# Please i need your advice, if you know anything about singapore



## mohitrahuja

Hi Guys,

I need you advice, I am from New Delhi, India and currently in Melbourne, have completed my MBA (HRM) in distinction level, currently studying in Monash Uni, Melbourne a good ranking uni, having 3+ yrs exp. from India in general administration.

Q. my question is can i get a job in singapore as a fresh HR graduate in singapore? Singapore will count my exp or not i don't know ???? What salary can i expect as a Australian uni graduate having good score MBA but from low ranking uni and Masters in HR from Monash uni (world rank 45th).

Q. My wife is having Bachelor of Education degree from low ranking uni of India but having 6 years exp as primary teacher from New Delhi, India. Can she get a job in singapore as a teacher???? what can be the expected salary??? Singapore school recognize to teach in singapore schools????

Please guide friends, if you have info, our visa is going to expire soon and there is no hope to stay in OZ, in debt due to education loan and most of the people advicing me to go singapore but don't know anything?????

Thanks,

Mohit


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## simonsays

you got to read up the previous threads.

HR jobs are reserved for locals, and you stand a good chance with MNCs

As for the rest- you can search up ..

Cheers


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## sunny_73

Hi Mohit,

Why do you wanna go Singapore? Since you are in Oz and have some exp, you still can look for job in Oz, can't you?


Sunny


mohitrahuja said:


> Hi Guys,
> 
> I need you advice, I am from New Delhi, India and currently in Melbourne, have completed my MBA (HRM) in distinction level, currently studying in Monash Uni, Melbourne a good ranking uni, having 3+ yrs exp. from India in general administration.
> 
> Q. my question is can i get a job in singapore as a fresh HR graduate in singapore? Singapore will count my exp or not i don't know ???? What salary can i expect as a Australian uni graduate having good score MBA but from low ranking uni and Masters in HR from Monash uni (world rank 45th).
> 
> Q. My wife is having Bachelor of Education degree from low ranking uni of India but having 6 years exp as primary teacher from New Delhi, India. Can she get a job in singapore as a teacher???? what can be the expected salary??? Singapore school recognize to teach in singapore schools????
> 
> Please guide friends, if you have info, our visa is going to expire soon and there is no hope to stay in OZ, in debt due to education loan and most of the people advicing me to go singapore but don't know anything?????
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Mohit


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## mohitrahuja

*hi*



sunny_73 said:


> Hi Mohit,
> 
> Why do you wanna go Singapore? Since you are in Oz and have some exp, you still can look for job in Oz, can't you?
> 
> 
> Sunny



Hi Sunny,

mate i am on student visa and i can't extend my visa in OZ and also not qualifying for OZ permanenet residency, plus in OZ employers give work permit offer only to engineers, Doctors or IT people. As i am in HR field so its quite dificult.

There are so many indians working in singapore and curreny value is also good that's why i am wondering to work in singapore...

any advice or comment...

Mohit


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## sunny_73

Hi,

Here is good news for you.

_"Singapore's Trade and Industry Ministry estimates this year's economy to grow between 13 and 15 per cent. Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong had said recently that more than 100,000 extra foreigners were set to enter the workforce this year."_ {Today newspaper: 23 Jul 2010}

So, you are welcome. 
Good Luck.

Sunny




mohitrahuja said:


> Hi Sunny,
> 
> mate i am on student visa and i can't extend my visa in OZ and also not qualifying for OZ permanenet residency, plus in OZ employers give work permit offer only to engineers, Doctors or IT people. As i am in HR field so its quite dificult.
> 
> There are so many indians working in singapore and curreny value is also good that's why i am wondering to work in singapore...
> 
> any advice or comment...
> 
> Mohit


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## mohitrahuja

*Hi, Guys*



sunny_73 said:


> Hi,
> 
> Here is good news for you.
> 
> _"Singapore's Trade and Industry Ministry estimates this year's economy to grow between 13 and 15 per cent. Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong had said recently that more than 100,000 extra foreigners were set to enter the workforce this year."_ {Today newspaper: 23 Jul 2010}
> 
> So, you are welcome.
> Good Luck.
> 
> Sunny


Greatttttt news, but does any know in Singapore is there any job consultant directory so that i can striaght away send my resume rather keep daily looking jobs db and in add its clearly mentioned only "Singaporean or PR only".

Because in India where the "Naukri.com" is the main job portal and they have a service through which you can send your resume to 35000 indian job consultants by paying only $100 approx, so convinent, and whenever any related job comes they match with your profile and if selected maybe you can got a call for interview...

Pls. guide....

Thanks


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## simonsays

mohitrahuja said:


> Greatttttt news, but does any know in Singapore is there any job consultant directory so that i can striaght away send my resume rather keep daily looking jobs db and in add its clearly mentioned only "Singaporean or PR only".
> 
> Because in India where the "Naukri.com" is the main job portal and they have a service through which you can send your resume to 35000 indian job consultants by paying only $100 approx, so convinent, and whenever any related job comes they match with your profile and if selected maybe you can got a call for interview...
> 
> Pls. guide....
> 
> Thanks


I am sure I will be shot down for saying this- but google says JobStreet.com - Leading Job Site, Jobs for Malaysia, Singapore, India, Philippines, Indonesia, Japan, Thailand, Hong Kong, Top jobs, employment & recruitment network across Asia | JobsDB and Singapore Jobs - IT, Admin, Sales, Marketing, HR, Engineering, Management, Temp are the top Job Search Sites

While some jobs are reserved for Singaporeans/PRs considering the need to maintain a balance, also do note that I had replied your question in another thread : MNCs do employ a lot of expats for HR related jobs .. whereas SMEs do limit to locals / PRs due to EP quota issues

Good luck


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## simonsays

And anyway, you can check on agencies like Robert Walters and Hays - they do focus on servicing MNCs


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## mohitrahuja

*Hi, pls. guide*



ecureilx said:


> And anyway, you can check on agencies like Robert Walters and Hays - they do focus on servicing MNCs


Appreciate for writing and guiding really Thanksssssssss

But can you also able to guide me as per me profile what salary offer should i expect and designation in singapore, hopefully any idea:

*Having 4 yrs exp as a Office Administrator in New Delhi, India

*Master of Political Science Degree, India.

*Honours Bachelor of Political Science Degree, India. 

*Post Graduate Diploma in IT, India.

And then fly to Australia for higher studies:

*Master of Business Administration (Human Resources Management), Central Queensland University, (GPA 5.0 / on 7 scale), Distinction. 

*Pursuing Master of Human Resources Management, Monash University, Melbourne, completing in this year end.

Thankssssssss


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## simonsays

you can demand 150,000 per year or more .. honestly, if you get attracted by the MNCs / Banks - you can land a pay around there .. good luck


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## mohitrahuja

*Hi !!*



ecureilx said:


> you can demand 150,000 per year or more .. honestly, if you get attracted by the MNCs / Banks - you can land a pay around there .. good luck


Are you serious mate or are you pulling my leg, you mean approx S$ 12,500 per month??? 

Because i am not really sure more than S$5000 i can get, as everyone (organizations) recruit me as fresh graduate....

Please guide friends what you say.....

Thanks


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## simonsays

not kidding ... I am nowhere near that mark, but I know MNCs and Foreign banks pay that much or full expat terms for qualified staff.


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## bryann

Not to be a wet blanket, but I don't think that salary is realistic. If that kind of cash was handed out that readily, then Singapore would be pricing itself right out of the market.

I'm not in the know as far as your particular industry, but I do know that fresh grads tend to receive paltry pay until they've amassed some experience and proven their mettle a bit.

Don't forget, the whole upside of hiring staff from the Indian subcontinent is the lower wage cost Indians bring with them. 

You'll earn decent money later Mohit. But at first you'll have to pay your dues so to speak.

Just apply, see what happens.

Good luck.

Bry


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## simonsays

Bryann : I am not kidding.

No kidding: a condo in the East saw 150 indian families move in, all from the same employer, an overseas bank, and all the people who came in were given expat terms, plus mid 5 figure pay and All of the guys drive cars.

The days of Indian cheap labour is gone.

Just try to figure out who is the CEO of DBS for a start  

If the right connections are built, I am sure atleast top 4 figure salaries are being drawn for those with sufficient qualficiation ...


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## bryann

I'm in the East. Quite a few Indian executive staff here, it's true. I think there are very capable and very qualified Indian expats working in Singapore, sure. They work here on the basis of their skills, could have been from UK, Germany, Australia, anywhere really, as it's their skills/qualifications that got them their position here.

But the majority of Indian staff, especially back-office, administrative and mid-management are selected on the basis of their solid skills/low labor cost merit.

I simply don't know enough about specific pay structures, but 150K for a fresh grad seems a bit excessive to me. Let's see how Mohit gets on.

Keep us posted Mohit. 

Cheers.

Bry


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## simonsays

welcome to Singapore Bryann: the mid-admin-account staff you mention, like you see in middle east - flooded with Indians, is not the same here.

The admin-account-clerical stuff is done by locals, and the indians who are attracted here are handsomely paid by MNCs / Foreign Banks

And note - I am referring to MNCs and Foreign Banks, and if I believe some of the recruiters in places like RobWalt and HRS and so - they have been struggling to entice Indians of that level here, even when pay is grander ..

Well, that's why I suggested Mohit to head to MNCs and the like, and skip the smaller entities ..

Cheers


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## mohitrahuja

*Hi!!*



ecureilx said:


> welcome to Singapore Bryann: the mid-admin-account staff you mention, like you see in middle east - flooded with Indians, is not the same here.
> 
> The admin-account-clerical stuff is done by locals, and the indians who are attracted here are handsomely paid by MNCs / Foreign Banks
> 
> And note - I am referring to MNCs and Foreign Banks, and if I believe some of the recruiters in places like RobWalt and HRS and so - they have been struggling to entice Indians of that level here, even when pay is grander ..
> 
> Well, that's why I suggested Mohit to head to MNCs and the like, and skip the smaller entities ..
> 
> Cheers


 Bryann and Ecureilx

I appreciate for your guidance and for writing & spending your valuable time.:clap2:

now i can say i have some motivation and energy to think about singapore...

I have start looking daily DBjobs, job monster etc website to understand the market as per my profile and what i think i can must fetch S$ 4000 - $5000 per month salary, definately i hope for more and more because i have a 3+ exp as a Office Administrator in reputed organizations in India plus 

*Master of Political Science Degree, India.

*Honours Bachelor of Political Science Degree, India. 

*Post Graduate Diploma in IT, India.

And then fly to Australia for higher studies:

*Master of Business Administration (Human Resources Management), Central Queensland University, (GPA 5.0 / on 7 scale), Distinction. 

*Pursuing Master of Human Resources Management, Monash University (world ranking 45th best uni), Melbourne, completing in this year end.

It also depend on MNC's that they evaluate my previous experience and not think me as fresh graduate who is starting first time in corporate environment......

Thanks


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## simonsays

HI Mohit,

not to sound obnoxious, but I would take exception to Bryanns advice "But at first you'll have to pay your dues so to speak."  

All said in jest, when I landed a job here in Singapore, 15 yeas ago, I thought I have to start low - damn I was wrong - a lot of guys who came after me demanded twice of my pay and they got it .. and since I started low, I had to face the HR in every company where they work your possible pay as a percentage increment of the current pay  And 15 years later, I haven't been able to double my pay from what I got when I landed here, because - during the economic turmoils, our pay was cut and then the next employer starts offering a percentage increment from the current pay AGAIN !!!! 

Damn - that is Singapore.

You may find a team, all of equal designation, and the team lead may be getting 5,000 and the Engineer under the team lead maybe getting 7,000 -all because the engineer demanded and insisted. . 

So - take it easy, try to visit sites like Salary.sg - Your Salary in Singapore (which is a bit out of proportion but you get the idea there) and work your way ....

Cheer mate and Good luck

Bryann: I quoted you in jest - no offence


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## bryann

The thing with this kind of debate is that noone is wrong, as such. I myself was keen to live here, so when I got the opportunity, I went for it. Perhaps I could have upped the pay ante, perhaps they would've rejected my demands, in which case I would've missed a number of fantastic years.

I think I did the right thing in not maxing out my demands.

The point is, when you're good, you'll end up getting what you deserve, because your talents will be noted and rewarded over time. Me, I'm not "kancheong" (hokkien for afraid to lose out). Gaining experience, learning the ropes, working to live, all of this is important to me. I'm convinced the money will come from here.

But then, to each is own. If you're the driven ambitious type, then go for it.

BTW, none taken ecureilx 

Bry


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## bryann

P.S. Let us know how you get on Mohit


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## mohitrahuja

*Hi!!*



bryann said:


> P.S. Let us know how you get on Mohit


:clap2:THANKS FOR THIS LONG DEBATE, I APPRECIATE FOR YOUR HELP AND ADVICES, ALL THE BEST TO YOU MATES, YES I WILL INFORM YOU THAT WHAT'S GOING ON......


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## mohitrahuja

*Singapore Immigration Lawyer / consultant*

Hi Guys,

Do you have any name / suggestion in your mind for about Singapore Immigration Lawyer or consultant for appying work permit pass / LPR.:ranger:

Thankssss:clap2:


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## simonsays

you dont need a lawyer to apply for work pass - work pass is applied by the employer

For LPR - there is an accredited agent - think SMA something .. 

PS: Unlike other countries - Singapore does not accredit 'immigration lawyers' though there are some lawyers who claim to do such work ..


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## mohitrahuja

*Hi!!*



ecureilx said:


> you dont need a lawyer to apply for work pass - work pass is applied by the employer
> 
> For LPR - there is an accredited agent - think SMA something ..
> 
> PS: Unlike other countries - Singapore does not accredit 'immigration lawyers' though there are some lawyers who claim to do such work ..


Thanks ecureilx,

I got it, the agent is SMC Management Consultants Pte Ltd, they are charging S$ 1500 for LPR application and it takes approx 6 months to process and if visa approved then person can come to singapore and search job in within one year.

These guys are not giving complete info and insisting that first apply then we will guide you.

Is any one there who have applied for this LPR?????

Because my question is: if my visa is approved and if i don't fly in between one year and want to enter later on???? then what happen???

Thanks:clap2:


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## simonsays

A few Indonesians obtained it .. and they all went through SMC

Landed Permanent Residence - LPR Singapore


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## mohitrahuja

*Employment Pass of Singapore*

Hi,

As an individual / professional can i apply for Employment pass and can search job if EP visa is approved OR only if any org. offer you a job then only i can apply??? Bit confuse,  pls. guide......

Thanks


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## simonsays

Mohit: EP IS ONLY ISSUED ONCE YOU HAVE AN EMPLOYER, AND AN EMPLOYER APPLIES FOR IT - ANY CONFUSION ON THAT ? And if you switch job, you have to change your EP - cancel and apply for a new one that states who is your new employer. 

And you can't apply for an EP and then change your employer, as MOM will track such 'job switchers' and your subsequent EP application maybe reviewed carefully, and there will be a question about your previous pass under which you were granted a pass but you never worked .. 

Alternate is to get PEP (Please take some time and look it up at the MOM site) which has it's own do's and don'ts

Savvy ???


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## lazarus

*Salary Survey*



mohitrahuja said:


> Appreciate for writing and guiding really Thanksssssssss
> But can you also able to guide me as per me profile what salary offer should i expect and designation in singapore, hopefully any idea:
> *Having 4 yrs exp as a Office Administrator in New Delhi, India
> *Master of Political Science Degree, India.
> *Honours Bachelor of Political Science Degree, India.
> *Post Graduate Diploma in IT, India.
> And then fly to Australia for higher studies:
> *Master of Business Administration (Human Resources Management), Central Queensland University, (GPA 5.0 / on 7 scale), Distinction.
> *Pursuing Master of Human Resources Management, Monash University, Melbourne, completing in this year end.
> Thankssssssss


Hi,

You can estimate how much other in the past receive the salary with similar qualification and experience. Go to Singapore Manpower Ministry website (www(dot)mom(dot)gov(dot)sg) and search "Wage Search".

I hope this info help.

Regards,
Lazarus
-------------------------
Find jobs in Singapore The Smart Way
virtualhomesingapore(dot)com


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## mohitrahuja

*Hi i got my EPEC*

Hi, guys, i am back, i got my EPEC last week and its approved for 2 years. Now planning to reach Singapore in March second week......

I was just wondering if anyone can reply that which area / area's of Singapore you suggest to a family, where surrounding is good with good locality????

I mean to say like no one who is married, have young children want to live near red light areas like GEYLANG in Singapore, they need a good locality where their family live peacefully.

I am searching information every day but need your valuable advice as well.

Thanks...:clap2:

:ranger:


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## simonsays

mohitrahuja said:


> I was just wondering if anyone can reply that which area / area's of Singapore you suggest to a family, where surrounding is good with good locality????


Singapore is so small, you are never far from anything, unless you fret over the travel distance of 10 minutes vs 30 minutes .. 



> I mean to say like no one who is married, have young children want to live near red light areas like GEYLANG in Singapore, they need a good locality where their family live peacefully.


You will be surprised, even though one end of Geylang is called Red Light, the area across Geylang Road is decent and clean enough that even some buddhist temples are located there, plus clan associations, and Singapore's favorite Durian seller, and .. the Historic and ever important Malay Village too is located - just that Lorong 2 - 28 is a designated area doesnt mean nothing [/QUOTE]


Come here, and then you will know what I mean - when I came here, I was staying in Yishun, working in Geylang: and when I saw the malls, grocery shops, and little conveniences I thought Yishun was the best area, and spent about 1 hour everyday to work - till somebody took me to Jurong and lo and behold - it is a carbon copy of Yishun - and so was Eunos ...

Just a bit maybe different - like Little India loaded with Indian shops .. but 90% of Singapore is identically diversified - should I say more ??


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## mohitrahuja

Hi ecureilx,

lol!! thanks mate for reply, ya i know Singapore is such a multiculture country.....

Ok now i change my question a little bit for everyone..... Where i can find the most HBD Flats (1+1 or 2+1 flats) mean locality ????:confused2:

Any famous property agent around Singapore who deal mostly every area of Singapore and can able to provide maximum options???

Thanks

:ranger:


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## simonsays

mohitrahuja said:


> Ok now i change my question a little bit for everyone..... Where i can find the most HBD Flats (1+1 or 2+1 flats) mean locality ????:confused2:


Another quick answer: Everywhere 

You could ask somebody to send you a Sunday Straits times newspaper, as Sunday lists most property rental options .. 



> Any famous property agent around Singapore who deal mostly every area of Singapore and can able to provide maximum options???


In jest - as much as people hate lawyers, and insurance in Singapore, most of the people's favorite past time is to hate property agents  and it is common for almost everybody to be a property agent  Fret not - a browse in the internet such as the following gives just a sample  And it is tough to avoid property agents - even they follow you back to your house and if you lock your letter box, they slip their mailers under your door .. 

Singapore Jobs, Property, Cars and Classifieds - ST701.com 

HDB Flats, Condo & Room For Rent/Sale - Singapore Property

Service Classified Ads, Free Online Classifieds - 88DB Singapore


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## expatyen

mohitrahuja said:


> Hi, guys, i am back, i got my EPEC last week and its approved for 2 years. Now planning to reach Singapore in March second week......
> 
> I was just wondering if anyone can reply that which area / area's of Singapore you suggest to a family, where surrounding is good with good locality????
> 
> I mean to say like no one who is married, have young children want to live near red light areas like GEYLANG in Singapore, they need a good locality where their family live peacefully.
> 
> I am searching information every day but need your valuable advice as well.
> 
> Thanks...:clap2:
> 
> :ranger:


Hi Mohit! 

I am too is planning on moving to Singapore. I also am coming from an HR background but from International Hotels. I would like to ask if there's a cost for applying and getting the results of EPEC. I know the application is free, according to the MOM website, just want to know if getting the result and the EPEC itself has no charge at all.

I'm planning to come over to SG next month and try landing a job there.

Yenlane:


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## mohitrahuja

*hi!!*



expatyen said:


> Hi Mohit!
> 
> I am too is planning on moving to Singapore. I also am coming from an HR background but from International Hotels. I would like to ask if there's a cost for applying and getting the results of EPEC. I know the application is free, according to the MOM website, just want to know if getting the result and the EPEC itself has no charge at all.
> 
> I'm planning to come over to SG next month and try landing a job there.
> 
> Yenlane:


Hi Yen,

you are right their is no charge for EPEC, just try your luck online and see what happen, if your EPEC approved they send you through mail at your home...simple

as we are on same boat you can join me in linkdein or facebook as well as hopefully we meet each other while working in Singapore...lol!!!


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## simonsays

expatyen said:


> Hi Mohit!
> 
> I am too is planning on moving to Singapore. I also am coming from an HR background but from International Hotels. I would like to ask if there's a cost for applying and getting the results of EPEC. I know the application is free, according to the MOM website, just want to know if getting the result and the EPEC itself has no charge at all.
> 
> I'm planning to come over to SG next month and try landing a job there.
> 
> Yenlane:


If you can send me a brief of your background by PM, I can try to check around .. 

Do you have friends here ??

PS: you need to post atleast 6 messages before you get PM - me thinks ..


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## expatyen

mohitrahuja said:


> Hi Yen,
> 
> you are right their is no charge for EPEC, just try your luck online and see what happen, if your EPEC approved they send you through mail at your home...simple
> 
> as we are on same boat you can join me in linkdein or facebook as well as hopefully we meet each other while working in Singapore...lol!!!


Hi Mohit,

Thank you so much for your response. I am still currently here in the UAE and will be coming back to the Philippines next month for a few days, then Singapore. I will try EPEC then, maybe when I get back to the Pines. 

all the best for us! cheers!


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## expatyen

ecureilx said:


> If you can send me a brief of your background by PM, I can try to check around ..
> 
> Do you have friends here ??
> 
> PS: you need to post atleast 6 messages before you get PM - me thinks ..


Hi ecurelix,

oh, that would be great! i will try posting 6 messages then, I will send you my brief background as soon as I get the precious PM  Your help is greatl appreciated ecurelix! 

Thank you so much, and I am very excited to come there, yes, i also have LOTS of friends in Singapore too. 

-yen


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## simonsays

expatyen said:


> Hi ecurelix,
> 
> oh, that would be great! i will try posting 6 messages then, I will send you my brief background as soon as I get the precious PM  Your help is greatl appreciated ecurelix!
> 
> Thank you so much, and I am very excited to come there, yes, i also have LOTS of friends in Singapore too.
> 
> -yen


Meantime, do check whether you can prepare for EPEC - such as the scanned copy of your documents et al .. as per the EPEC site .. 

Cheers


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## expatyen

ecureilx said:


> Meantime, do check whether you can prepare for EPEC - such as the scanned copy of your documents et al .. as per the EPEC site ..
> 
> Cheers


To be honest, I already have all my documents ready.  have to be ahead of the game. 

i still have to post some more to get the PM option. I will apply for the EPEC when I get back to the Philippines next month, so I can get it directly at home. I am so excited of moving to another country. But my friends and colleagues are so sad and mad at me because I'm leaving.  --- i told them, come with me then... hehehe.


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## mohitrahuja

*medical system*



ecureilx said:


> Meantime, do check whether you can prepare for EPEC - such as the scanned copy of your documents et al .. as per the EPEC site ..
> 
> Cheers


@ ecureilx: I am just wondering about the medical insurance in Singapore, Will my employer provide it? Do I need to buy private insurance? Is there a national health system, and can I use it if I have work permit? and what about my wife as well......Please guide.....


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## simonsays

you need to buy insurance, if your employer doesnt' do so..

large companies provide Medical, for outpatient treatment, and subsidized surgery .. 

You can add your own, check on Mercer and IHP ...

National health care is for PR/Citizens..

Google medisave singapore


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## oz_sg10

mohitrahuja said:


> Hi ecureilx,
> 
> lol!! thanks mate for reply, ya i know Singapore is such a multiculture country.....
> 
> Ok now i change my question a little bit for everyone..... Where i can find the most HBD Flats (1+1 or 2+1 flats) mean locality ????:confused2:
> 
> Any famous property agent around Singapore who deal mostly every area of Singapore and can able to provide maximum options???
> 
> Thanks
> 
> :ranger:


Hi Mohit, I can see that you are from an HR background.. I do not want to discourage you but I want to advice you to make sure that you make a move only after doing adequate research. Singapore hires foreigners, Indians to be precise in the Investment banking area because most of the US/European banks have IT off shoring in the island. Other than IT(and sometimes finance and a few other vocations), I think it is kind of difficult for a foreigner to get a job with the kind of package you have in mind(keep in mind the rents which are going up every month). You might see a lot of openings on jobsdb/monster in your field but keep in mind that most of these jobs are aimed at Singaporeans/PRs. There is a lot of local talent available for these fields, and hence the probability of a company processing an EP for such a position is relatively low. Nevertheless, you can always come and try but I just want you to be aware of the ground reality..Singapore is one of the best and the safest cities in the world today.. Good luck with your job search and hope to hear something positive in this thread..


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