# Spanish permanent residency application -married to an EU citizen



## elishemaf (11 mo ago)

Hello, I'm a US citizen married to an EU citizen from Poland. I understand I can apply for permanent residency since my husband is a member of the EU, and that will allow me to work. I'm having trouble getting a straight answer to two questions. 1. Can I leave after I apply for my residency and then return. I find articles like this one that say I need to apply for a "“*autorización de regreso” *first. But I don't understand why I couldn't just re-enter on a tourist visa to pick finish the residency process once it's been approved. I can't just stop working for up to 60 days, so I need to return home in between. Or this takes me to my second question. 2) Can I 'legally' work in Spain after I submit my application for permanent residency. My employer will not sponsor me*, *and will only approve me working there if I can prove I'm authorized to work there.

I'm fine with either going there and applying, and then working while awaiting approval or going, applying, and then coming back to work while I await approval, but I keep getting different answers to these questions when I call the embassy in Spain or consulates in the US, and I can't even get a straight answer from immigration lawyers (they all have different responses). 

Has anyone been through this? TIA!


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

You can't apply for permanent residency even with an EU spouse until you have been in Spain for 5 years. What you can get is Spanish residency, by registering as family member of EU citizen. I suggest you go through an experienced gestor who will help you with the procedure, booking appointment and collecting supporting documents. It's a simple procedure and you get your registration card within a few weeks. You will get a certificate of application there and then, which can be used as evidence of your right to stay and work until your card is issued.
Registering non-EU family members - Acquiring residence - Residence - Citizens - Your rights and obligations in the EU - Tu espacio europeo - Punto de Acceso General (administracion.gob.es)


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## elishemaf (11 mo ago)

Thank you, Joppa! I appreciate the correction on the residency language. I didn't realize those were two different things. Do you have a recommendation on finding a gestor (is that the same as a lawyer)? It's interesting to hear you get the registration card within a few weeks. They tell you it can take up to 60 days. 

Do you have any documentation that shows that I get a certificate of application on the spot that shows that it gives you the right to work until the card is issued? that's the part I'm having a hard time finding documentation about, and my employer wants it. I've seen the page you linked, and I don't see that information there and keep getting mixed answers from embassy officials.

Thanks, again!


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## kalohi (May 6, 2012)

Every foreigner's office is different, and my experience and that of my friends here (Americans in Seville) has been that it takes months to process an initial residency application of an EU family member and to get the TIE card. You don't mention where you're heading so I can't comment on your area. 

On a different forum I remember the case of an American woman married to a Spaniard and who, like you, wanted to start working as soon as she sent in her residency application. It was a no-go from the start. She got a lawyer involved and even though he could show that the law was on her side they wouldn't issue her with a social security number (needed to work). By the time the lawyer was able to escalate it enough to be successful they had processed her residency application and she could work anyway. 

You'll find that Spanish government officials love shuffling paperwork around, and if you don't have exactly what they want at exactly the right moment they won't deal with you. And what the law says and what the reality is are sometimes two different things. Endless patience is required. 

BTW, you probably know but I'll mention it anyway - your husband will have to register as an EU citizen residing in Spain (AKA get 'residencia') before you'll be able to submit your residency application. Since your residency will depend on his, he has to be a legal resident first. 

And BTW2, you can't get an autorizacion de regreso until your residency application is approved (which as I said before, can take month here in Seville). It's designed for people with residency but without a physical TIE card. I really don't know if you can travel out of Spain while your residency application is being processed, but I don't see why not. As long as you are still within the 90 day Schengen Visa limit they should let you back in.


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## elishemaf (11 mo ago)

Thank you, Kalohi! We're planning to go to Alicante. Do you know how long it takes there? I'm also wondering how difficult it is to move the registration once it's completed. If we have to fly in just to register and leave, it would be easier to just go to a big city and do it and then leave, and then re-register when arrive in Alicante. I found a gestor that I've begun communicating with based on Joppa's, recommendation, so I can ask them some of this too. It's just confusing because every lawyer and other person talk to gives me a different answer. Probably because of what you mentioned about the shuffling of paperwork.

I did know my husband needed to register first. I did hear from some people that we can register at the same time, though. Do you know if that' true, Kalohi? or do I have to wait until his residencia goes through before I can submit my application? I assume he has to be with me when I apply, do know you if that's true? We have a 3 year old, and would like to stay as short as possible to do the original trip, so we're not both away from her for a long time.


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## kalohi (May 6, 2012)

elishemaf said:


> Thank you, Kalohi! We're planning to go to Alicante. Do you know how long it takes there? I'm also wondering how difficult it is to move the registration once it's completed. If we have to fly in just to register and leave, it would be easier to just go to a big city and do it and then leave, and then re-register when arrive in Alicante. I found a gestor that I've begun communicating with based on Joppa's, recommendation, so I can ask them some of this too. It's just confusing because every lawyer and other person talk to gives me a different answer. Probably because of what you mentioned about the shuffling of paperwork.
> 
> I did know my husband needed to register first. I did hear from some people that we can register at the same time, though. Do you know if that' true, Kalohi? or do I have to wait until his residencia goes through before I can submit my application? I assume he has to be with me when I apply, do know you if that's true? We have a 3 year old, and would like to stay as short as possible to do the original trip, so we're not both away from her for a long time.


I don't have any personal experience with the foreigner's office in Alicante but there are plenty of people on this forum who live in that area and can maybe chime in about how efficient they are. 

EU citizen registration is done on the spot so there's no waiting for that to go through at all. Your husband doesn't have to be with you when you apply, but you'll have to have copies (and originals??) of a lot of his paperwork.

You have to have an address when you apply, and you have to apply at the office that corresponds to that address. So you can't just fly in and apply in any big city. A lot of foreigner's offices require you to show proof of your address by turning in an empadronamiento certificate. 

Your child will also need to register/get residency, and will have to have her own appointment and be present for it.


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## elishemaf (11 mo ago)

Thanks again! I figured our child could just stay on a tourist visa for this trip, since we'll be there shorter than 90 days, and she has her own health insurance. We plan to stay for 90 days to see if we want to move there more permanently. But I want to work for my remote job while we're there to get a real sense for living there, which is why we're bothering to go through this process at all.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

elishemaf said:


> Thanks again! I figured our child could just stay on a tourist visa for this trip, since we'll be there shorter than 90 days, and she has her own health insurance. We plan to stay for 90 days to see if we want to move there more permanently. But I want to work for my remote job while we're there to get a real sense for living there, which is why we're bothering to go through this process at all.


Technically, you cannot work as a tourist, not even online, which you would be if not a registered resident, though many people do so while 'on holiday'. 

In your case, if wanting to live here, (Step 1), the EU citizen would need to register (exercising treaty rights) within 90 days of arrival, if planning to stay longer. It's a one-stop shop as long as all paperwork is in order. The EU registration card is issued on the spot. 

Then, (Step 2) once the EU national is registered, the non-EU spouse applies for residency as spouse of an EU national. This application has to be in before being in Spain for 90 days. It is usually straightforward as long as all paperwork is in order. It can take several months though, and again, while it's in process, legally, you can't work. 

Your child would either register or apply at step 1 or 2, depending on their nationality.

So you see, if your first visit is just to try things out, you could come for up to 90 days without registering. Then if you decide that you do want to live in Spain, you'd return home, get things organised, & 3 months later you'd be able to return to Spain to live, only then registering.


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## elishemaf (11 mo ago)

Thank you! I need to work while I'm there, which is why I'm registering in advance. It seems I have the answer to the question about working remotely after the application, and that's a no. I don't see a reason why they wouldn't let me leave and return on a tourist visa between applying and being approved. Can anyone tell me the steps involved in my residency application (the spouse of an EU national). I bring the paperwork and apply (it sounds like I can do that without my spouse present), and then what? They call me back in at some point in the future to get fingerprints and give me a residence card? Are there any interim appointments for which I'd need to be present between applying and being approved? Also, it seems the amount of time to get approved can fluctuate between a couple of weeks and a 60 days. If I go there 60 days prior to when we want to move permanently to apply, and the application is approved after just a few weeks, can I come back according to plan at the 60 days mark, and just leave my application in a waiting status between when it is approved and when I arrive? Or is there a time limit to coming in after they approve you?

Thank you all again!


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

elishemaf said:


> Thank you! I need to work while I'm there, which is why I'm registering in advance. It seems I have the answer to the question about working remotely after the application, and that's a no. I don't see a reason why they wouldn't let me leave and return on a tourist visa between applying and being approved. Can anyone tell me the steps involved in my residency application (the spouse of an EU national). I bring the paperwork and apply (it sounds like I can do that without my spouse present), and then what? They call me back in at some point in the future to get fingerprints and give me a residence card? Are there any interim appointments for which I'd need to be present between applying and being approved? Also, it seems the amount of time to get approved can fluctuate between a couple of weeks and a 60 days. If I go there 60 days prior to when we want to move permanently to apply, and the application is approved after just a few weeks, can I come back according to plan at the 60 days mark, and just leave my application in a waiting status between when it is approved and when I arrive? Or is there a time limit to coming in after they approve you?
> 
> Thank you all again!


Your spouse needs to be living in Spain before & during your application. Your 'rights' are dependent upon them exercising their treaty rights to live here.

It's recommended that you remain in Spain during the application process. The _autorización de regreso _that you mentioned previously can be applied for, but it isn't automatic that it would be issued. I've only heard of one being issued for exceptional circumstances. 


If you were to leave without one while your application was in process, it's possible that you could be denied re-entry if you had already been in Spain for more than 90/180 days. You can indeed stay in Spain beyond the 90/180 days while the application is in process, but not work until such time as you recieve your residence card. Only then do all of your rights as spouse of an EU citizen come into play.

This link, already posted by another member, gives you all the information about the process.






Registering non-EU family members - Acquiring residence - Residence - Citizens - Your rights and obligations in the EU - Tu espacio europeo - Inicio


Registering non-EU family members: application, deadline and the required documentation




administracion.gob.es





It actually states that you have to submit your original passport with your application.


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## elishemaf (11 mo ago)

Thanks again. I didn't expect that I'd have to submit my original passport. Just that I'd have to show it to them. I asked the Gestor just now, and they said you only submit photocopies. It seems that there aren't straight answers to some of these questions  Thanks all for your input to this point!


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

elishemaf said:


> Thanks again. I didn't expect that I'd have to submit my original passport. Just that I'd have to show it to them. I asked the Gestor just now, and they said you only submit photocopies. It seems that there aren't straight answers to some of these questions  Thanks all for your input to this point!


This is very typical of Spain! 

It really does depend on the extranjería on the day... and sometimes on the person on the desk.


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## elishemaf (11 mo ago)

Good to know!


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

You can use this lack of coherency in application of rules to your advantage. In the DGT (driver and vehicle licensing agency) I have rejoined the queue after being told that they couldn't process my request and at a different window the second time had no problem, within a space of an hour or so....


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## ALKB (Jan 20, 2012)

elishemaf said:


> Thank you! I need to work while I'm there, which is why I'm registering in advance. It seems I have the answer to the question about working remotely after the application, and that's a no. I don't see a reason why they wouldn't let me leave and return on a tourist visa between applying and being approved. Can anyone tell me the steps involved in my residency application (the spouse of an EU national). I bring the paperwork and apply (it sounds like I can do that without my spouse present), and then what? They call me back in at some point in the future to get fingerprints and give me a residence card? Are there any interim appointments for which I'd need to be present between applying and being approved? Also, it seems the amount of time to get approved can fluctuate between a couple of weeks and a 60 days. If I go there 60 days prior to when we want to move permanently to apply, and the application is approved after just a few weeks, can I come back according to plan at the 60 days mark, and just leave my application in a waiting status between when it is approved and when I arrive? Or is there a time limit to coming in after they approve you?
> 
> Thank you all again!


The EU Freedom of movement rules for non-EEA family members of EEA nationals were designed, so that EEA nationals would not be hindered in their ability to take up opportunities in EEA countries they do not hold nationality of. 

So, in the logic of this, it's your husband, the EU national, who wants to/needs to move to Spain to work, study or be self-sufficient. Any non-EEA family members are just coming along for the ride and in that logic shouldn't 'need' to do anything until their status as an non-EEA family member of an EU national who is exercising EU treaty rights has been determined. Of course, any of those directives were passed long before remote work was a thing that more than a handful of people could do. On the other hand, they are meant to allow work in the host country, not really to make it possible to work from the host country for an employer in a different country.

That's very often a tricky point to navigate (all across EU countries) when the non-EEA national is the breadwinner of the family, for example.

I have heard the argument before, that the non-EEA national should then apply for a work visa in their own right. I haven't heard any accounts of that from Spain, though.

What will your husband be doing during your stay in Spain?


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## elishemaf (11 mo ago)

ALKB said:


> The EU Freedom of movement rules for non-EEA family members of EEA nationals were designed, so that EEA nationals would not be hindered in their ability to take up opportunities in EEA countries they do not hold nationality of.
> 
> So, in the logic of this, it's your husband, the EU national, who wants to/needs to move to Spain to work, study or be self-sufficient. Any non-EEA family members are just coming along for the ride and in that logic shouldn't 'need' to do anything until their status as an non-EEA family member of an EU national who is exercising EU treaty rights has been determined. Of course, any of those directives were passed long before remote work was a thing that more than a handful of people could do. On the other hand, they are meant to allow work in the host country, not really to make it possible to work from the host country for an employer in a different country.
> 
> ...


He will also be working remotely for a international company. Both of our companies have Spanish entities already established, so if or when we decide we want to move their full time, it's a possibility for us.

I suspect at some point, with remote work, all these laws will be updated. We're not taking jobs from anyone, and we're bringing money to the Spanish economy, so I'm not sure what the disadvantage is to Spain.


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