# Towns & Schools, Relocating the family to Andalusia



## SilkeSpain (Feb 7, 2017)

Hi all, 

This is my first post in this forum and I am hoping for a warm welcome.

Just a little bit about us: We are a family of four who currently live in Sydney, Australia but who is originally from Germany (well, the parents are, the kids are Aussies).

We are booked in for a relocation to the south of Spain and I am looking for more information and input from the forum members. I have studied the board quite a bit but was hoping to squeeze out some more information that is tailored for our particular situation. 

We are coming with a plan to stay indefinitely, self-employed and on an EU passport. This makes us fairly flexible in regards to location but we do have some requirements that we need to work out. I am hoping for your suggestions.

- International School: Our kids are 8 and 10, and we are in need of an international school that prepares them for a life in Spain. I.e. the school is required to teach them enough Spanish in a year that it is a viable option to send the kids to a Spanish state school thereafter. The children are sort of bilingual already, so they are addicting a third language. We probably don't want a school that is too driven and strict but allows some creative freedom. Looking for personal recommendations and first-hand experiences!

- Finding an area to live: Being close to the beach is nice but it's not our main objective. We are looking for a nice community feel where the kids can play in the streets and make friends. There can be other expats around but essentially we want to integrate into the Spanish society and feel like home, not like on holidays. The area needs to be served by a school bus, and we would want to be able to get to shops and restaurants etc on foot. We are looking at the area west of Málaga. Ideally, Málaga isn't far and can be easily reached by bus or train. Who lives in an area like that which they could recommend? We are considering small towns, urbanisations, or even Málaga suburbs. Houses, townhouses, apartments - but we need a communal pool. Please do let us know where you would suggest we should look as right now the area is too large to find a focus. 

Lastly, I am hoping to make some new friends on the board!

Many thanks!

Silke


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## mono (Jan 22, 2016)

Welcome to the forum. Hope you find what you are looking for


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## SilkeSpain (Feb 7, 2017)

Thank you, mono - As you might have guessed, I am craving the exchange with people who have already made the step.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

SilkeSpain said:


> Hi all,
> 
> This is my first post in this forum and I am hoping for a warm welcome.
> 
> ...


Hi there, warm welcome extended!
If your children are going to be 8 and 10 when they arrive, don't have any learning difficulties, are bilingual already (therefore are "language aware") and will have a supporting family background they could possibly go straight into Spanish state school. That is by far the best way to facilitate their possible intergration. It won't be easy for them, that's for sure, but it's something to take into consideration.
There is more information on British schools
https://www.cobis.org.uk/schools/cobis-schools
and here
Nabss | National Association of British Schools in Spain


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## Chopera (Apr 22, 2013)

It depends on the school (and the children) I guess but an international school might not necessarily improve their Spanish sufficiently in a year to make the switch to state school. An international school will teach a UK (or IB) syllabus in English, and all the other kids will speak English (and maybe some will only have limited Spanish), so your children might not be forced to speak Spanish, or study in Spanish.

So As PW says it might be worth going straight to a state school - they'll "suffer" for a year but if the aim is to get them into Spanish state school, this way is more likely to be successful.

Alternatively it might well be worth considering a Spanish private school, many of which have an international flavour, but teach mainly the Spanish curriculum in Spanish (and are a bit cheaper as well).

There is a list of some of them here (I wouldn't pay too much attention to the rankings): Los 100 mejores colegios de España | EL MUNDO


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Chopera said:


> It depends on the school (and the children) I guess but an international school might not necessarily improve their Spanish sufficiently in a year to make the switch to state school. An international school will teach a UK (or IB) syllabus in English, and all the other kids will speak English (and maybe some will only have limited Spanish), so your children might not be forced to speak Spanish, or study in Spanish.
> 
> So As PW says it might be worth going straight to a state school - they'll "suffer" for a year but if the aim is to get them into Spanish state school, this way is more likely to be successful.
> 
> ...


Agree


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

SilkeSpain said:


> Thank you, mono - As you might have guessed, I am craving the exchange with people who have already made the step.


I recommend in or around Estepona, rightly known as El Jardin de la Costa del Sol. 
Quiet, relaxed town, still 'Spanish' (although anywhere in Spain is, obviously, Spanish), no wild night life, loads of excellent bars, cafes, restaurants.
Two airports within easy reach, Gibraltar and Malaga, many good international schools, reasonable public transport links, less than thirty minutes to Marbella if you want posh shops or a glitzy night out....
Property prices higher than other areas, slightly less so than Marbella and a wide choice from million euro plus villas to two bed pisos.

Actually, I wasn't going to recommend it as I love Estepona as it is and don't want it to grow too much but then I thought that people may have had that view nine years ago when I asked what the town was like so I decided not to be so mean-spirited and to heartily recommend Estepona as ticking all the boxes for you.


P.S. You're the last poster I'll recommend it to


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Chopera said:


> It depends on the school (and the children) I guess but an international school might not necessarily improve their Spanish sufficiently in a year to make the switch to state school. An international school will teach a UK (or IB) syllabus in English, and all the other kids will speak English (and maybe some will only have limited Spanish), so your children might not be forced to speak Spanish, or study in Spanish.
> 
> So As PW says it might be worth going straight to a state school - they'll "suffer" for a year but if the aim is to get them into Spanish state school, this way is more likely to be successful.
> 
> ...


I agree - at that age they'll probably get about 4 hours a week of Spanish classes in most International schools, unless they are truly bilingual schools. 

Some schools will have a lot of Spanish children whose parents send them there in order that they become bilingual English/Spanish - school in English & home in Spanish - but I've never yet met an English speaking child who went to International /British school & came out with much more than basic Spanish. I've even known some who failed Spanish GCSE! Some schools 'discourage' the children from speaking anything but English in the playground, too. 

My elder daughter was nearly 9 when she started in the Spanish system, after a couple of terms in an International school while we decided whether or not to stay. Bith she & her younger sister were fine in Spanish school right from the start, & we wished that we hadn't essentially wasted the money we spent on the International school - because both had already covered almost evrything they were taught there.

I also agree with the others that if the aim is for the children to attend Spanish school, they would be better going there right from the start.


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## kdsb (May 3, 2015)

We are spending the school year in Spain with our kids ages 4, 7, 10, and 12 and are having a great experience. They all knew Spanish prior to arriving, though, so a different situation.

We don't have an expat community where I live so I know practically nothing about international schools, but I would agree with those who say it is best to go directly into Spanish schools. They will probably transition better to this at a young age and I think it would be best to get them in before the switch to Instituto which happens around age 12. I've heard of other expat kids having to repeat a year so depending on their grade level and age you may want to ask to have them start a year behind where they would be so they could have a consistent group of peers and slightly lower academic expectations. Because of different age cutoffs in the US two of our kids basically skipped a grade when coming here. For one of them, this would have put him into the first year of Instituto which we thought would be too big a transition into a large school so we asked to have him stay in 6th grade (which would have been his grade in the US -- he will be in 7th there next year). It took a bit of convincing but they did it.

I'd suggest investing the money you would be spending on international school in some intensive Spanish tutoring starting ASAP. Maybe also look into language schools in Spain which offer Spanish immersion for families (sometimes with homestays) which perhaps you could do as a family for a few weeks before starting school. My kids attended summer camp here prior to starting school which made their transition so much easier since they could gain confidence with the language without the pressure of academics.

Good luck!


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

kdsb said:


> I've heard of other expat kids having to repeat a year so depending on their grade level and age you may want to ask to have them start a year behind where they would be so they could have a consistent group of peers and slightly lower academic expectations.
> My kids attended summer camp here prior to starting school which made their transition so much easier since they could gain confidence with the language without the pressure of academics.
> 
> Good luck!


Huge numbers of Spanish children repeat a year too, and a very large number repeat more than one!
I think it might be a good idea for foreign children to start a year behind or repeat a year, but for the Spansih children I think it must be really boring and demotivating and certainly the results from having this system are not good.

Good idea to go to a summer camp if possible. Also to spend a lot of time at the local pool or community pool taking care to synchronise with Spanish timetables ie there won't be a lot of Spanish kids in the pool before 11:30 and in August many families who live in a place may go away and visitors may come in.


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## bob_bob (Jan 5, 2011)

Are Spanish qualifications good enough for the children to enter higher education in the UK or Australia? Spanish universities don't perform well so the Children would perhaps benefit from an International School and overseas higher education?


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## SilkeSpain (Feb 7, 2017)

Hi all, Thank you so much! 

I am overwhelmed by the warm welcome by everybody. What a wonderful community.

I found lots of useful information in your posts and it actually got us thinking of re-considering the choice of school for our children. In Australia, we had decided to send the children to the German International School. Firstly, because that's our heritage and it opens a world of opportunities to them but also because it's a bilingual school which teaches in both languages to achieve a complete bilingual goal over time. I was under the impression that the UK International Schools in Andalusia would apply the same system but if language exposure is reduced to 4 hours per week then I agree it's not much use. 

Long story short, we will now look into the possibilities that come with Spanish private schools that offer a bilingual curriculum. We understand that the children need to have a good Spanish base to begin with. How we will achieve that I am not sure. It's not easy here in Australia, and I think we need to look into that as soon as we arrive in Spain. They will have a long summer ahead with no tuition so I will investigate in how we can make this happen for them. I am hoping that our school of choice will also have suggestions or programs we could use.

In regards to areas to live in - thank you for introducing me to beautiful Estepona. It might be a bit too far from a big city for us but I will keep it in mind. Thanks for sharing this secret with us, it is highly appreciated. 

At this stage we are not looking further than the settling in phase. I would love for the kids to be able to study in Germany as university education is free, yes free. But this is not our priority at this stage. 

By the way, in Germany classes need to be repeated too when a child fails the class. This system works quite well in Germany. 

At the end of the day all location decisions need to be based around the school we choose for our children. I will keep all your suggestions and ideas and recommendations on file and will send an update once I know more. Thanks again. 

Silke


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## kdsb (May 3, 2015)

I just did a quick search for Spanish immersion programs for kids and found this:
International Language Camps - Summer Programs in Spain | don Quijote

Looks like they have day and overnight camps that are focused on kids learning Spanish, which may be better for your kids than just putting them into a Spanish camp, given their ages. I think for little ones (under 7 or so) they can learn just through immersion but your kids may do better with a more structured program, at least at first.


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## kdsb (May 3, 2015)

Also, I think if you look around you may be able to find a private school that is truly bilingual. In my city I have heard of a private school which teaches about half the curriculum in English, but since there are virtually no expats here I assume it is all Spanish kids that attend. My kids attended camp with many kids who attended this school and the older ones (12ish) were able to hold conversations in English fairly well, but my 7-year-old was asked repeatedly "What's your name? Where are you from" since they were starting with basic English at a young age and the kids wanted to practice with the only expressions they knew. So something like that might be ideal since your kids would be fully immersed in Spanish but would also be able to do some of their academics in English, so they may feel more successful academically initially.


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## SilkeSpain (Feb 7, 2017)

kdsb said:


> Also, I think if you look around you may be able to find a private school that is truly bilingual. In my city I have heard of a private school which teaches about half the curriculum in English, but since there are virtually no expats here I assume it is all Spanish kids that attend. My kids attended camp with many kids who attended this school and the older ones (12ish) were able to hold conversations in English fairly well, but my 7-year-old was asked repeatedly "What's your name? Where are you from" since they were starting with basic English at a young age and the kids wanted to practice with the only expressions they knew. So something like that might be ideal since your kids would be fully immersed in Spanish but would also be able to do some of their academics in English, so they may feel more successful academically initially.


Thank you! I will check out that link! 

Yes, I think it needs to be a mix of playful exposure and new friends where they can apply the language together with a more structured approach to language learning in class. My eldest certainly needs the latter now that he is 10. Hopefully the Spanish kids will be as welcoming as this group. I would hate for them to be excluded because they are foreigners. But only time will tell.


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## kdsb (May 3, 2015)

Here's another program that may be a good fit:
Family Spanish Program In San Sebastian Spain | Spanish Abroad, Inc.

I think a Spanish homestay would be ideal. Maybe a combination for the summer of a structured program at first and then transitioning into something with Spanish kids. Although it can be hard to find camps in August.

The Spanish kids have been extremely welcoming of our kids from the beginning. We live in an area without many foreigners so they were all curious about the new kids from the US. They also made friends through different activities, and there are many, many extracurricular options available here which my kids have all been participating in.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

You might also want to consider the type of education that your children will be receiving as apposed to whether it's international/ Spanish.
What I mean is that traditionally Spanish state schools for example are still very much exam focussed and rote learning plays a big part in education which is very different from the British approach. You'll rarely see children painting in a Spanish primary school for example (my daughter never did!). Just something else to be aware of...


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## Chopera (Apr 22, 2013)

bob_bob said:


> Are Spanish qualifications good enough for the children to enter higher education in the UK or Australia? Spanish universities don't perform well so the Children would perhaps benefit from an International School and overseas higher education?


Yes I've seen UK universities specifying grades for the Spanish bachillerato which would gain entrance. I'm not sure if all UK universities do this but, given the student ends up paying a lot of money to them, I'm sure most of them do.

Also, many schools where I am (including a few state schools) also offer the international baccalaureate as an alternative to the bachillerato, and that is accepted pretty much everywhere.

It's a good point though. While I'm happy with what I have seen so far of primary education in Spain, I still have my doubts about Spanish universities so, when the time comes, I want my kids to at least have the option of studying higher education elsewhere.


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

Given the age of the children it seems perhaps a bit to soon to be talking about university. I would have thought the priority would be seeing if Spain is the place you really want to live If that is the case then you need to embrace the culture and society as fully as you can. The school system is what it is here and I think that people who move here should accept that not immediately compare it with other systems.
If you want an educational system that embraces UK syllabus then it would seem more prudent to move there. There will be a lot of challenges moving here and education is just one of these. Also remember that if you hold a UK passport Brexit could be a huge game changer in terms of work, health care. tax and residency.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Chopera said:


> Also, many schools where I am (including a few state schools) also offer the international baccalaureate as an alternative to the bachillerato, and that is accepted pretty much everywhere.


I didn't know that state schools offered this. Useful to know!


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## 95995 (May 16, 2010)

Generally speaking, in Australia if you have a qualification that is the equivalent of UK A level, you can apply for university, BUT entrance requirements do vary from State to State and even university to university and on the degree you intend to pursue. International Bac is also generally acceptable. IIRC completion of the Spanish bac is acceptable. All subject to English language skills, of course. 

Sometimes you have to contact the university and have them approve your secondary school qualification.

This link may be of some help https://www.studiesinaustralia.com/studying-in-australia/how-to-study-in-australia/qualification-recognition-in-australia


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## Chopera (Apr 22, 2013)

SilkeSpain said:


> ...
> 
> ...
> 
> ...


I forgot to mention that certain state secondary schools in Spain (institutos) have a "Seccion Bilingue" where at least half of the subjects are taught in another language (usually English but occasionally French or German). If you look out for one of these then obviously there will be less of a language barrier in the classroom for your children.


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## Chopera (Apr 22, 2013)

Pesky Wesky said:


> I didn't know that state schools offered this. Useful to know!


There's a list including several "I.E.S"s here:

Find an IB World School - International Baccalaureate®

The Ramiro de Maeztu has been running it for several years now


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## 95995 (May 16, 2010)

SilkeSpain said:


> Hi all, Thank you so much!
> 
> I am overwhelmed by the warm welcome by everybody. What a wonderful community.
> 
> ...


My apologies, Silke, I missed this post of yours. TBH I had thought that you might well, when the time comes, consider university in Germany (which I already knew was free) for your children and sort of doubted that you would consider Uni in Australian, given the extortionate cost of doing a degree there (and IMO, if a degree's the route your children eventually choose, then a German degree would probably be better than at least many Australian degrees).

Yes, it certainly is difficult to do all your planning from Australia, especially when you also have to consider the needs of your children.

Anyway, I do hope it all works out for you


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## bob_bob (Jan 5, 2011)

Pisa tests: UK lags behind in global school rankings - BBC News

worth looking at


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## 95995 (May 16, 2010)

bob_bob said:


> Pisa tests: UK lags behind in global school rankings - BBC News
> 
> worth looking at


It is a reasonable indicator, however it's worth noting that there is a lag factor for those countries that have recently been reforming education (but I don't know whether the UK is one of those).


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## SilkeSpain (Feb 7, 2017)

Hi all,

Appreciate all your input regarding quality of education, university entrance requirements and PISA tests. 

At this stage it really is about living the moment for us. We want the kids to have a good start on a social level, make them feel at home and most of all BE HAPPY. Academic success is something we can work on later. 

Also, FYI We have dual nationality German/Aussie, so we are not affected by the Brexit (yet!). 

7 more weeks until our big flight back to Europe. We will definitely miss Australia. 

Thanks all! 

Cheers, Silke


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## cermignano (Feb 9, 2017)

I wish you and your family the best. i am sure that it will all work out because of your insight and optimism


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