# Changes to residency requirements - specific examples



## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Some case studies on how the law is being interpreted locally, from today's Iberosphere:

New rules raise hurdles to applying for residency in Spain | Iberosphere | Spain News and Portugal News - Information and Analysis



> Although the intention was clear, the exact means by which this would be proven, was not. The central Spanish government makes national policy but this is often interpreted at a regional as well as a town hall level. So what we are beginning to see is this latest dictate being interpreted in different ways in different parts of the country.
> 
> In order to give some indication of what might be asked for if you do want to apply for Spanish residency we selected three areas local to our offices to illustrate.
> 
> ...


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Alcalaina said:


> Some case studies on how the law is being interpreted locally, from today's Iberosphere:
> 
> New rules raise hurdles to applying for residency in Spain | Iberosphere | Spain News and Portugal News - Information and Analysis


oh joy


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

It would be useful if any new applicants could post their experiences here and say where they were applying!


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Alcalaina said:


> It would be useful if any new applicants could post their experiences here and say where they were applying!


yes, it would - so I'm going to link to this from the sticky


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## Solwriter (Jan 10, 2012)

I have a friend here who has trying to sort this out since April and I tried to help her at first, but now I have had to give up for lack of info.

She and her husband have already put by their 300 euros each to pay the fines they may have to pay for not registering before.
They already have health cards (under the S1 scheme), but are worried that these may not work now if they try to use them without residencia.
They have both declared for Tax and have sent off nil tax returns, even though their gestor said it wasn't really necessary.
And they have spoken to their bank manager about changing their bank account over once they finally have residencia.

But even though they have been along twice now to the centre in Granada to sign on, they have been turned away each time and have been told to try again in September to get a new appointment (because of course we are now into August...).

So they are stuck in limbo.

If I was thinking of moving to Spain at the moment, or sign on for residencia, I think I would decide not to bother until everyone gets their act together.
Although goodness knows when that will be.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Solwriter said:


> I have a friend here who has trying to sort this out since April and I tried to help her at first, but now I have had to give up for lack of info.
> 
> She and her husband have already put by their 300 euros each to pay the fines they may have to pay for not registering before.
> They already have health cards (under the S1 scheme), but are worried that these may not work now if they try to use them without residencia.
> ...


maybe that's the cunning plan


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## Solwriter (Jan 10, 2012)

xabiachica said:


> maybe that's the cunning plan


Wouldn't surprise me at all.


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## gus-lopez (Jan 4, 2010)

Solwriter said:


> I have a friend here who has trying to sort this out since April and I tried to help her at first, but now I have had to give up for lack of info.
> 
> She and her husband have already put by their 300 euros each to pay the fines they may have to pay for not registering before.
> They already have health cards (under the S1 scheme), but are worried that these may not work now if they try to use them without residencia.
> ...



Each & every time that they have been & got nowhere they should have asked for the 'hojas de reclamación' & made a complaint . This would absolve them from any possibility that they could be fined for failing to register. 

Let me assure you that they do work. The threat on it's own is often enough but obviously in this case being a gov. dept. they might prefer to accept the denuncía & let the health service take the flack. If it was me , I would be attending regularly , & making an official complaint every time & passing it on to the EU complaints dept. 

SOLVIT handles problems with a cross-border element that are due to bad application of EU law by public authorities within the EU member states

& let them do the work.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Not sure if this is the right place to post this but found it in my e-mail inbox today, from our Ayuntamiento (poorly translated, not by me) 
_*
NEW REGULATION 
FOR CITIZEN WHO HAVE ALREADY THEIR RESIDENCIA (GREEN PAPER) THEIR SITUATION WILL NOT CHANGE AT ALL AND DO NOT NEED TO APPLY AGAIN.

According to the new regulation from the European Community , we inform you that from now on ,citizens from Eu community who apply for residency in Spain will have to present a few documents as:

For Pensioners:

-	Certificado de empadronamiento (registry at the Town Hall)
-	Health cover ( medical insurance either from social security or private insurance)
-	Bank Statement proving that they receive monthly their pension.
-	Original and copy of passport
-	Application form

Not pensioners:

-	Certificado de empadronamiento (registry certificate at the Town Hall)

-	Work contract or Bank statement ( at least 6000 euros per year per person) to avoid to depend on Spanish government)

-	Health cover insurance (medical insurance either from social security or private insurance)

-	Original and copy of the passport

-	Application form 

You will have to call the National Police Station for appointment *_

So presumably a family of four will need to show proof of income of 24k euros p.a. ....or are children exempt from this requirement?


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

mrypg9 said:


> Not sure if this is the right place to post this but found it in my e-mail inbox today, from our Ayuntamiento (poorly translated, not by me)
> _*
> NEW REGULATION
> FOR CITIZEN WHO HAVE ALREADY THEIR RESIDENCIA (GREEN PAPER) THEIR SITUATION WILL NOT CHANGE AT ALL AND DO NOT NEED TO APPLY AGAIN.
> ...


I can't see that children would be exempt - they're damned expensive!!


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Not sure about income for children because the Spanish immigration website states that each family application will be considered on its merits, or something like that.

It's very good to have this level of detail. If anyone else comes across something similar from their own district please post here.


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## stevec2x (Mar 24, 2012)

*why residencia?*

We've been in Orihuela for almost 3 months now, and are trying to figure out whether to apply for residencia. We are early retirees (unless we can find work!) and at the moment we intend to rely on occasional flights back to blighty for medical reasons. To obtain residencia we would need medical insurance, but if we did we couldn't afford to live here! Can anyone clarify if we are required to apply for residencia, or if we simply have the right to apply?

We can't currently see any benefit from gaining residencia and we can't see why anybody would suddenly knock on our door and attempt to throw us out of Spain because we don't have it. Actually, has anybody got any experience of applying but being refused? If so, are you still allowed to live in Spain?

Cheers

Steve


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

stevec2x said:


> We've been in Orihuela for almost 3 months now, and are trying to figure out whether to apply for residencia. We are early retirees (unless we can find work!) and at the moment we intend to rely on occasional flights back to blighty for medical reasons. To obtain residencia we would need medical insurance, but if we did we couldn't afford to live here! Can anyone clarify if we are required to apply for residencia, or if we simply have the right to apply?
> 
> We can't currently see any benefit from gaining residencia and we can't see why anybody would suddenly knock on our door and attempt to throw us out of Spain because we don't have it. Actually, has anybody got any experience of applying but being refused? If so, are you still allowed to live in Spain?
> 
> ...


you aren't applying for residencia - you are _*required*_ to register as such if you plan to be here for more than 90 days

if you are living in Spain you no longer have the right to use the NHS in the UK

were you paying NI before you left? If so, you need to get in touch with the DWP in Newcastle & ask for S1s - if you are entitled to those you can register with the state health service here in Spain for up to 2 years & the UK pays Spain

you aren't likely to be kicked out of Spain if refused registration, or indeed if you don't register - but I wouldn't want to be in your shoes with no health cover.............effectively in either country 

as to whether someone would knock on your door - this _did_ happen to a friend of mine... thay have been living here for years & for some reason their gestor had told them they didn't need to register - until one day she told them that they did have to 

so they did............... and several weeks later the Guardia were indeed knocking on their door wanting to see all sorts of paperwork & asking why they had taken so long to register............. they passed the buck to the gestor


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

stevec2x said:


> We've been in Orihuela for almost 3 months now, and are trying to figure out whether to apply for residencia. We are early retirees (unless we can find work!) and at the moment we intend to rely on occasional flights back to blighty for medical reasons. To obtain residencia we would need medical insurance, but if we did we couldn't afford to live here! Can anyone clarify if we are required to apply for residencia, or if we simply have the right to apply?
> 
> We can't currently see any benefit from gaining residencia and we can't see why anybody would suddenly knock on our door and attempt to throw us out of Spain because we don't have it. Actually, has anybody got any experience of applying but being refused? If so, are you still allowed to live in Spain?
> 
> ...


You must apply, it's a legal requirement.
Then you must obtain medical insurance as if you are resident in Spain you are no longer entitled to UK NHS cover - you are no longer a UK resident and in most cases will lose your entitlement - and if you are caught using it you can be made to pay the costs!

As for the minimum 6k euros a year p.p. income requirement -rather on the low side inmo - yes, it should extend to dependents too as chidren will be using the state education services and possibly medical services too.

No such thing as a free lunch and given the present circumstances who can blame Spain for tightening up residence requirements?


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

stevec2x said:


> We've been in Orihuela for almost 3 months now, and are trying to figure out whether to apply for residencia. We are early retirees (unless we can find work!) and at the moment we intend to rely on occasional flights back to blighty for medical reasons. To obtain residencia we would need medical insurance, but if we did we couldn't afford to live here! Can anyone clarify if we are required to apply for residencia, or if we simply have the right to apply?
> 
> We can't currently see any benefit from gaining residencia and we can't see why anybody would suddenly knock on our door and attempt to throw us out of Spain because we don't have it. Actually, has anybody got any experience of applying but being refused? If so, are you still allowed to live in Spain?
> 
> ...


Do you still have a home in the UK? If so, could you not just go back there for a few days every three months so you aren't in Spain for more than 90 days at a time? Keep your travel documents in case anyone ever does check? I haven't seen any reference to a restriction on how long you can stay here on holiday!


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Alcalaina said:


> Do you still have a home in the UK? If so, could you not just go back there for a few days every three months so you aren't in Spain for more than 90 days at a time? Keep your travel documents in case anyone ever does check? I haven't seen any reference to a restriction on how long you can stay here on holiday!


yes, they can do that - to keep strictly within the rules they'd have to stay no longer than 89 days at a time

of course then there's the 182 days in a year tax residency issue................

but doable - & for sure keep tickets so that they can prove they don't live here - some people have had problems using the EHIC over (apparently) too long a period


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## Olddutch (Jan 18, 2011)

You are asking for our experience:
We are pensioners living in Granada province and have our Green residency documents. We eventually got our 'Numero de seguridad social' in March, and we were told our 'health card' would be sent to our home address. It's now August and we are still waiting. We've been told it can take up to a year! 
In the meantime we are paying privately every time we need a doctor and just my tablets cost more than Eur 100 per month. Its expensive, and I don't dare think what will happen if something serious happens...


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## javierch (Aug 2, 2012)

I don't understand how they can ask for a minimum amount of 24.000 for a family of 4 and private insurance in those working or self-employed as it makes not sense and they are not following the european directive at all ..
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=OJ:L:2004:158:0077:0123:en:PDF
Right of residence for more than three months
1. All Union citizens shall have the right of residence on the territory of another Member State for
a period of longer than three months if they:
(a) are workers or self-employed persons in the host Member State; or
(b) have sufficient resources for themselves and their family members not to become a burden on
the social assistance system of the host Member State during their period of residence and
have comprehensive sickness insurance cover in the host Member State; or
(c) – are enrolled at a private or public establishment, accredited or financed by the host
Member State on the basis of its legislation or administrative practice, for the principal
purpose of following a course of study, including vocational training; and
– have comprehensive sickness insurance cover in the host Member State and assure the
relevant national authority, by means of a declaration or by such equivalent means as
they may choose, that they have sufficient resources for themselves and their family
members not to become a burden on the social assistance system of the host Member
State during their period of residence; or

Surely they are at risk of being challenge in court on those points and probably also on the amount required to become a burden actually.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Olddutch said:


> You are asking for our experience:
> We are pensioners living in Granada province and have our Green residency documents. We eventually got our 'Numero de seguridad social' in March, and we were told our 'health card' would be sent to our home address. It's now August and we are still waiting. We've been told it can take up to a year!
> In the meantime we are paying privately every time we need a doctor and just my tablets cost more than Eur 100 per month. Its expensive, and I don't dare think what will happen if something serious happens...


under what circumstances do you qualify for the health card - are you pensioners or do you have S1 forms for another reason - or do you work & therefore pay into the system?


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## MrSam (Jul 31, 2012)

javierch said:


> I don't understand how they can ask for a minimum amount of 24.000 for a family of 4 and private insurance in those working or self-employed as it makes not sense and they are not following the european directive at all ..


I agree, it doesn't make sense but that is nothing new for government policies. Income alone can't determine if a person will become a burden on the State. What about expenses? Somebody on 6,000 p/a paying rent is going to find it much harder to survive than somebody on the same income who owns their home. I wonder what the actual statistics are for non-Spanish residents claiming benefits in Spain? Is this a real problem or is the government merely making a political statement with this ruling.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

javierch said:


> I don't understand how they can ask for a minimum amount of 24.000 for a family of 4 and private insurance in those working or self-employed as it makes not sense and they are not following the european directive at all ..
> http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=OJ:L:2004:158:0077:0123:en:PDF
> Right of residence for more than three months
> 1. All Union citizens shall have the right of residence on the territory of another Member State for
> ...


the 6000€ per person is just above the level at which the govt. would step in to help, so I guess that's where that figure comes in


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Olddutch said:


> You are asking for our experience:
> We are pensioners living in Granada province and have our Green residency documents. We eventually got our 'Numero de seguridad social' in March, and we were told our 'health card' would be sent to our home address. It's now August and we are still waiting. We've been told it can take up to a year!
> In the meantime we are paying privately every time we need a doctor and just my tablets cost more than Eur 100 per month. Its expensive, and I don't dare think what will happen if something serious happens...


Since you have your SS number you should be able to use the state services even though your cards haven't arrived. Ours took two years! Just show them the paperwork at the consultorio and if they look doubtful ask for an appointment with the social worker (trabajadora social). There's no way you should be paying that much for your prescriptions.


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## stevec2x (Mar 24, 2012)

Alcalaina said:


> Do you still have a home in the UK? If so, could you not just go back there for a few days every three months so you aren't in Spain for more than 90 days at a time? Keep your travel documents in case anyone ever does check? I haven't seen any reference to a restriction on how long you can stay here on holiday!


Yeah, we still own 2 properties in the UK but both are let out. We could simply visit family/friends every 3 months I suppose but it would cost on flights/transfers. Now, does anybody know, if we simply spend a night in a hotel in Gibraltar once every 3 months - would that do the trick?


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

stevec2x said:


> Yeah, we still own 2 properties in the UK but both are let out. We could simply visit family/friends every 3 months I suppose but it would cost on flights/transfers. Now, does anybody know, if we simply spend a night in a hotel in Gibraltar once every 3 months - would that do the trick?


yes it would - though keep your receipts


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## javierch (Aug 2, 2012)

I mean according to EU law a person exercises treaty rights if they are working .So The only thing that they need to demostrate is that they are working legally and that the contract is going to last more that 6 month I guess ,nothing else .And they dont need private medical insurance either because they are exercising their treaty rights under the category of workers and they only need to demostrate that they are working legally .
Also as soon as one person in the family is working the rest of the family is also exercising their treaty rights as a family member of a person exercising treaty rights ...so they all would be legal and entitle to medical insurance from the SS.

And the same happens with self-employment ,as soon as they can demostrate that one family member is self-employed ,they dont need to demostrate or take anything anything nor medical insurance,nor income earned,nothing .. ... just that one family member is exercising their treaty rights as self-employed ...and medical insurance will be covered by the SS when paying the self-employed insurance .

For those self-sufficient ,students,pensioners,people not working ,yes they will ask for income and private medical insurance but Im pretty sure It is to stop the scores of gypsies from Eastern Europe as until now They only needed empadronamiento for 1 or 2 years and afterwards they could access social assistance.Social Assistance is different from social security benefits and includes non contributory benefits plus rentas minimas in some CA's plus free social worker and social integration programmes,talleres en ayuntamientos,free housing or very cheap housing although in terrible,terrible areas,access to caritas,in some areas a minimum income of between 300 and 600 a month,free nursery places for their kids and meals,free school books,etc,free clothes,caritas pays their electricity and other bills,gives them food,help to make sure they send their kids to school,help with school work,help with summer clubs and activities for the kids and so on... so they have to have a programme to make sure they become as normal as possible and eventually work ,mainly gypsies cultures from spain and eastern europe,also other inmigrants and some dont want to work as they are free loaders although they live very marginally,they beg with kids even though they are giving help on the condition that they must send kids to school and not beg with them,etc .

I don't understand what They are doing as They will stop people that can help the country to improve and those begging and stealing will have enough money in the bank from being ilegally there for a while and eventually will be able to claim residence with that money in the bank.


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## Olddutch (Jan 18, 2011)

xabiachica said:


> under what circumstances do you qualify for the health card - are you pensioners or do you have S1 forms for another reason - or do you work & therefore pay into the system?


We are pensioners and have handed in our S1 form in March.


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## Olddutch (Jan 18, 2011)

Alcalaina said:


> Since you have your SS number you should be able to use the state services even though your cards haven't arrived. Ours took two years! Just show them the paperwork at the consultorio and if they look doubtful ask for an appointment with the social worker (trabajadora social). There's no way you should be paying that much for your prescriptions.


Thanks Alcalaina, we'll find a trabajadora social and take a Spanish speaking friend with us just in case.


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## samthemainman (Aug 15, 2012)

Hi all

Before I phone up the extranjeria in Valencia to ask (!). I work for a major IT company who have allowed me to work from Spain but remain on the UK payroll.

I turned up a few weeks ago all smug thinking I'd got everything I needed to get my new flimsy green 'residencia' card (or whatever they call it now for EU people staying longer than 90 days!). I took originals and photocopies of passport, rental contract, my empadronamiento (contrary to what I was told, in Valencia you need to be on the Padron BEFORE you obtain residency), a letter from my company saying I was employed on a permanent contract, with my salary details etc. I took payslips, I took proof of my Sanitas private healthcare. I had everything. Or so I thought...

It turns out a UK work contract is not enough - not because its written in English but because my cash isn't going into a Spanish bank account and that they want to see regular payments going into one. The guy at the Extrajeria said I should open a non-residents bank account. I asked him how regular was regular and how many payments did he need to see -especially as I in theory only have 90 days... He just said 'as many as possible'.

I totally understand why they're doing this - and I did open a non-residents bank account with La Caixa with no problems to pay my rent and other bills. However it annoys me that I have to give them an address in the UK which isn't my address but rather my deceased mother's which I'm trying to sell - the bank won't give you a non-residents account with a Spanish address - why would they). It also is annoying that I'm having to pay through the nose for non-resident charges (inc the 30.25 for the one-off non-residents charge, other admin charges, the 23 Euro charge for a debit card, blah blah blah) and then have to set up a NEW residents account when I do actually get the green card, have to change my DD details with all the utility companies etc. JUST BECAUSE I need to demonstrate cash coming in to Spain via a Spanish bank account.... anyway rant over.

The point is - what do I use as proof - is there a type of Bank certificate I need to request? (I received great personal banking service from the branch from a lady who basically said she'd provide me with whatever document I needed) or are bank statements enough?? The extranjeria understand I can't be paid directly into my Spanish account, and I have so far started transferring my payments across via a SEPA/Structured Payment from the Bank, and I've used my employers name as a payment reference. I plan to go back before the 90 day period to get it sorted. I'm actually making a couple of trips back to the UK in the interim (which I know resets the clock to 'zero' - but I want to get this sorted so I can get a proper bank account which doesn't haemorrhage charges as well as the NIE which I begrudge applying for separately - I'm too busy to have to queue for hours on two different days. I'm a 'get up early and get stuff sorted quickly' kind of guy!

I've moved over with my partner (we're a gay unmarried couple) - he's a teacher on a permanent contract and now has his green card after a pfaff getting the right Social Security documentation - but obviously I don't benefit from that as we're not in a civil union or married... so I'm having to do the leg work for myself (I'm not really a martyr!). Luckily I speak fairly decent Spanish.

Otherwise I'm loving Valencia - its an amazing place and after holidaying here half a dozen times I'm determined to make a real go of it! I'm very luck to have the flexibility from my employer - I just want the piece of mind of that flimsy green card :ranger:


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Just bumping this to the front again - if anyone has specific examples of what is being asked for in terms of proof of income etc for residency, please post them here.


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## mike kelly (Aug 12, 2009)

if you register with the "padron" in Barcelona, does this registration expire at any stage?


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

mike kelly said:


> if you register with the "padron" in Barcelona, does this registration expire at any stage?


the actual registration lasts for as long as you live at that address - you should inform them whenever you move

the actual _certificate_ is generally only good for 3 months though

in my area the ayuntamiento has over the past year or so been checking up by asking people to confirm their registration after 5 years if they haven't moved in that time


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## footloose5678 (May 25, 2012)

Hi My name Is Jacqui ,,I am moving to Spain In Feb, I am not sure where I will settle, I have a place for a month In Guardmar and will travel around to see where I would like to stay,,,,no remote places,,,do I need a long lease before I can apply for residence?? Also my big Question I am from the UK but at the moment live In Florida I could ship my car same side drive,and I read I can drive for six months with my drivers license,,Then apply for a Spanish one,,,I heard I can't buy a car there untill I become a legal resident,, Is this the case? Thank you for any help In this matter, Jacqui, also this Is my first time writing not sure If I have done It right.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

footloose5678 said:


> Hi My name Is Jacqui ,,I am moving to Spain In Feb, I am not sure where I will settle, I have a place for a month In Guardmar and will travel around to see where I would like to stay,,,,no remote places,,,do I need a long lease before I can apply for residence?? Also my big Question I am from the UK but at the moment live In Florida I could ship my car same side drive,and I read I can drive for six months with my drivers license,,Then apply for a Spanish one,,,I heard I can't buy a car there untill I become a legal resident,, Is this the case? Thank you for any help In this matter, Jacqui, also this Is my first time writing not sure If I have done It right.


:welcome:
you've done it right 

yes, you need a contract ( min 11 months has been recently reported) to be able register as resident

do you have a US driving license? if so - then you're right about being able to drive for 6 months - then you have to take a test, which involves taking lessons, too

if it's a UK license you can essentially just swap it - or not, because it's not required

imo it would be prohibitively expensive to bring your car over from the US & then matriculate it on to Spanish plates - many people decide that it's too expensive even from the UK

& yes, in some areas you do have to have a resident registration cert to buy a car - I think from what we're hearing that it will eventually be the case everywhere


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Hi Jacqui, welcome.

You can come to Spain on a 90-day "holiday" and have a look round. After that, if you intend to stay longer you will need to you will need to apply for residency, and you will be asked for evidence that you have sufficient income to live on and health insurance (see separate thread). 

Not sure about US-registered cars, but someone here will know!


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## footloose5678 (May 25, 2012)

Thanks for the Info,,,I have a US drivers license, It only costs $1500 to ship then I just need to change the back lights to amber ,I think that Is all, I will have to take the lessons, are they expensive? I "m just scared after driving forever, I fail,lol,, It would just give me six months ,I don"t want to be without a car to travel around looking at places, Iwas thinking of renting for one month In Javea,,,do you know anything about the places I have picked so far??? I have a brother In law and his wife In cabo Roig, I have lived In many countries so no fear ,,my moto If I can make it here I can make it anywhere!!! and have srarted learning my spanish,


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

footloose5678 said:


> Thanks for the Info,,,I have a US drivers license, It only costs $1500 to ship then I just need to change the back lights to amber ,I think that Is all, I will have to take the lessons, are they expensive? I "m just scared after driving forever, I fail,lol,, It would just give me six months ,I don"t want to be without a car to travel around looking at places, Iwas thinking of renting for one month In Javea,,,do you know anything about the places I have picked so far??? I have a brother In law and his wife In cabo Roig, I have lived In many countries so no fear ,,my moto If I can make it here I can make it anywhere!!! and have srarted learning my spanish,


I don't know Guardamar or Cabo Roig............... but I do know Jávea rather well having lived here 9 years 


why not start another thread about the various places you're interested in?


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## footloose5678 (May 25, 2012)

I"m back"""" I do have proof of income,, I will not work,, and I have US Military medical.. I can use In any country. I would love to know of any clubs to join as I am on my own,,,and would like to meet new friends and get Into life asap,,,I did try to go home lived In edinburgh joined a great club that had lots going on,,trips etc, I stayed for one year but the weather no thanks,, My sister and her husband plan to come out later In the year,,,I am the ginny pig I like that It Is my new adventure.. I do have dual citizenship so I can use my UK one to enter. funny my kids are American one just married an Irish girl and they live In Brighton, my daughter has a Scottish partner ,,and travels every three months to the Caribean ,,,then the Med so I can see her IN barcelona when she docks for an over night,,she danced for 8yrs on Holland America cruise, now she Is a Mom and travels with her guy he Is an officer engineer, and I have one In florida .I do go on sorry ,I am just glad to have people out there to help, Thanks , jacqui.


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## Clemmie00 (Jun 10, 2012)

Just need a bit of help as I'm all stressed out and confused!

I arrived in Valencia a few days ago, have a room in a rented flat and a few interviews lined up. So the next step is to register for Social Security and the NIE....how do I go about doing that? Does anyone in Valencia know where to do it?

Document-wise, what do I need to bring? 

I've read that you need to be on the _padron_ in Valencia before registering as a resident - where and how can you do that? 

The actual registration as a resident, I want to leave as long as possible, as I'll need a few weeks to get work contracts and all that. Any advice gratefully received!


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Clemmie00 said:


> Just need a bit of help as I'm all stressed out and confused!
> 
> I arrived in Valencia a few days ago, have a room in a rented flat and a few interviews lined up. So the next step is to register for Social Security and the NIE....how do I go about doing that? Does anyone in Valencia know where to do it?
> 
> ...


you have 90 days before you have to register as resident

if you are offered a contracted job they should help you with the SS number

in some areas you can register as resident before signing on the padrón............. in some it's the other way round....

the padrón you do at the local ayuntamiento ( you need your rental contract & passport & photocopies of them) & the resident registration at the extranjería

non-residents can have a NIE number - you get that at the extranjería too . just don't say you live here - use form EX 15 from our FAQs & useful info thread - you'll get NIE number on a certificate which expires in 3 months 

when you go to register as resident download the EX18 & use that


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## thrax (Nov 13, 2008)

Someone mentioned how much income is required for children in an earlier post. When we re-registered at a new clinic we were asked to provide a residencia NIE for our boy who is just under 2 1/2. Now, whilst we have our papers all correct we did worry that we might now have to prove income etc since we were applying for our boy. However, we were told at the police station that we did not have to prove income for a child. He now has his flimsy green card NIE residencia and everything else he needs to go to school, have health care (he is under 18 so he would get that anyway) and he can prove who he is and that he is human. We were also told that because we have our residencia we would not have to prove income, it only applies to those applying since April as I think someone else mentioned earlier.


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## Clemmie00 (Jun 10, 2012)

xabiachica said:


> you have 90 days before you have to register as resident
> 
> if you are offered a contracted job they should help you with the SS number
> 
> ...


Thanks for the info.

So the padron isn't really that important right now? I could leave that a bit until I'm ready to register?

Do I have to go somewhere and get my own SS number or does the employer sort it out? 

Do I really have to pretend I don't live here to get the NIE number? I can't just say I'm waiting to register? Can I just print out the form from here and take it along? Do I need any additional documentation?


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Clemmie00 said:


> Thanks for the info.
> 
> So the padron isn't really that important right now? I could leave that a bit until I'm ready to register?
> 
> ...


why do you actually need a NIE number just now? Unless you are wanting to buy a property no-one is going to need it until you get a job - then you can register as resident & get it then

yes, you can print the form from here, complete it & take it along - some offices have an appointment system though

if you use the EX15 they probably won't even ask why you need a NIE - I'm not saying lie - just don't volunteer the info - & _legally _you can still be considered to be on holiday for up to 90 days anyway - you don't actually live here yet - I'm guessing that if you don't get work you'll be going 'home'? So you don't need to do all that paperwork until you know you are staying

from memory you need your passport & photocopy - I think it says on the form anyway

the SS number comes from the INSS office - my gestor did it all for me - he actually filled in the forms, I signed them & he went to the office - it IS perfectly possible to do it yourself, but for me it was easier that way logistically. If you get a contracted job your employer should sort it out for you but some won't & you'll have to do it yourself


although looking at your posts you've already been here longer than 90 days???


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## Clemmie00 (Jun 10, 2012)

xabiachica said:


> why do you actually need a NIE number just now? Unless you are wanting to buy a property no-one is going to need it until you get a job - then you can register as resident & get it then
> 
> yes, you can print the form from here, complete it & take it along - some offices have an appointment system though
> 
> ...


Yes, I need it to get a job. I've had a few good interviews but I can't proceed much further without the NIE. I can't register as a resident because due to the new system, I need to build up hours before I can prove my income is sufficient to support myself. I've only been here a few days and currently living off my last paycheck from England. 

I'm currently having interviews and hope to build up a decent teaching timetable in the next few weeks before I register. If I can't do that, then as you said, I'll be going home. If things go well, I intend to register by November - I should know by then if what I'm earning is enough.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Clemmie00 said:


> Yes, I need it to get a job. I've had a few good interviews but I can't proceed much further without the NIE. I can't register as a resident because due to the new system, I need to build up hours before I can prove my income is sufficient to support myself. I've only been here a few days and currently living off my last paycheck from England.
> 
> I'm currently having interviews and hope to build up a decent teaching timetable in the next few weeks before I register. If I can't do that, then as you said, I'll be going home. If things go well, I intend to register by November - I should know by then if what I'm earning is enough.


apologies - maybe I misunderstood your earlier posts

OK - so if you need a NIE just go & get one 

it's a bit of a catch 22 because you aren't supposed to work without registering as autónomo if you're doing private classes - if you get a proper contracted position then you should be able to register as resident with that

good luck


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## Clemmie00 (Jun 10, 2012)

xabiachica said:


> apologies - maybe I misunderstood your earlier posts
> 
> OK - so if you need a NIE just go & get one
> 
> ...


I'm not going to do private classes because registering as autonomo is too much hassle. Most of the academies I've contacted are happy to give me a fixed hours contract which should entitle me to health care etc.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Clemmie00 said:


> I'm not going to do private classes because registering as autonomo is too much hassle. Most of the academies I've contacted are happy to give me a fixed hours contract which should entitle me to health care etc.


then you'll be fine


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## Clemmie00 (Jun 10, 2012)

OK, I've applied for my NIE (the girl in the office insisted I didn't need it and that I could get work without it, but employers don't seem to agree).

Now...I've been offered a contract for 670 euros net. Seguridad social paid, all above board etc. Is this enough to qualify for residencia? I hope to add on more hours later, but this would be my main source of income in Spain.


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## klippenpisser (Sep 21, 2012)

OOOHH DEAR!! Im thinking of coming to live in Spain Around Nerja,I'm leaving all my payments of Pensions etc at my familys address in the uk iff i need dosh i'll do a transfer or pick up from atm, eventually opening an account there? I was living in germany for umpteen years got a pension from there to also as i receive this pension i have an EU health card for treatment in the EU also i'm entitled to NHS to.So my question is can i rent a property without residency?what documents do the estate agents need?I'm leaving all my finances in uk just in case all goes pear shape and i dont fit in in Spain.Would i being doing all legal?by the way i dont need a job!


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

klippenpisser said:


> OOOHH DEAR!! Im thinking of coming to live in Spain Around Nerja,I'm leaving all my payments of Pensions etc at my familys address in the uk iff i need dosh i'll do a transfer or pick up from atm, eventually opening an account there? I was living in germany for umpteen years got a pension from there to also as i receive this pension i have an EU health card for treatment in the EU also i'm entitled to NHS to.So my question is can i rent a property without residency?what documents do the estate agents need?I'm leaving all my finances in uk just in case all goes pear shape and i dont fit in in Spain.Would i being doing all legal?by the way i dont need a job!


OK - you have an EHIC card? - that entitles you to *emergency healthcare on holiday *- it's not for people who live in another country

if you are in Spain for more than 90 days you are *required *by Spain to *register as resident*

you might well be able to have your pension paid into a UK bank account - but in order to register as resident, as you have read, you will have to show proof of income & they might insist that it is paid into a Spanish account

if you are getting a state pension from the UK you will be able to get an S1 form which links you into the state healthcare here & you can have full treatment on an equal footing with a Spanish citizen

if you are here for more than 182/365 days a year you should be making a tax return here - which _doesn't _mean you would pay more tax


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## NickZ (Jun 26, 2009)

xabiachica said:


> they might insist that it is paid into a Spanish account


Why wouldn't that violate the common market? 

Aren't banking services covered?


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

NickZ said:


> Why wouldn't that violate the common market?
> 
> Aren't banking services covered?



.... how else can you prove, to their satisfaction, that you have sufficient euros (not sterling) to live on without being a burden to the state.

If you have a UK bank account, how can you pay for rent, gas, water, electric, food, many of which have to be paid by direct debit.


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## NickZ (Jun 26, 2009)

snikpoh said:


> If you have a UK bank account, how can you pay for rent, gas, water, electric, food, many of which have to be paid by direct debit.



In the Euro zone there is no real difference if the bank is in Spain or one of the other 17 countries. 

Not sure about direct debit but certainly payments within the area aren't an issue. The whole point of the Single Euro payment zone was to make stuff like this simple. 


Single Euro Payments Area ? SEPA - Payment services - Internal Market - European Commission

I wonder if requiring a Spanish bank would be considered state aid.

Q & A - Single Euro Payments Area ? SEPA - Payment services - Internal Market - European Commission

Allegedly direct debits are covered by SEPA.


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## gus-lopez (Jan 4, 2010)

xabiachica said:


> OK - you have an EHIC card? - that entitles you to *emergency healthcare on holiday *- it's not for people who live in another country
> 
> if you are in Spain for more than 90 days you are *required *by Spain to *register as resident*
> 
> ...




Regarding the S1 it would depend on who is the majority payer of pension income. If the op worked & paid for the longest time in Germany then he Germans would be liable for his healthcare & he would have to apply to them for it.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

gus-lopez said:


> Regarding the S1 it would depend on who is the majority payer of pension income. If the op worked & paid for the longest time in Germany then he Germans would be liable for his healthcare & he would have to apply to them for it.


true 

complicated isn't it?


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## NathanInSpain (Sep 23, 2012)

This is an translation of the legislation about this: Residency requirements - for information only

I'm confused how they can say you must have an income of 6k a year in order to register. Has anyone found anything official about this? A EU citizen has a right to move to another country to seek work as long as they don't become a burden on the state during that time (this has been the case since the case of Antonissen (1989)) so long as they follow the procedural requirements of that state. If Spain is actually denying a right to register as a resident because they don't yet have a work contract then they're going to find themselves in some trouble.

I'd also be interested to read legislation on penalties for not registering too.

Also, what do they actually check when you go to the police station to get the card. Do they just check your documents and the police computer to make sure you're not someone whose committed crime? It seems odd that its so complicated but it seems they give you a card in the same day :/


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

NathanInSpain said:


> This is an translation of the legislation about this: Residency requirements - for information only
> 
> I'm confused how they can say you must have an income of 6k a year in order to register. Has anyone found anything official about this? A EU citizen has a right to move to another country to seek work as long as they don't become a burden on the state during that time (this has been the case since the case of Antonissen (1989)) so long as they follow the procedural requirements of that state. If Spain is actually denying a right to register as a resident because they don't yet have a work contract then they're going to find themselves in some trouble.
> 
> ...


mrypg had an e-mail from the local ayuntamiento which stated 6000€

that's the only actual figure I've ever seen though 

they are only refusing to register those who have no proof of income of any kind - they are accepting bank statements showing regular income - they do seem to want Spanish bank accounts though


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## brocher (Mar 21, 2011)

NathanInSpain said:


> This is an translation of the legislation about this: Residency requirements - for information only
> 
> I'm confused how they can say you must have an income of 6k a year in order to register. Has anyone found anything official about this? A EU citizen has a right to move to another country to seek work as long as they don't become a burden on the state during that time (this has been the case since the case of Antonissen (1989)) so long as they follow the procedural requirements of that state. If Spain is actually denying a right to register as a resident because they don't yet have a work contract then they're going to find themselves in some trouble.
> 
> ...




....and that's all they are asking you to do - prove you have sufficient income and healthcare provision so that you don't become a burden on the state. Nothing very confusing about that really.

Have you followed up on the previous advice re. different requirements for au pairs?


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## brocher (Mar 21, 2011)

Clemmie00 said:


> OK, I've applied for my NIE (the girl in the office insisted I didn't need it and that I could get work without it, but employers don't seem to agree).
> 
> Now...I've been offered a contract for 670 euros net. Seguridad social paid, all above board etc. Is this enough to qualify for residencia? I hope to add on more hours later, but this would be my main source of income in Spain.


Clemmie, you post seems to have got a bit lost. Well done on the job!

Sounds like your wage will be about enough for residency. Still no one knows the exact amount required but it seems to be around 6000 euros per annum. I think it wouldn't be enough to cover your partner, too, though.


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## NathanInSpain (Sep 23, 2012)

brocher said:


> ....and that's all they are asking you to do - prove you have sufficient income and healthcare provision so that you don't become a burden on the state. Nothing very confusing about that really.


It's confusing for me if not for you 

I guess the confusing thing is that usually to prove sufficient funds you would not need to prove income. As many people would have sufficient funds to stay somewhere more than 90 days without having an income as those registering are not necessarily looking to become permanent residents. There seems to be a variety of ways to prove funds though...

I emailed a lawyer for advice about the au pair thing. Will post his reply in that thread.


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## NickZ (Jun 26, 2009)

NathanInSpain said:


> It's confusing for me if not for you
> 
> I guess the confusing thing is that usually to prove sufficient funds you would not need to prove income. As many people would have sufficient funds to stay somewhere more than 90 days without having an income as those registering are not necessarily looking to become permanent residents. There seems to be a variety of ways to prove funds though...
> 
> .



The rules don't require income but a job is the simplest. Cash works.


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## brocher (Mar 21, 2011)

NathanInSpain said:


> It's confusing for me if not for you
> 
> I guess the confusing thing is that usually to prove sufficient funds you would not need to prove income. As many people would have sufficient funds to stay somewhere more than 90 days without having an income as those registering are not necessarily looking to become permanent residents. There seems to be a variety of ways to prove funds though...
> 
> I emailed a lawyer for advice about the au pair thing. Will post his reply in that thread.


The words - funds/ income - are interchangeable i.e. you do not have to have prove you hane earned income (wages). 

You could prove sufficient income/ funds from a pension, savings, property income rental, a trust fund, a spouses income, etc.


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## Manin_bcn (Jun 18, 2011)

*Registering in another province*

I have lived in Barcelona for almost three years but moved to Altea just three weeks ago. I have my NIE, SS and residencia (in Barca, of course). So, I need to go to the Town Hall here and register. Just take my current documents?

What else?

Thx


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

Manin_bcn said:


> I have lived in Barcelona for almost three years but moved to Altea just three weeks ago. I have my NIE, SS and residencia (in Barca, of course). So, I need to go to the Town Hall here and register. Just take my current documents?
> 
> What else?
> 
> Thx


You will also need either your rental contract or your escritura.


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## Manin_bcn (Jun 18, 2011)

snikpoh said:


> You will also need either your rental contract or your escritura.


okay, thanks, yes, I have my rental contract .. but what is escritura?


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

Manin_bcn said:


> okay, thanks, yes, I have my rental contract .. but what is escritura?


If you own a property, then escritura means the deeds (actually, it means that anyway !doh!)


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## gracegaldo (Mar 10, 2012)

So yesterday, after 16 visits to the Oficina de Extranjeros in Granada, I was granted Spanish residency. Ahhhhhh :clap2:

I was starting to think it might never happen. In short, this is what happened:

We tried to use my husbands pre employment contract to cover my need for health insurance and savings/income. We were told we could do this without problem, as long as his contract was stamped by INEM. When his employer took the contract to get the INEM stamp they refused, saying that his employer needs to hire a Spaniard to do the job, or at least go to great lengths to prove that she cannot. This is understandable in the current crisis, except for the fact that you need to be a native English speaker to do my husbands work 

So with that option out, the only option was to go for the traditional route of proving an excess of 5,000 euros in the bank and getting private health insurance. I'm very lucky to have extremely helpful and generous in laws who are willing to lend us the cash to boost our bank balance for a while (we were actually told by the oficina to consider borrowing the money if we needed it. I thought this might be seen as cheating, but apparently not). Then there was another stroke of luck, as the advisor told me that I could use my EHIC card to cover my health insurance for my residencia! So she stapled my bits of paper together, told me to go and pay the bank 10 euros, come back with the receipt and BOOM- residency 

I'm not sure whats going on with the EHIC, as far as I'm aware you can't use that when resident, you have to be a visitor or a student. Either I'm wrong or the Oficina is. But I've got residency and I can start paying some taxes, which Spain should be quite chuffed about  

I though this info might be able to help people who are jumping the same hurdles right now.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

gracegaldo said:


> So yesterday, after 16 visits to the Oficina de Extranjeros in Granada, I was granted Spanish residency. Ahhhhhh :clap2:
> 
> I was starting to think it might never happen. In short, this is what happened:
> 
> ...


:clap2:

I have to admit to being confused about the EHIC thing though - you're right that it's for holidaymakers - so I think you got lucky - all done now though 

all you needed for proof of income was 5000€ in the bank? - interesting.............

so just your husband to sort out then?


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## gracegaldo (Mar 10, 2012)

xabiachica said:


> :clap2:
> 
> I have to admit to being confused about the EHIC thing though - you're right that it's for holidaymakers - so I think you got lucky - all done now though
> 
> ...


Yep just the hubby to go now....uh oh! 

Yes I'm pretty sure I just got lucky with the EHIC, within the next couple of weeks we will have have full social security set up so it wont be a problem. We just have to keep the high risk activity to a minimum until then!! 

They asked for 5,000 for a single application and 8,000 for a couple applying together. Because my husband is from outside the EU and we are not applying together apparently I only needed the 5,000. I've heard some people say they have been quoted different amounts, so maybe it just depends on what province you are in, or even the person you speak to on the day!


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## sgaldo (Nov 15, 2010)

hi everybody. i'm the husband. 
we've been told now that grace needs a job contract or we need 8000 euros.
i already have a job contract, but now they say its not enough, even when paired with our 5000 euro. 
at the oficina de extranjeros in granada, it seems every time we check something off the list, there's something added on.


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## sgaldo (Nov 15, 2010)

gracegaldo said:


> Yep just the hubby to go now....uh oh!
> 
> Yes I'm pretty sure I just got lucky with the EHIC, within the next couple of weeks we will have have full social security set up so it wont be a problem. We just have to keep the high risk activity to a minimum until then!!
> 
> They asked for 5,000 for a single application and 8,000 for a couple applying together. Because my husband is from outside the EU and we are not applying together apparently I only needed the 5,000. I've heard some people say they have been quoted different amounts, so maybe it just depends on what province you are in, or even the person you speak to on the day!


hi everybody. i'm the husband. 
we've been told now that grace needs a job contract or we need 8000 euros.
i already have a job contract, but now they say its not enough, even when paired with our 5000 euro. 
at the oficina de extranjeros in granada, it seems every time we check something off the list, there's something added on.

** didnt mean to post this twice. sorry.


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## gus-lopez (Jan 4, 2010)

sgaldo said:


> hi everybody. i'm the husband.
> we've been told now that grace needs a job contract or we need 8000 euros.
> i already have a job contract, but now they say its not enough, even when paired with our 5000 euro.
> at the oficina de extranjeros in granada, it seems every time we check something off the list, there's something added on.
> ...


I thought from her previous post that she had been granted it ? If she was & now isn't then that is illegal under EU law. 
EU law states that you must be given a list of what is required, once given it cannot be added to. They cannot then ask for additional info . it is illegal. If you have supplied what they asked for the first time the certificate must be issued while you wait, no additional return trips etc; are allowed under EU law. Make a complaint by asking for the 'hojas de reclamación ' & also complain through the EU SOLVIT process where you can ask them to do all the work for you.

https://ec.europa.eu/citizensrights/


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

gus-lopez said:


> I thought from her previous post that she had been granted it ? If she was & now isn't then that is illegal under EU law.
> EU law states that you must be given a list of what is required, once given it cannot be added to. They cannot then ask for additional info . it is illegal. If you have supplied what they asked for the first time the certificate must be issued while you wait, no additional return trips etc; are allowed under EU law. Make a complaint by asking for the 'hojas de reclamación ' & also complain through the EU SOLVIT process where you can ask them to do all the work for you.
> 
> https://ec.europa.eu/citizensrights/


she has been granted residency - but in order for him to get it too, she has to show that *she*can support *him - *which presumably is where her needing either employment or more money in the bank comes from

he can't be employed until he has residency - so an offer of employment on his part wouldn't count, strictly speaking


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