# Mexico Protest affecting the DF airport for thanksgiving



## marthavictoria1

Hello everyone,

Just wanted your opinion on what the chances were of the airport in Mexico City being affected by the presence of the protestors in DF.


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## Longford

I doubt it, but nobody knows with certainty.


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## Hound Dog

marthavictoria1 said:


> Hello everyone,
> 
> Just wanted your opinion on what the chances were of the airport in Mexico City being affected by the presence of the protestors in DF.


Virtually no chance. We´ll be picking up my sister-in-law flying in from Paris in a couple of weeks for messing around in DF for a few days and driving on down to Oaxaca City from there and we have no doubt she and we will meet without obstruction at the DF airport but as to whether or not we´ll get out of there to our hotel downtown;, who the hell knows. There is, at present, a lot of justified unhappiness around here but that´s not neccessarily a precursor of what´s to come in the coming weeks.

The disgraceful Iguala massacre, much of the circumstances of which are, in fact unknown by most people in Mexico and elsewhere or at least being hushed-up by authorities and the national press and interrelated with countless other atrocities, many unreported, throughout Mexico, is yet to play out but this I know, we are still on our way down there from Lake Chapala and then on our way to the Chiapas Highlands. That is; unless the whole bag of worms soon explodes. For now, my heart bleeds for the families having lost loved ones in that senseless Guerrero massacre. Where do you go from there? This is just what is apparent. The rest is yet to be revealed if that is ever to come about. Mexico can be like quicksand and once the arms stop flailing and the corpse is sucked under; the sand settles back to where it started with no trace of what may or may not have happened and, more importantly; no curiosity nor follow-through by anyone of note.


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## SirRon

there should be no problems at the airport in mexico city


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## Isla Verde

SirRon said:


> there should be no problems at the airport in mexico city



I hope you're right, but where do you get your information from? Last fall when the "maestros" of the CNTE had Mexico City in an uproar, operations at the airport were disrupted a few times when the "teachers" blocked the highway leading to it.


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## citlali

Yes last year many people missed their flights as the maestros blocked all roads to the airport. I went to pick up a friend and a cab new some secret way..so I got there but I saw people on the sidewalk crying because they had not made their flight.

I also went to Tapo around 8 at night to take the same friend to a bus and all cabs were refusing passenger to centro. 

There is usually a way to get where you are going but it may take more time and a lot more efforts.

Mexico City centro was a real mess last December when we were there.


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## Isla Verde

citlali said:


> Yes last year many people missed their flights as the maestros blocked all roads to the airport. I went to pick up a friend and a cab new some secret way..so I got there but I saw people on the sidewalk crying because they had not made their flight.
> 
> I also went to Tapo around 8 at night to take the same friend to a bus and all cabs were refusing passenger to centro.
> 
> There is usually a way to get where you are going but it may take more time and a lot more efforts.
> 
> Mexico City centro was a real mess last December when we were there.


It was a big mess for most of last fall, not just December. This year the demonstrations haven't been as disruptive, and they're for a much better cause than the kvetching of the so-called "maestros".


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## marthavictoria1

Thank you all for your opinion...hopefully its business as usual


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## Hound Dog

Isla Verde said:


> It was a big mess for most of last fall, not just December. This year the demonstrations haven't been as disruptive, and they're for a much better cause than the kvetching of the so-called "maestros".


Well said, Isla. I especially liked that "...kvetching of the so-called"maestros" comment. It is hard to tell what will come of the Guerrero incident which involved a far wider región tan that small city of Iguala, Acapulco, Chilpancingo and the State of Guerrero. This sort of violence does not stop nor even diminish at state borders. Some say Guerrero is a special basket case but we live in Chiapas and often visit Oaxaca State, Tabasco, Vercruz, the Yucatán Peninsula and other parts of Southern Mexico and know that there is more here - a lot more - than meets the eye. This was a complex event involving many still unidentified predators and victims and goes (I beleive) far beyond the actions (or inactions) of the mayor of Iguala whose complicity in this event seems very unclear to me. 

Perhaps a watrshed event has occurred, we shall see.

When I was a young man back in the 60s and a student at the University of Alabama during a time of serious social turmoil, the murderous kluxer creeps bombed the 16rh Street Baptist Church in Birmingham, a center in those days for planning and implementing the then civil rights struggle for African Americans in the U.S. Deep South. They killed four innocent young girls preparing for Sunday services and that bombing by those vile imbéciles became a watershed event that inexorably changed the social context between blacks and whites that had prevailed in Alabama for a couple of hundred years or more. As it turned out, that bomb blast awakened both the white and black establishments in Alabama and was an extremely important catalyst for changes that, in the long run, were beneficial to all in a macro sense. The idiot kluxers took those Little girls´ lives but blew themselves up in the process. 

Maybe Iguala was a watershed event for Mexico but then maybe not. Who knows at this point.


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## SirRon

now i read there is a planned protest at the DF airport for nov 20th


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## ValRomx

A demonstration doesn't have to be at the airport either to disrupt plans. Earlier this year we were stuck on the Anillo Periférico for three hours due to a demonstration .... we made it to the airport and I expected that my flight had long ago departed, but my UA flight was three hours late, so todo ha ido bien.


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## marthavictoria1

Are the protestors in oaxaca as well?


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## Hound Dog

marthavictoria1 said:


> Are the protestors in oaxaca as well?


Protestors in Oaxaca City? Protest is the local hobby. We go there often and always expect some sort of trouble. That´s what makes Oaxaca, a small if somewhat disorganized and contentious, often butt-ugly slum with a splendid but unaffordable historic center so much fun, especially since we can leave when we have had enough of the place which usually takes no more than three days.. We explored that city back in 2005 as a place to live but chose San Cristóbal de Las Casas instead. The historic center is nice but the rest of the city is an unattractive hell-hole for the most part. Chaotic traffic, noisy, polluted , unattractive dwellings, an inept traffic plan on dreadful streets filed with incredibly incompetent drivers, We park our car in the center and take taxis wherever we go normally within the city not out of fear but just because who needs the aggravation of inept and rude drivers in constant competition to arrive at no place worth having gone to in the first place.


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## GARYJ65

November 20th will be chaos in Mexico, since they will try to call attention on a holiday


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## Isla Verde

GARYJ65 said:


> November 20th will be chaos in Mexico, since they will try to call attention on a holiday


Thanks for the warning, Gary. I won't make plans to go anywhere next Thursday. In years past on the Aniversario de la Revolución, there's been a big military parade in Mexico City, going from the Zócalo down Reforma (my neighborhood) and on to Chapultepec, I believe. I wonder if there will be one this year.


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## maesonna

The official holiday has been declared for Monday, the 17th, though (to produce a long weekend). I’m not sure which activities celebrating the anniversary of the Revolution will be on Monday and which might be on the actual 20th.


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## Isla Verde

maesonna said:


> The official holiday has been declared for Monday, the 17th, though (to produce a long weekend). I’m not sure which activities celebrating the anniversary of the Revolution will be on Monday and which might be on the actual 20th.


I remember that last year the parade was on the 20th, even though the official holiday was the Monday before.


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## marthavictoria1

My sister in said there is a demonstration scheduled that day at the airport on 11/20. That most activity happens during the day. I leave on thursday i will post follow up.


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## Hound Dog

My sister-in-law from Paris is flying into DF in December and our plan is to mess around there for a few days and then drive to Oaxaca City for a few days as well and then back to Lake Chapala before our annual sojourn to San Cristóbal de Las Casas for a few months. If things get too hairy we can always fly from Guadalajara to Tuxtla Gutiérrez and leave our car here at Lake Chapala since one does not really need a car in San Cristóbal, a fine walking town with combis going everywhere in town and in the surrounding vicinity all the time. Now that flights between Guadalajara and Tuxtla are under two hours nonstop, and the drive is 17 hours even with the new Arco Norte Mexico City bypass, what the hell. We don´t need to get involved in others´ internecine warfare. 

Just a few months ago we drove through Iguala, Guerrero heading from Acapulco to Taxco and had no idea that this pleasant enough looking town was a war zone. A lesson there. Watch out for randomly picking a place to settle in in Mexico or anywhere else for that matter if youdon´t know the place to which you are moving.

It´s not the bed that you sleep in that matters but the unseen snakes lurking under the covers.


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## Longford

Isla Verde said:


> I remember that last year the parade was on the 20th, even though the official holiday was the Monday before.


Unless I've misread the media reports from Mexico City, tomorrow's parade has been cancelled. Zihuatanejo has cancelled it's parade, as well ... and I think probably other communities ... because they're concerned protests or some protesters may cause harm to parade participants ... including the children who often march.


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## maesonna

I think you read that right; I see a short note in _El Universal_ confirming cancellation of the Nov. 20 parade in Mexico City. It says “presidential sources confirmed that there will be other activities to mark the anniversary of the revolution” but it doesn’t say what they might be.


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## michmex

*Nov 20th in Mexico City*

"El Universal", a Mexico city daily newspaper published a map and summary of the various "protest" marches that will occur in Mexico City tomorrow, November 20th. It will be a very good day to stay inside.

El Universal - DF - Estudiantes y organizaciones alistan movilizaciones del 20 de Noviembre


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## GARYJ65

michmex said:


> "El Universal", a Mexico city daily newspaper published a map and summary of the various "protest" marches that will occur in Mexico City tomorrow, November 20th. It will be a very good day to stay inside. El Universal - DF - Estudiantes y organizaciones alistan movilizaciones del 20 de Noviembre


I concur


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## GARYJ65

And how about the Mexican first lady video?
Since she is "la gaviota" she should be a perfect jail bird


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## red mcmurphy

GARYJ65 said:


> And how about the Mexican first lady video?
> Since she is "la gaviota" she should be a perfect jail bird


I must say, your grasp of colloquial English is impressive.


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## marthavictoria1

Thank you for the update. I leave tomorrow and will be picked up by family. I will let you know how things are. I will update on my drive into Oaxaca as well.


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## joaquinx

From the US Embassy:



> United States Embassy Mexico City
> Emergency Message for U.S. Citizens:
> Mass Demonstrations Expected in Mexico City / country of Mexico (November 20, 2014)
> 
> This message is to inform U.S. citizens that several mass demonstrations are expected in Mexico City on Thursday, November 20, 2014 to protest the disappearance of 43 students in Guerrero state. Beginning at approximately 10:00am, university students plan to blockade all avenues and boulevards leading to Mexico City’s Benito Juarez international airport such as: Circuito Interior, Blvd. Puerto Aereo, Eje 1 Norte, and Calzada Ignacio Zaragoza. Traffic to and from the airport is expected to be severely impacted by the blockades. The Embassy has advised personnel to consider changing travel plans or alternate routes to and from the airport, including travel via metro (Terminal Aerea stop on the yellow line). U.S. citizens arriving into Mexico City’s airport should expect to wait at the airport for several hours for the protest to end. If riding the metro or the city bus system, U.S. citizens should take extreme care with valuables and belongings. Passengers arriving at any airport in Mexico should take only authorized airport taxis after pre-paying the fare at one of the special well-publicized booths located inside the airport. U.S. Embassy employees in Mexico City are prohibited from using “libre” taxis (hailed on the street), and are authorized to use only “sitio” (regulated stand) taxis.
> 
> Additionally, several social organizations, unions and university students will meet at approximately 5:00pm at the “Plaza de las Tres Culturas” (Tlatelolco), the Revolution Monument, and the Independence Monument (Angel) to then march to Mexico City’s central square (Zócalo). Traffic along the planned routes, Paseo de la Reforma (where the Embassy is located), and nearby roads will be impacted by the protests.
> 
> There are reports that similar protests may take place in other cities in Mexico. U.S. citizens are urged to monitor local news outlets for information about possible protests in their area.


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## Isla Verde

joaquinx said:


> From the US Embassy:


Thanks for posting this, joaquinx. Let's hope that in a week, there won't be any demonstrations closing down the DF airport, so marthavictoria will be able to arrive safely at Benito Juárez. I don't think Mexicans will have any reason to organize protest demonstrations on Thanksgiving, a US holiday that has never caught on here.


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## maesonna

La Jornada has a timeline of minute-by-minute coverage of protests (in Spanish). As I post this at approx 12:40, the latest notes say that _grenaderos_ are protecting access to the airport and demonstrators are retreating to Avenida Oceana.


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## maesonna

Update 2:25 pm: there are some violent clashes breaking out between anarchists (or provocateurs?) who accompanied the airport demonstrators vs. police *not at the airport*, but at Circuito Interior X Zaragoza. @retioDF is tweeting updates.


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## Longford

maesonna said:


> Update 2:25 pm: there are some violent clashes breaking out between anarchists (or provocateurs?) who accompanied the airport demonstrators vs. police *not at the airport*, but at Circuito Interior X Zaragoza. @retioDF is tweeting updates.


The violence we're seeing near the airport is not part of the "official" protests which are set to begin at about 4 p.m. this afternoon. But the violence and attacks on the police only serve to dirvert attention from what should be the real focus of the protesting - the Tixtla students ... and, obviously, other complaints.


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## maesonna

People on social media are sharing photos of army trucks full of men dressed as civilians (photos supposedly taken today) – the theory is that the violent demonstrators are not merely anarchists, but provocateurs infiltrated into the demonstrators’ ranks by the government.


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## Longford

maesonna said:


> People on social media are sharing photos of army trucks full of men dressed as civilians (photos supposedly taken today) – the theory is that the violent demonstrators are not merely anarchists, but provocateurs infiltrated into the demonstrators’ ranks by the government.


I've seen the comments about this on La Jornada, also comments condemning those who've turned to violence. I suppose anything is possible ... including police paying masked people to attempt to burn other policemen via the use of molotov cocktails. It will take a bit more facts to convince me this is what's happening ... but I won't be surprised at anything we learn.


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## Isla Verde

I would love to know who the real power behind the so-called anarchists is. I've read comments that it's the government and that it's AMLO. Whoever could break the true story should get a medal, that's for sure.


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## maesonna

Or maybe more than one faction has its cadres of ‘anarchists’ that they deploy.


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## citlali

Today we got a call from a friend who told us that the center in San Cristobal was being vandalized and ransacked. She has a jewelery store in the center and the police came by to tell her to shut down everything as trouble was coming.
Meanwhile I spoke with another friend who is a vendor next to the Santo Domingo church and she told me that the march started at the market and that the thieves and looters were vandals and not teachers or students. In that part of town which has a lot of indigenous, the representatives of the market kept the thieves and vandals in check and had them return items that they had stolen. I think we need more of that going on in the marches and demonstrations 
. The indigenous have very convincing ways to take care of thieves and vandals and maybe the demonstrators should use the same methods and get rid of these trouble makers hiding in their midst.


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## Isla Verde

maesonna said:


> Or maybe more than one faction has its cadres of ‘anarchists’ that they deploy.


That's another possibilty. We should find out where they buy their "capuchas", and that might give us a clue.


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## Isla Verde

citlali said:


> Today we got a call from a friend who told us that the center in San Cristobal was being vandalized and ransacked. She has a jewelery store in the center and the police came by to tell her to shut down everything as trouble was coming.
> Meanwhile I spoke with another friend who is a vendor next to the Santo Domingo church and she told me that the march started at the market and that the thieves and looters were vandals and not teachers or students. In that part of town which has a lot of indigenous, the representatives of the market kept the thieves and vandals in check and had them return items that they had stolen. I think we need more of that going on in the marches and demonstrations
> . The indigenous have very convincing ways to take care of thieves and vandals and maybe the demonstrators should use the same methods and get rid of these trouble makers hiding in their midst.


Great idea, citlali. Vandals and thieves will always take advantage of social unrest to do their dirty deeds.


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## Longford

Isla Verde said:


> Great idea, citlali. Vandals and thieves will always take advantage of social unrest to do their dirty deeds.


And if it's the "vandals and thieves" who are marching, and not many others?


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## Isla Verde

Longford said:


> And if it's the "vandals and thieves" who are marching, and not many others?


Considering how many thousands of people have been marching today in Mexico City, if they were mostly vandals and thieves, the city would be in flames by now. I don't know what proportion they were of the protesters in San Cristóbal.


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## citlali

Longford my friends are merchants and they told me it was not the students and maestros who were doing the looting but people who marched with them. I do not think you can get closer to the situation as they are since they were looted and the thieves had to return the merchandise.

That is what I was told by two different people one merchant in he center and one merchant in my barrio which is were he march started. When the march started the thieves tried but they were stopped and by the time they got to the cener it got nasty. I do not know anything more. 
The one for the center called me because she was worried about my house. The other from my barrio called me to tell me the house was ok..

I am hearing that the marche was peaceful and that a small number of people are causing the problems and I believe it.


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## ojosazules11

maesonna said:


> People on social media are sharing photos of army trucks full of men dressed as civilians (photos supposedly taken today) – the theory is that the violent demonstrators are not merely anarchists, but provocateurs infiltrated into the demonstrators’ ranks by the government.


In case some are thinking that claims that the violent elements of the protests may be _agents provocateurs/agentes provocadores_ planted by government security forces (police or army) are venturing into conspiracy theory territory, here are a couple of links to articles outlining probable use of these provocative agents in 2012 and 2013. (The articles are in Spanish, with apologies to those who don’t read Spanish.)

La Jornada: El agente provocador

MÃ©xico: acusan a la policÃ*a de infiltrar provocadores en la protesta contra PeÃ±a Nieto â€“ RT


And here is a somewhat dense article from the Journal of the Institute of the Federal Judiciary (an entity of the Mexican Government), titled “Clandestine Agents and Due Process”. 
I’m not going to translate the whole article (!), but on pages 258-259 it states that since August 2009 reforms to the Penal Code
* “gave legal status to a new investigative technique: that of the agente provocador (provocative agent), contained in Article 180 bis of the Federal Code of Penal Proceedings.”*

Link to full article:
http://www.ijf.cjf.gob.mx/publicaciones/revista/28/Los_agentes_clandestinos.pdf


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## Isla Verde

If the vandals and thugs are "agentes provocadores", their actions don't seem to have dimmed the enthusiasm of the legitimate protestors. The second article offers no proof to the assertion that the violent protestors at the installation of Peña Nieto were each paid $300 to participate. That sounds like sloppy reporting to me.


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## ojosazules11

Isla Verde said:


> If the vandals and thugs are "agentes provocadores", their actions don't seem to have dimmed the enthusiasm of the legitimate protestors.


My concern is not that the provocateurs will dim the enthusiasm of legitimate protestors. It is that if the state deliberately provokes violence, that violence can then be used to justify the use of force by the government to re-establish order, thereby having the excuse to shut down the non-violent protest as well. This is not the stuff of fiction, it's a tactic that has been used in different contexts in many parts of the world. President Peña Nieto said shortly after arriving back in Mexico this past weekend that he "aspires and hopes" that the government will not have to go to the extreme of needing to use public force to re-establish order. I will not make any interpretive comment about that statement, as he is the President of Mexico and I wish to remain respectful. It did make me a bit shivery, though.


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## Longford

The police in Mexico City have shown remarkable restraint considering some of the violence directed their way, and against property in the D.F. It's long past the time the police take-off the soft gloves and confront the violence ... or it will only continue. The violent acts have nothing to do with the Tixtla students. Nothing, except it's providing an opportunity for domestic terrorists. As for news sources, readers might want to broaden their sources of information beyond just _La Jornada_, which almost always is the voice of radical left viewpoints in Mexico. Read _La Jornada_, and read and watch as many other sources as you can in the search for balanced information.


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## citlali

yes the police should arrest the people that are destroying property and stealing and then we may find if these peoples are vandals and thieves and or working for the governemnt, of course they could arrest the wrong people....


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## Isla Verde

citlali said:


> yes the police should arrest the people that are destroying property and stealing and then we may find if these peoples are vandals and thieves and or working for the governemnt, of course they could arrest the wrong people....



As appears to be happening in Mexico City, if a groups of 40 people are vandalizing property, maybe two are arrested and then set free. In general, it seems as though the encapuchados are given free rein to do their business, with the police stepping after the damage has been done and most of the culprits have gotten away scot free. Things like this have also been happening on the UNAM campus.


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## GARYJ65

I'm watching the news, what a mess they made
Thugs, thieves, gangsters, looters, all of them should be shoot on site


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## PanamaJack

GARYJ65 said:


> I'm watching the news, what a mess they made
> Thugs, thieves, gangsters, looters, all of them should be shoot on site


That's a nice thought Gary just shoot and kill them all and fix the problem. Strange Gary how you are one of the few Mexicans by birth on this thread and promoting the murder of your own people?


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## maesonna

According to this Associated Press report on the CBC website,


> Whenever masked protesters tried to join Thursday's march, demonstrators shouted them down with chants of "No violence!" and "Off with the masks!"


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## citlali

That is exactly what people marching need to do. When the indigenous merchants went after the looters yesterday they (the looters) left the area


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## Longford

PanamaJack said:


> That's a nice thought Gary just shoot and kill them all and fix the problem. Strange Gary how you are one of the few Mexicans by birth on this thread and promoting the murder of your own people?


I would describe such a stong response suggested by Gary, by people whose businesses are being vandalized or burned, property being damaged and life put in jeopardy by people who seek to injure or kill them ... as _self defense_.


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## Longford

maesonna said:


> People on social media are sharing photos of army trucks full of men dressed as civilians (photos supposedly taken today) – the theory is that the violent demonstrators are not merely anarchists, but provocateurs infiltrated into the demonstrators’ ranks by the government.












Source: Identifican en redes a encapuchados, antes de la marcha en DF - Aristegui Noticias


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## Justina

Longford said:


> Source: Identifican en redes a encapuchados, antes de la marcha en DF - Aristegui Noticias


Mexico has a long history of using provateurs. I certainly welcome the idea of the real demonstrators demanding that they take off their covering.


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## maesonna

Longford said:


> I would describe such a stong response suggested by Gary, by people whose businesses are being vandalized or burned, property being damaged and life put in jeopardy by people who seek to injure or kill them ... as _self defense_.


NOB-style self-defence: shoot somebody who makes you feel threatened, without trial or legal protection for either side. Yes, we see how well that works in the U.S.


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## SirRon

Longford said:


> Source: Identifican en redes a encapuchados, antes de la marcha en DF - Aristegui Noticias


I am speechless, sounds like something that would happen NOB, but smart enough not to get caught

hard to deny those photo's


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## Longford

maesonna said:


> NOB-style self-defence: shoot somebody who makes you feel threatened, without trial or legal protection for either side. Yes, we see how well that works in the U.S.


Somebody breaks down the door to your business, weapons in hand and sacks the business; or breaks-into your office, weapons in hand and burns it; or breaks-into your property and burns a dozen of your vehicles; someone points a RPG at you and fires an explosive your way, or throws a Molotiv cocktail which hits you and your begin to burn. Go ahead ... talk the talk. Then put yourselves in the shoes of those attacked for no good reason ... and learn to walk the walk. Some Canadians might be accustomed to running and hiding, but most other folks on the planet have the *alls to defend themselves.


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## red mcmurphy

Longford said:


> Somebody breaks down the door to your business, weapons in hand and sacks the business; or breaks-into your office, weapons in hand and burns it; or breaks-into your property and burns a dozen of your vehicles; someone points a RPG at you and fires an explosive your way, or throws a Molotiv cocktail which hits you and your begin to burn. Go ahead ... talk the talk. Then put yourselves in the shoes of those attacked for no good reason ... and learn to walk the walk. Some Canadians might be accustomed to running and hiding, but most other folks on the planet have the *alls to defend themselves.


So you would also agree then,that when the police come for your family members, you would also be justified in shooting them in self-defense? If you are picked up on a pretense and held against your will, roughed up a little, maybe a few shocks to your balls, you should also be justified in seeking your own form of justice?


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## marthavictoria1

hello everyone I wanted to post an update. I arrived safely on Nov 20 at midnight in DC airport there was no activity. I was back at the airport on 11/21 at 8 am for a flight to Cancun everything is peaceful. Yesterday we drove around downtown everything is normal.


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## AlanMexicali

SirRon said:


> I am speechless, sounds like something that would happen NOB, but smart enough not to get caught
> 
> hard to deny those photo's


We watched this live on TV and it took about 25 minutes for the police to clear the plaza. The fires from them throwing the Molotiv coctails were not close to anyone and no one got burned by them. I saw about 8 to 10 fires from them.


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## Isla Verde

AlanMexicali said:


> We watched this live on TV and it took about 25 minutes for the police to clear the plaza. The fires from them throwing the Molotiv coctails were not close to anyone and no one got burned by them. I saw about 8 to 10 fires from them.


I see. So it's OK to throw Molotov cocktails if your aim is poor?


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## Longford

Isla Verde said:


> I see. So it's OK to throw Molotov cocktails if your aim is poor?


Molotov cocktails were thrown at police during the demonstration near the airport earlier in the day of the November 20 larger protest marches which terminated in La Plaza de la Constitución ... after or at the end of which Molotov cocktails and other projectiles were thrown at the National Palace building. During the violence near the airport several Molotov cocktails struck police whose clothes were on fire and photos of that and video of that appeared in the local media. Also during the airport-area violence, various media photographed makeshift RPG-like projectile launchers lobbing explosives/projectiles at the police.


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## Isla Verde

Longford said:


> Molotov cocktails were thrown at police during the demonstration near the airport earlier in the day of the November 20 larger protest marches which terminated in La Plaza de la Constitución ... after or at the end of which Molotov cocktails and other projectiles were thrown at the National Palace building. During the violence near the airport several Molotov cocktails struck police whose clothes were on fire and photos of that and video of that appeared in the local media. Also during the airport-area violence, various media photographed makeshift RPG-like projectile launchers lobbing explosives/projectiles at the police.


It looks like you and Alan saw different demonstrations on TV. 

Today there will be multiple demonstrations in Mexico City. I'm lucky I don't have to go to work and have other obligations that will force me to leave my neighborhood, because getting around the center of the city today will be difficult (and possibly dangerous) if not impossible.


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## Longford

Isla Verde said:


> Today there will be multiple demonstrations in Mexico City. I'm lucky I don't have to go to work and have other obligations that will force me to leave my neighborhood, because getting around the center of the city today will be difficult (and possibly dangerous) if not impossible.


Here's a local article about the march, with a map of the route:

El Universal - Nación - Se coordinan SSPDF y PF para "contener" marcha

There are reports that many businesses along the route of the demonstration/march will close some time before, until after the protest has passed.


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## citlali

We have a choice of arriving in Mexico City on Friday or Saturday, right now Friday looks better , right?

Saturday I need to pick up my sister at the airport hope I can go through..oh well eventually it works out.

At least we are not staying near the Zocalo like we did last year.


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## AlanMexicali

Isla Verde said:


> It looks like you and Alan saw different demonstrations on TV.
> 
> Today there will be multiple demonstrations in Mexico City. I'm lucky I don't have to go to work and have other obligations that will force me to leave my neighborhood, because getting around the center of the city today will be difficult (and possibly dangerous) if not impossible.







It looks like to me the police were stamping out the fires at the aeropuerto march 20th. and none actually hit them.


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## Isla Verde

AlanMexicali said:


> DISTURBIOS EN AEROPUERTO MÉXICO DF ANARQUISTAS Vs POLICIAS 20 NOVIEMBRE 2014 MARCHA VIOLENCIA - YouTube
> 
> It looks like to me the police were stamping out the fires at the aeropuerto march 20th. and none actually hit them.


I don't care if the idiot anarquistas weren't trying to hit anyone with their misnamed missiles - the point is that they could have hurt someone. There should be no place for behavior like this in demonstrations and marches of this kind if the demonstrators want their message to be taken seriously. Actions like the throwing of Molotov cocktails take the attention of the public away from the cause they are marching for and are totally counter-productive, in my not-so-humble opinion!


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## joaquinx

The police used Nerf-bats to drive off the protesters and the protester responded by throwing marshmallows at the police.


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## AlanMexicali

Isla Verde said:


> I don't care if the idiot anarquistas weren't trying to hit anyone with their misnamed missiles - the point is that they could have hurt someone. There should be no place for behavior like this in demonstrations and marches of this kind if the demonstrators want their message to be taken seriously. Actions like the throwing of Molotov cocktails take the attention of the public away from the cause they are marching for and are totally counter-productive, in my not-so-humble opinion!


Of course it distracts from their cause and we were discussing the photo of the provateur in the army truck and the photo of him throwing a Molotov cocktail in the Zocalo on Nov. 20th., weren´t we.

Our local TV channel reported the scene at the Zocalo live on Adela the Foro News Network nightly program and it ran into overtime.

I tired to report what I know without commenting on it being right or wrong. Who in thier right mind would see it as productive. Not me.


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## lhpdiver

I wish some moderator would move all of these dissident gibberish threads off to some new sub-forum. Maybe call it 'Disgruntled in Mexico'.

For perspective...
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-12-01/president-obama-fixes-ferguson


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## Isla Verde

lhpdiver said:


> I wish some moderator would move all of these dissident gibberish threads off to some new sub-forum. Maybe call it 'Disgruntled in Mexico'.


There's nothing wrong with a bit of healthy dissent on the forum, which is about life in Mexico. Right now life in Mexico includes marches and demonstrations, which have left some of us (especially those living in places where all the civil disobedience is taking place) less than happy right now. Let the discussion (with occasional "discusiones") continue, as long as it remains civil, which your use of "gibberish" is not, by the way.


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## AlanMexicali

Isla Verde said:


> There's nothing wrong with a bit of healthy dissent on the forum, which is about life in Mexico. Right now life in Mexico includes marches and demonstrations, which have left some of us (especially those living in places where all the civil disobedience is taking place) less than happy right now. Let the discussion (with occasional "discusiones") continue, as long as it remains civil, which your use of "gibberish" is not, by the way.


Exactly. If anyone can add facts/real information and corrections to any misinformation to what the many marches are actually doing and possibly might do in the future then it is of benefit to all who are interested in this turn of events happening the last 2 1/2 months in Mexico. This is news and worth the space. IMO


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## Isla Verde

joaquinx said:


> The police used Nerf-bats to drive off the protesters and the protester responded by throwing marshmallows at the police.


Were those flaming marshmallows?


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## Isla Verde

AlanMexicali said:


> Of course it distracts from their cause and we were discussing the photo of the provateur in the army truck and the photo of him throwing a Molotov cocktail in the Zocalo on Nov. 20th., weren´t we.
> 
> Our local TV channel reported the scene at the Zocalo live on Adela the Foro News Network nightly program and it ran into overtime.
> 
> I tired to report what I know without commenting on it being right or wrong. Who in thier right mind would see it as productive. Not me.


And not me! Sorry I thought that you thought otherwise.


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## lhpdiver

Isla Verde said:


> There's nothing wrong with a bit of healthy dissent on the forum, which is about life in Mexico. Right now life in Mexico includes marches and demonstrations, which have left some of us (especially those living in places where all the civil disobedience is taking place) less than happy right now. Let the discussion (with occasional "discusiones") continue, as long as it remains civil, which your use of "gibberish" is not, by the way.


I'm not a Mexican citizen yet - but I really look forward to the day.
If my comment was not civil I hope it was not rude - is there a better word than gibberish - bantering (or ranting) perhaps ?
I was tempted to close my comment with 'Mexico - love it or leave it'.

(It is cute how ya'll like each other so much  )


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## Isla Verde

lhpdiver said:


> I'm not a Mexican citizen yet - but I really look forward to the day.
> If my comment was not civil I hope it was not rude - is there a better word than gibberish - bantering (or ranting) perhaps ?
> I was tempted to close my comment with 'Mexico - love it or leave it'.
> 
> (It is cute how ya'll like each other so much  )


Gibberish is a word with a negative meaning: 



> *gibberish*
> 
> If you describe someone's words or ideas as gibberish, you mean that they do not make any sense. n-uncount (=nonsense)
> When he was talking to a girl he could hardly speak, and when he did speak he talked gibberish. gibberish definition | English dictionary for learners | Reverso


Something between "bantering" and "ranting" would have been a better choice of words.

"Mexico, love it or leave" would not be a helpful comment. Surely, we can love a place without seeing it through rose-colored glasses.


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## Isla Verde

citlali said:


> We have a choice of arriving in Mexico City on Friday or Saturday, right now Friday looks better , right?
> 
> Saturday I need to pick up my sister at the airport hope I can go through..oh well eventually it works out.
> 
> At least we are not staying near the Zocalo like we did last year.


I just saw a short article in Excelsior online that the CNTE is planning a big demonstration in Mexico City on Saturday the 6th. These so-called teachers have a reputation for being rowdy and disruptive, and no doubt the ineffective Mancera has no strategy in place for dealing with them. This is the same union that occupied the Zócalo in the DF for several months last year and caused huge losses to local businesses in the downtown area. It's obvious they're trying to get on the Ayotzinapa bandwagon and get back in the national headlines. 

CNTE se manifestará en el DF el 6 de diciembre | Excélsior


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## citlali

Thans I saw that, I just hope I can get to the aiport pick up my sister at 5pm and get back to the hotel.. Last year getting to our hotel near the Zocalo was a nightmare so this time we are staying in Col San Rafael..we will see, at this point it is just wait and see.
We hav to pick up a kid the following Saturday and leaave for Puebla where the car wil be and then on to Oaxaca. maybe we should take the old beat up car..


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## Isla Verde

citlali said:


> Thans I saw that, I just hope I can get to the aiport pick up my sister at 5pm and get back to the hotel.. Last year getting to our hotel near the Zocalo was a nightmare so this time we are staying in Col San Rafael..we will see, at this point it is just wait and see.
> We hav to pick up a kid the following Saturday and leaave for Puebla where the car wil be and then on to Oaxaca. maybe we should take the old beat up car..


Let's hope that the time you have to leave for the airport, the teachers will have gone home or at least left the streets. If they don't try to block the highway to the airport (like they did last fall), you should be ok. Col. San Rafael is nowhere near the usual protest hot spots unless your hotel is near the Periferico.


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## citlali

I have to be at the airport around 5pm and the demonstration will start around 4pm so not too good. Does the metro stop at the airport? I can go by metro if it does and get back by cab. I do not think will be far from Reforma but San Rafael is out of the way so we should be ok.


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## Isla Verde

citlali said:


> I have to be at the airport around 5pm and the demonstration will start around 4pm so not too good. Does the metro stop at the airport? I can go by metro if it does and get back by cab. I do not think will be far from Reforma but San Rafael is out of the way so we should be ok.


For some reason, this year a lot of the marches and so on start late, around 4 pm. There is a Metro station at the airport, though I'm not sure exactly how far it is from the airline terminals. It's on line 5 and is called Terminal Aérea. Here's a map of the entire system: 
http://mexicometro.org/Mexico_City_Metro_and_Tren_Ligero_map.pdf


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## citlali

Thanks the hotel is near Cosme on line 2 so I will have to transfer a couple of times to get there but I have nothing else to do..


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## regwill

citlali said:


> I have to be at the airport around 5pm and the demonstration will start around 4pm so not too good. Does the metro stop at the airport? I can go by metro if it does and get back by cab. I do not think will be far from Reforma but San Rafael is out of the way so we should be ok.


Citlali , if your sister is flying into terminal 1 ; it is about a 5-10 minute walk to the Metro , if terminal 2 ; you take a shuttle bus from the airport to the Metro . I hope that helps .


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## Isla Verde

regwill said:


> Citlali , if your sister is flying into terminal 1 ; it is about a 5-10 minute walk to the Metro , if terminal 2 ; you take a shuttle bus from the airport to the Metro . I hope that helps .


Thanks for posting this useful information.


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## citlali

Thanks. Do you kow which is the international terminal , She arrives on KLM from Amsterdam. I never can remember which is which..

Internet is amazing ..it is terminal 1..


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## Longford

Isla Verde said:


> Actions like the throwing of Molotov cocktails take the attention of the public away from the cause they are marching for and are totally counter-productive, in my not-so-humble opinion!


Not all that far from where you live, in the Zona Rosa/Colonia Juarez ... a large group of terrorists (reported to be 30+) smashed windows of some banks and other businesses, tossed Molotov cocktails which caused fires in the bank(s), etc. Other participants in the protest march are reported to have shouted various insults at the violent gangs - condemning their actions. 

Banks are typically have armed guards stationed at them when open, and sometimes when closed ... and I don't think many people would have been upset if those being violent were shot. At some point the government of the D.F. needs to find a way to step forward and protect the community.


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## Isla Verde

Longford said:


> Not all that far from where you live, in the Zona Rosa/Colonia Juarez ... a large group of terrorists (reported to be 30+) smashed windows of some banks and other businesses, tossed Molotov cocktails which caused fires in the bank(s), etc. Other participants in the protest march are reported to have shouted various insults at the violent gangs - condemning their actions.
> 
> Banks are typically have armed guards stationed at them when open, and sometimes when closed ... and I don't think many people would have been upset if those being violent were shot. At some point the government of the D.F. needs to find a way to step forward and protect the community.


There's something odd about the way the DF government reacts to the "encapuchados" during demonstrations. They always show up at the end when the peaceful demonstrators are dispersing. Why aren't the police ready to deal with them before they start smashing things and throwing Molotov cocktails? By the time the cops get into action the "anarchists" have gotten away, and they end up arresting people who had nothing to do with the violence. It's as though they were told not to mess with the trouble-makers. Maybe they are "infiltrados" sent by the powers-that-be to make the demonstrators look bad.


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## Longford

Isla Verde said:


> Why aren't the police ready to deal with them before they start smashing things and throwing Molotov cocktails?


My first thought: the Police personnel are cowards.
My second thought: the PRD leftist government has, since assuming political power in the D.F., always gone soft on demonstrators. Such folks are almost always their political base of support.
Last thought: though I haven't seen/read enough to form an opinion and I don't easily buy-into conspiracy theories, there's always the possibility the terrorists are, in some instances, government agents.


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## Isla Verde

Longford said:


> My second thought: the PRD leftist government has, since assuming political power in the D.F., always gone soft on demonstrators. Such folks are almost always their political base of support.


I agree with you, but there's one thing wrong with your reasoning: the mostly peaceful demonstrators are the vast majority of the marchers, and they don't like the agitators at all. So how does keeping hands off the _encapuchados_ help win votes for the PRD?


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## Longford

Isla Verde said:


> I agree with you, but there's one thing wrong with your reasoning: the mostly peaceful demonstrators are the vast majority of the marchers, and they don't like the agitators at all. So how does keeping hands off the _encapuchados_ help win votes for the PRD?


I don't have a good answer to your question.


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## citlali

The whole thing is very strange. My guess is that this type of situation is very volatile and the police is old not todo anything for fear that innocent people be harmed. The last thing the government need is more bad publicity.
People as a rule hate the police but crowds are unpredictable. What a mess this situation is, I wish they would get a few encapuchados and publish their identity and connection to whatever group. Maybe they are just good for nothing people who love murder and mayhem and hey should be locked up once and for all.
In San Crisobal when they started near the market, the market people took care of them and they moved on so they are cowards as well.


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## maesonna

citlali said:


> Thanks. Do you know which is the international terminal , She arrives on KLM from Amsterdam. I never can remember which is which..


Yes; you already found out which terminal you need, but for anyone who wants to know for future reference, both terminal 1 and 2 have both international and domestic flights.
Every time I fly or meet someone, I have to look it up again.


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## maesonna

For future reference for anyone who might need to know, an alternate way to get to Terminal 2 from the metro is to get off at Pantitlán station and walk westward on Eje 1 Norte (go about 300 meters, then turn in to the terminal, which is about another 100 meters from the avenue into the terminal). 

It might be a little more walking but not much, and would probably not take longer, because if you come via Terminal 1, you still have to walk 100 or 200 meters from the Terminal Área metro station to the Terminal 1 building, and then find the shuttle bus and wait for the next bus.


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## Hound Dog

[_QUOTE=maesonna;5889810]Yes; you already found out which terminal you need, but for anyone who wants to know for future reference, both terminal 1 and 2 have both international and domestic flights.
Every time I fly or meet someone, I have to look it up again.[/QUOTE]_


Well, maesonna, thanks for the information. We'll be picking up my sister-in-law from France when she arrives at the Mexico City airport in a couple of days on a non-stop from Paris. Sincé things in the metrópolis seem to be becoming unglued; I hope to still have retained the mobility to have greeted her at the gate. If not, buses to Lake Chapala with ham sandwiches and clean bathrooms are hanging around here and there.


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## citlali

Darling how did you get a non stop from Paris out Amsterdam and KLM, sometimes I wonder if you listen to what I tell you...

Yes the terminal thing is always confusing to me since I do not remember where I land and never pay attention, I figure I can always find out when I get there but this time it may be nice to know.
Good to know too that both terminal have international flights that way it will keep me guessing every time.


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