# hopeing to move out but!!



## deaks (Jan 25, 2014)

Hi.. We are hoping to move out to the costa del sol in September 2014 but I am hearing bad things about Spain for xpats ie taxes on pensions and savings, and not being able to use my uk registered car after 183 days even if it has 1 years mot/tax without going through the very expensive process of re-registering it there( joke)... .We thought we would give it a year 18 months to see if we wanted to stay there , Then possibly become a resident, but now the Spanish seem to be making it hard for anybody wanting to try and make a better life for themselves after working all there life in the uk. Is anything being done about these issues ? ... It would appear that Portugal will be seeing a influx of Brit very soon!.. Can anybody tell me are there any ways around these obstacles in particular the car situation.... are the local police enforcing these laws.... We are not sure on what area fore sure yet either Mojacar nerja or la Duquesa any feedback would be very helpful........

Thanks......:confused2:


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

deaks said:


> Hi.. We are hoping to move out to the costa del sol in September 2014 but I am hearing bad things about Spain for xpats ie taxes on pensions and savings, and not being able to use my uk registered car after 183 days even if it has 1 years mot/tax without going through the very expensive process of re-registering it there( joke)... .We thought we would give it a year 18 months to see if we wanted to stay there , Then possibly become a resident, but now the Spanish seem to be making it hard for anybody wanting to try and make a better life for themselves after working all there life in the uk. Is anything being done about these issues ? ... It would appear that Portugal will be seeing a influx of Brit very soon!.. Can anybody tell me are there any ways around these obstacles in particular the car situation.... are the local police enforcing these laws.... We are not sure on what area fore sure yet either Mojacar nerja or la Duquesa any feedback would be very helpful........
> 
> Thanks......:confused2:


:welcome:

& no it isn't easy to move here now

at/before 90 days you have to register as resident - you have to prove that you have sufficient income to support yourselves (about 625€ per person per month &/or 6000€ pp in a Spanish bank ) & healthcare provision


it is illegal for a resident of Spain to drive a foreign plated car - so you would have to get any car from the UK changed to Spanish plates 

there's a tax treaty so that you wouldn't pay the same tax twice - but allowances for some taxes are lower here, so you might end up paying more tax if/when you are tax resident

you will be tax resident if you are here 183+ days in a calendar year Jan 1st to Dec 31st - & you would have to declare all worldwide income & assets - just like Spanish nationals do

there's no legal way around any of it


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## oronero (Aug 24, 2012)

deaks said:


> Hi.. We are hoping to move out to the costa del sol in September 2014 but I am hearing bad things about Spain for xpats ie taxes on pensions and savings, and not being able to use my uk registered car after 183 days even if it has 1 years mot/tax without going through the very expensive process of re-registering it there( joke)... .We thought we would give it a year 18 months to see if we wanted to stay there , Then possibly become a resident, but now the Spanish seem to be making it hard for anybody wanting to try and make a better life for themselves after working all there life in the uk. Is anything being done about these issues ? ... It would appear that Portugal will be seeing a influx of Brit very soon!.. Can anybody tell me are there any ways around these obstacles in particular the car situation.... are the local police enforcing these laws.... We are not sure on what area fore sure yet either Mojacar nerja or la Duquesa any feedback would be very helpful........
> 
> Thanks......:confused2:


...and can you imagine what some of the UK 'gutter press' would write if a foreign national, who was hoping to migrate to the UK, was to write the above?

Portuguese rules for migrants is very similar to the Spanish rules, in fact much of it is EU rules and the UK do similar for foreigners wishing to locate there also...don't believe everything you read in the UK 'press'!


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## Madliz (Feb 4, 2011)

The car regulations are not a new thing. I believe the rules have been the same for many years. Just as immigrants to the UK have to obey their rules, so immigrants to Spain should obey theirs. If people haven't abided by the rules, in either country, they have taken a risk, and it doesn't always pay off. What is happening now is that the authorities are cracking down more, so the need to obey is more urgent!


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

H


> i.. We are hoping to move out to the costa del sol in September 2014 but I am hearing bad things about Spain for xpats ie taxes on pensions and savings, and .
> 
> What is the relevance of this in Spain? these are the rules in SPain
> 
> ...


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## Lolito (Aug 25, 2012)

deaks said:


> but now the Spanish seem to be making it hard for anybody wanting to try and make a better life for themselves after working all there life in the uk. ....:confused2:



I stopped reading there. You working very very very hard, all your life in the UK, have nothing to do with Spain.


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## thrax (Nov 13, 2008)

Many expats will know of or have heard of people who flaunt the system. I know of (and have met) a couple of Brits who have lived here for 12 years. They drive a UK registered vehicle with no road tax and therefore no MOT or insurance. They have not registered as resident nor on the Padron nor, of course, do they pay tax. They work on the black market. 12 years. Amazing. When I asked them are they worried about being caught they had absolutely no idea what I was talking about - genuinely. I am sure there remain many folk like them who arrived when it was very easy to exist 'off the radar' and they clearly believe it still to be the case. It isn't and frankly I am astonished they haven't been caught. But, they live in the campo, shop in the campo and do more or less everything in the campo and here, in the campo, the chances of seeing the Guardia Civil or the traffic cops or even the local cops is about the same as getting a fleeting glimpse of a Yeti. But they have been incredibly lucky. One day they will be caught and their car will be impounded and they will be heavily fined. Message?? Don't even think about it.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

deaks said:


> Can anybody tell me are there any ways around these obstacles in particular the car situation.... are the local police enforcing these laws.... We are not sure on what area fore sure yet either Mojacar nerja or la Duquesa any feedback would be very helpful........
> 
> Thanks......:confused2:


The guardia are very hot on catching illegal cars right now, lots of checks and road blocks, certainly in the Nerja area - they need the money!!!

I would suggest you sell your UK car and buy a run around in Spain. If things dont work out, then sell your Spanish run around and buy a car in the UK!!! In the end, I'm sure thats what you'd expect of a Spanish person moving to the UK. Rules is rules and all countries have them and they all have to be respected. Spain isnt a british colony. 

Apart from that, maybe do some fact finding trips and have a good look around, see how you feel and whether its going to be something you can make work. To choose an area, its always a gtood idea to write a list of your wants and needs ie, near to airport, hospital, beach, countryside, in a town, public transport........ That should help to narrow it down

Jo xxx


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## tarot650 (Sep 30, 2007)

deaks said:


> Hi.. We are hoping to move out to the costa del sol in September 2014 but I am hearing bad things about Spain for xpats ie taxes on pensions and savings, and not being able to use my uk registered car after 183 days even if it has 1 years mot/tax without going through the very expensive process of re-registering it there( joke)... .We thought we would give it a year 18 months to see if we wanted to stay there , Then possibly become a resident, but now the Spanish seem to be making it hard for anybody wanting to try and make a better life for themselves after working all there life in the uk. Is anything being done about these issues ? ... It would appear that Portugal will be seeing a influx of Brit very soon!.. Can anybody tell me are there any ways around these obstacles in particular the car situation.... are the local police enforcing these laws.... We are not sure on what area fore sure yet either Mojacar nerja or la Duquesa any feedback would be very helpful........
> 
> Thanks......:confused2:


Joke,no it's the law.Full stop.End of.By all means come over with your UK plated car but when you get stopped for it being illegal I don't think you would get much sympathy off members of this forum.Yes at one time people were getting away with it as there was literally hundreds of cars and vans on the coast but over the years that has declined rapidly and they now stand out like a sore thumb and speed checks are now getting more of a regular thing,At one time we could drive down to the coast one of two ways and never see an unmarked car with radar in..Now it's a regular occurance and they seem to be targeting junctions where the speed drops to 80 and then 60.Personally I would not want the hassle of looking over my shoulder all the time.you would not do it the uk spain is no different


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## deaks (Jan 25, 2014)

jojo said:


> The guardia are very hot on catching illegal cars right now, lots of checks and road blocks, certainly in the Nerja area - they need the money!!!
> 
> I would suggest you sell your UK car and buy a run around in Spain. If things dont work out, then sell your Spanish run around and buy a car in the UK!!! In the end, I'm sure thats what you'd expect of a Spanish person moving to the UK. Rules is rules and all countries have them and they all have to be respected. Spain isnt a british colony.
> 
> ...


Hi Jo.... I hear what you and a few others are saying about the car I am not wanting to break any laws, from what I understand I would be allowed 6 months on uk plates only,I presume I would have to prove to the police when I arrived?(would the ferry ticket be sufficient ? a few people replied to me on this subject( I hope I haven't offended anybody) as I respect the law no matter what country I have been to, I used to work in Spain and Portugal around 10 years ago and had no problem with the police driving my own car over the 4 years I was there I was just wondering what had brought on the change. We are visiting at the end of February to make a decision as to what area, as you said we had done the lists previously ...

Regards... and thanks Deaks


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

deaks said:


> Hi Jo.... I hear what you and a few others are saying about the car I am not wanting to break any laws, from what I understand I would be allowed 6 months on uk plates only,I presume I would have to prove to the police when I arrived?(would the ferry ticket be sufficient ? a few people replied to me on this subject( I hope I haven't offended anybody) as I respect the law no matter what country I have been to, I used to work in Spain and Portugal around 10 years ago and had no problem with the police driving my own car over the 4 years I was there I was just wondering what had brought on the change. We are visiting at the end of February to make a decision as to what area, as you said we had done the lists previously ...
> 
> Regards... and thanks Deaks


things have changed tremendously in 10 years - we've lived here 10 years now & it's almost a different country 

I suspect that what has brought on the change - & it's not a change in the law - they're just enforcing it more - is that there were just so very many illegal cars here

about the 6 months.... yes - a ferry ticket would be fine - but bear in mind that if you'd been here more than 3 months/90 days they would expect you to have registered as resident & want to see the proof of that - & if you are registered they would expect you to have at least started the matriculation process....


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## deaks (Jan 25, 2014)

I meant to say, that I worked out there for 4 years, but every year I returned to the UK for MOT and road tax purposes - just thought I should add this in case anyone thought I was flouting the law.

Deaks


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

deaks said:


> I meant to say, that I worked out there for 4 years, but every year I returned to the UK for MOT and road tax purposes - just thought I should add this in case anyone thought I was flouting the law.
> 
> Deaks


ermmmm........... you were....


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## tarot650 (Sep 30, 2007)

deaks said:


> Hi Jo.... I hear what you and a few others are saying about the car I am not wanting to break any laws, from what I understand I would be allowed 6 months on uk plates only,I presume I would have to prove to the police when I arrived?(would the ferry ticket be sufficient ? a few people replied to me on this subject( I hope I haven't offended anybody) as I respect the law no matter what country I have been to, I used to work in Spain and Portugal around 10 years ago and had no problem with the police driving my own car over the 4 years I was there I was just wondering what had brought on the change. We are visiting at the end of February to make a decision as to what area, as you said we had done the lists previously ...
> 
> Regards... and thanks Deaks


10years ago was a completely different ball game to today..If you havn't been here for 10years you are in for one or two shocks.They need their money more today than they did 10years ago and as anybody knows who has been stopped by the Guardia Civil there is no argueing with them.Yes,10years ago you could get away with a lot more then what you can today and rightly so.The days of coming here and living on a wing and a prayer are gone.


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

deaks said:


> I meant to say, that I worked out there for 4 years, but every year I returned to the UK for MOT and road tax purposes - just thought I should add this in case anyone thought I was flouting the law.
> 
> Deaks


.... unfortunately, you were! but things were a lot more lax back then as Xabia said.

After 90 days in Spain, you are considered resident and only have a further 90 days to complete the changing of plates - irrespective of whether you have a valid MOT and tax or not.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

snikpoh said:


> .... unfortunately, you were! but things were a lot more lax back then as Xabia said.
> 
> After 90 days in Spain, you are considered resident and only have a further 90 days to complete the changing of plates - irrespective of whether you have a valid MOT and tax or not.


& even 10 years ago that was the case more or less


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## deaks (Jan 25, 2014)

Thanks for that Jo, just as we thought .....


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

deaks said:


> Thanks for that Jo, just as we thought .....


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

deaks said:


> Hi Jo.... I hear what you and a few others are saying about the car I am not wanting to break any laws, from what I understand I would be allowed 6 months on uk plates only,I presume I would have to prove to the police when I arrived?(would the ferry ticket be sufficient ? a few people replied to me on this subject( I hope I haven't offended anybody) as I respect the law no matter what country I have been to, I used to work in Spain and Portugal around 10 years ago and had no problem with the police driving my own car over the 4 years I was there I was just wondering what had brought on the change. We are visiting at the end of February to make a decision as to what area, as you said we had done the lists previously ...
> 
> Regards... and thanks Deaks



Things have changed since you were last in Spain. As far as I know, this car thing was always the law, but the Spanish turned a blind eye - however, since they joined the EU and of course the recession, they've toughened up no end. The guardia are now apparently expected to make money and what better way than to target illegal cars - apparently its known locally as "tourist tax"!!!!

I know that they do stop cars and check to see how long the driver (and passengers) have been in Spain cos friends of mine (who had just arrived in their British 4x4) were actually stopped with me in their car. They had to show their ferry tickets, passports, insurance etc and even I as a passenger had to show them my ID and tell them my parents names ?????!!

See how you find things in February - I'll bet you notice the changes!!

Jo xxx


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## extranjero (Nov 16, 2012)

Research the tax situation thoroughly, especially inheritance tax, the implications of which have caused some to move back due to a potentially huge bill.
You will be taxed on your world wide income, from all sources, pensions(except government ones), savings interest, lump sums , pension pots, premium bond winnings, Isas, inheritances-things that might be tax free in UK are not here.
Research the new Assets reporting law- there is no hiding place!

By the way, diid you pay income tax in those 4 years while living in Spain?

Don't know your age, but if not State pensioners, health cover will be a major concern.
Like many others, I am fed up with ex pats living here under the radar. Two such people live near me, been here 12 years, never signed on the foreigner's register( aka residency), therefore not on Spanish healthcare or tax system;they nip back, as required, for NHS care and prescriptions. Where do people get the idea they can choose whether to pay tax or be resident here? It's not a choice- its the law!
Cars- for 12 years a builder has been running his business here using all kinds of UK vehicles which can't be re registered here. He's been reported- nothing happens. There are plenty of other offenders, too.

Look at sites such as UK in Spain, Blevins Franks. No excuse for ignorance now; if any thing there's too much info, often conflicting!
The rules change so quickly here that books are out of date when they go to press.
Quite honestly, is it worth all the hassle? Enjoy some nice holidays out here, free in the knowledge that you are out of the hands of the Spanish tax man! Unless you have an efficient financial advisor


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Of course it's worth the 'hassle'. What 'hassle'? Filling in a few forms? Didn't we all do that in the U.K.?
Many of us are quietly enjoying our lives here in Spain, some working, some retired.
Wherever you live you have to obey the rules and the laws. Simple. Wherever you decide to live abroad you must pay all local taxes. If you don't like that idea, it's best to stay home.
As I often point out to people who seem to expect life in Spain to be tailored to suit their needs, this is not a British colony. The Mediterranean is not one of the English lakes.
It's a beautiful country with lovely people and for me it's a privilege to live here.


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## lyndsey lancaster park (Jan 26, 2014)

mrypg9 said:


> Of course it's worth the 'hassle'. What 'hassle'? Filling in a few forms? Didn't we all do that in the U.K.? Many of us are quietly enjoying our lives here in Spain, some working, some retired. Wherever you live you have to obey the rules and the laws. Simple. Wherever you decide to live abroad you must pay all local taxes. If you don't like that idea, it's best to stay home. As I often point out to people who seem to expect life in Spain to be tailored to suit their needs, this is not a British colony. The Mediterranean is not one of the English lakes. It's a beautiful country with lovely people and for me it's a privilege to live here.


Me and my husband are also looking to move to spain once I have completed my 22 year service in the British military - beginning of 2016.
He will still be in the army 
After reading this thread would most recommend me getting a car in spain on my arrival and my husband keeping the uk one as he will only stay with me during his leave

And would my army pension be enough to be classed as enough money for residency 

Also what are the local taxes??


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

lyndsey lancaster park said:


> Me and my husband are also looking to move to spain once I have completed my 22 year service in the British military - beginning of 2016.
> He will still be in the army
> After reading this thread would most recommend me getting a car in spain on my arrival and my husband keeping the uk one as he will only stay with me during his leave
> 
> ...



:welcome:

yes for sure it would be better to buy a car here 

to register as resident they are currently asking for an income of about 625€ a month &/or 6000€ in a Spanish bank


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## lyndsey lancaster park (Jan 26, 2014)

xabiachica said:


> :welcome: yes for sure it would be better to buy a car here to register as resident they are currently asking for an income of about 625&#128; a month &/or 6000&#128; in a Spanish bank


So my army pension would class as enough that's great, 
As for jobs I understand that it is hard to get jobs at the moment. :-( 

I am assuming that the majority of the expats on here are retired


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

lyndsey lancaster park said:


> So my army pension would class as enough that's great,
> As for jobs I understand that it is hard to get jobs at the moment. :-(
> 
> *I am assuming that the majority of the expats on here are retired*


some, perhaps the majority - but certainly not all

we did a survey a few years ago - maybe it's time for another one!


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## lyndsey lancaster park (Jan 26, 2014)

xabiachica said:


> some, perhaps the majority - but certainly not all we did a survey a few years ago - maybe it's time for another one!


Oh that's good then, just felt that a lot of the posts are negative about making the move.

I totally understand people are just being truthful about the current situation. But people are still making the move.

I think this is a yes for us with renting for a year whilst looking for property  exciting times


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

lyndsey lancaster park said:


> So my army pension would class as enough that's great,
> As for jobs I understand that it is hard to get jobs at the moment. :-(
> 
> I am assuming that the majority of the expats on here are retired


I wouldn't say the majority are retired, but maybe us retired ones have more time to post on forums!

Nearly all the Brits I know in Spain are trying to earn a living, some more successfully than others. 

It is almost impossible to get a job at the moment unless you have specific skills that are in short supply (e.g. qualified English teachers) or work for a company with branches in Spain, who might be willing to give you a transfer.

There are plenty of opportunities for voluntary work though.


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## lyndsey lancaster park (Jan 26, 2014)

Alcalaina said:


> I wouldn't say the majority are retired, but maybe us retired ones have more time to post on forums! Nearly all the Brits I know in Spain are trying to earn a living, some more successfully than others. It is almost impossible to get a job at the moment unless you have specific skills that are in short supply (e.g. qualified English teachers) or work for a company with branches in Spain, who might be willing to give you a transfer. There are plenty of opportunities for voluntary work though.


I am a qualified teacher, but have been doing it for the past 10 years in the military and fancied a bit of a change but maybe it's better to stick to this for a few years

Something to think about then,


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

lyndsey lancaster park said:


> I am a qualified teacher, but have been doing it for the past 10 years in the military and fancied a bit of a change but maybe it's better to stick to this for a few years
> 
> Something to think about then,


Yep, worth getting a TEFL qualification if you haven't got one already.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

lyndsey lancaster park said:


> Oh that's good then, just felt that a lot of the posts are negative about making the move.
> 
> I totally understand people are just being truthful about the current situation. But people are still making the move.


Heck, I hate it when people say we're negative  - its not that we want to be, but things in Spain are quite negative at the moment. It would be lovely to say "yes, get over there - plenty of work, plenty of sun and no worries about healthcare, rules, regs, money......." I'd be out there if that was the case, not sitting here in cold and wet England 

So apologies for our comments - but they are made with the best intentions - we're not just being grumpy and we have to be honest!!!!!

Jo xxxxxx


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

lyndsey lancaster park said:


> Oh that's good then, just felt that a lot of the posts are negative about making the move.
> 
> I totally understand people are just being truthful about the current situation. But people are still making the move.
> 
> I think this is a yes for us with renting for a year whilst looking for property  exciting times


I've just posted a poll/survey to see what everyone is doing

http://www.expatforum.com/expats/spain-expat-forum-expats-living-spain/325089-spain-2014-census.html


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## lyndsey lancaster park (Jan 26, 2014)

jojo said:


> Heck, I hate it when people say we're negative  - its not that we want to be, but things in Spain are quite negative at the moment. It would be lovely to say "yes, get over there - plenty of work, plenty of sun and no worries about healthcare, rules, regs, money......." I'd be out there if that was the case, not sitting here in cold and wet England  So apologies for our comments - but they are made with the best intentions - we're not just being grumpy and we have to be honest!!!!! Jo xxxxxx


Which is what I wrote Jo Jo I understand that people are telling the truth about the situation.

But it's also hard to get a job in all countries 

And if you work hard and look at all the angles you can achieve your dreams of a new life


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

lyndsey lancaster park said:


> Which is what I wrote Jo Jo I understand that people are telling the truth about the situation.
> 
> But it's also hard to get a job in all countries
> 
> *And if you work hard and look at all the angles you can achieve your dreams of a new life *




No, not really. Most 'dreams' stay just that...dreams. Reality can be a nightmare.
The unemployment rate in the UK is around 7%. In Spain it's 26% nationally and in Malaga Province it's 34%. You can't compare the jobless rate in Spain with any other European country, not even Greece.
Working hard applies only if you can get work in the first place. The six million unemployed Spaniards are all 'looking at all the angles' and are prepared to work hard. They too are industrious and have ambitions but the crisis has hit Spain very hard indeed.
The few British immigrants I know who are employed are small business owners who speak fluent Spanish and have been here for decades. They are experiencing the effects of the crisis like nearly everyone else.
Even retired people on low fixed incomes are feeling the pinch. I work as a volunteer for a local animal refuge and we run a second-hand shop in our local town. We see desperately poor people on a daily basis.
Things are unlikely to change for many years if the forecasts are accurate.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

lyndsey lancaster park said:


> Which is what I wrote Jo Jo I understand that people are telling the truth about the situation.
> 
> But it's also hard to get a job in all countries
> 
> And if you work hard and look at all the angles you can achieve your dreams of a new life



Working hard is something you can do once you get a job. Its not easy to get jobs anywhere anymore, but, certainly in the UK, there are jobs and hard work enables you to keep them.

In Spain - well, the hard work is actually finding available jobs - I often turn the situation round and think "what do the majority of British think about foreigners who come to England and take *their* jobs?? - and in Britain, we're well protected by our very comprehensive social welfare system!!!

But - on a positive note , Have you looked at Jobs | Nabss Maybe send your CV in to a few schools on the off chance....

Jo xxx


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## lyndsey lancaster park (Jan 26, 2014)

jojo said:


> Working hard is something you can do once you get a job. Its not easy to get jobs anywhere anymore, but, certainly in the UK, there are jobs and hard work enables you to keep them. In Spain - well, the hard work is actually finding available jobs - I often turn the situation round and think "what do the majority of British think about foreigners who come to England and take their jobs?? - and in Britain, we're well protected by our very comprehensive social welfare system!!! But - on a positive note , Have you looked at Jobs | Nabss Maybe send your CV in to a few schools on the off chance.... Jo xxx


Yeah I've looked at a few site and even requested info on a few one I could have started straight away, 
But As I mentioned earlier I'm still in the army at the moment just waiting for my so called retirement lol

But I think me and my husband have made the first step ie the decision yeah 

And I'm going to use the next year or so to get more qualifications to open my employability up you never know
Got to stay positive


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## zenkarma (Feb 15, 2013)

mrypg9 said:


> No, not really.


Yes, really. Smiley or no smiley.

If someone is prepared to work hard and be innovative in their thinking—dreams can be fulfilled. There are so many opportunities out there, high unemployment or not people just have to be innovative, think laterally and spot market gaps and opportunities.

The problem is most people want the easy, lazy route to success. They want to move to a better way of life in the sun and do as little as possible to achieve it. You see it on here every day—"I want to move to Spain and open a bar/café/restaurant..." Lazy dull-minded and archaic thinking. That may have worked 20 years ago—it sure as hell won't work now in a downturned market full of similar businesses already struggling to survive.


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## lyndsey lancaster park (Jan 26, 2014)

zenkarma said:


> Yes, really. Smiley or no smiley. If someone is prepared to work hard and be innovative in their thinkingdreams can be fulfilled. There are so many opportunities out there, high unemployment or not people just have to be innovative, think laterally and spot market gaps and opportunities. The problem is most people want the easy, lazy route to success. They want to move to a better way of life in the sun and do as little as possible to achieve it. You see it on here every day"I want to move to Spain and open a bar/café/restaurant..." Lazy dull-minded and archaic thinking. That may have worked 20 years agoit sure as hell won't work now in a downturned market full of similar businesses already struggling to survive.


I agree, after doing 22 years in the armed forces I'm not scared of hard work, and to be honest I will get bored NOT doing anything.

So I've decided to stay positive get as many qualifications as possible and save loads and try and make a better life for my self and my husband out in spain.

We are visiting malaga area in July this year to drive around and look at the area, then we are going to alicante area in December time to do the same thing.

If the current unemployment is as bad as some of you are saying then the main task for us is to find the area we like, then the employment will come later as we will both have military pensions to start with and a good lump of savings.

If anyone can give me a little info on the two areas it would be appreciated 

Thanks


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

lyndsey lancaster park said:


> I agree, after doing 22 years in the armed forces I'm not scared of hard work, and to be honest I will get bored NOT doing anything.
> 
> So I've decided to stay positive get as many qualifications as possible and save loads and try and make a better life for my self and my husband out in spain.
> 
> ...



it isn't just what we're saying - they are official figures

unemployment has dropped a little - overall it stands now at 26.03% - just under 6 million unemployed La tasa de paro en España alcanza el 26,03%

so it's great that you won't be relying on finding employment


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

zenkarma said:


> Yes, really. Smiley or no smiley.
> 
> If someone is prepared to work hard and be innovative in their thinking—dreams can be fulfilled. There are so many opportunities out there, high unemployment or not people just have to be innovative, think laterally and spot market gaps and opportunities.
> 
> The problem is most people want the easy, lazy route to success. They want to move to a better way of life in the sun and do as little as possible to achieve it. You see it on here every day—"I want to move to Spain and open a bar/café/restaurant..." Lazy dull-minded and archaic thinking. That may have worked 20 years ago—it sure as hell won't work now in a downturned market full of similar businesses already struggling to survive.


Don't agree at all. Hard work may give you a better chance of keeping a job once you've found one, but it is no guarantee of fullfilling one's dreams. IMO the archaic thinking is the belief that hard work will get you where you want and/ or deserve to be. It just doesn't work like that any more in 2014 in Spain. It may help like I said, but that on its own is not enough.

I've been looking for mrypg9's recent post about realism not negativity. If anybody can find it and repost it here...


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

zenkarma said:


> Yes, really. Smiley or no smiley.
> 
> If someone is prepared to work hard and be innovative in their thinking—dreams can be fulfilled. There are so many opportunities out there, high unemployment or not people just have to be innovative, think laterally and spot market gaps and opportunities.
> 
> The problem is most people want the easy, lazy route to success. They want to move to a better way of life in the sun and do as little as possible to achieve it. You see it on here every day—"I want to move to Spain and open a bar/café/restaurant..." Lazy dull-minded and archaic thinking. That may have worked 20 years ago—it sure as hell won't work now in a downturned market full of similar businesses already struggling to survive.


Untrue. Are you saying that the millions of unemployed are lazy and lacking in talent and ambition? Of course they're not.
Being brutal about it..what do people who don't live in Spain and whose experience is limited to holidays know about the facts on the ground?
On what do you base your evidence that 'most people want the easy way to success'?
The OP will be looking for teaching posts...like thousands of others, many on this site. Some will find work, most won't. Those that do find work will do so because of luck and who they know.
The facts are simple: economy in crisis means mass unemployment means less spending power means fewer opportunities for new businesses and tough times for existing ones.
Of course a few lucky immigrants will find jobs. But no-one should fool themselves into thinking that's because they will work harder or have some special quality that will enable success.
The immigrant economy doesn't exist in a bubble apart from the indigenous.
Interestingly, we hear from the few who strike lucky. Most would-be immigrant job seekers vanish into obscurity.
All this can be seen as sad, negative, however you want to see it. But it's true.
When was the last time you tried to find work or set up a business in Spain?
Although I haven't done either myself I know many people who have tried and are trying...in vain.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Don't agree at all. Hard work may give you a better chance of keeping a job once you've found one, but it is no guarantee of fullfilling one's dreams. IMO the archaic thinking is the belief that hard work will get you where you want and/ or deserve to be. It just doesn't work like that any more in 2014 in Spain. It may help like I said, but that on its own is not enough.
> 
> I've been looking for mrypg9's recent post about realism not negativity. If anybody can find it and repost it here...


The one about the guy and the castrated dog? It's on the opening a cafe thread.


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## zenkarma (Feb 15, 2013)

mrypg9 said:


> Are you saying that the millions of unemployed are lazy and lacking in talent and ambition?


I'm saying they either lack the necessary skills or are unwilling to retrain to the necessary skills to compete in a changing and competitive workforce.

What's the point in training to be a journalist when there are already thousands of trained journalists out of work? Why are you then surprised that the newly qualified journalist struggles to find a job?

People either train or retrain in the in-demand professions or they become unemployed and unemployable. It's as simple as that. I'm not saying it's right I'm saying that's the way it is and will continue to be as globalisation continues to destroy the European job market.

You can say untrue or disagree as much as you like—it doesn't change reality.

I don't like it any more than you do but I'm pragmatic enough to accept and understand how the job market is changing.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

zenkarma said:


> I'm saying they either lack the necessary skills or are unwilling to retrain to the necessary skills to compete in a changing and competitive workforce.
> 
> What's the point in training to be a journalist when there are already thousands of trained journalists out of work? Why are you then surprised that the newly qualified journalist struggles to find a job?
> 
> ...


Retraining doesnt pay the bills! 

I do know that in my area of the UK there are quite a few Spanish people here for work - reluctantly (leaving their families in Spain) because they cant get work in Spain - so that seems to be an option???? and that speaks volumes to me!

Jo xxx


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

zenkarma said:


> I'm saying they either lack the necessary skills or are unwilling to retrain to the necessary skills to compete in a changing and competitive workforce.
> 
> You can say untrue or disagree as much as you like—it doesn't change reality.
> 
> I don't like it any more than you do but I'm pragmatic enough to accept and understand how the job market is changing.


Well actually what you said was


> If someone is prepared to *work hard* and be innovative in their thinking—*dreams can be fulfilled*. There are so many opportunities out there, high unemployment or not people just have to be innovative, think laterally and spot market gaps and opportunities.


And that's what I and I believe mrypg9, disagree with.
There are opportunities out there and some will be lucky enough to have enough money/ time to invest in them, will be at the right place at the right time, will get the licences approved and will have enough Spanish to see them through. Others will not. And many others who are already here, Spanish or otherwise will be willing to work as hard as is humanly possible and will get nowhere and that's being pragmatic as far as I can see!


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

zenkarma said:


> I'm saying they either lack the necessary skills or are unwilling to retrain to the necessary skills to compete in a changing and competitive workforce.
> 
> What's the point in training to be a journalist when there are already thousands of trained journalists out of work? Why are you then surprised that the newly qualified journalist struggles to find a job?
> 
> ...


Are you saying retraining will get you a job? Of course sensible people will retrain. But it's not as easy as you make out. The shortages may be in professions which require more than a six months TOPS type course. If you lack the necessary educational 'platform' to start with, you may not be suited for all types of retraining. 
All the retraining in the world merely takes you off the dole queue for a while. Cynics might say that we send 50% of our young people to higher education to keep them off the dole queue.
And none of what you say applies to non Spanish-speaking British immigrants seeking jobs in Spain, does it...
FACT: there are very few jobs for Spaniards,let alone for British immigrants.
When you've settled in Spain and got to know the situation first-hand you may get a different view of things. PW, Xabia and those who actually live and work here know better than I as my experience is via others.
They are realistic. They walk the walk.
Your comment about the need for retraining is perfectly sound. I agree with you. But it has very little relevance to immigrants seeking jobs in Spain.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Reproduced from a post by mrypg9 and hoping that she doesn't mind...
This not aimed at anyone in particular, but is for all new posters who might be surprised by the information they are receiving, and is posted in the hope that a better understanding can be achieved 


> Frankly, it upsets me when we are accused of negativity for simply telling people some of whom are not residents but holiday visitors what we experience on a daily basis. It is also a tad insulting and patronising to the six million unemployed to tell us that all that is needed is grit and determination and lo and behold: a job will materialise. Do they lack optimism, grit and determination? To insinuate that, however unintentionally, is adding insult to injury and could be construed as arrogant in that you are in possession of 'superior' qualities.
> 
> I suppose it's possible that people in the UK are unaware that Spain has an unemployment rate almost four times of that in the UK...or that in some areas more than one in three adults and more than 50% of young people are unemployed...that people are being evicted on a daily basis all over Spain and that there are many cases of suicides through homelessness. I guess some British immigrants who don't have many dealings with the Spanish community are unaware of the misery and hopelessness that exists not far from their 'dream life'.
> 
> A couple of weeks ago an unemployed man came with his dog to our perrera asking if we could castrate it as it was lively and neighbours had complained to the police who had told him the dog would be destroyed if he didn't have it castrated. He had been without work for five years and could not afford the 190 euros fee asked for by local vets. When we told him we couldn't do that as our vet couldn't do commercial work he sobbed. His dog is his only companion.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Reproduced from a post by mrypg9 and hoping that she doesn't mind...
> This not aimed at anyone in particular, but is for all new posters who might be surprised by the information they are receiving, and is posted in the hope that a better understanding can be achieved


I rarely mind anything, especially in anything you post...


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