# Youth Mobility Agreement



## joshjadavies

Hi,
Apologies to regular readers of this forum who have noticed me posting in a few different threads on 2 or 3 different visa types. I'm just trying to find out all necessary information before I decide which visa to apply for.

Here is all the info I have found out on the Youth Mobility Agreement between Spain and Canada:

This is the actual agreement announced between Canada and Spain in 2009.

http://www.international.gc.ca/experience/assets/pdfs/canada-spain_eng.pdf

I qualify under Artifact 2(e)
"Young citizens who plan to travel to the other country and who wish
to work on a casual basis in order to increase their financial
resources or to do volunteer work."

I basically want to travel to Spain for a year and study spanish
however, if I was to apply for a Student Visa you have to sign up for
the school in advance. I want to go to Spain for a year but I may
only study for 3 months, or 6 months or who knows. I don't want to
pre-pay for 1 year, it's very expensive. The Youth mobility Visa
allows me to travel, study Spanish and do casual work for up to 1
year.

Also under Article 5.2 it says:
"Canadian citizens benefiting from the application of this agreement
for a stay exceeding 6 months, who are authorized to work under
Article 2, shall receive a foreign national identity card in order to
confirm their legal status in Spain and, if necessary, shall obtain
the corresponding administrative authorization to work, regardless of
the status of the national employment market in Spain. These
documents will be available for the entire authorized period of their
stay."

I take this to mean under Article 2(e), I do qualify for a year in
Spain which I will prove based on my financial records and I qualify
to work on a casual basis to increase my financial resources should I
need to however working is optional. I will receive a foreign
national identify card upon arrival and should I need to work and I'm
able to find work, then I'll obtain the authorization to work in Spain
however this is not necessary should I have the financial means to
support myself.

The next step is to apply:

Travel and Work Abroad | Frequently Asked Questions From Canadians About Travel and Work Abroad | International Experience Canada

FAQ section:

9. When can I apply?

"With a few exceptions, your travel and work abroad year can start at
any time, year-round."

12. Where can I obtain an application form?

"You can find applications at foreign embassies or consulates across
Canada. Or if you plan to use one of the Recognized Organizations that
provide services to facilitate your travel and work plans, you may
contact them directly."

Then I went to the Spain Consulate website for Canada to find the
forms and to apply.

Consulado de España en Toronto

Under Long term visas, it lists: Agreement between Spain and Canada on
Youth Mobility Programs.
When you click on it, it opens another document and has tons more info
for 2011, it doesn't say anything for 2012. When I called the
Consulate they say the 2012 info hasn't been released yet and they
don't know when it will and to check back frequently. 

Which is fine but when you read through all
the information in the document, there is 1 section I don't
understand.

EXPLANATORY NOTE:
 The participants who want to stay in Spain for a period of time
longer than 6 months and up to one year
will get a visa valid for 3 months. Once they are in Spain, and during
the validity of that visa, they
MUST ask for an authorization to work from the “Oficina de
Extranjeros” (Office for Foreigners) that is
competent according to their province of residence in Spain. The
procedure, which is the one
established by the Spanish Law, is explained in point 6. Once
participants have obtained the
authorization to work, they MUST ask for a “Tarjeta de Identidad de
Extranjero” (Foreigner ID Card) in
the same “Oficina de Extranjeros”. It must be understood that
according to the current Spanish Law,
both documents are linked and that it is not possible to get the
Foreigner ID Card without having the
authorization to work.

This makes it seem like they only give you a 3 month visa and YOU MUST
get the authorization to work card. If you look under the information
on how to obtain the authorization to work card you have to have a job
offer from a company in Spain. This doesn't make sense to me because
all previous info says I'm not required to work, and that I only need
the authorization to work card should I choose to work to help finance
my travels. What happens after the 3 months if I don't have or want
to work. How do I stay in Spain for the remaining 9 months? I
emailed the consulate to ask and this was their response:

"In regard to your question, you do not need employment before your
arrival in Spain.
Your information is not the correct information, you will ge the time
that your need directly for the Consulate."

I don't understand this response? I'm still confused about the 3 month visa and how I stay in Spain for 1 year under the Youth Mobility Agreement without working.


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## joshjadavies

FYI for other Canadians who need this info, all you have to do is put on the form that you want to apply for the visa for the entire year and prove you have sufficient funds when you apply.


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## joshjadavies

Any Canadians on here that have applied for the Youth Mobility Visa between Canada and Spain? I'm being denied because I don't have the proper medical documents. The application states, I must include a letter from my doctor that says:

“This medical certificate states that Mr./Mrs….. does not suffer from any diseases that may have serious consequences on public health in accordance with the provisions contained in the 2005 International Health Regulations.”

However, I've gone to 2 doctors and they have no idea what the 2005 International Health Regulations are. I found the link and although I don't understand all the medical terms it looks like it's only talking about yellow fever. My doctor wrote a note that said yellow fever does not exist in Canada and therefore I don't need to be vaccinated for it. However the embassy says this isn't good enough.

Any help is greatly appreciated.

Link to Spain Embassy in Toronto:

http://www.maec.es/subwebs/Consulad...rgaduración/Paginas/Long term visas.aspx#sec2

link to 2005 International Health Regulations:

http://whqlibdoc.who.int/publications/2008/9789241580410_eng.pdf


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## joshjadavies

I've been to 2 different doctors who both say, they need to know what to test for. When I ask the lady at the Spain embassy, she says I'm not a doctor how would I know... yet she still denies me. You think there'd be a list of exactly what to be tested or vaccinated for. 

All I can see from reading the 2005 IHR is yellow fever which is not a threat in Canada or Spain. This seems like the dumbest process ever. So frustrated.


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## NickZ

Panel Physician

My guess is any of these guys would understand the sort of tests you require.

There isn't a west coast consulate?


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## joshjadavies

NickZ said:


> Panel Physician
> 
> My guess is any of these guys would understand the sort of tests you require.
> 
> There isn't a west coast consulate?


Seems they don't. All of BC goes through Toronto. Although I'm going to try to call Ottawa just to see if they can answer my questions.


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## Brangus

joshjadavies said:


> I've been to 2 different doctors who both say, they need to know what to test for. When I ask the lady at the Spain embassy, she says I'm not a doctor how would I know... yet she still denies me. You think there'd be a list of exactly what to be tested or vaccinated for.
> 
> All I can see from reading the 2005 IHR is yellow fever which is not a threat in Canada or Spain. This seems like the dumbest process ever. So frustrated.


It's not just young Canadians who have to produce this document. Here is an example of what we submitted for our family members. It's a short statement signed by a doctor, which officially translated into Spanish reads:

"Por la presente confirmo que el señor don [ your name ] ha sido examinado y que no sufre de ninguna de las enfermedades que pudieran tener consecuencias públicas serias, como descritas y establecidas en las _International Health Regulations_ de 2005.

Firmado por un médico:
[signature, date, name and contact information of physician]"


Sorry I don't have an English version handy, but it's basically "I have examined the patient and found him/her to be free of any diseases that may have serious consequences to public health as described in the Internatl Health Regs."

Of the three people in my family, we went to two different doctors and none of us had more than a quick physical exam (listening to heart and lungs; palpating glands in the neck; peeping into ear canals; etc.).

I remember bringing to the doctor a copy of the flow chart on p. 43 of the Health Regulations. Note that the first box mentions diseases with "serious public health impact." This is what Spain is concerned about. The doctor read over the list of horrible afflictions -- smallpox, ebola, cholera, etc. -- and exclaimed, "But if you had any of these things, you'd be dead!" I suppose that's why no tests were necessary.

Two of us saved a little time and money by finding a doctor in the practice who felt comfortable signing the 1-sentence statement in Spanish, so we didn't have to go through a translator.

Yes, it does seem like the dumbest process ever. Even the doctor I saw used the word "archaic," I think.


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## joshjadavies

Brangus said:


> Two of us saved a little time and money by finding a doctor in the practice who felt comfortable signing the 1-sentence statement in Spanish, so we didn't have to go through a translator.
> 
> Yes, it does seem like the dumbest process ever. Even the doctor I saw used the word "archaic," I think.


i guess the hunt is on for a doctor who will write that exactly as described. for some reason they dont seem comfortable doing it as the definition is too broad.


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## NickZ

The link I gave is a list of doctors who do immigration medicals for the Cdn government. I'm sure they'll be able to handle it for you. Just pick one near to home.


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## joshjadavies

NickZ said:


> The link I gave is a list of doctors who do immigration medicals for the Cdn government. I'm sure they'll be able to handle it for you. Just pick one near to home.


Oh, I didn't even see your link, I will check that for sure, thank you.


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## joshjadavies

NickZ said:


> The link I gave is a list of doctors who do immigration medicals for the Cdn government. I'm sure they'll be able to handle it for you. Just pick one near to home.



I started calling everyone on the list and found one near my house. For $200 they do some blood work and chest xrays and have a template that they fill out for you to include with the Visa.

I told them the Spanish Consulate is very picky and requires the wording to be exactly as stated in the instructions. They didn't really want to write anything differently than there usual template but hopefully I can talk them into it tomorrow.

Thanks for you help!!


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## bluetuque

Hey Josh 

I'm going through this process at the moment and am looking for a suitable Dr. in Vancouver. Would you be able to post a link to the Vancouver Dr. you used for your assessment?


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## joshjadavies

bluetuque said:


> Hey Josh
> 
> I'm going through this process at the moment and am looking for a suitable Dr. in Vancouver. Would you be able to post a link to the Vancouver Dr. you used for your assessment?


I ended up finding a great walk-in clinic on West Broadway in Kitts. I explained the situation and the trouble I was having and the doctor agreed to send me for blood work checking for HIV, hepotitis, etc, the big ones. Once everything came back clear, she wrote me the letter exactly as worded, it must be exact. The lady at the Spanish consulate in Toronto is a nightmare, I was denied 3 times for the silliest things, she will deny you if its not worded exactly as in the application form.

I can't remember the doctors name but here is the website.

http://khatsclinic.ca/

Good luck,


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## bluetuque

Thanks for the info Josh. Your posts on here have been helpful... I'm going to check out that clinic tomorrow.


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## melissa20001

Josh, I'm happy to see your still posting on this thread. Are you able to tell us what actually happened with your visa in the end? I'm applying this year but I'm confused by the same information on the Spanish consulate website. I want to stay for 12 months but I don't want to work right away. Were you able to get a 12-month visa, or a 3-month visa and then apply for the foreigner card? 
I would really appreciate it if you could let me know what happened, I've read on wikipedia that the foreign office is refusing to issue work permits to working-holiday makers and I'm freaking out that I'll be forced to leave the country after 3 months. 
Thanks,
Melissa


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## xabiaxica

melissa20001 said:


> Josh, I'm happy to see your still posting on this thread. Are you able to tell us what actually happened with your visa in the end? I'm applying this year but I'm confused by the same information on the Spanish consulate website. I want to stay for 12 months but I don't want to work right away. Were you able to get a 12-month visa, or a 3-month visa and then apply for the foreigner card?
> I would really appreciate it if you could let me know what happened, I've read on wikipedia that the foreign office is refusing to issue work permits to working-holiday makers and I'm freaking out that I'll be forced to leave the country after 3 months.
> Thanks,
> Melissa



:welcome:

if you look at some of josh's other posts I think you'll see that he has joined his EU citizen girlfriend here & is/has been exploring the possibility of staying here as her partner

unless things have recently changed, if you come here on a 90 day tourist visa you can't change that status without returning to your home country - so even if you were to secure employment, you'd have to return to Canada while the employment visa was processed

& then, even if a company was willing to sponsor you, they'd have to prove that there were no EU citizens (who have automatic right to employment) available for the position...... which I'm sure you'll realise is highly unlikely, given the high unemployment rates here in Spain


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## melissa20001

Thanks for the relpy xabiachica, but I am asking about the WORKING HOLIDAY VISA, which is the topic of this thread and the category of visa under which Josh entered Spain.


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## NickZ

I'm too old and wouldn't need it but my understanding of the youth worker visa is 12 months in country. A total of six months working. How you split it up is your problem.

Try this. The visa goes both ways. Ask the Canadian government what the rules are for Spaniards coming to Canada. The treaty should provide the similar/same requirements/benefits.


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## melissa20001

Thanks also for your reply NickZ, but if you read the original post, you will see that the OP noticed the contradiction between what the Canadian government says about the requirements and what the Spanish government says. The information given on the Spanish consulate website under the youth mobility agreement seems to indicate that if you apply for a 12-month visa, you will be issued a 3-month visa and are required to find a job within those 3 months in order to get a foreign identity card and normalize your situation for the full 12 months. That doesn't make sense for a working holiday visa, as the primary purpose of this visa is to holiday, not to work. 

I am asking the original poster, or anyone who has first-hand experience applying for this visa in Canada to please clarify the process. Is the visa issued for 12 or 3 months, and what is the process after arrival in Spain? Are you required to work? 

Thanks,
Melissa


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## joshjadavies

melissa20001 said:


> Thanks for the relpy xabiachica, but I am asking about the WORKING HOLIDAY VISA, which is the topic of this thread and the category of visa under which Josh entered Spain.


I am indeed in Barcelona with the Working Holiday Visa between Canada and Spain. I'm here with my girlfriend who is an EU citizen so I was researching both methods of living in Spain. It took me 3 attempts but I finally got this visa. As stated in the instructions, you need health insurance, proof of income, a criminal background check, and a note from your doctor worded exactly as stated in the instructions. The problem for me was this note is extremely vague and it was very hard to find a doctor who was comfortable writing such a vague medical note.

I am only speaking from my experience, you will find in Spain that depending on who you talk to the answer is completely different. When you are accepted for the Working Holiday Visa they put an entry in your visa that says you can be in spain for 365 days starting on a specific date.

When I got to spain, the first things I tried to do were: 1) find an apartment, not a shared room but an apartment in my name, 2) open a bank account, 3) get a cell phone contract.
All of which they asked me for my NIE number before I could get them.
You can get foreigner back accounts and pay as you go phone contracts but I didn't want those.

I went to the oficina de extranjeros and asked to apply for my NIE number. At first they didn't want to give it to me without a job contract or a student visa. They said my working travel visa wasn't good enough. It took some convincing that I really really needed the NIE number to get an apartment and finally they did give me a 90 day NIE number. With this number I opened a bank account at La Caixa, then I rented an apartment in my name, at the apartment I pay for electricity, water, and internet, so I needed the NIE for that also. I also got a bici membership, it's a bike sharing program and you need your NIE for that also.

I was able to do all those things however now my NIE is expired. I know if you find a job you can go back to the oficina de extranjeros with the job contract and they will give you an NIE number that is valid for the duration of your stay. However, in my case I'm not really sure if I'm supposed to get it renewed for another 90 days or not. For now I don't really need it. Although I plan on changing apartments in April. I'm going to try to give them my expired NIE number and see what happens but I'm not sure.

I guess the best answer is, get the NIE and do everything you need to do in the first 90 days. Then if you get a job offer you can go back, otherwise, you probably won't need to use it again. 

They instructions are worded so vaguely they make it seem as if they will kick you out after the first 90 days if you don't get a job offer but that's not the case. If you rent a shared room in a flat and keep your canadian bank account, you probably would never even need an NIE number.


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## melissa20001

Great, thanks, that answers my question. The visa itself is issued for the full 12 months. As don't need to work in Spain, I don't need to worry about the work authorization part or getting kicked out after 3 months. That puts my mind at ease.


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## xabiaxica

melissa20001 said:


> Thanks for the relpy xabiachica, but I am asking about the WORKING HOLIDAY VISA, which is the topic of this thread and the category of visa under which Josh entered Spain.


yes..... but you mentioned 90 days - which is the visitor 'visa'

the 'working holiday visa' is for periods longer than 90 days & has to be applied for before leaving Canada




melissa20001 said:


> Great, thanks, that answers my question. The visa itself is issued for the full 12 months. As don't need to work in Spain, I don't need to worry about the work authorization part or getting kicked out after 3 months. That puts my mind at ease.




so you want a working holiday visa but have no intention of working........... 

forgive me - but that just seems fraudulent to me


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## NickZ

xabiachica said:


> so you want a working holiday visa but have no intention of working...........
> 
> forgive me - but that just seems fraudulent to me


With the economy I wonder what the chances of working are?


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## xabiaxica

NickZ said:


> With the economy I wonder what the chances of working are?


slim to nil, probably


which could be why she has heard that they aren't issuing them atm


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## joshjadavies

xabiachica said:


> so you want a working holiday visa but have no intention of working.
> 
> forgive me - but that just seems fraudulent to me


The travel work visa is exactly for that. Travel, learn new culture and language and maybe get a job to make some cash along the way. Possibly at a coffee shop or something similar part time. There are very few jobs in Spain so its a great idea to have enough money to support yourself but possibly be lucky enough to find a fun job to meet people, practise spanish and make a little side money. 

The only other option is a student visa for which you have to pay for your entire school term before arriving. However I may plan on staying in Spain for 1 year but only want to take 3 months of school. So this isn't the best option.

Or find a job before hand and have a company sponosor you, which is next to impossible. 

So for canadians just wishing to travel for up to a year with the slight opportunity of working, this is a great option.


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## canuckinspain

Hello!

I'd like to get this visa but the information available is so confusing!

They make it pretty clear on the embassy website that you need to have a job offer to get a WHV (for those who wish to work on an occasional basis). But this seems to go against the very idea of the visa (people travel and then work when they find a job on the road).

I don't know if you'll read this josh, but did they ask for this when you applied for the visa?

Anyone else applied for this type of visa recently?


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## joshjadavies

canuckinspain said:


> Hello!
> 
> I'd like to get this visa but the information available is so confusing!
> 
> They make it pretty clear on the embassy website that you need to have a job offer to get a WHV (for those who wish to work on an occasional basis). But this seems to go against the very idea of the visa (people travel and then work when they find a job on the road).
> 
> I don't know if you'll read this josh, but did they ask for this when you applied for the visa?
> 
> Anyone else applied for this type of visa recently?


Yes it's quite confusing but no you don't need a job offer prior to applying, they'll give you a visa to stay for the whole year. If you're lucky enough to get a job offer when you're here than there's more paperwork to do, but otherwise just apply.


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## canuckinspain

Thanks for the quick answer Josh. 

Hopefully the Montreal embassy is not as picky as the Toronto one...


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## joshjadavies

canuckinspain said:


> Thanks for the quick answer Josh.
> 
> Hopefully the Montreal embassy is not as picky as the Toronto one...


How did it go?
If you haven't gotten your visa yet when you go back can you ask thrm if it's possible to renew from Spain or do we have to return to Canada?


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## melissa20001

Working holiday visas cannot be renewed. They're a one time thing, and you must leave Spanish (and Schengen) territory when it expires. If you got a job contract, you could apply for another category under the youth mobility agreement - the young professionals category. However, there must be a 3 month break between two youth mobility visas (it is stated on the consulate webpage), and only the Spanish consulates in Canada process these visas. 

I did exactly that for France and I had to fly home just to go to the consulate.


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## joshjadavies

melissa20001 said:


> Working holiday visas cannot be renewed. They're a one time thing, and you must leave Spanish (and Schengen) territory when it expires. If you got a job contract, you could apply for another category under the youth mobility agreement - the young professionals category. However, there must be a 3 month break between two youth mobility visas (it is stated on the consulate webpage), and only the Spanish consulates in Canada process these visas.
> 
> I did exactly that for France and I had to fly home just to go to the consulate.


Seems crazy to me that you need to return for 90 days. I´m already here, if I´m lucky enough to get a job offer here no company is going to wait while I return to Canada for 90 days. Completely ridiculous.

In cases like this I completely understand why people break the laws and stay.


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## melissa20001

I think it's quite logical considering that youth mobility visas are in effect long-stay tourist visas. They follow the same rules as regular tourist visas for Canadians requiring 90 days between stays. Furthermore, they're designed to give temporary experience living in another country in order to return home with valuable work skills and contribute to your own economy, the key word being temporary. By no means are they a fast-track to residency and, as tourist visas, they don't count towards residency requirements. A lot of Spaniards are now trying to use them in order to stay in Canada indefinitely - the rules for Canada are different, and I don't know if anyone could be successful, but they were never designed to be a stepping stone to immigration. Anyone who's trying to stay in Europe indefinitely, should consider another route because these visas come with a lot of road blocks to prevent people from doing that. 

Regarding the young professional category, it was designed for people with specific professional goals who would benefit from an international experience. In France, those working in IT had great success with it and were being snapped up by companies who appreciated the simplified paperwork process. Coming at it from the other way - as a way to stay longer in a specific country - isn't what it was meant for. If you have in-demand skills in Spain, then you shouldn't have a problem. If you don't, then this category/country isn't really for you.

What you think is completely ridiculous is simply due to the fact that you're trying to manipulate the visas in order to serve your own purposes, rather than using them the way that they were designed to be used.


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## joshjadavies

melissa20001 said:


> I think it's quite logical considering that youth mobility visas are in effect long-stay tourist visas. They follow the same rules as regular tourist visas for Canadians requiring 90 days between stays. Furthermore, they're designed to give temporary experience living in another country in order to return home with valuable work skills and contribute to your own economy, the key word being temporary. By no means are they a fast-track to residency and, as tourist visas, they don't count towards residency requirements. A lot of Spaniards are now trying to use them in order to stay in Canada indefinitely - the rules for Canada are different, and I don't know if anyone could be successful, but they were never designed to be a stepping stone to immigration. Anyone who's trying to stay in Europe indefinitely, should consider another route because these visas come with a lot of road blocks to prevent people from doing that.
> 
> Regarding the young professional category, it was designed for people with specific professional goals who would benefit from an international experience. In France, those working in IT had great success with it and were being snapped up by companies who appreciated the simplified paperwork process. Coming at it from the other way - as a way to stay longer in a specific country - isn't what it was meant for. If you have in-demand skills in Spain, then you shouldn't have a problem. If you don't, then this category/country isn't really for you.
> 
> What you think is completely ridiculous is simply due to the fact that you're trying to manipulate the visas in order to serve your own purposes, rather than using them the way that they were designed to be used.


Manipulate? 
I have a computer engineering degree and 13 years experience with top American software companies. I'm here legally unlike many other North Americans. Now I'm looking for a job as a means to continue to stay here legally. If I'm lucky enough to find a job, and attempt to apply for a 2nd visa, leaving the country first makes absolutely no sense. 

A lot of companies still have problems justifying hiring a foreigner when there are so many unemployed in Spain. So rather than a company needing to go through the process I want to apply to extend my current visa a second year and I prefer not to have to leave for 3 months to do it.


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## xabiaxica

joshjadavies said:


> Manipulate?
> I have a computer engineering degree and 13 years experience with top American software companies. I'm here legally unlike many other North Americans. Now I'm looking for a job as a means to continue to stay here legally. If I'm lucky enough to find a job, and attempt to apply for a 2nd visa, leaving the country first makes absolutely no sense.
> 
> A lot of companies still have problems justifying hiring a foreigner when there are so many unemployed in Spain. So rather than a company needing to go through the process I want to apply to extend my current visa a second year and I prefer not to have to leave for 3 months to do it.


if you were to be offered a position, & the company felt that you were special enough that they would apply for a visa for you, then that visa can't be applied for while you're in Spain, anyway - you'd have to go back to Canada


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## NickZ

joshjadavies said:


> and attempt to apply for a 2nd visa, leaving the country first makes absolutely no sense.



The argument for requiring people to apply for visas while abroad is what happens if the visa is refused?

Think about it. If they refuse your visa they would have to chase you down and expel you. Doesn't make much sense.

The other issue. Who in Spain is supposed to look over your visa and the paperwork? The staff with the training to handle visa applications from Canadians are in Canada . Working in Spanish consulates in Canada.


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## joshjadavies

NickZ said:


> The argument for requiring people to apply for visas while abroad is what happens if the visa is refused?
> 
> Think about it. If they refuse your visa they would have to chase you down and expel you. Doesn't make much sense.
> 
> The other issue. Who in Spain is supposed to look over your visa and the paperwork? The staff with the training to handle visa applications from Canadians are in Canada . Working in Spanish consulates in Canada.


Thats true, hadn't thought of that.


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## melissa20001

If you had entered Spain on a student visa perhaps you could have changed it for a work visa without leaving the country. I'm not sure if that is possible in Spain, I haven't looked into it, but it's very easy to do in France, for example. My point is that youth mobility visas don't work like that, you must leave the country and reapply for a new visa. If your intention was to have a continuous stay in Spain, then you chose the wrong visa to do that. Or maybe choosing to go to a country with a lower unemployment rate would have made things easier for you.


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## joshjadavies

melissa20001 said:


> Or maybe choosing to go to a country with a lower unemployment rate would have made things easier for you.


Gee thanks for the advice. Did it ever occur to you I want to live in Spain. Sometimes I seriously think people have to much time on their hands. If you're not going to reply in a manner that is to help someone, why bother replying at all?


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## melissa20001

Because I've been an expat for 12 years. I have plenty of experience applying for visas and know how hard it is for Canadians to come to Europe. I have had 3 youth mobility visas, and I understand what they are for and how they work. There's lots of countries around the world I would love to live in, but I know that it's not as easy as pointing to a map and saying "I want to live there, gimme a visa". Why should a country with 27% unemployment let more people in? What benefit would they bring to the economy? 

Why are you asking questions on a public forum if you're only willing to listen to the answers that you want to hear?


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## Jocelyne

*Youth Mobility NIE*

Hi there,

I'm another Canadian heading to Spain with a Youth Mobility Visa. I just got the visa and now am looking for more information about NIE for Youth Mobility Visa holders. 
Two questions:

1. Apparently I can get the NIE in Canada, but it will expire after three months. The consulate advises getting a NIE for the entire year in Spain. Has anyone gotten a NIE in Canada? How did it work?

2. As for getting the NIE in Spain, has anyone else had success in getting a NIE for a full year without needing proof of a work contract? I know I'll need it to get myself set up before landing a job.

Thanks!!


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## xabiaxica

Jocelyne said:


> Hi there,
> 
> I'm another Canadian heading to Spain with a Youth Mobility Visa. I just got the visa and now am looking for more information about NIE for Youth Mobility Visa holders.
> Two questions:
> 
> 1. Apparently I can get the NIE in Canada, but it will expire after three months. The consulate advises getting a NIE for the entire year in Spain. Has anyone gotten a NIE in Canada? How did it work?
> 
> 2. As for getting the NIE in Spain, has anyone else had success in getting a NIE for a full year without needing proof of a work contract? I know I'll need it to get myself set up before landing a job.
> 
> Thanks!!


:welcome:

NIE numbers are for life, for everyone who has one issued - it's the 'certificate' they're printed on which expires after 3 months - & that's the same whether you get it here in Spain or in Canada


tbh I'm amazed that the youth mobility scheme is still running when more than 50% of under 24s in Spain are unemployed - if you come, I hope you find work - but that figure should tell you what you're up against


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## Jocelyne

xabiachica said:


> :welcome:
> 
> NIE numbers are for life, for everyone who has one issued - it's the 'certificate' they're printed on which expires after 3 months - & that's the same whether you get it here in Spain or in Canada
> 
> 
> tbh I'm amazed that the youth mobility scheme is still running when more than 50% of under 24s in Spain are unemployed - if you come, I hope you find work - but that figure should tell you what you're up against


Thanks Xabiachica 

If the NIE document expires after three months is the next step to get residency (even if I'm not an EU citizen) or to renew the NIE document? 
AND do you think I'll need a work contract for that?

No worries. I do know what I'm up against and trying to remain optimistic...


----------



## xabiaxica

Jocelyne said:


> Thanks Xabiachica
> 
> If the NIE document expires after three months is the next step to get residency (even if I'm not an EU citizen) or to renew the NIE document?
> AND do you think I'll need a work contract for that?
> 
> No worries. I do know what I'm up against and trying to remain optimistic...


I'm not 100% sure, but I think your visa will get/gets you temp residency

hopefully josh who started the thread or one of the others who have done this will come back & let you know

don't worry about the NIE cert expiring - you only need a new one if you have to show it for something


----------



## 213979

Jocelyne said:


> Thanks Xabiachica
> 
> If the NIE document expires after three months is the next step to get residency (even if I'm not an EU citizen) or to renew the NIE document?
> AND do you think I'll need a work contract for that?
> 
> No worries. I do know what I'm up against and trying to remain optimistic...


Hello!

Here's the process for non-EUs like us: 

1. Get the visa in your home country

2. Come here and (nearly immediately) apply for the NIE (number) and TIE (ID card with the NIE on it, your "residency" card). When you apply, you will be given a slim paper "resguardo" to keep which has your NIE number on it. KEEP your resguardo. It's your ID until you get the official residency document.

3. Wait until they send you a letter granting you (or not!) residency. Go to the office on a date indicated on this letter. 

4. Pick up your official TIE card which has your NIE on it. This is now your official Spanish ID document and it's proof of your residency. If you're here for a specific program it will expire when your program finishes or shortly after.


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## melissa20001

Hi, 
I have the youth mobility visa and live in Barcelona. I tried to get an NIE here and they asked me for either a work contract or a letter of study. They told me to go to another office and try get a TIE, and it was exactly the same thing - work contract or letter of study. I still don't have an NIE, and I haven't really needed one. You might have more luck if you plan to live in a different city.


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## snikpoh

melissa20001 said:


> Hi,
> I have the youth mobility visa and live in Barcelona. I tried to get an NIE here and they asked me for either a work contract or a letter of study. They told me to go to another office and try get a TIE, and it was exactly the same thing - work contract or letter of study. I still don't have an NIE, and I haven't really needed one. You might have more luck if you plan to live in a different city.


Don't be confused - anyone can get an NIE (you just have to think up a good reason to need one).

The 'residencia' or TIE in your case requires rather more detail, paperwork and reasons. Basically, if you want to reside here for longer than 90 days, then you need to be able to show that you can support yourself (financially and health-wise). 

So, you either need to have a job or are here to study and have sufficient funds in the bank to cover this expense.


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## melissa20001

No one is confused. To get an NIE you must provide evidence in documentary form as to why you want one. For non-EU nationals such as us, that could be either 1. Property purchase agreement 2. Work contract 3. Attestation of studies. 

How to get NIE number in Barcelona? » Home in BCN

The system here is Spain is not fast enough to make the changes necessary to recognize the youth mobility visas. That's why the extranjeria still asks for one of the above documents, even though we do not have them. They simply haven't changed the process yet because the visa is so new. 

Also, youth mobility visas do not make you eligible for residency. They are basically long-stay tourist visas with the beginning and expiry dates printed on them one year apart. They are not 3-month visas which require you to register as a resident and get a TIE. Furthermore, they are not renewable or extendable. You must leave Spain before the expiry date printed on your visa (because you are not a resident, you are a tourist).


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## xabiaxica

melissa20001 said:


> No one is confused. To get an NIE you must provide evidence in documentary form as to why you want one. For non-EU nationals such as us, that could be either 1. Property purchase agreement 2. Work contract 3. Attestation of studies.
> 
> How to get NIE number in Barcelona? » Home in BCN
> 
> The system here is Spain is not fast enough to make the changes necessary to recognize the youth mobility visas. That's why the extranjeria still asks for one of the above documents, even though we do not have them. They simply haven't changed the process yet because the visa is so new.
> 
> Also, youth mobility visas do not make you eligible for residency. They are basically long-stay tourist visas with the beginning and expiry dates printed on them one year apart. They are not 3-month visas which require you to register as a resident and get a TIE. Furthermore, they are not renewable or extendable. You must leave Spain before the expiry date printed on your visa (because you are not a resident, you are a tourist).



that website is wrong......

a NIE can be got by anyone - you just have to have a good reason to have it - such as buying or inheriting property, a car, some banks require it for non-resident accounts 

the simple fact that the website says to use the EX18 PROVES that it's wrong - the EX18 is for registering as resident - for just a NIE you use the EX15

if you go to the extranjería with the EX18, then of course they'll be asking for proof of income etc - you'll be trying to register as resident - & you need it for that

NOT just for a NIE number


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## melissa20001

I don't see any problem with that website since this thread is about non-EU citizens. You need to scroll down the page to where is says "Non-EU citizens", about halfway down. That information is correct and it says EX-15, which is this one:

http://www.interior.gob.es/file/58/58421/58421.pdf

In any case, the form you fill out is not the issue here. We are discussing the supporting documents you need to present as NON-EU CITIZENS in order to get a NIE. For example "Document proving why you need a NIE number: normally, it’s an real estate engagement contract registered at the notary showing that you’re going to buy a property in Spain, i.e. house, apartment, garage, car, etc.), or a company ownership certificate." Or that document can also be 2. Work contract 3. Enrollment in a school. That is what they TOLD ME when I walked in there and asked. 

I think this thread is getting quite confusing due to the fact that some contributors do not hold youth mobility visas or are citizens of the European Union and have not followed the same procedure as for non-EU citizens. So, Jocelyn, if you would like to private message me I can give you specific information related to the youth mobility visa, NIE for non-EU citizens, or the foreigner's office in Barcelona.


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## xabiaxica

melissa20001 said:


> I don't see any problem with that website since this thread is about non-EU citizens. You need to scroll down the page to where is says "Non-EU citizens", about halfway down. That information is correct and it says EX-15, which is this one:
> 
> http://www.interior.gob.es/file/58/58421/58421.pdf
> 
> In any case, the form you fill out is not the issue here. We are discussing the supporting documents you need to present as NON-EU CITIZENS in order to get a NIE. For example "Document proving why you need a NIE number: normally, it’s an real estate engagement contract registered at the notary showing that you’re going to buy a property in Spain, i.e. house, apartment, garage, car, etc.), or a company ownership certificate." Or that document can also be 2. Work contract 3. Enrollment in a school. That is what they TOLD ME when I walked in there and asked.
> 
> I think this thread is getting quite confusing due to the fact that some contributors do not hold youth mobility visas or are citizens of the European Union and have not followed the same procedure as for non-EU citizens. So, Jocelyn, if you would like to private message me I can give you specific information related to the youth mobility visa, NIE for non-EU citizens, or the foreigner's office in Barcelona.



the fact that it has the wrong info for EU citizens is bad enough to make me doubt the veracity of everything else........... it says EU citizens use the EX18 for a NIE - & that's wrong

EVERYONE - EU & NON-EU should use the EX15 for a NIE - you do have to have a reason for needing it though

it makes no difference if you're EU, non-EU, on a mobility visa, no visa - not even IN Spain

all you need is a good enough reason to get one - & the reasons you have quoted are the same for everyone 

if you don't have an offer of a job, or aren't buying or inheriting property then you don't need one anyway - so I really can't see a problem or any reason to apply for one - simply because you don't NEED one


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## snikpoh

I have pointed out the many errors on their web site to them - let's see if they agree and correct all the factual errors.

For a non-EU citizen, you do NOT need documentary proof of why you need an NIE - it might help of course.

Just because someone introduces a new visa doesn't mean that Spain has to support it straight away. To do that they will have to change a number of their processes and then communicate these changes. As we have seen already, Spain is notoriously bad at change!

In the OP's situation, why bother with an NIE?


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## Jocelyne

melissa20001 said:


> I don't see any problem with that website since this thread is about non-EU citizens. You need to scroll down the page to where is says "Non-EU citizens", about halfway down. That information is correct and it says EX-15, which is this one:
> 
> 
> In any case, the form you fill out is not the issue here. We are discussing the supporting documents you need to present as NON-EU CITIZENS in order to get a NIE. For example "Document proving why you need a NIE number: normally, it’s an real estate engagement contract registered at the notary showing that you’re going to buy a property in Spain, i.e. house, apartment, garage, car, etc.), or a company ownership certificate." Or that document can also be 2. Work contract 3. Enrollment in a school. That is what they TOLD ME when I walked in there and asked.
> 
> I think this thread is getting quite confusing due to the fact that some contributors do not hold youth mobility visas or are citizens of the European Union and have not followed the same procedure as for non-EU citizens. So, Jocelyn, if you would like to private message me I can give you specific information related to the youth mobility visa, NIE for non-EU citizens, or the foreigner's office in Barcelona.


Hi Melissa,

I'm in Madrid and just got back from the foreigner's office. They asked me to fill out the Ex12 (which I had never even seen before today, was expecting 15) and come back with a signed work contract and a lot of paperwork from the new employer. 
Have you managed to complete this process? 
Do you think it will hurt my employment prospects to not already have a NIE?

Thanks!!


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## xabiaxica

Jocelyne said:


> Hi Melissa,
> 
> I'm in Madrid and just got back from the foreigner's office. They asked me to fill out the Ex12 (which I had never even seen before today, was expecting 15) and come back with a signed work contract and a lot of paperwork from the new employer.
> Have you managed to complete this process?
> Do you think it will hurt my employment prospects to not already have a NIE?
> 
> Thanks!!


hmmmm

so that's a 'Solicitud de autorización para trabajar' - _request for authorisation to work_

surely if you are here on the mobility visa you already have that??


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## Jocelyne

Well, I thought so. It's supposed to be one of the conditions of my visa.
They gave me an entire document explaining the process for Youth Mobility Visa holders to follow in order to get a work permit. It's more complicated than just getting a NIE.


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## xabiaxica

Jocelyne said:


> Well, I thought so. It's supposed to be one of the conditions of my visa.
> They gave me an entire document explaining the process for Youth Mobility Visa holders to follow in order to get a work permit. It's more complicated than just getting a NIE.



as I think I said earlier in the thread (maybe a different one?) - tbh I'm amazed that the scheme is still running, what with unemployment what it is

call me a cynic - but could they be making it as difficult as possible for you???


I guess you'll just have to play along & do what they say - let us know how you get on - & good luck :fingerscrossed:


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## vincent35

Hey Jocelyn I am in the same situation as you

but I am not in Madrid yet, but I will be in Madrid in January on the Youth Mobility Visa, did you ever get that situation sorted out? 

what exactly do we need to work in Spain? just the NIE?, as long as we have the NIE can we immediately work? or do is this authorization de trabajar thing separate from the NIE, or is it one in the same. 

I am fairly confident I can get someone to sign a work contract for me, but it will make things much easier for me if I can simply get an NIE number to work so I can just go job hunting with my right to work already with me.

hope you can help me and hope you're doing well.


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## NickZ

xabiachica said:


> as I think I said earlier in the thread (maybe a different one?) - tbh I'm amazed that the scheme is still running, what with unemployment what it is
> :


Remember the thing goes both ways. Spanish kids can get the same visa to visit Canada.

The other thing IIRC you only get to work for six months. Basically it allows "kids" to earn some pocket money while visiting.


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## Jocelyne

vincent35 said:


> Hey Jocelyn I am in the same situation as you
> 
> but I am not in Madrid yet, but I will be in Madrid in January on the Youth Mobility Visa, did you ever get that situation sorted out?
> 
> what exactly do we need to work in Spain? just the NIE?, as long as we have the NIE can we immediately work? or do is this authorization de trabajar thing separate from the NIE, or is it one in the same.
> 
> I am fairly confident I can get someone to sign a work contract for me, but it will make things much easier for me if I can simply get an NIE number to work so I can just go job hunting with my right to work already with me.
> 
> hope you can help me and hope you're doing well.


Hi Vincent,

This visa is tricky. Either no one has heard of it or they know what it is but have no idea what the rules are or how to process it. My problem wasn't getting a work contract, but the fact that it can take months to get the appointment to process the work authorization.

I ended up going to every oficina de extranjería and they all told me to do something different. I chose the easiest process and so far it's working out  However, be warned. It requires a lot of arguing or persuading bureaucrats to do what you want. Make sure you bring someone who speaks Spanish if you don't. 

Here is what worked for me after much trial and error (no guarantee it'll work for anyone else):

1. Go to the Oficina de Información de Extranjería at Manuel Luna 29 (Metro Estrecho)
They have a document here with the most current "rules" regarding our visa. It's titled "Instrucción SGIE 1/2013 Sobre Aplicación del Acuerdo Entre España y Canadá...". 

This is important because the section "Primera" says that we have permission to work without having to complete any other paperwork or process.

Make several copies of this document and take them with you everywhere.

2. Go to the Comisaria General de Extranjería Y Fronteras at Calle San Felipe 7 y 9 (Metro Tetuán or Valdeacederas). Take all the documents you would need for a NIE and TIE. 

Argue with them until they agree to give you a NIE and an ID card. Ask to talk to the supervisor. Tell them you cannot get this done in Aluche or Calle Silva. Don't give up. 

After filling out all the paperwork they will give you a paper with your NIE and tell you to return in 3 weeks for your ID. 

3. Get a Padrón.

4. Go to your social security office. Argue with them until they give you a social security number. Show them your visa, the paper with your NIE, the document from Manuel Luna and your Padrón.

5. Go get a job. You can work now 

I still have problems because some employers don't believe I actually have permission to work. None of them have seen this kind of visa and it's so vague that they think I'm mistaken. Some of them say it checks out and some don't. 

Another issue is that they gave me a Student ID card at San Felipe. It doesn't really help my case when I'm trying to prove to someone that I have permission to work in Spain. I tried to get it changed but they say our visa falls under the student "umbrella". 

However, I am employed and my social security is up and running. The last step is to get my health card. 

Good luck!!

Jocelyne


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## vincent35

Thanks for your detailed response! 

just wondering, are you an English teacher, because most English speakers in Spain are English teachers, if so, if you don't mind me asking, which academies or schools did you apply to or are working for now?, 

thanks again.


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## xabiaxica

vincent35 said:


> Thanks for your detailed response!
> 
> just wondering, are you an English teacher, because *most English speakers in Spain are English teachers*, if so, if you don't mind me asking, which academies or schools did you apply to or are working for now?,
> 
> thanks again.



really? whatever gave you that idea?

of all the native English speakers I know personally - NONE are English teachers......


I teach Spanish - but I know various estate agents, beauticians, hairdressers, print shop owners, publishers, artists & writers (the kind that actually make a living from it), builders, plumbers, shop owners of things from underwear to food, bar & restaurant owners, & so on - in fact a similar mix to the people I knew back in the UK - & even some politicians!


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## vincent35

ahhh ok, maybe it's just me then lol 

but I am glad everything worked out for you!
thanks again for your detailed response I will be cutting and pasting and saving it somewhere!

thanks again and FELIZ navidad and feliz viejanoche!


----------



## vincent35

Jocelyne said:


> Hi Vincent,
> 
> This visa is tricky. Either no one has heard of it or they know what it is but have no idea what the rules are or how to process it. My problem wasn't getting a work contract, but the fact that it can take months to get the appointment to process the work authorization.
> 
> I ended up going to every oficina de extranjería and they all told me to do something different. I chose the easiest process and so far it's working out  However, be warned. It requires a lot of arguing or persuading bureaucrats to do what you want. Make sure you bring someone who speaks Spanish if you don't.
> 
> Here is what worked for me after much trial and error (no guarantee it'll work for anyone else):
> 
> 1. Go to the Oficina de Información de Extranjería at Manuel Luna 29 (Metro Estrecho)
> They have a document here with the most current "rules" regarding our visa. It's titled "Instrucción SGIE 1/2013 Sobre Aplicación del Acuerdo Entre España y Canadá...".
> 
> This is important because the section "Primera" says that we have permission to work without having to complete any other paperwork or process.
> 
> Make several copies of this document and take them with you everywhere.
> 
> 2. Go to the Comisaria General de Extranjería Y Fronteras at Calle San Felipe 7 y 9 (Metro Tetuán or Valdeacederas). Take all the documents you would need for a NIE and TIE.
> 
> Argue with them until they agree to give you a NIE and an ID card. Ask to talk to the supervisor. Tell them you cannot get this done in Aluche or Calle Silva. Don't give up.
> 
> After filling out all the paperwork they will give you a paper with your NIE and tell you to return in 3 weeks for your ID.
> 
> 3. Get a Padrón.
> 
> 4. Go to your social security office. Argue with them until they give you a social security number. Show them your visa, the paper with your NIE, the document from Manuel Luna and your Padrón.
> 
> 5. Go get a job. You can work now
> 
> I still have problems because some employers don't believe I actually have permission to work. None of them have seen this kind of visa and it's so vague that they think I'm mistaken. Some of them say it checks out and some don't.
> 
> Another issue is that they gave me a Student ID card at San Felipe. It doesn't really help my case when I'm trying to prove to someone that I have permission to work in Spain. I tried to get it changed but they say our visa falls under the student "umbrella".
> 
> However, I am employed and my social security is up and running. The last step is to get my health card.
> 
> Good luck!!
> 
> Jocelyne


Hello Jocelyne it's me again,

I am just wondering, you mentioned that piece of paper at the beginning, the "primera" section, are you saying that technically, we can work without doing anything? with just the visa alone?


----------



## Jocelyne

vincent35 said:


> Thanks for your detailed response!
> 
> just wondering, are you an English teacher, because most English speakers in Spain are English teachers, if so, if you don't mind me asking, which academies or schools did you apply to or are working for now?,
> 
> thanks again.


Hi Vincent,

I actually am an English teacher. Lol.
I did a lot of research online about schools before coming to Madrid and went personally to check out the ones I thought looked good once I got here. I then applied to my top ten, based my own needs and requirements in a school. 

There are lots out there, some more legit than others. My advice is to decide what kind of place you want to work for before you apply. The Madrid Teacher website is a good place to start investigating. 

Cheers!

Jocelyne


----------



## Jocelyne

vincent35 said:


> Hello Jocelyne it's me again,
> 
> I am just wondering, you mentioned that piece of paper at the beginning, the "primera" section, are you saying that technically, we can work without doing anything? with just the visa alone?


Yup. But you still need to get at least a NIE and Social Security number in order to be legally employed here.


----------



## vincent35

Jocelyne said:


> Yup. But you still need to get at least a NIE and Social Security number in order to be legally employed here.


Perfect!
Thanks again

I have started to process
but I have heard a lot of different stuff about the NIE and getting an appointment and then them giving you the appointment for 6 months later.

I can simply show up to the office/police station and ask?
that would make my life much simpler

thanks again for your input


----------



## christie.vantol

Jocelyne said:


> Hi Vincent,
> 
> This visa is tricky. Either no one has heard of it or they know what it is but have no idea what the rules are or how to process it. My problem wasn't getting a work contract, but the fact that it can take months to get the appointment to process the work authorization.
> 
> I ended up going to every oficina de extranjería and they all told me to do something different. I chose the easiest process and so far it's working out  However, be warned. It requires a lot of arguing or persuading bureaucrats to do what you want. Make sure you bring someone who speaks Spanish if you don't.
> 
> Here is what worked for me after much trial and error (no guarantee it'll work for anyone else):
> 
> 1. Go to the Oficina de Información de Extranjería at Manuel Luna 29 (Metro Estrecho)
> They have a document here with the most current "rules" regarding our visa. It's titled "Instrucción SGIE 1/2013 Sobre Aplicación del Acuerdo Entre España y Canadá...".
> 
> This is important because the section "Primera" says that we have permission to work without having to complete any other paperwork or process.
> 
> Make several copies of this document and take them with you everywhere.
> 
> 2. Go to the Comisaria General de Extranjería Y Fronteras at Calle San Felipe 7 y 9 (Metro Tetuán or Valdeacederas). Take all the documents you would need for a NIE and TIE.
> 
> Argue with them until they agree to give you a NIE and an ID card. Ask to talk to the supervisor. Tell them you cannot get this done in Aluche or Calle Silva. Don't give up.
> 
> After filling out all the paperwork they will give you a paper with your NIE and tell you to return in 3 weeks for your ID.
> 
> 3. Get a Padrón.
> 
> 4. Go to your social security office. Argue with them until they give you a social security number. Show them your visa, the paper with your NIE, the document from Manuel Luna and your Padrón.
> 
> 5. Go get a job. You can work now
> 
> I still have problems because some employers don't believe I actually have permission to work. None of them have seen this kind of visa and it's so vague that they think I'm mistaken. Some of them say it checks out and some don't.
> 
> Another issue is that they gave me a Student ID card at San Felipe. It doesn't really help my case when I'm trying to prove to someone that I have permission to work in Spain. I tried to get it changed but they say our visa falls under the student "umbrella".
> 
> However, I am employed and my social security is up and running. The last step is to get my health card.
> 
> Good luck!!
> 
> Jocelyne



Hi Jocelyne,

I am currently in Madrid, Spain with a valid Youth Mobility Visa. I am receiving a job offer from a school in Gijon, can I still follow your steps up until point 3 in Madrid? Or will I have to pursue the complete process in Gijon?

Did pursuing the process in Madrid limit you to taking jobs in Madrid?

I would very much appreciate a reply as soon as possible.

From a fellow Youth-Mobility-er,
Yours Truly,
Christie.


----------

