# Fined for driving in Spain on EU licence



## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

Asking on behalf of a colleague because I'm struggling to find the applicable legislation.

EU citizen, moved to Spain about a year ago, got his green cert in Jan 2019. Brought his car and got it onto Spanish plates and thought he was all legal. I admit that I thought so too.

But earlier this week he got stopped and the GC handed him a penalty notice and fine for driving without a valid licence. He argued that as his EU licence had no expiry date he was not obliged to exchange it for a Spanish one yet but they said that this was under the previous law and that it was no longer the case. 

I think he should challenge it, but have I missed something? He's thinking of just paying to get the discount.


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## Tucsonsteve (Mar 26, 2013)

While not a primary source, this indicates your colleague had a minimum of two years to exchange a license with no expiration under eu law:

https://europa.eu/youreurope/citize...ing-licence-exchange-recognition/index_en.htm


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## davexf (Jan 26, 2009)

Hola 

Under European law the driving licence must be renewed every ten years from the date of issue.All EU countries agreed to the EU rules on the 19th January 2013 if my memory is correct. 

If his licence does not have an expiry date then it is not legal; there was a cut off date by which time all such licences had to be exchanged 

Davexf


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Overandout said:


> Asking on behalf of a colleague because I'm struggling to find the applicable legislation.
> 
> EU citizen, moved to Spain about a year ago, got his green cert in Jan 2019. Brought his car and got it onto Spanish plates and thought he was all legal. I admit that I thought so too.
> 
> ...


It depends on the categories on the licence as to when you have to renew, but the DGT does say that you have two years to do so, even with those categories.


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## stevesainty (Jan 7, 2011)

I believe that residents in Spain have to change their licences to Spanish ones within 2 years of becoming a resident.

Spanish Solutions | Spanish Driving Licences

https://www.facebook.com/pg/DrivingSpain/posts/?ref=page_internal

N332
21 December 2017 · 
Brisith Driving Licences

Many British Drivers with normal residence in Spain, still thinking they do not need to exchange their driving licences due to two mains reasons;

1- They can wait till it expires to exchange it (Despite of the fact that their licences were issued for more than 15 years and according to the European Decree 206/126 CE, they must be renewed.)

2- They do not need to change them because their licences are issued for 10 years. (Taking as a reference the validity date below the photo of their licence.) So they are complying with the EU regulations.

We would like to share this article from Spanish Solutions (an es*tab*lished legal and tax firm on the Costa Blanca), where they explain why nowadays many drivers are driving illegaly on the Spanish roads, risking themselves to be fined.


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

stevesainty said:


> I believe that residents in Spain have to change their licences to Spanish ones within 2 years of becoming a resident.


You have misunderstood the laws.

The article you linked to is correct.

You do NOT have to exchange within 2 years UNLESS;

(1) The d/l is issued for more than 15 years
(2) Categories C and D are for more than 5 years


The facts are clear but people misinterpret them all the time


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## stevesainty (Jan 7, 2011)

Thank you for that snikpoh.

However, if the person who was fined had exchanged his licence, he would not have been issued with the fine in the first place. If the fine was erroneous, it would cost a lot more than the 50% of the fine to contest it. IMHO

I really cannot understand why you would not wish to exchange your licence once you become resident, as soon as possible, rather than wait until the last minute.


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

xabiaxica said:


> It depends on the categories on the licence as to when you have to renew, but the DGT does say that you have two years to do so, even with those categories.


I think this thread will turn into one of those threads! Did we not ( OP excluded) have this discussion a few weeks ago.

The facts are clear, you have two years in which to exchange your licence. Unless you live in ................ (fill in town of your choice) where apparently it’s clear you don’t.

When we received our original green card for residency, the police official actually made a point of telling us to renew our licence within two years. 

OP have no idea, maybe it’s an over zealous post Brexit error?


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

Thanks for the replies so far, but sadly, most of the pages linked to are resources that we've already seen and read.

Unfortunately, the DGT website is not legally binding, so he doesn't feel comfortable appealing against the fine based on information which goes against what the Guardia Civil told him.

He has, of course, started the process to exchange his licence now (he has an appointment in tráfico today), but he feels a bit aggrieved that it appears that information on official websites is not reliable.

I think that maybe davexf is onto something. Maybe it is not the issuing country which is the root of the problem, just that the licence he presented has no expiry date.

I still feel a bit uncomfortable with not finding the real applicable law that confirms his guilt, or innocence though.


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

Megsmum said:


> I think this thread will turn into one of those threads! Did we not ( OP excluded) have this discussion a few weeks ago.
> 
> The facts are clear, you have two years in which to exchange your licence. Unless you live in ................ (fill in town of your choice) where apparently it’s clear you don’t.
> 
> ...


I had not seen this post when I replied earlier, but I think I need to clarify.

This is nothing to do with Brexit, or changes introduced for UK licences by Brexit. My colleague is not British, he is a "real EU citizen". So we should not consider this to be a re-run of the previous threads about driving in Spain on a UK licence, which as we know is quite a different issue now.

Have spent some time looking through Spanish legislation this morning based on some good info here, I will post back if I actually find an answer in law!!!


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## Juan C (Sep 4, 2017)

Two brief points

1. If one lives in spain they cannot legally renew/replace their U.K. D/L. One signs the application to say they are resident in U.K. / habitually resident. Thus if one looses their U.K. licence they have problems and of course cannot drive in Spain until they can have a licence in their possession. As bye side. If one is stopped and has a Spanish licence the police know what it is and don’t start delving into other possible problems/offences etc. You are just one of the crowd !

2. I have over the years asked the national police about traffic and other laws in spain. It has usually resulted in two or three officers arguing about the answer. I have also asked the Guadia Civil. When I have done that either the officer has called their helpline and got the answer or has given the phone to me. Asking just an officer is unreliable at the least.


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## Love Karma (Oct 10, 2018)

Ask as many people as possible, Google away for hours until you find the answer that suits you


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

Juan C said:


> Two brief points
> 
> 1. If one lives in spain they cannot legally renew/replace their U.K. D/L. One signs the application to say they are resident in U.K. / habitually resident. Thus if one looses their U.K. licence they have problems and of course cannot drive in Spain until they can have a licence in their possession. As bye side. If one is stopped and has a Spanish licence the police know what it is and don’t start delving into other possible problems/offences etc. You are just one of the crowd !
> 
> 2. I have over the years asked the national police about traffic and other laws in spain. It has usually resulted in two or three officers arguing about the answer. I have also asked the Guadia Civil. When I have done that either the officer has called their helpline and got the answer or has given the phone to me. Asking just an officer is unreliable at the least.


Two brief responses:

1. Your point 1 is not relevant to the question as this is not about UK driving licences.

2. Of course the information from an agent of the GC is unreliable, this is the basis of the question raised, this unreliable opinion of the GC is costing my colleague money. I am looking for help obtaining the reliable legal information.


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## Juan C (Sep 4, 2017)

Love Karma said:


> Ask as many people as possible, Google away for hours until you find the answer that suits you


Great answer !!!!!


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## Juan C (Sep 4, 2017)

Over and out. 

I was suggesting anyone who needs a correct answer might go to the GC and have them call their helpline. 

I was only trying to help


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

My colleague has just returned from the DGT.

They have told him that "in their opinion" he has 2 years to exchange his licence.

He asked them why he had received the fine, and obviously, they said that they didn't know.

He asked if they thought he should appeal against it, and again logically, they said that it was his choice, but they could not say on what basis the fine had been issued.

He is appealing against it. I'll let you know what happens!!


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

Overandout said:


> My colleague has just returned from the DGT.
> 
> They have told him that "in their opinion" he has 2 years to exchange his licence.
> 
> ...


I can see why they've said that. Because his licence was for longer than the allowed 15 years (no expiry date), it was invalid. In that case the law states he has 2 years to exchange it.

I will see if I can find a link to the actual law.


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

Right, I think I've got it. There are so many "regulations", "guidelines" and "codes" about driving in Spain that it is quite difficult to see what is actually legally binding on each matter, but I think that the red herring here was the common belief by both the GC and most foreigners that the law on EU licences used in Spain has changed recently.

It has not.

The applicable law in this matter is Royal Decree 818/2009 dated 8th May, approving the General Regulations on Drivers.

In Article 15, paragraph 4 it clearly states that an EU licence with no expiry date is valid as long as it has been legally issued by an EU member state until the holder has accrued 2 years after taking up residency in Spain.

This provision has not been repealed by any subsequent legislation according to the juridical databases available online, and doesn't appear to be contradicted elsewhere in the RD.

So, although I haven't read the entire RD from beginning to end I'm thinking that he should get off... it will be interesting...


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

Overandout said:


> I had not seen this post when I replied earlier, but I think I need to clarify.
> 
> This is nothing to do with Brexit, or changes introduced for UK licences by Brexit. My colleague is not British, he is a "real EU citizen". So we should not consider this to be a re-run of the previous threads about driving in Spain on a UK licence, which as we know is quite a different issue now.
> 
> Have spent some time looking through Spanish legislation this morning based on some good info here, I will post back if I actually find an answer in law!!!


My bad, although I read I simply assumed U.K. licence


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

snikpoh said:


> I can see why they've said that. Because his licence was for longer than the allowed 15 years (no expiry date), it was invalid. In that case the law states he has 2 years to exchange it.
> 
> I will see if I can find a link to the actual law.


I haven't found any legal basis that makes his original licence invalid due to it being "permanent" but you might be right. If you can find the law on this please let me know.

The interesting point though is that he hasn't been fined for driving with an invalid licence because it has no expiry date. The fine specifically states that he was driving on an EU issued licence which should have been exchanged for a Spanish one.


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## kaju (Oct 31, 2011)

Real Decreto 818/2009

https://boe.es/buscar/pdf/2009/BOE-A-2009-9481-consolidado.pdf

*Article 15, Para 4*, states:
_4. The holder of a driving licence issued in one of those (EU) States who has acquired normal residence in Spain shall be subject to the Spanish provisions concerning its period of validity, the control of his psycho-physical aptitude and the allocation of a points credit. 
*In the case of driving licences which are not subject to a fixed period of validity, their holders must renew them two years after taking up normal residence in Spain in order to apply the periods of validity laid down in Article 12.* 
_

*Article 12*:
_Validity of the permit and driving licence. 
1. Driving licences for classes C1, C1+E, C, C+E, D1, D1+E, D and D+E 
shall be valid for five years until the holder reaches the age of 65 and for three years thereafter. 
2. The licence for the remaining classes and the driving licence, whatever its class, shall be valid for 10 years until the holder reaches the age of 65 and for 5 years thereafter. _

And with no relevance whatsoever, my wife and I exchanged our licenses here in Austria last week, she had a "for life" German license which would run out in a few years anyway as the law was changed for that in Germany a few years ago, and I had an Australian car and bike license, which I had to change within 6 months since it was from a non-EU country. 

The local office said I'd have to do the practical bike test again (what? bit insulting after riding for 40 years, the last decade or so on an 1150cc Hummer-size equivalent for maybe 15,000km each year - https://www.expatforum.com/expats/l...ptions-about-land-down-under.html#post8216842) so I said just give me the car license for now. 

We went back a week later after they'd checked that our handed-in licenses were actually still valid in our respective countries, and with 100E, they forwarded our records to be processed. Three days later, shiny new Austrian licenses arrived in the mail, with both car and bike licenses (for both of us!?!), valid for 15 years.


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

Just for closure. My colleague was let off the fine as I had expected. The denuncia has been archived.


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## davexf (Jan 26, 2009)

Overandout said:


> Just for closure. My colleague was let off the fine as I had expected. The denuncia has been archived.


Hola 

Well done for coming back and letting us know the result 

Davexf


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