# thinking of making a new home in japan



## jasmine_ann

i am thinking of moving to japan, i am disabled and get around $900 a month, can i live in that kind of money there?


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## melina

*living in Japan*

No. 25 yrs ago I had a truly no frills apartment in a small city and just my rent was 60,000 yen (that's approx $600USD). No heat, no a/c, no insullation. In the winter, I could see my breath in my apartment. 
The cost of living in Japan is 4x greater than living in the US. I am quite frugal and adaptable and even if I were single it would be tough to live on $900 per week in a small city/town in Japan. Cost of living is one of the reasons my husband and I have not moved back. 
b


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## melina

*did i mention*

Of course the apartment was tiny and bare (appliances & furniture are quite expensive Japan). Standard Japanese apartment - all you get is the walls, floor and ceiling, oh and a toilet. Although most do, not all inexpensive apartments have a bath or shower. And if you have a disability and are not fluent in Japanese, it will not be easy to find a doctor you can communicate well with. I don't know about today but 25 yrs ago I could get health insurance reasonably through a national program. But with the problems Japan has had with immigrants over th last 15 years, I doubt this is still available to non-nationals. With out insurance, health care is outrageously expensive. 
b


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## synthia

I think I responded to this long ago, but my response seems to have disappeared.

Japan is an absolutely terrible place for anyone with a disability of any sort. Japanese with disabilities (those needing crutches or wheelchairs or who are blind or retarded) are pretty much hidden at home. Children are encouraged to make fun of anyone who is different.

And $900 per month is not even close to enough to live on. I don't think you would be eligible for the national health insurance, and even if you were, they raise the premiums if you use the services a lot.

For anyone else contemplating this, it is a very, very bad idea.


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## LexLuther

Good points.

I have been to Japan several times. The city centers tend to be full of "beautiful people." One has to wonder where those less blessed spend their time. As stated, it appears to be somewhere out of sight.

I am not an expert. However, modern Japan comes across to me as a dichotomy. It is a beautiful, clean and efficient place - however, it also comes across as cold, even cruel at times. As I said in another post, if you offer value to those around you, they can be the greatest hosts in the world. The food and service are fabulous and one can start to feel like a movie star in short order.

However, the country also has one of the highest suicide rates in the world. The only reason I am considering relocating there is because my company will be sponsoring me. In my home in the U.S., I make what most would consider a high salary - however, it wouldn't go far at all in Japan.


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## synthia

I wouldn't bank so much on the clean and efficient, either.

If you are going to be transferred, make sure they provide you with adequate housing and other expat perks.


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## beatnik

melina said:


> No. 25 yrs ago I had a truly no frills apartment in a small city and just my rent was 60,000 yen (that's approx $600USD). No heat, no a/c, no insullation. In the winter, I could see my breath in my apartment.
> The cost of living in Japan is 4x greater than living in the US. I am quite frugal and adaptable and even if I were single it would be tough to live on $900 per week in a small city/town in Japan. Cost of living is one of the reasons my husband and I have not moved back.
> b


Yes, $900 would be an extremely tight budget but Japan is not 4x the cost of US living. I've lived in NYC and been living in Los Angeles and can say with certainty I could move my family to a nice neighborhood in Tokyo and live well for the same as it costs in Los Angeles. I do agree that 2500+ would be a better amount for a single person.


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## beatnik

LexLuther said:


> Good points.
> 
> I have been to Japan several times. The city centers tend to be full of "beautiful people." One has to wonder where those less blessed spend their time. As stated, it appears to be somewhere out of sight.
> 
> I am not an expert. However, modern Japan comes across to me as a dichotomy. It is a beautiful, clean and efficient place - however, it also comes across as cold, even cruel at times. As I said in another post, if you offer value to those around you, they can be the greatest hosts in the world. The food and service are fabulous and one can start to feel like a movie star in short order.
> 
> However, the country also has one of the highest suicide rates in the world. The only reason I am considering relocating there is because my company will be sponsoring me. In my home in the U.S., I make what most would consider a high salary - however, it wouldn't go far at all in Japan.


For me Tokyo is one of the least littered city but the air quality is not that great. There is a lot of beauty. Japanese are not cold but reserved and not outgoing which may seem to come across cold but I assure you japanese ar e truly some of the warmest people you'll ever get to know. 

Also, once you get to spend some time you'll see Japan less as a dichotomy and more as an amazing harmony and balance of life, spirit and creativity. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying it's perfect but there is something really special about how Japanese culture is still infused in everything. 

Whether it's hanami in the spring, having a perfect Starbuck's latte, being able to walk through a shrine or temple in the middle of downtown, there's so many beautiful parts of life that are existing so harmoniously.


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## synthia

$900 per month is not going to be sufficient, and the OP is handicapped, which I am assuming means mobility issues. Japan would be quite a difficult place to live, I think.


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## FJCOM

I'd say you COULD live in Japan with $900 (even subtracting for tourist visa runs) but I don't know why you would want to.
It might be a pretty crappy existence, but then 900 at home probably doesn't go too far either.
You could live quite nicely on that in India or Indonesia etc.


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## larabell

I have to side with the conservative faction on this issue. Someone young and mobile who spends most of their time out and about could probably squeak by on $900. But your place will be small, out-of-the-way, and probably not all that convenient. If it were more like $2k, I could see a simple but livable apartment in a building with an elevator not too far from the action and still some money left over to eat. But the cheapest places I've seen around Tokyo are $600/month or so, unless you live in a gaijin house (which would not be easy with a disability).

Plus, while Tokyo is certainly well ahead of the rest of the country in terms of handicapped access, the whole issue didn't even get any attention until relatively recently (by American standards) and it's still pretty rare to find accessible facilities around town, save for government buildings.

And, from what I've been hearing recently, you may not want to be too far from Tokyo, as the older prejudices may well still be alive and kicking (I must admit that, not having spent much time outside of Tokyo other than for tourism, I'm not much of an expert on how folks are treated in other areas -- I'd hope for the best but expect the worst).

In short, probably not a good move.


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## Shouganai

jasmine_ann said:


> i am thinking of moving to japan, i am disabled and get around $900 a month, can i live in that kind of money there?


That might be a little bit tight. If you could buy a foreclosed property there it would be cheaper. They are as little as $10,000 in the countryside. The big expenses are rent & utilities. Buying a property depends on how long you intend to live there. If you could solve the rent cost, you would be cruising. I dont know your constraints, or whether you need a city location to work.

The Japanese dont have a very good attitude towards disabled people. Basically they treat them as lepers, sorry to say, and then you are a foreigner as well. But by all means turn them around. 

Personally I think you would find the Philippines a far nicer place to live. I don't know how independent you are, but you could pay a person to protect you in the Philippines. You can rent a place for as little as $120/month, furnish it for $1000, and the visa rules are very easy. Just leave every 18mths. Also Filipinos are far kinder. You can buy foreclosed property there as well. Good timing! I recommend Vigan City other areas in San Fernando.


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## synthia

To go back to the disability issue, can you use a squat toilet? Can you climb stairs? It's not uncommon for there to be no elevator access in buildings of only eight stories or so.


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## Shouganai

synthia said:


> To go back to the disability issue, can you use a squat toilet? Can you climb stairs? It's not uncommon for there to be no elevator access in buildings of only eight stories or so.


I would question that. The law requires buildings of 5+ storeys to have an elevator. There would be few buildings breaching that I would think. But I guess Asia of old was a different place. 
the local community centres (kominkans) are good places to go for help with special facilities I suspect.


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## synthia

For a handicapped person, my apartment in Kitakyushu would have been a problem with just five stories. I lived on the fourth floor (American = third floor Japanese), and even without a handicap, it took me a while before I could climb them easily. I don't remember elevators on the monorail in Kitakyushu or in the Tokyo subways, either, but then I wasn't looking for one.

I paid 45000 yen for my 2DK in Kitakyushu, which is a vastly different amount depending on the exchange rate. Since the poster would be living on a US dollar income, this could be critical.

When I arrived: At 134 yen/dollar, $900 = 120,600 yen
When I left after a year: At 108 yen/dollar, $900 = 97,200 yen
When a friend's daughter moved to Japan: At 86 yen/$, $900 = 77,400 yen
Current exchange rate: At 105.761/$, $900 = 95,185 yen

Renting an apartment also requires a considerable upfront investment. Mine was first month's rent (of course), last month's rent (happens in the US, too), one month's rent as a deposit (common here in the US) and two month's rent as 'key money' (essentially a gift to the owner, non-refundable).

There are several posts in other forums about an adequate income in other countries, and people are expressing doubts about the possibility of living in the Philippines and Mexico on slightly larger incomes.


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## larabell

It's probably going to depend on where in Japan, as well. I really only know Tokyo and, while there are still buildings with no elevators, they're rare and usually only 2-3 stories. On the other hand, there's no way you'd find a 45,000 yen 2DK in Tokyo unless it had some kind of defect (like a 5th floor apartment in a building with no elevators ;-)).

It wasn't that long ago that I found myself pushing a baby carriage (called a "baby car" here) every time we went out. I learned quickly which stations and which stores were easily accessible and we would usually go slightly out of our way in order to hit the escalators and elevators. My guess would be that in most large cities in Japan, it would not be all that hard to figure out ways around and accessible routes from place to place if one were sufficiently motivated by their desire to simply *be* in Japan.

There does seem to be a move, at least in Tokyo, to make transportation and public buildings more accessible. But I doubt outlying areas have the budget to make the changes or the disabled population to make it worth the effort. In that case, it could be a case where you really need to be in one of the larger cities in order to be able to get around but cannot afford to actually live there.

By the way, I don't think the specific disability was ever mentioned so we may all be way off track with our guesses anyway.

And I agree that if the $900 mentioned before represents a fixed income in US dollars, there is significant risk. We haven't seen 85 yen/$ since... what... 1995? But it was below 100 yen/$ for a short time a few years ago and it wouldn't take much of an economic shift to see it that low again. When a 5% movement in the exchange rate means the difference between eating and not eating, it's not a very comfortable position to be in.

What about Baja Mexico? I've heard endless stories about how cheap it is to live there.


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## synthia

In Kitakyushu, my apartment building was actually very good. I don't recall there being any high rise buildings. A Japanese friend and her husband lived in government housing, on the eighth floor, and there were no elevators.

If the OP chose Mexico, she would have to make a visa run every six months, always risking that for some reason she wouldn't be allowed back in. The residency visa currently requires an income of around $1300 per month, so she wouldn't be eligible.

Which brings up another question: What sort of visa could she get? Would she have to make a visa run every three months? And how many times would she be allowed to do that?


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## larabell

synthia said:


> Which brings up another question: What sort of visa could she get? Would she have to make a visa run every three months? And how many times would she be allowed to do that?


I've heard various comments here and elsewhere that there is some kind of limit to the number of times you can enter as a "tourist" but I had a friend who was actually working here (at a subsidiary of his US company) for a little over 3 years with nothing other than 3-month visitor's visas. Maybe that was just a case where they hadn't noticed but you'd think someone would wonder about the number of Japan entry stamps he must have accumulated.

BTW, it used to be that you couldn't work on a tourist visa at all but they changed that over a decade ago to provide for business travellers coming to meet customers, do presentations, etc. So, as a representative of the "home office" doing business in Japan, it's arguably within the guidelines for my friend to have been working here on a temporary visa. If this sounds like something you'd be interested in doing, I'd suggest checking with the Japanese Immigration Bureau first just to be sure. Oh... and you'd, of course, have to have a job with a company outside of Japan and be paid outside of Japan in order to make that work. And there are drawbacks -- like not being able to sign your own cell phone contract or open a bank account.

There are other "cultural" visas, I believe, that allow for entry into Japan without permission to work. I don't know the details but it might be worth checking. Working visas are there to prevent a flood of foreigners from taking jobs from Japanese. But if you're not working (and not causing trouble), it seems the Japanese government should be happy to let you come spend your money here.


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## synthia

Way back in the early 90's, I saw a Malaysian guy at the next counter get sent back because he had come in and out too many times, even though the guy had a new passport. New software linked the new passport to the old, and he was toast.

I warned one of my co-workers, who didn't believe me and went off to Hong Kong where he got a new passport. He, too, was stopped when he came in, even though he had only had one recent entry, and his multiple entries were from a period two to four years earlier. Our employer was fined, was held responisble for the remaining rent on the guy's lease, and was responsible for packing up his household goods and shipping them back to the UK. So, you never know.

I knew a couple of people who had 'cultural visas' and they were all studying something, like _ikebana _or _noh_. I think the visa you get if you study Japanese is a cultural visa.


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## velder

*My perspective*

I don't know what it's like in Tokyo but I live in Osaka about half an hour away from downtown. I have seen many many carers looking after disabled and aged persons around the area, taking them for walks and shopping. I really don't sense any sort of bad attitude such as they should be hidden or embarrassed whatsoever. I also find this area to be wheelchair-friendly, I know because I wheel my daughter around in a pram. Yes, there are many beautiful and healthy people around...I guess because they like to look after themselves. Someone also posted that they find the Japanese people cold, I personally think they just express less emotion than westerners do, having made friends here in Japan, all of whom are local, I find them to be more reserved but are warm and kind. They probably think I'm too loud! Anyway, there's good and bad in every lot right? This is my experience having lived and travelled around Asia. Hope this helps someone.


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## synthia

I'd love to believe attitudes have changed. I remember a world of no ramps, and being stunned the one time I saw someone in a wheelchair after having spent more than half a year there.


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## velder

synthia said:


> I'd love to believe attitudes have changed. I remember a world of no ramps, and being stunned the one time I saw someone in a wheelchair after having spent more than half a year there.


How long ago were you here? I gather you didn't enjoy your time here. On a few occasions I have seen droves of disabled people come off the train and make their way to the Intex Halls - there must have been a show specific to their needs because I really do mean DROVES of people. On one of these occasions, I happened to be at the train station where they had extra staff to assist the disabled by sliding a ramp between the platform and train.


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## synthia

velder said:


> at the train station where they had extra staff to assist the disabled by sliding a ramp between the platform and train.


My question would be whether those people are available on a routine basis for a person traveling alone, or whether special arrangements were made for whatever the event was.

It has been a long time, early 90's.

The original poster has long disappeared, but I always thought the plan was flawed for two reasons, the OP did not have sufficient income to live in Japan, and something like the recent rise of the yen against the dollar would have been devastating, and the problem of access.


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## synthia

Well, on an income of $900 US per month, the OP isn't going to be hiring people to care for her, and I doubt she'd be eligible for any government programs.

I enjoyed my time in Japan, actually. I spent three months in Tokyo, then came back later for a year. I wouldn't have returned if I hadn't liked it.

The OP would have had one more problem, getting a visa that would allow her to stay.


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## larabell

As for the access thing, like just about anything else in Japan, it's going to depend on where one lives. There seems to be a renewed awareness of the issues of access here in Tokyo. The station employees seem ready to assist wheelchair-bound passengers at any time with no special arrangement. And most stations have been installing wide ticket gates, escalators, elevators, ramps, and signs leading to them which specifically refer to handicapped access. Government buildings, too. It's very similar to the changes that happened a couple decades ago in the US -- where there was a specific program in place to improve accessibility. But I would not expect such rapid progress (or even awareness of the issues) in outlying areas.

Like Synthia said, the more pressing issues will be obtaining a visa and finding enough money to survive. Actually, the latter is usually the crux of the matter. If one has enough income to survive *and* take up Ikebana or something like that, a non-working visa is not all that hard to come by, from what I've heard.


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## velder

synthia said:


> My question would be whether those people are available on a routine basis for a person traveling alone, or whether special arrangements were made for whatever the event was.
> 
> It has been a long time, early 90's.
> 
> The original poster has long disappeared, but I always thought the plan was flawed for two reasons, the OP did not have sufficient income to live in Japan, and something like the recent rise of the yen against the dollar would have been devastating, and the problem of access.


The extra staff were especially arranged for the event. A lot of disabled and aged do live around my area and wheelchair access is pretty good in all of the places I have been to in Osaka. 

As for the $900 the OP asked about, there was fair mention of it already in the thread that I didn't bother having my say on that. But yes, it is too little an amount to live on in Japan and I agree there is also the visa issue. For foreigners who don't speak Japanese, you need to rely on work colleagues and friends for translations.


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