods of leak detection. The three most commonly used are a electronic refrigerant leak detector, ultraviolet dye leak detection kit, and ultrasonic leak detector units.

Any refrigeration engineer should have an electronic leak detector, or access to one. 
Eu law states that you have to find & rectify the leak before you can refill a system.


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## DunWorkin (Sep 2, 2010)

Thank you both for your comments. Here is the story. Sorry it is going to be quite a long post.

When we bought the house in 2003 it had air conditioning already installed (new house). It was called Kelon. The same system was in all the 67 houses.

We did not like this system. We kept getting water running down the walls from the indoor units and it was never very cold. For 2 years we had people trying to fix it without success.

In 2005, a company (English) said we would be better having a new system installed. That Panasonic was a better make and would be cheaper to run. They seemed to know what they were talking about. Turned up when they said they would etc. 

They installed the new system (4 inside units with 1 outside unit) for just under €5000. They used the existing pipes, wiring etc.

We started having problems that first summer. The aircon would run for a while then just close down. The installing company came back a couple of times without success. Eventually this company disappeared. 

We had several local companies in to try and fix the problem (some English, some Spanish). We had the system completely rewired. That did not help. We had new parts (including 2 new ‘mother boards’). We spent the whole of last summer without any aircon. By this point we had spent about €2000 trying to get it repaired.

We eventually managed to contact Panasonic (not an easy thing to do). They gave us the name of their agents in Alicante. This company came in March this year and got the system up and running (cost another €1000). They gave us a 1 year guarantee on the parts they had replaced. They re-gassed the system. They also said that the people who had worked on it before had not known what they were doing and had caused some of the problems we were having.

When the warm weather started in June, we switched on the aircon. It was not very cold at all. After a couple of days it stopped working again. We got the Alicante company back in – thinking we would not have to pay. They said that the system needed re-gassing and that was not covered by the guarantee. This cost us €160.

They said that the only reason it needed the gas could be that there is a leak. Of course, because the pipes were installed when the house was built they are in the walls.

We are aware that this is probably going to happen again. We are just hoping it will at least get us through this summer’s high temperatures.

gus-lopez, I was interested to read your comment :
“Eu law states that you have to find & rectify the leak before you can refill a system”

This means what they have just done is illegal.

You can imagine after all of this we are not very happy about air conditioning systems and the people installing and maintaining them here in Spain.


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## gus-lopez (Jan 4, 2010)

DunWorkin said:


> Thank you both for your comments. Here is the story. Sorry it is going to be quite a long post.
> 
> When we bought the house in 2003 it had air conditioning already installed (new house). It was called Kelon. The same system was in all the 67 houses.
> 
> ...



Yes , under the 2006 F-gas EU regulations a leak has to be found & rectified before re-gassing. If you recharge a system that you know to have a leak this would be constituted as " deliberate venting of refrigerant to atmosphere " , which is illegal under the regulations.

P.s. I'd guess that the problem could be the original pipework in the wall. In the UK I'd never use pipework installed by someone that I didn't know & here in Spain I'd never use pipework pre- installed by anyone ! I've seen some horrors here. Ends of pipes not sealed whilst building s still going on. Joints in the middle . They're ok if you are 100% sure , but personally I'd never join a pipe that couldn't be accessed easily after installation. drain pipes in walls not jointed properly.
I've also seen a multi-split put in & 2 of the 6 units didn't work & the installer blamed the pipework installer ( 2 different companies ! ) neither would rectify the problem as they said itwas the others fault !


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