# TEFL Course



## Rustyo

_I'm due back in Thailand on the 15th August, and have been contemplating taking a TEFL Course.
Before i commit my finance's, i would like to know if any of you have taken this course and did you manage to find a teaching position._


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## ZTraveler

*Additional thought to piggy-back on your question, please?*

In my investigating the same thing, I was told that, even with the TEFL certification, Thailand requires at least a BA degree in order to get work visas.

My friend in Laos took a 100 hour course online for TESL, and found a job, no problem. They said it was different in Thailand. So, my additional questions (since they are related):


Is a TESL certificate sufficient to be able to work in Thailand?
Does one require a BA degree in addition to TESL certificate to get work visa?
Does Thailand recognize only _CERTAIN_ TEFL/TESOL schools for certification?

Sorry to horn in, but it was so similar I thought I would add on.

The one I looked at, which also stated I need a BA degree in addition, was from TEFL Courses - 120Hour Online TEFL Course

Hope this doesn't hinder your original question RustyO...


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## Song_Si

the TEFL debate . . . 

when I did my Thai language course on Phuket the school also provided _Ministry of Education-approved_ TEFL training and the students also did the language course; I kept in touch with some of them - 3 from Oz, 1 SA, 1 NZ, 1 England. Only the one from SA had a degree and she got a part-time teaching job (on Phuket the competition is intense), the NZer tried selling real estate for a year after an attempt at private school teaching, the 3 from OZ have all gone home having never found jobs, the Englishman remains living there but never got a teaching position. The catch was they all wanted to stay on Phuket and didn't stand a chance against B.Ed qualified people.

recommend you Google for Thailand teaching jobs, and look at ajarn the main tefl site for Thailand - resources and jobs too - had a quick look through the jobs and many require the degree be education-related B.Ed not a general BA. The newbies section provides a lot of info - including: _In the eyes of the Thai Ministry of Education and the Thai Labor Department, a qualified teacher has a bachelor’s degree (preferably in education) and at least one year’s teaching experience._

*****

_Is it necessary to have a degree to teach in Thailand?_
Those who wish to work in any job that requires a teacher’s licence will need an academic degree to teach in Thailand. 
All government schools require teachers to have a teacher’s licence. 
Getting a work permit is difficult for those without a degree; some would say that it is now almost impossible. 
There are individuals who do get jobs without a college degree, but these are often of the illegal variety and without a work permit. 
The penalties for working in Thailand without a work permit are potentially very serious.


There are opportunities with private schools - ie not government schools - for those without a degree. _Some_ schools in isolated areas _may_ consider applicants without a degree. 

The Thai academic year commenced in mid-May.

The largest government school in the city near us has eight young English teachers, all education degree qualified they recruit them direct from UK for a one year contract. We met them in a cafe a few weeks back - easy to spot they are the palest people ever! There is one English teacher in our town's school, he is UK qualified with a further 13yrs exp in NZ high schools.


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## duncbUK

Hi
I worked in a government school for a few years and in order to get a work permit had to present my degree. That said I worked alongside someone for about 8 months who did not have a degree or a work permit.

Technically you need a degree to work, ideally you need a teaching qualification (CELTA is apparently the best), any on line TEFL will carry little credence with a decent school.

Whatever you choose try to avoid working through an agency
good luck

##


ZTraveler said:


> In my investigating the same thing, I was told that, even with the TEFL certification, Thailand requires at least a BA degree in order to get work visas.
> 
> My friend in Laos took a 100 hour course online for TESL, and found a job, no problem. They said it was different in Thailand. So, my additional questions (since they are related):
> 
> 
> Is a TESL certificate sufficient to be able to work in Thailand?
> Does one require a BA degree in addition to TESL certificate to get work visa?
> Does Thailand recognize only _CERTAIN_ TEFL/TESOL schools for certification?
> 
> Sorry to horn in, but it was so similar I thought I would add on.
> 
> The one I looked at, which also stated I need a BA degree in addition, was from TEFL Courses - 120Hour Online TEFL Course
> 
> Hope this doesn't hinder your original question RustyO...


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## Rustyo

Thank you for all your comments and some interesting advice. It seems the only way to stay in Thailand these days is to retire there unless you want to live illegally.

I'm going to have to research some more in this case. 

I do have a Degree in I.T and Buisness Study, along with 3 MCP's, and CISCO qualified but trying to source an IT job is even harder.

I'm also getting married this year to my Thai GF, which is going to make things even tougher without a decent income.

Anyway better end it here before i go off the related thread.

Thank you again.


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## wildfk

*Tefl*



Rustyo said:


> _I'm due back in Thailand on the 15th August, and have been contemplating taking a TEFL Course.
> Before i commit my finance's, i would like to know if any of you have taken this course and did you manage to find a teaching position._




" finance's" - you might want to brush up on your grammar too?

The best qualifications for TEFL are gained "back home" - Trinity or CELTA etc.
Having said that, if you only want to teach in Thailand, you could get away with one of the courses here.

I take it you have a degree? - make sure you bring the ORIGINAL documents with you.


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## falangjim

Rustyo said:


> _I'm due back in Thailand on the 15th August, and have been contemplating taking a TEFL Course.
> Before i commit my finance's, i would like to know if any of you have taken this course and did you manage to find a teaching position._



You sound like you're in a bit of a pickle. From what I've read of your posts, you have a degree in IT, but seem to want to give English teaching a try since that is how you can legally work here. Just some background, I have a B.A. (not related to education) and a CELTA which I got in Bangkok 2004. It was quite easy to get a teaching job back then and with your degree and a TEFL, you'd probably have no problem here either. The salaries can be dismal. Do you our your future wife have any connections with a school that could offer you something more suited to what you'll need? I'm just saying that it's not as easy to live on 30K-40K TBHT/month with these fly-by-night English Institutes. Try to avoid them. Best of luck!


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## wildfk

*motives?*

If you want to have a year's experience of Thailand then a cheap teaching job at a govt school is one way....I suppose.

However if you are thinking that teaching is a good way to live in Thailand, one must question your motives as a teacher.

Teaching is not about YOU....it's about your customers - the students - whether at school, night school or in business - if your motivation is just to get a visa and salary I think you will soon either get bored or get sacked.

Teaching requires two main skills - one is a working knowledge of English - speaking it is not enough - you have to communication it to others so it has to include a knowledge of syntax grammar etc etc. Very few people seem to have this when they first come to the job.

The other is some knowledge of educational theory, how people learn and how to convey the language to your students at all levels.

Some fake or half-baked certificate from the internet will only help you get a crappy job and you will inevitably get a reputation as a crappy teacher, so career advancement will prove very difficult.

If on the other hand you can and want to teacher you'll find it possible to move up the ladder and get better work.


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## Rustyo

wildfk said:


> " finance's" - you might want to brush up on your grammar too?
> 
> The best qualifications for TEFL are gained "back home" - Trinity or CELTA etc.
> Having said that, if you only want to teach in Thailand, you could get away with one of the courses here.
> 
> I take it you have a degree? - make sure you bring the ORIGINAL documents with you.


Thank you for your kind remarks regarding my grammar wildfk. 

If you were as quick to note my mistake as reading my post, you would have seen i do have a degree but not in the relevant subject.

I have looked at courses run in the UK but most of them are online with little classroom involvement.

Most public schools do require a degree for a work permit to be granted. However the private schools are more interested in your teaching abilities and approach towards the students.

My future mother-in-law is a teacher in Surat Thani, this could open a few doors.

I will post any relevant information i find, to help others in the future.


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## falangjim

wildfk said:


> If you want to have a year's experience of Thailand then a cheap teaching job at a govt school is one way....I suppose.
> 
> However if you are thinking that teaching is a good way to live in Thailand, one must question your motives as a teacher.
> 
> Teaching is not about YOU....it's about your customers - the students - whether at school, night school or in business - if your motivation is just to get a visa and salary I think you will soon either get bored or get sacked.
> 
> Teaching requires two main skills - one is a working knowledge of English - speaking it is not enough - you have _to communication_ it to others so it has to include a knowledge of syntax grammar etc etc. Very few people seem to have this when they first come to the job.
> 
> The other is some knowledge of educational theory, how people learn and how to convey the language to your students at all levels.
> 
> Some fake or half-baked certificate from the internet will only help you get a crappy job and you will inevitably get a reputation as a crappy teacher, so career advancement will prove very difficult.
> 
> If on the other hand you can and want _to teacher_ you'll find it possible to move up the ladder and get better work.


Last I checked, _communication_ and _teacher_ were nouns. You use them as verbs. If you're going to call someone else out on their grammar, you'd better have yours air-tight.


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## wildfk

falangjim said:


> Last I checked, _communication_ and _teacher_ were nouns. You use them as verbs. If you're going to call someone else out on their grammar, you'd better have yours air-tight.


Very true! - but I don't aspire to be a teacher.


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## Rustyo

We are all human and prone to mistakes.


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## wildfk

Degrees do not have to be in Education or English....recruiters prefer a "writing-based" course or one that shows a use of English language but as far as I know that is not a legal requirement, only a degree.

Any teaching job in a govt. school requires a teaching licence and in most private schools too if teaching children. 
Whatever school you teach in if you want a work permit, you'll have to show the dept. of labour a degree and a TEFL certificate. 
Some schools may have a "special relationship"with the local authorities, but the base requirements are TEFL cert. and degree.

As for UK based courses, they are all over the country... - I don't know how you got the impression that they are mostly on-line. Check out Trinity courses and International House for a start.

Classroom involvement is always limited on basic certificate courses as they are usually only about one month duration.
As I mentioned there is still a lot of theory TEFL that needs to be learned - it is a particular method for teaching English and has certain characteristics techniques that need to be learned. A good qualification from UK or other home country will enable you to get work almost anywhere in the world. An obscure qualification from Thailand that “specialises” in teaching in Thailand virtually negates itself as a qualification to teach elsewhere.

A good course will leave you no free time for the duration - you can forget about going out in the evening....homework will keep you off the streets.

Classroom experience is bound to be limited on any TEL course and too much would mean you are missing out on theory in a limited time. THere will be plenty of time to get classroom experience once you start working - although some experience in a class is essential it really isn't something that you can offer on a short TEFL course to any great extent.

If your course in at a language school - of which there are hundreds in the UK you will be able to get some experience with their own students.....and sometimes in local schools.

Once you start working most private schools worth their salt should offer some kind of further training professional development program etc. However at a local govt school I’m can’t see what they can do - except ask the other teachers for advice.

Good teachers can develop courses and provide interesting lessons day in, day out, regardless of who their students are. It requires creativity and application. If you think it is just an easy way to get a visa - think again.
At govt schools the hours are not long and the holidays are good. But the salaries are poor and many schools expect their teachers to remain on the premises regardless of whether they are teaching or not.

If you teach business the potential is there to earn better money, but the hours tend to be anti-social - evenings and week-ends - and the holidays are much less.

If you intend to teach in industry it often involves travelling around to the local factories and industrial estates - some schools provide transport for this - but if you want work in this area, get a vehicle - it makes you that much more employable. You also need to be in an area that has industry!
Many govt. school teachers moonlight with private classes and evening work in industry. This can bring your income up a bit. 
[It is worth bearing in mind that your work permit is job and location specific - so technically speaking you are in breach of your permit if you work outside your school. This is unlikely ever to prove a problem unless you’ve upset someone who can then ring up immigration and drop you in it.]


“However the private schools are more interested in your teaching abilities and approach towards the students.” - don’t kid yourself....

In the end you’ll hear lots of stories about people working without degrees etc. but if you are going to be employable by the majority of those in EL education, you’ll need a TEFL certificate, a degree in anything and a non-immigrant “B” visa. will be able to get some experience with their own students.....and sometimes in local schools.

...and then there's the "Thai Culture" course............


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## Rustyo

wildfk said:


> Degrees do not have to be in Education or English....recruiters prefer a "writing-based" course or one that shows a use of English language but as far as I know that is not a legal requirement, only a degree.
> 
> Any teaching job in a govt. school requires a teaching licence and in most private schools too if teaching children.
> Whatever school you teach in if you want a work permit, you'll have to show the dept. of labour a degree and a TEFL certificate.
> Some schools may have a "special relationship"with the local authorities, but the base requirements are TEFL cert. and degree.
> 
> As for UK based courses, they are all over the country... - I don't know how you got the impression that they are mostly on-line. Check out Trinity courses and International House for a start.
> 
> Classroom involvement is always limited on basic certificate courses as they are usually only about one month duration.
> As I mentioned there is still a lot of theory TEFL that needs to be learned - it is a particular method for teaching English and has certain characteristics techniques that need to be learned. A good qualification from UK or other home country will enable you to get work almost anywhere in the world. An obscure qualification from Thailand that “specialises” in teaching in Thailand virtually negates itself as a qualification to teach elsewhere.
> 
> A good course will leave you no free time for the duration - you can forget about going out in the evening....homework will keep you off the streets.
> 
> Classroom experience is bound to be limited on any TEL course and too much would mean you are missing out on theory in a limited time. THere will be plenty of time to get classroom experience once you start working - although some experience in a class is essential it really isn't something that you can offer on a short TEFL course to any great extent.
> 
> If your course in at a language school - of which there are hundreds in the UK you will be able to get some experience with their own students.....and sometimes in local schools.
> 
> Once you start working most private schools worth their salt should offer some kind of further training professional development program etc. However at a local govt school I’m can’t see what they can do - except ask the other teachers for advice.
> 
> Good teachers can develop courses and provide interesting lessons day in, day out, regardless of who their students are. It requires creativity and application. If you think it is just an easy way to get a visa - think again.
> At govt schools the hours are not long and the holidays are good. But the salaries are poor and many schools expect their teachers to remain on the premises regardless of whether they are teaching or not.
> 
> If you teach business the potential is there to earn better money, but the hours tend to be anti-social - evenings and week-ends - and the holidays are much less.
> 
> If you intend to teach in industry it often involves travelling around to the local factories and industrial estates - some schools provide transport for this - but if you want work in this area, get a vehicle - it makes you that much more employable. You also need to be in an area that has industry!
> Many govt. school teachers moonlight with private classes and evening work in industry. This can bring your income up a bit.
> [It is worth bearing in mind that your work permit is job and location specific - so technically speaking you are in breach of your permit if you work outside your school. This is unlikely ever to prove a problem unless you’ve upset someone who can then ring up immigration and drop you in it.]
> 
> 
> “However the private schools are more interested in your teaching abilities and approach towards the students.” - don’t kid yourself....
> 
> In the end you’ll hear lots of stories about people working without degrees etc. but if you are going to be employable by the majority of those in EL education, you’ll need a TEFL certificate, a degree in anything and a non-immigrant “B” visa. will be able to get some experience with their own students.....and sometimes in local schools.
> 
> ...and then there's the "Thai Culture" course............


Thank you for your information, it seems there is a lot more researching to do on my behalf.
One of the reasons i first looked at the TEFL course was purely to get a foothold in a school and maybe increase my chances of teaching an I.T related subject.
I have searched the net vigorously for a position within the I.T industry but most companies want Thai nationals. I will however continue to submit my C.V and hope for a response in the future.
The Thai culture course is also something i want to do as my girlfriend is Thai, she is also trying her best to help out but she works very long hours as a nurse.
I'm not interested in working illegally as we are due to marry this year, that wouldn't go down very well if i were picked up by the police.

Once again, thank you wildfk for your posts.


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## augratin

wildfk said:


> Degrees do not have to be in Education or English....recruiters prefer a "writing-based" course or one that shows a use of English language but as far as I know that is not a legal requirement, only a degree.
> 
> Any teaching job in a govt. school requires a teaching licence and in most private schools too if teaching children.
> 
> Whatever school you teach in if you want a work permit, you'll have to show the dept. of labour a degree and a TEFL certificate.
> 
> Some schools may have a "special relationship"with the local authorities, but the base requirements are TEFL cert. and degree.


I find this amazing. I'm 47 and was thinking of going to Thailand for a teaching gig and then switching to a retirement visa when I turn 50 in a few years. I have what is called a First Professional Degree in the U.S. Strictly speaking it's not a bachelor's degree (the word "bachelor's" doesn't appear anywhere on the certificate) although the number of credit hours I needed to get the degree (150 credit hours) exceeds that of a traditional bachelor's degree (which is usually around 130 credit hours). This professional degree was good enough to get me a directorship with the US Federal Government at a grade GS15.

Anyway that degree was earned 27 years ago, what good would it be now? I would think employers would care more about recent employment history and relevant skills than about a dusty unrelated degree that is almost 3 decades old. I also have 14 years of teaching experience under my belt (albeit not as an English teacher), surely that should count for something?

I'll be watching this thread with interest; keep us updated Rusty!


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## wildfk

augratin said:


> I find this amazing. I'm 47 and was thinking of going to Thailand for a teaching gig and then switching to a retirement visa when I turn 50 in a few years. I have what is called a First Professional Degree in the U.S. Strictly speaking it's not a bachelor's degree (the word "bachelor's" doesn't appear anywhere on the certificate) although the number of credit hours I needed to get the degree (150 credit hours) exceeds that of a traditional bachelor's degree (which is usually around 130 credit hours). This professional degree was good enough to get me a directorship with the US Federal Government at a grade GS15.
> 
> Anyway that degree was earned 27 years ago, what good would it be now? I would think employers would care more about recent employment history and relevant skills than about a dusty unrelated degree that is almost 3 decades old. I also have 14 years of teaching experience under my belt (albeit not as an English teacher), surely that should count for something?
> 
> I'll be watching this thread with interest; keep us updated Rusty!


You are basically criticising the Thai rules concerning employment of foreigners as teachers. Well no-one is saying they are satisfactory - or even good - but that's the way it is at present. So you could either take up the issue with Thai immigration and the Dept of Labour or accept the situation as unsatisfactory as it is.

I believe that criticism of the way that teachers are employed in Thailand is very justified, but it might be better to start another thread about that.
(BTW - degrees are normally accredited on their academic value rather than the amount of hours)


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## wildfk

THere is a problem with some UK teachers who have taught for many years in UK primary and secondary levels, but have a "teacher's certificate" - this too is not a degree and may not be accepted by the Thai authorities.

It may well be worth your while checking up to see if your particular qualification IS in fact acceptable.


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## augratin

Yes I understand that's the way it is. I just find it incredible. My comments were rhetorical, mostly.


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## wildfk

I think if anyone DOES want to teach over here the thing to do is come and stay for a while - a few weeks at least.
Don't spend your time on the beach or in brothels, get to know the schools and other employers and review your options.
Face to face is the way to do it - If you are in the country you can contact potential employers directly and visit schools. 
If you are offered a job you can then set about sorting out visa and permit. If your school can't do this for you - I don't mean pay for it necessarily but sort out the paperwork and bureaucracy - then they are probably not worth working for.
Once you have a definite offer you can set about getting the documents - it is very likely you'll have to leave the country in order to get a non-immigrant "B" visa - Singapore is the nearest reliable place.
I have heard of people who have made the transition without leaving but this is certainly not the norm.

PS - you must have ORIGINALS of all your qualifications and documents.


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## augratin

Brothels? I've been there three times and never encountered such a thing. The worst thing I've seen is the massage boys on bicycles jingling their rattles. Anyway I have no interest in that. I thought that prostitution was considered a social evil and aggressively penalized by local police?



> Face to face is the way to do it - If you are in the country you can contact potential employers directly and visit schools.


Maybe that's a good idea. I go there about twice per year for vacation anyway. Next time I'll take copies of all my papers, prof. degree and certs and see if anyone bites. I've heard rumors that they'd take me just because I'm blonde and blue-eyed, so that they can use me as a trophy in front of the parents. I'm not sure if that was sarcasm/hyperbole or what, but I've heard it from more than one source.

Interesting thread, thanks everybody


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## Rustyo

wildfk said:


> I think if anyone DOES want to teach over here the thing to do is come and stay for a while - a few weeks at least.
> Don't spend your time on the beach or in brothels, get to know the schools and other employers and review your options.
> Face to face is the way to do it - If you are in the country you can contact potential employers directly and visit schools.
> If you are offered a job you can then set about sorting out visa and permit. If your school can't do this for you - I don't mean pay for it necessarily but sort out the paperwork and bureaucracy - then they are probably not worth working for.
> Once you have a definite offer you can set about getting the documents - it is very likely you'll have to leave the country in order to get a non-immigrant "B" visa - Singapore is the nearest reliable place.
> I have heard of people who have made the transition without leaving but this is certainly not the norm.
> 
> PS - you must have ORIGINALS of all your qualifications and documents.



Most of your posts on this subject have been rather negative so far, and not one has been to encourage anyone on the subject of aspiring to become a teacher.

As for visiting brothels and sitting on the beach, not all of us are interested in that, and what sort of an example would that set?
I am under no illusion men do visit for this reason, but not one who wants to live, respect, the culture and people of another country.

I played the field in my younger days when i served with the forces and to be honest it got boring. 

The only reason i am here is to learn and teach, and any positive information is welcome.


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