# Relatives permit



## cng2611 (Jan 7, 2013)

Hello

Please can someone confirm exactly what paperwork I need to get a relatives permit for South Africa. The SA embassy website seems to be down at the moment.
Do I just need a police certificate form or do I also need to get a CRB certificate too? If so, what level of CRB clearance do I need?
Also, when I go to the embassy, will I get the permit straightaway or if not, how long does it take?
Any info would be much appreciated.
Thanks


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## LegalMan (Dec 26, 2012)

Hi cng2611

Unfortunately it is very difficult to tell you, unless I know whether you really need a Relative's Permit, and then which type you need. It all depends. Are you married to a South African? Related how?

As for other documents, there is a standard list, but even then, your specific situation may require a few additions.

*A very basic list, but without definitions and specifications, is:*
Passport
Photographs
Police Clearance (for applicants older than 18 years of age)
Medical Report
Radiological Report
Yellow fever vaccination certificate (sometimes)
A Repatriation Deposit (sometimes)
Application fees (sometimes)


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## cng2611 (Jan 7, 2013)

Hello

Thanks for reply. I'm from the UK but am married to a South African. I've been told that I can only get a relatives permit here and will then have to apply for a spousal visa once in South Africa.


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## LegalMan (Dec 26, 2012)

cng2611 said:


> Hello
> 
> Thanks for reply. I'm from the UK but am married to a South African. I've been told that I can only get a relatives permit here and will then have to apply for a spousal visa once in South Africa.


This is really not true. A Spousal Permit is a type of Relative's Permit. You can apply for a Relative's Permit at any SA Embassy. I'd really advise you to get the advise of a South African immigration lawyer.

How long have you been married? If more than 5 years, you can also apply for Permanent Residency.

As long as you have a marriage certificate and the other documents, you can go to the very efficient UK office and get your permit in under 30 days.


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## cng2611 (Jan 7, 2013)

So, just to confirm, does that mean I can apply for both a spousal visa and perm residency in the uk as I have been married for 5 years? 
Thanks


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## Saartjie (Mar 1, 2010)

LegalMan said:


> This is really not true. A Spousal Permit is a type of Relative's Permit. You can apply for a Relative's Permit at any SA Embassy. I'd really advise you to get the advise of a South African immigration lawyer.
> 
> How long have you been married? If more than 5 years, you can also apply for Permanent Residency.
> 
> As long as you have a marriage certificate and the other documents, you can go to the very efficient UK office and get your permit in under 30 days.


The experience I have had and most other people who applied via the SA Embassy in London (and in other countries as well) is that they do not issue Spousal Permits. You will ask for a Spousal Permit but will inevitably end up with a Relatives Permit. Why this is I do not know but I have yet to find someone who has been able to obtain a Spousal Permit outside SA. It should really not make any difference where you apply but apparently this is the case. When I approached the SA Embassy in my home country of Sweden they confirmed that they do not have authority to issue Spousal Permits but only issue standard Relatives Permits (the ones that cannot be endorsed for work).


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## LegalMan (Dec 26, 2012)

As I have mentioned a number of times, the Spousal Permit is a type of Relative's Permit. They are issuing exactly what you would receive in South Africa.


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## Saartjie (Mar 1, 2010)

LegalMan said:


> As I have mentioned a number of times, the Spousal Permit is a type of Relative's Permit. They are issuing exactly what you would receive in South Africa.


Sorry but that is not always the case. Ask other people on this forum how many have asked for a Spousal Relatives Permit but have ended up with another version of a Relatives Permit. When issued with the permit they are informed that the permit they have been issued can be endorsed for work but when they have got a job offer and attend HA in SA to get the permit endorsed they are informed that the Relatives Pemit that they have been issued abroad cannot be endorsed for work. 

As previously stated, I have yet to find someone who has succesfully obtained the Spousal Relatives Permit outside SA. I am not saying that it cannot be done I am just saying that practice shows that it is not being done.


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## LegalMan (Dec 26, 2012)

If someone is married to a South African and submitted for a Spousal Permit and got something else, then something went wrong.

What exact permit were they then issued? What exactly was written on their permit stamp? I think this is a case of wording not being understood.


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## LegalMan (Dec 26, 2012)

*Visa and Permanent Residence in the UK*



cng2611 said:


> So, just to confirm, does that mean I can apply for both a spousal visa and perm residency in the uk as I have been married for 5 years?
> Thanks


Yes, that is 100% correct.


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## Saartjie (Mar 1, 2010)

LegalMan said:


> If someone is married to a South African and submitted for a Spousal Permit and got something else, then something went wrong.
> 
> What exact permit were they then issued? What exactly was written on their permit stamp? I think this is a case of wording not being understood.


The permit issued, which is the same permit that I was issue with says, Relatives Permit - To reside with SA Spouse ID No..... When I subsequently attended HA with my job offer and asked for the permit to be endorsed I was told this was not possible I therefore assume that the permit was issued under section 18. I then had to apply for my section 11(6) permit which could be endorsed for work. This has happended to a lot of other people so I am by no means an exception. At the time of application I had been married to my husband for 4 years and 8 months and we had a child together.

I am not trying to argue with you I am just saying that SA Embassies do not generally issue the Spousal Relatives Permit. You can ask for it but they inevitably do not provide you with it. It may be something wrong about it but it is what is happening at the moment.


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## LegalMan (Dec 26, 2012)

Saartjie said:


> The permit issued, which is the same permit that I was issue with says, Relatives Permit - To reside with SA Spouse ID No..... When I subsequently attended HA with my job offer and asked for the permit to be endorsed I was told this was not possible I therefore assume that the permit was issued under section 18. I then had to apply for my section 11(6) permit which could be endorsed for work. This has happended to a lot of other people so I am by no means an exception. At the time of application I had been married to my husband for 4 years and 8 months and we had a child together.
> 
> I am not trying to argue with you I am just saying that SA Embassies do not generally issue the Spousal Relatives Permit. You can ask for it but they inevitably do not provide you with it. It may be something wrong about it but it is what is happening at the moment.


In your first paragraph, you describe getting a Spousal Permit. To reside with SA Spouse means a Spousal Permit.


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## Saartjie (Mar 1, 2010)

LegalMan said:


> In your first paragraph, you describe getting a Spousal Permit. To reside with SA Spouse means a Spousal Permit.


Fine, then I am also confused. This is what my first permit states and that permit I was told by HA when I attended to get it endorsed is not a Spousal Permit and it could not be endorsed for work. I thought the point of the Spousal Permit was that it could be endorsed for work? Anyway, three permits later, I now have the permit that I require, whatever the permit is. 

The point I was trying to make, whatever permit it was that I was granted is the same permit that other people get when they apply abroad. When they subsequently attend HA in SA to get this particular permit endorsed it is not possible. As previoulsy stated, why this is I do not know.


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## SusanL (Sep 23, 2012)

Hi,
I agree with Saartjie here. I have recently (this past month) applied for a spouse permit. I have been with my South African partner for over 8 years. In my application I included the South African Immigration Act wording and the exact parts of the act that applied to my situation. When i spoke to the South African High Commission here in Australia, they said that they only issue Relative's Permits. In my passport, my South African visa states "Relatives Permit, to reside with spouse who is a RSA citizen....."
I was informed that i am not allowed to work on this permit, even though I included the Immigration Act wording, and showed exactly which visa i wanted and didn't want. The Act features section 11 (6) and states that a spouse of a South African citizen can apply for this visa and work. The Relative's Permit is section 18 (2) and states that one cannot work on this permit.
So after applying, the South African High Commission here ignored my request for the visa I wanted and issued me with a Relative's Permit because they do not ever issue the visa i wanted, and the one most people on here are referring to, the Spouse Visa. So in order to work in RSA, i need to go to Home Affairs and change the permit i was given and get the correct one, which i originally applied for. All good - that's South Africa, i just wish people would give out the correct information, and if you are not sure, please don't comment on other people's situation.
In addition, to apply for Permanent Resident, i was informed you can only do this in South Africa and you can't do it at the same time as your Temporary Resident application (even though i fulfil the requirements of being with my partner for longer than 5 years.

Conclusion - if you apply for a Spouse visa abroad (which is the much quicker way to go), you will get a Relative's Permit no matter what. Then, go to South Africa, get a job contract, get it changed and you're good to go.


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## LegalMan (Dec 26, 2012)

Saartjie - we really need the wiki at the top of the forum. All these posts have the same confusion.

*RELATIVE*
The Spousal Permit is not something that exists with that name in the Immigration Act. The Spousal Permit is this:


> A Relatives Permit, to reside with spouse who is a RSA citizen.


Your spouse is your relative. If your spouse is South African, you get the above quoted.

*WORK:*
If someone wants to work, they usually have to go through a lot of loops to get a permit. But as a certain type of Relative (in this case spouse), you don't have to. You can start working with only a signed job offer.

When someone says that you can work ON a Spousal Permit, what they mean is that you can CHANGE your permit to a Section 11 (6) with a work endorsement.

Some people ask, why the change in permit? This is because the Act does not allow endorsements or work on a Relative's Permit.

*HOME AFFAIRS*
Home Affairs is right, there is "no such permit" because they don't necessarily use the term Spousal Permit in their daily vocabulary. They see you asking them to endorse your Relative's Permit, which is not allowed.

Hope this makes sense.



> In addition, to apply for Permanent Resident, i was informed you can only do this in South Africa and you can't do it at the same time as your Temporary Resident application (even though i fulfil the requirements of being with my partner for longer than 5 years.


This is not true. I know for a fact that people do this at the UK office. Perhaps you handed in one before the other.


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## Saartjie (Mar 1, 2010)

SusanL said:


> Hi,
> I agree with Saartjie here. I have recently (this past month) applied for a spouse permit. I have been with my South African partner for over 8 years. In my application I included the South African Immigration Act wording and the exact parts of the act that applied to my situation. When i spoke to the South African High Commission here in Australia, they said that they only issue Relative's Permits. In my passport, my South African visa states "Relatives Permit, to reside with spouse who is a RSA citizen....."
> I was informed that i am not allowed to work on this permit, even though I included the Immigration Act wording, and showed exactly which visa i wanted and didn't want. The Act features section 11 (6) and states that a spouse of a South African citizen can apply for this visa and work. The Relative's Permit is section 18 (2) and states that one cannot work on this permit.
> So after applying, the South African High Commission here ignored my request for the visa I wanted and issued me with a Relative's Permit because they do not ever issue the visa i wanted, and the one most people on here are referring to, the Spouse Visa. So in order to work in RSA, i need to go to Home Affairs and change the permit i was given and get the correct one, which i originally applied for. All good - that's South Africa, i just wish people would give out the correct information, and if you are not sure, please don't comment on other people's situation.
> ...


Yes, you exactly set out the experience of many. I can see from Legal Man's response below though that there may be an explanation for this. 

It is not true that you must apply for PR in SA, you can do this from any embassy. You can absolutely apply for both TR and PR at the same time. However, I was also told by the SA Embassy in London that this is not possible. I now know that this is incorrect as I have applied for both.


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