# Retirement: Long term residence difficulties?



## GeoffreyLevens

From all I have read, it seems to me that someone wishing to retire to and remain in Thailand will always be in a bit of an unstable, uncertain position in regards to visa status. How certain is it that you will get renewed every year? If I really move there, I would hate to get booted after few years!

Thank you


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## Cer

GeoffreyLevens said:


> From all I have read, it seems to me that someone wishing to retire to and remain in Thailand will always be in a bit of an unstable, uncertain position in regards to visa status. How certain is it that you will get renewed every year? If I really move there, I would hate to get booted after few years!
> 
> Thank you


No quarantee what so ever.


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## 101richard

*Long term residence difficulties*

The rules are doesn't exist any longer, so yes it is facilitate as long as the consulate is allows to keep issuing you your visa.and you can extend your tourist visa entry of 60 days by 3o days for 1,900 baht(Thailand currency)another possibility is to go there and study in Thailand and get student visa and work permit in day for some hours.


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## GeoffreyLevens

Thank you both! Confirms my uneasy suspicion. Despite all the pluses, that seems to me pretty much a "deal breaker" for permanent relocation...


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## Glen10

GeoffreyLevens said:


> Thank you both! Confirms my uneasy suspicion. Despite all the pluses, that seems to me pretty much a "deal breaker" for permanent relocation...


It's always like that. No matter where you go. Especially nowadays. Of course some countries are more stable, and that stability comes with a cost($$$).
If I were to put Tland on a scale from one to ten of the happening compared to the rest of the world, I'd put it at seven. Which is pretty damed good. 
Overall, Thailand, and Thai people are a pretty nice, and you get a lot of bang for your buck here.
There's a lot of good places south of the border as well, bro. I'm thinking about that in five years or so.


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## Song_Si

Glen10 said:


> you get a lot of bang for your buck here.


common topic for expats (and one best avoided imo) is the exchange rate changes; met many an expat on Phuket who wanted to talk about the 'good old days'. 
In Dec 2004 the pound-to-baht conversion was one pound for 75.5 baht. By Dec 2007 it was down around 60 to the pound, a year later 51.9 and today just under 50. 
A one-third 'loss' of income for those reliant solely on their UK pensions. For those who came here and eg bought property/car and to live on a pension - can be hard times now with combination of reduced income and increased day-to-day living costs.


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## Glen10

I do empathize with anyone when that happens, but that's not something that's limited to Thailand. That happens everywhere when currencies fluctuate. I'd rather be in Tland when my currency dips than Norway  
Overall I think Thailand is a good place to live/visit and the people handle all the tourists/expats very well. Lots of things to consider when you make a move.


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## joseph44

Being in Thailand as a long-term resident on a retirement-status is one of the safest and easiest ways. 
Most of the stories you can read on the forums are horror-stories, because it doesn't seem to make sense to write down the success-stories (not interesting enough). 

As said in the previous posts, nothing is guaranteed and what turns me off personally is the fact, that you have to "ask" permission to stay every year again, but that said, if you meet the requirements (financially, behavior and health) there is no problem.


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## Cer

joseph44 said:


> Being in Thailand as a long-term resident on a retirement-status is one of the safest and easiest ways.
> Most of the stories you can read on the forums are horror-stories, because it doesn't seem to make sense to write down the success-stories (not interesting enough).
> 
> As said in the previous posts, nothing is guaranteed and what turns me off personally is the fact, that you have to "ask" permission to stay every year again, but that said, if you meet the requirements (financially, behavior and health) there is no problem.


I couldn't agree more :clap2:
Till now,I consider the every 90 days trip to the immigration office as normal interruption of my daily routine and it is a one-minute action since computerization(except from the travel distance by car).What if my age prevent me from car driving any more?
I know the 90 days can be done by post,but there are also horror stories about that ( one of my first 90 days posts got also lost!!).


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## Song_Si

^ do all Immigration offices do/accept the reporting in by mail?

Where we lived in Sa Kaeo it was a 180km round-trip to Immigration at Aranyaprathet, here a shorter 110km, the Chanthaburi Office is conveniently located 43km north of C City, closer to the border as most of their business is with Cambodians getting short term work permits.

I'd be reluctant to rely on anything sent via post in an envelope (that could contain money); we have now given up on sending anything to partner's family (200km north of us), envelope or parcel they do not get there. I suspect the last step in the chain, the local part-time delivery man, but can't prove it.


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## KNJ

It is one year at a time, with reporting every 90 days, limited rights to own property. Balanced against that good, food, weather, relatively cheap.
Malaysia and Philipinnes make it much easier for retirement visas,
In Malaysia you can take all your household and even a car in Tax free.
Cambodia just seems turning up is enough stay as long as you want.
Indonesia is possible but total restrictions on owning property (don't listen to anything different that other people tell you ) 
Singapore is possible if you have plenty of money.
Aussie and NZ if you have very deep pockets


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## Glen10

Most of the stories you can read on the forums are horror-stories, because it doesn't seem to make sense to write down the success-stories (not interesting enough). 

When babies are happy they are quiet. When babies are unhappy they cry


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## Newforestcat

I would like to join in to say that the safest place on earth you feel is often your native country. We all are less than keen on the unknown and unexpected. That is why a lot of people never think of emigrating anywhere and some only do because of their financial needs. 

As a Thai having been living in the UK for many years, I think settling in Thailand is much easier than doing the same anywhere in Europe for any outsiders. The reasons of rules being tightened in Thailand are, IMHO, goverment's paranoia, fears of over-population, public facilities being over-stretched, house price rise in certain areas and criminal abuse. There is no difference from Europe in general. You are never guaranteed to be, on a permanent basis, in any country of which you are not a citizen. But no foolish government will try to turn away or kick out expats who bring more wealth and growth to the country. If the Thai government even start talking about that, a lot of people including me will be outraged and voice our concern very strongly. In general, Thais either welcome or do not mind any expats. This land has been a refuge for many nationalities for many centuries due to its location and weather. Some Thais are even proud that you like their country enough to want to move here.

Talking about the exchange rate issues, if you have enough savings to afford airplane ticket (s) to go to your home country as soon as needed, on a very low level of income by farangs' standard as of now, you can still live a relatively good life in Thailand. Let me give you an example, on the lowest government pension you get from the UK for a single person of approx £85 or 4,200 Baht per week or just under 17,000 a month, you should be able to pay for your food, rent and health insurance. You won't have a flashy life style, but some rural Thai families only live on 30-50% less. For the same money, I don't think I would be able to pay for anything except very cheap food and some utilities bills in the UK. I would possibly be sent to prison for failing to pay my taxes and live a much better life inside. If you are paranoid, just don't buy any house or big-ticket items. You can book a plane ticket on your smart phone within 20-30 minutes, pack your suitcase in 15 minutes and then leave for goods. 

Having said all that, I know that Thailand has been losing its appeals fast due to the on-going political conflicts. I think we are no longer in the days where civil wars could have started without any warnings. All of the world's dictators are living in fear of the power of the media and the citizen, they no longer are able to do anything they wish especially kill expats or seize all their possessions.


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## bkk

GeoffreyLevens said:


> From all I have read, it seems to me that someone wishing to retire to and remain in Thailand will always be in a bit of an unstable, uncertain position in regards to visa status. How certain is it that you will get renewed every year? If I really move there, I would hate to get booted after few years!
> 
> Thank you


I have retired to Thailand and it's very easy to get a retirement visa and to renew it every year. The only catch is that you need enough money to meet the visa requirements. Currently (2012) you need either 65,000 baht per month regular income (e.g. pension, rental income, etc) or 800,000 baht in a local bank account for 3 month before applying for the visa.

If you meet these requirements that there is no reason that you won't be able to renew your visa every year. Of course, these amounts could rise in the future. Also, currency movements could go against you. But that is life. Things aren't certain even if you stay in your own country. But if you have enough money and are over 50 then you won't have any problem at all. Thai immigration are very friendly and helpful. The want foreigners to retire here because it's good for their economy.


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## jebadad

I don´t think that what was said above (that there is no country which irreversibly grants you permanent residence unlesss you become a citizen) is correct. E. g. South Africa and some Caribean islands will (provided you have enough money).


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## Andrew Hicks

GeoffreyLevens said:


> From all I have read, it seems to me that someone wishing to retire to and remain in Thailand will always be in a bit of an unstable, uncertain position in regards to visa status. How certain is it that you will get renewed every year? If I really move there, I would hate to get booted after few years!
> 
> Thank you


Someone retiring to Thailand aged over fifty can get annual visa renewals by presenting a bank book with at least 80,000 baht in it. You also have to report your residence every 90 days.

Renewal should be automatic but there is always an element of doubt for the future, though the general policy is unlikely to change.

The process is irritating but you can easily swallow that if you like the place enough.

Need I add that there are lots of books about retiring to Thailand.

Andrew


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## Cer

Andrew Hicks said:


> Someone retiring to Thailand aged over fifty can get annual visa renewals by presenting a bank book with at least 80,000 baht in it. You also have to report your residence every 90 days.
> 
> Renewal should be automatic but there is always an element of doubt for the future, though the general policy is unlikely to change.
> 
> The process is irritating but you can easily swallow that if you like the place enough.
> 
> Need I add that there are lots of books about retiring to Thailand.
> 
> Andrew


You probably made a mistake because it should be 800.000 baht and it should be in your account for at least a period of 3 months before requesting your extension.
It is also possible to present a proof of a monthly income of 65.000 baht (proved by your embassy) OR.... a combination of both.
There is a big possibility that the immigration will ask you for proof of monthly spending (copy of your bankbook printed on the same day of your extension request.
As a retiree with "retirement" visa, you are not allowed to work,so they like to know where your income is coming from.


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## Mweiga

Cer said:


> You probably made a mistake because it should be 800.000 baht and it should be in your account for at least a period of 3 months before requesting your extension.
> It is also possible to present a proof of a monthly income of 65.000 baht (proved by your embassy) OR.... a combination of both.
> There is a big possibility that the immigration will ask you for proof of monthly spending (copy of your bankbook printed on the same day of your extension request.
> As a retiree with "retirement" visa, you are not allowed to work,so they like to know where your income is coming from.


... and if it's Pattaya immigration you deal with , that's 3 calendar months for the 800 grand - not 12 weeks ! They now check the dates very carefully against credit balance in your bank passbook and it must not drop below 800,000 for 3 calendar months prior to renewal date otherwise you face the frustrating process of a temporary visa extension and then have to do the renewal application all over again , paying twice of course.

Otherwise if you follow the quite simple rules to the letter you'll have no problem and the one year non-imm visa is actually a breeze - (at the moment !).


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## xtr3mx7

As a long term expat here, I find that staying in Thailand isn't that all troublesome. 

But, the 90 day reporting is becoming more and more bureaucratic with more papers to deal with. They now request that you photocopy all your passport pages + the departure card.

I find it amusing that my wife has already gotten her residence permit from my country (i.e. after 6 months from date of application - NO FEES whatsoever) whereas here, I'll have to pay huge sum to get that. And the top of all, it's not even guaranteed that I'll have the permit.

The only trouble you'll get is the lazy officers that don't even try to understand what you are telling them. Some aren't helpful at all (e.g. Songkhla Immigration) but if you are lucky enough, you might meet the nicest officers of all (e.g. BKK Nonthaburi Immigration). Unfortunately, I'd to move to the South and now have to deal with lazy officers.

If you are the kind that hassle free and you're better off in your country (have assets etc unless there's nothing retaining you there), I'd recommend to visit Thailand from time to time rather than a permanent relocation.


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## GeoffreyLevens

joseph44 said:


> ...if you meet the requirements (financially, behavior and health) there is no problem.


Hate to be the Cassandra but that is just it right there. When all is well, all is well, but when it isn't, then you are screwed. As we get older, all of us are very likely to run into health problems. Also, as the global economy implodes, we are very likely to run into financial problems. IF you have a fat bank account or some such, maybe relatives/a place to land back where you came from, you can always bail out. But if you are ill and or broke and get tossed out of the country w/ no resources and nowhere to go, you could be in for a fair bit of grief... Of course my fantasy is that I will live happily ever after and never get ill and always have plenty of money and die in my sleep with a smile on my face. Sadly, it seldom works out that way for people. And too often you don't see "it" coming until you are under the wheels, so to speak.


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## owenjones

The rules change from time to time and never get easier, but Thailand is still quite to reside in.
It is the same as everywhere though, it comes down to money..

Put 800k Baht in the bank and a years visa is a breeze.

Much easier than vice-versa in the UK.


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## Cer

xtr3mx7 said:


> As a long term expat here, I find that staying in Thailand isn't that all troublesome.
> 
> But, the 90 day reporting is becoming more and more bureaucratic with more papers to deal with. They now request that you photocopy all your passport pages + the departure card.
> 
> I find it amusing that my wife has already gotten her residence permit from my country (i.e. after 6 months from date of application - NO FEES whatsoever) whereas here, I'll have to pay huge sum to get that. And the top of all, it's not even guaranteed that I'll have the permit.
> 
> The only trouble you'll get is the lazy officers that don't even try to understand what you are telling them. Some aren't helpful at all (e.g. Songkhla Immigration) but if you are lucky enough, you might meet the nicest officers of all (e.g. BKK Nonthaburi Immigration). Unfortunately, I'd to move to the South and now have to deal with lazy officers.
> 
> If you are the kind that hassle free and you're better off in your country (have assets etc unless there's nothing retaining you there), I'd recommend to visit Thailand from time to time rather than a permanent relocation.


Nowadays 90 days reporting is very easy at Daan Kwian (Korat) immigration.All long stayers are in a computer data base and on arriving you show your paperslip (given to you at the revious time) and your passport.All information is already pre filled in.
No tm47 anymore!
You will receive your passport back (no copies to be made) plus the new paper slip,already filled in including the date of next report.


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## Cer

GeoffreyLevens said:


> Hate to be the Cassandra but that is just it right there. When all is well, all is well, but when it isn't, then you are screwed. As we get older, all of us are very likely to run into health problems. Also, as the global economy implodes, we are very likely to run into financial problems. IF you have a fat bank account or some such, maybe relatives/a place to land back where you came from, you can always bail out. But if you are ill and or broke and get tossed out of the country w/ no resources and nowhere to go, you could be in for a fair bit of grief... Of course my fantasy is that I will live happily ever after and never get ill and always have plenty of money and die in my sleep with a smile on my face. Sadly, it seldom works out that way for people. And too often you don't see "it" coming until you are under the wheels, so to speak.


Sorry to say,but without a decent income / pension fund as well as a good health insurance,one should not consider ANY immigration to ANY country outside your home country.
I see quit a lot of people unprepaired.


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## owenjones

Cer said:


> Sorry to say,but without a decent income / pension fund as well as a good health insurance,one should not consider ANY immigration to ANY country outside your home country.
> I see quit a lot of people unprepaired.


I agree with the health insurance aspect, but it is not a requirement in law.

One of the reasons given for having to have a lump sum in the bank is in case you fall ill. If health insurance were made part of the visa requirement, they could reduce the 'deposit'.

Like insurance is required before a vehicle is allowed on the road.


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## fatherup

Does not seem to be a porblem as long as you have the correct paperwork, yearly extension 1900 baht and report every90 days at immigration, basically just a pain in the arse but these are their rules.


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## Cer

owenjones said:


> I agree with the health insurance aspect, but it is not a requirement in law.
> 
> One of the reasons given for having to have a lump sum in the bank is in case you fall ill. If health insurance were made part of the visa requirement, they could reduce the 'deposit'.
> 
> Like insurance is required before a vehicle is allowed on the road.


If 800.000 on the bank is a possible problem (if an income statement isn't possible),than you cannot feel safe here.May be you're lucky not falling ill but......
The older you become the bigger the risks of serious illnesses.
Heart-brain-hips-joints it is simply the age.
800.000 is not much if you need that ,not only for your extension of visa but ALSO for illnesses.Not having enough money for income statement,you will also not have enough to fill it up after using it (partly).
Don't underestimate costs of health.


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## owenjones

*Health Insurance*



Cer said:


> If 800.000 on the bank is a possible problem (if an income statement isn't possible),than you cannot feel safe here.May be you're lucky not falling ill but......
> The older you become the bigger the risks of serious illnesses.
> Heart-brain-hips-joints it is simply the age.
> 800.000 is not much if you need that ,not only for your extension of visa but ALSO for illnesses.Not having enough money for income statement,you will also not have enough to fill it up after using it (partly).
> Don't underestimate costs of health.


I personally will probably never need the 400k I have the bank (married visa) because I have health insurance, which is vital for peace of mind for me. My wife has it too.

24k Baht each this year.

Available for ALL ages from the Pattaya ex-pats club (look them up on Google).

There are various schemes for over and under 65.

Owen


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## Newforestcat

24K Baht each PA for health insurance? 

Oh la la! I guess I have to get a job in the Thai Civil Service just for the health benefits for me and my hubby! I so do not want to do that. 

I suppose that is £1K PA which is a return ticket from BKK to London, more than 50% cheaper than my UK Council Tax PA!!!

Thailand still rocks!


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## owenjones

Newforestcat said:


> 24K Baht each PA for health insurance?
> 
> Oh la la! I guess I have to get a job in the Thai Civil Service just for the health benefits for me and my hubby! I so do not want to do that.
> 
> I suppose that is £1K PA which is a return ticket from BKK to London, more than 50% cheaper than my UK Council Tax PA!!!
> 
> Thailand still rocks!


It's true 

Google Pattaya expats club check it out.

Annual worldwide insurance for members of the club, which costs 600 B for life, pay about 24k B per annum.

It started at 11k seven years ago!

It is a corporate scheme so individual premiums do not rise because of personal claims history.

Owen


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## ptrlee

The problem of residency is faced by expats everywhere. Thailand is no exception to it. All these things depends on the will of the government or we can say on the policies of the government.


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