# Which Passport UK or Spanish???



## Pollypocket (Sep 22, 2009)

We are moving to Spain hopefully before our baby is due end of May 2010, does anybody know will the baby get a UK or Spanish passport?

Thanks
Polly


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

I suspect your baby will get both providing you do all the necessary paperwork


Jo xxx


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## morlandg (Jun 8, 2008)

jojo said:


> I suspect your baby will get both providing you do all the necessary paperwork
> 
> 
> Jo xxx


IMHO
First of all it depends what nationality you and the father are - but assuming you are both British citizens then you will be able to apply at the British Consulate here in Spain for a UK passport. It will depend on the UK government's rules as to whether you will be able to apply for a Spanish passport. This is how I understand it - for eg Denmark allows dual citizenship but Sweden does not - you have to revoke your Swedish citizenship in order to obtain a Spanish passport.
I'm sure more knowlegible (how the hell do you spell this word??) OPs will respond to your Q.
Graham


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

morlandg said:


> IMHO
> First of all it depends what nationality you and the father are - but assuming you are both British citizens then you will be able to apply at the British Consulate here in Spain for a UK passport. It will depend on the UK government's rules as to whether you will be able to apply for a Spanish passport. This is how I understand it - for eg Denmark allows dual citizenship but Sweden does not - you have to revoke your Swedish citizenship in order to obtain a Spanish passport.
> I'm sure more knowlegible (how the hell do you spell this word??) OPs will respond to your Q.
> Graham



The poster is from the UK and the UK does allow dual citizenship. To my knowledge, the childs birth certificate would have to be in Spain if thats where he/she is born and therefore is entitled to be a Spanish citizen. The parents, if they are both uk passport holders (in fact I think if only one is) then that can be applied to the child via the British consulate. Thats how I understand it, but I´m not the sharpest tool in the box LOL


Jo xxx


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## morlandg (Jun 8, 2008)

Pollypocket said:


> We are moving to Spain hopefully before our baby is due end of May 2010, does anybody know will the baby get a UK or Spanish passport?
> 
> Thanks
> Polly


If you have a look at the following you might find all of your answers:
Can my child have more than one nationality?
Graham


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## Fatbrit (May 8, 2008)

jojo said:


> I suspect your baby will get both providing you do all the necessary paperwork
> 
> 
> Jo xxx


I doubt it! _Jus soli_ is fading fast except in the US where it sits almost inviolate in the XIVth. It left the UK in 1983 BTW.

My quick reading of it is that the child will not be a Spanish citizen at birth unless one of their parents was Spanish or neither parent possessed a nationality. But it was a very quick research.


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## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

Fatbrit said:


> I doubt it! _Jus soli_ is fading fast except in the US where it sits almost inviolable in the XIVth. It left the UK in 1983 BTW.
> 
> My quick reading of it is that the child will not be a Spanish citizen at birth unless one of their parents was Spanish or neither parent possessed a nationality. But it was a very quick research.


I think you're right on this one. Someone I know looked into the situation, due to similar circumstances (different nationalities involved), but the end result is that a child born in Spain only gets Spanish nationality if one or both of the parents is Spanish or if neither parent has a nationality that can be transmitted to the child and thus the child would be stateless. (In the case I know of, the child was born in France, which has changed its laws recently and because the parents' nationality was not transmissible, the poor little kid literally is stateless. Parents then moved to Spain and were hoping maybe their kid can get Spanish nationality based on the Spanish "loophole.")

I know I was surprised a few years ago when researching this issue to find that _jus sanguinis_ is by far the dominant system for acquiring nationality at birth. And as you mentioned, it is just getting more popular these days.
Cheers,
Bev


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## Pollypocket (Sep 22, 2009)

Thank you everybody for your replies, we are both British.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Bevdeforges said:


> I think you're right on this one. Someone I know looked into the situation, due to similar circumstances (different nationalities involved), but the end result is that a child born in Spain only gets Spanish nationality if one or both of the parents is Spanish or if neither parent has a nationality that can be transmitted to the child and thus the child would be stateless. (In the case I know of, the child was born in France, which has changed its laws recently and because the parents' nationality was not transmissible, the poor little kid literally is stateless. Parents then moved to Spain and were hoping maybe their kid can get Spanish nationality based on the Spanish "loophole.")
> 
> I know I was surprised a few years ago when researching this issue to find that _jus sanguinis_ is by far the dominant system for acquiring nationality at birth. And as you mentioned, it is just getting more popular these days.
> Cheers,
> Bev


so how come I 'know' someone on a different forum who is british, as is his wife - and they have 2 kids born here in spain who have spanish passports?

i'm pretty sure they also have british ones, too


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

xabiachica said:


> so how come I 'know' someone on a different forum who is british, as is his wife - and they have 2 kids born here in spain who have spanish passports?
> 
> i'm pretty sure they also have british ones, too


While I hate to give 100% credence to Wikipedia, this is what it says under Spanish nationaility law:

_The Spanish nationality can also be acquired by residence in Spain. To apply for nationality by residence it is necessary for the individual to have lived in Spain for:[8]
ten years, or 
five years if the individual is a refugee, or 
two years if the individual is a national of a country of Iberoamerica, Andorra, Philippines, Equatorial Guinea, Portugal, or if the individual is Sephardic (i.e. a descendent of the Spanish Jews, expelled in 1492), or 
*one year for those individuals: 
born in Spanish territory*, whose parents are foreign and legally resident in Spain_

So it looks as though children born in Spain of British parents will be British at birth, but can also acquire Spanish citizenship on application by their parents after one year. Their births will have to be registered locally of course, and application has to be made to the Civil Registry.
Someone else I'm sure can quote Spanish rules and regulations on it. Britain allows multiple nationality liberally, while at least Spain permits dual citizenship if it is automatically acquired through birth (e.g. one of the parents being Spanish or born in Spain).


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## Fatbrit (May 8, 2008)

xabiachica said:


> so how come I 'know' someone on a different forum who is british, as is his wife - and they have 2 kids born here in spain who have spanish passports?
> 
> i'm pretty sure they also have british ones, too


It would seem there are multiple options for obtaining Spanish citizenship: by origin, through residence, by consolidation, and by option. 

But there seems to be no pure _jus soli_ as there is in the US, and was in the UK before 1983.

More information would be needed to work out by what method they acquired Spanish citizenship.


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## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

xabiachica said:


> so how come I 'know' someone on a different forum who is british, as is his wife - and they have 2 kids born here in spain who have spanish passports?
> 
> i'm pretty sure they also have british ones, too


Citizenship law has also been changing over the last 5 or 10 years just about everywhere in the EU. Depends, I suppose, on when the kids were born in Spain.

Up until a few years ago, anyone born in France got French nationality. It was actually quite a shock to those of us who knew this one couple when they said their baby could not get French nationality due to the fairly recent change in the law.
Cheers,
Bev


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## MRVT (May 17, 2008)

xabiachica said:


> so how come I 'know' someone on a different forum who is british, as is his wife - and they have 2 kids born here in spain who have spanish passports?
> 
> i'm pretty sure they also have british ones, too


Me? Lol
2 of mine were born in Spain and have Spanish birth certificates, DNI numbers and therefore Spanish passports. They will have the option of UK passports if they so wish through the Consulate in Madrid.
Supposedly, my eldest who was born in the UK should be in the Family book, but no one can say yes or no to that at the moment, even though we have been granted "Familiar Numerosa"!


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## Fatbrit (May 8, 2008)

MRVT said:


> Me? Lol
> 2 of mine were born in Spain and have Spanish birth certificates, DNI numbers and therefore Spanish passports. They will have the option of UK passports if they so wish through the Consulate in Madrid.
> Supposedly, my eldest who was born in the UK should be in the Family book, but no one can say yes or no to that at the moment, even though we have been granted "Familiar Numerosa"!


So were they Spanish from birth?


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

MRVT said:


> Me? Lol
> 2 of mine were born in Spain and have Spanish birth certificates, DNI numbers and therefore Spanish passports. They will have the option of UK passports if they so wish through the Consulate in Madrid.
> Supposedly, my eldest who was born in the UK should be in the Family book, but no one can say yes or no to that at the moment, even though we have been granted "Familiar Numerosa"!


If you are who I think you are


yeah, you :clap2:


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Surely if a child is born in a country, it has to have the birth certificate/certification of that country - that is common sense isnt it?? The UK cant certify a birth if it didnt happen there!?? Working on that theory, to get the said child back to the UK or anywhere else it would need a passport and that passport must be related to the country of birth - or am I way off??

Jo xxx


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## MRVT (May 17, 2008)

jojo said:


> Surely if a child is born in a country, it has to have the birth certificate/certification of that country - that is common sense isnt it?? The UK cant certify a birth if it didnt happen there!?? Working on that theory, to get the said child back to the UK or anywhere else it would need a passport and that passport must be related to the country of birth - or am I way off??
> 
> Jo xxx


Correcto! The births can also be registered at the British consulate which gets them a UK birth certificate too though!


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## MRVT (May 17, 2008)

xabiachica said:


> If you are who I think you are
> 
> 
> yeah, you :clap2:


Lol, the clue is in the user name!!


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## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

jojo said:


> Surely if a child is born in a country, it has to have the birth certificate/certification of that country - that is common sense isnt it?? The UK cant certify a birth if it didnt happen there!?? Working on that theory, to get the said child back to the UK or anywhere else it would need a passport and that passport must be related to the country of birth - or am I way off??
> 
> Jo xxx


Not necessarily - it depends on the nationality of the parents and then what the laws are in the country in which the child is born. The case I know of involves Argentinian parents with a child born in France. The way the law has changed, the kid doesn't get French nationality - and apparently he can't get Argentinian nationality until and unless he lives in Argentina for some period of time.

To travel back to Argentina with his parents, the Argentinian embassy gave the parents a special travel document, but not a passport. Evidently he'll have to get one of these every time he wants to leave the EU. What I think is happening now is that his parents are going for Spanish nationality so that the kid will get that at least by naturalization.

The situation kind of freaked me out when I first heard about it - but it IS possible to be born without a nationality these days. 
Cheers,
Bev


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## Fatbrit (May 8, 2008)

jojo said:


> Surely if a child is born in a country, it has to have the birth certificate/certification of that country - that is common sense isnt it?? The UK cant certify a birth if it didnt happen there!?? Working on that theory, to get the said child back to the UK or anywhere else it would need a passport and that passport must be related to the country of birth - or am I way off??
> 
> Jo xxx


The country where you were born will certainly issue a birth certificate. But if there is no _jus soli _ (literally "right of the soil") then you will derive no citizenship benefits from it. For example, if a child was born to American citizen couple serving on a US military base before 1983, the child would have had both US and UK citizenship. However, after 1983 the child would have had only US citizenship since the UK repealed _jus soli_.

Consulates issue secondary birth certificates. (The UK embassy charges an unreasonable sum for this IMVHO!) In my example above, the US couple who gave birth to a child in the UK would have had to apply for both a consular record of birth for their child and a US passport in order to travel back to the US with him/her.

My cursory reading of the Spanish citizenship law for Brits living there is that if their child is born in Spain and the parents are resident, the child has a claim on Spanish citizenship after their first birthday. The child also has a claim on UK citizenship provided their parents are British "otherwise than by descent". However, the issue seems to come when the child reaches the age of majority. Spain does not appear to sit easily with the concept of dual citizenship, and since the child was not Spanish at birth (the one-year delay), then use of another citizenship will revoke their Spanish citizenship. But I could be totally wrong, of course!


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Fatbrit said:


> My cursory reading of the Spanish citizenship law for Brits living there is that if their child is born in Spain and the parents are resident, the child has a claim on Spanish citizenship after their first birthday. The child also has a claim on UK citizenship provided their parents are British "otherwise than by descent". However, the issue seems to come when the child reaches the age of majority. Spain does not appear to sit easily with the concept of dual citizenship, and since the child was not Spanish at birth (the one-year delay), then use of another citizenship will revoke their Spanish citizenship. But I could be totally wrong, of course!


I too am puzzled by the exact interpretation of Spanish law regarding dual/multiple nationals. AFAIK Spain only recognises dual nationality unconditionally for citizens of former Spanish colonies, including most countries in Latin America, the Philippines etc, and Sephardic Jews. They can acquire Spanish citizenship, as adults, after a suitable period of residency in Spain, without having to renounce their existing nationality. Things don't seem to be so straightforward for other nationals. For adult Britons, who wsh to be naturalised as Spanish after a long residence in Spain (normally 10 years), they will *have* to renounce their British citizenship or they won't be naturalised. Things seem less clear with children (under 18s). Apparently those born in Spain of foreign (e.g. British) parents can obtain Spain citizenship after living there for a year (presumably because they aren't in a position to make a decision themselves over a choice of nationalities). But at the age of majority, they will have to make a legal choice to retain one of the citizenships, and to renounce the one they no longer want to keep. Similar rules exist in Japan, another country with tight restriction on dual citizenship, where a choice has to be made before their 22nd birthday. What would happen if they don't and retain both citizenships in Spain again seems less clear. Some have had no problems renewing their two passports, while others have been quizzed at Spanish airports over carrying two passports (when the fact became known, e.g. absence of visa stamps from non-EU countries). It may well be that the authorities turn a blind eye and don't go out of their way to hunt down and punish irregular dual nationals, unless the facts have been drawn to their attention when they are compelled to act under law. One fact remains for dual nationals, whether official or unofficial: you cannot expect to receive consular assistance against the authorities of the country you are a citizen of and where you legally live ( as stated on British passports).


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## mickybob (Dec 31, 2008)

Spain Nationality & Citizenship Law - Law Firm, Lawyers, Law Firms, Lawyer, Injury, Attorney in Spain

This may help you.


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## muckinaround (Jan 3, 2010)

my son was born in spain n has british passport but if my son ever wants to live in england hes better off with a spanish passport hell get every benefit he ever wants where as being british hell get sweet FA


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