# Council Tax



## Granny (Apr 22, 2014)

Hi, we are thinking of moving to Spain ( after a long delay ) and could do with your help!! 
We wonder what Spanish council tax is, is it less or same as in the UK ? 
We'll probably be looking at urbanised houses rather than rural.
Any comments much appreciated

Thanks
Jan


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

Granny said:


> Hi, we are thinking of moving to Spain ( after a long delay ) and could do with your help!!
> We wonder what Spanish council tax is, is it less or same as in the UK ?
> We'll probably be looking at urbanised houses rather than rural.
> Any comments much appreciated
> ...



It's very difficult to generalise as the bill for each house, in each different municipality, is different - we don't have just bands as with Council Tax in the UK. It depends on the individual plot size and the number of square metres built - plus a whole host of other things. I once saw a copy of the official document setting out how it's calculated and it really did make my eyes glaze over!

It also very much depends on when the catastral values (like the old rateable values) were last updated in a particular area. If they haven't been revised for several years, bills are likely to be quite low. However, the last revision in my area, for example, was in 2008 at the height of the property boom and therefore our bills are comparatively high.

However, having said that, here my bill last year was €528 for a 3 bed, 2 bath 169sqm town house, compared with the £1,100 per annum I would be paying now for my old house in the UK, which was smaller. And the town I live in here has many more municipal facilities (sports centres, swimming pool, parks and gardens, theatre, etc) than the village I lived in in the UK. I actually got a discount on my bill of €240, but that only applies to my local Council which introduced the discount scheme to help people with increased bills because of the catastral revision.

As a rule, the IBI (Council Tax) bills for houses in the campo tend to be lower because there are fewer facilities there.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Granny said:


> Hi, we are thinking of moving to Spain ( after a long delay ) and could do with your help!!
> We wonder what Spanish council tax is, is it less or same as in the UK ?
> We'll probably be looking at urbanised houses rather than rural.
> Any comments much appreciated
> ...


What do you mean by "urbanised"? Do you mean a house in a village or town or one in an 'urbanisation'? If the latter you will find all sorts of weird add-ons depending on whether each property has its own bill or whether the entire urb is billed and then each property billed from that.

If you are in a town, city, village the IBI (impuesto sobre los bienes inmbobiles) is billed based on your catastral value. Here, in this village, on a five bedroomed house spread over five levels with a total of 220 sq metres our bill is €159 for the year 2014.

In UK we paid app. £1000 p.a. for a 1 bedroom flat.


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## Justina (Jan 25, 2013)

Do five levels mean five floors, Baldi?


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Justina said:


> Do five levels mean five floors, Baldi?


One (the lowest) is the patio, woodstore and workshop so although one could live down there if one wished, I wouldn't necessarily call it a floor hence my terminology.


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## Trubrit (Nov 24, 2010)

I live in a 5 bedroomed house set in 1200 aquare metres of garden and we pay zilch, zero, nada, nowt Yay probably because we have ****** all in the way of services, but I love it here.


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## Justina (Jan 25, 2013)

The doctors always insist that walking upstairs is good for one, so I was thinking that you must be as fit as a fiddle, bypassing the ma in law


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## Justina (Jan 25, 2013)

The above was for Baldilocks


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## extranjero (Nov 16, 2012)

Trubrit said:


> I live in a 5 bedroomed house set in 1200 aquare metres of garden and we pay zilch, zero, nada, nowt Yay probably because we have ****** all in the way of services, but I love it here.


Bet you do- no wonder Spain's in a state! Something wrong with the system if services such as fire police and ambulance , maintenance of motorways, parks, beaches etc are available to all, yet some pay nothing! Before someone writes that the IBI doesn't go on these things, it goes on whatever the council wants it to go on!


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## Trubrit (Nov 24, 2010)

I really don't think that is the problem. Payment in the black is the real problem here in Spain.


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

Trubrit said:


> I really don't think that is the problem. Payment in the black is the real problem here in Spain.


Absolutely disagree (although black money is a problem as well) - everyone should pay their dues.

EVERY house is required to pay it's 'contribution' (IBI). We've discussed this before and they will eventually catch up with you!

When I looked into this (as I thought I was paying too much), I was officially told that EVERY house pays IBI.

Our IBI is 1100€ for a 550 m2 property with 7000m2 of land (although we pay 17€ extra for the land). But then we are totally legal.

Many, many properties in Spain are 'illegal' in some way with parts of their property not being registered. For example, if you've bricked in a patio or built a pool, all these need to be declared.

[By-the-way; If the cadastral hasn't been updated for a while, they use a 'fudge' factor to bring it up-to-date]


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

I believe that Trubrit rents - so maybe it's paid by the owner, or included in the rent

if not, it's the owner who should be castigated, not Trubrit 


but yes, it's a big problem

our ayto rented a plane & took aerial photos of the town....... many illegal/unregistered properties & extensions were discovered - rather than issue demolition orders in most cases, the owners were fined & made to start paying IBI - this has increased income for the town considerably


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## gus-lopez (Jan 4, 2010)

Here ours was revised in 2005 & reduced by an average of 30%. Everyone's catastral value was reduced & then the % that you pay at, was also reduced. Ours is still nearly 30% less than it was when I bought the place !


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

xabiachica said:


> I believe that Trubrit rents - so maybe it's paid by the owner, or included in the rent
> 
> if not, it's the owner who should be castigated, not Trubrit
> 
> ...



Ah, that explains it then - sorry, TRUBRIT


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## gus-lopez (Jan 4, 2010)

xabiachica said:


> our ayto rented a plane & took aerial photos of the town....... many illegal/unregistered properties & extensions were discovered )


Ours does that every year , & they always have done, as does Puerto Lumbreras next door. In PL's case they actually go after owners , fining them & either getting them legalised or demolished. In Lorca's case I've no idea what they do with it all as nothing seems to be done around here.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

gus-lopez said:


> Ours does that every year , & they always have done, as does Puerto Lumbreras next door. In PL's case they actually go after owners , fining them & either getting them legalised or demolished. In Lorca's case I've no idea what they do with it all as nothing seems to be done around here.


it's something that should have been done years ago - but previous administrations had turned a blind eye to so much over the years

at least things are getting better now


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## caromac (Nov 16, 2008)

Ours will be about 180 euro for this year. Village centre property all amenities.


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## Aron (Apr 30, 2013)

xabiachica said:


> I believe that Trubrit rents - so maybe it's paid by the owner, or included in the rent
> 
> if not, it's the owner who should be castigated, not Trubrit
> 
> ...


Our area uses satellite navigation, using a plane to take photographs is expensive these days. We use the catastral website to view our property and everyone else's in our immediate area. The satellite is much more precise. My wife has a small water feature on our terrace and even that is visible on the photo. I just go on to the catastral website, enter the reference number and everything comes up on the screen. You can occasionally see plots of land with no house, yet the house is there but the builder never notified the change to the owner. If the house isn't shown, then it's obvious the IBI hasn't been paid. I will emphasise, we live on urban land.
Our IBI is €240 per year


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Granny said:


> Hi, we are thinking of moving to Spain ( after a long delay ) and could do with your help!!
> We wonder what Spanish council tax is, is it less or same as in the UK ?
> We'll probably be looking at urbanised houses rather than rural.
> Any comments much appreciated
> ...


We have a 3-bed 170m2 detached house in an inland town. The total costs for IBI (council tax), water, sewerage disposal and rubbish collection come to about €700 a year. 

These charges do vary wildly depending on where you are, though I doubt there is anywhere where they are higher than the UK.


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## Pazcat (Mar 24, 2010)

Aron said:


> Our area uses satellite navigation, using a plane to take photographs is expensive these days. We use the catastral website to view our property and everyone else's in our immediate area. The satellite is much more precise. My wife has a small water feature on our terrace and even that is visible on the photo. I just go on to the catastral website, enter the reference number and everything comes up on the screen. You can occasionally see plots of land with no house, yet the house is there but the builder never notified the change to the owner. If the house isn't shown, then it's obvious the IBI hasn't been paid. I will emphasise, we live on urban land.
> Our IBI is €240 per year



Everybody looking to buy a house should know about the catastral and goolzoom sites. It has the potential to save thousands in lawyers fees.
For example and not for the first time the house we visited last night, despite the bare faced lies from the agent and owner when we got home and checked, the house was definitely not fully legal nor on urbano land.

Something though is definitely wrong here when you have people afraid to buy houses because of legality issues, people afraid to make their houses fully legal, people can't lift a shovel or paint a wall without declaring it or people simply cannot afford to comply amongst other things.
Hopefully things are on the turn around but I dare say the issue runs much deeper than black money and tax avoidance.


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## extranjero (Nov 16, 2012)

No one should be paying a derisory sum for IBI, or even nothing!
Why don't they have a baseline 300 euros per year for every property. and add on sums for amenities?
I live on an urbanisation and pay 400 euros a year. I paid only a bit less when there were no shops, medical centre etc built, for several years, The bus service is scant and inadequate, lighting needs restoring, and roads need attention. I would say local villages who Pay far less have more amenities.
To those who say unemployed people can't afford it, it's probably less than the amount they spend already on drink, **** and smartphones!


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## Aron (Apr 30, 2013)

extranjero said:


> No one should be paying a derisory sum for IBI, or even nothing!
> Why don't they have a baseline 300 euros per year for every property. and add on sums for amenities?
> I live on an urbanisation and pay 400 euros a year. I paid only a bit less when there were no shops, medical centre etc built, for several years, The bus service is scant and inadequate, lighting needs restoring, and roads need attention. I would say local villages who Pay far less have more amenities.
> To those who say unemployed people can't afford it, it's probably less than the amount they spend already on drink, **** and smartphones!


I think the Spanish should be allowed to run their affairs as they want, and we as immigrants should fit in with that wherever you chose to live.


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## extranjero (Nov 16, 2012)

Aron said:


> I think the Spanish should be allowed to run their affairs as they want, and we as immigrants should fit in with that wherever you chose to live.


I think, as a tax paying resident, not a guest in this country, I have a right to express my opinion! 
If how they run their affairs affects me adversely, then I have the right to say so, just like every Spanish person!


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## Aron (Apr 30, 2013)

extranjero said:


> I think, as a tax paying resident, not a guest in this country, I have a right to express my opinion!
> If how they run their affairs affects me adversely, then I have the right to say so, just like every Spanish person!


I am a taxing paying resident, I consider myself to be a guest in this country. Okay, you don't agree, I have no problems with that. If anything really affected me adversely I'd go back to the UK. I came to Spain to relax. I live in a village with many problems, but I have learnt to adapt, I try and live with my Spanish neighbours who rarely complain. 
Yes, there are many problems, but there were a lot more in the country I used to live in.


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## gus-lopez (Jan 4, 2010)

extranjero said:


> No one should be paying a derisory sum for IBI, or even nothing!
> Why don't they have a baseline 300 euros per year for every property. and add on sums for amenities?
> 
> To those who say unemployed people can't afford it, it's probably less than the amount they spend already on drink, **** and smartphones!


You could also say the same about car tax. Yours is far cheaper down there than up here in Lorca. & next door in Almeria it's so low as to be ridiculous. I pay more for my car than they do for an articulated tractor unit in Andalucia ! 
I'm basically a suburb of the town yet have no street lights, not that I want them , nor do we have any buses.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

While you are all sniping at each other about who pays too little and who pays too much, the rich landowners are sitting back laughing because they pay almost nothing. The well known Duchess of Alba has a personal fortune estimated to be between 600 million and 3.5 billion, yet even if the upper figure were correct she would only just make it into the top ten in Spain.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Trubrit said:


> I live in a 5 bedroomed house set in 1200 aquare metres of garden and we pay zilch, zero, nada, nowt Yay probably because we have ****** all in the way of services, but I love it here.


I thought you rented?
May be the owner pays the IBI.
Either way, every house is liable for IBI so if it's your house and you're not paying something's wrong somewhere


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

baldilocks said:


> While you are all sniping at each other about who pays too little and who pays too much, the rich landowners are sitting back laughing because they pay almost nothing. The well known Duchess of Alba has a personal fortune estimated to be between 600 million and 3.5 billion, yet even if the upper figure were correct she would only just make it into the top ten in Spain.


The church doesn't pay IBI on its properties either. Just think how many pot-holes could be mended if they did.


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

:boxing:


extranjero said:


> No one should be paying a derisory sum for IBI, or even nothing!
> Why don't they have a baseline 300 euros per year for every property. and add on sums for amenities?
> I live on an urbanisation and pay 400 euros a year. I paid only a bit less when there were no shops, medical centre etc built, for several years, The bus service is scant and inadequate, lighting needs restoring, and roads need attention. I would say local villages who Pay far less have more amenities.
> To those who say unemployed people can't afford it, it's probably less than the amount they spend already on drink, **** and smartphones!



In the UK, I lived on an unadopted road which meant that any potholes in the road surface, or defects to the pavement, had to be paid for by the residents themselves - although we still paid the same £1100 pa Council Tax as people whose houses were in the same band but whose streets were adopted.

There were countless Local Authorities where Council Tax for properties in the same band was much lower, although their towns had more amenities.

Whatever system is adopted there will always be those who whine "it's so unfair". Some think it's unfair that people living in small houses pay less than those in larger ones because they use the same services. Others think local taxes for very rich people living in the biggest houses should be much higher because they could afford to pay more. 

Personally, I think that overall the amounts we pay in Spain represent much better value. When you sell your house and move back to the UK you can have fun writing to the local paper about the iniquity of how much you'll have to pay there.


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## Trubrit (Nov 24, 2010)

Pesky Wesky said:


> I thought you rented?
> May be the owner pays the IBI.
> Either way, every house is liable for IBI so if it's your house and you're not paying something's wrong somewhere



You are wrong I am afraid. I do rent and the owner does not pay my IBI. I have checked with other neighbours and they all say that we do not pay it here. That being said, in my previous home IBI was not payable either.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Trubrit said:


> You are wrong I am afraid. I do rent and the owner does not pay my IBI. I have checked with other neighbours and they all say that we do not pay it here. That being said, in my previous home IBI was not payable either.


Sorry.
You are in the unusual position of not paying IBI then, but as you don't own the house it isn't your responsibility anyway I suppose.
Somebody must be looking ndown on you from high up then as it's basically you, your neighbours and the church that don't pay IBI in Spain!
(There are a few others like Cruz Roja too, but you see you're in "special" company  )


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## Trubrit (Nov 24, 2010)

I will enquire at the ayuntamiento tomorrow and see what they say. I will probably come out with a bill for 2 grand.


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

Trubrit said:


> I will enquire at the ayuntamiento tomorrow and see what they say. I will probably come out with a bill for 2 grand.


You are more likely to get a shrug and "si, pero es complicado ...".


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## Pazcat (Mar 24, 2010)

Not sure I'd be doing that unless your landlord gives you permission, it's not something that you need to worry about. 
I'd say the reason there is no tax is because the house isn't legally registered, could open a world of trouble for the landlord.

Just find your house on goolzoom and see if it is registered on there.


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

Pazcat said:


> Not sure I'd be doing that unless your landlord gives you permission, it's not something that you need to worry about.
> I'd say the reason there is no tax is because the house isn't legally registered, could open a world of trouble for the landlord.
> 
> Just find your house on goolzoom and see if it is registered on there.


Where do I find instructions for goolzoom? 

I've just looked for my property under "registered" but it says there isn't anything. Clearly I'm not using the system correctly.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Our Ayto doesn't issue reminders for unpaid IBI etc. They just slap on a percentage surcharge for late payment, which accumulates over the years. A friend of mine claimed that he never paid IBI because nobody had ever asked for it. When he tried to sell the house they printed off a bill for arrears of nearly €4,000. You have been warned!


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## Pazcat (Mar 24, 2010)

snikpoh said:


> Where do I find instructions for goolzoom?
> 
> I've just looked for my property under "registered" but it says there isn't anything. Clearly I'm not using the system correctly.



Basically just zoom in on your property and on the left hand side there should be two choices under the "Catastro" tab, "Colour" & "Transparante".
Tick the box for transparente as it's easier to see on the satellite and it will bring up
an overlay of what is registered into the system.
It should show a red outline on all the works declared on the property and when you click on the house it should show your "Referencia catastral de la parcela:" number.

In some areas I have found, many, many houses don't even appear in the system at all.
By my thinking at least if they are not in the system then they wont be paying any tax.

You can also see how many things like pools that were never declared and these people are likely not paying the right property taxes either.

Very handy website when you are looking to buy a house.


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## Aron (Apr 30, 2013)

snikpoh said:


> Where do I find instructions for goolzoom?
> 
> I've just looked for my property under "registered" but it says there isn't anything. Clearly I'm not using the system correctly.


It's not easy to find through the government website. I haven't done it for years now, but here are the words to use for the website. ovc.catastro.meh.es/

You need to look for the part referring to the cartografia datos


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## Aron (Apr 30, 2013)

snikpoh said:


> Where do I find instructions for goolzoom?
> 
> I've just looked for my property under "registered" but it says there isn't anything. Clearly I'm not using the system correctly.


Try this

https://www1.sedecatastro.gob.es/OVCFrames.aspx?TIPO=CONSULTA


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Alcalaina said:


> Our Ayto doesn't issue reminders for unpaid IBI etc. They just slap on a percentage surcharge for late payment, which accumulates over the years. A friend of mine claimed that he never paid IBI because nobody had ever asked for it. When he tried to sell the house they printed off a bill for arrears of nearly €4,000. You have been warned!


Exactly. It's the way it's done in general here. The same happens with parking/ driving fines. It's your responsibility to find out if you have a fine, not the resposibility of the authority to inform you.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Trubrit said:


> I will enquire at the ayuntamiento tomorrow and see what they say. I will probably come out with a bill for 2 grand.


It might not be your responsibility.
See what it says in your contract, not only specifically looking for the IBI, but any mentions of paying ayuntamiento bills, or all house bills or something along those lines.
I seem to remember you having landlord problems not so long ago so maybe he's already got this covered in the contract, but there's no use volunteering to pay it if it's not yours to pay.
Here's some more info about who does and doesn't pay


> ¿Quien tiene que pagarlo? Los propietarios, usufructuarios o quienes disfrutan de una concesión administrativa del inmueble. Su cuantía -el porcentaje- la establecen los ayuntamientos en función del valor catastral, que es fijado por la Dirección General del Catastro del Ministerio de Hacienda y que no puede superar el valor de mercado. El IBI está regulado por la Ley de Haciendas Locales.


Interesting to note that apart from the catholic church


> también hay acuerdos firmados: religión evangélica, comunidad israelita y religión islámica.


 Ver más en: http://www.20minutos.es/noticia/1487124/0/ibi/exenciones/iglesia-catolica/#xtor=AD-15&xts=467263


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## Aron (Apr 30, 2013)

Alcalaina said:


> Our Ayto doesn't issue reminders for unpaid IBI etc. They just slap on a percentage surcharge for late payment, which accumulates over the years. A friend of mine claimed that he never paid IBI because nobody had ever asked for it. When he tried to sell the house they printed off a bill for arrears of nearly €4,000. You have been warned!


My understanding is, they can only go back 4 years with the IBI. That was the case with us. We kept trying to pay, but for one reason or another, we couldn't. Eventually we asked our solicitor to do it for us. It took her 10 minutes on the phone and we had a bill for the previous 4 years. They gave us 21 days to pay without surcharges. Though I will say this, there are places not far from us where 4 years could be €4k


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

Aron said:


> My understanding is, they can only go back 4 years with the IBI. That was the case with us. We kept trying to pay, but for one reason or another, we couldn't. Eventually we asked our solicitor to do it for us. It took her 10 minutes on the phone and we had a bill for the previous 4 years. They gave us 21 days to pay without surcharges. Though I will say this, there are places not far from us where 4 years could be €4k


I seem to have read somewhere that it has changed (or is going to change) to 13 years.

Anyone else heard this?


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## Aron (Apr 30, 2013)

snikpoh said:


> I seem to have read somewhere that it has changed (or is going to change) to 13 years.
> 
> Anyone else heard this?


I would very much doubt that Spanish land records could go that far back, they are struggling with the present!


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

Those who believe that insufficient income is being received by Ayuntamientos because IBI bills are too low may be interested to see this article which shows that in fact they are the only part of Government which has seen their income increase because the amount collected in IBI has been rising substantially during the last few years - the figures for some areas (and not those where large numbers of foreign residents tend to live, either, giving the lie to those who persist in seeing themselves as cash cows for the Spanish authorities) are staggering.


12.000 millones de euros por el IBI s?lo en 2013 | Econom?a | EL MUNDO


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