# PIC 4020 notice help!!



## Bobby9927 (Jul 15, 2014)

Hi guys i need some help regarding this issue if anyone had similar experience before so i had applied 489 visa back in january based on my overseas work experience and other documents but after all this wait i have been given the 4020 notice and they think my work experience was not genuine but it certainly was! Because the guys i worked with they left there ages ago so upon verification the new guys denied knowing me.. Please tell me what to do??
Thanks in advance


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## Bobby9927 (Jul 15, 2014)

I did send them payslips and work reference letter signed by my then manager since i was paid cash so no bank statements and tax returns etc. Because the current people cannot verify my claims they assumed its false information. My question is now can i just withdraw my application so they just don't go ahead and ban me for 3 years? Experts please help me out here!!


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## TheExpatriate (Feb 7, 2014)

http://www.immi.gov.au/Live/Pages/document-fraud.aspx




> Chance to comment
> If you are unable to satisfy us of your identity, or your application includes a bogus document or false or misleading information, we will notify you and ask you to provide comments within a specified time period.
> 
> If you have provided a bogus document or false or misleading information, but you think you should be granted a visa regardless, you should comment on whether there are any circumstances that would justify granting you the visa.
> ...


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## TheExpatriate (Feb 7, 2014)

you cannot withdraw, PIC 4020 means you are banned for 3 years already


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## Bobby9927 (Jul 15, 2014)

Do not go on to give someone wrong information if you do not know much okay. Better keep quiet! It doesn't say anywhere that i am banned already, yes they have given me a chance to comment.


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## samy25 (Oct 31, 2012)

from which country you are? 
and what numbers you provided them ?


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## samy25 (Oct 31, 2012)

if they have given you the chance then you should have a meeting with concern manager or higher .. request them to explain DIAC about misinformation has been given on call. get the recent letter stating that provided information on call was a negligence etc, and you were employed in company etc... Go to the last extent of efforts.


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## TheExpatriate (Feb 7, 2014)

Bobby9927 said:


> Do not go on to give someone wrong information if you do not know much okay. Better keep quiet! It doesn't say anywhere that i am banned already, yes they have given me a chance to comment.


you said they sent the notice of PIC 4020, if they sent the final notice it's a ban

Do not ask for help then ***** at people who answer your questions


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## semaaustralia (Oct 7, 2013)

You have to go this all you ve got. The comment is the only opportunity you have to get out of the impending ban and get your GRANT.
Present proofs: Complimentary cards, any correspondence between your employer and you, any sort of document that proves you had a relationship with the company. Like earlier suggested, try to get the company to write to DIBP clarifying the error. If you WORKED in that company, the least they can do is to at least say that you worked there.

I honestly hope you get out of this mess.

Cheers.


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## semaaustralia (Oct 7, 2013)

And ofcos, update the forum all the way as things unfold.


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## _shel (Mar 2, 2014)

Nothing to unfold. Unless he can provide evidence now proving beyond reasonable doubt he is not committing visa fraud he is banned. 

Get ready for removal from the country.


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## tinaozzie (Nov 3, 2014)

well
we have no idea how to help you as we are experts.
But I believe you can do two things. 1. Ask them to reject your application on the ground of not providing sufficient evidence so pic 4020 may not apply on you. 2. withdrawing your application asap. 3. if applicable that you should write a statement and include some of your workmates to verify your circumstance and do you have receipt when you receive your salary? if yes then explain your situation plus evidence. after all case officer are human i dont think they can be very evil. Good luck.


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## _shel (Mar 2, 2014)

Once they have uncovered fraudulent activity you do not have a choice on what grounds they reject you. The ban is automatic unless you can provide evidence that it is not.


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## Bobby9927 (Jul 15, 2014)

Okay just to let everyone know that i am not getting removed from the country neither did i provide fake documents. I have withdrawn my application successfully without any troubles. My verification didn't go well because of my employers asking me for a lot of money to verify my own work experience and once i denied that he lied to immigration that i never worked here. So thats how the immigration said my experience wasn't genuine. So thanks to the people who said kind and helpful words. I can't say the same about the ones who jumped to the conclusions of me being a fraud etc without knowing anything.


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## _shel (Mar 2, 2014)

:laugh: so your plan is? You'll be needing to apply for another visa at some point.


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## tinaozzie (Nov 3, 2014)

Good luck for aus journey.


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## gurzeykoc (Jul 4, 2015)

Hi everyone,

After a very long wait to submit additional documents,three days later after all documents have been submitted I have been asked to clarify about one of my previous employer's reference letter due to wrong information ( the wrong stamp has been put to my reference letter by my previous employer as my previous employer has several shops in my home country and wrong date but the dates have been corrected on translation paper of the reference letter so the immigration were aware of it) and that reference letter named as bogus.And immigration asked me to provide anything to clarify the situation and stated that if I am not able to clarify, my visa application would be refused in terms of PIC 4020.

Straight after I heard from immigration I contacted with my previous employer and requested him to correct the reference letter with an accurate reference letter.I also provided the work commencement details from government using the main superannuation funds service (social security details).And last I have worked in my previous work place for 7.5 months but the owner of the company has only paid for 3 months of my superannuation.
*The only problem now, I may prove that I worked for that company via the new reference letter with the right stamp and the superannuation entry paperwork from government but I am not able to provide the whole 7.5 months .I am only able to provide the 3 months that I worked there because of my smart employer.I am not sure what I am able to provide more to proof the time frame but hopefully they would satisfy with the paperwork I could provide.

Meanwhile my nomination approved on 6th of May!!!!! All paperwork have been submitted last week on the 19th of June including a corrected reference letter from my previous employer,a statutory declaration sworn by me to satisfy PIC 4020,social security details,a statement from my previous employer stating how the incident occurred and an explanation from me that I provided the correct employment dates in couple of docs earlier so simply stating that providing a bogus doc is not a matter of fact and it is all due to a misunderstanding between my previous employer and his authorised employee.Hopefully all of these docs would help to clarify this situation.

On the 19th of June all related paperwork have been provided to immigration to clarify the situation and I have not heard anything after that.If anyone got any advice ,would all this paperwork be enough to clarify the situation.

Best,
Gurzey


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## friend to all (Sep 7, 2015)

gurzeykoc said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> After a very long wait to submit additional documents,three days later after all documents have been submitted I have been asked to clarify about one of my previous employer's reference letter due to wrong information ( the wrong stamp has been put to my reference letter by my previous employer as my previous employer has several shops in my home country and wrong date but the dates have been corrected on translation paper of the reference letter so the immigration were aware of it) and that reference letter named as bogus.And immigration asked me to provide anything to clarify the situation and stated that if I am not able to clarify, my visa application would be refused in terms of PIC 4020.
> 
> ...


Hello Gurzey,

Have you received any reply yet? If not, then you need to contact them again, addressing the same email ID where you have already submitted your documents, may b your CO to find the status of your application


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## friend to all (Sep 7, 2015)

Bobby9927 said:


> Hi guys i need some help regarding this issue if anyone had similar experience before so i had applied 489 visa back in january based on my overseas work experience and other documents but after all this wait i have been given the 4020 notice and they think my work experience was not genuine but it certainly was! Because the guys i worked with they left there ages ago so upon verification the new guys denied knowing me.. Please tell me what to do??
> Thanks in advance


Hello friends, 

I am more or less in same situation where my employer was not clear when he gave my joining dates to Visa Officer, i am asked to explain abt mismatch in the years of experience, I have already replied to PIC 4020 on 02/09/2015 and have not yet received any reply, can anyone please help me to know what should i do next, when can I expect a reply.


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## Ravi1 (Jul 3, 2014)

Hi All,

I am in a situation and I feel this is the forum to put forward my case.

I am a Non- IT graduate working in an IT JOB. I have applied under 189 skilled independent visa (Computer Network and systems Engineer (263111))

My Profile:
Age- (31) 30 points
My IELTS Score -10 points
ACS Skill Assessment -10 point (5 years has been considered. Submitted RPL at the time of assessment) 
Graduation- 15 points
No points from Spouse but IELTS score is competent.

I am done with medicals and uploaded form 80 as requested by the visa officer. Last week I got verification call from immigration department we spoke for about 5 min its was a casual call and by the time I reached office HR received an email from the same verification officer requesting my employment history with my Roles and responsibilities in the company. My company did not provide that at the time of skill assessment (ACS) as they do not follow such practice, so I followed the alternate option of submitting referral letter from my colleagues. The visa officer shared the same document with my HR to confirm if these my duties mentioned the referral letter are genuine. Like I mentioned earlier my company does not follow such practice so couple of days back they wrote back to the visa officer that we cannot confirm all the details so they followed the standard procedure like they do for all the employment verification mails. They confirmed my existence in the company, date of joining and salary details designation and also mentioned that they cannot provide any more information apart from these.

I am scared about what would happen next as my employer did not confirm all the details requested. Primarily focusing on "Roles and responsibilities" which the visa officer is requesting for. Now my manger and HR knows that I am planning to quit which is secondary issue but if I don't get visa I will have to stick to the company but they already told me to start transiting my work.

Would these kind of cases get PIC 4020 or Natural justice letter? actually I never heard about these but after a lot of research I got to know about these. Would my case fall in this category? what are my chances now. 

Thank you guys!


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## gurzeykoc (Jul 4, 2015)

friend to all said:


> Hello Gurzey,
> 
> 
> 
> Have you received any reply yet? If not, then you need to contact them again, addressing the same email ID where you have already submitted your documents, may b your CO to find the status of your application



Hi ,I have not received any reply yet and I do still wait impatience and worry.I contacted the department 3 weeks ago (not the call center I contacted the case officer straight ) and I have been told that my file is due to late September which means next week or the following week after next week.I am trying to chill myself saying that I actually worked in that company and I provided all geniune and accurate documents that I could but I can not help myself to stop worrying.. I have been waiting more than three months after submitting documents to clarify the situation..So good luck everyone who is struggling with PIC 4020..


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## TheExpatriate (Feb 7, 2014)

Ravi1 said:


> Hi All,
> 
> I am in a situation and I feel this is the forum to put forward my case.
> 
> ...



By colleague referral letter, you mean a statutory declaration/sworn affidavit kind of a thing, or a letter on company letterhead with the colleague signing it? If it's the latter, you're in for trouble


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## Ravi1 (Jul 3, 2014)

It's referral letter (affidavit) signed by my colleague. When my company got verification email they confirmed on companies letter head that i work in the company, my designation and pay package only. They did not confirm roles and responsibilities mentioned in the affidavit.


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## Ravi1 (Jul 3, 2014)

If company could provide that info earlier we would have filed our file when applying for ACS. How can we direct HR to provide doc which they don't. What are my options. How can i prove the roles and responsibilities are true. Is there a option that i can opt for technical interview. Please advise.


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## friend to all (Sep 7, 2015)

Hello Ravi.

I Know MNC's specially banks doesn't provide details of job profile,
CO must be aware of this, there may be many more companies like this who doesn't disclose job profile of employee.

its absolutely fine don't worry.

after a month (from when you received a call) you can contact CO to find the status of ur application.

hope you get a visa, All the best


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## Ravi1 (Jul 3, 2014)

Thank you. Hoping for the best Friend.


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## jpadda001 (Jan 15, 2012)

i have received "invitation to comment" letter in july and i have submitted all my answers with supportive documents. now they ask my UK pcc and i have already submitted it but till now no response. Wait is making sick day by day


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## SqOats (Aug 20, 2014)

Guys,

Sorry to jump in but I might be in a similar situation. I've checked with my HR and he said he remembers that he got such email but as he was looking for the email with me, he was unable to find any email. 

So, can you pls tell me from which address usually they send the email for employer verification. I know there will be different email addresses but even the keywords will help the HR guy in searching his busy mailbox.

Thanks.


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## haisergeant (Sep 30, 2013)

Hi everyone

It seems that job verification caused some trouble for us. What happens if employers refuse to claim that we worked for their companies.

For example, in my case:
- My first employer: I have employment reference, contract, payslip. But the HR changed to other company, and the original director of the company is extremely busy and not likely to remember me in an organization with 120 employees in Viet Nam branch, as well as other branches around the world.
- My second employer: I have employment reference and contract, however, I don't have payslips since the payslips were sent to my internal email. And my internal email in the company has been deleted since I left. The HR officer also left the company long time ago. Now the only person knew me, worked in that company is technical director, but he is also busy.
- My third employer: I have employment reference. But I don't have offer letter since the director is the manager of my first company, he opened new company and invited me to work. I also received payment by cash. So I don't have payslips, bank statement or tax return.
- Luckily my fourth and fifth employers have given me employment references and bank statement as well.

I didn't receive invitation yet, but I should be awared of job verification, since there are more refusal cases involving job verification. Do anyone have some ideas about my inputs? Thanks


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## Ravi1 (Jul 3, 2014)

I think if verification happens and the directors whom you mentioned are busy and don't respond it will be uphill task. Before it happens talk to them keep them informed and request them to reply accordingly. No second thoughts.

All the best!


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