# Retirement in Spain



## TonyRalp

Hello,

I would like to ask for advice about moving to Spain. My wife and I are 75 years old and we want to buy a property in Spain and live near the beach, which areas do you recommend?

The lawyer we have has recommended Malaga, Marbella and Alicante. What do you think? She has told us that it is cheap and has a very good climate.

/SNIP/ We are trying to get the golden visa/SNIP/

Is there anything we should be aware of? Has anyone got this visa before?

Thanks and Regards!


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## trotter58

TonyRalp said:


> Hello,
> 
> I would like to ask for advice about moving to Spain. My wife and I are 75 years old and we want to buy a property in Spain and live near the beach, which areas do you recommend?
> 
> The lawyer we have has recommended Malaga, Marbella and Alicante. What do you think? She has told us that it is cheap and has a very good climate.
> 
> /SNIP/
> 
> Is there anything we should be aware of? Has anyone got this visa before?
> 
> Thanks and Regards!



Hi Tony, welcome to the forum.

If you're looking at the golden visa's on your attached link then you're obviously a person with relatively high wealth.

The only thing that I could advise is that if you are unsure of the area you would be happy in, why not rent for a few months in various area's that are recommended. Whilst doing so, I would look into the tax situation for full time, tax residency in Spain.

That said, which country are you moving from?


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## Barriej

TonyRalp said:


> Hello,
> 
> I would like to ask for advice about moving to Spain. My wife and I are 75 years old and we want to buy a property in Spain and live near the beach, which areas do you recommend?
> 
> The lawyer we have has recommended Malaga, Marbella and Alicante. What do you think? She has told us that it is cheap and has a very good climate.
> 
> /SNIP/
> 
> 
> Is there anything we should be aware of? Has anyone got this visa before?
> 
> Thanks and Regards!


Wow. First of Hi,

The areas specified by your lawyer is a bit diverse.

I would not rush anything and instead come over for 3 months to look at areas, you are retired, there is no rush I assume.
The last thing you want to be doing is just buying somewhere and hoping its going to be alright.
And with you spending €500,000 cheap doesn't come into it. Why waste that in the wrong area (OH you will have to add about 10% to that for the purchase tax)

Alicante is a big city, nothing like Malaga (although thats a city as well) and Marbs is a seaside holiday spot for Essex girls (sorry  my bad)
Or did the lawyer say the Alicante region, Malaga region as this means another thing.
Also the weather here in the Costa Blanca (Alicante area) is different to the further South in Malaga and Marbs..

Asking any of us here is asking for trouble.

*What do YOU want out of your move?
Do you want to live right on the beach?
Would you like a town thats busy all year?*
You should make a list of all the things you want and all the bits you don't and then you will have a clearer view

One other thing do you drive? If so you cannot exchange your driving licence now, but will have to take a Spanish driving test.
That of course would shape where you live.

So thats out of the way.
Me n the wife (late 50's) live in a little village 10km inland of Albir and 12km from Benidorm, we are about 300m above sea level, there is one restaurant close by but the nearest bar is just over 1km, shops 1.5km, supermarket 2.5km.
The weather varies, Jan this year saw temps as low as 4c (and most Spanish places don't have proper insulation or heating) Aug last year, we got up to 42c, and we were still paddling in the sea in Albir in October and it was 22c but cool at night.

Someone else will be along with details of where they live in a minute.

Good luck with your plans, Spain is great (once you get over the differences)


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## TonyRalp

Barriej said:


> Wow. First of Hi,
> 
> The areas specified by your lawyer is a bit diverse.
> 
> I would not rush anything and instead come over for 3 months to look at areas, you are retired, there is no rush I assume.
> The last thing you want to be doing is just buying somewhere and hoping its going to be alright.
> And with you spending €500,000 cheap doesn't come into it. Why waste that in the wrong area (OH you will have to add about 10% to that for the purchase tax)
> 
> Alicante is a big city, nothing like Malaga (although thats a city as well) and Marbs is a seaside holiday spot for Essex girls (sorry  my bad)
> Or did the lawyer say the Alicante region, Malaga region as this means another thing.
> Also the weather here in the Costa Blanca (Alicante area) is different to the further South in Malaga and Marbs..
> 
> Asking any of us here is asking for trouble.
> 
> *What do YOU want out of your move?
> Do you want to live right on the beach?
> Would you like a town thats busy all year?*
> You should make a list of all the things you want and all the bits you don't and then you will have a clearer view
> 
> One other thing do you drive? If so you cannot exchange your driving licence now, but will have to take a Spanish driving test.
> That of course would shape where you live.
> 
> So thats out of the way.
> Me n the wife (late 50's) live in a little village 10km inland of Albir and 12km from Benidorm, we are about 300m above sea level, there is one restaurant close by but the nearest bar is just over 1km, shops 1.5km, supermarket 2.5km.
> The weather varies, Jan this year saw temps as low as 4c (and most Spanish places don't have proper insulation or heating) Aug last year, we got up to 42c, and we were still paddling in the sea in Albir in October and it was 22c but cool at night.
> 
> Someone else will be along with details of where they live in a minute.
> 
> Good luck with your plans, Spain is great (once you get over the differences)


*Thank you very much for your comment! *

I will take into account what you have told me....
I have to get my driving license again? with my 75 years old I doubt that they will give me the driving license... it is an important point to look for a city with services nearby.


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## xabiaxica

TonyRalp said:


> *Thank you very much for your comment! *
> 
> I will take into account what you have told me....
> I have to get my driving license again? with my 75 years old I doubt that they will give me the driving license... it is an important point to look for a city with services nearby.


The Golden Visa isn't the only option.

You don't say where you're from, but take a look at this Visas (FAQ)


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## Amy123123

It doesn't sound like you know Spain very well so you should definitely spend some time here before deciding to commit to buying a house in an area you're not familiar with.

I certainly wouldn't be paying too much attention to your lawyer's recommendations (in terms of where to live, at least - hopefully you can trust them on the legal stuff!) Marbella is not cheap, and IMO is suited to a certain type of person. Malaga could mean the city or the region (the latter of which includes Marbella). If it's the region, that covers a huge variety of places. 

Even the city, which is where I live... if I was going to buy I'd want to spend time in a few neighbourhoods before deciding where.

And Alicante is (afaik) lovely, but has a slightly different climate to Malaga.


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## xicoalc

Amy123123 said:


> It doesn't sound like you know Spain very well so you should definitely spend some time here before deciding to commit to buying a house in an area you're not familiar with.
> 
> I certainly wouldn't be paying too much attention to your lawyer's recommendations (in terms of where to live, at least - hopefully you can trust them on the legal stuff!) Marbella is not cheap, and IMO is suited to a certain type of person. Malaga could mean the city or the region (the latter of which includes Marbella). If it's the region, that covers a huge variety of places.
> 
> Even the city, which is where I live... if I was going to buy I'd want to spend time in a few neighbourhoods before deciding where.
> 
> And Alicante is (afaik) lovely, but has a slightly different climate to Malaga.


I do agree... with this and other similar comments. Where to live depends on so much. Personal taste being the main thing! But much of Marbella would be very different to much of Alicante and for someone to tell you they are "cheap" is not saying a lot. I would say that you´ll pay more in marbella in general but again, depends on which area exactly and what you want. Do you want to be in a city/large town where you have train networks on hand and never need to walk far? Do you prefer a smaller town but still big enough to get everything done? A village (maybe not if you dont want to take a spanish driving test). Flat, House, Villa, Area full of expats or area full of spanish?

Which areas are you familiar with? Where have you spent most time and what did you like/dislike?

I think firstly you should travel for holidays, extended ones. See different areas. When you find some that you like then do trips all year round to get a feel for climate, how the tourism affects it in high season etc. 

Then, when the decision is made, i really would say that unless you are moving to an area you are very familiar with, rent first. You can move on to a new area if you want to. Only buy when you are totally convinced and have spent time there living all year round, using local services etc. Not only will you avoid the risk of buying then being stuck unable to sell, but house hunting whilst living somewhere is so much easier than from abroad. You can visit the house day, night, weekends, study the area, visit the bars, restaurants, shops, meet the locals before signing anything.

I moved to Spain after years of visiting various parts. I knew roughly where I wanted to be but I rented for a long time before I bought. This enabled me to live in one area, really get to know it, explore other areas, decide the exact location I wanted and the important things for me and then, eventually buy. When I had my criteria certain it took a good few years to find the right house that ticked all the boxes!


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## SteveG999

TonyRalp said:


> *Thank you very much for your comment! *
> 
> I will take into account what you have told me....
> I have to get my driving license again? with my 75 years old I doubt that they will give me the driving license... it is an important point to look for a city with services nearby.


I have read and understand that after June 2021 you cannot automatically just swap a UK driving licence for a Spanish one. You will have to sit a theory and Practical test. ( Appears the practical is with a Spanish instructor who may not speak English ). For some there might even be a requirement to have lessons, depending on the confidence level. Steve


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## xabiaxica

SteveG999 said:


> I have read and understand that after June 2021 you cannot automatically just swap a UK driving licence for a Spanish one. You will have to sit a theory and Practical test. *( Appears the practical is with a Spanish instructor who may not speak English )*. For some there might even be a requirement to have lessons, depending on the confidence level. Steve


Even if the examiner is able to speak some English, the exam will be all in Spanish.


It's only possible to swap a UK issued licence now if intent to do so was registered with the DGT before the end of 2020.


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## Barriej

SteveG999 said:


> I have read and understand that after June 2021 you cannot automatically just swap a UK driving licence for a Spanish one. You will have to sit a theory and Practical test. ( Appears the practical is with a Spanish instructor who may not speak English ). For some there might even be a requirement to have lessons, depending on the confidence level. Steve


The ability to swap licences stopped on 31st Dec as long as you had already applied.

The ruling is that anyone here from 1st Jan would have until june to arrange a test etc. New arrivals will be different and I would hope somewhere in the visa paperwork this would be explained.


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## xabiaxica

Barriej said:


> The ability to swap licences stopped on 31st Dec as long as you had already applied.
> 
> The ruling is that anyone here from 1st Jan would have until june to arrange a test etc. New arrivals will be different and I would hope somewhere in the visa paperwork this would be explained.


Almost.

People arriving to live here on or after Jan 1 2021 can drive on a UK issued licence for six months after arrival, but which time they have to have passed the Spanish test, or stop driving.

So anyone arriving in June, will have six months from then.


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## MataMata

Barriej said:


> I would hope somewhere in the visa paperwork this would be explained.


With zero connection between the two why would it?

Applying for a visa is one of the final steps in the chain of a planned move to Spain so things like that properly belong in any would be immigrants research, nowhere else.


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## SteveG999

xabiaxica said:


> Almost.
> 
> People arriving to live here on or after Jan 1 2021 can drive on a UK issued licence for six months after arrival, but which time they have to have passed the Spanish test, or stop driving.
> 
> So anyone arriving in June, will have six months from then.


Ok thanks. So what is the deal with people arriving after June 21 and indeed anytime thereafter? do they still get the 6 months buffer as you describe? Steve


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## xabiaxica

SteveG999 said:


> Ok thanks. So what is the deal with people arriving after June 21 and indeed anytime thereafter? do they still get the 6 months buffer as you describe? Steve


Yes. A driver with a licence from a country which doesn't have a 'swap' agreement has 6 months from their arrival in which to take (& pass) the driving test here.


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## Joppa

SteveG999 said:


> Ok thanks. So what is the deal with people arriving after June 21 and indeed anytime thereafter? do they still get the 6 months buffer as you describe? Steve


Yes, almost anyone from anywhere in the world can drive for 6 months on their native licence before they have to take Spanish driving test and get Spanish licence. Those with licence in non-alphabet script will need international driving permit.


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## SteveG999

Great. That makes perfect sense. Many thanks. S


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## kaipa

I think that the majority of Brits intending to live in Spain post Brexit will need to give up driving. Realistically, unless they modify the rules, an older citizen with less than A2 Spanish will simply not be capable of passing the practical ( unless it is done in English). You cant learn Spanish in anything under 3 years study minimum ( to achieve B1 level) . It's no good thinking that everything is possible etc reality bites. Basically you either continue driving but lying if stopped by showing only a passport and saying you are a tourist or you need to use taxis and public transport. Most immigrants face these problems when living in foreign countries and will have considered language years before moving. Brits need to wake up to what they have become thanks to Brexit


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## SteveG999

kaipa said:


> I think that the majority of Brits intending to live in Spain post Brexit will need to give up driving. Realistically, unless they modify the rules, an older citizen with less than A2 Spanish will simply not be capable of passing the practical ( unless it is done in English). You cant learn Spanish in anything under 3 years study minimum ( to achieve B1 level) . It's no good thinking that everything is possible etc reality bites. Basically you either continue driving but lying if stopped by showing only a passport and saying you are a tourist or you need to use taxis and public transport. Most immigrants face these problems when living in foreign countries and will have considered language years before moving. Brits need to wake up to what they have become thanks to Brexit


Wow that really is a significant issue. For those who decide they won't reach A2 level, they would probably consider giving up driving as you suggest. This would naturally impact where they might choose to finally settle down. Arguably miles from supermarkets etc etc would be an issue, thus perhaps the more rural properties that are for sale would possibly see less interest from Brits or other TCNs.....


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## Megsmum

Also PHI. Whilst it may be possible to get a reasonable cheapish policy paying full payment for meds could be challengin.
I came here 7 years ago in reasonable health, apart from Crohn’s. Covered for two years by the then S1 for early retirees. The. Started teaching so became Autónomo. The past six months I’ve been dealing with cancer... can happen to anyone at any time as can any other disease. This morning I jotted up the costs of my meds per month as they are until end of June. €365 per month. 
as Kaipa says, brits need to wake up to what every other immigrant faces when they move to another country as our American friends on here will tell them


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## kaipa

Megsmum points out something extremely salient: any of us can become seriously ill especially given that many are at or over retirement age
Healthcare is a major major issue. People dont realise how lucky they are when they have access to NHS. Whilst Spain is very good you can still face big problems. Autonomo payments are large and medicine are not always free. Plus in Spain if you are very ill you need a good support network. Even though I speak good Spanish I get quite nervous going to doctor as she is often stressed and talks really fast so sometimes I am not sure what she says. There is no way I would opt to live in Spain as I get older, I couldn't take the worry and anxiety of not being fully informed about a serious illness.


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## Megsmum

kaipa said:


> Megsmum points out something extremely salient: any of us can become seriously ill especially given that many are at or over retirement age
> Healthcare is a major major issue. People dont realise how lucky they are when they have access to NHS. Whilst Spain is very good you can still face big problems. Autonomo payments are large and medicine are not always free. Plus in Spain if you are very ill you need a good support network. Even though I speak good Spanish I get quite nervous going to doctor as she is often stressed and talks really fast so sometimes I am not sure what she says. There is no way I would opt to live in Spain as I get older, I couldn't take the worry and anxiety of not being fully informed about a serious illness.


im surprised at your last statemen. Throughout the last 7 months I’ve had no issues with the complexity of my cancer it being a rare one. I’ve found DRs who don’t speak English willing to make sure that I do understand , I early always do, and many p, including my oncologist speak exceKent English and I don’t live in an area with many foreigners at all. It’s given me more confidence that as I get older complex issues will not be a problem. Maybe my medical background helps, but even my husband, whose Spanish it more Spanglish copes well here. i wonder if others on the forum have similar fears?


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## Overandout

I am surprised too. Even though the Spanish welfare state is being erroded by the right at every opportunity, I would still rather be old and / or ill here than in the UK.

I think that doctors use words and terms that are difficult to understand all over the world, even to native speakers. Try reading their handwriting! Sometimes what we see as a language barrier is actually a technical ignorance and would be present in our own countries (talking about those who speak a reasonable Spanish of course).


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## kaipa

All I am saying is that often the nature of my exchange with the doctor is difficult to understand not on a super technical level but just the fact that I am not accustomed to that type of Spanish conversation. I dont feel particularly comfortable afterwards if I dont clearly understand things and I definitely dont wont to end up feeling like this when I am more reliant on healthcare. Each to their own I guess. A friend of mine whose father died in hospital received the last rights in Spanish I find that awfully sad.


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## RickES

xabiaxica said:


> Almost.
> 
> People arriving to live here on or after Jan 1 2021 can drive on a UK issued licence for six months after arrival, but which time they have to have passed the Spanish test, or stop driving.
> 
> So anyone arriving in June, will have six months from then.


Does this apply to people coming from the UK or to all non-EU countries?


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## xabiaxica

RickES said:


> Does this apply to people coming from the UK or to all non-EU countries?


All non-EU, including the UK, unless there is a 'swap' agreement in place. There are a few non-EU countries with agreements, but without checking the DGT website I can't remember which.


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## Megsmum

RickES said:


> Does this apply to people coming from the UK or to all non-EU countries?


My understanding is all non EU countries..IE 3rd countries which is what the UK is now. UK simply adopts rules as per other nationalities


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## RickES

xabiaxica said:


> All non-EU, including the UK, unless there is a 'swap' agreement in place. There are a few non-EU countries with agreements, but without checking the DGT website I can't remember which.


I'm coming from the US but didn't know that there was a 6 month window to allow driving while using my US license. If that's true, that would be very helpful to be able to ensure I'm comfortable on the road before taking the practical part of the exam. Thank you!


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## kaipa

It used to be the case that to do the practical you had to be registered with a school as only the schools could register you. It might have changed now and you can register direct but not sure.


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## RickES

kaipa said:


> It used to be the case that to do the practical you had to be registered with a school as only the schools could register you. It might have changed now and you can register direct but not sure.


I was working under the assumption that this is still true. I'm fine with it (new life, new set of rules!), but I am really happy to know that I will be able to get more time on the road in between lessons.


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## MataMata

Licence exchanges for non EU citizens are not a pan EU thing, every member state has it's own exchange agreements, with the various countries and it can be messy.

For Americans in France for instance it depends on which actual state their licence is from as some have exchange agreements with France while others don't. Without an agreement they can drive for up to 12 months before having to take a French test.

The EU wide situation for British licence holders is laid out on the government website so no guesswork or speculation is unnecessary.

Driving in the EU: UK licence holders living in the EU

The level of Spanish required for the test is pretty basic, it's not going to be a conversation!


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## kaipa

My ex who is fluent did the test she said she found it hard as the examiner spoke very formally but with an accent which was hard for her. You have to speak though you cant sit there mute- they will think you are on drugs or something!( ha ha ha)


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## Overandout

There was a revised law a few years back which eliminated the obligatory inscription in a homolgated driving school.


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## Lynn R

Megsmum said:


> im surprised at your last statemen. Throughout the last 7 months I’ve had no issues with the complexity of my cancer it being a rare one. I’ve found DRs who don’t speak English willing to make sure that I do understand , I early always do, and many p, including my oncologist speak exceKent English and I don’t live in an area with many foreigners at all. It’s given me more confidence that as I get older complex issues will not be a problem. Maybe my medical background helps, but even my husband, whose Spanish it more Spanglish copes well here. i wonder if others on the forum have similar fears?


I am surprised by Kaipa's comments too. I was diagnosed with endometrial cancer and operated on in the public health system in Spain in 2019. Absolutely no issue with understanding the doctors and nurses (none of the ones I've seen regarding that illness spoke English to me) but my local hospital does have a team of volunteer translators on hand (in normal circumstances, they are not there during the pandemic). The morning after my operation, one of them came to visit me in my room (I had not asked for this, but apparently the hospital gives them a list each day of all the foreign inpatients and they visit to see if any assistance is needed and whether the patient has any questions). Even though I didn't need it it was reassuring to know the service is there.

I've recently transferred my cardiology care from the private sector to the public health system and had my first consultation with a cardiologist at my local hospital on 10 March. I was seen 15 minutes ahead of my appointment time, and the cardiologist spoke perfect English (I didn't ask if he did, when I went in he just said "are you English?" and when I said yes he conducted the whole consultation in English. I was his office for a full hour (longer than any consultation I ever had in the private sector) and as well as an ECG done by the nurse, he carried out the most thorough echocardiogram I've ever had. Rushed, it certainly was not.

Something else I like about the Spanish system is that at the end of every consultation (either with GP or specialist) and hospital stay the patient is given a printed report with details of what was discussed, results of any tests carried out and confirmation of any drugs prescribed or additional tests ordered, the definitive diagnosis and future treatment plan. Or at least they are in Andalucia, I don't know if all regions do the same. This helps with understanding because I can read it carefully at home and look up any terms I may not be familiar with. 

I am very happy with the care I've had in the Spanish system for serious issues.


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## TonyRalp

Thank you very much for all the answers! I will go on holiday this summer and I will decide where to invest in the property to get the golden visa as I don't want to pay taxes in Spain. 

As for the driving license is a problem but I will see what I can do....


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## Barriej

TonyRalp said:


> Thank you very much for all the answers! I will go on holiday this summer and I will decide where to invest in the property to get the golden visa as I don't want to pay taxes in Spain.
> 
> As for the driving license is a problem but I will see what I can do....


The Golden visa route is quite interesting (although Id need to rob another couple of banks to get anywhere near it)  
But reading through this .









How to obtain a Golden Visa and a residence permit in Spain


Driven by the goal of attracting investments, the Government introduced a new legal framework to obtain a Golden Visa and a residence permit in Spain. The




www.libehomes.com





Unless Im wrong, the golden visa has to be renewed on a regular basis and never gives you the right to Residence (unlike those of use who, once registered for 5 years get permanent residence).
This also means that even once at retirement age you cannot use the S1 for free healthcare and must still continue to pay for private.
You also have to show the €26,400 in the bank if not working. This has to an annual deposit.
And, if you spend more than 183 days here you will still become tax resident anyway. So then you will be liable for tax here. (or have I read that completely wrong??) 
Or if your centre of activity is here (IE you and the wife live here permanently).

Seems to me the golden visa is only for those people who globetrot and don't wish to pay taxes anywhere but their country of origin (or Monaco etc), and that they will only come here for extended holidays.

If thats what you are intending to do, then welcome and you wont have to change the driving licence either, because you wont be resident, just a visitor. 

Or as Ive said have I got this wrong?


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## Max Rigger

Given the OPs age and that he has enough money to go for the Golden Visa I'd ask why? You can retire there so long as you have enough income and can prove it so why buy a house age 75 when for whatever reasons you may need to go back to the UK? Makes no sense (to me), just go and rent a really nice home certainly for a year before tying up money in a property that could take a long long time to sell; from what I've read its a buyers market not a sellers.


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## Barriej

Max Rigger said:


> Given the OPs age and that he has enough money to go for the Golden Visa I'd ask why? You can retire there so long as you have enough income and can prove it so why buy a house age 75 when for whatever reasons you may need to go back to the UK? Makes no sense (to me), just go and rent a really nice home certainly for a year before tying up money in a property that could take a long long time to sell; from what I've read its a buyers market not a sellers.


Would tend to agree, we moved last year and are only 58. But we already owned the flat.

Yep its a buyers market. But at that prices there is usually a few buyers. If there is another recession the value may drop which would also put paid to the OP having the Golden visa.

I know someone who has a house here, in the Uk, the Caribbean and Florida, they spend (well normally) most of the year in the warmer ones and a couple of months in the uk (because they aren't resident anywhere, but still use the NHS) They pay no tax anywhere, I think the money is somewhere else. 

But its up to the Op of course as to what they do. 

Id love to be in that boat (but knowing me it would be the Titanic)


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## Isobella

I have seen a lot of elderly buy unsuitable places without thinking it through. Nice to be in a quiet spot when younger and you have a couple of cars but maybe 5 years on one or both of them can't drive. Long journey to a hospital. Garden/land/steps they can't cope with. I am not keen on renting but I would if moving countries at 75. Max is correct.


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## Megsmum

Isobella said:


> I have seen a lot of elderly buy unsuitable places without thinking it through. Nice to be in a quiet spot when younger and you have a couple of cars but maybe 5 years on one or both of them can't drive. Long journey to a hospital. Garden/land/steps they can't cope with. I am not keen on renting but I would if moving countries at 75. Max is correct.


We are in a relatively quiet spot.. but future proofing as in.. it's important to remember that houses here don't sell like they do in the UK. Once in receipt of state pension and unable to drive we will rent and wait to sell property here which in reality could take a month or five years. All budgeted into our move and decisions


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## RickES

Barriej said:


> The Golden visa route is quite interesting (although Id need to rob another couple of banks to get anywhere near it)
> But reading through this .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How to obtain a Golden Visa and a residence permit in Spain
> 
> 
> Driven by the goal of attracting investments, the Government introduced a new legal framework to obtain a Golden Visa and a residence permit in Spain. The
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.libehomes.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unless Im wrong, the golden visa has to be renewed on a regular basis and never gives you the right to Residence (unlike those of use who, once registered for 5 years get permanent residence).
> This also means that even once at retirement age you cannot use the S1 for free healthcare and must still continue to pay for private.
> You also have to show the €26,400 in the bank if not working. This has to an annual deposit.
> And, if you spend more than 183 days here you will still become tax resident anyway. So then you will be liable for tax here. (or have I read that completely wrong??)
> Or if your centre of activity is here (IE you and the wife live here permanently).
> 
> Seems to me the golden visa is only for those people who globetrot and don't wish to pay taxes anywhere but their country of origin (or Monaco etc), and that they will only come here for extended holidays.
> 
> If thats what you are intending to do, then welcome and you wont have to change the driving licence either, because you wont be resident, just a visitor.
> 
> Or as Ive said have I got this wrong?


This all goes against everything I've read about the Golden Visa program. Spain Golden Visa - Invest in Spain and Get the Residence Permit

Specifically:

*Benefits of the Spain Golden Visa*
Spain is part of the European Union, which means Spanish residents can travel visa-free to all Schengen Zone countries for up to three months in a six month period, as can your family members. Other benefits include:

You do not have to live in Spain to renew the residence permit – but you can if you want to.
You can work and live in Spain legally.
You can bring your family members with you (spouse, children, and dependent parents)
You and your family members will have access to public services such as state health care and schooling.
And, maybe I'm wrong? There's so much unclear and conflicting info online it's hard to know what's correct, though everything I've linked here is in line with much of the info I've been able to find.


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## xabiaxica

RickES said:


> state health care


this bit... One requirement for the Golden Visa is private health insurance.


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## SteveG999

http://www.exteriores.gob.es/Consulados/LONDRES/en/Consulado/Documents/RIC-RIV-RVT-RPE-REP-REM%20ES-EN.pdf


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## RickES

xabiaxica said:


> this bit... One requirement for the Golden Visa is private health insurance.





SteveG999 said:


> http://www.exteriores.gob.es/Consulados/LONDRES/en/Consulado/Documents/RIC-RIV-RVT-RPE-REP-REM%20ES-EN.pdf


Does this mean that private health insurance is ONLY required for the first year (which is what the document SteveG999 seems to say) or "forever?" For my husband and I, the income and health insurance requirements are not a problem, but the question then becomes, is the only real benefit being able to work? Or have income and live in Spain?


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## xabiaxica

RickES said:


> Does this mean that private health insurance is ONLY required for the first year (which is what the document SteveG999 seems to say) or "forever?" For my husband and I, the income and health insurance requirements are not a problem, but the question then becomes, is the only real benefit being able to work? Or have income and live in Spain?


After the first year, visa holders can join the convenio especial - paid foraccess to state healthcare. 

As far as I understand it, the ability to work is pretty much the only difference with the entrepreneur visa


> VISA FOR ENTREPRENEURS This visa is aimed at investors with a business project intended to be carried out in Spain, that is deemed and proved to be of general interest, and at investors who are intending to enter and remain in Spain for a one-year period for the sole or primary purpose of making preliminary arrangements in order to be able to develop an enterprising activity.


Just as with the NLV, it is issued for a year & has to be renewed/reapplied for at the end of that year.
An entrepreneur visa carries the same financial requirements as for an EU citizen - plus of course the business plan, & an investment visa still carries the financial requirements that the Non-Luctrative visa does, plus the actual investment.
From here: http://www.exteriores.gob.es/Consulados/LONDRES/en/Consulado/Documents/RIC-RIV-RVT-RPE-REP-REM ES-EN.pdf


> 6. Financial means required to cover the living expenses and, where appropriate, those of their family members, for the period of residence in Spain, in accordance with the following amounts:  ENTREPRENEURS: for the support of the main applicant, monthly, 100 % IPREM (Indicador Público de Renta de Efectos Múltiples, 564,90 € in 2021 or its legal equivalent in foreign currency) and for family members; family unit of the holder and one regrouped person 150% IPREM and family unit of the holder and more than two people additional 50% IPREM for each family member.  INVESTORS: for the support of the main applicant, monthly, 400% IPREM and for family members 100% IPREM. The availability of sufficient financial means will be evidenced by the submission of original and stamped documents that verify the perception of a periodic and sufficient income or the holding of an estate that guarantees the perception of that income.


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## RickES

xabiaxica said:


> After the first year, visa holders can join the convenio especial - paid foraccess to state healthcare.
> 
> As far as I understand it, the ability to work is pretty much the only difference with the entrepreneur visa
> 
> 
> Just as with the NLV, it is issued for a year & has to be renewed/reapplied for at the end of that year.
> An entrepreneur visa carries the same financial requirements as for an EU citizen - plus of course the business plan, & an investment visa still carries the financial requirements that the Non-Luctrative visa does, plus the actual investment.
> From here: http://www.exteriores.gob.es/Consulados/LONDRES/en/Consulado/Documents/RIC-RIV-RVT-RPE-REP-REM ES-EN.pdf


I knew I sent my original post too soon.  I did know about the other requirements, and did also forget about the health insurance requirement for the first year. As always, these conversations help (me, at least) keep these requirements straight in my mind as the planning continues. 

Thanks xabaixica and SteveG999 for the input. Much appreciated.


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## MataMata

Still seems an expensive way of spending more than 90 days in 180!


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## RickES

MataMata said:


> Still seems an expensive way of spending more than 90 days in 180!


For sure! It works for me (granting that we can afford it) as we would LIKE to be able to invest in rental property and supplement our income. As I understand it, we would NOT be able to do this if we lived in Spain on an NLV.


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## SteveG999

Yes, no work for NLV holders..
Hence the name NON LUCRATIVE being not very, well lucrative 
I wish countries would just call them retirement visas. EVERYONE knows what that means.............


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## MataMata

So does 'non working' !


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## SteveG999




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## RickES

SteveG999 said:


> Yes, no work for NLV holders..
> Hence the name NON LUCRATIVE being not very, well lucrative
> I wish countries would just call them retirement visas. EVERYONE knows what that means.............


I understand the idea of not taking work from Spanish citizens, but I am not clear on the reasoning behind not being able to invest in rental property with an NLV. It seems like it's a monetary investment and potentially adding jobs and tax income to the economy. Not complaining, just curious to hear from people more knowledgeable about this than I am.


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## Alcalaina

kaipa said:


> All I am saying is that often the nature of my exchange with the doctor is difficult to understand not on a super technical level but just the fact that I am not accustomed to that type of Spanish conversation. I dont feel particularly comfortable afterwards if I dont clearly understand things and I definitely dont wont to end up feeling like this when I am more reliant on healthcare.


My friend feels the same way and now records conversations with her doctor on her phone so she can play it back later, with help from a native speaker if necessary.


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## conildlf

TonyRalp said:


> Hello,
> 
> I would like to ask for advice about moving to Spain. My wife and I are 75 years old and we want to buy a property in Spain and live near the beach, which areas do you recommend?
> 
> The lawyer we have has recommended Malaga, Marbella and Alicante. What do you think? She has told us that it is cheap and has a very good climate.


Area is going to come down to personal preference as all three areas have pros and cons depending on the person and exactly where in those areas.

I would say one would need to spend a *minimum *of one month in each, ideally 3-6 months in each before gathering the information necessary to make that determination.


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## TonyRalp

conildlf said:


> Area is going to come down to personal preference as all three areas have pros and cons depending on the person and exactly where in those areas.
> 
> I would say one would need to spend a *minimum *of one month in each, ideally 3-6 months in each before gathering the information necessary to make that determination.


yes you are absolutely right I will do that and later on I will do the golden visa Spain.


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## Alcalaina

conildlf said:


> I would say one would need to spend a *minimum *of one month in each, ideally 3-6 months in each before gathering the information necessary to make that determination.


And at different times of the year! Though Conil in winter is wonderful.


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## conildlf

Alcalaina said:


> And at different times of the year! Though Conil in winter is wonderful.


Great point.

If one could spend one month in the busiest season and one month in the slowest season, they would have a halfway decent idea of what its like to like there year round.


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## Keithtoon

Joppa said:


> Yes, almost anyone from anywhere in the world can drive for 6 months on their native licence before they have to take Spanish driving test and get Spanish licence. Those with licence in non-alphabet script will need international driving permit.


Hi Joppa,
Yes I understand after 6 months etc... But if one wished to purchase a "moped" after living in Spain for 6 months does the same principal apply will need to pass a test?


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## xabiaxica

Keithtoon said:


> Hi Joppa,
> Yes I understand after 6 months etc... But if one wished to purchase a "moped" after living in Spain for 6 months does the same principal apply will need to pass a test?


Yes, because in Spain a licence is required to ride a moped.


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## Scooby77

I'd recommend Fuengirola (in Malaga Province).


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## MataMata

Joppa said:


> Those with licence in non-alphabet script will need international driving permit.


As will those with a licence which does not bear a photo, i.e. an old paper UK licence.

A moto up to 125cc can be driven on a car group B licence.


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## Barriej

MataMata said:


> As will those with a licence which does not bear a photo, i.e. an old paper UK licence.
> 
> A moto up to 125cc can be driven on a car group B licence.


Only once you have held that licence for 3 years, before that you are restricted to engines below 50cc and a max speed below 45kph.

And Im assuming here that all swapped licences are not backdated to the date you passed your test in your home country but start from the date you swapped over (if Im wrong then Im wrong) Don't have mine yet to check as its still being processed.

Info here from N332.






What Types of Vehicles Can I Drive? | N332.es - Driving In Spain


If you look at the back of your driving licence you will see a list of vehicle categories determined by both a letter and a pictogram indicating the type of vehicle referred to. The license also displays dates next to those categories for which you are permitted to drive, in the columns headed...




n332.es


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## Joppa

Barriej said:


> And Im assuming here that all swapped licences are not backdated to the date you passed your test in your home country but start from the date you swapped over (if Im wrong then Im wrong) Don't have mine yet to check as its still being processed.


I have just swapped my UK licence for a Spanish one and on the back of the new licence, the vehicle categories start from the date I passed my UK test, many moons ago.


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## xicoalc

Joppa said:


> I have just swapped my UK licence for a Spanish one and on the back of the new licence, the vehicle categories start from the date I passed my UK test, many moons ago.


Mine is same even though it has caused me issues or queries once or twice with car insurance brokers because I passed my test at 17 but in spain it only recognises from 18. Although thats so many years ago now its hardly an issue!


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## MataMata

Barriej said:


> Only once you have held that licence for 3 years, before that you are restricted to engines below 50cc and a max speed below 45kph.


Didn't know that but it makes sense.

No personal experience but I wonder how insurance companies will view 'new Spanish drivers' even though they might have decades of accident free motoring in the past on a UK licence?


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## Barriej

MataMata said:


> Didn't know that but it makes sense.
> 
> No personal experience but I wonder how insurance companies will view 'new Spanish drivers' even though they might have decades of accident free motoring in the past on a UK licence?


My nice new shiny Spanish Driving licence turned up today, and yep it says when I passed my Uk test as the start date (thats good as loosing the full bike bit doesn't matter cause I can get a 125cc now)

So thought I would be a good boy and phoned Linda Direct to give them my new details only to be told 'it doesn't matter, we insured you without a copy of your Uk licence, you do realise its the car that has insurance here, not the driver?'

Basically you can insure a car even without a licence you just have to name the driver's on the policy (which I knew, as Im insured to drive the FIL car). 
Not too sure what would happen if you have an accident and the Police find out you don't have a licence. (but I can guess)


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## Bernard23

RickES said:


> This all goes against everything I've read about the Golden Visa program. Spain Golden Visa - Invest in Spain and Get the Residence Permit
> 
> Specifically:
> 
> *Benefits of the Spain Golden Visa*
> Spain is part of the European Union, which means Spanish residents can travel visa-free to all Schengen Zone countries for up to three months in a six month period, as can your family members. Other benefits include:
> 
> You do not have to live in Spain to renew the residence permit – but you can if you want to.
> You can work and live in Spain legally.
> You can bring your family members with you (spouse, children, and dependent parents)
> You and your family members will have access to public services such as state health care and schooling.
> And, maybe I'm wrong? There's so much unclear and conflicting info online it's hard to know what's correct, though everything I've linked here is in line with much of the info I've been able to find.


You're right, but i think you have forgotten a very interesting benefit from the Spain Golden Visa that I've readed here:

- After ten years, you are given the *option to apply for spanish citizenship*.

I think it's quite interesting to have the option of getting the spanish citizenship.


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## xabiaxica

Bernard23 said:


> You're right, but i think you have forgotten a very interesting benefit from the Spain Golden Visa that I've readed here:
> 
> - After ten years, you are given the *option to apply for spanish citizenship*.
> 
> I think it's quite interesting to have the option of getting the spanish citizenship.


That's the case for all foreign residents whether or not they need a visa to live here or what visa they hold if they do.

Nationals of some countries only have to wait a couple of years.
Some get the option after a year - by marriage to a Spanish national or by being born here.


Two exams must be passed, one for language & one for culture.


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## xicoalc

xabiaxica said:


> That's the case for all foreign residents whether or not they need a visa to live here or what visa they hold if they do.
> 
> Nationals of some countries only have to wait a couple of years.
> Some get the option after a year - by marriage to a Spanish national or by being born here.
> 
> 
> Two exams must be passed, one for language & one for culture.


I did the exams about 3 years ago when we were in the midst of uncertainty with Brexit (just incase). Finally when it became clear that we would get the nice TIE cards, that things would pretty much remain the same etc, I didn't make the change. 

It's something that I occasionally ponder doing still, especially for the FoM benefits. Do you know the validity time of the exams? I believe that the language one is valid forever. I mean it stands to logic although I took the minimum level for citizenship as it would be easy, but also ponder taking perhaps a C1 just to document my language, anyway thats irrelevant to my question. I
have a feeling the culture one expires (2 years?). Interesting to know if you or anyone knows this?


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## Overandout

xicoalc said:


> I did the exams about 3 years ago when we were in the midst of uncertainty with Brexit (just incase). Finally when it became clear that we would get the nice TIE cards, that things would pretty much remain the same etc, I didn't make the change.
> 
> It's something that I occasionally ponder doing still, especially for the FoM benefits. Do you know the validity time of the exams? I believe that the language one is valid forever. I mean it stands to logic although I took the minimum level for citizenship as it would be easy, but also ponder taking perhaps a C1 just to document my language, anyway thats irrelevant to my question. I
> have a feeling the culture one expires (2 years?). Interesting to know if you or anyone knows this?


CCSE test pass is valid for 4 years.


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## xicoalc

Overandout said:


> CCSE test pass is valid for 4 years.


Thanks for that. I was thinking 3 years. I did it in mid 2018 in time for Brexit so still have a year to go then. Thata grear news!


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