# NIE Application Questions



## EX-1 (Jun 12, 2013)

I'm at the absolute limit of my patience in trying to get good, solid, factual advice about NIE application. You'd think, wouldn't you, that something as important as an NIE would be clear-cut regards the requirements and application procedure. After wasting almost another whole year of my life trying to get some facts about this, it feels as if I've gone in a loop and I find myself having to ask even the simplest things again after something I read the other day.

I recently read on the "official" guide of _two_ popular websites, that applying for an NIE does not require an address. One even mentions that if you have no address in Spain, simply leave the address part of the form blank!

My questions are:

- Is it true I do not need an address to get an NIE?
- If it is true, then where do they send the NIE once it has been processed?
- Is it true that I do not need proof of income or any other funds to obtain an NIE?

If anyone knows the correct answers to these questions (meaning it has been proven time and time again), I would really love to hear from you. I've tried everything from forums to guides to Spanish solicitors. Every attempt so far has been an absolute waste of time because I'm still no wiser than when I started!

Here I am, asking the most basic things!


----------



## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

EX-1 said:


> I'm at the absolute limit of my patience in trying to get good, solid, factual advice about NIE application. You'd think, wouldn't you, that something as important as an NIE would be clear-cut regards the requirements and application procedure. After wasting almost another whole year of my life trying to get some facts about this, it feels as if I've gone in a loop and I find myself having to ask even the simplest things again after something I read the other day.
> 
> I recently read on the "official" guide of _two_ popular websites, that applying for an NIE does not require an address. One even mentions that if you have no address in Spain, simply leave the address part of the form blank!
> 
> ...


before I reply - you are just talking about a NIE number - not registering as resident?


----------



## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

xabiachica said:


> before I reply - you are just talking about a NIE number - not registering as resident?


... and, why do you think that you need an NIE? 

What do you want to do with it?


----------



## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

snikpoh said:


> ... and, why do you think that you need an NIE?
> 
> What do you want to do with it?


that too....


----------



## EX-1 (Jun 12, 2013)

Thankyou both, it all depends really, I kinda need to know one thing before I can decide on the other.

I'm coming to Spain and wish to buy a Spanish-plated veihcle. I've read numerous times now that in order to do that I need either an NIE or (and the "or" is the important part here I need clarifying) a certificate of residence. I've read this a lot of times, and if this is true, I can get my NIE and then purchase a Spanish-plated car without issue.

I'm not decided right now on whether I want to become a resident because it all depends upon other things (which is a question I will leave for another thread I intend to start depending on the outcome of this one). But basically, I get that the NIE is pretty much essential no matter what, but there's so much _drastically_ different information out there on the requirements for obtaining one, it's impossible for me to know who is telling the truth and who is talking nonsese.

Is there two types of NIE or something?
Why would residence matter for obtaining an NIE?


----------



## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

An NIE can be obtained fairly easily - I thought you needed a Spanish address to send it to, but apparently not??? 

I believe you can do it over the internet, or you go to your local foreigners office/national police station in Spain, where you can pick itg up straight away. 

The NIE on its own is temporary and lasts for three months. If you want a permanent one, then you need a residencia as well and for that you need and address in Spain, proof that you have an income and proof that you have healthcare provision.

Jo xxx


----------



## EX-1 (Jun 12, 2013)

Thanks Jo, a lot of that rings a bell!

Yes, I'm under the impression that there are a few ways to get one. My plan is to rent somewhere when I get to Spain, apply at the local office and wait for it to be delivered (I think I read it can take up to a month to arrive).

Once I have my NIE I am under the impression I can buy a Spanish-plated car, well, van really. But that's another question, is it true that having my UK driving licence and an NIE is enough for either a private seller or dealer to register the vehicle in my name?

That's kinda what bugs me, it seems unlikely that if I can obtain an NIE without an address, that I can then use that NIE to register a Spanish-plated vehicle. It all sounds a bit too unlikely to me. The thing is, of course, I would be able to provide an address for the NIE application (even if they don't require one), but that doesn't stop me doubting the accuracy of the things I've read.

I just find it hard to believe that I can literally turn up in Spain with my passport, go to the local office and that they'll issue me an NIE without an address. If it's true, then I get the feeling there's some other requirement I've not been told about or read about.

I just need to know for sure before I can start packing.


----------



## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

EX-1 said:


> Thankyou both, it all depends really, I kinda need to know one thing before I can decide on the other.
> 
> I'm coming to Spain and wish to buy a Spanish-plated veihcle. I've read numerous times now that in order to do that I need either an NIE or (and the "or" is the important part here I need clarifying) a certificate of residence. I've read this a lot of times, and if this is true, I can get my NIE and then purchase a Spanish-plated car without issue.
> 
> ...



there's only one kind of NIE....


if all you're doing is buying a car, you can get a NIE at your nearest Spanish Consulate in the UK - usually you return to collect it a week or so later - the same at an extranjería here in Spain

as jojo said, the actual cert lasts 90 days, so you'd need to get your timing right


----------



## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

EX-1 said:


> Thanks Jo, a lot of that rings a bell!
> 
> Yes, I'm under the impression that there are a few ways to get one. My plan is to rent somewhere when I get to Spain, apply at the local office and wait for it to be delivered (I think I read it can take up to a month to arrive).
> 
> ...


Although its not a legal requirement (AFAIK), a lot of agents do like to see an NIE number before you rent - however, money talks lol!!!

So, your best bet is get one first, from a UK consulate? Go rent a place, get the van you're after and then - well your NIE lasts 90 days, so you then need to decide ..... what then? Well if you want to be a resident, then you need to apply. You will need to show proof of income and healthcare. Then you'll have a permanent NIE/residencia.

That said, when we got our NIE (7years ago now), we got our rental property first, then we went to the National Police in Malaga, with our passports and they gave us our NIEs there and then! But times have changed and it can be different from area to area too!

Jo xxx


----------



## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

OK, so here we go to answer your question;

To buy a car in Spain you should need an NIE/'residencia', PLUS proof of where you live. This can either be the padron or if you own a property, then the escritura. 

The padron is most important so that you can tax the vehicle. In Spain, the vehicle tax is a local one managed by your local town hall so they need to know who will be charging you.


----------



## EX-1 (Jun 12, 2013)

Thanks Jo, Snikpoh!

Thing is, I don't know if I want to be resident yet so the whole residence thing is out of the question for now. That's why I'm trying to find out if it's true that I can register a car without that residencia thing. I could point to some stuff I've read but I don't know if it's allowed because it's on competing sites.

And what about those that go to work in Ibiza?

Apparently they turn up, get their NIE and they are able to buy scooters and cars during their time on the island (no doubt because car/scooter hire costs would be prohibitive for that period of time). I'm guessing hardly any of those are residents, they're simply there for seasonal work which is why they apply for the NIE.

See, this is the part I can't seem to get a solid answer on, or maybe it's just me can't grasp a simple thing. If I'm understanding Snikpoh correctly then I can't register a spanish vehicle in my name without being resident or on the padron. But how then, are those that work in Ibiza for example, registering cars and scooters etc?

And how come some of the big sites state that to register a car in Spain I can use either my passport or NIE as proof, with no mention of having to posess a residence certificate?


----------



## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

EX-1 said:


> Thanks Jo, Snikpoh!
> 
> Thing is, I don't know if I want to be resident yet so the whole residence thing is out of the question for now. That's why I'm trying to find out if it's true that I can register a car without that residencia thing. I could point to some stuff I've read but I don't know if it's allowed because it's on competing sites.
> 
> ...


you can buy a vehicle without being a registered resident - & also without being on the padrón - you can't be on the padrón unless ou live here for more than half the year - you will need a NIE & your passport can be your photo ID

you WILL need an address though - & some kind of proof of that address

for a resident that would be padrón - non-resident property owners would use their escritura

I don't know how you'd get around that


----------



## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

As someone who has just gone through this process I can tell you the following

To be able to purchase a car in Spain the dealer will want the following:-

Padron Cert
Residencia Cert
NIE

WE obtained Non Resident NIE's

Then once we bought our house we signed on the padron

WE then applied for residencia.

Both Gestors, and Lawyer and car dealers all agreed you can only buy a spanish car if you are resident.


----------



## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

EX-1 said:


> Thanks Jo, Snikpoh!
> 
> Thing is, I don't know if I want to be resident yet so the whole residence thing is out of the question for now. That's why I'm trying to find out if it's true that I can register a car without that residencia thing. I could point to some stuff I've read but I don't know if it's allowed because it's on competing sites.
> 
> ...


Firstly, you need to know that Spain is notorious for the different regions, towns, days, funcionarios interpreting the rules differently. These rules may change frequently and without warning in many cases!

You also need to know that Spain is tightening up on its rules and regulations. It seems that they're making everything more difficult and complicated, but its their way of making sure folk dont go over and abuse their systems etc... which, lets face it, historically Brits have in general rolled up and done their own thing to an extent

So we advise the strict letter of the law as best we can. To do things properly, you really need an address, a NIE/residencia and be signed on the padron - if you chose not to stay, then you sell your van leave - simple!

Jo xxx


----------



## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

Now I am starting to question myself .........


I thought you couldn't buy/own a Spanish vehicle unless you were a Spanish resident now. 

This still does NOT mean that you need the 'residencia' as you will be deemed to be resident after 90 days anyway.


But you DO need a padron or escritura as I stated.


----------



## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

snikpoh said:


> Now I am starting to question myself .........
> 
> 
> I thought you couldn't buy/own a Spanish vehicle unless you were a Spanish resident now.
> ...



LOL!! Only in Spain eh??!!! We didnt sign on the padron til after we bought our car!

Jo xxx


----------



## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

from the DGT - in English

https://sede.dgt.gob.es/Galerias/tr...io-titularidad-vehiculo-09-06-2014-INGLES.pdf


all it mentions is an official document proving ID & address. 

it lists as examples: ID card, Spanish Driving licence; residence card; passport & foreigner ID number

the foreigner ID number is the NIE

that isn't a list of 'you must have all of these' it's a list of different things which are accepted

nowhere does it say that you have to be a resident, nor to be on the padrón


of course a dealer might not 'get' that someone who doesn't actually live here might want to buy a vehicle - so might well insist on padrón & resident registration cert

but according to the DGT, neither are _required_ - you just need official proof of who you are & your address

an escritura should be accepted as proof of address, & passport & NIE for ID & tax purposes


----------



## EX-1 (Jun 12, 2013)

Ok, that's it, my head has officially exploded, not physically of course, rather my brain cells have finally reached a point where they can no longer fathom or tolerate such things. I reckon it would be easier to work out whether there's an end to space than it would be to work out the Spanish system.

On a more serious note, it's about time the public dragged these incompetent tossers by the bollocks and held them accountable for their incompetence, because remember, they are quite happy to fine you if you do it wrong. I get a security warning when using their website, so it looks as if they can't even manage to ensure their own document downloads have a valid security certificate, so while I appreciate what has just been relayed to me, I won't be downloading the document.

Cambio's post sounds so certain, so positive, I was even about to take that as correct. Now we have something from xabiachica, something "official" which, if it's correct, would suggests that Cambio's dealer and Solicitor were both talking out of their backsides and all effectively agreed on a bunch of nonsense. But you know what, such is the level of incompetence the Spanish system has demonstrated so far, I still don't know whether to trust the "official" thing or settle on what Cambio said, after all, Cambio's is a real life scenario!

Do I trust a real life scenario, or the clearly incompetent Spanish system to relay correct and up-to-date information in their own document?

Tricky eh?

Regards the residency; getting to Spain is not a problem, getting an address in Spain is not a problem, supporting myself long enough in Spain is not a problem. What _is_ a problem, though, is the outrageous requirement to have 600 euros a month income and 6000 euros in the bank. I don't have that, and even if I did, I would spend _nowhere near_ that amount of money per month, never have and never will.

Thanks again to everyone, it's much appreciated, and I realise that on a forum such as this the replies are all done in good faith. It's just a shame the "officials" can't get their act together. I'm lost for words, really, it's like I cannot win, I cannot do anything correct without knowing what is correct.

I mean WTF


----------



## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

EX-1 said:


> Ok, that's it, my head has officially exploded, not physically of course, rather my brain cells have finally reached a point where they can no longer fathom or tolerate such things. I reckon it would be easier to work out whether there's an end to space than it would be to work out the Spanish system.
> 
> On a more serious note, it's about time the public dragged these incompetent tossers by the bollocks and held them accountable for their incompetence, because remember, they are quite happy to fine you if you do it wrong. They can't even manage to ensure their own document downloads have a valid security certificate, so while I appreciate what has just been relayed to me, I won't be downloading the document.
> 
> ...


Chill lol!!!! You dont need both 6000€ AND 600€ a month. Either/or will do. Dont forget, you may have to pay for healthcare!??

Its simple really, just make sure you've covered your behind. Do everything that officially needs to be done. Its no big deal really. NIE/residencia and sign on the padron - say it quickly and it doesnt seem so difficult :lol:

Jo xxx


----------



## EX-1 (Jun 12, 2013)

Well thanks for the encouragement, Jo!

Don't take me too sertiously, but you know what I mean, it's not like I'm in a situation where I can afford to throw caution to the wind and expect to get it right. I really need to be certain what is right before I do this, because if I get some incompetent jobsworth (and from what I've read, the Spanish legal system seems to employ these types almost exclusively), I need to be in a position to deal them a few facts and rectify the situation. I don't want to find myself in a situation where I get "almost there" and then some incompetent jobsworth screws it up for me and effectively throws my savings down the drain. Had enough of those types here in the UK.

If I had plenty of cash I wouldn't be so bothered, but I don't.
God, I wish I could take that attitude, Jo, I really do!

I can just picture you right now, you're lounging on a floating bed in your pool, in your mansion somewhere in Ibiza. You're slowly sipping some exotic cocktail and wondering whether you should do Amnesia or Pacha tomorrow!

Don't even think of denying it  

Either one or the other regards the proof of income, well that's better than what I read before. I still don't have that much, but like I said, it's an improvement on before - lol


----------



## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

EX-1 said:


> If I had plenty of cash I wouldn't be so bothered, but I don't.
> God, I wish I could take that attitude, Jo, I really do!
> 
> I can just picture you right now, you're lounging on a floating bed in your pool, in your mansion somewhere in Ibiza. You're slowly sipping some exotic cocktail and wondering whether you should do Amnesia or Pacha tomorrow!
> ...


 :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

Oh stop it :lol::lol:

Sadly, we had to come back to the UK, no prospects for the kids in Spain as its still suffering from the recession. so no, I'm not lounging on a floating bed in my pool, in my mansion somewhere in Ibiza. Unfortunately I'm in miserable Worthing, west sussex, bitterly regretting that I'm not in Spain :Cry: Altho where we lived is suffering from a pretty bad fire this evening. Apparently most of Mijas is engulfed in flames



Jo xxx


----------



## ginandtonic (Aug 2, 2014)

I recently purchased a car, the NIE certificate does require an address for the application to be approved. The actual paper with the NIE number on it, which you pick up after a week or so after application (at a time pre arranged by authorities) does not have an address printed on it (strange but true). You also have to now register on the Padron after getting the NIE, as Traffico will not accept the application without a copy. I attempted to argue with about requiring to sign onto the Padron as it appeared that this is not what the law requires, however my interpreter whispered that I was in danger of not having the car registered if I kept on this moral high ground, so we whizzed of and signed the Padron. Hope this helps.


----------



## kimuyen (Aug 8, 2013)

As some people mentioned on here already, getting an NIE is surprising not that difficult after you know how (yes, I know the "know how" is illusive).

For us, we did not have an address in Spain when we applied for ours. We went to a Spain Consulate in the US, gave them the form (which we downloaded from their website), Modelo 790 to pay the fee, and our passports. In the address field, we put our US address. After about 1 week, they emailed our NIEs to us via our respective emails.

The NIEs expire every three months, before we left for Spain, we renew them the same way, at the Consulate, in person, and received the NIEs by email.

Now that we are here for a week now, NIEs are much preferred than passports in most of what we do. Health insurance agents asked for our NIEs so they can process the applications much more quickly as they did not have to send the application to Madrid if we used our passports. We got our health insurance policy within a day.

My husband's blood boiled over so many times experiencing a different way and different thinking here (imagine a long walk in this hot weather, with a 5-yr old in tow, to then see the "closed" sign (yes, for the day) at 3PM. But we chose to come Spain for a reason. So I told him to chill or he will die young before enjoying a good lifestyle .

Best of luck!


----------



## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

ginandtonic said:


> I recently purchased a car, the NIE certificate does require an address for the application to be approved. The actual paper with the NIE number on it, which you pick up after a week or so after application (at a time pre arranged by authorities) does not have an address printed on it (strange but true). You also have to now register on the Padron after getting the NIE, as Traffico will not accept the application without a copy. I attempted to argue with about requiring to sign onto the Padron as it appeared that this is not what the law requires, however my interpreter whispered that I was in danger of not having the car registered if I kept on this moral high ground, so we whizzed of and signed the Padron. Hope this helps.


:welcome:

do you live here in Spain?


----------



## ginandtonic (Aug 2, 2014)

Yes, for the time being, I am located just outside Torrevieja.


----------



## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

ginandtonic said:


> Yes, for the time being, I am located just outside Torrevieja.


ah well, you should have been on the padrón anyway!

the reason I asked, was because if you weren't living here, you'd have needed to go back & remove yourself from the list


----------



## larryzx (Jul 2, 2014)

Kimuyen QUOTE: _The NIEs expire every three months, before we left for Spain, we renew them the same way, at the Consulate, in person, and received the NIEs by email._

No. The certificate is valid for three months (just like the certificate of empadronamiento and the medical cert for applying for a drivers licence). 

The NIE lasts forever.


----------



## EX-1 (Jun 12, 2013)

*Jo*, I'm sorry to hear of the fire and pleased you're safe, but on the other hand you have my deepest sympathy for having to stomach this place once more after living in Spain. I hope you manage to get back to Spain ASAP!

As far as I'm concerned, England is never coming out of recession, not in our lifetime or even that of your childrens lifetime. One thing I feel absolutely certain of is that if/when one of these countries does recover, Spain will be the first and England will be many, many years behind it.



*Ginandtonic*, thanks for taking the time to join and post that information, it's much appreciated 

You also answered something I was about to ask, that stuff about the address not being printed on the NIE, that's something I've been curious about for a long time so it's good to know! As for the main stuff, it sure does look as if I need to sign on the Padron then. Of course this also means that the information being given out on many major websites is absolute bollocks. I really feel for the amount of people who are going to fall foul because of putting trust in it.



*Kimuyen*, thanks for that (and your husband has every right to get angry, he has my sympathy). However, you've just thrown a nother spanner in the works for me over the renew of NIE's. If what Larryzx pointed out is true then I can't even rent a property long enough to buy my van and then quit the property.



*Larryzx*, thanks for the heads-up on that. So does that mean that if I give up my rented address after registering a spanish-plated vehicle, I would not be able to just update it with a maildrop or some sort of mail service? I was hoping that once I had rented somewhere, got a vehicle registered in my name that I would be able to give up the rental and that would be it as far as vehicle registration goes. I intended, once I move out of rented accomodation, to update the contact address to that of a maildrop.

Is the procedure for updating an address exactly the same as registering for the first time, or is it something that can be done simply online? I do remember vaguely reading something about renewing the NIE stuff but I just assumed I'd get a login to manage things on line and that updating an address would be an easy thing to do in that manner.

Login, update address, done - that sort of thing!


----------



## EX-1 (Jun 12, 2013)

BTW, I forgot to ask Jo, why should I be concerned about health insurance?

According to articles around the web I'm entitled to free health insurance because I'm well and truly under the 100.000 Euro threshold! If they think I'm shelling out for private healthcare on what will be a practically non exitent income, they are asking the impossible.

Healthcare insurance costs more than what I live on per week!


----------



## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

EX-1 said:


> BTW, I forgot to ask Jo, why should I be concerned about health insurance?
> 
> According to articles around the web I'm entitled to free health insurance because I'm well and truly under the 100.000 Euro threshold! If they think I'm shelling out for private healthcare on what will be a practically non exitent income, they are asking the impossible.
> 
> Healthcare insurance costs more than what I live on per week!


if you take a look in our FAQs sticky thread there are links to comparison websites for Health Insurance - http://www.expatforum.com/expats/sp...-living-spain/2725-faqs-lots-useful-info.html 



this is from there too


----------



## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

EX-1 - you've mentioned 'major websites' a couple of times - I'm curious as to which ones you've been getting the info from

PM me if they're websites or forums like this though


----------



## larryzx (Jul 2, 2014)

Free health care if:- 

"If you registered as a resident in Spain before 24 April 2012, have an annual income of less than €100,000 and are not covered for healthcare though any other means, speak to your local INSS office to register for healthcare in Spain as a resident."

See:- https://www.gov.uk/healthcare-in-spain


----------



## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

EX-1 said:


> *Jo*, I'm sorry to hear of the fire and pleased you're safe, but on the other hand you have my deepest sympathy for having to stomach this place once more after living in Spain. I hope you manage to get back to Spain ASAP!
> 
> As far as I'm concerned, England is never coming out of recession, not in our lifetime or even that of your childrens lifetime. One thing I feel absolutely certain of is that if/when one of these countries does recover, Spain will be the first and England will be many, many years behind it.


It has to be said tho, for all the UKs faults and yes, it has many; It is so much easier and far less harsh than Spain - to its detriment maybe, but at least in the UK, you know the rules, you are protected and you have good access to financial and social help if the worst happens.

In Spain, even the nationals, should they lose their jobs, only get help for a limited period and then only if they've paid in, there is no help with housing, many rely on charity or family - there's nothing else. not easy when they have mass unemployment, which shadows the UKs problem. As a foreigner, there is no NHS if you havent paid into their system, there is no easy help or assistance.

Spain can be a harsh country and to live there comfortably, you need a good steady income. 

But no, there is no healthcare in Spain unless you've paid into their system, or you are a UK pensioner and then the UK will offer you the S1 form to enable reciprocal care

Jo xxx


----------



## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

EX-1 said:


> BTW, I forgot to ask Jo, why should I be concerned about health insurance?
> 
> According to articles around the web I'm entitled to free health insurance because I'm well and truly under the 100.000 Euro threshold! If they think I'm shelling out for private healthcare on what will be a practically non exitent income, they are asking the impossible.
> 
> Healthcare insurance costs more than what I live on per week!


Ahem - it is the British Government which has stopped paying for the healthcare of people who move to other countries within the EU whilst they are under state retirement age, by no longer issuing residual S1 forms wef 1 July 2014, so you'd best take issue with them about that!

Yes, Spain will expect you to have private medical insurance for at least the first 12 months of your residency here. After that, depending on which autonomous region you live in, you may be able to pay the convenio especial to obtain state health coverage (although this costs €60 per person per month for under 65s). Andalucia hasn't yet signed up to this.

As Larry has pointed out the free healthcare for people within an income below €100,000 pa only applies to those who were already registered as residents in 2012.


----------



## larryzx (Jul 2, 2014)

jojo said:


> But no, there is no healthcare in Spain unless you've paid into their system, or you are a UK pensioner and then the UK will offer you the S1 form to enable reciprocal care
> 
> Jo xxx


OR unless you qualify as per my post, like an 80 year old friend of mine from USA has (and his much younger Chinese wife as his dependant) although never having paid a penny (or Euro cent) into the health care system in UK or Spain


----------



## EX-1 (Jun 12, 2013)

Thanks all, but before I go any further I just like to ask, regards the insurance requirement, is this absolutely a requirement to become resident or is it just something they highly recommend?

Also, whether or not it is required, does this only apply to getting the residence certificate or does it apply to getting that initial basic NIE as well? From what you've all told me I'm pretty sure I don't need it for that but I'm just double-checking.

Thing is, I have no ties, no one I need to worry about so health insurance has no interest for me, it would be nothing more than pointless extortion. If I become ill, that's my problem, I'll deal with it one way or another but I don't see why I should be forced to pay for something I don't want. As far as I'm concerned the only thing I'd have that would be worth insuring, would be my van! If I couldn't give a crap about insuring myself I don't see why anyone else should dictate such things to me, not least the Spanish government.

If I get unlucky and I'm not insured, it hurts no one but myself, so no, I won't be forced into paying for things that I have no concerns about.


----------



## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

EX-1 said:


> Thanks all, but before I go any further I just like to ask, regards the insurance requirement, is this absolutely a requirement to become resident or is it just something they highly recommend?
> 
> Also, whether or not it is required, does this only apply to getting the residence certificate or does it apply to getting that initial basic NIE as well? From what you've all told me I'm pretty sure I don't need it for that but I'm just double-checking.
> 
> ...


You have to have proof of health cover to become a resident. You dont need it for a 90 day NIE - but if you dont have it, then you are leaving yourself in for trouble - what if you break your leg, have a heart attack, get run over, get an ear infection....... anything??!! At best, they'll get you to sign to agree to pay when they've treated you, cos no, they wont leave you dying in the street - and they WILL find you and you WILL have to pay! And theres the scenario that you need to be flown back to the UK - thats extortionate and if you're incapacitated, you wont have a say. 

Gone are the days when you could simply and peacefully move over to Spain and live without responsibility. You know have to adhere to the regulations of both Spain and the EU

Jo xxx


----------



## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

EX-1 said:


> Thanks all, but before I go any further I just like to ask, regards the insurance requirement, is this absolutely a requirement to become resident or is it just something they highly recommend?
> 
> Also, whether or not it is required, does this only apply to getting the residence certificate or does it apply to getting that initial basic NIE as well? From what you've all told me I'm pretty sure I don't need it for that but I'm just double-checking.
> 
> ...


you don't need health insurance for a NIE - but you do to register as resident

you sound as if you're planning to live under the radar somewhat 


what happens if you get sick & you can't pay? We had a post here recently from someone whose friend was taken into hospital with no insurance - had been here years & hadn't registered as resident (though as a pensioner would have had the healthcare tab picked up by the UK anyway, if she had) 

after less than a weekend in hospital the bill was over 2000€ for tests...........


----------



## EX-1 (Jun 12, 2013)

*Jo*, that's what they think.

I can assure you that no matter what country I am in, if I happen to be there without insurance and someone treats me without my permission, then no, I will not be paying them a penny for it - try as they might, they will not succeed. I will not pay for something I don't want, don't require, or never asked for.

If someone treats me without my permission, that is their problem, not mine. If they're worried about being paid for an emergency situation, the scum need to do a disappearing act before involving themselves. Healthcare should be an automatic right, not an extortion racket.

If for example it was serious but I were still concious, I can decide whether I want their assistance based on the serioussness and the level of extortion they have planned. If I'm unconcious, however, I cannot do that, and they have a choice to leave me to die or to help me, either way it would make no difference to me, they won't get a penny more out of me than I feel is warranted for the work they did without my permission.

Like I said, I'm prepared to take the risk of not having health insurence, that is my freedom, I won't pay for it if I do not want it. If I have a heart attack and no one helps, that's fine by me, at least I wasn't constanly extorted during the life I did have. Like I said, I have no one to worry about so I couldn't give a crap either way.

It's my life, my body, and I'll use it and abuse it however I wish providing it doesn't effect others. You no doubt think I'm crazy, but then again, I think everyone who fell for the rat race and lumbered themselves with a mortgage are way more crazy than I am 



*Xabiachica,* I wouldn't go as far as to say _"under the radar"_, it's more a determination to avoid the rat race most people have lumbered themselves with (notice I said most, not all). I'm not doing the rat race thing, I'm not buying property because I don't want to live static. I'm not buying health insurance because I have no need for it. I'm not going to lumber myself with a mortgage so that the government can suck me dry for the rest of my life.

I'm going to buy a van, I'm going to live in it, and I'm going to travel. To support myself I will offer design plans (I'm an _extremely_ telented designer) for free on a website but with a request for donations. This will ensure I'm never under a self-employment system, and with such minimal income, I will never fall under taxation either.

I am going to live a simple life, solar power, away from the energy companies, away from the mortgages, the banks, and the life-sucking governments. Basically, I throroughly intend to avoid all that is collectively known as _"The Rat Race"_.

Some like it, but I'm not one of them


----------



## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

EX-1 said:


> *Jo*, that's what they think.
> 
> I can assure you that no matter what country I am in, if I happen to be there without insurance and someone treats me without my permission, then no, I will not be paying them a penny for it - try as they might, they will not succeed. I will not pay for something I don't want, don't require, or never asked for.
> 
> ...


Thats not how it works and you know that - there are too many scenarios to go into that would negate what you claim or want from a non fatal heart attack in the street, to being beaten up and left half dead...... and its no good being belligerent. Those are the rules, if you dont like them, then dont go there - sorry, I dont mean to sound harsh, but you know what I mean!


In the end it maybe your life, your body, but its their country and their rules. 


Jo xxx


----------



## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

EX-1 said:


> *Jo*, that's what they think.
> 
> I can assure you that no matter what country I am in, if I happen to be there without insurance and someone treats me without my permission, then no, I will not be paying them a penny for it - try as they might, they will not succeed. I will not pay for something I don't want, don't require, or never asked for.
> 
> ...



free for a donation???


so you'll be registering as a non-profit org then? or a charity??


it's a recipe for disaster in my opinion

yes, your life - yes your body

but who will pick up the bill if it all goes wrong?

just by _being here _3 months you are obliged to register as resident

just by _being here _183 days a calendar year you are obliged to submit a tax return - earning or not

you aren't planning to do either - so yes - you are planning to live under the radar....... totally


----------



## larryzx (Jul 2, 2014)

EX 1 you cannot legally live here unless you abide by the rules. One of those is having health cover. If you do qualify for free cover, and cannot afford to, or do not want to get private cover, you cannot live here.


----------



## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

larryzx said:


> EX 1 you cannot legally live here unless you abide by the rules. One of those is having health cover. If you do qualify for free cover, and cannot afford to, or do not want to get private cover, you cannot live here.


Should that be "If you do *NOT*qualify for free cover"?


EX-1 - whilst I understand your wishes, Spain is simply not for you.

You want to live somewhere without rules - Spain is not that place. 

Go find a dessert island somewhere - oh you can't do that because you'll need roads and petrol stations etc.!


----------



## EX-1 (Jun 12, 2013)

Collectively, in reply to the last posts:

Yes, you are correct, it is their country and their rules, and unlike hundreds of thousand of people residing in Spain illegally, I never will reside there or anywhere else, illegally. If I cannot live in Spain legally then I will not live in Spain, it's that simple.

I haven't spent years of my life trying to get to the facts so that I can come their illegally, cos you know what, if I wanted to do that, all I would have to do is simply buy my van and live _"Under The Radar"_ as it were.

The bottom line is I am going to live the lifestyle I want to live, and I have a prioritised list of countries in which I wish to live that lifestlye. I will continue with it until I reach my goal (100% legally). I should also point out that although Spain is clearly off limits for residency due to the health insurance bollocks, it is still not off limits entirely.

All I would need to do is abide by "tourist" terms instead, and none of that beurocratic crap will apply to me. So you see, while the Spanish government are free to practice this crap, I am also free to decide whether I want to abide by it or not. In this case the answer is "Not", because I am not going to be forced into paying for health insurance I don't care about. I have the freedom of choice not to become a resident and therefore avoid all this crap. The only problem is, doing it the "tourist way" means I will have to explore Spain with UK plates and time my exploration of neighboring countires, and I was really hoping to avoid that being I read that Spanish cops appear to get kicks out of harassing law abiding British citizens with cars.

I was also hoping I would never have to set foot in this sh*t-hole of a country again, but doing it the "tourist way" I would have to in order to MOT the van each year if I have UK plates.

Back to what Jo said about picking up the pieces, again, no one is asking them to pick up the pieces. I don't care about what they need to pick up because no one is asking them to do so. By not having health insurance I make the decision to either deal with it or die, and like I said, the only person who gets to decide that is me - not them.

I'm a law abiding citizen and therefore they will never find themselves in a position of power to make such decisions for me, I simply never will be a "resident" of Spain. As pointed out above, I can legally reside in Spain without private health insurance. I'm not going to buy travel insurance, either, which again, is a decision I get to make based on the risk factor.

The only insurance I am going to pay is for my van because that is the only thing that would have any value for me. It's also needed in case of a third party incident, so even if van insurance wasn't required I would still pay for it because that is a risk I would not want to take.

My van is more important than I am, that sounds ridiculous, but then again, we all know who is to blame for a system that makes such comments a reality, don't we?

I'll give you a clue, it's the same people who, in the year 2014, think it's acceptable to have a system so poor that people need to pay for health insurance. It's every biy as outrageous as having to pay for the air you breathe, because either way, whether it is your health insurance or your "air bill" you cannot pay - you will die either way.

lol


----------



## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

EX-1 said:


> Collectively, in reply to the last posts:
> 
> Yes, you are correct, it is their country and their rules, and unlike hundreds of thousand of people residing in Spain illegally, I never will reside there or anywhere else, illegally. If I cannot live in Spain legally then I will not live in Spain, it's that simple.
> 
> ...


well if you're going to be a tourist............

you'll never be here 3 months consecutively 

& you'll never clock up 183 days a calendar year



why didn't you say so in the first place!!


----------



## EX-1 (Jun 12, 2013)

Like I said, I didn't want to do it the tourist way because it means I'd have to use a van with British plates. I'd rather not do that but it looks as if I'll have to due to the healthcare crap. They're not forcing healthcare insurance premiums out of me because I couldn't care less about it.

If it means I'll have to use UK plates, I'll do that.


----------



## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

EX-1 said:


> Like I said, I didn't want to do it the tourist way because it means I'd have to use a van with British plates. I'd rather not do that but it looks as if I'll have to due to the healthcare crap. They're not forcing healthcare insurance premiums out of me because I couldn't care less about it.
> 
> If it means I'll have to use UK plates, I'll do that.


just make sure you can always prove that you've been out of the country then

if you came to the attention of the police & they suspected that you were really living here, then the onus is upon you to prove that you aren't - not the other way around


& please moderate your language here, too


----------



## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

EX-1 said:


> Like I said, I didn't want to do it the tourist way because it means I'd have to use a van with British plates. I'd rather not do that but it looks as if I'll have to due to the healthcare crap. They're not forcing healthcare insurance premiums out of me because I couldn't care less about it.
> 
> If it means I'll have to use UK plates, I'll do that.


....... and only stay there for 90 days... and get a EHIC card. Afterall, even you dont want to fall over badly on the pavement and have to lay there for several days, bleeding, with you guts all over the place and folk having to step over you - they may sue you for obstructing lol!!! And you may not actually die, you maybe left disabled and in need of further medical intervention for the rest of your days


out of interest and actually it could matter, have you ever paid into the UK, by way of NI contributions??

Jo xxx


----------



## EX-1 (Jun 12, 2013)

xabiachica said:


> just make sure you can always prove that you've been out of the country then
> 
> if you came to the attention of the police & they suspected that you were really living here, then the onus is upon you to prove that you aren't - not the other way around
> 
> ...


What language, I haven't said any swear words, you don't mean the crap word, do you? 
If so, my apologies, I honestly don't see that as a swear word or I wouldn't have used it.

Regards the requirement to prove my movements, I think I have that one sorted quite easily although I'd have to ask about it first, just to be sure. I was thinking of getting one of those iPads. I read they are massive privacy invasion tools. I hear they can have the camera and mic switched on at the request of the government and be used as a bug without your permission, analyze your voice, read your emails, listen to your VOIP and record everything you do including monitoring the type of movement you make (so I recommend people try not to masturbate while holding one of these devices, or if you must, for God's sake be sure to put a sticker over the cameras first).

Yeah, I can imagine Apple's data records might look something like this:

*- Type of movement detected* = Rapid forward/backward movement.
*- Image displayed on device at time of said movement* = A naked female (Dear God, that narrows it down a bit, dear Watson).
*- Image captured by face cam at time of said movement* = A man with a euphoric expression on his face (see Apple ID for details of captured person).
*- Comment from Siri at time of said movement* = Not again!

But anyway, you get the idea, and the main thing here is that these devices can monitor your movement in the world and plot it out on a world map, so I was thinking, surely that would be perfect for me? If I were to switch on the feature that allows the iPad to track my movement and plot it out on a map of the world with "great accuracy", surely that would be ideal proof? It would not only show my tracks, but even the times at which each point was reached. Has anyone done that, or anyone had a problem using it as proof?

Seems the ideal solution to me, and don't get me wrong, I'm not endorsing iPads or in fact anything Apple produces.
But unless I can get locked-up for my taste in Trance music, I'm not going to loose sleep over owning one.




jojo said:


> ....... and only stay there for 90 days... and get a EHIC card. Afterall, even you dont want to fall over badly on the pavement and have to lay there for several days, bleeding, with you guts all over the place and folk having to step over you - they may sue you for obstructing lol!!! And you may not actually die, you maybe left disabled and in need of further medical intervention for the rest of your days
> 
> 
> out of interest and actually it could matter, have you ever paid into the UK, by way of NI contributions??
> ...


But Jo, in order to pay NI contributions you need a job!

I can design anything from a logo to a multi-million pound yacht. But you see, despite I have over 25 years of experience in design, it means nothing here because I'm self-taught. Here, you need a pointless piece of paper called a qualification. Qualifications given out by people who aren't in the same league as I am and aren't fit to polish my shoes.

Regards that 90 day thing, just to be sure, the way I undertand it is I have to leave no later than 90 days and then I can come back right away providing that I do not stay more than 180 days in every 365, is that correct?

I know about the EHIC, no problem me getting that (god, that makes a change)


----------



## castaway06 (Jul 25, 2014)

Spain is not for you. If was you I'd try one of the east European countries that are just emerging from the stoneage.

Lets assume you do get your Spanish van with Spanish plates, you know you have to have an ITV (MOT) every year? and pay tax on the vehicle to the appropriate town hall every year? And the local police are currently on an mission to set up spontaneous little check points to catch people with no (or out of date) ITV stickers, and they have natty little computers in their cars where they can look up your details, and that there is nothing they like better than calling for Gruguas to tow away a vehicle .......


----------



## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

castaway06 said:


> Spain is not for you. If was you I'd try one of the east European countries that are just emerging from the stoneage.
> 
> Lets assume you do get your Spanish van with Spanish plates, you know you have to have an ITV (MOT) every year? and pay tax on the vehicle to the appropriate town hall every year? And the local police are currently on an mission to set up spontaneous little check points to catch people with no (or out of date) ITV stickers, and they have natty little computers in their cars where they can look up your details, and that there is nothing they like better than calling for Gruguas *to tow away a vehicle* .......


especially foreign plated cars of residents of Spain....


----------



## EX-1 (Jun 12, 2013)

Well, castaway, at the very least I'm pleased to hear that locals get harrassed by the Police as well as the Brits, makes it a bit more fair I suppose. Yes, they sound as if they are what my father used to call "Power Mad".

It does beg the question though, as it looks as if I'll be using UK plates, which parts of Spain are generally to be avoided, and which of them are perhaps relatively free from harassment by power mad police? I'm assuming that somewhere like Benidorm would be easy going due to the sheer amount of Brits there, I can imagine the place must be littered with UK-plated cars.

Ibiza, that's an interesting one as well due to it being such a metropolitan place and again, extremely popular with Brits. So to hazard a guess I'd say Benidorm and Ibiza are less likely to suffer from harassment in that respect, but of course I could be wrong.

PS, I hope my post on the previous page didn't get missed. I noticed the other posts were just one or two minutes after mine so it might have got missed. If anyone knows, I really would love to know about that iPad thing because it seems ideal to me, I can't imagine anything better suited to the task.


----------



## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

EX-1 said:


> Well, castaway, at the very least I'm pleased to hear that locals get harrassed by the Police as well as the Brits, makes it a bit more fair I suppose. Yes, they sound as if they are what my father used to call "Power Mad".
> 
> It does beg the question though, as it looks as if I'll be using UK plates, which parts of Spain are generally to be avoided, and which of them are perhaps relatively free from harassment by power mad police? I'm assuming that somewhere like Benidorm would be easy going due to the sheer amount of Brits there, I can imagine the place must be littered with UK-plated cars.
> 
> ...


UK plates will be no problem at all anywhere -if you're here on holiday - so for less than 3 months & *can prove it if questioned


*


----------



## Barriej (Jul 23, 2012)

EX-1 said:


> It does beg the question though, as it looks as if I'll be using UK plates, which parts of Spain are generally to be avoided, and which of them are perhaps relatively free from harassment by power mad police? I'm assuming that somewhere like Benidorm would be easy going due to the sheer amount of Brits there, I can imagine the place must be littered with UK-plated cars.
> 
> Ibiza, that's an interesting one as well due to it being such a metropolitan place and again, extremely popular with Brits. So to hazard a guess I'd say Benidorm and Ibiza are less likely to suffer from harassment in that respect, but of course I could be wrong.


I would think twice about Benidorm if I were you. Last time we were there a friend of ours said the local police were out checking Reg numbers. But not just uk ones, I know a Dutch couple who drive their car down twice a year and they have been stopped as well. 
Ibiza might be ok, but I mentioned in another thread (or even this one) that the ferry ports were photographing all licence plates as they went through, this information may soon be shared across Europe so the spanish police would know when you left the uk. 

Oh and just for fun, those unmanned border crossings in mainland Europe have imaging cameras as well. I got stopped going from holland to Germany once in my uk plated car as I'd been through the same crossing four times in six months. 

I could go on about using credit n debit cards and the logging systems. But I won't. I would love to live under the radar, nice little plot of land grow my own stuff, make the machine that makes the machine. But these days it's not possible someone WILL always know where you are. Sorry, but I do wish you luck.


----------



## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

EX-1;4797962
I'll give you a clue said:


> pay[/U] for health insurance. It's every biy as outrageous as having to pay for the air you breathe, because either way, whether it is your health insurance or your "air bill" you cannot pay - you will die either way.
> 
> lol


Spain has a very good healthcare system which is free at the point of use - to Spanish citizens and foreigners who are working here and paying social security contributions to pay for the salaries of the doctors, nurses and other workers, and the myriad of other costs incurred in running the hospitals and medical centres. It is also free at the point of use to immigrants from other EU countries whose Governments agree to pay Spain for their medical treatment. In the case of the UK, that now applies only to pensioners.

If not paid for out of taxation, where exactly do you think the money to run a healthcare system should come from? 

You, and anyone else now wishing to move to Spain who is below pension age, do not have the right to receive treatment from a system you have contributed nothing to, and in your case have no intention of ever contributing anything to it. You obviously believe you are a very special person, but frankly Spain no importa un camino. And nor should they


----------



## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

I've just read thru your posts EX and you are full of contradictions. You are happy to accept the good things that being part of the "rat race" brings, but not if it doesnt suit the sort of life you want to live. You cant have it all. You have to compromise and accept the systems in place that make our countries safe, "first world" and pretty much fair to everyone..... or find a country that isnt part of said rat race, find a country that allows you to dip in and out, that allows folk not to pay taxes, not to have free healthcare, unless they want it, that doesnt have "silly" rules and regulations that foreigners have to follow. But you like the convenience of an ipad, the internet, a van, roads, the freedom of living in a non violent country - because they have rules and a police force imposing them - but they need to let you live as you want???

Where would be like that??? A country that would let anyone who wants to live under the radar??? But still has law and order??

Thats a hard one!! I'm not putting you or your ideas down, I'm simply trying to make you think about what you want and how you can achieve it sensibly and without getting into trouble, physically, mentally, financially or legally 

Jo xxx


----------



## EX-1 (Jun 12, 2013)

*Barriej,* thanks for the heads-up although I have to point out again, I'm not worried about officials seeing when and where I go, I have nothing to hide and they'll have nothing to accuse me off. This is why I need to know the rules before I do this stuff, it's why I'm so bothered about it.

Regards living off the land and doing your own thing, _"the machine that makes the machine"_, like any other normal human being that is something I would love to do, and you're right, it's not possible because the ******* make it impossible for you to do so, I totally hear you, you have no idea how much I've tried for that myself. Every person should have the right to go their own way and be self sufficient using their own land without any costs to them providing that nothing is requested of the state. If you want something from someone else, you pay, and if you do it yourself through your own land, you shouldn't need to.

I know for a fact that when people read my posts that they think I'm either strange or up to no good. the simple fact of the matter is that I'm simply someone who is not going to be dragged into the rat race, it's that simple. Your avarage _"mortgaged to the death"_ rat-racer has no idea that millions of people choose to live a lifestlye very different to theirs, it's jsut that they never see this lifestly because their world revolves around bills, benefits, corrupt councils, banks, and whatever other **** goes hand in hand with being what is technically a human sheep.

It's funny as well, because people often get offended when they realise those that live alternative lifestlyes see them as sheep. They literally do what almost everyone else does and then, for some strange reason, they get all upset when it's pointed out to them what they're actually doing.

But anyway, don't get me started, I could go on for hours 

Thanks for the encouragement, and although I cannot live that same dream you mentioned of self-sufficiency, living off my own land, one thing I can gurantee is that I will live the mobile lifestly I have decided uon, nothing will stop me from doing that.


*Lynn,* I think healthcare should not be charged for and that it should be regarded as an essential element of a healthy life for the resident of a country. Same with water, you should not be charged for water, it should be free and a right. All of this should be paid through taxation.

Provisions should be made for the fact that visitors between countries need to be provided for as a matter of common sense, it's that simple really. How did you get your helthcare before they started charging you for it? How did you get treated water before they started charging for it?

Just like the liberties being taken with charging taxes on a persons own land, charging for healthcare and water (both essential) is a liberty and it's an unacceptable practice if you're expecting to live in a worry free and fair environment. Most governments of the world have it so that you are enslaved from early on in your life. Most people slave endlessly for their entire lifes just to pay for a house. A house is something that should be provided to every individual of a population free of charge, again, paid for through taxation.

Does that all sound a bit too unreralistic?

If it does then you need to remember that you never used to pay for healthcare and you never used to pay for water. And as for the houses, there is a country where they do exactly that, they award every member of the population a house. The residents of this country are not enslaved for a lifetime to get it, it's given to them as a right. As a result the country has no housing price worries and the population have no worries about their home.

What is this country?

I could tell you, but if I did that, you would miss out on all the things you would learn if I were to tell you to Google it. Learning is good, it stops people being led into the gillibility trap that gets you landed with lifetime enslavement/entrapment stuff like mortgages etc.

Landing yourself with a mortgage - priceless!!!
For everything else there's an alternative lifestlye 

So in closing this reply, no, I don't think I'm special. If pursuing an alternative lifestlye that millions of people around the world pursue makes me special, I feel honored at your comment. Personally I just see myself as someone who is not going to do the rat race thing, I never have and never will.


----------



## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

EX-1 said:


> Collectively, in reply to the last posts:
> 
> Yes, you are correct, it is their country and their rules, and unlike hundreds of thousand of people residing in Spain illegally, I never will reside there or anywhere else, illegally. If I cannot live in Spain legally then I will not live in Spain, it's that simple.
> 
> ...



Ahh...I get it.
You want to be free live the lifestyle you want.
Son of Thatcher
You want to live off Spain, not in Spain....or any other country you choose.
Try not to get involved in a major accident in your van..it may come off worse thanyou.
Then what?


----------



## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

castaway06 said:


> Spain is not for you. If was you I'd try one of the east European countries that are just emerging from the stoneage.
> 
> Lets assume you do get your Spanish van with Spanish plates, you know you have to have an ITV (MOT) every year? and pay tax on the vehicle to the appropriate town hall every year? And the local police are currently on an mission to set up spontaneous little check points to catch people with no (or out of date) ITV stickers, and they have natty little computers in their cars where they can look up your details, and that there is nothing they like better than calling for Gruguas to tow away a vehicle .......


Those Eastern Europea countries you describe as 'emerging from the Stone Age' just love these free living free wheeling western tourists...especially their police service. 
All those on- the- spot fines...try arguing with Bulgarian traffic cop as he pockets the fine youjust handed over..

Incidentally, Poland, Czech Republic, Hungary and Slovakia are way out of the Stone Age...they passed the Age of Steam abou twenty-'five years ago.


----------



## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

> Thanks for the encouragement, and although I cannot live that same dream you mentioned of self-sufficiency, living off my own land, one thing I can gurantee is that I will live the mobile lifestly I have decided uon, nothing will stop me from doing that.


No they cant stop you, but wow, what a stressful existence - especially in Spain, the authorities will "play" with you and make your life very difficult if/when they know what you're trying to do. Which effectively, is live off their hard work and expect to be protected by the rules you flout. What do I mean by that??? Ok, someone steals/trashes your van and/or your belongings, someone beats you senseless, trust me, there are folk who would see you as a bit of sport to hound. The guardia move you and your van on cos its a nuisance, maybe not in your eyes, but Spains rules arent about you..... What are you going to do if any of this happens??? - especially in the winter when its very cold, wet and windy and your chosen freedom means you have nothing left to lose. Spain is harsh, they wont help you at all - they wouldnt even give you your fare home. At best they may lock you up in a penitentiary?? 

Anyway, as has been established that we're going round in circles, you have the answers, you make the choice. But prepare and plan sensibly and within the confines of the country you're planning to live off.



Jo xxx


----------



## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

EX-1 said:


> *Lynn,* I think healthcare should not be charged for and that it should be regarded as an essential element of a healthy life for the resident of a country. Same with water, you should not be charged for water, it should be free and a right. All of this should be paid through taxation.
> 
> Provisions should be made for the fact that visitors between countries need to be provided for as a matter of common sense, it's that simple really. How did you get your helthcare before they started charging you for it? How did you get treated water before they started charging for it?
> 
> ...


I have an idea for how you could help to finance your lifestyle in Spain - sell tickets for your first encounter with a Spanish funcionario or Guardia Civil. It would be most entertaining to watch you trying to explain your preferred lifestyle and why it should entitle you to opt out of all their petty rules and regulations, and worth every cent of the ticket price. Call them human sheep during the harangue, it will help you no end to convince them.

How did we get our healthcare before we had to pay for it through taxation? Actually we didn't get any (except if we were "lucky" enough to be treated as a charity case in primitive conditions and people died of conditions which are easily treatable today). Working class people lived in fear of them or their children becoming ill because they couldn't afford the doctor's fee. Strangely they didn't seem to share your willingness to just lie down and die if they couldn't pay.

As for water, poor people didn't have clean water supplies (and much of the world still doesn't - the countries where you could no doubt just pitch up in your van and not be bothered with trifling annoyances like laws and taxation). They didn't have housing with water on tap, toilets and sewerage, thus disease was rife and killed a lot of them off. The improvements came about in the late 19th century (although in the slums many were still living in unsanitary conditions well into the 1950s, yes in the UK) - funded by? Taxation.

I met lots of people with ideas like yours back in the '70s who despised we "breadheads" as we were called then. Don't think your ideas are anything new, I've heard it all before. As someone who's been living here since the age of 50, in a nice comfortable house mortgage-free, rather than a van, with enough money to finance ourselves for at least 10 years including paying for private health insurance which we didn't object to as we've not contributed a penny to the Spanish health system and don't expect to be subsidised by the people who have, and decent pensions which come into payment soon to provide us with a comfortable old age (hope you still enjoy living in that van when you're 80), I just find your idea that I'm in a situation of lifetime entrapment and slavery rather amusing.

Have a nice life in your van, you're welcome to it, but if you expect Spain to make any accommodations in their laws and regulations to suit you, you'll be sadly disappointed.


----------



## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

EX-1 said:


> *Jo*
> 
> As far as I'm concerned, England is never coming out of recession, not in our lifetime or even that of your childrens lifetime. One thing I feel absolutely certain of is that if/when one of these countries moves out of recession, Spain will be first.
> !


Hmm...it looks as if with inflation at 0.4% Spain is heading for deflation. UK growth rising. Expectations of an interest rate rise and. Troubles in the eurozone strengthening the £ .

So..the UK IS coming out of recssion, Spain has major structural problems hindering economic growth...and that little matter of over six million- 25% - unemployed.


----------



## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

jojo said:


> ..., they wont help you at all - they wouldnt even give you your fare home. ......
> 
> 
> Jo xxx


and neither would the British Consulate....


----------



## larryzx (Jul 2, 2014)

EX1, I think you might find everywhere in Spain a bit of a problem, as you seem to be disrespectful of authority and want/think you can do it "your way".

However, if you just stick within the law, and be polite, I think like me, with 27 years here, you too will not have any problems.


----------



## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

EX-1 said:


> *Barriej,*
> 
> 
> I know for a fact that when people read my posts that they think I'm either strange or up to no good.QUOTE
> ...


----------



## EX-1 (Jun 12, 2013)

*Xabiachica,* what's the problem? - I'm asking questions and getting answers which is what is to be expected on a forum such as this. I'm getting good answers and I'm taking note of those answers. So far I've discovered that going the residence route is not going to happen for two reasons:

*- They are demanding health insurance I am not going to pay.
- They appear to have a system which has no provision for those who intend to get by on measley donations.*

I have decided therefore *(because I intend to be legal)*, that the residence route is not suitable for me. If people don't like to hear explanations then they should not ask questions. My posts here are answers to questions and comments others have posted, that's what a forum is for. It is the ludicrous _"under the radar"_ misinterpretation of me that is the problem here. If it's somehow incomprehensible for people to understand that those who choose to live on the move, are not criminals, then those people have problems I certainly cannot help them with. I see no problem with what I've asked and what I wrote.

*To clarify, the situatuion is this:

- I am going to buy a van and live in it, I am going to travel and support myself through donations.
- Being a British citizen I am entitled to do this in Spain, and I will indeed be doing this in Spain.
- I am asking very specific questions and am really only interested in answers to those questions (or other things that actually matter).
- I'm not interested in anyones sworded imagination, or what they "think" about me.*

The question that remains so far is this:

*- Is iPad movement tracking sufficient enought for the beurocratic Spanish to accept as movement between countries?*

I don't see why that question would cause you to post your _"round and round"_ comment. It's simply a question I've asked and I'm hoping someone can answer through experience. There are millions of people using these devices accross the world so I think it's reasonable enough to expect an answer to it sooner or later, there must be millions of these things is Spain.

Normally, I would have no interest in owning such a privacy invasive device as an iPad. However, due to the tracking accuracy I intend to use it as a means to shove it in their beurocratic faces so that they have no way to deny the proof of me being *legally* in their country. I intend to use it as a dummy (or pacifier as the Americans call it), basically just something I can shove in their mouth to pacify their beurocracy. If it ever came to me needing to actually show this proof, I will of course hand over the iPad with a smile, but meanwhile I'll be quietly thinking to myself...

*"There, suck on that, now get back in your shiny white car, get back to your boring monotonous life, and let me get on with mine".*

That sort of thing, that's all I want an iPad for 


*Jo,* I'm lost for words actually. I honestly don't know how to reply to your post because I can't help what other people think or how other people see me. I'm not bothered about luxuries (and an iPad would be the last of my list of luxuries). I'm not saying I don't like luxuries or don't want them. What I'm saying though, is that if a choice had to be made between, for example, freedom to own my own tax free land and live of it, or to take the slavery route of the rat race with it's luxiries, I would choose the first option in a heartbeat.

Unfortunately, what Barriej pointed out, is true. It is not possible to do that in either the UK or Spain, they are effectively forcing you into a lifestyle that allows the them to bleed you senseless. I am perfectly happy to move to a lawless country if it means I have my freedom, away from this stuff, but as that is not possible either, living simply and on the move is the next best thing.

So where is this country where I can get guaranteed residence and would not be required to pay taxes on land that I own? Where is it? tell me and I'll be over there before you can say _"up the beurocrats"._ They don't exist Jo, you cannot do that even in third world coutries that are war-torn!

Seriously though, anyone know of a country that will give you guaranteed residence without involving sums of money? Any countries out there that are so fair that a poor person struggling to survive is free come there and be allowed to make his own way in life without the intervention of things he does not want and has no interest in?

Yeah right 

I know what you mean Jo, but unfortunately most people are too blind to understand what I mean. I see living on the move as the best way to avoid as much of this **** as possible. I also see a non-static lifestyle as being far superior to being locked down in one place all the time. Of course I'm happy for those that live like that, just as long as they're happy themselves. But as you can see, it's just a shame the attitude is hardly ever mutual towards those that choose the mobile lifestyle.


----------



## EX-1 (Jun 12, 2013)

Sorry, I just missed a whole bunch of posts, I'll reply later


----------



## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

EX-1 said:


> Sorry, I just missed a whole bunch of posts, I'll reply later


I think we've all said most of what needs to be said. 

I'm off for a swim in our pool.

Baa.....


----------



## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

> Seriously though, anyone know of a country that will give you guaranteed residence without involving sums of money? Any countries out there that are so fair that a poor person struggling to survive is free come there and be allowed to make his own way in life without the intervention of things he does not want and has no need of


Yes, countries where the inhabitants are themselves so piss- poor and struggling survive that they wouldn't notice the arrival of a rich white Westerner priding himself on escaping a lifestyle they can only dream of...

Somalia, Democratic Republic of Congo, Bangladesh, Ethiopia are a few that spring to mind.
You certainly won't be pestered by people offering you bank accounts, healthcare and mortgages there.


----------



## KIP1958 (Aug 2, 2014)

EX1

There are people doing what you do and it is possible.
Basically you are going to live a Romany lifestyle.

Its not a lifestyle I would enjoy, but everyone to his own.

If you want to find out more how to do it then read this forum as there are a few people here who do it fulltime and probably can help you with all you need to know.

Fulltimer's Motorhomes | Motorhome365 Fulltimers Forum

http://www.motorhome365.com/forum/


----------



## EX-1 (Jun 12, 2013)

mrypg9 said:


> I think we've all said most of what needs to be said.
> 
> I'm off for a swim in our pool.
> 
> Baa.....


Ok, I must admit that made me laugh, made me smile, and I desperately needed one of those 

Well, I just sat down to my bread and butter lunch with a cup of lovely hot water to wash it all down nicely with. I read through the recent posts but it would take an age to answer it all individually, and the thing is, I do have answers for it all.

Again I'll have to answer this collectively because as usual, people are either not reading my posts correctly or they are obsessed with the notion of wrong doing. I really don't know how to make this any clearer than I have. I've even taken to carefully formatting the posts and outlining stuff in bold, yet for some reason, the situation is still not clear if the comments are anything to go by.

*Here we go:

- I am not child with a chip on his shoulder, I'm a 100% law-abiding male that is far from the age of a child.
- I have no intention of breaking any laws, this is why I need to know what I legally can and cannot do.
- The Spanish Police will never be in a position to prosecute or fine me because I will never do anything illegal.
- For that same reason, I am not in the least bit worried about the Spanish Police.
- Further comments on that subject will therefore fall on deaf ears because they have no relevance to me whatsoever.*

As for the whole "sheep" thing (Baa), well for starters I have nothing against such a thing providing the people who do it are happy. It works out for some but often not for others. It's not surprising it doesn't work out for others, and this year will see more families homeless and put out on the street because they followed the governments idea of an ideal.

As for statistics given by the UK governemt on recession, that would be good news if it were true. Lets just say that you're either of the mentality to believe all that stuff, or you're not. Personally, I'm of the mentality that doesn't believe a word they say. And as for the countries that got listed, I'm sorry but you cannot enter any of those countries as a foreigner and be guaranteed residency. Nor are you guranteed to be able to own untaxed land and make your own way with it.

Back to Spain, and to the comment that if I am law abiding then I'll have no problems. Great, perfect, spot-on, that is exactly the sort of life I intend to lead so why on earth is so difficult for people to grasp that? I'm starting to wonder if it's just a Spanish thing? Is this what living in Spain does to everyones mind? Is everyone who does something out of the norm automatically labelled a criminal over there or something?

It's starting to sound like that!

Oh, and before I forget, I really must ask mrypg9, are you wearing protection in that pool of yours? Reason I ask is that I read you were having water trouble with it and I wouldn't want you to go for a swim and turn green!

Baaa 

Oh and one other thing, please remember that propping yourself up in front of people struggling to survive really does you no favours at all. Doesn't it occur to you that if everyone had your sort of carefree lifestlye, then perhaps they wouldn't need to take the actions they take?

I realise you meant no harm by it, and I take no offence whatsoever. It's easy to swallow because although you like your lifestlye, your comment almost sounds as if you don't realise that others prefer a different lifestyle. I'd love to be in your position, but that doens not mean I won't be equally happy doing what I want to do.

- You have a pool you need to maintain, I have the beaches of Ibiza and a clear blue ocean that looks after itself 
- You have electricity bills, I have my ultra-bright friend in the sky.
- You have council tax and rates for your own property, I don't.

What I'm saying is that if you're happy then it's going to be easy for you to assume that it's what makes everyone else happy. That's not the way it works though. We're all human (apart from me I suppose) and we all have different preferences. I could never be happy being used as a muppet for the government, nor can I be happy being located in one place all the time. I will tolorate neither of these things.

So anyway, like I said, as the residency route is not viable for me I will have to use the tourist route. The only issue I see there regarding the beurocracy is the proof of my tracks so I really would love to know if an iPad is something suitable for that. I see no reason why not because everything is recorded and the data is stored by Apple.

*Kip,* just saw your post when I previewed this message, I will check that out, thankyou kindly sir!


----------



## EX-1 (Jun 12, 2013)

Lynn R said:


> I have an idea for how you could help to finance your lifestyle in Spain - sell tickets for your first encounter with a Spanish funcionario or Guardia Civil. It would be most entertaining to watch you trying to explain your preferred lifestyle and why it should entitle you to opt out of all their petty rules and regulations, and worth every cent of the ticket price. Call them human sheep during the harangue, it will help you no end to convince them.


You're right, it would be entertaining, though not quite as entertaining as posting a few "_proof of concept to completion"_ pics from Spain when I get there 
Better still, I'll take an opportunity to flag down the Guardia myself and ask for a photo of me together with them, hows that?

For all I know, the Guardia and Spanish Police might be good as gold!
Providing they don't piss me off, we'll get along fine


----------



## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

KIP1958 said:


> EX1
> 
> There are people doing what you do and it is possible.
> Basically you are going to live a Romany lifestyle.
> ...


Yes, there are a few people who do it. The successful ones are retirees or those who can afford to.
Shortly after we moved to Spain we encountered a young man who had come to Spain in a motor home. He came lookingfor work but found none. When we came across him he was in dire straits, reduced to eating nettles and flowers. He had parked his van on a piece of campo.
We took pity on him, he was a nice young man, we wanted to help.we fed him,clothed him, bought him bottled gas, food, food for his dog, hot baths, washed and ironed his clothes, gavehim an old laptop and a bike in return for doing odd jobs. We tried to find him legal work.
But he didn't want legal work. He didn't want to be a sheep, part of a system. He was happy to live on 'donations'.
He got moved on and joined up with a bunch of 'free spirits' likehim, all basically living off the charity and good will of the 'straights' they despise. They live off supermarket bins and stolen electricity.
I got tired of listening to lectures about freedom and the system whilst handing out stuff obtained from working within that system. I told him to **** off. Eventually he andhis mates and theirvans got moved on again.
I am not by nature a generous person butthis has furthered hardened my stony heart. These,people are living likeparasites off a system they claim to despise.

Not the kind of motor homing you are thinking of...


----------



## larryzx (Jul 2, 2014)

I owned a motorhome in USA for 6 months. 30 ft long, tow car on the back. I purchased the total rig for around 75,000 US Dollars, low value entry model, and stayed in camp grounds, never by the roadside or in car parks.

The town in Spain where I now live, tends to attracted motorhomes of a similar standard or better that that which had in USA. Nevertheless, there are still many complaints about “these free loaders who come here to enjoy our town without paying any taxes etc.” I usually try and explain that they are not penniless travellers and tinkers and that their vehicles cost many thousands of pounds. 

EX1 I do hope that you do not come to our town “in a van that you are sleeping in, living on donations” as we already have more than our fair shares of beggars ‘living on donations’ on our street.


----------



## brocher (Mar 21, 2011)

EX-1 said:


> Ok, I must admit that made me laugh, made me smile, and I desperately needed one of those
> 
> Well, I just sat down to my bread and butter lunch with a cup of lovely hot water to wash it all down nicely with. I read through the recent posts but it would take an age to answer it all individually, and the thing is, I do have answers for it all.
> 
> ...


<<- You have electricity bills, I have my ultra-bright friend in the sky.>>

The bright thing in the sky won't charge your ipad, and no, I don't think the local police will be at all interested in using your ipad to track your movements. I assume your planning on dodging in and out of Spain to remain a tourist- how will you fund all this travel? you need money to fuel, insure, license and maintain your motor home.

The bright thing in the sky won't cook your food either and be aware that lighting fires or barbecues is banned in much of the countryside during summer because of the danger of starting wild fires. 

in a country with 6 million unemployed, do you seriously think that people are going to give a foreign scrounger "donations' to live on - not a chance. 

And please tell me how you envisage any country being able to provide free healthcare. It must be paid for by some means, and if not via taxes, then how? if there is no income from some source then there can be no service- even a sticky plaster costs money. same goes for water, roads, police, fire brigade, the roads you want to drive on.....


----------



## Barriej (Jul 23, 2012)

EX-1 said:


> The only issue I see there regarding the beurocracy is the proof of my tracks so I really would love to know if an iPad is something suitable for that. I see no reason why not because everything is recorded and the data is stored by Apple.


Don't think the apple or any other app that charts your travels would be a legal way to prove you have been somewhere. If you were trying to 'trick' the authorities and you have made it clear that you would not, someone could take this device and log you on somewhere else. 

Reciepts for services or petrol would be the only way anyone would accept your path. You will have to refuel so you can use this. also if travelling to Ibiza you will have to take the ferry. Only way I can think off.

No complaints from me if you want to travel around europe as a tourist, I'm sure there must be a way of keeping it legal, and the return to the UK for MOT and stuff is doable if you time it right. Im not too sure if the channel tunnel still does the £10 midnight run for cars, but its the one I used when working in northern europe.

I wish you luck with your lifestyle choice, in fact in some ways i wish my life were simpler but its not, but i quite like it that way.


----------



## EX-1 (Jun 12, 2013)

*mrypg9,* I'm sorry, but I got told to moderate my language earlier and I think it's about time that some here got told to moderate their assumptions.

You are speaking across me as if I'm some sort of criminal, despite the fact I'm not. Despite the fact I'm entitled to European movement, despite the fact I have a genuine passport, despite the fact I will own a genuine vehicle, despite the fact I will have paid my insurance and taxes on it, despite the fact that I will be legally in Spain - 100% legal.

What exatly is the problem?

I would be a toursit, simple as that. And as a tourist I would abide fully regards the laws imposed on being a tourist. And do you for one moment think that coming to Spain means I'm going to want to park my van among a load of "sheep" bleeting their heads off and reporting the sighting of a van they have never seen before? I'm sorry but you really need to take a deep breath and listen to yourselves. If you posted such ridiculous comments on a motorhoming or fulltimers forum you'd be laughed under a table, and rightly so. My vehicle will be quite "sexy", not some clapped out van you seem to be expecting to park outside your house.

Is it just me or do you have this same attitude towards everyone that comes to Spain in a campervan? Like they're there to Sponge? Don't you understand that people who live in campers have costs related to their campers just like those that live in houses have costs realting to houses?

Coming to Spain as a tourist is not "sponging off the hard work of anyone".

I'm not paying road tax there because I paid it back in England instead. I'm not paying council tax on a house because I don't have a house. I'm not paying for health insurance because I want nothing out of it. I'm not paying for water because I have my own purifying system that cleans the water better than the state does, I'll do my top-ups at the sea! I'm not paying for electricity because I get it free using the solar panels that I paid for with my own money.

You are the typical public that cannot get it into their heads that not everyone wants to pay to have stuff done for them. I'm sorry but they don't, so you really need to get over it. Your experiences with the person you helped out have absolutely nothing to do with the lifestlye and everything to do with the sort of person he is.

You cannot throw everyone under the same label as him even if they had a clapped-out van. You could have some totally inconsiderate rich boy park his £40.000 motorhome right in front of your drive. He isn't going to be bothered about the consequences because he can afford to pay off the fine. On the other hand someone who is struggling to survive and who's only home is their van, is not going to do such a thing. They have no intention of drawing attention to themselves from do-gooders or nosey people twitching through their curtains.

You appear to have a very misguided view on the way things are.



*Larry,* first of all I have no intention of coming to your town, and even if I did, you would never know I was there. As for living on "donations", you need to remember that the reason they are donations is because I can live cheaply enough to give away my work and rely on donations. It is not charity. If I sell something it is business, if I give it away it is free. If I give it away but ask for donations it is still free because a donation is optional.

This is the part rat-racers cannot grasp. The only reason they need to work 9-5 is to pay for their lifestyle and to pay the bills. I'm not going that route, I am prepared to live so cheaply that I can afford to live on donations that are entirely optional. I am not a charity, I am not begging for money in any shape of form, nor am I getting anything from the state! I'm a highly talented dersigner, and if I choose to offer my work for free with the option of accepting a donation for my work, that is not a charity and I am not a beggar. My designs will be available 100% free with no obligation to donate anything, donating will be entirely optional and if I don't get enough to survive then I'm screwed. That's life, but at least I tried it, and unless I do I will never know.

Think clearly, please, dear forumites, because what you want to think is quite clearly a world away from reality. I find it offensive that I'm first being made to look like a criminal when I'm not one, and worse, that I'm now being made to look like a charity case.

Please moderate your assumptions, thanks!

Brocher, Barrie, I'll reply later.


----------



## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Oh, and before I forget, I really must ask mrypg9, are you wearing protection in that pool of yours? Reason I ask is that I read you were having water trouble with it and I wouldn't want you to go for a swim and turn green!

1). Yes, I enjoyed it, no I didn't go,green, thanks to advice from fellow posters it took five minutes to make the water crystal clear.

I realise you meant no harm by it, and I take no offence whatsoever. It's easy to swallow because although you like your lifestlye, your comment almost sounds as if you don't realise that others prefer a different lifestyle. 


2) yes, I know about people who follow your 'lifestyle'. Your lifestyle as you term it is similar to that of many other sheep who belong to your herd..


- You have a pool you need to maintain, I have the beaches of Ibiza and a clear blue ocean that looks after itself 
- You have electricity bills, I have my ultra-bright friend in the sky.
- You have council tax and rates for your own property, I don't

3) I am able to pay for my lifestyle with money earned by legitimate work, like the other happy sheep here in Spain.
You are freeloading, using infrastructure paid for by others.
Ibiza is one of the most commercialised parts of Spain. If that's your idea of 'alternative', you must be joking. It's Blackpool on heat. I used to spend summers on that island before it became spoilt and commercialised.
It's about making money out of spaced out clubbers now. Nothing remotely 'alternative' about Ibiza. That's a joke, thinking it's anything other. 



So anyway, like I said, as the residency route is not viable for me I will have to use the tourist route. [/QUOTE]

4). Enjoy your ninety days

You seem paranoiac about Apple and IPads....chill..Big Brother is most definitely not watching you.


----------



## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

EX-1 said:


> *mrypg9,* I'm sorry, but I got told to moderate my language earlier and I think it's about time that some here got told to moderate their assumptions.
> 
> You are speaking across me as if I'm some sort of criminal, despite the fact I'm not. Despite the fact I'm entitled to European movement, despite the fact I have a genuine passport, despite the fact I will own a genuine vehicle, despite the fact I will have paid my insurance and taxes on it, despite the fact that I will be legally in Spain - 100% legal.
> 
> ...




Your constant contradictions suggest to me that you havent thought anything thru and You "nearly" remind me the hippies back in the day except you dont have their principles or morals. I'm also thinking you're quite enjoying winding us up, cos I dont believe you're as naive and short sighted as you're making out  But hey, its amusing us too 

Jo xxx


----------



## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

EX-1 said:


> You're right, it would be entertaining, though not quite as entertaining as posting a few "_proof of concept to completion"_ pics from Spain when I get there
> Better still, I'll take an opportunity to flag down the Guardia myself and ask for a photo of me together with them, hows that?
> 
> For all I know, the Guardia and Spanish Police might be good as gold!
> Providing they don't piss me off, we'll get along fine


That is a very silly, immature comment and I do hope you will not behave in such a foolish way if you do have a run- in with the GC, for your sake. They have enough to put up with dealing with the antics of daft British tourists as it is.

I'm still chuckling at the very thought of Ibiza being 'alternative'. It's a great escape hole for young people many of whom work long hours in boring jobs back in the UK. One giant money machine, part of the system you despise.

What does your mum think of all this? Isn't she worried at the thought of you going off abroad with no visible means of support?


----------



## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

mrypg9 said:


> That is a very silly, immature comment and I do hope you will not behave in such a foolish way if you do have a run- in with the GC, for your sake. They have enough to put up with dealing with the antics of daft British tourists as it is.


I do hope he goes to Catalunya - the thought of him telling the Mossos d'Esquadra that as long as they don't piss him off everything will be fine!


----------



## brocher (Mar 21, 2011)

The more you wrote Ex1, the more I thought we had a chap a whole back sounding very like you.....guess what it is you! More than a year on and you still haven't found a way to buck the system despite all your brave talk about the police not p***ing you off, 

Talk is cheap, actions speak louder....and your lack of action says it all.


http://www.expatforum.com/expats/la-tasca/158586-unusual-service-required.html

http://www.expatforum.com/expats/br...azil/159943-tourist-vehicle-registration.html

Grow up and get a life. Work like the rest of us sheep and you won't have to bleat about how unfair everything is and how you can't afford to do the things you want.


----------



## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

I'm going to close this now, its passed its "sell by date" and boring

Jo xxx


----------

