# Staying for 4 months



## Colin13846 (Oct 8, 2015)

Normally stay for 3 months but going to try 4 months next winter. I’m retired in good health, with regular income and will have travel insurance as well as E111 card, renting a friends apartment.
Exceeding 90 days which I haven’t done before, any suggestions on how to stay legal?


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## Rabbitcat (Aug 31, 2014)

Believe me for a 28 day overstay -it's neither possible nor worth the hassle of trying to be fully legal 

By the time you get registered as resident it will be time to apply to be deregistered and add to that it's nigh on impossible to get full no co payment health ins for less than 12 months

Despite what some might say the authorities have bigger fish to try than even bothering with a 1 month overstay


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## Localizer (Jun 23, 2016)

I can't think you'd be able to make any progress in that time frame that would actually work or be worthwhile.
Couple of thoughts though - make sure your travel insurance will cover you for a 120 day stay, some have limits. The reverse if true for your home insurance in the UK - make sure it covers you for a 120 day absence.
Anecdotally, some people have told me in this extended stay situation they carry a copy of their return ticket in their car glove box - when inside the 90 days to departure period - to show they actually are leaving the country if stopped and casually questioned on the roadside.

Other than insurance, I don't think you really have much to worry about that should affect your enjoyment of the 4 months - you'll be among many others who are doing the same.


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

Colin13846 said:


> Normally stay for 3 months but going to try 4 months next winter. I’m retired in good health, with regular income and will have travel insurance as well as E111 card, renting a friends apartment.
> Exceeding 90 days which I haven’t done before, any suggestions on how to stay legal?


The rules are clear - if you are here for 90 days in one chunk and intend to stay for longer, then you must register.

In your case, as you don't intend making Spain your home there's no problem - you are perfectly legal.

By-the-way; The E111 was abolished about 12 years ago - it's now an EHIC.


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## Colin13846 (Oct 8, 2015)

snikpoh said:


> The rules are clear - if you are here for 90 days in one chunk and intend to stay for longer, then you must register.
> 
> In your case, as you don't intend making Spain your home there's no problem - you are perfectly legal.
> 
> By-the-way; The E111 was abolished about 12 years ago - it's now an EHIC.


I am aware of the 90 day rule and I have no desire to break the law hence the the reason for my original post with the final comment being “how to stay legal”
Your answer appears to state ‘the 90 day rule doesn’t apply in my case as I won’t be intending making Spain my home and there will be no problem and that I will be perfectly legal.’
I’m slightly surprised by your answer.
Thanks for pointing out that I am incorrectly referring to my EHIC as the old E111, at least it’s up to date!


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## CapnBilly (Jun 7, 2011)

snikpoh said:


> The rules are clear - if you are here for 90 days in one chunk and intend to stay for longer, then you must register.
> 
> In your case, as you don't intend making Spain your home there's no problem - you are perfectly legal.


Not sure I agree with your interpretation. This is the wording from the actual legislation

“.....estarán obligados a solicitar personalmente ante la oficina de extranjeros de la provincia donde pretendan permanecer o fijar su residencia...”

It seems pretty clear that if you stay longer than than 3 months, irrespective of whether you intend to make it your home or not, then you are required to register. Failure to do do could mean that you could be liable for a fine, although I have never seen any reports if these.


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

CapnBilly said:


> Not sure I agree with your interpretation. This is the wording from the actual legislation
> 
> “.....estarán obligados a solicitar personalmente ante la oficina de extranjeros de la provincia donde pretendan permanecer o fijar su residencia...”
> 
> It seems pretty clear that if you stay longer than than 3 months, irrespective of whether you intend to make it your home or not, then you are required to register. Failure to do do could mean that you could be liable for a fine, although I have never seen any reports if these.


What you have posted, in Spanish is exactly the case. The key being "... de la provincia donde pretendan permanecer o fijar su residencia" Meaning "...of the province where they intend to remain or fix their residence.

Residence means "A residence is an establishment where it was originally or currently being used by a host as their main place of dwelling".

Clearly this is not the case as they are not intending to stay here.

QED!


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## CapnBilly (Jun 7, 2011)

snikpoh said:


> What you have posted, in Spanish is exactly the case. The key being "... de la provincia donde pretendan permanecer o fijar su residencia" Meaning "...of the province where they intend to remain or fix their residence.
> 
> Residence means "A residence is an establishment where it was originally or currently being used by a host as their main place of dwelling".
> 
> ...


I don’t disagree with your interpretation of residence, but that you consider there is only one action (fix their residence) whereas I read it as two, (where they are staying OR fixing their residence)

The Your Europe page of the EU confirms this interpretation

“In all of these cases, you must still register with the Central Register of Foreign Nationals (Registro Central de Extranjeros), no later than 3 months after arriving in Spain.” Note the word arriving, with no qualification of intention.

This is the same wording as the EU Directive, on which the Spanish legislation is based.

NB in all cases refers to how you can qualify, so employment, personal resources etc.


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## Leper (May 12, 2010)

It's no big deal staying in Spain for a month over the 90 days. I know people who are without residentia residing in Spain for more than 90 months. Like somebody pointed out earlier there are bigger fish in the sea for Policíá de la Frontera to seek. OK! we're all law abiding people and an extra four weeks in the sun is hardly an issue that will have armed police with sharp shooters outside the door of your apartment. By staying 25% longer you're spending 25% more. Most recognize this and believe me the Spanish economy needs your money and no better people to drain the last bob from you and they'll smile in the process too. We're all Europeans in the EU, you know!

Forgive me for pointing out:- I think somebody got a little hot under the collar earlier on the subject. If you post here, you must be aware that somebody may put up a post that raises a hackle or two. It's life, get used to it.


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## Juan C (Sep 4, 2017)

Colín in answer to your question 

If you intend to stay more than three months by law you are required to register on the EU Citizens Register. If you do not intend to do but do you stay then you must register 

That is what the law says

Of course there are many people who get away without doing so. But you were asking about legality 

I agree it seems a lot of trouble to register in the circumstances you describe but that would not excuse one if they were prosecuted

Of course with Brexit looming the authorities may start looking at breaches of the law which hitherto were ignored

You may also find your EHIC may become invalid as it is only for visitors and as you would in law be required to register DWP might not cover you thus you might get a bill for any treatment. Just a thought


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## Isobella (Oct 16, 2014)

Leper said:


> It's no big deal staying in Spain for a month over the 90 days. I know people who are without residentia residing in Spain for more than 90 months. Like somebody pointed out earlier there are bigger fish in the sea for Policíá de la Frontera to seek. OK! we're all law abiding people and an extra four weeks in the sun is hardly an issue that will have armed police with sharp shooters outside the door of your apartment. By staying 25% longer you're spending 25% more. Most recognize this and believe me the Spanish economy needs your money and no better people to drain the last bob from you and they'll smile in the process too. We're all Europeans in the EU, you know!
> 
> Forgive me for pointing out:- I think somebody got a little hot under the collar earlier on the subject. If you post here, you must be aware that somebody may put up a post that raises a hackle or two. It's life, get used to it.


Agree, there are thousands living under the radar ALL the time, also quite a few wanted criminals too. Our Norwegian friends stay Nov to March every year and do nothing. I remember getting my hand slapped on here because I said we hadn't registered when we stayed 5 months. Not just the registering I would be worried about getting into a complicated tax situation. If your EHIC card is valid the hospital doesn't ask residency questions.

Anyway the OP knows the rules, up to him what he chooses to do.


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## JimmyLocksDad (Nov 2, 2017)

Totally agree Isobella, I also think that the authorities have bigger and more serious things to look at than someone staying an extra month or two in Spain and spending their money boosting the local economy. But we must remember that some people are so self righteous and law abiding that they'd actually be tempted to report themselves if they accidentally found themselves driving 33 in a 30kph limit


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

If you have bought your return tickets and can clearly demonstrate you have no intention of making Spain your permanent home, I would not lose any sleep over staying an extra month. It's the spirit, rather than the letter, of the law that counts in this case.


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## Rabbitcat (Aug 31, 2014)

Go on, live on the wild side .

Risk 4 weeks without registering........

Do you feel lucky.....


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## Horlics (Sep 27, 2011)

Rabbitcat said:


> Go on, live on the wild side .
> 
> Risk 4 weeks without registering........
> 
> Do you feel lucky.....


I know what you mean 

But, my only caution would be about the validity of the EHIC. Yes, if in the 4th month of your by-then illegal visit, you were to walk into a clinic with a cut finger and have a few stitches put in, then yes, they'd accept your card and ask no questions.

But, if you were to have an accident and break a few bones, and require several operations and a hospital stay of 3 months, then they would be looking into your circumstances, they'd call "not valid" on your EHIC, and you'd be looking at 1000s in fees.

In every other respect staying a month over is no big deal.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Rabbitcat said:


> Go on, live on the wild side .
> 
> Risk 4 weeks without registering........
> 
> Do you feel lucky.....


4 *months*, not 4 weeks...


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## Horlics (Sep 27, 2011)

Pesky Wesky said:


> 4 *months*, not 4 weeks...


I think he means the 4 weeks of the month after the legal 3 months.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Horlics said:


> I know what you mean
> 
> But, my only caution would be about the validity of the EHIC. Yes, if in the 4th month of your by-then illegal visit, you were to walk into a clinic with a cut finger and have a few stitches put in, then yes, they'd accept your card and ask no questions.
> 
> ...


It might depend where you are. I'm pretty sure most places would treat you without questioning how long you've been in the country. Certainly where I live I've never known anyone who's had to give those details, even when the've been in the country well over a year ... But I think I've seen it mentioned on this forum that some hospitals, in areas where there are lots of foreigners (Costa Blanca?) do carry out some sort of check?

Incidentally an EHIC doesn't have a specific time limit. As well as holiday-makers, it is intended for temporary stays e.g. overseas students or workers on fixed term contracts to whom the three-month rule doesn't apply.


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## Colin13846 (Oct 8, 2015)

Thanks for the replies.
Just a thought occurred today, if I stay for 3 months and return to the UK or leave Spain and then return for 1 more month that would be legal.
So if after 3 months I spend a weekend in Gibraltar and then return to Spain for the remaining 1 month how would that stand?


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## Juan C (Sep 4, 2017)

Just to clarify. 

When I said if one is treated on an EHIC you may be billed. What I meant was that you might be billed by DWP when you return to U.K. Thus if you had received expensive treatment, as an in patient, operation etc. you might get a nasty shock 

I would suggest anyone considering ‘over staying’ might contact DWP and ask what could. happen


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## Rabbitcat (Aug 31, 2014)

I think there's a mountain definitely being made out of a molehill on this one!!!!

At the end of the day you're not going get locked up over it- and even if they did put you away you couldn't get more than 90 days as that's all you're allowed to be there!!!!


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## Juan C (Sep 4, 2017)

Re the idea of taking a day or two outside spain. 

I believe the regulation says ‘more than 90 days PERMANENTLY’ so breaking that period would seem to be a legal way round that unless there is a qualification which excludes odd days


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## Juan C (Sep 4, 2017)

My post re leaving also for a day or two seems to have disappeared. So:

The rule says ‘90 days PERMANENTLY’. so unless there is a regulation, or judicial finding, which says odd days are to be ignored, it would seem that even stepping over a border would start afresh packet of 90 days


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## Colin13846 (Oct 8, 2015)

Juan C said:


> Just to clarify.
> 
> When I said if one is treated on an EHIC you may be billed. What I meant was that you might be billed by DWP when you return to U.K. Thus if you had received expensive treatment, as an in patient, operation etc. you might get a nasty shock
> 
> I would suggest anyone considering ‘over staying’ might contact DWP and ask what could. happen


Juan 
Although I will be carrying a EHIC for minor issues I will also have full personal travel insurance in case of any unforeseen accidents etc. So I’m hoping I would be covered in both extremes.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Colin13846 said:


> Thanks for the replies.
> Just a thought occurred today, if I stay for 3 months and return to the UK or leave Spain and then return for 1 more month that would be legal.
> So if after 3 months I spend a weekend in Gibraltar and then return to Spain for the remaining 1 month how would that stand?


There is no way to tell you've been to Gib for the weekend because nobody logs passport details. The police barely glance at them on the way in, and often the electronic scanners aren't used when leaving because people can walk through the open gate with the Spanish workers who just show their ID card.

I suppose you could use credit card transactions etc but quite honestly I think this is a non-issue. I've never heard of anyone being "found out" for overstaying, let alone fined, and I bet nobody else on here has either. The law was introduced to try and deter Eastern Europeans from becoming a "burden on the state", not to penalise well-heeled travellers from Northern Europe.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Alcalaina said:


> There is no way to tell you've been to Gib for the weekend because nobody logs passport details. The police barely glance at them on the way in, and often the electronic scanners aren't used when leaving because people can walk through the open gate with the Spanish workers who just show their ID card.
> 
> I suppose you could use credit card transactions etc but quite honestly I think this is a non-issue. I've never heard of anyone being "found out" for overstaying, let alone fined, and I bet nobody else on here has either. The law was introduced to try and deter Eastern Europeans from becoming a "burden on the state", not to penalise well-heeled travellers from Northern Europe.


Yes, It can be a useful way of detaining someone who is suspected of other crimes like drug deals, rape, or being a pain in the arrse in some way


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

This whole 90 day thing has been bugging me so I've checked some legal and travel sites. I don't think I am allowed to post links, but essentially:



> Esos 90 días pueden ser ininterrumpidos o sumados en varios periodos. Así, puedes entrar una vez y estar 90 días seguidos, o varias veces, siempre que la suma de los días de todos estos viajes sea igual o inferior a 90. Resaltamos que el cómputo se hace por días, no por meses.
> 
> Para mencionar un ejemplo: Si entraste como turista en España el 1º de enero de 2016, estuviste ininterrumpidamente y saliste el 30 de marzo de ese año, no podrías regresar como turista hasta el 1º de julio de 2016.


The permitted stay for tourists, with or without a visa, is 90 days within a six month period. They don't have to be consecutive. You cannot leave for one day and then start the clock again. If you come to Spain on 1 January and leave on 30 March, you can't officially return until 1 July. 



> *¿Se puede extender el plazo de los 90 días?*
> Sí, pero sólo si se solicita y se obtiene una autorización de prórroga. Esto aplica tanto a quienes poseen un visado como a quienes no lo requieren. Desafortunadamente, los motivos son muy restrictivos, básicamente por razones de enfermedad o accidente, por lo cual la gran mayoría de las solicitudes son rechazadas, y en este caso vienen acompañadas de un requerimiento de salir del país de forma casi inmediata.


During your 90 day period, you can apply for a _prórroga de estancia_ (extension of stay) but this will only be granted if there is a good reason, e.g. illness or injury. You need to show you have the means to support yourself (similar to applying for residencia). If the application is turned down, you will have to leave Spain almost immediately.



> *¿Qué pasa si me excedo de los 90 días?*
> Pasarías a estar en situación irregular en España. De acuerdo con el artículo 53.1.a de la Ley Orgánica 4/2000, de 11 de enero, sobre derechos y libertades de los extranjeros en España y su integración social (la llamada Ley de Extranjería), esto es considerado una infracción grave de la ley, que se sanciona o con una multa (de entre 501 y 10.000 euros) o con la expulsión del territorio español, tomando en cuenta las circunstancias de hecho, y luego de un procedimiento sancionador.
> 
> Si acuerdan la expulsión, también pueden imponerte la prohibición de entrada a España por un lapso de hasta 5 años (de nuevo, dependiendo de la gravedad de la infracción).
> ...


If you are discovered to have overstayed, i.e. having been questioned by the police, there is the possibility of fine of 500 to 10,000 euros and a possible ban on returning for five years. But this is not automatic, it appears to be up to the discretion of the police. In practice, the expulsion procedure is rarely opened. As PW said, it's probably reserved for "undesirables". It's unlikely that a well-behaved tourist is going to be questioned by the police in the first place...


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

Alcalaina said:


> This whole 90 day thing has been bugging me so I've checked some legal and travel sites. I don't think I am allowed to post links, but essentially:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


If it's not a competing web site, then posting a link would be OK. I would like to see the source of this information as it contradicts what I thought to be the case.

If you don't want to post a link, can you please PM me it.


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

snikpoh said:


> Alcalaina said:
> 
> 
> > This whole 90 day thing has been bugging me so I've checked some legal and travel sites. I don't think I am allowed to post links, but essentially:
> ...


The quoted text seems to have been written by Romulo Parra, a Venezuelan lawyer living in Spain who writes a blog which seems to be aimed at his compatriots. This fits in with the sanctions listed which are in line with Schengen overstay sanctions but would not apply under current EU directives to other EU citizens as far as I understand, but I am not a lawyer.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

snikpoh said:


> If it's not a competing web site, then posting a link would be OK. I would like to see the source of this information as it contradicts what I thought to be the case.
> 
> If you don't want to post a link, can you please PM me it.


Not sure what is a "competing website" but here you go.

This is the Venezuelan lawyer Overandout mentioned:

¿Qué pasa si me quedo más de 90 días como turista en España?

The Euroresidentes site has the same information, so it presumably applies to EU citizens too.

https://www.euroresidentes.com/inmigracion/prorrogar-estancia-espana.htm


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

From the EU website:



> Some EU countries require you to report your presence to the relevant authorities (often the town hall or local police station) within a reasonable period of time after arrival and may impose a penalty, such as a fine, if you fail to do so.
> 
> In some EU countries, failure to report your presence might result in a fine, but you cannot be expelled just for this.





> During the first 3 months of your stay in your new country, as EU national, you cannot be required to apply for a residence document confirming your right to live there - although in some countries you may have to report your presence upon arrival. After 3 months in your new country, you may be required to register your residence with the relevant authority (often the town hall or local police station), and to be issued with a registration certificate.





> Reporting presence for short stays (<3 months) – Spain
> EU nationals and their family whose stay in Spain is for less than 3 months need only have with them their passport or other valid identity document.
> 
> For stays of less than 3 months, EU nationals are not required to report their presence, or register with the authorities, whatever the reasons for their stay in Spain.





> Sample story
> If on holiday, you only have to register if you stay more than 3 months
> Hans is Austrian and spends his summer holiday every year on the Italian coast. Last summer he stayed in Italy for 2 months in his own flat. He reported his presence but the Italian authorities asked him to register at the town hall as well and to prove he had sufficient means to support himself in Italy.
> 
> But Hans is entitled to stay in Italy for up to 3 months without providing any documents other than his identity card. If he stays for such a short period only, the Italian authorities can ask him to report his presence, but not to register.


More info here:

https://europa.eu/youreurope/citize...ties/registering-residence/spain/index_en.htm


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## Horlics (Sep 27, 2011)

Colin13846 said:


> Normally stay for 3 months but going to try 4 months next winter. I’m retired in good health, with regular income and will have travel insurance as well as E111 card, renting a friends apartment.
> Exceeding 90 days which I haven’t done before, any suggestions on how to stay legal?


Glad you asked?


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

So as per the referenced sites, the main difference is that although an EU citizen can be sanctioned with a fine, they cannot be expelled for non-compliance, whereas a non-EU citizen can be.

Although it is not expressly stated in the info provided, my understanding is that the temporary exclusion also cannot apply to an EU citizen.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Rabbitcat said:


> I think there's a mountain definitely being made out of a molehill on this one!!!!
> 
> At the end of the day you're not going get locked up over it- and even if they did put you away you couldn't get more than 90 days as that's all you're allowed to be there!!!!


I don't think so. A question was asked and the answers have only illustrated what may or might happen in Spain is not cut and dried and that's what life in Spain is like. No one has scare mongered and said that the OP will be deported or thrown into prison.
Good answere all round imho


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