# Spanish Citizenship by Naturalisation to Children



## kaanixir (Mar 27, 2017)

So my mum got married to a Spanish resident, he got his citizenship and my mother's going to get her citizenship by naturalization as his wife who resided a year in Spain. 

Do I have the right to Spanish citizenship as well ? The laws are very confusing and it says 
_"those individuals whose father or mother had been originally Spanish and born in Spain"_
or
_those individuals mentioned in the second bullet-point in article 17, and adopted foreigners of 18 years of age or more._
so I have no right to citizenship unless I'm adopted ? :nod:


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

Let's see if I got this right:

Your mother is not yet Spanish, but she will be once she gets citizenship by marriage, right?

Your mother's husband is not you father, right? So your father is not Spanish?

My understanding (which could well be wrong) is that if you lived in Spain, and applied for Spanish citizenship after your mother got hers, you would be entitled. (The bit about being born in Spain seems to be a bit of an archaic assumption that all Spanish nationals are born in Spain, which of course is not necessarily the case).

Let's see what other say though...


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## booksurfer (Apr 21, 2018)

Overandout said:


> (The bit about being born in Spain seems to be a bit of an archaic assumption that all Spanish nationals are born in Spain, which of course is not necessarily the case).


No.

It's a differentiation between two different types of nationality. Spanish nationality by origin (nacionalidad española de origen) applies to those born in Spain or Spanish territories and Spanish nationality not by origin (nacionalidad española no de origen) for those not born in Spain but have received Spanish nationality by residency or some other means.

It looks like this person might be able to claim 'Spanish nationality not by origin' due to his father (father in law?) being a Spanish national by origin. 

He'll have to renounce his current nationality (American?) though as Spain doesn't allow dual nationality for non-origin Spanish nationals.


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

booksurfer said:


> No.
> 
> It's a differentiation between two different types of nationality. Spanish nationality by origin (nacionalidad española de origen) applies to those born in Spain or Spanish territories and Spanish nationality not by origin (nacionalidad española no de origen) for those not born in Spain but have received Spanish nationality by residency or some other means.
> 
> ...


OK, I get your point about the types of nationality, but I'm not sure about your second point.

To get Spanish nationality the OP need either to be the son of a Spanish person and been born in Spain (doesn't seem to be the case), or have been born to a Spanish parent, again doesn't seem to be the case.

It seems that the OP's mother was not Spanish when the OP was born, and that the mother's husband is not the OP's father (nor would he be the father in law, he would be the OP's step-father) so no rights stem from that relationship.

Right?


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Even if you are eligible for citizenship, be aware that there is now a four-year wait.

https://elpais.com/elpais/2018/05/30/inenglish/1527670437_746079.html


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

Alcalaina said:


> Even if you are eligible for citizenship, be aware that there is now a four-year wait.
> 
> https://elpais.com/elpais/2018/05/30/inenglish/1527670437_746079.html


It's a poor state of affairs when this can affect people's livelihoods. However my understanding was that it had always taken this long, and there is no time commitment given by Spain to process these applications.

Let's hope that the change in government can make a difference here because the "possible political agenda" which the article mentions is the most likely reason behind it.

If Cs get in next time around there will simply be no point applying....


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## booksurfer (Apr 21, 2018)

Overandout said:


> It seems that the OP's mother was not Spanish when the OP was born, and that the mother's husband is not the OP's father (nor would he be the father in law, he would be the OP's step-father) so no rights stem from that relationship.


Are you sure about that?

Is there a distinction being made between 'birth' father and 'step' father?

That's something he needs to find out and the reason why I said 'might'.


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## booksurfer (Apr 21, 2018)

Overandout said:


> Let's hope that the change in government can make a difference here because the "possible political agenda" which the article mentions is the most likely reason behind it.


I don't see this as 'political expediency'. I see it as being nothing more than the usual chaotic, disorganised Spanish bureacracy. It's no different to the justice system.


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

booksurfer said:


> Are you sure about that?
> 
> Is there a distinction being made between 'birth' father and 'step' father?
> 
> That's something he needs to find out and the reason why I said 'might'.


Yes, pretty sure (but nothing is certain!)

The only way that the OP's mother's husband can pass on nationality rights is to adopt the OP.

Just by his mother marrying a Spaniard doesn't give the OP any rights to citizenship.


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## Gregorians (Oct 18, 2017)

Alcalaina said:


> Even if you are eligible for citizenship, be aware that there is now a four-year wait.
> 
> https://elpais.com/elpais/2018/05/30/inenglish/1527670437_746079.html


A very interesting read, though quite shocking. Thanks for sharing.

I have a further variation on my earlier question, if anyone has any views:

I was originally intending to apply for residency (I appreciate the distinction between this and citizenship) on the basis of being able to financially support both of us and putting PMI in place.

Given my husband is Spanish by birth, though has been resident in the UK for the past 25 years, does that change the category I apply under? i.e. does the need for demonstrating savings on deposit and PMI go away?


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

Gregorians said:


> A very interesting read, though quite shocking. Thanks for sharing.
> 
> I have a further variation on my earlier question, if anyone has any views:
> 
> ...


The same Royal Decree which made private insurance a requirement for EU citizens in Spain, also clarified that all Spanish citizens who earn less than 100,000€ / year have the right to a Tarjeta Sanitaria. Regardless of their employment situation or contributions to the social security, so, unless your husband is earning over this amount and not contributing to the SS (highly unlikely I think) then he should have a Tarjeta.

What I'm not sure of is if you can automatically be his dependent on the same card, but I can't see why not.

Note that I have not actually read the Royal Decree text, only a news article so this may not be 100% accurate.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

booksurfer said:


> I don't see this as 'political expediency'. I see it as being nothing more than the usual chaotic, disorganised Spanish bureacracy. It's no different to the justice system.


Could well be, but if so why would there be 78% fewer applications processed in 2017 than in the previous year?

Migrating records to a new database is always problematic, similar situations have occurred in the UK... https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/04/12/uk_government_immigration_database/


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## Gregorians (Oct 18, 2017)

Overandout said:


> The same Royal Decree which made private insurance a requirement for EU citizens in Spain, also clarified that all Spanish citizens who earn less than 100,000€ / year have the right to a Tarjeta Sanitaria. Regardless of their employment situation or contributions to the social security, so, unless your husband is earning over this amount and not contributing to the SS (highly unlikely I think) then he should have a Tarjeta.
> 
> What I'm not sure of is if you can automatically be his dependent on the same card, but I can't see why not.
> 
> Note that I have not actually read the Royal Decree text, only a news article so this may not be 100% accurate.


Thanks *Overandout*. 

This is where it gets a bit more complex... He hasn't contributed to SS since he was living here a quarter of a century ago.

Neither of us are working, though we derive investment income from the UK sufficient for our needs.

I'm assuming I'll still need to prove sufficient means when lodging my Solicitud de Tarjeta en Regimen Comuniario. They usually hand out a form to be completed by your Spanish bank at the same time to do just this, though in our situation we prefer to keep our savings in the UK. I guess I may just have to bite the bullet and transfer over €6K, which I believe is the going rate for the sufficient means test in our region (Catalunya). I'd prefer not to as the money will be put to better use in the UK.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Gregorians said:


> Thanks *Overandout*.
> 
> This is where it gets a bit more complex... He hasn't contributed to SS since he was living here a quarter of a century ago.
> 
> .


We have a member who gained citizenship by inheritance, who had never lived here, who moved here a few years ago & was entitled to healthcare as soon as they had sorted out the DNI, padrón & SS number.


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## Gregorians (Oct 18, 2017)

xabiachica said:


> We have a member who gained citizenship by inheritance, who had never lived here, who moved here a few years ago & was entitled to healthcare as soon as they had sorted out the DNI, padrón & SS number.


Thanks *xabiachica *- can you point me towards the relevant member?

Strictly speaking, we are 'employed' by our own UK company, but draw down income via dividend payments, rather than salaries.

We looked at autonomo SS contributions but those would likely work out at €250 each (€3K per year each) vs. around €900 PA each for PMI. I appreciate that the SS system provides access to more than just healthcare.


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

Maybe I explained poorly, but if you are Spanish, you do not have to be contributing to the SS in order to be eligible for the Tarjeta Sanitaria, unless you are earning over 100k€ / year, then it becomes contribution based.

If he does not have a card, tell him to go apply for one!!


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## Gregorians (Oct 18, 2017)

Ah. Now I get it. Thanks for re-explaining.

Interesting...


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## booksurfer (Apr 21, 2018)

Overandout said:


> The only way that the OP's mother's husband can pass on nationality rights is to adopt the OP.


What's the difference between 'adoption' and being a step father?


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## booksurfer (Apr 21, 2018)

Alcalaina said:


> Migrating records to a new database is always problematic...


Indeed!

Which is consistent with my view that it's their chaotic bureaucracy rather than any political intervention to deliberately slow things down, as the newspaper article inferred.


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

booksurfer said:


> What's the difference between 'adoption' and being a step father?


Well, how can I explain this... 

You don't become someone's father just by marrying their mother. Their father will still be the person named on their birth certificate as the "father".... and in this case, the Spanish law requires that for nationality to pass it has to be either the father or the mother, either by blood or by adoption.

At least, that's how I read the regulations posted by Justicia.


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## booksurfer (Apr 21, 2018)

Overandout said:


> At least, that's how I read the regulations posted by Justicia.


Reference stating that a step-father is not considered the same as a birth father?


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

booksurfer said:


> Reference stating that a step-father is not considered the same as a birth father?


No reference, it's just my interpretation from similar personal experience, but based mainly on the fact that the Justice department only recognise two people as being the "parents" for purposes of bloodline.
A step-father can, and often does co-exist with the birth father and as such is a "third" person.

Anyhow, I think we sacred the OP off, they haven't been back in a while!!


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## Gregorians (Oct 18, 2017)

Overandout said:


> I think we sacred the OP off, they haven't been back in a while!!


Alas like 95% of contributors here. Like wedding magazine sales.

Is there a more vibrant place?


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## booksurfer (Apr 21, 2018)

Overandout said:


> No reference, it's just my interpretation from similar personal experience, but based mainly on the fact that the Justice department only recognise two people as being the "parents" for purposes of bloodline.


You may well be right, I'm not saying you're not.

However, it strikes me as being odd (although that's not inconsistent with Spanish ways of thinking!) that a complete stranger adopted by a Spanish natural by birth has more rights in Spain that the offspring of a person married to a Spanish natural by birth and exists within the family unit as a dependant.


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