# Electricity costs?



## angil (Sep 24, 2012)

Hi,

Could some one please let me know what the average electricity bill should be for a family of 4 living in a 3 bed duplex in Benalmadena. No pool, not a huge area, no bizarre electrical appliances! Just your bog standard family with a telly, washer, a couple of computers etc.

Cheers.


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## thrax (Nov 13, 2008)

I have a 3 bed villa, with pool and PCs, TVs, tumble drier, washing machine (which seems to be on every waking minute), electric hob and oven, water pump but gas heated water. Our bill is around €125 - €150 a month. My parents, who have a 2 bed place, no pool but all of the rest pay around €80 a month.


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## angil (Sep 24, 2012)

Thank you for the reply.

Our first 2 month bill was €422 - the kids were home all day from school Summer hols, a/c going etc. 

(I don't have a tumble dryer or a dishwasher & like I said no pool. But everything is electric, no gas at all).

We thought Korea was expensive for utilities! So this bill came as a shock to us! 

Okay so after that kids now on limited a/c and lights out when they leave a room!!

In these next 2 months my kids have been at school. A/c on during the night in their rooms sometimes. Mine not at all. Hubby now on work rotation so a lot less laundry (&cleaning)!

& our bill is now €362 for 2 months. Not a tremendous drop considering we have made a conscious effort to watch our consumption.

I still think it seems a lot for 'leccy! Or am I just out of touch?

Thanks again.


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

Have you checked the meter readings yourself? Are they actual readings or estimated?

Turn everything off in house and see if the counter on your meter is still moving - it might be that others are using your power.

Why do you need a/c at this time of year? Try without it.


Are you cooking with electric (hob, oven etc.)?


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

angil said:


> Thank you for the reply.
> 
> Our first 2 month bill was €422 - the kids were home all day from school Summer hols, a/c going etc.
> 
> ...


We live in a large villa with pool and the usual appliances and we are all- electric. We never use aircon as the rooms are spacious and airy. There are two of us and we have the usual appliances.
Our bills are around €170 a month. We do not heat with electricity.
I think our bills are a bit steep but friends with similar properties pay the same.


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## angil (Sep 24, 2012)

According to the agent, we are renting through, these are readings not estimates.

My kids are used to sleeping with Asian a/c blasting cold and efficiently. The ones in their bedrooms look like something from the Ark (apparently they are from 2008!). Kids have now had reality check! No more a/c at all until they are actually hot. Not just assuming they may get a little warm during the night!

Electric oven and hob. Although I am more of a 're heater' than a 'cooker'!

This is probably going to sound dense but in an apt build in Spain where would I find my electric meter?!

Thanks again for any and all input and replies much appreciated.


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## zenkarma (Feb 15, 2013)

angil said:


> I still think it seems a lot for 'leccy! Or am I just out of touch?


Electricity in Spain is one of those things I consider to be a 'black art' — I just don't understand it, how it works or what the prices are based on.

I still can't figure out why an electricity bill for a flat that is only occupied at a maximum of 6-8 weeks of the year should have a monthly electricity bill that varies every single month.

Unfortunately you're going to have to roll your sleeves up and do some hard slog to figure out why your bills are so high. Prices seem to be based on Kw Tariffs, the higher your Kw Tariff, the higher your electricity price and standing charge will be. Kw Tariffs (from what I understand) are based on what your highest likely Kw load will draw. 

So the first thing you need to do is figure out what your highest likely Kw load would be so you can get yourself on the lowest Tariff.

I hope someone else can come along and clarify this because I'm just as confused about all this as everyone else is.


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

angil said:


> According to the agent, we are renting through, these are readings not estimates.
> 
> My kids are used to sleeping with Asian a/c blasting cold and efficiently. The ones in their bedrooms look like something from the Ark (apparently they are from 2008!). Kids have now had reality check! No more a/c at all until they are actually hot. Not just assuming they may get a little warm during the night!
> 
> ...



Alarm bells have started to ring!

From your comment, I assume that you have NOT seen the bills - in which case, don't pay them! I'm not saying that the agent is crooked but he MUST give you a copy of the bill. Once you have a bill, it will be obvious if it is estimated or not. You can also check the readings (once you find the meters).

In an apartment block, the meters will usually be in a communal area on the ground floor (or even outside). You should have access to this and should be able to identify your meter - certainly your agent will be able to show you.

Again, it's not uncommon for someone else to be using your power!


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## zenkarma (Feb 15, 2013)

angil said:


> AThis is probably going to sound dense but in an apt build in Spain where would I find my electric meter?!


In my apartment building all the meters are located in a room off the lobby area. The caretaker/handyman has keys to the room. You might have to contact the administrator of the managing agent or someone within the Comunidad to let you have access.

I'm sorry to say this but getting to the bottom of why your electricity bills are so high isn't going to be easy or fun! It's going to be very frustrating. 

I suspect they make it so difficult deliberately so they can get away with charging people such astronomic amounts of money.

At the end of the day getting your electricity bills down will be a combination of understanding why they're so high, getting yourself on the correct tariff with the right company and actually identifying what appliances are using the most electricity and when.

For example energy saving light bulbs, modern computers, LCD televisions etc really don't use large amounts of electricity — whereas A/C, heaters, ovens/hobs, kettles, washing machines, tumble driers etc do.

So getting kids to switch off lights etc won't make much difference at all if you're running A/C, tumble driers or washing machines for hours on end.


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## gus-lopez (Jan 4, 2010)

snikpoh said:


> Alarm bells have started to ring!
> 
> From your comment, I assume that you have NOT seen the bills - in which case, don't pay them! I'm not saying that the agent is crooked but he MUST give you a copy of the bill. Once you have a bill, it will be obvious if it is estimated or not. You can also check the readings (once you find the meters).
> 
> ...


You cannot have estimated bills anymore , they are illegal. If they cannot actually read the meter they can only charge for the rental/standing charges.

As from august the 1st Iberdrola have reduced the kw/hr rate & increased the standing charges, which is what the government want them to do. Increase the income regardless of use through the standing charges.

I concur, with snikpoh in that you shouldn't pay until you see the actual bill.


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## thrax (Nov 13, 2008)

The bill will still be in the landlord/owner's name but you have a legal right to see it. You also have the right to see any past bills you have not had copies of. Ask for copies and then, if they look a bit iffy (in other words falsified) you can take them to the electric company for verification. Be careful about not paying the bill. If you don't and the owner decides not to pay you will be cut off and it won't be easy getting reconnected.


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## angil (Sep 24, 2012)

I have the bills in front of me. The words 'real' and 'actual' (something similar anyway!) printed on the bill seem to imply that it isn't an estimate?
Never the less my rental agents are as dodgy as they come and this is coming from a woman who rented from a man called Gangster Jang for 5 years!!!
I can't help feeling we are being hoodwinked here and paying for someone else's electricity too!
& it makes me feel better making my kids switch the lights off! I was just talking about the 3 day week to a Spanish women today. Apparently the Spanish schools are on strike??
Anyway I am off to look for my meter!
If its not one thing its another! Hey ho! So much for the laid back quiet change I thought I would experience in Spain! At least it is warm!
(& huge thanks again for all of your help).


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Don't you need the landlord's permission before changing your potencia?


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

mrypg9 said:


> Don't you need the landlord's permission before changing your potencia?


Who ever owns the contract is the ONLY person who can discuss and alter anything to do with the electricity supply.

Interestingly, we had an estimated bill recently from Iberdrola - illegal or not!


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

snikpoh said:


> Who ever owns the contract is the ONLY person who can discuss and alter anything to do with the electricity supply.
> 
> Interestingly, we had an estimated bill recently from Iberdrola - illegal or not!


Which is in most cases the landlord, even if the account is billed directly to the tenant?


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

mrypg9 said:


> Which is in most cases the landlord, even if the account is billed directly to the tenant?


if it's billed in the tenant's name, then the tenant owns the contract

if, as in my case, it's in the landlord's name, the landlord owns it - even though the DD comes out of my account directly


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

I think we are talking semantics.

The contract owner is usually the landlord yet it's the tenants account that is debited. So all three of us are correct (Me, Mary and Lynn)


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## angil (Sep 24, 2012)

Our invoice is in someone else's name! Might be the landlords name! I actually don't know. As we deal with his rental agent only.

I was hoping one of you wise ('old') owls! could decipher this for me (see below). I received this from my rental agent last night. I am not sure whether it is her written English or perhaps its me! Either way I haven't got a clue what it actually means in relation to meter readings & electricity charges! She told me in a later email go to Endesa with my contract, which obviously I don't have, and they can explain the invoice to me. I unfortunately speak no Spanish & haven't got a clue wher the Endesa office is an as stated have no contract so I am guessing that would be an interesting visit all round?! 

Big thanks in advance (email from rental agent below):


This is the information received today from Endesa Company who has explained :


There has been an increase made by the Goverment called "Alza" from the 1st of August 2013.

0.009€ X 61 days of the invoice X 8.05Kw ( Contracted power) the result will be the difference of the increase.

If you wish more information you may access to internet directly " Alza de Gobierno Luz"

Endesa has mentioned since using Lectura Real, the counter can not be verify only with estimate which it is no more longer used.


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

It's very common in Spain to NEVER change the name on the contract.

One of the reasons for this is that to change the name requires a new boletin (electrical inspection to make sure current regulations are being met).

For example, when we bought a property some time ago, the electricity was in some ones name from back in the 1960's! No one knew where that person was now or even if they were still alive. I tried to change the contract to my name but was told that I needed a signed letter from the current contract owner - impossible.

So, the name of the supply may NOT be the current landlord.


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## gus-lopez (Jan 4, 2010)

angil;2160674
This is the information received today from Endesa Company who has explained :
There has been an increase made by the Goverment called "Alza" from the 1st of August 2013.
0.009€ X 61 days of the invoice X 8.05Kw ( Contracted power) the result will be the difference of the increase.
If you wish more information you may access to internet directly " Alza de Gobierno Luz"
Endesa has mentioned since using Lectura Real said:


> That's correct. They've increased the standing charge costs & reduced the charge for consumption.
> They'll be doing it again next year, no doubt.
> 
> Doesn't solve your high bill costs though ?


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

.... have you actually been given the facturas yet?


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## angil (Sep 24, 2012)

If facturas is the electricity bill then yes! 16th Aug - 16th Oct €362. 

Prior to that June - August bill was €422 which I paid (although I did ask if was an estimate because of the size). 

But like I said previously the kids were home all the time, a/c running. I was expecting our next bill to half of what we paid in the Summer.

The bill seems to be based on something other than my electricity consumption? I really can't understand it.


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## thrax (Nov 13, 2008)

Have you located the meter yet? Once you have, turn off the mains fuse and see if the meter is still registering...


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## angil (Sep 24, 2012)

I am guessing the meters are behind 2 big black locked doors in the small shared garden area. Has 'danger electricity' sign on one of them. Have tried to catch the fella who waters the plants and sweeps up (I don't know who else to nab), usually I am falling over him, and the one time I need him he goes missing! 
Can I ask another 'silly' question?! On my fuse box there are a few bigger switches (maybe 3) where I can clearly see "on". If I switch those ones to "off" will that cut off all the elec? & when I switch them back "on" will the elec magically come back on no problem?!
It will have to wait til Monday now. I am pretty sure man with hose and mop doesn't work on a Sat & Sun!


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

angil said:


> If facturas is the electricity bill then yes! 16th Aug - 16th Oct €362.
> 
> Prior to that June - August bill was €422 which I paid (although I did ask if was an estimate because of the size).
> 
> ...


If you've seen the bills (factura) then you will know if they are estimate s(estimado) or actual (actual or real) readings because it will say so on them!

It is unlikely that the meters will be behind locked doors (although possible) as the meter man (person who reads the meters) needs to be able to gain access without waiting for a janitor or whom ever.


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## angil (Sep 24, 2012)

I could see that it said real / actual so guessed it was claiming not to be an estimate. What I want to know is if the meter is faulty or am I on some sort of premium package! or also paying to run the apartment buildings elevator! The cost makes no sense!
& I even had my daughter come with me today to look for electricity meters, incase I was having a prelude to a senior moment! & we couldn't find anything that looked like a meter!
The search will continue after the weekend!


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## Tapas (Jul 13, 2012)

Maybe I am missing something, but shouldn't the bill have kW used on it? What is the number there?


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## herman1996 (Oct 26, 2013)

Very high bills!!!
Everything is electric at home. Our washing machine works every day, we have 2 fridge freezers, 2 water heaters, lightning in the garden till 1 AM (one lantern the whole night) 
I do not have AC!
The last bill August-September was 169,62€. 
December-January, using infrared heating was 328,83€


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## angil (Sep 24, 2012)

I think I have found another possibility where the meters could be (a box just outside the communal gate). Looks like you need one of those triangular plastic key thingys! I think I had one of those many moons ago when we last owned a house in the UK? It was such a long time ago I could be confused! Anyway, I am chomping at the bit to turn off the electric and see if the meter keeps on going! If it doesn't we have the worlds most expensive air conditioning unit & for next Summer it would be cheaper to go (or at least send my kids!) to the UK for the month Of August!

Thanks again one and all for your replies. Very insightful.

(& Herman1996 are those monthly bills or 2 monthly?).


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## kalohi (May 6, 2012)

At least around where we live it's the water meter that's outside in a box that uses a triangular plastic key thingy. But maybe yours is different?

I now live in a house (and our electric meter is outside next to the water meter), but previously I lived in four different apartments. In each of the apartment blocks the electric meters were in the space under the stairs in the entryway, in a type of closet or cupboard. I know that in at least one of the apartment blocks the cupboard was locked. I don't remember in the others. The administrator of the apartment block held the keys. 

Don't you speak to any of the neighbors in your block, someone who might be able to direct you to where the meters are? And how about the administrator - do you know who it is? They could definitely help you.

Just so you know, we also pay really high electric bills. In the summer we only run one A/C unit set at 25º and only about 6-8 hours a day. I've got our July/August bill in front of me and it was 155€. But we were away for the entire month of August so we consumed nothing that month. The part of our bill marked consumption comes to 100€. The rest is the standing fee and tax. So if we had consumed in August like we did in July our bill would have been 121€ more (100€ consumption plus 21%VAT) - in other words, 276€. I think that's a LOT considering how little we use the A/C. Winters are just as bad with occasional use of electric heating. Our Jan/Feb bill was 324€. In comparison our May/June bill was 124€ (no A/C, no heating used those months). 

Anyway, good luck finding your meter so you can see if someone is stealing from you or not. Let us know how it turns out!


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

Our box is also outside our gate and requires a triangular key. 

However, the box has a glass window so you should be able to see the reading. Unless, there are several meters in the box in which case you will have to work out which is yours.

Once you've identified your meter (and I do think it'll be in that box), take a reading and go and turn your main switch off inside your property. Now go back and check the meter again.


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## whitenoiz (Sep 18, 2012)

Almost certainly the high charges are directly due to the aircon system(s). They are the electrical equivalent of 'gas guzzlers'... Each unit uses approx approx 3KW when actively cooling and about 800 watts during idling. The thermostat settings (possibly set up on the unit remote control units) obviously set the rate at which active cooling and idling cycles occur. We have two such systems, a little older than yours. The living room thermostat control is set to 23C during the summer and I use it as little as possible. If the bedroom is really hot I switch the unit on about an hour before bedtime. Lightweight duvets or just sheets are the order of the day...
Electric water heaters use on average between 1.5 and 1.8Kw so these too can be expensive to run if left on all the time and hot water is continuously on demand; think about putting a time switch in the circuit, but make sure it can handle 2Kw. 
Spanish Washing Machines are generally cold fill only and use a 3Kw in built heater element to raise the temp of the water. I have found that a 30C economy wash is the most cost effective method of washing clothes.
Those highly decorative 50W halogen downlighters used in a lot of places are extremely inefficient... we have 7 of them in the bathroom and eight in the kitchen... 350w for bathroom lighting? 400w for kitchen lighting? In both cases a 5ft 80W fluorescent tube produces far more light for a fraction of the cost!
Electricity is expensive in Spain... moreso than in the UK and there are effectively two lots of taxation applied... You have an 8.05Kw supply contract... the standing charge is the only variable; the rate charged for the actual consumption is set by Government not by the supplier. The savings to be made by downgrading to a lower contracted rate is marginal and frankly not worth the aggro involved for the few centimos you would save. Plus if you downgrade too far you will find the ICP trips everything if it senses a current demand higher than that authorised. 
Now more than ever its becoming a case of turn everything OFF or pull the plug when not in use... and don't leave audio, TV systems, computers or monitors on standby... Pull it!


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## Sirtravelot (Jul 20, 2011)

herman1996 said:


> Very high bills!!!
> Everything is electric at home. Our washing machine works every day, we have 2 fridge freezers, 2 water heaters, lightning in the garden till 1 AM (one lantern the whole night)
> I do not have AC!
> The last bill August-September was 169,62€.
> December-January, using infrared heating was 328,83€



Where did you get the infrared heaters from?

And are they any good?


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## herman1996 (Oct 26, 2013)

Sirtravelot said:


> Where did you get the infrared heaters from?
> 
> And are they any good?


I will give you all the details within a few days. What I can tell you is that last winter I spent 67€ in a month to keep my detached house (120m2) cosy warm during the coldest months.
I can also tell you that I'm not prepared to cut down on comfort during the winter. I did not come to Spain to suffer a cold house during winter.


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## extranjero (Nov 16, 2012)

herman1996 said:


> Very high bills!!!
> Everything is electric at home. Our washing machine works every day, we have 2 fridge freezers, 2 water heaters, lightning in the garden till 1 AM (one lantern the whole night)
> I do not have AC!
> The last bill August-September was 169,62€.
> December-January, using infrared heating was 328,83€


what is your potency, 5.75kw?


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## herman1996 (Oct 26, 2013)

6,9Kw


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## herman1996 (Oct 26, 2013)

Hi,

The Kw price was from a year ago.

This is from our last invoice:25/07 - 20/09

potencia facturada *power*
6,9Kw x 8 días x 068461 €/KW día 3,78€
6,9 Kw x 49 días x 0,16149 €/Kw día 35,89€

Energía facturada día *day*
26,25 kwh x 0,213779 €/kwh 5,61€
160,75 kwh x 0,191739 €/kwh 30,82€

Energía facturada noche *night*
48,56 kwh x 0,080524 €/kwh 3,91
297,44 kwh x 0,79737 €/kwh 23,71


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## Tapas (Jul 13, 2012)

What is "potencia facturada power" from your bill? 

And why do you have two lines for day and two lines for a night?


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

Tapas said:


> What is "potencia facturada power" from your bill?
> 
> And why do you have two lines for day and two lines for a night?


The first is the amount you pay (on a daily basis) to receive a certain level of power - sort of a standing charge. The more power you contract for, the higher the charge.

The reason for two lines of each is perhaps because the price went up (or down - ha, ha!).


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## Tapas (Jul 13, 2012)

*snikpoh*, ehm, to receive "certain level of power" - interesting! Thanks for clarification!

For the "power" there is quite a big difference between 0.16 and 0.68. It isn't a price increase, is it? 

And what happens if your electrical stuff "eats" more than 6.9 kW in total? Won't it work or what?


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

Tapas said:


> *snikpoh*, ehm, to receive "certain level of power" - interesting! Thanks for clarification!
> 
> For the "power" there is quite a big difference between 0.16 and 0.68. It isn't a price increase, is it?


The law changed recently whereby the cost per unit used went down and the contract amount (standing charge) went up - if I remember correctly.


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## Tapas (Jul 13, 2012)

And what happens if your electrical stuff "eats" more than 6.9 kW in total? Won't it work or what?


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## kalohi (May 6, 2012)

Tapas said:


> *snikpoh*
> 
> And what happens if your electrical stuff "eats" more than 6.9 kW in total? Won't it work or what?


If you've contracted 6.9kW, then at any one time you can use no more than 6.9kW. If you try to use more your circuit breaker will jump and cut off the electric supply.


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## whitenoiz (Sep 18, 2012)

Tapas...

I think that should read 0.068 so the increase to 0.16 isn't all that great...

If your stuff eats more than the contracted rate the ICP will trip out all supplies to your property... always assuming there is one fitted. The ICP can only be reset when the current demand falls below that governed by the ICP.



> The reason for two lines of each is perhaps because the price went up (or down - ha, ha!).


Ha ha... but true! The standing charge increased on 1st August but the rate for actual consumption went down. Hence the two lines for each of the charges; 25/7 to31/ 7 and 1/8 to the end of that accounting period on 20/8


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## Tapas (Jul 13, 2012)

Maybe I am too pessimistic, but for me seems 6.9kW is quite low limit.

Let's say, air cond + water heater + washing machine + fridge + powerful PC + some lights at the same time


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## gus-lopez (Jan 4, 2010)

Tapas said:


> Maybe I am too pessimistic, but for me seems 6.9kW is quite low limit.
> 
> Let's say, air cond + water heater + washing machine + fridge + powerful PC + some lights at the same time


It is not like the UK where the standard supply used to be 80 A & is Now 100A , allowing you to draw up to 25kw. Here the bigger your supply incoming , the more you pay standing charge. Unless of course you haven't got an ICP fitted ,or it has been removed.


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## Tapas (Jul 13, 2012)

If I get it right, then I should either set up a higher standing charge payments (even if I use peak level not often) and pay a furtune for that or carefully watch my electical stuff, so that circuit breaker does not jump and cut off the electric supply. Hm.

*gus-lopez*, what do you mean by:



> Unless of course you haven't got an ICP fitted ,or it has been removed.


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## kalohi (May 6, 2012)

Tapas said:


> Maybe I am too pessimistic, but for me seems 6.9kW is quite low limit.
> 
> Let's say, air cond + water heater + washing machine + fridge + powerful PC + some lights at the same time


LOL, we only have 4.4kW contracted. Yes, it's low but it keeps us from overusing! We get by because we don't use much electric. We have gas hot water and a gas cook top. I run the washer with cold water. We only have one A/C unit. It's really only a problem in the winter. We can only run one heating element at a time - eg, if I want to use the hair dryer I have to turn off the space heater. But there's no problem running the fridge, the washing machine, one heating unit or A/C, several computers and/or TV's and the lights all at the same time.


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## whitenoiz (Sep 18, 2012)

*Tapas*..


> Maybe I am too pessimistic, but for me seems 6.9kW is quite low limit.


I agree up to a point but... to quote a worthy old engineering adage.. 'If it aint broke don't fix it...' in other words if the consumer isn't regularly suffering from ICP generated power trips, it really isn't worth the aggro and possible additional expense of trying to deal with an upgrade to a higher contracted potencia...

When we first moved here our supply was always tripping out; our builders supply was contracted at just 3.5kw. At Endesa's insistence we had some major rework done to our incoming supply lines, and an upgrade to cover changes in the law introduced in 2007. At the same time we upgraded via a new contract to a 9.2Kwh potencia and haven't had a trip problem since.

*Tapas*... By way of explanation... an ICP is a resettable circuit breaker originally designed to protect the incoming supply from excessive demands due to short circuits within the internal wiring in the property. It is used by the supplying companies however as a means of ensuring that consumers do not exceed the contracted rate of supply. The value of the ICP fitted is calculated to approximately match that of the contracted rate. Properties built after 2007 are required by law to have an ICP fitted. 


*Herman*...


> This is from our last invoice:25/07 - 20/09
> 
> potencia facturada power
> 6,9Kw x 8 días x 068461 €/KW día 3,78€
> ...


.

I am heavy on electric usage; my house tends to be active 24/7 keeping myself and the housepack of rescued animals comfortable, My figures for the same accounting period are significantly higher than yours! After a series of quite big bills I decided to severely limit the use of the aircon in line with my own advice suggested in a previous post... 
*The difference between your figures and mine demonstrate conclusively just how power hungry aircon units can be...* unfortunately the insulation properties of our little inland town house are absolutely crap, like an oven in Summer and a fridge in winter. 

Accounting period 8th July to 6th September...

Potencia... 9.2kw x 60x 0.081975 = 45.25€
Consumo.. 1,174 x 0.131542 = 154.43€
Impto. elec..................................= 10.20€
Alq. Equipos................................= 1.06€
IVA.............................................= 44.30€
Total 8/7/2013 to 6/9/2013............ = 255.94 Euros.

These figures do not reflect the rate changes that occurred on the 3rd August which I suspect will be used to amend the next bill which is due round about 6th November.

*gus lopez*


> Unless of course you haven't got an ICP fitted ,or it has been removed.


... and of course the supply companies have got that eventuality covered... If the average consumption over a single accounting period is calculated to be greater than the contracted rate supplementary charges are added to the bill at a much higher rate than the standard rate!


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## herman1996 (Oct 26, 2013)

Tapas said:


> Maybe I am too pessimistic, but for me seems 6.9kW is quite low limit.
> 
> Let's say, air cond + water heater + washing machine + fridge + powerful PC + some lights at the same time


Not at all.

I have an IPC 6,9Kw installed and till now it never went down. 
*I do not have A/C but I do have electric infrared heating*, washing mashine, 2 fridges (with freezer), 2 water heaters, cooker and oven, microwave, PC, lightning in the garden etc. etc. The truth is that not all electricity consumers work at the same time. The water heaters e.g. only work from 5 to 7 AM.


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## kalohi (May 6, 2012)

Tapas said:


> If I get it right, then I should either set up a higher standing charge payments (even if I use peak level not often) and pay a furtune for that or carefully watch my electical stuff, so that circuit breaker does not jump and cut off the electric supply. Hm.


It it jumps you simply turn one of your appliances off and flip it back up again. No biggie. 

The ICP is the correct name for what I am calling the circuit breaker. It's a device on your circuit breaker panel that controls your electric usage limit. Some people don't have one installed. But it is a requirement to have one.


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## Tapas (Jul 13, 2012)

*whitenoiz*, *kalohi*, thanks!


> If the average consumption over a single accounting period is calculated to be greater than the contracted rate supplementary charges are added to the bill at a much higher rate than the standard rate!


Sure, I am not willing to constantly cheat on the electrical company, but I feel this is quite unpleasant when you accidentaly exceed your kW, say, once a week for a a couple of hours and result is boom - all went into darkness.
Is there any contract to have, say, 6 kW and then extra rate applied if exceeded that (but not a cruel cut-off)?

Turning something off to prepare food on electrical oven or to use a hairdryer - sounds weird in 21st century


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## whitenoiz (Sep 18, 2012)

*Tapas*...They wont let you cheat! The thing is that if an ICP trips your power off simply switch off any in-use devices that you can do without temporarily, reset the ICP and power will be restored.
As for your suggestion of upgrading to a 6kwh supply and incurring extra charges if you go over that limit, that's just not possible.
Any requested change to the contracted rate represents an invitation to the supply company to inspect the current installation and an ICP matched to the newly contracted rate will be installed. You as the client, will also be required to make any changes to the wiring as required by changes in the law. These changes must be carried out at your expense. As I suggested earlier... If it ain't broke don't fix it...

Just as a matter of interest what is your contracted rate?


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## gus-lopez (Jan 4, 2010)

whitenoiz said:


> *gus lopez* ... and of course the supply companies have got that eventuality covered... If the average consumption over a single accounting period is calculated to be greater than the contracted rate supplementary charges are added to the bill at a much higher rate than the standard rate!


I have a 3KW supply. To go over the contracted rate I'd have to use in excess of 4392 KW/hrs. Doesn't bear thinking about : :lol: I currently average around 500 per 2 month billing period.

The new 'smart meters' have an inbuilt ICP & many people are having major problems with resetting on them.


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## Tapas (Jul 13, 2012)

*whitenoiz*, clear now.. So, I need to find an accomodation with a high power already possible. And pay quite a lot for it as looking at my current consumption and adding water heater, air cond in summer or infrared heater in winter will definitely require your's 9 kWh allowance 

I am not in Spain yet, just trying to find out all hidden costs beforehand, so that there is no unpleasant surprise afterwards


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## Sirtravelot (Jul 20, 2011)

herman1996 said:


> I will give you all the details within a few days. What I can tell you is that last winter I spent 67€ in a month to keep my detached house (120m2) cosy warm during the coldest months.
> I can also tell you that I'm not prepared to cut down on comfort during the winter. I did not come to Spain to suffer a cold house during winter.


Awesome. Looking forward to hearing more.


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## extranjero (Nov 16, 2012)

The contracted power power here is 3.3kw, only suitable for a holiday home. The most recently built houses have 5.75kw.Fed up with having to turn things off to boil a kettle, and unable to use my elecric radiators properly,I had the potencia increased to 5.75 kw, which is standard now. 3.3 is no longer allowed.I went about it the right way, boletin , changing to stronger cables etc, and it was expensive,but I know some people just had stronger fuses put in, which is illegal and dangerous.Apparently the new smart meters won't allow people to do this.


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## angil (Sep 24, 2012)

Okey dokey you lovely folks of expat forum Spain! I finally got access to my meter, which was indeed behind the 2 locked big black doors (the gardener had the key!).

Switched my appliances off & read the meter:

Today's reading 30/10 - 26016

Endesa reading 16/10 - 25659

That seems like a huge jump? Just me, 2 kids, no pool, no tumble dryer and being ultra careful after 2nd scary huge bill. 

So I ran upstairs switched all of my appliances back on, put the washer on and had another look at the meter. It wasn't moving! Looked at everyone else's meters and they weren't moving either. Digital readings. I am not sure when the reading jumps up, must be a bit like a taxi meter?

My potencia? is 8.05 KW and I have one of those ICP things. Neither of those pieces of info mean a thing to me!

So what do you think? Is a jump of 357 (units?) a lot in 2 weeks?

& what now? I have read some pretty grim reports about Endesa. & the landlords agent is fluctuating between aloof and unpleasant!

Would an electrician be able to confirm if I had a faulty meter / leaking appliances? (is that even possible?!) or if there was someone 'pinching' my leccy?!

Thanks a bunch in advance for any help or advice,


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

I would suggest that you turn off your power for at least an hour (if possible) at one of the busiest times - perhaps when everyone else is at home cooking.

Take the reading and then see what it is after an hour or so. Obviously, it shouldn't have moved. This is all that an electrician can do without checking all the cabling from the meter.

If you find that the reading has altered, then I would suggest getting an electrician in to 'remove' the extra cables coming from your meter.


I would say that 375 units IS a lot for just two weeks with you being ultra careful. We have a large property with electric everything (2 fridges, 2 freezers, hot water, a/c, electric oven and hob) and our two-monthly bill is around 300-400 euros on a supply of 5.75Kw.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

snikpoh said:


> I would suggest that you turn off your power for at least an hour (if possible) at one of the busiest times - perhaps when everyone else is at home cooking.
> 
> Take the reading and then see what it is after an hour or so. Obviously, it shouldn't have moved. This is all that an electrician can do without checking all the cabling from the meter.
> 
> ...


Same as ours, more or less. We have one big fridge/freezer and don't use a/c but run a pool pump several hours a day.
It's the case that electricity here is expensive. It was even more expensive in the Czech Republic. Poorer people used to burn all kinds of stuff to heat their houses....plastic bottles was a favourite, believe it or not, and the flithiest coal was commonly used. Our village used to experience smog....yes, smog! Most of you younger posters will have no idea what that is but it plagued London right up to the 1960s until a Clean Air Act came into force.


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## kalohi (May 6, 2012)

My electric bill (from Endesa by the way) just came in the mail today and I have it here in my hand. It's for our consumption between 27 Aug and 24 Oct. We used 626 kWh and the bill came to 133€. We have 4.4kW contracted. For a few weeks at the beginning of the billing period we probably used the A/C (just one unit) for a couple of hours a day. Otherwise we used no major electrical appliances except for the fridge and the washing machine (which I use 5-6 times a week with cold water). No electric water heater, hob, pool, clothes dryer, oven, hair dryer...none of that. Just the TV, router and laptops, and lights. 

So is 374 units a lot for 2 weeks? It would be for me. But all you'd have to do is run one A/C unit, or use your oven for a few hours every day and I think you would reach that consmption. 

I agree that you should turn _everything_ off (flip the circuit breaker) and sit and watch the meters for as long as it takes until some of them move. Yours shouldn't move at all.


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## whitenoiz (Sep 18, 2012)

Just ran a check on my last 2 monthly bill which includes a couple of weeks during which the aircon was in use... Your daily consumption is approx 25 units per 24 hour period. Mine checks out at 19.6. 
Chances are you will have to sit in front of your meter for quite a long time to see it notch up a single unit increase... 25 units per 24 hours is only one unit per hour (approx)!
As I said before, aircon is the electrical equivalent of a 'gas guzzzler, seconded by an electric water heater if its on all the time... Aircon works out at 3 units per hour during its active cooling cycle and around 1 unit per hour when idling, an immersion heater approx 1.5 units per hour when its actively heating the water. An electric oven although used only intermittently when combined with a gas hob, is also heavy on power... typically 2 units per hour when actively heating the oven. 
Given good power management arrangements for the remaining electrical items in the apartment, these are the only three major areas where savings can be made.


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## whitenoiz (Sep 18, 2012)

Just to add to my previous post, I have just checked my current meter reading and done the maths... 
The reading taken on the 6th. Sept was 44980, today its 45706; that's 726 units in 54 days or 13.4 units per day. This compared with the 19.6 daily rate of the previous 60 day accounting period is a dramatic decrease in the use of electricity. 
The only change I have made is that during this accounting period the aircon has not been used at all... kinda bears out what I was saying about the electrical equivalent of 'gas guzzling.' I might just think about adding a time switch for the water heater too.
Of course the other real killer is IVA or VAT... at 21% it adds quite a chunk of the bill...


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## kalohi (May 6, 2012)

Endesa came around one or two years ago and installed new meters in all the dwellings in our town and the surrounding towns. The new meters have a flashing red light that indicates that electricity is being consumed. The faster it flashes the more electricity that is being consumed. You wouldn't by chance have a meter like that, would you? Then it would be easy to see if you're using electricity.


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## angil (Sep 24, 2012)

I would love to be able to sit and watch my meter all day (switching appliances on and off to see what happens!) & I am not being sarcastic! I really would I want to get to the bottom of it! Unfortunately said gardener ('the man with the keys'!) is only here for an hour in the morning and then he disappears. I emailed the rental agent and kindly asked her again to 'investigate' and apparently she called Endesa, they said everything was fine but from her garbled instructions I think they want me to do what you all suggested, switch off the power and read the meter. The gardener will open the big black door for me tomorrow at 10am (not sure how long he will let me stand and stare and my meter? - lets see!).
Will it make any difference unplugging the electric water heater when not in use? Or shutting down computers?? Pulling out telly plugs etc?! Clutching at straws here! These last 2 weeks we haven't have the a/c on at all (my kids have been warned!) I don't know what else to cut back on! In fact come the winter I am guessing we will have to have some sort of heating sometimes? I thought it was nippy out last night! I am used to under floor heating with tiled floors. The bloomin floors here are like ice! 
Again huge thank you for taking time out to reply. Very much appreciated.


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## angil (Sep 24, 2012)

Hello Kalohi!

I think I do have a meter like that. I am pretty sure there were red lights (can't remember whether they were flashing or not!) I thought it meant the property was empty / meter was switched off. When I went back to check the meter AFTER I switched my electric back on (& put a load of washing in) my red light wasn't on (wasn't on before either)! I would have noticed that. Maybe it takes a while to 'warm up'?! I don't know!! Will watch for those flashing lights tomorrow. Thanks so much.


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## kalohi (May 6, 2012)

The light flashes pretty fast so it's not like you can miss it. I look around my neighborhood and it looks like Christmas-time with all the twinkling lights next to everyone's door. 

I'm pretty sure the red light doesn't flash (it stays on all the time) when the property is empty. 

I can't imagine that the meter would need time to warm up and start flashing.


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## gus-lopez (Jan 4, 2010)

whitenoiz said:


> Of course the other real killer is IVA or VAT... at 21% it adds quite a chunk of the bill...


You forgot to mention the 4,8% 'electricity tax ' that is added to the bill BEFORE we get to adding IVA ! 
Tax on tax. Love it , they are all at it!


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## angil (Sep 24, 2012)

I definitely wasn't flashing! & I am pretty sure the red lights I saw were static. Will have to wait until tomorrow now for the gardener / keeper of the keys! & I thought my 15 year Korean adventure was surreal! I am sure I will look back at this and laugh?!


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## olivefarmer (Oct 16, 2012)

yes powering down computers will save electric, even if they are on "standby". The same with TV's left on standby. 

There are quite a few appliances that use phantom power even when not on. A few examples: mains powered PC speakers that have a transformer. Phone charger left plugged in but not connected to phone. Not a lot but it all mounts up over a year.

One thing you might try is turning your fridge/freezer thermostat down a bit(i.e. it doesn't need to be so cold inside the appliance) in winter months especially if it is in an unheated part of the house.

At the end of the day as folk have said the standing charges, IVA and essential use mean you still get large bills.


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## whitenoiz (Sep 18, 2012)

*olive farmer* I was going to say the same thing myself... but publish and be damned; having written it I'm going to post it anyway!

*gus*... so very true!

*angil*... if your box has the normal triangular shaped lock you might be able to buy a key from your local ferretaria or hardware shop. This will relieve you of the problem of having to seek out your gardener. If not have a word with a friendly local leccy about getting hold of one. they should only cost a few pence. 
Pulling the plugs on not in use equipment is always a good idea, especially stuff which normally turns off with a remote control like your TV. In the UK of course we use switched wall sockets which appear not to be in use or available here.
On practical matters...Cold last night... yes it was we had our first frost overnight (we are at 900 metres elevation)... taking the housepack out for their midnight walk involved the use of a winter weight jacket for the first time since March.
Tiled floors... again cold and they tend to reflect the colder temps found at floor level. Visit a local Chinese bazaar and see if they have any scatter rugs you can use. Lidl have them in stock sometimes as well. I have to be careful about using them because my dogs treat them as emergency overnight pee-pads.
Heating during the winter can be an expensive problem. We have a log burner but because we have nowhere to store logs in bulk we are limited to buying them pre cut from commercial suppliers at a somewhat higher price than we would pay for bulk deliveries. Last winter I closed off the fireplace in the living room where the log burner is located and relied on an 11 finned oil filled radiator set on its 1Kw setting and its on/off control set to a mid point. 
Your aircon may or may not have a heating element built in allowing its use as a fan heater... if you set the thermostat or remote to a sensible 25C its not too expensive to run. 
I use a couple of wall mounted flat panel heaters in the bedrooms. These are rated at 700W each and are not thermostatically controlled; they are either switched on or off. During the winter I turn these on a couple of hours before bedtime. Again time switches could be an idea... 
I also use a winterweight duvet (15 tog) and have a (mock) sheepskin mattress cover and leccy blanket to stop the cold permeating up from the tiled floor in the bedrooms. Also... use King size duvets on a normal size double bed... the additional overhang ensures that you are both in with a chance if one or other partner is a persistent duvet hogger! A friend of mine who lived in Dorset used to use two duvets after she was widowed; she used two king size duvets one she slept _on_, the other she slept _under_. The overhangs used cling together keeping out any draughts...


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## angil (Sep 24, 2012)

The doors are firmly locked with your 'normal' Yale lock by the looks of things! I wonder how everyone else managers they can't all go via the elusive gardener!
We are now onto the bare essentials and still have only dropped our daily consumption from 31 to 25 units! Hey ho! What can you do?! We are here now! I'll have to just pay the bills and have done with it!
A log burner sounds cozy (is that for outdoors?). Not sure what my little Korean street dog will make of a real fire! The palm trees rustling last night scared the beejeebers out of her! Lots of new experiences for the whole family!! I have read about oil filled or gel filled radiators that stay hot after they are unplugged? I will check out Leroy Merlin when hubby gets home.
I had my cardigan on today, while all around me were walking around in vests and shorts & still folks in the sea!! I suppose chilly is all perspective?!


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

angil said:


> I would love to be able to sit and watch my meter all day (switching appliances on and off to see what happens!) & I am not being sarcastic! I really would I want to get to the bottom of it! Unfortunately said gardener ('the man with the keys'!) is only here for an hour in the morning and then he disappears. I emailed the rental agent and kindly asked her again to 'investigate' and apparently she called Endesa, they said everything was fine but from her garbled instructions I think they want me to do what you all suggested, switch off the power and read the meter. The gardener will open the big black door for me tomorrow at 10am (not sure how long he will let me stand and stare and my meter? - lets see!).
> Will it make any difference unplugging the electric water heater when not in use? Or shutting down computers?? Pulling out telly plugs etc?! Clutching at straws here! These last 2 weeks we haven't have the a/c on at all (my kids have been warned!) I don't know what else to cut back on! In fact come the winter I am guessing we will have to have some sort of heating sometimes? I thought it was nippy out last night! I am used to under floor heating with tiled floors. The bloomin floors here are like ice!
> Again huge thank you for taking time out to reply. Very much appreciated.



As stated previously, the only true test is to turn OFF the main switch in your 'consumer/fuse box' within your property.

The meter should then be completely silent - no flashing and no increase in numbers!


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