# Hello All



## Sirrat (Jul 10, 2015)

Hi. 
I need some guidance here. I plan on making the leap from Hawaii to the PI in early 2017. I'll be 57 then and will still have to wait a few years before I can get my SSI (if there is any left). It is my intent to purchase 3-4 houses/condos, live in one and rent the others out. Condos would be nice if I can get them from the same owners. That will be my only guaranteed income. I plan on perhaps going into a business venture there but, I'm not counting on it. If it works fine, if not I still need to be able to survive. Online I have found properties in the 800,000p-1,000,000p range. These are in or near larger cities. According to my Fiancés brother those properties would rent out for about 10,000p a month. Does that sound ok? I trust her brother but I have to double check everything. I'm doing this on a real tight budget. I would also like to know if I already got a house and only need living expenses, what would I need to bring in monthly in order to survive? Say for 2 people. Could I survive on 20,000 a month?


Thanks ;0)


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## lefties43332 (Oct 21, 2012)

10,000 php?


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## Sirrat (Jul 10, 2015)

Sorry I meant to say 20,000p now if I can just figure out how to edit my post. lol


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## Asian Spirit (Mar 1, 2010)

Sirrat said:


> Sorry I meant to say 20,000p now if I can just figure out how to edit my post. lol


Amount has been edited for you


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## JimnNila143 (Jul 23, 2013)

Hope you can get S.S.R.D.I. instead of S.S.I. With S.S.I. you have to live in the USA, with S.S.R.D.I. you can live overseas. Good luck, hope you can get here.


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## Sirrat (Jul 10, 2015)

Thank you


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## M.C.A. (Feb 24, 2013)

*Rental rates of a condo*



Sirrat said:


> Hi.
> I need some guidance here. I plan on making the leap from Hawaii to the PI in early 2017. I'll be 57 then and will still have to wait a few years before I can get my SSI (if there is any left). It is my intent to purchase 3-4 houses/condos, live in one and rent the others out. Condos would be nice if I can get them from the same owners. That will be my only guaranteed income. I plan on perhaps going into a business venture there but, I'm not counting on it. If it works fine, if not I still need to be able to survive. Online I have found properties in the 800,000p-1,000,000p range. These are in or near larger cities. According to my Fiancés brother those properties would rent out for about 10,000p a month. Does that sound ok? I trust her brother but I have to double check everything. I'm doing this on a real tight budget. I would also like to know if I already got a house and only need living expenses, what would I need to bring in monthly in order to survive? Say for 2 people. Could I survive on 20,000 a month?
> 
> 
> Thanks ;0)


You won't find many citizens here that would pay 10,000 pesos per month for a condo, they still need to pay the electrical bill ect.. citizens could buy their own condo for that much a month, it sounds cheap to us but keep in mind most citizens live on 5,000 peso's or less per month, they don't spend money on rentals or fancy foods like we do.

You'd have a a string of condos with no renters or trouble finding them or paying they bills and wrecking your units, think about those costs. I guess if you could find foreigners who need a spots by the month it would work, who's gonna pay 20,000 pesos a month for a condo rental? Way crazy.


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## Lanhawk (Feb 25, 2015)

It really depends where you intend to buy and what the market can bear. I having a home in Bacolod City so I can speak on the largest city in ****** Occidental. The average rent for around there is about 8,000 per month for a two bedroom - two CR one story. My advice would be get to your area and feel things out, a lot of homes are for sale by owner. if you can hook up with some expats there is always one selling a condo or home. A lot of expats own condos which they can own outright as no land is involved. When we were looking to buy a place, an expat was trying to get me to buy his condo for 1.5 mil, and it was a simple one bedroom, one cr - standard apartment layout. The housing market is booming in ****** and prices are high and going higher, not sure when prices will start to drop. I would start small, buy one rental and see if being a landlord in a foreign country is something you would like to do. When we finally decided to build our own home, we built a small apartment next door and have income coming in from that plus we can always sell it if the right buyer came along. We also run a small sari sari store out of our house and serve food, and while that doesn't bring in a large amount of money it provides with 1) something to do 2) something we enjoy doing ( cooking & meeting people) and 3) we never go hungry. For the key to success is having multiple streams of income coming and not rely on just one source. Good luck and let us know how you make out. Its an exciting time in your life so enjoy.


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## Sirrat (Jul 10, 2015)

Mcalleyboy you miss read my post. I said I was told 10,000p a month rental PER house. The 20,000p would be the COMBINED income from 2 houses not one. Basically I was told (this is for the Angeles area) to expect a 1 bedroom house to rent for around 5000p, a 2 bedroom for 5,000 to 8,000p and a 3+ bedroom for 8,000 to 10,000p a month. Sounds like its not too far off from what Lanhawk is saying. I would imagine Angeles prices might be slightly higher than Bacolod? Any members here living around Angeles area care to chime in? So again I ask the question If I already have a roof over my head what kind of income would I need to survive on say for 2 people?

TY


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## pakawala (Sep 10, 2014)

Sirrat said:


> Hi.
> I need some guidance here. I plan on making the leap from Hawaii to the PI in early 2017. I'll be 57 then and will still have to wait a few years before I can get my SSI (if there is any left). It is my intent to purchase 3-4 houses/condos, live in one and rent the others out. Condos would be nice if I can get them from the same owners. That will be my only guaranteed income.


Relying on someone paying rent as your "ONLY" source of income is a huge red flag especially if your tenants know rent is your only source of income.

Because, should you need to evict a tenant you will not have a wheelbarrow full of money needed to take them to court to get the eviction order should they decide not to pay rent. (i.e. can you pay your rent so i have money to take you to court so i can get a court order to evict you.) 

https://real-estate-leasing.knoji.com/tenant-eviction-law-in-philippines/



Sirrat said:


> Say for 2 people. Could I survive on 20,000 a month?
> Thanks ;0)


IMHO, NO. I get the feeling that you have never been to the PI. Come here and see how many days 20K pesos lets you survive on.


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## M.C.A. (Feb 24, 2013)

20,000 pesos is possible but no quests or in-laws... but this is the Philippine and our wives are some what social what about guests and In-laws? and you'd need your own transportation to get around in, boy thats cutting it real close but then again many Philippine families are able to live like this, if your able to not eat real humble and don't forget you might want to have internet, mine runs me nearly 2,000 pesos a month, I've seen some packages for 1,000 pesos and then a fridge and who knows occasionally turning on the Air conditioner, at bare minimum the electrical bill will run you about 2,000 pesos per month and add the aircon (few hours per day) fridge, tv and fan and it climbs to 3,000, what about filtered water and a hot and cold water dispenser.


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## Sirrat (Jul 10, 2015)

pakawala said:


> Relying on someone paying rent as your "ONLY" source of income is a huge red flag especially if your tenants know rent is your only source of income.
> 
> Because, should you need to evict a tenant you will not have a wheelbarrow full of money needed to take them to court to get the eviction order should they decide not to pay rent. (i.e. can you pay your rent so i have money to take you to court so i can get a court order to evict you.)
> 
> ...


Good point to consider about tenant eviction. I really have absolutely no intention of being an active landlord. My intent is to let my wife's family manage the properties, since they will be getting part of this income. Why not let em earn a little of it?

Never been to the PI?? yea you are so smart you saw right through me I have never been there before in my life..u are a highly intelligent person if that's what you truly believe...did it ever occur to your highly developed brain that maybe when I do go to the Philippines I go as a tourist? And as a tourist I spend like a tourist, So no I really don't know what it takes to live in the Philippines. Which is why I'm here asking genius!

I must be wording my question wrong. I thought it was a basic simple question. 
"if I already have a roof over my head, what would be a reasonable monthly budget for 2 people?"

Anyways thanks for the help, I'll try and finds an answer to my question elsewhere 
Aloha...Mike


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## Gary D (Oct 28, 2013)

Ball park for an expat about $1000 a month. The months you don't spend it all you save it for a rainy day like healthcare.


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## Sirrat (Jul 10, 2015)

Thanks Mcalleyboy


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## Sirrat (Jul 10, 2015)

Thanks Gary D


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## lefties43332 (Oct 21, 2012)

pakawala said:


> Relying on someone paying rent as your "ONLY" source of income is a huge red flag especially if your tenants know rent is your only source of income.
> 
> Because, should you need to evict a tenant you will not have a wheelbarrow full of money needed to take them to court to get the eviction order should they decide not to pay rent. (i.e. can you pay your rent so i have money to take you to court so i can get a court order to evict you.)
> 
> ...


That totally depends on you and your other. Typically,most filipina will want to show off . Mine is very frugal and budgets. We live very well on little. Im blessed. She is a rare person.


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## Gary D (Oct 28, 2013)

lefties43332 said:


> That totally depends on you and your other. Typically,most filipina will want to show off . Mine is very frugal and budgets. We live very well on little. Im blessed. She is a rare person.


It also very much depends on where you live, any city will be much more expensive than the provinces. I just gave a ball park figure, if you spend more you need to look at what you are spending on, if less great. The important thing is not to give the impression that you can live like a local, you can try but it will get old very quickly.


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## pakawala (Sep 10, 2014)

Sirrat said:


> Hi.
> According to my Fiancés brother those properties would rent out for about 10,000p a month.





Sirrat said:


> My intent is to let my wife's family manage the properties, since they will be getting part of this income.



:confused2:


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## Lanhawk (Feb 25, 2015)

Really one of the most common questions ask is what will it take to live in the Philippines and the answer is.. there really isn't a right answer for everybody. One has to take in consideration what one has to live with and what one can live with out. I have seen guys live on about 8 K pesos a month and and seen guys spend that much in a day. For me, Internet runs about 1500, want cable tv - add another 1000, and electric, now that is the killer, the rate for electric in the Philippines is highest in all of Asia. Need aircon to sleep, electric goes up. I think you get the idea. I personally think the hardest year is the first year and that's because as an expat we generally spend too much, eat out too much, become too generous with our money and need to remove the "western way of living" idea in our heads. I hope you stick around this forum as we are interested in your story of transition because nobody has the same story.


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## galactic (Dec 2, 2014)

Sirrat said:


> Hi.
> I need some guidance here. I plan on making the leap from Hawaii to the PI in early 2017. I'll be 57 then and will still have to wait a few years before I can get my SSI (if there is any left). It is my intent to purchase *3-4 houses/condos*, live in one and rent the others out. Condos would be nice if I can get them from the same owners. That will be my only guaranteed income. I plan on perhaps going into a business venture there but, I'm not counting on it. If it works fine, if not I still need to be able to survive. Online I have found properties in the *800,000p-1,000,000p range*. These are in or near larger cities. According to my Fiancés brother those properties would rent out for about 10,000p a month. Does that sound ok? I trust her brother but I have to double check everything. I'm doing this on a real tight budget. I would also like to know if I already got a house and only need living expenses, what would I need to bring in monthly in order to survive? Say for 2 people. Could I survive on 20,000 a month?
> 
> 
> Thanks ;0)


So you will be shelling out roughly 3-4 Million pesos?
If I were you don't put your eggs in one basket.
What city are these properties located? How big is it?

Living on 20 thousand pesos is cutting it very close. You should make some slack for any incidentals.


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## Sirrat (Jul 10, 2015)

The properties are in Butuan. I'm just trying to see which way I need to go when I get there. Plan A = Move there buy as many properties as I can afford (3-5 probably) Live in one rent the others. Possible management and tenant problems there (hopefully not both tenants stop paying at the same time). Plan B = Rent em all out and move to my fiancés province in Mindanao and build, buy, rent or something there. That place is so far back in the sticks, you never see more than a handful of motorbikes and possibly 5 or 10 cars/trucks pass through on any given day. They mostly farm and fish there. Problems there would be the, close vicinity to Muslim areas, too close to my inlaws (could be a plus at times), and perhaps the biggest problem would be the huge adjustment I would have to make in my living style. I mean I know I will be making adjustments in my living style anyways. But living there would certainly be the hardest for me to get used to. That being said I'm a diver and there is tons of undiscovered dive sites in Mindanao ;0)


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## Asian Spirit (Mar 1, 2010)

Sirrat said:


> The properties are in Butuan. I'm just trying to see which way I need to go when I get there. Plan A = Move there buy as many properties as I can afford (3-5 probably) Live in one rent the others. Possible management and tenant problems there (hopefully not both tenants stop paying at the same time). Plan B = Rent em all out and move to my fiancés province in Mindanao and build, buy, rent or something there. That place is so far back in the sticks, you never see more than a handful of motorbikes and possibly 5 or 10 cars/trucks pass through on any given day. They mostly farm and fish there. Problems there would be the, close vicinity to Muslim areas, too close to my inlaws (could be a plus at times), and perhaps the biggest problem would be the huge adjustment I would have to make in my living style. I mean I know I will be making adjustments in my living style anyways. But living there would certainly be the hardest for me to get used to. That being said I'm a diver and there is tons of undiscovered dive sites in Mindanao ;0)


I've followed your posts and from living here many years, I can tell you that you need a 
Plan C. 
That is to come here and do a reasonable study on the number of condos that exist vs the number that are being rented in any given location.

This country is over-full of condos; both high rises and single story units. The vast majority sit empty and the companies that built them out of business.
Not enough buyers or renters for the number available. So to rent out units that you buy, you would just about have to give them rent free to get any takers and that is a fact. Angeles City might be an exception but most there would be short term renters.

You'd better visit here many times and think 10,000 time before you toss money in the toilet.

Those dive sites around Mindanao? Be Darned careful or you'll wind up as part of the underwater scenery wearing cement shoes and this girl will own all you paid for!



Jet Lag


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## HondaGuy (Aug 6, 2012)

Why not buy some cheap properties in the US and rent those out? I know a few guys that live in the Philippines and their income is from renting out properties back in their home countries.


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## Palawenio (Mar 4, 2014)

Please pardon my post. But you already live in Hawaii, a place that in my humble opinion has the best weather on earth. Not to mention Hawaii has the amenities and protection of a US state. 
I think that for now at least, you are fantasizing about Philippine residency. Come and visit. Once, twice, many times. Stay for extended periods where you think you will start a new life. When the fog of adrenaline and dopamine has settled, then make up your mind.
On the other hand, I myself chose to live in the Philippines. Even if my daughter in Honolulu wants me to live with her, grandson, dog, and all. 
Go figure. :confused2:


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## Sirrat (Jul 10, 2015)

How many more trips am I supposed to make? I've been going to the PI 1-2 times a year since 2005. The cost of living in Hawaii is extremely high. I have a 3 bedroom townhouse with a mortgage that wont be paid off until I'm 72 and that's if I can keep working until then which is a big if. More than likely at some point I would become unemployed and forced to sell my home to avoid foreclosure. So staying in Hawaii is not what I want to do. The market in Hawaii is in a bubble right now and hopefully if by this time next year prices are high enough I want to sell my place and move there. I've spent several week with the girlfriends family in Mindanao, they are good honest people.

TY


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## Palawenio (Mar 4, 2014)

Oh, sorry. I understand now. Well, Butuan is a very progressive place. A niece and family has lived there for ages. Her husband is a Butuenio as the locals are called by some. Good amenities. Your desires are well founded then. Just take the necessary precautions needed to move to a so-called 3rd world country (if the PR still belongs to that category). As for the apartment-units-for-rent business plan, the main problem is - non payment of tenants. BIG headaches of owners. I had that problem in the past. And I'm Filipino-born.


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## M.C.A. (Feb 24, 2013)

*Hawaii*



Sirrat said:


> How many more trips am I supposed to make? I've been going to the PI 1-2 times a year since 2005. The cost of living in Hawaii is extremely high. I have a 3 bedroom townhouse with a mortgage that wont be paid off until I'm 72 and that's if I can keep working until then which is a big if. More than likely at some point I would become unemployed and forced to sell my home to avoid foreclosure. So staying in Hawaii is not what I want to do. The market in Hawaii is in a bubble right now and hopefully if by this time next year prices are high enough I want to sell my place and move there. I've spent several week with the girlfriends family in Mindanao, they are good honest people.
> 
> TY


I'm with you, you'll have to work till your in diapers before the mediocre home is paid off in expensive Hawaii, way crazy. You can build a very nice little palace here for as a little as $10,000 with an upper deck patio and out of concrete, they key is to avoid all the Western pitfalls, such as contacting a realtor, signing contracts, I wonder if become zombies against ourselves, this is still the wild-west and you can set up a house on family property and build it without all the professionals involved this includes architectes, our house was designed by us same with the shelving and entertainments centers.


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## Sirrat (Jul 10, 2015)

Interesting you mention building a place. I've had a notion in the back of my head of possibly doing container homes there both for living and as possible income. I have a buddy in AC been doing extremely well there. He knows the construction business very well, meaning he knows how not to get burned. He would certainly be able to put me on to an honest contractor. I could see putting a few container homes on one plot of land and selling them. If I could get something like that going I'd be ok then. I could put the in-laws to work then too.
That means I'd be working out of the AC area to start which is fine as living in Mindanao is my last choice. My first choice would be Baguio but I think homes/land there is probably more expensive. If the container homes works though it could be done. Although maybe the way you said to build might be better the difference being this wouldn't be on family land but again my friend is quite versed in the building industry so who knows? This might be way more viable than the rental plan. 
TY

OK gentlemen start shooting! Fill her full of holes! Its irritating at times but its making me think and re think. That's good! So thank you and start shooting ;0)


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## Gary D (Oct 28, 2013)

Sirrat said:


> Interesting u mention building a place. I've had a notion in the back of my head of possibly doing container homes there both for living and as possible income. I have a buddy in AC been doing extremely well there. He knows the construction business very well, meaning he knows how not to get burned. He would certainly be able to put me on to an honest contractor. I could see putting a few container homes on one plot of land and selling them. If I could get something like that going I'd be ok then. I could put the in-laws to work then too.
> That means I'd be working out of the AC area to start which is fine as living in Mindanao is my last choice. My first choice would be Baguio but I think homes/land there is probably more expensive. If the container homes works though it could be done. Although maybe the way you said to build might be better the difference being this wouldn't be on family land but again my friend is quite versed in the building industry so who knows? This might be way more viable than the rental plan.
> TY
> 
> OK gentlemen start shooting! Fill her full of holes! Its irritating at times but its making me think and re think. That's good! So thank you and start shooting ;0)


Don't forget you can not own land and don't believe anyone who has a scheme that tells you otherwise.


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## Rogdas (Apr 9, 2015)

Sirrat said:


> Interesting u mention building a place. I've had a notion in the back of my head of possibly doing container homes there both for living and as possible income. I have a buddy in AC been doing extremely well there. He knows the construction business very well, meaning he knows how not to get burned. He would certainly be able to put me on to an honest contractor. I could see putting a few container homes on one plot of land and selling them. If I could get something like that going I'd be ok then. I could put the in-laws to work then too.
> That means I'd be working out of the AC area to start which is fine as living in Mindanao is my last choice. My first choice would be Baguio but I think homes/land there is probably more expensive. If the container homes works though it could be done. Although maybe the way you said to build might be better the difference being this wouldn't be on family land but again my friend is quite versed in the building industry so who knows? This might be way more viable than the rental plan.
> TY
> 
> OK gentlemen start shooting! Fill her full of holes! Its irritating at times but its making me think and re think. That's good! So thank you and start shooting ;0)


 Who do you plan on selling or renting container homes to in the Philippines? 
please don't tell me Filipinos LOL>>>>>


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## M.C.A. (Feb 24, 2013)

*Steel containers (Heat Factor)*



Rogdas said:


> Who do you plan on selling or renting container homes to in the Philippines?
> please don't tell me Filipinos LOL>>>>>


Agree with Rogdas, I can see a steel container working in a cooler environment but not in the Philippines, that would be unbearable and hot, what about the rust, I feel most here wouldn't want to live like that they prefer open aired type living settings or cubo's, it's cooler.


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## Sirrat (Jul 10, 2015)

JimnNila143 said:


> Hope you can get S.S.R.D.I. instead of S.S.I. With S.S.I. you have to live in the USA, with S.S.R.D.I. you can live overseas. Good luck, hope you can get here.


Getting Social Security While Living Overseas | ElderLawAnswers

You all sure you can't get SSI there?


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## Sirrat (Jul 10, 2015)

They are building some awesome container homes out in Las Vegas. They are putting them everywhere in both hot and cold climates. Basically it all about insulating, heating and air conditioning. These are nice multi bedroom homes I'm talking about not some "container take off of a trailer home" Usually using anywhere from 1-3 or 4 or even go crazy and build a huge 20-30 container mansion! Suitable for use in pretty much any climate. I can see a real possible advantage in having my structures "pre assembled" so to speak. I'm sure that in the process of building a cement or other type of construction there are many opportunities for the contractor to come up with reasons why its going to cost more and find new thins you have to spend your money on to finish. With the container homes the structure is already made you just need to position them, lock them together in what ever configuration you want, knock out the inner walls as needed. Then its just electrical, plumbing and finishing. Please don't sell container homes short until you check them out. 
Rent out or sell? Probably sell since everyone says renting wont work.


TY


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## Gary D (Oct 28, 2013)

Sirrat said:


> They are building some awesome container homes out in Las Vegas. They are putting them everywhere in both hot and cold climates. Basically it all about insulating, heating and air conditioning. These are nice multi bedroom homes I'm talking about not some "container take off of a trailer home" Usually using anywhere from 1-3 or 4 or even go crazy and build a huge 20-30 container mansion! Suitable for use in pretty much any climate. I can see a real possible advantage in having my structures "pre assembled" so to speak. I'm sure that in the process of building a cement or other type of construction there are many opportunities for the contractor to come up with reasons why its going to cost more and find new thins you have to spend your money on to finish. With the container homes the structure is already made you just need to position them, lock them together in what ever configuration you want, knock out the inner walls as needed. Then its just electrical, plumbing and finishing. Please don't sell container homes short until you check them out.
> Rent out or sell? Probably sell since everyone says renting wont work.
> 
> 
> ...


I have seen containers used as site offices in the Philippines with windows torch cut into them. Your biggest problem is that your most likely clientel won't be able to afford them. A common practise here is for someone to pay a bit at a time maybe over years into a local building supplier until they have enough materials to build there house. They will then start building a bit at a time as they can pay the local jobber builders.


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## M.C.A. (Feb 24, 2013)

*Build it your way like Burger King*



Sirrat said:


> They are building some awesome container homes out in Las Vegas. They are putting them everywhere in both hot and cold climates. Basically it all about insulating, heating and air conditioning. These are nice multi bedroom homes I'm talking about not some "container take off of a trailer home" Usually using anywhere from 1-3 or 4 or even go crazy and build a huge 20-30 container mansion! Suitable for use in pretty much any climate. I can see a real possible advantage in having my structures "pre assembled" so to speak. I'm sure that in the process of building a cement or other type of construction there are many opportunities for the contractor to come up with reasons why its going to cost more and find new thins you have to spend your money on to finish. With the container homes the structure is already made you just need to position them, lock them together in what ever configuration you want, knock out the inner walls as needed. Then its just electrical, plumbing and finishing. Please don't sell container homes short until you check them out.
> Rent out or sell? Probably sell since everyone says renting wont work.
> 
> 
> TY


Your talking contractors and really there's no need, have it built yourself, you hire a crew and build your own spot, nobody in our neighborhood talks with contractors unless they have no other option because they're not living here but you'll be here so you can hire and fire as you like, we went through 3 crews before we found someone who could finish up the job the second crew was more professional and they set in the concrete supports, each support took a couple days to fabricate because of the steel bars they had to bend them so the skeletal inner supports and then board it up and poor in the concrete from the top.

If you have that kind of money terrific have a contractor build your home if you don't there's no need...Lol, you need to come here and see how things work and how they don't work.

The problem with the Philippines is that skilled and labor job pay is minimal but in the states it's very expensive, I feel your container home is a great idea for the states but my gosh there's no need here, it's the reason many of us come here and that's to get away from insane cost of living charges and over priced homes and rules, if your neighbor has a shack why can't you? Answer is you can the only thing holding you back is your stuck on rules. In the states you can't own a shack you can't have it your way because there are so many rules and this goes for most Western countries.

Worst case scenario is that you'll be living in a Cubo they cost about $300 delivered so a mini home made out of bamboo until your concrete home is finished.


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## liam27 (Jul 17, 2015)

P20,000 pesos a month is not enough income for two people, nowhere near enough. Your condo will have expenses maintenance fees etc. Electric no aircon, 1600+ water 300 to 500, bottled gas 100 then food, if you live on a very basic diet and i mean basic. Cut things like cosmetics down to an absolute minimum you might JUST SURVIVE. One months missed rent you are in trouble. Think this through very very carefully. Come to Angeles for a month do some real research. I think your in for a shock.


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## pakawala (Sep 10, 2014)

liam27 said:


> O20,000 pesos a month is not enough income for two people, nowhere near enough. .


At 20K per month, he would be at the Lower middle income - (By PI Standards.)

ARTICLE

You are considered Poor - Less than PHP 7,890 per month

You are considered Low income (but not poor) - between PHP 7,890 to PHP 15,780 per month

You are considered Lower middle income - Between PHP 15,780 to PHP 31,560 per month

You are considered Middle class - Between PHP 31,560 to PHP 78,900 per month

You are considered Upper middle income - Between PHP78,900 to PHP 118,350 per month

You are considered Upper income (but not rich) - Between PHP 118,350 to PHP 157,800 per month

You are considered Rich - At least PHP 157,800 per month


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## liam27 (Jul 17, 2015)

I of course know you can 'survive' on less than 20k but surely you don't come here to struggle do you? Life can be extremely harsh here without money. 20k would have to pay all the costs of maintenance on 3 condos + a living income. 20k in my opinion is not enough. But good luck if he succeeds. We have just rented a 3 bed 2 toilet house reduced from 15k to 10k after being empty for 3 or 4 months. Our last house 2 bed two bath new build reduced from 11 to 6k


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## Lanhawk (Feb 25, 2015)

20K would be tight, but its really what you are willing to settle for. Get something under 8k a month to rent, no air con except at night or just a fan, no cable tv and stay away from malls and you might be able to pull it off. I will be under a tight budget myself when I fly home Aug 27th after a two year stay working in the U.S. My trump card is that I own my home so no rent for me, but still things will be tight, but its an adjustment I have to make, as my wife is far more savings minded than me. A couple of beers in my yard watching the sunset before dinner plus the love of a Filipina and I should be fine. Just take the advice of others, visit the where you want to stay, gets some prices then make a decision. Good Luck !!


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## liam27 (Jul 17, 2015)

I know an American and his wife living off 23k a month so i kniw its possible.my oint was relying on the continuous rent on two condos withe the maintanance fees the mainanance of each rented condo. If rent is missed or the condo is damaged, or just the gap between two rentals. I think 20k is not enogh of a buffer to pay for living costs and the cost of the rentals. Needs to do far more research. Come here for a month look at the tiny condos for sale and rent talk to lanlords get an idea jof running costs, bad debts gaps between rentals etc


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## M.C.A. (Feb 24, 2013)

Nice Lanhawk, I have the same table and drank the same beer yesterday evening with my wife.


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## galactic (Dec 2, 2014)

liam27 said:


> I know an American and his wife living off 23k a month so i kniw its possible.


How did you know? Did they tell you?

One thing I learned the hard way is never trust a story whomever the source.


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## Palawenio (Mar 4, 2014)

I went and summed up my family's expenses, and WAS I SURPRISED ! Roughly, (Canadian) $160 a month. Equivalent in Pesos is 5,696 at 35.6 exchange.. DANG!
That's food, electricity and transportation...and beer. 
I checked and re-checked the math to see if there was any error : there was none.
We own our home, mortgage free. Water is free from our deep-well. Our child goes to a public elementary school, free of tuition.


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## Sirrat (Jul 10, 2015)

Thank you


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## Sirrat (Jul 10, 2015)

How many people? And that in the province right? Thanks you


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## Sirrat (Jul 10, 2015)

mcalleyboy said:


> Your talking contractors and really there's no need, have it built yourself, you hire a crew and build your own spot, nobody in our neighborhood talks with contractors unless they have no other option because they're not living here but you'll be here so you can hire and fire as you like, we went through 3 crews before we found someone who could finish up the job the second crew was more professional and they set in the concrete supports, each support took a couple days to fabricate because of the steel bars they had to bend them so the skeletal inner supports and then board it up and poor in the concrete from the top.
> 
> If you have that kind of money terrific have a contractor build your home if you don't there's no need...Lol, you need to come here and see how things work and how they don't work.
> 
> ...


Well if its cheaper to build conventional homes, then yea conventional. If I'm only building for me, yes use the locals. But if I'm gonna do this on a commercial basis for income, I might want to use a reliable contractor..anyways that's getting way ahead f myself lol. Let me get there first. I'm not that worried about what I'm gonna do there. At least not this early. TY


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## Sirrat (Jul 10, 2015)

liam27 said:


> I of course know you can 'survive' on less than 20k but surely you don't come here to struggle do you? Life can be extremely harsh here without money. 20k would have to pay all the costs of maintenance on 3 condos + a living income. 20k in my opinion is not enough. But good luck if he succeeds. We have just rented a 3 bed 2 toilet house reduced from 15k to 10k after being empty for 3 or 4 months. Our last house 2 bed two bath new build reduced from 11 to 6k


Liam what area is that? You renting of selling? Or are you saying that's what your paying a month? Thanks


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## Palawenio (Mar 4, 2014)

Sirrat said:


> How many people? And that in the province right? Thanks you


You are welcome. Two adults and one child. Yes, we are in the province. 
We go to the town market to buy food supplies twice a week. That's basically the only time we spend money. Outside of that, we don't need to buy anything nor do we have a need to go somewhere. We are busy everyday with chores and activities at home that don't need spending. No, we do not live miserably nor are we spendthrifts. In fact, people here think we have money. haha.
What it boils down to is that our needs are simple : food, shelter, clothing, friends, and routine activities around the house that make us happy..
When you are happy, that is enough.. We don't rack our brains searching for things to want.


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## liam27 (Jul 17, 2015)

We pay 10k 3 bed 2 bathroom parking for rwo cars good size rooms. Last house was reduced from 11k to 8k. I just think renting out two house 10k each and relying on that 20k as your only income is going to be very difficult


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## Lanhawk (Feb 25, 2015)

I will be living on a small pension ( 190 US) for about six years until I can get social security. We also get 10K a month on a rental 2 bedroom 1 cr so yeah we will be living on just under 20 K a month but we do own our home so no rent or house payment. As its been said, it really what you are willing to settle for. We plan on making a small additional income having a small sari sari store from our house. Will definitely keep you informed on how we are doing starting at the end of this August.


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## pijoe (Jul 21, 2015)

My wife and I are able to bring in about $500/month with our small food stall in the market. Its hard work 12 hours a day but it is a family business. Most foreign owned businesses fail. Many local owned businesses fail also. Main culprit is Bali and Utang.


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## EuroBob (Feb 23, 2015)

lmetrucking said:


> My wife and I are able to bring in about $500/month with our small food stall in the market. Its hard work 12 hours a day but it is a family business. Most foreign owned businesses fail. Many local owned businesses fail also. Main culprit is Bali and Utang.


How are Bali and Utang causing businesses to fail in your area of the Philippines?


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## pijoe (Jul 21, 2015)

Bali is advancing an employee wages in advance, utang is extending credit to customers. It is difficult for locals to pay back their debt so you have to absorb it. At least we have a food buisness, so we always eat, and we give away food that we cant sell or based on someones need.


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## liam27 (Jul 17, 2015)

Not sure i could do what your doing working 12 hours a day. But good luck to you and your family.


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## Asian Spirit (Mar 1, 2010)

lmetrucking said:


> Bali is advancing an employee wages in advance, utang is extending credit to customers. It is difficult for locals to pay back their debt so you have to absorb it. At least we have a food buisness, so we always eat, and we give away food that we cant sell or based on someones need.


Very true; many live by making utangs and have little ability to repay. Even many of the sari-sari stores go under. Not always from giving credit but some people will refuse to use your store unless you do allow credit. Screwy system to put it mildly.

Anyway, welcome to the forum. Many good threads and topics here.


Jet Lag


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## pijoe (Jul 21, 2015)

Jet Lag said:


> Very true; many live by making utangs and have little ability to repay. Even many of the sari-sari stores go under. Not always from giving credit but some people will refuse to use your store unless you do allow credit. Screwy system to put it mildly.
> 
> Anyway, welcome to the forum. Many good threads and topics here.
> 
> ...


Thanks, Jet Lag. I don't physically work at the kalenderya. my wife spends a lot of time there but it is run by my brother and sister in law. My sister in law has been managing our affairs in the Philippines for 25 years. I am very fortunate to have close relatives that work hard and are honest. We couldn't do it without them.


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## Gary D (Oct 28, 2013)

Families in the Philippines can live on very low incomes until illness strikes.......then you die.


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## Palawenio (Mar 4, 2014)

Gary D said:


> Families in the Philippines can live on very low incomes until illness strikes.......then you die.


I have observed that the impoverished villagers in my area have developed very good immune system in their bodies. They hardly get sick in spite of long hours of physical labor and not enough nourishment. Go figure.

Every year, for each and every one of us, an anniversary passes by without us being aware of it... No, it's not our wife's birthday, haha.
It is the anniversary of our (future) death.


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## Gary D (Oct 28, 2013)

Palawenio said:


> I have observed that the impoverished villagers in my area have developed very good immune system in their bodies. They hardly get sick in spite of long hours of physical labor and not enough nourishment. Go figure.
> 
> Every year, for each and every one of us, an anniversary passes by without us being aware of it... No, it's not our wife's birthday, haha.
> It is the anniversary of our (future) death.


I know this is Wikipedia but I've no reason to disbelieve the information.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_life_expectancy

The UK where I'm from is joint 19th, the US joint 34th and the Philippines is down at joint 122nd with a life expectancy something like 12 years less. Life in the Philippines can't be that rosey for the locals.


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## galactic (Dec 2, 2014)

lmetrucking said:


> Thanks, Jet Lag. I don't physically work at the kalenderya. my wife spends a lot of time there but it is run by my brother and sister in law. My sister in law has been managing our affairs in the Philippines for 25 years. *I am very fortunate* to have close relatives that work hard and are honest. We couldn't do it without them.


Very fortunate indeed 

Where is your eatery located? I often go to San Narciso every weekends with my family.


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## galactic (Dec 2, 2014)

Gary D said:


> I know this is Wikipedia but I've no reason to disbelieve the information.
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_life_expectancy
> 
> The UK where I'm from is joint 19th, the US joint 34th and the Philippines is down at joint 122nd with a life expectancy something like 12 years less. Life in the Philippines can't be that rosey for the locals.


Very true.
It's a sad thing when some expats overlook the direness of the locals.
Often failing or outright refusing to extend a helping hand in fear of being scammed.


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## M.C.A. (Feb 24, 2013)

*Strong looking appearances*



Palawenio said:


> I have observed that the impoverished villagers in my area have developed very good immune system in their bodies. They hardly get sick in spite of long hours of physical labor and not enough nourishment. Go figure.
> 
> Every year, for each and every one of us, an anniversary passes by without us being aware of it... No, it's not our wife's birthday, haha.
> It is the anniversary of our (future) death.


I've noticed also, our neighbors are able to get up early working low wages jobs such as Calessa Boy (horse drawn cart full of small clams), <Snip>  small labor jobs but they all have something in common they look like they're lacking in health, body is not fit looking only skeletal skinny, they lose muscle from lack nutrition but yes they can get up every day and if they keep on with the trend they'll pass away early.

We have a new helper he's the husband of a family member and they are dirt poor, we need help with our roof and he's so skinny very little damage is done to the roof as he walks on it and makes hole repairs using Vulcaseal, we bought the Lake crab from a vendor that came by and my wife made it with coconut milk she gave him a half crab and his reply was "He didn't think he'd taste that every again until he died"  since then we've shared cooked meals with him gave him Pork soup yesterday (Pork nilaga).

Some of the Tagalog words used on the forum I've heard before but have no idea what they mean so I made sure for others to post the Tagalog word and then in parentheses the actual English meaning, found myself speaking Tagalog the other day to the helper and even he was surprised I had to speak the words in English for him to understand or? I guess I need to work on my accent.


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