# General Election is on 20 December



## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

The date has been criticised by some as being too close to Christmas, when many voters will be on holiday, but the president says it will give the parties more time to constitute the new parliament (i.e. negotiate alliances, since there will almost certainly not be an outright majority for any single party).

Spanish general election 2015: Prime Minister sets December 20 as Spanish general election date | In English | EL PAÍS


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Alcalaina said:


> The date has been criticised by some as being too close to Christmas, when many voters will be on holiday, but the president says it will give the parties more time to constitute the new parliament (i.e. negotiate alliances, since there will almost certainly not be an outright majority for any single party).
> 
> Spanish general election 2015: Prime Minister sets December 20 as Spanish general election date | In English | EL PAÍS


This was announced a couple of weeks ago, wasn't t? I've already got it in my diary!
Imo it's an odd choice of date.
I forecast a PP/Cs coalition...


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## webmarcos (Dec 25, 2012)

An election then kind of makes sense - tends to be a bit of an "end of term"/party atmosphere from mid December until 6 January anyway.
The weekend crowds in December Madrid will be horrendous even before the political rallies...
Just as Cameron won the last election in the UK, I can see the PP winning this one.


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## smitty5668 (Feb 25, 2015)

mrypg9 said:


> This was announced a couple of weeks ago, wasn't t? I've already got it in my diary!
> Imo it's an odd choice of date.
> I forecast a PP/Cs coalition...


think you might be right at this moment in time.


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## 90199 (Mar 21, 2010)

Bit of a non event for us not being eligible to vote, couldn't vote in the U.K. elections either, voting papers did not arrive, surprise surprise.


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## Rabbitcat (Aug 31, 2014)

Go PCE!!!


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

mrypg9 said:


> This was announced a couple of weeks ago, wasn't t? I've already got it in my diary!
> Imo it's an odd choice of date.
> I forecast a PP/Cs coalition...


I don't think it was officially announced until yesterday. People are upset because he announced it on TV instead of in parliamanent.

Cs have ruled out a formal coalitiion with PP haven't they? Though they said they might consider an "acuerdo" with either the PSOE or PP. However, given the horsestrading that went on in Andalucia I'm highly sceptical about any such pre-election statements.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Alcalaina said:


> I don't think it was officially announced until yesterday. People are upset because he announced it on TV instead of in parliamanent.
> 
> Cs have ruled out a formal coalitiion with PP haven't they? Though they said they might consider an "acuerdo" with either the PSOE or PP. However, given the horsestrading that went on in Andalucia I'm highly sceptical about any such pre-election statements.


December 20th has definitely been talked about before...As I said, it's in my diary and I think I've mentioned it on this Forum.
If Cs get a sniff of power they'll go for it, like ANEL in Greece and the Lib Dems in 2010. It's what political parties are for.
Looks as if the Right is resurgent all over Europe. Syriza may have won but the hard left faction that split didn't win a seat and poor old Tsipras has to implement harsher bail out terms than he was originally offered, Hollande's unpopularity continues to sink even further, Corbyn hasn't a cat's chance in hell in 2020 and it's very likely we'll see Rajoy back in charge...
Obama's successor could well be a right-wing nutter and Merkel's star is on the wane because of her handling of the refugee crisis...


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## skip o (Aug 1, 2011)

It blows my mind that the prime minister of a country with 23% unemployment would get the most votes. It was about 23% when he was voted in. What a success.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

skip o said:


> It blows my mind that the prime minister of a country with 23% unemployment would get the most votes. It was about 23% when he was voted in. What a success.


As I said on another thread....75% have work. Poorly paid work, insecure work, part-time work but work. 
Wasn't it Galbraith who formulated the one-third/two-thirds dilemma, the problem whereby you have to persuade the two-thirds who aren't on the breadline to vote for the betterment of those who are?
Left-wing Parties haven't been too good at persuading people to do that.


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## webmarcos (Dec 25, 2012)

There is a bit of a difference between having a situation where unemployment is rising by between one and two million each year, and the situation now where it is falling by 400,000 each year (things like car sales and internal tourism are rising so you can take for granted that at least part of the population are seeing the improvement).
Having said that I believe that the Spanish people, workforce and companies achieved all this despite the austerity policies, not because of them. 
There is a perception that the economy was in freefall before because of the poor policies of the PSOE - it's going to be very difficult to dent that perception. It's not enough to state "oh the property boom caused the subsequent crash and we can blame the PP from the 90s for that" - the PSOE had plenty of years in power to address the situation.
The PP will win the election because a majority of the electorate will not trust the left on the economy. [don't shoot the messenger]


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## Trubrit (Nov 24, 2010)

I teach the CEO of a large Spanish bank and he feels the date was chosen as this is just after the time when yearly bonus are paid.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

webmarcos said:


> There is a bit of a difference between having a situation where unemployment is rising by between one and two million each year, and the situation now where it is falling by 400,000 each year (things like car sales and internal tourism are rising so you can take for granted that at least part of the population are seeing the improvement).
> Having said that I believe that the Spanish people, workforce and companies achieved all this despite the austerity policies, not because of them.
> There is a perception that the economy was in freefall before because of the poor policies of the PSOE - it's going to be very difficult to dent that perception. It's not enough to state "oh the property boom caused the subsequent crash and we can blame the PP from the 90s for that" - the PSOE had plenty of years in power to address the situation.
> The PP will win the election because a majority of the electorate will not trust the left on the economy. [don't shoot the messenger]


No, my aim is not trained on you as I think you are right. The Left is not trusted with the economy in Spain or the UK, which is odd as close examination of the record of the Right reveals a catalogue of errors.
I honestly can't see what PSOE could have done to prevent the construction boom from getting out of hand. Before the massive flow of cheap money into Spanish banks and into the pockets of construction and real estate companies and private house purchasers, Spain's deficit and debt was below the European average and entirely manageable. Government borrowing costs were low too. What could Zapatero have done to stop the inflow of cheap capital, mainly from German banks? EU rules prohibit restrictions on capital movement across EU member state borders.
When the crash came in 2006 and banks found themselves over-extended, unemployment soared as the construction bubble bust and the Government had to fund the cost of paro.
What do you think Zapatero could have done? Spain's debt was and is almost entirely private - over 80% of Spaniards 'own' their homes and a staggering 70% plus own second homes, according to statistics which I'll try to find should there be any doubt about that.
Sadly, it looks as if nothing has been learnt and the whole cycle is set to repeat itself.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

*Over 80 percent of Spanish residents own their own home, with around 50 percent of the population owning their home outright, without a mortgage.*

Found this , from a property company, Expatica, but still looking for a more 'official' source.


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## webmarcos (Dec 25, 2012)

mrypg9 said:


> *Over 80 percent of Spanish residents own their own home, with around 50 percent of the population owning their home outright, without a mortgage.*
> 
> Found this , from a property company, Expatica, but still looking for a more 'official' source.


Yes. Looks like the whole sorry boom is about to start again....(a certain amount of growth is good as the construction industry requires workers when expanding)

"Real estate investment in Spain hits new record"
La inversi?n inmobiliaria en Espa?a bate r?cord


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## webmarcos (Dec 25, 2012)

> What do you think Zapatero could have done?


Increase stamp duty to such high levels that the government could have built up enormous reserves to combat any future slumps? The advantage of that is you can reduce stamp duty if needed.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

webmarcos said:


> Increase stamp duty to such high levels that the government could have built up enormous reserves to combat any future slumps? The advantage of that is you can reduce stamp duty if needed.


I guess that's one way....it wouldn't have been popular, though.
Have you looked at the levels of Stamp Duty set recently by the SNP?


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## Justina (Jan 25, 2013)

*Home owners*



mrypg9 said:


> *Over 80 percent of Spanish residents own their own home, with around 50 percent of the population owning their home outright, without a mortgage.*
> 
> Found this , from a property company, Expatica, but still looking for a more 'official' source.


I am wondering if bureaucrats, in the days of PSOE got special rates for buying property. Some very ordinary people that I have met, seem to own their homes. I can understand how some have second homes, cos of the laws of inheritance, etc.,


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## gus-lopez (Jan 4, 2010)

mrypg9 said:


> As I said on another thread....75% have work. Poorly paid work, insecure work, part-time work but work.
> .


Yes but that doesn't tell the whole story. If 23 % unemployed is 4 million , yes the other 13 million have work . But...................they aren't 75% of the population.
THe 23 % is the % of the Working population which by all accounts & last time I looked , was a total of 17million , both employed & self-employed. 
So out of a population of nigh on 47 million that leaves 30 million 
30million aren't all pensioners & school children so what are they ? How many are there & doing what.  

Bit like the UK 30 million working & 35 million who aren't all at school/uni or pensioners ?


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Justina said:


> I am wondering if bureaucrats, in the days of PSOE got special rates for buying property. Some very ordinary people that I have met, seem to own their homes. I can understand how some have second homes, cos of the laws of inheritance, etc.,


I was told that the reason Spain has such high levels of home ownership is because property was always regarded as safer than money in the bank. 

There is a derelict house in our street and I know the owner, who inherited it but has never lived in it. She lives in Madrid, and says this house is her "pension". 

I also know lots of very ordinary families who as well as their house in the village, own a piso on the coast and/or a cottage in the campo where they grow produce and keep pigs and hens. They wouldn't dream of selling them, even when things get really tough. They belong to the family and will get passed down.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

gus-lopez said:


> Yes but that doesn't tell the whole story. If 23 % unemployed is 4 million , yes the other 13 million have work . But...................they aren't 75% of the population.
> THe 23 % is the % of the Working population which by all accounts & last time I looked , was a total of 17million , both employed & self-employed.
> So out of a population of nigh on 47 million that leaves 30 million
> 30million aren't all pensioners & school children so what are they ? How many are there & doing what.
> ...


Lots of them are caring for children or ageing relatives. They can't work and they don't sign on. Then there are what were traditionally called "housewives" who stay at home and keep house for the wage earner, though they come in both genders these days.


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

Alcalaina said:


> I was told that the reason Spain has such high levels of home ownership is because property was always regarded as safer than money in the bank.
> 
> There is a derelict house in our street and I know the owner, who inherited it but has never lived in it. She lives in Madrid, and says this house is her "pension".
> 
> I also know lots of very ordinary families who as well as their house in the village, own a piso on the coast and/or a cottage in the campo where they grow produce and keep pigs and hens. They wouldn't dream of selling them, even when things get really tough. They belong to the family and will get passed down.


The house opposite mine hasn't been lived in (except by cats) for the 12.5 years I've owned this house. The owner inherited it and lives down in the town centre but either she or her husband come every day to feed the cats and clean the house, and they maintain it immaculately. The house immediately behind mine is owned by her brother, who inherited it from his mother a few years ago, and he doesn't live here either but in Granada. Another brother comes regularly to look after that house. 

Another couple we know who live nearby own 4 properties between them, and they are in their early 40s. 

None of these people are wealthy and the houses aren't high value properties either, but multiple property ownership does seem to be extremely common.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Lynn R said:


> The house opposite mine hasn't been lived in (except by cats) for the 12.5 years I've owned this house. The owner inherited it and lives down in the town centre but either she or her husband come every day to feed the cats and clean the house, and they maintain it immaculately. The house immediately behind mine is owned by her brother, who inherited it from his mother a few years ago, and he doesn't live here either but in Granada. Another brother comes regularly to look after that house.
> 
> Another couple we know who live nearby own 4 properties between them, and they are in their early 40s.
> 
> None of these people are wealthy and the houses aren't high value properties either, but multiple property ownership does seem to be extremely common.


Coming as we do from a country where there is a chronic housing shortage and sky-high prices, hanging on to properties you don't live in does seem odd to us Brits. But there are an estimated two million empty houses in Spain, and the population is falling. I wonder how other European countries compare?


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Alcalaina said:


> Coming as we do from a country where there is a chronic housing shortage and sky-high prices, hanging on to properties you don't live in does seem odd to us Brits. But there are an estimated two million empty houses in Spain, and the population is falling. I wonder how other European countries compare?


Quite a few in the Czech Republic. Some belonging to Jews who were put on transports in the War and who left no descendants, some belonging to people who left in 1968 because of the Soviet invasion and who either died or never came back, some confiscated from their owners after the socialist coup in 1948 and which no-one has claimed...
These properties can be found everywhere, in Prague and in tiny hamlets and come in all shapes and sizes from cottages to castles.
We once came across a deserted building that could have been a stately-home type residence, deserted and descending into ruin in the middle of nowhere. Eerie..but beautiful.
Some fine buildings that belonged to former German aristocracy in the areas where Germans were expelled in 1946 (Sudetenland) were turned into children's homes, army quarters or convalescent or old people's homes after 1948 then closed after the Velvet Revolution 1989. Some of the former owners have managed to reclaim their properties but as they were mostly poorly maintained during the socialist era they can't afford to renovate them so they moulder empty.
It's a shame. There is a beautiful big empty house in the village I lived in, it was built at the end of the nineteenth century for a wealthy German Jewish factory owner. It had a turret with a large bronze weather cock on it and my Czech friend, oblivious of the connotation, refers to it as 'The big cock of Roztoky'.


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

We have to remember that many of the working age voters of today have seen their parents and families´wealth grow exponentially after the end of the dictatorship.

No-one is going to put that one down to socialism. And they all hope the same happens again in the future.

Even in Andalucia the right wing still got in despite strong rumours of corruption and dishonest accounting at the cost of the vast majority of voters. 
One friend of mine who is senior management in banking in Madrid believes that this is because a significant part of the lower earning population still aspire to forming part of this "back hander / under the table society" because by doing an honest days work you will only get a reasonable income, whereas where there is a chance of getting into the "club", you can get properly rich very easily.

Even though I think that his scepticism is a little on the high side, there probably is some truth in it. It was only 10 years ago, when I first started to look into buying a property in Madrid that I was presented a form in an "estate agents" that asked me for my "earnings through employment / professional work" and then, on the next line asked for "earnings _in black_"... They were amazed when I sadi that I only had income via my employment contract....

The PP are bastions of this world, and there are still not enough truly left wing people prepared to sacrifice their own chances of getting rich to make a difference.


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## webmarcos (Dec 25, 2012)

Alcalaina said:


> Coming as we do from a country where there is a chronic housing shortage and sky-high prices, hanging on to properties you don't live in does seem odd to us Brits. But there are an estimated two million empty houses in Spain, and the population is falling. I wonder how other European countries compare?


Over perhaps the last 60 years the population has moved from country villages to the cities. It was commonplace for a family to buy an apartment in the city and keep the old place in their "village" for get-togethers and the August migration - and to be honest they wouldn't have received much for the village place (unless it was near the coast or tourist destination). Then as the family members grew up and progressed in their career, they'd try and buy an apartment for when they had a family. 
You will find that prices have stayed relatively high in cities like Madrid, Pamplona or Barcelona, yet there are areas in rural zones where a whole village can be bought for peanuts. A bit like England - you can still find "bargains" in places like Middlesbrough, Grimsby or Bradford compared to the prices in the south.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

EU Economic and Monetary Affairs Commissioner Pierre Moscovici said yesterday that the Commission believes Spain risks missing its deficit targets for this and next year. He said, “The Commission will invite the [Spanish] authorities to strictly execute the 2015 budget…and take the necessary measures within the national budgetary process to ensure that its 2016 budget will be compliant.” Ahead of yesterday’s Eurogroup meeting, Spanish Economy Minister Luis de Guindos had told journalists that the Commission “has not asked for more cuts. Absolutely nothing.”
*
Separately, a new TNS poll for Antena 3 has Spanish Prime Minister Mariano Rajoy’s centre-right Partido Popular in the lead on 27%, the Socialist Party on 21.9%, the centrist party Ciudadanos on 16.5% and the anti-establishment Podemos on 14.8%.*

Source: The Financial Times El País Expansión El Mundo Antena 3


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Overandout said:


> *Even in Andalucia the right wing still got in* despite strong rumours of corruption and dishonest accounting at the cost of the vast majority of voters.


Where did you get that from?


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

baldilocks said:


> Where did you get that from?


Sorry, you are absolutely right to pull me up on that one!

I seem to have slipped into believing that any party that is not Podemos or Izq Unida is "right wing".

Clearly PSOE is not "right wing", but I guess you can see why my brain was going in the direction it took!!!


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Today's "How would you vote if the election took place tomorrow" poll shows PP, PSOE and Ciudadanos more or less neck and neck. Podemos have suffered a drop, as they seem to have lost their way and are giving mixed messages at the moment. Still a lot of people who haven't made their mind up though.

Clima político en España | EspaÃ±a | EL PAÃ�S


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Alcalaina said:


> Today's "How would you vote if the election took place tomorrow" poll shows PP, PSOE and Ciudadanos more or less neck and neck. Podemos have suffered a drop, as they seem to have lost their way and are giving mixed messages at the moment. Still a lot of people who haven't made their mind up though.
> 
> Clima político en España | EspaÃ±a | EL PAÃ�S


History shows that the public, many of whom are disinterested in politics, will not support parties they perceive to be on the 'extreme' left or right.
Podemos' mistake was to align itself with Syriza in Greece, a good example of a party that promises much and delivers nothing..in fact, Syriza made things far worse. It also has links with the Bolivar countries in South America, most of whose economies are basket cases.
Hardly confidence- inspiring.
The one exception is the Front National. Clever woman, that Marine Le Pen. Clever and dangerous...and a strong contender to be French President.
Some wise person once said that neither socialism nor nationalism can win converts without a mixture of each. Hitler, Stalin, Franco, Mussolini, Castro, Chavez....all seem to prove this.
Le Pen has certainly combined the two, very successfully. She is calling for an increase in wages and benefits.......but only for the French.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

mrypg9 said:


> the Bolivar countries in South America, most of whose economies are basket cases.


I think you are being a little unfair there. Many of the S.American counties economies are manipulated by the US for the benefit of the US. I will give you an example:

Prior to Pres Virgilio Barco refusing to renew the "Coffee Pact," there was an agreement that the US would buy all the Colombian coffee production but, on their terms. These required progressive devaluation of the Colombian peso against the US dollar. When I first went there, if memory serves me correctly the dollar was worth 600 pesos, five years later it was worth over 3,000 pesos,not because the dollar have increased in value five-fold but because the enforced devaluation had reduced the value of the peso fivefold. Now when your currency is reduced in value to that of papel higiénico, you have very little bargaining power on the world's commerce stage and all imports become prohibitively expensive. The value of people's incomes similarly falls, tempting them into crime in order to survive. When you have a choice between steal or starve, you don't have much choice.

Compounding all this is the US mafia's control of the drugs business.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

baldilocks said:


> I think you are being a little unfair there. Many of the S.American counties economies are manipulated by the US for the benefit of the US. I will give you an example:
> 
> Prior to Pres Virgilio Barco refusing to renew the "Coffee Pact," there was an agreement that the US would buy all the Colombian coffee production but, on their terms. These required progressive devaluation of the Colombian peso against the US dollar. When I first went there, if memory serves me correctly the dollar was worth 600 pesos, five years later it was worth over 3,000 pesos,not because the dollar have increased in value five-fold but because the enforced devaluation had reduced the value of the peso fivefold. Now when your currency is reduced in value to that of papel higiénico, you have very little bargaining power on the world's commerce stage and all imports become prohibitively expensive. The value of people's incomes similarly falls, tempting them into crime in order to survive. When you have a choice between steal or starve, you don't have much choice.
> 
> Compounding all this is the US mafia's control of the drugs business.


That's all true. But in spite of all that, many non-'socialist' South American countries have succeeded in raising standards of health, education and reducing poverty. Interesting too to note that Cuba has introduced many 'capitalist' reforms.
Countries like Nicaragua and Venezuela might, arguably, have achieved more for their peoples had they been guided more by pragmatism and less by ideology.
Perhaps Castro and co might have achieved more had they heeded Marx's injunction to see the world as it is and not as we'd like it to be.
The dominance of the mighty United States in South America is a sad fact of life. A lot of political skill is needed to navigate dangerous waters.


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## Isobella (Oct 16, 2014)

mrypg9 said:


> EU Economic and Monetary Affairs Commissioner Pierre Moscovici said yesterday that the Commission believes Spain risks missing its deficit targets for this and next year. He said, “The Commission will invite the [Spanish] authorities to strictly execute the 2015 budget…and take the necessary measures within the national budgetary process to ensure that its 2016 budget will be compliant.” Ahead of yesterday’s Eurogroup meeting, Spanish Economy Minister Luis de Guindos had told journalists that the Commission “has not asked for more cuts. Absolutely nothing.”
> *
> Separately, a new TNS poll for Antena 3 has Spanish Prime Minister Mariano Rajoy’s centre-right Partido Popular in the lead on 27%, the Socialist Party on 21.9%, the centrist party Ciudadanos on 16.5% and the anti-establishment Podemos on 14.8%.*
> 
> Source: The Financial Times El País Expansión El Mundo Antena 3


Seems as if Brussels are now asking for cuts.

EU orders Spain to re-write national budget, demanding more cuts - Telegraph


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

Isobella said:


> Seems as if Brussels are now asking for cuts.
> 
> EU orders Spain to re-write national budget, demanding more cuts - Telegraph


I don't like a lot of the PP's policies, but one thing I think Rajoy and his Government deserve credit for is their handling of the EU. He was pressured to ask for a full bailout and refused, insisting instead that only funds to shore up the banks were needed, and of the €100bn line of credit for the banks that was made available, only €41bn was used which they have since started to repay, earlier than was required under the terms of the agreement. After that both the EU and the IMF have repeatedly tried urging him to raise IVA and scrap the national minimum wage, which he has also refused to do. It would not surprise me if they similarly stood firm against these demands too, and still met or very nearly met their deficit targets. All the comment from Ministers so far seems to indicate that's what they intend to do.

http://economia.elpais.com/economia/2015/10/13/actualidad/1444689239_824647.html


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## CarolRamos (Sep 20, 2015)

I like so much Ciudadanos. I will vote for them on 20th December 

I hope they win presence in the Spanish political scheme. They deserve it for sure !


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## Isobella (Oct 16, 2014)

Lynn R said:


> I don't like a lot of the PP's policies, but one thing I think Rajoy and his Government deserve credit for is their handling of the EU. He was pressured to ask for a full bailout and refused, insisting instead that only funds to shore up the banks were needed, and of the €100bn line of credit for the banks that was made available, only €41bn was used which they have since started to repay, earlier than was required under the terms of the agreement. After that both the EU and the IMF have repeatedly tried urging him to raise IVA and scrap the national minimum wage, which he has also refused to do. It would not surprise me if they similarly stood firm against these demands too, and still met or very nearly met their deficit targets. All the comment from Ministers so far seems to indicate that's what they intend to do.
> 
> ComisiÃ³n Europea: Rajoy responde a Bruselas: â€œEspaÃ±a no incumplirÃ¡ el dÃ©ficitâ€� | EconomÃ­a | EL PAÃ�S


Difficult to know, won't be the first time Politicians have lied close to an election and El Pais is not always impartial. Someone from IMF says that Spain's growth is illusory but they have been wrong before too. I noticed in Spain a couple of weeks ago that it depended on whose side they were on as to their views. PP supporters think all is going well but supporters of other parties call Rajoy a liar. Spain does seem to be picking up, as usual, time will tell.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

*Mariano Rajoy se ha visto envuelto en una nueva polémica cuando apenas quedan dos meses para las elecciones generales. Según ha trascendido, el padre del presidente del Gobierno, que vive en La Moncloa desde que su hijo ganó las elecciones en 2011, recibe asistencia las 24 horas del día por parte de dos personas contratadas por Presidencia. Las reacciones no se han hecho esperar, y ya hay quien avisa de que este escándalo podría costarle caro al PP en las elecciones.

La asistencia al padre de Rajoy está alejada de los servicios sanitarios a los que tiene derecho el presidente y su familiaLa noticia, que ha dado a conocer eldiario.es, ha sorprendido a propios y extraños por lo que supone: el presidente del Gobierno está costeando los cuidados de su padre, de 95 años, con el dinero de todos los españoles.*

Bolsamania


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

mrypg9 said:


> *Mariano Rajoy se ha visto envuelto en una nueva polémica cuando apenas quedan dos meses para las elecciones generales. Según ha trascendido, el padre del presidente del Gobierno, que vive en La Moncloa desde que su hijo ganó las elecciones en 2011, recibe asistencia las 24 horas del día por parte de dos personas contratadas por Presidencia. Las reacciones no se han hecho esperar, y ya hay quien avisa de que este escándalo podría costarle caro al PP en las elecciones.
> 
> La asistencia al padre de Rajoy está alejada de los servicios sanitarios a los que tiene derecho el presidente y su familiaLa noticia, que ha dado a conocer eldiario.es, ha sorprendido a propios y extraños por lo que supone: el presidente del Gobierno está costeando los cuidados de su padre, de 95 años, con el dinero de todos los españoles.*
> 
> Bolsamania


As ever, one law for them and another for everybody else.


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

Isobella said:


> Difficult to know, won't be the first time Politicians have lied close to an election and El Pais is not always impartial. Someone from IMF says that Spain's growth is illusory but they have been wrong before too. I noticed in Spain a couple of weeks ago that it depended on whose side they were on as to their views. PP supporters think all is going well but supporters of other parties call Rajoy a liar. Spain does seem to be picking up, as usual, time will tell.


The El Pais article is by no means the only one.

Guindos detecta un margen de 8.500 millones para cumplir con el d?ficit

Whether what the Government is saying is right or wrong remains to be seen, but it seems pretty clear to me that they have no intention of bowing to the EU's demands regarding the 2016 budget.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Lynn R said:


> The El Pais article is by no means the only one.
> 
> Guindos detecta un margen de 8.500 millones para cumplir con el d?ficit
> 
> Whether what the Government is saying is right or wrong remains to be seen, but it seems pretty clear to me that they have no intention of bowing to the EU's demands regarding the 2016 budget.


Especially if they anticipate being out of office when the time comes. 

Locally, third week in June is the "Cherry Festival" and the PP, anticipating that they would not be re-elected, had made absolutely no preparation leaving a huge task for the new incumbents. Even the PP alcalde had walked out as soon as the results were known and didn't even do the formal hand-over to the PSOE.


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

What do you all think of these proposals from Podemos?


Elecciones Generales: Podemos completar? los sueldos bajos para que nadie cobre menos de 900 euros | EL MUNDO

About the only thing in there which I think is a good idea is raising the minimum wage, in stages, to €800 per month.

If low paid workers were to be paid a complementary salary to bring their earnings up to €900, I can just see it going the same way as tax credits in the UK, with employers who pay poverty wages being subsidised by the taxpayer.

And as for families without an income being paid €1020 per month for a family of four, for a start I'm sure it's not affordable, and I can just imagine some of the families around me with five or six children coining it in, whilst working couples can only afford one or two children.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Lynn R said:


> What do you all think of these proposals from Podemos?
> 
> 
> Elecciones Generales: Podemos completar? los sueldos bajos para que nadie cobre menos de 900 euros | EL MUNDO
> ...


Yes, I agree with you. The Minimum Wage should be a Living Wage. It's ludicrous that we have to support the retention of Tax Credits and Housing Benefit in the UK in the absence of a living wage and rent controls, paid to stingy employers and greedy landlords by us taxpayers. Not a good idea to replicate the situation in Spain.
The problem with most of these proposals is that those who advocate them rarely if ever have solid ideas as to how they could be paid for. Trudeau in Canada has the right idea...raising taxes on the richest but only by 1% , not really enough to scare multi-millionaires to flee to the U.S. and to cut taxes on the poorest.
It doesn't really matter what Podemos comes up with as they are toast, a far fourth in the polls, with Iglesias being trounced by Riviera in the Sexta debate not helping.

Meanwhile, in the UK, we now have posh Stalinist Seamus Milne and Trot sympathiser Andrew Mitchell working for Corbyn. 
McDonnell, Milne and Fisher...let's hope Cameron has only three wishes.

Way back in 2011 when a load of people sat in squares all over Spain I was called a cynic when I said 15M would come to nothing. I remembered 1968. In the election that year Rajoy won.
When Syriza won in Greece I said no good would come of it. I was told I was misguided. Syriza screwed up the economy, accepted worse terms in return for a bailout and the Party split with the moderate faction winning the last election.
I said that the disaffected should join mainstream Parties and work from within for change. A new Party would fizz and burn out, I said. Again, I was told that the people were disenchanted with mainstream Parties and were desperate for change. Now PP leads in the polls with PSOE second.
I've been told I'm 'not listening' to what is happening with the UK Labour Party. I believe that Labour is set on a course for self-destruction. It's time it was understood that left wing activists are not the electorate as a whole. A left led Labour is not electable. Period. And even less so than in 1983.
The whole scene in Spain and the UK is deeply depressing. PP look set to win on D20.
The only ray of light beams from Canada...Vive Justin Trudeau!!!!.


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