# How would I know I owe money to the NHS?



## squeakie (Nov 14, 2013)

Hello.

I am going to apply for a fiancee visa very soon and I was told that if I owe money to the NHS that my application could be refused. 

I had to state on the application that I had medical treatment during a visit to the UK because in Sept I was in the UK and got a chest infection. I went to my fiancee's doctor who had me register on form GMS3/99 and then he just prescribed to me some antibiotics. That's the only treatment I had. I never had to pay anything except for the antibiotics, but nothing to NHS or to the doctor and I never got any bill from them or anything.

The doctor says he wouldn't know if I owe them anything because he has no way of knowing if I saw any other doctors or had any other medical treatment other than with him.

Any advice? Thanks in advance.


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## Guest (Feb 4, 2014)

Youd be sent a bill I'm assuming. You'd give an adress to GP, hospital etc. If they find they need to bill you they would to the address you provided. Though you wouldnt pay for a GP visit anyway.


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## nyclon (Apr 3, 2011)

You need to contact the practice where you were treated and ask them for a bill. Push it if you have to. Explain to them that you're not entitled to free treatment on the NHS. The only treatment that isn't chargeable is emergency treatment administered in an A&E.


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## squeakie (Nov 14, 2013)

Hmm. Ok but what about what I read on this page which I just now found:

nhs.uk/NHSEngland/AboutNHSservices/uk-visitors/Pages/accessing-nhs-services.aspx

"You can also register as a temporary patient with a GP practice when you are in the area for more than 24 hours and less than three months. It is up to the GP practice to decide whether to accept new patients or not. Treatment will be free of charge."

Wouldn't this apply to me? I did register as a temporary patient and that registration was good for 3 months.


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## Guest (Feb 4, 2014)

I was under the impression that emergency care in GP was free too?


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## nyclon (Apr 3, 2011)

No. Visitor's are not entitled to free NHS treatment except for emergency treatment as explained above. What you have referenced refers to a UK citizen who may be temporarily in another area do to work commitments or similar.


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## squeakie (Nov 14, 2013)

I have to further question your statement.... the page and paragraph I was referencing was for visitors to England ... not UK citizens outside of the UK or in some other area. You can even see that on the title of the page.


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## nyclon (Apr 3, 2011)

No _shel. Only emergency treatment in an A&E and I think an urgent care centre is not chargeable.


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## nyclon (Apr 3, 2011)

squeakie said:


> I have to further question your statement.... the page and paragraph I was referencing was for visitors to England ... not UK citizens outside of the UK or in some other area. You can even see that on the title of the page.


Please read the UKBA website which clearly states that visitor's are not entitled to use the NHS:

Visitors are not allowed to enter or stay in the United Kingdom to receive free medical treatment from the NHS. Except for treatment given in a hospital's accident and emergency department, you will be charged for any treatment you receive. You should ensure that you have enough medical insurance to cover your stay.

You can find more information on the Department of Health website.




http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/visas-immigration/visiting/rightsandresponsibilities/health/

Additionally, doctor's surgeries are not immigration specialists. You were not entitled to register and you need to sort this out before you apply for a visa. UKBA really frown on outstanding NHS debt.


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## squeakie (Nov 14, 2013)

Ok. I have read that. Then why does the NHS contradict this on their website? 

*confused* 

FYI I did not come to the UK specifically for that treatment. I just happened to catch a cold when I was visiting and it turned into a chest infection which I needed antibiotics for.


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## squeakie (Nov 14, 2013)

I'm going to throw another piece of info into this situation which I did not think of before. As a resident of Germany, I have a valid European Health Insurance Card (EHIC). I do not recall if I showed this to the doctor or not, but could this be why I was never billed for anything? Maybe providing a copy of this card with my visa application would be a good idea?


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## Guest (Feb 4, 2014)

It doesnt contradict. If you read it, it is for UK residents who are from overseas. It says the NHS is a resident based system.

How does being a german resident get you UK healthcare if you are not an EU citizen?


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## squeakie (Nov 14, 2013)

I'm throwing my hands up until I can get more info from the doctor.

If in fact I was supposed to pay for the doctor's visit, then I simply do not understand why neither the doctor nor the NHS requested any payment from me whatsoever. If I never got billed for anything how am I supposed to prove I don't owe any money?


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## Guest (Feb 4, 2014)

You contact the practice and ask them for a letter, email or a short note even saying so.


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## nyclon (Apr 3, 2011)

squeakie said:


> I'm throwing my hands up until I can get more info from the doctor.
> 
> If in fact I was supposed to pay for the doctor's visit, then I simply do not understand why neither the doctor nor the NHS requested any payment from me whatsoever. If I never got billed for anything how am I supposed to prove I don't owe any money?


Because it's your responsibility as a visitor to the UK to understand your rights and responsibilities. As I said before, doctor's practices are not immigration specialists. They are set up to serve citizens and long term visa holders who are entitled to use the NHS without charge. As such, there will not generally be a system in place for billing. That's why you need to take responsibility and contact them and insist that you should be billed.


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## squeakie (Nov 14, 2013)

Ok, so I need to go to the doctor who said I do not need to pay and demand an invoice anyway?

I'm totally fine with paying if I have to... but how could the doctor let me walk out of their office without paying if I was supposed to? What kind of practice would not know the healthcare laws especially with regards to the NHS and different types of patients and treatments? 

And to add further to the confusion, my fiancee just told me he called NHS himself today and told them the situation - that I'm American, don't live in the UK, but registered for a couple of weeks as a temporary patient - and the NHS themselves confirmed that this was okay and that since I had registered, I didn't have to pay for the docs visit. If I did not register with the doctor, then I probably would have had to pay, but that is not the case. 

Why would they say this if what you are saying is true??

So now I need to take responsibility since what a doctor and what the NHS are saying to me must not be true? 

*banging head against the wall*


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## nyclon (Apr 3, 2011)

squeakie said:


> Ok, so I need to go to the doctor who said I do not need to pay and demand an invoice anyway?
> 
> I'm totally fine with paying if I have to... but how could the doctor let me walk out of their office without paying if I was supposed to? What kind of practice would not know the healthcare laws especially with regards to the NHS and different types of patients and treatments?
> 
> ...


As I have said NUMEROUS times, they are not immigration specialists. It's not their job to know immigration law. You never should have been registered in the 1st place. That was an error on their part. The UKBA website CLEARLY states that visitors are not entitled to use the services of the NHS EXCEPT for emergency treatment at an A&E.


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## Guest (Feb 4, 2014)

squeakie said:


> Ok, so I need to go to the doctor who said I do not need to pay and demand an invoice anyway?
> 
> I'm totally fine with paying if I have to... but how could the doctor let me walk out of their office without paying if I was supposed to? What kind of practice would not know the healthcare laws especially with regards to the NHS and different types of patients and treatments?
> 
> ...


 To think Government departments can coordinate, inform and work together is a mistake. We are the ones who should know apparently, same in Law. Ignorance of the aw is not a defence. 

No idea who & where in the NHS he phoned but its big, many departments from local pharmacists, GPs and Hospitals to large commissioning based offices. Most of the first group wouldn't have a clue on who should and should not pay and how to prove it. Most of the second you wouldn't get to speak to, bar a receptionist on the phone. 

The GP may not want to charge, may shoulder the cost and may give you a £0.00 bill which is then evidence you dont own anything. Even if they do bill it is not likely to be a huge amount.



TO ADD.... mentioning the law is not to cause offence. Its just the kind of stuff that pops in my head having worked within the legal system for years.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

I think there are some erroneous advice and statement here.
As overseas visitor you can go to a GP surgery for emergency treatment - such as being prescribed antibiotics for an infection. This is allowed, though it's at the discretion of the GP concerned. Most will be helpful unless totally stretched. 


> If you are a visitor to the UK or have temporary permission to live here (known as 'limited leave to remain'), you may be able to register with a GP in your area and receive free treatment. The GP can decide whether or not to register you.


UK Border Agency | Healthcare


Also non-EU citizens living in an EU state can sometimes be eligible for EHIC, esp if they are working or married to a citizen. A few EU states don't accept EHIC held by non-EEA citizens, but UK isn't among them.


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## Guest (Feb 5, 2014)

Is a tourist visa or visa waiver limited leave to remain then? 

Though I still thought a visit to a GP antibiotics was allowed anyway! Probably from posts I've seen from you joppa.


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## squeakie (Nov 14, 2013)

Joppa said:


> I think there are some erroneous advice and statement here.
> As overseas visitor you can go to a GP surgery for emergency treatment - such as being prescribed antibiotics for an infection. This is allowed, though it's at the discretion of the GP concerned. Most will be helpful unless totally stretched.
> 
> UK Border Agency | Healthcare



I find this very interesting and it goes along with the statement I quoted before from the NHS website. Any idea why then the UKBA also states on another page that visitors are NOT entitled free treatment (other than emergency)? Or was my visit actually considered "emergency" because I had an infection and needed antibiotics?


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## Guest (Feb 5, 2014)

Thats what I thought. A GP visit would only be made because you needed to see them, antibiotics or a prescription because you had run out of regular must be taken medicine. Both classed as a minor emergency. 

Where visiting for a dodgy knee to get referred to a consultant or physio is not. Though people do that apparently, fly home, then come back for appointments!!

But it all still refers to living in the UK or being given permission to live temporary which a tourist is not? Too confusing for me, obviously for the UKBA and NHS too hence the misinformation everywhere.


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