# The president.



## Milouk84

If you are to vote, who will you choose? and why?


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## DeadGuy

Hazem Salah Abu Ismael


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## Milouk84

DeadGuy said:


> Hazem Salah Abu Ismael


Really, but why?


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## expatagogo

DeadGuy said:


> Hazem Salah Abu Ismael


Oh really? Me, too!

He's a leader. A fair and square kindof guy, and a true intellectual.

/scarcasm


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## DeadGuy

Milouk84 said:


> Really, but why?


Why? Cause of his distinguished catchphrase...........Sanahya kherafan.......


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## aykalam

Hamdeen Sabbahi 

Why? Because of jewels like this video...

Egypt Presidential Candidate Sabahi in 2005: I Support Al-Qaeda When It Kills Americans - YouTube


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## Milouk84

aykalam said:


> Hamdeen Sabbahi
> 
> Why? Because of jewels like this video...
> 
> Egypt Presidential Candidate Sabahi in 2005: I Support Al-Qaeda When It Kills Americans - YouTube


That's the reason why I didn't vote for him.


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## Milouk84

expatagogo said:


> Oh really? Me, too!
> 
> He's a leader. A fair and square kindof guy, and a true intellectual.
> 
> /scarcasm


EXACTLY, the same for Morsy.


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## aykalam

Milouk84 said:


> That's the reason why I didn't vote for him.


So who did you vote for? and why?


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## Milouk84

aykalam said:


> So who did you vote for? and why?


Amr Moosa. 

Why? because I'm against Mohamed Morsy and Ahmed Shafeek. And I guess one of these three shall win.


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## DeadGuy

aykalam said:


> Hamdeen Sabbahi
> 
> Why? Because of jewels like this video...
> 
> Egypt Presidential Candidate Sabahi in 2005: I Support Al-Qaeda When It Kills Americans - YouTube


_Interesting_, very! 

Trouble is, if anyone takes a good look into any of the candidates' history (Or present ) then they won't vote for any of them.........

Any way, it's a matter of days now before things start going a bit clear.........Or messy :ranger:


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## expatagogo

DeadGuy said:


> _Interesting_, very!
> 
> Trouble is, if anyone takes a good look into any of the candidates' history (Or present ) then they won't vote for any of them.........
> 
> Any way, it's a matter of days now before things start going a bit clear.........Or messy :ranger:


Youssef Rakha tells it like it is here:

Watermelon republic - Opinion - Ahram Online


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## aykalam

DeadGuy said:


> _Interesting_, very!
> 
> Trouble is, if anyone takes a good look into any of the candidates' history (Or present ) then they won't vote for any of them.........
> 
> Any way, it's a matter of days now before things start going a bit clear.........Or messy :ranger:


boycotting is always an electoral option, and one that's gaining ground given the dismal choice of candidates


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## expatagogo

aykalam said:


> boycotting is always an electoral option, and one that's gaining ground given the dismal choice of candidates


Color me not politically savvy, but what would be the benefit of a boycott?


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## aykalam

expatagogo said:


> Color me not politically savvy, but what would be the benefit of a boycott?


It's not about benefits, it's about expressing one's views on the entire process and choice. A mass boycott would of course take legitimacy away from the final result, even if there was no fix/fraud.

On the other hand, if you vote for a candidate who stands no chance you could consider it a matter of principle but you might as well put your ballot paper in the waste bin. 12 candidates standing now, only a couple of them are real contenders.


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## Milouk84

aykalam said:


> boycotting is always an electoral option, and one that's gaining ground given the dismal choice of candidates


There won't be better candidates unless we start the process of being a democratic country. 

I believe that becoming a president in Egypt was never a dream for any Egyptian and no one in Egypt was raised or was taught enough to be a president. 

Everyone of them wants to change Egypt's character because there are no guidelines set for this position. And since there's no constitution, their chance to remodel is higher.

We have to just accept what the first elected president will do and better candidates will come with time.


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## expatagogo

aykalam said:


> It's not about benefits, it's about expressing one's views on the entire process and choice. A mass boycott would of course take legitimacy away from the final result, even if there was no fix/fraud.
> 
> On the other hand, if you vote for a candidate who stands no chance you could consider it a matter of principle but you might as well put your ballot paper in the waste bin. 12 candidates standing now, only a couple of them are real contenders.


Thank you for explaining.

I can't see a boycott happening here, not a one large enough to sway the election.


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## DeadGuy

aykalam said:


> It's not about benefits, it's about expressing one's views on the entire process and choice. A mass boycott would of course take legitimacy away from the final result, even if there was no fix/fraud.
> 
> On the other hand, if you vote for a candidate who stands no chance you could consider it a matter of principle but you might as well put your ballot paper in the waste bin. 12 candidates standing now, only a couple of them are real contenders.


Agreed!

But like you said, a mass boycott would take legitimacy, but let's not forget that we're talking about a country where the majority of the population actually believe that voting (And specifically for a candidate with a "clear" Islamic agenda) is a religious duty! So personally I believe that the chance for a snowfall in Egypt during the elections is a lot higher than the chance of having a mass boycott with the presence of multiple Islamic candidates running for presidency. (This "might" happen if none of the 2 going for the "finals" in June was an Islamic candidate, but _no one_ knows what's gonna happen till then ).


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## DeadGuy

Milouk84 said:


> There won't be better candidates unless we start the process of being a democratic country.
> 
> I believe that becoming a president in Egypt was never a dream for any Egyptian and no one in Egypt was raised or was taught enough to be a president.
> 
> Everyone of them wants to change Egypt's character because there are no guidelines set for this position. And since there's no constitution, their chance to remodel is higher.
> 
> We have to just accept what the first elected president will do and better candidates will come with time.


Well said :clap2:

However in your last sentence, I'd like to believe that we *should *just accept the first elected president till better options are available, cause I really hope we won't "have to" accept him, or else we won't really have a choice with the following one if we had to accept the first one


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## MaidenScotland

Who ever gets the job will only have it for one term, expectations for the new Egypt are high and unrealistic, it took 50plus years for the country to get into the mess it is in, the mess is not going to disappear overnight but trying telling that to the people


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## expatagogo

MaidenScotland said:


> Who ever gets the job will only have it for one term, expectations for the new Egypt are high and unrealistic, it took 50plus years for the country to get into the mess it is in, the mess is not going to disappear overnight but trying telling that to the people


Egyptians have never - not once - chosen their own head of State. This is a first, and there's a steep learning curve.

I agree the president will be a one hit wonder because, whoever it is, won't be able to deliver on their over the top political promises.


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## aykalam

Milouk84 said:


> There won't be better candidates unless we start the process of being a democratic country.
> 
> I believe that becoming a president in Egypt was never a dream for any Egyptian and no one in Egypt was raised or was taught enough to be a president.
> 
> Everyone of them wants to change Egypt's character because there are no guidelines set for this position. And since there's no constitution, their chance to remodel is higher.
> 
> We have to just accept what the first elected president will do and better candidates will come with time.


There are more suitable (potential) candidates that are too smart to commit political suicide at this stage. Like MS already pointed, whoever takes over now will have their job cut out, they may not even last the whole 4 years. Still a very bumpy road indeed.

I am glad I don't have the right to vote, because I really would not know who to vote for


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## expatagogo

aykalam said:


> I am glad I don't have the right to vote, because I really would not know who to vote for


I would have to overcome my gag reflex in order to cast a vote.

Corrupt systems favor corruption. Not one of those candidates has what it takes to take on the system.


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## marimar

MaidenScotland said:


> Who ever gets the job will only have it for one term, expectations for the new Egypt are high and unrealistic, it took 50plus years for the country to get into the mess it is in, the mess is not going to disappear overnight but trying telling that to the people



You are right, the incoming president is never going to be able to please everyone and people in Egypt are expecting so much more than they are realistically going to get. I said to my husband only a few days ago that is probably why El Baredi decided not to run now and will challenge again in the next election, he knows he has a better crack at things 4 years down the line.


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## Qsw

Expectations may be high, but I don't think that the majority believe Egypt's problems will be fixed quickly. The people I have spoken to about the elections are cynical about the process, and also realize that there are a lot of tough problems that need attention. That said though I haven't spoken with lots of people about this, just hoping that's the case.

I think, or at least hope, most people will be content if they see progress. Personally I've given up hope on this round of elections, and am just hoping that there will be a second round when the time comes...

I know who I won't be voting for, that's a start I guess


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## Milouk84

If the only achievement during those four years is to have a FAIR constitution written (or adjusted), I'll be more than content. "And police too."


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## DeadGuy

aykalam said:


> .................
> I am glad I don't have the right to vote, because I really would not know who to vote for


Hazem Salah Abu Ismael.............


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## DeadGuy

MaidenScotland said:


> Who ever gets the job will only have it for one term, expectations for the new Egypt are high and unrealistic, it took 50plus years for the country to get into the mess it is in, the mess is not going to disappear overnight but trying telling that to the people


One of the stuff that makes me smile is how "good hearted" (Well, naive, but I'm trying to be nice ) some people in here can be! Specially the morning(s) after interview(s) with any of the candidates, and people actually believing that the guy (whoever he is) will actually wanna/be able to do everything he's promising! And when they watch the next interview with the next candidate, of course they wanna vote for him cause they believed him too 

And I'm done trying to explain that there's no point of having their salaries raised if the prices keep going up too


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## DeadGuy

Milouk84 said:


> If the only achievement during those four years is to have a FAIR constitution written (or adjusted), I'll be more than content. "And police too."


Think the police part will be a priority to whoever takes over.............For _various_ reasons 

As for the constitution.............Let's hope so.......:ranger:


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## Milouk84

DeadGuy said:


> Hazem Salah Abu Ismael.............


Well, Hazem Salah Abu Ismail is supporting Abul Fotouh now :confused2:


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## aykalam

DeadGuy said:


> Hazem Salah Abu Ismael.............


I already had my niqab ironed :tongue1: I'll keep it handy just in case...


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## marimar

I see from a recent You Tube video that the MB are at it again, buying votes that is...women filmed sitting eating in the street from carrier bags with the MB candidates name and symbol on it. When asked by the cameraman if they had been given the food in exchange for their votes they hide their faces and move away...sure sign of guilt.
So the very people who accuse the old regime of corruption are no better, although I think most people knew that anyway.
It's been said before....politics and religion don't mix....


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## Milouk84

marimar said:


> I see from a recent You Tube video that the MB are at it again, buying votes that is...women filmed sitting eating in the street from carrier bags with the MB candidates name and symbol on it. When asked by the cameraman if they had been given the food in exchange for their votes they hide their faces and move away...sure sign of guilt.
> So the very people who accuse the old regime of corruption are no better, although I think most people knew that anyway.
> It's been said before....politics and religion don't mix....


I wished it was only that, at the end they can have their food but they can vote for someone else. But what made me really sick is that they paid some uneducated needy people between 50-100 LE (mainly women) to have their IDs for 20-30 days, offering to help them with the elections and those people are convinced that MB are doing them a BIG favor. 

And Abu Fotooh also is using the same method.


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## MaidenScotland

Milouk84 said:


> I wished it was only that, at the end they can have their food but they can vote for someone else. But what made me really sick is that they paid some uneducated needy people between 50-100 LE (mainly women) to have their IDs for 20-30 days, offering to help them with the elections and those people are convinced that MB are doing them a BIG favor.
> 
> And Abu Fotooh also is using the same method.





This is the price for ignoring the plight of the poor... 

It is wrong that anyone can buy your vote but then again when your poor and someone offers you money you will take it, I expect the poor are thinking what difference will it make to me who gets in, I still wont be able to feed or educate my children..


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## aykalam

Abul-Fotouh presents legal memorandum to SPEC on elections fraud

Abul-Fotouh presents legal memorandum to SPEC on elections fraud: Campaign - Presidential elections news - Presidential elections 2012 - Ahram Online

let the games begin


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## Milouk84

I hope this time there will be an action taken. And this proves that there's no difference between Morsy or Abul Fotooh. Both are MB candidates. They are helping the poor get 2 days supply of sugar and rice and may be today's lunch, isn' t that great? Very noble.


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## MaidenScotland

Milouk84 said:


> I hope this time there will be an action taken. And this proves that there's no difference between Morsy or Abul Fotooh. Both are MB candidates. They are helping the poor get 2 days supply of sugar and rice and may be today's lunch, isn' t that great? Very noble.




At least they will eat those days.


The point it... no one should be that hungry that their votes can be bought.


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## aykalam

but the link I posted refers to votes at the Egyptian consulate in KSA...do Egyptian workers go hungry in Saudi? I doubt it


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## MaidenScotland

aykalam said:


> but the link I posted refers to votes at the Egyptian consulate in KSA...do Egyptian workers go hungry in Saudi? I doubt it




I was replying to 

. They are helping the poor get 2 days supply of sugar and rice and may be today's lunch, isn' t that great? Very noble.


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## Milouk84

aykalam said:


> but the link I posted refers to votes at the Egyptian consulate in KSA...do Egyptian workers go hungry in Saudi? I doubt it


I saw a picture of one of Abul Fotooh's tents, also distributing stuff for free and I had a friend who tried to enter her ID number to vote and it was already used somewhere else. 

They are hungry too, but not the hunger that can be fulfilled with food, they are hungry for authority because as you know, their president will lead them to heaven. And taking control over the parliament only is definitely not enough.

They are fighting against infidels in any way by any means.


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## expatagogo

I saw in this morning's news that parliament's housing committee has recommended voiding out the "old rent" contracts as they aren't sharia compliant.

People have no idea what they're setting themselves up for.


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## MaidenScotland

expatagogo said:


> I saw in this morning's news that parliament's housing committee has recommended voiding out the "old rent" contracts as they aren't sharia compliant.
> 
> People have no idea what they're setting themselves up for.




And of course it is the poor that will suffer.

I know a women who owns several buildings yet she is living in a huge apartment for a rent of 14 egyptian pounds a month.. her children can take over the apartment at the same rent, her grandchildren can't take over from their parents as the agreement has run out.

The old rent issue is why there are so many run down properties, who can afford to make repairs when all you get is 14 le a month.


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## CAIRODEMON

expatagogo said:


> I saw in this morning's news that parliament's housing committee has recommended voiding out the "old rent" contracts as they aren't sharia compliant.
> 
> People have no idea what they're setting themselves up for.


In what way as a matter of interest?


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## DeadGuy

Milouk84 said:


> Well, Hazem Salah Abu Ismail is supporting Abul Fotouh now :confused2:


He's been :blah: :blah: :blah:ing for a long time about naming "his" candidate, but so far the only thing he mentioned is that he's not gonna name anyone and that all he can say is that people should only give their votes to those who are going to apply the Shariaa, which is pretty much what everyone's saying about the spare tire


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## DeadGuy

aykalam said:


> but the link I posted refers to votes at the Egyptian consulate in KSA...do Egyptian workers go hungry in Saudi? I doubt it


Not all Egyptians in KSA are teachers/doctors/engineers/etc., the majority of the Egyptian expats in gulf countries are actually.............Well what can I say? They're desperate and they'd accept any job? Or anything that would be offered as a price for their votes?


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## DeadGuy

Milouk84 said:


> I hope this time there will be an action taken. And this proves that there's no difference between Morsy or Abul Fotooh. Both are MB candidates. They are helping the poor get 2 days supply of sugar and rice and may be today's lunch, isn' t that great? Very noble.


Action's been taken already 


> Monday, May 21st, 2012, 15:34:
> 
> Dr. Muhammed Saad El Katatni, the Speaker of the People's Assembly of Egypt, have "prayed" for the success of MB's candidate for presidency, Muhammed Mursi, in the coming presidential elections, saying "_I pray to God to help my brother, FJP's candidate Muhammed Mursi, with the consequences of the historical responsibility that will be upon him *WHEN *he's elected as a president to Egypt inshalla_"
> 
> Katatni said on a Tweet on his Twitter account "The most important step in handing power over from the SCAF to the "selected representative" of the people that will express people's aspirations, who will fulfill the goals of the great revolution that amazed the whole world that our glorious martyrs sacrificed their lives for"
> 
> He continued, "And like the great people of Egypt amazed us with their enormous contribution in the Parliamentary elections to choose their representatives, we are sure that the people of Egypt will ensure that their votes will be "heard" and protect it (Their votes), we wish all the best to all candidates".


Translated from the Arabic El Youm El Sabee, http://www1.youm7.com/News.asp?NewsID=684177


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## Qsw

Still don't find any of the candidates appealing. Amr Moussa seems to be the "best of the worst", there is really no ideal candidate at the moment for me.

It's kind of ridiculous when you think out of 80 million these are the only ones in the running... But then again this the result of the previous regime. Still surprising that no real liberal parties have managed to get their act together over the last year.


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## aykalam

DeadGuy said:


> Not all Egyptians in KSA are teachers/doctors/engineers/etc., the majority of the Egyptian expats in gulf countries are actually.............Well what can I say? They're desperate and they'd accept any job? Or anything that would be offered as a price for their votes?


Desperate enough to leave Egypt, maybe. To take any poxy job they are offered abroad, OK. But surely they are not going hungry in KSA, they could easily do that back home, right? :eyebrows:

What I'm trying to get to is that not all fraud consists of vote buying, although of course that too is going on, as we know


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## expatagogo

CAIRODEMON said:


> In what way as a matter of interest?


I think people are expecting a savior, however I believe it's going to be worse before it gets better.


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## MaidenScotland

Voting was suspended for four hours at Sakhr Al-Din Khaled School in Daqahliya after the polling centre’s judge discovered 35 ballots that were rigged in favour of the Muslim Brotherhood’s Freedom and Justice Party’s candidate Mohamed Mursi.

The judge insisted on filing a complaint and faxing the Supreme Presidential Elections Commission to determine the fate of the stations he is supervising, Al-Masry Al-Youm newspaper reported.

Mursi’s representatives tried to convince the judge that what happened was “unintentional” and the marks were a printing error. The judge still insisted on suspending the voting process until the presidential commission looks into the case.


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## expatagogo

MaidenScotland said:


> Voting was suspended for four hours at Sakhr Al-Din Khaled School in Daqahliya after the polling centre’s judge discovered 35 ballots that were rigged in favour of the Muslim Brotherhood’s Freedom and Justice Party’s candidate Mohamed Mursi.
> 
> The judge insisted on filing a complaint and faxing the Supreme Presidential Elections Commission to determine the fate of the stations he is supervising, Al-Masry Al-Youm newspaper reported.
> 
> Mursi’s representatives tried to convince the judge that what happened was “unintentional” and the marks were a printing error. The judge still insisted on suspending the voting process until the presidential commission looks into the case.


Israel did it!


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## expatagogo

expatagogo said:


> Israel did it!


No, America did it!


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## expatagogo

expatagogo said:


> No, America did it!


For sure it was the printer. After all, somebody told somebody he once said he would exchange a printing job for money, and we all know what _that_ means.


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## aykalam

*what's this???*

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ao-8HQWGEMs&feature=youtu.be


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## Milouk84

aykalam said:


> Journalist Assaulted at Egyptian Consulate in NYC - YouTube


The guy was just interviewing people who would say a couple of nice words about the elections and that they are happy they can vote, but they revealed what they didn't want any one to know. 

But how can anyone prove that there were any violations? I don't think the american police can interfere with the Egyptian elections.


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## aykalam

Milouk84 said:


> The guy was just interviewing people who would say a couple of nice words about the elections and that they are happy they can vote, but they revealed what they didn't want any one to know.
> 
> But how can anyone prove that there were any violations? I don't think the american police can interfere with the Egyptian elections.


but beyond any potential violations...

if they didn't want this guy to film inside the embassy (or more likely filming is forbidden in the premises), this is no doubt a security breach. I have never been to the embassy in NY but I'm pretty certain they must have metal detectors, right?


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## MaidenScotland

aykalam said:


> but beyond any potential violations...
> 
> if they didn't want this guy to film inside the embassy (or more likely filming is forbidden in the premises), this is no doubt a security breach. I have never been to the embassy in NY but I'm pretty certain they must have metal detectors, right?




but how did they get the confiscated film out on youtube?


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## aykalam

MaidenScotland said:


> but how did they get the confiscated film out on youtube?


They probably opened the camera to find it empty (digital camera)


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## MaidenScotland

aykalam said:


> They probably opened the camera to find it empty (digital camera)





Of course....silly me,


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## Milouk84

MaidenScotland said:


> but how did they get the confiscated film out on youtube?


Well, I saw the Arabic version of the video, it's 6:46 minutes, and the reporter said that he took the permission to shoot since he's not going to wander around the consulate. Then this incident happened.
The guy who took the camera (obviously didn't know it was still recording) put it in his office for less than a minute and then returned it back to the reporter, I think he wanted just to end the situation so, when asked if he had deleted what was filmed, he answered yes.

The reporter then said that his tripod and eye glasses were broken. And then he was told that filming is not allowed inside the consulate. 

And that they are doing their best, they don't sleeeeeeeeeeeeeep.


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## MaidenScotland

Photographed by Virginie Nguyen.
... .

.



.
. . . 



4:00 pm: A supporter of Freedom and Justice Party presidential candidate Mohamed Morsy was distributing meat and sugar to voters in Qena Governorate, according to election monitors with the Hurra Naziha Coalition.

In a statement issued on Thursday, the coalition says its observers saw Morsy supporter Abu Bakr al-Qady distributing meat, sugar, beans, lentils and oil to voters in the Khuzam village in Qena.

In Marsa Matrouh, a Shafiq supporter was arrested and accused of distributing money to voters.


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## MaidenScotland

On Wednesday afternoon around the downtown district, many supporters of Abouel Fotouh and Muslim Brotherhood candidate Mohamed Morsy continued to campaign in violation of election regulations.

Abouel Fotouh supporters sitting in ahwas adjacent to Qait Bay Preparatory School surreptitiously handed out campaign fliers as they offered to assist people in finding their polling stations using their personal laptops.

"They’re handing us out these fliers," said Mostafa al-Sebaa, a shop owner in the area. "Shafiq and Moussa campaigners were here earlier; they bought some products from me and tried to convince people in my shop to vote for their candidates, then verbal arguments broke out between the two [groups]."

In Bahary, violations were reported regarding Abouel Fotouh, Morsy, Moussa and Shafiq campaigners. One woman wearing a niqab and another veiled woman were stopping people nearby Qait Bay Preparatory School and encouraging them to for Morsy


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## MaidenScotland

How can [Ahmed] Shafiq and [Amr] Moussa have the guts to run when we know how much they corrupted this country while staying loyal to the regime they were part of?" asked Tabya resident Hekmat Fahim, 54. "Where is the social justice? I can guarantee that if they win their fates will be like [Mubarak’s] and we will have another revolution."


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## expatagogo

Game changer!

Abu-Ismail urges voters to back pro-revolution candidates - Presidential elections news - Presidential elections 2012 - Ahram Online

_Hazem Salah Abu-Ismail, the Salafist former presidential candidate, has called on voters to back pro-revolution candidates in Egypt's presidential election to counteract what he claimed were efforts to restore old regime figures to power._


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## MaidenScotland

Mohammed Morsi looks likely to go on to compete in run-off vote as Amr Moussa asks Mubarak's ex-PM to withdraw




Egypt's historic presidential election was on a knife edge early on Friday as first results pointed to a commanding performance by the Muslim Brotherhood candidate Mohammed Morsi, who is now likely to go on to compete in a runoff vote next month.

Morsi's apparent lead was trumpeted by the well-organised Islamist movement soon after the polls closed on the second day of the two-day vote – the first time Egyptians have ever had a genuine choice of leader.

With fewer than 10% of the results declared, the overall outcome was still far too close to call. But the two leading contenders will fight a tense French-style second round on 16-17 June. If Morsi's position is confirmed, he will face either a rival independent Islamist or one of three other frontrunners.


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## MaidenScotland

Voters admitted they faced tough choices. Hamada, a Cairo hairdresser, told al-Ahram he would vote for the "corrupt" Shafiq to protect his livelihood.

"We don't want an Islamic state, although we believe in the revolution. We need a force to counteract the Islamist-dominated parliament … we need someone to secure our jobs, to allow our wives to walk in the streets and help us raise our children safely.

"I know he's a thief, corrupt and a liar but who isn't? The two Brotherhood candidates [Morsi and Abul Fotouh]? Of course not! And Sabbahi won't reach the second round. I'll lose my job if an Islamist becomes president because my job will be forbidden. Our revolution has been stolen."


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## Milouk84

Now, who would you vote for?


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## MaidenScotland

"It feels as if the revolution never took place," lamented a despondent George Ishaq, a founder of the leftwing Kifaya Party.

"The Brotherhood are despotic and fanatical and Shafiq is the choice of Mubarak. It is a very bad result. The revolution is not part of this contest."


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## MaidenScotland

Analysts predict a bare-knuckle race over the next three weeks with the Brotherhood mobilising its well-oiled machine to get the vote out for Morsi while the army and police are likely to support Shafiq – despite their official neutrality. On Friday the Brotherhood quickly launched an attack on Shafiq as a "fuloul" (remnant) of the old regime who was "climbing to power over the corpses of the martyrs of the revolution".


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## expatagogo

The Brotherhood can do that. 

However, all the Shafiq camp has to do is remind them of the old days, when the NDP controlled the show. Or, there could be a sweep of crime and violence to shoo him in.

It's almost a pointless exercise, though, with no constitution and no defined powers. :focus:


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## hhaddad

It seems we're well on the way for an Islamic Republic.


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## aykalam

lol

https://twitter.com/Sarahcarr/status/206336254185451520/photo/1


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## Milouk84

hhaddad said:


> It seems we're well on the way for an Islamic Republic.


I hope not. I'm against Shafiq's policy but yet I will definitely vote for him, and many others will do the same. I guess MB were shocked to find someone getting almost the same number of voices as Morsy. But still some of Sabbahi supporters are choosing Morsi.


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## Eco-Mariner

Whoever gets the position there will always be the "silent majority" those that rose up to give the country freedom to vote, who will rise again in more anger if the same system of governance repeats itself.


Eco-Mariner.


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## Milouk84

Eco-Mariner said:


> Whoever gets the position there will always be the "silent majority" those that rose up to give the country freedom to vote, who will rise again in more anger if the same system of governance repeats itself.
> 
> Eco-Mariner.


Now it's either shafiq who'll be leaving in 4 years and the worst scenario there'll be another revolution or the MB who will turn Egypt to a Muslim state FOREVER. Revolutions are not in their dictionary, crimes against humanity are. MB didn't play any part during the revolution, if you remember, they wanted to have control over the parliament and they got it, they wanted to be the majority to write the constitution and they almost did it. And they promised not to run for presidency and their candidate almost won. Don' t you think shafiq is much easier to deal with than MB?


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## CAIRODEMON

Eco-Mariner said:


> Whoever gets the position there will always be the "silent majority" those that rose up to give the country freedom to vote, who will rise again in more anger if the same system of governance repeats itself.
> 
> 
> Eco-Mariner.



"who will rise again in more anger if the same system of governance repeats itself"

Isn't the system of governance democracy? Does that not mean that you have to abide by the will of the majority? Also, having achieved this Nirvana, is it not a bit puerile not to participate in the election because you do not like some of the candidates?


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## Eco-Mariner

The educated "silent majority" couldn't find a leader.

The uneducated majority could not find the brain cells and went for the media's favourite and bribes. That seems to be the problem in developing countries, if you have nothing you take what's offered you, even if it is the wrong outcome.


Eco-Mariner


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## Milouk84

Eco-Mariner said:


> The educated "silent majority" couldn't find a leader.
> 
> The uneducated majority could not find the brain cells and went for the media's favourite and bribes. That seems to be the problem in developing countries, if you have nothing you take what's offered you, even if it is the wrong outcome.
> 
> 
> Eco-Mariner


I agree with you but this should be expected, since democracy is here before education. 

The older generation who voted for Shafiq are all educated but they also never agreed with the revolution. They lived through it like they had lived through the past 30 years, audience, they never switched jobs or moved to another home may be, so their choice was known, Shafiq. And when they voted, the result was creating this "silent majority" .

I always wished the silent majority will be the uneducated.


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## Eco-Mariner

If Egypt is to become democratic, would anyone like to share opinions on the difference between *"Power"* and* "Control"* ?


Eco-Mariner


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## Lanason

Power is the engine 
Control is the steering wheel

Sent using ExpatForum App


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## Eco-Mariner

As a sailor I would agree Adrian and I would be at the helm, but I was referring to the running of a country.


Eco-Mariner.


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## MaidenScotland

Power belongs to the person who has their finger on the big red button, can call on the army, police etc for back up

Control belongs to the religious leaders who threaten with the fear of god.


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## Milouk84

Eco-Mariner said:


> If Egypt is to become democratic, would anyone like to share opinions on the difference between *"Power"* and* "Control"* ?
> 
> 
> Eco-Mariner


IMO, in an "ideal democratic country" people are the power and the president should have a democratic control over this power.


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## MaidenScotland

MaidenScotland said:


> Power belongs to the person who has their finger on the big red button, can call on the army, police etc for back up
> 
> Control belongs to the religious leaders who threaten with the fear of god.





but of course non believers cant be controlled.. so what happens then?


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## Eco-Mariner

*Power or Control ?*



Milouk84 said:


> IMO, in an "ideal democratic country" people are the power and the president should have a democratic control over this power.


Thanks. Two good versions to start with.

Don't you think in an ideal situation, that the security forces should be working for the people who you state should have the power and not the other way round controlling them as it is in Egypt? 

And don't you think they will remain in control, whoever is in power?....
Please refer to a previous "The Generals" link posted earlier by Maiden. 



Eco-Mariner


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## Milouk84

Eco-Mariner said:


> Thanks. Two good versions to start with.
> 
> Don't you think in an ideal situation, that the security forces should be working for the people who you state should have the power and not the other way round controlling them as it is in Egypt?
> 
> And don't you think they will remain in control, whoever is in power?....
> Please refer to a previous "The Generals" link posted earlier by Maiden.
> 
> 
> 
> Eco-Mariner


The Egyptian Republic of Retired Generals - By Zeinab Abul-Magd | The Middle East Channel

Well you were asking about the "democratic" Egypt and my answer was about an ideal democratic country,which in this case is not Egypt. Having the chance to elect our president doesn't make us a democratic country yet, but it's still a great achievement.

In an ideal situation, the armed forces will not revolt against King Farouk (I still don't know what was wrong with Egypt at that time), that's why I think that they took it for granted, we revolted so we have the right to rule it until there's another revolution (Jan 25). And yes, they should be working for the people, not the people working for them "in an democratic place", but hey, that's what the revolution was all about.

Yes, they will remain in control (for some time) and I'm not against that. When I hire a new employee who's younger and well educated I cannot get rid of all the seniors because simply they know EVERYTHING about the place. What took place in 60 years cannot be fixed in a 4 year period.


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## hhaddad

*Protesters burn and ransack Shafiq's campaign headquarters*

A group of protesters stormed the campaign headquarters of presidential candidate Ahmed Shafiq late Monday night, ransacking and burning the offices there.
A secretary working at the campaign offices, Heba Hamed, told Egypt Independent that the campaign workers were notified to leave before the fire started and that the intruders had been apprehended. The fire was later extinguished.
An eyewitness told Egypt Independent that some 400 people arrived from the direction of Tahrir Square chanting against feloul, or remnants of the former regime. They broke into the villa near Vini Square in Dokki that hosts Shafiq's offices, and then stole computers and documents and threw some into the street.
Shafiq's supporters gathered outside the headquarters, chanting, "Down with the Supreme Guide [of the Muslim Brotherhood]," and "The poll will show Shafiq is the President."
Earlier Monday, the Presidential Elections Commission announced that Shafiq, Mubarak's last Prime Minister and former airforce general, would proceed to a runoff against the Muslim Brotherhood's Mohamed Morsy.
Shafiq finished second in the presidential election, asserting his credentials as the candidate most able to return security to Egypt.


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## canuck2010

So they burned down his campaign office? Shafiq should be able to spin this as an example of lawlessness in the country.


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## hhaddad

canuck2010 said:


> So they burned down his campaign office? Shafiq should be able to spin this as an example of lawlessness in the country.


I don't think we need examples of lawllessness when kidnappings and killing of police officers are a daily occurance along with the amount of drugs and guns being found.


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## MaidenScotland

According to the popular Egyptian website, El Bashayer, Muhammad Morsi, the Muslim Brotherhood presidential candidate, just declared that he will "achieve the Islamic conquest (fath) of Egypt for the second time, and make all Christians convert to Islam, or else pay the jizya," the traditional Islamic tax, or financial tribute, required of non-Muslim "dhimmis."





Muhammad Morsi: A slip of the tongue?



In a brief report written by Samuel al-Ashay and published by El Bashayer on May 27, Morsi allegedly made these comments while speaking with a journalist at the headquarters of the Muslim Brotherhood's Freedom and Justice Party, adding "We will not allow Ahmed Shafiq [his contending presidential candidate] or anyone else to impede our second Islamic conquest of Egypt."

After his interviewer pointed out that the first Muslim conquest of Egypt was "carried out at the hands of Amr bin al-As [in 641]," he asked Morsi, "Who will the second Islamic conqueror be?" The presidential candidate replied, "The second Muslim conqueror will be Muhammad Morsi," referring to himself, "and history will record it."

When asked what he thought about many Christian Copts coming out to vote for his secular opponent, Ahmed Shafiq, Morsi reportedly said, "They need to know that conquest is coming, and Egypt will be Islamic, and that they must pay jizya or emigrate."

If this interview is accurate, certainly Morsi would not be the first political Islamist in Egypt to say he wants to see the nation's Christians subjugated and made to pay jizya 

However, considering that English language media are currently reporting that Morsi is trying to woo Egypt's Christians and women, to win more votes, it is difficult to imagine that he actually made these comments: one does not doubt that he favors the idea of a "second Islamic conquest" and the subjugation of Christians; one doubts that he would be so foolish as to reveal his mind now, publicly, and thereby jeopardize his chances of winning the presidency.

Then again, his remarks are reported in the context of a private meeting at the headquarters of the Brotherhood's political party. Perhaps a relaxed Morsi thought he was speaking to a fellow Islamist who would not expose him? Perhaps


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## Eco-Mariner

Like I said before Maiden. 
Islamic radicalization through the back door, because the 84 million population of the country is made up of backward, uneducated voters.

Saladin did this in the middle-ages and Morsi thinks he is a reincarnation.
I really fear the worst if he gets in.

Eco-Mariner.


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## hhaddad

Eco-Mariner said:


> Like I said before Maiden.
> Islamic radicalization through the back door, because the 84 million population of the country is made up of backward, uneducated voters.
> 
> Saladin did this in the middle-ages and Morsi thinks he is a reincarnation.
> I really fear the worst if he gets in.
> 
> Eco-Mariner.


I also fear the worst as they are liars and always do what they say they won't.


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## Milouk84

I think Shafiq or Morsy should sign a marriage contract with the Egyptians, where the people will have the right to divorce.


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## firstfossil

2012 Egyptian Presidential Election Betting Odds |Bet at Ladbrokes.com


Latest odds: it's 8/11 on Morsi and evens on Shafiq in the Cairo betting shops.


_(For those unacquainted with this, 8/11 means that for every pound you put on Mursi, you get 1.73 back if he wins. "Evens" means that for every pound you put on Shafiq, you get 2 back if he wins.) 
_

Political betting is a good idea - bet on the guy you hate and you get a sweetener if he wins.


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## MaidenScotland

firstfossil said:


> 2012 Egyptian Presidential Election Betting Odds |Bet at Ladbrokes.com
> 
> 
> Latest odds: it's 8/11 on Morsi and evens on Shafiq in the Cairo betting shops.
> 
> 
> _(For those unacquainted with this, 8/11 means that for every pound you put on Mursi, you get 1.73 back if he wins. "Evens" means that for every pound you put on Shafiq, you get 2 back if he wins.)
> _
> 
> Political betting is a good idea - bet on the guy you hate and you get a sweetener if he wins.




and pray the shops havent been closed down before you collect your winnings


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## aykalam

MaidenScotland said:


> and pray the shops havent been closed down before you collect your winnings


you can always bet online, unless the internet is closed down too


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## expatagogo

Mr. Shafiq was the topic of the guest lecturer at the local mosque this afternoon.


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## DeadGuy

MaidenScotland said:


> and pray the shops havent been closed down before you collect your winnings


Mmmmmmm, pray to who? :eyebrows:



> Friday, June 1st, 2012; 02:08.
> 
> Tens of Agouza residents protested on Gala'a Bridge against docking a cruise ship, with a license to serve liquor on board, in front of The Agouza Mosque; which the residents considered to be _against the teachings of Islam_, wondering "_How can a ship that serves alchols and has a night club on board be in a place where a mosque is?_".


This was the translation for the first paragraph of the article on the Arabic El Youm El Sabe'e..............But I think all of you folks can guess what's in the rest of the article 

Çáíæã ÇáÓÇÈÚ | ÈÇáÕæÑ.. ÊÙÇåÑÉ ÈÇáÚÌæÒÉ áãäÚ æÞæÝ ÈÇÎÑÉ ãÕÑÍ áåÇ ÈÇáÎãæÑ ÃãÇã ãÓÌÏ Pictures provided in the link, and "surprisingly", not too many bearded folks between the protesters, if not any


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## DeadGuy

aykalam said:


> you can always bet online, unless the internet is closed down too


Well they're working on banning porns now, guess any other "haram activities" will be included in the banning list........

But there are websites that are _truly Islamic_ (That's what some Muslims call those websites anyway!) Such as the Halal dating websites, Halal chat websites, and Halal make up websites etc., so I think internet won't be totally down, people need to see the Halal stuff after all


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