# Greetings! (and some guidance reqd!)



## Brewerydave (Nov 28, 2012)

Hi all,

First post, and have been scouring these forums for a while now - all very usefull stuff, but doesn't it all get confusing!!! Information overload!

Anyway - by way of introduction, I am a soon to retire Cop and also own a Brewery - hence the name!!!

Missus and I live full time in a large American Fifth Wheel (like a mobile home), having given up the house a year ago in anticipation of moving abroad.
Initially we were going to tour Europe, but have changed our mind after a couple of 'recce' visits to Spain, and have decided to sort of move out......

I say 'sort of' - as thats where I need your advice!
This is what we plan to do - combined with a few questions for all you experts out there!

Drive the unit out, and site it on a campsite where we can have a 'permanent' pitch - paying for it yearly. That part is sorted! (Costa Blanca)

We will retain a 'care of' UK address (parents probably!). That way we remain full UK residents and will benefit from the NHS and our local GP etc. should the need arise!
At this time, not considering residency, but will want to 'live' in Spain for the foreseeable future - so will get an NIE number.

Hopefully, (and this is where you come in!) that will enable us to purchase and insure a Spanish reg. car and maybe a scooter to run around in/on.

Will we need a Spanish licence - or is the UK DVLA licence OK ? Also - whilst I have a bike licence, the missus doesn't - can she still ride a scooter - 125cc or whatever?

Have looked at private health insurance - best to sort that here or with a Spanish company?

Banking - my pension will go into my UK bank. However, will want a Spanish bank account. An advert in the euro-weekly news for Currencies Direct and their link with La Caixa caught my eye - any knowledge or thoughts on that? I'll simply want my pension transferred into a euro account each month, and be able to transfer lump sums occasionaly for rent/car/insurance etc. Thought that would be simple as I bank with Santander UK - but oh no!!!


Sorry for such a long post, but having scoured the FAQ's I cant find everything !!!

Hope you can help me getting started!!!!

Dave & Jackie:clap2:


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Brewerydave said:


> Hi all,
> 
> First post, and have been scouring these forums for a while now - all very usefull stuff, but doesn't it all get confusing!!! Information overload!
> 
> ...


:welcome:

one major flaw in the plan............

if you are living here you are _required _to register as resident within/at/after 90 days - it's not a choice, or something to 'consider' - you have to do it

so as a non-resident of the UK you would be 'illegally' using the NHS.... except as a holidaymaker with an EHIC

as for the rest - you're better off with Spanish private healthcare - but as you have been paying NI in the UK you should qualify for S1s from the DWP which means the UK will pay for you to access state healthcare for up to 2 years

I'm guessing you won't be getting a state pension yet? just the police one? If you get a state pension then again, S1s will take care of the healthcare - but forever

cars etc I'll let someone else answer....but your UK licence is fine until it expires


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## 90199 (Mar 21, 2010)

I have a U.K. Govt. pension. I let it accumulate in the U.K. and then transfer it when the exchange rates are in my favour to a Caixa account here.

I transfer by using a London Firm called Smart Currency Exchange, if the amount is over 3000 GBP's they don't charge commission and Caixa do not charge for the transfer.


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## Brewerydave (Nov 28, 2012)

xabiachica said:


> :welcome:
> 
> one major flaw in the plan............
> 
> ...


Interesting.
No state pension, just my Police pension (am only 47!!!)
Don't know yet if we will relocate permanently - if we did we'd buy a villa and get residency. For the time being, just want to live in the 'mobile' home sited,and not burn our bridges. I understood that I could get an NIE and sign on the Padron, and live as a non-resident - is this wrong??? This I thought this would allow me banking and vehicle purchase etc. I would remain 'resident' in the UK and as we would fly home every few months to visit family/kids etc assumed we would almost be on a 'very very long holiday' in Spain!!! (....for now)


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Brewerydave said:


> Interesting.
> No state pension, just my Police pension (am only 47!!!)
> Don't know yet if we will relocate permanently - if we did we'd buy a villa and get residency. For the time being, just want to live in the 'mobile' home sited,and not burn our bridges. I understood that I could get an NIE and sign on the Padron, and live as a non-resident - is this wrong??? This I thought this would allow me banking and vehicle purchase etc. I would remain 'resident' in the UK and as we would fly home every few months to visit family/kids etc assumed we would almost be on a 'very very long holiday' in Spain!!! (....for now)


You'd have to fly back every 90 days to be able to live in Spain legally as a non resident. Healthcare would then only be emergency cover in Spain via the EHIC. If you stay longer than 90 days, you MUST become a resident and that involves proving you have healthcare and income. You can only sign on the padron if you have residency and you can only get a temporary NIE number

Jo xxx


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Brewerydave said:


> Interesting.
> No state pension, just my Police pension (am only 47!!!)
> Don't know yet if we will relocate permanently - if we did we'd buy a villa and get residency. For the time being, just want to live in the 'mobile' home sited,and not burn our bridges. I understood that I could get an NIE and sign on the Padron, and live as a non-resident - is this wrong??? This I thought this would allow me banking and vehicle purchase etc. I would remain 'resident' in the UK and as we would fly home every few months to visit family/kids etc assumed we would almost be on a 'very very long holiday' in Spain!!! (....for now)


no......... unless you are never here for more than 90 days at a time you *will be resident in Spain - *& therefore not resident in the UK

you can't live here as a 'non-resident' - where did you get that info from btw?

& you only sign on the padrón if you're resident - not if you're a frequent visitor

non-residents can get NIE numbers (essentially for the purchase or inheritance of property) - but the certificate expires after 3 months - if you then need to renew it they'll ask questions & expect you to register as resident


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## 90199 (Mar 21, 2010)

Obtaining Spanish residency would for you be a painless process, you should seriously consider it. It is just Spanish bureaucracy and should not affect you U.K. residency. I had both for more years than I care to remember and only gave up my U.K. residency to obtain free health care when I attained the age of 65.


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## Brewerydave (Nov 28, 2012)

...I think I have done so much web surfing, and tried to research so many things - I have got myself a tad confused!!!

I guess it will be residency then!
I'm sure I read somewhere about non-resident staus, but having an NIE to operate a bank account and buy and insure a vehicle etc.
Will that affect the tax and NI paid on my UK Police pension??? If I'm still paying that - surely I'm entitled to UK health care when in the UK? (...or am I missing the point?)
We will be able to show income and non-reliance on state benefits etc to the Spanish authorities, and will also ensure we have medical insurance.


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

Hepa said:


> Obtaining Spanish residency would for you be a painless process, you should seriously consider it. It is just Spanish bureaucracy and should not affect you U.K. residency. I had both for more years than I care to remember and only gave up my U.K. residency to obtain free health care when I attained the age of 65.



I did not know that one could hold dual residency.

I was told that, legally, once we were resident in Spain, our access to the UK NHS would cease (although, in practice, I know one can lie and still get some cover).


Are you perhaps confusing residency, citizenship and domicile?


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Brewerydave said:


> ...I think I have done so much web surfing, and tried to research so many things - I have got myself a tad confused!!!
> 
> I guess it will be residency then!
> I'm sure I read somewhere about non-resident staus, but having an NIE to operate a bank account and buy and insure a vehicle etc.
> ...


that's the trouble with websites - info is often wrong or out of date - we pride ourself on this forum that we are as up to date & accurate as possible 

you won't need medical insurance, as I said, because you can get S1s from the DWP which means that the UK will pay your healthcare here for up to 2 years - after that you will need it though (unless the law changes)

healthcare in the UK is residence based -nothing to do with paying tax or anything there - so no, you won't be entitled to anything but emergency care as a visitor

yes, non-residents can get a NIE to operate a bank account & buy a vehicle - but recently they started issuing only temporary certificates to non-residents so that they can open a bank account, buy a property or vehicle etc. - the number itself doesn't change - but the inference is that if you then need to show the certificate after 3 months you are quite likely resident............ unless you can prove otherwise

tax is a whole other issue - but if you live here you need to do tax returns here - but any tax already paid in the UK is taken off any you might owe in Spain - some even get tax rebates!


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## 90199 (Mar 21, 2010)

Your Police pension will not be subject to Spanish taxation, it is a Government pension and because of this is taxed in the U.K. You will not pay N.I. contributions on your police pension. It would be wise however to contact the DWP and get a forecast for your O.A.P., you might have to consider paying voluntary N.I. contributions for a year or two if you have not yet fulfilled the criteria.

Regarding residency: I used to reside here in the Canary Islands from Mid November until early April, I then returned to my English home for the rest of the year. Because of the time spent in Spain, over 90 days, I took out Residencia. I did not relinquish my English residents status, because I resided there from April until mid November, a period of around 216 days.

I therefore fulfilled the Spanish 90 days requirement, and accepted the reduced ferry and air fares.


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## MrSam (Jul 31, 2012)

Brewerydave said:


> Hi all,
> 
> First post, and have been scouring these forums for a while now - all very usefull stuff, but doesn't it all get confusing!!! Information overload!
> 
> Anyway - by way of introduction, I am a soon to retire Cop and also own a Brewery - hence the name!!!


Nobody has asked the most glaringly obvious question: If you own a brewery, why don't you just park up the Fifth Wheel right next door? Why do you need to go anywhere else? Seems fairly obvious to me.


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## gus-lopez (Jan 4, 2010)

Now I know why I left !


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## Brewerydave (Nov 28, 2012)

MrSam said:


> Nobody has asked the most glaringly obvious question: If you own a brewery, why don't you just park up the Fifth Wheel right next door? Why do you need to go anywhere else? Seems fairly obvious to me.


LOL How about 'cos its cold wet and miserable in the UK and I'm sick of it!!!!
Anyway - beer is cheaper in Spain:tongue1:


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Brewerydave said:


> LOL How about 'cos its cold wet and miserable in the UK and I'm sick of it!!!!
> Anyway - beer is cheaper in Spain:tongue1:


 Its cold, wet and miserable in Spain alot of the winter, in fact the weather we've just seen in the UK is a milder version of what they've recently had in Spain - but yes the beer is cheaper tho!!

Jo xxx


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Brewerydave said:


> Hi all,
> 
> First post, and have been scouring these forums for a while now - all very usefull stuff, but doesn't it all get confusing!!! Information overload!
> 
> ...


Oh dear, another one of those who want to cheat the system. Forget it, either do things legally or not at all. You would probably be one of the first to complain if somebody asked you how to cheat in UK so why try to do it here?


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## Brewerydave (Nov 28, 2012)

baldilocks said:


> Oh dear, another one of those who want to cheat the system. Forget it, either do things legally or not at all. You would probably be one of the first to complain if somebody asked you how to cheat in UK so why try to do it here?


As a 'newbie' I am on here for advice and guidance. I believe thats what these forums are about - not for accusing me of trying the 'cheat' the system. If you'd read my subsequent replies you will see that I was obviously wrong in my initial assumptions and stated I would therefore get residency.
I want to do things legitimately - thats why I asked the questions
I'll take your apology as read


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## thrax (Nov 13, 2008)

Now don't worry about Baldi, he is our very own Mr Meldrew, but a much nicer version. Residency is your only option if you plan on living here for more than 90 days and want to do things properly. You should note that many banks, when an account is opened with a non-resident NIE, block the account when the NIE certificate expires. I know this to be the case because it is what happened to us and we had applied for a residency not a temporary one but we ticked the wrong box on the form. Three months in Spain, an 8 month old baby and no access to our money wasn't too much fun. Obviously all sorted now.

One question I have for anyone who might know, I have a governement pension and currently it is taxed in UK. However, I was told by an English gestor that I can have it paid directly here without being taxed in UK and it still won't be taxed here as the Spanish do not tax government pensions. Anybody know if this is indeed the case?


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## 90199 (Mar 21, 2010)

Thrax, if you asked the HMRC in the U.K. they would tell you that a Government Pension will be taxed in the U.K. However O.A.P. can become Spanish income for purposes of taxation, and will probably not be taxed if you are under the Spanish threshold.

I have just been down this road this year, my pension is taxed at source, I have obtained a tax rebate on my O.A.P. and I now declare this income in Spain.

The Gestor appears to be wrong.


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## Chica22 (Feb 26, 2010)

thrax said:


> Now don't worry about Baldi, he is our very own Mr Meldrew, but a much nicer version. Residency is your only option if you plan on living here for more than 90 days and want to do things properly. You should note that many banks, when an account is opened with a non-resident NIE, block the account when the NIE certificate expires. I know this to be the case because it is what happened to us and we had applied for a residency not a temporary one but we ticked the wrong box on the form. Three months in Spain, an 8 month old baby and no access to our money wasn't too much fun. Obviously all sorted now.
> 
> One question I have for anyone who might know, I have a governement pension and currently it is taxed in UK. However, I was told by an English gestor that I can have it paid directly here without being taxed in UK and it still won't be taxed here as the Spanish do not tax government pensions. Anybody know if this is indeed the case?


We have just been through the process of having a Government Pension paid directly here. The Government pension has to be taxed in the UK, *unless you are a Spanish [/B]National (which OH is). Believe me, they do want to tax this at the Spanish Tax Office. Unfortunately he will be worse off when he receives his state pension, as both will be taxed here in Spain, whereas if he was British he could get a UK allowance for his Government Pension and the Spanish Allowance for his state pension!!*


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## Zena143 (Nov 28, 2009)

xabiachica said:


> no......... unless you are never here for more than 90 days at a time you *will be resident in Spain - *& therefore not resident in the UK
> 
> you can't live here as a 'non-resident' - where did you get that info from btw?
> 
> ...


I notice Xabiachica that you live in Javia, I have a place in Fuengirola and earlier this year went on a Lloyds Bank Seminar where it was put forward to an audience of expats (numbering over 30) that it was legal, as non residents but property owners, to sign on the padron. 

A lot of us present said we did not believe this as it would entitle us to 30% off our council taxes (catastral, cars, etc) and so leave us open to fraud - in the end the Lawyers who were conducting the seminar, brought in from the Town Hall (adjacent to our hall) a lady who dealt with 'extrajeneros' and she stated that the town hall welcomed non residents signing up as this reflected the amounts of money we were paying into the system owning property and should be recognised. So here - at least - in Fuengirola we can join the padron although we are non resident. Always best to check with the town hall if they have a Foreign Residents Department.

I also, very recently (September), bought a car for when I am here, and to do this, I had to provide proof of ownership of property and obtain an A4 sized form from my local Police showing my NIE number and stating - words to the effect - that I had been given permission to buy a car for the purposes of holidays in Spain. Oh and since I had downloaded the money from a cash in the wall, a banking printout /statement (off the internet - bank in Engand) of these money withdrawals as proof of legitimacy under the new 2,500 euro cash rule 

This form was only for three months and I was told I could never obtain another one, so I guess hubby will have to step up if we buy a replacement car and things are still the same. However, being Spain nothing ever stays the same, which is half the excitement of coming here. 

Zena 143


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Zena143 said:


> I notice Xabiachica that you live in Javia, I have a place in Fuengirola and earlier this year went on a Lloyds Bank Seminar where it was put forward to an audience of expats (numbering over 30) that it was legal, as non residents but property owners, to sign on the padron.
> 
> A lot of us present said we did not believe this as it would entitle us to 30% off our council taxes (catastral, cars, etc) and so leave us open to fraud - in the end the Lawyers who were conducting the seminar, brought in from the Town Hall (adjacent to our hall) a lady who dealt with 'extrajeneros' and she stated that the town hall welcomed non residents signing up as this reflected the amounts of money we were paying into the system owning property and should be recognised. So here - at least - in Fuengirola we can join the padron although we are non resident. Always best to check with the town hall if they have a Foreign Residents Department.
> 
> ...


funny this should come up

there's a discussion on our local fb group about this atm

the mayor has actually posted that non-residents can register on the padrón (of course they want the money!!) - even though the national govt websites state that only RESIDENTS can............. he has (just) stopped short of saying that they *should*

I have heard of someone who was non-resident who had registered on the padron who had all sorts of problems when they did eventually become resident - when they went to import their care from the UK the fact that they had been on the padron for years meant, as far as the tax dept was concerned, they should pay massive import tax

they managed to prove otherwise - but it wasn't easy


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## RichTUK (Oct 15, 2012)

Plus it's always wise to register at the local office as a resident once you have your NIE if you plan on being here a long time as it means the population of the area will go up and regional budgets will go up   in theory


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

RichTUK said:


> Plus it's always wise to register at the local office as a resident once you have your NIE if you plan on being here a long time as it means the population of the area will go up and regional budgets will go up   in theory


I think I know what you're trying to say.

Just becoming a resident (by getting a *residencia*) is not enough for your local *town hall* to get extra funds. You have to sign on the *padron* to do that.

I also don't believe that you get sign on the padron with just an NIE - I think you need to be a resident with a residencia.


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## RichTUK (Oct 15, 2012)

snikpoh said:


> I think I know what you're trying to say.
> 
> Just becoming a resident (by getting a *residencia*) is not enough for your local *town hall* to get extra funds. You have to sign on the *padron* to do that.
> 
> I also don't believe that you get sign on the padron with just an NIE - I think you need to be a resident with a residencia.


I mean in terms of going down and registering that you live in 'X' address. I am probably wrong about it though, however it is wise to do it regardless.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

snikpoh said:


> I think I know what you're trying to say.
> 
> Just becoming a resident (by getting a *residencia*) is not enough for your local *town hall* to get extra funds. You have to sign on the *padron* to do that.
> 
> I also don't believe that you get sign on the padron with just an NIE - I think you need to be a resident with a residencia.


apparently EU citizens don't need to have a resident cert to sign on the padrón, although a lot of areas will insist on them - & it doesn't take away from the fact that govt websites say that it's a list of RESIDENTS


Ley Orgánica 14/2003, de 20 de noviembre, de Reforma de la Ley Orgánica 4/2000, de 11 de enero, sobre derechos y libertades de los extranjeros en España y su integración social, modificada por la Ley Orgánica 8/2000, de 22 de diciembre; de la Ley 7/1


article 3 point 2


> *Número de la tarjeta de residencia *en vigor, expedida por las autoridades españolas o, en su defecto, número del documento acreditativo de la identidad *o del pasaporte en vigor expedido* por las autoridades del país de procedencia, tratándose de ciudadanos nacionales de estados miembros de la Unión Europea, de otros Estados parte en el Acuerdo sobre el Espacio Económico Europeo o de Estados a los que, en virtud de un convenio internacional se extienda el régimen jurídico previsto para los ciudadanos de los Estados mencionados.


basically, resident card OR passport


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## samthemainman (Aug 15, 2012)

Agreed Xabiachica - In fact - in Valencia for instance (as you know), you HAVE to register on the Padron BEFORE you get your residencia. Different regions do it differently. In Valencia I had to show Passport and Rental Contract (and photocopies of both) at the Ayuntamiento and walked out with the certificate. They can do as many copies as you like for specific purposes (Social Security, Residency, Car etc). They also have a nifty website you can go on to order a copy (they need to have seen originals first) and they email you an official copy within 24 hours. Handy for some places that insist on a copy which is less than 3 months old.


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