# Nightmare buying in Portugal



## kemif

Hi all

I posted in November about buying a property in Portugal. To date we have tried buying 2 properties to no avail. We travel down to see the properties, make offers on them, offers accepted but the agents do not proceed. As a matter of fact, my husband has given up on our Portuguese property dream and the children are saying we should invest our money here in the UK! Has anyone been through the same experience? How long generally should it take between when an offer is accepted to completion? We made an offer on the recent property in November and we have a lawyer, fiscal number, power of attorney for the lawyer to purchase on our behalf and all funds ready for the purchase but the agents keep telling us that they are awaiting one document or the other from the Camara.

Thanks for your response on this post to restore our faith in buying in Portugal


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## Janina k

kemif said:


> Hi all
> but the agents keep telling us that they are awaiting one document or the other from the Camara.


Hello

We where freinds with an agent who has since moved abroard this agent was an IMCI registered agent. During the time we knew him when we found our house we had a similar problem expalined to use that had been found when the agent did his checks on our property. The agent expalined that as he was a legal registered agent he can't list a property unless ALL paperwork is in place before he could list the property for sale. 

May i suggest that your agent is not a legal agent or if he is report him to IMCI the estate agents governing body for advertising property that does not have the paperwork in place.

If it is that the agent is not registered then beware

Fred


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## canoeman

Yes registered agents are supposed to check documents but not all do, and * it's not all up to the agents* registered or otherwise their job is or should be to make certain iniatly that paperwork is in order (but not to the nth degree) and the seller can legally sell

I'd be *questioning* your lawyer *because thats what you've employed him to do* i.e. to check and obtain all documents for the sale, their validity, debts etc etc,.

How quick well with all paperwork and appointments information from Financas you could do it in a day but generally no more 3 months or by agreement, we moved into 1 property where Escritura was cancelled at last minute due to an issue with sellers divorce paperwork and Escritura didn't happen for 8 months
In current market no seller is going to or is very unlikely jeopardize a sale because of not getting paperwork in order ASAP

I'm afraid that sometimes getting the right bit of paper is important and not always easy but you can push things along by making your lawyer do his job and telling agents/sellers you'll withdraw if they don't complete by a ?? date, afraid it's how much you want property and are prepared to delay, and if it falls through you know more of the questions/things to check in the initial stages


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## travelling-man

I've heard of agents not doing their job properly and not having all their ducks in a row but a good lawyer should be able to tell you that in pretty short order and from my limited experience, a purchase goes through fairly quickly compared to the UK. 

I'm rather reading between the lines but it sounds to me like you need to find a new lawyer. - and FWIW, our purchase went through in a little over 6 weeks if I remember correctly.


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## kemif

Thanks for your comments. Both agents are from Remax. My lawyer is very good. He was the one who advised not to touch the initial property due to irregularities in the paperwork.


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## travelling-man

I think Remax is just a franchise but FWIW, I've tried to deal with Remax in 3 different countries over a number of years & all have been a total waste of space....... one wanted me to sign an agreement that said if I bought ANY property ANYWHERE in that country from ANYONE, I'd pay him the relevant commission before he'd even send me details of a single property......... Needless to say, I told him where to go.

Perhaps an idea to try a different company?


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## canoeman

Yes Remax a franchise and only as good as the owner of that Franchise, afraid I agree with TM my dealings with Remax here have been less than good in Portugal except for one that I actually purchased this property from but that was because the husband and wife team where 100% on the ball.

If your lawyer is that good then what's his explanation for delay with paperwork ?


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## travelling-man

I've just checked with SWMBO and our sale went through from start to finish in about 6 weeks and a couple of days and we bought 3 separate plots from 2 groups of owners.


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## kemif

We will continue looking then. Hopefully we would meet reliable agents who can help in buying our dream farm. I have just emailed my lawyer & the agents with deadlines. Thanks all.


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## siobhanwf

Our sale went through from start to finish in just over 6 weeks, and NO thanks to our lawyer 

Remax were a waste of space

What area are you looking at?


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## kemif

Hi Siobhan

We are looking in the Santarem, Setubal or Lisbon area. The ones that we found earlier were in Cartaxo and the current one in Martinchel. We don't want to be more than 1 hour away from the airport as one of us may have to come to the UK a couple of times a month for work.


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## siobhanwf

We are in RIO MAIOR Less than 30 kms from Santarem  we have been here 7 years now. 50 mins to airport via IC2 and A1


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## kemif

Great Siobhan

Please let us know if there are any good agents that we can approach int the area. Cheers.


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## paramonte

For instance, PT inheritance laws that require that all sons agree with the sale make some property a legal nightmare. May be that is not the case here. If one of the heirs does not want to sell (emotional attachments to the property, waiting for better days to buy off from the other heirs, etc) there has be be a court order for the property to be sold. But that takes long. 

Other reasons include the lack of the appropriate licences (habitation, swimming pool, wells etc) and that requires dealings with the Câmara.

Or may be a land/property registration issue as far as classification is concerned?

My suggestion is to get yourself more involved in the process and learn what exactly is delaying the process. From here you can roughly assess how serious the problems are. My other suggestion is to get in touch with the actual owners to ask their views on the issue...


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## noserhodes

hi i don,t rate remax at all we arranged to view some properties with them and they didnt even turn up not very nice or professional when you have paid your expenses to travel here from the uk.
one remax agent told me we had overpaid on our property and they had not even seen it or knew the region we had bought in!!!!!
we managed to to purchase and complete and moved in within 3 weeks of initial viewing but all paperwork was good and double checked by our lawyer happy days!!


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## kemif

Thanks all. I sent the agents an email yesterday and I will ask them further when the reply to my email to let me know the actual document(s) that is still outstanding.


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## sebenza

im still trying to get a bank linked to PT paypal and thats a nightmare so not keen to 
buy here .

id did inquire about one tiny piece of land looked like an allotment with a ruin , they wanted 250,000 none negotiable , not tried since! .

good luck though , hope you succeed .


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## canoeman

No problem linking PayPal to a Portuguese account more of a problem trying to link a UK a/c to PayPal when your a Resident

Maybe land you looked at in a very desirable area? but plenty out there but less so around tourist hotspots


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## canoeman

Just a thought sebenza have you the right sort of card? for your a/c certain Multibanco can't be used on internet


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## sebenza

yes that is the problem i believe , card will not sync , im working on it though .

i wanted a way of earning euros without having to earn pounds and convert to euros with fees , im getting there slowly .

thanks for help !!


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## canoeman

You'll pay fees on PayPal or get a great exchange rate, better to have a Portuguese Bank account that has a free transfer facility from UK, like Millennium, Santander, BPI?


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## knocka

In 5 years we have bought 3 houses in central Portugal with each sale taking approx. 6 -8 weeks. We have also sold 2 houses and from placing on the market to completion was approx. 6 weeks.


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## In 2 bikes

We met our Remax agent at 12 mid day at the house. At 1230 we followed him to his office to discuss a price. He arranged an interpretor to be present and we then discussed obtaining a Fiscal number. We adjourned for lunch at 1 and met him again at 2 . He then took us to the office that issued Fiscal numbers and assisted in that process, even using his own Portuguese identity card to substantiate things.

Twenty minutes later we were back at the Remax office and met an English speaking lawyer from the town. We discussed giving power of attorney to the solicitor so we would not have to return to Portugal from the UK merely to sign the escritura ( completion of sale contracts ) at a later date. This required a visit to the notaire's office who had to authorise the power of attorney being handed over. The Remax guy took us to the notaire and introduce us. The notaire spoke English and drew up the documents there and then to approve the power of attorney. She verified our Fiscal numbers and wished us well in our new home.

The Remax chap took us back to his office where we completed the promissory contract ( initial deposit documents and intention to buy) with our newly acquired lawyer. We were also taken by Remax to the Millennium bank in the town to organise the monies for the deposit. The time now was just getting on to bank closing . Our Remax chap translated for us in the bank and made that process seamless.

We walked back to Remax and by 4:45 we were walking out smiling and in possession of various papers stating we, and the seller, were now legally bound to put a new country house roof over our heads. 

In a nutshell it took under 5 hours to buy a house having viewed it. Remax ( Tondela ), particularly Miguel and Susana Dias were superb. our lawyer Mirian, from her own practice in Tondela has been a gem. Millennium couldn't have been more helpful.

We expect to complete with 6 weeks when we raise the outstanding balance.

Overall awesome.


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## maidentales

We bought from someone who bought the house from a Portuguese person, knew where to advertise to get the best price to re-sell privately.

Sale went through in 2 stage payments - no problem at all with any paperwork or the owners or the lawyer acting.

The property was privately advertised on Pure Portugal.

We didn't get involved in the sale except for the negotiations with the previous owner on price and stage payments.

Everything went very smoothly.

I just feel that "it was meant to be" - keep going with it and it should fall into place, although bear in mind that there are more properties for sale in Portugal than there are humans to occupy them so don't be afraid to negotiate.

Related reading:

http://www.theguardian.com/society/...perties-enough-house-homeless-continent-twice

http://www.theportugalnews.com/news/homeless-rising-alongside-empty-homes/30765

Scary stats:

https://fullfact.org/factchecks/31000_excess_deaths_last_winter_cause-29289


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