# Would you vote for abandonment by Brits of the EU?



## nunes (Dec 27, 2012)

would say that this is the single most important political question facing the expat community, the consequences that would face us all in terms of the benefits we might lose, the taxes that might rise, our democratic rights, and so forth.

Would you vote for abandonment by Brits of the EU?
What consequences do you think we face?
What of Scottish independence?
Is the EU really worth it to UK?
What do you think you would lose if UK went?
Is the Euro a "centralisation" too far?
Is the "Euro" the reason for the EU, and that those who do not want it not "true" members?
Has centralisation gone too far?
Should the EU be just a common single market?
Or should it have a "larger" programme?
What do you think of the EU's so-called "democratic" institutions or justice systems?
Should there really be freedom of movement of labour?
Are the Brits being "squeezed" or pushed out by the others?
Are you disillusioned with and by the EU, like most Brits back home?
Or have you simply abandoned the UK altogether as a hopelessly lost cause, and "gone native" in the EU itself?


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## canoeman (Mar 3, 2011)

Prefer immigrant to Expat whether I can register my vote will depend on whether and when any referendum takes place as my 15 year voting rights are nearly up.

I would vote to stay IN, god help the UK should any vote go the other way, it'll be isolated in no mans land.

Scotland if they want Independence fine, providing they also accept financial independence


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## nunes (Dec 27, 2012)

I think the UK should remain in the European Union, I believe that one of the fundamental mistakes was that the Union has moved too far to the east. The enlargement to 27 members was wrong, I think it should have been stopped in 15, and unless the other state or Switzerland wanted the genus ought to have been here.


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## canoeman (Mar 3, 2011)

Thing is that it's size makes it more viable, but getting every country to some sort of a level playing field so there's equality across the board, doubt that will ever happen didn't work with communism so very unlikely to work with National interests and identity at stake


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## nunes (Dec 27, 2012)

I forgot to mention but it is essential to recall that the UK has always been favorable to the enlargement of the European Union which led to a mischaracterization of this. Europe to the UK was always something abstract and the loss of their dominance to France and Germany for Europe was serious, we can not forget that the UK and France emerged from World War II, just as countries with winners domain in Europe, not good that now is just to send germany.


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## wink (Aug 23, 2011)

A quote take from a piece in Today's Algarve News, which to me seems a fair question......"What do those people in Britain who wish to see Britain ‘out of the EU’ actually seek? There is no clear vision from them but only negative criticism."


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## nunes (Dec 27, 2012)

I accept that Europe is not going well, but we are stronger together than apart, de-industrialization of Europe, Portugal is a good example was a historic mistake, we can not fight china and india when they do not meet any environmental standards, nor life their employees!


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## coati (Sep 12, 2012)

IMO should stay in, isolation will be pretty damaging.

I am concerned that the Neandertals with a vote will just say no for the hell of it, there are not many people who understand the implications of leaving, as I believe is the same situation in Scotland. Surely it makes better sense to all work together as the future for everyone is looking very challenging.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

For what its worth, I think that the threat at least could make the EU sort itself out, cos right now it doesnt work and needs some serious modification. Britain would be better off looking for allies in the far east, where the money is??? 

That said, its not a good idea for Britain to simply leave and become an enemy - it needs to have a "special" relationship" with Europe - like the common market all those years ago????

I'm no expert tho and quite frankly putting it to vote in Britain means that people who havent a clue are going to have a say, which isnt the right way of doing things. I'm all for democracy, but....?????

Jo xxx


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## Micksantacruz (Dec 1, 2012)

Im in the uk with a property in Portugal. My wife is Portuguese. If we leave the EU its going to cause all sorts of problems to Brits living in portugal and The Portuguese living in UK. All EU Laws and Rules will not apply. Even our EU Driving Licence will not be valid. Our goverment walks round in another world and then has the cheek to say they are doing it for the british public then if it goes tits up they can blame us. I am so anrgy with the UK goverment that I feel like packing my bags now selling all my furniture and moving to portugal tomorrow.


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## robc (Jul 17, 2008)

Hi, Rather than just pass my own comments over in a post I thought I would answer the OP questions as best as anyone can given the subjectivity we all apply to such situations.



nunes said:


> Would you vote for abandonment by Brits of the EU?Yes I would, there is no economic advantage for staying in, some would say there are disadvantages, that is as may be but on balance the situation for export would be the same as it currently is, UK trade with the ROW is where it is at and frankly, business free of burdensome legislation is something to strive for.
> 
> What consequences do you think we face? As immigrants in another country, no more or less then were one to move to a non eu country. There are those in the ex pat communities who want to have their cake and eat it so to speak, they may lose out but being contentious.......so what?
> 
> ...


I abandoned the UK as soon as it lost the status or GREAT Britain

I point out these are my opinions and views.......we are all entitled to them as we all live in a democratic free society and we would do well to not only remember that, but also the sacrifices made in the past, the present and sadly in the future, by those who believe in defending these freedoms.


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## Ingles (Feb 2, 2009)

Or have you simply abandoned the UK altogether as a hopelessly lost cause, and "gone native" in the Portugal itself?[/QUOTE]

As above :clap2:


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## robc (Jul 17, 2008)

Ingles said:


> Or have you simply abandoned the UK altogether as a hopelessly lost cause, and "gone native" in the Portugal itself?


As above :clap2:[/QUOTE]


Probably.....now can I have some cozido


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## Ingles (Feb 2, 2009)

robc said:


> As above :clap2:



Probably.....now can I have some cozido á Portuguesa 

[/QUOTE]

certamente senhor :hungry:


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## sun lover (Jun 21, 2010)

I think it would be a big mistake if the UK voted to leave the EU and agree that most people in the UK do not know the pros and cons about the EU and the media tell you what they want you to hear not always the truth. 
If they did leave I did read in another thread that it would not really effect British abroad as there are other treaties out side of the EU that give freedom of movement with most countries that cover living and driving in another European country. 
It would be interesting If it happened, I do not think the vote will happen as I do not think Cameron will be voted back in as he is making too many enemys in the UK let alone in the EU.


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## canoeman (Mar 3, 2011)

Our current rights for freedom of movement within EU working, studying, living or driving are all because the UK is a member of EU, yes historically UK has had some special agreements with other European countries but I believe if UK was foolish enough to leave rather than negotiate for change from within then there would be a backlash and our present freedom of movement would not be as easy with the real danger of obstacles or a far more rigid approach to working, studying, living or driving


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## sun lover (Jun 21, 2010)

Freedom of movement might be restricted but if the Uk leave wouldnt the eeu treaty cover living or working abroad? If UK did make that silly mistake and leave the EU it would take years and i believe they would be like Norway and have an agreement for free trade and movement abroad so the upset would be minimal, if not where would we stand while countries sort out how to deal with all the expats?


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## canoeman (Mar 3, 2011)

That's the conundrum but the major difference is Norway was never a member of EU but have an agreement, but would the EU treat or want to treat the UK the same? personally I'd doubt it with certain countries more than happy to not have any agreements with UK and more than happy to take the trade opportunities that would bring.


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## oronero (Aug 24, 2012)

I am not sure that Norway have a tax-free right to trade with Europe, I have to send Customs declarations for items that I sell to Norwegians.

Likewise expect a bill from HMRC if you buy anything from Norway!


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## robc (Jul 17, 2008)

canoeman said:


> That's the conundrum but the major difference is Norway was never a member of EU but have an agreement, but would the EU treat or want to treat the UK the same? personally I'd doubt it........................................


I would agree, the EU will be very reluctant to give up the £53 million put in per day by the UK Taxpayer. 
Sure the Eurozone Zealots will say........."ahhhh but the UK gets a lot of it back"........which is true........trouble is the money is then allocated to EU approved projects only and not allowed to be allocated at a local level.

As an aside, I see that the budget negotiations are nearing completion and one of the areas "ringfenced" is CAP which accounts for 70% of the total EU Budget.

70% !!!!!!! to keep inefficient farmers viable..................wow that is some amount of money

Rob


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## travelling-man (Jun 17, 2011)

I can understand why a lot of people who live in the UK want out of the EU but personally, I think I'd be satisfied with the UK staying in but without the HRA and will smaller contributions.

If they did pull out, I'd try to stay in PT because I sure as hell wouldn't want to go back to live in the toilet the UK has become.


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## Waterdog (Oct 24, 2011)

As a Brit who loves Portugal I will answer the question, "Would you vote for the abandonment by Brits of the EU"? YES.

Edward Heath conned the UK into the Common Market which morphed into the EU.

The con continues, the UK needs to start again & re-negotiate a deal which doesn't prop up the EU CAP or all other vested interests.

If the EU doesn't like it we will have to go it alone.

We have been there before so possible another Finest Hour?


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## canoeman (Mar 3, 2011)

You can't re-negotiate from outside, when we where their before UK especially, Europe and the World was a far different place.
Maybe yesterdays small victory is the start of the EU becoming servants of the members rather than this autonomous body it's developing into.


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