# Citizenship Form Fill up - Questions I seek clarifications



## Cartisol (Oct 5, 2012)

Hi All

I am filling up the Citizenship application online. I've completed the first draft and collated all the questions below where I need the guidance on the correct answer to be filled. Could someone who have done this recently help me please based on the situations for the questions below I have.

*1. National ID Card*

I am originally from India, yet, 5 years ago before I migrated, our National ID Card Aadhar wasn't that popular and mandatory, hence didn't bothered to get one. 

Thus, I have selected *"NO"* for this question as I don't have this, but they mentioned below notes: *So I have provided PAN and License card details. Is that ok?*

_India

For applicants from India, the preferred identification for Indian nationals is the Aadhaar card. As the Aadhaar card does not have an expiry date, the applicant should leave the ‘Expiry Date’ field blank.

If the applicant does not have an Aadhaar card, they may enter their PAN card, drivers licence, or voter ID numbers under Other identity documents section on the form.
_


*2. Can I also put Medicare and TFN details that are issued in australia although I have given Indian ID card documents like PAN, license etc*

*3. Citizenship details
Has this applicant ever held citizenship of any country? Include all current and all previous citizenships held.*

Yes / No?

I am Indian by birth, I don't have any other citizenship. Still I need to select Yes? If I select Yes, it asks for Citizenship details like place acquired and date acquired...Should I put city of birth and my birthday? And leave the date of expiry blank?

*4. Contact office
Which is the Immigration office closest to where the applicant lives?
*

Parramata / City? Which one would be faster in terms of processing any idea? Both are at same distance to me.

*5. Residential address*

Should I give India / Sydney address? I live in Australia for last 4-5 years.

*6. Does this parent have the details of the last passport used to enter or depart Australia?*

My Parent hasn't been to Australia any time before. Still should I select *"Yes"* and should we provide passport details even if parent didn't come to australia. My parent just have Indian passport and live in India. 

*7. Preferred citizenship application appointment location:*

Parramata / Sydney? Which one would be faster and quicker or is there any difference? Both are at same distance to me.

*8. Countries resided / visited
Since the age of 18, has the applicant lived or travelled outside of Australia?*

I went to thailand on transit (Morning to afternoon only) on the on arrival visa...Should I mention that? My flight arrived in Thailand in morning, so I just thought to go out and got on arrival visa and returned back on the afternoon for my connecting flight to Sydney. Should I mention?


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## kiwifruit (Dec 21, 2012)

Hi Cartisol,

My girlfriend applied for citizenship in May this year. These are her answers:

1. National ID Card
Avswer No and put your PAN, drivers licence and other IDs under Other identity documents, not in this section.
You can put your Medicare card in the Other identity documents section as well.

3. Citizenship details
Has this applicant ever held citizenship of any country? Include all current and all previous citizenships held.
The answer is Yes. You need to say you are Indian and put your city of birth as place acquired and your birthday as the date acquired. Leave the date of expiry blank.

4. Contact office
Which is the Immigration office closest to where the applicant lives?
I would choose City of Sydney. Parramatta has a huge backlog and is far slower processing applications and giving dates for citizenship test and ceremony.

5. Residential address
This is your current Sydney residential address. 

6. Does this parent have the details of the last passport used to enter or depart Australia?
If they have never been to Australia the answer should be No.

7. Preferred citizenship application appointment location:
Sydney is faster.

8. Countries resided / visited
Since the age of 18, has the applicant lived or travelled outside of Australia?

I went to thailand on transit (Morning to afternoon only) on the on arrival visa...Should I mention that? My flight arrived in Thailand in morning, so I just thought to go out and got on arrival visa and returned back on the afternoon for my connecting flight to Sydney. Should I mention?

Yes, you need to mention Thailand as you entered the country.


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## Cartisol (Oct 5, 2012)

kiwifruit said:


> Hi Cartisol,
> 
> My girlfriend applied for citizenship in May this year. These are her answers:
> 
> ...


Wow wonderful, thank you so much for your quick reply and great help. I will do as you (your GF) recommended as I am convinced with the logic of the answer.

I have few more questions if you could please help me (Alongside of the insights from your GF too).

*1. Proposed overseas travel
Does the applicant intend to depart Australia within the next 12 months?*

I ain't sure, but I want to travel sometime, but definitely not sure. Can I put No so that I can likely get the process relatively quicker? 


*2. Driver licence details
Give details as they appear in the applicant's driver licence.
*
What is the Document reference number? Is it the License Number?

*3. Bank Statement when I downloaded it says 25 May to 26 July 2018 while i downloaded online statement on 4th Aug 2018.

What would be the Date of issue?


What would be the Date of expiry ?

Its ridiculous to see they ask for an expiry and issue date lol :ranger: Please note, I have also placed a request to Bank now to provide me statement until yesterday from May 2018 as I am in the current accommodation only since May 2018. 

*

*4. what is date of registration field value I should put for Bank Statement? *

*5. Evidence of current residential address?*

Sharing with my friend in his 2 bed room rental apartment. So no contracts and or bills on my name...as I pay him weekly on bank transfer. Thus, I don't have electric, gas, internet and lease on my name. I don't even have a formal rental agreement with him as we are friends. What to do in this circumstance? 

_I am submitting bank statement for this reason, however, I have asked my friend to provide me electricity, gas and internet bills for last two months even though its on his name, can I upload these too along with my bank statement? I am also thinking to type a page of rental agreement for my friend to sign on it and I will get it signed from my tax agent too, all these required_? :ranger:


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## kiwifruit (Dec 21, 2012)

1. Proposed overseas travel
Does the applicant intend to depart Australia within the next 12 months?
The answer is no unless you have booked the trip already. If you book one before you get your citizenship you are supposed to email the department to update them on your travel plans. You won't be given a test date if they know you are overseas. Your citizenship won't be approved while you are outside the country either.

2. Driver licence details
What is the Document reference number? Is it the License Number?
It's the licence number.

The Date of issue and Date of expiry only apply to your drivers licence, not to a bank statement.
The bank statement is supposed to prove your address, therefore, it is useless if it doesn't have your current address on it. Do not submit one which shows an old address.

Date of registration field has nothing to do with a Bank Statement.

5. Evidence of current residential address
Use a recent bank statement that has your current address on it. If you haven't updated your address for your bank account yet you need to do it asap. 
Utility bills that do not have your name on them are useless. Do not submit those.
If your drivers licence shows your current address you can include that too. If it doesn't you need to get it updated.


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## Cartisol (Oct 5, 2012)

kiwifruit said:


> 1. Proposed overseas travel
> Does the applicant intend to depart Australia within the next 12 months?
> The answer is no unless you have booked the trip already. If you book one before you get your citizenship you are supposed to email the department to update them on your travel plans. You won't be given a test date if they know you are overseas. Your citizenship won't be approved while you are outside the country either.
> 
> ...



Wonderful, thank you so much again for your quick response


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## kiwifruit (Dec 21, 2012)

Cartisol said:


> Wonderful, thank you so much again for your quick response


You're welcome.


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## Cartisol (Oct 5, 2012)

*Few other quick questions: Some are quite silly but good to have this clarified than not  *

*1. Parent's citizenship (They are naturally Indians and live in india only and not citizens of any other country)*

Should I choose "*Yes*" and mention they are Indians and put their birthday as citizenship acquired date and place as city where they were born?

Or just say *No*


*2. Other associated family members*

Can I include my brother who actually live in india and an Indian citizen only.

*3. Passport (Indian passport)*

Should I attach both the expired and new indian passport? And all pages in that or only the front and back where my details are present? And should we also have the stamping pages of various countries and India and Australia? 

*4. Form 1195 Identity Form, should I print and fill with pen and get sing from my aussie tax agent and scan? Or I can even fill online and take print and sign and scan?*


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## kiwifruit (Dec 21, 2012)

1. Parent's citizenship
Choose Yes, mention they are Indians and put their birthday as citizenship acquired date and place as city where they were born.

2. Other associated family members
You must include all your siblings, deceased or alive.

3. Passport (Indian passport)
Attach your current passport but only pages where your details are present. There is another question where you need to attach a copy of the page of your passport that has your entry stamp to Australia. That is the proof of your first entry.

4. Form 1195 Identity Form you can fill online, then print, sign and scan.


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## andreyx108b (Mar 15, 2015)

kiwifruit said:


> You're welcome.


you are fire  even me got few answers  thank you!


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## Cartisol (Oct 5, 2012)

kiwifruit said:


> 1. Parent's citizenship
> Choose Yes, mention they are Indians and put their birthday as citizenship acquired date and place as city where they were born.
> 
> 2. Other associated family members
> ...


Brilliant, thank you very much again.

Quick clarification on the 3rd question answer. Well, I will do as you say, but should I also attach old Indian passport which is expired? If so, the details pages of that and any stamping pages? 

And, the old expired passport has my first stamping to Australia but on a different visa I came first (Work permit), so will I scan that visa page as well as the entry stamp pages? And additionally exit and entry stamp pages to Australia afterwards?


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## kiwifruit (Dec 21, 2012)

If your previous passport is the one that has the stamp for your initial entry related to your work visa, then you need to scan the pages with your personal details plus that initial entry stamp. There is no need to scan any other entry or exit stamps but it's your decision. You will have to take both passports with you on your interview day (which is your citizenship test date) and the agent should check both.


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## Cartisol (Oct 5, 2012)

kiwifruit said:


> If your previous passport is the one that has the stamp for your initial entry related to your work visa, then you need to scan the pages with your personal details plus that initial entry stamp. There is no need to scan any other entry or exit stamps but it's your decision. You will have to take both passports with you on your interview day (which is your citizenship test date) and the agent should check both.


Perfect, that answered all my queries  Thank you so much again


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## Cartisol (Oct 5, 2012)

*One other question, sorry *

*List all the countries where the applicant holds permanent residency and is not a citizen.*

Even though from my Visa grant number of PR or last entry to australia they would know and am eligible to apply for citizenship, so they should know I am a PR, still should I select Australia for this question field dropdown? Or just leave it blank?


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## kiwifruit (Dec 21, 2012)

List all the countries where the applicant holds permanent residency and is not a citizen.

List Australia.


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## Cartisol (Oct 5, 2012)

kiwifruit said:


> List all the countries where the applicant holds permanent residency and is not a citizen.
> 
> List Australia.


Perfect, TA


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## Cartisol (Oct 5, 2012)

*Has this parent ever held citizenship of any country?*

One parent is no more, should I put date ended as the death date? (I think I should leave the date ended blank even for the deceased)


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## Cartisol (Oct 5, 2012)

*Residence details
Previous country of residence*

Should I select India? Or leave it blank. As I am still an Indian citizen (Apparently resident) but not living in there now.


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## Cartisol (Oct 5, 2012)

8. Countries resided / visited
Since the age of 18, has the applicant lived or travelled outside of Australia?

I went to thailand on transit (Morning to afternoon only) on the on arrival visa.....The options are

Work/study
Business
Leisure or holiday
Other 


What should I choose? Should i choose *other* and mention the transit on arrival visa details and I went out from morning to noon? or choose *Leisure/holiday*


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## kiwifruit (Dec 21, 2012)

Cartisol said:


> *Residence details
> Previous country of residence*
> 
> Should I select India? Or leave it blank. As I am still an Indian citizen (Apparently resident) but not living in there now.


The question says clearly "*previous* country of residence" so you have to select India.


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## Cartisol (Oct 5, 2012)

kiwifruit said:


> The question says clearly "*previous* country of residence" so you have to select India.


Thank you very much; have filled up the application and attached all documents.

Submitted and in payment screen, again cancelled payment  

So the application is in last stage of payment :ranger: and tempting it says "Ready to Submit" When I submit after pay, it says it will send it to Australian Govt and payment is not reversal even if I change my mind later lol. 

I am absolutely not worried about payment, but this decision is a big decision, I really don't get guts to give up my citizenship in a way, I am afraid. Very confused:ranger:


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## PrettyIsotonic (Nov 30, 2016)

Cartisol said:


> Thank you very much; have filled up the application and attached all documents.
> 
> Submitted and in payment screen, again cancelled payment
> 
> ...


It is deeply personal to most so that's completely normal  

Are you aware of OCI (overseas citizen of India) and PIO (person of Indian origin)? Just in case you haven't heard of them.


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## Cartisol (Oct 5, 2012)

PrettyIsotonic said:


> It is deeply personal to most so that's completely normal
> 
> Are you aware of OCI (overseas citizen of India) and PIO (person of Indian origin)? Just in case you haven't heard of them.


Thank you for the words PrettyIsotonic 

I am really patriotic, looking at my ancestral struggles, values, deep cultures that is induced into me etc, so many of these are strongly inculcated onto me.

All my uni mates from India all are citizens just they took it without any of these thoughts or worrying too much  

Yes, my friend also said the same this morning that it passes with time, all my confusions will end soon and so few friends of mine said not to worry. 

:ranger:


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## Cartisol (Oct 5, 2012)

PrettyIsotonic said:


> It is deeply personal to most so that's completely normal
> 
> Are you aware of OCI (overseas citizen of India) and PIO (person of Indian origin)? Just in case you haven't heard of them.


Yes, I am aware of OCI and PIO and some even told me that I can get my Indian citizenship back after applying for it again and wait for 5-7 years (Giving out Australian Citizenship ) if required in the future. Still, I am a bit restless with all these decisions :juggle::ranger:


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## kiwifruit (Dec 21, 2012)

I understand that it's a hard choice. My girlfriend's country of birth allows dual citizenship so she won't have to give up her current passport. I don't think she would have applied for Australian citizenship otherwise. I know there is no way I would renounce being Dutch.

However, if you have come this far it might be worth completing the payment. You can withdraw your application at any time before sitting the test and that will take quite a few months. Besides, you need to consider what would happen if the new Citizenship bill gets passed in Parliament. If they increase the minimum requirements to 4 years as a permanent resident, would you be affected? Would you be ok with the new English test? Do you have a way to prove that you have integrated into your community?

If the new rules mean that you would not be eligible to apply for citizenship for several more years or it would be hard to meet the new requirements it might be worth applying now.


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## Cartisol (Oct 5, 2012)

kiwifruit said:


> I understand that it's a hard choice. My girlfriend's country of birth allows dual citizenship so she won't have to give up her current passport. I don't think she would have applied for Australian citizenship otherwise. I know there is no way I would renounce being Dutch.
> 
> However, if you have come this far it might be worth completing the payment. You can withdraw your application at any time before sitting the test and that will take quite a few months. Besides, you need to consider what would happen if the new Citizenship bill gets passed in Parliament. If they increase the minimum requirements to 4 years as a permanent resident, would you be affected? Would you be ok with the new English test? Do you have a way to prove that you have integrated into your community?
> 
> If the new rules mean that you would not be eligible to apply for citizenship for several more years or it would be hard to meet the new requirements it might be worth applying now.


Great views and yes, I agree.

Well I have *physically completed 4 years in Australia as a PR* with only far less than a month away. So the new rule will never affect me in anyway. Secondly, I had scored great IELTS score 7.5 and or 8 in each modules (Toughest one in those days, 5-6 years ago unlike the various options these days), so the English test will never bother me either, as even if they introduce, they would expect only 5-6 band which is nothing for me. 

The third point you mentioned is something I was thinking how would I prove, but I already thought of going and participating in Red Cross Blood donor etc; I haven't yet though. But I do participate in cancer council walk etc. 

My worry as you were highlighting is, only if they stop citizenship  Then it is a worry for me. :confused2: Or even make the RRV a bit stricter would worry me, but I can get the RRV within 2-3 days now if I apply as I lived continuously for 4 years now. (Previously before 4 years, I was on work permit for few months).

I had been discussing pros and cons with many of my friends, and those who knew me personally suggest me not to apply citizenship unless I am committed to live here, and I am single, would be marrying in a year or two, so some say it might be worth to first get married and make these decisions. Given I am single, I am also open for new opportunities overseas like USA etc, happy to travel everywhere until I get married  

The extent it tempts me to hit the Submit button in the website for my Citizenship application, the same extent I am afraid to apply either, don't feel the hearty comfortness and to lose our (ethnic) citizenship. 

Like in your GF case, if it was dual, I would have hit the button the next second I was eligible on. All my uni mates from India who came here similar time of me are already citizens, they didn't think too much haha and most of them are married now  :ranger:


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## PrettyIsotonic (Nov 30, 2016)

I can really empathise with you two. I already had to renounce one citizenship to acquire my current one, given I was however a minor and eventually it wasn't a hard choice as I had 'naturalised' in every sense of the word. I did see though many of the considerations you are sharing playing out through my own parents. 

Personally I envision myself being a long-term PR in Australia - the only benefit of acquiring citizenship for me is the ability to work in the Federal government and over time access to higher levels of security clearance. I fear I am too far behind the curve however to professionally make a dent in the APS. 

If Singapore did allow dual citizenship however, I would like take up Aussie citizenship in a jiffy. 

Like you Cortisol, my missus and I are keen on Australia but also happy to bounce around over the next decade wherever exciting opportunities crop up. 

Having said that.. The idea of being a global citizen is also appealing haha. You know, the whole notion of citizenship is a social construct and all that


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## Cartisol (Oct 5, 2012)

PrettyIsotonic said:


> I can really empathise with you two. I already had to renounce one citizenship to acquire my current one, given I was however a minor and eventually it wasn't a hard choice as I had 'naturalised' in every sense of the word. I did see though many of the considerations you are sharing playing out through my own parents.
> 
> Personally I envision myself being a long-term PR in Australia - the only benefit of acquiring citizenship for me is the ability to work in the Federal government and over time access to higher levels of security clearance. I fear I am too far behind the curve however to professionally make a dent in the APS.
> 
> ...


*The idea of being a global citizen is also appealing haha* 

Good one...today my friend said getting USA citizenship is the best as its land of opportunity considering future job prospects here in Australia as its extremely small market which runs on 4 banks and few Telecommunication firms,he said.


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## NB (Mar 29, 2017)

Cartisol said:


> *The idea of being a global citizen is also appealing haha*
> 
> Good one...today my friend said getting USA citizenship is the best as its land of opportunity considering future job prospects here in Australia as its extremely small market which runs on 4 banks and few Telecommunication firms,he said.


With an Australian Citizenship, getting a USA working visa is very easy

My company is willing to pay all my Citizenship application charges and get it done through their company MARA agent, if I promise I will go to USA

Cheers


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## Cartisol (Oct 5, 2012)

newbienz said:


> With an Australian Citizenship, getting a USA working visa is very easy
> 
> My company is willing to pay all my Citizenship application charges and get it done through their company MARA agent, if I promise I will go to USA
> 
> Cheers


Yes, E3 is for an year only and again the company has to file the H1B. (Not sure).

Lucky you.


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## NB (Mar 29, 2017)

Cartisol said:


> Yes, E3 is for an year only and again the company has to file the H1B. (Not sure).
> 
> Lucky you.


I don’t feel lucky

I have lived in 5 countries in the last decade

I am not counting the countries I visited for work for short periods in the interim

You lose the charm of living in a new country after a couple of western countries 
All start looking alike

Resettling every couple of years becomes difficult 

That’s why I am not keen to take up the company offer, and rather do the citizenship application myself.
It’s childs play as compared to the 3 PR application I have done on my own 

Cheers


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## Cartisol (Oct 5, 2012)

newbienz said:


> I don’t feel lucky
> 
> I have lived in 5 countries in the last decade
> 
> ...



Well said, couldn't disagree. Great you've some great experience I didn't have.

I am still deciding if I hit the submit button. Hope god shows me the right path.

Night.


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## Cartisol (Oct 5, 2012)

*@All who have experienced this or know some concrete clarity on this:*

What are all the complications or challenges or rules that an ethnic Indian who acquired an overseas citizenship, in this case, Australia, would encounter if he wants to work back again in India for sometime? Especially in IT firms such as Infosys/TCS etc. 

Because, I have been hearing mixed response or to be honest no clarity from anyone as to what exactly the rules/laws would apply particularly around : 1. *Visa for WORKING* (Please note, I am well aware we can live and work in India still, but someone told me there could be a special work visa or permissions/laws). 2. Taxation laws for those work in TCS/ any such service companies or even product companies? (Like, do we pay high amount of tax being an Australian or overseas citizen working in India? ) I am just trying to understand situational based DOs and DO NOTs :confused2::juggle::ranger:


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## taniska (Jan 24, 2014)

Hi Guys, 

I have a query regarding the eligibility to apply for citizenship for my kid i.e. I am living in AUS for 4 years in PR(189) visa, but my wife and kid are living here for past 3 years only(they also in PR visa). So if I apply for citizenship for me now then can I include my Kid(9 year old) in the application or should I wait 1 more year to apply for my kid.

Many Thanks


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## kareemulla.shaik (Apr 29, 2015)

Can we update associated family details after getting Australian citizenship. I already got my citizenship however it appears like I miss understood the associated family question wrong and selected NO while filling my application. I want to include my siblings, could someone please advise. Appreciate all your help on this!!


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## NB (Mar 29, 2017)

kareemulla.shaik said:


> Can we update associated family details after getting Australian citizenship. I already got my citizenship however it appears like I miss understood the associated family question wrong and selected NO while filling my application. I want to include my siblings, could someone please advise. Appreciate all your help on this!!


If you have already got your citizenship, then your siblings will have to apply themselves 

Cheers


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