# How much to renovate?



## Adrofex

Buenas! 

Basically, I'm looking for some advice. I don't need lots of details about forms,etc. I'm simply wondering how much you would estimate it would cost me to renovate this property.

In the next few years I'm planning on opening up my own English school. I'm currently in Galicia and there are a wealth of cheap properties in decent locations that are, more or less, the same size and build as this one.

Do any of you have experience of renovating properties in Spain?

I estimate that a similar property (in two years time) will set me back around 40,000 - 60,000 €.

Thanks for any estimates!


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## nigele2

Adrofex said:


> Buenas!
> 
> Basically, I'm looking for some advice. I don't need lots of details about forms,etc. I'm simply wondering how much you would estimate it would cost me to renovate this property.
> 
> In the next few years I'm planning on opening up my own English school. I'm currently in Galicia and there are a wealth of cheap properties in decent locations that are, more or less, the same size and build as this one.
> 
> Do any of you have experience of renovating properties in Spain?
> 
> I estimate that a similar property (in two years time) will set me back around 40,000 - 60,000 €.
> 
> Thanks for any estimates!


What an interesting and open ended question 

I'm no expert but have done a bit of research and seen a figure of 420 Es per square meter assuming normal house distribution (i.e. habitaciones in proportion to bathrooms and kitchen. 

This assumes good sound construction and average quality materials with no special luxury items.

Depends a lot of course on if your doing it yourself or using local tradesman.

For a small kitchen and bathroom 20 sq. meters we were quoted 15000 Es. So that's 750 Es per meter so that seems to fit as obviously a lounge/bedroom would be much less per meter.

The problem is the budget you set aside for structural issues that are not yet apparent.

Must admit looked at this as a serious proposition (the renovation of a ruin) and glad I saw sense in the end. Life is too short. But it sure as hell would be a great project if your young, enthusiastic and have a shed load of money behind you.

Good luck and do keep us here informed if you push ahead with it 

ps prices mentioned were for Asturias so not far from your ruin


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## brocher

First you need to consider what you have to renovate - very little I'd guess from that picture.

You will have demolition costs to remove and dispose of everything that is not suitable for re-use - i.e. roof, windows, floor and anything else that still remains internally. Pretty much everything except the stone walls - and that is asuming they are structurally sound and have suitable foundations and damp proof course - unlikely!

Even if the walls are sound they will need repointing, and that will pretty much cost the same as building new block walls, so you make no saving by renovating and it may even cost more than new build.

So working on UK costs, which are probably not that different to Spanish costs, you should allow £1000/ m2. If the ground floor is 100m2, you double that figure for the first floor, so you have 200m2 x £1000= £200,000.00

Add costs for professional fees say 15% of builder costs.

Also you need to add for whatever the Spanish equivelant is of Building Warrant and Planning fees and the VAT equivalent (don't know what the renovation rate is in Spain) 

The provision of utilities could also be hefty for an isolated building like the one in your picture.

Don't forget to add another lump for inflation with materials rising alarmingly at the moment.

Not a project to enter lightly. Do your research thoroughly before embarking on something like this.


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## Alcalaina

Some friends of mine renovated a very similar looking ruin near Ortigueira - they couldn't move in for a year, but now they have a dream home. Not sure how much the renovation work cost but it was less than €100k. Labour costs are cheaper in Spain.


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## Guest

Look into zoning issues, permissions, is there electric available, etc.

We just did a job on an empty apartment (just a concrete block, no interior walls) and nigele's figure of 750/sq. meter was correct (kitchen extra). However, take into account we're playing Bilbao prices, I'm certain Galicia is cheaper. 

But please, before getting yourself into a right headache check into zoning issues.


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## jimenato

Alcalaina said:


> Some friends of mine renovated a very similar looking ruin near Ortigueira - they couldn't move in for a year, but now they have a dream home. Not sure how much the renovation work cost but it was less than €100k. Labour costs are cheaper in Spain.


That seems cheap. I would think brocher's figure is nearer.


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## nigele2

jimenato said:


> That seems cheap. I would think brocher's figure is nearer.


It may seem cheap to you jimenato but it doesn't to a Gallego! 

If you work out the figures suggested by brocher the bill would be in excess of 400,000 Es and thus clearly you couldn't even contemplate such a project - yet people do renovate so called 'ruins'. 

The word 'ruin' quite often means 'abandoned' and not 'falling down'. Renovate to me is not the same as rebuild. If you find serious structural damage I'd skip it and move on to the next - there are plenty of 'ruins' to choose from. 

But, and it is a big but, I'd run with a high end budget to ensure that you do not run out of money before you have finished. I remember the owner of one three quarters finished project we considered buying. You could see tears in the owners eyes as he showed us around


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## brocher

Nigele, how did you get my figure up to 400,000 from 200,000?

Also the relevant figure is the price per m2 - we have no idea of the floor area the OP is interested in - my figures of 100m2 are only an example of how to calculate it.

As Nigele says the most important element is the state of the original building. If it is a "ruin" as in the OP's pic, it can be very expensive. If the original building is sound requiring much less work it will obviously cost much less.


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## nigele2

brocher said:


> Nigele, how did you get my figure up to 400,000 from 200,000?
> 
> Also the relevant figure is the price per m2 - we have no idea of the floor area the OP is interested in - my figures of 100m2 are only an example of how to calculate it.
> 
> As Nigele says the most important element is the state of the original building. If it is a "ruin" as in the OP's pic, it can be very expensive. If the original building is sound requiring much less work it will obviously cost much less.


The OP did give us the full details. Even the fact it has electricity and water.

Apologies if my maths led to a little over counting but you quoted in pounds and I was talking about project cost - including purchase.

But as you said not a project to take lightly. I think the main thing is to select the property carefully and be willing to invest in a full structural survey and despite the cost be willing to walk away.


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## gus-lopez

It's only worth doing if you are going to do it yourself. Around here in the good times they charged 550€ M2 regardless of what was being constructed. Material prices are lower here now than they were in the boom period as no one is buying them. Probably be going up now after the earthquake. :nonono:
I renovated this house of 144m2 , plus 2 outbuildings ( 60m2 ) & various other bits & pieces for less than 40k €'s. This included construction of 2 additional bedrooms & another bathroom in the old pigeon house which is completely attached to the main house . A new roof,wiring & plumbing ,A/c, windows ,doors , etc; etc; etc. Everything . The only original parts left are the walls & floor tiles in lounge , hallway & one bedroom. We did everything in the 1st two years & I still have nightmares. I've just remembered that nearly 5% of that went to my neighbours brother to plaster 200m2 in the new part which was the only thing I didn't do.


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## nigele2

gus-lopez said:


> It's only worth doing if you are going to do it yourself. .........


Gus that certainly was a very tight budget. I guess you are a man of many talents 

As for doing it yourself it can save money but of course for someone like me it might end up costing far more  As I said I flirted with the idea but am glad I decided against.

In the north at the moment you can get electricians, plumbers, builders, etc. to work at very low rates and fixed price. And of course all cash and no VAT. I had rewiring with extra power points and wall lights done fully inclusive of parts, for less than 350Es. That included the re-plastering of all the wall channels. The problem was keeping on top of the guys to keep the job going. I had the builder call me several times saying that the electrician had either failed to turn up as agreed or who hadn't finished his bit. Manana exists in the north as well as the south 

But hopefully the earthquake has not left you with too much to do.


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## Adrofex

Thanks to everyone for the useful advice and estimates!

My wife and I would be doing a lot of the work ourselves (pretty much everything that doesn't involve machinery or electrical/plumbing skills).

I agree that it would cost a pretty penny to renovate this kind of building, but I think it's worth it! 

I'll be saving money over the next two to three years and will decide on whether to go forward with this at that point (depending on how much we've managed to save).

I'll keep you all posted with developments as they arise.

Thanks again,


Adrian.


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## gus-lopez

nigele2 said:


> Gus that certainly was a very tight budget. I guess you are a man of many talents
> 
> As for doing it yourself it can save money but of course for someone like me it might end up costing far more  As I said I flirted with the idea but am glad I decided against.
> 
> In the north at the moment you can get electricians, plumbers, builders, etc. to work at very low rates and fixed price. And of course all cash and no VAT. I had rewiring with extra power points and wall lights done fully inclusive of parts, for less than 350Es. That included the re-plastering of all the wall channels. The problem was keeping on top of the guys to keep the job going. I had the builder call me several times saying that the electrician had either failed to turn up as agreed or who hadn't finished his bit. Manana exists in the north as well as the south
> 
> But hopefully the earthquake has not left you with too much to do.


The amount of work needed in Lorca should ensure that there's no one unemployed !


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## djhep

Hi.....
Not sure if this helps, but i just had my place renovated in Southern Spain.
Approx original size 160m2, and covered 3 storeys. 
Now approx 200m2.

The structure was sound, but was only single skin wall construction.

The property was pretty much stripped to the shell and had:-

New internal walls added throughout including insulation in cavity
New double storey extension (approx 40m2)
New double glazed aluminium windows, 
New external and internal doors
New kitchen fitted
2 x new bathrooms fitted, 
New wood floors layed throughout
garge floor relayed and new ceiling fitted
new upstairs terrace built into roof, 
downstairs terrace completely renovated, 
New bedroom added over existing terrace
new electrics, 
new plumbing (including solar water heating and solar ventilation systems), 
new a/c units fitted.
Painting internal and external
New guttering and rejas
Structural walls removed in garage and living area to increase space.
Stair rebuilt at sensible angle

Cost to buy was 112,000 euros including taxes
Cost to renovate including project management 112,000 euros.

I would recommend adding at least 100% to the time estimated for building to completion, and 30% to the estimated costs. 

If you go ahead, good luck and most of all try to enjoy the experience.

All the best .

Dave.


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## nigele2

djhep said:


> Hi.....
> Not sure if this helps, but i just had my place renovated in Southern Spain.
> Approx original size 160m2, and covered 3 storeys.
> Now approx 200m2.
> 
> The structure was sound, but was only single skin wall construction.
> 
> The property was pretty much stripped to the shell and had:-
> 
> New internal walls added throughout including insulation in cavity
> New double storey extension (approx 40m2)
> New double glazed aluminium windows,
> New external and internal doors
> New kitchen fitted
> 2 x new bathrooms fitted,
> New wood floors layed throughout
> garge floor relayed and new ceiling fitted
> new upstairs terrace built into roof,
> downstairs terrace completely renovated,
> New bedroom added over existing terrace
> new electrics,
> new plumbing (including solar water heating and solar ventilation systems),
> new a/c units fitted.
> Painting internal and external
> New guttering and rejas
> Structural walls removed in garage and living area to increase space.
> Stair rebuilt at sensible angle
> 
> Cost to buy was 112,000 euros including taxes
> Cost to renovate including project management 112,000 euros.
> 
> I would recommend adding at least 100% to the time estimated for building to completion, and 30% to the estimated costs.
> 
> If you go ahead, good luck and most of all try to enjoy the experience.
> 
> All the best .
> 
> Dave.


Dave very interesting. That comes to 560 Es a meter but was almost a rebuild with a 40 meter extension and terrace so the lower end figures in the thread look very achievable. I'm almost talking myself into having a go  

You say includes PM. Was that an employed individual or did you use a company?

And could you give us an idea of how long it took and how much waiting around, if any, with little progress?

Hope you're enjoying your castle in the sun


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## djhep

Hi Nigele2.

The project management was done by an individual on a part time basis.
This worked well in that it takes alot of the day to day worries off your shoulders.
You would definitely need someone that can be trusted though.

It was my experience that things took alot longer than promised by the builders etc.
If they get other work, then they will drop your job and move temporarily onto that.

One way around this would seem to be by getting a fixed time scale from the builder, and incurring time penalties if the project overuns.
Unfortunately this just isn't practical in the real world. 
Any changes that you make along the way (there will be many if my experience is anything to go by) will be blamed for holding things up.

Also in order to do this it would be necessary to have all the work done by the same company. ie, electrics, plumbing, carpentry, roofing etc. 
If not then the different disciplines will blame each other for hold ups.

At the end of the day, i'm very pleased with the end result, but i can't stress strongly enough that things will take MUCH longer than initially expected.
Timescale for mine start to finish........... approx 18 months 

Hope this all helps, and if you need any more info please do ask.

Cheers.

Dave.


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## nigele2

Muchas gracias Dave.

I am getting more tempted the more I think about it. Luckily if we went this route it would be near where we already have a flat in Asturias so our own base would help I think. And my wife and family are Spanish which can be useful 

Appreciate 18 months is a while but the fact you're pleased with the result and presumably it is just what you wanted 

But I'm getting ahead of myself. My wife still prefers (but only just) the UK with winter in the Islas, and I need to renovate the UK home first whether we stay or go


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## Yozhik

We're in the Pinoso/Yecla area.
Have just had architects in drawing up plans, with the builder at his side.
Was told that a new build is approx. €600/m² and a renovation approx. €350m².
That is what they described as being a 'basic' build.
Obviously, depending on your choices and personal preferences, you can go north of those figures.


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## Megsmum

what a shame original OP never updated would have been intresting


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