# UK University Fees after Brexit



## Chopera (Apr 22, 2013)

Just got this update..






Living in Europe: citizens' rights if you moved before 1 January 2021


Information for UK nationals living in the EU, EEA EFTA countries and Switzerland since before 1 January 2021, including guidance on residency and healthcare.




www.gov.uk





_*Studying in the UK*
You will continue to be eligible for home fee status (the fee rate that students who live in the UK are charged), as well as Student Finance support or Further Education 19+ funding, as long as:_


_you are living in the EEA and Switzerland on 31 December 2020, and you have lived in the EEA, Switzerland, the UK and Gibraltar for at least the 3 years before starting a course in the UK_
_you have lived continuously in the EEA, Switzerland, the UK and Gibraltar between 31 December 2020 and the start of your course_
_the course starts before 1 January 2028_
_You do not need to have lived in the UK to access this offer, as long as you meet all of these conditions as a UK national._


The deadline of 2028 appears new to me.

This issue has been brought up a few times so I thought it worth its own thread


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

Yes this is good news and to be honest fair. There are many UK nationals who moved with their families to EU countries ( prior to Brexit) with an understanding that their children would have access to UK education with the same rights as UK residents if they were to return to UK. Many families lived in UK and had paid taxes for many years and many still do pay uk taxes for properties, etc. To have suddenly said after Brexit that their children would be regarded in the same category of non uk nationals would have been grossly unfair as it would mean they would have to pay international fees if they returned. The fact that it only goes to 2028 does mean children returning later than this date could face problems though.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

2028 cut-off date may be deliberate, as those who will be first affected are just starting secondary school in 2021 and have a chance to decide whether they will continue their education in UK, and thus qualify for home student fees, or in EU.


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

Yes that's true. Again seems fair


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

I should add that young families coming to Spain now whose children are not already in secondary schools need to be aware that their children may not have access to UK universities or colleges as home students when they finish their EU secondary education. I imagine this will mean there is little point in sending children to international private schools in Spain if you cant afford the international student fees in UK. In fact I imagine that many are international schools may be affected by these changes.


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## Chopera (Apr 22, 2013)

Joppa said:


> 2028 cut-off date may be deliberate, as those who will be first affected are just starting secondary school in 2021 and have a chance to decide whether they will continue their education in UK, and thus qualify for home student fees, or in EU.


Yes I wondered that. My elder child would be in his final year of primary school in the UK system, and would just qualify in time, but the younger one would not.


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

Yes, I can see your dilemma. It is a difficult situation. If your child hasn't started secondary in 2021 then if they wanted to continue their education in UK they would possibly have to return to UK when they are 16 so as to prepare for exams. If they do the whole Spanish system they might not have access to UK home fees ( unless they were prepared to live and work for 3 years in UK prior to starting a course).
I wonder how it will work in Scotland as under EU rules EU nationals qualify for free tuition. However UK nationals in England have to pay. After Brexit will all UK nationals still be allowed free tuition in Scotland or only ones born there?


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## Chopera (Apr 22, 2013)

kaipa said:


> I should add that young families coming to Spain now whose children are not already in secondary schools need to be aware that their children may not have access to UK universities or colleges as home students when they finish their EU secondary education. I imagine this will mean there is little point in sending children to international private schools in Spain if you cant afford the international student fees in UK. In fact I imagine that many are international schools may be affected by these changes.


I had quite an interesting chat with the head of a "top" British school in Madrid last year, and he hinted that it's almost as easy for a bilingual child to get into a UK university with Spanish qualifications as it is for a bilingual child with A levels. He said by all means send your child to a British school because you think they'll receive a better education, but don't send your child there just because you think British qualifications would be more recognised than Spanish ones.


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

Yes it's true that the Bachelerato is easily transferable for UK universities. I have a friend whose daughter did it last year. Problem is that EU students will need to pay international fees after 2021 if they wish to study in UK institutions irrespective of their qualifications.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

kaipa said:


> I wonder how it will work in Scotland as under EU rules EU nationals qualify for free tuition. However UK nationals in England have to pay. After Brexit will all UK nationals still be allowed free tuition in Scotland or only ones born there?


Scottish government has announced that free tuition fee for EU students will end for those starting their course in the autumn of 2021 i.e. academic year 2021-2. 
UK students living outside Scotland have never qualified for free tuition at Scottish universities, and they pay the equivalent of fees levied elsewhere in UK, around £9,200. Otherwise, Scottish unis would have been rammed with applicants from England, Wales and N Ireland.


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

Yes but UK nationals born in Scotland who have moved outside were entitled to free tuition if they lived in EU. The question is will that continue?


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## Chopera (Apr 22, 2013)

kaipa said:


> Yes, I can see your dilemma. It is a difficult situation. If your child hasn't started secondary in 2021 then if they wanted to continue their education in UK they would possibly have to return to UK when they are 16 so as to prepare for exams. If they do the whole Spanish system they might not have access to UK home fees ( unless they were prepared to live and work for 3 years in UK prior to starting a course).
> I wonder how it will work in Scotland as under EU rules EU nationals qualify for free tuition. However UK nationals in England have to pay. After Brexit will all UK nationals still be allowed free tuition in Scotland or only ones born there?


OK, here comes my rant...

To be honest it's not that big a deal to me as I have quite a few doubts about the value in paying UK (or at least English) university fees these days anyway. I looked into British schools in Madrid and was unconvinced of their value for money as well. The British education system smells of operating as a cartel these days, trapping people into paying high fees because there is little alternative. Most 18 year olds are too young to really know what they want to do in life because they simply don't have the experience. They spend their formative years sweating over exams instead of discovering. And then they are expected to decide on studying one particular subject for the next 3 or 4 years of their lives, while taking on huge amounts of debt. Chances are they'll end up studying the wrong subject anyway, or one that quickly becomes obsolete. I've spent the last 20 years working as a web developer. When I appliued to uni the world wide web didn't even exist. The chances of the skills learnt in technical degrees staying relevant for long are small, the degree just ends up being a rubber stamp to prove you have demonstrated a certain level of competency. But with something like 20% of students getting firsts these days anyway, even the rubber stamp is losing value.

There might be some advantage if a child can get into a top UK university, or wants to do a particular course that is not available in Spain, but I can't think of much else. They probably have a better "experience" at a UK university than in Spain, but for the 50k debt they come out with, there are plenty of other "experiences" to choose from.


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

I totally agree with you. Technology is pushing everything at a remarkable rate. Many of the IT people developed their skills by learning themselves. Those skills have provided them with lots of opportunities. A degree in that field is not anything like as important as experience. I also agree that many young people are simply unable to know at the age of 18 what they really want to do and easily end up trapped with huge debts. University degrees often act as symbols and nothing more. Paying for education simply favours the rich and of course they go on to often shape the world favouring their own values. What's important is teaching people the skills which enable to become independent learners flexible enough to adapt to what I imagine will be an ever changing future


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## Isobella (Oct 16, 2014)

Agree more or less Chopera. The debt is a big thing for UK ones. I did one year at Sevilla University but it was yonks ago. Found it very different from UK Uni. More like doing A'level compared to UK. According to a relative it is still roughly the same. She said there are not the networks to be involved with student Unions etc.and not scope to develop new ideas and critical thinking. I think if I intended to live in Spain I would stay there. If I was aiming high I would choose USA or UK. Spain does not do well in world rankings.
UK Universities seem to be just money makers now. Grandson told me in one Lecture 95% of the students were foreign, Many hardly speak English and he said they just use google translate!! Although the way it is going most of the little darlings will be getting a first


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

It's very true Isobella. I worked at a university for a while teaching Saudi students a pre-entry English course. Their levels were ridiculously low when they started and they had 6 months to achieve the required level. The university charged them a fortune even when it was obvious they would never get the IELTS score needed. Only 2 got the necessary level and even then I very much doubt they could possibly write any comprehensible academic papers. It was a terrible rip off to which I felt very bad afterwards


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## Chopera (Apr 22, 2013)

Yes, one of the slight upsides to EU based students losing home student status is that it will probably be easier for them to get onto UK degrees. The universities will be so desperate for the 20k or 30k international student fees they'll end up paying each year, they'll bend over backwards to let them in. Especially if they can squeeze a foundation year out of them as well. It doesn't say much for the academic standards though.

I don't hold Spanish degrees in particularly high regard either. I've interviewed plenty of Spanish computer science graduates who simply can't prigram a computer. And met too many Filología Inglesa graduates who can't speak English. Also it is hard for young people to get work experience in Spain. The labour laws don't help either. They restrict most young people to working as unpaid interns, being passed all the "marrones" at work. What might be a better option for young people are the degree apprenticeship schemes that have appeared in the UK over the last few years. They allow students to gain work experience while studying part time, and they usually cover the fees as well.I'm not sure how easy it is to get on those though.


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

Chopera said:


> . What might be a better option for young people are the degree apprenticeship schemes that have appeared in the UK over the last few years. They allow students to gain work experience while studying part time, and they usually cover the fees as well.I'm not sure how easy it is to get on those though.


One of my nephews did one of those, with British Telecom (IT services not telecoms) and has done really well. The apprenticeship lasted for 3 years and he spent one week per month studying at their own purpose built college. He was paid 10.5k in his first year which increased each year subsequently, and of course accrued no student debt at all. He's now with his second employer after leaving BT.


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

Chopera said:


> OK, here comes my rant...
> 
> To be honest it's not that big a deal to me as I have quite a few doubts about the value in paying UK (or at least English) university fees these days anyway. I looked into British schools in Madrid and was unconvinced of their value for money as well. The British education system smells of operating as a cartel these days, trapping people into paying high fees because there is little alternative. Most 18 year olds are too young to really know what they want to do in life because they simply don't have the experience. They spend their formative years sweating over exams instead of discovering. And then they are expected to decide on studying one particular subject for the next 3 or 4 years of their lives, while taking on huge amounts of debt. Chances are they'll end up studying the wrong subject anyway, or one that quickly becomes obsolete. I've spent the last 20 years working as a web developer. When I appliued to uni the world wide web didn't even exist. The chances of the skills learnt in technical degrees staying relevant for long are small, the degree just ends up being a rubber stamp to prove you have demonstrated a certain level of competency. But with something like 20% of students getting firsts these days anyway, even the rubber stamp is losing value.
> 
> ...


I totally agree with the sentiment behind this, but remember that for some British kids in Spain, the chance of going to a UK Uni isn't "going back" to the UK system, it might be their first taste of living in the UK.
My kids wew both born in Spain and have only ever lived out of the UK and we were hoping that the chance to study in the UK at Uni might provide them with a chance to "find their roots", they will never get that chance with us, their parents, as we are not planning to return.
On one hand I'm pleased that for my elder son, this news seems to make this a possibility (unless he has to repeat years in secondary in Spain!), but for the younger,...we´d better start saving...


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## Chopera (Apr 22, 2013)

Overandout said:


> I totally agree with the sentiment behind this, but remember that for some British kids in Spain, the chance of going to a UK Uni isn't "going back" to the UK system, it might be their first taste of living in the UK.
> My kids wew both born in Spain and have only ever lived out of the UK and we were hoping that the chance to study in the UK at Uni might provide them with a chance to "find their roots", they will never get that chance with us, their parents, as we are not planning to return.
> On one hand I'm pleased that for my elder son, this news seems to make this a possibility (unless he has to repeat years in secondary in Spain!), but for the younger,...we´d better start saving...


Yes that's our situation as well. I'll just have to wait until nearer the time to make aa final decision I guess. BTW the recent changes to the education system in Spain (ley Celáa) are meant to make it harder for children to repeat a school year now.


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