# Money in the Bank when Apply for Visa?



## janewalker55

This really is my last question of the day...... Just sorting out all the relevant paperwork for our Visa application, bank statements, pension statements etc.. All is in order but....... We have more than enough income to satisfy the authorities requirements I think ... I cannot see it stated anywhere categorically what it should be.. But, do you need to show you have enough income on an annual basis and/or a years worth of cash already in the bank before you get to France to see you through the first year.. ? i.e. If the figure is £50 per day per person do you have to show that you have an annual income of.. £50 x 365 x 2 (£36,500 joint income a year) with an addition of £36,500 in the bank..? Thanks once more... (I am loving this forum!!)


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## Bevdeforges

Yours is certainly not the first time this question has come up, and the answer is a bit fuzzy. 

If you are retirees, it's expected that you have some sort of national pension that you will be receiving while in France, and this is what the visa folks will be most interested in seeing. If you are "independently wealthy" and living off the interest, then the target to shoot for is something roughly akin to the French SMIC (i.e. minimum income - though used in France for many purposes, including evaluating the "adequacy" of your financial resources). The current SMIC is about 1600€ a month - with a couple needing something less than twice the SMIC, though it can depend on your plans.

One thing that tends to foul up early retirees or those without a pension (for whatever reason) is that the French really don't want to see you running down your life's savings for day-to-day living expenses. If you're early retirees but have estimates of what your pension amounts will be, they will want to see that you won't be running through all your savings in the time before your pensions become payable. (All this really is in your best interests.)

What they will want is to see that you have some idea of what things cost here in France, and that you have some "cushion" for things like drastic changes in exchange rates and all. It's also not a matter of having a certain amount (of income or savings) available. These requirements are fluid and subject to the "discretion" of the official looking at your dossier.


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## janewalker55

Bevdeforges said:


> Yours is certainly not the first time this question has come up, and the answer is a bit fuzzy.
> 
> If you are retirees, it's expected that you have some sort of national pension that you will be receiving while in France, and this is what the visa folks will be most interested in seeing. If you are "independently wealthy" and living off the interest, then the target to shoot for is something roughly akin to the French SMIC (i.e. minimum income - though used in France for many purposes, including evaluating the "adequacy" of your financial resources). The current SMIC is about 1600€ a month - with a couple needing something less than twice the SMIC, though it can depend on your plans.
> 
> One thing that tends to foul up early retirees or those without a pension (for whatever reason) is that the French really don't want to see you running down your life's savings for day-to-day living expenses. If you're early retirees but have estimates of what your pension amounts will be, they will want to see that you won't be running through all your savings in the time before your pensions become payable. (All this really is in your best interests.)
> 
> What they will want is to see that you have some idea of what things cost here in France, and that you have some "cushion" for things like drastic changes in exchange rates and all. It's also not a matter of having a certain amount (of income or savings) available. These requirements are fluid and subject to the "discretion" of the official looking at your dossier.


thanks for this information, it really is very helpful.. So... we both have state pensions and my husband is one of the lucky ones that managed to get a salary based local government pension before they stopped them.. so we are ok for monthly money.... (which I am thankful for every single day!!) We have a house to sell with no mortgage on it which we will invest in a new house in France.... Do you think they are going to be happy with that or do you think we are going to have to 'find' some savings (we have none!!!) from somewhere before we apply?


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## Bevdeforges

Basically, they're mostly interested in your monthly income - not nearly so much about having savings socked away somewhere. (Kind of the French approach to economics - you'll get used to it after a while.) By all means, bring the bank statements to your visa appointment, it if you're covered with your pension income, you should be just fine.


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## Crabtree

P60s come in helpful as well I would imagine The idea is that you show that you have a regular reliable income so that the French are not going to have to bail you out -at least not for the first five years anyway


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## paulmlemay

I am reading this with close attention, as I just retired at 58 with just a 401K, no pension. I hope they don't reject my application but you never know.


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## Bevdeforges

paulmlemay said:


> I am reading this with close attention, as I just retired at 58 with just a 401K, no pension. I hope they don't reject my application but you never know.


A 401K is considered a government pension in France. What you might want to consider doing is to set up a regular (say, monthly or quarterly) automatic disbursement from your 401K to your current bank account that will indicate your "income" for retirement. 

I used to have the money from my IRA transferred to my US account and then transfer it using Wise - or whatever FX company you prefer - from your US account to your French account at your convenience. That way, you can set your own pension figure. Do that for a few months before you apply for your visa and you'll have your proof of pension to show at your visa appointment.


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## paulmlemay

Thank you Bev. That is exactly my plan, to set up a monthly distribution of perhaps $4 or $5,000 into my US checking account for a few months. I don't have a French bank account yet.


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## jweihl

paulmlemay said:


> Thank you Bev. That is exactly my plan, to set up a monthly distribution of perhaps $4 or $5,000 into my US checking account for a few months. I don't have a French bank account yet.


FWIW. We set up an HSBC bank account online a year and a half before our move (delayed by COVID) and made monthly deposits of a couple thousand euro. That coupled with our IRA, annuity, and social security statements seemed to do the trick. In the letter where your describe your "program", we described our finances as "strong" and described how we would be living off savings from house and business sales, then taking annuity, social security, and finally IRA distributions over the next several years. I have no idea what they liked or didn't like, but we were approved very quickly.


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## TomMM

Bevdeforges said:


> Basically, they're mostly interested in your monthly income - not nearly so much about having savings socked away somewhere. (Kind of the French approach to economics - you'll get used to it after a while.) By all means, bring the bank statements to your visa appointment, it if you're covered with your pension income, you should be just fine.





Bevdeforges said:


> A 401K is considered a government pension in France. What you might want to consider doing is to set up a regular (say, monthly or quarterly) automatic disbursement from your 401K to your current bank account that will indicate your "income" for retirement.
> 
> I used to have the money from my IRA transferred to my US account and then transfer it using Wise - or whatever FX company you prefer - from your US account to your French account at your convenience. That way, you can set your own pension figure. Do that for a few months before you apply for your visa and you'll have your proof of pension to show at your visa appointment.


Hi,

Thanks for this information. It is similar to my situation which I am working on documenting. I am about to hit 60 and done working. My monthly income will be approximately $4k interest/dividend from my 401K and approximately the same amount from from a non-retirement account for a total of $8k. For my retirement funds from work I have the option of a lump sum rolled over into an IRA or a monthly payment. This decision will be deferred for a couple months and made after I submit my visa application but from a financial perspective I am inclined to take the lump sum. I have other funds in a HSA and will recieve a health care supplement from my employer of $7K a year until I am 62 and in 2 years I'll draw SS. Finally I will have funds from the sale of my house.

I am ready to submit my visa application and have been thinking on how to document my finances. My plan is to submit statements from my 401k and other investments accounts documenting my income and from my HSA but I am not clear on how to document my work retirement money since I'll be deferring that decision. I will have a pension estimate showing the amounts I would receive. Would that suffice? My house wouldn't be sold until after my visa application is submitted but before my final move so I have nothing to declare there. Finally, I don't plan on taking distributions from any of my accounts for a couple of years as my living expenses will be covered by the proceeds from the sale of my house but I do understand that documenting monthly income trumps total assets.

I would appreciate any feedback on my approach. I am trying to determine if there might be any major issues that would require me to rethink it before submitting my visa application.


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## Bevdeforges

Hang onto any letters or documents that estimate your pension payments (as income) - those are the sort of thing they're looking for, even if you plan on living off savings of one variety or another for the first year or two. It won't hurt to have documentation about your account balances, or the valuation of the house you're planning on selling - just to back up your plans.


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## TomMM

Bevdeforges said:


> Hang onto any letters or documents that estimate your pension payments (as income) - those are the sort of thing they're looking for, even if you plan on living off savings of one variety or another for the first year or two. It won't hurt to have documentation about your account balances, or the valuation of the house you're planning on selling - just to back up your plans.


Thank you. When submitting account statements would the summary page showing balance/income suffice or should I provide the entire statement? The monthly statements from my 401K and investment accounts are 20+ pages each. Not sure if they want to see every transaction or just the summary.


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## Bevdeforges

Probably just the summary - but basically your appointment with VFS is to allow them to review your file and make sure that they have everything they need. The usual recommendation is to bring a few "extra" documents that you could pull out of your briefcase to add to your folder should they ask.


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## TomMM

Thanks again.


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