# Spousal visa - Work endorsement Help Please



## Saartjie

Hi,

I know this has probably been discussed one million times before but I am thoroughly confused and could really use some guidance.

I am Swedish, married to a South African. We have been married for 5 years and 3 months and we have a 6 month old baby. 

We moved back to SA in August last year and I am now here on a Temporary Residence Permit (spousal). Our baby was born here and so she is SA citizen by birth.

I have just been offered a brilliant job so I am looking to endorse my visa to work.

Living in one of the Joburg suburbs, I trotted down to Germiston HA this morning (what a delightful establishment, not) only to be told that they cannot help me and that I must return to the office that dealt with my original Temporary Residence application which was Bloemfontein as we initially stayed there.

After returning from Germiston I proceeded to call HA Customer Care (what a joke) help line. They said that Germiston was incorrect and that I should be able to attend any Regional office for this endorsement. 

I called Germiston and relayed the above but they were adamant that they cannot help me.

I called Customer Care again and this time they told me that I must go back to Bloemfontein.

I called Bloemfontein who said that I do not need to go back to them. Yes they dealt with my original application but as all applications are sent to Pretoria these days, they do not hold my file there. They said I should apply at the office that is closest to where I reside now.

Needless to say, I am now CONFUSED!!!

I need to get this sorted out asap as I do not want to lose my job offer. If I have to go to Bloemfontein then I will do so but I do not want to travel there unnecessarily.

Also, I am now eligible for permanent residence as I have been married for over 5 years but also as my daughter is SA citizen. Can I apply for this at the same time as the endorsement on the temporary one or do I have to wait for the endorsement to be granted first. If I do apply for permanent now, can the documents that were used for the temporary app be used as they would still be valid as application was done less than 6 months ago.

ANY help would be VERY appreciated.


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## Johanna

Saartjie said:


> Hi,
> 
> I know this has probably been discussed one million times before but I am thoroughly confused and could really use some guidance.
> 
> I am Swedish, married to a South African. We have been married for 5 years and 3 months and we have a 6 month old baby.
> 
> We moved back to SA in August last year and I am now here on a Temporary Residence Permit (spousal). Our baby was born here and so she is SA citizen by birth.
> 
> I have just been offered a brilliant job so I am looking to endorse my visa to work.
> 
> Living in one of the Joburg suburbs, I trotted down to Germiston HA this morning (what a delightful establishment, not) only to be told that they cannot help me and that I must return to the office that dealt with my original Temporary Residence application which was Bloemfontein as we initially stayed there.
> 
> After returning from Germiston I proceeded to call HA Customer Care (what a joke) help line. They said that Germiston was incorrect and that I should be able to attend any Regional office for this endorsement.
> 
> I called Germiston and relayed the above but they were adamant that they cannot help me.
> 
> I called Customer Care again and this time they told me that I must go back to Bloemfontein.
> 
> I called Bloemfontein who said that I do not need to go back to them. Yes they dealt with my original application but as all applications are sent to Pretoria these days, they do not hold my file there. They said I should apply at the office that is closest to where I reside now.
> 
> Needless to say, I am now CONFUSED!!!
> 
> I need to get this sorted out asap as I do not want to lose my job offer. If I have to go to Bloemfontein then I will do so but I do not want to travel there unnecessarily.
> 
> Also, I am now eligible for permanent residence as I have been married for over 5 years but also as my daughter is SA citizen. Can I apply for this at the same time as the endorsement on the temporary one or do I have to wait for the endorsement to be granted first. If I do apply for permanent now, can the documents that were used for the temporary app be used as they would still be valid as application was done less than 6 months ago.
> 
> ANY help would be VERY appreciated.


The best advice I can give is for you to send a pm to Joaschim on the threads, he deals with such matters.


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## Guest

Saartjie said:


> Hi,
> 
> I know this has probably been discussed one million times before but I am thoroughly confused and could really use some guidance.
> 
> I am Swedish, married to a South African. We have been married for 5 years and 3 months and we have a 6 month old baby.
> 
> We moved back to SA in August last year and I am now here on a Temporary Residence Permit (spousal). Our baby was born here and so she is SA citizen by birth.
> 
> I have just been offered a brilliant job so I am looking to endorse my visa to work.
> 
> Living in one of the Joburg suburbs, I trotted down to Germiston HA this morning (what a delightful establishment, not) only to be told that they cannot help me and that I must return to the office that dealt with my original Temporary Residence application which was Bloemfontein as we initially stayed there.
> 
> After returning from Germiston I proceeded to call HA Customer Care (what a joke) help line. They said that Germiston was incorrect and that I should be able to attend any Regional office for this endorsement.
> 
> I called Germiston and relayed the above but they were adamant that they cannot help me.
> 
> I called Customer Care again and this time they told me that I must go back to Bloemfontein.
> 
> I called Bloemfontein who said that I do not need to go back to them. Yes they dealt with my original application but as all applications are sent to Pretoria these days, they do not hold my file there. They said I should apply at the office that is closest to where I reside now.
> 
> Needless to say, I am now CONFUSED!!!
> 
> I need to get this sorted out asap as I do not want to lose my job offer. If I have to go to Bloemfontein then I will do so but I do not want to travel there unnecessarily.
> 
> Also, I am now eligible for permanent residence as I have been married for over 5 years but also as my daughter is SA citizen. Can I apply for this at the same time as the endorsement on the temporary one or do I have to wait for the endorsement to be granted first. If I do apply for permanent now, can the documents that were used for the temporary app be used as they would still be valid as application was done less than 6 months ago.
> 
> ANY help would be VERY appreciated.


Hi

You are correct, that the Spousal Permit issue has been dealt with a million times, but I am happy to respond, even it will be the one million and one'th time. Plus, your situation is a new example on this forum of what to expect from Home Affairs and its offices, but sadly one that happens more often than you might think.

Thank you Johanna for the endorsement!

Your case is a typical one when dealing with Home Affairs. No offices wants to do more work than they have to, so potential work is passed on.

The immigration legislation provides that your application shall be submitted in the area in which you reside or where your employer is located. This may change with the new legislation, but would not affect you.

But let us start at the top:

As a spouse to a South African, you may apply for a spousal permit (which you have). When you receive a job offer, one can add a work endorsement to that spousal permit. Only issue is that a completely new application will need to be submitted, along with the work endorsement papers.

Home Affairs currently claims to process applications within 30 days (reality is anything up to 6 months). However, there has been a court case in favour of spousal applicants that allowed them to start working after 30 days, should Home Affairs not provide a valid reason for the delay in issuing the permit.

The application should be submitted at the regional offices closest to you (or your employer).

Regarding Permanent Residency, this can be applied for now. You do not need to wait until you have the new temporary residency permit. Officially Home Affairs will take 6-12 months to process a Perm Res application. During this time you will need a valid temporary residency permit in order to live and work iin South Africa.

Hope this helps. If you have any more specific questions, please feel free to message me or post your comments here.

Regards, 

Joachim Schuckmann


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## Saartjie

Hi Joachim,

Thank you so much for that message. It really clarifies things for me. Dealing with HA is so frustrating so to hear a voice of reason is of great help.

So if I understand you correctly, I will need to make a completely new application for a Temporary Residency Permit with a work endorsement. I guess this means that I will need to obtain Police Clearance etc again as the previous one will be more than 6 months old now. My medical report and xrays should still be valid as they were done in December but these would still be in Bloemfontein I guess so I will have to redo these as well. What a hassle but if there is no other way then that is what I have to do.

I will apply for Permanent Residency at the same time.

Thanks again for your help.

Saartjie


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## Saartjie

Oh, I forgot to ask. Does anyone know how long the Police Clearance Certificate is valid for in SA? The certificate states it is valid for 12 months and mine is dated August 2010. It would be a hassle to apply for a new one as I no longer have an address in the UK where I used to live.


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## Guest

Saartjie said:


> Oh, I forgot to ask. Does anyone know how long the Police Clearance Certificate is valid for in SA? The certificate states it is valid for 12 months and mine is dated August 2010. It would be a hassle to apply for a new one as I no longer have an address in the UK where I used to live.


For the purposes of Home Affairs, the document may only be valid for 6 months. Anything older than that will not be accepted.

It was usually the case that if a police report or medical report had been submitted to Home Affairs for a previous application, then no new ones were required for subsequent applications. However, as you have seen yourself, there is no communication or cooperation between Home Affairs' offices, so you would need to obtain new ones.


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## Saartjie

Ok, but if I would return to Bloem to make my application there then presumably (if my file is still there) they should be able to use my previous Police Clearance or is that wishful thinking?


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## Guest

Saartjie said:


> Ok, but if I would return to Bloem to make my application there then presumably (if my file is still there) they should be able to use my previous Police Clearance or is that wishful thinking?


From our experience, and based on your experience, Bloem Home Affairs will not accept the application as you no longer live there, nor is your employer located there.

We deal with Home Affairs every single day, and these inconsistencies are nothing new. Thus, we advise all clients to rather obtain new reports as this leaves nothing to chance. For the police clearance one can submit a letter of undertaking should the police clearance not be available when the temporary residency application is submitted. For Perm Res, the actual police report is required.

But it is up to you. From experience, we rather try to avoid these uncertainties and advise our clients to take the hit and obtain new reports.


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## timhulse

Hi all,

I am moving to Johannesburg next Friday (13th) and already have a Spousal Temp Residency Visa. I have been offered the opportunity to purchase a franchise business in Jo'burg and just need to check what I would have to do to to get a work permit to run the business. Can I just get the franchisor to fill out the forms to add a work endorsement to my spousal permit or do I need to fill out a different form? I have been told I would need to fill out an 11(6)(b) visa/permit, but can't find it anywhere.

Joaschim, you seem to be the man when it comes to these problems, any advice or help would be greatly appreciated.

Tim


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## Guest

timhulse said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I am moving to Johannesburg next Friday (13th) and already have a Spousal Temp Residency Visa. I have been offered the opportunity to purchase a franchise business in Jo'burg and just need to check what I would have to do to to get a work permit to run the business. Can I just get the franchisor to fill out the forms to add a work endorsement to my spousal permit or do I need to fill out a different form? I have been told I would need to fill out an 11(6)(b) visa/permit, but can't find it anywhere.
> 
> Joaschim, you seem to be the man when it comes to these problems, any advice or help would be greatly appreciated.
> 
> Tim


Hi Tim

In your case I would advise adding a *Business Endorsement* to the Spousal Permit. This will allow you to operate your own business. 

Adding the Business Endorsement is slightly more complicated than the work endorsement, as there are more logistical and legal things to take into consideration when running a businesses.

For an application form used in South Africa is a different on than used when applying at the SA embassies, yes, as you would now be applying for a change of condition on your current permit.

Trust this answers your questions for now.


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## timhulse

Joaschim said:


> Hi Tim
> 
> In your case I would advise adding a *Business Endorsement* to the Spousal Permit. This will allow you to operate your own business.
> 
> Adding the Business Endorsement is slightly more complicated than the work endorsement, as there are more logistical and legal things to take into consideration when running a businesses.
> 
> For an application form used in South Africa is a different on than used when applying at the SA embassies, yes, as you would now be applying for a change of condition on your current permit.
> 
> Trust this answers your questions for now.


Thanks for that, do you know where I can get a look at the Business Endorsement form so I can check exactly whats needed to get this. And do you know how long this takes? Obviously I don't want to actually purchase the business and then find that I am having problems getting a visa to actually run it.

Thanks, Tim


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## Guest

timhulse said:


> Thanks for that, do you know where I can get a look at the Business Endorsement form so I can check exactly whats needed to get this. And do you know how long this takes? Obviously I don't want to actually purchase the business and then find that I am having problems getting a visa to actually run it.
> 
> Thanks, Tim


Hi

There is no special form for the endorsement. General information is on the generic application form, and some details in the legislation. There are further requirements which have come up over time, which you can try to obtain from Affairs, although you might find this very furstrating as a lot of information and feedback is inconsisten and at time conflicting.

If you approach immigration companies, they would not provide more details than I have as they/we do charge for this kind of info.

Once submitted, Home Affairs currently takes 3-6 months to process a temporary residency application, although the official position of Home Affairs is 30 days. Trust me, that is not the case!

If the application is submitted at a South African embassy, it would take about 10-15 days for the application to be processed.

Hope this helps. 

Regards, 

Joachim


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## Skilled

Hello Joachim

I was wondering if you can help me as well. I applied and got a Quota Work Permit. Good heh? No, thanks. The regional office i used to apply for the permit, captured the application details incorrectly and eventually I got a Quota Work Permit with wrong information. My permit does not state the professional category i applied for. It should state something like 

*"to work under the category of ICT. Section 19(1) report to the DHA after 90days and every year"*

But,

it says to work for XYZ company. This is a company that i used to work for and its letter was a proof of the required experience.

When i went for the assistance, i was told to fill a "change of conditions" form which effectively means I have to wait again.

Do you think there is a shorter way of rectifying the problem?


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## Guest

Skilled said:


> Hello Joachim
> 
> I was wondering if you can help me as well. I applied and got a Quota Work Permit. Good heh? No, thanks. The regional office i used to apply for the permit, captured the application details incorrectly and eventually I got a Quota Work Permit with wrong information. My permit does not state the professional category i applied for. It should state something like
> 
> *"to work under the category of ICT. Section 19(1) report to the DHA after 90days and every year"*
> 
> But,
> 
> it says to work for XYZ company. This is a company that i used to work for and its letter was a proof of the required experience.
> 
> When i went for the assistance, i was told to fill a "change of conditions" form which effectively means I have to wait again.
> 
> Do you think there is a shorter way of rectifying the problem?


Hi

Seems like something that Home Affairs would do. I have see this before, and unfortunately you will need to approach Home Affairs to have this corrected. With the changes at Home Affairs this should not take too long (let's stay optimistic), but you are correct.

Unfortunately there is little that I can add, as you have the correct information. There is no shorter route to have the permit corrected.


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## irishexpat

Hi,

I recently (February) renewed my (I hope) spousal permit. I had previously been studying and Wits and residing with my SA spouse, according to the sticker on my passport. Then I received a job offer.
I applied for an endorsement on my permit on March 23. As you suggest is the process, they demanded all my documents again as if it was a new application. I discovered a month later that they had not officially received the application. Back to Harrison St in Joburg with my receipt, where they found and "Accepted" my application.
I therefore called the helpline on 0800601190 to see if they could speed things up. They had me fax everything through.
A week later I called to check on progress. They advised me that I needed to send through further documentation - to be precise, all the documentation required for a general work permit. 
I pointed out that I was applying for an endorsement, but it made no difference. As far as the helpline is concerned, there is no difference as the law had just changed. I asked for evidence of this, and they admitted that they had received no new instructions but had unilaterally applied these requirements based on the rumour that things might change. The operator advised that I simply wait for my original application to reach Pretoria and hope they apply the right criteria.

I'm still waiting for this, but in the meantime I notice that, although I specifically applied for a spousal visa, the sticker in my passport has "relatives" written on it.
So my questions are:

1. As my most recent application is effectively a new one for a spousal visa with work endorsement for my new job, should I worry about the "relatives" written on the current one?

2. If they drag out this process for much longer, what can I say to my employer who naturally wants to see a permit that says I can work?

3. If Home Affairs decide not to endorse me because they think they can unilaterally overturn constitutional court decisions, what can I do?

4. Isn't all of this - including the administrative requirement to incur expense, apply and wait for a new permit when - and not until - a job offer is received,a de facto breach of my constitutional rights and against the spirit of the constitutional court decisions in this matter?

Thanks all.


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## Guest

irishexpat said:


> Hi,
> 
> I recently (February) renewed my (I hope) spousal permit. I had previously been studying and Wits and residing with my SA spouse, according to the sticker on my passport. Then I received a job offer.
> I applied for an endorsement on my permit on March 23. As you suggest is the process, they demanded all my documents again as if it was a new application. I discovered a month later that they had not officially received the application. Back to Harrison St in Joburg with my receipt, where they found and "Accepted" my application.
> I therefore called the helpline on 0800601190 to see if they could speed things up. They had me fax everything through.
> A week later I called to check on progress. They advised me that I needed to send through further documentation - to be precise, all the documentation required for a general work permit.
> I pointed out that I was applying for an endorsement, but it made no difference. As far as the helpline is concerned, there is no difference as the law had just changed. I asked for evidence of this, and they admitted that they had received no new instructions but had unilaterally applied these requirements based on the rumour that things might change. The operator advised that I simply wait for my original application to reach Pretoria and hope they apply the right criteria.
> 
> I'm still waiting for this, but in the meantime I notice that, although I specifically applied for a spousal visa, the sticker in my passport has "relatives" written on it.
> So my questions are:
> 
> 1. As my most recent application is effectively a new one for a spousal visa with work endorsement for my new job, should I worry about the "relatives" written on the current one?
> 
> 2. If they drag out this process for much longer, what can I say to my employer who naturally wants to see a permit that says I can work?
> 
> 3. If Home Affairs decide not to endorse me because they think they can unilaterally overturn constitutional court decisions, what can I do?
> 
> 4. Isn't all of this - including the administrative requirement to incur expense, apply and wait for a new permit when - and not until - a job offer is received,a de facto breach of my constitutional rights and against the spirit of the constitutional court decisions in this matter?
> 
> Thanks all.


Hi

One cannot add a work endorsement onto a *Relative's Permit* as per S18(2) of the immigration Act. One can, however, add a work or business endorsement to a *Life Partner* or *Spousal Permit* (kindly refer to S11(6) of the Immigration Act)

Many embassies issue Relative Permits instead of Life Partner/Spousal Permit, which is wrong, but it is difficutl getting them to change the way they do things. As posted previously, we are making progress with some embassies, but unfortunately not all.

Consequently, once a foreign national comes to South Africa and they want to work, we change their status to a Life Partner/Spousal permit and apply for an added work endorsement.

*The law has not yet been implemented*. It goes to Parliament one last time in mid June, after which it sill needs to be signed by the President before it becomes law. So in the end, nobody really knows when it will come into effect.

But even when this happens, the changes would not affect Life Partner permits.

In terms of the *Constitution*, Home Affairs would only be in breach if it were to forbid you from living here, unless there were reasonable grounds. 

The *Constitution*, however, does not take away the legal obligation of every foreign national to comply with the requirements as set out in the Immigration legislation. 

Thus, although it can be a great nuisance and perhaps financial burden to apply for a permit in order to live and work in South Africa, this does not infringe on your Constitutional Rights. It is frustrating but not illegal (unless you can prove that Home Affairs is specifically targeting you personally).

You can try to take Home Affairs to court, as many other have done, in order to have your case highlighted and hopefully expidite the processing. You may even try to claim for loss of income, but that in itself will prove time consuming and expensive.

Hope this helps.


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## irishexpat

Joaschim said:


> Hi
> 
> One cannot add a work endorsement onto a *Relative's Permit* as per S18(2) of the immigration Act. One can, however, add a work or business endorsement to a *Life Partner* or *Spousal Permit* (kindly refer to S11(6) of the Immigration Act)
> 
> Many embassies issue Relative Permits instead of Life Partner/Spousal Permit, which is wrong, but it is difficutl getting them to change the way they do things. As posted previously, we are making progress with some embassies, but unfortunately not all.
> 
> Consequently, once a foreign national comes to South Africa and they want to work, we change their status to a Life Partner/Spousal permit and apply for an added work endorsement.
> 
> *The law has not yet been implemented*. It goes to Parliament one last time in mid June, after which it sill needs to be signed by the President before it becomes law. So in the end, nobody really knows when it will come into effect.
> 
> But even when this happens, the changes would not affect Life Partner permits.
> 
> In terms of the *Constitution*, Home Affairs would only be in breach if it were to forbid you from living here, unless there were reasonable grounds.
> 
> The *Constitution*, however, does not take away the legal obligation of every foreign national to comply with the requirements as set out in the Immigration legislation.
> 
> Thus, although it can be a great nuisance and perhaps financial burden to apply for a permit in order to live and work in South Africa, this does not infringe on your Constitutional Rights. It is frustrating but not illegal (unless you can prove that Home Affairs is specifically targeting you personally).
> 
> You can try to take Home Affairs to court, as many other have done, in order to have your case highlighted and hopefully expidite the processing. You may even try to claim for loss of income, but that in itself will prove time consuming and expensive.
> 
> Hope this helps.


Just to be clear, I applied for a spousal permit and permission to continue studying in South Africa after my marriage in 2008 - having been resident legally on a student permit since 2004 - the sticker I got said "to continue studying and to reside with SA spouse". 
I applied to renew that permit - but not to study having just finished - in December last year, at Harrison Street in Johannesburg, not abroad. I specifically applied for a spousal permit and provided the documentation required for such a permit. 
It was renewed in March and says "to reside with SA spouse" but has relatives permit written on it. Is this an error in writing the permit out? Is there a number on the permit that would identify its purpose?
It seems it is incumbent on me then to ensure specifically that the local home affairs office files under S11(6) rather than S18(2) and not just trust them to know what the term "spousal visa" means. 
The current application receipt is certainly for S11(6) so at least the right visa and endorsement is now being considered.

The constitutional rights I was referring to were those under Booysens and Others v Minister for Home Affairs and Another 2001 in the Constitutional Court which confirmed an earlier Cape High Court case, directed that the Department of Home Affairs may not refuse any application for a work permit from a foreign spouse unless good grounds can be proven for doing so, that the requirements for advertising, interviewing and checking whether sufficient South Africans are available were constitutionally invalid in the case of foreign spouses and that all such applications must be finalized within 30 working days. 
This is the basis for immigration advice that I've been given, indeed I thought it was the basis for the spousal permit endorsement in the first place, if this is not the case I really need to know!


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## Saartjie

Hi,

After a lot of phoning around I have now finally managed to figure out where to go for my application.

I managed to get hold of an extremely helpful man at Home Affairs (yes I found one after speaking to about 20 useless people). I also realised that my residence permit states 'Relative' rather than 'Spousal'. After speaking to this guy I now understand that I have been issued with the wrong permit and that I can therefore not get a work endorsement on this. This is even though I used a lawyer here in SA to do my residence application for me.

The permit that I require is the s11(6) permit. I have an appointment next week with Home Affairs to submit a new application for this permit. I have to submit all my previous paperwork plus a letter offering employment.

I am so mad at the lawyer who applied for the wrong permit. I specifically told him that I wanted a spousal permit so that I could apply for work endorsement.

Anyway, hopefully this will now be sorted out, although I will not be calm until I have the new correct permit in my hand. As soon as I have that I will start my permanent residence application. Can't wait for that one for sure.

Saartjie


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## Saartjie

irishexpat said:


> Just to be clear, I applied for a spousal permit and permission to continue studying in South Africa after my marriage in 2008 - having been resident legally on a student permit since 2004 - the sticker I got said "to continue studying and to reside with SA spouse".
> I applied to renew that permit - but not to study having just finished - in December last year, at Harrison Street in Johannesburg, not abroad. I specifically applied for a spousal permit and provided the documentation required for such a permit.
> It was renewed in March and says "to reside with SA spouse" but has relatives permit written on it. Is this an error in writing the permit out? Is there a number on the permit that would identify its purpose?
> It seems it is incumbent on me then to ensure specifically that the local home affairs office files under S11(6) rather than S18(2) and not just trust them to know what the term "spousal visa" means.
> The current application receipt is certainly for S11(6) so at least the right visa and endorsement is now being considered.
> 
> The constitutional rights I was referring to were those under Booysens and Others v Minister for Home Affairs and Another 2001 in the Constitutional Court which confirmed an earlier Cape High Court case, directed that the Department of Home Affairs may not refuse any application for a work permit from a foreign spouse unless good grounds can be proven for doing so, that the requirements for advertising, interviewing and checking whether sufficient South Africans are available were constitutionally invalid in the case of foreign spouses and that all such applications must be finalized within 30 working days.
> This is the basis for immigration advice that I've been given, indeed I thought it was the basis for the spousal permit endorsement in the first place, if this is not the case I really need to know!


Hi, my permit also states 'to reside with SA spouse' however it is still not a spousal visa but a relatives visa. I specifically asked for spousal but ended up with this.


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## Guest

Saartjie said:


> Hi,
> 
> After a lot of phoning around I have now finally managed to figure out where to go for my application.
> 
> I managed to get hold of an extremely helpful man at Home Affairs (yes I found one after speaking to about 20 useless people). I also realised that my residence permit states 'Relative' rather than 'Spousal'. After speaking to this guy I now understand that I have been issued with the wrong permit and that I can therefore not get a work endorsement on this. This is even though I used a lawyer here in SA to do my residence application for me.
> 
> The permit that I require is the s11(6) permit. I have an appointment next week with Home Affairs to submit a new application for this permit. I have to submit all my previous paperwork plus a letter offering employment.
> 
> I am so mad at the lawyer who applied for the wrong permit. I specifically told him that I wanted a spousal permit so that I could apply for work endorsement.
> 
> Anyway, hopefully this will now be sorted out, although I will not be calm until I have the new correct permit in my hand. As soon as I have that I will start my permanent residence application. Can't wait for that one for sure.
> 
> Saartjie


Hi Saartjie

Remember that immigration lawyers and immigration consultants deal with the same problems that you do. *Nobody can control Home Affairs*.

Assuming that the lawyer you used did everything correctly, these mistakes do happen, and with Home Affairs they happen a lot!

I would *ask *your lawyer for a *complete copy of the application* they submitted. There you will be able to see what they did. If the lawyer messed it up then demand that they redo it or demand a refund.

If you find that they did in fact complete the correct application, but the mistake happend with Home Affairs, then that is unfortunately another example of Home Affairs' inefficiency.

We immigration consultants and lawyers have the same problems with Home Affairs as you do. Multiply your frustration by the number of clients each of us have, and you can imagine what our work day looks like . 

The difference is that those of us, who know what to do and who have the client's interest at heart, can pre-empt many mistakes, and we can make the necessary arrangements before hand. And of course we can quickly see where Home Affairs has meesed up, whereas often the applicant can tell the difference until it is too late.

Like I said, ask for a copy of your application from your lawyer and have a look at what they did. That should give you a good idea of who messed it up.

On the Permanent Residency, just to confirm that you have been in a relationship (or married) for 5 years. If not, then you do not yet qualify for Permanent Residency.

Regards, 

Joachim


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## Saartjie

Joaschim said:


> Hi Saartjie
> 
> Remember that immigration lawyers and immigration consultants deal with the same problems that you do. *Nobody can control Home Affairs*.
> 
> Assuming that the lawyer you used did everything correctly, these mistakes do happen, and with Home Affairs they happen a lot!
> 
> I would *ask *your lawyer for a *complete copy of the application* they submitted. There you will be able to see what they did. If the lawyer messed it up then demand that they redo it or demand a refund.
> 
> If you find that they did in fact complete the correct application, but the mistake happend with Home Affairs, then that is unfortunately another example of Home Affairs' inefficiency.
> 
> We immigration consultants and lawyers have the same problems with Home Affairs as you do. Multiply your frustration by the number of clients each of us have, and you can imagine what our work day looks like .
> 
> The difference is that those of us, who know what to do and who have the client's interest at heart, can pre-empt many mistakes, and we can make the necessary arrangements before hand. And of course we can quickly see where Home Affairs has meesed up, whereas often the applicant can tell the difference until it is too late.
> 
> Like I said, ask for a copy of your application from your lawyer and have a look at what they did. That should give you a good idea of who messed it up.
> 
> On the Permanent Residency, just to confirm that you have been in a relationship (or married) for 5 years. If not, then you do not yet qualify for Permanent Residency.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Joachim


Hi Joachim,
I will ask for a copy of my application to see what happened for sure. It is however easy to assume that the mistake might be HA rather than the lawyer.

Been married for 5 years and 3 months and we have a daughter who was born here so she is South African. I am planning to apply for PR on the basis of my child being South African rather than my marriage as I understand it might simplify things slightly or am I wrong in thinking that?

Saartjie


----------



## Guest

Saartjie said:


> Hi Joachim,
> I will ask for a copy of my application to see what happened for sure. It is however easy to assume that the mistake might be HA rather than the lawyer.
> 
> Been married for 5 years and 3 months and we have a daughter who was born here so she is South African. I am planning to apply for PR on the basis of my child being South African rather than my marriage as I understand it might simplify things slightly or am I wrong in thinking that?
> 
> Saartjie


Hi

As you have been married for over 5 years, it would not make a real difference.

The only difference would be that should you get a divorce, your eligibility ceases for Permanent Residency (and the Spousal Permit). It is not something one likes too think about, but I am just brainstorming here. 

So, applying for Permanent Resicency on the basis of your child's status might be "safer" as that relationship will not change.


----------



## Saartjie

Joaschim said:


> Hi
> 
> As you have been married for over 5 years, it would not make a real difference.
> 
> The only difference would be that should you get a divorce, your eligibility ceases for Permanent Residency (and the Spousal Permit). It is not something one likes too think about, but I am just brainstorming here.
> 
> So, applying for Permanent Resicency on the basis of your child's status might be "safer" as that relationship will not change.


Ok, I see what you say. As planned I think I will apply on the basis of my child's status then. Feels like all I have been doing since arriving here is dealing with HA. Once all of this is sorted I will be a much happier woman for sure. 

On a different note I managed to take a short cut with regards to my daughter's Un-Abridged Birth Certificate. Applied for it in December 2010 and was told the minimum waiting time was 5 months and I am still waiting for that one. Contacted the South African embassy in my country who agreed to help. Got a text from Home Affairs in Pretoria a week later and picked up the Certificate the next day. So you can get things done with a bit of imagination (and hard work).


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## irishexpat

Just to be sure my current application isn't a waste of time: If understand correctly, my current visa being a relatives visa shouldnt matter becase i have had to make a new application entirely. Not "work endorsement to" my spousal visa, but "spousal visa with work endorsement" which will replace any previous visa relative or spousal, have got that right?


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## Guest

irishexpat said:


> Just to be sure my current application isn't a waste of time: If understand correctly, my current visa being a relatives visa shouldnt matter becase i have had to make a new application entirely. Not "work endorsement to" my spousal visa, but "spousal visa with work endorsement" which will replace any previous visa relative or spousal, have got that right?


It does not really matter how you phrase it. As long as one stays away from the term "Relative's Permit".


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## signol

Hi there, yet another question for a British citizen married to a South African. We have a child who is dual national. We are considering moving (back) to SA. Am I right in thinking that the visa I will need is the Permanent Residency (Spousal)? In order to work, will I also need an additional "work permit" or is this allowed with the spouse permit?
Thanks!
signol


----------



## Saartjie

signol said:


> Hi there, yet another question for a British citizen married to a South African. We have a child who is dual national. We are considering moving (back) to SA. Am I right in thinking that the visa I will need is the Permanent Residency (Spousal)? In order to work, will I also need an additional "work permit" or is this allowed with the spouse permit?
> Thanks!
> signol


You can apply for a Temporary Residence Permit under the spousal category but if you do, make sure that is what they grant you so you dont (like me) end up with a Relatives permit which cannot be endorsed for work. The Spousal permit does not automatically entitle you to work. You have to get a job offer first and either include this with your original application or if you do not yet have a job offer, you can apply to have your Temporary Spousal visa endorsed at a later stage. From my very current experience though, if you can apply for the work endorsement straight away, that will save you a lot of trouble.

If your child has dual nationality you should be able to apply for permanent residence on the basis of your South African child. This will entitle you to work. My daugher is also dual and we are about to start my permanent residency application. The problem is that it takes a long time for this to be granted. Home Affairs told me the other day that the waiting time currently can be 24 months. As such, if you plan to come soon and want to work, your best bet would be to get your temporary residency (spousal) sorted first. Hope this helps.


----------



## signol

Saartjie said:


> You can apply for a Temporary Residence Permit under the spousal category but if you do, make sure that is what they grant you so you dont (like me) end up with a Relatives permit which cannot be endorsed for work. The Spousal permit does not automatically entitle you to work. You have to get a job offer first and either include this with your original application or if you do not yet have a job offer, you can apply to have your Temporary Spousal visa endorsed at a later stage. From my very current experience though, if you can apply for the work endorsement straight away, that will save you a lot of trouble.
> 
> If your child has dual nationality you should be able to apply for permanent residence on the basis of your South African child. This will entitle you to work. My daugher is also dual and we are about to start my permanent residency application. The problem is that it takes a long time for this to be granted. Home Affairs told me the other day that the waiting time currently can be 24 months. As such, if you plan to come soon and want to work, your best bet would be to get your temporary residency (spousal) sorted first. Hope this helps.


Thanks, that's very helpful. Our 5 year wedding anniversary will be October 2012 so plenty of time yet!

signol


----------



## verybusymum

*confusion over permit*

Hi my son is living in cape town with his life partner and he is trying to get a job. He was offered a job , but did not have his visa endorsed for work. The company cannot wait 2-4 months for the process is complete. I have said surely this cannot take that long, but he went to the foreign affairs and they said yes it does! How will he ever get work, no one is going to keep a vacancy open for that long. Now he has lost his job!
Anyone got any advise for him please?


----------



## Kimbasil

I'm not sure, but I am under the impression that if the endorsement is on a spousal/ life partner visa then it should be processed within 30 days. (I know that this is not the case) 
But with this in mind, if they don't refuse the work endorsement within 30 days then I think that you are ok to consider it approved and carry on working.
At least this is what I am going to do as I have had a job offer and am about to apply for my work endorsement.
Please feel free to tell me I am wrong if anyone knows otherwise.....I don't want to get into trouble!


----------



## irishexpat

Kimbasil said:


> I'm not sure, but I am under the impression that if the endorsement is on a spousal/ life partner visa then it should be processed within 30 days. (I know that this is not the case)
> But with this in mind, if they don't refuse the work endorsement within 30 days then I think that you are ok to consider it approved and carry on working.
> At least this is what I am going to do as I have had a job offer and am about to apply for my work endorsement.
> Please feel free to tell me I am wrong if anyone knows otherwise.....I don't want to get into trouble!


I'm in the same position. After many, many queries and comparing notes with others in the same boat and finally, blagging my way into the office of a Home Affairs official in Harrison Street to find someone who might actually know, it seems that you will always be issued a relatives permit as a foreign spouse/life partner if you apply simply to reside without having a job offer. They only give you the spousal visa with endorsement when you include your offer of employment in the application.
They are required to process it within 30 working days and cannot refuse it without providing good reason for believing you, individually, are a problem.

If they fail to provide you a refusal or permit within that time, they are in breach.
However, if you work before you get the permit, you are in breach. 
Simply put, Home Affairs admit to being incapable of living up to their end of the law but declare that you will face action if you try to circumvent them.

So, you can either obey the law and lose your job, or disobey the law and work with the connivance of your employer on the basis that you will eventually get approved.
There is some anecdotal evidence to suggest that the courts would not enforce any action on you should you be charged with working without the permit. But this is not a guarantee and so both you and your employer have to be willing to take the risk. 
In the words of the Home affairs official in the Harrison Street: "Those are your options. Welcome to South Africa boet."


----------



## Saartjie

verybusymum said:


> Hi my son is living in cape town with his life partner and he is trying to get a job. He was offered a job , but did not have his visa endorsed for work. The company cannot wait 2-4 months for the process is complete. I have said surely this cannot take that long, but he went to the foreign affairs and they said yes it does! How will he ever get work, no one is going to keep a vacancy open for that long. Now he has lost his job!
> Anyone got any advise for him please?


Hi there,

Totally understand the confusion and frustration. I am waiting for my work endorsement. I applied on the 31st May and my application has still not even been sent to Pretoria (I applied in Germiston). The company that provided me with a job offer are luckily allowing me to do some work whilst waiting. They gave me the job offer on the 11th April and as we are now almost 4 months down the line and nothing is happening they have allowed me to start working a bit so that I can hold on to my position until I eventually get the endorsement. 

HA is useless and totally under staffed and as such it is near impossible to get hold of anyone and when you do they cannot answer any questions since until the application is actually on the system and sent to Pretoria they have no information to go on. I have spoken to many many people who have lost their job offers because of this. To add to the irritation, as the work endorsement is job specific, if you apply for the endorsement and then lose the offer then the endorsement will be of no use once you get it as it will be for the job that you no longer have. It makes you want to tear your hair out for sure. Hope your son can sort his work etc out.


----------



## Brulpadda

Hi Joachim,
Could you tell me how to apply for a work endorsement? My partners has just moved to SA and his tourist visa expires next month. We are about to submit his application for temp res, and now he has an offer of employment so we would like to submit all the applications together. As I understand it, if applying for work on spousal grounds, you dont have to go through the whole work permit palaver, but can just apply for a work endorsement with temporary residency? What papers are required for this other than the job offer? 
Thanks for your help,
Dominique


----------



## Johanna

Brulpadda said:


> Hi Joachim,
> Could you tell me how to apply for a work endorsement? My partners has just moved to SA and his tourist visa expires next month. We are about to submit his application for temp res, and now he has an offer of employment so we would like to submit all the applications together. As I understand it, if applying for work on spousal grounds, you dont have to go through the whole work permit palaver, but can just apply for a work endorsement with temporary residency? What papers are required for this other than the job offer?
> Thanks for your help,
> Dominique


Try the following, although it is not free:

Endorsements (work, business, study) for South African immigrants, Spouses and Life partners


----------



## niknik88

Joaschim said:


> Hi
> 
> You are correct, that the Spousal Permit issue has been dealt with a million times, but I am happy to respond, even it will be the one million and one'th time. Plus, your situation is a new example on this forum of what to expect from Home Affairs and its offices, but sadly one that happens more often than you might think.
> 
> Thank you Johanna for the endorsement!
> 
> Your case is a typical one when dealing with Home Affairs. No offices wants to do more work than they have to, so potential work is passed on.
> 
> The immigration legislation provides that your application shall be submitted in the area in which you reside or where your employer is located. This may change with the new legislation, but would not affect you.
> 
> But let us start at the top:
> 
> As a spouse to a South African, you may apply for a spousal permit (which you have). When you receive a job offer, one can add a work endorsement to that spousal permit. Only issue is that a completely new application will need to be submitted, along with the work endorsement papers.
> 
> Home Affairs currently claims to process applications within 30 days (reality is anything up to 6 months). However, there has been a court case in favour of spousal applicants that allowed them to start working after 30 days, should Home Affairs not provide a valid reason for the delay in issuing the permit.
> 
> The application should be submitted at the regional offices closest to you (or your employer).
> 
> Regarding Permanent Residency, this can be applied for now. You do not need to wait until you have the new temporary residency permit. Officially Home Affairs will take 6-12 months to process a Perm Res application. During this time you will need a valid temporary residency permit in order to live and work iin South Africa.
> 
> Hope this helps. If you have any more specific questions, please feel free to message me or post your comments here.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Joachim Schuckmann


Hi Joachim,

I spoke to the help desk at Home affairs and they told me that I can change my work endorsement with a change of conditions form, is that right? They also told me I only need the new contract but when I got to the Home affairs office they told me I needed copies of my original application. Do you know if I can change the employer without starting the application all over again?


----------



## Saartjie

niknik88 said:


> Hi Joachim,
> 
> I spoke to the help desk at Home affairs and they told me that I can change my work endorsement with a change of conditions form, is that right? They also told me I only need the new contract but when I got to the Home affairs office they told me I needed copies of my original application. Do you know if I can change the employer without starting the application all over again?


I would also like an answer to that question. At Germiston HA they tell me that I have to make a full application. To change the conditions on your permit (which is what I did last time to get my work endorsement) you need to complete form BI-1740 which I attach to here so you can see what it looks like.
View attachment DHA - IAA - BI-1740 CoPS.pdf
As you can see it requires you to provide all the documents that is required for any other application (ie medical, xrays, police clearance etc etc) plus your new employment contract. I really do not see the point of having to supply these documents again just because you are changing jobs but it is hard to argue with HA on this point. 

For various reasons I am considering changing employers (been offered a new job) but the prospect of having to go through another application just scares the living daylight out of me (considering the last one took 10 months). So I am not sure it is worth it.

However, if someone knows of a way to change the employer without doing the full application I would really like to know. Otherwise I will just have to wait for my PR to come through as I think that will be quicker than making a new TR application in the meantime.


----------



## Cueball

Hi all,

I thought I'd post here rather than start a new thread, as I'm also in the process of applying for a visa. 

Basically, I've only been married for four years, but my wife and I have been living together, sharing bank accounts and bringing up children for nearly eight years now. If we weren't married, I'd qualify for straghtforward permanent residency, under the definition of a 'spousal relationship', as far as I can tell. But since we are married, the embassy is telling me I can only apply for temporary residency - which is a problem because I'm a self-employed journalist, so can't get a work endorsement to allow me to earn easily.

Has anyone tried to push against the definition of a 'spousal relationship' as defined by the immigration act?


----------



## niknik88

Cueball said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I thought I'd post here rather than start a new thread, as I'm also in the process of applying for a visa.
> 
> Basically, I've only been married for four years, but my wife and I have been living together, sharing bank accounts and bringing up children for nearly eight years now. If we weren't married, I'd qualify for straghtforward permanent residency, under the definition of a 'spousal relationship', as far as I can tell. But since we are married, the embassy is telling me I can only apply for temporary residency - which is a problem because I'm a self-employed journalist, so can't get a work endorsement to allow me to earn easily.
> 
> Has anyone tried to push against the definition of a 'spousal relationship' as defined by the immigration act?


Hi, I don't know about the definitions but I do know that when applying for a spousal visa you can apply to set up your own business and be self-employed as the work authorisation. It was one thing I looked at and was only a couple of different forms


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## Cueball

niknik88 said:


> Hi, I don't know about the definitions but I do know that when applying for a spousal visa you can apply to set up your own business and be self-employed as the work authorisation. It was one thing I looked at and was only a couple of different forms


My reading of that is that you need R2.5m in capital and a promise to employ at least five people, though. Neither of which I could do


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## niknik88

The way I was told was I would be the sole proprietor of whatever name I gave my business and I would work from home (I'm a zoologist and we lived on the reserves where we worked) apart from the forms all I would have had to do was register with SARS as self-employed. I'll have a look and see if I can find any of the forms or emails from my immigration practitioner at the time


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## Cueball

Thanks Nik Nik. That gives me a bit of hope - I'll ask again at the embassy and see what they say. Fingers crossed.


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## niknik88

Ok so I've found the template I was given, I was told I just needed to fill in my details and sign an undertaking to register with SARS and then it would be added to my application.

CONFIRMATION OF SELF EMPLOYMENT / OWN BUSINESS



I, (Name), with Passport number ..... and the spouse of a South African Citizen, (Name and ID No.) herewith confirm the following,



1. I am a (please fill in your qualification and training).
*I am specialized in.....

2. My business will be conducted from my home, currently:
(Please fill in your address). My business is based on……………………
I am planning to run the business as a sole proprietor.

3. The business will trade under the name (Please fill in a name of your business”.

4. I would like to support the relationship financially by utilising my skills and expertise and contribute to the relationship in this manner,





SIGNED at……………ON THIS………………..DAY OF………………2010



____________


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## Cueball

Blimey - thanks for digging that out NikNik, I owe you one. I just hope the embassy here has heard of the same clause


----------



## Saartjie

Cueball said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I thought I'd post here rather than start a new thread, as I'm also in the process of applying for a visa.
> 
> Basically, I've only been married for four years, but my wife and I have been living together, sharing bank accounts and bringing up children for nearly eight years now. If we weren't married, I'd qualify for straghtforward permanent residency, under the definition of a 'spousal relationship', as far as I can tell. But since we are married, the embassy is telling me I can only apply for temporary residency - which is a problem because I'm a self-employed journalist, so can't get a work endorsement to allow me to earn easily.
> 
> Has anyone tried to push against the definition of a 'spousal relationship' as defined by the immigration act?


Hi there, they used to be very strict with regards to this definition. When I arrived in SA in 2010 I had only been married for 4 years and eight months but my husband and I had been together for 10 years and living together for 9 years. I was still not allowed to apply for PR and had to go for TR. HOWEVER, it seems that things might have changed. If you look at other threads people are saying that you do not actually have to be married but must only be able to show a 'spousal relationship'. I was actually on the website of the South African Embassy in Sweden (where I am from) the other day and found the following (in relation to PR application):-

_(b) Has been the spouse* of a South African citizen or permanent resident for five (5) years and the Director-General is satisfied that a good faith spousal relationship exists, provided that such permit shall lapse if at any time within two (2) years from the issuing of that permit, the good faith spousal relationship no longer subsists, save for the case of death;

*A spouse means a person who is a party to:

A marriage, or a customary union; or
A permanent homosexual or heterosexual relationship, as prescribed.

Please note that the holder of a permanent residence permit issued under this category shall, after a period of two (2) years since the issuing of that permit, inform the Director-General whether or not the good faith spousal relationship still exists by submitting to the Director-General an affidavit in the prescribed manner._

So as you can see, it appears that marriage is no longer a must for PR.


----------



## Lisalouise

Hi all!! I wondering if anyone had a template or an example of a work offer for the work endorsement? I need to write it for my husbands boss as he is in the USA and he will sign. Any ideas? I know how hectic HA can be so I just want to make sure we have all or t's crossed and i's dotted  Also, does anyone have a template for the letter that one gets home affairs to sign stating that its ok for him to remain in SA once his visitors visa expires because he's applied for his spousal visa?


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## AlMassino

I must say that using a lawyer is not better than doing things yourself. I used a lawyer since march 2011 until now and they did not do a good job. And i paid a lot. I applied for section 11(6) with serious prayer and fasting and it came out in less than a month. I got confirmation sms after a week and after 3 weeks the final collection sms. I had a relatives permit to reside with my wife we married for 4 years next month.

My wife (SA) citizen myself used actual police affidavits ( go to the police station and say you want to write one). Write all your stories in there.

Also a letter of employment from your new job, its the signed contract letter stating all the conditions and income.

I also wrote a motivation in the extra information space on the form. 

Relatives permit is a different permit than sec(11)6. Section 11(6) allows you to reside with your spouse as a visitor and work only if you got a offer or want to start your own business.

Also if your police report(s) are not ready they will process the application once you submit an affidavits that you promise to submit within the next six months.

Am currently working outside SA, was in SA for 2 months hoping to get my permit applied for since 2011 vis a lawyer but no luck i had to return, but applied just before i left my self instead of using a lawyer and in less that a month it was ready, am now going back to start my new job in september. DHA said they will keep my permit till i return to collect it.

There is a clause with sec 11(6) that one must apply for PR after 3 months of getting the permit. My wife asked and was told that we should get this pasted first. So we plan to ask about that clause in August. I will post our outcome here then.


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## Saartjie

Lisalouise said:


> Hi all!! I wondering if anyone had a template or an example of a work offer for the work endorsement? I need to write it for my husbands boss as he is in the USA and he will sign. Any ideas? I know how hectic HA can be so I just want to make sure we have all or t's crossed and i's dotted  Also, does anyone have a template for the letter that one gets home affairs to sign stating that its ok for him to remain in SA once his visitors visa expires because he's applied for his spousal visa?


Hi, the letter should be addressed to Home Affairs and basically just needs to state that the company has offered him a position. It should detail what the position is and in my letter my employer also stated my annual salary and that was about it. When I submitted my application Home Affairs also wanted to see my signed employment contract so I brought a certified copy of that as well. It had a clause in it that said that the employment contract would come into effect once the relevant work permit had been obtained from Home Affairs.

There is no letter to sign in relation to remaining in SA whilst awaiting the permit application. It is a specific form that you must collect from Home Affairs. I think it is called Form 20 and this form must be signed and stamped by HA and you also need to supply a photograph which they will attach to the form. Once this has been done then your husband can remain in SA whilst awaiting the outcome of his application.


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## jhen8305

hi...

My mom is a permanent resident here in SA but I am in a relatives permit is there any chance that i could get a work permit endorsement also?


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## Saartjie

jhen8305 said:


> hi...
> 
> My mom is a permanent resident here in SA but I am in a relatives permit is there any chance that i could get a work permit endorsement also?


Hi, a straight forward Relatives permit cannot be endorsed for work unfortunately. Why don't you apply for Permanent Residency instead. If your mum has PR then you would qualify under section 27 (g) of the Immigration Act as you are _'a relative of a citizen or permanent resident within the first step of kinship'._ Then you do not need to worry about work endorsement as PR entitles you to work.


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## jhen8305

thanks for fast reply...I was thinking instead of applying here for a resident permit can I apply from my my own country instead? I am originally from the Philippines..and Home Affairs gets me frustrated every time...for relative permit I waited for 12 months...and for permanent it's seems that I will be waiting for 24 months or so...so I am thinking to apply my PR to my home country...will they have a lesser time then??


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## Lisalouise

Thanks everyone! So to apply for a spousal visa with work endorsement do I fill out the BI-1738 and which do I tick? Is it the Relatives block? Sorry for stupid Q


----------



## Saartjie

jhen8305 said:


> thanks for fast reply...I was thinking instead of applying here for a resident permit can I apply from my my own country instead? I am originally from the Philippines..and Home Affairs gets me frustrated every time...for relative permit I waited for 12 months...and for permanent it's seems that I will be waiting for 24 months or so...so I am thinking to apply my PR to my home country...will they have a lesser time then??


I am not sure if it will be quicker. I asked the SA embassy in my home country (Sweden) if a PR application would be quicker through them. They said that it would probably take the same amount of time as all applications has to go via South Africa in any event. It may be different in other countries though...


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## jhen8305

oh i see if it would take that long then got no choice but to apply here.thanks..


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## Cueball

Lisalouise said:


> Thanks everyone! So to apply for a spousal visa with work endorsement do I fill out the BI-1738 and which do I tick? Is it the Relatives block? Sorry for stupid Q


I may be misreading things, but as far as I can see to apply for a spousal permit which can be endorsed for work you need to fill out form BI-84 and apply for a Visitor's Permit under 11(6) of the act. BI-1738 will get you a Temporary Residency: Relative under section 28, and is the one people have had problems with in the past.

Please can someone correct me if I'm wrong, as I'm going to the embassy in London on Friday to apply for exactly this, and it's impossible to speak to anyone there beforehand...


----------



## Lisalouise

Cueball said:


> I may be misreading things, but as far as I can see to apply for a spousal permit which can be endorsed for work you need to fill out form BI-84 and apply for a Visitor's Permit under 11(6) of the act. BI-1738 will get you a Temporary Residency: Relative under section 28, and is the one people have had problems with in the past.
> 
> Please can someone correct me if I'm wrong, as I'm going to the embassy in London on Friday to apply for exactly this, and it's impossible to speak to anyone there beforehand...


We just filled out the BI- 1738 and all was perfect. However my hubby already has a visitors visa as he is brazilian and can get one at the airport upon entry


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## Cueball

Lisalouise said:


> We just filled out the BI- 1738 and all was perfect. However my hubby already has a visitors visa as he is brazilian and can get one at the airport upon entry


Yeah - I'll delete the last post I made. Found some other guidelines that completely contradict the info on the UK embassy homepage but look like they're correct. What box did you tick in the end?


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## Saartjie

Cueball said:


> Yeah - I'll delete the last post I made. Found some other guidelines that completely contradict the info on the UK embassy homepage but look like they're correct. What box did you tick in the end?


Hi there. I am not sure if I have read your posts correctly but are you intending to apply for your permit from the UK? If so, are you aware that the embassy can only issue the Relatives Permit that cannot be endorsed for work. For some reason you can only be issued with a Spousal Permit (which can be endorsed) from within South Africa.


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## FellowJarman

Lisalouise said:


> We just filled out the BI- 1738 and all was perfect. However my hubby already has a visitors visa as he is brazilian and can get one at the airport upon entry



Hey Lisalouise, I'm also applying for a Spousal permit with work endorsement, I thought it was the BI-1740 you had to fill out! :S 
So its the BI-1738 form under what permit did you apply and what other documents did you take to Home Affairs?


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## Saartjie

FellowJarman said:


> Hey Lisalouise, I'm also applying for a Spousal permit with work endorsement, I thought it was the BI-1740 you had to fill out! :S
> So its the BI-1738 form under what permit did you apply and what other documents did you take to Home Affairs?


The BI-1740 is applicable if you already hold for example a Relatives Visa and you want to change this to a Spousal Visa. The form is for 'changing the conditions on existing permit'. You can also use this form to add your work endorsement or change your work endorsement. BI-1738 is for new applications (and for renewals I think).


----------



## FellowJarman

Saartjie said:


> The BI-1740 is applicable if you already hold for example a Relatives Visa and you want to change this to a Spousal Visa. The form is for 'changing the conditions on existing permit'. You can also use this form to add your work endorsement or change your work endorsement. BI-1738 is for new applications (and for renewals I think).


Oh ok so I would use the BI-1740 because I'm on a Relatives visa at the moment.
But which permit did you select on the form and what did you add for your work endorsement?


----------



## Saartjie

FellowJarman said:


> Oh ok so I would use the BI-1740 because I'm on a Relatives visa at the moment.
> But which permit did you select on the form and what did you add for your work endorsement?


Yes that is the form you should use. When I applied for my Spousal I was told to state on my form that I wanted a Section 11(6) Permit (the section refers to the Immigration Act) which is a Spousal Permit. For the work endorsement I just added my offer of employment, my signed employment contract and my employer also signed my form.


----------



## FellowJarman

Saartjie said:


> Yes that is the form you should use. When I applied for my Spousal I was told to state on my form that I wanted a Section 11(6) Permit (the section refers to the Immigration Act) which is a Spousal Permit. For the work endorsement I just added my offer of employment, my signed employment contract and my employer also signed my form.


Sorry for all the questions but where on the form do you state that you want a section 11(6) permit?


----------



## Cueball

Saartjie said:


> Hi there. I am not sure if I have read your posts correctly but are you intending to apply for your permit from the UK? If so, are you aware that the embassy can only issue the Relatives Permit that cannot be endorsed for work. For some reason you can only be issued with a Spousal Permit (which can be endorsed) from within South Africa.


I've heard this. I wish there was a good reason for it, but that would be expecting too much I suppose...


----------



## Saartjie

FellowJarman said:


> Sorry for all the questions but where on the form do you state that you want a section 11(6) permit?


On page 4 there is a box which says 'I hereby apply to change the conditions on my existing permit as follows:' In that box I wrote, 'Permit to be changed to Section 11(6) permit with work endorsement'.


----------



## Indian in SA

*Need advise...on work permit*



Joaschim said:


> Hi
> 
> You are correct, that the Spousal Permit issue has been dealt with a million times, but I am happy to respond, even it will be the one million and one'th time. Plus, your situation is a new example on this forum of what to expect from Home Affairs and its offices, but sadly one that happens more often than you might think.
> 
> Thank you Johanna for the endorsement!
> 
> Your case is a typical one when dealing with Home Affairs. No offices wants to do more work than they have to, so potential work is passed on.
> 
> The immigration legislation provides that your application shall be submitted in the area in which you reside or where your employer is located. This may change with the new legislation, but would not affect you.
> 
> But let us start at the top:
> 
> As a spouse to a South African, you may apply for a spousal permit (which you have). When you receive a job offer, one can add a work endorsement to that spousal permit. Only issue is that a completely new application will need to be submitted, along with the work endorsement papers.
> 
> Home Affairs currently claims to process applications within 30 days (reality is anything up to 6 months). However, there has been a court case in favour of spousal applicants that allowed them to start working after 30 days, should Home Affairs not provide a valid reason for the delay in issuing the permit.
> 
> The application should be submitted at the regional offices closest to you (or your employer).
> 
> Regarding Permanent Residency, this can be applied for now. You do not need to wait until you have the new temporary residency permit. Officially Home Affairs will take 6-12 months to process a Perm Res application. During this time you will need a valid temporary residency permit in order to live and work iin South Africa.
> 
> Hope this helps. If you have any more specific questions, please feel free to message me or post your comments here.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Joachim Schuckmann







Hi,

I have faced a similar problem i am Indian applied for a spouse permit as I married a south African but i also submitted documents which they required for me to work in the country as a freelancer . Needless to say i got my spouse permit 9 months later(after alot of calls and emails) but it didn't mention anything regarding working in the country .now its been a year i have been residing in the country but no employer is ready to hire me without a work permit .the home affairs asked me to get a tax no which i did but they say i need an employment letter to get a work permit so i feel so frustrated and stuck between the employers and home affairs.Please help or Advise .


----------



## FellowJarman

Saartjie said:


> Yes that is the form you should use. When I applied for my Spousal I was told to state on my form that I wanted a Section 11(6) Permit (the section refers to the Immigration Act) which is a Spousal Permit. For the work endorsement I just added my offer of employment, my signed employment contract and my employer also signed my form.


Thank you Saartjie!  A friend of mine who is also from the UK and living here with a SA spouse is currently on a work permit and needs to renew her visa. She now wants to apply for a spousal visa with work endorsement but under the same employer. Her salary has changed since she got the work permit. Must she send a new contract of employment and letter?


----------



## FellowJarman

Saartjie said:


> On page 4 there is a box which says 'I hereby apply to change the conditions on my existing permit as follows:' In that box I wrote, 'Permit to be changed to Section 11(6) permit with work endorsement'.


Also can you submit an abridged marriage certificate or do you need the unabidged one?


----------



## Saartjie

FellowJarman said:


> Thank you Saartjie!  A friend of mine who is also from the UK and living here with a SA spouse is currently on a work permit and needs to renew her visa. She now wants to apply for a spousal visa with work endorsement but under the same employer. Her salary has changed since she got the work permit. Must she send a new contract of employment and letter?


Hi there, if she is here on a work permit but wants to change to a spousal permit with a work endorsement then she should get at least a letter confirming her employment. Also remember that her employer must sign the form. Why is she changing her permit? Is the work permit about to expire? Otherwise I do not see the point of going through the hassle of changing permits as her current one allows her to work. If at all possible I would rather keep the work permit and wait until eligibility for PR kicks in and apply for that.


----------



## Saartjie

FellowJarman said:


> Also can you submit an abridged marriage certificate or do you need the unabidged one?


An abridged marriage certificate is usually fine. I have always used the abridged for all of my applications here without any problems at all. 

The only time I have been asked to supply an unabridged MC was when I was registering my daughter's birth in my home country.


----------



## Nostalgia Nut

Hi everyone. I need your help and advice on this problem please... I tried to send a private message to Joaschim but the forum says that no such user exists!?

I am presently on a quota work permit here in SA and my wife is here on an 'accompanying spouse' dependent visa which does not allow her to work.

She has been applying to jobs here for more than a year now and she is not having any luck whatsoever. I don't know if the companies are just not interested in sponsoring her visa or... they expect her to get a work permit first and then approach them???

But how does one get a work permit without a job offer??? Unfortunately she does not qualify for a quota work permit because her field is not in the official list of disciplines. She has an MBA in Finance & Marketing and has a SAQA score of 9 (which I believe is very good).

Is there a way she can get a work permit somehow? We are willing to pay any immigration consultant or agent if needed to. She is still applying to jobs online but it seems that companies don't want to even look at her resume if she doesn't already have a work permit!

Your advice is much appreciated.


----------



## FellowJarman

Saartjie said:


> Hi there, if she is here on a work permit but wants to change to a spousal permit with a work endorsement then she should get at least a letter confirming her employment. Also remember that her employer must sign the form. Why is she changing her permit? Is the work permit about to expire? Otherwise I do not see the point of going through the hassle of changing permits as her current one allows her to work. If at all possible I would rather keep the work permit and wait until eligibility for PR kicks in and apply for that.


Hi Saartjie, yes her work permit expires at the end of the year and was told that a spousal visa with work endorsement was much easier should she get a job elsewhere. :S


----------



## Saartjie

FellowJarman said:


> Hi Saartjie, yes her work permit expires at the end of the year and was told that a spousal visa with work endorsement was much easier should she get a job elsewhere. :S


Ah ok. Yes then the Spousal Permit should be the better option.


----------



## jhen8305

Nostalgia Nut said:


> Hi everyone. I need your help and advice on this problem please... I tried to send a private message to Joaschim but the forum says that no such user exists!?
> 
> I am presently on a quota work permit here in SA and my wife is here on an 'accompanying spouse' dependent visa which does not allow her to work.
> 
> She has been applying to jobs here for more than a year now and she is not having any luck whatsoever. I don't know if the companies are just not interested in sponsoring her visa or... they expect her to get a work permit first and then approach them???
> 
> But how does one get a work permit without a job offer??? Unfortunately she does not qualify for a quota work permit because her field is not in the official list of disciplines. She has an MBA in Finance & Marketing and has a SAQA score of 9 (which I believe is very good).
> 
> Is there a way she can get a work permit somehow? We are willing to pay any immigration consultant or agent if needed to. She is still applying to jobs online but it seems that companies don't want to even look at her resume if she doesn't already have a work permit!
> 
> Your advice is much appreciated.


same thing for me...about a year now i am looking for a job...i do have dependent permit or relative permit that allows me to stay...but sadly not allowed to work...in our case it's hard top look for a job for an employer most of them i think do not want to hire without a necessary permit or either to apply for it....
but for now I do have an employer in such wants to hire me...but do not want to bother to apply for my work permit...and now i am asking for the job offer....from that employer so i could apply for my work permit...

oh by the way you told that you are in a quota work permit...where can you find a list for scarce and critical skills for this year? I want to apply for a quota permit as for now that I have relative permit...


----------



## Cueball

Hi all - been manic here and no idea where the time goes. Thought I'd share my experience so far. I've been to the London embassy twice to apply for a spousal visa now. 

The first time I was told my wife needed to be with me, since she's the South African, and turned away because I didn't have some paperwork that they hadn't requested either (a letter of support).

The second time I shipped the whole family up on peak time trains only for her to remain seated behind me and not spoken to the whole time. Since I'm currently a self employed journalist, there was a lot of umming and ahing about whether or not I could get a work endorsement to start my own business as a spouse, without the usual commitment to employing 5 people and investing R2.5m in a new venture.

The long and short is that I was told the business would have to be registered in South Africa first, and that (as expected, from talking to people here) the only visa they will issue from London is a Relative's Temporary Permit. 

Again, as expected from talking to people here, the London staff swear blind that on arrival I can apply to DHA for a stamp without resubmitting new paperwork, and all will be well. In the end I gave up arguing the point that this wasn't going to happen...

That was last week, and things have changed a bit already in that I've been offered a job by a friend, doing what I do but working for him. That brings our move forward to October, but probably complicates things a bit - although I think that now I have the Relative's Permit on the way, I'll wait until we get to SA to change it. 

My understanding is that after 30 days of applying for the change in visa status I'll be able to work for him while the endorsement comes through. At least, since he's a friend, he'll be understanding about that and be prepared to take the risk.


----------



## AbiB

*Filling in form bi-1740*



Saartjie said:


> Yes that is the form you should use. When I applied for my Spousal I was told to state on my form that I wanted a Section 11(6) Permit (the section refers to the Immigration Act) which is a Spousal Permit. For the work endorsement I just added my offer of employment, my signed employment contract and my employer also signed my form.


Hi Saartjie,

I am also a brit married to a South African and have been on a relatives permit and have now been offered a job. I applied for permanent residence in January but they only received it at head office in may so God knows how long it will take. I am therefore now applying for a spousal permit with work endorsement.

When you filled in form Bi-1740, under which subsection were you then applying? Presumably not relative's? Is it visitor? I can't see spousal in the list of subsections. 

Also did you have to supply the SAQA certificate etc, or literally just the letter from your employer? 

Finally did your employer have to fill in all of part R and sign the part about repatriation etc? Surely that's not relevant in these cases because repatriating me would deprive my husband and son of their constitutional right to a family life. 

Many thanks,

Abi


----------



## AbiB

AlMassino said:


> I must say that using a lawyer is not better than doing things yourself. I used a lawyer since march 2011 until now and they did not do a good job. And i paid a lot. I applied for section 11(6) with serious prayer and fasting and it came out in less than a month. I got confirmation sms after a week and after 3 weeks the final collection sms. I had a relatives permit to reside with my wife we married for 4 years next month.


Hi AlMassino,
Can I ask where you applied for section 11(6)? 

Also which form did you use? bi-1740?

Many thanks,

Abi


----------



## concord

AbiB said:


> When you filled in form Bi-1740, under which subsection were you then applying?
> 
> Also did you have to supply the SAQA certificate etc, or literally just the letter from your employer?


 Hi, Abi.
I guess Saartije is in Norway on holiday now so she cant answer your questions. You should apply under section 11(6) which regulates spousal permits you apply for. And you dont have to provide your SAQA certificate, a letter from your employer will be enough (but I think your employer must sign the form as well).
Hope it helps.


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## claireduplessis

I have been informed that perm residencies are taking from 12-24 months (mine is now on month 13 ....).

FYI!


----------



## AbiB

*Attend with spouse*

Maybe I'm an idiot for not realising this but just in case it saves someone else any heartache it turns out that to apply for a spousal visa, your spouse must attend with you! 
I went to home affairs yesterday to check what I needed for my spousal visa application and they gave me a list of things. I then went again today's with everything I had been told to bring, waited in line for 2 hours with my son who was a bit agitated because we missed his nap and then at the desk they said where's your husband? 
I had no idea he had to come with! Obviously I had all his documents and his letter of support etc. I asked her to check all my other documents and she said they were fine. 
Luckily my husband was able to leave work and come and then the woman realised that my work letter was not right. My work had said they couldn't give me a contract without a visa and home affairs said I must bring the contract. 
So I'm going to see if my work can in fact produce a contract and try again tomorrow. Wish me luck!


----------



## concord

AbiB said:


> Maybe I'm an idiot for not realising this but just in case it saves someone else any heartache it turns out that to apply for a spousal visa, your spouse must attend with you!
> I went to home affairs yesterday to check what I needed for my spousal visa application and they gave me a list of things. I then went again today's with everything I had been told to bring, waited in line for 2 hours with my son who was a bit agitated because we missed his nap and then at the desk they said where's your husband?
> I had no idea he had to come with! Obviously I had all his documents and his letter of support etc. I asked her to check all my other documents and she said they were fine.
> Luckily my husband was able to leave work and come and then the woman realised that my work letter was not right. My work had said they couldn't give me a contract without a visa and home affairs said I must bring the contract.
> So I'm going to see if my work can in fact produce a contract and try again tomorrow. Wish me luck!


Good luck! In this case we all need it!


----------



## irishexpat

My employer gave me a contract including the term "conditional on you obtaining the required permit from Home Affairs". Be sure your prospective employer is not confused about the different visa requirements!

Not that it has done me any good, after a year and a half of being incredibly understanding my employer has given notice that if I don't have my permit within a couple of weeks, I'm out of a job.

And to top it all off, my wife, upon finding that Home Affairs had changed her surname, went in recently to alter the records to show that she wanted to keep her unmarried name. Fine, except that we have now discovered that as Home Affairs cannot capture a surname without an ID number on their marriage records, they changed the surname of the man she married too. So I can no longer prove that I'm him!

I feel like going to Pretoria and shooting people.


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## Nostalgia Nut

jhen8305 said:


> same thing for me...about a year now i am looking for a job...i do have dependent permit or relative permit that allows me to stay...but sadly not allowed to work...in our case it's hard top look for a job for an employer most of them i think do not want to hire without a necessary permit or either to apply for it....
> but for now I do have an employer in such wants to hire me...but do not want to bother to apply for my work permit...and now i am asking for the job offer....from that employer so i could apply for my work permit...
> 
> oh by the way you told that you are in a quota work permit...where can you find a list for scarce and critical skills for this year? I want to apply for a quota permit as for now that I have relative permit...


Thanks for your response. And sorry for this late reply. I just saw that you have a question for me. I'm not exactly sure where to find the list of scarce skills. Have you tried googling? I'm pretty sure I found it on the internet.


----------



## dzohni

*advice?*

Hello Saartje, 
I found the thread you started regarding the work endorsement. It's been a while now, so I would presume you obtained. That's why I'd like to ask for your advise, as I'm in a similar position.
I'm married to a south african, but not long enough to obtain a permanent residence. so what I have now is a temporary relative's permit, and when i called home affairs, they told me i need a work endorsement.

Could you enlighten me with your experience? I obtained the temp permit from my country, but from what i understood, i'll have to submit a new application with all the documents?
i had done all these documents in my country, where it was relatively easy, but i'm completely clueless as to how to get them here. how is the police clearance made? 
what about the medical reports?

how much did it cost? every time i call they tell me a different fee!
and finally, how long did it take to be issued?
Thank you very much!


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## dzohni

I would really like some advice regarding my situation, it's incredibly frustrating!

My husband is south african, but he was born and raised in egypt, where we met. we had been been boyfriend-girlfriend for 10 years when we got married, which almost 2 years ago. so in total, we've been in a serious relationship for almost 12 years. and now we are living in sa.
so technically, i should be eligible for a permanent residence!
but here's the catch! we're married under 5 years, so i can't apply for a spousal PR, and i can't apply for life partner either, because in my country you're not allowed to live with your partner unless you're married nor it's customary to have shared property! grrrrrr
is there seriously nothing i can do to prove we've been together this long other than those documents????


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## JohnPier

This was similar to my challenge in getting to South Africa, but I found my answers in a book on the ImmigrationSouthAfrica.org website. My wife and I both work now in Cape Town. It wasn't all easy - Home Affairs is a real problem, but we managed to do it without paying anyone.

The main thing is to make sure the company employing you understands what is going on. My wife had to wait months for her endorsement, and the company got really tough on her, but after some stressful times, in the end it came through ok.


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## Cueball

@John
If you don't mind me asking, was your wife working the whole time she was waiting for the permit or did she wait until the permit came though to start?

(Don't worry - not an undercover SARS agent...)


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## JohnPier

Ha ha, not a SARS agent... I got a consulting job at a company and we were thinking of an accompanying spouse permit for her. But then she got an offer too, so she went with that. But she also works over the Internet, so in a sense yes, she was. It's all in the book I bought, it's like the immigration bible. I got it here: immigrationsouthafrica.org/immigrate-to-south-africa-easily

I must say that although we are happy here, our jobs are not the perfect ones we wanted, but definitely good enough and we'll find better ones later on.


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## SusanL

Hi everyone! 
Does anyone know how to NOT end up with a Relative's Visa? I have read the Immigration Act of 2002, as it states that when on the Relative's Visa, one cannot work. However, it seems that you have to apply for a Relative's Visa as there is no specific Life Partner Permit / Spouse Visa to choose on any of the forms. 
(Background - I want / am applying for a Life Partner Permit - I qualify for Permanent Resident but due to time restraints am going to Temp way first). I am not including a work contract with my application, but will have a look at a job when we get to South Africa.
At the moment i'm thinking it's luck of the draw with HA!
Thanks for your help!


----------



## concord

Hi, Susan! I bet if you dont include a job offer in your application you'll end up with a relative's visa anyway. On the forum we had that discussion earlier and there was an opinion that HA simply dont issue spousal/LP permits without a work endorsement. And again to get a work endorsement you have to submit a job offer and a contract.


----------



## Damiana

I submitted my application for a business endorsement to a pre-existing spousal permit yesterday. The application was accepted by a Home Affairs official who seemed very competent and to know what she was doing so I assume in theory that the process I’ve followed is correct, even though I don’t yet know if the application has been successful.

The key point I want to make is that immigration consultants will tell you that the application for work/ business endorsements to existing spousal permits is much more complicated than it is – and quote cR7000 for doing the application for you. I chose to spend 2 hours in the Home Affairs queue and managed to submit my application no problem.

I’d been told by two immigration firms (including Intergate) that despite the fact I’d already got my spousal permit (in September from the SA Consulate in London – very efficient) I would have to re-do the entire temporary residence permit application – so all the hassle of re-submitting chest x-ray, criminal record check, etc. – and this time include the request for the business endorsement (in my case to work as a sole proprietor). When I pressed the immigration firms on this they admitted that I ‘may have a chance’ of getting a business endorsement without re-doing the temporary resident permit application.

So yesterday, I took to the Home Affairs office in Cape Town the following documents:
•	Business plan for sole proprietor business (one page outlining my skills and the type of work I would seek to do as a consultant)
•	Curriculum vitae
•	SARS registration form (very easy to get – just pop into your nearest SARS office to register as a SA taxpayer)
•	Letter of endorsement from prospective client (I don’t think I needed this but thought it might be helpful)
•	Certified copy of my passport
•	Certified copy of relative’s permit in my passport
•	Certified copy of husband’s ID book
•	Certified copy of marriage certificate
•	Letter of motivation from husband (again, I don’t think I needed this but I wanted to prove we were still married!)

When I told the official what I wanted to do she asked if I had my ‘business papers’ (yes, see 1-3 above) and if I’d filled out the form, at which point my heart sank. Then she came back with the form and it was the simplest 3-page thing. It’s BI-1740 Form 9 ‘Application for a change of condition on existing permit’. You just fill in your details and say what condition you want to change – so in my case that I wanted to get a business endorsement so that I could work – and why. It took me 3 minutes to complete and then the official accepted my application.

So I feel quite cross with the big immigration consultants who only told me half the story in order to try to get my business. I’d be really wary of this. These processes aren’t half as complicated as you’ll be told. They may be a bit fiddly and spending two hours at Home Affairs isn’t a whole load of fun, but the irony is, if I’d done this through an immigration firm they’d have not only left me R7000 poorer but also caused me a whole load of extra hassle by telling me to go and get new chest x-rays, medical certificates, etc. that it turned out I didn’t need.

However, one thing I would emphasise is that my spousal permit is only two months old. If it had been older than 6 months I don’t know whether they would have required a whole re-submission of the temporary resident permit application. But you can find that out easily enough by ringing or visiting Home Affairs.

The fact of the matter is though that although we have to seek permission to work, spouses in SA are treated as if they have the right to work (hence why we don’t have to submit all the endless documentation that other work/ business visa applicants require), so the sense I get is that the process is on our side.

Two other things that I’d like to correct that I’ve seen on various blogs:

-	You CAN get a business endorsement on a relative’s permit, as mine is called a relative’s permit not a spouse’s permit even though in the small print beneath it says it’s for the purpose of living with my spouse.

-	You CAN get a business endorsement to work as a sole proprietor, and you do NOT have to register your business. You just have to register with SARS, as you will pay tax as an individual. I’ve been told though that this route is harder to go if you’re applying overseas – e.g. that the London consulate require you to be a PTY – but this could be more inaccurate advice; I don’t know because I applied in Cape Town.

I’m posting this in the hope that I will de-mystify the process for other spouses/ life partners out there, save you some money and encourage you to be wary of the ‘information’ you will receive from immigration firms.


----------



## Jujube

Hi Damiana,
very interesting - thanks for sharing.

I was wondering if you were going for the business endorsement on top of your current employer contract?
See I'm currently employed (spousal with work permit) but I'd like to be able to do some freelance job on the side (as a sole trader), Do you know if you can be both in the eyes of Home Affairs or you have to select one?

Also, if I recall well in the case of a sole trader, no more than 80% of your revenue should come from the same company..


----------



## Damiana

Sorry Jujube, I don't know the answers to your questions as I'm not already employed in SA, I'm just trying to set up as a sole trader.


----------



## Damiana

*Update on my case*



Damiana said:


> I submitted my application for a business endorsement to a pre-existing spousal permit yesterday. The application was accepted by a Home Affairs official who seemed very competent and to know what she was doing so I assume in theory that the process I’ve followed is correct, even though I don’t yet know if the application has been successful.
> 
> The key point I want to make is that immigration consultants will tell you that the application for work/ business endorsements to existing spousal permits is much more complicated than it is – and quote cR7000 for doing the application for you. I chose to spend 2 hours in the Home Affairs queue and managed to submit my application no problem.
> 
> I’d been told by two immigration firms (including Intergate) that despite the fact I’d already got my spousal permit (in September from the SA Consulate in London – very efficient) I would have to re-do the entire temporary residence permit application – so all the hassle of re-submitting chest x-ray, criminal record check, etc. – and this time include the request for the business endorsement (in my case to work as a sole proprietor). When I pressed the immigration firms on this they admitted that I ‘may have a chance’ of getting a business endorsement without re-doing the temporary resident permit application.
> 
> So yesterday, I took to the Home Affairs office in Cape Town the following documents:
> •	Business plan for sole proprietor business (one page outlining my skills and the type of work I would seek to do as a consultant)
> •	Curriculum vitae
> •	SARS registration form (very easy to get – just pop into your nearest SARS office to register as a SA taxpayer)
> •	Letter of endorsement from prospective client (I don’t think I needed this but thought it might be helpful)
> •	Certified copy of my passport
> •	Certified copy of relative’s permit in my passport
> •	Certified copy of husband’s ID book
> •	Certified copy of marriage certificate
> •	Letter of motivation from husband (again, I don’t think I needed this but I wanted to prove we were still married!)
> 
> When I told the official what I wanted to do she asked if I had my ‘business papers’ (yes, see 1-3 above) and if I’d filled out the form, at which point my heart sank. Then she came back with the form and it was the simplest 3-page thing. It’s BI-1740 Form 9 ‘Application for a change of condition on existing permit’. You just fill in your details and say what condition you want to change – so in my case that I wanted to get a business endorsement so that I could work – and why. It took me 3 minutes to complete and then the official accepted my application.
> 
> So I feel quite cross with the big immigration consultants who only told me half the story in order to try to get my business. I’d be really wary of this. These processes aren’t half as complicated as you’ll be told. They may be a bit fiddly and spending two hours at Home Affairs isn’t a whole load of fun, but the irony is, if I’d done this through an immigration firm they’d have not only left me R7000 poorer but also caused me a whole load of extra hassle by telling me to go and get new chest x-rays, medical certificates, etc. that it turned out I didn’t need.
> 
> However, one thing I would emphasise is that my spousal permit is only two months old. If it had been older than 6 months I don’t know whether they would have required a whole re-submission of the temporary resident permit application. But you can find that out easily enough by ringing or visiting Home Affairs.
> 
> The fact of the matter is though that although we have to seek permission to work, spouses in SA are treated as if they have the right to work (hence why we don’t have to submit all the endless documentation that other work/ business visa applicants require), so the sense I get is that the process is on our side.
> 
> Two other things that I’d like to correct that I’ve seen on various blogs:
> 
> -	You CAN get a business endorsement on a relative’s permit, as mine is called a relative’s permit not a spouse’s permit even though in the small print beneath it says it’s for the purpose of living with my spouse.
> 
> -	You CAN get a business endorsement to work as a sole proprietor, and you do NOT have to register your business. You just have to register with SARS, as you will pay tax as an individual. I’ve been told though that this route is harder to go if you’re applying overseas – e.g. that the London consulate require you to be a PTY – but this could be more inaccurate advice; I don’t know because I applied in Cape Town.
> 
> I’m posting this in the hope that I will de-mystify the process for other spouses/ life partners out there, save you some money and encourage you to be wary of the ‘information’ you will receive from immigration firms.


I said I'd come back and update you on my application for a business permit (on existing spousal temporary residence permit), and am pleased to say that I picked it up from Cape Town Home Affairs today (it was actually ready before Christmas). I'm delighted, but also a little cross with the two major immigration firms who told me that I wouldn't be able to get this permit using the route explained in my original email above and would have to do a complete resubmission of my application for a spousal permit - at a cost of R7200 should I wish to use their services.

I am sure there is a lot of expertise in those immigration firms, but there is no incentive for them to give you a full picture if it could be much simpler and cheaper for you not to use them - so beware!

The only cost to me has been four hours at Home Affairs but I now have permission to run my own business in SA for two years.


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## Jithu John

*change of employer*

Hi Joachinm, 
I was going through this thread and i see myself in the same situation. Is it by anyway possible to get a link or anything to the court order saying that you can work after 30 days of submitting application. I applied for this permit in 2011 august and i got it in 2012 june (10 months). Now i want to change the employer and I am worried about the Home affairs processing time. 

Please help.
Jithu John



Joaschim said:


> Hi
> 
> You are correct, that the Spousal Permit issue has been dealt with a million times, but I am happy to respond, even it will be the one million and one'th time. Plus, your situation is a new example on this forum of what to expect from Home Affairs and its offices, but sadly one that happens more often than you might think.
> 
> Thank you Johanna for the endorsement!
> 
> Your case is a typical one when dealing with Home Affairs. No offices wants to do more work than they have to, so potential work is passed on.
> 
> The immigration legislation provides that your application shall be submitted in the area in which you reside or where your employer is located. This may change with the new legislation, but would not affect you.
> 
> But let us start at the top:
> 
> As a spouse to a South African, you may apply for a spousal permit (which you have). When you receive a job offer, one can add a work endorsement to that spousal permit. Only issue is that a completely new application will need to be submitted, along with the work endorsement papers.
> 
> Home Affairs currently claims to process applications within 30 days (reality is anything up to 6 months). However, there has been a court case in favour of spousal applicants that allowed them to start working after 30 days, should Home Affairs not provide a valid reason for the delay in issuing the permit.
> 
> The application should be submitted at the regional offices closest to you (or your employer).
> 
> Regarding Permanent Residency, this can be applied for now. You do not need to wait until you have the new temporary residency permit. Officially Home Affairs will take 6-12 months to process a Perm Res application. During this time you will need a valid temporary residency permit in order to live and work iin South Africa.
> 
> Hope this helps. If you have any more specific questions, please feel free to message me or post your comments here.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Joachim Schuckmann


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## LegalMan

Hi Jithu John

It is not possible to get such a court order. I have discussed this issue on other threads on this forum, and it remains one of the biggest problems that Home Affairs faces. In fact, it is the reason that Home Affairs had over R50million in legal fees in 2011.

Many people do not wait, they just start working. Of course Home Affairs doesn't come around and check, but legally they are not allowed to start working.

Many people go home to their country and apply there, since the waiting time is much shorter.

The waiting time also depends on which permit you currently have.


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## YAM

*Business Endorsement?!*



Joaschim said:


> Hi Tim
> 
> In your case I would advise adding a *Business Endorsement* to the Spousal Permit. This will allow you to operate your own business.
> 
> Adding the Business Endorsement is slightly more complicated than the work endorsement, as there are more logistical and legal things to take into consideration when running a businesses.
> 
> For an application form used in South Africa is a different on than used when applying at the SA embassies, yes, as you would now be applying for a change of condition on your current permit.
> 
> Trust this answers your questions for now.


Hi, I've just been informed that I need a business endorsement on my temp spousal residency visa to work as a freelance fitness professional. I've been searching on HA website but can't find specific details on requirements needed to apply for this - can anyone help? 
thanks so much


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## LegalMan

Hi YAM

You can simply search for any immigration lawyer online and phone them and ask them. Fo course if you wish them to assist in obtaining the permit, you will pay them for these applications services. But most of them will give you free advice.

Good luck!


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## rooineckrsa

Hi Saartjie

Have been living in S.A for more than 12 months? As HA require a police clearance for 12 months in the last country you lived. Perhaps a SAPS clearance can be issued. only thinking

mark


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## LegalMan

Hi Mark

SAPS is the police, so it's the same clearance (?)


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## MissGlobal

I just want to throw this out there - the Western Cape Home Affairs ( in cape town - not Bellville ) is known to be much more responsive than the other ones. I can't promise that this will help but it might be worth trying a call to them. I've had actually 3 good experiences there ( and I never thought I'd live to say that! ) . I don't know if they will say they can't help you because you aren't in cape town - but you might get a more reasonable person on the phone......


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## jamesjones

Does Anyone know if you can work beyond the 20 hours a week if it is voluntary in terms of a study Visa?

Many thanks =)


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## jamesjones

Anyone know if you can work beyond the 20 hours a week if it is voluntary in terms of a study Visa?

Many thanks =)


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## LegalMan

jamesjones said:


> Anyone know if you can work beyond the 20 hours a week if it is voluntary in terms of a study Visa?
> 
> Many thanks =)


No, you may not work more than 20 hours on a Study Visa.


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## JHinSA

*Work Endorsement - work after 30 days?*



Joaschim said:


> Hi
> 
> Home Affairs currently claims to process applications within 30 days (reality is anything up to 6 months). However, there has been a court case in favour of spousal applicants that allowed them to start working after 30 days, should Home Affairs not provide a valid reason for the delay in issuing the permit.


Hi Joachim, 

Thank you for all of your valuable advise on this forum. My application for a work endorsement went relatively smoothly through VFS since I applied on August 8th. At the time I was told it should take 4 - 6 weeks for it to come through. I am now almost through 6 weeks so called VFS today and they claim that it is now going to be at least 8 weeks. I came across this post again and saw your note about being able to work after 30 days time. Is this still the case? If so, would you be able to point me to more information about this case so that I could show it to my employer and begin working? 

Thank you again for your help and insights.

Josh


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## mieghol

*Work endorsement under new rules*

Hi all,

Have a question about getting a work endorsement under the new immigration rules.

I got a temporary spousal visa in July 2014 which got activated in Sept. I am looking to get my visa changed so I can work on it. Under the new rules introduced earlier in the year, can I still get it amended using form B1740, section O and the part with the company details? I assume the job offer/contract in writing and (copies) of my passport and visa are required as well.

Thanks,
Michiel


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## LegalMan

mieghol said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Have a question about getting a work endorsement under the new immigration rules.
> 
> I got a temporary spousal visa in July 2014 which got activated in Sept. I am looking to get my visa changed so I can work on it. Under the new rules introduced earlier in the year, can I still get it amended using form B1740, section O and the part with the company details? I assume the job offer/contract in writing and (copies) of my passport and visa are required as well.
> 
> Thanks,
> Michiel


The permanent employment contract is absolutely essential.


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## Scotty85

*Changing Employment*

Hi guys,

I hope someone can help! I am on a 3year spousal visa with a work endorsement.
How can i go about changing my employer on my visa? I have been told 100 different things and just need a more solid answer so i can move forward and start the process. 

Many thanks x


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## LegalMan

Scotty85 said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> I hope someone can help! I am on a 3year spousal visa with a work endorsement.
> How can i go about changing my employer on my visa? I have been told 100 different things and just need a more solid answer so i can move forward and start the process.
> 
> Many thanks x


Hi Scotty85, 

You would definitely need to reapply for a brand new section 11(6) through VFS. You would need to provide all new documentation again, including the new employment contract. You wouldn't have to supply a new police clearance from your home country though. A copy would suffice.


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## Scotty85

Thank you for your response legal man..Ouch! That process took me nearly 1 and a half years to accomplish. I also heard that it would be a case of going to HA with a resignation letter and an employment offer to have the endorsement changed...It seems ridiculous to have to go through the entire process again when the work part is just an endorsement on my spousal visa!.


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## Diana Miguel

Joaschim said:


> Hi Tim
> 
> In your case I would advise adding a *Business Endorsement* to the Spousal Permit. This will allow you to operate your own business.
> 
> Adding the Business Endorsement is slightly more complicated than the work endorsement, as there are more logistical and legal things to take into consideration when running a businesses.
> 
> For an application form used in South Africa is a different on than used when applying at the SA embassies, yes, as you would now be applying for a change of condition on your current permit.
> 
> Trust this answers your questions for now.


Hello, Joaschim!

I'm hoping you can provide some guidance for my situation and hopefully this helps other people dealing with the same.

I'm preparing to apply for a change in conditions from a regular study visa to a visitors visa Section 11(6) with a business endorsement.

I have two big questions that are keeping me from applying, even though my deadline is April 30 (60 days before my current visa expires).

1. If the company I currently work for half time as a writer (and that is offering me a full time job) agrees, would I be allowed to continue to work for them as an external consultant (my company supplying their company with "writing consultancy") with this new type of visa? If this is allowed, could I also do additional freelance work (My salary isn't great so this would very likely be a necessity in the future)?

2. Is there a specific type of company I need to be registered as to apply for this endorsement? Before I got married, my then boyfriend and I registered a company with the CIPC to import liquor. We both are registered as directors. I keep reading about people registering as sole proprietors for the business endorsement and just want to make sure my existing business would qualify for this endorsement too.

Sorry for the incredibly long message. I will be eternally grateful if you (or anyone else) can help.


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