# Negotiating Property Prices



## happy_dude (Nov 16, 2012)

Hi All,

I am in a position where I am looking to purchase a family property to be used initially for holidays with the option of looking at moving over permanently in about 5 years time. It is never going to be rented.

With the above in mind I am not looking to buy property as an investment but as a home to be used over a long period of time.

I am travelling over to Spain in January to spend some time looking at a selection of properties and have a question about property prices.

With the market being in such a bad state what sort of prices are people getting off the asking prices. Some prices I've seen vary widely between simillar properties in simillar areas. I have been watching prices / houses for the past 6 months and a lot of the properties I saw six months ago are still there.

I would be interested in hearing from anyone that has bought over the past 12 months and has managed to negotiate a sunbstantial discount off the asking price.

I am looking to spend no more than €150,000 and am looking for coastal or inland propoerties as long as they are within an hour of ALicante / Valencia.

Thanks in advance for any help.


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## Cazzy (Nov 23, 2008)

Most people are offering 25% below the asking price. If one person says no then another will say yes. Expats are desperate, but this won't work with Spaniards.


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## codex70 (Jun 24, 2012)

Cazzy, that's interesting. 

Are the Spaniards more likely to hold out for the asking price (or close to)? Are they generally happier not to sell? I've been looking at properties on Mallorca for the last 2 years, and I'm not likely to buy for another year. Some of the properties I've seen have been on the market for at least 2 years (they were on when I started looking and are still on). Without going to look it's hard to know why they haven't sold, but I suspect it's to do with price.


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

I think it's a bit of a strange question with no valid answer.


Many properties have already been reduced substantially and so are at their 'correct' price.

Some properties owned by Spanish will never be reduced, in fact they may well be put up. They have a completely different attitude - "if it sells, fine. if it doesn't sell then it's costing me more so I'll put the price up to cover the expenses"!


At the end of the day, if you're not buying for investment, then the price you pay is one that you are comfortable with - that's what we did. Unless there are similar properties around, then you can't compare prices. 

Simply stating that one should offer x% below the advertised price (and if they don't take it, walk away) is just plain balmy!

All, of course, IMHO


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## Cazzy (Nov 23, 2008)

snikpoh said:


> I think it's a bit of a strange question with no valid answer.
> 
> 
> Many properties have already been reduced substantially and so are at their 'correct' price.
> ...




I was just saying in my experience that most people are offering 25% below. If the offer is rejected and you don't want to go any higher then try offering on another property you like. Lots of expats are in the situation where they are desperate or have already returned to the UK. 

The Spanish are unlikely to take offers, they would rather just leave the house to rot!!


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## neilmac (Sep 10, 2008)

The answer is defined by the individual vendor's circumstances and the type of property in my opinion.

Find a 'desperate' expat owned property then try a low offer, it may not still be acceptable because the asking price could already be low because of their circumstances.

Another variable is the type of property. Something unusual is likely to hold a price whereas an urbanisation type property surrounded by other very similar properties (which may also be for sale) is much more likely to be open to low offers.


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## Cazzy (Nov 23, 2008)

neilmac said:


> The answer is defined by the individual vendor's circumstances and the type of property in my opinion.
> 
> Find a 'desperate' expat owned property then try a low offer, it may not still be acceptable because the asking price could already be low because of their circumstances.
> 
> Another variable is the type of property. Something unusual is likely to hold a price whereas an urbanisation type property surrounded by other very similar properties (which may also be for sale) is much more likely to be open to low offers.



True


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## carlnotts (Sep 13, 2012)

neilmac said:


> The answer is defined by the individual vendor's circumstances and the type of property in my opinion.
> 
> Find a 'desperate' expat owned property then try a low offer, it may not still be acceptable because the asking price could already be low because of their circumstances.
> 
> Another variable is the type of property. Something unusual is likely to hold a price whereas an urbanisation type property surrounded by other very similar properties (which may also be for sale) is much more likely to be open to low offers.


Humm actually not so true.

I have just bought a property (from a Spaniard) and negotiated the price down from 168,000€ to 140,000€ a 28,000€ saving or just over a 16% reduction, I actually go to the Notary on the 22nd of November to sign the deeds.

When you look at Spanish property for sale you will find that asking prices are still very over rated for this current climate, most of the really cheap properties for sale really aren't in the best areas, be careful of this as the old adage "location location location" really is important.

I really don't think it matters whether you buy from an expat or a Spanish national you can still grab yourself a bargain. Look at properties that are slightly over your budget, if you like what you see make a sensible offer, you never know what might happen.

Remember CASH is king (if you are paying cash that is & not having a Spanish mortgage)

When we viewed the property we have just bought we both thought "why the hell are you showing us this" "it's so out of our price range" but with a bit of determination & not letting the agent know we had fallen in love with the property or the so called (DREAM) we were able to negotiate a price we were happy to pay.

At the end of the day if you really like a property, like the area, and are willing to pay a price you are happy with my advise would be "Do It" you can spend too long looking for the PERFECT property that actually might never exist.......

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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

A lot will also depend on whether there is a mortgage or other loan on the property. 

As far as Spaniard-owned properties are concerned there maybe a number of owners (house gets left to a number of heirs [even worse, if owner died intestate, or worse still if one or more heirs can't be traced] who cannot agree to price reductions without 100% agreement). Many Spaniards already own several properties that have been left to them by various relatives so, often, they are in no hurry to sell and will wait until the market improves.


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## gus-lopez (Jan 4, 2010)

snikpoh said:


> Some properties owned by Spanish will never be reduced, in fact they may well be put up. They have a completely different attitude - "if it sells, fine. if it doesn't sell then it's costing me more so I'll put the price up to cover the expenses"!



& around here & especially with older Spaniards that is what happens ! 

one property that we looked at over 10 years ago was on sale at 23 million pesetas & has never sold, nor is it lived in. The current price is 100million pesetas, thats 600k euros .


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## djfwells (Sep 28, 2009)

Cazzy said:


> Most people are offering 25% below the asking price. If one person says no then another will say yes. Expats are desperate, but this won't work with Spaniards.


Totally agree.
All I would add is that at this moment in time no buyer should be shy of making what they consider to be a criminally low offer.
If you made an offer of 50% of the asking price on 5 houses that you liked, I would not be at all surprised if you had more than one vendor expressing an interest.


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## carlnotts (Sep 13, 2012)

djfwells said:


> Totally agree.
> All I would add is that at this moment in time no buyer should be shy of making what they consider to be a criminally low offer.
> If you made an offer of 50% of the asking price on 5 houses that you liked, I would not be at all surprised if you had more than one vendor expressing an interest.


Also don't forget that in a lot of cases the buyer (sometimes unknowingly) will actually be negotiating the agents commission and not the actual price of the property.

Where a Spanish national is the vendor it is quite common for him to tell his agent an actual price he wants for the property and then leave it up to the agent to charge whatever they want on top for their commission.

Unlike the UK where an agent takes a percentage of the actual sale price.

Where you are dealing with 2 or more agents you may find the actual commission is a lot more as they will all be sharing it.

Another tip is be very weary of what the agent tells you, we were told the vendor had a mortgage on the property we have just bought, this in fact was not the case so I found out and the property was/is mortgage free.


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## djfwells (Sep 28, 2009)

The other point to consider is not just the price that the previous owner bought at, but (assuming expats themselves) the exchange rate that they transferred their money at.
If the funds were brought into Spain at, say 1.60, and upon eventually selling (to move back to Uk at an exchange rate of 1.20), then this 'profit' can be used to discount the sale price of the property itself.
A 'loss' on paper, but the vendor could realistically still return to the UK with the same amount of money that they left with.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

You lot sound like politicians especially of the present government "how can we screw a bit more out of people now that they are down?" Do you want to give them a good brutal kicking, too? 

Don't forget "You reap as you sow" and it may well be that many of your new neighbours might well have been good friends of the seller and the very people who might have given you help when you need it in the future could turn their backs.


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## djfwells (Sep 28, 2009)

Don't be naive Balidlocks.
This is still a capitalist society. We all know the rules and we all play the game.


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## carlnotts (Sep 13, 2012)

baldilocks said:


> You lot sound like politicians especially of the present government "how can we screw a bit more out of people now that they are down?" Do you want to give them a good brutal kicking, too?
> 
> Don't forget "You reap as you sow" and it may well be that many of your new neighbours might well have been good friends of the seller and the very people who might have given you help when you need it in the future could turn their backs.


It's an ill wind............ As the saying goes.

Your neighbours would have to be pretty clued up on your private affairs really.

And let's face it, as harsh as it might sound, you have to look after yourself as nobody but you has your best interests at heart


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Before we moved to Spain and probably about 5 - 6 years ago now, we came over on one of these "free holidays" arranged by an estate agent "bring your credit card" jobs!!! They were trying to sell us properties at ridiculous prices, with promises of huge profits etc - oh and the agents commission was 25% FFS !!!!!! Fortunately those days have gone, but I'm sure many folk have been burned by such scams and sadly, there is no way of them ever being able to recoup their money in this day and age

Jo xxx


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## carlnotts (Sep 13, 2012)

jojo said:


> Before we moved to Spain and probably about 5 - 6 years ago now, we came over on one of these "free holidays" arranged by an estate agent "bring your credit card" jobs!!! They were trying to sell us properties at ridiculous prices, with promises of huge profits etc - oh and the agents commission was 25% FFS !!!!!! Fortunately those days have gone, but I'm sure many folk have been burned by such scams and sadly, there is no way of them ever being able to recoup their money in this day and age
> 
> Jo xxx


Me too,

I went on one of these trips about 5/6 years ago after being stopped in the high street in the UK by a representative of Polaris World, they were offering a free week at there resort in Fuengirola plus £25 worth of M&S vouchers, after a bit of a sales pitch in the church hall I decide "what the hell why not" and took 4 friends with me.

Going to the resort (which offered me absolutely nothing) simply for a free weeks holiday and my £25 worth of vouchers with no intention to buy.

Do I really feel sorry for the people who had their fingers burnt by such tactics? I'm not sure 100% that I do after all they really must of had much more MONEY than sense!

Sent from my iPad using ExpatForum


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## Roy C (Sep 29, 2012)

It's simple, it's a buyers market, you can always walk away with absolutely loads of propety on the market. I myself will rent when the time comes and will rent out my property over here but I willstill negotiate on rents. 

If I did decide to but I would be looking at offering 33% below the asking price and then maybe negotiate a bit.


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## Roy C (Sep 29, 2012)

baldilocks said:


> You lot sound like politicians especially of the present government "how can we screw a bit more out of people now that they are down?" Do you want to give them a good brutal kicking, too?
> 
> Don't forget "You reap as you sow" and it may well be that many of your new neighbours might well have been good friends of the seller and the very people who might have given you help when you need it in the future could turn their backs.


I suppose you offered over the asking price for yours.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Roy C said:


> I suppose you offered over the asking price for yours.


No but we didn't try to screw the seller either and as a consequence we have a warm welcome wherever we go in the village and even get invited to be part of their family Christmas/New Year celebrations unlike most other Brits here who are aither actively disliked or not exactly welcomed. This is particularly the case in villages where many people are inter-related. It may well be different in towns and cities.


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## happy_dude (Nov 16, 2012)

Cazzy said:


> Most people are offering 25% below the asking price. If one person says no then another will say yes. Expats are desperate, but this won't work with Spaniards.


Thanks Cazzy this is type of info I'm after.


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## happy_dude (Nov 16, 2012)

Good advice thanks. It will be a purely cash purchase so I will be able to move fairly quickly. I was already looking at properties valued up to €160k, hence my question so it's good to know deals are there to be had.


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## happy_dude (Nov 16, 2012)

djfwells said:


> Totally agree.
> All I would add is that at this moment in time no buyer should be shy of making what they consider to be a criminally low offer.
> If you made an offer of 50% of the asking price on 5 houses that you liked, I would not be at all surprised if you had more than one vendor expressing an interest.


It's sounds like that for once I am buying at the right time. The last time I bought was in Ireland in 2006. Fingers burned big time. Again, this is exactly the sort of info I'm looking for. Thank you.


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## happy_dude (Nov 16, 2012)

Yes, I have seen a lot of properties marketed by different agents. Something to be aware of.


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## happy_dude (Nov 16, 2012)

baldilocks said:


> You lot sound like politicians especially of the present government "how can we screw a bit more out of people now that they are down?" Do you want to give them a good brutal kicking, too?
> 
> Don't forget "You reap as you sow" and it may well be that many of your new neighbours might well have been good friends of the seller and the very people who might have given you help when you need it in the future could turn their backs.


Not true. I have been on the receiving end of this previously when the crash hit Ireland. I bought there with the intention of settling in the area for at least 10 years. Things changed, I had to to sell. I didn't think any less of purchasers trying to negotiate the price down. After all, it was a buyer's market. Anyone purchasing property should be fully aware that it is not an automatic right that your property will increase in value. I am just lucky that I am in a position at the moment where I am able to maximise what I can get for my money.

It's not about "screwing" anyone. An offer on a property that is accepted is the market value for that property. I am sure anyone in my position would be asking the same questions.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

happy_dude said:


> It's sounds like that for once I am buying at the right time. The last time I bought was in Ireland in 2006. Fingers burned big time. Again, this is exactly the sort of info I'm looking for. Thank you.


 I'd give it a few more years to be able to say that for sure - I dont think the market has bottomed out yet - while there are still so many unoccupied, unowned properties around????????

Jo xxx


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## jp1 (Jun 11, 2011)

jojo said:


> I'd give it a few more years to be able to say that for sure - I dont think the market has bottomed out yet - while there are still so many unoccupied, unowned properties around????????
> 
> Jo xxx


I have followed the market for 10 years and I don't entirely agree with that. Yes the market has some way to fall but, this is what I said on another forum..

My view is that now is a good a time as any.

Prices have fallen in general around 50% and there are millions (literally) of properties for sale. There is a huge gulf between a private seller and a bank/developer property in terms of advertised price. Prices will undoubtedly fall further but this will be the general market level, it's possible today to see private sellers selling at prices that would be considered 75% down from the peak. What will happen is that the general market level will approach the prices of desperate sellers** today. So it's entirely feasible that you could select from 1000's of private properties that are probably being sold at what will turn out to be the market bottom, or if not very close to it.

** I used the term desperate sellers, but this is a catch all term. There are many owners who simply wish to sell as the property has now served it purpose, no longer required and appreciate what is needed to attract a buyer, they probably are extremely financially secure but want to move on in their life.

Of course there are also many that really are in financial difficulty and facing repossession, if your incredibly low offer (or their low sale price) matches their mortgage then a sale can be achieved.

The market is really not like the UK where you can look at a street of houses and all are priced within 5% of each other. In Spain IDENTICAL properties in the same street can vary by as much as 100%.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

jp1 said:


> I have followed the market for 10 years and I don't entirely agree with that. Yes the market has some way to fall but, this is what I said on another forum..


 lol, I dont think you having followed the market for any length of time will enable you to know the answer anymore than I do - what we need is a crystal ball 

Jo xxx


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## jp1 (Jun 11, 2011)

jojo said:


> lol, I dont think you having followed the market for any length of time will enable you to know the answer anymore than I do - what we need is a crystal ball
> 
> Jo xxx


LOL... I see your point. I didn't mean to come across that way! What I was trying to say was that I do read and study the market considerably from an interest in economics, not just some passing internet comment.

Human nature is pretty constant. We all jump in on a boom with the false belief that it can only continue. The same is true for the reverse, we all don't see an end to the crash especially with the constant stream of economic negativity. But being able to buy a property at 25-30%% of it's peak value in my mind indicates something close to the bottom.

The trouble is that the market is so dis-functional, the huge numbers of bank owned property at inflated prices and delusional sellers distorts the market and hides the true fall in property prices.


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## happy_dude (Nov 16, 2012)

jp1 said:


> I have followed the market for 10 years and I don't entirely agree with that. Yes the market has some way to fall but, this is what I said on another forum..
> 
> My view is that now is a good a time as any.
> 
> ...


To be honest I'm not looking/waiting for the right time to buy as that time for me is right now  As I mentioned before this isn't something I am trying to make money from, but something I can invest in that is mine for what I hope to be the next 15-20 years.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

happy_dude said:


> To be honest I'm not looking/waiting for the right time to buy as that time for me is right now  As I mentioned before this isn't something I am trying to make money from, but something I can invest in that is mine for what I hope to be the next 15-20 years.



Thats the only way to look at it. You're buying a home to live in and enjoy - a lifestyle, not a money making scheme or investment. Life is too short to waste it worrying and waiting

Jo xxxx


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

jojo said:


> Thats the only way to look at it. You're buying a home to live in and enjoy - a lifestyle, not a money making scheme or investment. Life is too short to waste it worrying and waiting
> 
> Jo xxxx


we need to meet up LOL


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