# Fiance Sponsor Changes UK Visa



## valeskagert (May 23, 2012)

Hello I am new on here and was just hoping someone could give me some fiance and marriage visa advice for the UK. I just found out about the possible sponsor increase to over £25,000 a year starting in June. Is there any new information on whether this change is going to happen? All the news articles are from March and April. My boyfriend receives public funds for disability and I am a student who doesn't have much money, so if they change the rules we cannot marry and settle there and he cannot come and live in the US because of his needing support. I will have a good amount of savings when I come over and plan on finishing up my schooling there. If we rush the fiance visa through, or get married in the US, could we still be denied the marriage settlement visa if these changes go through? I am open to hiring a company to help with paperwork and rush the application through, but I am not sure in the US who I should go to?


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## WestCoastCanadianGirl (Mar 17, 2012)

If you have the resources to apply (USD ~1400$) for a UKBA fiancé(e) visa _now_ (or by the end of the month), I'd do so. That way, you'd be assured of the fact that your application would be in process _before_ the changes take place and thus exempt from changes that might be made effective 01 June.

If you apply by 30 May, you would have until the 28th of August to arrive in the UK (well after the end of final exams for the summer semester at most North American colleges and universities)... you would then have a further 180 days after that (i.e. later part of February 2013) to get married.

Good luck to you at school this summer and to you both with your visa application.


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## valeskagert (May 23, 2012)

Thanks for your reply! If we got approved for a fiance visa and the changes went into effect before we could apply for the marriage visa, would we still be exempt? Could we get an ok for the fiance visa now, but be declined in a few months for the marriage because of the new rules?


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## WestCoastCanadianGirl (Mar 17, 2012)

Once you get your fiancé(e) visa, you don't need a visa to actually get married in the UK, but there are rules in regards to what you must do in order to get permission at the local level to have your wedding (these are more in regards to residency requirements and registering your intent to marry).... just either have a Church of England wedding (a.k.a. Episcopal Church in the USA and Anglican Church in Canada) who will take care of the administrative details for you or self-register to have a Civil Ceremony before your visa expires and you're set.

Once you get married, you would then need to apply for a Further Leave to Remain visa (commonly referred to as FLR(M) on this site and on the 'net in general) before your Fiancé(e) visa expires. Once that is granted, you are allowed to stay in the UK for a predetermined amount of time before applying for Indefinite Leave to Remain (ILR) which would then lead the way to your applying for citizenship. You must also pass the Life in the UK test before you are granted ILR/citizenship.

Under _current_ legislation, your FLR(M) period would be 2 years (because you are coming over to marry a UK national) then you could apply for ILR.

Under _proposed_ legislation, in addition to the increased minimum income level, the FLR(M) period would be extended to 5 years (like every other ILR applicant) from the current 2 years. 

Please keep in mind that these changes are only _*rumour*_* only* and have had _no_ official announcements made in regards to the specifics of the changes or the proposed start date, thus my recommendation that you apply by the end of the month, just to be on the safe side.

In regards to the actual application process, there are numerous threads about these topics in this forum. If you can't find the info that you are looking for, please feel free to post a question... the regulars here (specifically Joppa, 2farapart, and anAmericanInScotland, among others) are a collective wealth of information and a good number of us (myself included) are going through the motions of applying for the Fiancé(e)/Spousal visas, so we can understand what you're going through.

Good luck and enjoy the ride!


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## WestCoastCanadianGirl (Mar 17, 2012)

Just wanted to add that if you applied by the end of May and got your fiancée visa, _you would be_ subject to any proposed increase in the the change in length of the FLR(M) visa (i.e. you would have to wait however many years the new rules say and you would not be allowed to just wait the 2 years that are currently on the books), as you would not have been eligible to apply for the FLR(M) before the changes take place.

You would still be exempt from the changes in the minimum annual income level.


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## 2farapart (Aug 18, 2011)

Unfortunately, all we have right now are recommendations leaked in a letter to a newspaper. We don't yet know which of the recommendations (and to what degree) the UKBA will adopt and so all we can really do is wait (which is hard when you're trying to plan your life around them).



WestCoastCanadianGirl said:


> If you have the resources to apply (USD ~1400$) for a UKBA fiancé(e) visa _now_ (or by the end of the month), I'd do so. That way, you'd be assured of the fact that your application would be in process _before_ the changes take place and thus exempt from changes that might be made effective 01 June.


There is unfortunately no guarantee that anyone will be exempt - including those of us with FLR or Spouse visas already. There has been precedent in the past where the UKBA did indeed apply changes backwards, but there's nothing to say they will this time - if the changes are implemented at all. We can hope we're excluded though!


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

2farapart said:


> Unfortunately, all we have right now are recommendations leaked in a letter to a newspaper. We don't yet know which of the recommendations (and to what degree) the UKBA will adopt and so all we can really do is wait (which is hard when you're trying to plan your life around them).
> 
> 
> 
> There is unfortunately no guarantee that anyone will be exempt - including those of us with FLR or Spouse visas already. There has been precedent in the past where the UKBA did indeed apply changes backwards, but there's nothing to say they will this time - if the changes are implemented at all. We can hope we're excluded though!


This is all very true.
The only sure thing is those who are *already *on ILR or have gained British citizenship will be unaffected. Everyone else has the potential of being caught up in the changes, to a varying degree, depending on the specifics. Under law, the fact that you were granted a 2-year probationary period doesn't mean it cannot be lengthened to 5 years, for example, while you are on it. This has happened in the past (e.g. when qualifying period for ancestry visa holders were extended from 4 to 5 years) and resulted in those affected having to extend their visa (leave) before eligible for settlement. And there is a warning on UKBA site that the rules are subject to change, and the rules current at the time of application will be used. Any exception or concession, or transitional arrangement will be specifically announced. I'd have thought that in view of the urgency to reduce immigration substantially by 2015 to meet electoral pledge, the government is less likely to make too many exceptions and would want as many people as possible to be brought within the new rules.


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## WestCoastCanadianGirl (Mar 17, 2012)

2farapart said:


> Unfortunately, all we have right now are recommendations leaked in a letter to a newspaper. We don't yet know which of the recommendations (and to what degree) the UKBA will adopt and so all we can really do is wait (which is hard when you're trying to plan your life around them).
> 
> 
> 
> There is unfortunately no guarantee that anyone will be exempt - including those of us with FLR or Spouse visas already. There has been precedent in the past where the UKBA did indeed apply changes backwards, but there's nothing to say they will this time - if the changes are implemented at all. We can hope we're excluded though!


True that... I still think that it would be worth OP's time and effort to get her paperwork in now (i.e. by the end of May), on the chance that they _don't_ make the changes retroactive... it would be a shame if she didn't at least try to get it all in before the changes are announced and the changes (whenever they end up coming effective) end up not being retroactive to May 1st (just arbitrarily pulling a date out of the air here). 

Here's hoping that the changes are a long time in coming and not very broadly sweeping.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

WestCoastCanadianGirl said:


> Here's hoping that the changes are a long time in coming and not very broadly sweeping.


The government is running out of options to make a substantial dent in the stubbornly high net immigration, of nearly 250,000. Family migration route is one of the last throws of the dice, and I suspect they hope to catch as many people as possible in the new, much stricter, restrictive rules. That's how I look at it.


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## AnAmericanInScotland (Feb 8, 2012)

WestCoastCanadianGirl said:


> If you apply by 30 May, you would have until the 28th of August to arrive in the UK (well after the end of final exams for the summer semester at most North American colleges and universities)... you would then have a further 180 days after that (i.e. later part of February 2013) to get married.


Just want to clear this up-the visa, if issued, will have a specific validity period of six months from date to date. The clock begins ticking on the 'valid from' and expires at 'valid to'.

The visa holder's clock does not begin ticking upon arrival, so the OP will need to pay close attention to the dates on his/her visa-he/she will not have 180 days upon arrival, he/she will have only to the expiry date on the visa. 

*@Valeskagart*-if your visa is dated as valid from 28th August, it will expire exactly six months later. 

You can arrive to the UK at any time during the six months, marry, and apply for the FLR(M). But you don't want to cut things too close when it comes to the application for the FLR(M) because it can take a while to process that. 

Several options are available for making that application and the best one is the more expensive one-day service because obviously one-day means you should have a determination on the same day. (Depends on the complexity of your application, check the various FLR(M) threads and I highly recommend the ones by 2FarApart). The only trouble is booking the appointment-you want to book your application ASAP after the wedding/civil partnership because sometimes appointment dates can be as much as a month out from the day you book.


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## WestCoastCanadianGirl (Mar 17, 2012)

AnAmericanInScotland said:


> Just want to clear this up-the visa, if issued, will have a specific validity period of six months from date to date. The clock begins ticking on the 'valid from' and expires at 'valid to'.
> 
> The visa holder's clock does not begin ticking upon arrival, so the OP will need to pay close attention to the dates on his/her visa-he/she will not have 180 days upon arrival, he/she will have only to the expiry date on the visa.
> 
> ...


I was going on the assumption that OP applies by the end of May, arrives in the UK at the end of August and gets married by the end of February... that gives a 90 day window to (hopefully) beat the rule change and 180 day window to get married.


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## AnAmericanInScotland (Feb 8, 2012)

WestCoastCanadianGirl said:


> I stand corrected... thank you!


Don'cha love this place-whilst typing all that I was thinking 'And if I've got it wrong, someone will come along and correct me'; it's fantastic how we can depend on the others!


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## WestCoastCanadianGirl (Mar 17, 2012)

AnAmericanInScotland said:


> Don'cha love this place-whilst typing all that I was thinking 'And if I've got it wrong, someone will come along and correct me'; it's fantastic how we can depend on the others!


You are all too fast for me, especially when I am posting from work near end of shift!!! I am addicted to this place so much that not only do I have this place set up as one of my home pages on my laptop, I'm typing my reply on my phone in the carpark at work... if that doesn't show loyalty to the cause (of getting my visa and wanting to make a positive contribution to British society (ie do things the British way), I don't know what will.

As much as I changed my last post, I do not attempt to deny that I still very much stand corrected.


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## 2farapart (Aug 18, 2011)

Joppa said:


> The government is running out of options to make a substantial dent in the stubbornly high net immigration, of nearly 250,000. Family migration route is one of the last throws of the dice, and I suspect they hope to catch as many people as possible in the new, much stricter, restrictive rules. That's how I look at it.


Yes, and with a UK average salary still substantially less than the speculated new threshold, it's easy to see how they'll achieve it if they put all onus on the sponsoring partner to earn the threshold. Given the enormous amount of pressure falling on the current government to actually deliver on at least _something_ and their failure thus far to stem immigration by previous changes, I too think it more likely they would apply any new changes across the board to everyone not already on ILR or beyond - and it would be perceived as a reasonable (and potentially popular) change by the public and so won't put the government in bad light.


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## 2farapart (Aug 18, 2011)

WestCoastCanadianGirl said:


> You are all too fast for me, especially when I am posting from work near end of shift!!! I am addicted to this place so much that not only do I have this place set up as one of my home pages on my laptop, I'm typing my reply on my phone in the carpark at work... if that doesn't show loyalty to the cause (of getting my visa and wanting to make a positive contribution to British society (ie do things the British way), I don't know what will.
> 
> As much as I changed my last post, I do not attempt to deny that I still very much stand corrected.


Immigration is a minefield. I think I know about 0.2% of it now based only on mine and my partner's bit of experience, and so I'm frequently corrected by people more knowledgeable too. At the end of the day, I'm just SO grateful for the help that we received that I too want to 'give back' to others going through the same.

And I'm rather glad when I'm corrected so I don't send people headlong into an incorrectly perceived situation.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

2farapart said:


> Yes, and with a UK average salary still substantially less than the speculated new threshold, it's easy to see how they'll achieve it if they put all onus on the sponsoring partner to earn the threshold.


Latest statistics from 2011 put average weekly gross UK pay as £499, which is almost £26,000 a year, very close to proposed income level. Of course because of income disparity, some people earn substantially more than that and some quite a bit less (in parts of Lancashire I live in, the average is more like £18,000 a year, but in London it's around £32,000) but the median average comes to around £500 before tax. UK citizens and others settled here are eligible for tax credits and benefit payments if their income is on or less than £15860 (a couple without children), which can sometimesbe be taken into account in working out maintenance requirement.


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## 2farapart (Aug 18, 2011)

And here it is - back in the headline news AGAIN today, BBC News - Migration to UK more than double government target 



> "The problem is that non-EU migrants are simply not leaving. It is time the Lib Dems understood the extent of public concern, including among 75% of their own supporters.
> 
> "The coalition must now take tough measures to reduce this unacceptable scale of immigration."


That comment relating to net migration (more people joining the UK than are leaving). I expect we'll hear announcements shortly.


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## AnAmericanInScotland (Feb 8, 2012)

2farapart said:


> And here it is - back in the headline news AGAIN today, BBC News - Migration to UK more than double government target
> 
> That comment relating to net migration (more people joining the UK than are leaving). I expect we'll hear announcements shortly.


Ooooooooooh, great catch!

The Guardian has it now too, The Telegraph not yet-haven't checked The Daily Mail Same story, pretty much, on The Guardian.

I thought it was especially interesting that the articles say the biggest numbers come from student visas, that the changes to student and worker visas are making a difference (student visa apps, are they really down 62% or did I read that wrong?!), yet the push is to reduce family migration route visas by 2/3rds. 

Both articles say the changes to family migration routes will be announced soon.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

2farapart said:


> That comment relating to net migration (more people joining the UK than are leaving).


Currently around 590,000 are entering UK annually to live and 340,000 leaving (emigrating), so net inflow of 250,000. The figure includes EU citizens, but the majority are from outside Europe, with a large number of students from China, Russia, India, South Korea etc.


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## valeskagert (May 23, 2012)

Thanks everyone for all your advice! My boyfriend and I are trying as fast as we can to get the visa application submitted, but as he needs to send documents over from the UK, I don't see how we can make a June 1st deadline. I'm dreading any upcoming announcements. I think putting £26,000 a year income completely on the sponsor is way too drastic! Many starting jobs even with degrees don't appear to pay that much. Teaching which is what my degree will be in, starts lower (although I am not an expert on "levels" of UK teaching qualification) and no one I know in the UK makes that much. These forums have been very helpful. My boyfriend and I are committed to being together, so we will work it out.


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## dr1 (Feb 6, 2012)

2farapart said:


> Yes, and with a UK average salary still substantially less than the speculated new threshold, it's easy to see how they'll achieve it if they put all onus on the sponsoring partner to earn the threshold. Given the enormous amount of pressure falling on the current government to actually deliver on at least _something_ and their failure thus far to stem immigration by previous changes, I too think it more likely they would apply any new changes across the board to everyone not already on ILR or beyond - and it would be perceived as a reasonable (and potentially popular) change by the public and so won't put the government in bad light.


I wrote to my MP last week and got his response by mail this morning. 

Directly quoting

"I understand that the Migration Advisory Committee's consultation is currently being considered and a decision will be made on this later in 2012. No decision as to the lower threshold has been made as yet"

So not quite sure what's going to be the outcome of all this income threshold. It's going to have a massive effect on breaking up families etc.


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## 2farapart (Aug 18, 2011)

dr1 said:


> I wrote to my MP last week and got his response by mail this morning.
> 
> Directly quoting
> 
> ...


Given other changes have already been tabled for 14 June (mention in UKBA policy already on their site for "from 14 June" for some visa changes such as amount of funds a student must have), it looks like the family settlement visa changes are going to be later. I imagine the crisis in Greece (and potential immigration from Greece) might have become a more immediate priority.


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## Zama (Apr 23, 2012)

2farapart said:


> Given other changes have already been tabled for 14 June (mention in UKBA policy already on their site for "from 14 June" for some visa changes such as amount of funds a student must have), it looks like the family settlement visa changes are going to be later. I imagine the crisis in Greece (and potential immigration from Greece) might have become a more immediate priority.


So, if I understood it correctly, they are not going to change family settlement visa rules in June 2012? I am currently rushing to apply for my fiance visa early in June just because I scored 6.5 in my IELTS examination, thought it would not be enough with the new requirements.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Zama said:


> So, if I understood it correctly, they are not going to change family settlement visa rules in June 2012? I am currently rushing to apply for my fiance visa early in June just because I scored 6.5 in my IELTS examination, thought it would not be enough with the new requirements.


Nobody knows. They can still announce tomorrow for all I know!


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## 2farapart (Aug 18, 2011)

Yes, anything that depends on beating those changes is best done as soon as you can.


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## AnAmericanInScotland (Feb 8, 2012)

Zama said:


> So, if I understood it correctly, they are not going to change family settlement visa rules in June 2012? I am currently rushing to apply for my fiance visa early in June just because I scored 6.5 in my IELTS examination, thought it would not be enough with the new requirements.


Joppa is right-they could announce changes tomorrow. It's probably a good idea to make the application just as soon as possible.

I'm thinking, like 2FarApart and others, that any changes could be a bit further out than we'd thought, but again, as Joppa writes above, they could announce changes any time now.


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## blibli46 (May 28, 2012)

Hello everybody. I am from Indonesia and I am working on my fiancee Visa to UK, I am bringing a long 2 dependants (my 2 kids), My fiance works in UK, but earns not much. has saving but not much (under 20,000 pounds). i work as accountant in chief for a manufacture company and I have been there for 20 years. He rents a house in UK but he own a property in other part of europe which he rent it out and has income from this. I am going to apply in June or July 2012. Any suggestions for me for a successful visa?


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## Zama (Apr 23, 2012)

AnAmericanInScotland said:


> Joppa is right-they could announce changes tomorrow. It's probably a good idea to make the application just as soon as possible.
> 
> I'm thinking, like 2FarApart and others, that any changes could be a bit further out than we'd thought, but again, as Joppa writes above, they could announce changes any time now.


Hi American in Scotland, thank you for advice again  
Yeah we will still apply, on the 1st of June possibly. waiting for my English certificate to arrive


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## 2farapart (Aug 18, 2011)

blibli46 said:


> Hello everybody. I am from Indonesia and I am working on my fiancee Visa to UK, I am bringing a long 2 dependants (my 2 kids), My fiance works in UK, but earns not much. has saving but not much (under 20,000 pounds). i work as accountant in chief for a manufacture company and I have been there for 20 years. He rents a house in UK but he own a property in other part of europe which he rent it out and has income from this. I am going to apply in June or July 2012. Any suggestions for me for a successful visa?


Given recent rejected cases here, one of the most important supporting documents you need is some kind of official paper permitting you to bring your children to the UK. It seems the UKBA is ultra-careful with applications for children and won't allow any application unless they are absolutely certain there is full and official consent from other parent/guardians.

Under current rules, you'll both need to provide evidence that your fiancée can support you and the children because you won't be permitted to work on a fiancée visa in any capacity. This can be a combination of savings from both of you, and your fiancée's income (Joppa or others here will be able to give you a better idea of the amounts - for one adult it's £111.45 per week after rent and council tax has peen paid, but there will be a sum for each child too). There are tough new rules being considered where there is a possibility that annual income for a couple with two children could be as much as £49,300 earned per year if they're brought in. However, nothing has been announced yet (it's still under discussion) so it's just something to be aware of.


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## blibli46 (May 28, 2012)

2farapart said:


> Given recent rejected cases here, one of the most important supporting documents you need is some kind of official paper permitting you to bring your children to the UK. It seems the UKBA is ultra-careful with applications for children and won't allow any application unless they are absolutely certain there is full and official consent from other parent/guardians.
> 
> Under current rules, you'll both need to provide evidence that your fiancée can support you and the children because you won't be permitted to work on a fiancée visa in any capacity. This can be a combination of savings from both of you, and your fiancée's income (Joppa or others here will be able to give you a better idea of the amounts - for one adult it's £111.45 per week after rent and council tax has peen paid, but there will be a sum for each child too). There are tough new rules being considered where there is a possibility that annual income for a couple with two children could be as much as £49,300 earned per year if they're brought in. However, nothing has been announced yet (it's still under discussion) so it's just something to be aware of.


I have the court decision that gives me full costody for the kids' upbringing, and my ex husband agrees to sign a letter of consent. My problem is I do not know what should be written in the consent and does he need to sign the consent in front of a notary public. Other question is about the sponsor income. Is it after or before tax? Oh, and my fiance has other income from his late wife private pension being paid to him. Will this pension still be paid when we are married? And will UKBA recognize this pension as his other income?


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## 2farapart (Aug 18, 2011)

I think your ex only needs to state that he is fully aware of and gives full consent to you moving the children permanently to the UK. To eliminate any chance of rejection, yes, ask him to have it notarised if possible.

Pensions have their own rules. Some state that a pension is only payable to a widow or widower in the event that they don't remarry, so your partner will probably need to investigate that. Under current rules, the UKBA will accept this as income (but we don't know yet whether this will be counted under new rules). The current weekly 'available income' of £111.45 per week (plus smaller extra sums for each child) are after tax. I do believe the new figures being discussed in the proposals are, however, before tax. The other issue we don't know about is that there has also been mention that only the UK spouse's income (not savings) can count towards the new figure, but this will also be subject to debate and discussion within government before announcement. 

It's all very uncertain right now. All we know for sure are the current rules and the fact that the UK government is under enormous pressure to stem the current net migration of 250,000 people coming into Britain to stay each year (iimigration is barely out of the news headlines now). We were anticipating announcements for tougher rules in June, but as that's only a few days away it's likely to be a bit later (but we don't know how much later, and what changes will be made for sure).


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## blibli46 (May 28, 2012)

@2farapart, your prompt answers are very useful and we appreciate it very much. Thank you.


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## 2farapart (Aug 18, 2011)

You're most welcome! Most of us here are either going through or have been through the same processes so we know what it's like to face daunting collections of documentation and non-refundable high fees! I just wish we had more certainty of the changes to come, so that people are better equipped for the decisions they're making.


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## 2farapart (Aug 18, 2011)

*blibli46: A word of warning since we discussed this!*

gkt in Zambia has just had her daughter's visa refused (http://www.expatforum.com/expats/br...t-daughters-refused-please-help-urgently.html). The reason given was:


> You have submitted a consent form and a consent letter from your biological father, the fact that your father has gone to the lengths of producing consent letters indicate to me that he takes interest in dealings of your upbringing. I note that the letters of consent state that your father see's you from time to time, which further indicates contact between you and your father. I note from your application form that you receive a monthly income from your father to support your school and groceries needs. As a result, I am not satisfied that you meet the requirement of paragraph 297(i)(e) of the UK immigration Rules HC395' So that is their decision.


However, I've also seen visas refused where the necessary papers and consent weren't provided. This is clearly a very precarious issue and I'm wondering whether it might be wise to consult an immigration advisor. Maybe Joppa or anyone who has successfully brought children over from a previous marriage might be able to advise on what they provided.


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## blibli46 (May 28, 2012)

2farapart said:


> *blibli46: A word of warning since we discussed this!*
> 
> gkt in Zambia has just had her daughter's visa refused (http://www.expatforum.com/expats/br...t-daughters-refused-please-help-urgently.html). The reason given was:
> 
> ...


thanks again for the info we are treading carefully


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

2farapart said:


> However, I've also seen visas refused where the necessary papers and consent weren't provided. This is clearly a very precarious issue and I'm wondering whether it might be wise to consult an immigration advisor. Maybe Joppa or anyone who has successfully brought children over from a previous marriage might be able to advise on what they provided.


Yes, it is a tricky issue and there doesn't seem to be a consistent policy. UKBA claim to take their legal responsibility over child welfare seriously, and this can mean that your application to bring your minor children is refused if they judge it not to be in the children's best interest. The only people who have been successful seem to be those whose absent partner has never been involved in the child's life and there is a court decision to grant them sole responsibility. Any other scenario seems to depend on how the UKBA interpret the situation, which varies. Consulting immigration lawyer may be one option, but I wonder how many of them are conversant with how UKBA carry out their duty of child welfare, based on UK law and practice.


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## blibli46 (May 28, 2012)

I can see your point, this is not a cut and dried issue, we have court order saying fiancee had sole custody and the ex has never complied with the court order, and has agreed to sign forms at notary. only issue is what to write in the letter to give ukba enough information. Also i gather sole custody and sole responsibility are not classed as the same thing? thanks for the input its great you guys are here to help.


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