# CBN families/singles around Denia/Javea/Moraira/Calpe etc ...



## Expatliving (Oct 21, 2013)

Anybody out there got blogs up and running for us to follow? Also, friendly contacts to glean basic local information would be great?

Me and the better half have three children, one will stay in the UK, the other two (school age) will be with us.

The obvious local questions will be asked, however, we would love to get to know a few people/families to soften the change of location within the next 18 months. I'm a builder (isn't everybody in the expat community?) lol. The Mrs is a Ofsted childcare worker, so we're really quite sane!!

We are going to purchase soon after arrival, I won't bore you with the woes of London life, although, the house prices in London have risen 10% in one month! But it's all the nonsense around the nice things that are making life in the UK more like dining in an expensive restaurant, but getting average food!

Thank you in advance.

Graham


----------



## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Expatliving said:


> Anybody out there got blogs up and running for us to follow? Also, friendly contacts to glean basic local information would be great?
> 
> Me and the better half have three children, one will stay in the UK, the other two (school age) will be with us.
> 
> ...


I hope you're not going to desperately need work as theres such high unemployment in Spain - builders are probably the worst hit as the property bubble has well and truly burst, most expat builders are struggling or have moved to other countries - hence property prices are falling. 

Renting is the best thing you can do when you first arrive, so that you can get a feel for the area and start to understand the way things work - buying a house is nothing like it is in the UK.

Jo xxx


----------



## Expatliving (Oct 21, 2013)

Thanks for that Jojo. Yes, I know the building situation is bad, however, I'm planning on doing renovation (on my own property) when I arrive, so my initial employment (Self-Employed) is not an issue. 

With regard to buying a house, that really doesn't faze me, I would have completely researched the 'system' prior to purchase ... Working for a large law practice in the UK taught me to check and double check every legal document, and I only worked on the administration side of things! 

I know that ownership and debts against properties are a major issue in Spain, also, the dreaded land grab situation and researching proposed urbanisation plans. I've got plenty of time to find legal representatives that have no connection to the village/town/area for which I proposed to buy. Using the suggested legal teams via a real estate are a definite no no.

It certainly is a minefield, challenge or even a complete nightmare ... But thousands do it without a problem each year, so fingers crossed I'll be one of those come 2015.

I like your no nonsense style BTW, that's exactly the type of approach I need to avoid potential problems with the Spanish system.

Cheers


----------



## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

I did as I suspect you are proposing. Bought a property to renovate but then decided to buy more properties to renovate and then rent out.

If I had my time again, I would NOT have taken this path.

My wife is fluent in Spanish and pretty adept at Valencian. I, on the other hand, can just about manage with Spanish. Despite this we have had no end of problems with builders and the planning offices. We know the rules and regulations but still the town hall can cause problems for you unless 'your face fits' (probably means back-handers!).

We now have a portfolio of properties, some reformed and rented some almost there and one complete building (550 m2) awaiting reform. We have, however, finished our main villa. 

Be careful. You might do loads of homework on how to get licences but the town hall is still the final arbitrator and they are a law unto themselves.


----------



## dayrelease (Oct 22, 2013)

hi mate,

just a couple of things.

1. Wherever you go, rent for the first six months. I have seen hundreds of people buy in Spain and then decide they don't like it. You will lose so much money in property sales taxes if you sell quickly so when you buy you are buying for 10 years minimum.

2. if your children are over 7 they will not do well in Spanish schools, they will be put back at least 1 or 2 years until their Spanish is up to scratch. There is a fantastic English speaking school in Javea, but it is 10k per year per child.

3. The is mass unemployment at the moment and the economy is in a woeful state. don't rely on getting a job or running your own business for the next year or two.

4. There is a great social/sales group on facebook called sellyourstuffspain. It really is the grapevine and great for locating rentals, furniture, dentists, mechanics. etc.

5. Don't be put off by anything i have said above, but plan well and do your research. Spain is a great place to live and i never regret coming here.

Steve


----------



## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

dayrelease said:


> hi mate,
> 
> just a couple of things.
> 
> ...


I think you can extend the age a bit for most kids - my elder daughter was nearly 9 when she moved to the Spanish system - she already had a good grounding in Spanish, but I know several families whose kids that age & a year or so older who started in the Spanish system & were/are fine - generally up to about age 10 they are OK

of course, some kids who join at age 5 NEVER settle in - it all depends on the child & the support they get in the home


----------



## Expatliving (Oct 21, 2013)

Hello Steve.

Thanks for that, my little un' will be 10 when the move is planned, so it will be a toss up between State & International school. My middle child will definitely be International, as he will be post GCSE stage.

The rental or buy issue is the main headache, the simple fact is rental property around the Costas is ridiculously expensive for a reasonable sized home, not merely a holiday home for a couple of weeks. It would be rude to suggest that some agents/owners are being unreasonable? However, if your abode is worth around 200k it doesn't warrant 1500-2000 euros a month for rental, or am I being out of touch with the local rental market?

On the plus side for my little clan, the house prices are going mad in London again (I bet there will be a few investors heading back from the Costas pronto) and at the moment, inflation of prices in my area of the capital are running at 8-10% increase per month!

So, as you can see, I'm taking my time to accumulate the school fees for one, possibly two children in around 18 months.

With regard to working, I don't plan to build 'big' ... just renovate. Property management is more my thing and this avenue will be explored as a potential form of revenue.

Either way, I will work for myself and pay for the privilege of getting into the state health care as explained in other threads.

As mentioned above, its all about the first six months, buy or not to buy? People have suggested about keeping a bolt hole in the UK? But if that was a 'place' local to where I live now, that would have to be a bolt hole of 150k, as that is the going price for flats in my area. 

Anyway, loads to take in ... but thanks for the nod in the right direction.

Regards
Graham


----------



## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Expatliving said:


> With regard to working, I don't plan to build 'big' ... just renovate. Property management is more my thing and this avenue will be explored as a potential form of revenue.
> 
> Either way, I will work for myself and pay for the privilege of getting into the state health care as explained in other threads.
> 
> ...


 For heavens sake please do a lot of research and fact finding on that one. I know soooo many people who have tried the renovating game - mainly builders who havent got any work and they've all got burned - house prices are falling, tax is high when selling reformed properties and permissions to renovate/reform arent easy to get!!!

Jo xxx


----------



## Expatliving (Oct 21, 2013)

Hello JoJo.

I understand the situation is dire with building work, but the renovation work I'm suggesting is solely on my own property, I'm more into estate management, after years of working for corporations in the city of London dealing with facilities etc.

As I mentioned in my earlier posting, thankfully, the London housing market is going crazy as we speak, which I guess is in complete contrast to the Costas etc? With a bit of luck, the extra collateral I pull together over the next 18 months will assist in my living expenses for quite some time? 

I know it's a risky decision moving away from the relative safety of an economy on the turn, but I also have to weigh up a calculated purchase whilst the Spanish property market is still on it's knees. The situation will not last forever in Spain, I fully expect the Spanish economy to start recovering once the 'powers to be' have renegotiated those toxic loans with the European banking giants. 

There was a time not so long ago when Europeans piled into the Spanish market expecting a nice little earner ... Those same persons have either ******ed off back to their respective countries with huge loses, or are stuck watching other economies start to recover ... As I said, an 18 month cooling off period is ideal, prior to a decision.

Lots of research to be done by my lot!

Regards
Graham


----------



## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

Expatliving said:


> Hello JoJo.
> 
> I understand the situation is dire with building work, but the renovation work I'm suggesting is solely on my own property, I'm more into estate management, after years of working for corporations in the city of London dealing with facilities etc.
> 
> ...



Graham, are you aware that to do ANYTHING, even on your own property, you need a licence!

I was recently replacing two broken floor tiles. The police rolled up and asked what I was doing, they then asked for my licence - I hadn't got one for two replacement tiles. I will be reported and fined!

You will even (in theory) need a licence to paint rooms INSIDE your house. Many people, like me, ignore these legalities at there peril - I will now pay the price.

I too would advise renting for a couple of years first. If you do buy, then don't plan on EVER selling it - plan to pass it on to your children and then just pray that they are happy to live where the property is.


----------



## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Expatliving said:


> Hello JoJo.
> 
> I understand the situation is dire with building work, but the renovation work I'm suggesting is solely on my own property, I'm more into estate management, after years of working for corporations in the city of London dealing with facilities etc.
> 
> ...


The problem in Spain is going to last a good few years, if not decades. There are still hundreds of empty, half built/new builds that litter the costas. There are also many estate agents (those who havent gone under) who have diversified to rentals and estate management. Theres not much money in it unfortunately. I have several estate agent friends who are struggling. The only one who seems to be doing ok, also has business interests in Canada. 

I'm sure you will do as much research as you can tho, with lots of fact finding missions "knowledge is king". You maybe lucky and find a niche in the market that others havent already. But its fair to say that the days of anyone making any money at all out of property in Spain have well and truly gone. In the end, buy there because you want to live there

Jo xxx


----------



## zenkarma (Feb 15, 2013)

Expatliving said:


> As I mentioned in my earlier posting, thankfully, the London housing market is going crazy as we speak, which I guess is in complete contrast to the Costas etc? With a bit of luck, the extra collateral I pull together over the next 18 months will assist in my living expenses for quite some time?


Hi Graham

The London and SE property market is indeed going completely nuts at the moment, I know what you're talking about. I've just accepted an asking price offer on my own Surrey house this morning within 3 days of putting it on the market! Quite surreal.

However, going on what you've said so far, I just don't see how you intend to sustain yourself financially in Spain by working on your own property? How is that going to generate an income for you? I assume you intend to use the equity released from your London property by buying a cheaper property in Spain, doing it up and living off the difference. What happens when that money runs out? That's not really sustainable.

I can well understand why you might want to exit London and the UK because I probably feel the same way and am doing so for similar reasons but please don't think Spain will be a panacea for all the UK's problems. It isn't — it has it's own problems, they're just different ones.

I also feel you're under-estimating the work situation in Spain. There's a reason the unemployment there is now pushing 30% and even taking into consideration the UK governments heavily manipulated employment figures there is still significantly more unemployed in Spain than there is in the UK.

Rent or buy? One of the biggest issues with buying property in Spain at the moment is the initial transaction cost of purchasing a property — it's significantly higher than in the UK. Think in terms of 10-15% transaction costs on top of property price for purchase costs. On a €100,000 property that's €10-15k up front in purchase costs, add more for selling costs. If that's not bad enough, also factor in that if you make a mistake in what you've bought or you decide you're in the wrong place or want to return home, you now have to find a buyer - not easy in Spain's current property market which is still very much a buyers market.

I'm sorry if I sound defeatist but I'm pragmatic — I like to consider worst case scenarios and if it turns out better than that it's a bonus.

My best advice to you is to do your research thoroughly, look at prices, look at transaction costs, look at rental costs and think about how long you might be there for and crunch the figures and see if it's doable or not.

To rent or buy really comes down to just how long you intend to spend in Spain — if it's likely to be less than about 5 years you're probably better off renting.


----------



## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

....... and then theres this thread, which should be taken into account when buying in Spain http://www.expatforum.com/expats/sp...anish-home-demolished-planning-officials.html


.......I'm sorry, it sounds like I'm nagging now lol!! Just remember knowledge is king!


Jo xxx


----------

