# 'Proposed' New Passport DS-5513



## Isabel5 (Aug 21, 2010)

Just learned of this new proposal for a 'biographical passport application' that is so intrusive that I wanted you to know of the outrage that I am experiencing. The questions are invasive and almost impossible to answer which leads me to believe that if the questions aren't answered correctly, there will not be a passport issued. Questions involved are like 'what was your mothers' address one year before your birth'? "What religious ceremonies were conducted at the time of your birth, i.e. baptism, circumcision?' "List all jobs you have had, the dates, supervisors' names, and their telephone numbers.' (This includes working at age 15 at McDonald's I suppose.) This form goes on and on, and quite frankly, it is possibly the greatest infringement on US citizens that I have seen yet. Please search the 'proposed' form, read it over, and give me and all of us here feedback. Why aren't undocumented individuals challenged with this information before they enter? Thank you for any opinions. I think this proposed form is good for discussion.


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## sparks (Jun 17, 2007)

> The questionnaire, boingboing reports, is intended for people seeking a U.S. passport but who cannot supply a birth certificate.


Want a U.S. passport? Were you circumcised? - Travel - Travel Tips - msnbc.com


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## Isabel5 (Aug 21, 2010)

sparks said:


> Want a U.S. passport? Were you circumcised? - Travel - Travel Tips - msnbc.com


It is still ridiculous for someone to even contemplate the intimidation posed in the questions regardless if a birth certificate can be presented or not. Making it difficult for a U.S. citizen to obtain a passport is the issue. To acquire a passport takes 2 pieces of identification--period! Questions on the form are the issue--totally invasive and nearly impossible to answer. Think forward--no passport--no expat!


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## sparks (Jun 17, 2007)

> This form will never apply to the 99.5% of people who apply for a passport using normal, non-forged citizenship and identity documents, such as a previous passport, birth certificate, Consular Report of Birth Abroad, etc.
> 
> And all the random, intrusive questions you don't understand (e.g. people present at birth, info on mother's prenatal care, previous employment)? All designed to catch certain types of citizenship fraud, especially the claim of midwife or unattended birth at home, followed by a false claims to residency in the U.S. Again, crazy questions, but ones that will never be posed to 99.5% of passport applicants.


State Dept adding intrusive, semi-impossible questionnaire for US passport applications - Boing Boing


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## kazslo (Jun 7, 2010)

I stand on the other side of the issue. The government is damned if they do, damned if they don't. If they didn't have this form, and just let anyone sign off that they certify that they themselves were born in the US and therefore should get a passport, people would be shouting how easy a fraudulent claim is. Now that the gov't is considering an in-depth form, its a privacy issue, intruding on our lives.

What do nay-sayers propose we should do to verify individuals who do not have a birth certificate?

Whats the problem with answering the questions to the best of your ability?

Why have these people who don't have birth certificates not have them?


Really, to me, the questions aren't all that bad for what you'll receive (a US passport, and therefore freedom to travel most of the world), and people should be happy they don't have to jump through more hoops to prove their US citizen birth. The questions are great ways to put together a person's history.


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## joaquinx (Jul 3, 2010)

I can only find a few entries from the State Department. One, in particular, is the announcement on 2/24/2011 on the proposed document giving it a 60 day window for user (read US citizens) comment. I can not find the source of the document itself. So I can't say if it is a real proposed document or just made up.

The 60 day window for comment is up today(?). From reading the document and the comments from the State Department, it won't be given to everyone, but those who have a difficult time providing citizenship documents. Perhaps it will be adopted under the name of "Obama Proof of Citizenship Form" :eyebrows:


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## Guest (Apr 27, 2011)

This proposed requirement is mainly aimed at foreign-born individuals born to US citizens who may not have what State deems acceptable proof, and maybe towards those born in the US outside of the medical system, such as a home birth. Once they get this in place, their next logical step will be to require it for everyone.



kazslo said:


> The questions are great ways to put together a person's history.


I do take issue with this, however. The government and too many other people such as banks, credit card companies, credit rating agencies, etc already have too darn much information available at the tappity tap of a computer keyboard, and insufficient control over who can access someone's personal data. 

I will do nothing to help them - they can use Google all they want and find very little that they don't already know. It's none of their darn business, and the #2 reason why I left the US a long time ago. I consider that I have succeeded in many ways, because AARP never mailed me a card and information when I turned 50.


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## kazslo (Jun 7, 2010)

GringoCArlos said:


> I do take issue with this, however. The government and too many other people such as banks, credit card companies, credit rating agencies, etc already have too darn much information available at the tappity tap of a computer keyboard, and insufficient control over who can access someone's personal data.



Well explained, I understand your position. I initially wrote a large response to this, but realized that it all comes down to your own definition of privacy and comfort with your government, and really equates to a political argument, which will never have a definite answer. Nor does any of this have anything to do with Mexico.


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

kazslo said:


> ....Nor does any of this have anything to do with Mexico.


That was my initial reaction as well. However, Mexico probably has more US expats than any other country, and in the other direction a majority of the expats in Mexico are from the US, so this may be as good a place as any to discuss it.


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

I haven't found any place where they explicitly state who will have to fill out this form. However, they estimate about 74,000 people filling it out (per year?). And they issue about 15,000,000 passports/year so it looks like it will not be everyone. I am with Kazslo on this. It seems pretty intrusive but if it is only used in the absence of some other proof of citizenship, maybe it is necessary. I was particularly shocked by the questions about religious ceremonies, but taken in context, it is clear they are looking for some type of documentation of the circumstances of the birth, not some religious vetting process.


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## joaquinx (Jul 3, 2010)

kazslo said:


> Nor does any of this have anything to do with Mexico.


It has a lot to do with us expats as we all have passports.


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## kazslo (Jun 7, 2010)

joaquinx said:


> It has a lot to do with us expats as we all have passports.


Exactly, we've all got passports already so the form wont effect us. It will effect the plans of those who aren't US citizens but fraudulently claim to be and a very small minority of people who have limited documentation about their existence.


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