# Titre de Séjour Renewal - Experience with online system



## jweihl

I am told that online titre de séjour renewals are being rolled out département by département. In any case, my wife and I, who arrived on VLS-TS visa in September, just renewed ours online (we are in the Gard 30) and it was much easier than we were expecting.

We just signed into Étrangers en France which is the same website that we used to validate our visas upon arrival. Used our login credentials and identification number we got during the visa validation. You can switch to english if you like!

From the main screen you select the "apply for or renew residency permit".

The process is much like the ANTS system for driving license exchange. You're asked a series of questions and to attest to a number of things. Nothing too unexpected, except the "I attest that I'm not living in France in a state of polygamy".

Interestingly the system had my wife's "nom de naissance" incorrect and showed the name that her visa was issued under, her married name. This also happened to our friend who was in the same situation. There is a space you can leave comments for the reviewer. We just noted the correct nom de naissance and noted her nom de usage. I got to think they're used to seeing this.

Handily, the system will tell you the amount of resources you need to demonstrate in your finances so no more guesswork about "is this enough".

After you answer the questions, you upload your supporting documents. As I recall, we supplied:

1. Passport data pages.
2. Titre de séjour (in our case a copy of our visa and the validation letter)
3. Proof of residence (attestation d'abonnement from our electric company)
4. Digital code from our local photomaton machine
5. Proof of financial resources. We uploaded a file with four months bank statements showing regular deposits greater than the monthly minimum.
6. Proof of health insurance. We uploaded a copies of our "Attestation de droits de l'assurance maladie" and for good measure our certificate from our mutuelle.

No birth certificates, marriage certificates, translations, etc.

We submitted the application on 24 June. At that point you are able to download a "confirmation du dépot" form.

We heard back on 28 June. They wanted me to make one correction and upload my visa separately from my passport pages, though they didn't ask my wife to do the same.

Later that same day we got emails that we were approved and were able to download an "attestation de décision favorable". The system also notified us that our cards are being produced and we will be notified by the préfecture when it is ready. At which point we I think we will get an appointment to pick it up and be fingerprinted, and have the opportunity to pay our fiscal stamps for €200 each. 

So, remarkably easy and fast .... so far.


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## InternationalGuy

jweihl said:


> I am told that online titre de séjour renewals are being rolled out département by département. In any case, my wife and I, who arrived on VLS-TS visa in September, just renewed ours online (we are in the Gard 30) and it was much easier than we were expecting.
> 
> We just signed into Étrangers en France which is the same website that we used to validate our visas upon arrival. Used our login credentials and identification number we got during the visa validation. You can switch to english if you like!
> 
> From the main screen you select the "apply for or renew residency permit".
> 
> The process is much like the ANTS system for driving license exchange. You're asked a series of questions and to attest to a number of things. Nothing too unexpected, except the "I attest that I'm not living in France in a state of polygamy".
> 
> Interestingly the system had my wife's "nom de naissance" incorrect and showed the name that her visa was issued under, her married name. This also happened to our friend who was in the same situation. There is a space you can leave comments for the reviewer. We just noted the correct nom de naissance and noted her nom de usage. I got to think they're used to seeing this.
> 
> Handily, the system will tell you the amount of resources you need to demonstrate in your finances so no more guesswork about "is this enough".
> 
> After you answer the questions, you upload your supporting documents. As I recall, we supplied:
> 
> 1. Passport data pages.
> 2. Titre de séjour (in our case a copy of our visa and the validation letter)
> 3. Proof of residence (attestation d'abonnement from our electric company)
> 4. Digital code from our local photomaton machine
> 5. Proof of financial resources. We uploaded a file with four months bank statements showing regular deposits greater than the monthly minimum.
> 6. Proof of health insurance. We uploaded a copies of our "Attestation de droits de l'assurance maladie" and for good measure our certificate from our mutuelle.
> 
> No birth certificates, marriage certificates, translations, etc.
> 
> We submitted the application on 24 June. At that point you are able to download a "confirmation du dépot" form.
> 
> We heard back on 28 June. They wanted me to make one correction and upload my visa separately from my passport pages, though they didn't ask my wife to do the same.
> 
> Later that same day we got emails that we were approved and were able to download an "attestation de décision favorable". The system also notified us that our cards are being produced and we will be notified by the préfecture when it is ready. At which point we I think we will get an appointment to pick it up and be fingerprinted, and have the opportunity to pay our fiscal stamps for €200 each.
> 
> So, remarkably easy and fast .... so far.


Great input, Thank you! I was just approved for a VLS. Being Algerian American and having applied as the former I was ineligible for the VLS-TS and have to apply for Carte de Sejour Visiteur within the first 3 months.

1- On proof of financials, I am planing to just submit my Social Security Benefit statement which exceeds the threshold of 1231 Euros/month ( as indicated on the e-application ) for a single man. I would have to find a certified translator. I am hoping this should be sufficient due to the fact my US bank statements are in English and I am trying to avoid additional and unnecessary translations fees. 

2- I was surprised I was not asked about polygamy, given that I was born in a country that allows it. However I think the fact that I was single/never married may have made a difference. 

3- I was asked to confirm I would not be seeking a "salaried job" in France. It "appears" self-employment is allowed.

4- I am looking into a new one year insurance policy from a company based in France, because the ones in the US are extremely expensive. 

5- I was glad to notice no birth certificate were required from me neither. Congrats! on hearing back quickly from Prefecture Du Gard, please report back and let us know once they notify you to have an idea on processing times. I am not sure what part of France I would like to relocate too but I heard province cities are much more efficient. 

6- Concerning ANTS, were you successful in getting your French license? if yes, how long has it taken you to get it. I am hoping to submit my application once I get "confirmation de depot" or "attestation de decision favorable".

7- One last thing, I have not seen any mentions regarding your medical certificates. I was expecting it! I thought Americans had to submit one when applying for their first carte de sejour. Was it eliminated for all VLS-TS and VLS Visiteur applicants? that would be perfect if confirmed. I am curious to know if at anytime you had to submit your OFII medical certification which if I am understanding correctly has to be obtained in the first year unless you were medically exempted. 

Merci Beaucoup!


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## jweihl

I would not expect you to have to get translations of your social security statement or bank statements translated. That wasn't necessary for our visa application. That said, the bank statement I uploaded for the renewal was from a french bank, so I can't say anything definitively.

We have applied for our driving license exchange on ANTS. I understand that it takes forever for them to process. We applied on 26 January and the application has had the status "En cours d'analyse par le service instructeur" ever since. I did however get a text and a few days ago saying basically the status hasn't changed. I wonder if they just send you a courtesy email every six months to let you know they haven't forgotten you.

With the VLS-TS visa we were summoned to the OFII office in Montpellier about 60 days after our arrival. There was a chest x-ray and a short medical visit at that point. I think that after that's done you don't have to worry about medical exams any longer.


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## GraceS

Jweihl, thanks for this useful post. Could you say more about the required financial resources? For example, you noted that the system tells you the amount of $$ you need to show. Can you tell us that number? And is the focus on bringing money to France each month? Keeping a hefty balance in a french bank account? Demonstrating that you have adequate funds in the US? All of these? Something else?

Overall, it sounds like there is nowhere near the same level of financial detail required for the renewal as there was for the initial visa. Or. . . wait . . . are we just all getting used to the "paperasse"?


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## dpdapper

jweihl said:


> The system also notified us that our cards are being produced and we will be notified by the préfecture when it is ready. At which point we I think we will get an appointment to pick it up and be fingerprinted, and have the opportunity to pay our fiscal stamps for €200 each.
> 
> So, remarkably easy and fast .... so far.


I am in the Gard as well. Approved last December—still waiting for notification that my actual card has been produced and is available for pickup. I have a récépissé showing my renewal has been approved that works to extend my existing card, but it would be nice not to have to deal with an extra piece of paper when traveling. OTOH, I’m not out the €200 yet!

I’ll be curious to hear if and when you receive notice your cards are ready. Please post when you do.


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## Bevdeforges

I suspect that if you are here based on a "public pension" like US Social Security, the assumption is that you'll just keep receiving it (with the standard increases each year). It takes a while to get used to, but here things aren't based nearly as much on how much money you have or where you choose to keep it. It really is a whole new attitude.


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## jweihl

GraceS said:


> Jweihl, thanks for this useful post. Could you say more about the required financial resources? For example, you noted that the system tells you the amount of $$ you need to show. Can you tell us that number? And is the focus on bringing money to France each month? Keeping a hefty balance in a french bank account? Demonstrating that you have adequate funds in the US? All of these? Something else?
> 
> Overall, it sounds like there is nowhere near the same level of financial detail required for the renewal as there was for the initial visa. Or. . . wait . . . are we just all getting used to the "paperasse"?


I honestly don't remember the amount. Interestingly, the amount changed when switching between french and english ... when in english mode it reported €617/month, but in french the amount was higher. I want to say it was under €1500/month.


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## saffron_gin

I am not getting the page in English, even though I switched upon login...still only get French questions but English response (if there was a problem, like when it told me my ecode for photo had expired)...

Did you have to upload all the pages of passport or just the ID page Jeff?


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## dpdapper

saffron_gin said:


> Did you have to upload all the pages of passport or just the ID page Jeff?


Only the ID page.


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## saffron_gin

dpdapper said:


> Only the ID page.


Thanks dp


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## jweihl

It really only asks for the ID page, though I did include my visa page and entry stamp. I probably need not have done so, as they asked me to upload my visa separately.


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## phillyangevin

Congrats and a relief as I'll be doing this in February 2023, two months before my long stay visitors visa expires in April. Thanks for posting!

I have two questions:

1. Although I'm a bit confused, I've learned that I can apply for french health coverage after residing here for at least 3 months. Is that what you used as proof of coverage? Or did you have to continue getting your own health insurance that was necessary for the initial visa?

2. Regarding proof of residence, do you know if they would accept a rental lease for a furnished "résidence secondaire"? This was the only type the agency that I was working with offered, I'm assuming because I only wanted something short term (3 months) until I get a better idea of where I want to settle.

All the rumors regarding French beaurocracy are correct, but it looks like they're doing a great job in improving things!


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## phillyangevin

One more question: Regarding the OFII process, I validated my VLS-TS online over 3 weeks ago and I'm a bit anxious because I still haven't been notified for a medical exam. You said you were called 60 days after your arrival. Was that automatic? Or did you first validate your visa 60 days after your arrival and then were called for the exam right after that?

I'm not sure how long I should wait for a notification of my appointment.


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## Bevdeforges

1. Once you're accepted by CPAM for health cover, you're "covered" as far as the prefecture is concerned. However, be aware that getting processed for the CPAM cover can take "a few months" as they have to validate the terms of your titre de séjour and whatever else (including your income, since they base the charges for the national health cover on your income from the prior tax year).

2. It depends - on lots of things, but generally speaking, a secondary vacation rental may not help in proving residence if you can't receive mail at the address and thus mail sent to you there would not be forwarded after your departure. Usually they want a utility bill or other proof that you "really" live there. It would be a little bit safter to find longer term accommodation before you try to enroll with CPAM.

3. (Bonus question <g>) This is France, they will call you when they are ready for you, and the wait times can vary from one prefecture to the next as much of this processing depends on which departement you are resident in. Don't forget, too, that we are moving into high vacation season here. The month of August it can be next to impossible to find a doctor or medical staff of any sort, so if you don't manage to get an appointment for the medical exam soon (i.e. by the end of July) there is a fair chance nothing will happen until September (the Rentrée - when everything springs back to life after summer vacations). Patience is a real virtue here. <g>


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## phillyangevin

Bevdeforges said:


> 1. Once you're accepted by CPAM for health cover, you're "covered" as far as the prefecture is concerned. However, be aware that getting processed for the CPAM cover can take "a few months" as they have to validate the terms of your titre de séjour and whatever else (including your income, since they base the charges for the national health cover on your income from the prior tax year).
> 
> 2. It depends - on lots of things, but generally speaking, a secondary vacation rental may not help in proving residence if you can't receive mail at the address and thus mail sent to you there would not be forwarded after your departure. Usually they want a utility bill or other proof that you "really" live there. It would be a little bit safter to find longer term accommodation before you try to enroll with CPAM.
> 
> 3. (Bonus question <g>) This is France, they will call you when they are ready for you, and the wait times can vary from one prefecture to the next as much of this processing depends on which departement you are resident in. Don't forget, too, that we are moving into high vacation season here. The month of August it can be next to impossible to find a doctor or medical staff of any sort, so if you don't manage to get an appointment for the medical exam soon (i.e. by the end of July) there is a fair chance nothing will happen until September (the Rentrée - when everything springs back to life after summer vacations). Patience is a real virtue here. <g>


 Thanks so much - all very helpful information.

I will look for more permanent digs once my lease is up. Another hurdle for me was finding a guarantor; I know very few people in all of France, never mind any who would take responsibilities for my debts. (I was able to get my current lease without one by paying the entire 3 months upfront.) I posted my issue on another thread and a generous poster pointed me to a service that will act as guatantor. (All for a monthly price of course.)


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## Bevdeforges

I think the need for a guarantor depends on where you're looking and what your circumstances are to a large extent. As an expat, you obviously don't have a local "record" to go by, and it can depend on your "financial resources." Usually better if you have some "reliable" source of income being direct deposited to your local bank account (i.e. a pension or paycheck) - which can sometimes be overcome by building a history of transferring on a regular basis from your account back home into your French account (like for a US IRA or 401K) if you're relying on funds from your US bank.

And it does seem that folks moving to various large towns in the south of France are more consistently expected to have a guarantor than may be the case in other parts of France. Local custom perhaps, I'm not sure.


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## phillyangevin

Bevdeforges said:


> I think the need for a guarantor depends on where you're looking and what your circumstances are to a large extent. As an expat, you obviously don't have a local "record" to go by, and it can depend on your "financial resources." Usually better if you have some "reliable" source of income being direct deposited to your local bank account (i.e. a pension or paycheck) - which can sometimes be overcome by building a history of transferring on a regular basis from your account back home into your French account (like for a US IRA or 401K) if you're relying on funds from your US bank.
> 
> And it does seem that folks moving to various large towns in the south of France are more consistently expected to have a guarantor than may be the case in other parts of France. Local custom perhaps, I'm not sure.


Thanks - great advice,
I will look into transferring funds on a more regular basis for the next three months and maybe with proof of my savings and regular pension payments I can try and get a lease without a guarantor. It doesn't hurt to try! Who knows, maybe my pension fund manager will be able to deposit my payments directly into my french account; I'd just assumed they couldn't, but never asked.


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## Bevdeforges

phillyangevin said:


> my pension fund manager will be able to deposit my payments directly into my french account; I'd just assumed they couldn't, but never asked.


If the pension can be direct deposited to your French account, that's the way to go. (Also helps for opening a French bank account in the first place.) If you have US Social Security, that can be direct deposited (at what is normally a pretty decent exchange rate) by contacting the Federal Benefits Unit at the US Embassy in Paris.


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## jweihl

Just to amplify what Bev often says, waiting times for various bureaucracies to complete will be longer and more inconsistent than you'd expect if you're American. Waiting times will vary by time of year, which region/prefecture/city is handling your case, and individual person handling your case. For example we're a group of four that arrived here at roughly the same time and did things the same way, yet our experiences with return times are often quite different. I got my paperwork done first, got my social security number first, but my wife got her Carte Vitale months before me (mine's still not "quite" here). We submitted our driver license exchange requests at the same time and heard back almost exactly six months later. I had to submit more documentation, while she (doing things the exact same way) did not. Patience, perseverance, and keeping on top of things seem to be the key.

One general thought/observation: as process become more online and automated, they do seem to go a bit quicker than I'm told they did historically. 

We're retired and here's what we do (and so far it seems acceptable): We get a monthly distribution from our (fidelity) IRA which goes directly into our US credit union account. Then that amount is sent automatically (I've set it us as an electronic "bill pay") to our Wise Account. I get a notification that the money has landed in Wise and I convert it to euros and send it to my HSBC france bank RIB (though sometimes I'll wait a day or two to get a better exchange rate). Thus I get monthly deposits for roughly the same amount and at roughly the same time of month. Minimal manual effort and I get an auto reminder to do that.


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## phillyangevin

I like your process for getting to your retirement funds "automatically". I'll look into a similar procedure if I can't get my pension deposited directly into my french account.


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