# Going to UK from Rome



## panama rick

Hi everyone. I'm looking for some advice. My wife and I are staying in Anzio while she waits for her citizenship paperwork to be completed. Unfortunately that's not going to happen within our 90 day tourist period. So we're heading to the UK to wait it out. Here's my problem. We have a dog and are trying to find the most direct(non stop) and stress free route. First option is Rome to anywhere in the UK. Problem; no low cost carrier accepts pets, except Monarch but they only go to Luton and Luton doesn't have proper customs facilities. Alitalia is not allowed to carry pets to the UK. That leaves British Airways who to date has failed to reply to my queries. Option two, train. A minimum of two changes. Not desirable with four suitcases and a dog carrier. Third, drive. This is starting to look like the best option, but the costliest as I would drive to Calais in a LHD car, then turn it in for a RHD.
I know there's a wealth of knowledge out there. Any suggestions? Have I missed something? Thanks in advance.


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## Italia-Mx

First off, this is exactly what the San Francisco consulate advised my companion: That he would not be allowed to remain in Italy with me if his citizenship case was not processed during the three months of his tourist visa. So we waited in Seattle for the San Francisco consulate to process his case and then we both came back to Italy with Italian passports.

Taveling with pets can still be a problem. I would say driving is your best option but no matter how you get there, your dog is still going to be put in quaranteen in the UK. No way around that.

In 2000, I sold my house in Austin, Texas because I was moving to Mexico. I had two cats to take with me and could not find any airline to fly cats in June if the temperature on the ground in Texas was above a certain degree. My only option was to rent a car and drive to San Antonio, TX where I could pick up a low budget Mexican airline that would fly my cats. I also had to stay overnight in a hotel in San Antonio to pick up the early morning flight. 18 months later when I left Mexico because my Italian passport had been approved and I was moving to Italy, I had even more trouble getting my cats out of Mexico but no problems at all when we landed in Rome. I would never want to have to take any pets to the UK without researching way in advance what is required. Not to be Debbie Downer but your wife should have let her consulate process her Italian citizenship paperwork before you came to Europe.


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## panama rick

Thanks for the reply. First, so there's no misinformation. The UK doesn't quarantine(2012) as long as you follow their requirements, ie pet passport, rabies, tapeworm, microchip etc. So that's not a concern. Additionally we were aware our paperwork would not be completed during the first 90 days, as our attorney advised us of that. So we factored in the UK move that would allow us to leave the EU for 90 days or more then return. You're correct that driving is simpler but the cost is high ($2000) because of drop off charges for a rental car.


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## Italia-Mx

I think I do remember hearing about changes to the UK quaranteen requirement. Did your lawyer give you an estimate as to when your paperwork will be completed? Did he mention at all that the Interior Ministry is bogged down with asylum applications mostly from sub-Saharan Africans who have no right to asylum? Austria is now refusing to take any of these people from Italy as long as Italy allows uncontrolled and illegal immigration. But people like yourself who entered legally on a US passport and who have money to spend must leave. Italian elections can't come soon enough (2018).


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## accbgb

Rick,

"Unfortunately that's not going to happen within our 90 day tourist period."

I don't think that should matter. So long as she has submitted her claim to citizenship and that claim has been accepted for review, she should be able to remain in Italy until a decision has been reached.

Please return to the place where her claim was submitted and inquire on this point.


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## Italia-Mx

It's the responsibility of anyone who has entered Italy with a US visa waiver to leave when the visa expires -- in this case, 90 days. It perhaps would have been better if you had floated over from Africa on a dinghy as that would have given you indefinite time to spend in Italy loitering and begging.


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## accbgb

Italia-Mx said:


> It's the responsibility of anyone who has entered Italy with a US visa waiver to leave when the visa expires -- in this case, 90 days. It perhaps would have been better if you had floated over from Africa on a dinghy as that would have given you indefinite time to spend in Italy loitering and begging.


Oh dear, here we go again.

Rick - Just ask. I guarantee you that if your wife has a receipt for her citizenship application, she will be allowed to remain in Italy until her application is approved or denied.

You, on the other hand, I am not so sure about.


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## accbgb

PS: I am referring to an application that was submitted directly in Italy, not at a consulate outside Italy.


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## Italia-Mx

Neither of them would be allowed to remain in Italy past 90 days because neither has a visa. He has already stated that the Italian attorney advised him that he cannot stay past the 90 days. That's what visas are for. If you have business in Italy and must stay past 90 days, you get a visa from your consulate first.


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## panama rick

Her application was approved by the Italian courts on Nov 9 2016. At that point there is a 6 month public notification period where any one can comment on this action. After 6 months if no one can show cause why she shouldn't be given citizenship her paperwork goes to her grandmother's commune for filing. Then she has to go back to the US to get her passport. Until such time we have no status other than "tourist". 
But unfortunately that doesn't help me get my dog to the UK.


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## Italia-Mx

They like to make the 1948 cases sound easy on some of the websites where the "experts" who don't live in Italy and don't have a clue are very active. Then when you get here you find out that in addition to the expense it's not a piece of cake. 

Also, I would not count on the grand-mother's commune taking the direction from the court immediately as opposed to on it's own time. Some of these communes have officials making decisions who have been doing things their own way for years. The commune official in my companion's town in Calabria is 90 years old and still goes to work every day and what he says GOES. It might be a good idea before you leave Italy to go to your commune and introduce yourselves and invite them for a coffee.


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## Italia-Mx

accbgb said:


> Oh dear, here we go again.
> 
> Rick - Just ask. I guarantee you that if your wife has a receipt for her citizenship application, she will be allowed to remain in Italy until her application is approved or denied.
> 
> You, on the other hand, I am not so sure about.


The above is a good example of some of the nonsense that gets spewed on Italian citizenship websites by non-resident "experts". In this case, the poster actually has the gall to say, "I guarantee you" when nothing could be further from the truth.


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## NickZ

You may not want to do this but are any of your neighbors willing to look after the dog?

If not an option one of you could fly to London and drop most of the luggage. Fly back and take the train. 

The drive won't be easier then the train. 

Train to Milan or Turin. High speed train to Paris. Train to London. 

OTOH with the drive you'll still be stopping along the way. Dragging your cases and dog carrier to the hotel.


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## Italia-Mx

NickZ gives excellent advice - with options. And yes, I drove and had to drag cat carriers and luggage into hotel. Cats didn't like the program. Went under hotel furniture, had to call security to retrieve them so we could make the flight. A nightmare.


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## accbgb

Italia-Mx said:


> The above is a good example of some of the nonsense that gets spewed on Italian citizenship websites by non-resident "experts". In this case, the poster actually has the gall to say, "I guarantee you" when nothing could be further from the truth.


In his original post, Rick did not indicate this was a "1948 rule" case. I will defer to her attorney in this situation.

If it was a simple jus sanguinis case, then I insist that she would be allowed to remain once given a receipt for her properly submitted application.


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## panama rick

Sorry folks I will clarify. She challenged the "1948" and won. She did this because we couldn't her grandparents marriage certificate.


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## Italia-Mx

accbgb said:


> In his original post, Rick did not indicate this was a "1948 rule" case. I will defer to her attorney in this situation.
> 
> If it was a simple jus sanguinis case, then I insist that she would be allowed to remain once given a receipt for her properly submitted application.


It doesn't matter what kind of case it is, if you go to Italy without a visa and your US passport visa waiver expires, your status is "tourist" and you must leave. My companion had a regular jures sanguines case and was told exactly the same by consulate in San Francisco so he waited for the consulate to recognize him before coming to Italy. WHEN IS THE MIS-INFORMATION GOING TO STOP? Just wondering?


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## Italia-Mx

panama rick said:


> Sorry folks I will clarify. She challenged the "1948" and won. She did this because we couldn't her grandparents marriage certificate.


Panama Rick, are you saying that a regular jures sanguinis case would have been denied because your wife couldn't find her grand-parents marriage certificate? If so, thanks for posting this. There is another case on another forum where the OP is receiving mis-information that the grand-parents marriage certificate, which cannot be found, is not needed, despite the fact that the OP has already been denied by the consulate.


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## GeordieBorn

Sounds like driving is the best option, but why change cars? More to the point why all the way to the UK?


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## panama rick

The short answer is yes. But that seems to be why the "1948" rule is being successfully challenged on a regular basis. The courts are now realizing that the matriarchal side has been discriminated against for decades. Our attorney has been very successful in winning these cases.


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## panama rick

GeordieBorn, very simple. The UK's tourist rules are different (thank goodness) from the rest of the EU. A person can stay for 6 months as a tourist. So we'll go there until the paperwork process is completed. If it hasn't been completed during that time we'll come back to Italy, as we would have been out over 90 days.


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## GeordieBorn

Obviously I have no reason to know such being a UK citizen. But I would have though that unless there was another reason for going to the UK, that any other country nearby e.g. Germany, France or even Malta would be easier, even if possibly long term a little more disrupting? Driving on the other side of the road should be enough of a "put off" I would have thought!


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## panama rick

All the EU countries adhere to the same tourist rules. Ninety days in; 90 days out. That means out of the EU, not just the country.


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## NickZ

It's not the EU. It's the Schengen zone. The UK and Ireland are two main countries outside the zone.

OTOH the Swiss and Norwegian are in the zone.

You could take a ferry to North Africa. Other then that I think some of the Eastern European countries are still out. Croatia IIRC is fully in this year. But Serbia would be out.


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## panama rick

NickZ, you are correct that it the Schengen area. Croatia was an option until it joined the EU. Quite honestly the other countries we could have gone to don't hold much appeal. I'll figure something out. Thanks


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## GeordieBorn

Ah I see it's a Schengen area rule, not just Italy you have to get out of. Driving sounds your best bet...


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## panama rick

You're right as far as driving, except the drop off fees are insane. $1000-$1500.


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## Crawford

If you are still going to the UK with a dog in tow, be ready for some questions as to your intentions for remaining in the UK.

No "tourist" I know arrives with a dog.


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## Italia-Mx

I must thoroughly agree with you on the above, Crawford. The dog needs a pet passport and I don't think the dog would qualify for a pet passport if he's just a tourist.


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## panama rick

Thanks for the info. In all the research I've done in the past 3 years I've not run across any regulation regarding tourists and pets. As far as explaining the situation to UK officials it's pretty straight forward. We're awaiting my wife's citizenship papers for Italy and must leave the Schengen region for 90 days. I'm currently in the process of getting my dog's Panama passport converted to an Italian (EU) one. I'll let you know what happens.


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## Bevdeforges

Just to add a bit of perspective here - the French seem to travel EVERYWHERE with their dogs. And yes, they do need a pet passport. If you've got a regular vet wherever you are, it should be fairly easy and cheap to get one. To get a pet passport for a "tourist" dog may involve a bit more (digging out vaccination records, etc.).
Cheers,
Bev


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## panama rick

Bevdeforges, thanks for your input. I appreciate everyone's comments. Actually Crawford's reply spurred me to look deeper into the UK requirements and I did discover something I didn't know. A dogs most recent rabies vaccination must have been done by an EU certified vet or additional health certificate have to be issued. So thanks Crawford. 
Once I get to the UK I'll post a thread on the outcome.


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