# Election time........again!!



## Rabbitcat (Aug 31, 2014)

Will Spain's lost months of politics come to an end? - BBC News


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Rabbitcat said:


> Will Spain's lost months of politics come to an end? - BBC News


A Mars bar for the man who noticed it's election time in Spain.
Most people on the Spanish forum seem to be totally oblivious of the fact that Spain has been under an caretaker government since December!


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## Justina (Jan 25, 2013)

*Elections*



Rabbitcat said:


> Will Spain's lost months of politics come to an end? - BBC News


These second lower key elections still cost some 130million euros which I find deplorable. I also find it madness that it has taken six months to get what could well be another stalemate.


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## Justina (Jan 25, 2013)

*Spanish elections*



Pesky Wesky said:


> A Mars bar for the man who noticed it's election time in Spain.
> Most people on the Spanish forum seem to be totally oblivious of the fact that Spain has been under an caretaker government since December!


I want a bag of maltesers, don't like Mars bars, but yes I have always been fascinated by politics and faithfully buy my el pais each morning and watch sexta in the evening. Not all of it, but they do good coverage although it can get repetitive at times.
I particularly liked the agreement between Sanchez and Rivera, different politics but hinted at a hopefully broad coalition of politics for Spain. I find them both earnest in their own way and coming from backgrounds which hopefully they wouldn't forget.
I do feel that Podemos in any coalition would bog the whole caboodle with its theoretical politics where nowt will really move forward, although Iñigo is a really bright spark.
I much prefer the French system where within a couple of weeks if there isn't an absolute majority, then the people have to get out again. I think six months of an interim govt is ridiculous.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Pesky Wesky said:


> A Mars bar for the man who noticed it's election time in Spain.
> Most people on the Spanish forum seem to be totally oblivious of the fact that Spain has been under an caretaker government since December!


I'm very much aware of it but didn't want a repeat of the last thread we had about Spanish politics, which left me wanting to bang my head against the wall! So now I only discuss it with Spanish friends.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Alcalaina said:


> I'm very much aware of it but didn't want a repeat of the last thread we had about Spanish politics, which left me wanting to bang my head against the wall! So now I only discuss it with Spanish friends.


I haven't had time to get into it this time, but like you I decided that it wasn't a good forum topic either.
I know that there are a few of us who follow Spanish politics to a certain extent, but I am surprised by how little it seeps in to the life of the British in Spain. I suppose it's the language thing again


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Pesky Wesky said:


> A Mars bar for the man who noticed it's election time in Spain.
> Most people on the Spanish forum seem to be totally oblivious of the fact that Spain has been under an caretaker government since December!


And many Spanish people seem to have very little interest...
We experienced the same situation when we lived in Prague, a caretaker government for six months. People just got on with their lives and forgot about politics. Just as here.
I went to a PSOE rally on Saturday in Torremolinos with Susana Diaz as star speaker. This is the only one I've been to, the only one we organised a coach for. Last December I went to four rallies to hear Pedro and Susana. The atmosphere on Saturday was enthusiastic but not like in December where the meetings were like a minor key Nuremberg rally with crowds whipped up to fever pitch by ranting speakers, much flag-waving, pounding music...
In December I spent the day as PSOE apoderada at our local mesa. We don't seem to be having any presence this year, maybe in Estepona itself...
I predict that PP will form a government and that Rajoy will be shunted to make way for Soria whats-her-name. UnidosPodemos will come second and shortly thereafter will begin to disintegrate. The term 'united left' is and always has been an oxymoron.
If Iglesias ever got his hands on real power like Syriza in Greece the bubble would quickly burst when wild rhetoric ran up against cruel reality.
PSOE urgently needs to take a look at itself and make changes. Regional barons have too much power.
But whatever, PSOE will continue to keep its hold on Andalucia, even if in some provinces it doesn't deserve to.
My predictions for today: Remain win in UK tomorrow, PP government with Cs Monday.


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## Isobella (Oct 16, 2014)

BBC has a story today about smear tactics by the interior Minister.

Spain interior minister refuses to resign over smear allegations - BBC News


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

mrypg9 said:


> And many Spanish people seem to have very little interest...
> We experienced the same situation when we lived in Prague, a caretaker government for six months. People just got on with their lives and forgot about politics. Just as here.
> I went to a PSOE rally on Saturday in Torremolinos with Susana Diaz as star speaker. This is the only one I've been to, the only one we organised a coach for. Last December I went to four rallies to hear Pedro and Susana. The atmosphere on Saturday was enthusiastic but not like in December where the meetings were like a minor key Nuremberg rally with crowds whipped up to fever pitch by ranting speakers, much flag-waving, pounding music...
> In December I spent the day as PSOE apoderada at our local mesa. We don't seem to be having any presence this year, maybe in Estepona itself...
> ...


Not sure that it's real lack of interest, but it just seems that nothing is happening and that people are not changing their vote, just as politicians are not changing their tactics.
As you say everyone's gone on living their lives for 6 months. Disaster didn't hit because a new government wasn't voted in and I think it's just all gone off the boil.
I don't think Podemos is up to the challenge of forming a government, but I don't think the others are either! I mean PP and Psoe can probably cobble something up, but I don't think any of the 4 main parties can form a strong government capable of leading Spain well.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Not sure that it's real lack of interest, but it just seems that nothing is happening and that people are not changing their vote, just as politicians are not changing their tactics.
> As you say everyone's gone on living their lives for 6 months. Disaster didn't hit because a new government wasn't voted in and I think it's just all gone off the boil.
> I don't think Podemos is up to the challenge of forming a government, but I don't think the others are either! I mean PP and Psoe can probably cobble something up, but I don't think any of the 4 main parties can form a strong government capable of leading Spain well.


I've been politically active since I was sixteen...and that's a very long time ago. It must be an infection or an addiction as when I retired at a comparatively early age I couldn't keep away and got involved more deeply in trades unionism. Then when I came here I joined PSOE in 2010.
I have never in all my life felt so disinterested and disillusioned as I do now. Politics in the UK and in Spain are imo deeply disappointing. Whatever the outcome of today's vote in the UK, the campaign has caused division and coarsened political discourse. In Spain, it's the casual amorality of political life that I find hard to deal with. Corruption is as every-day as a morning cafelito.....where PP has power, PP is corrupt. Where PSOE has power, ditto. For all its preaching Podemos hasn't got clean hands. Yet most Spaniards I know shrug their shoulders and say 'What can we do?' whilst paying cash wherever possible to avoid tax.
When I first got involved in the 1960s everything seemed so hopeful, innocent and naïve, I suppose....But once the militant far left in the Labour Party and the far right under Thatcher brought ideology into political life, all that changed. 
Politicians began to lose focus on real people and their needs and stopped looking for equitable, feasible solutions, preferring to concentrate on dogma and theory.
Sometimes I think that since 1945 we've made a Faustian agreement....we've secured peace in Europe at least but in return for handing our daily lives over to the money people. Harold Wilson used to call them the 'Gnomes of Zurich'....they are the ones with power, they control governments, they rule our lives.
If we are honest, it doesn't really make a big difference how Spain or the UK votes. As someone once said, if voting changed things 'they' would abolish it.
My way of coming to terms with this is to think local. Small steps can mean a lot in the lives of local people and these don't have to be political steps, not in the party political sense anyway.


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## olivefarmer (Oct 16, 2012)

mrypg9 said:


> I've been politically active since I was sixteen...and that's a very long time ago. It must be an infection or an addiction as when I retired at a comparatively early age I couldn't keep away and got involved more deeply in trades unionism. Then when I came here I joined PSOE in 2010.
> I have never in all my life felt so disinterested and disillusioned as I do now. Politics in the UK and in Spain are imo deeply disappointing. Whatever the outcome of today's vote in the UK, the campaign has caused division and coarsened political discourse. In Spain, it's the casual amorality of political life that I find hard to deal with. Corruption is as every-day as a morning cafelito.....where PP has power, PP is corrupt. Where PSOE has power, ditto. For all its preaching Podemos hasn't got clean hands. Yet most Spaniards I know shrug their shoulders and say 'What can we do?' whilst paying cash wherever possible to avoid tax.
> When I first got involved in the 1960s everything seemed so hopeful, innocent and naïve, I suppose....But once the militant far left in the Labour Party and the far right under Thatcher brought ideology into political life, all that changed.
> Politicians began to lose focus on real people and their needs and stopped looking for equitable, feasible solutions, preferring to concentrate on dogma and theory.
> ...


They are also called _vested interests_ elsewhere.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

olivefarmer said:


> They are also called _vested interests_ elsewhere.


Only by you, in that sense.
We ALL have 'vested interests' of one kind or another. The term merely means an area of life, any area, which can affect our lives for better or worse and in which we have a stake.
For example: as an active member of PSOE, I have a vested interest in it securing the highest number of votes in Sunday's elections. (although it won't).
As an investor in various listed companies, I have a vested interest in their favourable performance.
As a recipient of income in sterling living in Spain, I have a vested interest in it maintaining a strong exchange rate against the euro.
A mortgage holder has a vested interest in lower interest rates.

I refer here to specific loci of concentrated financial power, such as the IMF, the Bank of International settlements, the leading bond traders like Pimco. These, like you or I,have vested interests .....

Here's a definition:
_

Collins English Dictionary

noun
1. property law an existing and disposable right to the immediate or future possession and enjoyment of property

2. a strong personal concern in a state of affairs, system, etc, usually resulting in private gain

3. a person or group that has such an interest_

So the sense in which you have used it on other threads doesn't apply as some 'vested interests' have wishes relating to outcomes that differ from those of other 'vested interests'.
Which is why we need to be more specific.


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## olivefarmer (Oct 16, 2012)

Tres droll.

Whatever spin you put on it, they are the ones pulling the strings not us.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

olivefarmer said:


> Tres droll.
> 
> Whatever spin you put on it, they are the ones pulling the strings not us.


Well, they didn't this time, did they....


My point is simple: there is no such thing as one united bloc you can call 'vested interests'. In the referendum campaign, there were 'vested interests' on both sides.
I believe that the 'vested interests' of the rentier class - investors, speculators, bond traders, bankers -will always be stronger than the 'vested interests' of working people -trades unions, political parties.


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## JulyB (Jul 18, 2011)

Meh. More the same. Only this time with extra PP.


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## Justina (Jan 25, 2013)

*Elections*



JulyB said:


> Meh. More the same. Only this time with extra PP.


And some 130 million much needed euros on it. The people have had these last six months plus whatever months before the first election, I have already forgotten.
I think the system is very poor and should be reorganized. People begin to tune out after a while. But yes, shame about the PP.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

PSOE has lost Andalucia......that is indeed a political earthquake.
So Rajoy has increased his vote which means he has good reason to stay as Leader...but Cs have said they will not support PP in coalition if he stays.
UnidosPodemos failed to make the expected breakthrough, not surprising, really. The term 'united left' is and always has been an oxymoron. I spoke to a local Podemos friend yesterday whilst at the village Mesa and he said that the local IU and Podemos don't even speak to each other. 
PP won in Malaga and in Estepona, not surprising, really. We scraped in second.
I'm praying there won't be six months of stalemate and wrangling then a third election...surely not..


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