# UK student -> US residency/citizenship



## FreemanUK (Apr 14, 2010)

Hi guys, I'd appreciate some advice on where to go from where I am at the moment. Here's my situation:

I'm 21, in my second year of university here in the UK doing an undergraduate degree in economics and politics.

I'd like to go to a grad school in the US to get my Phd (in political science) as soon as possible. Provided I can get in to a school that offers a generous enough funding package/assistantship, I should be able to go after working for only one or two years in the UK. So my plan on graduating is to get a job, save for a year or two, then go to grad school, which takes five years.

Once I'm done with grad school, I'd like to stay in the US, get a job, and eventually become a citizen. This is where the problem is of course!

I was born in the UK, as were my parents, so am not eligible for the green card lottery. I have no immediate family in America or who are US citizens. Obviously, I have no money to invest, nor any extraordinary abilities.

All I'll have is initially a bachelors degree, and later a Phd.

So, what's my best route to getting permanent residency?

As I see it, there are 5 possibilities:

1) While I am studying there I happen to meet an American girl I don't mind the look of, we get married, and I come in that way

2) While I am studying there I manage to make friends or connections who can get me a job when I graduate for which my visa will be sponsored (one possibility here is that the faculty of my grad school would hire me on graduation in a research/teaching position)

3) Towards the end of my time studying I apply to US companies and manage to secure a job for which my visa will be sponsored when I graduate

4) After finishing my Phd I return to the UK, get a job and manage to have myself transferred to the US

5) After finishing my Phd I return to the UK and apply to US companies, remotely, for visa sponsorship

I'd like to go into lecturing eventually, but I'm also interested in working in business before then. I see myself perhaps working in business for a number of years, then going into lecturing. But equally, perhaps I'd just skip business and go straight into academia.

Within the rather broad gamut of 'business' I don't really have any particular inclination. Marketing, auditing, consulting, whatever really.

Is it possible I could secure sponsorship while studying as in options #2 and #3? Don't suppose anyone here owns/is in HR for a company that might be looking to recruit in a few years? 

Are there any sectors or companies that are likely to be my best bet for UK to USA transfers as in option #4? I figure it's probably not very helpful to ask in a job interview 'what are my prospects for getting transferred to the US'...

Will US companies actually sponsor visas of people who apply from abroad as in option #5?

Tips? What are my chances/how long is it likely to take to finally get that green card? Are there other options I've not considered?

Sorry for the big post. With graduation looming I want to get facts and advice so I can plan ahead and make sure I can make the right moves to get there as soon as possible.

ETA: If I could get a green card before doing my Phd that would be even better (improve my funding options for one thing) but I suspect my chances will be much better during/after my Phd studies.


----------



## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

A couple of thoughts on your plans...

Any one of the five scenarios you mentioned could work out for you, but there is talk of "overhauling" the immigration law (ok, to be honest, there always is) and things could change over the next few years.

You probably should be aware of what it takes for an employer to sponsor your visa application. Basically, they need to show that they have made an effort to hire a local national (or someone already legally resident in the US with working privileges) for the position without success. There is a validation process and a fee that the employer must pay (and that cannot be reclaimed from the foreign candidate). 

So basically, you need to have some skill, talent or experience that is not readily available on the US job market - one that is worth an employer's investment in time and $$ to go to bat for. Unfortunately, the US does not publish a list of "needed skills" like some countries do, so it's up to you to study the market. (And these things do change over time.)

Finding a job first and then getting transfered to the US is considered by many to be the "A ticket" as some (mostly large, international) companies have a sort of blanket approval for the necessary sort of visa. Unfortunately, many larger companies tend to hold back transfers to desirable locations to use as "perks" for upper level, long-time employees. Again, though, if you have some sort of training or experience that they can't find locally, you may be able to convince them to send you sooner than normal - it's a matter of getting to know the company and the various branches.

The marriage route is possible, but be aware that it can be challenged (and probably will be if the timing or circumstances suggest a marriage solely for visa reasons).
Cheers,
Bev


----------



## Skippy13 (Oct 1, 2008)

Hi Freeman, 

Sound like god options and, as FB says, things may change (soonish?) anyway. 

One thing I would say tho, is dont get too hung up on the USA....and what I mean by that is the USA is not the be all and end all. Dont wish your life away, be grateful for what you have, whats around you and take advantage of any opportunities you have NOW. 

Thats the best way to live rather than constantly focusing on something in your future. Im not saying "dont have goals", just balance that with the here and now


----------



## twostep (Apr 3, 2008)

All of your five options have potential. My question - why do you want to make the move to the US?

Funding - even as grad student you will have to show proof of funds for the first year and the source for the remainder of your education. Grants for foreign students are far and few. You would have to be top notch.

Why do you not apply for an exchange semester/year to get a feel for the US education system before making decisions?


----------



## FreemanUK (Apr 14, 2010)

Thanks for the replies guys. Big post incoming...

First a quick question: Does no-claims bonus on UK car insurance carry over to America?



Bevdeforges said:


> Any one of the five scenarios you mentioned could work out for you, but there is talk of "overhauling" the immigration law


Any idea what those reforms might look like? Is it likely to become easier or harder for me?



Bevdeforges said:


> You probably should be aware of what it takes for an employer to sponsor your visa application. Basically, they need to show that they have made an effort to hire a local national (or someone already legally resident in the US with working privileges) for the position without success. There is a validation process and a fee that the employer must pay (and that cannot be reclaimed from the foreign candidate).
> 
> So basically, you need to have some skill, talent or experience that is not readily available on the US job market - one that is worth an employer's investment in time and $$ to go to bat for. Unfortunately, the US does not publish a list of "needed skills" like some countries do, so it's up to you to study the market. (And these things do change over time.)
> 
> Finding a job first and then getting transfered to the US is considered by many to be the "A ticket" as some (mostly large, international) companies have a sort of blanket approval for the necessary sort of visa. Unfortunately, many larger companies tend to hold back transfers to desirable locations to use as "perks" for upper level, long-time employees. Again, though, if you have some sort of training or experience that they can't find locally, you may be able to convince them to send you sooner than normal - it's a matter of getting to know the company and the various branches.


Yes I was aware of that. Luckily perhaps, I'm not interested in the most desirable locations (I suspect) like Florida, California or New York. At the moment I think I'd like to live in New England - New Hampshire, Vermont, Maine. Also Virginia, Washington state, Colorado and Idaho would all be great. Plenty of other states I'd be happy with too, but I won't make an enormous list! Do want to avoid states like Wisconsin, Illinois, Massachusetts, Maryland and Cali, and southern/desert states as I won't be able to stand the heat/humidity. But to be honest, I'd accept a transfer no matter it was for. Once I get my green card I can just quit and move elsewhere, surely?



Bevdeforges said:


> The marriage route is possible, but be aware that it can be challenged (and probably will be if the timing or circumstances suggest a marriage solely for visa reasons).


I'm really not counting on the marriage route. I don't want to have it in the back of my head if I meet somebody "Go for it, you'll get a visa." I want to be confident I can get in on my own, marriage making it easier being just a bonus. Also, I doubt I'll meet any girls stupid enough to marry me at grad school 



twostep said:


> why do you want to make the move to the US?


Several reasons. I want to, eventually at least, go into academia, and the best and most attractive institutions are all in the US, particularly for my interests.

I love the outdoors, hiking, backpacking, camping, and the US (parts of it at least!) is just the most beautiful place. My real interest in that area is wilderness bivouac camping and survival skills, but there's just no wilderness in the UK.

I also enjoy hunting and I'm a big shooter. This is a total pain in the UK, the US has got a great gun culture, there's beautiful ranges and big shops all over the place (in some states anyway), everything is much much cheaper and more available, and the big thing is there's no (or very few) laws in the way. The only country I know of that comes anywhere close to the US for shooting is Switzerland, which is also hard to get into from what I hear, expensive to live, and of course I speak neither French nor German and I have no wish (or, I'll be honest, ability) to learn another language.

I'd also like to move for political reasons. Don't want to impose my politics on this thread! But suffice to say I'm not happy with the way Britain is governed, and the US is the country I would be happiest with in this regard. There's a lot more like-minded individuals across the pond for me to get involved with, and I'd also like to be involved in political activism movements that exist in the US but not here (certainly not of any size) or most anywhere else.

I believe the cost of living is also a lot lower, so I figure it's a good investment to move early and enjoy lower costs over my lifetime. Granted, there are plenty of other places with low and lower costs of living so that's not a primary reason.

I like American culture, cars, people... I think I'd enjoy the way of life there and the environment more than I do that in Britain. I'm not close with my family in Britain, so I suppose one of the main things that ties people down doesn't much apply to me.



Skippy13 said:


> One thing I would say tho, is dont get too hung up on the USA....and what I mean by that is the USA is not the be all and end all. Dont wish your life away, be grateful for what you have, whats around you and take advantage of any opportunities you have NOW.
> 
> Thats the best way to live rather than constantly focusing on something in your future. Im not saying "dont have goals", just balance that with the here and now


I see what you're saying. But I know what a struggle it will be to get into the US, if there were somewhere else I'd like to live I'd jump at it, but I genuinely don't think there's anywhere I'd love to live as much as America. I don't want to waste what I've got here in Britain, opportunities that might come my way, but equally I don't want to waste the opportunity to set things up from the get-go towards making it happen. I figure a lot of people get to 30 or 40, decide they want to move, and then realize it's a monumental struggle or impossible. Being young, I've got the advantage of being able to make sure I make it as easy as possible for myself, and of being able to make the move early on, enjoying all the advantages for more of my lifetime and having more time to adjust. Also, I expect it's probably easier to adapt to a different culture and way of life when you're young.



twostep said:


> Funding - even as grad student you will have to show proof of funds for the first year and the source for the remainder of your education. Grants for foreign students are far and few. You would have to be top notch.


I think I am able to show proof of funds for the first year, my parents have enough in stocks/shares/savings to theoretically pay tuition. But the schools I'm looking at waive first year tuition anyway (plus a stipend for living costs). I'm not quite sure if this waiver counts as proof of funding (since funding needed is actually zero) or if I do still need to show I could pay the tuition, but either way I think I'm ok.

For subsequent years, I'll have an assistantship or similar with a tuition waiver and stipend.

I'm looking at grad schools in the top 50 for political science, excluding those in places I wouldn't live (Arizona, for example) and that don't have generous funding.

Someone may correct me (I hope not!) but I believe graduate funding is much the same for international students as for Americans. Generally, at good schools, you get a waiver of tuition and a stipend in first year, then most students get an assistantship for subsequent years with a tuition waiver and stipend, so I don't actually pay anything. There's one or two (like Yale) that do not give assistantships and instead simply give a waiver and stipend for each year of study.

The school I go to will depend on funding as I can't afford to go without. I'm going to work for a year or two in the UK and save so that I'll have a bit of an egg for those initial costs like a car, computer, any visa/license fees, insurance, flights, deposit on an apartment etc, and to top-up my stipend.

Stipends seem to range from $16,000 to $30,000 a year, with most being maybe $18-20k. I'm not sure precisely how much it costs to live in America as a single student (likely in a shared apartment or house), which is something I need to find out. I'm sure it varies wildly depending on the town, and since I have no way of knowing what/which school I'll be accepted to it's hard to know anything concrete. But I'm hoping that my stipend plus a top-up from my savings each year will be enough to cover a reasonable standard of living...



twostep said:


> Why do you not apply for an exchange semester/year to get a feel for the US education system before making decisions?


I did look at this, but unfortunately it wasn't really an option. It only occurred to me that I could do a year in America in February of this year, and the deadline for applications was... February. I'd also already signed the contract for my rented house here in the UK for next year. I wouldn't want to live in a shared dorm, so I'd have to find an apartment there at short notice, and the only college we have an exchange program with that I'd want to go to is William & Mary in Williamsburg which is a really expensive area to live, so I don't think I could afford it at such short notice. I'd also need a car to get around, but I haven't passed my UK test yet, let alone confident enough to start driving on a whole new system. Lots of reasons why I'm not doing this really!

But, grad school is five years. Maybe the reality of American life will sink in and as soon as I'm done I'll be happy to run back to the UK. A few years of unpleasantness, worth the risk really, and it gives me the opportunity to really see what living there is like. On the other hand, I may love it there and be even more determined to make the move permanent.


----------



## twostep (Apr 3, 2008)

It sounds like you have a head on your shoulders. Start contacting the international student coordinators of the schools you are targeting. They will be able to answer your questions as of 2010 and maybe get you in touch with UK students enrolled in these programs. Legwork to be transferred to a spreadsheet.

Drivers license - google DMV and the respective state and you have everything at hand, requirements, tests ...

Insurance credit - I have heard that some insurances accept a written statement to lower premiums but in general it is a matter of shopping around. Bundle renter/car and it will get lowered.

Hunting/shooting - as long as you do not have visions of John Wayne other than in Sass:>) let's keep it PM as it seems to be a dicey topic.

Cost of Living - do not move to AL 

Reality of living there - you will live and experience a very small segment only.

At 21 the world is yours. Have you gone over the scenario of aging parents and the issues associated with it?


----------



## wka (Sep 18, 2009)

Hi,

I have a perspective to offer that may be of use to you. To begin with, I COMPLETELY understand your motivation and your thinking. I'm an American, born there and grew up there, and at age 14 decided to live in Greece permanently. It took until I was 28 before I was able to do it legally, but I used all fourteen of the years from ages 14 to 28 preparing for the move - it determined my undergraduate major and minor, my PhD program, my jobs/career, and practically every other part of my life for that time. Now, at the age of 29, I'm finally enjoying what I earned (and I do feel that I EARNED it, as I spent well over $100,000 on the process over the last 15 years). So I 100% back your thinking of trying to get things going as early in life as possible. I do not think that there is any great advantage to putting things off: we acquire more and more "issues" over time, we do not become simpler people. If you're going to do it, do it when you're young.

Also, I have experience in the education side of things. I am finishing my PhD at an American university (probably one of the ones you are looking at - an Ivy League school in New England). I want to say several things and I hope that you will listen!! 

- They write 5 years but it will take longer. Most people take 6-8 years. I know someone who took 10 years. Personally I enrolled in 2002 and I am not done yet (although I did take one year professional leave of absence to conduct research in Greece that did not contribute to the completion of my degree). 

- Do not accept an offer of admission without full financial support, which I doubt you would anyway. What you will get when they accept you: a stipend for the first year. This is usually around $16,000. If you have scientist friends, don't listen to them. They make loads more than we do. On top of that, you will get health insurance and all your tuition and school fees will be paid. There is often a small fee (my university assesses a $25 fee per semester for "student life" or something) but that's it. You will have to pay for your own books, your own food, your own lodging and all your utilities, a car and car insurance if you want to have one, and things like photocopies and such. 

In my New England city, I chose to live as close as possible to my department, and not have a car. This is not always possible, but was a good idea for me since I was often out of the country (in Greece) for extended periods of time of up to a year in one case. Most graduate students at city schools don't have cars. Don't fall into the American mindset of "you must have a car to survive in the US." It's not true especially if you live close to your department.

I lived in two different apartments. Of every graduate student I've ever met, I've only known ONE who purchased property (a very small condo practically on top of our department!). Everyone else rents. The first apartment I had, I rented for 4 years and paid $1300 /month for rent, NO utilities included. With telephone, cable internet, cell phone, security system, electricity, natural gas, and apartment insurance, it works out to about $1700/month. (No water bill in that city.) I had income that was not part of my graduate school stipend during those 4 years and that's how I could afford it. After those 4 years, I moved to Greece for a year, and came back; I decided to do what most people do and get a cheap place since I was also maintaining a residence in Greece at that point. I then rented an apartment together with 2 other people (3 bedrooms) a little farther away in a not-so-desireable neighborhood, for $1500/month but we split it 3 ways so I paid $500/month. When you added cell phone, cable internet, natural gas, and electricity (we didn't have a telephone or security system there, and I decided not to get insurance), it worked out to about $600/month. 

MOST graduate students in my city rent apartments in the $650-900/month range, even with a roommate. Obviously it is possible to find cheaper places like mine - but that $500 place was not so great, tiny, bad neighborhood, and did I mention tiny. Keep in mind that it was $1500 for the apartment, which although technically 3 bedrooms, was converted from 1 bedroom!

Once you've paid for your living quarters and utilities, there are not very many other expenses to contend with. I was usually able to get by on $400 more than my rent/utilities per month. That covered food, public transportation, and the rest. Of course I spent a veritable fortune on plane tickets since I was also tied to Greece. If you think you'd be visiting the UK, you MUST account for the cost of travel as well.

As I'm sure you know, it is tough to get into these programs. I'm the only person in my year (and no, the others didn't already graduate LOL! There was only ever one other and she was asked to leave for insufficient progress). My department only accepted 4 people this year and that is considered a lot. So make sure that you apply to a LOT of departments. I applied to 10, all over the country. 

Look carefully at your funding offer. You may be told that the program is 5 years, and you are guaranteed a fellowship your first year, an assistantship for the 2nd-4th years, and a dissertation fellowship for your 5th year. This is what I got. Of course, the reality is that the program is not actually 5 years. I got a fellowship for the 1st year, a teaching assistantship for the 2nd and 3rd years, a teaching fellowship for the 4th year, an **outside fellowship** for the 5th year, a teaching fellowship for the 6th year, a teaching assistantship for the 6th year (1st semester), a dissertation fellowship for the 6th year (2nd semester), and another outside fellowship for the 7th year (which is what I have now). I have completely exhausted funding at my university. They only gave me all those teaching jobs because I happen to be one of the only ones who LOVES teaching and really does it well (most of the others are really really into research). If you can prove yourself as a REALLY effective teacher early on, you have a better chance of getting more semesters covered - but they were NEVER guaranteed for me. I know plenty of people who didn't get them and had to work at non-university jobs - and if you are a foreign student, I don't even know if you can do that legally.

Outside fellowships are really important to PhD students. You should try to get them for multiple reasons, trust me. If you want more details I can go into it, but suffice it to say, seek them out and apply for them, starting as early as you can.

Another piece of advice: many universities (including mine) do not issue masters degrees to PhD students. Some (few, really) issue them as a matter of course. These are called "incidental masters degrees." If your university does not issue them, you should try to get one anyway. I always advise this to people even though I did not do it. If you should be forced to leave the program later on for any reason, you do not want to be ABD and leave with only the bachelor's degree that you started with. Get the masters even though you will have to write something or take some exams. I have seen SO MANY people forced out of programs and leaving with nothing or trying at the last minute to put together a masters thesis.

You will always have a tuition waiver and this is not what people mean when they talk about "you need funding to get a visa." Tuition, were it not waived for you, would be an ENORMOUS expense. What they are talking about is money to live on. Whether it be a stipend or an assistantship or a fellowship. NOBODY pays for their tuition with their stipend. But keep in mind that even with a tuition waiver, we ALL struggle to make ends meet with a stipend or assistantship. Most Americans I know would freak out if you asked them to live on less than $50,000/year. And yet we do it on under $20,000, with the same exact needs (rent, utilities, food, car, etc).

I respect that you don't to have "getting a green card" on the brain when you meet someone. But I will be honest with you. It sounds to me like you are oriented toward a life in the United States, in much the way I am oriented toward a life in Greece. I never dated non-Greek men, ever, because there didn't seem to be much point: I was going to live permanently in Greece, and I couldn't see a random American guy wanting to do that. It wasn't about the residence permit, it was about the simple reality of most people NOT wanting to live in foreign countries. I'd be willing to bet you money that you marry an American (if you marry someone). I am marrying my Greek fiance on Tuesday and the truth is that I simply can't imagine myself marrying someone who is not Greek with ties here since THIS is where I want to BE. I just don't think I could face the high probability of the other person deciding we really need to be in the US for one reason or another. Also, I'm head over heels in love with my fiance and can't imagine living without him, and would marry him even if it helped in absolutely no way towards getting a residence permit here. So it's not cynical. It's just practical.


----------



## wka (Sep 18, 2009)

One more note, specifically about Yale. I don't attend Yale but I have colleagues who do. You mention wanting to be in academia. I am also going into academia, or I guess it's better to say, never planning to leave academia.

DO NOT underestimate the importance of a GOOD teaching portfolio. This is what academic jobs are looking for. Yes, they want to see what you've published, what outside fellowships you've held, and all that. But the teaching portfolio is so so important!!

All recruiters will know that Yalies don't have as many opportunities to teach and they aren't going to shred your application, it's a good school. But I just looked at my CV and I've taught 16 college courses and I'm not even done yet. At a rate of one per semester PLUS summer and winter term courses, they add up. No grad student will be teaching more than one course per semester, but if you aren't even teaching ANY, you will not be as desireable for an ACADEMIC appointment.

This is one reason I did not want to go to Yale. Also because New Haven is a bit of a hole.


----------



## twostep (Apr 3, 2008)

@@@wka
Thank you so much for very informative posts from an insider point of view.


----------



## FreemanUK (Apr 14, 2010)

Wow, thank you so much for that post wka, really helpful! What subject are you doing?

Personally, I want to go into academia mostly for the teaching. I've had some really awful teachers, and I've had some really brilliant ones who have made such a difference to other students and myself. Like you say, I really want to teach, and I really want to teach well.

Research also interests me, there's lots of things I'd like to find the answers too, but I also find it hard to get passionate about those things. Interested, certainly, but not passionate like I am about teaching. This makes me doubt the (academic) path I've chosen sometimes but from what you've said I'm hoping it's ok, perhaps even helpful, to be like that!

From what you've said, if I were to live in a $650 a month apartment, plus $100 a month in utilities, and get a $16,000 stipend/fellowship/assistantship, I'd have $7,000 a year, or about $580 a month, to live on. Is that plenty or...?

I'll also be working for a year or two before I go, so I'm hoping to have at least $15,000 saved up which I'll use for initial expenses like a car, deposit on an apartment etc, and then save and use if needed. I may also be able to get a loan of a further $15,000 from the British government, that would be interest free until I graduate. That can be kept in reserve.

Suppose I was there for a certain number of years, not having completed my Phd yet, if I were to have to stop because of financial troubles is it possible to come back and complete my Phd or would I have to start from scratch?

I believe I can (on a student visa) work a certain number of hours a week 'on campus' as an international student during term time, and during holidays I can work full time if the job is of high relevance to my field of study. If possible, I'd prefer to not have to rely on working (beyond assistantships etc) to fund my studies as that gives me maximum time to focus on my studies, and ultimately a bit of free time to see and enjoy this new country. If that's not possible and I really do need to work, then of course I'll just have to and suck it up, but I'm hoping it won't come to that.

Do you know of any foreign students on your course who are getting (employment based) green cards when they graduate? I've heard elsewhere that a lot of students secure employment in their final year of study and thus visa sponsorship, not sure how common that is though.

What's making me nervous is the uncertainty of funding. It seems like, before I choose which offer to accept (assuming I get an offer from more than one institution!) I'll know what funding I'll get in the first year. And I might have a good idea of what I'll get for the 2-5th years, but it also seems uncertain since this depends on faculty essentially wanting to hire me in assistantship/research positions and if that doesn't work out I'm left with no funding. Also, as you say, I could well be there for more than the five years in which case I'm dependent on outside funding which must be very uncertain. I guess I'm worried I'll start, then be unable to secure funding for a particular year and end up with nothing (or only a masters).


----------



## wka (Sep 18, 2009)

You will be told what your funding will be for the total program (5 years or whatever it is estimated to be). You will not be expected to make a decision knowing only about the first year. For example you will be told "guaranteed stipend of $16,000 for 1st year, guaranteed assistantship, teaching fellowship, or proctorship for years 2-4, guaranteed dissertation fellowship for 5th year, competitive fellowship for 6th year, funding cap of 6 years" or something like that. You may not know what your funding will be in years 6 and 7 but if you have saved money you will be fine. 

As far as leaving and coming back - my institution allows for professional leave of absence (where you are gone for a year to do research or something) and family leave of absence (if you have a child or something) as well as medical leave of absence. For all of those you are guaranteed your spot on return. I believe this is standard.

I do know of some foreign students who were hired by American institutions like I have a friend who was in math and after he got his PhD he went to teach at MIT. He was only there for a few years though because he wanted to go home. I don't think he got a green card, just some kind of work permit for a short time (2 or 3 years or something). Since I'm an American citizen, I know VERY little about visas and permits for the US.


----------

