# My psycho roommate :(



## Sarah0

Hi expats, I hope this is a good forum to ask help on such a situation. I could actually write pages and pages of all that has happened but will try to keep it short.

Two months ago me and my boyfriend moved in with a German girl with some serious mental problems. I used to feel sorry for her, especially when she was telling me that her exboyfriend (who I actually had to call the police on last month) was threatening her and basically raping her... although now I am starting to wonder if the whole story was made up. Anyway, apart from being unhealthily paranoid, obsessive compulsive and bringing dangerous people into the house everything was fine between us. Then mid last week she sat us down and told us a very sad story that her mother is losing her home and must move in to the house, and so we must lose our home and move out as soon as possible. Of course we were not too happy about this, (am I being unfair to think that?) but as our contract was only for 6 months with 3.5 months remaining we of course had no choice but to agree to move out after that time. Although for her this is not soon enough. 

The next day I was pretty sick with a very sore throat which she knew all about, and she decided to smoke back to back cigarettes in the small kitchen and refuse to open the window intentionally to stop me from being able to cook a meal. Then in the evening we had a friend over for dinner and she totally lost it (we have always had friends over without any problems before this). She screamed at me and my guest, used words that I would rather not repeat on a forum, and said some of the most illogical things you can imagine. She wouldn't even let our guest into our private room. I honestly regret not calling the police but as our friend was already quite scared and freaked out I didn't want to ruin our whole night we had planned for several days already... 

She has now taken away the only copy of the mailbox key and refusing to let us have access to it. She is also refusing to accept the rent (we pay cash with paper receipts) I assume so that she can try to use this to kick us out? 

I really don't know what to do about this... I've tried talking calmly to her but it really isn't possible any more and I'm not even sure what she is capable of... We don't even have a key for our bedroom door so have had to set up a security camera in our room in case she tries to enter while we are out. I'm expecting her to continue trying to force us out of the house and what she might do next... maybe disable the interenet or electricity even? Does she have the right to do this? 

I'm really scared and unsure what to do... Does anyone have any advice for me?

The only thing that might be in my advantage is that she has not followed all the laws when it came to renting us her room. She didn't take permission from the building owner, she is taking the rent in cash because she is receiving benefits from the government, she obviously put our deposit into her own bank account and I'm sure there is even more that I don't yet know about. If she was a normal person she would realize the legal risks she is taking by doing what she is doing but unfortunately she is not, she really believes she is right and can do what ever she wants in this house... :'(


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## Ben-HH

Sarah0 said:


> Hi expats, I hope this is a good forum to ask help on such a situation. I could actually write pages and pages of all that has happened but will try to keep it short.
> 
> Two months ago me and my boyfriend moved in with a German girl with some serious mental problems. I used to feel sorry for her, especially when she was telling me that her exboyfriend (who I actually had to call the police on last month) was threatening her and basically raping her... although now I am starting to wonder if the whole story was made up. Anyway, apart from being unhealthily paranoid, obsessive compulsive and bringing dangerous people into the house everything was fine between us. Then mid last week she sat us down and told us a very sad story that her mother is losing her home and must move in to the house, and so we must lose our home and move out as soon as possible. Of course we were not too happy about this, (am I being unfair to think that?) but as our contract was only for 6 months with 3.5 months remaining we of course had no choice but to agree to move out after that time. Although for her this is not soon enough.
> 
> The next day I was pretty sick with a very sore throat which she knew all about, and she decided to smoke back to back cigarettes in the small kitchen and refuse to open the window intentionally to stop me from being able to cook a meal. Then in the evening we had a friend over for dinner and she totally lost it (we have always had friends over without any problems before this). She screamed at me and my guest, used words that I would rather not repeat on a forum, and said some of the most illogical things you can imagine. She wouldn't even let our guest into our private room. I honestly regret not calling the police but as our friend was already quite scared and freaked out I didn't want to ruin our whole night we had planned for several days already...
> 
> She has now taken away the only copy of the mailbox key and refusing to let us have access to it. She is also refusing to accept the rent (we pay cash with paper receipts) I assume so that she can try to use this to kick us out?
> 
> I really don't know what to do about this... I've tried talking calmly to her but it really isn't possible any more and I'm not even sure what she is capable of... We don't even have a key for our bedroom door so have had to set up a security camera in our room in case she tries to enter while we are out. I'm expecting her to continue trying to force us out of the house and what she might do next... maybe disable the interenet or electricity even? Does she have the right to do this?
> 
> I'm really scared and unsure what to do... Does anyone have any advice for me?
> 
> The only thing that might be in my advantage is that she has not followed all the laws when it came to renting us her room. She didn't take permission from the building owner, she is taking the rent in cash because she is receiving benefits from the government, she obviously put our deposit into her own bank account and I'm sure there is even more that I don't yet know about. If she was a normal person she would realize the legal risks she is taking by doing what she is doing but unfortunately she is not, she really believes she is right and can do what ever she wants in this house... :'(


The best advice I can give is to move out asap. I once had a very strange landlord doing things he wasn't supposed to do (entering my apartment without my consent etc.). I seeked advice at the "Mieterverein". I spoke to a lady who was in real life a judge for rental issues etc. and she strongly recommended me to simply move out and avoid all the hassle. You probably have some "rights" but the whole story sounds far too complicated that someone could solve this easily.


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## Sarah0

Ben-HH said:


> The best advice I can give is to move out asap. I once had a very strange landlord doing things he wasn't supposed to do (entering my apartment without my consent etc.). I seeked advice at the "Mieterverein". I spoke to a lady who was in real life a judge for rental issues etc. and she strongly recommended me to simply move out and avoid all the hassle. You probably have some "rights" but the whole story sounds far too complicated that someone could solve this easily.


Easier said than done, not only would it be unfair for us to move out, and against our moral values to let such disgusting bullying tactics push us out, the biggest problem is how hard it is to find a new apartment for a foreign couple who is relatively new in the city. Almost no one wants to have a couple as roommates, and landlords require several months pay cheques which we do not yet have. I'm also wondering how I will get the paper that says I do not owe this crazy girl money which is also a standard requirement for renting an apartment here.


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## Ben-HH

Sarah0 said:


> Easier said than done, not only would it be unfair for us to move out, and against our moral values to let such disgusting bullying tactics push us out, the biggest problem is how hard it is to find a new apartment for a foreign couple who is relatively new in the city. Almost no one wants to have a couple as roommates, and landlords require several months pay cheques which we do not yet have. I'm also wondering how I will get the paper that says I do not owe this crazy girl money which is also a standard requirement for renting an apartment here.


I know. I am not saying it is fair. But given that you only have 3,5 months left and conisdering the time it takes and money it costs to fight a legal battle with someone who is unpredictable sounds to me like the worse option. 

In which city do you live? I have not heard about this paper which shows you do not owe your former landlord money.


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## Sarah0

Well unfortunately things have now escalated to a scary level.... She has taken to disconnecting the internet and worse bringing a man to the house who she has previously told us is a dangerous person, I believe to intentionally threaten us. Along with this her and this guy have given us formal looking papers that we have 7 days to leave. I have just started a new job, and my husband is starting an intensive Germany course... We do not have the ability to move out in 7 days, nor the ability to stay in danger.... I really don't know what to do :'( I will try to visit the berliner-mieterverein today and hope they will have a suggestion to do but as I wasn't a member I doubt it...


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## Ben-HH

Sarah0 said:


> Well unfortunately things have now escalated to a scary level.... She has taken to disconnecting the internet and worse bringing a man to the house who she has previously told us is a dangerous person, I believe to intentionally threaten us. Along with this her and this guy have given us formal looking papers that we have 7 days to leave. I have just started a new job, and my husband is starting an intensive Germany course... We do not have the ability to move out in 7 days, nor the ability to stay in danger.... I really don't know what to do :'( I will try to visit the berliner-mieterverein today and hope they will have a suggestion to do but as I wasn't a member I doubt it...


I reckon you visit the nearest police station first. Threating is a serious offence! And apart from that she probably has no right to ask you to leave in 7 days.
In case you go the legal path make sure you document every single incident (what, date, time). You will need this to proof your case.

Google "WG Berlin" and you will find plenty of websites offering rooms.

Good luck!

PS: I wasn't a member of the Mieterverin either and they did help me. You might have to pay a little fee.


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## ALKB

Ben-HH said:


> In which city do you live? I have not heard about this paper which shows you do not owe your former landlord money.


Mietschuldenfreiheitsbescheinigung (what a beautiful German word  )

http://www.immonet.de/umzug/wissens...recht-mietschuldenfreiheitsbescheinigung.html

I doubt that any kind of letter from a person who was not even legally able to rent out the flat would have any worth. The owner of the flat would have to certify this which they can't do as they have no idea the OP is living there.

OP, I totally agree - get out of there, a lot of WG's take people on short notice. You could also try Craigslist - Germans have never heard of it but quite a few expats use it to sublet their flats while going abroad for a few weeks/months. 

Getting some legal advice/going to the police to report the threats might also be a good idea.


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## Ben-HH

ALKB said:


> Mietschuldenfreiheitsbescheinigung (what a beautiful German word  )


I just love the German "Wortneuschoepfung"


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## James3214

Just interested to know if you received any advice from the 'berliner-mieterverein'.
My advice would be move (but hold out for any money owed) if you have nothing legal on paper, but stay if it was legally done and report any intimidation to polizei.


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## Sarah0

Well I went to the mieterverein and signed up for membership but i must say it isn't some amazing thing like many people say. The "lawyer" who apparently only works 1 day a week told us that they had no rights to do any of the stuff they are doing, but had no idea how to stop them from doing it... his only advice was to move out. In fact he recommended finding a flat outside of Berlin as it is easy to find quickly..... Never mind our rights, just give up and live a crap life in the suburbs basically... I almost considered trying to cancel my membership on the spot. Anyway in the end the case has been sent to the head office, I hope they will take it more seriously than that guy.


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## James3214

oh. Sorry to hear that. But life in the suburbs of Berlin is surely not too bad? Anyway, hope the intimidation stops but still keep us posted.


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## ALKB

Sarah0 said:


> Well I went to the mieterverein and signed up for membership but i must say it isn't some amazing thing like many people say. The "lawyer" who apparently only works 1 day a week told us that they had no rights to do any of the stuff they are doing, but had no idea how to stop them from doing it... his only advice was to move out. In fact he recommended finding a flat outside of Berlin as it is easy to find quickly..... Never mind our rights, just give up and live a crap life in the suburbs basically... I almost considered trying to cancel my membership on the spot. Anyway in the end the case has been sent to the head office, I hope they will take it more seriously than that guy.


The problem here is that you are not renting legally. Tenants rights are numerous and well-defended in German law (landlords moan about this frequently), for instance, it is nearly impossible to get a tenant out of a flat once they are in and don't want to leave, but you have to be a tenant in the first place. 

Do you have an Untermietervertrag?


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## Nononymous

Sarah0 said:


> ...but as our contract was only for 6 months with 3.5 months remaining we of course had no choice but to agree to move out after that time...


What was the nature of your contract, and with whom?

It sounds to me that you are in an illegal sublet from someone who's committing welfare benefits fraud. Sometimes in situations like this you can approach the landlord and say "we'd be better tenants, rent to us instead" and have the original tenant thrown out. In this case, given mental instability, probably a bad idea.

Unfortunately, you're basically screwed here. You need to get some temporary accommodation fast, and you can probably kiss your deposit goodbye. Forget about your "rights" - you're not renting legally, you have next to none. Or go to the police if you really are being threatened - though again they will probably just tell you to defuse the situation by leaving.


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## Ben-HH

ALKB said:


> The problem here is that you are not renting legally. Tenants rights are numerous and well-defended in German law (landlords moan about this frequently), for instance, it is nearly impossible to get a tenant out of a flat once they are in and don't want to leave, but you have to be a tenant in the first place.
> 
> Do you have an Untermietervertrag?


Agreed. It really depens whether you have a valid contract or not. And on a side note. Don't expect the Mieterverein to solve your problems on the spot. There are lots of laws involved in renting in Germany and to get legal issues solved usually is a VERY LONG process... Hence the numerous advice you got here (backed up by the Mieterverin) is to move out asap and avoid any further hassle. All other options sound more stressful, expensive and a waste of time. 

As unfair and sad as it is.


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## Sarah0

Thank you to everyone for your opinions and advice. Although I must say it is very sad so many people think it is ok to just let dishonest bad people break the law and force someone out of their home, why should this be allowed in Germany, or any first world country? Either way, we are not leaving without finding an appropriate place to live, I refuse to let this person ruin my life any more than they already are.

In regards to the contract, the lawyer has told me that it is a valid contract even without the permission. The building owner could choose to kick them out, but to do that he would also have to go through a court, and that would also kick us out. If that did happen we could then sue her for any damages caused by her not fullfilling her contract. Oh and the contract she gave actually clearly says that as it is a fixed term contract neither party can exit the contract. 

I continue to talk to the Mieterverin and insist they do what I am now paying membership for, they said my lawyer will give me a call on monday... Just hope nothing serious will happen by then.

I am also looking for any way that I can take her to court after we leave, it would make me much happier to leave if I knew that I could sue her for compensation later on. If anyone has any suggestions on that please let me know. For example if we were forced out unfairly and ended up paying a higher price for a different apartment, or saying that she has caused damage to our mental health which is also true.


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## Nononymous

I doubt that suing a crazy person on welfare is going to be terribly profitable. Good luck with that.

No one said it's okay that someone is making life difficult for you. The advice was that your best course of action in this bad situation is to leave immediately. Staying and fighting is likely going to be a big mistake, but it's your decision.


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## Ben-HH

Sarah0 said:


> Thank you to everyone for your opinions and advice. Although I must say it is very sad so many people think it is ok to just let dishonest bad people break the law and force someone out of their home, why should this be allowed in Germany, or any first world country? Either way, we are not leaving without finding an appropriate place to live, I refuse to let this person ruin my life any more than they already are.
> 
> In regards to the contract, the lawyer has told me that it is a valid contract even without the permission. The building owner could choose to kick them out, but to do that he would also have to go through a court, and that would also kick us out. If that did happen we could then sue her for any damages caused by her not fullfilling her contract. Oh and the contract she gave actually clearly says that as it is a fixed term contract neither party can exit the contract.
> 
> I continue to talk to the Mieterverin and insist they do what I am now paying membership for, they said my lawyer will give me a call on monday... Just hope nothing serious will happen by then.
> 
> I am also looking for any way that I can take her to court after we leave, it would make me much happier to leave if I knew that I could sue her for compensation later on. If anyone has any suggestions on that please let me know. For example if we were forced out unfairly and ended up paying a higher price for a different apartment, or saying that she has caused damage to our mental health which is also true.


Hi Sarah

It is bad and I really feel sorry for you. I can totally understand your frustration! It is not fair at all. I only hope that you do not believe this is a typical German habit. It is not! But unfortunately a**h***s can be found everywhere.

All the best!


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## beppi

Sarah0 said:


> I refuse to let this person ruin my life any more than they already are.
> 
> If that did happen we could then sue her for any damages caused by her not fullfilling her contract.
> 
> it would make me much happier to leave if I knew that I could sue her for compensation later on.


It seems this is a case of you not wanting to accept answers that you don't like, even if they are true. To explain the above points in more detail, from a non-biased external viewpoint (which you do not have any more):
- The longer you get worked up about the issue and fight with this person, the more you allow her to ruin your life. It's better to get over it and move on!
- You can possibly sue her into fulfilling the contract (and let you stay on for a miserable 3.5 months longer - believe me, it will be even more miserable than now), but do you really want that?
- You could also sue her for damages and you might even win in court - but if she has no money (which is likely if she receives government support) you will not get a single cent and will even have to pay your own lawyer and legal costs - a lose-lose situation, I would say.
Well, it's your decision.
If you really want to fight, you should immediately get a lawyer (first consultation is a flat fee of approx. €200) and let him handle the case.
I would just move out as soon as possible (to a better place for sure, since nothing else can be as bad as you described) and just send evidence of her illegal subletting to the landlord - she will be kicked out by him in due course and then has the bigger problem than you!


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