# Moving to Mexico; FM-T, FM3, Vehicle importation & insurance.



## tumbleweeds

We'll be heading to Michoacan in April and decided to live there for the first six months or so on a tourist visa before making the commitment to apply for an FM-3. I know that immigration states that you can't bring "household belongings" into Mexico with a FM-T, so my question is, does anyone know just what is considered household belongings? I'm assuming that clothing, sheets, towels, CD's, pots and pans, etc. would be permissible. But what about a stereo receiver, a desk-top computer, DVD player, and any other items (excluding furniture, which I know would be considered household belongings!)? What would be allowed and what wouldn't? If it matters, we'll probably be entering the country from Brownsville, TX, and will be heading to the Patzcuaro area. 

Thanks in advance!


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## RVGRINGO

If you are driving into Mexico and get your FMT for 180 days, you will probably not have any difficulty in bringing in the items you mentioned. Most people do exactly that and, as long as you don't have new items, especially electronics, you will probably escape any duty; especially if you get the green light at customs.
Don't forget to get the 'importada temporal' for your car and to apply for your FM3 at least 30 days before the FMT is to expire.
You will enjoy the summer in Michoacan, a beautiful state, although the winters are a bit too chilly for most retirees.


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## tumbleweeds

RVGringo, we've been living for the past 2 years in Malaysia and believe me, a cool winter is just what we need! 

What I'm hearing, then, is that as long as we make it through the border crossing, we should be fine - in other words, when passing through the various military checkpoints on the way down there, no one will be concerned with whether we are bringing household belongings with us or not, correct?

Thanks!


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## RVGRINGO

Not at all. The military checkpoints are looking for drugs, arms, ammunition and bad guys.
Try a winter in Michoacan before you consider buying. Unheated homes are not comfortable and heating is very expensive.


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## tumbleweeds

We're lucky - my brother owns a house there and we'll be care-taking it for him since he's living in the US now - it's got 2 fireplaces (and lots of free wood) and radiant heat, so it should be nice and toasty. I was there a couple of years ago and was surprised at how many homes in that area don't have heat - yes, it does get cold there, and the house is a bit over 7400 feet, so it's even colder there than in Patzcuaro.

OK then, guess we'll just hope for the green light at the border! Thanks for your help!


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## floridagal

I see this thread is from February but it's the right 'area' for this question:

How difficult is it to obtain a FM-3 after staying in Mexico for several months on a FM-T? I really don't want to drive four hours to the nearest consulate here in FL - twice - just to save a little effort unless it's going to be a major hassle there.

I want to bring just a van-full of my own used household goods - stuff I need to live & do my net work with, nothing new or exciting, and would love to have a 'green light' at the border as most people would, I'm sure.

Thanks for any helpful insights into this - just another thing I need to take care of.

Currently, all I need to get the FM-T would be: a valid driver's license, a passport, automobile registration, mexican insurance, and what else?

Do I need the physical address of my temporary home where I'm going, as well, or even more like a utility bill or proof of rental or what?

Thanks so much,

Donna


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## RVGRINGO

Most people apply for the FM3 in Mexico. The only reason that you would really need to do it in the USA would be if you were shipping furniture and needed a 'menaje de casa'. Otherwise, driving with 'used stuff for your rental' is seldom a problem if everything is obviously used.
Your automobile registration and license are needed for the temporary importation of your vehicle, not an FM3 application which will require your passport, birth certificate, FMT with 30 days left, proof of residence and proof of sufficient income from abroad to support yourself; some $1000-1300 USD per month, proven by bank statements for the past three months immediately before your application.


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## floridagal

Cool, thanks for your prompt reply as always - wish ALL forum moderators were as "on top of it" as you are RVG! 

No furniture will be traveling except maybe a small computer desk that I can take apart & will be nearly flat in a box and a couple of folding stools.


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## BryansRose

I'll share my recent experience with you (I came in about 3 months ago):

I came in with a desktop computer, things "needed for my rental", and a box full of books and DVDs. I got a green light, and sailed through without a problem. 

If you google Sandborn's Insurance (they provide insurance in Mexico) they have some information on what you are allowed to bring across the border. I've seen the same type of list a couple other places. Laptop computers are okay;desktop computers are not. There is a limit on DVD's, books, etc. Linens, stuff "needed for your rental" are okay. There supposedly is a dollar limit, too, to the value of stuff you bring in. 

I came in on an FMT and applied for my FM-3 about a week later. Took about 3 weeks to get, in San Luis Potosi. I'm currently waiting for my "household goods" to arrive.


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## floridagal

Thanks for your upbeat post - my question is why are they so weird about desktop computers? No different than a laptop except they are faster and hold more data... I need it for my internet job - it's _not_ a luxury item - it's old and outdated. 

What would they *do* with it if someone got a red light? I can't afford to lose all those years of work and paid data inside... not to mention family photos and other 'treasures' only important to me.

Thanks,
Donna


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## AdePuebla

I came in through Nogales over a year ago on an FMT. well i didn't even have the FMT yet when i went through... whatever office it is that checks your stuff. the first thing i did was park, and the guy came over and we had a pick up truck with the little camper thing on the back part and i had it FULL of stuff. i ihad a desk top computer, a laptop, a tv, printer, dvd player, dvds, and household items, like dishes, clothes, blender, toaster etc. i made a list and put what i thought was a good price? total i had down like $400 USD and told them it was all household items. they didn't even look at the list, they just asked what it was worth, i told them $400 USD and they charged me 400 pesos i believe and gave me a receipt which i didn't use. Then after that, i went over to the immigration office and got my FMT. i've been on FMTs since then. Using the 6 months experation as an excuse to go home and visit family. will have to get an fm3 eventually. about how much money you should have to ge tthe fm3.... i have a friend who got hers with a family of four and all the money they had was her husband making 1500 pesos a week. i've heard that it all depends on the state or city or office you apply in. 

I really doubt they would take your computer away, they might just charge you a tax on it? not sure, but to be safe you should back up your computer on an external hard drive.


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## BryansRose

From what I could learn, a laptop is portable, making it a tourist item, while a desktop is not portable, so it's household goods. 

I needed mine, not for work, but for communication. It's how I keep in touch with friends and family. Also, it's a lot of my entertainment. The best information that I got was that if I got a red light, I'd have to pay duty on it. BUT... to do the red light/green light thing, you have to enter the lane for "nothing to declare", so I was also prepared to play dumb and not know that I couldn't bring my computer in.

If you go "nothing to declare" and are searched and they find stuff, it could be confiscated along with your car, is what I have been told. So I was a bit worried, but took the chance.

It seems that there is no place to get official information on this subject. It's all word of mouth. So I can share my experience, but I won't swear any of what I say is official, accurate info.


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## floridagal

Thank you AdePuebla & BryansRose, you pretty much answered my question - as best as you could - so I get the idea that I should declare that I have a dollar value of household goods rather than chance confiscation because they don't want to see a grown grandmother break down and bawl her eyes out right then and there.

I've worked too hard on the stuff that's on my computers and even with it backed up, that's a lot of money down the drain AND countless YEARS in hours of work if they confiscated my computer - I could not live with that.

IF you declare stuff and pay their fees, does that guarantee you can keep your things? As long as they are legal goods, I mean - as I would NEVER bring anything in that was not!

Thanks again,
Donna


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## AdePuebla

it's a lot easier to just pay 40 bucks then to go through the hassle of having to empty out your automobile and have them search through your stuff. Since I declared and they kinda just peaked in the back, I didn't have to go throug any green light red light thing. So i think if you declare you should be all good. I dont know where you are crossing but I think Nogales is the best and safest place to cross. and once we paid and left nogales, there were only two stop points we crossed, one was checking to make sure our car was legal, and the other was a check to make sure we weren't bringing and weapons or drugs. 

I dont want to hear about any grandma bawling her eyes out either!


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## floridagal

AdePuebla, I totally agree as I'm just wanting a peaceful, hassle-free trip. I don't mind paying, it helps support a beautiful country that I hope to make my home.

My driving companion (I found one - yippee) has his own favorite crossing and it's closer to where I'll be coming from... and he's been such a great resource for advice too.

I've already had so much stress making this decision that I don't need ANYTHING to make me break down. I've given away a lifetime of possessions already and I'm just ready to settle down and live a peaceful life helping others as I can, along the way.

What I've learned since January would already fill a book about retiring to Mexico... lol. Maybe I'll write it one day. I'd like to earn enough money to buy a nice little house or two to use for snowbird/vacationer rentals down the road when I get the rest of my obligations tended to. Ahh... the stuff of dreams......


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## AdePuebla

Well I wish you a hassle free-trip! And glad you found a travel companion, since driving alone would be tough! 

I agree, no more stress needed. it's hard enough moving, let alone to another country!


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## BryansRose

floridagal, I'm glad to hear you are coming! And having a driving companion is great. I was prepared to drive from Chicago alone, but a friend insisted on going with me. Now, I don't know how I would have done it without her. That said, now that I've made the trip, I have no qualms about driving up to Laredo on my own for some shopping.


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## floridagal

Thank you - my mind is made up - and I'm so excited - just wish I had a home to rent, instead of depending on temporary housing that's tourist-priced but all will work out as it should. I am trusting the Universe totally on this one.

I didn't want to do it alone, not ONE TEENSY IOTA, even tho I could have if necessary - but having a bilingual companion who can drive, teach me Spanish and knows the country is priceless.

Everything is falling into place........ right down to the teeny, nitty gritty stuff now. WOO HOO!

Now if I could just hear from my friends in Chapala who "fell off the grid" about two weeks ago............ *sigh*


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## sparks

A laptop is a travelling and business computer ... often necessary. Desktops are more likely to be imported. Electronics are generally cheaper in the US so it's a market issue


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## floridagal

Thanks Sparks... that makes it make more sense. Well, in order to keep my "baby" I've had for five years now, I'll be happy to pay the tariff if they want me to, just to be able to use her.


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## emptyhandedtraveler

I was in Mexico for the month of March, getting an FMT at the border. I would like to go back before the FMT ends (August), but if I do not make it by then, how do I get back into Mexico? How often can I enter with an FMT? I originally planned to be moved out of the Florida house before August, enter MX again, then apply for an FM3, and then bring the household goods down. But if I do not make it back there until say, September, are they going to allow me to enter? And, if so, what type of visa will I need? Thanks for any help.

Martha


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## AdePuebla

Well you are supposed to turn your FMT in when you leave Mexico. When you come back to Mexico, they give you a new FMT. You can come into Mexico as many times as you want, getting a new FMT every time. 
I brought in a truck full of household goods on an FMT. i've been here for over a year and a half on FMTs (leaving every six months for a couple weeks then coming back to get a new FMT)


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## RVGRINGO

The FMT is a single entry document and when you leave Mexico, it becomes invalid. AdePuebla is correct; you get a new one when you re-enter. Technically, you are permitted up to 180 days per year but enforcement is lax, although it has been used to keep out 'questionable people'. If you are actually going to stay in Mexico, there are advantages to getting an FM3.


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## emptyhandedtraveler

Thank you both for your able help. I was reading about the other visas and got confused for a moment. Thanks for straightening that up for me. I cannot wait to get finished with organizing and packing, and return to beautiful Mexico. I am probably going to be staying at the west end of Lake Chapala in an RV park. I hope to find some vacant land after I get there. I have a big yellow labrador who loves to run, and it would be nice to grow things, also. 

I love it when you talk about the weather. In the last 2-3 weeks, we have had some record-breaking temperatures (over 100!) plus it is very humid. I am looking forward very much to my return.

Thanks again,
Martha


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## RVGRINGO

The weather can be described easily: Perfect!


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## HolyMole

AdePuebla said:


> Well you are supposed to turn your FMT in when you leave Mexico. When you come back to Mexico, they give you a new FMT. You can come into Mexico as many times as you want, getting a new FMT every time.
> I brought in a truck full of household goods on an FMT. i've been here for over a year and a half on FMTs (leaving every six months for a couple weeks then coming back to get a new FMT)


You are describing a way of life that was typical for expats residing in Mexico a decade and more ago, but a lifestyle that computerization in Mexico was supposed to eliminate.

"Good on you", I say, if you can get away with it. I'm sure that Mexican Immigration would consider it an abuse of the purpose of a tourist card.

Personally I consider the FM3 an unnecessarily complicated process designed primarily to bring in more dollars to the Mexican treasury. One would think that Mexico would be doing everything it can to make it as easy as possible for retiree expats, rather than the other way 'round. You only have to look at the tremendous increase in the number of expats choosing Panama and Costa Rica, both of which make it easier for expat retirees than does Mexico. Given Mexico's bad press due to the incredible levels of crime associated with the drug trade, there's another reason for Mexico to reach out to expat retirees. 

My wife and I would try the "perpetual FMT" route for permanent residence in Mexico if it weren't for the possibility that we would get caught and asked to leave the country. If, in the meantime, we had sold our Canadian residence, that's a recipe for disaster.


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## RVGRINGO

An FMT is really for the visiting tourist or the 'snowbird', etc. To really live in Mexico and be able to buy a home, a car, get utilities, have IMSS medical, start the clock for 'inmigrado' or naturalization, etc., you need an FM3 or FM2.


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## floridagal

With the FM-T, don't you *have* to go back to the border every six months? That alone would be a good reason to get the FM3 or FM2, but the tourist one is great to 'test the waters' and see if it's really a viable place to retire.

Very soon, it will be a reality for me - I wish I knew if anyone was caravaning back to Chapala around the end of July... but I am just trusting God that all will be well, regardless, and the journey will be a beautiful chapter in my life. 

Can't wait to meet all the people in here that live in 'lakeside' so I can put faces to all the fantastic personalities. 

See you all SOON,
Donna


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## Turk

Floridagal where are you crossing the border and what day? My wife and are crossing at Laredo our target is 29th or 30th July. If everything works out here in Missouri. We are headed Lakeside.


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## floridagal

Sooo close yet so far away - I can't leave FL until the 29th and doubt I can make that 1100 mile drive in one day, even with a driving companion that would be too grueling - so we'll miss one another by two days... DRAT!

I spent 31 years of my life in Kansas so can relate to your beautiful Missouri....

It would sure feel safer to have others to travel with. I got a great tip from a gal who does it frequently and she said to stay at the hotels that are considered houses of ill repute (to put it more delicately than she did) because they have secure garages to park inside of that lock down at night. Cool tip, huh?

Donna


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## RVGRINGO

Look at your map. No need to go to Laredo. Plot your route to Weslaco, TX, down FM 1015 to Nuevo Progresso, TAM.( which may not even show on your map), a great daytime crossing with everything in one place, including an ATM and a bank across the street from customs/immigration. Go south through town, pass the 'cuota' and take Rt. 2 west (right turn) past Rio Bravo to Reynosa and intersect 97 south toward San Fernando. That will take you to 101 and Cuidad Victoria. Spend the night there, downtown (Centro) at the Hotel Sierra Gorda with secure parking and A/C, or one of the more expensive hotels with a bigger name; also on the main square. Gas up in the morning and head toward San Luis Potosi, passing it toward Lagos de Moreno, Guadalajara and Chapala. It is a nice, direct route and will save a lot in tolls, though much of the travel is on four lane highways. The scenery is fantastic!
The motels you refer to are often called 'no tell motels' and may be found on the outskirts of a city of any size. They are for short stays, no more than 12 hours, without the need for a key because you don't go out for supper. The cars are discreetly hidden in each room's private garage or carport. The TV programs can be........stimulating. They are less expensive than normal hotels and are usually spotless and very secure. People traveling with pets often use them because no questions are ever asked (Mexicans don't travel with pets and hotels/motels really don't want them.). Some of them have a lazy susan in the wall which allows you to order food or certain toys or necessary accouterments. They aren't 'houses of ill repute' and you are expected to bring your own; it is a 'macho' thing.


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## elchante

FloridaGal, you just need to relax. i drove down here last year by myself with all my worldly possessions packed in the bed of my pickup, covered only by an easily removeable tarp. 

i crossed the border in douglas, arizona, so that i had almost twice as much driving in mexico as you will have. my spanish was pretty much non-existent at the time (not that it's a whole lot better now). i knew no one in mexico. 

i made it with no problems and had a great trip. 

i've only been here for 15 months, but i can tell you that having a relaxed attitude and a good sense of humor is vital. things will often not happen the way you expect them to here. you need to be able to accept that. 

stay excited and enthused about your journey, but seriously, try to relax.


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## Turk

Floridagal if you leave Florida on the 29th when do you think you will hit Lardeo? We are about 900 miles from Laredo here in Missouri. We are flexible in our departure, when we get to Lardeo we plan on spending the night and crossing the border early in the morning. Let me know your schedule it would be GREAT if we could get together in Lardeo and make the trip together. :clap2: 

Turk


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## floridagal

*RVGringo* - Since Weslaco is about 200 miles out of my way, would you still highly recommend that route over Laredo? I want the best possible and most comfortable and safest route as I would with any trip, anywhere...

Thank you for correcting me on the name of the garaged 'no-tell hotels' - I like that name. I didn't mean to call it incorrectly, just didn't want to use the "w" word in the forum. 

*ElChante* - you are one BRAVE person -- and you're right, I *do* need to relax in a big way -- I've been far too 'wound up' for my own health's sake over all the many little details that need to be taken care of regarding this journey. 

Presently, all the Spanish I know would fit in a thimble, and I have the CDs to listen to, but so much else is also simultaneously going on in my life that I have trouble concentrating on anything. Anyway, thanks for your sage advice and reassurance, I do appreciate it a lot and will put it to work.

*Turk* That sounds like a good idea, as long as we agree on which route we are taking and we can read each other's minds as to when we wanna take a pit stop, etc. I would prefer that we email one another for any more definite type plans, though, if that's ok with you. Mine's deadeasysupport [AT] gmail [dotcom] and I'll have yours once you email me. 

Martha, I hope you'll look me up (or I can look you up) once I'm down there... and anyone else living lakeside. I'm getting more and more stoked about it as the day draws nearer and nearer. (I'm tired of the horrific heat & humidity too!)

Everyone have a super week!


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## RVGRINGO

If you are coming from Florida, Weslaco isn't 'out of the way'. From Houston, take 59 to Victoria and 77 to Harlingen, then 83 to Weslaco and FM1015 to Nuevo Progressso. It is four lane highway all the way. The border crossing is in a very nice small border town with great restaurants and everything located at one stop at the foot of the bridge; much easier than Laredo or even Reynosa, etc.


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## MexicoGolfer62

I'm not sure the difference between a laptop and desktop computer except for the amount of storage, typically type of data stored and obviously the difference in electricity needed and amount of space used. I have heard of people having "household goods" that they used for "work purposes" that ended up passing alot easier then things that were more luxury based or things that were used more for personal use. I hope this helps!


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## floridagal

Thanks MexicoGolfer - appreciate your input. My computers are definitely for work purposes, but one isn't exactly allowed "household goods" on an FM-T are they?


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## floridagal

RV - Does the time of day have anything to do with crossing at Progreso? I know it's said in this and other related forums that you should cross Laredo at 06:30 AM (I'm not a 'morning' person by any stretch) and I was curious if this admonition also applied at Progreso?

I bet the scenery in Mexico is beautiful regardless of the route... especially compared to Florida inland....... mostly trees and no mountains anywhere.


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## RVGRINGO

Nuevo Progresso is a small town and the offices you will need are only open in the daytime, unlike large crossings which may operate 24 hours per day.


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## MexicoGolfer62

The moderator is right, small border crossings have hours of operation it seems. If you are worried about getting goods across I know they check less frequently or are less strict at larger border crossings during peak times. I only know this coming accross border crossings like Nogales or TJ


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## El Toro Furioso

First, everything should be backed up. This should already be the case anyway. Second, it isn't that immigration is going to take your computer away from you, it is just that they may try to charge you a few dollars of duty. You'll still have your old desktop either way.


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## RVGRINGO

El Toro Furioso is correct; laptops are permitted without duty but desktops are dutiable. So, it may be permitted if obviously old and part of your household goods 'for your rental' if you are on an FMT. However, if the total value of your goods exceeds the current limit for your area (yes, they differ) they may make an estimate of the overage and charge you duty on that amount. It is likely that they would start with computers and electronics as they are easier to identify and value than your used clothing. Customs in Mexico is very lenient and very generous in almost every case. However, they can make life both difficult and expensive if you 'show a little attitude'. Once you cross the border, you are completely subject to Mexican laws and customs; no others.


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## floridagal

RVG - thanks! Sounds pretty simple. No worries about showing attitude, I've always found you get a lot more kindness & compassion back from others if that's what you express. The opposite is also true. ;-)

I was just hoping that I could bring a few personal items in on an FM-T and everyone in here has been very helpful in that regard. Actual experience always beats reading a rule page online. 

Have a great weekend!
Donna


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## RVGRINGO

Years ago, when we first moved to Mexico, we loaded the SUV, filled a rooftop pod and towed a UHaul trailer as far as Laredo, where we emptied the trailer into a storage unit and turned it in. We continued to Mexico, got a red light but when a door was opened and things fell out, they decided that repacking would be near impossible. We were simply asked what was in the pod. Weeks later, we returned for the stuff in the Laredo storage unit and just drove in via the 'nothing to declare' lane with more clothes, books and miscellaneous goods. At the interior checkpoint, they simply check your vehicle 'importada' and may glance at your immigration document and the contents of the vehicle. Never a problem for us.


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## MexicoGolfer62

Great story RVgringo, I love hearing about peoples' ventures south!


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## El Toro Furioso

Hi. I see your posts all the time. Where exactly do you live in Mexico mi expat compadre?


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## Joycee

RVGRINGO said:


> An FMT is really for the visiting tourist or the 'snowbird', etc. To really live in Mexico and be able to buy a home, a car, get utilities, have IMSS medical, start the clock for 'inmigrado' or naturalization, etc., you need an FM3 or FM2.


Sorry I joined this discussion late. As I indicated before, I am making preparations to move to Mexico, hopefully within the next 6 months. I am married to a Mexican who also has US citizenship. What is the best way for me to enter Mexico, a FM3 or FM2 or is there a better option for me?

Thanks
Joycee


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## RVGRINGO

Your husband will enter on his Mexican passport. You may enter on an FMT and then discuss your options with INM at your liesure. You will have 150 of the 180 days to apply, perhaps as his dependent or possibly on your own resources. The FM2, though more expensive to apply and renew, will allow you to apply to be naturalized in only two years as the wife of a citizen. On the FM2, there is a category for 'Inmigrante Familiar' as a dependent relative of a Mexican. Of course, you could apply at the Mexican Consulate nearest your present home in the USA, if that is convenient or if you will require a 'menaje de casa' in order to ship a load of household goods commercially, using a broker.


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## Joycee

Thank you RV ******. Excuse my ignorance on these matters but I take it I would need an FM2 in order for my husband and me to transport or ship household goods to Mexico. 

Joycee


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## El Toro Furioso

Joycee said:


> Thank you RV ******. Excuse my ignorance on these matters but I take it I would need an FM2 in order for my husband and me to transport or ship household goods to Mexico.
> 
> Joycee


You would need an FM2 or FM3 to transport household goods to Mexico. You need to do this within 6 months of acquiring the visa to avoid paying duty. Alternately you could arrange for moving through an expediter, in which case you will still pay no duty even if the deadline has passed. Either way, you will need the FM3 or FM2.


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## Joycee

Thank you El Toro Furioso. Where does one find an expeditor?
Joycee


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## maesonna

Joycee said:


> Thank you RV ******. Excuse my ignorance on these matters but I take it I would need an FM2 in order for my husband and me to transport or ship household goods to Mexico.
> Joycee


No, you can still enter on an FMT, while your husband imports your household goods as a Mexican national. Been there, done that.


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## asegbert

*Confused about the car process*

:confused2:

I'm about to move down to Mexico and I'm driving through the Laredo entry point. I've gotten SUCH conflicting information about what I will need in order to travel down there with my car.

I'm only purchasing the car about a week before going down there - which is problem #1, because I'm not sure the title transfer will be complete. Then I don't know if I should keep the car registered here or in Mexico. I understand the process about getting the permit at the border. But if I get down there and switch from an FMT to an FM3, do I still have to keep going back up to the border to renew my car permit? I'll be down in Queretaro for at least a year, maybe more.

Also, do I change my registration to Mexico? I've heard that American insurance isn't valid in Mexico - so do I need Mexican insurance? And what are the steps to get it?

Lastly, I've read the posts about bringing things like TV's across. I want to bring a TV with me - and I think I'm understanding that it is best to go through the line to declare it and pay for it there. I don't think I will exceed the $300 rule that I've heard about. So is up to that free of duty?

Thanks and I appreciate any and all information about this process! I had no idea it was so complicated


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## BryansRose

Yes, you need insurance. You can buy it online from Sandborn's. I found them to be reasonable, and you can print out your polcy before you leave. And you may have to keep your US insurance current for your license plates to be legal. 

Once you get your FM-3, your car is okay. You don't have to go back to the border. As long as you have an FM-3, your car is legal. Although I know people who have been stopped, and the police don't know the law. I don't have the website address handy right now, but some people print out a copy of the law in Spanish and English to hand to cops who say their car permit is no good. 

Registering a US car in Mexico is, I've been told, very expensive. Like, thousands of dollars. I haven't tried, so I can only say that's what I've been told when I asked around about it. And you are supposed to keep your US registration current, which for some states can be a pain. 

I came through Laredo last March, with no problem. I didn't have a TV, but I did have a desktop computer with me. I decided to chance it with the red light/green light, got a green, and went on through.


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## sparks

asegbert said:


> :confused2:
> 
> I'm only purchasing the car about a week before going down there - which is problem #1, because I'm not sure the title transfer will be complete. Then I don't know if I should keep the car registered here or in Mexico. I understand the process about getting the permit at the border. But if I get down there and switch from an FMT to an FM3, do I still have to keep going back up to the border to renew my car permit? I'll be down in Queretaro for at least a year, maybe more.
> 
> Also, do I change my registration to Mexico? I've heard that American insurance isn't valid in Mexico - so do I need Mexican insurance? And what are the steps to get it?
> 
> Lastly, I've read the posts about bringing things like TV's across. I want to bring a TV with me - and I think I'm understanding that it is best to go through the line to declare it and pay for it there. I don't think I will exceed the $300 rule that I've heard about. So is up to that free of duty?
> :


You don't need the Title but you need a real and clear Registration

Once you get an FM3 your permit is good as long as you are

Keep the car registered in the US and get Mexican auto insurance
My suggestion
Mexico Auto Insurance Mexican Insurance

You are allowed to bring whatever you might use in a six month stay but better if it is used and not new in the box. When you pass customs you will either get a red or green light. Red light means they will look in the car - say nothing


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## El Toro Furioso

It isn't complicated, it is easy. This advice about keeping your car registered in the States is confusing though, depending on the state your car is registered in. For example, I kept my car registered in New York but I cancelled the $750 USD per year insurance policy. New York state immediately suspended my driver's license. Many other states have similar laws, though some like Colorado allow you to temporarily suspend your insurance while staying registered. Find out what your state's regulations are before you cancel that NoB insurance policy. If you don't like the idea of paying hundreds of dollars a year for essentially useless insurance, consider registering your car in Clay County South Dakota (google for web site). They require insurance but don't say from which state (or country) it must be. They will mail your new plates and registration anywhere you say, including to Mexico. You will be legal both in Mexico and in the US without wasting your money on US insurance. It costs about $35 per year. Keep your home state insurance, if need be, in force until you mail the old plates back to the DMV. Then only buy temporary NoB insurance if/when you drive north.


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## RVGRINGO

Note that the South Dakota website is only used to get the application form and the damage declaration form. You must telephone Clay County, SD in order to register. Please do not attempt to use any other county or to contact the SD DMV directly. Only Clay County provides this service.


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## BryansRose

Regarding keeping US insurance... I decreased my coverage to carry only the minimum required by Illinois law. It reduced the premiums quite a bit. Just another idea.


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## El Toro Furioso

The minimum required by New York State came to well over $600/year for...nothing, exactly nothing. The car spent the whole time in Mexico insured under Mexican insurance. Why would I throw away any money on that. Plus, as registration/inspection comes up for renewal I would have had to drive back to New York to do that or drive here with expired registration.


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## sparks

My first year I used the "storage" option that I could switch with an 800# phone call at the border. Cost went from $600+/- to $65


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## BryansRose

If you are planning on driving back to the US, even to Laredo for shopping, you'll need US insurance again. That's one reason why some of us keep at least a minimal US insurance. Maybe someone here in the forum knows how to get temporary insurance coverage for driving in the US. 

Sparks, I'm going to look into that "storage" option. Sounds like a good idea.


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## El Toro Furioso

BryansRose said:


> If you are planning on driving back to the US, even to Laredo for shopping, you'll need US insurance again. That's one reason why some of us keep at least a minimal US insurance. Maybe someone here in the forum knows how to get temporary insurance coverage for driving in the US.


We buy temporary US insurance, liability and collision (important), from Parker/Berg in Riberas del Pilar on Lake Chapala. The company they represent in Texas sells in 30-day increments only and it came to almost $200 for the 30 days the last time we went north (last April). We were only in the US for 4 days, so it cost about $50/day, but hey you have to have it. Many Mexican companies, we hear, sell US insurance, but liability only, no collision. Not a great idea IMHO.


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## El Toro Furioso

Joycee said:


> Thank you El Toro Furioso. Where does one find an expeditor?
> Joycee


When you are ready, I'll send you the name and address of a very good one in Laredo. You don't personally have to cross in the same town, but it is easier if you do since otherwise all the paperwork has to be done in the mail.


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## asegbert

El Toro Furioso said:


> The minimum required by New York State came to well over $600/year for...nothing, exactly nothing. The car spent the whole time in Mexico insured under Mexican insurance. Why would I throw away any money on that. Plus, as registration/inspection comes up for renewal I would have had to drive back to New York to do that or drive here with expired registration.


I agree - I called my insurance company and asked what the bare minimum coverage would cost me - it was $600! And of course, it did NOTHING for me, other than keep my registration and plates for me. I do think that I can do only the Mexican insurance and stay legal in Texas though - I'm checking into that.

Also, my insurance company said that the "storage" option was only for boats or RV's and not available for cars. I'm going to check around some in case I can find a better option with that 800# switch like the other poster mentioned. I think it's worth having just so it's easy to cross the border and you don't have to set up a new policy from Mexico right before leaving.

Good ideas all  I'm so glad this forum exists - it has answered so many complicated questions for me


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## sparks

I've heard (only heard) that these border based insurance companies are starting to provide temporary stateside insurance for short trips. Worth checking on even if you already have insurance as they may not offer it to you without asking


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## RVGRINGO

Read your Mexican insurance policy carefully. Some, in the fine print, do require that you have insurance north of the border. The reason Mexican insurance for expat vehicles is less expensive than for a Mexican vehicle, is that it is actually a 'tourist policy' and it is assumed that the car won't always be in Mexico. If you don't carry US insurance, your Mexican insurance agent can arrange for a US short term policy for a month, or any longer period. In most cases, it is for liability and your Mexican policy may (check) actually cover collision, etc. outside of Mexico.


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## chicois8

When I cross in Lukeville AZ I cover what I am bringing in new with some beach towels and then I put some pots and pans and fishing poles on top, Aduana understands camping...
Inadvertently last year I got the red light, I did not know at the time but I had a roll of toilet paper against the side door,when the agent opened the side door and the roll hit the ground the agent ran after it, the same thing happened when he opened the back door of my wagon,a roll of paper towels fell to the ground also,he chased it down in the AZ heat, he then said please go!!!


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## floridagal

chicois8 -- ha ha - you made me laugh but actually, that's a great idea about adding the fishing poles, even though I'm not a fisherman at all. Thanks for sharing that tip!


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## chicois8

floridagal said:


> chicois8 -- ha ha - you made me laugh but actually, that's a great idea about adding the fishing poles, even though I'm not a fisherman at all. Thanks for sharing that tip!



I tried sending this site before but I am a newbi so no luck

Aduana México


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## HolyMole

*Mexican Car Insurance-Devil's in the Details*



RVGRINGO said:


> Read your Mexican insurance policy carefully. Some, in the fine print, do require that you have insurance north of the border. The reason Mexican insurance for expat vehicles is less expensive than for a Mexican vehicle, is that it is actually a 'tourist policy' and it is assumed that the car won't always be in Mexico. If you don't carry US insurance, your Mexican insurance agent can arrange for a US short term policy for a month, or any longer period. In most cases, it is for liability and your Mexican policy may (check) actually cover collision, etc. outside of Mexico.


I'm currently looking at my options for a 6 month policy to cover this winter, and have been having a lively (but unproductive) discussion with the US agent for several large Mexican car insurance companies over the term "Actual Cash Value" that Mexican insurance companies all apparently use to determine vehicle value in the case of theft and, presumably, the vehicle value that determines whether the insurance company would repair collision damage or simply "write-off" the car.

These on-line insurance agents suggest using the various well-known sites like KELLEY BLUE BOOK or NADA GUIDES to determine vehicle value for insurance purposes. The problem is that none of these sites use the term "actual cash value". There is the "trade-in value", the "private sale value" and the "suggested retail value" or variations thereof. Insurance agents always caution against under-estimating vehicle value for premium purposes, pointing out that this could result in the policy being voided.

From my own experience, "actual cash value" turned out to be a fair amount less than the value I had insured my vehicle for, and less than any of the appropriate KELLEY BLUE BOOK or NADA prices.

(I've been told that "actual cash value" is an insurance term used in that industry. Perhaps. I'm guessing that the real definition is something like: "What's the lowest price we can offer this guy that he'll settle because he knows he really has no practical recourse?") 

In the end, all I can suggest is that you ensure the vehicle for what you think you'll have to pay a dealer to replace it back home.....and then expect a settlement that is substantially less. 

Another thing that puzzles me is this question that seems to always be asked when requesting a quote for Mexican car insurance:

"Do you carry collision and theft coverage on your US or Canadian Car Insurance policy, and will you maintain this US/Canada 'Full Coverage' insurance throughout the Mexico policy period?"

Anyone have any idea why this would be relevant in any way? 

In my case, I carry liability, but no collision coverage in Canada: my vehicle is valued at only maybe $8000 C and I'm willing to take the risk in Canada that I won't be the cause of an accident.


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## RVGRINGO

We value our vehicle at 'wholesale', which would be the best that one might expect to be paid in the event that it was totaled or stolen, less the deductible amount, of course. Trying to overvalue a vehicle is fruitless. The insurance company will use the lowest book value at the time of the accident anyway. We've also found that US representatives often don't really know as much as they should about the Mexican system and would be of no help in the event of a claim in Mexico. As such, I strongly recommend that you choose a Mexican agent at your winter destination. Most of them will insure you by e-mail or phone and have various methods of payment. They'll send you a copy of the policy by e-mail or fax. We have never had a Mexican agent ask about coverage elsewhere.


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## HolyMole

*Insurance Agent's Reply*



HolyMole said:


> Another thing that puzzles me is this question that seems to always be asked when requesting a quote for Mexican car insurance:
> 
> "Do you carry collision and theft coverage on your US or Canadian Car Insurance policy, and will you maintain this US/Canada 'Full Coverage' insurance throughout the Mexico policy period?"
> 
> Anyone have any idea why this would be relevant in any way?


Well, I got an answer from the California-based insurance agent who sells on-line Mexican car insurance policies, representing several different Mexican companies. It's his on-line application form that asked the question.

He writes:

" The rate is slightly more if you dont carry US/Canadian insurance. Insurer rules."

Note that I checked another California-based insurance agent who sells a different Mexican company's policies, and their on-line application form simply asks you to provide the name of your US/Canadian insurance company, but doesn't ask any details of the coverage you have, so "insurer rules" may simply be restricted to one particular Mexican insurer. 

It still makes no sense to me why it's any business of the Mexican insurer who our home policies are with, or what specific coverage we have.


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## f3drivr

HolyMole,
You are probably already aware of this but I recently found out that if we are in Mexico for an extended period of time we can apply for a pro-rated refund from ICBC when we return from our trip and get the money back for the time that we were in Mexico.


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## mexliving

*fm2 fm3 / mexico car insurance....*

i encountered 2 students from az/ca that where planning to vacation for 14 days/camping in mexico..

the driver fell asleep around 1pm on the hermosillo highway.... they rolled end over end.. i came to the crash scene 10 minutes after it happened..... i went back and helped them.. they where ok , no bleeding or bruices.... it was a honda rav4 they where driving.

they purchased their 14 day insurance by simply stating 9,000 dollars value. the vehicle was worth more then 9,000 dollars but since they where students, they did not know that its more expensive to purchase 14 day insurance then 6 month.... the adjuster showed up and going thorugh the paperwork and telling them the honda was totalled.... they would take 9% of the 9,000 dollars and they would get a check in the mail.

so your vehicles value should be based on high blue book value.... and not asume to get the lowest blue book value...... cars are expensive in mexico then they are in the usa for us. (new).

in 2006 my used truck i had it valued at 25,000 dollars ...... now 3 years later and with 113,000 miles its valued at 15,000 dollars... what it would cost me to find a used model in perfect condition...my policy cost 250.00 dollars.....


FM2 FM3 if you are planning to move to mexico and you have a local mexican office in your town, get it done where you live since you will have 45 days or so to bring your household goods..... it would not make sence for you to come down on an fmt and then go back for your things....


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## HolyMole

*British Columbia Insurance Rebate*



f3drivr said:


> HolyMole,
> You are probably already aware of this but I recently found out that if we are in Mexico for an extended period of time we can apply for a pro-rated refund from ICBC when we return from our trip and get the money back for the time that we were in Mexico.


Yup. I've claimed the refund every year. They actually pro-rate your policy and refund the full amount for the number of days you were in Mexico. 

I bring ICBC the print-out that Mexican customs gives when you leave Mexico. It has the vehicle description and dates you entered and left Mexico. 

We gripe (sometimes) about government car insurance, but try getting your private insurer to give you a rebate. Don't hold your breath.


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## f3drivr

HolyMole said:


> Yup. I've claimed the refund every year. They actually pro-rate your policy and refund the full amount for the number of days you were in Mexico.
> 
> I bring ICBC the print-out that Mexican customs gives when you leave Mexico. It has the vehicle description and dates you entered and left Mexico.
> 
> We gripe (sometimes) about government car insurance, but try getting your private insurer to give you a rebate. Don't hold your breath.


I used to live in Alberta before I moved to BC, I paid monthly for my insurance there and if I was going to be away for an extended period of time I would simply call them and they would discontinue my insurance for the time I was away and I would not be billed. There was also no need to go in person every year to renew the insurance, it would renew automatically and they would send me a new card in the mail. I did have to go in to renew registration which was completely separate from insurance. It was only $50/year and you could choose to pay for 2 years if you wanted to. The insurance also cost less than half of what I paid in BC but I have heard that it has gone up in Alberta in the last few years and the difference is not as big as it used to be.
Alberta also no longer charges Provincial Health Care premiums. It might be worth establishing residence there before moving to Mexico.


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## HolyMole

f3drivr said:


> .........Alberta also no longer charges Provincial Health Care premiums. It might be worth establishing residence there before moving to Mexico.


If we move full-time to Mexico, what advantage would there be to establishing an Alberta residence before moving?

And if one establishes a residence in another province, (or state, presumably) that is, in effect, a "for record purposes only", then attempts to use that "residence" to claim....for example....healthcare benefits, isn't that asking for trouble?


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## f3drivr

HolyMole said:


> If we move full-time to Mexico, what advantage would there be to establishing an Alberta residence before moving?
> 
> And if one establishes a residence in another province, (or state, presumably) that is, in effect, a "for record purposes only", then attempts to use that "residence" to claim....for example....healthcare benefits, isn't that asking for trouble?


I would definately not attempt to claim any healthcare expenses from outside of Canada but if you were to get on Alberta healthcare before you left which costs nothing, maintained an address in Alberta and filed tax returns as a resident of Alberta then presumably they would not know that you are gone and the coverage would be there in the event that you got really sick and decided to return to Canada for treatment. 

The fact that it it only costs $50/year for registration on a vehicle, you can buy it for 2 years at a time and insurance coverage can be changed with a phone call would be another advantage. You could pay around $10/month for storage only and if you decided to take a trip to the US or Canada you could call your insurance company and get coverage just for the time that you need it. There is also no emissions testing in Alberta, I know you don't have it in the interior of BC either but here in the lower mainland we do. Also if you ever decided to buy a new vehicle in Canada or the US and register it in Canada you would not have to pay PST on it. 

You would also not have to pay PST on any services in Canada that you might choose to keep. One example might be Star Choice satellite TV which is the only satellite provider in Canada or the US that has a strong signal in Mexico and gives you all US networks and local news from Canada. 

I have also noticed that low income earners pay less income tax in Alberta. Here is a link to an online calculator that I found to calculate tax in each province. Canadian Income Tax Calculator 2009


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## carolina00789

Joycee said:


> Thank you RV ******. Excuse my ignorance on these matters but I take it I would need an FM2 in order for my husband and me to transport or ship household goods to Mexico.
> 
> Joycee


The people at your local Mexican consulate are extremely helpful and will explain things to you in detail. Make an appointment and go in and ask them what you need. this is a process...you will need to gather documents, I had no trouble getting all the information and papers I needed through the Mexican consulate in Dallas when I was going to move to Mexico five years ago. As it turned out, I didn't make the final move, but I did spend two or three months driving around Mexico investigating various cities I was interested in. I did not move my furniture within the 6 months required, so i suppose I will have to start over now!


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## carolina00789

RVGRINGO said:


> Note that the South Dakota website is only used to get the application form and the damage declaration form. You must telephone Clay County, SD in order to register. Please do not attempt to use any other county or to contact the SD DMV directly. Only Clay County provides this service.


Regarding the problems you cite of keeping a car registered and insured in the States, for years on end, while also insuring it in Mexico....a huge expense which I could ill afford, I am wondering if rental cars are readily available in San Miguel de Allende, for, say, a weekly trip to the big supermarket or other shopping....? Other occasions might be handled by taxi...no? Are rental cars horribly expensive to rent for a day?

In Texas, where I live, I don't think they would continue my registration without the annual inspection, required by law. And I certainly wouldn't want to be driving to the States annually...just a little too dangerous for a woman alone these days, though I quickly add that I have driven the full length and breadth of Mexico AND Guatemala alone and with no trouble whatsoever! I'm not sure it's as safe as it used to be.


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## RVGRINGO

It is just about as safe as always unless you are looking for drugs and trouble, as anywhere. Just don't drive at night.
I think it would be much less expensive to shop by taking a bus or taxi to the supermarket and a taxi home. Rental cars are expensive, even private rentals will cost about 400 pesos per day plus fuel.
We maintained our Texas vehicle registration for some years but it soon became impossible with the new rules. I don't recall having to prove any inspection for renewal but may have just declared the car 'still out of the country'. We still have TX driver's licenses as well as Jalisco driver's licenses.


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## carolina00789

Thanks...you are kind to reply. I haven't been without a car since I lived in Spain forty years ago and don't know how I would manage! But the hassles seem overwhelming.

I did however, zip around Madrid in taxis for two years with no problem, and don't remember ever even thinking about needing a car. Of course, I was twenty-one years old and darling and, as I recall, there were a few suitors with automobiles. Oh for the old days. I'd go back to Madrid, but if you think Mexico is complicated, try Spain! 

But back to the issue at hand, I appreciate the good information, especially about the South Dakota thing. Would one do that BEFORE moving to Mexico, or after arriving?


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## RVGRINGO

Most do the SD registration after moving to Mexico and just before your home plates are to expire. However, a US address is required, either a friend or a mailing service, such as we have here with Mail Boxes Etc. or Handy Mail at Lake Chapala.
You may, of course, elect to have a 'Mexican' car. Actually, we have a Smart Car that we bought in Guadalajara in 2006 and a Pathfinder that we brought down with us in 2001. The latter now gets exercised once a month and is seldom used.


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## Acapulco Joe

*Star Choice Satellite HDTV in Mexico*

Just fyi, I live in Acapulco, which is one of the cities furthest south in Mexico and I get full HDTV for all the Canadian and US Networks through Star Choice. I bought my condo pre-installed with Star Choice (now called Shaw Direct).

As well, just for your info, there is even a hotel here in Acapulco that offers full HDTV Canadian and US Satellite Channels on large flat screen tvs.

I don't believe they even use a larger dish than the normal eliptical dish Star Choice gives you.



f3drivr said:


> One example might be Star Choice satellite TV which is the only satellite provider in Canada or the US that has a strong signal in Mexico and gives you all US networks and local news from Canada.


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## Blackman

I know lots of people that bring their furniture and other household belongings. Perhaps that is more difficult with the recent changes to cut corruption at the border. But not sure if that will change anything since the people I know brought their stuff and never even paid bribes.


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## carolina00789

Blackman said:


> I know lots of people that bring their furniture and other household belongings. Perhaps that is more difficult with the recent changes to cut corruption at the border. But not sure if that will change anything since the people I know brought their stuff and never even paid bribes.


I have thought a lot about Tequesquipan and went there to have a look several years ago. Has it grown much? Is there an expat community at all? I speak fluent Spanish, but still need friends from my own culture. What drew you to Tequesquipan and how do you like it? What drawbacks would you cite, and what advantages? And what would you say the cost of living is, compared to other places in Mexico? I have spent a good deal of time in San Miguel de Allende and rents are very high....not to mention buying. I am only interested in living in the highlands.....too hot for me on the beach. Any input would be welcome...thanks!


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## Blackman

carolina00789 said:


> I have thought a lot about Tequesquipan and went there to have a look several years ago. Has it grown much? Is there an expat community at all? I speak fluent Spanish, but still need friends from my own culture. What drew you to Tequesquipan and how do you like it? What drawbacks would you cite, and what advantages? And what would you say the cost of living is, compared to other places in Mexico? I have spent a good deal of time in San Miguel de Allende and rents are very high....not to mention buying. I am only interested in living in the highlands.....too hot for me on the beach. Any input would be welcome...thanks!


Its great here. Came here cause my family was here but after looking around Mexico for 3 years I would still choose here. San Miguel is nice but expensive, here it is not nearly as expensive actually quite reasonable and cheap in many cases. San Juan Del Rio is cheaper than here but only about a 500-1000 peso difference for rent.

Can't think of many drawbacks and yes the expat community is quite substantial.


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## moisheh

Earlier in this thread RV ****** mentioned getting a green light. I know that for years most of us just went into the nothing to declare line and hoped for a green light. Readers of this forum should be aware that there are all new Aduaneros at the border. Although they still seem to be lazy and disinterested they are supposed to be cracking down on illegal imports. If you go to the nothing to decalre line and do have items to declare you risk heavy fines and the possible loss of your vehicle. The proper way to enter with goods is to go into the declare lane. You might not have to pay any duty but it is up to them. For anything under $3000 total the cost is 15% .


Insurance: Not all Mexican tourist policies are the same. Raed the fine print. Some have huge deductables and even then only pay a % of the ACV. Some require that the vehicle not be in Mexico more than 6 months of the year. Some do require that
you have NOB insurance. Lewis and Lewis is probably he best carrier. Great coverage and a good price. Sanborns normally has the highest price.

Moisheh


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## RVGRINGO

They are getting more strict at the border with the new, educated border agents and the advice given above is excellent.
On the insurance issue, most expats prefer to deal with a local insurance agent, wherever they live in Mexico. It is always good to have someone you can call, locally, to assist with problems and/or claims. The online agencies, already mentioned, can only direct you to the carrier's local adjuster's phone number. More personal service can have great advantages.
Actually, I'm going to see my agent within the hour to renew the policy on my Jalisco car. We've been with Tiocorp, in Ajijic, for eight years.


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## moisheh

RvGringo:

Were we buying insurance NOB your advice would be sage. Tourist insurance is a strange business. Lewis and Lewis is not an online agent. They are a real broker with bricks and mortar. The online sellers are just that :sellers. Anyone can be an agent complete with a website in a few minutes. You deal with a company out of Scottsdale. Something like International......... That would cover 90 % of the online sellers. Ther are a few other legit agencies like Vagabundos. Lewis and Lewis had a hand in writing the policies they issue. No one else offers the high liabilities and low deductables like they do. One other thing about Tourist insurance. It is completely unregulated and those on line sellers pay no income tax to either the USA or Mexico. The fine print in some policies is scary. They are designed to pay very little in case of an accident. Most do have disclaimer about living full time in Mexico. Most agents have very little clout when it comes to a claim. I have seen many horror stories. Like an adjuster who was in cahoots with the other adjuster and laid all the blame on his client who was actually innocent. Like adjusters who ask for money to settle a claim. One also has to be cautious about who is underwriting your policy. Some of the companies have less than $3 million in assets!!! Some do not have English speaking claims depts. Some take many months to pay or just ignore your calls. I am with Qualitas and have had claims that were all handled properly. One of the worst policies is Ada Vis. Some day I will write a book on this subject!!!


Moisheh


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## RVGRINGO

We agree on many points, but I prefer having a fully bilingual Mexican agent, who represents many insurance carriers, and serves a large, local expat community, instead of a company based in the USA and representing Mexican insurers from afar. In the event of an accident, the adjuster is the person we all have to deal with and depend upon, but having a local agent as back-up makes me feel better.


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## cookjmex

tumbleweeds said:


> We're lucky - my brother owns a house there and we'll be care-taking it for him since he's living in the US now - it's got 2 fireplaces (and lots of free wood) and radiant heat, so it should be nice and toasty. I was there a couple of years ago and was surprised at how many homes in that area don't have heat - yes, it does get cold there, and the house is a bit over 7400 feet, so it's even colder there than in Patzcuaro.
> 
> OK then, guess we'll just hope for the green light at the border! Thanks for your help!


When we moved down, we were intending on a long-term stay and brought down most of the items you mentioned in your original post. We entered Mexico on an FMT and got our FM3 about 5 months later. I was really sweating the border crossing, because it was unclear to me whether desktop computer was allowed in--laptops are definitely ok to bring in as a tourist but I didn't own one at that point. We got a red light both at the border and at the 20 mile checkpoint, but inspection was perfunctory at both places and we were pretty much waved through. Even if they want you to pay duty on some item, the amounts are not that much. Just pay it and feel yourself welcome to Mexico. If you bring in new electronics, make sure you pack them in boxes that are not their original packaging. This will decrease the chance of being asked to pay duty. They are really looking for people who are bringing in such items for re-sale. One other tip: DO NOT even think of bringing in a gun or even one bullet of ammunition. This can earn you jail time, even if it is a mistake on your part. Mexicans are VERY serious about this.


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## RVGRINGO

Everyone should remember that 100% of the customs agents have been fired and replaced with educated officers, who are much more strict and correct in their dealings. It is wise to be on the safe side now.


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