# Odometer tampering on used cars in Dubai



## fadhal huzoori

Hello Dubaites,

I have been doing some used car hunting lately and was stuck on a specific factor - odometer fraud. This is going to be my first used car and i was looking for '09 '10 models and came across some vechicle with very low milage, say 40k kms? Isn't that relatively low for a 5 yr old vehicle? I understand if it lady driven, rare driven, carefully driven blah blah but what if it is an odometer fraud? considering these sellers aint the 1st owners.

I was jus wondering if running the vehicle by Al shamil car inspection would help. or does anyone here had similar situation or does any know some honest private garages - I have heard people telling not to trust mechanics.


thanks pals and sorry for my bad english


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## saraswat

The shamil inspection won't really help with detecting odometer fraud. For older (non-digitized) vehicles yes, but for the years you are looking no.

Have the car inspected at the dealership/authorized service center for the particular brand you are looking into. They can tell if things have been altered. A mechanic would be able to tell also, by inspecting the wear & tear of certain areas of the car, but then it should be a garage you know and trust. 

I just went through the same thing and had mine checked at the dealership, more expensive but guaranteed results....


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## Berliner

I had a 2006 Accord which I bought last year and it had done only 38000kms.

My current daily driver, a 2005 Mazda 3, has only done 40,000kms. 

Both cars were driven by housewives who rarely ever drove them. Such cars can be found, although they are very rare. 

You can usually tell by the service history if they mileage is real and also by how the car looks on the interior (are the seats all worn out or do they look as if they have been barely sat on). 

I have bought and sold 7 cars in 2013 (love changing my daily driver and my fun car) and, knock on wood, I have never had any issues with any of them.


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## Budw

Odometer fraud is very common here. Many used car dealerships are masters in transforming a high millage car into a low millage lady driven car. They repaint the bumpers, clean / resurface the wheels, detail the interior, and if needed reduce the meter reading.... all part of the standard package.

But on the positive side, the obsession of buying a low millage car verses high millage is overrated. High millage cars can be in an excellent condition, sometimes in an even better condition than a low milage car. What matters is the testing of the car; if it is a solid car, millage is not so important. On the extreme side, I remember my good old 1988 Ford Crown Victoria that was imported from Saudi at 400000km. and was still going strong at 525000km when I sold it in 1998. All I did was giving it the 3000km changes


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## Cocorico

digital odometers s are way easier to change than the mechanical ones. Right cable and and software and off course the security code for the car from the car manufacture. this procedure was implemented for authorized dealers to perform Cluster repairs.. there are so many different cable/applications available for most cars out there to purchase online. 

Good news mileage is recorded in few other modules other than cluster and ECU which the aftermarket cable won't be able to change!! 

when in doubt, you can take the car to authorize dealer and they sure can verify the km.


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## Chocoya

Now that everything is digital and computerised it is, in fact, very simple to reduce the kilometres and what's more, inexpensive. So, buyer beware!!!!! It is standard practice here.


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## rsinner

I have two cars at the moment and in AD. On my office commute car, I am chalking up less than 250 km a month (3000 km a year) - the commute is pretty short. On my other car, it is about 10K km a year (including the occasional trip to Dubai).
Even when in Dubai when I had just one car and the commute was longer (20+ km each way) I was chalking about 12-15K km a year. 
So a low mileage car is not necessarily a fraud but as everyone else has said be careful!


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## Budw

Chocoya said:


> Now that everything is digital and computerized it is, in fact, very simple to reduce the kilometres and what's more, inexpensive. So, buyer beware!!!!! It is standard practice here.


Thankfully, it is extremely easy to find out if the odometer has been tampered with. If anyone has reprogrammed the cluster, it will be visible to the agent when they connect their diagnostic equipment. It is impossible to delete the traces from the car computer systems; no matter what the criminals do...


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## Chocoya

Budw said:


> Thankfully, it is extremely easy to find out if the odometer has been tampered with. If anyone has reprogrammed the cluster, it will be visible to the agent when they connect their diagnostic equipment. It is impossible to delete the traces from the car computer systems; no matter what the criminals do...


Are you sure - if they can tell, no one seems to bother about it - even the dealerships. It is a daily occurrence here from what I have heard.


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## saraswat

Although I haven't ever had a situation where they (dealership) came back to me saying the detected it, I do believe they are able to know...


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## Budw

Chocoya said:


> Are you sure - if they can tell, no one seems to bother about it - even the dealerships. It is a daily occurrence here from what I have heard.


The official dealers will tell you; Odometer resetting is unfortunately happening with the less reputed car dealers. An official agent is not willingly risking their reputation and relation with the vendor by playing around with odometer settings, or supporting it by selling a car blindly that had the meter reading changed by someone. 

Its just not possible to hide; it pops up on any report that the diagnostic system produces!


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## Byja

Hold on, isn't service record history kept on a central database for a vendor?

That is, if a car goes for a regular service or a repair to an authorized service center, they should keep service data along with mileage at the moment.

Back home, if I wanted to buy a used car, all I had to do was to give chassis number to an authorized service center, and they tell me the date and mileage of the last service done on that car.

Don't know if it's same here, but you could give it a try.


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## Stevesolar

Hi,
At last, a subject on the forum that i really, really know a lot about!
I worked for one of the biggest vehicle diagnostic manufacturers for more than 15 years - they manufactured the dealer tools for companies such as Mercedes, BMW, Peugeot,Citroen, Renault, Mitsubishi, Fiat etc.
On vehicles with digital odometers it is relatively easy to change the mileage through the OBD port with a special cable and software.
However, depending on the vehicle manufacturer will depend on how successful, long lasting and detectable it is.
Some vehicles (BMW) for instance, store mileage data in more than one of the vehicles ECUs as well as on both keys. This is therefore easy for the dealer to detect, with the key reader or the diagnostic tool.
On others, you can change the mileage and no trace is kept - i am not prepared to name these brands in an open forum - as in my former job, i had access to a lot of vehicle security and system software data.
I treat the odometer on any vehicle - mechanical or electronic, as the minimum mileage that the vehicle has covered and make my buying decision on this plus the overall condition, service history and a competent engineer's report.
Many years ago a friend of mine wanted to wind back the clock on an old mark 3 cortina. He took the clock out of the instrument panel and he noticed a piece of masking tape stuck on the back. On this tape someone had written "oh no, not again!" - we really found that hilarious!

Cheers
Steve


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## Budw

Stevesolar said:


> Hi,
> At last, a subject on the forum that i really, really know a lot about!
> I worked for one of the biggest vehicle diagnostic manufacturers for more than 15 years - they manufactured the dealer tools for companies such as Mercedes, BMW, Peugeot,Citroen, Renault, Mitsubishi, Fiat etc.
> On vehicles with digital odometers it is relatively easy to change the mileage through the OBD port with a special cable and software.
> However, depending on the vehicle manufacturer will depend on how successful, long lasting and detectable it is.
> Some vehicles (BMW) for instance, store mileage data in more than one of the vehicles ECUs as well as on both keys. This is therefore easy for the dealer to detect, with the key reader or the diagnostic tool.
> On others, you can change the mileage and no trace is kept - i am not prepared to name these brands in an open forum - as in my former job, i had access to a lot of vehicle security and system software data.
> I treat the odometer on any vehicle - mechanical or electronic, as the minimum mileage that the vehicle has covered and make my buying decision on this plus the overall condition, service history and a competent engineer's report.
> Many years ago a friend of mine wanted to wind back the clock on an old mark 3 cortina. He took the clock out of the instrument panel and he noticed a piece of masking tape stuck on the back. On this tape someone had written "oh no, not again!" - we really found that hilarious!
> 
> Cheers
> Steve


Thanks for this input... would love to hear the brands that from your experience are easy to tamper with. No worry, we won't tell anyone else


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## Stevesolar

Budw said:


> Thanks for this input... would love to hear the brands that from your experience are easy to tamper with. No worry, we won't tell anyone else


Hi Budw

Just do a search on Google for "mileage correction software" - you will soon see the trend of which manufacturers are mentioned most!! - including one very famous German brand!!

Cheers
Steve


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## Chocoya

For people who do high mileage - long commuters e.g. Daily AD to DXB, I hear they do an authorised service to keep their warranty and then another outside at a much cheaper price, then wind back the thing and then do the same service again through the company - I don't know if this is true but someone told me this is what happens here.


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## Stevesolar

Chocoya said:


> For people who do high mileage - long commuters e.g. Daily AD to DXB, I hear they do an authorised service to keep their warranty and then another outside at a much cheaper price, then wind back the thing and then do the same service again through the company - I don't know if this is true but someone told me this is what happens here.


Yes - that sounds about right! Exactly the same practice as i have seen in the UK.

Cheers
Steve


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## twowheelsgood

Budw said:


> Many used car dealerships are masters in transforming a high millage car into a low millage lady driven car.


Not that it bothers me either way but every time I hear this, my question is whether the source actually has any first hand evidence of this. 

What exactly is 'many dealers' ?

We all hear these stories and often we say we heard someone telling someone but are there actually any documeted cases of people being caught in Dubai or is it just one of those lazy urban stories that people like to peddle around because it makes them sound knowledgeable ?

Not getting at you btw - more of a general question to those who state it as if its a fact !


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## fadhal huzoori

saraswat said:


> Have the car inspected at the dealership/authorized service center for the particular brand you are looking into. They can tell if things have been altered. A mechanic would be able to tell also, by inspecting the wear & tear of certain areas of the car, but then it should be a garage you know and trust.


This seems to be the best option...thanks all for your valuable inputs


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## Budw

twowheelsgood said:


> Not that it bothers me either way but every time I hear this, my question is whether the source actually has any first hand evidence of this.
> 
> What exactly is 'many dealers' ?
> 
> We all hear these stories and often we say we heard someone telling someone but are there actually any documeted cases of people being caught in Dubai or is it just one of those lazy urban stories that people like to peddle around because it makes them sound knowledgeable ?
> 
> Not getting at you btw - more of a general question to those who state it as if its a fact !


I sold a car to a used car dealer for cash. Few weeks later I saw it advertised and had a look. Bumpers, carpeting, all like new. And amazingly, they also addressed the plenty of door dings I had. It was a good car, and was not mis-advertised; but as transformation it went from heavily used, to an almost brand new looking car. Knowing human nature, if that is the practice here, there will be also plenty that take it a step further; so I believe the stories I hear are true


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## fadhal huzoori

The issue is that most of the of the sellers do not have the service history at all. As per what I have read here there is no fool proof method to detect the fraud but it is better to get the vehicle inspected by the dealer. thanks for your input anyway


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## Chocoya

saraswat said:


> Although I haven't ever had a situation where they (dealership) came back to me saying the detected it, I do believe they are able to know...


If so, why don't they say so - it would void thousands of warranties and save a huge amount of money


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## saraswat

Chocoya said:


> If so, why don't they say so - it would void thousands of warranties and save a huge amount of money


What I meant to say was that all of the used cars I have had checked out a the dealerships (3 out here, with 1 that I suspected of false mileage), none came back with a positive report on tampering and checked out clean. Don't know how much of that is attributable to luck or other factors...


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## Stevesolar

saraswat said:


> What I meant to say was that all of the used cars I have had checked out a the dealerships (3 out here, with 1 that I suspected of false mileage), none came back with a positive report on tampering and checked out clean. Don't know how much of that is attributable to luck or other factors...


Hi Saraswat,
Sorry not luck - simply that many brands are unable to tell anything about mileage with the diagnostic tool - so dealer would not actually have a clue whether someone had plugged in a laptop and given the car a "hair-cut" (as it is known in the trade!!)
As i mentioned above - mileage shown will be minimum vehicle has done - the rest is down to condition, examination and service history (which can also be easily forged).
Cheers
Steve


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## twowheelsgood

Budw said:


> Knowing human nature, if that is the practice here, there will be also plenty that take it a step further; so I believe the stories I hear are true


Fair enough, and I'm not getting at you at all, but you cannot make a trend with one data point. All you can say is that it happened once - nothing more. Human nature actually suggests that most people are basically honest.


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## Tropicana

Chocoya said:


> For people who do high mileage - long commuters e.g. Daily AD to DXB, I hear they do an authorised service to keep their warranty and then another outside at a much cheaper price, then wind back the thing and then do the same service again through the company - I don't know if this is true but someone told me this is what happens here.


I do a long commute but can not figure out why someone would go through so much hassle just for a warranty.


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## Stevesolar

Tropicana said:


> I do a long commute but can not figure out why someone would go through so much hassle just for a warranty.


Hi,
That is because parts on modern cars are so expensive, if not covered by the warranty.
Example - one of my customers has an Audi A8 just outside warranty. These cars have air suspension and it went wrong - cost to fix - 20,000 AED!!
Even an alternator for a modern car can cost anything from 2000 to 5000 AED.
I would not want a BMW 7 series, for instance, unless it had a warranty - they have more than 80 electronic control units - each cost between 3000 and 6000 AED if they go wrong!
It is for this reason that people want to keep the original manufacturers warranty!
Cheers
Steve


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## ccr

saraswat said:


> What I meant to say was that all of the used cars I have had checked out a the dealerships (3 out here, with 1 that I suspected of false mileage), none came back with a positive report on tampering and checked out clean. Don't know how much of that is attributable to luck or other factors...


I got duped buying the last used car 2 years ago.

The car looked great, except without service records even full records were promised to be available. Againsts my better judgement, I bought the car anyway...

During the first service at the dealer, I was told that the car "magically lost" km's since last time it was serviced (based on VIN and service records in dealer system). And the dealer had no idea how it happened.

So not all dealers would be able to detect how / if the odormeter was tampered...


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## Ozimandius

*Fool me once...*

I've been in the market for a SUV/CUV and found a nice SUV which was advertised as having been driven for 61000 kms, GCC specifications, 2008 model. It was in Awir Car Market and drove very well, and looked mint and well kept and I was ready to pay a down payment. I took down the VIN/Chassis number just in case and called up the dealership to check its service history. Turns out that their last record of this car was in June 2012, where it was stored in their Pre-Owned department and sent for polishing...at 103000 kms!

The odo has obviously been tampered with. Is there anything that can be done about this?


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## crt454

Also for the imported from the states, which 50% are , you can do a carfax just google it with the chasis number and it will check odometer fraud and if its ever been in an accident.


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## Radioactive

Happens all the time. You did exactly what everyone should do...always contact the dealer and ask. You'd be surprised how many of them are stolen. (I sadly speak from experience.)


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## INFAMOUS

Budw said:


> Thankfully, it is extremely easy to find out if the odometer has been tampered with. If anyone has reprogrammed the cluster, it will be visible to the agent when they connect their diagnostic equipment. It is impossible to delete the traces from the car computer systems; no matter what the criminals do...


Anything that can be done, can be undone! Or even easier, someone swaps the ECU/Cluster together!


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## vantage

a car doing a local school run and a bit of grocery shopping (lady driver or not...) can easily do only 5,000-7,000 km / year....

a car commuting to Abu Dhabi daily can easily do 75,000 km / year (lady driver or not...)


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## kenyakirk

*Seen it first hand*

This happened to me just over a year ago. And be warned, even the big private second hand garages do it.

I visited Deals On Wheels in Al Awir to look at a car. Was interested so went back for a second look and was told it was away being vale red, washed etc. and i should go back the following week.

On my return I viewed exactly the same car, no chance it being a different one, but the odometer reading had dropped by over 30,000km's!!! Needless to say I turned on my heels and was straight out the door. 

These guys have two garages on SZR in addition to the one I visited. A big outfit and they do this sort of thing. My recommendation is the same as most people on here, get any car checked by the dealer, and only the dealer. Don't let the second hand garage try and force you into having it checked by someone they know.


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## Yousralouali

hi guys,

I need to reduce my kilometers just for a bit before taking my car for service to a big famous German (3letters ?) showroom.

Will they notice it ?
Thanks


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## Stevesolar

Yousralouali said:


> hi guys,
> 
> I need to reduce my kilometers just for a bit before taking my car for service to a big famous German (3letters ?) showroom.
> 
> Will they notice it ?
> Thanks


Hi,
It is much more difficult to alter the mileage on this brand these days - as it is stored in both keys, main ECU and a few other ECUs on the car.
It then compares all the values and flags an error if the reading has gone backwards in one of these locations.
Cheers
Steve


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## Chocoholic

Yousralouali said:


> hi guys,
> 
> I need to reduce my kilometers just for a bit before taking my car for service to a big famous German (3letters ?) showroom.
> 
> Will they notice it ?
> Thanks


So you want to do something that's illegal and dishonest? Nice.

Should you try and sell a car with a tampered odometer, you can be sued for fraud.


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## Stevesolar

Chocoholic said:


> So you want to do something that's illegal and dishonest? Nice.


Actually - whilst I don't approve of what they intend to do - I don't think you will find that it is illegal to alter the mileage on a car that you own.
It becomes illegal if you then try to sell that car and misrepresent the total mileage covered or if you mess with a hire car, that you don't own!


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## maximed

I experienced odometer tampering (cheating on kilometers) from a car showroom in Dubai. I contacted the Department of Development and Economic and they solved the problem for me in 3 days. I was invited by DED and also the owner of the showroom in their office. My mediator Khaled did an excellent job, very good negociator, and honnest, in 20 minutes the owner accepted to refund my money. If you have any problem you can call them on 600 54 5555

Don't forget to bring all proofs, you can ask RTA reports from previous vehicle inspection. It will show odometer rollback detected.


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## sghkdub

Just make sure the care has a documented fsh. I highly doubt rewinding the odometer is a standard part of regular 'servicing', so if the history tallies with what's on the odometer I'm not sure what's to worry about. If it doesn't have a fsh it's not worth touching in the first place as the owner clearly didn't care about the vehicle.


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## Stevesolar

sghkdub said:


> Just make sure the care has a documented fsh. I highly doubt rewinding the odometer is a standard part of regular 'servicing', so if the history tallies with what's on the odometer I'm not sure what's to worry about. If it doesn't have a fsh it's not worth touching in the first place as the owner clearly didn't care about the vehicle.


FSH means nothing.
It's easy enough to remove a few thousand kms between each service - over the long term, that can add up to tens of thousands of kms difference between real and displayed distance covered.


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## quarteyja13

twowheelsgood said:


> Not that it bothers me either way but every time I hear this, my question is whether the source actually has any first hand evidence of this.
> 
> What exactly is 'many dealers' ?
> 
> We all hear these stories and often we say we heard someone telling someone but are there actually any documeted cases of people being caught in Dubai or is it just one of those lazy urban stories that people like to peddle around because it makes them sound knowledgeable ?
> 
> Not getting at you btw - more of a general question to those who state it as if its a fact !


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## quarteyja13

Can you imagine wanting to buy a Toyota Land Cruiser from Dubai, which is 2014 that is showing a mileage of 4008. Does that not look suspicious .................


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## Stevesolar

quarteyja13 said:


> Can you imagine wanting to buy a Toyota Land Cruiser from Dubai, which is 2014 that is showing a mileage of 4008. Does that not look suspicious .................


Quite possible - if it has gone round the clock and has started from zero again!


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