# Thinking of opening a sandwich/pies etc in Tenerife



## Sue R (Jan 29, 2011)

Hi we are moving over to South Tenerife in 2013. We are contemplating opening a shop selling andwiches/pastries etc. in the Las Americas/ Cristianos or surrounding areas.

It would be very usful if some of you guys would give me ideas about: What you miss, what would sell well.

Also ideas of the area it would do well in.

Does anyone know of a bakers that is already trading selling similar products?

Thanks 
Sue & Steve


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Sue R said:


> Hi we are moving over to South Tenerife in 2013. We are contemplating opening a shop selling andwiches/pastries etc. in the Las Americas/ Cristianos or surrounding areas.
> 
> It would be very usful if some of you guys would give me ideas about: What you miss, what would sell well.
> 
> ...


have you not run this sort of business before?


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## Sue R (Jan 29, 2011)

xabiachica said:


> have you not run this sort of business before?


Hi My parents ran a bakery shop for years. I have been in retail management for over 30 years so I am ok on the management side


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## bob_bob (Jan 5, 2011)

You know about rule changes? You need proof of income before you can setup these days.

To be honest, given the amount of bars selling sandwiches/rolls/pies cheap food et al will you make enough money to live? You have to pay about £60 a week 'NI' contribution even if you sell nothing. Many bars gone bust, up for sale, McDonalds, Burger King, fast food everywhere already.

Buy an Established Fast Food Restaurant Takeaway In Las Americas business for sale on Businesses For Sale .com setup for you.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Sue R said:


> Hi My parents ran a bakery shop for years. I have been in retail management for over 30 years so I am ok on the management side


that will help then

if you're aiming at expats you would be best selling whatever your parents sold

oh - & my Spanish friends LOVE sausage rolls!!

do bear in mind what bob -bob just posted though, about the new residency requirements


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## Sue R (Jan 29, 2011)

bob_bob said:


> You know about rule changes? You need proof of income before you can setup these days.
> 
> To be honest, given the amount of bars selling sandwiches/rolls/pies cheap food et al will you make enough money to live? You have to pay about £60 a week 'NI' contribution even if you sell nothing. Many bars gone bust, up for sale, McDonalds, Burger King, fast food everywhere already.
> 
> Buy an Established Fast Food Restaurant Takeaway In Las Americas business for sale on Businesses For Sale .com setup for you.


Thanks for the information. Is there any shop selling freshly made sandwiches with a choice of fillings and home made pies,pasties sausage rolls etc?
Is there anything that you used to buy from the bakers back home that you really miss?


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Sorry, a cautionary tale!

My friend opened a coffee shop/sandwich bar on the mainland. He had worked as a baker, running his own very successful business in the UK for many years and sold it, making a fortune. His wife was a confectioner and had run a similar business in the UK. They used the money from selling their UK business to buy a beautiful house and open this business in Spain. It lasted about 18 months. It went bust,. as far as I know, their house is still for sale at half the price they bought it for and they are both now back in England. He's in hiding because the he owes money in Spain and she lives in a council house with two of their children - oh and they're divorced!

They were millionaires when they arrived in Spain!

I know this doesnt happen to everyone, but dont think for one second it will be easy, cheap or stress free! My friends would say, the main credentials you'll need, regardless of experience will be fluency in the language, aware that you will be ripped off and total knowledge of how businesses and permissions work in Spain

Jo xxx


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## Sue R (Jan 29, 2011)

xabiachica said:


> that will help then
> 
> if you're aiming at expats you would be best selling whatever your parents sold
> 
> ...


Hi yes I will definately take that on board, it is a large sum of money to come out of any profits
So the sausage rolls are a definate must
What do you think about the sandwich bar, made to order sandwiches with the choice of fresh meet and salad? I was also thinking of cooking joints of meat to do a carvery type sandwich. what do you think?


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

jojo said:


> Sorry, a cautionary tale!
> 
> My friend opened a coffee shop/sandwich bar on the mainland. He had worked as a baker, running his own very successful business in the UK for many years and sold it, making a fortune. His wife was a confectioner and had run a similar business in the UK. They used the money from selling their UK business to buy a beautiful house and open this business in Spain. It lasted about 18 months. It went bust,. as far as I know, their house is still for sale at half the price they bought it for and they are both now back in England. He's in hiding because the he owes money in Spain and she lives in a council house with two of their children - oh and they're divorced!
> 
> ...


I remember you telling me about that 'as it happened'

I didn't know he'd gone 'into hiding' though


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Sue R said:


> Hi yes I will definately take that on board, it is a large sum of money to come out of any profits
> So the sausage rolls are a definate must
> What do you think about the sandwich bar, made to order sandwiches with the choice of fresh meet and salad? I was also thinking of cooking joints of meat to do a carvery type sandwich. what do you think?


we have one which opened in the tourist area of our town which does just that - going on appearances it's doing pretty well - but only the owners really know

a bookshop which everyone I know used for schoolbooks & any other books they wanted has just closed this week - everyone is shocked - it always seemed to be doing well

it didn't just cater to Brits, or any one other nationality - it had books in various languages, & the schoolbook market is pretty lucrative - that's at least 300€ per year per child - & they were the only supplier in that part of town


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## Sue R (Jan 29, 2011)

jojo said:


> Sorry, a cautionary tale!
> 
> My friend opened a coffee shop/sandwich bar on the mainland. He had worked as a baker, running his own very successful business in the UK for many years and sold it, making a fortune. His wife was a confectioner and had run a similar business in the UK. They used the money from selling their UK business to buy a beautiful house and open this business in Spain. It lasted about 18 months. It went bust,. as far as I know, their house is still for sale at half the price they bought it for and they are both now back in England. He's in hiding because the he owes money in Spain and she lives in a council house with two of their children - oh and they're divorced!
> 
> ...


Thanks Jo, I understand that people fail in all countries and all walks of life and it is very sad about your friends.
If I do decide to open a business and buy property believe me I dont think for one minute it will be easy or stress free.

I am coming over in February for 3 months to guage all of the pitfalls and hopefully meet people like yourself that will help and advise me about which solicitors/agents etc than can be trusted or not.

Cheers


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

xabiachica said:


> I remember you telling me about that 'as it happened'
> 
> I didn't know he'd gone 'into hiding' though


 I dont know where he is and his wife doesnt want to know! It was such a shame, they had wonderful food, cakes, sandwiches, sausage rolls, cheesecakes, cornish pasties............ oohhh the list is endless. What he found is that the locals, altho they loved the food, would only go there once a week as a treat and the tourists didnt want typically British food. So he then diversified, employing me as a waitress illegally for 200€ a month full time! (well they were friends), to do proper food, english breakfasts, toad in the hole etc., but altho that brought a few more in, it didnt cover the costs. He used to say, as a rule of thumb, we needed to take 400€ a day to break even. Most days we took less than half that. There was him, his wife, a young lad who helped out and me, the waitress. He used to be there at 5am and didnt finish til it closed at 6pm, six days a week. He tried opening at night, but it wasnt cost effective - he even rented it to a young couple in the evenings, who wanted to run it as a bistro, but that didnt work financially

We had the local ayuntamiento charging to allow tables outside, the health and safety people used to check the place and we'd have to close for the day and steam clean the place. He used to hide from the land lord. Other people used to come for money, but I dont know what that was about (I didnt want to know lol!!).

I guess this is why I've jumped onto this post with negativity. I'm sorry, it kinda rang alarm bells. These were professional and successful people, with a history of knowledge. They had four children and were a really lovely family. It was the lack of the Spanish language and knowledge of how things work in Spain that let them down. In fact they really should have stopped it earlier, but they hung on and tried to change, but it didnt work

Jo xxx


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## Sue R (Jan 29, 2011)

jojo said:


> I dont know where he is and his wife doesnt want to know! It was such a shame, they had wonderful food, cakes, sandwiches, sausage rolls, cheesecakes, cornish pasties............ oohhh the list is endless. What he found is that the locals, altho they loved the food, would only go there once a week as a treat and the tourists didnt want typically British food. So he then diversified, employing me as a waitress illegally for 200€ a month full time! (well they were friends), to do proper food, english breakfasts, toad in the hole etc., but altho that brought a few more in, it didnt cover the costs. He used to say, as a rule of thumb, we needed to take 400€ a day to break even. Most days we took less than half that. There was him, his wife, a young lad who helped out and me, the waitress. He used to be there at 5am and didnt finish til it closed at 6pm, six days a week. He tried opening at night, but it wasnt cost effective - he even rented it to a young couple in the evenings, who wanted to run it as a bistro, but that didnt work financially
> 
> We had the local ayuntamiento charging to allow tables outside, the health and safety people used to check the place and we'd have to close for the day and steam clean the place. He used to hide from the land lord. Other people used to come for money, but I dont know what that was about (I didnt want to know lol!!).
> 
> ...


Was it a large place that they had Jo? I am asking this because I was thinking of opening a small shop(not restaraunt) with just a couple of tables outside so it would be more like a takeaway so this would keep the overheads down.


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## DunWorkin (Sep 2, 2010)

We are on the Costa Blanca not very far from Benidorm.

I don't think there would be a market, even in the heavily expat areas, for sandwiches. Why would people want to buy sandwiches?

Maybe sausage rolls, scotch eggs, pork pies - that sort of thing but I can't see there would be a massive profit in that.

What we do need here is someone that sells fresh English bread and rolls. I don't mean the soggy frozen stuff. All the bread you buy here, even names like Kingsmill, are much too sweet for the English taste. I long for the bread I used to buy in our local Sainsburys in the UK. A delivery van going round the urbanisations selling bread would be good here.

Again though, I can't see a large profit to be made just from this sort of thing.

Also, I think the controls and licences here for selling food are very strict.

I have often thought that ice cream vans would be good here (Soft ice cream 99s etc) but from what I have read the controls on mobile food vendors is very strict.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Sue R said:


> Was it a large place that they had Jo? I am asking this because I was thinking of opening a small shop(not restaraunt) with just a couple of tables outside so it would be more like a takeaway so this would keep the overheads down.


I cant remember the number of tables/covers - probably 10 tables inside and 10 outside. He couldnt find anything smaller cos it had to have enough space at the back to accommodate the cooking and health and safety requirements, so ended up with more than he wanted. They initially wanted something similar to what you're looking for, but his wife, being a master confectioner, also wanted to do celebration cakes along side his sandwiches and bakery stuff.

If memory serves, they used to have a lot of trouble with the wholesalers and at one point, I was actually running across to the supermarket to buy cans of coke as people ordered them lol!! He was definitely being ripped off by some of the wholesalers, without a doubt. They saw him as a rich brit and he couldnt do anything but let them!

jo xxx


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## Sue R (Jan 29, 2011)

DunWorkin said:


> We are on the Costa Blanca not very far from Benidorm.
> 
> I don't think there would be a market, even in the heavily expat areas, for sandwiches. Why would people want to buy sandwiches?
> 
> ...


Thanks for your comments I think it must really vary from place to place as to what sells. I was on Majorca earlier in the year and there was a tiny shop selling fresh rolls with fresh meats,salads,tuna etc and every day for 2 weeks there were queues down the street. I would also make my own bread rolls.

Thats why im really interested in what the locals of Las Americas and Los Cristianos think.

Cheers


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## 90199 (Mar 21, 2010)

There doesn't seem to be anyone on this forum living in Playa del las Americas or Los Cristianos.


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## V-Dog (May 10, 2012)

Have you considered a franchise?

Is there a Subway in the area?


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## Sue R (Jan 29, 2011)

V-Dog said:


> Have you considered a franchise?
> 
> Is there a Subway in the area?


Hi funnily enough there is a subway in los cristianos and the franchise is for sale.
I will probably have a look at it but although it is in the centre it is kinda tucked away.


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## VFR (Dec 23, 2009)

Sue R said:


> Thanks for your comments I think it must really vary from place to place as to what sells. I was on Majorca earlier in the year and there was a tiny shop selling fresh rolls with fresh meats,salads,tuna etc and every day for 2 weeks there were queues down the street. I would also make my own bread rolls.
> 
> Thats why im really interested in what the locals of Las Americas and Los Cristianos think.
> 
> Cheers


Was that area a full of self catering apartments ?, that being the case then that may well explain the interest/demand.
I guess you will need to check out if L/Cristianos has a lot of Fully Inclusive hotels as many resorts do nowadays, as this of course means that you are likely to fail.


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## Sue R (Jan 29, 2011)

playamonte said:


> Was that area a full of self catering apartments ?, that being the case then that may well explain the interest/demand.
> I guess you will need to check out if L/Cristianos has a lot of Fully Inclusive hotels as many resorts do nowadays, as this of course means that you are likely to fail.


Hi yeah there are a lot of apartments that are self catering. I am not interested in a restaurant or bar because of the all inclusive in the hotels.
But I am thinking people may buy from a bakery shop for a snack inbetween meals.


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## NickZ (Jun 26, 2009)

DunWorkin said:


> I don't think there would be a market, even in the heavily expat areas, for sandwiches. Why would people want to buy sandwiches?


Usually office workers and school kids. 

Both assume people working or having money to spend.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

The best thing is to go over there a few times, do some research and fact finding. Learn about the legal side, the paper work, licences and permissions involved and somehow try to learn to read, write and speak Spanish as fluently as possible

Jo xxx


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## tarot650 (Sep 30, 2007)

JoJo,you wouldn't be talking about Taylors in Alhaurin El Grande would you?Remember them opening.Also at the time there was a documentary on Sky called the deli which he used to be on..Called in his shop a couple of times only because I was visiting the computer shop near it for some bits and to be quite truthful if somebody like that can't make it where there is a thriving expat community as has array of goods had to be seen then that says it all if he can't make it..Some people have still got dreams and personally I wouldn't knock them for it but in my honest opinion the bubble has burst.After living here for 18years have lost count of British food shops,fish and chip shops and every other business one can imagine gone bang. I suppose me and the other half can count ourselves lucky as we don't work and with our pensions gives us a nice life style although the days of eating out 4 and 5 days a week have gone.But still manage 2days a week in our local ventas.


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## tarot650 (Sep 30, 2007)

Sorry my post was a little off as mainland Spain but just read bob bob's post about the business.What one should remember here if it's a successful business why is it for sale?175,000 euros for a lease,then your rent every month,social,your taxes,running cost of the shop ie,electric,gas,water.Just think about it for a moment how many sandwiches,sausage rolls etc,etc,are you going to have to sell to cover these costs?That's before you ever think about wages.I applaud your idea but there has been many people before you who have been there,done it and got the tee shirt.The only people making money out of these business' are the people who own the freeholds of the properties and locals.Also if there's other shops in the vicinity the only way you are going to compete is by under cutting.The days are gone of opening your doors and expecting the till to be jingling all day long.I suppose in some respect I am a little bit biased as there is nothing at all in English food I miss.Sincerely wish you the best of luck


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

soulboy said:


> JoJo,you wouldn't be talking about Taylors in Alhaurin El Grande would you?Remember them opening.Also at the time there was a documentary on Sky called the deli which he used to be on..Called in his shop a couple of times only because I was visiting the computer shop near it for some bits and to be quite truthful if somebody like that can't make it where there is a thriving expat community as has array of goods had to be seen then that says it all if he can't make it..Some people have still got dreams and personally I wouldn't knock them for it but in my honest opinion the bubble has burst.After living here for 18years have lost count of British food shops,fish and chip shops and every other business one can imagine gone bang. I suppose me and the other half can count ourselves lucky as we don't work and with our pensions gives us a nice life style although the days of eating out 4 and 5 days a week have gone.But still manage 2days a week in our local ventas.



No, it wasnt Taylors, but I think my friends business possibly put the final nail in their coffin. 

Jo xxx


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## VFR (Dec 23, 2009)

Sue R said:


> Hi yeah there are a lot of apartments that are self catering. I am not interested in a restaurant or bar because of the all inclusive in the hotels.
> But I am thinking people may buy from a bakery shop for a snack inbetween meals.


I doubt it that is why I mentioned Fully Inclusive, these clients like to get value for money & hence they book this kind of hotel (well VFM in their eyes)


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## bob_bob (Jan 5, 2011)

Sue R said:


> Hi yeah there are a lot of apartments that are self catering. I am not interested in a restaurant or bar because of the all inclusive in the hotels.
> But I am thinking people may buy from a bakery shop for a snack inbetween meals.


Hi Sue, really you've shot yourself in the foot with that answer, look honestly at what you said.

"_I am not interested in a restaurant or bar because of the all inclusive in the hotels."_

They won't be walking around hungry
_
"But I am thinking people may buy from a bakery shop for a snack inbetween meals."_

Why? They will leave after breakfast, return maybe for lunch or leave after lunch and return for dinner. They won't be walking around hungry.

On holiday people have saved up cash to enjoy themselves so sit down in a little bar for a snack and a beer or walk the streets / maybe sit on the beach with a sandwich ? If self catering and off to the beach I would guess the majority would either pick the bar option or knock up a few rolls at home.

Buy premises?
All property prices have fallen and will continue to fall so worst case scenario you end up with a property that you either can't sell or if you do will loose a packet on.

Rent premises?
Stuck with a lease, will perhaps have to carry out construction work and fit out a kitchen. What are the hygiene regulations? What are the planning regulations? You don't speak the language so it will be a real pain in the bum working that one out. Plus you need to source equipment and supplies. Want to make your own bread and rolls and the difficulties jump up a level again.

Lots of young single people over there these days, sleep late, eat late, miss your shop completely and are happy enough chomping on a big mac/kebab so take into account all the other fast food available and I really believe you should step back and re-examine this project; I've thought about this idea today and in all honesty believe it will be a money pit and suck you dry


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## Sue R (Jan 29, 2011)

bob_bob said:


> Hi Sue, really you've shot yourself in the foot with that answer, look honestly at what you said.
> 
> "_I am not interested in a restaurant or bar because of the all inclusive in the hotels."_
> 
> ...


Well I can honestly say this is the very LAST time I will come onto this site! I have never met such self oppinionated, negative bunch of baffoons, who dont even live in the area I am looking at!!! Listening to you guys there should be nobody left in any business!! Where are you all living?? Famagusta!!!!
And as for the comment relating to me not speaking Spanish. I speak fluent Spanish, if anyone had bothered to ask! instead of being more interested in your making boring negative comments. I made it clear I did not want comments from people living in different areas. As I stated EVERY place is different. Enjoy your little lives and think about how you guys would have felt being greeted by a bunch of people like the ones that commented on my topic. I was never looking to make myself rich. I have finance to buy 2 apartments and just want a steady little income from a small lock up shop, not wanting to run Marks & Spencers. If anyone had bothered to take an interest and asked questions your answers would have been very different I am sure. Before answering question to new people on this forum I suggest you DO NOT give knee jerk replys. As you once experienced, the decisions people are making are life changing. Yes they need to know the negative but for goodness sake your comments make the place sound a 100 times worse than the uk!!!!!! Why are you all living there???????????????

:amen:


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Sue R said:


> Well I can honestly say this is the very LAST time I will come onto this site! I have never met such self oppinionated, negative bunch of baffoons, who dont even live in the area I am looking at!!! Listening to you guys there should be nobody left in any business!! Where are you all living?? Famagusta!!!!
> And as for the comment relating to me not speaking Spanish. I speak fluent Spanish (if anyone had bothered to ask) instead of being more interested in your boring negative comments. I made it clear I did not want comments from people living in different areas. As I stated EVERY place is different. Enjoy your little lives and think about how you guys would have felt being greeted by a bunch of people like the ones that commented on my topic. I was never looking to make myself rich. I have finance to buy 2 apartments and just want a steady little income. If anyone had bothered to take an interest and asked questions your answers would have been very different I am sure. Before answering question to new people on this forum I suggest you DO NOT give knee jerk replys. As you once experienced, the decisions people are making are life changing. Yes they need to know the negative but for goodness sake your comments make the place sound a 100 times worse than the uk!!!!!! Why are you all living there???????????????
> 
> :amen:


sorry you feel offended - but it's not personal & it's not really negativity, although I can see why you might feel that way

most of us live here - or have lived here until recently - & know what it's like 'on the ground' 

the harsh reality is that it is REALLY BAD in Spain at the moment - unless you have a guaranteed income or a well-established business - & even these are suffering

you have the experience/background in the business you want to run - you speak Spanish - you seem to be trying to research it - if anyone ought to make a success of a business such as you propose it will be someone like you

but IF you do - you will be a rarity

even in good times, most catering businesses fail within the first year - those which don't rarely make a profit for the first 2 years

I KNOW this - I used to be a hotel & restaurant manager

these aren't good times though - more & more tourists are coming to all-inclusive holidays - even Benidorm is suffering from this with bar after bar & cafe/takeaway after cafe/takeaway closing down because the tourists spend NOTHING while they are there

those in self-catering will spend their money in the supermarkets - they might go out for a drink in the evening - but they won't be buying take-away sandwiches - they'll make them at home

even in my town which is known to be a 'rich' tourist town, the summer was good for the supermarkets - yes the bars were full, but people were buying just one or two drinks & sitting there all night, not spending like they used to - the many many 'rich' Spanish families who have holiday homes here were BBQing on the beach rather than using the restaurants


we live here because we love it - in my case it's home & I have brought my daughters up here - but even my 16 year year old (who is way more Spanish than English) is talking about returning to the UK - there are no opportunities here for the young - thousands of Spanish are heading to the UK & Germany for work

much as we love it though, we aren't blind - we see the problems & poverty every day - & very few of us would think of starting a business at this time - especially one which largely relies on foreign tourists

& I'm afraid if you go onto any other large Spain 'expat' site where the posters actually _live _here, & you get honesty - you'll get much the same response

(I know of several forums where hardly any posters actually live in Spain - & even one where you'll be banned for saying anything 'negative', even though it's the truth)

we might not know the _precise _area you are interested in - but we do know Spain - & as bad as it is on the mainland - it's no better on the islands, with islanders heading to the mainland looking for work


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Sue R said:


> Well I can honestly say this is the very LAST time I will come onto this site! I have never met such self oppinionated, negative bunch of baffoons, who dont even live in the area I am looking at!!! Listening to you guys there should be nobody left in any business!! Where are you all living?? Famagusta!!!!
> And as for the comment relating to me not speaking Spanish. I speak fluent Spanish, if anyone had bothered to ask! instead of being more interested in your making boring negative comments. I made it clear I did not want comments from people living in different areas. As I stated EVERY place is different. Enjoy your little lives and think about how you guys would have felt being greeted by a bunch of people like the ones that commented on my topic. I was never looking to make myself rich. I have finance to buy 2 apartments and just want a steady little income from a small lock up shop, not wanting to run Marks & Spencers. If anyone had bothered to take an interest and asked questions your answers would have been very different I am sure. Before answering question to new people on this forum I suggest you DO NOT give knee jerk replys. As you once experienced, the decisions people are making are life changing. Yes they need to know the negative* but for goodness sake your comments make the place sound a 100 times worse than the uk!!!!!!* Why are you all living there???????????????
> 
> :amen:


 Yep, it is 100 worse than the UK right now

Theres really no need to get angry with the forum for the state of the Spanish economy and its austerity measures. Spain is a country in crisis, it doesnt have one area thats successful, we all know that. But you know your circumstances best and I sincerely hope it works out for you. It would be nice to hear a success story - cos we dont hear of any right now and thats all we're trying to convey 

Jo xxx


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## tarot650 (Sep 30, 2007)

jojo said:


> Yep, it is 100 worse than the UK right now
> 
> Theres really no need to get angry with the forum for the state of the Spanish economy and its austerity measures. Spain is a country in crisis, it doesnt have one area thats successful, we all know that. But you know your circumstances best and I sincerely hope it works out for you. It would be nice to hear a success story - cos we dont hear of any right now and thats all we're trying to convey
> 
> Jo xxx


JoJo,Sorry girl have to disagree.It's still cheaper to live here as long as you remember the golden rule.don't live beyond your means.The other halfs mother still has a modest property and her council tax is 1300pounds per year.Our rates in this village are 130euros per year.Fuel for my car is between 11 and 14 pence per litre cheaper.Our water rates are 90 to 95 euros per year.I am not saying you don't have to budget you dh and my answer to the OP I live here because we came bacause it really was that easy to start up a business and there was money flying around like no tomorrow and when the euro came in you had to be here to witness it.There was that much matress money that people had to get rid of it was just unbelievable and there is no way I could go back to those cold,grey miserable winters.Yes it does get cold here but I suppose after all the years of being here we are now acclimatised.Myself,I havn't set foot in Blighty in over 12years.Sadly my wife has due to family bereavements and do you know when I picked her up at Malaga airport and I go and pick her case up first thing she says to me it's so nice to be home.Was in Gib the other week fuel 98pence a litre.In hindsight thinking about it I couldn't afford to live the lifestyle we live here in the UK as for the OP sincerely wish her the best of luck if she starts a business as I honestly wouldn't wish anybody to fail but I am thinking what were the answers she wanted to hear.Have a nice day all.Just can't believe the change in weather to last week.Stay soulful and always follow your heart.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

soulboy said:


> JoJo,Sorry girl have to disagree.It's still cheaper to live here as long as you remember the golden rule.don't live beyond your means.The other halfs mother still has a modest property and her council tax is 1300pounds per year.Our rates in this village are 130euros per year.Fuel for my car is between 11 and 14 pence per litre cheaper.Our water rates are 90 to 95 euros per year.I am not saying you don't have to budget you dh and my answer to the OP I live here because we came bacause it really was that easy to start up a business and there was money flying around like no tomorrow and when the euro came in you had to be here to witness it.There was that much matress money that people had to get rid of it was just unbelievable and there is no way I could go back to those cold,grey miserable winters.Yes it does get cold here but I suppose after all the years of being here we are now acclimatised.Myself,I havn't set foot in Blighty in over 12years.Sadly my wife has due to family bereavements and do you know when I picked her up at Malaga airport and I go and pick her case up first thing she says to me it's so nice to be home.Was in Gib the other week fuel 98pence a litre.In hindsight thinking about it I couldn't afford to live the lifestyle we live here in the UK as for the OP sincerely wish her the best of luck if she starts a business as I honestly wouldn't wish anybody to fail but I am thinking what were the answers she wanted to hear.Have a nice day all.Just can't believe the change in weather to last week.Stay soulful and always follow your heart.


I didnt say it wasnt cheaper, altho I have several friends on facebook who are all complaining today that not only has vat risen, but so has their tax?????? One of which lives in Los Cristanos and is struggling. It maybe cheaper, but then its all relative. For us, its cheaper in the UK because when we lived in Spain, my kids attended an international school, my husband commuted and I didnt earn as much in Spain as I do here - and lets not forget, in the UK there are all manner of benefits.

Anyway, I was simply pointing out the the economic crisis is worse in Spain than the UK and isnt close to being resolved 

Jo xxx


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## tarot650 (Sep 30, 2007)

Like I said don't live beyond your means.Your in Spain send your kids to Spanish school.Lost count of the people who have come and gone for the simple fact that they lived beyond their means.In hindsight you only experienced life down on the coast where being a Brit they all expect you to have money.Don't care what anybody says it's still a lot nicer lifestyle over here but I suppose after 18years of living here I am a bit biased.I suppose I can see where people have made mistakes here they had to rent the big villa and had to have a swimming pool just to give them bragging rights to people back home.Like I said don't live beyond your means and it's still damned cheaper to live here..


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

soulboy said:


> Like I said don't live beyond your means.Your in Spain send your kids to Spanish school.Lost count of the people who have come and gone for the simple fact that they lived beyond their means.In hindsight you only experienced life down on the coast where being a Brit they all expect you to have money.Don't care what anybody says it's still a lot nicer lifestyle over here but I suppose after 18years of living here I am a bit biased.I suppose I can see where people have made mistakes here they had to rent the big villa and had to have a swimming pool just to give them bragging rights to people back home.Like I said don't live beyond your means and it's still damned cheaper to live here..


We didnt live beyond our means at all, we were lucky, we could and did have a big villa with a pool. We only moved back to the UK because my husband got fed up with the commute and my son wanted to go to college in the UK to do a particular course. My children went to an international school because my son was 13 when we arrived in Spain, my daughter was 11 and tried state school but was bullied at one and didnt really settle at the other, so we put her into an international school, As it happens, the days of international schools being full of British expat kids are long gone and my children being british were the minority, with most children being from Spanish families and many other nationalities. I actually believe that its not fair for "expats" to burden the Spanish education system right now with the economy as it is. Sadly, Spain needs expats who dont make demands on their resources IMO

I still miss Spain terribly and we've rented a place there for the winter this year and maybe we'll buy somewhere once the economy over there sorts itself out and have it as a holiday home til the kids are grown. My husband is now able to offload some of his work so wont have to commute to the UK quite as much!!! So hopefully all is not lost for us!?!?

Jo xxx


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

soulboy said:


> Like I said don't live beyond your means.Your in Spain send your kids to Spanish school.Lost count of the people who have come and gone for the simple fact that they lived beyond their means.In hindsight you only experienced life down on the coast where being a Brit they all expect you to have money.Don't care what anybody says it's still a lot nicer lifestyle over here but I suppose after 18years of living here I am a bit biased.I suppose I can see where people have made mistakes here they had to rent the big villa and had to have a swimming pool just to give them bragging rights to people back home.Like I said don't live beyond your means and it's still damned cheaper to live here..


Anyone who lives beyond their means anywhere is a fool.
But I didn't come to Spain for a lower standard of living than I had in the UK.
We have a villa with a pool because we enjoy that lifestyle, not to 'brag about it'. We don't have the kind of friends who are impressed by that kind of thing.
People's lifestyles and choices vary but chiefly depend upon their means. If you enjoyed what for lack of a better term I'll call a solid 'middle-class' lifestyle in the UK, then the cost of living here will be slightly less than in the UK but not markedly so.

When I see some of the high-rise apartment blocks and ugly urbanisations that spoil much -but not all - of the coast I find it surprising that anyone could describe a life in one of them as 'living a dream'. But then if you lived in a grim industrial area in the UK in an apartment in a high-rise block then I guess you'd be over the moon to be living fifteen storeys high in Benidorm. Sobre los gustos no hay disputos, as the Spanish saying goes.

The stark truth is as Jo says that at this time Spain is a hundred times worse than the UK and business prospects are not good anywhere. I don't live in a tourist area and I find it odd that people who come to Spain would want to eat sausage rolls but that's my view and it's not shared by others.

As I have no financial stake in the OPs proposed business my advice would be purely objective and it would be 'suck it and see'. If the possibility of losing a few thousand euros isn't catastrophic for you you have nothing to lose and potentially valuable experience to gain. I wouldn't rate your chances of success very highly in this area but as I said there are few tourists here and those that come are mainly Spanish.

Incidentally, I find it rather droll that someone can take offence.....before I'd posted anything


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## DunWorkin (Sep 2, 2010)

Sue R said:


> Well I can honestly say this is the very LAST time I will come onto this site! I have never met such self oppinionated, negative bunch of baffoons, who dont even live in the area I am looking at!!! Listening to you guys there should be nobody left in any business!! Where are you all living?? Famagusta!!!!
> And as for the comment relating to me not speaking Spanish. I speak fluent Spanish, if anyone had bothered to ask! instead of being more interested in your making boring negative comments. I made it clear I did not want comments from people living in different areas. As I stated EVERY place is different. Enjoy your little lives and think about how you guys would have felt being greeted by a bunch of people like the ones that commented on my topic. I was never looking to make myself rich. I have finance to buy 2 apartments and just want a steady little income from a small lock up shop, not wanting to run Marks & Spencers. If anyone had bothered to take an interest and asked questions your answers would have been very different I am sure. Before answering question to new people on this forum I suggest you DO NOT give knee jerk replys. As you once experienced, the decisions people are making are life changing. Yes they need to know the negative but for goodness sake your comments make the place sound a 100 times worse than the uk!!!!!! Why are you all living there???????????????
> 
> :amen:


I think these comments are extremely rude. You asked what people thought and we gave you our honest opinions.

Situations may vary slightly from area to area but anywhere you go in Spain or the islands you will come across the same situations. Generally people do not have spare money to spend.

What people here are trying to tell you is that, at the moment, you have 'b*****r all' chance of succeeding in what you have planned. If you choose to ignore our advice and do it anyway that is up to you. 

We live here and see the situation every day. You are basing your judgment on what you saw in one place which appeared to be doing well. Believe me that is the exception rather than the rule.

You may decide to leave this forum or not. That is up to you but please do not call the people here who are trying to help "self opinionated (which, by the way, only has one p), negative bunch of baffoons (I assume you mean buffoons)"

Good luck whatever you decide to do.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

jojo said:


> We didnt live beyond our means at all, we were lucky, we could and did have a big villa with a pool. We only moved back to the UK because my husband got fed up with the commute and my son wanted to go to college in the UK to do a particular course. My children went to an international school because my son was 13 when we arrived in Spain, my daughter was 11 and tried state school but was bullied at one and didnt really settle at the other, so we put her into an international school, As it happens, the days of international schools being full of British expat kids are long gone and my children being british were the minority, with most children being from Spanish families and many other nationalities. I actually believe that its not fair for "expats" to burden the Spanish education system right now with the economy as it is. Sadly, Spain needs expats who dont make demands on their resources IMO
> 
> I still miss Spain terribly and we've rented a place there for the winter this year and maybe we'll buy somewhere once the economy over there sorts itself out and have it as a holiday home til the kids are grown. My husband is now able to offload some of his work so wont have to commute to the UK quite as much!!! So hopefully all is not lost for us!?!?
> 
> Jo xxx


It will be good to have you back, Jo.
I've said before that if anyone could make a go of a start=up business here it would be you. The fact you haven't tried speaks volumes.

I find it faintly irritating that some people write off the costas as being one uninterrupted strip of hideous development inhabited exclusively by Northern European immigrants. Of course much of the coastline has been spoilt beyond redemption but that is not true of every kilometre of the Mediterranean or Atlantic coasts.

My personal choice wouldn't be to live in such an area so I don't but I live on the CdS ....on the coast in a Spanish village, population 1800 souls and not a high-rise or night-club and very few Northern European immigrants.

A lot of this disparaging of the costas can be put down to ignorance and lack of exploration. Some of it may stem from other motives.
I remember a Spanish guy saying that many people who are proud of living in what they imagine to be 'the real Spain' in some inland pueblo are those who would love to live on the coast but can't afford to.

I'm sure that's true of a minority but there are no laws about where to live in Spain and any talk of the 'real Spain' is romantic tourist brochure nonsense.
Everywhere in Spain is Spain. Period. Just as everywhere in England is the real England, even the picture -postcard Cotswold villages that are carefully maintained in their olde-worlde guise to lure tourists who gawp and exclaim..'Oh, the real England!!!!'........


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## NickZ (Jun 26, 2009)

mrypg9 said:


> When I see some of the high-rise apartment blocks and ugly urbanisations that spoil much -but not all - of the coast I find it surprising that anyone could describe a life in one of them as 'living a dream'.



I think it's the usual difference in life. A big city kid appreciates the advantages of a big city apartment in ways somebody used to a country cottage won't. Neither is right or wrong. 

An apartment in the city means closing the door and not worrying about the lawn. Or somebody falling into the pool. Or anything else that a country home might require. It can mean walking across the street to shop versus driving some place.

Honestly I know many who pay extra for a city apartment over a country villa. It's not unusual for a city apartment to be something people brag about


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## DunWorkin (Sep 2, 2010)

Yes, I agree not all Spanish 'costas' are high rise jungles

Here is where we live










This is our beach










Behind our house











and we are right on the coast on the Costa Blanca just 11km from Benidorm.

There are many other places like this along all coasts of Spain. They are just not very well known (thank goodness )


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

mrypg9 said:


> It will be good to have you back, Jo.
> I've said before that if anyone could make a go of a start=up business here it would be you. The fact you haven't tried speaks volumes.
> 
> I find it faintly irritating that some people write off the costas as being one uninterrupted strip of hideous development inhabited exclusively by Northern European immigrants. Of course much of the coastline has been spoilt beyond redemption but that is not true of every kilometre of the Mediterranean or Atlantic coasts.
> ...



I so agree with this! there are a few expats who seem to almost dislike those who go to Spain but dont integrate into the "real Spain" - whatever that is. When we first arrived in Spain, we lived in Alhaurin de la Torre where there were very few expats of any nationality - mainly Spanish. BUT, they werent wandering about on donkeys and dancing the flamenco. They were modern, with fast cars, fashionable clothes, iphones, mod cons and thoroughly european. The town was more like Florida than a sleepy spanish pueblo, in fact people who live in the pueblos aspired to have the mod cons and fast living of those in the towns. Its not about expat infiltration, its about the Spanish wanting to have modern luxuries and not be help back because a few expats like the idea of living in "real Spain"

Jo xxx


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## 90199 (Mar 21, 2010)

Sue R said:


> Well I can honestly say this is the very LAST time I will come onto this site! I have never met such self oppinionated, negative bunch of baffoons, who dont even live in the area I am looking at!!! Listening to you guys there should be nobody left in any business!! Where are you all living?? Famagusta!!!!
> And as for the comment relating to me not speaking Spanish. I speak fluent Spanish, if anyone had bothered to ask! instead of being more interested in your making boring negative comments. I made it clear I did not want comments from people living in different areas. As I stated EVERY place is different. Enjoy your little lives and think about how you guys would have felt being greeted by a bunch of people like the ones that commented on my topic. I was never looking to make myself rich. I have finance to buy 2 apartments and just want a steady little income from a small lock up shop, not wanting to run Marks & Spencers. If anyone had bothered to take an interest and asked questions your answers would have been very different I am sure. Before answering question to new people on this forum I suggest you DO NOT give knee jerk replys. As you once experienced, the decisions people are making are life changing. Yes they need to know the negative but for goodness sake your comments make the place sound a 100 times worse than the uk!!!!!! Why are you all living there???????????????
> 
> :amen:


Like I said in a previous post, There doesn't seem to be any posters in the area you are thinking of setting up a business.

However I live 75 miles and 75 years to the south west of Los Cristianos, and I could murder a pork pie from the north of England. 

With the exception of the airport the only sandwich you can get here is a toasted sandwich usually cheese and ham.

Oh a proper Cornish Pastie.......................

Pssst, your last post made me smile..........


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## virgil (May 3, 2012)

Hepa said:


> Like I said in a previous post, There doesn't seem to be any posters in the area you are thinking of setting up a business.
> 
> However I live 75 miles and 75 years to the south west of Los Cristianos, and I could murder a pork pie from the north of England.
> 
> ...


Even Cornish pasties have taken a hit due to the economic situation, with a little help no doubt from a wet wet wet 'summer'.

BBC News - Warrens Bakery in St Just asks staff to take pay cut


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## 90199 (Mar 21, 2010)

virgil said:


> Even Cornish pasties have taken a hit due to the economic situation, with a little help no doubt from a wet wet wet 'summer'.
> 
> BBC News - Warrens Bakery in St Just asks staff to take pay cut


Send some rain down here, one of my water storage deposits is almost dry, 4" left, there was 14 foot depth.


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## virgil (May 3, 2012)

Hepa said:


> Send some rain down here, one of my water storage deposits is almost dry, 4" left, there was 14 foot depth.


Why does everybody assume that it rains most of the time in God's own country


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