# Racism - Bars in Dubai



## Andy Capp

I was out with a friend of mine the other day and we decided to go to longs for ladies night (Tuesday).

My friend is half hong kong and half english - i was allowed in she was refused, so i talked to the manager - an arab - he said that he as an arab would also not be allowed in and that longs was an english only bar really - the fact that the gorilla on the door is allowed carte blanche to let or not allow people in totally dependent on the colour of there skin is bang out of order.

So that's longs off my visit list now (not that I'll be missing anything!).

Have you been the victim of racial abuse here?


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## mrbig

Yes, by English that dislike Americans.


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## DGS

I'm in the process of moving over I'm English and my wife Singaporean Chinese ........ and as for the kids well .....

But seriously is this a problem ?
Coming from a well integrated multiracial society (Singapore), it isn't something we even considered when evaluating the move.


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## NYC_Native

I am an American of Asian Descent that just moved back from Dubai.

Occasionally that stuff happens. The worst part is that there is really no recourse for it. You don't like it, they don't care. I've been denied entrance to bars in the middle of Dubai summer for wearing flip flops but 'National Dress Sandals' are permitted. I fail to see the difference. 

Dubai is one of the most tiered societies in the world. Recently in the UAE there was a mall that wanted to ban laborers. Seriously... 

UAE Nationals and Arabs are at the top
Then UK ex-pats
Then conglomerate of Aussie/South Africian ex-pats
European ex-pats
American ex-pats - Not too many of us there

then Laborers - Mainly Indian/Pakistanis/Filipinos

If anyone tells you an Arab gets the same treatment as an Indian in Dubai they're lying...
Having said all that... it's no worse than any other place where you aren't local. 

my 2 cents


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## Sonya664

Missing a couple of tiers,,,,,,,,,,,,,

UAE Nationals - who own everything
Palestinians - run everything for the above
Lebonese
Expats
Laborers 

Question? how were you perceived as a expat of Asian decent? 
decently (educated) or a expat of the wrong sort?


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## NYC_Native

Well I 'look' Filipino though I am not.
I was born and raised in the US and have a doctorate.
Many times when alone I could sense people feeling as if they were superior to me,
until I opened my mouth and spoke English well. Then their attitudes changed.... And quickly at that.
I also worked directly for a sheikh (not like twelve levels down but pretty much he payed for my compensation) so that helped.
Dubai is a highly material and judgmental society. My advice- dress/act the part and learn Arabic.





Sonya664 said:


> Missing a couple of tiers,,,,,,,,,,,,,
> 
> UAE Nationals - who own everything
> Palestinians - run everything for the above
> Lebonese
> Expats
> Laborers
> 
> Question? how were you perceived as a expat of Asian decent?
> decently (educated) or a expat of the wrong sort?


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## bdb

NYC_Native said:


> Having said all that... it's no worse than any other place where you aren't local.


True, BUT usually its the citizens of a country that discriminate against foreigners, not the law of the country (at least not in Europe/US etc). Out here its the law that also discriminates.


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## Andy Capp

bdb said:


> True, BUT usually its the citizens of a country that discriminate against foreigners, not the law of the country (at least not in Europe/US etc). Out here its the law that also discriminates.


What's that got to do with a bouncer who's been told by his employers not to let (m)any women in who aren't caucasian.

Well, it's cos they can and no-one, no-one gives a flying fook about it.

Incidentally the Night Managers name - yes he did give it to me - is Medhat Handi Towers Rotana Dubai - 04 343 8000. But don't try to get in if you ain't white.

And this is coming from the whitest (I hate the sun) bloke in the UAE!


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## buddyab

mmm i don't know why all people thing that is the arab in the fornt in every thing in UAE 

i thing you are wrong 

iwill come with you all ( if arab in fornt why we must be in back and this is our country )

can any one tell me why forign people here in arab state have a good life here ?

i think arab better than other because we make the forign people here like us and they make arab people in Europ an US like a ****

if you want to know who is the best here try to connect with arab and see if arab here have a good life or not

bye


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## Andy Capp

Look buddy, I've got loads of local mates, we go to bars, have shisha, and talk rubbish just like i do with my western mates, to me there's no difference, apart from locals are somewhat more inhibited....


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## bdb

If a Brit with the same qualifications as an Indian (who might have even studied in Europe/US) makes 3 times as much as the Indian, then of course I think that the govt here practices racism!


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## Andy Capp

And thank you bdb for your very insightful comments about the racism that exists in the bars of the sandy city.

From what I have seen the most racist people here in general are Indians, as they are racist towards there own people based on caste etc.

However that is for another thread....


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## Brandon A

Caste discrimination is not racism! Caste and race are entirely distinct.


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## topcat83

Brandon A said:


> Caste discrimination is not racism! Caste and race are entirely distinct.


..but it's still discrimination...


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## Brandon A

it is. Much like the social class structure in the United Kingdom.


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## vincetruong

DGS said:


> I'm in the process of moving over I'm English and my wife Singaporean Chinese ........ and as for the kids well .....
> 
> But seriously is this a problem ?
> Coming from a well integrated multiracial society (Singapore), it isn't something we even considered when evaluating the move.


from personal experience, i wouldn't say it's a serious problem but she will always be better off when you're with her. she will likely feel a difference in how she's treated when she's alone.


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## bdb

Not everybody can make such great contributions to the topic at hand Andy


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## Timberwolf78

Brandon A said:


> Caste discrimination is not racism! Caste and race are entirely distinct.


I agree. I think it's ok to be discriminatory towards someone of your type, just because he is of a darker shade of the dark color. 
Racism is totally different.


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## Elphaba

Timberwolf78 said:


> I agree. I think it's ok to be discriminatory towards someone of your type, just because he is of a darker shade of the dark color.
> Racism is totally different.


You think that discrmination can be OK? :confused2:


I don't think it is ever acceptable. 

-


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## Loladada

NYC_Native said:


> Well I 'look' Filipino though I am not.
> 
> Dubai is a highly material and judgmental society. My advice- dress/act the part and learn Arabic.


I am Filipina from Canada married to a Caucasian. 

Here, (compared to Canada) I feel, to be treated with respect, I must be well dressed + designer bag + expensive jewelry at all times.

I also find I must speak authoritatively.

SAD, but that is just how it is. 

There are occasions when waiters do not listen to me attentively and do not pour my water as he does with my Caucasian companions.

My advice, when slighted or discriminated, accept and roll with the punches. It is too tiring otherwise. I believe anger, disappointments and all the negative emotions will show on my face, and no, I won't have that!


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## Elphaba

That's sad to hear lolodada, but you have to rememeber that the peoplewho treat you with less than respect are fools if they are judging people simply on the way they look. They should probably be pitied for being ignorant.

-


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## Timberwolf78

Elphaba said:


> You think that discrmination can be OK? :confused2:
> 
> 
> I don't think it is ever acceptable.
> 
> -


sar⋅casm  /ˈsɑrkæzəm/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [sahr-kaz-uhm] 

–noun 
1. harsh or bitter derision or irony. 
2. a sharply ironical taunt; sneering or cutting remark: a review full of sarcasms.


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## Elphaba

Timberwolf78 said:


> sar⋅casm  /ˈsɑrkæzəm/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [sahr-kaz-uhm]
> 
> –noun
> 1. harsh or bitter derision or irony.
> 2. a sharply ironical taunt; sneering or cutting remark: a review full of sarcasms.


It's not very clever when you have to signpost it. 

In fact that really wasn't sarcasm; just a desperately unfunny attempt at humour. 

It's not a suitable subject for attempted humour, especially in this thread.

:mod:

-


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## topcat83

Brandon A said:


> it is. Much like the social class structure in the United Kingdom.


...which many of us disagree with and fight against. 

I would also say that the present day British class system is nowhere near as strong as it was even 20 years ago. It is very possible to 'move between classes' now and not be judged because of your parents or school.


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## topcat83

Elphaba said:


> You think that discrmination can be OK? :confused2:
> 
> 
> I don't think it is ever acceptable.
> 
> -


Totally agree.

We all have prejudices, learned from out childhood, upbringing and experiences. What we need to do is recognise the ones we have, then try and make objective decisions that are not based on our prejudices. Only then can we stop discriminating.


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## topcat83

Timberwolf78 said:


> sar⋅casm  /ˈsɑrkæzəm/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [sahr-kaz-uhm]
> 
> –noun
> 1. harsh or bitter derision or irony.
> 2. a sharply ironical taunt; sneering or cutting remark: a review full of sarcasms.


Well I didn't get it, so it wasn't very sarcastic, was it

Remember sarcasm doesn't come over very well without a tone of voice to go with it.


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## Andy Capp

Anyway, back to the subject. A few years ago a mate of mine did an expose in that venerable newspaper of impeccable impartiality - Gulf news - about racism in the bars, longs, fibbers and waxy's came off the worst if i recall.

Just found it - over 3 years ago! gulfnews : Have your say: Racism in clubs?

Sad to say nothing has changed!

On the other hand, apart from Waxy's value for money Friday brunch, who would want to go to the places i mentioned above!


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## NYC_Native

Loladada said:


> I am Filipina from Canada married to a Caucasian.
> 
> Here, (compared to Canada) I feel, to be treated with respect, I must be well dressed + designer bag + expensive jewelry at all times.
> 
> I also find I must speak authoritatively.
> 
> SAD, but that is just how it is.
> 
> There are occasions when waiters do not listen to me attentively and do not pour my water as he does with my Caucasian companions.
> 
> My advice, when slighted or discriminated, accept and roll with the punches. It is too tiring otherwise. I believe anger, disappointments and all the negative emotions will show on my face, and no, I won't have that!


In my circumstances I didn't experience a ton of trouble. I was just offering an opinion to say that racism or the perception of it does exist. And not just at the bars but everywhere. I think a lot of people are enamored by Dubai, especially from the US/North America. For a short stay, yeah it's nice if you like gaudy over the top type stuff and shopping but really for me I was itching to leave. It's a big sandbox!! For me the cultural differences were too great. Rolling with the punches is great (I did it) but in a small way it's accepting that there is a problem and pretending it doesn't bother you. I enjoyed my stay but am happy that my time was up. I am just not the kind of person who wants to get decked out to go to the mall or spend an hour to look nice so I can grab a drink. That's just me.

But back on topic.
1. I think it's hilarious that no one has jumped on here to say 'No racism DOESN'T exist'!! 

2. The best accessory at a bar is an attractive woman or several attractive women. I've never had a problem getting into a bar with my friends or the girlfriend.


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## Brandon A

topcat83 said:


> ...which many of us disagree with and fight against.
> 
> I would also say that the present day British class system is nowhere near as strong as it was even 20 years ago. It is very possible to 'move between classes' now and not be judged because of your parents or school.


I bet the shift began in the 'Thatcher Era'


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## Sonya664

NYC Native & Loladada

I hear and understand what you have both said. I'm a brownie, born and bred in London with a white boyfriend.

I get questioned where I am from when in Dubai all the time, as I'm light skinned, it's not obvious where I'm from.
As soon I speak in a English accent, I get several backward glances in disbelieve! Unfortunately this is from western expats not Arabs, whom I feel are more accepting maybe via being educated in the western world, US, UK, etc

One thing that really gets me is that I cant wait to speak and set people right,,,,,,, 
A British accent probably has this effect in many parts of the world.

But, I feel so empty after. Like I'm making sure people know I'm from. It's depressing really.


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## Jynxgirl

I dont know about discrimination, but I have now been mistaken as a prostitute three times in the ? sixish weeks I have been here. I was wearing decent clothing, albeit once was here in my apartment complex where an africian man who seems me leave at four pm and come home at 7:30 am had been watching me a few days. The others, once I was at the airport and had someone casually ask me, another I was out running in the discovery gardens and was stopped by a uk genetleman. When I spoke and each found I was american, they were all taken back and immediatly apologised. I was in jeans and a blouse twice, and long work out pants and a tshirt the other. My response from the male american workers was that most of the blondes you see, if they are not married, are prostitutes. I guess i just have to roll with the punches, but this is going to get old. I will say that most people think I have had a breast job, to an abnormally large size, which I never have. Still, 3 times in six weeks just walking around, not even at a bar or club, is a bit crazy to me. 

I have yet to go 'out' as I do not have any friends here my age (coworkers are much older) but am a bit worried that I wont be discriminated against but run into this all the time if I go alone to places?


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## topcat83

Brandon A said:


> I bet the shift began in the 'Thatcher Era'


I think earlier than that. I'd say in the 1960's to 70's. My Grandmother was a very intelligent scullery maid in an Edwardian house, but her twin sons went on to be top engineers with Lucas Aerospace and Automotive. Means i can't trace my roots back to Royalty though


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## Gavtek

Jynxgirl said:


> I will say that most people think I have had a breast job, to an abnormally large size


Time to join the creepy PM sending bandwagon!


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## chunkykitty

Jynxgirl its not only Blonde girl do get this kind of ATTENTION, im from Kyrgyzia, and i do get this stuff all the time, no matter what i wear, where i go. i just. at first i burst in tears, later got angry, now i just laugh, and when they do keep asking my number , i give them land line, police number


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## Seven Seas

Don't let it get you down- we all make our own little assessemnts of what pepople are like, some of us have better skills at doing that than others.


We are constantly 'telling' others who we are, by what we wear, how we speak, how we walk, our posture.....

If some ignorant people need to have it spelt out for them- then they are too unobservant to see the other signals.


Chunky Kitty- They base their opinions on old setreotypes. Don't get upset about it.

As for bars- many bars have their own character, and their customers / management want to maintain this character. Yes, it is discriminatory. But bars don't do it just for racism. They do it for profits.

I am sure if there was a bar that advertised "We don't allow dirty *&^%s in here", (put in any nationality you like) it would be full every night. Maybe full of nasty racists, but full. Bars do that indirectly all the time.


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## topcat83

chunkykitty said:


> .... now i just laugh, and when they do keep asking my number , i give them land line, police number


LOL! I like your style....


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## Maz25

topcat83 said:


> LOL! I like your style....


Ha ha, couldn't agree more! Well, that's an idea next time I am harassed!!


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## Jynxgirl

I think I am going to program the police number in my phone, and try that next time... That is quite funny! I am going to list it under WORK


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## rsinner

Andy Capp said:


> I was out with a friend of mine the other day and we decided to go to longs for ladies night (Tuesday).
> 
> My friend is half hong kong and half english - i was allowed in she was refused, so i talked to the manager - an arab - he said that he as an arab would also not be allowed in and that longs was an english only bar really - the fact that the gorilla on the door is allowed carte blanche to let or not allow people in totally dependent on the colour of there skin is bang out of order.
> 
> So that's longs off my visit list now (not that I'll be missing anything!).
> 
> Have you been the victim of racial abuse here?


I have been to Long's Bar a couple of times and I am from a "nationality that stares" 
One reason I can think of why they didn't let your friend in is this: I work close to the place and usually walk down to/from the Metro Station. A number of days around 8-10 in the evening there are at least 5-6 well dressed Asian ladies (I think they were Chinese and Thai) "looking for drinks" and what not. And it is usually the Westerners who they think will buy them drinks (apparently I don't look rich enough even in my best suits  ) . So the guy at the door sees a white guy (assumption) + an asian looking lady (assumption), makes a sweeping assumption (generalisations suck, don't they) and decides your friend is not fit for the bar inside
Just my conjecture


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## Elphaba

I had to laugh at the phrase 'nationality that stares'  


-


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## Nomad80

Wait hold up - there's racism in Dubai? get outta town!


*Andy Capp* I've been turned away in a similar manner at Longs and Waxys etc while others are allowed with no problem. One learns to live with it because talking about it = pulling out the race card and frankly I try not to care enough to get too butthurt over delusional troglodytes


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## Andy Capp

Nomad80 said:


> Wait hold up - there's racism in Dubai? get outta town!
> 
> 
> *Andy Capp* I've been turned away in a similar manner at Longs and Waxys etc while others are allowed with no problem. One learns to live with it because talking about it = pulling out the race card and frankly* I try not to care enough to get too butthurt over delusional troglodyte*s


So you know the usual clientèle in those particular 2 establishments then.

Actually a while back I took a member of this forum (English/Pakistani girl) to Waxy's on a Friday after a particularly boozy bunch along with 4 others 2 x SA, 1 x UK and a Russian, she was let in no problem (well i did know the bouncer) but once inside did happen to notice that she was the only non-Caucasian in the place.


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## Roy_Boy

After only 9 days here I do get a sense that Far East Asians (and Asians overall) are not very much liked. I was talking to an Indian the other day who didn't say nice things about them (specifically Filipinos). I would not be suprised if "classy" places would have rules against allowing certain nationalities. Shame though, as these people are precisely the ones who are building our city.


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## Nomad80

Roy_Boy said:


> After only 9 days here I do get a sense that Fat East Asians (and Asians overall) are not very much liked




I blame mcdonalds


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## Roy_Boy

Nomad80 said:


> I blame mcdonalds
> 
> Good call. The gulf countries are the nations with the highest % of obese kids, according to the WHO.


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## Nomad80

dude fwiw I don't really believe that - I was just making a funny based on your typo (fa*T* asians


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## Roy_Boy

Nomad80 said:


> dude fwiw I don't really believe that - I was just making a funny based on your typo (fa*T* asians


I know you were joking. My statement is true though . I cannot post URL's yet so check out the website for the International Association for the Study of Obesity. They have some astounding data there.


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## Elphaba

Roy_Boy said:


> After only 9 days here I do get a sense that Far East Asians (and Asians overall) are not very much liked. I was talking to an Indian the other day who didn't say nice things about them (specifically Filipinos). I would not be suprised if "classy" places would have rules against allowing certain nationalities. Shame though, as these people are precisely the ones who are building our city.


Not very much liked by whom?? Most of us have no issue about where a person is from, but base our views on the behaviour of the individual. 

-


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## Felixtoo2

Roy is not a million miles away from the truth but with a few qualifications. 
I can`t imagine that many of us on here care too much where others are from as long as they are buying their share of the beer. However it is obvious to anyone just how differently our paymasters treat the Asian and other communities here in comparison to westerners. The pay structure is different dependant on creed and even the way medical centres behave towards you is decided by the colour of your skin.


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## SBP

Nomad80 said:


> I blame mcdonalds


Why do they have elastic bands on their arms restricting circulation?? They should be told that is bad for them


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## topman09

I don't think racism is the problem in Dubai, it's more about how wealthy you look. If an Indian man looked the part (wearing a rolex, dressed in designer clothing) and was next to an average dressed white English man, I think the Indian man will earn more respect. In my opinion, in Dubai you have to pay to play!


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## Andy Capp

topman09 said:


> I don't think racism is the problem in Dubai, it's more about how wealthy you look. If an Indian man looked the part (wearing a rolex, dressed in designer clothing) and was next to an average dressed white English man, I think the Indian man will earn more respect. In my opinion, in Dubai you have to pay to play!


Disagree. Sorry.


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## Nomad80

topman09 said:


> I don't think racism is the problem in Dubai, it's more about how wealthy you look. If an Indian man looked the part (wearing a rolex, dressed in designer clothing) and was next to an average dressed white English man, I think the Indian man will earn more respect. In my opinion, in Dubai you have to pay to play!



hahhahahaha

oh

you were being serious

...


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## topman09

I'm an asian guy and when i'm in Dubai I get well looked after..just depends on how you like to roll..


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## Nomad80

hey I guess you're right man - what with you posting from your satellite wifi on the only resurrected Concorde on the planet while on your way to Cancun


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## Andy Capp

Nomad80 said:


> hey I guess you're right man - what with you posting from your satellite wifi on the only resurrected Concorde on the planet while on your way to Cancun


I like Cancun! It's a bit Florida - but a great party town!

Senor Frogs - mental nights there!


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## Felixtoo2

Topman , have a think about what you have just posted and you will see that it is you that has just proved Andy and the majority of us correct in our assessment of the blatant racism here. 
Why? You have to dress up and roll like a PLAYA "Wit Da Rollie Ya Arm An YA Drinkin Chandon" just to get the same treatment someone more acustomed to wearing factor thirty, a swatch watch and having a pint.

To put it simply, you have to be rollin but they just stroll in. That my friend is racism and nobody here agrees with it!


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## Xpat

Yes Dubai is racist country and if you want to dig into the reason why you have to see the social imbalance of the city.

I recently consulted somebody in retail store and in that store at least 5 people drop by in a minute that means at least 300 ppl apprx in an hr- good traffic. In DUbai there is clearly schism in society. Here a race sticks to it's own race most of the time. Each race has it's own idiosyncrasies. After 2 weeks I could tell who was going to buy and who didnt and one of the factor determining that was - race. 

I made a script which has been tested in Canada, US which can qualify the customer and salesperson could know if the customer was serous or window shopping.

Westerns at least 80% of them when they stuck around showed their seriousness in buying and most bought , iranians dropped by every minute and out of 300 only 1 or 2 bought. 

Indians on the other hand were completely out of radar.... they stuck around for minutes at times half and hour, asked questions (one feature customer is interested), took the item and showed around the family (strategy used to make customer obligated to buy) and when time came to close the sale.... they just smiled....(I thought yeah another successful sale)..... they just left without saying thanks for our time!!!!!!!

First month I used one generic script for all the traffic without taking into account of race. Second month I tried something different and gave them script catered to specific race and BOOM sales increased by 30%. Is this racism .... maybe.

We as human beings implicitly pick things up just by the looks. When a race commits an action 80% of the time, we assume the remaining 20% is going to commit that action by default. This is how we are - we mak assumptions based on trends in our environment.


When Susan Boyle stood up on stage everybody assumed she was just "another pretender" "wannabe" etc... It all changed when she sang .... Both the audience and Boyle were right in their respective places. To make it more clear take this test - IAT, which tests subconcious bias

I have taken IAT (Implicit Association Test) which is 10-minute test. https://implicit.harvard.edu/implicit/demo/selectatest.html (take race or Black-white test) .You will be presented with words or images and asked to respond as quickly as possible (Quick because it tries to get what's in ur subconcious level.). At the end, your responses will be tallied so that you can see how your score compares to others and to your expectations .

I have been slight biased in my assessment , surprising a black friend of mine who took the test was biased to his OWN race. When I tried to delve into the reasons he answered "when u see a black man acting suspiciously with his hand in his pocket , my guards go up". He is picking up subconsciously if that black man wants to do harm as in his previous expereince.

Similarly these bouncers, waiters et al meet people on daily basis who lack social skills and then make assumptions based on looks...it is their way of qualifying customers and it's unfortunate that they assume others of same race will behave the same way.

Well it was long post as I love observing people and reading about social intelligence.


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## rsinner

Xpat said:


> Yes Dubai is racist country and if you want to dig into the reason why you have to see the social imbalance of the city.
> 
> I recently consulted somebody in retail store and in that store at least 5 people drop by in a minute that means at least 300 ppl apprx in an hr- good traffic. In DUbai there is clearly schism in society. Here a race sticks to it's own race most of the time. Each race has it's own idiosyncrasies. After 2 weeks I could tell who was going to buy and who didnt and one of the factor determining that was - race.
> 
> I made a script which has been tested in Canada, US which can qualify the customer and salesperson could know if the customer was serous or window shopping.
> 
> Westerns at least 80% of them when they stuck around showed their seriousness in buying and most bought , iranians dropped by every minute and out of 300 only 1 or 2 bought.
> 
> Indians on the other hand were completely out of radar.... they stuck around for minutes at times half and hour, asked questions (one feature customer is interested), took the item and showed around the family (strategy used to make customer obligated to buy) and when time came to close the sale.... they just smiled....(I thought yeah another successful sale)..... they just left without saying thanks for our time!!!!!!!
> 
> First month I used one generic script for all the traffic without taking into account of race. Second month I tried something different and gave them script catered to specific race and BOOM sales increased by 30%. Is this racism .... maybe.
> 
> We as human beings implicitly pick things up just by the looks. When a race commits an action 80% of the time, we assume the remaining 20% is going to commit that action by default. This is how we are - we mak assumptions based on trends in our environment.
> 
> 
> When Susan Boyle stood up on stage everybody assumed she was just "another pretender" "wannabe" etc... It all changed when she sang .... Both the audience and Boyle were right in their respective places. To make it more clear take this test - IAT, which tests subconcious bias
> 
> I have taken IAT (Implicit Association Test) which is 10-minute test. https://implicit.harvard.edu/implicit/demo/selectatest.html (take race or Black-white test) .You will be presented with words or images and asked to respond as quickly as possible (Quick because it tries to get what's in ur subconcious level.). At the end, your responses will be tallied so that you can see how your score compares to others and to your expectations .
> 
> I have been slight biased in my assessment , surprising a black friend of mine who took the test was biased to his OWN race. When I tried to delve into the reasons he answered "when u see a black man acting suspiciously with his hand in his pocket , my guards go up". He is picking up subconsciously if that black man wants to do harm as in his previous expereince.
> 
> Similarly these bouncers, waiters et al meet people on daily basis who lack social skills and then make assumptions based on looks...it is their way of qualifying customers and it's unfortunate that they assume others of same race will behave the same way.
> 
> Well it was long post as I love observing people and reading about social intelligence.


So Dubai is the only place where westerners, africans, asians etc all live together?
You are right in your analysis. 

Also, while the fact is that while racism exists in each and every country, surely it is extreme in Dubai and while your assessment is very accurate in explaining racism in general, it does not explain why it is in an extreme form in Dubai


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## rsinner

rsinner said:


> So Dubai is the only place where westerners, africans, asians etc all live together?
> You are right in your analysis.
> 
> Also, while the fact is that while racism exists in each and every country, surely it is extreme in Dubai and while your assessment is very accurate in explaining racism in general, it does not explain why it is in an extreme form in Dubai


My two cents - in other parts of the world racism is a dirty word and laws exist under which one can be punished (e.g. jobs cannot specify country etc while here they blatantly do; salaries cannot be different just because of different nationalities etc etc and companies can be sued)

Here in Dubai it is an acceptable form of behaviour and not punishable by law at least. So ppl and companies do whatever is the most convenient and easiest for them


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## Andy Capp

Interesting post Xpat...

So I did the test, and at the end there was no results shown on the "blood pressure" line?

Maybe i broke it!


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## topman09

ok you guys win, DUBAI IS RACIST! HOPE YOUR HAPPY...

any chance of anoyne telling me how business's are doing in dubai at the moment, are restaurants in particular still trading well?


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## Xpat

rsinner said:


> My two cents - in other parts of the world racism is a dirty word and laws exist under which one can be punished (e.g. jobs cannot specify country etc while here they blatantly do; salaries cannot be different just because of different nationalities etc etc and companies can be sued)
> 
> Here in Dubai it is an acceptable form of behaviour and not punishable by law at least. So ppl and companies do whatever is the most convenient and easiest for them


You stated main point

i, No anti-racism laws - ppl can swear and do anything they want and get away

ii, Social imbalance - I stated the reason in my previous post. In West you cant just get into or immigrate to any western countries, they qualify you according to education and money thus most ppl going there have much more capability to socialize than many laborers coming here. The skills, purchasing power and intelligence of Asians coming here are vastly different than those in West. 

iii, Integration - If you go to west , an indian family by second or third generation gets assimilated with the main culture. Thus they think , buy and look like an american. Here that integration is not possible due to segregation and the social imbalance continues form one generation to other

iv, Racism - There is difference between racism in West and here. In West it's more implicit as laws can prosecute them if found guilty. Here it's blatant - in your face. Having said that in West overtime people do accept other races , just compare any novels, newspapers written in 40s 60s and 80s , you will see a trend and writers being more careful to hurt certain race groups. West is actually progressing in fighting against racism due to continued awareness of the issue. That's how States has first black president and many Indian origin ministers , 300 yrs after signing Declaration of Independence.

On the other hand here it's like stagnant pond, there is no fighting of issue. If we continue this trend an Indian man wont be accepted into bar 300 yrs from now. Hell many ppl in Dubai dont even accept the fact there is racism here, as saying goes "Water is unknown to fish until it has found air".


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## Dubai 2106

Elphaba said:


> but you have to rememeber that the peoplewho treat you with less than respect are fools if they are judging people simply on the way they look. They should probably be pitied for being ignorant.
> 
> -


that's the main point and what would also solve the most people problems


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## Jynxgirl

As long as a person who has the similar education can be payed so extremely different, there is no getting rid of it. The western expats can afford more in a general term, and so the business say yes to the westerners...


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## topcat83

Xpat said:


> ..... Is this racism .... maybe.


...No, I'd say it was Culturalism. 

I think many of us could not care less if a person is from another race - but we feel more comfortable with people of our own culture. 

Also different cultures react to different situations in a different way. I don't think it's 'racist' to recognise that and change our own behaviour accordingly to fit the culture of the place we are in or the person we are communicating with.


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## topman09

Dubai is beautiful!


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## $ammy

Dubai is a racist place. Its funny I came across this thread after I had a little incident last Friday night trying to get into a club. Coincidentally, a few people had already addressed similar matters and it was interesting to read my own experience wriyttten through different people.
I reached a club in Dubai last weekend with my Fillipino colleague and we waited for our friends to arrive. Earlier that week i misunderstood a message from one of my friends thinking that the entry was free. However, the entry was only for couples and stags had to pay 100dhs. At the my fillipino friend and I were told to shell out 100 bucks but I told him that I was told it was free and that is how I waited out for my friend to arrive. As we were waiting several people came in and I noticed every one of them . Couples slipped in and so did several white skinned guys but again there were some guys who paid and some who didnt. Stags... who didnt pay and slipped in witha smile at the guy at the entrance. It was unfair treatment and it turned me off. My filipino friend just smiled and said "That's how it is, man!!". Considering that I had to leave early that night, I felt that 100bucks would have been a waste and that kept me out waiting for my friends to arrive but that incident totally put my mood off. 
Its sad. You cant complain to anyone and enforce anything.
And to think that the world honours men like Gandhi, Mandela and Martin Luther King; kids study about them at school only to face this in today's world especially ina place liek Dubai where several cultures reside.
Again, its very demotivating to see that white skinned people are paid more for teh very same work that you do. To be more accurate, if you had a passport from a country that is developing or underdeveloped your paid less. My colleagues of the same grade stay at upscale places affording the dubai lifestyle while i travel miles away at cheaper residences to pull through teh life here. And I'm sure there are many people who face this crisis. If i managed to get a passport from another country my payscale would be different but yet again I cant walk away from here like I did last friday can I? That is the sad truth.
So many people, especially western and european expats have voiced their views here. Anybody got any suggestions to put this to an end? to make things better???
With so much


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## Andy Capp

Stags - PMSL!


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## $ammy

Andy Capp said:


> Stags - PMSL!


Actually that's what they call singles who come to pubs!!!! That was the new word I learnt last Friday!!!


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## Andy Capp

$ammy said:


> Actually that's what they call singles who come to pubs!!!! That was the new word I learnt last Friday!!!


I'd never heard that one before, and I wasn't being disparaging to your post, i agree with a lot of it.

You see "Stags" in UK parlance are a bit different...


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## Guest

Andy Capp said:


> I'd never heard that one before, and I wasn't being disparaging to your post, i agree with a lot of it.
> 
> You see "Stags" in UK parlance are a bit different...


So what is it in the UK? In most of the rest of the world, it's slang for a single man. A bachelor party is commonly referred to a stag party. For women it's doe.


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## Andy Capp

Well, as we English invented the language we know what it really means....

And it's one of these....


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## pamela0810

Well Andy Capp, that's exactly what Sammy meant.
AC is a stag! lol


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