# Citizen's Card



## Verinia (Apr 6, 2012)

New legislation Regarding tourist letting licences (Alojamento Local) require you to apply online using your citizen's card as identification. We are tax residents here, Uk citizens, so I don't think we are eligible for the citizen's card. Is there any kind of EU citizen's card or any way round this or will all non citizens have to try their luck at the camara?


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## canoeman (Mar 3, 2011)

*Only *Portuguese Citizens and some Brazilians are entitled to the Citizen Card as a replacement of 3 other ID Cards

Camara's must accept your National ID, Passport etc especially as AL Licence is *not restricted* to Portuguese Citizens but is a requirement for anyone wishing to do let holiday accommodation whether they are Residents or not

Sure your not confusing with Digital Signature which is now available to Non Nationals, Residents or non Residents although a friend who has tried to get one monthly has been told it will Jan 2015 

Also their does seem to be a lot of scaremongering again with the latest amendments by people who should know better


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## Verinia (Apr 6, 2012)

I think I mean a digital signature.The place to apply for an AL licence now is here : https://www.portaldaempresa.pt/cve/...EDAUTCOD=88c316ed-867c-43d9-a55c-6516b61566c5
You have the option of using a citizen's card, a digital signature from another country ID, with no option for UK citizens or a notary or solicitor's digital signature, which means that you can't really apply online if you are from the UK at the moment without a solicitor or notary fee. Some friends have been to a camara to do it paper wise and told they can't, it is now all done on line, so they have a problem. We ourselves have the licence but had to pay 25 euros to a notary to get a Portuguese citizen to do the digital signature bit. This seems wrong to me and a glitch in the system. They need to sort it out. You ought to be able to do the process yourself if others can.


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## canoeman (Mar 3, 2011)

UK will also be an issue with ID because it has no formal ID apart from a Passport.

The link you provided is only to verify a Citizen Card as verification of your Identity and currently NON Portuguese Nationals Resident or Non Resident cannot have a Citizen Card.

I also don't think that the portal de empresa site is the correct place to apply for AL Licence, legislation states this is should be handled by the Camara you come under, they are responsible in first instance for application, granting, monitoring and informing Tourism Portugal

When the law Lei No 37/2014 is fully implemented then you will be able to get a Digital Signature as I've reported, maybe it's just my friends Conservatoria who now say Jan 2015, why not try yours and see if they will give you one now

Afraid this type of attitude is Camaras singing from different Hymn sheets, my Camara and 4 others I know accept paper AL applications with zero issue as they are well aware that currently Digital Signatures/Citizen Cards are only available to Portuguese Nationals and yet the requirement is for everyone who rents/lets/B&B holiday accommodation to apply and have a AL Licence. 

Think your issue is Loule Camara who also insist on a "Fire/plan certificate" when the law clearly states it only applies to +50 person occupancy, Portuguese attitude to a tick box if it's there it needs a tick not common sense


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## Verinia (Apr 6, 2012)

Thanks Canoeman, although I think I might have confused you! The link I gave was a later follow through from this link Portal da Empresa CVE » pt which, as I understand it is the place you have to register for the AL licence since November 26th under the new law, but I could be wrong. I think later on in the procedure you can choose a drop down box on which camara etc. But what is more worrying is Loule council insisting it is no longer anything to do with them and everything has to be done online. I am going to try and get a digital signature and see if I can. We paid a notary 25 euros so someone could digitally sign all our scanned paper documents for the AL licence on our behalf and it is this I find wrong, as it makes EU citizens unequal.The rest of the bureaucracy I do understand as I think the industry does need to be regulated. The fire visit we had for the ficha technica was actually quite useful and made us out smoke alarms in the bedrooms.


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## canoeman (Mar 3, 2011)

I make the point that empressa portal can only currently be used for filing various things by a Citizen ID at the moment this is only available in around 8 EU countries.

The amendments didn't set in stone that applications should only be in an electronic format but stated the *possibility of registration of establishments local accommodation through the Electronic Single Window yes Portugal does need to get certain things in line before going live but I applaud their introduction of the Balcoes as it certainly speeds up lots of processes and reduces time and costs, looking at Loule's section on empressa portal don't think you'd have had half the hassle or costs that you ended up with if it had been available at your time of application.
Do you want a copy of law to take to Conservatoria with you? you only need a Passport & email address to apply*


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## canoeman (Mar 3, 2011)

Verina the amendments of this year re Fire Certification spell out even more clearly Loule have interpreted original act incorrectly, personally I've always called in a local company for advice and adopted a more is better attitude rather than "just enough" but as we've made the point in our collaboration on AL Licensing whatever extra you put in that is not a legal requirement like Carbon Monoxide detectors become your responsibility should they fail and cause harm to others something worth remembering 

Article 13
Safety requirements
1 - Without prejudice to the next paragraph, local accommodation establishments must comply with the safety rules against fire, in accordance the provisions of Decree Law No. 220/2008 of 12 November, and the constant technical regulation of Ordinance No 1532/2008 of 29 December.
2 - The preceding paragraph *shall not apply* to local accommodation establishments that have the *capacity less than 10 users*, which must have:
a) fire extinguisher and blanket accessible to users;
b) first aid equipment accessible to users;
c) an indication of the national emergency number (112) in a visible place users.


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## canoeman (Mar 3, 2011)

Again Verinia if yourself or friends are still hitting this brick wall with Loule apart from the Law still does not state Electronic filing is mandatory Article 31 Clause 2 states
"2 - When, for reasons of unavailability electronic platforms, it is not possible compliance of the preceding paragraph, communications can during using other digital media, or use of paper, being granted a registration number provisional territorial jurisdiction by the town hall."

ok I accept that this relates more to a computer not working but you could argue that as a Non Portuguese we are unable to get a Citizen Card or currently a Digital Signature then this should apply, personally I'd be reaching for the Complaint Book and report their refusal to accept paper applications for those that it is impossible to make Electronic Applications.

We've been discussing for a few months whether to include Electronic Filing in our AL Info pack and decided until this Digital Signature issue is sorted out then it's pointless as it just will raise more confusion plus that the Camara's we've have direct dealings with accept paper


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