# What to know about living in Germany?



## Leenix

Hi guys,

I might be moving to Berlin soon for a Job opportunity in a company called Zalando.
The estimated salary for me there will be around 4.7kEuro per month.

Is this a good Salary for a Senior position in IT?
Also i tried some online income tax calculators that say that my wage after tax will be around 2500Euro, is this correct? Anything else that will affect my income?

Is Germany a friendly place for a foreigner to be? I'm a quiet person and don't wan to get beat up by some street gang.


Please let me know of anything i'd need to know.


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## Nononymous

I assume you have EU rights and all that, so the administrative side of things will be easy enough.

I can't really say whether that's a good salary or not, as I'm not directly in IT.

Berlin is still relatively inexpensive, so a single person could live quite comfortably on 2500 euro/month after taxes. Depends where you want to live, and how luxuriously. Budget at least 1000 euro/month for a small apartment somewhere halfway decent. Depends too on where you'll be working.

Berlin is a relatively easy place to be a foreigner. It's better to speak German, of course, but some neighbourhoods are pretty accommodating to English speakers. The odds of being beaten up by a street gang are low. Like any city, there are areas that aren't super safe at certain times, but it shouldn't impact your day-to-day life.


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## Nononymous

The Zalando office is up in Prenzlauer Berg. That whole area is crawling with expats and IT/media types. Rents and prices will be higher, but very foreigner-friendly.


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## Leenix

As i see, it's possible to get an apartment with 2 bedrooms for around 600-900Euro and a single bedroom apt for 500-ish.

I wanna live well, in relative ease and with a bit of luxury without noisy neighbors. Is that a problem there? Noisy neighbors?
I'm exceptionally sensitive to noise, domestic fights, people with subwoofers and crappy thin walls as i've lived most of my life in a concrete house that blocks most noise.
Is this going to be a problem there? Any experiences in this?


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## Leenix

Also here's what the German Tax calculator says:

For a 56 000 income per year or 4666 per month
12k for tax
10k for social insurance
Leaves me with 32k clean.

That's 2666 per month clean afaik.


Does this look correct to you?


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## MrTweek

56 000 p.a. is 2730 € net/month. You don't need to pay church taxes, unless you explicitly register with a church in Germany.
That's not a bad salary for an IT position and easily enough for a decent lifestyle.



> I'm exceptionally sensitive to noise, domestic fights, people with subwoofers and crappy thin walls as i've lived most of my life in a concrete house that blocks most noise.
> Is this going to be a problem there? Any experiences in this?


You should be all right. Our houses are always made of concrete. Especially the old ones are pretty noise proof. Also, Germans generally seem rather sensitive to noise as well, so most places will be quiet. As long as you don't move to a cheap apartment in a ****ty neighbourhood, it'll be fine.



> As i see, it's possible to get an apartment with 2 bedrooms for around 600-900Euro and a single bedroom apt for 500-ish.


Keep in mind that we count total rooms, not bedrooms. So if you find a 2-room-apartment, it'll probably be 1 bedroom + 1 living room.



> Budget at least 1000 euro/month for a small apartment somewhere halfway decent.


No way. A small apartment will be half of that, maximum.
1000 € will get you an apartment that is probably too large for a single person.


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## Nononymous

Leenix said:


> I wanna live well, in relative ease and with a bit of luxury without noisy neighbors. Is that a problem there? Noisy neighbors?


At the risk of stating the obvious, it would depend on the neighbours. 

I don't find Germans to be any more or less noisy than Canadians or Americans. Walls are reasonably thick. You'll get a certain amount of noise due to simple density. Use common sense - find an apartment with the bedroom on the courtyard, not the street side, especially if there are lots of cafes and bars in the area.

However, if you're highly sensitive to noise, it could potentially be a problem anywhere.


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## Nononymous

MrTweek said:


> Keep in mind that we count total rooms, not bedrooms. So if you find a 2-room-apartment, it'll probably be 1 bedroom + 1 living room.
> 
> No way. A small apartment will be half of that, maximum.
> 1000 € will get you an apartment that is probably too large for a single person.


It's been a while since my life was simple enough to rent something small. But I would think that a decent 2-Zimmer in Mitte or P-berg would easily get up around 1000 (Warmmiete), plus the OP would probably want an Einbauküche unless they felt like going through Ikea hell their first week in town. 

You can live more cheaply in other parts of town, of course, but they are not as pleasant.


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## Leenix

Great, i don't mind paying 600-1000 for a half decent apartment in a good area of town.
Other than slightly expensive rent, i think with that salary, i'll be able to live well in Berlin.

One last question i have, are Germans sociable with foreigners? I realize that Berlin has it's fair share of too many foreigners, and so does this mean that Berlinians are a bit more open to friendships with foreigners or is to harder?


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## James3214

To be honest Lennix, from my experience in Berlin I have found them more friendly than those here in the Rhein-Main area!


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## Nononymous

Leenix said:


> Great, i don't mind paying 600-1000 for a half decent apartment in a good area of town.
> Other than slightly expensive rent, i think with that salary, i'll be able to live well in Berlin.
> 
> One last question i have, are Germans sociable with foreigners? I realize that Berlin has it's fair share of too many foreigners, and so does this mean that Berlinians are a bit more open to friendships with foreigners or is to harder?


That's not expensive rent for a major European city. Berlin isn't as cheap as it used to be, but it's still a bargain. If I were in your position I'd spend a bit extra to live in Prenzlauer Berg or Mitte, it'll be close to work and it's still a fun place to live (despite all the stereotypes - too many Schwaben and baby carriages, etc.) and full of expats.

You will have all kinds of work to do finding and setting up a place, but presumably the employer will have some relocation assistance and set you up with a short-term furnished rental until you find something more permanent. 

As for friendliness, it does of course depend on the Berliner, and on the foreigner. Berlin is an extremely easy place to live as an expat, but you really aren't going to integrate into the community until you have mastered the language and made some broader contacts (through sports, social groups, other parents in the playground, whatever). 

I absolutely love the place, some of my closest friends are Berliners, and I wish I could get back more than I do. However, like anywhere, it takes time to adjust and you have to make the effort to learn the language.


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## Leenix

Thanks for that. I'll check those areas out. 
It all sounds great. Lets see how it goes!


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## Leenix

Oh oh, one more thing...
I was offered a permanent position, is this unusual? The contract never expires which means i can stay there for as long as i want.


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## Nononymous

Leenix said:


> Oh oh, one more thing...
> I was offered a permanent position, is this unusual? The contract never expires which means i can stay there for as long as i want.


I don't think it's unusual to be offered a permanent contract if it's a full-time job. They can still fire you, and you can still quit.

I'm not an expert on EU residency and all that, but I assume that as long as you come from the half of Cyprus that's part of the EU, you can live in Germany for as long as you want, with possible caveats about being employed or otherwise financially self-sufficient.


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## FredW

Hi @Leenix
I'm now interviewing with Zalando either, can I ask you some questions privately? Here is my email address, gundam0083ster#gmail dot com(pls replace # with AT) I'm looking forward to your kindly reply. Thanks.


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## strawberries82

Nononymous said:


> I don't think it's unusual to be offered a permanent contract if it's a full-time job. They can still fire you, and you can still quit.
> 
> I'm not an expert on EU residency and all that, but I assume that as long as you come from the half of Cyprus that's part of the EU, you can live in Germany for as long as you want, with possible caveats about being employed or otherwise financially self-sufficient.


for the later i think he might need to have a private health insurance.


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## strawberries82

Leenix said:


> Is Germany a friendly place for a foreigner to be? I'm a quiet person and don't wan to get beat up by some street gang.
> Please let me know of anything i'd need to know.


i don't think that the above will happen,its friendly enough i think,i've got some friends who live there,so its pretty much ok,also if u live maybe near the french borders,i think u should be fine,its just my personal opinion and its just because the area i suggested is concentrated with foreigners.it might be of help,but i don't think its a necessity to be honest,im sure wherever u chose to go will be fine,but if it makes u more secure if u live in an area where foreigner live then its your choice.


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## Nash000

strawberries82 said:


> for the later i think he might need to have a private health insurance.


I'm not sure what you mean by "for the later", but Leenix does not have to have private health insurance. It's true that you must have some kind of health insurance, but with his wage, he is just over the limit where he can choose between public health insurance ("Gesetzliche Krankenversicherung" or GKV) and private health insurance ("Private Krankenversicherung", or PKV). (If your wage is lower than 4.400 €, you have to use GKV) 

The optimal choice depends on family, health status etc. 

And the tax calculators usually already deduct health insurance, so the quoted 2700 € should assume that you have already paid your GKV (as it comes out of your salary automatically).


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## FIFA_World_Cup_fan

*hey*



MrTweek said:


> 56 000 p.a. is 2730 € net/month. You don't need to pay church taxes, unless you explicitly register with a church in Germany.
> That's not a bad salary for an IT position and easily enough for a decent lifestyle.
> 
> 
> You should be all right. Our houses are always made of concrete. Especially the old ones are pretty noise proof. Also, Germans generally seem rather sensitive to noise as well, so most places will be quiet. As long as you don't move to a cheap apartment in a ****ty neighbourhood, it'll be fine.
> 
> Keep in mind that we count total rooms, not bedrooms. So if you find a 2-room-apartment, it'll probably be 1 bedroom + 1 living room.
> 
> No way. A small apartment will be half of that, maximum.
> 1000 € will get you an apartment that is probably too large for a single person.



This is a nice thread.


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