# moving from uk



## torre2014

Hi guys and girls

Im planning a move to torrevieja in 12 months time ive been holidaying there for around 10 years , and have decided to try and make a life over there , werw a family of 4 including 2 children aged 4 and 7 

Im really stuck on the budgeting side of the move and a couple other issues

I.e public schooling for the children how too and if theres fees etc , does rent include the water elec etc? If not what else can i axpect to pay on top of rent?

Initially coming for 3 months , ill be coming as a self employed builder , and will be taking cards around EVERY ex pat bar and club , thanms in advance for any info


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## jojo

torre2014 said:


> Hi guys and girls
> 
> Im planning a move to torrevieja in 12 months time ive been holidaying there for around 10 years , and have decided to try and make a life over there , werw a family of 4 including 2 children aged 4 and 7
> 
> Im really stuck on the budgeting side of the move and a couple other issues
> 
> I.e public schooling for the children how too and if theres fees etc , does rent include the water elec etc? If not what else can i axpect to pay on top of rent?
> 
> Initially coming for 3 months , ill be coming as a self employed builder , and will be taking cards around EVERY ex pat bar and club , thanms in advance for any info



I'm not sure that Spain needs anymore builders right now. The recession caused the property market to crash in Spain and there are so many half built properties and unemployed builders now and they're desperate for work. Also, to make it even more difficult, if you intended to be self employed, you'd have to pay autonomo every month (regardless of income) just so that you could have healthcare cover.

Apart from that, your other questions;

State schools are free, altho you do have to buy books and equipment, which can be around 600€ a year

Rent generally doesnt cover utilities, so water and electricity are on top - but not always, it depends on the agreement. 

Jo xxxx


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## torre2014

Hi jo and thanks for your reply 

I would be taking enough money to cover me for the 3 months , but i would take any jobs to be honest just to make it happen , and do my bits of building on the side or whatever. 

About the add ons to the rent on average how much is it to run a 2 bed townhouse or villa? Ie gas elec?

Do you think there is enough call for a british builder who will mainly serve britsh expats? I came back from thete 3 days ago and spoke to a british lady who has lived there for 15 years and has 2 small children and she said she thinks theres a big shout for the british serving the british? 

Thanms for your reply 

do u live in the vacinity?


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## jojo

torre2014 said:


> Hi jo and thanks for your reply
> 
> I would be taking enough money to cover me for the 3 months , but i would take any jobs to be honest just to make it happen , and do my bits of building on the side or whatever.
> 
> About the add ons to the rent on average how much is it to run a 2 bed townhouse or villa? Ie gas elec?
> 
> Do you think there is enough call for a british builder who will mainly serve britsh expats? I came back from thete 3 days ago and spoke to a british lady who has lived there for 15 years and has 2 small children and she said she thinks theres a big shout for the british serving the british?
> 
> Thanms for your reply
> 
> do u live in the vacinity?



I really dont see the need for a british builder anywhere in Spain, not only are there millions there already (and other nationalities who work for a lot less - if they can get it), but a fair few expats have returned to the UK due to the recession. Rightly or wrongly, most expats prefer to use local, Spanish tradesmen. I really dont recommend it and I think you'd be lucky to earn enough to cover your autonomo costs, which start low, but after a period of time rise to 260€ a month excluding tax.

To become a resident in Spain, you will need to show that you have enough income to cover you and your family - roughly around 600€ a month per person and that you have healthcare covered. And that really needs to be done within the first 90 days. 

Spain has changed since the recession. They're now alot stricter on rules and regulations. 

Jo xxx


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## xabiaxica

torre2014 said:


> Hi jo and thanks for your reply
> 
> I would be taking enough money to cover me for the 3 months , but i would take any jobs to be honest just to make it happen , and do my bits of building on the side or whatever.
> 
> About the add ons to the rent on average how much is it to run a 2 bed townhouse or villa? Ie gas elec?
> 
> Do you think there is enough call for a british builder who will mainly serve britsh expats? I came back from thete 3 days ago and spoke to a british lady who has lived there for 15 years and has 2 small children and she said she thinks theres a big shout for the british serving the british?
> 
> Thanms for your reply
> 
> do u live in the vacinity?


I live in an area with quite a big expat population - & yes there are British tradesmen who work - but they have all been here a long time & have built themselves a reputation - anyone new pitching up is highly unlikely to get work tbh

if it was just you, I'd say take the 3 months if you have nothing to give up in the UK - but make sure you have your fare back

but with children?


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## Pesky Wesky

torre2014 said:


> Hi jo and thanks for your reply
> 
> I would be taking enough money to cover me for the 3 months , but i would take any jobs to be honest just to make it happen , and do my bits of building on the side or whatever.
> 
> About the add ons to the rent on average how much is it to run a 2 bed townhouse or villa? Ie gas elec?
> 
> Do you think there is enough call for a british builder who will mainly serve britsh expats? I came back from thete 3 days ago and spoke to a british lady who has lived there for 15 years and has 2 small children and she said she thinks theres a big shout for the british serving the british?
> 
> Thanms for your reply
> 
> do u live in the vacinity?


Around here I would be surprised if anyone could make a real decent legal living from building work, but I am a long way from the coast. The one guy I know is Spanish and struggles. His brother is a site manager and hasn't worked in 4 maybe 5 years now.
Just in case anyone thinks we're making it up, here's a chart talking about unemployment in the EU from April 2014. I think you'll find that out of the "top ten" seven are Spanish and leading unemployment in Europe today is Andalucia.








A Brit serving the Brits sounds great, but it's a limited market so when the shiit hits the fan, as it did in 2008, people's economics change and many end up going back or tightening belts. 
On the bright side your children are the right ages to start state school and pick up another language without too many difficulties. However, as pointed out, you do have to buy the books and materials and it's not cheap and that's for every year.
You could come over on, as Jojo says, a fact finding mission, (or 2 or 3 better) leaving the kids at home if possible. Go round all the builder's merchants, phone up people in the ad mags, look at local yellow pages etc and talk to the people who are working in the trade to see what they say. Is work available, is it steady, what are the rates, how much are materials etc??? The only way you're going to find out after all is by seeing for yourself.
Could you not explore the possibility of moving within the UK? Spain with its economic problems, the unemployment, cuts in education and services is not the best place to be starting out right now, unless you want to start a debt recovering service.


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## torre2014

Thanks for the reply 

How do you think the best way of having a life in spain is? 

You have made some good points that ill look into , thanks

my father in law owns a holiday home i could use so i dont think accomadation would be a problem i think earning money would be the problem?

People are struggeling in the uk but id rather struggle in the sunshine 

I have been coming to torre for 10 years and love the place , i would have nie's in place for my family which helps to get a job 

how does it work?

I know i apply through the local police station or town hall but is there certain restrictions to getting one? And info on getting a bank account would be great.

Thanks again


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## jojo

torre2014 said:


> Thanks for the reply
> 
> How do you think the best way of having a life in spain is?
> 
> You have made some good points that ill look into , thanks
> 
> my father in law owns a holiday home i could use so i dont think accomadation would be a problem i think earning money would be the problem?
> 
> People are struggeling in the uk but id rather struggle in the sunshine
> 
> I have been coming to torre for 10 years and love the place , i would have nie's in place for my family which helps to get a job
> 
> how does it work?
> 
> I know i apply through the local police station or town hall but is there certain restrictions to getting one? And info on getting a bank account would be great.
> 
> Thanks again


you can get a temporary NIE from the local police station, but after 3 months it would need to be renewed and you'd need a recidencia. For that you need to have proof of income and that you have healthcare in place. So you would need to see a Gestoria to become autonomo. Once thats in place, you can actually work should you find any. 

I understand what you're saying about the sunshine, but the winters in Spain are cold, wet and windy and of course, unlike the UK, there are no welfare benefits or help with housing..... or anything else if you run out of work and/or money.

Another possible issue could be that the way houses are built in Spain isnt like the UK, they use an "H" frame and blocks and of course the materials, climate and terrain are very different. 

All very negative and I'm sorry if thats how it sounds, but its best to look at this from all angles, so that you are prepared

Jo xxx


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## xabiaxica

torre2014 said:


> Thanks for the reply
> 
> How do you think the best way of having a life in spain is?
> 
> You have made some good points that ill look into , thanks
> 
> my father in law owns a holiday home i could use so i dont think accomadation would be a problem i think earning money would be the problem?
> 
> People are struggeling in the uk but id rather struggle in the sunshine
> 
> I have been coming to torre for 10 years and love the place , i would have nie's in place for my family which helps to get a job
> 
> how does it work?
> 
> I know i apply through the local police station or town hall but is there certain restrictions to getting one? And info on getting a bank account would be great.
> 
> Thanks again


you would need to register as resident & for that you have to prove that you have sufficient income & healthcare provision in place

'sufficient income' in most _extranjerías_ (where you register) is around 600€ per person per month &/or 6000€ per person - in a Spanish bank account


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## Pesky Wesky

torre2014 said:


> Thanks for the reply
> 
> How do you think the best way of having a life in spain is?
> 
> You have made some good points that ill look into , thanks
> 
> my father in law owns a holiday home i could use so i dont think accomadation would be a problem i think earning money would be the problem?
> 
> People are struggeling in the uk but id rather struggle in the sunshine
> 
> I have been coming to torre for 10 years and love the place , i would have nie's in place for my family which helps to get a job
> 
> how does it work?
> 
> I know i apply through the local police station or town hall but is there certain restrictions to getting one? And info on getting a bank account would be great.
> 
> Thanks again


Unfortunately the best way right now is to have a secure pension.
I have a 20 year old daughter in her 3rd year at university now. I can only hope to whoever is up there that things are better when she finishes in 2016. And maybe things will have brightened up by then 
Seriously, the best advice I can give you, (without out any inside knowledge of the Brit building trade, don't forget) is to come here and speak to _several_ people in _different_ areas of the trade and _different_ towns here and take it from there.
Also look at the FAQ's here to find a mountain of info about paperwork, education, cars, buying/ renting houses, tax etcetc. It will take you days to get through it.


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## torre2014

i think its just the work in general would be a problem , i knew i should of persued a career in i.t!

Is there work around? In any sector? Would a normal "9-5" job pay the bills? I understand the average wage in spain for bar work , waiter etc is around 1300 euros a month is that about right?


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## xabiaxica

torre2014 said:


> i think its just the work in general would be a problem , i knew i should of persued a career in i.t!
> 
> Is there work around? In any sector? Would a normal "9-5" job pay the bills? I understand the average wage in spain for bar work , waiter etc is around 1300 euros a month is that about right?


you'd be working a lot of hours a week to make that a month at 5€ an hour - cos that's pretty much all you'd get as a waiter or behind a bar


you'd also be very lucky to get a contracted job (if indeed you got a job ) - & without that contract there's no registering as resident, & no healthcare - apart from no job security, of course


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## Pesky Wesky

You might find this thread interesting
http://www.expatforum.com/expats/spain-expat-forum-expats-living-spain/551473-moving-back-spain.html


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## jojo

torre2014 said:


> i think its just the work in general would be a problem , i knew i should of persued a career in i.t!
> 
> Is there work around? In any sector? Would a normal "9-5" job pay the bills? I understand the average wage in spain for bar work , waiter etc is around 1300 euros a month is that about right?



When I worked full time as a waitress, 5 days a week, 8am til 6pm, I earnt, after stoppages 400€ a month - admittedly it was for a friend, but thats all they could afford. And even then, they went bust

Jo xxx


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## Lynn R

torre2014 said:


> i think its just the work in general would be a problem , i knew i should of persued a career in i.t!
> 
> Is there work around? In any sector? Would a normal "9-5" job pay the bills? I understand the average wage in spain for bar work , waiter etc is around 1300 euros a month is that about right?


If there's any work around, in any sector, there are many hundreds of Spaniards chasing every vacancy, and a great many of those who still have jobs have had their wages savagely cut. Read this, for example:-

Wage cuts make Spain's recovery a long, painful path | Reuters


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## mrypg9

Most British people I know use only Spanish tradesmen. I wouldn't consider using a British worker. We are living in Spain, after all. Sadly, British tradesmen have a poor reputation here.

The best way to live in Spain is as PW says to be retired with a good income. Struggling in the sun is no fun when you have children to consider and there is no Child Benefit, no Tax Credit, no Housing Benefit. 

Visiting a place on holiday bears no resemblance to living somewhere. If you speak no Spanish your client base will be very limited. Unemployment on the C d S is currently at 34%. You wouldn't notice that on holiday!
Working cash in hand isillegal and theauthorities are clamping down on this kind of activity.


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## mrypg9

torre2014 said:


> i think its just the work in general would be a problem , i knew i should of persued a career in i.t!
> 
> Is there work around? In any sector? Would a normal "9-5" job pay the bills? I understand the average wage in spain for bar work , waiter etc is around 1300 euros a month is that about right?


There are few 9 to 5 jobs. Working hours in Spain aren't like those in the UK. You might you start at 8 am, work until 2pm then again from 4 or 5 pm to 8 pm and for low pay compared to the UK.

Bar work is very poorly paid and a command of Spanish is essential.

In a nutshell, there is very little work and seven million Spaniards are in the queue ahead of you.


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## DunWorkin

You say you would rather work in the sunshine. Even if you found work as a builder, you might regret that in a summer like the current one. 

The temperatures have been over 30C every day for nearly 3 months here on the Costa Blanca. Doing any manual work in those temperatures is not just unpleasant but dangerous. Two builders in Alicante died from working in the heat of the day.


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## wilsman77

torre2014 said:


> Hi guys and girls
> 
> Im planning a move to torrevieja in 12 months time ive been holidaying there for around 10 years , and have decided to try and make a life over there , werw a family of 4 including 2 children aged 4 and 7
> 
> Im really stuck on the budgeting side of the move and a couple other issues
> 
> I.e public schooling for the children how too and if theres fees etc , does rent include the water elec etc? If not what else can i axpect to pay on top of rent?
> 
> Initially coming for 3 months , ill be coming as a self employed builder , and will be taking cards around EVERY ex pat bar and club , thanms in advance for any info


Torre, i have just bought a plave in Cabo, its close to Torre. All the reports coming out of Spain at the moment are possitive reguarding building activity so dont let this negative lot put you off. i think that most of the people on here are a bit bitter due probably to the torrid time they have had since 2008 (cant blame them) but if you ask me this is probably the best time to be buying moving to Spain as it begind to pick up again. GL.


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## Pesky Wesky

wilsman77 said:


> Torre, i have just bought a plave in Cabo, its close to Torre. All the reports coming out of Spain at the moment are possitive reguarding building activity so dont let this negative lot put you off. i think that most of the people on here are a bit bitter due probably to the torrid time they have had since 2008 (cant blame them) but if you ask me this is probably the best time to be buying moving to Spain as it begind to pick up again. GL.


So glad you have good news about the building trade and Spanish economy!
I posted a chart about the unemployment situation which showed Andalucia at the top of the list in Europe. Do you have some different info?
Lynn R posted a really good article about Spain, full of information about real people in real situations like


> _
> Carmen Collado has laundered hospital linen in Madrid for 11 years. Now, almost half her colleagues have been fired and the 61-year-old grandmother is cleaning the same bed sheets, nurses' scrubs and towels as before for half the pay._


Has El País published anything recently retracting this information?

I'm just wondering if you have moved here with children and are looking for work like the OP, Torre2014 or are your circumstances completely different?

I'm also wondering if you think it's a responsible attitude to tell people looking for work and with children to come to a country like Spain now?

Not surprisingly, most of us reject the label negative and prefer pragmatic. I think this thread might give you some back ground info as to where we're coming from.
http://www.expatforum.com/expats/la-tasca/371025-why-do-we-bother.html

Lastly, if you have anything to add to any of these threads about Torrevieja, it would be most welcome

http://www.expatforum.com/expats/spain-expat-forum-expats-living-spain/79140-torrevieja.html


http://www.expatforum.com/expats/spain-expat-forum-expats-living-spain/155320-torrevieja.html


http://www.expatforum.com/expats/sp...last-but-now-thinking-renting-torrevieja.html


http://www.expatforum.com/expats/sp...ving-spain/260665-torrevieja-horrorvieja.html


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## mrypg9

wilsman77 said:


> Torre, i have just bought a plave in Cabo, its close to Torre. All the reports coming out of Spain at the moment are possitive reguarding building activity so dont let this negative lot put you off. i think that most of the people on here are a bit bitter due probably to the torrid time they have had since 2008 (cant blame them) but if you ask me this is probably the best time to be buying moving to Spain as it begind to pick up again. GL.


You've been here five minutes and know all there is to know about the economic situation in Spain and the personal situation of the posters on this Forum..

Nearly all the posters on this Forum, far from being 'bitter', are the lucky ones. Most either have secure jobs or like me are comfortably retired with no money worries. Many have been here for decades.

It's clear that as yet you haven't had time to settle in and get to know the country you have chosen to move to. When you've had more experience, perhaps perfected your Spanish, you may come to realise that advising people to make life-changing moves on the basis of your very short personal experience is neither wise nor kind.


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## xabiaxica

wilsman77 said:


> Torre, i have just bought a plave in Cabo, its close to Torre. All the reports coming out of Spain at the moment are possitive reguarding building activity so dont let this negative lot put you off. i think that most of the people on here are a bit bitter due probably to the torrid time they have had since 2008 (cant blame them) but if you ask me this is probably the best time to be buying moving to Spain as it begind to pick up again. GL.


do you actually live in Spain?


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## DunWorkin

wilsman77 said:


> Torre, i have just bought a place in Cabo, its close to Torre. All the reports coming out of Spain at the moment are possitive reguarding building activity so dont let this negative lot put you off. i think that most of the people on here are a bit bitter due probably to the torrid time they have had since 2008 (cant blame them) but if you ask me this is probably the best time to be buying moving to Spain as it begins to pick up again. GL.


Can you provide a link to "All the reports coming out of Spain at the moment are possitive reguarding (sic) building activity". I have not heard or read any such reports. In fact, exactly the opposite.

I have lived here in the Alicante region for 10 years. I have no reason to be bitter or to give 'negative' advice to people just for the sake of it. 

I post here because I don't want people, especially those with young children, to come to Spain believing that everything will work out when, in fact, they are likely to be heading for disappointment at best and tragedy at worst.


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## tarot650

mrypg9 said:


> You've been here five minutes and know all there is to know about the economic situation in Spain and the personal situation of the posters on this Forum..
> 
> Nearly all the posters on this Forum, far from being 'bitter', are the lucky ones. Most either have secure jobs or like me are comfortably retired with no money worries. Many have been here for decades.
> 
> It's clear that as yet you haven't had time to settle in and get to know the country you have chosen to move to. When you've had more experience, perhaps perfected your Spanish, you may come to realise that advising people to make life-changing moves on the basis of your very short personal experience is neither wise nor kind.


For once Mary I am in total agreement.Wise words indeed.Truthfully I know Spanish builders now that would give anything to be back in the building trade but they can't get the work and a few of them are now waiting for the olive picking to earn a few euros..Just to say if you are having to go around the expat bars and venues giving cards out it just shows the state of the building trade at times I give negative posts but one thing is for sure I will tell the bloody truth.For any jobing builder coming here one might make it and ten won't and one thing is for sure I am certainly not bitter have lived here 20years I don't work don't have to work and certainly don't want to work so I have certainly no worries about anybody taking my job.the times when they were crying out for builders are long gone and it really is sad to see.Would I come to Spain now only if I could finance myself without work as it's a very enjoyable country to live in and we have met some remarkable people and holidays in Spain to living here are a completely different ballgame.


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## Dunpleecin

Good luck with the move. Anything I would say has been covered except I think that, if it were me, I would go myself for 3 months to see the work situation for real before uprooting family and kids. If it doesn't work out in that three months (and I suspect that's all it will take for you to analyse the situation) then you can go back knowing that you haven't made a massive mistake.


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## wilsman77

interesting comments. So let me get this straight, you are all happy you all love Spain no doubt your propetty has doubled in price blah blah blah, and yet you are all advising agaginst anyone commimg to Country........ OMG in which case i have made a masive mistake buying a brand new Euro 70K house a few minutes from the beech. Perhaps its because you are all just a bit tired would i be right in thinking most of you are 65's and over? 
The UK is booming but not if you work in the Public Sector or in numerous Northern Towns perhaps Torre falls into one of those categories. The fact is that Spain property sales and the Economy is improving and i think that dashing peoples hopes and dreams because you have a friend who has been made redundant from a Hospital in Spain is a very polar view. We can all quote horror stories from our perspective Countrys of residence its funny how you fail to evevr mention anything possitive about the recovery in Spain and just decide to gang up on people that do.


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## Pesky Wesky

wilsman77 said:


> interesting comments. So let me get this straight, you are all happy you all love Spain no doubt your propetty has doubled in price blah blah blah, and yet you are all advising agaginst anyone commimg to Country........ OMG in which case i have made a masive mistake buying a brand new Euro 70K house a few minutes from the beech. Perhaps its because you are all just a bit tired would i be right in thinking most of you are 65's and over?
> The UK is booming but not if you work in the Public Sector or in numerous Northern Towns perhaps Torre falls into one of those categories. The fact is that Spain property sales and the Economy is improving and i think that dashing peoples hopes and dreams because you have a friend who has been made redundant from a Hospital in Spain is a very polar view. We can all quote horror stories from our perspective Countrys of residence its funny how you fail to evevr mention anything possitive about the recovery in Spain and just decide to gang up on people that do.


I'm happy and love Spain, yes, for all its faults. Wouldn't have been living here for all these years if not 
My property probably has doubled in price, but then again I bought in1994. A lot of people have seen their property halved in price though and yes, you might have made a mistake in buying a new house next to the beach near Torrevieja, one of the most exploited areas of Spain, but only you will know at some time in the future.
The economy is improving according to the government which means they are doing things that make the EU happy, but not necessarily Spain. To go back to the article more people out of the nearly 6 million who were unemployed are working - for worse money and, worse timetables, worse conditions, and worse contract stability. So my question is, is that positive? Other questions are
Is it responsible to encourage people to come without first explaining what they are coming to?
Are you living in Spain? 
Are you looking for work? 
Do you have school age children?
Try this paragraph which sums it up


> Household spending, a major pillar for a service-orientated economy like Spain, has shrunk by more than 11 percent since the burst of the property bubble six years ago. While the speed of the contraction is easing, much lower wages mean a return to sustainable growth could take years.


I think you still need to find out about Spain as a country and an economy before you give opinions about it.

BTW what was that about a friend being made redundant from a hospital in Madrid?? I presume you're talking about the article which mentions a woman who HASN'T been made redundant from a hospital in Madrid
If you want my real life circumstances ask about my husband who has had his salary cut three times and hours increased (of course) or about the unemployed architect, the BIL journalist on a reduced timetable now for years, the bar worker working for 3€ an hour who wasn't paid in full last month - need I go on about what I know about??

If you know anything about Spain, please tell us about it, but don't talk about what you obviously know nothing about.
TIA


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## xabiaxica

wilsman77 said:


> interesting comments. So let me get this straight, you are all happy you all love Spain no doubt your propetty has doubled in price blah blah blah, and yet you are all advising agaginst anyone commimg to Country........ OMG in which case i have made a masive mistake buying a brand new Euro 70K house a few minutes from the beech. Perhaps its because you are all just a bit tired would i be right in thinking most of you are 65's and over?
> The UK is booming but not if you work in the Public Sector or in numerous Northern Towns perhaps Torre falls into one of those categories. The fact is that Spain property sales and the Economy is improving and i think that dashing peoples hopes and dreams because you have a friend who has been made redundant from a Hospital in Spain is a very polar view. We can all quote horror stories from our perspective Countrys of residence its funny how you fail to evevr mention anything possitive about the recovery in Spain and just decide to gang up on people that do.


My family & I are happy & love living here

those of us who aren't retired but are working have mostly been here quite some years & have either built up our own businesses or are lucky enough to have work 

property sales might be increasing - but stats show that they are being sold to foreigners who are buying holiday homes - which is actually brilliant for the economy 

yes, unemployment figures have been dropping - but they actually rose again in August, a month which traditionally shows a drop in unemployment

I live in an town with exceptionally low unemployment for Spain & the current situation - yet there is no serious building work happening & most builders are scrabbling around for odd jobs - I know several, English & Spanish - none of them rely on just the building work to support themselves - & none could support a family on what they are making

please - show us a link to these reports that you mention which say that building is increasing


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## snikpoh

wilsman77 said:


> interesting comments. So let me get this straight, you are all happy you all love Spain no doubt your propetty has doubled in price blah blah blah, and yet you are all advising agaginst anyone commimg to Country........ OMG in which case i have made a masive mistake buying a brand new Euro 70K house a few minutes from the beech. Perhaps its because you are all just a bit tired would i be right in thinking most of you are 65's and over?
> The UK is booming but not if you work in the Public Sector or in numerous Northern Towns perhaps Torre falls into one of those categories. The fact is that Spain property sales and the Economy is improving and i think that dashing peoples hopes and dreams because you have a friend who has been made redundant from a Hospital in Spain is a very polar view. We can all quote horror stories from our perspective Countrys of residence its funny how you fail to evevr mention anything possitive about the recovery in Spain and just decide to gang up on people that do.


Oh dear, what a strange view you have of us expats!

I for one have not retired (still in my 50's) yet do not need to work.

My property (properties) have ALL gone down in value.


If you can substantiate your claim that Spain is recovering, and in particular the housing market, then I'm sure that will help.

We try to tell people exactly how it is, from on the ground here in Spain. We see so many believing the 'grass is greener' and then wonder why they have lost all their money or can't get a job. 

It is NOT a good time to be in Spain if you need a job or if you have young children. (And, by-the-way, I have three young children and fully expect them to have to leave Spain to find work!)


----------



## wilsman77

xabiachica said:


> My family & I are happy & love living here
> 
> those of us who aren't retired but are working have mostly been here quite some years & have either built up our own businesses or are lucky enough to have work
> 
> property sales might be increasing - but stats show that they are being sold to foreigners who are buying holiday homes - which is actually brilliant for the economy
> 
> yes, unemployment figures have been dropping - but they actually rose again in August, a month which traditionally shows a drop in unemployment
> 
> I live in an town with exceptionally low unemployment for Spain & the current situation - yet there is no serious building work happening & most builders are scrabbling around for odd jobs - I know several, English & Spanish - none of them rely on just the building work to support themselves - & none could support a family on what they are making
> 
> please - show us a link to these reports that you mention which say that building is increasing


Spanish property market: July home sales reinforce recovery


----------



## Pesky Wesky

wilsman77 said:


> Spanish property market: July home sales reinforce recovery


Have you read that article?
Have you read that article from the point of view of somebody with a family coming to live full time in Spain?


----------



## wilsman77

Pesky Wesky said:


> I'm happy and love Spain, yes, for all its faults. Wouldn't have been living here for all these years if not
> My property probably has doubled in price, but then again I bought in1994. A lot of people have seen their property halved in price though and yes, you might have made a mistake in buying a new house next to the beach near Torrevieja, one of the most exploited areas of Spain, but only you will know at some time in the future.
> The economy is improving according to the government which means they are doing things that make the EU happy, but not necessarily Spain. To go back to the article more people out of the nearly 6 million who were unemployed are working - for worse money and, worse timetables, worse conditions, and worse contract stability. So my question is, is that positive? Other questions are
> Is it responsible to encourage people to come without first explaining what they are coming to?
> Are you living in Spain?
> Are you looking for work?
> Do you have school age children?
> Try this paragraph which sums it up I think you still need to find out about Spain as a country and an economy before you give opinions about it.
> 
> BTW what was that about a friend being made redundant from a hospital in Madrid?? I presume you're talking about the article which mentions a woman who HASN'T been made redundant from a hospital in Madrid
> If you want my real life circumstances ask about my husband who has had his salary cut three times and hours increased (of course) or about the unemployed architect, the BIL journalist on a reduced timetable now for years, the bar worker working for 3€ an hour who wasn't paid in full last month - need I go on about what I know about??
> 
> If you know anything about Spain, please tell us about it, but don't talk about what you obviously know nothing about.
> TIA


cheer up

Europe remains a jobless swamp, despite the Spanish miracle – Telegraph Blogs


----------



## Lynn R

wilsman77 said:


> interesting comments. So let me get this straight, you are all happy you all love Spain no doubt your propetty has doubled in price blah blah blah, and yet you are all advising agaginst anyone commimg to Country........ OMG in which case i have made a masive mistake buying a brand new Euro 70K house a few minutes from the beech. Perhaps its because you are all just a bit tired would i be right in thinking most of you are 65's and over?
> The UK is booming but not if you work in the Public Sector or in numerous Northern Towns perhaps Torre falls into one of those categories. The fact is that Spain property sales and the Economy is improving and i think that dashing peoples hopes and dreams because you have a friend who has been made redundant from a Hospital in Spain is a very polar view. We can all quote horror stories from our perspective Countrys of residence its funny how you fail to evevr mention anything possitive about the recovery in Spain and just decide to gang up on people that do.


Er, exactly why is it, do you think, that a brand new house a few minutes from the beech (sic) can be bought for €70,000? Because the property market here was devastated, leaving a million new builds unsold, which are now having to be unloaded (very slowly) at prices far below what their developers hoped to get for them. Hence the construction industry here in Spain is still only a fraction of the size it was pre-crash. 

I'm 58 by the way. I don't advise everybody not to come to this country or buy property here - but I do, and will continue to, say to anybody who needs to find work in order to be able to live here not to do it. I´ve had a house here for over 11 years and lived here permanently for 8. I knew British people who were working here (precariously, without a work contract if working for somebody else, or self-employed but not paying social security contributions, so in neither case qualifying for health care nor unemployment benefit) and they have all, without exception, had to go back to the UK as work dried up and they couldn't even keep up what was, to be blunt about it, a pretty hand to mouth existence before. Why would I want to encourage anybody else to come here and put themselves in that position, especially if they have children?

My house certainly hasn't doubled in value. If I was lucky, I´d get back what I've spent on it including taxes and improvements. Actually I'm not worried about it because I don't want or need to sell. 

As others have said, this is a wonderful place to live if you are retired with sufficient pension income, early retired with enough money to live on, have a contracted job with a good employer, can work remotely from home either for a company or self-employed (and make enough to pay your taxes and social security contributions) or work elsewhere and base your family here, or maybe a young single person who can get by with a part-time job teaching English. Otherwise, it´s anything but.


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## Pesky Wesky

wilsman77 said:


> cheer up
> 
> Europe remains a jobless swamp, despite the Spanish miracle – Telegraph Blogs


I'm happy enough because, I have work to keep me going, and I'm working and living here legally, (meaning I have healthcare covered and I'd get a low rate of unemployment benefit if I needed it) which is more than I can say for many fellow Brits.
I have a lovely (Spanish) daughter at university and a (Spanish) husband who also has work (3 quarters timetable, salary lowered 3 times since the crisis) and as we are careful with our money we're doing pretty well.
What would make me happier is if people who don't know much about Spain tried to learn something about the place and took an interest in something other than sunshine, like the people who are living around them.
That really would make a difference


----------



## Pesky Wesky

He should try telling Madliz that her house has doubled in value!
(Another forum menber who's been trying to sell her property in Madrid for years)


----------



## wilsman77

Pesky Wesky said:


> Have you read that article?
> Have you read that article from the point of view of somebody with a family coming to live full time in Spain?


Yes i have read the article and yes i am backing up my argument with FACTS. If a Brit wants to try their luck in Spain who has building experience i would say right time right place and GL to them before they know it they could own a nice little house and have a fantastic life. It’s so cheap to live in Spain compared to the UK and once Scotland is sorted out Sterling will probably continue to strengthen against the Euro.


----------



## tarot650

wilsman77 said:


> interesting comments. So let me get this straight, you are all happy you all love Spain no doubt your propetty has doubled in price blah blah blah, and yet you are all advising agaginst anyone commimg to Country........ OMG in which case i have made a masive mistake buying a brand new Euro 70K house a few minutes from the beech. Perhaps its because you are all just a bit tired would i be right in thinking most of you are 65's and over?
> The UK is booming but not if you work in the Public Sector or in numerous Northern Towns perhaps Torre falls into one of those categories. The fact is that Spain property sales and the Economy is improving and i think that dashing peoples hopes and dreams because you have a friend who has been made redundant from a Hospital in Spain is a very polar view. We can all quote horror stories from our perspective Countrys of residence its funny how you fail to evevr mention anything possitive about the recovery in Spain and just decide to gang up on people that do.


It doesn't take Sherlock Holmes to work out that quite a few of us are retired and enjoying a nice life on the fruits of our labour but also that has been pointed out.A few members of this forum do work and have built up a good reputation through years of hard work.I suppose in some respects spain is now paying the penalty for the boom years and unless you were actually here then you can't explain to anybody what it was like.I hope you enjoy your 70K house what a bargain.I hope you are in it for the long term as I can't see the buy and make mega money coming back for a long time.Also I am not trying to put off anybody coming here but the true facts have to be pointed out.I certainly would not beleive anything I read in papers but take it direct from the horses mouth and when I know Spanish builders who are waiting to go olive picking for 4 or 5euros an hour my heart goes out to them but like a few have said to me it puts food on the table.I don't think we will ever get the boom years like we had as you have to take into account there were vast amounts of people getting rid of the Peseta.


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## DaveandLiz

Wow its hot on here today !!!!!


----------



## wilsman77

DaveandLiz said:


> Wow its hot on here today !!!!!


nothing like a bit of lively debate......


----------



## Lynn R

wilsman77 said:


> Yes i have read the article and yes i am backing up my argument with FACTS. If a Brit wants to try their luck in Spain who has building experience i would say right time right place and GL to them before they know it they could own a nice little house and have a fantastic life. It’s so cheap to live in Spain compared to the UK and once Scotland is sorted out Sterling will probably continue to strengthen against the Euro.


What FACTS are they? I haven't seen any. Even studies produced by the Spanish themselves (who probably have more of a vested interest than anybody in talking the situation up) consider that the industry here hasn´t even touched bottom yet (which is a pretty sobering thought).


Bottom May Be Near for Spanish Construction Industry - Spanish Property Insight

I find it cheap to live in Spain compared to the UK, yes, but I don't have to pay social security contributions, feed and clothe children and pay for their school books and supplies, or worry about THEIR future career prospects, never mind my own. If someone hasn't got enough coming in every month life here isn't cheap, it's impossible.


----------



## wilsman77

soulboy said:


> It doesn't take Sherlock Holmes to work out that quite a few of us are retired and enjoying a nice life on the fruits of our labour but also that has been pointed out.A few members of this forum do work and have built up a good reputation through years of hard work.I suppose in some respects spain is now paying the penalty for the boom years and unless you were actually here then you can't explain to anybody what it was like.I hope you enjoy your 70K house what a bargain.I hope you are in it for the long term as I can't see the buy and make mega money coming back for a long time.Also I am not trying to put off anybody coming here but the true facts have to be pointed out.I certainly would not beleive anything I read in papers but take it direct from the horses mouth and when I know Spanish builders who are waiting to go olive picking for 4 or 5euros an hour my heart goes out to them but like a few have said to me it puts food on the table.I don't think we will ever get the boom years like we had as you have to take into account there were vast amounts of people getting rid of the Peseta.


I am in it for the long term. I will only visit a few days a month and not in the cold months thats for sure. I will hopefully semi retire to Cabo at some time in the next 10 years. not interested in becomimg a resident or renting the property just like the area and love a good Theme Park!


----------



## tarot650

wilsman77 said:


> I am in it for the long term. I will only visit a few days a month and not in the cold months thats for sure. I will hopefully semi retire to Cabo at some time in the next 10 years. not interested in becomimg a resident or renting the property just like the area and love a good Theme Park!


Thats nice


----------



## tarot650

wilsman77 said:


> nothing like a bit of lively debate......


whatever turns you on.


----------



## extranjero

wilsman77 said:


> Yes i have read the article and yes i am backing up my argument with FACTS. If a Brit wants to try their luck in Spain who has building experience i would say right time right place and GL to them before they know it they could own a nice little house and have a fantastic life. It’s so cheap to live in Spain compared to the UK and once Scotland is sorted out Sterling will probably continue to strengthen against the Euro.


Why do you say it's so cheap to live in Spain compared to the UK?
Can you give some examples?


----------



## Pesky Wesky

extranjero said:


> Why do you say it's so cheap to live in Spain compared to the UK?
> Can you give some examples?


Council tax?


----------



## xabiaxica

Pesky Wesky said:


> Council tax?


car tax??

can't think of much else atm - there isn't a lot in it now for most things I think


oh - & property


----------



## wilsman77

extranjero said:


> Why do you say it's so cheap to live in Spain compared to the UK?
> Can you give some examples?


eating and drinking out....

some more current good news for the doom and gloomers on here..... you know who you are.....

The Spanish economy has emerged from recession and returned to growth thanks to the far-reaching reforms implemented in the country, which have led to improvement in international competitiveness. This was the main conclusion of the 2014 Economic Survey of Spain, prepared by the OECD and presented in Madrid last week


----------



## Madliz

Pesky Wesky said:


> He should try telling Madliz that her house has doubled in value!
> (Another forum menber who's been trying to sell her property in Madrid for years)


Hey, it almost has, but only because it was bought in 1994, when the last recession was reckoned to have bottomed out. This recession is currently considered to BE bottoming out. Sales ARE up, currently, but against very low figures for several years that doesn't count for a whole lot. Compared to the highs of 2007, my house has 'lost' hundreds of thousands! I would never be tempted by a 'new build' here as, living here, reading and watching builds, I know only too well what the building standards were in the boom times. Energy certificates arrived in Spain in the last couple of years and my house, rated 'D', is in the top 15% for Spanish property. Most builds are in the bottom 'G' rating. 

Compared to the extremely dire times we have endured here over the last, what, six years, any green shoots can look like great news, but the line on the graph can go down down again so easily. 

I am in my fifties, lost my husband to cancer some years back now when he was 53, have no job and two grown up children. One's circumstances can change like this overnight. My son left Spain for work in London and my daughter is in Andalucía, currently unemployed, though not figuring in official lists as she, like so many, has not worked enough to be entitled to unemployment benefit (yes, very different to the UK) and therefore has no incentive to 'sign on'. The unemployment rates you see for Spain are therefore totally skewed.

There are many people on this forum who have lived here for years, know Spanish and British and other nationalities and can tell you how it is. We have no interest in deterring people, but only wish not to see people suffering as we have seen others suffer, through broken dreams, lost savings and wrecked lives. Living here and making enough to pay the bills is as hard as anywhere generally, but in the crisis times the safety net you have in the UK needs to be appreciated. There is no net to catch you here. Many households here consist of three generations living under one roof, eeking out the grandparents' pension. The wise would listen to what people actually living here have to say.


----------



## wilsman77

extranjero said:


> Why do you say it's so cheap to live in Spain compared to the UK?
> Can you give some examples?


extransgender, have you ever actually been to Spain? its cheap as chips, rates maintenance boilers kitchens IKEA


----------



## whitenoiz

wilsman77 said:


> Torre, i have just bought a plave in Cabo, its close to Torre. All the reports coming out of Spain at the moment are possitive reguarding building activity *so dont let this negative lot put you off. *i think that most of the people on here are a bit bitter due probably to the torrid time they have had since 2008 (cant blame them) but if you ask me this is probably the best time to be buying moving to Spain as it begind to pick up again. GL.


...dont let this negative lot put you off? *Its not negativity its telling it like it is...*

Many of us have just cause to be critical of so called Brit builders. I have little doubt that the place you have just bought in Cabo was built by Spanish Builders, people well versed in Spanish regulations, building standards and materials. The standard of workmanship achieved by most Brit builders out here are little better and sometimes a lot worse than those used by enthusiastic amateur D-I-Y'ers.

We have very bad memories of the Brit builder we engaged to carry out the reformation of our little town house. Incompetence doesnt begin to describe this character. He came highly recommended; one of his projects (turns out to be the _only _successful project) featured in Ch 5 TV's 'Property Development Under The Sun.' Just another cowboy it seems... every project he started turned to ratsh*t at some point; even the one that had appeared in the TV programme. 

As part of that project he had installed a very expensive hot tub onto wooden decking which adjoined the house. He sub-contracted the electrics to another Brit who took one too many short cuts; the wiring to the hot tub was of the wrong current capacity and burned out taking the hot tub, the decking and a part of the rear wall of the house out in the ensuing fire.

On a job he was carrying out at the same time as ours he had been tasked with providing a flat roof sun terrace which extended over the entire surface of the house, about 850 sq.ft. This he did but he failed to put down a waterproofing substrate before laying the tiles... nor did he design in any slight slope to allow rain water to drain off. He was also tasked with installing another hot tub this time on the roof... unfortunately he failed to put sufficient underpinning or reinforcement under the hot tub. Fast forward to November and the first real tormenta thunderstorm of the season... the roof leaked... badly... especially under the hot tub where the roof had sagged somewhat under the weight and which was located directly over the master bedroom. The bedroom's plasterboard ceiling collapsed under the weight of the rain water writing off over 2500 Euros worth of brand new furniture and bedlinen.

The thing is that if one engages a Spanish Builder after a word of mouth recommendation from ones neighbours you can be reasonably sure you are getting the real deal and most will not rip you of because they rely on such word of mouth personal recommendation. 

With an Independent 'one man show' Brit you have no such guarantees. The 10 year guarantee he may give probably isnt worth the paper its written on. Indeed there is no guarantee that he will still be around if and when you need to file a complaint.

I'm not labelling all Brit builders as cowboys; no doubt there are some who do a damn good job, on time and at a fair price but you as a client wont know until after youve engaged him and by then it may well be too late...

As a newcomer to Spain, starting out as a builder you have no reputation to fall back on or to demonstrate your capabilities. The Spanish won't engage your services unless 
a) you can come in at a lower price than your Spanish counterpart and 
b) can actually engage in a knowledgable technical conversation with clients architects and Town Hall 'funcionarios' in Spanish. 

Most Brits won't engage a newbie without a recommendation... _its a Catch 22 situation; without a reputation you won't get the work but you wont get a reputation without the work._

Regardless of whether the Spanish Property market is picking up (and I see no physical evidence that it is) if there is any building work to be had out here it will go the the Spanish labour market first; Brits probably won't feature at all in the running because of their generally poor track record.

TBH the only people who are likely to be able to make a go of resettlement in Spain these days are people with a guaranteed income. For those on UK pensions even this is debatable since it is susceptible to some horrendous variations in the £ / € exchange rate. When we moved out here £1000 got you 1600 Euros, in 2011 that sank to 1000 Euros and now hovers around 1250 Euros. When coupled to inflation especially in utility services like electricity, gas, water and fuel, this makes for a reduction in actual spending power.

If coming out here involves looking for work, burning your bridges, selling your UK property or taking out a mortgage the advice has to be DON'T DO IT!


----------



## xabiaxica

wilsman77 said:


> eating and drinking out....
> 
> some more current good news for the doom and gloomers on here..... you know who you are.....
> 
> The Spanish economy has emerged from recession and returned to growth thanks to the far-reaching reforms implemented in the country, which have led to improvement in international competitiveness. This was the main conclusion of the 2014 Economic Survey of Spain, prepared by the OECD and presented in Madrid last week


yes I forgot about eating out


can you give us a link to the article please? (forum rules)


----------



## tarot650

wilsman77 said:


> extransgender, have you ever actually been to Spain? its cheap as chips, rates maintenance boilers kitchens IKEA


It's only as cheap as chips if you have a healthy bank account.Try telling that to the Spanish people who havn't and who have had to go live back with their parents and the ones waiting to go olive picking for 4 or 5euros an hour.T-----s like you are two a penny here.Thank god I have not got you on my barby list or as a next door neighbour.Off for a meal now folks at our local venta where they do a special menu for OAP's.One thing is sure wilsman you are good for a laugh if nothing else.


----------



## Pazcat

Spain is vastly cheaper than other countries, we certainly save a bundle(at least one third if not more) compared to what we did in Belgium but then again that is Belgium and I wouldn't recommend that either.

Also this region of Spain is much cheaper than other areas we considered at the time like Barcelona or Bilbao.
Then again what point is it being cheap if you don't have any money to enjoy it.


----------



## jojo

wilsman77 said:


> interesting comments. So let me get this straight, you are all happy you all love Spain no doubt your propetty has doubled in price blah blah blah, and yet you are all advising agaginst anyone commimg to Country........ OMG in which case i have made a masive mistake buying a brand new Euro 70K house a few minutes from the beech. Perhaps its because you are all just a bit tired would i be right in thinking most of you are 65's and over?
> The UK is booming but not if you work in the Public Sector or in numerous Northern Towns perhaps Torre falls into one of those categories. The fact is that Spain property sales and the Economy is improving and i think that dashing peoples hopes and dreams because you have a friend who has been made redundant from a Hospital in Spain is a very polar view. We can all quote horror stories from our perspective Countrys of residence its funny how you fail to evevr mention anything possitive about the recovery in Spain and just decide to gang up on people that do.


We moved to Spain in 2008, with our two kids and two dogs. my husband continued to commute to the UK for work and it took me three years to find a job. In the end a friend employed me. I did then get some telesales work (commission only). 

It became a struggle, my husband got fed to with the commute, our plans to start a sister company for the UK business were impossible due to the recession and we returned to the UK in 2012. The whole enterprise probably cost us in excess of £40,000 and worth every penny. But don't let anyone tell you it's easy if you need to generate an income in Spain. Not only that, it's not fair IMO to take jobs from those who are in Spain already and desperate.

That all said, go on a few fact finding missions and decide for yourself - only you know, we can only tell you how it is

Jo xxx


----------



## wilsman77

xabiachica said:


> yes I forgot about eating out
> 
> 
> can you give us a link to the article please? (forum rules)


Spain's economy to grow by 1.2 pct: OECD - Worldnews.com

my god are you all too old to use GOOGLE??????


----------



## jojo

wilsman77 said:


> extransgender, have you ever actually been to Spain? its cheap as chips, rates maintenance boilers kitchens IKEA


It's all relative. Things are only cheap if you have a good income! 

You need to be a little less excitable and a little more knowledgable of the reality. Relocating isn't a game, it costs money and may 'burn bridges'. When you have children, you need to be cautious 

Jo xxx


----------



## Lynn R

wilsman77 said:


> eating and drinking out....
> 
> some more current good news for the doom and gloomers on here..... you know who you are.....
> 
> The Spanish economy has emerged from recession and returned to growth thanks to the far-reaching reforms implemented in the country, which have led to improvement in international competitiveness. This was the main conclusion of the 2014 Economic Survey of Spain, prepared by the OECD and presented in Madrid last week


Do you understand what "improvement in internatioinal competitiveness" means in practice? It means that Spain is able to produce things more cheaply than competitors - mainly because wages have dropped so much (which is exactly what the article I linked to was highlighting).

As I'm sure you know from the UK, much vaunted improvements in the country's macro economic situation like the headline "growth" rate don't translate into improvements in people's living standards. On the contrary, it means they've got worse. More people working reduced hours, wages cut or frozen, more part time and temporary contracts replacing full time jobs. Employers able to impose whatever worsened conditions they like because "if you don't like it, there are thousands out there who'd love your job".

I had two local unemployed men, who had previously worked in construction earning €3,000 per month, paint my house. I asked how much they wanted - €40 per day each (for an 8 hour day), they said, and were embarrassingly grateful to get it. Another neighbour who's a plumber but hasn´t had a job for several years apart from a couple of temporary "job creation" contracts with the local Council which enable him to continue claiming unemployment benefit once the contract finishes, was happy to help transport furniture from the removal van to the house of some recently arrived British people, just to earn an extra €20. This is the reality people are having to live with.


----------



## wilsman77

jojo said:


> It's all relative. Things are only cheap if you have a good income!


no they are not! what has income got to do with the price of a beer (at current exchange rates) in Spain V's the price of a Beer in the UK?
or Council tax or property or rent...........

ITS CHEAPER IN SPAIN honest.


----------



## jojo

wilsman77 said:


> no they are not! what has income got to do with the price of a beer (at current exchange rates) in Spain V's the price of a Beer in the UK?
> or Council tax or property or rent...........
> 
> ITS CHEAPER IN SPAIN honest.


Only if you earn enough to cover the cost of living. 

Jo xxx


----------



## xabiaxica

wilsman77 said:


> no they are not! what has income got to do with the price of a beer (at current exchange rates) in Spain V's the price of a Beer in the UK?
> or Council tax or property or rent...........
> 
> ITS CHEAPER IN SPAIN honest.


it's cheap for you - the exchange rate is immaterial for those of us earning a living in Spain - which is what the OP is wanting to do

if your income in Spain is half what it would be in the UK, then a beer which costs half what it would in the UK isn't any cheaper, is it?


----------



## Granma

The price may be cheaper BUT if you have only a set amount of euros free to spend then it becomes a large junk of your available income. It is all relative as jojo said.


----------



## wilsman77

Granma said:


> The price may be cheaper BUT if you have only a set amount of euros free to spend then it becomes a large junk of your available income. It is all relative as jojo said.


unlievable, thats like saying if a person does not have a job in Spain and another has a job in London, then Spain is more expensive.... thats just not logical, have you lot ever seen the movie Cocoon?


----------



## mrypg9

I noticed you bought a house for 70k euros in Torrevieja.

No further comment.
Enjoy.


----------



## sarakas

I'm actually finding it to be the same as UK if not more expensive! meat, tobacco and alcohol are cheap but electricity and decent furniture are pricey!!! Even the "cheap" furniture is expensive and bad quality?! My spanish bf loves coming back with me to the UK to pick up cheap bits and bobs for our flat- he really loves charity shops too! Something which I can't really find in Spain!


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## sarakas

However... I forgot to mention, I have now left my £20k job to be with him in Spain, so we will only have one wage. This will mean that booze, **** and meat will not be cheap because he will have to pay for twice the amount. Hey ho! X


----------



## wilsman77

sarakas said:


> However... I forgot to mention, I have now left my £20k job to be with him in Spain, so we will only have one wage. This will mean that booze, **** and meat will not be cheap because he will have to pay for twice the amount. Hey ho! X


was it a holiday romance?


----------



## sarakas

wilsman77 said:


> was it a holiday romance?


Not sure what that has to do with anything but yes  met two years ago in the Caribbean 

I must say, if it weren't for him then I probably wouldn't move to Spain, only because I know my job prospects are virtually nil. Why would they choose me over a Spanish national? But we are prepared for that and have budgeted accordingly


----------



## whitenoiz

> Mods, this is a troll.


/SNIP/

*Houses have doubled in value?* Really? ... House prices generally are down between 40 and 50% on their pre-2008 values and they _still dont sell._ That 70K house you quote would have set you back around 140K back then. Prices were ridiculously and artificially high but then people were optimistic and flocked over here in droves looking for that place in the sun. The market charged what the market was willing to pay. 

Once the work ran out (too many cowboys) and reality and disenchantment kicked in many had to return to the UK unable to keep up mortgage repayments; why do you think there are so many bank repos on the market? 

Then we hit 2011 and the exchange rate fell to parity 1:1; many of the survivors and some on fixed incomes _had_ to return to the UK. Those that could that is; many had burned their bridges only to find that renting in the private sector in the UK had reached disproportionately high levels (and have stayed there.) Can't afford the mortgage repayments over here, can't afford to rent in the UK...

*The UK is booming...* Tory inspired untruth… only in the eyes of David Cameron and the statisticians and as for a recovery in Spain... forget it. 

Cameron and Rajoy have many things in common not least of which is the ability to manipulate statistics. Both live in la-la land; both are totally out of contact with reality and the electorate they are supposed to serve and represent and as happened with Blair / Brown and Zapatero / Rubalcaba, come the next elections both are in for a surprise; not that it matters to them of course, as career politicians their nests are pretty well proofed… If the economy ofboth countries are improving it has been achieved off the backs of the workforce; their standard of living has fallen and will continue to do so for the foreseeable future.










*Again... it's not negativity, it's telling it like it is.*


----------



## extranjero

wilsman77 said:


> extransgender, have you ever actually been to Spain? its cheap as chips, rates maintenance boilers kitchens IKEA


Been to Spain? Lived here for 13 years!
By the way, I do hope you get some help with your dyslexia!


----------



## extranjero

sarakas said:


> I'm actually finding it to be the same as UK if not more expensive! meat, tobacco and alcohol are cheap but electricity and decent furniture are pricey!!! Even the "cheap" furniture is expensive and bad quality?! My spanish bf loves coming back with me to the UK to pick up cheap bits and bobs for our flat- he really loves charity shops too! Something which I can't really find in Spain!


I'm surprised you can't find charity shops, we have at least three round here.
I think it's because of people returning to the UK- huge black bags full of stuff on a regular basis.
I'll be supplying them with a few of my own when the time comes!


----------



## sarakas

extranjero said:


> I'm surprised you can't find charity shops, we have at least three round here. I think it's because of people returning to the UK- huge black bags full of stuff on a regular basis. I'll be supplying them with a few of my own when the time comes!


Really? Where are you? I'm in seseña, 30mins south of madrid- so not an expat area, which does make it hard to make friends, however I met someone from Kingston who has been here for 15 yrs and I'm from weybridge in Surrey


----------



## jojo

wilsman77 said:


> unlievable, thats like saying if a person does not have a job in Spain and another has a job in London, then Spain is more expensive.... thats just not logical, have you lot ever seen the movie Cocoon?


Have you brought your entire life over from the UK - with two children, left the security of your homeland, assumed the exchange rate would stay good and then find you can't get enough work to pay your rent, utilities, buy food or pay to take everyone back???? We did it, but we were lucky, we kept our UK home, kept my husbands business and could just slot back. But the upheaval has affected us all. The cost we could cover fortunately. 

No we're not old and the expat friends we made in Spain weren't , some had been in Spain for many years - in fact one had been a successful builder. They're all back in the UK now.

How will you feel if this family, or anyone else actually believes what you say and on the strength of your words, moves over and fails - which is a very high probability???

My advice to anyone would be to do lots of research and make their own decision. But right now the odds aren't good

Now do try to be polite - no one likes or wants to listen to veiled insults from a poster who thinks he knows best

Jo xxx


----------



## extranjero

sarakas said:


> Really? Where are you? I'm in seseña, 30mins south of madrid- so not an expat area, which does make it hard to make friends, however I met someone from Kingston who has been here for 15 yrs and I'm from weybridge in Surrey


Murcia.
You need to find your nearest ex pat area.
There are so many charities here, and they all welcome the stuff you don't want any more.


----------



## sarakas

extranjero said:


> Murcia. You need to find your nearest ex pat area. There are so many charities here, and they all welcome the stuff you don't want any more.


Thank you! Don't want to change the subject of the OP x


----------



## Lynn R

mrypg9 said:


> I noticed you bought a house for 70k euros in Torrevieja.
> 
> No further comment.
> Enjoy.


Which will have actually cost him at least €78K including fees and transfer tax, and if he wanted or needed to sell it would cost another €5k. How long will it be before that house would fetch €82k enabling him just to break even on it?

But economics clearly isn't his strong point, if he thinks rock bottom house prices and being able to eat out cheaply is a sign of a healthy economy. People with a little more between their ears realise that eating out is cheap because 
a) the exchange rate has improved which as someone already said is completely irrelevant to the OP who would be looking to make a living here in euros, and
b) because the people producing the food, cooking and serving it to him are all earning butttons.

If you're here purely as a consumer as we are, and not as an earner, cheap prices are great. If you´re a worker in an industry where wages rates are peanuts, they´re not so good.

If he thinks the prospects here are so wonderful, makes you wonder why he isn't planning to relocate here himself rather than just spending a few days a month in his nice new house.


----------



## jojo

Well, I think the OP has enough information to be going on with for now. Arguing this point is really pointless. 
Jo xxx


----------



## Pesky Wesky

sarakas said:


> Really? Where are you? I'm in seseña, 30mins south of madrid- so not an expat area, which does make it hard to make friends, however I met someone from Kingston who has been here for 15 yrs and I'm from weybridge in Surrey


Seseña?
At the heart of the Spanish housing and building crisis?
You are living in the place that best illustrates the collapse of the Spanish housing market, so you're not taking the thread off topic at all.

This video/ article is from 2008
BBC NEWS | Business | From boom town to ghost town

In 2014 there are still flats for sale 
http://www.elmundo.es/economia/2014/02/28/530f7ef4ca47413f3a8b457a.html


 * Banco Sabadell exprime un poco más las rebajas y vende viviendas desde 57.000 euros *
Banco Sabadell squeezes a little more out of the sales and sells dwellings from 57.000€

* Se trata de pisos de dos dormitorios con garaje comercializados por 195.718 € en 2007 *
These are 2 bedroomed flats with a garage that were selling for 195.718€ in 2007
What was wilsman77 saying about properties doubling in value?
Ha
Ha 

Ha
I bet the people who invested here are laughing all the way to the bank about that one.
The last I heard is that parts of this complex are deemed unsellable (too many empty properties on the market) and are going to be demolished.


PS *sarakas*. There are very very few secondhand shops outside the expat areas of the south, but you might find there are some on some poligonos and there are some which are run by ex drug addicts called Remar. I think it's a national organisation. Try Googling it!


----------



## whitenoiz

Most of the locals here leave any replaced furniture or electrical goods down by the communal bins... it rarely stays there long enough to be collected by the refuse collection gang!


----------



## Madliz

Here's a culture difference between Spain and the UK. Rent a skip in Blighty and overnight everyone and their dog throw their unwanted junk in. Do the same here and overnight it's emptied.


----------



## sarakas

Pesky Wesky said:


> Seseña? At the heart of the Spanish housing and building crisis? You are living in the place that best illustrates the collapse of the Spanish housing market, so you're not taking the thread off topic at all. This video/ article is from 2008 BBC NEWS | Business | From boom town to ghost town In 2014 there are still flats for sale http://www.elmundo.es/economia/2014/02/28/530f7ef4ca47413f3a8b457a.html [*] Banco Sabadell exprime un poco más las rebajas y vende viviendas desde 57.000 euros [*]Banco Sabadell squeezes a little more out of the sales and sells dwellings from 57.000€ [*] Se trata de pisos de dos dormitorios con garaje comercializados por 195.718 € en 2007 [*]These are 2 bedroomed flats with a garage that were selling for 195.718€ in 2007 What was wilsman77 saying about properties doubling in value? Ha Ha Ha I bet the people who invested here are laughing all the way to the bank about that one. The last I heard is that parts of this complex are deemed unsellable (too many empty properties on the market) and are going to be demolished. PS sarakas. There are very very few secondhand shops outside the expat areas of the south, but you might find there are some on some poligonos and there are some which are run by ex drug addicts called Remar. I think it's a national organisation. Try Googling it!


Hi PW- yes, in El Quiñion to be exact- one of our neighbours paid 250,000€ back in 2008 my other half paid 80,000€ nearly 3 years ago. (Still the same value now ) When I first visited, in nov 2012 it was pretty much empty... It's starting to fill up though now which is nice, mainly with Southern Americans but it's no where near what they should have sold for. I always compare it to the Bronx or the middle of nowhere!!! Haha. Bf got it for an investment... Which will be a long time!!! 2 beds, 2 bathrooms and a MASSIVE communal pool. It suits us for now. It's a struggle in Spain, but it really depends on the lifestyle you want..... Ours will be VERY basic... On one wage! My BF is GC for 21 years this month.... Personally, I think we are lucky... For his wage and pension in the future. I lost everything in 2008 with the UK crisis, so we decided it makes sense for our future to be in Spain. But who knows!? X


----------



## Pesky Wesky

sarakas said:


> Hi PW- yes, in El Quiñion to be exact- one of our neighbours paid 250,000€ back in 2008 my other half paid 80,000€ nearly 3 years ago. (Still the same value now ) When I first visited, in nov 2012 it was pretty much empty... It's starting to fill up though now which is nice, mainly with Southern Americans but it's no where near what they should have sold for. I always compare it to the Bronx or the middle of nowhere!!! Haha. Bf got it for an investment... Which will be a long time!!! 2 beds, 2 bathrooms and a MASSIVE communal pool. It suits us for now. It's a struggle in Spain, but it really depends on the lifestyle you want..... Ours will be VERY basic... On one wage! My BF is GC for 21 years this month.... Personally, I think we are lucky... For his wage and pension in the future. I lost everything in 2008 with the UK crisis, so we decided it makes sense for our future to be in Spain. But who knows!? X


It must be a very strange area to live in as it really is a massive construction, as you say, in the middle of nowhere! (That's not a criticism by the way, just an observation. I suppose there are some pros and some cons as usual)
By GC do you mean Guardia Civil? If so I bet you're getting a good introduction into "real" Spanish life!
Sounds like you've got a healthy attitude. Keep looking on the bright side, and good luck


----------



## wilsman77

sarakas said:


> Not sure what that has to do with anything but yes  met two years ago in the Caribbean
> 
> I must say, if it weren't for him then I probably wouldn't move to Spain, only because I know my job prospects are virtually nil. Why would they choose me over a Spanish national? But we are prepared for that and have budgeted accordingly


So romantic I even shed a tear or two. Well done you.


----------



## jojo

One things for sure, if you're going to be moving to that part of Spain, you're gonna have to get used to "oldies" 

Jo xx


----------



## wilsman77

jojo said:


> Rather than this pseudo mockery and juvenile comments, why dont you explain how someone in the UK with a family and commitments can guarantee a successful move to Spain and live happily ever after
> 
> Jo xxx


Unfortunately nothing is guaranteed in life, being a bit naive if you think it can be.


----------



## jojo

wilsman77 said:


> Unfortunately nothing is guaranteed in life, being a bit naive if you think it can be.



You have all the answers, I just thought rather than simply accusing all the "oldies" of being negative, you'd have a sensible and "grown up" plan! 

Jo xxx


----------



## sarakas

Pesky Wesky said:


> It must be a very strange area to live in as it really is a massive construction, as you say, in the middle of nowhere! (That's not a criticism by the way, just an observation. I suppose there are some pros and some cons as usual) By GC do you mean Guardia Civil? If so I bet you're getting a good introduction into "real" Spanish life! Sounds like you've got a healthy attitude. Keep looking on the bright side, and good luck


Totally strange!! Ghost town but with less ghosts. He is indeed Guardia Civil My attitude at first was... Whoop whoop, live in Spain! It's cheap! Everybody speaks English! Get a job and my world will be fine!! Live in the Spanish sunshine!! 

Spanish sunshine.... I hate August in Spain!!! To be a builder in this season, I can only imagine it's horrible... My bf has to wear full motorbike gear sometimes.... There are NO human rights for him cause he is out saving people and the land! He's not had a pay increase for a very long time, in fact, he is working more hours for the same money. He hates summer, so do I now. My first instinct in our flat in summer was very British... Open the windows!!... Never again!!! Lol. My bf and I won't be having kids... We can't afford them. 

There are no jobs here!!! Fact!!! Going to every bar will just show how desperate you are... You wouldn't do it in England so why do you think it will work in Spain, and now there are less bars. More so after tourist season?!. 

My spanish is still bad after two years ( my fault ) and I'm in a Spanish area! But it's kinda cool, I'm the "only English" girl here and everybody has been great with me, but I think it's a lot to do with my spanish bf. 

England IS a great country! The weather is NOT that bad! And it gets to me when people say... " I want a life in the sun! Let's go to Spain!!!" There must be a better reason to up route your whole family!? 

Sorry, I'm rambling!  x


----------



## sarakas

wilsman77 said:


> Are any of you oldies still awake?


At 95 I'm trying to keep my eyes open!


----------



## sarakas

wilsman77 said:


> So romantic I even shed a tear or two. Well done you.


Thank you for your approval


----------



## jojo

sarakas said:


> England IS a great country! The weather is NOT that bad! And it gets to me when people say... " I want a life in the sun! Let's go to Spain!!!" There must be a better reason to up route your whole family!?
> 
> Sorry, I'm rambling!  x


In the end, life is the same in both countries. housework, washing, cooking, cleaning, gardening, shopping, school run...... In the summer in Spain its too hot, in the winter its cold and no central heating or carpets......

I used to dislike the UK, I'm still not keen, but having left it and returned, I can now see the benefits. Its safe, I know the way it works and the language and should I hit hard times, I know that there will be welfare benefits. 

That said, I'd be back to Spain in a heart beat if the work was there!! My daughter, who hated Spain (and made it known!!!), is now of an age where she could be left in the UK!!!

Jo xxx


----------



## sarakas

jojo said:


> In the end, life is the same in both countries. housework, washing, cooking, cleaning, gardening, shopping, school run...... In the summer in Spain its too hot, in the winter its cold and no central heating or carpets...... I used to dislike the UK, I'm still not keen, but having left it and returned, I can now see the benefits. Its safe, I know the way it works and the language and should I hit hard times, I know that there will be welfare benefits. That said, I'd be back to Spain in a heart beat if the work was there!! My daughter, who hated Spain (and made it known!!!), is now of an age where she could be left in the UK!!! Jo xxx


I now love both countries-- my bf and I are totally Spanglish!! The only thing I really miss is carpets!!! Keeps MY feet clean! Lol. Sorry going off topic again! 

Back to the point- now I have no income, we will be skint! And that's without kids. X


----------



## whitenoiz

Definition of the Madrid climate... 9 months of winter
followed by three months of hell! I had a two hour layover in Madrid Coach Station in July last year waiting for a delayed Eurolines connection to Granada... not something I'd want to do every day... 
Madrid, although hot during the Summer, is usually a couple of degrees below the temps encountered in Granada, Cordoba and Seville. In our village some 35Kms from Granada the max recorded temp this year was 44C...
A couple of years ago on another forum a mid twenties girl from New York over here on a three month vacation and not impressed with any aspect of Spain and 'couldn't wait to get back home,' slammed the Spanish traditional Siesta. One of her various nasty comments was that the locals should work during the afternoons and that shops should remain open then close at 5 or 6pm 'like they do back home'. When I pointed out the health and Safety aspects of high temperatures for outdoor workers she replied "Our road maintenance crews regularly work outside in 120 degree temperatures... I finally defeated her with the comment that the 'roadcrews' she was referring to normally had armed sheriff's deputies and prison guards standing over them... at which point she stormed off never to be heard from again.


----------



## Pesky Wesky

whitenoiz said:


> Definition of the Madrid climate... 9 months of winter
> followed by three months of hell! I had a two hour layover in Madrid Coach Station in July last year waiting for a delayed Eurolines connection to Granada... not something I'd want to do every day...
> Madrid, although hot during the Summer, is usually a couple of degrees below the temps encountered in Granada, Cordoba and Seville. In our village some 35Kms from Granada the max recorded temp this year was 44C...
> A couple of years ago on another forum a mid twenties girl from New York over here on a three month vacation and not impressed with any aspect of Spain and 'couldn't wait to get back home,' slammed the Spanish traditional Siesta. One of her various nasty comments was that the locals should work during the afternoons and that shops should remain open then close at 5 or 6pm 'like they do back home'. When I pointed out the health and Safety aspects of high temperatures for outdoor workers she replied "Our road maintenance crews regularly work outside in 120 degree temperatures... I finally defeated her with the comment that the 'roadcrews' she was referring to normally had armed sheriff's deputies and prison guards standing over them... at which point she stormed off never to be heard from again.


Actually, she's in Toledo (provincia), so I don't know why it says Madrid on her profile


----------



## mrypg9

sarakas said:


> Totally strange!! Ghost town but with less ghosts. He is indeed Guardia Civil My attitude at first was... Whoop whoop, live in Spain! It's cheap! Everybody speaks English! Get a job and my world will be fine!! Live in the Spanish sunshine!!
> 
> Spanish sunshine.... I hate August in Spain!!! To be a builder in this season, I can only imagine it's horrible... My bf has to wear full motorbike gear sometimes.... There are NO human rights for him cause he is out saving people and the land! He's not had a pay increase for a very long time, in fact, he is working more hours for the same money. He hates summer, so do I now. My first instinct in our flat in summer was very British... Open the windows!!... Never again!!! Lol. My bf and I won't be having kids... We can't afford them.
> 
> There are no jobs here!!! Fact!!! Going to every bar will just show how desperate you are... You wouldn't do it in England so why do you think it will work in Spain, and now there are less bars. More so after tourist season?!.
> 
> My spanish is still bad after two years ( my fault ) and I'm in a Spanish area! But it's kinda cool, I'm the "only English" girl here and everybody has been great with me, but I think it's a lot to do with my spanish bf.
> 
> England IS a great country! The weather is NOT that bad! And it gets to me when people say... " I want a life in the sun! Let's go to Spain!!!" There must be a better reason to up route your whole family!?
> 
> Sorry, I'm rambling!  x


Ramble on! Your posts are really informative and sensible.
Ignore the jealous troll who's probably stuck on a dreary estate somewhere like Penge.


----------



## Pesky Wesky

sarakas said:


> Totally strange!! Ghost town but with less ghosts. He is indeed Guardia Civil My attitude at first was... Whoop whoop, live in Spain! It's cheap! Everybody speaks English! Get a job and my world will be fine!! Live in the Spanish sunshine!!
> 
> Spanish sunshine.... I hate August in Spain!!! To be a builder in this season, I can only imagine it's horrible... My bf has to wear full motorbike gear sometimes.... There are NO human rights for him cause he is out saving people and the land! He's not had a pay increase for a very long time, in fact, he is working more hours for the same money. He hates summer, so do I now. My first instinct in our flat in summer was very British... Open the windows!!... Never again!!! Lol. My bf and I won't be having kids... We can't afford them.
> 
> There are no jobs here!!! Fact!!! Going to every bar will just show how desperate you are... You wouldn't do it in England so why do you think it will work in Spain, and now there are less bars. More so after tourist season?!.
> 
> My spanish is still bad after two years ( my fault ) and I'm in a Spanish area! But it's kinda cool, I'm the "only English" girl here and everybody has been great with me, but I think it's a lot to do with my spanish bf.
> 
> England IS a great country! The weather is NOT that bad! And it gets to me when people say... " I want a life in the sun! Let's go to Spain!!!" There must be a better reason to up route your whole family!?
> 
> Sorry, I'm rambling!  x


It would be really interesting for all sorts of people if you wrote something on this thread as I think your experience is very "Spain today", and also you're in a part of Spain that a lot of people know little about
http://www.expatforum.com/expats/la-tasca/374305-stories-life-spain.html
You could just copy and paste some of the things you've said on this thread if you want


----------



## Pesky Wesky

mrypg9 said:


> Ramble on! Your posts are really informative and sensible.
> Ignore the jealous troll who's probably stuck on a dreary estate somewhere like Penge.


Yes, pease do. It's a lot more interesting and informative than some of the other posts on here


----------



## sarakas

Pesky Wesky said:


> Actually, she's in Toledo (provincia), so I don't know why it says Madrid on her profile


Me?? Sorry when I first joined I didn't actually know I was in Toledo!  madrid is just as close though?! X


----------



## sarakas

Pesky Wesky said:


> It would be really interesting for all sorts of people if you wrote something on this thread as I think your experience is very "Spain today", and also you're in a part of Spain that a lot of people know little about http://www.expatforum.com/expats/la-tasca/374305-stories-life-spain.html You could just copy and paste some of the things you've said on this thread if you want


Thank you all, I didn't want to take over the op but just point out that TBH Spain is no different really from the UK ( which I love! ). It's just sooooo hot in the summer and soooo cold in the winter! 

I will keep you updated, if you want?! And maybe takeover a few post's here or there! Lol x


----------



## wilsman77

Lynn R said:


> Which will have actually cost him at least €78K including fees and transfer tax, and if he wanted or needed to sell it would cost another €5k. How long will it be before that house would fetch €82k enabling him just to break even on it?
> 
> But economics clearly isn't his strong point, if he thinks rock bottom house prices and being able to eat out cheaply is a sign of a healthy economy. People with a little more between their ears realise that eating out is cheap because
> a) the exchange rate has improved which as someone already said is completely irrelevant to the OP who would be looking to make a living here in euros, and
> b) because the people producing the food, cooking and serving it to him are all earning butttons.
> 
> If you're here purely as a consumer as we are, and not as an earner, cheap prices are great. If you´re a worker in an industry where wages rates are peanuts, they´re not so good.
> 
> If he thinks the prospects here are so wonderful, makes you wonder why he isn't planning to relocate here himself rather than just spending a few days a month in his nice new house.


I wish costs were 8K more like 10K and dont forget that kitchen i have to install!


----------



## SandraP

wilsman77 said:


> I wish costs were 8K more like 10K and dont forget that kitchen i have to install!


So you have bought a shell that is unfurnished without even a kitchen for 70K near a tree (beech) as a holiday home and you know all there is to know about life in Spain :rofl:
My husband & I are still in UK, he is still working here to save money to be able to afford a relatively ok life in Spain. We are under no illusions, that is why he is not looking for work in Spain now as a fully qualified, time served heating engineer (both commercial & domestic for gas, LPG & oil), plumber, welder. We will certainly listen to the views and advice of the likes of Xabiachica, Pesky, Extrajanero, Mrypg9 and every other regular and Spanish resident, not the likes of you, wilsman77 who seems to be living in cloud cuckoo land.
In fact thinking about what you said, you could say that life in Sri lanka is fantastic & cheap (we are going there on holiday in a couple of weeks), it is if you are from the UK, but if you are living there and earning the wages the locals earn (average 400 rupees a day - 1000 is equal to £5) then the standard of living becomes low and everything is now relatively expensive to a local. I wouldn't like to live here on the money the locals earn.


----------



## wilsman77

SandraP said:


> So you have bought a shell that is unfurnished without even a kitchen for 70K near a tree (beech) as a holiday home and you know all there is to know about life in Spain :rofl:
> My husband & I are still in UK, he is still working here to save money to be able to afford a relatively ok life in Spain. We are under no illusions, that is why he is not looking for work in Spain now as a fully qualified, time served heating engineer (both commercial & domestic for gas, LPG & oil), plumber, welder. We will certainly listen to the views and advice of the likes of and every other regular and Spanish resident, not the likes of you, wilsman77 who seems to be living in cloud cuckoo land.
> In fact thinking about what you said, you could say that life in Sri lanka is fantastic & cheap (we are going there on holiday in a couple of weeks), it is if you are from the UK, but if you are living there and earning the wages the locals earn (average 400 rupees a day - 1000 is equal to £5) then the standard of living becomes low and everything is now relatively expensive to a local. I wouldn't like to live here on the money the locals earn.


you take advice from this lot: Xabiachica, Pesky, Extrajanero, Mrypg9 my god you already have the bitter/negative bug its infectious..... BTW who cares about Sri Lanka this is Spain we are discussing


----------



## jojo

SandraP said:


> My husband & I are still in UK, he is still working here to save money to be able to afford a relatively ok life in Spain. We are under no illusions, that is why he is not looking for work in Spain now as a fully qualified, time served heating engineer (both commercial & domestic for gas, LPG & oil), plumber, welder. We will certainly listen to the views and advice of the likes of Xabiachica, Pesky, Extrajanero, Mrypg9 and every other regular and Spanish resident, not the likes of you, wilsman77 who seems to be living in cloud cuckoo land.
> .


From what I can see, he's just a young lad with big dreams and doesnt know anything much about Spain, so really shouldnt comment or be listened to. All he seems to do is try to use age as an insult

Jo xxx


----------



## DunWorkin

wilsman77 said:


> Mrypig, is Cabo in Torrevieja? y su esanol es muy pobre


I see you are dyslexic in Spanish as well as English :typing:


----------



## wilsman77

sarakas said:


> Thank you all, I didn't want to take over the op but just point out that TBH Spain is no different really from the UK ( which I love! ). It's just sooooo hot in the summer and soooo cold in the winter!
> 
> I will keep you updated, if you want?! And maybe takeover a few post's here or there! Lol x


"TBH Spain is no different really from the UK " what utter drivel....


----------



## wilsman77

soulboy said:


> It's only as cheap as chips if you have a healthy bank account.Try telling that to the Spanish people who havn't and who have had to go live back with their parents and the ones waiting to go olive picking for 4 or 5euros an hour.T-----s like you are two a penny here.Thank god I have not got you on my barby list or as a next door neighbour.Off for a meal now folks at our local venta where they do a special menu for OAP's.One thing is sure wilsman you are good for a laugh if nothing else.


look soulman, you tel me where in the UK you can get a full english breakfast for Euro 2.00 or £1.66p...... GL with that one.


----------



## sarakas

wilsman77 said:


> "TBH Spain is no different really from the UK " what utter drivel....


No need to be rude


----------



## Lynn R

wilsman77 said:


> look I am sorry if i have offended you joJo, next time i am in Spain i will buy you a nice Ruby Sherry............


So sophisticated he doesn't know Ruby refers to port and not to sherry.

Bet he orders gazpacho and complains because it's cold.

Sounds a lot like Del Boy wanting to know what year the Beaujolais Nouveau is.


----------



## mrypg9

Lynn R said:


> So sophisticated he doesn't know Ruby refers to port and not to sherry.
> 
> Bet he orders gazpacho and complains because it's cold.
> 
> Sounds a lot like Del Boy wanting to know what year the Beaujolais Nouveau is.


Perhaps he meant 'Ruby' as in 'Ruby Murray = curry'?


----------



## Pesky Wesky

Come on everyone.
This getting silly and stopped being a help to the OP, who I've written to to aplogise, long ago.
This thread is going nowhere and doing no good for anyone.
Ignore it and use your posting energies elsewhere would be my advice


----------



## ABERAFON

torre2014 said:


> Hi guys and girls
> 
> Im planning a move to torrevieja in 12 months time ive been holidaying there for around 10 years , and have decided to try and make a life over there , werw a family of 4 including 2 children aged 4 and 7
> 
> Im really stuck on the budgeting side of the move and a couple other issues
> 
> I.e public schooling for the children how too and if theres fees etc , does rent include the water elec etc? If not what else can i axpect to pay on top of rent?
> 
> Initially coming for 3 months , ill be coming as a self employed builder , and will be taking cards around EVERY ex pat bar and club , thanms in advance for any info


Hi Torre,

I don't live in Spain anymore, nor do I own any property there now. I visit regularly as I have friends there and did some business there once. You have to make up your own mind as to whether or not you wish to give it a try - many say better to have tried and failed than not to try at all - however, that is okay whilst it is just you but when you have a family you have to consider all of the effects and implications. 

Life is very tough at the moment in Spain with high unemployment rates and little spare cash about in both the Spanish or Ex pat community. Whilst I was living there I knew a very good English builder who was doing very well and had many recommendations, I used him on my villa a few times, excellent work. He came across to Spain with quite a lot of savings, money to buy a house, married with 2 children. Him and his wife both spoke reasonable Spanish and his parents lived and still live in Spain. He went back to the UK after 4 years in 2012 as he could not make enough money to keep going in Spain because as good as he was. when he did get work, he was down to 30 or 40 euros a day by the time he decided to leave because people could not really afford to pay for the work at the going rate and there were so many people trying to get what work there was. His eldest child (8) could not cope in the local school so had to go to an international school at a big cost. When he left he had used all his savings and he had been careful with his money, his villa is till up for sale.

3 months money is not enough, you need 12 -18 months and a fall back position, serving the ex pat community will not generate enough money at present and has not done for some years.

In the UK there is plenty of building work available and builders are busy, if your really want to make a life in Spain, start by buying a holiday home and develop from there over a few years and then go out to live if and when things recover. Many people who advise against it on this site are not negative just realistic as to your chances at present.


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## xabiaxica

I've removed the worst of the insulting posts from our now ex-member - a total of 29 including the few which had quoted him  


as you were


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## mrypg9

Fair enough.


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## Horlics

There's an expression.... reassuringly expensive.

A 2 Euro full English breakfast certainly isn't reassuringly expensive. I'd wonder what I was eating.



wilsman77 said:


> look soulman, you tel me where in the UK you can get a full english breakfast for Euro 2.00 or £1.66p...... GL with that one.


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## mrypg9

I doubt I'd want a full English breakfast in Spain anyway...

Fried eggs, bacon, bread, sausage, beans, mushrooms, tomatos in 30 C....


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## snikpoh

mrypg9 said:


> I doubt I'd want a full English breakfast in Spain anyway...
> 
> Fried eggs, bacon, bread, sausage, beans, mushrooms, tomatos in 30 C....


You might be surprised as to how popular that is with the Spanish - if they know about it.


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## Lynn R

mrypg9 said:


> I doubt I'd want a full English breakfast in Spain anyway...
> 
> Fried eggs, bacon, bread, sausage, beans, mushrooms, tomatos in 30 C....


The only time I ever eat one now is if I'm staying in a UK hotel - I enjoy it at the time but afterwards I feel queasy all day.

I'd certainly find one on offer for €2 eminently resistible.


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## mrypg9

Lynn R said:


> The only time I ever eat one now is if I'm staying in a UK hotel - I enjoy it at the time but afterwards I feel queasy all day.
> 
> I'd certainly find one on offer for €2 eminently resistible.


Ditto.

The best ever fried bread can be found in the dining room of NASUWT HQ at Rednal, Birmingham.
On occasion I've got up at 4.30 a.m. to drive there before a meeting, just to have breakfast .
Coffee's not too hot though, in both senses of the word.


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## tarot650

i bet you wont get this for 2eu


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## Helenameva

mrypg9 said:


> The best ever fried bread can be found in the dining room of NASUWT HQ at Rednal, Birmingham.(


NOW you tell us. I lived about 10 miles from there up until a couple of months ago. Although I'm popping back in a couple of weeks so maybe I could go, or is NASUWT a union office part of Rover now defunct?


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## extranjero

soulboy said:


> i bet you wont get this for 2eu


Wot, no bacon?


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## mrypg9

extranjero said:


> Wot, no bacon?


Hidden away somewhere under that lot...


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## mrypg9

Helenameva said:


> NOW you tell us. I lived about 10 miles from there up until a couple of months ago. Although I'm popping back in a couple of weeks so maybe I could go, or is NASUWT a union office part of Rover now defunct?


Nothing to do with Rover...it's NASUWT HQ.

That is a beautiful part of England.
I used to enjoy steak and chips at the Hare and Barrel, I think it was called.


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## tarot650

extranjero said:


> Wot, no bacon?


It's under the hash browns Sherlock.


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## Lynn R

soulboy said:


> It's under the hash browns Sherlock.


I don't believe hash browns have any place in a full English breakfast.

What next - will they be expecting us to start pouring maple syrup all over our breakfast plates?

Resist these nasty foreign corruptions creeping into our food - get Nigel on the case toot sweet, I say.


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## tarot650

Lynn R said:


> I don't believe hash browns have any place in a full English breakfast.
> 
> What next - will they be expecting us to start pouring maple syrup all over our breakfast plates?
> 
> Resist these nasty foreign corruptions creeping into our food - get Nigel on the case toot sweet, I say.


Just because you don't thnk they don't have a place on an English breakfast doesn't mean other people don't like them.Remember years ago when we used to use the Little Chefs they used to be on the breakfasts then.


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