# Hamburg vs Karlsruhe 2021



## Kirran

Hello ,
My husband and I are moving from the US to Germany. We have two options Karlsruhe or Hamburg. For a period of 1-2 years.
I do not see any recent threads on this.

1.i would like to know which place is better? ( we are in our late 20s)
2.What would be the ideal salary for 2 people to live comfortably.?
3. Only one of us is currently working . Can the other person work in Germany? If so what visa? We do not know German , is this a requirement for jobs?
4. Should we bring furniture’s? Or buying there is cheaper?
5. I read many posts stating there will not be any kitchen appliances as opposed to the US
6. Where can I find apartments for rent?

I would be much obliged if anyone can help me out with these. Thanks !


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## ALKB

Kirran said:


> We have two options Karlsruhe or Hamburg. For a period of 1-2 years.


On what basis will you move? Will it be an employer-sponsored visa?

A lot will depend on what type of visa the main applicant will be on.


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## ALKB

Kirran said:


> 1.i would like to know which place is better? ( we are in our late 20s)


Hamburg is the second biggest city in Germany. It comes with all the opportunities, amenities, advantages and disadvantages of a big city.

Karlsruhe is a lot more quaint with opportunities to easily visit France and Switzerland, with I think probably more interesting outdoor pursuits.



Kirran said:


> 2.What would be the ideal salary for 2 people to live comfortably.?


That depends on what you consider comfortably.



Kirran said:


> 3. Only one of us is currently working . Can the other person work in Germany? If so what visa? We do not know German , is this a requirement for jobs?


What kind of visa will the working partner be on? The non-working partner will presumably be on a dependent spouse visa. Whether that comes with automatic work rights depends on the type of visa of the working partner.

Not all jobs require German but not knowing German will severely limit you. Think about it - is English a requirement for working in the USA?



Kirran said:


> 4. Should we bring furniture’s? Or buying there is cheaper?


Your furniture will probably not fit quite right in a German apartment and will also not be of standard German sizing (Mattresses, etc.) - is your employer paying for shipping? If so, you may want to negotiate a sum of money to purchase furniture in Germany. I have a friend who brought everything from Australia and ended up either throwing things or stuffing everything in their cellar. I think they still may have that one Australian book shelf.



Kirran said:


> 5. I read many posts stating there will not be any kitchen appliances as opposed to the US


German apartments may or may not come with a fitted kitchen/appliances. Nor light fixtures, floor coverings or curtains. We tend to stay in apartments for a long time and bring our own things. I currently have a landlord-provided kitchen but apart from the oven/stove I have to buy my own appliances - washing machine, fridge, microwave, dishwasher, etc.
Typically, the landlord has to provide an oven/stove and a sink. But even that depends on where in Germany you are.

Furnished apartments are rare and often very expensive.

Also note, that we count rooms (not including kitchen and bathroom), not bedrooms. A 1 room apartment is a studio. A 2 room apartment is a 1 bedroom/1 living room apartment.



Kirran said:


> 6. Where can I find apartments for rent?


immobilienscout24.de

immonet.de

ebay-kleinanzeigen.de

craigslist (if you want to avoid the German crowd)

If you are just staying for a year or two, you could probably do well with renting from somebody on sabbatical/secondment while they are overseas.

Do a search on 'wohnen auf Zeit + where you want to live'


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## Kirran

ALKB said:


> On what basis will you move? Will it be an employer-sponsored visa?
> 
> A lot will depend on what type of visa the main applicant will be on.


Hi,
It is an employee sponsored visa


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## Kirran

ALKB said:


> Hamburg is the second biggest city in Germany. It comes with all the opportunities, amenities, advantages and disadvantages of a big city.
> 
> Karlsruhe is a lot more quaint with opportunities to easily visit France and Switzerland, with I think probably more interesting outdoor pursuits.
> 
> 
> 
> That depends on what you consider comfortably.
> 
> 
> 
> What kind of visa will the working partner be on? The non-working partner will presumably be on a dependent spouse visa. Whether that comes with automatic work rights depends on the type of visa of the working partner.
> 
> Not all jobs require German but not knowing German will severely limit you. Think about it - is English a requirement for working in the USA?
> 
> 
> 
> Your furniture will probably not fit quite right in a German apartment and will also not be of standard German sizing (Mattresses, etc.) - is your employer paying for shipping? If so, you may want to negotiate a sum of money to purchase furniture in Germany. I have a friend who brought everything from Australia and ended up either throwing things or stuffing everything in their cellar. I think they still may have that one Australian book shelf.
> 
> 
> 
> German apartments may or may not come with a fitted kitchen/appliances. Nor light fixtures, floor coverings or curtains. We tend to stay in apartments for a long time and bring our own things. I currently have a landlord-provided kitchen but apart from the oven/stove I have to buy my own appliances - washing machine, fridge, microwave, dishwasher, etc.
> Typically, the landlord has to provide an oven/stove and a sink. But even that depends on where in Germany you are.
> 
> Furnished apartments are rare and often very expensive.
> 
> Also note, that we count rooms (not including kitchen and bathroom), not bedrooms. A 1 room apartment is a studio. A 2 room apartment is a 1 bedroom/1 living room apartment.
> 
> 
> 
> immobilienscout24.de
> 
> immonet.de
> 
> ebay-kleinanzeigen.de
> 
> craigslist (if you want to avoid the German crowd)
> 
> If you are just staying for a year or two, you could probably do well with renting from somebody on sabbatical/secondment while they are overseas.
> 
> Do a search on 'wohnen auf Zeit + where you want to live'


Thanks a lot for your detailed answers.


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## ALKB

Kirran said:


> Hi,
> It is an employee sponsored visa


And what kind?

Do you meet the requirements for a BlueCard?

Is the employer providing relocation assistance?


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## Kirran

Kirran said:


> Hello ,
> My husband and I are moving from the US to Germany. We have two options *Karlsruhe or Hamburg*. For a period of *1-2 years.*
> I do not see any recent threads on this.
> 
> 1.I would like to know which place is *better*? ( we are in our late 20s)
> 2.What would be the ideal *salary* for 2 people to live comfortably? (approx. average for IT field)
> 3.Should we bring *furniture*? Or buying there is cheaper?
> 4.I read many posts stating there will not be any *kitchen* *appliances* as opposed to the US
> 5. Where can I *find* *apartments* for rent? Anyone interested in renting it out from September 2021?
> 
> 
> I would be much obliged if anyone can help me out with these. Thanks !


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## ALKB

1.I would like to know which place is *better*? ( we are in our late 20s)

Do you want gritty, easy access to the coast, a subway system, a world-famous red-light district, a philharmonic concert house that is famous as much for its architecture as for the great acoustics, hanseatic reservedness, daytrips to Berlin, the Netherlands, Denmark? Then Hamburg is better.

Do you want pretty, easy access to skiing in winter, afternoons in France and daytrips to Switzerland or Luxemburg, hiking in the blackforest? Then Karlsruhe is better.

It will come down to what you like to do in your free time.

It's very subjective. Is Denver better or Boston?

3.Should we bring *furniture*? Or buying there is cheaper?

Is your employer paying for shipping back and forth? If yes, it's obviously cheaper to bring your stuff but it might not fit a German apartment and you may or may not end up with pieces that you can't put anywhere.

If the employer doesn't pay for shipping furniture, then buying new will probably be cheaper.

Since American homes tend to come with built-in closets, you probably don't have any wardrobes? You'll have to buy at least those, then.

4.I read many posts stating there will not be any *kitchen* *appliances* as opposed to the US

Landlords have to provide an oven/stove, anything else is voluntary. If you rent furnished, appliances are usually included but renting furnished is absolutely not the norm in Germany and expensive.

The standard German apartment comes with nothing in it. (Apart from the stove and a standalone kitchen sink).

5. Where can I *find* *apartments* for rent? Anyone interested in renting it out from September 2021?

I have given you a bunch of websites in my last post. September will mean lots of competition from students.

This may also help - it's originally a platform for finding room mates but there are also entire apartments for rent:



https://www.wg-gesucht.de/wohnungen-und-haeuser-in-Hamburg.55.2+3.1.0.html?offer_filter=1&city_id=55&noDeact=1&categories%5B%5D=2&categories%5B%5D=3&rent_types%5B%5D=0


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## Nononymous

It's not always the case that German kitchens are stripped bare. While searching, look for Einbauküche or EBK and you'll find the ones with built-in kitchens including fridge, stove and possibly dishwasher. (You probably still need to supply your own washing machine and hook it up in the bathroom, however.)


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## Nononymous

General advice and I'm a bit rusty since it's been a while since we last went and settled in Germany for an extended stay.

Hamburg vs. Karlsruhe comes down to your preferences, as detailed above. One is not _better_ than the other, except possibly at soccer, which is something quantifiable.

How you move depends on how much money you have to play with, how long you're planning to stay, how attached you are to certain sorts of stuff. I would bring as little as possible because whatever you find is likely to be considerably smaller than where you live now, unless you're coming from NYC.

The safest route is probably to look for a furnished place on a temporary basis, 3 months to a year - see ads for "Wohnen auf Zeit" - and make that your first home. This will give you time to figure out neighbourhoods, commutes, what you like and don't like, and also get established so that you can start hunting for the classic stripped-to-the-bare-walls and wires-dangling-from-the-ceiling German apartment. It's also tough to get a long-term lease sometimes (here's a word you will learn: Hauptmietvertrag) without having first figured things out; surviving the probation period in your job is likely to reassure future landlords as well.


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## ALKB

Nononymous said:


> It's not always the case that German kitchens are stripped bare. While searching, look for Einbauküche or EBK and you'll find the ones with built-in kitchens including fridge, stove and possibly dishwasher. (You probably still need to supply your own washing machine and hook it up in the bathroom, however.)


True, it's getting more common now to have a fitted kitchen in rentals, albeit those apartments tend to be not the very cheapest.

Einbauküche can mean just the cabinets or some appliances or all appliances. Sometimes one views an apartment while the tenant is still living there, the kitchen is great ("Yes, the kitchen comes with the apartment") only to find on moving in day that the appliances were the tenant's and they are gone.

I am renting an apartment with Einbauküche, but all appliances are mine.


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## Nononymous

It will somewhat depend on the degree of eingebautedness - if the fridge and dishwasher are built right into the cabinets plus the cooking surface is separate from the oven and built into the counter, odds are the appliances stay with the kitchen. 

But yes, one should always ask.


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