# House Hunt - Best places to live and why



## VVChuck

My wife and I are coming to Mexico in late Sept thru early Oct (18 nites) to house hunt. We've looked via net in primarily 3 areas Quintana Roo (Tulum to Sisal), Baja (La Paz to Cabo) and the Mexican Riviera(Acapulco to Manzanillo). We getting overwhelmed and confused - we saw a lot of places that "look nice" but it always comes down to what would it be like to "live" there. So I'm wide open to your opinions!!! We want to be one of you - an expat enjoying life in Mexico!!! We're from a suburb of Cleveland and are tired of being cold!


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## makaloco

Hola Chuck, I grew up in Cuyahoga Falls, OH and currently live in La Paz. You'll find some info in an earlier thread here on the Expat Forum for Mexico:
http://www.expatforum.com/expats/me...ts-living-mexico/21274-la-paz-mexico-bcs.html
It's great that you'll be visiting your short list of potential destinations. Even better, since you're looking at coastal areas, is that you'll be here in tropical storm season when weather tends to be crappiest, though IMO nowhere near as crappy as in NE Ohio!! In La Paz, we get most of our tiny annual rainfall around that time, and it tends to get muggy. Most of the rest of the year, it's sunny, breezy, and dry. I think La Paz is a wonderful place to live. I've never been to the Yucatan and was near Manzanillo only once in the '70s. That seemed like a nice area, too. Please don't hesitate to PM me with any specific questions about La Paz.


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## VVChuck

How bad is the heat there? It's hot right now in Cleveland -how does La Paz compare? By the way my wife and I both love the mountain/sea views from La Paz. Do you live in town or the countryside?


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## makaloco

From Weather Underground for today: 
LAP: high 94, low 73
CLE: high 85, low 70
LAP: humidity high 67% low 36%, average 49%
CLE: humidity high 87%, low 55%, average 69%

With 20% lower humidity and a nice breeze, it doesn't "feel" the same here as it does there. I spent two weeks in Ohio in June and really felt the difference. Our sun is very strong and heats things up quickly, but the temp drops equally quickly in the evening. I've only slept with a fan on for the past 2-3 nights. My house is in town, but the weather is for the respective airports.

Again, it does get muggier here in late summer/early fall when the tropical storms come through and we get most of our tiny annual rainfall.


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## stanburn

I live full-time in Manzanillo without air conditioning. You can PM me with specific questions you may have, but the bottom line is that if you are looking for a place with a strong ex-pat community this will not be the place for you.

I am sure you will get lots of opinions on the "best" place to live and only you can answer that question for your situation.

I have been here 3 1/2 years and love it. Yes it is hot and muggy in the summer, but 130,000 locals can't be wrong, nor can the thousands of nationals that vacation here.


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## RVGRINGO

You may want to ask yourself where the vast majority of expats live, and why they live there. It has a great deal to do with climate, access to international airports and cities with the cultural events, products and services that they desire.
Much depends upon your tolerance for heat and humidity on the coast, cold winters without central heating in the higher elevations (7000' etc) or a temperate, more stable climate at about 5000' above sea level, yet within driving distance to the ocean beaches for a 'getaway'.
The coastal tourist destinations are generally more expensive.


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## Salto_jorge

Besides a vacation or two, have you spent much time in Mexico. Based on experience its not the same, in a short period of time you will visit/see the majority of the sites. After that you will have what nature, locals and your imagation can provide. You may want to spend a month or so in each of your planned destinations before making up your mind. I used to like the beach until I spent several weeks at Rocky Point and Manzanillo and the non stop  sand and humidity grew on me.

We choose GDL, since we can drive to beach (3.5 hrs) or to the Mountains or Lake Chapala in about 1.5 hrs or less. GDL is very diverse since its the second largest city in Mexico. We do not have central heat or air-conditioning. We purchased a portable air-conditioner a few weeks before the rainy season started plus we have electric heaters for when its colder then 60 degrees. You can find a modest place ( < 100K US) to live or spend millions of dollars everything is available.



No matter where you choose to stay, consider the proximity to the quality of services that you are used to and neighborhoods in the area and that you do not feel out of place.


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## TundraGreen

Some things to think about in addition to city: 

What the kind of neighborhood do you want to live in. Are you looking for an ex-pat community where there are many US/Canadians or not? You will learn Spanish faster if you stay away from other ex-pats but many like the company of other ex-pats.

Do you want to live in a modern gated community or in a traditional Mexican house or build your own or lots of other options. 

Near the ocean or inland (it sounds like you have already made that choice). 

Near a city center with lots of convenient services, or out in the country.


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## conklinwh

One thing about people that move to Mexico is that with few exceptions they really like where they live. 
Beach/central highlands is certainly a key decision. Although this site has a lot of people in the central highlands there are groups from the baja, Pacific coast, Progresso/Sisal as well as Mayan Riviera. This is a key decision that only you can make. If at all possible, I would suggest that you spend at least a month or so of summer at one or more beach areas and likewise a similar period in the winter at one or more cities in the central highland. There are certainly a lot of other decisions but this really needs be 1st.


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## ExpatPumpkin

I would move to your desired area and rent for a year. That way you'll figure out if that part of Mexico is really for you... 

And whatever you spend in rent will not be thrown away. You'll be much more likely to get a better deal on a house if you're shopping without a deadline or pressure, especially if the agents know it. Plus, you'll know which houses are the most negotiable by watching which ones "sit" on the market.

I honestly can't think of any value in flying in for a week and just buying a house. I'd slow down a bit. Good luck


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## TundraGreen

ExpatPumpkin said:


> I honestly can't think of any value in flying in for a week and just buying a house. I'd slow down a bit. Good luck


I would second that advice. Not everyone finds Mexico to be their cup of tea. I had one friend who sold everything and moved to Guanajuato for the rest of his life, only to discover that he didn't really like it. After a year, he moved back to the states and reconstructed a life there. So spending some time down here is probably a good idea before you buy a house and start to put down roots.

Will


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## kathryn

A few years ago, while on a sabbatical year, I spent 11 months travelling around and living in different places in order to get an idea where to spend my retirement. Of course, being from Toronto,I just KNEW that the coast was for me. I first went to Manzanillo for 2 months, then La Paz for 2 months. WOW!!!did I get beach, sand, humidity,heat, earthquakes out of my system. Then, upon advice from others, I went to Guanajuato, fell in love with the city and stayed for 4 months, then Tlaquepaque for 2 months, then San Miguel for 6 weeks. Now retired, I have rented a house in Tlaquepaque and in 2 weeks will drive there with my dog and cat to start ex-pat living. My advice to you is to spend some time, ( not 2 weeks,) in different places and climates before you make your decision. Good luck in finding your perfect place to retire.


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## kcowan

We have friends who moved from Vancouver to Mexico upon retirement in 1997. They moved to Ajijic, then after several years, they tried Manzanillo. Then Puerto Vallarta, and finally Mazatlan. After renting in Maz for three years, they bought their apartment.

We bought in old town PV after vacationing here for over 15 years. Since we retired, we rented in various locations before putting in an offer to purchase. We bought in 2007. We spend summers in Vancouver to avoid the tropical rainstorms and heat of PV between June and October.


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## RVGRINGO

Welcome, Kcowan. You have the perfect solution and many, who can afford to do so, follow that pattern.


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## abscissa

We bought bought a new beach house on the Yucatan 40 min. east of Progreso. We been wintering on the west coast (PV, Maz and Manz for 10 yrs but couldn't afford a house on the beach ... so we went to the east coast and loved it .. more like the real Mexico (less gringos) and very affordable (shocking price for beach front). The area is friendly .. no drug wars and Merida is close by with all the big box stores and cultural thing to do


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## Don P

Kathryn, could you say what you liked and didn't like most about SMA and Guanajuato and what your primary reasons caused you to pick Tlaquepaque? Did you spend any time in the Lake Chapala area?


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## TundraGreen

Don P said:


> Kathryn, could you say what you liked and didn't like most about SMA and Guanajuato and what your primary reasons caused you to pick Tlaquepaque? Did you spend any time in the Lake Chapala area?


You didn't ask me but I will tell you why I like Guadalajara Centro better than Lake Chapala. For background, I lived in Queretaro and Guadalajara for two years before deciding where to settle. I have visited Chapala/Ajijic three or four times. 

I like Guadalajara Centro because:
I can walk to several mercados
Mercado Abastos is a short bus ride
There are 4 or 5 panaderias within a 5 minute walk
There are 2 tlaperias within a 5 minute walk
The Teatro Diana is a 30 minute walk away, 15 minutes by bus, for opera in the fall
The Teatro Degallado is a 15 minute walk away for other cultural events
Cineforo of the Univ. de Guadalajara shows foreign films and is 10 minutes on foot
There are two Cinepolis complexes within walking distance
I have no idea how many bars and restaurants but it is lots within walking distance
Home Depot is one bus ride away.
(Costco and Walmart are a bus ride away, but I never shop at Walmart and rarely at Costco)
There are half dozen or more choices for language schools to work on my spanish
I could afford a delightful, huge old mexican style adobe house with three patios
My neighbors are all mexicanos
The plazas have free outdoor entertainment often
There are 20+ km of roads closed for recreation every Sunday

What Guadalajara Centro does not have is a scenic lake to stroll along every morning nor a huge community of English speakers.

You pick what is important to you.

My two cents and worth just what you paid for it.
Will


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## Don P

Thanks Will. I just looked at a video of Guadalajara Centro on YouTube and it is beautiful. Is air pollution much of an issue?

As somebody who doesn't speak any Spanish (yet), it's a little intimidating to think about living in a large city without much of an English speaking expat community but I definitely want to spend some time in Guadalaraja when I make a trip to Mexico.


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## RVGRINGO

Guadalajara is, indeed, a beautiful city with amazing cultural and historical attractions. The metropolitan area is comprised of well over six million inhabitants and includes several municipalities.
Pollution is worse in the winter, from December until the spring breezes, due to inversions. Some areas are worse than others. We live in Chapala, an hour south (half an hour beyond the airport) and are on the other side of a mountain range and also upwind; avoiding the city's pollution, yet it remains available to us by car or bus.


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## TundraGreen

Don P said:


> Thanks Will. I just looked at a video of Guadalajara Centro on YouTube and it is beautiful. Is air pollution much of an issue?
> 
> As somebody who doesn't speak any Spanish (yet), it's a little intimidating to think about living in a large city without much of an English speaking expat community but I definitely want to spend some time in Guadalaraja when I make a trip to Mexico.


In the summer, rainy, season, the air is quite clean. In the winter there is some pollution but it is not bad. I only notice it when I get a clear view of the hills around town and they look a little hazy. I guess it depends on your sensitivity to urban air.

There actually are at least two groups of ex-patriots here. They just don't overwhelm the experience like they seem to in communities with a high percentage. There is a group, called the American Society of Jalisco. They appear to be mostly retirees and have a club house where some people hang out and they have social events. Their web site is not maintained very well. There is another group of younger and more international people who get together once a month in a combination networking/social event. This group is mostly working people and is organized through an online community. (URLs by PM only.)

Incidentally my spanish is far from perfect and I can get by pretty well. If you are quick at languages, you will be speaking better than I do in a few months.


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## Don P

RVGringo, thanks for the comment and for hosting this website. The close proximity to Guadalajara is a big selling point for Lake Chapala to me. I have Crohn's disease and would need to find a regular gastroenterologist (preferably one that speaks at least some English) and access to a good hospital in the event of problems. It would also be great to have access to the sightseeing and cultural events of Guadalajara. I saw on a Chapala website that they had bus trips to Guadalajara for the symphony. The Philharmonic website had tickets at $90 to $170; am I correct in assuming that is pesos, i.e. about $15 for the best seats?


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## RVGRINGO

Sorry to hear of your battle with 'Sr. Crohn' and can only hope that you might find a less irritating diet in our part of Mexico, along with the lowered stress of an ideal climate.
For routine care, we do have good clinics and many private MDs right here at 'Lakeside', in Chapala and Ajijic. If you don't drive, you'll find bus stops everywhere, taxi stands at every town square and actual bus stations in most towns. All of those, here in Chapala, are within three blocks of my home, as are lakefront malecon, restaurants and parks, etc. So, it can be a good thing, especially if an 'urgency' occurs, to be close to your own facilities, or public ones. Yes, town squares have public facilities, as do government buildings, etc. Most MDs can, at least, read English and many are very capable verbally. Medical schools tend to be bilingual.
You are correct on your approximate fees for excellent cultural events at matinee performances. On the other hand, if you want to don your tuxedo and go to elegant restaurants, cocktails and the late night performances, delivered and retrieved by your private driver, there are certain events and/or performers which might cost you more like 1000 pesos. We can't go to those either! However, we'll go to a double wedding party later today and enjoy food, drink, music and more; all for a couple of hundred pesos in a nice card for the newlyweds; relatives of our maid. Those parties often last until 'sometime tomorrow', but we can't survive that much fun. Heck, they may not even cut the cake until midnight, long after the confetti egg fights between the new 'inlaws'. Probably just as much fun as the last 65 peso Jalisco Philharmonic concert we attended; just different. You see, prices for the concerts are going up!


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## TundraGreen

Don P said:


> RVGringo, thanks for the comment and for hosting this website. The close proximity to Guadalajara is a big selling point for Lake Chapala to me. I have Crohn's disease and would need to find a regular gastroenterologist (preferably one that speaks at least some English) and access to a good hospital in the event of problems. It would also be great to have access to the sightseeing and cultural events of Guadalajara. I saw on a Chapala website that they had bus trips to Guadalajara for the symphony. The Philharmonic website had tickets at $90 to $170; am I correct in assuming that is pesos, i.e. about $15 for the best seats?


If your interest in classical music extends to opera, be aware that they now do simulcasts of New York Metropolitan opera performances in Guadalajara. There are 11 this season. They simulcast them in the Teatro Diana. Seats are 80 pesos for the balcony which is fine since it is a huge screen and the camera in New York zooms in on the performers.

Will


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## Don P

Thanks for the comment Joel. I lived in Southern California (Newport Beach/Irvine) for a couple of years in the early 90's and loved the climate. I don't want to be in a border town like Tijuana and wasn't sure how far down the SoCal weather extended into Mexico. I'm planning to take a car from the U.S. into the central highlands of Mexico and will have to look into how to get to Ensenada from there and how much it will add to my trip. I'll be starting from and returning to the Atlanta, Georgia area so ending up in Baja California would make for an awfully long trip back. But I plan on spending at least 3 or 4 months on the trip so it might be something I can do.


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## tjfjrabm

take a look at the aguascalientes,aguascalientes mexico website. sort of an undiscovered jewel, one among many places, to consider. just a suggestion. begin to enjoy your new culture and lifestyle, wherever you choose. tom


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## Pancho

I agree with what several folks have said here about taking a bit of time before you make a big decision and that it really depends on what is important to you in terms of lifestyle. It is important think carefully about your priorities. 
We spent six months driving the Pacific coast of Mexico looking for a home in 1999. We investigated every bit of beach in search of the “perfect” spot to open a B&B. We had a wish list and had not found a place that satisfied it until we reached Huatulco Oaxaca. For us at that moment this was the perfect place. The two things that particularly impressed us were the great infrastructure and the incredible beaches. We decided not to include the gulf coast in our search at that time because of the risk of Hurricanes. Our reasoning was that you may be able to build for an earthquake but not a hurricane. The Pacific coast does get the occasional hurricane but not like the Caribbean. This year we have had an unusually amount of rain but as a rule the rainy season here is very pleasant, having only about 35 days with rain, most of which falls in the wee hours of the night. Except for the month of May, when the humidity is rising before the rain begins, we rarely use the AC. 
Ten years later we still love Huatulco. It has a small town feel and is a very safe place to live. It does not have a lot of the services or the cultural events that you would find in a city; neither does it have the traffic. For quiet beauty and nature you could not find a better place.


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## ruminator

*where to live*

my wife and I in April, 2010, closed on a beautiful home in Cabo San Lucas. We traveled there many times before buying and also to the Cancun-Playa del Carmen area. Our neighborhood is gated, new, finished like a resort and we have within a few minutes of us, Costco, Home Depot, Wal Mart and Sam's Club. Many Americans and Canadians call this their home. The living is easy and you get to decide if you want to live like Jennifer Anniston or live cheaply (beers lately have been 10 pesos, etc.).
Email me if you want to discuss more. Also, my property taxes where I live now are $21,000 per year. My home in Cabo, which is about 3500 sq. ft is $300 per year. When I was told what my property taxes were in Mexico, I started laughing and my real estate broker asked why. When I told her what I pay in the states, she simply stated "why would you pay that". Great question!


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## gbrooks8888

*House Hunting La Paz*



VVChuck said:


> My wife and I are coming to Mexico in late Sept thru early Oct (18 nites) to house hunt. We've looked via net in primarily 3 areas Quintana Roo (Tulum to Sisal), Baja (La Paz to Cabo) and the Mexican Riviera(Acapulco to Manzanillo). We getting overwhelmed and confused - we saw a lot of places that "look nice" but it always comes down to what would it be like to "live" there. So I'm wide open to your opinions!!! We want to be one of you - an expat enjoying life in Mexico!!! We're from a suburb of Cleveland and are tired of being cold!


Google up Hacienda Del Sol,should come up in Lapaz, marvelous web site about La Paz plus not expensive to stay, the site spins off to all you ever wanted to know about Mexico, and the Lapaz area, good luck with your search-Greg


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## bigmutt

*How important is the climate, to you???*



RVGRINGO said:


> Much depends upon your tolerance for heat and humidity on the coast, cold winters without central heating in the higher elevations (7000' etc) or a temperate, more stable climate at about 5000' above sea level, yet within driving distance to the ocean beaches for a 'getaway'.


I was already living in a great climate (San Diego, CA) but also had grown up in Ontario, Canada, where it's muggy (and sometimes quite hot) all summer long.

Weather was one of the top considerations for me, so I chose to stay away from the coastal areas: way too humid !!! I didn't want to spend $$$ for heating OR airconditioning, so I chose a temperate area. Would you believe the climate here is even nicer than San Diego?? Never need A/C, never need heating. Guadalajara is okay for parts of the year (we visit there quite often) but too hot in summer, and as you know, it's Mexico's 2nd-largest city (with all that THAT brings with it.) 
And my personal suggestion? find a place that has Costco (or even Sam's Club & WalMart) within reasonable driving distance; also international airport within reasonable distance, because you WILL be taking trips "back home", if only to find a decent pizza.


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## travelpro747

*My 2 Cents Worth*



VVChuck said:


> My wife and I are coming to Mexico in late Sept thru early Oct (18 nites) to house hunt. We've looked via net in primarily 3 areas Quintana Roo (Tulum to Sisal), Baja (La Paz to Cabo) and the Mexican Riviera(Acapulco to Manzanillo). We getting overwhelmed and confused - we saw a lot of places that "look nice" but it always comes down to what would it be like to "live" there. So I'm wide open to your opinions!!! We want to be one of you - an expat enjoying life in Mexico!!! We're from a suburb of Cleveland and are tired of being cold!


I will be moving to Baja later this year for retirement. I grew up in San Diego County and have been going there since 1955. I have chosen the Rosarito Beach area (just south) for some simple reasons. 

1. There is no better weather period. Not just in Mexico, but just about anywhere in the world, and I have traveled extensively.

2. Proximity to US and family. This is more personal for me as I have family close by, but being close to the US has many other positive aspects as well.

3. Great food and great beaches. No exclusive here, but no humidity and it's never cold and never HOT. I lived in Boston and Greenwich, CT. NO THANKS. 

4. This really should be number one on the list, and most current expats will agree....the best reason to live anywhere in Mexico is the Mexicans. They are simply the nicest, most friendly, helpful people you will ever meet. Anyone who has spent much time in Mexico has at least one great story to tell in this regard. Many of us are fortunate enough to have dozens of them.

The advice to rent is the best advice anyone can give you. Mexico is wonderful, but it is not the USA and if you have not spent a LOT of time here, don't commit yourself to a purchase until you have at least a year under your belt. One thing Mexico does have in common with the US right now is a lousy real estate market so if you buy and find you made a mistake, you might live with that mistake for a very long time. 

Best of luck in finding your own special spot.


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## travelpro747

Don P said:


> RVGringo, thanks for the comment and for hosting this website. The close proximity to Guadalajara is a big selling point for Lake Chapala to me. I have Crohn's disease and would need to find a regular gastroenterologist (preferably one that speaks at least some English) and access to a good hospital in the event of problems. It would also be great to have access to the sightseeing and cultural events of Guadalajara. I saw on a Chapala website that they had bus trips to Guadalajara for the symphony. The Philharmonic website had tickets at $90 to $170; am I correct in assuming that is pesos, i.e. about $15 for the best seats?


Hi Don,

My ex is from Mexico City and had a terrible time with Crohn's until a Dr. in Mexico (after dozens of trips to Houston and Dallas to visit the "experts") told her to take a simple drug called Triptanol. For years it was available over the counter in Mexico but a few years ago that changed and it now takes a prescription. It costs about $6 for 20 pills and she has taken 1 a day for over 45 years. Her last scans with a Dr. here in Washington had the Dr. in shock. She had my wife's x-rays from 20 years ago and could find no trace of leftover damage or hardly any sign that she had ever had the disease. She still watches her diet closely and takes 1 pill a day, but has not had a problem in many years. 

I would certainly ask about it when you find your specialist here. Who knows!


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## Ninadomino

*Just thought I'd toss a question in here*

Hey, I just thought I'd throw a question into the mix. I've been living in Guadalajara for a few years even though I'm still not a resident. I'm familiar with the surrounding mountain towns like Lake Chapala, Tonala, Tapalpa, and others. 

I'm somewhat of a young expat woman, 27, and am looking for a permanent place to situate myself, and also where to find a community of expats to talk to my age in Guadalajara. I'd like to live in a quiet mountain town close enough to the city to be able to travel there somewhat often to be social, and then go hide back in my little quiet place. But, I don't want to live in any bad or dangerous areas, nor ones with too much garbage and pollution or smell, (like close to the sewage). I went to the Barranca today, and was surprised about how beautiful some parts of it are, but it is right on the edge of the city and might be too nasty and dangerous, but I'd prefer to be as close to the city as possible but also near some forest so that I can have a little farm and learn to hunt and forage. I also don't have a car or much money right now so can't do too much traveling, or going out.

Anyone familiar with these areas have suggestions for me? Thanks.


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## TundraGreen

Ninadomino said:


> Anyone familiar with these areas have suggestions for me? Thanks.


Your request confused me a little. It is not clear whether you are really looking for something on the outskirts of Guadalajara, for example on the edge of Bosque La Primavera where there are subdivisions very close to the forest. Or something in a small town within a hour or a few of Guadalajara, like Talpa or Amititan or Tequila or Chapala or any one of many others. As you probably know, since you indicate you have been here for awhile, the bus service, both local and intercity, is quite good. So the lack of a car would not be a handicap as long as you are willing to tolerate the added time that bus travel requires. It does dictate that access to bus service should be a primary factor in where you choose to live. Finally, I have no idea what you mean by "hunt and forage". 

Will


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## RVGRINGO

"Hunt and forage" is out of the question and leads me to suspect the poster's ability to remain in Mexico; perhaps without work and maybe without a visa.
Care to give us more information, Ninadomino? We welcome you to the forum, but you do have us puzzled.


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## Ninadomino

TundraGreen said:


> Your request confused me a little. It is not clear whether you are really looking for something on the outskirts of Guadalajara, for example on the edge of Bosque La Primavera where there are subdivisions very close to the forest. Or something in a small town within a hour or a few of Guadalajara, like Talpa or Amititan or Tequila or Chapala or any one of many others. As you probably know, since you indicate you have been here for awhile, the bus service, both local and intercity, is quite good. So the lack of a car would not be a handicap as long as you are willing to tolerate the added time that bus travel requires. It does dictate that access to bus service should be a primary factor in where you choose to live. Finally, I have no idea what you mean by "hunt and forage".
> 
> Will




Hello, and sorry for the confusion. Well, I'm debating between those two, either on the outskirts of the city, or close to a small town near the city. I'd like to live in the country close to a small town, or close to Guadalajara near some forest. I like the area near the barranca, seems nice, but I notice it is close to a sewage treatment plant and the slums. If there's a section of that with land for sale away from the sewage and slums for a good price, it would be perfect.

When I say hunt and forage, I mean like search for wild edibles like fruit trees, and berries, verdolagas, mint, mushrooms, etc, and learn to hunt small game like rabbits and ducks or other birds. Perhaps fish in rivers if they aren't so polluted.





RVGRINGO said:


> "Hunt and forage" is out of the question and leads me to suspect the poster's ability to remain in Mexico; perhaps without work and maybe without a visa.
> Care to give us more information, Ninadomino? We welcome you to the forum, but you do have us puzzled.




Sorry about the puzzlement, RV and thanks for welcoming me here. 

May I ask why hunting and foraging is out of the question? Even inside the city, I'm all the time 'foraging' from guayaba trees, mango trees, finding verdolagas growing through the cracks of the sidewalk, as well as wild mint all over the place. And what's wrong with hunting in the forest? Is it illegal? And, just so you know, I've been living in Guadalajara for nearly 4 years, now. I believe I could 'remain' in Mexico if I could find a place of my own.

No, I never got a visa, didn't know I needed one, and no I dont work yet, just do little jobs on the side and help work on web pages for the friend I'm living with who is a Mexican. 

I'm not really able to do very much right now in the way of searching for a place for myself, since I need to become a resident first before I can get a decent job and start saving up money. I just thought I'd post here and ask about where are the best places to buy a property that's near forest for the best price either on the outskirts of Guadalajara, or around the small towns near it?


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## RVGRINGO

Having a firearm is the problem. Foraging on public land may be OK, but otherwise difficult.
As for your status in Mexico, it appears that you are an illegal alien, working without INM permission and subject to deportation; not a good way to live.
May I suggest that you exit Mexico, by land, and return with a proper passport and enter with an FMM 180 day permit, then apply for a 'no inmigrado' visa within 30 days, if you qualify. If not, you will have to exit again, every 180 days.
Sorry, but the "I never got a visa, didn't know I needed one...." just doesn't fly. As everywhere, ignorance of the law is no excuse.


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## Rodeomen

*Best Places to Live*



VVChuck said:


> My wife and I are coming to Mexico in late Sept thru early Oct (18 nites) to house hunt. We've looked via net in primarily 3 areas Quintana Roo (Tulum to Sisal), Baja (La Paz to Cabo) and the Mexican Riviera(Acapulco to Manzanillo). We getting overwhelmed and confused - we saw a lot of places that "look nice" but it always comes down to what would it be like to "live" there. So I'm wide open to your opinions!!! We want to be one of you - an expat enjoying life in Mexico!!! We're from a suburb of Cleveland and are tired of being cold!


I'm familiar with Todo Santos north of Cabo and it is a wonderful place, lots of ex-pats, easy to communicate. Weather is wonderful in our winter but summer time is HOT HOT HOT. We also have a place in Puerto Vallarta and absolutely love being there. There are lots of options as for housing. Again, the summers in PV are horrible - unless you really like sweltering hot weather with high humidity. Gringos need AC in summer for sure. Barra de Navidad south of PV is a really nice, quieter place and beaches are great, prices not too bad. Hot in summer. Why not check out Lake Chapala and Ajijic just south of Guadalajara? No ocean, but more temperate year round temps.


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## Don P

While the internet is a great resource for looking into Mexico, you might want to check out one of the Mexico travel guide books. I got the Frommer's Mexico 2010 a couple of days ago and really like it. It has a pullout map and the book divides Mexico into 15 different destination areas, covering the cities and towns in each with things to see, places to stay and eat, etc. I am finding it very useful. You can pick out the places that sound like what you're looking for and map out a trip.


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## Blue Eagle

VVChuck said:


> My wife and I are coming to Mexico in late Sept thru early Oct (18 nites) to house hunt. We've looked via net in primarily 3 areas Quintana Roo (Tulum to Sisal), Baja (La Paz to Cabo) and the Mexican Riviera(Acapulco to Manzanillo). We getting overwhelmed and confused - we saw a lot of places that "look nice" but it always comes down to what would it be like to "live" there. So I'm wide open to your opinions!!! We want to be one of you - an expat enjoying life in Mexico!!! We're from a suburb of Cleveland and are tired of being cold!


best bet is some quiet town on the Mexican Riviera, cleanest ocean waters, most authentic mexican lifestyle and open mindedness. Having lived and travelled mexico for 2 decades, driven it as well, it is important to know as much of the language as possible. If you want something authentic, a real experience don't go wherever the guidebooks say, you'll only find others like yourself. Go where the Mexicans go, become one with the culture, create relationships, trust and friendships, they are gold in mexico. Also a must, learn the basics of the language or you'll be lost. Make sure you always have your own medical kit and medical supplies with you, ability to drink clean water, ability to make clean water and kill parasites. Learn all that you can about living in a third world country because you can become ill if you are not careful. Shop and cook at home most times.


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## Pancho

We live in Huatulco all year round and the worst months is actually May, before the rains begin. You will need AC then but we seldom use it in August. After the first year you become accostomed to the climate and on rare occasions that we retunr to Canada, eveni n August it feels kind of chilly!


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## BajaGringo

The Baja peninsula is long and includes two states and a myriad of topography, landscape, culture and climates. You will find pine tree forests at over 6000' elevation and Cancun like blue water lagoons along the Sea of Cortez. 

We chose the northern Baja Pacific coastline area outside San Quintin, about a four and a half to five hour drive south of the border from San Diego. Nice summers and mild winters with great fishing make this an ideal spot for us. Not all of Baja shares the hot Cabo / La Paz weather...


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## ptrichmondmike

*Love this thread!*

Thanks to all for this wide-ranging discussion of all the "best" places to live in Mexico.

The special thing about Mexico is that there are SO MANY wonderful choices -- an incredibly varied, beautiful country. And as someone here commented, inhabited by such lovely, gracious people.

I still haven't settled on a retirement location. As a climate wuss, it's got to be in the highlands, with relatively cool weather. (Although I did live in San Diego for ten years and know how perfect the weather is in Ensenada and along that coast.) It's got to be a city, but not too big. It can't be californicated or otherwise overgringofied. That rules out some of the more popular destinations, obviously. Which is why I'm strongly leaning to the Patzcuaro region, and also would like to learn more about Uruapan and, on the extreme side of big, Morelia. But I'm also open to looking at places farther north such as Zacatecas and Aguascalientes.

I have a close friend who has been talking mutual retirement for decades -- but he wants to move to Alamos. I noticed over the past six weeks that Alamos has been gripped in what appears to me to be a prolonged heat wave -- 95 to 110 degrees day after day, mid-80s at night. No thanks.

Another great thing: even if you choose to live in the highlands (or vice versa), you can always rent a cheap house, say, in a non-touristy beach community for a couple of weeks or a month during the less humid season -- palapas, margaritas and yummy Mexican chow. Pure heaven!

Three more years. I can't wait.


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## TundraGreen

ptrichmondmike said:


> It can't be californicated or otherwise overgringofied.


Your choice, or creation, of words is great!

Some people like areas with lots of gringos and some people like to stay away from them. I suspect nobody likes californication (and I used to live in California).


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## lasmsp2mx

Kathryn, I am in the process of exploring options on where to live in Mexico. I have friends who are moving to Merida and want me to join them. However, I am originally from Las Vegas, NV and now live in Minneapolis. I hate the heat, in LV and the cold in MN. so I don't want to live in Merida. I have visited Guadalajara twice and loved it. Also I have been to Oaxaca and like that also. I think renting is the best idea. Did you have trouble finding a place in Tlaquepaque? Where did you stay while looking for a place to rent? I have been thinking about Lake Chapala or Aijijic just to get comfortable in Mexico. I am a retired single woman with a dog who will be going with me. Any little tidbits you can give me would be greatly appreciated.










kathryn said:


> A few years ago, while on a sabbatical year, I spent 11 months travelling around and living in different places in order to get an idea where to spend my retirement. Of course, being from Toronto,I just KNEW that the coast was for me. I first went to Manzanillo for 2 months, then La Paz for 2 months. WOW!!!did I get beach, sand, humidity,heat, earthquakes out of my system. Then, upon advice from others, I went to Guanajuato, fell in love with the city and stayed for 4 months, then Tlaquepaque for 2 months, then San Miguel for 6 weeks. Now retired, I have rented a house in Tlaquepaque and in 2 weeks will drive there with my dog and cat to start ex-pat living. My advice to you is to spend some time, ( not 2 weeks,) in different places and climates before you make your decision. Good luck in finding your perfect place to retire.


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## RVGRINGO

Welcome to the forum and, potentially, to Jalisco; either in Guadalajara or on the north shore of Lake Chapala in either Ajijic, Chapala or Jocotopec.


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## lasmsp2mx

Thank you RVGRINGO. This thread is so helpful, I am so glad I found it. I know I will be posting many times before I get to Mexico.


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## kathryn

Know what you mean about too much heat and/or too much cold. Have been here in Tlaquepaque for a month now and realize I've made a good move. One reason I chose this place is if I need a "hit of home", I am close to several ex-pat communities (guad/chapala/s.m.allende). Another reason is there are different weather seasons. Yes, you are wise to consider renting, and a good site that I have used is VRBO, good for short and/or extended rental.


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## lasmsp2mx

Thank you Kathryn, I thought for a long while I would love to retire in San Miguel even though I have never been there. I now know it would be way out of my price range. But would love to visit. Actually, I would love to explore all of Mexico. Except around the boarders right now.


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## Dmexx

You mention weather as important. Do you plan to become a year-round resident in Mexico? You have chosen costal communities to visit when the weather is pleasant. Summers generally are unpleasant in coastal cities, altho maybe not be much different from Cleveland, as the respondent in La Paz points out.

You will escape the cold, but not the heat. That is why many gringos head north (we found they had almost deserted Manzanillo to avoid the swelter when we arrived in June) or live at higher elevations in cities like San Miguel, Chapala or Cuernavaca. You need to be at 5,000 ft to 7,000 ft to have pleasant year-round weather.

What is the depth of your Mexican experience? If you don’t have much, you may find it best to locate in a ****** Village as a start. The places you mention tend to have them, but check carefully. Many newcomers need the support of fellow expats that speak their language and can give local advice. 

Best, as others have advised, not to buy anything for the first year to confirm you are in the right locale.


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## lasmsp2mx

Dmexx said:


> You mention weather as important. Do you plan to become a year-round resident in Mexico? You have chosen costal communities to visit when the weather is pleasant. Summers generally are unpleasant in coastal cities, altho maybe not be much different from Cleveland, as the respondent in La Paz points out.
> 
> You will escape the cold, but not the heat. That is why many gringos head north (we found they had almost deserted Manzanillo to avoid the swelter when we arrived in June) or live at higher elevations in cities like San Miguel, Chapala or Cuernavaca. You need to be at 5,000 ft to 7,000 ft to have pleasant year-round weather.
> 
> What is the depth of your Mexican experience? If you don’t have much, you may find it best to locate in a ****** Village as a start. The places you mention tend to have them, but check carefully. Many newcomers need the support of fellow expats that speak their language and can give local advice.
> 
> Best, as others have advised, not to buy anything for the first year to confirm you are in the right locale.


I am on board with you. I thought about renting in Chapala/Ajijic to start out with. I will be on my own + dog. And weather is important. I hate heat and humidity. I have never been to any of the beach resorts in Mexico. I don't like real touristy places, I don't think that is the real Mexico. I don't speak Spanish I am ashamed to say because I have tried. I have a very hard head for languages. I think when I have to I will catch on. I went to boarding school with all girls mostly from Mexico and South America all they did was speak Spanish and I still didn't catch on. I think when I have to I will.


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## kcowan

lasmsp2mx said:


> I am on board with you. I thought about renting in Chapala/Ajijic to start out with. I will be on my own + dog. And weather is important. I hate heat and humidity. I have never been to any of the beach resorts in Mexico. I don't like real touristy places, I don't think that is the real Mexico. I don't speak Spanish I am ashamed to say because I have tried. I have a very hard head for languages. I think when I have to I will catch on. I went to boarding school with all girls mostly from Mexico and South America all they did was speak Spanish and I still didn't catch on. I think when I have to I will.


If you choose Ajijic, you will not have to speak Spanish. It is dry and hot, like the Okanagan in BC. OTOH it is boring. All the restaurants are closed by 10pm.

If you choose PV, it is exciting. But the summers are very humid and wet! June to October.


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## lasmsp2mx

kcowan said:


> If you choose Ajijic, you will not have to speak Spanish. It is dry and hot, like the Okanagan in BC. OTOH it is boring. All the restaurants are closed by 10pm.
> 
> If you choose PV, it is exciting. But the summers are very humid and wet! June to October.


Thank you for your advise. I didn't think Chapala/Ajijic was hot. It is good it isn't humid. My home town is hot and dry in Las Vegas, NV. so anything under 120 will be okay. I am afraid my days of wanting excitement are behind me, I will be 65yrs in Dec. So, boring is okay. I would like to try Chapala/Ajijic out and see if I like it.


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## sparks

kcowan said:


> If you choose Ajijic, you will not have to speak Spanish. It is dry and hot, like the Okanagan in BC. OTOH it is boring. All the restaurants are closed by 10pm.
> 
> If you choose PV, it is exciting. But the summers are very humid and wet! June to October.


There has been as much rain this year here in the Chapala area as down on the coast. It does average about 15 degrees cooler than the coast and less humid. I have not experienced a hot day in the year I've lived here but the locals do complain now and then. I bought my first heater here last winter.


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## conklinwh

I'm sure that the Lake Chapala area is great but I wouldn't necessarily write-off San Miguel as unaffordable. As I've said in earlier posts, we have a number of artist friends there that live very well in San Miguel for very little and there is almost always some free event from concert to parade to gallery opening. For example, my wife just took some encaustic painting lessons from an artist that has a one year lease on a great apartment in a good area for 2500p/month(that isn't a typo). It has a living/dining/kitchen great room, a balcony where she grows vegetables & herbs, 3 BR's(in her case 1BR, 1 studio, and 1 art storage) and a walk up roof top terrace with a palapa and wonderful views.
I think that in most cases living costs in Mexico are really one of personal choices versus location and I wouldn't write off any place you feel comfortable in till you have spent enough time there to truly understand the options.


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## lasmsp2mx

conklinwh said:


> I'm sure that the Lake Chapala area is great but I wouldn't necessarily write-off San Miguel as unaffordable. As I've said in earlier posts, we have a number of artist friends there that live very well in San Miguel for very little and there is almost always some free event from concert to parade to gallery opening. For example, my wife just took some encaustic painting lessons from an artist that has a one year lease on a great apartment in a good area for 2500p/month(that isn't a typo). It has a living/dining/kitchen great room, a balcony where she grows vegetables & herbs, 3 BR's(in her case 1BR, 1 studio, and 1 art storage) and a walk up roof top terrace with a palapa and wonderful views.
> I think that in most cases living costs in Mexico are really one of personal choices versus location and I wouldn't write off any place you feel comfortable in till you have spent enough time there to truly understand the options.


Thank you. I need to come down there and look around to see where I want to stay forever. I wonder if another single older woman would be willing to rent out a room. I will not know anyone down there. I would like to travel around and see which place touches my soul. Mexico touches my soul but I wouldn't want to live in Juaraz or any border town.


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## elchante

LASMFP: i am sending you a PM about a woman who is looking for a roommate for a house on lake chapala (ajijic, i believe). it includes her e-mail address.


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## conklinwh

I'm sure that the answer is yes about renting rooms. We've been out of San Miguel for 4 years but had single woman contacts that rented rooms. A good place to start might be the online version of the Atencion the weekly dual language newspaper that has rental section by owner.
If you have specifics as to when & how long. I could ask a few friends.


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## Bellbrigden

After spending 20 years escaping the harsh Canadian winters I finally bought a condo in Manzanillo. I wintered in many countries around the world, always returning every couple of years to Mexico. I enjoy the people, the country and the culture. In a couple of weeks I will be driving down to enjoy a sunny winter.


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## RVGRINGO

Welcome to the forum, Bellbrigden. We also enjoy Manzanillo every once in a while, usually for a week in the winter. We often stay at La Posada in Las Brisas.
I hope you enjoy the forum and will post your travel experiences, as well as tales of your time in Manzanillo.


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## tepetapan

Checking out a site that will give you average daily temps, lows and highs, could help in making a decision. _Weatherbase is one that has a number cities in Mexico listed._


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## lasmsp2mx

Thank you. Weatherbase is a great site.


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## NORM123

I'm used to the heat, spent almost all my life in L.A. But I live in Puerto Vallarta since April, and when my lease is up moving to Baja. The humity during the summer is horrible, when you walk out the door it feels like you were hit with a wet facecloth! I can't believe EVERYONE hasn't told you to rent before you buy


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## Lindarose

*I'm originally from Cleveland*

I've lived in MX for 18 yrs., first RVing and staying in QR, namely Paamul, 5 mi,. so. of Playa del Carmen; I lived in Fla. for many years, Cleveland for 21 and QR is just too hot and I'm not the beach bunny I used to be. Same response to the other places you mention. Acapulco isn't the safest place now and you have to consider hurricanes when you're in these areas. That's why we did a climate search before we moved here (Lake Chapala) from Tallahassee, FL. It seemed the Colonial Cities had an altitude of more than 4000 ft and less than 7000. We lived in Oaxaca, which is very similar to Lake chapala, but w/o the lake; stayed in Patzcuaro for 6 wks where it gets quite cool; San Miguel is also very nice & very pricey, I've not been to Baja but do know folks that live there & it does get unbearably hot. If you're willing to live in air conditioning (after having lived in Fla. for 20 yrs I was NOT!) you'll be able to survive but probably w/limited activities. You don't mention if you have hobbies but I assume you're divers (?), that would be a good reason to live in the areas you mention. But for me, I prefer the more stable climates. I assume you've gone to realtors in these areas? That's one way to be sure of what you're renting. If you spoke Spanish you could talk to the locals and get much better deals. Hope I've helped you some, but maybe I'm too late & you're already gone? My sister from Medina is visiting here on Oct. 20-28.





VVChuck said:


> My wife and I are coming to Mexico in late Sept thru early Oct (18 nites) to house hunt. We've looked via net in primarily 3 areas Quintana Roo (Tulum to Sisal), Baja (La Paz to Cabo) and the Mexican Riviera(Acapulco to Manzanillo). We getting overwhelmed and confused - we saw a lot of places that "look nice" but it always comes down to what would it be like to "live" there. So I'm wide open to your opinions!!! We want to be one of you - an expat enjoying life in Mexico!!! We're from a suburb of Cleveland and are tired of being cold!


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## RVGRINGO

Welcome to the forum, Linda.


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## Lindarose

*forum*

Thanks, this is the first time in a long time I've been online becuz I could never get the password right! 




RVGRINGO said:


> Welcome to the forum, Linda.


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## safogel

*La Paz or the rest of the coastal towns in Mexico for retirment?*

Chuck,
I just ansewered a similar query on another board.
I will paste it in here.
But I want to give you an image of life most of the year in the areas of coastal Mexico other than La Paz :
Think Saran wrap: think about wrapping yourself in it, and then walking around the Riviera Maya, Vallarta, Acapulco and Manzanillo in their high humidity and hot sun. Really that is what most of the year is like in those areas.
Oh and then their are the big storms and hurricanes. Those areas are lush, and have beautiful beaches, but the humidity, heat and mosquitoes will drive you mad.

Here is what I wrote to the other person:
Felicidades on making the choice to move to Baja California Sur.
From 1989 to 1999 we travelled all over coastal Mexico to locate a perfect retirement city.
We chose La Paz and have been living here for 10 years.We both work, and I have done everything from writing for the papers, selling real estate, and doing mortgages.When we arrived fresh from Silicon Valley in the summer of 2000 we went from the center of the electronic universe to having NO PHONES and NO INTERNET.

Now we have high-speed internet and unlimited long distance calling in Mexico and to the US for a very small monthly fee.We have DishTv and will soon have US networks in real time. No more two year old programs.

As the former closing director of a cross-border mortgage company, I have travelled to most of the resorts of Mexico and closed transactions in all of the major markets.

I highly reccommend La Paz.
I know everyone dreams of dropping out and living on the beach eating fresh fish they caught themselves, and never wearing too many clothes. I dreamt of that life as well.

The reality is, you need goods and services. You need good medical care. It is nice to go to a modern, clean and comfortable theater and see the latest movies. And it is essential for me to get a good cup of coffee.You need ink and paper for your printer, a veteirnarian, dentist, massage therapist and you don't want to have to drive an hour or more on bumpy dirt roads to get what you need.

We have excellent restaurants and an emerging Zona Gastronimica, (a restaurant district). Don't like the menu at this restaurant? Walk a few doors down and find another.AND YOU WILL NOT DIE WHEN YOU GET THE BILL.
And La Paz is a great walking city. Visit the Malecon on a Sunday night and mingle with the locals out to see and be seen. The pace is slower here.

La Paz has beautiful public beaches. It is the seat of government for Baja California Sur, so this is where you have to come to renew your immigration documents, register your car and really find everything you need for a comfortable life.

Why we chose La Paz:
1. Property prices were and still are reasonable
2. English speaking well-trained medical practitioners
3. Nearby International airport
4. Accessibilty to the US by car
5. Shopping:
a. groceries
b. electronics
c. pharmacies
Many small specialty shops to fill most every need.

6. Climate:

La Paz is warmer than Todos Santos, but La Paz suffers less when big storms and hurricanes hit.
And we have our utilities restored faster.
We have had hurricanes here, but they do not cause the kind of damge as in the other areas.
7. Real Estate:
Bargains? Many buyers are coming down thinking that they can steal properties because that is going on in depressed areas like Florida.
Money talks everywhere and if you make a good offer on a house, the seller will negotiate.

Todos Santos has its appeal, but you are truly cut off, and must drive to La Paz or Cabo San Lucas for everything. And if you have a medical emergency, you need to get to either of those cities in a hurry...and you cannot depend on an ambulance. And in the summer the stores and many restaurants roll in the sidewalk until mid-October, isolating you even further.
The new road between La Paz and Todos Santos makes it a pleasant drive for a day trip.

Los Cabos ( San Jose and San Lucas) are expensive, crowded, and getting more crowded.Traffic is horrendous. Yes they have COSTCO but La Paz is getting a Mega, has City Club, other grocery stores and unfortunately a Wal-Mart. Los Cabos are definitley car towns and the prices in restaurants are big city prices.

Los Barriles is hot, hotter than the other cities in summer. Out in the middle of nowhere with very few goods and services. And again for anything, you need to make the long drive to La Paz or Los Cabos. I mean just how much wind surfihg can you do? The beaches are gorgeous.

There is an array of property on the market some cookie cutter, and others one of a kind properties in all areas. You can find more variety in La Paz and Los Barriles. Los Cabos properties tend to be in developments and condos. And they are expensive. And for someone that has reviewed a lot of appraisals from that area, not particularly interesting. Those properties not priced in the stratosphere are across the freeway ( from the water) on a hill behind Home Depot or COSTCO.

Almost everything is on the market in Los Barriles. No wonder, these Gringos broke the bank to build McMansions, and now they have to maintain them, and again drive over an hour to get anything they need.
San Jose is a lovely city and very nice for pedestrians once you find a place to park. It, like it's sister San Lucas is expensive.

It was La Paz that was voted the best place to retire outside the US by Money Magazine.
I have written some articles for International Living about La Paz I can send you. I have also written an e-book.


Saludos,
Susan Fogel


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## kcowan

safogel said:


> Chuck,
> ...Think Saran wrap: think about wrapping yourself in it, and then walking around the Riviera Maya, Vallarta, Acapulco and Manzanillo in their high humidity and hot sun. Really that is what most of the year is like in those areas.
> 
> Oh and then their are the big storms and hurricanes. Those areas are lush, and have beautiful beaches, but the humidity, heat and mosquitoes will drive you mad.
> ...


We live in PV and enjoy the following:
We have high-speed internet (3 choices) and unlimited long distance calling in Mexico and to the US for a very small monthly fee. We also use magicJack to call NOTB. We have StarChoice satellite and have five US networks and five Canadian networks in real time. Plus all the specialty channels (HBO, ESPN, comedy, etc.)

We have good medical care - several choices. It is nice to go to a modern, clean and comfortable theater and see the latest movies. And it is essential for me to get a good cup of coffee. You need ink and paper for your printer, a veterinarian, dentist, massage therapist and you don't want to have to drive an hour or more on bumpy dirt roads to get what you need. they are all here and you get to choose from the high priced ****** areas or walk a few blocks and get Mexican prices.

We have excellent local restaurants and an established restaurant district that caters to tourists. Don't like the menu at this restaurant? Walk a few doors down and find another. Find one with painted wooden tables and chairs or even molded plastic chairs and tables to get the real deals. Buy a taco where they cover the plastic plate with a plastic bag so the plate can be reused! The price will be affordable to the Mexican worker!

And PV is a great walking city. Visit the Malecon on a Sunday night and mingle with the locals out to see and be seen. The pace is slower here.

PV has beautiful public beaches. It is the destination for seashore vacations for Mexicans from Guadalajara, DF and gringos. You can renew your immigration documents, register your car and really find everything you need for a comfortable life.

Why we chose PV:
1. Property prices were inflated but are now again reasonable
2. English speaking well-trained medical practitioners and shop owners
3. Nearby International airport
4. Accessibilty to the US by car, plane or ship
5. Shopping:
a. groceries - local markets plus 3 x Soriana, 2 x Mega, 3 x Walmart, Rizo, Leys
b. electronics - local chains plus Costco and Office Depot
c. pharmacies - CMQ plus Farmacia Guadalajara plus Similaries (many of each) 
d. building supplies - locals plus Home Depot​
Many small specialty shops to fill most every need.

6. Climate:
PV has a Pacific moderate climate and suffers less when big storms and hurricanes hit.
And we have our utilities restored faster. We have had only one hurricanes here in 25 years, but it do not cause the kind of damage as in the other areas. The eye hit San Blas 150 km away but the tidal surge caused water damage. Summers (June through October) are a killer so you need AC. But it is perfect for snowbirds yet many gringos are year-round residents. Some of them go north for holidays in the summer or drive into the mountains around PV. 50 miles south gets you into the high mountain plains, outside of the rain forest.

7. Real Estate:
Bargains? Many buyers are coming down thinking that they can steal properties because that is going on in depressed areas like Florida. Money talks everywhere and if you make a good offer on a house, the seller will negotiate. 7000 unoccupied housing units are available in the Banderas Bay area.

8. Cosmopolitan
There is an established gay community here and so there are many DINK-oriented pursuits: art galeries, fine dining, pubs, theater. Tourist destination status assures that there are outlets for cruise ships and one-week wonders. But the population of 350k also assures that there is something for everyone.

PV does not compete with La Paz, just like San Diego does not compete with Sacramento. There are different and each offers its charms.


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## sandraoaxaca

*Wanting to move from Oaxaca to Puebla.*

I have been teacing ESL for three years here. I have two degrees and want to continue teaching in Puebla. How are the opportunities there? Also, would like to know the better neighborhoods in which to live. We are not crazy about fraccimientos. Too close. Are there many expats, English speakers in Puebla?



Salto_jorge said:


> Besides a vacation or two, have you spent much time in Mexico. Based on experience its not the same, in a short period of time you will visit/see the majority of the sites. After that you will have what nature, locals and your imagation can provide. You may want to spend a month or so in each of your planned destinations before making up your mind. I used to like the beach until I spent several weeks at Rocky Point and Manzanillo and the non stop sand and humidity grew on me.
> 
> We choose GDL, since we can drive to beach (3.5 hrs) or to the Mountains or Lake Chapala in about 1.5 hrs or less. GDL is very diverse since its the second largest city in Mexico. We do not have central heat or air-conditioning. We purchased a portable air-conditioner a few weeks before the rainy season started plus we have electric heaters for when its colder then 60 degrees. You can find a modest place ( < 100K US) to live or spend millions of dollars everything is available.
> 
> 
> 
> No matter where you choose to stay, consider the proximity to the quality of services that you are used to and neighborhoods in the area and that you do not feel out of place.


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## RVGRINGO

Welcome, Sandra.
There are forum members in and around Puebla. Hopefully, some of them can advise you.


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## sandraoaxaca

*Thanks for the information*

I've been living in Oaxaca for 3.5 years. When I first moved here, I was retired and had more time for the many inconveniences of living in this place. However, since my daughter and grandson moved here to live with me, I've been teaching full time for two years now, and it has become increasingly unattractive to live here. 
I understand that each place in Mexico has its pros and cons and we plan to do lots of research about it. We have made many friends here in Oaxaca and do not want to move too far away from them. 
We have friends who are desirous of moving to GDL.


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## kcowan

Can you be more specific about your concerns?


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## sandraoaxaca

*Specifics*

Housing: rental of 3+-bedroom, 2+-bath home with some property in a good neighborhood, furnished or unfurnished. $8000 to $12,000/m.

Employment: teaching ESL, Certified teacher in the states of Georgia, Ohio and New York, B.Ed. in English, Speech and Theater. MA in Marketing Communications, 10 years teaching experience in the states, 3 years ESL in Oaxaca. Many years as marketing director, marketing communciations manager, etc. for both entrepreneurial and Fortune 100 companies. 

What else do you want to know? Do you live in Puebla? Where are you from? Is there a reasonably active English-speaking community from USA, Canada, Britain, etc? I know there are many French and German people living in Puebla.


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## RVGRINGO

If you still have a strong interest in theater, the Lakeside Little Theater is very active, has a wonderful facility and many talented people. So, don't cross Chapala or Ajijic off your list. Lots of activities, bilingual schools, close to Guadalajara, not too far from the Pacific Ocean, etc. No shortage of expats.


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## louixo

*hola*



VVChuck said:


> My wife and I are coming to Mexico in late Sept thru early Oct (18 nites) to house hunt. We've looked via net in primarily 3 areas Quintana Roo (Tulum to Sisal), Baja (La Paz to Cabo) and the Mexican Riviera(Acapulco to Manzanillo). We getting overwhelmed and confused - we saw a lot of places that "look nice" but it always comes down to what would it be like to "live" there. So I'm wide open to your opinions!!! We want to be one of you - an expat enjoying life in Mexico!!! We're from a suburb of Cleveland and are tired of being cold!


we live in cancun. what are you looking for? do you want to be away from people in an isolated area, small town, or city. there are many choices in this state, and something for every price range. if yo uwant to be on the ocean, you will pay alot more than going inland.


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## East Cape Bob

*Something to consider*

I noticed in your post that you mentioned a possible health issue. If you want more "tropical, wet, humid" type of climate you should stick to mainland Mexico (ie. Puerto Vallarta). 
If you want a "dry, hot climate", you might try the area of Baja California Sur in the areas from San Jose del Cabo north to La Paz. There is a great place called "Los Barriles". It is between SJDC and La Paz. It is approximately 45 minutes to one hour north of the airport in SJDC. It is a small village/town right on the Sea of Cortez. Small and friendly.

Hope you find your "Paradise"......Bob


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## englishman

i have a place in Aguascalientes. I wholly recommend it. Great climate, quiet, great food, fresh veg and fruits and lots of good doctors, medical services. Im british.


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## bowenarrow

kcowan said:


> We have friends who moved from Vancouver to Mexico upon retirement in 1997. They moved to Ajijic, then after several years, they tried Manzanillo. Then Puerto Vallarta, and finally Mazatlan. After renting in Maz for three years, they bought their apartment.
> 
> We bought in old town PV after vacationing here for over 15 years. Since we retired, we rented in various locations before putting in an offer to purchase. We bought in 2007. We spend summers in Vancouver to avoid the tropical rainstorms and heat of PV between June and October.


I too am from Vancouver, though at this time I am still stuck here. Besides the decisions on where to move to in Mexico, I have to convince my better half it is a good idea. I'm all for moving lock, stock and barrel, and she wants more like you have: half and half.

We will be in PV in November. Maybe we can buy you a drink and chat about it??

Grant & Courtney


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## kcowan

bowenarrow said:


> We will be in PV in November. Maybe we can buy you a drink and chat about it??
> 
> Grant & Courtney


Sure. Just PM me then and I will call you. There is an active expat community here and many who live here year-round. We have friends who live on Galiano in the summer and the beach at Conchas Chinas from September to June. Another couple live fulltime by Los Arcos but spend some time in San Miguel de Allende in the summer. They also visit kids in Seattle in the summer for a couple of weeks.

Next week is restaurant week here and they feature 3 course meals for 189 pesos. It runs 10 days from the 17th to the 27th. We return on the 25th.


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## bowenarrow

just as soon as they let me PM  Can't wait for November


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## Isla Verde

bowenarrow said:


> just as soon as they let me PM  Can't wait for November


You'll be able to send PMs as soon as you've posted 5 messages.


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## bowenarrow

If replies count, this makes 5


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## Isla Verde

bowenarrow said:


> If replies count, this makes 5


Replies don't count - just messages sent by you.


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## Hound Dog

[_QUOTE=RVGRINGO;333605]You may want to ask yourself where the vast majority of expats live, and why they live there. It has a great deal to do with climate, access to international airports and cities with the cultural events, products and services that they desire.
*Much depends upon your tolerance for heat and humidity on the coast, cold winters without central heating in the higher elevations (7000' etc) or a temperate, more stable climate at about 5000' above sea level*, yet within driving distance to the ocean beaches for a 'getaway'.
The coastal tourist destinations are generally more expensive.[/QUOTE]_

I haven´t read this whole thread but RVGringo´s comment about living in the highlands intrigued me as he compared living at 5,000 feet and 7,000 feet which is exactly what we do at Lake Chapala at Ajijic and in the Chiapas Highlands at San Cristobal de Las Casas respectively. We also spend time at the beach in Mexico, primarily on the Chiapas, Oaxaca or Yucatan Coasts so we have had considerable experience on the Mexican Pacific, Gulf and Caribbean Coasts.

While I grew up near the Alabama Gulf Coast, my wife is from Paris and did not appreciate the heat and humidity there near Mobile so, while, I found the climate on Mobile Bay to be quite delightful, she did not appreciate wilting in the long hot summers there so we ended up moving to San Francisco after a couple of years and retiring to Lake Chapala in 2001 and then to San Cristobal in 2006. When I had the temerity to suggest that we retire on the Mexican Gulf Coast at Isla Holbox or perhaps on the Caribbean at Cozumel I was informed that that was fine with her and she would bequeath me the dawg but she would be retiring to the Central Plateau and I could kiss her hiney. 

Keep in mind that it is not simply altitude that determines climate. The Chiapas Highlands are subject to cold winds coming down the Gulf Coast known in Veracruz st "nortes" so San Cristobal gets some cold, cloudy days in winter that may not be the case in places such as Puebla or Mexico City at the same altitude. People tend to believe they live in precious climates in places they have chosen to live just because that is where they have chosen to live. There is a lot of BS involved here. As one poster said, choose a place you think you will like, rent for a while and if you are disappointed, move on. 

Needless to say, we seek moderate climates and now spend winters and springs in Chiapas and summers and falls at Lake Chapala. Those of you thinking rhat you can gauge a place by someone else´s experience stated on the internet may be in for a rude awakening. I must say that Lake Chapala´s area known as "Lakeside" has a mighty nice climate but is overrun with foreigners, some of them highly unpleasant. Everything is a tradeoff.


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## citlali

I think that before hunting for houses you should narrow down your locations. The only things all the areas you have mentioned have in common is that they are on the sea. 

Sisal to Tulum

The Gulf in Yucatan and the Quintan Roo coast are two very differnt areas. What do yo like and dislike about each?

Acapulco to Manzanillo
Do you want swimming safe beach, surf beaches or do you just want tol ook at the sea?
You cannot get places that are more different than Acapulco, Zihuatanejo, Manzanillo and all the small beach town in between.
What do you like in those areas and what do you dislike?

La Paz Cabo same exercise.

You need to figure out what you think you are going to do with the rest of your life at the beach and then decide what area you should explore.

At least September is the hurricane season so you can see what you like or dislike about the weather.

You are getting confused because you have not put down your like and dislikes your must have and cannot stand list a. You also need a budget but once you know the area you want to go to you can always find a place that will fit your budget. It may take time but eventually you will find what you want.

Get choice one and two in the areas you have listed and go from there.

DO not house hunt first or you are putting yourself in a situation where you will end up in a place you may or may not like because of a house and rent for one year or two first.


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## Hound Dog

[_I]


travelpro747 said:



I will be moving to Baja later this year for retirement. I grew up in San Diego County and have been going there since 1955.

 I have chosen the Rosarito Beach area (just south) for some simple reasons. [
/I]1. There is no better weather period. Not just in Mexico, but just about anywhere in the world, and I have traveled extensively.

Nonsense. Fog-bound Rosarito Beach has the best climate in Mexico? I think not. The place is washed by the cold Pacific Ocean (in that area) and is a plain town with little if any charm. Dawg lived in L.A. and worked often in San Diiego, ogten traveling to Rosarito Beach, both plain, desert towns beset by morning fogs in the summer and winters enducing yawns.

We live in the Chapala and Chiapas highlands and either place would eat your place in three minutes and be tastier withut the required ketchup needed to make yout place palatable. 

2. Proximity to US and family. This is more personal for me as I have family close by, but being close to the US has many other positive aspects as well.

The lats thing Dawg wants is to be close to the dreaded U.S. 

3. Great food and great beaches. No exclusive here, but no humidity and it's never cold and never HOT. I lived in Boston and Greenwich, CT. NO THANKS. 

Well, now I understand. Boston and Greenwich. I grew up and thrived in Mobile on the Alabama Gulf Coast. No hard rocks and blizzards in my past. 

4. This really should be number one on the list, and most current expats will agree....the best reason to live anywhere in Mexico is the Mexicans. They are simply the nicest, most friendly, helpful people you will ever meet. Anyone who has spent much time in Mexico has at least one great story to tell in this regard. Many of us are fortunate enough to have dozens of them.

Mexicans do not need your pandering to feel virtuous. 

The advice to rent is the best advice anyone can give you. Mexico is wonderful, but it is not the USA and if you have not spent a LOT of time here, don't commit yourself to a purchase until you have at least a year under your belt. One thing Mexico does have in common with the US right now is a lousy real estate market so if you buy and find you made a mistake, you might live with that mistake for a very long time. 


Mxico is not wonderful. Mexico is a place inhabited by human beings and as nice and not as nice as any other place so cursed. Get over it.

Best of luck in finding your own special spot.

Click to expand...

_


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## Hound Dog

Speaking of finding the best place to live in retirement , a more complex task than many may imagine and that includes the country one decides, finally in which tp sttle. I say in retirement because, as we al no, where one lives while pursuig a career is normally dictated by the necessity of earning a living. When one retires and, assuming and reasonably adequate retirement income, one has much more flexibility within the financial constraints that limit us all in the final decision we make . 

Whatever decision one makes as to the best place to retire, that decsion may not make as much sense as it appeared to have made originally because things change over time as we all know and today´s safe haven may be tomorrow´s nighmare. For example, we picked the Mexican Highlands over the Colombian Highlands in 2001 because of the very serious drug wars going on in Colombia and a general state of seeming anarchy in those days in the highland cities we preferred and then, lo and behold, those drug wars, while never really leaving Colonmbia, became a serious problem in Mexico a few years later with the advent of Calderon´s drug offensive in 2006. If one is lucky and has a couple of decades or so to live in retirement, there is no way to really predict political and social changes that may come to one´s chosen retirement spot. 

When we finally chose Mexico as our most desirable retirement spot, we ddi our research and one of us flew dowm here from San Francisco to choose among Guadalajara, Lake Chapala, Cuernavaca, Oaxaca City and Mérida by visiting each area but with a strong predisposition at that time to move to Oaxaca after glowing praise of that city we heard from Mexican friends in those days. Well, my wife was the designated selector of tat place in which we presumed we would live out our lives and first flew into Guadalajara because that was the best non-wtop flight from the bay Area and within a few days she had found a home near Lake Chapala that she immediately fell in love with and so so much for that far flung search around Mexico for our favorite place in which to retire. It was an impetuous decision but worked out well over the years but that was just dumb luck and today I would tell anyone who inquired that the most prudent action woiuld have been to rent for a time - perhaps a year or more - to get acclimated to a place before making any major financial commitment to a particular town or neighborhood. 

Later, the notion of renting for a time before buying a retirement property became clearer to us when we decided in 2006 to buy a second home in San Cristóbal de Las Casas, Chiapas 
during a trip to Soujhern Mexico to check out properties in Oaxaca City. Mérida and San Cristóbal and chose San Cristóbal when we experienced splendid high mountain sunny, brilliant weather during our short stay there. Later, when living in the Chiapas Highlands, we learned that those beautiful sunny days with the crystal air can turn cold, cloudy and forbidding with copious rains coming down in sheets and flooding streets and valleys at 7,000 feet. Now, we do not regret buying a home in San Cristóbal despite the erratic and, at times, unpleasant claimet but that is because we can always escape to Lake Chapala, with its almost perfect year round climate for months at a time. 

When one is retired one does not need a dismal and uncertain climate to spend one´s golden years staring out the window at the rains and fog.


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## Howler

citlali said:


> You need to figure out what you think you are going to do with the rest of your life at the beach and then decide what area you should explore.


One thing I intend to do with the rest of my life _IF_ I decide to settle on the coast somewhere is... *EAT LOTS OF SEAFOOD!!!*
  

Yep, you gotta eat if you're going to have a "rest of your life"!!

Seriously, my wife & I will be looking over Taxco & Queretaro carefully this summer. She is from Veracruz (the port) & I'm from the coast of North Carolina. Although we love the coast for all of its 'amenities' we want a more stable & moderate climate on a year-round basis. No matter where you are in Mexico, a coast is nearby for a quick visit or short stay.

Good luck with your search & final decision!!


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## Isla Verde

Howler said:


> No matter where you are in Mexico, a coast is nearby for a quick visit or short stay.


It depends on your definition of "nearby". The coast is several hours away from Mexico City, and I don't consider that nearby.


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## Howler

Isla Verde said:


> It depends on your definition of "nearby". The coast is several hours away from Mexico City, and I don't consider that nearby.


I've made that trip (DF to Veracruz) several times by bus or driving. It never seemed so far for me - within a day's journey. 

On a map Mexico City looks almost centered between Veracruz, Tuxpan, Zihuatenejo & Acapulco. In 2003 we made the drive in about 4 1/2 hours from Taxco to Acapulco. Most of the students I was with would make a run down there on a day trip or for weekends and still make it back with enough time to get sunburned.

I guess it's a matter of perspective & convenience. Compared to living in Oklahoma, Utah or Idaho - I'll take Mexico for a trip to the coast - and access to that FRESH seafood!!


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## Longford

Howler said:


> I've made that trip (DF to Veracruz) several times by bus or driving. It never seemed so far for me - within a day's journey.
> 
> On a map Mexico City looks almost centered between Veracruz, Tuxpan, Zihuatenejo & Acapulco. In 2003 we made the drive in about 4 1/2 hours from Taxco to Acapulco. Most of the students I was with would make a run down there on a day trip or for weekends and still make it back with enough time to get sunburned.
> 
> I guess it's a matter of perspective & convenience. Compared to living in Oklahoma, Utah or Idaho - I'll take Mexico for a trip to the coast - and access to that FRESH seafood!!


By bus, Acapulco is 5 hours away from Mexico City. Veracruz is a 6 hour trip. Both by bus. By auto the trip takes less time, for many people.


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## tepetapan

Howler said:


> One thing I intend to do with the rest of my life _IF_ I decide to settle on the coast somewhere is... *EAT LOTS OF SEAFOOD!!!*
> 
> 
> Yep, you gotta eat if you're going to have a "rest of your life"!!
> 
> Seriously, my wife & I will be looking over Taxco & Queretaro carefully this summer. She is from Veracruz (the port) & I'm from the coast of North Carolina. Although we love the coast for all of its 'amenities' we want a more stable & moderate climate on a year-round basis. No matter where you are in Mexico, a coast is nearby for a quick visit or short stay.
> 
> Good luck with your search & final decision!!


 Stable weather and close to the beach?
Taxco is not close to the beach
Taxco, Guerrero Travel Weather Averages (Weatherbase)

Queretaro is not close to the beach
Quertaro, Quertaro Travel Weather Averages (Weatherbase)

Catemaco is close to the beach and your wife´s home town.
Catemaco, Veracruz Travel Weather Averages (Weatherbase)

With average highs of 82F and average lows of 67F, life does not get much better than Catemaco. And FRESH seafood to be found all over the area since we are just 25 minutes from the Gulf of Mexico.


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## Howler

tepetapan said:


> Stable weather and close to the beach?
> Taxco is not close to the beach
> Taxco, Guerrero Travel Weather Averages (Weatherbase)
> 
> Queretaro is not close to the beach
> Quertaro, Quertaro Travel Weather Averages (Weatherbase)
> 
> Catemaco is close to the beach and your wife´s home town.
> Catemaco, Veracruz Travel Weather Averages (Weatherbase)
> 
> With average highs of 82F and average lows of 67F, life does not get much better than Catemaco. And FRESH seafood to be found all over the area since we are just 25 minutes from the Gulf of Mexico.


I appreciate your undeniable point that Catemaco is close to the beach...

My wife is from the port city of Veracruz with family living also in Martinez de la Torre. I lived in Veracruz back '78 & '79 and have been back many times for visits & vacations. However, we never got the chance to go to Catemaco. We planned it a couple of times, but my suegra wouldn't have it because it was "la tierra de brujos"... She has since passed away, qué Dios la bendiga. Needless to say, we never got to see the big lake, the monkeys, the seafood, etc...

Thanks to your enthusiasm, I think I'll put it on our agenda again, maybe for this summer!!


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## Hound Dog

[_QUOTE=Howler;1168620]One thing I intend to do with the rest of my life IF I decide to settle on the coast somewhere is... *EAT LOTS OF SEAFOOD!!!*
  

Yep, you gotta eat if you're going to have a "rest of your life"!!

Seriously, my wife & I will be looking over Taxco & Queretaro carefully this summer. She is from Veracruz (the port) & I'm from the coast of North Carolina. Although we love the coast for all of its 'amenities' we want a more stable & moderate climate on a year-round basis. No matter where you are in Mexico, a coast is nearby for a quick visit or short stay.

Good luck with your search & final decision!![/QUOTE]_

OK, Howler, Tepetan has just posted that you should consider living in Catemaco, Veracruz since that small town is within an hours drive of Veracruz City and that is not a bad place if a bit of a hick town but perhaps another point of view would be appropriate. First of all, you do not have to live within a few kilometers of any Mexican coast to get good seafood since, in Mexico, seafood, whether from the Pacific, Gulf or Caribbean, is typically shipped to centrally located "Mercados del Mar" from which it is redistributed back to restaurants all over the region whether on the coast or 1,000 kilometers inland.

This means that you can get fine seafood in such inland cities at Queretaro or Guadalajara or Puebla or, needless to say, Mexico City, hours from the sea, that is every bit as good. or perhaps even better, as that you would receive on the beach or some place near the sea such as Catemaco. 

We just drove up to Lake Chapala from Chiapas via Tehuantepec, Oaxaca through the Oaxacan and Guerrero Coasts through Acapulco ad on to Taxco and Lake Chapala and had great seafood all the way but we could have dupilcated that experience inland in sophisticated cities such as Queretaro so don´t pick your new town on the basis of the availability of the freshest seafood. That is a myth and you sure as hell don´t want to move into trailer park city just because it´s 50 kilometers off the Gulf just for fresh seafood..

When we were first married in 1971 and lived directly on Mobile Bay on the Alabama Gulf, we used to watch the shrimpboats come in and dock on the bay and we used to run down to the docks to get the freshest shrimp before they threw them into refer trucks to haul them off to Chicago. That´s where the money was. Don´t forget that if you think a place like Catemaco sounds romantic and a place to get a great shrimp cocktail. The best seafood seeks out the money anywhere in the world.


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## kimo

For a working class area, not overrun with tourists, with lots of nob familiar stores, Manzanillo would be my choice, waited for a bus outside Walmart for 30 minutes, and not one person came by begging for money, layed on the beach for 3-4 hours, same thing, and no one trying to sell us trinkets etc. and also Manzanillo has some of the lowest real estate , prices on the coast, for a developed city of its size.


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## palaco1943

lane:


TundraGreen said:


> You didn't ask me but I will tell you why I like Guadalajara Centro better than Lake Chapala. For background, I lived in Queretaro and Guadalajara for two years before deciding where to settle. I have visited Chapala/Ajijic three or four times.
> 
> I like Guadalajara Centro because:
> I can walk to several mercados
> Mercado Abastos is a short bus ride
> There are 4 or 5 panaderias within a 5 minute walk
> There are 2 tlaperias within a 5 minute walk
> The Teatro Diana is a 30 minute walk away, 15 minutes by bus, for opera in the fall
> The Teatro Degallado is a 15 minute walk away for other cultural events
> Cineforo of the Univ. de Guadalajara shows foreign films and is 10 minutes on foot
> There are two Cinepolis complexes within walking distance
> I have no idea how many bars and restaurants but it is lots within walking distance
> Home Depot is one bus ride away.
> (Costco and Walmart are a bus ride away, but I never shop at Walmart and rarely at Costco)
> There are half dozen or more choices for language schools to work on my spanish
> I could afford a delightful, huge old mexican style adobe house with three patios
> My neighbors are all mexicanos
> The plazas have free outdoor entertainment often
> There are 20+ km of roads closed for recreation every Sunday
> 
> What Guadalajara Centro does not have is a scenic lake to stroll along every morning nor a huge community of English speakers.
> 
> You pick what is important to you.
> 
> My two cents and worth just what you paid for it.
> Will


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## palaco1943

my name is frank, presently living in santa barbara, ca.,would like to know if there are condos in downtown guadalajara to rent or buy? Thank`s.


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## vantexan

tepetapan said:


> Stable weather and close to the beach?
> Taxco is not close to the beach
> Taxco, Guerrero Travel Weather Averages (Weatherbase)
> 
> Queretaro is not close to the beach
> Quertaro, Quertaro Travel Weather Averages (Weatherbase)
> 
> Catemaco is close to the beach and your wife´s home town.
> Catemaco, Veracruz Travel Weather Averages (Weatherbase)
> 
> With average highs of 82F and average lows of 67F, life does not get much better than Catemaco. And FRESH seafood to be found all over the area since we are just 25 minutes from the Gulf of Mexico.


I've had PM's from some about Catemaco. Looks like my fiancée and I will be moving to Guatemala in early 2015. We'd consider various places in Mexico IF they are similar in costs. We'd like to keep a monthly budget to $1000 or less, which I'm sure we could do in Guatemala and several other countries. More than anything we'd like to eat healthy with a wide selection of produce at low prices and we want good Internet. How does Catemaco stack up?


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## RVGRINGO

Frank,
For all sorts of apartment rentals in Guadalajara:

Probably thousands. Let Google be your friend. Google Earth will let you have a peek at the neighborhoods as well.


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## Hound Dog

_


vantexan said:



I've had PM's from some about Catemaco. Looks like my fiancée and I will be moving to Guatemala in early 2015. We'd consider various places in Mexico IF they are similar in costs. We'd like to keep a monthly budget to $1000 or less, which I'm sure we could do in Guatemala and several other countries. More than anything we'd like to eat healthy with a wide selection of produce at low prices and we want good Internet. How does Catemaco stack up?

Click to expand...

_I can´t speak for Catemaco which is a quite small town to which we have traveled but because we were just visiting, never shopped in for produce. Perhaps that is a good selection for you.

If you are looking for reasonable living costs similar to those in parts of Guatemala, I suggest San Cristóbal de Las Casas, Chiapas, a short distance from the Guatemala border and very similar to Guatemala of which it used to be a part until the 19th Century. Since you mentioned the importance of eating healthy with a wide variety of produce I will tell you that the _huge _indigenous market in San Cristóbal near the Convent of Santo Domingo - a marvelous area in the historic city - has an unbelievable slection of the freshest produce mostly grown locally in the milpas of the indigenous villages in the high mountains ssurrounding San Cristóbal. The indigenous Maya in the Jovel Valley and surrounding mountainside communities are primarily vegetarians and eat little meat and we get the freshest and best produce there we have ever found in Mexico or juat about anywhere else for unbellievably low prices. The San Cristóbal indigenous marke does have some produce from the abastos but most is grown in local milpas and brought to the valley daily by local farmers. A splendid diet we thoroughly enjoy when living there seasonally and produce that is indescribably better than that we get in the tianguis or "organic! markets at Lake Chapala.

You can certainly live in Chiapas for the same cost of living as Guatemala and I recommend you reseach that alternative.


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## vantexan

Hound Dog said:


> I can´t speak for Catemaco which is a quite small town to which we have traveled but because we were just visiting, never shopped in for produce. Perhaps that is a good selection for you.
> 
> If you are looking for reasonable living costs similar to those in parts of Guatemala, I suggest San Cristóbal de Las Casas, Chiapas, a short distance from the Guatemala border and very similar to Guatemala of which it used to be a part until the 19th Century. Since you mentioned the importance of eating healthy with a wide variety of produce I will tell you that the _huge _indigenous market in San Cristóbal near the Convent of Santo Domingo - a marvelous area in the historic city - has an unbelievable slection of the freshest produce mostly grown locally in the milpas of the indigenous villages in the high mountains ssurrounding San Cristóbal. The indigenous Maya in the Jovel Valley and surrounding mountainside communities are primarily vegetarians and eat little meat and we get the freshest and best produce there we have ever found in Mexico or juat about anywhere else for unbellievably low prices. The San Cristóbal indigenous marke does have some produce from the abastos but most is grown in local milpas and brought to the valley daily by local farmers. A splendid diet we thoroughly enjoy when living there seasonally and produce that is indescribably better than that we get in the tianguis or "organic! markets at Lake Chapala.
> 
> You can certainly live in Chiapas for the same cost of living as Guatemala and I recommend you reseach that alternative.


Well actually Dawg it was you who discouraged me from Chiapas without an excellent command of Spanish. I've been interested in San Cristobal for years but your advice plus reports I've seen of high rental prices due to an influx of Europeans lead me elsewhere. There are enough English speaking expats and locals in Guatemala to make me feel comfortable living there and I certainly intend to work on the Spanish. Another area of interest is the coffee growing towns near Xalapa. And apparently there's an expat enclave and quite a few English speaking locals in Jerez, Zacatecas which seems to have a nice climate and reasonable costs. The Dollar has fallen as you know recently and considering the higher financial requirements I have to get the most I can out of my pension, especially since I'll be paying for two.


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## Hound Dog

[_QUOTE=vantexan;1171603]Well actually Dawg it was you who discouraged me from Chiapas without an excellent command of Spanish. I've been interested in San Cristobal for years but your advice plus reports I've seen of high rental prices due to an influx of Europeans lead me elsewhere. There are enough English speaking expats and locals in Guatemala to make me feel comfortable living there and I certainly intend to work on the Spanish. Another area of interest is the coffee growing towns near Xalapa. And apparently there's an expat enclave and quite a few English speaking locals in Jerez, Zacatecas which seems to have a nice climate and reasonable costs. The Dollar has fallen as you know recently and considering the higher financial requirements I have to get the most I can out of my pension, especially since I'll be paying for two. [/QUOTE]_

Forgive me vantexan, for sending mixed messages but when you mentioned a healthy diet mostly consisting of vegetables and spoke of a place similar to Guatemala with great produce you gtot me all charged up because we eat splendidly of the finest fresh, locally grown produce at great prices there. I must admit, however, that a poor command of Spanish is a handicap there which I am able to overcome because of my wife´s command of Spanish and English (damn French and their language skills). 

You sound like you are on the right track to immerse yourself into a Norh American Latin Culture and I wish you the best of luck.


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## gwizzzzz

Your going to e warmer where ever you go in Mexico but your going to have to make some ig decisions and they can only be based on what you like and want, to each his own personally i love the Baja but could not live in the Yucatan, weigh your options and then rent before you commit.


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## Hound Dog

I´ll tell you why, if you are a dog lover, living on the shores of Lake Chapala is your best bet in most of Mexico or just about anywhere else for that matter. Those of you not yet accustomed to Mexico may not realize at this point that open land where you can walk and play with your dogs is not all that readily available in Mexico as the land is almost all privately owned or presumed to be owned with great and dangerous assertiveness (Mexicans in general are very serious about land claims and unwelcoming to trespassers to say the least) and the towns are generally very crowded with contiguous dwellings and commercial establishments so the streets are crowded concrete with few parks and plazas where you can walk your dogs and when you do in these urban environments, picking up dog poop is a recurring responsibility if you are even remotely civilized. To add to this problem, in places such as San Cristóbal de Las Casas, Chiapas where we also live, any dog escaping your home or inadvertently left on the street is subject to entrapment and instant death at the hands of municipal authorities as is required since dog packs are a serious problem in urban areas, just as they are in the U.S., if not erradicated. 

Here is a key point you may not understand if you do not live on Lake Chapala. Most of the inhabitants whether of local origin or expats or even the vile tourists who desecrate the beaches with their trash every weekend, stay within the confines of the central town and rarely ever venture onto easily accessable far flung beaches where solitary walking with you dog pack is a heaven-sent treat. As a consequence, yu have these countless kilometers of deserted, hard packed, easily walkable forever beaches almost all to yourself. Try that in San Cristóbal or Puebla or Oaxaca City or a thousand other places you have considered as retirement havens in Mexico. 

Now, I´m only telling you folks this because I know most of you will never move here, walk my extraordinary and solitarily beach where my dogs are freely at full play and cause me and my dogs to forfeit some of our freedoms to accomodate you. Please go find a pocket of exotica somwhere distant from Hounds Dog´s kintergarden. 

By the way, no place is exotic after six months.


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## kcowan

We walk our friends' dog around Nuevo Vallarta. We have a poop bag and a leash around our neck but otherwise encounter no trouble. Plus the lovable little dog is a veritable chick magnet.

This is both on the streets and on the beach.


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## Hound Dog

_


kcowan said:



We walk our friends' dog around Nuevo Vallarta. We have a poop bag and a leash around our neck but otherwise encounter no trouble. Plus the lovable little dog is a veritable chick magnet.

This is both on the streets and on the beach.

Click to expand...

_Ah, yes, the old "chick magnet" routine. I wish I had thought of that in my 20s. Today my dogs only attract indigenous folks in San Cristóbal de Las Casas, where there is no beach, proclaiming _"¡Xoloitzquinti_!" where Azteca hairless dogs are much admired but I have found that this affection for my babies does not carry over to their human parents. 

As the French say, by the time you have learned how to live, it´s too late.


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## Isla Verde

Hound Dog said:


> As the French say, by the time you have learned how to live, it´s too late.


I'm not an essentially optimistic person, but this is too gloomy for me. I prefer "it's never too late" as a motto to live by.


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## vantexan

Isla Verde said:


> I'm not an essentially optimistic person, but this is too gloomy for me. I prefer "it's never too late" as a motto to live by.


It's really an ironic statement. The French have one of the world's fattiest diets with one of the world's lowest rates of heart disease. Researchers say it's the red wine they drink with meals from childhood that causes this "French Paradox". So in reality they knew how to live all along.


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## Isla Verde

vantexan said:


> It's really an ironic statement. The French have one of the world's fattiest diets with one of the world's lowest rates of heart disease. Researchers say it's the red wine they drink with meals from childhood that causes this "French Paradox". So in reality they knew how to live all along.


It may be ironic, but it's also on the gloomy side, at least it is for me.


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## Hound Dog

_


vantexan said:



It's really an ironic statement. The French have one of the world's fattiest diets with one of the world's lowest rates of heart disease. Researchers say it's the red wine they drink with meals from childhood that causes this "French Paradox". So in reality they knew how to live all along.

Click to expand...

_This is off the subject but worthy of discussion in my opinion.

"The French Paradox" is a bit misleading for the non-French among us. Dawg married into a French family over 40 years ago and I have learned over the years with many visits to France and countless meals eaten at the family table, that there are some essential differences in the way the French dine and people in the U.S. dine. 

No question that the French love their table wines and eat a wide variety of foods some of which may be fatty but the true secret of French survival is that they have traditionally tended to eat small portions of a wide variety of foods and, unlike my U.S. brethren, the French disdain drunkenness and becoming looped at the dinner table (or anywhere else) is considered unacceptable behavior. While it might be commonplace for all the ole boys at the BBQ up there in the U.S. to get smashed on hard spirits while smoking that pork butt, pre-dinner drinking is not commonplace at all in France beyond, perhaps, one modest "aperitif" when guests are in attendance, normally a fortified wine, not a hard liquor, and during the often multi-course meal, the rule is moderation in everything including the ingestion of wine at the table. French meals, at least in the old days, always consisted, at least in my French family, of different foods that constituted the spectrum of what one would consider a well balanced diet. Yes, there would be modest servings of fatty cheeses and, perhaps, some foie gras but always a salad and vegetablle dish along with a modest portion of meat, poultry or fish. 

As everywhere, things are changing in France as well. When I first went there in the 1960s it was hard to spot a fat person and, as a tub myself, I could not find clothes large enough to fit me. With the advent of fast foods and the necessity of both adults in the family having to work to survive econically, many French have taken to those fast foods and sugared soft drinks and quick meals at home and, thus, they have started porking up to the point I can now find my chothing sizes there. There is something good to say about every trend.


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## Thomas Lloyd

Hi VVChuck!
[ ] As an expat myself as well I can tell you that Playa del Carmen for instance is an excellent comfortable place to live and has the added comfort in knowing that you are living amongst a high percentage of expats. Needless to say, you wouldn't stick out here. With that being said, there are other wonderful parts of Mexico where you will feel the same comfort and happiness as in the Riviera Maya. It's just about what suits you best. Each area offers its own charm and benefits. I recommend you getting familiar with each location that is a maybe for you and feel what life is like there. As some mentioned in their other responses, one area might not be for them while another suits them perfectly. This goes for anything; cars even clothes. We need to find the perfect fit and style! [ ] I hope that my 3 cents was a bit helpful!
Have a great day!


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## dkg767

I have visited the Ajijic, Mx. area now for some 11 years. It is a very large ex-pat community, which has it's advantages and disadvantages, but I like the mixture. I am very active with my tennis game and have found many different groups, many of which are Mexican ( better players/younger). I have stayed with numerous friends and recently rented for 5 months over the winter. A good idea is to rent and actively look at realestate with numerous Realtors, then purchase if you prefer and find the "right" deal. There is SO much available. The climate is the best in the world, as had been scribed in Natl Geo. a few years ago ( 14??). Any way, you get a superb climate, friendly people, active/diverse people, close to Guadalahara and even closer to the Int'l airport, with SO much to do when it comes to volunteerism and Clubs. Jump in and enjoy!!


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## Tucson

Thomas Lloyd said:


> Hi VVChuck!
> [ ] As an expat myself as well I can tell you that Playa del Carmen for instance is an excellent comfortable place to live and has the added comfort in knowing that you are living amongst a high percentage of expats. Needless to say, you wouldn't stick out here. With that being said, there are other wonderful parts of Mexico where you will feel the same comfort and happiness as in the Riviera Maya. It's just about what suits you best. Each area offers its own charm and benefits. I recommend you getting familiar with each location that is a maybe for you and feel what life is like there. As some mentioned in their other responses, one area might not be for them while another suits them perfectly. This goes for anything; cars even clothes. We need to find the perfect fit and style! [ ] I hope that my 3 cents was a bit helpful!
> Have a great day!


You have nailed it, Thomas Lloyd! PDC is every bit as excellent and comfortable as you describe. It suits us as well! We live in Puerto Aventuras (a little further up the road, towards Tulum) and go to PDC often. PDC is a large city (300,000+ population distributed over a large area) and has everything to offer, provided you prefer the sea to the mountains. 

PA in Q. Roo has been our second home for nearly 8 years now and it is always such a wonderful treat to return again and again. We enjoy the food, people, safety, wide range of activities (besides beach-going), and the peacefulness of our marina oriented community. 

The Riviera Maya has a fantastic, distinct character and flavor very unlike most of Mexico; the heavily Mayan population has a lot to do with that. Two thumbs up for the Riviera Maya!


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## elsonador

To each his own. In my opinion PDC doesn't offer much that is distinctly Mexican. 5th Ave is a horrible tourist trap with overpriced low quality food. Also lots of Argentines in PDC I noticed. If I were to live in la costa maya I would have to go with Tulum or even Cancun as Cancun has a somewhat bustling city and local markets outside of Paradise America

The best restaurant in Playa is El Fogon, well worth it even if there's a line out the door!


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## Isla Verde

elsonador said:


> To each his own. In my opinion PDC doesn't offer much that is distinctly Mexican. 5th Ave is a horrible tourist trap with overpriced low quality food. Also lots of Argentines in PDC I noticed.


Maybe the fact that PDC isn't very Mexican is why there are so many Argentinians there.


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## Tucson

Isla Verde said:


> Maybe the fact that PDC isn't very Mexican is why there are so many Argentinians there.


"Mexican" meaning ...? What, exactly?? 

If a Mayan "Mexican" speaks Mayan, is he or she "Mexican?" There are plenty of those "Mexicans" here in the Mayan Riviera! Is a "Mexican" defined as a Spanish-speaking transplant? What, then, defines a "Mexican?" I'm just saying ...

Seems we all find our little different piece of "Mexican" paradise and it isn't always the same for everyone of us but, to consider the PDC "Mexican" population non-"Mexican", (even if it is so varied as to include other Spanish-speaking people) is a reach. Lots of people from everywhere live here in Mexico and, if any of us look around our own communities in Mexico, we will see many non-"Mexicans" in the mix. And they all seem pretty darned tolerant!

When we visited Cape Cod (USA, New England) last year, we were told by the "locals" (non-Mexican, regular USA people) that there were an awful lot of Argentinians as well as Brazilians coming in: working, living, buying and becoming part of the fabric of the community. We did see many local markets dedicated to Argentinians and were served by many "Argentinians" in the local businesses. They're here too, folks! 

The Mayan Riviera is a delightful place, full of "Mexican-Mayans" (no rolling eyes icon added here) as well as lots of other people from all over, too. What do any of us think the local "Mexican" population considers us? Locals? I think not. Keep an open mind and respect the culture you are going out of your way to experience, warts and all. 

Mexico is something different to everyone and we all seem to find our own size and fit, as an earlier poster commented. Let's work on our tolerance as we hope others will also be tolerant of us.


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## vantexan

Tucson said:


> "Mexican" meaning ...? What, exactly??
> 
> If a Mayan "Mexican" speaks Mayan, is he or she "Mexican?" There are plenty of those "Mexicans" here in the Mayan Riviera! Is a "Mexican" defined as a Spanish-speaking transplant? What, then, defines a "Mexican?" I'm just saying ...
> 
> Seems we all find our little different piece of "Mexican" paradise and it isn't always the same for everyone of us but, to consider the PDC "Mexican" population non-"Mexican", (even if it is so varied as to include other Spanish-speaking people) is a reach. Lots of people from everywhere live here in Mexico and, if any of us look around our own communities in Mexico, we will see many non-"Mexicans" in the mix. And they all seem pretty darned tolerant!
> 
> When we visited Cape Cod (USA, New England) last year, we were told by the "locals" (non-Mexican, regular USA people) that there were an awful lot of Argentinians as well as Brazilians coming in: working, living, buying and becoming part of the fabric of the community. We did see many local markets dedicated to Argentinians and were served by many "Argentinians" in the local businesses. They're here too, folks!
> 
> The Mayan Riviera is a delightful place, full of "Mexican-Mayans" (no rolling eyes icon added here) as well as lots of other people from all over, too. What do any of us think the local "Mexican" population considers us? Locals? I think not. Keep an open mind and respect the culture you are going out of your way to experience, warts and all.
> 
> Mexico is something different to everyone and we all seem to find our own size and fit, as an earlier poster commented. Let's work on our tolerance as we hope others will also be tolerant of us.


Good point. If one would like to find a nice place to live near the U.S. border he'd better not mention it on expat forums. I've asked questions in the past about places near the border and was told that that's not the real Mexico and asked why I would want to maintain a close distance to the States? There are Pueblos Magicos near the border too. Certainly safety with cartel activity is a concern but if things settle down and the cost is right it's certainly worth considering.


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## deborahc9133

Ha! I know about weather in NE Ohio! I grew up in Painesville. 80 one day, snow the next


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## Judy786

I am also looking to move to Mexico - the Tulum area. Seems like it is the place that is going to grow in the future. If you live in Tulum or the area can you please tell me the best real estate company. We want to live in a community that offers things to do, restaurants, activities and safe 
thanks


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## Isla Verde

Judy786 said:


> I am also looking to move to Mexico - the Tulum area. Seems like it is the place that is going to grow in the future. If you live in Tulum or the area can you please tell me the best real estate company. We want to live in a community that offers things to do, restaurants, activities and safe
> thanks


I hope you find a place to move to in Mexico that suits you. Just curious as to why you're thinking of leaving Nicaragua.


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## Judy786

we are originally from Canada and want to be closer to home and still have wonderful weather with no winter! where do you live?


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## Isla Verde

Judy786 said:


> we are originally from Canada and want to be closer to home and still have wonderful weather with no winter! where do you live?


Mexico City.


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## citlali

The center in San Cristobal has expensive houses wether you buy or rent for what you get but get out of the historical center and it is cheap. Life here in general is inexpensive. The produce is inexpensive and so are the services.

By the way Vantexan, I do not find Guatemala that cheap . I traveled there extensively last year and as a rule the hotels were more expensive than in Chiapas and for the same price you good get a much beter deal in Chiapas. 
The food in Mexico is better l. The quetzal was high i comparaison to the peso so I found things overpriced compared to Mexico. 
Guatemala used to be a great value, I do not look at it this way anymore, at least for travelling, do not know about living there.


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## Judy786

does anyone in this forum live in Tulum?


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## Tucson

Judy786 said:


> does anyone in this forum live in Tulum?


We live close by, our community is Puerto Aventuras. Between Playa del Carmen and Tulum, you will find a few communities: Paamul, Puerto Aventuras, and Akumal. If you are looking for real estate recommendations, IPM (Investment Properties Mexico) and "Akumal Investments" and "real estate tulum" would be good internet search places to start (they all have their own websites).

If you have not yet done so, you may want to check out the local on-line free newspapers and forums for our Quintana Roo area (there are three I find especially helpful): Pelican Free Press and Online Community & Travel Guide, Serving Playa del Carmen, Riviera Maya, & Costa Maya | In The Roo and Playa del Carmen info. 

The March 26, 2014 issue of Pelican Free Press had an article called "PA Pair Sees Future For Tulum, Invests in Housing Market There." Very positive story.


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## Judy786

thank you so much for all your wonderful information!
Judy


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## vantexan

citlali said:


> The center in San Cristobal has expensive houses wether you buy or rent for what you get but get out of the historical center and it is cheap. Life here in general is inexpensive. The produce is inexpensive and so are the services.
> 
> By the way Vantexan, I do not find Guatemala that cheap . I traveled there extensively last year and as a rule the hotels were more expensive than in Chiapas and for the same price you good get a much beter deal in Chiapas.
> The food in Mexico is better l. The quetzal was high i comparaison to the peso so I found things overpriced compared to Mexico.
> Guatemala used to be a great value, I do not look at it this way anymore, at least for travelling, do not know about living there.


Where did you travel in Guatemala? Antigua is very expensive but get outside of it 15 minutes, Ciudad Viejo for example, and prices are less than half. Anywhere in Guatemala there's a concentration of expats you'll see higher prices. One of the reasons Chiapas is overall very affordable is it's next to Guatemala, or am I mistaken? Certainly more affordable than much of Mexico, if not the lowest cost state.


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## citlali

Flores, Rio Dulce, Livingstone, Guatemala City, Antigua, Pana and back to the border I also went to some small towns I do not even remember the name of. Nothing to remember or going back for.

I speak fluent Spanish and was travelling with Mexican friends . Gas and transportation is more expensive than in Mexico so some things follows. The hotels we stayed in except in Antigua and Pana were way below the quality we found in Mexico for the same price.

We travelled by public transportation and public buses, the roads are not great to say the least .

You can travel cheaply but so can you in Mexico. As far as we were concerned the place is not the bargain it used to be.

You are telling me that where ever expats concentrate the prices are up?? I live in Mexico and have done so for 13 years and I have been to Guatemala, I am just telling you what I saw. I have no intrest in living there so I was not looking at the prices of the houses for sale or for rent.
Actually the hotel in Antigua was good and had a good price as we ended up renting a room and ended up with a place that had two lofts and a large bedroom burnished with a traditional nice furnitue.. The place was a bargain.
It seems that the high end places were more of a bargain than te cheap places that were not well kept and did not change towels, did not clean rooms everyday because "their clients did not want people to enter the rooms when they were not there " (Flores)

We stayed in every type of accomodation from rock bottom price to high end.

No Chiapas is not cheap because of Guatemala. It is chap because it is a poor state catering to mochila tourism and tours.
I think San Cristobal has too many hotels so you can find many cheap posadas at a very good price even in the center.

Chiapas outside of San Cristobal is a different story, the state is very poor and has very little tourists going through so if you stay in a decent business hotel you can get a very nice room, clean with tv bathroom in one of the top hotel for 200 pesos. (Bochil) but then you have to have business there otherwise there is no reason to go there.

Got all of our brakes checked in that town for 100 pesos. The wheels were taken out, the brake pads were polished after the man looked all over town for new ones and returned without any.put the pads and wheels back.

Not a town I would recommend to anyone but cheap it is..


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## Judy786

Tucsan how did you pick Puerto Adventuras? are you going to retire there? what is the talk about the airport in Tulum? any idea when it will be ready? Where do you buy your groceries - do you go to Playa del Carmen to shop? We love this area of Mexico - and would like to live in Tulum - I will look at those sites and newspapers for sure - we have lived in Nicaragua for over a year and know what HOT is all about! we are looking for somewhere closer to Canada and a bit cooler Do you go to Tulum? From what we read the food there is delicious, it is dog friendly and they encourage people riding bicycles. We want to live where we can meet people, walk to bars and restaurants (or ride bikes) and operate a B&B we have a very successful B&B in Nicaragua and hope to carry our knowledge to Mexico


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## vantexan

citlali said:


> Flores, Rio Dulce, Livingstone, Guatemala City, Antigua, Pana and back to the border I also went to some small towns I do not even remember the name of. Nothing to remember or going back for.
> 
> I speak fluent Spanish and was travelling with Mexican friends . Gas and transportation is more expensive than in Mexico so some things follows. The hotels we stayed in except in Antigua and Pana were way below the quality we found in Mexico for the same price.
> 
> We travelled by public transportation and public buses, the roads are not great to say the least .
> 
> You can travel cheaply but so can you in Mexico. As far as we were concerned the place is not the bargain it used to be.
> 
> You are telling me that where ever expats concentrate the prices are up?? I live in Mexico and have done so for 13 years and I have been to Guatemala, I am just telling you what I saw. I have no intrest in living there so I was not looking at the prices of the houses for sale or for rent.
> Actually the hotel in Antigua was good and had a good price as we ended up renting a room and ended up with a place that had two lofts and a large bedroom burnished with a traditional nice furnitue.. The place was a bargain.
> It seems that the high end places were more of a bargain than te cheap places that were not well kept and did not change towels, did not clean rooms everyday because "their clients did not want people to enter the rooms when they were not there " (Flores)
> 
> We stayed in every type of accomodation from rock bottom price to high end.
> 
> No Chiapas is not cheap because of Guatemala. It is chap because it is a poor state catering to mochila tourism and tours.
> I think San Cristobal has too many hotels so you can find many cheap posadas at a very good price even in the center.
> 
> Chiapas outside of San Cristobal is a different story, the state is very poor and has very little tourists going through so if you stay in a decent business hotel you can get a very nice room, clean with tv bathroom in one of the top hotel for 200 pesos. (Bochil) but then you have to have business there otherwise there is no reason to go there.
> 
> Got all of our brakes checked in that town for 100 pesos. The wheels were taken out, the brake pads were polished after the man looked all over town for new ones and returned without any.put the pads and wheels back.
> 
> Not a town I would recommend to anyone but cheap it is..


If you ever get back that way you should check out Quetzaltenango, or Xela(Shayla) as the locals call it. Guatemala's second largest city, high percentage of Mayan population, as about as close to San Cristobal as you'll find in altitude, climate, and atmosphere in Guatemala although certainly not as nice or touristic. Xela Pages has a good forum with a number of participants who live there. Personally I prefer Chiapas(from reading here and elsewhere), but ultimately I want an area that's very RV friendly, where one can camp in numerous locations safely and for free. Baja California meets my needs.


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## citlali

Sorry I forgot I have been to Xela as well,another place I would not live in.. If I had to live in Guatemala I probably would live in Antigua or near there but I am not interested in moving so Jalisco and Chiapas it is. 
Good luck for your search. Baja sounds like a great place. It looks beautiful and sounds perect for what you want to do.
Have fun exploring it.


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## Gorally08

ExPatPumpkin has it right. You may think from your internet searches that you have certain locations nailed down but you won't. Mexico is HUGELY DIVERSE in many ways. You have to live here for a while to really get it. Travel around and spend some serious time in each area. Make some good Mexican friends. Do not buy a home until your third year here. You need to "feel" the variables. Be patient with yourself. Learn as much Spanish as you can.

When you find you've distilled your experiences and really understand what works for you, then ask your Mexican friends to help you find a house to buy. That's how you find the best deals. It's a buyer's market now and will be for the foreseeable future.

All of this will be fun and an adventure for you!

We live in the Zihuatanejo area. That's how we did it and we don't plan on returning to the US. 

BY the way, you didn't mention what you're planning to do with your US house. You may want to consider selling it soon.

GOOD LUCK! Please keep us posted on your adventures.


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## Tucson

Judy786 said:


> Tucsan how did you pick Puerto Adventuras? are you going to retire there? what is the talk about the airport in Tulum? any idea when it will be ready? Where do you buy your groceries - do you go to Playa del Carmen to shop? We love this area of Mexico - and would like to live in Tulum - I will look at those sites and newspapers for sure - we have lived in Nicaragua for over a year and know what HOT is all about! we are looking for somewhere closer to Canada and a bit cooler Do you go to Tulum? From what we read the food there is delicious, it is dog friendly and they encourage people riding bicycles. We want to live where we can meet people, walk to bars and restaurants (or ride bikes) and operate a B&B we have a very successful B&B in Nicaragua and hope to carry our knowledge to Mexico


Hola Judy, My husband and I had traveled around in Mexico a bit and wanted something different from our California life experiences. There are so many great places to live in Mexico but, for us, it was the strong draw of the Caribbean's warm waters and the lifestyle. We looked at several options in Quintana Roo and chose Puerto Aventuras because it gave us what we wanted. We actually like the mangrove jungles and the flatness of the Yucatan peninsula terrain, all very different from much of Mexico. The Mayan culture is special; the people are warm, friendly, and go out of their way to be kind and helpful. 

Getting around: We don't have a car in Mexico and wanted a place where we could rely (like the locals do) on public transportation. Between the Colectivo system, ADO buses, and taxis, we get everywhere we want to go and do all the things we want to do. In our community, a lot of the traffic is golf cart traffic and is really more the norm than the exception.

Quality of life: Our community is pretty much self-contained with shopping, restaurants, a wide range of housing, a huge marina, many activities, an active ex pat population who enjoy giving back to the local community as much as being part of it, the range of services (medical, dental, etc.), library and public school and naval facility all within our community, well maintained public spaces, a farmers market twice a week, dolphin pools, manatee pools, recreational activities, etc. When we are there, we are normally very happy to walk easily 10 miles inside our community and have a variety of walks to go on. And there is also a wonderful sandy caleta with a Mayan ruin (near a cenote) with snorkeling and water the color you only see in commercials. Also, it is a gated and planned community; that does cut down on excess traffic on the streets and the security is welcome. After 9 years, we still feel very safe to walk late at night anywhere in our community. 

Shopping: For most things, we go to the Super Chedraui just about a mile (door-to-door) up the road from our place. I have a grocery cart and it works out fine. There is a great sidewalk and it is well planned for pedestrian activity. There's a little shopping center inside the mall (if you could call it that) with some very good food court choices, as well as services of many kinds. Our local farmers market has very fresh veggies and fruits and usually some vendor has a booth set up with bakery, dips, or breads they made locally. Inside the community, we have many stores for small trips: there's an OXXO convenience store, a few gourmet shops with great wines and foods, etc. For bigger shopping trips, we take the Colectivo to Sams Club (up the 307 towards Playa del Carmen) and stock up in bulk. Then, we take a taxi from the parking lot home. Other times, our trips take us to Playa del Carmen and we shop at Mega (they will grind any meat choices for you that you ask for, just motion to the case and ask for "molido") and we have a few other specialty places we like to shop at, too. Colectivo is fine for coming and going anywhere in Playa del Carmen.

Airport in Tulum: In all honesty, the Tulum airport is most unlikely in the near future (or distant, unfortunately). However, the high speed train is a near-certain reality. The final land procurement and tweaking of the route are progressing nicely. It will connect Merida to many points down to Tulum. 

Weather and so forth: Yes, we go to Tulum from time to time. The Colectivo, of course, is our way to travel (low cost and so very convenient). Tulum is beautiful and the water is that fantastic shade of blue-green. Our least favorite time of year is the summer. It does get hot and humid and the air conditioner bills can get pretty high for year-round residents. However, the sea is right there and invites everyone to jump in and cool off. I grew up in the Midwest and don't feel it any worse than Wisconsin or Illinois in the summer. If you live on the sea, you can open your windows and doors for the cooling breezes, even in the summer.

This is beginning to resemble a small novel and with that, I will draw to a close. You did ask if we will retire there and the answer is yes and no. We travel a lot (in both Europe and the USA) and like living in the desert here in Arizona, too, so we won't probably sink both feet in the earth in any one place for too long in the near future. If you want any more specific information, you can always PM me.

Happy house hunting!


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## louixo

*The ongoing debate*

The topic of where to settle, where to live, what is the best place, has been ping ponged around for years, and is still being debated. The best place is where it appeals to you. Everyone has a different opinion on where is the best place, and many expats will try to convince you that where they live is the best, be it Mexico, Central America, or wherever. Some old expat hands advise you to live somewhere for awhile before making a decision to buy. That's good advice if you don't know what you want, but it's bad advice if you price yourself out of the market while waiting. Most expats are at, or closing in on retirement, and in that bracket should pretty much know what they want. You can be a permanent renter, or you can buy, and if you do, you can always sell. I know that selling is not always easy, but that happens in the developed world too. 
For me, the key was not to waste anymore time thinking about it. We came to a place we had visited on vacation, which was Cancun, Mexico. That was over 20 years ago, and we're still here with no plans of going back to the USA where we came from. We have moved since being here, a couple of times, just like we did in the states. New neighborhoods open up and have something you want, so you move, just like we did where we came from during our career days. The grass always looks greener, as they say, and if you think it is then go there, whether it's near or far. My advice is don't listen to those who are exhorting you to come and join them where they live. Listen to yourself, and don't saddle yourself with indecision. You can always leave.


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## kcowan

Right! Every major decision can be followed by another major decision. There is no move that is irreversible. I amazes me how so many people agonize about a decision about where to live. Sure it is a big decision and no amount of study can prove it.

We bought after renting for 23 years in many different neighbourhoods. Did we nail it? Yes in many way we got what we wanted. But now, after living here for 6 years, we recognize some new trade-offs that we had made that were less than ideal.

Sadly, achieving those new desires seems to be beyond reach.


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## louixo

I remember what we were looking for when we went off to be expats. We wanted a warm climate and a beach community. We wanted to be able to get to a well served international airport easily, as we like to travel, and we also knew we would be going home now and again. Weddings, births, funerals, graduations etc. We wanted to be in a decent sized place with stores for our daily necessities. We wanted entertainment, restaurants, movies, and things to do. We also wanted to live in an area with like minded people, and have a nice social life. The social life was slow going, as I had to learn spanish, and when I did, it opened up a world I never knew was there. Like any place there are things we love, and things we would change. It was the same in the USA. No place is perfect, but the lifestyle we live now, this is home. We actually have more to do here in a smaller area than anyplace we lived in the USA. There is a shangi-la out there for everyone. Moving, if necessary, is part of the adventure.


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## Jolga

If you are considering The Mayan Riviera it is, I'm sure, a great place to live year-round, we spent 3 weeks there a couple of years ago and loved it.

There is, however, one deal-breaker caveat in the area, and this includes Cabo as well. They are both in the red hurricane zones. This means that every fall you will be checking the weather sites for 3 months praying that the seemingly endless procession of hurricanes veers away from your house or condo. 


That being said, we chose Mazatlan because because it is on the ocean which was a must, has one of the longest Malacons in the world, and is in a yellow hurricane zone. It's been almost 2 years now and we have not used our electric storm shutters once. (hmmmm) I better test them. So far so good. The last one to hit Maz was Olivia, a cat 3 in 1943.

For us this was a reasonable, acceptable risk to live in paradise. The red zones.... not so much.

It all depends on your risk tolerance.


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## andi_correa

Jolga - 

Thank you for mentioning hurricane season. In all my prep work, that never crossed my mind, duh! I'm looking into relocating to Mexico sometime in the next couple of months and now I'll ad that to my consideration. 

Thanks!
~andi~


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## sparks

Hurricane season is not just the fall it's June 1st through November 30th and affects both coasts of Mexico. Last year the Eastern Pacific had way more hurricanes than the Atlantic


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## andi_correa

Sparks - 

You are correct, thank you. Hurricane season is June through November. While it may affect both coasts it definitely doesn't affect all of Mexico. I have yet to hear of a hurricane hitting Ensenada, my original selection, which is why I never thought of it. 

~andi~


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## mxfan

VVChuck said:


> ...We getting overwhelmed and confused - ...
> We want to be one of you...


Sounds like you already are like many of us. hahaha.

My only advice is you need to see and experience for yourself. Don't rush things. I am certain there are people who will say Cleveland is a great place to live. No???


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## TundraGreen

mxfan said:


> Sounds like you already are like many of us. hahaha.
> 
> My only advice is you need to see and experience for yourself. Don't rush things. I am certain there are people who will say Cleveland is a great place to live. No???


You responded to a message that was posted in 2010. The Original Poster posted a few messages in 2010-11 and has not been heard from again since. He is probably not going to see your reply.


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