# Egypt/Israel



## MaidenScotland

A court in Cairo has upheld a ruling urging the government to consider stripping Egyptian men who are married to Israeli women of their citizenship.

The ruling requires officials to send all such cases to the cabinet, to be decided on an individual basis.

June 5 2010


Who makes these rulings? who urges the government?


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## MaidenScotland

This is from 2001... 

An Egyptian member of parliament has complained that unemployed Egyptian men are increasingly turning to Israeli women for brides.

The MP, Abu'l-ezz al-Hariri, told a parliamentary committee that rising unemployment and the desire to escape the poverty trap they were marrying Israeli women in ever greater numbers.


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## jojo

Do egyptian men do anything for genuine love?? Does their culture not teach them about heartfelt love and companionship etc???

Jo xxx


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## DeadGuy

MaidenScotland said:


> A court in Cairo has upheld a ruling urging the government to consider stripping Egyptian men who are married to Israeli women of their citizenship.
> 
> The ruling requires officials to send all such cases to the cabinet, to be decided on an individual basis.
> 
> June 5 2010
> 
> 
> Who makes these rulings? who urges the government?



You don't see anyone complaining about Egyptian "men" married to Brits or Americans or any other nationality do you?!

That should explain


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## DeadGuy

jojo said:


> Do egyptian men do anything for genuine love?? Does their culture not teach them about heartfelt love and companionship etc???
> 
> Jo xxx


Will you as a moderator watch my a$$ from being kicked if I gave the right answer for that?? Cause considering how many people are after my a$$ in here? I will get it kicked if I did answer for sure :lol::lol::lol:

Don't we all love democracy??


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## Beatle

jojo said:


> Do egyptian men do anything for genuine love?? Does their culture not teach them about heartfelt love and companionship etc???
> 
> Jo xxx


How is that question not racist?! Quite a few users of this forum are married to Egyptians and I would be quite offended if I was married to an Egyptian and saw this post. Is that really the purpose of this forum?!


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## Beatle

DeadGuy said:


> Will you as a moderator watch my a$$ from being kicked if I gave the right answer for that?? Cause considering how many people are after my a$$ in here? I will get it kicked if I did answer for sure :lol::lol::lol:


And the battle begins....


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## jojo

Beatle said:


> How is that question not racist?! Quite a few users of this forum are married to Egyptians and I would be quite offended if I was married to an Egyptian and saw this post. Is that really the purpose of this forum?!


Yes you're probably right, I was stereotyping (I dont like the word racist, cos I'm not one). I apologise  Sadly a few tend to lend their behaviour to the stereotype and I shouldnt get sucked into that

Jo xxxx


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## cutiepie

> Do egyptian men do anything for genuine love?? Does their culture not teach them about heartfelt love and companionship etc???


Absolutely DISGUSTING comment from a moderator?!!!! exactly what kind of culture are the english taught?? 

That is the most ignorant comment I have read in along time

SHOCKING and DISGUSTING


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## cutiepie

what would happen if i went on the British forum and wrote are them stupid british hooligans taught anything in their country ??? Im sure I wouldnt be long getting abuse or reported for abuse!!


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## MaidenScotland

cutiepie said:


> Absolutely DISGUSTING comment from a moderator?!!!! exactly what kind of culture are the english taught??
> 
> That is the most ignorant comment I have read in along time
> 
> SHOCKING and DISGUSTING




Jo has apologised so there was no need for your comment and your comment about what kind of culture are the English taught? is in the same frame... 


Maiden


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## cutiepie

Am I not allowed to voice my opinion? or is it only certain people? Im just saying what I thought of it?!


ammmm that was the whole pointI wrote it in the same context as hers to show how ignorant i would sound if i put it on the british forum ... thought that was obvious?? sorry if it wasnt !


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## MaidenScotland

cutiepie said:


> Am I not allowed to voice my opinion? or is it only certain people? Im just saying what I thought of it?!




And I am only replying... am I not allowed to voice my opinion?


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## MaidenScotland

cutiepie said:


> Am I not allowed to voice my opinion? or is it only certain people? Im just saying what I thought of it?!
> 
> 
> ammmm that was the whole pointI wrote it in the same context as hers to show how ignorant i would sound if i put it on the british forum ... thought that was obvious?? sorry if it wasnt !



Maybe your saying it now because I pointed it out???


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## jojo

cutiepie said:


> what would happen if i went on the British forum and wrote are them stupid british hooligans taught anything in their country ??? Im sure I wouldnt be long getting abuse or reported for abuse!!



Probably, but I think most British realise that the stereotype of Brits abroad (generally fuelled by the British media) is valid to a point, but doesnt include everyone! I certainly dont find it offensive, I'm not like that, but there are many of my fellow country persons who are!!??????

Jo xxx


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## cutiepie

> Maybe your saying it now because I pointed it out???



pathetic!! no I am not as ignorant or racist as other people on this forum ...I do not stereotype people....im not that stupid to paint everybody with the same brush due to nationality ............. anyway I was just giving my opinion of the comment


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## MaidenScotland

cutiepie said:


> pathetic!! no I am not as ignorant or racist as other people on this forum ...I do not stereotype people you just have!
> 
> ....im not that stupid to paint everybody with the same brush due to nationality ............. anyway I was just giving my opinion of the comment



As I said Jo apologised so no more on the subject please,


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## jojo

cutiepie said:


> Am I not allowed to voice my opinion? or is it only certain people? Im just saying what I thought of it?!


You can voice your opinion. My opinion was rather misworded and certainly I was guilty of stereotyping and happy to apologise for that. 

My apology is directed at those that may have been offended by it, which I would imagine to be the "not so stereotypical" Egyptian men????? I assume that would be you or a loved one since you seem so offended!

Jo xxx


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## Sam

Beatle said:


> How is that question not racist?! Quite a few users of this forum are married to Egyptians and I would be quite offended if I was married to an Egyptian and saw this post. Is that really the purpose of this forum?!


As someone who is in a relationship with an Egyptian man, I did not find this opinion offensive. There are many men who marry for love, a majority I would hope. On the other hand, there are also many arranged marriages and "convenient" marriages, for example I've known a few cousin marriages where they didn't love each other but couldn't go against their parents. 

The problem is that for those that do not know the country or society well, all they know is the stereotype and what they see. And when it comes to the tourist areas I see many women preyed on for lust or otherwise (not love) and on this forum are the stories of broken inter-cultural relationships. The happy loving marriages are not necessarily aired.


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## MaidenScotland

Also on this forum is the almost daily occurrence of men joining just to offer women friendship, coffee and Arabic lessons despite the fact we have said time and time again this is not a dating agency. Jo was responding to what she sees in here and of course the wording in the newspaper.

Maiden.


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## jojo

I'm probably speaking out of turn here, as a mod I'm supposed to be impartial, but I get sick to death of the "racist" card being waved at every opportunity these days. IMO the words "racist and racism" implies dislike and disdain for another race ie RACIAL HATRED! It should not mean talking about different cultures, lifestyles, religions etc that different races have. That's racial awareness and there is nothing wrong in that!

On that note, I shall go back to "Spain" Sorry Maiden xxx

Jo xxx


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## DeadGuy

Hmmmmm!

Can't take that Egyptian old thing that says "No one's offended except for the guilty ones" out of my mind now for some reason.........Is that "racist" too?!
Anyway, :focus:

The court HAD to look at this after a request made by a specific "lawyer" who's known for being........a complete idiot?! He's been the lawyer defending so many idiots in here in Egypt, including those who are known for being drug dealers or those who are publicly known to be 110% guilty!!! (It's not what the public "think"!!! They're guilty by THEIR OWN CONFESSIONS!!)

He's also known for moving law sues against actors/actresses (Mainly actresses though!) basing on things like "They didn't need to say this cause I think they didn't have to" Or like "She didn't appear to be "decent" enough in that scene" etc.........

He's expected to sue his own a$$ soon, if he didn't sue God first!

His real name says it all though!!!

Have a nice time everyone, or at least try to!


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## Beatle

MaidenScotland said:


> Also on this forum is the almost daily occurrence of men joining just to offer women friendship, coffee and Arabic lessons despite the fact we have said time and time again this is not a dating agency. Jo was responding to what she sees in here and of course the wording in the newspaper.
> 
> Maiden.


Haven't you just said no more on the subject? If that is the case, I will respect that and also respect the fact that Jo apologised. But it does not seem appropriate for you to continue to post on the subject in that case. On the other hand, if we are permitted to continue to post on the subject, then could you let us know.


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## MaidenScotland

And of course no one but DG has commented on what this guy and the courts are doing to these men because they have married someone from Israel...


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## DeadGuy

MaidenScotland said:


> Also on this forum is the almost daily occurrence of men joining just to offer women friendship, coffee and Arabic lessons despite the fact we have said time and time again this is not a dating agency. Jo was responding to what she sees in here and of course the wording in the newspaper.
> 
> Maiden.


Just a suggestion.......

May be moderators can leave those "men" post whatever they wanna post for a short while? I mean it would speak for itself instead of making you people having to say it all the time?!

My suggestion is based on the fact that there are people who don't believe things that they can't see for themselves.....

Was just a suggestion though........


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## DeadGuy

MaidenScotland said:


> And of course no one but DG has commented on what this guy and the courts are doing to these men because they have married someone from Israel...


Damn it! What was that for??!!! 

If the kicks started hailing on my butt it will be your fault!! :lol:


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## Sam

DeadGuy said:


> :focus:
> 
> The court HAD to look at this after a request made by a specific "lawyer" who's known for being........a complete idiot?! He's been the lawyer defending so many idiots in here in Egypt, including those who are known for being drug dealers or those who are publicly known to be 110% guilty!!! (It's not what the public "think"!!! They're guilty by THEIR OWN CONFESSIONS!!)
> 
> He's also known for moving law sues against actors/actresses (Mainly actresses though!) basing on things like "They didn't need to say this cause I think they didn't have to" Or like "She didn't appear to be "decent" enough in that scene" etc.........
> 
> He's expected to sue his own a$$ soon, if he didn't sue God first!
> 
> His real name says it all though!!!
> 
> Have a nice time everyone, or at least try to!



What confuses me most about the Egypt/Israel thing, is that whilst the majority of other countries are calling back their ambassadors and showing real action towards condemning the attack by the Israelis, Egypt just called to express their disapproval of the situation. And when the passengers of the boat were taken as hostages, miraculously the Egyptians were freed straight away!

Without expressing a personal opinion on the actions of Egypt in this situation, I think their actions speak for themselves.

I just hope that if (or when) the next aid boat is attacked, as the Israelis promise, and if the sh!t hits the fan resulting in the world against Israel, Egypt will be either keeping out of it or batting for the right team.


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## MaidenScotland

DeadGuy said:


> Damn it! What was that for??!!!
> 
> If the kicks started hailing on my butt it will be your fault!! :lol:




I will offer you asylum or at the very least a large cushion to ward of the blowsxx


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## MaidenScotland

DeadGuy said:


> Just a suggestion.......
> 
> May be moderators can leave those "men" post whatever they wanna post for a short while? I mean it would speak for itself instead of making you people having to say it all the time?!
> 
> My suggestion is based on the fact that there are people who don't believe things that they can't see for themselves.....
> 
> Was just a suggestion though........




Understand the sentiment DG but I don't really want to go down that road. I tend to contact them saying it's not a dating agency then generally the reply back is
I am not wanting a women I just want to show them I am different, show them Egypt, make sure they are not ripped off(that one kills me).. so I delete their post and do not allow them to post again. When the posts were left as a mod I had to deal with the complaints about these guys constantly contacting female members and that is one of the reasons we decided not to have these posts showing.

Maiden


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## DeadGuy

Sam said:


> What confuses me most about the Egypt/Israel thing, is that whilst the majority of other countries are calling back their ambassadors and showing real action towards condemning the attack by the Israelis, Egypt just called to express their disapproval of the situation. And when the passengers of the boat were taken as hostages, miraculously the Egyptians were freed straight away!
> 
> Without expressing a personal opinion on the actions of Egypt in this situation, I think their actions speak for themselves.
> 
> I just hope that if (or when) the next aid boat is attacked, as the Israelis promise, and if the sh!t hits the fan resulting in the world against Israel, Egypt will be either keeping out of it or batting for the right team.



Ok Sam!!!

First MaidenScotland calling people in here to kick my butt, now you trying to book me a trip somewhere (Not Sharm though :lol:!)!!!

You're a Brit Sam, you can talk about the untouchables and what they're doing, but I'm Egyptian! I can get @#$%^&*@#$%# if I did! (Don't ask what that was! It was MANY things that could happen to me :lol

Will it say anything if I said that I "partially" agree with you?! :confused2: Cause I do.

Have a nice time 

P.S. The ship made it safe as far as I know few hours ago, everything's "ok", except for ONE thing, it just didn't make it to its destination, it was "escorted" to an Israeli port!


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## DeadGuy

MaidenScotland said:


> Understand the sentiment DG but I don't really want to go down that road. I tend to contact them saying it's not a dating agency then generally the reply back is
> I am not wanting a women I just want to show them I am different, show them Egypt, make sure they are not ripped off(that one kills me).. so I delete their post and do not allow them to post again. When the posts were left as a mod I had to deal with the complaints about these guys constantly contacting female members and that is one of the reasons we decided not to have these posts showing.
> 
> Maiden


Dunno what to say really 

Good luck surviving being a moderator 

And sorry for what those idiots are doing (Not sorry for them though, just what they're doing!)

Have a nice day


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## Beatle

DeadGuy said:


> Just a suggestion.......
> 
> May be moderators can leave those "men" post whatever they wanna post for a short while? I mean it would speak for itself instead of making you people having to say it all the time?!
> 
> My suggestion is based on the fact that there are people who don't believe things that they can't see for themselves.....
> 
> Was just a suggestion though........


Including those posts wouldn't change any views I have already expressed in this post! I don't think posters who object to "stereotyping" do so out of naivety. I may however have misunderstood the basis for your suggestion


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## Gemlou26

With this ruling in mind how are Israeli persons recieved in Egypt? Are they generally unwelcome?


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## MaidenScotland

Hi Gem

Are you talking about Israeli Jews? Israeli Arabs? or both?

Israelis do go into the red sea resorts for holidays so in that respect they are welcome but I suspect that if they go to Cairo they don't shout it from the rooftops that they are Isreali.

Maiden


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## Sam

MaidenScotland said:


> Hi Gem
> 
> Are you talking about Israeli Jews? Israeli Arabs? or both?
> 
> Israelis do go into the red sea resorts for holidays so in that respect they are welcome but I suspect that if they go to Cairo they don't shout it from the rooftops that they are Isreali.
> 
> Maiden


With the media publishing Israelis in the way it currently is, I can't imagine ANY Israeli would be well received ANYWHERE in the world now, Sharm included. Although, what with the nature that this thread is turning out, surely if anyone treats any Israeli any differently they'll be stamped with the racism/stereotyping stamp too?!

Apparently Obama is over here with us at the moment sorting it all out... might have to try and catch up with him later to give you all the latest news  lol

Sam


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## Elphaba

Sam said:


> With the media publishing Israelis in the way it currently is, I can't imagine ANY Israeli would be well received ANYWHERE in the world now, Sharm included. Although, what with the nature that this thread is turning out, surely if anyone treats any Israeli any differently they'll be stamped with the racism/stereotyping stamp too?!
> 
> Apparently Obama is over here with us at the moment sorting it all out... might have to try and catch up with him later to give you all the latest news  lol
> 
> Sam


It's a shame people cannot separate the actions of a government from the wishes of the people. I doubt that many Israels were in favour of 'attacking' the flotilla so for people elsewhere to give them a hard time is ridiculous. In the same way that the vast majority of the British people were against our involvement in the invasion of Iraq.

-


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## Beatle

MaidenScotland said:


> Hi Gem
> 
> Are you talking about Israeli Jews? Israeli Arabs? or both?
> 
> Israelis do go into the red sea resorts for holidays so in that respect they are welcome but I suspect that if they go to Cairo they don't shout it from the rooftops that they are Isreali.
> 
> Maiden


I have met quite a few Israeli Jews in Cairo, mostly through the courses I have taken. I have also met some who were just sightseeing in Cairo. Some chose to make their nationality known, others chose not to discuss it.


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## DeadGuy

Elphaba said:


> It's a shame people cannot separate the actions of a government from the wishes of the people. I doubt that many Israels were in favour of 'attacking' the flotilla so for people elsewhere to give them a hard time is ridiculous. In the same way that the vast majority of the British people were against our involvement in the invasion of Iraq.
> 
> -


:thumb: :clap2:

:focus:

Answering Gemlou26, it differs from one person to another, some people in here - well, the majority of them actually- are stupid enough to be hating on ANYTHING coming from Israel, not just anyone, as Elphaba said, just cause they think that the whole Israeli people are supporting the government's actions in there!! They should think of it the other way around though! We're supposed to be having a "government" in here, are ALL Egyptians part of the jokes that are made by the "government" in here??!!!! Those people are just hypocrites, with double standards! That's my personal opinion!

The rest of the people who are not thinking this way are a bit restricted, as it would be a matter of "National security" to be talking to a Jew/Israeli.........!! Unless it's just for business, mainly businesses "approved" by the government in here! Smart of them isn't it? 

Enjoy it in here!


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## MaidenScotland

There are two sides to each story and just because it's not our side doesn't make it wrong.


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## DeadGuy

MaidenScotland said:


> There are two sides to each story and just because it's not our side doesn't make it wrong.


Well it just confuses me how much hate they got towards people that they never even met! I mean Even small kids who are barely +5 or +6 years old are swearing on any Israeli thing!!!! 

And it goes to a real stupid level many times as well...........I mean Israeli SMS's making your cell phone "blow up" just by reading it??? And yes, some "people" in here do buy [email protected] of this kind!!!!! Damn! Is it the 11th century or something??!!!! :confused2:


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## Beatle

DeadGuy said:


> Well it just confuses me how much hate they got towards people that they never even met! I mean Even small kids who are barely +5 or +6 years old are swearing on any Israeli thing!!!!
> 
> And it goes to a real stupid level many times as well...........I mean Israeli SMS's making your cell phone "blow up" just by reading it??? And yes, some "people" in here do buy [email protected] of this kind!!!!! Damn! Is it the 11th century or something??!!!! :confused2:


One of the Israeli guys I met on one of my courses was really interesting. We were studying basic level arabic but in the breaks he would be asking the teacher what the arabic was for words like "conscientious objector" - it turns out that he had been in prison for two years for refusing to do military service in Israel and he was trying to learn the arabic to explain it to Egyptians so that they understood his background.


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## Gemlou26

Maybe its wrong maybe there is some method in the madness.

I don't want to go too off topic here but in some countries there has been a few instances of children from such marriages have turned out to be a threat to national security despite being raised and educated in that country. 

Obviously it would be wrong to band them all together, however, is it just Egypt is honest enough to recognise it as a potential problem given experiences from other countries? 

Perhaps those other countries are scared to be accused of being branded racist at the cost of national security?


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## DeadGuy

Beatle said:


> One of the Israeli guys I met on one of my courses was really interesting. We were studying basic level arabic but in the breaks he would be asking the teacher what the arabic was for words like "conscientious objector" - it turns out that he had been in prison for two years for refusing to do military service in Israel and he was trying to learn the arabic to explain it to Egyptians so that they understood his background.


I wonder if anyone of those who need to listen to him would listen though, those kind of people seem to be happy putting all the blame on Israel all the time for some reason.......They just don't wanna sit and talk.

May be one day they'll understand that it's not about the people, it's just politicians' games......

Hope that day comes soon though!


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## DeadGuy

Gemlou26 said:


> Maybe its wrong maybe there is some method in the madness.
> 
> I don't want to go too off topic here but in some countries there has been a few instances of children from such marriages have turned out to be a threat to national security despite being raised and educated in that country.
> 
> Obviously it would be wrong to band them all together, however, is it just Egypt is honest enough to recognise it as a potential problem given experiences from other countries?
> 
> Perhaps those other countries are scared to be accused of being branded racist at the cost of national security?


A good point you got there, and it would make sense if it was moved by the "national security" guys themselves, not by some idiotic "lawyer" who's after the propaganda!!


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## Beatle

Gemlou26 said:


> Maybe its wrong maybe there is some method in the madness.
> 
> I don't want to go too off topic here but in some countries there has been a few instances of children from such marriages have turned out to be a threat to national security despite being raised and educated in that country.
> 
> Obviously it would be wrong to band them all together, however, is it just Egypt is honest enough to recognise it as a potential problem given experiences from other countries?
> 
> Perhaps those other countries are scared to be accused of being branded racist at the cost of national security?


I am slightly confused here as to what you are suggesting - that Egypt should recognise that children of Egyptian/Israeli mixed marriages are a potential problem? That other countries should do likewise? And that taking action against anyone who fits this definition is justifiable on the grounds of national security?!! Should other countries consider stripping men of their citizenship for national security reasons and where should those countries draw the line? Actually I am not expecting an answer to those questions!


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## Gemlou26

Beatle said:


> I am slightly confused here as to what you are suggesting - that Egypt should recognise that children of Egyptian/Israeli mixed marriages are a potential problem? That other countries should do likewise? And that taking action against anyone who fits this definition is justifiable on the grounds of national security?!! Should other countries consider stripping men of their citizenship for national security reasons and where should those countries draw the line? Actually I am not expecting an answer to those questions!


Hi Beatle, 

It was merely a look from a different prespective, It was never meant to be my own opinion or i would have said something like this. 

Ahem (said in a west midlands accent) 

It is my opinion that Egypt should recognise that children of Egyptian/Israeli mixed marriages are a potential problem. Other countries should follow suit. 

What I wrote was (I was thinking more of a London accent for this one)

Maybe its wrong maybe there is some method in the madness.

I don't want to go too off topic here but in some countries there has been a few instances of children from such marriages have turned out to be a threat to national security despite being raised and educated in that country. 

Obviously it would be wrong to band them all together, however, is it just Egypt is honest enough to recognise it as a potential problem given experiences from other countries? 

Perhaps those other countries are scared to be accused of being branded racist at the cost of national security?


It was more of an invitation to discuss sorry if it offended you in any way Beatle. These subjects can sometimes cause a little trouble when ones post is mis interpreted.


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## mardini

MaidenScotland said:


> A court in Cairo has upheld a ruling urging the government to consider stripping Egyptian men who are married to Israeli women of their citizenship.
> 
> The ruling requires officials to send all such cases to the cabinet, to be decided on an individual basis.
> 
> June 5 2010
> 
> 
> Who makes these rulings? who urges the government?


MaidenScotland,

I strongly believe the reasons behind this decision "at this point in time" are:

1- Intelligence (I don't mean smartness here) and Security
2- Increasing conflicting interests between the United States, Israel and Egypt.
3- An increasing shift in political power in the Middle East in favor of Turkey.
4- An attempt from the government to put Egyptian people on hold momentarily as the elections take place (the current and the coming).

Explanation:

1- It is granted that all Egyptian men acquiring the Israeli citizenship by marrying to an Israeli women undergo intensive intelligence investigation, some might cooperate with the Israeli Mosad or Shabak for different reasons may be because they have rage against the Egyptian government for a bad living conditions in the past and may be because they want to secure a good living standard in Israel by cooperating with Israeli government. The Egyptian government has been aware of this for so long, this explains the continuous undeclared tension between both governments. 

2- The Egyptian government reminds Israel that it has cards it can raise to put extra pressure on the Israeli government when the time is right. The time could not be better after the deadly assault the Israeli navy committed last Monday. This is the Egyptian government's response to the Israeli government's earlier pressure put on the Egyptian government on the Nile water distribution treaty by supporting the southern African countries.

3- The Egyptian government is desperately attempting to pull back political power from Turkey in light of the recent events which led the whole Islamic and Arab world to shift towards Turkey as the new leader of the Middle East. Egypt opened the Rafah passover and passed this law.

4- This law should be looked upon favorably by the Egyptians at large for obvious reasons which "can" lessen the overwhelming protest against the Egyptian government, taking into consideration the latest alliance between Dr. Baradie and the Muslim Ekhwan.

Its all political.. people don't matter for governments...


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