# relocation



## lovestravel (Apr 9, 2012)

We just arrived from UK and got very used to walking everywhere so that is one of our top criteria for living. Like I said, we are going next week to check out denver. We are specifically interested in Lodo. It seems to fit what we want. Our daughter will have her car but we want to try to avoid buying one ourselves. My husbands job usually only involves working from home and travel to the airport in which he will take a taxi. There appear to be plenty of buses that run throughout the city for daily errands when we don't feel like walking. Grocers are within blocks up to two miles to whole foods from there. Daughter will attend university downtown. We will rent a car if we plan to travel out of town for the weekend. We also wanted access to plenty of outdoor activities such as hiking and winter sports without the harsh winters such as Minneapolis (which we are very familiar). We are both city dwellers so convenient access to restaurants, pharmacy, coffee shops, entertainment right out the door are essential. We also considered Portland Oregon but are trying to avoid the rainy climate there.
I will post a report of denver from our perspective once we arrive.


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## matthewh133 (Nov 27, 2014)

lovestravel said:


> We just arrived from UK and got very used to walking everywhere so that is one of our top criteria for living. Like I said, we are going next week to check out denver. We are specifically interested in Lodo. It seems to fit what we want. Our daughter will have her car but we want to try to avoid buying one ourselves. My husbands job usually only involves working from home and travel to the airport in which he will take a taxi. There appear to be plenty of buses that run throughout the city for daily errands when we don't feel like walking. Grocers are within blocks up to two miles to whole foods from there. Daughter will attend university downtown. We will rent a car if we plan to travel out of town for the weekend. We also wanted access to plenty of outdoor activities such as hiking and winter sports without the harsh winters such as Minneapolis (which we are very familiar). We are both city dwellers so convenient access to restaurants, pharmacy, coffee shops, entertainment right out the door are essential. We also considered Portland Oregon but are trying to avoid the rainy climate there.
> I will post a report of denver from our perspective once we arrive.


That would be great, thanks and good luck


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## BBCWatcher (Dec 28, 2012)

Denver is quite lovely in many ways, but it also on average experiences about double the annual snowfall of the U.S. average. Walking and biking in snow can range from annoying to impossible. Denver is also the "mile high city," so each breath delivers somewhat less oxygen to your red blood cells than you would experience at or nearer sea level. If your goal is to train for the Olympics (or like), maybe that's great. If your goal is to get to the grocery store, maybe not.


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## lovestravel (Apr 9, 2012)

Why hate denver so much? It ranks very high on overall happiness, health, walk ability and quality of life. Plus it has state income tax and housing we can afford.

We would consider San Jose, which we looked into a few years ago and just couldn't afford anything decent to live in there. Housing was ridiculous. We will consider downtown San Diego if we simply cannot handle the winter in denver. I love Chicago as well but it is super expensive too. I didn't care for any of the East Coast cities I have visited except Savannah but the heat and humidity would kill us there. Same for Florida. Plus my family doesn't like beaches or sand. None of us can really handle the heat. We are much more suited to colder temps.

I know it will take some time to get used to the higher altitudes but people who live there do adjust. And yes, we are all very athletic with daily trips to the gym and can hike up to 16 miles in the mountains already. Normal hikes for us are at least 12 miles. We might be middle aged but haven't lost it yet!

One drawback I see for us is the on time rating and limited direct domestic and international flights from denver airport. 

There are no perfect cities but if you make a list of criteria and start with the most important ones you can find a lovely place to live and adapt to things that may not be the best.


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## BBCWatcher (Dec 28, 2012)

lovestravel said:


> Why hate denver so much?


I like Denver quite a lot!

The issue is _what are your desired lifestyle attributes_? If you enjoy skiing frequently then don't move to Singapore, for example. Or move to Singapore but then don't be surprised that your desired but incompatible lifestyle attributes, e.g. frequent skiing, simply cannot be achieved.


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## lovestravel (Apr 9, 2012)

*Multiple moving issues - return to the US*

It looks like denver won't happen for us this week. Our air shipment still hasn't been shipped from the UK. Last time we got the air shipment within a week. It was packed and picked up by the movers on November 21 and as of now they still haven't even scheduled the flight yet! Gah! We are stuck near our storage unit or be tasked with returning when the air shipment is scheduled to arrive. If we had known they were going to be so slow I would have done the extra bags on the flight.

The other challenge we have is the company is cutting him loose. He is desperately trying to find another job but in December most companies are done hiring for the year. As far as I know, we don't qualify for unemployment since we have been out of the country. We hired an attorney to help us with this. They offered up 5 weeks severance if he signs away his rights to sue them forever. So we are facing no job, no income, no health insurance, no home (living in hotel right now), and no car! Lovely. So glad he uprooted his family to increase their business by 82% in EMEA only to be given the boot upon return. Thanks a lot.

I don't know if this is the case but it seems suspicious that they suddenly decide to let him go and for some odd reason they refuse to ship our things from the UK now. I know it sounds like a conspiracy theory but I can't help but think they are going to refuse to move our things back to usa at their expense even though the contract is clear they will. Neither HR nor the shipping company is answering our calls or emails about the status.


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## matthewh133 (Nov 27, 2014)

> I want to live in the Pacific Northwest, but I can't because my spouse cannot get professional certification." OK, then, you won't be living in either Washington or Oregon. Case closed there. If you then require and/or prefer particular lifestyle attributes, why should it be surprising that the next best answers will be found elsewhere? Then if you don't like the next best answers, fine, but don't expect anybody to pretend that Denver doesn't experience snowfall and other forms of winter weather, that Boise has miles upon miles of oceanfront where the world's best seafood is caught and lands on your plate within mere minutes, and that San Francisco has thousands of America's most affordable apartments ready and waiting for you to rent. None of these things are true -- sorry about that!


We're still waiting on confirmation from Oregon that it's not at all possible but we've now found out for sure that Washington, Colorado and California are fine which is great. Pretty much the only place that we can't get a yes from its OR. Atm it looks like we'll either end up in Seattle, Boulder, Denver or possible Portland but my partner will then find a job in Vancouver, WA.. Though this option is tough due to the limited hospitals and jobs there.

Sorry to hear about the problems Lovestravel.


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## lovestravel (Apr 9, 2012)

Thanks. As many know an international move is stressful enough as it is. My husbands company has done nothing but make it even worse both ways.


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## BobRules (Dec 20, 2014)

Bellthorpe said:


> For the decades that I lived in Singapore I looked forward to going skiing, after Lee Kuan Yew said that the country would become the Switzerland of Asia.


Haha good one. 
Yeah it was just dealing with banking secrecy 

Anyways FATCA will kill both, hide your money in Luxembourg!


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## BBCWatcher (Dec 28, 2012)

Luxembourg and the United States have already signed a FATCA intergovernmental agreement.


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## lovestravel (Apr 9, 2012)

It looks like we are finally going to denver the day after Christmas. It took a total of 29 days for robinsons relocation/graebel to get our air shipment to us. Bah!

It's going to be awfully cold by the time we arrive. It will be a real test if we can handle it. We were told we had to make a decision on the final location for our sea shipment by the time it lands at the port of Houston around December 30 so it can go by rail. If we delay any further than that it will cost us an additional $5000 for them to offload it in Houston, store it and then go by truck to final destination. It is super frustrating that they didn't tell us this until the day the air shipment was delivered. We are faced with either skipping christmas with our families or make a decision if we like the location within two days. We were going to go look at San Jose and possibly San Diego but we have to choose only one city at this point.


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## Meritorious-MasoMenos (Apr 17, 2014)

lovestravel said:


> it looks like we are finally going to denver the day after christmas. It took a total of 29 days for robinsons relocation/graebel to get our air shipment to us. Bah!
> 
> It's going to be awfully cold by the time we arrive. It will be a real test if we can handle it. We were told we had to make a decision on the final location for our sea shipment by the time it lands at the port of houston around december 30 so it can go by rail. If we delay any further than that it will cost us an additional $5000 for them to offload it in houston, store it and then go by truck to final destination. It is super frustrating that they didn't tell us this until the day the air shipment was delivered. We are faced with either skipping christmas with our families or make a decision if we like the location within two days. We were going to go look at san jose and possibly san diego but we have to choose only one city at this point.


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## lovestravel (Apr 9, 2012)

Plan ahead for what exactly? The cold weather or something else?


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## lovestravel (Apr 9, 2012)

Made it to denver and spent a full day wandering around seeing what the city had to offer. It was certainly cold and we realised very quickly we need more proper winter clothes. Going to be a high of 7f Tuesday I think?

First impressions- the city seems to have a lot going for it. Lots of shops and restaurants. The panhandlers are a little more aggressive than I am used to. In England they just sit and ask as you walk by and we had people come right up to us right outside hotel and actually inside the grocery store. They try to start a conversation and then gradually lead into asking for money. They keep talking to you as you walk away. It made me very uncomfortable. We wandered over a lot of the city yesterday and it is very eclectic. Each neighborhood had its own personality. In spite of the cold, it is a very walkable city. With proper clothes it is perfectly fine. We did not try any of the public transport yesterday. The altitude hasn't seemed to bother any of us at all. 

We are going to do more wandering about today. We won't look at any properties until tomorrow. We are still trying to figure out which neighborhood we like the best. I think we ruled out the outer regions as it is too quiet and no public transport available.


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## lovestravel (Apr 9, 2012)

We definitely don't have proper clothes for this temp. Will have to go shopping.

One thing we have discovered on our house hunt is that while most businesses downtown are pet friendly where you can take your pet on a leash inside, most condo buildings are pet free or individual condos for rent will not allow pets. This has narrowed our search significantly since we have a cat. Finding a three bedroom that allows a cat is really a challenge. We are having to look a bit outside our desired area or possibly rent a two bed with a second studio in the same building for my husband to have a dedicated office since he works from home.


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## lovestravel (Apr 9, 2012)

We have finally found a place to live. We are going to have to downsize significantly. All of the three bedroom units were in buildings where no pets were allowed. We were willing to live in an older property but most of those for whatever reason are pet free communities. Housing market is tight and it was even hard to find a two bedroom unit. We have been able to do without a car since we arrived. Grocery is about a mile from downtown and they are building a new grocery by union station set to open in the spring which will be nice. We will initially have to rent an office space for my husband and possibly in the future get a separate apartment for our daughter when she is well enough to live on her own. Our new place is less than 1100 sq ft. We won't be able to even fit our king size bed in the bedroom. There will be no room for a dresser and tiny closet. Most of my clothes and shoes will have to go into storage and just rotate out with the seasons.

One thing that really bothers me about denver is the open pot smoking everywhere. It is illegal for public consumption but people do it all the time anyway right on the street and can smell it in the hotel halls even though it's a smoke free property.

The property we chose to live is smoke free so I am hoping it will help curb it. There are lots of new properties under construction but most will be really small. Transport options are pretty good although we haven't tried any of them. There are free buses in town and light rail and Amtrak options. There is a direct bus to the airport and eventually light rail all the way into the airport. I think by next year downtown will be an even easier place to live. If you can handle the begging on the street and the smell of pot everywhere it's an option for those seeking a car free lifestyle.


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## twostep (Apr 3, 2008)

Thank you for your update.
Crammed accommodations, secondary pot consumption, beggars, cold temperatures for the convenience of public transportation and walk ability to supermarkets are not desirable options for me personally.


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## Meritorious-MasoMenos (Apr 17, 2014)

twostep said:


> Thank you for your update.
> Crammed accommodations, secondary pot consumption, beggars, cold temperatures for the convenience of public transportation and walk ability to supermarkets are not desirable options for me personally.


You put it well on great utility of cars in the U.S. One reason I moved to Mexico City is to live a car-free life for awhile, but heck, cars are a real measure of American freedom, the reason Americans can pick up and go whenever they want.


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## lovestravel (Apr 9, 2012)

I wish there were more cities with car free lifestyle. I absolutely hate getting in the car to go anywhere. Our friends who recently moved to the Bay Area of California have told us ho hard it is to get around via public transport there. Fortunately, he is able to commute to work on his bike easily, they said it is really hard to get anywhere else without a car. I just don't have that love affair with my personal automobile as most Americans do. I know I will feel so much better once we aren't living in a hotel anymore.


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## BBCWatcher (Dec 28, 2012)

Meritorious-MasoMenos said:


> ...cars are a real measure of American freedom...


Not really. _Cheap_ (and heavily subsidized) automotive transportation arguably was, but even then it wasn't if you couldn't drive and didn't have somebody who could -- many elderly, those with poor eyesight, and others.

Then there are those who question whether the traffic jams and parking struggles, highway fatalities (including pedestrians), productive time lost while driving, oil dependence, high infrastructure costs, and car-oriented development (e.g. decline of "Main Street" retailing) added up to "freedom."

America's youth are way ahead of their elders, I'd say.


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## lovestravel (Apr 9, 2012)

Good points. I personally think cars create more isolation and to a certain degree a more sedentary lifestyle. Money is spent to walk on a treadmill in a gym when I can just walk to do my errands instead and maybe have a conversation with someone along the way. When I was young I used to say I wasn't going to drive myself anywhere and have a driver, but now I am perfectly content to walk or ride along on a train. Every time I have to get in the car to drive I get so stressed.


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