# Free Healthcare for over 65's not in receipt of UK Pension?



## superslim (Feb 14, 2014)

Can anyone clarify for me please. Assume this scenario:- a British citizen coming to live in Spain permanently in 2014, aged 65 and with a full NI contribution record in the UK, but not in receipt of a UK state pension because he has chosen to defer it. 

Does he qualify for free healthcare in Spain, and if so, what documentation does he need to complete to access it?

Thanks ...


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

superslim said:


> Can anyone clarify for me please. Assume this scenario:- a British citizen coming to live in Spain permanently in 2014, aged 65 and with a full NI contribution record in the UK, but not in receipt of a UK state pension because he has chosen to defer it.
> 
> Does he qualify for free healthcare in Spain, and if so, what documentation does he need to complete to access it?
> 
> Thanks ...


no, he doesn't - assuming the UK stops issuing S1s to those not in receipt of a state pension at the end of this month, as has been reported.

he'd need private healthcare - then after 12 months as a registered resident he would be able to access state healthcare via the new _convenio especial _buy-in scheme


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## StevejR1 (May 21, 2013)

xabiachica said:


> no, he doesn't - assuming the UK stops issuing S1s to those not in receipt of a state pension at the end of this month, as has been reported.
> 
> he'd need private healthcare - then after 12 months as a registered resident he would be able to access state healthcare via the new _convenio especial _buy-in scheme


That is interesting....where do I find out about the new convenio especial buy-in scheme?

We plan to retire early in Spain, and assumed we'd have to get private medical insurance...but as we would be residents this may be very interesting


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Steve.R said:


> That is interesting....where do I find out about the new convenio especial buy-in scheme?
> 
> We plan to retire early in Spain, and assumed we'd have to get private medical insurance...but as we would be residents this may be very interesting


you _would _need private insurance for the first year - & although it will be available country wide eventually, it hasn't been activated everywhere yet

more info here https://www.gov.uk/healthcare-in-spain


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## StevejR1 (May 21, 2013)

xabiachica said:


> you _would _need private insurance for the first year - & although it will be available country wide eventually, it hasn't been activated everywhere yet
> 
> more info here https://www.gov.uk/healthcare-in-spain


Thank you  I've just been google'ing it, and was reading that you have to be a resident for a year. Costs seem to be about €60 a month?...which is slightly cheaper than some private healthcare quotes, and a lot cheaper than most!


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

Steve.R said:


> Thank you  I've just been google'ing it, and was reading that you have to be a resident for a year. Costs seem to be about €60 a month?...which is slightly cheaper than some private healthcare quotes, and a lot cheaper than most!


That's per person of course.

Don't forget to look at SPANISH private healthcare companies. Just because BUPA (or similar) operate in Spain, does not make them Spanish and certainly not the cheapest.


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## StevejR1 (May 21, 2013)

snikpoh said:


> That's per person of course.
> 
> Don't forget to look at SPANISH private healthcare companies. Just because BUPA (or similar) operate in Spain, does not make them Spanish and certainly not the cheapest.


Yes I realised that was per person 

We have had a few quotes...the one from Bupa, and its Spanish counterpart came in very high...around €200-240 per month for us both..off the top of my head. We got a quote from a Spanish private healthcare provider, and that was around €140 per month for us both. I have to apologies that I don't know the company names as Giulia deals with that side of things, I just get the info and the figures 

However....3 years ago I had a cycling accident and fractured my acetabulum, basically smashing my hip ball through the socket (very painful!). It is 'healed' in effect, and I was discharged from care two months ago. It is a gradually deteriorating condition, which will get worse in old age (I'm 47) and may eventually need a new hip (even the NHS won't do that until I'm 60ish). I get on with things ok-ish now, but it's a hindrance, and it's one of the main reasons for the move to Spain, hoping that the warmer climate will improve matters.

However, I've not disclosed any of this when submitting enquiries for any quotes yet, and I'm expecting an increase in premiums and/or an exclusion of anything related to the injury. That's why the "all existing conditions are covered" aspect of the Spanish scheme is very reassuring


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## Dunpleecin (Dec 20, 2012)

Could someone please post a link to where it is reported that S1s are being phased out?

Can't find it with a google.


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## Aron (Apr 30, 2013)

Dunpleecin said:


> Could someone please post a link to where it is reported that S1s are being phased out?
> 
> Can't find it with a google.


Spain's UK expats to lose free NHS health care - The Local

Not sure I got the correct URL


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Dunpleecin said:


> Could someone please post a link to where it is reported that S1s are being phased out?
> 
> Can't find it with a google.





Aron said:


> Spain's UK expats to lose free NHS health care - The Local
> 
> Not sure I got the correct URL


also *cambio *who posts here was told by the DWP & managed to bring their plans to move here forward, so that they would be able to get S1s


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## Madliz (Feb 4, 2011)

Last year a male friend aged 55 got the top level of cover from Sanitas for €50-odd a month. I don't recall definitely if previous conditions were covered but I believe they were. 

I am also with Sanitas and cannot praise them highly enough. My husband's cancer treatment was totally covered - all the many scans and 14 hospitalisations - so I have seen it at first hand. Be advised that their policies renew each January 1st and cancellation (like most types of insurance here) must be done two months before the policy end or you will be committed to paying for another whole year.


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## StevejR1 (May 21, 2013)

Madliz said:


> Last year a male friend aged 55 got the top level of cover from Sanitas for €50-odd a month. I don't recall definitely if previous conditions were covered but I believe they were.
> 
> I am also with Sanitas and cannot praise them highly enough. My husband's cancer treatment was totally covered - all the many scans and 14 hospitalisations - so I have seen it at first hand. Be advised that their policies renew each January 1st and cancellation (like most types of insurance here) must be done two months before the policy end or you will be committed to paying for another whole year.


I'm sure Sanitas was our best quote..about €100-120 I think for the two of us. It's great to hear that as well as having reasonable rates their service is good too


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## Dunpleecin (Dec 20, 2012)

Thanks for posting the links.


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## Aron (Apr 30, 2013)

superslim said:


> Can anyone clarify for me please. Assume this scenario:- a British citizen coming to live in Spain permanently in 2014, aged 65 and with a full NI contribution record in the UK, but not in receipt of a UK state pension because he has chosen to defer it.
> 
> Does he qualify for free healthcare in Spain, and if so, what documentation does he need to complete to access it?
> 
> Thanks ...


Why would someone defer a pension if they were intending on moving to another country, especially as it will cost money for healthcare. I understand the reasoning behind deferring a pension if you intend on working beyond retirement age, though personally I wouldn't do it. As the question was just about a scenario and not actually an event, it just crossed my mind as to why it would be beneficial.


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## superslim (Feb 14, 2014)

Aron said:


> Why would someone defer a pension if they were intending on moving to another country, especially as it will cost money for healthcare. I understand the reasoning behind deferring a pension if you intend on working beyond retirement age, though personally I wouldn't do it. As the question was just about a scenario and not actually an event, it just crossed my mind as to why it would be beneficial.


Actually I was trying to find the answer to my 'problem' without having to explain a more complicated situation, and the hypothetical scenario was easy to describe and gave me the information I needed to move things on.

If you are interested, situation is as follows:- Early retiree, Spanish tax resident for 10 yrs, fed up with paying increasingly expensive private health insurance and for the exclusions contained in the cover so became autonomo 3 yrs ago purely to access the healthcare system (we are in a rural area and have enough land to qualify as an agricultural worker, although what we earn from it over the course of a year might just about feed the dogs for 6 months, if we're lucky), recently turned 65 and wants to defer UK state pension to improve income in later years. However as I don't want to take the pension now I find that I don't get an S1, and therefore in limbo as to how I qualify for healthcare. As there will be a Spanish element to my pension (albeit very small) I have to apply through the Spanish system. They send the application to the UK and as part of that request details about my eligibility to free healthcare. I guess it all depends on the questions they ask and what answer they are looking for. If I cancel my autonomo payment now that I am over 65 I could jeopardise our healthcare; if I continue to pay it and the conclusion is that we aren't eligible through the 'pensions' route then I won't be able to reclaim the payments I've made from this point. We would qualify under the new 2012 arrangements as we meet that criteria except that we can't apply for it at this stage as we have healthcare arrangements via the autonomo payment. So I was just trying to find out whether I would have an entitlement without an S1 ... looks like I haven't and might have to bite the bullet and shell out several more months' contributions for the autonomo payment while the application is processed, considered, reviewed, declined ...

Confused?


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## Aron (Apr 30, 2013)

superslim said:


> Actually I was trying to find the answer to my 'problem' without having to explain a more complicated situation, and the hypothetical scenario was easy to describe and gave me the information I needed to move things on.
> 
> If you are interested, situation is as follows:- Early retiree, Spanish tax resident for 10 yrs, fed up with paying increasingly expensive private health insurance and for the exclusions contained in the cover so became autonomo 3 yrs ago purely to access the healthcare system (we are in a rural area and have enough land to qualify as an agricultural worker, although what we earn from it over the course of a year might just about feed the dogs for 6 months, if we're lucky), recently turned 65 and wants to defer UK state pension to improve income in later years. However as I don't want to take the pension now I find that I don't get an S1, and therefore in limbo as to how I qualify for healthcare. As there will be a Spanish element to my pension (albeit very small) I have to apply through the Spanish system. They send the application to the UK and as part of that request details about my eligibility to free healthcare. I guess it all depends on the questions they ask and what answer they are looking for. If I cancel my autonomo payment now that I am over 65 I could jeopardise our healthcare; if I continue to pay it and the conclusion is that we aren't eligible through the 'pensions' route then I won't be able to reclaim the payments I've made from this point. We would qualify under the new 2012 arrangements as we meet that criteria except that we can't apply for it at this stage as we have healthcare arrangements via the autonomo payment. So I was just trying to find out whether I would have an entitlement without an S1 ... looks like I haven't and might have to bite the bullet and shell out several more months' contributions for the autonomo payment while the application is processed, considered, reviewed, declined ...
> 
> Confused?


Thank you for answering and explaining.


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## superslim (Feb 14, 2014)

Just a quick update, in case this is of help to anyone. Despite my expectation that free healthcare wouldn't be available (note: age 65 but deferring UK pension, Spanish tax resident, full contribution record in the UK, small entitlement to Spanish pension having been registered for 30 months as autonomo) having applied through the Spanish system the confirmation has come back that healthcare is applicable to me as a pensioner and a healthcare card duly issued with pensioner status. Pleasantly surprised!


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## extranjero (Nov 16, 2012)

StevejR1 said:


> Thank you  I've just been google'ing it, and was reading that you have to be a resident for a year. Costs seem to be about €60 a month?...which is slightly cheaper than some private healthcare quotes, and a lot cheaper than most!


I think you'll find that if you are over 65, you'll pay 175 euros a month to the convenio especial.
Normally people of 65 are in receipt of the state pension, so would be entitled to free care.
As the retirement age in UK keeps creeping up, this is going to be a factor to consider if retiring here before receiving the state pension.


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## extranjero (Nov 16, 2012)

superslim said:


> Just a quick update, in case this is of help to anyone. Despite my expectation that free healthcare wouldn't be available (note: age 65 but deferring UK pension, Spanish tax resident, full contribution record in the UK, small entitlement to Spanish pension having been registered for 30 months as autonomo) having applied through the Spanish system the confirmation has come back that healthcare is applicable to me as a pensioner and a healthcare card duly issued with pensioner status. Pleasantly surprised!


Is that because you paid into the system in Spain?
How would someone fare who moved here straight from the UK, aged 65, and not receiving a state pension because he deferred it?


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

extranjero said:


> Is that because you paid into the system in Spain?
> How would someone fare who moved here straight from the UK, aged 65, and not receiving a state pension because he deferred it?


I don't understand how he has managed this - unless he was resident before the magic April 24th 2012

if he _does _have healthcare without this, without an S1 or without having paid into the system here, the rules are very clear that he shouldn't & at some point someone will realise that there's been a mistake

superslim - do any of those scenarios apply - & if not - do you have a _permanent _tarjeta sanitaria?

*edit - just read a previous post*

of course if you were tax resident & resident for 10 years, superslim, you are entitled to free healthcare


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Don't forget that if you draw a Spanish OAP, you are not allowed to continue working.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

baldilocks said:


> Don't forget that if you draw a Spanish OAP, you are not allowed to continue working.


someone I know who works here, although past 'retirement age', mentioned to me that he didn't undersatnd why he wasn't getting his UK pension, even though he should have got it a couple of years ago

because he last worked here in Spain (in fact still works, as I said) he had to apply via Spain & he would also be entitled to a Spanish pension, in fact

no-one told him - not even his gestor - that the system in Spain won't activate his pension while he's still working......

he's only working because without his pension he _has to _- & he's afraid to stop in case there's a problem with his pension ..........


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## superslim (Feb 14, 2014)

xabiachica said:


> I don't understand how he has managed this - unless he was resident before the magic April 24th 2012
> 
> if he _does _have healthcare without this, without an S1 or without having paid into the system here, the rules are very clear that he shouldn't & at some point someone will realise that there's been a mistake
> 
> ...


I'm sorry this is a little confusing. The point I am trying to make is that although there was a tarjeta sanitaria in place (due to autonomo status) once autonomo status was cancelled and payments stopped on reaching 65, healthcare was only provided for an initial period of 3 months (then extended to 5) while the pension application was considered by the UK. It took a bit longer than thought but eventually written confirmation has been received from Spain that the application has been successful and "Pensioner" status has been applied to the existing tarjeta sanitaria (I can confirm this is indeed the case, having been to obtain prescription medication from the farmacia and having received the appropriate discount). Of course if the authorities had declined to offer the healthcare as a result of the pension application via the UK, we would have had to re-apply via the 'new' arrangements for those tax resident before April 2012, but we have not had to do this. Specifically, without being in receipt of a UK pension (because it has been deferred) we have been able to qualify for free healthcare. I can't be certain whether this is because we have worked out here and therefore needed to apply for the UK pension (albeit deferred - the thing we wanted was the healthcare) via Spain or whether it would in fact be the same for someone leaving the UK for Spain at 65 and deferring their pension.

It has taken several trips to the local Social Security office, several 'phone calls to the UK pension service and a trip to the department of the INSS that deals with autonomo status and about 8 months in total to move this forward, but it is now resolved favourably. Because of the problems we had initially with the application we asked the UK to send us all the information they sent to Spain so we could see exactly what was being communicated and have copies of this documentation - we can see what was requested from Spain and what was sent back from UK.

Am not trying to be clever, just posted this because I thought it might help someone else.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

superslim said:


> I'm sorry this is a little confusing. The point I am trying to make is that although there was a tarjeta sanitaria in place (due to autonomo status) once autonomo status was cancelled and payments stopped on reaching 65, healthcare was only provided for an initial period of 3 months (then extended to 5) while the pension application was considered by the UK. It took a bit longer than thought but eventually written confirmation has been received from Spain that the application has been successful and "Pensioner" status has been applied to the existing tarjeta sanitaria (I can confirm this is indeed the case, having been to obtain prescription medication from the farmacia and having received the appropriate discount). Of course if the authorities had declined to offer the healthcare as a result of the pension application via the UK, we would have had to re-apply via the 'new' arrangements for those tax resident before April 2012, but we have not had to do this. Specifically, without being in receipt of a UK pension (because it has been deferred) we have been able to qualify for free healthcare. I can't be certain whether this is because we have worked out here and therefore needed to apply for the UK pension (albeit deferred - the thing we wanted was the healthcare) via Spain or whether it would in fact be the same for someone leaving the UK for Spain at 65 and deferring their pension.
> 
> It has taken several trips to the local Social Security office, several 'phone calls to the UK pension service and a trip to the department of the INSS that deals with autonomo status and about 8 months in total to move this forward, but it is now resolved favourably. Because of the problems we had initially with the application we asked the UK to send us all the information they sent to Spain so we could see exactly what was being communicated and have copies of this documentation - we can see what was requested from Spain and what was sent back from UK.
> 
> Am not trying to be clever, just posted this because I thought it might help someone else.


you'd been working - so it was clear that you had been here & in the system for that time

it probably would have been easier for you if you had applied as a straightforward 'been here since before April 2012' with the legislation letter from the UK tbh

everyone I know who has done this has had it sorted out more or less on the spot


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## superslim (Feb 14, 2014)

xabiachica said:


> you'd been working - so it was clear that you had been here & in the system for that time
> 
> it probably would have been easier for you if you had applied as a straightforward 'been here since before April 2012' with the legislation letter from the UK tbh
> 
> everyone I know who has done this has had it sorted out more or less on the spot


Don't quite understand the point you are making xabiachica.

The information I am trying to share is this:-

We had previously believed that by deferring our UK state pension, we would not be eligible for healthcare under the "Pensioner" classification. The fact that we would qualify if we applied under the April 2012 legislation is immaterial. The guy at the local Social Security office dissuaded us from applying via the April 2012 legislation because he said that there were benefits of being classed as "Pensioners" which we wouldn't have been if we had gone down the April 2012 route. Although we were sceptical (and clearly would have applied through the April 2012 route if necessary) we stuck with the process and have now got this concluded.

The reason I have posted this is that I wanted to help other people thinking they might want to defer their UK state pension but believing that they couldn't qualify for healthcare because they didn't have an S1.

Thanks for reading


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## extranjero (Nov 16, 2012)

superslim said:


> Don't quite understand the point you are making xabiachica.
> 
> The information I am trying to share is this:-
> 
> ...


The point is, were you granted free healthcare because you had worked in Spain?
If other people of 65 retire to Spain and are not receiving a state pension, either because their pension age has been raised to 67( in which case they are not State pensioners) or because they have deferred it, will they get fee health care.
In other words is it the age-65- or the status of receiving a state pension which entitles them to free care?


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

superslim said:


> Don't quite understand the point you are making xabiachica.
> 
> The information I am trying to share is this:-
> 
> ...


I see what you mean now - but am still a little confused I think....

had you not already lived here & paid tax & NI here you wouldn't have qualified for free healthcare under any circumstances

anyone coming now as a early retiree (whether deferring pension or not yet qualified) won't get an S1 & will have to pay for private healthcare 

you qualify for healthcare here because of your long term resident/previous worker status - the pensioner status is an added bonus


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