# SRRV changes coming



## Hey_Joe (Sep 13, 2016)

The two Oct 21, 2020 articles below discuss the issues. 

Oct 21, 2020
https://cnnphilippines.com/news/2020/10/21/chinese-visitors-retirees-pastillas-scheme.html

October 21, 2020
https://www.pna.gov.ph/articles/1119225

These are the current SRRV's 

https://pra.gov.ph/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/SRRV-Info-Guide-04.14.15.pdf

This shows age requirements, pension programs in China. 
http://cis.ier.hit-u.ac.jp/English/society/conference1101/leckie-paper.pdf


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## Nate5182 (Sep 8, 2020)

As a 38 year old SRRV holder I hope I’m grandfathered in if they do up the age requirement.


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## M.C.A. (Feb 24, 2013)

Nate5182 said:


> As a 38 year old SRRV holder I hope I’m grandfathered in if they do up the age requirement.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Interesting Nate and welcome to the forum, your comments could help many on how you obtained your SRRV and your deposit amount.

I think this will come down to both serving the military and then living off a Medically discharged or Veteran assisted Medical support but if not I wouldn't worry too much because the records sure are poorly kept here and worst case scenario you'll have to switch up to another SRRV or get married.


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## Hey_Joe (Sep 13, 2016)

More SRRV articles, same subject.

https://newsinfo.inquirer.net/1351016/pra-told-to-scrap-retirement-age-requirement

https://newsinfo.inquirer.net/1350548/young-chinese-retirees-alarm-senators

https://newsinfo.inquirer.net/1349919/gordon-on-35old-chinese-retirees-in-ph

https://cnnphilippines.com/news/2020/10/20/Chinese-young-retirees-Philippine-Retirement-Authority0.html

https://businessmirror.com.ph/2020/10/21/editorial-nightmare-scenario/


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## M.C.A. (Feb 24, 2013)

How can Chinese military member come up with that amount $50,000? But from reading the article these Chinese Military Retiree's are buying condos and using the Condo as a means of a deposit for the SRRV.


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## Gary D (Oct 28, 2013)

M.C.A. said:


> How can Chinese military member come up with that amount $50,000? But from reading the article these Chinese Military Retiree's are buying condos and using the Condo as a means of a deposit for the SRRV.


Maybe sponsored by the Chinese government. Tibet all over again.


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## M.C.A. (Feb 24, 2013)

Gary D said:


> Maybe sponsored by the Chinese government. Tibet all over again.


Even though they probably don't have a large pension they should still be able to afford a condo and the other issue is the current administration feels they are working and taking jobs from citizens like in the gaming/construction industry.


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## M.C.A. (Feb 24, 2013)

Not good it looks like something will be done with the age requirements PRA halts application processing amid influx of Chinese ‘retirees’

Also on the Philippine Retirement Authority PRA website Philippine Retirement Authority


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## greenstreak1946 (May 28, 2017)

M.C.A. said:


> Interesting Nate and welcome to the forum, your comments could help many on how you obtained your SRRV and your deposit amount.
> 
> I think this will come down to both serving the military and then living off a Medically discharged or Veteran assisted Medical support but if not I wouldn't worry too much because the records sure are poorly kept here and worst case scenario you'll have to switch up to another SRRV or get married.


Holly crap---M.C.A. tells Nate he might have to get married to keep his SRRV. I hope he doesn't have to go down that route. I would rather jump into a live volcano then to marry another woman. hahahhahaha

art


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## Nate5182 (Sep 8, 2020)

greenstreak1946 said:


> Holly crap---M.C.A. tells Nate he might have to get married to keep his SRRV. I hope he doesn't have to go down that route. I would rather jump into a live volcano then to marry another woman. hahahhahaha
> 
> art


Lol, don’t worry. I won’t do anything drastic.


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## Hey_Joe (Sep 13, 2016)




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## Manitoba (Jun 25, 2014)

I predict that one of 2 things will happen with the 35 to 50 year old SRRV holders if and when the PRA deletes that group.

1) They will be grandfathered in no worries.

2) Their SRRV will be canceled and they will have to immediately get a different visa, however it will be unclear what type of visa to get, the announcement will be made on a Facebook posting, in Tagalog, with no direct notification to those impacted, the local BI offices will have no direction or clue on how to process the new applicants, you will need to go to the Manila office only to convert, the waiting and processing time will be weeks of daily appearances at the BI office,under constant threat of deportation, and you will have to wait a year or longer to get your deposit back. You will also have the option of hiring an agent who will take your money and run.

If the concern is Chinese abusing the process, then you can simply deny the sub 50 SRRV to Chinese citizens while retaining it for others. 

My guess is the reason for all the applicants is that they want some sort of safety escape to have a place to go if things get bad at home for them and that it is not a nefarious fifth column of Chinese agents infiltrating the country.


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## bigpearl (Jan 24, 2016)

Interesting observation Rick and perhaps poignant for the genuine recipients of what was once relatively simple. No hurry here and will simply wait and see.

Cheers, Steve.


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## PH-Expat (Oct 25, 2020)

I'm western with SRRV. I have to assume and hope that we will be grandfathered in from what I read, it seems they want to target Chinese with this. I also saw one rep in the news thinking the age should change the 40-49 so maybe I could make the cut for that.

However, I'm concerned they will just end the whole damn program. With only 10,500 principal retirees (and like 50% of them being Chinese) this program is a huge failure in my book, they never reach the numbers they hope and expect to get. I'm worried they just say the hell with it an cancel it all.

If I really did get the boot I would probably work on getting a 13 Quota, it's a better visa anyway with REAL and unrestricted ability to work (no permit needed). You are almost like a real person with it. It's a permanent visa vs an "indefinite" stay. You also get to keep your money.

The SRRV is a non immigrant visa that's why we only pay the travel tax after 1 year like other non residents, it's unclear if it would even be valid for eventually applying for naturalization. Not that I would want to give up my American passport.


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## Tiz (Jan 23, 2016)

I don't think it's unreasonable to expect anyone here saying that they have retired from proving where their funds some from.


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## PH-Expat (Oct 25, 2020)

Just got the email. They are pretending this is just for an normal ISO audit, but they are just freaking out and trying to make US provide them all the information they need for the big meeting next week. They don't even have a secure way to send the information. They want you to email it. They have my info. They make you declare its voluntary yet, say it mandatory. I'm not sure if I'm going to bother. How about you?


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## M.C.A. (Feb 24, 2013)

PH-Expat said:


> Just got the email. They are pretending this is just for an normal ISO audit, but they are just freaking out and trying to make US provide them all the information they need for the big meeting next week. They don't even have a secure way to send the information. They want you to email it. They have my info. They make you declare its voluntary yet, say it mandatory. I'm not sure if I'm going to bother. How about you?


Welcome to the forum PH-Expat and thanks for this information. The Philippine Retirement Authority has stopped taking new applications and I think renewals so they can fix their policy and IAW your message above they already know how many men are from the US it's something like 1700 living in country/outside Philippines who were issued a SRRV. Here's link with more information. Government suspends visa issuance to young ‘retirees’


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## Nate5182 (Sep 8, 2020)

PH-Expat said:


> Just got the email. They are pretending this is just for an normal ISO audit, but they are just freaking out and trying to make US provide them all the information they need for the big meeting next week. They don't even have a secure way to send the information. They want you to email it. They have my info. They make you declare its voluntary yet, say it mandatory. I'm not sure if I'm going to bother. How about you?
> 
> View attachment 98500
> 
> ...


Yep, I don’t know how many people they expect to reply in the two days they allow for. I will respond, but expect most will not.

Also... their PDF form is broken. They have a series of questions that require you to select a radio button to answer, but when you answer the subsequent question it clears you response for the previous one.


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## PH-Expat (Oct 25, 2020)

Nate5182 said:


> Yep, I don’t know how many people they expect to reply in the two days they allow for. I will respond, but expect most will not.
> 
> Also... their PDF form is broken. They have a series of questions that require you to select a radio button to answer, but when you answer the subsequent question it clears you response for the previous one.
> 
> ...


I'm torn if I will do it. I have nothing to hide, my income comes from abroad but I am in the offending age range. I don't want it to be a case of them just running with who ever submitted it for extra drama.


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## Nate5182 (Sep 8, 2020)

PH-Expat said:


> I'm torn if I will do it. I have nothing to hide, my income comes from abroad but I am in the offending age range. I don't want it to be a case of them just running with who ever submitted it for extra drama.


I’m in the same boat as you. They already know your age(now having the information and being able to easily produce it are two different things). In my experience it’s best to just flow with the bureaucracy... as frustrating as it is at times, but I understand your apprehension. 

The thing I find most amusing about this is that they seem to be focused on the Chinese working illegally in POGOs. If I had to guess, if that’s happening, it is probably far more likely that it is occurring more commonly on a standard tourist visa. You can stay in country for up to 3 years, no age requirement, if you just go to BI and ask for an extension. Just wait for the senators to “discover” that publicly available information and demand reform there as well. They are looking for someone to point the finger at and blame, the PRA is in the crosshairs, I hope they can stand up to the scrutiny.


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## Hey_Joe (Sep 13, 2016)

News today is PRA to benchmark average global retiree age Source: PRA to benchmark average global retiree age 

According to a 2018 OECD study, it shows The 2018 average normal retirement age across OECD countries for an individual with a full career and who entered the labour market at age 22 was equal to 63.5 years for women and 64.2 years for men 
Source: Current retirement ages | Pensions at a Glance 2019 : OECD and G20 Indicators | OECD iLibrary

Currently, SRRV holders are monitored via the barangay intelligence network, same as BI visa holders & residents. 
Source discusses village spies, or google barangay intelligence network. DILG plans to develop village spies, reporters | Ashley Manabat

BI also has their intel network who monitors BI Visa holders, who also must report to BI via annual reporting. It's been mentioned in articles Senators want the PRA who is under the DILG to create a system similar to BI to monitor SRRV holders.

Interesting times ahead for the SRRV program. Another interesting article: Source: The new Chinese migration to the Philippines: Inquirer columnist


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## PH-Expat (Oct 25, 2020)

Nate5182 said:


> They are looking for someone to point the finger at and blame, the PRA is in the crosshairs, I hope they can stand up to the scrutiny.


Based on them sending this out last minute, I have a suspicion that they don't have their house is very good order and might have real trouble standing up to the scrutiny. They are probably hard pressed to present a coherent and complete list of issued visas. I bet you the next email that will come after we send this in, is proof of funds coming from abroad. I have transferwise reciepts and bpi deposits that should hopefully cover that.

Like I was saying before though the program in my eye is a complete failure anyway with only 10,500 primary members, no one in congress even realized it existed, likewise almost no one recognizes my SRRV ID. I just worry they scrap the whole thing. They have lofty goals of 1 million retirees lmao, dream on !

I've loved having a legit visa these past years, never dealing with any of the drama, when I go the states customs says Welcome home! and when I land in PH they say the same. It's been really nice, instead of the game of 20 questions.

However, it was not cool how they did not recognize us as permanent residents and allow us back in to the country to the only place many of us have a residence (I never left so I didn't have to worry about it). Diminished the shine of the visa in my eyes.


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## PH-Expat (Oct 25, 2020)

Hey_Joe said:


> News today is PRA to benchmark average global retiree age Source: PRA to benchmark average global retiree age
> 
> According to a 2018 OECD study, it shows The 2018 average normal retirement age across OECD countries for an individual with a full career and who entered the labour market at age 22 was equal to 63.5 years for women and 64.2 years for men
> Source: Current retirement ages | Pensions at a Glance 2019 : OECD and G20 Indicators | OECD iLibrary
> ...


Wow the spies is a horrible idea based on how things go here. As for the yearly reporting, that does nothing for real monitoring anyway, that's just a cash grab and inconvenience to add that to the SRRV would be yet another downside to the program, very sad. The whole point of the SRRV is that you never step in to BI (or similar) ever again. 

It will be interesting for sure, I wish I had a better visa tho.


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## Hey_Joe (Sep 13, 2016)

PH-Expat said:


> Wow the spies is a horrible idea


BIN has been in place for years. Google it.

The trained members of the Barangay Intelligence Network (BIN) 
Recruitment Process Membership in the Volunteer Group is purely on a voluntary basis. Interested persons may file their applications for membership in the Office of the Chief of Police, who shall have direct management, supervision and control over said organization.A would-be volunteer must pass the screening test and should be willing to undergo the prescribed trainings. Training Applicants who are recruited as volunteers will undergo appropriate trainings on basic intelligence and gathering information, community security, self-defense, crime prevention, community policing, basic law and legislation, citizenship, and crime scene preservation. Functions Volunteers should have time to do volunteer work and attend meetings as called by the Chief of Police. Selected volunteers will be oriented on the program and will be specially trained by the police to assist in the following activities:1.Intelligence information gathering; 2.monitoring suspicious activities in the neighborhood; 3.detect and report incidences to the police through a social media mechanism; and4.gathering relevant information and data as inputs to peace and order planning and research. Monitoring and Recognition Likewise, a system to monitor and recognize volunteer contribution to police service will also be established by the stations


Source: page 56
https://www.napolcom.gov.ph/ExternalLink/Implementing Guidelines C.pdf


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## PH-Expat (Oct 25, 2020)

Hey_Joe said:


> BIN has been in place for years. Google it.
> 
> The trained members of the Barangay Intelligence Network (BIN)
> Recruitment Process Membership in the Volunteer Group is purely on a voluntary basis. Interested persons may file their applications for membership in the Office of the Chief of Police, who shall have direct management, supervision and control over said organization.A would-be volunteer must pass the screening test and should be willing to undergo the prescribed trainings. Training Applicants who are recruited as volunteers will undergo appropriate trainings on basic intelligence and gathering information, community security, self-defense, crime prevention, community policing, basic law and legislation, citizenship, and crime scene preservation. Functions Volunteers should have time to do volunteer work and attend meetings as called by the Chief of Police. Selected volunteers will be oriented on the program and will be specially trained by the police to assist in the following activities:1.Intelligence information gathering; 2.monitoring suspicious activities in the neighborhood; 3.detect and report incidences to the police through a social media mechanism; and4.gathering relevant information and data as inputs to peace and order planning and research. Monitoring and Recognition Likewise, a system to monitor and recognize volunteer contribution to police service will also be established by the stations
> ...


Thanks, I hear ya, but still wonder how much has really been deployed you know how things go here, a lot of great ideas and little execution. In my case they would have to be sub division spies, well every one is a spy of sorts here anyway. Oh well people always try to fault me to keeping a low profile around here, I still think that's the best thing to do. Some will take the route of engaging to feel more safe, but most of the trouble I've seen over the years are from people who got a little too involved. Keep em guessing!

Annual in person reports will really sour me on this though, nothing like locking up $20,000 forever and 360 a year for the privilege of "non entry" and now annual reports with no real authorization to work locally (u never know, might want to someday) ... 

I think most of you guys got in on the great military deal, that one can't be beat for sure.


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## PH-Expat (Oct 25, 2020)

Nate5182 said:


> Also... their PDF form is broken. They have a series of questions that require you to select a radio button to answer, but when you answer the subsequent question it clears you response for the previous one.


I see what you mean now. How are you going to handle it?


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## Nate5182 (Sep 8, 2020)

PH-Expat said:


> I see what you mean now. How are you going to handle it?


Well, I emailed them and asked them how they would like me to handle it, but I made the mistake of asking 2 questions in the email, so the only answered the easy one. I’m just making an “x” using the signing functionality of Adobe. Should be good enough. I don’t want to print and scan.


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## PH-Expat (Oct 25, 2020)

Nate5182 said:


> Well, I emailed them and asked them how they would like me to handle it, but I made the mistake of asking 2 questions in the email, so the only answered the easy one. I’m just making an “x” using the signing functionality of Adobe. Should be good enough. I don’t want to print and scan.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yeah...they are notorious for only answering 1 question per email.


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## PH-Expat (Oct 25, 2020)

Nate5182 said:


> Well, I emailed them and asked them how they would like me to handle it, but I made the mistake of asking 2 questions in the email, so the only answered the easy one. I’m just making an “x” using the signing functionality of Adobe. Should be good enough. I don’t want to print and scan.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Was your question what is the PRA ID number? They ask also for the SRRV No which I have, but I have no idea what the PRA ID number is??


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## Nate5182 (Sep 8, 2020)

PH-Expat said:


> Was your question what is the PRA ID number? They ask also for the SRRV No which I have, but I have no idea what the PRA ID number is??


Lol, yep. PRA number is the same as your SRRV number. I didn’t have the energy to ask why they ask for it twice calling it two different things...


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## PH-Expat (Oct 25, 2020)

Any updates guys?


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## Manitoba (Jun 25, 2014)

Nate5182 said:


> Lol, yep. PRA number is the same as your SRRV number. I didn’t have the energy to ask why they ask for it twice calling it two different things...
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I never bothered asking why they attached the form 3 times to me email.


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## pagbati (Apr 9, 2014)

4 times if you include the URL to the same form!


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## PH-Expat (Oct 25, 2020)

11 times here, and the form is broken. Maybe they want you return it in duplicate


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## PH-Expat (Oct 25, 2020)

They never even confirmed they got it haha.


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## Lunkan (Aug 28, 2020)

2 days until deadline!!! 
(Except when I expect something important) I check emails only twice per MONTH haha 
because mostly it's just spam.


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## PH-Expat (Oct 25, 2020)

They have created a site to gather and track PRA | Philippine Retirement Authority but they have not made it a secure site, so information you submit to this system can be observed and captured in transit.


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## 68whiskeymike6 (Jan 10, 2019)

Wow. I have a DD214 and close to reaching 50. This topic is interesting. Once again, it's the Chinese influencing things there. I hope the US Navy takes back Subic Bay asap. Never should have left at all. As a Filipino-American raised in the Philippines and doesn't qualify for dual citizenship (I was born in the U.S. before 1973) , this crap infuriates me. For people in my situation, they should give Filipino-Americans a pass. At least balikbayan Visa status. People in my age group or older that can't qualify for DC are in that retirement age range. Hello!? I know tons of them have their brown eyes on retiring in the islands. Get a clue, Philippines. Filipino-Americans are proud to be Filipino. Why are we being lumped with Chinese POGO workers or other foreigners? Hey, we have Filipino parents and in some cases grandparents from the Philippines born and raised. It's retarded and doesn't make sense business wise. Hang out with Filipino-Americans in California and tell me they are not proud to be Filipino? I think it's a travesty that the Philippines is making things hard for the original OFWs.


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## M.C.A. (Feb 24, 2013)

68whiskeymike6 said:


> Filipino-Americans are proud to be Filipino. Why are we being lumped with Chinese POGO workers or other foreigners? Hey, we have Filipino parents and in some cases grandparents from the Philippines born and raised. It's retarded and doesn't make sense business wise. Hang out with Filipino-Americans in California and tell me they are not proud to be Filipino? I think it's a travesty that the Philippines is making things hard for the original OFWs.


Whiskey the main reason is poverty the very poor here can't afford health care or can't afford to get sick by anyone including their own countrymen. The Health Care system was overwhelmed and we went back into a lock down in August because of it. 

I haven't heard much on the Chinese POGO workers or what's the fix on the age limits of the SRRV, that happens sometimes it's a big headline and then you never hear much after that.


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## 68whiskeymike6 (Jan 10, 2019)

M.C.A. said:


> Whiskey the main reason is poverty the very poor here can't afford health care or can't afford to get sick by anyone including their own countrymen. The Health Care system was overwhelmed and we went back into a lock down in August because of it.
> 
> 
> 
> I haven't heard much on the Chinese POGO workers or what's the fix on the age limits of the SRRV, that happens sometimes it's a big headline and then you never hear much after that.


Bro, thanks for the reply. But I was in the Philippines hanging out with my parents before Covid 19 and I tried to apply for DC in San Francisco back in 2018. So that's my rant and point. Come to find out I didn't qualify (missed that detail on the internet about being born before 1973) and I'm still shocked by that. I was told had I applied for DC when I turned 18, I would have qualified for that _sigh_ too bad we didn't have Expat Forum back in day lol. But yeah, I'm still perflexed on why somebody born AFTER 1973 qualifies for DC, and people before that year don't. Who the heck made that policy up? It reeks of age discrimination. I chuckle at my situation because I have siblings that qualify for that because they were born after 1973! I have another sibling older than me , but was born in the Philippines and qualifies for DC ...LMfAO. Out of all my siblings, I'm the one who visits my parents, studies and buys Filipino literature and history books(Holy Angel University), obsessed with anything Filipino on the net, studies Tagalog/Kapampangan, and recently lived there for 1.5 years + 5 years back in the 1970s and early 80s. F my life lol.


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## M.C.A. (Feb 24, 2013)

68whiskeymike6 said:


> Bro, thanks for the reply. But I was in the Philippines hanging out with my parents before Covid 19 and I tried to apply for DC in San Francisco back in 2018. So that's my rant and point. Come to find out I didn't qualify (missed that detail on the internet about being born before 1973) and I'm still shocked by that. I was told had I applied for DC when I turned 18, I would have qualified for that _sigh_ too bad we didn't have Expat Forum back in day lol. But yeah, I'm still perflexed on why somebody born AFTER 1973 qualifies for DC, and people before that year don't. Who the heck made that policy up? It reeks of age discrimination. I chuckle at my situation because I have siblings that qualify for that because they were born after 1973! I have another sibling older than me , but was born in the Philippines and qualifies for DC ...LMfAO. Out of all my siblings, I'm the one who visits my parents, studies and buys Filipino literature and history books(Holy Angel University), obsessed with anything Filipino on the net, studies Tagalog/Kapampangan, and recently lived there for 1.5 years + 5 years back in the 1970s and early 80s. F my life lol.


Why did you leave Lol if you don't mind me asking and sorry if I'm sounding nosy, I just am curious as to why those that were living here exited the country.


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## PH-Expat (Oct 25, 2020)

68whiskeymike6 said:


> Bro, thanks for the reply. But I was in the Philippines hanging out with my parents before Covid 19 and I tried to apply for DC in San Francisco back in 2018. So that's my rant and point. Come to find out I didn't qualify (missed that detail on the internet about being born before 1973) and I'm still shocked by that. I was told had I applied for DC when I turned 18, I would have qualified for that _sigh_ too bad we didn't have Expat Forum back in day lol. But yeah, I'm still perflexed on why somebody born AFTER 1973 qualifies for DC, and people before that year don't. Who the heck made that policy up? It reeks of age discrimination. I chuckle at my situation because I have siblings that qualify for that because they were born after 1973! I have another sibling older than me , but was born in the Philippines and qualifies for DC ...LMfAO. Out of all my siblings, I'm the one who visits my parents, studies and buys Filipino literature and history books(Holy Angel University), obsessed with anything Filipino on the net, studies Tagalog/Kapampangan, and recently lived there for 1.5 years + 5 years back in the 1970s and early 80s. F my life lol.


It has to do with the 1973 constitution changing things.


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## 68whiskeymike6 (Jan 10, 2019)

M.C.A. said:


> Why did you leave Lol if you don't mind me asking and sorry if I'm sounding nosy, I just am curious as to why those that were living here exited the country.


After a year and a half in the islands I wanted to work again. And I wanted to move away from California and see places. Man, it's cold where I'm currently at - the complete opposite of the Philippines! Plus my parents were driving me nuts!!! Miss my mom though. I'll be back when this Covid stuff goes away.


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## 68whiskeymike6 (Jan 10, 2019)

PH-Expat said:


> It has to do with the 1973 constitution changing things.


Yes. I was reading the Philippines Consulate dual citizenship requirements on their website again and it still makes me cringe in disgust. I was in San Francisco when I was 18/ 21 years old. Could have had my DC then on Sutter Street. SMDH. Plus I was around Filipinos practically every day and we never discussed citizenships requirements except for green cards lol. Too bad we didn't get official letters then to renew our overseas citizenship or I would have done it. No AOL or Yahoo then to research that stuff.


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## Hey_Joe (Sep 13, 2016)

Unintended consequences of the Special Resident Retiree’s Visa
November 24, 2020 
SOURCE: https://www.bworldonline.com/unintended-consequences-of-the-special-resident-retirees-visa/


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## 68whiskeymike6 (Jan 10, 2019)

Hey_Joe said:


> Unintended consequences of the Special Resident Retiree’s Visa
> November 24, 2020
> SOURCE: https://www.bworldonline.com/unintended-consequences-of-the-special-resident-retirees-visa/


Hmmm


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## Manitoba (Jun 25, 2014)

I posted this before, simply deny work permits to SRRV holders. Ger caught working immediate deportation and forfeiture of the deposit.

Lose property and belongings, too bad so sad, obey the rules next.


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## M.C.A. (Feb 24, 2013)

Manitoba said:


> I posted this before, simply deny work permits to SRRV holders. Ger caught working immediate deportation and forfeiture of the deposit.
> 
> Lose property and belongings, too bad so sad, obey the rules next.


I'm sort of interested on what is going to happen because so far nothing has happened but I don't think the Philippine government can do all that you posted because they're the ones that allowed them in legally so they'll have to figure out a way to fix this mess or end up with trade issues ect... from China. 

Not only do the thousands of Chinese take away jobs they also are a reckoning military force to deal with if things go sour, so I sure would like to know whats going to happen.


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## EdrigoSalvadore (Nov 25, 2020)

I would have applied to the SRRV Smile (35 yr old), this year, if it were not for the pandemic. My new plan is to cruise on the tourist visa, with 1 place in Angeles and 1 in Thailand, and spend 2-3 month in each place before transferring. I hope the SRRV will return.


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## 68whiskeymike6 (Jan 10, 2019)

EdrigoSalvadore said:


> I would have applied to the SRRV Smile (35 yr old), this year, if it were not for the pandemic. My new plan is to cruise on the tourist visa, with 1 place in Angeles and 1 in Thailand, and spend 2-3 month in each place before transferring. I hope the SRRV will return.


The tourist visa- renew every 2 months at the Marquee Mall in AC ain't so bad. I stayed in Pampanga for almost 2 years at my parents place in the midst of this Covid stuff since 2018 and returned CONUS 2020. At least the immigration office is located inside a mall where there's tons of food, restaurant, supermarket, and etc. Gets you out of the house to mingle if you're single or stay cool. The renewal every 2 months cost anywhere from $60 to $100 depending on the length of your stay. I should check my receipts and calculate. If you stay longer, you need an ACR ID card and must pay for exit clearance ( they want to make sure you don't owe the islands any dues) every 6 months which adds to the cost. Or something like that, I forget lol.


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## PH-Expat (Oct 25, 2020)

68whiskeymike6 said:


> The tourist visa- renew every 2 months at the Marquee Mall in AC ain't so bad. I stayed in Pampanga for almost 2 years at my parents place in the midst of this Covid stuff since 2018 and returned CONUS 2020. At least the immigration office is located inside a mall where there's tons of food, restaurant, supermarket, and etc. Gets you out of the house to mingle if you're single or stay cool. The renewal every 2 months cost anywhere from $60 to $100 depending on the length of your stay. I should check my receipts and calculate. If you stay longer, you need an ACR ID card and must pay for exit clearance ( they want to make sure you don't owe the islands any dues) every 6 months which adds to the cost. Or something like that, I forget lol.


There is a 6 months LSVVE extension available too (or was at one time) I never looked back after SRRV tho.



Manitoba said:


> I posted this before, simply deny work permits to SRRV holders. Ger caught working immediate deportation and forfeiture of the deposit.
> 
> Lose property and belongings, too bad so sad, obey the rules next.





M.C.A. said:


> I'm sort of interested on what is going to happen because so far nothing has happened but I don't think the Philippine government can do all that you posted because they're the ones that allowed them in legally so they'll have to figure out a way to fix this mess or end up with trade issues ect... from China.
> 
> Not only do the thousands of Chinese take away jobs they also are a reckoning military force to deal with if things go sour, so I sure would like to know whats going to happen.


I don't think the problem is them obtaining real alien employment permits, its just working under the table. So any actual reform in the system will need to find a way to verify where the money SRRV members are living from is coming from, probably need to submit proof of funds incoming from abroad with every renewal or yearly etc.


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## 68whiskeymike6 (Jan 10, 2019)

PH-Expat said:


> I'm western with SRRV. I have to assume and hope that we will be grandfathered in from what I read, it seems they want to target Chinese with this. I also saw one rep in the news thinking the age should change the 40-49 so maybe I could make the cut for that.
> 
> However, I'm concerned they will just end the whole damn program. With only 10,500 principal retirees (and like 50% of them being Chinese) this program is a huge failure in my book, they never reach the numbers they hope and expect to get. I'm worried they just say the hell with it an cancel it all.
> 
> ...





PH-Expat said:


> There is a 6 months LSVVE extension available too (or was at one time) I never looked back after SRRV tho.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I asked for the 6 months tourist visa extension while I was in the islands, but the guy working at the BI at the Marquee Mall at the time I was asking about it told me only 2 months TV extensions. Which to me was funny since I hear you guys saying you're all getting the 6 months privileges all the time.


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## bidrod (Mar 31, 2015)

68whiskeymike6 said:


> I asked for the 6 months tourist visa extension while I was in the islands, but the guy working at the BI at the Marquee Mall at the time I was asking about it told me only 2 months TV extensions. Which to me was funny since I hear you guys saying you're all getting the 6 months privileges all the time.


The 6 month visa can/could only be accomplished at certain immigration offices, which are listed on the BI website.

Chuck


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## 68whiskeymike6 (Jan 10, 2019)

bidrod said:


> The 6 month visa can/could only be accomplished at certain immigration offices, which are listed on the BI website.
> 
> Chuck


Okay. Thx for that update. Well, if you're at Angeles City, apparently they don't offer that at the Marquee Mall which sucks for foreigners there.


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## Manitoba (Jun 25, 2014)

PH-Expat said:


> ... So any actual reform in the system will need to find a way to verify where the money SRRV members are living from is coming from, probably need to submit proof of funds incoming from abroad with every renewal or yearly etc.


Easy to get around that, just pay the money into a foreign bank account then it is new money. If the foreigner is working for a foreign company all financial transactions can simply off shore.

In a largely cash based company, monitoring financial transactions will always be difficult for the tax man.

Hit violators, hit them hard and publicity and the rest wikl fall in line and comply.


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## EdrigoSalvadore (Nov 25, 2020)

68whiskeymike6 said:


> The tourist visa- renew every 2 months at the Marquee Mall in AC ain't so bad. I stayed in Pampanga for almost 2 years at my parents place in the midst of this Covid stuff since 2018 and returned CONUS 2020. At least the immigration office is located inside a mall where there's tons of food, restaurant, supermarket, and etc. Gets you out of the house to mingle if you're single or stay cool. The renewal every 2 months cost anywhere from $60 to $100 depending on the length of your stay. I should check my receipts and calculate. If you stay longer, you need an ACR ID card and must pay for exit clearance ( they want to make sure you don't owe the islands any dues) every 6 months which adds to the cost. Or something like that, I forget lol.


Yeah you´re right it isn´t too bad to do that, but there were many other benefits I was looking forward to in the SRRV Smile visa, such as PHILHEALTH coverage. I don´t know how much I will have to pay for a similar health insurance that covers people on tourist visa, I can assume a lot more Do you have any suggestion about health insurance? I am only 35 years old. 
I was also looking forward to get off the tourist visa, to be treated as a permanent stayer, and have the SRRV ID-card as well. I can imagine it would make life there a bit easier.


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## Gary D (Oct 28, 2013)

EdrigoSalvadore said:


> Yeah you´re right it isn´t too bad to do that, but there were many other benefits I was looking forward to in the SRRV Smile visa, such as PHILHEALTH coverage. I don´t know how much I will have to pay for a similar health insurance that covers people on tourist visa, I can assume a lot more Do you have any suggestion about health insurance? I am only 35 years old.
> I was also looking forward to get off the tourist visa, to be treated as a permanent stayer, and have the SRRV ID-card as well. I can imagine it would make life there a bit easier.


I believe PhilHealth is still open to you even as a tourist as long as you have an ACR card. P17000 per year instead of the P15000 for SRRV


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## Manitoba (Jun 25, 2014)

EdrigoSalvadore said:


> ....
> I was also looking forward to get off the tourist visa, to be treated as a permanent stayer, and have the SRRV ID-card as well. I can imagine it would make life there a bit easier.


It can actually make life harder in some ways. More people long stay on tourist visa and so have ACR cards. Many locals expect that ALL foreigners on long stay have one.

I have been refused bank accounts because I do not have an ACR card. One banker insisted that I provide an original copy of the MOA from the 80's exempting SRRV holders from having an ACR card.

I had a hassle getting internet connection because their form asked for the ACR card, which I of course do not have. They insisted that since ALL foreigners needed one I was here illegally and hinted that they would call the BI on me.

Overall it is a plus, easy entry pre-covid and only update every 3 years. When dealing with officials that know what it is it makes life easier.


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## 68whiskeymike6 (Jan 10, 2019)

Hey_Joe said:


> Currently, SRRV holders are monitored via the barangay intelligence network, same as BI visa holders & residents.
> Source discusses village spies, or google barangay intelligence network. DILG plans to develop village spies, reporters | Ashley Manabat
> 
> BI also has their intel network who monitors BI Visa holders, who also must report to BI via annual reporting. It's been mentioned in articles Senators want the PRA who is under the DILG to create a system similar to BI to monitor SRRV holders.
> ...


Wow. Not surprising. If you're a foreigner, I'm sure they'll keep an eye on you.


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## 68whiskeymike6 (Jan 10, 2019)

Gary D said:


> I believe PhilHealth is still open to you even as a tourist as long as you have an ACR card. P17000 per year instead of the P15000 for SRRV


Yup. I actually researched that for my mom and found out foreigners can get that as well for P17K a year. See , it ain't so bad living there on a TV. But I'd rather be a dual citizen because of principals personally of growing up there or self-entitlement sentiment.


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## EdrigoSalvadore (Nov 25, 2020)

Gary D said:


> I believe PhilHealth is still open to you even as a tourist as long as you have an ACR card. P17000 per year instead of the P15000 for SRRV


Is this a good health insurance, or are there better ones? Do you know how it works?

Edrigo Salvadore


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## Gary D (Oct 28, 2013)

EdrigoSalvadore said:


> Is this a good health insurance, or are there better ones? Do you know how it works?
> 
> Edrigo Salvadore


It's not a substitute for a proper health insurance, it's more of a discount scheme. The trouble with true heaith insurance is that they get very expensive as you get older and usually have an age cut-off. They're there to make money really and often don't cover pre-existing conditions.


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## EdrigoSalvadore (Nov 25, 2020)

Gary D said:


> It's not a substitute for a proper health insurance, it's more of a discount scheme. The trouble with true heaith insurance is that they get very expensive as you get older and usually have an age cut-off. They're there to make money really and often don't cover pre-existing conditions.


I am still young, 35, but I drive a lot of motorcycle so there is a risk of serious injury. I read a post about a filipino father who was on philhealth, and he needed heart surgery for 500k php, but philhealth would only cover 40k php, which is less than 10% of the total. I will spend my time roughly 50/50 in Phil and Thailand, so an insurance which covers both countries could be the best.


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## 68whiskeymike6 (Jan 10, 2019)

EdrigoSalvadore said:


> I am still young, 35, but I drive a lot of motorcycle so there is a risk of serious injury. I read a post about a filipino father who was on philhealth, and he needed heart surgery for 500k php, but philhealth would only cover 40k php, which is less than 10% of the total. I will spend my time roughly 50/50 in Phil and Thailand, so an insurance which covers both countries could be the best.


Here's one for you. Some HMO plans in the United States will reimburse you if you end up in an emergency department in the Philippines. I'm not an expert on that type of thing. Research that. I used to work for this hospital organization and one of the terms they used for patients using outside health services was "re-patriotization" to get them to seek care at our hospitals rather than others. Love the irony of that word.


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## EdrigoSalvadore (Nov 25, 2020)

68whiskeymike6 said:


> Here's one for you. Some HMO plans in the United States will reimburse you if you end up in an emergency department in the Philippines. I'm not an expert on that type of thing. Research that. I used to work for this hospital organization and one of the terms they used for patients using outside health services was "re-patriotization" to get them to seek care at our hospitals rather than others. Love the irony of that word.


Yeah would that even work for me? I am from Sweden, not the US...


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## pijoe (Jul 21, 2015)

My ( now ex.) wife was born in 1967. Became naturalized US citizen, then a dual citizen regaining her Phil. passport. Did not run into the born before 73 issue.


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## pinecrest (Dec 19, 2020)

Manitoba said:


> I posted this before, simply deny work permits to SRRV holders. Ger caught working immediate deportation and forfeiture of the deposit.
> 
> Lose property and belongings, too bad so sad, obey the rules next.


I would respectfully disagree with this comment. The eligibility to work, study, and invest was given as a part of the SRRV. That was initially part of the deal. Many of us SRRV holders have legally filed and been officially approved AEP document with legal sponsorship and oftentimes doing work that no locals can do. In my case, I actually technically don't need to source my income in the Philippines, but I choose to hire a company as an employer of record to sponsor me locally and I wire money through my company abroad into the Philippines so that I can in theory be a good samaritan, have a local taxpayer record, and pay some local taxes. If work permits are denied, then I would simply source all my income abroad legally (since my company technically does not really have any operations in the Philippines) and Philippines government gets nothing. I would imagine that if legal work permits are being denied, more people would also resort to working "illegally"or in gray areas. I don't think that would be the intended consequence. Catch the illegal POGOS, but please leave the honest people alone.


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## pinecrest (Dec 19, 2020)

Hey_Joe said:


> Unintended consequences of the Special Resident Retiree’s Visa
> November 24, 2020
> SOURCE: https://www.bworldonline.com/unintended-consequences-of-the-special-resident-retirees-visa/


While I tend to agree with some of the article's points, such as around curbing POGOs, I must respectfully disagree with the assertion about SRRV holders with legal employment being a negative consequence. Many of us working under legal AEP pay more tax to the government than many locals do and contribute to the formal economy. 

Sure, let's curb the illegal POGOs (who, by the way, are NOT mostly on SRRV program), but please kindly leave honest people who contribute tax revenue and consumption to the local government and economy alone. 

There is also the potential unintended consequence of risk of backlash against OFWs and other hardworking overseas Filipinos in other places if this ends up being a politically motivated targeting based on nationality or a populist anti-foreigner measure here in the Philippines. Hopefully, that should be avoided.


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## Lunkan (Aug 28, 2020)

Well. The *purpouse *of the SRRV is to simplify VISA for *retired*, who perhaps want to work some,
*not* to be used to *get around *the work permit law for young *not *retired... 
The problem can be *easy solved  *by *not *include the work permit *automaticly* in SRRV, but with possibility to apply for work permit following the *normal *rules. 
But because of it was included when the SRRV deals were made it need some nicer handling to get work permit for the* old* people with SRRV, who work *part time allready*, so e g their business don't break by the change or so they don't lose an compleeting income from part time employment needed to afford what they have.


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## Manitoba (Jun 25, 2014)

Keep the retirement visa an actual retirement visa, use some sort of investor or worker visa for those that intend to work.


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## pinecrest (Dec 19, 2020)

Lunkan said:


> Well. The *purpouse *of the SRRV is to simplify VISA for *retired*, who perhaps want to work some,
> *not* to be used to *get around *the work permit law for young *not *retired...
> The problem can be *easy solved  *by *not *include the work permit *automaticly* in SRRV, but with possibility to apply for work permit following the *normal *rules.
> But because of it was included when the SRRV deals were made it need some nicer handling to get work permit for the* old* people with SRRV, who work *part time allready*, so e g their business don't break by the change or so they don't lose an compleeting income from part time employment needed to afford what they have.


Having the SRRV does NOT automatically include a work permit. One still has to go through the process of getting a local company sponsorship and applying for a work permit (Alien Employment Pass). You can argue that the SRRV allows people to bypass getting the 9G visa from immigration, but that's separate from the work permit itself, which is handled by DOLE (Department of Labor and Employment). As far as the Alien Employment Pass is concerned, an SRRV holder will still have to go through the normal application and approval process.


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## pinecrest (Dec 19, 2020)

Manitoba said:


> Keep the retirement visa an actual retirement visa, use some sort of investor or worker visa for those that intend to work.


I respectfully disagree, as it would potentially backfire more. What about the 50+ experienced retiree who a local Filipino company wants to get as a part time consultant?

First, a visa is a visa; in most countries, the ability to work is conferred by a department of labor or employment in the form of a work permit. These are separate things in theory.

Right now, the SRRV does NOT automatically come with approval to work or a work permit. Currently, SRRV holders who want to work still have to get local company sponsorship and apply for the Alien Employment Pass anyways. Having a SRRV does not make that process easier. And why should SRRV holders who already have legal residence in the Philippines and already go through the normal Alien Employment Pass application process to get approval by DOLE (Department of Labor and Employment) have to apply for another 9G visa to stay? That would be excess bureaucracy.

So let's then look at the argument that SRRV holders should not be eligible to get a work permit. I think it would be ok for DOLE (Department of Labor and Employment) to raise conditions of approval for SRRV holders who intend to apply for a work permit and reject some work permit applications that don't meet these conditions. That's fair and within their right, and probably the easiest way if they want to deny some SRRV workers. But to outright deny SRRV holders the right to apply for a work permit would require more systematic changes and open other cans of worms. So people can apply for a Special Work Permit on a tourist or short term visa but cannot be allowed to apply to a work permit on a SRRV?

And let's look at it from another perspective. Less than 30% of the country actually pays taxes. The work permit (which again SRRV holders intending to work must apply for) allows the government to better track people who work and allows the government to more easily collect income taxes. By denying SRRV holders work permits, there would be the unintended consequence that these people would be denied a legal way of reporting their income and paying taxes. Many of the jobs and work done by expats cannot be done by locals anyways, so I'd argue that the whole "SRRVs coming to compete against locals argument" is to an extent politically-motivated populism. Most of the POGOs don't do SRRV and most of the so called Chinese don't really live and work here in the Philippines (getting that SRRV for many Chinese amounts to a second home/condo/way to stash cash...on a separate topic, I would argue targeting based on nationality would be unwise, as it would likely cause backlash against OFWs and overseas Filipinos even in places like Macau or Hong Kong, where there are many).


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## M.C.A. (Feb 24, 2013)

pinecrest said:


> Having the SRRV does NOT automatically include a work permit. One still has to go through the process of getting a local company sponsorship and applying for a work permit (Alien Employment Pass). You can argue that the SRRV allows people to bypass getting the 9G visa from immigration, but that's separate from the work permit itself, which is handled by DOLE (Department of Labor and Employment). As far as the Alien Employment Pass is concerned, an SRRV holder will still have to go through the normal application and approval process.


Welcome to the forum Pinecrest and hope to hear more about your knowledge with the SRRV and also the requirement for the Work Permit, you seem to have it correct from what I've researched before.


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## pinecrest (Dec 19, 2020)

M.C.A. said:


> Welcome to the forum Pinecrest and hope to hear more about your knowledge with the SRRV and also the requirement for the Work Permit, you seem to have it correct from what I've researched before.


Thanks M.C.A., it's good to have found a community of expats here in the Philippines. I'd be happy to share any information on the AEP application experience or connect anyone with very reputable local lawyer references should anyone need them.

Here is my analysis and hypothesis of the situation with SRRV: I think any major changes to SRRV may potentially backfire to actually be unfavorable to government interests, cause more unintended consequences, and even potential backlash - without really solving any of the original issues noted. I will examine topics one by one:

1) SRRV employment. Well...again, most POGOs don't pursue the SRRV (some don't even stay that long) and most Chinese who get SRRV are likely there to stash money/find second condo home...many don't really work in the Philippines (wages are too low here). As discussed earlier, SRRV does not come with alien employment...SRRV holders still have to apply for the Alien Employment Permit (AEP) like any other person and find a local sponsoring company. The so called "eligibility to work" is just an "eligibility" to apply for the AEP and not having to do extra paperwork with 9G visa through immigration (which makes sense, since you are already on a permanent visa and it's the AEP from DOLE (Department of Labor and Employment) that grants ability to work here). So..
A) If they decide to force SRRVs who work to covert to 9G, it doesn't make much sense procedurally (people are already here on permanent visa!), and that would also mean a dissolution of the SRRV deposits and net financial loss for the government.
B) If they decide to deny SRRVs from applying for Alien Employment Permit (i.e. ineligible to apply), that would backfire by reducing legal tax income the government would have otherwise collected (given the low enforceability elsewhere and fact that many experienced 35+ year old expat work cannot be easily replaced by locals, as we are not talking about entry level stuff), plus systematically it would cause confusion elsewhere with eligibility of other non-9G visas allowed to apply for AEP/SWP.
C) So...realistically, applications of SRRVs for Alien Employment Permit approval can be put under closer review by DOLE (Department of Labor and Employment)...so that DOLE should examine that no local can conveniently perform the work. But, that condition is already a part of the whole AEP review and approval process, and SRRVs are not except from this review.

2) SRRV age limits. Let's look at some ball park numbers. According to statistics reported publicly, there are 27678 Chinese SRRVs, a majority in the bracket closer to 35-49. Let's for simplicity conservatively assume that would be 51% of 27678, which is 14115. The other nationalities together comprise 42342 SRRVs, and let's conservatively assume only 25% falls under 35-49, so that's 10586. So that's 14115 + 10586 = 24701. Again, conservatively assuming that these are 20,000 USD deposits (could be more, with 50,000, for many of them), that's 24701 x 20000 = 494,020,000 USD, or around 24 billion pesos, which is by all accounts, still not an insignificant number. Again, I used conservative estimates, so the actual dollar or peso deposit number for all the 35-49 bracket members should be higher. And this estimate doesn't account for the other types of economic net positive impact, such as hiring of local domestic workers as well as other types of consumption behaviour. Hence, I argue that the dissolution of these members would not be favorable to the government at a time when the country needs money coming in to sustain the economy amid a pandemic. So, my guess would be that existing SRRV holders would be grandfathered in. That would be more favorable to the government.

3) Nationality targeting. Regardless of political positions, objectively speaking, I think politically-motivated nationality targeting is potentially dangerous, at a time when more and more OFWs and overseas Filipinos are seeking employment abroad. I would worry about potential backlash against OFWs and overseas Filipinos in places such as Macau, Hong Kong, or mainland China, where many Filipinos are having gainful employment/residence and remitting money back home (130,000 overseas Filipinos in Hong Kong alone, and way over 200,000 Filipinos in mainland China's informal economy). So, again, it would arguably not be a favorable situation to pursue.

So, in summary, my case is that major changes to SRRV would likely be unfavorable to the government. It still doesn't really solve the POGO situation, which we can mostly agree should be curbed, as most POGOs don't pursue SRRV. National security concerns, while understandable, would not really be resolved by targeting SRRV, which is primarily an investment and economic vehicle. There are many other more direct ways to put more POGOs accountable (after all, even China bans them) and with security, it comes down to more close monitoring programs with police or BI - these really would not fall into the realm of the PRA and SRRV.


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## Lunkan (Aug 28, 2020)

pinecrest said:


> Having the SRRV does NOT automatically include a work permit. One still has to go through the process of getting a local company sponsorship and applying for a work permit (Alien Employment Pass). You can argue that the SRRV allows people to bypass getting the 9G visa from immigration, but that's separate from the work permit itself, which is handled by DOLE (Department of Labor and Employment). As far as the Alien Employment Pass is concerned, an SRRV holder will still have to go through the normal application and approval process.


 Oh. Then this info is missleading:


> The *SRRV* is a lifetime visa and its *holders* are exempt from Bureau of Immigration requirements. *SRRV*-*holders* are also eligible to *work*, study or invest in the *Philippines*.
> 
> *Philippine Retirement Authority*


 If it is as you say, then they "forgot" to tell the SRRV holder need to get work permit as everyone else. Extra missleading by SRRV holders sure *don't* need any extra permit to * invest* in Phils (if not aiming at geting some extra benifit from that as e g get into Phils now, which SRRV aren't allowed to but SIRV are.)

So if not geting work permit by SRRV, *how come the arguement a reason to stop/change SRRV is to stop young Chineese "retiree" from work in Phils???*


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## bigpearl (Jan 24, 2016)

Hi and welcome to the this forum pinecrest, I appreciate the effort that you have put in with your opinions and wisdom on this topic, much to think about.
As a lowly plebeian I have looked at this visa (SRRV) with the PRA for many years, I have looked at the SIRV also. For me and I am sure many others the intricacies for the humble man to simply retire here are met with difficulties and tying up funds that would/could otherwise be injected into the Filipino economy instead of sitting in a bank earning a half percent interest to the depositor while the holders of those funds are earning 10%. Welcome to the Philippines.

I have done the sums like many others and only my opinion as a retiree not interested to find a job or income, the pickings are slim, for those interested to try to take advantage? Upgrade the rules/parameters.
Work/investment visas are available.
For the average retiree (me) I will continue to visit my local immi office every 59 days because I am better off financially earning 10% on my money in Oz. While we are out renewing my visa we visit the shops that are 40 minutes away. Look what I found honey.

Work/investment streams or what ever you think can make you money in this country......... good luck, brighter brains have it down pat and may take you to the cleaners, I simply want a retirement visa without the jail bars. I think there needs to be some delineation. Perhaps one day?

OMO.

Cheers. Steve.


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## bigpearl (Jan 24, 2016)

BTW, pinecrest, there are a few tossers on this site.

Cheers, Steve


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## pinecrest (Dec 19, 2020)

Lunkan said:


> Oh. Then this info is missleading:
> If it is as you say, then they "forgot" to tell the SRRV holder need to get work permit as everyone else. Extra missleading by SRRV holders sure *don't* need any extra permit to * invest* in Phils (if not aiming at geting some extra benifit from that as e g get into Phils now, which SRRV aren't allowed to but SIRV are.)
> 
> So if not geting work permit by SRRV, *how come the arguement a reason to stop/change SRRV is to stop young Chineese "retiree" from work in Phils???*


Correct, this is why I am scratching my head at times reading all the fuzz and rhetoric on "foreigners" coming in to take jobs through SRRV. It is very much populist rhetoric and hysteria. SRRV holders would have to get local company sponsorship/petition and go through the normal Alien Employment Permit process anyways, a process through which DOLE will review and try to stamp out any application that may be competing with local for entry level job. It is no different from getting a work permit in most countries. The "eligibility to work" means eligibility to apply for the Alien Employment Permit through DOLE and not having existing permanent visa holders to duplicate visa efforts by getting the 9G visa through BI (the 9G work visa normally requires also getting the Alien Employment Permit). Other than the 9G visa (procedurally, it makes no sense for permanent visa holders to have to get another less permanent visa), the steps are almost exactly the same in terms of getting the Alien Employment Permit.

On your question about young Chinese retirees working...again, most of the Chinese arguably don't come here to work, or live permanently for that matter. Wages here are too low compared to, say, Shenzhen or Shanghai. The SRRV is oftentimes a way for Chinese to transfer money out of China and buy an overseas second home/condo investment; and for other Chinese business people who do business often with Philippines, it is a convenient document to have. So in terms of attracting investment/money/business to the Philippines, the PRA and SRRV are doing exactly that. Much of the arguments we read in media are arguably politically motivated and populist rather than being objective. I don't deny that what some of the allegations say may be true - I don't know one way or another - but I doubt that it would be so widespread as claimed for SRRV.


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## pinecrest (Dec 19, 2020)

bigpearl said:


> Hi and welcome to the this forum pinecrest, I appreciate the effort that you have put in with your opinions and wisdom on this topic, much to think about.
> As a lowly plebeian I have looked at this visa (SRRV) with the PRA for many years, I have looked at the SIRV also. For me and I am sure many others the intricacies for the humble man to simply retire here are met with difficulties and tying up funds that would/could otherwise be injected into the Filipino economy instead of sitting in a bank earning a half percent interest to the depositor while the holders of those funds are earning 10%. Welcome to the Philippines.
> 
> I have done the sums like many others and only my opinion as a retiree not interested to find a job or income, the pickings are slim, for those interested to try to take advantage? Upgrade the rules/parameters.
> ...


Thanks Steve, I empathize a lot with what you say. Personally, I just want to have peace with wife and family. In my case, no local will be able to do what I do for work, and I also do the AEP so that I can establish a local tax payer record (I probably pay more taxes than most locals do) and employer of record (I hire a company to be local employer of record, so I am definitely NOT competing against a local for a job, and in fact, I am enabling local jobs as the client of the local employer of record I hire)...Each of us have different ways of using our visas - legally - to do what we need to do. There are also many people who don't do the SRRV or SIRV at all and get by just fine, as it is also favorable for the local government and BI to continue to accept renewal fees for other types of visas - that can also be a win-win for everybody. Southeast Asia is a great place if everyone can just get along and establish these win-win scenarios in which the foreigner gets what he/she comes for and along the way contributes to the local economy in some way. Then...unfortunately at times, populism and politics get in the way.


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## Lunkan (Aug 28, 2020)

pinecrest said:


> establish these win-win scenarios in which the foreigner gets what he/she comes for and along the way contributes to the local economy in some way.


 As I tought a Filipina to do with her money instead so she stoped get credit losses and made so both she and them she financed earned good. And as I have started doing in my business.


bigpearl said:


> tying up funds that would/could otherwise be injected into the Filipino economy instead of sitting in a bank earning a half percent interest to the depositor


 As often you are wrong... SRRV deposits are allowed to be *invested* in Phils...


bigpearl said:


> BTW, pinecrest, there are a few tossers on this site.


 Says the BS specialist, who for instance:
/Claiming insinuatingly my allready started business is hypothetical!!!
/went on claiming I hadn't told the sourse, although I had told it three times in that topic before he claimed that!!!
/claimed I'm wrong concerning a law thingy, although it's *proven *I were right, he arguing I had to be wrong because a common Filipino didn't know of that law!!! while I have *studied Phil laws in years*.. (Real estate, business and tax laws mainly, plus some for foreigners dangerous laws, not even being counted as criminal in our home countries.) In same topic as he claimed I'm wrong, he thanked an other, who told same thing as I had told earlier already!!! 

So who is the tosser...? 🤣


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## Nate5182 (Sep 8, 2020)

Lunkan said:


> As often you are wrong... SRRV deposits are allowed to be *invested* in Phils...



Depends on the SRRV. I am a Smile holder, so my deposit cannot be invested.


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## bigpearl (Jan 24, 2016)

Nate5182 said:


> Depends on the SRRV. I am a Smile holder, so my deposit cannot be invested.


Correct Nate.

So we are all on the same page, SRRV deposits can be invested. 10, 20 and 50K deposits so Lunkan is correct but we need to clarify the restrictions on investing those funds to weigh up if it is an investment or a hindrance.

Deposits with the PRA can be converted to a property (only a condominium can be in a foreigners name) or a long term lease and the value of either of these must be minimum US 50K, makes sense. 
The difficulty with using your deposit for these scenarios is that the PRA are listed on the title or lease, legally encumbered, this takes time and money to accomplish, then if you decide to pull out of the SRRV program the title or lease documents have to be converted back, more time and money, or wish to sell the condo or lease and retain your SRRV status then you must return the funds back into an approved PRA deposit to remove the encumbrance before you can sell, time and money.
OMO but I can think of less painful situations. 
Perhaps I have missed something and I am sure other more astute members can offer up alternative conversions of the PRA deposit for other approved investments?

Cheers, Steve.


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## Hey_Joe (Sep 13, 2016)

Regarding SRRV. The criteria for what is being discussed is under review and new issuance is suspended.

What may have been in the past may no longer be in the future. Will there even be an SRRV program in the future.


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## pinecrest (Dec 19, 2020)

Hey_Joe said:


> Regarding SRRV. The criteria for what is being discussed is under review and new issuance is suspended.
> 
> What may have been in the past may no longer be in the future. Will there even be an SRRV program in the future.


I think the total SRRV member number and the total deposit amount, though not astronomical, are also arguably significant numbers. For a government struggling to deal with a pandemic and economic recession, axing SRRV may not be a priority, nor would it be financially desirable. It would be unfavorable to trigger a mass event resulting in money flowing out of the country - even though the total amount is not astronomical, it is not insignificant either.

So if I had to guess, I would guess most existing members are grandfathered in.

Sure, there could be new requirements for new applications in the future. It is also possible that the program may be under a different department all together in the future, with greater oversight and monitoring. But I would surmise that there won't be a massive disruptive axing or a change that impacts thousands of people at once...it just feels unnecessarily costly for the government at a time when the country needs money coming in, not the other way around.

My guess is that these are difficult decisions for the administration. At a time when the country is increasingly dependent on revenue and remittances from OFWs, nationalistic targeting can be dangerous in terms of risks of backlash against OFWs and overseas Filipinos elsewhere in the world in a quid pro pro. A major disruptive decree across the board would also not be favorable financially speaking. I actually think the smartest way would be to let this "storm" to quietly fizzle and for there to be incremental updates without shaking things up too much all at once.


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## Gary D (Oct 28, 2013)

pinecrest said:


> I think the total SRRV member number and the total deposit amount, though not astronomical, are also arguably significant numbers. For a government struggling to deal with a pandemic and economic recession, axing SRRV may not be a priority, nor would it be financially desirable. It would be unfavorable to trigger a mass event resulting in money flowing out of the country - even though the total amount is not astronomical, it is not insignificant either.
> 
> So if I had to guess, I would guess most existing members are grandfathered in.
> 
> ...


Doesn't this assume an ability to do joined up thinking.


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## pijoe (Jul 21, 2015)

As I see it the problem is that Bureau of Internal Revenue (BIR) has the ultimate authority on visas and the SRRV visa is not recognized by the BIR. This is the core issue. Please correct me if I'm wrong. There is a lot of information here about the cans and cents of the SRRV visa but to me it seems the very foundation of the program is the typical illusory facade of B.S. so common here.


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## pinecrest (Dec 19, 2020)

pijoe said:


> As I see it the problem is that BIR has the ultimate authority on visas and the SRRV visa is not recognized by the BIR. This is the core issue. Please correct me if I'm wrong. There is a lot of information here about the cans and cents of the SRRV visa but to me it seems the very foundation of the program is the typical illusory facade of B.S. so common here.


Did you mean BI (Bureau of Immigration)? BIR (Bureau of Internal Revenue) is a tax collecting agency. SRRV who source income from the Philippines still pay to BIR...it's no different (other than the tax exemptions allowed). The SRRV issuance to any SRRV application must be endorsed by the Bureau of Immigration (BI) - that's already a part of the existing process. Upon issuance of the SRRV, in addition to the SRRV card, the SRRV person would get a one page SRRV stamp from Bureau of Immigration on his/her passport. Exit and entry from/to the Philippines requires the SRRV participant to show both the SRRV card (issued by the Philippines Retirement Authority) as well as the passport SRRV stamp (issued by the Bureau of Immigration).


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## pinecrest (Dec 19, 2020)

Gary D said:


> Doesn't this assume an ability to do joined up thinking.


Good point. Ultimately, if the government dissolves SRRV all at once, the money to release the deposits need to come from somewhere. Again, not astronomical numbers, but it would trigger a minor "bank run" effect out of the country. That is from common sense not desirable, no matter what agency we are talking about.


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## bigpearl (Jan 24, 2016)

pinecrest said:


> Good point. Ultimately, if the government dissolves SRRV all at once, the money to release the deposits need to come from somewhere. Again, not astronomical numbers, but it would trigger a minor "bank run" effect out of the country. That is from common sense not desirable, no matter what agency we are talking about.


This type of visa has been around for 35 years and until 2009,,,,,,,, well read the attached link to get a better idea.









Unintended Consequences of the Special Resident Retiree’s Visa


The Philippines prides itself on its tropical weather, pristine beaches, thousand islands, scenic natural wonders, delicious local cuisine, and…




tinyurl.com





It would appear from what I see that the recent excess influx of some foreign nationals taking advantage of this visa have now come under senate scrutiny and the PRA are bearing the brunt, perhaps the rising numbers should have raised alarm bells for the PRA but ultimately DOLE.

Given over half a billion dollars and I assume it's US (maybe wrong) they have quoted they will sort this out, change some of the parameters and continue to offer this type of retirement visa. How long? Who could guess the way the wheels turn here.

OMO.

Cheers, Steve.


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## pinecrest (Dec 19, 2020)

bigpearl said:


> This type of visa has been around for 35 years and until 2009,,,,,,,, well read the attached link to get a better idea.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Good feedback Steve, thanks for sharing that article again. I have read it before. While I understand and have to an extent some empathy for the central goals pointed out in that article, I would objectively say the article actually sheds light to more underlying question marks and arguably logic flaws to allegations, and it makes the situation not so black-and-white:

1) The article praises benefits of the SRRV program, pointing out that "the PRA reported that the total foreign currency generated for [2018] amounted to $225,345,304.40." Then it points out about the recent excess influx from certain nationalities. Well...if we put 1 + 1 together, one hypothesis may be that there is a real causal relationship between those two points. Politics aside, it does feel a bit like "we want to take your money, but we just don't want you as a client," which is a bit hypocritical. $225,345,304.40 is not astronomical, but it's not an insignificant number either, especially in today's economic recession environment.

2) The article talks against POGOs, and I think most of us are also against the relative unregulated nature of POGOs, but what's not clear is how many POGOs actually go through the SRRV program compared to much easier, less costly types of entry, especially if some of these POGOs aren't on a permanent basis anyways? It is also not clear how many of the POGOs actually get an AEP and go through DOLE (I would suspect DOLE may probably reject a large number of those applications to begin with). I would hypothesize that the answer for both questions may be, it's a fairly small percentage (I don't know, just a guess...based on surmising human and institutional incentives/disincentives...if you are POGO, would you even bother with some of these procedures?)

3) The article makes it sound like young retirees are eager to compete against locals in employment. Given the low wages here in the Philippines and what jobs expats typically do, I have serious doubts about that. And for the few who do take up employment, likely stuff locals won't or can't do (DOLE reviews and approves any AEP application from SRRV before they can start working), why won't the government want to legally take income tax? It just feels a very bad idea to cut off fairly direct and legal means of these foreigners to legally pay taxes. (Sure, there's the 9G work visa, but the core process is the DOLE AEP approval, which SRRVs are not exempt from to begin with).

So, I think whoever made allegations are asking the wrong questions and scrapgoating the wrong department.


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## bigpearl (Jan 24, 2016)

From my initial reads when this all started,,,,,, in the senate,,,,, hands were raised and ignorance feigned and my take is the PRA were blamed, even though the PRA have been around for 35 years,,,,,,, whether through ignorance etc. Perhaps the or many fingers can be pointed at other government bodies for their own complacency with the unfolding and lack of policing with these recent events.
For me? I don't have nor now will enquire about a retirement visa until the dust settles, mind, I would not have done anyway until I decide to draw a pension still some years away.
For those on a pension prepared to lock up US 10K ( I eventually would have been a participant ) but will now wait and see. All including the government,,,,,, from all walks and denominations in reality have to look at the big picture regardless of those wishing to avail the retirement visa or those like myself simply living here on a tourist visa, the extra capitol spending surely accounts for something? 
Our latest resident (stuck in England at the moment) has invested/spent at a guess 25 to 30M pesos on their new house, the one before (last year) from the US; Different property similarly is stuck in the states,,,,,,,, while I have no idea of the visa type they availed there have been a few bucks invested in the local economy and while we intend to spend some measily10M pesos for extensions in the next year or so, the local economy benefits and perhaps not only the PRA but DOLE and immi, probably a plethora of others that feel the need to get involved go back to the drawing board and as said look at the big picture and weed out the rubbish.

OMO.

Cheers, Steve.


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## Manitoba (Jun 25, 2014)

I suspect that there may be some infighting between the PRA and the BI. It never made any sense to me that something like the SRRV would not be a BI program, all visa programs should come under one agency. 

The fact that SRRV holders are not allowed reentry into the country tells me that the PRA lost that bureaucratic bun fight.


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## pinecrest (Dec 19, 2020)

Manitoba said:


> I suspect that there may be some infighting between the PRA and the BI. It never made any sense to me that something like the SRRV would not be a BI program, all visa programs should come under one agency.
> 
> The fact that SRRV holders are not allowed reentry into the country tells me that the PRA lost that bureaucratic bun fight.


Interesting points. From what I understand, the SRRV approval always requires joint approval by Bureau of Immigration (you get the Bureau of Immigration stamp on the passport). Both the SIRV and SRRV are under different agencies, but require coordination with BI and approval by BI for members...it has always been the case.

It does seem odd to target the PRA citing national security concerns. That's not the jurisdiction of this department. Again, whoever made allegations are asking the wrong questions and scrapgoating the wrong department.


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## EdrigoSalvadore (Nov 25, 2020)

I am waiting for them to continue the program again. I am willing to invest in condo or a house in Angeles City, Pampanga or perhaps Clark, to get the SRRV visa. Can someone recommend good information about how to buy a house as a foreigner, and guide how to buy a condominium. I get crazy looking at condos at the different ad-sites available. They refuse to tell you which building or area the condo is in, and which floor it is located at, and which fee´s and dues come with the purchase. I might get scammed unless I manage to find some more information.


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## Gary D (Oct 28, 2013)

As a foreigner you can only generally buy a condo in your own name. There may be a few leasehold houses but are very rare. Never buy off of plan, it's all about boots on the ground.


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## Lunkan (Aug 28, 2020)

EdrigoSalvadore said:


> I am waiting for them to continue the program again. I am willing to invest in condo or a house in Angeles City, Pampanga or perhaps Clark, to get the SRRV visa. Can someone recommend good information about how to buy a house as a foreigner, and guide how to buy a condominium. I get crazy looking at condos at the different ad-sites available. They refuse to tell you which building or area the condo is in, and which floor it is located at, and which fee´s and dues come with the purchase. I might get scammed unless I manage to find some more information.


 Oh. Business and officials Filipinos in general are terrible at answering at mesages - except real estate agents  I have asked. One even appologiesed it took a day for him to answer after a typhon passed, so they had electric break so his mobilebattery got empty. But I don't know any real estate agents in the region you are talking about but I know some e g in PuertoPriincesa.

As I suppouse you know foreigners can own condos
but NOT house *with *land. 
*But *w*e* can own buildings at* leased* land. (NOT leasing from Filipina wife.)
Leases can be 25+25 years. But we can hope it will be changed, because the parlament changed time limited to no time limit for corporations/companies recently, so hopefuly they will make similar change for leases.
I haven't tried, but I suppouse it's possible to legaly split land from building to get house at leased land. IF not using Dumm as some crap lawyers do. 
A lawyer got the assignment to do such split for a Norwegian, but when they checked the documents the lawyer had put all in Filipina's name!!! I don't know if because of lazyness or what. The Filipina got problems by that, because the bills came in her name by that lawyer error...


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## BGCExpat (Oct 26, 2015)

EdrigoSalvadore said:


> I am waiting for them to continue the program again. I am willing to invest in condo or a house in Angeles City, Pampanga or perhaps Clark, to get the SRRV visa. Can someone recommend good information about how to buy a house as a foreigner, and guide how to buy a condominium. I get crazy looking at condos at the different ad-sites available. They refuse to tell you which building or area the condo is in, and which floor it is located at, and which fee´s and dues come with the purchase. I might get scammed unless I manage to find some more information.


Be careful while shopping online for a condo. RE agents are notoriously lazy and often do not take down online ads after the sale. I called on one the other day and he told me it was slid 4 1/2 years ago! But he had a similar one at 50% more... 😂😂


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## EdrigoSalvadore (Nov 25, 2020)

I want to find information on how I can buy a house. It seems really difficult to find the information. Someone told me it is very easy to do, just make a company and get filipino majority but sign paper that gives all the deciding power to yourself. Anyone know about this?


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## Gary D (Oct 28, 2013)

EdrigoSalvadore said:


> I want to find information on how I can buy a house. It seems really difficult to find the information. Someone told me it is very easy to do, just make a company and get filipino majority but sign paper that gives all the deciding power to yourself. Anyone know about this?


There's a law against that, anti dummy corporation law.


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## Nate5182 (Sep 8, 2020)

EdrigoSalvadore said:


> I want to find information on how I can buy a house. It seems really difficult to find the information. Someone told me it is very easy to do, just make a company and get filipino majority but sign paper that gives all the deciding power to yourself. Anyone know about this?


I did a little research a few years back and came across the below blog. I suggest you verify the information before making any commitments.









Property Ownership in the Philippines






badladz.com






Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Lunkan (Aug 28, 2020)

EdrigoSalvadore said:


> I want to find information on how I can buy a house. It seems really difficult to find the information. Someone told me it is very easy to do, just make a company and get filipino majority


 Yes. Max 40% of the owning to foreigner. Foreigners can have 2 of the 5 board positions but NONE of the chairman, tressurer or secretary.

*NOTE! It has to be a businesses NEEDING the property for BUSINESS. It's NOT enough to be used just to get home for foreigner.*



EdrigoSalvadore said:


> but sign paper that gives all the deciding power to yourself.


 *NONONO. Several lawyers offer such ILLEGAL "solutions" !!! It become illegal by "The Anti-Dummy law" as soon as foreigner get the control e g by Dummy.* 

(There are some more complicated things to do to reduce the risk some, but it can't be done by geting control by contract because that's illegal.)

I want to have real estate for the business too, which make it some easier for me and add some chance at least one of the board Filipinos will want to vote as I like by they earn more at their shares if voting at the best alternative 
*But* for foreigners, who just want to own a home, it's much easier and less costs to solve it by owning buildings but *LEASE the land *(from someone else than wife).


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## Gary D (Oct 28, 2013)

It has always been my understanding that to own the building you must lease the land first then build the property on the leased land. I believe one of our members has done it the other way around. Like anything in the Philippines until challenged we will never know.


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## Gary D (Oct 28, 2013)

This is a long but interesting read.





Real estate regulations in the Philippines


A complex system of laws, rules and regulations apply to real estate and real estate transactions in the Philippines. Key prohibitions on the ownership and disposition of lands are found in organic law (i.e., the 1987 Philippine Constitution), while incentives and other regulatory mechanisms for...




oxfordbusinessgroup.com


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## bigpearl (Jan 24, 2016)

Gary D said:


> It has always been my understanding that to own the building you must lease the land first then build the property on the leased land. I believe one of our members has done it the other way around. Like anything in the Philippines until challenged we will never know.


Thanks for your posts Gary, appreciate your input and has put a few of my nagging thoughts to bed (I can certainly be a doubting Thomas especially when it comes to some of my own decisions). Not sure if you were thinking of our situation with this post but yes it does apply to where we are here in PH. and what we did to secure. Many post about this if one searches.

Encumbering the title was the biggest hurdle but achieved with the third attorney as the first 2 believed only banks could hold a lien on a title, did you read the law? Sir I am an attorney and know the law,,,,,,, doh. As said the third was switched on and was well aware of our situation. There is a 25 + 25 year lease registered on the title. The ownership of the buildings and improvements on the said land was not a problem and was broken up in the deed of sale, $$$ for the buildings and improvements owned by X and $$$ for the titled and tax declared lots owned by Y. The lease became Z.

*"Owning Real Estate Other Than Land*
Since the prohibition in the 1987 Philippine Constitution only pertains to private land, foreign nationals and foreign corporations are entitled to take a 100% interest in buildings, machineries and other forms of real property other than land.

While the general rule in Philippine law is that the ownership of real property adhered to land follows the ownership of the land, separate legal title over other forms of real property adhered to the land may be perfected and separated from the land where such items of property are situated."

And further good reading, again thanks for the link Gary. Additionally, while we pay 4 lots of rates,,,, titled and tax declared lots in my better half's name and rates on buildings in my name, we are in a different situation to many but the above can be achieved through a correctly registered company or a """"very"""" trusted friend.

OMO and experiences.

Cheers, Steve.


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## Lunkan (Aug 28, 2020)

Thanks for the article, Gary. It told in one place, what I have told spea out in ifferent topics.
One tthing to coment though is this, as bigpearl comente too.
Quote from the good article Gary added link to.


> Foreign nationals and foreign companies are advised to seek legal representation and retain property advisors before entering into real estate transactions in the Philippines. Legal advisors can be retained to help identify legal risks and issues that may help foreign investors decide on whether or not to proceed with a particular real estate transaction.


 That's a good advice by the article - kind of  - because it's very hard to find any lawyer, who know things. As I have said there are several lawyers, who offer the ILLEGAL "solution" with Dummies to get around the Anti-Dummy law!!! I have found many more such crap lawyers than good ones...
Of the few good ones I have found are two specialiced and good at OTHER things than business and real estate (family law, environment and such) one big law firm - expensive  - and the best at such except the expensive isn't even a lawyer, he is law student with exam test later this year. This law student is the only one, who has added any knowledge to me concerning business and real estate. With him I checked some things I weren't sure of. (Much more complicated and detailed things than the main general I have told solutions of in this forum.) He confirmed all could be done as I thought, except one thing he said other about, so I adjusted that in the complicated detailed solution I figuered out for myself, but the basic solution is same as I have told in this forum.

As the two lawyers bigpearl had tried, who diddn't know, not titled real estate can be collateral for loan too, although not as protected lender by the risk other things get sold without paying the lender. IF thinking of lending to a business though, then there are tax laws to think of what the *total *effect will be of, because in some situations interests can be just partly deductable in the business, while fully taxed at the lender. And for foreigners being only part time in Phils, there can be tax deals between the Philipines and foreigner's hoime country to check too to find out the total consequecuences before doing anything to avoid the risk to get shock effects. 
((As e g when a friend of mine, who thought he had been clever reducing a fee, but he didn't became so happy when I explained to him the total result of his "clever" soluton was he had to pay around seven times more taxes/fees than he would have if he hadn't done as he did 🤣 (When he told me it was in between he had got the lower by his solution, but before he had got the much higher negative effects yet.) On top of that his solution is illegal 🤣 but officials didn't notice it, otherwice it would have become even worse than seven times higher costs.))



> "Owning Real Estate Other Than Land
> Since the prohibition in the 1987 Philippine Constitution only pertains to private land, foreign nationals and foreign corporations are entitled to take a 100% interest in buildings, machineries and other forms of real property other than land.


 Yes. For* real* businesses, not such done just to try to solve foreigners owning a home, the *business* often need more things than land and buidings. Common are Mashinery and Vehicles. (Although concerning vehicles as cars to drive at public roads, I believe it's better to put that in Filipina's name to reduce the risk to get charged in traffic accidents as OWNER, when tthe opponent Filipino is the guilty.)
By puting such movable things in foreigner's name or foreigner's business in other country, when used by business in Phils, leased to busineseses in Phils, the foreigner get some more protection by being 100 % owner to theese.. But if thinking of such, check law about leasing and tax effects of leasing to see total effect and see if it can suit your situation. And see if being more protected is worth it if total effect of taxes is higher. There are to many individual variables so there aren't any general answer to that.


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