# I need a bump in the right direction finding the town



## volatyle (Jan 23, 2018)

Hi forum,

Me and my family have been discussing moving to Spain in a couple of years. We want to "try it" either this or next summer, so we'll be looking for a place to rent first.

I'm feeling a bit ambivalent of the which area (south Spain, so basically Costa Blanca, Costa Del Sol and so on) we should go to though. And I feel it's time to take help from people who actually knows their way around these areas and have been to numerous cities.

I want to be clear first, with what it is we're looking for. South Spain is a must, it has to be "warm" all year around with 300+ sun days. That itself is a requirement that tons of cities will fulfill, but here's where it gets harder;

I want the town to feel authentic, and Spanish - I want it to be lively even in winters, and as little tourists as possible. I want to be able to eat real Spanish and GOOD food and I do NOT want to be in a town where all menus are in my own language serving my own type of food.

Now, before you shoot me down here I am well aware that what I am asking is virtually impossible looking at the south coast of spain. But it's not all black and white right? To illustrate a bit further of what I am looking for - I have been to one town in South of Spain - namely Torrevieja. This was hands down - one of the worst experiences I've ever had. I was devastated about how bad everything was there, not even one restaurant served decent food - and it felt like a ghost town in some areas. So, to sum it up - I am looking for the *opposite* of Torrevieja.

So, I started asking around - and here's where it got confusing. A colleague of mine said to me "What you're looking for is a town called Altea - it's a hidden gem" - I googled around, seemed pretty nice and then months later I discussed the very same topic with another dear friend of mine which I know have been around the area a lot. So I asked him about Altea, which I had been recommended.

His response? Well, he said big no no to Altea, and instead pointed me towards a town called Javea (Xabia) which he said really is as "real spain" you can find if we're narrowed down to just look at the south coast.

I googled around about Javea and could find some reviews confirming what he said, that it was really a hidden gem. But lately, I've been finding more and more posts that Javea is not all that hidden and that it's been exploited by tourists for quite some time.

So, back to square 1 I guess. As mentioned, now I am going to take help from the Forum to push me in the right direction. I hope I am picturing what kind of town we're looking for - I don't mind if it's small, as long as it feels somewhat Authentic, and it's not overly exploited. Was Altea and Javea good recommendations, or would you say there are towns that better suit our needs? If so, what towns would you recommend?

Thank you for taking the time and reading this post.

Vol


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## Salonica (Feb 28, 2014)

*Cabo de Palos*

I highly recommend Cabo de Palos in Murcia. Very authentic Spanish. Great restaurants too. The only drawback might be that it’s a bit dead in the winter. After going there for many years, I finally bought an apartment there. There are no high rise hotels either. The tourists are mainly Spanish. Have a look at it.


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## davexf (Jan 26, 2009)

Hola 

When you've exhausted all the candidates; try Cádiz. It is not anything but Spanish. 

Davexf


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## tebo53 (Sep 18, 2014)

volatyle said:


> Hi forum,
> 
> I'm feeling a bit ambivalent of the which area (south Spain, so basically Costa Blanca, Costa Del Sol and so on) we should go to though.
> 
> ...


You say Southern Spain "is a must" 

Costa Blanca is northern Spain, as is Altea and more so Javea!!

All the coastal towns on the Costa Blanca coast are very much designed for tourists. Benidorm, Finestrat, La Cala, Albea, Altea, Calpe and Javea are all very nice towns in their own right and have plenty to offer but each of these towns/cities make their money from tourism. As there are more and more expats now living in Spain, and wanting to live in the "Spanish" towns, within a few more years you will probably find expats living on every corner!!

You will probably need to look well inland to find towns with few expats. You seriously need to ask yourself what you want out of life here in Spain. A lot of small Spanish towns virtually close down throughout the winter period and some have no bus services .

Best of luck though 

Steve


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## kalohi (May 6, 2012)

Everywhere you go along the Mediterranean/Atlantic coast of "southern" Spain will be touristy. EVERYWHERE. Foreigners and Spaniards alike have been flocking to these areas for decades, and tourism is crucial for their economies. There is no place that is undiscovered. 

Obviously there are coastal towns where Spaniards live year round, but they co-exist with tourists, especially in the summer months. 

So either you accept the fact that you will have to share your town with tourists, or you move inland. The further west and north you go, the less likely there will be tourists.

I live in a town 8 km west of Seville. No tourists here - and menus all in Spanish! The same can be said of nearly all of the inland towns in Cadiz, Huelva, Seville, Cordoba, Jaen...

And by the way, it does get cold in southern Spain in the winter despite the fact that there are many days of sun. There are lots of posts here that talk about just that. 

You really need to come here in January and have an exploratory look around.


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## Horlics (Sep 27, 2011)

Hi Op,

A couple of things. 

Would you go inland, because if not, you're going to find that the entire coast of Spain attracts tourists.

Altea's OK but it's packed with foreigners, so expect "cosmopolitan" as they say, not Spanish.

I live in Javea so I can get into detail about what it's like. Firstly, like most places, it's rammed with tourists in July and August. Most tourists it gets come from Madrid and Valencia, plenty of English too. To give you an idea, 30,000ish permanent residents, rising to 120,000 during the peak season. about 8000 non-Spanish registered who live there.

Somebody mentioned Cadiz earlier, that's a good recommendation (although also packed in the summer).

Have a look at Gandia.

Also, you say it's you and family but it's not clear whether that's you and wife, or kids too. A younger couple with kids have a whole load of different things to think about. But, if it's you and your wife, are you all equally committed to learning the language? I like Javea because my wife, who understands a lot of Spanish but can't yet speak it very well, can get on just fine. I'd live up a hill in the middle of nowhere and be fine but I know she would be very uncomfortable doing that.


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## cermignano (Feb 9, 2017)

Spanish houses can be freezing in winter. When the sun is out, it is warmer outside during the day than inside. All areas have their rainy spells (pouring) and some have severe winds.
Have a look at Antequera, Olvera, Martos and the above mentioned. There are lots of very picturesque reasonably sized villages inland as well. Beautiful with safe communities. Very hot in summer and warm springs and autumns. Velez-Malaga is near the coast and Malaga airport.


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## Williams2 (Sep 15, 2013)

volatyle said:


> Hi forum,
> 
> Me and my family have been discussing moving to Spain in a couple of years. We want to "try it" either this or next summer, so we'll be looking for a place to rent first.
> 
> ...


Probably more important and you say you have family, no doubt wanting the right to work and other EU rights . . . 

Move this summer before the Brexit drawbridge ( as regards your inherited & acquired EU rights ) goes up in smoke !!


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## volatyle (Jan 23, 2018)

Wasn't really expecting that many replies. Thanks everyone for your valuable input.
I also realize that I've been somewhat unclear in my post. I am well aware that all coastal towns will be tourist packed - but as mentioned, I am sure there are worse and there are better. For example, I strongly believe Torrevieja is as "bad" as you can go, but I am positive there are some better towns.

So, to be clear, I am fine with tourists, even if it's packed with tourists. I just want a slight more authentic feeling and more importantly I want to be able to find restaurants serving decent food, close to the same quality I'd get in a regular Spanish city, such as Madrid. I would especially appreciate if the tourists came from Spain more than they came from Sweden - if you get my drift 

Are Altea and Javea good suggestions in terms of getting somewhat more authentic than that hideous place Torrevieja (Sorry for being clear, I know I might upset a few people here that lives/likes Torrevieja)

Or would you say there are even better towns? What about Denia?


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## tebo53 (Sep 18, 2014)

volatyle said:


> Wasn't really expecting that many replies. Thanks everyone for your valuable input.
> I also realize that I've been somewhat unclear in my post. I am well aware that all coastal towns will be tourist packed - but as mentioned, I am sure there are worse and there are better. For example, I strongly believe Torrevieja is as "bad" as you can go, but I am positive there are some better towns.
> 
> So, to be clear, I am fine with tourists, even if it's packed with tourists. I just want a slight more authentic feeling and more importantly I want to be able to find restaurants serving decent food, close to the same quality I'd get in a regular Spanish city, such as Madrid. I would especially appreciate if the tourists came from Spain more than they came from Sweden - if you get my drift
> ...


Yes, best to ask specific questions then you will get better information!!

Altea is a nice town and seems to have plenty of cafes/bars/restaurants/shops in the town area. The promenade and beaches are very clean and looked after. There are plenty of expats who live there and packed with holidaymakers in summer. Good bus services to neighbouring towns of Albea and Benidorm etc.

Javea.......I've never visited but understand it's busier in general throughout the holiday season.

I had a short break in Denia and found it rather an uninteresting town. We were there in October last year and most bars and restaurants were closing from 9pm onwards. The town is nice but after you have visited the harbour there is not much more to see. The main tapas street is excellent though.

Steve


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

I've lived full time in Jávea for just over 14 years now. I lived in the port for most of those years, & loved living there. Most of our neighbours were Spanish & although we heard English spoken on the street, it's still very 'Spanish' there, with quite a lot of the bars, restaurants & shops having no English speaking staff.

Yes there are tourists all year round in Jávea, but if you stay away from the Arenal, you barely notice them except in high season.

I recently moved to the 'old town', or the 'village', & it's a different world. VERY few Brits or any other foreigners live in this part of Jávea - almost everyone is local Spanish - to the extent that the most commonly heard language on the street is actually Valenciano. 

So yes, Jávea isn't exactly hidden any more - & thank goodness, because tourism is pretty much the only industry here. But it is still a gem, & if you want to live 'Spanish' it's certainly possible to do so.


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## volatyle (Jan 23, 2018)

xabiachica said:


> I've lived full time in Jávea for just over 14 years now. I lived in the port for most of those years, & loved living there. Most of our neighbours were Spanish & although we heard English spoken on the street, it's still very 'Spanish' there, with quite a lot of the bars, restaurants & shops having no English speaking staff.
> 
> Yes there are tourists all year round in Jávea, but if you stay away from the Arenal, you barely notice them except in high season.
> 
> ...


Sounds like my friend might've been right about Javea then! He laughed when I told him about Torrevieja and basically said "Javea" is the place to go if I want the opposite of that.

I really like your description. Where exactly is the "Village" located in Javea? I'm trying to figure out on google maps.

Thank you!

Vol


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

volatyle said:


> Sounds like my friend might've been right about Javea then! He laughed when I told him about Torrevieja and basically said "Javea" is the place to go if I want the opposite of that.
> 
> I really like your description. Where exactly is the "Village" located in Javea? I'm trying to figure out on google maps.
> 
> ...


More or less within the red circle on this map. Click it to enlarge it.









What I love most about Jávea, is that it's possible to live in a very 'Spanish' area, yet still have very easy access to a more international flavour, so you can get a curry or a decent Chinese, Thai, Italian etc., meal, & also for newcomers, there's a nucleus of English speakers & English speaking services, should they need them.

And a few Swedes, too I believe


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Just checked - 83 Swedes on the padrón in 2016. 2017 figures haven't been released yet.


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## Horlics (Sep 27, 2011)

Also, about Javea.... I would say that the majority of full time English residents speak bar & restaurant & supermarket Spanish. They make the effort to make sure that they can communicate in such places. Most of the non-English foreigners I know speak Spanish at an advanced level. Which all means.... if you sit in a restaurant they'll initially speak to you in Spanish, and in some places will struggle a bit with English when they work out that you're not understanding them.


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

Williams2 said:


> Probably more important and you say you have family, no doubt wanting the right to work and other EU rights . . .
> 
> Move this summer before the Brexit drawbridge ( as regards your inherited & acquired EU rights ) goes up in smoke !!


Why is Sweden leaving as well!


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## Williams2 (Sep 15, 2013)

Megsmum said:


> Why is Sweden leaving as well!


Oops :lol: :lol: Bring back Abba and Sven-Goran Eriksson !!


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## stevesainty (Jan 7, 2011)

Not your fault volatile, but I am sick and fed up with people dissing my home town of Torrevieja without knowing the full facts, only hearsay and rumour.

The Torrevieja that you are describing is probably not the actual town but the heavily English and Irish dominated area to the south of the town where you are hard pressed to find anything Spanish.

The real Torrevieja town is teaming with good Spanish restaurants and bars, most of the population in the town itself is Spanish. If you go even two streets away from the sea you will need to speak some Spanish or you will not easily be understood.

Anyway, rant over we do not need bigoted people coming here so stay away and leave we residents to enjoy the pleasures of our super town.


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## The Skipper (Nov 26, 2014)

tebo53 said:


> You say Southern Spain "is a must"
> 
> Costa Blanca is northern Spain, as is Altea and more so Javea!!



I don´t think so! I´ve heard it described as South East Spain or just Eastern Spain but never northern Spain. Javea is 565km south of Gerona, Cataluña, and Torrevieja is 666km south of Gerona!


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

The Skipper said:


> I don´t think so! I´ve heard it described as South East Spain or just Eastern Spain but never northern Spain. Javea is 565km south of Gerona, Cataluña, and Torrevieja is 666km south of Gerona!


It is south of Valencia city, so definitely in the southern half of the country. Maybe they were confusing it with the Costa Brava!


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## tebo53 (Sep 18, 2014)

The Skipper said:


> I don´t think so! I´ve heard it described as South East Spain or just Eastern Spain but never northern Spain. Javea is 565km south of Gerona, Cataluña, and Torrevieja is 666km south of Gerona!



Yes, having had a closer look at the maps it is more like eastern Spain but I wouldn't describe it as southern. I've always thought of Southern Spain as Murcia to Gibraltar.


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## kalohi (May 6, 2012)

tebo53 said:


> Yes, having had a closer look at the maps it is more like eastern Spain but I wouldn't describe it as southern. I've always thought of Southern Spain as Murcia to Gibraltar.


As far as I know the southern coast doesn't stop at Gibraltar. Cadiz? Huelva? 

Ahh, the forgotten corner of Spain...


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## The Skipper (Nov 26, 2014)

tebo53 said:


> Yes, having had a closer look at the maps it is more like eastern Spain but I wouldn't describe it as southern. I've always thought of Southern Spain as Murcia to Gibraltar.


I hate to be pedantic but if you drew a line from west to east through the centre of Spain the Costa Blanca would be in the southern half! But never mind, I know where you are coming from ... when I lived in London everyone thought that The North started at Watford!


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

The Skipper said:


> I hate to be pedantic but if you drew a line from west to east through the centre of Spain the Costa Blanca would be in the southern half! But never mind, I know where you are coming from ... *when I lived in London everyone thought that The North started at Watford!*


Are you suggesting that it doesn't? 

To me living in Northern Andalucía, the Costa Blanca is North.


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## Williams2 (Sep 15, 2013)

baldilocks said:


> Are you suggesting that it doesn't?
> 
> To me living in Northern Andalucía, the Costa Blanca is North.


Well living in Asturias your all southerners to me.
The only northerners I can take the mickey out of ( and frequently do ) are those dastardly Brexiteers who live in 
Brexit Britain.


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## Kikie (Nov 7, 2008)

How warm is warm enough? Everything hangs on that really.

We have been living in Costa Blanca north (inland from Javea) for 14 months, so through 2 winters. It gets COLD here. Our first house was 330 metres up and we had heavy snow last year (ok its rare!), and strong winds. Where we are now, closer to sea level, it drops to a few degrees above freezing at night. Having said that, daytime in winter with sunshine and temperatures in their teens can be pleasant. OUTSIDE and out of any wind. Inside is another matter. Spanish houses are not built for winter and it frequently feels warmer outside than in. Some people are fine with a single fire place and lots of woollies but we came here to feel warm so wanted full on central heating for winter. And electricity costs are horrendous, gas not much better. Its costing us over E400 a month for utilities with 4 bedrooms, despite leaving systems turned off in the 2 spare unused rooms. People say pellet stoves are better, though we cant use them for health reasons.

You may have more options buying but we found it was incredibly difficult getting a long term rental with full heating, no signs of mould and damp (ridiculously common), well built, for less than E1500 a month. I think the best properties, built to better standards, only hit the short term market as they can charge hugely more. 

We love Javea but for E1500 there we couldn't get the quality we wanted, for 3 bedrooms, with a garden, heating and a/c. Moraira the same. Both loads of expats but a nice feel. Personally we found Javea more attractive than Denia but Denia is more Spanish. Loads of expats on the outskirts though. Altea didnt grab us. 

We also looked further south, quite liking Elche. Less expats. There are pros and cons to having more expats around. The further south the warmer of course, but also less green. Personally I liked Cadiz but that was a brief visit years ago.

There is a way you can check out some of these places without leaving home. Set aside a few hours, bring up Google maps or google earth, go to street view and 'drive' yourself around, through the main streets, the urbanizations and some rural areas.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Everywhere in Spain is 'Spanish'. Benidorm is as Spanish as the most remote flyblown pueblo.
It's a different kind of Spanish, that's all. Does anyone doubt that Blackpool is English?

If you are intent on finding this imaginary 'real Spain' perhaps you should head for Madrid, Barcelona, Seville, Bilbao or any big city. After all, that's where a majority of Spaniards live and like all modern cities, they are cosmoplitan and proudly so.

Spain is a huge country with many varieties of scenery, culture, language even. All are equally 'real'. Ten foreigners in a village or small town will have more impact than ten thousand in a city. Like every other country in the age of globalisation, even the remotest hamlet bears some trace of homogeneity. Satellite dishes and Coca Cola (and, sadly, coke) everywhere nowadays.

Some years ago we were hiking in a remote part of rural Andalucia and got lost. Twice we asked for directions and each time the stranger we approached was British. We guiris get everywhere and wherever we go we dilute, even by the tiniest amount.
But so what? I'm sure the Spanish population of Benidorm or of Torrevieja feel Spanish and live a Spanish lifestyle and culture in spite of the large number of Northern Europeans. 
I live in a village where the centre is almost exclusively Spanish but which over the ten years I've lived here has seen a lot of construction on the fringes by the motorway where Northern Europeans, wealthy Arabs and Spaniards from other parts of Spain have settled. My neighbourhood is still Spanish but in thirty mnutes or so I can drive to an equally pleasant town where the population is largely British or Scandinavian. Thirty more minutes in the other direction and I'm in a larger very cosmopolitan town. Thirty minutes north and I'm in deep sierra.
This variety is what makes my life here so interesting and enjoyable.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

stevesainty said:


> Not your fault volatile, but I am sick and fed up with people dissing my home town of Torrevieja without knowing the full facts, only hearsay and rumour.
> 
> The Torrevieja that you are describing is probably not the actual town but the heavily English and Irish dominated area to the south of the town where you are hard pressed to find anything Spanish.
> 
> ...


Well said.
Some immigrants go to great lengths to avoid other immigrant it seems. Christopher Columbus syndrome, perhaps? As in, setting foot on pure virgin Spanish land

There is a village in Suffolk, Lavenham, which is unspoilt Tudor England. Half timbered houses dating back centuries, oak beams everywhere, a truly beautiful place. We used to spend happy Sunday outings there.
It attracts many tourists who I'm sure like to go back home reminiscing about the 'real England' they found in this gem of a village untouched by time and modernity.
But it isn't 'real' England. It's a museum, preserved, intentionally and carefully preserved. 'Real' England is Birmngham, London, Hull, Basildon, Bristol.

I'm not a fan of big cities although I enjoyed years of living in London. Torrevieja isn't for me because it's too big, too lively. But millions of tourists from Spain and all over love it and I can see why. I'm older and I prefer smaller, quieter. Whether my neighbours are Spanish, Scandinavian, British or whatever doesn't affect my life here because it's my life in my Spain and very real to me.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Incidentally, Steve, I visited Torrevieja in the early 1960s, can't remember the exact year. It was a tiny village, undeveloped. I remember salt flats and orange groves. I was a student traveling around Spain with very little money. We stayed in a small pension which was basic but clean and comfortable and we ate delicious meals and which was unbelievably cheap.
I've got some old, fading photos of that trip somewhere, driving down the east coast across to Granada to Madrid and home up the west coast, stopping at cheap inns and pensions alng the way. It was a memorable trip.


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## thrax (Nov 13, 2008)

Well I have discovered somewhere that is completely tourist free. My house. We don't get any tourists at all, apart from the occasional JW. Our closest neighbour, who is Spanish, lives about 100 metres directly north of our house so therefore he lives in Northern Spain.


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