# UK citizen lived 13 yrs Australia and 10 in NZ - a comparison



## Fiona AK

I am a UK citizen who moved to Australia after finishing Uni and then came to live in NZ in 2000 and thought my experiences might be of interest to people contemplating migration from Britain and unsure of whether to go to NZ or Oz. 

Australia offers hot, reliable weather, relatively high wages and good government services including healthcare and a generally high standard of living. However, the two biggest cities, Melbourne and Sydney can feel rather overwhelming because of the density of population. House prices in Sydney are astronomical if you want to be within sniffing distance of the sea and living out in the sweltering western suburbs in summer time is rather dismal. Similarly in Melbourne it can be boiling and the seething traffic in the inner city is rather hard to take. 
Australian cities have great restaurants (particularly Melbourne) and good food generally and a variety of entertainment. The large numbers of Greek and Italian migrants make cafes and street life vibrant and lively. Australian TV is excellent, particularly SBS and ABC. 
The Aussies can be a caustic, hard edged lot and their attitude to migrants can be rather unwelcoming until you get used to them. The sense of humour is rather akin to that of the brits (except that the Aussies are not so willing to laugh at themselves!!). All in all it is fairly easy to settle in to Australia as a British migrant. I particularly remember the feeling of freedom I got when I first went to Aussie - the feeling that anything was possible and the enjoyment of unpopulated beaches and the bush. 
I always preferred living in rural areas, particularly in Victoria and in Western Australia where I worked on mine sites. I loved the bush, the coast and the Australian wildlife and would have happily stayed in Aussie if I could have found well paying permanent work outside the cities. However, work was only practicable for me in Sydney and after 4 years of that I fled to NZ. 

NZ is a beautiful country with friendly people but I constantly re-think whether I want to live here, especially as my children near the end of primary school. The bush is lush, the landscapes amazing, life is laid back and if you live in Auckland there is a reasonable variety of entertainment and restaurants. 

However, there is a real feeling of stagnation here and an alarmingly dumbed down culture. TV is riddled with adverts and aimed at the unintelligent. Commercial interests intrude into schools and even into hospitals - Auckland's children's hospital "Starship" even has a McDonalds outlet!!!! Kiwis seem to have the national motto "mustn't grumble" and the lack of political activism allows rampant exploitation of workers and free rein to unscrupulous right wing governments. 

We are lucky to have a decent local primary school but no good high schools nearby. The crazy system of making kids go to intermediate school for 2 years and then to high school means constant disruption. I am sure, having attended 2 Australian universities, that the tertiary education is better in Oz. 

Job opportunities here are limited due to the low population and lack of large employers. Wages are pretty appalling on the whole and taxes high (there is no tax free threshold). On the whole, only welfare beneficiaries get a good deal here!!! 

Having said that, this is the ideal country for older people who have some money saved to retire too - peaceful and picturesque. For younger would-be migrants......hmm, not so sure. If you have a well-paid job and are happy with a laidback but rather insular existence then you will enjoy it here. 

A word of advice for all would-be migrants - once you have migrated you change as a person - your country of birth never seems quite the same so it is hard to go back, and you rarely feel completely at home in your new country because the new culture is unfamiliar and you have no childhood bond with it. The honeymoon period lasts a few years and then the urge to move to greener pastures kicks in.....!!


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## Gimme5

Fiona AK said:


> I am a UK citizen who moved to Australia after finishing Uni and then came to live in NZ in 2000 and thought my experiences might be of interest to people contemplating migration from Britain and unsure of whether to go to NZ or Oz.
> 
> Australia offers hot, reliable weather, relatively high wages and good government services including healthcare and a generally high standard of living. However, the two biggest cities, Melbourne and Sydney can feel rather overwhelming because of the density of population. House prices in Sydney are astronomical if you want to be within sniffing distance of the sea and living out in the sweltering western suburbs in summer time is rather dismal. Similarly in Melbourne it can be boiling and the seething traffic in the inner city is rather hard to take.
> Australian cities have great restaurants (particularly Melbourne) and good food generally and a variety of entertainment. The large numbers of Greek and Italian migrants make cafes and street life vibrant and lively. Australian TV is excellent, particularly SBS and ABC.
> The Aussies can be a caustic, hard edged lot and their attitude to migrants can be rather unwelcoming until you get used to them. The sense of humour is rather akin to that of the brits (except that the Aussies are not so willing to laugh at themselves!!). All in all it is fairly easy to settle in to Australia as a British migrant. I particularly remember the feeling of freedom I got when I first went to Aussie - the feeling that anything was possible and the enjoyment of unpopulated beaches and the bush.
> I always preferred living in rural areas, particularly in Victoria and in Western Australia where I worked on mine sites. I loved the bush, the coast and the Australian wildlife and would have happily stayed in Aussie if I could have found well paying permanent work outside the cities. However, work was only practicable for me in Sydney and after 4 years of that I fled to NZ.
> 
> NZ is a beautiful country with friendly people but I constantly re-think whether I want to live here, especially as my children near the end of primary school. The bush is lush, the landscapes amazing, life is laid back and if you live in Auckland there is a reasonable variety of entertainment and restaurants.
> 
> However, there is a real feeling of stagnation here and an alarmingly dumbed down culture. TV is riddled with adverts and aimed at the unintelligent. Commercial interests intrude into schools and even into hospitals - Auckland's children's hospital "Starship" even has a McDonalds outlet!!!! Kiwis seem to have the national motto "mustn't grumble" and the lack of political activism allows rampant exploitation of workers and free rein to unscrupulous right wing governments.
> 
> We are lucky to have a decent local primary school but no good high schools nearby. The crazy system of making kids go to intermediate school for 2 years and then to high school means constant disruption. I am sure, having attended 2 Australian universities, that the tertiary education is better in Oz.
> 
> Job opportunities here are limited due to the low population and lack of large employers. Wages are pretty appalling on the whole and taxes high (there is no tax free threshold). On the whole, only welfare beneficiaries get a good deal here!!!
> 
> Having said that, this is the ideal country for older people who have some money saved to retire too - peaceful and picturesque. For younger would-be migrants......hmm, not so sure. If you have a well-paid job and are happy with a laidback but rather insular existence then you will enjoy it here.
> 
> A word of advice for all would-be migrants - once you have migrated you change as a person - your country of birth never seems quite the same so it is hard to go back, and you rarely feel completely at home in your new country because the new culture is unfamiliar and you have no childhood bond with it. The honeymoon period lasts a few years and then the urge to move to greener pastures kicks in.....!!


I'm sure many would appreciate your point of view and opinion having grown up in the UK and lived and worked in both Australia and NZ. However, what you wrote namely "Kiwis seem to have the national motto "mustn't grumble" and the lack of political activism allows rampant exploitation of workers and free rein to unscrupulous right wing governments" puzzles me. During the entire time you spent in NZ from Year 2000-2010, wasn't the LEFT wing running the show? Can you elaborate further on these so-called "rampant exploitation of workers" by Labour and Greens who were in power?

Also must admit I can't disagree with you more on the "mustn't grumble" bit. I think Kiwis love to grumble, whine, criticise and complain just about anything and everything. Read the NZ Herald everyday and you'll know what I mean, there's hardly any real news there.


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## topcat83

Gimme5 said:


> ....Also must admit I can't disagree with you more on the "mustn't grumble" bit. I think Kiwis love to grumble, whine, criticise and complain just about anything and everything. Read the NZ Herald everyday and you'll know what I mean, there's hardly any real news there.


Had to laugh about the 'no news in the Herald' - it may be because there aint that much NZ news! That's personally what I like - we're far away from the problems in the Middle East and quite a lot of the rest of the world. 

My favourite 'national' news article yesterday was this one: Mower fight 'best damn show for years' - National - NZ Herald News

Only in NZ could you have an article about a lawnmower fight!


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## topcat83

topcat83 said:


> Had to laugh about the 'no news in the Herald' - it may be because there aint that much NZ news! That's personally what I like - we're far away from the problems in the Middle East and quite a lot of the rest of the world.
> 
> My favourite 'national' news article yesterday was this one: Mower fight 'best damn show for years' - National - NZ Herald News
> 
> Only in NZ could you have an article about a lawnmower fight!


...and today's 'Headline News' from NZ....Toddler unplugged - World - NZ Herald News


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## Gimme5

topcat83 said:


> Had to laugh about the 'no news in the Herald' - it may be because there aint that much NZ news! That's personally what I like - we're far away from the problems in the Middle East and quite a lot of the rest of the world.
> 
> My favourite 'national' news article yesterday was this one: Mower fight 'best damn show for years' - National - NZ Herald News
> 
> Only in NZ could you have an article about a lawnmower fight!


My point being that the media here seems to be more interested in publishing criticisms and complains and demonizing people, corporations and the government rather than reporting the real news itself. No doubt that's exactly what most people want. Splashed across today's NZ HErald reads "WHAT A JOKE". The whole article was dedicated to demonizing Rod Petricevic, highlighting his affluent lifestyle, criticizing him and trying to whip up public sentiment against him. Admittedly I'm no fan of the man and I'm not trying to defend him but to me, that's not real headline news.


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## Fiona AK

Well - the reference to unscrupulous right wing governments is to our lovely present government but the exploitation of workers took place equally under the previous government. Individual contracts and low union membership mean that Kiwi workers are divided and ruled. People here are not supportive of unions and activism in the workplace - look at the reactions to recent teacher strikes. There seems to be the attitude that we should all be grateful for our jobs - no matter how badly paid. What a bonus for all the avaricious capitalists!!! By the way, I should say that I am self employed so not a personal gripe but my partner has suffered badly from unfair contracts and employers as an employed tradesman. 





Gimme5 said:


> I'm sure many would appreciate your point of view and opinion having grown up in the UK and lived and worked in both Australia and NZ. However, what you wrote namely "Kiwis seem to have the national motto "mustn't grumble" and the lack of political activism allows rampant exploitation of workers and free rein to unscrupulous right wing governments" puzzles me. During the entire time you spent in NZ from Year 2000-2010, wasn't the LEFT wing running the show? Can you elaborate further on these so-called "rampant exploitation of workers" by Labour and Greens who were in power?
> 
> Also must admit I can't disagree with you more on the "mustn't grumble" bit. I think Kiwis love to grumble, whine, criticise and complain just about anything and everything. Read the NZ Herald everyday and you'll know what I mean, there's hardly any real news there.


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## Yvonne.72

topcat83 said:


> Had to laugh about the 'no news in the Herald' - it may be because there aint that much NZ news! That's personally what I like - we're far away from the problems in the Middle East and quite a lot of the rest of the world.
> 
> My favourite 'national' news article yesterday was this one: Mower fight 'best damn show for years' - National - NZ Herald News
> 
> Only in NZ could you have an article about a lawnmower fight!


There's news alright, just too few real journalists left in New Zealand to investigate and report on it. The Herald is more like a banal daily magazine than a newspaper. 

Better journalistic endeavor and comment can be found on the NZ's news blog sites, places like the standard.org.nz and the sites that it lists under Media Sites like "Editing the Herald"


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## topcat83

Gimme5 said:


> My point being that the media here seems to be more interested in publishing criticisms and complains and demonizing people, corporations and the government rather than reporting the real news itself. No doubt that's exactly what most people want. Splashed across today's NZ HErald reads "WHAT A JOKE". The whole article was dedicated to demonizing Rod Petricevic, highlighting his affluent lifestyle, criticizing him and trying to whip up public sentiment against him. Admittedly I'm no fan of the man and I'm not trying to defend him but to me, that's not real headline news.


If you think this is bad then I suggest you (a) ask the people who were on the receiving end of the $460 million NZD loss for their opinion of the news and (b) go and look at the reporting done by the majority of UK newspapers. 

General opinion in my office is that the paper was definitely reporting an important news item, and was perfectly justified in what they reported.

In my opinion the NZ Herald is a much better representer of the facts than any 'newspaper' in the UK. I can't comment too much about Australian newspapers, but if Rupert Murdock is still the owner of a number of them then I refuse to believe that they won't be biased (and news manipulated) in some way.


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## Yvonne.72

It does re-pubilsh material from the UK's Observer, Daily Telegraph and the Independent and has a right wing bias. At one time it even had the nic "Granny Herald" 

I think the Herald is now owned by APN media, which is an Australian news and media company, partly owned by an Irish company.


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## Yvonne.72

Fiona AK said:


> I am a UK citizen who moved to Australia after finishing Uni and then came to live in NZ in 2000 and thought my experiences might be of interest to people contemplating migration from Britain and unsure of whether to go to NZ or Oz.
> 
> Australia offers hot, reliable weather, relatively high wages and good government services including healthcare and a generally high standard of living. However, the two biggest cities, Melbourne and Sydney can feel rather overwhelming because of the density of population. House prices in Sydney are astronomical if you want to be within sniffing distance of the sea and living out in the sweltering western suburbs in summer time is rather dismal. Similarly in Melbourne it can be boiling and the seething traffic in the inner city is rather hard to take.
> Australian cities have great restaurants (particularly Melbourne) and good food generally and a variety of entertainment. The large numbers of Greek and Italian migrants make cafes and street life vibrant and lively. Australian TV is excellent, particularly SBS and ABC.
> The Aussies can be a caustic, hard edged lot and their attitude to migrants can be rather unwelcoming until you get used to them. The sense of humour is rather akin to that of the brits (except that the Aussies are not so willing to laugh at themselves!!). All in all it is fairly easy to settle in to Australia as a British migrant. I particularly remember the feeling of freedom I got when I first went to Aussie - the feeling that anything was possible and the enjoyment of unpopulated beaches and the bush.
> I always preferred living in rural areas, particularly in Victoria and in Western Australia where I worked on mine sites. I loved the bush, the coast and the Australian wildlife and would have happily stayed in Aussie if I could have found well paying permanent work outside the cities. However, work was only practicable for me in Sydney and after 4 years of that I fled to NZ.
> 
> NZ is a beautiful country with friendly people but I constantly re-think whether I want to live here, especially as my children near the end of primary school. The bush is lush, the landscapes amazing, life is laid back and if you live in Auckland there is a reasonable variety of entertainment and restaurants.
> 
> However, there is a real feeling of stagnation here and an alarmingly dumbed down culture. TV is riddled with adverts and aimed at the unintelligent. Commercial interests intrude into schools and even into hospitals - Auckland's children's hospital "Starship" even has a McDonalds outlet!!!! Kiwis seem to have the national motto "mustn't grumble" and the lack of political activism allows rampant exploitation of workers and free rein to unscrupulous right wing governments.
> 
> We are lucky to have a decent local primary school but no good high schools nearby. The crazy system of making kids go to intermediate school for 2 years and then to high school means constant disruption. I am sure, having attended 2 Australian universities, that the tertiary education is better in Oz.
> 
> Job opportunities here are limited due to the low population and lack of large employers. Wages are pretty appalling on the whole and taxes high (there is no tax free threshold). On the whole, only welfare beneficiaries get a good deal here!!!
> 
> Having said that, this is the ideal country for older people who have some money saved to retire too - peaceful and picturesque. For younger would-be migrants......hmm, not so sure. If you have a well-paid job and are happy with a laidback but rather insular existence then you will enjoy it here.
> 
> A word of advice for all would-be migrants - once you have migrated you change as a person - your country of birth never seems quite the same so it is hard to go back, and you rarely feel completely at home in your new country because the new culture is unfamiliar and you have no childhood bond with it. The honeymoon period lasts a few years and then the urge to move to greener pastures kicks in.....!!


Remarkably well balanced post Fiona, my only comment would be that Australia has probably changed a lot since you left.

Have you thought about publishing it on the Australia forum too, I'm sure that some of the many people who read that forum would find it very useful. There seem to be a lot of people who are considering both countries and would like to read about a comparison between the two.


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## Boodle

topcat83 said:


> If you think this is bad then I suggest you (a) ask the people who were on the receiving end of the $460 million NZD loss for their opinion of the news and (b) *go and look at the reporting done by the majority of UK newspapers. *
> General opinion in my office is that the paper was definitely reporting an important news item, and was perfectly justified in what they reported.
> 
> *In my opinion the NZ Herald is a much better representer of the facts than any 'newspaper' in the UK*. I can't comment too much about Australian newspapers, but if Rupert Murdock is still the owner of a number of them then I refuse to believe that they won't be biased (and news manipulated) in some way.


I've been looking at this site for a while and you, as moderator, always harp on about "balanced" posts.

This thread was a comparison betwen Australia and New Zealand so quite how the UK should be involved I'm not sure although I suppose you think there is some logic to it. Perhaps by having a dig at the UK you feel you are introducing some "balance".

To say that the NZ Herald is a better representer of the facts than any UK newspaper is complete and utter guff. The NZ Herald, which is one of the main "serious" papers in the country is probably better at facts than the UK tabloids but is far less entertaining and can not be compared with *any *of the UK broadsheets.

Talking of balance: you were in the UK recently and made a post about a number of items being cheaper to buy in the UK and a number of items being *much* cheaper in NZ (note the "balance" again) and you said you would list things as you came across them. I don't recall an updated list or perhaps you thought it wouldn't be "balanced".

Practice what you preach instead of trying to get sly digs in at the country that educated you and your children:boxing:


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## topcat83

Boodle said:


> I've been looking at this site for a while and you, as moderator, always harp on about "balanced" posts.
> 
> This thread was a comparison betwen Australia and New Zealand so quite how the UK should be involved I'm not sure although I suppose you think there is some logic to it. Perhaps by having a dig at the UK you feel you are introducing some "balance".
> 
> To say that the NZ Herald is a better representer of the facts than any UK newspaper is complete and utter guff. The NZ Herald, which is one of the main "serious" papers in the country is probably better at facts than the UK tabloids but is far less entertaining and can not be compared with *any *of the UK broadsheets.
> 
> Talking of balance: you were in the UK recently and made a post about a number of items being cheaper to buy in the UK and a number of items being *much* cheaper in NZ (note the "balance" again) and you said you would list things as you came across them. I don't recall an updated list or perhaps you thought it wouldn't be "balanced".
> 
> Practice what you preach instead of trying to get sly digs in at the country that educated you and your children:boxing:


Well Boodle, for a first post, you certainly know how to make friends and influence people, don't you?

Not sure I want a fight, so will leave the majority of regular contributors to judge how balanced I am.

Oh - and just because I'm a moderator doesn't mean I can't have a personal opinion....


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## Yvonne.72

Boodle I think Topcat has had a few other things on her mind that have been more important than lists recently. 

Topcat I saw you write something about shipping over your mum's things and guessed that it wasn't because she was coming to live with you, also your partner has been ill recently. If you need it we're here to support you too.


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## topcat83

Yvonne.72 said:


> Boodle I think Topcat has had a few other things on her mind that have been more important than lists recently.
> 
> Topcat I saw you write something about shipping over your mum's things and guessed that it wasn't because she was coming to live with you, also your partner has been ill recently. If you need it we're here to support you too.


Hi Yvonne - as you say, it has been a difficult year. I'm glad 2011 is here 

In a way having the forum to attend to has been a blessing that has kept me occupied and amongst friends.

Hopefully I haven't been too grumpy or emotional along the way


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## moyra.pizer

*relocating from south africa*



Fiona AK said:


> I am a UK citizen who moved to Australia after finishing Uni and then came to live in NZ in 2000 and thought my experiences might be of interest to people contemplating migration from Britain and unsure of whether to go to NZ or Oz.
> 
> Australia offers hot, reliable weather, relatively high wages and good government services including healthcare and a generally high standard of living. However, the two biggest cities, Melbourne and Sydney can feel rather overwhelming because of the density of population. House prices in Sydney are astronomical if you want to be within sniffing distance of the sea and living out in the sweltering western suburbs in summer time is rather dismal. Similarly in Melbourne it can be boiling and the seething traffic in the inner city is rather hard to take.
> Australian cities have great restaurants (particularly Melbourne) and good food generally and a variety of entertainment. The large numbers of Greek and Italian migrants make cafes and street life vibrant and lively. Australian TV is excellent, particularly SBS and ABC.
> The Aussies can be a caustic, hard edged lot and their attitude to migrants can be rather unwelcoming until you get used to them. The sense of humour is rather akin to that of the brits (except that the Aussies are not so willing to laugh at themselves!!). All in all it is fairly easy to settle in to Australia as a British migrant. I particularly remember the feeling of freedom I got when I first went to Aussie - the feeling that anything was possible and the enjoyment of unpopulated beaches and the bush.
> I always preferred living in rural areas, particularly in Victoria and in Western Australia where I worked on mine sites. I loved the bush, the coast and the Australian wildlife and would have happily stayed in Aussie if I could have found well paying permanent work outside the cities. However, work was only practicable for me in Sydney and after 4 years of that I fled to NZ.
> 
> NZ is a beautiful country with friendly people but I constantly re-think whether I want to live here, especially as my children near the end of primary school. The bush is lush, the landscapes amazing, life is laid back and if you live in Auckland there is a reasonable variety of entertainment and restaurants.
> 
> However, there is a real feeling of stagnation here and an alarmingly dumbed down culture. TV is riddled with adverts and aimed at the unintelligent. Commercial interests intrude into schools and even into hospitals - Auckland's children's hospital "Starship" even has a McDonalds outlet!!!! Kiwis seem to have the national motto "mustn't grumble" and the lack of political activism allows rampant exploitation of workers and free rein to unscrupulous right wing governments.
> 
> We are lucky to have a decent local primary school but no good high schools nearby. The crazy system of making kids go to intermediate school for 2 years and then to high school means constant disruption. I am sure, having attended 2 Australian universities, that the tertiary education is better in Oz.
> 
> Job opportunities here are limited due to the low population and lack of large employers. Wages are pretty appalling on the whole and taxes high (there is no tax free threshold). On the whole, only welfare beneficiaries get a good deal here!!!
> 
> Having said that, this is the ideal country for older people who have some money saved to retire too - peaceful and picturesque. For younger would-be migrants......hmm, not so sure. If you have a well-paid job and are happy with a laidback but rather insular existence then you will enjoy it here.
> 
> A word of advice for all would-be migrants - once you have migrated you change as a person - your country of birth never seems quite the same so it is hard to go back, and you rarely feel completely at home in your new country because the new culture is unfamiliar and you have no childhood bond with it. The honeymoon period lasts a few years and then the urge to move to greener pastures kicks in.....!!


Myself and my husband have a 4 year old son, we are currently doing some research to move from south africa to either new zealand or australia. I am a police detective with 10 years service and my husband is working as loss adjuster and was also a police officer for 4 years and then worked for a company recovering hijacked and stolen vehicles. Your message assisted me alot and it is nice to hear from people who is honest about the living conditions about the country they live in. Thanks so much


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## Siouxzee

hi moyra
what have you decided?


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## moyra.pizer

Siouxzee said:


> hi moyra
> what have you decided?


We have made a decision to move already, now it is the hard part that must begin. Love all the threads it gives me so much information


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## linbin

Fiona
i found your letter very interesting my family and i have lived in France for 7 years(british by birth)and feel the time is right to move on to an English speaking country (but not uk)have a pending option to go to NZ which we visited in November. Really liked Orewa and surrounds and that is where the job is we are in our lates 40's and teenage children. Want to be coastal. also have Oz visa pending for 2012 which would probably be Victoria as husbands family are there. As we have migrated before not too daunted but would value any furhter input



Fiona AK said:


> I am a UK citizen who moved to Australia after finishing Uni and then came to live in NZ in 2000 and thought my experiences might be of interest to people contemplating migration from Britain and unsure of whether to go to NZ or Oz.
> 
> Australia offers hot, reliable weather, relatively high wages and good government services including healthcare and a generally high standard of living. However, the two biggest cities, Melbourne and Sydney can feel rather overwhelming because of the density of population. House prices in Sydney are astronomical if you want to be within sniffing distance of the sea and living out in the sweltering western suburbs in summer time is rather dismal. Similarly in Melbourne it can be boiling and the seething traffic in the inner city is rather hard to take.
> Australian cities have great restaurants (particularly Melbourne) and good food generally and a variety of entertainment. The large numbers of Greek and Italian migrants make cafes and street life vibrant and lively. Australian TV is excellent, particularly SBS and ABC.
> The Aussies can be a caustic, hard edged lot and their attitude to migrants can be rather unwelcoming until you get used to them. The sense of humour is rather akin to that of the brits (except that the Aussies are not so willing to laugh at themselves!!). All in all it is fairly easy to settle in to Australia as a British migrant. I particularly remember the feeling of freedom I got when I first went to Aussie - the feeling that anything was possible and the enjoyment of unpopulated beaches and the bush.
> I always preferred living in rural areas, particularly in Victoria and in Western Australia where I worked on mine sites. I loved the bush, the coast and the Australian wildlife and would have happily stayed in Aussie if I could have found well paying permanent work outside the cities. However, work was only practicable for me in Sydney and after 4 years of that I fled to NZ.
> 
> NZ is a beautiful country with friendly people but I constantly re-think whether I want to live here, especially as my children near the end of primary school. The bush is lush, the landscapes amazing, life is laid back and if you live in Auckland there is a reasonable variety of entertainment and restaurants.
> 
> However, there is a real feeling of stagnation here and an alarmingly dumbed down culture. TV is riddled with adverts and aimed at the unintelligent. Commercial interests intrude into schools and even into hospitals - Auckland's children's hospital "Starship" even has a McDonalds outlet!!!! Kiwis seem to have the national motto "mustn't grumble" and the lack of political activism allows rampant exploitation of workers and free rein to unscrupulous right wing governments.
> 
> We are lucky to have a decent local primary school but no good high schools nearby. The crazy system of making kids go to intermediate school for 2 years and then to high school means constant disruption. I am sure, having attended 2 Australian universities, that the tertiary education is better in Oz.
> 
> Job opportunities here are limited due to the low population and lack of large employers. Wages are pretty appalling on the whole and taxes high (there is no tax free threshold). On the whole, only welfare beneficiaries get a good deal here!!!
> 
> Having said that, this is the ideal country for older people who have some money saved to retire too - peaceful and picturesque. For younger would-be migrants......hmm, not so sure. If you have a well-paid job and are happy with a laidback but rather insular existence then you will enjoy it here.
> 
> A word of advice for all would-be migrants - once you have migrated you change as a person - your country of birth never seems quite the same so it is hard to go back, and you rarely feel completely at home in your new country because the new culture is unfamiliar and you have no childhood bond with it. The honeymoon period lasts a few years and then the urge to move to greener pastures kicks in.....!!


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## blueflamegas

Hi,

just read your post as you did mine,very informative i must say,i/we do have our reservations about the wages in NZ,but we keep telling ourselves it is not about the money,if it was we would stay here in our £350k home and live the materialistic existence all brits seem to be so accustomed to.Aus was an option that was given thought but as my job as a heating engineer takes me into places seldom ventured by humans but largely inhabited by things that tend to hurt alot when they bite we had to give it a pass....It does concern me the low wages NZ offers but if i had not pushed myself here to achieve and make something of myself carreer wise i could have easily been one of those in the uk on the min wage and hope that my drive will push us forward in NZ, might i add the min wage here is appauling and i struggle to understand how some folk here who work hard in un skilled occupations can afford to live.We do live out in the sticks in the uk in the hills of derbyshire so we are not looking for husstle&bustle,shopping malls etc so it would not be a shock not to have them as we never really venture into stockport or manchester,it always seems when we do rarely venture down we are gasping for air until we get back to the green hills.
As for when we leave here im pretty sure there wont be any feelings of regret or a feeling of being unable to fit back into what we have left behind again,we feel as though we do not fit in here now as resident uk nationals,if you have been left the uk for 13 years you will be astounded by how much it has changed for the worst,visual open corruption in parliment,and yes it has always been there but to now be openly corrupt with the view of the openess being a form of honesty just stinks,the welfare sysytem here is great if you are on it and the scams available if you know how to twist this system are astounding also very very annoying if you happen to be the one footing the ever increasing tax bills,then immigration,a new ruling brought into effect from the idiots in Brussels that run the uk says that as from the end of May this year any person from within the EU can enter the uk and claim housing benefit/job seekers allowance etc etc,whilst me who has lived here since birth,worked for the last 26 years paying my taxes cannot claim....Common sense has been lost in the UK,human rights has devastated our social system and freedom of speech is a double edges sword that is only tolerated if you happen to be from outside the UK and happen to be venting hatred towards britain.
So miss this place we shall not,after all,the UK has banned the nursery rhyme dating back to 1761,ba ba black sheep as it is racist,bans the word blackboard from schools and removes the gollywog off jam jars as offensive,and bans under the guise of inciting racial hatred the door to door delivery of chrstian church panflets,Oxfam is no longer allowed to put up a christmas tree as it offends ethnics and christmas lights can no longer be called such when put up by councils in certain areas of the uk as that also offends.It sadly is no longer England,the place our grandparents and their parents gave their lives to protect for our future.You did the right thing getting out whatever your reasons were at the time...Good luck..And as they say with life "Drink it while its fizzy!"


----------



## cottontail1

blueflamegas said:


> Hi,
> 
> just read your post as you did mine,very informative i must say,i/we do have our reservations about the wages in NZ,but we keep telling ourselves it is not about the money,if it was we would stay here in our £350k home and live the materialistic existence all brits seem to be so accustomed to.Aus was an option that was given thought but as my job as a heating engineer takes me into places seldom ventured by humans but largely inhabited by things that tend to hurt alot when they bite we had to give it a pass....It does concern me the low wages NZ offers but if i had not pushed myself here to achieve and make something of myself carreer wise i could have easily been one of those in the uk on the min wage and hope that my drive will push us forward in NZ, might i add the min wage here is appauling and i struggle to understand how some folk here who work hard in un skilled occupations can afford to live.We do live out in the sticks in the uk in the hills of derbyshire so we are not looking for husstle&bustle,shopping malls etc so it would not be a shock not to have them as we never really venture into stockport or manchester,it always seems when we do rarely venture down we are gasping for air until we get back to the green hills.
> As for when we leave here im pretty sure there wont be any feelings of regret or a feeling of being unable to fit back into what we have left behind again,we feel as though we do not fit in here now as resident uk nationals,if you have been left the uk for 13 years you will be astounded by how much it has changed for the worst,visual open corruption in parliment,and yes it has always been there but to now be openly corrupt with the view of the openess being a form of honesty just stinks,the welfare sysytem here is great if you are on it and the scams available if you know how to twist this system are astounding also very very annoying if you happen to be the one footing the ever increasing tax bills,then immigration,a new ruling brought into effect from the idiots in Brussels that run the uk says that as from the end of May this year any person from within the EU can enter the uk and claim housing benefit/job seekers allowance etc etc,whilst me who has lived here since birth,worked for the last 26 years paying my taxes cannot claim....Common sense has been lost in the UK,human rights has devastated our social system and freedom of speech is a double edges sword that is only tolerated if you happen to be from outside the UK and happen to be venting hatred towards britain.
> So miss this place we shall not,after all,the UK has banned the nursery rhyme dating back to 1761,ba ba black sheep as it is racist,bans the word blackboard from schools and removes the gollywog off jam jars as offensive,and bans under the guise of inciting racial hatred the door to door delivery of chrstian church panflets,Oxfam is no longer allowed to put up a christmas tree as it offends ethnics and christmas lights can no longer be called such when put up by councils in certain areas of the uk as that also offends.It sadly is no longer England,the place our grandparents and their parents gave their lives to protect for our future.You did the right thing getting out whatever your reasons were at the time...Good luck..And as they say with life "Drink it while its fizzy!"


Oh blueflamegas, I totally agree with you! I'm unfortunate enough to have a job administering housing/council tax benefit and whilst I appreciate I am lucky to have a job I am sick to death of people shouting/swearing/threatening me. They must think I make up the regulations. It's awful. We are looking to move to NZ for pretty much the same reasons as yourself. Still pretty new to it all, excited and scared and going into the unknown. One thing I am sure of is that I won't look back once I get out of uk. The government can stick their budgets! I heard today that the state pension will rise after the next election. All fiddled so the pensioners will vote these morons in again. But there isn't much of a choice, bit like Dumb or Dumber!


----------



## Darla.R

blueflamegas said:


> Hi,
> 
> just read your post as you did mine,very informative i must say,i/we do have our reservations about the wages in NZ,but we keep telling ourselves it is not about the money,if it was we would stay here in our £350k home and live the materialistic existence all brits seem to be so accustomed to.Aus was an option that was given thought but as my job as a heating engineer takes me into places seldom ventured by humans but largely inhabited by things that tend to hurt alot when they bite we had to give it a pass....It does concern me the low wages NZ offers but if i had not pushed myself here to achieve and make something of myself carreer wise i could have easily been one of those in the uk on the min wage and hope that my drive will push us forward in NZ, might i add the min wage here is appauling and i struggle to understand how some folk here who work hard in un skilled occupations can afford to live.We do live out in the sticks in the uk in the hills of derbyshire so we are not looking for husstle&bustle,shopping malls etc so it would not be a shock not to have them as we never really venture into stockport or manchester,it always seems when we do rarely venture down we are gasping for air until we get back to the green hills.
> As for when we leave here im pretty sure there wont be any feelings of regret or a feeling of being unable to fit back into what we have left behind again,we feel as though we do not fit in here now as resident uk nationals,if you have been left the uk for 13 years you will be astounded by how much it has changed for the worst,visual open corruption in parliment,and yes it has always been there but to now be openly corrupt with the view of the openess being a form of honesty just stinks,the welfare sysytem here is great if you are on it and the scams available if you know how to twist this system are astounding also very very annoying if you happen to be the one footing the ever increasing tax bills,then immigration,a new ruling brought into effect from the idiots in Brussels that run the uk says that as from the end of May this year any person from within the EU can enter the uk and claim housing benefit/job seekers allowance etc etc,whilst me who has lived here since birth,worked for the last 26 years paying my taxes cannot claim....Common sense has been lost in the UK,human rights has devastated our social system and freedom of speech is a double edges sword that is only tolerated if you happen to be from outside the UK and happen to be venting hatred towards britain.
> So miss this place we shall not,after all,the UK has banned the nursery rhyme dating back to 1761,ba ba black sheep as it is racist,bans the word blackboard from schools and removes the gollywog off jam jars as offensive,and bans under the guise of inciting racial hatred the door to door delivery of chrstian church panflets,Oxfam is no longer allowed to put up a christmas tree as it offends ethnics and christmas lights can no longer be called such when put up by councils in certain areas of the uk as that also offends.It sadly is no longer England,the place our grandparents and their parents gave their lives to protect for our future.You did the right thing getting out whatever your reasons were at the time...Good luck..And as they say with life "Drink it while its fizzy!"


Boy have you got a shock coming to you!  

You say you dislike the immigrants in the UK and feel like a stranger in your own country. And your solution to that is to become an immigrant in another. Do you realise how stupid that sounds and how likely you are to come a cropper with that sort of thinking?

NZ isn't some little southern hemisphere, scrubbed up, prettier version of Britain. It has all of the same problems though just on a smaller scale.

It is a small Pacific island nation with a very strong Maori culture, it has more in common with Australia and the far east that it does with the British way of life.

As for working as a heating engineer. Have you checked to see what sort of jobs are available in NZ? what are your chances of finding work - pretty slim I'd say. New Zealand doesn't "do" heating. People rely on air conditioners (heat pumps) open fires and calor gas heaters to warm their homes. Gas fired central heating is pretty rare and by no means the norm.

But if you wanted to work as a prison officer you'd stand a far greater chance of finding a job.


----------



## anski

blueflamegas said:


> Hi,
> 
> just read your post as you did mine,very informative i must say,i/we do have our reservations about the wages in NZ,but we keep telling ourselves it is not about the money,if it was we would stay here in our £350k home and live the materialistic existence all brits seem to be so accustomed to.Aus was an option that was given thought but as my job as a heating engineer takes me into places seldom ventured by humans but largely inhabited by things that tend to hurt alot when they bite we had to give it a pass....It does concern me the low wages NZ offers but if i had not pushed myself here to achieve and make something of myself carreer wise i could have easily been one of those in the uk on the min wage and hope that my drive will push us forward in NZ, might i add the min wage here is appauling and i struggle to understand how some folk here who work hard in un skilled occupations can afford to live.We do live out in the sticks in the uk in the hills of derbyshire so we are not looking for husstle&bustle,shopping malls etc so it would not be a shock not to have them as we never really venture into stockport or manchester,it always seems when we do rarely venture down we are gasping for air until we get back to the green hills.
> As for when we leave here im pretty sure there wont be any feelings of regret or a feeling of being unable to fit back into what we have left behind again,we feel as though we do not fit in here now as resident uk nationals,if you have been left the uk for 13 years you will be astounded by how much it has changed for the worst,visual open corruption in parliment,and yes it has always been there but to now be openly corrupt with the view of the openess being a form of honesty just stinks,the welfare sysytem here is great if you are on it and the scams available if you know how to twist this system are astounding also very very annoying if you happen to be the one footing the ever increasing tax bills,then immigration,a new ruling brought into effect from the idiots in Brussels that run the uk says that as from the end of May this year any person from within the EU can enter the uk and claim housing benefit/job seekers allowance etc etc,whilst me who has lived here since birth,worked for the last 26 years paying my taxes cannot claim....Common sense has been lost in the UK,human rights has devastated our social system and freedom of speech is a double edges sword that is only tolerated if you happen to be from outside the UK and happen to be venting hatred towards britain.
> So miss this place we shall not,after all,the UK has banned the nursery rhyme dating back to 1761,ba ba black sheep as it is racist,bans the word blackboard from schools and removes the gollywog off jam jars as offensive,and bans under the guise of inciting racial hatred the door to door delivery of chrstian church panflets,Oxfam is no longer allowed to put up a christmas tree as it offends ethnics and christmas lights can no longer be called such when put up by councils in certain areas of the uk as that also offends.It sadly is no longer England,the place our grandparents and their parents gave their lives to protect for our future.You did the right thing getting out whatever your reasons were at the time...Good luck..And as they say with life "Drink it while its fizzy!"


Having lived in several countries I can tell you the points you mention are not unique to England.
Although NZ is a great country it is not utopia & Auckland does have a large Pacific Island & Asian population but there is mass migration all over the world and it does have it's positive aspects also.
NZ also does support others less fortunate with public housing & various benefits
ie: dole, single mum's etc.
Australia currently has a huge problem with asylum seekers which is costing tax payers Millions, this story was published over a year ago & it has escalated since.
Opposition claims cost of housing 4200 asylum seekers has topped $344m | News.com.au

Many countries are now pc & many expressions from the past are taboo. My grandchildren living in Australia at school are not given any religious teaching nor is Easter featured (their parents used to have Easter Hat parades) schools only sell Halal sandwiches all so as not to offend non Christian children!

Not trying to put you off but merely advise that some the things you don't like about the UK, you may find apply in NZ although on a smaller scale.

I think more people are installing central heating than before, we did in 2004 so I would believe there would be opportunities for this.


----------



## blueflamegas

Darla.R said:


> Boy have you got a shock coming to you!
> 
> You say you dislike the immigrants in the UK and feel like a stranger in your own country. And your solution to that is to become an immigrant in another. Do you realise how stupid that sounds and how likely you are to come a cropper with that sort of thinking?
> 
> NZ isn't some little southern hemisphere, scrubbed up, prettier version of Britain. It has all of the same problems though just on a smaller scale.
> 
> It is a small Pacific island nation with a very strong Maori culture, it has more in common with Australia and the far east that it does with the British way of life.
> 
> As for working as a heating engineer. Have you checked to see what sort of jobs are available in NZ? what are your chances of finding work - pretty slim I'd say. New Zealand doesn't "do" heating. People rely on air conditioners (heat pumps) open fires and calor gas heaters to warm their homes. Gas fired central heating is pretty rare and by no means the norm.
> 
> But if you wanted to work as a prison officer you'd stand a far greater chance of finding a job.


I dislike what my government has done to my country with my money they take in taxes taken from me in my wages,my fuel to run my van to earn a wage in the first place to pay my taxes,my food,my clothes,the water i use to flush my *** away with,and i dislike the kind of immigrants that are allowed into my country that are allowed to live freely and permantly here without having to or ever having to put anything back into the system that now supports them in every single way and educates them and their children.

That then openly abuse our democracy, and way of life and our live and let live attitude and are allowed to do so by the powers that be that do decide how much the working persons taxes must go up by to pay for this gift bestowed upon us without vote or reason,i doubt you have really come across true social opression where as i do quote i feel as though i am a stranger in my own country,not from immigrants with money with a trade and skills to offer like offered to build on OZ/NZ shortfalls that will in the future enable OZ/NZ be an economicaly upstanding developed nation to prosper in years to come.

You see me being an immigrant in NZ is so far apart from immigrants in the uk that if you knew the difference you would not even made the comment...so now who is stupid,touche !

From a geographical point of view i am fully aware of NZ current location in the southern hemisphere,and i am also well aware of the Maori culture,why shouldnt there be,its their home also people are people,im well travelled around the world and have seen plenty so im not expecting my neighbors to mow my lawns or have my tea ready when i get home to hand it over the fence.

Im a heating engineer by college standards,i put myself through training as a mature student after spending many years working in all trades from making canal boats/fabricating/welding etc to car spraying and panel beating,so if NZ does not have wet central heating installed in as many homes as per percentage as the UK does(which i was aware of already)im pretty sure with my ablity to adapt/embrace i will manage to alter the skills i have to offer to suit the needs of my new home or shall i say prospective new home as i am a realist,and with knowing that the UK has one of the most easily accessible immigration systems in the developed world to people that have nothing whatsoever to offer im pretty sure i have a pretty good reason to want out ! its my right !

As for being a prison officer,why should i want to do a thankless job like that,i will leave that to those of us fortunate enough to have the patience and heart to try and alter the thoughts and actions of those less fortunate than you or i ! PEACE !


----------



## topcat83

blueflamegas said:


> I dislike what my government has done to my country with my money they take in taxes taken from me in my wages,my fuel to run my van to earn a wage in the first place to pay my taxes,my food,my clothes,the water i use to flush my *** away with,and i dislike the kind of immigrants that are allowed into my country that are allowed to live freely and permantly here without having to or ever having to put anything back into the system that now supports them in every single way and educates them and their children.
> 
> That then openly abuse our democracy, and way of life and our live and let live attitude and are allowed to do so by the powers that be that do decide how much the working persons taxes must go up by to pay for this gift bestowed upon us without vote or reason,i doubt you have really come across true social opression where as i do quote i feel as though i am a stranger in my own country,not from immigrants with money with a trade and skills to offer like offered to build on OZ/NZ shortfalls that will in the future enable OZ/NZ be an economicaly upstanding developed nation to prosper in years to come.
> 
> You see me being an immigrant in NZ is so far apart from immigrants in the uk that if you knew the difference you would not even made the comment...so now who is stupid,touche !
> 
> From a geographical point of view i am fully aware of NZ current location in the southern hemisphere,and i am also well aware of the Maori culture,why shouldnt there be,its their home also people are people,im well travelled around the world and have seen plenty so im not expecting my neighbors to mow my lawns or have my tea ready when i get home to hand it over the fence.
> 
> Im a heating engineer by college standards,i put myself through training as a mature student after spending many years working in all trades from making canal boats/fabricating/welding etc to car spraying and panel beating,so if NZ does not have wet central heating installed in as many homes as per percentage as the UK does(which i was aware of already)im pretty sure with my ablity to adapt/embrace i will manage to alter the skills i have to offer to suit the needs of my new home or shall i say prospective new home as i am a realist,and with knowing that the UK has one of the most easily accessible immigration systems in the developed world to people that have nothing whatsoever to offer im pretty sure i have a pretty good reason to want out ! its my right !
> 
> As for being a prison officer,why should i want to do a thankless job like that,i will leave that to those of us fortunate enough to have the patience and heart to try and alter the thoughts and actions of those less fortunate than you or i ! PEACE !


blueflamegas - I appreciate that you don't like what has happened in the UK - certainly some of the points you mention are some of the ones we left for. BUT they were not the only ones. We had many other reasons, including wanting to make a good life in a place that was different to the UK - both the old one we remembered from our childhood, and the new. And don't expect NZ to be utopia - it has many of the same issues that you mention, albeit on a smaller scale. In fact, in many ways Auckland reminds me of London. 

Also be very aware that NZ immigration tries to filter out people who are coming to NZ for negative reasons, and who seem to be 'running away' from their own country. They want people who want to come to NZ for itself, and all the New Zealand things it can offer. If you come over here bitter, you may well find your problems follow you. 

I'd ask you to be careful of your language too - Ta!


----------



## blueflamegas

topcat83 said:


> blueflamegas - I appreciate that you don't like what has happened in the UK - certainly some of the points you mention are some of the ones we left for. BUT they were not the only ones. We had many other reasons, including wanting to make a good life in a place that was different to the UK - both the old one we remembered from our childhood, and the new. And don't expect NZ to be utopia - it has many of the same issues that you mention, albeit on a smaller scale. In fact, in many ways Auckland reminds me of London.
> 
> Also be very aware that NZ immigration tries to filter out people who are coming to NZ for negative reasons, and who seem to be 'running away' from their own country. They want people who want to come to NZ for itself, and all the New Zealand things it can offer. If you come over here bitter, you may well find your problems follow you.
> 
> I'd ask you to be careful of your language too - Ta!



I am purely giving my views on the UK and fully understand that NZ has its own problems,i too agree that Auckland resembles a large city from the UK,it is for that reason i would not want to settle there nor in its suberbs.

Please read my other posts to undertand that i do not expect things to be a land of milk and honey,and realise that i will have to work very hard and adapt/embrace other cultures other ways of doing things.

Could you please explain why me wanting to leave the UK and come to NZ could be deemed as negative,i am pretty sure if you asked any person who has left the UK their own reasons for leaving like yourself your reasons are as you said the same as mine ,and of course i am bitter,i have every right to be,the UK is in a mess,if it wasnt NZ would have a massive skill shortage far exceeding any it has had before.

It is human nature to want to better ones self,have a better life,hence the mass influx to the UK of what can only be deemed on the whole as dead wood,unlike NZ that does have a system set in place to vet prospective entrants and only allow them in if they have something beneficial to offer,that is one of the reasons we chose NZ,a feeling that you were in a place that cares who comes in and wants to protect its shores,we drove 4000 miles when we visited NZ and can only describe the sights and the adventure as wonderful and inspiring,a beautiful place,and we did realise how much it did have to offer.

We wont be coming over there bitter,we will be coming there full of drive and ambition,rose tinted glasses in the drawer and a positive attitude.


----------



## topcat83

blueflamegas said:


> I am purely giving my views on the UK and fully understand that NZ has its own problems,i too agree that Auckland resembles a large city from the UK,it is for that reason i would not want to settle there nor in its suberbs.
> 
> Please read my other posts to undertand that i do not expect things to be a land of milk and honey,and realise that i will have to work very hard and adapt/embrace other cultures other ways of doing things.
> 
> Could you please explain why me wanting to leave the UK and come to NZ could be deemed as negative,i am pretty sure if you asked any person who has left the UK their own reasons for leaving like yourself your reasons are as you said the same as mine ,and of course i am bitter,i have every right to be,the UK is in a mess,if it wasnt NZ would have a massive skill shortage far exceeding any it has had before.
> 
> It is human nature to want to better ones self,have a better life,hence the mass influx to the UK of what can only be deemed on the whole as dead wood,unlike NZ that does have a system set in place to vet prospective entrants and only allow them in if they have something beneficial to offer,that is one of the reasons we chose NZ,a feeling that you were in a place that cares who comes in and wants to protect its shores,we drove 4000 miles when we visited NZ and can only describe the sights and the adventure as wonderful and inspiring,a beautiful place,and we did realise how much it did have to offer.
> 
> We wont be coming over there bitter,we will be coming there full of drive and ambition,rose tinted glasses in the drawer and a positive attitude.


I was worried that your last post was all about reasons to leave the UK, not about reasons to come to NZ. So if you have positive reasons for coming here - that's good. If/when you get to the interview stage of your application, I'd recommend avoiding at all costs having a whinge about the UK. NZ immigration in particular are looking at the positive things that made people choose NZ, not the negative things that made them choose to leave their own country.


----------



## Mr Mink

*light wick, stand back*

after a very positive post at the start which was a very good summary of the "differences" between Oz and NZ so to speak this seems to have got somewhat more heated and personal - and I must admit that it is sometimes difficult to tell the difference between "escaping from it etc etc" and getting back to how it used to be, and perhaps some intolerance perhaps. As a Kiwi who left NZ at 28, then ended up living in Oz for 31 yrs (but moving back there at age 60 in 2012) it very much brings to mind the standard epithet in the Antipodes about "whinging Poms". Glad to know it is still true (this is not intended as an adverse or personal comment on either poster so do not prolong the flames thanks!). I am sure Aussies and Kiwis whinge about things o'seas so I maybe should not generalise so about folks from the northern hemisphere - in Oz/NZ case maybe its a bit like getting back at your parents after you have left home...

My mum and sister live in NZ, my brother on the Gold Coast. The natural environment in NZ tops the brown land of Oz but weighing that up against a warmer climate and economic opportunity (Oz wins) it is a difficult choice to make for a new migrant, partic. those with a young family as so many here appear to be. Compared to the UK I think either country would likely be a good choice depending on your own particular criteria for what makes "the good life" in terms of lifestyle. I will be on a very comfortable NSW government defined benefit pension and that is rather different from a young tradesperson/s with a family who is still making their way in life so to speak.


----------



## Mr Mink

in case you are confused, I realise my profile has the flags/origins around the wrong way - born in NZ, still in Oz but soon back to NZ


----------



## blueflamegas

topcat83 said:


> I was worried that your last post was all about reasons to leave the UK, not about reasons to come to NZ. So if you have positive reasons for coming here - that's good. If/when you get to the interview stage of your application, I'd recommend avoiding at all costs having a whinge about the UK. NZ immigration in particular are looking at the positive things that made people choose NZ, not the negative things that made them choose to leave their own country.


Fair enough TC,and thanks for your input and views which i take on board,i suppose i can diverge a little in my own posts as quite rightly pointed out by Light wick,stand back and its easy to diverge when people add their own comments.

No offence taken and none meant.


----------



## timb0

I've lived in NZ and in the UK and most of my close family are Kiwis - I'm a fan of NZ and feel very much at home there (probably chat to someone there everyday) but the main differences seemed to me that NZ has a much lower population density which gives a real feeling of space but equally outside of Auckland means a lot of the noise and activity you get in the UK is at a much lower level. In some ways that is lovely but I know quite a few Kiwis here and UK citizens who have returned who find it too quiet. NZ's got a better climate than the UK and is naturally beautiful especially in the South - the architecture in the UK is far more interesting - but I find that Kiwi knack for spotting opportunities and improvising to be brilliant. I would have though as a heating engineer you would do a roaring trade in installing heat pumps when you've learnt the ropes.


----------



## topcat83

blueflamegas said:


> Fair enough TC,and thanks for your input and views which i take on board,i suppose i can diverge a little in my own posts as quite rightly pointed out by Light wick,stand back and its easy to diverge when people add their own comments.
> 
> No offence taken and none meant.


None taken - we all need to let off steam sometimes!


----------



## Darla.R

timb0 said:


> I've lived in NZ and in the UK and most of my close family are Kiwis - I'm a fan of NZ and feel very much at home there (probably chat to someone there everyday) but the main differences seemed to me that NZ has a much lower population density which gives a real feeling of space but equally outside of Auckland means a lot of the noise and activity you get in the UK is at a much lower level. In some ways that is lovely but I know quite a few Kiwis here and UK citizens who have returned who find it too quiet. NZ's got a better climate than the UK and is naturally beautiful especially in the South - the architecture in the UK is far more interesting - but I find that Kiwi knack for spotting opportunities and improvising to be brilliant. I would have though as a heating engineer you would do a roaring trade in installing heat pumps when you've learnt the ropes.


Don't you have to be a NZ qualified electrician to do that?


----------



## timb0

That's a good question in the uk heat
Pumps seem to need a lot of external pipework laid which wouldn- not sure about nz - maybe someone else knows


----------



## Darla.R

Perhaps in New Zealand they get a plumber to do the installation and an electrician to do the connection?


----------



## topcat83

Darla.R said:


> Perhaps in New Zealand they get a plumber to do the installation and an electrician to do the connection?


We've had two heat pumps fitted, and it was just one guy each time. I assume they give you all the training and qualifications you need when you go to Heat Pump School!


----------



## timb0

I want to go to heat pump school now - sounds like a brilliant job - my neice had one put in to her house and I was really impressed with it


----------



## kiwigser

timb0 said:


> I want to go to heat pump school now - sounds like a brilliant job - my neice had one put in to her house and I was really impressed with it


Not sure if you serious or not but look at 

e-tec Courses


----------



## topcat83

kiwigser said:


> Not sure if you serious or not but look at
> 
> e-tec Courses


Might point my son towards it


----------



## dawnclaremaddox

topcat83 said:


> Might point my son towards it


Topcat, my son is 22 and has another year to go before he qualifies as an electrician. When he has finished, can he come on over to NZ under us and train further to NZ standards and then the idea is that he will stay. Is this possible? Or does he have to have so many years experience before he can come? Which will then mean he will have to apply on his own.


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## topcat83

dawnclaremaddox said:


> Topcat, my son is 22 and has another year to go before he qualifies as an electrician. When he has finished, can he come on over to NZ under us and train further to NZ standards and then the idea is that he will stay. Is this possible? Or does he have to have so many years experience before he can come? Which will then mean he will have to apply on his own.


So he's still training? Put him on your application as a dependent and get him his permanent residents visa _now_ if you can. It will save a load of hassle later.


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## Darla.R

timb0 said:


> I want to go to heat pump school now - sounds like a brilliant job - my neice had one put in to her house and I was really impressed with it


I hear you can't get them for love nor money right now, most of the stock has been allocated to people in Christchurch to see them through the winter because their chimneys have been damaged. There'll be lots of work going down that way very soon.


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## kiwigser

Darla.R said:


> I hear you can't get them for love nor money right now, most of the stock has been allocated to people in Christchurch to see them through the winter because their chimneys have been damaged. There'll be lots of work going down that way very soon.


Not sure if this true or not: see
Fears heating won't be fixed before winter | Stuff.co.nz

But they are still advertised in Auckland with discounts, so if you want one they are still available, it seems. Any way this going to be a short term thing. Heat pumps are the future for heating.


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## timb0

Definitely the future - I've been doing what I do for about thirty years now so no changes of career for me !


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## dawnclaremaddox

topcat83 said:


> So he's still training? Put him on your application as a dependent and get him his permanent residents visa _now_ if you can. It will save a load of hassle later.


Hubby and will hopefully be there about June time, our son and daughter are both still at college and they both want to finish their courses. Daughter will be going to Australia, she already spent 9 months going round OZ between 2009-10, so now is saving for her trip in March 2012 for 3 months then will come to NZ afterwards. She was looking to get working holiday visa to see NZ, so she can decide later whether it's OZ or NZ. Son on the other hand is a bit unsure and can't make a decision at this moment in time, so he will have to wait a year or two before he makes a commitment.


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## topcat83

dawnclaremaddox said:


> Hubby and will hopefully be there about June time, our son and daughter are both still at college and they both want to finish their courses. Daughter will be going to Australia, she already spent 9 months going round OZ between 2009-10, so now is saving for her trip in March 2012 for 3 months then will come to NZ afterwards. She was looking to get working holiday visa to see NZ, so she can decide later whether it's OZ or NZ. Son on the other hand is a bit unsure and can't make a decision at this moment in time, so he will have to wait a year or two before he makes a commitment.


But even so - get your sons visa now, if you can, as part of the whole family's immigration. My son was the same - and has in fact only been over here for 2 'holidays'. But he has his permanent residents visa which means that he can now come over to live whenever he wants in the future. It will obviously mean some extra cost now for your sons application - but this may be cheaper and more definite for him than if he leaves it until he has to apply in his own right.


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